# Crate or not?



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

Hi as many of you now know I am getting a Cavachon puppy in 3 weeks time. She will be 8 weeks old. I will be with her for the first week then after that will be at work during the day home bout 4. My neighbour will be popping in at lunchtime and will take her out. I have seen that most people advise crating a puppy? When I had puppies years ago we never sid just let them loose. So my question is what is best for her to crate or not??

Thanks x


----------



## ILuvCowparsely (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			Hi as many of you now know I am getting a Cavachon puppy in 3 weeks time. She will be 8 weeks old. I will be with her for the first week then after that will be at work during the day home bout 4. My neighbour will be popping in at lunchtime and will take her out. I have seen that most people advise crating a puppy? When I had puppies years ago we never sid just let them loose. So my question is what is best for her to crate or not??

Thanks x
		
Click to expand...


 Yes I say its best.  We crate ours and mine is now 6 months and still crated pm.


----------



## MurphysMinder (24 January 2015)

At 8 weeks she is not going to be able to hold from peeing if she is only being let out once during the day.  I am normally a fan of crates but in this case I would give her more space and newspaper or puppy pads to do her business on. Is there anyone else you can get to come in and spend time with her. That is a long time to leave a tiny pup.


----------



## Kaylum (24 January 2015)

Never crated but its up to the owner there is no right or wrong way.


----------



## galaxy (24 January 2015)

Crate without question. Most important to me she will then be safe from chewing things she's shouldn't while you are out.

I crate trained my boy and at 5 yrs he still loves his crate and is in there at night and when I go out. It makes toilet training much easier too.

How many hours will your puppy be left between visits? at 9 weeks she will need the toilet very frequently.


----------



## Dobiegirl (24 January 2015)

Crates were not designed for puppies to be shut up for long periods, its too long to leave a puppy as young as this without a break even with someone coming in at lunchtime..

We crate  trained our puppy but she was not in  it for hours on end only when she couldn't be supervised and at night and we got up in the night to let her out as well.

At coming up to 4yrs old she still sleeps in her crate and loves it.


----------



## Apercrumbie (24 January 2015)

Hmmm I think you might need to get someone to come in twice a day for a while as that is a long time for a small puppy to be left, and probably too long to be crated.  The problem will be that if she is left for quite that long when so young she could very easily become rather upset and destructive.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

I am not sure if I can get any one else to come in during the day. It is hard as most people I know are at work in the day. My neighbour is going to come in at 12 and stay for a hour or so. I will try to find someone else as well. Thanks for all your advice I think I will crate her to begin with and then when she gets used to the routine she can go in the kitchen x


----------



## MyBoyChe (24 January 2015)

I used a crate with all 3 of my current dogs having never used one before in nearly 40 years.  The reason I used one was for the pups safety as at the time of getting each pup I had an older dog and when my back was turned I wanted to be sure nothing happened.  The longest they were ever crated for was 2 hours, OH and I adjusted out work patterns for the first 4 months with each pup until we were sure the new pack was settled.  We have an open plan ground floor and use a stair gate to stop them getting upstairs. They have never been crated overnight or whilst we are out (except for those first few months until big enough not to get squashed).  IMO you cannot use a crate for that length of time, it is meant to be a training tool, you wont be teaching it much if you shut it in and then go out.  If the pup needs the toilet and cant get out of the crate it will wet its bed, effectively.  It wont be able to tell you it needs to go out or at least go nearer the door to the garden.  Could you maybe build a larger play pen area for the pup, leave the crate open within it with the bedding in and a cover over to make a nice safe den and leave toys, water and toilet pads nearer to the doorway.  That way you are encouraging the pup to behave within a slightly larger area but still encouraging use of the crate for sleeping in.  Not ideal to be out for that long really as even with a lunchtime visit that is a long time for a young pup to be left to its own devices.  You may find he/she will start to find her own amusements


----------



## zigzag (24 January 2015)

Our puppy is ten weeks old, and she goes for a pee every hour, and a poo at least 3 times in the time you are at work, too long to leave a puppy on her own


----------



## planete (24 January 2015)

A puppy pen in part of a room with a crate open in it for a den is the best idea. The pup can then have a sleeping area distinct from a toilet area and still be safely kept away from chewable cables and furniture.

My biggest objection to the long hours the pup will be alone is the lack of socialisation and stimulation that is absolutely essential at that age, not just at the week-ends either.  I have a rescue here right now who has obviously missed out on crucial socialisation.  Her fearfulness of anything foreign to the pack makes her very aggressive.  She will growl and lunge at pushchairs, people moving a bit strangely, anything really, and if given a chance (she is not) she will bite.  It can be worked on, but it is a massive problem and she will probably always have to be managed to keep her and everybody safe.  I would think very carefully about the consequences of so much isolation on a young pup.  She may also develop stereotypies out of boredom just like a horse would.


----------



## Annette4 (24 January 2015)

We crated ours and it was totally worth it. I also wouldn't be leaving a pup that long though. We had someone coming in twice a day plus a housemate who worked different hours to us. She also went to doggy daycare once a week for socialisation.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

yes that is a good idea a crate with a pen as well so she can sleep and then use the training pads.  I did check with my vet and she said that puppies sleep a lot and as long as someone spends time with her in the day she will be fine. She will be coming to the stables every evening so will have plenty of socialising. Thanks for  the puppy pen idea I shall get one x


----------



## Dobiegirl (24 January 2015)

When we approached the breeder when we wanted to buy our puppy she gave us the 3rd degree and she was very anxious that our pup would not be spending hours alone, we would not have dreamed of entertaining having a puppy if someone was not around for most of the day. Pups at this age are like little sponges and if no one is around to stimulate them then they will either be bored out of their brains or be learning bad habits. I dont see how you can possibly house train your puppy under these circumstances and you should either have a rethink about having a puppy or have people coming in 3/4 times during the day. Yes pups do sleep a lot but they have very active periods in between.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

Dobiegirl said:



			When we approached the breeder when we wanted to buy our puppy she gave us the 3rd degree and she was very anxious that our pup would not be spending hours alone, we would not have dreamed of entertaining having a puppy if someone was not around for most of the day. Pups at this age are like little sponges and if no one is around to stimulate them then they will either be bored out of their brains or be learning bad habits. I dont see how you can possibly house train your puppy under these circumstances and you should either have a rethink about having a puppy or have people coming in 3/4 times during the day. Yes pups do sleep a lot but they have very active periods in between.
		
Click to expand...

I intend to have a dog flap eventually. I think it will be fine as I am a Teacher so have 2 weeks at Easter and 7 weeks in the summer so it wont be a problem in the long run and my neighbour will give her lots of stimulation at lunch time x


----------



## Amymay (24 January 2015)

Sorry hihosilver, I know you really want this pup - but I simply don't think your set up for one.

It's simply awful to think of such a young pup spending so much time alone.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

amymay said:



			Sorry hihosilver, I know you really want this pup - but I simply don't think your set up for one.

It's simply awful to think of such a young pup spending so much time alone.
		
Click to expand...

I really do want her and will make it work x


----------



## Nettle123 (24 January 2015)

Have to agree with most of the posters about leaving a pup for such long hours. Even with a neighbour generously visiting for and hour a day the puppy will be very lonely and impossible to housetrain. 

We always had adult dogs before and I was amazed how much harder it was with our pup and wouldn't have managed if I hadn't been home all day. For the first 6 months really Paddy would go out almost every hour either for the loo or to play. I would have hated to think of him spending hours on his own.

Its a lovely idea having a puppy but its much harder work than you imagine.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

Nettle123 said:



			Have to agree with most of the posters about leaving a pup for such long hours. Even with a neighbour generously visiting for and hour a day the puppy will be very lonely and impossible to housetrain. 

We always had adult dogs before and I was amazed how much harder it was with our pup and wouldn't have managed if I hadn't been home all day. For the first 6 months really Paddy would go out almost every hour either for the loo or to play. I would have hated to think of him spending hours on his own.

Its a lovely idea having a puppy but its much harder work than you imagine.
		
Click to expand...

I know how hard work puppies can be and in a ideal world she would not have to be left, however she will be loved and eventually have a dog walker- a lot of dogs have so much worse x


----------



## GeeGeeboy (24 January 2015)

Nettle123 said:



			Have to agree with most of the posters about leaving a pup for such long hours. Even with a neighbour generously visiting for and hour a day the puppy will be very lonely and impossible to housetrain. 

We always had adult dogs before and I was amazed how much harder it was with our pup and wouldn't have managed if I hadn't been home all day. For the first 6 months really Paddy would go out almost every hour either for the loo or to play. I would have hated to think of him spending hours on his own.

