# access/hacking in Scotland



## dollymix (23 July 2013)

Hi folks, hoping you might be able to clear something up for me.

My Parents-in-Law have a house on the West Coats of Scotland, close to Turnberry. They are always asking us to go and visit for extended periods, but I am put off as I don't like leaving my horse for long. 

One of their neighbours has very kindly said I would be welcome to put my horse in their field for a week or so. However, I was pondering about riding out.

I know access is different from England, but how exactly does it work? Is land 'open' to anyone, i.e. open a gate and on you go, or do you need landowners permission first? I obviously dont want to go and upset any private landowners!!

What about the beach? (Turnberry beach - I know there is a yard near Maidens which ride on the beach and aroudn Culzean Castle)


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## MotherOfChickens (23 July 2013)

Hiya
don't know that area specifically. Officially, you can go anywhere you fancy as long as you don't cause any damage (with restrictions). Unofficially, many areas (forestry) are still locked up or unaccessible and the land owners might/not have good reason for this. 
http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/

just to add, I wouldn't ride anywhere that I didn't have permission to. Hacking where I am is great anyway so no need to go around someone's fields. You could always contact the BHS, look for riding in that area.


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## RLS (23 July 2013)

As Mother of Chickens says - officially walkers/ cyclists/ horse riders have the right of "responsible access to most land and inland water". In reality you will still find some locked gates. But if the ground conditions are good (i.e.fairly dry, for a change!) and you will not damage crops or disturb livestock by doing so,  you may ride around the edge of fields without asking landowners permission. There is a lovely ride along the Maidens beach and into/ around Culzean. I think Culzean did ask for riders to buy permits at one time, not sure if they still do. I never bought a permit, and was never asked for one by any of the rangers! You could try contacting Shanter Riding Stables and ask them about hacking around there.
I have ridden on Turnberry beach too. That was quite a few years ago, but think you should have no problem with riding there.


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## lachlanandmarcus (23 July 2013)

You can ride anywhere provided it is (I) not through someones private garden (ii) not through crops - which includes grass hay fields once grass is ankle height or above (ii) not interfering with the owners getting on with their normal business (ii) not damaging the surface

Essentially the best plan to not annoy people is to stick to farm tracks rather than off piste-ing unless you've checked eg that the stubble field doesn't have a grass crop undersown and not ride on soft areas when ground conditions aren't suitable. 

NB because of the wide general access, unlike bridleways down south, you take access as you find it, there may be risks eg up here a horse was killed by its hoof getting trapped in a lipped open cross track drain and breaking leg : the landowners do not have to make it horse safe so you have to assess the risks yourself and ride where and how appropriate. It makes for a lot more available riding but you do need to research and also have a horse that can cope with what it may meet eg Fastrac tractor. 

Also farmers can if they wish padlock a field up, you just have to go round it.


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## Jenni_ (23 July 2013)

I go with the mantra that if a gate is open, farmers don't mind you in. Gate is shut, respect their wishes and keep out. Even if the gate isn't padlocked. 

We can basically go anywhere we want up here as long as we don't cause damage and its not a garden (basically) but its all about respect.


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## MagicMelon (23 July 2013)

Jenni_ said:



			I go with the mantra that if a gate is open, farmers don't mind you in. Gate is shut, respect their wishes and keep out. Even if the gate isn't padlocked. 

We can basically go anywhere we want up here as long as we don't cause damage and its not a garden (basically) but its all about respect.
		
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Hmm you can go anywhere, but personally I ask permission from the farmer before riding through his fields.  I've recently moved to where I am now, and unfortunately the land round me is used by about 8 tenant farmers so thats a lot of people to ask (and some of them seem like really miserable ones...).  Am about to request permission from a landowner to ride round his massive wind farm, I forsee he may be a b*gger about it though - going by his huge sign at the end of the track to it "horse riders MUST seek permission"... from speaking to the locals, he'll probably try and charge me to ride round it - yeah right!


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## FfionWinnie (23 July 2013)

I can't bear to ride round fields as I'd not be happy if someone rode round mine. I also don't go up private roads belonging to two neighbours because one, I know he won't like it and the other I'd feel I need to ask and I am worried if he says no it would be awkward!  There is plenty of other riding around here so not a problem anyway. If the neighbour with the field has a horse, ask them  

Beach is fair game I reckon.


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## NeverSayNever (23 July 2013)

wondering what legal right he has to put up or try and enforce that sign too Magic Melon


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## MagicMelon (23 July 2013)

I doubt he has any right to.  I'm hoping its just because there's a gate half way up the entrance track and perhaps he just wants to tell horse riders to close it  But he's very much the type to charge for everything... he wanted to charge us for our water which comes from a well on his land.  Thing is, we (along with other neighbours) have a right to that water and this house has been having water from it since before he was even born...

