# Footpaths and dogs - any legislation regarding leads?



## Patches (30 November 2007)

As I type, I am chuntering about a woman I can see walking two very large dogs across one of our fields. The footpath leads all the way across our farm, through various fields, so it's likely she's going to walk the lot. I just can't see any more from my kitchen window.

Firstly, she's not actually on the footpath, but more importantly she has both of them off leads. I'd guess they are running about 20/30 yards ahead of her and the way they are moving, makes me think they are looking for rabbits, or other scents, so they could be working dogs (although from up here they look more like Alsations by their colour/size).

It really annoys me that people let dogs off across our fields. Surely the dog and the walker should stick to footpaths? Can you put signs up stating dogs are to be kept on leads and must stick to footpaths? 

I know I sound miserable, but we don't cut for silage by the footpaths, never have. There is something in dog faeces that is known to cause stillbirth and spontaneous abortion (slipped calf) in dairy stock. If walkers don't stick to the footpaths, our attempts to protect our stock are futile. 

People seem to think our private fields are for the purpose of a dog toilet.


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## Madam_max (30 November 2007)

I am not sure, but a farmer has a sign near me saying any loose dogs will be shot  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  It's been there for years.


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## nijinsky (30 November 2007)

The Countryside Code 
30-May-06

Wherever you go, following these steps will help keep your pet safe, protect the environment, and show you are a responsible dog owner.  

Control your dog so that it does not scare or disturb farm animals or wildlife.

When using the new access rights over open country and common land, you must keep your dog on a short lead between 1 March and 31 July  and all year round near farm animals  and you may not be able to take your dog at all on some areas or at some times. Please follow any official signs.

You do not have to put your dog on a lead on public paths, as long as it is under close control. But as a general rule, keep your dog on a lead if you cannot rely on its obedience. By law, farmers are entitled to destroy a dog that injures or worries their animals.

If a farm animal chases you and your dog, it is safer to let your dog off the lead  dont risk getting hurt by trying to protect it. 
Take particular care that your dog doesnt scare sheep and lambs, or wander where it might disturb birds that nest on the ground and other wildlife  eggs and young will soon die without protection from their parents. 
Everyone knows how unpleasant dog mess is and it can cause infections, so always clean up after your dog and get rid of the mess responsibly. Also, make sure your dog is wormed regularly to protect it, other animals and people. 
You can also find out more about these rules from www.countrysideaccess.gov.uk or, if you have a particular query, email openaccess@countryside.gov.uk   or call 0845 100 3298.


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## Starbucks (30 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 People seem to think our private fields are for the purpose of a dog toilet. 

[/ QUOTE ] 

I don't think they are Patches!  They are just taking their dogs for a walk! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Maybe put a sign up saying please keep dogs on leads and stick to the path.  It might help a bit?


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## Blackhawk (30 November 2007)

The farms near me with public footpaths generally have signs on asking dogs to be kept on leads. If they don't, I usually walk it first with them on the lead then if I think there is no hazard to any livestock/land/my dogs I will let them off on the way back. They tend to run at my heels on the path though.


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## kick_On (30 November 2007)

ooo don't start one of my pet hate- i maded this into sign info taken from countryside code website


*Keep dogs under close control* 

*The countryside is a great place to exercise dogs, but its every owners duty to make sure their dog is not a danger or nuisance to farm animals, wildlife or other people.* 
	 *By law, you must control your dog so that it does not disturb or scare farm animals or wildlife. *  On most areas of open country and common land, known as 'access land' you must keep your dog on a short lead on most areas of open country and common land between 1 March and 31 July, and all year round near farm animals. 
	 *By law, you must control your dog so that it does not disturb or scare farm animals or wildlife. *  But as a general rule, keep your dog on a lead if you cannot rely on its obedience.  *By law, you must control your dog so that it does not disturb or scare farm animals or wildlife. * 
	If a farm animal chases you and your dog, it is safer to let your dog off the lead  dont risk getting hurt by trying to protect it. 
	Take particular care that your dog doesnt scare sheep and lambs or wander where it might disturb birds that nest on the ground and other wildlife  eggs and young will soon die without protection from their parents. 
	Everyone knows how unpleasant dog mess is and it can cause infections  so always clean up after your dog and get rid of the mess responsibly. Also make sure your dog is wormed regularly to protect it, other animals and people. 
	At certain times, dogs may not be allowed on some areas of access land or may need to be kept on a lead. Please follow any signs. You can also find out more by phoning the Open Access Contact Centre on 0845 100 3298

and i made then into signs aswell


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## Patches (30 November 2007)

Thanks for that nijinsky.

