# What on earth can we do about these nasty antis?



## Nancykitt (14 February 2013)

Went out with the drag hunt today and had a fantastic day.
And tonight I see something on facebook - apparently a local 'animal' group (possibly a rescue organisation) has put a posting on, as follows:

'...a fox was murdered by a hunt which consisted of approximately 20 people on horseback in red coats with hounds and horns!! Jesus we are outraged that this is happening on our door step!! IT IS ILLEGAL AND IF ANYONE KNOWS OF THIS HAPPENING AGAIN OR SEES IT please contact the police immediately!! They may say they were drag hunting but that is just a lame cover up for them chasing down adefenceless fox and killing her!!! TOTAL SCUM - sorry we don't normally vent our feelings publicly but this is outrageous!!'

The comments on this post are generally along the lines of how we are all murderous disgusting b***ards who deserve to die, etc etc. One of the members put up a link to the hunt website showing that this has always been a drag hunt, we follow an artificial scent, and so on. It seems that the organisation has used this as a way to get the names of hunt staff, saying that they will be reporting us to the police and RSPCA tomorrow. 

You can tell how thick these idiots are as they refer to the hounds as 'bloodhounds' (they are foxhounds).

I find this so depressing. We can't even drag hunt now without these vile people causing trouble.


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## happyhunter123 (15 February 2013)

These people are vile to the extreme, and also incredibly, incredibly stupid. Maybe get your Masters to write them a polite letter explaining how you hunt, and inviting them to have a tour of the kennels and see an actual days drag hunting. Actually coming face to face (ie show them that you are decent, normal people), and trying to educate the ignorant will do a lot to help.


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## Nancykitt (15 February 2013)

hh123, one of our members has tried explaining what we are about and has even invited them out with us as foot followers. We also posted some stuff about the hunt saying that we were not hunting foxes, etc etc. The response of this group was to delete and ban every one of us. 
Surely they are erring on the wrong side of the law by making false accusations against named individuals? It makes me so angry that these people are threatening us with the police, RSPCA, various 'sabs' groups, local and national press, etc - they must think that they have the 'law' behind them while we can do nothing to defend ourselves against these ridiculous claims. Or can we?


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## maccachic (15 February 2013)

Just goes to show they aren't actually standing up for foxes at all just like to be able to abuse people, you would think a hunt that only drags would be the perfect solution to their so called issues and you would have thought they would be supporting you / using you as an example.

Don't you hate group mentality where people lose the ability to think and reason for themself.


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## happyhunter123 (15 February 2013)

Nancykitt said:



			t makes me so angry that these people are threatening us with the police, RSPCA, various 'sabs' groups, local and national press, etc - they must think that they have the 'law' behind them while we can do nothing to defend ourselves against these ridiculous claims. Or can we?
		
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Let them run to the local press or the RSPCA. They'll be proved wrong-or will they? With every foxhound pack now hunting trails, and telling the public they are laying trails if accused of illegal hunting, what you say could easily be misinterpreted. The public don't really know the difference between a drag hunt and a fox hunt. Red coats and hounds=foxhunting to them. There is incredible ignorance out there!
To many of them, thanks to the antis telling them that we're _all_ breaking the law, drag hunting is the 'cover that the foxhunters always use'.

At the end of the day, that's antis for you (and no, they're not nice, sensible rational people). You just have to deal with them in the most polite, considerate way that you can-don't sink to their level. If you can possibly get an address of the group and have the hunt put it in writing to them (with an invitation), it may help (it looks better and is more believable than posts on FB). The best outcome is that they remove the post and offer an apology-you should ask them to do this.


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## devonlass (15 February 2013)

Nancykitt said:



			You can tell how thick these idiots are as they refer to the hounds as 'bloodhounds' (they are foxhounds).

I find this so depressing. We can't even drag hunt now without these vile people causing trouble.
		
