# Hounds riot onto calf



## Tiddlypom (6 November 2020)

Video apparently taken on 4/11/20 (last day of hunting before lockdown2) by antis. Alleged to be the High Peak Hunt. (I only know what I have seen and read on FB).




__ https://www.facebook.com/622461131133721/posts/3482504871795985



Antis do sometimes get carried away when hounds are merely running through fields containing livestock and ignoring them, but hounds are clearly after this calf, they follow it for a distance and follow it when it doubles back. It does escape, but whether it sustained injuries as it fled and jumped the stone walls is unclear.

Rioting onto livestock is, or should be, a capital offence for the hounds involved. What a mess.


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## Quigleyandme (6 November 2020)

Clearly rioting on the calf because it doubled back towards it’s mum and they were still locked on to it. Terrible. I agree TP. Those hounds should be culled.


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## palo1 (6 November 2020)

Grim.   If the footage is full and accurate then yes, rioting hounds need to be culled.


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## ester (6 November 2020)

Hunt didn't look like they were arriving to the situation with much urgency either.


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## webble (6 November 2020)

Doesn't surprise me sadly


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## Tiddlypom (6 November 2020)

ester said:



			Hunt didn't look like they were arriving to the situation with much urgency either.
		
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More sauntering up casually in their own good time, weren’t they.

Almost the whole pack were on the calf, only a few stragglers that fetched up late with the riders (don’t know if they are hunt staff, masters or members of the field) didn’t join in.

Not just the rioting hounds ought to be for the chop after this.


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## ester (6 November 2020)

Given that you can hear hounds well on the video (I know it's a sound that travels well) it seems odd to me that you don't hear the huntsman/any hunt staff at all as well as them not getting down that hill as quickly as they can.

It's always surprised me with hounds quite how effective hollering no at them has been, regardless of who is saying it, obv pre-riot state though.


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## Tiddlypom (7 November 2020)

Derbyshire Rural Crime Team are now requesting via Facebook that the person with the original footage contacts them.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (7 November 2020)

Oh dear, a bit of a car crash wasn't it..........

Easy to criticise, as we weren't actually there none of us, but on the face of it Hunt Servants really needed to have got on to that far sooner TBH as unfortunately what they've got now are Rogue-hounds who've learnt to go off-scent and chase ferally.

Hate to say it but the only solution now is to cull them.

Not a good day for anyone.


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## Goldenstar (7 November 2020)

Beagle crossed foxhounds or something like that .


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## ester (7 November 2020)

? They're a harrier pack


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## Tiddlypom (7 November 2020)

‘Since 1920 the pack has been bred entirely as Stud Book Harriers, and has featured prominently at the Peterborough Festival of Hunting, Rydal Hound Show, Great Yorkshire Show and Honiton.’

ETA Do harrier packs not call themselves harriers any more? I hunted with two harrier packs pre ban, they were definitely both called such&such harriers, rather than such&such hunt.


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## Steerpike (8 November 2020)

If I was the farmer I would be furious and bam them from my property.


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## Tiddlypom (8 November 2020)

Response from the High Peak Hunt to the video.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news...38.332489625.1604868659-1213046446.1604868657


_A spokesperson for the High Peak Hunt said: “Following a highly unusual incident that took place on November 4 in which some young hounds became distracted while carrying out lawful trail hunting activities, the High Peak Hunt can confirm that the hunt staff stopped the hounds as soon as possible and that they have never experienced anything of this nature in the past. _

_"Throughout the hunting day, the hounds are constantly distracted by the activities of the hunt saboteurs who have a history of shouting or blowing hunting horns and spraying unknown substances around the hounds in order to distract them. _

_"Our professional hunt staff, who devote their lives to their hounds, take pride in the education of the hounds which includes introducing them to animals and children plus other hazards that they might encounter during the hunting day including traffic. _

_"The Hunt can confirm that they have been in contact with the farmer to ensure the welfare of the cow and calf, and will, of course, take steps to ensure they avoid any possibility of a recurrence.”_

_ETA Nottingham Hunt Saboteurs said they rejected any insinuation they had caused the incident, saying they were "nowhere near" the hunt when it took place._


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## Tiddlypom (31 August 2021)

Update on the calf chasing incident.

https://www.buxtonadvertiser.co.uk/...calf-in-field-near-buxton-court-hears-3357291

The former huntsman of the High Peak Hunt has pleaded guilty to being in charge of a dog worrying livestock. It also emerged that the farmer had not given permission for a trail to be laid across his land. The calf did escape uninjured.

_Watts, of Alport, Bakewell, initially denied being in charge of a dog worrying livestock however he changed his plea to guilty before a trial got underway.
He was conditionally discharged for six months and made to pay £85 court costs and a £22 victim surcharge._


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## MinKo (31 August 2021)

The hounds should not be culled. They are doing what they are trained to do. The hunt master and staff should be on the hounds to contain them


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## Equi (31 August 2021)

Hounds are not trained to go after livestock.


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## Red-1 (1 September 2021)

They were hardly hunting within the law if they were trespassing. The farmer states they didn't have permission to lay a trail on his land, so they were doing.

I also believed the huntsman was responsible for the actions of staff, such as runners, paid ir unpaid, as they are down work in the name of the hunt and under the hunt organisation.

I also don't believe the 'trail' was laid across this land. I have witnessed myself the hunting of foxes since the ban, and I believe, although I cannot prove, that this is what they were doing at the time.


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## Steerpike (1 September 2021)

So he has to pay £107? Doesn't seem much for the stress he probably caused the calf, its mother and the farmer. Not much if a deterrent to other hunt staff to make sure their hounds are under control at all times.


