# Bridle Lameness?



## floradora09 (12 September 2010)

Long post, sorry! I bought a 15 year old TB last march, and had him 5 stage vetted. Vet said he found mild lameness when lunged on a hard surface on one rein (can't remember which one!) but was gone after they did some work in the school. Flexion tests and everything else fine, so vet passed him. On and off he's been a little noddy, normally when worked on a surface in a circle, and generally gets better as he warms up. It's also been once or twice when we're trotting along roads, sometimes up hill. No heat or swelling anywhere, and regularly shod by a good farrier. He'll trot up sound. Of course I understand that with an older horse you're bound to have a couple of lameness issues, and I'm very careful about running him on hard ground. Went to the Under 21 dressage champs, and he was a bit noddy during my tests, but all they wrote was 'head nod' or 'uneven into bridle'. It was affiliated judging, so I would have thought that if he was lame they would have stopped me? Spoke to my instructor about it, who had him when he was younger, and she said not to worry unless it becomes consistent, as going down the vet route could be like opening a can of worms, and he's 15, after all! Had a lesson a few days ago, and he felt good, a tiny bit noddy once or twice, but she said she reckoned it look like bridle lameness? Did some dressage today and he was a bit noddy, more so on the right rein on the 15m circles. Comments such as 'unsteady head, uneven head, uneven into bridle'.

1) What is bridle lameness? Although I do try my best etc I haven't done a lot of dressage before having this horse, and can easily believe that I probably do not have an even contact at all times. 

Thanks so much to anyone who helps!


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## mystiandsunny (12 September 2010)

As far as I'm aware, bridle lameness is only evident under saddle, and I *think* it's either psychological (horse has learned that by doing this can get out of work), caused by the rider/saddle/back.  But someone else will know more than me!


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## LucyPriory (12 September 2010)

Personally I don't believe in the theory of bridle lameness which follows the 'get out of it theory'

I do think that the extra pressure of being ridden can highlight a problem or the actual riding itself can cause a problem sufficient to make a horse lame.

I know one horse that used to get severely disciplined for 'bridle lameness' of the 'trying it on theory' and it turned out to have a crack in its pedal bone.

I know another horse that goes lame when it is ridden because the rider seems unable to sit straight.  Unfortunately this has got so bad it caused long term problems.

So trust your horse.  If he/she says I'm sore they are. Just because humans are too numpty to be able to understand why doesn't mean the horse is lying.

And I hate to bang this drum again but my current rehab was under the vets for years and was written off with undiagnosed problems.  Ended up heading for meat.

The only thing wrong with her (in summary) was an inappropriate diet and poor management.


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## misst (12 September 2010)

^^^^ what Lucy Priory says I am afraid. I do not believe in storys of horses going lame to get out of work. My daughters old dressage horse had similar problems to the OPs horse. He was sound as a pound a lot of the time especially in the field or on the lunge. On a tight circle on a hard surface, or sometimes ridden, he would be occasionally nodding. I call this lame. Affiliated BD judges have given him good marks when I have considered him unlevel or to be taking the occasional uneven/unlevel step. He has been retired from a class by my daughter on these occasions but at no time has the judge considered him "lame". 

Sorry if the horse is nodding or taking uneven/unlevel steps then he is lame. Maybe not very lame but lame. For me lame = pain. Pain = unacceptable to work. I expect this is not what you want to hear but I see a lot of horses working when I believe they need to retire. Sorry.


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## andraste (12 September 2010)

I'm afraid I'm going to echo what most others have said.  Bridle lameness is lameness that manifests when a horse is ridden NOT the horse growing enough brains to be devious and 'trying it on.' 

Bridle lame horses can be field sound and sound for light hacking but go lame when more is asked of them i.e. 15m circles.

Whether it opens a can of worms or not you really need to get a vet out to figure out what's wrong.


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## LucyPriory (12 September 2010)

Agree with vet.  Must do.  However also think corns, overlaid bars, and LGL.  None of which are regularly thought about by many.  So at some point get the shoes off and have a good look before they go back on (or even keep them off...............)


