# Spaniel Update



## Clodagh (29 April 2018)

It was spanner's fifth month birthday last weekend and she met up with the family at Hatfield Forest. She is very poorly socialised, entirely my fault, so was completely overwhelmed by shrieking children on pushbikes and googly eyed at so many dogs. Once we got over the initial panic attack and got away from the carpark she cheered up nicely. 
So in this pic it is both Grannies and Grandpa and Dad far left, then Mum (liver and white in middle) then around her some of the litter mates. Ours is far right - pretending to be obedient!!


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## Clodagh (29 April 2018)

I still say I would never have another one, but in many ways she is a dear little thing. Very trainable, affectionate and keen to please, just so blinking fast! And obsessed. Very obsessed.
We do now walk her, but only on her own and it is more what I would call a training session than a walk. You do not relax, or take your eyes off her for a second. You carry a ball so she can see it and the whistle is always in your mouth! This is all helping and it is interesting to see that she naturally works a pattern and keeps checking up on you. 
We have had to compromise on how we keep her compared to the other dogs, so she is kennelled while we walk the others or when we are both out. At night she sleeps in a cage and in the evening when we go through the front of the house she stays in the back. Her bladder just cannot be trusted! She is not alone as old lab chooses to stay through the back as well.
I think it will be fun when we get to working her, but as that won't be until next September ('19) we have a way to go yet. I like training dogs generally and now that I can see some results I don't feel quite so overwhelmed by her.


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## JennBags (29 April 2018)

How lovely. Very interesting that an experienced dog owner can find a different breed so tricky.


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## Clodagh (29 April 2018)

JennBags said:



			How lovely. Very interesting that an experienced dog owner can find a different breed so tricky.
		
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JB - she is so different to anything else I have had. When young we had setters and labs, then when I moved to Australia dobes, blue heelers and kelpies, than back to UK and terriers (patterdales, JRTs and borders) and now labradors again. She is so unlike any of those. I would not have believed how much harder she is - stick to collies, I always found anything collieish a delight to train, as are labs.


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## Fools Motto (29 April 2018)

I do love hearing about how you are getting on, and so many similarities with what you are doing and what I've done!!


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## Clodagh (29 April 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			I do love hearing about how you are getting on, and so many similarities with what you are doing and what I've done!!
		
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I always think of you!! How patronising I was when you had spaniel problems...never, ever again!!


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## BBP (29 April 2018)

I took my collie pup for a walk yesterday with a working springer spaniel (I think springer, not a spaniel expert!) and he and I were both a bit bamboozled by her, she just didnt stop moving! Little collie would follow her out after her ball and then just lie and watch her whilst she worked her way manically in hunt of the ball. Then he would run back with her. Hes pretty chilled as collies go though. 

As above though, I like hearing experienced dog owners having challenges with new breeds, it makes me feel less useless when my presents a new challenge for me to figure out (yapping when I go upstairs and bouncing on the cats).


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## Clodagh (29 April 2018)

I have been thinking, and to be fair to spaniels, my goalposts have moved since I had gundogs. Before the current labs, as long as my dog had good recall and could sit, stay and heel, that was all I needed. If the working terriers or the lurcher bogged off after a rabbit it didn't matter. Now I am a lot more controlling and expect a lot more so it is harder. And whereas the labs just pick it all up as they go along the spanner seems to need repetition, repetition, repetition.


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## Thistle (29 April 2018)

My only reply 'I did warn you!'

I think my advice at the time was to buy a good well fitting hat, it would prevent you from pulling your hair out. That said I'm pleased with Beans Springer today, he wasn't too badly behaved in the scurries at E Anglian Game fair today.


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## Cinnamontoast (29 April 2018)

Depends on the lines, some are &#8216;hotter&#8217; than others. My two workers were/are a piece of cake, although Brig has always been unable to go off around sheep, not that I&#8217;d let him anyway, obviously. Both youngsters are similar and were lost that time due to peeing off to chase a muntjac. 

Brig and Bear have never been any bother, Zak is a whole different package! My neighbour keeps telling me they all have different personalities, she is so right. They adore her and she adores them. Brig and Zak rolling round ecstatically when she came round yesterday.


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## rara007 (29 April 2018)

Clodagh said:



			We do now walk her, but only on her own and it is more what I would call a training session than a walk. You do not relax, or take your eyes off her for a second. You carry a ball so she can see it and the whistle is always in your mouth!
		
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Yup! This, every time!

 I too am enjoying following your progress


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## Moobli (1 May 2018)

Brilliant photo Clodagh and so nice to see them all together like that.  I did once upon a time consider a working springer spaniel as companion to my GSD (as she seemed to like the breed) but not sure I could have coped with the detachment from handler/self rewarding hunting behaviour.  They are lovely dogs though.  Very much enjoying reading about your experiences.


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## Clodagh (13 May 2018)

Here she is today. She loves learning and doing things but boy you have to be on the ball - almost literally! She is now kennelled overnight as was getting dirtier and dirtier in her cage and I need my sleep. As she gets more hunting driven she no longer has time to wee or poo before bed, so when a girls gotta go. I have never had a dog dirty in the crate before. The kennel is a Godsend as we all start the day in a happy mood.  Come winter we will decide whether she can come back in at night. (I am a soft touch).


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## Fools Motto (13 May 2018)

I remember saying ''I've never known a dog who couldn't care if she was clean or dirty'' before!!  I'm glad the kennel is working, and the day starts off well. She is a very good looking little thing. x


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## PapaverFollis (13 May 2018)

Oh, she's beautiful though!

I think I might have been lucky with my spangle, he isn't easy easy but he rates biscuits and tennis balls higher than self employed hunting so has been ok to train (But he's just a pet too so never had to encourage hunting, which probably helped him not get into it).


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## Cinnamontoast (13 May 2018)

Dirty in her crate? Our lot have a key word to toilet and we used to accompany them into the garden, don&#8217;t know if that would help. They decided against the crate at under a year but weren&#8217;t dirty in there. Could you teach her a key word? Or have her indoors without a crate? Lots of people have spoken to me about using a bell. Our back door is constantly open if it&#8217;s not freezing.

Sometimes they don&#8217;t have time to toilet when on a walk as walks are all about training and they&#8217;re either waiting for or doing a retrieve.


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## Clodagh (13 May 2018)

PapaverFollis said:



			Oh, she's beautiful though!

I think I might have been lucky with my spangle, he isn't easy easy but he rates biscuits and tennis balls higher than self employed hunting so has been ok to train (But he's just a pet too so never had to encourage hunting, which probably helped him not get into it).
		
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Trouble is she is only allowed to hunt when working, which she can't do yet, so it is all about stopping hunting. So she self rewards in the garden. More fun to hunt sparrows than to poo!


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## Clodagh (13 May 2018)

cinnamontoast said:



			Dirty in her crate? Our lot have a key word to toilet and we used to accompany them into the garden, don&#8217;t know if that would help. They decided against the crate at under a year but weren&#8217;t dirty in there. Could you teach her a key word? Or have her indoors without a crate? Lots of people have spoken to me about using a bell. Our back door is constantly open if it&#8217;s not freezing.

Sometimes they don&#8217;t have time to toilet when on a walk as walks are all about training and they&#8217;re either waiting for or doing a retrieve.
		
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She does wee on command, but won't finish as she has to go and look for sparrows. She is clean during the day now, unless excited. We can't give her free rein of the garden all the time as she would hunt until she collapsed. It is just easier for now to have her sleeping outside, as coming down every morning to a ****** bed and a ****** dog lying in it was not good. Although I didn't ever tell her off she knew I was grumpy and no one felt the love.


