# Being the boss



## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Hi all hope you can shed a little light 

How do I show my pony that I am the boss and not him? Ive tried telling him back when I come into the paddock with his breakfast but he is so impatient &#128531;

Any advice would be greatly received


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## J_sarahd (27 October 2017)

I wouldn't let him have his breakfast until he waits. That's what I've started doing with Max and what another girl on my yard does with her pony. Also, pressure and release is a very good way to train horses - so pushing him back and when he moves back, stop pushing. Make him do what you want and don't accept half-hearted results but give praise (release or his breakfast etc) when he does what you ask of him.


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## LaurenBay (27 October 2017)

what exactly is it that he is doing? how does he respond if you ask him to move back by placing your hand on his shoulder?  if he is bolshy around food then I would not give him food until he is waiting patiently. If he is trying to force his way out to get to the food and not listening to your hand then I would pop a headcollar on over the gate and put a little pressure on the rope to get him to move back, if needs be use the lead rope and give him a whack on the neck with it if he does not listen. I cannot abide rude Horses around food. Once he has backed up, let him have his food.


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## GirlFriday (27 October 2017)

OP, I'd not worry too much about 'being the boss' in general. Your horse probably has to be his own boss/follow an equine herd leader for at least 20 hours out of every 24. You're simply not going to be that individual in his life unless you want to go live in his paddock.

What you can work on is training good manners and that he listens to you when you're around. Why are you feeding in the field? Are there other horses in the field at the time? If this is your (fictional? - check OP's other posts...) 2yr old then he needs equine company in the paddock and not to be fed hard feed (probably at all but anyway) by a novice owner with other loose horses, recipe for disaster.


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Thank you all for your replies he is stabled at night at turnoutdurongtheday he is by him self. There are no other horses around. I feed him outside in his paddock pony nuts


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## fburton (27 October 2017)

Forget about trying to be 'herd leader' or anything like that. Instead, concentrate on teaching the horse to give you the behaviours you want and to not give the behaviours you don't want.

If he is pushing you around to get to the food, he will have learned that doing so means he gets food more quickly. One way or another he needs to (re-)learn that doesn't work - otherwise the behaviour is just going to continue and could even get worse. That doesn't necessarily mean you _have_ to use force or fear to keep him away from you. Although that may work, it is risky. If you go down that route, you _must_ be effective or else things will escalate: if he has to work harder and behave more aggressively to get food, that is what he'll learn to do. Alternatively, find another way to get the food to him without putting yourself in the position of being pushed around. From that perspective, I would echo all of GirlFriday's suggestions and questions.


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## ester (27 October 2017)

Why are you feeding him in the paddock when he is stabled every night?

Why is he on his own?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (27 October 2017)

ester said:



			Why are you feeding him in the paddock when he is stabled every night?

Why is he on his own?
		
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To add: Why is a young pony needing feed?


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## fburton (27 October 2017)

J_sarahd said:



			... Also, pressure and release is a very good way to train horses - so pushing him back and when he moves back, stop pushing. Make him do what you want and don't accept half-hearted results but give praise (release or his breakfast etc) when he does what you ask of him.
		
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Teaching him to move back is a great idea - it's an essential part of what makes a polite horse - but I would work on this separately with him using release and small rewards. Making breakfast the reward is too high stakes, at least initially, and potentially a distraction.

Taking small steps in the right direction is easier and safer than attempting to fix a large problem in one go. If can be done, of course, but takes skill to get right the first time.


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## ester (27 October 2017)

I think I'm agreeing with GF


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Why not? It&#8217;s a scoop of nuts he has I always turn him out then feed him it&#8217;s been our routine and why should he be with a herd?


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## ester (27 October 2017)




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## cobgoblin (27 October 2017)

Half term?


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

? Why is this funny


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Half term what do you mean?


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## Pinkvboots (27 October 2017)

horses are herd animals they like being with other horses and it can affect a horses well being being kept alone, you may not see the damage it does as there behaviour can vary from being subtle to quite severe depending on the horse, but over time it can be quite damaging and can cause a lot of problems.


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Can I say how utterly embarrassing you ladies are you should be ashamed! I&#8217;m a 33 year old women who is a novice pony owner who needs a little advice and you are basically laughing in my face! You should be ashamed of your self! I know the horsey world can be bitchy but wow !!


