# Which weed killer...?



## 4leggedfurries (12 July 2009)

My fields have rapidly been taken over by clover, thisles, docs, buttercups and were now even losing the battle against ragwort and we are fast running out of grass.  Whats the best weed killer to get rid of everything but grass and with the shortest time before i can put the horses back on it to graze.  Thankies


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## Donkeymad (12 July 2009)

You are fighting a losing battle at this time of years as plants need to be sprayed young. there must be something that will help though. I used Grazon 90 earlier in the year, but it won't touch docks or thistles now, and doubtfully buttercups either.


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## LoobyLoosome (12 July 2009)

I'd go for some 2,4D MCPA (Headland Polo or similar) which is relatively clover-safe.

BTW - clover is a good thing!  It makes it's own nitrogen, and is good for general soil fertility.

I'd find a local agricultural sprayer and ask them what they'd recommend - they'll have (or should have!) all the necessary 'tickets' to carry out spraying safely.  Once you've chosen the product you check the label for info about how long you need to remove stock.

NB - if you're spraying ragwort then you'll need to leave it long enough for this to rot down.  The best time to spray is earlier in the spring as soon as the weeds have started growing - you're leaving it a bit late now I think.

The problem is that if there are lots of weeds, then removing these gets rid of weeds, not necessarily giving you any more grass! - plus the poaching action of the horses will be continually giving advantage to weed species and not the grass.  So you may need a more 'aggresive' approach including some seed and fertiliser, but again here timing is critical.  

If you need to use the field quickly then the usual agricultural practices are probably not suitable, but i'd harrow it, spray about a fortnight later, and once you've got die-off spread some grass seed and give it another couple of weeks before starting to graze.

Let me know if you want any more info.  Alot depends on the exact chemical you're going to use.


Let me know if you want some more info.


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## 4leggedfurries (12 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]

BTW - clover is a good thing!  It makes it's own nitrogen, and is good for general soil fertility.


[/ QUOTE ]

I dont have anything against clover, but horses arnt eating it and we've pretty much lost a whole field to clover i'd say about 85% and its still spreading, and my other 2 fields are about 50% covered in it too. So tbh i'd rather it went as i dont want to move my horses.


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## LoobyLoosome (12 July 2009)

white clover or red clover?

Generally speaking the clover will help, and if you take it out you'll need to be putting on alot more fertiliser.  High proportion of clover in sward could be supplying anything from 100 - 350 kg N per hectare and will help the grass grow. I'm surprised they're not eating it actually.

The question is whether the grass is being lost to clover, or whether you're losing grass and the clover is just making up the gap (weather seems to have favoured it this year, maybe giving it an advantage over buttercups).  

Depending on the age and make-up of the sward i'd suggest it's the latter (most productive grasses respond very well to nitrogen, so as the clover increases, soil nitrogen increases, and you get even more grass growth).   If you can get sheep to come in and graze out the clover heavily before spreading some grass seed, then the grass will get a good start while the clover is recovering, and then the clover's nitrogen production in the 'understorey' of the sward will keep the grass growing. 

If, as I suspect, it's the latter, then you'll need to redress the grass population issue, or you'll just end up spraying constantly to inhibit the more competitive plants (buttercups etc) from taking over the bare spaces, without actually increasing the amount of grass.


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## 4leggedfurries (12 July 2009)

The clover has just taken over and its white i think, well the flowers are white. We didnt have any last year, (just buttercups) and we were up to our waist in grass, so we had it cut twice (to help) and grazed well but for some reason we had one little patch which has now take over and no the horses just wont go near it. There are just these massive clumps all over the fields and little bare patches where the horses have eaten round.


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## LoobyLoosome (12 July 2009)

Another good general point is about soil sampling...

You are aiming to provide optimal conditions for grass growth, to give it the best chance of out-competing weeds, as well as providing nutrients for its own growth.

If the field is deficient in phosphate or potassium then you're back to fighting a losing battle with reducing grass population.

Another pertinant point is about not over-grazing area, and letting parts of the field rest.  The grass's aim in life is grow tall and put up a seed head.  When your horse take a munch and chops off a bit of the plant the plant then has to keep growing if it's to get big enough to put up a seed head.  

When the horse munches the plant off to within 2 - 3 inches of the ground it leaves the plant with just enough green leaf to capture light to make the sugar's it needs for growth, and it comes away again very quickly.  Continually grazing very close to the ground leaves the plant with very little of this green foliage, making it's growth much slower - and thus providing a time-lag which the buttercups and clover are taking advantage of.


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## LoobyLoosome (12 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
The clover has just taken over and its white i think, well the flowers are white. We didnt have any last year, (just buttercups) and we were up to our waist in grass, so we had it cut twice (to help) and grazed well but for some reason we had one little patch which has now take over and no the horses just wont go near it. There are just these massive clumps all over the fields and little bare patches where the horses have eaten round. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like white clover.  Have you a local farmer with sheep or cattle (preferably sheep) who could come in and tidy it up?


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## 4leggedfurries (12 July 2009)

Over grazing isnt a problem, i'm very fortunate to have 14 acres so they are regularly rotated round the fields so that they arent poached, churned up etc. Though the little ones are on a bare(ish) paddock as theyre little fatties. I spose we can check the levels in the soil.  It was used for crops then left for 12/18 months before we had it. I shall have a word with dad tonight and get him to look into it.  Thanks


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## Donkeymad (12 July 2009)

Some clover is OK but a lot of clover is not. You should also never graze within a few weeks of re seeding or even over seeding.


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## Ashtree (12 July 2009)

There's an old country saying - Spray in May.  Spraying now with almost anything will not have much effect as the growing stage is wrong.  I always spray at the beginning of the season with grazon 90 and then use it for spot spraying later on but very liitle now will touch the harder weeds to shift - docks/thistle.  Remember with ragwort that horses genarally don't eat live ragwort but do when it is dead.  If you spray ragwort you MUST remove it before letting horses graze.


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