# Badminton XC thread



## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

I’d already promised OH that I’d go to a car show so won’t be able to watch live 😭🤣

But hopefully they’ll be some updates via this (especially Pippa’s rounds)

Thanks


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## Steerpike (7 May 2022)

Following as I'm not able to watch live!


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## The Bouncing Bog Trotter (7 May 2022)

It is very very very busy here. We queued to get into the car park at 0745 and there are rows of cars in front of us


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

Thanks for the thread. 

I bit the bullet last night and paid my twenty quid to watch it today - can't wait!


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## MyBoyChe (7 May 2022)

Bit worried as coverage hasnt started, said 1030am??


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## OrangeAndLemon (7 May 2022)

First rider doesnt start until 11.30am

https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-start-list-2022/


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## MyBoyChe (7 May 2022)

Thank you, Badders tv says coverage starts at 1030 so was worried it had already crashed!!  Will go and do a bit of housework then to keep occupied


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## Jeni the dragon (7 May 2022)

I'm stuck working but sister is having a couple of friends over and a picnic while watching! Not jealous at all!
Will be keeping an eye on here for updates!


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## Parrotperson (7 May 2022)

Supertrooper said:



			I’d already promised OH that I’d go to a car show so won’t be able to watch live 😭🤣

But hopefully they’ll be some updates via this (especially Pippa’s rounds)

Thanks
		
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 Right. This needs addressing:

1. What were you thinking? A car show? On badminton Saturday?!!!!

2. You need to hurriedly feign sickness. You can’t possibly go to a car show and puke all over the cars can you?

3. I Refer you to point 1

But forsooth Supertrooper put it in your diary for next year! 😩😩😩😂😂😂😂


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

It’s all set up on the tv and I’m about to surround myself with snacks 😄


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## asmp (7 May 2022)

Its a bit jerky - not going to be happy

Buffering 😡


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## Malibu_Stacy (7 May 2022)

Kirsty C at the start box!

ETA:
startlist: https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-start-list-2022/
results: https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-results-2022/
fence analysis: https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-fence-analysis-2022/


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

All set here.

Wearing my official Badminton tee shirt  (not current year's offering).

Good broadcast quality so far.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Here we go. I got goosebumps at the cheer that went up as they jumped the first


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## linka (7 May 2022)

Just tuned in late - is this Ian Stark commenting?


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			Here we go. I got goosebumps at the cheer that went up as they jumped the first
		
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Me too! God, I’ve missed it.


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

linka said:



			Just tuned in late - is this Ian Stark commenting?
		
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Yes.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Course looks like it’s riding well


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## linka (7 May 2022)

linka said:



			Just tuned in late - is this Ian Stark commenting?
		
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"your course in Maryland" okay yes it is.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Spoke too soon 😞


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Oh that’s annoying! I’ll be interested to see that combo ride through the rest of the day - it looks an awkward line.


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## linka (7 May 2022)

rotten luck on that corner


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## Malibu_Stacy (7 May 2022)

Oh, naughty from Classic here, he’d been super up till then (3 stops at nyetimber corner rail for those not watching)


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Just managed to watch that. She looked like she was going so well till then


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

The two Irish horses look so much like my mare it makes me wonder what she’d be like xc


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

I am oddly charmed by the egg box fences!


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## conniegirl (7 May 2022)

The jolty coverage is making me feel sick. Not impressed i paid £20 for this


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Toledo just grows doesn't he? He LOVES all the crowd!


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

I was just about to say I didn’t think we’d seen the broken bridge fence yet and then Toledo flies it 😄


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## Malibu_Stacy (7 May 2022)

Lovely sympathetic riding at the end from Padraig C, Fallulah looking a little weary.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Tom is riding a brilliant round


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Toledo looks like he’s having the best time of his life!


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

conniegirl said:



			The jolty coverage is making me feel sick. Not impressed i paid £20 for this
		
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Oh no! Mine is fine - v similar to the old BBC coverage really.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Mine is fab


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## crazyandme (7 May 2022)

No!!


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Oh no


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Toledo is still pleased! Jaunty little trot away!


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Noooooo!!!

Very glad to see them both on their feet but god, that was far too bold and fast!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Oh my gosh! Sickening. Hope they’re both okay


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Joseph’s ridden that horse very sympathetically. It never looked like it was full of beans at any point.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

He was flying but that bounce obviously needs a much shorter, bouncier canter. Such a pity.


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Joseph's horse is very sweet isn't he?


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

A lot of them seem to be over time quite early on course


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Go Nicola!! I’ve had lessons with her and she is just the loveliest person


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			He was flying but that bounce obviously needs a much shorter, bouncier canter. Such a pity.
		
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definitely! Think Toledo was a bit too enthusiastic.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

DiNozzo said:



			A lot of them seem to be over time quite early on course
		
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No shade on the two that have finished so far but I think we need a few finishers from the higher end of the leaderboard before we’ll know. These next three should stand a decent chance of being clear and fast though!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Lovely ridden by William, looks like that’s going to be a very tricky fence for a lot of the more enthusiastic and bigger striding horses coming down the bank


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

That was not nice to see! Hopefully no one else will do that at the bounce. Horse had no chance, rider is only human though and you can still make mistakes at that level


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

JL Dublin is the most enthusiastic looking horse. I love him!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

What colour is Oratorio? He doesn’t look dark enough to be black, is he just a dark liver chestnut?


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

No!!!!!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Oh my gosh Nicola. That looks horrific and I really hope she’s okay.


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

Oh god Nicola looked like she’s been knocked out


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Jesus christ that was bad


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Oh no no no 🥲🥲🥲🥲


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## crazyandme (7 May 2022)

Jesus this isn't boding well considering the caliber of the riders coming off


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## Haphazardhacker (7 May 2022)

Oh god that looked horrendous


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

Only just seen the Tom fall as my Dad turned up (grrrr). Gutted for him. Hope the horse is ok - he's just sublime.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

I feel sick


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Oh blimey Oli! Would like to see a replay on that…


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## OrangeAndLemon (7 May 2022)

Oh no! Nicola. So glad the horse got up. Hope Nicola is on her feet soon.


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

What on earth is going on today?!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

I have no idea how OT stayed on there


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Oh no I’m 5 mins behind. Which fence I’ll look away


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

That didn't look good for Nicola.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

There’s no update but they are not holding the course so hopefully she’s ok


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			Oh no I’m 5 mins behind. Which fence I’ll look away
		
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Nicola over the Mars M fence


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

I'm assuming they'd have held the course by now if Nicola Wilson needed ambulance/paramedic attention?


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			There’s no update but they are not holding the course so hopefully she’s ok
		
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fingers crossed. Sickening to watch


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Just seen it. Poor Nicola hope she’s ok.


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

I reckon so


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

I have no idea how Harry is able to commentate before going xc without being at all nervous


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			I'm assuming they'd have held the course by now if Nicola Wilson needed ambulance/paramedic attention?
		
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That’s what I’m assuming. They’ll usually try not to hold the course unless essential and the riders are a bit more spaced out at FEI level than your average BE class, but they’d surely have held someone on course by now if they were going to.


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## j1ffy (7 May 2022)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt sick seeing that fall of Nicola's. Hopefully she's ok.

I'm not convinced OT will get away with that...his stickability was impressive though.


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

That was a horrible fall for nicola - she was defo unconscious


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Allstar B is such a relief


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

That’s reassuring because she was completely motionless. I had awful flashbacks to Jonty


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

At least she won’t remember it. 

Don’t know how OT sat that, very quick thinking.


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## linka (7 May 2022)

Shit. Hold.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Oh heck, they are holding people. Not good for Nicola 😞


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

They are holding the course 🥲


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## j1ffy (7 May 2022)

Oh no, course held


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## Malibu_Stacy (7 May 2022)

course now being held, fingers crossed for Nicola


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Looks like there is a course hold, possibly a long one as OT’s dismounted


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## crazyandme (7 May 2022)

OT has actually gotten off. This doesn't seem like it'll be quick 😕


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

Arghh, course hold .

Not enjoying viewing this so far. Toledo's fall punished a fabulous horse.


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## j1ffy (7 May 2022)

I can't remember seeing everyone off their horses at a course hold, not in recent years anyway. This is really worrying


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## Custard Cream (7 May 2022)

Oh god this stop doesn’t bode well.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

This is looking really bad. It will obviously be a long hold. It’s just horrific.


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

linka said:



			Shit. Hold.
		
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I’m pretty sure she was knocked out so they’ll be doing full spinal precautions etc. regardless of how she feels, but considering she was rolled on most sensible option


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

j1ffy said:



			I'm not convinced OT will get away with that...his stickability was impressive though.
		
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Think he must have got the horse and the stickability from Andrew Nicholson


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

Tiddlypom said:



			Arghh, course hold .

Not enjoying viewing this so far. Toledo's fall punished a fabulous horse.
		
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Same here. Not sure at this rate I'll see it through to the end.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

They aren’t talking about Nicola at all - just referring to it as ‘an incident’ which worries me too. They are keeping very very quiet. I’m sure in the past I’ve heard them say ‘precautionary, up on her feet’ or whatever.  Hopefully they literally just don’t know.


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## BBP (7 May 2022)

I’m going to have to watch the rest hiding behind my sofa I think. I was afraid Nicolas horse would break its neck so was so relieved to see it get up. These riders and horses are so incredibly brave. So nervous for my friend.


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

The commentators are doing a good job filling time.


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Nicola Wilson has broken her back before so they are probably being extremely cautious in any case. 
Keeping everything crossed for her 🤞


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			They aren’t talking about Nicola at all - just referring to it as ‘an incident’ which worries me too. They are keeping very very quiet. I’m sure in the past I’ve heard them say ‘precautionary, up on her feet’ or whatever.  Hopefully they literally just don’t know.
		
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I’ve had a look on twitter, and latest I’ve seen is that she’s unconscious. Will keep checking as twitter sometimes gets quicker updates than commentator

I think they’re probably not talking about Nicola as they don’t want to report anything incorrectly or they don’t have an update. At least that’s what I’m hoping.

Will be interesting to see if OTs horse passes trot up tomorrow


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## flat3 (7 May 2022)

I've just tuned in (couldn't get rid of the relatives we had staying last night on time!) thought I wouldn't have missed much by this point but sounds like I was wrong 😱


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Not sure I’ll be watching even on catch up tbh


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## Fools Motto (7 May 2022)

That fall was horrific. Poor poor Nicola.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Have seen a comment on twitter to say Nicola is up and receiving medical attention - really hoping this is the case and they’re just taking their time to get her assessed


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

It’ll take time to immobilse and get her onto an ambo, they’ll be doing an initial assessment and deciding on how to transfer her. They’ll also have to take off her air jacket or deflate if she was wearing one?


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## Parrotperson (7 May 2022)

I reckon it might be air ambulance time. This is not good at all. Let’s hope they’re just be overly cautious. 🤞🤞 for Nicola.


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## Parrotperson (7 May 2022)

Ps when this happens radio silence is mandatory. So no one can hear anything and pass it on incorrectly. And they’d be stupid to say anything in tv about until they’ve been told by the organisers.


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

Supertrooper said:



			Not sure I’ll be watching even on catch up tbh
		
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I wouldn't, or definitely not the first half hour (so far).


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## splashgirl45 (7 May 2022)

I’m shattered already don’t know how much more I can take…. Really hope Nicola is ok, so worrying.


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## SOS (7 May 2022)

What’s going on?! Unable to watch during the day today and was following results online but it keeps crashing. Was it the bounce fence that caused an issue?


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## j1ffy (7 May 2022)

I'm not sure the course is particularly at fault - the issues are spread throughout and Toledo and Nicola's falls weren't at the fences that looked like they would cause issues. The course is huge and bold and there has been some brilliant riding and rounds. I see they've now taken out part C at the Mars fence.

I just hope everyone is ok, I'm still feeling a bit queasy after seeing Nicola so still on the ground.


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## Custard Cream (7 May 2022)

Tom fell at the solar panel bounce fence. Ollie almost came off at a corner, can’t remember where Nicola fell.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Did the commentators just say the fence Nicola fell at is also being removed? Could also be why the delay is so long too if they’re removing a fence


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Wonder why they have taken the fence out?


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

They've removed the fence that Nicola fell at from the course - is that normal?


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

splashgirl45 said:



			I’m shattered already don’t know how much more I can take…. Really hope Nicola is ok, so worrying.
		
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I’ve gasped more times than I’d like this early in to it

Wonder if they have removed the fence as it’s wicker & maybe slippy?


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

Which fence has been taken out? The Nicola one or the Tom bounce?


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

j1ffy said:



			I'm not sure the course is particularly at fault - the issues are spread throughout and Toledo and Nicola's falls weren't at the fences that looked like they would cause issues. The course is huge and bold and there has been some brilliant riding and rounds. I see they've now taken out part C at the Mars fence.

I just hope everyone is ok, I'm still feeling a bit queasy after seeing Nicola so still on the ground.
		
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Tom’s fall looked to be more rider error to me, he had a keen horse who seemed to come down the bank very strong and be jumping very bold coming into a bounce


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			Which fence has been taken out? The Nicola one or the Tom bounce?
		
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26(?)C, the one Nicola fell at


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			Which fence has been taken out? The Nicola one or the Tom bounce?
		
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Nicola one, it was fairly standard wide fence on a straightforward combination. It was wicker though so I wonder has the front of the fence been damaged/too easy for greased legs to slide over?


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			Which fence has been taken out? The Nicola one or the Tom bounce?
		
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Part of the Mars fence that Nicola fell at.


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## BBP (7 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			Which fence has been taken out? The Nicola one or the Tom bounce?
		
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The third element of Mars M where Nicola fell


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## Malibu_Stacy (7 May 2022)

SOS said:



			What’s going on?! Unable to watch during the day today and was following results online but it keeps crashing. Was it the bounce fence that caused an issue?
		
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Tom M came in quite fast to bounce, Toledo caught himself on second part pinged Tom off and went down. Both horse and rider up (and Toledo carried on himself down course) straight away.

Nicola had a really nasty fall at third part of Mars M combination, horse left a leg at the basket and had a full on rotational over Nicola.  Dublin up and trotted off, Nicola wasn’t moving as camera cut away.


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

sasquatch said:



			Tom’s fall looked to be more rider error to me, he had a keen horse who seemed to come down the bank very strong and be jumping very bold coming into a bounce
		
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Yes, you could see it coming as soon as he took off at the first element of the bounce.


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## SOS (7 May 2022)

Malibu_Stacy said:



			Tom M came in quite fast to bounce, Toledo caught himself on second part pinged Tom off and went down. Both horse and rider up (and Toledo carried on himself down course) straight away.

Nicola had a really nasty fall at third part of Mars M combination, horse left a leg at the basket and had a full on rotational over Nicola.  Dublin up and trotted off, Nicola wasn’t moving as camera cut away.
		
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Thankyou for the update, really hope Nicola is okay. I’ve watched the course walks several times so I knew the course and didn’t think that fence would be an issue as others said. But as we all now in our sport, even the smallest fences can cause freak accidents/


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			Yes, you could see it coming as soon as he took off at the first element of the bounce.
		
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Just incredibly unfortunate, and I’m sure Tom is kicking himself. WFP nearly had the same problem but was able to shorten Oratorio up for it.


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

Fence 27 is out


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## Custard Cream (7 May 2022)

Twitter eventing FB page is reporting (from someone there) that screens are up around Nicola. Please god I hope she’s ok.


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

I wonder if they have taken the fence out as they are worried it would cause too many dangerous rotational falls?


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

They're moving on course again, really hope Nicola is OK and it was just precautionary


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## Custard Cream (7 May 2022)

shortstuff99 said:



			I wonder if they have taken the fence out as they are worried it would cause too many dangerous rotational falls?
		
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I suspect it’s been removed because they are still helping Nicola and it is the fastest way to get the course reopened.


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

The good thing about the hold is that the adrenaline will have come out of Swallow Springs a bit, but he's still looking good despite that fight with the flag.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Custard Cream said:



			Twitter eventing FB page is reporting (from someone there) that screens are up around Nicola. Please god I hope she’s ok.
		
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Standard practice, so hopefully nothing to worry about! Fingers crossed we get some positive news about her condition soon.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Custard Cream said:



			Twitter eventing FB page is reporting (from someone there) that screens are up around Nicola. Please god I hope she’s ok.
		
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I wouldn’t take screens being up to be anything too scary - it’s usually done for privacy when a horse or rider isn’t back to their feet immediately. They’re now back on course so and the fence is removed, so I can imagine Nicola is in the best hands


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Custard Cream said:



			I suspect it’s been removed because they are still helping Nicola and it is the fastest way to get the course reopened.
		
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They seemed to have moved it to one side from what we saw when Ros jumped through it? Admittedly I don’t think I saw it in the original form except during Nicola’s fall so can’t 100% remember the layout!


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

43 seconds over the time seems quite a lot for aria?


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Pippa is on my Eventing Manager fantasy team so hoping she goes well (with both her rides - felt a bit guilty removing Harry Meade but his dressage just wasn’t good enough lol)


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Trotting through the lake like she’s out hacking


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

Custard Cream said:



			I suspect it’s been removed because they are still helping Nicola and it is the fastest way to get the course reopened.
		
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They won't allow horses to ride past if she is still on the course. She will have been in an ambulance or moved off.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

OT inside the time


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Swallow Springs is such an obliging little horse isn't he?


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Interesting to see if anything happens to Oli’s score after that quarry incident. We always get told when FJing to give the penalties if unsure as they can always get taken off later, but it doesn’t seem as if he’s had anything?


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Oh Pippa! Shame she’s retired but a very good call. I love Billy Walk On


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

Oh that’s odd, wasn’t expecting that - horse just gave up really


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## Malibu_Stacy (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			Interesting to see if anything happens to Oli’s score after that quarry incident. We always get told when FJing to give the penalties if unsure as they can always get taken off later, but it doesn’t seem as if he’s had anything?
		
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No penalties showing on the fence analysis, so I’d assume none?


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

Good call by Pippa to pull up. Billy Walk On not happy today.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

only_me said:



			Oh that’s odd, wasn’t expecting that - horse just gave up really
		
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Think he lost a bit of confidence after the mistake at the brush fence


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

I was excited for today - really looking forward to cheering on Pippa (esp on Grafton Street as he’s half brother to Lottie!) Ben Hobday, Kylie, Sarah Way,  and most of all Nicola who has taught Amber, Toby & Dolly because she is just so sweet and approachable and happy to teach all levels. There are some top riders I wouldn’t dare go and have a lesson with! Hard to enjoy this at the moment with so many incidents so early in the day. Pippa out too now. Oli is an absolutely brilliant rider.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Malibu_Stacy said:



			No penalties showing on the fence analysis, so I’d assume none?
		
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He’s a lucky boy!


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

I have to say I'm very impressed with the coverage and the shots. There's only one slightly weird sport with the cameras at one of the waters but much better than last times!

Piggy is true class isn't she?


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			I was excited for today - really looking forward to cheering on Pippa (esp on Grafton Street as he’s half brother to Lottie!) Ben Hobday, Kylie, Sarah Way,  and most of all Nicola who has taught Amber, Toby & Dolly because she is just so sweet and approachable and happy to teach all levels. There are some top riders I wouldn’t dare go and have a lesson with! Hard to enjoy this at the moment with so many incidents so early in the day. Pippa out too now. Oli is an absolutely brilliant rider.
		
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I’m definitely missing seeing as many of the European riders this year though. Always love watching Michael Jung and Ingrid Klimke xc


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Michael Jung is my favourite rider. Love love his style.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

I’d like to see someone take a pull before that bounce fence. They’re still mostly heading in quite fast and it’s scaring me!


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Some of this carnage is going to be lack of match practice and respect I think, for a 5*


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			I’d like to see someone take a pull before that bounce fence. They’re still mostly heading in quite fast and it’s scaring me!
		
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Wonder if any horses will try and jump it as one fence 😳


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

sasquatch said:



			Wonder if any horses will try and jump it as one fence 😳
		
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Toledo almost did!


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## Custard Cream (7 May 2022)

Piggy is having a cracking ride. I’m in awe of these brave horses and riders.


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

The bounce looks ok really - Toledo was just far too fast and flat. He was really galloping.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

sasquatch said:



			Wonder if any horses will try and jump it as one fence 😳
		
Click to expand...

Don't think my heart will take it!


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Oli eliminated?


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

OT now being listed as eliminated


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

Bounce is built very forgiving, sloped to allow a flat jump to slide over but unfortunately Tom’s horse was a bit too fast to get the leg out of the way cleanly


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Piggy came through very sensibly, and the American rider wasn't that fast through it.


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Great round by Piggy


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## Custard Cream (7 May 2022)

I suspect Ollie will be contesting his elimination. Have to say, I thought the shoulder had passed inside the flag.


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			Don't think my heart will take it!
		
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Think of all the fences on course it’s the bounce I find the scariest!


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Lovely round by Piggy!

Bet Oli is hotfooting it over to put a complaint in about that score 😳


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Commentators felt he did jump it.


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Custard Cream said:



			I suspect Ollie will be contesting his elimination. Have to say, I thought the shoulder had passed inside the flag.
		
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The commentators said the back legs had to come over the top of the highest part of the fence, and only one did. Be interesting to see how it falls out.


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## mypegasus (7 May 2022)

Heart in mouth at times but so good to be able to watch it

May have to resurrect my analysis that I enjoyed doing


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## BBP (7 May 2022)

Biting my nails with Bundy on course. I used to be her groom and lived with her and her dad in NZ.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

BBP said:



			Biting my nails with Bundy on course. I used to be her groom and lived with her and her dad in NZ.
		
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I don’t know how you can bear watching someone you know so well!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

I don’t know how Harry can be commentating and watching this knowing he has to ride it later! Or maybe that’s his strategy, watching everyone else’s mistakes


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

I think Oli shouldn’t get penalties for that, shoulders through and hind leg was over top of jump  (well one of them) so a clear effort was made.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Ooh, what happened with the fall for the American rider?


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## BBP (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			I don’t know how you can bear watching someone you know so well!
		
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It’s hard!!


----------



## conniegirl (7 May 2022)

Does anyone have a link to the live scores?


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

sasquatch said:



			Ooh, what happened with the fall for the American rider?
		
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Can’t even work out where it happened! That replay was just her plopping off under the trees.

Really like this other American pair! ETA - Tamra, not Philip Dutton. Can’t bear him.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

I used to watch Badminton and come away thinking how much I wanted to have a go and that I could do it. Not sure if now that I’m older, or now I have a horse who has about a leg of ability that the 5* have that I now don’t want to ever try and attempt it


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			Can’t even work out where it happened! That replay was just her plopping off under the trees.

Really like this other American pair! ETA - Tamra, not Philip Dutton. Can’t bear him.
		
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Mai Baum is just gorgeous! She’s a very nice rider, they look a really lovely pairing too


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## BBP (7 May 2022)

Such a shame for Bundy. But glad they both coming home safely.

I LOVE Mai Baum.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

I didn’t see what happened? Harry’s commentary was great. I’m rooting for him too. And Alice Casburn as she’s so young!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Lovely through the bounce, I think bold and careful sounds right for Mai Baum! Love to see how well he’s listening to her, shame about the time faults but what a lovely round to watch


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			I didn’t see what happened? Harry’s commentary was great. I’m rooting for him too. And Alice Casburn as she’s so young!
		
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Harry is one of my favourite XC riders, it’s a real shame his dressage didn’t go very well


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

I like Ariel Grald!


----------



## Sasababe (7 May 2022)

Does anyone know how nicola Wilson is?


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Do we have news about Nicola yet?


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

DiNozzo said:



			I like Ariel Grald!
		
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Definitely wouldn’t think it’s her first 5*!


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

I’m a bit in awe of how many people are there today!


