# My Missing Arab



## timthearab (30 January 2009)

I am looking for my pure bred Arab.  Chestnut gelding 15.3hh.  4 white socks, white hooves, white blaze.  Freeze mark on left hand side under saddle area.  19MM.

Have notified Police, NED, Pleasure Horse Society, Arab Horse Society, Preloved, missinghorsesonloan, horsemart and many more web sites.  Would be very grateful for any info on him please.  He was sold in August 2008 in the Rotherham area,  Just found out on 4th January 2009 that he was sold whilst on loan, as you can imagine i am not a happy bunny.  Desperate for him to come come PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE XX
email me on: lisathomson1973@hotmail.com


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## stormhorse (31 January 2009)

have you contacted stolen horse register 
Stolen Horse Register
Phone: 0870 870 7107
Email: info@farmkey.co.uk 
&amp; Horsewatch?


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## timthearab (31 January 2009)

Hi, i have contacted both of those.  just playing the waiting game,  its awful.  Every time the phone rings u think its somebody with some info in Tim.

Thanks very much


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## spike123 (31 January 2009)

have you posted this on Arabian lines and Desert dancers websites.They are both arab websites that are popular and could wlell be someone will know the horses whereabouts now.


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## Cuffey (31 January 2009)

Seen it on Arabian Lines also on Horsemart never heard of Desert Dancers 
Getting up onto Stolen Horse register seems fairly slow just now
Timthearab sent info including Crime Number through earlier in the week


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## spike123 (31 January 2009)

link to the desert dancers site

http://arabmare.proboards18.com/index.cgi?


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## timthearab (31 January 2009)

Hi,, Thankx, i have just registered with dessert dancers, just waiting for activation, then i shall put add on web.  Thanks for your advice


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## LindaW (31 January 2009)

Do you have any pics?  Can ask tack shops in the area to put them up for you if you have a poster?


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## kendra2705 (31 January 2009)

hi how awful , but the one good thing is he is freeze marked your chances of getting him back has increased greatly just by doing this, good luck and i will keep an eye out .


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## timthearab (31 January 2009)

having trouble putting a picture of tim on this site, will try to do it tomorrow

Thanx


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## LindaW (1 February 2009)

Tried to pm you but can't as you aren't accepting pm's.  If you can, pm me the details of the person who sold him, I can discreetly ask around.  Found the pics on AL's, he is marked so similar to mine that I'd have noticed him if I'd seen him around.

Do you know how she sold him?  Ad?  National or local?  Private sale?


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## Ashgrove (1 February 2009)

Picture of Tim





I copied it from one of the sites, I hope you don't mind.


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## hellybelly6 (1 February 2009)

You must be going through the mill at the moment.  I will keep an eye and ear out for you.  I really hope you are reunited soon.  x


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## stormhorse (9 February 2009)

Now on stolen horse register


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## agreenhalgh (9 February 2009)

oh how awful, I will keep my eyes open for him, i really do hope you find him, hopefully his freezze mark is the key! good luck, and I will deff keep my eyes open for you. x


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## timthearab (11 February 2009)

Happy Birthday Timmy, were ever you are, thinkin of you always, please come home XXXXX  Tim is 19 today XXX


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## annunziata (11 February 2009)

good luck I hope you find him soon!!
xxx


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## lovecharles (11 February 2009)

god i can't imagine what you are going through. he is so beautiful. I will keep my eyes peeled.

Happy Birthday Tim xxx


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## timthearab (14 February 2009)

Its my birthday in a week, the best pressie would be to have timmy home XX


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## timthearab (28 February 2009)

Well my birthday has come and gone.
No Tim..
Where are you boy!!!


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## jhoward (1 March 2009)

im so sorry, is there no new leads atall?


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## niagaraduval (1 March 2009)

Aww.. He is lovely, I wish you the best in finding him, I would contact all slaughterhouses in the area too.
Good Luck.