Its a lovely idea having a puppy but its much harder work than you imagine.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this. I have a 16 week old puppy and only now am beginning g to leave her alone for short periods of time. When I got her at 8 weeks, she needed constant attention , it's not fair to leave a pup that long.


----------



## numptynoelle (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			I intend to have a dog flap eventually. I think it will be fine as I am a Teacher so have 2 weeks at Easter and 7 weeks in the summer so it wont be a problem in the long run and my neighbour will give her lots of stimulation at lunch time x
		
Click to expand...

OP, I know this must be hard reading these responses, but have you considered waiting a few months and getting a pup to coincide with your summer holidays? You'd have more time together, especially when the pup is tiny.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

numptynoelle said:



			OP, I know this must be hard reading these responses, but have you considered waiting a few months and getting a pup to coincide with your summer holidays? You'd have more time together, especially when the pup is tiny.
		
Click to expand...

ah yes but she is a present for my daughters birthday and have paid £200 as a deposit plus we both have our hearts set on her as she has the best markings. she will be fine!


----------



## springtime1331 (24 January 2015)

Do you have other dogs? If not, she'll be so lonely without any form of company. Sorry to be blunt, but a puppy alone all day then dragged up the yard all evening might end up fairly unsocialised and not the perfect pet you've dreamed of for your daughter. As others have said, I predict you'll really struggle to house train and it becomes very frustrating all round if this doesn't happen. What about if the neighbour can't be bothered/ gets job/ gets ill etc then doesn't come round? Would you consider doggy daycare? That might really help and help make sure the puppy grows up to be a nice well balanced member of the family.


----------



## MurphysMinder (24 January 2015)

numptynoelle said:



			OP, I know this must be hard reading these responses, but have you considered waiting a few months and getting a pup to coincide with your summer holidays? You'd have more time together, especially when the pup is tiny.
		
Click to expand...

^^^  This.    I'm sorry OP but I really don't think you have thought through having a pup at this time,  it really isn't fair to leave a young pup for such a long time, both from a socialising and house training point of view.   Is the breeder aware the pup is going to be on its own for such a long time,  if so I am surprised they didn't try and persuade you to wait.
I suspect you won't be persuaded to change your mind,  so if you do go ahead, please think very carefully about using a dog flap.   Whereas I think some of the "stolen" dogs we read about have maybe just escaped from gardens,  leaving such a small, easily picked up dog in an unsupervised garden is asking for trouble in my view.


----------



## druid (24 January 2015)

I'd add to the calls not get a pup now but quite frankly you don't seem to want to listen to what people are trying to tell you! It is verging on cruel to expect a pup that young to be left alone for so long. I've got a 5 month old spaniel pup and he is never left for more than three hours without a pee break and has another dog with him for company. It's all very well crating, penning etc but she needs company, stimulation and your house breaking will be nigh on impossible if she's constantly relieving herself on pads as she's got no other choice.


----------



## Amymay (24 January 2015)

Our dog uses our cat flap to go in and out. But only when we're  there. It's  locked when we go out.

I would also add, op, that my dog is my first dog. Working full time meant I simply wasn't  in a position to have one before. I've  given up work now so feel able to have a dog.

I couldn't  imagine leaving Daisy as a young pup.


----------



## springtime1331 (24 January 2015)

Ours too, I'm so paranoid about the dogs being stolen.


----------



## GeeGeeboy (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			ah yes but she is a present for my daughters birthday and have paid £200 as a deposit plus we both have our hearts set on her as she has the best markings. she will be fine!
		
Click to expand...

oh well, if she has the best markings that's ok then. Just ignore all the great advice you've been given on this thread and the other one .


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

MurphysMinder said:



			^^^  This.    I'm sorry OP but I really don't think you have thought through having a pup at this time,  it really isn't fair to leave a young pup for such a long time, both from a socialising and house training point of view.   Is the breeder aware the pup is going to be on its own for such a long time,  if so I am surprised they didn't try and persuade you to wait.
I suspect you won't be persuaded to change your mind,  so if you do go ahead, please think very carefully about using a dog flap.   Whereas I think some of the "stolen" dogs we read about have maybe just escaped from gardens,  leaving such a small, easily picked up dog in an unsupervised garden is asking for trouble in my view.
		
Click to expand...

Yes the breeder is aware and she said that the puppies sleep for most of the day and with my neighbour coming in she will be fine. Its very secure where I live and has electric gates so she will not be at risk with the dog flap. Plus my neighbour is always out in the garden come the spring time.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

druid said:



			I'd add to the calls not get a pup now but quite frankly you don't seem to want to listen to what people are trying to tell you! It is verging on cruel to expect a pup that young to be left alone for so long. I've got a 5 month old spaniel pup and he is never left for more than three hours without a pee break and has another dog with him for company. It's all very well crating, penning etc but she needs company, stimulation and your house breaking will be nigh on impossible if she's constantly relieving herself on pads as she's got no other choice.
		
Click to expand...

The post was about dog crating not about being cruel! cruel is leaving dog chained to a fence outside 24/7 or dumping a dog. I now know that I need to go on Ebay and buy a pen and a crate. I am going ahead with the purchase and if it doesn't work I can always think again and consider a doggy day centre. However I would rather not do this I don't want her to be messed around by other people. It will only be 5 weeks till Easter anyhow so I will see how she is till then.


----------



## MurphysMinder (24 January 2015)

Well I am going to bow out at this point.  It seems that both on this thread and your earlier one about Cavachons you really aren't interested in anyone elses opinion, and are determined to go ahead regardless.  I do wonder (and actually really hope) if your posts are wind ups and there isn't a a puppy at all.


----------



## Alec Swan (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			The post was about dog crating not about being cruel! cruel is leaving dog chained to a fence outside 24/7 or dumping a dog. I now know that I need to go on Ebay and buy a pen and a crate. I am going ahead with the purchase and if it doesn't work I can always think again and consider a doggy day centre. However I would rather not do this I don't want her to be messed around by other people. It will only be 5 weeks till Easter anyhow so I will see how she is till then.
		
Click to expand...




MurphysMinder said:



			Well I am going to bow out at this point.  It seems that both on this thread and your earlier one about Cavachons you really aren't interested in anyone elses opinion, and are determined to go ahead regardless.  I do wonder (and actually really hope) if your posts are wind ups and there isn't a a puppy at all.
		
Click to expand...

M_M,  you're right,  it's a wind-up.  No one can be quite that stupid! 

Alec.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

MurphysMinder said:



			Well I am going to bow out at this point.  It seems that both on this thread and your earlier one about Cavachons you really aren't interested in anyone elses opinion, and are determined to go ahead regardless.  I do wonder (and actually really hope) if your posts are wind ups and there isn't a a puppy at all.
		
Click to expand...

You can contact the breeder in Essex if you want! I will post photos in 3 weeks time. I do listen but am not a numpty and I as I said earlier she will have the best home ever with loads of exercise and food and love. Besides my daughter has her heart set on having her and I will not break my promise to her.


----------



## BSL (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			I really do want her and will make it work x
		
Click to expand...

Sometimes it's not what we want but whats best for the animal. The only way this will work, is if there is someone with this puppy the majority of the day.


----------



## Amymay (24 January 2015)

Why not ask the breeder to keep her for you until Easter? The pup will be a bit older (8 weeks is awful  young to leave the litter), and you'llget a fortnight to help settle her in to a routine.


----------



## Moomin1 (24 January 2015)

I can't abide people giving pets as birthday presents for kids.  Anyway, that aside, it is not acceptable to be crating a pup of that age for those lengths of time.  But it seems that you don't really care about that, so long as you get a lovely designer pup to hand your daughter on her birthday.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

I don't dispute that you want this pup but I think that you will struggle to make it work in a way that is fair to the pup and which stacks the odds in your favour such that you are likely to end up with a balanced, well-rounded dog without any behavioural issues.  In all honesty, I think you seriously need to rethink whether or not you are currently in a position to take on a young pup and provide it with the quality care that it deserves.

Do you realise how small the bladder is of a 9 week old pup of the type you are considering?  That pup needs to be taken outside to toilet EVERY hour; that is after every meal, after every drink, after every play and after every sleep.  You will struggle with house training in the set-up that you are considering, in fact, you may never achieve a 100% dry dog at all.  So, I hope you are prepared for the daily mess and the chore of washing if the pup soils its bedding as well as the puppy pads.

Of more concern, is the separation anxiety that this pup is likely to develop through being left for such long periods from such an early age.  What is your plan when the howling/screaming starts and the neighbours start complaining and as a result are perhaps less keen to be used as dog sitters?

Also, a 9 week old pup being taken to a stables will need SUPERVISING ALL THE TIME.  You can not expect it to wander around and keep out of harms way and/or mischief.

