# Desperate for help, can the vets really get it wrong



## ducktails (7 September 2010)

I have a feeling that this is going to sound so desperate that I could possibly sound crazy, but bear with me and please if you have anything to offer please do, because quite honestly I am at the end of my tether...

As brief as possible history, after 6 months of messing around with my own vets I sent my horse up to Animal Health Trust for a full lameness work up. Diagnosis was chronic suspensory damage to both hind legs, chronic damage to left fore suspensory and arthritic changes to sacro illiac joint. Sue Dyson told me my mare would never come back into any amount of athletic work and I applied for loss of use. At the grand old age of 7 I told my insurance company that I felt she would not be suitable as a pet and I didn't want to watch her deteriorate so elected for euthanasia....

Then.. I hear about Roger Meacock of natural healing solutions who I paid £300 (not normally that much but he came to me as I didn't want to put my girl through 6 hours of travelling). Roger came out and basically told me my horses teeth were awful despite being done and that her foot balance was poor and that this is what has caused the suspensory damage, he also came out put her pelvis back in and said thats what has caused the sacro illiac damage and that she will not only be able to be ridden, BUT be able to return to full athletic work that is within her capabilities including jumping, schooling etc. The future was to get her teeth done by bob livock (3 hours away) sort out the foot balance then bring her back into work.

cue me getting excited then only on coming down from the excitement has it left me feeling so confused that I can spend 6k at a vets to be told shoot her and 300 quid with this guy who said the problems are not permanent. Sooo I called back to Sue Dyson and put what Roger Meacock has said to me to her and she has basically called Roger a cowboy who is prying on gullible (I prefer desperate to give their horse every chance) owners. She has said that studies have been preformed on suspensory damage by vets and that even with damage detected to hind limbs within 6 weeks the return to work ratio is 14%. 

I am so confused, this guy sounds so sure I know sugar cubes off this forum has also took his advice over Sue Dysons on her horse but I can't see how the vets you spend 6k on with all the machinery can be wrong over a guy and his theories.. I know who I want to believe and what he says make sense but I can't drag my self through this much longer. This mare is my baby, I need to make the right decision for her.

So please any advice, anyone out there had a horse recover from hind limb suspensory damage, insurance money is over surgery wasn't an option and I refuse to put her on box rest if the prognosis really is so poor. If doctor grass will do it she can have as much of the bloody green stuff as she wants but if this guy is talking **** and someone knows it out there please let me know.

If you have got to the bottom send me your address and I'll send you a medal

Terri


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## smiffyimp (7 September 2010)

Im soooo sorry to hear your story, must be heart breaking. Yes vets can get it wrong - they did very much so with my dog who got menigitis (which I told them) and it was ignored. I kicked up got a second opinion and she was admitted to Dick Whites in Newmarket - she had meningitis and we got her there with about 12hrs to live!

In your case, I would hear what the AHT are saying. They are so well renown with fantastic technology that I doubt they will be wrong. I have no knowledge of Roger Meacock so cannot comment but I have heard of Sue Dyson and she knows her stuff.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. X


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## ElvisandTilly (7 September 2010)

I have a very similar story to you. £6000 plus on vets and physio and still nothing found or cured in the whole 18 months of trying to get to the bottom of his problems. 

Change of farrier and feet rebalanced and 2 treatments of craniosacral treatment from Julie Houghton at a total cost of £122 and horse is a completely different horse!

The vets couldn't pinpoint what was going on. I can certainly understand what your going through. Thankfully my boy didn't end up as a field ornament which is basically what he would have been if I had continued down the vet route.


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## seabsicuit2 (7 September 2010)

Sue Dyson is an excellent vet but VERY doom and gloom to the extent where many vets would advise their clients not to refer their horses to the AHT.  A LOT of horses have been written off by her, wether they had to be or not, no-one would know, but so many horses have been written off, it almost seems ridicolous?
Roger tends to look at things from a more straightforward view point , rather than opening a can of worms and digging deeper and deeper into a mess. Its a simplistic view of looking at things,and can often work.
You have to think- if I x rayed, body scanned and MRI'ed the top 10 showjumpers, top 10 eventers, racehorses, dressage horses, what would be found?? all sorts I bet. It must be physically impossible to have top performing horses with a truely clean bill of health i.e absolutely nothing showing on x rays, bone scans, MRI, ultrasound.

IMO you have nothing to loose by following roger's advice and giving your horse plenty of time off and Dr Green ( a year ?) and seeing what happens. If it doesnt work, it doesnt work, but at least you have tried.


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## Zebedee (7 September 2010)

Can you afford to keep her for another year? More to the point will you be able to deal with the heartbreak when twelve months down the line the outcome is the same (which I think is the most likely result I'm afraid) & with the guilt of having subjected your mare to a further twelve months of discomfort?
Does this Roger Meacock have any professional qualifications? Is he an EDT or a farrier?
You also need to look at the view of your insurance company, who may not be prepared to pay out in a years time.
May I though just express my admiration at your courage when making the initial decision prior to consulting Mr Meacock. If only all owners were as responsible as you are we wouldn't see all these "Companion free to good home" type adverts, which frequently aren't serving the best interests of the horse concerned.


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## kerilli (7 September 2010)

well, i've heard very very good things of Roger Meacock too (incidentally, zebedee, he's an MRCVS... not just some unqualified quack!) and he's right up on the list of people I'm going to next for my perplexing horse.
ducktails, is your mare in pain? could she have a year of Dr Green without discomfort? If so, I'd give her the chance if she were mine.
Yes, vets can get it wrong - I can think of one horse who was iirc an insurance write-off and was given to a young event rider, and proceeded to do very well at 4* level with her for a few years. No, he didn't last forever, but nor do some horses with no previously apparent problems. 
I don't know where you are in the country, but Dean Andrews EDT trained with Bob Livock, does an excellent job, and is near Belvoir Castle, is that a shorter journey for you?
Very best of luck with your girl.


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## seabsicuit2 (7 September 2010)

Another point about suspensory damage- I assume that it was suspensory desmitis that your horse was diagnosed with in both hinds and the fore?

I read an article not long ago that the latest research has shown that suspensory desmitis is actually only correctly diagnosed in 43% of cases- ultrasound and nerve blocks alone is NOT a correct indicator of PSD- you can only confirm it with MRI.
The AHT only use ultrasound and nerve blocks to diagnose PSD.
Could go some way to explain why so many horses who have the PSD op are no better after surgery.. have copied and pasted below.

When your horse is lame, a diagnosis of suspensory trouble can be discouraging, particularly if it's termed proximal suspensory desmitis (PSD). Inflammation of the upper suspensory ligament in this area can be tough and expensive to treat successfully, particularly in the hind limbs. Why? Because not all PSD cases are accurately diagnosed with common diagnostic methods and, thus, are not effectively treated, according to new research presented at the American College of Veterinary Surgeons meeting on Oct. 20.

