# Managing a competition horse with flat thin soles



## star (10 April 2013)

Please see my blog entry here for xrays and report from the vet today.
http://competitiondiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/visit-to-liphook-10-04-13.html

Basic story: 14yr old eventer been lame last 2.5weeks left fore.  Have always struggled to get him to grow any foot.  He had terribly collapsed heels/long toes when I got him.  Xrays show flat pedal bone, thin soles and broken back hoof-pastern axis.  Nerve blocks confirmed pain coming from his hoof - lots of bruising coming out of his heel.

Wondering what people's experiences are with pads/remedial shoeing?  I'm prepared for the onslought of people suggesting he goes barefoot.  Am not anti barefoot as have one horse completely barefoot but have no intention of taking this one's shoes off at this point so would only like to hear stories of managing this kind of problem with shoes at this stage please.

Thanks.


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## Sarah_Jane (10 April 2013)

All I can say is I keep my horses in a year belonging to my local remedial farrier and it is amazing with modern materials and different type of shoeing the results they can get. We have had issues with Sarnie over the years which has been supported by special shoes and equipak (a gel filler rather than a traditional pad)

Have a chat with the best farrier you can find and see what they say it will make a huge difference, try and look for one with the AWCF as these have passed exams in remedial work as well as have a more detailed understanding of anatomy of the foot etc.


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## Goldenstar (10 April 2013)

My TB had thin soles collapsed heels the walls where cracking away the farrier had less and less wall to nail into he becoming lame after shoeing and did not like walking down stoney tracks.
To get the BF thing out of the way I removed my horses shoes for a year and did the BF rehab thing with advice from a trimmer HHO a book and a increasingly amazed vet as the horse confounded her expectations.
I understand why you don't wish to do this so my advice would be to try the BF type diet I am convinced that since I started this the quality of all my horses feet has improved .
I put my TB onto farriers formula about six months in and I wish I had done it sooner his horn growth is now quick and thicker ( I think that's the best way to express what I see).
He worked lightly through this year he was shod a fortnight ago as he is ready to start completing again .
There's lots of threads on here about the diet so have a search .
On remedial shoeing my advice would go to the best farrier you can find even if that means driving the horse there every six weeks .
I would avoid pads if you can they are a short term quick fix but do make things worse in the end IMO .
It you leave near a beach salt water is great for feet and I do think Keratex helps the soles a bit .
Good luck I hope you find a way of managing the issue.


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## MileyMouse (10 April 2013)

Hi my boy had a similar problem with very flat feet and just not growing ! 

Last year he injured his collateral ligament and had remedial shoeing. He firstly had some leverage reduction shoes with pads (he has pads as its very stoney where we are and he needs the cushioning as his feet are so flat) and equi pack underneath, I also started feeding him micronised linseed. A year later he is still shod similarly but is sound, he has alot of foot growing and is gradually starting to get some concavity back


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## bgb (10 April 2013)

Not experienced with the remedial shoeing side etc. but horse had awful flat + crumbly feet and we put him on farriers formula for 6 months. (Cheapest on VioVet) Helped to grow good quality hoof quickly which has been managed with correct shoeing. He is also fed pure working which has low sugar/starch levels with brewers yeast + biotin etc already added. 

When his feet were at their worst, it was always this time of year when they got really bad as extra rich grass.

Good luck,  it will be a process of trial and error which will be worth it when you can get back on your wonderful little horse.


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## be positive (10 April 2013)

Had a similar story last season with a now 15 year old event horse, he was barely 1/10 lame on a circle but xrays were worse than the clinical signs and very similar to your horses. We went with the farrier who wanted to put on bar shoes, vet wanted wedges, he had 3 sets at 4 weekly intervals and as he was sound continued competing in them, his performance improved as did his movement and he was treated regularly with physio.
At the end of the season the shoes came off, he had a break then came back to work barefoot, recent xrays were not much different unfortunately but his soles have thickened and heels have started to become less underrun, he is now back in bar shoes and xrays are being done on Friday to check that the angles are getting better, we have changed vets mid way through treatment as not happy with previous vet, he had not really helped, the xrays were never shown to the farrier despite numerous requests plus other issues, this time I hope we will get better continuity and the angles will improve so he can go into normal shoes.

His overall way of going has become softer, the physio has seen vast improvement, he was always tight in his shoulders as if protecting himself.
Diet was also changed to lower starch/ sugar, much to his disgust and you can very clearly see this in the event lines that are now almost grown out.


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## emmab13 (10 April 2013)

I had a lovely French-bred ex pointer with horrendous feet. Thin soles, crap feet in general, would limp about for weeks if he lost a shoe, and was lame after shoeing 2/3 times. 

Excellent farrier shod with pads, permanent over-reach boots, and for 10whole weeks (two shoeings) we did walk/trot work in straight lines and no turnout to avoid pulling a shoe. Also supplemented with Biotin and had access to a hydrotherapy spa twice or three times a week. 

It did work, but then did live in fear of losing a shoe. Went XC with several layers of duct tape over the bulb of the heel and ends of the shoe. Plus overreach boots. 

Always put him in the spa the evening we got home from an event (spoilt much) in case of any bruising. High maintenance was an understatement, but I didn't fancy his chances barefoot, think he would have had to have been followed round with IV bute to even go out in the field!


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## KatB (10 April 2013)

I've had all sorts of feet problems with my mate, but basically the same as your horse. She is in bar shoes currently, but we have used equipak too. However, the best thing for heel growth and happy pony was magic cushion and pads. I think we will end up going back to this with her bar shoes to give the best combination of support and protection, as well as improving the sole and heels  good luck!


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## ester (10 April 2013)

I'm not sure I can help but wanted to say thanks for putting the x-rays up they are certainly interesting and the pedal are definitely flat- and I think that goes with flat + thin soles. We did go one step further as limited improvement and block /steroid inject coffin joint - also presumed aggrevated by the angles/extra strain. 

We shod in bar shoes for 3 cycles/brought back break over etc and feet improved significantly on the outside (more heel/shorter toe) but no real improvement in soundness. I decided not to go the pads route as he was 19 by then and I wasn't prepared to try and keep him going just because/he wasn't a comp horse anyway so took shoes off with plan to try rehab and if it didn't work retire (although I did question this at times). 

He is sound and in full work (just building up the jumping) and I suppose I mention him just to prove that it is possible to go from flat to concave+ thick soles and a better pedal bone angle.