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Crikey, another horrible fall there. Very glad to see them both straight up.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Oh no Cathal!
That could have been very nasty for horse and rider, very glad to see them both falling away from each other and getting up okay


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Lucky to walk away from that one


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

Wow, feels like there has been a fair few falls today already.

think that was unfortunate for Cathal, horse put down into hay obviously expecting solid ground but too much hay so essentially slipped on effort to save self


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

Even worse to look at in slow motion. Both very lucky to walk away.


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

That was horrific, I can't believe they did a slo-mo replay.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Come on Ben!


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Really didn’t need the slow motion replay of that 😱


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

I’m a bit worried Ben and Wilberry might part ways today


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Its nice seeing Ben on a 'proper' horse!


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			That was horrific, I can't believe they did a slo-mo replay.
		
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They probably feel more able to do replays of falls as the only people watching badminton tv will be horsey people and not genera public


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Once I know they’re both ok, I don’t mind the replays. I find the mechanics of falls quite interesting.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Arianna doesn’t half ride her luck at times but what a nice round!


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

Scary unbalanced riding by the Italian. Genuine horse, though.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Arianna’s horse looks like he’s still full of running


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Watching it in 'real time' I thought the horse had broken its neck so I didn't really appreciate seeing the full thing in slo mo.

It feels like there are way more horse falls than the last Badders (or maybe my memory is rubbish) - are there more solid fences/less frangible pinned fences this time round?


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## Chuffy99 (7 May 2022)

So Ros Canters time penalties have been reduced moving her up to 2 nd


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Nooooooooooo absolutely gutted for Ben 😩😩😩😩😩


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Oooh dear Ben! That was unlucky


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

My Ernie looks like a pony in comparison to some of the other horses competing


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			Watching it in 'real time' I thought the horse had broken its neck so I didn't really appreciate seeing the full thing in slo mo.

It feels like there are way more horse falls than the last Badders (or maybe my memory is rubbish) - are there more solid fences/less frangible pinned fences this time round?
		
Click to expand...

Yes it does feel to me like there have been more horse falls than normal, but maybe we’ve just had some dramatic ones to start the day off with?


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## scats (7 May 2022)

Any news on Nicola? 
I’m not watching but heard she had a bad fall.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Unfortunate round for Helen Wilson. When she wasn’t having braking issues they were going really nicely.


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## clairebearnz (7 May 2022)

So stoked about Amanda Pottinger - love seeing the little ex-racehorses pinging around. Gosh he's a catty wee thing.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

I’m going to shut up now. Every time I post, the rider I’m supporting promptly falls or retires!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Possible Mission is another horse looking like he’s enjoying himself!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Nicola is stable and in hospital - latest update.


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## fidleyspromise (7 May 2022)

Nicola Wilson off to hospital for scans but is stable


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

So Nicola transferred to hospital, and "stable"


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

This is what slightly worries me about air vests, would Cathal have been able to scoot out the way as he did if he had been wearing a vest?


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

shortstuff99 said:



			This is what slightly worries me about air vests, would Cathal have been able to scoot out the way as he did if he had been wearing a vest?
		
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I think there's probably as many ways air jackets can save you as cause you problems, it just depends on what does actually happen on the day.


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

Just seen on FB (badminton official page) that Nicola is in hospital but stable and will have precautionary scans. JL Dublin is comfortable apparently.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

I can’t get a sense of how fast this course is riding at all. Carjatan looked like he was cruising round but that’s a huge amount of time faults.

That’s a real shame for Mollie.


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

Shame about Mollie. Really like everything I’ve seen from her on social media, lumhulen etc but not the numerous times she struck her horse around this XC. Pressure got the better of her I think.


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Good job Kitty!!


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Woah well rescued!! Clever pony too


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Who’s in the lead?


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Piggy then Ros


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Glad to see some news re Nicola & Dubs


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## clairebearnz (7 May 2022)

Supertrooper said:



			Who’s in the lead?
		
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Piggy March and Vanir Kamira at the moment


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Thanks so much


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

I love Piggy on commentary. So encouraging!


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## flat3 (7 May 2022)

I love Piggy in the commentary, riding every fence with Kitty 😆


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Yes it’s great!


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

She’s try to commentate but is so invested she can’t stop reacting to Kitty’s ride


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

She wants her to make the time even though she could beat her ! Very sporting


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## Malibu_Stacy (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			She’s try to commentate but is so invested she can’t stop reacting to Kitty’s ride
		
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You get the impression she’s twitching on the commentators chair, kicking it on!


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

The older Team GB women really seem like the very best of sportsmanship. 

Not that everyone else is a bad sportsman, just they are so classy.


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

I'm desperate for Felicity Collins to have a nice ride. 

Mickey's a lovely horse.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

DiNozzo said:



			The older Team GB women really seem like the very best of sportsmanship.

Not that everyone else is a bad sportsman, just they are so classy.
		
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I think a big part of it is also watching your friends ride - at the end of the day, that’s essentially what they’re doing!


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Piggy is adorable doing the commentary!


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

I do love RSH Contend'Or. He's an overgrown pony with a massive horses jump.


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

I'm no great fan of Emily King but she's riding really nicely and having a great round so far!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			I'm no great fan of Emily King but she's riding really nicely and having a great round so far!
		
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I agree on this - she’s a talented rider I just really struggle to warm to her


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

sasquatch said:



			I agree on this - she’s a talented rider I just really struggle to warm to her
		
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I'm a bit annoyed we saw so much of her. She's not the biggest name on course to warrant that much attention!!

ETA: I didn't want her to fall though...


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## PipsqueakXy22 (7 May 2022)

I’m glad Oliver isnt eliminated after all!


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

Omw, they were travelling so well too. Unlucky


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

DiNozzo said:



			I'm a bit annoyed we saw so much of her. She's not the biggest name on course to warrant that much attention!!
		
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It looks like we may have jinxed her! 
would have loved to have seen more of Austin O’Connor and some of the Irish riders too


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Oh no, nasty fall for EK . Scary seeing her foot stuck in the stirrup


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Oof, another one to leave a leg and have a horrible fall.


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

That was heartbreaking. Poor Emily she may not have made the best decisions in the past but she rode so well.


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

Good horse just standing there while Emily's foot was still stuck in the stirrup.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Housemate starts hoovering and then my stream goes down!


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

PipsqueakXy22 said:



			I’m glad Oliver isnt eliminated after all!
		
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It will be interesting to see why they put an E on him initially on finishing however held on course and restarted him.
I don’t think he should have been E personally


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

So relieved to see the horse walking away. That was a horrific fall.


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

It seems some horses are getting quite tired but a bit quick and the leaving a leg.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Classic Moet showing why we shouldn’t discount older horses. Quick as always


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

I think this is the effects of a few years of no/soft 5* courses. Definitely more falls than normal, but this needs to be an argument for keeping the standard high, not softening.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Alice must be delighted.

Would love to get a lesson with Piggy


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			I think this is the effects of a few years of no/soft 5* courses. Definitely more falls than normal, but this needs to be an argument for keeping the standard high, not softening.
		
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I definitely agree with this - I think some of the Covid disruptions also haven’t helped making sure horses and riders are prepared


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

Topspin has a massive heart but a very strange head, doesn't he?


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Very nearly had a repeat of Tom and Toledo there


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Oh well done Alice!! A few hairy moments over the last 2 but home safe. What an amazing achievement


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

God, that was a by the skin of the teeth moment at the solar bounce again


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## clairebearnz (7 May 2022)

only_me said:



			It will be interesting to see why they put an E on him initially on finishing however held on course and restarted him.
I don’t think he should have been E personally
		
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I do think he should've been penalized for missing the flag, I don't feel the horse cleared the fence, it basically fell off the side


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

I think that was more about Flynn than the horse!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Ah no another one of my fantasy team is out!


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

only_me said:



			It will be interesting to see why they put an E on him initially on finishing however held on course and restarted him.
I don’t think he should have been E personally
		
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I say this not having read the FEI rules, but I think if it’s going to be a contested decision for something like the flag rules vs something massively obvious like a clear run out, the ground jury will let them run so it can be argued and sorted out afterwards. There’d be absolute murder if he’d been eliminated at the hold on course and then it was proven later it was ok.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			Oh well done Alice!! A few hairy moments over the last 2 but home safe. What an amazing achievement
		
Click to expand...

Wish we’d seen a bit more of her round. She looked excellent!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			I say this not having read the FEI rules, but I think if it’s going to be a contested decision for something like the flag rules vs something massively obvious like a clear run out, the ground jury will let them run so it can be argued and sorted out afterwards. There’d be absolute murder if he’d been eliminated at the hold on course and then it was proven later it was ok.
		
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I think the commentators said similar at the time as well, rather risk the flag penalties than represent and have it confirmed as a refusal


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## fidleyspromise (7 May 2022)

Anyone having buffering issues?


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

He just seemed to admit defeat and the water a few strides before he got to the log didnt he. Even more so on the second attempt.


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

fidleyspromise said:



			Anyone having buffering issues?
		
Click to expand...

If you're watching on a computer like I am, open new tab and paste it in afresh. That stopped the buffering for me.


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			I say this not having read the FEI rules, but I think if it’s going to be a contested decision for something like the flag rules vs something massively obvious like a clear run out, the ground jury will let them run so it can be argued and sorted out afterwards. There’d be absolute murder if he’d been eliminated at the hold on course and then it was proven later it was ok.
		
Click to expand...

True, but the ground jury had at least 20 mins to review fence while held on course. 
can Other riders contest his E removal I wonder?


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Unlucky for Hazel, horse just didn’t like that fence


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			If you're watching on a computer like I am, open new tab and paste it in afresh. That stopped the buffering for me.
		
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yes, wasn’t able to continue watching on TV anymore so back onto laptop


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

__ https://www.facebook.com/270460513729/posts/10158606405963730


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

only_me said:



			True, but the ground jury had at least 20 mins to review fence while held on course.
can Other riders contest his E removal I wonder?
		
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Ooh I have no idea! I would think it’s between him and the ground jury, maybe different at team competitions?


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Is there a leader board anywhere? I am losing track of who is where? Can’t see it in Eventing Scores


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Looks like the Austrian horse pulled a shoe, hope he’s okay


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

incredibly unlucky to lose The shoe in middle of the combination!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

I have seen so many of Dom Schramm’s YouTube and eventing videos over the years, but I think this is the first time I’ve seen him compete


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## Malibu_Stacy (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			Is there a leader board anywhere? I am losing track of who is where? Can’t see it in Eventing Scores
		
Click to expand...

startlist: https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-start-list-2022/
results: https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-results-2022/
fence analysis: https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-fence-analysis-2022/


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Thanks!
What happened to Sarah Way. I was looking forward to seeing her little dun horse. But she’s not on the start list


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## splashgirl45 (7 May 2022)

My sound has gone but pic fine, anyone else?


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

I wonder if having not seen this level of fences for awhile or that atmosphere it’s had an impact on how they’ve coped with the course


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

Why are we seeing so much of no.64, 65 and 67 but none of Irish rider 66?!?


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			Thanks!
What happened to Sarah Way. I was looking forward to seeing her little dun horse. But she’s not on the start list
		
Click to expand...

It says she withdrew after dressage, was looking forward to seeing her too


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

only_me said:



			Why are we seeing so much of no.64, 65 and 67 but none of Irish rider 66?!?
		
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Youd hope we’d see her given she has quite a competitive dressage score!


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Great round by Susie Berry


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Laura living a bit dangerously there


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Oh god that’s a horrible fall at the last


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Oh my god. That looked awful for Maxime. Really hope his horse is okay


----------



## Escapade (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			Thanks!
What happened to Sarah Way. I was looking forward to seeing her little dun horse. But she’s not on the start list
		
Click to expand...

Team Way Eventing
“I have made the incredibly hard decision this morning to not run Mouse xc. Getting to badminton is a lifelong dream and to be here is completely incredible. I am going to be totally honest and say that this morning I am not happy with where I am mentally to tackle one of the toughest courses in the world. With Poppy only being 5 months old, I had not fully appreciated the effect on me at a competition of this level. My brain is in complete baby fog  (if you know you know) and that is not the mindset that this track needs. I can’t thank everyone enough for all of their help to get me here and all the amazing messages of support. But most of all to mouse’s owners Kate and Mel for trusting and believing in me every step of the way. And Mouse I am so sorry that I am not allowing you to have your day today, but there will be another day and track more suited to us at the right time. 
Good luck to everyone going out there today you are going to smash it xxx”

Mad respect to her


----------



## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

I love seeing the difference in riders who just want to complete and those who want to win.


----------



## Fools Motto (7 May 2022)

Should have been stopped before that last, horse looked super tired.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Hope the horse is ok


----------



## Fools Motto (7 May 2022)

Sarah Way's statement is one of the best most sensible things I've ever read. Respect.


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

I agree that a lot of combinations will be lacking match practice as it were, there was only a small field at bicton, I don't think many British or British based riders competed outside the UK in 2021? 

So a lot will be coming in having not done any kind of 5* for 3 years, and it is a very technical course this year. The atmosphere and crowds are also very different!

I don't think they should have made it less technical but I do wonder if they should have made the qualification rules slightly stiffer. I think seeing so many top riders have issues early on has lead to more riders treating the course with respect. 

A lot of problems seem to be coming late on, so I wonder if it's a tiny bit of a fitness thing.


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## The Bouncing Bog Trotter (7 May 2022)

Screens all round the poor
Horse 😢


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

London 52 looks tired too with a long way to go


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

That was a horrific fall, horse exhausted but I don’t think that’s why it didn’t get up. Hopefully will be proved wrong later on with a good update.

Seemed to struggle to get neck/front up. Hopefully just winded


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			London 52 looks tired too with a long way to go
		
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He’ll really benefit from a hold.


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## The Bouncing Bog Trotter (7 May 2022)

Deleted


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

I can’t understand why they aren’t stopped. Lots of those tired horses scrambling over the last fence it’s so sad to see.


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## splashgirl45 (7 May 2022)

Has everyone else got commentary?


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Yes


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## splashgirl45 (7 May 2022)

Thanks are, don’t know why mine stopped a few horses ago


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

I’m not sure what the answer is but a bit of me is just wondering if this years course is just too tough after the last two years


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## only_me (7 May 2022)

Michen said:



			I can’t understand why they aren’t stopped. Lots of those tired horses scrambling over the last fence it’s so sad to see.
		
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I think he rode with a very long rein so there wasn’t any support to try & be able to help the horse, although I don’t think there have been too many exhausted ones finishing today


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## Bustermartin (7 May 2022)

Michen said:



			I can’t understand why they aren’t stopped. Lots of those tired horses scrambling over the last fence it’s so sad to see.
		
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Crazy - I thought the sport had moved on and horses were being stopped - but he looked way past it.  London 52 very worrying.  He looks tired far earlier than he should


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

That horse was far too tired and should have been stopped. It didn’t look good to me on the ground. 

It must be hard to make the decision to stop before the last, easy fence, but the ground jury should have stopped them. The rider shouldn’t have been the only one deciding.


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## The Bouncing Bog Trotter (7 May 2022)

Ok up
And walking


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

only_me said:



			I think he rode with a very long rein so there wasn’t any support to try & be able to help the horse, although I don’t think there have been too many exhausted ones finishing today
		
Click to expand...

There has been at least three over the last fence where me and my eventer friend have gasped as to whether they’d get over.


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Bustermartin said:



			Crazy - I thought the sport had moved on and horses were being stopped - but he looked way past it.  London 52 very worrying.  He looks tired far earlier than he should
		
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Agree, they should be being stopped if needed


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

The Bouncing Bog Trotter said:



			Ok up
And walking
		
Click to expand...

phew. Great to see


----------



## only_me (7 May 2022)

Supertrooper said:



			I’m not sure what the answer is but a bit of me is just wondering if this years course is just too tough after the last two years
		
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Or are there more riders with horses who haven’t had more 4* experience and so not quite as prepared/hours in as there normally would be?


Oh fabulous, horse is up but absolutely exhausted, looks like every step is requiring so much effort poor boy


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

I don't like his hind legs


----------



## Double_choc_lab (7 May 2022)

Phew.


----------



## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

The Bouncing Bog Trotter said:



			Ok up
And walking
		
Click to expand...

Phew, hopefully was just winded


----------



## BBP (7 May 2022)

Maximes grooms face has me welling up.


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Really hoping


only_me said:



			That was a horrific fall, horse exhausted but I don’t think that’s why it didn’t get up. Hopefully will be proved wrong later on with a good update.

Seemed to struggle to get neck/front up. Hopefully just winded
		
Click to expand...

So relieved to see he’s up and walking.


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Did anyone else see the vet(?) pulling his tail to one side while he was walking? 

I was really looking forward to Badders XC after so many years without it but I'm honestly finding this quite hard viewing with the number of horse falls today.


----------



## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

BBP said:



			Maximes grooms face has me welling up.
		
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me too! What a relief.


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			Did anyone else see the vet(?) pulling his tail to one side while he was walking? 

Click to expand...

What does that mean?


----------



## Michen (7 May 2022)

BBP said:



			Maximes grooms face has me welling up.
		
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Yep I cried! We ask too much of them I think.


----------



## Michen (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			Did anyone else see the vet(?) pulling his tail to one side while he was walking? 

I was really looking forward to Badders XC after so many years without it but I'm honestly finding this quite hard viewing with the number of horse falls today.
		
Click to expand...


I assumed it was to help stabilise him as he walked


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			What does that mean?
		
Click to expand...

He let go after a minute or so so I'm guessing the horse was a bit ataxic/wobbly when he first got up. Seemed to walk off fine after he let go so 🤞


----------



## Fools Motto (7 May 2022)

Vets hold onto tails to help stabilise wobbly horses.


----------



## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Was just going to say above


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

The Bouncing Bog Trotter said:



			Ok up
And walking
		
Click to expand...

I’m absolutely stunned, it looked like it was about to die to me to be totally honest. 
Never been more pleased to be wrong!!


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			Did anyone else see the vet(?) pulling his tail to one side while he was walking? 

Click to expand...

To keep it on its legs


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

I have to say I have a mixed love with eventing. I really struggled after Call again Cavalier died at that arena eventing thing in Cardiff


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			What does that mean?
		
Click to expand...

Could be for balance, the horse walked back to the stables without


Patterdale said:



			I’m absolutely stunned, it looked like it was about to die to me to be totally honest.
Never been more pleased to be wrong!!
		
Click to expand...

I had a horrible heart stopping moment when all I could think of was Hickstead. Very glad to have been proven wrong.


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Surprised the commentators haven’t mentioned Laura’s yellow ribbon for Tiggy yet.


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Hopefully just exhausted, shocked and winded


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

London 52 benefitted from a break!


----------



## BBP (7 May 2022)

Supertrooper said:



			I have to say I have a mixed love with eventing. I really struggled after Call again Cavalier died at that arena eventing thing in Cardiff
		
Click to expand...

Same, I was there for that and hearing him call broke my heart.


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

I sort of don’t think London 52 deserved his score, if didn’t look like an easy round compared to say classic Moët or VK and I bet he wouldn’t have made it inside if it wasn’t for the break. And I’m a huge fan of his!

Still that’s the luck of the draw and it’s been on their side today.


----------



## splashgirl45 (7 May 2022)

I had to re boot to get the sound back, very odd as I was no where near any controls so it couldn’t have been something I had done.  Glad to see Maxine’s horse up and hopefully ok


----------



## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

BBP said:



			Same, I was there for that and hearing him call broke my heart.
		
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I was too, it was absolutely dreadful and seeing the grooms, Emily and Mary’s faces 😭😭. That was a very odd event


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Michen said:



			I sort of don’t think London 52 deserved his score, if didn’t look like an easy round compared to say classic Moët or VK and I bet he wouldn’t have made it inside if it wasn’t for the break. And I’m a huge fan of his!

Still that’s the luck of the draw and it’s been on their side today.
		
Click to expand...

Yup, agreed. But it is what it is!


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Can work the other way though by totally switching horse off after hold


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## scats (7 May 2022)

sasquatch said:



			Could be for balance, the horse walked back to the stables without


I had a horrible heart stopping moment when all I could think of was Hickstead. Very glad to have been proven wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Hicksteads final moments are forever etched in my brain.

Sounds like it’s been a dramatic cross country. Not watched it as didn’t subscribe, but not sure I would have wanted to given all the falls.


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

It has been stressful viewing at times (I am a bit behind). There are lots of tough tests towards the end of the course, and tiredness/stamina must be an issue. 

I don't know exactly what the answer is. But it's interesting that piggy and Tina are saying that it's a huge step up for those doing a first 5*, but also that one day events aren't offering the right kind of early season prep. 

Equally though, a lot of those who have had problems are quite experienced riders. 

I don't know if the course should be slightly easier per se, but probably made safer in some way?


----------



## Double_choc_lab (7 May 2022)

Stream now keeps dropping. Fine up to now today. 😡


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Nooooo! A run out at the very last!


----------



## Fools Motto (7 May 2022)

The footage keeps buffering..... annoying


----------



## Parrotperson (7 May 2022)

Is anyone else’s live stream stopping and not restarting? Happening to me every few minutes and I have to restart the whole thing. Been fine until five mins ago.


----------



## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

Buffering regularly for me now


----------



## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

There was 11 eliminated on course in 2018, 4 in 2019 but more retired. 

I don't think it's too bad on balance, statistically.


----------



## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			Nooooo! A run out at the very last!
		
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For Bubby? My livestream went quite wonky for the past few mins 😩


----------



## splashgirl45 (7 May 2022)

Yes mines buffering every couple of mins☹️☹️


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Parrotperson said:



			Is anyone else’s live stream stopping and not restarting? Happening to me every few minutes and I have to restart the whole thing. Been fine until five mins ago.
		
Click to expand...

Yep! Mine has been awful and keeps buffering.
Given that we’ve paid for it, you’d think if it’s an issue with lots of people watching it they’d have made sure that the stream was capable for large numbers


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

I've dropped the quality of my stream down to 360p (minimum) and it's still buffering but not as badly. I'm guessing loads of people have got home from a morning/afternoon with their horses and are logging on!


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			For Bubby? My livestream went quite wonky for the past few mins 😩
		
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Yep! That's the sort of thing that comes back to haunt you when you're trying to go to sleep


----------



## asmp (7 May 2022)

Buffering here too 😡


----------



## scats (7 May 2022)

I’ve just subscribed as I’ve finished work now and decided I can catch up later. Not impressed with the buffering though!


----------



## Legolas123 (7 May 2022)

Keeps stopping and starting for me too


----------



## palo1 (7 May 2022)

Is it worth me forking out to watch it later?! Sounds pretty dramatic and quite stressful viewing...


----------



## Parrotperson (7 May 2022)

Mines not just buffering. It’s completely dropping out! Takes me a hood minute to restart it again. 

And I paid for this. I’m quite cross!


----------



## flat3 (7 May 2022)

I've been watching all morning and it's been streaming perfectly, last 10mins or so it's been awful, basically unwatchable


----------



## fidleyspromise (7 May 2022)

Mine just gone completely off air


----------



## Fools Motto (7 May 2022)

umm, what's happening!??


----------



## scats (7 May 2022)

God, wondering what I’ve paid for now! 
Its now gone ‘off air’


----------



## Double_choc_lab (7 May 2022)

Totally disappeared now.


----------



## splashgirl45 (7 May 2022)

Mine has just stopped completely 🙁


----------



## fidleyspromise (7 May 2022)

back now and not buffering


----------



## scats (7 May 2022)

Blame me guys, I got the subscription 10 minutes ago and this happened


----------



## pistolpete (7 May 2022)

Sounds like quite a testing course. Fast ground too. Hope all the fallers are okay.


----------



## asmp (7 May 2022)

Pretty rubbish considering the cost


----------



## Fools Motto (7 May 2022)

Fingers crossed, it's working now


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

It's back and stopped buffering now, I strongly suspect they had to reboot something 🙈.


----------



## Courbette (7 May 2022)

My stream keeps saying it is off air too after working perfectly all day. Very frustrating!


