# Anyone seen swelling like this?



## TPO (25 January 2021)

Firstly, vet was called immediately this morning and has been. It's kind of been narrowed down to two things but is now a case of wait and see. If the same or worse tomorrow morning then vet to be called to come back. 

"Proper" cellulitis is one of the possibilities however horse not presenting with typical "stovepipe" leg. Swelling isnt really bad until mid cannon up although there is some swelling around fetlock.

An abscess has burst out of his heel bulb too (black dot on heel) but horse had no reactions at all to hoof testers and vet happy that isnt the issue at all. 

The swelling on his gaskin is what is worrying me. That's not typical for cellulitis from what information I can find.

Horse very lame and non weight bearing. He is VERY sore but not distressed/sweating etc but feeling very sorry for himself and being sooky which is very unlike him.

He's had a pain killer and anti inflammatory injected into the vein (2hrs ago, no improvement) along with oral antibiotics. Hes to get 2 x bute tonight along with more anti B then see how he is in the morning.

Since going back in his stable he hasnt even turned himself around to face his hay cube and is just reaching around to get his hay. I've moved water in front of him too. Had to practically drag him into his stable. Even with the others in he didnt want to move.

So the other option being muted is a cracked or fractured tibia. Vet doesnt think he is distressed enough for a break but not ruling it out.

He'll be xrayed tomorrow if no improvement.

So yeah, this is the swelling.


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## doodle (25 January 2021)

I can’t find the picture but Robin had a massive swelling in roughly the same place but more to the inside and higher up. Almost non weight bearing, I found him in the field and took forever to get him in. I panicked and called the vet.  It was cellulitis. The lower leg never swelled. Same treatment as yours but it took a couple of days to start to go down.


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## Pinkvboots (25 January 2021)

That looks like it could be an infection or even an abscess, a friend's horse had a lump like that on her chest and it was an abscess they had to drain it in the end to get rid of it, fingers crossed it's not a fracture or anything really nasty.


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## doodle (25 January 2021)

Found it. It is higher than I remember


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

He had swelling there a couple of years ago Kamikaze but that was a torn grazilious (sp!) muscle

He hasnt moved since getting back in his stable and is reluctant to put his head down so held water up. Hes not urinated all day either, assuming because he cant stand comfortably. He has been drinking.

Phoned vet and waiting on a call back because I'm not happy to leave him like this overnight


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## doodle (25 January 2021)

I had remembered it in a slightly different place. Hope the vet rings you soon.


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## PapaverFollis (25 January 2021)

Ooof. I hope you and the vet can get him sorted TPO. Sounds nasty.  Has he maybe taken a kick? I think I'd want to shave it all and have a good look for thorns or a splinter too?


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## DressageCob (25 January 2021)

My horse had an identical swelling some years ago, but aside from some heat there was nothing untoward. We put it down to a bit of a glancing kick with a bit of a muscle tear, but either my horse is super stoic or it was very minor compared to yours. I hope you get an answer soon. Sounds painful.


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## DressageCob (25 January 2021)

DressageCob said:



			My horse had an identical swelling some years ago, but aside from some heat there was nothing untoward. We put it down to a bit of a glancing kick with a bit of a muscle tear, but either my horse is super stoic or it was very minor compared to yours. I hope you get an answer soon. Sounds painful.
		
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Actually, looking at my photos, mine was a little higher up.


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## ycbm (25 January 2021)

Only with embedded blackthorn,  but very similar looking.


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## ester (25 January 2021)

No experience but I wouldn't want to leave him overnight as you describe either, poor boy.


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## Tiddlypom (25 January 2021)

No experience here either, but I’d be pushing to get the vet out again today, too. 

Fingers firmly crossed that it’s something readily sortable.


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

Vet is pretty sure theres no puncture wounds. No swelling around the joint (hock) either.

Hes got a cut on the back of his fetlock from a couple of weeks ago. It's been kept clean and treated etc but if it is cellulitis that could be an entry point although punctures of mud fever are the most common reasons

Hes not moved in the hour hes been back in his stable. He was outside from this morning to be cold hosed while we waited for the vet

Just got a call back from vet and hes coming tomorrow to xray. Said theres nothing else we can do tonight. If it's not a fracture then we know its "just" an infection.

Just going to give him more bute although he was just jagged at 1.30. Hes worse rather than better since the jag.

Hes got a mild (very mild) sweat so swapped his 200 stable rug for a 100gm. Lower leg is much more swollen.

Away to spoon feed him bute and anti bs just now before he goes off feed even more (was no enthusiastic about an apple 😥)


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## ihatework (25 January 2021)

Blackthorn was one first thought.
Might be overkill but I’d be tempted to close clip the leg and go over it with a microscope! Although will look daft for a bit if there is nothing there!!

ETA if there is a real fracture possibility is it worth cross tying for the night?


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## windand rain (25 January 2021)

I hope he is soon feeling better only seen anything like that on the front leg/ inside elbow so high up. It was a heamatoma from a kick. He might have caught himself and pulled but you woud expect a cut or scratch if that was the case. Mare was off her back leg and not really willing to move due to a UTI but she didnt have any swelling. The unwillingness to move could be aches from a raised temp


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## Red-1 (25 January 2021)

I too would be clipping the hair close off tonight. If there is any skin blemish at all, I would poultice.

Did the vet know he was sweating? With that additional sign I'm surprised he can't have an x ray and antibiotics tonight.

I would be worried all night, so I do feel for you.

ETA - My horses and dogs always sport bald patches if they appear poorly. I need to Geta. good look.


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## Gloi (25 January 2021)

Hope things turn out okay for you both


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

Hes pawing and I think he wants to urinate but wont take weight behind. I told vet that and about light sweat. I've changed his rug down and kept offering him water.

My usual Vet said he'll come at 9.30 tomorrow to xray.

I honestly wouldn't get near him with clippers he is so sore. Vet didnt think that was the issue today, I did suggest a puncture. 

Lower leg swelling is worse and not pitting although I havent been pushing that hard because of how sore he is


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## The Fuzzy Furry (25 January 2021)

TPO, will vet not return as surely he needs more than bute overnight?


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			TPO, will vet not return as surely he needs more than bute overnight?
		
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I've got bute to give him. I was left bute and doxycycline.

Just trying to hand feed bute now because hes not interested in feed. Doxycycline is syringed so fine


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## chaps89 (25 January 2021)

I don't have photos but had a similar swelling slightly further up a few years back, it was a hawthorn embedded in her skin, the top had broken off so it was only visible once given a close shave, though after cold hosing you could feel a bump. Mind you the rest of the leg didn't swell, it was quite localised and she wasn't unwell with it. But blackthorn could induce the poorly side of it.
If he won't eat regular food can you try a jam or honey sandwich or syringing with some yoghurt or similar?
I do hope he's feeling better soon.


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## DressageCob (25 January 2021)

TPO said:



			I've got bute to give him. I was left bute and doxycycline.

Just trying to hand feed bute now because hes not interested in feed. Doxycycline is syringed so fine
		
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I have previously been told to add water to Bute to make a paste and syringe it in. I had a polo pony I groomed for that would not eat it at all, and that's the advice we were given. I used warm water, to make it marginally nicer.


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

Now pus running out of his leg in two places so far.

Is this call the vet again? Poultice? Normal for cellulitis?


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## chaps89 (25 January 2021)

I think I'd be calling the vet again, sorry.


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## Tiddlypom (25 January 2021)

Call the vet, they may be advise over the phone or come out (preferably the second). Push for an emergency call out if you’d prefer it (I would).


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## The Fuzzy Furry (25 January 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Call the vet, they may be advise over the phone or come out (preferably the second). Push for an emergency call out if you’d prefer it (I would).
		
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What she said above.


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

Sorry  battery died. Phoned out of hours and waiting on a call back.

Pus is clear but bright yellow. Two exit points on inside of cannon bone and by the time I prepped a poultice there was pus on outside too. Leg is very swollen, hot and hard...as well as very sore.

I've never dealt with cellulitis before so didnt know if that was normal or not? Asking hho is quicker than google.

Got anti biotic syringed and approx 1.5 sachets of bute. He had some butw in feed too so should equate to two sachets. Will just syringe tomorrows dose


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## doodle (25 January 2021)

Robin has had cellulitis a few times. It never started pouring with pus though. What a worry for you. But I guess that would move away from a fracture.


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

Spoken to my vet and hes on his way. Its serum leaking out the leg not pus, my bad.

Glad it's my vet in call, he's the most thorough vet I've ever had so that's a relief. Will keep you updated.

Thank you for the replies, I really appreciate the help


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## Jeni the dragon (25 January 2021)

No advice but loads of vibes for your poor boy TPO!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (25 January 2021)

Hope vet can ease and resolve, I was going  to correct you but see you've changed it to serum.
Fingers  crossed x


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Hope vet can ease and resolve, I was going  to correct you but see you've changed it to serum.
Fingers  crossed x
		
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Yeah sorry, I was panicking slightly!


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## jnb (25 January 2021)

Fingers crossed for the poor lad - please let us know how he is after the vet has been if you can


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## HollyWoozle (25 January 2021)

Nothing useful to add I'm afraid but just wanted to say I've got my fingers and toes crossed for your boy (and you). x


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## PapaverFollis (25 January 2021)

Fingers crossed for a good outcome,  TPO.  Glad the vet is coming.


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## chaps89 (25 January 2021)

Glad the vet is coming out, and that it's the one you prefer, fingers crossed


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## milliepops (25 January 2021)

Sending *something simple and easily treated* vibes


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## doodle (25 January 2021)

I keep coming back to this every 30 secs to see how things are.


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## Rowreach (25 January 2021)

Only just seen this but very glad the vet is coming back x


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## Midlifecrisis (25 January 2021)

Just caught up TPO...blummin sorry to hear this...have no direct experience of cellulitis but if there’s an abscess lower down infection could be circulating ...vet ll sort it. ..try not to worry too much. I’m sending healing thoughtwaves along the valley to you...


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## Quigleyandme (25 January 2021)

Best wishes TPO.


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## HashRouge (25 January 2021)

Oh TPO I hope he's OK, fingers crossed for him xx


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## Red-1 (25 January 2021)

I am so glad the vet is coming tonight. I was not settled with the thought of leaving him in that state overnight. X


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## PictusSweetDreams (25 January 2021)

Hoping for a good outcome for you both x


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## On the Hoof (25 January 2021)

Only just caught up with this,  Glad the vet is coming back out.  Everything crossed for you.


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

Vet left the back of 9. X rayed in every conceivable angle while Vinnie farted in my face as I held the plate 😏

 Pretty sure theres no fracture but still a risk of one appearing in 10 days time. 
Weighing it up more risky not to treat as cellulitis. 

Doped full of sedative and painkiller. When he comes round in about half an hour to hand walk him out for 15mins thenncold hose 15mins, half hour break and start again x4 then a sloppy feed and more antibiotics but no hay.

 In the morning to have him walked and hosed twice before vet phones at 8.30. Then have him out at least 6-8 times and hosed but the more the better.

 Box rest for at least 10 days (he does NOT stay in alone so have ordered ACPs). Other two staying in tomorrow with him but after that will need to drug him. 

Doesnt even work rotating one in with him because the one out alone doesnt settle and the two in dont settle 😖 So yeah this is going to be fun.

 Mum has done nothing horse/house wise since breaking her wrist in November so somehow have to do this around work as well as deal with the other two. Took today as leave and had a half day tomorrow for planned xrays but will need to make it a full day. Going forward dont know how I'll manage tbh. 

So that was todays fun and excitement. Thanks for the good wishes


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## chaps89 (25 January 2021)

Oh goodness, that's a long cold night for you. I'm glad you have them at home and that the vet came back out, I hope he is a cooperative patient.
Is there any chance of a pen on the yard or in the field if he won't settle to the stable?


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## Tiddlypom (25 January 2021)

Oh gosh.

That’s a tough schedule that you’ve been given.

So pleased that your vet came out and thoroughly checked him out and  x rayed him though. 

All fingers crossed.


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

chaps89 said:



			Oh goodness, that's a long cold night for you. I'm glad you have them at home and that the vet came back out, I hope he is a cooperative patient.
Is there any chance of a pen on the yard or in the field if he won't settle to the stable?
		
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Vet said no to any form of turnout. Unless hes being handwalked hes to be in 🙈


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## doodle (25 January 2021)

Oh gosh what a time of it. Was that Hugh?


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## TPO (25 January 2021)

Kamikaze said:



			Oh gosh what a time of it. Was that Hugh?
		
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Nope. I would never use them


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## doodle (25 January 2021)

TPO said:



			Nope. I would never use them
		
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I’m glad you said that!!


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## chaps89 (25 January 2021)

TPO said:



			Vet said no to any form of turnout. Unless hes being handwalked hes to be in 🙈
		
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Sorry, I meant a stable sized pen in the field so not turnout as such. Although only any good if your ground is alright, the others can't go out of sight and he respects electric fencing I suppose. I can see it would probably be preferable to have him stabled with a supply of ACP


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## The Fuzzy Furry (25 January 2021)

V glad you had vet back, I don't envy you with having this to deal with,  hope he responds x


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## Jeni the dragon (25 January 2021)

I'm so glad he came back out.

Where about are you? Maybe someone could help out?


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## PapaverFollis (25 January 2021)

Glad you've got a plan but that's a very tough schedule to manage alone.  Fingers firmly crossed for a good recovery without finishing you off in the process. x


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## Squeak (25 January 2021)

Is there any chance it could be lymphangitis rather than cellulitis? 

My horse had this last year and was lame in the morning but very poorly by the afternoon with swelling at the top of a back leg. 

The swelling went up the inside of the leg (It want actually hugely noticeable, without looking for it - the first vet missed it) and I think that’s what made the vet think of it being lymphangitis. 

Googling it, it seems you can get pus with it too:

https://wagwalking.com/horse/condition/lymphangitis#symptoms

Your vet may have already ruled it out but thought it was worth mentioning just in case.


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## ycbm (25 January 2021)

Everything here crossed for a better report in the morning TPO.


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## TPO (26 January 2021)

Thanks for the further replies and good wishes. Just tucked him up in bed after following vets orders.

Vet said no to turnout. Our ground is rubbish; either flooded or frozen ruts. I've got mud mats down and put hay along them so they just mooch up and down them. Vet said that's off the table too; hes to be moving to get lymphatic system moving. So brisk walks (they were not brisk tonight, could barely keep him moving and have popped all the muscles in my shoulders. Plus is the middle of the night and ice everywhere) in hand and hes allowed to be hand grazed after his walking sessions. 

Definitely not lymphangistis according to my vet. Hes leaning towards severe cellulitis with still a slight possibility of a fracture. Nothing ties in with it being a fracture so aggressively treating cellulitis.

The swelling was down a tiny bit by the time we finished (Superdad helping). Dreading what he'll be like in the morning so will bute him first thing and give it half an hour before trying to drag him out of the stable again 😣 hes drinking and eating so hopefully hes not top far gone.

Thanks again, I really do appreciate the replies and suggestions. I've never dealt with cellulitis before and everything I've read about it doesnt compare to the first hand horror show!


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## Red-1 (26 January 2021)

If it helps, I once dealt with a horse with huuuuge legs, where they split and oozed serum. It did take a while to resolve, but the horse recovered and lived a long and healthy life. 

Fingers crossed he is a bit better this morning.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 January 2021)

Hoping an improvement overnight x


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## Midlifecrisis (26 January 2021)

That schedule is tough TPO..I hope all the drugs kick in and help relieve things quickly. Freezey fog and snow sprinkling not ideal for cold hosing and brisk walking. Is there a massage technique to help drain lymph glands? Anyhoo healing vibes are being sent....


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## OldNag (26 January 2021)

Just seen this. I have no advice but want to send HHO healing vibes for a less swollen leg today x


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## TPO (26 January 2021)

Thanks, he was worse today. Had went down and bad leg was under him so couldn't get up. He wasn't overly distressed, just stuck. So emergency vet back out as turns out 8 can get 500kg up myself 😏

Vet worried about compartment syndrome eith him being down on that leg. Still really swollen around hock and oozing.

Hes to be walked 15mins, hosed 10mins and then hand grazed every hour all day and as late as I can manage. Just waiting for sedation to wear off.

Vet left 8.30 and he expected him to be up for walking around 9 but its 9.15 & hes still totally out of it.

Jagged with strong sedative, bute, antibiotics and a steroid. 

If theres no big improvement by tomorrow vet said he'll be having a different conversation 😥

So I'll be getting my steps in today 😬

Oh yes conditions are awful. Mix of sheet ice and slippy sludge/frost stuff. Putting sand down to try and get him into a wee paddock. Also moving tractor out to try walking up and down what space is left in the shed


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## PapaverFollis (26 January 2021)

I'm so sorry.  Sending you all the positive vibes.


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## Roxylola (26 January 2021)

Oh gosh TPO, I'm really rooting for him. Hopefully lots of marching today will give you an improvement


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## DabDab (26 January 2021)

Oh TPO, so sorry he's not better this morning, sending vibes that he gets on the mend soon

Cellulitis is horrible, alright if you can catch it in the first hour or so but once it has taken hold it's a nightmare. Just makes you feel helpless as an owner, just pumping the IBs in and hoping. Fingers crossed the drugs start to get on top of the infection soon for Vinne


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## Jeni the dragon (26 January 2021)

Loads of positive vibes for your big guy!


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## Baywonder (26 January 2021)

Oh jeez TPO - I'm sending you every possible healing vibe under the sun. X


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## On the Hoof (26 January 2021)

oh gosh TPO  I am so sorry he hasnt improved overnight.  I will be marching with you in my head today, stay strong and send all my best vibes for you both .


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## Amymay (26 January 2021)

Sending healing and positive vibes TPO xx


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## LeneHorse (26 January 2021)

Sending vibes TPO. What a total nightmare 🙁


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## OrangeAndLemon (26 January 2021)

TPO that sounds like a long day ahead for you. Do you have support to give you some time off?

He's lucky to have you. Utterly impressed with how well you're handling this.


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## ponyparty (26 January 2021)

So sorry to read this, crossing everything that he picks up over the course of the day. Absolute nightmare to manage, and in these weather conditions too. Good luck x


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 January 2021)

TPO,  sending hope xx


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## shamrock2021 (26 January 2021)

Awhile I hope he is okay I nearly lost my horse to cellulitis in her gut.


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## cauda equina (26 January 2021)

So sorry TPO; what a thoroughly horrible business
Keeping everything crossed for you xxx


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## Red-1 (26 January 2021)

Everything crossed for you. X


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## chaps89 (26 January 2021)

Hope he shows some improvement for you today.


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## ester (26 January 2021)

Thinking of you today, def not the weather for it, hope he improves.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (26 January 2021)

So sorry to read this TPO. my horse is incredibly lymphangitis prone (which I understand is the same, but without any visible entry wound) and it's so difficult to manage and can come on so easily. 
It looks like your boy is in the best hands, I have everything crossed for you!


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## CanteringCarrot (26 January 2021)

I hope that your boy gets well soon! A friend has a horse that had cellulitis and if was totally nuts. Really questionable if the horse would make it and I'd never seen a leg so big. She pulled through, but it was a rough 48 hours or so. Really hoping this is the case with your boy too.


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## Squeak (26 January 2021)

Thinking of you today and also really hoping you have someone who can help you as that sounds a huge amount to be doing by yourself.


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## meleeka (26 January 2021)

Just caught up with this.  Thinking of you and keeping everything crossed that there’s some progress today x


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## LadyGascoyne (26 January 2021)

Thinking of you TPO.


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## Snowy Celandine (26 January 2021)

I'm also thinking of you and your boy TPO xx


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## Meredith (26 January 2021)

LadyGascoyne said:



			Thinking of you TPO.
		
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me too xx


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## Fluffypiglet (26 January 2021)

So sorry to read this. Best wishes and fingers crossed for you TPO


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## ycbm (26 January 2021)

I'd hoped for better news for you.  Keeping everything crossed he improves soon.


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## Regandal (26 January 2021)

What a worry, fingers crossed that he picks up soon 🤞


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## racebuddy (26 January 2021)

Hope he pickes up soon xxx could u not go on agrressive intravenous antibiotics to help the infection maybe ? Xx


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## Pinkvboots (26 January 2021)

Thinking of you today I hope you can get him moving a bit and that it starts to get a bit better xx


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## doodle (26 January 2021)

Oh gosh that sounds scarey. I’m not terribly far away from you if I can do anything to help.


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## Pinkvboots (26 January 2021)

I remember some years back a friend's horse had similar and the vet prescribed a drug that was not licensed here, he just got her to sign a disclaimer and gave the drug unfortunately I have no idea what it was but it worked end the horse was in his twenties when it happened.