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## HardySoul1 (11 April 2013)

Different diagnosis but my sister had great success with our master farrier using pads for her sidebone horse. They are air filled (like Nike air trainers with bubbles inside?!) and fit under normal shoe. They extend about 1-2 cm inside shoe but leave frog exposed as normal. Horse very happy in them.


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## star (11 April 2013)

ester said:



			I'm not sure I can help but wanted to say thanks for putting the x-rays up they are certainly interesting and the pedal are definitely flat- and I think that goes with flat + thin soles. We did go one step further as limited improvement and block /steroid inject coffin joint - also presumed aggrevated by the angles/extra strain. 

We shod in bar shoes for 3 cycles/brought back break over etc and feet improved significantly on the outside (more heel/shorter toe) but no real improvement in soundness. I decided not to go the pads route as he was 19 by then and I wasn't prepared to try and keep him going just because/he wasn't a comp horse anyway so took shoes off with plan to try rehab and if it didn't work retire (although I did question this at times). 

He is sound and in full work (just building up the jumping) and I suppose I mention him just to prove that it is possible to go from flat to concave+ thick soles and a better pedal bone angle.
		
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Vet also thinks we may have to block/inject coffin joints as he went lame right fore after blocking left fore so on top of acute bruising to left fore heel he thinks we also have chronic soreness of both coffin joints due to chronic strain from dodgy angles.


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## maccachic (11 April 2013)

You need to identify the cause and not treat the symptons.

Why don't feet the grow?

Why are the soles flat?

what caused the pedal bone damage?

I can probably guess but you don't want that answer.


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## MillionDollar (11 April 2013)

I went through all of this with my Welsh Cob, for a year in fact. He had extremely flat pedal bones and collapsed heels. We tried different types of egg bars as well as medicating his foot and coffin joints........numerous shoes and numerous medications. In the end I took him to RVC for an MRI as vet and I were convinced there was something else going on. There wasn't it was simply foot balance, collapsed heels, flat feet. They told me to put him back in to normal shoes, single toe clip (double toe clips can cause problems, which could have been where my problems started!!!), no long shoes either as they can actually stunt the growth even though the theory is to support, and I swapped to a farrier who did remedial work. 3-4 weeks later he was completely sound and has been for 14 months now. RVC also told me to only work him on a surface, so he never hacks out, and he also never goes on the horse walker.


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## cptrayes (11 April 2013)

MillionDollar said:



			RVC also told me to only work him on a surface, so he never hacks out, and he also never goes on the horse walker.
		
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Do the RVC call that sound?


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## MillionDollar (11 April 2013)

cptrayes said:



			Do the RVC call that sound?
		
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Jeez, you really are a piece of work. Yes, he is now 100% sound, on the hard and soft, the reason he is now sound is due to the change of management as well as his shoeing. In fact most people would never have noticed he was unsound before as he was 1/10 lame, and only when lunged on the hard. It was only because I could feel it and he would go very heavy in the hand.

Like the RVC would tell you working him only a surface means there is a lot less pressure on his pedal bone than working on a field or road. Surfaces move, roads don't. No walker, again also means no working on a hard circle, which puts a lot of strain on the foot. He's working Adv Med and winning at Elementary and will come out at Medium soon (BD).


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## KatB (11 April 2013)

MD, I'm really sorry but the way you phrased it does sound like he is only up to working on a surface, which to me (and OP whose horse is an eventer) isn't sound either. A lot of "lame" horses with foot problems are sound on perfect surfaces with shoes on, but aren't sound for any level of normal work, which to me includes working outside the menage.


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## Leg_end (11 April 2013)

If you want to keep shoes on then I'd be looking at feeding a decent supplement (pro balance, pro hoof or something similar) to get the foot growing and TBH I'd be having a serious chat with the farrier as to why he hasn't changed his shoeing to fix the angles and get on top of the changes before those changes lamed your horse. 

I'd get a recommendation from your vet for a good remedial farrier and work with them and I'd think about the possibility of removing shoes over the winter to give his feet a chance to recover. Barefoot full time isn't for everyone but there's a reason we used to give horses a break from shoes after the comp season.

Edited to add - MD I thought exactly the same as CPT,KB & A2. A horse that can only work on a surface is still compromised in some way as it would be lame if you worked it outside those parameters. Glad it's a compromise that works for you but, for me, it wouldn't be good enough.


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## Angua2 (11 April 2013)

cptrayes said:



			Do the RVC call that sound?
		
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MillionDollar said:



			Jeez, you really are a piece of work.
		
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A little uncalled for MD, as to be fair when I read your reply that was the thoughts going though my mind.  I am glad it worked out for you.


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## pearcider (11 April 2013)

Come on everyone dont argue lets just suggest things that worked!

star:

as you know Ive had/ got horses with variuos problem with there feet. My advice would be you know your horse and what works for him. Chat to your vet and farrier...maybe get them dowm at the same time to chat about the way you can all move forward.

What works with some horses does not work with others.

We had one horse with V flat soles (Leo) we tried all sorts of super shoes on him and it turned out he like just simple pads and natural balsnce best.

Where as my adv mare ran best in normal shoes and sylicon pads on just for events

The othe horse (most current one) has done best in natural balance (although it was a while before she go used to them) and she has pads in in the summer. We have found that turning her out for 8 weeks in the winter also really helps.

With all 3 horses they are/were shod no more than 4 week apart so the fronts never get long. I am luck as my brother is a farrier and is very in to all the high tech stuff that you can use. But he also agrees go with what suites ther horse.

Bee has biotin (not a fancy brand) and her feet have never looked better.

With all horses we are very routine about there work loads etc and I also find this helps.

You know me so if you get stuck and would like to chat to me or my brother you can


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## ester (11 April 2013)

I'd have been really sad if I'd been told F could only work on a surface, partly because we don't actually have one! (and I didn't do a circle for a long time either!). I thought he might end up just doing light hacking (instead of proper hacking ) and that would have been ok with me but surface only work he would have been retired. I am more careful with regards to what he does on certain surfaces as in the past he has been worked pretty hard whatever the ground was like as weight was more important. 

Star given his age the vet did put suspected DJD down in coffin joint of lame foot (due to nerve blocks) but the angles were the same in both feet and no signs of arthritis on x-ray. Does your lad move straight? F doesn't and vet was half expecting to find sidebones but nope! It was only watching slow mo vids that I realised quite how laterally he was landing and having watched them I would be really surprised if he didn't have some collateral ligament issues going on at that point either. I suspect his feet and movement had been like that for a long time but that something just pushed it over the edge.