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## timthearab (18 March 2009)

Hi, nothing from slaughter houses, and no new leads at all.  Things seem to  have dried up.  I just want him home. We have sent out over 1000 flyers to the area where he was last know.  I have had one or two calls just saying that they will keep their eyes open for him.  But sadly nothing has come of them at all.


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## EarlGrey (18 March 2009)

I'm so sorry. Just reading what has happened makes me feel really teary. This probably wouldn't work, but what about checking all the veterinary practices in the area in case they remember having to visit him at some point or try them with the name of the person who supposedly had him 'on loan' or the address he was on loan at.


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## Shilasdair (18 March 2009)

I haven't seen him on my yard (SJ and event dealers based there).
Have you tried sending photo posters to Hartpury, Bishop Burton and the other colleges, and ask them to display them in their equine facilities - students from all over the country attend them?
S


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## timthearab (20 March 2009)

Hi, Thanks for advice, will send some posters to them. We have sent flyers out to vets, farriers etc in the area, nothing???  Now it is starting to heat up abit his rug will hopefully be off soon and his freeze mark can be seen.  
Been on phone to police today, very blunt and abrupt,  NOTHING TO TELL ME !!!


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## timthearab (3 June 2009)

Still playing the waiting game....  We have located Tim but legal red tape is in way..  Found in Scotland!!!!   Big thank you to PC Richards &amp; Ali &amp; Katie (missinghorsesonloan)  There is a little light at the end of the tunnel (i think !!)


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## Sugarplum Furry (3 June 2009)

SO glad you have located him, I really hope he's back home with you very soon. Good luck. K x


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## Buggy (5 June 2009)

Have been following your posts, am so glad you have found him! Hope you get him back soon x


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## MHOL (5 June 2009)

Keeping everything crossed for you, Ali has been discussing this case with another policeman, we are always here for you, just pick up a phone if you need to, we are glad to of helped, Tim has given hope to all the other owners with their horses missing. With help horses can be located and eventually retrieved, selling horses while on loan is BIG business as we have found out, it is treated as a civil matter but in reality it is a criminal case, they "intended to permanently deprive" the owner of their animals and that IS theft, so be warned.


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## Archangel (5 June 2009)

I'm so glad he has been found.


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## spike123 (5 June 2009)

Brilliant to hear you have found him. I hope you are to be reunited again soon!


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## timthearab (9 June 2009)

Going up to see my big boy tomorrow.  Have mixed feelings about it as i cant wait to see, touch and smell him again.  But it will leave me feeling so much more upset as i just want him home.  Some people need fags and booze, i need my horse!!! A happy endng will hopefully be on the horizon soon enough XX thank you to everyone for all your support through this tough time.  Ali &amp; Katie you are ..  FAB .. XXX  supportive and very understanding, just what an hysterical owner with a missing horse needs... Lets just hope that we get the out come and proscecution that we all need.


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## Faro (9 June 2009)

So pleased that you have located him and that he is (apparently) okay.  Fingers crossed that you get the outcome you want.  Please keep us updated.


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## ISHmad (9 June 2009)

So hope for the ultimate happy ending here.  Well done for never giving up on your horse, even when the odds seemed so incredibly stacked against you.  You will give so much hope to others who are still searching.  What an emotional day for you tomorrow, enjoy the moment.


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## MHOL (9 June 2009)

Lisa, Thinking of you tomorrow, Ali is hoping to talk to the police before you go, big hug and well done for seeing this through.


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## timthearab (15 July 2009)

Well what can i say.....  I know, why do we have Police!!!!   Have been informed that Louise Coombs of Rotherham has admitted stealing &amp; selling and has been CAUTIONED!!!!!  And apparently a conclusion has been reach by the Police.    Yet here i am with absolutley nothing!!!!   My Tim is still in Kilmarnock.  How does that work then, i just dont understand. Just watch this space. I SHALL NOT give up..  I have been told to do civil action, even though i am in this situation due to criminal offences it is still a civil matter. Will keep you all posted.