Proximal suspensory desmitis is usually diagnosed with nerve blocks to localize the pain followed by radiographic and ultrasonographic examination to visualize lesions and guide treatment. However, Rich Redding, DVM, MS, Dipl. ACVS, clinical associate professor of equine surgery at North Carolina State University (NCSU) and lead author on the study, found that ultrasound was only accurate in diagnosing PSD in 43% of the horses that MRI confirmed as having PSD. The study used MRI as the "gold standard" for PSD diagnosis in horses that had pain localized to the proximal suspensory region. 

"MRI shows that just because you block pain that originates in this region, you don't necessarily have a problem in the suspensory ligament," he explained.

MRI on 25 anesthetized horses showed that six (24%) had primary PSD without bony lesions (the "typical" PSD case), seven (28%) had PSD with co-existent bony lesions, while eight horses (32%) had only bony lesions in that area, and the other four (16%) had no focal suspensory lesions (just adhesions and mild enlargement).

Redding explained that if the diagnosis is inaccurate, expensive treatment might be directed incorrectly. Obviously, this reduces the horse's chance of a successful return to performance as it might be a little like putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm, or a splint on a cut--it's just not what that injury needs to heal.

"It's relatively expensive to do an MRI (about $2,700 at NCSU for PSD examination, which includes anesthesia and evaluation of paired front or hind limbs), but you need to know what the diagnosis is before you initiate treatment," he commented. Diagnosing PSD based on nerve blocks and ultrasonography alone is unreliable, he concluded


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## Ditchjumper2 (7 September 2010)

Yes they do get it wrong!!! When we go to Rossdales my OH is always saying its all very well doing all these scans , x rays etc but as horse never has them when he is OK how can they tell whether what is shown is normal for that horse?  Having had 2 big boys with undiagnosed foot lameness, both of which we were told would be capable of light work only, I can only say that one is now 17 and still going strong and the other jumped and hunted until PTS at 22 yrs. I would give your chap try.  I also think that if you believe in it it helps too..........go for it!!!


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## ducktails (7 September 2010)

http://www.naturalhealingsolutions.co.uk/

That is the link to Rogers credentials for anyone interested.

Seabisuit, that is very interesting. It is PSD, my horse was diagnosed using nerve blocks, scans, and bone scanning. Although there is nothing about the uptake in the suspensory region only in the sacro illiac joint. In fact we never got a fully positive black to the suspensories Roger used his SCENAR device and actually said there was little damage to them.

This is taken from his website

Roger is seeing more cases of Proximal Suspensory Desmitis than ever before, both as residential in-patients at Kington Langley Stud and as out-patients.  All cases seen by Roger and the team he uses to treat these individuals have been successfully treated without surgery or shockwave.  Treatment of the underlying problems that lead to PSD allow the body and suspensory ligaments to recover for a fraction of the cost of surgery with a significantly reduced risk of recurrence or further lameness.  If your horse has been diagnosed with PSD in one or both hind legs then do not be misled into thinking shockwave or surgery to cut the nerve is the only possible answer. 

My horse will never be free to a good home, home is with me. I can afford to keep her, I do not have land so will need to find somewhere to turn her away but that is fairly easily done. 
The heart ache will be harder to deal with and that is why I am here looking for answers. I don't want to do the day to late or early. I do think she is feeling some pain and I scrutinise her movement every time she trots across the field to me. The insurance company have accepted LOU either way, if she stays she gets branded and the pay out is 60% of whatever they value her at rather than the 100%. I must point out whilst it is obviosuly not even half about the money, I always have a sensible head and chucking 3k down the drain will not be done lightly.


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## Daisychain (7 September 2010)

Yes they absolutely do get it wrong, along with doctors ....

I would absolutely go with Roger on this one, get the balance right, then allow time and rest, Dr green, her age only 7??  her body will be doing its upmost to heal her....

I am sure you will get your mare back to work.  Good luck


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## Maesfen (7 September 2010)

If it was me, I would give her the chance as long as she is as painfree as she can be.  If that involves bute for a couple of months while she adapts to the new posture that rebalancing will cause her and 12 months off, I can't see a problem with it myself and I do hope this chap proves successful for you.


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## VRIN (7 September 2010)

Why don't you contact Pammy Hutton and Laura B. and see what they have to say? He cites them as clients so worth an ask....


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## Sugarcubes (7 September 2010)

Hey Ducktails, 

Bravo, high five, well done!....you're doing absolutely the right thing. Your 6 year old mare deserves a chance. Ask any horsey person, and they'll tell you a story of a horse they knew that had been written off by vets - and it came back into full work again. I truly hope your decision on her life does not become tainted by the 100-60% insurance conundrum, although I am sure it won't, as you seem like a genuine caring person. 

I don't have an outcome to give to you yet, but you know I have gone the exact same route as you...I am doing everything to the letter regarding what Roger Meacock advised. Feet have been rebalanced, and they will require another shoeing or two to get them going in the right direction. 

Regarding farriery: I consistently used the same top class farrier from my gelding being a 3y.o. - up until May this year (he's now 5). In May, my boy moved to a new yard where I was not allowed to use my tried & true farrier - I had to use the one on the yard. After a couple of shoeings by this new guy, my horse's feet were growing very long in the toe, and flattening out and becoming wider (before they were always compact, short and strong). It was since the new farrier started shoeing him, that problems arose. Simultaneously though, the new "pro" rider was forcing my horse to do trot and canter lateral work (the horse was clearly having difficulty with it, and having violent explosive tantrums)...so I am not sure if it was the premature lateral work in a young horse, or the farriery that caused / or precipitated the PSD. (That's if it even is PSD??, as I also did not have MRI done due to exorbitant cost, plus the insurance company were being arsey about the investigations). 

Here's the article that seabsicuit2 was referring to... (you need to login) 
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10775

I do now wonder if an MRI would show anything in my horse's legs. In any case, I am doing everything for him, he's just a sweetheart, and I would do anything for him. When I took him on, it was a bit like a marriage - "for better or for worse"... I would never shoot a horse because it didn't serve it's purpose (for me) anymore. Everyone has their own circumstances and opinions on this. But I view my horse as a friend and family member, and feel compelled to do absolutely everything in my power and means for him, since he can't do it for himself. 

PM me for support, I am here for ya, and am happy to listen to your ongoing updates etc, and I can share mine as well.

By the way, with regards to contacting Roger's current clients - Kate Lukas, eventer, is listed as a client. I contacted her, and she said he is brilliant. 
You may need to also recognise if you contact these high level equestrian people, that they may not want to give details of any problems their horses may have...for obvious reasons...


