# Feed suggestions for VERY stressy, hot, spooky nutcase



## Andiamo (24 March 2012)

Hi,
I need a feed for a stress-case, hot-headed belligerent, nervous type. He is a dressage horse, Spanish, 6 years old. 

He cannot have molasses, sugarbeet, barley, oats or alfalfa - these all make him even more nutty. 

It should be low starch. 

He won't go near Simple Systems feeds - tried it, but he'd rather starve  

I've tried A&P Calm & Condition, and Cool & Collected - both have made him worse. 

I've tried every possible calmer with no effect. 

Feet, back, teeth, saddle everything - is all fine. 

Even trying to groom him yesterday was like a suicide mission - he was throwing himself back and forth and up and down, and almost mowed me down several times - this is on a sunny, beautiful day, no wind, 20C, on the exact same yard where he's been since July 2011. He was turned out during the day. Maybe it's the Spring grass? 

I am really struggling to find a feed for this horse. His condition is fine, but in the past he has been a poor doer, possibly down to being an anxious type. 
He looks good, but he has WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much energy. 

Can anyone suggest anything? 

I've tried looking at feed company websites, but they don't state the actual ingredients, they only put the nutritional analysis  

Thanks


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## hobgoblin (24 March 2012)

Baileys lo-cal worked a treat for my nutter


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## Andiamo (24 March 2012)

Hey Hobgoblin, thanks 
Is it this one? 
http://www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk/whatproduct/general/no14.htm 

It certainly looks interesting. Do you feed it with any chop etc, or just on its own?


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## Andiamo (24 March 2012)

I just took a second look, it has molasses in it...

Grassmeal, Distillers Grains, Wheatfeed, Micronised Soya Beans, Dicalcium Phosphate, Molasses, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamins and Minerals, Sodium Chloride, Calcined Magnesite

Also, what is Distillers Grains?


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## woodtiger (24 March 2012)

I was warned that my horse would go nuts on hard feed - he is a KWPN show jumper competing at 1.15-1.20m. I have found that Happy Hoof (marketed at laminitis-prone horses and ponies) was good.


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## Firewell (24 March 2012)

I used to feed my horse baileys lo cal and it is very good! You can feed it with a straw chaff if you like. Honeychop chaff doesn't have any mollasses or anything in it, it is literally chopped straw.
Other then that have you tried adding a biotic supplement, sometimes that can help as it settles their stomachs.
Is he on grass? I find if anything is going to make my horse nuts its the spring grass! 
I would be worried that its something else other than the feed. A very small amount of feed whatever it is shouldnt have that much of an effect, sometimes they can be very stressy when they are in pain somewhere. Just a thought.


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## woodtiger (24 March 2012)

Here is the link: http://www.spillers-feeds.com/products/laminitis-feeds/happy-hoof/


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## Kiristamm (24 March 2012)

A bit of a silly question, but is he on hay or haylage?


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## Andiamo (24 March 2012)

@ Firewell, Believe me, I have spent a lot of money on physio, osteo, vets, saddlers in the past 3 months, he is not in pain. That I can be 100% sure of. He is definitely on Spring grass, it's unavoidable I'm afraid  - it's Spring!  

@woodtiger - someone else suggested Happy Hoof - a Grand Prix trainer actually. But when I called the Spillers company to enquire about it, they told me it wouldn't be suitable...maybe I will call them again on MOnday. 

@Kiristamm - he is on haylage - same stuff he's been on for ages. Obviously different bales etc. I think he would be hyper on thin air!


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## Erin (24 March 2012)

Happy Hoof has mollases (in the form of 'moglo') in it.

Have you tried him with hay/soaked hay?


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## Kiristamm (24 March 2012)

That might be where your problem lies. 
Jag at Oldencraig who specialises in PREs told us that they are intolerant to sugar and not great with starch. When haylage was changed to hay, the mare who was off her rocker changed into a beautifully behaved, very sane dressage horse. Might be something you could think about.


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## Ilovefoals (24 March 2012)

Pure Feed Company?


