# Renting stables from your home



## squiz22 (3 January 2013)

Hi All,

My husband and I are interested in a house which has 8 stables and whilst I'd love 8 horses I think its more realistic that I will have mine and let out a further 3/4 although this depends on the amount of extra grazing we can lease. 

Does anyone do this and how does it work on a practical level both in terms of running a business from home and using the land use as more than just private use? Some people have suggested its fine so long as the stables are DIY and you aren't opertating as a 'livery' business? 

Any info on this would be much appreciated!


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## Pinkvboots (3 January 2013)

My house has stables I did consider renting some but even if you accept money for them is classed as earnings, you may be leaving yourself open to being sued if you dont have the necessary insurance like you would need with a business, at the end of the day its a big liability taking people and there horses even if it is diy, I also am not keen on people coming and going in what is my back garden really, I would look into it as it could turn into a nightmare you know what some people can be like, good luck in whatever you decide, it is lovely having them at home though.


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## Polos Mum (3 January 2013)

I'd think very carefully about the implications on insurance, tax and your mortage as even one DIY will count as a 'business'. 
You'll be amazed how easily spare stables are used for storage! 
3 DIY's at £20 a week is only £240 a month and for that you'll get strangers wondering all over your property at all times, mess everywhere, calls for help when they can't come to look after their own, damage to your property (stable/ fencing) that you think is unreasonable but they think is general wear and tear, failure to pay, having your stuff 'borrowed', etc. etc.  the list goes on!


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## squiz22 (3 January 2013)

It would be more a case of renting to some friends that I'm currently in livery with. It would help them out but at the same time enable me to ahve cover when i'm away.. mutually beneficial. I wouldn't be advertising the stables or anything.


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## L&M (3 January 2013)

Tbh if renting to friends, it may be even more of a minefield - it is easier to 'remonstrate' a client, than a friend.

I have done liveries from my home and bar 3 people, all have been problematic. You assume people will treat your home with the same respect as you would, and have similiar standards, but this is rarely the case. I have had all manner of 'incidents' occur that I don't want to discuss on here, but it has got to the stage in the past where I have hidden in the house as can't face going onto my own yard.

If you do go ahead, make sure you have a watertight contract and set clear yard rules - then if anything goes wrong you have them as a back up.

My New Years resolution is to find an alternative source of income and return my home to the sanctuary it should be!


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## lachlanandmarcus (3 January 2013)

squiz22 said:



			Hi All,

My husband and I are interested in a house which has 8 stables and whilst I'd love 8 horses I think its more realistic that I will have mine and let out a further 3/4 although this depends on the amount of extra grazing we can lease. 

Does anyone do this and how does it work on a practical level both in terms of running a business from home and using the land use as more than just private use? Some people have suggested its fine so long as the stables are DIY and you aren't opertating as a 'livery' business? 

Any info on this would be much appreciated!
		
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In theory if you take any money for livery, its a business, DIY or not makes no difference. Some authorities tend to turn a blind eye to one (or maybe two) liveries between friends, but no guarantees. Also need to bear in mind the planning stipulations when the stables were granted PP to be put up - mine specified for private use only - if yours do too then its much harder to argue grey areas. 

If you need extra land to make the extra stables a viable concern I would forget it and enjoy the stables yourself, it would be very hard to make it stack up financially and a lot of hassle/annoyance. By the time you paid the land rent and the insurance you would absolutely need for having people on the yard you would not make any money from DIY.


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## Skippys Mum (3 January 2013)

Been there, done that and will never ever do it again.  I have the odd pal who comes for short times at no charge (one friend gets a loan horse over the summer but the horse goes back for winter and currently another friends 2 are here as she is on holiday).

People do not treat your property the way you want it treated and you are left to pick up the tab.  Honestly, I wouldnt have liveries again for all the tea in China


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## Redluckypenny1 (3 January 2013)

All the tax, insurance and money aside, I wouldn't ever do it again.  I could write a book on the pitfalls.  I think it is even harder when 'friends' are invloved.  You need to be extreamly tough and true to all decisions that you make and unfortunately people don't treat your property like you would like them to.  I had liveries pitch up and sit at the bbq table when we had friends and family over because they wanted to chat.  Unfortunately you become the 24/7 chat line for all their problems.  Let them stay at the current yard and come and visit.  Much better and you get the best of both worlds.  Peace and quiet at home and company when you want it!

