# Where have all the hirelings gone



## black mustang (3 December 2016)

As title is there any hirelings left in the West Midlands Shropshire or North Wales has the industry died off have other people given up trying to find any.


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## PorkChop (3 December 2016)

They are about, however vastly decreased.

I only know of someone that does hirelings in Cornwall, can't help with the areas you are looking for.

You could just go hunting in Ireland, definitely hirelings there!


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## Orangehorse (3 December 2016)

There are some available for the Worcestershire Hunt and further afield I think, and another stable further west that advertises on Facebook.


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## Meredith (3 December 2016)

Try Heart of Wales Riding School, Penybont


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## ExmoorHunter (3 December 2016)

You should contact the Hunt Secretary of the pack you want to hunt with as they will be able to help you.


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## spacefaer (3 December 2016)

What packs are you looking to hunt with?

Shropshire and further north - there's Roger Rimmer of Kentonwood Stables. 
Jill Carenza does all the Shires packs, Midlands and I know has come up to Shropshire
Angie Davies does hirelings for Worcs/Shrops border packs
Further north, I think Andy Callwood still does them, as did Danny Carroll (although not sure if he is doing any this season)


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## gunnergundog (4 December 2016)

Rachel & Ollie Finnegan for any of the Leicestershire packs, plus Pytchley.  'Leicestershire Hunter Hirelings and Sales' on Facebook or you can reach Ollie on 07989696963.


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## Bernster (5 December 2016)

I do think they are generally thin on the ground.  I assume they've been hit like much of the equine business, hard to make a good living ?


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## black mustang (5 December 2016)

Thanks for your help but I am afraid none of them are interested in bringing horses to the Wrexham area which is a shame,to me it always looks a profitable business from a distance has insurance destroyed the job?


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## be positive (5 December 2016)

I would think it is not profitable to transport 1 horse to a meet, allowing at least 11/2 hours to prepare, drive there, get the rider on then drive home do a couple of hours work then drive back to collect the horse, without even taking the hire of horse into account it is probably at least 4 hours of someones time, add on the running costs of the vehicle the starting point to break even is around £120, then add on the horse, it would have to be at least £100 per day which means £220 for you to hire, I would think it is barely worth it for the providers unless they are taking a full lorry load when prices could come down a little, it is only going to be viable in popular hunting areas where there are several hunts so the horses will get used regularly.

From your point of view OP it may be worth looking at leasing or buying a horse if you want to hunt regularly or ask around and see if anyone wants their horse hunted for them, if you are experienced you may get some offers.


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## spacefaer (5 December 2016)

black mustang said:



			Thanks for your help but I am afraid none of them are interested in bringing horses to the Wrexham area which is a shame,to me it always looks a profitable business from a distance has insurance destroyed the job?
		
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Have you asked the Hon Sec? Are you Tanatside or Wynnstay there?

I know Rimmers bring horses down to the North Shropshire, which is further south than Wrexham, so unless he's fully booked for the day you want?
Have you tried Russell and Penny Teague?


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## spacefaer (5 December 2016)

be positive said:



			I would think it is not profitable to transport 1 horse to a meet, allowing at least 11/2 hours to prepare, drive there, get the rider on then drive home do a couple of hours work then drive back to collect the horse, without even taking the hire of horse into account it is probably at least 4 hours of someones time, add on the running costs of the vehicle the starting point to break even is around £120, then add on the horse, it would have to be at least £100 per day which means £220 for you to hire, I would think it is barely worth it for the providers unless they are taking a full lorry load when prices could come down a little, it is only going to be viable in popular hunting areas where there are several hunts so the horses will get used regularly.
		
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Hirelings with the decent providers are £225-240, with a deal to be done if you want several horses. That gives you a horse till about 2/2.30 (which is when most people start to pack up anyway!) or until 2nd horses, depending on your pack.


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## Starzaan (7 December 2016)

We used to do hirelings but it just isn't commercially viable any more. 
Imagine the cost of keeping a horse - a fit horse in hard work. Add to that the cost of staff to keep it fit and well cared for, the cost of insurance for both horses and staff, and for those hiring them. The cost of fuel and the time spent taking horses to the meet etc.

And then think about how few people actually want a hireling now. We used to have up to 35 going hunting from here each Saturday. Last season we barely managed to find people who wanted one or two. 

The market isn't there any more and it's SO expensive to produce quality hirelings. 

That being said, there are still people around who do them.


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## Countryman (7 December 2016)

Starzaan said:



			And then think about how few people actually want a hireling now. We used to have up to 35 going hunting from here each Saturday. Last season we barely managed to find people who wanted one or two. 

The market isn't there any more and it's SO expensive to produce quality hirelings.
		
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Why do you think that is?


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## spacefaer (7 December 2016)

Countryman said:



			Why do you think that is?
		
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I think because horses are comparatively cheap and there isn't the appreciation of a proper "made" hunter anymore.  People are prepared to take their leisure horse or competition horse hunting instead, and have never experienced what a real hunter is like. 