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## Clodagh (6 June 2018)

I'm not sure if anyone is interested but she is growing into a really nice little dog. She has an invisible line about 15m away (I am sure that is too far, but at least it is there) and runs like a rabbit on speed within that circle. If she goes over that line you just need to say 'not too far' and she comes right back to your feet. I still carry the ball but rarely throw it - it is also too hot to run through long grass unable to pant, IMO. 
I need to press on with the stop whistle, as she has been so good I have got a bit complacent with it. Off to have a go now.


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## Abi90 (6 June 2018)

I must have got really lucky with Boots. He has always been really easy, although I nearly put him in a pie at the 6-8 month point. He happily sleeps all day and is only on when out walking. My only issue with him is he does go quite far from me which unsettled me at first but he always comes back on command and this way is the best thing we have taught him as I can adjust his course with it, hes also somehow picked up hand signals for direction which is useful.

Rescue pup is proving more interesting to train. Boots was always eager to please and wanted to learn, Tommy is a bit uninterested. Not sure if its because hes a rescue or because of whatever breed hes crossed with. Fortunately hes much more placid and generally less boisterous, he has picked up crate and this way already though.


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## Clodagh (6 June 2018)

Abi90, She is no trouble at all in the house but as she is not allowed to free hunt walks are not relaxing! She is nearly 7 months now and has actually got loads easier recently.


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## Clodagh (6 June 2018)

She likes the picnic bench in the garden. And loves Mr Puffin. Her stop is really good if she is just bumbling, but if she is going full pelt she will recall instead of sitting, so we are stepping back to 'closer to me' lessons. Thistle suggested holding something up for her to see when I blow the stop whistle, which is where Mr Puffin earns his keep.


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## Lintel (6 June 2018)

Clodagh said:









She likes the picnic bench in the garden. And loves Mr Puffin. Her stop is really good if she is just bumbling, but if she is going full pelt she will recall instead of sitting, so we are stepping back to 'closer to me' lessons. Thistle suggested holding something up for her to see when I blow the stop whistle, which is where Mr Puffin earns his keep.
		
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Aw, she looks like butter wouldn't melt!


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## Apercrumbie (6 June 2018)

Gorgeous! Glad to hear she's getting easier too - it's actually quite strange having another kind of dog after a spaniel (we're now back to terriers) and I really do miss them terribly. Bonkers but gorgeous dogs.


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## Clodagh (6 June 2018)

apercrumbie said:



			Gorgeous! Glad to hear she's getting easier too - it's actually quite strange having another kind of dog after a spaniel (we're now back to terriers) and I really do miss them terribly. Bonkers but gorgeous dogs.
		
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I think half the trouble is we haven't had one before and they are very different. Terriers are probably easier!! I wouldn't have another, if I need another dogging in dog in the future I will go collie. She is sweet though and very keen to please - more so than any terrier!


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## druid (6 June 2018)

Clodagh said:



			I think half the trouble is we haven't had one before and they are very different. Terriers are probably easier!! I wouldn't have another, if I need another dogging in dog in the future I will go collie. She is sweet though and very keen to please - more so than any terrier!
		
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They are marmite dogs - I love mine and despite looking after a friend's kennel of FTCh labs occasionally I wouldn't have one, I like my sproinging spaniel muppets


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## JennBags (6 June 2018)

She's very beautiful!


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## Apercrumbie (6 June 2018)

Clodagh said:



			I think half the trouble is we haven't had one before and they are very different. Terriers are probably easier!! I wouldn't have another, if I need another dogging in dog in the future I will go collie. She is sweet though and very keen to please - more so than any terrier!
		
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Well the being keen to please is the problem with our terrier pup - she just isn't! She's such a character and I think she'll be a cracking dog in a few years, but I've never met such an independently minded and wilful dog. The polar opposite of our spaniel who was needy to a fault. Both gorgeous in their own ways.


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## CorvusCorax (6 June 2018)

Not a spangle owner as you know lol, but welcome to the world of a dog who is 'always on'!
I read your post and smiled as it sounds tough, but fun.
For the best dogs, you adapt.
Not a popular opinion but a lot of good working dogs make rubbish pets. The price you pay for drive. 

They do settle eventually. Mine was about 3 before I could trust him to lie down (and not destroy things) in the house unsupervised.
But when other people's dogs were too hot, too tired, couldn't be bothered, my boy always came out wanting to work...any time, any place, anywhere, unstoppable.
Wouldn't swap that for anything and I doubt I'll ever find a dog like him again. Very few people *want* dogs like that.


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## PapaverFollis (7 June 2018)

Clodagh said:



			I'm not sure if anyone is interested but she is growing into a really nice little dog. She has an invisible line about 15m away (I am sure that is too far, but at least it is there) and runs like a rabbit on speed within that circle. If she goes over that line you just need to say 'not too far' and she comes right back to your feet. I still carry the ball but rarely throw it - it is also too hot to run through long grass unable to pant, IMO. 
I need to press on with the stop whistle, as she has been so good I have got a bit complacent with it. Off to have a go now. 

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I'm interested! I'm glad she's going well. It is interesting for me to read about training a proper spaniel after having a working bred one as a pet. The invisible line thing, does that come naturally to some of them? I always thought mine was like he was on an invisible 15m ish lead at that age (unless there was water to play in further away). He's got a bit more distance as he's got older but 99% of the time he's in sight and he's usually close... I've encouraged that with training though as I call them back if they go out of sight.


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## Abi90 (7 June 2018)

PapaverFollis said:



			I'm interested! I'm glad she's going well. It is interesting for me to read about training a proper spaniel after having a working bred one as a pet. The invisible line thing, does that come naturally to some of them? I always thought mine was like he was on an invisible 15m ish lead at that age (unless there was water to play in further away). He's got a bit more distance as he's got older but 99% of the time he's in sight and he's usually close... I've encouraged that with training though as I call them back if they go out of sight.
		
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Mine is the same, although he does have an initial freedom run he only goes about 15 metres away. Although his long training lead was 15m long so not sure if that distance is just what hes familiar with? He sometimes goes a bit further now hes older but never out of site, if he does accidentally in the woods or something he runs back to check youre still there


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## Karran (7 June 2018)

PapaverFollis said:



			I'm interested! I'm glad she's going well. It is interesting for me to read about training a proper spaniel after having a working bred one as a pet. The invisible line thing, does that come naturally to some of them? I always thought mine was like he was on an invisible 15m ish lead at that age (unless there was water to play in further away). He's got a bit more distance as he's got older but 99% of the time he's in sight and he's usually close... I've encouraged that with training though as I call them back if they go out of sight.
		
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Interested too! Mrs Spaniel is as you know a pet, I have no idea of her breeding but she also has an invisible line. I just assumed its cos she's a clingy little brat!


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## blackcob (7 June 2018)

Referring back to CC's comment, take it from someone whose dogs were always 'on' but are now hurtling towards retirement - enjoy it! There were times where it felt like a chore (5 mile run followed by 2hr training session followed by driving across the country camping in a creepy forest at -2c for a two day race followed by dog still getting you up at 6am ready for another 5 mile run - agh!) but now they are old and crusty and one riddled with arthritis I am feeling somewhat bereft. 

I have just had two show spaniels for a 10 day holiday and while I love the affectionate, dippy little sods to pieces they are not the smartest bunch and far too easy to do by comparison. They have an invisible lead but only because they're too daft and lacking in any kind of drive to go far from their beloved human.


