# Mcjonnas v Kambarbay



## NoltonSeaShell (14 January 2012)

I'm undecided which one to use, I will be breeding with a chestnut tb so would be guaranteed a palomino, which I love, used to have a little palomino called taffy that I sadly outgrew.

Mcjonnas is a cremello Czech warmblood. 
Kambarbay is a perlino Akhal Teke.

Has anybody used this two stallions? Any advice


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## eventrider23 (14 January 2012)

The choice if a tough one.  If between only those two stallions, I can only say McJonnas is already a proven sire in that he has stock on the ground, etc and so you will have some idea of what type of foal's he will throw whereas Kambarbay is a complete unknown.


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## nokia (14 January 2012)

I'd be checking both stallions comp records before breeding from either..


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## rachi0 (15 January 2012)

I have a palamino Mc Jonnas Colt (born May 2011).. he is gorgeous!
My friend had a Mc Jonnas Buckskin Colt (born May 2011) he is gorgeous too! Both colts have great personalities!! very friendly nice to deal with! - and both mares normally produce rather unfriendly skittish foals...


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## longtermbreeder (15 January 2012)

I bred a gorgeous palomino filly using McJonnas from a 15.2hh fine mare; good natured, ideal conformation and very uphill correct paces. She sold within 2 weeks of birth for a large sum of money.... I am hoping to use Kambarbay on my little WCxTB mare this year. Have to say not bothered about competition results, I'd rather know I'm breeding a good natured riding horse for my own pleasure in a golden colour


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## katastrophykat (15 January 2012)

Mcjonnas!! He is lovely, a nice stamp of a horse- I was going to use him on my mare a good few years ago (my youngster is rising three) and only didn't because I found a nice young event stallion locally who was v v cheap!!


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## magic104 (15 January 2012)

nokia said:



			I'd be checking both stallions comp records before breeding from either..
		
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Why?  The poster hasn't said they want a competition horse & both these sires should be able to produce that.


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## alfiesmum (15 January 2012)

another vote for mcjonnas 

friend had a filly of his and she had a lovely temperment


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## nokia (16 January 2012)

Why check a stallions comp record !! Are you serious...anyway not getting into this Solaris Sports Horse is great thread !! 

Its getting BORING now


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## magic104 (16 January 2012)

nokia said:



			Why check a stallions comp record !! Are you serious...anyway not getting into this Solaris Sports Horse is great thread !! 

Its getting BORING now
		
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You have not answered the question, what does it matter if the person concerned is after colour & a riding club horse?  Now if they wanted to be competiting at Badmington or Hickstead or GPS dressage, fine, otherwise what does it matter.  Most horses are held back by their rider anyway, so matters not a jot about their ability.  Most people who breed for themselves dont take into account market conditions because they are not considering selling on (big mistake).  So yes I am serious, what difference does their competition record make to this posters request???


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## lindsayc31 (16 January 2012)

I have to say that if it's a TB mare I'd probably plump for McJonnas myself. I think Kambarbay is a fabulous young stallion and had considered using him myself this year, but my TB mare is a little long and rangy (ex racehorse) and having had a serious look at his conformation and type, chances are I would end up with a foal that was very lean and greyhound looking. It all depends on what you want your foal for, McJonnas will add bone and substance. Can I just add that with him being a perlino there is an outside chance he could throw a buckskin, something I had no idea could happen until my friends mare had one last season, everyone thought she was a cremello welsh D, and my friend used her chestnut stallion to cover her and although she bred a lovely pally filly the year before, she had another stunning filly but she is definately a buckskin!!! Hope you you end up with a lovely foal either way!!!


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## amy_b (16 January 2012)

I think Opie has answered your question really well and would agree that basically it depends on what your mare is like and what you want your foal to be like, Mcjonnas is quite obviously a warmblood and is alot heavier, whereas Kambarbay will add blood.


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## NoltonSeaShell (16 January 2012)

I know it's quite superficial of wanted to breed a palomino, and choosing a stallion to breed one rather then their comp record, but I'm breeding this foal for myself and only myself. I think I'm being swayed towards mcjonnas! Especially with my mare being so slight. I would like to do a bit of eventing, but not it's not the main attraction for me. 

