# Anyone keep sheep properly?



## Nudibranch (4 October 2014)

As in lambing them and so on rather than just as lawnmowers? For many years I have planned to start a small flock of pedigree welsh mountains (probably black welsh mountain as there doesn't seem to be anything much happening with the whites). Thinking of giving it a go, so just interested in other peoples' experiences. We plan to eat the ram lambs and keep/sell on the ewes.


----------



## AengusOg (4 October 2014)

I work as a shepherd; my employer and I work 2000 ewes between us, as well as buying in feeding sheep. I worked with sheep many years ago, but just went back into it three years ago, through necessity (no money in horses). It's hard work.

You sound as if you will be operating more on a smallholder scale, but you will still need to be on the ball when it comes to routine flock maintenance and vacs., etc..

Eating them will be the fun part. Everything else is dirty, smelly, graft.


----------



## Alec Swan (4 October 2014)

O_P,  if you live in the heart of sheep country,  as you seem to do,  then I'd strongly advise against keeping the obscure breeds.  I've kept BWM sheep,  and they weren't really worth the trouble.  If you PM me I'll give you the contact details of a family who keep an excellent flock of Lairg type North Country Cheviots.  The Scotch Blackface is another useful sheep,  and my word but they eat well!!  Keep a recognised and local breed to you,  and you will always find a ready market for your sheep,  and only having a few,  they will stand head and shoulders above those which are kept in their hundreds,  and by your individual attention.

Tup Lambs?  Again,  I'd advise caution;  'Tup' would imply entire,  and they can be the very devil too get fit,  and whilst young enough.  Beyond the age of 6 months,  they will become tainted and beyond a year,  all but inedible.  Better to castrate and kill them at 12 months,  in my view.

I enjoy my sheep,  and wouldn't be without them.

Alec.


----------



## Dry Rot (4 October 2014)

There's nothing much to keeping sheep -- apart from tupping, fencing, lambing, speaning, tagging, dagging, shearing, dogging, sorting, foot trimming, vaccinating, administering minerals, burying, and a lot other things I am glad to have forgotten about. Oh, and don't forget the dog!

If (God forbid!) I was to lose my sanity and keep sheep again, it would be an easy-care breed that is fairly docile and lambs itself without assistance.

I had Lleyns which I have no serious objections to as they were originally, I think, a small holders" sheep and reasonably easy to do. They are now popular and popularity is the curse of all domestic pedigree livestock, but if you can buy ewe lambs off a good commercial flock you should be all right. Don't worry about registration or any of the fancy nonsense like recording. But there will be other breeds. 

If you are near a hill area where they draw their ewes off at a certain age, broken mouthed ewes can be a good deal. You take a crop of lambs off them and sell them at the next ewe sales. There should be very little depreciation as a broken mouthed ewe is a broken mouthed ewe. They will be easy to lamb and do well on better grazing. They will only be for sale because they can no longer manage to eat heather. But you will need good fences.

But your priority should be to get a good psychiatrist who will talk you out of keeping sheep altogether if he knows his job. The best sheep I ever saw was the last of mine walking on to the lorry!


----------



## Alec Swan (4 October 2014)

Don't you listen to him Nudibranch,  he may be correct in everything that he says,  but that doesn't make him right!  Anyway,  D_R keeps equines,  and to claim that those who keep sheep are in need of psychiatric care,  is a bit rich! 

Alec.


----------



## jrp204 (4 October 2014)

We keep pedigree Texels and Suffolks and a small commercial flock. Priority is good fencing! Unless you plan to keep any ram lambs to sell as breeding stock put a ring on them when they are born, they will be a pain and as Alec says will take ages to finish and there's nothing worse than 'rammy meat'.
If you think you want to go down the pedigree line, buy the best you can and don't compromise on traits that will follow through easily, humpy backs and bad mouths are prime examples.


----------



## PorkChop (4 October 2014)

I used to be a shepherdess  I used to have 350 ewes, I had mainly mules because they are such good mums and we crossed them with suffolks.

My cousin now has a small herd of Jacobs and she has had nothing but trouble.  I think if I was to run a small herd I wouldn't choose a rarer breed, and I wouldn't want less than fifteen ewes.

They were hard work but I do miss them


----------



## honetpot (4 October 2014)

Try this web site and forum, lots of hands on advice for the smallholder, no question too daft.

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?board=5.0

I went for Zwartble x because they a small, friendly and I have found relatively easy to round up on foot, from a family home were they did sheep dog training so they are used to dogs. So far they have not died but one is a tup so its the freezer or the snip for him.


----------



## jrp204 (4 October 2014)

If you want something small with a good carcass, Beltex fit the bill. They are like mini meat machines, aren't likely to leap over fences and are quite quiet.


----------



## Nudibranch (4 October 2014)

Interesting!
Cheviots and blackfaces are our local sheep, and we share our grazing with Leicesters and Leicester/Texel mules. But being from the Welsh hills, I do like the Welsh mountains very much. The meat is supposed to be good and they'd be very much a hobby flock rather than a commercial enterprise. But interesting that several people have warned against the rare breeds. I should have mentioned the ram/tup lambs would definitely be banded - I think our neighbour might be a bit miffed that his lambs were turning out rather smaller than he'd anticipated


----------



## Amicus (7 October 2014)

Have you decided on what scale you want to keep them, 5/15/50/100 assume if hobby flock probably not much larger than that? The problem with rare breeds is your market is much more niche (friend has recently had more and more of an issue selling her Jacobs as their to specialist to do well at most markets. Other things to think of if you go for horned welshies some shearers won't touch em which is a pain. Wiley natives are also shits for jumping out often over fences that horses wouldn't fancy jumping. On the plus though they do generally seem tougher and will most of the time sort themselves out lambing (though as with all sheep if you don't watch there are always issues). On the whole though I think sheep are fantastic, however irritating but worth thinking on your market for lambs when deciding your breed.