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## CorvusCorax (7 June 2018)

I thought mine would go nuts when he stopped doing so much but he's actually got much more chilled. With the odd crazy moment


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## blackcob (7 June 2018)

The problem is that I am still not used to chilled, or to being eyeballed and huffed at for daring to suggest a second walk in the same day. What happened to my screaming banshees?! 

The spaniels temporarily plugged the gap, poor things had their legs walked off and went home 1.2kg lighter than they arrived.


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## Clodagh (7 June 2018)

She has no more energy or drive than a trials bred lab, and is no more trouble in the house than they are or were at the same age, she lies down quietly while we eat and in the evening just sleeps in her basket. We never had an incontinent lab though, and I do find the constant floor washing a bit tiring, but it is getting better. Where I find her hard is a lab wants to do things with you, wheareas she wants to do things for herself. 15m may be natural - who knows, but tbh I need to get it a lot closer now so that it doesn't go further when she is working. I admit to being lazy and at the moment just appreciating that she doesn't purely bog off any more! It is interesting that everyones seem to hang around at the same distance though.


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## Cinnamontoast (7 June 2018)

Big dog generally stays in easy visual range, he likes to keep us in sight now, Bear bogs off into whatever bramble patch he can find but returns on 3 pips, Zak isn&#8217;t allowed further than I can throw a ball! 

Re not being clean in the house, my parents in law dog sat Brig and Jake many years ago when we&#8217;d just got them, we were wondering why they weren&#8217;t yet clean. They restricted them to the corridor for 3 days when they were indoors. They were clean when we got home. Brilliant!


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## Clodagh (7 June 2018)

cinnamontoast said:



			Big dog generally stays in easy visual range, he likes to keep us in sight now, Bear bogs off into whatever bramble patch he can find but returns on 3 pips, Zak isn&#8217;t allowed further than I can throw a ball! 

Re not being clean in the house, my parents in law dog sat Brig and Jake many years ago when we&#8217;d just got them, we were wondering why they weren&#8217;t yet clean. They restricted them to the corridor for 3 days when they were indoors. They were clean when we got home. Brilliant!
		
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She is clean for proper wees, but leaky overexcited ones are an ongoing issue!


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## Clodagh (25 August 2018)

Well an amazing update. I decided that she was totally not a dog I would ever like and that we would sell her come the spring. To that end, and to enable her to stand the best possible chance of finding a good home I have made a real effort with the training. 
I would still never, ever, in a million years choose to own another one but she has made huge progress. Today, for the first time, we actually went for a walk and she behaved like a normal dog, sniffy and busy but with me both mentally and physically. The first time ever I have felt a link with her. 

Apart from being like a record stuck on 78rpm why does no one tell you how much grooming spaniels need? And do those people that own great herds of them actually comb their ears every day?


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## blackcob (25 August 2018)

Very glad to hear your progress.  



Clodagh said:



			Apart from being like a record stuck on 78rpm why does no one tell you how much grooming spaniels need? And do those people that own great herds of them actually comb their ears every day?
		
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Nothing like a soggy spaniel! And the ears, god yes the ears, hours to dry and hours to comb out... I love these little twerps but couldn't deal with grooming them every day.


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## Clodagh (25 August 2018)

blackcob said:



			Very glad to hear your progress.  



Nothing like a soggy spaniel! And the ears, god yes the ears, hours to dry and hours to comb out... I love these little twerps but couldn't deal with grooming them every day. 






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Oh my, I will never complain about one working bred springer pair again!


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## TheresaW (25 August 2018)

How old is she now C? Luna, although clean in the house, still did excited wees up until a couple of months ago.  Shed stopped doing them indoors when we came in after being out at about 9/10 months, but when I took her out to get in the car when going up horses or just going for a walk, if neighbours happened to be outside and said hello and made a fuss of her, she would still do them. Last time we went to the vets (April I think, so would have been 10 months), she only did one excited wee. Time before that she did about 5!  Jabs due next month, so will see how far weve come.


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## Clodagh (25 August 2018)

She is 9 months. Excited wees only really happen now when she is carrying something and you praise her. Or ask her to sit so you can put her lead on. Funniest thing (I think) is when we are doing retrieve training in the garden she jumps up on the garden table with whatever she has, does a little wee and then brings it.


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## TheresaW (25 August 2018)

Bless her. Hopefully shell grow out of them completely soon.


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## Moobli (25 August 2018)

Clodagh said:



			Here she is today. She loves learning and doing things but boy you have to be on the ball - almost literally! She is now kennelled overnight as was getting dirtier and dirtier in her cage and I need my sleep. As she gets more hunting driven she no longer has time to wee or poo before bed, so when a girls gotta go. I have never had a dog dirty in the crate before. The kennel is a Godsend as we all start the day in a happy mood.  Come winter we will decide whether she can come back in at night. (I am a soft touch). 





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She is just sooooo pretty!


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## Moobli (25 August 2018)

Really interesting updates, especially where you say you didn't think you could ever like her.  Was that down to the weariness of trying to house train or just her personality in general?  It sounds much more positive now though.  Will you keep her?


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## Cinnamontoast (25 August 2018)

Re herds of spaniels, mine are forever on my knee and I fiddle with ears constantly, so no tats appear, although big dog won&#8217;t have it. A solo comb is your best friend! 

I did have to dry them the other day, think we had something happening. Bear sees the hairdryer and presents himself, nose in the air ecstatically, big dog skulks into a corner and puss cat helpfully lies down. 

I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re enjoying her, C. I was delighted with puss cat today, took him training alone, did plenty of dummy retrieves from a height. He&#8217;s so clever, up on his back legs searching, I was so impressed that he remembers when we haven&#8217;t done that for ages.


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## Clodagh (26 August 2018)

WorkingGSD said:



			Really interesting updates, especially where you say you didn't think you could ever like her.  Was that down to the weariness of trying to house train or just her personality in general?  It sounds much more positive now though.  Will you keep her?
		
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It is being so irrelevant to her when she is out of the garden. Every other breed I has had has given you some interaction, not going too far, eye contact, a tail flick of acknowledgement. She doesn't care if I am there or not.
Not sure if I have said this, but if my OH comes into the yard and I open the garden gate for the dogs to go and greet him the three labs run to him and the spanner just runs off to look for rabbits. Humans are not interesting. It is slowly getting better.
As for will we keep her, decision will be made in the new year but having dogged in with Tawny through a wood this morning I do really need a dog that can do it without fear of injury - Tawny crashing through piles of brash is terrifying as it is there she did her first stifle injury.


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## Clodagh (26 August 2018)

cinnamontoast said:



			Re herds of spaniels, mine are forever on my knee and I fiddle with ears constantly, so no tats appear, although big dog won&#8217;t have it. A solo comb is your best friend! 

I did have to dry them the other day, think we had something happening. Bear sees the hairdryer and presents himself, nose in the air ecstatically, big dog skulks into a corner and puss cat helpfully lies down. 

I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re enjoying her, C. I was delighted with puss cat today, took him training alone, did plenty of dummy retrieves from a height. He&#8217;s so clever, up on his back legs searching, I was so impressed that he remembers when we haven&#8217;t done that for ages.
		
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I did wonder about a solo comb, I only have a tail rake and it doesn't get in the hard bits! Mum has given me a comb that she uses on her collie and now that I have got the old knots out it seems to keep on top of things.
Glad 'puss cat' doing well.