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Thank you for your reply much appreciated xx


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## Pearlsasinger (27 October 2017)

All 2 yr old ponies *need* to be kept in a herd, to learn how to socialise with other horses, which in turn will help your pony to understand that when you give an instruction, you expect it to be followed, just an older horse does.  It is extremely unusual for a young, unridden pony to need 'hard' feed (although tbf, it's not that unusual for them to be given it unneccessarily).  Ponies are bred to be hardy, good-doers, who can live out 24/7 on very rough grass.
It really isn't fair to a pony of any age but particularly not a youngster, to be kept in solitary confinement.


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Thank you so should I wean him off the nuts? And give him Hay at night? Also should I maybe loan him a companion?


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## fburton (27 October 2017)

For what it's worth, I thought the original question was quite reasonable.

Other issues are now being raised. A horse that can spend significant time with other horses is likely to be happier and hence easier to work with and teach.


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## Pinkvboots (27 October 2017)

As the poster above has said as his only 2 he must be incredibly bored on his own and only has you to interact with which is why he may be a bit bolshy and playful, young horses need interaction with horses of a similar age and older so they essentially learn how to behave in a herd and be social with each other, it might be worth feeding him in his stable before he goes out as that is more the done thing with horses. have you had older horses previously?


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## Pinkvboots (27 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			Thank you so should I wean him off the nuts? And give him Hay at night? Also should I maybe loan him a companion?
		
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is he solely on his own? like no other liveries you could pair up with?


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## GirlFriday (27 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			Thank you so should I wean him off the nuts? And give him Hay at night? Also should I maybe loan him a companion?
		
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Are you saying you don't currently give hay at night? What does he have in the stable?


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Yes he has a Hay net in there and a salt lick


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Yes there are others that he can see from a distance


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## Pinkvboots (27 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			Yes there are others that he can see from a distance
		
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I would try and get him in a field with others even if you have to move it's not ideal for a 2 year old to live totally alone, is there somewhere else you could move to into a proper livery yard set up where he can have company?


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## LaurenBay (27 October 2017)

Ahh I did not realize the pony in question is only 2.

I would suggest you get him a companion, Horses are herd animals and do not like being kept on their own. Other Horses will be able to teach him skills that you will not. You may even find he becomes less rude once the other Horses put him in his place. Horses learn most of their social skills and manners from other Horses. 

Regarding feed - if he absolutely needs a hard feed then feed him in the stable. He is better off with access to Ad lib hay instead though as pony nuts will do nothing for him. If you really want to feed a hard feed then I would at least switch to a balancer.


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## Pearlsasinger (27 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			Thank you so should I wean him off the nuts? And give him Hay at night? Also should I maybe loan him a companion?
		
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He certainly needs hay at night if he is spending the night in the stable and before long, if he doesn't do so now, he will need hay if spends the night in the field, depending on the quality/quantity of your grass.  Rather than just loaning one companion, he really needs to be with a mixed age herd of horses that he can play with and who will also teach him manners and social skills,  The kindest thing you could do for him is find somewhere where he can live out 24/7 with other horses at least until he is ready to be broken to ride and preferably thereafter too.  Try looking for a breeder, who would let you turn him out with their youngstock, or a grass livery yard.


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## FestiveFuzz (27 October 2017)

Ok, giving the benefit of the doubt here as it's a nice sunny day and almost the weekend. 

For a start I really don't buy into the whole "being the boss" thing where horses are concerned. I've been riding/owned horses for over 20 years now and not once have I considered myself to be their boss, or anything of the like. I expect them to be well mannered around me (heck they're too big not to be!) but that comes from consistent handling and training rather than being the boss. I work hard to set them up for success, part of which I would consider to be having them in a good routine. A 2yo kept on it's own will be lacking vital socialisation and I'm not surprised is pushing boundaries/unclear how to interact. Horses are herd animals and great moderators of behaviour through herd dynamics. I wouldn't keep any horse entirely alone. In your shoes I would look for a yard that has group turnout rather than getting a companion, as you may find with just two they end up pair bonding and then you'll have all manner of problems. I also think it's great for youngsters to go out in a herd rather than just one other so they learn how to behave and interact around others and will stop him getting too big for his boots.

I would also cut out any hard feed, I'd be surprised if he needs it. And yes definitely give ad lib hay at night.


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## ester (27 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			why should he be with a herd?
		
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well tbh it is laugh or cry for the poor horse potentially involved when someone comes out with something like this. Especially when no one said that it did need to be in a herd, they just asked why he was on his own. To which there may have been a perfectly reasonable medical or behavioural answer. 