----------



## splashgirl45 (7 May 2022)

Mines back and no buffering


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Mine went off air and then came back on.

It better be sorted by the time Harry Meade starts or I will be murderous


----------



## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Seems fine now, touch wood!


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Right as he says he’s previously an international showjumper 🙈🙈🙈


----------



## scats (7 May 2022)

I felt that!


----------



## Parrotperson (7 May 2022)

scats said:



			Blame me guys, I got the subscription 10 minutes ago and this happened 

Click to expand...


Oh I might have guessed! 😂


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

palo1 said:



			Is it worth me forking out to watch it later?! Sounds pretty dramatic and quite stressful viewing...
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I don't know that I'd bother tbh. There have been some really horrible falls, horse and human, and everyone seems to be finding the course quite hard work. Normally there are a few that you watch and really enjoy because it's just a complete masterclass but they've been few and far between so far today. 

And oooooooooooooffff at the French guy who caught his kneecap right on the edge of the Vicarage V log 🤢. That must've bl00dy hurt!


----------



## Parrotperson (7 May 2022)

Ok. Seems better. It’d better stay better or I’ll be getting a bloody refund. 

If you’re going to charge people it had better work perfectly.


----------



## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

I’m honestly not sure if I’ll watch the cross country. I’ll watch the dressage and the trot ups to use the subscription but don’t think I want to be watching nasty falls


----------



## Parrotperson (7 May 2022)

I had to get up to restart it on my MacBook and now I CAN’T GET COMFORTABLE AGAIN. 🤬😂😂😂


----------



## Legolas123 (7 May 2022)

might be that they cut out the nasty falls when they upload it after the live stream


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Legolas123 said:



			might be that they cut out the nasty falls when they upload it after the live stream
		
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Yes, they used to do that on bbc


----------



## Velcrobum (7 May 2022)

Well sat by Joris


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Sticky bum!!!


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Making the course easier really isn’t the answer. Lowering the standard required lowers the standard coming forward. 
In anything.


----------



## Crazy_cat_lady (7 May 2022)

I toyed with paying the subscription fee but have no interest in the dressage (I'd have enjoyed watching past editions) but in the end couldn't justify £20.

If they'd done a say £5 day pass just for today I'd have happily paid

Sounds like I made the right decision based on people experiencing buffering. We have sky sports and occasionally the f1 very briefly freezes but it's rectified in seconds, i have no problem with that, I'd be annoyed at paying 20 quid for a streaming service, the red button coverage used to be fantastic


----------



## Bruce17 (7 May 2022)

Been out all morning so only just started watching. Quality is terrible, is anyone's else's or is it my Internet? Very pixilated, looks like not filmed in HD at all . For £20 im fuming 🤬 hope it's my Internet!


----------



## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

And it’s not like it’s the less experienced riders falling off! I’m not sure about Hazel Shannon but everyone else has represented their country at championships.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Crazy_cat_lady said:



			I toyed with paying the subscription fee but have no interest in the dressage (I'd have enjoyed watching past editions) but in the end couldn't justify £20.

If they'd done a say £5 day pass just for today I'd have happily paid

Sounds like I made the right decision based on people experiencing buffering. We have sky sports and occasionally the f1 very briefly freezes but it's rectified in seconds, i have no problem with that, I'd be annoyed at paying 20 quid for a streaming service, the red button coverage used to be fantastic
		
Click to expand...

Other than that 5 minute period at the end of Bubby Upton’s round it’s been absolutely fine 🤷🏻‍♀️

ETA- it’s basically the same as the BBC coverage tbh! Mostly the same commentators and riders, and I think I read it’s the same company doing the behind the scenes tech stuff that used to supply the BBC feed?


----------



## Dunlin (7 May 2022)

Really hacked off with Badminton TV. I rewound to the start after missing the first hour and all of a sudden the feed cut half way through Emily King's round and after ages restarted with Tim Price. Can't rewind and watch the 20+ riders I've now missed, what a load of rubbish.


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Crazy_cat_lady said:



			I toyed with paying the subscription fee but have no interest in the dressage (I'd have enjoyed watching past editions) but in the end couldn't justify £20.

If they'd done a say £5 day pass just for today I'd have happily paid

Sounds like I made the right decision based on people experiencing buffering. We have sky sports and occasionally the f1 very briefly freezes but it's rectified in seconds, i have no problem with that, I'd be annoyed at paying 20 quid for a streaming service, the red button coverage used to be fantastic
		
Click to expand...

It’s been perfect all day bar about 3 minutes. And my internet is as rubbish as it gets, 3-4/minute max!


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## Haphazardhacker (7 May 2022)

Yeah mine was bad for a few minutes but all good now


----------



## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

All good here now again, too.


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## Rowreach (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			I think this is the effects of a few years of no/soft 5* courses. Definitely more falls than normal, but this needs to be an argument for keeping the standard high, not softening.
		
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Patterdale said:



			Making the course easier really isn’t the answer. Lowering the standard required lowers the standard coming forward.
In anything.
		
Click to expand...

These are animals you realise? Making courses more complex and technical is one thing for the riders who get to walk it, analyse it, practise elements in isolation they think might come up at a particular event, but my issue with the evolution of eventing over the past 30 odd years is that it’s become grossly unfair on the poor bloody horses.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Quality of the pictures has been
fine all day bar about 5 minutes. The coverage and commentary has been brilliant.


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Iirc in Badminton 2019* there were quite a lot of rider falls but not many horse falls (maybe none) because the course was technical but mainly used fences that had frangible pins. It meant that riders were the ones dealing with the consequences of mistakes rather than the horses and that felt like a better option than what we've seen today.

*Might've been Burghley - I remember Ingrid Klimke having a fall at a series of two skinny gates?

Edit: Not IK as she didn't do Badminton 2019...no idea who I'm thinking of!


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

oh no, Alexander Bragg is out


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

I didn’t like that fence. I thought it just looked odd and hard to read, but most horses jumped it well


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			And it’s not like it’s the less experienced riders falling off! I’m not sure about Hazel Shannon but everyone else has represented their country at championships.
		
Click to expand...

I think commentators said her and her horse have won Adelaide 3 times, so wouldn’t say they’re inexperienced. Horse just took a dislike to the fence and hesitated, and that’s not really a fence you can get away with a bit more hesitant jump at


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

sasquatch said:



			I think commentators said her and her horse have won Adelaide 3 times, so wouldn’t say they’re inexperienced. Horse just took a dislike to the fence and hesitated, and that’s not really a fence you can get away with a bit more hesitant jump at
		
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I didn’t mean she was a novice! Just wasn’t sure if she’d been on an Australian team or not and was trying to be accurate 😄


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

I know it’s tradition and all that, but I cannot think of anything worse than a full day of fence judging in a tweed suit and bowler hat.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			Oh yeah, I didn’t mean she was a novice! Just wasn’t sure if she’d been on an Australian team or not and was trying to be accurate 😄
		
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I know someone was the reserve for a team in the Olympics but can’t remember who it was and if it was her or not


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Must be annoying to be held on course and then have another rider go past


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Yep but makes sense too


----------



## stangs (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			It meant that riders were the ones dealing with the consequences of mistakes rather than the horses and that felt like a better option than what we've seen today.
		
Click to expand...

That's what the sport has to be about, going forward. If the rider messes up, or if they're not on the same wavelength as the horse, and they fall and get a brain injury - that's on them. They knew the risks going in. But the horses didn't ask to be there; frankly, from what I've seen, I'm not sure many of them like it there. They certainly shouldn't have to pay for any mistakes made.
.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Huge fence to start off over though!


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

What a fence to face after a hold, though . Well done Sammi.


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

She’s riding well


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Who’s on course now?


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

I love seeing riders who are super chuffed at the finish 😄


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Lovely seeing a celebration from the Frenchmen there, doesn’t matter that he’s not winning, just happy to get round!


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Supertrooper said:



			Who’s on course now?
		
Click to expand...

Sammi Birch, Jean-Lou Bigot and there must be someone else but I’m not sure who!


----------



## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Thanks


----------



## Legolas123 (7 May 2022)

Stopped for me again, anyone else?


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Nope mine is ok


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

About 14 more horses to go. Scrub that, can't count! 

Picture/sound good.


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Is rider 94 wearing a hard plastic BP or am I seeing things?

Edit: I was not seeing things! Wonder if it was one of those exoskeleton BPs?


----------



## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

I’m probably going to curse him by saying this but I love Tom Jackson’s horse.


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Oh well sat


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

I definitely think the riders have been watching and learning as there seems to be less dangerous moments now (touch wood).


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Such an advantage going later


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			I’m probably going to curse him by saying this but I love Tom Jackson’s horse.
		
Click to expand...

And his riding


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## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

I don’t want to say anything until Tom Jackson has completed


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Lovely round!

Fingers crossed for Harry Meade too


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Here goes Harry!


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

I’m saying nothing


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

I’m not jinxing anything


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Harry safely home, that was a nice round to watch .


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Lovely round


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Everything's gone a bit odd on stream, no sign of Ros Canter where she should've been?

Edit: Panic over, she's reappeared 

I do love how WFP's horse is 17hh and he makes him look like a pony!


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Odd!


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Just William mainly


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

I wonder if she’s retired. They would have shown a run out or fall


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Oh no here she is!


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Lovely round by William Fox Pitt. Ros, Oli and Pippa all out on course now. Masterclass


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

This is all much nicer viewing than this morning, I guess those going later have the advantage of seeing what's gone wrong for everyone else. It's really nice to see horses finishing with some energy still in the tank!


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Fabulous by Ros


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Ros Canter clear and under the time! Amazing


----------



## RachelFerd (7 May 2022)

Lordships Graffalo looks a future superstar what a round!


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Oh no, fall for Pippa. 
I think my fantasy team have had one completion whoops


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Pippa has fallen 🥲


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			Pippa has fallen 🥲
		
Click to expand...

Oh no 😭😭😭😭 are both up?


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Oli now in 1st and 3rd



Ambers Echo said:



			Pippa has fallen 🥲
		
Click to expand...

oh no I was really hoping her second round would be better


----------



## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Oh that’s a shame about Pippa!

Some of these rounds toward the end of the day have been fabulous. Graffalo is so classy and Ballaghmor Class is just the most supremely consistent horse at this level. We’re lucky to be able to watch them.


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

It was off camera but commentators said they were both up. Isn’t Laura still on top?


----------



## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Are Pippa & Squirrel ok


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Living dangerously!!


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

I looove Tom McEwen's little chestnut mare 😍


----------



## sasquatch (7 May 2022)

Nice to see Tom get round this time!

I’m still surprised OT got no penalties at all


----------



## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

Kylie retired, that's such a shame


----------



## Michen (7 May 2022)

Oh poor kylie with the shoe


----------



## Fools Motto (7 May 2022)

Loved Kylies riding and her horse, such a shame.


----------



## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

Class decision by Kylie, it had been a beautiful round to then. She put the horse first.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

Tiddlypom said:



			Class decision by Kylie, it had been a beautiful round to then. She put the horse first.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Such a shame for them, they were going so well.


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Those dogs are loving that!!


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Well that’s a wrap. See you all tomorrow for SJ x


----------



## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Does anyone know what time the trot up is?


----------



## crazyandme (7 May 2022)

8.30am


Supertrooper said:



			Does anyone know what time the trot up is?
		
Click to expand...


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## fidleyspromise (7 May 2022)

Looks like 8.30 on the programme


----------



## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Thanks x


----------



## fetlock (7 May 2022)

Once the first half hour of carnage was over with and my nerves settled that was thoroughly worth paying the subs for. 
I had quite a bit of trouble with the buffering though and for several hours on and off. Only after they lost service altogether briefly and it came back on did the buffering finally stop for me.


----------



## Skib (7 May 2022)

We mssed all those last rounds as we were summonned to deal with the burglar alarm going off at our daughter's house. I can possibly work out how to replay.


----------



## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

After the first few horses the XC seemed to ride well. Here are the stats which I think makes it look pretty good.


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## PipsqueakXy22 (7 May 2022)

Does anyone know when it will be available for replay? I was working today so didnt get to watch most of it, was going to watch it now but doesn’t seem to be available yet


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

PipsqueakXy22 said:



			Does anyone know when it will be available for replay? I was working today so didnt get to watch most of it, was going to watch it now but doesn’t seem to be available yet
		
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'Later tonight' and 'as quickly as we can' according to a recent update on the Badminton Horse Trials page.

Timings for tomorrow.


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## TPO (7 May 2022)

I didn't buy it because I'm in thr land of no Internet. Reading about how people with good service have struggled I doubt I'd have seen anything.

Just finished reading this thread and it hasn't been pleasant.

I constantly teeter on the edge of the rabbit hole about the ethics of riding and competing horses. The life threatening position that entering Badminton puts horses in sits less and less well with me (a nobody!) each passing year.



Michen said:



			We ask too much of them I think.
		
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Rowreach said:



			These are animals you realise? Making courses more complex and technical is one thing for the riders who get to walk it, analyse it, practise elements in isolation they think might come up at a particular event, but my issue with the evolution of eventing over the past 30 odd years is that it’s become grossly unfair on the poor bloody horses.
		
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I agree with these sentiments 😥


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## MuffettMischief (7 May 2022)

Custard Cream said:



			I suspect it’s been removed because they are still helping Nicola and it is the fastest way to get the course reopened.
		
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not read all the replies so this may have already been said. I asked a steward why the fence was taken out and he said it was because of Nicolas fall, and that none of the horses before that had jumped it that well. We actually watched all of the horses go through before Nicola (thankfully didn’t see her fall) and he was right, it didn’t seem to be jumping well at all. All bar one before Nicola clattered it or almost left legs


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2022)

TPO said:



			I didn't buy it because I'm in thr land of no Internet. Reading about how people with good service have struggled I doubt I'd have seen anything.

Just finished reading this thread and it hasn't been pleasant.

I constantly teeter on the edge of the rabbit hole about the ethics of riding and competing horses. The life threatening position that entering Badminton puts horses in sits less and less well with me (a nobody!) each passing year.






I agree with these sentiments 😥
		
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Me too,   I really struggle with the ethics of dangerous horse sports these days.  I love horses and ride but do question it more and more.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (7 May 2022)

Do we know when the BBC coverage starts tomorrow? I'm too tight to pay for the subscription!


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## Squeak (7 May 2022)

Sorry if I’ve missed it but what’s the latest update on Nicola? It was a horrible fall for her.


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

The course did make uncomfortable viewing at the start but after that rode pretty well, with people altering how they rode the influential combinations.


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## stangs (7 May 2022)

shortstuff99 said:



			The course did make uncomfortable viewing at the start but after that rode pretty well, with people altering how they rode the influential combinations.
		
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But surely even one horse getting in a nasty fall like Vitorio Du Montet (even if he wasn't seriously injured), is one horse too many?


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

When you get the likes of Toledo De Kerser being punished for an overly bold jump by a horrible fall in an otherwise fabulous exhibition round, I do question whether I want to continue to follow the sport.

My first Badminton as a spectator was over 50 years ago.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (7 May 2022)

Crazy_cat_lady said:



			Do we know when the BBC coverage starts tomorrow? I'm too tight to pay for the subscription!
		
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BBC 2, 2pm


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

stangs said:



			But surely even one horse getting in a nasty fall like Vitorio Du Montet (even if he wasn't seriously injured), is one horse too many?
		
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Was that the last fence horse? That was a failure of the stewards and rider to pull up rather than the course.


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

Tiddlypom said:



			When you get the likes of Toledo De Kerser being punished for an overly bold jump by a horrible fall in an otherwise fabulous exhibition round, I do question whether I want to continue to follow the sport.

My first Badminton as a spectator was over 50 years ago.
		
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I would agree but I thought he rode it at far too much pace and if he realised his horse was in that mood he could have done the alternative route which didn't include the bounce and was minutely longer. So I would also say rider error.


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## teapot (7 May 2022)

Tiddlypom said:



			When you get the likes of Toledo De Kerser being punished for an overly bold jump by a horrible fall in an otherwise fabulous exhibition round, I do question whether I want to continue to follow the sport.

My first Badminton as a spectator was over 50 years ago.
		
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I'd say that horse was punished by rider error not fence. Far far too fast into a bounce.  I'd love to hear Lucinda Green's thoughts on that speed and approach...


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

Yes, but it was a fairly minor error by TM with big consequences for the horse. The rider of the exhausted horse who fell at the last had no such excuses. He should have been stopped on course. So that horse was failed by multiple people.


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## LEC (7 May 2022)

I thought it was a good course - 73% completion rate and 63% clear rate is a strong rate as normally closer to 50%.

I think it was a shame about the baskets and not sure why horses didn’t read them well as the ground line was strong but right decision to remove element 3. Tom was scary at the bounce and the horse had no chance. Interesting how everyone rode the fence quieter after that. I thought on the whole horses read the course well and some were rider errors but get 3/4 of the field round is a good result. I actually thought this and Kentucky were very horse friendly especially vs Burghley in 2019 which wasn’t so much and really punished poor riding with the horse suffering.


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## LEC (7 May 2022)

Tiddlypom said:



			Yes, but it was a fairly minor error by TM with big consequences for the horse. The rider of the exhausted horse who fell at the last had no such excuses. He should have been stopped on course.
		
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This is a top professional with his eye on the prize. In fact his last xc faults were for a similar reason.


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## SOS (7 May 2022)

I read in the comments on Facebook that the BBC is showing Badminton all day Monday on the red button… I checked the schedule and it’s true. I wonder what that will be?! If it’s the XC/SJing just not live that will be rather frustrating for us that have paid for Badminton TV but knew we would never be able to watch it live.

Looking at the wording for Badminton TV it does say it’s the only way to watch it LIVE where as I was under the impression it was the only way to watch the full thing at all? 

Might just be me though!


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (7 May 2022)

Does anyone know when the XC will be available to re-watch on Badminton TV? The dressage was uploaded pretty quick it seemed. 
I have been avoiding social media and this thread all day so I can watch it this evening as have been busy, but it just says 'off air' - so I assume it hasn't been uploaded yet?


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## PipsqueakXy22 (7 May 2022)

Tiddlypom said:



			'Later tonight' and 'as quickly as we can' according to a recent update on the Badminton Horse Trials page.
		
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thanks I’ll keep an eye then, also I know this is thinking very far ahead and slightly off topic) but any idea if Burghley will be on red button or will that be a subscription only too?


SOS said:



			I read in the comments on Facebook that the BBC is showing Badminton all day Monday on the red button… I checked the schedule and it’s true. I wonder what that will be?! If it’s the XC/SJing just not live that will be rather frustrating for us that have paid for Badminton TV but knew we would never be able to watch it live.

Looking at the wording for Badminton TV it does say it’s the only way to watch it LIVE where as I was under the impression it was the only way to watch the full thing at all? 

Might just be me though!
		
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If that’s true I’ll be mad I only paid so
I could watch it and couldn’t even watch it today because of work so I’m still waiting for the replay, might be Monday before I have time now anyway so it would mean I paid for nothing  will have to wait and see I guess


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## teapot (7 May 2022)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			Does anyone know when the XC will be available to re-watch on Badminton TV? The dressage was uploaded pretty quick it seemed.
I have been avoiding social media and this thread all day so I can watch it this evening as have been busy, but it just says 'off air' - so I assume it hasn't been uploaded yet?
		
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Badminton posted to say they're trying to do it as quickly as possible but with six hours to sort. BBC used to take a while too.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (7 May 2022)

teapot said:



			Badminton posted to say they're trying to do it as quickly as possible but with six hours to sort. BBC used to take a while too.
		
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Fair enough, good to know it's being worked on!


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			oh no, Alexander Bragg is out 

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I totally wasn't impressed with him today. To give that horse a couple of whacks as soon as it was up from its knees was appalling.


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## Chianti (7 May 2022)

TPO said:



			I didn't buy it because I'm in thr land of no Internet. Reading about how people with good service have struggled I doubt I'd have seen anything.

Just finished reading this thread and it hasn't been pleasant.

I constantly teeter on the edge of the rabbit hole about the ethics of riding and competing horses. The life threatening position that entering Badminton puts horses in sits less and less well with me (a nobody!) each passing year.






I agree with these sentiments 😥
		
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I wonder how it looks to the outside world when you have so many horses having, what sounded like, quite nasty falls? This is meant to be entertainment. Can it be entertaining when there's a possibility that the animal concerned may be injured. Years ago I used to go to all the big events and really enjoyed them, I'm not sure I could now. The public's response to the experience of the horse in the Modern Pentathlon was swift and they wanted change. I think everyone in the horse world has to be aware that we are now constantly under review and horses falling over, what look like very challenging jumps, may be the next MP moment.


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## DiNozzo (7 May 2022)

I don’t think Toledo’s fall was that bad. It certainly looked dramatic, but he was up and cantering away still looking thoroughly pleased with himself.

I’m far more concerned about horses like Swallow Springs that tangled with the flag and the poor horse that fell at the last.


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## Mynstrel (7 May 2022)

Just watched a compilation of today's falls on YouTube. It wasn't pretty.


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## teapot (7 May 2022)

Interestingly Kitty's horse had blood down one front leg and wasn't stopped...

I noticed at the time and there's a photo on the Badminton website for everyone to see.


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2022)

Chianti said:



			I wonder how it looks to the outside world when you have so many horses having, what sounded like, quite nasty falls? This is meant to be entertainment. Can it be entertaining when there's a possibility that the animal concerned may be injured. Years ago I used to go to all the big events and really enjoyed them, I'm not sure I could now. The public's response to the experience of the horse in the Modern Pentathlon was swift and they wanted change. I think everyone in the horse world has to be aware that we are now constantly under review and horses falling over, what look like very challenging jumps, may be the next MP moment.
		
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The fact that horsey people are now also questioning the ethics of using horses in this way also speaks volumes.


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

I haven't seen it all as went out to ride and do the pony, and then the replay isn't up yet, but the issue for me was that most of those who didn't complete seemed to have nasty, crashing falls- not all of them but a lot. Nicola's fall obviously had serious consequences, Emily King could have been dragged- that was a real heart in mouth moment for me, Tom McEwen's fall was not nice at all, Cathal Daniels was another where I felt like the fall could be really serious- and that is just off the top of my head, I feel like there were other falls where both horse and rider went down and it is always just horrible to see. 

I think far more mims clips/frangible pins could have been used on course to give it the technicality, but punish the riders with penalties, not with injuries- never mind the horses! 

Controversial statement perhaps, but I don't think the punishment for a rider getting a fence wrong needs to be an injury- let alone to the horse!

Especially given the context of there having been no Badminton for 3 years and 40 Badminton first timers, plus several doing 5* for the first time. 

It's also interesting that in commentary, when I think it was Tina and Piggy in the box together they both said you do not get any fences of this level in any one day events- obviously advanced 1 day XC is different, but you'd think you might get maybe one fence per course which was similar technicality/difficulty? 

I have to say I can't remember the last event I watched where there were so many horse falls.


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## RachelFerd (7 May 2022)

Wishfilly said:



			I haven't seen it all as went out to ride and do the pony, and then the replay isn't up yet, but the issue for me was that most of those who didn't complete seemed to have nasty, crashing falls- not all of them but a lot. Nicola's fall obviously had serious consequences, Emily King could have been dragged- that was a real heart in mouth moment for me, Tom McEwen's fall was not nice at all, Cathal Daniels was another where I felt like the fall could be really serious- and that is just off the top of my head, I feel like there were other falls where both horse and rider went down and it is always just horrible to see.

I think far more mims clips/frangible pins could have been used on course to give it the technicality, but punish the riders with penalties, not with injuries- never mind the horses!

Controversial statement perhaps, but I don't think the punishment for a rider getting a fence wrong needs to be an injury- let alone to the horse!

Especially given the context of there having been no Badminton for 3 years and 40 Badminton first timers, plus several doing 5* for the first time.

