# Why do people not freezemark their horses?



## bailey14 (8 July 2009)

Apart from the problems with freezemarks taking on grey horses why do people not bother freezemarking their horses? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  I just dont understand why people don't feel the need to do this.  I have owned six horses now and each one I have had freezemarked within the first 2 to 3 weeks of owning them, yet there are people who have their horses for years and have never contemplated it.  Do people seriously believe that a microchip is a good reason not to freezemark??  How can people spend a £1000 on a new saddle or over £120 on a fancy bridle when for £30 - £40 their horses could be freezemarked and safe?  Please help me understand.  At the risk of getting slaughtered, I do not condemn anyone who has had a horse stolen and not freezemarked but I'm afraid I  can't quite find the same level of sympathy as I would for someone that had.


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## nikicb (8 July 2009)

This topic is high in my thoughts at the moment.  My bay horse was freezemarked way back (I've had her 28 years).  The pony (grey) hasn't been up till now.  At the moment he is kept on a busy livery yard, out in the day, in at night.  People on the premises 24 hours.  Dogs etc.  When out he's in a field in the centre of the land and he's a b****r to catch unless you have feed and do it the right way.  BUT soon to be moving to my own place which is far more remote and although I'll be around quite a lot I'll be out and about taking kids to school etc.  So I'm in a real dilemma.  I really hate seeing the feezemarks on the shoulder.  I wasn't sure how much of a deterrant microchipping plus signs is.  I really think I will have to freezemark, does anyone know if they will still do it under the mane?  He's a Welsh Sec A so it's fairly long.  Anyway I would rather err on the side of caution, but am interested in seeing the responses you get to this.


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## fatpiggy (8 July 2009)

Hi Millitiff,

Why don't you like seeing the freezemark on the shoulder? My mare has white and self-coloured scars on her side, withers and flank (unfitting rugs and whip marks) - now they are the ones I don't like seeing on her. A freezemark is a sign of careing and is absolutely the best place to mark in order to deter theft as you can't just hide it under a saddle.  n ordinary member of the public catching it wouldn't think to take the saddle off, but they could say to the local police that it has this strange lot of numbers and letters on its shoulder.

I'm 100% with Applecart14


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## Chico Mio (8 July 2009)

Because I can't find someone to do it!  It would be easier to have mine hot branded on their bums.  They are both chipped (it's the law) and passported.


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## nikicb (8 July 2009)

Hi Fatpiggy, you are absolutely right and the more I think about it the more I feel I should get it done.  When I only had my mare I didn't think twice about it.  Then when I moved to the yard I'm at now a lot of people haven't had it done (which I did think was strange).  In terms of where he is at the moment I do feel fairly ok (there's 20 or so horses on the yard, most decent quality jobbies, and he is often the last one in as he won't be caught).  In his field there are 5 other ponies who all charge up to you in case you have food, whereas he keeps well out of the way.  But with the impending move I think it really will be a necessity as it will just be my lot there.  Thanks for helping me to get this straight in my mind.


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## bailey14 (8 July 2009)

What do you mean you can't find someone to do it.  Whats wrong with FarmKey or Freezemark?


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## Vikki89 (8 July 2009)

any reccomendations on who is best between freezemark and farmkey?


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## Nailed (8 July 2009)

Because I dont like them.. I think its barbaric..

Shot me down go on..

But let me jsut say.. if my horse was ever stolen, then thats my fault for not getting her freezebranded and nothing to do with anyone else.

So heaven forbid my horse gets nicked, but I wont come crying..

Lou x


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## nikicb (8 July 2009)

In terms of freezemarking greys, is it the colour of the skin underneath that is the issue or the density of the hair.  Milli is a grey section A but was born skewbald so has dark grey patches of skin.  But his coat is really dense (not particularly long, but really really thick) even in the summer (he is clipped in the winter anyway so that wouldn't be a problem, or would it?).  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Sorry OP for hijacking your post, but hope it's relevant.


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## Chico Mio (8 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
What do you mean you can't find someone to do it.  Whats wrong with FarmKey or Freezemark? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I forget to say sometimes, I live in Spain - hence microchipping and passports being the law, enforced and monitored by the government.  You also have to be registered as a keeper of horses if they are kept on your premises (or you are not insured) and inform the authorities of any movement in or out of said premises, including births, deaths, sales and thefts.