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## dozzie (7 September 2010)

Sugarcubes said:



			Hey Ducktails, 

Bravo, high five, well done!....you're doing absolutely the right thing. Your 6 year old mare deserves a chance. Ask any horsey person, and they'll tell you a story of a horse they knew that had been written off by vets - and it came back into full work again. I truly hope your decision on her life does not become tainted by the 100-60% insurance conundrum, although I am sure it won't, as you seem like a genuine caring person. 

I don't have an outcome to give to you yet, but you know I have gone the exact same route as you...I am doing everything to the letter regarding what Roger Meacock advised. Feet have been rebalanced, and they will require another shoeing or two to get them going in the right direction. 

Regarding farriery: I consistently used the same top class farrier from my gelding being a 3y.o. - up until May this year (he's now 5). In May, my boy moved to a new yard where I was not allowed to use my tried & true farrier - I had to use the one on the yard. After a couple of shoeings by this new guy, my horse's feet were growing very long in the toe, and flattening out and becoming wider (before they were always compact, short and strong). It was since the new farrier started shoeing him, that problems arose. Simultaneously though, the new "pro" rider was forcing my horse to do trot and canter lateral work (the horse was clearly having difficulty with it, and having violent explosive tantrums)...so I am not sure if it was the premature lateral work in a young horse, or the farriery that caused / or precipitated the PSD. (That's if it even is PSD??, as I also did not have MRI done due to exorbitant cost, plus the insurance company were being arsey about the investigations). 

Here's the article that seabsicuit2 was referring to... (you need to login) 
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10775

I do now wonder if an MRI would show anything in my horse's legs. In any case, I am doing everything for him, he's just a sweetheart, and I would do anything for him. When I took him on, it was a bit like a marriage - "for better or for worse"... I would never shoot a horse because it didn't serve it's purpose (for me) anymore. Everyone has their own circumstances and opinions on this. But I view my horse as a friend and family member, and feel compelled to do absolutely everything in my power and means for him, since he can't do it for himself. 

PM me for support, I am here for ya, and am happy to listen to your ongoing updates etc, and I can share mine as well.

By the way, with regards to contacting Roger's current clients - Kate Lukas, eventer, is listed as a client. I contacted her, and she said he is brilliant. 
You may need to also recognise if you contact these high level equestrian people, that they may not want to give details of any problems their horses may have...for obvious reasons...
		
Click to expand...

Blimey! I used Roger for my dog. He is definitely NOT a cowboy.

  My mare was diagnosed with PSD and KS last year. Previously diagnosed with SI. So pretty broken really. But i swear she is sound as a pound now. Ok I know she wont do big things but maybe I need Roger to help re feet and teeth.They have never been considered.But they are part of the whole picture.


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## Mike007 (7 September 2010)

Upper suspensory problems,now theres a subject and a half. Why do we see so much of it these days. Well ,the stock answer is because modern methods have allowed us to detect and diagnose it. The problem is that even the diagnosis is frequently suspect.It is suggested that it has always been common,but we failed to detect/diagnose it.I cannot accept that. Consider the care and attention that old school trainers and horsemen gave to their horses,if it had been there,they would have noticed.  
    I am inclined to agree with Roger meacocks position regarding identifying the root causes of the ligament damage,to enable natural healing to occur. There is precious little point in any form of treatment if the cause is still occuring. However this presupposes that we are prepared to accept that there is an external cause,other than a genetic weakness and inability to cope with the stress of training/competition. Or in other words we have to be prepared to consider that we have got it wrong. As a few examples of factors that have changed over the last 30 years. Consider Horsewalkers,constant turning particularly if there is a gripping surface such as rubber. All the twisting load is transmitted up the leg to the hock. What about our use of studs? Even the smallest ponyclub pony seems incomplete these days without eight of them . What does this do to the foots natural requirement to twist on the ground. School surfaces ,and peoples continual use of them,often without the horse being fairly hacked out for weeks on end. 
    If one is not prepared to consider these posibilities then the idea of a surgical fix would seem logical.But personaly,I believe that the attrition to the ligaments is cumulative and due to many of our accepted modern practices. If the horse is relatively young and one is prepared to honestly reevaluate some aspects of our methods,nature can repair an awfull lot. 
    There are some aspects of Roger Meacocks web site that make me go
    As soon as Radionics is mentioned for example. But then again its a bit like witchcraft(or modern medecine). If you dont give the patient some fancy magical explanation ,they are less likely to swallow the simple truth that nature is the only thing that heals anything.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (8 September 2010)

if you can afford to, i think i would go with what R says and give it one last go....then you know you tried everything and it doesnt sound like your girl is in agony, so worth the extra time safe in the knowledge she is reasonably happy with a good quality of life whilst you try.

i hope it all works out for you and her xxx


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## misterjinglejay (8 September 2010)

Before I got him, my lad had 10k of xrays etc, and was still no better (looked like stringhalt). Got the dentist to him and a good chiro for a couple of sessions and now we have a lovely genuine horse, whose sound and happy and cost us nothing to 'buy'!


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## Tempi (8 September 2010)

Yes vets can definately get it wrong.  My horse was out on loan and she went lame (never been lame in her life) - the vet had scans and x rays done and nothing was found so he said she needed 6 months box rest! At this point i stepped in and said i wanted to see her (as she was on loan i hadnt wanted to interfer before).  When i saw her i immediately saw that her front feet were totally different shapes and she was standing over at the knee - something that she had never done before.  I took her to my farrier and after 4hrs of corrective shoeing (in one session!) she walked away from my farrier sound.  I actually lodged a complaint with the vet who had treated her and his response was 'he thought her feet should be like that as he didnt know the horse' - surely if you can find nothing else wrong with a horse and they have odd sized feet and are over at the knee this would indicate a further investigation into the shoeing.....


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## BBH (8 September 2010)

I would give her every chance given she's such a young mare. IMO you've spent so much anyway and extra push is neither here no there.

I had Sue Dyson investigate my horses lameness and whilst I accept she is a genious in her field I came out frazzled with scientific explanation and had to rely on my own vet to put the diagnosis in laymans terms.

Sometimes people like Sue are scientists wanting logical conclusions to everything and sometimes things don't have to be so complicated.

If it was me I'd definitely give Roger a chance.


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## Cozrin (8 September 2010)

I find this fasinating. My horse has just been diagnosed with a hind suspensory problem and he is going back to the vets next week to be re-scanned. They discussed surgery for him. He injured bith FRONT suspensories last year in a fall eventing (I think) and was treated with shockwave therapy and box rest. I have done all the things the vet advised and have bought him back to work slowly. I have had physio as well. He has been fully fit and going wonderfully. Then he I pulled him up at an event as he didnt feel right and now he is lame behind. Went to the vets and told it is unlucky that he has done the hind suspensory but now Im beginning to wonder! I have moved yards and he has had a new farrier that I wasnt impressed with so he is being shod by a new farrier today. Seriously beginning to think about all the options and whether I can aviod the surgery which I wanst keen on in the first place!
Thanks for posting all of this.