It would seem that private farm land is accessible to all then. It's not common land. I would have no objection to a dog off the lead, if it was walking on the public footpath, but more often than not they are running around OUR fields. Not public fields.


Gah, I'm getting miserable. It just really annoys me that people think private farm land is for public pleasure. They'd be up in arms if I took my dog for a poop on their garden!


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## Patches (30 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 [ QUOTE ]
 People seem to think our private fields are for the purpose of a dog toilet. 

[/ QUOTE ] 

I don't think they are Patches!  They are just taking their dogs for a walk! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Maybe put a sign up saying please keep dogs on leads and stick to the path.  It might help a bit? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know they're just taking them for a walk really. They do choose farm land so they can let their dogs run free and because to them it negates the need to poop scoop.

I couldn't take my dog for a walk in someone's garden, so why should it be assumed that they can walk their dogs over our private fields? That's the bit I don't understand.

Footpath is one thing, but dogs running the entire length of breadth of fields is quite something else.


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## Patches (30 November 2007)

Good idea, but do you think anyone actually takes the time to read it?


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## Starbucks (30 November 2007)

Is the actual foot path clearly marked?

I really don't think you can blame people for letting their dogs off the lead if you haven't stated otherwise. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  If you had a sign, and they continued to do so then fair enough, but how are they supposed to know!!

My parents have a footpath that run along their drive and through their yard, yea it is a pain some times but I think something we have to accept.


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## Cop-Pop (30 November 2007)

A farm near us applied for a change of footpath and had then redirected it around the edge of the field then fenced it in to be seperate from the rest of the field.


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## kick_On (30 November 2007)

er IMO my understanding that 'Open Land' covers moorland, heaths, coastline etc.... NOT 'working farm land' with access via public footpaths (i wait to be corrected)
Personnelly i would tell them to used the blooming public footpath with dog under control and pick their cr8p up
But if you want to check your rights log on to your local authority website and check

and  YES cos main offender who called my horses dangerous cos he was letting his dog go radbbiting in my field, hasn't been seen since and if i do see him, i will let him know that notice is for HIM


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## Starbucks (30 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 Footpath is one thing, but dogs running the entire length of breadth of fields is quite something else. 

[/ QUOTE ] 

Because they probably don't see what harm they are doing!!  I think most dog owners (me anyway) know to keep them away from animals etc. but I didn't know about the problems dog poo did!!  I'll keep it in mind in future though.


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## Kermie (30 November 2007)

Why not try a sign that says something about picking up their dogs poo rather than keeping them on a lead.  If the dogs aren't out of control, then I would have thought a field was a good place for them to have a run, but I understand your frustration about dog mess being left behind.


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## Patches (30 November 2007)

There is a "dogs on lead" sign on some of the stile entrances from the roadside. People ignore them, but clearly we don't have the authority to make people keep their dogs on leads anyway, as the literature pasted here proves. 

We have 250 acres. I can't possibly see people walking over all the fields from the house, so even if I had signs, people would likely still ignore them because it's plainly obvious they are unlikely to be "caught at it".

Absolutely no objection to dogs being walked on the footpaths, or even just close to them. The field I'm looking at, from the kitchen, is grown for silage. We only graze it the back end of the year after all silage is taken. It's 25 acres in size. Probably about three football pitches wide. It's a long field that runs parallel to the motorway. The footpath is all of say 8 ft wide tops. Is it really unreasonable to be a little griped by walkers who allow their dogs to sweep side to side, the entire width of the field or for the walkers themselves to walk straight down the middle of it? They can see, in spring and summer, that the grass is being allowed to grow for silage and still wander through it.


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## Starbucks (30 November 2007)

Umm, I do see your point.  Hope you get something sorted!


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## Patches (30 November 2007)

I'm sure they all think it's doing no harm, and for the most part, it isn't a terrible thing. 

