# Cud some kind person get me a number on preloved



## STRIKER (28 June 2014)

Cub saddle with handle Halsted Essex, thanks


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## DJ (28 June 2014)

If it`s this one:

http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/111137569/cub-saddle-with-handle.html

Then the number is:

07971715802


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## STRIKER (28 June 2014)

Thank you x


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## cptrayes (28 June 2014)

For goodness sake it costs a fiver to join, just pay it!!!!!


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## Leo Walker (28 June 2014)

Why? If someone can get you it. Seems silly to pay when you will only use it once. £5 is a fair bit to ad to a £35 purchase....


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## cptrayes (28 June 2014)

Because if we all did the same the site could not exist. It is, in my opinion, stealing just as much as walking into a shop and nicking five quid's worth of stuff is.


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## Moomin1 (28 June 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Because if we all did the same the site could not exist. It is, in my opinion, stealing just as much as walking into a shop and nicking five quid's worth of stuff is.
		
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To be honest that wouldn't be a bad thing. God awful site.

I fully agree re the rest btw!


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## cptrayes (28 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			To be honest that wouldn't be a bad thing. God awful site.

I fully agree re the rest btw!
		
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Yes, terribly set up site moomin!

For those who don't know, you only have to pay to get the contact details on new ads. Older ads are free to everyone to see, you just pay a small fee to get access to the number before anyone else snaps up what you want.


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## dogatemysalad (28 June 2014)

Agree with you,CPT. It is dishonest.


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## Leo Walker (28 June 2014)

The other free ad sites seem to manage with the revenue from ads, as does this forum


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## Moomin1 (28 June 2014)

FrankieCob said:



			The other free ad sites seem to manage with the revenue from ads, as does this forum 

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Not really the point.  If there's a fee, it should be paid. If someone isn't happy to pay it, they shouldn't use the site.


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## Summer pudding (29 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Not really the point.  If there's a fee, it should be paid. If someone isn't happy to pay it, they shouldn't use the site.
		
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I paid £5 recently for a whole year.....not exactly extortionate...a useful local site IMHO.  Bit mean to ask to use someone else's £5 to get info!!!!


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## webble (29 June 2014)

I love preloved for buying and selling, I have had some really good deals from there and you can negotiate which you cant do on ebay. I have also sold a few saddles on there without the crazy ebay fees!!

That said some of the advert wordings are pretty shocking and horse sales wise it does seem to attract some of the cheaper end of the market. Nothing wrong with that though certainly locally it isn't as low as DD standards


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## DJ (29 June 2014)

Summer pudding said:



			Bit mean to ask to use someone else's £5 to get info!!!!
		
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But I don`t mind, I wouldn`t have offered the info if I did  

It`s my fiver, I paid it fair and square to get access, and i`m helping some one out as people have done for me in the past. Seller gets the sale quickly, buyer gets what they were wanting ... that`s win win to me ...


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## Highlands (29 June 2014)

webble said:



			I love preloved for buying and selling, I have had some really good deals from there and you can negotiate which you cant do on ebay. I have also sold a few saddles on there without the crazy ebay fees!!

That said some of the advert wordings are pretty shocking and horse sales wise it does seem to attract some of the cheaper end of the market. Nothing wrong with that though certainly locally it isn't as low as DD standards
		
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Agree, think preloved is good. Can't get on with Gumtree! The fiver gives me access to the new stuff, good value for me!


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## cptrayes (29 June 2014)

DCJACE said:



			But I don`t mind, I wouldn`t have offered the info if I did  

It`s my fiver, I paid it fair and square to get access, and i`m helping some one out as people have done for me in the past. Seller gets the sale quickly, buyer gets what they were wanting ... that`s win win to me ... 

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So will you shoplift for the next person who asks you to give them something that they are supposed to pay a business for?

What you did was theft. You gave someone a product which they were supposed to pay five pounds to have access to.


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## Moomin1 (29 June 2014)

cptrayes said:



			So will you shoplift for the next person who asks you to give them something that they are supposed to pay a business for?
		
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I wish someone wouldn't mind paying for something I want lol!


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## Pearlsasinger (29 June 2014)

Summer pudding said:



			I paid £5 recently for a whole year.....not exactly extortionate...a useful local site IMHO.  Bit mean to ask to use someone else's £5 to get info!!!!
		
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I think that every time I see some-one cheeky enough to post a similar request.


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## Moomin1 (29 June 2014)

Same lines as piracy I suppose.


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## teabiscuit (29 June 2014)

Off with their heads! 
In principle I concur, but jeez Louise , lighten up.


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## Moomin1 (29 June 2014)

teabiscuit said:



			Off with their heads! 
In principle I concur, but jeez Louise , lighten up.
		
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Yeah but at the end of the day, it's one person, then another, then a hundred more etc etc....

It's the same as these god awful ads on FB and such like asking for this, that and the rest of it 'as cheap as possible' or free.  People expect something for nothing now, and it does start to really grate when you see it day in, day out.


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## cptrayes (30 June 2014)

teabiscuit said:



			Off with their heads! 
In principle I concur, but jeez Louise , lighten up.
		
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OK, so now we know you're not that unhappy with people stealing a fiver - can you give us the amount of money that would start to make you feel uncomfortable?

You see, where does it stop????

I do know there are bigger things to worry about in the world   And I'm disgusted that if you steal billions and are a banker you can walk away!!


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## Tiddlypom (30 June 2014)

Summer pudding said:



			I paid £5 recently for a whole year.....not exactly extortionate...a useful local site IMHO.
		
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Agree. 

I think 'what a cheapskate' each time I see one of these posts .


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## Moomin1 (30 June 2014)

STRIKER said:



			Then how come it cost me £25 to join??? I also didnt have my bank card with me at the time, i was doing a favour for a 95 year old gent who wanted a cub saddle for his grandson.  

Is it so flipping hard to help people these days. Frankly cptrayes why dont you and other nasties on this forum, go and do the foxtrotoscar instead of staring at the inside of your fundamental orifice.
		
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Wow, nice.

I'm sorry, but who it was for is irrelevant. I could use the excuse of nicking a fiver's worth of food from Sainsbury's in order to 'help the aged', but it's still out and out stealing.

I am quite sure the 'elderly gentleman' could have waited until you picked up your bank card..


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## Honey08 (30 June 2014)

It costs £5 to join.

And it's not nice for those of us that do pay it to see everyone else abuse the system.


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## MerrySherryRider (30 June 2014)

STRIKER said:



			Then how come it cost me £25 to join??? I also didnt have my bank card with me at the time, i was doing a favour for a 95 year old gent who wanted a cub saddle for his grandson.  

I could have waited 7 days and then the details would have been available, but heyho, my flipping bank card isnt attached to me 24hrs a day.

Is it so flipping hard to help people these days. Frankly cptrayes why dont you and other nasties on this forum, go and do the foxtrotoscar instead of staring at the inside of your fundamental orifice.
		
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You must be a business member. It's a fiver for the public and there are free membership offers at the moment. 

How old is the 95 yr old man's grandson ? I have visions of a 40yr old wanting a cub saddle  

I'll go back to examining my fundamental orifice, along with the other nastties who dared to mention the ethics of paying a small charge for a service.


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## Bertolie (30 June 2014)

I paid a fiver and joined but for the sole purpose of getting a phone number from an advert for a horse for a friend. So, did I abuse the system ('shoplifting' for friend)? Did the friend? (She got the horse free to good home, so the only money spent was my fiver!)


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## Moomin1 (30 June 2014)

Bertolie said:



			I paid a fiver and joined but for the sole purpose of getting a phone number from an advert for a horse for a friend. So, did I abuse the system ('shoplifting' for friend)? Did the friend? (She got the horse free to good home, so the only money spent was my fiver!)
		
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So your friend was too hard up to not only pay five quid to get a number but she also got a free horse...hope she's not too hard up to pay for it's keep


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (30 June 2014)

Honey08 said:



			It costs £5 to join.

And it's not nice for those of us that do pay it to see everyone else abuse the system.
		
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This basically ^^^^ - there have been one or two of these requests recently; and each time I've wondered why someone just doesn't stump up the five quid and be done with it. If you can't be @rsed to do that, then go onto E-bay where you don't pay to register FFS!


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## hairycob (30 June 2014)

I see these regularly on facebook too. Often re an FTGH ad as well which makes me doubly grind my teeth.


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## cptrayes (30 June 2014)

Bertolie said:



			I paid a fiver and joined but for the sole purpose of getting a phone number from an advert for a horse for a friend. So, did I abuse the system ('shoplifting' for friend)? Did the friend? (She got the horse free to good home, so the only money spent was my fiver!)
		
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Did you use the site ever again for yourself? If so, you stole a fiver. If not, you still probably broke the terms and conditions that you signed up for when you paid over your fiver.

Striker it's not twenty five quid to join, it's a fiver, and let's see how you feel the next time you have five quid nicked out of your purse, shall we?  Because that's what's happened to the owner of Preloved.


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## Moomin1 (30 June 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Did you use the site ever again for yourself? If so, you stole a fiver. If not, you still probably broke the terms and conditions that you signed up for when you paid over your fiver.
		
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I'm just wondering what sort of person the 'friend' is to allow someone to pay the fiver for them to get a number, for a free horse.....


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## DJ (30 June 2014)

cptrayes said:



			So will you shoplift for the next person who asks you to give them something that they are supposed to pay a business for?

What you did was theft. You gave someone a product which they were supposed to pay five pounds to have access to.
		
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No, I paid for the right to that information in joining up as a member ... how I use the information I have paid for, is up to me ... and of course I wouldn`t shop lift, I would pay for them item (or the service in this case) and give it away ... as I have done  .... It is only the same as some one saying "oh i`d love a raspberry ripple ice cream has anyone got one they could give me?" and me offering the one I have already bought and paid for but don`t need


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## Moomin1 (30 June 2014)

DCJACE said:



			No, I paid for the right to that information in joining up as a member ... how I use the information I have paid for, is up to me ... and of course I wouldn`t shop lift, I would pay for them item (or the service in this case) and give it away ... as I have done  .... It is only the same as some one saying "oh i`d love a raspberry ripple ice cream has anyone got one they could give me?" and me offering the one I have already bought and paid for but don`t need 

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Everyone could say that about dvd and cd piracy though couldn't they?  

In any case, why would anyone be such a mug as to pay the fare themselves, and then allow other people to get info for free at their expense?!!


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## cptrayes (30 June 2014)

DCJACE said:



			No, I paid for the right to that information in joining up as a member ... how I use the information I have paid for, is up to me ... and of course I wouldn`t shop lift, I would pay for them item (or the service in this case) and give it away ... as I have done  .... It is only the same as some one saying "oh i`d love a raspberry ripple ice cream has anyone got one they could give me?" and me offering the one I have already bought and paid for but don`t need 

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Have you read the conditions you signed up for? I haven't, but I'd be surprised if they allow you to give anyone else the number.

Do you also copy cds and dvds and give those to your friends?

And no, it's not like your ice cream example. It's like you paying  for a year's supply of ice cream and then giving one to any friends who asks. You paid preloved for the access for you to numbers for new ads, not for the access by you and anyone else who asks you.


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## DJ (30 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Everyone could say that about dvd and cd piracy though couldn't they?  

In any case, why would anyone be such a mug as to pay the fare themselves, and then allow other people to get info for free at their expense?!!
		
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Not really, i`m not copying things and selling them. If I had bought a DVD (original cost) and then given it away to someone who wanted it, I can`t see the problem with that, and no, i`m not a mug, just happy to help out if I`m in a position to.



cptrayes said:



			Have you read the conditions you signed up for? I haven't, but I'd be surprised if they allow you to give anyone else the number.

Do you also copy cds and dvds and give those to your friends?

And no, it's not like your ice cream example. It's like you paying  for a year's supply of ice cream and then giving one to any friends who asks. You paid preloved for the access for you to numbers for new ads, not for the access by you and anyone else who asks you.
		
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Yes I have just read all the terms, conditions, user guidelines and user policies, and no where does it state "You must not ever get a number and share it with a non paid member" (or anything similar for that matter). Realistically it isn`t something they could police anyway? !! 

Regarding the DVD thing, again no, I wouldn`t copy them as that is piracy, but giving away my original that I have bought and paid for, yes I have and I would do that  

But I haven`t given it away to anyone who asks (ie over and over again) .. I`ve had my membership for about 7 years now, and I think I`ve done it twice in that time ? .... When did people become so uptight? ... Sorry, I was brought up to be helpful, and to share .... I bought a homeless guy a coffee and a bacon bun on my way into work on a regular basis too ... I suppose there`ll be some terrible moral dilemma for doing that too


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## teabiscuit (30 June 2014)

My chap has stage 4 c, I can't get worked up about it. 
Nasty thread.


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## Honey08 (30 June 2014)

teabiscuit said:



			My chap has stage 4 c, I can't get worked up about it. 
Nasty thread.
		
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Sorry about your chap.

But most things must feel unimportant compared to that, quite rightly, but it doesn't mean there's no right and wrong in the world.

There are some rather below the belt arguements on here.


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## Polar Bear9 (30 June 2014)

Wow. Only HHO could get so worked up about what someone else does with £5. Whether or not its been 'stolen' its really the decision of whoever gave out the number as to what they do with their membership


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## teabiscuit (30 June 2014)

I feel offended that cptrayes felt that I was in need of moral guidence over a fiver that has sweet fa to do with me. 
Isis have annexed a chunk of Iraq to turn it into a sharia law fantasy land. 
Yes, let's get sanctimonious about pre loved's fiver.


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## cptrayes (30 June 2014)

DCJACE said:



			Yes I have just read all the terms, conditions, user guidelines and user policies, and no where does it state "You must not ever get a number and share it with a non paid member" (or anything similar for that matter). Realistically it isn`t something they could police anyway? !!
		
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The terms and conditions say you may make one download or copy for your own use and that you may share that with other members of your organisation.

In other words, you can share the information you have obtained only if you have a corporate membership, not a personal one.

I find the argument that it can't be policed non sensical. That does not make it right.


Teabiscuit I am sorry about you OH. Life can be very hard, I hope things look brighter for you soon.


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## Moomin1 (30 June 2014)

teabiscuit said:



			I feel offended that cptrayes felt that I was in need of moral guidence over a fiver that has sweet fa to do with me. 
Isis have annexed a chunk of Iraq to turn it into a sharia law fantasy land. 
Yes, let's get sanctimonious about pre loved's fiver.
		
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Sorry to hear your bad news.

However, a simple straightforward conversation regarding peoples' opinions on various matters is still allowed.


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## cptrayes (30 June 2014)

teabiscuit said:



			I feel offended that cptrayes felt that I was in need of moral guidence over a fiver that has sweet fa to do with me. 
Isis have annexed a chunk of Iraq to turn it into a sharia law fantasy land. 
Yes, let's get sanctimonious about pre loved's fiver.
		
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I'm not giving you moral guidance, I am expressing my own view. I'm sorry you don't like me doing that but it's got naff all to do with your oh having cancer, though I'm sorry he has, or Iraq.


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## Ladyinred (30 June 2014)

Jeeeeez talk about a mountain out of a molehill!! No one HAD to give her the number for goodness sake... life's too short to argue over something so trivial.


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## DJ (30 June 2014)

cptrayes said:



			The terms and conditions say you may make one download or copy for your own use and that you may share that with other members of your organisation.

In other words, you can share the information you have obtained only if you have a corporate membership, not a personal one.

I find the argument that it can't be policed non sensical. That does not make it right.
		
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The above (15.2) is in reference to copywrite laws:

15.1	We are the owner or the licensee of all intellectual property rights in Preloved and in Content Posted on it. Those works are protected by copyright laws and treaties around the world. All such rights are reserved.

No where does it state, with a personal account, you may not share a number you have got through paying your membership, and until it does I shall help out those who need it. After all, buying and selling is the game, and when it works, through word of mouth, their business will grow and many more will pay up their fiver 


On a different note entirely, i`m sending my thoughts and prayers to you and yours teabiscuit ..... horrible damn disease takes too many people ... I donate monthly to cancer research, I only hope some day soon they find a cure so no one else has to go through what you are now  .......


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## Moomin1 (30 June 2014)

Ladyinred said:



			Jeeeeez talk about a mountain out of a molehill!! No one HAD to give her the number for goodness sake... life's too short to argue over something so trivial.
		
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Nobody's arguing - or trying to argue. They are simply stating their opinions.  Which last thing I knew, was allowed.


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## cptrayes (30 June 2014)

I was not referring to the copyright section. In another section it says you may take one copy or download. And that you may share that with other members of 'your organization'. 

In any case, it's perfectly obvious to anyone that the reason individuals pay a fiver and organisations pay five times that is that you are only supposed to share if you have a corporate membership.

I have no idea why people are getting so bent out of shape about us discussing this. The increasing acceptance of minor stuff like this, small insurance fraud, etc, is, imo, a real, creeping and increasingly serious problem with society.


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## teabiscuit (30 June 2014)

I feel very much lectured to, in a personal way too. 
Opinions are one thing, posting them in such a manner that you p people off is another. 
Just sayin'


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## Cinnamontoast (30 June 2014)

HHO in spades. Where's the rolleyes smiley when you need it?!


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## teabiscuit (30 June 2014)

Thanks DCJACE, that's very sweet if you. I think I've got my angry hat on folks. I apologise a little bit and will crawl back into my hole lol.


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## Moomin1 (30 June 2014)

teabiscuit said:



			I feel very much lectured to, in a personal way too. 
Opinions are one thing, posting them in such a manner that you p people off is another. 
Just sayin'
		
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I'm confused as to how you possibly feel 'lectured to'?  Do you mean by the simple fact that some people disagree with the morals of those who don't pay for info on Preloved?  Should those people not dare say a word about it? I am quite sure some people, who perhaps, cheat benefits, or fiddle the system, feel 'lectured to' by others who say they find it morally unacceptable. The list goes on.


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## cptrayes (30 June 2014)

teabiscuit said:



			. I think I've got my angry hat on folks. I apologise a little bit and will crawl back into my hole lol.
		
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I think you have a lot of reason for that. I do hope things get better for you soon.


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## DJ (30 June 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I was not referring to the copyright section. In another section it says you may take one copy or download. And that you may share that with other members of 'your organization'. 

I have no idea why people are getting so bent out of shape about us discussing this. The increasing acceptance of minor stuff like this, small insurance fraud, etc, is, imo, a real, creeping and increasingly serious problem with society.
		
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15. Intellectual Property Rights

15.1	We are the owner or the licensee of all intellectual property rights in Preloved and in Content Posted on it. Those works are protected by copyright laws and treaties around the world. All such rights are reserved.


**THIS IS THE PART YOU ARE QUOTING**
15.2	You may print off one copy, and may download extracts, of any page(s) from Preloved for your personal reference and you may draw the attention of others within your organisation to Content Posted on Preloved. 
**THIS IS THE PART YOU ARE QUOTING**

15.3	You must not modify the paper or digital copies of any Content you have printed off or downloaded in any way, and you must not use Content separately from any accompanying text.

15.4	Our status (and that of any identified contributors) as the authors of Content on Preloved must always be acknowledged.

15.5	You must not use any part of the Content on Preloved for commercial purposes without obtaining a licence to do so from us or our licensors.

15.6	If you print off, copy or download any part of Preloved in breach of these terms of use, your right to use Preloved will cease immediately and you must, at our option, return or destroy any copies of the Content you have made.


When you read the paragraph you are quoting in your post, in the full context of what it is actually describing, you`ll see it is indeed covering copy write. 


People are getting 'bent out of shape' as 1 person, has given another person a phone number, which they would have had access to in in 6 days anyway, and people are getting accused of fraad/piracy and heaven knows what else ... it`s a phone number, that a person with the membership, who has paid their fiver, is willing to pay ... **simples**


Anyhow, back to real life, our company went into administration 2 weeks ago, another company has bought them out, 2 drivers have quit, my boss didn`t like the new company and trashed the office on Friday (and I mean trashed it) and walked out leaving me to deal with the aftermath this morning, not to mention i`ve been told they`ll not be replacing him ... so that leaves me ... on my Jack Jones lol ... oh what fun ... well, finding a positive at least I don`t have to listen to his god awful music anymore .....  

Now, where is my Gin .... **hic**


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## zigzag (30 June 2014)

Damn better  pay a fiver then rather than ring my friend who is a member to get a number


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## cptrayes (30 June 2014)

OK is in the IPR section; it's not the bit you quoted.

Dcjace, I'm really sorry about your job, but can you not see that if everyone does what happened on this thread that there will be more people in your situation, out of work because preloved went bust?

If what happened was allowed, can you tell me why corporate membership costs more?

I hope your job situation gets sorted out soon.


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## Honey08 (30 June 2014)

teabiscuit said:



			Thanks DCJACE, that's very sweet if you. I think I've got my angry hat on folks. I apologise a little bit and will crawl back into my hole lol.
		
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As someone said, you have loads on your plate and also I totally admire someone who can apologise, very few people can.  And you did have a point anyway, it has turned a bit OTT.  Hope things pick up for your OH.


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## doriangrey (30 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I'm confused as to how you possibly feel 'lectured to'?  Do you mean by the simple fact that some people disagree with the morals of those who don't pay for info on Preloved?  Should those people not dare say a word about it? I am quite sure some people, who perhaps, cheat benefits, or fiddle the system, feel 'lectured to' by others who say they find it morally unacceptable. The list goes on.
		
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Give it a rest and show some compassion.


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## Moomin1 (30 June 2014)

doriangrey said:



			Give it a rest and show some compassion.
		
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Err, I've shown compassion. I said I am sorry to hear of the predicament. However, if the thread offends people that much, then why bother posting?