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## Moobli (26 August 2018)

Clodagh said:



			It is being so irrelevant to her when she is out of the garden. Every other breed I has had has given you some interaction, not going too far, eye contact, a tail flick of acknowledgement. She doesn't care if I am there or not.
Not sure if I have said this, but if my OH comes into the yard and I open the garden gate for the dogs to go and greet him the three labs run to him and the spanner just runs off to look for rabbits. Humans are not interesting. It is slowly getting better.
As for will we keep her, decision will be made in the new year but having dogged in with Tawny through a wood this morning I do really need a dog that can do it without fear of injury - Tawny crashing through piles of brash is terrifying as it is there she did her first stifle injury.
		
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I totally get where you are coming from having looked after my sister's border terriers in the past.  I love my handler-dependent, biddable, only-have-eyes-for me GSDs.  The terriers were totally uninterested in humans when an interesting scent beckoned or they wanted to go one way and I another.  They are such robust, fun little dogs but there is no way I would want one.  House training them has been a nightmare too.  Collies are a bit of a mixed bag as we have some who just live for work and who seek sheep out at any opportunity, to those who have been every bit as handler orientated than the shepherds.  Spaniels definitely seem to live for their nose, which is great for working dogs - so long as it can be harnessed I guess?


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## Clodagh (26 August 2018)

WorkingGSD said:



			I totally get where you are coming from having looked after my sister's border terriers in the past.  I love my handler-dependent, biddable, only-have-eyes-for me GSDs.  The terriers were totally uninterested in humans when an interesting scent beckoned or they wanted to go one way and I another.  They are such robust, fun little dogs but there is no way I would want one.  House training them has been a nightmare too.  Collies are a bit of a mixed bag as we have some who just live for work and who seek sheep out at any opportunity, to those who have been every bit as handler orientated than the shepherds.  Spaniels definitely seem to live for their nose, which is great for working dogs - so long as it can be harnessed I guess?
		
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We have had lots of terriers, OH used to be a hunt terrierman and we had both kennelled workers/home living workers and home pets, all sorts, Borders, JRTs and patts. All much easier than a spaniel . There was a litter of Border collie x lab pups near here, I wanted to get one of them but we already had the spaniel and OH thought it was too soon to change our minds.
I think she will be OK, never 'mine' but OK to work. Will keep you informed.


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## druid (26 August 2018)

The best dogging in animal I've ever used was a Collie....long range control, no interest in flushing.

I hope you manage to learn to live with her - the lack of human orientation is odd though, mine are very much focused on me when out and about!


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## NiceNeverNaughty (26 August 2018)

lovely updates clodagh! We have had a lab and 7 collies over the last 20 years. we currently have 3 collies and got our first working cocker pup a few weeks ago. It&#8217;s a totally different kettle of fish but I did train a few folk with wcs when I ran classes so I had a little experience. I really think you&#8217;ve just been unlucky  but you are doing a fab job and she is gorgeous! I have had a collie dirty in a cage as you describe and a total nightmare to train, limited eye contact, completely distracted. I am convinced there are as many personality types with a breed as we get in humans and if an autistic spectrum exists, there is something similar for dogs. I don&#8217;t think your experience is just &#8216;typical spaniel&#8217;. Yes they are busy and can be work but Ive known several first time dog owners with them who hadn&#8217;t much clue and house training was clicked with a week as was off lead close work. Annoying as it was!   Ours is definitely different to the collies and not as quick to learn but he is one of the cleanest pups we have ever had and he is very focused. i havent read every single post in this thread but to me, I would stop allowing the opportunity to hunt and be distracted. I would set up a small 12 x 12 fenced toileting pen - take her out on the lead and back in on the lead. If she is distracted by things outside it, use a windbreak. We also have to teach them to be the kind of house dogs we want; you CAN teach her to be calm, in many cases this business you describe is actually a stress reaction, an overload, in my very humble experience, if you kennel her now you wont ever make a good transition back to the house dog you want. Ive tried it both ways. Good luck xx


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## Clodagh (27 August 2018)

druid said:



			The best dogging in animal I've ever used was a Collie....long range control, no interest in flushing.

I hope you manage to learn to live with her - the lack of human orientation is odd though, mine are very much focused on me when out and about!
		
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Trouble is the only collies we see here are the pet ones who have so many issues it has put OH off. I think living here with a job they would be fine.


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## Clodagh (27 August 2018)

NeverEver said:



			lovely updates clodagh! We have had a lab and 7 collies over the last 20 years. we currently have 3 collies and got our first working cocker pup a few weeks ago. Its a totally different kettle of fish but I did train a few folk with wcs when I ran classes so I had a little experience. I really think youve just been unlucky  but you are doing a fab job and she is gorgeous! I have had a collie dirty in a cage as you describe and a total nightmare to train, limited eye contact, completely distracted. I am convinced there are as many personality types with a breed as we get in humans and if an autistic spectrum exists, there is something similar for dogs. I dont think your experience is just typical spaniel. Yes they are busy and can be work but Ive known several first time dog owners with them who hadnt much clue and house training was clicked with a week as was off lead close work. Annoying as it was!   Ours is definitely different to the collies and not as quick to learn but he is one of the cleanest pups we have ever had and he is very focused. i havent read every single post in this thread but to me, I would stop allowing the opportunity to hunt and be distracted. I would set up a small 12 x 12 fenced toileting pen - take her out on the lead and back in on the lead. If she is distracted by things outside it, use a windbreak. We also have to teach them to be the kind of house dogs we want; you CAN teach her to be calm, in many cases this business you describe is actually a stress reaction, an overload, in my very humble experience, if you kennel her now you wont ever make a good transition back to the house dog you want. Ive tried it both ways. Good luck xx
		
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Really can't face building a pen for her, I was talking to a trailling spaniel man who said she must never be allowed to please herself, and I expect that level of obedience is best, but not the way we want to keep a dog. I am happy for her to chase sparrows in the garden. She is definately staying kennelled at night too. She is actually very good in the house and lies down with us when we are in the back during the day, apart from climbing on my lap when I am on the computer, which is fine. She is housetrained now bar excited sprinkles, which she really can't help. 
Today I am going to start insisting on eye contact, I have never had to train it before but I am sure it can be taught. I will be back soon with an update...


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## gunnergundog (27 August 2018)

Clodagh said:



			I was talking to a trailling spaniel man who said she must never be allowed to please herself, and I expect that level of obedience is best, but not the way we want to keep a dog. I am happy for her to chase sparrows in the garden. .
		
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Sorry if teaching grandmother to suck eggs, but a couple of points if I may.......  

Consistency is paramount with dogs;  therefore, how do you expect a young pup to know that it's okay to chase sparrows but not phezzies???  Yes, in time the dog may learn context......as in, in back garden it's fine but not in the field.  However, by allowing the one at this early age you are making a real rod for your own back and complicating matters.  (As an aside, I have used the darting and swooping of low level swifts in the past to test and build steadiness in a dog and to proof a stop whistle and VERY VERY occasionally in an older dog that was a bit stale to encourage it to 'get on'.   However, this was all with dogs that were pretty reliable.....not raw youngsters.)  By the way, mine aren't trailling dogs, just good old workers.

Also, maybe wrongly, I feel from what you write that your pup either is, or is on the verge of, going self-employed.  She needs to learn that you know the best places to hunt, that you are the one that provides her with all this fun and that it happens WITH you........not at a distance away from you.  Tighten up the size of the beat  you work with her - spanners are supposed to be boot lickers!!    (The voice of one who works HPRs!!)


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## Clodagh (27 August 2018)

Trouble is, the only way to stop sparrow chasing would be for her to be kennelled all day as if we are home, in this weather, the back door is open. As she can only go out of the garden on a lead or for a tight training session I am not sure that would be fair? I do acknowledge many people keep their dogs that way, and maybe that is the only successful way to keep a working spaniel. God help us if so!
She does know the difference between chickens and sparrows! And the garden is full of poults now (release pen in wood next door) and they seem to come under the chicken heading at the moment. I am not saying you are wrong, but just I would hate to keep a dog that only leaves its run to be trained. Maybe she will just have to live in the kennel 24/7 bar training if that is that the only answer? God I wish we had a collie!