People take liberties though, and their assumption that they can do whatever they like, and go anywhere "because it's only farmland" really grates on me. There would soon be uproar if us horse riders strayed off bridleways/headlands and wanted to walk across areas we were not authorised to walk on. 

Like I said, I'm possibly miserable, but I wouldn't take liberties.


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## TGM (30 November 2007)

Some people do it out of ignorance, whereas some don't care less.  Why not put up a sign to say "Please keep dogs under close control, stick to the footpath and clear up dog mess.  This field is growing a silage crop and infection from dog faeces could make our cattle seriously ill."  That will stop the ones who are do it out of ignorance, but there will still be some who are bloody-minded about it.


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## pennyh (30 November 2007)

i too have a footpath crossing my land , i was told by the local council that i am within my right to erect a sign stating that dogs must be kept on a lead whilst on my land ( this as a result of a serous injury my horse suffered which the vet believed to be a dog attack 
	
	
		
		
	


	




)


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## Worried1 (30 November 2007)

We are in an impossible situation as across the middle of one of our fields is a footpath. With the same footpath then running alongside the outer side of one of the boundry fences.
We can only turn our mule out in the smaller field because he will attack and attempt to kill any dogs not on leads.

We simply can't run the risk of him injuring or killing a dog because you can imagine the backlash in today's sue happy culture.

Dog walkers have actually worn a path right round the outside  edge of one of the fields where they think they have the right to roam.

We have deer stock fencing on one side and this has previously been cut by people wanting a shortcut across the fields. We have had no option but to use barbed wire oon the top strands at 4 and 5 foot in attempt to stop people climbing through the fence.

It is an area where there are several shoots nearby and we often have trouble with armed poachers too.

People have actually said we are being unreasonable by reducing their walking space and that the horses ruin their walks as they are too scared to go right round the edge.


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## Fantasy_World (30 November 2007)

Good idea about the sign and implying the reasons TGM and it may be worth a try Patches?
For the record though I am a dog owner and are one of the few that do keep dogs on leads when crossing farm fields, whether they are life stocked or not. I do think about the crops and also any livestock in adjacent fields as I wouldn't want my two getting in and worrying them.
I do like dogs don't get me wrong but just cannot abide dog faeces they are just awful 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Caz


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## Fantasy_World (30 November 2007)

"People have actually said we are being unreasonable by reducing their walking space and that the horses ruin their walks as they are too scared to go right round the edge."
How utterly pedantic of them -not you- to say that. Crikey as both a horse and dog owner I would never ever think I have more rights over any livestock or farm land as a dog walker!


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## kick_On (30 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]


We simply can't run the risk of him injuring or killing a dog because you can imagine the backlash in today's sue happy culture.


[/ QUOTE ]

the law is very clear about this IT IS UP TO DOG OWNER TO KEEP CLOSE CONTROL OF THEY DOGS - so law in on side of landowner NOT dog owners it is their responisablity to control their animal NOT TO worry stock


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## Maesfen (30 November 2007)

If you haven't got public footpaths over your land then Joe Public does not have a right to be there.

Get onto your council's Right of Way Officer, they're always very helpful (well Cheshire's are!) and ask for a visit asap, also ask what signs you need and can they supply them?  You could also put signs up that 'dogs must be kept on leads at all times otherwise you will be asked to leave the premises'  or somesuch.  You can always play the insurance angle although that should be covered by your landowner policy from NFU anyway.  You could also try your NFU office for advice, it's what you pay them for.

As to someone saying it's just people taking dogs for a walk, not to go to the toilet, that's a joke.  What is the first thing a dog does after the first run round?  Yes, it empties itself and usually does a few more times on the walk too if it's long enough!  At the least, the owner could pooper scoop even although it's in the country. it's still someone else's land, similar to a pavement in that respect


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## Foxford (30 November 2007)

There are large arable fields just behind our house. There is a footpath that runs through them and we walk our dog on them. The land owner is completely OBSESSED with people keeping on the footpath. She sometime follows you either in a 4x4 or with 2 GSDs to make sure! She keeps watch from her house believe it or not.

They drive a landrover across the footpath so that it becomes clearly marked - perhaps you could try that? That way people can't say they didn't realise it was a footpath! We always clear up after our dog and he stays close to us. I find it disgusting that people let their dogs poo on crops. Not to mention my dog likes to roll in it  
	
	
		
		
	


	




. I think it's worth telling people if you see them doing it, as long as you are not like my local crazy farmer. They probably have no idea that they are peeing you off.


