# Nullarbor



## Bossanova (17 May 2008)

Just heard from one 'in the know' that it was a broken neck 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Several others pulled up lame, including Lucinda's ride who has a suspected stifle injury


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## BBs (17 May 2008)

Very tragic


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## JM07 (17 May 2008)

how on earth did that happen??

i'd heard he slipped up????


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## Eira (17 May 2008)

RIP Nullarbor 
What a tragic loss


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## Hemirjtm (17 May 2008)

I almost went today, can't work out wether i'm glad or not about not going 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Thats a total shame, saw him at Badminton and thought what a fantastic horse (well they should be if theyr are going round Badminton 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 ) But he really caught my eye 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  I still can't believe he's gone 
	
	
		
		
	


	





RIP big man


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## Sprout (17 May 2008)

Tragic loss of a talented horse - cant quite believe it.


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## amabelscott (17 May 2008)

RIP Nullarbor, he was a fab boy...


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## teapot (17 May 2008)

So tragic


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## lifeslemons (17 May 2008)

Christ. Thats awful. He was going to be one of the worlds best


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## MissDeMeena (17 May 2008)

In that case, i hate to say it, but that was bad riding, i blame Clayton 
	
	
		
		
	


	





RIP


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## Gonetofrance (17 May 2008)

What a horrible thing to say......... I hope you never make an error that results in a fatality to your horse, and have to suffer remarks like you have just made.....





He could have broken his neck as he went down with a heart attack. It happens.


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## xspiralx (17 May 2008)

I didn't see it, so can't make a judgement, but I'm sure he will be absolutely devastated for what has happened. Not one of us can say we've never made a mistake, but most of us have been lucky enough that it hasn't ended in the death of a beloved horse.

RIP Nullabor, poor boy


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## lucretia (17 May 2008)

you are disgusting to say such a thing. remember to hide next time i see your barely good enough to get riund a two star person at an event. how dare you.


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## lucretia (17 May 2008)

and i am gutted about neville. we go way back. poor clayton.


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## MissDeMeena (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
He could have broken his neck as he went down with a heart attack. It happens. 

[/ QUOTE ]

My first thought was heart attack 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 and maybe it did have one, hence going wooden round the corner and C not being able to do anything, in which case i retract everything i've said, but in my view he still came round the corner too fast on the wrong leg unballanced..
I've never questioned how heart broken he will be or how much he loves the horse!! 
But IF it wasn't a heart attack, lets just call it a laps in judgment.. mistakes happen at fences, there wasn't a fence involved here.


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## lucretia (17 May 2008)

you sanctimonious little madam. the day you ride half as well as clayton on a bad day wil be the day you are entitled to comment.


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## elliebean (17 May 2008)

That may well be the case (I didn't see the fall so can't comment at all), but what is there to gain from 'blaming' anyone? I know everyone is entitled to their opinions, but sometimes it is not necessary to share them. This was a horrible accident which resulted in the loss of a lovely horse. My thoughts are with the people who have to deal with this heartbreak
x


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## gloster_image (17 May 2008)

Well said!!!  We all make mistakes and to pay for it with the life of your horse who he has a massive partnership with is tragic.
RIP for an amaaaazing horse just tragic


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## MissDeMeena (17 May 2008)

the day i do even a fraction of what he's done i'll be a very happy person!!
I don't doubt the way he rides!! just the way round that corner.. anyway, as has been said time and again on this forum, people are aloud an opinion, and i've voiced mine, all be it at a rather horrid time


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## Paddywhack (17 May 2008)

How dare ANYONE criticise Clayton ?? Who on here has ever been around an Internatonal 4* Event..I got a 2* eventer and i have seen Clayton go round all sorts of courses and he is a very careful rider,so shame on you who blames Clayton you should be ashamed of yourself ! Put yourself in his shoes ! One of his best horses are gone,you really got my blood to a boiling point..
RIP Handsome boy


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## lucretia (17 May 2008)

well said.


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## Bossanova (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
How dare ANYONE criticise Clayton ?? Who on here has ever been around an Internatonal 4* Event..I got a 2* eventer and i have seen Clayton go round all sorts of courses and he is a very careful rider,so shame on you who blames Clayton you should be ashamed of yourself ! Put yourself in his shoes ! One of his best horses are gone,you really got my blood to a boiling point..
RIP Handsome boy 

[/ QUOTE ]

People can criticize whoever they like. Free speech is still legal in this country.

You dont have to agree.......

For what its worth, I think we need to wait to hear the full story before coming to any conclusions. It's a tragic loss of a beautiful horse that a lot of people have put an awful lot of time, effort and emotion into, none more so than his rider.


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## madgirl (17 May 2008)

I don't think MDM is trying to criticise his way of riding altogether just his riding at one particular moment just like many said it was WFP's fault for tams run out at badders and it was PF's fault for putting chamrock in at a bad stride today at a corner but  these are just mistakes on the riders behalf at one moment but it doesn't mean we think they are bad riders or we think we can ride anywhere and nearly as well as them. We criticse these riders even though they are the worlds best like Clayton.

Didn't see the fall so no idea how he rode it but I dont think MDM was totally saying Clayton is a bad rider.

RIP Nullabor a very sad death of a truely wonderfull horse and poor team frediercks to lose one and have another come back lame


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## xspiralx (17 May 2008)

Actually she is entitled to comment whenever she likes. You don't have to be a 4* rider to have a valid opinion.

I didn't see it, and I'm certainly not going to blame Clayton for what, if it was his error, was a tragic mistake - but this forum is for airing views and it is not your place to tell anyone they don't have a right to an opinion.


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## MissDeMeena (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
That may well be the case (I didn't see the fall so can't comment at all), but what is there to gain from 'blaming' anyone? I know everyone is entitled to their opinions, but sometimes it is not necessary to share them. This was a horrible accident which resulted in the loss of a lovely horse. My thoughts are with the people who have to deal with this heartbreak
x 

[/ QUOTE ]

No there isn't anything to gain!! I wish i'd not posted and hope any of his connections doesn't read this, if they do i'm truely sorry for your loss.


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## Paddywhack (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How dare ANYONE criticise Clayton ?? Who on here has ever been around an Internatonal 4* Event..I got a 2* eventer and i have seen Clayton go round all sorts of courses and he is a very careful rider,so shame on you who blames Clayton you should be ashamed of yourself ! Put yourself in his shoes ! One of his best horses are gone,you really got my blood to a boiling point..
RIP Handsome boy 

[/ QUOTE ]

People can criticize whoever they like. Free speech is still legal in this country.

You dont have to agree.......

For what its worth, I think we need to wait to hear the full story before coming to any conclusions. It's a tragic loss of a beautiful horse that a lot of people have put an awful lot of time, effort and emotion into, none more so than his rider. 

[/ QUOTE ]
There is a difference between Free speech and to publicly blame an international professional eventer for the death of a horse and cant be compared since he is not here to defend himself


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## wizoz (17 May 2008)

HOLD ON, let's just all calm down here. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Yes, MDM is allowed an opinion and that is that SHE felt that Nullabor was unbalanced coming around a tight turn and resulted in his fall.