I used to hunt my event horses and had a perfectly nice time, but the first time I rode a hunter, I realised what I had been missing all these years! I am now fortunate enough to have a few really good horses at my disposal, which I have all the time in the world to "make" and I love doing it.


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## Starzaan (8 December 2016)

spacefaer said:



			I think because horses are comparatively cheap and there isn't the appreciation of a proper "made" hunter anymore.  People are prepared to take their leisure horse or competition horse hunting instead, and have never experienced what a real hunter is like. 

I used to hunt my event horses and had a perfectly nice time, but the first time I rode a hunter, I realised what I had been missing all these years! I am now fortunate enough to have a few really good horses at my disposal, which I have all the time in the world to "make" and I love doing it.
		
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I agree with this. People don't seem to want a proper hunter anymore. 

Personally I don't think I'd hunt anything else now having been fortunate enough to ride horses who really truly know their job. There really is nothing like a day out on a proper, made hunter. 

But people are taking their own horses now. We have had an increase in hunt liveries as the hirelings have gone. People seem to want their own now as opposed to hiring.


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## Tiddlypom (8 December 2016)

The comments about 'proper' hunters being superior to hunt on than all rounders is interesting. I only ever hunted my own horses, who were general all round types who did some hunting in the winter. I have been out with 7 different packs, and we seemed to cope well enough. I had some great days.

What was I missing?


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## Starzaan (8 December 2016)

Tiddlypom said:



			The comments about 'proper' hunters being superior to hunt on than all rounders is interesting. I only ever hunted my own horses, who were general all round types who did some hunting in the winter. I have been out with 7 different packs, and we seemed to cope well enough. I had some great days.

What was I missing?
		
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So hard to explain, but I felt the same as you until I had the chance to hunt 'proper' hunters rather than my own horses. 

A proper hunter knows more than you do about what is going on - watches hounds, helps you out over any country, stands like a rock when asked. I've found that a true hunter is always one step ahead of me haha! Light in the hand, quick off the leg, totally unflappable. Heaven.


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## Isbister (8 December 2016)

Starzaan said:



			We used to do hirelings but it just isn't commercially viable any more. 
Imagine the cost of keeping a horse - a fit horse in hard work. Add to that the cost of staff to keep it fit and well cared for, the cost of insurance for both horses and staff, and for those hiring them. The cost of fuel and the time spent taking horses to the meet etc.

And then think about how few people actually want a hireling now. We used to have up to 35 going hunting from here each Saturday. Last season we barely managed to find people who wanted one or two. 

The market isn't there any more and it's SO expensive to produce quality hirelings. 

That being said, there are still people around who do them.
		
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I would disagree about the market not being there any more. I have hunted for quite a few years both in the Midlands and now in the South, and there has always been a small number of hirelings on every hunt - my own hireling included.

I pay £200 to £220 per day for a hireling, which I think is about the right amount. Provided the livery yard is sending out three or four at a time, twice a week, I think the financial incentive is there for them.

The obvious advantages of having a hireling are that one's responsibility for the horse begins at the meet itself, and ends when the hunt finishes. There is no early morning rounding-up, tacking-up, putting into trailers or boxes, and no untacking and care afterwards, no investment (and capital tied up) in premises, paddocks, special vehicles, rugs or tack, no bother with farriers or vets, etc etc and no trouble with the horses either. In fact I suspect I am saving a small fortune each week.

More to the point, in my experience hirelings are a very superior ride.


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## Starzaan (8 December 2016)

I agree there is still a market, but it is nowhere near what it was. 

I also think more producers are turning to other things as it is just so expensive to produce a hireling. When all the time and costs are taken into consideration it's an awful lot when the market isn't as strong and reliable as it used to be. We used to have at least ten regulars who had two horses every Saturday. When the recession hit that number gradually decreased.
It's sad, because, as you say, hirelings are often a superior ride!


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## Starzaan (8 December 2016)

Just to add,  we also found that we could offer hunting livery for around the same money that we would make from a hireling, and cut our costs significantly. Shoeing, worming, vaccinating, tack etc is all the responsibility of the owner not us.


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## JDee (8 December 2016)

Caroline Webley from the Redditch area was providing hirelings last year, not sure how many or if she still is doing it


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## Isbister (8 December 2016)

Starzaan said:



			Just to add,  we also found that we could offer hunting livery for around the same money that we would make from a hireling, and cut our costs significantly. Shoeing, worming, vaccinating, tack etc is all the responsibility of the owner not us.
		
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I take your point but perhaps it also supports my view that - as a rider - it is a better deal to use hirelings?

I should add that for the hireling owners that I know and have known, their choice of business seems partly to be a lifestyle choice. Some hunt themselves and would be keeping (and feeding, looking after, transporting etc) their own hunters in any case, and so perhaps owning an extra half-dozen or so hunters to hire out becomes a more attractive or worthwhile proposition? Some also provide hunting livery for owners as well as keeping hirelings.

