# unfair riding fails at Summerhouse today BHS 2



## yaddowshad (8 September 2010)

Anyone who feels they unfairly failed the riding section today must put in a complaint against the examiners to the BHS as nearly everyone failed the flat for no apparent reason and were not allowed to jump (BIG MONEY MAKING CON). Most people told they were stiff!!!!!!!""""

I am an Instructor who has asked Yaddowshad  to allow me to use this forum in order to help those who feel they were unfairly treated today.  I train to a high level and saw most riders today and they were certainly up to stage 2 standard and should not have failed the flat.  A couple of them jump competitively and were not allowed to jump.

Summerhouse put on an excellent exam today and in no way can be faulted. The horses were good and facilities excellent.

If you feel like I know some of you do unfairly treated please make a stand and complain.


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## Baggybreeches (8 September 2010)

Oh crikey! Thats not good is it? BHS Stage 2? Exactly what do they expect?


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## yaddowshad (8 September 2010)

At this stage a secure seat is required and the ability to ride on both reins at walk, trot, canter with or without stirrups, and a light secure jumping seat.  What I saw was  good riders and they shouldnt have failed.  And not to be allowed to jump is disgusting, no one was dangerous or insecure so why couldnt they jump?

This system needs to be overhauled and monitored outside of the BHS, these examiners are all mates in it together and no one monitors them.

I am really angry with what i saw today and actually very concerned something is definately amiss here.


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## Angua2 (8 September 2010)

I had something similar at my stage 2.  I never bothered to challenge it, just tried to get more lessons.  I will eventually retake it, when I have the funds.


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## carriep (8 September 2010)

Please put your complaints to the BHS as well, in writing,  if you can get other witnesses/ candidates to do the same it will be looked into.


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## siennamum (8 September 2010)

When I took my stage 2 years ago - at Summerhouse, out of 12 candidates, 9 failed. They included a girl who was on a Swedish YR dressage squad. It was laughable. I failed even though 2 days before I'd had a clinic with Richard Waygood & he'd allowed me to go for a hack on one of his advanced horses. I simply hadn't the riding school position, attitude & tendency towards using the whip. I rode with my legs & seat & didn't constantly harass the horse or have a tight contact at all times....

Stage 3 is far easier and more understandable IMO.


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## competitiondiva (8 September 2010)

Nothing ever changes does it!!!!!! Hear this all the time and was the same in my day!!! I agree with an overhaul, when you get high level dressage and badminton riders being told to stop correctly riding a horse if they want to pass or even failing at some low level stage exam!!!  What more can you say!!! 

I certainly realise that not everyone taking an exam will be upto that level, or even ride well on the day, my point is the excuses the examiners use, not the fact that they failed candidates!!!!


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## Rana (9 September 2010)

I failed my stage 1, years ago.  Doesn't really bother me, I'm not the greatest rider in the world, nor do I pretend to be.  But honestly, I felt the reasons given were appalling - I had been injured 2 days before (soft tissue/cartilage injuries to both legs).  I had a doctors certificate, had been told not to ride, but wanted to give it a go anyway.  They failed me because my "leg aids were ineffective".  Yeah, no kidding....


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## tibby (9 September 2010)

This was happening thirty plus years ago, I passed the riding of my stage three but failed the stable management due to being a shy 18 year old and not being able to speak up in the free for all question and answer session!!!!!!!!! I knew the answers to the questions but my group included two very loud young men who just butted in all the time, I was too polite, I am not now!!!!!!!


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## juliag (9 September 2010)

lol nothing ever changes does it, the first time I took my stage 1 (25 yrs ago) I failed for wearing jodhpur boots and chaps and not long leather riding boots!!! I did go on to pass my BHSAI though in my newly acquired leather boots


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## MinskiKaii (9 September 2010)

Its over 10 years since I took mine.  I took it with a friend who just scrapped a pass as they said her jumping was poor.  This is a person who jumps affilliated!!  Including being part of a team going over the Ireland.  But what would she know about jumping hey!!


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## Spinal Tap (9 September 2010)

I had the opposite with my Stage 2 (in 1988 ).  When we jumped we were allowed to pick our own course over about 8 jumps in a field.  Out of all the candidates I was the only one who jumped an ascending spread with a groundline in the right direction, but we all passed   Didn't seem right to me!  Monty Mortimer was the examiner, he was luffly


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## Weezy (9 September 2010)

This is the reason why I think BHS stages are not worth the paper they are written on, sorry if that offends anyone!  The whole BHS needs an overhaul.


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## ldlp111 (9 September 2010)

I did my stage 1 ages ago and failed the ridden part basically because my reins were too long, but not once was I out of control and i'm pretty sure I did everything else right


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## Silmarillion (9 September 2010)

Precisely why I wouldn't take BHS exams even if someone paid me to. A waste of effort and time. I hope people do complain.


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## TinselRider (9 September 2010)

Exactly the reason I have not continued my exams, I have passed stage 1 riding & care and I have been trained and assessed to pass at stage 3. Also I cannot afford the prices of the exams!!!


I know an AI who cannot even put a bridle on the correct way round ........explain that!!


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## yaddowshad (9 September 2010)

The more people i talk to on and off this forum the more im convinced these exams are on a quota basis of who passes and fails.

Im absolutely convinced that some candidates are black listed as ive just met a lady who has failed level 2 5 times and yet she competes affiliated and wins classes, but she has had a run in with a certain examiner in the past. She keeps on trying as its now become a mission for her, the next time she is going out the county to see if this helps.

I do wonder when the last time these examiners actually competed or updated their qualifications.  In any other industry you would have to stay current yet in ours they could have got their BHS1 30 years ago and taken nothing since.

Any way it is unfair and something needs to be done.


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## lindsayH (9 September 2010)

I agree with much of what has been said, my main complaint being how little explanation is given when a candidate fails in a particular area. I got an 'X' for one part of my riding (not enough to fail me) but with no comment whatsoever. I showed the paper to my father who is a senior examiner in medicine and he was appalled. If you fail on any part you are likely to either resit (if you fail), or go on to do the next stage (if you pass, as in my case). A simple 'X' with no explanation is no help whatsoever in either case.

This is a professional (not to mention expensive) qualification system and clearly greater standardisation is needed as well as clear reasons why a candidate has failed.


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## Hedgewitch13 (9 September 2010)

I'm afraid I wouldn't touch the BHS exam system with a bargepole and in the real world those exams don't really stand for anything anyway. It's just such a shame people are being ripped off left, right and centre, especially when they think they are doing the right thing by going through the BHS system. 

I'm watching Watchdog at the moment... now there's an idea...!


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## Horsefun (9 September 2010)

I am sorry you had a bad day, but glad the horses and facilities were great as my best exam experience was at summerhouse.  The horses were all excellent and everyone was so friendly.  I wish I could say the same for the examiners


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## competitiondiva (9 September 2010)

Well I'll quote my experiences

15 years old doing riding and road safety, get one answer marked wrong, so at the end of the exam I get out the highway code and show the examiner I was right!!!  Her excuse 'oh I haven't got my glasses'!!! WTF!!!

Funnily enough I failed the following exam stage 2! Only one 1 part, which was the jumping!! I was actually jumping 1.10 members cups and newcomers at the time of the exam, I realise that is no defense as there are some shocking rider out there competing on brill horses, my horse was a cheap, nut case!!  But not only that, I was the only one in the exam to a) do 3 clears! b) get one of the horses round the course full stop!!!  OK I'd accept it if I was poor, or told how to improve, but the examiner said 'you did not fold before you reached the fence'!!! WTF maybe you used to jump like that when jumping to evade the Dinosaurs!!!!!!! hahaha!!  There were alot of failures and I wondered if each examiner is given a push to fail a certain amount to increase funding in resit fees, but this is just my speculation.  

After this I met an AI who couldn't put a bridle together after cleaning it!!  And then a friend who is a damn fine dressage rider, in becoming a BD accredited trainer needs to do her stages, yet she was told in order to pass she must stop 'riding' the horse!!