Yes, pups do sleep a lot when they are tired as a result of mental stimulation......that is TRAINING and interaction with their owner, other family members and other dogs.  To have a well-balanced dog this needs to happen consistantly throughout the day to coincide with their need for regular bursts of activity, their short attention span and need for regular naps.  Also, as the pup gets older it will sleep less and less.  What you will have on your hands at ten weeks of age will be unrecognisable to what the breeder has at six or seven weeks.  So, yes, the pup may sleep an awful lot NOW, but it is amazing how much difference a week can make in the development of these needy little beasts!  

If you really must get a dog, may I suggest that you consider taking on an adult rescue that is used to being left.  I believe that several people on here recommend greyhounds for such circumstance. No responsible breeder worth their salt would entertain selling a pup to someone in the situation that you describe. 

If you have found someone who is daft enough/money-grabbing enough to sell you a pup now, please do that pup a favour and cancel - even if it means losing your deposit.  Try putting the interests and welfare of the pup before those of your own....oh, and how about this for your daughters present, which would be more appropriate in my view.  http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Toys-R-Us/Toys/Soft-Toys/Animal-Alley-17-Large-Dog-Soft-Toy(0045564)

You are a teacher you say, therefore you must be educated and reasonably intelligent.  You have got a lot of good advice on here from experienced people who honestly have no axe to grind against you personally.  The ONLY thing that we all have in common is an interest in the welfare of dogs.

If you REALLY are intent on going ahead in spite of all this advice, PLEASE wait until you can find a litter that is ready to be rehomed at the start of your summer vacation from school. At least that way, the little one will have some chance of settling before being left, rather than being taken away from all its litter mates and one week later being left virtually on its own for the majority of the day.

PS  Out of interest, how old is your daughter?


----------



## Possum (24 January 2015)

amymay said:



			Why not ask the breeder to keep her for you until Easter? The pup will be a bit older (8 weeks is awful  young to leave the litter), and you'llget a fortnight to help settle her in to a routine.
		
Click to expand...

This. If you're that set on getting this particular puppy, this is the only thing that makes even a modicum of sense.  And if your daugter's old enough to get a puppy for her birthday, she's also old enough to understand that you have a responsibility to do the best thing by her, even if it means waiting for a while.


----------



## Apercrumbie (24 January 2015)

As a teacher, you have the perfect opportunity for bringing up a puppy every summer.  That is the only moment when you will have enough time to properly socialise, train and spend time with your puppy.  Our pup is 14 months now and is still too young to be left for the hours you are suggesting.  As we are a working family he goes to doggy daycare 2/3 times a week and the other days we make sure someone can pop in at least twice, preferably three times.  This isn't excessive by any means - in an ideal world it would be more.  Solitary dogs need far more company than you seem to realise.  Not only are you being cruel by doing this, you are setting yourself up for serious behavioural problems which could one day endanger your child.  You say it could be worse - punching someone in the face is worse than slapping them, doesn't make it right.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			I don't dispute that you want this pup but I think that you will struggle to make it work in a way that is fair to the pup and which stacks the odds in your favour such that you are likely to end up with a balanced, well-rounded dog without any behavioural issues.  In all honesty, I think you seriously need to rethink whether or not you are currently in a position to take on a young pup and provide it with the quality care that it deserves.

Do you realise how small the bladder is of a 9 week old pup of the type you are considering?  That pup needs to be taken outside to toilet EVERY hour; that is after every meal, after every drink, after every play and after every sleep.  You will struggle with house training in the set-up that you are considering, in fact, you may never achieve a 100% dry dog at all.  So, I hope you are prepared for the daily mess and the chore of washing if the pup soils its bedding as well as the puppy pads.

Of more concern, is the separation anxiety that this pup is likely to develop through being left for such long periods from such an early age.  What is your plan when the howling/screaming starts and the neighbours start complaining and as a result are perhaps less keen to be used as dog sitters?

Also, a 9 week old pup being taken to a stables will need SUPERVISING ALL THE TIME.  You can not expect it to wander around and keep out of harms way and/or mischief.

Yes, pups do sleep a lot when they are tired as a result of mental stimulation......that is TRAINING and interaction with their owner, other family members and other dogs.  To have a well-balanced dog this needs to happen consistantly throughout the day to coincide with their need for regular bursts of activity, their short attention span and need for regular naps.  Also, as the pup gets older it will sleep less and less.  What you will have on your hands at ten weeks of age will be unrecognisable to what the breeder has at six or seven weeks.  So, yes, the pup may sleep an awful lot NOW, but it is amazing how much difference a week can make in the development of these needy little beasts!  

If you really must get a dog, may I suggest that you consider taking on an adult rescue that is used to being left.  I believe that several people on here recommend greyhounds for such circumstance. No responsible breeder worth their salt would entertain selling a pup to someone in the situation that you describe. 

If you have found someone who is daft enough/money-grabbing enough to sell you a pup now, please do that pup a favour and cancel - even if it means losing your deposit.  Try putting the interests and welfare of the pup before those of your own....oh, and how about this for your daughters present, which would be more appropriate in my view.  http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Toys-R-Us/Toys/Soft-Toys/Animal-Alley-17-Large-Dog-Soft-Toy(0045564)

You are a teacher you say, therefore you must be educated and reasonably intelligent.  You have got a lot of good advice on here from experienced people who honestly have no axe to grind against you personally.  The ONLY thing that we all have in common is an interest in the welfare of dogs.

If you REALLY are intent on going ahead in spite of all this advice, PLEASE wait until you can find a litter that is ready to be rehomed at the start of your summer vacation from school. At least that way, the little one will have some chance of settling before being left, rather than being taken away from all its litter mates and one week later being left virtually on its own for the majority of the day.

PS  Out of interest, how old is your daughter?
		
Click to expand...

I don't want a greyhound we have 2 cats. My neighbours are more like my best friends and have supported me getting a puppy. If she howls or cries one of them will go in and make sure she is ok. There are lots of friendly dogs at the yard and yes she will be supervised while at the stables. My daughter is 8. I realise that you all have the interest of the welfare of the puppy and I can see how I might be coming across. As I said previously I will try for the first 5 weeks and then go from there.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			As I said previously I will try for the first 5 weeks and then go from there.
		
Click to expand...

What?  And then dump her in a rescue when it goes pear shaped??

That's a rhetorical question, don't bother answering.

BTW...greyhounds can be fine with cats as others on here will testify.  Greyhound trust cat tests before rehoming.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			I can't abide people giving pets as birthday presents for kids.  Anyway, that aside, it is not acceptable to be crating a pup of that age for those lengths of time.  But it seems that you don't really care about that, so long as you get a lovely designer pup to hand your daughter on her birthday.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think you should be this personal tbh. My daughter has had a very tough time recently and has been really ill. So yes she can have a puppy for her birthday. At the end of the day its my decision. My daughter has lots more tests at hospital coming up and as soon as we saw the puppy and she knows she is having her for her birthday she has really cheered up.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

amymay said:



			Why not ask the breeder to keep her for you until Easter? The pup will be a bit older (8 weeks is awful  young to leave the litter), and you'llget a fortnight to help settle her in to a routine.
		
Click to expand...

Yes Amy May I did think of this but Breeder is going away and they are all sold and going before the end of Feb.


----------



## Amymay (24 January 2015)

What a shame.


----------



## Dobiegirl (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			Yes Amy May I did think of this but Breeder is going away and they are all sold and going before the end of Feb.
		
Click to expand...

Probably going on a cruise with all the dosh she has earned, OP Ive never seen a thread like this where everyone is saying the same thing, there are a lot of experienced dog people on here, youve asked for advice and like buying the Cavachon thread you have discounted it, as a teacher I find that very concerning. We cant force you to do anything but try you will be causing this lonely little puppy untold harm. I know you said your daughter is ill but even so that is no excuse for overlooking the welfare of this poor little puppy.

Please have the good sense to either have someone coming in 3/4 times a day or better still wait until the summer holidays.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			What?  And then dump her in a rescue when it goes pear shaped??

That's a rhetorical question, don't bother answering.

BTW...greyhounds can be fine with cats as others on here will testify.  Greyhound trust cat tests before rehoming.
		
Click to expand...

er no! I will find a puppy day centre! she will never be dumped!


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

OP....this is SERIOUSLY not the time to be buying a puppy.  You work as a teacher, which, depending on the level and OFSTED grading, can necessitate a LOT of out of hours work and stress.  You have a horse/pony presumably as you say you go to the stables.  You also have a poorly child. 

That child is asking for a puppy.  Do you know what one of the best lessons in life was that I was taught at an early age by my parents?  It was 'I want, doesn't get.'  If your child is seriously ill (I do hope not) then the last thing in the world you need is a puppy.  If you want/need to give your child a puppy fix there are ways around this WITHOUT the responsibility of dog ownership.  