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## keri66 (30 June 2014)

I'm really sorry about your husband tea biscuit. I hope things get better for you soon.
My bf is from Iraq I think he is interested in what happens there lol


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## doriangrey (30 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Err, I've shown compassion. I said I am sorry to hear of the predicament. However, if the thread offends people that much, then why bother posting?
		
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Because Teabiscuit is going through something harsh and is probably going through many emotions.  Fwiw I agree but no need to belabour the point with someone who is very vulnerable atm.


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## Moomin1 (30 June 2014)

doriangrey said:



			Because Teabiscuit is going through something harsh and is probably going through many emotions.  Fwiw I agree but no need to belabour the point with someone who is very vulnerable atm.
		
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I haven't - it wasn't me who initially discussed anything with Teabiscuit on here. That is my only point I have made to her.

I do feel for TB and her OH, however many many of us on here have bad predicaments going on in life, which we may not wish to discuss..but it doesn't give us the right to stop people posting opinions or challenging other's opinions either.  Nobody has been personally offensive on this thread - merely people pointing out their moral stance.


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## Fides (30 June 2014)

Could someone explain why I paid for my membership 4 years ago and it is still active? Even though I have a new bank card and even a new bank account. It's odd...


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## justabob (30 June 2014)

What a bunch of nasty old bints you are. It is a fiver for gods sake. Moomin I normally agree with you, but not on this occasion, as for you CPtrayes, you need more in your life.


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## cptrayes (30 June 2014)

justabob said:



			What a bunch of nasty old bints you are. It is a fiver for gods sake. Moomin I normally agree with you, but not on this occasion, as for you CPtrayes, you need more in your life.
		
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Is there really any need to be abusive like this?


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## cptrayes (30 June 2014)

Fides said:



			Could someone explain why I paid for my membership 4 years ago and it is still active? Even though I have a new bank card and even a new bank account. It's odd...
		
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Nope 

Are you still getting phone numbers on new ads? Seeing the ad is free, but you have to wait a few days for contact details unless you pay.


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## Flame_ (1 July 2014)

Nice one CPTrayes!

OP, cheeky request. Pay the flipping fiver or wait for the number to show to free members.


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## Fides (1 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Nope 

Are you still getting phone numbers on new ads? Seeing the ad is free, but you have to wait a few days for contact details unless you pay.
		
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Nope full service, including being able to put 'special' ads on


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## zigzag (1 July 2014)

Fides said:



			Nope full service, including being able to put 'special' ads on
		
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Well people could ask you for numbers then as you are getting it for free lol


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## Fides (1 July 2014)

zigzag said:



			Well people could ask you for numbers then as you are getting it for free lol 

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Ha ha good point!


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## shadowboy (1 July 2014)

I've seen people ask for numbers to help rescue puppies and dogs. I don't see the problem with that. I would share the number if I knew someone could help get an animal out of a tricky situation. A friend took a malamute puppy to the local charity this way. She asked me for the number - rang up; picked up pup and drove him to the local mally charity. She's at uni so couldn't afford to keep him herself but wanted to do something asap


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## Elsiecat (1 July 2014)

I can't believe this is still rumbling on!


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## dogatemysalad (1 July 2014)

I think we can all get a bit sensitive when bad things are happening in our personal lives, it's understandable but it's still possible to discuss a moral dilemma rather than turn a blind eye to what's right and what's wrong. It's one of the functions of social media. 

 Although we care about wars and injustice in the world, the old saying still rings true. ' Whoever is dishonest with a very little is also dishonest in much.' 

Pay the blinking fiver.


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## LaurenyLou (1 July 2014)

justabob said:



			What a bunch of nasty old bints you are. It is a fiver for gods sake. Moomin I normally agree with you, but not on this occasion, as for you CPtrayes, you need more in your life.
		
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Here here...!!


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## ameeyal (1 July 2014)

Well ive just emailed a friend to get me a phone number from preloved, because im not a full member.
{I was going to put in on this post, asking someone to get me the number, but thought it best not to }


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## Ibblebibble (1 July 2014)

Elsiecat said:



			I can't believe this is still rumbling on!
		
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lol it's HHO, it could go on all week 

I have got a number for someone before now, I've also given people my car park ticket if it still has plenty of time left on it, I see it as being nice and helpful rather than deceitful!  if you really want to be pedantic, no one should ever loan anyone anything as that is possibly depriving someone , somewhere of a sale of that item. never pass on a book you have read, or a magazine, never pass on unwanted clothes or items as thats stopping the recipient from going and buying a new item, therefore depriving a shop somewhere of a sale! what an awful world that would be!


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## justabob (1 July 2014)

Exactly Ibblebibble, that has put it into perspective.


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## STRIKER (1 July 2014)

I paid £25, so you can keep your fiver, i bought the saddle for the old gent, he has since asked me to buy him some leathers and stirrups so that will be two purchases, i also sold my saddle plus various numnahs, plus gel pad over the weekend, and it was all thanks to that lovely person who gave me a number on preloved.  Thank you again.

By the way the 95 year old gent who has hunted, been huntmaster, trained point to pointers, broken in yearlings, runs a livery yard, done showing all his life so has given his all to the horsey world really, says to tell you lot that you are a bunch of "saddos and what happened to helping people out like it was in the old days", and it is not a case of theft, if it was theft then it wouldnt be made available 7 days later to non members, its called jumping the queue.  

One other thing bitchinggg on DIY yards, i dont think so all you have to do is look at how this forum turns nasty and you see for yourself that bitching covers all ranges of persona.

Thanks to those of you would have supported my request for a number xx


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## Moomin1 (1 July 2014)

STRIKER said:



			I paid £25, so you can keep your fiver, i bought the saddle for the old gent, he has since asked me to buy him some leathers and stirrups so that will be two purchases, i also sold my saddle plus various numnahs, plus gel pad over the weekend, and it was all thanks to that lovely person who gave me a number on preloved.  Thank you again.

By the way the 95 year old gent who has hunted, been huntmaster, trained point to pointers, broken in yearlings, runs a livery yard, done showing all his life so has given his all to the horsey world really, says to tell you lot that you are a bunch of "saddos and what happened to helping people out like it was in the old days", and it is not a case of theft, if it was theft then it wouldnt be made available 7 days later to non members, its called jumping the queue.  

One other thing bitchinggg on DIY yards, i dont think so all you have to do is look at how this forum turns nasty and you see for yourself that bitching covers all ranges of persona.

Thanks to those of you would have supported my request for a number xx
		
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I can't stand queue jumping either....Lol


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## Fides (1 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I can't stand queue jumping either....Lol
		
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And it's always the 'older' folk who should know better. Youngsters daren't now adays for fear of having their heads bitten off


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## STRIKER (1 July 2014)

Flame - my request was one of many i have seen made by others on this thread, so sit on it and swivel.  Cptrayes you ask how one can be abusive, have you looked in the mirror lately, you are the one who starting typing your reply to my request with snot on your fingertips no one else.

And if it was a lost horse ad and i had found it, must i wait a bleeding week to get the number or part with a fiver just to be able to reunite a horse and its owner. I guess you would probably forget about the horse you found because you were so busy starting an argument over nothing, because your life is so empty, nite nite


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## Moomin1 (1 July 2014)

STRIKER said:



			Flame - my request was one of many i have seen made by others on this thread, so sit on it and swivel.  Cptrayes you ask how one can be abusive, have you looked in the mirror lately, you are the one who starting typing your reply to my request with snot on your fingertips no one else.

And if it was a lost horse ad and i had found it, must i wait a bleeding week to get the number or part with a fiver just to be able to reunite a horse and its owner. I guess you would probably forget about the horse you found because you were so busy starting an argument over nothing, because your life is so empty, nite nite
		
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Good grief, it's only 4:55pm - a bit early for bedtime lol! ;-)


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## Fides (1 July 2014)

Have a Pimms


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## Auslander (1 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Good grief, it's only 4:55pm - a bit early for bedtime lol! ;-)
		
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Over-tired and emotional. Best place for her...


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## honetpot (1 July 2014)

justabob said:



			What a bunch of nasty old bints you are. It is a fiver for gods sake. Moomin I normally agree with you, but not on this occasion, as for you CPtrayes, you need more in your life.
		
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 I come from the north and this would be classed as friendly joshing. This whole thread has been like a plot  from Ever Decreasing Circles, (old BBC comedy)when Martin is right but at the same time appears foolish. I do love this forum.


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## cptrayes (1 July 2014)

STRIKER said:



			I 
if it was theft then it wouldnt be made available 7 days later to non members, its called jumping the queue.
		
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Oh I love this argument 

If Tesco are advertising that they are going to do a bogoff on lager next week, is it ok for me to pop in and take two and only pay for one of them tomorrow???


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## Fii (2 July 2014)

What a load of tosh and twaddle some of you lot could argue with a squashed frog!


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## Bertolie (2 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			So your friend was too hard up to not only pay five quid to get a number but she also got a free horse...hope she's not too hard up to pay for it's keep
		
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No expense spared with regards to this horse!  Friend was looking for horse to buy, loan or loan WVTB. I spotted the advert whilst bored off work sick, sounded exactly like what she wanted with the added bonus of being free to good home. I decided to pay the fiver to get the advert details, she didn't ask me to. I paid for the information, it was mine to chose to use it as I wished. It was a gift, just like any other gift I could have bought and given her.


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## PaddyMonty (2 July 2014)

Fii said:



			What a load of tosh and twaddle some of you lot could argue with a squashed frog!
		
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Is there a specific subject we would need to discuss or just a general slanging match? Will we need to catch our own frogs and squash them or will they be provided pre-squashed for £5 (free after 7 days)?


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## PolarSkye (2 July 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			Is there a specific subject we would need to discuss or just a general slanging match? Will we need to catch our own frogs and squash them or will they be provided pre-squashed for £5 (free after 7 days)?
		
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Chortle!

P


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## Archangel (2 July 2014)

Nice one PaddyMonty. *sniggers*


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## Elbie (2 July 2014)

Blimey - I read this thread when it was first posted and can't believe it has caused so much outrage! (FWIW I'm a non-sharer of my PL account)


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## khalswitz (2 July 2014)

Can I just add that people regularly look up BS records for other people on HHO, and it has never caused a riot like this - and BS membership is much more expensive. Surely that should be even worse?


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## dogatemysalad (2 July 2014)

Isn't honesty a topic worth discussing? If stealing a service worth a fiver is ok, what's the most you can avoid paying before it's theft ?


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## rowan666 (2 July 2014)

khalswitz said:



			Can I just add that people regularly look up BS records for other people on HHO, and it has never caused a riot like this - and BS membership is much more expensive. Surely that should be even worse?
		
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exactly! This thread has got way out of hand and there is absolutly no need for some of the comments. Theres bin tonnes of threads exactly the same and they dont get turned into a b*tch fest. Im a preloved member and share info/ads with non member friends all the time, seriously in the grand scheme of things whats the big deal!? Get a grip!


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

rowan666 said:



			exactly! This thread has got way out of hand and there is absolutly no need for some of the comments. Theres bin tonnes of threads exactly the same and they dont get turned into a b*tch fest. Im a preloved member and share info/ads with non member friends all the time, seriously in the grand scheme of things whats the big deal!? Get a grip!
		
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Noooooo .... run Rowan .... run for your life, get out whilst you still can ... i`ll hold them off for you ... lololol

Eeeeeeeee but honestly, what are we all like .... 



cptrayes said:



			I hope your job situation gets sorted out soon.
		
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Thanks .... sure it will, had 2.5 days from hell to be honest, but now have a few days off and looking forward to just chilling, I need it to be fair, my brain is about fried ... think the Gin will be out again this evening lol ... All change now at our place and drivers are up in arms about it, having to do a lot of coaxing and gentling along ... working with the horses has been good practice for this to be honest .. **heh heh heh** ... though i don`t think they`ll appreciate a poke in the ribs and being told to move *over* .... **chin chin folks**


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## justabob (2 July 2014)

honetpot said:



			I come from the north and this would be classed as friendly joshing. This whole thread has been like a plot  from Ever Decreasing Circles, (old BBC comedy)when Martin is right but at the same time appears foolish. I do love this forum.
		
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Thank you honetpot, I am in the north! You are right, that is how it was meant.


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

Auslander said:



			Over-tired
		
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Lmao ... reminds of the vauxhall advert ... with the kids acting like the grown ups .....:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P03XVduURMw


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## Zero00000 (2 July 2014)

OOOPS, call me a thief, I always look up numbers for others!


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## SpringArising (2 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Err, I've shown compassion. I said I am sorry to hear of the predicament. However, if the thread offends people that much, then why bother posting?
		
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Do you realise the irony in what you just said? Class.


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## Carefreegirl (2 July 2014)

WOW &#128563;&#128563;&#128563;

That's all &#128530;

The thing I don't like about this thread is 'cud' instead of could...


Wanders off to pull legs off crane flies and harvest spiders......


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## Moomin1 (2 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			Do you realise the irony in what you just said? Class.
		
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There is no irony in it. Because the thread doesn't offend me at all.  Hence me posting in it.  What offends me is people wanting something for nothing.  Hence me responding to the thread. ;-)

If the actual thread is upsetting for some people as they have serious concerns in life which makes this pale into insignificance, then I am not sure why they would post in the first place.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

khalswitz said:



			Can I just add that people regularly look up BS records for other people on HHO, and it has never caused a riot like this - and BS membership is much more expensive. Surely that should be even worse?
		
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It's nothing like the same though is it K?

The primary purpose of BS membership is to own/ride a horse which competes BS,  the record is incidental, and of not much commercial value.

People justifying what they are doing seem to be doing it by confusing what they pay preloved for. The subscription is not to 'own' one phone number from one ad, it's to have the right to any phone number on any ad before other users of the site.

There are two levels of subscription, one of which allows you to share information with other members of your organisation and costs five times as much as an individual subscription for that reason.

People seem to be forgetting that there are jobs at stake here if too many people refuse to pay the subscription. They don't provide the service for fun and they have a right to be paid for it.

I know it's 'only a fiver' but if you excuse dishonesty of a fiver, where do you stop?


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## SpringArising (2 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			There is no irony in it. Because the thread doesn't offend me at all.  Hence me posting in it.  What offends me is people wanting something for nothing.  Hence me responding to the thread. ;-)
		
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Well since the OP wanting 'something for nothing' is the one who started the thread, it must have offended you. I'm still seeing the irony, but maybe your rose-tinted life specs are clouding your vision.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			Well since the OP wanting 'something for nothing' is the one who started the thread, it must have offended you. I'm still seeing the irony, but maybe your rose-tinted life specs are clouding your vision.
		
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SA, can you tell my what is 'rose tinted' about wanting people to pay  for the services that they take?


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## Moomin1 (2 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			Well since the OP wanting 'something for nothing' is the one who started the thread, it must have offended you. I'm still seeing the irony, but maybe your rose-tinted life specs are clouding your vision.
		
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Oh believe me, I've got far from rose tinted life specs. I spend my life dealing daily with dishonest people who are more than happy to scrounge a bob or two out of other people.


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## undergroundoli (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			The increasing acceptance of minor stuff like this, small insurance fraud, etc, is, imo, a real, creeping and increasingly serious problem with society.
		
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I completely agree with you. Its really interesting. Defrauding Pre-Loved out of a fiver is ok and Gary Barlow defrauding the exchequer out of millions is ok, but someone claiming a few thousand pounds worth of benefits they aren't entitled to is DISGRACEFUL, with multiple exclamation marks.   

Can someone please tell me, in pounds and pence, when fraud stops being ok and then the amount at which it starts being ok again? 

FWIW I am also extremely concerned about ISIS, the situation in Syria & the Holy Land, Boko Haram, the state of British politics & a fat horse I know. I thought it was normal to be able to be worried about more than one thing at once?


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## SpringArising (2 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Oh believe me, I've got far from rose tinted life specs. I spend my life dealing daily with dishonest people who are more than happy to scrounge a bob or two out of other people.
		
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I sure hope you don't work in or anywhere near CS with your attitude!


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## Moomin1 (2 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			I sure hope you don't work in or anywhere near CS with your attitude!
		
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My 'attitude'? Would that be the 'attitude' that people should pay their way in life honestly?


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## SpringArising (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			SA, can you tell my what is 'rose tinted' about wanting people to pay  for the services that they take?
		
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The person who did take IS paying for the service. They then used the information they paid for to use at their own discretion. In this case, they passed it on.

You buy a CD and your friend (presuming you have any) asks to borrow it. Do you say yes, or do you never lend anyone anything for fear of depriving the original distributors of cash?


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## Moomin1 (2 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			The person who did take IS paying for the service. They then used the information they paid for to use at their own discretion. In this case, they passed it on.

You buy a CD and your friend (presuming you have any) asks to borrow it. Do you say yes, or do you never lend anyone anything for fear of depriving the original distributors of cash?
		
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Borrowing a cd is not the same. By borrowing, you give back, therefore you are not gaining full use of the cd.  If however, someone lent a person a cd in order to copy, then it's piracy.

Whilst I am not against someone being generous and helping people out, it is rife with things like Preloved - there are people here, there and everywhere asking for people to give them the numbers, therefore it isn't just one fiver, it's hundreds of thousands.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			The person who did take IS paying for the service. They then used the information they paid for to use at their own discretion. In this case, they passed it on.

You buy a CD and your friend (presuming you have any) asks to borrow it. Do you say yes, or do you never lend anyone anything for fear of depriving the original distributors of cash?
		
Click to expand...

The service they are paying for is, as I have already pointed out, to have access for themselves to phone numbers on ads before other people can get them. If they want to be able to pass those on to other people in their own organisation, the fee is five times as high. They do not own one phone number from one ad, why do you find that difficult to understand?

I can lend a CD, yes, and while it is lent I do not have access to it myself. This is more akin to copying that CD and giving the copy to the friend, which is theft.


PS, yes, someone did offer me their car park ticket today, and no, I did not take it. Because if I did, then the rest of my district's rate payers would have to pay higher rates next year.


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## SpringArising (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			The service they are paying for is, as I have already pointed out, to have access for themselves to phone numbers on ads before other people can get them. If they want to be able to pass those on to other people in their own organisation, the fee is five times as high. They do not own one phone number from one ad, why do you find that difficult to understand?
		
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Have you found anything in the T+C's yet which states numbers can't be passed on from a paid member to a free member?


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## MerrySherryRider (2 July 2014)

undergroundoli said:



			I completely agree with you. Its really interesting. Defrauding Pre-Loved out of a fiver is ok and Gary Barlow defrauding the exchequer out of millions is ok, but someone claiming a few thousand pounds worth of benefits they aren't entitled to is DISGRACEFUL, with multiple exclamation marks.   

Can someone please tell me, in pounds and pence, when fraud stops being ok and then the amount at which it starts being ok again? 

FWIW I am also extremely concerned about ISIS, the situation in Syria & the Holy Land, Boko Haram, the state of British politics & a fat horse I know. I thought it was normal to be able to be worried about more than one thing at once?
		
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Excellent post. 
Its quite a surprise that some posters think theft is socially acceptable. It isn't. 

Also extremely concerned about major world issues and my daughter's cat's teeth.


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## Fun Times (2 July 2014)

undergroundoli said:



			I completely agree with you. Its really interesting. Defrauding Pre-Loved out of a fiver is ok and Gary Barlow defrauding the exchequer out of millions is ok....
		
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Now I must speak up on the basis I am a little bit in love with gary barlow. As far as I'm aware what he did wasnt fraud and was within the law. Its just people took objection to how he didnt act within the spirit of the law - not his fault the legislation was drafted by someone who failed to spot the loophole but if anyone feels strongly about it I volunteer to spend the weekend with him teaching him what a naughty boy he has been.....


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Borrowing a cd is not the same. By borrowing, you give back, therefore you are not gaining full use of the cd.  If however, someone lent a person a cd in order to copy, then it's piracy.
		
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But if they simply GIVE the CD to their friend, that is ok (in my opinion).... But by your ideals that person would have done the artist/record company out of the cost of the album. 

Can`t believe this is still rumbling on .... I would do it again, I have other memberships which give me access to areas I pay for, that friends don`t have, and i`d pass on info there too ... just because. 

Seriously now folks, it was my fiver, i paid it, i chose to share it ... now really, seriously? Can we move on from this? I`ve tried to lighten the thread to no avail, and quite frankly it really is getting silly now .... If anyone needs owt from preloved, pm me in future  lol


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## Asha (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			PS, yes, someone did offer me their car park ticket today, and no, I did not take it. Because if I did, then the rest of my district's rate payers would have to pay higher rates next year.
		
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Hahahaha, I love this forum, threads like this make me smile. Thank you !


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## MerrySherryRider (2 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			Have you found anything in the T+C's yet which states numbers can't be passed on from a paid member to a free member?
		
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Do you think it's ok to post a private number publically on another random forum ? Really ? 

Would it be ok then to link your private number on a fetish forum ?


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			Have you found anything in the T+C's yet which states numbers can't be passed on from a paid member to a free member?
		
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Yes, it says, as you know, that you may make one copy for personal use, and that you may share that with members of your organisation, which clearly refers to a corporate membership, otherwise the fee for corporate membership would not be five times as high.

You know it's wrong SF, why can't you just admit it?


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## Asha (2 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Excellent post. 
Its quite a surprise that some posters think theft is socially acceptable. It isn't. 

Also extremely concerned about major world issues and my daughter's cat's teeth.
		
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Now I am worried, what's wrong with the cat?


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Do you think it's ok to post a private number publically on another random forum ? Really ? 

Would it be ok then to link your private number on a fetish forum ?
		
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Erm but it`s not is it ... it an advert for a saddle for a pony, being put on a horse forum .... not the same at all !!