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## TPO (26 January 2021)

racebuddy said:



			Hope he pickes up soon xxx could u not go on agrressive intravenous antibiotics to help the infection maybe ? Xx
		
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Already had two lots of these and nothing else left to give him

Just starting his fourth walk of the day. Swelling maybe down a touch but skin starting to ulcer 😖 spoken to the vet and nothing else can be done that what we are already doing. Just to try to dry the leg after hosing as thoroughly as I can.


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## nikicb (26 January 2021)

Just read the whole thread - what a distressing time for you both.  Sending healing vibes and hope you have some help at hand, at least to keep you fed and watered.  x


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## HollyWoozle (26 January 2021)

This is so hard-going @TPO, I really feel for you and your boy. Really hope someone is looking after you too. x


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## SEL (26 January 2021)

Just read this thread - keeping everything crossed for you, this sounds so nasty


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## LadyGascoyne (26 January 2021)

Is there any chance that it could be a bite or sting? Even if you can’t see a mark directly around the area, it could be higher or lower up?


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## misst (26 January 2021)

So sorry to read this TPO will be keeping everything crossed x


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## Gloi (26 January 2021)

Got everything crossed for you. Fortunately I haven't dealt with cellulitis in horses but I have with family members so know how painful it is.


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## DressageCob (26 January 2021)

Sounds very sore but you're trying everything. I hope he rallies soon.


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## Alibear (26 January 2021)

I'm really sorry to read this TPO and I'm really hoping things improve for you both this afternoon.


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## Rumtytum (26 January 2021)

Really sorry for you TPO, hoping things improve for your boy.


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## Marnie (26 January 2021)

Thinking of you and hoping that things improve.


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## HeyMich (26 January 2021)

Thinking of you TPO! I'm not that far from you, so please do shout if you need anything. 

(Saying that, I'm unfortunately in the wrong council area with current restrictions, but happy to lend an ear and travel in an emergency, within reason!)


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## Meowy Catkin (26 January 2021)

Sending loads of 'get well soon' vibes. I really hope that he is OK.


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## PictusSweetDreams (26 January 2021)

Really hoping your boy has picked up TPO. what a terribly stressful time this must be for you, my thoughts are with you


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## TPO (26 January 2021)

Thanks again for the well wishes and offers to help.

I think the swelling has gone down slightly and there is less oozing with no new sores.

Currently camped out in stable to make sure he doesnt go down. Going to keep up the hourly walks until 10pm, so he'll have had 12hrs of walking and hosing by that point. Then will drop it to every 2hrs so hes out st midnight, 2am, 4am and then hourly can start again at 6 if need be or otherwise at 8.

Hes had his 2 bute and 30ml of doxycycline at 5 do he was fairly striding out on his 6pm walk! Hope the drugs work their magic and that I'm doing enough to give him a chance. He kinda has to be better by monday because I've used the remainder of my leave for this week (vet said that this routine will need to continue "for a few days") screwing up month end reports so cant take any more time 🙈 thoroughbreds!!


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## PapaverFollis (26 January 2021)

Doing good TPO.  I hope someone is bringing you plenty cups of tea.


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## Jeni the dragon (26 January 2021)

Glad to hear he's improving! Fingers crossed he keeps moving in the right direction!


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## chaps89 (26 January 2021)

That's a fairly gruelling and relentless routine you've got going there, well done you. I'm glad it sounds like it is going in the right direction.
If you can't take time off, do you have a freelancer that could come in and help do a couple of the day time stints? 
Likewise could you do a longer working day to cover the gaps where you have to disappear to hose/walk? 
Is there absolutely no way of getting cover at work? 
Every hour in the day and 2 hours at night is alot, even without trying to factor in a job, and if you're sleep deprived everything is likely to take longer and not be of high quality which doesn't really help.
Sorry, I like to solutionise, OH says it's not helpful when people need sympathy so I'm sorry if that's the case!


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## ihatework (26 January 2021)

🤞🤞🤞🤞 the gruelling TLC pays dividends


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## HufflyPuffly (26 January 2021)

Also following, keeping everything crossed and wishing I could help!


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## ExRacers (26 January 2021)

I hope he continues turning that corner. Had several cases of cellulitis in a TB including some serum but this certainly sounds very extreme. Everything crossed for him.


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## Scarlett (26 January 2021)

Nothing to add except I hope he's improving. 

Dealt with cellulitis a few times with my big orange horse and its awful. Everything crossed for you.


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## Midlifecrisis (26 January 2021)

Thinking of you TPO


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 January 2021)

TPO, hope you are doing ok x


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## TPO (27 January 2021)

Thank you. Still elephant leg and very hot on front and inside of hock.

No new sores and serum only from pastern ones now and not cannon.

SuperDad came out to spell me from 12-5, we've changed timings so Vinnie only standing and hour before the regime starts over again. 

He seems bright enough and once I get him in the paddock hes marching out through the slush happily enough. Hes starting to be a fidget to get hosed so taking that as a good sign 🤞🏻

Thanks again for all the good wishes for him, I really appreciate it 🥺

Now offer 4hrs 45min of sleep! Tonight's valuable lesson was dont put hand cream on before removing contacts... thanks again x


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## DabDab (27 January 2021)

Being a thoroughbred he probably thinks this new hourly walking thing is a great game! Hope you managed to get your 4hrs 45


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## chaps89 (27 January 2021)

Hope you're both doing ok this morning


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## Dontforgetaboutme (27 January 2021)

Sorry you are going through this. My horse was diagnosed with this 18 months ago, her leg swelled up suddenly knee to shoulder and had serum oozing in couple places. I thought she’d had a bumble bee sting as there was a nest in the barn but called vet as she was lame with it. Other than a boat load of Bute and anti bs my vet said to hose and then bandage both legs and box rest for a week. She was hugely sorry for herself for few days and swelling stayed for 10 days but she came right. Vet did say it needed treated aggressively so hopefully as you picked it up early he’ll be better soon.


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## PapaverFollis (27 January 2021)

Hope you're all doing ok this morning, TPO. Glad Superdad is taking some of the strain and Vinnie sounds like he has perked up a little and is enjoying his walks.


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## Jeni the dragon (27 January 2021)

How is your boy today TPO?


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## TPO (27 January 2021)

Still quite swollen/no marked reduction and still a fair bit of heat in his (massive) hock.

Poor boy is pretty tired with all this walking bless him. He's been down a couple of times but can get up ok.

I called the practice with an update this morning as requested and my vet called back. He said we can scale back the night walks (yay!) so last one at 11pm and will give him a chance to get a semi decent sleep before going out at 5.30.

His skin is looking sore but hes not bothered about getting it touched and dried. No new sores but the ones that appeared yesterday are a bit bigger.

Vet is out at 1pm tomorrow to check up on him. Hopefully the swelling is down a bit by then.

Hes happy enough to weight bear and walk out once hea going. Getting hum started takes a bit of effort; he's just a bit tired and grumpy (understandable)

Thanks for asking after him. Hopefully some good news from the vet tomorrow 🤞🏻


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## PapaverFollis (27 January 2021)

I'm glad he's doing ok and that you can get a bit more rest tonight.


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## doodle (27 January 2021)

More vibes that it keeps going in the right direction.


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## Baywonder (27 January 2021)

Thank you for the update OP.  I hope he continues to make some progress, and both of you get a bit of sleep tonight.


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## holeymoley (27 January 2021)

Just caught up on this thread, what a worrying time. I hope he continues to improve even if its a slow progress. Well done for being so committed to that routine especially in this weather.


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## Jeni the dragon (27 January 2021)

Fingers crossed for continuing improvement!


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## DressageCob (27 January 2021)

I'm so pleased he's looking brighter. I hope he makes a swift recovery


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## chaps89 (27 January 2021)

He said we can scale back the night walks (yay!) so last one at 11pm and will give him a chance to get a semi decent sleep before going out at 5.30.
		
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Never mind him having a chance for some sleep - you too! 
It sounds like cautiously optimistic, fingers crossed for you he continues to improve


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## Ambers Echo (27 January 2021)

Only just caught up with your traumatic week. I'm so, so sorry. What a nightmare. You must be exhausted. Hope he is a lot better very soon and you can get some sleep. X


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## DabDab (27 January 2021)

Keeping fingers crossed.
Hope you both manage to get a bit of kip tonight


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## meleeka (28 January 2021)

Just catching up with this. Keeping everything crossed for improvement today x


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## The Fuzzy Furry (28 January 2021)

TPO, hope you got some sleep, also hoping he is turning the corner x


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## LadyGascoyne (28 January 2021)

Popping in to check how you are doing, TPO.


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## TPO (28 January 2021)

Morning. The swelling appears to be down a little and the hock can be palpated now, before it was rock solid. 

So hopefully that's a good sign 🤞🏻


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## Baywonder (28 January 2021)

That's good news!  I hope you both managed to get some sleep too.


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## On the Hoof (28 January 2021)

just popped in for news, good to hear that there is some improvement.   Keeping everything crossed still though. x


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## Alibear (28 January 2021)

Really glad to hear things are looking at little brighter, fingers crossed for todays vet check-up.


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## misst (28 January 2021)

Good news. Hopefully he has turned the corner for you and you can get some much needed rest


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## TPO (28 January 2021)

Thanks again for the messages.

Vet not long away and he is seeing the progress too. Apparently Vincent (Sunday name!) is the worst/one of the worst cases that he has seen 😬 Normally cellulitis would have resolved around 48hrs but we are now 72hrs+ in and only starting to see progress.

So Vinnie didnt need another steroid injection. Vet said he rarely gives steroids, if ever, for cellulitis because it impacts on the immune system. The one he got on either Monday night or Tuesday morning (lost track a little) is supposed to last 3-4 days but vet came out expecting to have to give more. A relief for horse and bank account that no more drugs were required today! 

So just to keep up with 1 bute and 30ml doxycycline twice a day and the same walking & hosing routine.

If he goes backwards over the weekend the on call vet has already been briefed about the case. Hopefully he keeps improving and then just to check in with vet on Monday and take it from there.

He said once they are back to normal it's usually around 2 days of rest then carry on as  normal but Vinnie is to be kept wrapped in cotton wool for at least 5 days when the time comes 😏 I think the ACPs will come in very handy then.

Thanks again for the good wishes. Not like I can go anywhere during lockdown so might as well be trudging around a field at all hours ha ha


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## Baywonder (28 January 2021)

Thankfully it is all looking positive for you! 

And thank you for the update again.  It stops everyone chewing their fingers to the bone waiting to hear any news!


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## SEL (28 January 2021)

TPO - breathing a sigh of relief for you over here!


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## ycbm (28 January 2021)

Taking a cautious breath here but fingers still firmly crossed. 
.


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## Gingerwitch (28 January 2021)

So pleased for the update. Hope Sir Vincent continues to enjoy his walks....m he will be banging the door soon saying oi  surf my legs need stretching and that grass over their needs nibbling xxx


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## photo_jo (28 January 2021)

TPO said:



			Thanks again for the messages.

 Vincent (Sunday name!)
		
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Fingers crossed thing's keep improving. As an aside Vincent's damsire Sandalay, who won the Queen Alexandra Stakes at Royal Ascot, was owned by Gordon Sumner aka Sting!


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## Red-1 (28 January 2021)

Thank goodness! I have been thinking of you both, such a worry when the magnificent ones are poorly. X


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## doodle (28 January 2021)

Phew. I keep coming back to this thread for updates.


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## chaps89 (28 January 2021)

Glad it's all going in the right direction, hope it continues to do so


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## TPO (28 January 2021)

photo_jo said:



			Fingers crossed thing's keep improving. As an aside Vincent's damsire Sandalay, who won the Queen Alexandra Stakes at Royal Ascot, was owned by Gordon Sumner aka Sting!
		
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Ah sorry, that's just his stable name. He was an appalling race horse! His name is thehoodlum but the only "hoodlum" that mum could think of was Vinnie Jones so that became his stable name when she bought him.


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## Peregrine Falcon (28 January 2021)

Oh goodness, only just seen this thread. Glad to read he's improved. I hope you are catching up with sleep now.


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## Jeni the dragon (28 January 2021)

Glad to hear he's improving! Fingers crossed things keep going in the right direction!


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## photo_jo (28 January 2021)

TPO said:



			Ah sorry, that's just his stable name. He was an appalling race horse! His name is thehoodlum but the only "hoodlum" that mum could think of was Vinnie Jones so that became his stable name when she bought him.
		
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Your boy's great grand dam was the dam of Derby winner Teenoso!


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## TPO (28 January 2021)

photo_jo said:



			Your boy's great grand dam was the dam of Derby winner Teenoso!
		
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That must have been where all the good genes went 😂


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## LadyGascoyne (28 January 2021)

So pleased for you both. May he continue to improve and hopefully you can both have a better weekend.


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## Ambers Echo (29 January 2021)

That is seriously gruelling rehab regime! Very well done getting him this far x


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## photo_jo (29 January 2021)

TPO said:



			That must have been where all the good genes went 😂
		
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Brilliant! He wasn't the best racehorse ever was he, bless him!


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## ycbm (29 January 2021)

TPO said:



			Ah sorry, that's just his stable name. He was an appalling race horse! His name is thehoodlum but the only "hoodlum" that mum could think of was Vinnie Jones so that became his stable name when she bought him.
		
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Will he be advertising Brut next?


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## OldNag (29 January 2021)

Here's  to continued improvement


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## TPO (29 January 2021)

Gone a bit backwards this morning. Was reluctant to come out of his stable and was nodding lame. He was walking out better by the time I got him out of the shed and then it was pitch black in the field as we did our laps. He was a bit slower than normal but appeared to be walking on it fine.

Back to the shed to cold hose and he was weight bearing but fidgeting. In the shed to dry leg and he was walking on his toe. Let him mooch about while I sorted drugs and  breakfasts. Checked his hoof for stones and cleared it out, I couldnt get it up high enough so see if there was bruising. Didnt react to heel bulbs being palpated (had an abscess burst out unnoticed on Sunday).

So I've given him his bute and antibiotics but not weight bearing in the stable and really reluctant to move. I dont think another half hour will make a difference, and will give the bute a chance to kick in, so will call vets when they open at 9 and get advice.

Thay aside swelling is down a bit more but still very warm around his hock and down the medial aspect of his cannon


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## PapaverFollis (29 January 2021)

I'm sorry you've had a back step.  Hope the vets can help.


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## Red-1 (29 January 2021)

TPO said:



			Gone a bit backwards this morning. Was reluctant to come out of his stable and was nodding lame. He was walking out better by the time I got him out of the shed and then it was pitch black in the field as we did our laps. He was a bit slower than normal but appeared to be walking on it fine.

Back to the shed to cold hose and he was weight bearing but fidgeting. In the shed to dry leg and he was walking on his toe. Let him mooch about while I sorted drugs and  breakfasts. Checked his hoof for stones and cleared it out, I couldnt get it up high enough so see if there was bruising. Didnt react to heel bulbs being palpated (had an abscess burst out unnoticed on Sunday).

So I've given him his bute and antibiotics but not weight bearing in the stable and really reluctant to move. I dont think another half hour will make a difference, and will give the bute a chance to kick in, so will call vets when they open at 9 and get advice.

Thay aside swelling is down a bit more but still very warm around his hock and down the medial aspect of his cannon
		
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The one I knew was a bit up and down, he had to have the antibiotics changed a few times. They had to culture the bacteria to find the best one. Ours was awful, cost 4K in the end with the frequent visits and many drugs.

But he did live a long and healthy life afterwards.


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## mini-eventer (29 January 2021)

With him walking on his toe, and the previous abscess, could he have an abscess brewing at the same time...? Might be worth a discussion with vet/poultice to see if you can get anything out


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## Midlifecrisis (29 January 2021)

Morning TPO...one step back for two forward holds true sadly. I’m still sending vibes ....


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## The Fuzzy Furry (29 January 2021)

Hoping vets have come up with possible change to antibiotics,  or given you assistance at least over the phone x


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## Gingerwitch (29 January 2021)

Any update tpo ? Hoping for positive news for you xx


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## oldie48 (29 January 2021)

TPO. I'm so sorry I missed this post completely. I had the same situation with my elderly TB. He'd come in lame and I thought it was an abscess but next morning I found him down with a huge leg and in dreadful pain. It was truly awful so I understand how you must be feeling. It was January and vile weather but my vet wanted him out in the field 24/7 and being walked like yours. I am sure it's what saved him, that and the intravenous antibiotics and huge doses of painkillers (2x bute three times a day + 15 paracetamol 3x daily + sachet of antibiotic 3 times a day) tbh it might have been 20 paracetamol but it all got ground up and mixed to a paste and syringed in. My vet did say the first antibiotic might not be the right one but we were lucky and after three days he started to improve but I had wanted to put him to sleep because I couldn't bare to see him in such pain. He recovered, it was touch and go for a week and then for another week it looked worryingly uncertain, then he suddenly started to look brighter and he walked out with me down the lane. I think your horse is probably through the worse but if he isn't perhaps your vet needs to use a different antibiotic? I never found any wound or scrape but he was an older horse with cushings so his immune system was compromised. I hope your horse is starting to show a real improvement. It's a vile condition and so painful for them.


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## LadyGascoyne (29 January 2021)

How are you doing TPO? Thinking of you.


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## Wishfilly (30 January 2021)

Sending positive vibes! I hope there's been a bit of an improvement today and you aren't getting too wet/tired!


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## alibali (30 January 2021)

Sending positive vibes TPO. You must be exhausted physically and emotionally. Hope there's someone who can support you with all this.


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## TheOldTrout (30 January 2021)

Only just seen this thread. Is there any news?


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## Michen (30 January 2021)

Shit. I am really sorry to see this, hope you are both ok.


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## chaps89 (30 January 2021)

Bit worried we haven't heard from you. Hoping it's because he's turned the corner and you're catching up on sleep and not the alternative


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## milliepops (30 January 2021)

I will prompt for an update.  I think its going OK.


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## TPO (30 January 2021)

Thanks again for the messages about Vinnie. Sorry I'm being useless and have lost track of the days already.

So yeah Friday he was awful again, very uncomfortable and wouldnt put any weight down his heel. My vet was off so got a call back from the first vet who had come out on Monday.

Basically he said there isn't anything more he could do other than pain relief and that I could do that by giving more bute. Then basically just to keep him moving at any cost because that's the only thing that will get his lymphatic system working. 

V had already had his morning bute sachet and vet phoned around 9.30. So gave him another sachet waited an hour to let it kick in then forced him to walk 😓 Dad had to "bump start" Vinnie and push while I pulled. He did start moving a moving better on his later walks. 

So he gets walked for 15mins and then hand grazed. When he comes in he gets hosed for 10-15mins the  thoroughly dried. After hes stood to be hosed he goes really lame again. I've never had a horse be worse after hosing (although I've never dealt with cellulitis before) and I usually hose 20mins. So now he gets a 5min walk after hosing to try to "walk it off".

There is no school and the ground has been awful for hand walking him. There is a track alongside the house but its access to fields and a farmer has been up and down it regularly trailering stuff out. That's fine in itself but it's made the track really muddy and the (big) tractor tyre tracks have frozen solid so not great for walking on/through. 

Our summer paddocks were ok to start with because they were semi frozen with a covering of snow so were actually ok for handwalking. Then we had some balmy temperatures of 2-4 degrees so everything thawed turned all the rested paddocks into mud. 

More so with the track but I'm just conscious he's not walking on an even surface and there are lots of trips and slips.

Due to lack of facilities and lights hes not done anything since September and even then it was just mooching about up the track in a walk. So all of this walking, with a very dodgy and sore leg, will be taking its toll too. 

Dad has been helping loads and done some of the horrendous shifts in the middle of the night, literally. Both of us now have knackered knees and ankles from marching about in wellies so can't begin to imagine how poor V must be feeling 😖

We've mad ethe executive decision to do his last walk at 9pm, no cold hosing (other than to clean mud off and thoroughly dry) as it is absolutely freezing and his skin is raw then leave him until 6.30am so that he can have a proper sleep/recovery after a hard week.

I've to phone my vet on monday morning with an update. 

Re antibiotics he has doxycycline. Hes a fussy eater at the best of times so everything is being syringed into him. The vets have also jagged him with other anti bs but I need to check the bill to get all the names (there's a list!).

There does seem to be less heat in his hock although more in his cannon, which is also tighter, so I'm assuming gravity doing its job as vet hoped. Still quite a bit of serum oozing but no new sores <touch wood>.

Dad had been helping loads. I'm back to work on monday and starting to stress about how I'm going to manage Vinnie. 

