# Pentathlon anybody? Showjumping schedule...



## Shadowdancing (18 August 2016)

Just FYI

Modern Pentathlon is underway. Fencing today. Tomorrow is women's jumping around 7.30pm our time. Men's is 7.30pm Saturday. 

Lets hope there's a reasonable standard of riding, I seem to remember one group I watched barely able to stay on...!


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## Dunlin (18 August 2016)

I remember watching the SJ from London and the standard of riding was at times terrible and I felt so sorry for all those who had volunteered their horses being booted in the guts with incompetent riders wearing spurs and carrying whips, the vast majority just went round far too fast in no rhythm or balance in a point and shoot manner hauling the horses around in the mouth. The standout moment was when a horse reared up and went over backwards almost crushing the rider, the guy amazingly got back on and did his round running out of control and deep into almost every fence booting about 10 down. Shocking to watch. I'll give it a go and see if the standard has improved!


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## Shadowdancing (18 August 2016)

Yep, just went to find some footage... here's the ladies from 2012. 1st fall 40.00 thereabouts... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzMSB7Wc-3Y


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## Shadowdancing (18 August 2016)

1.16 scary- actually lots of scary moments!


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## Shadowdancing (18 August 2016)

2.13 a horse just jumped out of the arena with the rider!


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## Red-1 (18 August 2016)

Better than the ones 4 years precious to that, I actually could not watch on that occasion. 

I have been talking to OH, wondering what horses Rio will provide. I know in London the horses were rigorously vetted for suitability, I seem to recollect they had been jumped around those fences, just because of the ugly scenes before. With other riders on they all jumped beautifully.

I was wondering if Rio was going to be as rigorous?

I also wondered if either the SJ standard should be lowered (as in height/spread), or if the contestants should have to attain a specified level of competition experience before doing a pentathlon on other people's horses.


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## teapot (18 August 2016)

Will definitely be interesting to see the standard of horses in Rio. A friend of mine was a volunteer in the Penthalon stables at London and the horses were of a very good quality, and merely showed up the lower lever of riding on display. 

I wonder how many have riding as their worst sport? I don't seem to remember Steph Cook riding badly but I swear she was a rider first, pentathlete second as it were.


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## Shadowdancing (18 August 2016)

Dunlin said:



			I remember watching the SJ from London and the standard of riding was at times terrible and I felt so sorry for all those who had volunteered their horses being booted in the guts with incompetent riders wearing spurs and carrying whips, the vast majority just went round far too fast in no rhythm or balance in a point and shoot manner hauling the horses around in the mouth. The standout moment was when a horse reared up and went over backwards almost crushing the rider, the guy amazingly got back on and did his round running out of control and deep into almost every fence booting about 10 down. Shocking to watch. I'll give it a go and see if the standard has improved!
		
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Just seen the part you referenced here Dunlin, probably the worst incident I saw in London Pentathlon. It's at about 1.26 if anyone wants to see what happened- reins just too tight in a very busy arena?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg7Psi5qSMI


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## teapot (18 August 2016)

According to the Modern Pentathlon GB website there's a riding certificate that they must have signed off pre competition http://www2.pentathlongb.org/resources/Senior_Riding_Certificate_-_Final_1466429174_725724.pdf


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## Shadowdancing (18 August 2016)

teapot said:



			According to the Modern Pentathlon GB website there's a riding certificate that they must have signed off pre competition http://www2.pentathlongb.org/resources/Senior_Riding_Certificate_-_Final_1466429174_725724.pdf

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Wow I never knew that, very interesting! I wonder why it goes so wrong for some... I have to say looking back at it there are some very nice rides as well as some scary ones, and fair play to them all- I'm a nervous jumper and I'd never go round a course that size- how big are the fences anyway?


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## Annagain (18 August 2016)

teapot said:



			Will definitely be interesting to see the standard of horses in Rio. A friend of mine was a volunteer in the Penthalon stables at London and the horses were of a very good quality, and merely showed up the lower lever of riding on display. 

I wonder how many have riding as their worst sport? I don't seem to remember Steph Cook riding badly but I swear she was a rider first, pentathlete second as it were.
		
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I was reading that most British pentathletes start off in Pony Club doing tetrathlon and add fencing later on so they probably are riders first and pentathletes second. If that's the case I always find it a bit odd that the riding phase of tetrathlon is XC and not show jumping, but I suppose SJ is easier to do outside of tetrathlon competitions than XC.


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## teapot (18 August 2016)

Shadowdancing said:



			Wow I never knew that, very interesting! I wonder why it goes so wrong for some... I have to say looking back at it there are some very nice rides as well as some scary ones, and fair play to them all- I'm a nervous jumper and I'd never go round a course that size- how big are the fences anyway?
		
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Obviously that's the team GB requirement, I assume it's expected of other nations? Course height wise is 1m20 at senior level.


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## Dunlin (18 August 2016)

Shadowdancing said:



			Just seen the part you referenced here Dunlin, probably the worst incident I saw in London Pentathlon. It's at about 1.26 if anyone wants to see what happened- reins just too tight in a very busy arena?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg7Psi5qSMI

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I forgot how bad it was!!! 