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## Tonks (11 April 2013)

I had this problem with a TB mare I had. I have several suggestions:

1. Have you tried 'EquiPak'? 

http://www.blfarriersupplies.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=89

It is a gel (blue/Grey packaging) that is adminstered by your farrier and is applied before the shoe goes on. It then 'sits' in the shoe and acts like a shock absorber or padding that protects and supports a thin sole. I suppose it also helps with any kind of pedal bone rotation or problem there as the foot is somewhat 'protected'. It has to be really looked after though, as it does have a tendancy to fall out - it is expensive! But, it may help to distribute the forces through the foot more evenly.

2. Have a read of this article - it's about biomechanics, shoeing and problems. Although it does talk about barefoot, it is pertinent to your situation and you may be able to glean some helpful information.

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/31...r&utm_medium=lameness&utm_campaign=04-03-2013

Good luck.


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## MegaBeast (11 April 2013)

My mare (TBxID but looked full TB) had "typical" TB feet which improved hugely when I really started to manage her feet.  The horn quality was poor and they were very flat with low heels (the only criticism on her vetting as it happens).

I used to put eucalyptus oil on her soles and half way up the walls (to about 1cm above the nail holes) then Kevin Bacon liquid dressing on top of that over the whole hoof capsule.  If her soles started to get soft (ie could scrape white bits when picking her feet out) then I'd put Pro Feet Rock Hard on the sole for a couple of days.  And I'd always use the Life Data Hoof Disinfectant after each shoeing.  It was the eucalyptus oil that gave us the break through - it's cheapest to buy off eBay, I used to get in 1L bottles for about £20 and that would last for months.

Whilst her feet never gave her soundness issues they weren't the best when I had her and I could never persuade her to eat any kind of supplement but the above regime really improved the hoof quality and growth rate, she only lost two shoes in the four years I owned her! 

I was given a tip the other day which came from a lecturing farrier at Hereford - buy udder cream, slap it thickly on the coronary band and put supersize rubber over reach boots on the top.  The boots will massage the cream in and this will encourage growth.


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## cptrayes (11 April 2013)

Star I have struggled with formulating an answer for you because as a barefooter I would of course take off his shoes. However, I think from what you say that you want to event the horse this summer and you won't be able to do that if you do, of course. I understand that passion, I used to have it too.

So I would echo everyone who says to get the horse onto the same diet as you would if it was going barefoot, including turning out overnight and not during the day, feeding a "barefoot formulated" mineral supplement with yeast in, avoiding alfalfa, adding energy with oil not carbs. 

Then your only options are the advice of a seriously good remedial farrier, and a choice of pads.

Those won't do much in the short term (and possibly not the long term) to put right the angles which are causing stresses inside the feet.  I feel obliged to say that in your position I would be extremely worried about eventing him until those angles are corrected. By this I mean corrected internally, not by the addition of wedges, whether those are wedges of shoes or wedges of hoof wall crafted by a farrier.

The ddft/collateral ligament/impar ligament strains which often result from the poor angles have a very poor prognosis for recovery by conventional treatment and could end his competition career or even his life.

Please let me stress that I understand completely the drive to get out there and event. But if this is  a horse you want to have in competition next year and the year after, then from what you have described of his feet, the path that you are choosing carries a fair few risks.

It is of course possible that his feet are not as bad as the impression that I have formed of them from what you have written and that it will be a simple matter to keep him sound in the right shoes and pads.


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## cptrayes (11 April 2013)

I have taken a close look at your xrays and as far as I can see the mediolateral balance, which your vets described as good, is out by maybe a couple of degrees on each front foot, with the right fore being noticeably the worse of the two, and the higher side being the medial, inside aspect.


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## glamourpuss (11 April 2013)

MillionDollar it's interesting you've had problems with double toe clipped shoes. They seem to have been the thing that have caused the issues with one of mine  mind you it was also a terrible farrier putting the shoes on.
Even though this horse is shod I have thought about trying a 'barefoot diet' on him to help his feet. Problem is he's also a bit 'ulcer ish' which I control feeding alfalfa


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## Goldenstar (11 April 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			MillionDollar it's interesting you've had problems with double toe clipped shoes. They seem to have been the thing that have caused the issues with one of mine  mind you it was also a terrible farrier putting the shoes on.
Even though this horse is shod I have thought about trying a 'barefoot diet' on him to help his feet. Problem is he's also a bit 'ulcer ish' which I control feeding alfalfa 

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All but one of my have been  BF horses are perfectly ok with being fed alfalfa and I was not even sure it was alfalfa with the fourth just eliminated it as it was easy to do so.
so I would just make all the other changes if your using the alfalfa as a ulcer management management tool.
The grazing at night one really makes a difference from what I have seen here.
One of my six months on six months off horses has just finished his six months shod this time in front shoes with quarter clips , they have been for him a big sucess his finished the period with really good looking feet, all shoes are only as good as the person who puts them on.


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## vikkiandmonica (11 April 2013)

Wings had thin soles so for about a year he had pads on the were filled with a cushioning gel. I can't remember what they were called but they had a frog support that looked a bit like a Christmas tree. They came off after just less than a year and he's had no problems since and has gone barefoot without any fuss.


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## TPO (11 April 2013)

Doubt I'll have anything to say that you'd be interested in but I just had a skim of your blog post and a couple of things jumped out.

Re ok to shoe RF but too painful to shoe, even with pads, LF. So I'm assuming (risky I know) that you've no choice but to have him "barefoot"/unshod for at least 14days? 

If he is sound once weaned off bute then why do you need to remedially shoe? I appreciate you may wish to stud for eventing so shoes are required but if he's sound why does he need remedial shoeing? Once you start bringing wedges and heart/egg bars into the equation it's a different kettle of fish from just shoeing correctly (ie balanced) with stud holes. 

If he was sound before and farrier was doing a good, balanced job etc, then comes sound without shoes after bute how will be not go lame again when shod the same?


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## ihatework (11 April 2013)

Only thing I would add, is while there is a free cushings test voucher avilable (which there is) it might be worth running that test.

I had (and still have retired) a horse that showed similar foot issues. At the time I went down pretty much the route you are proposing and managed it for a short while before eventually admitting defeat and retiring the horse.

Fastforward a couple of years and I had a sneaky suspicion on the cushings thing.
Ran a test - sky high result of 340 (on an early teens 7/8th TB, so not an obvious candidate) - started on prascend and an immediate improvement seen on footiness on hard ground .... I suspect this horse has been very mildly sub-laminitic (hence more footy) for a few years ...


