# How to feed a horse with liver problems?



## Kaida (31 December 2013)

I know there have been several posts about this in the past, and I've read them. I have also been following advice from my vet, which I shall continue to follow. However, this is an area about which I know very little so I thought it would be worth asking the question as I've been getting some very conflicting advice and am now rather confused!

Background: one of my horses slowly dropped weight in Autumn. It was very gradual so I didn't notice as soon as I should have, and when I did I attributed it to the decline in grass quality. I changed his feed, as I had a nutritionist due out (from Allen and Page if it makes any difference) and followed their advice for weight gain. He was put into calm and condition, with Alpha A Oil and a handful of cool mix.

I quickly found that this chaff was not great for my horses peace of mind so changed him onto Apple hifi mixed with healthy hooves. I also happened to be speaking with someone with very good knowledge of the breed who reminded me that hat straights were great for weight gain, so added micronised linseed to his diet (he's Iberian if it helps...). He was also getting supplements of Gastri-Aid and some Omega oils.

After a month this hadn't had a noticeable effect. My lad was still very bright and happy in his work, in fact even quite fizzy to sit on, but I just couldn't get the weight on, so I called the vet. I asked him to check for liver damage as this is what had been mentioned to me by several people, and on his initial check he agreed that the horse seemed very happy in all aspects and no signs of illness. He did take a blood test however and confirmed that the liver enzymes showed there was a problem.

He told me to put the horse on haylage instead of hay, sent me a supplement called Hepalyte, advised to add glucose to the feed and said to cut down amounts of protein to reduce the work the liver was required to do. He came out every third day for a total of three times to inject vitamins and minerals to help the horse. So, following his advise and a lot of reading up, I changed the diet to the following:

6 small feeds a day, each consisting of:
Speedy beet (about a level double handful when soaked, but I have small hands!)
Micronised linseed (one supplement size scoop)
10ml hepalyte (to make the required 60ml per day)
Very small scoop of glucose powder (about half a teaspoon)
Quarter supplement scoop of yeast

He has also been moved onto the farmers haylage which is pretty good, although not top quality. I have milk thistle on order to add and am just waiting for it to arrive.

He's been on this for the last 3 weeks and is now less fizzy to ride, although still happy in his work, but still no weight gain. The vet is taking more bloods on Thursday and knows what I'm feeding and has not offered any advice.

Does this sound about right? Some places I've seen it said you shouldn't feed haylage, others have said you should feed the top quality haylage and buy the horsehage stuff...lots and lots of additional advice around about extra things to add to his feeds too. Does what I am feeding sound sensible, and are there any changes you would recommend?

He has not had a biopsy yet; the vet will wait for results from the second bloods first.


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## Theocat (31 December 2013)

That doesn't sound like very much feed to me, and if he hasn't put on any weight in three weeks I'd say he needs more grub. Is he getting adlib haylage? What's your grass like?


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## Kaida (31 December 2013)

Well I was told to ensure that the feeds were small so the liver could cope with them; he does get this 6 times a day though and each feed is about 2 inches deep. Grass is awful although the next set of fields will be ready next week so there will be grazing again then. Yes ad lib haylage


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## Kaida (31 December 2013)

I should add that before we knew about the liver issues, he was getting a lot of grub to build him up and that didn't make a difference either - I forgot to say he was also getting Bailey's Outshine in the original feed (original feed was three times a day and about 6 inches deep by the time the calm and condition had soaked) and this didn't add any weight to him at all


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## Theocat (1 January 2014)

Kaida said:



			I 

6 small feeds a day, each consisting of:
Speedy beet (about a level double handful when soaked, but I have small hands!) *Speedibeet is mostly fibre and water - I don't think this will have enough calories in it to put weight on*
Micronised linseed (one supplement size scoop) *It's worth weighing how much you're feeding in total - I'm feeding 200g a day at the moment just to maintain condition*
10ml hepalyte (to make the required 60ml per day) *I don't know what this is but at that quantity it won'd be adding calories*
Very small scoop of glucose powder (about half a teaspoon) *That's such a tiny amount it won't be adding much either*
Quarter supplement scoop of yeast *This won't really be adding anything*

Click to expand...

In your shoes I would ask the vet again but this doesn't sound to me like enough feed for a horse that needs to gain weight - but you'll need vet advice so that you feed the right thing with the liver problems.  Good luck, I hope you manage to find something that works for you.


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## ILuvCowparsely (1 January 2014)

You want to contact  member boxoffrogs  http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/member.php?47879-Box_Of_Frogs

My mare had liver disease she was helpfull

contact  DODSON AND HORRELL  They have the world leader in this disease who can advice and give tailored diet

what is good is dried nettles - licorice and more.  I cannot type everything i did as i have a broken arm and it would take too long to type , but a lot of my  advice is here under L for liver  http://horse-care-and-advice.weebly.com/l.html


My mare was on loads small feeds tailored amounts from D&H 
.Vet prescribed  >  LEGAPHYTON http://www.equistro.co.uk/ProductPage/LEGAPHYTON.html


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## Kaida (1 January 2014)

Thank you, I will contact them tomorrow - thank you so much!