At the end of the day, you will make whatever decision you think is best for you, but I honestly wished I had listened to my friend who said, DON'T DO IT!!

Good luck with your new home, sounds very exciting!


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## Clodagh (3 January 2013)

I did it for a couple of years with one very good friend who knew our house was our sanctuary. It worked pretty well generally except I always did the ins/outs, cos I was there. I always did the late night check and topped up waters/changed rugs as necessary. One night I rang her at about 11 pm as it looked as though her horse was colicing and she said 'Oh, I've had a drink so can't come up, can you just let me know if it gets any worse'...


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## Polos Mum (3 January 2013)

I have to agree, friends are worse as you'll find it more difficult to lay down the law.  I got my fingers well and truely burned by a 'friend', she damaged my property, disappeared for 2 weeks having 'lost' her phone!, didn't pay me and left when I insisted she get a vet to her very lame horse.  
If you really want to write a very long very detailed contract that covers all rules/ nice to haves and stick to them from day one.
There are some good threads on here about what to put in a livery contract. 

I have 12 acres, 7 stable and just the two boys and we are very happy with it that way. 

If your worried about missing company being at home on your own, invest your time/ cash in transport so you can go hacking with them, go to clinics/ competitions etc.


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## LynH (3 January 2013)

I have planning permission for private use only but my local council said that renting out one or two stables would be viewed the same as renting out one it two rooms to lodgers and would still be considered as private use. It wouldn't be viewed as a business as long as  I didn't look after someone else's horses or did anything more than just rent a 'room' to them. I've yet to check the tax implications or business rates but insurance wise you can get public liability insurance for less than 6 horses to cover this.


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## Baggybreeches (3 January 2013)

TBH I am inclined to agree with the others. I have had a couple of liveries (one at a time) I have 5 stables and 2 of my own horses (I now also have a donkey and a goat so they need a stable each  ). I had friends and their family and I am quite laid back but my OH got stressed because in his eyes they weren't keeping their horse to the standard that he was used to (because he was used to my way of doing things). I found his worry about this more stressful than anything else. We all went our separate ways on good terms as they wanted 24/7 turnout for the horse which I couldn't offer.

The key thing is to not bite your tongue and let things go until they cause you to get bitter, I think if you are used each other's ways in shouldn't be too much hassle.

The one biggest thing to remember is HORSES BREAK STUFF and if it's at your own place, it's you who needs to fix it!

ETA I do have a foal in on full livery at the moment, which is great, the horses are a doddle it's the people that cause the problems


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (3 January 2013)

OP can I suggest to you that you may be heading into stormy waters if you let friends into what is basically YOUR home, as "liveries".

Yes I know OK so you get on fine at the moment, where you're probably all mucking in together in the yard where you're at, and getting along fine (and having a good old whinge at the YO), BUT remember - YOU will be the YO, YOU will be the boss-cocky from now on, and that could well cause resentment and stirrings of rebellion among your friends. 

You will be in a totally different position to being a fellow-livery alongside them, you will now be the YO and as such will undoubtedly be in a position futuristically where you have to lay down the law.

I think you have to adopt a totally businesslike approach in all this; I'm a DIY YO and I've very often had to make difficult decisions about horses/people and if its "friends" it would horribly complicate the whole thing.

Having said that, I have counted my liveries as "friends" - some have moved on having stayed here for a number of years and we've got a super relationship even now. My current livery I would actually count as a "friend" as she's so lovely....... but that said, I think you would live to regret the decision if you filled your yards with your current friends.

But hey, its your place, your call, your decision!


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## Tiffany (3 January 2013)

I can't understand why people don't respect and look after other peoples property 

If I was given the opportunity of renting a place at someones home I would make sure the place was spotlessly clean and we didn't cause them any problems 

I'm at a  livery yard and always try to respect the YOs privacy, keep the place tidy and pay on time.