It's the Korean rider after the horse at 1hr 26 mins riding Shearwater Oscar, poor poor horse. Yes his reins were very short and you can see him actually DIG his spurs into the side of the horse quite hard when he's in the 'start box'. Short reins telling the horse to stop, dug in the sides with spurs to go, it was only ever going one way. The horse was so honest to jump those fences when he got back on with the terrible strides and flat out pace. I hope Oscars owner managed to get his confidence back after that experience.


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## suffolkmare (18 August 2016)

Dunlin said:



			I forgot how bad it was!!! 

It's the Korean rider after the horse at 1hr 26 mins riding Shearwater Oscar, poor poor horse. Yes his reins were very short and you can see him actually DIG his spurs into the side of the horse quite hard when he's in the 'start box'. Short reins telling the horse to stop, dug in the sides with spurs to go, it was only ever going one way. The horse was so honest to jump those fences when he got back on with the terrible strides and flat out pace. I hope Oscars owner managed to get his confidence back after that experience.
		
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Same here, watching that again I felt the same anger and indignation on behalf of the horse. HOW/WHY was it expected to continue after the rearing incident? It might not have been obviously lame but could have sustained a more subtle pelvic injury or bruised hock/leg from hitting the floral display. Hardly time for a proper vet check!! and yes, the poor thing did try but with absolutely no help from a rider who had no idea of placing him/finding a stride. How did his owner feel, watching that?  Hoping for much better things this time...


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## Lizzie66 (19 August 2016)

annagain said:



			I was reading that most British pentathletes start off in Pony Club doing tetrathlon and add fencing later on so they probably are riders first and pentathletes second. If that's the case I always find it a bit odd that the riding phase of tetrathlon is XC and not show jumping, but I suppose SJ is easier to do outside of tetrathlon competitions than XC.
		
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Tetrathlon at Pony Club is geared towards ensuring that the riding phase is challenging and the XC level required can be quite technically challenging. The challenge element of it in the Pentathlon is the fact that it is an unfamiliar horse therefore SJ is definitely the safer option. 

Would love to see them shake it up in the Pentathlon and make them do a prelim/novice dressage test first then followed by SJ round. Would mean that riding ability would be tested as well as the ability of a horse to jump irrespective of the numpty on board.


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

I always dislike the sj part of Olympic pent. They all sit t far back, heavy and handsy. They either kick too much so horse is flat or not enough and poor horses get dropped at the fence. 
1.20 really isn't that high to jump round nicely if you get a good canter going. They all just get sooo flat! 
I got a bit upset at some of the riding when you noticed horse had a Cheltenham in but it was being yanked into fences - I'm amazed half of them left any of the jumps up at all at London. 
Do you think they get lessons?


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (19 August 2016)

Remember watching the riding part of this at the Beijing Olympics and it was awful, just awful, really upsetting.

Dunno if I'll watch it again.


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## Shadowdancing (19 August 2016)

I've had a quick look for the Beijing showjumping part of pentathlon there's hardly anything but the tiny few minutes going look terrifying!


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## Jo_x (19 August 2016)

I really really wish they'd change it to a dressage test instead of SJ.

With all the animal welfare attention the equestrian sports get, why doesn't this get wider attention??


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

Jo_x said:



			I really really wish they'd change it to a dressage test instead of SJ.

With all the animal welfare attention the equestrian sports get, why doesn't this get wider attention??
		
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or they would make riders ride something similar to a longer version of a WH ride out first showing w/t/c on both reins as well as a few basic movements and if riders are given a certain amount (say 20, with 5 points being given for loss of balance/position, 10 points for loss of control if the horse changes gait once, second time it is a straight 20 points, using spurs or unnecessary aids is 5 points etc) of riding penalties in this part, they are not allowed to jump and have the max. amount of jumping penalties added to their score. It would mean riders at least would have to be able to ride w/t/c proficiently before they can jump. I think they should lower the course height, so it's a mix of 80cm-1m fences and any rider who falls off should be eliminated from that round and given the max. score, rather than being allowed to remount.


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## Shadowdancing (19 August 2016)

The format almost allows for someone with relatively poor riding skills to still give it a go as long as they are good at everything else- fences knocked down even falls, you just get penalised, you can still get back on and keep going! I'm not wrong there am I? Could have misinterpreted...


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## bluebellfreddy (19 August 2016)

I think it is always tricky. We do see the Pent SJ after watching the best in the world Event, Dressage and SJ. Added to that they are all on there own horses that they have trained for a long time. Added to this we see ourselves on horses we have trained for a long time.

I can speak from experience, I ride my own horse up to BE Novice. But also do Uni riding teams, which has the same format of riding a horse for 5 mins then doing a jump round. I know I have got and some horses and had a shocking round, and I am like what happened there! I have also done it for 2 years now, and have never finished a round and thought that was as good as riding my own horse.