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## Cuffey (15 July 2009)

So sorry
I was hoping for good news
If you need help you know where to find me.


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## ISHmad (17 July 2009)

Oh no I'm so sorry to hear this.  If there is ANY justice in this world Tim will be home again.


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## spike123 (17 July 2009)

Oh no this is not the outcome you would expect.I really hope you manage to get Tim home again soon.He is your horse and that has been proved by this woman admitting loaning him from you and selling him on.She has broken the law and a caution is something that will remain on record so please keep going and don't give up on Tim. Have you tried going to the press and seeing if any one can help make this more public. It may help you get him back again if the police are under pressure from the public.


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## timthearab (25 July 2009)

I have been in contact with my local MP and he has rattled a few cages (hopefully)  Fingers crossed.  Will go public shortly if we get nothing back from that.  Then we will see what will happen when big pressure is applied.  Its heart breaking to loose my Tim, but to find him and prove beyond reasonable doubt that i am his owner to be told i cant have him is like loosing him all over again.   I wont give up!!  that is for sure.


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## Cuffey (25 July 2009)

Fingers and toes crossed for some progress soon


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## dingle12 (26 July 2009)

Ive just seen this post i really hope you get things sorted. Did you go see him? is he well? i hope his new owners are helping you out.


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## timthearab (26 July 2009)

Yes i did go and see him, he is looking ok.  People that have him at moment are making a difficult situation even worse for me. Not very obliging!!!


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## timthearab (3 August 2009)

Still without my horse.  Police have said nothing else they can do, i have to sort it out myself.  Civil court, court order etc etc etc.  Have recently found out from local people in scotland that Tim was purchased by a horse dealer!!! Im not giving up not until Tim is home


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## jhoward (3 August 2009)

id be a bit more forceful with the police, as basically its theft,. i would of thought it followed the same rules as cars.. 

car stolen 
new owner 
police find car and return to original owner.. 

may be worth finding out abit more about that side of the law. ??


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## somethingorother (4 August 2009)

I remember seeing this when you first posted about him... so sorry he's still not back with you, but at least you know he is safe and well. I don't understand how they have not returned your 'property' to you, lazy police! 

Have you got solicitors involved now i take it? 

Keep us updated x


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## Megan_T (4 August 2009)

Just read through this whole post for the first time - I do hope that you get some good news very soon. Keep us updated  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Good vibes coming your way xx


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## lhotse (4 August 2009)

Personally, if he was mine, I would be going up with a horsebox and his papers and a couple of heavies and he would be coming back home. The police have cautioned the person who you loaned him to for theft, therefore, they have accepted that the horse belongs to you and was taken from you illegally. I fail to see how you would be in trouble for reclaiming what is legally yours.


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## brighthair (8 August 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, if he was mine, I would be going up with a horsebox and his papers and a couple of heavies and he would be coming back home. The police have cautioned the person who you loaned him to for theft, therefore, they have accepted that the horse belongs to you and was taken from you illegally. I fail to see how you would be in trouble for reclaiming what is legally yours. 

[/ QUOTE ]

this^^^^ - out of interest if you rang the police, said I am going to claim my property, you know the horse is mine and I am going on x day at x time and need you there whilst I reclaim the horse, what would they do? They couldn't arrest you for stealing?


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## ellamanamou (8 August 2009)

yes they can !!! i lost 3 to a woman i loaned to . she refused to give them back and the police told me that if i went on her yard to get them i would be arrested for tresspassing !  she sold 2 on and kept the best one !   LOL I STILL HAVE THE PASSPORTS !  she obviously just got 3 more ---- even though i phoned the passport company that had issued my passports and said they had been stolen. good one defra -- as usual.  in the end i had to give up . the police just didnt want to know and i couldnt afford to bring any kind of civil court case-- which is why i loaned them in the first place .  NEVER EVER LOAN


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## Rollin (8 August 2009)

Just a thought if the police are being less than helpful.  The lady who was Chairman for BHS Scotland, although not now, Anella Cowan, is a Sheriff.  Why not try emailing her I think BHS Development Officer for Scotland could put you in touch.