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## Adopter (4 January 2013)

We manage our land through a good neighbour arrangement, my neighbour puts his sheep on our field to help keep grass under control and gives us a butchered lamb for the freezer, and  hay for the ponies.  No money changes hands, we also know that he is around if we are out or away to keep an eye on our home.

I also think it depends what sort of friends you are talking about, have you known them a long time, how well do you really know them.  I think I would trust a lifelong friend who has a horse not to abuse using my boxes and field, but would come to a mutual arrangement without money and get it written down so there are not misunderstandings.

I do agree with the comment that you can never have too much storage space, my OH has filled our barn with his machinery and we have had to put up alternative accomodation for the animals!


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## paulineh (4 January 2013)

What a shame people feel that having a friend or two as liveries is a bad thing.

In the past I have had normal liveries and it has not worked. I now have a friend and it works out much better. We help each other out. 

I have a clear set of rules which we both stick to.


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## squiz22 (4 January 2013)

Wow! Thanks everyone for your responses they are certainly very interesting and I'm surprised by how many are discouraging me from doing it. As I had seen it, I am the YO and I would have a contract drawn up and the cost of the friend would probably help go towards the additional grazing which I would want with or without her horse so that I can maintain my own to a decent level year round. 
The friend would have a quiet private yard to keep her horse at whilst I would get an extra set of hands when I am not around (mutaually beneficial). At the moment I turn hers out because I am down super early and brings in because shes down about 3/ 4 everyday and I'm not down until 5.30 and won't leave them out that late in the dark which would be the same at home so I would gain this additional help in having her. I also event so having someone able to do the odd bring in whilst I'm competing would be a real help. I'd seen this as a two way thing. I think that its clear we'd need to have a clear set of rules and make sure we have a very open relationship ensure nothing is left unsaid so it escalates. 
Lots to think about... thank you!


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## squiz22 (4 January 2013)

LynH said:



			I have planning permission for private use only but my local council said that renting out one or two stables would be viewed the same as renting out one it two rooms to lodgers and would still be considered as private use. It wouldn't be viewed as a business as long as  I didn't look after someone else's horses or did anything more than just rent a 'room' to them. I've yet to check the tax implications or business rates but insurance wise you can get public liability insurance for less than 6 horses to cover this.
		
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Thanks for this.. i think this is where I was muddling diy vs livery because when on a small scale like this so long as you aren't offering a service then its slightly easier and more a case of renting a 'room'. I've found the correct number for the Council and I'm going t discuss this with them just to be absolutely sure. 
Thanks


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## Polos Mum (4 January 2013)

Sadly I think if you are turning out and looking after hers when she is on holiday that is just the type of 'service' that makes the arrangement much more than just the 'rent a room' the council might be OK with. 
On a DIY yard if the YO turned out for me I would expect to pay for this as an additional service, same with 'full livery' while I was on holiday. 

It sounds like you really want to do it, so take all the precautions and try it for a while - just make sure your friends don't burn their bridges with the livery yard owner where you currently are so if it doesn't work out (for what ever reason) there is no problem with them going back. 

I don't know what happens if you 'breach' planning rules in this way, I guess the council can't get you to pull down your stables only get you to throw your friend out?  A lot will depend on your neighbours and how much they choose to report you for people coming and going all the time.


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## Baggybreeches (4 January 2013)

Polos Mum said:



			I don't know what happens if you 'breach' planning rules in this way, I guess the council can't get you to pull down your stables only get you to throw your friend out?  A lot will depend on your neighbours and how much they choose to report you for people coming and going all the time.
		
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They can't make you pull down the stables that are already there with PP granted, what they can do (worst case scenario) is issue a notice of cessation (to stop what you are doing which breaches your PP). 

In the example the OP gives where she has one person with 2 horses (?) I think this would be classed as the rent a room situation (especially as the OP would not be charging for TO because the other person is bringing in).