These pent riders have to get used to a horse and then go into the Olympic arena and look amazing! I am not total condoning the standard of riding, but I understand the difficulty of getting on a unknown horse and making it go without going to natural defensive riding. Added to this, the competitors have to train of other disciplines and finding riding schools to will provide 1.20m horses is very tricky. So you are left having your own horse/s which then leaves you getting used to that, which does not help getting on new horses.

Hope this makes sense, and well done for getting to the end!


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## teapot (19 August 2016)

Shadowdancing said:



			The format almost allows for someone with relatively poor riding skills to still give it a go as long as they are good at everything else- fences knocked down even falls, you just get penalised, you can still get back on and keep going! I'm not wrong there am I? Could have misinterpreted...
		
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No you're reading it right. You get eliminated for missing a fence but falling off isn't an issue... 



bluebellfreddy said:



			These pent riders have to get used to a horse and then go into the Olympic arena and look amazing! I am not total condoning the standard of riding, but I understand the difficulty of getting on a unknown horse and making it go without going to natural defensive riding. Added to this, the competitors have to train of other disciplines and finding riding schools to will provide 1.20m horses is very tricky. So you are left having your own horse/s which then leaves you getting used to that, which does not help getting on new horses.
		
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It's a fair point and having seen BUCS comps it is a test to get on something you don't know 20 minutes before a course, especially when it's a course of 1m20. It's a test when you're a competent rider, let alone i you're not!

I just find it odd that it appears, maybe Rio will prove us wrong, that most MP athlete's worst sport or at least not their best sport, is the one where they could kill themselves in. It's not like they're popping around 2ft 6 course with a handful of people watching.


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## Wizzkid (19 August 2016)

Yes I agree I think it should be changed to a dressage test.
I feel for them as rode for a uni team as well and it was hard just sitting on a strange horse for 20 mins then doing a round of jumps but a lot of them do look like they are winging it! Which seems a bit unfair on the horses.


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## Shadowdancing (19 August 2016)

Well it's on tonight- anyone going to watch?


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

teapot said:



			It's a fair point and having seen BUCS comps it is a test to get on something you don't know 20 minutes before a course, especially when it's a course of 1m20. It's a test when you're a competent rider, let alone i you're not!

I just find it odd that it appears, maybe Rio will prove us wrong, that most MP athlete's worst sport or at least not their best sport, is the one where they could kill themselves in. It's not like they're popping around 2ft 6 course with a handful of people watching.
		
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I can understand that some nations don't have the same access to riding and horses as others that compete in the pentathlon, but it does sort of bring the question of if the riders are not able to train properly for all 5 events, should they really be competing in a pentathlon?

I know some of them aren't natural riders, but it's still not an excuse imo. I thought in the London games, especially in the women, it became very obvious who knew how to ride and looked as if they must get regular lessons rather than those who looked as if they had had a few lessons once and just hoped they stayed on. If I remember rightly, there was an Irish girl in London who had a lovely round in the showjumping phase. She looked competent, well balanced and like she knew at least how to ride into a fence and keep her position rather than aiming horse at fence and holding on like some of the others did. 

I am going to be watching tonight, even though it is hard to watch, just to see what the Rio horses they provide are like as well as if the riding has improved at all.


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## teapot (19 August 2016)

I'm bemused by the fact the rugby sevens pitch is now the arena they're using!


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## Shadowdancing (19 August 2016)

Its on bbc olympic channel 6 for sky people?


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## teapot (19 August 2016)

Brazilian military horses this year.


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## Shadowdancing (19 August 2016)

Rider doesn't seem too bad here horse maybe not the easiest... good jumper tho.


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

Shadowdancing said:



			Rider doesn't seem too bad here horse maybe not the easiest... good jumper tho.
		
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thought she balanced on her reins a lot, but I definitely don't think she is one of the worst we will see.


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

Second rider in, the Egyptian girl has just had her second fall.
she looks quite upset, but riding wise I did wonder if she was going to manage it and I think the commentators have said it about not being experienced enough - she seemed to look very stiff and ride with her legs out in front of her and arms straight out in front.

I don't know what the loud shouting is either


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## Slightlyconfused (19 August 2016)

That grey is very strong for her.

I do like him though.


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

this grey horse Harry Potter looks like he's very very strong.
he has a cracking jump on him though!


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## teapot (19 August 2016)

Steph Cook is saying how it is though which is good


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

Oh my goodness this is not going well. Some hanging on and that lovely chestnut being hung on to and no leg support at all so not surprised that round went badly.


Oh and another fall. Super bouncy grey horse! Looked rather out of control, and confused about the elimination? Over the time?

ETA think maybe one of those better not held so tight? Looked balanced, more leg needed methinks


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## fankino04 (19 August 2016)

I'm not surprised that the Egyptian rider got dumped on the floor, bad riding lead to her refusal and she smacked horse going into each fence after, really liked harry Potter he looked fun


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

Kylara said:



			Oh my goodness this is not going well. Some hanging on and that lovely chestnut being hung on to and no leg support at all so not surprised that round went badly.


Oh and another fall. Super bouncy grey horse! Looked rather out of control, and confused about the elimination? Over the time?