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## star (11 April 2013)

TPO - not entirely sure I understand all your questions but basically although he appeared sound prior to this incident with his left fore when they nerve blocked his left fore yesterday he went lame on his right fore so his feet are clearly causing him discomfort. 

He is barefoot in front for the next couple of weeks but cant be turned out without padding on the soles of his feet. His soles are so thin he is not sound enough to walk around the fiekd without shoes on and the vet was worried about him bruising himself further. At the moment I've padded his soles with cotton wool and he's wearing hoof boots and is sound in these.

He is 14 this year. He missed almost all of last season due to a tendon tweak he sustained getting caught up in a fence in the field.  Wish I'd taken his shoes off then as we did months of walking as rehab but as far as I was aware there wasn't a problem. When I bought him he had collapsed heels and long toes and the farrier has worked hard to improve these. I think now when you look at his foot from the outside his angles dont look too bad but clearly the xrays show a different story. 

Like I said before I'm not averse to barefoot - my other one hunts barefoot and rarely needs attention from a farrier - he has never been shod and has super feet. This one is an eventer though - I want to be able to use studs if needed so need shoes on him therefore want to try and manage this problem with shoes if possible.  I appreciate that's not always possible though and if he has to go through some kind of barefoot rehab then that's what I'll do. 

He lives out 24/7 which I really need him to carry on doing due to time constraints with odd working hours and also it helps to manage him as he has a mild dust allergy. Feed wise he needs quite a bit of energy giving food when he's eventing but if there's a way to do that that's better for his feet then I'm happy to listen to ideas.


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## Scarlett (11 April 2013)

I ended up in a similar place with Pinky and in the end chose to take her b/f as I wasn't convinced re remedial shoeing (my vet also believes the only way to heal feet is to remove shoes for a spell). I couldn't risk pads etc hiding the issue, her still being sore under it all and it affecting her in other ways - starting to refuse, compensating in her movement and hurting herself somewhere else etc etc. Somehow I also ended up with the other 2 b/f as well to try and improve their feet ( in hindsight my farrier wasn't doing as good a job as I thought!) and they are all still b/f now and they all now have super feet, no more thin soles or low heels and both boys are in work, P only not so as she is due to foal this month  . Their feet now also grow at an astonishing rate and I sometimes struggle to do enough roadwork to keep them trimmed having been told before that I couldnt do barefoot roadwork as they would wear to quickly.

Shoes or not diet is the most important part of hoof health, and feeding for energy is difficult with some horses. It can be done though, plain oats, ERS pellets, rice bran or oil will provide energy without compromising the feet. I underestimated how important a balanced vitamin and mineral supplement was too, there was a huge difference once I sorted that out, even though I was already feeding a 'good' diet. There are a few specific supps out there - our area is known to be low in copper, zinc and magnesium, so look for ones that have a higher level of those, it has helped mine massively.

He may be sore now but if you look at his diet and supps you could have him far more comfortable in a matter of days, then thats one less thing to worry about while you decide how to proceed. Good luck and gimme a shout if you need anything.


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## Angua2 (11 April 2013)

Since reading the post this morning, I have been wracking my brain trying to remember what we used on my old horse that had everything you described for yours.   I have finally remembered!!  We used these and bar shoes.

http://shop.impactgel.com/Horse-Trax_c74.htm


We did give the gel the farriers use a try but it lasted less than 2 weeks before it all fell out.


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## Fiona (11 April 2013)

Had similar problems with my TB as a 5yo, but solved (she is now 12) by longer shoes with quarter clips, shortened toe, and shoeing every 4 weeks.....

She still wouldn't be a horse you would take to a forest park and ride on the stony tracks, but one the road, in sand arena, and on grass she has maintained 100% soundness ever since.

Up until about 2 years ago we also fed a hoof supplement just so the farrier had some new growth to work with each time...

Flora


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## ester (11 April 2013)

ditto ihatework re the cushings test, we did test but was well negative, not tested for any other metabolics and he seems to tolerate grass reasonably well. 

I suppose the thing is if he is not sound/comfortable then at that period of time he isn't really a competition horse/needing studs.


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## star (11 April 2013)

Well no right now he's a field ornament but I'd like him to be a competition horse again so he will need studs in the future.  Doesn't seem much point getting him wonderful barefoot feet if then have to shoe him again. Would rather learn how to manage him with shoes unless that's not possible in which case he'll have to go through a period barefoot and then go back to shoes. He's even less sound without shoes at the moment though - lame in walk without boots on.


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## TwoStroke (11 April 2013)

It's difficult to tell from only the x-rays with no pics of the actual hooves, but it looks like the poor angle of p3 is caused primarily by a weak caudal hoof (the back part of the foot - frog, heels, digital cushion etc). The toe doesn't look especially long, and the wall connection doesn't look atrotious (though I appreciate it's hard to tell without seeing the actual hoof). You also mentioned that the back of the foot is very soft and tender.

So based on that I'd guess that building up the back of the foot (as well as the sole depth, obviously) is what you need to do - anything else is missing the point and not treating the crux of the issue. The question of how to go about it is something else . Obviously I'd say barefoot is the best option, but given your competition aims this year I'd be tempted to see what you can acchieve through packing the foot (equipak/magic cushion etc). Personally I've heard some negative things about NB shoes, so I'd want to avoid those and stick to normal shoes with the packing, if possible.

Once the season's over, however, I'd get cracking with rehabbing his feet over the winter, as imo anything you do now in shoes is just as a stop gap until you can grow a better hoof. Of course, if he doesn't come sound enough to compete this side of mid season, you may as well get a head start on next season and rehab sooner rather than later.

That's my take on it anyway. Good luck, whatever you decide to do!

ETA: There's nothing wrong with shoeing a healthy hoof imo. In fact I'd far rather get a hoof healthy then shoe it, than struggle along with unhealthy hooves in shoes until you reach the end of the road and have no option. I get the competition aims for this year, though, and if he can come sound for this season in shoes, then why not wait and rehab him over winter, then shoe a healthy foot in the spring?


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## Scarlett (11 April 2013)

star said:



			Well no right now he's a field ornament but I'd like him to be a competition horse again so he will need studs in the future.  Doesn't seem much point getting him wonderful barefoot feet if then have to shoe him again. Would rather learn how to manage him with shoes unless that's not possible in which case he'll have to go through a period barefoot and then go back to shoes. He's even less sound without shoes at the moment though - lame in walk without boots on.
		