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## floradora09 (13 September 2010)

Ok, thanks very much everyone! It's certainly not a naughty 'get out of it' thing, I just wonder if maybe my contact isn't even enough for him so he's bobbing about a bit trying to find it. Obviously if he needs looking at he needs looking at, but I think the point my instructor was trying to make was that it would be better to stay conservative, as he's an older horse and is bound to have a couple of issues. I'll talk to my instructor next weekend when I see her about it, as she knows him very well and is a lot more knowledgable horsewoman than I am! xx


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## floradora09 (13 September 2010)

LucyPriory said:



			Agree with vet.  Must do.  However also think corns, overlaid bars, and LGL.  None of which are regularly thought about by many.  So at some point get the shoes off and have a good look before they go back on (or even keep them off...............)
		
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Sorry to be a numpty but what do you mean by LGL?! :embarrassed: Also could you explain a little more about your thoughts of corns and overlaid bars?


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## Daisychain (13 September 2010)

Bute him up for a couple of days, ride him and see if he feels much different? If he does then you will know there is something underlying.


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## LucyPriory (13 September 2010)

floradora09 said:



			Sorry to be a numpty but what do you mean by LGL?! :embarrassed: Also could you explain a little more about your thoughts of corns and overlaid bars?
		
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Don't be embarrassed.  LGL stands for Low Grade Laminitis. Usually not recognised in shod horses.  Barefooters with metabolically sensitive neds are familiar with the signs, which include on/off footiness etc

In a foot where the sole has been allowed to accumulate in the seat of corn or where the shoe is too tightly fitted or a poor shape you can get corns.  These can cause general lameness or more often lameness on corners, circles and hard ground.

Overlaid bars, seen quite a few lately and often tucked underneath is a bit of bruising.  Sometimes a lot of bruising.  Doesn't always happen, but it does happen sometimes.  Frequently seen under shoes.  See http://danceswithgrace.blogspot.com/2009/09/this-is-solar-view-of-graces-near-hind.html where the hoof has recently been deshod.  The overlaid bars are relatively clear (bearing in mind I had to take the shot in the nano second before I got whalloped.)


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## Tnavas (14 September 2010)

I too don't believe in the 'get out of work' stunt, and also not all horses that are unlevel are in pain - sometimes scar tissue prevents a limb from moving fully.

From your description I would think signs of early Navicular Syndrome. However many horses show these symptoms if they are out in the neck or wither. so a chiropractor might make a difference.

Other things to consider - teeth - especially blind wolf teeth - or remnants of, rider sitting crooked or saddle stuffing uneven around withers, (caused by rider mounting from ground)

In dressage they are no longer allowed to say your horse is lame and remove it from the ring - they are allowed to say unlevel and mark down accordingly. I have a friend who events her horse who has an old tendon injury that makes him walk short on one fore limb. She has a letter with her from her vet advising that they have examined the horse and that it is not in pain. Her dressage marks are not usually good but she makes up for it in the jumping phases - extraordinary agile jumper.


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## floradora09 (14 September 2010)

Thanks LucyPriory, will look into that a bit more! That's interesting about the dressage, I presumed that if a horse was seen as unsound they would stop you. My friend who was calling my test said it looked more like he wasn't pushing through behind enough, so when I took my legs off or whatever for a few strides he was dropping a little behind the contact and bobbing about a bit, and she then went on to say that after that I (must have been subconcoiusly!) pushed him on again and he was fine. Does that sound possible? I mean, it sort of ties in with the fact that he doesn't really do it in my flatwork lessons, because the one thing my instructor is always trying to get me to do is use more leg to help get the hind end engaged and swing through the back! Also in the comments section of my dressage sheets the judges were saying that I need to get the hind end engaged, and that he lacked suppleness which blocked the engagement from behind. 

Is navicular manageable? Would he still be able to event (at about Pre-Novice/ possibly but probably not novice?) I don't really know an awful lot about that either, apart from scaring myself reading about it on the internet!

Teeth is something I need to get checked actually, so will look into that as well!


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## misst (14 September 2010)

TBH having had a horse that did similar a lot of people would say "push him on" but the problem is that the horse needs to be "pushed" as he holds back due to discomfort. From what you say he is a schoolmaster who sounds uncomfortable. You need a lameness work up from the vet. Can of worms or not - with respect it seems as if you and your instructor do not want to hear what may be wrong. If he does have navicular syndrome or something similar then you need to think carefully with your vet about jumping and his future. 
Sorry but again unlevel steps = lame = pain For his sake please get a vet.,


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