If you seriously wish to consider this I would be happy to have a conversation with you via PM or even phone.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

Dobiegirl said:



			Probably going on a cruise with all the dosh she has earned, OP Ive never seen a thread like this where everyone is saying the same thing, there are a lot of experienced dog people on here, youve asked for advice and like buying the Cavachon thread you have discounted it, as a teacher I find that very concerning. We cant force you to do anything but try you will be causing this lonely little puppy untold harm. I know you said your daughter is ill but even so that is no excuse for overlooking the welfare of this poor little puppy.

Please have the good sense to either have someone coming in 3/4 times a day or better still wait until the summer holidays.
		
Click to expand...

Funny you should say that yes she is actually going on a cruise! I will try her crated and a pen till Easter then if she is unhappy make arrangements for a puppy day centre I do have the names of 2 in the area. Summer is not a option for me as going away with my daughter if she is well enough for 3 weeks.


----------



## Amymay (24 January 2015)

This is a heartbreaking  thread &#128550;


----------



## galaxy (24 January 2015)

You say IF the puppy howls or cries. There's no if... She is going to scream blue murder. She will never have been left alone before and then at 9 weeks old she will be left for at least 7 hours a day with someone visiting in the middle. When she is quiet she will probably be destroying something. Just hope it doesn't cause her any harm. You will be coming home to mess every day.

Edited to add... Pups will only sleep all day when trained to and are suitably tired and content, just like a baby. This pup will be distressed and worried. She won't sleep. 

Poor pup.


----------



## MyBoyChe (24 January 2015)

Im sorry but the more of this thread I read, the more I think that you really dont have the time for a dog right now.  You are a teacher, you have a sick child and a horse.  The pup will sleep a lot, thats true, but only for the first few weeks.  Like a baby, as they get older they require more stimulation to keep them occupied, what are you going to do then?  When are you going to fit in the 2 walks a day the pup will need as a minimum once it is a little bit older?  I know the dog is for your daughter, I dont know the nature of her illness but will she be able to do the walking and even if she can, at 8 years old would you want her to go off on her own?   I dont think you have really thought through the whole thing going forward, this is a 10 year + commitment if all goes well.  Of course, there's always preloved if it doesnt work out


----------



## Dobiegirl (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			Funny you should say that yes she is actually going on a cruise! I will try her crated and a pen till Easter then if she is unhappy make arrangements for a puppy day centre I do have the names of 2 in the area. Summer is not a option for me as going away with my daughter if she is well enough for 3 weeks.
		
Click to expand...

How will you know if she is unhappy, you will not be there to see it, as Amymay said this is a heartbreaking thread.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

OP...you say you will try for the first five weeks.....my last response was a tad flippant, I know, so apologies.  However, have you ever heard of classical conditioning and operant conditioning?  Suggest you google to understand just how important those first few weeks are in the life of your pup.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

amymay said:



			This is a heartbreaking  thread &#55357;&#56870;
		
Click to expand...

It seems to be Amy May but really not my intention. If you knew me personally you would know that the puppy will have the best life ever.


----------



## Lucyloo25 (24 January 2015)

Who is looking after the pup whilst you are away? 
If you're so determined you should be looking into pet sitters or doggy daycare now ready for when you get the pup so it has that important socialisation and can have some routine! It's not all that different to a baby! Would you have left your daughter on her own at 9 weeks old with only an hour of contact for a full working day, I know it's slightly different BUT not that different, puppy's need training, toilet training, socialisation and love! 
I feel whatever is said you will ignore or argue with but surely someone you know can talk some sense into you, have you spoke to your local vets they often have advertisements of people who will puppy sit or mind the puppy!


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			OP...you say you will try for the first five weeks.....my last response was a tad flippant, I know, so apologies.  However, have you ever heard of classical conditioning and operant conditioning?  Suggest you google to understand just how important those first few weeks are in the life of your pup.
		
Click to expand...

 apology accepted I do know that they should have company if possible and yes maybe I have let my heart rule my head but I am confident that it will work out.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			It seems to be Amy May but really not my intention. If you knew me personally you would know that the puppy will have the best life ever.
		
Click to expand...

Actually, the pup will have one HELL of bl""dy awful life.  That is probably not your intent...that I do believe....but believe me, that will be the outcome based on what you have posted here.  If you are any sort of animal lover, don't do it.


----------



## irishdraft (24 January 2015)

OP having read this thread I do wonder if it is the right course of action in getting a puppy for your sick daughter, having a 18 month old terrier the puppy time is still fresh in my mind, something no one has mentioned is that young puppies usually need 4 meals a day then need to be taken outside for toiletting I'm not sure how one visit from your neighbour in your working hours is going to achieve this. As others have said it is a vital time in a puppies life & they really do need people with them for the majority of the time. My pup was certainly not asleep for this length of time , he slept at night, in the day he was eating, pooing, playing with our other dogs & chewing up anything he could get his teeth into.I am lucky enough to have my horses at home but no way would I have had my pup around when I was dealing with them, he would be secure in his crate.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

Lucyloo25 said:



			Who is looking after the pup whilst you are away? 
If you're so determined you should be looking into pet sitters or doggy daycare now ready for when you get the pup so it has that important socialisation and can have some routine! It's not all that different to a baby! Would you have left your daughter on her own at 9 weeks old with only an hour of contact for a full working day, I know it's slightly different BUT not that different, puppy's need training, toilet training, socialisation and love! 
I feel whatever is said you will ignore or argue with but surely someone you know can talk some sense into you, have you spoke to your local vets they often have advertisements of people who will puppy sit or mind the puppy!
		
Click to expand...

yes this is something I will look in to.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			apology accepted I do know that they should have company if possible and yes maybe I have let my heart rule my head but I am confident that it will work out.
		
Click to expand...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO............google the terms I quoted please and TRY and understand this from the point of view of the living, breathing puppy.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

irishdraft said:



			OP having read this thread I do wonder if it is the right course of action in getting a puppy for your sick daughter, having a 18 month old terrier the puppy time is still fresh in my mind, something no one has mentioned is that young puppies usually need 4 meals a day then need to be taken outside for toiletting I'm not sure how one visit from your neighbour in your working hours is going to achieve this. As others have said it is a vital time in a puppies life & they really do need people with them for the majority of the time. My pup was certainly not asleep for this length of time , he slept at night, in the day he was eating, pooing, playing with our other dogs & chewing up anything he could get his teeth into.I am lucky enough to have my horses at home but no way would I have had my pup around when I was dealing with them, he would be secure in his crate.
		
Click to expand...

meal at 7 then 12 then 4 then 8 so she will get 4 meals


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

irishdraft said:



			OP having read this thread I do wonder if it is the right course of action in getting a puppy for your sick daughter, having a 18 month old terrier the puppy time is still fresh in my mind, something no one has mentioned is that young puppies usually need 4 meals a day then need to be taken outside for toiletting I'm not sure how one visit from your neighbour in your working hours is going to achieve this. As others have said it is a vital time in a puppies life & they really do need people with them for the majority of the time. My pup was certainly not asleep for this length of time , he slept at night, in the day he was eating, pooing, playing with our other dogs & chewing up anything he could get his teeth into.I am lucky enough to have my horses at home but no way would I have had my pup around when I was dealing with them, he would be secure in his crate.
		
Click to expand...

My daughter cant do much she gets tired so she will sit in the car with the puppy after a while


----------



## galaxy (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			meal at 7 then 12 then 4 then 8 so she will get 4 meals
		
Click to expand...

It will take you a long time to train her to go through the night without needing the toilet if you feed that late


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO............google the terms I quoted please and TRY and understand this from the point of view of the living, breathing puppy.
		
Click to expand...

yes I am and will enquire about dog sitters but don't really want a stranger in my house!


----------



## Dobiegirl (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			apology accepted I do know that they should have company if possible and yes maybe I have let my heart rule my head but I am confident that it will work out.
		
Click to expand...

Why are you confident it will work out, how many puppies have you had.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			yes I am and will enquire about dog sitters but don't really want a stranger in my house!
		
Click to expand...

What has a stranger in your house got do with classical and operant conditioning?


----------



## CAYLA (24 January 2015)

I actually suspected this was wynd up on your 1st post now I'm sure. You have chosen 2 very controversial subjects and seem not to be taking any advice. If the puppy trader knows you are leaving a puppy this long crate or no crate then she is a disgrace. As a rescue I'm sure I would take a flogging for refusing you a young puppy. But I would do just that. 1, you are wanting the puppy on an emotion whim and as a gift for an unwell child. I would be worried of this puppy upsets your child (be it mouthing) or just doing what puppies do you would be wanting to return as now your child is upset. 

2,It's wrong to crate for this long in such a young and energetic x of a breed and unacceptable and I'm the biggest crate training advocate in Britain lol.