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To be fair I don't think you can determine that someone is a thick idiot because they aren't experts on dog breeds.
I know many people that wouldn't know a bloodhound from a basset hound,doesn't mean they're stupid just not overly interested in dogs


As for the real point of your post (Sorry not meaning to nit pick but that comment came across as kind of condescending),then i agree it is very depressing.

I am as anti hunt as they come,which is why i think finding an alternative like you mention has to be a good thing.

People ruining it does no one any favours,least of all the foxes.

Do they genuinely think you are hunting foxes maybe?? If not then clearly they are far more interested in the drama and attention than they are in fox welfare.

I really hope you find a way to educate them and promote this far more humane form of hunting.


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## Nancykitt (15 February 2013)

devonlass said:



			To be fair I don't think you can determine that someone is a thick idiot because they aren't experts on dog breeds.
I know many people that wouldn't know a bloodhound from a basset hound,doesn't mean they're stupid just not overly interested in dogs


As for the real point of your post (Sorry not meaning to nit pick but that comment came across as kind of condescending),then i agree it is very depressing.

I am as anti hunt as they come,which is why i think finding an alternative like you mention has to be a good thing.

People ruining it does no one any favours,least of all the foxes.

Do they genuinely think you are hunting foxes maybe?? If not then clearly they are far more interested in the drama and attention than they are in fox welfare.

I really hope you find a way to educate them and promote this far more humane form of hunting.
		
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Sorry if it appeared condescending but it wasn't just that they used the term 'bloodhounds', there was then a load of drivel about how bloodhounds are trained to follow an artificial scent but will definitely go for foxes if encouraged, etc. To my mind, that is stupid. Commenting in they way that they have - about several things (including the fact that foxes are gentle creatures who should be fed on quorn) does show that they are 'thick' and as they would like to see me brutally killed I don't think that using such a term is too harsh.


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## Luci07 (15 February 2013)

You can at least report the page to Facebook as incidinary and slanderous...


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## Hunters (15 February 2013)

One has to remember that these people are anti establishment & quite often enjoy the disruption caused to so called Toffs.

It is also worth remembering that apparently 50% of the population are below average intelligence


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## SarahColeman (16 February 2013)

Terrible to hear you are being harassed for merely drag hunting, very unfair. However, fantastic to hear that foxhounds can be trained to follow artificial scent. I had been told it was very difficult to re-train foxhounds to follow such a scent but I may have been misled


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## JanetGeorge (16 February 2013)

SarahColeman said:



			Terrible to hear you are being harassed for merely drag hunting, very unfair. However, fantastic to hear that foxhounds can be trained to follow artificial scent. I had been told it was very difficult to re-train foxhounds to follow such a scent but I may have been misled 

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Heavens - I've seen sabs harrassing BLOODHOUND packs - and they've been bred and trained for hundreds of years to follow a HUMAN scent!

And of course foxhounds CAN be trained to follow an artificial scent - it is just difficult (and the training can be 'forgotten' when instinct takes over and a fox jumps up in front of them!!

Same as training horses really.  You can train a horse from backing onwards to be polite, and calm, and to stop when asked.  And you can do it successfully - UNTIL something it has never seen or experienced - and which is instinctively 'terrifying' to a horse (camels spring to mind ) pops up - then its 'flight' instinct takes over and you're galloping flat out with NO control for at least 500 yards!


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## misterjinglejay (16 February 2013)

Hunters said:



			One has to remember that these people are anti establishment & quite often enjoy the disruption caused to so called Toffs.

It is also worth remembering that apparently 50% of the population are below average intelligence 

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Absolutely agree! Because we are all posh toffs, obviously


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## Nancykitt (16 February 2013)

Sarah, our hounds haven't been 're-trained' as such, it's always been a drag hunt since being formed in the 1950s so they are brought up to follow the scent.