It's also interesting that in commentary, when I think it was Tina and Piggy in the box together they both said you do not get any fences of this level in any one day events- obviously advanced 1 day XC is different, but you'd think you might get maybe one fence per course which was similar technicality/difficulty?

I have to say I can't remember the last event I watched where there were so many horse falls.
		
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Interesting that people are reflecting on it being tough. I feel like I saw more horse falls than I would want/like to see - but equally, the clear rate was quite high actually at 63%. 

I often read on here that people want to see courses returned to the 'good ole days' of solid timber and less skinnies - which this very much was (in fact, no really skinny skinnies whatsoever) - but if you're not using skinny skinnies to seperate the field by having lots of drive-by harmless 20pens, they are going to have to be separated another way. In this case they were mainly seperated by people hurrying home trying to catch the time and getting caught out by non-frangible questions at that point. Perhaps that final combination of sheep feeders should have had a frangible second part - which would have prevented a few falls. But how often on here do I read "_no one wants frangibles..."? _

I think there's also a considerable amount of people here forgetting how absolutely gnarly some of the old courses were for nasty horse falls - I rewatched an old DVD of of 'thrills and spills' the other day - that used to be considered popular entertainment - on rewatching it I'd consider it to be jaw-droppingly unpleasant.

Bar the french horse I don't think we saw any really horribly tired horses at the end. And I do think that horse bottomed out surprisingly quickly. 

On the positive side - lots of people who were aiming for a clear rather than a speedy one made an absolutely great job of the course. It was the pressure of catching time that seemed to cause bulk of the nasty problems. And sadly for TM I think probably an error of judgement on an incredibly flamboyant horse.


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

teapot said:



			Interestingly Kitty's horse had blood down one front leg and wasn't stopped...

I noticed at the time and there's a photo on the Badminton website for everyone to see.
		
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So he does. Blood shows up pretty well on a grey, too. Left foreleg near the knee. Fence is the Badminton Flower Boxes no 25, so there were 6 fences left to jump after this.

Hope it's just a minor injury, but wouldn't the FJs radio this in to control?


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## quiteniceforacob (7 May 2022)

I was there today and struggled with it actually. The questions being asked of horses were complex. One rider said “good boy” after his horse landed which prompted lots of discussion about how everyone else seemed to land and smack.

Hazel Shannon’s horse seemed to have a bloody nostril as it cantered past us without her.

A moot point as neither of us are capable, but not sure I’d be pushing a horse of mine through such a challenging course.


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## poiuytrewq (7 May 2022)

So jealous of all of you that got to watch! 
I’d definitely have paid but had to work this afternoon so by the time I’d done mine, dog walked etc it just wasn’t worth it


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## teapot (7 May 2022)

Equirating just put a stat up of 2008-2019, just over 1 in 2 starters jump clear, 54% to be precise. 

I think it was a proper 5* test that exposed not only perhaps rustiness, but also that 1* to 4* level needs to change too. Eric Winter did a zoom chat with Lucinda Green last year about course design and it's WELL worth a listen/watch.


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## Surbie (7 May 2022)

I found lots of the XC very difficult to watch - Nicola's fall, Swallow Springs and the total failure to check him after, and Vitorio du Montet who was struggling before that horrific fall. I wish more of the visibly struggling horses had been stopped.

That said, there were some lovely people to watch - Kylie Roddy was fab, Ros Canter and Alice Casburn. So pleased for Alice. I had a very brief chat with her at Burnham without knowing who she was and have since been rooting for her to succeed.


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## RachelFerd (7 May 2022)

teapot said:



			Equirating just put a stat up of 2008-2019, just over 1 in 2 starters jump clear, 54% to be precise.

I think it was a proper 5* test that exposed not only perhaps rustiness, but also that 1* to 4* level needs to change too. Eric Winter did a zoom chat with Lucinda Green last year about course design and it's WELL worth a listen/watch.
		
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Yep - I think the difference here was that a lot of errors we would see at Pau or Luhmuhlen are run-outs at little skinny triple brush things - rather than some of the tip-ups we saw today. 

I found the Lucinda/Eric chat interesting - I think Eric is an excellent course designer and has such detailed interesting thinking behind his decisions. Sometimes I worry that Lucinda is a little bit too keen on 'the good old days' stuff - but then who can blame her when she was so good at the good old days. I still think she's a genius at understanding how horses think XC...


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## PipsqueakXy22 (7 May 2022)

ive only seen the compilation of falls and that French one in particular is just horrific to me… poor thing was so tired he couldn’t even get up! And I’ll bet he’ll put out an apology and by next year he’ll be forgiven. I just don’t think it’s good enough surely from past mistakes the riders AND stewards will have learnt their lesson and fix this issue! If I recall the exact same thing happened to an American rider on the last fence a couple years ago because her horse was exhausted, plus it’s been happening time and time again probably since the beginning of Badminton. It’s always the same excuses that they didn’t know in the heat of the moment and in hindsight they should’ve. Maybe they need to actually start pulling riders up when necessary, in fact I don’t think I’ve ever seen a rider been pulled up in a 5* event (tho I really only watch badminton burghely and Lexington) I know it’s the show of a lifetime and adrenaline is running and all but I really do think this needs to change, by riders and show officials because although it’s only the odd one it’s horrible watching them push them to the point of pure exhaustion


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

RachelFerd said:



			Interesting that people are reflecting on it being tough. I feel like I saw more horse falls than I would want/like to see - but equally, the clear rate was quite high actually at 63%.

I often read on here that people want to see courses returned to the 'good ole days' of solid timber and less skinnies - which this very much was (in fact, no really skinny skinnies whatsoever) - but if you're not using skinny skinnies to seperate the field by having lots of drive-by harmless 20pens, they are going to have to be separated another way. In this case they were mainly seperated by people hurrying home trying to catch the time and getting caught out by non-frangible questions at that point. Perhaps that final combination of sheep feeders should have had a frangible second part - which would have prevented a few falls. But how often on here do I read "_no one wants frangibles..."? _

I think there's also a considerable amount of people here forgetting how absolutely gnarly some of the old courses were for nasty horse falls - I rewatched an old DVD of of 'thrills and spills' the other day - that used to be considered popular entertainment - on rewatching it I'd consider it to be jaw-droppingly unpleasant.

Bar the french horse I don't think we saw any really horribly tired horses at the end. And I do think that horse bottomed out surprisingly quickly.

On the positive side - lots of people who were aiming for a clear rather than a speedy one made an absolutely great job of the course. It was the pressure of catching time that seemed to cause bulk of the nasty problems. And sadly for TM I think probably an error of judgement on an incredibly flamboyant horse.
		
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I can only speak for myself, and I've never said that I don't want frangibles- I don't think there should be frangibles on every fence, but I would personally be happy if they were used more on today's course- particularly on the late technical questions. To me, the first place I would put them is on that bounce- it would have caught people out who weren't riding the fence well, and prevented falls. I think the sheep feeders would have been a good place to put them too. 

I don't think the horses at the end were horribly tired, but I think they were tired enough that they were making mistakes on difficult technical questions- riders had lost the adjustability, perhaps. And in some cases, possibly the riders themselves were tired and made mistakes. 

I agree the field should be separated, but why can't they be separated by things that cause no/less harm to horse and rider? Time penalties, run outs, refusals, frangible pins, and yes falls, but not falls where you really feel horse or rider could have an awful injury. Those things I think are acceptable for an "error of judgement" FWIW.

I also do think the context of the event should be taken into account- that this is the first badminton in 3 years, some of the riders haven't done a single 5* in that time, I think more than usual were first timers (although equally some first timers rode safe, classy rounds). 

For me, as someone who is a real fan of eventing, it wasn't something I truly enjoyed watching, at times I felt uncomfortable and it has perhaps changed my opinion a bit. 

And yes, a lot of people have said they want a return to the old school, but (from my understanding) in the "old school" you had the big jumping efforts, but not the very technical questions at the end of the course as well- that, to me, was the big source of the problems. I think if you are including these big, "old style" jumps, you have to be mindful, at least, of what they take out of the horse?

Tbf, the broken bridge was spectacular, the big ditches and rails were spectacular- and they weren't what were causing the problems. But maybe they were taking something out of the horses and riders that meant having several technical questions late on wasn't the right thing?

But yes, I really enjoyed watching e.g. Felicity Collins, who I saw at Bicton last year do a nice, safe clear, with time penalties but not ridiculously slow- those were definitely the enjoyable rounds out of the ones I watched.

But equally, say, Emily King, her round was enjoyable to watch, right up until it wasn't (for me, at least).


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## Dunlin (7 May 2022)

I ended up going out and enjoying the weather, ditching Badminton TV for their rip off content. £20 and where is it to watch? If it's being edited then why am I paying £20 for live coverage because edited highlights is on the BBC tomorrow. 

Moving on to the course. I hated the bounce, really made me feel sick watching the early ones come in so fast. I thought the Nyetimber corners was going to be a bit of a bogey but jumped quite well in the end. 

I'm old(ish) and remember the golden years of Badminton. Try and get hold of the VHS from 1992 when Mary King won on King William. Mark Todd's horse died, there were SO many horse falls and William Fox Pitt pushed his exhausted horse to the end and collapsed on landing after the final fence and didn't get up for ages, sound familiar? Courses are far more technical today, I don't like the large number of corners and skinnys these days where the accuracy has to be so precise but that's how it is. Back in the 70s - 90s it was long format (steeplechase plus roads and tracks before the course) and the xcountry was huge with no frangible pins but it was more akin to something you'd see out hunting, can't say I've been tempted to 'pop' a solar panel myself.


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

Piggy has said on one of her videos that she's heard Nicola is awake, remembers everything and asking about the horse etc so that' sgreat.


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## linka (7 May 2022)

Chronicle of the Horse thread on this makes interesting reading for another perspective (disapproval of the course vibes).


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (7 May 2022)

Still no XC to watch on Badminton TV… not impressed. A) they managed to upload dressage in a timely manner and B) if they’re editing it then I would just wait and watch the televised highlights…


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## teapot (7 May 2022)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			Still no XC to watch on Badminton TV… not impressed. A) they managed to upload dressage in a timely manner and B) if they’re editing it then I would just wait and watch the televised highlights…
		
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Dressage was cut into four sessions, which could be uploaded during the day, not six hours solid of HD coverage, that's a lot to upload in one go, give them a chance 

BBC was never available immediately afterwards either.


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			Still no XC to watch on Badminton TV… not impressed. A) they managed to upload dressage in a timely manner and B) if they’re editing it then I would just wait and watch the televised highlights…
		
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Agreed, but I wonder if they are editing out Nicola's fall and the hold on course? Tbf if I was solely watching the replay I wouldn't need to watch a long hold?


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Tiddlypom said:



			When you get the likes of Toledo De Kerser being punished for an overly bold jump by a horrible fall in an otherwise fabulous exhibition round, I do question whether I want to continue to follow the sport.

My first Badminton as a spectator was over 50 years ago.
		
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What has changed for you then? It’s far safer now than for most of your time spectating. 

Toledo de Kerser was allowed to go far too fast into that bounce. Wasn’t the fence or the sport’s fault, just error of judgement. 

All those who think the sport should end, how do you see that panning out for horse welfare in the long term?


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Personally I think the trouble is that people just love complaining, and we have too many outlets to do that now with social media. There seems to be this general view in modern life that if something is in any way uncomfortable then it is unacceptable and should instantly be done away with. It’s quite a dangerous slope that society is sliding down - in my opinion.


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			What has changed for you then? It’s far safer now than for most of your time spectating.

Toledo de Kerser was allowed to go far too fast into that bounce. Wasn’t the fence or the sport’s fault, just error of judgement.

All those who think the sport should end, how do you see that panning out for horse welfare in the long term?
		
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Is it fair for a horse to be punished for a rider's error in judgement?

I don't think saying in _this specific context_ some more use of safety features at the end of the course may have been a good idea is the same as arguing for a sport to end?

ETA: Then again I really enjoyed spectating at Bicton last year and I know some people felt that was "too soft".


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (7 May 2022)

teapot said:



			Dressage was cut into four sessions, which could be uploaded during the day, not six hours solid of HD coverage, that's a lot to upload in one go, give them a chance 

BBC was never available immediately afterwards either.
		
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They could have done the same with XC as dressage though?  
Admittedly patience isn’t a prominent aspect of my personality when I’m looking forward to something! 😂


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Wishfilly said:



			Is it fair for a horse to be punished for a rider's error in judgement?
		
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No of course not, but life isn’t fair for anyone, man or beast. It’s not fair on my horse when I put him wrong into an 80cm fence. It’s not fair on my cat when I’m late home. It’s not fair when hedgehogs get run over. It’s not fair when a dog gets told off for running away after it’s come back. But that’s life innit.


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

I don't think the sport should end at all, I think things should be stricter aka tired horses should be pulled up.


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## teapot (7 May 2022)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			They could have done the same with XC as dressage though? 
Admittedly patience isn’t a prominent aspect of my personality when I’m looking forward to something! 😂
		
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Not without breaking the feed - the dressage kept cutting off every session. Latest fb update:

'The Badminton Cross Country coverage will be available as soon as it is technically possible to make it available to rewatch.
Unlike the dressage sessions the cross country livestream is delivered to you in one 6 hour session and this, understandably, will take longer. We are expecting it to be available within the next few hours.
We really thank you for your patience and we really are doing everything possible to get it to you as quickly as possible.'


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## stangs (7 May 2022)

XC folks, how experienced are stewards and fence judges at this level of competition?

Just thinking that it's not surprising that they might miss some blood on a horse who's moving at a fast pace, but any fool show be able to recognise a horse who's too tired to go on. And I appreciate that fence judging at a lower level is usually high responsibility, little training, but surely that's not the case at 5* events?


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			No of course not, but life isn’t fair for anyone, man or beast. It’s not fair on my horse when I put him wrong into an 80cm fence. It’s not fair on my cat when I’m late home. It’s not fair when hedgehogs get run over. It’s not fair when a dog gets told off for running away after it’s come back. But that’s life innit.
		
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I know horses do get hurt at 80/90/100 or even just out schooling but _in general _the stakes are lower. 

Ultimately, the horses have no choice. They don't get to walk the course and make a reasoned judgment about whether they want to run that day or not (I know that's slightly facetious). So I do think doing a little bit more to protect them from rider error/tiredness is reasonable. 

I don't think that's the same as saying I want the sport to end.


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## teapot (7 May 2022)

stangs said:



			XC folks, how experienced are stewards and fence judges at this level of competition?

Just thinking that it's not surprising that they might miss some blood on a horse who's moving at a fast pace, but any fool show be able to recognise a horse who's too tired to go on. And I appreciate that fence judging at a lower level is usually high responsibility, little training, but surely that's not the case at 5* events?
		
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It's less about experience, though the 5* stewards are usually well-seasoned 'pros' at it, but procedure. Say someone radioed about that french horse at fence 27 - you've got less than 90/120 seconds in reality from radioing in the issue, to decision being made, to recieve a reply, to then red flag someone, by which point that horse could be approaching the last fence...

Not saying it's right or wrong, but the reality of stopping someone that close to home is a lot harder than being at fence 14.


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## Chianti (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			What has changed for you then? It’s far safer now than for most of your time spectating.

Toledo de Kerser was allowed to go far too fast into that bounce. Wasn’t the fence or the sport’s fault, just error of judgement.

All those who think the sport should end, how do you see that panning out for horse welfare in the long term?
		
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I don't think that the sport should end but we have to be aware that times have changed and the public can very quickly become upset if they think that horses are in danger because of what we're making them do. Riding and competing can only continue as long as it's socially acceptable- many activities involving animals have disappeared because society decided that they didn't want them to happen. It must be possible to design a course where fewer horses fall and tired horses or horses that are bleeding should be stopped.


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## HashRouge (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			No of course not, but life isn’t fair for anyone, man or beast. It’s not fair on my horse when I put him wrong into an 80cm fence. It’s not fair on my cat when I’m late home. It’s not fair when hedgehogs get run over. It’s not fair when a dog gets told off for running away after it’s come back. But that’s life innit.
		
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I think the "life's not fair" argument is a dreadful reason for not trying to improve horse welfare. As Michen says, things like over-tired horses being pulled up could make a big difference.


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Wishfilly said:



			I know horses do get hurt at 80/90/100 or even just out schooling but _in general _the stakes are lower. 

Ultimately, the horses have no choice. They don't get to walk the course and make a reasoned judgment about whether they want to run that day or not (I know that's slightly facetious). So I do think doing a little bit more to protect them from rider error/tiredness is reasonable. 

I don't think that's the same as saying I want the sport to end.
		
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Statements like this made publicly by riders are exactly the ammunition that drives the agendas of those who do want the sport to end. 

No extra measures could have stopped that horse from being run too fast into that fence. It was an error of judgement.


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

HashRouge said:



			I think the "life's not fair" argument is a dreadful reason for not trying to improve horse welfare. As Michen says, things like over-tired horses being pulled up could make a big difference.
		
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We weren’t talking about that. It was about Toledo de Kerser.


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## stangs (7 May 2022)

Chianti said:



			I don't think that the sport should end but we have to be aware that times have changed and the public can very quickly become upset if they think that horses are in danger because of what we're making them do. Riding and competing can only continue as long as it's socially acceptable- many activities involving animals have disappeared because society decided that they didn't want them to happen. It must be possible to design a course where fewer horses fall and tired horses or horses that are bleeding should be stopped.
		
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Agree, but I will just add it's a shame that the parts of the competitive world only care about their animal's welfare if it looks bad to an outsider's eye - and even more of a shame that any change comes from public outcry, rather than people on the inside fighting to improve things.


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## Rowreach (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			No of course not, but life isn’t fair for anyone, man or beast. It’s not fair on my horse when I put him wrong into an 80cm fence. It’s not fair on my cat when I’m late home. It’s not fair when hedgehogs get run over. It’s not fair when a dog gets told off for running away after it’s come back. But that’s life innit.
		
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That’s a spurious argument. Some things are more controllable than others. It’s more achievable to make 5* eventing safer for horse and rider than to prevent hedgehogs getting run over.

Innit 🙄


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

stangs said:



			XC folks, how experienced are stewards and fence judges at this level of competition?

Just thinking that it's not surprising that they might miss some blood on a horse who's moving at a fast pace, but any fool show be able to recognise a horse who's too tired to go on. And I appreciate that fence judging at a lower level is usually high responsibility, little training, but surely that's not the case at 5* events?
		
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From what I’ve heard about most of the Badminton FJs, they wouldn’t do many other events.

Either way, the FJ can’t do anything except radio any concerns through to Control - they pass it onto the TA/TD/ground jury etc and that’s where the decision gets made.

Must admit I didn’t particularly notice the French horse until the fall but unless it was visibly exhausted a couple of fences out, there really is minimal opportunity to make a decision, communicate it and then get the horse pulled up.


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## Patterdale (7 May 2022)

Rowreach said:



			That’s a spurious argument. Some things are more controllable than others. It’s more achievable to make 5* eventing safer for horse and rider than to prevent hedgehogs getting run over.

Innit 🙄
		
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Oh FFS this was clearly in relation to a comment about Toledo de Kerser’s fall.


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## Laafet (7 May 2022)

stangs said:



			XC folks, how experienced are stewards and fence judges at this level of competition?

Just thinking that it's not surprising that they might miss some blood on a horse who's moving at a fast pace, but any fool show be able to recognise a horse who's too tired to go on. And I appreciate that fence judging at a lower level is usually high responsibility, little training, but surely that's not the case at 5* events?
		
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I thought you had to be very experienced but a work colleague recently asked me where I did my BE volunteering as they are Fence Judging at Burghley this year and had been told they had to get some practice in - they've never done it before. They are related a the person that usually does it so taking their spot, that was how they got in.


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			From what I’ve heard about most of the Badminton FJs, they wouldn’t do many other events.

Either way, the FJ can’t do anything except radio any concerns through to Control - they pass it onto the TA/TD/ground jury etc.

Must admit I didn’t particularly notice the French horse until the fall but unless it was visibly exhausted a couple of fences out, there really is minimal opportunity to make a decision, communicate it and then get the horse pulled up.
		
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I pulled up a horse at an UA event, but I can't even remember how it happened officially- as in who said yes pull them up on the radio. Me and my co fence judge could see the few fences before hours and watched it scrape over and clearly exhausted, I spoke into the radio and said this horse needs pulling up they are about to have an accident and was immediately told yes, pull them up.

The other fence judges had been making "looking tired" "scrambled over" comments but no one said this horse needs stopping until it got to our fence, and really it should have been stopped several fences previously.


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			Statements like this made publicly by riders are exactly the ammunition that drives the agendas of those who do want the sport to end.

No extra measures could have stopped that horse from being run too fast into that fence. It was an error of judgement.
		
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If the bounces had been frangible, would he have fallen, though? He'd have still had penalties, it would still have influenced his result.

FWIW, I think the thing that's most likely to cause the sport to end is a horse or rider death. That's the sort of thing that would get organised public campaigns, sponsors pulling out, insurance going through the roof etc etc.

I think making the sport a bit safer is what preserves it. 

I also think putting so many technical questions at the end of the course this year was perhaps an error in judgement on the part of the course designer. I can't believe the course was designed with the intention of causing several serious falls late on to riders who had otherwise had good rounds. 

Equally, I do think the levels below need to be made a true preparation for 5* (particularly advanced one day events that are "badminton prep").


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

Wishfilly said:



			If the bounces had been frangible, would he have fallen, though? He'd have still had penalties, it would still have influenced his result.

FWIW, I think the thing that's most likely to cause the sport to end is a horse or rider death. That's the sort of thing that would get organised public campaigns, sponsors pulling out, insurance going through the roof etc etc.

I think making the sport a bit safer is what preserves it.

I also think putting so many technical questions at the end of the course this year was perhaps an error in judgement on the part of the course designer. I can't believe the course was designed with the intention of causing several serious falls late on to riders who had otherwise had good rounds.

Equally, I do think the levels below need to be made a true preparation for 5* (particularly advanced one day events that are "badminton prep").
		
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There have been plenty of horses deaths and it has not ended the sport.


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## Chianti (7 May 2022)

stangs said:



			Agree, but I will just add it's a shame that the parts of the competitive world only care about their animal's welfare if it looks bad to an outsider's eye - and even more of a shame that any change comes from public outcry, rather than people on the inside fighting to improve things.
		
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Exactly. Even in the adrenalin rush of going round badminton you surely must feel that your horse is tired and so pull it up? Just because a sport or individual event has always been run in a certain way that doesn't mean it can't be changed. I don't think eventing has seen the negative press that say dressage has but that doesn't mean that the spot light can't turn onto it. The next Olympics will be very interesting to see if the welfare of the horses is given the priority needed.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

There were plenty of rider deaths too at one point and that didn’t end things either, although it led to a lot of safety improvements.


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

I probably phrased my post about horse and rider deaths badly- what I mean is, if we are really worried about the sport of eventing being changed beyond recognition or ending (which I don't think is likely, by the way) a really high profile horse or rider death (or a spate of them) could be a catalyst for that.

I don't think, right now, most non-horsey members of the public care about eventing that much. But if it were brought to their attention in a really negative way, then that could seriously impact the sport.

FWIW, I think things have changed even since the 90s/00s, which I believe is when most of the rider deaths that caused major safety improvements to be brought in happened.


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## MuddyMonster (7 May 2022)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			Still no XC to watch on Badminton TV… not impressed. A) they managed to upload dressage in a timely manner and B) if they’re editing it then I would just wait and watch the televised highlights…
		
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I think the difference is that by purchasing, the option to watch it live is there rather than just the condensed version offering on BBC (as well as footage from the whole event)

It is over 6 hours of footage to upload whereas dressage was much smaller chunks - it doesn't seem unreasonable even if not available until the next day IMHO. 

The BBC red button footage was never available immediately after it was first shown in precious years either. 