Pay for a service if this must go ahead. Have someone come into the home to play with and let the puppy out. If you are lucky like I once did for clients you will get a well trained puppy (I was paid to train puppies) which I devoted 4 hours of the owners working day to do. ( was it expensive) for the owner?...It probably was but it was a must for the welfare of the puppies and it was not forever only the first 6 months of their lives until they could manage a good walk, Resulting in 4 very well adjusted and well behaved adult dogs that now only need 1 hour walks a day at the age of 4 as we still walk them all.


----------



## Amymay (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			It seems to be Amy May but really not my intention. If you knew me personally you would know that the puppy will have the best life ever.
		
Click to expand...

I have absolutely  no doubt that your intentions are 100%. But really, you have simply no conception of how hard it is having a puppy. The time and effort  you need to put in is enormous.  It was certainly  a shock to my system, and I don't work. 

As a teacher I imagine your days start early, and you're not home until 5ish. Then to the yard. Then dinner. Then work, then bed. 

Where does the puppy fit in - an hour or two of your time maybe? That's  akin to solitary confinement.  No dog should be kept in these circumstances,  let alone a puppy. Mine was 12 weeks when we collected her (a Bichon, and the earliest the breeder would let her go) and was still so tiny. To leave anything so tiny and vulnerable for hours on end is abhorrent. 

I could go on about late night toilet visits etc.

Op, please, please reconsider.

Do the right thing.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			yes I am and will enquire about dog sitters but don't really want a stranger in my house!
		
Click to expand...

In which case, as you are not there, do NOT get a puppy.


----------



## Dobiegirl (24 January 2015)

I agree with Cayla, the op is a troll, read through some of her replies especially the answer to my post where I said I expect the breeder was going on a cruise with all the money and the op said she was.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

Dobiegirl said:



			I agree with Cayla, the op is a troll, read through some of her replies especially the answer to my post where I said I expect the breeder was going on a cruise with all the money and the op said she was.
		
Click to expand...

Phew!  That's a relief!    Needn't waste any more time or effort then.


----------



## Amymay (24 January 2015)

Op, it says in your profile you like to walk your dogs....???


----------



## MyBoyChe (24 January 2015)

For once, I really do hope this is a troll posting


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

amymay said:



			Op, it says in your profile you like to walk your dogs....???
		
Click to expand...

yes I used to walk my neighbours old dogs at the weekend to help her as she has a hip complaint-that was 4 years ago. Both dogs have been PTS at the age of 13 and 14. My neighbour feeds my cats and has been a huge help to me especially when I was at the hospital. She didn't get another dog so is happy to be a godmother to Cariad the puppy and can sit with her for a hour or maybe even more, as the walls are thin between the houses she will go in if the puppy is howling x


----------



## {97702} (24 January 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			If you really must get a dog, may I suggest that you consider taking on an adult rescue that is used to being left.  I believe that several people on here recommend greyhounds for such circumstance. No responsible breeder worth their salt would entertain selling a pup to someone in the situation that you describe.
		
Click to expand...

I'm glad I read the whole thread where it was decided that the OP was a troll (what a pathetic inadequate individual they must be)  because I would NEVER recommend a greyhound to this sort of owner.....


----------



## GeeGeeboy (24 January 2015)

so basically you're neighbour is raising your pup for you?!  Just prepare her for having no time for herself over the next 8 weeks! This is ridiculous. What a shame for this poor pup.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

MyBoyChe said:



			For once, I really do hope this is a troll posting 

Click to expand...

No its real and I wouldn't normally mention my daughter- I haven't ever as I don't think its right too with all her illness. Very real. As I said will post photos I have some when we went to visit the breeder in Essex but think better to wait till 3 weeks time when she is officially mine.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

Lévrier;12785244 said:
			
		


			I'm glad I read the whole thread where it was decided that the OP was a troll (what a pathetic inadequate individual they must be)  because I would NEVER recommend a greyhound to this sort of owner.....
		
Click to expand...

I don't want a greyhound though!


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

There is no law either about leaving a dog alone for 5 hours!


----------



## {97702} (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			I don't want a greyhound though!
		
Click to expand...

A fact for which all greyhounds will be resoundingly delighted.  Troll off.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

Lévrier;12785244 said:
			
		


			I'm glad I read the whole thread where it was decided that the OP was a troll (what a pathetic inadequate individual they must be)  because I would NEVER recommend a greyhound to this sort of owner.....
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Levrier....the thread sort of evolved.  I now wouldn't recommend any living breathing creature to this individual whatsoever.


----------



## Dobiegirl (24 January 2015)

Calling your puppy Cariad which just happens to be the name of one of the groups which works with Puppylove to end puppy farming, give it up OP you had us going, just walk away.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

GeeGeeboy said:



			so basically you're neighbour is raising your pup for you?!  Just prepare her for having no time for herself over the next 8 weeks! This is ridiculous. What a shame for this poor pup.
		
Click to expand...

She lost her husband to cancer a year ago so she is really looking forward to coming and playing with her x


----------



## galaxy (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			There is no law either about leaving a dog alone for 5 hours!
		
Click to expand...

No but there are laws about noise pollution. You said the walls are paper thin to you neighbours on one side. What about the other side?

Again there is no IF in will the pup cry, poor little might is going to be very very distressed.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			There is no law either about leaving a dog alone for 5 hours!
		
Click to expand...

Try reading the Animal Welfare Act 2006....I think they could successfully prosecute you under that for leaving a 9 week old puppy for 5 hours in the circumstance you describe.


----------



## {97702} (24 January 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			Sorry Levrier....the thread sort of evolved.  I now wouldn't recommend any living breathing creature to this individual whatsoever. 

Click to expand...

No need to apologise GGD - I agree totally


----------



## Moomin1 (24 January 2015)

I really don't get the mentality of people who waste their time doing this sort of thing.  How sad.


----------



## Amymay (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			There is no law either about leaving a dog alone for 5 hours!
		
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with anything?

It's  a nine week old puppy....

I also suspect that your kindly neighbour  will very quickly move the pup in with her. Now that is a recipe for tension. But beats listening to it constantly  cry.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

amymay said:



			What does that have to do with anything?

It's  a nine week old puppy....

I also suspect that your kindly neighbour  will very quickly move the pup in with her. Now that is a recipe for tension. But beats listening to it constantly  cry.
		
Click to expand...

Because you are all making me feel like a criminal when all I want to do is provide a loving home and give my daughter something to focus on rather than her up and coming tests.  Yes my neighbour will be great.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			Try reading the Animal Welfare Act 2006....I think they could successfully prosecute you under that for leaving a 9 week old puppy for 5 hours in the circumstance you describe.
		
Click to expand...

No they wont hopefully they will be prosecuting real cruelty issues,


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

Dobiegirl said:



			Calling your puppy Cariad which just happens to be the name of one of the groups which works with Puppylove to end puppy farming, give it up OP you had us going, just walk away.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't know that. It the name of my great Grandma who was welsh of course!


----------



## Moomin1 (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			Because you are all making me feel like a criminal when all I want to do is provide a loving home and give my daughter something to focus on rather than her up and coming tests.  Yes my neighbour will be great.
		
Click to expand...

The pup won't care less about 'love'.  It needs time, attention and someone there most of the day.  I'm very sorry your daughter is ill, that must be heartbreaking for you, but it does not mean she should be given a living breathing animal when it is not going to have it's needs met.  Not only is it completely unfair and irresponsible with regard the pup, but it's hardly responsible parenting either - teaching a child that it's ok to have an animal for your own desire regardless of whether you can meet it's needs or not.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			I really don't get the mentality of people who waste their time doing this sort of thing.  How sad.
		
Click to expand...

I was actually asking about a crate if you remember? I have since purchased one on Ebay!


----------



## Moomin1 (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			No they wont hopefully they will be prosecuting real cruelty issues,
		
Click to expand...

Forget the word 'cruelty'.  It's not about 'cruelty'. It's about meeting the pups needs and giving it a reasonable and acceptable life.  You couldn't call a parent who doesn't really interact with their young child 'cruel' as such, but you certainly wouldn't agree that it's an acceptable level of parenting.  I would hope in any case.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			Because you are all making me feel like a criminal when all I want to do is provide a loving home and give my daughter something to focus on rather than her up and coming tests.  Yes my neighbour will be great.
		
Click to expand...

If you do not fulfill the basic needs of an animal under the Welfare Act quoted above, then yes, you could be prosecuted and yes, that would give you a criminal record.

I still have no doubt that your BLINKERED intent is good, but it is BLINKERED.  You may THINK that you are providing a loving home but you will not be meeting the basic needs of an 8 week old puppy and will be storing up heartbreak and stress for yourself and your daughter, who I am sure could do well without it at this time.

