# Feeling a bit down, told i must  reserve a puppy at 2 weeks old



## Shady (29 June 2017)

I lost my amazing Weimaraner Loki (aka Chuffy Mc Nubbles) recently and i can honestly say that i miss him as much today as i did the day i said goodbye to him. The house has lost all it's life and energy and he was the maddest idiot imaginable . 
  I was delighted and amazed when i found a breeder near me who had his litter sister and a very nice stud , the OH bravely phoned and we were offered first choice from the litter due mid July. Iv'e been quietly excited about the prospect of having a wee mad thing back in the house and have been waiting for a call to say how many pups are showing by xray .
  Instead i got a message this morning saying that at 15 days old the pups will be advertised and i must choose one and reserve it by contract and 300 euro's before this time. I just don't want to do this, am i wrong? i don't know this breeder but i do know that 2 weeks is just a baby, nobody surely knows what quality/size or even health it's going to be at this age.
  I feel a bit gutted about the whole thing, like it's about money and nothing else, the contract is binding too, what happens if i arrive and chosen pup is timid or small or god forbid, ' the enforcer ' 
  I have written back to him saying i am not happy with this as i want a companion not a breeding dog etc and i would not buy this way, 4/5 weeks minimum would be ok but not less. He replied that it was up to me but i would have to take a chance if i didn't want to reserve at 15 days, i haven't responded yet.
 Am i wrong ? Weimaraners are challenging dogs at the best of times, i think i would be a mental case if i took a chance like this???


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## Alec Swan (29 June 2017)

If the breeder has a waiting and willing market place for his pups,  then and if you want one,  you've no choice but to comply.  It isn't unusual and I've bought and paid for pups at the scanning stage (not x-ray!).

Alternatively,  you could always ask him to reserve a bitch pup for you and take what's left.  At 8 weeks,  generally pups are pups and short of colour preferences,  they're all just about the same!  When anyone asks me how I decide upon the pup that I'm going to keep from a litter,  I always quote Bert Gripton &#8230;. "I let everyone take what they want and I keep what's left.  They always leave the best one behind,  I've found"!!

Good Luck! 

Alec.


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## Apercrumbie (29 June 2017)

Many breeders I know have them reserved from birth - it's quite normal I'm afraid. Although surely there must be a way to back out if there isn't a suitable pup?


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## MotherOfChickens (29 June 2017)

I think you have to take a chance if you arent willing to reserve one (and I dont blame you). Are there offspring of this pair about already?


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## Shady (29 June 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			If the breeder has a waiting and willing market place for his pups,  then and if you want one,  you've no choice but to comply.  It isn't unusual and I've bought and paid for pups at the scanning stage (not x-ray!).

Alternatively,  you could always ask him to reserve a bitch pup for you and take what's left.  At 8 weeks,  generally pups are pups and short of colour preferences,  they're all just about the same!  When anyone asks me how I decide upon the pup that I'm going to keep from a litter,  I always quote Bert Gripton . "I let everyone take what they want and I keep what's left.  They always leave the best one behind,  I've found"!!

Good Luck! 

Alec.
		
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Thanks Alec 
I don't really agree with you that at 8 weeks all pups are mostly the same, i bought Loki when he was that age from a litter of 11  and the difference in size, quality and temperament surprised me and the breeder had very definite views about each puppy. Perhaps i am a bit old fashioned now and the world has moved to a point where people don't want to see what they are buying and will take a chance on what they end up with


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## Shady (29 June 2017)

apercrumbie said:



			Many breeders I know have them reserved from birth - it's quite normal I'm afraid. Although surely there must be a way to back out if there isn't a suitable pup?
		
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I thought that  at the worst i could choose  'a male ' from how ever many there were and then go there and choose properly but i have to choose from the  collar colour and bar a health issue i must buy that particular puppy


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## Shady (29 June 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I think you have to take a chance if you arent willing to reserve one (and I dont blame you). Are there offspring of this pair about already?
		
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 Not from this particular mating MOC, the stud is new . xx


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## Moobli (29 June 2017)

I would feel exactly like you Shady.  Unless I was desperate for a pup from that particular pairing and/or knew the breeder really well and trusted them to choose a pup based on my requirements and lifestyle (and even then I wouldn't want a pup chosen until around 5-6 weeks) then I would probably walk away.  

In my experience, booking a pup and even possibly paying a small deposit when the pups are born is usual, but I wouldn't want to choose a pup at two weeks of age - and certainly wouldn't want someone I don't know at all choosing for me.


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## Moobli (29 June 2017)

Sorry for the loss of your other Weim too   Saying goodbye to a best friend is the most difficult thing in the world - and a house most definitely is not a home without a dog x


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## Shady (29 June 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			Sorry for the loss of your other Weim too   Saying goodbye to a best friend is the most difficult thing in the world - and a house most definitely is not a home without a dog x
		
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Thank you WGSD   i didn't post on here at the time, i couldn't believe how much losing him hurt, he was the maddest thing ever but such good fun and so loyal and loving. I tried his breeder first of all but he had sadly died which is a loss over here, he'd been a Weim breeder for over 30 years and always tried to pair a person with the puppy. I guess i am a little disappointed that this breeder doesn't feel the same commitment to both puppy and buyer. xx


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## MurphysMinder (29 June 2017)

I am sorry to hear of the loss of Loki.