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## Burnttoast (24 March 2012)

This http://www.holistichorsefeed.co.uk/our-feed/ was mentioned to me the other day as being designed for PREs/similar - don't know anything about it other than what's on the website but might be worth further investigation?


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## tls (24 March 2012)

I have found safe and sound chaff without any hard feed, hay and 24 hour turnout has helped a few nutters I've had, also not riding everyday has helped.


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## hoorayhenry (24 March 2012)

wonkey_donkey said:



			Good hay (not haylage) fed adlib and no hard feed at all should do the trick.

 No reason why a hyper horse needs any hard feed if getting plenty of decent hay.

Offer a good quality vit/min lick if you want reassurance your horse is getting everything he needs.
		
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This is absolutely the best suggestion,we had a pony who went loopy on hard feed but was a saint without it.They don't need hard feed.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (24 March 2012)

When my stress head mare needed hard feed for weight gain I used http://www.winergy.com/Products/WINERGY-Equilibrium/WINERGY-Equilibrium-Low-Energy/ very low starch levels. I agree with Wonkey Donkey though, if it's not needed don't feed it! The same mare has just gone through winter on ad lib hay only and is looking quite well!


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## FrodoBeutlin (24 March 2012)

Hi Andiamo,
Not sure about the starch content etc but have you looked into the Cavalor range? They have a feed called "Pianissimo" which is designed for very hot, spooky nutcases  in full work / competing, so could be a really good solution


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## Spanish Eyes (24 March 2012)

I have heard of several owners of Iberian horses getting very good results with Pure Feeds - condition without any fizz.

The spanish stud where I got one of my PREs from also said that they are intolerant of sugar.


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## SusieT (24 March 2012)

have you scopd him for ulcers? Sounds like he fits the bill..


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## Feisty Mare (24 March 2012)

No suggestions for feeds but Falcon Feeds may be worth looking at as they list all ingredients on their website.


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## Vickijay (24 March 2012)

My mare sounds like yours and when her weight is good I don't give her any hard feed. She's out on good grass or has haylege


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## Vickijay (24 March 2012)

Sorry pressed post reply without looking (on iPhone!!)

She always has a mineral lick in the field. 

If she does look a bit thinner she gets normal bog standard pony nuts, hifi and occasionally sugar beet. 

She does perfectly with no hard feed mostly and she works very hard, out jumping, galloping etc


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## hobgoblin (24 March 2012)

It does have molasses in but fed in very small quantities so dosnt cause a problem to my horse who is extremely food sensitive he's a fussy eater I do mix it with a bit of chaff to make me feel better more than anything! 
I feed outshine for extra non heating calories he's a tb in medium work and at 16 looks the best he ever has


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## rlhnlk (24 March 2012)

My TB is on equillibruim low and brewers yeast, she's a different horse since she went onto these - much more rational about life in general than she was when she was on other feeds. The starch is really low and the brewers yeast helps with her gut. I don't need to feed a lot of it either for her weight to stay the same.


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## Fourlegsgood (24 March 2012)

Try hay hay and nothing but hay. Why feed hard feed to a horse that has too much energy?


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## tristar (24 March 2012)

i' try the just soaked hay thing,

i've got part spanish horses, they need very litte feed, just good hay, i only feed to work it off, to get the energy i want  to train and nothing more, i also find they so different to other races, they just love you put  your arms around their head and stand and be cuddled, its a if they need close contact with their riders, they then make a connection with you as and will give so much more than any other horses i have had, they are very intelligent, get frustrated by humans, who can blame them!!!! but get it right and they will give all.


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## TopTotty (24 March 2012)

If he were mine he would be on hay and a feed balancer and that would be it.  How much turn out is he getting?  Can he go out 24/7 to try and calm him down?  It works to take the worst out of mine.  
Mine are now out all night and come in for a few hours during the day and have hay only.
If you need any help try www.supplements4horses.co.uk as they offer nutritional advice.
Good luck


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## Andiamo (24 March 2012)

All great answers, thank you all. 
I checked with the yard - he is on soaked hay, not haylage (my mistake). 