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## bailey14 (8 July 2009)

But it doesn't hurt them, its just a bit of discomfort for a lifetimes protection.


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## bailey14 (8 July 2009)

I've used both Farmkey &amp; FM and found they were as good as each other.  However each time I've had my horses freezemarked part of the last digit hasn't come out properly so last time on my present horse I asked her to hold down the last iron longer than the others and the result is that the third digit hasn't come through clearly now!!! Can't win.  However don't let that put you off, it is really important to get them done, and obviously to mark all rugs with their number.


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## Elle1085 (8 July 2009)

I have absolutely no idea where i would go to get it done and seeing as i have a horse who wont have cotton wool near him without a fight never mind anything else i've never thought it was the best thing for him he does have a westphalian brand though


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## mtj (8 July 2009)

tbh, i can only imagine the scene when my dutch warmblood was freezemarked (before i bought him)

he is a sedation case for clipping, and  i think this is the most sensible approach for a sensitive horse.

as your horse has "enjoyed" the experience of hot branding - i doubt he will allow a branding iron any where near him unless he is sedated.

the freezemark companies visit you at your yard.


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## fatpiggy (8 July 2009)

I wouldn't ever deliberately inflict pain or suffering on my mare, but I didn't hesitate to be "barbaric". She didn't flinch at all, despite being a highly strung chestnut mare. I do hope your horse doesn't go missing. No doubt you won't come looking for sympathy if it does, but you will come wanting us to help look for it.


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## Tinkerbee (8 July 2009)

I suppose it's a bit like the riding hat debate. People have free will... and just because a horse is freezemarked, doesn't mean it will be recovered if stolen.


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## Donkeymad (8 July 2009)

Freezmark have a 100% recovery rate and I think Farmkey is about 97% - so there is a pretty good chance. I don't understand people saying it ugly/defacing etc. Having had two stolen, and found very quickly -  *because they were freezemarked* I really don't understand objectors. each to his own though

Over the years I have noticed a very high incidence of those done by farmkey needing re-doing.


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## Elle1085 (8 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
tbh, i can only imagine the scene when my dutch warmblood was freezemarked (before i bought him)

he is a sedation case for clipping, and  i think this is the most sensible approach for a sensitive horse.

as your horse has "enjoyed" the experience of hot branding - i doubt he will allow a branding iron any where near him unless he is sedated.

the freezemark companies visit you at your yard. 

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto sedation for clipping, tbh i can't say it's something that i've ever thought about until now maybe a new ad campaign wouldn't go amiss


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## Grey_Eventer (10 July 2009)

im getting mine done as soons as possible 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 the other 3 are branded...


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## Stateside (18 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Because I dont like them.. I think its barbaric..

Shot me down go on..

But let me jsut say.. if my horse was ever stolen, then thats my fault for not getting her freezebranded and nothing to do with anyone else.

So heaven forbid my horse gets nicked, but I wont come crying..

Lou x 

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here I will NEVER have any horse of mine labeled in such a horrid way.. I have used the brading of the hoof with a post code though.
If a 4inch shield with the numbers inside the sheild was put on the lower quarter like a hanoverian bran then it might change my mind , But no way how they do it now..


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## competitiondiva (18 July 2009)

Whilst not all auctions are monitored for freeze marked horses I see litte appeal to jump to have it done, you have to pay annually to have it on their registers not something you have to pay petlog! So identification is the only thing it provides if the horse is found, which microchipping does in a more acurate way than freeze branding, brands can be altered id chips cannot.  Therefore I've always had microchips.  That is not to say that I wouldn't have them freeze branded IF ALL auctions/sales were to be monitored for marked horses, but if this happens why can't all horses be scanned for a chip.

Added to that all foals registered after july 1st this year have to be chipped and linked to a passport so I'd imagine all sales in the not too distant future will be scanned.....