I will be looking at the stallions comp records, and whilst they are important to look at it's not the be all and end all. My mares sire won the champion stakes and several other races However she is no where near that stand so I don't believe it has a huge impact! 

In the end as long as I have a healthy happy mare and foal I'll be happy!


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## magic104 (16 January 2012)

NoltonSeaShell said:



			I'm undecided which one to use, I will be breeding with a chestnut tb so would be guaranteed a palomino, which I love, used to have a little palomino called taffy that I sadly outgrew.

Mcjonnas is a cremello Czech warmblood. 
Kambarbay is a perlino Akhal Teke.

Has anybody used this two stallions? Any advice 

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Is this the same mare that you posted about?

" have an ex-racehorse that is currently a field ornament! I've ridden her once and she reared up and fell backwards landing on me. Did you have to re-school? I'm just looking into some options as shes going to waste atm."

If it is then I am going to be very blunt here, dont do it.  If you have taken on an ex-racehorse then have to ask the question "Did you have to re-school?" then I doubt you have the experience to bring on a youngster.  Without knowing why your mare reared over backwards, there is no knowing if there is pain which could be bought back on when she is in the later stages of pregnancy.`Some ex-racers have been found to have issues which prevented them from racing properly, its not always due to them being too slow.  I maybe doing you an injustice, but from reading your posts, I get the impression you may have been around horses a few years, but dont actually have the knowledge to bring on a youngster.  This post which questions your knowledge, no one on here can advise you without knowing the mare & her conformation.  As the other poster said, the stallion owner has given you guide lines on what sort of mare are suited to each stallion, so good luck.


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## NoltonSeaShell (16 January 2012)

magic104 said:



			If it is then I am going to be very blunt here, dont do it.  If you have taken on an ex-racehorse then have to ask the question "Did you have to re-school?" then I doubt you have the experience to bring on a youngster.  Without knowing why your mare reared over backwards, there is no knowing if there is pain which could be bought back on when she is in the later stages of pregnancy.`Some ex-racers have been found to have issues which prevented them from racing properly, its not always due to them being too slow.  I maybe doing you an injustice, but from reading your posts, I get the impression you may have been around horses a few years, but dont actually have the knowledge to bring on a youngster.  This post which questions your knowledge, no one on here can advise you without knowing the mare & her conformation.  As the other poster said, the stallion owner has given you guide lines on what sort of mare are suited to each stallion, so good luck.
		
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Well... I've researched into her background recently, about two days ago. The man sold her cos he believed she wouldn't make it due to being quite short (15.2hh and he sold on another two from the same mother) then sold her to the man who we bought her off. We bought her the day after he bought her. Sold her to us as recently backed but quite green, says on the ascot website that she was unbroken. So we are assuming now that she bascially freaked, we didn't think oh she's not broken as she tacked up fine, went around for a bit fine and then freaked out. Your right I've been around then since i was 3, so it's been 18 year so far. I've actually broken two in and brought them on myself. I'm only sending my boy away because I have no time between uni, work and applying for full time jobs.


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## magic104 (16 January 2012)

NoltonSeaShell said:



			Well... I've researched into her background recently, about two days ago. The man sold her cos he believed she wouldn't make it due to being quite short (15.2hh and he sold on another two from the same mother) then sold her to the man who we bought her off. We bought her the day after he bought her. Sold her to us as recently backed but quite green, says on the ascot website that she was unbroken. So we are assuming now that she bascially freaked, we didn't think oh she's not broken as she tacked up fine, went around for a bit fine and then freaked out. Your right I've been around then since i was 3, so it's been 18 year so far. I've actually broken two in and brought them on myself. I'm only sending my boy away because I have no time between uni, work and applying for full time jobs.
		
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What do you mean quite short?  15.2hh for a racehorse is not short.  How old is this mare?  Also from my experience years in horses does not equate to having enough knowledge where breeding & youngsters are concerned.