Another AI I know cannot and never has known how to get a horse to engage and work in a correct outline!!

Where is the sense in all this!  I realise not everyone will be up to the exam, but please get some sort of order with regards to reasons to fail, and standards!  The BHS exam system should be a goal to have achieved through quality of riding and knowledge and should be something we as a community should respect and defer to.  It's a pity it does not live up to this.


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## EventingMum (9 September 2010)

Having lurked on this forum for a long time this topic has finally made me take the plunge and register to try and clear up some misconceptions. 

I have been an assessor for 16 years and can honestly say I have never heard of a quota system for passing or failing candidates.  To fail a candidate involves far more work for the assessor and the chief assessor and in my experience is not something any assessor I know would do without good reason.  One chief assessor I work with always says in her introduction to candidates remember we are here to find reasons to pass you today not fail you.

At the end of every exam the assessors are given a report sheet on which the chief assessor has reviewed their performance that day and it includes a part for attitude to candidates.  It has certainly always been my experience that we have been told that candidates pay a lot of money to sit these exams and we have to put them at ease to allow them to perform to the best of their ability and to assess them fairly bearing in mind exams days are nerve wracking for most people. We are certainly are not permitted to fail candidates without justification and have to record in detail the reasons for any failures.  On occasions I do feel sorry for some candidates who are keen to further their careers but are obviously hampered by inadequate training prior to being entered for an exam.

 As far as staying current it is a condition of remaining an assessor that an annual training day is attended, these are done on a regional basis for two years and the third year there is a national training day.  A couple of years ago the regional training days were run by a non equine company whos remit was to make assessors more aware of how they were perceived by candidates and to improve their communication skills with candidates. 

Obviously unsuccessful candidates will always be disappointed and this undoubtedly leads to sour grapes and rumour spreading by some.  Competing at a particular level is no guarantee to success; some abysmal riders compete at a reasonably high level, others are only used to riding one horse or horses of a particular type. Equally so some very good riders have no desire or lack the horse or finance to compete. 

My experience of assessing is mainly confined to exam centres in my part of the country and I accept I do not know many assessors in other areas.  However I would be saddened to think my experience was not the norm and I think the BHS/EQL office would feel likewise. I know they have made a huge effort recently to ensure these exams are meeting the requirements of the equine industry and any complaints are taken seriously and investigated thoroughly so if you feel you have been unfairly treated you do have a course for redress.

I apologise for such a long first post and hope any future posts are not so controversial.


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## palomino_pony (9 September 2010)

Failed mine when pony bolted on the lunge after it was spooked by a tractor, regained control, ended well, told then what was wrong. The said side reins should have been on and tight?? WTF?? It was a 12.2hh, reins were as long as him, and we'd have done 1/2 a circle. He was put away and a ploddy cob brought out for the next person! Never re-took but I have pony club B test anyway


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## galaxy (9 September 2010)

I agree with you completely EM.  I don't think there is an quota or anything of the sort.  Yes there will be certain "things" that certain examiners like more than others.  For example, I had heard through the grapevine that a certain examiner in my area (Art Nordvick - don't see why I can't name!  It's not a critism!) didn't like riders at Stage 3 riding large.  He sees it as pointless and not "getting on with it" and "schooling/improving the horse" which is the point at Stage 3.  He was my head examiner on my day, so I knew what NOT to do!  (even though personally I like to "test" what I have occasioanlly by going large to see if the horse maintains it)  I didn't and I passed.  I had an ABSOLUTE MARE with one flat horse.  It was stiff and horrible.  He pulled me in after 5 mins and asked what I was doing (in a nice way... that's what they do).  I told him my assessment, my plan but obviously it came across my slight panic that I knew it wasn't going well!  He said "ok, now go and get the horse to get on with it!".  It was just what I needed.  Without saying it outright he'd told me to get firmer and to stop panicing!!  I was so grateful.  The horse went much better and I passed.

So there may be "certain things" that certain examiners look for.  But thats' life!  It's the same in the competitive world

I failed my stage 3 riding the 1st time around.  I had no idea why.  I'd done it at the exam centre where I had trained.  My instructors watched me and were shocked I failed.  They mentioned complaining.  But instead I went for a 2nd opinion on my riding elsewhere.  They pulled my positions apart, told me where I was going wrong and I passed.  Their exam pass rate at that trainging centre  (Lavant House) is over 95%.  That is what I'd recommend people do before complaining.  Go and have a 2nd impartial opinion.

I'm sorry some people don't rate the BHS and think it's outdated.  But we'll have to agree to disagree.


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## yaddowshad (9 September 2010)

In regards to comments made by eventing mum i understand your point of view however you are an assessor (presume NVQ) and not BHS.  The BHS operate differently and are a law to themselves.

Im glad this forum has provoked interest, it is so easy for assessors/examiners to say those that fail are not to the standard when we all know this is rubbish, its the exscuse they use when they fail people.

Im not saying all those that fail are above the standard as that is not true and some are not at the required level, however what the instructor saw at Summerhouse clearly shows some candidates failed for no apparent reason.  From what i heard 9 out of 12 failed and of the ones they deamed safe to jump 1 fell off at the first fence, so examiner got that wrong didnt he.

It would be great if someone who took the exam that day and failed would come onto this forum and give their opinion. They probably wont for fear of retaliation at their next exam.


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## yaddowshad (9 September 2010)

[

I failed my stage 3 riding the 1st time around.  I had no idea why.  I'd done it at the exam centre where I had trained.  My instructors watched me and were shocked I failed.  They mentioned complaining.  But instead I went for a 2nd opinion on my riding elsewhere.  They pulled my positions apart, told me where I was going wrong and I passed.  Their exam pass rate at that trainging centre  (Lavant House) is over 95%.  That is what I'd recommend people do before complaining.  Go and have a 2nd impartial opinion.

I'm sorry some people don't rate the BHS and think it's outdated.  But we'll have to agree to disagree.[/QUOTE]


But this comment indicates the training centre you were at had not trained you correctly for them to think you should have passed, is this what you are saying? if not surely you can see the subjectiveness of the BHS examiners?????


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## galaxy (9 September 2010)

all I'll say is when I failed my stage 3 over half the candidates failed.  From what I recall they were all trained by the centre we took it at.  The centre thought we should have passed.  I went for a 2nd opinion and they told me exactly why I failed.  They trained me for a few months and I passed.

I think that the inital place I trained at was wrong thinking that I should have passed the 1st time.

Yaddowshad...  I'm sorry you've failed.  I've been there!  I'd REALLY recommend you go to an independent BHS trainging centre and get a 2nd opinion on your riding.  That's the only way you'll know for sure.

Just to clarify it was the 2nd place I went for my 2nd opinion (LHS) that has a pass rate of over 95%


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## DragonSlayer (9 September 2010)

Not taken any exams in riding, never seen the need to for my life-plan, but I would have thought it would have been better to take your exam elsewhere, to get a complete impartial view TBH.....

Couldn't your regular instructors become a little complacent after a while? 

It's something to think about....


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## galaxy (9 September 2010)

DragonSlayer said:



			Not taken any exams in riding, never seen the need to for my life-plan, but I would have thought it would have been better to take your exam elsewhere, to get a complete impartial view TBH.....

Couldn't your regular instructors become a little complacent after a while? 

It's something to think about....
		
Click to expand...

It is external examiners that exam you.  The instructors just hang around making sure there are no running issues (horses equipment etc).  Hence they watch the exam.

It is quiet common to take the exam where you train.  You're allowed to, up to and including stage 3 (not for stage 4).  Helps with initial exam nerves when you know the centre and the horses.  Although 2nd time around for my stage 3 I went to a centre I didn't know and was fine.  Almost better the devil you DON'T know!


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## DragonSlayer (9 September 2010)

galaxy23 said:



			It is external examiners that exam you.  The instructors just hang around making sure there are no running issues (horses equipment etc).  Hence they watch the exam.

