# Tb's - can you get a piebald or skewbald?



## Gingerwitch (21 October 2011)

Genuine question, i dont think i have ever seen a coloured tb - is this to do with the breeding line ie the gene never introduced or is it something else ?

thanks

GW


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## Truly (22 October 2011)

This yearling was sold this month at Tattersalls for £11000. 
He is by I was Framed an imported frame overo from the US now standing in France and out of a winning mare bred by Andbel stud.
You can get piebalds and skewbalds (known as Painted) and Palomino, Buckskin and Cremello in the General Stud Book at Weatherby's. 
I own the only cremello TB in the UK and have bred the first Buckskin and Palomino TB's in the UK 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld16uiSVLFQ


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## PapaFrita (22 October 2011)

You sort of can, but not entirely; You can breed a coloured with a tb and after 6 (I think) generations of cross breeding with tbs the offspring will be accepted as a TB, so there are coloured tbs, as there are pallys, etc, but they are the result of crossbreeding.


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## SusannaF (22 October 2011)

AngroveStud should pop up soon  She breeds coloured TBs and has one in training.


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## s4sugar (22 October 2011)

You can get coloured TBs with frame overo or splash patterns like the lovely colt linked above. 

The tobiano ones like Angrove stud has are the result of cross breeding and not pure TB.


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## Sportznight (22 October 2011)

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2009/01/051.shtml
http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColoursFarm/Chestnut_Sabinos.html


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## Enfys (22 October 2011)

This mare lives down the road from me  at TCF 







http://truecoloursfarm.com/guaranteed-gold---photos.html

GG is closely related to Truly's cremello Tb I believe.


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## Gingerwitch (22 October 2011)

Thank you to all that have replied - I love a day when I learn something new.


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## Aoibhin (22 October 2011)

Penniless has a brindle TB mare who is stunning.


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## vineyridge (22 October 2011)

There are quite a few wildly colored TBs in the US.  Google Airdrie Apache and his dam or Puchilingui.


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## Cuppatea (22 October 2011)

There is a horse called Pancake that runs in GB with a lot of white under his belly aswell as his legs. Think he is officially classed as chestnut but has more white than some skewbalds.


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## equinim (22 October 2011)

there is  now uk breeders breeding coloured tb's
1 of which is racing in next few months.
there is  now also acremello and his progeny a buckskin tb now reg with wetherbys as pure tb.s


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## Truly (23 October 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			You sort of can, but not entirely; You can breed a coloured with a tb and after 6 (I think) generations of cross breeding with tbs the offspring will be accepted as a TB, so there are coloured tbs, as there are pallys, etc, but they are the result of crossbreeding.
		
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They are not a result of cross breeding PapaFrita.
Please check out the links below and you can see their parentage goes right back.
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10736781
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10491348
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=aurumba&x=18&y=12
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=i+was+framed&x=29&y=13


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## JRR (23 October 2011)

All the others that have been pictured are variations on Sabino (there have been 11 genetic sabino types identified). There is no Tobiano in the TB breed.


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## angrovestud (23 October 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Coloured-Thoroughbred-Breeders-Association/110599812340219

This page on Facebook has been founded to allow breeders of Pure Thoroughbreds and breeders like me with nearly full TBs to show the world we  exist, and to help each other and show support when they race in any country.
Yes we have a coloured horse in training or he will be returning to training in January hes in my sig pic

 We decided to introduce the colour gene Tobiano to the TB breed then we dont have to worry about keeping the colour their, like truly we have a horse that is Homozygous for its desired gene.


Dominant white is the new gene identified there is only 1 sabino gene mapped and that is SB1


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## angrovestud (23 October 2011)

Penniless Rare Brindle mare Splodge













by Galileo out of four roses.










Angrove rumbaba









and the coloured Horse by I was framed that sold at Tatts photo kindly taken by Steph greaves Artist


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 October 2011)

Unfortunately yes, you can get coloured TB's. I'm very old fashioned and absolutely hate the idea of a coloured tb. I'm not the biggest fan of splashes either. In fact the less white the better for me! Given a choice I would never have a coloured and sorry but I'm not the worlds greatest fan of palamino's, buckskins, duns or cremello's in any breed. Give me a good bay, grey or chestnut anyday!


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## joeanne (23 October 2011)

Horses for courses EKW......I ADORE the fact we are starting to see coloureds on the track...makes them easier to follow too IMO!
Angrove....the boy is stunning (but you knew that anyways!!)


