# Very lame miniature Shetland , anyone recognise symptoms?



## Maggiemay0 (15 January 2015)

My 3 year old miniature Shetland has been very lame for 3/4 months. Several vets have done several checks, ie bloods, x-ray of feet etc and no one has been able to recognise what might be the problem.  The next stage would be Liverpool hospital which unfortunately will be thousands of pounds and out of our limit.

His front feet are close together, his back feet are spread apart, he turns on the spot with his front feet and moves his back feet around to turn.  He walks forward very tentatively placing his feet with his head nodding.  

He doesn't appear to be in pain the vet said but he does lay down frequently and lay his head back.

I have a video, I don't know if I would be able to email it to anyone who may be able to help.

Obviously the next stage would be put him to sleep, but I am desperately looking for someone who may be able to recognise the symptoms first and then we could try to help him before we consider this final option.


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## varkie (16 January 2015)

Where is he lame?  Front or back?  And is it in one foot or both?  Has vet done nerve blocks and established where the pain is?


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## amandap (16 January 2015)

Welcome to the forum.

If he is lying down a lot and walking tentatively I suspect he is in pain. Has laminitis been 100% ruled out?


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## Equi (16 January 2015)

Welcome. I would need to see a picture and video to give an answer. They are notorious for lami but in general they really don't get lame so this is strange indeed. Have the vets exrayed further up the leg into the shoulder? The sounds of it is that he has maybe got an injury that has now healed in a bad shape. Has he been with larger ponies?


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## Maggiemay0 (16 January 2015)

He doesn't appear to be lame on any particular foot but stands with front two together and reluctant to move front feet, they are cold and no digital pulse so neither the vet, farrier or the latest equine vet think that it's Laminitis, however, I have now put him on a laminitis diet to make sure for the past 3 days only, so too soon to tell if it's helping. The current vet is showing Liverpool the video of him today to discuss whether they think his shoulder needs x-Raying or nerve blocks as he thinks it is the front left shoulder but not sure. I just am finding it very worrying that no one who has seen him recognises his symptoms and worried that the next stage will be very expensive once we find out what's wrong.


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## Maggiemay0 (16 January 2015)

He appears to be lame all over but the vet thinks Shoulder maybe at the front. She is considering nerve blocking next or X ray shoulder, she is sending video to Liverpool today as she is not really sure which direction to go in . Thanks for your help


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## Maggiemay0 (16 January 2015)

Hi thanks for your help. He has not been with larger ponies only another miniature. But our field is very steep hill and muddy and lots if trees so it could be an injury but it came on very slowly first with a slight limp and jut got gradually worse. He was clearly in pain every time I liked his feet up as he would open his mouth really wide for 10 mins after . I am happy to put a video up but not sure how this works, can I add it here somewhere? Thank you


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## ester (16 January 2015)

it would be easiest to upload it to youtube/photobucket and then link on here.


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## Maggiemay0 (16 January 2015)

I'm going to take a video now and try and upload it somewhere thanks very much


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## Maggiemay0 (16 January 2015)

Ok, I think I have it on You Tube now.

http://youtu.be/XgVEOvXl6G8

Thank you for looking.


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## HaffiesRock (16 January 2015)

That broke my heart  Poor little thing. He is obviously in a lot of pain. I am no vet, but you need to get to the bottom of this asap. I am assuming he is getting pain relief?


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## Maggiemay0 (16 January 2015)

Yes I am desperately trying to help him, as I feel the same way and feel helpless. He first has Bute in September and has since had 3 x 10 day courses of anti inflammatory and painkiller.


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## NeverSayNever (16 January 2015)

so sorry but i would pts asap  i wouldnt have him go another day like that. Really sorry for you, lovely pony.


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## Pinkvboots (16 January 2015)

He looks very sore and seems to not want to move at all has the vet given you any bute for him? just because he has no digital pulse it does not mean his not got laminitis the feet don't have to be warm either infact often with lami they can feel very cold, I would be inclined to get his feet nerve blocked and maybe an xray to rule them out first.


