# Dangerous dogs: uncontrollable harm



## Sixteen Hands (16 January 2012)

A slightly different perspective on the problem...

See: http://cubikmail.co.uk/LF4-NMNK-3ABICH-90MBU-1/c.aspx


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## Alec Swan (17 January 2012)

One question,  if you look at the photograph of the dog,  certainly his lower canine teeth are missing,  as are his uppers,  I suspect.  I wonder why.

Alec.


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## dressagelove (17 January 2012)

Do u know what though, not sure if I am missing the point of the article, but there are dogs out there that AREN'T dangerous, but still attack postmen! 

Are they insinuating they are all dangerous dogs??


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## Ranyhyn (17 January 2012)

It's the owners who are dangerous, not the dogs.


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## SonnysHumanSlave (17 January 2012)

BoolavogueDC said:



			It's the owners who are dangerous, not the dogs.
		
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I thought this until a very well respected dog trainer was on the radio the other day discussing this.  she said she had a dog, who was lovely but turned aggressive very quickly.  In the end he was put down and they found he had a brain tumour. 

although most of the time people cant be bothered to train their dogs. Sad really


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## Dolcé (19 January 2012)

We have always been very careful with our dogs and any visitors but especially the postman.  Murphy, a mastiff x and a very big dog, is lovely, very friendly and has never been known to turn on anyone.  I always thought our postman was a bit soft as, despite the fact we made sure the dogs were never out when we weren't out with them, he was still nervous coming up to the house because the dogs would bark through the window at him.  I was interviewing a postman for work one day and we got talking about dogs, he told me about one of his colleagues.  This man had delivered to this house every day for years, every morning he spoke to and stroked the dog when he went in, the dog was friendly with him.  One morning he went as usual and the dog attacked him for absolutely no reason, he was left very badly injured and can no longer work due to both physical and psychological injuries.  That story changed my way of thinking totally, we now have locked gates with a post box in the gate, the postman knows if the gates are open then it is safe to come to the house if he needs to (parcels etc) and we make sure the dogs cannot get to the door when we open it to anyone.  I work visiting houses and have been bitten several times, fortunately not badly.  I don't hold it against the dog because they are protecting their territory but I do think that many owners need to be more responsible.


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## Spudlet (19 January 2012)

I <3 My Teddi said:



			I thought this until a very well respected dog trainer was on the radio the other day discussing this.  she said she had a dog, who was lovely but turned aggressive very quickly.  In the end he was put down and they found he had a brain tumour.
		
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I know the lady well - it was a very difficult time for her when she lost her boy and definitely not due to a lack of training or understanding of dog behaviour on her part. Illness is certainly a possibility where dogs change their personality suddenly, as in this case.


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## Ranyhyn (19 January 2012)

I <3 My Teddi said:



			I thought this until a very well respected dog trainer was on the radio the other day discussing this.  she said she had a dog, who was lovely but turned aggressive very quickly.  In the end he was put down and they found he had a brain tumour. 

although most of the time people cant be bothered to train their dogs. Sad really
		
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Sad story but doesn't really apply in the sense of posties though does it??  Just don't give your dog access to the front garden tumour or no tumour no matter who you are.   Safe dog - safe postman.


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## Paddydou (19 January 2012)

Actually mine turned nasty after they were attacked by a postman. It has taken years to stop them attacking others in bright jackets because they go on the defensive. Postie arrived, one of them barked (in a non agressive way) he marched up and kicked her so hard I saw her at least 3 foot from the floor. She was very bruised and shocked and that is what turned them.

The dog he kicked was used for some years as a therapy dog for people with learning disabilities and was as agressive as a slug in cider before this. She is still very gentle but does get very worried about people coming to the house that she doesn't know now.

I have my mail delivered to a box at the end of the drive instead of the house. Safer for my dogs who I do not want to bite anyone and safer for the postie too.