ETA think maybe one of those better not held so tight? Looked balanced, more leg needed methinks
		
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I think the grey was just too strong for her, and it was an elimination for being over the time.

the horse who went after her had a lovely round though, lovely ridden. The Russian girl wasn't too bad either.


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

the horse the Argentinian rider has is very very honest.
She's very heavy handed as well.


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## Shadowdancing (19 August 2016)

If you could ride you'd be praying for that grey.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (19 August 2016)

Wish I could watch this!!! 

Have only got BBC Freeview channels and can't see it anywhere. Not on Red Button, not my set anyway


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## fankino04 (19 August 2016)

I'm really confused by the fact that so many of these competed in 2012 yet didn't seem to think that getting more riding lessons before representing your country would be a good idea, they've had 4 years......


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Wish I could watch this!!! 

Have only got BBC Freeview channels and can't see it anywhere. Not on Red Button, not my set anyway 

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it's watchable online! 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/olympics/36817770


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

please tell me I wasn't the only one wishing she would have let go of the reins when she came off there.


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## Shooting Star (19 August 2016)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Wish I could watch this!!! 

Have only got BBC Freeview channels and can't see it anywhere. Not on Red Button, not my set anyway 

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I've only got freeview, it's on channel 606 for me


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## Slightlyconfused (19 August 2016)

sasquatch said:



			please tell me I wasn't the only one wishing she would have let go of the reins when she came off there.
		
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Yep mum and I are right there with you. Could have been very nasty for horse and rider.


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

hope this rider is okay, regardless of the standard of riding, it's never nice to see someone fall and get hurt.

was that the same grey Harry Potter, or was it a different one?


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## Hungey (19 August 2016)

This is the first time I've watched this and should I be surprised by how bad the riding is? I'm sitting here and physically cringing in my seat!


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

I was yelling LET GO at that one, neat forward roll!

This current horse, saw that stop coming a mile off, and then that last jink thumped her into the wing. Hope she's ok.


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## Slightlyconfused (19 August 2016)

Hope she is okay.


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## Flame_ (19 August 2016)

I watch this event every time with fascination, disbelief and sometimes despair! 

It's just wrong on so many levels. It should be dressage.

ETA I think jumping an unfamiliar horse round 1m20 would be challenging at least to most people other than professional riders. Fair play to them for bottle but its blooming silly, dangerous and unfair on the horses.


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## Wishful (19 August 2016)

I liked the look of the grey - poor horse. How have the girls who got eliminated managed to do as well as they've done in the past - can almost hear my instructor's comments as they go around.  

Not that I ride 120cm classes but I would have thought that military horses would be more used to changes of gung ho riders.


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## teapot (19 August 2016)

They don't let go because catching the horse eats into their time allowed according to the early commentary

Hope that girl's ok...


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## Red-1 (19 August 2016)

Well, the first few horses have been fantastic!


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

I think a running theme is the defensive seat. Along with not kicking all the way into the jump and holding too tight. These horses are being very generous, but some of the lines through the combinations are appalling!


Oh and this one is lost...

ETA

Lost twice


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## Shadowdancing (19 August 2016)

This rider needs a sat nav!!


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## Wishful (19 August 2016)

Mexican girl learned her lesson from London - much better pictures as we go up the field!


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

This fleabitten grey is lovely. Can't work out if it's the rider riding better or the horse just being a star!


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## Wishful (19 August 2016)

Looks like it's easily within the scope of the horses if ridden properly


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## Wishful (19 August 2016)

Like scopier classier versions of the RS horses - you miss/get ahead of the movement they will stop/trust you less!


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

that grey horse Carpe Diem was just having a demolition derby there


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## teapot (19 August 2016)

Wishful said:



			Like scopier classier versions of the RS horses - you miss/get ahead of the movement they will stop/trust you less!
		
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Yup, and being from one place/owner they'll all be of the same standard, compared to privately owned.


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

the korean rider had a nice round, she's maybe holding the horse a bit too much but it looks like it's another strong one as well. 
she didn't look the most stylish, but was able to maintain her seat and kept a good rhythm


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

American rider looks like she's sticking her bum in the air as she goes round


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

Mexican girl really just needs to put her leg on, she's getting horrible sticky jumps from what looks to be a very honest horse who's carrying her round. 

I'm guessing she's not much of a rider, and is just getting her canter and then aiming the horse at fences and hoping they'll clear them.


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

What a shame. the first round really wrecked the confidence of that horse


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

I do wonder if the riders who are the second riders of the horses are at a disadvantage if the horse has had refusals/falls with their first riders.


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

Harry Potter goes again!

the Brazillian girl seems to be a bit more of a rider, but he still looks like he's a bit of a brute.


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

Yup! More leg and harry potter goes much better!


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## Slightlyconfused (19 August 2016)

Harry Potter showing how he needs to be ridden, really like him.


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

what a surprise, the gb rider looks like she can ride


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

Kylara said:



			what a surprise, the gb rider looks like she can ride 

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the horse looks totally different as well, had a few sticky jumps but she's able to handle it and stay balanced and get him over.