So we currently have:
a welsh section a 2 year old that you have bought to ride
are keeping on livery
but is turned out on his own with no other horses around, but there are some in far sight. 
is kept in at night potentially with no hay
and is being bolshy at the gate because someone brings feed to it. 

Is it entire?


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## Shay (27 October 2017)

I am honestly torn between saying don't feed the troll and mixed horror / compassion for the OP if this is in any way true.  Ester you forgot to add that OP is a mum of 3 working 8 - 4 struggling to find time to muck out; no experience with horses but she has gone on a course. Wanted a horse because her best friend has one.  But quite upset that others at the livery have been remarking about how unsuitable an unbroken youngster is for a novice.

I've called someone out as a wind up before and it turned out to be true - I apologized then and I'll apologize now if I need to.

OP if this is any way true please get yourself some professional horsey help.  An unbroken youngster is not suitable for a novice owner.  This is a bit like the toddler time in a horse's life and it you don't allow him to socialize with his own kind and don't back / bring him on correctly you will end up with a horse who can't be managed and may well end up being shot.  I'm really sorry if that sounds harsh.  But horses have a finite time to really learn their manners both with each other and with humans.  You are in the middle of that time and you have a horse turned out alone.

As was suggested on one of your previous threads you might be better off selling this one, or sending him away to a professional for a couple of years to be backed and produced correctly.  And getting something more established and more suited to someone with limited experience and - as a mum - seriously limited time.


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## J_sarahd (27 October 2017)

I did not realise that this pony was a 2yo or the whole background to this thing. As many others have said, a pony this young needs that time to develop social skills and manners by other horses. That is the reason he's being bolshy and rude. As Shay said, this pony is in the 'toddler' stages of his life so needs that interaction with others before starting his education. Think of it like this - children who go to nursery or playgroups are less likely to find starting school as difficult as those who have had no interaction with other children. 

If what people are saying is true and you've bought this 2yo to ride and that you have no horsey experience, I really do feel for the poor pony. Youngsters should really only be bought by experienced equestrians. They require so much time (which apparently you're struggling for), compassion and discipline otherwise they're just going to turn into unrideable and rude monsters, basically. I've been around horses for 16 years and I still don't think I know enough to bring on a youngster, especially one that isn't backed yet. If you're expecting to just throw a saddle on this pony when he reaches maturity and ride off into the sunset, you're seriously going to have a wake up call in a few years. I definitely suggest you sell up and buy something more suitable if you're adamant on having a horse. With all due respect, this pony is going to be wasted with you because you won't be able to give it the proper education on your own.


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## ester (27 October 2017)

I guess we will see if they hang around this time and answer the questions asked by people who know what they are talking about and just want some more information to help or not, as they disappeared off the last thread with a lot of unanswered queries. 

Shay I have done that before too but the person actually took all of the advice, including the associated incredulous with amazing grace, I am less inclined to believe when people start flouncing about how bitchy the horse world is when the ridiculousness of their situation for their equine charge is pointed out.


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Thank you for all your replies. I am not selling my pony and I&#8217;ve decided to get another horse to keep him company and also do myself and my children can ride. Hopefully it&#8217;ll teach the pony a thing or too. Everyone starts somewhere I love my pony and I&#8217;m never selling him.


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## J_sarahd (27 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			Thank you for all your replies. I am not selling my pony and I&#8217;ve decided to get another horse to keep him company and also do myself and my children can ride. Hopefully it&#8217;ll teach the pony a thing or too. Everyone starts somewhere I love my pony and I&#8217;m never selling him.
		
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I thought you didn't have time to even muck out? Let alone look after two horses


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## Pearlsasinger (27 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			Thank you for all your replies. I am not selling my pony and I&#8217;ve decided to get another horse to keep him company and also do myself and my children can ride. Hopefully it&#8217;ll teach the pony a thing or too. Everyone starts somewhere I love my pony and I&#8217;m never selling him.
		
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The problem is that one other horse isn't enough to turn a youngster out with, really, they need a mix of companions, so that they have someone to play with and someone to teach them some manners and social skills.  Unless you are very careful/lucky you won't be able to separate the two to do anything with just one of them.


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Ive actually formed a really good routine with him and I&#8217;m down there a lot more that I thought I&#8217;d be


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## FestiveFuzz (27 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			Thank you for all your replies. I am not selling my pony and I&#8217;ve decided to get another horse to keep him company and also do myself and my children can ride. Hopefully it&#8217;ll teach the pony a thing or too. Everyone starts somewhere I love my pony and I&#8217;m never selling him.
		