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## NoltonSeaShell (16 January 2012)

Not once have I said I know about breeding which is why I've come on here for help which is what this forum is for, not for people to judge my riding ability/experience  when they don't know anything about it. I've rode many different types of horses which has given me a good base of knowledge. 

I've brought on horses that I've had from two and would now like to breed my mare to produce a foal. Everyone has to start some where. I come on here to ask about two stallions not to be judged whether or not I can bring on a youngster.


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## magic104 (16 January 2012)

NoltonSeaShell said:



			Not once have I said I know about breeding which is why I've come on here for help which is what this forum is for, not for people to judge my riding ability/experience  when they don't know anything about it. I've rode many different types of horses which has given me a good base of knowledge. 

I've brought on horses that I've had from two and would now like to breed my mare to produce a foal. Everyone has to start some where. I come on here to ask about two stallions not to be judged whether or not I can bring on a youngster.
		
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You are right it is to give advice, but it is also a reality check.  There are 100's of horses struggling to find homes & if you want to add to the numbers then the first thing is to take a good hard look at your mare.  The mare is the main ingrediant to this, not the stallion.  You ask about 2 completely different stallions for a mare no one has any idea of and expect to get decent responses.  Yes everyone does have to start somewhere but not at the expense of the animal.  I am seeing more & more people who think that because they have ridden for ex amount & been around horses for years can cope with bringing on a youngster.  You have a mare that has reared over backward yet seem not able to deal with it & now you want to put her in-foal?  I get this from the comments "Did you have to re-school? I'm just looking into some options as shes going to waste atm."

Sorry but that does not smack of someone with serious knowledge where bringing on horses is concerned.  If this mare was not in training "Sold her to us as recently backed but quite green," so how would they know she was not going to make it?  By the sounds of it she has not even been tried.  I ask how old, as surely rather then put her in-foal you should be getting her going as a riding horse, or is she now destined to just be a broodmare?  You know what people who breed from themselves, never take into consideration, will we actually get on?  Not every union is meant to be, so have you bred an animal that someone else would want to own?  Yes I am being harsh, because it sounds like you have a mare that you now cant ride, so rather then deal with it, its a case of lets get a foal from her.  There are more then enough breeders doing that already.  Sorry you dont like what I have to type, but I am on the side of trying to improve UK breeding.  We all have to start somewhere but it starts with the mare.  But you will do what you want regardless, oh & dont forget it does not always go to plan.  Very sadly 2 breeders have already lost a foal this year.


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## NoltonSeaShell (16 January 2012)

I didn't need a reality check, just some advice. It's up to you if you want to single handedly want to improve the UKs breeding but that doesn't mean if someone wants to breed a foal they shouldnt. How can someone start gaining breeding experience without first starting with an animal to breed. I don't think i can bring on a youngster... I have brought on a youngster. I simply inquired as to whether the person started schooling from the start, or worked with the horse and tired to expand on it. If you read my post correctly the man sold her as unbacked... The man who them bought her sold her to us a day later as backed! He clearly lied! She is 7, Im already bring my boy into work so wouldn't have enough time to go to uni, complete a dissertation, go to work, apply to the police, look after two horses, and school them both. She's not destined to be anything I am simply looking into my options with her. I can't sell her on. Its not because she isn't being ridden that I'm putting her in foal. My mare has good bloodlines. It's not that I don't like what your writing, you yourself admitted your being harsh. It's quite judgemental to judge someone's ability before knowing the whole case, and there's always a nicer way to put your point across. Obviously I will do the best I can for my mare, if I do put her in foal, with vets etc. I do realise that it doesn't all go to plan, but thats why we always just have to try our best and hope for the best.


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## lindsayc31 (16 January 2012)

can I just ask, if you are working, going to uni and doing a dissertation as well as bringing a youngster into work and state you don't have time to wok another, how would you have time to look after a foal? It is harder and longer hours in my opinion to properly handle and care for a mare and foal than a youngster. You don't have time to work 2 horses so how will you manage to care for 3? Having a mare in foal is not easy and when the foal is born, you must spend many hours just playing with it, or you will soon have a young horse who is wild and doesn't want anything to do with humans! You really need to think long and hard about your options, and I personally would get the mares teeth, back, pelvis and tack all checked in order to make sure she has no underlying physical problems before assuming she hasn't been touched and the gentleman (or not as case maybe!) lied to you. If there is anything at all that needs treatment, get it done. You could risk losing both mare and foal if there is anything that isn't picked up and dealt with.