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## Shadowdancing (19 August 2016)

Woo hoo gb!
Harry potter is a heck of a jumper!


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

Shadowdancing said:



			Woo hoo gb!
Harry potter is a heck of a jumper!
		
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I think he'd be great fun to take xc


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

I do wonder how some of these horses put up with some of those riders.


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

Kate had a lovely round. Shame our second GB rider's horse was a bit lazy behind over those spreads.

One just gone looked terrifying over the final double, good horse to jump the second part with that much yanking!


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

Harry Potter looked like one of those the less hand you use the better - all on leg and seat with odd checks round corners. Really lovely.

Yes that chestnut was taking her round the course, what a genuine horse to put up with her - no leg at all and absolutely no support whatsoever.

Irish rider looks solid.

I can't get over how many of them had toes jammed down, flappy lower legs and looked so unbalanced - if I was teaching any of them they would not be going anywhere near a jump!


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

Kylara said:



			Kate had a lovely round. Shame our second GB rider's horse was a bit lazy behind over those spreads.

One just gone looked terrifying over the final double, good horse to jump the second part with that much yanking!
		
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I was pleasantly surprised, given that the other American rider was her sister and looked to be much more of a rider.

Irish girl has had a nice clear round, and her hair isn't flapping down her back! Maybe not the most stylish, but she looked like she's been one of the best so far along with the riders from GB.


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

Shame about that elimination, horse went so well for first rider (until it didn't) and obviously confidence heavily damaged - she rode it well, but it was balking a good 3/4 strides out. I think if she'd ridden first she would have gotten around fine.


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## Wishful (19 August 2016)

Starting to think any horse eliminated should be subbed out if the new rider asks after a practice fence


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## teapot (19 August 2016)

Wishful said:



			Starting to think any horse eliminated should be subbed out if the new rider asks after a practice fence
		
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You can ask for a different horse but only in certain circumstances I think


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## Wishful (19 August 2016)

Actual lameness I think rather than loss of confidence unfortunately - you have to hope you get a competent rider on the horse before you otherwise you're stuffed


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## Shadowdancing (19 August 2016)

Carpe diem could really jump too!


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## Kylara (19 August 2016)

Wearing a body protector - does she think she'll fall? looks quite unbalanced/uncomfortable. 

Is she on that chestnut that took the other rider round?


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## Wishful (19 August 2016)

French girl so much better than London


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## MargotC (19 August 2016)

After watching the women's showjumping round today I can safely say this is one sport I will not be revisiting as a viewer. There were a handful of sympathetic riders but equestrianism to me is all about the partnership between horse and rider and not about bombing around on an unknown horse without setting it up properly to fences. I am aware they only have twenty minutes and five practise jumps to aquaint themselves with the horse drawn but I wonder where concern for the horse comes into this sport?

On top the commentary was awful. One honest horse was described as "dour" for what reason? And the horses consistently kept getting the blame for the results of poor riding.

If this is the Olympic standard I do not want to think about what goes on in the lower levels of pentathlon.


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## soloequestrian (19 August 2016)

I watched a bit of it in 2012 and was so horrified I haven't looked this time.  Is there a way to influence this?  BHS?  Olympic committee?  UK modern pentathlon people?  Surely they could either bring their own horses or change the equestrianism to some other sport that didn't need an animal to be badly handled as part of it?


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## teapot (19 August 2016)

soloequestrian said:



			Surely they could either bring their own horses
		
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That's not what the sport is about - it's about proving you can ride an unknown horse, which ultimately is one of the toughest tests any rider can do. It's why some riding school riders do far better at uni competitions than those who only ride their own.

I didn't think tonight was too bad tbf, ie I've seen worse at various places. Those horses knew exactly what they were doing and showed up those who weren't giving enough with their hand, not using their leg enough or on a duff stride. 

As for 'badly handled', if you want to start heading down that route, go watch some of the jumping rounds from earlier on in the week! Heck Meredith MB had a duff stride this afternoon, got left behind and came through a 1m60 oxer...


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## MargotC (19 August 2016)

And as others mentioned before me; that fall where the rider held onto the reins and yanked the horse's head was awful. Am I to understand a sport that relies on animals has rules in place (time taken up by a fall and remounting) that directly interfer with the animals' welfare following an incident on course?!


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## ester (19 August 2016)

I didn't watch this evening but does the time allowed end up quite tight? I can never tell if that is why they go so fast, or whether because they go so fast they take the longest lines possible to everything.


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## spacefaer (19 August 2016)

Kylara said:



			what a surprise, the gb rider looks like she can ride 

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She did PC tetrathlon as a teenager apparently


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## ester (19 August 2016)

Ah catching up, they did say on the test ride with the Brazilian riders nothing would have made the time, I'm sure that doesn't help though they seem less gallopy as less space than London.


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## sasquatch (19 August 2016)

ester said:



			Ah catching up, they did say on the test ride with the Brazilian riders nothing would have made the time, I'm sure that doesn't help though they seem less gallopy as less space than London.
		