I think we're all just used to having things available immediately, if not sooner!


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

Actually I don't think a pin would have stopped Tom's fall. The horse was going so quick and big he more fell over his own feet trying to clear it. I think that would've happened even if the fence had collapsed.


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## LEC (7 May 2022)

The bounce fence was set up at vale view last week on sloping ground mocking up the Badminton version. The riders knew what was coming weeks in advance before they even set foot on the course. The terrain and intensity adds a lot to a course but the individual components had been practiced by a fair few.


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## pistolpete (7 May 2022)




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## SlinkyMinxy (7 May 2022)

MuddyMonster said:



			I think the difference is that by purchasing, the option to watch it live is there rather than just the condensed version offering on BBC (as well as footage from the whole event)

It is over 6 hours of footage to upload whereas dressage was much smaller chunks - it doesn't seem unreasonable even if not available until the next day IMHO.

The BBC red button footage was never available immediately after it was first shown in precious years either.

I think we're all just used to having things available immediately, if not sooner!
		
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But at least there was the option of recording the red button footage and watching it at a more convenient time. I paid my subscription this year but couldn't watch most of it live as I was busy and won't be able to see it now before the show-jumping and the final results are out. If I'd known that, I wouldn't have bothered to pay.


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			Statements like this made publicly by riders are exactly the ammunition that drives the agendas of those who do want the sport to end.
		
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So you'd prefer riders who are airing views about the falls and some instances of poor riding that they have seen at a major event to shut up, so that your sport can continue?

Times change. I'm no longer as comfortable seeing horses risk their all for human entertainment as I was. I am not campaigning for the sport to end, just stating that I'm not sure whether I enjoy it any more.

I've FJ'd, dressage scribed and time kept for eventing on and off for many years.


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## Kadastorm (7 May 2022)

I’m only up to Bens fall on that YouTube video and already some sickening falls 😱 truly hope Nicola and Dublin recover ok and that everyone else is feeling ok. Very scary falls there! Almost glad I didn’t pay to watch live as I don’t know if I would have managed it!


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## TPO (7 May 2022)

pistolpete said:









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That was sickening. So many crunched necks 😥 Couldn't watch it all and tbh didn't know what I'd clicked on, I thought it was highlights.

Had been a fan of Mollie Summmerland but didn't like how heavy handed she was with the whip at the water. Although I'll never ride 5* so undoubtedly shouldn't have an opinion

It seems very contradictory to claim to love, or at least hopefully respect, horses and then put them into those dangerous predicaments. Only sheer luck that a horse or rider wasn't killed today. Very sad and distressing state of affairs


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## Chianti (7 May 2022)

Just watched the video of the falls and it made me feel quite sick. Some of those falls were horrendous. Also - why are so many riders smacking their horses after they have refused and are then cantering away from the jump when they have jumped it on a second attempt? Is this meant to be a punishment or a teaching aid?


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## pistolpete (7 May 2022)

Wasn’t sure whether to share. I was pretty horrified too.


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## Rowreach (7 May 2022)

Patterdale said:



			Oh FFS this was clearly in relation to a comment about Toledo de Kerser’s fall.
		
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No, upthread I quoted you twice saying similar things.


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## MuddyMonster (7 May 2022)

SlinkyMinxy said:



			But at least there was the option of recording the red button footage and watching it at a more convenient time. I paid my subscription this year but couldn't watch most of it live as I was busy and won't be able to see it now before the show-jumping and the final results are out. If I'd known that, I wouldn't have bothered to pay.
		
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I've never had the option to record the red button so maybe I'm just used to this 🤣🤷‍♀️

I still think for less than £5 a day to watch  5 days of top class international competition is good value, even though I know I won't be able to catch up with XC before SJ is aired tomorrow (and I haven't seen all the dressage). I'll just stay away from FB etc before I've had the chance to view it tomorrow evening so the results aren't spoilt.


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## Spotherisk (7 May 2022)

Gosh having watched the YouTube video if I were a horse I wouldn’t want to be in Alex Braggs stable.


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

Spotherisk said:



			Gosh having watched the YouTube video if I were a horse I wouldn’t want to be in Alex Braggs stable.
		
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Where is it? I missed his round but always thought he sounded so lovely when commentating so sad to hear that.


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## PipsqueakXy22 (7 May 2022)

I thought the BBC usually had it up by 9 pm? Although I do appreciate that they probably have more high tech equipment.


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

Spotherisk said:



			Gosh having watched the YouTube video if I were a horse I wouldn’t want to be in Alex Braggs stable.
		
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I know.
When an eventing syndicate placed a young horse with Laura Collett I was very tempted to buy a share (one of those £65 a year syndicates, where you own a tail hair or whisker of the horse). So glad I didn't, as the horse is now with him.


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

Michen said:



			Where is it? I missed his round but always thought he sounded so lovely when commentating so sad to hear that.
		
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Very near the end I think - at around the 10 minutes marker.


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## Spotherisk (7 May 2022)

Michen said:



			Where is it? I missed his round but always thought he sounded so lovely when commentating so sad to hear that.
		
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very end of the YouTube video.  The horse knocked the frangible pin of the footbridge then shot off like a rocket, he gave it a few belts and the way it ran straight away made me think he was expecting it. Then he tipped off at a later fence, I think the horse went down - no pat, just a grab of the reins and walk off, didn’t even look at the horse.


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## Chianti (7 May 2022)

Spotherisk said:



			Gosh having watched the YouTube video if I were a horse I wouldn’t want to be in Alex Braggs stable.
		
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Was he number 90? I thought the same.


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

Spotherisk said:



			very end of the YouTube video.  The horse knocked the frangible pin of the footbridge then shot off like a rocket, he gave it a few belts and the way it ran straight away made me think he was expecting it. Then he tipped off at a later fence, I think the horse went down - no pat, just a grab of the reins and walk off, didn’t even look at the horse.
		
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Just saw it, actually I just noticed where he kind of elbowed the horse out of annoyance at the very end in the chest. Jeez


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

Spotherisk said:



			very end of the YouTube video.  The horse knocked the frangible pin of the footbridge then shot off like a rocket, he gave it a few belts and the way it ran straight away made me think he was expecting it. Then he tipped off at a later fence, I think the horse went down - no pat, just a grab of the reins and walk off, didn’t even look at the horse.
		
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The horse actually went down on his knees after the footbridge, and got rewarded for that with a couple of whacks.

(I admit that after that episode I was pleased he fell off later)


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## stangs (7 May 2022)

pistolpete said:









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Very upsetting watching.

Really struggled to watch those rotational falls; just the amount of impact, and surely damage, the horse's neck must be taking on is horrifying. Then Mollie Summerland with her disgusting use of the stick after a refusal. Absolutely no excuse for it. Ought to have been eliminated for that alone, rather than choosing to retire. Austrian horse looked lame after its refusal - rider didn't look like they had any intention of dismounting? And the cherry on the cake, nosebands looking too tight, and horses looking like they were really straining against them. Competition horses live such good lives, my foot.

ETA: was possibly too quick to judge the Austrian


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

stangs said:



			Very upsetting watching.

Really struggled to watch those rotational falls; just the amount of impact, and surely damage, the horse's neck must be taking on is horrifying. Then Mollie Summerland with her disgusting use of the stick after a refusal. Absolutely no excuse for it. Ought to have been eliminated for that alone, rather than choosing to retire. Austrian horse looked lame after its refusal - rider didn't look like they had any intention of dismounting? And the cherry on the cake, nosebands looking too tight, and horses looking like they were really straining against them. Competition horses live such good lives, my foot.
		
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I was disappointed with Mollie for that because the horse was looking tired and struggling quite a bit before the water. I've always really liked her from everything I've seen, hopefully just the pressure getting too much for her.


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## Cob Life (7 May 2022)

Surbie said:



			I found lots of the XC very difficult to watch - Nicola's fall, Swallow Springs and the total failure to check him after, and Vitorio du Montet who was struggling before that horrific fall. I wish more of the visibly struggling horses had been stopped.

That said, there were some lovely people to watch - Kylie Roddy was fab, Ros Canter and Alice Casburn. So pleased for Alice. I had a very brief chat with her at Burnham without knowing who she was and have since been rooting for her to succeed.
		
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I have to say I’m not OT biggest fan and it made me uncomfortable to see how Swallow Springs hit that fence and he carried on.  I didn’t see Vitorio du Montet.

but I really respect the riders that made the choice to pull up for their/their horses safety


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## Spotherisk (7 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			The horse actually went down on his knees after the footbridge, and got rewarded for that with a couple of whacks.

(I admit that after that episode I was pleased he fell off later)
		
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Me too!


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## Rowreach (7 May 2022)

Jeez how can anything be titled “best falls and refusals”??


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## Bellaboo18 (7 May 2022)

pistolpete said:









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We went today and luckily missed any falls but I just watched the start of this video and blimey Tom McEwen, what was he thinking 😱 he was never getting away with that. Very poor judgement. 
I wish they hadn't put Nicolas fall in there, very scary to see, I hope she's ok. 
We did see Olivers near dismount and wow he was just so calm, what ever happened he was staying on.


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## pistolpete (7 May 2022)

Rowreach said:



			Jeez how can anything be titled “best falls and refusals”??
		
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Horrible title to  glorify it in any way but it’s real and it happened. I did wonder whether to share.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

Love him or loathe him, Oli is an absolutely brilliant rider. How he sat that, I’ll never know. If you watch the slow mo, he stays balanced and upright, relative to the ground, throughout that, no matter what his horse was doing. Incredible riding.


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## RachelFerd (7 May 2022)

Rowreach said:



			Jeez how can anything be titled “best falls and refusals”??
		
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It's unpleassant watching out of context - I don't think it's terribly helpful/responsible to upload it in this way, trivialising the things that go wrong as fun entertainment. Much like those old thrills and spills tapes - the world has changed.

Would probably make sense to report and get these videos taken down from Youtube as copyright infringement anyway.


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## pistolpete (7 May 2022)

I didn’t watch to the end of those falls/refusals either. Too much for me. So sad. There will be much discussion by the powers that be of how the course rode. Wonder also about the reintroduction of the roads and tracks causing some tiredness?


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

pistolpete said:



			I didn’t watch to the end of those falls/refusals either. Too much for me. So sad. There will be much discussion by the powers that be of how the course rode. Wonder also about the reintroduction of the roads and tracks causing some tiredness?
		
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Reintroduction of roads and tracks? Eh?


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2022)

Piggy has said on her train with piggy video that Nicola is conscious and responding properly to what’s being asked and asking after Dubs 

Phew!!!


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## RachelFerd (7 May 2022)

Michen said:



			Reintroduction of roads and tracks? Eh?
		
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There was no reintroduction of roads and tracks. Not quite sure why people are just making rubbish up?!


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## teapot (7 May 2022)

RachelFerd said:



			There was no reintroduction of roads and tracks. Not quite sure why people are just making rubbish up?!
		
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@Michen it didn't help Badminton did a April Fool's post abot this...


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## Michen (7 May 2022)

RachelFerd said:



			There was no reintroduction of roads and tracks. Not quite sure why people are just making rubbish up?!
		
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I thought I was going mad then 🤣 

Bizarre


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

I think reintroduction of roads and tracks was an april fool put out by badminton on facebook this year.

It didn't actually happen.


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## pistolpete (7 May 2022)

teapot said:



@Michen it didn't help Badminton did a April Fool's post abot this...
		
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That must have been what I saw.


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## scats (7 May 2022)

Just watched that YouTube video. Horrible. Some absolutely horrific falls there.
That French horse was extremely distressing to watch. As someone stated earlier, it looked like Hickstead did when he died.
Nicola’s fall was horrific and what on earth was Tom thinking at that bounce. Emily King was very lucky that her horse didn’t run off while she was trapped by her stirrup. 
Oli clearly didn’t care if his horse was lame or hurt after that near miss. Just carried on. That was not good horsemanship at all and he ought to be ashamed of himself.


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## Honey08 (7 May 2022)

Just on my way home from Badminton.  It was a funny one.  When I walked it on Thursday I thought there were a lot of really easy fences, and actually a lot of falls sounded to have happened at those.  I actually wondered whether they were too easy and didn’t command enough respect?  The big beefy fences seemed to jump well.  The vicarage vee ditch fences were scary, but we had a picnic up there and watched loads go through without much problem.  It rewarded positive, forward, old fashioned Xc riding.  In contrast the solar farm bounce was hideous and I didn’t see many go through “comfortably”.  It just looked so narrow and had a blind approach.  Quite frankly an awful Xc fence, not what I would want to see as the future of XC.  And what was Tom thinking hurtling at it like that??


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## Malibu_Stacy (7 May 2022)

stangs said:



			Austrian horse looked lame after its refusal - rider didn't look like they had any intention of dismounting?
		
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tbf she put her hand up, and then got off about half a second after that clip ended. If you watch carefully after the horse baulks at the second jump, as he twists away you can see a back shoe fly off, and it’s the same leg the horse then takes the lame steps on; I really don’t think she could have reacted any faster than she did.


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

I think this is an interesting comment from the eventing nation write up

When two high-profile falls happen in such quick succession, it can give the impression of a particularly brutal day of cross-country, but with its 72.5% completion rate and 62.5% clear rate, Badminton’s influence on paper was much the same as it’s always been, and by the end of the day, a rather generous six horse-and-rider combinations had come home clear and inside the time.

https://eventingnation.com/laura-colletts-reign-continues-on-dramatic-badminton-cross-country-day/


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## RachelFerd (7 May 2022)

Malibu_Stacy said:



			tbf she put her hand up, and then got off about half a second after that clip ended. If you watch carefully after the horse baulks at the second jump, as he twists away you can see a back shoe fly off, and it’s the same leg the horse then takes the lame steps on; I really don’t think she could have reacted any faster than she did.
		
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She was off the horse very quickly - definitely a shoe issue - think it was actually coming off just before take off at the first egg box. I don't think she could have done anything differently.


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## Wishfilly (7 May 2022)

shortstuff99 said:



			I think this is an interesting comment from the eventing nation write up

When two high-profile falls happen in such quick succession, it can give the impression of a particularly brutal day of cross-country, but with its 72.5% completion rate and 62.5% clear rate, Badminton’s influence on paper was much the same as it’s always been, and by the end of the day, a rather generous six horse-and-rider combinations had come home clear and inside the time.

https://eventingnation.com/laura-colletts-reign-continues-on-dramatic-badminton-cross-country-day/

Click to expand...

It's not just those two falls though, it's the number of horse falls/rotational falls that feels high and that people are concerned about. Would be interesting to know how that compares to previous years.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2022)

I think the bounce fall was rider error. Toledo came in too flat and fast. Nicola Wilson also rode it on 5 strides but Dubs was less extravagant over the fences so bounced through nicely. Most horses came in on 6 and then it seemed to ride ok.
The fence Nicola fell at was causing problems but I’m not sure why. But was then removed. As far as I remember, all the falls were at different fences? So I think it was a tough but fair course. The Italian rider should have pulled his horse up. I think a dq or ban for ‘riding an unfit horse’ or ‘riding a horse to exhaustion’ or something would be better than giving the responsibility to fence judges. Riders need to be penalised for poor judgement on when enough is enough.  Bit subjective but so is ‘excessive use of the whip’.
Anyway just some random musings. I’m super inspired and I still love eventing! Best sport in the world.


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## shortstuff99 (7 May 2022)

Wishfilly said:



			It's not just those two falls though, it's the number of horse falls/rotational falls that feels high and that people are concerned about. Would be interesting to know how that compares to previous years.
		
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I think it is quite similar TBH. Here is a quote from 2010

There were a few horse falls, but that is — unfortunately — always going to be the reality of the sport, especially at the top level. The death of Louisa Lockwood’s mare, Desert Island, was obviously a sad low — and condolences to all her connections — but I don’t know the circumstances of the accident so I can’t comment on that.


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## fetlock (7 May 2022)

Wishfilly said:



			It's not just those two falls though, it's the number of horse falls/rotational falls that feels high and that people are concerned about. Would be interesting to know how that compares to previous years.
		
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Though there probably have been similar years, I can't actually remember one where I've watched so many incidents that could have ended in fatalaties during the one event. Two horses involved in rotational falls I was amazed came out of those intact without broken necks, then there was the French horse, and one rider laid out flat unconscious, plus the other the horse rolled over and who was then close to being dragged. For me, it didn't feel like a "normal" year, regardless of how many went round in the time, clear or completed compared to other years.


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## DirectorFury (7 May 2022)

shortstuff99 said:



			I think this is an interesting comment from the eventing nation write up

When two high-profile falls happen in such quick succession, it can give the impression of a particularly brutal day of cross-country, but with its 72.5% completion rate and 62.5% clear rate, Badminton’s influence on paper was much the same as it’s always been, and by the end of the day, a rather generous six horse-and-rider combinations had come home clear and inside the time.

https://eventingnation.com/laura-colletts-reign-continues-on-dramatic-badminton-cross-country-day/

Click to expand...

I don’t think those stats are actually reflective of what happened today though. Normally people will get 20 pens, or have a frangible, and retire because they know they’re not in contention for a win and want to save their horses for another day. Today people were going great guns until all of a sudden horse *and* rider were laid out on the floor. I’d much rather take a 50% completion rate where the other 50% retired after 20/40/60 pens over a 72% completion rate where 20% of the non-completions had horse falls! Though judging from some replies on this thread I’m clearly just too soft.

It would be more realistic to compare the number of retirements and number of eliminations imo, and also to actually count the number of horse falls.

Edit: as AE says, the falls *were* spread out across the course. So was there not enough use of frangible fences, were qualification criteria not strict enough, etc etc? IMO what matters now is how the eventing world responds to this to try and reduce the odds of the number of horse falls happening again. Something has gone wonky in the process this year, and it’s important that we look at it objectively before someone - human or horse - dies if there’s a repeat.


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## quiteniceforacob (7 May 2022)

shortstuff99 said:



			I think it is quite similar TBH. Here is a quote from 2010

There were a few horse falls, but that is — unfortunately — always going to be the reality of the sport, especially at the top level. The death of Louisa Lockwood’s mare, Desert Island, was obviously a sad low — and condolences to all her connections — but I don’t know the circumstances of the accident so I can’t comment on that.
		
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Hmm I think the difficulty I have is does it need to be the reality of the sport? Do we need to challenge combinations to the point of exhaustion and hospitalisation? We’re all here on this forum because we love our horses, so it’s sad that it’s the non-equestrian world that’s asking questions about horse welfare. How this appears to outsiders shouldn’t be the discussion, it should be “how do we continue this sport we love, while keeping every horse and rider safe”


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## neddy man (7 May 2022)

THANKS EVERYONE for a super update on today's xc.


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## SOS (7 May 2022)

Interestingly a similar conversation was had in 1999 where the safety of eventing was reviewed for the first time ever after a spate of human deaths. One of my early memories of Burghley is the horrific death of Caroline Pratt in 2004. I still adore the sport but understand we are watching the near impossible. Does that make it more thrilling to watch? Yes for many. Does that mean it’s ethical? Potentially not.

What do people propose though? Make it easier? Make times more lenient? Don’t event?
I don’t have the answer just wondering!


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## RachelFerd (7 May 2022)

quiteniceforacob said:



			Hmm I think the difficulty I have is does it need to be the reality of the sport? Do we need to challenge combinations to the point of exhaustion and hospitalisation? We’re all here on this forum because we love our horses, so it’s sad that it’s the non-equestrian world that’s asking questions about horse welfare. How this appears to outsiders shouldn’t be the discussion, it should be “how do we continue this sport we love, while keeping every horse and rider safe”
		
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1 person in hospital and one winded horse is quite a lot less drama than your average teamchase.... Not a justification, just a comment!


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## neddy man (7 May 2022)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			BBC 2, 2pm
		
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My paper guide says 2:15 till 4:30  on screen shows 2:30 till 4:30  so 2pm start to be safe, XC will only show till about 3:30 then the showjumping section will be showing the top 10 horses.


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## Lexi_ (7 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			I don’t think those stats are actually reflective of what happened today though. Normally people will get 20 pens, or have a frangible, and retire because they know they’re not in contention for a win and want to save their horses for another day. Today people were going great guns until all of a sudden horse *and* rider were laid out on the floor. I’d much rather take a 50% completion rate where the other 50% retired after 20/40/60 pens over a 72% completion rate where 20% of the non-completions had horse falls! Though judging from some replies on this thread I’m clearly just too soft.

It would be more realistic to compare the number of retirements and number of eliminations imo, and also to actually count the number of horse falls.

Edit: as AE says, the falls *were* spread out across the course. So was there not enough use of frangible fences, were qualification criteria not strict enough, etc etc? IMO what matters now is how the eventing world responds to this to try and reduce the odds of the number of horse falls happening again. Something has gone wonky in the process this year, and it’s important that we look at it objectively before someone - human or horse - dies if there’s a repeat.
		
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Yes, I’d be interested to see the variety of non-completion reasons, as well as some analysis from the experts about the course construction & design and whether they think that had any impact on a few of the falls.

To my mind, it felt about the same amount of total falls as normal, but usually there are more much rider only falls than horse falls. This year that wasn’t the case and there were a few very dramatic horse and rider rotationals in the first half of the draw which perhaps made things seem worse than they were? In other years you’d get horses leaving a leg and the result would be an uncomfortable twisting jump and the rider coming off after the fence (much like Ben Hobday did today) rather than the crashing rotationals that Nicola & Emily had. Perhaps it’s course construction? Perhaps it’s bad luck? I’m not inclined to think either of those falls were due to tired horses because they were both having fantastic rounds up till that point.

Not really sure that they could have put more frangibles on course without making every single fence out of poles. They did their jobs at several fences but you can’t have them everywhere. Perhaps it was more to do with distances/groundlines/too many efforts across the whole course that contributed more to the falls at the later combos?

Fwiw, I thought Tom’s fall was rider error. Going at that speed into a 5* bounce fence, whatever it’s made from, is only going to end in trouble.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (8 May 2022)

Just seen the Oli Townend one, he didn't even check he was sound just booted him away, Rachel Blackmore got flamed for doing the same on a horse that sprawled on landing at Cheltenham, she at least had the decency to trot a few strides first.

I know he would have felt if badly unsound but...


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## teapot (8 May 2022)

Just my musings that I'd be considering before waving the 'too harsh' flags

- We've not had 5* eventing for the best part of three years. Unless you follow the sport properly, Luhmuhlen and Pau can actually pass most people by, both courses cause scrappy run outs, horses banking fences, twisty, turning courses, which imho aren't necessarily any more pleasant to watch. Kentucky is 4* fences on 5* lines (as per Lucinda Green), Bicton was a one off, and Maryland has only run once causing zero issues. Have people forgotten the attrition rate of Burghey 19? Results here: http://www.bdwp.co.uk/bur/19/

- Tokyo was a dressage/sj comp

- Euros were a dressage/sj comp

- Kentucky always lulls people in - there were zero horse falls last week so watching xc twice in a week, Badminton always feels worse (and I wish MJ had been at Badminton, not Kentucky).

- Badminton's meant to be the toughest course in the world - one mistake should (in theory) filter out the best of the best. You shouldn't (in theory) be making mistakes over the biggest fences in the world, it can potentially kill you (see also the mm of lenience of mistakes in F1).  Tom's speed saved him and the horse in some ways as they just kept going albeit on the ground.

- It was telling the first timers had better runs or showed better horsemanship... It was the seasoned pros having issues on GOOD horses.

- I think Eric Winter said he hadn't strided too many lines, it was to be ridden by feel. Has the art of riding xc by feel been lost?

- Not one of those horses would have jumped into crowds that deep in three years, don't underestimate the impact that could have. Even riders saying I looked for my marker and couldn't see it...

- Problems spread all over the course - that's a good course and again a true 5* of having to be on it from the start box to the finish.