I wish you the best of luck with your horse. If you can try everything then I would, at least then you know you have tried everything.


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## salmon001 (8 September 2010)

i think it sounds like you really want to give you horse another chance, i have seen the difference getting the hoof balance, teeth and back correct can make. one vet tried to diagnose a friends horse with navicular when really all she had was a sore back from a too closly fitted saddle.

one thing i would say though when you get her back into work choose the sorrect saddle of her back will go down hill again
http://www.balanceinternational.com/  these are the best people to talk to once she is right xx


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## ihatework (8 September 2010)

My humble opnion is that the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of the two extreme opinions you have received.

Sue Dyson writes off many horses. She is a very experienced vet and I think you do have to take her opinion seriously, in that at the moment you have a lame horse, incapable of performing to any level, on your hands.

I would say do not completely dismiss this and swing to the opposite end of the scale. 

That said, I wouldn't write your horse off just yet. But I do think that if you want a horse with these type of problems to come right/more right to have a purpose then you will have to be patient.

In your shoes I would do the following:
a) out in field for a year minimum
b) address teeth and foot balance pronto
c) bring back into work slowly and carefully, with lots of hacking and long/low work, completely re-evaluate your training to ensure you give your horse the best chance
d) be careful of the surfaces you work on. Deep surfaces are especially bad for horses prone to hock and back pain.

I've got a 6yo with similar issues to yours (although in a much lesser scale, he went to Rossdales and was no where near written off thankfully) yet I am playing it ultra safe with him to give him the best chance of a full competitive future ahead


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## Kenzo (8 September 2010)

You've spent a lot of money so far which has not resolved things, if they can be, so providing she's not in pain, that can't be relieved etc and you can give her time, they way I look at it is why the hell not, give it a go, what have you got to loose, you've already been told (in the eyes of the vet) just don't get your hopes up.

Hope it all works out, good luck.


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## dieseldog (8 September 2010)

I have read this guys website before and he reminds me of an American Evangelical Preacher.

As apparently he has cured many horses who have returned to full work I would be trying to contact some of the owners and to find out how that worked out for them.

My opinion of him is pruely based on his website, but that is how he wants to portray himself.


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## KPM (8 September 2010)

Yes, vets really can get it wrong.  Trust me on that one. 

Echo others.  I think its worth the shot with a second opinion...if you can afford it and the horse isn't in iminent pain of course.  I am so glad I trused my gut with my mare.  Trust yours too.

Finegrs crossed xx


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## Rana (8 September 2010)

Yep, vets can get it wrong.  The horse my OH rides was written off - he had a stifle op (owner is not clear on the details so I have no idea what the problem actually was!), and was still lame afterwards, bucking when ridden etc.  Ok, he's not in masses of work now, but OH rides him 3 days a week - usually long hacks with lots of hill work, plenty of trotting and cantering.  He tries to jump him once a fortnight or so (up to approx 2' which is OH and horses limit at the mo!), and pops over the XC jumps in the gallop fields for fun.  Horse has a slightly unusual movement, but is comfortable enough to do all that.  If the owner had listened to the first vet, the horse would be a field ornament now.

My old pony came up lame one day, age 33.  Swollen foreleg.  Called vet, thinking that was going to be it.  Vet diagnosed tendonitis, bute, cold hose, keep her in, see what happened, should recover.  Another vet was out for something else 3 days later, so he checked her over for me too.  He diagnosed check ligament, chuck her out if sound call them if she went lame again.  She was happily hooning round the field before I had her PTS age 37, having done her other check ligament in the meantime!  We had no scans done, didn't really treat it other than a bit of bute, and she was perfectly sound til the day she died (unrelated).

Current horse came up 3/10 lame on a circle a few years ago, age 25.  She has an old tendon injury from before I bought her, so I assumed that had flared up again.  I retired her, as she was sound enough in the field.  Changed farriers last year, who put some special shoes on her (aluminium racing plates with a rubber bonded sole).  Horse was immediately sound again, and she came back into work (I thought she'd like hacking about a bit, just 10 mins walking or so....she decided she didn't so she's retired again!).  But she's still sound.  The difference a farrier can make!

Old polo pony I used to look after - 2 swollen legs, history of tendon problems.  Vet looked and said "at her age, she's a field ornament or PTS".  I gave her the best part of a year off, tried again the next year, she stayed sound for 2 more seasons.  And even after that, she was sound enough for stick+ball/slow chukkas.

Anyway, the point of my ramblings, is that scans/xrays/surgery aren't the be all end all.  Give Roger's treatments a chance.  No personal experience, but if your mare isn't horribly uncomfortable, and is sound enough to potter round a field stuffing her face with grass, she'll have a nice year out and you may just get your horse back at the end of it.


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## Orangehorse (8 September 2010)

Since the horse is still young I agree with the others about giving her a chance, so long as she is not in great pain.  I would turn her out with no shoes though (although keep the feet trimmed) as that would allow the foot to grow how the horse wants it and not how the shoe wants it.  Maybe the correct foot for this horse is not a "pretty foot" but one that grows to support the structures above.

Dr Green and very gentle exercise can work wonders.


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## stilltrying (8 September 2010)

ORANGEHORSE said:



			Since the horse is still young I agree with the others about giving her a chance, so long as she is not in great pain.  I would turn her out with no shoes though (although keep the feet trimmed) as that would allow the foot to grow how the horse wants it and not how the shoe wants it.  Maybe the correct foot for this horse is not a "pretty foot" but one that grows to support the structures above.

Dr Green and very gentle exercise can work wonders.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with the above.

I sent my horse to AHT 2 years ago for loss of performance investigations after a mysterious collapse at an event and then just being stuffy and off afterwards.  My vet suspected sacroiliac, but bonescan showed up absolutely nothing.  one of the cleanest they'd seen. So on further investigation he was diagnosed with suspensory ligament dismitis in both hocks.  Treatment options were discussed etc. but my vet told me that the damage to the hocks my horse had would be seen on pretty much any horse of the same age.  I decided not to treat.

About 18 months ago I took his shoes off - well actually he ripped his fronts off and all of his hoof but that's another story - short story he went barefoot.  All the while I'd had him shod one of his hooves had been really wonky, hoof wall almost went vertically on the inside.  Since taking his shoes off this hoof has continued to change shape and now appears much more syemetrical.  I am not suggestion this was the cause of any of our problems....but I now have a much happier horse.


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## aregona (8 September 2010)

im another one to agree, give her a chance. Ref Bob L, he is not qualified and as he is some way from you take a look at the british dentistry website and find a dentist nearer to you and then if your unsure ask if other people have used them, good luck xx


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## FREESTYLER (8 September 2010)

Yes they can get it wrong for sure.  
Before he went downhill..............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WunOkKWKrsA
assessing...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Tvr_LwBUM
rest..........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq4Nn-UCwBA
finding his feet again!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ijg4xxj54
and here we are today.....!!!...2 years ago  I was told never to ride him again...I just now take each day as it comes xx


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## carthorse (8 September 2010)

Thank you for posting Tania, loved watch Mister.