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I think some of the horses are quite strong and some seem to be getting faster/stronger towards the end and I think some of the riders are also just kicking on without presenting the horses properly. Noticeably, some of the less experienced riders seem to be letting the horses just come into the fences as they like or just kicking on and aiming at the fence, which in some cases seems to be very fast.

I had to get dinner so am watching from where I paused it, on the Canadian rider who was sitting in 10th and her horse noticeably doesn't seem as 'gallopy' as some of the others, yet she appears to be a decent rider and a lot of the better riders don't seem to be as gallopy though.


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## ester (19 August 2016)

yes but a tight time is going to make everyone think they have to keep moving, a bit too much than would be ideal/what these horses are used to. I wonder if being a bit more generous would encourage better riding.


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## Wishful (19 August 2016)

I thought the horses were the best suited group I've seen - they really reminded of riding school horses - ride properly and they would be generous, drop them on the last stride and you're going up the neck/over the head.  All of them looked like 120 was "easy" enough that if you were balanced and in a good rhythm they would sort out a less than ideal stride.

2 of the athletes who fell in London went clear/1 down here - the Mexican was flagged by the commentators and I remembered Clouvel because they said she'd not been riding long in London having been pushed from the swimming team and taught to fence/ride/shoot.

Would love to be good enough to compete - looks like a great challenge!


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## Kadastorm (20 August 2016)

Well, at least the British and Irish girls showed some classy riding. The others however, not impressed and I feel for the horses. Some better riders also had a raw deal, being second to ride on horses that had had shocking pilots and been eliminated their first time round.


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## suffolkmare (20 August 2016)

BBC breakfast were just discussing the Pentathlon and the expert (sorry, name escapes me) described the show jumping phase as a true lottery, "... if you get a bad horse..." he then quickly tried to say the horses were of a certain quality, but damage done


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## ester (20 August 2016)

Kadastorm said:



			Well, at least the British and Irish girls showed some classy riding. The others however, not impressed and I feel for the horses. Some better riders also had a raw deal, being second to ride on horses that had had shocking pilots and been eliminated their first time round.
		
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They really should have an official that can say no, that horse cannot go again it has lost it's confidence as well as if it is injured etc. It isn't a hard thing for most experienced horse people to judge. That bay horse was completely stressed out going in again and that girl looked like one of the more able riders (think she got gold in london) but hadn't a hope.


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## wallflower (20 August 2016)

suffolkmare said:



			BBC breakfast were just discussing the Pentathlon and the expert (sorry, name escapes me) described the show jumping phase as a true lottery, "... if you get a bad horse..." he then quickly tried to say the horses were of a certain quality, but damage done 

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Well, to be fair, if I'd drawn Carpe Diem I'd be cursing under my breath.

And yeah, *teapot* has it right, they aren't going to change the whole sport and bring in their own horses!
The entire pentathlon is based on the idea of getting a message from A to B, and you have to cross a whole battlefield to do so. So you swim, fence, ride, run, and shoot your way through - so dressage definitely wouldn't fit in. TBH, it should probably be cross country instead of SJ, but someone clearly drew the line!


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## MagicMelon (20 August 2016)

What time is the mens SJ on?  Think its on today?


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## wallflower (20 August 2016)

MagicMelon said:



			What time is the mens SJ on?  Think its on today?
		
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7.30pm


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## MagicMelon (20 August 2016)

Thanks!


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## Micky (20 August 2016)

Why oh why are they even allowed to wear Spurs in the SJ?!!


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

Anyone watching?


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## LeneHorse (20 August 2016)

it is not appearing on my red button list - has it started?


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

ester said:



			They really should have an official that can say no, that horse cannot go again it has lost it's confidence as well as if it is injured etc. It isn't a hard thing for most experienced horse people to judge. That bay horse was completely stressed out going in again and that girl looked like one of the more able riders (think she got gold in london) but hadn't a hope.
		
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I think the girl who had the grey horse that the rider had the bad fall into the jump wing from also had problems as the horse had just completely lost confidence after that fall. 

Do the men ride the same horse as the women? 
I have to say, I thought a lot of the women rode much better than London. Whilst some were awful, the horses showed that most of the time. Most of them whilst they didn't look at home on a horse, at least looked like they had had some lessons and were just very novicey and not as bad as some of the riders in London.

Men's has started now, first one in has had two refusals but the rider didn't seem to be too bad.


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

Yes it has - I'm on red button 605


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

LeneHorse said:



			it is not appearing on my red button list - has it started?
		
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if you want to watch online - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/olympics/36834918


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

Some new horses, some from yesterday


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

I feel like this round maybe shows how good Kate was yesterday.
Looks like a very honest horse.


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

did he knock more down than he kept up? :O


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## wallflower (20 August 2016)

sasquatch said:



			Do the men ride the same horse as the women?
		
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It's a mixture of the same horses and new ones, the pool they make the draw from contains more horses than riders.


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

The men seem a bit better so far..


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## MargotC (20 August 2016)

wallflower said:



			It's a mixture of the same horses and new ones, the pool they make the draw from contains more horses than riders.
		