See what she has to say.  I was not aware that some thieving is civil and other thieving is criminal!!!  Was the theft of Shergar a Civil matter?


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## cariad (8 August 2009)

Rollin, theft is where you take something belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving them of it and is a criminal offence. The civil version is called conversion and it's where you have something in your possession to start with (sometimes illegally, though you may not be aware of that) and then you either form the intention to keep whatever it is or you do something as if it was yours i.e. sell it which you have no right to do.  This has to be pursued through the civil courts and the remedy is either return of the goods or compensation.

If you put a horse out on loan, it remains yours no matter how long the loaner has it and regardless of whether you go to see it or not. There is no specified period after which an item, including a horse, automatically belongs to the person loaning it. You have to actively sell or gift it to the loaner for ownership - ot "title" to pass. If you don't have title to something, you cannot therefore pass title on - you don't have it to pass! Therefore you cannot pass on legal ownership. However many times a horse is passed on from the original owner in these circumstances, title never passes and always remains with the original owner.

If the horse is successfully retrieved from the last person "owning" it - and they may be entirely unaware they do not actually own it, having thought they bought it legitimately - then that person can lose out, as they end up with no horse and no automatic compensation for the purchase price. They have to turn to the person before them to look for recompense and so on. It's a messy and difficult business, to say nothing of the cost and most people don't bother. Quite often, the owner retrieving the horse will pay a nominal sum to the last "owner" as they're so pleased to take the horse back, but they're not obliged to.

Trespass too is a civil offence, not a criminal one. If you are trespassing, knowingly or unknowingly, you must leave as soon as asked to do so. However, if the person upon whose land you are trespassing wants to pursue it through the courts, then if they want some compensation, they have to show that some damage has been done to be compensated for, otherwise the compensation for the trespas itself is usually nominal and was a low as £50 in a recent case where it was decided there was a trespass, but only for a short time. Usually not worth pursuing unless you're very vindictive and/or rich!

Please do not rely on this brief explanation if you are in this situation, but always, always, take independent legal advice on your particular circumstances before doing or not doing something which may have adverse consequences for you, legal or otherwise.


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## cariad (8 August 2009)

Sorry, I should also have made it clear that if you are successfully sued for trespass, the compensation figure you have to pay may be quite small, but you may also find yourself liable for the costs of the other side as well as your own and these are likely to be a LOT! The "winner" in a court case generally gets their legal costs paid and does not have to pay the loser's, except in small claims, where no costs to either side are usually awarded.


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## Rollin (8 August 2009)

Yes I am aware of the law of trespass or as it was when I obtained my A level in English Law. ( a long time ago!)

However, the law of trespass is somewhat different in Scotland.  From reading the posts it appears that this horse has been stolen and the police are treating the theft as a 'civil' matter.

I would take legal advice in Scotland if it were my horse.


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## cariad (8 August 2009)

Yep, quite right. I just set out the English law as it is a point that crops up quite a lot on here where horses go missing on loan. I don't even know if they have conversion in Scotland, either. You will know the old saying that possession is nine tenths of the law, which strictly speaking is not true, but it ain't half hard getting your own property back sometimes. It's a wonder anyone ever risks loaning a horse out at all, though I have done it myself with no problems.

Conversely, there's also no easy answer where you get lumbered with someone's horse when they disappear. You can only sell in certain circumstances and meanwhile you have to pay for it's keep etc.


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## Rollin (8 August 2009)

I actually suggested some time ago that people who take horses on loan pay a deposit at least equal to the 'meat value' which would at least deter some sales at markets.  You could not rent a flat or hire a car without some sort of security.

Being left with someone's horse is another problem.  A British resident in France was faced with that when the ex-pat lender returned to the UK.  Doubly difficult when you are even more unsure of the law in France.


