# Looking for you STOLEN



## Bettwho (10 September 2010)

GWEN now known as shantie last seen on isle sheppey 5 yr old black welsh section d ,white blaze to face and 2 white socks.  Was sold from livery eligallly.

Been through several hands all traced. have found present people who have her approched them with her passport to which they went straight out and had her chipped . NOW TRYING TO GET HER BACK POLICE DONT WANT TO KNOW SAY IT A CIVIL MATTER.


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## Tinseltoes (10 September 2010)

Go to horsewatch for help.


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## Bug2007 (10 September 2010)

Being chipped doesn't make her thiers.
You have the passport. She is yours.
Seek advise from Horsewatch. Should beable to tell you how to proceed from here.

Good Luck on getting her back.


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## Bettwho (10 September 2010)

Do you have email for horse watch have tried sending keeps coming back, how did the vet issue id passport should they not have checked ownership.


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## Libbylou (10 September 2010)

http://www.ukhorsewatch.org.uk/Map.html

Its a civil matter, you would need to deal with them, they would have to deal with whom they bought it from.

I know a vet who passported a horse at 15 years old it already had a passport that had been " lossed" thats was in 2007, passports came into force 2004. No one will do anything about it ..........

Good luck


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## Bettwho (11 September 2010)

Are you saying that even when you have a passsport they are of no use if know one  takes any notice of them, there must be someone that can help.

Thanks


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## Bettwho (13 September 2010)

Sammii819 said:



			Being chipped doesn't make her thiers.
You have the passport. She is yours.
Seek advise from Horsewatch. Should beable to tell you how to proceed from here.

Good Luck on getting her back.
		
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Hi 
Got in touch with horsewatch as you surrgested they have advised me that they cannot get involved with this situation as the police were involved i thought that they worked together.   Maybe that is the problem.  

Note: i was told today that passports were brought  out to assist with the food chain ( so that no animals that had received bute etc in they medication could go into the food chain ) So is anyones passport any good?  Cheers


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## MHOL (13 September 2010)

Bettwho said:



			Hi 
Got in touch with horsewatch as you surrgested they have advised me that they cannot get involved with this situation as the police were involved i thought that they worked together.   Maybe that is the problem.  

Note: i was told today that passports were brought  out to assist with the food chain ( so that no animals that had received bute etc in they medication could go into the food chain ) So is anyones passport any good?  Cheers
		
Click to expand...


Can you email us with the whole story, missinghorsesonloan@gmail.com our website is www.missinghorsesonloan.co.uk who did you speak to at Horse Watch?


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## PeterNatt (14 September 2010)

You will need to instruct a specialist equine solicitor to act on your behalf to recover your horse as it is a civil case.  Passports are not proof of ownership.  You can also get her record on the National Equine Database (NED Online) tagged to say that there is a dispute on the horses ownetrship.


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## Rollin (14 September 2010)

In France all horses have two documents - Carte D'Imatriculation is a single sheet with horse m/chip and French Dbase number on it.  This is the ownership document and that is returned to Haras Nationaux who keep a register of ALL horses on change of ownership.  

IMO this is an excellent system.


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## Bettwho (14 September 2010)

MHOL said:



			Can you email us with the whole story, missinghorsesonloan@gmail.com our website is www.missinghorsesonloan.co.uk who did you speak to at Horse Watch?[/QUOT


Will do didn't actually speak to any one all done on line but will send you the name with my email.

Thanks.

Click to expand...


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## Luci07 (14 September 2010)

You said your mare was sold illegally - was this to cover outstanding livery bills? because if that is the case, it does skew the chances of getting her back..


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## MHOL (14 September 2010)

Luci07 said:



			You said your mare was sold illegally - was this to cover outstanding livery bills? because if that is the case, it does skew the chances of getting her back..
		
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But did the livery follow the correct procedure? You cannot just sell a horse that doesn't belong to you because someone owes you money.

Ask H&H: pursuing unpaid livery fees
A horse being loaded onto a lorry

Kathy Carter

Is it possible for a yard owner to claim a livery's horse in lieu of unpaid debts?
More articles on livery yards

Get legal advice

Q: I run a livery business from my farm and have recently experienced difficulties with a horse owner being unable to pay their livery fees.

I am worried that the owner will simply leave the yard without settling their debts. I believe I can claim their horse in lieu of their debts; can I do this or what are the alternatives?

MB, Leicestershire

Under English law, the claiming of a horse as you describe is referred to as "a right of lien", whereby you are at liberty to retain goods until a bad debt is settled.

However, according to Kerry Humble of Blake Lapthorn solicitors, in the absence of a livery agreement, the law does not imply the right of lien into any agreement you and the owner may have.

"Far better is to pre-empt the situation before large amounts of money start accruing, and have a livery agreement drawn up that includes a lien over owners, horses or goods kept at the yard," Kerry said.

"It is advisable to include the 'power of sale' in an agreement, so you can unequivocally sell such items to settle debts.

"However, it is important that the agreement is specific as to the terms of credit and when payment is due; for example, is it monthly, weekly, etc."

In these uncertain economic times, it is important to keep an eye on unpaid accounts, so that large debts &#8212; which in some cases could outweigh the value of the horse, especially in today's falling market &#8212; do not accumulate.

"Within an agreement, you can clearly define your terms of business and state what is and isn't included in the livery service," said Kerry.

"I would also suggest you ask for one month's payment in advance from your liveries, or even a returnable deposit should an owner decide to leave the yard.

"A clear agreement will not only benefit your business, but also your owners, as there should be no disagreement as to what the livery fee includes."

Without an agreement, you may have to seek your livery's debts (up to £5,000) through the county court small claims track.

"However, each party has to meet their own legal costs," said Kerry. "Court fees and witness expenses are recoverable by the successful party."

Information

Blake Lapthorn, tel: 02380 857108 www.bllaw.co.uk

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

This article was first published in Horse & Hound (21 January, '10)


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## Luci07 (14 September 2010)

Interesting information! I should have been clearer when I posted - unfortunately from reading these posts it would seem that completely legimatate claims are very hard to pursue so if there was any question over monies owing - its made it harder ..


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