So, just hay and fresh air is one suggestion...I'll need to give him something in a bowl at feedtimes though - to stop him from getting upset when all the others are fed. Any suggestions? 

*PureFeedCompany* - I had a look at this website, and the feeds looks really good - I was encouraged to see that Jason Webb from Australian Horse Training uses these - he's a very knowledgeable chap, I've been on his courses. 

*Holistic Horse Feeds & Cavalor Pianissimo* - thanks for these suggestions - I will look at these. 

*Winergy Low Energy* - also a possibility - I'll speak to the company on Monday. 

The only other constraint is that my yard need the product to be stocked by the local feed merchant, or they won't let me have it! Feed is included in livery (up to a max amount per week), which is fair.

He lost a lot of weight at my previous yard, back in 2011, so I am keen to keep him on a (albeit minimal amount) of a hard feed that doesn't add fizz, but just keeps him supplied with nutrients and keeps him glossy.


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## Andiamo (24 March 2012)

@ FrodoBeutlin - Cavalor Pianissimo - Here's some info from their website. I can't find an actual ingredients list though? Ooops, just found a nutritional analysis - it is 30% starch! , therefore might not be an option....I want to keep starch low since it breaks down into sugar. I've been told to keep it under 10% for a spooky nervous sensitive horse.


Pianissimo is specially formulated for horses and ponies prone to stress or horses that are hard to handle. Pianissimo contains herbs and other elements that counteract excessive sensitivity. In addition it contains all the nutritional components for a complete and balanced feed for sports horses. It is highly suitable for horses at rest. To reduce the level of energy ingested; these horses are usually given less feed concentrate and more roughage. However this results in a nutritional imbalance which can lead to other problems for the horse in the long term. 
Pianissimo has a very low protein content: (7,5 % digestible protein horse) which makes it very suitable for use in addition to roughage that is very rich in proteins (like silage or spring grass). After all, an excess of protein in the feed ration can cause stress in horses. With its low protein content, Pianissimo is an excellent feed for horses cutting down on training after a season, horses who are temporarily at rest (for recovery), horses sensitive to high levels of protein and given pre-dried grass as roughage. In addition Pianissimo is enriched with omega 3; this supports the general fitness of the horse. Florastimul also guarantees the efficient absorption of all nutrients and a healthy digestion.


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## wellsat (24 March 2012)

If you need condition without heating have you looked into micronised linseed?


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## kerilli (24 March 2012)

sorry, just read again.
soaked hay and nothing else at all then. hay soaked for a long time to reduce calories etc.


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## tristar (24 March 2012)

for a little feed, a bit of bran, damped, with a little non molassed sugar beet pulp, there's no feed value in that but they enjoy it and its bulky and fibrous.

i feed black oats to mine, but it has no effect on them unless i give too much, and i vary it with a bit of bran and sugar beet, plus vits etc


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## SpruceRI (25 March 2012)

wonkey_donkey said:



			Good hay (not haylage) fed adlib and no hard feed at all should do the trick.

 No reason why a hyper horse needs any hard feed if getting plenty of decent hay.

Offer a good quality vit/min lick if you want reassurance your horse is getting everything he needs.
		
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^^ This ^^

Take him off ALL feed and switch haylage to hay.  If horse is hyper he doesn't need more feeding of bucket feed, needs less, preferably none.


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## Missadelaide (25 March 2012)

Have you looked at Allen and Page's ride and relax? I used it on a hot tb mare and had, don't believe there's any barley, definately no molasses or oats.

Best of luck!


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## FrodoBeutlin (25 March 2012)

Andiamo said:



			@ FrodoBeutlin - Cavalor Pianissimo - Here's some info from their website. I can't find an actual ingredients list though? Ooops, just found a nutritional analysis - it is 30% starch! , therefore might not be an option....I want to keep starch low since it breaks down into sugar. I've been told to keep it under 10% for a spooky nervous sensitive horse.
		
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Ah, that's a pity about the starch. When J. Hoffmann came to our yard he said he uses the Pianissimo for some of their hottest stallions and really rates it.