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## Shavings (23 October 2011)

I do believe there are slowly coming more and more different colours in the TBs and i think its great i love colours so if they are to start in the TBs i am all for it


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## Fools Motto (23 October 2011)

I LOVE the brindle horse! Fabulous.
I am all for coloured horses, and I think, although may take some getting used to, that we will see many coloured racehorses in the years to come. It may not be everyones cup of tea, but it WILL attract the public eyes. Surely that is a good thing for the sport?


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## Penniless (23 October 2011)

cool mix said:



			I LOVE the brindle horse! Fabulous.
I am all for coloured horses, and I think, although may take some getting used to, that we will see many coloured racehorses in the years to come. It may not be everyones cup of tea, but it WILL attract the public eyes. Surely that is a good thing for the sport?
		
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Glad you like my brindle - although when we bought her she was just a plain chesnut with a big white splodge on her side (hence the stable name "Splodge").  As the years have gone on (she's now 9 years old), the splodge gets a brighter white during the summer months and from March onwards (through to another couple of weeks time), she is covered in what we describe as tiger stripes.  (You should have seen her about 6 weeks ago - it was very weird!)  During the summer they are at their strongest in colour.  Come November time, the stripes start to fade although don't disappear completely, and the following year, back they all come - and more and more each year.  Apparently we're told this is normal with brindles as indeed is the fact that as she gets older, she's got more.

We always thought she was just a "weird" colour as indeed did our vets and the TB studs we've visited (Darley, Cheveley Park, National Stud etc) and these studs have sometimes given her a strange look when she's arrived for her walk-in covering.

She's had four foals so far - the oldest is 3 years old - (born chesnut) is in race training at present and this year has started getting white patches on both her sides.  The two year old is in training in France and was born bay and we haven't seen a recent photo of her to know what colouring she is now.  The yearling colt is at home - he was born bay - and apart from being the image of his sire - also has white in his tail and has white flecks in his hind quarters.  And then this years filly foal already has white hair over one side of her face which she wasn't born with and already seeing some white hairs over her body appearing.  

This mare is totally a full Thoroughbred - no crosses in her at all.  She does have American blood in her (so maybe this is where the colouring comes from,), but Splodge's TB ancestry can be traced all the way back from the very start.  

Glad you like the colour.


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## Fools Motto (23 October 2011)

Penniless said:



			Glad you like my brindle - although when we bought her she was just a plain chesnut with a big white splodge on her side (hence the stable name "Splodge").  As the years have gone on (she's now 9 years old), the splodge gets a brighter white during the summer months and from March onwards (through to another couple of weeks time), she is covered in what we describe as tiger stripes.  (You should have seen her about 6 weeks ago - it was very weird!)  During the summer they are at their strongest in colour.  Come November time, the stripes start to fade although don't disappear completely, and the following year, back they all come - and more and more each year.  Apparently we're told this is normal with brindles as indeed is the fact that as she gets older, she's got more.

We always thought she was just a "weird" colour as indeed did our vets and the TB studs we've visited (Darley, Cheveley Park, National Stud etc) and these studs have sometimes given her a strange look when she's arrived for her walk-in covering.

She's had four foals so far - the oldest is 3 years old - (born chesnut) is in race training at present and this year has started getting white patches on both her sides.  The two year old is in training in France and was born bay and we haven't seen a recent photo of her to know what colouring she is now.  The yearling colt is at home - he was born bay - and apart from being the image of his sire - also has white in his tail and has white flecks in his hind quarters.  And then this years filly foal already has white hair over one side of her face which she wasn't born with and already seeing some white hairs over her body appearing.  

This mare is totally a full Thoroughbred - no crosses in her at all.  She does have American blood in her (so maybe this is where the colouring comes from,), but Splodge's TB ancestry can be traced all the way back from the very start.  

Glad you like the colour.
		
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Thankyou for telling me (us) more about her. Good luck for her future foals/racing progeny.


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## Enfys (24 October 2011)

EKW said:



			Give me a good bay, grey or chestnut anyday!
		
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Well you can have the bays (5) and chestnuts (6) I have in my paddocks then for a start then  

With the exceptions of arabians (and I like them to come in pure white please  ) I am the complete opposite of you in colour preference 
The louder the colour (but only overos) and/or the more yellow they are the more I'd like them in my paddocks  But then I do breed Paints and palominos. 