I have always asked people to confirm their reservation as soon as the litter is born,  although I tended not to take a deposit, or if I did just a token one,  so wouldn't have a problem with that.  However it does seem strange that they are asking you to make your choice at 2 weeks old.   That  is quite early , they will barely have their eyes open, and with weims I guess there isnt even colour preference to go on.   In fact when I have had people make a preliminary choice at around 4 or 5 weeks I have often steered them in the direction of a different pup at 7 or 8 weeks as the characters start to develop,  as well as the fact that if the breeder is wanting to keep one they probably won't have made their own choice at 2 weeks.     Have you asked the breeder why they want you to choose your pup so early ?


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## MyBoyChe (29 June 2017)

Exactly MM, I put my name to an IWS pup as soon as the litter was born, but as they are identical at birth, bar sex, and even at 8 weeks there is very little to differentiate them, when it came time to collect the pup I allowed the breeder to choose for me.  She knew exactly what I wanted, a pet, and she knew the characters of each pup by then.  I have to say, her choice was spot on and Smurph was a cracking dog from Day 1.  Im not sure Id be too keen to put my name to a specific pup that early but "her litter, her rules" I suppose.


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## chillipup (29 June 2017)

So sorry to hear you lost your boy Shady  

I'm with you on this, I wouldn't be happy about choosing a pup till at least 6 weeks+ unless I knew the breeder well and the pup was exactly what I wanted from that particular breeding. Even then, I'd like to have some choice


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## GirlFriday (29 June 2017)

Honestly... you've lived with a close relative of /every/ pup in this litter... how risky do you think it will be? If you really believe that pups of this litter may have among them some you wouldn't enjoy living with then surely you are looking at the wrong source anyway?

I assume you're not looking to breed(?) so I'd already expect you to be having 'less good' animals from however many anyway (it would be irresponsible of the breeder to do otherwise). So, 'pet' grade animal... what matters?


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## CorvusCorax (29 June 2017)

Nobody would be able to pick a breeding animal at two weeks old either. Why do people regard 'pet' animals as somehow of less value than show, breeding or working dogs? Being a pet is the most important job there is, this is a dog that should be healthy and long lived, of good character and environmentally sound. Not a cast off or lesser animal.
Yes some show or working dogs don't make the grade but I disagree that they are 'just' pets.

I also don't agree they're all the same at that age otherwise why would anyone select a pup for any purpose. Everything I saw in my pup when I first saw him as a pup (I didn't own him initially) came to bear when he was older, for good or ill.

Reservations are one thing but I think it's unreasonable to ask anyone to *select* a pup at two weeks old.

Sorry for your loss Shady. If you're set on this breeding then I'd grin and bear it but it does seem stringent to me.


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## GirlFriday (29 June 2017)

Being a pet is an important job. I have and will (probably) only ever have pet animals. But I do disagree that there are not different (and yes, higher) standards of health etc for breeding. I mean, in an ideal world, we'd all have fantastic animals sitting around neutered on our sofas (etc). But if I had to choose to breed from one animal and have another as a pet I'd pick the 'better' one to breed from for the sake of the breed/puppies.

Sure, 2 weeks is young, but really I don;t see a huge issue. How much time do you expect to spend with an older litter before selecting? I'm guessing less than an hour... which is hardly going to provide a balanced view.


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## Shady (30 June 2017)

MurphysMinder said:



			I am sorry to hear of the loss of Loki.

I have always asked people to confirm their reservation as soon as the litter is born,  although I tended not to take a deposit, or if I did just a token one,  so wouldn't have a problem with that.  However it does seem strange that they are asking you to make your choice at 2 weeks old.   That  is quite early , they will barely have their eyes open, and with weims I guess there isnt even colour preference to go on.   In fact when I have had people make a preliminary choice at around 4 or 5 weeks I have often steered them in the direction of a different pup at 7 or 8 weeks as the characters start to develop,  as well as the fact that if the breeder is wanting to keep one they probably won't have made their own choice at 2 weeks.     Have you asked the breeder why they want you to choose your pup so early ?
		
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Hi MM
 I have asked why so early and he has just said that that's how it is here in France. True to an extent from what i can research and it does make me question the ethics of this sort of breeder .  I agree that leaving a deposit is fine and shows a commitment to buy but to choose from the colour of a collar is very questionable, the collars could be swapped at any time


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## Shady (30 June 2017)

MyBoyChe and ChilliPup ( thank you ChilliPup 
 These are my thoughts too, when i bought Loki the breeder had reserved one to keep, one had an excellent head, one was HUGE, one was finer and Loki just wanted a lap to sit on! he was very affectionate and the breeder felt we would do well together, he could never sit next to you without a paw touching or his head in your lap, but thankfully he had no separation issues or guarding traits. He did however have a horrible habit of dragging  knickers into the kitchen when i had company and waving them around, my bad for being a slob! xx


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## Shady (30 June 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Honestly... you've lived with a close relative of /every/ pup in this litter... how risky do you think it will be? If you really believe that pups of this litter may have among them some you wouldn't enjoy living with then surely you are looking at the wrong source anyway?

