# Mud Fever - Neat Hibiscrub



## winchester (24 January 2011)

One of my horses has very sensitive skin  always gets mud fever in the winter and had a reaction when we clipped him.

I brought him in 10 days ago for the farrier washed and dried his legs and apart from one small patch of mud fever on the front of one of his legs all looked well so i smothered in pig oil and sulpher and turned him back out.  Brought him in yesterday washed his legs and all the hair and skin above his knees came off and look horrendous.  Felt so bad as it was my fault for only putting the P& S up to knee height as the mud is only ankle level thought this would be fine.

I left him in overnight on a clean bed and went up this morning to see that his legs have come up all scabby all over so called the vet to take a look.

He was sedated and had his legs completely clipped out.  He has advised us not to put him anywhere near mud and have him out in the school during the day and in the stable at night.  He has also given us a course of antibiotics.

The vet has said we need to put a small amount of neat hibiscrub on them twice a day and then has said to put some mud fever cream (that he has given us).

Is it ok to put hibiscrub on neat on an inflamed leg??  Do I wash it off or just leave on?


----------



## spaniel (24 January 2011)

If your vet has suggested you use neat Hibiscrub then its the vet you need to ask.  A quick call to the surgery is all it takes.


----------



## galaxy (24 January 2011)

I am surprised and would agree to clarify with a vet.  It says on the back of the hibisrub bottle to dilute it.  I touched some neat with a cut hand once and it stung like hell!


----------



## Cinnamontoast (24 January 2011)

It's also known to thin the skin so not ideal for mudfever as the last thing you want to do is allow further breaks in the skin to encourage more broken/irritated skin. I'd lay off the hibiscrub and invest in some udder cream or pig oil and sulphur, TBH.


----------



## JanetGeorge (24 January 2011)

winchester said:



			The vet has said we need to put a small amount of neat hibiscrub on them twice a day and then has said to put some mud fever cream (that he has given us).

Is it ok to put hibiscrub on neat on an inflamed leg??  Do I wash it off or just leave on?
		
Click to expand...

You CAN do - if you want to make it ten times worse!  God only knows what your vet is thinking of!!  Neat hibiscrub is BRUTAL to skin - even if the horse is not sensitive - believe me!!  One of my ID stallions (not at ALL sensitive!!) got mud fever two years ago!  A chap who worked for me at the time decided (in his wisdom - not!) to wash the horse's legs every day with Hibiscrub.  By the time I realised what he was doing the legs had blown up, were weeping, inflamed and FAR worse than at the start!!

I WILL use Hibiscrub on mud fever - ONCE!  It has to be diluted, foamed up with warm water, the leg then thoroughly rinsed and patted dry with a clean towel!  That kills the bugs without killing the skin!!


----------



## TicTac (24 January 2011)

Totally agree with JanetGeorge. I had to use Hibiscrub to clean my mare's wound post surgery and the vet tols me it needed to be diluted, can't remember the ratio as he said it was very abrasive if used neat and would cause great irritation and soreness.

I have always used udder cream to prevent mud fever. I use it on my mare every day. It is light and non greasy. The one and only time a horse of mine got mud fever very badly, he had antibiotics, and demobian and had to be completely kept out of the mud untill it had healed.


----------



## hilltop (24 January 2011)

am supprised at vet suggesting neat hibiscrub my vet told me only put enough hibiscrub to colour the water and make sure you hose it off as it can do more damage to open wounds check with vets again


----------



## Box_Of_Frogs (25 January 2011)

Never put neat Hibiscrub on anything. At those concentrations it's caustic and will harm the skin and - in raw areas - the underlying tissues. Dilute it according to the manufacturer's instructions on the bottle. I think you must have misunderstood the vet's instructions. At least I hope so.


----------



## Mike007 (25 January 2011)

Definately not !!!! In fact I wouldnt use it at all. I use a dilute solution of bicabonate of soda in cold water .(warm water causes it to react) . It is much kinder to the skin and the acid loving bacteria that cause mud fever absolutely hate it and unlike hibiscrub it doesnt kill all the friendly bacteria too.


