# Sprinter Sacre



## Clodagh (27 December 2013)

Hoping he is soon fixed and we can see him back at his magnificent best. So sad to watch him run and not romp home.


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## Orangehorse (27 December 2013)

No racing on TV today.  What happened?  

Not a great time for Henderson yard, with Long Run fading towards the end yesterday in the King George.


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## Clodagh (27 December 2013)

I just watched my Sky+ Racing UK. He pulled up very suddenly and has an irregular heartbeat. Sounds like he is off to Newmarket tomorrow to see the cardio. Nicky Henderson seemed to think (and would probably know) it is what Denman had.


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## Dobiegirl (27 December 2013)

BG has said he felt the horse shortening his stride so pulled him up, he was examined by 2 vets who both said irregular heartbeat, whether this is because of a problem with his heart or a virus no one can say for sure until his appointment tomorrow.

NHs horses are running a bit hit and miss and the fact that SS missed his last  race because of a dirty scope does make you wonder if this is the case.

I just hope its quickly resolved and we get to see him again back to his very best.


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## Echo Bravo (27 December 2013)

Hasn't Henderson's yard had a virus going round.


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## claracanter (28 December 2013)

SS is off to Rossdales this morning for a thorough check over. Hope it goes ok. I am amazed by the conspiracy theories about him pulling up yesterday as part of a betting scam. All the best SS


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## Bryndu (28 December 2013)

From racing Post website......

SPRINTER SACRE has an appointment with heart specialist Celia Marr at Rossdales veterinary surgeons in Newmarket this morning that could determine his future after an unbeaten run of ten sensational chase victories came to a dramatic end when he was pulled up with five fences still to jump in the williamhill.com Desert Orchid Chase.

An irregular heartbeat was diagnosed after Nicky Henderson&#8217;s seven-time Grade 1 winner, sent off at 2-9 to take care of five rivals on Friday, was to general disbelief pulled up abruptly by Barry Geraghty after uncharacteristically sticky jumps at both the sixth and seventh fences in a race won by Sire De Grugy.

Speaking on the Morning Line, Henderson said: &#8220;He left here at 6am this morning to go to Newmarket for electrocardiogram tests [at 10am]. He ate up last night; he wanted his breakfast and he's sound.

&#8220;This is a clinical situation, not a physical problem. We hope to know more today and will keep everyone informed.&#8221;

Bryndu


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## Alec Swan (28 December 2013)

Bryndu,  I too watched Morning Line.  Thanks for that,  a clear explanation from NH.  It will be interesting to see if medication can stay within the doping rules,  and allow the great horse to continue,  or if his days of major exertion,  are over.

Alec.


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## MyBoyChe (28 December 2013)

An excellent bit of horsemanship by BJ.  I watched the race on RUK and you really would have been hard pushed to see anything go wrong.  Just goes to show how well these jockeys know the horses and what they should be feeling.  Fingers crossed for a successful recovery for this beautiful horse.


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## Bryndu (28 December 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			Bryndu,  I too watched Morning Line.  Thanks for that,  a clear explanation from NH.  It will be interesting to see if medication can stay within the doping rules,  and allow the great horse to continue,  or if his days of major exertion,  are over.

Alec.
		
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Yep Alec....hope so.
I had a horse in a similar situation and it turned out to be a virus. 18 months off and the horse was back as new.....so everything crossed for the boy.
Bryndu


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## EmmyMD (28 December 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			Bryndu,  I too watched Morning Line.  Thanks for that,  a clear explanation from NH.  It will be interesting to see if medication can stay within the doping rules,  and allow the great horse to continue,  or if his days of major exertion,  are over.

Alec.
		
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You aren't allowed to run a horse on any form of 'medication.' Anything but 'normal feed and hay' aren't allowed to be in the horses system on race day, so even cortaflex etc isn't really allowed. 

It would have to be medication he could eventually come off if he were to race again.


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## TelH (28 December 2013)

Hopefully it will be something fixable like what Denman had, he went on to win another Hennessy and be 2nd in 3 gold cups after his heart trouble was sorted out.


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## Elf On A Shelf (28 December 2013)

EmmyMD said:



			You aren't allowed to run a horse on any form of 'medication.' Anything but 'normal feed and hay' aren't allowed to be in the horses system on race day, so even cortaflex etc isn't really allowed. 

It would have to be medication he could eventually come off if he were to race again.
		
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You can run horses on certain medications. Most anti-biotics that do not contain penecilin can be in the system, supplements such as cortaflex, joint powders, digestive aids etc are also allowed to be in the system provided that they do not contain banned substances. 

Basically anything that will improve or impair the horse from running its true race are banned. General, low level maintenance care - lubrication so to speak - are indeed allowed.

But whatever you do - don't feed the horse a Mars Bar!!!


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## gunnergundog (28 December 2013)

Hopefully Bobs Worth provided some compensation and a smile to the Henderson yard this afternoon!


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## Alec Swan (28 December 2013)

gunnergundog said:



			Hopefully Bobs Worth provided some compensation and a smile to the Henderson yard this afternoon!
		
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:wink3:  Wonderful,  wasn't it?!!