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## NoltonSeaShell (16 January 2012)

lindsayc31 said:



			can I just ask, if you are working, going to uni and doing a dissertation as well as bringing a youngster into work and state you don't have time to wok another, how would you have time to look after a foal? It is harder and longer hours in my opinion to properly handle and care for a mare and foal than a youngster. You don't have time to work 2 horses so how will you manage to care for 3? Having a mare in foal is not easy and when the foal is born, you must spend many hours just playing with it, or you will soon have a young horse who is wild and doesn't want anything to do with humans! You really need to think long and hard about your options, and I personally would get the mares teeth, back, pelvis and tack all checked in order to make sure she has no underlying physical problems before assuming she hasn't been touched and the gentleman (or not as case maybe!) lied to you. If there is anything at all that needs treatment, get it done. You could risk losing both mare and foal if there is anything that isn't picked up and dealt with.
		
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I finished uni in may... If i breed this year i will have the foal next year, And then would just be working a part time job whilst looking for a full time job. Others manage working a full time job and looking after horses so I'm assuming I will be able to as well.


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## NoltonSeaShell (16 January 2012)

Also... It is stated on the ascot sales website that she was sold unbroken, I bought her the day after off the man who bought her. So pretty impossible that he had her broken within a day.


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## magic104 (16 January 2012)

NoltonSeaShell said:



			I didn't need a reality check, just some advice. It's up to you if you want to single handedly want to improve the UKs breeding but that doesn't mean if someone wants to breed a foal they shouldnt. - Correct, but not if the mare is unsuitable or the person concerned has no idea how to bring on a youngster so it is a well adjusted adult.


How can someone start gaining breeding experience without first starting with an animal to breed. - By gaining experience from others, spending time around mares & foals.  It is not that difficult to do.  Even a couple of weeks is better then nothing.

I don't think i can bring on a youngster... I have brought on a youngster. I simply inquired as to whether the person started schooling from the start, or worked with the horse and tired to expand on it. - What sort of youngster?  They are not all the same & some especially with the intelligence of the TB's, Arabs etc are quicker to learn then their handlers!

If you read my post correctly the man sold her as unbacked... The man who them bought her sold her to us a day later as backed! He clearly lied! She is 7, - So what does that tell you?  If she was flat bred then why was she not in training or even tested?  What does her breeder say about her?  What is her dam like?  Repeat the mare line is the most important.


Im already bring my boy into work so wouldn't have enough time to go to uni, complete a dissertation, go to work, apply to the police, look after two horses, and school them both. - So how do you expect to take on a foal if you are so busy?  They still have to be handled for the farrier, injections, worming etc.

She's not destined to be anything I am simply looking into my options with her. - So no plans for a 7yo who has issues with being ridden (seemingly not started properly)

I can't sell her on. Its not because she isn't being ridden that I'm putting her in foal. My mare has good bloodlines. - Why cant you sell her on?  Do you have any idea how many good TB mares with probably even better bloodlines & race record are struggling to find homes?

It's not that I don't like what your writing, you yourself admitted your being harsh. It's quite judgemental to judge someone's ability before knowing the whole case, and there's always a nicer way to put your point across. - I could put it nicer, but you know what, too many people now refuse to REALLY look at their mares before breeding.  There are so many decent mares out there already & people are struggling to sell them & their offspring for proper money.  One reason is the market is flooded with cheap offspring from broken down, unridable mares.  (And I did say only one reason).

Obviously I will do the best I can for my mare, if I do put her in foal, with vets etc. I do realise that it doesn't all go to plan, but thats why we always just have to try our best and hope for the best - Yep, but if you want proper advise then put up a photo of the mare, along with her breeding & exactly what you hope to gain from this breeding.  