----------



## Blaise (25 January 2011)

I certainly wouldnt put it on neat, i would have thought it would do more harm than good! I've always been told that when diluting it there should be just enough in there to turn the water very slightly pink-ish, any darker and it's too strong. I can't imagine why your vet told you to but it onto already damaged skin neat???


----------



## showqa (25 January 2011)

I'm not a fan of hibiscrub at all. I used it twice when treating my mare's mud fever (also on advice of vet) and soon gave up when I could see just how raw and inflamed it was making the area. AND that was diluedt 10 - 1, so neat???? I dread to think.


----------



## MileAMinute (25 January 2011)

Agree with the poster who said ring the vet. Better to be safe than sorry! If he confirms putting it on neat I'd be inclined to ask him why he'd recommend that and then seek a different opinion!

Once when I was unwell and my horse was left under my (non-horsey but normally has enough common sense) mother's care she put neat hibiscrub on the rainscald on his back  
He must be a tough ol' cookie because it never did seem to react with him and the RS did clear up. 
Would never chance it again though, and she can now repeat upon asking to ALWAYS dilute it!!


----------



## Louby (25 January 2011)

Gosh I didnt realise it was so bad.
Ummed and aaaghed whether to post this but here goes 
Ive used it neat, only a tiny amount on my finger and put on to a small patch of mud rash.  I did then wash it off.  It did get rid of the mud rash, my horse didnt flinch or show any discomfort but I wouldnt use it in large quantities on a full leg.
Id ring your vet in the morning to double check.


----------



## brucea (26 January 2011)

Just a hint.

Make sure your chap has adequate minerals and particularly zinc and copper.

Think about perhaps giving him some powdered rosehip and nettle, and possibly some echinacea or elecampagne for strengtheming his immune system. Cotswold herbs is a good, and moderately priced way of getting these.

Also cut out cereals and compounded feeds for a while. sugars, molasses should be avoided too.

I've had several horses with mud fever - the only successful route was to get them away from that environment on to dry ground, and improve their diet. Mud fever is one f these things that shows that the horse is compromised in some way - so it needs dietary and management changes.

We moved yards becuase of it. Afraid some places it is just a regular ocurrence. We've never had mud fever again

The oproduct I did find useful was the Keratex Mud Guard powder - but don't get it on a cement floor!!

Agree with he others - don't use neat hibiscrub, it's too harsh. Also leave the legs dry and clean of gunks (even udder salve) for as long as you can. Drying out and fresh air are  the best things for them.


----------



## winchester (26 January 2011)

Thank you for your replies i contacted my vet (from RVC) and said to rub a damp cloth on the the legs and then apply neat hibisrub on your fingers in to the effected areas!

Well i diluted it - as never been a fan of hibiscrub - and the horse basically threw itself on me squashing me and my father against the wall!  After several attempts we left him to calm down and just applied the cream.

We phoned the vet again and he said with 2 lots of sedation to clip his legs he still managed to pick his assistant up off the floor and bash her in to the side of the stable - so thought we might have trouble!

Am now just applying the cream - and he just stands there and lets me do it gently now - so i think that hibiscrub was hurting/stinging him when i applied it!

As the cream is very thick the legs are constantly white as i just keep reapplying 

Do you think i should give the legs a gentle wash at the weekend and see how they are doing and then carry on applying the cream?


----------



## Amymay (26 January 2011)

Do you think i should give the legs a gentle wash at the weekend and see how they are doing and then carry on applying the cream?
		
Click to expand...

Personally I wouldn't put water any where near the legs.


----------



## K27 (26 January 2011)

I've always been advised to use Hibiscrub sparingly as it can have the opposite effect and prevent the skin from healing.  Personally i'd be wary of over washing the legs if the horse has mud fever, but I'd just keep on putting the vets mud fever cream on as that should help-i'd give the vet a quick call for advice!- hope your horse is better soon too!


----------



## RunRunReindeer (26 January 2011)

My vet recommends diluting Hibiscrub 'just a glug' (couple of capfuls?) in a bucket of water.
For my horse's mud fever I use plain tepid water to clean the area (taking care not to rub in any mud etc), Malaseb shampoo neat on a damp sponge, leave for 5 mins, rinse with plain tepid water, towel dry. Vet advised not to wash more than once a week.
I've found Fuciderm cream good for healing sore bits (just apply a pea sized amount directly to the sore).
Malaseb and Fuciderm both from vets.