The rest of you think that Clayton couldn't possibly have made a mistake and MDM  A) isn't qualified to make an opinion B) hasn't ridden at 4* level so must be crap C) dared to say something that is possibly true???????

Don't jump on her just because she has voiced her opinion, it's not personally aimed at Clayton. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I am very sorry to all connected for their loss, they must be mortified. A sad day


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## JM07 (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How dare ANYONE criticise Clayton ?? Who on here has ever been around an Internatonal 4* Event..I got a 2* eventer and i have seen Clayton go round all sorts of courses and he is a very careful rider,so shame on you who blames Clayton you should be ashamed of yourself ! Put yourself in his shoes ! One of his best horses are gone,you really got my blood to a boiling point..
RIP Handsome boy 

[/ QUOTE ]

People can criticize whoever they like. Free speech is still legal in this country.

You dont have to agree.......

For what its worth, I think we need to wait to hear the full story before coming to any conclusions. It's a tragic loss of a beautiful horse that a lot of people have put an awful lot of time, effort and emotion into, none more so than his rider. 

[/ QUOTE ]

^^^
what she said..


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## elliebean (17 May 2008)

Just to add, my post wasnt meant to be having a go at you-I dont think your abilities and eventing experience have any bearing on your opinion. Its a really emotional subject and we all say stuff we dont mean


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## lucretia (17 May 2008)

and MDM wasnt there so how would she know particularly as it sounds to me exactly as if the hors had a heart attack or an aneurism.  saying bad riding and claytons fault is just disgusting, she is enttled to her opinion but my opinion of her is now down below worm level particularly as her performaces in the saddle are nothing to right home about.


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## dingle12 (17 May 2008)

Why do we have to blame anyone? ive not seen it and knowing clayton he will be a total mess ( plus everyone else) he has had him since he was four.
At the end of the day everyone can say what they want and some thinds probably were said at the wrong time. But it will not bring him back so there is no need to blame anyone.


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## lucretia (17 May 2008)

and as i have actually ridden and schooled that horse i can tell you that you would have to try pretty hard to gallop him flat out anywhere, he always was quite lazy and this will be bourne out if you check his record and look at time penalties through his career.


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## gloster_image (17 May 2008)

Tbh i think it was the way MDM phrased it - attacking a top four star rider and accusing him of being directly responsible for the death of his horse - not smart thing to do on an open public forum especially when this has only JUST happened and both clayton and nullabor are hugely popular in the eventing circuit.  
No one and i repeat NOONE should ever have to have a horse die beneath them - what a tragic thing to happen - he must be truly truly devastated and having interviewed clayton on two different occasions now i find him not only hugely knowledgable but down to earth and lovely.  
Once again RIP Nullabor - that horse was one of a kind x


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## sunflower (17 May 2008)

Were you there? If not then are you any more qualified to say it was an aneurism or a heart attack then MdM is to say it was rider error? As Boss said, none of us know what really happened yet, and probably won't for a few days but people are bound to speculate, that's human nature.


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## dingle12 (17 May 2008)

QR to Drsunflower
No offence to Boss but i think lucretia is a better source for the news.


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## Bossanova (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
QR to Drsunflower
No offence to Boss but i think lucretia is a better source for the news. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooooh ouchie!!

Seeing as you dont know me from Adam I'm intrigued by your statement  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Fair enough, you go with what Lucretia comes up with. Any word from the top yet L?


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## pinktiger (17 May 2008)

dont agree with MDM comment but am not going to slate her for it, as she is more than entitled to it, just coz she hasnt riden a 4 star, doesnt mean she cant have an opinion!!!

to all involved with the awful tragic loss of a superb horse my thoughts are with you at this truely very sad time!!

RIP N


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## MistletoeMegan (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
QR to Drsunflower
No offence to Boss but i think lucretia is a better source for the news. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Boss's source is about as accurate as they get.

However, this whole thing is not about who knows who, who has ridden at what level blah blah blah, it is about the very sad loss of a talented horse. Poor boy


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## wizoz (17 May 2008)

Sorry, but why SHOULDN'T she have phrased it the way she should? I don't understand the mentality of some people on here 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 So you knew the horse Lu, does that mean that MDM can't comment??? It's all a load of BULL if you ask me. And all that cr@p about "not saying it on an open forum" really pi55e5 me off, get a grip.

MDM, for what it's worth, you wrote what YOU perceived happened, DO NOT apologise, sh1t happens.


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## dingle12 (17 May 2008)

Boss no i dont know you from adam i know you have connections with the fredericks 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 however L has worked for them and knows them very well that is why i made that statement. It dont matter wot she comes up with he has died nothing can be done to bring him back it could be a broken neck, heart attack, bad riding who knows.


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## pootler (17 May 2008)

How absolutely tragic, my thoughts go out to the Fredericks.  I keep hoping that the latest horrific piece of news will be the last but something terrible seems to be happening every weekend at the moment.


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## dingle12 (17 May 2008)

MDM it dont matter wot level you ride at you can have your own opinion.


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## gloster_image (17 May 2008)

But why the hell do people feel it is at all suitable to say anything like MDM said??????  Clayton is one of the worlds top riders and he has lost his top mount - that is tragic and it is nobody in the worlds right including my own to speculate on whether it was or was not his fault!!!
God some people dont have shock me on here.


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## xspiralx (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QR to Drsunflower
No offence to Boss but i think lucretia is a better source for the news. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Boss's source is about as accurate as they get.

However, this whole thing is not about who knows who, who has ridden at what level blah blah blah, it is about the very sad loss of a talented horse. Poor boy 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Quite.


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## SpottedCat (17 May 2008)

So it was ok for people to slate AT but not CF? How odd. 

I didn't see it and have no opinion on what caused it, but if I had the energy I'd search through all those posts about AT and see how many of you who slated AT are now saying that no-one who hasn't ridden at that level should criticise/have an opinion had an opinion about AT. Hmmm.

As for Clayton, he is a thoroughly nice bloke who I have had the pleasure of briefly chatting to a couple of times and my heart goes out to him as that horse was simply fantastic.


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## xspiralx (17 May 2008)

Just playing devil's advocate, you were one of the loudest to condemn Amy Tryon for her behaviour with Le Samurai.

I'm not saying the two incidents are similar, however it could be argued that both horses were killed through the mistakes of a rider, and as I recall you were happy to speculate and criticise her in that situation.


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## gloster_image (17 May 2008)

Oh god get a grip how can u even compare the two???  I won't even start THAT debate.  How stupid.


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## sunflower (17 May 2008)

Agreed. I wish someone would post a list of riders we are and aren't allowed to criticise, or a list of users on here who are entitled to an opinion. It would save a lot of time


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## Bossanova (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Just playing devil's advocate, you were one of the loudest to condemn Amy Tryon for her behaviour with Le Samurai.

I'm not saying the two incidents are similar, however it could be argued that both horses were killed through the mistakes of a rider, and as I recall you were happy to speculate and criticise her in that situation. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I was about to say the same thing


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## MistletoeMegan (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Just playing devil's advocate, you were one of the loudest to condemn Amy Tryon for her behaviour with Le Samurai.

I'm not saying the two incidents are similar, however it could be argued that both horses were killed through the mistakes of a rider, and as I recall you were happy to speculate on that situation. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly!