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			But if they simply GIVE the CD to their friend, that is ok (in my opinion).... But by your ideals that person would have done the artist/record company out of the cost of the album.
		
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Of course you can give them your CD. What you cannot do is copy it, and that is exactly what has happened in sharing this phone number from preloved.


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Yes, it says, as you know, that you may make one copy for personal use, and that you may share that with members of your organisation, which clearly refers to a corporate membership, otherwise the fee for corporate membership would not be five times as high.

You know it's wrong SF, why can't you just admit it?
		
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No, show me the wording that ACTUALLY states a paid member MUST NOT share info with a non paid member ... show me that in the legally binding T&Cs ....


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Of course you can give them your CD. What you cannot do is copy it, and that is exactly what has happened in sharing this phone number from preloved.
		
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But I haven`t copied it .... I have bought the membership giving me access to the information, and then have given that info on to someone who wanted it.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

Asha said:



			Hahahaha, I love this forum, threads like this make me smile. Thank you !
		
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I'm glad it made you happy Asha, because you are one of the ratepayers who a thousand people who acted like I did today over the course of the next year will result in YOU paying a marginally lower rate of council tax in 2015.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			But I haven`t copied it .... I have bought the membership giving me access to the information, and then have given that info on to someone who wanted it.
		
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You bought the right to access it for YOURSELF, what do you not want to accept about that?  If it was not for yourself alone, can you explain what the point of paying five times as much for a corporate membership would be?

You HAVE copied it. You still have it, and so does the person you gave it to. Two copies of it now exist.

I can understand why you thought five quid did not matter. I can understand why you thought you were just helping out. But I have no respect whatsoever for you continuing to fight like crazy that you have done nothing wrong when so many people have pointed out to you that you have.

Do you care nothing for the people who work for preloved, whose job security you have put a little chip in? That may snowball as other people copy you until people lose their jobs?


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## Fun Times (2 July 2014)

Asha said:



			Now I am worried, what's wrong with the cat?
		
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Me too. Feline dental healthcare is no minor concern.


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## Moomin1 (2 July 2014)

All those who think it's ok to pass info on to 'help' those who don't wish to pay the fiver for info they WANT, not NEED, carry on.....and eventually, given the amount of people who do this, Preloved will cease to exist (not a bad thing in my mind where the sale of animals is concerned)...


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## khalswitz (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			It's nothing like the same though is it K?

The primary purpose of BS membership is to own/ride a horse which competes BS,  the record is incidental, and of not much commercial value.

People justifying what they are doing seem to be doing it by confusing what they pay preloved for. The subscription is not to 'own' one phone number from one ad, it's to have the right to any phone number on any ad before other users of the site.

There are two levels of subscription, one of which allows you to share information with other members of your organisation and costs five times as much as an individual subscription for that reason.

People seem to be forgetting that there are jobs at stake here if too many people refuse to pay the subscription. They don't provide the service for fun and they have a right to be paid for it.

I know it's 'only a fiver' but if you excuse dishonesty of a fiver, where do you stop?
		
Click to expand...

Before I defend my own point, I do actually agree that a fiver is still a fiver and people should just pay it. 

However regarding BS membership, it is actually just as relevant. BS has decided that only members have access to records. There are non competing memberships designed to give member benefits for those who don't want to compete. So giving out record details cheats BS of non competing memberships. It is BS's information to give out - and unlike BE and to a lesser extent BD, BS has decided this information requires a membership and hence payment to receive. So it is the same thing.

So is that seen as more acceptable because most people don't purely join BS for that information, even if that too is information theft? Obviously you do see it as more acceptable.


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## ester (2 July 2014)

I was more :eek3: at a private mobile number being put on an open part of the forum than someone using another's membership.


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## Asha (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I'm glad it made you happy Asha, because you are one of the ratepayers who a thousand people who acted like I did today over the course of the next year will result in YOU paying a marginally lower rate of council tax in 2015.
		
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That's great to know, although I'm loaded so it doesn't matter.


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## charlie76 (2 July 2014)

Omg! I have just read through this thread and really? Get a grip! There are more important things to spend your time worrying over! 

OP consider yourself told and everyone move on!


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You bought the right to access it for YOURSELF, what do you not want to accept about that?  If it was not for yourself alone, can you explain what the point of paying five times as much for a corporate membership would be?
		
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Yes I bought it for MYSELF ... but how I chose to use that info is then down to me, there is NO WHERE in the terms and conditions that states:

Thou shalt not share this onfo or thee shalt be doomed to suffer for all eternity at the hands of our solicitors for ever and ever and ever ...

and on this occasion, only twice in a 7 year membership, I chose to share it ... **dizzy now** ... leaving thread ... night all


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			No, show me the wording that ACTUALLY states a paid member MUST NOT share info with a non paid member ... show me that in the legally binding T&Cs ....
		
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I can't show you the precise wording that says you must not shoplift from marks and Spencer, but you don't do that, I hope?

To me, the wording and terms are quite clear. That they are not clear to you is a mystery to me, it really is.


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## Dizzy socks (2 July 2014)

I don't really want to be a part of this.

One thing though, I'm pretty sure corporate membership is for sellers?

It this not why you have to tick the little box saying this is not made in the course of a business, and if you don't, you are directed to buy business membership?


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

khalswitz said:



			Before I defend my own point, I do actually agree that a fiver is still a fiver and people should just pay it. 

However regarding BS membership, it is actually just as relevant. BS has decided that only members have access to records. There are non competing memberships designed to give member benefits for those who don't want to compete. So giving out record details cheats BS of non competing memberships. It is BS's information to give out - and unlike BE and to a lesser extent BD, BS has decided this information requires a membership and hence payment to receive. So it is the same thing.

So is that seen as more acceptable because most people don't purely join BS for that information, even if that too is information theft? Obviously you do see it as more acceptable.
		
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I don't see it as more acceptable at all. If those are BS s terms, then sharing that information is an identical situation and people should not do it.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

Dizzy socks said:



			I don't really want to be a part of this.

One thing though, I'm pretty sure corporate membership is for sellers?

It this not why you have to tick the little box saying this is not made in the course of a business, and if you don't, you are directed to buy business membership?
		
Click to expand...

It makes little difference, the terms are quite clear, you may take one copy of information on the site for personal use or share it with others in your organization.


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			and people should not do it.
		
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But people are people and for the most part if they think they are helping some one, then they will ... that is actually seeking out the good in people for a change and not looking for the bad


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## Moomin1 (2 July 2014)

I think clearly it all boils down to morals.  I personally can't stand the sort of ads you see on FB (daily) and such like from people asking for rugs, horses, saddles, and god knows what else 'cheap as possible but must be this and that'...and for me, it falls into a similar category.  Just doesn't sit well with me - if you want something for your own gain, go about it honestly.


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

There, ok, CP ..... I will NEVER help anyone again ... not in anyway, just in case I am some how morally wrong ... I shall walk around in my own little bubble just in case I rock the boat of a multi million pound company who could potentially go bankrupt due to someone not paying their fiver ... happy now? ...


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## Moomin1 (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			But people are people and for the most part if they think they are helping some one, then they will ... that is actually seeking out the good in people for a change and not looking for the bad 

Click to expand...

It's not helping the people who operate Preloved is it though?  It's fine helping someone out, but when it then disadvantages others who are providing a very popular and useful service, it's not on.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			But people are people and for the most part if they think they are helping some one, then they will ... that is actually seeking out the good in people for a change and not looking for the bad 

Click to expand...

Oh no, sorry, that argument doesn't wash with me. Do you feel the same about people with a shortage of dosh who send someone out to shoplift washing powder for them because it's expensive and they need to wash the kids' clothes?

If you want to help people give the fiver to charity.


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## Moomin1 (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			There, ok, CP ..... I will NEVER help anyone again ... not in anyway, just in case I am some how morally wrong ... I shall walk around in my own little bubble just in case I rock the boat of a multi million pound company who could potentially go bankrupt due to someone not paying their fiver ... happy now? ...
		
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Are you really incapable of seeing the wider picture than 'just your fiver'?  There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions out there who say the same.  Add that up, and then estimate the potential damage to the 'multi million pound company'....


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## MerrySherryRider (2 July 2014)

Asha said:



			Now I am worried, what's wrong with the cat?
		
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Poor puddy tat. She needs a couple of teeth out. Vet has quoted between £250 - £400 ! Think it's only ever cost me around £140 max. Even that was dearer than the filly having her wolf teeth out. 
Perhaps daughter take the service and not pay


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			There, ok, CP ..... I will NEVER help anyone again ... not in anyway, just in case I am some how morally wrong ... I shall walk around in my own little bubble just in case I rock the boat of a multi million pound company who could potentially go bankrupt due to someone not paying their fiver ... happy now? ...
		
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No I'm not happy, I just think that is a silly over reaction. There is nothing to stop you helping people, just find a way to do it that does not disadvantage a company who has a right to the revenues that the person who asks you to let them avoid deserves.


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Are you really incapable of seeing the wider picture than 'just your fiver'?  There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions out there who say the same.  Add that up, and then estimate the potential damage to the 'multi million pound company'....
		
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About as incapable as you are at seeing the company has been around since 1997, and has been bought out this year after a lot of bids were tendered for a massively profitable company, that isn`t going to go under any time soon due to it`s already huge member data base, and if those members who HAVE already paid money to them, share the odd number here or there, and members/sellers get what they are wanting from the site, and word of mouth spreads even more, that is only ever going to be a GOOD thing for the company


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## undergroundoli (2 July 2014)

Fun Times said:



			Now I must speak up on the basis I am a little bit in love with gary barlow. As far as I'm aware what he did wasnt fraud and was within the law. Its just people took objection to how he didnt act within the spirit of the law - not his fault the legislation was drafted by someone who failed to spot the loophole but if anyone feels strongly about it I volunteer to spend the weekend with him teaching him what a naughty boy he has been.....
		
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My point is that people think it is morally justifiable for Take That to have tried to avoid paying 63 million pounds they owe in tax. 63 million squid is an awful lot of cancer treatment. 

I don't think that it is right to exploit the oversight of some civil servant who'll never earn as much as Barlow and can't avoid paying tax. Its the same as keeping extra change if a shop assistant accidentally gives you too much.

Hope you do get to teach Gary a lesson ;0


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			No I'm not happy, I just think that is a silly over reaction.
		
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and that`s how many on here have thought of your reaction to this thread too ...  

It`d never do for us all to be the same ... so on this one I think we will have to agree to disagree  ... now, I am going to drink bacardi and coke, as I don`t have to be up for work in the morning ... he he he he he he


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## Moomin1 (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			About as incapable as you are at seeing the company has been around since 1997, and has been bought out this year after a lot of bids were tendered for a massively profitable company, that isn`t going to go under any time soon due to it`s already huge member data base, and if those members who HAVE already paid money to them, share the odd number here or there, and members/sellers get what they are wanting from the site, and word of mouth spreads even more, that is only ever going to be a GOOD thing for the company 

Click to expand...

Oh well, it's fine to do it then - if Preloved are a massively profitable company, they can afford people using their services dishonestly.  Doesn't matter whether it's morally acceptable or not.....


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## MerrySherryRider (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			About as incapable as you are at seeing the company has been around since 1997, and has been bought out this year after a lot of bids were tendered for a massively profitable company, that isn`t going to go under any time soon due to it`s already huge member data base, and if those members who HAVE already paid money to them, share the odd number here or there, and members/sellers get what they are wanting from the site, and word of mouth spreads even more, that is only ever going to be a GOOD thing for the company 

Click to expand...

That is not a justifiable argument. We can all think of a good reason for not paying our dues. I really don't want to pay bank charges, the banks make more than enough money from me already.


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## undergroundoli (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			About as incapable as you are at seeing the company has been around since 1997, and has been bought out this year after a lot of bids were tendered for a massively profitable company, that isn`t going to go under any time soon due to it`s already huge member data base, and if those members who HAVE already paid money to them, share the odd number here or there, and members/sellers get what they are wanting from the site, and word of mouth spreads even more, that is only ever going to be a GOOD thing for the company 

Click to expand...

Out of interest if the company was struggling would it still be ok? How much profit does a company need to be posting for it to be ok to do them out of a fiver?

ETA cross posted with about a million other people.


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## Asha (2 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Poor puddy tat. She needs a couple of teeth out. Vet has quoted between £250 - £400 ! Think it's only ever cost me around £140 max. Even that was dearer than the filly having her wolf teeth out. 
Perhaps daughter take the service and not pay

Click to expand...

Blimey Charlie that is expensive, think I'm in the wrong job!

You could drop puddy tat off at the vets, pretend she's a stray and suggest if they fix her teeth you would adopt her ? 

Hope both the puddy tat and your wallet gets better soon


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			About as incapable as you are at seeing the company has been around since 1997, and has been bought out this year after a lot of bids were tendered for a massively profitable company, that isn`t going to go under any time soon due to it`s already huge member data base, and if those members who HAVE already paid money to them, share the odd number here or there, and members/sellers get what they are wanting from the site, and word of mouth spreads even more, that is only ever going to be a GOOD thing for the company 

Click to expand...

You take the biscuit for self delusion and self justification, I'll give you that!

Can you tell us if you feel the same way about nicking five quid's worth of food from a big profitable company like Waitrose and giving it to a beggar in the street who asks for it?

I'm sure he'll tell people how tasty it was and encourage people to buy more from them


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## MerrySherryRider (2 July 2014)

Asha said:



			Blimey Charlie that is expensive, think I'm in the wrong job!

You could drop puddy tat off at the vets, pretend she's a stray and suggest if they fix her teeth you would adopt her ? 

Hope both the puddy tat and your wallet gets better soon
		
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Well, she's actually just been rehomed by my daughter, perhaps it was because she needed her teeth doing ? Ah well.


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You take the biscuit for self delusion and self justification, I'll give you that!

Can you tell us if you feel the same way about nicking five quid's worth of food from a big profitable company like Waitrose and giving it to a beggar in the street who asks for it?

I'm sure he'll tell people how tasty it was and encourage people to buy more from them 

Click to expand...

No, but i`d BUY it like I have done and give it him ...... suppose that`s wrong too in your eyes


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Oh well, it's fine to do it then - if Preloved are a massively profitable company, they can afford people using their services dishonestly.  Doesn't matter whether it's morally acceptable or not.....
		
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But who decides what is morally right or wrong? You? People on this thread? Your church? your religion? Society? ... as i`ve said, people are people ... Will I share a number, yes, would I physically steal, no, or course not. I found a wallet once, with a hell of a lot of money in it, I handed it in. I found a tenner on a remote bridle path and I kept it. You go with what feels right to you ...


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			No, but i`d BUY it like I have done and give it him ...... suppose that`s wrong too in your eyes 

Click to expand...

Why would I think that was wrong?

You really are completely unable to understand that you did not own that number to pass it on to anyone else, aren't you? Fascinating. We are wired very differently!

PS I'd have given the tenner to a horse charity.


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## Asha (2 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Well, she's actually just been rehomed by my daughter, perhaps it was because she needed her teeth doing ? Ah well.
		
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Really,  I was joking that's a poor show, at least she's in a good home now. Good luck puddy tat x


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			We are wired very differently!
PS I'd have given the tenner to a horse charity
		
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We are, I am unique, just like everybody else  .... 

I used it to buy dinner for myself and the 2 friends who were hacking with me that day.


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## Leo Walker (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You take the biscuit for self delusion and self justification, I'll give you that!

Can you tell us if you feel the same way about nicking five quid's worth of food from a big profitable company like Waitrose and giving it to a beggar in the street who asks for it?

I'm sure he'll tell people how tasty it was and encourage people to buy more from them 

Click to expand...

Yes  But I dont because I'd risk a criminal record. I could give that homeless person food in a different way. And also because Waitrose has paid for that food, unlike PL where they dont pay for anything and that information is given away for free after 7days. Waitrose doesnt give their food away after 7days. They bin it, even when that homeless person would be really glad of it.

No one is stealing anything, they are just jumping the que and in a lot of instances some careful googling will get their details off a free site. 

A lot of people are clearly very upset. They would be better upset about some welfare issues and venting their spleen doing something about that surely??


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## alainax (2 July 2014)

I'm actually a bit shocked that preloved charges, since it is already covered in corporate adverts, it's surely making  a mint from them. It's the way fb et al make their money after all. 

As a seller it seems kinda counter productive that pre loved deliberately limit your potential audience, In order for them the make some more doe. Clever of them I guess though, a double pronged approach to making money. I wonder what they do with their big data too... 

As for if she should have, or have not asked for the number, I guess it really makes no odds. Preloved don't care who buys the item. Preloved got thier fiver, got big bucks from the corporate ads targeting the buyer, seller, middle man and everyone In between( probably made more than a fiver from hits from this thread alone!).. 

the sellar sold the item, and likely both the seller and buyer will be back to use the site again. Pre loved can't really lose here! Sure.. What if everyone shares the numbers... Preloveds viewer and site stats increase ten fold, ramping up the corporate ad revenue, win win! Could possibly be why they don't have the no sharing rule explicitly on their website. They are certainly not daft!


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## Moomin1 (2 July 2014)

FrankieCob said:



			Yes  But I dont because I'd risk a criminal record. I could give that homeless person food in a different way. And also because Waitrose has paid for that food, unlike PL where they dont pay for anything and that information is given away for free after 7days. Waitrose doesnt give their food away after 7days. They bin it, even when that homeless person would be really glad of it.

No one is stealing anything, they are just jumping the que and in a lot of instances some careful googling will get their details off a free site. 

A lot of people are clearly very upset. They would be better upset about some welfare issues and venting their spleen doing something about that surely??
		
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Oh, I don't need to spend any more time concerning myself regarding welfare issues than I already do. In fact, it's nice to divert my concerns elsewhere for a change.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			We are, I am unique, just like everybody else  .... 

I used it to buy dinner for myself and the 2 friends who were hacking with me that day.
		
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£3.33 each for lunch? Last of the big spenders  Bag of chips and a bottle of dandelion and burdock?


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## MerrySherryRider (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			No, but i`d BUY it like I have done and give it him ...... suppose that`s wrong too in your eyes 

Click to expand...

Did you know that in some states of America you'd be breaking the law ? The Food Sharing Laws make it illegal to give food to the hungry and the homeless. Incredible but true. Sometimes people really don't know what's right and what's wrong.
I used to think everyone knew the difference.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

alainax said:



			I'm actually a bit shocked that preloved charges, since it is already covered in corporate adverts, it's surely making  a mint from them. It's the way fb et al make their money after all. 

As a seller it seems kinda counter productive that pre loved deliberately limit your potential audience, In order for them the make some more doe. Clever of them I guess though, a double pronged approach to making money. I wonder what they do with their big data too... 

As for if she should have, or have not asked for the number, I guess it really makes no odds. Preloved don't care who buys the item. Preloved got thier fiver, got big bucks from the corporate ads targeting the buyer, seller, middle man and everyone I between... the sellar sold the item, and likely both the seller and buyer will be back to use the site again. Pre loved can't really lose here! Sure.. What if everyone shares the numbers... Preloveds viewer and site stats increase ten fold, ramping up the corporate add revenue, win win!
		
Click to expand...


You seriously believe that preloved don't pay anything to host and administer a big website???????????

It is NOT  a win win, they lost a fiver that someone should have paid.


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## DJ (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			£3.33 each for lunch? Last of the big spenders  Bag of chips and a bottle of dandelion and burdock?
		
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Close .... £2.95 for the most gorgeous ham salad sarnie with garnish, in a lovely little country pub ... one of my other friends bought the drinks


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## undergroundoli (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			But who decides what is morally right or wrong? You? People on this thread? Your church? your religion? Society? ... as i`ve said, people are people ... Will I share a number, yes, would I physically steal, no, or course not. I found a wallet once, with a hell of a lot of money in it, I handed it in. I found a tenner on a remote bridle path and I kept it. You go with what feels right to you ...
		
Click to expand...

People are always doing things they feel are morally justifiable and then finding that society disagrees so fundamentally that the are laws against it. Piracy & shoplifting (as FrankieCob knows) are prime examples. 

FC have you heard of FoodCycle? I think it would interest you. I know Waitrose does donate food to my local branch (to be fair to them, which I hate being).


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## alainax (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You seriously believe that preloved don't pay anything to host and administer a big website???????????

It is NOT  a win win, they lost a fiver that someone should have paid.
		
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Don't be silly! I never said that at any point.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

alainax said:



			Don't be silly! I never said that at any point.
		
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You did. You said Waitrose have paid for the food on their shelves but the information on preloved had cost them nothing. Either that our I completely misunderstood your post.


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## alainax (2 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You did. You said Waitrose have paid for the food on their shelves but the information on preloved had cost them nothing. Either that our I completely misunderstood your post.
		
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Seems you very much did.


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

DCJACE said:



			Close .... £2.95 for the most gorgeous ham salad sarnie with garnish, in a lovely little country pub ... one of my other friends bought the drinks 

Click to expand...

Oh yes, on brown?  Send me one over, I haven't eaten all day


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## cptrayes (2 July 2014)

alainax said:



			Seems you very much did.
		
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Oooooooooooooooooops!

I was replying to frankiecob.

So rreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee   !!!


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## OldNag (2 July 2014)

I am just amazed that it has got to 170 posts without a single mention of popcorn. 

FWIW I wouldn't give out a number from Preloved. The way I see it, if you want the number you wait or you pay the £5 a year.


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## Ebenezer_Scrooge (3 July 2014)

This thread is still going???? !!! Old Nag would you like salty, sweet or butter popcorn???


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## Illusion100 (3 July 2014)

Multi-million pound businesses tend to be founded/run by savvy people and/or advisors that are fully aware their system may be 'abused'. Also it is not unheard of for people in this status to dabble/revel in fraudulent activity themselves. There are always two sides to a coin.