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## Pinkvboots (16 January 2015)

Maggiemay0 said:



			Yes I am desperately trying to help him, as I feel the same way and feel helpless. He first has Bute in September and has since had 3 x 10 day courses of anti inflammatory and painkiller.
		
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Has he been like that since september? Sorry but if you cant afford to get further diagnostic vet care to get to the bottom of the problem I would have him pts its not fair on him his in too much pain to be left like that.


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## HaffiesRock (16 January 2015)

I agree, I would put this pony to sleep today if he was mine. So sorry OP, I hope you can sort this very quickly.


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## Meowy Catkin (16 January 2015)

Sorry, but I would also PTS in this situation.


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## Equi (16 January 2015)

Having seen the video, im pretty sure it is pain coming from the chest/shoulder/back and there is a hell of a lot of pain going on. I would not be letting it stay this way, im not sure why a vet has not been quicker to suggest xrays of that area. Id not be happy with this pony staying like this for much longer. I would be getting it xrayed AND a chiro type person out and see whats going on before the weekend is up, and if you can't then i would let him go. And i mean that in the best way possible. Its gone on long enough.


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## ester (16 January 2015)

I'd have put him down a long time ago, and am surprised a vet hasn't encouraged you to if he has been like this since September. You are not helpless you can stop his pain!


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## amandap (16 January 2015)

Have neurological causes been excluded? Varkie has a lot of experience with mini Shetlands so I hope she sees your video. x


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## Equi (16 January 2015)

amandap said:



			Have neurological causes been excluded? Varkie has a lot of experience with mini Shetlands so I hope she sees your video. x
		
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I have literally just had the same though after watching again and consulting a very experienced mini person. And it really actually does look neurological!


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## amandap (16 January 2015)

In case laminitis is a factor- http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diet Laminitis can affect hind hooves more than fronts in some cases.
Did the bute help?


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## Equi (16 January 2015)

Can he lift his head above the wither? Has vet investigated wobblers?


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## Doormouse (16 January 2015)

equi said:



			Can he lift his head above the wither? Has vet investigated wobblers?
		
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That was my immediate thought too. I would say neurological.


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## Maggiemay0 (16 January 2015)

He is now on a diet for Laminitis just in case, I have heard that you can get it without any other symptoms, I was hoping it was this. The Bute didn't seem to help but as it was in powder form, I never really thought enough got into him. So he has had Loxicom 3 times which is easier to give to him but doesn't seem to make a difference either. The Equine Vet who was here yesterday doesn't think he is in constant pain. 

Yes, He can lift his head up and around to the sides.  On pressing around his left shoulder joint, he does react and he tries to bite me so it is looking like it may be shoulder.  I am still awaiting to hear from the vet, she showed the video to Liverpool university Hospital to see what to do next but it will either be X ray or nerve blocks. I don't know why the other vet didn't x ray his shoulder, it wasn't clear to him where the problem was, which is why I have now changed vet. We thought it was his feet so he XRayed the feet. 

So if it were a neurological condition, what would be the options to correct it? Is it correctable?

Thank you for your professional advice. It may obviously be the only option to put him to sleep but I am following professional vetenary advice at the moment and will go down that route when instructed. If there is treatment they can offer at the new local 'state of the art' surgery then this will be done, going to Liverpool is the last resort and probably out of the equation.


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## Maggiemay0 (16 January 2015)

No one ha talks about Wobblers. I have read about it though and wondered myself.


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## ester (16 January 2015)

If it were neurological no there isn't usually a lot that can be done. 

It seems to have taken a long time to get to this point following veterinary advice, on what evidence does the vet not think that pony isn't in pain??  and what do they think is going on if it isn't? If biting you it potentially is. To be frank if I had a pony like that which I wasn't able to get a diagnosis for within the month (and ensure it appropriate analgesia in the meantime) there is no way I would keep it alive after that time looking like that and I think it cruel to do so.