I thought today was a return of a sport I love, and all horses got up super quickly. The French horse was the only one I truly winced at and thought it was a goner. That fall was no fault of the course either.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (8 May 2022)

Can't say Alexander Bragg came across well in that compilation either...


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## TheOldTrout (8 May 2022)

Is there any formal rebuke for the (French??) rider who rode his horse til it fell, exhausted? An American rider got red carded a few years ago for doing this, so surely there should be some consistency.


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## ycbm (8 May 2022)

I don't know much about Badminton these days but surely somebody should be watching each round on a monitor and able to call a halt  if they see a horse is struggling?  Fence judges see only one fence,  it can't be left to them.  Does this happen? 

I am less and less in favour of using live animals in top level sport as I get older and reading about this Badminton has increased that.  
.


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## Steerpike (8 May 2022)

Having just seen the clip of Oliver Townsend riding his grey over 'that' fence I'm still not liking him, he didn't seem too worried they both nearly hit the deck I found it uncomfortable viewing,  I think the horse sporting community ( I say that as ALL disciplines have to do this) has to been seen to be high on welfare otherwise there will come a time in the not too distant future when we may not be able to participate in sports with our horses.


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## J&S (8 May 2022)

Rowreach said:



			Jeez how can anything be titled “best falls and refusals”??
		
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This was what I was shocked about.........and such very upsetting content.


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## scats (8 May 2022)

Steerpike said:



			Having just seen the clip of Oliver Townsend riding his grey over 'that' fence I'm still not liking him, he didn't seem too worried they both nearly hit the deck I found it uncomfortable viewing,  I think the horse sporting community ( I say that as ALL disciplines have to do this) has to been seen to be high on welfare otherwise there will come a time in the not too distant future when we may not be able to participate in sports with our horses.
		
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I’d be surprised if it’s sound this morning.  My horse slipped coming out the stable last year.  Fairly innocuous, back legs just went as she spooked at my mum. She barely missed a stride and just carried on walking, so I thought nothing of it and loaded her for her lesson.
After about 10 minutes under saddle, despite doing everything I asked, it became apparent she wasn’t quite happy.  Swishy tailed and backing off. 
Ended up getting the vet out and although she was sound, the vet said she’d likely pulled herself and to give her a few days rest.
That was nothing compared to Oli’s horse, but it’s made me hyper aware of checking her after even the smallest slip.


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## Steerpike (8 May 2022)

I think you could be right, if it was my horse I would not put him forward for the jumping.


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## Wishfilly (8 May 2022)

SOS said:



			Interestingly a similar conversation was had in 1999 where the safety of eventing was reviewed for the first time ever after a spate of human deaths. One of my early memories of Burghley is the horrific death of Caroline Pratt in 2004. I still adore the sport but understand we are watching the near impossible. Does that make it more thrilling to watch? Yes for many. Does that mean it’s ethical? Potentially not.

What do people propose though? Make it easier? Make times more lenient? Don’t event?
I don’t have the answer just wondering!
		
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Personally, for me- given that this is the first year back after a 3 year absence, I would have maybe made the course a tiny bit easier- perhaps considered the technicality at the end, or perhaps put a few more frangible pins in at the end of the course. Maybe also made the time a tiny bit more lenient so people weren't pushing quite as hard at the end of the course.

I'd also have as @ycbm suggested one person monitoring all the footage with responsibility for pulling up tired horses or where there are welfare issues.

I'd also look at the qualification process and make sure it is adequate- although as many have said, most of the falls were experienced riders really pushing for time at the end of the course, rather than those with less experience. But maybe some of the more experienced combinations were lacking match practice over this level of course?



teapot said:



			Just my musings that I'd be considering before waving the 'too harsh' flags

- We've not had 5* eventing for the best part of three years. Unless you follow the sport properly, Luhmuhlen and Pau can actually pass most people by, both courses cause scrappy run outs, horses banking fences, twisty, turning courses, which imho aren't necessarily any more pleasant to watch. Kentucky is 4* fences on 5* lines (as per Lucinda Green), Bicton was a one off, and Maryland has only run once causing zero issues. Have people forgotten the attrition rate of Burghey 19? Results here: http://www.bdwp.co.uk/bur/19/

- Tokyo was a dressage/sj comp

- Euros were a dressage/sj comp

- Kentucky always lulls people in - there were zero horse falls last week so watching xc twice in a week, Badminton always feels worse (and I wish MJ had been at Badminton, not Kentucky).

- Badminton's meant to be the toughest course in the world - one mistake should (in theory) filter out the best of the best. You shouldn't (in theory) be making mistakes over the biggest fences in the world, it can potentially kill you (see also the mm of lenience of mistakes in F1).  Tom's speed saved him and the horse in some ways as they just kept going albeit on the ground.

- It was telling the first timers had better runs or showed better horsemanship... It was the seasoned pros having issues on GOOD horses.

- I think Eric Winter said he hadn't strided too many lines, it was to be ridden by feel. Has the art of riding xc by feel been lost?

- Not one of those horses would have jumped into crowds that deep in three years, don't underestimate the impact that could have. Even riders saying I looked for my marker and couldn't see it...

- Problems spread all over the course - that's a good course and again a true 5* of having to be on it from the start box to the finish.


I thought today was a return of a sport I love, and all horses got up super quickly. The French horse was the only one I truly winced at and thought it was a goner. That fall was no fault of the course either.
		
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I agree with a lot of your points, about the events that have run over the past few years, the lack of crowds etc. But to me, that should have been taken into consideration when designing the course.

To some extent, riding by feel at 5* possibly has been lost if there haven't been any other courses testing it in the same way in three years? Even for experienced combinations.

Agree the French rider's fall was not the fault of the course as such, but arguably he should have been pulled up- the organisers surely do have to make some responsibility for horse welfare?



Steerpike said:



			Having just seen the clip of Oliver Townsend riding his grey over 'that' fence I'm still not liking him, he didn't seem too worried they both nearly hit the deck I found it uncomfortable viewing,  I think the horse sporting community ( I say that as ALL disciplines have to do this) has to been seen to be high on welfare otherwise there will come a time in the not too distant future when we may not be able to participate in sports with our horses.
		
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I do agree it was not pleasant to watch- I guess he made a split second decision when his adrenaline would have been very high. He did seem to jump straight as soon as the hold on course was announced and was held for long enough that I'm sure he/his groom would have picked up any soundness issues present at that time.

But I do think there are multiple horses today who could have suffered really severe consequences for their rider making the wrong decision in the moment, and that to me is not acceptable.


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## TPO (8 May 2022)

I find it even more upsetting to see posts about a "fair course" and "love the sport" continuing when it's only by sheer luck that there were no deaths. There were sickening falls and yet, just like the Grand National, it's expected that horses will fall, get hurt or worse and "that's the nature of the sport".

There's a few well shared fb posts doing the rounds about how naysayers don't have a clue, how great  badders was/is and with a reply in the comment section thats its uninformed obese people on armchairs who can't clear an 80 fence spouting rubbish. With the usual dose of "these event horses will be looked after like royalty and better than any of the naysayers horses" tripe.

As if you need to get to 5* to have any empathy for the horses or an understanding of horsemanship and even if that was the case apparently that gets shelved when it comes to the crunch. Great shop front for the sport to vilify anyone concerned about equine welfare.

Oh it's the first proper 5* in 3yrs, oh it's this, oh it's that. Must have missed the part where the horses signed up to put their necks on the line in the name of sport 😏 There are going to be a lot of very sore, if not permanently damaged, horses today but it's an amazing sport ya know...


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## typekitty (8 May 2022)

Are they broadcasting the vet inspection this morning? Was hoping to see something on Facebook.


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## Sandstone1 (8 May 2022)

TPO said:



			I find it even more upsetting to see posts about a "fair course" and "love the sport" continuing when it's only by sheer luck that there were no deaths. There were sickening falls and yet, just like the Grand National, it's expected that horses will fall, get hurt or worse and "that's the nature of the sport".

There's a few well shared fb posts doing the rounds about how naysayers don't have a clue, how great  badders was/is and with a reply in the comment section thats its uninformed obese people on armchairs who can't clear an 80 fence spouting rubbish. With the usual dose of "these event horses will be looked after like royalty and better than any of the naysayers horses" tripe.

As if you need to get to 5* to have any empathy for the horses or an understanding of horsemanship and even if that was the case apparently that gets shelved when it comes to the crunch. Great shop front for the sport to vilify anyone concerned about equine welfare.

Oh it's the first proper 5* in 3yrs, oh it's this, oh it's that. Must have missed the part where the horses signed up to put their necks on the line in the name of sport 😏 There are going yo be a lot of very sore, if not permanently damaged, horses today but it's an amazing sport ya know...
		
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Well said.


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## HashRouge (8 May 2022)

Steerpike said:



			Having just seen the clip of Oliver Townsend riding his grey over 'that' fence I'm still not liking him, he didn't seem too worried they both nearly hit the deck I found it uncomfortable viewing,  I think the horse sporting community ( I say that as ALL disciplines have to do this) has to been seen to be high on welfare otherwise there will come a time in the not too distant future when we may not be able to participate in sports with our horses.
		
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Same here. I generally quite like Oli, but I found that very uncomfortable watching and I cannot believe that the horse was able to complete the course after that. And frankly, I don't think he should have been expected to.

The problem is though, that when horses are your business, you do see and treat them differently. I'm not saying that these top professionals don't treat their horses well, btw, but ultimately it is their job and to a certain extent horse welfare will always be sacrificed slightly to that.


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## Malibu_Stacy (8 May 2022)

typekitty said:



			Are they broadcasting the vet inspection this morning? Was hoping to see something on Facebook.
		
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It’s on Badminton TV, live now.  Everything presented excepted until I think it was Hector Payne & Dynasty, who’ve gone to the hold box. Quite a few withdrawals, mainly Irish riders.  William, Oli, Ros, Piggy, Kitty’s all accepted.


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## Malibu_Stacy (8 May 2022)

Jonelle & Molly accepted


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## Malibu_Stacy (8 May 2022)

break for Carjatan S’s groom to get the best looked after horse award - well deserved with a grey!


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## typekitty (8 May 2022)

Malibu_Stacy said:



			It’s on Badminton TV, live now.  Everything presented excepted until I think it was Hector Payne & Dynasty, who’ve gone to the hold box. Quite a few withdrawals, mainly Irish riders.  William, Oli, Ros, Piggy, Kitty’s all accepted.
		
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Thank you! Found they are presenting it on Badminton Radio, too, for anyone without a pass.


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## Fred66 (8 May 2022)

On the Horse Falls there appear to have been 7 and with the exception of PiPad Funnell they were all towards the end of the course. This smacks of the questions at the end being too technical for tired horses and possibly course builders  need to look at what combinations they use towards the end.


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## Malibu_Stacy (8 May 2022)

London 52 accepted, so all of top 10 will be jumping.


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## LEC (8 May 2022)

I think the roll tops at the end will be changed. They were an innocuous fence but I think it was piggy who said they sucked you in a lot more than you expected. Just the use of terrain and I would say riders being slightly complacent on a rounded profile on a tired horse. All left a leg. Funnily enough the house after  pagoda riders respected a lot more and rode it better. 
hazel Shannons was insane, horse just shrank as the ditch wasn’t very big. They have won 3 x 5* as well….. 
The baskets interested me the most, I walked it and again a fence you wouldn’t expect to cause issues but again horses left a toe or leg. Ground line? The topline wasn’t clear enough? Who knows but they will go back and watch the footage to make improvements. 
Maximes horse looked similar at Pau but came out fine on SJ and didn’t tip up. I bet we see if come out fitter next time just like David Doel did with his horses after his fitness programme showed up clear issues at Bicton 4*. I have read a lot which said Maximes horse was fine 2 from home but they got really weary. I guess you hope you can nurse it home. 
There is a big conundrum. The riding at GR badminton was pretty dire in places but it’s 90/100 so a scopey horse gets away with it. 5* needs to test and some of the riders failed that today with mistakes.


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## Supertrooper (8 May 2022)

Having now watched some of the falls and frankly near misses…….

I’m definitely generally not an OT fan but as he was dangling around the horses neck he had a pretty good view of his back legs and he did also look under. It was fairly obvious as soon as the horse galloped away that he was sound and he’s been accepted today so all was ok 

More upsetting I feel was horse at final fence (that’s as far as I watched tbh) who was obviously tired and I’d of hoped things would have been learnt from the last time a tired horse fell there!!


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## Steerpike (8 May 2022)

HashRouge said:



			Same here. I generally quite like Oli, but I found that very uncomfortable watching and I cannot believe that the horse was able to complete the course after that. And frankly, I don't think he should have been expected to.

The problem is though, that when horses are your business, you do see and treat them differently. I'm not saying that these top professionals don't treat their horses well, btw, but ultimately it is their job and to a certain extent horse welfare will always be sacrificed slightly to that.
		
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Horses are my business and I do treat them as my own, I am very lucky to have an owner who has and will always put the horses welfare first.


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## fankino04 (8 May 2022)

Crazy_cat_lady said:



			Can't say Alexander Bragg came across well in that compilation either...
		
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I used to really like him, he was entertaining to watch ride across courses ( very like Tim and jonelle) and always came across well in interviews but that clip has really put me off him, I'm sure there was a flash of anger that he had come off and looked like he was about to sock the horse in the mouth with the bit but stopped himself as in public, obviously could be totally misreading that and of course emotions run high in situations like that but that's the way I read what I saw.


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## Wishfilly (8 May 2022)

TPO said:



			I find it even more upsetting to see posts about a "fair course" and "love the sport" continuing when it's only by sheer luck that there were no deaths. There were sickening falls and yet, just like the Grand National, it's expected that horses will fall, get hurt or worse and "that's the nature of the sport".

There's a few well shared fb posts doing the rounds about how naysayers don't have a clue, how great  badders was/is and with a reply in the comment section thats its uninformed obese people on armchairs who can't clear an 80 fence spouting rubbish. With the usual dose of "these event horses will be looked after like royalty and better than any of the naysayers horses" tripe.

As if you need to get to 5* to have any empathy for the horses or an understanding of horsemanship and even if that was the case apparently that gets shelved when it comes to the crunch. Great shop front for the sport to vilify anyone concerned about equine welfare.

Oh it's the first proper 5* in 3yrs, oh it's this, oh it's that. Must have missed the part where the horses signed up to put their necks on the line in the name of sport 😏 There are going to be a lot of very sore, if not permanently damaged, horses today but it's an amazing sport ya know...
		
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Interestingly, Laura Collett on her facebook post described it as the toughest XC track she has ever seen. And I felt from Piggy's comentary yesterday, that she felt it was a very tough test. 

I've seen some similar posts, and I think people need to remember that these big events wouldn't happen without the spectators/fans so our opinions do hold weight too.


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## fetlock (8 May 2022)

fankino04 said:



			I used to really like him, he was entertaining to watch ride across courses ( very like Tim and jonelle) and always came across well in interviews but that clip has really put me off him, I'm sure there was a flash of anger that he had come off and looked like he was about to sock the horse in the mouth with the bit but stopped himself as in public, obviously could be totally misreading that and of course emotions run high in situations like that but that's the way I read what I saw.
		
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From his FB page just now


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## OrangeAndLemon (8 May 2022)

I'm going to give OT the benefit of the doubt. I trust he's a good horseman who would have felt any issue from the jump and would have pulled his horse up. 

I saw him at Bramham when he felt something wrong before a fence, immediately stopped, jumped off while the horse was still moving and was shouting for the horse ambulance to be brought right up to the horse, and stayed with the horse to make sure it was slowly & safely loaded and taken back for checks.


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## Supertrooper (8 May 2022)

Wishfilly said:



			Interestingly, Laura Collett on her facebook post described it as the toughest XC track she has ever seen. And I felt from Piggy's comentary yesterday, that she felt it was a very tough test.

I've seen some similar posts, and I think people need to remember that these big events wouldn't happen without the spectators/fans so our opinions do hold weight too.
		
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I watched Piggy’s clip post XC and I thought the same, she was definitely saying it was a very tough test


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## Supertrooper (8 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			From his FB page just now


View attachment 92257

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Not a brilliant response


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## Wishfilly (8 May 2022)

Fred66 said:



			On the Horse Falls there appear to have been 7 and with the exception of PiPad Funnell they were all towards the end of the course. This smacks of the questions at the end being too technical for tired horses and possibly course builders  need to look at what combinations they use towards the end.
		
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Yes, I think those fences placed earlier in the course wouldn't have necessarily caused the same issues. I'm not saying that the last fences should all be straight forward, but perhaps the type of problem they would cause needs to be considered?


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## LEC (8 May 2022)

Wishfilly said:



			Yes, I think those fences placed earlier in the course wouldn't have necessarily caused the same issues. I'm not saying that the last fences should all be straight forward, but perhaps the type of problem they would cause needs to be considered?
		
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The whole point of having these questions is to test the riders ability to balance the horse when it’s tired and ride appropriately. The questions were all appropriate for their place in the course. The baskets as I have mentioned will be very likely reviewed. The roll tops probably wont as a fence later the riders all rode tired horses very well at a technical fence as they all respected it.


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## fetlock (8 May 2022)

Update on Nicola

https://nicolawilsoneventing.co.uk/...eV34J2O68lo8QDN5vcLhLCfer21XmEkhbG19FYjItjURE


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## Supertrooper (8 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			Update on Nicola

https://nicolawilsoneventing.co.uk/...eV34J2O68lo8QDN5vcLhLCfer21XmEkhbG19FYjItjURE

View attachment 92262

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I’m so glad she’s awake and this sounds promising


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## scats (8 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			Update on Nicola

https://nicolawilsoneventing.co.uk/...eV34J2O68lo8QDN5vcLhLCfer21XmEkhbG19FYjItjURE

View attachment 92262

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Thank god for that.  She was absolutely out cold after that fall.


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## DirectorFury (8 May 2022)

Having looked at the numbers of fallers etc I guess this year wasn't that exceptional. I don't remember seeing so many rotationals or so many falls where I was surprised that the horse got back up and walked off sound but I guess the 2 year gap has made my memory hazy. It was still uncomfortable viewing.

I've no appetite to go hunting for the footage of the falls but it'd be interesting to see the horse and rider falls per year broken down into a) rotationals and b) type of fence (solid or pinned).


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## Supertrooper (8 May 2022)

So actually 2018 was worse in a way, can’t remember that far back unfortunately 🤔🤣


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## Lexi_ (8 May 2022)

Those 2018 figures are surprising! I don’t really remember much about that year’s event.


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## fetlock (8 May 2022)

Supertrooper said:



			So actually 2018 was worse in a way, can’t remember that far back unfortunately 🤔🤣
		
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If you have the stomach for it, you may find it on Youtube.
The "best falls and refusal" person, who posted this years I saw also did one for 2016, so may have done it for all the years inbetween. Re the 2016 footage, most of the falls I think were upon landing after the footbridge, and no rotational ones.

Edited:  just gone looking and they have videos for 2016, 2017 and 2019 but none for 2018.


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## Supertrooper (8 May 2022)

Would be great if anyone can recall that far back


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## teapot (8 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			Those 2018 figures are surprising! I don’t really remember much about that year’s event.
		
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Results by fence for 2018 can found on this page:

https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-results-2018/


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## DirectorFury (8 May 2022)

The 2018 fence-by-fence results are here: https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-fence-analysis-2018/ (The code "HZ" means horse fall)
I guess the biggest difference is that, aside from Piggy French, all of the horse fallers weren't the people right at the top of the sport, unlike yesterday.


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## DirectorFury (8 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			If you have the stomach for it, you may find it on Youtube.
The "best falls and refusal" person, who posted this years I saw also did one for 2016, so may have done it for all the years inbetween. Re the 2016 footage, most of the falls I think were upon landing after the footbridge, and no rotational ones.

Edited:  just gone looking and they have videos for 2016, 2017 and 2019 but none for 2018.
		
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I've just had a look on Youtube and there's pretty much no footage/clips from BHT 2018 on there. The plus side of paying for Badminton TV is that the full 2018 cross country should be on there so I'll have a look later.


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## Ambers Echo (8 May 2022)

TPO said:



			I find it even more upsetting to see posts about a "fair course" and "love the sport" continuing when it's only by sheer luck that there were no deaths. There were sickening falls and yet, just like the Grand National, it's expected that horses will fall, get hurt or worse and "that's the nature of the sport".

There's a few well shared fb posts doing the rounds about how naysayers don't have a clue, how great  badders was/is and with a reply in the comment section thats its uninformed obese people on armchairs who can't clear an 80 fence spouting rubbish. With the usual dose of "these event horses will be looked after like royalty and better than any of the naysayers horses" tripe.

As if you need to get to 5* to have any empathy for the horses or an understanding of horsemanship and even if that was the case apparently that gets shelved when it comes to the crunch. Great shop front for the sport to vilify anyone concerned about equine welfare.

Oh it's the first proper 5* in 3yrs, oh it's this, oh it's that. Must have missed the part where the horses signed up to put their necks on the line in the name of sport 😏 There are going to be a lot of very sore, if not permanently damaged, horses today but it's an amazing sport ya know...
		
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I understand this point of view and I certainly don't dismiss it as obese fluffy bunny cluelessness. Nor that top level horses are treated well all the time. I think people expressing concerns about the ethics of horse sport have a perfectly valid perspective on it. I admit I am conflicted about this. But then I think human relationships with animals in general is a rabbit warren of contradictions. I love animals and I love meat. I love horses, I love competitive sport and I particularly love competitive horse sport. I also see that horse sport is ethically questionable. But then so is raising animals for slaughter, live export of animals, animals used in science/ medicine/clothing. That train of thought takes you to a PETA view of the world in which no animal should ever be exploited in the interests of humans. Unless you go there, then you are essentially deciding that it is about where you - personally - draw the line. Plant based diet? Vegetarianism? Lab grown meat? Improved welfare standards in the meal industry? Banning certain practices in horse sport and training? Banning high level horse sport? Banning all horse sport? Banning all horse riding?

Of course, top pros don't treat their animals like pets - they are athletes, depended on to make a living and a times pushed to extremes. But I also think horses can't perform well if they are unhealthy or mentally overwhelmed. Especially in eventing where tension would show up in dressage. I don't think a horse becomes a top eventer without natural courage/boldness and without trust in their rider - so relationships between horse and rider develop over time. Lottie has super-happy ears, pricked and alert and keen, when we go out. I am convinced she enjoys it. I don't think that is anthropomorphism. She is very expressive about what she does and does not like. 

I am also unsure about what the unintended consequences would be of stopping using horses for jobs that they have not consented to- including in sport-  and leaving them purely as pets/leisure. People have said that the loss of horses in working roles has led to a disconnect between horse and human and therefore huge ignorance among horse owners and a lowering of standards of horse welfare due to that ignorance. I have huge gaps in my knowlege and understanding but even I am gobsmacked at how ignorant many horse owners are about the basics of horse behaviour. Experts who can educate others become experts because they dedicate their lives to understanding and training horses. I am not sure going even further down that road of horse being pets only would help them at a population level. And if they are not going to be pets but some will be athletes, to separate the best from the rest is always going to need them to perform at very high levels. Which will always put them at risk of injury or exhaustion.

At the end of the day, if I were able to choose what kind of horse I'd come back in a future life, I think I could do a lot worse than to come back as a Badminton horse.


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## linka (8 May 2022)

So, I'm catching up the middle section of yesterday's xc and in the replay Nicola Wilson's fall is edited out but the long hold is not (presumably for all the chat/atmos?!) I do wonder whether the "stable" report actually accommodates some fairly serious injury there which thankfully she has survived.


