# Help - horse sticking tongue out + dressage judging



## JoJo_ (30 July 2011)

My horse has always stuck his tongue in and out, in and out from time to time. Its not tension at all, its like he just plays a bit. We did two prelims today which he did his tongue playing in. The first judge said if he sticks it out the front, thats ok but if its out the side of his mouth then that should be marked down for resistance/tension. Cooper sticks it out the front so judge didnt mark him down at all and he got 2nd with 69% - did a fab consistant, relaxed test. The 2nd judge did mark him down for it though, gave us a 5 in our collectives and commented on it. I told her what the other judge said about sticking it out the front or side and she said no it doesnt matter. Even said her horse occasionally does the same thing but they still have to mark them down for it. She gave us 3rd place and 65.7%. 

Do any of you have opinions on this? How can I stop him from doing it? 

I dont use a flash on him as he is the sort of horse that doesnt like being restrained and I think he might get tense with something tying his mouth shut. I use a NS team up bit which he goes sweetly in.


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## Mavis007 (30 July 2011)

My horse also sticks his tongue out a lot, even when he is just standing in his stable. From advice on here I am currently competing him in a cotswold tongue saver bit which has helped. The other bit that was recommended was the NS verbindend which I may also give a try. I have to admit though, I have had to give up and tighten his flash strap just for competitions. I decided I spend a lot of time and money competing so if he has to put up with it for a short while every 2-3weeks and I let him do what he wants the rest of the time, it isn't too much to ask of him. There is nothing more frustrating than doing what feels like a lovely test to find you have been marked down the whole way through for the horse sticking its tongue out


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## Britestar (31 July 2011)

Having written for quite a few judges, most of them will mark down for tongue out or open mouth. Regardless of you knowing why he does it, they see it as a resistance.


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## dollyolly (21 August 2011)

I too have this problem with my boy!  Apparently, the BD rules say a maximum of 5 points for every movement where the tongue sticks out!  Great when you have a horse which is capable of 9's, as mine is!!  We have found that if we thinly slice an apple and push as much as we can into his mouth just as he goes into the test he'll mess with the apple and not put his tongue out.  For British eventing this has meant the difference between a 42 dressage and a 23!!!!  So it matters!  The thing is, it isn't resistance for us.  It is a habit created by the dressage world - would you believe it!!!!  Which is even more frustrating, dressage created it and now holds it against him!  The NS bit hasn't made a jot of difference and the more movement we give his jaw the better - so I can't do the flash thing.

My dream is a campaign for the tongue to be ignored!  Having seen a show jumper come into the puissance wall at 7'2" and 'pop  it' with her tongue hanging out - show me the resistance!!!!

As you - any suggestions more than welcome.


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## onemoretime (21 August 2011)

Ive never used it but would "Bit Butter" be worth a try.  Might make if salivate a bit and stop poking tongue out at judge!!


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## Elsbells (21 August 2011)

dollyolly said:



			Having seen a show jumper come into the puissance wall at 7'2" and 'pop  it' with her tongue hanging out - show me the resistance!!!!
		
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I know zilsh about dressage as I can just manage to trot around a menage before heading through an open gate and for the hills on a hack and believe me, I have tried. But I am intrested in the tongue sticking out bit on this thread.

I thought horses did this when concentrating and learning, not resisting??? They cant be resisting when stood alone in the field looking at something in the distance surely........can they??

Love the quote dollyolly


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## dollyolly (21 August 2011)

onemoretime said:



			Ive never used it but would "Bit Butter" be worth a try.  Might make if salivate a bit and stop poking tongue out at judge!!
		
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Thanks for this only thing is we don't have a problem salivating!  It's like riding in a snowstorm at times! As soon as the bit goes in he drools and then within minutes of riding the froth is flying back at me like it's snowing! Sometimes I wonder if this is part of the problem because there is so much!

Elsbells - I know what you mean about concentrating and that's why it grieves me soooooo much!


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## TarrSteps (22 August 2011)

What other bits have you tried?  I know it's not necessarily a bitting issue per se and there can be many reasons why horses fiddle with the bit, stick their tongues out and produce excess saliva, but some metals don't suit all horses - it might be worth trying a stainless steel, synthetic mouthpiece and see if it makes a difference to the excess salivation.