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Of course theres a point getting him good b/f feet, because its giving him good feet! If you improve the feet you stand a better chance of sucess when you reshoe, and removing the shoes will speed up the time it takes to get him good feet. It's astonishing how quickly the feet improve out of shoes, I was a sceptic until I saw it myself. IMO though I'd be looking at different farriers/styles/options or you could end up back where you are....


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## ester (11 April 2013)

That's sort of what I was thinking, if he is lame he doesn't need studs right now sort of thing iyswim. TBH if F was younger I would have been tempted to put shoes back on once the problem was resolved and see if I could manage his feet in shoes, or 6 months on 6months off like goldenstar does with one.


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## Clava (11 April 2013)

Scarlett said:



			Of course theres a point getting him good b/f feet, because its giving him good feet! If you improve the feet you stand a better chance of sucess when you reshoe, and removing the shoes will speed up the time it takes to get him good feet. It's astonishing how quickly the feet improve out of shoes, I was a sceptic until I saw it myself. IMO though I'd be looking at different farriers/styles/options or you could end up back where you are....
		
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Yes that is the reason for going BF, grow some healthy hoof so you can shoe when you need to, it has always been good farriery practice to give horses a break from shoes.


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## glamourpuss (11 April 2013)

Twostroke my problems have occurred as a result of NB shoes. Although how much was farrier & how much was the shoes is hard to say


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## TableDancer (11 April 2013)

Haven't read all the replies but IME it really is at management issue once tou have identified the problem  I had a horse which went Advanced and 3* who had simply appalling feet - similar to what you are describing. I was lucky in having Haydn Price who is one of the best farriers in the world, you certainly need to equip yourself with a decent farrier before you start. Then our management programme was:
1. Shoeing every 4 weeks; lots of heel support and if/when the ground came up very hard bar shoes with pads and dental impression gel (the gel paks didn't exist then, I expect they do a better job)...
2. Limited roadwork - still did some for fitness but was very careful and only trotted very slowly uphill (still do this with all my horses)
3. Really good hoof supplement - don't know which the best is currently I'm sure others can advise...
4. Regular icing! Every time he was shod, every time he went XC and every time he went to the gallops he stood in iced water for half an hour afterwards, sometimes the next morning too. He got completely used to the routine - we used those flatter plastic feed buckets, took the handles off, put ice in water to a depth which just covered most of his hoof. He would stand tied like that for ages - tied to the side of a lorry at an event (we brought the ice in a cold box) or on the yard at home. Once I left him tied like that, went down to my arena and taught a lesson and came back 45 minutes later to find he was still there, hadn't moved!

He never ever missed an event throughout his career once we got the management right, and did I think seven CCI**s with me as well as Advanced etc. The deep irony was that, when I sold him as a mid-teenager as a schoolmaster lower level eventer he failed the vet on his feet - me pointing out his career with no gaps throught the last 7 seasons cut no ice ('scuse the pun). Bloomin' vets!!


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## Britestar (11 April 2013)

Have a look at PG shoes. We had great success with them on particular horse.


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## Garnet (11 April 2013)

TwoStroke said:



			Personally I've heard some negative things about NB shoes, so I'd want to avoid those and stick to normal shoes with the packing, if possible.
		
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Now, you see, I have nothing but praise for Natural Balance shoes!  My 28 year-old ex-eventer has been shod this way ever since he was diagnosed with exactly the same issues as Star's eventer when my horse was 12.  Used correctly, Natural Balance shoes *do* give the horse's feet every chance to re-build themselves.  The early breakover point of the shoes replicates the natural breakover point of the bare hoof, which reduces the strain on the ligaments within the hoof capsule.

My horse's low/collapsed heels and poor frog have improved beyond all recognition in NB shoes, and in the early days he had pads and packing under the NB shoes too, to give frog support.  My understanding is that once the breakover point is correctly aligned, frog support is the next most important thing to get right, to support the pedal bone within the hoof capsule.  This article explains it much better than I can . . .

http://www.equinefootprotection.co.uk/shoeing-with-regard-to-equine-welfare-article.html

Your farrier (or another farrier) is the key to improving the function of the hoof so that you can get back to competing this year - good luck!


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## MillionDollar (11 April 2013)

KatB said:



			MD, I'm really sorry but the way you phrased it does sound like he is only up to working on a surface, which to me (and OP whose horse is an eventer) isn't sound either. A lot of "lame" horses with foot problems are sound on perfect surfaces with shoes on, but aren't sound for any level of normal work, which to me includes working outside the menage.
		
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Well like my other post states he is sound, on the hard and the soft, on the straight and on a circle. He's also out 24/7 atm on hard ground and is fine. I haven't hacked him or worked him off a surface because quite frankly he doesn't need to, he's a dressage cob, so if he's sound at what he's doing whats the problem!?


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## KatB (11 April 2013)

Well exactly, so he's fine to do the job you want, which is the main thing  if he was an eventer so required to jump off less than perfect surfaces, then would he be sound? Just that's what CP was getting at I believe, so no need to be quite so defensive


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## Garnet (11 April 2013)

Deleted - duplicate post


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## star (11 April 2013)

I will take some photos of his feet tonight.  He has poor horn quality so the bottom part of the hoof is quite cracked and breaking up but I think in general they dont look absolutely terrible.  He has been sound up until now although it seems he has a degree of bilateral low key lameness which only showed up when we blocked out one foot and I'm not sure how long that has been going on for but he has competed on all surfaces in the last couple of years and has never felt sore after competing or being shod.  Looking at his xrays I'm surprised he hasn't had problems before given how thin his soles appear to be.  We hack out over some quite stony ground and he hunts regularly in winter with no problems.  Even though his feet were worse than they are now when he was vetted 2yrs ago it wasn't mentioned on the vetting form as a problem so vet clearly didn't think they were bad enough to cause him problems.

I'm going to become the most paranoid person in the world about ground now.  Last year he strained his tendon so I avoid deep ground like the plague. Now I'm going to start avoiding anything hard or stony.  He was turning out to be quite a good dressage horse - maybe that'll end up as a new career for him if his feet cant handle eventing.

I was really hoping to event him this year having missed last season but am prepared to take his shoes off afterwards (assuming we can get him sound now) so he can grow some more normal hoof.  I have just ordered Farriers Formula for him as can get it discounted through work and it seems to contain good levels of everything he might need.  He was on TopSpec so I'll stop that as otherwise I'll be doubling up on everything.  Where can I find more info on barefoot friendly feeds?  He would normally be on Bailey's Endurance Mix, A&P Power&Performance, Bailey's Outshine and TopSpec.  He's currently on Dengie Happy Tummy, A&P Fast Fibre and Bailey's fibre nuggets as he gets quite la la when he's out of work so have gone back to fibre based feed.  He would normally need feed to hot him up for competing without making him too sharp as he can be lethal out hacking.