If people choose to run this kind of business and don't think people will cheat them out of money, that they will experience monetary loss and won't be able to prevent it, fail to insure their business against loss etc, then perhaps it isn't their vocation. 

Has what the OP and her willingly co-operative friend did been dishonest? I think not, the information was permitted for one copy. One copy was taken and given to the OP. Did the individual that initially obtained the single copy pay for membership, yes. I believe that complies with Preloved rules.

The nastiness on this thread has been prolific, however by experience on this forum, not unexpected. 

Each and everyone of us has personal issues we have to deal with. If we want a less dishonest world, the best place to start is by being nicer to each other. 

Edited to say: Old Nag, I started on the Choc Ices at page 6, my waistline will not be happy in the morning!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (3 July 2014)

Illusion100 said:



			Multi-million pound businesses tend to be founded/run by savvy people and/or advisors that are fully aware their system may be 'abused'. Also it is not unheard of for people in this status to dabble/revel in fraudulent activity themselves. There are always two sides to a coin.

If people choose to run this kind of business and don't think people will cheat them out of money, that they will experience monetary loss and won't be able to prevent it, fail to insure their business against loss etc, then perhaps it isn't their vocation. 


Each and everyone of us has personal issues we have to deal with. If we want a less dishonest world, the best place to start is by being nicer to each other. 

!
		
Click to expand...

All these posts from people who obviously don't have a business: I have a business , it is not possible to insure against unscrupulous behaviour., any insurance costs time and money.  Last year I had four defaults, those costs have to be born by the honest people who paid for the goods and services they received,  or you could say I have to use my time and money to provide these cheating scum with my goods and services free of charge, and then have to spend even more  time and trouble attempting to get the money back. 
Many small businesses go under because creditors just walk away, or the owners give up because it removes any job satisfaction, so much easier to flip burghers in Mac Donalds than using one's own capital and labour to build a successful business only to be cheated by people who see it as their "right" to exploit weakness.


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## OldNag (3 July 2014)

Ebenezer_Scrooge said:



			This thread is still going???? !!! Old Nag would you like salty, sweet or butter popcorn???
		
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oooh any will do, ta


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## OldNag (3 July 2014)

Illusion100 said:



			Multi-million pound businesses tend to be founded/run by savvy people and/or advisors that are fully aware their system may be 'abused'. Also it is not unheard of for people in this status to dabble/revel in fraudulent activity themselves. There are always two sides to a coin.

If people choose to run this kind of business and don't think people will cheat them out of money, that they will experience monetary loss and won't be able to prevent it, fail to insure their business against loss etc, then perhaps it isn't their vocation. 

Has what the OP and her willingly co-operative friend did been dishonest? I think not, the information was permitted for one copy. One copy was taken and given to the OP. Did the individual that initially obtained the single copy pay for membership, yes. I believe that complies with Preloved rules.

The nastiness on this thread has been prolific, however by experience on this forum, not unexpected. 

Each and everyone of us has personal issues we have to deal with. If we want a less dishonest world, the best place to start is by being nicer to each other. 

Edited to say: Old Nag, I started on the Choc Ices at page 6, my waistline will not be happy in the morning!
		
Click to expand...

Don't see how that makes it right . I run a business. Yes I do  expect people will sometimes diddle me, and they have,  but it doesn't make it acceptable...

Choc ices .... now you're talking!


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

Illusion100 said:



			Multi-million pound businesses tend to be founded/run by savvy people and/or advisors that are fully aware their system may be 'abused'. Also it is not unheard of for people in this status to dabble/revel in fraudulent activity themselves. There are always two sides to a coin.

If people choose to run this kind of business and don't think people will cheat them out of money, that they will experience monetary loss and won't be able to prevent it, fail to insure their business against loss etc, then perhaps it isn't their vocation. 

Has what the OP and her willingly co-operative friend did been dishonest? I think not, the information was permitted for one copy. One copy was taken and given to the OP. Did the individual that initially obtained the single copy pay for membership, yes. I believe that complies with Preloved rules.

The nastiness on this thread has been prolific, however by experience on this forum, not unexpected. 

Each and everyone of us has personal issues we have to deal with. If we want a less dishonest world, the best place to start is by being nicer to each other. 

Edited to say: Old Nag, I started on the Choc Ices at page 6, my waistline will not be happy in the morning!
		
Click to expand...

I despair of where society os going that there are so many people contributing to this thread who are simply unable to see that was has happened was immoral. I understand why they would condone it, but not to even see that it is wrong?

What an incredible argument. It's ok to shop lift because we all pay higher prices for goods in the shops to allow for the 3-5 % that walks out the door. Oh, and some business leaders steal, so that makes it all right to do the same.

Clearly you have no trouble with avoiding paying five pounds that was due, can you tell us where your sense of morality does kick in and tell you it's wrong?  Ten, fifty, a hundred? More, depending on the circumstances???


PS it is possible to be nice to people and not steal from businesses at the same time


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## Flame_ (3 July 2014)

khalswitz said:



			Can I just add that people regularly look up BS records for other people on HHO, and it has never caused a riot like this - and BS membership is much more expensive. Surely that should be even worse?
		
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Nope, the exact opposite from my POV. It £5 for Preloved membership. £5!!! Surely embarrassing to go scrounging off strangers who've paid it, presumably for the same reason of wanting early access to advert numbers, to avoid paying it yourself? 

To me, £5 is a very fair charge to access preloved, whatever BS charge to access information sounds like a p take tbh, so I think fair play to people who won't pay that and request it from people who will have joined to get much more out of the membership. i.e. Showjumpers.


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## khalswitz (3 July 2014)

Flame_ said:



			Nope, the exact opposite from my POV. It £5 for Preloved membership. £5!!! Surely embarrassing to go scrounging off strangers who've paid it, presumably for the same reason of wanting early access to advert numbers, to avoid paying it yourself? 

To me, £5 is a very fair charge to access preloved, whatever BS charge to access information sounds like a p take tbh, so I think fair play to people who won't pay that and request it from people who will have joined to get much more out of the membership. i.e. Showjumpers.
		
Click to expand...

See, the same legal aspect applies to both - the information is owned by the company and you pay to access it. It is just the same for BS as for preloved, and justifying one and not the other throws up the same moral question as 'would you shop lift'. BS has a relatively cheap non competing membership for access to that information, so why should it be ok to steal their information but not preloved's?

I personally agree the fiver should just be paid, not enough to get in a tizz but enough that id pay my own and refuse to give out numbers to non payers. However the fact that this is reprehensible when giving out BS record details absolutely astounds me. It is exactly the same thing - just because BS is more expensive and you feel their prices are too high doesn't mean that you aren't stealing from them. Personally I think Louis Vuitton handbags are too expensive - but I wouldn't walk out of a shop with one.


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## misskk88 (3 July 2014)

JEEEZZZZZZZZZZ.

Yes £5 is a fair charge in order to access numbers. But to bring some peoples character into question and make irrelevant comparisons over asking for a number is absolutely shocking! Please dismount from your high horses.

Can this thread just end with the summary that some feel it is both immoral and/or illegal, and others feel that it is no big deal? Done!


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## Flame_ (3 July 2014)

khalswitz said:



			See, the same legal aspect applies to both - the information is owned by the company and you pay to access it. It is just the same for BS as for preloved, and justifying one and not the other throws up the same moral question as 'would you shop lift'. BS has a relatively cheap non competing membership for access to that information, so why should it be ok to steal their information but not preloved's?

I personally agree the fiver should just be paid, not enough to get in a tizz but enough that id pay my own and refuse to give out numbers to non payers. However the fact that this is reprehensible when giving out BS record details absolutely astounds me. It is exactly the same thing - just because BS is more expensive and you feel their prices are too high doesn't mean that you aren't stealing from them. Personally I think Louis Vuitton handbags are too expensive - but I wouldn't walk out of a shop with one.
		
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Well I'm not on the page of "all stealing is wrong, end of". I wouldn't do it in case I got in trouble lol, but Robin Hood has my full support.


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## thewonderhorse (3 July 2014)

misskk88 said:



			JEEEZZZZZZZZZZ.

Yes £5 is a fair charge in order to access numbers. But to bring some peoples character into question and make irrelevant comparisons over asking for a number is absolutely shocking! Please dismount from your high horses.

Can this thread just end with the summary that some feel it is both immoral and/or illegal, and others feel that it is no big deal? Done! 

Click to expand...

Yes agreed. Personally I think its a bit of an overreaction. Poor OP


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## khalswitz (3 July 2014)

Flame_ said:



			Well I'm not on the page of "all stealing is wrong, end of". I wouldn't do it in case I got in trouble lol, but Robin Hood has my full support.
		
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In that case, why be bothered about preloved membership? They likely make as much if not more than BS? 

The Robin Hood analogy falls a little flat IMO as the idea was to steal from the rich to give to the poor... This is just stealing. It's the brass necked who are gaining, not the poor.

And BS is definitely not a sheriff of Nottingham type... Their prize money is much better than BE or BD.


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## Moomin1 (3 July 2014)

It always makes me chuckle this forum - the minute people dare to voice a strong opinion they get called 'nasty'...


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## webble (3 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Poor puddy tat. She needs a couple of teeth out. Vet has quoted between £250 - £400 ! Think it's only ever cost me around £140 max. Even that was dearer than the filly having her wolf teeth out. 
Perhaps daughter take the service and not pay

Click to expand...

Crikey thats a lot mine had 11 teeth out and it was only (!) £190!


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## Zero00000 (3 July 2014)

Ive emailed preloved, and asked them outright whether it breaks terms/laws etc. 

I also think the 'Would you shoplift' debate, to be way off the mark, as the service was paid for, and another person has asked for it, I'm a very giving person, and often go in shops and buy food and drink for the homeless,


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## PaddyMonty (3 July 2014)

khalswitz said:



			See, the same legal aspect applies to both - the information is owned by the company and you pay to access it. It is just the same for BS as for preloved,
		
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One major difference. If you ring BS the nice ladies in the office will give you a horses record over the phone for FREE.


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## Moomin1 (3 July 2014)

Zero00000 said:



			Ive emailed preloved, and asked them outright whether it breaks terms/laws etc. 

I also think the 'Would you shoplift' debate, to be way off the mark, as the service was paid for, and another person has asked for it, I'm a very giving person, and often go in shops and buy food and drink for the homeless,
		
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Whether it is written in or not, people are still brass necked tight assed cheeky so and so's for not paying and asking other people who have to provide info.


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## risky business (3 July 2014)

What a thread. 

I'm glad I don't use preloved myself, seems like there's a lot of right and wrongs surrounding it...


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## khalswitz (3 July 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			One major difference. If you ring BS the nice ladies in the office will give you a horses record over the phone for FREE.
		
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That's useful to know. But why on EARTH then do so many people come on ere asking for records to be looked up? Just blooming phone them yourself then!!!

Similar to waiting several days for a phone number to appear on the preloved website to free users I guess - just easier and quicker to cheat.


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## Moomin1 (3 July 2014)

khalswitz said:



			That's useful to know. But why on EARTH then do so many people come on ere asking for records to be looked up? Just blooming phone them yourself then!!!

Similar to waiting several days for a phone number to appear on the preloved website to free users I guess - just easier and quicker to cheat.
		
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Probably because they don't want to 'waste' their phone bill, so will ask some other mug to waste theirs instead lol!! ;-)


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

Zero00000 said:



			Ive emailed preloved, and asked them outright whether it breaks terms/laws etc. 

I also think the 'Would you shoplift' debate, to be way off the mark, as the service was paid for, and another person has asked for it, I'm a very giving person, and often go in shops and buy food and drink for the homeless,
		
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Great, let us know what they say.  I know that they have previously requested hho to remove similar threads, so it will be interesting to hear their response.

Leave the food argument behind and consider something where you keep the use of what you have bought as well as giving it away. Do you copy cds for your friends?  Because this wasn't a physical product handed over to another user, both users have the product, early access to seller details, and only one has paid for it.


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

risky business said:



			What a thread. 

I'm glad I don't use preloved myself, seems like there's a lot of right and wrongs surrounding it...
		
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It's a great site and quite simple. If an ad is new, you can only get the seller contact details If you pay a year's subscription of only five quid, or blag it off someone else.


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## FionaM12 (3 July 2014)

Flame_ said:



			Well I'm not on the page of "all stealing is wrong, end of". I wouldn't do it in case I got in trouble lol, but Robin Hood has my full support.
		
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Good point. To me there's a difference between what's moral and what's the law, although there's a big overlap.

It's illegal for a homeless, hungry person to take an out-of-date packaged sandwich from a supermarket skip, but it's clearly not immoral. Theft isn't always "wrong" IMO, although it mostly is.

And I do think in truth most people's motivation for following the law is fear of getting caught, not morality.


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## Moomin1 (3 July 2014)

FionaM12 said:



			Good point. To me there's a difference between what's moral and what's the law, although there's a big overlap.

It's illegal for a homeless, hungry person to take an out-of-date packaged sandwich from a supermarket skip, but it's clearly not immoral. Theft isn't always "wrong" IMO, although it mostly is.

And I do think in truth most people's motivation for following the law is fear of getting caught, not morality. 

Click to expand...

It could be argued that the person who gives the Preloved info is morally of good intention...however the person who asks for it is not IMO.


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## MerrySherryRider (3 July 2014)

FionaM12 said:



			Good point. To me there's a difference between what's moral and what's the law, although there's a big overlap.

It's illegal for a homeless, hungry person to take an out-of-date packaged sandwich from a supermarket skip, but it's clearly not immoral. Theft isn't always "wrong" IMO, although it mostly is.

And I do think in truth most people's motivation for following the law is fear of getting caught, not morality. 

Click to expand...

Fear of getting caught is the reason for some people but I don't think its the primary reason for most people. That's a rather cynical point of view. I do believe that most honest people have a sense of morality.
If people with integrity don't outnumber the one's with a skewed sense of morals, society would implode.


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## Spring Feather (3 July 2014)

I do get where people are coming from here and I kind of agree with them that it is a form of stealing.  However on thinking about it, I know I've done this many many times.  I'm a member of AQHA and I have found out information for friends about certain horses because I have easy and quick Internet online access to this information and as they're not members, they don't.  Am I doing something immoral/illegal?  I don't think so as anyone can email AQHA or phone the Amarillo office and they will be able to get the same information from the staff there; they just can't go online to get that info unless they pay a membership fee.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (3 July 2014)

Theft??? Is the heat affecting some members? The service fee has been paid, how its used afterwards is up to the 'owner'. If i buy a sandwich & give half away, thats my choice. The recipient hasn't 'stolen' anything.


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## Moomin1 (3 July 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			Theft??? Is the heat affecting some members? The service fee has been paid, how its used afterwards is up to the 'owner'. If i buy a sandwich & give half away, thats my choice. The recipient hasn't 'stolen' anything.
		
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The sandwich argument is completely invalid. By giving the half sandwich away, it means you are not able to indulge in that half sandwich - only one person is, and there is no risk of it being passed on, and on and on again.  Information passed on clearly can be recycled amongst many people. I am not saying people will inevitably do so, but there is a fee for a reason, therefore it should be paid.


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## SpringArising (3 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Do you think it's ok to post a private number publically on another random forum ? Really ? 

Would it be ok then to link your private number on a fetish forum ?
		
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But the numbers on Preloved are public already, so your question is irrelevant. If I had put my number on Preloved for all to see in the first place, I wouldn't give a rat's arse if it was seen by someone not on the site.


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## shannonandtay (3 July 2014)

Is it only me that finds this post boring, done to death and petty, oh my god why am I even replying  

Is it morally wrong - probably
Is it criminally wrong - maybe but whose going to take it further? No one.
Does anyone really care - yes they obviously do but most don't.


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			But the numbers on Preloved are public already, so your question is irrelevant. If I had put my number on Preloved for all to see in the first place, I wouldn't give a rat's arse if it was seen by someone not on the site.
		
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Not so. The numbers can only be seen by someone whose ip address can be traced, unless it is published as it has been on this forum or verbally.


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

shannonandtay said:



			Is it only me that finds this post boring, done to death and petty, oh my god why am I even replying  

.
		
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See my other thread


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## FionaM12 (3 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			It could be argued that the person who gives the Preloved info is morally of good intention...however the person who asks for it is not IMO.
		
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I think that's a fair point. One's motivation is to do someone a favour, the other's just on the scrounge and avoiding paying their due! 



MerrySherryRider said:



			Fear of getting caught is the reason for some people but I don't think its the primary reason for most people. That's a rather cynical point of view. I do believe that most honest people have a sense of morality.
If people with integrity don't outnumber the one's with a skewed sense of morals, society would implode.
		
Click to expand...

I was clear that I'm separating morals and the law. My motivation for doing what i believe to be right is a moral choice. Abiding by the law is more about following rules, even when the rules don't seem to make sense.


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## GSLS (3 July 2014)

agree. Some people are soooo mean!  x 



shannonandtay said:



			Is it only me that finds this post boring, done to death and petty, oh my god why am I even replying  

Is it morally wrong - probably
Is it criminally wrong - maybe but whose going to take it further? No one.
Does anyone really care - yes they obviously do but most don't.
		
Click to expand...


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## epsilon (3 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I can't show you the precise wording that says you must not shoplift from marks and Spencer, but you don't do that, I hope?To
		
Click to expand...

It's under the Theft Act where it is an offence to dishonestly appropriate property belong to another, with the intention permanently deprive the other of it!


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## epsilon (3 July 2014)

Ebenezer_Scrooge said:



			This thread is still going???? !!! Old Nag would you like salty, sweet or butter popcorn???
		
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I'll have salty please! )


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

epsilon said:



			It's under the Theft Act where it is an offence to dishonestly appropriate property belong to another, with the intention permanently deprive the other of it!
		
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And I am sure that there is wording in another act that makes it illegal to appropriate the data of another person where that has commercial value. Permanent deprivation can apply only to physical goods. I meant, of course, in m+s' s contract with their customers.


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## SpringArising (3 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			And I am sure that there is wording in another act that makes it illegal to appropriate the data of another person where that has commercial value. Permanent deprivation can apply only to physical goods. I meant, of course, in m+s' s contract with their customers.
		
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I do feel like you're just clutching at straws now. Throughout the entire thread you have dodged posting any official Preloved statement regarding sharing info; presumably because you found no such thing. But of course, now we shall go back to your favourite "But would you steal from a shop?" question! 

FWIW, I'm neither here nor there on the subject. OP just seemed to get a lot of unnecessary stick from you, which presumably stemmed from your boredom/lack of [insert appropriate word].


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## JennBags (3 July 2014)

No she's not clutching at straws. CPT doesn't have to be an expert in contract law in order to state her opinion.

It is immoral, and I am actually quite stunned that some people don't see it like that. 

I work with a lot of techy-start-up companies, and I can tell you they put millions of their own money, as well as venture capital money, into these businesses. Someone posted how the entrepreneurs are all on the fiddle as well, so that makes it right. Well, not in my (extensive) experience, they are on the whole fabulous business people who work their socks off to build up a new & exciting venture. 

In order to gain access to early adverts on Preloved, you become a member and join for £5. Five measly pounds.  I expect there are other benefits, I don't know, it's not a website I'm familiar with.  If you are obtaining that information without becoming a member, you are not abiding by the "spirit" of the website.  This may not necessarily be illegal, or even in contravention of specific rules, but if it's against the spirit of the website, then it's surely immoral?  I honestly fail to see how people cannot see that, to me it's completely black and white.


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## wildwest (3 July 2014)

JennBags said:



			No she's not clutching at straws. CPT doesn't have to be an expert in contract law in order to state her opinion.

It is immoral, and I am actually quite stunned that some people don't see it like that. 

I work with a lot of techy-start-up companies, and I can tell you they put millions of their own money, as well as venture capital money, into these businesses. Someone posted how the entrepreneurs are all on the fiddle as well, so that makes it right. Well, not in my (extensive) experience, they are on the whole fabulous business people who work their socks off to build up a new & exciting venture. 

In order to gain access to early adverts on Preloved, you become a member and join for £5. Five measly pounds.  I expect there are other benefits, I don't know, it's not a website I'm familiar with.  If you are obtaining that information without becoming a member, you are not abiding by the "spirit" of the website.  This may not necessarily be illegal, or even in contravention of specific rules, but if it's against the spirit of the website, then it's surely immoral?  I honestly fail to see how people cannot see that, to me it's completely black and white.
		
Click to expand...

this exactly


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## SpringArising (3 July 2014)

JennBags said:



			No she's not clutching at straws. CPT doesn't have to be an expert in contract law in order to state her opinion.

It is immoral, and I am actually quite stunned that some people don't see it like that. 

I work with a lot of techy-start-up companies, and I can tell you they put millions of their own money, as well as venture capital money, into these businesses. Someone posted how the entrepreneurs are all on the fiddle as well, so that makes it right. Well, not in my (extensive) experience, they are on the whole fabulous business people who work their socks off to build up a new & exciting venture. 

In order to gain access to early adverts on Preloved, you become a member and join for £5. Five measly pounds.  I expect there are other benefits, I don't know, it's not a website I'm familiar with.  If you are obtaining that information without becoming a member, you are not abiding by the "spirit" of the website.  This may not necessarily be illegal, or even in contravention of specific rules, but if it's against the spirit of the website, then it's surely immoral?  I honestly fail to see how people cannot see that, to me it's completely black and white.
		
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with your points. What I disagree with is the attitude of some of the people on here, and the way they go about things. Hey ho, such is life and it would be boring without a few odd-jobs here and there. Thank you for the inside tech info; I've been in the business for a little while now, but it's always good to find people with similar interests!