I can tell you now it is a hell of a lot cheaper to buy a decent foal then it ever is to try & breed one.  But as you seem hell bent on it (and there is nothing wrong with it, so long as you are honest about your abilities & the mare) then give people the information to help you.  It is so frustrating that despite asking posters to put a photo & as much info & what they are aiming for we keep getting post after post asking what stallion with nothing to go on.  That tells me people's interest is limited as they would have been in here reading about peoples experiences etc.  If I had not been shown so many lovely mares going for meat then perhaps I would carry on with the bunny hugging, oh how sweet, you want to breed a cute little foal.  TBH I would rather see the people who spend time breeding good quality riding/competition horses being rewarded by finding good homes.
		
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## NoltonSeaShell (16 January 2012)

I am capable of bringing a youngster on. As much as I would love to go to a stud and spend time there, I have no contacts around here for such a thing to be a possibility . I'm not embarrassed to admit that I lack experience in breeding, I've admitted that. You seem knowledgeable about it and I would love to pick your brains over it all but you just seemed to judge me first without giving me the time of day. I wouldn't turn down anyone that was offering advice, as long as it was advice. I've brought on a cobxtb, a tb and helped school a friends polish Arab. I've emailed the breeder to find out more on her. Her dam was a broodmare, whimsey from Ireland. Her dam breed several good foals, from many different stallions. I finish uni in may, so would only have a part time job, so I would have plenty of time! She has no plans, this is why I'm looking into breeding, schooling, so I can have plans for her. I can't sell her on as she's part of the fam, She is also a wind sucker (I dont know if this affects breeding, I'm sure you'll let me know) I'm not breeding this foal to sell on, so I won't be adding to an already flooding market. I havent got a tidy full straight on picture of her but I can get one, her sire was tel quel from France, her dam was whimsey from ire. I would like to add weight and bone to her as she is quite slight. When the foal is old enough to be broken I'd like some schooling with an instructor and see where it takes us. I also hunt, so I'd like something that would be able to xc. I'm only 5ft, and light so the foal wouldn't have to a weight carrier as I would be the only rider. I've been honest about my experience, my ability and my mare, lying or deceiving would only be cheating us. There is no need to be frustrated, ok I didn't put a lot of information up, mainly because I was just enquiring about the two stallions. But if you wanted more information I would have happily posted about it that's all you needed to do was ask, rather than assume I'm clueless about it all. Neither of my horses or the foal would be going anywhere, so no need for them to even think about going for meat. I've even saved a cob stallion from the sales, who was going to be going for meat, he was gelded (had an op as one was hidden) I broke him and now he's with a young girl who loves him to bits! I could go out and buy an already established horse but is it wrong for me to want the experience of breeding myself? This would probably be the only one I would breed, I'm not just putting her with any stallion and producing foals left right and centre.


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## magic104 (16 January 2012)

NoltonSeaShell said:



			I am capable of bringing a youngster on. As much as I would love to go to a stud and spend time there, I have no contacts around here for such a thing to be a possibility . I'm not embarrassed to admit that I lack experience in breeding, I've admitted that. You seem knowledgeable about it and I would love to pick your brains over it all but you just seemed to judge me first without giving me the time of day. - Then I apologise, I did say I was going to be blunt.  I do not want to put you off, I want you to question it & look at why you would want to risk breeding. 

I wouldn't turn down anyone that was offering advice, as long as it was advice. I've brought on a cobxtb, a tb and helped school a friends polish Arab. - Ok, but I too have seen someone do this because they had years of riding.  What I saw though was someone who was not able to stay in balance on a youngster & who could not keep their hands still.  They gave conflicting aids to the youngster in turn causing issues.