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## Ashgrove (20 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
 you have to pay annually to have it on their registers

[/ QUOTE ]

I got my horse freeze branded with Northern Brand, there is no yearly charge with them


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## winston44 (23 July 2009)

after having been a freezemark operator for over 15 years, with both farmkey and freezemark, i am finding this funny to read.  everyone is entitled to thier own opinions, but freezemarking is not cruel, just uncomfortable, its abit like putting a bag of frozen peas on your skin, with us humans yes it could cause a burn, but as horses have dense hair compaired to us, what it does is kill the pigment at the root of the hair, hense it growing back white!!   it does cause the branded area to swell for a couple of days, and can be sore up to a week, hense not riding the horse for up to this time, every horse is different and will react differently.
and before any one says, "how do you know it doesn't hurt?"  i have branded myself quite a few times over the years by accident of course

with grays, appies and coloured horses, and sometime palominos and duns (depending on how light there coats go) you need to actually kill the hair folicule off all together, hense what is called a "bald" mark, which needs to be clipped, as any hair growing over the mark with cover it up.

most operators will not mark under the mane on the neck , reason being is that the neck muscles are allways on the move and it will take longer for the mark to heal, also it is much easier for a horse to rub its neck on a tree and make its neck sore and, again not a good idea for horse/ponies with sweetitch.  if pushed, and with permission form "the powers that be" at the office, if the owner signs a decleration, releasing the company of any obligation, they may allows for a mark on the neck to be done, but they dont like it.

i have marked and had my own horses marked, even up to now, and i still believe in it as the best form of identifcation.

with microchips, i am not sure not how many companies the are now in action, but in my day the were at least 4 different companies, and all using 4 different scanners to pick thier own chips up, so unless a market / police stc had all 4 scanners, they could well miss a microchipped animals because the scanner didn;t register that chip because it belonged to a different company, and DONT forget chips are not visable to the naked eye and can migrate, depending on when they were put in.

HOOF BRANDING~  sorry this is my pet hate!!  1st you pay for the branding irons for your postcode,
2nd, then you pay for your farrier to mark your horses hooves.
3rd- turn said horse out in field, let it get nice and muddy and fill the  brand in with mud!
4th- get horse in from field, bet you cant find the mark without a dam good scrub!! lol
5th- horse gets stolen - brand can be filed out or worse branded with a solid brand to remove origional brand, more damage to hoof wall
6th- how many plods sorry policeman/ port service people will go into a truck load of horses, be it that the horses are tied up nicely or all crammed in together, and bend down a look at the hooves of all the horses, looking for a brand which is proberly filled with mud, filler or even filled off!  i am experienced with horses and differcult ones at that and i wouldn't do that, one sure way to get yourself hurt or poss killed by scared animals!

and 7th- you move house and have to pay for yet another set of branding irons!!

with freezebranding most companies charge a yearly fee for keeping your horse on file. but once your horse is marked, its marked for life, you are covered for remarking if needed for the first year anyway, i am the first to admit i dont bother to register my horses each year, but then i do have the advantage that i know who and where to contact people now.

hope this has helped abit, dont worry if your horse acts up abit, the operators are used to it, and i would say the are more horses that are brilliant when its being done, than those that are not, have food at hand and always stand to the left of the horse, i found the most helpful thing an owner could do was left hand on the rope/reins just below the muzzel, right hand in the crock of the neck, and if the horse wants to move , let it, just keep turning it in a small circle around you both, and above all keep calm or your horse will feel your nervousness and act on it!

if you are very nervous, get a more experienced person to hold your horse for you.

good luck


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## fatpiggy (24 July 2009)

Well said winston44, I'm with you on every single point.


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## bailey14 (24 July 2009)

As the OP I would like to say thanks for sharing that with us Winston, that was very interesting.  I actually have Farmkey on video marking my horse (I wanted to do a video diary of his first few weeks just for myself) and sometimes I re watch it.  I must admit I haven't renewed my freezemark membership thing but I can't see them not helping you if you rang them up if the horse did get stolen and pay for it there and then over teh phone.  I think its a brilliant idea, but one thing you have left off Winston which I feel is VERY important is the fact that its a bit pointless marking your horse if you don't mark its rugs too with a bit of paint.  AND put signs up.  My last job I had access to a laminator, so I went on line made up loads of signs from free signage websites saying these premises are protected by CCTV, and cut and pasted some freezemark style signs and laminated them and went around our fields nailing them up to fences and trees.  I think these precautions should be carried out IN ADDITION to freezemarking.