It is quiet common to take the exam where you train.  You're allowed to, up to and including stage 3 (not for stage 4).  Helps with initial exam nerves when you know the centre and the horses.  Although 2nd time around for my stage 3 I went to a centre I didn't know and was fine.  Almost better the devil you DON'T know! 

Click to expand...

Ah, fair enough, thanks for the clarification!


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## EventingMum (9 September 2010)

Just to set the record straight I am in fact an assessor for the BHS exams.  We are no longer called examiners, a recent change which was part of the continued effort to bring the exam system up to date.

Exams up to BHSII are now award by EQL (Equestrian Qualifications GB Limited) and are accredited by Ofqual (Office of the Qualifications and Examinations Regulator) and are on the National Qualifications Framework.  Obviously to satisfy the conditions of this accreditation the exams syllabi and procedures have to be thoroughly checked and monitored by external bodies.  To say the BHS is a law unto itself is simply not factual, one of the reasons for these changes was to ensure BHS exams were recognised as worthwhile qualifications. 

Assessors are not allowed to assess (examine) at a centre where they work or to assess candidates they have trained.  

If a candidate has failed the flatwork it is an insurance requirement that they are not allowed continue and to jump. Unfortunately there will always be some degree of subjectivity when looking at the riding section of an exam but the same could also be said for dressage judging.

There is definitely no blacklist operating, in fact when organising assessors for an exam, chief assessors are told to try and ensure assessors do not always do the same sections of exams so the riding assessor for one exam may be the practical or theory assessor next time round.  The exam results are not available to anyone not assessing on that day so it is unlikely that the riding examiner next time will even be aware of a previous unsuccessful attempt.


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## YorksG (9 September 2010)

I presume that the centres which train for these exams are BHS approved if they conduct exams there. This leads me to question the standard of the assessment of the training which people are paying for if the pass rate is so erratic. This would call the BHS into disripute if the standard of training is so poor that such a high percentage of candidates fail, another form of rip off. The other problem to my mind would be not teaching rididing, but teaching to the test.


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## scally (10 September 2010)

I do think the BHS are trying very hard to catch up with current trends and qualifications are worth having.  As with everything in life there will always be good and bad instructors.

The trouble with exams are a lot of candidates believe because they compete think they have it in the bag, ride as they would competing and therefore do not fill all the required elements of the BHS exam or over exceed on what is required to be shown on the day, or cannot explain why they are doing and what they aim to achieve.  I have seen many that have worked hard for stable management but dont really listen as to what is required to be shown for ridden and hence fail on silly points "because they compete at x level".  

A simple analogy is a racing car driver would not necessarily pass his driving test as different skills are required for different situations.

I got a borderline pass in my jumping Stage 3 and 4 because old habits die hard, I jumped affiliated and slipped back to bad habits that were within my comfort zone.  In fact I think my assessor was very fair as he could have failed me on my 3.


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## itsme123 (10 September 2010)

I wouldn't touch BHS stages with a barge pole. 

I went for a lesson at a BHS examining yard and was spoken to like a piece of dirt. Told my riding was awful, that I wouldn't be 'let loose' on one of their horses without hours and hours of one to one tuition. Eventually, feeling like absolute tripe, I asked if they thought my riding could ever be good enough for BHS stage 1? I was told 'maybe, but not if you ride like you're on a beach donkey like you have for the last hour" followed by laughing. 

Insterestingly, I'd ridden for years prior to that, on eventing and hunt yards, RS etc. Had had my own ponies. And never had a confidence problem. An hour at a BHS training yard and my confidence was in tatters. 

Even more interestingly, I plucked up the courage to see a different instructor at a different yard, and apart from me being out of practice the instructor said my riding was absolutely fine. 

I mean, heck, shoot the woman if you like, but I was even employed as main groom on a yard after that experience (and no more lessons), by a BHSI, and *shock horror* allowed to ride her stallion and some youngsters.... she even let me loose with them! 

THAT peeps, is the way forward. I wouldn't take BHS exams if, as someone said before, they paid me to.


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## lindsayH (10 September 2010)

Thanks for clearing up some of the issues Eventing Mum, it's useful and interesting to hear your side of the story. If examiners are not allowed to permit candidates to jump if they have failed the flat work section, then that's just how it is. I also agree that where there is possibility of failure then there is possibility of sour grapes. I have found my examiners to be extremely helpful and kind on the day.

However, I still don't think that it's acceptable to give someone an 'X' with no further comment or explanation, especially at the lower levels. If there are detailed and genuine reasons why a candidate has failed (and I'm sure there are) these should be passed on.

Furthermore, if the instructors at the training centre are genuinely surprised a candidate has failed, having watched the exam, something is going wrong. Most of these centres are BHS approved, so either the BHS approved instructor is wrong or the examiner is wrong. It is costing me getting on for £1000 to take my stage 3, for that I expect the standards of both to be extremely high!

At the end of the day, there will always be an element of personal opinion involved. Lets not forget that nerves also play a huge part and could cause someone you would normally consider to be well above the standard to fail.


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## DragonSlayer (10 September 2010)

ARE there any alternatives....? I haven't a clue! :O


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## lindsayH (10 September 2010)

There are the ABRS (ass. of british riding schools) qualifications, but I don't know if they are as internationally recognised as the BHS ones.

There are also all manner of NVQs, degrees etc. these days!


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## WishfulThinker (10 September 2010)

This is exactly why I think the exams are a load of BS!  As I have seen a few who must have passed them - to become instructors - and have some pretty crappy riding.  Lots of kicking, tugging and smacking! 


My instructor is an ABRS instructor, and although he can be weird some times (but that is just him!) I rate him over the majority of BHS ones I have had.  In the space of 4 months he took me from crying at the thought of jumping to doing a 3ft double downhill in the rain.  And eventually persuaded me to tackle 4ft - which I did and will never do again haha.  

I think that considering as someone has said, someone doing dressage squad failed then they do need a big overhaul.  Not everyone who will reach is an excellent rider - some are fab on the ground, not in the saddle.  But even though they need to have a basic level of riding , they need to either reasses what that is, or current instructors need to up their game.  
This is what happens when they make a square box and everyone has to conform - - not everyone will be an exact fit, but they are still fit for purpose!


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## scally (10 September 2010)

The way I look at it is, when you do say your maths O level at school having the correct answer is not enough you have to have the workings out to gain top marks, the same goes for BHS exams, just because you can ride it you need to explain why you are doing it, just because you can ride a dressage horse to x level does not mean you can explain the reasons you are doing it.  You need to be able to explain why you are riding the horse the way you are and what you hope to achieve, not just show it.  I know many top competition riders that can not teach as they cannot explain themselves, I know many people that are ok riders that as teacher excel in explaining themselves.

The same goes with teachers in schools you dont have to be the best to teach your subject, you have to be able to explain what you want to achieve and how to achieve it.  You also need to be able to re think the way you teach each student and horse very quickly with different people and horses, use a slightly different method or different terminology depending on what you have in front of you at the time.

Not everyone rides a hot WB dressage horse and some dressage riders cannot get a tune out of a cob, the BHS looks at it for what stage you are at you should be able to achieve the same level out of both horses and explain why.

I am not just BHS instructor I am just renewing my BD trainer status (as let it expire for 5 years due to working abroad) and my BS.


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## EventingMum (10 September 2010)

I do understand the concern many people have with regard to exams and training, especially as the financial costs are so high.

The training of assessors is taken seriously and any complaints are investigated thoroughly. Assessors receive regular newsletters and are constantly reminded of our duty to candidates and our conduct as representatives of the BHS.  Instances where there have been failures of assessors to maintain these standards are also relayed to us (without naming names, dates or specific exams) along with a strict warning to ensure this does not happen again.  I think it is fair to say the BHS has been aware of the exam system not always having the best reputation in some circles and have strived very hard to change this whilst still maintaining an exam system that represents a high standard of attainment for those who pass. After all an exam that is too easy to pass will soon be deemed as worthless by prospective employers.