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## I_A_P (11 April 2013)

My horse has the natural balance shoes now.  Unfortunately with my previous farrier his toes were getting very very long and had no heel support whatsoever.  This caused problems and his soles were terrible.  A year into having natural balance shoes and new farrier, his feet have a much better growth and shape and is now being done every 6 weeks, once they get to six weeks they still look good and the toe is being allowed to grow without having the toe clips on the front as he was shod previously.


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## star (11 April 2013)

Oh also while he has his front shoes off for next couple of weeks is there anything I can be doing to help them? I know it's only short term but anything is better than nothing.  He's currently padded up with layers of cotton wool/gamgee and Old Mac hoof boots and seems comfy in these.


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## cptrayes (11 April 2013)

MillionDollar said:



			RVC also told me to only work him on a surface, so he never hacks out, and he also never goes on the horse walker.
		
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My comment was not do you call him sound; it was do the RVC call a horse which they advise never to work anywhere but on a surface sound, because I'm sorry, but I don't.

The original poster wants to event her horse this year, and a horse that can never again work anywhere but on a surface will be absolutely no use to her at all, she may as well take it barefoot. And for that matter, so might you. If yours never works anywhere but on a surface, why on earth does he need shoes?


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## cptrayes (11 April 2013)

star said:



			Oh also while he has his front shoes off for next couple of weeks is there anything I can be doing to help them? I know it's only short term but anything is better than nothing.  He's currently padded up with layers of cotton wool/gamgee and Old Mac hoof boots and seems comfy in these.
		
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You are doing all the right things with the boots and pads, it's what we'd recommend right now if the shoes were staying off. Also, walk and walk and walk as much as he can stand, which will get his feet growing. Even in a couple of weeks you should see growth  - look for a strong angle change at the top and that will tell you how different the angle of his feet needs to be for him to be comfortable. 

For food advice, you can't beat a PM to Oberon. And then when you need more oomph for eventing, I recommend that you try getting it by adding oil (up to 500ml a day is fine) which should give you energy without upsetting his hind gut with carbs.

Good luck, I know how frustrating it is to miss that adrenaline fix!


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## star (11 April 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151618246365522.1073741827.591150521&type=1&l=f20b77f41e

photos of his feet taken tonight.  I dont think his RF looks too bad but I'm surprised at how bad his LF is.  Clearly the angle is all wrong, the heel is really collapsed and the toe too long but also from the front the whole foot looks longer than the RF.  I'm sure it looks worse than when the shoe came off 10days ago but I have to say I haven't paid them close attention, trusting that my farrier was doing his job and keeping his feet sorted (stupid in hindsight I realise)

Do you think it's best to leave both his front shoes off for the next couple of weeks and keep him in the pads and boots or is it ok to get the other front put back on - I'm worried about the boots rubbing him and adding to our problems.  He's walking around out in the field but only in a small paddock.  Should I be taking him walking in-hand?  Out of interest if I was to keep him barefoot what would be the next steps from here?


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## TPO (11 April 2013)

Sorry for the rubbish post that made no sense; I ran out of lunch hour and pressed post when my manager appeared. Can't remember my original point either <blush> but Scarlett has pretty much convered it!

Have a look at Equine Podiatry Supplies for pads you can duct tape on for turnout and have walking.

Not on Faceache so can't see pics but from your recent post it does sound like you need to feed for a healthier foot/ feet. Ditto the suggestion to contact Oberon.

Good luck!


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## star (11 April 2013)

Can you see these:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/103104611043548993656/albums/5865672676145436257


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## Erin (11 April 2013)

TPO said:



			Have a look at Equine Podiatry Supplies for pads you can duct tape on for turnout and have walking.
		
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The EPS pads may fit in your boots (after you cut them in half)

And socks to prevent rubbing - just put sock over the hoof before putting the boots on


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## ester (11 April 2013)

I have pics of Fs lame foot with and without a shoe on, it did look much worse without.

I don't know that I have sufficient experience to advise but will do a summary of what occurred here in case it helps- this was after 2-3 months of lameness and bar shoe/steroid treatment.  I spoke to several people about Fs feet, on here and Nic and rockley I then did some trimmer research and got a couple of recommendations.. I spoke to both and showed them pics via email and in the end made my selection based on location as much as anything as am sure they would both have done a good job. I then arranged a visit to talk about it a bit more and poss remove shoes depending on what we though/felt. He was 6 weeks post previous shoeing at that point so either needed shoeing again or not. No trimming done at that point in order to give him a bit of extra hoof wall. We were quite lucky in that most of last year was soft ground . Changed him on to a paddock paradise track system to get him moving as much as possible while grazing, and started in hand walking for about 10 mins- building up to longer/did lots of long reining as muscles a bit wonky too. After 6 weeks he did start to get noticeably more uncomfortable and we used boots for hacking out for the next 2-3 months but since then he has just improved. He does better if we can road trim reasonably frequently. The one 6 week period where he didn't do much road work and had to have more of a trim he was a bit sore after so we try and do less manual trimming now and been fine since.


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## Goldenstar (11 April 2013)

star said:



			Well no right now he's a field ornament but I'd like him to be a competition horse again so he will need studs in the future.  Doesn't seem much point getting him wonderful barefoot feet if then have to shoe him again. Would rather learn how to manage him with shoes unless that's not possible in which case he'll have to go through a period barefoot and then go back to shoes. He's even less sound without shoes at the moment though - lame in walk without boots on.
		
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There's every point in doing time BF and returning to shoes however I fully accept that with your horse at his age you don't wish to do this.
My horse was rising six when I removed his shoes his horn quality was horrible even the best remedial farrier was going to struggle todo a good with nothing to nail too.
My horse worked all his Bf year after the initial period ( apart from a break for a tooth removal) he hacked out he jumped on grass and surfaces and went to clinics to do dressage training I was lucky as he had done a lot as a four and five yo so I think the low key year was a good investment on lots of levels  his feet look now as though they are from a different horse the farrier has a foot to work with it was so worth the investment of time and effort .
I will be careful to get him at least four months a year working out of shoes six if I can .
I am not as purist as cptrayes I have three settled on this on off system and one with a conformation fault that I think is going to mean he needs shoes when in work.