Chat to your council planning officer, in our experiences (with 2 councils) they have been tremendously helpful, the only person who is less than helpful is the enforcement officer (who we keep proving wrong with his little nuances backed by the local crank!)


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## beth21 (4 January 2013)

Just thought I'd put my opinion in 

I'm afraid when it comes to the practical, business side of things I haven't got a clue. But I do rent a stable from a small private yard that is on the YO's property. There are 5 stables, only three are used, the other two live out. 

I couldn't be any happier with the situation and wouldn't dream of taking advantage of the YO. Quite often it's a case of give and take, she does something for me and I'll do something for her. I haven't spoken to her on the phone once, we have a whiteboard we leave messages that aren't urgent on. 

I work late so often go up in the morning and feed all five, muck my own out and in return don't have to go down in the evenings. I've been in the house a few times when invited, but have never taken advantage and we have a set of rules (mainly for health and safety) written up that I had to sign.

I'm not saying it will be perfect and you do need to be completely certain of what you're taking on, do your research, and think it through. Make sure you set clear boundaries and if you're worried about being taken advantage of, stick to the rule that everyone does their own horses at all times apart from odd occasions. It really can work out and it's brilliant when it does! I now have some great friends to hack out with, to lend me a hand and we even socialise outside of horses together (I didn't know them before). 

It won't all be butterflies and rainbows but there are a lot of negative comments on this thread, just wanted to share my own positive experience to show that it can work


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## squiz22 (4 January 2013)

beth21 said:



			Just thought I'd put my opinion in 

I'm afraid when it comes to the practical, business side of things I haven't got a clue. But I do rent a stable from a small private yard that is on the YO's property. There are 5 stables, only three are used, the other two live out. 

I couldn't be any happier with the situation and wouldn't dream of taking advantage of the YO. Quite often it's a case of give and take, she does something for me and I'll do something for her. I haven't spoken to her on the phone once, we have a whiteboard we leave messages that aren't urgent on. 

I work late so often go up in the morning and feed all five, muck my own out and in return don't have to go down in the evenings. I've been in the house a few times when invited, but have never taken advantage and we have a set of rules (mainly for health and safety) written up that I had to sign.

I'm not saying it will be perfect and you do need to be completely certain of what you're taking on, do your research, and think it through. Make sure you set clear boundaries and if you're worried about being taken advantage of, stick to the rule that everyone does their own horses at all times apart from odd occasions. It really can work out and it's brilliant when it does! I now have some great friends to hack out with, to lend me a hand and we even socialise outside of horses together (I didn't know them before). 

It won't all be butterflies and rainbows but there are a lot of negative comments on this thread, just wanted to share my own positive experience to show that it can work 

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Thanks for this beth thats really nice and reassuring to hear! We currently have our own diary which we write down each others movements and already combine turn outs / bring ins so I now it works to a certain extent. I think we'd have a sit down and deifnitely make some clear rules but at the same time I wouldn't want to set enough to come across as demanding and taking advantage of my possition as at the end of the day she would be helping me as much her.


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## squiz22 (4 January 2013)

I spoke to the duty planning officer today at the Council who was extremely helpful with all my queries regarding the property. She actually had no idea about the stables query and will get back to me!

I'll let you know what she says! Thanks again for all the comments!


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## beth21 (4 January 2013)

squiz22 said:



			Thanks for this beth thats really nice and reassuring to hear! We currently have our own diary which we write down each others movements and already combine turn outs / bring ins so I now it works to a certain extent. I think we'd have a sit down and deifnitely make some clear rules but at the same time I wouldn't want to set enough to come across as demanding and taking advantage of my possition as at the end of the day she would be helping me as much her.
		
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Well it sounds like you're already on the right path to making things work. I always largely find that people are more likely to share negative experiences than positive in these situations which is a shame because this was the first yard I went to and have never had a problem and I don't believe the YO ever has either.

It's all about mutual respect between you, which as friends I'm sure you already have  So long as you stick to your ground rules, I'm sure you'll be fine. It sounds like you've already decided it's something you really want to do (can't blame you, I'm so jealous, wish I had a house with stables!) Good luck with everything, I hope it all works out!