Long story short I'm not because I work 8.30-5 with a 45min lunch. I took last week off to see to Vinnie and it was month end so its landed my project in it & I'm going to go back to a backlog and urgent stuff so I cant skive to do horses 😬 I only have 2 days leave left until the end of March and I want to keep them just in case things go south again. 

The other two horses have been great and  have put up with reduced turnout to keep Vinnie company and with being disturbed several times a night/morning but I won't even manage the current routine with them around work. Poor dad will do the best that he can, dont know what I would have done without him (& Redbull!), but it's not going to be great. My vet indicated that, all going well, another couple of weeks until V might be ok/back to normal and then hes to have another week in the routine just to be 100% safe before he can go back out. So yeah, just having a pity party, with a side of anxious stressing, for one 🥳

Thanks for the good wishes and shared experiences. I've no first hand experience of cellulitis and definitely didnt think that's what it was based on how the original swelling on his gaskin presented. Thanks again, I really appreciate it


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## Michen (30 January 2021)

Is there any way you can get him to a yard (a rehab type yard- what about somewhere with a Walker?) somewhere who can help with the walking and provide the facilities to do so?

Sounds bloody awful and really hope he turns a corner. Your dad sounds like a legend!


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## ycbm (30 January 2021)

Thanks for the update,  everything still crossed here for Vinnie,  TPO.


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## Pearlsasinger (30 January 2021)

I've only just seen this thread.  Fingers crossed for a good outcome.  Is there a freelancer you could get to deal with Vinnie during the day?


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## PapaverFollis (30 January 2021)

I'm so sorry he's not much better. Can you get a freelancer to help you while you go back to work?


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## PapaverFollis (30 January 2021)

Or a rehab yard as Michen suggests?


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## Baywonder (30 January 2021)

Thank you for the update @TPO.  

I have absolutely everything crossed for Vinnie to make a full recovery.  I really wish there was something I could do to help 

Sending positive vibes and hugs your way.......


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## brighteyes (30 January 2021)

What a horror story. I wish I could help - things like this are so much better with all hands on deck. Poor lad. I will join the rest of the HHO lot in wishing him a speedy resolution and good outcome.


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## TPO (30 January 2021)

No to rehab yard. He's mum's horse and stables are literally on the doorstep so no danger of her paying to have him elsewhere. 

That aside couldnt think of a single suitable place and also transportless (new word) since selling my wee lorry last year. I dont even think he would be ok to travel like this?

I dont know any freelancers and I know olds wouldn't pay for it, dad will just do more and more... Also dont think I would trust anyone else. I've had so many bad experiences with "experts", admittedly not freelancers, that I couldn't imagine handing an ill horse over.

Sorry I dont mean to be awkward. It just is what it is and I need to call time on my pity party and get on with it until he is better.

I know freelancer seems like the obvious answer but it's just not a goer at this stage. That might change if we are doing this same thing in a month or so when dad and I will be half dead! Hopefully it doesnt come to that.

Yeah my dad is awesome. I'm really lucky to have him and extremely grateful.

Thanks again for the good wishes for Vinnie


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## milliepops (30 January 2021)

^its not a pity party,  its a punishing regime, any one of us would be really struggling to deal with it.


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## brighteyes (30 January 2021)

'Pity party'? Are you kidding? This is about the worst rehab regime in the history of ever!


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## Jeni the dragon (30 January 2021)

Absolutely what MP says.  I know if it's helping it doesn't feel quite as bad, but still sounds a hellish routine.
I know you're parents might not be keen, but I really think you and your Dad will need help when you go back to work.


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## PapaverFollis (30 January 2021)

milliepops said:



			^its not a pity party,  its a punishing regime, any one of us would be really struggling to deal with it.
		
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Exactly. Especially as it sounds like it could go on for a while.  It is difficult when there's noone you really trust to help.  Hopefully you and your dad don't break yourselves too much though TPO.


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## Squeak (31 January 2021)

That is one very lucky horse that it has people prepared to put in so much effort for it.  I hope he's looking better this morning.

Is there any chance you or your dad would be able to oversee a freelancer?  I.e. you could keep an eye on them out the window to make sure they're sticking to the routine.


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## Red-1 (31 January 2021)

I hear you about the punishing regime. Awful.

One thing I would look at, my horse has CPL and a sluggish lymph system. A couple of times he has swollen in all 4 legs and I have been unable to re-gain control despite exercise, bandaging, massage... I was recommended to call Trinity Consultants for their L94 liquid. 10 days of liquid supplement.

It has worked wonders both times. Legs drain of lymph and horse looks brighter. I know that some wonder liquid can't cure cellulitis but, if he were mine, I would certainly call Simon at Trinity and ask his advice to see if it would at least help the draining. 

I guess a liquid supplement can't hurt, and my experience has been amazing with it.


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## Pinkvboots (31 January 2021)

Your doing so well under the circumstances it's a very tough regime to have to do daily and I hope he starts to improve, is someone on here near you that could give you a hand while you are at work? If I was near you I would have been happy to help but I am at the other end of the country.


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## Baywonder (31 January 2021)

Pity party my a**e!!!!  

You and your wonderful dad are doing an absolutely amazing job looking after Vinnie, and I for one take my hat off to you both. Whatever the vet has advised you to do, you have done it - and then a bit more on top of that too.

That to me is a truly dedicated horse owner.


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## TPO (31 January 2021)

Thanks again for all of your nice messages 🥺

He seems a bit better today. He wasnt wanting to leave his stable and was hopping along on his toe. His other hooves were filled with dung which wasnt helping. He's a complete feral in the stable at the best of time and always stands in his dung (he doesnt have thrush) so not the best. He has a big corner stable and that is now deep bedded to the door as per vet's advice and its rubber matted. Anyway I digress, got him out of the stable and managed to quickly pick out both fronts but no danger of doing good hind which is fair enough.

He was really stop start and hard to keep going but we got there. I think its sore skin that is maybe stopping him putting his foot down. His pastern is seeping and has quite a few sores along with hacks. I know how much my split skin hurts (thanks cold hosing!) so his must be agony.

We've been drying really thoroughly with a towel and then using kitchen paper until the paper stays dry. I guess it doesnt help that the skin then starts seeping too. I'll try to upload a photo but HHO hasnt been letting me load photos.

The vet previously said no to cream at this stage. As it's a bacterial infection dont want stuff sticking to the cream and entering any of the sores. I was wondering if maybe something I thought of as gentle, like savalon, might be ok but had it pointed out by someone with more smarts than me that it might sting a little and suggested nappy cream. 

We (me and newly appointed Vet Dad) decided to cut back on cold hosing. The vet said that the walking was the really crucial element. So instead of after every walk just do it after th4 first and last walks (unless its muddy and he needs cleaned off).

It's also been really cold here so the wee paddocks have gone hard. We decided to turn V out after his walks rather than being everyone in to stand. The thinking was he is as well out in fresh air than a stable and there is hay and water out for him. Well instead of mooching around the hay he's hopped two paddocks over in the search for grass (in vain, only moss is growing back after the flooding 😭). So that's goof hes kinda moving and he will still get handwalked but with longer in  between. Better for the other 2 if they can be left out longer too and they can all see each other.

Vinnie is as neurotic as they come and has huge attachment issues with my horse Chip, hence the ACP order for V to be in the shed alone. I'm not sure how perment it will be but Vinnie has been pretty perfectly behaved. He is the nappiest ratbag ever and now hes marching up the track going further than he's ever been before. The other two have been having a carry on and throwing themselves about in the mud 🙄 and V hasnt even neighed. Normally that would make his tiny brain explode. Hes standing by himself to get hosed and mooching about in the barn on his own. Hes been quite happy to stand with a net tied to the gate and just watch the other two while I've mucked out.


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## TPO (31 January 2021)

Pressed post too soon 🙄

But yeah sorry I was rambling on. Basically hes behaving like a saint and not at all like himself. Heres hoping that part lasts 🤞🏻

Fat Cob has been coming down to the gate to check on him (nothing at all to do with the net of hay I'm sure) but his BFF Chip couldnt care less and has been quite happy by himself playing at races and rolling 😏 

🤔 kinda lost all track of what my point was. I think basically Vinnie is getting better, giving turnout a go while the ground is hard, reducing cold hosing and possibly trying nappy cream. 

Will give trinity consultants a call too because anything that helps is welcome.

Randomly just bought more mudslabs from someone moving house. Anyway they do reiki and told me about it when I mentioned Vinnie (his routine meant I had to delay collecting the slabs). I've never used reiki before and dont think I personally know anyone who has. I can just imagine my vets face if I ask him 😬 From what I've read it is good for inflammation and whole body stuff. Do you reckon it's worth a punt and if it is would it be better once he was off drugs and better etc or something that is gentle enough to use now? #clutchingatstraws

Thanks again for the nice messages


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## OldNag (31 January 2021)

TPO said:



			Pressed post too soon 🙄

But yeah sorry I was rambling on. Basically hes behaving like a saint and not at all like himself. Heres hoping that part lasts 🤞🏻

Fat Cob has been coming down to the gate to check on him (nothing at all to do with the net of hay I'm sure) but his BFF Chip couldnt care less and has been quite happy by himself playing at races and rolling 😏

🤔 kinda lost all track of what my point was. I think basically Vinnie is getting better, giving turnout a go while the ground is hard, reducing cold hosing and possibly trying nappy cream.

Will give trinity consultants a call too because anything that helps is welcome.

Randomly just bought more mudslabs from someone moving house. Anyway they do reiki and told me about it when I mentioned Vinnie (his routine meant I had to delay collecting the slabs). I've never used reiki before and dont think I personally know anyone who has. I can just imagine my vets face if I ask him 😬 From what I've read it is good for inflammation and whole body stuff. Do you reckon it's worth a punt and if it is would it be better once he was off drugs and better etc or something that is gentle enough to use now? #clutchingatstraws

Thanks again for the nice messages
		
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That's really good news, sounds like progress.

As to reiki. Well it can't hurt. I've had it myself and I would recommend it.


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## TPO (31 January 2021)




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## Pearlsasinger (31 January 2021)

I would give the reiki a go.  I once accidentally (long story) had reiki on the ankle that I had broken several years before and had a plate in.  The ankle was swollen when the practitioner saw it.  After he did his stuff for a very short time, the swelling went down.


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## Shysmum (31 January 2021)

TPO said:



View attachment 64629

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Wow! That looks sore!


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## Carrottom (31 January 2021)

I think you are right to limit the cold hosing unless it is needed to remove mud. With regard to bedding etc. Sticking to cream, I said that to a vet once and his comment was it was better sticking to the cream than to the wound so to use plenty of cream.  Hope the improvement continues.


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## Reacher (31 January 2021)

Only very belatedly seen this thread - what a gruelling week you and Vinnie and your dad have had. Glad he seems a little better today, hope he has turned the corner


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## Arzada (31 January 2021)

I think I'd give the Reiki a go too. I'd ask the vet about Flamazine though someone on here may know if it wouldn't be suitable for Vinnie.


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## TPO (31 January 2021)

Arzada said:



			I think I'd give the Reiki a go too. I'd ask the vet about Flamazine though someone on here may know if it wouldn't be suitable for Vinnie.
		
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I'm 75% sure hes had it before for mud fever. Its definitely been prescribed previously to one of mums horses for something. I cant remember vinnie's MF ever being that bad though so I might be remembering wrong unless he got it when he punctured his elbow (walking (hopping) vet bill that horse!)

I did ask about cream and vet said no for now but that might change once the swelling is down and treating the sores becomes a priority?

Thanks


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## Xtra (31 January 2021)

Last year I was advised against cold hosing in winter for a wound by my vet as the water is too chilled to help and damages newly growing flesh.  Mine was an open wound that kept getting irritated.  We just wiped stable debris off.

ON the movement thing the same horse has a scar and now walks with strange action. its simply a feeling thing and is finally settling so could be he is reacting to the swelling etc.

Hope you get some progress and rest soon.


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## Arzada (31 January 2021)

Xtra said:



			Last year I was advised against cold hosing in winter for a wound by my vet as the water is too chilled to help and damages newly growing flesh.  Mine was an open wound that kept getting irritated.
		
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That's interesting. We were dealing with a large open wound in winter which the vet advised to hose twice daily and apply Flamazine. When the pipes at the yard froze we syringed warm water (brought from home). We stayed with the syringe and warm water even when the pipes thawed because it just seemed kinder.


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## TPO (31 January 2021)

The hosing is for the inflammation rather than cleaning or wound management as I understand it.

I'd happily hose for a strain but it's the fact his skin is damaged and weeping it just feels cruel. That makes sense about tissue damage with extreme cold.

In the end he was only hosed once this morning and I put  nappy cream on tonight after drying (the serum from) his leg. Hes just getting one more walk tonight and that'll be him until first thing in the morning. It's to be absolutely freezing and everything is turning to ice already. I dont want to risk a slip in the dark and he will probably be tired after his first day out in a week. 

So will just need to see how he is in the morning.

Thanks again for the messages


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## Ambers Echo (31 January 2021)

So sorry you're still going through this. So tough. He's a very lucky horse. Fingers crossed theres light at the end of that tunnel soon. X


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## milliepops (31 January 2021)

🤞🤞🤞🤞 come on vinnie!


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## Mynstrel (31 January 2021)

When hubby's big mare had lymphangitis the vet gave us (lots of) water tablets as well as a/b's and pain relief for her. Also some sort of cream which I can't remember the name of, I can only describe it as like pink vaseline which helped keep the the skin supple and stopped it from splitting so much when the serum was oozing. Somebody from a horse herbals place also suggested feeding fenugreek as apparently it has a similar action to the water tablets.


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## SO1 (31 January 2021)

Could you perhaps ask your vet if you can use leucillin. https://www.leucillin.co.uk

It is not a cream so nothing will stick to it.

It does sound relentless and I do hope he makes a good recovery, you must be exhausted especially in the cold weather. It is such a worry isn't it when they are poorly.


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## PapaverFollis (31 January 2021)

I think you've made the right call with the cold hosing in this weather. If its movement that is key then energy and time best focused that.


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## brighteyes (1 February 2021)

Re the cold hosing for inflammation, could you not sort of wrap his leg in a long bin bag and/or cling film somehow, so the water still cools the leg but doesn't wet it? You might need 5 pairs of hands but it might work?
I do hope he gets over this quickly.


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## Midlifecrisis (1 February 2021)

Sending thoughts over to you...I’ve no constructive comments just wishing Vinnie would get better and relieve the strain on you and your parents...


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## Baywonder (1 February 2021)

Here's hoping there has been some improvement today @TPO  - we are all thinking of you and have everything crossed for good news.  X


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## TPO (1 February 2021)

Thank you 😊

He's much better today, well relatively speaking but all progress is welcomed! 

My vet is back out tomorrow for another check up. As he put it he doesnt want to "take his eye off the ball" given how bad things have been so far. We arent taking any progress for granted or letting our guard down. 

Vet okayed V being in the paddocks in between walks too so that's a big help. Dad has taken over most of the walking while I work and I'm left in charge of drug administration. V is definitely feeling  better because he was an absolute twit tonight.

He gets bute mixed with apple juice syringed into his mouth and then doxycycline that the vet assured me was molasses flavoured. Sounds ok to me! So tonight it was the end of the world and the stupid eejit was running backwards and trying to rear while acting like an abused horse 😏  I threw the leadrope over his neck while I went to get the next syringe and you'd have thought I'd been whipping him with it. So yeah, pluses and minuses to him returning to his normal self 🙄😂

Dad had announced that he is enjoying walking Vinnie and is taking the night walks. I didnt put up too much resistance! Ha ha 

So hopefully my vet is pleased with Vinnies progress tomorrow. I just need to figure out a way to sneak away from my work laptop for the appointment 😬


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## oldie48 (1 February 2021)

FWIW I didn't cold hose my horse and he had a lot more pain relief than Vinnie. I also didn't stable although he was used to being in at night in the winter but although it was foul weather my paddock was pretty mud free. Hopefully he's going the right way now and will continue to improve but I am still wondering if he's on the best antibiotic. Moving is key to him recovering but if he's in a lot of pain, he won't want to move and my vet gave paracetamol because you can give it with bute. We bought the paracetamol from chemist shops as it's cheaper but I think my OH was put on suicide watch as he was buying so much. I hope V is a lot better tomorrow.


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## Baywonder (1 February 2021)

Thanks for the update @TPO - glad to hear Vinnie is making good progress!


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## ester (1 February 2021)

So pleased he is improving, and well done dad still!


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## DressageCob (1 February 2021)

Thanks for the update @TPO. I'm glad he's made a little progress and it sounds like your dad is enjoying the bonding time!


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## Alibear (2 February 2021)

Glad to hear he's improving and that you Dad is enjoying the extra horse bonding opportunities


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## ozpoz (2 February 2021)

Just seen this TPO, so glad to hear he is improving. It is a long haul,I had similar in hot muggy weather and ended up wrapping old and not so old sheets in water with calendula tincture, around this whole limb as the flies were sticking to the serum when we walked out.  I could only use them once and the whole limb was affected. But, we got there, although the vet nearly gave up 5 days in. Hope Vinnie continues to make good progress. X


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## Reacher (2 February 2021)

Glad he is looking better.

My mr H thinks I’m trying to poison him with a syringe wormer and when I tried the tapeworm saliva sample he thought I was trying to murder him


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## The Fuzzy Furry (2 February 2021)

Hoping things are easing TPO x


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## Rumtytum (2 February 2021)

Really pleased TPO, may Vinnie’s journey continue onwards and upwards😊


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## Wishfilly (2 February 2021)

Sounds really positive! I hope things continue to improve!


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## TPO (2 February 2021)

Thanks again for the messages. The vet was back out today but I was stuck in a work call so the olds were there instead.

So hes improving but is still pretty awful. Vet has demoted him from "worst he's seen" to just a top 5 place now. Too scared to ask what happened with the other 4 🙈

There is a filled rim above his corner band and it looks like he could step out of his hoof if (when) that bursts. That hopefully isnt the case but it looks horrid.

Vet is getting a special steroid cream that's antibacterial made for him. Until then I've to use sudocream.

I've got 10 days of bute and antibiotics left so another 10days has been ordered for him.

Hes to be walked at least 6x a day. Apparently 3 is the norm but hes not the norm and that's nowhere near enough for him. Basically lymphatic system in that leg is now goosed. I dont know if that's long term damage yet.

Emm what else. Hes only to get a max of half hour turnout now that its wet. His hoof and leg are to be very thoroughly dried then cream on.

His hair has now started to fall out in clumps. The inside of his hock is practically bald and it doesnt look like the rest of the leg will be far behind.

His leg smells like a dirty poultice 🤢 it did take me a minute to place the smell but that's it.

He appears to have dropped weight all of a sudden. Tonight he was just wither then shelf of ribs and really tucked up.

Hea to get "soup" and keep hydrated but fussy rat doesnt eat sloppy feeds at the best of times. Hes still getting normal breakfast and dinner but just damper than normal. Then hes getting soaked grass nuts with ease and Excel mixed through after every walk. Hes supposed to get soaked hay but it's been so cold I've had to stop so now it's just lightly dampened. Hes still toileting as normal so no concerns <touching wood frantically> about his digestive system for now.

Vet reckons another 2wks at least until hes approaching normal and then he wants another 10-14 days of the same routine to be sure so yeah, looking like another month of this 😩

I've got a cheek as since I've been back at work dad has done just about all of the walks in his waterproof hi viz gear. The weather has turned especially feral and it's just horrible being outside never mind trying to drag a reluctant 500kg along too. 

So yeah, obviously glad that Vinnie is going in the right direction but also just 😖😞😟😩 at the regime. Needs must and all that. Just a shame that I havent won the euromillions yet because I could really do with jacking in this job thing. Then I'd have plenty of time to walk!


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## OldNag (2 February 2021)

Oh goodness, here's  hoping he slides  out of the top 5 and then  vet's Top 40 PDQ ! 

Vinnie is lucky to have such a fabulous nursing team around him.

Sending HHO vibes  for continued recovery x


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## chaps89 (2 February 2021)

Crumbs, it doesn't sound like you're out of the woods yet then, I really feel for you. 
If there's another month to go, I know you said you didn't want a freelancer, but for that length of time is it worth re-visiting?As you have time to 'train' them up as it were and could keep an eye on them to start because you would have been doing it anyway, but it might mean you get a break towards the end at least?
Either which way, I hope he continues to improve


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## Lurfy (3 February 2021)

Hang in there TPO and TPO Dad, sounds like you have kept Vinnie alive with this regime, incredible effort. Fingers crossed he continues in the right direction. One thing you can comfort yourself with at the end of all this is you have really done your best. I hope your boy makes a full recovery, if he doesn't it won't be for lack of trying on your part xxx


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## Red-1 (3 February 2021)

Fingers crossed, as he is at least fighting it. As I said upthread, the one I knew had ups and downs. As for the lymphatic system in the leg being shot, he did have problems for a few years with that leg being predisposed to filling if stood in, or a bit of mud fever, but it was all manageable and never went back to the way it was or needed special treatment. 