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## sueonmull (1 January 2014)

When you see the vet ask him about liver fluke which can also be a cause for weight loss/difficulty gaining weight. Worth considering as it's cheap and easy to dose for - nothing licenced for horses but vet can give you cattle or sheep wormer. If you look on the H&H forum for 'liver fluke' you should find lots of information.


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## Jobi-Wan Kenobi (1 January 2014)

Milk thistle seed is a great addition to support the liver. I get mine from Feedmark.


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## Kaida (1 January 2014)

Yes, I've ordered a 5kg bag of milk thistle from D&H and am just waiting for it to arrive (been a week but it has been a busy time of year!) as that was one thing that stood out as a common factor in all the threads, posts, etc I could find about it. Thank you!


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## Maisy (2 January 2014)

My horse has been suffering with elevated liver enzymes for a year, and I have spoken to various nutritionists about what is best to feed, as well as what he will actually eat!  He is now most happy on fast fibre and a small scoop of sugar beet....The fast fibre is great because you can basically feed as much of it as you want....Max is now on this years hay, which he seems to prefer to last years, so is not having quite so much FF, but he has had a trug full of it over night at times!!

I'm not sure if micronised linseed is ideal because of the high oil content?  I was told to cut down to less that 10% protein (iirc...could have been even less)....the micronised linseed is about 35%??


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## Kaida (2 January 2014)

Thank you! He only has a small supplement scoop of the micronised linseed and has no other oils in his feed for the reasons you have mentioned, and sadly he refuses point blank to eat fast fibre no matter how many tasty treats I add, so I am now looking at feeding micronised barley to get the carbohydrate in...hopefully! How do you find yours is doing with the weight? My lad has become such a fussy feeder since this started and used to eat everything in sight!


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## Maisy (2 January 2014)

Mine is doing better now he is enjoying the hay....he has always eaten his hard feed, but sometimes doesn't eat enough hay to keep the weight on without upping the fast fibre....

Its a bit of a minefield, especially since it seemed difficult to get independent advice regarding what to feed.  

The nutritionist from Allen & Page did recommend oat feed pellets, as a source of energy which are apparently low in protein....I tried them, but my horse wasn't so keen.  I found them hard to get hold of so I contacted Rowen Barbary feeds who were very helpful....they suggested a bran mash thing they make, but I haven't tried it.....

Its very frustrating, because the vets don't actually know what is causing the problem with my boy...he has had 2 biopsies, numerous blood tests, steroids, antibiotics x 3 different kinds as well as various liver support medications, some of which are prohibitively expensive now his insurance has run out :-(


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## Kaida (2 January 2014)

Oh no that's awful for you! I have to be careful as too much sugar leaves me sat on a firework hence keeping away from oats! The vet took more bloods today and we chatted a lot about feed, I'm also calling Dodson and Horrell tomorrow now I've spoken with the vet...just got to wait for the results of the bloods and hope it's getting better for mine. Really hope your horse improves!


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## ILuvCowparsely (2 January 2014)

Maisy said:



			Mine is doing better now he is enjoying the hay....he has always eaten his hard feed, but sometimes doesn't eat enough hay to keep the weight on without upping the fast fibre....

Its a bit of a minefield, especially since it seemed difficult to get independent advice regarding what to feed.  

The nutritionist from Allen & Page did recommend oat feed pellets, as a source of energy which are apparently low in protein....I tried them, but my horse wasn't so keen.  I found them hard to get hold of so I contacted Rowen Barbary feeds who were very helpful....they suggested a bran mash thing they make, but I haven't tried it.....

Its very frustrating, because the vets don't actually know what is causing the problem with my boy...he has had 2 biopsies, numerous blood tests, steroids, antibiotics x 3 different kinds as well as various liver support medications, some of which are prohibitively expensive now his insurance has run out :-(
		
Click to expand...

When my mare had liver disease vets said LEGAPHYTON its more purified.
It takes 30 kg of milk thistle fruit to make 500 g of purified silymarin extract (80% of which is Silybin). With only a 10% bioavailability, EQUISTRO® and its BIO-EFFICIENT philosophy has found the solution, EQUISTRO® LEGAPHYTON incorporates a unique and patented complex called SILIPHOS®.


http://www.equistro.co.uk/ProductPage/LEGAPHYTON.html


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## Kaida (2 January 2014)

Oh that looks good, will take a look. The vet said the reason they use hepalyte is beca use it doesn't have much iron in, which I need to avoid, and apparently a lot of the supplements for lover problems do have high levels of iron in them?


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## Maisy (2 January 2014)

My boy had legaphyton for about 6 months, as well as a more expensive hepatosyl (something in the region of £700 for 6 weeks supply!)....the legaphyton didn't seem to have any benefit at all for him....having said that, its all a bit of a stab in the dark when we don't know the cause of the problem.

I have now gone back to milk thistle.....


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## Kaida (2 January 2014)

Ouch!!!  That's a heck of a hit!  Thankfully the Hepalyte is £60 per bottle which lasts for about 3 weeks...but I was talking with the vet about Milk Thistle as I already have it on order and he said the supplement already has a lot of Milk Thistle in it so I will have to be careful not to chuck in too much!  I have read the horse care and advice page, thank you for the link Leviathan - it's a great page


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