Alec.


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## EmmyMD (28 December 2013)

EKW said:



			You can run horses on certain medications. Most anti-biotics that do not contain penecilin can be in the system, supplements such as cortaflex, joint powders, digestive aids etc are also allowed to be in the system provided that they do not contain banned substances. 

Basically anything that will improve or impair the horse from running its true race are banned. General, low level maintenance care - lubrication so to speak - are indeed allowed.

But whatever you do - don't feed the horse a Mars Bar!!!
		
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Racing doesn't have a list of banned substances. It simply states in the rules that 'We don't allow anything to be given to the horse on raceday other than food and water, which must be fed in the normal manner (i.e. in a bucket, as opposed to in a syringe or any other means)' If you have too much time on your hand the BHA rule book is about a billion pages long and all 180000000 sections of rule C, which is the one regarding feeding makes for thrilling reading.


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## claracanter (28 December 2013)

http://www.racingpost.com/news/hors...rtbeat/1585281/#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews

Confirms he has irregular heart beat like Denman. Atleast they have got to the bottom of it


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## druid (28 December 2013)

While  the BHA don't have a list of prohibited substances but they do have database of about 2,000 substances they test for. There are exceptions like wormers and most antibiotics (not procaine penicillin).


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## bonny (29 December 2013)

Is anybody else beginning to wonder about this whole affair and if there's more to it than meets the eye ?


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## Alec Swan (29 December 2013)

bonny said:



			Is anybody else beginning to wonder about this whole affair and if there's more to it than meets the eye ?
		
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Like what?

Alec.


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## bonny (29 December 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			Like what?

Alec.
		
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Just getting odder by the day, now his heart has fixed itself and he's going back into light training .....


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## Alec Swan (29 December 2013)

How do you mean "fixed itself"?  Do you have other news?  I thought that the report from Rossdales was that he had a heart problem,  and that was yesterday,  I think!

Alec.


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## bonny (29 December 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			How do you mean "fixed itself"?  Do you have other news?  I thought that the report from Rossdales was that he had a heart problem,  and that was yesterday,  I think!

Alec.
		
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Today's news is that it has fixed itself and he's going home and starting work again.....I assume being monitored.


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## AdorableAlice (29 December 2013)

bonny said:



			Is anybody else beginning to wonder about this whole affair and if there's more to it than meets the eye ?
		
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There is nothing odd about it.  The horse was trained and prepared for the day.  The jockey knows him well and was quick to stop him, a move that very likely saved his life.

The condition is common in humans and often rights itself.  If it does not medical intervention is needed where the heart is stopped and started again.

I just hope the magnificent horse makes a full recovery.  The best vets will be guiding Nicky Henderson and one would hope the owners are not greedy people intent on getting him back on the racecourse at any cost.  I do hope he does not meet his maker on the racecourse.  He owes no one anything.


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## bonny (29 December 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			There is nothing odd about it.  The horse was trained and prepared for the day.  The jockey knows him well and was quick to stop him, a move that very likely saved his life.

The condition is common in humans and often rights itself.  If it does not medical intervention is needed where the heart is stopped and started again.

I just hope the magnificent horse makes a full recovery.  The best vets will be guiding Nicky Henderson and one would hope the owners are not greedy people intent on getting him back on the racecourse at any cost.  I do hope he does not meet his maker on the racecourse.  He owes no one anything.
		
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Still not entirely sure, time will tell I guess but it seems odd to me ....plus the obvious answer to your post is that he's a horse, not a human and their hearts are different and why was he pulled up so quickly if he felt wrong and then trotted back to the stables ?


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## Alec Swan (29 December 2013)

bonny said:



			Today's news is that it has fixed itself and he's going home and starting work again.....I assume being monitored.
		
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Crikey!



AdorableAlice said:



			There is nothing odd about it.  The horse was trained and prepared for the day.  The jockey knows him well and was quick to stop him, a move that very likely saved his life.

The condition is common in humans and often rights itself.  If it does not medical intervention is needed where the heart is stopped and started again.

I just hope the magnificent horse makes a full recovery.  The best vets will be guiding Nicky Henderson and one would hope the owners are not greedy people intent on getting him back on the racecourse at any cost.  I do hope he does not meet his maker on the racecourse.  He owes no one anything.
		
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If that's the case,  then presumably he can continue with his training regime.  I must say that it does sound a bit odd,  but we'll see.

I must say,  all credit to Barry G for acting as promptly as he did,  it rather makes a nonsense of the claim that the horse isn't at the centre of everyone's best intent.  Clearly it is!

Alec.


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## AdorableAlice (29 December 2013)

bonny said:



			Still not entirely sure, time will tell I guess but it seems odd to me ....plus the obvious answer to your post is that he's a horse, not a human and their hearts are different and why was he pulled up so quickly if he felt wrong and then trotted back to the stables ?
		
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Because you cannot just stop a galloping racehorse unless it has broken down. No matter how exhausted they finish they are always kept moving.  The jockey would have felt the horse falter, possibly gurgle or gasp.  Horses have the same treatment for irregular heart beats as we do.  Denman for instance.