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## Clodagh (27 August 2018)

OK, have had a quick meeting with OH and he agrees with you, we expect too much. So she is now in the kennel all the time bar 2 training sessions. Hopefully by next summer she will be able to potter in the garden, and soon we won't want the back door open anyway. Thank you.


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## NiceNeverNaughty (27 August 2018)

the thing is that if you work on it now, you don&#8217;t necessarily have to keep a dog in this way for life. There is hope!! You condition her now to be the dog you want. Can&#8217;t you put a baby gate over the back door? Honestly - get some cheap plastic barrier netting and a few electric fence posts and you can have a pee - pen in under 5 minutes.


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## Cinnamontoast (27 August 2018)

I think the saying that labs are born half trained, spaniels die half trained is apt here. I&#8217;ve known a couple of springers that don&#8217;t give a damn about being with the owner and have watched them trying to catch them in the woods. They&#8217;re known, however, as Velcro dogs, because they're normally glued to the owner. Zak is doing his panther lying on branch on my leg currently. I know I was stupid to train my two together but separately they&#8217;re a dream or fabulous together in a very controlled situation. 

I wonder if it would be helpful if you could find a springer specialist, although I know you&#8217;re experienced with other breeds. That&#8217;s when it all clicked for me, never thought I&#8217;d need one given I&#8217;d already had two (very easy ones!)


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## Clodagh (27 August 2018)

NeverEver said:



			the thing is that if you work on it now, you don&#8217;t necessarily have to keep a dog in this way for life. There is hope!! You condition her now to be the dog you want. Can&#8217;t you put a baby gate over the back door? Honestly - get some cheap plastic barrier netting and a few electric fence posts and you can have a pee - pen in under 5 minutes.
		
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We don't actually mind if she doesn't live in the house. The labs prefer it it without her!


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## Clodagh (27 August 2018)

cinnamontoast said:



			I wonder if it would be helpful if you could find a springer specialist, although I know you&#8217;re experienced with other breeds. That&#8217;s when it all clicked for me, never thought I&#8217;d need one given I&#8217;d already had two (very easy ones!)
		
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A friend of mine, who has been very helpful but is currently curtailed by 4 children and the school holidays is coming over next week. She works springers. I agree they are a totally different ball game, I really had no idea she would be so difficult (obviously or we wouldn't have got her). I expected harder than a lab but not to be totally overfaced. I feel like someone who has always had lovely Irish horses and has toddled off and got a highly bred dressage warmblood!
BTW update for how we got on today, eye contact is fabulous in the garden and non existent outside.


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## gunnergundog (27 August 2018)

Clodagh said:



			BTW update for how we got on today, eye contact is fabulous in the garden and non existent outside.
		
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So start introducing the distractions in the garden (other dogs, poults, rolling tennis ball, bolting rabbit etc etc), then move her to a NEW but non-distracting environment - village green/cricket pitch for instance - so you have the novelty, but no major distractions.  Then start adding the distractions in and upping the ante.  I suspect that scent is her 'downfall', so establish the behaviour you require in a sterile environment first and then add in scent under your control - ie cold game.


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## Cinnamontoast (27 August 2018)

Something that works really well to focus Zak is to put him in a sit. He will ignore everything but me (especially if I have a dummy in my hand, maybe get her interested in those). He maintains eye contact, ignores other distractions in the park-lots of dogs out today.


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## rara007 (28 August 2018)

'Normal' car parks are also your friend for eye contact! Pretty much 0 'fun' scent. I did a stint of whenever mine was in the car getting him out at every chores stop just to sit down heal and back in again.


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## Clodagh (29 August 2018)

Thank you all. Well she has been kennelled for one whole day and already it has made a difference. Thank you, GGD. She came out about 5 times yesterday for a short train/play (same thing) and as her kennel opens onto a 10 x 10m patch of well fenced grass (a chicken run) there is not a lot to distract there. There are chickens in it but she has been beaten up by them in the past and is very wary. 
OH also took her out on the stubble for a 5 min pattern and she was good. You can already see we are more interesting now we are the only interest.
I will reply to pms properly later but I think we need to scrap the pet aspect and look at her as a worker pure and simple. I still sat with her for a bit yesterday and gave her a brush and so on. I don't like her being kennelled alone but a friend has offered us another spaniel to keep her company! (Don't worry, not taking up that offer).
Will keep updating.


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## CorvusCorax (29 August 2018)

Well done - don't feel bad, it's just a different way of keeping her and no doubt the clarity will help her feel a bit more happy in the head.
Lots of dogs need a clear distinction between 'we're working now' and 'fanny about doing your own thing'.

I'm working with a 3yo who has come on leaps and bounds since her owner agreed to stop letting her potter about the field in between sessions and use it as an exercise place - the dog genuinely didn't realise when was work and when was play. Now we're either 'doing something' there or 'lying down waiting to do the next thing' there. 
Also having unlimited access to tennis balls in the house kinda devalued them when it came to training lol.

She is still a pet, she just a clearer distinction between when is work and when is not.

You can also use cues like certain leads, collars and clothing. The only time my dog wears a chain is when he's about to go on and work, it's the last part of the prep and it means 'we're working now'.


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## Clodagh (30 August 2018)

CorvusCorax said:



			Well done - don't feel bad, it's just a different way of keeping her and no doubt the clarity will help her feel a bit more happy in the head.
Lots of dogs need a clear distinction between 'we're working now' and 'fanny about doing your own thing'.
		
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Well I do feel bad - in fact she is sitting in the office with me now! But no free running in the garden. OH will no doubt disagree when he gets home and most of her time will still be out.
On the huge plus side though I took her for a walk round the garden (we have a fairly big one) and her stop whistle was fabulous, she is so much more attentive.


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## Moobli (30 August 2018)

Clodagh said:



			Well I do feel bad - in fact she is sitting in the office with me now! But no free running in the garden. OH will no doubt disagree when he gets home and most of her time will still be out.
On the huge plus side though I took her for a walk round the garden (we have a fairly big one) and her stop whistle was fabulous, she is so much more attentive.
		
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I must admit it is not how I would want to keep my dogs either.  I like them being around me all day doing various things or nothing at all.  Hopefully this early training will help mean she has more of a free rein as she matures.


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## Clodagh (30 August 2018)

WorkingGSD said:



			I must admit it is not how I would want to keep my dogs either.  I like them being around me all day doing various things or nothing at all.  Hopefully this early training will help mean she has more of a free rein as she matures.
		
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That is exactly what I am hoping, short term pain and all that. I would love her to be a dog that could just come for a walk, but I don't know if we will ever achieve that goal!


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## druid (30 August 2018)

This is where my stable door for a back door comes in handy, top is open for a breeze but no escapees

I do at about a year old train an exercise scenario where they get to walk to heel to the gate, sprint up and down one particular laneway on the property, sit up and wait for the lake gate to be opened and line up on the dock of the lake for two water retrieves each (steadinness expected) before racing up the lane for breakfast. Until then it's indoors, out to empty themselves or working for me. They're all velcro dogs bar the 5yo FTCh who is by far the worst behaved but still has a very solid recall - he just insists on running the whole length of the beach every day before lining up with the others!


