# Covering a mare - how many times?



## arwenplusone (27 October 2008)

Just curious to know how many times your mares are covered in one Oestrus cycle?

When I have sent my mare to stud she has always been covered more than once, granted, we do not time her ovulation (which is probably the reason for this)but having asked around this seems to be normal for some smaller studs.

Now, I was lucky enough to attend a lecture from an excellent vet in Newmarket last week &amp; we were discussing the fact that this is sometimes detrimental to getting the mare pregnant and that actually, to maximise the mare's chances of conceiving we should only be doing it once. 

Thoughts?


----------



## luckilotti (27 October 2008)

the two times my mare went to stud this time, they seem to have covered her daily, both times she was scanned not in foal, on the 2nd attempt, she had a huge follilce the week before she went back, and the vet advised and did inject her into season on the way back to the stud, one the 2nd attempt, she was also washed out after her last covering, yet still was not in foal, the vet could see nothing obvious which would prevent her taking (no excess fluids etc) so from my limited experiance, repeated coverings did not work. 
For the foal i bred this year, my mare was turned out with the stallion for a few months, no-one saw any 'hanky panky' so to speak and she took and everything went fab.  the negative side to that was we dont know how often he covered her, it seems they liked it with the lights off!


----------



## AndyPandy (27 October 2008)

One insemination only would be my preferred method.

One covering if it must be in-hand breeding.

Luckilotti's experience, although extreme, is indicative of the fact that multiple coverings can often reduce pregnancy rates. Most equine sperm (except some subfertile stallions, and when using frozen semen) will survive in the uterus for a minimum of 48-72 hours (and often up to 5-6 days!), so repeated (especially daily) coverings are totally unnecessary.

The most important thing is that the uterus itself is clear of debris, and fluid by day 5-6 when the embryo descends into the uterus. Repeated covering reduces the chances of the uterus being ready to support an embryo, and therefore reduces the chance of a pregnancy being established.


----------



## Guinness (27 October 2008)

We cover in-hand at work. We generally cover every other day for the duration of oestrous (think I have that right!) so generally one or two coverings. Our mares are teased each time they come in for covering though, so if they arent showing they wont get covered. This year we struggled to get anything in season, and consequently only had two mares covered once each and neither held. We sent one to stud down south and she did come back pregnant. I put it down to our miserable northern weather


----------



## Anastasia (27 October 2008)

When we have done natural covering we tend to do every second/third day, and have always had nearly 100% success of getting mares in foal, without much problems.   If there have been any problems it has ended up being down to the mare, i.e. having cysts or other problems.  Most mares tend to be covered once or twice, but we have had mares in season for 10 days!

I know what AP will say but its not always feasible to be scanning to find the exact timing for covering, and the main reason people use natural over AI is to keep their costs down.  In fact I would say my costs this year for AI FAR outweighed any year I have done natural covering.

So I can fully see both sides of the coin.


----------



## Gingernags (27 October 2008)

Asti last year, first time was covered on the 1st and 3rd days and nothing.

Then second time covered only the once on the second day and got it spot on.


----------



## AndyPandy (27 October 2008)

I know it's not always possible to get breed once and get it spot on, and once or twice is acceptable 
	
	
		
		
	


	





What I hate though, is the attitude that the mare MUST be covered every day, or that 2-3 coverings per season is NECESSARY to get a pregnancy...  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Your level of success speaks for itself, I think!


----------



## htobago (27 October 2008)

As most of my boy's mares are done by AI with chilled or frozen semen shipped to them at home or at an AI centre, they are only inseminated once - but it seems to work.

Those who come to the stud for on-site AI (he doesn't do 'natural' covering) are generally AI'd twice, usually with a one-day interval between inseminations. This seems to be equally effective.


----------



## ASM2 (27 October 2008)

We line up many mares to walk in for one natural covering per cycle - mainly for local stallions and those whose chilled semen just won't travel the distance - the mare travels instead. Obviously a less sterile procedure than AI so we say the fewer times you cover the better. All mares save one passing through our AI Centres for walk ins have scanned in foal.

Smaller studs (who often don't have the benefit of daily scanning) and of course the more traditional tb studs will do the old covering once/twice daily whilst the mare shows in season. Wouldn't know what they claim for success rates. Aside from the usuals - semen quality, mare fertility etc a lot also depends on how quickly they scan and treat for post insemination fluid.


----------



## JanetGeorge (27 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]

I know what AP will say but its not always feasible to be scanning to find the exact timing for covering, and the main reason people use natural over AI is to keep their costs down.  In fact I would say my costs this year for AI FAR outweighed any year I have done natural covering.



[/ QUOTE ]

We've had a couple this year have cost a fortune - natural and AI - and STILL not got in!  But it seems to have been a bad season.  I've had mares who normally stand for 5-6 days who've come in and gone out with only one cover.  Mares who scanned as coming in - teased EVERY day - and went out without standing!  One of my purebred mares who has always been quite easy, was AI'd, didn't take, then we just couldn't catch her after that.

My best old mare we caught on the foal heat, only had 3 scans in total to get in foal safely - if ONLY they were all like her! (Mind you, she tests the vet as she hides her pregnancies and once he's decided she's NOT in foal he has to spend another couple of minutes making sure - she always IS! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




)

I ended up with 3 not in foal this year - one we gave up on, an old mare whose developed a wind-sucking habit - washouts/Caslick's didn't help so she's retired.  One just wouldn't play at all for no reason the vet could fathom, and another got a bit TOO late and only stayed in for 2 days when she normally stands for a week, so ....