Some years later, you never would have known.

One thing ours had that your vet didn't prescribe is antihistamines. We think allergy had a hand in the lymphatic system being overloaded.


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## OrangeAndLemon (3 February 2021)

Hilton herbs have a marigold product you can add to feed for lymphatic support. I was shocked at the difference it made to filled legs from dermatitis. It takes a few weeks to start working. 

I'm so pleased to hear your hardwork is paying off and helping him get better.


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## milliepops (3 February 2021)

Feedmark also do a similar supp. Even my super fussy one ate it, marigolds be tasty 😄


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## TPO (3 February 2021)

Thanks

I did call Trinity regarding a supplement for his lymphatic system but the consultant wasn't there. I think he tried to call me back but I was in a other work call for the rest of the day so I'll try him again today.

Anything that will help os worth a shot.

Vet thinks it's been caused by a "typical" wee nick and V has had a rubbish lymphatic system (his legs fill when he stands in for example) and then the thin TB skin on top makes things worse.


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## be positive (3 February 2021)

OrangeAndLemon said:



			Hilton herbs have a marigold product you can add to feed for lymphatic support. I was shocked at the difference it made to filled legs from dermatitis. It takes a few weeks to start working.

I'm so pleased to hear your hardwork is paying off and helping him get better.
		
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Also pleased to hear he is improving, I have used the HH with great success for one or two and found it worked fairly quickly to get things moving.


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## doodle (3 February 2021)

Re feed. Robin has been on sooth and gain which is a high calorie ulcer feed. It was mainly to get him eating his meds. It’s a mash so you can add lots of water. He can’t get enough of it! Even with horrible tasting meds in. He was loosing weight and now he is actually getting too tubby on it!


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## Carrottom (3 February 2021)

I had one with lymphangitis in a bad winter and after walking out I left him out on the yard with small piles of hay dotted around to encourage movement. It was a bit messy and wasteful but I think it helped to keep him moving for another half hour. I'm lucky I could keep an eye on him from the house.


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## Ambers Echo (3 February 2021)

Glad to hear he is slowly improving but crikey - another month! Thank goodness for your dad! What a hero. Fingers firmly crossed for a rapid slide down the charts. That is one Number One spot no-one wants. Hugs to you all.


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## oldie48 (3 February 2021)

Keeping fingers and toes crossed that he keeps improving.


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## PapaverFollis (3 February 2021)

I'm glad he's still going and getting a bit better. That's a tough regime, especially in this never ending winter, thank goodness for superdad.


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## TPO (3 February 2021)

His leg smells so awful. It's like a dirty poultice (had way too much experience of them with last TB 😏) which I guess is to be expected given all the gunk oozing out but still 🤢

People who've dealt with bad cases of cellulitis before - is that normal?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (3 February 2021)

TPO said:



			His leg smells so awful. It's like a dirty poultice (had way too much experience of them with last TB 😏) which I guess is to be expected given all the gunk oozing out but still 🤢

People who've dealt with bad cases of cellulitis before - is that normal?
		
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I'd run that past your vet, just to set mind at rest x


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## TPO (3 February 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			I'd run that past your vet, just to set mind at rest x
		
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I called before I posted and just waiting for a call back. Unfortunately I have zero patience 😳 so posted here too just in case anyone had experience of it.

I think it's to be expected given the state of him but just worried that it should be as severe although how you stop it oozing is beyond me as the infection has to leave somehow...

Ugg, thanks x


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## windand rain (3 February 2021)

The pus/serum leaking through his skin will smell bad but hopefully as it starts to dry up it will improve. My son burnt his arm (not the same ) but it was wrapped in cling film and cream and left for three weeks to stew in its own serum he stank like a dead body after the first few days. It wasnt infected it was just the serum


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## Gingerwitch (3 February 2021)

Nothing to add but a virtual cheer for you and your dad. Your working your socks off.
Come on vinny
Let's hear your whinny
Get that leg on the mend
Cause your driving poor tpo round the bend
Xxxxx


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## DressageCob (5 February 2021)

I hope the big lad continues to improve, and that he and your dad are now firm friends! They ought to be after all their bonding time!


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## TPO (5 February 2021)

Thanks; hes better and worse.

The swelling has gone down a bit but his leg is rotting. If you imagine the worst poultice you've ever smelt then x10 that's getting close to Vinnie's leg 🤢 The hair is falling out so that the inside of his hock is not bald and falling out in clumps elsewhere.

His skin is raw and yellow. Serum is oozing out everywhere.

The vet was here on Tuesday for a check up and prescribed steroidal cream that had to be specially made for him. I picked it up from vets house last night as he wouldnt have managed to drop it off until tonight otherwise. The leg is that bad I figured the sooner the better.

Hes still on bute and antibiotics and will be for a while yet. I was hoping for a miracle overnight with the cream but funnily enough it's a no show! 

He now won't keep his leg down and hates being touched (understandable). I'm only lucky that hes too sore to kick just now! 

Its day 3 of "end of the world" weather and theres no signs of it improving. It's not just constant heavy rain on it's own, its snow and sleet with a freezing wind that cuts you in half. The tractors have been lifting trailers of bales out of the bottom fields so the tracks are destroyed because it's the massive super tractors. The puddles nearly reach the top of my wellies. Vinnie walks on the verge out of the puddles but it's still just mud. The fields are all flooded and the great lakes have taken up residence. To add insult to injury swans have taken up residence on/in them 😏

So it's a bit of a nightmare all in all. His leg is to stay clean and dry with the cream applied twice a day but he's also to be walked 6x a day and it's anything but clean and dry. The cold hosing nod the leg has more or less stopped but he needs rinsed after a walk to attempt to keep the leg dry. Hes patted dry but in turn that takes the cream off. So yeah, struggling a bit with it all right now. 

Still nothing else for it, just have to keep on keeping on because he definitely won't get better without walking or the cream. His vet bill is already sickening between all the visits, xrays, drugs and meds. Vet reckons there is still a long way to go too. So yeah, this is today's miserable moan, sorry


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## Ambers Echo (5 February 2021)

I am so sorry TPO. It sounds a total nightmare. Is hospital not an option? It sounds like at the moment you just don't have the facilities to be able  to manage it as well as you want to. Obviously clean and dry just isn't possible.


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## HeyMich (5 February 2021)

Such a shame to hear that he's not out of the woods yet. We have all fingers/toes crossed for you!

Regarding the topical steroids, I had a mare with really bad LV last year and we found the only thing that worked was spray-on steroids (Cortavance I think). It meant that I didn't have to touch the raw skin, and she felt a lot better for it. Worth asking the vet maybe?

And as AE says above, a stint in horspital might be the break/relief you all need.


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## chaps89 (5 February 2021)

I'm so sorry to hear this TPO, I really feel for you


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## meleeka (5 February 2021)

Sorry to hear you are still struggling. Don’t feel bad about moaning.  I think any one of us would find it exhausting and draining.  Fingers crossed for some positive new soon.


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## Arzada (5 February 2021)

Definitely not a moan TPO. Lucky horse to have you and your family. Conditions sound appalling. Thinking of you and Vinnie and hoping for better news.


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## Surbie (5 February 2021)

Am so sorry TPO, that sounds horrible to deal with. Much sympathy from down south, where we have resident herons and ducks in our resting summer fields lakes.
Mine had a recurrent nasty abcess through winter a couple of years ago and it was horrendous trying to walk out a 700kg kite for a short walk & pick of grass through clay slop while he healed. Not quite on the level that you are dealing with. 

Spray on steroids sound an interesting option, rather than the cream. Am keeping fingers crossed.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (5 February 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			I am so sorry TPO. It sounds a total nightmare. Is hospital not an option? It sounds like at the moment you just don't have the facilities to be able  to manage it as well as you want to. Obviously clean and dry just isn't possible.
		
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I was wondering this or rehab yard if you have the dosh?
Bleddy nightmare for you all round, hugs xx


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## milliepops (5 February 2021)

i think from above posts there are not really funds for rehab yard or hospital stay, it's TPO's mum's horse anyway so mum would have the final say. It must be impossible to justify when you have your horse at home. plus I think OP mentioned above they don't have transport at the moment anyway. 

Horrible thing to be dealing with at any time but the flaming weather is not helping at all is it


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## windand rain (5 February 2021)

Probably not possible but could you cling film his leg for walking out it might just keep it a bit cleaner admittedly you will have to use quite a lot and cut it off each time but just a thought. Maybe over an ironed tea towel to dry it up a bit.


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## PapaverFollis (5 February 2021)

Sounds a bloody nightmare 😕 not really sure what to say other than that, TPO!  I'm really sorry you're dealing with this in this godawful weather.


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## DressageCob (5 February 2021)

I'm sorry TPO, sounds nightmarish. The weather is just so unhelpful for that type of routine. I hope the cream does the trick.


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## Gloi (5 February 2021)

windand rain said:



			Probably not possible but could you cling film his leg for walking out it might just keep it a bit cleaner admittedly you will have to use quite a lot and cut it off each time but just a thought. Maybe over an ironed tea towel to dry it up a bit.
		
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I was thinking of suggesting that, with a tubular bandage or similar over it.


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## DabDab (5 February 2021)

Gloi said:



			I was thinking of suggesting that, with a tubular bandage or similar over it.
		
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Yep, I've use a tubular bandage with a covering of cling film for the duration of a walk to keep a leg dry in the past. You obviously can't leave it on but for a 10-20 min walk it does the trick

Keeping everything crossed for you TPO, what a nightmare


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## Gingerwitch (5 February 2021)

Nothing to add but vibes xxxx


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## oldie48 (5 February 2021)

Just sending a hug!


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## doodle (5 February 2021)

Would he allow you to put a layer of tubey grip on for walks out? When sultie had his issues with he legs we did this. The tubey grip got wet but it stopped the mud getting on the skin and you can rewash every time used.

I have also used the cortavance spray on a pony at work. Much easier to just spray on and not have to touch.


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## TPO (5 February 2021)

The vet is just off the phone and there is to be nothing on his leg at all other than the cream.

I've to pick up sedatives and clip the leg. Dont fancy my chances as it is paper thin and sore with the infection and then open weeping wounds everywhere else. The more skin contact  that the cream gets the better.

To keep walking him and just make sure he is properly dried like has been done so far. So yeah another two weeks and then might be in a better position to know if he will heal or of that's his lymphatic system screwed as his progress is so incredibly slow.


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## Meowy Catkin (5 February 2021)

Oh gosh... poor lad.  

I'm so hoping that he makes good progress over the next two weeks. Well done for keeping up with his care, it sounds like an exhausting thing both physically and mentally.

Best wishes for a healthy horse at the end of it all.


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## ycbm (5 February 2021)

Oh boy,  I'd hoped you would have had better news than this by now.  Sorry to read that you are still struggling with this TPO, if I was close I'd be offering to share the walking. As it is I'll have to hope vibes and crossed fingers do something. 

.


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## poiuytrewq (5 February 2021)

What a nightmare. Sorry TPO 
 stay positive x


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## Arzada (5 February 2021)

TPO said:



			The vet is just off the phone and there is to be nothing on his leg at all other than the cream.

I've to pick up sedatives and clip the leg. Dont fancy my chances as it is paper thin and sore with the infection and then open weeping wounds everywhere else. The more skin contact  that the cream gets the better.
		
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I think I'd carefully try a razor first. You can better feel what is happening.


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## TPO (5 February 2021)

I'll give it a go, thanks.

Vet just off the phone, he couldn't stop thinking about Vinnie and his lack of progress either.

So now I've to pick up 3 days of oral/syringes of steroids and then collect tablets on Monday to do a 10 day course of them.

Just to see if they will kick start the lymphatic system and bring the swelling down as obviously the bute isnt enough. So yeah, will give that a go


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## brighteyes (5 February 2021)

TPO said:



			I'll give it a go, thanks.

Vet just off the phone, he couldn't stop thinking about Vinnie and his lack of progress either.

...
		
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None of us can. This is a horror story of unimaginably awful dimensions. Poor Vinnie. All I can do is add my most sincere hopes and wishes for his recovery.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (5 February 2021)

TPO said:



			I'll give it a go, thanks.

Vet just off the phone, he couldn't stop thinking about Vinnie and his lack of progress either.

So now I've to pick up 3 days of oral/syringes of steroids and then collect tablets on Monday to do a 10 day course of them.

Just to see if they will kick start the lymphatic system and bring the swelling down as obviously the bute isnt enough. So yeah, will give that a go
		
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I really hope they will help xx


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## TPO (5 February 2021)

Thank you 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻


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## twiggy2 (5 February 2021)

Sending you and vinnie (and your dad) as many vibes as I can muster, wishing vinnie and steady recovery.


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## Pearlsasinger (5 February 2021)

What a nightmare it all sounds!  Fingers crossed that the oral steroids do the trick.


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## Carrottom (5 February 2021)

Really hoping the steroids help and that the weather relents for you.


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## scats (6 February 2021)

Gosh, I’ve only just seen this thread.  Hope he is ok x


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## Pinkvboots (6 February 2021)

TPO said:



			I'm 75% sure hes had it before for mud fever. Its definitely been prescribed previously to one of mums horses for something. I cant remember vinnie's MF ever being that bad though so I might be remembering wrong unless he got it when he punctured his elbow (walking (hopping) vet bill that horse!)

I did ask about cream and vet said no for now but that might change once the swelling is down and treating the sores becomes a priority?

Thanks
		
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Another solution other than cream is that silver antibacterial spray nothing stick to it and it acts as a barrier, you can just buy that no prescription not expensive like flamazine but it's quite similar, I would ask your vet about it


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## TPO (6 February 2021)

Pinkvboots said:



			Another solution other than cream is that silver antibacterial spray nothing stick to it and it acts as a barrier, you can just buy that no prescription not expensive like flamazine but it's quite similar, I would ask your vet about it
		
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Thanks have a vet prescribed steroidal cream to apply twice daily for now.

Nothing else is to go on his leg and hes started on oral steroids too in the hope it kick starts his lymphatic system.

The cream (only used 3x, waiting until after my clipping attempt today to apply the morning dose) appears to be drying up his leg and there isnt as much oozing - frantically touching wood.

@Red-1 I tried calling Trinity but the consultant wasnt available. I had a couple of missed calls frommvarious numbers so one might have been him. I'll try again monday as desperately need to try everything to get the lymphatic system working.

Last night was the first time its dawned on me that we might lose him despite all of this, from a fat leg?! It was the vet calling after hours, when hes now off on holiday, having arranged additional meds that he didnt really want to use previously. My vet is amazing and I'm so grateful that he is doing his utmost to save V and get him healthy again. It just hit me how there is still a very long road to go and how slow the progress has been. Monday is the start of week 3...


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## Meowy Catkin (6 February 2021)

Yeah, it's scary how fragile horses are. They seem to operate on the limit of what is possible of an animal made from flesh and bone so any one thing going wrong has the potential to be catastrophic. 

Come on steroids - do your stuff.


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## Red-1 (6 February 2021)

TPO said:



			Thanks have a vet prescribed steroidal cream to apply twice daily for now.

Nothing else is to go on his leg and hes started on oral steroids too in the hope it kick starts his lymphatic system.

The cream (only used 3x, waiting until after my clipping attempt today to apply the morning dose) appears to be drying up his leg and there isnt as much oozing - frantically touching wood.

@Red-1 I tried calling Trinity but the consultant wasnt available. I had a couple of missed calls frommvarious numbers so one might have been him. I'll try again monday as desperately need to try everything to get the lymphatic system working.

Last night was the first time its dawned on me that we might lose him despite all of this, from a fat leg?! It was the vet calling after hours, when hes now off on holiday, having arranged additional meds that he didnt really want to use previously. My vet is amazing and I'm so grateful that he is doing his utmost to save V and get him healthy again. It just hit me how there is still a very long road to go and how slow the progress has been. Monday is the start of week 3...
		
Click to expand...

I would as the liquid has been very successful for a lot of people. It must be a diuretic as mine pee'ed for England while he was on it. It sorted him out the twice we have used it, from tree trunk legs and sore skin to normal, within a week.


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## meleeka (6 February 2021)

Your vet sounds wonderful. I think he’s made a good call, chucking everything at it now.  If good wishes could fix him he’d be better by now x


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## nikicb (6 February 2021)

I keep checking in and hoping for better news.  I don't have any useful suggestions, but I am yet another person thinking of you and willing Vinnie on.  xxx


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## Brownmare (6 February 2021)

I'm very late to this thread and horrified at the ordeal you and your poor horse are going through! I wanted to post to offer support and a couple of suggestions that may help you. One of my horses gets LV and had it really badly in November/December last year. Nothing I did seemed to help (usual steroid cream made no difference along with many other creams etc) and I was getting very worried then a neighbour told me about a product called Immunall that had really helped one of her horses. I bought the smallest bottle available and it turned her around almost straight away, the weeping stopped, the skin went back to its normal colour and the swelling came down. I had also ordered a set of Silver Whinney Sox which helped a lot too and she is still wearing them for 24/7 turnout and her skin is completely back to normal already. Neither are cheap options but they are definitely worth every penny. I really hope your horse recovers soon x


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## alibali (6 February 2021)

No useful suggestions TPO so just letting you know I've fingers and toes crossed for you and V.


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## Northern Hare (6 February 2021)

Hi TPO, I'm really sorry to hear of poor Vinnie's poorly leg. 

I don't know if this would be useful, but just in case it is of use....

My horse (TBx) had a bad case of Cellulitis and lymphangitis on his foreleg with swelling up to his elbow. The wound was a small over reach on the back of his pastern. The skin was exuding serum like poor Vinnie's. In the end the vet recommended Kaltostat Alginate dressings which are especially good for human patients with ulcers. You put the dressing on and it can stay in place for a few days so you don't need to disturb the skin. The dressing breaks down with the exudate and forms a thick gel which helps the skin heal.

Strangely enough, unconnected but I ended up in hospital with a nasty dose of Cellulitis on my leg as a result of an insect bite on the side of my calf. I was in for a fortnight as it turned into septicemia, so I was on drips etc to get it under control. Anyway, they also used the Kaltostat dressings on my leg and the wound healed really well and it was nice not to have fresh dressings put on every day! 

I hope Vinnie gets well soon!


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## Quigleyandme (6 February 2021)

Nothing useful to say except I wish you all the very best getting this under control. X


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## Surbie (6 February 2021)

Have just read all the thread and didn't realise you'd been battling this so long. Am so sorry - I hope he turns the corner soon.


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## Squeak (7 February 2021)

No useful suggestions from me either, just adding my get better soon wishes.  Really hope that the steroids help.


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## SEL (7 February 2021)

Checked in hoping for better news. Sending as many vibes as I virtually can to you and Vinnie - your vet sounds like they are doing everything they can do fingers crossed those steroids start to work **hugs**


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## LeneHorse (7 February 2021)

Sending vibes. You must be totally exhausted by now with all this going on. I really hope you don't get any of this snow and ice which is forecast for the next few days and can continue your walking programme.


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## cauda equina (7 February 2021)

Vibes from me too
Respect to you, TPO; your dedication and grit is awesome!
xxx


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## Gingerwitch (8 February 2021)

How is vinny today ?


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## PapaverFollis (8 February 2021)

Hope you're doing ok, TPO. This weather sucks.


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## southerncomfort (9 February 2021)

Gosh you must be utterly exhausted!

Hope he shows some good improvement soon.


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## TPO (9 February 2021)

Still walking 😬🥶


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## The Fuzzy Furry (9 February 2021)

TPO said:



View attachment 65412


Still walking 😬🥶
		
Click to expand...

I bloody feel for you, how is he coping?
Xx


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## PapaverFollis (9 February 2021)

TPO said:



View attachment 65412


Still walking 😬🥶
		
Click to expand...

Brutal. 🥶  "character building" 😂


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## southerncomfort (9 February 2021)

Thats what you call dedication!!


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## CanteringCarrot (9 February 2021)

I really admire the dedication here! That horse is so lucky to have you.


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## TPO (9 February 2021)

He seems a bit better. The steroid cream is working wonders at drying the leg up so the oozing is more or less just from one disgusting hole at the back of his pastern now.