I imagine he'll want me to pay for a license or something to ride round the wind farm, he'll be told to p*ss off!!  Especially as we have to put up with the bloody things on the horizon (and hear them!), and they make him £10k year each (he has 20 of them on this one farm)...


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## NeverSayNever (23 July 2013)

given other windfarms are even advertised as good hacking i dont think he'd have a leg to stand on to restrict you or charge you, sounds like a nice man, not

http://meag2010.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/rothes-windfarm.pdf


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## jmlima (23 July 2013)

The pamphlet below, courtesy of the BHS Scotland, gives all the information you need in terms of access. It also gives you guidance on what to do in case of a problem with rights of access and provides detailed information on what you can or cannot do. 

http://www.bhsscotland.org.uk/uploads/5/4/5/3/5453271/access_factsheets_june_2010.pdf


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## Miss L Toe (31 July 2013)

people dont seem to like access, I went to see a livery yard with a brand new track which was laid for access to windfarm, and was told "oh no you cant use that road!" use the public roads [ie we want  your cash as long as you keep off our land!]


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## Dry Rot (31 July 2013)

Miss L Toe said:



			people dont seem to like access, I went to see a livery yard with a brand new track which was laid for access to windfarm, and was told "oh no you cant use that road!" use the public roads [ie we want  your cash as long as you keep off our land!]
		
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Isn't the right of access a bit different if it is being exercised commercially?
I don't know but seem to remember this topic came up before.

One thing does occur to me though. August is the start of the deer stalking season. I think I'd ask rather than risk the bullets!

It isn't really a matter of miserable landowners. Sometimes there are very good reasons why those attempting to make a living from the land don't want their activities disturbed. This is also sheep sale time and the flocks will be brought down for sorting. Oh, and grouse shooting soon. More bullets!


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## Miss L Toe (1 August 2013)

Jenni_ said:



			I go with the mantra that if a gate is open, farmers don't mind you in. Gate is shut, respect their wishes and keep out. Even if the gate isn't padlocked. 

We can basically go anywhere we want up here as long as we don't cause damage and its not a garden (basically) but its all about respect.
		
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I dont agree here, very few gates are just "left open", even if they are closed, the land should still be acessible.
In fact farmers should NOT prevent access by padlocking, though I can understand them doing this if rustlers are about. but really this must be rare!
In practice,not many fields are available to horse riders in my experience, in spite of the laws of access.
Another point here, if we want to ask permission, the only way may be to ride up the drive, and in to farmyard, which in itself coul dbe seen as invasion of private area.


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## Miss L Toe (1 August 2013)

Jenni_ said:



			I go with the mantra that if a gate is open, farmers don't mind you in. Gate is shut, respect their wishes and keep out. Even if the gate isn't padlocked. 

We can basically go anywhere we want up here as long as we don't cause damage and its not a garden (basically) but its all about respect.
		
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Moors will be separated with walls and are gated, the gates are always closed to prevent sheep getting on the wrong moor,


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## lachlanandmarcus (1 August 2013)

Dry Rot said:



			Isn't the right of access a bit different if it is being exercised commercially?
I don't know but seem to remember this topic came up before.

One thing does occur to me though. August is the start of the deer stalking season. I think I'd ask rather than risk the bullets!

It isn't really a matter of miserable landowners. Sometimes there are very good reasons why those attempting to make a living from the land don't want their activities disturbed. This is also sheep sale time and the flocks will be brought down for sorting. Oh, and grouse shooting soon. More bullets!
		
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Commercial access is permitted in Scotland under the access act, provided the nature of the activity is identical to that when undertaken privately.

For example a walking group leader could take a group of paying holidaymakers through private land on a track. Or a pony trek leader. However what they couldn't do eg is run a sponsored ride through which involved route marking or officials standing around without the permission of the landowner. Not could they create a nuisance, so that if the numbers were SO great they were interfering with the landowners ability to go about their livelihood, or left lots of rubbish or complained about x y and z, then the landowner could appply to have them (at lest temporarily) banned.

Personally I think there actually should be a numbers restriction on the exercise of free access without asking permission. partly because groups tend to move a lot slower and I have to say are more nosy and intrusive, they feel like a lot more of an invasion of privacy and also cause more damage/litter. And because if they are making money out of ones private property and reducing the enjoyment, which they are, then part of the benefit should come to the owner of the property IMO.


