# Ivermectin for lice?



## Laura1812 (28 October 2010)

A friend had my pony on loan and she is very itchy - I have suggested they clip and rug and dectomax her for lice as she has a VERY thick coat. However, someone has mentioned to me that lice are killed by ivermectin.

Can i give her an ivermectin wormer instead of clipping and washing?

Thanks in advance....


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## CMMB (28 October 2010)

Dectomax is not licensed for use in horses and therefore requires a vet prescription for off-licence use. Also taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut. Ivermectin has not been shown to kill lice in horses unless they are sucking lice and oral ivermectin probably won't reach a high enough dose systemically for lice. Dermoline shampoo will kill lice.


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## amandap (28 October 2010)

I was just going to post that I believe it's an injection prescribed by vets only. I don't believe the wormer works for lice.


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## Sam22 (28 October 2010)

You need deosect spray for lice. If however the pony has mites then ivermectin wormers do kill them but are unlikely to be powerfull enough to cure the problem completely. Often the dectomax injection is required to cure a horse of mites, it will need at least two injections and sometimes three. In my experience using deosect on a horse with mites often inflames the skin and actually makes the problem worse so you need to be sure what you are dealing with and if symptoms get worse stop the treatment immediately.


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## Laura1812 (28 October 2010)

Ooops... I meant DEOSECT as a wash after clipping, not DECTOMAX - sorry guys - thats what happens when you live on a farm!! I was on about an ivermectin based wormer....

Wouldnt use Dectomax without vet advice first....


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## helencharlie (28 October 2010)

After a recent battle with lice, Please read the instructions very very carefully on the deosect. I used this on my tb thinking that I would get rid of them. I applied following the instructions and within minutes Charlie started to have an adverse reaction to this. He got very very hot to touch and he had steam coming off his coat. I phoned the vet for advice and the advice was to hose this off straight away. IF you are going to use this, do a skin test first. Powder works just as well and is effective.


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## Sam22 (28 October 2010)

Personally I wouldn't use deosect straight after clipping as the skin will be a bit inflamed so weight 48hrs. In my own experience louse powders no longer work as the ones available now have weaker ingredients in than they use too. As HC sais do skin patch test first but I have used deosect on a lot of horses with no adverse effects and many people use it recurrently as midge repellent for horses with sweat itch.


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## TayloredEq (28 October 2010)

Horses have been known to die straight off the needle from ivermectin injections.

Plenty go ok, but not all.


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## ImogenBurrows (29 October 2010)

TayloredEq said:



*Horses have been known to die straight off the needle from ivermectin injections.*

Plenty go ok, but not all.
		
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Where is this from - anecdontal, word of mouth or reference work with post-mortem evidence.

I'm sure that any horse could die "off the needle" from any injection if you put it somewhere you shouldn't (.e.g white penicillin into a vein) or the horse has a severe and fatal anaphylactic reaction. 

IMO this is scaremongering and without proof, I personally find this type of statement hard to swallow.  If you have evidence to back it up then I'd be very interested to here it. 

I use doramectin injections subcutaneously frequently.  Personally I haven't seen an adverse reaction yet, thank goodness.  I hope not to, but suspect one may react to the drug.  I hope not fatally. 

I warn the client it is off license for the horse and the client must sign  a disclaimer. 

I find it very effective and may repeat the dose in three weeks if necessary.

Imogen


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## TayloredEq (29 October 2010)

Imogen - I had the discussion with my own vet earlier on in the year when considering it as an option and he told me that this is the case. I also have a client who had a horse die off the needle when injected with Ivermectin.

I use a respected Equine Specific practice and have been told the information by more than one vet within the practice.

My vet also mentioned that it had been reported in some research/information he had but not needing to know exactly where that came from I can't remember the name of it.

I'm really glad that you haven't had a problem, and the last thing I would want to do is scaremonger but equally I would like to be told all the possibilities before going ahead with something that could be fatal.


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## Laura1812 (29 October 2010)

TayloredEquine - I have never had any intention of injecting my horse into its vein with ivermectin - I was talking about an oral wormer

Imogen - that is most helpful thank you. I will call my vet about this today to discuss doramectin and the best course of action

HelenCharlie - thanks for the heads up on patch testing before deosect...


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## ImogenBurrows (29 October 2010)

TayloredEq said:



			Imogen - I had the discussion with my own vet earlier on in the year when considering it as an option and he told me that this is the case. I also have a client who had a horse die off the needle when injected with Ivermectin.

I use a respected Equine Specific practice and have been told the information by more than one vet within the practice.