Anyone is entitled not only to have an opinion but also to voice it.

The argument that someone is not entitled to criticise another because they have not ridden at the other persons level is ridiculous - if you have eyes and a brain, you can make a judgement!

There should of course be an acknowledgment during that judgement making that the opinion is not based on experience, but not an apology for that fact.

MdM can say what she likes, she watched the incident and felt that in her opinion the rider was to blame. She wasn't stating fact, she was stating her opinion and no-one on this forum should think that they have the right to tell others that they are not allowed to have an opinion.


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## SpottedCat (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. I wish someone would post a list of riders we are and aren't allowed to criticise, or a list of users on here who are entitled to an opinion. It would save a lot of time  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't it just? So it is ok to condemn OT for riding too fast or pushing his horses too hard and saying slightly ill-thought through things to journalists, it is not ok to comment about this incident. It is ok to condemn AT. I have no right to an opinion at all because I don't ride very well or at any great level. I think that is a good start.....


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## Tinkerbee (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
But why the hell do people feel it is at all suitable to say anything like MDM said??????  Clayton is one of the worlds top riders and he has lost his top mount - that is tragic and it is nobody in the worlds right including my own to speculate on whether it was or was not his fault!!!
God some people dont have shock me on here. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Substitute CF for Amy T....


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## Skhosu (17 May 2008)

Agreed DrS.
*eats popcorn*


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## MistletoeMegan (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. I wish someone would post a list of riders we are and aren't allowed to criticise, or a list of users on here who are entitled to an opinion. It would save a lot of time  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

General rule of thumb, if you have worked for them/hacked past their yard/once met them at a comp./are their second cousin's Uncle Bob's foster daughter's au pair then the rider cannot be criticised. Anyone else is fair game


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## spaniel (17 May 2008)

AT was my first thought too.  Im sorry but this smacks of the same argument we had last year with the US contingent.

Lets wait and see the footage/hear the responses of the officials before we all wade in to defend or decry.

MDM might not have put her post tactfully but that doesnt make it wrong.


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## lucretia (17 May 2008)

for those tat are interested, i havent eard from team fred tonight and am not expecting to, they must be devastated. and sunflower, i wasnt there as you point out but i know the horse and i know clayton and he knew before he started the cross that he wouldnt be the fastest so even if in the lead he wouldnt have been ragging it. Also Ben is his number one choice for Hong Kong so he didnt need to win. MDM balntantly said it was bad riding and therefore claytons fault. well that is indefensible if you haent seen the incident. it may well turn out to be true and no dubt will tirn up on you tube so we can all see, but the loking unbalanced and leg twitching statements are all classic signs of some sort of heart failure. Comparing this to AT is rubbish. This debate started because of MDMsunfortunate phrasing for which she should apologise IMO even if that is her opinion (to which she is indeed entitled) because none of us knows yet and when the connections have suffered such a loss it was a horrid thing to say without any evidence. 
  Boss has very good sources, as i do but thanks anyway Dingle!


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## gloster_image (17 May 2008)

Ok people how the hell are they comparable?  Go on tell me.

AT - Kicked on a lame horse that broke into trot twice and was clearly hopping about on 3legs, over the final jump AND pushed for a finish and then walked off without a care for the horse - horse was humanely euthanised.

CF - Possibly rode around a corner too fast OR horse had a heartattack - horse fell and broke its neck.

Hmm yeh i can SO see the similarities in that.  God sake.  Get a grip.  

feel free to air your views.  Seriously go ahead.  God I'm starting to realise why i left this place.  Full of up themselves santimonious *insert word here*.  

And btw look back - i have never once even commented on whether MDM is a good rider or not - that is damn well irrelevent.  What I am saying is it is not in good taste to criticise clayton during these tragic circumstances when nobody even damn well knows what happens AND when his connections are on here and clearly upset.  

does anybody have any kind of sense on here?  Questionable.  I'm leaving this hoax of a discussion now.

RIP nullabor.


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## MistletoeMegan (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Ok people how the hell are they comparable?  Go on tell me.

AT - Kicked on a lame horse that broke into trot twice and was clearly hopping about on 3legs, over the final jump AND pushed for a finish and then walked off without a care for the horse - horse was humanely euthanised.

CF - Possibly rode around a corner too fast OR horse had a heartattack - horse fell and broke its neck.

Hmm yeh i can SO see the similarities in that.  God sake.  Get a grip.  

feel free to air your views.  Seriously go ahead.  God I'm starting to realise why i left this place.  Full of up themselves santimonious *insert word here*.  

And btw look back - i have never once even commented on whether MDM is a good rider or not - that is damn well irrelevent.  What I am saying is it is not in good taste to criticise clayton during these tragic circumstances when nobody even damn well knows what happens AND when his connections are on here and clearly upset.  

does anybody have any kind of sense on here?  Questionable.  I'm leaving this hoax of a discussion now.

RIP nullabor. 

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole point is,  _in your opinion_ Amy Tyron killed her horse, and in MdM's opinion Clayton's riding contributed/caused Nullarbor's death. 

Your opinion is not fact, it is something you believe; others would have argued that it was in bad taste to criticse AT.


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## Bossanova (17 May 2008)

Gloster_Image, you are missing the point. 

People arent comparing the incidents- theyre comparing your reaction to the two incidents (and a few other people's reactions)

With AT it was fine for everyone- be they a somebody or a nobody, to criticise and express a very strong opinion. Now it's someone different and a bit closer to home, people arent allowed to express a similarly strong opinion?


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## kerilli (17 May 2008)

Umm, one huge difference surely is that in AT's case it went on for about half a minute or more, of deliberate riding on, on an obviously lame (well, to anyone watching anyway!) horse - not a split second's error.
i didn't see Clayton's fall, but i've had the same thing happen to me, went too fast round a corner on the flat, horse slipped (on loose sandy ground in my case) and fell over... luckily she just slid along on her side. i still kick myself to this day for what happened, it was a moment's bad judgement, a misjudgement of pace.
i can't see the parallel personally between this case and AT's.
i do think that everyone's entitled to an opinion though, and slating someone for voicing their opinion is unfair imho.


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## lucretia (17 May 2008)

And for those of you that think i wont critise people i know, clearly you havent been on this forum that long! If clayton rode like a muppet i will be the first to say so, and all these people making snide comments about who knows who and what should also be ashamed. I am signing off now cos there are comments on here tonight that make me sick.


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## SpottedCat (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Umm, one huge difference surely is that in AT's case it went on for about half a minute or more, of deliberate riding on, on an obviously lame (well, to anyone watching anyway!) horse - not a split second's error.
i didn't see Clayton's fall, but i've had the same thing happen to me, went too fast round a corner on the flat, horse slipped (on loose sandy ground in my case) and fell over... luckily she just slid along on her side. i still kick myself to this day for what happened, it was a moment's bad judgement, a misjudgement of pace.
i can't see the parallel personally between this case and AT's.
i do think that everyone's entitled to an opinion though, and slating someone for voicing their opinion is unfair imho. 

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not about the two incidents being comparable - it's about how people reacted to them. With AT it was fine for every man and his dog to make negative comments, in this case it would seem unless you have ridden at 4* your opinion is not valid.