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## Maesfen (25 March 2012)

Simplistic reply (I know nothing about Spanish horses as you can tell!) would be it's not getting anywhere enough work and by work I would say take it out of the school and take it hacking for a few hours as many times a week as you can instead of just in the school, give it a chance to relax while it works.  We used to sometimes have this problem with the hunters and pointers that they were so hyper before hunting/racing started, anything was fair game when you had to sit tight but as long as they had enough work to occupy them they'd be fine, we'd be doing at least three hours before hunting started properly.

Turnout and soaked hay for me, nothing else bar a mineral lick but I do recommend brewers yeast with some plain chaff if you have to feed something.


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## Piglet (25 March 2012)

rlhnlk said:



			My TB is on equillibruim low and brewers yeast, she's a different horse since she went onto these - much more rational about life in general than she was when she was on other feeds. The starch is really low and the brewers yeast helps with her gut. I don't need to feed a lot of it either for her weight to stay the same.
		
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Sorry for butting in on this post, could you advise me on how much brewers yeast and whether you feed the tablet form from the health food shop or can  you get it in the powdered form?  Only asking as I also have a little p/b Luso who even now at age 15 struggles to cope with life and I feed him soaked grass nuts or Simple System feeds, hay (sniff of haylage send him potty).  Totally agree with tristar, he loves nothing better than to have "snuggles",   I put my arms around him and within seconds there is very heavy breathing and he is so relaxed, his breeder did say that he likes a one to one relationship not to be one of many.  

Have found it very interesting to read that they have an intolerance to sugars, I s'pose that makes sense as apparently (so I have ben told) they are fed on straw in their native land.


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## Herts05 (25 March 2012)

Haven't read all the posts in detail , so sorry if any of this repeats what others have said.

I have a PRE who I've owned since he was castrated and imported at 5. He's as hot as they come and I learned very early on to feed him very little and certainly no hard feed.

In the last 6 weeks or so I have changed him to Dengie's Hi Fi Mollasses Free, which has 2.5% sugar and 1.5% starch (figures have been provided by Tracy at Dengie who was very helpful)

He still only gets half a scoop per feed, hay and absolutely no carrots or sugary treats.

He still powers on like anything. BUT you have to really work these horses, unless its the exceptional odd one, they thrive on physical AND mental stimulation. So anything that makes them think makes them happy.


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## lornaA (25 March 2012)

my mare can be quite excitable.  Now all i feed her is ad lib hay at night a small feed once a day of half a scoop of happy hoof with magnesium oxide added dampened with a little water and turned out through the day.  Our fields are still too wet to turn out 24/7 but another few weeks and hopefully she will be out properly.  If you thought this didnt supply all the vitamins and minerals you could add a general supplement to be sure but my mare looks great on this and still has more than enough energy to work.


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## Pascal96 (25 March 2012)

Glad to hear that he is on soaked hay but how long for?  Needs to be soaked at least 12 hours to remove sugar.  Also could you keep him off grass for a few days to see if that makes any difference? Talk to people who keep their horses barefoot.  They are very hot on diets and would be a great help to you.  The people who post on here include Oberon, Brucea and CPtrayes.  I think CPtrayes rehabbed a pre horse who was very sensitive to sugar.


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## amandaco2 (25 March 2012)

i feed mine graze on. 
very cheap its just grass so nothing to upset anyone there. they can have oil or fibre nuts added if needed. 
wont heat them up or anything.
minerals and vit in powder addition


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## YasandCrystal (25 March 2012)

I haven't read all the replies - sorry. I feed my stressy WB Allen and Page Sugar and Cereal intolerant feed and Carob kibble (locut bean) hi fi lite and a cup of micronised linseed and magnesium oxide as I do for all mine just incase they are deficient.

If I feel he needs it I give him RelaxMe - by First Horse as a calmer for a period. He only gets ad lib hay on top of this and regulated carrots - ie. no more than 2 small ones per day.

It's worked for my boy. Good luck.


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