Trainers are a much harder area for the BHS to regulate.  Approved centres will be inspected with unannounced annual visits and this will provide a snapshot view of that centre which will hopefully reflect normal day to day working there, however it would be impossible in terms of manpower and finance to thoroughly check the training of all levels of client these centres have within each of these visits.  These visits also have to check horse welfare, tack and facility maintenance, health and safety procedure and paperwork to name but a few of the areas checked. 

Trainers operating out with approved centres unfortunately do not have to be checked at all and there is no requirement for prospective candidates to be trained by a suitable person.  Trainers on the BHS Register of Instructors will have attended biannual training days and hold current insurance, first aid and child protection qualifications but may or may not be experienced in preparing candidates for exams.  Those who gained qualifications a long time ago may not be aware of the standards currently required in exams if they have not made a concerted effort to keep up to date, unfortunately nothing can be done in these cases, after all Im sure many of us passed exams at school but years later would struggle to reach the standard required today.

As far as being treated like a piece of dirt at an approved centre  this is obviously totally unacceptable and I assume you voted with your feet itsme123, after all centres will only survive as long as they have clients.  Once again the BHS is trying hard to move with the times and the introduction of the UKCC is an attempt to offer an additional qualifications focussing on coaching techniques and sports psychology which should raise the standard of trainers. 

 My advice (for what it's worth) to any prospective candidates is to ensure your trainer is suitably experienced and competent to help you achieve the standard required for these exams.  Ride a wide variety of horses in different situations and it certainly does no harm to be assessed by more than one trainer prior to applying to sit the exam.  However do remember things can go wrong on the day, nerves can play a big part and influence your performance and if sadly you fail to come up to standard although disappointed try to learn from the experience. Anyone who does fail will be sent a written report highlighting areas of weakness so train further and come back more competent and gain a qualification to be proud of.


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## galaxy (10 September 2010)

EM.   One problem I possibly put my experience down to, I don't know if you'd agree, is that instructors at riding schools (i'm talking qualified ones, who would be training people for exams) do not have to be on the register of instructors as they are covered my the RS insurance and therefore may well not be up to date with what it takes to pass the exams or current training techniques.  

May be something that should change?

The place I took mine had only just started training and running Stage 3 at the time.  These places with poor exam pass rates will suffer from them.  People will vote with their feet.


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## Kat (10 September 2010)

Eventing Mum, thanks for your useful and interesting replies! I'm considering doing my BHS exams (more for personal acheivement than as part of my career plan) so it is interesting to hear what is happening. 

You have touched on an area that is a pet peeve of mine and that is the standards of instructors and being able to check the qualification and level of instructors and trainers, obviously if you are training for exams this is really important. 

I personally think it is high time that all instructors were listed in someway on the register of instructors alongside their precise qualifications. At present many instructors teaching at riding schools and training centres are not listed and it is difficult to know whether this is simply because they are not required to as full time employees or because they are not actually qualified. In an upgrading of the register of instructors there could be additional information to help people track down instructors who have experience in preparing candidates for exams, in the same way that there is currently information about instructors who are also BD accredited coaches. 

I think it is important that the public are able to check up on those holding themselves out as instructors and coaches and the more information the public are able to access the more they will be able to make informed choices. This will favour the instructors who take their professional development seriously and will encourage instructors to continue with BHS exams and qualifications.


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## Kat (10 September 2010)

galaxy23 said:



			EM.   One problem I possibly put my experience down to, I don't know if you'd agree, is that instructors at riding schools (i'm talking qualified ones, who would be training people for exams) do not have to be on the register of instructors as they are covered my the RS insurance and therefore may well not be up to date with what it takes to pass the exams or current training techniques.  

May be something that should change?

The place I took mine had only just started training and running Stage 3 at the time.  These places with poor exam pass rates will suffer from them.  People will vote with their feet.
		
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Agree 100% it is so easy for a riding school (even a good one) to assign you an instructor who has lapsed in their training, or who is a trainee and you have no way of checking. When you are an experienced rider you can assess your instructor (in fact our old YM often asked our group what we think of new and/or trainee instructors for this reason) and then vote with your feet but this is very difficult for novices and children with non-horsey parents. 

The BHS system would only be strengthened if it was easier to check the level of qualification of the person teaching you.


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## yaddowshad (10 September 2010)

Expectantly the assessors ( who were actually referred to as examiners at the exam) will try and fight their corner and try to persuade us all the good old BHS way is the best, try telling the French, Germans and Dutch that, the ones ive spoken to think the BHS is crap.

With the amount of people feeling that the BHS is unfair and biased towards candidates (ie older ones who might darn well be a bit stiff) It needs to get its big head out the sand and sort itsalf out before it loses all credibility.

Riders these days dont want to be talked down to and made to feel inadequate by a bunch of old fashioned has beens with a power rush.

I am angry with the BHS because so many people have spoken to me about how their confidence was shattered by the BHS.  How dare they do that to people.

Also why isnt there government funding for the BHS but there is for NVQ  is it that they realise the BHS aint worth funding?


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## YorksG (10 September 2010)

Surely if the BHS assesors decline to pass 75% of candidates put forward by a particular training establishment this should ring alarm bells. If the BHS is serious about raising it's standards any establishment which has such a poor pass rate, should be subject to greater scrutiny and in a similar manner to schools, social service departmets, etc. and should be put in 'special measures' until they attain a standard suitable to train and have their accreditation removed if they do not make the grade.


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## yaddowshad (10 September 2010)

yorksG said:



			Surely if the BHS assesors decline to pass 75% of candidates put forward by a particular training establishment this should ring alarm bells. If the BHS is serious about raising it's standards any establishment which has such a poor pass rate, should be subject to greater scrutiny and in a similar manner to schools, social service departmets, etc. and should be put in 'special measures' until they attain a standard suitable to train and have their accreditation removed if they do not make the grade.
		
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The centre holding the exam will have candidates coming from every where to take the exam, they will not of necessarily trained at that centre so the centre cant be blamed.

However you are right when you say these centres who send candidates on the exam that theyve trained and they still fail should be scrutinised.

Some centres are using unqualified instructors to train BHS candidates.

However many candidates book an exam then go to the centre and say "sort me out" but not giving the centre enough time to train them correctly.


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## EventingMum (10 September 2010)

Galaxy23  yes I agree there is a possibility that riding school instructors may not be on the Register of Instructors or current in terms of the requirements of exams.

Katt  the Register of Instructors is available on the BHS website and each person listed on it has details of their qualifications shown. However it is the choice of each instructor to decide whether they wish to be registered and fulfil the conditions required to enable them to be listed, obviously this requires them to pay a fee (reduced for those working solely at an approved centre and covered under the centres insurance).

In both these instances Im sure a reputable instructor or centre would have no hesitation in confirming the qualifications and experience of their staff.  I dont think it would be frowned upon to ask  I for one would certainly not be offended after all you are paying for a service provided and wish to spend your money wisely! 

Those training for exams can look to Where to Train Centres. These establishments undergo an additional, more rigorous inspection. This makes sure that their instructors can train students to the standard that the centre is recognised for, and that horses at the centre are trained to a suitable standard for the work required of candidates at that level. Instructors at Where to Train establishments must be registered and are required to stay up to date with current standards by attending seminars and conferences. They must also be qualified to the level above that to which the centre is approved to train

Yaddowshad  talking down to people is not the way many BHS assessors or instructors behave and it is indeed unfortunate you have encountered this but please dont tar us all with the same brush.  That is a bit like saying all doctors/lawyers or any other group of professional people are rude  we are all individuals with our own personalities  I would bet we all had some teachers at school we got on with and felt could teach better than others  that is human nature.  I certainly like to think I try to build a good rapport with my pupils and they go away from lessons happy regardless of their level of ability. However there does seem to be an increasing trend towards people not being able to take criticism in any form, constructive or otherwise and I struggle to see how such individuals can move forward, learn and improve. I would go further and suggest the people you have spoken to have not had their confidence shattered by the BHS but by individuals who happen to have BHS qualifications. It is unfortunate that you have such a negative view of the BHS but fortunately not everyone shares this view point and the system does have many supporters. The image you paint of old fashioned has beens is certainly not applicable to many people I have encountered and I hope not to myself, however do bear in mind gaining experience and competence takes time so many worthwhile instructors may be the wrong side of 21!

yorksG  - there is no requirement for candidates to be trained by an instructor/trainer with particular qualifications or at a particular centre. The assessors will not have any knowledge of who trained the candidates they are assessing either so there will certainly be no bias towards or against candidates from a particular trainer or centre. The Where to Train Centres are certainly an attempt by the BHS to ensure suitable training is available to those looking for it.