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## LucyPriory (8 September 2010)

I apologise but I haven't read the whole of this thread.  So sorry if I post in error.

OP enquired if vets ever get it wrong and regarding suspensory damage.

The answer to the first is yes all the time.  The second is I had a horse with long term suspensory damage.  Had it for years.  Regularly scanned to check if it was deteriorating which sometimes it did.  But it never got better.

Then I turned her out onto a track system aka Jamie Jackson's Paddock Paradise. (but a poor man's version).  A few months later she had another scan and we were all gobsmacked to find the injury was healing.  This was YEARS after the original and subsequent injuries and when all vet treatments had failed.

And yes she came fully sound


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## ducktails (8 September 2010)

FREESTYLER said:



			Yes they can get it wrong for sure.  
Before he went downhill..............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WunOkKWKrsA
assessing...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Tvr_LwBUM
rest..........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq4Nn-UCwBA
finding his feet again!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ijg4xxj54
and here we are today.....!!!...2 years ago  I was told never to ride him again...I just now take each day as it comes xx
		
Click to expand...

Freestyler, he is very special :O) lovely 

Everyone.. thank you so much for your replies. I have spoken with my own vet today, who pretty much echo'd what SD had to say. I have asked him to have a look at Rogers website and to come back to me with what he thinks, I have now asked new market for all scans and imaging as all I have is a written report. 

Tomorrows plan is to contact some of Rogers previous customers and also to contact someone like Rockley farm or someone else to advise on barefoot, as if I am turning her away I want to get the feet sorted. I am hoping over the next few weeks to compile as much information as possible to make an informed decision. I will keep you all updated and if I turn away I will start a blog to report our progress or lack of because the most frustrating thing about all of this is trying to find the information and if whatever happens to me and my baby girl can help someone else then I will be happy.

So medals in the post for everyone, I love reading the competition and lesson reports but there is a real fountain of knowledge in this forum and for that, regardless of the outcome I will be eternally grateful.


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## tixi (8 September 2010)

Yes vets can get it sooo wrong. My then 5yo KWPN was lame behind. Very well known large equine practice diagnosed PSD and started shockwave. I was really really not convinced as he looked lame higher up and got Jenny Hall for a second opinion. She was equally unconvinced and suggested a bone scan - 3 chips in his stifle! Surgery at Rossdales and sound horse. Go with your gut instinct!


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## Sugarcubes (9 September 2010)

Statitistical evidence that they do get it wrong!! 

Vets were asked to evaluate a horse for lameness - 

"When lameness was scored after a full lameness evaluation
and selecting each limb as lame or not using the AAEP lameness
scale, our evaluators (vets with an average of 18.7 years experience) were in agreement 72.9% of the time overall, 76.2% for the forelimbs and 69.5% for the hindlimbs. " 

28-30% of the time, vets do not agree with each other on lameness - very interesting! 

The full article is here: 
http://caliban.ingentaselect.co.uk/fstemp/1daeae352814d7707049c7d354c77b4f.pdf

Plus see this article: Thoroughbred "I Want Revenge" Recovering Well from Ligament Injury - http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=16528


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## LucyPriory (9 September 2010)

See other similar thread for fuller story but the horse in the video was on the way to the inside of a tin can about 18 months ago.  http://danceswithgrace.blogspot.com/2010/09/six-weeks-round-up.html


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## bluespace (21 October 2010)

Terri, Just wondered if you could let me know what conculsion you came to as I am in exactly the same position you were in. Horse has not yet seen Roger Meacock but he is in my area in a month and he assures me there is a good chance the horse can get back to competition. It is very difficult as you prepare yourself for the worst following vets conclusion then Roger comes along and puts everything 'up in the air'. Like you if there is a chance then I will give him the time - you just don't know who to believe. Perhaps you could PM me.

Thanks


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## BeckyD (21 October 2010)

I've just read this nearly 2 months after having my horse PTS with severe damage to hind suspensories (plus SI issues, back pain we couldn't seem to fix, and intermittent undiagnosed front limb lameness), and feeling sick that I'd not tried this Roger Meacock.

You've got nothing to lose, really, by trying him out (other than money).  

I *think* my horse's suspensories were too far gone.  I'm not going to sleep for months now  

Good luck.  Please keep us posted.


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## bluespace (21 October 2010)

I'm really sorry if I've caused you sleepless nights BeckyD. Please don't feel bad I think there are a lot of people who are very sceptical about what can be done and it sounds as if your horse had several issues going on. 

I guess you are right I have nothing to lose - I just would like to find out as much as I can beforehand. I would be amazed if he can help as the horse is so wrong - but I think I will go and listen to what he hs to say and take it from there.


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## Sugarcubes (21 October 2010)

Hi Bluespace, I've gone through exactly the same situation. 

You'll be able to view my previous posts on the situation with my Hanoverian 5 year old - diagnosed with PSD in all 4 legs in early Sept, Newmarket recommended to put him down. I was horrified. I did lots of research while he was still there (they were awaiting my decision). I felt it best to take more time to research things (I couldn't make a snap decision about my baby's life, I didn't feel it was my right to take that away from him). 

So, I brought my horse home - to a new home that only involved grass and more grass, and 24-7 outdoor living. Roger Meacock came out to see him, 2nd week in Sept 2010 (it feels like ages ago)...and said this horse will be fine - give him 6 months out in the field. He also said his pelvis was out of alignment (he fixed it), and said his foot balance was all wrong (that's been sorted over the last two shoeings), and said to get his teeth sorted asap. 
I've done everything he said to the letter. 

I went to visit my horse today, brought him in for some grooming and lovin' - he looks brilliant - he doesn't even look like he's been off work!! He is still solid muscle, and has actually filled out quite a bit - his shoulders have broadened and his neck has gotten wider, and his coat is glossy. He looks spectacularly well!! His feet look great, he's completely sound, and very happy. I know he'll be fine. 

The plan is to leave him out until about Feb/March, then will get him reassessed by Roger Meacock. What I can say now, is that my horse looks completely sound and healthy. The yard owner doesn't believe that there is anything wrong with him! ) and things can only get better. 

Trust your gut, give your beloved horse a chance, and keep us up to date on your progress. 

Good luck
x


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## ducktails (23 October 2010)

Becky, Don't let this bother you as we are no where near there yet. I am getting my mare's suspensories re scanned by my local vets and compared to all the images we have from new market in the next couple of weeks. We are almost 6 months of grass turnout now and I am hoping that there is some improvement and not the other way.. I followed your posts though and I know what a battle you had for a long time with your boy there are no certains with what I am doing and there is a good chance I will end up having to make the worst decision anyway :O(

Bluespace.. I don't really know what to say, I am a person that likes black and white I have struggled with getting my head around going against vets advice but i am now hoping to prove them wrong... 