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## Leo Walker (3 July 2014)

Dont Amazon let you share Kindle books? Surely thats a closer analogy than a sandwich?


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## MerrySherryRider (3 July 2014)

JennBags said:



			No she's not clutching at straws. CPT doesn't have to be an expert in contract law in order to state her opinion.

It is immoral, and I am actually quite stunned that some people don't see it like that. 

I work with a lot of techy-start-up companies, and I can tell you they put millions of their own money, as well as venture capital money, into these businesses. Someone posted how the entrepreneurs are all on the fiddle as well, so that makes it right. Well, not in my (extensive) experience, they are on the whole fabulous business people who work their socks off to build up a new & exciting venture. 

In order to gain access to early adverts on Preloved, you become a member and join for £5. Five measly pounds.  I expect there are other benefits, I don't know, it's not a website I'm familiar with.  If you are obtaining that information without becoming a member, you are not abiding by the "spirit" of the website.  This may not necessarily be illegal, or even in contravention of specific rules, but if it's against the spirit of the website, then it's surely immoral?  I honestly fail to see how people cannot see that, to me it's completely black and white.
		
Click to expand...

Good post.


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## Archangel (3 July 2014)

I found this on the Preloved forum (this is from Preloved themselves)


It would be nice to be able to offer a completely free service but unfortunately it is just not possible to do that and meet the costs of running the site, monitoring it to try to ensure that fraudsters don't take advantage of our members, promoting it to bring as many potential buyers and sellers to the site as possible etc.

We thought long and hard about our membership system. The alternative would either to use aggressive banner advertising, pop ups, interruptive ads etc. which make the site difficult and unpleasant to use, to use a premium rate phone system, or to charge people to place adverts on the site.

Our full membership charge is very modest and lasts a full year so we find that a good proportion of buyers are happy to upgrade, and the few that can't afford this or do not want to pay still have the opportunity to use the site for free.

Once the advert has been on the site for 10 days you will be able to respond to the advert with free membership. The time elapsed is shown in the yellow box to the right of the advert


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## Arzada (3 July 2014)

How does Preloved membership work with couples? Families? Does everyone buy their own membership at £5 per person? Or does eg  one person buy membership and share it with their OH for free? Or is there a couple/family membership option costing more than £5?


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## JennBags (3 July 2014)

Arzada said:



			How does Preloved membership work with couples? Families? Does everyone buy their own membership at £5 per person? Or does eg  one person buy membership and share it with their OH for free? Or is there a couple/family membership option costing more than £5?
		
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I think you're overthinking this a bit :rolleyes3:


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## Elsiecat (3 July 2014)

JennBags said:



			I think you're overthinking this a bit :rolleyes3:
		
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Actually, I don't think that they are.

Surely they're just questioning where this strong moral line starts and where it ends? Can I get a number for my mum or should I tell her to pay her own fiver?


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

FrankieCob said:



			Dont Amazon let you share Kindle books? Surely thats a closer analogy than a sandwich?
		
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No they don't, unless you hand over the physical kindle and deprive yourself of it while someone else has it.


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## Spring Feather (3 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			No they don't, unless you hand over the physical kindle and deprive yourself of it while someone else has it.
		
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Yes they do.  I share an account with my husband and he and I are often reading the same book at the same time.


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

RebelRebel said:



			I found this on the Preloved forum (this is from Preloved themselves)


It would be nice to be able to offer a completely free service but unfortunately it is just not possible to do that and meet the costs of running the site, monitoring it to try to ensure that fraudsters don't take advantage of our members, promoting it to bring as many potential buyers and sellers to the site as possible etc.

We thought long and hard about our membership system. The alternative would either to use aggressive banner advertising, pop ups, interruptive ads etc. which make the site difficult and unpleasant to use, to use a premium rate phone system, or to charge people to place adverts on the site.

Our full membership charge is very modest and lasts a full year so we find that a good proportion of buyers are happy to upgrade, and the few that can't afford this or do not want to pay still have the opportunity to use the site for free.

Once the advert has been on the site for 10 days you will be able to respond to the advert with free membership. The time elapsed is shown in the yellow box to the right of the advert
		
Click to expand...


This this this and this again.

We pay the fee so that none of us have to be inundated with adverts. You don't pay the fee you are, at best, sponging of the rest of us and at worst you are a thief. Pay the damned fiver or wait a few days and risk someone else taking what you want !!!


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			Yes they do.  I share an account with my husband and he and I are often reading the same book at the same time.
		
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Do you have it on two kindles registered to the same user, because I can't share books with my husband's kindle?  I can't even buy him a book for his birthday using my account and put it on his kindle, it has to be bought on HIS account to appear on his kindle.

As far as I can see, what you are doing is the same as copying a paperback for him to read while you are also reading it, i.e. breach of copyright.


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## Spring Feather (3 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Do you have it on two kindles registered to the same user, because I can't share books with my husband's kindle?
		
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We have 3 kindles registered to the same user and we can all read the same book from our individual kindles at the same time.


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## JennBags (3 July 2014)

Elsiecat said:



			Actually, I don't think that they are.

Surely they're just questioning where this strong moral line starts and where it ends? Can I get a number for my mum or should I tell her to pay her own fiver?
		
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The question is more should your mum ask you to get the number, or should she get her own membership? That's where your own personal morals come into it, is it within the spirit of the website? Personally I feel as if passing a number onto your mum wouldn't be a big thing, on an occasional basis. If she was asking you every week, that's a different matter.  Asking a bunch of random strangers on an Internet forum is, though, a completely different matter IMO*


*and if you read CPT's other thread, you'll see that my opinion is the only one that matters and lots of people agree with me, so yah boo sucks


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## Spring Feather (3 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			As far as I can see, what you are doing is the same as copying a paperback for him to read, i.e. breach of copyright.
		
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To your edited bit.  No idea.  We have 3 kindles registered and we buy the books once and all of our kindles will allow us to each read the books at the same time.  Obviously amazon know that there are 3 kindles registered and our kindles certainly do as each kindle points it out to us each time we start a fresh reading session.


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## ribbons (3 July 2014)

With all the bad going on in the world, how are people getting in such a tizz over a fiver. Yes it's morally wrong. That's it though, that's all it is. 
I have a feeling this is an argument for arguments sake.


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## risky business (3 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			It's a great site and quite simple. If an ad is new, you can only get the seller contact details If you pay a year's subscription of only five quid, or blag it off someone else.
		
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Well its funny you should mention blagging it off someone else. I spotted something I wanted on there earlier... Cptrayes be a dear and fetch me the number


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			To your edited bit.  No idea.  We have 3 kindles registered and we buy the books once and all of our kindles will allow us to each read the books at the same time.  Obviously amazon know that there are 3 kindles registered and our kindles certainly do as each kindle points it out to us each time we start a fresh reading session.
		
Click to expand...


So you have ONE Amazon kindle account that you share. That is the same, in my book, pun intended, as copying a book so that someone else can read it at the same time as you do. I have no idea if that is within Amazon's rules, but if it was a paper copy, it would be copyright theft. And as has been made clear by their statement  above, it is certainly not within the spirit of preloved rules.


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

risky business said:



			Well its funny you should mention blagging it off someone else. I spotted something I wanted on there earlier... Cptrayes be a dear and fetch me the number 

Click to expand...

If you haven't worked out yet that nobody who knows me thinks I am a dear, you are a bit off the pace


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## Spring Feather (3 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			So you have ONE Amazon kindle account that you share. That is the same, in my book, pun intended, as copying a book so that someone else can read it at the same time as you do. I have no idea if that is within Amazon's rules, but if it was a paper copy, it would be copyright theft. And as has been made clear by their statement  above, it is certainly not within the spirit of preloved rules.
		
Click to expand...

Our individual kindles are registered on a shared account as I said.  Our membership knows which individual kindle is reading which book.  If we are all reading the same book each individual kindles comes up on screen saying one persons kindle is at page number whatever, and the other persons kindle is at page whatever, and would I like my kindle to sync to one of the others pages.  I click on "no" and "no" and it puts me to the page that it knows my individual kindle is on.


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

ribbons said:



			I have a feeling this is an argument for arguments sake.
		
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And even if that were true, which it's not in my case when discussing creeping immorality in society, but it's true of this particular post, what is the issue with that?

1. It finances the use of this forum for everyone to keep posts going.

2. I and other people find it diverting.

Where's the harm?


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			Our individual kindles are registered on a shared account as I said.  Our membership knows which individual kindle is reading which book.  If we are all reading the same book each individual kindles comes up on screen saying one persons kindle is at page number whatever, and the other persons kindle is at page whatever, and would I like my kindle to sync to one of the others pages.  I click on "no" and "no" and it puts me to the page that it knows my individual kindle is on.
		
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So?

Have you bother to check whether Amazon is happy that three people share one account and read one book simultaneously? I have no idea myself, but as I say, if it was a paper book it's certainly in breach of copyright.

It's completely irrelevant to the preloved argument if Amazon are happy with it, because preloved are not.


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## risky business (3 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			If you haven't worked out yet that nobody who knows me thinks I am a dear, you are a bit off the pace 

Click to expand...

Well that's a shame, looks like I will be nicking some popcorn off someone instead and sitting in on the rest of this thread then 

I think people are taking this thread a little to serious, I don't see anything nasty here just opinions.


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## Moomin1 (3 July 2014)

ribbons said:



			With all the bad going on in the world, how are people getting in such a tizz over a fiver. Yes it's morally wrong. That's it though, that's all it is. 
I have a feeling this is an argument for arguments sake.
		
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I really don't get this point which a few people have made now.  Yes, there are much worse things going on in the world. So....does that mean nobody is entitled to discuss the issue?  In which case, those threads out there about lame horses, kissing spine, welfare issues, behavioural problems, horses being stolen etc shouldn't be discussed either?


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## Spring Feather (3 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			So?

Have you bother to check whether Amazon is happy that three people share one account and read one book simultaneously? I have no idea myself, but as I say, if it was a paper book it's certainly in breach of copyright.

It's completely irrelevant to the preloved argument if Amazon are happy with it, because preloved are not.
		
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I was answering your statement that amazon do not let you read the same book at the same time.  I did not bring up kindle/amazon, my point was simply to tell you that you are wrong and that quite obviously it is allowed as both kindle and amazon know which kindle is reading which book at whichever time and they know which page each kindle is on at any given time because they tell you where the other two kindles are at in the book each time you open a new reading session.


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## Honey08 (3 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I really don't get this point which a few people have made now.  Yes, there are much worse things going on in the world. So....does that mean nobody is entitled to discuss the issue?  In which case, those threads out there about lame horses, kissing spine, welfare issues, behavioural problems, horses being stolen etc shouldn't be discussed either?
		
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Yes,that would make just about everything on HHO not worth discussing, and god help those that want to know what colour numnahs their horses would suit best!

Jennbags (please note correct number of n's included!) you're banging those nails on the head tonight.


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## JennBags (3 July 2014)

LOL honey


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## Flame_ (3 July 2014)

ribbons said:



			With all the bad going on in the world, how are people getting in such a tizz over a fiver. Yes it's morally wrong. That's it though, that's all it is. 
I have a feeling this is an argument for arguments sake.
		
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You think?  Lol.

Its fun though, and a tiny, little bit important. Maybe.


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## ribbons (3 July 2014)

I didn't say anything about not being entitled to discuss any subject whatsoever. I just find this thread amusing in that its being argued so intensely. I get the impression that is to do with so much more than the subject matter.


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## Moomin1 (3 July 2014)

ribbons said:



			I didn't say anything about not being entitled to discuss any subject whatsoever. I just find this thread amusing in that its being argued so intensely. I get the impression that is to do with so much more than the subject matter.
		
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Do you?  I don't - I just think some people feel strongly about the concept that's all.  I can see what some are trying to suggest by it 'only being a fiver, why are you getting het up'...but they are forgetting that it really isn't 'just a fiver'...it's hundreds of thousands of pounds when you account for the amount of people who think it's acceptable to take the info without paying.  It's the wider picture which is the issue here.


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			I was answering your statement that amazon do not let you read the same book at the same time.  I did not bring up kindle/amazon, my point was simply to tell you that you are wrong and that quite obviously it is allowed as both kindle and amazon know which kindle is reading which book at whichever time and they know which page each kindle is on at any given time because they tell you where the other two kindles are at in the book each time you open a new reading session.
		
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SF if it's allowed, then I see no relevance to you introducing the point into this discussion of preloved, sorry.  

And just because Amazon facilitate having the book open at different points on different devices doesn't necessarily mean that they accept different people reading a book at the same time though, have you actually checked the t+cs?

I find it very interesting that it is not even possible to delete a book from one account and transfer it to a second, never mind to pass a copy over and have it on two accounts at the same time. In other words, with an electronic copy, you can't finish the book and hand it to a friend unless you hand over the physical machine that has your account linked to it.


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## Leo Walker (3 July 2014)

SF didnt bring it up, I did. But Amazon allow you to share books to different kindles. You dont have to be related or part of the same organisation, just allow that person to register their kindle on your account as far as I'm aware. And then theres actual books. People lend books all the time. Is that illegal? I dont know, but I do know its common practice


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## risky business (3 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			SF if it's allowed, then I see no relevance to you introducing the point into this discussion of preloved, sorry.  

And just because Amazon facilitate having the book open at different points on different devices doesn't necessarily mean that they accept different people reading a book at the same time though, have you actually checked the t+cs?

I find it very interesting that it is not even possible to delete a book from one account and transfer it to a second, never mind to pass a copy over and have it on two accounts at the same time. In other words, with an electronic copy, you can't finish the book and hand it to a friend unless you hand over the physical machine that has your account linked to it.
		
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I could see how this would work. 

It's the same when you own an ipad and iPhone. Both those devices will be connected to the same account. (my account for example as I own both devices).  So if I download a book on my iPhone it will automatically download the book to my ipad too so I can read my book off all devices connected to that account. It's not relevant to preloved but it explains that you can read one book off two different devices. If I read the book on my phone it saves my page, if I then read on ipad it asks if I'd like to skip to the page I got to on my phone or carry on where it is.

You can't transfer books from different accounts though.


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## undergroundoli (3 July 2014)

ribbons said:



			I didn't say anything about not being entitled to discuss any subject whatsoever. I just find this thread amusing in that its being argued so intensely. I get the impression that is to do with so much more than the subject matter.
		
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Yup, its about Britain's creeping acceptance of immorality. We've got to make a stand, and by god we've made it  



Spring Feather said:



			Yes they do.  I share an account with my husband and he and I are often reading the same book at the same time.
		
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cptrayes said:



			I find it very interesting that it is not even possible to delete a book from one account and transfer it to a second, never mind to pass a copy over and have it on two accounts at the same time. In other words, with an electronic copy, you can't finish the book and hand it to a friend unless you hand over the physical machine that has your account linked to it.
		
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The rules on sharing books are different in the US & UK. People with Kindles registered in the States can buy books for other Kindle users, and can lend them to friends. The lender cant read the book while the borrower has it. I thought they'd introduced this feature here?


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## ribbons (3 July 2014)

Just for the record, I actually agree with you. I don't think its fair and anyone wanting info from the site should pay up to get it.
What I'm finding interesting is that several times before, some one has asked on here for a pre loved member to get them a number and its never resulted in a similar response. Maybe it depends who's asking.


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

undergroundoli said:



			The rules on sharing books are different in the US & UK. People with Kindles registered in the States can buy books for other Kindle users, and can lend them to friends. The lender cant read the book while the borrower has it. I thought they'd introduced this feature here?
		
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Well that explains it. Thanks!  Yes I'm UK, sf is US


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## cptrayes (3 July 2014)

ribbons said:



			Just for the record, I actually agree with you. I don't think its fair and anyone wanting info from the site should pay up to get it.
What I'm finding interesting is that several times before, some one has asked on here for a pre loved member to get them a number and its never resulted in a similar response. Maybe it depends who's asking.
		
Click to expand...

speaking for myself, it has nothing whatsoever with who asked, it is simply the first time I have seen a thread of this kind and I will respond the same way every time. The suggestion that I would react differently to another user is, to be frank, a little insulting. It could be my best friend and I'd still tell them to pay the five quid.


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## undergroundoli (3 July 2014)

I think paying the television licence is the closest analogy. If I don't pay but I do watch TV I'm benefiting from a service I'm not paying for. 

I'm not depriving anyone else of the chance to watch Eastenders, but why should I get something for free when everyone else is paying for it? If everyone stopped paying the licence there would be no Eastenders, which I admittedly can't get upset about, but plenty would. 

Borrowing preloved numbers, or breaking (most) traffic laws, or not paying the Licence Fee only benefits the people who do it because most of us don't. It is freeloading, pure and simple. Someone asked who gets to decide what is immoral. If you are benefiting from breaking rules BECAUSE other people are keeping them I think that is a clear sign you shouldn't do it.


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## MadJ (4 July 2014)

Why does Preloved charge when Trade-it doesn't?
They both have irritating adverts.


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## Mike007 (4 July 2014)

saw this post ages ago and didnt look, it is now on page 13! anyone care to give a short explanation of what all this *******s is about


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## MadJ (4 July 2014)

Mike007 said:



			saw this post ages ago and didnt look, it is now on page 13! anyone care to give a short explanation of what all this *******s is about
		
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Preloved to Kindles with an added bit of BS in the middle.


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## Red-1 (4 July 2014)

Oooh, I have been stalking this thread for a while, was a bit shocked at some reactions, and amazed at others.

I would not have asked for the number off a forum, but if a friend knew I was looking for a .....was it a Cub saddle???....... and they found one on Preloved, thought of me, and wrote the number down for me that I guess I would accept it. 

Rather than looking at Shoplifting for an analogy I think that BD tests would be a better comparison.

I mainly do BE, and they print the tests available for all on the web site and in the rule book. BD do not, you have to pay. BD do not have them available on the web site, so I usually download mine from DRessage Diagrams, who pay BD a licence fee for the intellectual property. I resent paying as I believe the tests should be available to members, after paying my registration, my horses' registration, my entry. To pay for the bloomin test as well seems like a Tax! But, it is the rules, so I do.

I have a few times, both personally, and once on this forum, been asked for a test. All times I refuse to scan, copy, write out, as I am aware that I would be breaching copyright. In fact on this forum about a month ago I directed the OP to the Dressage Diagrams site, only for someone else to write the test out further down the thread.

To me this was also dishonest. It was not their intellectual property to give. 

Does that make me....... small minded, care less about welfare, an expert on a Kindle, a shoplifter, a Waitrose fan, moralistic, not give to charity, a fraudster, like popcorn, likely to be doing gymnastics while sitting on an uncomfortable seat (STRIKER's post has been deleted now I see), an expert on Feline Dentistry or an individual? Wow, this thread is like the world of individuals in one thread.

The strange part is, although I would not scan a BD test or copy, or type it out, I feel quite comfortable to take my (paid for) copy and read it to a client........ That seems entirely appropriate to me.


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## Mongoose11 (4 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Err, I've shown compassion. I said I am sorry to hear of the predicament. However, if the thread offends people that much, then why bother posting?
		
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I couldn't give two hoots about preloved or some lady giving another lady a number despite not paying for membership. I only came in because it had to be a decent read having got to 20 odd pages. It isn't a decent read for anyone starting at the back end - so don't bother. 

The only shocking thing to come out of this thread is that someone could repeatedly refer to stage four cancer as a 'predicament'. Unbelievable.


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			I couldn't give two hoots about preloved or some lady giving another lady a number despite not paying for membership. I only came in because it had to be a decent read having got to 20 odd pages. It isn't a decent read for anyone starting at the back end - so don't bother. 

The only shocking thing to come out of this thread is that someone could repeatedly refer to stage four cancer as a 'predicament'. Unbelievable.
		
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Well what wording would you prefer to be used then? Dear me, I really don't think it matters what word is used


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Well what wording would you prefer to be used then? Dear me, I really don't think it matters what word is used
		
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Oh and were have I 'repeatedly' used the word?!


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## Honey08 (4 July 2014)

Mike007 said:



			saw this post ages ago and didnt look, it is now on page 13! anyone care to give a short explanation of what all this *******s is about
		
Click to expand...

Just pick a page, any page, it keeps repeating!  You don't need to read much.


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## Mongoose11 (4 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Err, I've shown compassion. I said I am sorry to hear of the predicament. However, if the thread offends people that much, then why bother posting?
		
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Moomin1 said:



			I haven't - it wasn't me who initially discussed anything with Teabiscuit on here. That is my only point I have made to her.

I do feel for TB and her OH, however many many of us on here have bad predicaments going on in life, which we may not wish to discuss..but it doesn't give us the right to stop people posting opinions or challenging other's opinions either.  Nobody has been personally offensive on this thread - merely people pointing out their moral stance.
		
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You called it a predicament and then referred to it as a predicament. Of course it matters what word is used, we generally use words that are correct for the sentiment/semantic meaning. If I referred to 'someone' as a 'knob' they might take offence, if I called them a 'see you next Tuesday' then I would probably get a smack in the mouth. Of course it matters.

A 'predicament' is losing your car keys when you have an appointment to get to, or your cat being stuck up a tree; it is not stage four cancer.


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			You called it a predicament and then referred to it as a predicament. Of course it matters what word is used, we generally use words that are correct for the sentiment/semantic meaning. If I referred to 'someone' as a 'knob' they might take offence, if I called them a 'see you next Tuesday' then I would probably get a smack in the mouth. Of course it matters.

A 'predicament' is losing your car keys when you have an appointment to get to, or your cat being stuck up a tree; it is not stage four cancer.
		
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A predicament is actually a difficult/unpleasant situation, crisis, trouble/problem.  