Clipped the leg out as best as I could in Saturday and that's definitely helped with applying the cream. His leg is practically bald as most of the hair and (top layer of) skin has fallen off. Any part that isnt bald is a horrible scab 😬

He's weight bearing and walking out much better. He's "only" getting 5-6 walks a day as the weather has been so bad. The snow is almost welcome after the freezing wind and rain. Again poor dad has done the majority of the weekdays walks because I'm stuck at my laptop. He tells me that Vinnie prefers him anyway 🙄

He had 3 nights of syringed (orally) steroids on top of bute and doxycycline and is now on 100 steroid tablets a day for 10 days. Thankfully he ate them in his dinner; he can be really fussy and I had no idea how to get them into him otherwise as it's a once a day dose. But he munched up his dinner so happy days.

My vet is off until Thursday so to check back in then. Obviously if anything occurs meantime to call the other partner for advice but touch wood it doesn't come to that.


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## TPO (9 February 2021)

This was Saturday after my attempts to clip the leg. Most of the black fetlock hair has totally fallen out now.

This was after two applications of cream. Prior to that every scab you can see was oozing constantly so it was
a horrible mess.

The swelling is way down but still cant feel any tendon definition etc. You can see the bulging at the cornet band too. That is is already reduced because for a few days it looked like he could/would step out of his hoof 🙈







HHO only letting my upload these two so you are spared all the gory pictures!


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## PapaverFollis (9 February 2021)

Ooooof.

I'm really glad he's held on to that hoof capsule. Long may that continue. x


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## windand rain (9 February 2021)

That loks a lot better hopefully he is on the up now. Fingers firmly crossed he continues to improve. You and dad have done a stirling job


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## Pearlsasinger (9 February 2021)

Having lost a horse to cellulitis, I am so glad that your vet  prescribed the steroids and the Vinny has responded well to them.  Keep up the good work!


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## OrangeAndLemon (9 February 2021)

My equine massage therapist offered red light phototherapy to help similar scabs heal after dermatitis and it did seem to help speed up recovery.


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## Errin Paddywack (9 February 2021)

Back around 1970, my friend's late twenties PB arab got stuck in a stream.  He was there for a significant length of time before fire brigade got him out. All 4 of his legs swelled up and the skin and hair came off leaving huge scabs.  When he was getting better his owner went a way for a couple of days and I had the job of putting cream on his legs every day.  He was a real mess poor lad but made a full recovery.  I have no idea if that was cellulitis or not but it wasn't nice.

I am in awe of the dedication you and your dad have shown in getting Vinnie well again and am keeping everything crossed that you succeed.


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## ITPersonnage (9 February 2021)

I'll second the "awe" and everything crossed bit, you have both worked so hard, Vinny is a lucky boy to have you.


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## ycbm (9 February 2021)

Phew, so pleased to read about the progress!
.


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## Baywonder (9 February 2021)

<breathes a tentative sigh of relief> 

So glad to hear Vinny is making progress.


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## chaps89 (9 February 2021)

Bless Daddy TPO, that's dedication (and you too of course OP). I hope your mum is showing suitable levels of appreciation!


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## Lurfy (9 February 2021)

It looks like he is heading in the right direction at the moment, fingers crossed he continues healing. Go Vinnie! You and your dad deserve medals.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (10 February 2021)

Hoping all is still going in the right direction today x


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## fusspot (10 February 2021)

Late to this but so sorry you are going through this....it’s so tough for you all.I had a horse brought in to me as had really badly cut and taken a lot of skin off half his leg below the knee. Once the leg is in a position to have something else on....give Manuka Honey a go.Literally everything had been tried on this horses leg and it was disgusting.Firstly it was applied with some cling film and then bandaged, then was applied and left open....took about 5 weeks to totally clear but it was amazing.Even the vet couldn’t believe it as he honestly thought the horse would be put down due to the leg not healing.He was a Chestnut Thoroughbred,retired.Good luck.


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## Cragrat (10 February 2021)

That is a grim looking leg - poor Vinnie!  But isn't your dad such a superstar - he looks like the 4th emergency service out there in all weathers  

Bloody impressed by the whole team - you, your dad,  the vet and Vinne - for sheer determination.  I hope he really has turned a corner now.  I've only dealt with cellulitis once - thankfully no where near as bad as poor Vinnie.    

Wishing you some nice warm dry weather and s speedy recovery for Vinnie.


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## Lady2021 (10 February 2021)

That looks nasty poor horse. I am glad he is doing better.


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## ozpoz (10 February 2021)

That looks better TPO! It does take a while with that kind of swelling and serum to come down, but it looks as if Vinnie is heading the right way. Keep on doing what you're doing! xx


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## Landcruiser (10 February 2021)

Just discovered this thread, what a horrible experience TPO! Did you get anywhere with Trinity? My old horse is on L94 at the moment for a "kickstart" and has previously had his life saved I think by L94 when he was more or less tied up and bunged up internally due to some mystery virus. He went from only 2/3 poos in 24 hrs for weeks on end as I recall,  right up to 12 and stayed there ever since. I would highly recommend them and their products.


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## Gingerwitch (10 February 2021)

Keep going, they say the darkest hours are just for the dawn.

Go team Vinny - you will need to get a t-shirt with Team Vinny 2021 Cellulitis Recovery Tour on the back with your key dates.
Antibiotics and the date
Steroids and the date
Had walking from x to y

you never know the vets practice may sponsor it


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## brighteyes (10 February 2021)

I have been almost too nervous to check in on him but that photo looks very encouraging to me. Your dedication is beyond what I think I might be able to muster up, given the dreadful time of year and doubly freezing to usual temperatures. 

I second the manuka honey (and I'd probably give him some on sandwiches, too) if he gets to the non-prescription meds stage and still needs a bit of help with healing or barrier type cream. 

Bloody well done 'Team Vinnie'! *cheers like mad*


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## TPO (10 February 2021)

Aww thanks everyone 😊

My dad talks to anyone and hes been telling the neighbours about Vinnie (i.e. stands talking to them at the end of the road with rope wrapped around his hand (he wont take a telling and its been decades of trying) while Vinnie burls about like the impatient eejit that he is) and his walking duties.

Today a neighbour, with an even smaller tractor than dad's, came with a wee snow plough to clear a path for Vinnie (dad had already been out in his car to get shopping for said older neighbour so it wasnt to allow him to get out). Hes a local celebrity...the eejit who takes his horse for a walk in the middle of the night in all weathers!


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## milliepops (10 February 2021)

awwww superdad


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## brighteyes (10 February 2021)

TPO said:



			Aww thanks everyone 😊

My dad talks to anyone and hes been telling the neighbours about Vinnie (i.e. stands talking to them at the end of the road with rope wrapped around his hand (he wont take a telling and its been decades of trying) while Vinnie burls about like the impatient eejit that he is) and his walking duties.

Today a neighbour, with an even smaller tractor than dad's, came with a wee snow plough to clear a path for Vinnie (dad had already been out in his car to get shopping for said older neighbour so it wasnt to allow him to get out). Hes a local celebrity...the eejit who takes his horse for a walk in the middle of the night in all weathers!
		
Click to expand...

That is so wonderful...


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## SJJR (11 February 2021)

This is a superhuman effort from all involved I have fingers and toes crossed that you and your Dads perseverance pays off. Certainly looks like your heading in the right direction. I don't know if you ever look at Prince Fluffy Kareem site but they used the sleeve of an old jacket held up with what looked like vetwrap to pull over a horses leg to prevent flies. Maybe something that would protect from the rain/mud when walking out (I am assuming we are getting a straight swap of mud/rain for frozen ground and snow).


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## TPO (11 February 2021)

So theres a hole at the back of his pastern that is pus rather than serum. My dad has stuck his finger in it (😏🙄) and it's quite deep. Vinniendoesnt seem bothered about it being touched, cleaned, dried or poked.

Vet was back from holidays today so left an update at reception for him so he called back. Having left an update that swelling was down and could feel tendons his leg was back swollen (no tendon) and really hot at lunch time. 

My vet called me and asked for photos, specifically of hole, and video of him walking.

V has now gotten really sticky to walk. Nothing to do with cellulitis; he is just over it (don't blame him), he's bruised his toes with wear and the weather.

He has hoof boots and I did think this movement all of a sudden, when he hadnt done anything for months, would have a detrimental effect. Initially he was walking around a grass paddock so that was ok and then it was mainly on a muddy verge but now its snow. I couldn't get boots on his fronts because I coulsnt get a foot up with how sore he was behind.

So today was the first day with boots. Fine in theory but he needs socks on to stop rubs. Dad cant put hoof boots on pr off never mind socks and I physically cant be there because of work. I'm sneaking out as much as I can but it's not really manageable for more than 3-4 walks a day. Also quickly going through soaking socks! 

The snow has been pretty bad out here and it is so cold (it was saying-11/12 for last night?). When the snow was falling an East wind was blowing it right through the ventilated shed panels 🤦🏼‍♀️ so in the morning Vinnie was standing in snow and the bed was ruined. Hes in a big corner stable and was deep bedded to the door since his cellutlis so that's a lot of bedding.

Poor fat cob was made to swap stables but thankfully the snow and wind has died down. I'm dreading it all melting and flooding everything again but that's a worry for another day.

So yeah, vet said location of the hole is next to DDFT sheath. If the infection has eaten into that then its game over. Hes out tomorrow to do a thorough check and clean up of the area.

I'm hopeful that isnt the case because Vinnie has been on antibiotics from the start. Surely that would stop something like that happening?

It is possible that because the skin has thickened with the infection that the hole looks deeper than it actually is because of the almost proud flesh. So that's the theory I'm going with.

As he is also an eejit TB he wont stay in his stable on his own (grilled internal stables) unless I ACP him. If I do that walking him is even harder so we have only used ACP once.

This means the other two are only getting out for half hour at lunch time (I get 45mins and have to prep V for walk, dad walks him, I try to do 3 stables/water/hay, dry V off and return all 3 to stable in that time) and when I finish work they get chucked out again while the same routine happens. They have been really good but neither are really indoor horses and they much prefer being out in almost all weathers.

So yeah, just a bit over it all.

Also nice neighbours gesture of clearing the road just compacted it into an ice rink so now forced to wade through deep snow up and down the track. Why is nothing ever simple?!


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## DabDab (11 February 2021)

don't really know what to say but didn't want to read and run.
You sound remarkably calm and positive about it, but I guess you're probably not (unless you are a seriously zen sort). I know the snow in the bed would have been what pushed me over the edge.

Don't worry about the other horses though, they'll survive. At least they're not stuck in with beautiful weather out. Fingers crossed vet can help tomorrow.


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## Pearlsasinger (11 February 2021)

Oh I feel your frustration!  Why is nothing ever simple?  I'm sorry that I have nothing to offer except sympathy and <<vibes>>> for you all.


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## Rumtytum (11 February 2021)

And my sympathies to you all and positive thoughts too


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## ycbm (11 February 2021)

Arrgghh Sorry it's all so hard TPO, hoping for a break for you all soon. 
.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (11 February 2021)

Oh fudging stuff, TPO am sending hugs xx


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## brighteyes (11 February 2021)

Well, I'm still hoping for the best. Never say never, with horses... Come on Vinnie and most positive thoughts to you all xx


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## PapaverFollis (11 February 2021)

The other horses will be ok. They're getting out and getting a change of scene.  I have my fingers firmly crossed for no infection in the tendon now.  And the snow in the bed is a pain.  I have two stables that are going to be soaked when the temperature goes up! 

I'm so sorry you're dealing with all this. x


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## Baywonder (11 February 2021)

Oh crikey @TPO - I can't believe how much you are having thrown at you these last few weeks. 

Sending you healing vibes, hugs and everything else with bells on for an improvement soon.  X


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## holeymoley (11 February 2021)

My gosh what a time of it you’re having, one thing after another. Hopefully the hole is nothing serious. You must be mentally and emotionally worn out x


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## Squeak (12 February 2021)

Really hoping for positive news from the vet today.  It has to have been the worst possible time of year for this to have happened.

Echo what the others have said.  Don't worry about the other horses, they'll be fine and the weather is rubbish out there so there could be worse times for them to be in.


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## Red-1 (12 February 2021)

I feel for you. Fingers crossed that after next week, the weather brightens up and makes your life a bit easier.


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## OldNag (12 February 2021)

Everything firmly crossed for positive vet news today. Xx


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## LeneHorse (12 February 2021)

Fingers crossed for a positive outcome from vets visit today. You are giving this horse the best chance with everything you've been doing over the last few weeks.


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## meleeka (12 February 2021)

I’m not surprised you’ve all had enough but you’ve done amazingly well to cope with it all.  Keeping everything crossed for the vet visit x


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## alibali (12 February 2021)

You must all be exhausted. You've fought very hard for Vinnie. Sending positive vibes and crossing fingers your excellent nursing has paid off and you get good news today.


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## GinaGeo (12 February 2021)

You are doing an incredible job in an awful situation. Fingers tightly crossed for the vet visit. We look set for a thaw on Sunday. Hopefully that will make it a little less awful. 

Might something like hoof armour help with the sore feet without having to worry about Hoof Boots? I haven't used it - but a lot speak of it positively.


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## southerncomfort (12 February 2021)

Thinking of you today and hope the vets visit is a positive one.


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## Jeni the dragon (12 February 2021)

Will be keeping my fingers crossed for you all today!


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## oldie48 (12 February 2021)

This has been such a long and difficult journey but the pics do suggest that he's turned a corner. I was lucky in that although it was January when my horse was so poorly the weather was kinder. I hope the vet can reassure you about the "hole". I know I keep saying this but pain relief is absolutely key to keeping the horse moving. Also pleased he's on steroids, fortunately we didn't have to use them with mine as he showed an improvement very quickly but tbh it was a close thing we discussed it on the first day he was ill and only held back because the horse had PPID. He can come back from this, once mine turned a corner it was slow but steady progress. You are doing a fab job with him.


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## racebuddy (12 February 2021)

thinking of u today xxx


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## Ambers Echo (12 February 2021)

Really hoping you get good news today. You have fought so hard for him. Truly superhuman efforts to give him the best chance. You must be utterly shattered physically and emotionally. Thinking of you xxx


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## Peregrine Falcon (12 February 2021)

Hoping you have good news today.


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

Didnt get off to a great start when the vet phoned to say he was getting another vet to meet him there as two person job. That got me worried!

Long story short doesnt think the sheath is infected as V is too comfortable.

Long story long: The hole is where a tap would normally be done and he had a load more scabs around the fetlock where it could also be done. So you dont want to do a tap where there are open wounds.

The other entry options are in the cannon but V is still quite swollen so not easy there either  and some technical vet talk that I think meant it wouldnt get an accurate sample.

The risk seems fairly high of introducing an infection by doing the tap and obviously no one wants that. So the decision was made to leave it be and thoughts are that the hole looks deeper because of the thickening skin.

However despite the leg looking better than last week we are almost at the end of week 3, week 4 starts monday.

With the drugs hes had and how normal cases present they are  normally recovered, or well on the road to recovery, in 3 days.

So the vet has put a deadline on it. He has another two weeks or its a different conversation... he did say that if sufficient improvement is made he would possibly allow an extra week but that 3wks is it.

My vet spoke with the vet who actually did the surgery on my last horse. He works freelance/referral but also does a racing yard. He told my vet that he gets 2 or 3 cases a year like this (feels with a lot of cases) and they just dont heal. It is starting to sound like V might be one of those...

Until then keep on as we have been. Steroids run out on Wednesday and Thatll be that but hes to keep on with bute and antibiotics as well as steroid cream twice daily.

He also asked about a claim form because he had been expecting to see one given how substantial the bill is (🙈). The bill has fairly racked up to put it mildly and no, hes not insured. There goes the arena money the olds had allocated!

So yeah that's that...

On a different topic I am boiling mad about something and probably shouldn't even be posting about it but the rage is actually burning in me. I am generally far too lazy to have such extreme feelings!

So vet 2 held doped V while I went to back leg to speak with my vet. I saw her fiddling about in his mouth but I just thought she was maybe doing capillary test or summat. Didnt think on it to be honest because there were more pressing matters at hand.

So we were chatting etc and then we swapped places and she went back over leg stuff with my vet. I cant remember the exact sequence of events but I think she went back to the vehicles to get more stuff.

Next thing she is back in V mouth talking about him having a cap that needs removed and is so loose. I'll try and get a picture but he does have a firmly in place cap at the front of his mouth, he sees an excellent EDT every 6mths and hes never had any dental issues. He is also 14.

I dont know the proper name but she had a pair of like mini pliers and started hoiking at this tooth. My vet stopped her and said to leave it (dont know where my tongue was) and asked me what my EDT had said.

I honestly don't know because V is mums horse but my EDT is excellent and I have all of his records. I'm sure he'll have noted it on each visit since we got V but as its never been a thing I fully admit to never having given his mouth/tooth a second thought.

I've worked myself up so much that i am shaking with rage. Its probably partly displaced worry about V but still.

She had no right being in his mouth in the first place never mind taking it into her own hands without permission to pull a tooth. Then when she was stopped saying "poor boy that'll be ...(cant remember exact work but either awful or uncomfortable) as if I dont already do fecking everything in my power to provide the very best for all the horses.

If they are going to shoot him in 2wks I dont really think a 14yr old tooth matters or needs unnecessarily added to the flipping vet bill!! 

On top of that while she was standing alongside him she was palpating his back. He has no topline (wasnt in work) and has dropped a tonne due to this. He is slowly putting it back on with 4 feeds a day. Hes clearly lame and compensating with his movement... I dont understand why anyone would be palpating his back never mind while he was heavily sedated and had his foot up for inspection.

I dont want to complain or rock any boats because I cannot press enough how amazing my vet is and how brilliant he, the other partner and the office staff have been. Not just through this episode but we have had everything from colic, to fracture skull needing bone removed, my last horse who was an undiagnosable walking vet bill and everything in between. I dont want them to sack me! 

 Am I reacting badly/wrongly? I really feel aggrieved by her actions

But yeah I am so angry...oh pants, I've just angry cried a contact lens out 😏


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## Pearlsasinger (12 February 2021)

I would have been livid too.  In fact I would calm down and then email the practice manager to ask them *never* to send that particular vet to my yard again.  In the email I would stress how grateful I am for the work done by her colleagues in the past and currently, expressing that they have gone above and beyond but that you felt that her approach was unprofessional and reflected badly on the practice and you certainly didn't appreciate her attempt to remove a tooth without discussion.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (12 February 2021)

Oh ffs! Just what you didnt need on top of Vs current problems! 
PAS has beaten my to it, def email the practice x


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## southerncomfort (12 February 2021)

Have a bloody big hug! 

With all the hard work and dedication you and your dad have shown, you SO deserve Vinnie to heal and get better.  Their is still time so let's all hope and pray.  Come on Vinnie!

Vet no.2 was an insensitive oik.  I can well imagine that knowing how hard you've been working and all the hand walking and everything you've been doing, to have someone insinuate that you aren't doing your best for him...Well I'd have been raging too.

I do hope your vet had a little word with her afterwards!


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## milliepops (12 February 2021)

jesus. agree with PAS. what an interfering sod!


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## ycbm (12 February 2021)

I'd have been a mad as you TPO.

Everything still crossed for Vinnie,  you deserve a break! 
.


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## Roxylola (12 February 2021)

It doesn't sound like your usual vet appreciated her behaviour either. I'd certainly email and say you don't want her assisting or attending at all again. You don't need to explain you're a customet


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## PapaverFollis (12 February 2021)

I think I might not have been able to control my rage...  but also the shock of watching someone do something like that is paralysing so I don't know.  I would definitely email a complaint through.  Got no business messing with a seriously ill horse's mouth and back. FFS.

I'm so sorry that it's not looking better but will be hoping and praying for Vinnie to pull through after all your hardworking heartbreaking efforts. X


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## DabDab (12 February 2021)

Sorry there wasn't any better news to be had today. Fingers crossed his recovery continues x

Vet 2 sounds like a knob. I don't know what I would do to be honest...if it wasn't such a pants situation already then I would email/call and speak to someone about her. But if I had going on what you do right now I would probably leave it for the time being because dealing with the emotional ickiness of complaining about someone at the same time would just be too much.


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## PapaverFollis (12 February 2021)

That's true DabDab, it's just an added stress isn't it.  But my worry wouldn't her turning up again while all this is still ongoing so I'd want to communicate that somehow.


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## Ambers Echo (12 February 2021)

Vet 2 is an insensitive, interfering sod. I am sure your vet has already told her she was out of order. You have every right to be furious. As to what to do about it: Use your wise mind. What would make you feel better? Or less bad? You have every right to complain but that does not mean that's best for you. Some people would feel better for complaining and others worse.

I am so sorry you did not get better news but glad it was not the catastrophic news it could have been. Keeping everything firnly crossed for Vinnie.