Saying all that, a good horse is a good horse whatever colour or creed he is  Our family riding horses are both blood bays.


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## SusannaF (24 October 2011)

@ *Penniless * is she by any chance a chimera? 

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=16691&src=topic

http://www.itsmypony.com/Archived-News/Dunbars-Gold-Has-Feminine-Side

Very fascinating!


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## angrovestud (24 October 2011)

cool mix said:



			I LOVE the brindle horse! Fabulous.
I am all for coloured horses, and I think, although may take some getting used to, that we will see many coloured racehorses in the years to come. It may not be everyones cup of tea, but it WILL attract the public eyes. Surely that is a good thing for the sport?
		
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While I totaly respect you personal opinion EKW I wonder how many top showing people said that 30+ years ago when myself and others set out to promote the coloured horse in GB for my sins I worked hard to get the very first class's for coloured horses at the Cheshire show and Wow there was an extra 10k people at the gate because I got TV crews radio to do PR before the Event, this was just one show look at them now it make's me so proud to have gven my help, I hope I have enough energy to do the same one more time I will die trying.
Joeanne  & Sibbystar thank you if you like ! then it will happen ........................



SusannaF no she is not a Chimera we went to a breeder of Brindle who has confrmed she is a Brindle


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## Penniless (24 October 2011)

angrovestud said:



			SusannaF no she is not a Chimera we went to a breeder of Brindle who has confrmed she is a Brindle
		
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Thanks for answering that Angrove, if anyone needs an explanation, I'm leaving it to you.  Can I just say that H from Angrove Stud has been absolutely brilliant in discovering all the colourings etc of our mare - we much appreciate it.

And yes, her first born will hopefully be appearing on the track some time next year.  It was planned to race her this year, but at 3 years old, she is now standing over 17hh and is still growing, so our trainer will not allow her to hit the galllops yet until she stops growing.  (Splodge by the way, is ony 15.2hh and the 3 years old sire was 16.2hh).  Will keep you all informed when Splodge's progeny race.


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## Queenbee (24 October 2011)

angrovestud said:



			While I totaly respect you personal opinion EKW I wonder how many top showing people said that 30+ years ago when myself and others set out to promote the coloured horse in GB for my sins I worked hard to get the very first class's for coloured horses at the Cheshire show and Wow there was an extra 10k people at the gate because I got TV crews radio to do PR before the Event, this was just one show look at them now it make's me so proud to have gven my help, I hope I have enough energy to do the same one more time I will die trying.
Joeanne  & Sibbystar thank you if you like ! then it will happen ........................



SusannaF no she is not a Chimera we went to a breeder of Brindle who has confrmed she is a Brindle
		
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Very interested in this, so does she have 2 different DNA lines then?


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## angrovestud (24 October 2011)

Thank you Penniless your very kind but I love to help if I can, Queenbee the photos of splodge plus full description of her were sent to a US breeder who told me what the signs were like not havng her proper coat of stripes till she was three and then in the summer you see the brindle but it disapears in the winter foals are not born with the brindle she was very excited about Splodge.
also Chimerics can not pass on there brindle patten they do I believe have 2 types of dna thats why they appear the way they do as one colour is overlayed geneticly over the top of the other giving you a brindle patten but it appears not to fade in winter and I am sure they are born like that also they can not pass it on as a genotype,  it is therefore not inheritable.


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## SusannaF (24 October 2011)

Thank you for the explanation  The only brindles I'd seen were chimeras, and I didn't realise you could get non-chimera brindles.


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## angrovestud (25 October 2011)

SusannaF your more then welcome I had to go learn about them very quickly when Penniless sent me photos I was blown away and I did get lots of help from my Canadian & US friends on another board, which led me to a world recognised breeder.


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## Lgd (25 October 2011)

You can also get Sabino and Rabicano genes making the horse look coloured and/or roan. 

Not TB but a friend of mine has a KWPN gelding who is registered as coloured on his passport and with CHAPS. His parents are both solid coloured and when you look closely at his markings he is most likely an extreme sabino.

My 7/8TB mare is a bay rabicano (her full TB sire was as well), her daughter is chestnut rabicano and has a lot more white than the dam. My yearling colt is now developing the white ticking as well so is going to be another bay rabicano like Mum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabicano


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