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## bonny (29 December 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Because you cannot just stop a galloping racehorse unless it has broken down. No matter how exhausted they finish they are always kept moving.  The jockey would have felt the horse falter, possibly gurgle or gasp.  Horses have the same treatment for irregular heart beats as we do.  Denman for instance.
		
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Denman is the only one we can name I suspect....and I wasn't asking about him being pulled up but why if he felt so wrong he was trotted back to the stables ?


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## AdorableAlice (29 December 2013)

What do you class as so wrong ?

Barry would have felt the power dip or a tiny shortening of step.


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## Doormouse (29 December 2013)

bonny said:



			Denman is the only one we can name I suspect....and I wasn't asking about him being pulled up but why if he felt so wrong he was trotted back to the stables ?
		
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Were you riding the horse? No, so maybe best leave decisions to the professionals who ride and look after this horse.

Why do so many people seem to think that there always has to be some consipirisy going on when a well known and fancied horse runs badly or is pulled up.


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## bonny (29 December 2013)

Sugarmouse said:



			Were you riding the horse? No, so maybe best leave decisions to the professionals who ride and look after this horse.

Why do so many people seem to think that there always has to be some consipirisy going on when a well known and fancied horse runs badly or is pulled up.
		
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Actually I think it's very unlikely to a conspiracy when it's a horse as high profile as Sprinter Sacre, but I still think alot of things don't add up.....time will tell but I have a feeling he'll run again soonish and be back to what he once was and we'll all be non the wiser !


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## AdorableAlice (29 December 2013)

Regarding your thoughts on him making his own way back to the stables.  Had he been in distress an ambulance would have picked him up on veterinary guidance.  The race was still taking place and other horses could need the ambulance (there are two on course).

Had Barry feared the horse had broken down, broken his pelvis or been in oxygen distress an ambulance would have been used after the vets had stabilised him.  Barry would not know the horse had heart problems.  Had he pushed him when he faltered and then the horse had burst or dropped dead what would people be saying now.

Many professional riders not just in racing will have stopped a horse for not 'feeling right', these horses are very different from the pleasure horses most of us ride.


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## Murphy88 (29 December 2013)

Bonny - atrial fibrillation can correct itself; assuming it happens mid race then a quick return to normal rhythm is quite possible and by far the best outcome. When AF is detected at a routine check, and you don't know how long it has been present for, it is much more difficult to convert the horse back to normal rhythm with treatment and less likely the normal rhythm will be maintained.

I have never sat on a horse with AF (and wouldn't want to!), but reportedly if a horse converts to AF mid-exercise then it does feel like the horse just stops, similar to when they displace their palate - to an observer you wouldn't see anything, but the jockey will feel the difference immediately, hence why Barry Geraghty presumably was so quick to pull up. The heart is still beating and the horse perfectly able to trot back, it will have just had an obvious effect on racing effort. Plenty of horses out there have AF without their owners realising there is anything wrong until it is picked up at a vaccination etc.


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## bonny (29 December 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Regarding your thoughts on him making his own way back to the stables.  Had he been in distress an ambulance would have picked him up on veterinary guidance.  The race was still taking place and other horses could need the ambulance (there are two on course).

Had Barry feared the horse had broken down, broken his pelvis or been in oxygen distress an ambulance would have been used after the vets had stabilised him.  Barry would not know the horse had heart problems.  Had he pushed him when he faltered and then the horse had burst or dropped dead what would people be saying now.

Many professional riders not just in racing will have stopped a horse for not 'feeling right', these horses are very different from the pleasure horses most of us ride.
		
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I am involved in racing, have been for many years and I still find the whole thing strange but I suppose non of us really know the full story beyond what is released to the press and only time will tell.


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## Leaf (29 December 2013)

A Virus can cause a temporary irregular heartbeat... Far more likely than some wild conspiracy theory


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## Dobiegirl (29 December 2013)

Ive seen all the conspiracy theories on the Racing Posts website, these are mainly disgruntled punters talking out their pockets, some have suggested he couldnt go with the eventual winner so was pulled up so as not to get beat.

As I said earlier some of NH horses have not been right, Bobsworth ran a stinker before winning the Lexus yesterday, cant believe either that LongRun has run to his full capabilities, I suspect they have had a virus at the yard and this could well have been showing  in SS in his race.


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## bonny (29 December 2013)

Dobiegirl said:



			Ive seen all the conspiracy theories on the Racing Posts website, these are mainly disgruntled punters talking out their pockets, some have suggested he couldnt go with the eventual winner so was pulled up so as not to get beat.

As I said earlier some of NH horses have not been right, Bobsworth ran a stinker before winning the Lexus yesterday, cant believe either that LongRun has run to his full capabilities, I suspect they have had a virus at the yard and this could well have been showing  in SS in his race.
		
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Equally you could say some of the horses on the yard are running very well and Nicky Henderson blamed the distance for Bobsworth's defeat and Long Run is on the decline.....I'm sure Sprinter would have had every test going before running and was supposed to be working brilliantly and I very much doubt he would have run at all if there was any question he wasn't right....
Just wanted to add, I'm not suggesting a conspiracy, he's too important a horse for that, all I'm saying is that it doesn't add up to me.