My vet also mentioned that it had been reported in some research/information he had but not needing to know exactly where that came from I can't remember the name of it.

I'm really glad that you haven't had a problem, and the last thing I would want to do is scaremonger but equally I would like to be told all the possibilities before going ahead with something that could be fatal.
		
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I am sorry for your clients loss.  I too work in "equine specific practice" and have done so for the best part of 10 years. I haven't heard this.  I would really be interested in the research/information your vet referred to, may be you could PM me with their details so I can find out the reference/experiences of others who have seen this side effect. 

I know of clients that have tragic situations following drug administration and as faras I know it usually it is because that drug enter the body by the wrong route, i.e. inadvertant IV administration, rather than from a drug reaction.  

If dectomax has caused such reactions, it should be made more widely known for safety reasons - just because it is not licensed does not mean that it is not widely used in practice. 

If this is the case, the drug company would not be happy would not be happy with its use in the horse on or off license I am sure; and as a practising vet I would like to know more about this situation. 

Kind regards
Imogen


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## BigRed (29 October 2010)

I have a shetland that I have owned since he was a foal.  For several years I battled with a lice problem.  I tried powder and it was useless.  I covered him in Coopers Fly Repellent which also kills the lice.  I also had the jab from the vet.  Somehow or other enough of the little beggars survived each year, so that when he had his full winter woolies, the itching would start and I realised a new colony was starting.  I found the only way to get rid, was to clip the pony completely and wash him in lice shampoo.  Each week, for several weeks.  The problems with really hairy ponies, is that you only need a few lice to survive and the cycle starts up again.


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## ImogenBurrows (29 October 2010)

BigRed said:



			I have a shetland that I have owned since he was a foal.  For several years I battled with a lice problem.  I tried powder and it was useless.  I covered him in Coopers Fly Repellent which also kills the lice.  I also had the jab from the vet.  Somehow or other enough of the little beggars survived each year, so that when he had his full winter woolies, the itching would start and I realised a new colony was starting.  I found the only way to get rid, was to clip the pony completely and wash him in lice shampoo.  Each week, for several weeks.  The problems with really hairy ponies, is that you only need a few lice to survive and the cycle starts up again.
		
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I agree with this - it can be very frustrating indeed!!!

I generally actually used the doramectin for mites although it does work on lice too.  I have used other topical products such as Deosan deosect which can work well, but I'm not so much of a fan of louse powder anymore.


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## PennyJ (29 October 2010)

Re louse powder - ant powder with the active ingredient of permethrin is the same formulation as louse powder used to be when it still worked...  Permethrin is also used in human louse killying preparations...


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## henryhorn (29 October 2010)

I can only tell you what we do, and it isn't licenced for horses, but we use the pour on cattle fly repellant which kills the lice.
I pour a small amount along their mane and backbone to the tail, and have been doing this on up to 40 horses every year for around 6 years with no apparent side effects. 
My vet warned me not to use it on anything with sweet itch or ultra sensitive skin and we have found it effective and cheap to use. 
I'd always suggest you talk it over with your vet first, but it would mean no clipping required.


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## Tnavas (30 October 2010)

ImogenBurrows said:



			Where is this from - anecdontal, word of mouth or reference work with post-mortem evidence.

I'm sure that any horse could die "off the needle" from any injection if you put it somewhere you shouldn't (.e.g white penicillin into a vein) or the horse has a severe and fatal anaphylactic reaction. 

IMO this is scaremongering and without proof, I personally find this type of statement hard to swallow.  If you have evidence to back it up then I'd be very interested to here it. 

I use doramectin injections subcutaneously frequently.  Personally I haven't seen an adverse reaction yet, thank goodness.  I hope not to, but suspect one may react to the drug.  I hope not fatally. 

I warn the client it is off license for the horse and the client must sign  a disclaimer. 

I find it very effective and may repeat the dose in three weeks if necessary.

Imogen
		
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When I first came to NZ this method was very popular with the racehorse trainers and generally most horses were fine - it's how I used to worm mine - the vet would give me the measured dose & I'd inject directly into the vein.

There were incidences of horses dropping dead 'off the needle' and necropsy usually found that the horse had a very high level of migrating red worm and that the rapid death of these worms blocked veins & arteries causing the death of the horse.

Others injected under the skin developed an abscess at the injection site - not nice at all. INjecting with Ivomec died out once the oral wormers came on the market.

What I do find amazing is that many of the older trainers still like to have their horses tube drenched! So unnecessary these days with the modern wormers.


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## TayloredEq (30 October 2010)

The horse I know of that died was injected IV. 

I also know of a horse injected IM and that got an abscess!!


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