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## squiz22 (4 January 2013)

beth21 said:



			Well it sounds like you're already on the right path to making things work. I always largely find that people are more likely to share negative experiences than positive in these situations which is a shame because this was the first yard I went to and have never had a problem and I don't believe the YO ever has either.

It's all about mutual respect between you, which as friends I'm sure you already have  So long as you stick to your ground rules, I'm sure you'll be fine. It sounds like you've already decided it's something you really want to do (can't blame you, I'm so jealous, wish I had a house with stables!) Good luck with everything, I hope it all works out!
		
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I think that I will need the help of another person and by having her there it will make my life much easier. I work full time and often have meetings in London etc so having someone there to bring in on an adhoc basis etc would be great! 

I think you are right though it is about mutual respect and making sure you have some rules in place. I hope it does work out because it would be amazing to have them at home. It would save a lot of money and time too which is always great. I'd like another youngster too and having them at home and not on livery makes it a lot more realistic! ]
Fingers crossed. We're going throug all the info this weekend and if we think it stacks up we'll make an offer!! Exciting times!


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## LynH (4 January 2013)

I'm in Surrey too and spoke to someone at Guildford Council who gave me the 'renting a room' advice. If you have any questions and are local to me pls feel free to PM me.

Lyn


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## Honey08 (4 January 2013)

We rented out a few of our stables when we first built the yard.  We have nine stables and 16 acres.  We thought we had picked really nice people  that we knew, but it all turned out to be a bit of a nightmare, and we basically ended up hating doing livery! So much more gets damaged than you think, you worry about ice on any slopes, states of the fields, parking, allsorts of things! Things that don't even enter your mind when its just you and yours.   When they left we never replaced them.  

We now have two horses, two of the stables are obviously stables, another is  a straw store, another is a haylage store, another is feedroom/ rug drying room, another is usually a clipping/trimming/somewhere to put them while mucking out, the other three are pony boxes, and full of firewood, ride on mowers, and other junk we can accumulate! I reckon if we had 30 stables we could fill them, you just keep expanding!

However, it sounds as though you and your friend have an established "relationship" regarding keeping your horses, so if you are really sure that you will both stick to rules and accept the new YO/livery relationship, you could be ok.

Either way, there is nothing like having your own place!


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## PucciNPoni (5 January 2013)

I'm a livery on such a place - and I really like it there - I like the family that own it and I love the facilities.  There are a 10 horses there currently, four of which are the y/o's.  The rest of us are liveries.  One particular person is an absolute nightmare and I think the whole experience has spoiled it for the yard owners and has told me that when that person takes her horses, those stables just won't be betting filled again.  Lots of advatage and pi$$ taking from one indivudual and it's a shame because the yard owners never set out to run a business per se - but it's ruining their enjoyment of their home.  

However, before she came to the yard, it was a fun place to be, lots of camradarie and we all felt part of their family.  It can be good and it can be pants - so just be careful to vet our your prospective liveries well


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## squiz22 (7 January 2013)

LynH said:



			I'm in Surrey too and spoke to someone at Guildford Council who gave me the 'renting a room' advice. If you have any questions and are local to me pls feel free to PM me.

Lyn
		
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Thanks Lynn I called Bracknell Forest Council and they were really helpful on everything but weren't entirely sure about the stables etc so have promised to get back to me today. I'm 99% sure everything is ok based on what Ive researched but I want to be sure and not end up with any horrid surprises. 
I will PM you though.. have a few questions! Thanks!!


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## Orangehorse (7 January 2013)

I am surprised at so many negative replies.  There would be advantages too, because there would be someone there if you are going to be late back/away for the weekend/have to go somewhere extra early.  All these things I have to pay someone to do since I only have my own horses at home.  Also someone horsey to share things with, go on rides with, share vet and farrier visits, etc.

I think if you go into it with your eyes wide open and have everything in writing from the start (what happens if the horse is neglected/they don't pay and disappear/horse destroys the fence/stable, kicks other horses).  Just say it is a standard livery contract.
If these people are already your friends and you have the same standards of horse care it should work out OK.