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But if there are more horses than riders why are some horses made to go twice?


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

MargotC said:



			But if there are more horses than riders why are some horses made to go twice?
		
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Because it's luck of the random draw. Two x two min rounds is hardy hard work.


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

This bay with bunches looks nice!

Though rider looks like his hat is too big


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

Max Esposito was impressive! Nice little horse too. You wouldn't guess he'd never set eyes on it before tonight!


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

That whack was a bit unnecessary - complete rider mess into the blue and purple. Not surprised horse flatly refused to jump any more.


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## Lexi_ (20 August 2016)

I thought they weren't allowed military uniforms at the Olympics? That Hungarian bloke appears to be wearing one!


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

It's odd - maybe he is representing the armed forces as they pay for him? 

Horse seemed very keen!


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

Oh dear!


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			I thought they weren't allowed military uniforms at the Olympics? That Hungarian bloke appears to be wearing one!
		
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Well I'm not sure the French protest got anywhere in the Eventing so...


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

This horse doesn't look happy after it's been remounted.


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## MagicMelon (20 August 2016)

Umm... sorry but who allowed these riders to carry whips and wear spurs?  They can barely ride, its 99% of the time totally their own fault if a horse refuses yet the poo horses get pelted and spurs dug into their sides as a result. My 4yo son would be able to use spurs better (not that he'll ever be allowed them).


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

Kylara said:



			It's odd - maybe he is representing the armed forces as they pay for him? 

Horse seemed very keen!
		
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He's definitely a member of the armed forces, according to the commentators.


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## Madam Min (20 August 2016)

So far, the Irish lad seemed the best! The others OMG!!!!


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## ElleSkywalker (20 August 2016)

Dear me. Not sure my nerves can take this.


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## Lexi_ (20 August 2016)

HashRouge said:



			He's definitely a member of the armed forces, according to the commentators.
		
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Oh, not disputing that! So are half the Italian eventers, technically. I just thought you weren't allowed military uniform at the Olympics.


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			Oh, not disputing that! So are half the Italian eventers, technically. I just thought you weren't allowed military uniform at the Olympics.
		
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As I said, I'm not sure the French got that far with their protest about it so maybe it's a myth?


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			Oh, not disputing that! So are half the Italian eventers, technically. I just thought you weren't allowed military uniform at the Olympics.
		
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Sorry I was responding to Kylara who said maybe he was representing the military because they were paying for him. Which I'm sure they are, but only because he's actually a member of the armed forces. I can't find anything about whether you can wear military uniforms or not - perhaps because pentathlon has a military background the rules are different?


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

HashRouge said:



			Sorry I was responding to Kylara who said maybe he was representing the military because they were paying for him. Which I'm sure they are, but only because he's actually a member of the armed forces. I can't find anything about whether you can wear military uniforms or not - perhaps because pentathlon has a military background the rules are different?
		
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Eventing's a military sport too.


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## Madam Min (20 August 2016)

Eeeeeek!!! 2 falls!!!!   :-(


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

Madam Min said:



			Eeeeeek!!! 2 falls!!!!   :-(
		
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nice to see him giving the horse a big pat at least though


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## Lexi_ (20 August 2016)

Oh bless the Czech guy! Two falls and he was still really nice to the horse at the end.


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

British rider looks very good, nice to see him give the horse a pat to try and settle him as well.


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

is this the same korean rider who had the horse flip on him at London?


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## Shadowdancing (20 August 2016)

sasquatch said:



			nice to see him giving the horse a big pat at least though 

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I felt so bad for him they were going so well n cant believe he had a smile after being ditched twice! Nice to give horse a pat.


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

That last round was dreadful, appalling riding.


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

teapot said:



			Eventing's a military sport too.
		
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I didn't know that. Perhaps the no uniform rule is just a myth then.


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## ihatework (20 August 2016)

HashRouge said:



			That last round was dreadful, appalling riding.
		
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The rider needed to be shot. Poor riding obviously caused the problem but the attitude after was really disturbing


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

Shadowdancing said:



			I felt so bad for him they were going so well n cant believe he had a smile after being ditched twice! Nice to give horse a pat.
		
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Yeah, I thought he didn't look too bad at all either. Do have to admit the fall at the wall was a bit funny as he just seemed to topple over onto the other side.


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## Shadowdancing (20 August 2016)

Mexican rider should be hugging the life out of that horse instead of bragging to the crowd- he carried him around there!!


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## ElleSkywalker (20 August 2016)

Eeeeeeee where's it gone? Was watching on blue button?

Eta found it sky 476


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

this Hungarian rider looks like he's holding that horse very very short and really pulling at it.


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

Clatter clatter clatter


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

Is it me or do the riders from the Asian countries all ride with very short reins?


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

I like this chestnut horse Ariadne.
she looks absolutely massive as well.


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

I should be used to it by now but I'm still amazed at all the empty seats!


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

I'd also like to say it's nice to see the riders who give the horse a pat afterwards. I know not all of them do, but I noticed it yesterday with the women that quite a lot did, even after falls and refusals.


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

Do you think someone should tell this guy about jump position?