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## Goldenstar (11 April 2013)

I started all mine by leading twice a day on all the different surfaces I could find Tarmac ,gravel , road planeings concrete twice daily I gradually increased this long reined out and about  lunged in the school .
My next step was to do longer road work with horse lead from another horse ( the wieght of the rider makes a big difference to how hard they find it.
When happy doing 45 mins three times a week I started ridden work but shorter rides and built up from there they where working in the school before that.


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## LucyPriory (11 April 2013)

Star, I've just had a quick look at your hoof photos.  Whilst photos can be misleading, I actually found quite a lot to like about the hooves.  I agree there are issues, the hoof capsules are scooting forward, angles are out etc.  But I can't help but wonder if he couldn't be so much better with not that much effort.

Does he tend to work a bit crooked?


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## star (11 April 2013)

LucyPriory said:



			Star, I've just had a quick look at your hoof photos.  Whilst photos can be misleading, I actually found quite a lot to like about the hooves.  I agree there are issues, the hoof capsules are scooting forward, angles are out etc.  But I can't help but wonder if he couldn't be so much better with not that much effort.

Does he tend to work a bit crooked?
		
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Had a lot of issues with crookedness when I first got him to the point he looked lame right hind initially.  A lot of straightening work and physio have helped but the turning point was all the time off he had last year followed by months of work in straight lines only.  He has since been getting 8's and 9's for centre lines, his dressage marks have gone up 5-10% and he feels much much more even in the contact.  He does still find the right rein harder though.


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## Tonks (12 April 2013)

I haven't read all posts so apologise if already been said. 

I think this process may take a long time. 

From recent research and experience of a similar nature, I believe that your horse may be suffering from having a poor functional hoof wall and not problems with it's sole, per sa. 

From my understanding it is biomechanically beneficial for the bones in the foot to be alined on top of each other in order to distribute ground forces evenly throughout the foot/limb. It appears however, from your radiographs that the RF medio-lateral balance from coffin/short/long pastern is not alined, thus unevenly distributing ground forces to cause uneven loading, which an inadequate hoof wall can't cope with. (You can see differences in inside/outside hoof length in radiogrpahs) but I am not a vet!!

The principle forces acting on the foot are the weight of the horse, the ground reaction force (GRF), and the tension in the deep digital flexor tendon.

This is an extract from the article previously mentioned, "When a horses foot stands on a flat, firm surface, the GRF distributes around the perimeter of the hoof capsule. But when standing on a conformable surface such as sand, the GRF distributes broadly across the bottom of the horses foot. In both cases GRF pressure is greatest approximately in the center of the foot, just in front of the coffin joint."

Improper hoof growth, trimming or shoeing might deform the hoof wall, causing flaring and the coronary band to move upward. Hoof growth slows as the body attempts to restore the hoof to a normal shape - does he by any chance have ring spacing irregularities on the wall? This would be an indication of this.

But, I think this describes your horse from what you've said???

If a horse doesn't have a good hoof wall, he cant walk because of painful pressure between the sole and coffin bone. However, if it has a poor sole, the horse can tolerate this quite well, if sensitive tissues are protected from pressure because the lamellae and DDFT support the coffin bone off the ground. I have paraprahsed the recent article.

On the right fore - Do you think that it would be worth having a good farrier to have a look at the medio-lateral balance on this foot in an attempt to try to even this balance as it appears to me, that your horse has a much longer length from coronary band to ground/floor on the outside than it does on the inside. To me, this would further encourage uneven distribution of pressure within the foot to thus exaserbate uneven loading and weakening of the hoof wall. Then, all structures within the foot/limb will not be alined.

I think he would benefit from having shoes taken off in order to stop impact vibrations and further concussion until his foot balance improves but i do know how difficult this decision is.

Good luck.


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## amandaco2 (12 April 2013)

My mare had very thin soles. She didn't bruise very often but felt the ground if uneven. Tried pads under shoes but didn't like the way the hoof looked or the tiny regressive frogs.
Know you said you don't want to do bf but I've gone down this path and got a horse with thick concave soles,no chips on the hoof and most importantly she's sound and comfy on nearly all surfaces....she will occasionally feel a big stone and pull her hoof up quick but she is so much better than she was in shoes.....


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## Tonks (12 April 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I have taken a close look at your xrays and as far as I can see the mediolateral balance, which your vets described as good, is out by maybe a couple of degrees on each front foot, with the right fore being noticeably the worse of the two, and the higher side being the medial, inside aspect.
		
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I am sorry, but if we're looking at x rays [which are presumeably taken from the back of the foot] the medial inside aspect of the RF does not appear to be the highest. 

To me, it is the OUTSIDE of the RF that is higher, combined with poor structural alinement from coffin through to long pastern whereby these structures follow this 'tilt' (higher on outside/lower on inside so that they 'tilt' to the left - forces are thus channeled down the inside of the lower limb/foot. Resulting in uneven loading.

The LF, however, shows greater medial length. 

But, what I thought was interesting (but not sure if it's clinically relevant) is the the mediolateral aspect, of the LR, of the long pastern bone shows greater rotation downwards and to the left, which then continues down through the short pastern which results perhaps in increased contact/compression of the coffin bone on the outside/left aspect? 

I'm not a vet - it's just an observation and I may be wrong but can't hurt having a word with vet about this???


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## Tonks (13 April 2013)

Forgot to say................

I would say the toes are long, and from the radiographs the LF shows a 'broken back' hoof pastern axis - but I think you already noticed this. I would say, however, that not only does this affect the coffin bone position, it would also affect your horse's 'breakover', thus affecting [not just the foot] but the whole limb also. 

Just a thought and again, I may be totally wrong!


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## Tonks (13 April 2013)

Tonks said:



			But, what I thought was interesting (but not sure if it's clinically relevant) is the the mediolateral aspect, of the LR, of the long pastern bone
		
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Me again......Opps sorry should say, 

"of the LF......." Not LR


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## Vickijay (13 April 2013)

The only piece if advice I would add would be find the best farrier in your area. 

My old horse had awful feet, flat with no heels, dreadful. He ended up very seriously damaging his ddft within his foot and was pretty much written off. I never believed they could be any better. 

I got a new farrier, one of the best IMO in the country. He revolutionised his feet. You could see the physical changes with each shoeing. It took time, had lots of different steps and cost a pretty penny but the results were astounding. 

I'm in Berkshire. If that's near ish to you and you want his name drop me a pm. 

I should add, I am also a pro barefoot person. None of mine have shoes on ATM. I couldn't justify it with the big horse though. His feet couldn't stand up to it and I wasn't prepared to have him very lame even in the field. When his feet were good enough though he did have his shoes off from November-march time, wore hoof boots as required and that also really helped. I couldn't of done it at the start though. 