I assume you're not looking to breed(?) so I'd already expect you to be having 'less good' animals from however many anyway (it would be irresponsible of the breeder to do otherwise). So, 'pet' grade animal... what matters?
		
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related to the mum, dad is an unknown and it can make a huge difference who the stud is
I don't really understand this comment GirlFriday  , how would the breeder even know at 2 weeks who was ' good' or ' pet '


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## Auslander (30 June 2017)

Shady said:



			the collars could be swapped at any time
		
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They could ;-)


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## CorvusCorax (30 June 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Being a pet is an important job. I have and will (probably) only ever have pet animals. But I do disagree that there are not different (and yes, higher) standards of health etc for breeding. I mean, in an ideal world, we'd all have fantastic animals sitting around neutered on our sofas (etc). But if I had to choose to breed from one animal and have another as a pet I'd pick the 'better' one to breed from for the sake of the breed/puppies.

Sure, 2 weeks is young, but really I don;t see a huge issue. How much time do you expect to spend with an older litter before selecting? I'm guessing less than an hour... which is hardly going to provide a balanced view.
		
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I'd spend a lot longer than an hour to select a dog that I want to live with me for over a decade. And no I don't think pet owners should accept lower health standards....why on earth should a family accept/pay for a dog that may have (hypothetically and not talking about this case) a nervy temperament, travel sickness, allergies, unsoundness...all things that will impact on a pet/family life.
I'd still like to see anyone pick 'the best' breeding animal at two weeks old.


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## Archangel (30 June 2017)

I would stick with the original plan and see the puppies when you want to.  Sure some or even all may have been sold but you buying what you want how you want.  Perhaps another litter will come up with a bit more flexibility.  I am not one to rush at things.

I'm sorry for the loss of Loki.


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## Shady (30 June 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			Nobody would be able to pick a breeding animal at two weeks old either. Why do people regard 'pet' animals as somehow of less value than show, breeding or working dogs? Being a pet is the most important job there is, this is a dog that should be healthy and long lived, of good character and environmentally sound. Not a cast off or lesser animal.
Yes some show or working dogs don't make the grade but I disagree that they are 'just' pets.

I also don't agree they're all the same at that age otherwise why would anyone select a pup for any purpose. Everything I saw in my pup when I first saw him as a pup (I didn't own him initially) came to bear when he was older, for good or ill.

Reservations are one thing but I think it's unreasonable to ask anyone to *select* a pup at two weeks old.

Sorry for your loss Shady. If you're set on this breeding then I'd grin and bear it but it does seem stringent to me.
		
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 Thanks CC , i don't think i am willing to grin and bear it  , it's too important and Weims can be very different. This is a 
'chasse x beauty( show?) mating rather than pure chasse lines. Loki was chasse. They are very different here( or should be ) 
 I have spoken to another breeder now who is also a vet! it's possible that he has a really , really nice puppy available as the buyer is having marital problems and may not take the pup( he would prefer this i think), he's not of Loki's line but he's lovely and i can see already that he is going to have a very handsome head!!! i won't know til Monday.  x


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## Patchworkpony (30 June 2017)

I pulled out from a health tested spaniel litter as I had to reserve and put money down the day they were born! All about money. The joke is she then had to advertise most of the litter on a Facebook site. Always go with your gut feeling - it's usually right.


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## Shady (30 June 2017)

Archangel said:



			I would stick with the original plan and see the puppies when you want to.  Sure some or even all may have been sold but you buying what you want how you want.  Perhaps another litter will come up with a bit more flexibility.  I am not one to rush at things.

I'm sorry for the loss of Loki.
		
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Thanks Angelcake 
 You are right of course!( but now i really want Mr Vet to phone me so i can see his puppy ) lol that sounds rude


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## Moobli (30 June 2017)

Shady said:



			Thanks CC , i don't think i am willing to grin and bear it  , it's too important and Weims can be very different. This is a 
'chasse x beauty( show?) mating rather than pure chasse lines. Loki was chasse. They are very different here( or should be ) 
 I have spoken to another breeder now who is also a vet! it's possible that he has a really , really nice puppy available as the buyer is having marital problems and may not take the pup( he would prefer this i think), he's not of Loki's line but he's lovely and i can see already that he is going to have a very handsome head!!! i won't know til Monday.  x
		
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Fingers crossed for this pup, as it sounds like it may be a much better prospect all round.


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## Moobli (30 June 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			I'd spend a lot longer than an hour to select a dog that I want to live with me for over a decade. And no I don't think pet owners should accept lower health standards....why on earth should a family accept/pay for a dog that may have (hypothetically and not talking about this case) a nervy temperament, travel sickness, allergies, unsoundness...all things that will impact on a pet/family life.
I'd still like to see anyone pick 'the best' breeding animal at two weeks old.
		
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Couldn't agree more.  Being a family or companion dog is one of the most demanding roles for a dog in today's modern society.  So much is expected from them.  Families and those wanting a companion animal should demand equally high standards of health and temperament as those wanting a worker, sport or show dog.