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## PipsqueakXy22 (8 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			From his FB page just now


View attachment 92257

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pretty standard response isn’t it? Not sure how this justifies being harsh with the horse on course, does getting the best attention (as should be expected of a horse having just gone round a 5* course) justify elbowing it out of anger


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## linka (8 May 2022)

PipsqueakXy22 said:



			pretty standard response isn’t it? Not sure how this justifies being harsh with the horse on course, does getting the best attention (as should be expected of a horse having just gone round a 5* course) justify elbowing it out of anger
		
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I did not like the look of his actions at all, but I do think the elbow was a response to the horse hustling forward downhill a bit fast on leaving the track. Definitely unpleasant, but you can see how they can present it as about safety.


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## fetlock (8 May 2022)

The general quality of this SJ livestream is pants. It's knocking me dizzy.


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## PipsqueakXy22 (8 May 2022)

I don’t expect top level riders to treat their horses like pets they are competition horses after all, and like for instance Oliver Townends blip with Swallow springs I can understand why he would spur him on as they are against a clock, but I also feel like there are some things that are so easily avoidable, like pulling up an exhausted horse or not punching your horse because you fell off… and actually when I think about it e of my favourite event riders are Pippa funnel and piggy French, I don’t believe I have ever seen him be mean or angry to their horses…? They only use the whip when necessary, yes sometimes a few smacks but not over the top, aren’t afraid to retire like Pippa did with hers yesterday, and whenever they fall off they have a laugh give the horse a pet and make sure they’re ok. These two also won Badminton and Budghely in 2019. So I think just goes to show you can be respectful of your horses and still be successful.


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## DirectorFury (8 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			The general quality of this SJ livestream is pants. It's knocking me dizzy.
		
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This is what it was like on dressage day for me, I'd prefer no live stream to this quality - it makes you feel sea sick.


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## Ambers Echo (8 May 2022)

Pipsqueak,  agree. I think most riders genuinely love their horses and treat them with kindness and respect. And also expect a lot of them and put them at risk which is another contradiciton. I love Amber and I am putting her at risk by breeding her. Yet another contradiction. Human-animal relationships are very contradictory in all areas. Not just eventing. 

And I agree there needs to be either strengthening or proper enforcement of a 'tired horse' rule.


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## fetlock (8 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			This is what it was like on dressage day for me, I'd prefer no live stream to this quality - it makes you feel sea sick.
		
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It really does. I have trouble with focus at the best of times so was wondering if it was just me.


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## Tiddlypom (8 May 2022)

Jerky SJ footage for me, too. Wish they'd keep the horse and rider name up for the duration plus display the time. The time is quite tight, but you only see after the round what the time was/any time faults.

Swallow Springs looked really good at the trot up, so his glance off can't have hurt him too much.

ETA 7 horses withdrawn overnight after the XC. 3 horses held after first trot up but all passed after a 2nd look. Long discussion over John the Bull, but allowed through.


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## fetlock (8 May 2022)

Looking like time penalties in the SJ are going to be really influential.


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## DirectorFury (8 May 2022)

The live stream seems smoother now after I dropped the quality down, hopefully they've sorted it!

It's really nice to see so many horses coming out really fresh after the hard XC yesterday


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## Lexi_ (8 May 2022)

They seem to have rediscovered the live score & timing graphic too 🎉


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## Tiddlypom (8 May 2022)

And they've found their commentators - the early horses went round with barely any commentary! Up to expected broadcast standards now.

Felicity Collins and RSH Contend OR are the first to be clear inside the time.


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## teapot (8 May 2022)

Clearly @Tiddlypom has powers!


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## Tiddlypom (8 May 2022)

*accepts fully deserved plaudits gracefully* 🤣🤣🤣


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## Lexi_ (8 May 2022)

The young riders have looked great today. I really enjoyed Bubby Upton’s SJ round too.


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## Michen (8 May 2022)

Sounds awful but I don’t want London 52 to win it much as I think he’s amazing.  Really want one of the true gutsy  XC horses too that didn’t get by on a prayer. 

Ros young horse would be an amazing achievement.


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## teapot (8 May 2022)

So only one clear inside the time for the morning session!


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

So some of the things I found interesting about xc;

A lot of the first timers seemed to do better than experienced riders, I was very impressed by Ariel Grald, who completed her first 5* and looked to have a good round once her horse settled and rode well.
Could it be that some of the first timers were just more cautious and prepared to be cautious than the experienced riders this time round?

There were some unfortunate falls that were just unfortunate - Hazel Shannon comes to mind as her horse just seemed to hesitate too much at the ditch and then fall over it. Maybe she could have pushed him forward more, but it looked like the horse just came in and hung in the air and was looking too much into the drop on the other side. Any other fence, and I’m sure she would have gotten away with the horse backing off a bit. Interestingly, I think before his fall Alex Bragg had a similar problem where the horse just looked into the ditch at the V and got lucky as the pins fell.

Cathal Daniels fall was horrible to watch, but looks as if Barichello may have slipped on take off or just misjudged his take off point because of the , they were both very lucky. It was the same fence Emily King fell at, where the horse just left a leg. 

Tom McEwen’s fall was pure rider error, Toledo had been forward and jumping massively and TM just didn’t seem to adjust him for it properly.

The French horse (I cannot remember his name) was a hideous rider judgement on a tired horse. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a red card come out of that.

I do feel a bit for Ben Hobday, it looks like the horse left a leg, unseated him and he just toppled off the side. I’m sure he’s kicking himself as he’s probably sat to much worse but we all have those moments of ‘I really should have sat that’.

I didn’t see Pippa’s fall or the other fall by the American (?) girl so have nonidesnwhar

I do think this being the first Badminton in 3 years, with a sold out crowd played a big part in it. Horses that have competed over the last 2/3 years with smaller or no crowds probably did find it a different experience, combined with a tough, full up 5* course. I’m not surprised horses were withdrawn before the jumping phase today. It was also nice to see riders retiring horses who weren’t enjoying the trip rather than pushing them round a few more fences. 

I do think XC should be technical, and should have questions for both horse and rider but not to the point it causes serious horse falls. I don’t enjoy eventing as much when it turns into a dressage and showjumping competition, and I do think so many of the top riders after dressage having falls or penalties did give a good indication on how the course was riding. 

I’m going to be interested to see how many riders are handed warnings, red and yellow cards after XC.


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

To add as well, very impressed with Ariel Grald’s jumping round and think she’s going to be someone to watch out for in the future


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## RachelFerd (8 May 2022)

sasquatch said:



			To add as well, very impressed with Ariel Grald’s jumping round and think she’s going to be someone to watch out for in the future
		
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Arial Grald has been round Burghley and Luhmuhlen once (oh, and Kentucky too) with that horse - quite a long way from a 5* first-timer - although I agree she was super!


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## Chianti (8 May 2022)

Anyone interested in the use of horses in high level competition might want to read 'I Can't watch Anymore' by Julie Taylor. It's an open letter to the IOC as to why horses shouldn't be included in the Olympic games but it relates to all high level competitions. It mainly discusses how horses are managed in order to compete in dressage and show jumping but there are also some references to eventing.


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## Mynstrel (8 May 2022)

fetlock said:



			From his FB page just now


View attachment 92257

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Well said that person! The reply doesn't endear him any more than his reaction after the fall did.


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

RachelFerd said:



			Arial Grald has been round Burghley and Luhmuhlen once (oh, and Kentucky too) with that horse - quite a long way from a 5* first-timer - although I agree she was super!
		
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I swear the commentators said it was her first 5* yesterday on XC, so maybe I misheard or maybe they were wrong too lol


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## Tiddlypom (8 May 2022)

The seven withdrawals overnight after the XC were

no 5 Cesar V
no 18 Lassban Diamond Lift
no 31 Soladoun
no 42 DHI Mighty Dwight
no 75 Jewelent
no 85 MGH Bingo Boy
no 87 Goldsmiths Imber


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## Ambers Echo (8 May 2022)

Watching the BBC coverage of the top riders talking about their horses. I simply do not believe these  riders view the horses as machines. The love and respect they feel for the horses, and the relationship they have is moving and inspiring.


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## Rowreach (8 May 2022)

You lot are going to have to give a good commentary, it’s not being shown on BBC NI and I can’t even get Badminton radio to work now 🙄🤬


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## Crazy_cat_lady (8 May 2022)

I want Piggy to win!


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## teapot (8 May 2022)

sasquatch said:



			I swear the commentators said it was her first 5* yesterday on XC, so maybe I misheard or maybe they were wrong too lol
		
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Think there was another American who was at their first 5* possibly?


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## HashRouge (8 May 2022)

Rowreach said:



			You lot are going to have to give a good commentary, it’s not being shown on BBC NI and I can’t even get Badminton radio to work now 🙄🤬
		
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Can you watch it here? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/equestrian/61094797


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## Rowreach (8 May 2022)

HashRouge said:



			Can you watch it here? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/equestrian/61094797

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You star!


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## HashRouge (8 May 2022)

Rowreach said:



			You star!
		
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## teapot (8 May 2022)

Just came across a load of anti-eventing stuff on Twitter.

I just don’t know what the answer is to keep the sport at true 5* level but being aware of the social licence of horse sport especially now.


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## milliepops (8 May 2022)

teapot said:



			I just don’t know what the answer is to keep the sport at true 5* level but being aware of the social licence of horse sport especially now.
		
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no it's a tricky one, that's for sure.
I love eventing, it's fun to do and exciting to watch.  But times are changing and I am also unsure how to square the top competition aspect with preventing any horse from having an accident.

It feels unusual to see this much negativity (whereas it feels commonplace in dressage) , previously it's been more ripping into individuals rather than questioning the sport as a whole. wonder why it's taken this long?  rewatching the footage even the top riders in the world are yanking away on horses mouths in a way that would have them slaughtered in a dressage ring... but it's OK because the horse has its ears forward (doesn't that just mean its attention is ahead of it??)


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## only_me (8 May 2022)

Rowreach said:



			You lot are going to have to give a good commentary, it’s not being shown on BBC NI and I can’t even get Badminton radio to work now 🙄🤬
		
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Do you have sky? It’s channel 969 if so


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## Michen (8 May 2022)

super glitchy


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Lovely jumping round, shame about having 4 faults for Alice


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Oratorio doesn’t look the most settled today


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## teapot (8 May 2022)

milliepops said:



			no it's a tricky one, that's for sure.
I love eventing, it's fun to do and exciting to watch.  But times are changing and I am also unsure how to square the top competition aspect with preventing any horse from having an accident.

It feels unusual to see this much negativity (whereas it feels commonplace in dressage) , previously it's been more ripping into individuals rather than questioning the sport as a whole. wonder why it's taken this long?  rewatching the footage even the top riders in the world are yanking away on horses mouths in a way that would have them slaughtered in a dressage ring... but it's OK because the horse has its ears forward (doesn't that just mean its attention is ahead of it??)
		
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Yup.

I loved yesterday for watching the test of 5* and how easy some made it look. It was the best of the best. That’s not to say I am not aware of how it may look to a wider audience, I don’t think any of us like seeing horses have crunching falls.

What the answer is I honestly don’t know because if you sacrifice the sport/make it ‘easier’ you could end up with people taking more risks…


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## milliepops (8 May 2022)

teapot said:



			Yup.

I loved yesterday for watching the test of 5* and how easy some made it look. It was the best of the best. That’s not to say I am not aware of how it may look to a wider audience, I don’t think any of us like seeing horses have crunching falls.

What the answer is I honestly don’t know because if you sacrifice the sport/make it ‘easier’ you could end up with people taking more risks…
		
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or being less qualified in the first place to attend, and while there is some great riding at lower levels there is also some less great, so that is not necessarily the right approach either. the whole nature of the sport is that you can't predict what will happen out there so the thrill is the element of defying the odds, it's sort of intrinsic that there will be hairy moments and scrapes and i don't think you can get away from that - to do so might be to make it into varied terrain showjumping and that's not a great prospect either!!


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## quiteniceforacob (8 May 2022)

I’m on bbc two and they’re showing xc. Am I doing something wrong?


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## milliepops (8 May 2022)

Bbc is going to show the last 10 to SJ I believe? Live footage is on badminton TV.


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

teapot said:



			Yup.

I loved yesterday for watching the test of 5* and how easy some made it look. It was the best of the best. That’s not to say I am not aware of how it may look to a wider audience, I don’t think any of us like seeing horses have crunching falls.

What the answer is I honestly don’t know because if you sacrifice the sport/make it ‘easier’ you could end up with people taking more risks…
		
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I think you’re right with making it easier meaning more risks.
I do think an alternative would be making the long routes longer and less technical and short routes and any rider who’s had a refusal at any part of a combination/short route is then forced to jump the long route. Would be a better way of punishing a rider for miscalculating more than the horse, time penalties would be added. Although for an unfit horse may be punishment enough and may push riders into more technical fences on worse strides. Maybe having a softer alternative with time faults would appeal over chances of a run out at more difficult fences, as well as I think more stringent punishment for those who are found to get a yellow card or warning, if it meant a removal of placing riders may be less likely to risk them to begin with. Someone who’s sitting first and has an incident on course they could be yellow carded for will definitely ride differently after knowing a yellow card would cost them placing full stop.


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## quiteniceforacob (8 May 2022)

milliepops said:



			Bbc is going to show the last 10 to SJ I believe? Live footage is on badminton TV.
		
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Ah ok. I thought it was the final 20 but you’re right. Didn’t pay for the TV as I was there yesterday and just got home from the yard! Listening on the radio until the tv catches up


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Mai Baum looks like he’s on springs! What a gorgeous horse


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Beautiful round! Well done Tammy Smith, clear and inside the time.
Absolutely wonderful partnership to watch, you can really see they’re very in tune with each other


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Will try and update for everyone only seeing the top 10

Christoph had had 2 fences, so is now sitting in 10th


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## milliepops (8 May 2022)

Its tricky, making long routes longer might make them even less attractive. 
No one in their right mind would take a direct route they genuinely thought they couldn't pull off.

I know people have differing views about what Oli did on the first horse but to me it was really no worse than the several that pecked on landing and picked up to carry on, which no one really mentions.  Other than the French horse that was shattered I don't think we saw much in the way of yellow-card type incidents?


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Next 2 horses should be on BBC


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## Lexi_ (8 May 2022)

Who’s the woman on the livestream commentary? Don’t recognise the voice and I missed the beginning of this section where she presumably got introduced.


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## Tiddlypom (8 May 2022)

Kylie Roddy (I think)


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

milliepops said:



			Its tricky, making long routes longer might make them even less attractive.
No one in their right mind would take a direct route they genuinely thought they couldn't pull off.

I know people have differing views about what Oli did on the first horse but to me it was really no worse than the several that pecked on landing and picked up to carry on, which no one really mentions.  Other than the French horse that was shattered I don't think we saw much in the way of yellow-card type incidents?
		
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I think it’s why if they cracked down on all incidents and had something like a TMO to review it would benefit to an extent, and rider who makes several mistakes on course that causes the horse to peck on landing being examined or any near-falls etc., to be reviewed.

It’s also why I’m not sure if making long routes easier and short routes harder would work, but a way to penalise riders rather than horses for mistakes would definitely be through time penalties without risking horse falls by making the jumps themselves so difficult they punish horse and rider if they go wrong.

I would like to see more frangible pins used on combinations though, as often it seems to be the first or second elements where there’s problems and if both Emily and Cathal had had pins on the second elements you wonder if they would have had such nasty falls too


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Austin O’Connor in now, still on his dressage score


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Austin O’Connor clear over fences but finish with 0.4 time faults, meaning they nearly finish on their dressage score.

Great achievement, just a shame he’s out of the top 10 currently due to not having a great dressage


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Not a great start for Gireg, some of these horses definitely look tired


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## Michen (8 May 2022)

Colorado blue fantastic. Not covered in tack and such a happy disposition.


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## milliepops (8 May 2022)

you'd have to change the entire design of fences courses to have pins everywhere though wouldn't you?  I think they are put in pretty much everywhere they can these days at a big event like this. 

and reviewing who caused a horse to peck or not is fraught with difficulty, i 100% think this kind of thing should be reviewed but i would say it looked like Swallow Springs chose the bad stride they went on, not Oli, and he then jumped clear,  has passed the inspection and expected to SJ so it was an OK decision to continue.

Forgot the horse that hesitated at the broken bridge, again that was not the rider's "fault" that they ended up splatting, it was just a consequence of the horse coming off too quietly. i don't think it would be fair to clobber the rider with any kind of black mark for something like that, if they'd been able to pick up and continue - it was not rider error i don't think?

how would you separate in the event of one that pecked after the footbridge and it wasn't clear whether horse or rider made an iffy judgement? horse that puts its legs down in the middle of an otherwise good attempt, for example? I'm not expecting you to have the answers sasquatch   i just can't imagine how to have much kind of qualitative assessment of an xc round, on elements that were not black and white welfare issues (overuse of whip, tired horse etc)


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Lovely round by David Doel


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## teapot (8 May 2022)

Lordships Gruffalo is such a wonderful horse. What a masterclass by Ros Canter!


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

milliepops said:



			you'd have to change the entire design of fences courses to have pins everywhere though wouldn't you?  I think they are put in pretty much everywhere they can these days at a big event like this.

and reviewing who caused a horse to peck or not is fraught with difficulty, i 100% think this kind of thing should be reviewed but i would say it looked like Swallow Springs chose the bad stride they went on, not Oli, and he then jumped clear,  has passed the inspection and expected to SJ so it was an OK decision to continue.

Forgot the horse that hesitated at the broken bridge, again that was not the rider's "fault" that they ended up splatting, it was just a consequence of the horse coming off too quietly. i don't think it would be fair to clobber the rider with any kind of black mark for something like that, if they'd been able to pick up and continue - it was not rider error i don't think?

how would you separate in the event of one that pecked after the footbridge and it wasn't clear whether horse or rider made an iffy judgement? horse that puts its legs down in the middle of an otherwise good attempt, for example? I'm not expecting you to have the answers sasquatch   i just can't imagine how to have much kind of qualitative assessment of an xc round, on elements that were not black and white welfare issues (overuse of whip, tired horse etc)
		
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Honestly I think it’s maybe time they started looking into it. Rugby has a TMO to look over events that could have been foul play - even when there was no malicious intent, if someone accidentally may have done foul play it’s reviewed and a decision is made. 
If a horse was to add an extra side, slip and nearly go down on landing and the rider keeps going however horse is clearly not as happy and has lost confidence, I do feel that should be something deserving of a warning whether or not it causes a fall. It’s very different to have one bad jump, rider gives a fence or two to see if horse is still enjoying jumping and if not retires vs someone riding a horse who’s lost confidence and isn’t jumping well. It would also be at the discretion of whoever is reviewing, which isn’t ideal, but it’s the same with all sports that use a TMO system. Fence judge can flag an incident, give their report and TMO reviews to see if there’s a concern there or not. Something such as FJ sending a message to say competitor 12 horse took flag out and struggled over fence 4, front legs went down on landing. Unsure if horse slipped on takeoff or was a rider error, please review. The TMO would then review footage and make a decision as to if it’s a non-incident or not.

I do definitely think that more can be done to make eventing safer without making it softer, and keeping the ‘toughness’ in courses like Badminton. I think it just needs to start adapting the way other sports have done to safety concerns where new rules and features are implemented to protect safety whilst not making the sports so ‘soft’ they’re unrecognisable. The technology is definitely out there, but with equestrian sports not getting as much funding and every day viewers outside of racing, it’ll take a while for it to be properly adapted and used


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## DirectorFury (8 May 2022)

Amazing round by Ros Canter!


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## sasquatch (8 May 2022)

Fence for OT, so now looks like it’ll be between Laura and Ros


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## fetlock (8 May 2022)

A great round. Well done Laura!


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## DirectorFury (8 May 2022)

Well done Laura!

I’m so gutted for Ros Canter but what a start to Lordships Graffalo’s career!


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## teapot (8 May 2022)

Fantastic result for Laura and Ros 😁


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## j1ffy (8 May 2022)

Amazing rounds from both Ros and Laura! Ros’ horse looks like a star in the making.

On another note - did anyone else notice the bloke adjusting himself as he walked past the camera behind Ros’ interview?!


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## fetlock (8 May 2022)

Anyone else have a tear (or two) in their eye watching Laura being interviewed?


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## DirectorFury (8 May 2022)

Oh god I’ve got something in my eye at Laura’s interview where she’s talking about wanting to be Pippa winning Badminton 🥹


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## Tiddlypom (8 May 2022)

j1ffy said:



			On another note - did anyone else notice the bloke adjusting himself as he walked past the camera behind Ros’ interview?!
		
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I wasn’t quite sure just what he was up to 😳 🤮


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## fetlock (8 May 2022)

DirectorFury said:



			Oh god I’ve got something in my eye at Laura’s interview where she’s talking about wanting to be Pippa winning Badminton 🥹
		
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I still have, now watching her mum!


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## Ambers Echo (8 May 2022)

Delighted for Laura. What a ride!


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## fetlock (8 May 2022)

j1ffy said:



			Amazing rounds from both Ros and Laura! Ros’ horse looks like a star in the making.

On another note - did anyone else notice the bloke adjusting himself as he walked past the camera behind Ros’ interview?!
		
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Probably just a random politician...


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## HashRouge (8 May 2022)

London 52 is such a phenomenal horse!


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## Supertrooper (8 May 2022)

Really pleased for Laura & Dan. And delighted for Ros also 

Also really pleased that Piggy & Tilly came 4th xxxx


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## PipsqueakXy22 (8 May 2022)

Well done to Laura and London 52!! And what an amazing mum she has too


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## ecb89 (8 May 2022)

So pleased for Laura!


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## Chianti (8 May 2022)

teapot said:



			Just came across a load of anti-eventing stuff on Twitter.

I just don’t know what the answer is to keep the sport at true 5* level but being aware of the social licence of horse sport especially now.
		
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I think it's understandable. If you're not a rider and you see video of horses falling over huge obstacles then you'll question why they are being made to do it. I'm a horse owner - non competitive- of  30+ years and I'm not sure I understand any more.


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## NinjaPony (8 May 2022)

Just catching up via the bbc. That Tom Mcewan fall was horrific, I was shouting ‘take a pull!’ as he approached. Poor horse, not his fault at all.

I do think the issue with eventing is that when the rider or horse makes a mistake, which is going to happen at some point no matter how experienced you are, the consequences can be totally horrific in a way that they aren’t if you make a mistake in a dressage test. Bruised egos vs life changing injuries.

I don’t know what the answer is, I’ve never evented but watch all the horse trials, but I am starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it. Definitely room for debate.


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## LEC (8 May 2022)

I feel much more uncomfortable with high level dressage. Though the horse has to show an aptitude for it, it doesn’t seem a great life to me. Even Carl and Charlotte have high attrition. I have friends at GP on average horses and what they do also makes me feel uncomfortable. Eventers at least get a choice because you cannot make a horse jump if it doesn’t want to and they have to be pretty special horses to go to Badminton and achieve MERs along the way to check they are safe. You cannot remove rider error. It’s impossible. That was the highest quality field ever assembled at Badminton. Even at the Olympics we saw rider error and that has been softened considerably to aid the lesser nations when it does go wrong. There are a lot of riders who swerve Badminton - Andrew Hoy and Kevin Mcnab would be two examples so it’s a choice made by riders.


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## OrangeAndLemon (9 May 2022)

Maxine Livio has updated on Vito to say he is recovering quickly and returning to his normal personality.


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## ycbm (9 May 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			I love Amber and I am putting her at risk by breeding her.   Yet another contradiction.
		
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I don't see this as a contradiction,  she is doing only what she would have chosen to do if left to her own devices in a herd with a stallion.  I've seen horses jump things when turned out for the fun of it,  and was told one of my own jumped a course of show jumps on more than one occasion.  But I don't think any horse is ever going to jump 4* or 5* fences or GP show jumps for the hell of it.





Chianti said:



			I think it's understandable. If you're not a rider and you see video of horses falling over huge obstacles then you'll question why they are being made to do it. I'm a horse owner - non competitive- of 30+ years and I'm not sure I understand any more.
		