The group on facebook seems to have now removed the postings about the fox being killed, but have a new cover photo featuring a bloke in a comfy chair cuddling a fox (oh please...)
Their 'evidence' for us foxhunting - sorry, fox murdering - seemed to be that there were blokes in red coats with a pack of dogs.
Absolute idiots, but I did have to laugh at the woman who said that if she won the lottery then all the foxes could go and live with her and her cats and they could all eat quorn together because apparently foxes are 'gentle creatures'.

However, the scary bit was that the group named the huntsman (wrongly referring to him as the 'master') as well as the guy who put on the hunt from his family's farm that day. They said that the hounds were kept at this farm (which they're not, they are kept at least 20 miles from there) and there were comments such as 'Not on our patch - we've had enough of you and your bloodsports!' And then 'Let's alert all the sabs!' So I am worried that the sabs are going to turn up at the farm and cause trouble. 

If I decided to make life unpleasant for someone by publishing something on facebook saying that they had burgled a house that day (or similar crime) and I was disgusted at this low-life scum and was going to notify the police, that would clearly be out of order.
But the worrying thing is that these people think that the law is on their side, no matter what.


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## Alec Swan (16 February 2013)

Nancy dear,

those with a modicum of common sense,  since time immemorial,  have been surrounded by idiots.  They've been surrounded by the idiots,  by the brainless,  and by those with no more to offer Society,  than inane drivel.

What on earth do we do?  A good question.  Perhaps we respond to those who seem to have a genuine interest,  and we offer reason and an historic level of support,  and to the idiots (the died in the wool variety),  we do as we would do in the street,  we pass them by.

Alec.


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## MerrySherryRider (16 February 2013)

The problem with Facebook is that any idiot can post on there and probably these posters are just twits talking rubbish. Professional sabs know the difference between drag hunts and fox hunts.

 Unfortunately, until all hunts keep to the law, those hunting legally will be at risk because of the criminal element who spoil it for everyone. If those who don't break the law were to condemn people like the Heythrop, perhaps attitudes would change on both sides. It would also mean that horse people who like hunting within the law could enjoy the sport without the embarrassment of being mistaken for blood sport supporters.


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## Alec Swan (16 February 2013)

horserider said:



			....... If those who don't break the law were to condemn people like the Heythrop, perhaps attitudes would change on both sides....... .
		
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For the thousands of miles that you may well drive,  every year,  and for the very few where you break the speed limit,  and presumably put the lives of others at risk,  do I "Condemn" you?  No.  I see you as human,  and fallible,  and I forgive you your transgression.  I certainly don't judge you,  and neither do I condemn you.  Perhaps you,  in turn could afford others the same courtesy,  unless of course,  you are blame free,  and have never been carried forward by the moment. 

Alec.


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## cptrayes (16 February 2013)

I think you should just put up a posting telling them to go and concentrate on those nasty people who shoot poor defenceless skeet instead


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## Alec Swan (16 February 2013)

Re: What on earth can we do about these nasty antis?

Do about them?  I'm not sure that I actually want to "Do" anything.  I'm finding their ill-informed stupidity,  entertaining.

Alec.


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## cptrayes (16 February 2013)

PS I went out with the drag today today and my horse  nearly killed me and then himself. Anyone got the phone number for Tesco  ???


Ditto Alec, their nuts, you can't stop them, I find them hilarious.


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## Hairy Old Cob (16 February 2013)

Most Hard Core ANTIS are more Anarchist than Anti


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## AnaV (16 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I think you should just put up a posting telling them to go and concentrate on those nasty people who shoot poor defenceless skeet instead [/QUOTE/]

The above is hilarious. Well said cptrayes.
		
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## cptrayes (17 February 2013)

I have some friends who were in a pub discussing skeet shooting, whose conversation was listened in on and they were roundly abused for shooting animals. It was some time before they could stop laughing to explain that skeet are not animals, never mind live ones


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## EAST KENT (17 February 2013)

Hunters said:



			One has to remember that these people are anti establishment & quite often enjoy the disruption caused to so called Toffs.

It is also worth remembering that apparently 50% of the population are below average intelligence 

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I admire your confidence ..personally I would put it at 75% in some areas.