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## winston44 (24 July 2009)

thanks guys, 
applecarts, totally agree with you re the signs and marking rugs etc, sorry i just covered the main points last night, but forgot to add those points, very well put


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## Doris68 (24 July 2009)

The biggest problem my (then 4 yo) chestnut mare had was the extremely frightening noise of the clippers!!!  The actual freezebranding did not cause her a problem at all.

Had her son done at around a year old and he didn't even notice anything was happening.  He was quite difficult by the way.

It is a VISIBLE DETERRENT!


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## MagicMelon (24 July 2009)

Freezemarking hurts like hell! I had my very first pony done years ago and he absolutely went ballistic (normally a very sane pony), I remember it very well even though it must have been 15 years ago.  I'd never put another horse through that.

It looks horrid as well, there's no way in hell you can do it to something used for showing for example.  Have you ever seen anything winning HOYS (in fact BEING at HOYS) with a freeze mark?  

I like the logic behind marking your horse but I think microchipping would be best and then just displaying big signs saying this everywhere.


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## competitiondiva (24 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
with microchips, i am not sure not how many companies the are now in action, but in my day the were at least 4 different companies, and all using 4 different scanners to pick thier own chips up, so unless a market / police stc had all 4 scanners, they could well miss a microchipped animals because the scanner didn;t register that chip because it belonged to a different company, and DONT forget chips are not visable to the naked eye and can migrate, depending on when they were put in.



[/ QUOTE ]

???????? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 When was that???  I've had horses microchipped since 1994 and all chips since then have come up on all uk scanners.  I think you are thinking about chips from abroad some US chips do not come up on uk/european scanners but all UK chips regardless of company show on all UK scanners.  With regard to the chip being visible I really don't know what chips you are looking at? The chip is the size of a large grain of rice and is inserted into the muscle so is no way visible!  Migration CAN happen in cats and dogs if the chip is not inserted correctly.  The chip itself has a coating which binds to the tissues so therefore does not migrate.  I've never known an equine chip to migrate. But yes I have known cat/dog ones especially if the cat/dog is stroked roughly around the scruff soon after being chipped and therefore not giving the chip time to bind to the tissues.

I'm not against freeze branding at all, but faced with a chip that doesn't cost annually and a freeze brand that does cost annually (yes I did see the post about northern brand or something and I will look into it thank you for that) when both forms offer the same level of id/security I have always chosen the chip.  And DEFRA have also chosen chipping as the most acurate identification method due to the ruling that all horses registered after 1st july this year must be chipped.


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## winston44 (25 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Freezemarking hurts like hell! I had my very first pony done years ago and he absolutely went ballistic (normally a very sane pony), I remember it very well even though it must have been 15 years ago.  I'd never put another horse through that.

It looks horrid as well, there's no way in hell you can do it to something used for showing for example.  Have you ever seen anything winning HOYS (in fact BEING at HOYS) with a freeze mark?  

I like the logic behind marking your horse but I think microchipping would be best and then just displaying big signs saying this everywhere. 

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry your pony had a bad experience with freezemarking, it does occasionally happen, as humans, horse/ponies all have different skin types and different threseholds, about 95% are fine but the more sensitive types ie welsh cross arabs, pure arabs and chestnuts are normally the ones that are more sensitive.

freezemarking doesn't hurt, just rather uncomfortable but as you can imagine, if i put something very cold on your back, you would initally flinch by reaction, more than pain, if that makes sense.

i agree, the showing world dont often place horses that are freezemarked and i dont know why the showing faturnity are against freezemarking, but as its NOT a blemish, the horse shouldn't be marked down because its marked, saying that i do know quite a few who have been placed at the top shows now, as its much more accepted now than it was 30 years ago, if fact one of my own mares won her riding horse class at the Royal Winsor horse show and she was marked. but what i cant understand is people who actually care more about a rosette and winning a showing class than they do about the safety and security of their horses


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## winston44 (25 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
with microchips, i am not sure not how many companies the are now in action, but in my day the were at least 4 different companies, and all using 4 different scanners to pick thier own chips up, so unless a market / police stc had all 4 scanners, they could well miss a microchipped animals because the scanner didn;t register that chip because it belonged to a different company, and DONT forget chips are not visable to the naked eye and can migrate, depending on when they were put in.