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## squiz22 (7 January 2013)

Im glad to see this thread has taken a more positive turn! I am going into it with my eyes open and I know who I would and wouldn't be happy to share my home with. I think I must make sure we are very open and have a clear set of rules. 

We making our mind up this week whether or nto we put an offer on the house.. I really hope we do but until then I'm trying not to get too excited!


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## LynH (7 January 2013)

We bought our place a year ago and I love having the horses at home and the process of putting stables and arena in is so exciting. 
I had a friend's horse here for a few months but as circumstances changed she moved on. It hasn't affected our friendship and I would consider having friends' horses here again but I'm a bit nervous of taking on strangers horses as I have health issues which prevent me helping anyone out as well as the planning permission issue of me helping anyone. 
It is exciting and I hope your offer is accepted. Good luck.


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## squiz22 (8 January 2013)

I think I shall keep it as friends only. Theres permission for 8 stables but only 3 built so for now i think it will be me and then the spare stable will be my friend. I don't think for now I'll bother with puting up the additional stables. I'd rather have fewer horses and keep better grazing.

I'm still waiting for Bracknell to get back to me but if not I may ahve a fair few more questions! 

Look at me .. talking like we already have it! I need to relax a little and go with the 'what will be will be' idea!!


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## AdorableAlice (8 January 2013)

paulineh said:



			What a shame people feel that having a friend or two as liveries is a bad thing.

In the past I have had normal liveries and it has not worked. I now have a friend and it works out much better. We help each other out. 

I have a clear set of rules which we both stick to.
		
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I think it depends on the true meaning of 'friend'.  I am lucky to have a dear friend keeping her horse with me.  She would and does absolutely everything she can to help me without being asked, and it is hardly a balanced set up with her having one horse and my 6 !  We work as a team on the yard especially in winter, as we both have very different home/work lives. For instance she has a family to get to school, I do not so I do all mornings.  She finishes work at 2pm I do not, so she does a mid afternoon yard and I feed and finish up at 7pm.

Nothing is set in stone and there have been plenty of times I have had a  crisis in the morning and not done as much as I should have done before running out of time - she receives a text message saying sorry !  We have been through a lot of good and bad times with the horses together and we trust each other totally.  There is never an 'i do more than you feeling'  It is a set up that works and long may it last.

On the other hand when a 'friend of a friend' was given livery a very different situation happened.  This persons idea of team was spelt with an 'i' in it.  She was only interested in her own horse and despite me doing it for her in the mornings she would happily leave the other horses without water or with slipped rugs etc.  It was of no advantage having the third person about the yard because she would ignore a horse in trouble if it was not hers, and grumble if asked to do something.  She decided very early on that poo picking was done by a magic fairy that arrived daily in her absence.

Get the right person and it is a lovely way of keeping horses, bit of company to ride with, share problems with and have a good laugh with.  Get the wrong person and it is a yard of misery and bad feeling.


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## Loulou2002 (8 January 2013)

Orangehorse said:



			I am surprised at so many negative replies.  There would be advantages too, because there would be someone there if you are going to be late back/away for the weekend/have to go somewhere extra early.  All these things I have to pay someone to do since I only have my own horses at home.  Also someone horsey to share things with, go on rides with, share vet and farrier visits, etc.

I think if you go into it with your eyes wide open and have everything in writing from the start (what happens if the horse is neglected/they don't pay and disappear/horse destroys the fence/stable, kicks other horses).  Just say it is a standard livery contract.
If these people are already your friends and you have the same standards of horse care it should work out OK.
		
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I agree.....we have two liveries and everything works fine. If i'm late back from a show or out for the day one of the liveries gets my others in and i do the same for her.  Obviously you can have liveries who can be a pain but you just have to be straight with them. yours are friends though so hopefully it will be different for you. We dont advertise and all of my liveries have come via word of mouth or are friends of mine which helps to have some background. I would say go for it and if you dont feel it works you can always ask them to find somewhere else.


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