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## Roxylola (30 June 2017)

I chose my spaniel at 2 weeks, it helped that she was one of only 2 girls available and I wanted a girl.  It could be the case that the breeder only has one boy and your decision is made anyway.  The other girl had more white than mine and that was the only basis for me choosing her.  By 8 weeks when I picked her up I am not sure I would have chosen her as she looked much more like a show type spaniel - mum was working bred dad show bred - and I was definite I wanted a worker but by then the others had all gone.  She grew up much more of a worker, and the 2 week old dog was more representative of what she became than the 8 week old!


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## Shady (30 June 2017)

Patchworkpony said:



			I pulled out from a health tested spaniel litter as I had to reserve and put money down the day they were born! All about money. The joke is she then had to advertise most of the litter on a Facebook site. Always go with your gut feeling - it's usually right.
		
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You are right P and this is what my gut tells me about this breeder and i am sorry that you had that experience . I don't know why but it went from him being pleased that i had particularly chosen him , all gushy and oh madame you can have pick of the litter to tough shyte, choose or lose!
 Mr Vet has just left me a nice message saying that he has another litter due mid/end July, i can visit any time he is home to see his other dogs and he starts to let people see the pups at 6 weeks, he will reserve earlier but prefers not to, pups leave at 2 1/2 months.He has another male puppy at the moment that he really likes and is torn between keeping so it's possible he may have 2 that i can see next week or i can wait for the next litter
 Am feeling a little happier now and all your reply's have helped me a lot
many thanks


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## Moobli (30 June 2017)

That is really positive news about Mr Vet and his dogs.  Let us know how you get on.


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## Patchworkpony (30 June 2017)

Shady said:



			You are right P and this is what my gut tells me about this breeder and i am sorry that you had that experience . I don't know why but it went from him being pleased that i had particularly chosen him , all gushy and oh madame you can have pick of the litter to tough shyte, choose or lose!
 Mr Vet has just left me a nice message saying that he has another litter due mid/end July, i can visit any time he is home to see his other dogs and he starts to let people see the pups at 6 weeks, he will reserve earlier but prefers not to, pups leave at 2 1/2 months.He has another male puppy at the moment that he really likes and is torn between keeping so it's possible he may have 2 that i can see next week or i can wait for the next litter
 Am feeling a little happier now and all your reply's have helped me a lot
many thanks 

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 I am glad it helped. Funnily enough the time wouldn't have been right for our puppy as it happens because we have just bought two lovely mini foals which are coming in the autumn so I now think next spring would be much better for a puppy. There is often a reason why these things happen and one thing I've learnt as I've got older is never be in too much of a hurry. I have had to wait two years to get the mini breeding and colours I wanted but I'm so glad I stuck it out. You WILL find the right dog - often they find you!


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## MotherOfChickens (30 June 2017)

new breeder sounds much more suitable  good luck and keep us posted!


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## Ddraig_wen (30 June 2017)

Shady said:



			MyBoyChe and ChilliPup ( thank you ChilliPup 
 These are my thoughts too, when i bought Loki the breeder had reserved one to keep, one had an excellent head, one was HUGE, one was finer and Loki just wanted a lap to sit on! he was very affectionate and the breeder felt we would do well together, he could never sit next to you without a paw touching or his head in your lap, but thankfully he had no separation issues or guarding traits. He did however have a horrible habit of dragging  knickers into the kitchen when i had company and waving them around, my bad for being a slob! xx
		
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My collie loves to do this


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## FinnishLapphund (30 June 2017)

I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope that regardless who you buy from, that you find what you're looking for. 

Personally, I once picked out a puppy when she was only 1 week old, and it went so well, that I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. It happened many years ago, when I went and looked at a Norwegian Buhund litter. As said, they were only 1 week old, I decided that I wanted Humla, paid a deposit, and 7 weeks later, I picked her up. I loved her so much, and even though it is now around 9 years since she died, I still miss her. By the way, I had a feeling that she would turn out to be a good looking bitch, and she became a Swedish Show Champion. 

Thinking about it a bit more, as I recall, I think I chose Nessie when she was around 5 weeks old, Thera when she was 8 weeks, Raya when she was 4 to 5 weeks, Humla when she was 1 week, and Jonna when she was 4 weeks. The only one which it sadly didn't go well with, was with Thera, who was 8 weeks when I chose between her, and 1 unsold sister. Thera turned out to have both health, and other problems, and had to be euthanised when she was only a bit over 2 years old.

Beata and Blomma is Jonna's daughters, and I felt quite certain that I knew in about how both they, and their brother, would turn out to be as adults, from around 2 to 3 weeks of age. I wasn't wrong about either of the 3 of them. 

Anyhow, if your gut feeling tells you the newer option is better, I hope that is where you find your new dog.


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## Apercrumbie (30 June 2017)

Shady that sounds like a much better solution. It may also be worth seeing if the other breeder still has any available at 6 weeks - I don't think his approach is unusual for France (admittedly I wasn't dog-hunting when I lived there so my experience is limited) and so I wouldn't judge him too harshly. You will know if the pup is for you so won't just fall for a cute puppy.


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## GirlFriday (30 June 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			I'd spend a lot longer than an hour to select a dog that I want to live with me for over a decade. And no I don't think pet owners should accept lower health standards....why on earth should a family accept/pay for a dog that may have (hypothetically and not talking about this case) a nervy temperament, travel sickness, allergies, unsoundness...all things that will impact on a pet/family life.
I'd still like to see anyone pick 'the best' breeding animal at two weeks old.
		