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## Tinseltoes (20 January 2012)

Any dog can be dangerous. JR terriers are horrble.Any dog can turn on strangers. PB terriers are not nasty,each dog is different,blame is humans giving them a lousy name.Ive met some nasty JR terriers as well as nasty border collies.No dog is perfect.


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## Tormenta (20 January 2012)

It's your responsibility as an owner to ensure that anyone visiting your property is safe from your pets IMO, not only to avoid any incidents but for your own dog's safety and reputation too.  I always take my dogs inside or I go to the gate if the Postman is on his round, if I am not here the dogs are always shut in the house. My dogs would probably boing about and try to lick the Postman but even boisterous behaviour can be misconstrued, I would be too worried to take any risks especially owning three bull breeds.


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## Ranyhyn (20 January 2012)

Tinseltoes said:



			. JR terriers are horrble.
		
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That's a silly thing to say, not all JRT's are "horrible".


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## Tinseltoes (20 January 2012)

BoolavogueDC said:



			That's a silly thing to say, not all JRT's are "horrible".
		
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Well majority of  the ones ive come across are nasty.Theres a few around here that need muzzling.Ive been bitten by one.


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## Ranyhyn (20 January 2012)

I've been bitten by a rottweiler, they aren't horrible either   you go on to say "each dog is different" so maybe you should consider that yourself


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## ChesnutsRoasting (20 January 2012)

Tinseltoes said:



			Any dog can be dangerous. JR terriers are horrble.Any dog can turn on strangers. PB terriers are not nasty,each dog is different,blame is humans giving them a lousy name.Ive met some nasty JR terriers as well as nasty border collies.No dog is perfect.
		
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Aggressiveness is atypical in all breeds of dog.


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## Onyxia (22 January 2012)

Tormenta said:



			It's your responsibility as an owner to ensure that anyone visiting your property is safe from your pets
		
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End of the discussion really 

there are plenty of nice,well behaved dogs that go bananas at the postie, if yours is one put a cage on the letter box or board it up and put an alternative external box up.


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## Shantara (22 January 2012)

I always thought dogs being nasty with postmen was just a comedy thing only seen in cartoons! I had no idea it was an actual problem :O :O
My doggie loves anyone who comes to the house! She's such a softy.


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## Ibblebibble (22 January 2012)

Tinseltoes said:



			Any dog can be dangerous. JR terriers are horrble.Any dog can turn on strangers. PB terriers are not nasty,each dog is different,blame is humans giving them a lousy name.Ive met some nasty JR terriers as well as nasty border collies.No dog is perfect.
		
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ever heard the saying 'blame the deed, not the breed' ?!


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## Tinseltoes (22 January 2012)

Ibblebibble said:



			ever heard the saying 'blame the deed, not the breed' ?!
		
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True,but Its beyond a joke when the owners know their dog is nasty and REFUSE to muzzle it,makes me cheesed off. Theres a couple in particular that are really nasty.Owners dont care one bit.
Give me  a rottie or german shepherd any day.Just not keen on JRT and thats my choice.
People moan about pittbulls theyre not dangerous,its the owners.
I know THAT any dog can be nasty.


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## Trakehner (9 February 2012)

blazingsaddles said:



			Aggressiveness is atypical in all breeds of dog.
		
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Nope, not true at all.  Some breeds of dog, due to their "jobs", are very aggressive and not good with people.

Kuvasv
Cane Corso
Komondor
Ill-bred Malamute
Pit Bull (it's not always due to scummy owners causing their attacks)

I've a neighbor with a Kuvasv, he's Hungarian and wanted a "bit of home" breed.  Scary dog, meant to be in the mountains with sheep, taking care of business by himself.

Sometimes it is the dog's breed.


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## bubbilygum (9 February 2012)

Trakehner said:



			Nope, not true at all.  Some breeds of dog, due to their "jobs", are very aggressive and not good with people.

Kuvasv
Cane Corso
Komondor
Ill-bred Malamute
Pit Bull (it's not always due to scummy owners causing their attacks)
		
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I read somewhere that Pit Bulls are excellent with people and were once known as "Nanny Dogs" due to them being so good with children..?