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## BBs (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
AT was my first thought too.  Im sorry but this smacks of the same argument we had last year with the US contingent.

Lets wait and see the footage/hear the responses of the officials before we all wade in to defend or decry.

MDM might not have put her post tactfully but that doesnt make it wrong. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite agree Spans.

All this bickering doesnt take away the fact a talented horses life has been lost! 

Its all very unnecessary IMO, everyone is entitled to their opinion, you dont even have to ride!!!!!


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## wizoz (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]

does anybody have any kind of sense on here?  Questionable.  I'm leaving this hoax of a discussion now.


[/ QUOTE ]

**Waves** BYE BYE


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## xspiralx (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Ok people how the hell are they comparable?  Go on tell me.

AT - Kicked on a lame horse that broke into trot twice and was clearly hopping about on 3legs, over the final jump AND pushed for a finish and then walked off without a care for the horse - horse was humanely euthanised.

CF - Possibly rode around a corner too fast OR horse had a heartattack - horse fell and broke its neck.

Hmm yeh i can SO see the similarities in that.  God sake.  Get a grip.  

feel free to air your views.  Seriously go ahead.  God I'm starting to realise why i left this place.  Full of up themselves santimonious *insert word here*.  

And btw look back - i have never once even commented on whether MDM is a good rider or not - that is damn well irrelevent.  What I am saying is it is not in good taste to criticise clayton during these tragic circumstances when nobody even damn well knows what happens AND when his connections are on here and clearly upset.  

does anybody have any kind of sense on here?  Questionable.  I'm leaving this hoax of a discussion now.

RIP nullabor. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Kayleigh, in all your ranting about how sanctimonious people are, you're failing to see that you are probably the worst for that in the entire thread.

I'll tell you exactly why AT is comparable to this incident.

Le Samurai's death may have been caused by AT's failure to pull up a tired horse, and when he got injured, her failure to respond to his injury and pull him up immediately.

Nullabor's death _may_ have been caused by Clayton failing to balance him properly for a corner, get him on the correct lead etc, causing him to slip and break his neck.

Both incidents can arguably be called rider errors, resulting in the death of a horse. The difference is that AT's "mistake" was far less understandable than Clayton's.

However you can't have one rule for one and another for another - either its okay to criticise top riders for errors of judgement, or its not, and you're being very naive if you can't how you're contradicting yourself in your reaction to these two events.


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## CastleMouse (17 May 2008)

OMG, what a huge loss for Clayton


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## CastleMouse (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
In that case, i hate to say it, but that was bad riding, i blame Clayton 
	
	
		
		
	


	





RIP 

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't comment on that as I was away at the yard all day and didn't get a chance to watch much of the action...


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## lifeslemons (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
does anybody have any kind of sense on here?  Questionable.  

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people have a lot more than you, having read your replies over the last year. I'm still waiting for you to "drag Amy off a horse" when she comes to this country 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Sorry, couldnt resist saying that. 

I'm with Lucretia on this on, although I do think MDM did just misword what she orginally meant to suggest.


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## Mavis (17 May 2008)

Did you hear that from F?  How is Rex?

RIP Nullarbor.  How dreadful


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## Jiffy (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
No there isn't anything to gain!! I wish i'd not posted and hope any of his connections doesn't read this, if they do i'm truely sorry for your loss. 

[/ QUOTE ]

When I read your first reply to this post I thought "OMG - What an opionated little ^*&amp;£$%^" but I think you might be feeling a bit remorseful now.  I hope you remember to think before you write anything like that again.

I acknowledge you're sorry.


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## Bossanova (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Did you hear that from F?  How is Rex?

RIP Nullarbor.  How dreadful  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Suspected stifle injury, she felt him not right behind so pulled up straight away. Hopefully it's just bruised, he did such a good dressage too


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## LadyJendali (17 May 2008)

I really do wonder why I bother to come on here.
A horse has paid the ultimate price and you lot are behaving like school kids!!!!
Its bad enough that the eventing world has lost such a rising star without laying blame.

I do wish some of you would grow up.
RIP Beautiful boy........


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## kerilli (17 May 2008)

umm, if MDM saw the fall, then she's entitled to comment.
just because someone is a brilliant rider, as Clayton is, doesn't mean he can't make a mistake.
not having seen the fall, i won't comment.
absolutely tragic loss of a supremely talented horse. my thoughts are with the Fredericks. 
r.i.p Nullabor.


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## icestationzebra (17 May 2008)

Another very sad day for eventing... An awesome horse and a great partnership.
Poor Nullabor


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## dianchi (17 May 2008)

As ever the biggest point is missed-
THIS WAS A TALENTED HORSE

NULLABOR RIP You deserve it.


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## Skhosu (17 May 2008)

Indeed, poor Nullabor, RIP


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## The Virgin Dubble (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
The whole point is,  _in your opinion_ Amy Tyron killed her horse, and in MdM's opinion Clayton's riding contributed/caused Nullarbor's death. 

Your opinion is not fact, it is something you believe; others would have argued that it was in bad taste to criticse AT. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree.

After extensive investigation, AT got banned from competition (albeit for a ridiculousy short period) for the role she played in Le Samurai's death. 

That is FACT, not opinion.


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## lifeslemons (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The whole point is,  _in your opinion_ Amy Tyron killed her horse, and in MdM's opinion Clayton's riding contributed/caused Nullarbor's death. 

Your opinion is not fact, it is something you believe; others would have argued that it was in bad taste to criticse AT. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree.

After extensive investigation, AT got banned from competition (albeit for a ridiculousy short period) for the role she played in Le Samurai's death. 

That is FACT, not opinion. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Still not quite "FACT." One of the reasons her punishment was reduced was several people didn't believe she was blame-worthy.

It's rather like saying that a murder in jail is guilty... not always true! Only the opinion of 11 lay people on a jury put them there, and plenty miscarriages of justice can happen.


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## TGM (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
As ever the biggest point is missed-
THIS WAS A TALENTED HORSE

[/ QUOTE ] What a strange thing to say - surely the biggest point is that a horse has tragically lost it's life, regardless of how talented it was. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





RIP Nullabor.


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## Puppy (17 May 2008)

What a terrible loss 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I absolutely fell in love with that horse at Burghley. I loved his big floppy ears (reminded me of my Beanie) and his dressage test there was just simply beautiful to watch. What a waste. RIP Nullarbor. Poor beautiful boy 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 H x


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## teapot (17 May 2008)

Think we can speculate all we like (I didn't see it) but whatever the cause of Nullabor's death was - CF will probably always blame himself for what happened and will never forget it. That's probably the nemesis of any rider. 

I just hope LF's horse comes right quickly and they get home with him.


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## ihatework (17 May 2008)

Really can't be bothered with this forum sometimes.

The tragic loss of a truely stunning horse seems to result in a massive ego trip of who's who in the poxy eventing world.