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## meleeka (12 February 2021)

Oh goodness, the last thing you needed today.  It sounds like your vet wasn’t happy either, but kept it professional at the time.  If it were me I probably wouldn’t say anything now, but would thank your vet for stopping her when you next speak and say something along the lines of “I’m sure it goes without saying that she won’t be welcome near my horses again”.  Your vet was probably quite embarrassed at her behaviour, or one would hope so. 

Keeping everything crossed that he starts healing soon.  I think two weeks is kind of positive.  If there was no hope he would be throwing in the towel before that I’d have thought.


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## brighteyes (12 February 2021)

TPO said:



			Didnt get off to a great start when the vet phoned to say he was getting another vet to meet him there as two person job. That got me worried!

Long story short doesnt think the sheath is infected as V is too comfortable.

Long story long: The hole is where a tap would normally be done and he had a load more scabs around the fetlock where it could also be done. So you dont want to do a tap where there are open wounds.

The other entry options are in the cannon but V is still quite swollen so not easy there either  and some technical vet talk that I think meant it wouldnt get an accurate sample.

The risk seems fairly high of introducing an infection by doing the tap and obviously no one wants that. So the decision was made to leave it be and thoughts are that the hole looks deeper because of the thickening skin.

However despite the leg looking better than last week we are almost at the end of week 3, week 4 starts monday.

With the drugs hes had and how normal cases present they are  normally recovered, or well on the road to recovery, in 3 days.

So the vet has put a deadline on it. He has another two weeks or its a different conversation... he did say that if sufficient improvement is made he would possibly allow an extra week but that 3wks is it.

My vet spoke with the vet who actually did the surgery on my last horse. He works freelance/referral but also does a racing yard. He told my vet that he gets 2 or 3 cases a year like this (feels with a lot of cases) and they just dont heal. It is starting to sound like V might be one of those...

Until then keep on as we have been. Steroids run out on Wednesday and Thatll be that but hes to keep on with bute and antibiotics as well as steroid cream twice daily.

He also asked about a claim form because he had been expecting to see one given how substantial the bill is (🙈). The bill has fairly racked up to put it mildly and no, hes not insured. There goes the arena money the olds had allocated!

So yeah that's that...

On a different topic I am boiling mad about something and probably shouldn't even be posting about it but the rage is actually burning in me. I am generally far too lazy to have such extreme feelings!

So vet 2 held doped V while I went to back leg to speak with my vet. I saw her fiddling about in his mouth but I just thought she was maybe doing capillary test or summat. Didnt think on it to be honest because there were more pressing matters at hand.

So we were chatting etc and then we swapped places and she went back over leg stuff with my vet. I cant remember the exact sequence of events but I think she went back to the vehicles to get more stuff.

Next thing she is back in V mouth talking about him having a cap that needs removed and is so loose. I'll try and get a picture but he does have a firmly in place cap at the front of his mouth, he sees an excellent EDT every 6mths and hes never had any dental issues. He is also 14.

I dont know the proper name but she had a pair of like mini pliers and started hoiking at this tooth. My vet stopped her and said to leave it (dont know where my tongue was) and asked me what my EDT had said.

I honestly don't know because V is mums horse but my EDT is excellent and I have all of his records. I'm sure he'll have noted it on each visit since we got V but as its never been a thing I fully admit to never having given his mouth/tooth a second thought.

I've worked myself up so much that i am shaking with rage. Its probably partly displaced worry about V but still.

She had no right being in his mouth in the first place never mind taking it into her own hands without permission to pull a tooth. Then when she was stopped saying "poor boy that'll be ...(cant remember exact work but either awful or uncomfortable) as if I dont already do fecking everything in my power to provide the very best for all the horses.

If they are going to shoot him in 2wks I dont really think a 14yr old tooth matters or needs unnecessarily added to the flipping vet bill!!

On top of that while she was standing alongside him she was palpating his back. He has no topline (wasnt in work) and has dropped a tonne due to this. He is slowly putting it back on with 4 feeds a day. Hes clearly lame and compensating with his movement... I dont understand why anyone would be palpating his back never mind while he was heavily sedated and had his foot up for inspection.

I dont want to complain or rock any boats because I cannot press enough how amazing my vet is and how brilliant he, the other partner and the office staff have been. Not just through this episode but we have had everything from colic, to fracture skull needing bone removed, my last horse who was an undiagnosable walking vet bill and everything in between. I dont want them to sack me!

Am I reacting badly/wrongly? I really feel aggrieved by her actions

But yeah I am so angry...oh pants, I've just angry cried a contact lens out 😏
		
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I don't actually know where to start with this...

More healing vibes for poor Vinnie. Once you set off down roads like this, it's madly difficult when to pull over and switch the engine off for good. My heart goes out to you.

Don't pay anything over attending fees - and I'd miff at those- for the 2nd opinion vet. Be a shitty practice that'd argue the toss, especially if this is a no-win situation.
I'm nearly crying, too.


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## Peregrine Falcon (12 February 2021)

Oh my goodness. I hope you have managed to breathe now. I'd be furious and certainly be contacting the practice. I would advise only paying for the treatment carried out by 1st vet.

I do hope that Vinnie starts healing up soon. You've certainly been put to the test this time.


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

Thanks for the replies and well wishes. I do really appreciate them


I will talk to my vet about it when I next speak with him. Aside from my anger I just can't believe that a vet would do that. I'd never met her before and she didnt ask permission or even say anything until she was in his mouth pulling on the tooth.

I have messaged my EDT just looking for some guidance. My thoughts are that removing the tooth would cause issues and I guess just looking for confirmation of that.

As much as I appreciate all the positive thoughts I think we all know that this story is not going to have a happy ending.

It's almost week 4 and steroids end then. He's had 3 wks of intensive care and it hasn't been enough to fix him. I just dont know what to do.

I feel so guilty seeing him and I just dont know if I have it in me for another 2wks knowing that it will ultimately be in vain. On the other hand I want to give him every possible chance. Just really upset right now, sorry


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## ycbm (12 February 2021)

Your pain is palpable,  TPO. I wish there was something the might of HHO could do


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## Squeak (12 February 2021)

TPO I'm so hoping he manages to make a miraculous recovery and pulls through.

Just in relation to the tooth pulling, one of mine had a cap on it's tooth and when the EDT removed it, it could have looked like he was trying to remove the whole tooth.  I'm not in any way saying that it was an appropriate time to remove the cap but is it possible that she was trying to just remove the cap rather than the tooth?


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## Ambers Echo (12 February 2021)

My heart's breaking for you and it does look bleak. But I'm not sure the vet would put you or Vinnie through 2 more weeks of this hellish regime if he genuinely thought it was hopeless. Maybe that's a direct question you need to ask him? Im so sorry.


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## cobgoblin (12 February 2021)

I've been following the thread but haven't commented before.
I'm so sorry things aren't going so well but don't give up hope yet.

Where that vet is concerned, I wouldn't mess about but would put in a formal complaint.


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

My lovely EDT has kindly called me to discuss.

He confirmed my thoughts. It's a baby tooth that was never shed.

Fair enough removing it in a youngster as the gap will close but not in an adult horse. It's always been solid (still is but now the gum has a wee bruise) not loose as she claimed. I am in his mouth four times a day administering drugs and always look at his silly wee tooth.

To remove it now would also disrupt his wear pattern and the lower teeth would grow up into the gap.

Also horse has 2wks deadline, wtf was she even doing even looking in his mouth (or palpating his back)?

So angry! 

I am worried about doing the whole "she's never to attend my horses" and then there's an emergency when she is the on call vet 😬


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## Red-1 (12 February 2021)

TPO said:



			Thanks for the replies and well wishes. I do really appreciate them


I will talk to my vet about it when I next speak with him. Aside from my anger I just can't believe that a vet would do that. I'd never met her before and she didnt ask permission or even say anything until she was in his mouth pulling on the tooth.

I have messaged my EDT just looking for some guidance. My thoughts are that removing the tooth would cause issues and I guess just looking for confirmation of that.

As much as I appreciate all the positive thoughts I think we all know that this story is not going to have a happy ending.

It's almost week 4 and steroids end then. He's had 3 wks of intensive care and it hasn't been enough to fix him. I just dont know what to do.

I feel so guilty seeing him and I just dont know if I have it in me for another 2wks knowing that it will ultimately be in vain. On the other hand I want to give him every possible chance. Just really upset right now, sorry
		
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it was certainly the wrong time to be looking at other treatments, and sensitive to say the least.

Hold steady for the two weeks, the horse I knew took as long. I think the leg does look a lot better. Fingers crossed. X


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

The infamous tooth


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## cobgoblin (12 February 2021)

TPO said:



			My lovely EDT has kindly called me to discuss.

He confirmed my thoughts. It's a baby tooth that was never shed.

Fair enough removing it in a youngster as the gap will close but not in an adult horse. It's always been solid (still is but now the gum has a wee bruise) not loose as she claimed. I am in his mouth four times a day administering drugs and always look at his silly wee tooth.

To remove it now would also disrupt his wear pattern and the lower teeth would grow up into the gap.

Also horse has 2wks deadline, wtf was she even doing even looking in his mouth (or palpating his back)?

So angry! 

I am worried about doing the whole "she's never to attend my horses" and then there's an emergency when she is the on call vet 😬
		
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If there was an emergency, would you want or trust her?
.


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## OrangeAndLemon (12 February 2021)

TPO I've got my fingers crossed for V and Team V. Your monumental effort is inspiring and you must be absolutely drained. You've got him this far and its only down to your commitment he's still got a fighting chance. The infection hasn't spread so you are still winning. Progress might be slow but it is progress.


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## doodle (12 February 2021)

A vet badly misdiagnosed Minto and literally almost killed him. She said it was his arthritis and suggested acupuncture, I queried laminitis, was told very dismissively of course it wasn’t as he wasn’t the type. And to turn him out 24/7. 2 days later I called “my” vet to come and pts as his “arthritis “ had deteriorated to such and extent. “My” vet immediately diagnosed laminitis and I was lucky he pulled through. But of course the long term damage was done and could have been prevented.  I didn’t put in a proper complaint but did raise the issue and said that veg would not be welcome again and if she was on call in emergency they would have to call someone else in or I would use a different practise.

She then appeared at work and did an equally rubbish job, boss complained and she “moved on” pretty soon after.


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

The leg and grotty hole


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

Kamikaze said:



			A vet badly misdiagnosed Minto and literally almost killed him. She said it was his arthritis and suggested acupuncture, I queried laminitis, was told very dismissively of course it wasn’t as he wasn’t the type. And to turn him out 24/7. 2 days later I called “my” vet to come and pts as his “arthritis “ had deteriorated to such and extent. “My” vet immediately diagnosed laminitis and I was lucky he pulled through. But of course the long term damage was done and could have been prevented.  I didn’t put in a proper complaint but did raise the issue and said that veg would not be welcome again and if she was on call in emergency they would have to call someone else in or I would use a different practise.

She then appeared at work and did an equally rubbish job, boss complained and she “moved on” pretty soon after.
		
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I heard that story from someone else, who lived in auchterarder, about a (small blonde female) vet who was covering at a local practice doing this exact thing? Crazy if its you and shocking that it happened.

If it is the same practice and vet then I put in a complaint about her too and banned her from seeing my horse. They still sent her once and thankfully I arrived half an hour behind her because she had put a bandage on too tight, as in dangerously tight. Horse couldnt put his hoof down and if he had it on any longer there would/could have been permanent damage.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (12 February 2021)

Just caught this thread and oh my days what a saga.

I really feel for you and your family TPO and sending good vibes for V.

Kia had lymphocystic Vasculitis and it was so sore and raw he couldn’t walk. Was three weeks before the vet and I got on top of it.  This just looks like a nightmare. Hugs and vibes xx


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## doodle (12 February 2021)

TPO said:



			I heard that story from someone else, who lived in auchterarder, about a (small blonde female) vet who was covering at a local practice doing this exact thing? Crazy if its you and shocking that it happened.
		
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Small but not blonde.


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## Amymay (12 February 2021)

What a ‘not’ great day (understatement) 😞

When you speak to your vet tell him how furious and upset you were (are) about this other vets actions.

_But_ what I will say is that some vets do love getting their hands on a problem and looking at the whole horse (when it’s obvious what they’re there to treat).  I used to have a vet like that.  Real old school guy who liked nothing more than giving an animal a good going over and discussing what was in front of him.  Of course he’d never have attempted a procedure like your vet did today.  But every animal was a learning experience....

Of course, we’d all be furious about the mouth incident, and rightly so xx


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## milliepops (12 February 2021)

So good that the EDT backed you up, not that it should be necessary.  even if it did eventually need removing,  now is not the time to deal the horse another blow. Vet can butt out.

Sending all possible healing vibes. If you weren't at the opposite end of the country I'd muscle in and give you all a few days off from the grind x


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

Amymay said:



			What a ‘not’ great day (understatement) 😞

When you speak to your vet tell him how furious and upset you were (are) about this other vets actions.

_But_ what I will say is that some vets do love getting their hands on a problem and looking at the whole horse (when it’s obvious what they’re there to treat).  I used to have a vet like that.  Real old school guy who liked nothing more than giving an animal a good going over and discussing what was in front of him.  Of course he’d never have attempted a procedure like your vet did today.  But every animal was a learning experience....

Of course, we’d all be furious about the mouth incident, and rightly so xx
		
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The complete lack of discussion further to being in his mouth and over his back is my problem.

If she had discussed it fair enough but she literally whipped the veterinary equivalent of pliers out and started pulling on the (firm) tooth.

I completely appreciate what you have said and my vet is like that, so thorough and considers the whole picture.

Her taking matters into her own hands with no discussion let alone permission is what has really got my back up.

I will speak to my vet next Wednesday when I've to phone with the next update (but will call sooner if anything changes for the worse)


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## ozpoz (12 February 2021)

I would absolutely complain/query what on earth was she doing? I would have been so upset that anyone would treat my horse as if it was a random object to be investigated while standing on 3 legs. 
But , I think his leg is looking great and that a 3 day turnaround was certainly not my experience for such an amount of swelling! It took months before all the inflammation had cleared totally. Month 2 was turnout thankfully. Keep going, every picture shows an improvement that you probably don’t notice with seeing it every day.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (12 February 2021)

milliepops said:



			Sending all possible healing vibes. If you weren't at the opposite end of the country I'd muscle in and give you all a few days off from the grind x
		
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I think there would be a number of us doing the same!


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## chaps89 (12 February 2021)

Oh gosh TPO. I don't think you need to apologise, you've got a really tough task on your hands and that sounds like a stressful visit earlier.


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## Surbie (12 February 2021)

You and your Dad have done such an amazing job supporting Vinnie, in horrendous conditions. I'm so sorry it wasn't a more positive visit for you today, particularly with how exhausting the timetable has been. Given what you've said about your vet tho, who sounds amazing, surely he wouldn't be talking about allowing another 2 weeks if V wasn't starting to show improvement?

Also, I'd definitely be complaining about vet #2, totally unnecessary and would have me absolutely shaking with rage.


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

Thank you, I really do appreciate the support.

I've ordered immunall supplement recommended up thread and weatherbeeta therapy boots.

I asked the vet if V could wear stable wraps/boots, as bandaging is a definite no obviously, and he said that was fine but just to use a melanin(sp?) dressing to stop gunk from the hole sticking to the boot and risking an uncomfortable removal. I've asked both companies if they could expedite asap but appreciate that everyone is busy and the mail is terrible just now between one thing and another.

The silver sox previously recommended look good but I just dont think they would arrive from Sweden in time given all this brexit drama on top of normal postage times.

I hope that my vet thinks there is hope and isnt just trying to gently ease me into it. Hes pts two of mine previously so I hope he knows me well enough to know that isnt needed.

I might buy the woofwear mudfever boots too so that "the hole" is kept clean on walks too. 

All these boots might just fry SuperDads brain! I caught him literally crawling about on his hands and knees around Vinnies legs to fasten his (put on sideways?!) hoofboots. I explained why that is the most unsafe thing to do never mind with Neurotic TB and he told me it was fine because he had already had a word with V about it 🤦🏼‍♀️ see what I'm dealing with?! Randomly the horse scared from his own shadow is ok with a hi vis rustling person crawling underneath him?!


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## Peregrine Falcon (12 February 2021)

Would/has manuka honey been mentionned? Is it a possibility?


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## chaps89 (12 February 2021)

That sounds EXACTLY like my (non-horsey) dad! Blissful ignorance I think?!


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## DabDab (12 February 2021)

😂 your dad
Sounds like my OH. Back when Arts was tricky to rug OH used to tell her that he would give her a treat if she was good. I did try explaining that this probably worked because it made him act more confident, but no, he was (and is to this day), absolutely certain that the promise of a hay cob made her refrain from kicking his head in.


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

Peregrine Falcon said:



			Would/has manuka honey been mentionned? Is it a possibility?
		
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My nurse friend told me never to use that in a wound. She used to post on here (Kez1001) and I think she linked to papers about it. I think it can cause over granulisation (if that's even a word). I'll search for the post but since we discussed it I've always had a fear of using it 🙈


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

DabDab said:



			😂 your dad
Sounds like my OH. Back when Arts was tricky to rug OH used to tell her that he would give her a treat if she was good. I did try explaining that this probably worked because it made him act more confident, but no, he was (and is to this day), absolutely certain that the promise of a hay cob made her refrain from kicking his head in.
		
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Dad got a kick in the ribs the other night because he was "helping" by pushing Vinnie along when.he was being sticky to lead.

Thankfully just a glancing blow and as it was approx -10 he had eleventy million layers on. That's all I need is him out of action!

But yeah, this is his chosen method of encouraging Vinnie to walk and he assures me it's the only way and much easier as a 2 person job 😏🙄


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## Peregrine Falcon (12 February 2021)

That's interesting. Perhaps it shouldn't be used on certain types of wound then? A youngster I had suffered a bad injury, I used manuka honey on a dressing, no trace or scarring.


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## Upthecreek (12 February 2021)

The commitment and dedication from you and your dad in the horrific weather conditions of the past few weeks is awesome. I really hope you get the outcome you deserve 🙏


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## Britestar (12 February 2021)

Manuka can help clean up a wound.  Currently using it on an abcess.  Has really helped.  Don't discount it.


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

Peregrine Falcon said:



			That's interesting. Perhaps it shouldn't be used on certain types of wound then? A youngster I had suffered a bad injury, I used manuka honey on a dressing, no trace or scarring.
		
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https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/manuka-honey-wounds.655296/#post-12344496

Found the post and I was remembering wrong. The thread was about proud flesh. I couldn't hand on heart remember what was said in person.

He is still to get his steroid cream applied 2x a day and I dont want to risk anything interfering with that.

I dont even know if the hole should be encouraged to heal or if it's good that there is an exit point? That's something I'll need to ask because I just accepted that I was to keep on doing what I've been doing with an emphasis on keeping the hole clean.

Yeah, I honestly dont know what to do for the best.

Hes wearing socks with his hoof boots but still the boots are rubbing his heels. Under normal circumstances there is a gradual build up to wearing his boots to condition his hooves, much like working barefoot from the field. However this isnt normal circumstances. Hes worn his toes right back and they are bruised. I dont know.whats the lesser evil. Trying to just use boots for a couple of walks a day but then his toes but then what about his heels and I really just dont know what to do for the best


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## Britestar (12 February 2021)

Before


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

Britestar said:



			Manuka can help clean up a wound.  Currently using it on an abcess.  Has really helped.  Don't discount it.
		
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I'll ask the vet about it. Thanks


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## Britestar (12 February 2021)

TPO said:



			I'll ask the vet about it. Thanks
		
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My friend is a tissue viability specialist.  The vets ask her for advice.  She recommends manuka, hence my use of it in this case.  
This horse belongs to a Vet!


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## TPO (12 February 2021)

Britestar said:



			My friend is a tissue viability specialist.  The vets ask her for advice.  She recommends manuka, hence my use of it in this case. 
This horse belongs to a Vet!
		
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Just in case my vet okays it what do you purchase and from where?

Time isn't on my side and company despatch times seem to be longer (covid?) so need a reliable and quick delivery service. Thank you


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## Britestar (12 February 2021)

Vets should have it in stock.  Activon or a generic. Failing that a pharmacy should have it too.
I just use it on a melolin dressing, then soffban over the top,  cotton wool and then either a vetrap or old fashioned exercise bandage. 

Just tight enough to keep it all in place.


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## SEL (12 February 2021)

I used incredibly expensive manuka honey from a local health food shop on a horse who tried to slice it's hoof off. We had a sterile pad and bandage over it - vet provided antibiotics too. It worked.

No use if its the right thing to do in your situation - but I really hope you get a break soon


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## DabDab (12 February 2021)

Holland and Barrett sell manuka at varying levels of potency. 