Roger Meacock talks sense, common sense... I don't think you need to get him out tho, just make sure your horses feet are balanced and the teeth are done by someone decent, get a great physio on your side. Roger came out and said exactly the same to me as her did to sugar cubes and also said pelvis was out etc but a few things bothered me, he didnt ask to watch my mare walk and he is not an equine vet.. My own vets are not fans of his but I am not fair enough down the line to comment really and to be fair it will be bias anyway because lets face it, if my horse comes sound i'll love him and if I end up having her put down i'll most likely think it was all a load of.. 

However like I said earlier, it is of course not a load of.. it is common sense. I don't know your horses story but I guess it is all on a very individual basis. I think there is a place for both the vets and the less conventional treatments and of course time is a great healer..

I will keep you updated and let you know what the scans say.

x


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## catembi (23 October 2010)

Yes, vets can get it wrong.  I spent £5.5k of my & my insurance company's money trying to find why Adrian was so sluggish, including initial vets, 8 days at Rossdales & a more upmarket vets.  1st vet...spavins.  Rossdales...NO spavin - he's got PSD.  Upmarket vets...no idea.  Horse was treated for spavin & PSD which made NO difference; all 3 vets said PTS / perhaps he's just not the horse he was / perhaps you're completely insane, you batty old woman.

[With the help of everyone on here, we found out that it was actually EPSM & he is now happily employed at a trekking centre run by a lady who's an EPSM specialist.]

The point being that these hi-tech tests 'diagnosed' spavin (or not, depending on the vets) AND PSD, but treating them made f-all difference cos it wasn't the root cause.  And TBH, I was competing BS & BD most w'ends, so show me a horse in full work & competing a lot which DOESN'T have anything at all on scans & x-rays?

I really hope you get your horse right...everything crossed.


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## hrhmika (23 October 2010)

I have come across Roger Meacock while have my horses done by Bob Livock and i have a lot of time for him. Bob Livock has a fantastic repuation as a dentist and has a lot of respect for Roger, from knowing Bob he is not the sort of person to rate any old person. I have seen Roger at work as I was at Talland and Pammy really does swear by him and comes out dancing the morning after one of his treatments, he knows what he is talking about it and if you can give your mare the chance! As long as she is have more good days than bad days then its right to give her chance. I would also add a vote for carniosacral therapy that helps stimulate the bodies natural healing systems, but as R said you need to get everything else straigh first. I have too cases where the vets have not felt they could help anymore and my craniosacral lady has helped. One that punctured his hind suspensary I was told would just be the worlds most expensive lawnmower for the rest of his life, I got this lady in and them gave him a year of Dr Green, he is now learning flying changes! the other had a solid fluid mass on his knee that they could not op on for various reasons so said leave it, again i got her in and its nearly gone!! Its worth a try. Vets have their place, i have so much respect for my vets they are brilliant and realistic, but there are other things out there as well. Good luck and keep us all posted. Even if it does not work at least you can say you gave her everychance possible.x


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## Bryndu (23 October 2010)

Hi,
Re the vets can get things wrong - yes and can't we all!
My TB did a wonderful job with a back suspensory when we cantering around a field and he put his back leg down a rabbit hole which opened up underneath him.
We had a cintagraph which showed he also had massive damage to superficial gluteal muscle, biceps and gluteal fascia - in other words his bum muscles and ligaments.
The vet was superb -he said you have two options:
1. Turn him away for 12 months after 4 weeks of massage on his bum and then start road work and see what happens. He said there was not much point having another cintagraph 'cause if he was sound he was fixed!
2. Have him PTS
I went for option 1, and after 12 months he was fine. He never jumped again because his back muscles never really recovered sufficiently to land over a fence, but he changed career and went to AM dressage and he NEVER had a problem with the supensory ligament again. He lived to 32.
If you go for the first option, I would also now recommend Bowen on the muscles above 'cause they will probably be in a bit of stress.
Good luck.
Bryndu


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## christine48 (23 October 2010)

If you can afford to I'd give Roger a chance. At least for your own peace of mind you will know you've tried everything. I know if it was me and I had her put down now on Sue Dyson's advice there would always be that niggle of doubt at the back of my mind- should I have gone with Roger's advice and given her another chance.
 Good luck with what ever you decide. Keep us posted


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## HopesnDreams (23 October 2010)

OMG someone sent me this link because last Dec my Cob was diagnosed with damage in both hind Suspensory ligaments and Collateral damage in his fore offside leg.  He had X-rays, Nerve blocks, Bone Scans and still Sue had no idea what was going on 100% so I opted for the MRI scan on his fore leg so I knew exactly, what I was informed was the worst damaged leg and the best option for recovery.  I never really was told what was the best recovery option for his hind legs as Sue felt they were nothing compared to the front leg damage.  

We tried 6 months of box rest with a tiny turn out paddock from his stable.  He needed to be allowed to stretch but not allowed to blow!  A horse being a horse, he rested really well considering but he did have his days when he flipped on a circle with me desperately trying to stop him, avoiding the back legs in my face.  

Went back to Sue Dyson AHT for an assessment after 6 months and on the corner he was lame.  Although at this point she was happy for me to hack him out straight lines and advised turning him out for a year to see what our future holds.  

This thread has given me a little bit of hope.  Im no eventer but the thought of being able to perhaps do a little jump now and again would make my life so complete again.  

I shall now keep everything kept crossed.  Please keep me posted.


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## TayloredEq (23 October 2010)

You may as well give it a go.

Just to add my boy had hindlimb psd and I treated him with hydrotherapy. we were given the go ahead to start ridden canter work after 4 months.


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## dibbin (25 October 2010)

Yep, it happens ... friend's vet told her her horse was "depressed" and should be put out in the field - she got taken to the vet hospital that night, was on drips etc for a week because her liver was failing.


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## tash87 (25 October 2010)

If your not sure about the opinion of the vet or just have a doubt get a 2nd opinion - it can't hurt! Vets can get it wrong! My friends horse was lame and the vet told her it was down to a problem with his fetlock - turns out he had fractured his neck!!!! Then the same vet came out for insurance purposes after the horse had been on rest and just coming back into work and told the owner that he needed to be shot then and there! She got a 2nd opinion and they advised that as they hadn't tried all the available options it was insane just to shoot him as they had only tried rest!!


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## louise8667 (2 November 2010)

Someone told me to have a look at this thread as it sounds like I am in a very similar situation to you. My horse has chronic PSD in both hinds as well as SI. I've had 3 years of trying to get him right and have not got anywhere. Vet came out last week to confirm PSD pain has returned and so he is now retired to grass. I am considering having him pts - which breaks my heart.
I have contacted Roger by email fo which he has replied saying that he could come to me for initial assessment and depending on what he finds, if he thinks he can help then probably best if my horse went to them for a months intensive treatment at the cost of £1,200 + vat.
Obviously I am very dubious that I am going to be ripped off. I can't actually find much on the internet of people saying that he has actually cured a horse of such problems, and it worries me that he is not an equine vet.
I really don't know if it best to just call it quits. That money would go a long towards another horse.