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## Kat (10 September 2010)

yorksG said:



			Surely if the BHS assesors decline to pass 75% of candidates put forward by a particular training establishment this should ring alarm bells. If the BHS is serious about raising it's standards any establishment which has such a poor pass rate, should be subject to greater scrutiny and in a similar manner to schools, social service departmets, etc. and should be put in 'special measures' until they attain a standard suitable to train and have their accreditation removed if they do not make the grade.
		
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I think the problem is that you don't have to be put forward by a training establishment. You can't really compare the BHS exams to a school, it is more like the driving test, in that anyone can apply (providing they have passed the previous stage) and can do the exam wherever they choose. 

So a driving test centre may have a particularly high failure rate and that may indicate a problem, like the examiner in Nottingham who was investigated years ago for failing 100% of all young men taking their test for the first time  but equally it may also be an issue outside their control, like having a disproportionately high number of candidates who haven't had professional training, or for whom english isn't a first language or who have literacy problems or whatever. 

The exam centre doesn't actually know who is going to be sitting the exam on the day, they just get numbers and height/weight so they can assign horses. That is what the YO of the exam centre I have my lessons at told me when I spoke to her about it. They cannot say to someone that they aren't ready to take the exam as the candidates simply send their form and money to the BHS.


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## kerilli (10 September 2010)

Weezy said:



			This is the reason why I think BHS stages are not worth the paper they are written on, sorry if that offends anyone!  The whole BHS needs an overhaul.
		
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hear hear.
Many years ago a friend failed her Stage 1.  She'd recently medalled at the Junior Europeans... truly unbelievable. iirc she was the only one who was failed, and the only one out of the lot of them who could actually ride! 

And don't even get me started on some of the things I've seen FBHSs do with/to horses... I know some are exceptional horsemen and -women, but some really aren't.


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## Kat (10 September 2010)

EventingMum said:



			Galaxy23  yes I agree there is a possibility that riding school instructors may not be on the Register of Instructors or current in terms of the requirements of exams.

Katt  the Register of Instructors is available on the BHS website and each person listed on it has details of their qualifications shown. However it is the choice of each instructor to decide whether they wish to be registered and fulfil the conditions required to enable them to be listed, obviously this requires them to pay a fee (reduced for those working solely at an approved centre and covered under the centres insurance). In my mind the problem is that it is optional. Personally I think that it should be compulsory to have an entry if you are undertaking any paid teaching, but this could be a limited listing and there could be improved listings including contact details etc for those who wish to pay. I think it is important to be able to check independantly. 

In both these instances Im sure a reputable instructor or centre would have no hesitation in confirming the qualifications and experience of their staff.  I dont think it would be frowned upon to ask  I for one would certainly not be offended after all you are paying for a service provided and wish to spend your money wisely! Ah but how do you know that the person you are dealing with is honest and reputable if you can't check up on them?? 

Those training for exams can look to Where to Train Centres. These establishments undergo an additional, more rigorous inspection. This makes sure that their instructors can train students to the standard that the centre is recognised for, and that horses at the centre are trained to a suitable standard for the work required of candidates at that level. Instructors at Where to Train establishments must be registered and are required to stay up to date with current standards by attending seminars and conferences. They must also be qualified to the level above that to which the centre is approved to train Where to train centres may still assign client's an unqualified or trainee instructor for a lesson, in fact it is probably more likely because they have students requiring practice. That is fine but it would assist client's to be able to independantly check the qualification of their instructor. 

Yaddowshad  talking down to people is not the way many BHS assessors or instructors behave and it is indeed unfortunate you have encountered this but please dont tar us all with the same brush.  That is a bit like saying all doctors/lawyers or any other group of professional people are rude  we are all individuals with our own personalities  I would bet we all had some teachers at school we got on with and felt could teach better than others  that is human nature.  I certainly like to think I try to build a good rapport with my pupils and they go away from lessons happy regardless of their level of ability. However there does seem to be an increasing trend towards people not being able to take criticism in any form, constructive or otherwise and I struggle to see how such individuals can move forward, learn and improve. I would go further and suggest the people you have spoken to have not had their confidence shattered by the BHS but by individuals who happen to have BHS qualifications. It is unfortunate that you have such a negative view of the BHS but fortunately not everyone shares this view point and the system does have many supporters. The image you paint of old fashioned has beens is certainly not applicable to many people I have encountered and I hope not to myself, however do bear in mind gaining experience and competence takes time so many worthwhile instructors may be the wrong side of 21! Agree 100%

yorksG  - there is no requirement for candidates to be trained by an instructor/trainer with particular qualifications or at a particular centre. The assessors will not have any knowledge of who trained the candidates they are assessing either so there will certainly be no bias towards or against candidates from a particular trainer or centre. The Where to Train Centres are certainly an attempt by the BHS to ensure suitable training is available to those looking for it.That is my understanding too

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Thanks again for an informative post! 

But I remain of the view that there needs to be a way of checking up on qualifications. I'm a lawyer, and if we hold a current practising certificate we will be listed (no option) on either the register of solicitors on the SRA website or on the register of legal executives on the ILEX website. If you are not on either you are committing an offence to call yourself a solicitor or legal executive. I use this tool regularly because a surprising number of "professionals" are deliberately vague or misleading about their level of qualification, the good thing is that it gives concrete proof of whether the person is qualified or not. It would be even more useful if it included trainees, so as to differentiate them from people who are simply unqualified.


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## TGM (10 September 2010)

yaddowshad said:



			the ones ive spoken to think the BHS is crap.
		
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			With the amount of people feeling that the BHS is unfair and biased towards candidates (ie older ones who might darn well be a bit stiff) It needs to get its big head out the sand and sort itsalf out before it loses all credibility.
		
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			Riders these days dont want to be talked down to and made to feel inadequate by a bunch of old fashioned has beens with a power rush.
		
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I have no experience of the BHS exam system, so cannot comment upon its failings and attributes.  However, I can say that if you want people to take your grievances with the system seriously, you need to learn how to present your case in a professional and unemotional manner!  The language used above definitely doesn't do that!!


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## YorksG (10 September 2010)

Katt said:



			Thanks again for an informative post! 

But I remain of the view that there needs to be a way of checking up on qualifications. I'm a lawyer, and if we hold a current practising certificate we will be listed (no option) on either the register of solicitors on the SRA website or on the register of legal executives on the ILEX website. If you are not on either you are committing an offence to call yourself a solicitor or legal executive. I use this tool regularly because a surprising number of "professionals" are deliberately vague or misleading about their level of qualification, the good thing is that it gives concrete proof of whether the person is qualified or not. It would be even more useful if it included trainees, so as to differentiate them from people who are simply unqualified.
		
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Absolutely agree, as a member of yet a nother profession (social work) where it is an offence to call oneself a 'social worker' if not qualified and who MUST be on the register to practice (our register does say if you are a student or not) I feel the same should be done by the BHS. It  may also be worthwhile them insisting on a minimum number of sessions at an accredited training session prior to taking the exam, as part of the overall assessment process.


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## kizzywiz (10 September 2010)

I agree with posters above who say the whole system needs an overhaul, personally I wouldn't consider training with someone because "they have their AI" for me proven results & experience is way more important.  IMO the BHS teach people to pass exams not to ride well with feel or any common sense in horse management.