Good luck


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## cptrayes (13 April 2013)

Tonks said:



			I am sorry, but if we're looking at x rays [which are presumeably taken from the back of the foot] the medial inside aspect of the RF does not appear to be the highest. 

To me, it is the OUTSIDE of the RF that is higher, combined with poor structural alinement from coffin through to long pastern whereby these structures follow this 'tilt' (higher on outside/lower on inside so that they 'tilt' to the left - forces are thus channeled down the inside of the lower limb/foot. Resulting in uneven loading.
		
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I am looking at the coffin bone not the hoof wall.


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## Tonks (13 April 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I am looking at the coffin bone not the hoof wall.
		
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I can see why it appears this way. 

But, I think that the edge of the bone is simply just a bit higher on the inside/medial aspect of bone due to its' shape and doesn't have any clinical relevance. There doesn't appear to be any ROTATION to the right or outside, which is what you may be getting at by mentioning it. But, only your vet can tell you if this is a problem or clinically significant in this case.

In my opinion, given that the outside of the wall is higher and the medial/inner aspect is lower and that the short and long pastern are badly mis-alined to the inside [which reflects the shape of the foot/walls] the general rotation of the coffin bone is towards the left/inside, rather than to the right.

Indeed, I think that if you look at the plantar aspect of the coffin bone, it is at its lowest towards the inside/medial aspect, which may be clinically relevant given poor hoof wall mediolateral balance. Lack of sole may also play a role, and this is where it may be sensitive for him.

However, as stated, I'm not a vet and I may be wrong but these are the questions I'd be asking my vet, if I saw these radiographs, as to their clinical relevance..


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## star (13 April 2013)

Just to clarify the xrays are latero-medial (outside to inside) and dorso-palmar (front to back) with the marker on the lateral aspect of the hoof.


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## Busybusybusy (14 April 2013)

My horse (bought to event) went lame last November, intermittently about 1-2/10ths & to cut a long story short, had a lameness work up & X-rays and found that he had thin soles, underrun heels, very weak caudal hoof and flat coffins bones, nerve blocked to navicular area of foot, though navicular bones looked ok.
Vet advised remedial shoeing, but I did loads of research & came to the conclusion that all remedial shoeing would do is mask the problems, yes it might make him sound in the short term, but in the long term it would probably cause more damage and shorten his useful life. Given that he is 7 I decided that although it would mean a period of time where I could not compete etc for the long term health of his feet I would take him barefoot. Changed his diet to low sugar low starch plus pro hoof, explored how to rehab his feet to improve them and decided that him going to Rockely would give him the best chance. Took his shoes off 6 weeks before he went and was astounded at the visible changes made in a very short space of time. 

These are pictures of his feet where you can clearly see the changes that were made over the space of 5 weeks;
Taken immediately after he has his shoes removed








Taken 5 weeks after








You can clearly see that the caudal area is starting to develop and the hoof is starting to grow at a new angle. 

Providing all goes to plan & being aware that barefoot is not an easy option, I will compete him barefoot - yes even XC & SJ!

I suppose, all I'm trying to say is that is it worth compromising the long term health of your horses feet for the short term gains of wanting to compete this year? I know that I would rather go for the long term option.


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## star (14 April 2013)

I guess it's the fact that he's 14 already so if we miss this year then he'll be 15 and he has other issues which might well start to catch up with him. If he was 7 then I would do it but he's twice that age.


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## Festive_Felicitations (14 April 2013)

Beau had / has flat feet. We always new he was very sensitive to rocks etc but never had them investigated till he mysteriously went lame in front and after 4 weeks rest was no better.

Should add that he had such sensitive feet that if you took off all 4 shoes with him stood on concrete he would go 'sore' infront of you. Shifting weight etc and if you walked him even on grass (over admitedly hardish ground) he would be lame. Marginally better on sand. So really very touchy, farrier used to shoe left side then right so he was never completely barefoot.

Anyway mystery lameness = Spoke to farrier, had the vet out shoes off and X-rayed. Found the cause of the lameness - tiny ting little abcess in a nail hole, bit of dirt must have gone in with the nail - it took another 3 weeks for that to work its way out and he had to be barefoot in that foot for the duration. He was lame in a hoof boot unless seriously padded with cotton wool.
What also emerged from the x-rays was that he had incredibly thin soles (sorry can't rememeber pedal bone angle or details), next to no heels and slightly long toes. The vet actually said he was surprised he was ever sound! 
Out of this came some changes in management.

When next shod he went in to natural breakover shoes at the front (and was in them for 18mnths at least), we also got a 1:10 formaldehyde:iodine mix from the vet to spray on his hooves daily as a disinfectant and to dry & toughen up the soles. When that ran out suggested we continue with meths. We didn't change his diet particularly (moved around a lot so grass/hay has changed a bit by region) or management (he has always lived out 24/7). 
I did start him on a joint supplement not long after and I don't know if related but his feet seem to have improved a lot. He still grows hardly anything between shoeing but I no longer worry about his feet apart from having to tell new farriers to be careful. He is no longer in natural balance as farrier not comfortable using them and is now fine in normal shoes.

It took him 2 weeks to adjust to the new shoes and we did easy work for a bit after that to let him adjust but basically we haven't looked back! 
He still feels some stones but nowhere near as much as before. The other month I rode him with a shoe missing and didnt realise till the end of the ride and he was sound on grass, gritty track etc which was unheard of before. He also went 8 weeks between shoeing and I only got the farrier out as I realised how long it had been, the shoes weren't loose or in need of doing particularly. Before we were lucky to make it to 5 weeks with out shoes coming off.
He also has some heel now and is not as long in the toe.

It wasn't a quick change but he was sound and working again in 6-8 weeks and massive improvement in general hoof health in a year.


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## Festive_Felicitations (14 April 2013)

Oh and was going to add I have been told that ridges in hooves can be linked to bouts of illness. The illness doesnt have to be colic etc and they could be casued by lameness/or stress. So it is possible the ridges you are seeing are a result of last years injury and the box rest, slowly growing out.


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## Busybusybusy (14 April 2013)

star said:



			I guess it's the fact that he's 14 already so if we miss this year then he'll be 15 and he has other issues which might well start to catch up with him. If he was 7 then I would do it but he's twice that age.
		
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Yes I can understand your dilemma & perhaps getting him on a foot friendly diet, shoeing with whatever makes him comfortable & enables you to do what you want on him, then taking his shoes off later on in the year to give his feet a break might be the best option.


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