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## Clodagh (30 August 2018)

druid said:



			This is where my stable door for a back door comes in handy, top is open for a breeze but no escapees

I do at about a year old train an exercise scenario where they get to walk to heel to the gate, sprint up and down one particular laneway on the property, sit up and wait for the lake gate to be opened and line up on the dock of the lake for two water retrieves each (steadinness expected) before racing up the lane for breakfast. Until then it's indoors, out to empty themselves or working for me. They're all velcro dogs bar the 5yo FTCh who is by far the worst behaved but still has a very solid recall - he just insists on running the whole length of the beach every day before lining up with the others!
		
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I am living and learning!


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## Cinnamontoast (30 August 2018)

druid said:



			They're all velcro dogs bar the 5yo FTCh who is by far the worst behaved but still has a very solid recall - he just insists on running the whole length of the beach every day before lining up with the others!
		
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This makes me die, rebellious creature! Reminds me of one of mine...100mph round the woods, but straight back when called. Velcro dog indeed, he&#8217;s crawled onto my knee about 5 times today, despite having had an overload of cuddles from 3am when I decamped, unable to sleep, to the spare room.


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## Clodagh (23 September 2018)

Well nearly a month on we have bottomed out and moved on. I put her up for sale and actually had a couple of enquiries and then couldn't find her paperwork! The next morning OH did the dogging in and came home with 2 lame labs and said we are going to have to keep her as we really need something that can crash through ditches with impunity (we hope).
She is not allowed out except for under tight supervision, so is kennelled overnight, allowed out in the grass run in the morning for an hour, then back in the kennel while I go to work. After work she gets a lead walk and training/ball throwing. After that she comes in the house (and crashes, she does not relax in the kennel during the day).
Her stop whistle is awesome, I was walking her in the garden off lead yesterday and she came out of the hedge after half a dozen poults and I blew and she stopped so sharply she skidded on her bum. Now if we can nail that outside I will be happy!
We are not doing anything off lead outside the garden.


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## druid (23 September 2018)

Sounds like you've got a sensible way of managing her now. I do feel for you, working a dog you dislike (maybe dislike is the wrong, word but you understand what I mean?) is both grating and draining. I hope the new regime makes life easier for both of you


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## Clodagh (23 September 2018)

druid said:



			Sounds like you've got a sensible way of managing her now. I do feel for you, working a dog you dislike (maybe dislike is the wrong, word but you understand what I mean?) is both grating and draining. I hope the new regime makes life easier for both of you
		
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You are so right. As you say 'dislike' is a strong word but whereas when I train the labs I come back buzzing with her I just come back with a headache! She is a sweet little dog but just such hard work. She came in yesterday afternoon and just peed all over the hall carpet (excitement wee) and it was the last straw in my day (lots of not dog related stuff piling up on me) so went straight back out in the kennel again.
I know the less she comes in the more exciting it is but why can't she just learn to be continent!!


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## Fools Motto (23 September 2018)

As you know my spaniel is now a pretty good pet. But christ alive, 2 years ago I was still tearing my hair out. 
My M-i-L spaniel is far worse. She is a nightmare (spaniel - the m-i-l I've got used to! lol). The excited pee isn't just a little, it's a lot, and it sprays everywhere! Her feet, and her fluffs are stained yellow. We always have to great outside. You have to dodge the dog or your shoes get it too. Whats worse though, is she is an ill mannered spaniel. Will go for other dogs. Mine doesn't like her either, there is always a few snaps, but I know mine is trying to get her to behave and calm down!!
I gave mine a few scraps in her feed yesterday. I never normally do. Within moments we were all preparing for accidents. Farts were toxic. She will never be 100% house trained!


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## TheresaW (23 September 2018)

Clodagh said:



			Well nearly a month on we have bottomed out and moved on. I put her up for sale and actually had a couple of enquiries and then couldn't find her paperwork! The next morning OH did the dogging in and came home with 2 lame labs and said we are going to have to keep her as we really need something that can crash through ditches with impunity (we hope).l
		
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I think its a sign shes there for life! &#128514;


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## Clodagh (23 September 2018)

TheresaW said:



			I think it&#8217;s a sign she&#8217;s there for life! &#55357;&#56834;
		
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Oh she is now, and actually she is a sweetie, she has been in all afternoon and I haven't yet had to clean anything up!


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## Moobli (24 September 2018)

Onwards and upwards


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## Clodagh (29 September 2018)

Well, I think someone may have swapped the spanner for another better behaved one. 
We are far from perfection, but now I can think her misdemeanours are within the bounds of a 10 month old pup. 
Stop whistle - nailed it
Recall - ditto
She now circles on walks and then comes and looks at you - that is an incredible step forward!
All the above do very occasionally go out the window - but only once this week. As the whole farm is flooded with pheasants, rabbits and squirrels - including our garden, it is not possible to find a game free area but if she flushes a pheasant she sits down! (I imagine she thinks it is a chicken, but whatever works). I am not sugesting we are just doing a sensible walk like with a middle aged lab but I do feel there may be some sort of connection happening. I am not so irrelevant to her now.


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## Clodagh (29 September 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			As you know my spaniel is now a pretty good pet. But christ alive, 2 years ago I was still tearing my hair out.
My M-i-L spaniel is far worse. She is a nightmare (spaniel - the m-i-l I've got used to! lol). The excited pee isn't just a little, it's a lot, and it sprays everywhere! Her feet, and her fluffs are stained yellow. We always have to great outside. You have to dodge the dog or your shoes get it too. Whats worse though, is she is an ill mannered spaniel. Will go for other dogs. Mine doesn't like her either, there is always a few snaps, but I know mine is trying to get her to behave and calm down!!
I gave mine a few scraps in her feed yesterday. I never normally do. Within moments we were all preparing for accidents. Farts were toxic. She will never be 100% house trained!
		
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She can eat anything, gut like iron, but her knickers are disgustingly crusty and her personal hygiene leaves a lot to be desired.


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## TheresaW (29 September 2018)

Iâ€™m really glad itâ€™s all starting to fall into place.  Iâ€™ve always liked Spaniels, but seeing how youâ€™ve struggled with her, definitely not a dog we will likely get in the future.  If youâ€™ve found it a struggle, we would be doomed


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## Clodagh (29 September 2018)

TheresaW said:



			Iâ€™m really glad itâ€™s all starting to fall into place.  Iâ€™ve always liked Spaniels, but seeing how youâ€™ve struggled with her, definitely not a dog we will likely get in the future.  If youâ€™ve found it a struggle, we would be doomed 

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I am not convinced, lots of people seem to have perfectly nice ones, it was just me that was stumped!


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## Moobli (29 September 2018)

Really good to hear you so positive about her.  Sheâ€™s too pretty to be frustrated with her for too long ðŸ˜‚


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## Clodagh (29 September 2018)

WorkingGSD said:



			Really good to hear you so positive about her.  Sheâ€™s too pretty to be frustrated with her for too long ðŸ˜‚
		
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'Andsome is what 'andsome does!


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## gunnergundog (29 September 2018)

Clodagh said:



			Well, I think someone may have swapped the spanner for another better behaved one.
We are far from perfection, but now I can think her misdemeanours are within the bounds of a 10 month old pup.
Stop whistle - nailed it
Recall - ditto
She now circles on walks and then comes and looks at you - that is an incredible step forward!
		
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Nice one!


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## Thistle (2 October 2018)

She just needed the threat of coming to live with all my boys!

Can I send my mad spaniels to you for steadieness training please!


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## Clodagh (2 October 2018)

Thistle said:



			She just needed the threat of coming to live with all my boys!

Can I send my mad spaniels to you for steadieness training please!
		