[/ QUOTE ]

???????? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 When was that???  I've had horses microchipped since 1994 and all chips since then have come up on all uk scanners.  I think you are thinking about chips from abroad some US chips do not come up on uk/european scanners but all UK chips regardless of company show on all UK scanners.  With regard to the chip being visible I really don't know what chips you are looking at? The chip is the size of a large grain of rice and is inserted into the muscle so is no way visible!  Migration CAN happen in cats and dogs if the chip is not inserted correctly.  The chip itself has a coating which binds to the tissues so therefore does not migrate.  I've never known an equine chip to migrate. But yes I have known cat/dog ones especially if the cat/dog is stroked roughly around the scruff soon after being chipped and therefore not giving the chip time to bind to the tissues.

I'm not against freeze branding at all, but faced with a chip that doesn't cost annually and a freeze brand that does cost annually (yes I did see the post about northern brand or something and I will look into it thank you for that) when both forms offer the same level of id/security I have always chosen the chip.  And DEFRA have also chosen chipping as the most acurate identification method due to the ruling that all horses registered after 1st july this year must be chipped. 

[/ QUOTE ]

 <font color="blue">  </font>  i started freezemarking in 1989 and stopped after a year after having my son who is now 6 years old,  the chips were fairly new on the market then and the different options of security of chips, branding irons and freezemarks were all in great demand then. but it was our business as operators to know what else was around so we could inform the puplic/clients what their options were, we were NOT allowed to favour one against the other as it would be seen as biased and unproffesional, we could only advise, which is all i am trying to do here 
	
	
		
		
	


	





chips have come on alot over the last 10 years or so, but have you actually checked all the different chips by different scanners to see if the can be cross referanced?   i am sure most now can be cross referenced but i still run into some which cant be! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





chips are much better now with regards to migrating but it can still happen, my son's pony was chipped as a back up to being freezemarked (she is a VERY light palomino), and this was only done last year, i checked the position, funnerly enough only a couple of weeks ago and it has moved about 4" up her neck,  its not the coating that binds the chip to the muscle, it has little tenticals that stick out slightly which is meant to stop the chip migrating, as with everything they dont always work, and in the last couple of years i have know quite a few cases of this happening.

Do you actually do microchipping yourself? i have been trained to do it as it was a service that i offered to animal owners and also micro chipping saddles rugs etc.

i am not against any of the methods that can be used for identifing your horse cat dog saddles etc, just know most of the pros and cons and what has worked best up to when i  stopped freezemarking, but i wouldn't say i am an expert any more than any one else.

DEFRA  may have chosen chipping, but unless you are armed with the scanners and can catch the poines etc, you cant not see a chip, were at least a policman or animal welfare person can see a freezemark (most of the time) from a distance!  

Can i just ask, how many of you have ACTUALLY been stopped and ASKED for your horse passports?  be it at a show, or a sale or even if you just transporting your horse around?  

How many gypsey ponies have been marked?

how many of you have purchased a pony with papers including its passport?

how many of you have had your vet fill in the passport every time he/she treats your horse?

to me its just another money making scheme by DEFRA and the goverment and a way of keeping tabs on the horse population, just in case the is a mass outbreak of strangles or something and then they know the animals are kept.  

haven't you noticed that since the outbreak of foot and mouth a few years ago, that was about the time they bought horse passports in,  its purely so they can keep tabs on the number of amimals, 

what other usefulness is the to passports?

i show and event (most at affilianted levels) and only EVER been asked ONCE for the vacination card, nevr for the actual passport, i always carry them as its the law, but having being stopped by the police to check if the lorry was over weight, the police didn't ask for the paperwork then,  all they did was weigh the lorry, stick thier noses in the grooms door of the lorry and then back up and said "on your way".

as i said before you can have your horse marked by ANY of the companies that are around,  BUT you DO NOT have to take out the yearly subcription,  do you really think they will turn you away if you lose your horse?  i know for a fact both leading companies have helped people in their search for  lost stolen animals and have even helped with rewards, these were marked (not registered after the year) or unmarked horses,,  if you think of it, would a company be stupid enough to turn down FREE publictity?

anyway, i will get off my bandwagon now,  to somerise,  i am sure things have moved on since i stopped marking horses,  i am more than happy to accept that, but i am talking generally and trying  NOT to be personal,  nothing like a healthy debate is the 
	
	
		
		
	


	




?