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## Roisin_M (9 February 2012)

I take great exception with the 'JR Terriers are horrible' comment, thats the most absurd thing i've ever heard. Unless you have personally met every single jack russell terrier then you are just making a sweeping generalization. 

Infact jack russells are friendly, and intelligent and incredibly loyal, I have one myself and he's the sweetest dog you've ever met! Great with other dogs, my horses, young children and livestock. 

As is said before bad owners make bad dogs, if you don't take the time to train your dog be it a rottweilier or a bichon frise there is the possibility it will be vicious. The are also huge factors such as sex, age and exercise that will effect a dogs predisposition to be vicious.

The postman thing is obviously a problem, and although my dogs do bark when the postman is outside, i do not allow them to run out to him and have situated the postbox in a place where he doesnt need to come onto the property. I think all dogs are territorial to an extent, that isnt a bad thing as they feel they are protecting us and their home but you must take precautions to stop them attacking a bloke who is just doing his job!


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## Katikins (9 February 2012)

I may be shot down in flames here and my point may actually be used against me but I'll plough on anyway.

I read somewhere (unfortunately can't remember where now) and it makes sense to me, that biologically terriers are the most aggressive of breeds due to what they were originally bred to do.  Now I am a HUGE believer that (baring medical problems) aggression in dogs is created by the owners/humans in the majority of cases, and I have never ever known a nasty JRT (more likely to lick you to death than bite) but if you think about how they were bred for ratting etc, they need their aggression to get in there for the quick kill.  BUT, even a dog bred for aggression in this sense (or even in the dog fighting sense) doesn't necessarily translate to human aggression.  How many times do you hear of dog aggressive dogs being totally fine with people.

OK, I've totally rambled here and not sure I got my point across.  Basically, just because a breed has had a certain type of aggression bred into it, doesn't mean it's more likely to be human aggressive.

Also, back on the topic of posties... if you have a dog, it's your responsibility to ensure that anyone coming to or into your house is safe.  Your dog, your responsibility!


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## georgie0 (9 February 2012)

bubbilygum said:



			I read somewhere that Pit Bulls are excellent with people and were once known as "Nanny Dogs" due to them being so good with children..?
		
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That's Staffordshire bull terriers, not pit bulls.


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## Ranyhyn (9 February 2012)

You are correct about the breed traits of terriers, however before they were selectively bred, they were man's friend too.  

And Cane Corsos are NOT aggressive to humans! Look at the size ratio here, Tito (RIP big man) was gentle and kind.  When will people realise, any thing is a weapon in evil hands.


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## bubbilygum (9 February 2012)

georgie0 said:



			That's Staffordshire bull terriers, not pit bulls.
		
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I've read the same thing about Pit Bulls! Also I have read that pit bulls are bred to NOT be human aggressive, its counter productive to have a human aggressive fighting dog, as you need to be able to break them apart without getting attacked yourself.


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## Ranyhyn (9 February 2012)

Interestingly for all their selective breeding, if you look at the scientific facts around APBT, Rottweilers have a stronger bite force pound for pound.

Why aren't *they* on the DDL?  Reason - The DDA/L is a farce.


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## jinglejoys (10 February 2012)

Personally I find dogs are in more danger than the postman who  usually kicks first and asks questions after then wonder why they  get bitten.The local camp breeds Akitas and  the police won't go near they are more afraid of them than Irish Staffies (Pit bulls  )
 The only dog I have ever been atacked by was a boxer!


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## orionstar (10 February 2012)

Any article that has to photoshop teeth onto a dog is extremely unreliable in my oppinion! People make dogs that attack other people!


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## Hollycatt (11 February 2012)

Trakehner said:



			Nope, not true at all.  Some breeds of dog, due to their "jobs", are very aggressive and not good with people.

