# Conflicting ideas..



## Olliepoppy (21 July 2017)

Hi, I would like to ask people's opinions on napping/nervousness in horses when hacking out.  There seems to be two main trains of thought on how to deal with this. 

1) push the horse on past whatever is bothering them 
2) allow the horse to stop and process, moving forward when the horse relaxes

As far as I can tell number 1 has the school of thought that if you let the horse stop it is in control and not the rider. 
Number 2 seems to have the train or thought that the horse will grow in confidence if not forced to do things.

I'm interested to hear peoples views on this, especially as I'm just about to take on a loan horse who moonwalks backwards if unsure of things!

Thanks in advance


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## WandaMare (21 July 2017)

I think it depends on the horse, some need assertive riding so 1. would be the best approach, otherwise they would start to take the p*e very quickly, for a more nervous horse who is purely lacking confidence or genuinely scared,  then 2. would be more appropriate. The skill is working out the right approach for the individual horse, so I would just do a bit of experimenting and see how you get on. In my experience horses like to feel confident leadership from the rider but this needs to be balanced with patience where you encounter genuine scary things.


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## ihatework (21 July 2017)

Olliepoppy said:



			Hi, I would like to ask people's opinions on napping/nervousness in horses when hacking out.  There seems to be two main trains of thought on how to deal with this. 

1) push the horse on past whatever is bothering them 
2) allow the horse to stop and process, moving forward when the horse relaxes

As far as I can tell number 1 has the school of thought that if you let the horse stop it is in control and not the rider. 
Number 2 seems to have the train or thought that the horse will grow in confidence if not forced to do things.

I'm interested to hear peoples views on this, especially as I'm just about to take on a loan horse who moonwalks backwards if unsure of things!

Thanks in advance
		
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Tricky. Neither is wrong, it just slightly depends on the horse and the circumstance.
If the horse was quite a frequent napper/running back type then I would approach it first by driving them on and not pandering to the nonsense. With the caveat being that if behaviour wasn't improving to try another approach.

If however I had a horse that wasn't a serial napper and something genuinely takes them by fright, I'd happily give them chance to look and move on.


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## Shay (21 July 2017)

One is the answer to napping and the other to nervousness.  They are not the same.  There is no point being assertive / aggressive with a horse who is genuinely scared.  You need to support them and help them overcome whatever pony eating fear they have.  A napping horse is just being disobedient - or possibly showing reaction to pain - but either way is refusing to do what is asked rather than too afraid to do it.

Distinguishing which is a bit of an art and there is no easy description of either.  Figuring it out is trial and error as much as anything.  Experienced eyes on the ground can help.


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## Olliepoppy (21 July 2017)

Nothing is straightforward when it comes to horses is it? In the case of this horse, when she goes backwards, which appears to be generally more nappiness than nervousness there is no amount of assertive riding will get her to go forward, she just carries on going backwards.. 
She has got quite attached to home/her fieldmate and basically refuses to go past the end of her field just now.  She is coming to stay with me where she will be next-door to another horse rather than in the same field so I am hoping to overcome this behavior but driving forward, even backed up by stick, really doesn't work as I've watched her owner use this method to no avail.


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## Apercrumbie (21 July 2017)

It can also depend on the situation you're in - it isn't always safe on a hack in particular to have a huge argument with a horse. Unless you're on a very quiet road without huge ditches either side, a horse that is spinning, rearing, plunging, reversing could be extremely dangerous. In that case, it would be safer for horse, rider and anyone in the vicinity to calmly wait and then move on. As a rider you have to be pragmatic.


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## be positive (21 July 2017)

Olliepoppy said:



			Nothing is straightforward when it comes to horses is it? In the case of this horse, when she goes backwards, which appears to be generally more nappiness than nervousness there is no amount of assertive riding will get her to go forward, she just carries on going backwards.. 
She has got quite attached to home/her fieldmate and basically refuses to go past the end of her field just now.  She is coming to stay with me where she will be next-door to another horse rather than in the same field so I am hoping to overcome this behavior but driving forward, even backed up by stick, really doesn't work as I've watched her owner use this method to no avail.
		
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Probably no amount of sitting and waiting will work either, it may be that moving her will bring about a change but established behaviour such as this can be hard to get over, I would approach it in a totally different way, if she tried it on once she arrived, by long reining her that way you can drive her forward and the horse learns to go forward without the rider having a possible negative influence, running backwards is nearly always caused by the rider and is one of the most difficult things to correct as hitting them nearly always makes then go even faster, on long reins it can be nipped in the bud more easily, you do need to be skilled to do so.


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## ihatework (21 July 2017)

Olliepoppy said:



			Nothing is straightforward when it comes to horses is it? In the case of this horse, when she goes backwards, which appears to be generally more nappiness than nervousness there is no amount of assertive riding will get her to go forward, she just carries on going backwards.. 
She has got quite attached to home/her fieldmate and basically refuses to go past the end of her field just now.  She is coming to stay with me where she will be next-door to another horse rather than in the same field so I am hoping to overcome this behavior but driving forward, even backed up by stick, really doesn't work as I've watched her owner use this method to no avail.
		