My guess is that none of you are as great as you seem to think you are


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## teapot (17 May 2008)

Just found this:

http://www.uptowneventing.co.uk/happy-times-for-sam-i421.html


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## Eira (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 Devasting *freak fall * of Clayton Fredericks Nullabor who slipped on the flat inbetween fences and broke his neck  

[/ QUOTE ]  . 
Thats what it is , was , and always will be . A tragic way to end a horses life as someone has said I'm sure CF will already be blaming himself and thinking about the 'what ifs'

For some reason this song has me in tears atm thinking about it and I don't know why  
	
	
		
		
	


	








 Think it may be the lyrics 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOJJtYERF6k


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## henryhorn (17 May 2008)

I've read throught this thread and feel MDM is probably guilty of doing something all of us has done at some point, quickly typed a post without really reading it through. We've all done that so perhaps let her explain?
Even if she hasn't, she is still entitled to her opinion, and we should be able to disagree with her without slagging off anyone's talent or abilities.
From what I have read no-one knows why the horse died yet so perhaps we should all just wait before commenting further.
I feel so sorry for the Fredericks, that looked a super horse and a real personality, Losing a horse of that ability will be a huge blow for any rider no matter how famous.
Funnily enough do you know who I feel the most sorry for? Nullabor's groom, who will have looked after him on a daily basis and tonight will have an empty stable.
Let's not let this descend into a slanging match please, how about not posting anything else on the subject until we know the facts..


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## Eira (17 May 2008)

Well said HH , agree with you totally .


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## Brontie (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Actually she is entitled to comment whenever she likes. You don't have to be a 4* rider to have a valid opinion.

I didn't see it, and I'm certainly not going to blame Clayton for what, if it was his error, was a tragic mistake - but this forum is for airing views and it is not your place to tell anyone they don't have a right to an opinion. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that! Well said


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## bandit (17 May 2008)

HH

As always a measured reply.  I agree to your sentiments about the Fredericks, but also that the grooms will be more at a loss.  

We can not speculate on what happened until it's known for sure.  

I truley can't believe such an amazing horse has gone - I had no idea it was competing this w/end so it's a total shock.  

Bx


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## trefilan (17 May 2008)

MDM is allowed to air her oppinion and if she saw the fall then she can have a useful input.
Even if you have had 20 years competing at the top level everybody makes mistakes. Its human nature. 
Unfortunately this was a high profile and talented horse so lots of people will have their different oppinions and all these oppinions will be aired with the people who have the guts to say it.
RIP Nullarbor x


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## Foxford (17 May 2008)

Very, very sad news. He was such a beautiful horse.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Perhaps save the post mortem until the facts come out.


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## zigzag (17 May 2008)

RIP Nullarbor xxx


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## EventingMad (17 May 2008)

Everybody has they own mind and i personally can't comment of the incident as i didn't see it and would rather wait for more news. I think we shouldn't be so hung on whose fault it was and arguing with each other.Just think about the connections of this horse that obviously are going to be distraught mourning such a great horse who had so much more to come. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




RIP Nullarbor


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## Ottinmeg (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
  but my opinion of her is now down below worm level particularly as her performaces in the saddle are nothing to right home about. 

[/ QUOTE ]

what the hell has that got to do with anything ?? thats twice now you have resorted to slating MDM's riding which is   below worm level also, so makes you no better then you percieve MDM to be. its crazy how unless you have ridden at the level the pro's ride at then you cant have an opinion. i better keep my gob shut when my kid makes a mistake in BSJA as i havnt (and never will be good enough ) to ride at that level... the fact i can see the mistake/problem from the ground seems to have sod all to do with it !!


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## LEC (17 May 2008)

Truly tragic - having suffered a freak accident myself that resulted in the loss of a horse I can sympathise. I cannot imagine anything worse than driving home with one less horse. 

I have chatted to a friend who has competed at Samaur and she said the soil is very sandy with grass on top so does become quite unstable.


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## KatB (17 May 2008)

Good grief, talk about bandwagon-jump onto!!! MDM was just saying IF a certain situation had been the case then she WOULD SAY that was bad riding. She did not say "that is bad riding I blame Clayton".  Two very different things IMHO, and something that has been blown out of all proportion by one member flying off the handle at the comment and others joining the band wagon. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Also, how the HELL does slagging someone personal performance help in any way what so ever?!! Think there are a few people that need to grow up and wake up to reality, everyone is entitled to an opinion whether you like it or not. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





For god sake, just think of what has actually happened here, a FREAK accident has happened, regardless of whether or not something wasnt quite right running upto it, and an animal has died. 

RIP Nullabor, and huge sympathies to his connections.


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## kerilli (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
  but my opinion of her is now down below worm level particularly as her performaces in the saddle are nothing to right home about. 

[/ QUOTE ]

what the hell has that got to do with anything ?? thats twice now you have resorted to slating MDM's riding which is below worm level also, so makes you no better then you percieve MDM to be. its crazy how unless you have ridden at the level the pro's ride at then you cant have an opinion.   

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree with this.  
even if someone does not agree with what MDM wrote (and i think she's one of the very few who saw the horse fall on the live feed, so is more entitled to comment than most), there is no need for such a totally nasty comment about her, imho.


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## Mbronze (17 May 2008)

Just to put my two cents in...

I may not be a 4* event rider, i don't have or have ever ridden a 4* horse. 

But i thnk MDM made a valid comment, it  *may*  have been the riders fault. We don't know yet? But for Lucretia to jump on her and slag MDM's riding and skills off is not on, from what i can gather MDM is a very competent rider.

Lets not attack each other personally, theres absolutely no need.


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## _Libby_ (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Lets not attack each other personally, theres absolutely no need.   

[/ QUOTE ] 

agreed , no need whatsoever


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## kerilli (17 May 2008)

fwiw, i found this comment on another forum:
"I watched nullabor break his neck. So sad and so horrible to see. Wasn't even jump related (was on the wrong leg going around a sharp corner, horse stumbled and fell awkwardly) only jump 3 so fatigue wasn't an issue."

horses as experienced as that usually do flying changes totally automatically when jumping, i think. 
from reading that, i really do believe that it was a freak accident. perhaps the corner was sharper than he expected, or the sandy going shifted suddenly under the horse's feet (as happened to my mare when i had the same thing happen.)


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## DipseyDeb (17 May 2008)

And a list of who know what top rider and what top horse...just so we can be sure!!


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## brighteyes (17 May 2008)

Utterly, devastatingly, unbelievably tragic  
	
	
		
		
	


	





R.I.P Nullabor x


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## Mithras (17 May 2008)

One of the most questionable pieces of riding I saw from watching Badminton (on tv) was the rider who gave his horse two hefty smacks quite far from the approach to an open ditch.  No doubt the horse was a bit iffy about the ditch, because he prompty put in a stop, dropped his head and deposited the rider.  But at that level, surely if you have to go around whacking the horse to keep it going forwards, theres an awful lot of work you should be doing at home, including building up a relationship with your horse and being sure what approach works best.

Can anyone enlighten me as to who that particular rider was?


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## elliebean (17 May 2008)

Sadly and ironically, I believe that was CF on Nullabor.


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## teapot (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
One of the most questionable pieces of riding I saw from watching Badminton (on tv) was the rider who gave his horse two hefty smacks quite far from the approach to an open ditch.  No doubt the horse was a bit iffy about the ditch, because he prompty put in a stop, dropped his head and deposited the rider.  But at that level, surely if you have to go around whacking the horse to keep it going forwards, theres an awful lot of work you should be doing at home, including building up a relationship with your horse and being sure what approach works best.

