# Is it time to let go?



## Spb97 (13 June 2018)

Im wondering if anyone has had similar experiences with their horses. I am considering PTS my horse of a lifetime. He has been on/off lame for over a year now but is now sound enough to plod around the field. He has KS and Bone spavin in both hocks. Horse has become terrified of vets to the point its dangerous so I am not continuing treatment. I moved yards late January so he could be out as much as possible in a big field instead of a tiny paddock and be in weeks on end. Long story short he has become a monster. He was really settled the first few weeks and happy. Then he started getting separation anxiety. This is a horse who normally can stand in on his own no problems. He began rearing, whinnying and pacing. So I gave him the benefit of the doubt and made sure he was always with a buddy but the behaviour continued until the whole yard had to bring in their horses to settle him to the point he ripped down a hay bar and cut open his back legs. We also have a wash block where we hose down muddy legs again fine for the first month then started rearing and being bolshy and having no regard for me like I wasnt even there even with a bit in. He then started throwing a front leg forward and almost acting like a stallion. I often would come up to him standing in the middle of the field whinnying even with company. Now they are all out overnight and we have a large hill they sometimes go up. I went to get him in to feed and he started whinnying once over the hill reared and kicked me in the back. Since then he refuses to come in unless I bring a friend and even then he has a one hour window before he kicks off. He also used to be well mannered but the other day I went to push a friends horse away from me and he grabbed me by the arm and wouldnt let go leaving a very swollen arm and bite mark which drew blood. He was aiming for the other horse but he then turned to kick me in the head narrowly missing. He has also charged at other horses when Ive been bringing them in. Now we dont have a lot of grass so this could be food agression I guess but after the crap winter they cant go over to the summer field until the end of June. I have been feeding him every day and giving him 20 minutes of grass by feeding him just outside the gate away from the others but close enough so he can see them. He is rapidly loosing weight I can easily feel his ribs through his thin fly sheet and Ive upped it to two feeds. Trouble is he wont come in and have some hay and after how aggressive he was towards me I wouldnt want the owner putting hay in the field. He also needs his feet trimming and his jabs but I dont know if hell stand for either and if hell go mental when I bring him in as he becomes mindless and crazy when he kicks off. I was also told the other day most of the horses were in but one which he was still out with and he galloped up and down the fence line whinnying until someone put another horse out. Ive also been around to see him doing this too when other horses have gone away to a show even though he has a buddy if too many leave he gets upset. I almost think if one died or left hed never stop whinnying for it. Hes also become the field bully which I have never seen before from him. Hes also started dribbling a lot and I witnessed him having a wobbly moment a few weeks ago but nothing since and seems bright and alert. Spoken to my vet who has given me the option but I just cant seem to let go. I wondered if anyone else has had experiences where there horse has turned into a complete monster overnight. Hes only 13 and retired. I want to help his weight loss but hes becoming too dangerous to bring in and feed at this rate. I feel selfish as a huge reason I dont want to let him go is because horses are the only thing that keeps me sane and gets me out in the fresh air and Ive had him since he was 4. Im not sure if I could afford getting a new one after letting him go but he wont let me do whats best for him and bring him in (hed need all 5 of his buddys in to settle).


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## View (13 June 2018)

He sounds a very unhappy horse.  Can you really go through another 10 years of dealing with this behaviour, putting the safety of you and others at risk?

No matter how much we love them and need them, the last act of kindness that we owe our horses is to stop them being in pain and mental discomfort.  PTS is NOT a welfare issue - it prevents welfare issues.


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## meleeka (13 June 2018)

View said:



			He sounds a very unhappy horse.  Can you really go through another 10 years of dealing with this behaviour, putting the safety of you and others at risk?

No matter how much we love them and need them, the last act of kindness that we owe our horses is to stop them being in pain and mental discomfort.  PTS is NOT a welfare issue - it prevents welfare issues.
		
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Agree with this, he sounds very unhappy. 

Is he on pain relief? It does sound like a pain issue to me. Its difficult when there isnt anything to see, but it doesnt mean hes less of a candidate for pts just because he looks healthy. From what youve written hes suffering (happy horses dont suddenly behave in this way) and you need to decide whether to try and lessen that suffering with treatment (which you are unable to do?)  or end it for his sake.


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## YasandCrystal (13 June 2018)

I am absolutely sure he is in pain and screaming that to you. My WB acted so aggressively and his behaviour got progressively worse with rearing, biting, striking, kicking.  I got him diagnosed with symptomatic ulcers and chronic sacro iliac dysfunction. I did get my boy treated and rehabbed. It has taken a long 6 years for him to become the beautiful normal horse he is today. It was a very dangerous, long and stressful road. It was draining. I could not do it again and only did it as I own my own yard.
I would not hesitate to put to sleep in your situation. Hugs to you, it's so stressful, but it sounds like it would be the kindest decision for him and the safest for you and the yard. Please stay safe.
Do please feel free to pm me. My whole family wanted me to have my boy pts and it would not have been the wrong thing to do, but my boy had been abused and no one had listened to him which made me determined to make him feel better.