----------



## Marchell (27 October 2008)

There's no doubt that changing weather conditions are having a major effect on our equine stud season and early season, good weather  coverings do seem the sensible route.

All in all we had a decent stud season both with our in-hand coverings and our A.I. service.The few barren maress have been long term problematic ones, despite all normal intervention.We see susceptible mares as a challenge, however nature is always boss in the end!

We place a strong emphasis on teasing and knowing how the mares behaviour changes from day to day, even the most subtle of mood changes are indicators and I feel that these are often missed or discounted.These changes are indicators on  the oestrus path and an owners "day one in season" will often be "day three"  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Our aim is to cover once or twice and mares with any known breeding problems will be A.I'd with fresh semen as close to ovulation as possible to optimse the fertilisation.
Unfortunately many mare owners do not realise the complexity of the mare as a breeding animal and  often   decline simple interventions such as wash outs and scans in favour of "blaming the stallion" or the stud. Obviously no one wants to waste a clients money however the ulitmate aim is to achieve a viable pregnancy after all.


----------



## JanetGeorge (28 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]

We place a strong emphasis on teasing and knowing how the mares behaviour changes from day to day, even the most subtle of mood changes are indicators and I feel that these are often missed or discounted.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yep - good teasing is definitely the key.  And watching both mare and stallion closely.  But when a mare spends her whole season trying to rip the stallion's throat out over the trying bar - and the stallion declines to get closer than 10 feet TO the trying bar - the subtler changes are academic! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Dear Cleo this year:  scanned as having a 40 mm follicle and oedema - vet said start trying her now.  day 1: - I'll kill him;  day 2: I'll kill him while squirting a bit; day 3: I'll kill him; day 4: I'll climb the trying bar so I can kill him properly!!  Day 5 - scanned as out!!  At one stage the poor boy decided that 10 feet back from the trying bar was NOT far enough - and dragged me back to his stable!  We did ten WTF scans on her in the 3 cycles after unsuccessful AI and then decided it was just TOO late and gave up!  This is her 3rd foal and although she was foal proud last year, she was easy to tease and cover when in!


----------



## Foxfolly (28 October 2008)

Our 2 mares were covered 3 times every other day at stud (Natural)

1 in foal 1 not in foal

The one who wasn't in foal was then covered by our own stallion 3 times (2 days running due to our inexperience then 3rd time 2 days later) she then held in foal, when scanned it was big so assume she took 1st covering!


----------



## Rollin (29 October 2008)

My vet recommends covering every 48 hours during week of oestrus and that is the practice of stud I used last year.  One mare conceived after one cycle the other failed after 4 cycles and 16 coverings.

Question for Andy Pandy - what happens when stallion run with mares.  The three year old I have bought has run with several mares all of whom have been scanned in foal?


----------



## AndyPandy (29 October 2008)

When a stallion runs with mares, the teasing and courting process is extremely lengthy. The stallion will have hundreds of small sociosexual interactions with the mare as she progresses from dioestus to oestrus. This will occur until the mare is fully sexually receptive, and is close to ovulation. When she is, it has been suggested the stallion will breed her 4-10 times (some say 4-5 times, others 8-10) in the 18-24 hours where she is in full standing heat. However, I am uncertain as to whether or not it has been confirmed that the stallion actually ejaculates every time he mounts her.

After this point, the stallion stops breeding her. Even in nature, the mare is only bred for one (or possibly two) day(s), although there may be multiple mounts. This, combined with the huge amount of teasing which produces enormous amounts of natural oxytocin helps to ensure that the mare's uterus is clear in plenty of time for the embryo to descend.


----------



## Rollin (29 October 2008)

Thank you.  you have explained something else.  Three of my mares were purchased because I knew a lot about the temperament of their sires.  One, now dead, was described as having a 'way with mares' covering was never a problem.  His owner told me that in fact he would not cover a mare unless she was ovulating hence his success.

I thought this curious at the time but your reply explains a great deal.


----------



## arwenplusone (29 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
When a stallion runs with mares, the teasing and courting process is extremely lengthy. The stallion will have hundreds of small sociosexual interactions with the mare as she progresses from dioestus to oestrus. This will occur until the mare is fully sexually receptive, and is close to ovulation. When she is, it has been suggested the stallion will breed her 4-10 times (some say 4-5 times, others 8-10) in the 18-24 hours where she is in full standing heat. However, I am uncertain as to whether or not it has been confirmed that the stallion actually ejaculates every time he mounts her.

After this point, the stallion stops breeding her. Even in nature, the mare is only bred for one (or possibly two) day(s), although there may be multiple mounts. This, combined with the huge amount of teasing which produces enormous amounts of natural oxytocin helps to ensure that the mare's uterus is clear in plenty of time for the embryo to descend. 

[/ QUOTE ]

From studies I have seen, in the wild the stallion mounts a number of times without ejaculation.  PRimarily to protect himself in case the mare decides she has a headache...


----------



## AndyPandy (29 October 2008)

Yep, trial mounts are part of the sociosexual courting. I'm not sure, however, what proportion of the mounts are trial mounts, and how many actually lead to ejaculation on the "breeding day". I'm going to e-mail a colleague to find out if we can get a definite answer


----------