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## ycbm (1 September 2021)

Red-1 said:



			They were hardly hunting within the law if they were trespassing. The farmer states they didn't have permission to lay a trail on his land, so they were doing.
.....
I also don't believe the 'trail' was laid across this land. I have witnessed myself the hunting of foxes since the ban, and I believe, although I cannot prove, that this is what they were doing at the time.
		
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They're local to me and when I was looking for a replacement for the drag that shut down,  I decided I couldn't hunt with them.  Just saying 😌


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## Quigleyandme (1 September 2021)

I agree the huntsman has full responsibility for the trail laid by the runner. Even though the hunt servants were not in control of the pack as they should have been during this incident the hounds that rioted onto the calf went rogue and should never hunt again.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (1 September 2021)

I get that this was caught on video and it's clear who should have been in control of the dogs, but it's slightly a p*ss take that they have convvicted the hunt master for this, yet little to no effort goes into prosecuting people which aren't in control of their dangerous dogs, or also let their dogs worry livestock at whim


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## Tiddlypom (1 September 2021)

Quigleyandme said:



			I agree the huntsman has full responsibility for the trail laid by the runner.
		
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Is that so?

I presumed that huntsmen are not told of the line of the 'trail', so that they come to it fresh and cast hounds about without prior knowledge of where the scent will be. I presumed that a master oversees the trail laying route.

I also don't believe that those hounds were following a laid trail when they changed to the calf.


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## poiuytrewq (1 September 2021)

That made me feel a bit sick. Poor calf must have been utterly terrified.


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## meleeka (1 September 2021)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			I get that this was caught on video and it's clear who should have been in control of the dogs, but it's slightly a p*ss take that they have convvicted the hunt master for this, yet little to no effort goes into prosecuting people which aren't in control of their dangerous dogs, or also let their dogs worry livestock at whim
		
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They should prosecute everyone who’s not in control of their dog(s) and/or let them worry livestock.  I’m pleased that’s at least one that’s been punished.


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## Auslander (2 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			The hounds should not be culled. They are doing what they are trained to do. The hunt master and staff should be on the hounds to contain them
		
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Rioting hounds aren't doing what they're trained to do. Rioting is when they don't listen to the hunt staff, and therefore cannot be trusted to do what they were trained to do.
It's like saying a horse who blind bolts is doing what it's trained to do, and it's the riders fault that they couldn't stop it.


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## Red-1 (2 September 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Is that so?

I presumed that huntsmen are not told of the line of the 'trail', so that they come to it fresh and cast hounds about without prior knowledge of where the scent will be. I presumed that a master oversees the trail laying route.

I also don't believe that those hounds were following a laid trail when they changed to the calf.
		
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It would be like any employee, volunteer or otherwise, who acts in the course of their employment out of sight of the management structure. The management is still responsible for their actions, as well as the individual being responsible. They are responsible for selecting the individual, training them and managing their actions.

I am thinking such as with our school. Staff are carefully selected, trained both with a national qualification and with a local induction, then supervised by various means. If a staff member were to put kids at risk, they would be individually responsible, but the school as an organisation would also be responsible.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (2 September 2021)

meleeka said:



			They should prosecute everyone who’s not in control of their dog(s) and/or let them worry livestock.  I’m pleased that’s at least one that’s been punished.
		
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Yes, agreed. My original post didn't come across quite how I meant it!


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## Donna558 (30 September 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Video apparently taken on 4/11/20 (last day of hunting before lockdown2) by antis. Alleged to be the High Peak Hunt. (I only know what I have seen and read on FB).




__ https://www.facebook.com/622461131133721/posts/3482504871795985



Antis do sometimes get carried away when hounds are merely running through fields containing livestock and ignoring them, but hounds are clearly after this calf, they follow it for a distance and follow it when it doubles back. It does escape, but whether it sustained injuries as it fled and jumped the stone walls is unclear. mygroundbiz 

Rioting onto livestock is, or should be, a capital offence for the hounds involved. What a mess.
		
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It looks like some of the smarter dogs try to cut him off and he still goes NOPE! And gains more ground. It's pretty impressive to see the comparison.


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## palo1 (30 September 2021)

Horrific.  I have never seen anything at all like this thankfully.  I agree that rioting onto livestock should be a capital offence although that would be an issue for some people too.  I felt quite sick watching that.


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## SEL (3 October 2021)

That penalty is a joke.


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## Bob notacob (9 October 2021)

All round,a bad situation. Sadly there are all too few hunt followers who would even know what to do in such a situation .And so it falls on the hunt staff to be everywhere at once. A bad bad day.


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## Amymay (9 October 2021)

Bob notacob said:



			All round,a bad situation. Sadly there are all too few hunt followers who would even know what to do in such a situation .And so it falls on the hunt staff to be everywhere at once. A bad bad day.
		
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deleted

Isn’t the idea that the huntsman and


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## Bob notacob (9 October 2021)

Amymay said:



			deleted

Isn’t the idea that the huntsman and
		
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Sorry lost half your comment ,please retry .


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## Bob notacob (9 October 2021)

Bob notacob said:



			Sorry lost half your comment ,please retry .
		
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I do want to try and answer your question to the best of my abilities


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## Amymay (9 October 2021)

Bob notacob said:



			I do want to try and answer your question to the best of my abilities
		
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Sorry, meant to delete my post.

However my thought were essentially, in response to yours about hunt servants being ‘everywhere‘.  
Whilst they obviously can’t be ’everywhere’, isn’t the idea that they don’t need to be? Because the hounds are supposed to listen to them…


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