If you want to split hairs go for it.  I couldn't give a monkeys.


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## Mongoose11 (4 July 2014)

Nah, you've proven your skills in that area and I'd never stand a chance. You carry on.


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			Nah, you've proven your skills in that area and I'd never stand a chance. You carry on.
		
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Hahaha!


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Red-1 said:



			Oooh, I have been stalking this thread for a while, was a bit shocked at some reactions, and amazed at others.

I would not have asked for the number off a forum, but if a friend knew I was looking for a .....was it a Cub saddle???....... and they found one on Preloved, thought of me, and wrote the number down for me that I guess I would accept it. 

Rather than looking at Shoplifting for an analogy I think that BD tests would be a better comparison.

I mainly do BE, and they print the tests available for all on the web site and in the rule book. BD do not, you have to pay. BD do not have them available on the web site, so I usually download mine from DRessage Diagrams, who pay BD a licence fee for the intellectual property. I resent paying as I believe the tests should be available to members, after paying my registration, my horses' registration, my entry. To pay for the bloomin test as well seems like a Tax! But, it is the rules, so I do.

I have a few times, both personally, and once on this forum, been asked for a test. All times I refuse to scan, copy, write out, as I am aware that I would be breaching copyright. In fact on this forum about a month ago I directed the OP to the Dressage Diagrams site, only for someone else to write the test out further down the thread.

To me this was also dishonest. It was not their intellectual property to give. 

Does that make me....... small minded, care less about welfare, an expert on a Kindle, a shoplifter, a Waitrose fan, moralistic, not give to charity, a fraudster, like popcorn, likely to be doing gymnastics while sitting on an uncomfortable seat (STRIKER's post has been deleted now I see), an expert on Feline Dentistry or an individual? Wow, this thread is like the world of individuals in one thread.

The strange part is, although I would not scan a BD test or copy, or type it out, I feel quite comfortable to take my (paid for) copy and read it to a client........ That seems entirely appropriate to me.
		
Click to expand...

Let's get this back to something sensible like this post, shall we?  It's a good example red-1

Interestingly, I find I have no moral problem with copying a test out by watching someone do it on YouTube.  I would happily lend a friend a paper copy of a test, and when they get their score sheet they will then have a copy direct from BD, so have paid for it. I wouldn't lend a test to a stranger on the internet, but I have pointed out the YouTube option in the past. It's an interesting one. When tests are seen in public, are they still copyright?  Would BD have any right to be annoyed by someone writing out a test from watching one on the internet?  I have no idea.


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## FionaM12 (4 July 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			The only shocking thing to come out of this thread is that someone could repeatedly refer to stage four cancer as a 'predicament'. Unbelievable.
		
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I think that's an unfortunate choice of word but I've never found Moomin to be an insensitive or unkind person so couldn't we give her the benefit of the doubt and assume it was not badly intended?


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## Sandstone1 (4 July 2014)

Someone I know has recently been killed  in a car crash, things like that put silly arguments like this in to perspective for me.
So someone askedd

 for a number for free, so what?  Ok, so maybe it's morally wrong to ask but really who cares?
Come on chill out, there are much more serious things to worry about


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## bonny (4 July 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			Someone I know has recently been killed  in a car crash, things like that put silly arguments like this in to perspective for me.
So someone askedd

 for a number for free, so what?  Ok, so maybe it's morally wrong to ask but really who cares?
Come on chill out, there are much more serious things to worry about
		
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Sorry, but that's a ridiculous statement, of course more important things happen in the world but using your logic no one would ever discuss anything.....


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## Sandstone1 (4 July 2014)

Of course it's not ridiculous.
Yes obviously things have to be discussed, but too this extent??
Really?
Maybe it's a bit cheeky to ask for a freebie but so what?


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## bonny (4 July 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			Of course it's not ridiculous.
Yes obviously things have to be discussed, but too this extent??
Really?
Maybe it's a bit cheeky to ask for a freebie but so what?
		
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I guess people want to discuss it to this extent or the thread would have died a death long ago !


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## Sandstone1 (4 July 2014)

Hum, makes you wonder really.


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			Of course it's not ridiculous.
Yes obviously things have to be discussed, but too this extent??
Really?
Maybe it's a bit cheeky to ask for a freebie but so what?
		
Click to expand...


Doesn't the fact that it has been discussed to this extent mean there are rather  a lot of people who think it's much more significant than being 'a bit cheeky'?


Though I could do without the stupid argument over semantics with moomin, that is silly, I think.


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## YorksG (4 July 2014)

Last year I couldn't find my copy of a BD test, ordered one from dressage diagrammes, but there was a problem with it downloading. I had paid for it twice, and asked on here for a copy, as it was getting perilously close to the test day, had the request removed and received a message from admin about incorrect use of the  forum. Yet the number for pre-loved remains here, how odd....


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## FionaM12 (4 July 2014)

YorksG said:



			Last year I couldn't find my copy of a BD test, ordered one from dressage diagrammes, but there was a problem with it downloading. I had paid for it twice, and asked on here for a copy, as it was getting perilously close to the test day, had the request removed and received a message from admin about incorrect use of the  forum. Yet the number for pre-loved remains here, how odd....
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's not been reported. If no-one reports it, it won't be removed, surely?


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

FionaM12 said:



			Perhaps it's not been reported. If no-one reports it, it won't be removed, surely?
		
Click to expand...

I've reported it, but only on the basis that the person did not ask for their phone number to be broadcast on hho.  I'm quite surprised that it's still there.


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## YorksG (4 July 2014)

FionaM12 said:



			Perhaps it's not been reported. If no-one reports it, it won't be removed, surely?
		
Click to expand...

So I presume  Interesting aside though, as someone felt they should report me,(perhaps they didn't believe that I had already paid twice for the test) but not this thread, although the OP is greyed out so presumably someone reported the rather choice language. I do not agree with theft, and do think the pre-loved thing is theft, but just interested in double standards


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## Red-1 (4 July 2014)

I only just found out what on earth "pushing the button" was this week while trying to make the forum work better. Not sure who would have done that, I once had a button pushed on something I said that inadvertently broke the rules, and it was quite annoying. Being a rule follower I felt inordinately guilty!


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## Sandstone1 (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Doesn't the fact that it has been discussed to this extent mean there are rather  a lot of people who think it's much more significant than being 'a bit cheeky'?


Though I could do without the stupid argument over semantics with moomin, that is silly, I think.
		
Click to expand...

I guess it comes down to a few people who have nothing better to worry about, lucky people.


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## Bestdogdash (4 July 2014)

Haven't read the whole thread, as I want to go on holiday by August, but I just want to say that it sets my teeth on edge every time I see the title - it isn't Cud (something a cow chews) is is Could. 

For that reason alone, I would never pass on information to the OP


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## justabob (4 July 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			I guess it comes down to a few people who have nothing better to worry about, lucky people.
		
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Indeed it does, and the fact that they can spend a huge amount of time on here being so self righteous actually makes me think that they must have nothing else to do.


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## Polos (4 July 2014)

Can't believe this thread is still going on!


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## Magnetic Sparrow (4 July 2014)

Me neither. I'm drawn back to it like a moth to a flame.


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## Kikke (4 July 2014)

Bestdogdash said:



			Haven't read the whole thread, as I want to go on holiday by August, but I just want to say that it sets my teeth on edge every time I see the title - it isn't Cud (something a cow chews) is is Could. 

For that reason alone, I would never pass on information to the OP
		
Click to expand...

Oh thank heavens I am not the only one!


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## Asha (4 July 2014)

justabob said:



			Indeed it does, and the fact that they can spend a huge amount of time on here being so self righteous actually makes me think that they must have nothing else to do.
		
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Sums it up perfectly.


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## khalswitz (4 July 2014)

Whats was that quote about evil being when a good man stands by and does nothing? I think if rules/laws are broken its perfectly right to pull someone up on it. And it's not about moral superiority, none of us are perfect, but its about making people aware that they shouldn't be doing it, and that is it wrong.


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## Daytona (4 July 2014)

Not read the 8 pages of replys but get the jist

You should pay to have got the number but just wondered what's the difference to what the OP did here and people who ask folks to look up BS record rather than pay the £10 or be a member.?

Don't see them jumped on for it.


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## catkin (4 July 2014)

Could someone give me a fiver so i can join PL?







only joking and stirring the pot.....................


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## Amymay (4 July 2014)

Good grief.....


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## Asha (4 July 2014)

catkin said:



			Could someone give me a fiver so i can join PL?







only joking and stirring the pot.....................
		
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I will give you 2.50, how about we share it ?


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## Mrs B (4 July 2014)

The OP paid for the service. She didn't use the info herself but gifted it to someone who could, hoping she could help them and connect seller to buyer. Big, fat, hairy deal. It's hardly 'evil' and only barely 'immoral'  in this case. 

The website concerned benefited from THREE happy people: the person who paid, the person who advertised and the person who bought. So all three would be happy to promote that website by word of mouth in future. That's how business is built. The person/people who developed this website did it KNOWING that such things would occur. And would have factored it into their business plan.

I have a film for sale on Amazon about dementia. All the proceeds go to the charity concerned. But if someone with that film shows it free, gratis & for nothing to someone else who COULD have paid for it ... do I fret? No. Nor does the charity. Because the message about the film and the charity still comes though loud and clear.And (hopefully) more people will invest money with us/the charity (and via Amazon)  and it becomes a virtuous circle.

Yes, there will always be thieves who will be morality-free zones and try to benefit from others' endeavours - but sometimes the strict rules of ownership and copyright must be bent a little to accommodate how the world actually works. For everyone's benefit.


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## SpringArising (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			The OP paid for the service. She didn't use the info herself but gifted it to someone who could, hoping she could help them and connect seller to buyer. Big, fat, hairy deal. It's hardly 'evil' and only barely 'immoral'  in this case. 

The website concerned benefited from THREE happy people: the person who paid, the person who advertised and the person who bought. So all three would be happy to promote that website by word of mouth in future. That's how business is built. The person/people who developed this website did it KNOWING that such things would occur. And would have factored it into their business plan.

I have a film for sale on Amazon about dementia. All the proceeds go to the charity concerned. But if someone with that film shows it free, gratis & for nothing to someone else who COULD have paid for it ... do I fret? No. Nor does the charity. Because the message about the film and the charity still comes though loud and clear.And (hopefully) more people will invest money with us/the charity (and via Amazon)  and it becomes a virtuous circle.

Yes, there will always be thieves who will be morality-free zones and try to benefit from others' endeavours - but sometimes the strict rules of ownership and copyright must be bent a little to accommodate how the world actually works. For everyone's benefit.
		
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Well said.

I'm fairly sure people watch their own DVD's with friends, and no one kicks up a stink about that.


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			The OP paid for the service. She didn't use the info herself but gifted it to someone who could, hoping she could help them and connect seller to buyer. Big, fat, hairy deal. It's hardly 'evil' and only barely 'immoral'  in this case. 

The website concerned benefited from THREE happy people: the person who paid, the person who advertised and the person who bought. So all three would be happy to promote that website by word of mouth in future. That's how business is built. The person/people who developed this website did it KNOWING that such things would occur. And would have factored it into their business plan.

I have a film for sale on Amazon about dementia. All the proceeds go to the charity concerned. But if someone with that film shows it free, gratis & for nothing to someone else who COULD have paid for it ... do I fret? No. Nor does the charity. Because the message about the film and the charity still comes though loud and clear.And (hopefully) more people will invest money with us/the charity (and via Amazon)  and it becomes a virtuous circle.

Yes, there will always be thieves who will be morality-free zones and try to benefit from others' endeavours - but sometimes the strict rules of ownership and copyright must be bent a little to accommodate how the world actually works. For everyone's benefit.
		
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What would your attitude be of they copied the film and has the other person a copy? Because that's much more akin to what happened here, where both the buyer and the other person have the benefit of a service which has been paid for only once.

In addition, it is within the terms of the purchase of a DVD to give it to whoever you like and to show it to whoever you like as long as you do not charge them for watching it. So there is quite simply no issue at all with your example mrsb.


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Daytona said:



			Not read the 8 pages of replys but get the jist

You should pay to have got the number but just wondered what's the difference to what the OP did here and people who ask folks to look up BS record rather than pay the £10 or be a member.?

Don't see them jumped on for it.
		
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Already covered that one, keep up


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			Well said.

I'm fairly sure people watch their own DVD's with friends, and no one kicks up a stink about that.
		
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That would be because it's in the conditions of purchase of a DVD that you can do that.


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

Now, if I put a thread up entitled "Could someone give me a fiver because I want to buy a nice bottle of wine this evening?"...I wonder how many people would tell me to shove off and stop being a tight arse?


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## Mrs B (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			What would your attitude be of they copied the film and has the other person a copy? Because that's much more akin to what happened here, where both the buyer and the other person have the benefit of a service which has been paid for only once.

In addition, it is within the terms of the purchase of a DVD to give it to whoever you like and to show it to whoever you like as long as you do not charge them for watching it. So there is quite simply no issue at all with your example mrsb.
		
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The buyer didn't buy the saddle, the person they gave the info to did. Therefore only one person benefitted in effect.

And as for copying my film and passing it on? With my personal and professional hat on? Couldn't give a flying duckie; if it helps someone personally and will most likely help me/the charity in future? Win, win.


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## shannonandtay (4 July 2014)

The site has now just had its biggest advertisement ever ))


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## Mrs B (4 July 2014)

shannonandtay said:



			The site has now just had its biggest advertisement ever ))
		
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It has indeed! Quick! Get sponsorship for a new saddle while it lasts ...


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			The buyer didn't buy the saddle, the person they gave the info to did. Therefore only one person benefitted in effect.

And as for copying my film and passing it on? With my personal and professional hat on? Couldn't give a flying duckie; if it helps someone personally and will most likely help me/the charity in future? Win, win.
		
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The product bought is not access to that one advert, Mrs b. It's access to all adverts for a year. The product has been made available to two people when only one has paid.  And there is a loser here, it's preloved and preloved staff. If enough people do the same, jobs may go and the rest of us might lose it altogether.


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## Mrs B (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			The product bought is not access to that one advert, Mrs b. It's access to all adverts for a year. The product has been made available to two people when only one has paid.  And there is a loser here, it's preloved and preloved staff. If enough people do the same, jobs may go and the rest of us might lose it altogether.
		
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I know that. And I would direct you to my point about people who set these sites up knowing that this will happen, as they also know they will benefit in kind. If enough people 'share', the business will grow, the ad revenue will build ... and jobs will be created and no one loses at all.


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			I know that. And I would direct you to my point about people who set these sites up knowing that this will happen, as they also know they will benefit in kind. If enough people 'share', the business will grow, the ad revenue will build ... and jobs will be created and no one loses at all.
		
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It will only grow if people continue to pay.  So those honest people who pay their way, will keep the business going.


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## Leo Walker (4 July 2014)

Ironically I just paid the fiver to join! Not because of this thread, but because there was an ad I really wanted to respond to, so I stumped up!


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## Leo Walker (4 July 2014)

If anyone wants any numbers then just let me know


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			I know that. And I would direct you to my point about people who set these sites up knowing that this will happen, as they also know they will benefit in kind. If enough people 'share', the business will grow, the ad revenue will build ... and jobs will be created and no one loses at all.
		
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How can the business grow if people share the thing that generates revenue? What do you think they are going to pay these new employees with?


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## mulledwhine (4 July 2014)

Found our lovely pony on pre loved cxxx had some issues but it is not all bad xx


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## mulledwhine (4 July 2014)

Found my boy on pre loved xx

Perfect on lead reign, a little pig off, now a star


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## Mrs B (4 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			It will only grow if people continue to pay.  So those honest people who pay their way, will keep the business going.
		
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No - it will continue to keep going once enough people have initially paid for and benefitted from the service to enable advertising revenue to sustain it (keep the business going). Thereafter, the normal rules of marketing apply.


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## Daytona (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Already covered that one, keep up 

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Ha ha I can't cope reading 8 pages of replys on my phone


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			No - it will continue to keep going once enough people have initially paid for and benefitted from the service to enable advertising revenue to sustain it (keep the business going). Thereafter, the normal rules of marketing apply.
		
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...Even if that is so, which I disagree to some extent, then there are still honest people paying up and scrounging low moralled people taking free info in the meantime....


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			No - it will continue to keep going once enough people have initially paid for and benefitted from the service to enable advertising revenue to sustain it (keep the business going). Thereafter, the normal rules of marketing apply.
		
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You haven't read back have you?

There is a statement by them a few pages back that says they limit advertising to make the experience of using the site better for everyone, and therefore need to charge a user fee for early access to seller details.

They are already a big organisation who could force far more advertising on users If they chose. What they need to keep the current service is people to pay for what they use.


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## Mrs B (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			How can the business grow if people share the thing that generates revenue? What do you think they are going to pay these new employees with?
		
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People love being part of a club. The 'thing they share that generates revenue'. If they share, they're in that club. That generates an opportunity to market further products to them, which generates revenue to pay staff.


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## zigzag (4 July 2014)

Well a different slant on it, can't be arsed trawling through preloved , so if anyone is looking and spots a 15 inch Brown throwogood T4 pony club saddle, let me know, (Il cough up the fiver then to get a number ) unless someone just wants to do both


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

..I'm still waiting for some kind soul to donate five quid to me to buy a nice bottle of wine this evening...anyone??


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## Mrs B (4 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			...Even if that is so, which I disagree to some extent, then there are still honest people paying up and scrounging low moralled people taking free info in the meantime....
		
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*Offers Moomin a large G&T*


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## Mrs B (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You haven't read back have you?

There is a statement by them a few pages back that says they limit advertising to make the experience of using the site better for everyone, and therefore need to charge a user fee for early access to seller details.

They are already a big organisation who could force far more advertising on users If they chose. What they need to keep the current service is people to pay for what they use.
		
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I have read back. And you believe them? Honestly?

(ETA - Am off to bed. My 'new' horse ( 2 weeks) is in Horsepital with a kicked stifle and after everything else that's happened this year, horse-wise, thank you for the spirited distraction x)


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## Nancykitt (4 July 2014)

Am I right in thinking that the £5 membership enables people to place ads?
If this is the case then the site would be generating income from people advertising their goods so would keep going on that basis (although I may have got this wrong as I've never used the site myself).

In most advertising situations, you pay to place an advert. I think it's less usual for people to pay to view adverts so by charging people to view an advert ahead of the general public Preloved have hit upon an idea for generating extra income. 

Apologies if I've got this wrong.


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			*Offers Moomin a large G&T*
		
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I DON'T DRINK G&T! Pffftttt!!!!


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			People love being part of a club. The 'thing they share that generates revenue'. If they share, they're in that club. That generates an opportunity to market further products to them, which generates revenue to pay staff.
		
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You really are desperate to justify not paying for services people should be paying for, aren't you? We are talking about doing a business out of revenue here, not some cosy little club. If people nick your first product, they'll nick your second too!


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			I have read back. And you believe them? Honestly?
		
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Believe they could pump more advertising into the site? Of course they could.

But even if I didn't I wouldn't take their product and give it free to someone else!

Banks disgust me with the way they do business. It doesn't mean I think I should be able to defraud them.


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## Mrs B (4 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I DON'T DRINK G&T! Pffftttt!!!!
		
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Are you MAD?


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			..I'm still waiting for some kind soul to donate five quid to me to buy a nice bottle of wine this evening...anyone??
		
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My problem is 'nice' 'wine' and 'five quid' just doesn't compute moomin


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## Mrs B (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You really are desperate to justify not paying for services people should be paying for, aren't you? We are talking about doing a business out of revenue here, not some cosy little club. If people nick your first product, they'll nick your second too!
		
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Bless you, CPT. Sleep well.


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Nancykitt said:



			Am I right in thinking that the £5 membership enables people to place ads?
If this is the case then the site would be generating income from people advertising their goods so would keep going on that basis (although I may have got this wrong as I've never used the site myself).

In most advertising situations, you pay to place an advert. I think it's less usual for people to pay to view adverts so by charging people to view an advert ahead of the general public Preloved have hit upon an idea for generating extra income. 

Apologies if I've got this wrong.
		
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I don't think it's really relevant Nancy. They are entitled to charge what they want for what they want to supply. If someone doesn't want to pay it then surely, they shouldn't use it?


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			Bless you, CPT. Sleep well.
		
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Unlikely. Very uncomfortable hotel bed and snoring husband  Thanks anyway.


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Unlikely. Very uncomfortable hotel bed and snoring husband  Thanks anyway.
		
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*Here's a tenner to buy a decent bottle of wine to help you sleep...


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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			*Here's a tenner to buy a decent bottle of wine to help you sleep...
		
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Awww, you are too kind   Do I drink it or whack the snorer over the head with it?


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## Moomin1 (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Awww, you are too kind   Do I drink it or whack the snorer over the head with it?
		
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Drink it then whack him over the head with the empty bottle!!


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## FinnishLapphund (4 July 2014)

Daytona said:



			Ha ha I can't cope reading 8 pages of replys on my phone 

Click to expand...

I think the copying BS records-subject began with these two replies (on page 3, with settings = 40 replies per page):



khalswitz said:



			Can I just add that people regularly look up BS records for other people on HHO, and it has never caused a riot like this - and BS membership is much more expensive. Surely that should be even worse?
		
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cptrayes said:



			It's nothing like the same though is it K?

The primary purpose of BS membership is to own/ride a horse which competes BS,  the record is incidental, and of not much commercial value.

People justifying what they are doing seem to be doing it by confusing what they pay preloved for. The subscription is not to 'own' one phone number from one ad, it's to have the right to any phone number on any ad before other users of the site.

There are two levels of subscription, one of which allows you to share information with other members of your organisation and costs five times as much as an individual subscription for that reason.