Can anyone enlighten me as to who that particular rider was? 

[/ QUOTE ]

It was CF. 

I seem to remember that MK also gave one of her rides a smack with the whip coming up to that ditch. Not that uncommon for riders coming up to that part of the course to do so


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## kerilli (17 May 2008)

i hate to tell you, but it was Clayton Fredericks, on the horse we're all talking about, i believe.
according to a comment on here by Lucretia, the horse had "pulled off a shoe and half his foot" at the preceding fence, and that's why it happened. 
to me, it looked as if he knew the horse was going to be a bit ditchy, and was trying to get it totally in front of the leg (and the whip)... unfortunately didn't work though.


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## LEC (17 May 2008)

Through a friend have heard that he over jumped into pond and the reminders to be in front of leg were to say keep going and do not dwell on that last fence.


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## xspiralx (17 May 2008)

Well it can't have "pulled off half its foot" at the previous fence because that was only two weeks ago and if it had done something bad like that he would hardly have been running at Saumur would he? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I didn't think it was bad riding particularly, he clearly knew the horse wasn't that keen on ditches and/or felt it backing off a long way out and as kerilli said, was trying to get it infront of the leg - just didn't work, horse had obviously decided it wasn't going to do it.


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## jellybaby (17 May 2008)

If it pulled off half its foot at Badminton - how come it was at Saumur?

JB xx


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## Mithras (17 May 2008)

Thats actually what I thought but I didn't like to say in case I was wrong.  It just stuck in my mind, perhaps because I have a horse that you have to keep cheerful and reasured and she will jump anything for you.  If I smacked her she would definately refuse, she would gradually become more and more reluctant and behind the leg and not be with me any more.  And there must be quite a few horses like that.  Not ideal to have to go xc round courses that size with a horse that you can't keep going forward with your legs, makes for an unbalanced horse and perhaps that explains the fall on the flat?  Accidents will happen of course and certain factors that increase the risk slightly are often just enough to swing the balance.  What a shame.


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## kerilli (17 May 2008)

yes, but sometimes a well-timed smack will keep the horse thinking forwards, get its mind back on the job, keep it in front of the leg, and mean that it'll jump the next one fine and get over the blip at the previous fence, for example.
i can see why he did it, and have done the same myself on certain horses. i agree that there are certain horses that don't respond well to the whip though.


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## xspiralx (17 May 2008)

I'm not sure its fair to blame it on that.

I've ridden horses that need gentle encouragement, and I've ridden others that need to be told firmly to get on with it. Smacking a horse on an approach to one fence doesn't indicate that he can't keep the horse going without a whip, or that he's not balanced.


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## Mithras (17 May 2008)

Oh I know, and at that level, going round a huge course, you don't have time to be fiddling around (I imagine; I only do county level WH and BJSA).  But it didn't seem to work well at Badminton and I was just a bit surprised to see it.  Perhaps it was a sign of something else?  Who knows.


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## lifeslemons (17 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 But at that level, surely if you have to go around whacking the horse to keep it going forwards, theres an awful lot of work you should be doing at home, including building up a relationship with your horse and being sure what approach works best. 

[/ QUOTE ]

In principle you have a point, but we are talking about quite possibly one of the hardest fences in the world. I doubt there were many riders that didnt give their horse a bit of a reminder going into that fence!


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## Laafet (17 May 2008)

I didn't want to get involved in this thread but I remember the commentator at Badminton on BBC1 saying that he'd had problem with that fence or one like it before and wanted the horse to be sure to do it and then it stopped anyway. Nothing to do with what happened today. Just something I remembered.


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## moon_drop (17 May 2008)

Unbelievably tragic, have not seen the fall so can't comment! like HH After i heard about it I thought about how his groom must be feeling right now going back to an empty stable its along way home for all of them.
Such a sad loss for all that knew him and for Eventing 
	
	
		
		
	


	





R.I.P Nullabor


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## trefilan (17 May 2008)

At badminton clayton was only giving a reminder. Especially in that part of the course the horse needs full concentration and working with the rider. Sometimes horses become a bit laxy-daisy just like us.


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## Asimmons (17 May 2008)

Nullarbor's death is a tragedy..no question. But it will be even more of a tragedy if people cannot get beyond the emotional reaction and think about the implications for their own riding. If Clayton was a bit 'complacent' winging it round a corner, then let it be a lesson to us all to ride ALL the time and keep our horses balanced. Miss de Meena has come in for a lot of stick, but sentimentality won't get us anywhere and she has a valid point of view. We are the pilots and it's up to us to get horses to and from fences in such a way as to enable them to jump them safely. the in between bit is just as important and totally the jockey's responsibility. Of course, if it had a heart attack, that is another matter ...


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## Diane_Pepper (17 May 2008)

QR

How terrible 
	
	
		
		
	


	




RIP Nullabor.


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## granfan (18 May 2008)

Clayton has Poilou in the CIC ** in 6th place. Surely he will do show jumping with him tomorrow and not come home right away.

Also the student Alex Hua Tian finished the *** and will jump Magenta on Sunday. I cannot imagine the Fredericks leaving without him. He is doing so well.

It is probably a bad night all around with these Saumur eventers. Everyone there must feel badly for the Fredericks.

I am in Texas. Its only 7:00 pm here. I saw Nullabar fall early this morning and it has upset me all day. Thank goodness there were no injuries announced or deaths on track today in the American 3 Yr old race at the Preakness, follow-up race after the Kentucky Derby.


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## wizoz (18 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
One of the most questionable pieces of riding I saw from watching Badminton (on tv) was the rider who gave his horse two hefty smacks quite far from the approach to an open ditch.  No doubt the horse was a bit iffy about the ditch, because he prompty put in a stop, dropped his head and deposited the rider.  But at that level, surely if you have to go around whacking the horse to keep it going forwards, theres an awful lot of work you should be doing at home, including building up a relationship with your horse and being sure what approach works best.

Can anyone enlighten me as to who that particular rider was? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I HAVE to disagree about this, there are several reasons why horses get "reminders" on the neck AND behind the saddle. I have always been taught that if your horse has jumped a fence or a couple of fences "sticky" to give them a couple of smacks to sharpen them up. I remember coming out of the start box one year and climbing over the first fence of a novice track, so my horse got a couple of smacks, just like C did to N at Badminton, and after that he had woken up and got on with it.

C obviously felt that after the way N had jumped the Colt pond, he needed sharpening up as  there was a hefty ditch coming. It is also known his horse can be ditchy. And of course, they already have a partnership, he has ridden this horse right through from PN. Check out his results

http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/Events/Results.aspx?HorseId=50769&amp;section=000100010002

It IS allowed to smack the horse, it is NOT allowed to beat them.


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## gloster_image (18 May 2008)

Apricotfox - Having re read this thread just now i must say your reply is one that is the most sensible.  A way of looking at this whole tragedy that I bypassed and in future will most certainly adopt.  I got very angry at the "I blame Clayton" comment as he must be devastated and nobody knows the facts and everybody makes mistakes.  However you are so right - we should all learn from this and learn to always be on the ball when we are riding.  
Also the comments about "you can't comment unless you've ridden at that level" are most definately ridiculous I have said that at the beginning - but lifeslemons wasnt that exactly what you were implying to me earlier on in the thread?  Kettle...black.... (and yes i still would pull amy off her horse if i were to see her!!  how incredibly strange that you can remember my exact quote over a year after it was said AND when i have changed my username and account since?  Are you a stalker?  It would be quite flattering to have a stalker!).