This is NOT flippant....could you not focus her on something else...maybe by buying her a budgerigar, hamster, gerbil, goldfish or even kitten?

I don't envy you your situation and hope you have support yourself for what must be a very stressful time....


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			The pup won't care less about 'love'.  It needs time, attention and someone there most of the day.  I'm very sorry your daughter is ill, that must be heartbreaking for you, but it does not mean she should be given a living breathing animal when it is not going to have it's needs met.  Not only is it completely unfair and irresponsible with regard the pup, but it's hardly responsible parenting either - teaching a child that it's ok to have an animal for your own desire regardless of whether you can meet it's needs or not.
		
Click to expand...

mmm Doctors that have been treating her will disagree. They say it is so important for her to be positive in hopefully her road to recovery.


----------



## Amymay (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			Because you are all making me feel like a criminal when all I want to do is provide a loving home and give my daughter something to focus on rather than her up and coming tests.  Yes my neighbour will be great.
		
Click to expand...

No. No one is making you feel like a criminal. But hopefully  re-considering.

Get her a kitten if you want to give her something  to focus on.


----------



## Moomin1 (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			mmm Doctors that have been treating her will disagree. They say it is so important for her to be positive in hopefully her road to recovery.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, it is important for her to be positive.  It's also important for you to be responsible and provide her with some positivity which does not involve mistreating an animal in the meantime.  I'm quite concerned in all honesty that someone who purports to be a teacher can actually show such a level of disregard for animal welfare.  I don't say that lightly either.  I hope this is a wind up.


----------



## Moomin1 (24 January 2015)

amymay said:



			No. No one is making you feel like a criminal. But hopefully  re-considering.

Get her a kitten if you want to give her something  to focus on.
		
Click to expand...

Can I just say though as well (no offence Amymay) that kittens need attention and shouldn't be left for long periods of time either, so I wouldn't suggest getting one of those.  A hamster/gerbil etc, yes, kitten or pup, no.


----------



## Amymay (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			mmm Doctors that have been treating her will disagree. They say it is so important for her to be positive in hopefully her road to recovery.
		
Click to expand...

How is anything about having this puppy 'positive'?

Why doesn't  the person who looks after your daughter in the day also take care of the puppy?


----------



## Moomin1 (24 January 2015)

amymay said:



			How is anything about having this puppy 'positive'?
		
Click to expand...

Don't ask silly questions Amymay - it's positive because it's a fluffy wuffy puppy who will look so cute with a birthday bow in it's hair...


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

amymay said:



			How is anything about having this puppy 'positive'?
		
Click to expand...

Certainly nothing from the pup's point of view.


----------



## PucciNPoni (24 January 2015)

oh god thanks for the laugh you guys. About a 1/4 of the way through I had my troll-dar on.


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			Certainly nothing from the pup's point of view.  

Click to expand...

When we went to see Cariad- daughter chose name it has been the first time since being ill that she has smiled. She now has a calendar in her room and is crossing out the days till we go and get her.


----------



## Moomin1 (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			When we went to see Cariad- daughter chose name it has been the first time since being ill that she has smiled. She now has a calendar in her room and is crossing out the days till we go and get her.
		
Click to expand...

What relevance is that? Of course your daughter will smile about it, and be excited.  It's not her that's the issue. It's your irresponsibility that's the problem.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			When we went to see Cariad- daughter chose name it has been the first time since being ill that she has smiled. She now has a calendar in her room and is crossing out the days till we go and get her.
		
Click to expand...

And your point is....?  Nothing you have said has changed my view...there is NOTHING in this debacle that is positive from the pup's perspective. You do not deserve to own a puppy and if ever I found out who you are in real life AND that this scenario pans out as I think it will, then I would have no hesitation whatsoever in reporting you to the authorities and pushing for a successful prosecution.


----------



## PucciNPoni (24 January 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			What relevance is that? Of course your daughter will smile about it, and be excited.  It's not her that's the issue. It's your irresponsibility that's the problem.
		
Click to expand...

don't let her wind you up.  This whole thread has been one long exhaustive attention seeking troll fest.  Don't feed the trolls, they soon go away.


----------



## gunnergundog (24 January 2015)

PucciNPoni said:



			don't let her wind you up.  This whole thread has been one long exhaustive attention seeking troll fest.  Don't feed the trolls, they soon go away.
		
Click to expand...

OK...am putting her on 'ignore' such that I can no longer see her posts....first time I've ever done this, but must admit she has got to be a troll...no one could be that ****


----------



## springtime1331 (24 January 2015)

Why not let the puppy live with the neighbours and your daughter can pop round for 30 mins a day to okay with the poor little mite? Failing that I expect, we'll be seeing the poor little scrap for sale on gumtree aged 9 weeks old due to "allergy problems"


----------



## Alec Swan (24 January 2015)

hihosilver,  just as a matter of interest,  what does your sidekick Tonto,  think of your plans?

I'm loving this,  it's a hoot!  

Alec.


----------



## GeeGeeboy (24 January 2015)

The scary thing is, I don't actually think the OP id a troll!


----------



## hihosilver (24 January 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			And your point is....?  Nothing you have said has changed my view...there is NOTHING in this debacle that is positive from the pup's perspective. You do not deserve to own a puppy and if ever I found out who you are in real life AND that this scenario pans out as I think it will, then I would have no hesitation whatsoever in reporting you to the authorities and pushing for a successful prosecution.
		
Click to expand...

mmm so now you are blackmailing me.


----------



## {97702} (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			mmm so now you are blackmailing me.
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha you really are a ***** troll aren't you - try looking up the proper definition of the word blackmail.....


----------



## Alec Swan (24 January 2015)

To constitute 'Blackmail',  there has to be an implied gain for the blackmailer.  The reality is that GGD is acting and speaking,  not on her(?) behalf,  but strangely,  yours,  your daughter's and this planned for puppy's.  That isn't blackmail.  I suspect that it's an attempt to point out that you're heading for a seriously hard time,  and that you and yours will be those who suffer,  should you be genuine and should you continue with your half baked,  and ill thought through plans.

I'm still not convinced that this puppy actually exists! 

Alec.


----------



## GeeGeeboy (24 January 2015)

I think we'll all be seeing the photos in a few weeks.


----------



## Nettle123 (24 January 2015)

Starting to agree with Alec now, puppy probably doesn't exist except in Jackanory Land. Feel a twit now for offering advice.


----------



## zigzag (24 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			I don't want a greyhound though!
		
Click to expand...

Greyhound trust wouldn't let you have one!


----------



## RunToEarth (24 January 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			hihosilver,  just as a matter of interest,  what does your sidekick Tonto,  think of your plans?

I'm loving this,  it's a hoot!  

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

I hope with every fibre of my being that this is a wind up. The thought of a puppy being bought to cheer daughter up and then spend mindless hours crated in solitude is just tragic, it makes my blood boil. I've had puppies, and I've done the leg work, and this latest puppy has taken up every moment I have. I love her to bits, but she was bought not least because we couldn't find seven hours in the week where she would be alone.


----------



## PucciNPoni (25 January 2015)

RunToEarth said:



			I hope with every fibre of my being that this is a wind up. The thought of a puppy being bought to cheer daughter up and then spend mindless hours crated in solitude is just tragic, it makes my blood boil. I've had puppies, and I've done the leg work, and this latest puppy has taken up every moment I have. I love her to bits, but she was bought not least because we couldn't find seven hours in the week where she would be alone.
		
Click to expand...

Here's the thing - people who don't give a ***** about the dogs spend very little time on their puppies and get away with it somehow - okay there will be problems along the way and the dog will get ignored, there will be behaviour issues and all that.  But the clueless will keep on being clueless and the dog will suffer.  It's only the people who actually care and put the work in to raising a puppy who end up having long sleepless nights, run around making sure that the dog has proper day time care and all the right training and socialisation.


----------



## Merlin11 (25 January 2015)

I got a puppy last summer after I had given up work. Had wanted one for a long time but waited until I could give it the time needed.  I knew they were a lot of work but was still surprised at just how much attention they need. She needed out at least ever hour and I was glad I got her in summer as it was easier to spend a lot of time with her in the garden. It felt like having a baby/toddler again. I think it will be very difficult for you to give it the time it needs. They just want to be with you all the time. She is 8 months now and she is only left for 3-4 hours a day at most. I have used a crate and found it great. She goes in it when I am out and at night. I think she would dislike the crate though if she was put in it for as long as you are planning so not sure that this would work.