People seem to be forgetting that there are jobs at stake here if too many people refuse to pay the subscription. They don't provide the service for fun and they have a right to be paid for it.

I know it's 'only a fiver' but if you excuse dishonesty of a fiver, where do you stop?
		
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## cptrayes (4 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Drink it then whack him over the head with the empty bottle!!
		
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Of course. I think a nice cabernet would work well for that, the darker bottle and red wine will hide the blood


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## Buddy'sMum (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			My problem is 'nice' 'wine' and 'five quid' just doesn't compute moomin 

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Oh yes it does..my fave plonk is half-price at the moment £4.95...colour me happy for the forseeable..!


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## justabob (4 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Awww, you are too kind   Do I drink it or whack the snorer over the head with it?
		
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Bet he is snoring because he is bored to death with you, I know I am!! What do yo DO all day? Spend hour upon hour EVERY day on this forum arguing the toss?


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## MerrySherryRider (5 July 2014)

That's not nice justabob. 

This debate is an insight into people's moral compass. I guess it's only boring if you don't see any dilemma around the principles of small theft.


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## shannonandtay (5 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			That's not nice justabob. 

This debate is an insight into people's moral compass. I guess it's only boring if you don't see any dilemma around the principles of small theft.
		
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Report it to the police then if u think it's theft, see what they say.


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## cptrayes (5 July 2014)

justabob said:



			Bet he is snoring because he is bored to death with you, I know I am!! What do yo DO all day? Spend hour upon hour EVERY day on this forum arguing the toss?
		
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If it helps justabob, think of me as the price you pay for getting on this forum without paying five quid to access it. IPC magazines love threads like this that keep up the visit count


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## cptrayes (5 July 2014)

shannonandtay said:



			Report it to the police then if u think it's theft, see what they say.
		
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They will say that investigating a theft of a product worth five pounds by an unnamed individual on the internet would take so much resources that it is not in the public interest.

Which is one reason why it's worth discussing here.

Oh hot dang Juststabob, I just posted from my hotel bed again, sorry!


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## justabob (5 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			They will say that investigating a theft of a product worth five pounds by an unnamed individual on the internet would take so much resources that it is not in the public interest.

Which is one reason why it's worth discussing here.

Oh hot dang Juststabob, I just posted from my hotel bed again, sorry!
		
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I am quite certain that it will be one of many posts from you today, good to start them nice and early.


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## Amymay (5 July 2014)

justabob said:



			Bet he is snoring because he is bored to death with you, I know I am!! What do yo DO all day? Spend hour upon hour EVERY day on this forum arguing the toss?
		
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I hate it when people stoop to this level of argument.


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## shannonandtay (5 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			They will say that investigating a theft of a product worth five pounds by an unnamed individual on the internet would take so much resources that it is not in the public interest.

Which is one reason why it's worth discussing here.

That's exactly what they would say and I think we've all got the message about how you feel about it 

Click to expand...


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## Ibblebibble (5 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			..I'm still waiting for some kind soul to donate five quid to me to buy a nice bottle of wine this evening...anyone??
		
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surely that would be morally wrong, encouraging you to drink when pregnant


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## jokadoka (5 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I DON'T DRINK G&T! Pffftttt!!!!
		
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I think you should definitely start now!!!!!!!!


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## Moomin1 (5 July 2014)

Ibblebibble said:



			surely that would be morally wrong, encouraging you to drink when pregnant 

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Oh don't worry...I enjoy one glass and then stare at the remains longingly.... ;-)


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## DipseyDeb (5 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Did you use the site ever again for yourself? If so, you stole a fiver. If not, you still probably broke the terms and conditions that you signed up for when you paid over your fiver.

.
		
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How is offering to join to help a friend stealing??  So if you're out with a friend and you offer to buy them something because they've forgotten their purse....would that be the same as shop lifting??


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## Moomin1 (5 July 2014)

DipseyDeb said:



			How is offering to join to help a friend stealing??  So if you're out with a friend and you offer to buy them something because they've forgotten their purse....would that be the same as shop lifting??
		
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No, because only that friend can enjoy that item. It can't be replicated over and over again, for numerous people to enjoy free of charge.


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## MerrySherryRider (5 July 2014)

shannonandtay said:



			Report it to the police then if u think it's theft, see what they say.
		
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That's a very quaint view of the police. Perhaps you've never had an ipad, a car, bicycle  or a horse stolen because you'd be a little more realistic about what happens when you have something stolen. 
 Even though the police don't send out detectives to investigate and rush to prosecute, most people would still know its wrong.


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## Honey08 (5 July 2014)

DipseyDeb said:



			How is offering to join to help a friend stealing??  So if you're out with a friend and you offer to buy them something because they've forgotten their purse....would that be the same as shop lifting??
		
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It's not the same though.  If you offered to pay for them to join Preloved because they didn't have the money that would be the same.  If you're just passing them a number you're copying it from your account, not buying an account for them..  Personally I don't have much of a problem with friends and family sharing, it's the asking random strangers on the internet that irritates me.


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## cptrayes (5 July 2014)

DipseyDeb said:



			How is offering to join to help a friend stealing??
		
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As my answer made clear, it's not, as long as you never use the site for stuff that requires a subscription yourself. If you both use it, one of you is using a product that should have been paid for.


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## DipseyDeb (5 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			As my answer made clear, it's not, as long as you never use the site for stuff that requires a subscription yourself. If you both use it, one of you is using a product that should have been paid for.
		
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I'm bowing out...this thread's just a little bit......anal!!!


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## cptrayes (5 July 2014)

DipseyDeb said:



			I'm bowing out...this thread's just a little bit......anal!!!
		
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If people keep asking questions is it not polite to answer, rather than anal to answer?

I'm astonished about how plain rude and personal people have felt free to be on this thread, it really is highlighting the worst of hho these days


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## Cheshire Chestnut (5 July 2014)

justabob said:



			Bet he is snoring because he is bored to death with you, I know I am!! What do yo DO all day? Spend hour upon hour EVERY day on this forum arguing the toss?
		
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Wow. That's a bit mean.

If you're that bored with it, just don't read it!


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## shannonandtay (5 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			That's a very quaint view of the police. Perhaps you've never had an ipad, a car, bicycle  or a horse stolen because you'd be a little more realistic about what happens when you have something stolen. 
 Even though the police don't send out detectives to investigate and rush to prosecute, most people would still know its wrong.[/

Yes I'm quite aware of that and yes we know some people find it wrong, how can we not know that by the length of this thread and some of the bore that's come out of it.  As I said before its probably morally wrong but it's hardly crime of the century, in fact it's probably not a crime at all hence my sarcastic quote about reporting it.  Now you can bore on.
		
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## Tiddlypom (5 July 2014)

Cheshire Chestnut said:



			Wow. That's a bit mean.

If you're that bored with it, just don't read it!
		
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Indeed.

In fact it's more than mean, it's downright nasty.


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## MerrySherryRider (5 July 2014)

Talking about integrity is probably boring to people who don't have it, while the people who do have it, don't find it boring. 

How about the bored people go and find a thread about choosing the right colour numnah instead.


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## FinnishLapphund (5 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			If people keep asking questions is it not polite to answer, rather than anal to answer?

I'm astonished about how plain rude and personal people have felt free to be on this thread, it really is highlighting the worst of hho these days 

Click to expand...







 Personally, I think that the majority of the replies have discussed the subject, or other things, in a quite civilised manner, and to me, that matters more than the replies that doesn't.  


In my opinion, I think that if people want the contact info, they should either pay the price Preloved asks for, for providing this service, or keep their fingers crossed for that nobody else buys whatever they're interested in, while they wait until they can get the info for free.

Trying to get the info for free, without waiting until the info is provided for free, is to cheat the system. Even though the person who chooses to give away the contact info, maybe feels that they've paid for the service and can do what they want with it, it is understandable, if such cheating makes some of the others who follow the rules upset. 

There is worse things people can do, than cheat a company on £5, but it is still wrong. Besides, if too many people uses this loophole to avoid paying the fee, surely that must be financially negative for the company.

I can understand if people in odd occasions use their account to get info, which a close family member or friend wants. I'm not saying that I think that it is entirely right to do so, but I can understand it. 



To try and cheer people up, I will end my reply with a completely random cat smiley:


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## TheresaW (5 July 2014)

I love cats 

Have read all this thread, and I do agree with CPTrayes and Moomin.  Hadn't really thought about it before, but they have made me think.  I am a paid member of preloved.  It's not a site I use very often, but am currently looking for a saddle for my youngster, so looking on eBay, gumtree, etc. Saw one on PL last weekend, needed to know if it was adjustable.  Was a new ad, so to message seller, I had to pay a membership.  It was "just a fiver", so I paid it.

I won't lie, I think now I'm a member, if a close friend or family member asked me for a favour, I'd possibly do it, but I certainly wouldn't for a stranger on a forum.  I also know for certain, I would never have asked on here, or anywhere, for someone to do it for me.  After all, it's only a fiver!


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## shannonandtay (5 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Talking about integrity is probably boring to people who don't have it, while the people who do have it, don't find it boring. 

How about the bored people go and find a thread about choosing the right colour numnah instead.
		
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Will do, hey why don't we all do that and then we can attack them for days on end about choosing the wrong one


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## Nancykitt (5 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I don't think it's really relevant Nancy. They are entitled to charge what they want for what they want to supply. If someone doesn't want to pay it then surely, they shouldn't use it?
		
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It doesn't alter the right or wrong of it, but it does away with the argument that if no-one paid to see the ads early then the site would fold. If the revenue was coming from sellers placing ads then they will no doubt get enough revenue to run the site. 
I hadn't thought about it before but I don't think I'd use Preloved if I was selling something as I'd want my ad to be seen by the maximum number of people possible from day 1.

Just another thought...
Suppose the OP asked the subscriber to look up the number, make contact with the seller and then buy the saddle.
Then they sold it on to the OP.
How would that be viewed? Acceptable or not?


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## Fly_By_Wire (5 July 2014)

Nancykitt said:



			Just another thought...
Suppose the OP asked the subscriber to look up the number, make contact with the seller and then buy the saddle.
Then they sold it on to the OP.
How would that be viewed? Acceptable or not?
		
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Viewed as the subscriber being incredibly trusting of the OP!!


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## cptrayes (5 July 2014)

Nancykitt said:



			It doesn't alter the right or wrong of it, but it does away with the argument that if no-one paid to see the ads early then the site would fold. If the revenue was coming from sellers placing ads then they will no doubt get enough revenue to run the site.
		
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That like saying if Marks and Spencer gave away its food for free it could still survive on the revenue it makes from its clothes. Preloved has a business plan that depends on revenue from both streams.

I'm fascinated by people's creativity  on this thread


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## cptrayes (5 July 2014)

FinnishLapphund said:



			Personally, I think that the majority of the replies have discussed the subject, or other things, in a quite civilised manner, and to me, that matters more than the replies that doesn't. 

To try and cheer people up, I will end my reply with a completely random cat smiley: 





Click to expand...



You weren't the target, I was! I think I was entitled to comment, FL

Love the cat


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## dogatemysalad (5 July 2014)

shannonandtay said:



			Will do, hey why don't we all do that and then we can attack them for days on end about choosing the wrong one 

Click to expand...

Oh crikey. Don't let's talk about good taste. Such a thread could go on for ages and lead to mass bannings.


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## Mrs B (5 July 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			Oh crikey. Don't let's talk about good taste. Such a thread could go on for ages and lead to mass bannings.

Click to expand...


Droopy 'bling' brow bands - hate 'em! Makes even Totilas look like Kipper (from the Thelwell cartoons. For those born after 1985, look it up on Google or click this: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=K...zKKXG7Aaw0oGABA&ved=0CCgQsAQ&biw=1124&bih=716)

Ban me! Gowan  ... you know you want to ...


----------



## Tiddlypom (5 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			Droopy 'bling' brow bands - hate 'em! Makes even Totilas look like Kipper (from the Thelwell cartoons.
		
Click to expand...

Agree! They look saggy and naff, like they have stretched in the wash. Yuk  .


----------



## Patterdale (5 July 2014)

Crikey :eek3:

I think some of you need to get a grip.


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## dogatemysalad (5 July 2014)

Mrs.B, I'm on your team. Droopy is not a good look.


----------



## doriangrey (5 July 2014)

Off topic I know - but I hate them too.  They just look so wrong.


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## FinnishLapphund (5 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You weren't the target, I was! I think I was entitled to comment, FL

Love the cat 

Click to expand...

It wasn't my intention to sound as if you weren't entitled to make the comment you did, and the "There, there" smiley I begun my reply with, was intended as a comforting smiley.

I'm glad you liked the cat, here's another one: 








Don't let other people get you to feel down, just get them out of your sight...


----------



## Mrs B (5 July 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			Mrs.B, I'm on your team. Droopy is not a good look.
		
Click to expand...

(Carrying on off-topic)

Having just been in my local tack shop today, I thought it was just me  So thank you!

To me, the fine vertical lines and muscles of a horse's face are so beautiful that any horizontal 'tack' we put on them should be subservient and only there because it's necessary for control. Not scream : 'Ha! I have bridled this horse: he's mine and here's my mark of ownership!'

To put droopy 'bling' on such a face is like scrawling in highlighter pen across the Mona Lisa.


----------



## cptrayes (5 July 2014)

, where do you get them all from, FL?


----------



## Moomin1 (5 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			(Carrying on off-topic)

Having just been in my local tack shop today, I thought it was just me  So thank you!

To me, the fine vertical lines and muscles of a horse's face are so beautiful that any horizontal 'tack' we put on them should be subservient and only there because it's necessary for control. Not scream : 'Ha! I have bridled this horse: he's mine and here's my mark of ownership!'

To put droopy 'bling' on such a face is like scrawling in highlighter pen across the Mona Lisa.
		
Click to expand...

God, it needs scrawling on - the Mona Lisa is hideous IMO! ;-)


----------



## dogatemysalad (5 July 2014)

Mrs B you are the epitome of good taste. You can be my style guru. 

Back on track- Are we all agreed now that Preloved deserves it's fiver ? If not, could any dissenters speak now. Hopefully, they'll be too bored to answer and then we can move onto cats and browbands.


----------



## Moomin1 (5 July 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			Mrs B you are the epitome of good taste. You can be my style guru. 

Back on track- Are we all agreed now that Preloved deserves it's fiver ? If not, could any dissenters speak now. Hopefully, they'll be too bored to answer and then we can move onto cats and browbands.
		
Click to expand...

What colour cat do you think matches a beige and chocolate sofa?


----------



## Mrs B (5 July 2014)

OI! Just because the poor lady didn't get NHS dental treatment doesn't mean you have to be rude about her oil-painted 'selfie'


----------



## dogatemysalad (5 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			What colour cat do you think matches a beige and chocolate sofa?
		
Click to expand...

Oh, Dahhhling, it could only be a Burmese.


----------



## Mrs B (5 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			What colour cat do you think matches a beige and chocolate sofa?
		
Click to expand...

One of these: 
	
	
		
		
	


	





She's been a pain in the butt today and is now on Preloved herself... (all fivers to me please)


----------



## dogatemysalad (5 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			One of these: 
	
	
		
		
	


	





She's been a pain in the butt today and is now on Preloved herself... (all fivers to me please)
		
Click to expand...

OMG. Is that real ? Wow. She can be as much as a pain as she likes, she's amazing. Sending you £4.99 for her.  (Gave myself a discount.)


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## cptrayes (5 July 2014)

Mrs B said:



			One of these: 
	
	
		
		
	


	





She's been a pain in the butt today and is now on Preloved herself... (all fivers to me please)
		
Click to expand...


Spectacular. Bengal???  We have half a one and he never shuts up, the most vocal cat I've ever known


----------



## Mrs B (5 July 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			OMG. Is that real ? Wow. She can be as much as a pain as she likes, she's amazing. Sending you £4.99 for her.  (Gave myself a discount.)

Sold! Yes, she's real. Nutty as a fruit cake, spends much of her life playing 'fetch' and makes every day she's in my world speshal. Her coat is like silk and her brain is like flubber.



			
				Spectacular. Bengal??? We have half a one and he never shuts up said:
			
		


			She's a kosher Bengal, yes. We already had a half one and decided to go the full sandwich-short-of-a-picnic.

Stoopid us ...

PS please forgive the fact that I have no clue how to post with multiple quotes ...
		
Click to expand...



Click to expand...


----------



## Asha (5 July 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			Mrs B you are the epitome of good taste. You can be my style guru. 

Back on track- Are we all agreed now that Preloved deserves it's fiver ? If not, could any dissenters speak now. Hopefully, they'll be too bored to answer and then we can move onto cats and browbands.
		
Click to expand...

I like droopy sparkly brow bands, but I do also like sparkly hats, saddle cloths, head collars and breeches. I don't own any mind, as I'm way too old and chubby.  

As for the pl debate, Although I do agree people should pay the fiver, just found the discussion a tad repetitive.


----------



## FinnishLapphund (5 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



, where do you get them all from, FL?
		
Click to expand...

Hm, I'm not sure if I really should admit this on an open forum, but it has happened that I've amused myself with searching the internet for sites with free smileys, gifs, animations, memes etc.

I haven't counted how many sites I've bookmarked, but they're more than a handful. I suppose I've even categorised them, I have a few that I've kept as direct links in my bookmark list (I use them the most), and then I have one folder called Smiley sites (for sites which I use sometimes), and a second folder called So-so smiley sites (for sites which I more or less never use, but I still couldn't resist bookmarking them), and sometimes I simply use Google or Yahoo image search (e.g. when I know which smiley I'm looking for, but can't remember which site I've seen it on)...







I confess, I have a slight smiley obsession.


----------



## cptrayes (5 July 2014)

Well I love the results of your gif and smiley geekiness, keep it up


----------



## FinnishLapphund (5 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Well I love the results of your gif and smiley geekiness, keep it up 

Click to expand...


Oh, thank you 
	
	
		
		
	


	




, I'll do my best. 





On the subject of blingy bow bands, fashion gurus, how about this?


----------



## SpringArising (6 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			If people keep asking questions is it not polite to answer, rather than anal to answer?

I'm astonished about how plain rude and personal people have felt free to be on this thread, it really is highlighting the worst of hho these days 

Click to expand...

Says the person who started this entire thing with 'For goodness sake it costs a fiver to join, just pay it!!!!!'. Interesting.


----------



## SpringArising (6 July 2014)

TheresaW said:



			After all, it's only a fiver!
		
Click to expand...

Why not make your friend pay it then? Do you think Preloved cares whether it's your friend or a stranger?


----------



## Feival (6 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			So will you shoplift for the next person who asks you to give them something that they are supposed to pay a business for?

What you did was theft. You gave someone a product which they were supposed to pay five pounds to have access to.
		
Click to expand...

OMG It is NOT comparible to shoplifting at all!! there is no 'product' for the £5, its a membership fee. You can choose to be a member or not, in the OP'S case, Not!


----------



## cptrayes (6 July 2014)

The Polo Bear said:



			OMG It is NOT comparible to shoplifting at all!! there is no 'product' for the £5, its a membership fee. You can choose to be a member or not, in the OP'S case, Not!
		
Click to expand...

Anyone got any popcorn?


----------



## FinnishLapphund (6 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Anyone got any popcorn?
		
Click to expand...


I have plenty, we can share.


----------



## cptrayes (6 July 2014)

Oh good. Have you ever tried the white chocolate and raspberry stuff. It's stunning, but I only ever found it once, in a little seaside town.

I'll settle for toffee flavour of you could pass some over


----------



## slumdog (6 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Oh good. Have you ever tried the white chocolate and raspberry stuff. It's stunning, but I only ever found it once, in a little seaside town.

I'll settle for toffee flavour of you could pass some over 

Click to expand...

I got some of that in asda once, it's in their posh range, it was amazing!


----------



## cptrayes (6 July 2014)

slumdog said:



			I got some of that in asda once, it's in their posh range, it was amazing!
		
Click to expand...

Ooh, I'm going near an asda Wednesday, I'll check it out . I found it in a spar in Grange over Sands years ago and I've never seen it since.


----------



## TheresaW (6 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			Why not make your friend pay it then? Do you think Preloved cares whether it's your friend or a stranger?
		
Click to expand...

As I said, I'd possibly do it, but most of my friends and family would most likely pay their fiver themselves, same as I'd never have asked them to do it for me.


----------



## FinnishLapphund (6 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Oh good. Have you ever tried the white chocolate and raspberry stuff. It's stunning, but I only ever found it once, in a little seaside town.

I'll settle for toffee flavour of you could pass some over 

Click to expand...

Are you talking about flavoured popcorn? You can have whatever taste you want on yours...


----------



## cptrayes (7 July 2014)

Is that a chocolate chair the hamster is sitting in  ?


----------



## FinnishLapphund (7 July 2014)

Sorry, I'm afraid it isn't a chocolate chair, they're at the cinema:


----------



## meesha (7 July 2014)

OMG just stumbled across this thread and now I don't know what is going on - preloved, cats, cats with bows and hamsters !! ahhhh its like the twilight zone......


----------



## cobgoblin (7 July 2014)

Read most of the thread, the hamster has the most sense!


----------



## FinnishLapphund (7 July 2014)

meesha said:



			OMG just stumbled across this thread and now I don't know what is going on - preloved, cats, cats with bows and hamsters !! ahhhh its like the twilight zone......
		
Click to expand...

 In the Twilight zone anything could happen! But it was difficult to find a fitting image for that subject, however, on the Twilight theme... 


Who knows, maybe there will soon be vampire horses on this thread?