Kuvasv
Cane Corso
Komondor
Ill-bred Malamute
Pit Bull (it's not always due to scummy owners causing their attacks)

I've a neighbor with a Kuvasv, he's Hungarian and wanted a "bit of home" breed.  Scary dog, meant to be in the mountains with sheep, taking care of business by himself.

Sometimes it is the dog's breed.
		
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I have to disagree with this!  I live in Hungary and am a vet student so I do handle Kuvasz, Komondors and pit bulls regularly - including fighting dogs  

All Komondor and Kuvasz are not 'very aggressive'.  The ones I have handled have been just fine.  A yard I used to go to had a large uncastrated male Kuvasz who was great with strangers as this was the way he was brought up. He was very well socialised with people, and was used to seeing them coming and going through the yard constantly.  In the surgery they are fine to treat; rarely growl or make a fuss and need to be muzzled.  Not all over you to say hello but not aggressive either.

The pit bulls, bandogs etc tend to be very good with people.  Including the ones terribly abused and used as fighting dogs.  The pit bulls I know that come in for regular treatment are often overjoyed to see me even though the proceedures may be painful. They just seem to like people.  And we do have problems with dog fights here - if you see tyres hanging from trees in some areas of Budapest this is not for kids swings - they are to train the fighting dogs.  Even abused like this then rescued, these pit bulls can be gentle though I have only seen one or two of the real fighters, so not a representative sample. The rest are pets 

I wold also say that at least owners of large potentially aggressive dogs are sensible and will muzzle them.  I have only (touch wood) been bitten twice so far - by a lab and a bichon. Funnily enough the lab bit me after her muzzle had been taken off when the bill was being paid. She looked at me and just quietly closed her mouth gently round my leg - not hard but just to let me know what she thought of me


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## zaminda (11 February 2012)

I worked for Royal Mail, and never came across any pstie who kicked a dog, probably because they have to go back there every day! Often dogs come flying at you, and the majority are friendly, but if you don't know them, or they are big dogs, it can be quite unnerving. I think its the bag which does it most of the time. However, I'd use a box outside rather than one of those wretched containers behind the letterbox. If you don't understand why, stand outside and try and post something through!


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## Technique (11 February 2012)

I have a JRTxLakeland who looks like butter wouldn't melt. She has been brought up with the same care, individual attention and boundaries as my other (impeccably behaved) dogs, however she has to be muzzled when out in public and is rarely off the lead unless we are in an isolated spot (then still muzzled). She is very loving and very loyal, but nervous of anything strange - and over protective, with a huge prey drive. Attack is her first form of defense to ANY strange dog/child/plastic bag/ hat wearer/thing with wheels!

Her bite wouldn't do much damage, but she could put a child off dogs for life. So I do consider her dangerous in that respect and have done everything I can to avoid such a confrontation. 

What irritates me is when I see other dog owners giving me that look that says "can't you do anything with that dog?" Frankly, no - she has been cajoled, reasoned with, punished, sprayed, borstalled, all with minimal effect. If she was bigger, I would consider having her pts as she would be a nightmare to control, but she is a great companion and very loving with the family. 

I guess my point is, if you have a dog with the potential to be dangerous, it is up to you as a responsible owner to manage that dog and take steps to eliminate the risk of harm to others.

Mind you, it did give me a certain sense of satisfaction the other day when I met my recently retired vet of over 30 years. He has just got himself a lurcher cross dog and she is the same as Jess. He told me that in all his years as a vet, when owners came to him that couldn't do anything with their dog, he secretly thought it was down to the way they handled it. After all this time, he has had to re-evaluate his positon, as he cannot do a thing with his and reckons it can only be down to nature rather than nurture!


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## RainbowDash (15 February 2012)

My dad was a postie up until he retired - (used to let my boy out as a pup and give him is dinner) - whilst still in his uniform.  Having been around dogs all his life he was still cautious around strange dogs and bitten one time by a Westie.

His office actually handed out dog biscuits to posties to take on their walks in case of canine emergencies.

I have two big stupid black Labradors who adore posties - having written that above you can probably guess why...?