----------



## PucciNPoni (25 January 2015)

Merlin11 said:



			I got a puppy last summer after I had given up work. Had wanted one for a long time but waited until I could give it the time needed.  I knew they were a lot of work but was still surprised at just how much attention they need. She needed out at least ever hour and I was glad I got her in summer as it was easier to spend a lot of time with her in the garden. It felt like having a baby/toddler again. I think it will be very difficult for you to give it the time it needs. They just want to be with you all the time. She is 8 months now and she is only left for 3-4 hours a day at most. I have used a crate and found it great. She goes in it when I am out and at night. I think she would dislike the crate though if she was put in it for as long as you are planning so not sure that this would work.
		
Click to expand...

Over the past 25 years or so I've raised six dogs to date - (one dog - the fifth I got at 10 months so he was already done all the hard stuff).  And I work with dogs for a living - and even I still found it hard raising the last one.  Some are needier than others, but they ALL demand attention and training and care.  Novices think it must be easy, shove them in a crate and all is okay. 

I use a crate now and again but rarely in the house. Mine will spend all day in the crate at shows except when they're being groomed or in the ring. They sometimes have to be crated at various other times.  However they all have to learn to be in it at some point.  If they have to go to the vet for example - for something routine like dental work - they have to be in a kennel pre and post anaesthetic.  How stressful if the dog has never been in one to suddenly be in one at a scary place like the vets?


----------



## Merlin11 (25 January 2015)

I should probably add that I don't expect the crate to be long term. Just for the puppy stage. When she is a bit older and calmer I would just leave her in the kitchen when I go out and at night.


----------



## hihosilver (25 January 2015)

Merlin11 said:



			I should probably add that I don't expect the crate to be long term. Just for the puppy stage. When she is a bit older and calmer I would just leave her in the kitchen when I go out and at night.
		
Click to expand...

Yes she will be in the kitchen eventually.


----------



## Clodagh (25 January 2015)

But surely as it is only a small dog it doesn't require socialisation or training? Not like a big dog would.
(JOKING!).


----------



## MurphysMinder (25 January 2015)

I just hope that, as my earlier suspicion, this is a wind up post, otherwise some poor pup has a miserable time ahead of her.


----------



## hihosilver (25 January 2015)

MurphysMinder said:



			I just hope that, as my earlier suspicion, this is a wind up post, otherwise some poor pup has a miserable time ahead of her. 

Click to expand...

No why on earth would it be? she will be absolutely fine. I am going ahead and breeder has said that as long as she has a visit in the daytime it will be fine to do what I am doing. For the first week I will be with her and then the second week I will leave school at 3.30 so I will be back at 4.


----------



## Alec Swan (25 January 2015)

MurphysMinder said:



			I just hope that, as my earlier suspicion, this is a wind up post, otherwise some poor pup has a miserable time ahead of her. 

Click to expand...

Have you not yet realised that the puppy concerned (assuming that it even exists!),  is the last thing to receive the OP's considerations?  

Alec.


----------



## galaxy (25 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			No why on earth would it be? she will be absolutely fine. I am going ahead and breeder has said that as long as she has a visit in the daytime it will be fine to do what I am doing. For the first week I will be with her and then the second week I will leave school at 3.30 so I will be back at 4.
		
Click to expand...

 Because as you've been told a hundred times, this pup will have never been left alone for a moment before and now you will be leaving it for 7 hours + a day. Even with the neighbour popping in this is far from 'fine' the poor thing is going to be distraught. Keep telling yourself it's all fine, but you've never had a puppy and all these people on here aren't just being mean, we've had puppies. We know.

Eta. A decent breeder wouldn't even let you have a puppy if you were leaving it like this. No rescue would either.


----------



## hihosilver (25 January 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Have you not yet realised that the puppy concerned (assuming that it even exists!),  is the last thing to receive the OP's considerations?  

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

Alec I am a caring person. I will do the best I can for the pup. My daughter is my number one priority and we both are really excited and cant wait till we go and get her home.


----------



## Dobiegirl (25 January 2015)

OP youve been outed, clear off wasting peoples time, dont bother posting again, I can imagine your next posts, what do I feed my puppy/ why is my puppy mouthing all the time,I cant house train my puppy. Once again you will be given lots of good advice and you will continue to argue against it because that is what TROLLS do.

Anyone want to speculate what her next post will be lol.


----------



## MyBoyChe (25 January 2015)

Ive just popped back on to this thread, surprised to find it still trundling along, I thought it had been decided the OP was a troll!!  If it is real then Im still as saddened as I was last night to think of a pup being brought into a set up as described.  Havent read all the posts since last night but has the OP said anywhere how she intends to fit the time the pup will need into her obviously busy life (ill child, horse, job) etc.  I know few of us are in the 'perfect' position to be dog owners but this really doesnt sound even half perfect, and whilst I dont give a flying fig for how much cleaning up and time the OP is going to need to do/find, I am so upset for a pup I dont even know being forced into an ill thought out routine.  Surely she is having us on!


----------



## Amymay (25 January 2015)

Op, Why doesn't  the person who looks after your daughter in the day also take care of the puppy?


----------



## Alec Swan (25 January 2015)

hihosilver said:



			Alec I am a caring person. I will do the best I can for the pup. My daughter is my number one priority and we both are really excited and cant wait till we go and get her home.
		
Click to expand...

Correction for you;  Accepting that other than having a bit of fun,  you're a care-less person.  Your daughter's claimed for needs and dreams are taking precedence,  over an impending problem which will almost certainly impact upon her,  eventually.  You continue to contradict those who clearly,  are vastly more experienced than you are,  and as you now claim to be a teacher,  I just wonder if you take the same pig-headed approach to your pupils,  as you do to the other questions which you continue to raise! 

I'm with Dobiegirl on this one,  and will watch with a degree of prediction,  for your future problems.  Your Trolling efforts are commendable,  I'd say. 

Alec.


----------



## hihosilver (25 January 2015)

Dobiegirl said:



			OP youve been outed, clear off wasting peoples time, dont bother posting again, I can imagine your next posts, what do I feed my puppy/ why is my puppy mouthing all the time,I cant house train my puppy. Once again you will be given lots of good advice and you will continue to argue against it because that is what TROLLS do.

Anyone want to speculate what her next post will be lol.
		
Click to expand...

I can post what I want and when I want. My post was about crating my puppy not about leaving her at home. I agree I have been given lots of good advice about the crating and a play pen which I have ordered for her. I am not a troll but that's fine if you think I am. I don't really care what you think tbh.


----------



## hihosilver (25 January 2015)

amymay said:



			Op, Why doesn't  the person who looks after your daughter in the day also take care of the puppy?
		
Click to expand...

My daughter is currently being phased back into school. This means that she goes from 9 and stays till lunchtime, She has 1-1 support. She then goes to her child carer ( been looking after her since she was 2) I usually pick her up at 5. We go to the stables 3 times a week in the evening. I have recently put my horse on part livery so we just go and see him. I have lots of support and a friend rides him in the week for me mainly hacking. When possible I ride at weekends. It is a possibility that the child carer could have the puppy in the afternoon if she gets on with her older dog.


----------



## Amymay (25 January 2015)

Ah right.

Well I'd definitely speak to the breeders about keeping the pup until Easter. Presumably, despite going on holiday, they have someone looking after their dog(s), so it ahould be quite easy to arrange. Plus they're bound to have had contingencies in place in case some of the pups didn't sell (well you would, wouldn't you?).


----------



## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (25 January 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Correction for you;  Accepting that other than having a bit of fun,  you're a care-less person.  Your daughter's claimed for needs and dreams are taking precedence,  over an impending problem which will almost certainly impact upon her,  eventually.  You continue to contradict those who clearly,  are vastly more experienced than you are,  and as you now claim to be a teacher,  I just wonder if you take the same pig-headed approach to your pupils,  as you do to the other questions which you continue to raise! 

I'm with Dobiegirl on this one,  and will watch with a degree of prediction,  for your future problems.  Your Trolling efforts are commendable,  I'd say. 

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

^^^^ Well said Alec. 

We will no doubt see this sad little pup come up on Preloved or one of the other websites in a wee while; under the heading "puppy for sale as daughter developed allergy to it"........ 

OP - a word of advice: go and buy a budgie instead; or better still a cat, who'd waste no time in telling it what it thought of you and ditch you PDQ for better digs.


----------



## hihosilver (25 January 2015)

amymay said:



			Ah right.

Well I'd definitely speak to the breeders about keeping the pup until Easter. Presumably, despite going on holiday, they have someone looking after their dog(s), so it ahould be quite easy to arrange. Plus they're bound to have had contingencies in place in case some of the pups didn't sell (well you would, wouldn't you?).
		
Click to expand...

I will check with the breeder today and see if she can keep the puppy till the Easter holidays.


----------



## Amymay (25 January 2015)

Good stuff.