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You obviously haven't got enough chickens and pheasants around. She chased a poult yesterday, she just couldn't be good for too long.


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## kimberleigh (2 October 2018)

Clodagh said:



			Well, I think someone may have swapped the spanner for another better behaved one.
We are far from perfection, but now I can think her misdemeanours are within the bounds of a 10 month old pup.
Stop whistle - nailed it
Recall - ditto
She now circles on walks and then comes and looks at you - that is an incredible step forward!
All the above do very occasionally go out the window - but only once this week. As the whole farm is flooded with pheasants, rabbits and squirrels - including our garden, it is not possible to find a game free area but if she flushes a pheasant she sits down! (I imagine she thinks it is a chicken, but whatever works). I am not sugesting we are just doing a sensible walk like with a middle aged lab but I do feel there may be some sort of connection happening. I am not so irrelevant to her now. 
View attachment 25839

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Shes a very innocent looking girl! Mine is an angel, but turns 12months on the 7th so I ought to do some training as she hasnt been officially taught a single command yet ðŸ™ˆ I've never trained a gundog type before though and so have been procrastinating! Photo of the mad one below, she is like a leaner version of the duracell bunny!


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## Clodagh (2 October 2018)

Kimberleigh - if nothing else teach her the stop whistle. At least it gives you time to gather your thoughts and try to see where it all went wrong!


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## kimberleigh (2 October 2018)

Clodagh said:



			Kimberleigh - if nothing else teach her the stop whistle. At least it gives you time to gather your thoughts and try to see where it all went wrong!
		
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To me the concept of the stop whistle is like fairytale magic ðŸ˜‚ any tips for a first timer?!


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## Clodagh (2 October 2018)

As she walks along with you blow a long peep and stop yourself. It does help if they have learned sit!! Get that first.  Youtube has all the answers!!


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## kimberleigh (2 October 2018)

Clodagh said:



			As she walks along with you blow a long peep and stop yourself. It does help if they have learned sit!! Get that first.  Youtube has all the answers!!
		
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She sits/downs/comes but not paired with actual verbal commands - more body language rather than hand signals too ðŸ™ˆ come is just to me whistling, rather than to an actual blow on a whistle. She will stop/sit/down just watching me so im guessing I could use capturing to train it reliably? She's obsessed with me, despite me never having paid her much attention (due to me believing shes a bit too sensitive for my style of training...) but seems shes begging for me to work with her so I should give it a go really!


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## Clodagh (8 October 2018)

Well today, for the first time ever, I took the spaniel for a walk and she didn't just vanish over the horizon. Amazing. It was not relaxing, fine, but she didn't just sod off. Those of you who don't own one cannot imagine how exciting that is! To go for a walk and have your dog in sight the whole way!! Woo hoo. Progress.


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## skinnydipper (8 October 2018)

I was once asked to take a Springer. Father had left home and mother bought child a Springer pup as a consolation prize. It had reached young adulthood without any sort of training.  I had a houseful so couldn't take it.

Clodagh, if I had known you at the time I could have put them in touch.


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## Annette4 (8 October 2018)

Clodagh said:



			Well today, for the first time ever, I took the spaniel for a walk and she didn't just vanish over the horizon. Amazing. It was not relaxing, fine, but she didn't just sod off. Those of you who don't own one cannot imagine how exciting that is! To go for a walk and have your dog in sight the whole way!! Woo hoo. Progress. 

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I donâ€™t have a spaniel but I do have a 1yo lurcher with selective recall at the moment so I fully understand this joy!


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## Clodagh (8 October 2018)

Annette4 said:



			I donâ€™t have a spaniel but I do have a 1yo lurcher with selective recall at the moment so I fully understand this joy! 

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She reached the pinnacle when she vansihed far enough to cross the back road to the airport, a few weeks ago. I stopped walking her off lead for a bit but then decided I just had to accept if she got run over so be it, my more relaxed frame of mind seems to have helped! If you really love Dobby that might not work though.


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## Clodagh (8 October 2018)

skinnydipper said:



			I was once asked to take a Springer. Father had left home and mother bought child a Springer pup as a consolation prize. It had reached young adulthood without any sort of training.  I had a houseful so couldn't take it.

Clodagh, if I had known you at the time I could have put them in touch.

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Gee, thanks!


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## TheresaW (8 October 2018)

Am more than happy to swap her for a roan arsehole pony?


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## Clodagh (8 October 2018)

TheresaW said:



			Am more than happy to swap her for a roan arsehole pony?
		
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God no - I got rid of him once - never again! Has he been rearranging the fencing again?


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## skinnydipper (8 October 2018)

Clodagh said:



			Gee, thanks!
		
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I thought you enjoyed the challenge. He would have been too much for me


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## TheresaW (8 October 2018)

Clodagh said:



			God no - I got rid of him once - never again! Has he been rearranging the fencing again?
		
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No! Heâ€™s worked out ways to get out without damage.  Suppose I should be grateful for that much at least.  Had suspected for a while he was having adventures, finding random poos where they shouldnâ€™t be. Been caught in the act tonight.


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## Clodagh (9 October 2018)

ooops Ol!


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## Clodagh (9 October 2018)

skinnydipper said:



			I thought you enjoyed the challenge. He would have been too much for me 

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A challenge? Not for me, that is why I like labradors.


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## Shady (9 October 2018)

Clodagh said:



			A challenge? Not for me, that is why I like labradors.
		
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Lol, try a Bleu de Gascogne hound! Every Frenchman who saw us laughed their arses off and declared they are NEVER pets and she would begger off at the first opportunity . 
I can't tell you how determined i was to prove these old farts wrong and yes it took a while but eventually we got to '' not too far '' meant stay where i can see you and ''Allez '' meant do what you want but come when i whistle. It was amazing how much money was offered me for her after that   She is the most amazing dog i could ever wish to have.


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## Apercrumbie (9 October 2018)

Clodagh said:



			Well today, for the first time ever, I took the spaniel for a walk and she didn't just vanish over the horizon. Amazing. It was not relaxing, fine, but she didn't just sod off. Those of you who don't own one cannot imagine how exciting that is! To go for a walk and have your dog in sight the whole way!! Woo hoo. Progress. 

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I completely understand the feeling although ironically our spaniel was the only dog we've ever had with spot on recall and who stuck to us like glue. It was our setter and current Irish terrier that are the recall fiends!


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## TheOldTrout (9 October 2018)

She looks beautiful.


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## palo1 (9 October 2018)

Don't want to hijack this thread but Apercrumbie, I am interested to hear about training your Irish terrier...hoping to acquire one next year for my sins...!!


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## twiggy2 (9 October 2018)

I am going to be setting off on springer training dutiea, starting in the next few day. 
Th mother of the pups has no training on board, is 2 and a half, she does not run off and does have a recal of sorts but just cannot stop moving. 
Last pup goes Monday and I must invest time in the springer and the collie. 
So Clodagh what do you feel should be taught first?


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## druid (9 October 2018)

Depends what you want her for - trialling people say teach go before you teach whoa. Pet wise recall and stop come first imo


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## twiggy2 (9 October 2018)

druid said:



			Depends what you want her for - trialling people say teach go before you teach whoa. Pet wise recall and stop come first imo
		
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She already has go and at two and a half I can't see her being a trials dog, she is nuts.


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## Clodagh (9 October 2018)

Druid has trained a million spaniels, I am failing with one! I would say the stop whistle, Smut's is so good that one long peep and she skids on her bum like a quarter horse. (Unless she has already gone...).


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## Cinnamontoast (9 October 2018)

Recall, all the way. That way, they canâ€™t get in trouble with other dogs. 