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## SpruceRI (15 February 2012)

ShrikeThelwell said:



			His office actually handed out dog biscuits to posties to take on their walks in case of canine emergencies.
		
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Interestingly I take horsey biscuits with me when I ride, solely as a protection against dog hazards of which there are 3 sets just down my own lane!

Chuck a bikkie at them and it often stops them in their tracks!

I've been a temporary Postie at times and can vouch for the fact that you NEVER use your fingers to push mail through unwieldy letterboxes!  Or else you may lose them!

You use another piece of post as a 'ram' or you leave the mail half hanging out the letterbox no matter what the 'rules' say.  As the 'rules' can't replace your fingers when the dog the other side of the door has quietly bitten them off!

By some luck, I still have all my fingers!


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## pip6 (17 February 2012)

Like the biscuit idea. My bug bear is people who ride out with their dogs, & the dogs are totally out of control & of course the rider is in no position to do anything about it (just scream at them ineffectually). The guy from the neighbouring farm used to ride out with his 5 dogs who were an absolute nightmare, always going after my young mare. If the dogs are under control, fine, but all to often they aren't. Twice my girl has been attacked by dogs whilst I have been riding her (one got her down in a ditch with me still on top, the second i'd got off to reposition the saddle & the dogs attacked her whilst I was remounting, the man of the couple said they should apologise, the woman said no, that's what dogs do), both times GS incidentally, so my girl will kick dogs now if they get close to her.

Whenever I encounter a dog who is a problem, they start to come up behind I very nicely ask for them to be controlled. You always get the responses of 'don't worry, he wont hurt you', 'he's only playing', or just get blanked. My reply is if your dog gets close my horse will kick him, she wears metal shoes with road nails so there is a very good chance your dog will be fatally injured, it's not my horse that will get hurt, & it will be your fault for not controlling your dog in a public place. It's your choice, how much do you like your dog? Once they get that their dog may well get hurt, suddenly they call them back. Great isn't it, they care more that their pooch may get hurt than you getting badly hurt when their dog spooks your horse, but it works.

I love dogs, I hate seeing them out of control.


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## Luci07 (25 February 2012)

pip6 said:



			Like the biscuit idea. My bug bear is people who ride out with their dogs, & the dogs are totally out of control & of course the rider is in no position to do anything about it (just scream at them ineffectually). The guy from the neighbouring farm used to ride out with his 5 dogs who were an absolute nightmare, always going after my young mare. If the dogs are under control, fine, but all to often they aren't. Twice my girl has been attacked by dogs whilst I have been riding her (one got her down in a ditch with me still on top, the second i'd got off to reposition the saddle & the dogs attacked her whilst I was remounting, the man of the couple said they should apologise, the woman said no, that's what dogs do), both times GS incidentally, so my girl will kick dogs now if they get close to her.

Whenever I encounter a dog who is a problem, they start to come up behind I very nicely ask for them to be controlled. You always get the responses of 'don't worry, he wont hurt you', 'he's only playing', or just get blanked. My reply is if your dog gets close my horse will kick him, she wears metal shoes with road nails so there is a very good chance your dog will be fatally injured, it's not my horse that will get hurt, & it will be your fault for not controlling your dog in a public place. It's your choice, how much do you like your dog? Once they get that their dog may well get hurt, suddenly they call them back. Great isn't it, they care more that their pooch may get hurt than you getting badly hurt when their dog spooks your horse, but it works.

I love dogs, I hate seeing them out of control.
		
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Me too. If it was that easy I would all three out with me hacking but I can't as I know I cannot control them properly on board. To me, control means being able to keep your dog focused on you and to LEAVE all other humans and dogs alone. Also to stop and wait when told.  I have one dog I have nearly trained but still have to stick to short rides as she will not ignore people and that is bad manners. SEriously thinking of coupling her to my friends working cocker who IS fully trained to teach her that leave means leave when on a hack. Needless to say, on the floor, she has no problems.


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