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I'd be impressed that anyone could (within whatever time you usually spend at a breeders'?) check a pup for travel sickness, allergies etc. Do you actually ask to see the litter popped in a car for a quick spin?

I'm not sure what age it was identified but the breeder of a pedigree I dog I had via a rehome (got in touch to find out about his history) was quite open about the fact he wouldn't have met the standards for showing (too big for the breed) and so had been sold as a pet rather than kept/sold for breeding. I don't know exactly what age that was at but TBH I didn't/don't really have an issue with that. He was a great pet but wouldn't have been 'right' for breeding or showing of the breed he was.



Shady said:



			related to the mum, dad is an unknown and it can make a huge difference who the stud is
I don't really understand this comment GirlFriday  , how would the breeder even know at 2 weeks who was ' good' or ' pet '
		
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As above - could just be a question of not being true to type/meeting breed standard. TBH I'd hope that anyone thinking of future generations would also be aiming for healthy though.

In terms of the temperament - how much time would one be spending with the litter/parents at any point anyway?

I made my last dog decision in less than 60seconds based on previous conversations/breeding/initial impression. It was fine. No better/worse than the rehome I'd known for 7 yrs! But then a range of different things would have been fine. And in that instance I wasn't paying a great deal (my own travel costs, not a large purchase fee).

Anyway I hope you get the experience and dog you want OP.


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## CorvusCorax (30 June 2017)

Yes I would take one or other of them in the car for a spin. Not the whole litter at once. Travel sickness can be a big signpost of insecurity and environmental sensitivity in later life.
And yes I would want to see or spend time with the litter in its entirety and one or both of the parents. Genetics are hugely important.

I do totally agree with some of your other points as most of my dogs have been sold as not suitable for showing. But I don't agree that they are somehow 'lesser' animals.


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## Cinnamontoast (30 June 2017)

I'm sorry to hear about Loki, Shady. 

The vet's puppies are also forcing you into choosing one pup, maybe a choice of two, so I don't see how that's any better, tbh, unless they're older and the characters are clear. Is the line chasse or pet? Are you happy with the breeding?  

I don't agree with having to choose a pup at 2 weeks. The characters were very clearly different between our two when we went to choose them at 9 weeks and I was glad to be able to choose what I wanted as opposed to a random pup. I'd hate to have two like Zak, love him tho I do, he's bloody hard work.


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## Shady (1 July 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			I'm sorry to hear about Loki, Shady. 

The vet's puppies are also forcing you into choosing one pup, maybe a choice of two, so I don't see how that's any better, tbh, unless they're older and the characters are clear. Is the line chasse or pet? Are you happy with the breeding?  

I don't agree with having to choose a pup at 2 weeks. The characters were very clearly different between our two when we went to choose them at 9 weeks and I was glad to be able to choose what I wanted as opposed to a random pup. I'd hate to have two like Zak, love him tho I do, he's bloody hard work.
		
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Thanks CTxx
Loki was pure chasse, they have a distinctive look that i like. Monsieur  Vets are chasse and are ready to leave home next week. I would therefore be able to have a good look at both of them and his other dogs. The breeder i wanted to buy from because of the Loki connection has a mix, chasse on the female side( Loki's sister), a more sporty, narrower look on the male side. The stud is young, first mating i think. 
A friend of mine chose 2 Lab x Beauceron pups at 3 weeks, never seen such different dogs, one was fat and lazy, the other a complete nightmare ! 
 I am going to ponder on it all this weekend, the OH is pretty narky with the breeder now, he phoned him last night to question the 2 week thing again in relation to his pricing of the puppies. He is asking a set price which is actually very high( nearly £1000) so again my question would be why would i pay top money for a 2 week pup who could or could not be breed / show/ pet quality.
 I am more confused by the minute!!!!!


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## MotherOfChickens (1 July 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			Yes I would take one or other of them in the car for a spin. Not the whole litter at once. Travel sickness can be a big signpost of insecurity and environmental sensitivity in later life.
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really? I've not heard that before. My setter had travel sickness for a short while-you couldn't meet a bolder pup or adult. Quarrie was very car sick for about the first 6 weeks and while not the boldest pup (was determined to not go there again lol) he's not exactly insecure or reactive. Fitz was travel sick for about the first week or so but yes, his mind was blown. I always thought with very young pups it was an inner ear development issue that they mostly grew out of. Both dogs travel extremely well, they have to, I couldn't have a dog that didn't, so I did spend a lot of time getting them happy in it. Given my experiences i'd expect a pup to be car sick-I've only had one that wasn't and he was fairly mental in all other ways.


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## CorvusCorax (1 July 2017)

My dog travels very well now. It's manifested itself in other areas. He wasn't sick as in bokey, just insanely drooly, his legs were saturated. It's definitely something I'd be on the lookout for next time.