I will finish with the sentiments i have finished every post with and what nobody could disagree with in this world....
RIP Nullarbor...a talented horse lost in a tragic circumstance.  My heart goes out to his groom, rider and connections.


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## lifeslemons (18 May 2008)

I think you have got me mixed up with someone else - I havent said anywhere in this post that you must be of a certain experience to comment. And I'm afraid you don't have a stalker, I have a good memory I remember that comment particularly well because  it was one of the most hilarous and ridiculous comments I've ever read

[ QUOTE ]
Well said!!!  We all make mistakes and to pay for it with the life of your horse who he has a massive partnership with is tragic.
RIP for an amaaaazing horse just tragic 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Some could argue that
-Amy made a mistake
-It was tragic that the horse lost its life
-Particularly after the partnership they had formed too.


BTY, Amy's over in this country in about a month. You're more than welcome to stay at mine, which is next door to where she will be based, and drag her off her horse ....


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## gloster_image (18 May 2008)

Why thank you i would take you up on that but i unfortunately will be busy working for someone who is a true horseman unlike miss tryon.


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## KatB (18 May 2008)

WFP's isnt that far from lifeslemons place


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## gloster_image (18 May 2008)

Dorset and gloucestershire (assuming lifeslemons location is correct)?  Then again you're speaking to the girl that aimed for exeter from hampshire and ended up in oxford 
	
	
		
		
	


	




You coming to brack today Kat?


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## KatB (18 May 2008)

Yep, is about hr and half to 2hours, plenty travellable!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Yep, at Brack this afto with ASBO child.


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## gloster_image (18 May 2008)

Lol!!!  Ah coolio i may well wander down and have a peek x


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## KatB (18 May 2008)

He is horrid at the moment so I am not expecting much tbh!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 But its an outing!!


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## gloster_image (18 May 2008)

And the food van does the best cheeseburgers ever...its worth going just for that


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## KatB (18 May 2008)

No caterers apparently!!


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## Mavis (18 May 2008)

I was told this morning that it was most likely a heart attack and he broke his neck on the way down.  Very sad.


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## gloster_image (18 May 2008)

no caterers????  Well thats it i wont be going then  
	
	
		
		
	


	









On a more seirous note - yes from the soudns of things it does sound like a heartattack but we'll have to wait and see, very sad indeed.


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## The Virgin Dubble (18 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The whole point is,  _in your opinion_ Amy Tyron killed her horse, and in MdM's opinion Clayton's riding contributed/caused Nullarbor's death. 

Your opinion is not fact, it is something you believe; others would have argued that it was in bad taste to criticse AT. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree.

After extensive investigation, AT got banned from competition (albeit for a ridiculousy short period) for the role she played in Le Samurai's death. 

That is FACT, not opinion. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Still not quite "FACT." One of the reasons her punishment was reduced was several people didn't believe she was blame-worthy.

It's rather like saying that a murder in jail is guilty... not always true! Only the opinion of 11 lay people on a jury put them there, and plenty miscarriages of justice can happen. 

[/ QUOTE ]

But you are missing my point.

Why are these comparisons being made?

AT's actions were videoed and witnessed - there is no comparison whatsoever with a murder case. 
And there is no comparison between AT and CF because there is no anecdotal or video evidence for people to base there opinions on. It's pure speculation atm.

There is a huge difference between giving an opinion based on what you have seen, and declaring someone 'guilty' based on speculation.

Some people need to get over themselves, stop pointing the finger, and remember that a horse has tragically lost it's life.

Trial by forum, without a shred of evidence.


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## Mavis (18 May 2008)

I should have made my post clearer.  I heard, this morning, from the owner of LF's ride, who is out there with them, that they felt that he suffered a heart attack.  Which is sufficient anecdotal evidence for me.

I would be ashamed if I were one of the people turning the death of a horse into a witch hunt.


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## hayley05 (18 May 2008)

I can't believe some of the simple minded idiots who write in this forum! I know Clayton, I knew Nullarbor (neville), I have watched Clayton working WITH his horses for endless hours, the partnership Clayton has with all of his horses is second to none, he is the greatest horseman around, and Nev was one of the most talented, genuine horses ever born. The horse sadly slipped, it was a freak accident, and when he fell at the angle he did, he broke his neck, it was an accident pure and simple, no rider error, no horse error, he just lost his footing. Clayton and the whole team are in pieces, you people don't help! If you knew Clayton you would know he would never put his horses at risk, they are his life, and barring Cinders and little Ellie, his whole world, so get a life and grow up, because those writing such horrible things obviously do not know the man, the familly, the yard or anything about them, you are just awful, sickening gossips! My love goes out to them all at such a terrible time.


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## The Virgin Dubble (18 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I should have made my post clearer.  I heard, this morning, from the owner of LF's ride, who is out there with them, that they felt that he suffered a heart attack.  Which is sufficient anecdotal evidence for me.

I would be ashamed if I were one of the people turning the death of a horse into a witch hunt. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Nooo Ethel, your info is very very interesting, given how this thread has developed. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I was referring to people who immediately starting pointing the finger, before the poor horse was even cold, and before any real info had come through.


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## Rachel_M (18 May 2008)

Last man standing.

I have to agree with you about how senseless some peoples replies have been to this situation, but I wouldn't tar this entire forum as idiots on the basis of this. 

We're all reeling at the volley of fatalities in the sport at the moment, especially when the sport is in the limelight for being dangerous, and riders are being put in the spot light for their riding- As I truly believe they should.

In this case, however, I couldn't say it is anything other than a gut wrenching fluke of a horrendous accident. One, I am sure, that Clayton will have scarred in his memory for a long time.


RIP Nullarbor.


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## hollibobs (18 May 2008)

Here here - well said lastmanstanding.

RIP Nullabor, what a terrible tragedy for all involved, my heart goes out to them.


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## hayley05 (18 May 2008)

I am not tarring the whole of the forum, as i said some of the simple minded idiots!


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## gloster_image (18 May 2008)

Well said lastmanstanding.


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## missshell (18 May 2008)

QR

How tragic. RIP Nullarbor. My thoughts go out to the Fredricks and his connections xxx


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## Mithras (18 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I HAVE to disagree about this, there are several reasons why horses get "reminders" on the neck AND behind the saddle. I have always been taught that if your horse has jumped a fence or a couple of fences "sticky" to give them a couple of smacks to sharpen them up. I remember coming out of the start box one year and climbing over the first fence of a novice track, so my horse got a couple of smacks, just like C did to N at Badminton, and after that he had woken up and got on with it.