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## Persephone (30 November 2007)

A footpath runs along the edge of one of our fields. Our yard owner is so sick of people letting their dogs mess in his field that he is in the process of fencing and hedging the footpath off from the rest of the field. I am as annoyed as he is tbh. When I school my horse in the field I pick up anything we leave behind as his son practices on his scramble bike in there too. His son is fed up of washing dog poo off his bike and I am cheesed off with finding it in my horse's feet. 

It's filthy, dangerous and downright antisocial. No I am not a dog hater, just not a dog crap lover. It's not an unreasonable request that people pick up after their dogs surely?


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## WishfulThinker (30 November 2007)

Surely, if you are growing the grass for Silage it is a crop, and therefore bey walking through it they are damaging it - so braking the code/law/whatever? 

When I was younger we used to ride through one of the field when it had crops in it - yes I know now its bad - but we used to stick to the big path where the massive tractor went so we were never actually in the crops - you couldnt go round the edge as for some reason they never had areas left, and any small bits were too rabbit holey. 
When I was younger though we were allowed to go in the crop fields and the animals as long as we behaved - the farmers told us plus mates dad owned most of the land. 

I think that the right to access is good, but its also bad, and I still think it seems a brilliant way to spread infection etc!!! 

If it was me, I would jsut put a metal handle on the gate or style and make it electric 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 but I am an evil coo!


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## Patches (30 November 2007)

You see, the right to roam (which I think is what you're referring to when you say right to access), has been the sword in alot of farmers' sides.

People automatically assume it refers to any open land. If we challenge walkers that are in fields that don't even have a footpath, it is often the response. "We have a right to roam you miserable tossers!"

What they fail to realise is that farm land is private property. It is not common land. Right to roam has no bearing on private farm land. The ONLY part of our land available to the public are the public footpaths that run through the private land.

Nothing more. To be walking on anything else is actually trespass.


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## Pedantic (30 November 2007)

I dont see why people think they can wander all over private land, we rent the fields from the council for our grazing which has no public footpaths across it, so as far as I am concerned it's PRIVATE, WE PAY, if it's a case of Oh it's council so we can walk over it and clamber over fences then by the same token I can walk my dogs and horse through someones council house and let them shite in the back garden then make a hole through their back fence to get out the other side for a shorcut, a lot of people are total arseholes, one t**t actually "sends" his spaniel into our fields with horses in, I'm sure the pillock will moan like hell if his dog gets hurt.


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## SteveD (30 November 2007)

we have both sides of the footpath that runs through our land lined with barbed wire topped stock fencing to keep people off our land...I would have no issues at all in shooting a dog that strayed onto our land when stock is in there.  If owners dont want to recover bits of their dogs, keep them under control.  I have escorted people who I have found trespassing on my land off and reported them to both the local footpath officer and police.
I have also stopped cyclists of all ages on the footpath and made them go back the way they came.

One neighbour has put big/high stiles at either end of the footpath across his land and placed stockfencing under them to make sure dogs cant just walk under them, whilst owners climb the stile.  This means people with big dogs would have to lift them over the stile, which for most is too much hassle and they soon find somewhere else to walk their dogs.  This is not illegal as you are not blocking their (human) way through.

Years ago one neighbour kept letting their dog crap everywhere, so I went round and collected it in a bag and deposited it on her doorstep ready for her to come out and walk in it.....just so she could feel what it was like.  She was apparently furious...he he he!

BTW, my horse NEVER goes to the toilet when we are out on a hack, he saves it for his field...dont know if anyone else has a horse like this or isi it just me....

Sorry, but some dog walkers are a pain in the backside in the countryside, and some are perfectly OK...but like all things its the minority that spoil things for the majority


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## Christmas_Kate (30 November 2007)

This is something which has been in the forefront of my mind recently. 