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## Leo Walker (1 July 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			really? I've not heard that before. My setter had travel sickness for a short while-you couldn't meet a bolder pup or adult. Quarrie was very car sick for about the first 6 weeks and while not the boldest pup (was determined to not go there again lol) he's not exactly insecure or reactive. Fitz was travel sick for about the first week or so but yes, his mind was blown. I always thought with very young pups it was an inner ear development issue that they mostly grew out of. Both dogs travel extremely well, they have to, I couldn't have a dog that didn't, so I did spend a lot of time getting them happy in it. Given my experiences i'd expect a pup to be car sick-I've only had one that wasn't and he was fairly mental in all other ways.
		
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Pretty much identical to me, even down to deliberately picking not picking the boldest pup in the litter as I wanted an easier life this time around :lol: Although the pup has never been remotely car sick in any shape or form.


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## Mister Ted (1 July 2017)

Does the Breed Society not have a rehoming scheme rather than a puppy.?


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## MotherOfChickens (1 July 2017)

Mister Ted said:



			Does the Breed Society not have a rehoming scheme rather than a puppy.?
		
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maybe shady wants a puppy?


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## Cinnamontoast (1 July 2017)

Mister Ted said:



			Does the Breed Society not have a rehoming scheme rather than a puppy.?
		
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MotherOfChickens said:



			maybe shady wants a puppy?
		
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Plus she's not in the UK.


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## GirlFriday (1 July 2017)

I assumed Mister Ted meant so that there is no issue with picking a pup. Adult dog so can see as much as ever...


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## Shady (2 July 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			I assumed Mister Ted meant so that there is no issue with picking a pup. Adult dog so can see as much as ever...
		
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 knowing this breed as i do i would not be keen on taking on an adult rescue , unless they are brought up with cats they are not very trustworthy with them and i have 6. They are a challenging breed and most that are in rescues have some pretty bad behavior problems, a friend of mine did it with an apparently well balanced dog and the result was catastrophic, not saying that is always the case and i have rescued many animals, but with cats , horses and another dog i would prefer to get a puppy


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## Mister Ted (3 July 2017)

Shady said:



			knowing this breed as i do i would not be keen on taking on an adult rescue , unless they are brought up with cats they are not very trustworthy with them and i have 6. They are a challenging breed and most that are in rescues have some pretty bad behavior problems, a friend of mine did it with an apparently well balanced dog and the result was catastrophic, not saying that is always the case and i have rescued many animals, but with cats , horses and another dog i would prefer to get a puppy
		
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Point taken about the qualities of the breed.Its a pity the breeder is asking to reserve at such a young age.I wonder why there is such a demand for the type.?


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## Shady (3 July 2017)

Mister Ted said:



			Point taken about the qualities of the breed.Its a pity the breeder is asking to reserve at such a young age.I wonder why there is such a demand for the type.?
		
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That's a really good point Mr Ted and because i am miffed about the whole thing iv'e been digging on the net and looking at breeders sites etc. It's been very interesting!
Firstly, most breeders advertise that they are a great family dog, easy to train( god above!), perfect with anything that flies , crawls etc, wonderful with small furry things , children and other bolox like that. Some of that is true of course but this is not an easy breed as you probably know and they don't seem to separate pure chasse lines, in fact they don't seem to see the difference or even care.
 Secondly and the thing i found most disheartening. The pups are advertised on free sites for as much money as possible at 2 weeks old, you reserve by collar colour and send 30-50%, sign a contract etc. 2/3 weeks later pups are reduced in price and continue to be reduced until all are spoken for. I have no idea how people choose a pup good enough for breeding like this.
  In between are the few breeders who wait and do it properly and you get a choice( there are not many)
Then there are all the rest who buy pure race with papers etc and churn out puppies with no pedigrees attached to them, they have found a sneaky way around the new laws by asking for a 'donation' .
And of course don't forget all the breeders who sell exclusively to pet shops/shows over here
 This applies to every breed of dog and cat that i could find.
Sometimes i really do despair after finding stuff out like this 

I am going to see Mr Vets   2pups tomorrow morning, he sent me a video and they look wonderful!


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## Widgeon (3 July 2017)

Shady said:



			Secondly and the thing i found most disheartening. The pups are advertised on free sites for as much money as possible at 2 weeks old, you reserve by collar colour and send 30-50%, sign a contract etc. 2/3 weeks later pups are reduced in price and continue to be reduced until all are spoken for. I have no idea how people choose a pup good enough for breeding like this.
		
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That's pretty depressing. Although surely with that system, it's just pot luck and you'd have just as much chance of getting a good one by waiting until they were older (and cheaper) and then going in person to see if there was anything nice among the leftovers?

Best of luck tomorrow, it sounds like a much more promising situation


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## Mister Ted (3 July 2017)

Shady said:



			That's a really good point Mr Ted and because i am miffed about the whole thing iv'e been digging on the net and looking at breeders sites etc. It's been very interesting!
Firstly, most breeders advertise that they are a great family dog, easy to train( god above!), perfect with anything that flies , crawls etc, wonderful with small furry things , children and other bolox like that. Some of that is true of course but this is not an easy breed as you probably know and they don't seem to separate pure chasse lines, in fact they don't seem to see the difference or even care.
 Secondly and the thing i found most disheartening. The pups are advertised on free sites for as much money as possible at 2 weeks old, you reserve by collar colour and send 30-50%, sign a contract etc. 2/3 weeks later pups are reduced in price and continue to be reduced until all are spoken for. I have no idea how people choose a pup good enough for breeding like this.
  In between are the few breeders who wait and do it properly and you get a choice( there are not many)
Then there are all the rest who buy pure race with papers etc and churn out puppies with no pedigrees attached to them, they have found a sneaky way around the new laws by asking for a 'donation' .
And of course don't forget all the breeders who sell exclusively to pet shops/shows over here
 This applies to every breed of dog and cat that i could find.
Sometimes i really do despair after finding stuff out like this 

I am going to see Mr Vets   2pups tomorrow morning, he sent me a video and they look wonderful!
		