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Have someone on the ground behind you. If you are intending to take the horse on you kind of have to see it through. But I would say don't immediately set yourself up to fail. Nappy horse in new environment = very nappy horse. Get yourself an equine escort to start with. Have a think about getting her out long lining etc. As and when you do start hacking alone the run backwards very fast tactic can often be countered by spinning them. If you keep ending up the wrong way reversing them in the direction you wish to go is an option. A well time crack up the Jacksy also needs to be in the toolbox


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## Amye (21 July 2017)

Like others have said, it depends on the horse and the circumstance. My boy was quite nappy when I first got him 2 years ago, I couldn't get him half a field length before we would have planting and going backwards. He was very much lacking in confidence at going alone, would rather stay at home, and I had to push him through it. 
It got to the point where I had to do both approaches though. With things I knew we'd been past a million times and he was just being silly I'd push through and keep him going. With something new to him/genuinely scary I would let him look for a few seconds and then gently ask to walk on, if we went backwards I'd let him settle and then walk on. Now I only really have to do the second approach as he is much much better and only really plants when he is very unsure. 

I guess it's knowing your horse and knowing when they are genuinely scared!


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## Olliepoppy (21 July 2017)

be positive said:



			Probably no amount of sitting and waiting will work either, it may be that moving her will bring about a change but established behaviour such as this can be hard to get over, I would approach it in a totally different way, if she tried it on once she arrived, by long reining her that way you can drive her forward and the horse learns to go forward without the rider having a possible negative influence, running backwards is nearly always caused by the rider and is one of the most difficult things to correct as hitting them nearly always makes then go even faster, on long reins it can be nipped in the bud more easily, you do need to be skilled to do so.
		
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Unfortunately I am not skilled in long reining, I have only poddled about in a field long reining never on the roads..


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## Olliepoppy (21 July 2017)

I had thought about the reversing the way I want to go option! I guess as everyone is saying it will be trial and error, I just don't want to make to many errors!


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## be positive (21 July 2017)

Olliepoppy said:



			Unfortunately I am not skilled in long reining, I have only poddled about in a field long reining never on the roads..
		
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Are you skilled enough to ride through this? if not either get professional help or don't take it on, a nappy horse is not something to deal with alone and certainly not taking on someone else's problem horse.


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## supsup (21 July 2017)

I had a trainer once explain to me that allowing a horse to look/sniff and wait before tackling an "obstacle" was a bit like asking a toddler whether they like something or not. You give the horse the option to decide for himself whether the situation is safe. The risk with this approach is that horses don't think like humans, and his conclusion may well be: no, the situation is not safe. And if you then insist that it is, it can be a bit like a toddler having a tantrum if they say no, but you insist on saying yes.
The alternative approach of taking charge and firmly riding past is more akin to taking the toddler's hand making the decision for them. They may still throw a tantrum, but chances are it's less likely than if you first offer them a choice, and then insist they do the opposite of what they've chosen.

For me, the moral of the story was: Only let them look if you are quite sure you can predict that they will choose sensibly to go past. If you can anticipate that they will object if given a choice, then you may be better of trying the firm option, or even better, changing the situation altogether.

My gelding and I got "stuck" in a rut at one point with him always napping at the same noisy manhole cover along the road to my instructor's yard. He doesn't nap at anything else. It got so bad that he anticipated the manhole cover a hundred yards up the road. Initially, and on good days, I could ride him past it with the firm approach, but that just added to the stress he associated with that spot. It just got a bit too dangerous depending on traffic. In the end, the most effective way of dealing with the issue was to get off before he started napping, de-stress and avoid the whole problem (no issue leading him past), and just get on the other side.


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## Olliepoppy (21 July 2017)

be positive said:



			Are you skilled enough to ride through this? if not either get professional help or don't take it on, a nappy horse is not something to deal with alone and certainly not taking on someone else's problem horse.
		
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I believe so. She only did the moonwalk last year if she was worried about something so I know she can be good. Last year she was next-door to other horses rather than in same field. She also has not been in much work this year. She is not generally a naughty horse and I truly believe with consistency and the right approach for her she will come good, it's just knowing what the right approach is!


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## Olliepoppy (21 July 2017)

supsup said:



			I had a trainer once explain to me that allowing a horse to look/sniff and wait before tackling an "obstacle" was a bit like asking a toddler whether they like something or not. You give the horse the option to decide for himself whether the situation is safe. The risk with this approach is that horses don't think like humans, and his conclusion may well be: no, the situation is not safe. And if you then insist that it is, it can be a bit like a toddler having a tantrum if they say no, but you insist on saying yes.
The alternative approach of taking charge and firmly riding past is more akin to taking the toddler's hand making the decision for them. They may still throw a tantrum, but chances are it's less likely than if you first offer them a choice, and then insist they do the opposite of what they've chosen.

For me, the moral of the story was: Only let them look if you are quite sure you can predict that they will choose sensibly to go past. If you can anticipate that they will object if given a choice, then you may be better of trying the firm option, or even better, changing the situation altogether.

My gelding and I got "stuck" in a rut at one point with him always napping at the same noisy manhole cover along the road to my instructor's yard. He doesn't nap at anything else. It got so bad that he anticipated the manhole cover a hundred yards up the road. Initially, and on good days, I could ride him past it with the firm approach, but that just added to the stress he associated with that spot. It just got a bit too dangerous depending on traffic. In the end, the most effective way of dealing with the issue was to get off before he started napping, de-stress and avoid the whole problem (no issue leading him past), and just get on the other side.
		
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I like that approach but at 5' 1 and she's 16.2 it's not so easy to hop on and off!


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