My recent experiences:  A qualified AI unable to poultice her horses foot.  A qualified AI who on a non riding school horse, ie a real horse that needs riding properly, unable to perform even a basic dressage test or show jumping round.  Sorry but the list goes on & on.

IME BHS instructors are old fashioned & patronising, concentrating always on the negative.  For me, accredited coaches with competition experience every time.  Apologies to all the good BHS instructors out there, I just haven't found you.


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## EventingMum (10 September 2010)

Katt  I can see your point of view, unfortunately I think it would be very hard for the BHS to keep track of everyone who has passed their exams and even harder to police as unlike your profession there is no legislation in place to enforce a requirement to be listed if you are undertaking paid teaching work.  As regards unqualified instructors in riding schools, my insurance company (NFU) requires that all lessons on my yard are supervised by someone with the minimum age of 20 and qualification of BHSAI, whether or not other establishments have the same restriction or adhere to it I dont know.  As regards honesty, I suppose the only way is to ask to see the actual certificates and then presumably a birth certificate or passport to verify who they are  not a realistic solution I accept but surely this sort of problem can arise in many other situations and individuals have to use  their own judgement to some extent to satisfy themselves of the integrity of those they are dealing with.


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## Brandy (10 September 2010)

I think your own instructors CAN become complacent and therefore expect you to pass. 

I passed my stage two, and was one of three out of the whole group. Every one else failed. Yes, many of them weren't great riders but this is a stage 2!! 

The horses were not fantastic, many of the candidates were external. In the first part of the flat work, I saw someone else riding a horse and kept thinking 'please god don't let me get that one' it was quite a poor TB mare, looked thoroughly underfed and peed off. I got her for my next ride. The other rider didn;t manage to get her to canter, and I think one of the reasons I passed was that I thought 'I am not failing this for the sake of not getting the poor creature to canter' By god did I have to ride it though, and give her a smack (I apologised to her for that.....)

Also a lot of the people that failed didn;t ride regularly as in daily. Weekend riders and people doing part time college, no horses of their own and not working with horses - I think this really comes across to the examiners. 

I did quite a few things 'wrong' but it was plain that at the time I was sole groom to 12 large dressage horses!

And I was the ONLY one who knew how to hold a frong leg to take a shoe off (ie between knees) everyone else was holding with one hand and wielding tools with the other!


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## Kat (10 September 2010)

kizzywiz said:



			IME BHS instructors are old fashioned & patronising, concentrating always on the negative.  For me, accredited coaches with competition experience every time.
		
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You can be both  one of my ex instructors is both a BHSI and a BD coach, with competition experience both BD and BE  she was excellent and I only stopped having lessons with her because she stopped teaching at the yard I ride at. She was neither old fashioned or patronising. 

Over the years I've been taught by a variety of instructors with variable levels of experience and qualification and there are good and bad of all types. I think it is well worth seeking out instructors who take their profession seriously enough to have the comitment to go beyond BHSAI though. AIs can be very variable. 

Thinking of all of them, I've had at least two instructors who I know to be unqualified, a couple who went the pony club route, a few who have been training, numerous AIs, a few BHSIs, a BHS young instructor of the year runner up, and have had the opportunity to have a lesson with a FBHS a handful of times too. 

I can honestly say I found two of them patronising, one of those was non-qualified, and the other trained with and worked for an olympic rider and I haven't a clue what her qualifications were.


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## Honey08 (10 September 2010)

Totally agree with what TGM just said.  EventingMum's posts seem the most balanced and mature ones on this thread - which is ironic for all the criticism aimed at the  BHS assessors! 

I failed my stage 2 first time round, and although I was a good little rider, I was 17 and immature - twenty four years later I look back and think that I probably came across as immature and that possibly contributed towards my fail.  Also I was not given enough proper preparation by my instructor at the time (She herself recognised this, and handed mye over to a BHS centre once a week for some "fine tuning") You have to remember that these are professional exams, and you are meant to be a professional.  It just doesn't wash to say you were to shy to answer questions (you weren't ready then) or too stiff due to your age...  

As for those folk saying " I regularly jump 1.10 BSJA, so I ought to pass - a large portion of competitors nowadays only get round because mummy and daddy have bought them expensive ponies/horses that do it all for them.  Quite a lot of affilated competitors don't look good.  Its not about what height you jump, but how you do it!  Obviously some people slip through the net, and you wonder why they fail, but many are obvious.  Quite a lot of people suffer from stage fright - me included.  Personally I think thats my problem, not the BHS's! Nowadays there are so many people who have grown up riding lovely ponies and horses, who then go onto swanky equestrian centres with lovely facilities and can't actually ride that well when they are put on a normal horse.  Equine degree students are often worse. Many of them can write wonderful essays, but have never worked on a yard in their lives, and graduate as "experts" in their field.  There was a letter from Pammy Hutton or Lucinda Green in last week's horse and hound on this subject that was very interesting.  Saying there aren't many practical riders that have learnt the hard way in working pupil positions, and that its a shame.


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## Kat (10 September 2010)

EventingMum said:



			Katt  I can see your point of view, unfortunately I think it would be very hard for the BHS to keep track of everyone who has passed their exams and even harder to police as unlike your profession there is no legislation in place to enforce a requirement to be listed if you are undertaking paid teaching work.  As regards unqualified instructors in riding schools, my insurance company (NFU) requires that all lessons on my yard are supervised by someone with the minimum age of 20 and qualification of BHSAI, whether or not other establishments have the same restriction or adhere to it I dont know.  As regards honesty, I suppose the only way is to ask to see the actual certificates and then presumably a birth certificate or passport to verify who they are  not a realistic solution I accept but surely this sort of problem can arise in many other situations and individuals have to use  their own judgement to some extent to satisfy themselves of the integrity of those they are dealing with.
		
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It should be entirely manageable. 

We aren't required to be on the register by law. It is an offence to claim to be a solicitor when you aren't but that has nothing to do with the register. 

Basically the SRA/ILEX like the BHS are responsible for issuing the qualification, once you have recieved the qualification you go on the register. Each year you have to renew your membership obtain a fresh practicing certificate and undertake continuing professional development. When you do this you are renewed on the register. If you don't you have lapsed and are recorded as such. If you obtain additional qualifications these are added as required. 

There is no reason why something similar couldn't be put in place by the BHS. I certainly think it is important for the itegrety of the profession.


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## YorksG (10 September 2010)

I also think that a lot of the problem is that people are taught by AI's Assistant Instructors, the fact that they are assistants is often forgotten. Too many AI's are encouraged to believe themselves competent to teach without ANY supervision. Again other professions are not only expected to have continuing professional development, but to also having regular and continuing supervision, to ensure that their practise remains competent. From what I have seen many AI's reach this qualification and then set up without further supervision.


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## Snowy Celandine (10 September 2010)

I've got no experience of the actual BHS exam because I declined to take it in the end due to having been undermined week in week out by the training I received at a BHS approved centre.  It was, and remains, a well known equine/agricultural college in the North of England but the trainer was abysmal and reduced my confidence to tatters.  I am not a great rider but I was only doing my Stage 1 and I kept getting told off for having a contact and riding in an outline   I was told that, at my level of riding, I should have long, loose reins so that I did not 'touch' the horse's mouth.

The instructor singled out one person from the group for special criticism each week and that person was usually reduced to tears.  Very humiliating when we were all young adults or older   When it was my week to be picked on, I refused to cry, and starting laughing instead which seemed to piss off the instructor but made me feel better   I was still flummoxed though and, when she shouted loudly at me as I was dismounting, I completely forgot to bend my knees on landing and tumbled on my back like some sort of beetle.  I still laughed so that she didn't think she'd 'won' 

Wonder how many other people she's managed to put off riding?


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## Kat (10 September 2010)

yorksG said:



			I also think that a lot of the problem is that people are taught by AI's Assistant Instructors, the fact that they are assistants is often forgotten. Too many AI's are encouraged to believe themselves competent to teach without ANY supervision. Again other professions are not only expected to have continuing professional development, but to also having regular and continuing supervision, to ensure that their practise remains competent. From what I have seen many AI's reach this qualification and then set up without further supervision.
		