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## Sugarcubes (2 November 2010)

Hi Louise, sorry to hear about what you are going through. 

What did Roger say the course of therapy would be if your horse stayed there for one month for treatment? Would your insurer cover the cost? If they will cover it, I think it's worth giving it a go. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than a denerving operation, and will not be as invasive. Can you ask him to provide names of clients who have done something similar - and ask for contact details so you can chat about their experiences / and their horse's outcome after a month of intensive therapy at Roger's. 

On another note, my 5 yr old boy has now been off work for 4 months, and is looking superb. I decided to book an appt with a local vet to watch me trot him up (it's on Friday.), and I'll have the vet do some flexion tests. Fingers crossed that it all goes well. I just want to guage where we are in the recovery. The physical impression he gives is of a completely sound horse, so hopefully that carries through to the vet's exam. I felt it important to get an unbiased opinion of my horse from an equine vet who does not know his past diagnoses / problems. I'll let you all know how that goes.  

Good luck to all of you who are going thru difficult times with your horses...


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## louise8667 (3 November 2010)

He hasn't said yet, hes going to come and assess him where I am when he gets enough clients in the area, as I am a good 4 hours drive away.
The initial assessment is £80 + vat + travel so I happy to pay for that and then once I meet him I shall ask all the questions.
He's already had a faciotomy neurectomy Feb 08 & now it seems that the nerve has regrown, so my insurance claim in well & truely over.
I am worried that because the problem has been going on so long now and also who know what other damage has been done, but he couldn't feel it because of the denerving.
Sounds like you boy is doing well, fingers crossed.


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## pipsqueek (3 November 2010)

My 15yo mare went lame and was diagnosed with hind suspensory desmitis..following op and all summer off was still unsound.  (did not return for follow up as she was by then uninsured and unsound).  After a further 12 months off she appeared sound and I started to hack her out, she was fine.  I didn't want to risk jumping her again and found her a happy hacking loan home last year where she has been sound and happy to date!  Time is a great healer..


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## louise8667 (4 November 2010)

I do agree that time is a good healer - but I gave my boy a full year off, brought him back into work very,very slowly in the Spring of this year. Seemed to be going OK but then there was a steady decline. He was sound when I was well into riding him, but certainly not now. No obvious signs of new injury but he does come sound when suspensories are blocked....
Unfortunately time doesn't always work or at least not in my horses case.


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## Sugarcubes (6 November 2010)

GOOOOOOOD NEWS!!! From PSD & a Death Sentence to - sound and passing a 5 stage vetting... in the space of 4 months. 

My 5 yr old boy just passed a 5 stage vetting. He is completely sound. The vet told me that PSD is "a bull***** diagnosis when they can't find anything else wrong". Actually my boy had the works in Newmarket in Aug - xrays, bone scans of whole body over a course of 4 days, and they could not find any issues at all. On the final day, they diagnosed PSD, the report stated that upon ultrasound examination, that there was "evidence of severe damage to the suspensory ligaments." Only "evidence". No proof. Also, no ultrasound  images were supplied to my vet or to me to back up the diagnosis. Also, a bill for £4,500 for all the tests that didn't find anything. Funnily enough, they also stated in the report that the horse was lazy in his work. No guff...he was actually lame at the time. 

*So, to recap the timelines:*

*Mid Aug 2010* - diagnosed in Newmarket with severe PSD in all 4 legs - recommendation to do the denerving operation, or put him down immediately

*Late Aug 2010* - I brought him back from clinic and put him straight out in a field, where he has been living out 24-7. Out in field with minimal interation with people until mid-Oct. 

*Mid Oct 2010* - brought him into yard, loose schooled him, he was a happy, joyful maniac, with absolutely no signs of lameness.

*Early Nov 2010* - I call out an unbiased vet, who does not know the history, to ask for a lameness assessment and 5 stage vetting. The horse passed with flying colours. Subsequently I told the vet that my horse had been diagnosed with PSD, and he said "it's a bullshit diagnosis, there is nothing wrong with this horse". He said they call it PSD with they can't find anything else wrong. 

Now, I am shocked that the Newmarket clinic told me to put him down. I told a couple of friends, and they were equally appalled and said I should phone the clinic and tell them they should be ashamed of themselves. 

Anyway, I wanted to update you all, so that you know the full story, the beginning, middle and end of my experience with PSD. Please give your horses a chance, don't take as gospel what the so-called "expert vets" say. DO trust your gut instinct, and DO get a second or even third opinion. I am so glad I trusted my instincts, my horse would be in horse heaven if I had listened to Newmarket's advice. Now, I have a sound, happy horse, ready to start working again, after passing a 5 stage yesterday. YIPPPPPEEEE!!! What a huge relief. Just don't give up hope. And feel free to contact me / PM me. I am happy to support anyone else going through what I went through.


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## MegaBeast (6 November 2010)

Only thing I would say with PSD is that generally the horse will come sound with rest but it will recur with sustained work in a lot of cases unless it has been treated in the interim.  

But for those with happy stories that's great, really pleased for you 

My mare has/had PSD in her off fore, first diagnosed in August, has had shockwave treatment and been on box rest since.  Started walking five weeks ago and is going to start turnout again next week.  Fingers crossed it doesn't recur.


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## Sugarcubes (8 November 2010)

Sorry, I forgot to mention some other bits and pieces in the recovery timelines above, it wasn't just rest that sorted out my boy. 

1) Roger Meacock came out, and gave his pelvis an adjustment - his pelvis was unbalanced / uneven

2) the foot balance has been addressed & corrected in the past 3 shoeings, he was described by Newmarket as being "long in the toe" at the time of his diagnosis - this was down to using a farrier that was new to me & my boy, considered mandatory by the livery yard we were at. 
Since my boy has been living out in the field, he has been brought in every 4 weeks by my old farrier for shoeing, and his feet are looking great again, much smaller, more compact, strong and more upright. 

The foot balance correction and the adjustment of the pelvis PLUS the field rest is what has worked in my particular case. The teeth are next to be done, before he gets a bit in his mouth, this will be sorted this week.


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## TheMule (8 November 2010)

Have had 2 written off at Newmarket.

1 had kissing spines, collateral in front feet and 2 suspensories. Was given shockwave and 1 1/2 years off out in the field. Still lame at the end of it so was PTS

1 had done 3 suspensories and had bony changes in front feet. Given 1 year off out in field. Is back in much more gentle work, sound but has lost a lot of athletic ability eg he cant jump much anymore as it obviously causes him discomfort.