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## cariad (8 August 2009)

But I suppose the problem with that is that people who are looking for loans are those without the necessary capital for a horse in the first place, otherwise they'd buy - or would they? With a loan you can always give it back (theoretically) at short notice, but if you have to sell, it can be difficult. Also, would a deposit of meat money be sufficient compensation for what you know is a good horse that you're loaning out because you don't want to lose sight of it in the long term by selling. 

Non horsy people are often amazed when I explain to them that with horses, loaning and sharing is quite common. They can't understand it. You don't do it with dogs, or cars or whatever and they can't believe we hand over our animals to what could be complete strangers with no money changing hands and very often nothing in writing (not that it's a lot of good sometimes even if there is). But we do and very often it works well. Did for me. Welcome to the wonderful and mysterious world of horses!


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## timthearab (22 August 2009)

I have my first court date through for civil against original loanee for return of goods, need paperwork from that to take to scotland.  Had some money kindly donated to pay for court fees.  Missing horses on loan have been great support and big thanks to BJ for donation XX


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## Rollin (22 August 2009)

I still don't understand why stealing someone's horsebox is a criminal offence but the horse is a civil case!!


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## zsmm4 (22 August 2009)

I think its because the horse was origuinally on loan. The owner still owns the title so the loanee couldnt sell this on, so legally the loanee has only sent the horse somewhere else even though money has changed hands. I still dont understand wht the poriginal owner cant reclaim her property though, no matter who has the horse.


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## timthearab (2 October 2009)

Hello All
Just a quick update.......  Original loanee who sold him on has put in a defence against the case, therfore  i am still awaiting a new court date and having to fill out yet another form!!!
Still without Tim and getting sick of playing the waiting game AGAIN !!!!!  Wont give up or rest until he is home with me, and justice has been served!!!!


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## brighteyes (2 October 2009)

Been following this - don't give up!


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## Rollin (2 October 2009)

Good for you don't give up.  As they say The 'Law is an Ass'.


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## jhoward (2 October 2009)

dont give up, im sure yr lad will come back to you, i can only imagine how emotional it is for u


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## CalllyH (2 October 2009)

just read this - so shocked. good luck with it all - i really hope you get him back


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## Rhiann0n (2 October 2009)

Just read through all this - you must be frantic!!

Hugs and vibes for your court case


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## dozzie (2 October 2009)

What a nightmare for you! Hope you get him back soon.


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## George Michie (2 October 2009)

there's a word for people like that 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Best of luck getting your boy back


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## mtj (3 October 2009)

There could be legal reasons for not doing this, but have you considered posting lots of photos of Tim on this site.

If i was the person keeping him in Kilmarnock, i would be absolutely mortified if it was locally known that my "new"horse was stolen and I was not co-operating with the owner.

I'm sure there are lots of us who would be happy to regularly "bump" your photos to keep this high profile.

Hope you are reunited soon.


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## brighteyes (3 October 2009)

I'm not 'getting it' either.  The original loaner has admitted to selling the horse. I assume this is a form of theft? There have definitely been others stolen and recovered from unsuspecting families who have bought them in good faith and had no legal comeback regarding the money.  What on earth is different in this case?   
	
	
		
		
	


	













Was there a signed loan contract?


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## Spyda (3 October 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Hello All
Just a quick update.......  Original loanee who sold him on has put in a defence against the case....

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh I am just dying to know what rubbish this Louise Coombs person is going to dredge up. It will be on record that the Police have cautioned her after she _admitted_ to stealing and selling Tim without your consent. What leg is she intending to stand on?

God, this beaurocratic cr*p makes my blood boil. He's YOUR horse - why isn't he back in your possession? If the new buyer has a gripe loosing their purchase money (as I can well imagine they will have) - well let _them_ take Louise to court to sue for compensation. THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD WORK. 