----------



## pines of rome (26 January 2011)

Had a pony with bad mud fever i found what really cleared it up was feeding global herbs mud x


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (26 January 2011)

EEEk dont do it!!! My mare took a reaction to diluted hibisrcub and it actually made her legs worse according to my vet. I was told not to out hibisrub on her legs but use soething more suited to humans like savlon liquid as its not as trong but kills th bugs


----------



## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (26 January 2011)

My boy was on a BHS working livery/college yard and I seem to remember that they said that half a teaspoon in a bucket of tepid water was the correct dilution. No more than this and certainly never neat.


----------



## alsiola (27 January 2011)

brucea said:



			Just a hint...

possibly some echinacea or elecampagne for strengtheming his immune system.
		
Click to expand...

Just a hint... echinacea has been conclusively proven to have no effects on the immune system.


----------



## daisalph (28 January 2011)

Completely agree here.  Keep the skin DRY - clean is less important. Use a hairdryer if he'll tolerate it. Keep using the cream if he's not reacting to it and gently lift off the scabs if thet look as if they're about to fall off. The skin will heal itself once the irritants (bacterial secretions and hibiscrub in this case) are gone. Leave it open to the air.


----------



## Nocturnal (19 January 2012)

Oops, just noticed the date .


----------



## fatpiggy (19 January 2012)

Keratex mud fever powder puffed on liberally (lift the hair and puff under it) then slather udder cream on top to stop the powder rubbing off and keep the water out.  I NEVER wash my horse's legs when she has mud fever. It just softens the skin and getting it all dry in the winter is a nightmare.  Definitely neat hibiscrub is a no-no for me too.


----------



## NOISYGIRL (19 January 2012)

If your vet thinks it warrants it then you need to query with vet.

I spilt some on my hand which had a cut on it and it stings like hell, and that was diluted, if I was a horse I'd be pretty miffed having it on neat.  I decided to use salt water on any cuts.  Luckily my horse doesn't have mud fever but have to say I'd think twice about putting it on neat.

Udder cream is supposed to be good, and if my horse has had any scabby bits on his heels I've put Boots nappy cream (not sudocrem hate the stuff) and that works a treat


----------



## NOISYGIRL (19 January 2012)

winchester said:



			Thank you for your replies i contacted my vet (from RVC) and said to rub a damp cloth on the the legs and then apply neat hibisrub on your fingers in to the effected areas!

Well i diluted it - as never been a fan of hibiscrub - and the horse basically threw itself on me squashing me and my father against the wall!  After several attempts we left him to calm down and just applied the cream.

We phoned the vet again and he said with 2 lots of sedation to clip his legs he still managed to pick his assistant up off the floor and bash her in to the side of the stable - so thought we might have trouble!

Am now just applying the cream - and he just stands there and lets me do it gently now - so i think that hibiscrub was hurting/stinging him when i applied it!

As the cream is very thick the legs are constantly white as i just keep reapplying 

Do you think i should give the legs a gentle wash at the weekend and see how they are doing and then carry on applying the cream?
		
Click to expand...

Yes I'd give them a gentle wash just so you can keep an eye on whats going on, make sure you dap them dry or hairdryer, then reapply cream


----------



## rosie-ellie (19 January 2012)

Sorry to hyjack the post but can you use diluted detol instead of hibi-scrub after clipping.  My mares got the onset of it (first time ever) but after reading this i dont want to use hibi-scrub.  I do use diluted detol for all her other ailments i.e thrush, grazes etc.........


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (19 January 2012)

DONT DO IT!!!

Neat hibiscrub will strip the skin from your horse and forever after you will have issues with pain association with cleaning wounds on your horses legs.

Having taken this advice before and now reaping the non benefits of having my horse try to kick my head in everytime I need to pick a scab from his legs or treat a cut its REALLY not worth it.

I use diluted savlon now and the legs get lathered in pig oil without the sulphur


----------



## StanStan (19 January 2012)

don't use undiluted hibiscrub, this will not solve your problem. How about emft? I found it useful when my old mare had rainscald last autumn


----------