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Agree with that 100%


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## yaddowshad (10 September 2010)

TGM said:



			I have no experience of the BHS exam system, so cannot comment upon its failings and attributes.  However, I can say that if you want people to take your grievances with the system seriously, you need to learn how to present your case in a professional and unemotional manner!  The language used above definitely doesn't do that!!
		
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I do appologise for the offensive language of "DARN" and "CRAP" for goodness sake, best you dont look up FUBAR or you will have a heart attack.

I am very serious about the BHS  Exams and by the people who have responded at least 90% support what i say.

Have you noticed the occupation of the long winded lecturing comments????????


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## galaxy (10 September 2010)

yorksG said:



			I also think that a lot of the problem is that people are taught by AI's Assistant Instructors, the fact that they are assistants is often forgotten. Too many AI's are encouraged to believe themselves competent to teach without ANY supervision. Again other professions are not only expected to have continuing professional development, but to also having regular and continuing supervision, to ensure that their practise remains competent. From what I have seen many AI's reach this qualification and then set up without further supervision.
		
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I can see your point.  That is what it stands for literally.

However as an AI the BHS states that we are capable and qualified to to teach up to Novice level dressage and 2ft6 jumping (this is off the top of my head...  PLEASE someone correct me if I am wrong).  There is no mention anywhere of us having to be supervised or anything of the sort.  We are qualified to teach the "lower skill level" (if you like) of riders out there.


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## WishfulThinker (10 September 2010)

I also think that generally, it is just declining standards across the board.  I know quite a few youngsters who dream of working with horses and becoming instructors, but they really REALLY shouldn't as they can ride ok, but they cant understand they dynamics of it all.  I dont myself understand it enough - even after 16 years I still cant figure out how to teach a horse to do something. But if I go away and research it then I can.  BUT I need to keep looking things up. 

So even though I grumbled before, I am not thinking that maybe loads failing is a very good way of separating the wheat from the chaff?   And that they need to maybe split the stages further - to have a Professional stage and a Leisure stage (do they do this already??).  And have the leisure one in smaller increments? 

But as reference........I used to when I was younger work at a local dressage stud.  I got to ride and school the horses and I would get taught by this german guy who was over to learn about studs before he opened his own one.  He was impressed and I got offered an apprentiship with him (I couldnt go as I was only 13 - he thought I was 16).  However, I could never get past my Blue Ribbon at the riding school I went to. No matter how hard I tried.  My mum used to think it was because I hated jumping.  But, It was just that I didnt ride the way they wanted me to, but I still knew how to ride. 
But carrying on from that and reverting to what I said before.............I didnt ride for a good 4 years and during that time I think I almost completely forgot EVERYTHING I ever learnt!  I couldnt(and still cant) remember my diagonals, haha.  I need to refresh myself every so often or it all goes to **** basically. 

I have completely lost the point I was about to make.....................It's friday.  I want to go home!


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## yaddowshad (10 September 2010)

By the way im using Yaddowshads forum but I am not Yaddowshad, im actually a fully qualified riding instructor who strongly believes an injustice has been done to some candidates and i find it quite alarming that you assessors and so called AI instructors have not once taken the side of failed candidates who feel they should not have failed.  I for one think you are very one sided for not even asking why i feel they shouldnt have failed, has it crossed your minds that I may indeed be an examiner myself???????????????


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## YorksG (10 September 2010)

galaxy23 said:



			I can see your point.  That is what it stands for literally.

However as an AI the BHS states that we are capable and qualified to to teach up to Novice level dressage and 2ft6 jumping (this is off the top of my head...  PLEASE someone correct me if I am wrong).  There is no mention anywhere of us having to be supervised or anything of the sort.  We are qualified to teach the "lower skill level" (if you like) of riders out there.
		
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I am qualified to Masters level in my chosen profession, with many years experience, I still have supervision each month from a person who is equally qualified in my chosen specialism. I also supervise others. The fact that AI's do not consider that they require any form of supervision rather confirms my opinion of them tbh.
It is my understanding that the original concept of AI. II and I were meant to be just that. I am actually quite horrified to learn that AI's consider themselves so competent that they do not need any ongoing CDC and supervisiom


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## Kat (10 September 2010)

YorksG I agree regarding supervision and continual professional development, most professions are the same. My own requires ongoing training even at the very highest level, and at every firm I have worked at there is peer review and audit of even the most senior staff. As someone said on another thread, the day you think you have nothing left to learn is the day you should give up or something like that. It seems that there is perhaps a lack of humility from some. 

Yaddowshad - why don't you enlighten us as to your precise qualifications, and your role at the stage 2 exams rather than being cryptic it might actually contribute to the debate and help us to understand where you are coming from.


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## yaddowshad (10 September 2010)

In France I have been told that a BHS AI isnt qualified to teach over there and that they are only permitted to take rides out hacking.  Now im not saying an AI isnt a good teacher as I know some AIs who are far better than BHS1s and a couple of FBHS who ive met over the years. However they are ASSISTANTS (clues in the title). 

Do you know nearly 3000 hits have gone on this forum so it has certainly struck a cord with a lot of people, maybe the executives of the BHS should perhaps take peoples opinions and grievences more seriously in the future and get out from behind their desks and sort it out.


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## DragonSlayer (10 September 2010)

yorksG said:



			I am qualified to Masters level in my chosen profession, with many years experience, I still have supervision each month from a person who is equally qualified in my chosen specialism. I also supervise others. The fact that AI's do not consider that they require any form of supervision rather confirms my opinion of them tbh.
It is my understanding that the original concept of AI. II and I were meant to be just that. I am actually quite horrified to learn that AI's consider themselves so competent that they do not need any ongoing CDC and supervisiom 

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Not all....

My instructor is an AI....'getting in years' dare I say, and SHE still has regular lessons, she also competes herself...

Some people are beginning to generalise a little too much here....


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## Weezy (10 September 2010)

I have forked out for a lesson from a FBHS, in fact some may say this person is one of the most highly regarded and qualified people representing the BHS.

The lesson was dreadful - the person gave me about 10 mins instruction, to which there was absolutely no improvement as I had explained there wouldn't be and I made them get on my horse to prove it.  This person got on my horse, rode her for about 5 mins, got off and said *OK that will do, quite frankly just continue with what you are doing, I cannot make her go any better than you can* and charged me full price.  I was spitting, I am not *all that* and most people can make my horses go better than I can!


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## TGM (10 September 2010)

yaddowshad said:



			I do appologise for the offensive language of "DARN" and "CRAP" for goodness sake, best you dont look up FUBAR or you will have a heart attack.
		
Click to expand...

I think you miss the point entirely!  It is not the individual terms that are the problem, but the lack of reasoning and sensible argument in some of your postings!  You need to state clearly and unemotionally exactly what the failings in the system are (ie more than just 'people say it is crap' and 'it needs to sort itself out') and what can be done to improve things.  If you look at some of the other posts on this thread (from posters on both sides of the argument) you can see how other people do this, with the result that what they have to say is taken more seriously.

Judging by the number of postings you have made on this subject, you feel strongly about it, so if you want to pursue the issue then do so in a way that portrays you as professional and reasonable person, and not an angry individual with an axe to grind.


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## yaddowshad (10 September 2010)

Yaddowshad - why don't you enlighten us as to your precise qualifications, and your role at the stage 2 exams rather than being cryptic it might actually contribute to the debate and help us to understand where you are coming from.[/QUOTE]

Katt: Like I mentioned earlier Im not Yaddowshad but i am using this forum with permission from Yaddowshad.  Sometimes you have to be a bit Cryptic to get your point across and gain other peoples points of view also you should never show your hand too early.

What I can say is that this thread has had nearly 3000 hits and the discussions are fascinating, being annonomous is the beauty of this forum as people are free to say what they like with no direct retaliation aimed at them.  I know that certain people would love to know who I am but that aint happening anytime soon as I think more discussion and points of view are needed to gain any change what so ever.