There's a lesson for all of us in this somewhere. When we purchase a horse we need to know who it belongs to and smell a rat if there is anything even slightly amiss.

Assuming you have Tim's original passport, Louise must have obtained an alternative one for him before selling him. Presumably this will be newly issued? Since all horses have needed a valid passport for some time now, a newly issued passport accompanying a horse offered for sale, might now been viewed as an indicator that more information needs to be gained on the horse's history. I'd have wanted to call his freezemark company and check his previous registered owner. 

I do wish you all the luck I can. You should not be in this position and I _really_ feel for you. Well done for NOT giving up. 

Spyda 
x


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## timthearab (3 October 2009)

His passport is still with him.   With my name still on it. It is a fraudulant passport as he has been clocked somewere along the line making him now 11 instead of his 19 yrs of age.  Police didnt even look into this, i have spoken to trading standards and am liasing with them at present. I still have all his paperwork and foaling certificate etc.  Cant understand how somebody would puchase a pure bred arab and not ask to see paper work or ask the question why a man took him to the sales when it doesnt match name on passport as that is still me.!!!!!!!! If anybody wants to print off posters of him for any reason you can go to Missinghorsesonloan website and select the Tim section.  Thanks XX


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## cullord (3 October 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
His passport is still with him.   With my name still on it. It is a fraudulant passport as he has been clocked somewere along the line making him now 11 instead of his 19 yrs of age.  Police didnt even look into this

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG. It gets worse and worse. How can this person be getting away with this? Why isn't something being done? Hardly gives the right message, does it.

Good luck getting your boy home soon.


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## Spyda (3 October 2009)

[ QUOTE ]

OMG. It gets worse and worse. How can this person be getting away with this? Why isn't something being done? Hardly gives the right message, does it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto ^^^^


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## timthearab (4 October 2009)

I know,  its something that only happens in a film or you dream about it as your worst nighmare &amp; fears!!!!
But for me unfortunatly i get up every morning and Tim is the first thing i think of, i go to bed and Tim is the last thing i think off.  This has taken over my entire life.  I shouldnt have to be dealing with this.  He should be at home with me but the Law thinks otherwise!!!!


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## Rollin (4 October 2009)

Have you thought of getting a Consumer Programme like Watchdog, You and Yours or Rogue Traders on your case?  They would highlight the stupidity of the law.


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## amc (4 October 2009)

Rollin, what a good idea, It beggars belief that this is still going on and this poor horse isn't back with his rightful owner, I really hope that the woman who has illegally sold this horse on &amp; fraudulently had another passport issued gets her just desserts !


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## Doris68 (4 October 2009)

This is such a ludicrous situation to be in - I canot believe that the law is such an ass.  I agree with Rollin ^^ and perhaps the Jeremy Vine programme on BBC Radio 2 (worth a go maybe??).

I truly hope that this will be resolved for you, sooner rather than later. Fingers crossed for a successful outcome.


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## timthearab (6 October 2009)

Its totally insane!!!!!!  We had loan agreement drawn up and both parties signed it.... I wont rest till Tim is back home,  Good help the Civil Courts lol.  Hope it goes my way at long last!!!


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## R.A.H (25 November 2009)

Hi, is there any news on Tim yet?


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## timthearab (4 December 2009)

Hi  Not a word,  still battling on.   English scottish divide is a total crock of S...   still no Timmy yet!!!


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## Tinsel_Toes (4 December 2009)

fingers crossed for you he's home soon.


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## Persephone (4 December 2009)

My thoughts are with you. Hate to think of you going through this.


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## timthearab (21 December 2009)

tim home for christmas


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt84/bigal007/timhomeforchrismas.jpg


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## timthearab (21 December 2009)

link below to old thread for new readers

many thanks

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/sh...ID=#Post5150061


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## Janette (22 December 2009)

That is a gorgeous picture, and a truly Happy Ending.
Well done for persevering and I'm so glad it all worked out as it should have done a long while ago.

Big Hugs.


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