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## Leaf (29 December 2013)

bonny said:



			Equally you could say some of the horses on the yard are running very well and Nicky Henderson blamed the distance for Bobsworth's defeat and Long Run is on the decline.....I'm sure Sprinter would have had every test going before running and was supposed to be working brilliantly and I very much doubt he would have run at all if there was any question he wasn't right....
Just wanted to add, I'm not suggesting a conspiracy, he's too important a horse for that, all I'm saying is that it doesn't add up to me.
		
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What do you think "adds up" then?


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## bonny (29 December 2013)

jockmaster said:



			What do you think "adds up" then?
		
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If I knew that I wouldn't be asking the question !


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## AdorableAlice (29 December 2013)

Best Mate was working well before his heart gave out at Exeter, as was Persian Punch.

The only way the situation would not add up is if nothing had been found at the vets.  It was and the horse is still alive because he was in the hands of one of the best jockeys in the business.


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## bonny (29 December 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Best Mate was working well before his heart gave out at Exeter, as was Persian Punch.

The only way the situation would not add up is if nothing had been found at the vets.  It was and the horse is still alive because he was in the hands of one of the best jockeys in the business.
		
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I dont believe that for a minute, Best Mate and Persian Punch died on the course, as do many racehorses when their hearts "burst", it's often after the horse is pulled up, very rarely during the race and if Sprinter Sacre had the same problem he would be dead not being talked about as running again this season. If Barry G had thought for a moment that he was having heart problems he would hardly have trotted him back, I for one would love to know, what he thought the problem was but we are not being told......


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## AdorableAlice (29 December 2013)

bonny said:



			I dont believe that for a minute, Best Mate and Persian Punch died on the course, as do many racehorses when their hearts "burst", it's often after the horse is pulled up, very rarely during the race and if Sprinter Sacre had the same problem he would be dead not being talked about as running again this season. If Barry G had thought for a moment that he was having heart problems he would hardly have trotted him back, I for one would love to know, what he thought the problem was but we are not being told......
		
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I give in, if Best Mate and Persian Punch had not been working well they would not have started.  What sort of racing are you involved in.  I would have thought an experienced horseman involved in the industry would not be asking such odd questions.  Punters yes, horseman no.


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## Elf On A Shelf (29 December 2013)

Barry didn't necessarily need to know exactly what the problem was - he just knew the horse wasn't right and so pulled him up. He clearly felt the horse was capable of trotting back to the stables. 

There are many reasons why hearts do what they do but unless you had monitors and all forms of gadgetry on him whilst he raced you will never know the exact cause of the problem. Or why it righted itself when it did.


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## Leaf (29 December 2013)

bonny said:



			I dont believe that for a minute, Best Mate and Persian Punch died on the course, as do many racehorses when their hearts "burst", it's often after the horse is pulled up, very rarely during the race and if Sprinter Sacre had the same problem he would be dead not being talked about as running again this season. If Barry G had thought for a moment that he was having heart problems he would hardly have trotted him back, I for one would love to know, 
what he thought the problem was but we are not being told......
		
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Not the whole article but you get the gist this isn't unheard of in racehorses http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2042-3306.1986.tb03533.x/abstract

http://www.warwickequineclinic.com/PoorPerformanceIssuesandDiscussion.en.html

I guess the NH team along with the cardiologist will put him back in training, and monitor him closely to see if this is a one off problem, or an ongoing concern..


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## Echo Bravo (29 December 2013)

The 2 horses died loving what they did, luckerly BG realised something wasn't right and pulled him up and didn't put him under any pressure, so no I don't think we have a right to know. The trainer and owners owe us the public nothing, the horse is owned privately and trained for them and them only, if they decide to have the horse put down tomorrow it's their call not yours or mine. They put out a post saying he has a irregular heartbeat, that should be good enough.


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## cptrayes (30 December 2013)

bonny said:



			Is anybody else beginning to wonder about this whole affair and if there's more to it than meets the eye ?
		
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No.

Three lying vets and a mass conspiracy?? Your Christmas presents weren't very exciting, obviously


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## TrasaM (30 December 2013)

cptrayes said:



			No.
		
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 .....


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## Murphy88 (30 December 2013)

bonny said:



			I dont believe that for a minute, Best Mate and Persian Punch died on the course, as do many racehorses when their hearts "burst", it's often after the horse is pulled up, very rarely during the race and if Sprinter Sacre had the same problem he would be dead not being talked about as running again this season. If Barry G had thought for a moment that he was having heart problems he would hardly have trotted him back, I for one would love to know, what he thought the problem was but we are not being told......
		
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I don't understand what you think we aren't being told. Barry G felt something wrong, pulled up, a vet diagnosed AF (not unheard of in racehorses), SS went to Newmarket, the AF converted back to normal rhythm (quite possible given the short time it had been present). SS not has a normal heart rhythm and will be quite capable of exercise.

If you go back and read my other post on this thread I have explained about Atrial Fib, and jockmaster has posted an informative link. Barry G will have felt SS falter and start to pull up - he won't have known what was wrong, but as an experienced jockey he will have felt an immediate difference in performance.