----------



## FinnishLapphund (7 July 2014)




----------



## FinnishLapphund (7 July 2014)




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## Fun Times (7 July 2014)

Double posted, numpty.


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## Fun Times (7 July 2014)

FL given how efficiently you have diffused this thread with your rather bizarre but nonetheless hilarious sense of humour, I cant help thinking there must be a role for you in the united nations peace envoy or similar....


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## cptrayes (7 July 2014)

Fun Times said:



			FL given how efficiently you have diffused this thread with your rather bizarre but nonetheless hilarious sense of humour, I cant help thinking there must be a role for you in the united nations peace envoy or similar....
		
Click to expand...

I'll second her/his nomination!!


----------



## MerrySherryRider (7 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Poor puddy tat. She needs a couple of teeth out. Vet has quoted between £250 - £400 ! Think it's only ever cost me around £140 max. Even that was dearer than the filly having her wolf teeth out. 
Perhaps daughter take the service and not pay

Click to expand...

Update on puddy tat for anyone who lost sleep over her tooth crisis.  Daughter took her to another vet today who simply cracked the plague off with her thumb and said there was no need to remove any teeth. 
Bill; a mere £29 for examination. Happy cat.


----------



## Mrs B (7 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Update on puddy tat for anyone who lost sleep over her tooth crisis.  Daughter took her to another vet today who simply cracked the plague off with her thumb and said there was no need to remove any teeth. 
Bill; a mere £29 for examination. Happy cat. 

Click to expand...

Great outcome!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (7 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Update on puddy tat for anyone who lost sleep over her tooth crisis.  Daughter took her to another vet today who simply cracked the plague off with her thumb and said there was no need to remove any teeth. 
Bill; a mere £29 for examination. Happy cat. 

Click to expand...

That's great, a happy ending indeed, PS did you know that both cats and dogs need their back end checked [gross]


----------



## FinnishLapphund (7 July 2014)

Fun Times said:



			FL given how efficiently you have diffused this thread with your rather bizarre but nonetheless hilarious sense of humour, I cant help thinking there must be a role for you in the united nations peace envoy or similar....
		
Click to expand...




cptrayes said:



			I'll second her/his nomination!!
		
Click to expand...









I don't think I did it alone. But wow, I don't think anyone has thought that I could be of any use at that sort of level before, and now, two persons who says it. Wow!  
	
	
		
		
	


	



 
I'm not sure I would be so useful in reality though, since I have more patience with animals than humans. 

P.s. I am definitely one of the many women on HHO.


----------



## FinnishLapphund (7 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Update on puddy tat for anyone who lost sleep over her tooth crisis.  Daughter took her to another vet today who simply cracked the plague off with her thumb and said there was no need to remove any teeth. 
Bill; a mere £29 for examination. Happy cat. 

Click to expand...


Happy owner too I presume! Glad to hear the puddy tat can continue to smile.


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## cptrayes (7 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Update on puddy tat for anyone who lost sleep over her tooth crisis.  Daughter took her to another vet today who simply cracked the plague off with her thumb and said there was no need to remove any teeth. 
Bill; a mere £29 for examination. Happy cat. 

Click to expand...

Report the first vet, possibly?????? Sounds like they were exaggerating the problem for the money 

Glad the puddy is fine


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## FionaM12 (7 July 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Update on puddy tat for anyone who lost sleep over her tooth crisis.  Daughter took her to another vet today who simply cracked the plague off with her thumb and said there was no need to remove any teeth. 
Bill; a mere £29 for examination. Happy cat. 

Click to expand...

Good to hear but amazed plague is so easy to cure these days!


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## MerrySherryRider (7 July 2014)

I'll pass on the good wishes to full toothed smiley Ronnie, thanks everyone.  Love the smilies FL !

Yes, I think the first vet, working for a national pet company, did seem to be a bit dubious with his diagnosis and pricing. Second vet was one I used to use- and has been brilliant.
Didn't know about the botty checks MrsD. Thanks for that.


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## Fun Times (8 July 2014)

FionaM12 said:



			Good to hear but amazed plague is so easy to cure these days! 

Click to expand...

 ha ha ha. If only they had known centuries ago....


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## PaddyMonty (8 July 2014)

Oi you lot. Leave the droopy browband lovers alone.


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## equestriansports (8 July 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			Oi you lot. Leave the droopy browband lovers alone.





Click to expand...

Here, here! I am an advocate of over blinged and droopy browbands.
I have banned myself from putting my gelding in pink though! Round of applause for self control, anyone?
Edit; very pretty horse you have there!


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## PaddyMonty (8 July 2014)

equestriansports said:



			Edit; very pretty horse you have there!
		
Click to expand...

Thankyou but sadly not my horse. I just have the honor of schooling and competing him.
Looks even more handsome now he has muscled up. Pic was taken 3 months ago.
We're at a party tomorrow so will try and get some up to date pics.


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## LittleOwl (8 July 2014)

Read the whole thread (I'm a student. We have ridiculously long summer holidays.), thought of a reply, argument diffused, no need for my thoughtful *cough* boring reply. Sad times. Although it was interesting to see peoples views, I personally think the thread was made by the hamsters or maybe the horse PaddyMonty rides


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## Carefreegirl (8 July 2014)

I was 35 when this thread started - I'm 43 in just 19 days.....

Just saying.......

And the use of 'cud' still p****s me off ! :biggrin3:


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## TBB (8 July 2014)

I opened this thread, skipped a few pages (many) and skipped to the end. Lifes too short to read it all but what was that about the Cat who needed the dentist? !!!


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## w1bbler (8 July 2014)

This thread has got so ridiculous that we should try & keep it going as long as possible with random stuff, cud that be possible.


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## Mrs B (8 July 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			Oi you lot. Leave the droopy browband lovers alone.





Click to expand...

Shan't and you can't make me  So ner ner ne ner ner  






(Lovely 'oss)


----------



## AmieeT (8 July 2014)

Carefreegirl said:



			I was 35 when this thread started - I'm 43 in just 19 days.....

Just saying.......

And the use of 'cud' still p****s me off ! :biggrin3:
		
Click to expand...

I'm so daft- saw this and went back to the first page to check the date!!

Ax

PS- most 'text' slang p****s me off!!


----------



## FionaM12 (8 July 2014)

I wonder if the OP bought the saddle?  

We'll never know of course because they managed to get themselves banned.


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## w1bbler (8 July 2014)

Yes, I think on page 8 they said they did.


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## FionaM12 (8 July 2014)

w1bbler said:



			Yes, I think on page 8 they said they did.
		
Click to expand...

You read the whole thread?!


----------



## DJ (8 July 2014)

w1bbler said:



			Yes, I think on page 8 they said they did.
		
Click to expand...

Yes they did, and then went on to sell some bits n bobs too


----------



## OldNag (8 July 2014)

FionaM12 said:



			You read the whole thread?! 

Click to expand...

Wow. Am impressed. This thread is longer than War and Peace.

Do we have a puddytat/plague update?


----------



## w1bbler (8 July 2014)

I was very bores this evening & for some reason skip read most of this thread & I'm very confused, but I


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## w1bbler (8 July 2014)

Think the cats ok!


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## lastchancer (8 July 2014)

I have no idea why a simple preloved number request would run to 43 pages, and I'm not gonna read the whole thread.

But I do hope the cats ok, whatever is was wrong with it or whoever it belongs to. pmsl.


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## lastchancer (8 July 2014)

FionaM12 said:



			I wonder if the OP bought the saddle?  

We'll never know of course because they managed to get themselves banned. 

Click to expand...

Ahh shame, i was looking forward to a follow up - ''I bought a saddle off preloved and it didn't arrive'' type thread


----------



## MrsH1970 (8 July 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			Thankyou but sadly not my horse. I just have the honor of schooling and competing him.
Looks even more handsome now he has muscled up. Pic was taken 3 months ago.
We're at a party tomorrow so will try and get some up to date pics.
		
Click to expand...

So that is why you want the photos! Just to pose on here! I did wonder lol!


----------



## MerrySherryRider (8 July 2014)

Yes, the cat's teeth were fine and she was cured of the plague (!) but she was only five when the thread started, so it's only fair to tell you she's now a very old great, great grandmother with a fine set of gums. 

Fine horse, PM. He wears his browband and creaky old rider well.


----------



## FionaM12 (8 July 2014)

lastchancer said:



			I have no idea why a simple preloved number request would run to 43 pages, and I'm not gonna read the whole thread.
		
Click to expand...

You need to tweak your settings. Only 11 pages on mine.


----------



## TBB (9 July 2014)

Glad to hear puddy cats ok, but how did a thread about looking for a saddle (or a contact number to buy a saddle) end up discussing a cats dental problems? curious now but haven't the will to read it all to find out.


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## MadJ (9 July 2014)

Posted just because I wanted to be post number 430 and I like cats.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (9 July 2014)

Should I get OMO vaccinated against this cat plague that is sweeping the country?


----------



## OldNag (9 July 2014)

I would if I were you. Sounds nasty.


----------



## Maclinda (9 July 2014)

So I'm sitting in the sun in Portugal, and I keep seeing this thread come up and have finally decided to read it, (seriously that's a good hour of my life I'm never getting back!). I'm not going to give my opinion, but will say to OP, bet you wished you had just paid your fiver and had never asked for number!


----------



## MerrySherryRider (9 July 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			Should I get OMO vaccinated against this cat plague that is sweeping the country?
		
Click to expand...

The plague wasn't too difficult to treat, but a serious epidemic of Vetbillitis is sweeping the country. There is no cure.


----------



## Pinkvboots (9 July 2014)

Arzada said:



			How does Preloved membership work with couples? Families? Does everyone buy their own membership at £5 per person? Or does eg  one person buy membership and share it with their OH for free? Or is there a couple/family membership option costing more than £5?
		
Click to expand...

 I was thinking this as my sister pays the fiver so if I see a new advert I just use her log in to access it, we are from the same family why not or do we both have to have our own! Well tough cos I am not buying one

Edited to say I read up to this point as it started to get quite boring I still had over twenty pages to read, so sorry if this is now old news.


----------



## Fun Times (9 July 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			Should I get OMO vaccinated against this cat plague that is sweeping the country?
		
Click to expand...

Cud someone please get me the number for a vet offering this vaccination. I would do it myself but I dont want to pay the fiver....


----------



## undergroundoli (9 July 2014)

Fun Times said:



			Cud someone please get me the number for a vet offering this vaccination. I would do it myself but I dont want to pay the fiver....
		
Click to expand...

Could someone pay to vaccinate my cat for me? I want to save my cash for droopy, blingy browbands. 

I was sad I was going to leave this thread & go away for the weekend. Was amazed to see it was still running. Bit sad its not all moral compasses any longer though.

Edited to point out I can use cud & could correctly, so totes deserve my cat vaccinated


----------



## Red-1 (9 July 2014)

undergroundoli said:



			Could someone pay to vaccinate my cat for me? I want to save my cash for droopy, blingy browbands. 

I was sad I was going to leave this thread & go away for the weekend. Was amazed to see it was still running. Bit sad its not all moral compasses any longer though.

Edited to point out I can use cud & could correctly, so totes deserve my cat vaccinated 

Click to expand...

I was about to send you the money as I was impressed with your English writing skills, sadly I then realised what you were going to spend the money on, so NO. Sorry.


----------



## MerrySherryRider (9 July 2014)

And it's a no from me too, Undergroundoli. Using the word totes or even totally, in that context, shows your moral compass is skewed. You shameless woman.


----------



## Spilletta (9 July 2014)

I'm not a droppy browband person, but still want to see PaddyMonty's photos from the other day!  

If I was into browband bling, I would check Preloved first, and would pay the fiver if the bling of choice was a new advert and I couldn't risk another blinger getting there first...

But, Preloved and PM's photos aside, I love the cat appreciation aspect of the thread, and also need more of FL's cats and hamsters!

But have to also say that 'cud' pains me.  However, not that badly as I have followed the thread from the start


----------



## Fides (9 July 2014)

Spilletta said:



			But have to also say that 'cud' pains me.  However, not that badly as I have followed the thread from the start 

Click to expand...

It almost pains me as much as people who say 'brought' when they mean 'bought'


----------



## Moomin1 (9 July 2014)

Fides said:



			It almost pains me as much as people who say 'brought' when they mean 'bought'
		
Click to expand...

A popular one lately appears to he defiantly instead of definately. 
Drives me insane.


----------



## _GG_ (9 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			A popular one lately appears to he defiantly instead of definately. 
Drives me insane.
		
Click to expand...


Or even definitely, lol. 

I am in total agreement though and have seen the misspelling create some hilarious sentences!!!


----------



## Moomin1 (9 July 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Or even definitely, lol. 

I am in total agreement though and have seen the misspelling create some hilarious sentences!!! 

Click to expand...

Haha yes quite! I'm on my phone staring through one eye in the dark so autocorrect got me there! Lol!


----------



## _GG_ (9 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Haha yes quite! I'm on my phone staring through one eye in the dark so autocorrect got me there! Lol!
		
Click to expand...

You're a one eyed nocturnal technophobe???


----------



## Moomin1 (9 July 2014)

_GG_ said:



			You're a one eyed nocturnal technophobe??? 

Click to expand...

Close. I'm a knackered, half asleep pregnant person who clearly is incapable of using predictive text!


----------



## Fides (9 July 2014)

For the record separate always has 'a rat' in it...


----------



## Spilletta (9 July 2014)

Pls cud someone borrow me a number of of Preloved?  I has seen a dictionary for sale.  My friend as brought one and she really likes it.




(Joke!  I am as prone to typos, grammar mistakes, etc, as the next person  !)


----------



## FinnishLapphund (10 July 2014)

Spilletta said:



			I'm not a droppy browband person, but still want to see PaddyMonty's photos from the other day!  

If I was into browband bling, I would check Preloved first, and would pay the fiver if the bling of choice was a new advert and I couldn't risk another blinger getting there first...

But, Preloved and PM's photos aside, I love the cat appreciation aspect of the thread, and also need more of FL's cats and hamsters!

But have to also say that 'cud' pains me.  However, not that badly as I have followed the thread from the start 

Click to expand...

I hope these will amuse you...


























How was it now, did you also have to pay £5 to sell things on Preloved? 









I hope Fluffy didn't forget to talk about the fees









Some hamsters does anything for popcorns 









But eating all those popcorns, and run in those wheels can make them tired


----------



## Spilletta (10 July 2014)

Great, thanks FinnishLapphund, love them!


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## Red-1 (10 July 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Or even definitely, lol. 

I am in total agreement though and have seen the misspelling create some hilarious sentences!!! 

Click to expand...

There was one on my phone news feed today, from an exam marker for a school. One exam candidate had confidently written on his exam paper that "The hole in the Ozone layer has been caused by ar$ehole$".

The exam marker presumed they meant aerosols, but I am not sure, I heard that cows were the worst offenders?

Edited to say HHO has no sense of humour, I had to edit to put the $ signs in because holes in the ozone were caused by *********** did not have the same ring to it. 

Obviously the exam candidate put "s" not "$" !!!!!


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## cptrayes (10 July 2014)

My favourite was the opening sentence in a very expensive consultants report about the company I was working for ' xyz has a number of desperate methods of project management'  At least, I think it was a mistake for disparate, but perhaps not, the place was a bit of a free for all '


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## cptrayes (10 July 2014)

You guys are all barking, has anyone told you  ?


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## PaddyMonty (10 July 2014)

Spilletta said:



			I'm not a droppy browband person, but still want to see PaddyMonty's photos from the other day!
		
Click to expand...

Report from keysoe yesterday in comp section with lots of pics.


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## Penny Less (10 July 2014)

My dog sleeps exactly like that last pic of the hamster !


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## Spilletta (10 July 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			Report from keysoe yesterday in comp section with lots of pics.
		
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Thank you.  Lovely horse, and well done on your results.  Good luck for your next competitions.  I didn't comment on the thread itself as I'd have probably mentioned Preloved and caused a whole load of confusion.  I can't help laughing at the thought of people seeing this thread and going straight to the end.  Can't imagine what they must think.

Actually, I can...



cptrayes said:



			You guys are all barking, has anyone told you  ?
		
Click to expand...


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## Red-1 (10 July 2014)

Ah, but a lurking thread is more like a natural conversation, it ebbs and flows......


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## FinnishLapphund (10 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You guys are all barking, has anyone told you  ?
		
Click to expand...

:wink3:







Did anyone say something?


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## FinnishLapphund (10 July 2014)

Spilletta said:



			Great, thanks FinnishLapphund, love them!
		
Click to expand...

You're welcome. 




Spilletta said:



			... I can't help laughing at the thought of people seeing this thread and going straight to the end.  Can't imagine what they must think...
		
Click to expand...

To try and explain the thread to anyone going straight to the current end of this thread, some people feel very strongly that stealing is wrong.















(Maybe Karma will punish them






)



But some people sounds as if they think it is sometimes acceptable

















Some don't want to share
















Whereas others don't mind to share


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## SpringArising (10 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			A popular one lately appears to he defiantly instead of definately. 
Drives me insane.
		
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You mean definitely?


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## keri66 (10 July 2014)

I have a colleague who uses hes instead of his it drives me mad


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## Moomin1 (10 July 2014)

SpringArising said:



			You mean definitely?
		
Click to expand...

Keep up


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## keri66 (10 July 2014)

I can't stand it when people say out of a stallion instead of by a stallion. And people calling spotted ponies apaloosa's. But I am a crotchety baggage &#9786;


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## Goldenstar (10 July 2014)

Wow HHO at it's best , some great photos though .


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## nervous nelly (10 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Ooh, I'm going near an asda Wednesday, I'll check it out . I found it in a spar in Grange over Sands years ago and I've never seen it since.
		
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I live in grange over sands and have just been to try and find said popcorn I couldn't find it


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## TBB (10 July 2014)

Deleted as it didn't even make sense to me.


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## Goldenstar (10 July 2014)

TBB said:



			Deleted as it didn't even make sense to me.
		
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Lord Lucan has the cat doesn't he ?
Or was it Elvis .


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## cptrayes (10 July 2014)

nervous nelly said:



			I live in grange over sands and have just been to try and find said popcorn I couldn't find it 

Click to expand...

It was about five years ago. I still hanker after it.

 I liked your little town, though we do now always call it Grange over Silt


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## Fun Times (10 July 2014)

TBB said:



			Deleted as it didn't even make sense to me.
		
Click to expand...

Uh oh. Isn't that an early symptom of cat plague? Get your dentist to check out your rear end.


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## nervous nelly (10 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			It was about five years ago. I still hanker after it.

 I liked your little town, though we do now always call it Grange over Silt 

Click to expand...

Yeah it's currently grange-over grass, I work in a hotel and you would be suprised the amount of people who come to us expecting a lovely beach holiday where they can go swimming and build sand castles


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## TBB (10 July 2014)

Fun Times said:



			Uh oh. Isn't that an early symptom of cat plague? Get your dentist to check out your rear end.
		
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Now you have me worried ! What are the next symptoms to look out for? Who can I sue for giving it to me?


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## Fun Times (13 July 2014)

TBB said:



			Now you have me worried ! What are the next symptoms to look out for? Who can I sue for giving it to me?
		
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Firstly you can try suing anyone you have ever bought a horse off, but only if you have owned said horse for at least four years. Also, sue the vet that vetted the cat for you. What cat you ask? Ah yes you must track down the cat. You will need an animal communicator for this. If you send me a picture of all the cats in your neighbourhood I will be able to do this for you for my standard fee of £300. Once the cat has been located you need to take a sample of its hair. If you end up clipping more than fifty percent of the cat, you must rug it till it looks like the mitchellin man. Dont bother to sue the cat, they are wily ******* in court.


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## Cheshire Chestnut (13 July 2014)

The most annoying thing about this entire thread is that it was spelt 'cud' not 'could'. *shudders*


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## Red-1 (13 July 2014)

Have you tried the new Walkers Sensations Popcorn, Sweet Cinnamon and Salt? 

Mmmmmmm!

And on offer at our local Co-Op.


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## cptrayes (13 July 2014)

Red-1 said:



			Have you tried the new Walkers Sensations Popcorn, Sweet Cinnamon and Salt? 

Mmmmmmm!

And on offer at our local Co-Op.
		
Click to expand...


Yuk!!!  That sounds awful....


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## hairycob (13 July 2014)

So to summarise: a cat with the plague fed popcorn to a hamster in a cinema in Grange-Over -Sands but it turned out the popcorn was stolen? Is that right?


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## Red-1 (13 July 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Yuk!!!  That sounds awful....
		
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Yup, sounds awful, tastes yummy. 

The other flavours were truly awful though. Even binned the popcorn!


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## Fides (13 July 2014)

Red-1 said:



			Have you tried the new Walkers Sensations Popcorn, Sweet Cinnamon and Salt? 

Mmmmmmm!

And on offer at our local Co-Op.
		
Click to expand...


It's lovely! But not as nice as the Tesco Thai green curry one...


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## Mrs B (13 July 2014)

I like the Portlebay bacon & maple syrup one ... *drools*


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## Exploding Chestnuts (15 July 2014)

Red-1 said:



			Have you tried the new Walkers Sensations Popcorn, Sweet Cinnamon and Salt? 

Mmmmmmm!

And on offer at our local Co-Op.
		
Click to expand...

When you say on offer, it that a special offer for one week only?


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## Red-1 (15 July 2014)

In response to Mrs D123.......I have no idea. "On Offer" seems to mean is offered in an extra large display near the door.....


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## dollyanna (15 July 2014)

I've just signed on after a few days away and a) can't believe this thread was still alive and kicking but b) now I'm going to have to backtrack about 25 pages just to find out what you're all on about now!! I've got as far as popcorn and good photos, need a LOT more time to recap this properly :-D :-D


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