C obviously felt that after the way N had jumped the Colt pond, he needed sharpening up as  there was a hefty ditch coming. It is also known his horse can be ditchy. And of course, they already have a partnership, he has ridden this horse right through from PN. Check out his results


[/ QUOTE ]

I know, but it obviously didn't work.  It didn't help the horse concentrate or sharpen him up, he did quite a dirty stop at the ditch and deposited his rider.  And they were two hefty smacks.  More reassuring encouragement might have been more effective.  The horse may have thought he was being punished for trying hard at the last jump.  Whatever, it certainly didn't work.  Whats wrong with pushing the horse on with your legs and your seat anyway?  Or giving a smaller tap if you must use the stick, rather than a punishment like tap?  And I hate two smacks anyway.  The message has already got through with one - whats the need for another one?

Maybe there was something wrong with that horse then and he wasn't giving CF the same feeling he was used to and thats why he did the two smacks.  Maybe thats why he got in the situation where he fell tragically at Saumar.  I guess only a post mortem will tell.  I know CF's reputation and I was honestly surprised at the way he rode at Badminton. 

I did think though that if a horse has a heart attack it can take quite a long time to die, like Lucinda Prior Palmer's horse in the prize giving at Badminton years ago.


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## gloster_image (18 May 2008)

Sorry to sound condesending but i think clayton knows nullabor better than yourself - he would know how to ride it!  When he smacked him at badders he obviously felt he needed to


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## becca77 (18 May 2008)

I think there is a lot of emotion over these posts so people have tended to over-react, perhaps unnecessarily.

Those who say that Clayton wasn't attached to Neville, or for that matter any of his horses- you couldn't be more wrong. Having worked for the Freddos for a year I have seen first hand just how highly they regard their horses- not just as tools for winning, in fact completely the opposite.  Clayton has has Neville since he was young, fresh from the Irish sales, and has put so much work into him, that for people to say that he doesn't care is just so wrong.

As for "blaming" people, it sounds from descriptions of the fall that OK, maybe the approach wasn't perfect, but how often is it that one is perfect 100% of the time? I'd challenge anyone here to ride as well as Clayton.  If it was in fact a freak accident that was down to chance, then people should not be so insensitive as to to distribute blame so flippantly at such an emotional time.

RIP Neville, he was amazing- a misunderstood personality but ferociously talented and lovely to ride. And if they're reading this, my love to Clayton, Cinda and Ellie. xxx


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## elliebean (18 May 2008)

I agree.

Similarly, how is a horse to differentiate between a reassuring tap and any other sort? And surely, as it is incorrect to do so, he would never have been smacked as a punishment, only in a way to wake the horse up and ensure that it is concentrating


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## becca77 (18 May 2008)

Also, I forgot to say, if Clayton felt the need to give Neville a reminder at Badminton, who are we to judge him? He knows the horse inside out and obviously thought it was the best thing to do at the time.  Nev's feet always had a tendency to break, so I don't think the incident at Badminton can be related to anything that happened at Saumur as clever shoeing worked wonders for him in the past and probably sorted him out for Saumur!


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## gloster_image (18 May 2008)

Eventinglove - you actually put that perfectly.  Here here.


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## darksided (18 May 2008)

This is really very tragic news, RIP Nullarbor


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## Seahorse (18 May 2008)

RIP Nullarbor


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## benji12 (18 May 2008)

RIP Nullarbor


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## Eccles (18 May 2008)

This is so sad. RIP Nullarbor and thoughts with all those who knew him.   
	
	
		
		
	


	





I can't believe some of the posts on here, as someone else said, trial by forum.  Ridiculous.


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## Fantasy_World (18 May 2008)

QR having trolled through all the pages on this thread to be honest I have been more upset about some of the comments made than the news of the horse dying.
Let me put that into perspective. It does not mean that I am not saddened by the death of this horse because the death of any horse in an untimely manner upsets me no matter how 'good' or well known it was. I simply mean that some of the comments made have been in very poor taste in my honest opinion. 
I can understand that we are all entitled to free speech but as Dubs? already pointed out there were individuals debating who was to blame for the horse's death before even rigamortis had set in. Come on have a heart for gawd's sake. I didn't see the incident and nor do I know any of the Frederick's personally however that does not mean that I don't have the etiquette for selective timing on what I do say and what I choose not too. 
The comparison between the incident of Clayton's ride on Nullarbor and the incident last year involving Amy Tyron is farcical.  I saw the video of the incident that day and I did concur that I could not understand how a top level rider failed to recognise that their horse was running on 3 legs.
If Clayton did make a mistake ( which we don't know as yet) aboard Nullarbor then don't you think he would be feeling guilty enough as it is if this error did lead to his mount's death without people slagging him off on a public forum like this. Please remember this section can be viewed by all, members and non members alike. 
I think in hindsight some people should have refrained from posting accusatory comments until such a time as a post mortem and subsequent review of the incident was conducted in order to determine how this horse tragically lost its life.
At this time the only words I can say is how very sorry I feel for all those connected with the horse and especially as someone rightly pointed out his groom. Those people who care for the horses day in day out live and breathe them and to be honest even though I feel sorry for the riders and owners my sympathy is far more for those that will feel the loss of not seeing that 'particular' face every day.
RIP Nullabor x


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## xspiralx (18 May 2008)

In fairness, Clayton has not been slagged off. Aside from the initial comment by MDM, and a little later debate about the fence at Badminton, nobody was really criticising his riding or blaming him for the death of the horse.

The debate has been mostly centred around who is entitled to give an opinion and in what circumstance, rather than whether CF was to blame or not - which is why it is relevant to Amy Tryon, not because Clayton behaved in any similar way to her.


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## piebaldsparkle (19 May 2008)

QR - Cos I don't have the time to trawl through all the comments. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





RIP Nullabor, and huge sympathies to his connections for their tragic loss. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





For what it's worth (probably already been said), but most horses at this level (infact even a novice level), are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves and sticking in a flying change to correct their lead.


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## TURBOBERT (19 May 2008)

Why does there have to be blame apportioned to anyone?.  Accidents happen.!  We are all human and we all make mistakes.  Indeed horses make mistakes too they are not clockwork.

Clayton F must feel absolutely dreadful.  I am sure he will be blaming himself even if he was in no way to blame.  He will need to move on - and so must we all ....... and give him and Lucinda our support and simpathy.

Lecture over - sorry!


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## H-J (19 May 2008)

RIP handsome boy xxx


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## LouLouC (19 May 2008)

Oh my god
i can't believe it 
	
	
		
		
	


	




he was such a lovely horse 
	
	
		
		
	


	




RIP

xx


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## pinktiger (19 May 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 When he smacked him at badders he obviously felt he needed to 

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto,  he possibly needed switching on to the next 'serious question'(u cant blag your way rnd badminton) and c wanted his undivided attention so they could work as a team and tackle this particular question united,, good grief the man knows  what hes doing and no one cares more for his horses than iam sure he does!!!


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## hellsdarkrose (19 May 2008)

I found the news about Nullabor's death so saddening I am actually crying.

All people on here seem to be doing is arguing about how he died and who is right and that sickens me.

Can we not just at this juncture show compassion and sadness without accusing people left right and centre? Can't we just leave things alone until we have hard fact?

In my experience speculation never helped anyone.


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## welshchick (20 May 2008)

Oh my god, I was not aware of Nullabor's death until I saw this thread today as I just got home from New York where I stayed for a week. Very sad news 
	
	
		
		
	


	





RIP Nullabor xxx


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