As you have experience in racing you will presumably have seen horses flip their palate mid-race, when they usually just suddenly go backwards through the field as if hitting a brick wall. Had Barry G not been so quick to notice a problem, then this is probably what we'd have seen - a sudden loss of race pace. Barry G didn't need to know WHAT the problem was, just that there was a problem. SS would have had an increased heart race post-race but AF is by definition an irregularly irregular rhythm so the attending vet will probably have had an idea that this was the diagnosis given the clinical signs shown, and this will then have been confirmed by further heart auscultation once SS had settled, followed by the cardiac tests down at Newmarket. If a horse has only been in AF a short time then it is much easier to convert back to normal rhythm.


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## Cortez (30 December 2013)

In know nothing about racing, but I have owned a horse with intermittent AF which (as the name suggests) was sometimes present and sometimes not, and which was entirely unpredictable. The first time it manifested itself was in the middle of a dressage test and I could feel instantly that something wasn't right; vet was called and AF diagnosed. Another check 4 hours later and the heart was completely normal. I was advised to work the horse as normal and did so for several years, so I really don't know how anyone (who knows anything about the condition, that is) would suspect anything underhand.


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## Bryndu (30 December 2013)

bonny said:



			I dont believe that for a minute, Best Mate and Persian Punch died on the course, as do many racehorses when their hearts "burst", it's often after the horse is pulled up, very rarely during the race and if Sprinter Sacre had the same problem he would be dead not being talked about as running again this season. If Barry G had thought for a moment that he was having heart problems he would hardly have trotted him back, I for one would love to know, what he thought the problem was but we are not being told......
		
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Barry G is a jockey...not a vet....he would have just felt the horse falter....I know having ridden a horse who did this....but I got the vet as I did not know what was wrong....because I am not a vet.
The vets told NH there was a problem with SS...and he told the world.
Having myself been on the receiving end of the devastating news that could be a touch and go, I can imagine the relief all at NH's yard are feeling at having their boy back.
SS will be closely monitered, probably with heart monitoring equipment.....but he will need to be put back under pressure to test all of this. This is what happened to my horse.
I am saddened that people like yourself could possibly believe that a bunch of highly experienced vets would conspire with a trainer and all those connected with the horse and the industry to make a 'sham' diagnoses because they 'stopped' the horse....unbelievable 
Did you by any chance lose money on this horse?
Bryndu


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## AdorableAlice (30 December 2013)

Sky 415 ATR are about to speak to Barry G, for those of you doubting the geldings connections it will be worth listening to what Barry has to say.


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## Bryndu (30 December 2013)

Taken from today's Daily Telegraph sports page:

Cheltenham Festival still on agenda for Sprinter Sacre
Smart chaser's heartbeat had returned to normal and he will undergo further tests that will determine his chances of running at Cheltenham in March. 

Road to recovery: Sprinter Sacre is back in his stable after his irregular heartbeat returned to normal  Photo: PA By JA McGrath
6:57PM GMT 29 Dec 2013
1 Comment 
Sprinter Sacre could have been excused for thinking he had been dropped off at the wrong stable when he arrived back at Seven Barrows, in Lambourn, on Sunday. The champion two-mile chaser&#8217;s irregular heartbeat that caused him to be pulled up at Kempton on Friday had disappeared and he had been sent home from a Newmarket veterinary practice to await further tests. 

&#8220;The whole place is different from Saturday when he left,&#8221; trainer Nicky Henderson reported. &#8220;Sprinter&#8217;s heart has self-righted and that is humungous progress, plus Bobs Worth is back, having fought like a terrier to win the Lexus. There is a very different feeling at Seven Barrows today.&#8221; 

&#8220;It&#8217;s fantastic news because that means that we don&#8217;t have to use the drug that is usually the first step in these cases; a drug that is highly toxic with side effects and considerable risks. Sprinter Sacre will be given gentle exercise for a couple of days, and on Friday Celia Marr, the equine cardiologist at Rossdales, will be here with heart monitors.&#8221; 
&#8220;People are asking why it happened Well, in Celia&#8217;s opinion, elite athletes invariably have big hearts, and this brings problems. There is more *muscle around their heart, but 

there are lots of things we can do to help him.&#8221; 

Bryndu


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## claracanter (30 December 2013)

I don't believe in the conspiracy theories. However, I did read one after the race( cant remember where, I think it may have been a comment on RP) anyway the poster said SS had been pulled up to get the price down for Cheltenham Gold Cup. The comment was written before all the health checks were done. It said the trainer/jockey wont say he's lame because the experienced racegoers/pundits will be able to tell that he's not, they'll say he's got a dodgy heart because only a vet can check that for sure and then it will miraculously clear up and he will be fine for cheltenham but at bigger odds that if he had won the Kempton race.

How i don't agree with this analogy, even if it is close to what actually happened but it must be hard for NH to disprove it to the doubters.

Does AF mean that if its all normal and he runs again, it will be up to Barry during a race to decide if SS's heart is ok? What an awful responsibility when you know the horse already has a problem.