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## MuffettMischief (13 June 2018)

I wouldnt think it would be the wrong thing to put to sleep. It depends on why hes doing it, although it doesnt sound as if he will let you find out. I lost my best friend last week due to colic that we couldnt get under control. We said 'if this lot of pain relief doesnt work then we call it a day', it didnt work but it didnt feel like 'time' so we tried one more lot of pain relief and a different approach before we finally decided enough was enough. I had to make sure in my head that I had done all I could before making that decision. Only you know your own mind and your own pony and if you think its time and you feel as though you have done all you can in the situation you are presented with, then you have to do whats right for YOU both. Such a difficult situation to be in, it sounds as though he really isnt making it easy for you. I really feel for you.


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## SpringArising (13 June 2018)

I read the first paragraph and thought PTS. Best wishes.


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## Pearlsasinger (13 June 2018)

He sounds to be terribly unhappy.  It does sound to be a pain issue but he reminds me rather of a mare that I used to own whose behaviour gradually go worse and worse until she was dangerous to handle.  Just before she was to be pts we changed her diet, took her off all hard feed and eventually fed her on alfalfa, which she tolerated well, although many don't.   and we jkept her for another 12 years.  Her behaviour changed completely  It does sound as if, amongst other things, your horse is hungry.  Why doesn't the YO put hay out if they won't allow the horses to go into a field with enough grass?

I don't think it would be wrong for you to decide to pts, his current quality of life is poor and he is endangering you.


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## dixie (13 June 2018)

I had a similar situation in that we had a homebred. He had various soundness issues over the years but was good to handle and ride. Over time he got very aggressive and eventually diagnosed with ulcers. They were treated but kept coming back and in the end he was PTS due to his aggressive behaviour at 14. It was too dangerous to deal with and he clearly was unhappy and in pain. Yours sound quite similar, probably worse. 
Its never easy but it sounds like PTS would be the right thing to do.


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## meleeka (13 June 2018)

Ive just read something on Facebook that made me think of this. Obviously a different scenario but the message is the same, especially the last paragraph:

We had an interesting case at our last dissection class. 11 years old sport horse,  which was known for many behaviour issues. He changed many hands prior he was sold to the last owner. When they "tried" to put a saddle on him, he bucked and bucked and run through their family new BMW car. His "future" was made that day...... 
We discovered he had one incredibly large gastric ulcer, very deeply penetrating, that could explain the explosive behavioural when girthed up (beside many other lesions in the stomach).
Please remember: "Horses suffer silently, they can only do two things, when they try to communicate their discomfort with us: they can change their behavioural or their performance. And they do try to whisper at first, but when we don't hear them they have to shout  .....but even that is, many times, misunderstood ....


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## LaurenBay (14 June 2018)

Sounds like pain to me. My very well mannered mare became aggressive towards other Horses and became dangerous on the ground and ridden. She was diagnosed with Arthritis in both hocks. Once her treatment began she did go back to her old self. Unfortunately it didn't last and I couldn't keep her sound.

I think in your shoes I would start feeding bute to see if there is a change this would be on a trial bases only, I would also look at moving to a field which others 27/4 turnout, it would be best if you could find more of a retirement place so Horses aren't taken away. My mare wouldn't like the disruption, so I have her out with another Horse. Neither leave the found and she is now really settled and happy. If after the move/bute trial there is no change then I would look at PTS.


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## hopscotch bandit (15 June 2018)

LaurenBay said:



			I think in your shoes I would start feeding bute to see if there is a change this would be on a trial bases only, I would also look at moving to a field which others 27/4 turnout, it would be best if you could find more of a retirement place so Horses aren't taken away. My mare wouldn't like the disruption, so I have her out with another Horse. Neither leave the found and she is now really settled and happy. If after the move/bute trial there is no change then I would look at PTS.
		
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Agree with the above.  If you don't want to let him go just yet and time is not of the essence you could give him a chance and try giving him bute and see if this works.  The weight loss and the bullying behavior in the field would suggest to me a field that is over grazed/stocked and your horse is hungry. If he does have ulcers which it sounds like he does, then the lack of fibre in his diet won't be helping. 

I am interested to know if the pecking order has changed in your field?  Has a new horse been introduced into the herd - this might explain his bullying behavior also and the sudden change in his personality, and you mention what you perceive to be stallion behaviour.  Could this be what it all boils down to?

You also say that your horse 'refuses to come in' and that he is dangerous to lead.  Can you look at leading him with another person or leading him in a bit or dually. When he comes in and he is fed does he actually concentrate on eating or just he just whinny all the time and remain unsettled?  

You state that the horse is terrified of vets so you don't want to continue treatment.  Can't your horse just have a sedative when the vet is treating him? 