----------



## Broodle (25 January 2015)

OP, just a thought that I don't think has been raised as yet. If you are 'lucky' enough to get a pup who will sleep while you're at work and your neighbour is not there (as the breeder has suggested) then you will have a pup who has 'day' and 'night' back to front. So you will need to expect regular disturbed nights with a wide-awake energetic puppy. Is this something that you and your daughter will be able to cope with? It's not at all realistic to expect a puppy to have only three short active spells per day (before work, lunch, after work) and then sleep through the night imo.

I think amymay's suggestion of asking the breeder to keep her on till easter is the best, if you are determined to have this pup...

Fwiw, I know people who have  successfully managed to raise pups while working full time, BUT they have started with older pups (12 weeks at least) and have arranged things so that someone can be at home full time for at least the first four weeks. Like others have said, you're setting yourself up for failure with your current plan, potentially leading to a very stressed, anxious puppy.


----------



## Cinnamontoast (25 January 2015)

amymay said:



			Sorry hihosilver, I know you really want this pup - but I simply don't think your set up for one.

It's simply awful to think of such a young pup spending so much time alone.
		
Click to expand...

Frankly disgusting. 




hihosilver said:



			I know how hard work puppies can be and in a ideal world she would not have to be left, however she will be loved and eventually have a dog walker- a lot of dogs have so much worse x
		
Click to expand...

Oh, so it's ok that the puppy will be poorly treated because there are others worse off? Christ, unbelievable. This poor scrap did not knock on your door demanding to come in.  I waited 10 years to be in the right house and job situation to ensure the pups had me for six weeks then the neighbour three times a day or the OH at home. 



hihosilver said:



			I don't think you should be this personal tbh. My daughter has had a very tough time recently and has been really ill. So yes she can have a puppy for her birthday. At the end of the day its my decision. My daughter has lots more tests at hospital coming up and as soon as we saw the puppy and she knows she is having her for her birthday she has really cheered up.
		
Click to expand...

So presumably lots of time at hospital, leaving the puppy alone again?? 




hihosilver said:



			There is no law either about leaving a dog alone for 5 hours!
		
Click to expand...

You will have an unsocialised, dirty, sad little puppy. Dreadful. This thread has really upset me. That poor dog. I guarantee the sire and dam have zero health tests and the price is good and elevated for a cross breed puppy with a stupid made up name. Utterly depressing reading.


----------



## planete (25 January 2015)

Happiness is NOT wanting something and getting it, op.  It is about feeling good about yourself by knowing that you can put another's needs before your own and never riding roughshod over another being for your own satisfaction.  Now that is something worth teaching a child.  I am sure you want your child to be happy , not merely to satisfy a wish that could so easily turn sour when the pup cries, messes endlessly and chews toys and furniture as is likely to happen?  And ends up preferring the company of your neighbour to that of your daughter?

You have focused your daughter's hopes of happiness on this pup.  I can understand your desperate desire to see her smile, any mother would feel the same.  BUT this is the wrong solution, it is short-termist and potentially harmful, not just to the pup but to your daughter.  She is eight.  She is old enough to reason, to watch and to draw conclusions.  She will realise if the pup is not developing as it should, she will suffer a huge disappointment if her pup turns out to be dirty, destructive and possibly badly socialised and nervy.  Instead of being a long-term joy, it will become the disappointment of her young life.  You need to present all this to her gently and help her accept that her happiness can be deferred for the good of the pup if you cannot ensure it will have the attention and stimulation all babies need, even animal ones, to grow up normally.  Could you take her to a good rescue centre, like your nearest DogsTrust, to learn about caring about the animals, even if she can only watch? If you first explain to her that everybody has to learn about looking after an animal before getting one.  She will learn that pups scratch, bite and poop and need endless care.  She will also pick up on the desperate plight of the animals whose lives have gone wrong.  I know it will not be the instant, fleeting cheering up you or her wanted but it will make her a happier, worthier individual in the long run.  And a stronger one.  If she is ill, she needs to develop her inner resources, fast, and it is your job to help her.  That is the one thing that will help her cope with what life is throwing at her.

I am sorry this sounds preachy.  If it is any comfort, put it down to my already long life and the endless mistakes I made before learning how to be happy.  I wish you and your daughter the very best life can give.


----------



## Alec Swan (25 January 2015)

planete said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..

I am sorry this sounds preachy.  &#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
Click to expand...

It isn't preachy,  it's probably the best reasoned,  and for those who will listen,  the most sensible reply to date.  That's with the caveat that the OP's situation,  the child and the puppy all exist,  of course! 

Alec.


----------



## RunToEarth (25 January 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			You will have an unsocialised, dirty, sad little puppy. Dreadful. This thread has really upset me. That poor dog. I guarantee the sire and dam have zero health tests and the price is good and elevated for a cross breed puppy with a stupid made up name. Utterly depressing reading.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, I've been thinking about this thread this evening whilst snuggling with my puppy. The most depressing thing is that OP's attitude is so common - my colleague leaves her whippet crated from 8am-6pm with a half an hour walk for five days a week, it's just heartbreaking.


----------



## {97702} (25 January 2015)

RunToEarth said:



			I agree, I've been thinking about this thread this evening whilst snuggling with my puppy. The most depressing thing is that OP's attitude is so common - my colleague leaves her whippet crated from 8am-6pm with a half an hour walk for five days a week, it's just heartbreaking.
		
Click to expand...

That is appalling, particularly with a whippet who are such amenable little souls


----------



## Patchworkpony (25 January 2015)

What I would really love is for OP sold to someone who forced her to spend several hours a day on her own, locked in a small crate, seeing no one, and treading in her own mess and of course never seeing the sun or feeling the grass under her feet just staring at a blank wall all day, day after day. Following this I would like to see her released from the crate in the evenings, when she was probably exhausted from loneliness, and played with intensely until the novelty wore off and then she would be put back in her cage again. But hey she might not appeal to anyone as she is possibly the wrong colour. Get a life OP and give that poor little puppy one or are you just too selfish!


----------



## Lucyloo25 (25 January 2015)

Hoping this is a wind-up! Where are you OP, maybe someone could recommend a good dogsitter or doggy day care near you? How happy will your daughter be when the puppy is keeping her up at night because she has been deprived of attention all day? 
I still don't think any good breeder would be happy for one of their pups to go to this kind of home.  Maybe you could get your daughter a rabbit or hamster or something which isn't such high maintenance?


----------



## minesadouble (25 January 2015)

Quite apart from the fact an 8 week old puppy is almost a full time job and no way would I have taken on a puppy in your circumstances OP I would worry that the puppy will not live up to the expectations of an 8 year old child. 
My youngest daughters were 5 and 7 when we collected our Vizsla pup, they were SO excited to be getting this absolutely gorgeous ginger wrinkly puppy that they had been looking  at pictures of for weeks before we collected him. However after a couple of weeks of incessant 'mouthing' of feet and hands with his needle sharp puppy teeth and his pathological obsession with retrieving and destroying their favourite cuddly toys they were somewhat less enamoured of him!!
Our boy is now 13 months old and the girls love him to bits but as a pup he was HARD work - myself and my eldest daughter and my hubby shuffled work/horses/going out to ensure he was never left alone for more than an hour max as a pup. I honestly do not know how we would have house trained him otherwise. I'm sorry but the whole thing sounds like a recipe for disaster to me 
Edited to add - he was left for an hour max once per day a 2 or 3 times a week - not multiple times daily.


----------



## PucciNPoni (25 January 2015)

Lucyloo25 said:



			Hoping this is a wind-up! Where are you OP, maybe someone could recommend a good dogsitter or doggy day care near you? How happy will your daughter be when the puppy is keeping her up at night because she has been deprived of attention all day? 
I still don't think any good breeder would be happy for one of their pups to go to this kind of home.  Maybe you could get your daughter a rabbit or hamster or something which isn't such high maintenance? 

Click to expand...

and even still, the pup wouldn't be able to go to a day care center until jabs completed I'd imagine.


----------



## Annette4 (25 January 2015)

RunToEarth said:



			I agree, I've been thinking about this thread this evening whilst snuggling with my puppy. The most depressing thing is that OP's attitude is so common - my colleague leaves her whippet crated from 8am-6pm with a half an hour walk for five days a week, it's just heartbreaking.
		
Click to expand...

God, I feel bad enough leaving ours together 8 - 5 with two dog walker visits.....


----------



## RunToEarth (26 January 2015)

Lévrier;12786247 said:
			
		


			That is appalling, particularly with a whippet who are such amenable little souls  

Click to expand...

I know, she wonders why it shreds it's bedding every day and anything within reaching distance from his crate - we've had a couple of heated debates about it and I've been told I am preaching. 

I just don't understand why you would get a puppy when you're going to be away regularly for more than a couple of hours a day and it will have no real company most of the time. I could not have a puppy if it were just me, no matter how much I wanted one, because there are a least two days a week when I am in a city office not particularly kitted out for it.


----------