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## Dobiegirl (30 December 2013)

I dont think for one minute his price will be affected come Cheltenham and he will be going for the Champion Chase not the Gold Cup. I really think people who have got their fingers burnt are behind these rumours and although NH has been less than candid in the past re:Binnocular I think what happened to SS is true as reported.


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## bonny (30 December 2013)

Dobiegirl said:



			I dont think for one minute his price will be affected come Cheltenham and he will be going for the Champion Chase not the Gold Cup. I really think people who have got their fingers burnt are behind these rumours and although NH has been less than candid in the past re:Binnocular I think what happened to SS is true as reported.
		
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That I suppose is one of the problems with what happened, alot of people don't trust racing as it is and Henderson is not known for his openness. For me it has nothing at all to do with betting, I would never have money on a race with him involved, just wanted to watch him and expected to be amazed as before. I think for a lot of people it's nothing to do with being a punter, just a race fan and he was/is something out of the ordinary. Maybe he'll come back but there will always be a shadow hanging over him and personally I can't help but feel that if he has a heart condition he wouldn't run again. Time will tell......


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## popsdosh (30 December 2013)

Then how come Denman ran again with a more severe occurrence of this issue.Didnt seem to harm him but I suspect it may just have a small effect on the jockey that would be my only concern!


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## bonny (30 December 2013)

popsdosh said:



			Then how come Denman ran again with a more severe occurrence of this issue.Didnt seem to harm him but I suspect it may just have a small effect on the jockey that would be my only concern!
		
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Denman had an operation and a long time off and he seems to be the only well known horse that any of us can come up with that had a diagnosed problem and raced again.....


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## bonny (30 December 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			The 2 horses died loving what they did, luckerly BG realised something wasn't right and pulled him up and didn't put him under any pressure, so no I don't think we have a right to know. The trainer and owners owe us the public nothing, the horse is owned privately and trained for them and them only, if they decide to have the horse put down tomorrow it's their call not yours or mine. They put out a post saying he has a irregular heartbeat, that should be good enough.
		
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That is not how racing works, everything is supposed to be out in the open and yes, we have a right to know, horses are supposed to run on their merits and to achieve the best possible place with allowances made, obviously for injuries or tiring horses. You are not allowed to just do whatever you want.....or no one would ever watch or bet on races if everybody was just in it for themselves.


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## Leaf (30 December 2013)

bonny said:



			That is not how racing works, everything is supposed to be out in the open and yes, we have a right to know, horses are supposed to run on their merits and to achieve the best possible place with allowances made, obviously for injuries or tiring horses. You are not allowed to just do whatever you want.....or no one would ever watch or bet on races if everybody was just in it for themselves.
		
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Denman didn't have an operation http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/feb/02/denman-return-action-newbury-vets-heart-condition

As for "the only example we can come up with is Denman" maybe that's because he is a grade 1 winning NH horse who had AF was successfully treated...not a bad example....


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## cundlegreen (30 December 2013)

I have never sat on a horse with AF (and wouldn't want to!) said:
			
		


			I have been on a horse when this has happened, and believe me, its extremely frightening. My welsh D stallion was returning from a routine walk and trot hack, when he lost the use of his hindend and appeared to be shying away to the left. I got off him and walked him home, by which time he was completely normal. A week later, it happened again, this time on a busy road whilst leading another horse from him. He was "paddling" with all four legs, and seemed as if he couldn't see. I jumped off, got him and the other horse off the road (nightmare, with a driver shouting abuse at me for not controlling my horse), and led him home again. The vet could find nothing wrong, I couldn't replicate the attack even after an hours trot and canter on the lunge. Both episodes came at walk after light exercise, so very different to SS. I hate to think what would have happened if BG hadn't pulled him up so quickly (shades of Best Mate). Having ridden in races myself, when a horse tires, its like driving a car with a flat tyre, all forward thrust is gone, and thats when damage can be done.
As to my stallion, we reckoned that he had had a virus due to having his flu jab 5 weeks earlier. I gave him a year off work and vaccinations, and he's never had a problem again, although I did change the vaccine that he was given.
		
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## popsdosh (30 December 2013)

I do so hope that 'Bonny' takes the time to read that article .http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/feb/02/denman-return-action-newbury-vets-heart-condition 
It may turn out to be a hallelujah moment! Lots of horses in training suffer from this issue you just dont hear about it as they are not high profile.I once had a hunter who had it and his heart was stopped, restarted and did many seasons hard hunting subsequently was PTS at 28 due to old age.


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## Alec Swan (30 December 2013)

claracanter said:



			.......

Does AF mean that if its all normal and he runs again, it will be up to Barry during a race to decide if SS's heart is ok? What an awful responsibility when you know *the horse already has a problem*.
		
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I'm with you,  except that from what the more learned and experienced on here,  Rossdales and NH say,  there will no longer be a problem.  The horse's heart problem,  is over.  It's as if it never happened,  and again,  as you,  that surprises me.  It must be so because no jockey in his right mind would get on the back of a horse which would be likely to drop dead under him,  at full tilt,  and that's not including the advice from Trainer,  Vet and Owner.

Time alone will allow us to say "Told you so",  or to remain surprised!!