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## forelegs (16 January 2015)

Oh bless him, that was really hard to watch.
I can understand that you feel helpless but I really think if the vets can't get to the bottom of it by now, he is in so much pain and has little quality of life, the kindest thing to do would be pts.


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## JillA (16 January 2015)

I actually don't think it is feet - certainly not front feet - the way he is loading the fronts as he moves forward. If he was foot lame he would be raising his head to minimise weight on each front foot as they land. I would be asking about investigating skeletal fractures etc in and around the wither/scapula area, or maybe even his pelvis, but TBH you are looking at either very very invasive treatment with not a great prognosis, and/or mega bucks. Much kinder to have PTS before he had suffered 4 months of this surely?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (16 January 2015)

That is higher up than feet.

OP, ask your vet for 2nd opinon permission & get another vet in asap. Be prepared for the worst, and have a deep pocket if you go this route. Hope pony is on v strong painkillers. Hope you get this sorted asap x


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## NeverSayNever (16 January 2015)

Maggiemay0 said:



			Thank you for your professional advice. It may obviously be the only option to put him to sleep but I am following professional vetenary advice at the moment and will go down that route when instructed. If there is treatment they can offer at the new local 'state of the art' surgery then this will be done, going to Liverpool is the last resort and probably out of the equation.
		
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maggiemay , remember the people on here for the most part are just other pony owners, not professionals however it&#8217;s also worth remembering sometimes, sadly, vets can be more interested in £ signs and we as owners have to draw the line to end suffering. I would not keep a pony like this for another day tbh, if it were one of mine there would be an emergency call out


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## _GG_ (16 January 2015)

I would have to think this was a fairly major pelvic/back issue or neurological issue and I would not bother with any ongoing investigations. To be this seriously affected and for it to have lasted as long as it has, with the possibility of long term treatment processes that may put him in more severe pain or require longer term pain relief that can cause issues themselves...all with a huge possibility that it can't work, I would put him to sleep at home, peacefully. I know that's not what anyone actually wants, but it isn't about you or any of us...it's about him and making sure he doesn't suffer. 

Thoughts are with you xxx


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## debsflo (16 January 2015)

Bless his little heart. I have a mini and I actually think it looks more his back end. He is really struggling and very unstable. I hope that they get back to you asap and can make a decision that makes him pain free.


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## Maggiemay0 (16 January 2015)

Yes, it is very difficult to tell. But I realise that it is serious now. I was expecting to put it on here and hear that it was laminitis or something that could be cured. So I am going to now unsubscribe from this post and await the vet decision, as it is very upsetting for us now and my family need to prepare ourselves. Thank you for your help.


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## Apercrumbie (16 January 2015)

It does look bad - either neurological or something very serious in his back/pelvis/shoulder (I don't think I'm experienced enough to pinpoint it).  I'm a little confused as to how this has dragged on for four months however.  Poor little boy.


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## Equi (16 January 2015)

Apercrumbie said:



			It does look bad - either neurological or something very serious in his back/pelvis/shoulder (I don't think I'm experienced enough to pinpoint it).  I'm a little confused as to how this has dragged on for four months however.  Poor little boy.
		
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The vet originally said it was lami so gave the treatment and said wait and see. Then tried X-rays and painkillers. It has went on a bit long yes, but I think op is scared and confused and the vet has not been taking it very seriously.


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## acorn92x (22 January 2015)

Is there any update on this OP? I've just found this thread and it'd be nice to know how the little guy is doing. That video brought tears to my eyes.


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## 3OldPonies (22 January 2015)

I didn't want to read and run.  I couldn't access the video, but from what you've said OP it does sound very serious.  I do very much hope that the outcome is a good one, but in case it is not big hugs and look after yourself.  If the worst has happened at least you can console yourself with the thought that your little one is no longer struggling with his pain.


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## kirstys 1 (22 January 2015)

acorn92x said:



			Is there any update on this OP? I've just found this thread and it'd be nice to know how the little guy is doing. That video brought tears to my eyes.
		