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## V1NN (25 July 2009)

Hmmm i'm considering having my 14month old horse freeze marked as i would just be simply devastated if he got stolen.
How easy is it for them to freeze mark a leopard appaloosa with pink skin? 
I have to say i'm in scotland and i hardly ever see a horse with a freeze mark some of the older ones and occasionaly at shows although i guess a lot of them are under saddles wen i go to shows but i still dont think its as widely done here now.
I know my YO is big into her showing (i am not to fussed) and i dont think she would consider getting hers done and will probably say i'm stupid as he is micro chipped but i still think i would never forgive myself if he was stolen i'd always be thinking the worst and would never forgive myself.


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## winston44 (25 July 2009)

a leopard pot appie, is one of the hardest to actually mark esp if they have pink skin, he would have to be marked on his shoulder as a bald mark, and it would need to be kept clipped most of the time to make it show, it would still be there if the hair was to grow over it, but you really need to keep  the mark clipped most of the time.


the mark would be pink the same colour as the skin.  has he any where on him that is a black area of about 4" square?  as that would be prefrable as the mark would then grow back white as a normal freeze mark.

if not,he would be one that i would say yes its worth marking him, but double up with a microchip also as an extra means of identification.

hope this helps abit, but spotted horses are one of the worst to mark/


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## ucmeicu (25 July 2009)

Had my two freezemarked today, both are already microchipped. Neither seemed to know anything was going on, a few carrots and they stood there happy as larry. One a yearling the other an older horse, one a heavy breed the other a much finer horse. I thought they may react differently but no, both stood there eating happily. I am relieved my horses have the most protection I can offer them, they have not suffered in the slightest. Big sign on gate now.


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## competitiondiva (25 July 2009)

Yes I do chip dogs and cats which is why I know about the coating of the chip binding to the tissues, Only a vet can chip a horse though because of the muscles involved, with a cat or dog the chip just sits under the skin so no muscle involved.  My own horses have been chipped since 1996 and they have shown up on every scanner i've had since then (all different makes)  I didn't realise with freeze branding that you don't HAVE to pay the annual registration, if that is the case I will look into it once my foal is older, may as well go for both!!!. what is the youngest age a horse can be branded?


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## winston44 (25 July 2009)

they have to be at least a year old before they can be marked.


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## madiz123 (30 July 2009)

I was told by the farrier the other day that farmkey had been charging like an annual fee for the freeze mark? or something like that.

my horse has a star on her shoulder and i love it!


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## Grumpy Herbert (30 July 2009)

Farmkey charge an annual fee of £12 a year - I had my mare done 12 years ago and the price hasn't gone up since then!

Incidentally, she is a very sensitive, feisty horse and she didn't react badly to having it done.


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## fingers_crossed (30 July 2009)

My old boss would not let any of us get ours done, had several experiences of theives who when finding freezemarked horses sent them straight to the abattoir. The ones that weren't were sold on , so at least they lived. He's a very experienced horseman, over 50 years experience, I can't even bear the thought of that - its not worth the risk to me.


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## DebbieCG (30 July 2009)

Ok, small point, but freeze branding isn't actually Government regulated is it?

At least micro-chipping looks like it is as from 1st July.

I speak as someone with experience of the devastating loss of my horse being stolen in 1981.  Due to the controversy of freezebranding at that time, he wasn't freeze-branded then and the three other horses who were stolen with him, who had 'ironically' just been freeze branded, were dumped in a field within a few days of being stolen, about 200 miles away.  My horse was not with them.

It certainly made for good publicity for the freeze-branding company at the time, who didn't ask us, as heartbroken owners, if we minded, using us as an example.

I still don't have my current horse freeze branded, but rather micro-chipped.  My current horse is also in a more secure environment.  

The small secluded yard where my horse was stolen from was not manned at night and with no real security, but it was a long time ago.

I am not opposed to freeze branding and do think it is these days probably the most visual deterent, but it doesn't stop all thefts.

We all have different experiences and views.


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## DebbieCG (30 July 2009)

Quote

'after having been a freezemark operator for over 15 years, with both farmkey and freezemark, i am finding this funny to read. everyone is entitled to thier own opinions, but freezemarking is...'

Winston 44, I've got to say, you are going to be biased anyway, aren't you?

Please see my post above.  I'm not finding this funny to read, more frustrating really.


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