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I'm honestly struggling to believe this is genuine now. A quick glance at your posts shows you're clearly massively out of your depth and of all the advice you've received on this and previous threads you've decided the best course of action is to buy another one when you're already struggling with the one you've got is beggars belief and being somewhat cynical, seems a bit goady after all the great advice you've received.


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## Charleyrobinson (27 October 2017)

Why would I make it up?


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## Shay (28 October 2017)

Who knows - people do.  Possibly to get a rise out of someone.  Perhaps for attention.  Maybe you are not and it really is as bad as this seems.

OP - my heart goes out to you.  There are clearly a number of significant issues here.  Please get some professional help.  I completely understand that you have fallen in love with your youngster.  But you are going to get your heart seriously broken as well as putting yourself and your children at physical risk.  Not to mention potentially ruining a young horse who had no choice in the matter.  You don't have to sell them - you just need help whilst you and they learn.  

I know it was said in an earlier reply but it bears repeating.   At 2 pony really needs to be out in a mixed age herd to learn what it is to be a horse and how to respond to his own kind.  You will then use that knowledge and those social skills to teach him how to interact with humans.  If those basic social skills are missing the horse will really struggle to understand training.  If you really want the best for them see if you can find somewhere where he can be out 24/7 in a herd at a location used to youngstock.  At least for the winter.  Then either bring him back next year and start to back him with professional help - or let him stay there for them to back him and work with him there.

It is so easy to ruin a youngster.


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## LadySam (28 October 2017)

See, the thing is OP, that at 2 years old he's still a baby.  He is most definitely not an adult yet.  He doesn't seem like a baby because he hasn't needed his mum for a long time and he seems quite independent, but he really is still a baby.  Mentally more than physically, though at 2 he's still got physical growing to do.

A big part of what that means is that he still needs other horses to teach him how to be a horse.  Horses are very social animals because they've been hardwired over thousands of years to be in a herd.  That means learning how to be part of a hierarchy and figuring out how to make his place in it.  There are important social skills other horses can teach him that you (or any human) just can't teach.  The social skills he will learn with other horses will set him up for every other experience he will have in his life, with humans or horses.

The companion horse you mention would be good for an older horse who has already learned these lessons and just needs a horsey friend.  But a baby like yours needs a herd at this point in his life to learn his lessons about his place in the world.

Lack of exposure to a herd at an early age can lead to all sorts of insecurities.  The big danger for you, especially with a Welshie, is aggressiveness - either to mask insecurities or just because he'll be full of himself without the experience of other horses to put him in his place at this crucial point in his development.  When you (or whoever) come to train and back him, you are inviting all sorts of unnecessary issues that you can prevent from happening now with proper socialisation.  This issue with manners around food you're seeing now?  Turnout with other horses could help you with that.

JJS just posted a video of her foal acting very big for her boots with her mum.  Watch it.  You will see how Mary, the foal's mother, deals with that.  Mayflower is only 5 months old, but a 2 year old horse still needs these kinds of lessons from other horses.  (May is half Welshie too, so you can see a bit of what you'll be in for.)

Honestly, this kind of exposure to other horses now will help him develop into a happier and more confident adult who understands the world around him.  And that will head off all kinds of problems for you in the future.  This is what Shay means by "It is so easy to ruin a youngster".  If you don't set him up right at this age mentally and socially, you're setting him and yourself up for some very hard times ahead.

You've been given some good advice on this thread.  Please listen to it.  We know what we're on about.  We get a bit bolshy ourselves sometimes, but everyone wants what is best for the horse and you.


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## Sparemare (28 October 2017)

Good post Lady Sam


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## Charleyrobinson (28 October 2017)

Thank you for your reply 
We have got a new horse today and also the lady from my yard has put her gelding in the paddock too


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## JDH01 (28 October 2017)

Lady Sam great response thanks


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## LadySam (28 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			Thank you for your reply 
We have got a new horse today and also the lady from my yard has put her gelding in the paddock too
		
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That's good.  That will help.  I think an ideal setup would be to invite two more horses to this party, but what you've done is good.


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## Leo Walker (29 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			Thank you for your reply 
We have got a new horse today and also the lady from my yard has put her gelding in the paddock too
		
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in less than 24 hours? That was quick and even I am starting to be a bit suspicious now...