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I dont know the breed but some unscrupulous breeders are out to make a heck of a lot of money without the dogs welfare in focus (genes etc) as you point out.I wouldnt dream of buying from such breeders. I am a Cairn terrier owner and have kept them for 30yrs.My first puppy came from a reputable breeder.We saw the parents of our chosen pup at 7 wks. and took her home around 8 or 9 wks. After a wonderful 18 yrs. we had her p.t.s.after a short illnes. I contacted the breeder with the sad news and recieved a lovely letter in return. My last two Cairns were adults from the Cairn Rescue uk. Both happily had been well loved and trained.. one had to be trained to accept cats and they eventually ended up sleeping in the same basket.  
My point is if you are unhappy with this breeder which by the sound of her is just in it for the money, speak your mind to her and say you will look elsewhere. I would not keep these people in business by parting with  hundreds of pounds if you are not totally satisfied with. What if you had a follow up problem would they be concerned.? I dont think so.


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## Cinnamontoast (8 July 2017)

Can we please have an update, Shady?


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## Shady (8 July 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			Can we please have an update, Shady?
		
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Hi CT 
I really wanted to do a new post with some pics but i'm ashamed to say that i'm not very good on a pc and can't work out how to put photo's from my laptop onto here 
 I traveled  for hours deep into the countryside to find Mr Vets house, maddest journey iv'e ever had, went through tunnels and huge gorges, massive valleys and over wonderful rivers, saw castles and medieval villages hanging off the sides of cliffs and finally at the end of a winding road was a mostly derelict hamlet overlooking an enormous  valley and 2 stunning Weim pups were running around with their mum!! I fell in love with one of them instantly, he is called Nickel, pronounced Neeck-el. He's 9 weeks old, house trained , socialised , calm, confident and attentive already, he won't win anything for conformation but he is beautiful and very loving. I completely adore him already . Mr Vet was charming and so happy that we wanted Nickel he reduced the price to almost nothing 
  As i am writing this ( in bed) i have my beautiful big french hound asleep in one bed and little pup next to her in his, neither will stir till morning 
 Perfect...........
xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Leo Walker (8 July 2017)

Brilliant news! If you want to msg me your email me I can post the pics for you or talk you through how to do it


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## Chiffy (9 July 2017)

Great news Shady, followed your post although I didn't comment. I agreed with your sentiments about the first breeder and am glad you have found a lovely pup.
I collect a flatcoat pup next week, I chose her at five weeks and paid a deposit. It was a bit young but you could see small differences. The breeder of my two current dogs bred the Mother, and I know the father , so all rather different.
Have a wonderful time with your new family member.


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## Shady (9 July 2017)

Chiffy said:



			Great news Shady, followed your post although I didn't comment. I agreed with your sentiments about the first breeder and am glad you have found a lovely pup.
I collect a flatcoat pup next week, I chose her at five weeks and paid a deposit. It was a bit young but you could see small differences. The breeder of my two current dogs bred the Mother, and I know the father , so all rather different.
Have a wonderful time with your new family member.
		
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 Thanks Chiffy! how lovely that you will also have a new pup in your life  i hope she is as wonderful as my little chap seems to be. Leo Walker is going to pop a photo on, i'm just going to send it to her.  I have a cat breeder friend who iv'e known for over 30 years, iv'e had kittens from her with her choosing them and i trust her completely but i really felt strongly about buying a Weim pup at 2 weeks old from somebody i don't know. Very best of luck to you with your new girl xxx Pics please


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## satinbaze (9 July 2017)

Chiffy said:



			Great news Shady, followed your post although I didn't comment. I agreed with your sentiments about the first breeder and am glad you have found a lovely pup.
I collect a flatcoat pup next week, I chose her at five weeks and paid a deposit. It was a bit young but you could see small differences. The breeder of my two current dogs bred the Mother, and I know the father , so all rather different.
Have a wonderful time with your new family member.
		
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Happy days Chiffy. Baby flatcoat pictures demanded.........Please


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## Archangel (9 July 2017)

Shady said:



			Hi CT 
As i am writing this ( in bed) i have my beautiful big french hound asleep in one bed and little pup next to her in his, neither will stir till morning 
 Perfect...........

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OMG I love a happy ending


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## Clodagh (9 July 2017)

Fantastic, baby dogs all round. So pleased for both of you, Shady and Chiffy.


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## Mister Ted (9 July 2017)

Pleased its a happy outcome Shady.and lovely M. Vet has taken the time to house train him too. Happy days.!