I would try the bute.  If you are worried about the cost look on e-vet and see if your vet will write you out a prescription. evet are very good and reasonably priced for bute, my horse is on 1 sachet a day and my vet price matches with any website I can find and saves me a fortune.

It does sound like you have done everything you can to try and solve the problem apart from pain relief.


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## Goldenstar (15 June 2018)

You definatly ough to try a Bute trial


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## Spb97 (11 July 2018)

hopscotch bandit said:



			Agree with the above.  If you don't want to let him go just yet and time is not of the essence you could give him a chance and try giving him bute and see if this works.  The weight loss and the bullying behavior in the field would suggest to me a field that is over grazed/stocked and your horse is hungry. If he does have ulcers which it sounds like he does, then the lack of fibre in his diet won't be helping. 

I am interested to know if the pecking order has changed in your field?  Has a new horse been introduced into the herd - this might explain his bullying behavior also and the sudden change in his personality, and you mention what you perceive to be stallion behaviour.  Could this be what it all boils down to?

You also say that your horse 'refuses to come in' and that he is dangerous to lead.  Can you look at leading him with another person or leading him in a bit or dually. When he comes in and he is fed does he actually concentrate on eating or just he just whinny all the time and remain unsettled?  

You state that the horse is terrified of vets so you don't want to continue treatment.  Can't your horse just have a sedative when the vet is treating him? 

I would try the bute.  If you are worried about the cost look on e-vet and see if your vet will write you out a prescription. evet are very good and reasonably priced for bute, my horse is on 1 sachet a day and my vet price matches with any website I can find and saves me a fortune.

It does sound like you have done everything you can to try and solve the problem apart from pain relief.
		
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Field is overgrazed so managed to feed him twice a day a fibre packed feed and then they got grazing and he settled down a bit. Bute helps a little with his hocks ive done several bute trials now but vets/farrier feel his stifles could be going too now. He is larger than the others if that changes anything. Sedative wise we cant get one into him even orally is difficult, my vet gave me one incase he looks like he might kick off again. Tried chiffney and dually defies  both like Ive never seen before I normally hang on until he caught me or wraps a leadrope around himself. Not interested in food at all just screams and reads.  He is not hungry anymore he has food forage and two feeds twice a day sometimes which he refuses to eat. He still continues to bully other horses with them having bites everywhere he chases a friends mare everytime they try to bring her in and screams for her when shes away (I have no way of separating them and at this point hed be dangerous to move yards) I feel his stress screaming for her doesnt help his well-being and weight and I fear it gets worse come winter as he wont come in without her. He has also started peeing on her poop in the field which I hear is a stallion like behaviour which he did twice when I was poo picking. &#128547; hes never got attached to mares like this but equally wants the entire yard in before hes happy on a night time I cant win! I just feel terrified around him now and it keeps me up at night and I feel it may be best to put us both out of stress.


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## hopscotch bandit (17 July 2018)

Spb97 said:



			Field is overgrazed so managed to feed him twice a day a fibre packed feed and then they got grazing and he settled down a bit. Bute helps a little with his hocks ive done several bute trials now but vets/farrier feel his stifles could be going too now. He is larger than the others if that changes anything. Sedative wise we can&#8217;t get one into him even orally is difficult, my vet gave me one incase he looks like he might kick off again. Tried chiffney and dually defies  both like I&#8217;ve never seen before I normally hang on until he caught me or wraps a leadrope around himself. Not interested in food at all just screams and reads.  He is not hungry anymore he has food forage and two feeds twice a day sometimes which he refuses to eat. He still continues to bully other horses with them having bites everywhere he chases a friends mare everytime they try to bring her in and screams for her when she&#8217;s away (I have no way of separating them and at this point he&#8217;d be dangerous to move yards) I feel his stress screaming for her doesn&#8217;t help his well-being and weight and I fear it gets worse come winter as he won&#8217;t come in without her. He has also started peeing on her poop in the field which I hear is a stallion like behaviour which he did twice when I was poo picking. &#55357;&#56867; he&#8217;s never got attached to mares like this but equally wants the entire yard in before he&#8217;s happy on a night time I can&#8217;t win! I just feel terrified around him now and it keeps me up at night and I feel it may be best to put us both out of stress.
		
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Gosh he sounds very unhappy. In this situation given that you have tried everything it sounds like PTS might be your only alternative.  He sounds like he has too many issues, both physically and physchologically and if the vet feels like his stifles are causing him issues he must be getting to the stage where he is uncomfortable.  Like humans, pain makes you grumpy.  Sorry this isn't probably the answer you are looking for, but maybe its the best option given the circumstances.  Take care of yourself. x


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## ester (17 July 2018)

The bullying of others out of his space can certainly be pain related. 
It sounds like you've had him a long time and know how he is normally and this is not it. I would PTS without a second thought from what you have described.


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