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NinjaPony said:



			I don’t know what the answer is, I’ve never evented but watch all the horse trials, but I am starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it. Definitely room for debate.
		
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I think international level horse sport has lost its way.  It no longer bears any relationship to ordinary horse owning.  Horses bred to extremes  specifically to reach international level,  sold at phenomenal prices that no ordinary mortal will ever afford,  with who knows what wastage rates along the way of horses which break down or are completely unsuited to amateur homes, with ever more extreme questions being asked of animals that can't consent to it, for the entertainment and glorification of humans.

I used to love watching it, live and on TV,  but I think with the world now able to comment on social media,  elite horse sport may have had its day before too long.
.


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## blodwyn1 (9 May 2022)

The BBC coverage of the cross country was greatly sanitised to exclude the really awful incidents and Nicola Wilson wasn't mentioned till the end. I am not sure if that's right either. I would have thought. What a great competition of I hadn't seen that you tube video which made me feel sick!


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## ycbm (9 May 2022)

I do feel sorry for people who love watching this and racing who want a thread to discuss it with like minded people.  I didn't comment before because of that.  Is there any way we can work out so this forum can provide that,  and have critical discussion on a separate thread?  I can't quite see how it can be done without moderation and this forum doesn't have moderation.



ETA, you could support this thread if you agree.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...iscuss-specific-events-like-badminton.818194/
.


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## Ambers Echo (9 May 2022)

blodwyn1 said:



			The BBC coverage of the cross country was greatly sanitised to exclude the really awful incidents and Nicola Wilson wasn't mentioned till the end. I am not sure if that's right either. I would have thought. What a great competition of I hadn't seen that you tube video which made me feel sick!
		
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Given that the public have yet be given any real idea of the extent of Nicola's injuries, I think not showing her fall is a mark of respect for the family. They showed other falls that looked awful, if they involved sigificant riders.


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## blodwyn1 (9 May 2022)

No I agree about not showing her fall but there were many other incidents on that video that made me uncomfortable such a as the attitude of some male riders to their horses. Oh I don't know anymore.


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## fetlock (9 May 2022)

Anyone know how Nicola is? 
(checked her website and no further update on there as yet)


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## NinjaPony (9 May 2022)

Hope we get some news on Nicola soon, you could tell that Piggy, Tina and co were all very concerned and she is a great rider.

I was impressed by the attitudes of Ros Canter and Piggy March in particular towards their horses, you could really tell that they have a great partnership and a lot of respect for them which is something some other riders could learn from… It was also great to see Pippa Funnell handle her issue with the water; present again, nurse through and then retire on a positive note.


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## RachelFerd (9 May 2022)

On a more celebratory note...

We saw some fabulous horsemanship:

- Pippa having an issue at the big drop pond, quietly educating the horse and then taking him home to fight another day
- Kylie Roddy pulling up the very moment that her horse didn't feel right, circling around to check and taking him home despite him being in a competitive position at that point
- Sarah Way making a gutting but sensible decision not to run when she wasn't in the right headspace
- Special admiration for Sammi Birch when stopped just before the footbridge - that is NOT the ideal place to have to get going from a standing start again - nerve-wracking or what?!
- Amanda Pottinger making a quick decision not to turn to the second of the corners when she could feel her horse wasn't with her - despite the time dropping her down the order
- Tamie Smith easing Mai Baum home when he just appeared to be finding the last minute a little tough
- WFP keeping Little Fire's head in the game when he looked pretty spooky and unfocussed for a big chunk of the course
- Jonelle and Classic Moet - 19 years old and looking the absolute picture of health around the XC (also Ringwood Sky Boy for Tim looking great at 19 too - serious longevity!)

We saw some brilliant saves:

- Laura Collett hanging on tight when London 52 left a leg at the quarry - it could have been a v. different result!
- David Doel at the lemieux question (downhill coffin thing) where his horse just picked up and jumped that gaping ditch without any rider input!
- Kitty King holding on for dear life when Vendredi Biats jumped right to the bottom of the slope drop at the lake
- Joris Vanspringel somehow coming back from an impossible neck-hug at that final combination
- Emily Hamel very nearly got wet at the pond - but hung on tight to get that Badminton completion in the bag

Also - poetry in motion awards to Ros Canter on both rides, but particularly Lordships Graffalo, Piggy with Vanir Kamira, Olly with Ballaghmor Class, Austin O' Connor with Colorado Blue, Tamie and Mai Baum, Jonelle and Classic Moet, Ariel Grald and Leamore Master Plan.

And have to mention BRILLIANT first time rides around Badminton for Alice Casburn, Libby Seed and Lauren Innes.

Oh and edited to add - real highlight for me was Piggy commentating on Kitty's round. That sums up the ethos of eventing for me - willing each other to do well over and above what it means for your personal placing.


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## Fellewell (9 May 2022)

I think the reason xc day is packed to the gunnels is because it's the ultimate skill test for both horse and rider in that they are both totally/equally dependent on each other to get home safe and sound. With the right preparation and a decent jockey they can cruise round the track, ears pricked and sailing over the jumps and still be fresh at the trot up next morning. How is that a bad thing?
Horses enjoy our company, heaven knows why but they do. AR types seem to think that horses would do just fine with no human contact. Anyone with retired horses in more than ample acreage, good rotated grazing, man-made and natural shelter, all needs met, will know that horses are not good at looking after themselves and they can still injure themselves and each other when there isn't a saddle in sight!
I hope Nicola is ok. Some of my fondest memories are of watching her pilot Dodi xc and anyone who says that horse wasn't having a whale of a time wants their bumps felt!


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## Schollym (9 May 2022)

Will the young lady ( Molly?) whose horse stopped at the water and then proceeded to wallop it three times before putting it at the jump again get reprimanded for It. It was clearly dished out as punishment rather than as encouragement. The horse refused again.


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## milliepops (9 May 2022)

FWIW the horse could get home safe by itself  trotting merrily past all the fences  just as they do when the rider tips off!

I do think a lot of this comes down to your perception of the horse/human relationship. i love my retirees but they aren't that fussed about me unless they think i have treats... and touch wood are largely self sufficient, they are part breds tho and would do quite well without any input at all i reckon.


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## BBP (9 May 2022)

ycbm said:



			I've seen horses jump things when turned out for the fun of it,  and was told one of my own jumped a course of show jumps on more than one occasion.  But I don't think any horse is ever going to jump 4* or 5* fences or GP show jumps for the hell of it.
.
		
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I have seen one horse running at what was then 3* in NZ, who went well and truly underwater at the first part of a water combination, ditching his rider and got up facing perpendicular to the line he had been on. He got up, shook the water out of his ears, turned 90degrees, found his line, popped into trot, up the step out of the water, one stride to a big log, down into the second part of the water complex, kept his line through and cantered out over the final element and galloped off to the next fence. Never seen anything like it. He could have exited the lake at any other point, and the lorry park was to one side across a field so he wasn’t heading to us. But I appreciate that was a pretty unique horse!


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## fankino04 (9 May 2022)

BBP said:



			I have seen one horse running at what was then 3* in NZ, who went well and truly underwater at the first part of a water combination, ditching his rider and got up facing perpendicular to the line he had been on. He got up, shook the water out of his ears, turned 90degrees, found his line, popped into trot, up the step out of the water, one stride to a big log, down into the second part of the water complex, kept his line through and cantered out over the final element and galloped off to the next fence. Never seen anything like it. He could have exited the lake at any other point, and the lorry park was to one side across a field so he wasn’t heading to us. But I appreciate that was a pretty unique horse!
		
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When we were at the vicarage v on Saturday there was a loose horse that set itself up on a pretty good line to jump it but then thought better of it when it got a better look but it does go to show that after losing the rider the horse still wanted to continue their day of cross country, until they realised what badminton fences are all about that was lol.


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## Tiddlypom (9 May 2022)

The thrills and spills Badminton 2022 you tube video linked to earlier in this thread  seems to have been taken down.

Such videos have their place, but including the clip of Nicola Wilson's fall was in very poor taste and should not have happened. Though I don't know if that is what led to the video being taken down.


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## teapot (9 May 2022)

Schollym said:



			Will the young lady ( Molly?) whose horse stopped at the water and then proceeded to wallop it three times before putting it at the jump again get reprimanded for It. It was clearly dished out as punishment rather than as encouragement. The horse refused again.
		
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Potentially. The yellow card list will be updated at some point in next week or so. Will depend on how it was viewed in situ, not a week later etc.


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## OrangeAndLemon (9 May 2022)

There was one other occurrence which gave me anxiety through the cross country and no one else has mentioned it.

Yes, Austin O'Connors hat silk! It was slipping back slowly all the way around and I was willing it on to make it the the finish line. It did make it but it was defying the laws of physics. The peak was vertical half way around the course and pointing backwards at a 45 degree angle by the time he finished. Brilliant performance from the hat silk (or a demonstration of smooth riding by Austin)


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## Wishfilly (9 May 2022)

FWIW, I really enjoyed the rounds of some of the badminton first timers- a lot of them showed real class and maturity to ride a safe clear around a hugely challenging course. Especially Felcity Collins who also managed a clear inside the time showjumping!

Laura's whole badminton was just amazing, and I loved her final interview. 

And yes, in future it might be good to keep discussion of the event on one thread, and debate on another, but I don't know how that gets managed!


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## Supertrooper (9 May 2022)

Really enjoying the XC actually, especially when Piggy & Tina were commentating ❤️


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## RachelFerd (9 May 2022)

Tiddlypom said:



			The thrills and spills Badminton 2022 you tube video linked to earlier in this thread  seems to have been taken down.

Such videos have their place, but including the clip of Nicola Wilson's fall was in very poor taste and should not have happened. Though I don't know if that is what led to the video being taken down.
		
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Hopefully a successful copyright claim - because poor taste is one thing, but the fact that it was breaking copyright law was indisputable.


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## Caol Ila (9 May 2022)

Watched the parts shown by the BBC today. I was too cheap to pay for Badminton TV. Really enjoyed the riding, but Ian Stark's commentary deserved a drinking game. Take a drink every time he said "full of running" (maybe it's eventing jargon but it is irritatingly terrible English..."running" is not a noun!!!) or "masterclass." You would have been hammered by midday.


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## linka (9 May 2022)

Caol Ila said:



			Watched the parts shown by the BBC today. I was too cheap to pay for Badminton TV. Really enjoyed the riding, but Ian Stark's commentary deserved a drinking game. Take a drink every time he said "full of running" (maybe it's eventing jargon but it is irritatingly terrible English..."running" is not a noun!!!) or "masterclass." You would have been hammered by midday.
		
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it's Old English! 
Þere ofte he travaylede wylde bestes and took hem wiþ swifte rennynge


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## fetlock (9 May 2022)

Caol Ila said:



			Watched the parts shown by the BBC today. I was too cheap to pay for Badminton TV. Really enjoyed the riding, but Ian Stark's commentary deserved a drinking game. Take a drink every time he said "full of running" (maybe it's eventing jargon but it is irritatingly terrible English..."running" is not a noun!!!) or "masterclass." You would have been hammered by midday.
		
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Good job he lives slightly further North than Newcastle or instead of full of runnng he'd have said "gaanin like the clappers"


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## Caol Ila (10 May 2022)

As per drinking game rules, you should also down an entire bottle of wine when a TV announcer repeatedly calls a mare "he" during her test or round, especially in stallion/gelding-dominated sports like eventing or dressage. Ian was guilty of this with Vanir Kamira's XC, and whoever commentated on the Olympic dressage was guilty indeed with Dalera's GP test.


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## Lexi_ (10 May 2022)

I always tick a square off the bingo card when they refer to someone being from a good hunting family.


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## Penguin_Toes (10 May 2022)

If you wanted to get really trashed you could look for "strength in depth" whilst reading Horse and Hound


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## HashRouge (10 May 2022)

Caol Ila said:



			Watched the parts shown by the BBC today. I was too cheap to pay for Badminton TV. Really enjoyed the riding, but Ian Stark's commentary deserved a drinking game. Take a drink every time he said "full of running" (maybe it's eventing jargon but it is irritatingly terrible English..."running" is not a noun!!!) or "masterclass." You would have been hammered by midday.
		
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Actually, it is a noun!

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/running

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/running


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## Tiddlypom (10 May 2022)

Lexi_ said:



			I always tick a square off the bingo card when they refer to someone being from a good hunting family.
		
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It must take you longer to fill your card since the sad loss of Mike Tucker. 

'Full of running' is a good description. I enjoy Ian Stark's commentary.


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## Chiffy (10 May 2022)

Hi all, haven’t been in here before as watched every moment of Badminton tv. Well worth the discounted price . 
Have read nearly all this thread, lots of interesting points. I am old so perhaps that’s why I absolutely love Ian Stark’s commentary, far superior to the chattering girls! I was disappointed he was missing for such a large chunk of the day. All the commentary was better than Kentucky though.
I am quite happy with the expression’ full of running’ , it’s used in racing commentary too.
PS, before you are all up in arms, I am very fond of Piggy, she is a personal friend . I like Tina too but just like Ian the best! 😁


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## Supertrooper (10 May 2022)

British Equestrian have just released another update on Nicola Wilson


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## shortstuff99 (10 May 2022)

Found here 

https://www.britishequestrian.org.uk/news/update-nicola-wilson


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## Supertrooper (10 May 2022)

I really hope her spinal cord is ok


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## NinjaPony (10 May 2022)

Glad she is breathing independently and talking but it sounds very serious. Horrible thing to happen, I hope she makes a full recovery as soon as possible.


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## shortstuff99 (10 May 2022)

Supertrooper said:



			I really hope her spinal cord is ok
		
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If they're stable and not needing an op (as mentioned) it is unlikely (but not impossible) to have impacted the spinal cord. 

I didn't notice a fracture in my spine for nearly 2 months as it was stable.


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## Honey08 (10 May 2022)

Poor Nicola, I hope her recovery is swift and comfortable.  I knew it was pretty serious when there hadn’t been an update for days.  Bet she’s still got that lovely smile on her face even now.

I think “lives just down the road from here” might make it onto commentator bingo too.

I think I like Ian best as commentator, then Tina.  Piggy and Harry both irritate me a little as they talk too much.


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## Kat (10 May 2022)

Honey08 said:



			Poor Nicola, I hope her recovery is swift and comfortable.  I knew it was pretty serious when there hadn’t been an update for days.  Bet she’s still got that lovely smile on her face even now.

I think “lives just down the road from here” might make it onto commentator bingo too.

I think I like Ian best as commentator, then Tina.  Piggy and Harry both irritate me a little as they talk too much.
		
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And a drink everytime Tina mixes up a saying, like "puts hairs on the back of your neck", there have been a few but I can't remember the others. 

I do agree Ian and Tina are great on the commentary.


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## Supertrooper (11 May 2022)

Pippa has done an honest Facebook post, I so admire her


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## TheMule (11 May 2022)

shortstuff99 said:



			If they're stable and not needing an op (as mentioned) it is unlikely (but not impossible) to have impacted the spinal cord.

I didn't notice a fracture in my spine for nearly 2 months as it was stable.
		
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I'm afraid that's not true. I have a friend who was paralysed in a fall with stable fractures- an op wouldn’t have done anything to help as the damage to the cord had already been done, Given she's in ICU and likely to be there for a fair unfortunately that looks increasingly likely.

Nicola is one of the nicest people in the sport, I have absolutely everything crossed for her.


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## shortstuff99 (11 May 2022)

TheMule said:



			I'm afraid that's not true. I have a friend who was paralysed in a fall with stable fractures- an op wouldn’t have done anything to help as the damage to the cord had already been done, Given she's in ICU and likely to be there for a fair unfortunately that looks increasingly likely.

Nicola is one of the nicest people in the sport, I have absolutely everything crossed for her.
		
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They said she is moving out of ICU in the next few days so I took that as a good sign. 

I only mentioned my experience and the few friends who had similar were all okay with stable fractures but obviously none of us will know.


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## Fellewell (11 May 2022)

milliepops said:



			FWIW the horse could get home safe by itself  trotting merrily past all the fences  just as they do when the rider tips off!

I do think a lot of this comes down to your perception of the horse/human relationship. i love my retirees but they aren't that fussed about me unless they think i have treats... and touch wood are largely self sufficient, they are part breds tho and would do quite well without any input at all i reckon.
		
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Is this to me? So we could have a riderless Badminton? Perhaps this could be facilitated by introducing bumblebee DNA to future breeding programmes for the sport. In this way horses could communicate by means of a small scale dance/wiggle, directions precise enough to keep horses on the xc course even though it's several kilometres long. Just like bees do. Of course there would need to be a pathfinder with a rider, someone universally loved and admired, Michael Jung for example. Obviously he would get a flat fee as none of the other horses would have weight assigned to them. Apparently only female bees sting so geldings would be more popular. The academic debate around bees and dance language is supposed to be polarised and hostile unlike the discussions on these boards What the heck it's 5 o clock somewhere!


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## milliepops (11 May 2022)

Fellewell said:



			Is this to me?
		
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interesting way to interpret my post but  yes, you literally said that horse and rider were dependent on each other to get home safe, and i don't think that's strictly true - its the rider's decision to put the horse at risk and the horses demonstrate from time to time that they can get home by themselves.  Let's not pretend that the horse is sitting at the kitchen table telling their rider to get a move on with the badders entries   getting home for them just means finding the stables.


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## Fellewell (11 May 2022)

milliepops said:



			interesting way to interpret my post but  yes, you literally said that horse and rider were dependent on each other to get home safe, and i don't think that's strictly true - its the rider's decision to put the horse at risk and the horses demonstrate from time to time that they can get home by themselves.  Let's not pretend that the horse is sitting at the kitchen table telling their rider to get a move on with the badders entries   getting home for them just means finding the stables.
		
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Well, the rider can't complete the xc course on his own and nor can the horse (trotting back to the lorry park doesn't count). Horses might get to the finish in racing when they're with the rest of the field but I don't recall seeing a horse finish a xc course alone. In that respect, horse and rider have a certain interdependency, like it or not.
When a rider completes a course and points enthusiastically at the horse under him/her is he saying _this horse gave his all and got me out of trouble_ or is he/she indulging in some sort of anthropomorphic, self-congratulatory theatre in your opinion?
Your argument is that the rider is putting the horse at risk. I would argue that it is the riders job to mitigate any risk by giving the horse the best possible chance to complete the course and get home. The riders job is to compete on a horse who is above all capable of completing the course thereby diminishing the risks as far as possible.
As to the horses viewpoint in all this, well, nobody has been able to ask them so we will have to agree to disagree.


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## scats (11 May 2022)

Fellewell said:



			Well, the rider can't complete the xc course on his own and nor can the horse (trotting back to the lorry park doesn't count). Horses might get to the finish in racing when they're with the rest of the field but I don't recall seeing a horse finish a xc course alone. In that respect, horse and rider have a certain interdependency, like it or not.
When a rider completes a course and points enthusiastically at the horse under him/her is he saying _this horse gave his all and got me out of trouble_ or is he/she indulging in some sort of anthropomorphic, self-congratulatory theatre in your opinion?
Your argument is that the rider is putting the horse at risk. I would argue that it is the riders job to mitigate any risk by giving the horse the best possible chance to complete the course and get home. The riders job is to compete on a horse who is above all capable of completing the course thereby diminishing the risks as far as possible.
As to the horses viewpoint in all this, well, nobody has been able to ask them so we will have to agree to disagree.
		
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Of course the rider is putting the horse at risk. When I take my horse out on the road, I’m also putting her at risk.
If we put animals in situations where they could come to harm, we are risking them.
Yes the rider is also at risk, but they’ve made that choice themselves.
I’m not against horse sports at all, quite the opposite actually, but it would be naive of me to think that we don’t endanger animals when we use them in this way.


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## milliepops (11 May 2022)

scats said:



			Of course the rider is putting the horse at risk. When I take my horse out on the road, I’m also putting her at risk.
If we put animals in situations where they could come to harm, we are risking them.
Yes the rider is also at risk, but they’ve made that choice themselves.
I’m not against horse sports at all, quite the opposite actually, but it would be naive of me to think that we don’t endanger animals when we use them in this way.
		
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This, and why does the rider say the horse gave it 100%...? Because humans spent the last 10 years or so training the horse to behave a certain way (never mind the hundreds of years of selective breeding for trainability and sporting talent before said horse was even a  black blob on an ultrasound 🤣)


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## Caol Ila (11 May 2022)

Where do you stop going down the rabbit hole? I’m sure my ex-feral would be quite happy on the Dallas estate, living wild and never seeing a human. Yet I’m making him carry my a*rse around and dodging traffic every day. Still waiting for the shoe to drop and for him to realise that he could buck me off and be wild and free.


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## LEC (12 May 2022)

Caol Ila said:



			Where do you stop going down the rabbit hole? I’m sure my ex-feral would be quite happy on the Dallas estate, living wild and never seeing a human. Yet I’m making him carry my a*rse around and dodging traffic every day. Still waiting for the shoe to drop and for him to realise that he could buck me off and be wild and free.
		
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Though it has really interested me with the Ukrainian horses who were set free and just being caught now how bad they look as you just think - meh it’s a horse it will be ok.


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## stangs (12 May 2022)

LEC said:



			Though it has really interested me with the Ukrainian horses who were set free and just being caught now how bad they look as you just think - meh it’s a horse it will be ok.
		
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Tbf even a horse born and raised feral would struggle if left to its own devices in a war zone.


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## teapot (12 May 2022)

For anyone interested, the FEI warning/card list has been updated. Can be found here: https://inside.fei.org/fei/your-role/athletes/warning-cards

(scroll down to Eventing - list of riders)

The noseband loosening relates to his dressage test.


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## LEC (12 May 2022)

teapot said:



			For anyone interested, the FEI warning/card list has been updated. Can be found here: https://inside.fei.org/fei/your-role/athletes/warning-cards

(scroll down to Eventing - list of riders)

The noseband loosening relates to his dressage test.
		
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maximes has actually made me cross and the FEI should have red carded and suspended IMO.


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## KEK (12 May 2022)

What happens with a yellow card?


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## quiteniceforacob (12 May 2022)

If I’ve understood that then Maxime was  issued 2 yellow cards? Does that not mean a 2 month suspension? He’s competing today.


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## LEC (12 May 2022)

quiteniceforacob said:



			If I’ve understood that then Maxime was  issued 2 yellow cards? Does that not mean a 2 month suspension? He’s competing today.
		
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No he got one yellow card and the absolutely meaningless warning.


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## splashgirl45 (13 May 2022)

I must be a bit dim,  I clicked on the link and don’t see details of rider warnings,  help please


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## TPO (13 May 2022)

splashgirl45 said:



			I must be a bit dim,  I clicked on the link and don’t see details of rider warnings,  help please
		
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If you scroll down you'll see headings for jumping, dressage, para dressage, eventing, endurance and driving. To the right of them is Riders List. Click on thst and it opens an excel document with where the card/warning occurred, rider, horse, reason etc


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## splashgirl45 (13 May 2022)

Thankyou TPO,  yes I was being dim 😀😀


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## shortstuff99 (13 May 2022)

Good article here https://eventingnation.com/reporters-notebook-with-badminton-in-the-rearview-what-can-we-learn/


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## Wishfilly (14 May 2022)

teapot said:



			For anyone interested, the FEI warning/card list has been updated. Can be found here: https://inside.fei.org/fei/your-role/athletes/warning-cards

(scroll down to Eventing - list of riders)

The noseband loosening relates to his dressage test.
		
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Interesting, thank you for sharing!


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## maya2008 (20 May 2022)

LEC said:



			Though it has really interested me with the Ukrainian horses who were set free and just being caught now how bad they look as you just think - meh it’s a horse it will be ok.
		
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I’ve had three ponies that came from feral backgrounds - all three were VERY happy to be in a nice grassy field with water supplied to them, bucket feed daily we and hay in winter. So happy in fact that when others escaped and went on a jolly, they refused to go too!


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