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Same here!


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## Equi (22 January 2015)

The new vet reckons it is shoulder dysplasia (or fracture) and wants to xray to be sure. Pony on painkillers. 

Hope OP doesn't mind me updating. Not looking good for pony.


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## acorn92x (22 January 2015)

Thanks Equi. I was curious as to what had been done for the poor little thing. I've got everything crossed for him, he's been in my thoughts all day since I've read all of this and saw the video.


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## 3OldPonies (22 January 2015)

equi said:



			The new vet reckons it is shoulder dysplasia (or fracture) and wants to xray to be sure. Pony on painkillers. 

Hope OP doesn't mind me updating. Not looking good for pony.
		
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So sorry to hear the bad news, I was afraid of something like that.  More hugs being sent in the direction of the OP.


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## ozpoz (22 January 2015)

I'm sorry - it did sound as if it must be higher up from the description. Poor pony and owner. I really think some vets are not quick enough to recognise and deal with pain symptoms effectively and kindly.   : (


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## ester (22 January 2015)

Oh  I do hope there is a speedy conclusion for the poor mite if that has been the case since September


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## Tobiano (22 January 2015)

oh goodness how awful.  If so surely the first vets have been horribly negligent?  Poor pony and owner.


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## merlin12 (22 January 2015)

Poor pony and poor owner.x


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## racebuddy (22 January 2015)

Poor little pony , any word from Liverpool ?? X


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## varkie (23 January 2015)

So sorry - only just seen this thread with replies.  Can't see the video, so am commenting blindly.

Has arthritis of the shoulder been ruled out?  I ask, as this is a condition that shetlands can be prone to.  

I have quite a lot of shetland experience, including their various ailments, so if I can be of help, please let me know.


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## Equi (27 January 2015)

Im not sure what the owner is doing re this thread, but i have talked again to them and they are again taking the "wait and see" method under wing. They are doing bowen therapy and homoeopathic remedies and another xray in a bit (owner is still convinced it is laminitus and will cure itself)

I'm not going to be asking again whats happening because i think i will get a little irritated. I apologise in advance if the owner does come on here but you're not posting because you didn't like the answers :/


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## JillA (27 January 2015)

Poor little pony


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## 3OldPonies (27 January 2015)

equi said:



			Im not sure what the owner is doing re this thread, but i have talked again to them and they are again taking the "wait and see" method under wing. They are doing bowen therapy and homoeopathic remedies and another xray in a bit (owner is still convinced it is laminitus and will cure itself)

I'm not going to be asking again whats happening because i think i will get a little irritated. I apologise in advance if the owner does come on here but you're not posting because you didn't like the answers :/
		
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Equi, thank you for your updates, I realise that it must be difficult for you asking the owner as it would appear that she is not willing to listen to sense from what you have just posted.

I can also understand the owner not wishing to post any more as she's not been hearing the answers that she wants to.  But why not xray now and get laminitis confirmed or otherwise?  You can't fool an x-ray machine, changes in the foot will show up if they are there, if they're not after all this time then it's not laminitis.  Why muck about treating a condition that may not exist and not treat whatever the problem actually is?  I'm feeling very sorry for that poor pony.


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## ester (27 January 2015)

In which case I hope someone knows where this pony is and gets the welfare authorities involved asap. 

No one that claims to love their animals would make that decision for that poor pony.


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## 3OldPonies (27 January 2015)

ester said:



			In which case I hope someone knows where this pony is and gets the welfare authorities involved asap. 

No one that claims to love their animals would make that decision for that poor pony.
		
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Well said ester.

I think I edited my post too severely - I was scared you'd all think me totally heartless with what I originally wrote.  It turned into a bit of a rant.

The end result is probably going to be the same anyway, it's just prolonging the agony for that poor little pony.


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## Equi (27 January 2015)

Lami was already ruled out by an xray, this xray is for the shoulder.


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## HaffiesRock (27 January 2015)

I am very disturbed to hear this. Poor pony


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