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## GingerCat (22 August 2011)

Mavis007 said:



			My horse also sticks his tongue out a lot, even when he is just standing in his stable. From advice on here I am currently competing him in a cotswold tongue saver bit which has helped. The other bit that was recommended was the NS verbindend which I may also give a try 

Click to expand...

I'm sure this bit will help a lot.

I don't think people appreciate how much jointed bits can interfere with a horses tongue, causing discomfort.
I hate to see mouths strapped shut with a flash or crank noseband to stop bit evasion instead of trying to allieviate the problem.

To my shame I used a flash noseband on my gelding on the advice of his previous owner.
I eventually tried a bit suggested by a friend..a Sprenger Correction bit. My horse's whole way of going changed almost immediately, he went on the bit, carried himself beautifully..and no lolling tongue


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## Mari (22 January 2012)

Can I join the 'tongues out do not mean tension or resistance' crowd!  My horse also plays with his tongue at the side of his mouth.  Mostly when he doesn't have to think about what he is doing when ridden eg. walk.  If I ask for more demanding work & he has to concentrate he doesn't put it out.  He also does it in the stable, usually at feeding time or when he thinks the other 2 are getting too much attention.  Fortunately we have an enlightened judge who looks at the horse's way of going & if horse is relaxed & swinging through the movements without tension then we are not marked down.  I have tried just about every bit under the sun to no avail & throws his head around if I use a flash & gets really upset.  He has a moist mouth, mouths well on the bit & isn't strong in the hand.  His tongue isn't too big for his mouth.  Mostly I just accept that his quirk is to play with his tongue.


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## rotters13 (22 January 2012)

My horse does it too. The only thing that seems to work is just proving that its not a resistance by obvious relaxation and a virtually foot perfect test. Nothing else does! Urgh...


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## B-B (23 January 2012)

There is no BD rule for the mark.

The whole way of going is, taken into account


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## MCTM (23 January 2012)

I had a mare who did this almost constantly when ridden.  Spend a fortune trying different bits which made absolutely no difference whatsoever.  Tightening the noseband just increased any resistance/tension so often just used ordinary cavesson (had lots of comments from judges who suggested I try a tight flash...).  However if I had a really experienced judge they were often far fairer and (as Rotters13 says) if she was going really well in all other aspects they didn't mark us down.  I even got a 9 for a centre line with the comment "tongue out" and on the collectives a comment on the lines of "tongue out a lot but didn't interfere with the way of going".


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## FrodoBeutlin (23 January 2012)

However this is a problem that needs resolving, because while it's great that some judges don't mark it down, in truth, the higher you go up the levels the more of a problem it will become - whether the horse is tense or not, sticking the tongue out IS a major issue in a dressage test.


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## SplashofSoy (23 January 2012)

My friends horse contantly has her tongue sticking out the side of her mouth but this is because of a difficult birth as a foal and she actually has some of her jaw missing.  She only does low level dressage but has won many times in front of BD judges.  Never marked down or commented on ever so perhaps it is linked with way of going as an overall picture and the better judges dont look at it on its own, hope they wouldnt anyway.


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## oldvic (23 January 2012)

If a horse has it's tongue out then it's jaw cannot be relaxed. It may be basically going quite well but that last bit of connection and throughness will be missing so very high marks should not be possible. The horse going in a similar manner but without the tongue out must get a slightly higher mark and the similar one with a relaxed jaw and complete throughness must be higher still. It is possible to win classes with the tongue out, particularly if it is intermittent, if the horse is superior in other ways. A tight noseband is not the answer as the jaw still won't be relaxed but a correctly fitting flash/drop might be to encourage the mouth to stay shut. Alternatively a Micklem bridle may be more comfortable and help with the problem.


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## seabsicuit2 (23 January 2012)

My horse used to have her tongue out all the time as a 4 year old. She's now had 18 months off work for one reason or the other. She's been back in work for 2 weeks now and hasnt stuck her tongue out once. I'm wondering if it was a tension/pain issue when she was 4 years old? Anyway, I'm PRAYING that this will last!! She used to do such obedient little dressage tests but always got severely marked down for her little tongue.


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