Alec.


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## Honeylight (31 December 2013)

I have bad AF myself, they have tried to correct it like they did with Denman but it didn't work. I don't want to take the drugs as they make me sick. It is controlled now with beta blockers.
I feel well, have no symptoms I can walk fast, carry shopping, go up stairs. I am sure though it would stop me doing anything very energetic. Presume SS was alright at half speed gallops, but felt wrong in the race.
Infections can cause it in people & horses, didn't he have a dirty scope some time back? Hopefully he will be fine now.

There have been some nasty comments from some of the posters on Racing Forum, but I get the feeling some of these don't like horses, only betting on them.


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## Leaf (31 December 2013)

Posted on twitter by Celia Marr
#SprinterSacre had a transient arrhythmia but a big heart also benefits a NH horse. Find more at http://t.co/JdLWGAUd9a 

Happy new year x


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## paulineh (31 December 2013)

I have had two horses with AF and both continued competing (Endurance Horses) The first was diagnosed at the first vet gate in a 100k race. He finished 3rd. The second has since won Endurance races and at the age of 24 is still  going strong and being prepared of next season.

If they found the reason for Sacre's problem and have corrected it then there is no reason why he will not race again

"Atrial Fibrillation

What is happening in the heart during atrial fibrillation? 
In atrial fibrillation, the cardiac impulse becomes confused at the level of the SA node. For reasons that are not entirely clear - again, most likely because of the very large size of the horse's heart, and because of high input from the vagal nerves - the signal from the SA node does not travel smoothly through the atria to the AV node and then to the ventricles. Rather, multiple signals come from various areas of the atria that begin to act like many small SA nodes. Only a few of these signals manage to get to the AV node and then to the ventricles. The result? The atria never relax or contract properly, and the heart does not get the chance to pump as efficiently as it should.

What causes atrial fibrillation?

In the majority of horses, there is no discernable underlying cause for the atrial fibrillation. Once again, the horse's large heart and high input from the vagal nerves is to blame - we theorize that these inputs cause the signal from the SA node to become disorganized.
Some horses do have heart murmurs and underlying valvular disease that precipitate the atrial fibrillation.
Other factors that may contribute to atrial fibrillation include
Viral disease
Low potassium levels in the blood - this can occur secondary to using Lasix (a drug used in racehorses that are 'bleeders').
Anemia
Colic
What effect does atrial fibrillation have on the horse's performance? 
Horses have an enormous cardiac reserve - meaning that their hearts are capable of delivering far more blood than they need for mild to moderate work. What does this mean for the horse? It means that horses usually don't show signs of exercise intolerance due to atrial fibrillation until they start to exercise at high levels - for instance, racing, the three-day eventing, or polo.

How do we diagnose atrial fibrillation? 
The astute veterinarian can usually be suspicious of atrial fibrillation just on auscultation. The astute veterinarian will notice that the rhythm (unlike, for instance, 2ºAV Block) is irregularly irregular. Veterinarians often refer to it as sounding like 'sneakers in a dryer', or 'bongo drums'.

The definitive diagnosis is made with an electrocardiogram. Remember that the 'p' wave reflects electrical activity in the atrium due to the SA node - if the SA node isn't firing properly, then there won't be a recognizable 'p' wave. Instead, there are multiple fibrillation, or 'f' waves - perhaps 20 or 30 of them where there ought to be only one 'p' wave.



My horse doesn't race or play polo - he's just a pleasure horse. Does his atrial fibrillation need to be treated?
In most instances, the answer is 'yes'. Most horses do not have any underlying cardiac pathology that causes a-fib. However, longstanding a-fib can lead to cardiac disease.

Sometimes, the answer is 'no'. The treatment for a-fib (see below) is potentially dangerous. So, if your horse is debilitated or is at high risk for toxicity for other reasons, you may choose not to treat. If your horse doesn't need to do high-intensity work, you may never notice that he has a problem.

How do we treat atrial fibrillation? 
The treatment of choice is a drug called quinidine. Quinidine has to be given with a nasogastric tube every 2 hours throughout the treatment period. This drug can have very toxic effects on horses, such as colic, founder, collapse, swelling around the throat, and abnormal heart rhythms (other than a-fib). For these reasons, we advise that horses only be treated at facilities where they can be monitored continually, preferably with a 24-hour ECG monitor.

What is the prognosis for recovery from atrial fibrillation? 
The prognosis is excellent (meaning that there is a 95% chance of recovery) if:

The resting heart rate is less than 60 beats per minute
The atrial fibrillation has been present for less than 4 months
There is no associated heart murmur, or the murmur is of low intensity (grade 2 out of a possible 6, or less).
The prognosis is guarded to good (meaning that there is an 80% chance of recovery, but a 60% chance that the atrial fibrillation will return) if:

The heart rate is greater than 60 beats per minute
The atrial fibrillation has been present for more than 4 months
There is an associated heart murmur that is grade 3 out of 6 or more."