For his hooves would it be possible to dry poultice with excess padding? Some thick leather or rubber/stiff foam pad on the hoof sole with vet wrap over to hold in place


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## cobgoblin (12 February 2021)

If there is still pus coming out of the hole, I would think its best to let it drain until its all out before trying to promote any wound healing.


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## Lurfy (13 February 2021)

I have used manuka honey over the years with success, but never on a wound like Vinnie has, so did not mention it here. 

I would do as you are doing and stick to the cortisone cream and not add anything which may interfere with it. 

As for the tooth removal, that would really pi** me off. The horse is having a shi* time, lets not make it shi**er!


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## ITPersonnage (13 February 2021)

Exactly, this course of treatment seems to be working, let's not bu**er it up shall we ?


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## brighteyes (13 February 2021)

TPO said:



https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/manuka-honey-wounds.655296/#post-12344496

Found the post and I was remembering wrong. The thread was about proud flesh. I couldn't hand on heart remember what was said in person.

He is still to get his steroid cream applied 2x a day and I dont want to risk anything interfering with that.

I dont even know if the hole should be encouraged to heal or if it's good that there is an exit point? That's something I'll need to ask because I just accepted that I was to keep on doing what I've been doing with an emphasis on keeping the hole clean.

Yeah, I honestly dont know what to do for the best.

Hes wearing socks with his hoof boots but still the boots are rubbing his heels. Under normal circumstances there is a gradual build up to wearing his boots to condition his hooves, much like working barefoot from the field. However this isnt normal circumstances. Hes worn his toes right back and they are bruised. I dont know.whats the lesser evil. Trying to just use boots for a couple of walks a day but then his toes but then what about his heels and I really just dont know what to do for the best
		
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Insane amounts of duct tape over the stretchy adhesive bandage stuff, around the hoof only?


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## brighteyes (13 February 2021)

SEL said:



			I used incredibly expensive manuka honey from a local health food shop on a horse who tried to slice it's hoof off. We had a sterile pad and bandage over it - vet provided antibiotics too. It worked.

No use if its the right thing to do in your situation - but I really hope you get a break soon
		
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Gram-for-gram the H&B stuff will be bargain basement in comparison!


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## Pearlsasinger (13 February 2021)

I have a vague recollection that endurance riders carry emergency shoe replacement, rather like plaster of Paris.  I hope someone on the forum knows more about it than I do but it could be useful in your position


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## ester (13 February 2021)

honey encourages granulation, sometimes you want that, sometimes you don't and then you end up debriding. I would definitely be led by my vet on that. I think usually it is more of an issue when people carry on using it too long.

The rest of the leg looks a lot better, not sure which hoof boots you have but they're definitely not interfering with the pussy bit when moving?

Unbelievable of the other vet to faff around with teeth *right now*


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## PapaverFollis (13 February 2021)

I was going to suggest duct taping thick foam hoof pads to his feet but didn't know if I was being stupid.


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## ester (13 February 2021)

Not stupid at all but poss slippy in the current conditions.


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## DabDab (13 February 2021)

ester said:



			Not stupid at all but poss slippy in the current conditions.
		
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Vet wrap is usually fine slip-wise though


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## ester (13 February 2021)

yup  I was only thinking duct tap


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## Marnie (13 February 2021)

Keeping the healing vibes coming, you and your dad are doing an amazing job.


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## misst (13 February 2021)

Only just caught up again TPO and I can't believe what an awful time you and Vinnie (and your Dad) are having. He must be a fighter to be still going. You and your dad deserve a medal. As for the lady vet - words fail me and I'd like to say I'm shocked. But I'm not - seen too many like this - no empathy and no real understanding of what the owner might be needing/wanting. I've been lucky and only really had this once, all the other vets I've had have been amazing - but it only takes one naff one unfortunately. Several friends have had similar experiences to you.
Keeping everything crossed for you and Vinnie, if effort counted for anything he'd be the fittest horse around.xx


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## Roasted Chestnuts (13 February 2021)

I get my manuka from Aldi 👍🏼 Did wonders
For the wee guys legs when he caught caught over the fence. No scarring and no granulation and all the hair grew back 👍🏼


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## The Fuzzy Furry (14 February 2021)

I hope you've all got through the weekend ok TPO?
Any improvement in him and that hole? Xx


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## SusieT (14 February 2021)

I actually think if you go back and look at your first photos that leg has massively improved and its good the gunge is getting out and natural it would burst out at the bottom. Just checking is your vet very experienced with more difficult leg wounds as horses don't do anything fast in my experience - wounds take weeks to heal and thats only once they have deigned to 'declare' themslves (think of all those abscesses that grumble on then pop). Ask your vet about cleaning the hole with something , flushing it out. It is hard work I'm sure - and if the horse is miserable and going to be miserable for weeks nobody would blame you for quitting, but I think I would see light at the end of the tunnel if you go back and look at your previous pics.


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## SO1 (14 February 2021)

I admire your dedication, you and your dad are doing a great job. 

I too would be very annoyed about the vet trying to take out the tooth without your permission. If she had removed it that would have probably required daily flushing which on top of all the treatment you are doing would be a lot of extra and if that got infected you would have another problem to deal with, at the moment tooth not causing any harm, and he is on bute so even if it was an issue he would having pain relief and it could wait until he had got better from his leg infection, same with his back.


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## Gloi (14 February 2021)

TPO said:



			My nurse friend told me never to use that in a wound. She used to post on here (Kez1001) and I think she linked to papers about it. I think it can cause over granulisation (if that's even a word). I'll search for the post but since we discussed it I've always had a fear of using it 🙈
		
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My sister who had very fragile skin had a lot of treatment with manuka honey patches on wounds (NHS wound clinic) and they worked wonders.


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## Gloi (14 February 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Insane amounts of duct tape over the stretchy adhesive bandage stuff, around the hoof only?
		
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Or duct tape camping mat onto hoof.
A couple of layers of hoof armour may do though


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## TPO (14 February 2021)

I've started measuring his leg; if I had any functioning brain cells left I would have done that from the start 🤦🏼‍♀️

So his good hind is 9" around the cannon and 10" just above his fetlock.

On saturday bad leg was 10 & 12, today it is 9.75 ish & 11.5

The leg has gotten hotter again, more so on Saturday, but I'm putting that down to the vet palpating it and probing into the hole 😬

He's playing up to lead (mainly taking advantage of Dad!) and when I've had him out in to top paddock hes been having a good old time rolling in the snow with some snakey head, leg flailing and even some trot. Hes on 2 bute a day, plus steroids and antibiotics, but he appears to be ok in himself?

He is, understandably, less keen to go out on all these walks as time goes on. SuperDad announced today that he "knows the secret how to get Vinnie to lead". I asked what it was and apparently he doesnt actually know but there must be one because V walked up and down the track 8x with no dramas and was marching out 🤦🏼‍♀️😏🙄 so if anyone does know "the secret" please let me know!

I'm feeling a lot more positive and I really think he will be ok. I'm putting a lot of hope on the poor supplement and socks. I just hope that they arrive soon. The postwoman was saying that they have a massive backlog due to the weather 🤞🏻

I am a bit concerned about the 2wk deadline too for all the reasons mentioned above. The vet said 2wks and possibly 3 if hes made good progress. Mum said today its 2 and that's it. I really don't think all of the swelling will be totally gone, the hole healed, whole leg healthy/scab free and he'll be ok to return to life as normal in 2wks.

My vet is very straight down the line and I think if he offers V an extra week it should be taken.

I'm sure I've demonstrated in here enough that I'm not against pts and would definitely choose it over an animal suffering. When things were at their worst my vet still said he thought V deserved a chance.

So I'm having a *slight* stress over that potential situation but I just dont have the energy to argue about it right now. I'm trying to do the groundwork being very enthusiastic about his progress and cueing dad to day the same sort of thing. The improvements on the measuring tape are helping so far.

The steroids finish on Wednesday night so I guess it's a case of seeing how he goes once he's off them.

Thanks for asking after him, I do really appreciate it 😊 I told dad tonight, when we were talking about the reduction in the swelling, that the reason for that was the (at that point) 12 pages of <<vibes>> and well wishes for V! He thinks I'm mad but its probably genetic so jokes on him 🤪

ETA yes, vet is extremely experienced as is the other partner who first attended. My vet also consulted with a leading orthopaedic specialist; said specialist, alongside referral work, is the vet for a racing yard. He is experienced with TBs that get/have cellulitis. The specialist said out of all the many cases he sees there are 2-3 a year that just don't get better. It was looking like Vinnie was one of them but I'm hopeful that we've finally turned a corner...and I'm an eternal pessimist so 😬😬😬


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## Red-1 (15 February 2021)

It all sounds very positive! I'm also sure the vet never intended the 2-3 weeks to be for a healed Vinnie, just that he was making improvement. 

Your dad sounds great. I have often found that your bond with a horse (yes, I do believe that exists) only comes when the horse has been ill. Several of ours have been good horses, but not until they know they are seriously ill do they become 'yours' on the inside. I spoke with some people about it when one of ours changed, they said it didn't matter what you did, but the horse will see that they were ill ad vulnerable, you kept turning up and they stayed safe and got better, ergo you saved them.


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## TPO (15 February 2021)

Red-1 said:



			It all sounds very positive! I'm also sure the vet never intended the 2-3 weeks to be for a healed Vinnie, just that he was making improvement.

Your dad sounds great. I have often found that your bond with a horse (yes, I do believe that exists) only comes when the horse has been ill. Several of ours have been good horses, but not until they know they are seriously ill do they become 'yours' on the inside. I spoke with some people about it when one of ours changed, they said it didn't matter what you did, but the horse will see that they were ill ad vulnerable, you kept turning up and they stayed safe and got better, ergo you saved them.
		
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Could you please let Vinnie know this? He's his usual crabbit self again; he was sooky and cuddly when he was really ill initially but that's a distant memory now! Ha ha


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## Red-1 (15 February 2021)

TPO said:



			Could you please let Vinnie know this? He's his usual crabbit self again; he was sooky and cuddly when he was really ill initially but that's a distant memory now! Ha ha
		
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Ah, but it is your dad who did the night walking. 

Not saying it was all down to your dad at all! Just that Vinnie now is at one with him.


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## brighteyes (15 February 2021)

Gloi said:



			Or duct tape camping mat onto hoof.
A couple of layers of *hoof armour* may do though
		
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Is that the fibreglass tape you wet?


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## Gloi (15 February 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Is that the fibreglass tape you wet?
		
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No it comes in a tube with an applicator gun. Two ingredients mix and set in a hard layer on the sole , epoxy plus other strengthening ingredients I think. Hard wearing and gives protection from bruising.


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## brighteyes (15 February 2021)

TPO said:



			He is, understandably, less keen to go out on all these walks as time goes on. SuperDad announced today that he "knows the secret how to get Vinnie to lead". I asked what it was and apparently he doesn't actually know but there must be one because V walked up and down the track 8x with no dramas and was marching out 🤦🏼‍♀️😏🙄 so if anyone does know "the secret" please let me know!  *Vinnie isn't stupid.*



I am a bit concerned about the 2wk deadline too for all the reasons mentioned above. The vet said 2wks and possibly 3 if hes made good progress. _Mum said today its 2_ *Ignore her, your dad will.*  and that's it. I really don't think all of the swelling will be totally gone, the hole healed, whole leg healthy/scab free and he'll be ok to return to life as normal in 2wks.

My vet is very straight down the line and I think if he offers V an extra week it should be taken.  *I agree*

It was looking like Vinnie was one of them but I'm hopeful that we've finally turned a corner...and I'm an eternal pessimist so 😬😬😬
		
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We are probably as stressed as you are about all this one step forwards nonsense, but I agree. You don't get this far and chuck it all in unless there's a serious retrograde step. If Vinnie is returning to his usual obnoxious and difficult self, he's mending mentally as well as physically.


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## brighteyes (15 February 2021)

Gloi said:



			No it comes in a tube with an applicator gun. Two ingredients mix and set in a hard layer on the sole , epoxy plus other strengthening ingredients I think. Hard wearing and gives protection from bruising.
		
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It's a right faff to apply and very pricey.


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## alibali (15 February 2021)

Just caught with your update from Friday onwards TPO. What a rollercoaster. For what it's worth my initial thought on seeing the latest photo was goodness what an improvement, though granted the pus is not a great development. Sometimes when you look at something several times every day and when you're tired and stressed and emotional it's hard to be objective and see the progress and not focus on the negative. Glad you now seem to have seen reason for a glimmer of hope. There's a long way to go before he's out of the woods of course but I'm still keeping my fingers firmly crossed for you all. No matter the outcome you and Superdad will know you've done everything humanly possible with his gruelling nursing care.


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## Reacher (15 February 2021)

The idea of taking measurements is a good one, makes it easier to be objective. 
This is probably a silly question as obviously I’m no vet (and I’ve never had a case of cellulitis), but surely for the ones that don’t heal there must be a reason - eg lack of essential mineral, or wrong antibiotic or something- and can they not do blood tests to find out? 
Anyway hope you and your dad are doing ok and hope the adverse weather improves to make life easier for you


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## Surbie (15 February 2021)

Measurements are a great idea when you are looking at the same thing over and over - good shout! 

I was assuming 2 weeks was for a marked improvement, not for it to be totally healed. But it does sound like it's going the right way, particularly if V is returning to normal mentally. Your Dad is an absolute cracker though - love that he knows 'the secret' and Vinnie trusts him. 

Hoping the better weather helps with the walking.


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## SJJR (15 February 2021)

I have a pair of Cavallo wraps size 4-6 never used happy to post to you if it will help with boot rubbing. I have used woofwear poultice boots to turnout, not very thick sole but just enough protection to stop being sore on rough ground. I have had a pair over heartbar shoes for turnout the past month to stop snow balling up and not worn through yet. Might be an idea if toes/heel bulbs are sore. 

You and your Dad will physically and mentally exhausted with what you are going through.


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## Gloi (15 February 2021)

brighteyes said:



			It's a right faff to apply and very pricey.
		
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Not too bad once you get the hang of it I find.


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## Gloi (15 February 2021)

Might be expensive,I don't know, but could you take a sample of pus for the vet to send to lab and see what antibiotics are best for the infection he has there.


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## daffy44 (15 February 2021)

Blimey, I've only just seen this, its traumatic to read, I'm so sorry you are having to live through it.  I think you and your Dad are being heroic, and it seems like your efforts are being rewarded, I do think from everything you are saying that things are looking more positive now, I hope Vinnie continues to improve, lots of healing vibes to all three of you.


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## LadyGascoyne (16 February 2021)

How are you doing today TPO?


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## TPO (16 February 2021)

Reacher said:



			The idea of taking measurements is a good one, makes it easier to be objective.
This is probably a silly question as obviously I’m no vet (and I’ve never had a case of cellulitis), but surely for the ones that don’t heal there must be a reason - eg lack of essential mineral, or wrong antibiotic or something- and can they not do blood tests to find out?
Anyway hope you and your dad are doing ok and hope the adverse weather improves to make life easier for you
		
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In the cases discussed the reasons were "thoroughbred skin". Vinnie is a TB and the specialist works for a racing yard.

I think (that I heard him say) it's because TB skin is so fine it bursts easier and is more damaged by the swelling.

Also just that the lymphatic system is damaged so the swelling never drains away.



SJJR said:



			I have a pair of Cavallo wraps size 4-6 never used happy to post to you if it will help with boot rubbing. I have used woofwear poultice boots to turnout, not very thick sole but just enough protection to stop being sore on rough ground. I have had a pair over heartbar shoes for turnout the past month to stop snow balling up and not worn through yet. Might be an idea if toes/heel bulbs are sore.

You and your Dad will physically and mentally exhausted with what you are going through.
		
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Thank you, that is really very kind. I already have the wraps and for some reason they don't stay put on him. We had cracked it with mens "working" socks but they were too thick with his sores. He ended up wearing thinner cotton socks but they were too thin really.

He was back walking bare in the snow and now we have mud so hopefully a bit kinder on his hooves.



Gloi said:



			Might be expensive,I don't know, but could you take a sample of pus for the vet to send to lab and see what antibiotics are best for the infection he has there.
		
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That was what was going to happen on Friday when they came to tap the tendon sheath. It wasnt 100% but it didnt look like the sheath was infected and to do the tap was too big a risk in case that introduced infection.

My vet said on friday, while we were running through a checklist of my stock, that he was happy with the prescribed medication. The cream appears to be helping a lot too; its steroid & antibacterial.

Thanks again for the replies and well wishes. If anyone is struggling to get their 10k a day steps in I know a big brown lump that would be happy (ish) to provide a reason.

Helps if I press "post reply" 🤦🏼‍♀️ typed this yesterday and then clearly had a brain malfunction


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## TPO (16 February 2021)

LadyGascoyne said:



			How are you doing today TPO?
		
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Not great. Swelling was back up yesterday and today he is very uncomfortable on that leg.

Before you could see he was lame but more unlevel iykwim (obv still lame), today hes lame lame.

Swelling still up but leg is softer and easier to palpate. Not really any hotter.

Picked out the hoof and I cant see anything but it is hard to hold his hoof up for long.

I just dont know. He only had 3 walks today. I dont know what's for the best as obviously movement is the only thing that will get everything moving and draining but also hes probably the sorest hes been aside from the initial onset of it.

Phoning vet tomorrow morning and will see what he advises.

Just feeling a bit despondent tbh


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## LadyGascoyne (16 February 2021)

TPO said:



			Not great. Swelling was back up yesterday and today he is very uncomfortable on that leg.

Before you could see he was lame but more unlevel iykwim (obv still lame), today hes lame lame.

Swelling still up but leg is softer and easier to palpate. Not really any hotter.

Picked out the hoof and I cant see anything but it is hard to hold his hoof up for long.

I just dont know. He only had 3 walks today. I dont know what's for the best as obviously movement is the only thing that will get everything moving and draining but also hes probably the sorest hes been aside from the initial onset of it.

Phoning vet tomorrow morning and will see what he advises.

Just feeling a bit despondent tbh
		
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I can imagine that you’re feeling despondent. You must be exhausted!

Regardless of the outcome of the situation, you and your dad sound like the most dedicated, caring and kind horse owners. You’ve done amazing things just to get him to this point, really.

I hope things look better in the morning.


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## daydreamer (16 February 2021)

TPO said:



			Just feeling a bit despondent tbh
		
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Sorry to read this TPO. I have been following this thread and it sounds like you are having an absolute terrible time of it. You and your dad are doing a great job. Hopefully it is not a backwards step.


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## daffy44 (16 February 2021)

I'm so sorry to read this TPO, I really hope this is a brief hiccup in his progress, nursing a horse like this is utterly exhausting, please try and be kind to yourself as much as possible, and everything crossed that things look better tomorrow.


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## PapaverFollis (16 February 2021)

You must be exhausted TPO.  Now the weather has picked up a bit would a return to hosing it help?


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## TPO (16 February 2021)

PapaverFollis said:



			You must be exhausted TPO.  Now the weather has picked up a bit would a return to hosing it help?
		
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Jes been getting "rinsed" after walks now its muddy again but not cold hosed. I'll ask vet about that tomorrow thanks


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## PictusSweetDreams (17 February 2021)

Hoping for good news from the vet today TPO.


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## Squeak (17 February 2021)

Hope Vinnie is looking better this morning and that you get good news from the vet.


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## misst (17 February 2021)

keeping everything crossed that you have better news today x


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## Gingerwitch (17 February 2021)

misst said:



			keeping everything crossed that you have better news today x
		
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And me xx


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## brighteyes (17 February 2021)

*is worried*


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## Ambers Echo (17 February 2021)

So sorry to hear there's been a setback. Sending a bucket load of healing vibes your way. Xx


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## Michen (17 February 2021)

S***, really hope next update is positive. X


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## Pinkvboots (17 February 2021)

You have all been through so much I am keeping everything crossed for you x

Was thinking if his soles are sore maybe some hoof amour would help it's really easy to apply.


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## Baywonder (18 February 2021)

How are you getting on @TPO?  

Everything crossed for a positive update X


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## ycbm (18 February 2021)

You're being put through the mill TPO, I'm sorry you didn't have better news yesterday.  Hoping it's just a blip.


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## Surbie (18 February 2021)

misst said:



			keeping everything crossed that you have better news today x
		
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here too xx


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## TPO (18 February 2021)

Thanks for asking after him.

I think I'm going to lay off this thread until I have either a definite yay or nay.

It feels like wverytimenthere is a glimmer of hope it ends up crashing back down and it's pretty exhausting.

D Day for a decision is 8 March, vet has given him the extra week because he wants to give V every possible chance.

Obviously if things spectacularly nose dive he'll be out asap.

So until then just need to keep on keeping on.