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## Moobli (9 July 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			My dog travels very well now. It's manifested itself in other areas. He wasn't sick as in bokey, just insanely drooly, his legs were saturated. It's definitely something I'd be on the lookout for next time.
		
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I'd be very interested to know what other behaviours your dog shows that you attribute to his early car sickness.  

I think there is travel/motion sickness (which a lot of pups briefly go through) and then there are dogs who are phobic about travel which takes it to a whole other level.


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## Moobli (9 July 2017)

Shady said:



			Hi CT 
I really wanted to do a new post with some pics but i'm ashamed to say that i'm not very good on a pc and can't work out how to put photo's from my laptop onto here 
 I traveled  for hours deep into the countryside to find Mr Vets house, maddest journey iv'e ever had, went through tunnels and huge gorges, massive valleys and over wonderful rivers, saw castles and medieval villages hanging off the sides of cliffs and finally at the end of a winding road was a mostly derelict hamlet overlooking an enormous  valley and 2 stunning Weim pups were running around with their mum!! I fell in love with one of them instantly, he is called Nickel, pronounced Neeck-el. He's 9 weeks old, house trained , socialised , calm, confident and attentive already, he won't win anything for conformation but he is beautiful and very loving. I completely adore him already . Mr Vet was charming and so happy that we wanted Nickel he reduced the price to almost nothing 
  As i am writing this ( in bed) i have my beautiful big french hound asleep in one bed and little pup next to her in his, neither will stir till morning 
 Perfect...........
xxxxxxxxxxx
		
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What a wonderfully evocative description of your journey.  Sounds magical!  And the pup sounds like he was made for you.  Look forward to seeing photos.  (I haven't read the whole thread yet though ... so hoping there might be some further down)


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## Leo Walker (9 July 2017)

Just posted pics in a new thread. But I'll add them here to as thinking about it, I should just have put them here, duh!


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## Chiffy (9 July 2017)

Lovely pictures Leo, thank you for posting for Shady.

Jennbags is our chief poster so I hoping she will be back from holiday when I start a baby flatcoat thread.

Love more pictures as your baby grows Shady, they can go on the other thread Leo started.


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## Cinnamontoast (9 July 2017)

Shady said:



			Hi CT 
I really wanted to do a new post with some pics but i'm ashamed to say that i'm not very good on a pc and can't work out how to put photo's from my laptop onto here 
 I traveled  for hours deep into the countryside to find Mr Vets house, maddest journey iv'e ever had, went through tunnels and huge gorges, massive valleys and over wonderful rivers, saw castles and medieval villages hanging off the sides of cliffs and finally at the end of a winding road was a mostly derelict hamlet overlooking an enormous  valley and 2 stunning Weim pups were running around with their mum!! I fell in love with one of them instantly, he is called Nickel, pronounced Neeck-el. He's 9 weeks old, house trained , socialised , calm, confident and attentive already, he won't win anything for conformation but he is beautiful and very loving. I completely adore him already . Mr Vet was charming and so happy that we wanted Nickel he reduced the price to almost nothing 
  As i am writing this ( in bed) i have my beautiful big french hound asleep in one bed and little pup next to her in his, neither will stir till morning 
 Perfect...........
xxxxxxxxxxx
		
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Omg, I would have loved that road trip!! It sounds like a fabulous adventure with the prize of a very handsome pup at the end of it. He's absolutely gorgeous! Is he docked? There are 2 round here that are, I didn't realise they were supposed to be, or maybe they've suffered an injury? Am clueless on the breed, but yours is beautiful!


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## Cinnamontoast (9 July 2017)

Chiffy said:



			Great news Shady, followed your post although I didn't comment. I agreed with your sentiments about the first breeder and am glad you have found a lovely pup.
I collect a flatcoat pup next week, I chose her at five weeks and paid a deposit. It was a bit young but you could see small differences. The breeder of my two current dogs bred the Mother, and I know the father , so all rather different.
Have a wonderful time with your new family member.
		
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I fear I will be extremely jealous! I absolutely love the look of flatcoats. Zak used to have a flatcoat friend, he had a very similar shaped head to him, weird!


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## Shady (9 July 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			Omg, I would have loved that road trip!! It sounds like a fabulous adventure with the prize of a very handsome pup at the end of it. He's absolutely gorgeous! Is he docked? There are 2 round here that are, I didn't realise they were supposed to be, or maybe they've suffered an injury? Am clueless on the breed, but yours is beautiful!
		
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Thanks CT 
Iv'e been to some crazy places since moving to France but nothing as dramatic as the countryside we drove through that day and to find this hamlet perched on the end of a bluff at the end of it was magical. D'you know iv'e no idea really about docking except they all used to be and now here in France they do both, even within the same litter. The tail is a lethal weapon and quite long , iv'e also noticed that many that are not docked have a lump in them so maybe it's partly medical and partly to safeguard the testicles of the usually male owner   xxx

ps, coz you love France, we were near Brousse-le- Chateau  , postcode 12480      you can google it!!!!


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## Cinnamontoast (9 July 2017)

Thanks, Shady, I'm going to try to persuade the OH to get over his whole 'But I can't speak French' and do a road trip. I don't mind doing the talking!


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## chillipup (9 July 2017)

Ooo what a handsome squidgy boy, he's delicious Shady, congratulations


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