What do you want to do with her, Twiggy? We can all give you advice but it all depends what you want from her.


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## twiggy2 (10 October 2018)

cinnamontoast said:



			Recall, all the way. That way, they canâ€™t get in trouble with other dogs.

What do you want to do with her, Twiggy? We can all give you advice but it all depends what you want from her.
		
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She is not mine and never will be, so I just want her to be a bit more controllable. She is not remotely interested in other dogs (except of course when she ended up in pupðŸ˜‰ and that was before I was here), so won't ever get herself in dog trouble, her recall is good enough that you would never lose her and she does not stray too far.
The biggest thing I would like with her is steadiness I suppose.
What I am probably asking is, what does everyone with spaniels find is the most useful piece of training they have?
I don't have to walk the dogs in parks and the like, it's farms and open land especially the spaniels cos they have not one ounce of interest in livestock.


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## twiggy2 (10 October 2018)

I am wondering if clicker training would work for her?
17ish years of teaching dog training and training dogs and I can't see the wood for getting trees with where to start with this little bitch.


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## Clodagh (10 October 2018)

I have decided, against the advice of everyone that ever owned a spaniel, ever, that I want a dog that can relax enough on a walk to have a sniff at things, eat a bit of grass, and enjoy it, rather than running like a frantic loon. Who knows if it will work but on her walk this afternoon she did do a few smells and grab some grass in passing. I took her down to the stream and she paddled and had a drink and was actually quite a pleasant companion. She can only do canter or gallop but I don't think I have ever seen a spaniel go slower than that anyway, but with less nagging she is still being very good. 
On my way home we called in at my mums for a cup of tea and she didn't even wet herself! (The spaniel, although I don't think mum did either.)


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## Clodagh (10 October 2018)

twiggy2 said:



			She is not mine and never will be, so I just want her to be a bit more controllable. She is not remotely interested in other dogs (except of course when she ended up in pupðŸ˜‰ and that was before I was here), so won't ever get herself in dog trouble, her recall is good enough that you would never lose her and she does not stray too far.
The biggest thing I would like with her is steadiness I suppose.
What I am probably asking is, what does everyone with spaniels find is the most useful piece of training they have?
I don't have to walk the dogs in parks and the like, it's farms and open land especially the spaniels cos they have not one ounce of interest in livestock.
		
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The stop, for sure, I assume she will go beating this winter? Stop to flush is good, but you need a spanner person to tell you how best to achieve that.


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## Roxylola (10 October 2018)

twiggy2 said:



			I am wondering if clicker training would work for her?
17ish years of teaching dog training and training dogs and I can't see the wood for getting trees with where to start with this little bitch.
		
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 https://journeydogtraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ProtocolforRelaxation.pdf is a long read but great for training calm in busy pet dogs


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## twiggy2 (10 October 2018)

Clodagh said:



			The stop, for sure, I assume she will go beating this winter? Stop to flush is good, but you need a spanner person to tell you how best to achieve that.
		
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Oh God, I would not take her beating this year, not convince she will ever work as she has had too long pleasing herself but she may surprise me


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## twiggy2 (10 October 2018)

Roxylola said:



 https://journeydogtraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ProtocolforRelaxation.pdf is a long read but great for training calm in busy pet dogs
		
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I can't get the page up for some reason


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## Roxylola (10 October 2018)

twiggy2 said:



			I can't get the page up for some reason
		
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It's pdf, try googling "protocol for relaxation for dogs" It's by Karen Overall


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## Clodagh (10 October 2018)

twiggy2 said:



			Oh God, I would not take her beating this year, not convince she will ever work as she has had too long pleasing herself but she may surprise me
		
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Think of the people that work rescue spanners.


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## Cinnamontoast (10 October 2018)

Think of the people who have 3! Think of the children! See, springers are NO bother!


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## twiggy2 (10 October 2018)

Clodagh said:



			Think of the people that work rescue spanners. 

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I have worked with many of them over the years, the people and the dogs.
Little Ellie may surprise me and turn out to be a cracking dog. She is just nuts, if she gets in the house she does the wall of death including over all beds and furniture.
She just has no rules or boundaries, there is not a bad bone in her. If she was mine I would be getting her ball focused and offering her up for a bomb dog or similar, but she is not mine so I will see what I can do.



cinnamontoast said:



			Think of the people who have 3! Think of the children! See, springers are NO bother! 

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Oh I would have packs of springers like Ellie and still find them easier than kids.


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## druid (11 October 2018)

If you do want to work her stop and steadiness are your biggest needs, I use steadiness to teach stop but others work it differently.


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## twiggy2 (12 October 2018)

druid said:



			If you do want to work her stop and steadiness are your biggest needs, I use steadiness to teach stop but others work it differently.
		
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How do you start to teach the steadiness druid?


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## Apercrumbie (12 October 2018)

palo1 said:



			Don't want to hijack this thread but Apercrumbie, I am interested to hear about training your Irish terrier...hoping to acquire one next year for my sins...!! 

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With great difficulty is the answer to how to train an Irish Terrier! I've never known such an independent, wilful dog. She's a cracker though - once we get her trained we'll have a fantastic dog. 

She does exceptionally well at puppy classes but exceptionally poorly when she wants to do something else - pretty standard tbh. The key so far is always to walk her hungry, carry very exciting toys if you're doing any off lead work and know when to ignore her (ie. if she's ignoring you, run away making weird noises). Short and sharp training sessions - she's so intelligent so she gets things quickly and gets bored equally quickly. We have very specific ways of doing things - ie. for recall her nose has to touch your hand to get the treat. This means that she sees the hand go to position and runs towards it. Any deviation from that and you won't get a response.

I'll try to do a more detailed post at some point - she's a challenge but a joy and I think we'll eventually have a dog that other people would love to have. In many ways we already do.


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## Cinnamontoast (13 October 2018)

apercrumbie said:



			ie. if she's ignoring you, run away making weird noises
		
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I would love to see that!  I was once given advice to lie down to get the boys to recall. I didnâ€™t actually do this because we used to walk in woods much frequented by other dog walkers before Zak turned feral. I feared Iâ€™d be stepped on.  A squeaker from a toy works best, I find, but sight of a muntjac means all bets are off.


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## palo1 (14 October 2018)

apercrumbie said:



			With great difficulty is the answer to how to train an Irish Terrier! I've never known such an independent, wilful dog. She's a cracker though - once we get her trained we'll have a fantastic dog.

She does exceptionally well at puppy classes but exceptionally poorly when she wants to do something else - pretty standard tbh. The key so far is always to walk her hungry, carry very exciting toys if you're doing any off lead work and know when to ignore her (ie. if she's ignoring you, run away making weird noises). Short and sharp training sessions - she's so intelligent so she gets things quickly and gets bored equally quickly. We have very specific ways of doing things - ie. for recall her nose has to touch your hand to get the treat. This means that she sees the hand go to position and runs towards it. Any deviation from that and you won't get a response.

I'll try to do a more detailed post at some point - she's a challenge but a joy and I think we'll eventually have a dog that other people would love to have. In many ways we already do.
		
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Thanks for this: pretty much what I had expected to hear to be honest!  My current dog who is older is a different breed and a rescue is bred and trained to be independent and pretty much self-directed.  She is fantastically responsive to food treats in the right setting but in many other settings, with nose to the ground and ears on shutdown I have less impact on her!! Thankfully we have our own ground which is very well fenced, she is beautifully stock trained (we have a variety) and fab in the house so may be a helpful role model...I am very much aware of the need for short, exciting, high reward training sessions with a terrier but still am expecting surprises and a wide variety of challenges!!


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