I've emailed the breeder to find out more on her. Her dam was a broodmare, whimsey from Ireland. Her dam breed several good foals, from many different stallions. I finish uni in may, so would only have a part time job, so I would have plenty of time! She has no plans, this is why I'm looking into breeding, schooling, so I can have plans for her. I can't sell her on as she's part of the fam, She is also a wind sucker (I dont know if this affects breeding, I'm sure you'll let me know) I'm not breeding this foal to sell on, so I won't be adding to an already flooding market. I havent got a tidy full straight on picture of her but I can get one, - But no one can tell what the future holds & you may not even like each other.  What you breed has to have a value to others in case you do have to sell.

her sire was tel quel from France, her dam was whimsey from ire. I would like to add weight and bone to her as she is quite slight. When the foal is old enough to be broken I'd like some schooling with an instructor and see where it takes us. I also hunt, so I'd like something that would be able to xc. I'm only 5ft, and light so the foal wouldn't have to a weight carrier as I would be the only rider. - Ok put up a photo of your mare, I will see what I can find on her breeding in the meantime.

I've been honest about my experience, my ability and my mare, lying or deceiving would only be cheating us. There is no need to be frustrated, ok I didn't put a lot of information up, mainly because I was just enquiring about the two stallions. But if you wanted more information I would have happily posted about it that's all you needed to do was ask, rather than assume I'm clueless about it all. Neither of my horses or the foal would be going anywhere, so no need for them to even think about going for meat. I've even saved a cob stallion from the sales, who was going to be going for meat, he was gelded (had an op as one was hidden) I broke him and now he's with a young girl who loves him to bits! I could go out and buy an already established horse but is it wrong for me to want the experience of breeding myself? This would probably be the only one I would breed, I'm not just putting her with any stallion and producing foals left right and centre. - Can you get to Addington nr Buckingham on the 5th?  That is when the jumping & eventing stallions ae being showcased, the day before is dressage?
		
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## NoltonSeaShell (16 January 2012)

I understand that, but you haven't seen my riding to judge whether I ride correctly, however I do understand that many people will break in a horse and end up ruining it. There's nothing worse than a horse with a dead mouth because previous owners have been too heavy handed. I understand that, However I'm hoping I would have bred a nicely mannered athletic horse with a good dam and sire, which is why I'd like to choose the best stallion for her. 

I can send you the links of the information I've found so far if you'd like? Ive found quite a bit on her sire. Not so much on the dam. She was passported as a bay filly, although she's lightened up considerable since she was passported? Have you known this to happen? 

I can see on google maps how long it would take me, and how far it is. I live in Wales, and it would depend on what I'm working that week.


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## Fahrenheit (16 January 2012)

Hi NSS, 
Breeding can be the most rewarding experience but it can also be the most heartbreaking, there is no better feeling that getting a beautiful healthy foal on the ground and raising them.
A good starting book to read is called 'From foal to full grown', I can't remember the authors name atm.
I saw McJonnas in the flesh in 2010 and he was quite alot smaller than I expected him to be.
Have you looked at the stallion Magician GF, also cremello, he is bigger than McJonnas and also warmblood and I know the lady that runs the stud he is at, is very helpful 

http://www.shovernstud.co.uk/magician.html

There are plenty of breeders on here that are happy to help, we all started somewhere and I started many moons ago with 2 tbs


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## NoltonSeaShell (16 January 2012)

Thanks Bezique, I will look that book up! I'm bound to find it on amazon, or somewhere. I understand there can be heartbreak, a friend didn't even know her tb was in foal, went up the stable one day and found two dead twins. It was incredibly upsetting, but I would obviously know and the vet etc would be involved all the way through. I would just love the experience. Have you bred from Magician? As it would be both of ours first foal, would it be better to go for the same size as her or a bit bigger? I have so many questions!! Haha so if everything goes to plan expect lots of posts


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## NoltonSeaShell (16 January 2012)

Would anyone be able to explain nffr? I kinda get the gist of it but would like it explained a bit better! Rookie question I know


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## magic104 (16 January 2012)

I can send you the links of the information I've found so far if you'd like? Ive found quite a bit on her sire. Not so much on the dam. She was passported as a bay filly, although she's lightened up considerable since she was passported? Have you known this to happen? 