We have a farmer locally, who is quite quiet and reserved. Wouldnt say Boo to a goose. He was rather upset because "someone" had been walking their dog over his freshly drilled fields. He had a contrator in to drill this field and it had been trashed with human and dog foot prints, and the tyre marks of a child's quad. He wanted to say something as he knew who'd been doing it but the person guilty of this is a bit of a bully so the farmer was concerned about confronting him. 
Word was passed around the village that he wasnt pleased, and person concerned heard about it. 
Next thing there's a group of 6 or 7 children setting up a cricket pitch in the middle of said drilled field and running around! The parents even helped them do it!!!! It's beyond belief that people can be so blimmin arrogant and downright thick. Some of these kids are sent to play there by their parents, parents who then turn up at church and act all lovely nicey to said farmer (who i expect is silebntly seething).

Round here we're quite welcome to go in fields that have no legal footpath status but we stick to the headlands or edge of the field and generally don't let dogs cr*p everywhere. Give respect and you get it back. I said not so long ago about the guy I found freewheeling on his bike down the field ponio was in... if he'd done it a day earlier a spirited welshy would have been in there and most likely tried to take his head off. This guy had come through a crop field , broken through a hedge, and apparently was "lost" 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I would agree with sticking signs up, you have the law on your side concerning dogs worrying stock etc, so you can put that in your signs. But yes, generally fields seem to be a playground for the public.


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## Cuffey (1 December 2007)

I have had far more dogs since dog owners have been obliged to pick up poo around town
Owners just drive down, dogs out of car and walk the fields here
Farmer has silage field surrounded by my grazing--it has a track around it used by dog walkers but the dogs are poohing in the silage grass in summer--the thought of what some poor cow gets in its breakfast YUK plus as above the risk of disease
Other dog walkers just run their dogs loose amongst my sheep--one day big horse will get one.  Used to have Welsh X show pony--she was mustard with loose dogs, totally ignored anything on a lead, I used to grin from ear to ear watching her scare GSDs and whippets, you never saw owners catch their dogs so quickly!!
You could ask Council Dog Warden for advice--re poo
Scottish legislation and Poster
http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/default.asp?nPageID=409


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## Mags Mum (1 December 2007)

I really feel for you all and for those that have dogs where they shouldnt be.

However, I have a stepfather that argues with me till he is blue in the face, the law only states that dogs must be under control and does not state they should be on a lead.

My understanding of the law is that a dog is not under control if it is not on a lead, his is he has two border collies that 90% of the time do as he says so they are under control.

I really think it is about time everyone pertioned for dogs on a lead is 100% in control not the loophole that is there at the moment.  The only dog under proper control is on a lead end of, no argument in my eyes,.

Hope you can get it sorted out, damage to land and property is not funny.


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## Thistle (1 December 2007)

Signs stating 'Please keep dogs on a lead, Rat poison in use' are quite effective, no one would like little doggie to be poisoned, and no one would know if you had, or hadn't put it down.


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## Pedantic (1 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
This is something which has been in the forefront of my mind recently. 

We have a farmer locally, who is quite quiet and reserved. Wouldnt say Boo to a goose. He was rather upset because "someone" had been walking their dog over his freshly drilled fields. He had a contrator in to drill this field and it had been trashed with human and dog foot prints, and the tyre marks of a child's quad. He wanted to say something as he knew who'd been doing it but the person guilty of this is a bit of a bully so the farmer was concerned about confronting him. 
Word was passed around the village that he wasnt pleased, and person concerned heard about it. 
Next thing there's a group of 6 or 7 children setting up a cricket pitch in the middle of said drilled field and running around! The parents even helped them do it!!!! It's beyond belief that people can be so blimmin arrogant and downright thick. Some of these kids are sent to play there by their parents, parents who then turn up at church and act all lovely nicey to said farmer (who i expect is silebntly seething).

That is absolutaly disgusting, I am annoyed just reading it


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## PeterNatt (1 December 2007)

Dog owners must keep their dogs under control when on a public highway (Public Footpath, Bridleways and Byeways).

This does not mean that they have to keep them on a lead.  However if their dogs worry any livestock then they can be prosecuted.

If you are worried about the livestock in your field then your alternative would be to contact the access department of your local county council and ask them to divert the route of the puiblic footpath so that it passes around the edge of your fields.   If permission is granted then fence the new route off with post and rail fencing with equi-fencing on it and then the dogs can not disturb your livestock.  You will also have to provide new approved gates to replace any stiles because of the new disabled access to the countryside laws,


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