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## proudwilliam (31 December 2013)

My  horse developed atrial fibrillation and was treated with  the Quinidine method but to no avail. He eventually had to be put down age 14 just 5 months after diagnosis. He kept falling over. Once he bolted through a fence I am convinced he had anoxia . He also had terrible oedema but I tried everything the vet wanted to put him down after the Quinidine but I would not hear of it.
I sent all details of the investigations after he had died to Newmarket as I wanted to know why. The valves of his heart were "shot to bits" quote due to the equine herpes virus.! that is why the Quinidine did not work. This was 1992 so there must now be better treatments and diagnosis for this condition.


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## Dobiegirl (3 January 2014)

http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd

Todays latest report which sounds very good, dont think we will know for sure until he is tested in a race.

I hope and pray it has no further affect on him and we get to see him back to his all conquering best.


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## Mariposa (3 January 2014)

Such good news, so pleased for all at Seven Barrows - hope Sprinter maintains his health, he's such a magnificent horse.
.


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## bonny (3 January 2014)

Still not convinced ! I doubt there is one person who wasn't expecting his gallop today to be fine....


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## AdorableAlice (3 January 2014)

bonny said:



			Still not convinced ! I doubt there is one person who wasn't expecting his gallop today to be fine....
		
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Ok, why was he pulled up then.


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## bonny (3 January 2014)

AdorableAlice said:



			Ok, why was he pulled up then.
		
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I have no idea, just think it's all very odd and like I say, everybody was expecting him to be fine today. Don't suppose we will ever know but sad that there will always be a cloud handing over him now.


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## Dobiegirl (3 January 2014)

I havnt a clue why you think its odd, yes they were expecting him to be fine today because he has shown no signs since his race, I would have been surprised if he didnt pass today. Its my belief it was a result of a virus which was short lived, lots of yards are affected by this, in fact Alan Kings yard is being closed for the time being. Colin Tizzard had sme horses affected as well, luckily it didnt affect Cue Card.

With Denman he had a very hard race in the Hennessy where he won with top weight and in heavy ground, he might well have had underlying problems but this race made it worse which is probably why he had to have treatment.


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## Mariposa (3 January 2014)

Well they can't really win can they? If BG hadn't pulled him up and Sprinter had come to grief everyone would be up in arms wondering why he didn't pull him up. He felt him stop pulling and realised something wasn't right and pulled him up - and quite rightly so given the vet reports. If he wasn't right I'm sure they'd retire him or leave him until next season - but if he's been given the all clear now by an expert there is no reason for him not to go back into monitored training. I for one look forward to see that wonderful horse back on the racecourse, he is a delight to watch.


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## Orangehorse (3 January 2014)

When a horse has had a virus they can appear perfectly OK, fit and well, until they are put under strain.
There was a local horse that had been ill, got better and returned to work and was out on a hunt pleasure ride when it just dropped dead, and vet thought that the virus had affected his heart.  This is why we have to vaccinate our competition horses for flu.  But there are always new bugs around.


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## teapot (3 January 2014)

bonny said:



			I have no idea, just think it's all very odd and like I say, everybody was expecting him to be fine today. Don't suppose we will ever know but sad that there will always be a cloud handing over him now.
		
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It's not odd. There was a problem, it was investigated, it appears to have cleared but they're now taking it very slowly and only might run at the Festival. If you read the latest news on At The Races the Henderson team are taking it seriously so something's obviously happened and the horse doesn't owe anyone anything.


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## Murphy88 (3 January 2014)

bonny said:



			I have no idea, just think it's all very odd and like I say, everybody was expecting him to be fine today. Don't suppose we will ever know but sad that there will always be a cloud handing over him now.
		
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Bonny, the only person who appears to think it is odd is yourself. Maybe you should take some time to research equine cardiology and arrhythmias including atrial fibrillation so that you have a better understanding of the condition? Certainly as an equine veterinary surgeon and someone with an interest in racing I see absolutely nothing 'odd' about what has gone on. 

Apart from anything else, by suggesting you think there is something not right about events, are you implying you believe that the veterinary surgeons who have treated SS are somehow lying about the findings? I think its downright preposterous to suggest that Celia Marr and the Rossdales team would do anything other than diagnose and treat what was in front of them and report on this accordingly.


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## Alec Swan (4 January 2014)

bonny said:



			I have no idea, just think it's all very odd and like I say, everybody was expecting him to be fine today. Don't suppose we will ever know but sad that there will always be a cloud handing over him now.
		
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I listened to Celia Marr on The Morning Line,  and she too seems to think that it's a little too early to give him a clean bill of health.  

Whether "Cloud" is the right word,  I'm not sure,  but for certain there will always be a question mark,  and that would be inevitable.  

Alec.


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## yellowdun (4 January 2014)

I've been fortunate to have a previous horse of mine treated by Celia Marr and I for one would trust her judgement. I'm sure she will have the best interests of the horse as a priority throughout his treatment.


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## teapot (9 January 2014)

He's entered for the Queen Mother... Be interested to see what happens in 10 weeks time, I hope he's back to his best!


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## TrasaM (9 January 2014)

teapot said:



			He's entered for the Queen Mother... Be interested to see what happens in 10 weeks time, I hope he's back to his best!
		
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Fingers crossed for him. He's a magnificent horse.


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