----------



## Dry Rot (7 October 2014)

Don't forget the paperwork. I'm a bit out of date but I think you will need both a holding number and flock number at the very least, then there are the new electronic tags for each sheep (so you'll probably need a scanner) and all the record keeping that goes with it. Of course, your fences will rip the tags out and the numbers will be lost along with the tags so that will lead to endless fun when you want to sell them or take them to the abattoir. I wonder if you need a licence to transport livestock? I think I took a test for that but the writing has rubbed off my little plastic card so I'm not sure.   Yes, sheep really are fantastic&#8230;.


----------



## jrp204 (7 October 2014)

You don't need a scanner, you also don't need a licence to transport your own sheep, just your movement licence which you fill in keep 1 copy, send 1 to AHLVA and 1 to the destination. It's easy to get a holding number and flock code. You put your EID in 1 ear and you ID tag in the other, we have the ID on both tags so if they rip one out you know what number it is.


----------



## TBB (8 October 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			Don't you listen to him Nudibranch,  he may be correct in everything that he says,  but that doesn't make him right!  Anyway,  D_R keeps equines,  and to claim that those who keep sheep are in need of psychiatric care,  is a bit rich! 

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

what does it say about you Alec, if you keep both? Lost cause? Fit to be locked up?
Don't waste money on a shrink, no point!!!


----------



## Nudibranch (9 October 2014)

The paperwork side isn't off-putting and we can transport them in the back of the pickup - no licence needed! I do have a "real" farmer on hand for plenty of advice as well. Thinking of a starter flock of about 10. Just can't decide on the breed; white welshies are looking most likely though. Alas, my plans are on hold for a few months due to the imminent pts of my old mare and subsequent need to find a new pal for the youngster. Maybe spring lambs then....


----------



## jrp204 (10 October 2014)

"The paperwork side isn't off-putting and we can transport them in the back of the pickup - no licence needed!"

You will need a movement licence if you are moving them to anywhere but your own holding number regardless of how you transport them.


----------



## Dry Rot (10 October 2014)

&#8230;and don't forget the characters from DEFRA with the clip boards wanting to count them when it's least convenient! 

While you are at it, go pedigreed, MLC Recorded (do they still do that?), Maedi Visna Accredited, Red Tractor, Farm Assured&#8230; Then get a sheep sitter in for a couple of days a year to give you 48 hours playing time with the horses. Me? Cynical? I LOVE sheep (but only with mint sauce or in a pie). Just look what they've done to Alec!


----------



## MotherOfChickens (10 October 2014)

I work with sheep and they are probably the one animal I don't want to keep myself  I do love blue faced Leicesters but given my predilection for rare breeds I would probably go Castlemilk Moorits or Bororays. I have worked with Soays and although I admire them, they need more than I could give them (and much higher fences lol). 


sorry to hear about your mare Nudibranch.


----------



## Twizzel (10 October 2014)

Nudibranch said:



			The paperwork side isn't off-putting and we can transport them in the back of the pickup - no licence needed! I do have a "real" farmer on hand for plenty of advice as well. Thinking of a starter flock of about 10. Just can't decide on the breed; white welshies are looking most likely though. Alas, my plans are on hold for a few months due to the imminent pts of my old mare and subsequent need to find a new pal for the youngster. Maybe spring lambs then....
		
Click to expand...

Note that if transporting to the abattoir your transport should have loading gates and ramp so a pickup won't be suitable. And also note how heavy a finished lamb or breeding ewe is, not sure I'd want to be lifting them into a pickup!


----------



## jrp204 (10 October 2014)

Twizzel said:



			Note that if transporting to the abattoir your transport should have loading gates and ramp so a pickup won't be suitable. And also note how heavy a finished lamb or breeding ewe is, not sure I'd want to be lifting them into a pickup!
		
Click to expand...

We often use the pickup for transporting to the abattoir/market, for anything heavy we put a pallet on the hitch, drop the tailgate down onto it and they run up, sorted.
All of our sheep are MV accredited, you are unable to sell at many breed sales without it (quite rightly) it doesn't really make any more work if the whole flock is MV and if you start the accreditation process when you have just a few sheep it isn't too expensive to get started


----------



## Dry Rot (10 October 2014)

jrp204 said:



			We often use the pickup for transporting to the abattoir/market, for anything heavy we put a pallet on the hitch, drop the tailgate down onto it and they run up, sorted.
All of our sheep are MV accredited, you are unable to sell at many breed sales without it (quite rightly) it doesn't really make any more work if the whole flock is MV and if you start the accreditation process when you have just a few sheep it isn't too expensive to get started
		
Click to expand...

So if the OP's neighbour has non accredited sheep, she will need double fencing too! Mustn't allow nose to nose contact!


----------



## jrp204 (10 October 2014)

Yes, you are correct.


----------



## Nudibranch (10 October 2014)

My licence comment was in response to dry rot's post...not talking about movement. incidentally welsh mountains dont weigh much...relatively anyway


----------



## jrp204 (10 October 2014)

Nudibranch said:



			My licence comment was in response to dry rot's post...not talking about movement. incidentally welsh mountains dont weigh much...relatively anyway 

Click to expand...

I wondered if that was the case.


----------