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## Lulup (9 November 2013)

Is there any update available on what the outcome was in this case?


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## khalswitz (10 November 2013)

When it comes to tendon damage etc, time is a great healer. With year-Long insurance periods everyone is in a rush to sort the problem now, and do everything to treat it now. However a year, 18months, 2 years at grass can make all te difference.

Yes, vets can get it wrong. My old horse was terribly misdiagnosed, and the vet in question treated me like an idiot she I questioned her. On his being pts five months later I found out from another vet at the practice that half of the background story to the injury wasn't even in the history - she didn't think it was an injury to the shoulder/back, she thought it was an abscess, or possibly knee arthritis, and therefore included nothing I'd said about out incident in the quicksand which caused the injury!!

Refuse to use her now.


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## pinklilly (10 November 2013)

An interesting post, my then 5yo was diagnosed with PSD in all four legs just over a year ago.

Does anyone know what the outcome for the OP's mare was?


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## robthecob (10 November 2013)

pinklilly said:



			An interesting post, my then 5yo was diagnosed with PSD in all four legs just over a year ago.

Does anyone know what the outcome for the OP's mare was?
		
Click to expand...

How very weird and emotional to read that back. I am Ducktails under a different name after losing my log in.

That was really emotional to read my first post back, such a dark desperate time. An update for those that are interested though  I have just got back from a 2hr ride on a very sound and healthy Jen 

I'm not sure how much I have posted about everything and honestly It feels so long ago but to keep it short there were no miracles with Jen, I turned her away and she came sound so I bought her back into work very slowly. We had a good couple of years of doing dressage and having lots of fun but I felt she wasn't up to schooling about a year ago so "retired" her to a hack and she looks and feels great. I treat her no differently to any other horse on the yard.. We even did bits of teeny tiny x country last year. So I guess I consider it a happy ending, it's been a struggle with tears and worry along the way but I have learnt how to read my girl and listen carefully to what she is ttrying to tell me.

In terms of what may help others, I found the most amazing physio. She was sympathetic to my girls needs and always on my side. While I was still schooling I had her sacroilliac injected twice and I 100% believe this helped. It seems quite an old-school thing to get done but I pushed my vets to do it and they agree it definately made a difference. I also took her barefoot and I believe this has made a difference even just from the fact that I addressed what I was feeding (I think we also had pain related ulcers).

I haven't been on here for ages and it took me by surprise to see that post resurrected, if you have anu specific questions feel free to pm me  .... Oh and I never used Roger again nor did I travel 3 hours to his dentist... 

Terri


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## robthecob (10 November 2013)

Some photos of lady muck herself.. 
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/terridainter/Mobile Uploads/IMG_60483368912265.jpeg
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/terridainter/Mobile Uploads/IMG_60505554245516.jpeg
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/terridainter/Mobile Uploads/IMG_60496747971102.jpeg
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/terridainter/Mobile Uploads/IMG_60516199204011.jpeg


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## robthecob (10 November 2013)

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/terridainter/Mobile Uploads/IMG_60516199204011.jpeg

















Hopefully that works :-/


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## TarrSteps (10 November 2013)

robthecob said:



			How very weird and emotional to read that back. I am Ducktails under a different name after losing my log in.

That was really emotional to read my first post back, such a dark desperate time. An update for those that are interested though  I have just got back from a 2hr ride on a very sound and healthy Jen 

I'm not sure how much I have posted about everything and honestly It feels so long ago but to keep it short there were no miracles with Jen, I turned her away and she came sound so I bought her back into work very slowly. We had a good couple of years of doing dressage and having lots of fun but I felt she wasn't up to schooling about a year ago so "retired" her to a hack and she looks and feels great. I treat her no differently to any other horse on the yard.. We even did bits of teeny tiny x country last year. So I guess I consider it a happy ending, it's been a struggle with tears and worry along the way but I have learnt how to read my girl and listen carefully to what she is ttrying to tell me.

In terms of what may help others, I found the most amazing physio. She was sympathetic to my girls needs and always on my side. While I was still schooling I had her sacroilliac injected twice and I 100% believe this helped. It seems quite an old-school thing to get done but I pushed my vets to do it and they agree it definately made a difference. I also took her barefoot and I believe this has made a difference even just from the fact that I addressed what I was feeding (I think we also had pain related ulcers).

I haven't been on here for ages and it took me by surprise to see that post resurrected, if you have anu specific questions feel free to pm me  .... Oh and I never used Roger again nor did I travel 3 hours to his dentist... 

Terri
		
Click to expand...

Great to read, even if you didn't get a miracle cure.

The fact is, so much of the time, it really is just about boring, unsexy management.  Rest, rehab; sympathetic, ongoing, consistent care; having a good support system; tailoring needs and demands to the individual horse . . . just that day to day, thinking stuff people have done as long as horses have lived with man. Medical intervention can do a lot, as can alternative therapies, but we are always only going forward, never back.  You can make things better but you can never put them back the way they were.  This doesn't mean the horse can't have a long, happy and productive career - quite the opposite!  But you have to keep at it, listening to the horse.  

I know the attraction of a person or a procedure or a machine that can make it all okay but it rarely works that way.  And that's okay. In fact, that's life. 

Well done for your mare.


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## pinklilly (10 November 2013)

Thanks for the update, love the water pic!

Mines sound but not yet in work.  Need a boot up the backside to get on with it as moved yards a couple of weeks ago to get the hacking that I need.  My horse is also now barefoot and is managed for lgl and having sorted out the feet he's surpassed the vets expectations to go from 'unlevel will be normal for him and probably just able to light hack' to @should be fine to be an allrounder and jump if we take care only to ride on good surfaces'.


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## the_nag (10 November 2013)

great to have a update! interesting read.


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## cronkmooar (10 November 2013)

Sue Dyson diagnosed my horse with sacroiliac problems and a broken (but healed) pelvis.

She told me that he would never come back to work and that it would be better to have him PTS there and then.

She positively exploded when I suggested that I would be looking for alternative opinions and wrote the most insulting letter to my vet.

The horse at the time was 15.

I got a second opinion.  The horse came back into work - yes he was not perfect but he would hack for miles and we had great fun together.

About 5 years after her diagnosis he was reserve for Olympia in a veteran final, after winning his age section in a class of 45.

I'm just going to bring him in now ............... he is 27 years old.  I retired him at 25 - NOT because I needed to but because I felt he deserved a rest and to be treated like a king for the rest of his days as he did so much for me and gave me some of the best days of my life.

Whilst I do not dispute Ms Dyson is a clever lady, she is not god.

Go with your gut, and the very best of luck to you


ETA - what a muppet - didn't realise it was an old thread, but the info might be useful to someone !


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## christine48 (10 November 2013)

I've heard that Sue Dyson is very much doom & gloom. If you can afford it I'd definitely give it a go. If you don't you will always wonder 'what if?'


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