Ok, well as a racehorse she is in the lower bracket (the dam) - http://sporthorse-data.com/db.php?i=10763359&time=1326728565

She has 4 offspring unnamed & probably have been sold out of racing & are in private homes as riding horses.  The 3 that went racing look to be more PTP runners & one of them (2001) has since died.  Perhaps as they have ended up jumping that is why she was thought too small.  I would be having a good look at stallions & as your mare is a maiden?  Then look for one with stock on the ground from TB mares of similar stamp to your own.  If you like the offspring then this will narrow down the odds.  You say you dont need a large horse as you are only 5ft so what about a Welsh?  Without seeing your mare it is very difficult to advise you.  

I can see on google maps how long it would take me, and how far it is. I live in Wales, and it would depend on what I'm working that week.  - That is a shame as you would get to see a number of stallions away from home (much less relaxed) & you can see just how well behaved they are.  It is cost effective as just think how much time & fuel you will save!  You have an advantage as with the TB being so pure they cross well with most other breeds.  You can gain knowledge from reading, including forums & asking questions along with visits to shows etc.  Breeding classes where you can see the mare with her offspring, a great way to see what the offspring are like.  There are the BEF Futurities another source of knowledge.


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## magic104 (16 January 2012)

NoltonSeaShell said:



			Would anyone be able to explain nffr? I kinda get the gist of it but would like it explained a bit better! Rookie question I know 

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No Foal Free Return, if the mare is not in foal (gen by Oct) then you get a free return for the following year.


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## crabbymare (16 January 2012)

Nffr = no foal free return. Normally means if the mare does not get in foal this year then there is no stud fee to pay for that stallion the next year. There are variations on that, some studs would say no live foal or 1st October not in foal but its only the stud fee that would be free and transport costs if you are using fresh or frozen semen and keep if you are using natural cover would not be included.


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## Fahrenheit (16 January 2012)

NoltonSeaShell said:



			Thanks Bezique, I will look that book up! I'm bound to find it on amazon, or somewhere. I understand there can be heartbreak, a friend didn't even know her tb was in foal, went up the stable one day and found two dead twins. It was incredibly upsetting, but I would obviously know and the vet etc would be involved all the way through. I would just love the experience. Have you bred from Magician? As it would be both of ours first foal, would it be better to go for the same size as her or a bit bigger? I have so many questions!! Haha so if everything goes to plan expect lots of posts 

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I am considering using Magician GF on one of my mares, its between him, a stallion in Ireland and a stallion in Denmark lol!! Its not my usual breeding direction but sometimes you have to do things for the passion. Finally decision will come down to whether I can warrant following my heart for this particular breeding after i've done the sums for all the other mares I have 

Usually I breed bays, greys, blacks and chestnuts 

My 15.1 TB went to a 16.2 WB for her first foal, since she has been back to the 16.2, to a 16.3 three times, a 14.2 once and is now infoal to a 17.1h. I wouldn't say Magician is too big for a first foal to a 15.2 TB


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## Faberge (17 January 2012)

If you're set on a cremello, this looks one of the nicest I have come across:
http://www.hillbrookstud.com/index.php?p=1_7


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## Fahrenheit (17 January 2012)

Faberge said:



			If you're set on a cremello, this looks one of the nicest I have come across:
http://www.hillbrookstud.com/index.php?p=1_7

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Do you know if he has been graded yet? Haven't spoken to his owner in ages but last time she did mention she was planning to put him forward


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## longtermbreeder (19 January 2012)

Bezique said:



			Have you looked at the stallion Magician GF, also cremello, he is bigger than McJonnas
		
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Magician GF and McJ are both lovely stallions, but please be careful about putting your mare to a larger stallion, especially if she is a maiden. Many foaling problems are caused by large foals from small framed mares. As a rule of thumb we never put a maiden in foal to anything more than a hand taller and the stallion can only have marginally bigger shoulders/bone than the mare (broad heads above the eyes and big shoulders are biggest cuplrits for foals getting stuck on the way out). I know the mare largely determines the size of the foal but the stallion also passes on half the genes and this does have an effect on the foal size. If first foaling goes well then you can always put to a bigger, rangier stallion the next time.


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## Fahrenheit (19 January 2012)

Magician is 16h and the mare is 15.2h so quite complimentary height wise hopefully


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