To the OP I would say that there are still hirelings about, but perhaps not as many and you just need to look a bit harder to find them. 

When I took up hunting, owning my own horse was never remotely a proposition I could have entertained, and I am still not persuaded that owning one's  own hunter is a sensible proposition for many people. In any case, as a novice, I needed a rather particular type of hunter for the first season or so.


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## ponypatters (10 January 2017)

I have a few listed here in the Midlands  hope it helps ! http://www.ponypatters.com/hunter-hireling.html


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## Goldenstar (10 January 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			The comments about 'proper' hunters being superior to hunt on than all rounders is interesting. I only ever hunted my own horses, who were general all round types who did some hunting in the winter. I have been out with 7 different packs, and we seemed to cope well enough. I had some great days.

What was I missing?
		
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You can't beat a made hunter its a different experiance .
Fatty knows the what the horn means and the huntsman calls .
He's been known to nap if you are go in the wrong direction .
He has two extra gears that he keeps for big runs .
He breaths hunting .
He's surefooted big hearted and knows how to pace himself through a long day .
Hes like a specialist car developed for his job .


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## Tiddlypom (10 January 2017)

Thanks, GS, and also Starzaan (who replied earlier), for your insights into the advantages of riding a made hunter cf an all rounder .


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## JDH01 (11 January 2017)

Starzaan said:



			So hard to explain, but I felt the same as you until I had the chance to hunt 'proper' hunters rather than my own horses. 

A proper hunter knows more than you do about what is going on - watches hounds, helps you out over any country, stands like a rock when asked. I've found that a true hunter is always one step ahead of me haha! Light in the hand, quick off the leg, totally unflappable. Heaven.
		
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This is really interesting as this is my experience of hunting my own horses over the past 20 years, admittedly it took a couple of years to get them there.


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## spacefaer (19 January 2017)

Old (ish) thread but I've just organised a hunting trip for 10 Irish guys and have booked horses for them from a hireling provider.  He had 17 to choose from for that day.  He's flat out busy - I think the demand is increasing as people realise what a superior ride a good hireling can provide over an inexperienced horse - they're worth their weight in gold. 

 A friend has field mastered a decent pack all this season off hirelings as he couldn't find an appropriate horse to buy.


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## ponypatters (20 January 2017)

I think hireings are a fab idea, when you compare the cost of buying a ready made hunter then keeping it, a hireling has to be a no brainer for people with little time/inclination to buy their own - or only want to hunt every now and again......


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## Ditchjumper2 (21 January 2017)

The Irish guys used the Finnegan's who seem high profile and also make and sell their hunters which are beautiful quality horses.   There is such a difference between a horse that hunts and a hunter! But they take time to make and you need to sacrifice your pleasure initially on a days hunting to end up with a mannered hunter. My favourite saying when people gallop past me if I am chatting  or helping someone and they ask why I am waiting or going steady is......because I can! Easy to gallop at the front not so easy to have a horse that will stand wait, not nap, go front back and middle....and do a bit of whipping or FM in emergencies!!


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## Goldenstar (21 January 2017)

Three seasons is what we plan around .


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## spacefaer (21 January 2017)

Ditchjumper2 - the guys (and girls!) had a great day - it was an expensive couple of days for them, but there would have been no way they could have done it any other way.

It depends how much you value your hunting - a day's visitor's cap plus hireling will be several hundred pounds - but you get a perfectly behaved hunter who is fit and ready to rock and roll, presented to you at the meet. No time spent "making" a young horse over several seasons into a mannered ride, no wet, cold, dark winter mornings slogging away getting them fit, keeping them fit etc etc. If you think a good hunter costs say £8k to buy and say £4/5k to run - that's a lot of days on a hireling!

(figures are very ballpark and are mainly plucked out of the air! I know it's possible to buy and keep cheaper, but I was equivalating the type of horse provided as a hireling in a decent country)
(No research has been done in the formulation of the above paragraph!)


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## Bernster (21 January 2017)

I suspect it varies around the country, but hirelongs seem a bit thin on the ground around here in the SE. One reputable one that I know of serves a few hunts around these parts but other than that there aren't many around. 

I was up in Leics at new year and did contemplate hiring there, £270 for New Year's Day meet I think it was.  Didnt go in the end.  And the thought of those infamous Leics hedges freaked me out a bit!


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## spacefaer (21 January 2017)

If you are on a good horse,  Bernster, the hedges look small! ! 

Can't post a picture of yesterday's Ledbury day,  but the hireling horses made the visitors brave!


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## gunnergundog (24 January 2017)

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=d932a0a47d323bc42c060ba552249fff&oe=59065E0C


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## spacefaer (19 February 2017)

kaufen said:



			A friend has field mastered a decent pack all this season off hirelings as he couldn't find an appropriate horse to buy.
		
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We may have the same friend Kaufen!


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