I have received excellent service from Woof Wear, Whinnies silver sox, A2B equestrian  and Immunall who all went above and beyond to help with my plight. Whinnies sent me extra resources, a2b spoke to the vet involved with the creation of a healing product about V and every company dispatched the products immediately. WW arrived next day and the two from Sweden/Netherlands arrived in 3 days. Unfortunately the sox arent going to be suitable with the leg in it's current condition but everything crossed immunall gives V a much needed boost.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the good wishes.

I'll let you all know on the 8th, or sooner, how things have ended.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (18 February 2021)

You take care of yourself TPO, xx


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## cobgoblin (18 February 2021)

All the best luck to you and Vinnie xx


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## Pearlsasinger (18 February 2021)

I think you have come to a wise decision.  You are under enough pressure from the situation without having to keep HHO updated ever day.  Sending loads of vibes


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## twiggy2 (18 February 2021)

I have been catching up on this whilst night lambing, I haven't commented as I just don't know what to say.
I have been in similar situations over the years with horses (and dogs) when recovery does not go smoothly but the time and effort of providing the best of care is exhausting and all consuming. 
I really wish V a successful recovery and that life for all of you begins to head towards a more normal pattern very soon.


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## PapaverFollis (18 February 2021)

❤ take care.


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## southerncomfort (18 February 2021)

Will be thinking of you.

Look after yourself.  Xx


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## chaps89 (18 February 2021)

Completely understand, really hope he pulls through but you really couldn't be doing any more so best of luck


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## brighteyes (18 February 2021)

I think that is totally understandable and I wish I could do more. Sending everything I can in the way of good wishes for the outcome you all deserve. Take care xxx


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## ycbm (18 February 2021)

However it goes,  take care of yourself TPO.


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## Baywonder (18 February 2021)

Completely understandable.  You have enough on your plate at the minute, and taking a step back will give you a bit of breathing space.

All the best TPO.  Everything is still crossed for Vinnie - and please look after yourself. X


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## misst (18 February 2021)

Will wait to hear but thinking of you and superdad and V xxx


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## Surbie (18 February 2021)

All the very best to V, Superdad and to you - I hope you all get some space to breathe/sleep/heal. Will keep sending vibes up north. xx


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## OldNag (18 February 2021)

Wishing you the best healing vibes for Vinnie x


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## Red-1 (19 February 2021)

Will be wishing you all the luck in the world. X


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## poiuytrewq (19 February 2021)

If only sheer grit, determination and perseverance could save a horse. 
I was going to mention silver Whinney, purely because they were the only thing to help my old horses vasculitis one year when it was really bad. 
I see above it’s already been suggested and discounted though due to time  
I have everything crossed still for you both xx


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## poiuytrewq (19 February 2021)

Actually, @TPO  If postage time wasn’t an issue do you think Silver Whinneys may have helped?
I’ve got 1! Just the one sadly I don’t think it’s ever been used but Is tack room dusty.


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## poiuytrewq (19 February 2021)

TPO said:



			Thanks for asking after him.

I think I'm going to lay off this thread until I have either a definite yay or nay.

It feels like wverytimenthere is a glimmer of hope it ends up crashing back down and it's pretty exhausting.

D Day for a decision is 8 March, vet has given him the extra week because he wants to give V every possible chance.

Obviously if things spectacularly nose dive he'll be out asap.

So until then just need to keep on keeping on.

I have received excellent service from Woof Wear, Whinnies silver sox, A2B equestrian  and Immunall who all went above and beyond to help with my plight. Whinnies sent me extra resources, a2b spoke to the vet involved with the creation of a healing product about V and every company dispatched the products immediately. WW arrived next day and the two from Sweden/Netherlands arrived in 3 days. Unfortunately the sox arent going to be suitable with the leg in it's current condition but everything crossed immunall gives V a much needed boost.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the good wishes.

I'll let you all know on the 8th, or sooner, how things have ended.
		
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Ah sorry I missed this


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## DressageCob (19 February 2021)

I understand the need to back away from this thread for now. Best wishes to Vinnie and I hope he turns a corner. Very impressed with the service you got from those companies. Great to hear. hope some of it makes a difference at least.


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## Pinkvboots (19 February 2021)

Take care and I will keep everything crossed for you x


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## TPO (22 February 2021)

Thank you very much for all of the nice messages, suggestions and support.

Sadly we had a bad weekend. The lameness wasnt walking off on saturday and the swelling back up the leg into the hock in Sunday along with a burning  heat.

I called vet out this morning and he found the same thing. He noticed straight away how more swollen the leg was and that Vinnie had seriously altered his gait to compensate.

So sadly we havent made it to 8 March and Vinnie was pts earlier this morning.

I genuinely am so thankful for all of the replies on here as I had no clue what the initial swelling on his gaskin was and this was my first (& hopefully last) case of cellulitis.

As I said woof wear and A2B Equestrian provided excellent service. The sox arrived in 2 days and Kim from Whinneys called to talk everything through, offer advice and referred his case to their specialists in Florida. Immunall arrived from the Netherlands in 3 days too. I really appreciated the prompt action from all of these companies because it let me try everything and throw everything at him to try to help.

I can't thank my vet enough. He went above and beyond on several occasions and done everything that he could to give Vinnie every chance possible.

Special thanks to Milliepops who has held my hand through every step of this and has been a massive supportive help despite having her own stuff going on. Thank you, I really appreciate it.

Starting to turn into an Oscar's speech now 😬 just thanks, I'm totally devastated and superdad is in pieces and thinks it's his fault for not doing more walks at the start and of course it isnt. I feel so guilty because I didnt notice until 10am on the first Monday. Its minutes not hours with these things and I missed it making it ultimately too late and his lymphatics were too damaged to recover.

This was supposed to be a one sentence post 🙄 sorry I dont have a happy ending and thanks again for all of the support and good wishes.

💔


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## milliepops (22 February 2021)

xxxxxx so sorry it wasn't a happy ending  you and superdad sure deserved one, so sad.


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## CanteringCarrot (22 February 2021)

So sorry it ended this way. You and Superdad provided a great amount of support and care to try to get him through this. Your dedication was commendable. So don't you or Superdad think otherwise!


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## cobgoblin (22 February 2021)

I'm so, so sorry... You and your dad did everything possible.


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## HelenBack (22 February 2021)

I'm not a very active poster on here and haven't commented at all so far but I just wanted to say how terribly sorry I am to hear this. You tried so hard for him and really couldn't have done more. I can only imagine how devastated you and your Dad must be and I hope that in time you can both start to come to terms with this. Please both of you try not to feel guilty as you have gone above and beyond for Vinnie. Big hugs from me xx


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## HufflyPuffly (22 February 2021)

So sorry it wasn't a happy outcome, you guys did everything and more xx


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## The Fuzzy Furry (22 February 2021)

I'm so bloody sorry to read this TPO, you went far beyond what many would have done,  sending hugs xx


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## QueenBella (22 February 2021)

Oh TPO I am so sorry to hear about this, you and your dad did everything ye possibly could do for him. Please don't feel guilty. I truly am so sorry, sending hugs xx


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## Lindylouanne (22 February 2021)

So sorry TPO. Virtual hugs to both you and your wonderful dad.


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## cauda equina (22 February 2021)

So sorry; sometimes horses just can't be fixed
You and Superdad have nothing at all to feel guilty about; it's time to look after yourselves now 
xxx


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## ponyparty (22 February 2021)

So sorry to hear this TPO. You absolutely did everything you could, he was a lucky boy to have such dedicated owners. It's human nature to question ourselves but please - don't, on this occasion! Sending love xx


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## Tiddlypom (22 February 2021)

So sorry, TPO.

If ever a happy ending was deserved through effort and commitment, it was for all of you, and Vinnie.


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## PapaverFollis (22 February 2021)

I'm so sorry TPO.  Utterly heartbreaking. You and Superdad really went above and beyond for him. I'm just so sorry it didn't pay off for you all in the end.  Run free lovely Vinnie. x

Take care and rest for you and Superdad now. x


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## OrangeAndLemon (22 February 2021)

I am so utterly sorry, you did absolutely everything possible and gave him every chance. He couldn't have asked for better and you should be so proud of the support and love you gave him. 

Your hard work deserved a better outcome but he is out of pain and was never in any doubt of how much loved he was.


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## meleeka (22 February 2021)

So sorry it wasn’t a happy ending but nobody could accuse you or your dad of not doing enough.  Look after yourself x


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## Marnie (22 February 2021)

I'm so sorry to hear this and others said, you all did as much as you possibly could to give him every chance. Thinking of you all x


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## ester (22 February 2021)

So sorry. x


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## southerncomfort (22 February 2021)

I'm so sorry.

Their is honestly nothing more you and your dad could have done.  You've both gone above and beyond throughout. 

You've been so kind and helpful to me and others on many occasions, I wish I could think of something to say that could make this less painful.

Thinking of you and your parents. X


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## Clodagh (22 February 2021)

Oh my I have been following your amazing endeavours here and I'm so sorry to hear that.
You did abnove and beyond anything that was possible. x


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## ihatework (22 February 2021)

Oh that’s heartbreaking. I’m so sorry TPO x x


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (22 February 2021)

I'm so sorry TPO, you and superdad did everything humanly possible to help and you have absolutely nothing to regret or feel guilty about. 
Look after yourselves both of you, and rest peacefully Vinnie x


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## chaps89 (22 February 2021)

I'm so sorry to hear this. Please don't feel guilty, it honestly doesn't sound like you could have done anything more, he was very lucky to have you and Superdad nursing him through, I'm just sad for you that it didn't have a better outcome.


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## OldNag (22 February 2021)

I am so, so sorry, You all couldn't have done any more than you did. Vinnie was very clearly a very much loved horse. xx


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## HobleytheTB (22 February 2021)

I'm so sorry to hear this news 🙁 I've followed since the beginning and really hoped for a better outcome. You really couldn't have done anymore, unfortunately sometimes we just can't fix them, no matter how much we try.


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## LeneHorse (22 February 2021)

Sorry to see this sad update. Rest in peace Vinnie.


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## Fluffypiglet (22 February 2021)

Sorry to hear this news, you (and everyone involved) clearly did your best. RIP Vinnie x


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## Rowreach (22 February 2021)

Oh I am so so sorry xxx


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## Mule (22 February 2021)

I've just seen this thread now. I'm so sorry.
Vinnie sounds like he was very well loved. I also lost one to cellulitis. It's a horrible thing xxx ❤


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## DressageCob (22 February 2021)

Such a sad update. I'm sorry for your loss and my heart breaks for your poor super dad.


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## ownedbyaconnie (22 February 2021)

So sorry to hear this news, was really hoping for a good outcome.  You and superdad can certainly rest easy knowing you did everything possible to give him his best chance.  That was an intense, long, grueling rehab process and you really gave it your best.

A small silver lining is that Vinnie will have gone knowing just how much he was loved, the last few weeks certainly prove that.


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## Baywonder (22 February 2021)

Oh I am so, so sorry @TPO  - this was not the outcome anyone wanted.  

You and your wonderful dad have done everything possible (and then some) to get Vinnie through this, but it just wasn't to be. You truly could not have done any more. X


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## LadyGascoyne (22 February 2021)

How utterly heartbreaking for you and your family.

Your dedication was exceptional and inspiring, and your horses are lucky to have people like you in their lives.

Take care of yourself TPO, and of superdad too.


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## Pearlsasinger (22 February 2021)

I am so sorry.  You and your Dad did as much as was humanly possible  and over a prolonged period of time.  Neither of you could possibly have done any more, sometimes it just isn't possible to save them.  When you have spent so long willing them to get better and putting in so much physical effort, it can be very difficult to let go of the emotional investment.  You and Superdad now need to take care of yourselves.


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## AandK (22 February 2021)

LadyGascoyne said:



			How utterly heartbreaking for you and your family.

Your dedication was exceptional and inspiring, and your horses are lucky to have people like you in their lives.

Take care of yourself TPO, and of superdad too.
		
Click to expand...

As above, I am so very sorry to read the last update, heartbreaking.


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## SEL (22 February 2021)

oh I am so sad to see this update. You and your super, super dad went above and beyond to try and get Vinnie well and I'm devastated for you that it didn't work out. It isn't fair as it so often isn't with these wonderful horses of ours.

Sending you tonnes of hugs xx


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## windand rain (22 February 2021)

So sorry the read this was hoping against hope for a good outcome. RIP Vinny beautiful boy. You and Dad did everything and more you could so lookafter yourselves and each other now


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## Meowy Catkin (22 February 2021)

I'm so sorry for your loss. 

RIP Vinnie.


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## Squeak (22 February 2021)

So sorry to hear this, you and your dad put in such a huge and inspirational effort.


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## tda (22 February 2021)

You did all you could and more,  sometimes it's just not meant to be.
Thinking of you all xx


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## daffy44 (22 February 2021)

I'm so, so sorry, utterly heartbreaking for you and Superdad, you both did absolutely everything and more for Vinnie, he was lucky to be so loved, just tragic not to get the positive outcome all three of you deserved xx


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## Amymay (22 February 2021)

Absolutely gutted for you all TPO 💕


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## Surbie (22 February 2021)

I'm so sorry TPO. You and Superdad were awesome. Vinnie was a lucky boy to have you and it is heartbreaking that he couldn't come right. 

Hope you are all have space to grieve and rest. xx


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## DabDab (22 February 2021)

So sorry, hugs to you and your family X X


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## outdoor girl (22 February 2021)

So sorry to read this.  Huge hugs to you all.  xx


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## Britestar (22 February 2021)

So sorry to hear this, you did everything you could.


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## ycbm (22 February 2021)

TPO the measures you and your family went through to try to save Vinnie were awesome.  I'm so sorry it didn't have a better outcome for you all.
.


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## Rumtytum (22 February 2021)

So sorry TPO for you and your wonderful Superdad. No lengths not taken, no effort not used, you tried everything and as soon as the end was inevitable you did right for your beautiful boy. Hugs to you all.


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## brighteyes (22 February 2021)

I would like to add my condolences and heartfelt sadness for your loss. Your efforts were truly heroic and none of you deserve this outcome. Huge hugs x


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## Ambers Echo (22 February 2021)

You and your dad did everything humanly possible to save him. You gave him absolutely every chance. If love, commitment and determination could save a horse, he'd have come through this but sadly life just isn't fair. So, so sorry. x


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## Gloi (22 February 2021)

So sorry it turned out this way. You did everything you could. Hugs xx


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## Errin Paddywack (22 February 2021)

I am so very sorry to hear this, if hard work and perseverance got their just rewards Vinnie would have come through this.  Such a sad outcome after all your dedication.


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## Peregrine Falcon (22 February 2021)

Please don't feel guilty. The dedication, commitment and love that you have all shown for him has been evident. Sleep peacefully Vinnie.


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## misst (22 February 2021)

What a rotten outcome for you all. Vinnie is obviously at peace now but I feel sad for you and superdad who have put in such a herculian effort for this outcome. But at least you know you tried everything. I am so so sorry.
That is a lovely photo xxxx RIP Vinnie - you were loved x


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## PictusSweetDreams (22 February 2021)

Absolutely heartbroken for you TPO. sending lots of hugs x


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## Upthecreek (22 February 2021)

So sorry. You did all you could and then some xx


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## oldie48 (22 February 2021)

So sorry it wasn't the ending we all wanted for Vinnie, just sending a hug. Look after yourself and Superdad.


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## Jeni the dragon (22 February 2021)

I'm so, so sorry TPO. Huge hugs to you all.
RiP Vinnie


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## HeyMich (22 February 2021)

Really sorry to read the sad outcome. He was very lucky to have you and your family caring for him, you honestly did everything you could. It just sadly wasn't a fight you were allowed to win.


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## Michen (22 February 2021)

Really bloody sorry. You couldn’t have done more. X


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## M1lbie (22 February 2021)

I don’t post on here very often but have been following this and am so sorry to hear your sad news, you and your dad did so much for Vinnie I was sure there would be a happier outcome. You couldn’t have done more xx


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## ExRacers (22 February 2021)

I’m so sorry to hear this. No one could have done more than you and your family. RIP Vinnie. Take care x


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## palo1 (22 February 2021)

So gutted for all of you @TPO.  You did everything that you possibly could have done to help Vinnie as did your dad.  He was such a lucky horse to have you both and that level of care and attention to detail.  Life really isn't fair.  So sorry.


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## alibali (22 February 2021)

Very sorry to read this TPO. No one could have tried harder than you and Superdad for Vinnie. Sadly sometimes your best just isn't enough. Be kind to yourselves


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## Gingerwitch (22 February 2021)

You did what everyone would have done. You did not leave it til monday, or the next week. So stop beating yourself up ! Huge hugs to super dad too.
Alot would not have tried.
You did.
Hugs xxxxxxx


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## SusieT (22 February 2021)

sorry to hear this after you tried so hard. The fact the lameness was worsening was a very bad sign, and you made the only decision you could.


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## Northern Hare (22 February 2021)

I'm so, so sorry to read your sad news. 😟 He was a lovely horse and the lengths you and your family have been to have been amazing.


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## Apercrumbie (22 February 2021)

I'm so sorry TPO. I think it's fair to say that you and your amazing Dad did so much more than the vast majority ever could. You gave him the best chance of making it, but sadly what we do isn't always enough. I'm sure you are both devastated but please don't blame yourselves - there was clearly no more that could be done. Take care of yourselves.


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## On the Hoof (22 February 2021)

I am devastated for you. You went above and beyond for Vinnie - RIP handsome boy .


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## Lurfy (23 February 2021)

RIP Vinnie, so sorry for your loss TPO. He is free of pain now and you all did your best for him. No horse could have asked for more.


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## Red-1 (23 February 2021)

I am so sorry to hear that Vinnie lost his battle. Do not feel any guilt, you did everything possible. Superdad is amazing, what a blessing in yours and Vinnie's life. In the end, you made the brave decision, which is a blessing to the horse. Be easy with yourself. X


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## twiggy2 (23 February 2021)

So sorry to hear this update.
You and superdad be kind to each other, it can be so emotionally as well as physically draining trying to bring horses through this sort of thing and don't beat yourselves up luck has so much to do with how things work out.


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## scats (23 February 2021)

I was so sorry to hear this update.  You have nothing to feel guilty about xxx


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## poiuytrewq (23 February 2021)

So so sad for you. The complete and utter unfairness of the whole thing.
The dedication and love you both gave was inspiring.


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## Scarlett (23 February 2021)

I'm so, so sorry to hear the news. Absolutely awful. Gallop free Vinnie


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## TPO (23 February 2021)

Thank you for all of the nice replies and PMs. I have to steel myself to read a handful at a time then return to like them all. Just a big soggy mess and completely devastated.

It doesnt feel like only 5wks. Making my bed out of hay bales and rugs in the freezing cold during the middle of the night feels like an eternity ago.

The weather is absolutely horrendous today so I'm glad V isnt being forced to walk out in it. One small mercy at least

It's just not fair for him that it was him and that he had to be the 1 in 100 that doesn't recover.

Thank you again for all of the kindness and support that you have given me (& SuperDad) as well as all of the offers to help, recommendations and to send things to try to help V out. I'm sorry that it was all in vain 😥


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## turkana (23 February 2021)

TPO said:



			Thank you for all of the nice replies and PMs. I have to steel myself to read a handful at a time then return to like them all. Just a big soggy mess and completely devastated.

It doesnt feel like only 5wks. Making my bed out of hay bales and rugs in the freezing cold during the middle of the night feels like an eternity ago.

The weather is absolutely horrendous today so I'm glad V isnt being forced to walk out in it. One small mercy at least

It's just not fair for him that it was him and that he had to be the 1 in 100 that doesn't recover.

Thank you again for all of the kindness and support that you have given me (& SuperDad) as well as all of the offers to help, recommendations and to send things to try to help V out. I'm sorry that it was all in vain 😥
		
Click to expand...

I have been following without adding anything as you were getting so much fanastic support, so sorry it didn't end well - how awful for you but you gave him love, and you gave him excellent care, then at the end you gave him peace; he was a beautiful boy.


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## Pinkvboots (23 February 2021)

I am so so sorry you have all been through so much but you did everything you possibly could, it's just so sad it wasn't a better outcome big hug from me xx


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## RHM (23 February 2021)

Absolutely gutted for you. If love could have saved him he would have lived forever. You went above and beyond for the little guy. He will have known that. Thinking of you and super dad x


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## Rosemary28 (23 February 2021)

So sorry TPO  thinking of you x


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## Reacher (25 February 2021)

Only just seen this - so sorry you didn't get the outcome you all deserve. Take care all of you.


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## crazyandme (25 February 2021)

With everyone else, you did all that you could for him! So sorry


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