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## yaddowshad (10 September 2010)

TGM: You are correct in your assumption that I am extremely angry and have an axe to grind, the reasons have been portryed in a very down to earth way so that all on this forum can understand it this is why so many people have responded.

I could have laid down a debate with reasonable argument on both sides but I guarantee you the results would not have been the same.

I am more than happy to recieve a lecture on preparing and presenting an argument but I think I had enough of that when I took my Masters degree at university.


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## Kat (10 September 2010)

I didn't ask who you are just for your qualification and role within the exams. 

It is difficult to know how much weight to give your comments without knowing that. 

For example you could be one of the candidates, in which case I may not place much weight on your assessment of the quality of the assessment. You could be staff at the exam centre (which is the impression I got from your OP) in which case slightly more weight but still likely to be some bias. You could be an assessor or examiner in which case I would be questionning why you didn't intervene and why you aren't doing anything directly rather than posting on a forum. 

You might be any number of other things, but it makes a huge difference to how your story is interpreted. 

Oh and why borrow someone's log in, the forum is free, you can create your own with an anonymous name if you want to - then you don't have to keep correcting us when we call you by the screen name you are using.


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## touchstone (10 September 2010)

I qualified as a BHSAI over twenty seven years ago after a gruelling 18 months as a working pupil.  It was hard work and we had to ride/teach well above the standard required before we were allowed to put in for our exams, which back then were the ptt and horsemasters exam along with stage I, II and III.   Out of the six people I know who took their BHSAI at around the same time only three passed first time and two of those who failed went on to resit and passed the second time around.  But failing did give them pointers to work on for the next time and improved them, even though it was an expensive exercise.  I do think that working with horses day in day out is a much better basis for getting through the exams rather than some of the college based courses.

Nowadays I see more AI's that are incapable of producing a decent horse and giving good instruction, so there must be something going wrong somewhere, and I worry that the danger is that we are 'dumbing down' the exam system; I'd be more worried about people passing the exam too easily than those that are failing to be perfectly honest, although obviously if there were genuine concerns about 'deliberate' failures then that needs investigating.


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## Rowreach (10 September 2010)

Yaddowshad (or whoever you are) - you are being very unprofessional about this.

Frankly I am shocked that you have taken this debate onto this forum.  Take your grievances to the BHS.  They have worked very very hard in recent years to evolve and improve the exam system which, after all, is internationally recognised.  They will, I am sure, be interested in your views about this particular exam.  If you are right, I am equally sure steps will be taken.

I am pro BHS.  I train people to take BHS exams.  Often people come to me thinking that the exams are a walk in the park, and often they are sadly overestimating their own abilities.  Candidates fail exams all by themselves - assessors (or examiners) do not fail people.  I am pretty good at predicting who will pass and who will fail (barring unforeseen circumstances) and the whole point of an exam is that you have to achieve a certain standard in order to pass it.

The reasons the candidates failed will be given to them in writing in a few day's time.  It is no longer possible to give candidates results on the day and a debrief like they used to, because of the unreasonable attitudes of some of those who fail

The reason the exams are so expensive is that the centres charge a lot of money (which they need to given what they are providing) and each exam requires a number of assessors to be present - ask EventingMum, I'm sure she'll tell you she doesn't make her millions doing this job, but the expenses involved certainly mount up.

Be glad you don't have to do your exams in NI/RoI where they are even more expensive.


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## yaddowshad (10 September 2010)

KATT: Thank you for your comments, yes I could be in one of those catagories otherwise why would I be there?

However its irrelevant as so many people have put forward excellent discussions so my point of view has paled into insignificance.

Thank you to all those who have looked at this forum and especially those that felt strongly enough to reply to it whichever side of the fence you stand, all opinions are valid and worthwhile.

Perhaps the BHS might like to consider the amount of hits and opinions which people have made.

I know the fails which I saw were unfair and nothing will change my mind on that as I was there.  But Im also aware that precious little will be done about it, all i can do is let people know that there are other routes into teaching without having to go through the BHS.

Well Im off on holiday for a week, thanks to Yaddowshad for allowing me to use the forum.


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## yaddowshad (10 September 2010)

[QUOTE=

I am pro BHS.  I train people to take BHS exams.  Often people come to me thinking that the exams are a walk in the park, and often they are sadly overestimating their own abilities.  Candidates fail exams all by themselves - assessors (or examiners) do not fail people.  I am pretty good at predicting who will pass and who will fail (barring unforeseen circumstances) and the whole point of an exam is that you have to achieve a certain standard in order to pass it.

Well, doesnt that say it all "candidates fail themselves" and you call yourself an instructor, you are the very reason people are fed up with BHS Instructors and examiners, none of you take responsibility for your own faults.

You are even pshycic predicting who will fail and who will pass, perhaps you could save the potential failures a bit of cash by telling them your predictions before they waste their money.

"Examiners dont fail people" get a grip on reality.

Out of interest do you tell your clients they are likely to fail or do you just keep taking their money for lessons?????

Dont talk to me about professional you havent got a clue.


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## teapot (10 September 2010)

Interesting to know that a centre must be qualified to a level higher than what they can offer for training. More interesting is that my local where to train yard (one of the ones that Galaxy mentioned) is no longer on the BHS Where to Train list online.

Such a shame as this area needs some decent trianing centres. 

I guess I sit on the fence with the BHS as I've not (yet) failed anything through them. However, I do think parts of the riding exams are outdated and a rethink is needed with regards to what you look like rather than being effective. I'd rather fail for not being effective enough than not holding my forward lightseat for the right amount of time etc. 

Also, the whole 'you must be able to jump' to teach and not having any other way of getting a decent teaching qualification. Given that 95% of jumping is flatwork, why should someone have to prove themselves over a course of 2ft6/3ft/whatever when they're only concerned about flatwork?


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## DellaHorse (25 October 2010)

Also I love how all BHS examiners are unfit, overweight and unattractive..they gotta get their kicks from somewhere. I want to say..honey you'll NEVER look good on a horse.


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## soulfull (25 October 2010)

Like a lot of you have said it has always been similar  but I think it definitely is a money making scam!!!

This is the reason years ago I did the 1,2,3 courses but never bothered with the exams.  I didn't need them for any reason but wanted the knowledge at the time.

A friend who backed, schooled naughty horses and was always the one people asked to get on theirs, failed stage 1 riding!!  never right in a million years


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## TopTotty (25 October 2010)

I have to say I have read this thread and can see both sides.  I have my BHSAI Int SM and my NVQ level three and my Certificate in Education.  I failed my stage two riding once and failed my stage three riding four times (each on something different) before passing.  I could have given up at this point but it made me more determined to pass.  When I look back at some of my riding videos now I agree that I was probably not upto the level required although my instructor said I was.  
I took the exams for myself so that I could learn more but they have now provided me with a livelyhood for which I am very grateful.  I am constantly trying to improve my knowledge and my skills so I can pass them on to the clients that I teach.
I have five horses, two that I have bred and two that I compete at BE, BS and BD and I own a livery yard.  The qualifications have helped with insurance for my business and have given many livery yard clients peace of mind.  
I have also many years of experience in the horse world and having been yard manager at the Thoroughbred Rehabilitation Centre for seven years have gained invaluable experience dealing with highly strung horses that require sensitive riding and have dealt with a lot of injuries.
I think that there is always two side to every story and as has been shown on here people need to disagree as everyone has their own opinion.  If your opinion is that strong then take it to someone who can do something about it.  I am sure you will be helping a lot of people along the way.
I am proud of my qualifications as I know how hard I had to work to acheive them.


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## misterjinglejay (25 October 2010)

I'm having to take my ridden stages at the moment (I qualified for my grooms cert years ago), but having been taught 'classical' dressage, am a bit concerned as to whether I can pass even stage 1.

The EC I work at is opening a riding school, and I have been offered the chance to teach there, if I can get my PTT (for starters), so I am following this thread with interest. 

Echoing Katt, it would be useful to be able to judge how unbiased the OP is (or not!!!).


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