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## FestiveFuzz (29 October 2017)

Charleyrobinson said:



			Thank you for your reply 
We have got a new horse today and also the lady from my yard has put her gelding in the paddock too
		
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So let me get this straight (I'll ignore the obvious speed of which you've acquired a supposedly suitable second horse)...instead of quarantining the new one and gradually introducing all three to each other they've just been chucked in a paddock together?


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## fburton (29 October 2017)

FestiveFuzz said:



			So let me get this straight (I'll ignore the obvious speed of which you've acquired a supposedly suitable second horse)...instead of quarantining the new one and gradually introducing all three to each other they've just been chucked in a paddock together?
		
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That is an extremely common scenario and, in most cases, things works out fine. Obviously there is a risk associated with everything we do with horses, and that goes up when situations change. It's important to keep an eye out for problems.

Even if OP is trolling, it should be possible to offer constructive advice that would be useful to other people in OP's supposed position who are reading this thread.


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## SpringArising (29 October 2017)

FestiveFuzz said:



			So let me get this straight (I'll ignore the obvious speed of which you've acquired a supposedly suitable second horse)...instead of quarantining the new one and gradually introducing all three to each other they've just been chucked in a paddock together?
		
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Pretty common and nothing wrong with that. Two ways to skin a cat.


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## FestiveFuzz (29 October 2017)

Fburton I'd like to think for the most part I've been constructive. I would advise anyone to quarantine a new arrival having witnessed the damage strangles can do and value my horses too much to just chuck them out without gradually introducing them to a new herd. On our yard it just wouldn't happen any other way.


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## Tiddlypom (29 October 2017)

SpringArising said:



			Pretty common and nothing wrong with that. Two ways to skin a cat.
		
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Pretty common? Maybe. Good practice? No.


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## ycbm (29 October 2017)

FestiveFuzz said:



			So let me get this straight (I'll ignore the obvious speed of which you've acquired a supposedly suitable second horse)...instead of quarantining the new one and gradually introducing all three to each other they've just been chucked in a paddock together?
		
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I don't know anyone who keeps their horses at home or in a small rented place who quarantines. In forty years I've never had a horse in quarantine, livery or at home.


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## MotherOfChickens (29 October 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Pretty common? Maybe. Good practice? No.
		
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exactly-its alright until its not, then you have months of shut down, extra vets bills for everyone and possibly long term damage to horses. I wish more yards quarantined, strangles has been rumbling around the central belt for the last few years now purely because yards do not.

I keep mine at home, I cannot quarantine but at the rate I introduce new horses I have to suck it up, its my risk and mine alone. I do basic things and monitor temps for the first few weeks.


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## ester (29 October 2017)

I wish everyone on hho could buy a new horse quite so quickly.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (29 October 2017)

ester said:



			I wish everyone on hho could buy a new horse quite so quickly.
		
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Easy, go on local Facebook horse group, there are always a number of sorry equines free to good home, or 'must go by weekend'  and the like 
Never mind if it doesn't fit in within a day or so, you can always pass it on to another punter by advertising it on Facebook.....


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## FestiveFuzz (29 October 2017)

ycbm said:



			I don't know anyone who keeps their horses at home or in a small rented place who quarantines. In forty years I've never had a horse in quarantine, livery or at home.
		
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I can't speak for those that keep their horses at home or on rented yards as I've only ever been on livery yards and all new arrivals have been quarantined. Personally I think it's a needless risk to introduce to a herd without taking precautions, though if you keep at home I guess that risk is yours alone.


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## ycbm (29 October 2017)

I think unless you have a closed yard where no horse ever leaves and comes back again in a short time, that quarantine of a symptom free new horse coming from a symptom free previous yard is pretty pointless. I suspect far more infection is caused by symptom free carriers and horses going out to other places than new horses being brought into livery yards incubating infection.


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## ester (29 October 2017)

which is why strangles testing before horses are allowed to enter yards is becoming much more prevalent in some hot spot areas.

The YOs I know have mostly made risk assessments based on where the horse is coming from, if that is a small or private yard after long term ownership no special circumstances will be put in place, if it is coming off the boat in a bulk shipment from ireland .... a bit different.


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## alainax (29 October 2017)

Every yard I've been on has quarantined. One with blood tests, disinfect trays and wash station for staff who were moving by between zones. I was shocked to discover on here a few more baths ago that quarantine is but the norm!


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