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## Marydoll (4 August 2013)

MagicMelon said:



			Hmm you can go anywhere, but personally I ask permission from the farmer before riding through his fields.  I've recently moved to where I am now, and unfortunately the land round me is used by about 8 tenant farmers so thats a lot of people to ask (and some of them seem like really miserable ones...).  Am about to request permission from a landowner to ride round his massive wind farm, I forsee he may be a b*gger about it though - going by his huge sign at the end of the track to it "horse riders MUST seek permission"... from speaking to the locals, he'll probably try and charge me to ride round it - yeah right!
		
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If its a working wind farm or one being constructed, its for yours and your horses safety, you'll probably be given instruction on traffic you might meet to ensure your horse can cope, my husband puts wind farms up and theyve riders around quite often,but at certain times when things are being done, some of the tracks are off limits to keep everyone safe


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## Miss L Toe (4 August 2013)

In this instance there was no charge to enter the farm, ie that is is not a country park, and anyone should be able to use the track.
It cuts across the farm, has been paid for by others, but that does not make it "commercial" .
"commercial" is a country park charging for access before legislation came in.


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## MagicMelon (4 August 2013)

Dry Rot said:



			Isn't the right of access a bit different if it is being exercised commercially?
		
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But then what land ISN'T used commercially?  Farm land is all commerical, as are wind farms, even forestry commission land is?  So we couldn't hack anywhere then!


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## lachlanandmarcus (4 August 2013)

MagicMelon said:



			But then what land ISN'T used commercially?  Farm land is all commerical, as are wind farms, even forestry commission land is?  So we couldn't hack anywhere then!
		
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Exactly, hence see my post above, the access act is very specific in covering it. personal or commercial use is allowed provided the commercial use is exactly like the personal one in nature. 

And unlike a bridleway in England, the landowner does have the right to go about THEIR business on their land including any tracks without undue interference by access users who are expected to take as they find re the state of tracks and activities going on. That's the flip side of universal access, users have to exercise common sense. 

Closing tracks for safety reasons temporarily in theory I believe require an application to be made, however most users would think it reasonable to do it eg for tree felling or wind farm erection even without this. BUT it does require the owner to behave reasonably, closing as short as possible and not extending it without good reason. Permanent closures will always need an application if the track existed prior to the access act, post the act they can only be closed if that's justified by genuine safety reasons, a completed wind farm would not qualify as far as I could see.


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## Jenni_ (5 August 2013)

Miss L Toe said:



			Moors will be separated with walls and are gated, the gates are always closed to prevent sheep getting on the wrong moor,
		
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I've only really every ridden around here, and we don't really have moors lol! So I suppose that's different. 

Some gates are shut over to obviously be tidy but not bolted/ padlocked. Pop into these. We know really who minds us in and who doesn't. There's one farmer who has a field entrance blocked of with bad bales of straw for about 8 months of the year. He takes them away after its all cut / he's ready to let you in and you can use it then. You could get round them, but again its all about respect. 

Have asked a few farmers about using fields in the past. If they say yes, ride in them a couple of times first and then drop of a bottle of whiskey. Keeps them sweet


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## Mithras (5 August 2013)

I had some difficulties in Midlothian and phoned the officer responsible for access in the local council.  He was less than helpful and had a bit of an attitude about him.  There is an estate with extensive grounds which has barred access to miles of tracks which my neighbour informs me used to be open access 10 years ago and he used to ride in.  Now I know why the estate has done this, its to deter thieves and joyriders.  But I didn't know how to get in touch with the owner and thought the Council's access officer would be able to provide useful guidance.  So I am no further forward with that as the access officer was totally against access or even questioning it.

There is also the issue of Dalkeith Park, which is covered by the exemption that allows access to be barred if it is charged for.  So that's a massive swathe of countryside in an increasingly built up area that is not accessible, and permits are not sold for access to horseriders either.

Have to say I'm not that impressed by the local authority, as they have allowed a garden centre and two hotels to be built, with a massive new housing estate in between, yet have not put in any footpaths or pavements, so you regularly see people walking along the side of a main road, next to cars and lorries whizzing past at 60mph!


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## Miss L Toe (5 August 2013)

Best thing to do is to write a nice letter to the Chief Executive Officer, by name, he will pass it on to the correct department, but the fact it comes via his office is significant.
You should re-iterate what you discussed previously , no emotion, just explain you wish to ride on "the X estate", as in your understanding there is Open Access for responsible riders. Use the BHS Scotland leaflet, or download the information, and include this with the letter. 
He will have to respond.


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