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## MerrySherryRider (17 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			For the thousands of miles that you may well drive,  every year,  and for the very few where you break the speed limit,  and presumably put the lives of others at risk,  do I "Condemn" you?  No.  I see you as human,  and fallible,  and I forgive you your transgression.  I certainly don't judge you,  and neither do I condemn you.  Perhaps you,  in turn could afford others the same courtesy,  unless of course,  you are blame free,  and have never been carried forward by the moment. 

Alec.
		
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Unfortunately due to the incessant speed cameras and the need to drive in a way that doesn't burn fuel too excessively, I'm afraid I can't claim that I do break the law, despite the incongruity between different areas speed limits.

Trying to think of a law that I disagree with, off the top of my head, its probably the smoking ban. I find it ludicrous that a group of adults cannot smoke in a designated room in a public building these days and yet can legally smoke outside the main doors of a building where people have to pass and also that increasing numbers of pubs shut down every week since the ban.

I disagree with this legislation, but I abide by the law because I believe in democracy and respect the process.

You cannot pick and choose the laws you agree with. Criminal activity is the method of anarchists, not responsible members of society.
 Which do you choose, Alec ?


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## Alec Swan (17 February 2013)

horserider said:



			Unfortunately due to the incessant speed cameras and the need to drive in a way that doesn't burn fuel too excessively, I'm afraid I can't claim that I do break the law, despite the incongruity between different areas speed limits.

Trying to think of a law that I disagree with, off the top of my head, its probably the smoking ban. I find it ludicrous that a group of adults cannot smoke in a designated room in a public building these days and yet can legally smoke outside the main doors of a building where people have to pass and also that increasing numbers of pubs shut down every week since the ban.

I disagree with this legislation, but I abide by the law because I believe in democracy and respect the process.

You cannot pick and choose the laws you agree with. Criminal activity is the method of anarchists, not responsible members of society.
 Which do you choose, Alec ?
		
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Good Lord.  We have an HHOer,  who it seems,  has never been late for an appointment,  or to collect children from school,  or to meet a plane flight or perhaps to even attend a Court case,  and has never knowingly exceeded the speed limit,  and by doing so put the lives of others at risk.  

horserider,  I'm on bended knee,  or I would be,  if I believed you. 

Alec.


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## cptrayes (17 February 2013)

This argument intrigues me. I can't formulate it fully at the moment (Hunt Ball last night/this morning!)  but I think that there is a very large difference between a person in a car choosing to drive at 35 in a 30 limit and a group of fifty or more people conspiring together to break the law. Group action is automatically a factor which makes a crime more serious in criminal law.

I don't think either is right, but they don't seem to me to compare.

Is it just me?


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## MerrySherryRider (17 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			Good Lord.  We have an HHOer,  who it seems,  has never been late for an appointment,  or to collect children from school,  or to meet a plane flight or perhaps to even attend a Court case,  and has never knowingly exceeded the speed limit,  and by doing so put the lives of others at risk.  

horserider,  I'm on bended knee,  or I would be,  if I believed you. 

Alec.
		
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I'm Irish, so of course I don't do 'on time'. The thing is, if I'm late, then I don't stress about what I can't change. Traffic jams are a time to relax, smoke a cigarette and catch the end of a play on radio 4 and for the sake of a few minutes, the world doesn't end.

 Unless you get stressed, speed and crash...

PS, do you and everyone in your patch of 'real life' speed then ?


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## Alec Swan (18 February 2013)

horserider said:



			I'm Irish, so of course I don't do 'on time'. The thing is, if I'm late, then I don't stress about what I can't change. Traffic jams are a time to relax, smoke a cigarette and catch the end of a play on radio 4 and for the sake of a few minutes, the world doesn't end.

.......
		
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I'm so impressed.  I mean it.  I've spent my life searching for such a guru,  and one who lives a life which I can emulate,  or attempt to imitate.......

Hang on in minute.....   You're Irish you say.........   So am I. 

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (18 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			This argument intrigues me. I can't formulate it fully at the moment .......

Is it just me?
		
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No dear,  it isn't just you (sadly),  and you wont do,  whilst you consider that those who face a charge of civil disobedience,  as opposed to the person who puts the lives of others (humans,  that is ),  at risk,  are as a parallel,  then I'd be with you.  

There can be no parallels between a person who drives in a reckless and meaningful manner,  puts their fellow road users at risk,  and the person who tests a law which is considered by most,  to be an embarrassment. 

Speed limits are in place to protect mankind,  do you agree?

Alec.


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## cptrayes (18 February 2013)

Alec you weren't primarily referring to reckless and intentional speeding, you were asking someone who was saying it was not right to deliberately break the law whether they had never ever broken a speed limit. 

No, I do not think that deliberately speeding at 35 in a 30 at three o'clock in the morning when you are the only vehicle on the road, in a non-urban area,  is in any way as serious as 50 or so people conspiring to get together to break the law.  And in that instance, no I do not think that speed limit is in place to protect mankind, I think it is in place because we do not have the technology installed to make the speed limit variable when it no longer makes sense. That does not mean that it can be disobeyed, but it does reflect on the seriousness of the offence. 

It is not just a bit of "civil disobedience" to deliberately hunt fox with hounds. It is wholesale contempt of the law by a section of society who consider themselves above it in at least one respect.

There seems to be little understanding on the part of many people who post on threads like this one that a substantial proportion of the British public think that a ban on hunting fox, deer and hare with hounds is a good thing. You can disagree with them of course, but they have a right to their opinion too, and at the moment the law is on their side, by whatever political shenanigans it was arrived at.


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## Anglebracket (18 February 2013)

You could not read their Facebook posts. Was it directed at you or just a posting made somewhere else?


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## cptrayes (18 February 2013)

Anglebracket said:



			You could not read their Facebook posts. Was it directed at you or just a posting made somewhere else?
		
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I am a member of the same hunt and I have read the whole post. It actually reads as a diatribe against one particular named person with another named in addition.  I suspect it is nothing whatsoever to do with antis and everything to do with an entirely personal local vendetta. I could be wrong.


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## Nancykitt (18 February 2013)

Yes, it transpires that the main perpetrator does have 'issues' with one of the hunt members and it's not the first time that they have tried to cause trouble for this member. Some of the comments, though  - presumably from people who are part of the facebook community - were really horrible. Anyone who put a reasonable response forward to explain what was going on immediately got blocked.


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## cptrayes (18 February 2013)

That's t'internet I'm afraid, it's the wild west out there!


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## MerrySherryRider (19 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			Hang on in minute.....   You're Irish you say.........   So am I. 

Alec.
		
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Ha, should have realised. Always far too much to say. Like me.


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## EAST KENT (1 March 2013)

The whole lot of `em are totally barking,but in a way extremely amusing.Besides saying that the baby munching fox was a hoax,the last one I read was suggesting trapping and spaying "lady badgers". I really would love to watch the vet nurse get a vein for the anaesthetic next to those fearsome gnashers.Barking,all of them.


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## Vulpinator (1 March 2013)

EAST KENT said:



			The whole lot of `em are totally barking,but in a way extremely amusing.Besides saying that the baby munching fox was a hoax,the last one I read was suggesting trapping and spaying "lady badgers". I really would love to watch the vet nurse get a vein for the anaesthetic next to those fearsome gnashers.Barking,all of them.
		
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Jioning this thread halfway through is not always wise but my experience is baying at me . There is a piece of legislation called the harasment act for this circumstance constant attacks on the internet personal stacks and the constant videoing following and such like we need to make complaints video footage of them saving the attacks on facebook (personally a hate the wretched site) and any other evidence then once it has occurred on three occasions report it to police and obtain a harrasment warning on the perpetrators. Keep up the evidence gathering and push the police  to do their job.


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