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## Shadowdancing (20 August 2016)

Kylara said:



			Do you think someone should tell this guy about jump position?
		
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What jumping position?!! &#128558;


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

Are we talking about the Japanese rider? Because although he didn't look like the most experienced rider at least he managed the round with hanging onto the horse's mouth the entire way!


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

No the one before. Maybe also which bit of the foot should be touching the stirrup  I'm amazed he didn't fall off! 

I thought the Japanese guy did alright.


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

Good grief, apparently averaging 20 faults a piece!

This guy takes heels down to a while new level...


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

Kylara said:



			Good grief, apparently averaging 20 faults a piece!

This guy takes heels down to a while new level...
		
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Each fence is seven down though, not four


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

Yes, but that's still a lot of points! 

Egypt bro one did quite well. I'm amazed his legs don't swing with such jamming of heels down


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

Nice round from the British lad, not bad at all.


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## Shadowdancing (20 August 2016)

Did anyone hear the commentator say they don't have to ride in the final qualifiers for olympics or something.. something about the semis... didn't catch it.


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

Joe Choong didn't do badly for someone who has confessed they don't enjoy riding and looked petrified of the horse for most of his round.


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

Nice from Joe especially as he doesn't like the riding bit. 

We obviously have a good riding coach - both lads good solid lower leg and riding all the way to the fence. 

Next is Egypt bro 2, how will he do?  Less heel jamming than his brother...


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

Shadowdancing said:



			Did anyone hear the commentator say they don't have to ride in the final qualifiers for olympics or something.. something about the semis... didn't catch it.
		
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I can understand instead of having a competition like the SJ/eventing/dressage not including SJ, but if it was the actual events they needed to complete for their olympic qualification then I'm shocked.


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

I spoke too soon. Heel jamming in full force  

Accumulator round?


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

coach didn't look too happy there.


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

Reserve horse for German... Looks nice if a bit strung out


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

I think that horse got him out of a bit of bother there!


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## Shadowdancing (20 August 2016)

sasquatch said:



			I can understand instead of having a competition like the SJ/eventing/dressage not including SJ, but if it was the actual events they needed to complete for their olympic qualification then I'm shocked.
		
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Something about it coming down to swimming running and shooting... i wish I'd heard but i have a noisy houseful here.


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## Kylara (20 August 2016)

What a lovely horse! Took him round nicely, rider wasn't yanking, kept horse en a good rhythm, even if he did look a bit unbalanced and he patted it after!


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

what is up with that shouting?


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

sasquatch said:



			what is up with that shouting?
		
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Might be something in the next arena - I think the women were riding during the hockey bronze medal match yesterday!


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## MargotC (20 August 2016)

teapot said:



			Because it's luck of the random draw. Two x two min rounds is hardy hard work.
		
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I got that. Just seems a strange setup, particularly with enough horses to go around. As has been pointed out before the riders who went second on a horse involved in a fall easily had a disadvantage.

How many times can the same horse be drawn, then? Is the name thrown back into the pot after it has been drawn twice as well?


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

MargotC said:



			I got that. Just seems a strange setup, particularly with enough horses to go around. As has been pointed out before the riders who went second on a horse involved in a fall easily had a disadvantage.

How many times can the same horse be drawn, then? Is the name thrown back into the pot after it has been drawn twice as well?
		
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If a horse ditches someone you can change, or at least appeal. Fairly sure they only jump twice unless needed as a back up. I guess it stems from the original rules that your cavalry horse may not be the best, or fit etc and you still have to ride it.


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## Shadowdancing (20 August 2016)

teapot said:



			If a horse ditches someone you can change, or at least appeal. Fairly sure they only jump twice unless needed as a back up. I guess it stems from the original rules that your cavalry horse may not be the best, or fit etc and you still have to ride it.
		
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These last two riders swapped to reserve horses. Can't remember which horses they were supposed to have.


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## HashRouge (20 August 2016)

I think Dogue, the German lad was due to have one that lost its rider. Think it was the second of the military riders. I wonder if the Russian was supposed to have the horse that ditched its rider twice?


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## Nicnac (20 August 2016)

They're running around the show jumps now.  All a bit mad


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

HashRouge said:



			I think Dogue, the German lad was due to have one that lost its rider. Think it was the second of the military riders. I wonder if the Russian was supposed to have the horse that ditched its rider twice?
		
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I think they said the Russian was meant to have the first horse? not sure. 

tbh, I think they should have the weaker riders riding round an easier/lower course for less points, and the more experienced riders riding for 300 with all riders assessed as to their ability by 3 judges on the flat and over fences say every 3 - 6 months, it may give the riders more motivation to at least attend weekly lessons. You could see the improvement in the French girl in 4 years, even for those who aren't natural riders or don't enjoy the riding, you want to be able to ride well enough to have as best a round as possible. I thought Joe Choong showed that you don't have to be a natural rider or even really enjoy the SJ phase to still have a decent enough position to be able to ride round efficiently.

I don't understand how the riding element can be so noticeably weak for some, yet they're able to qualify for the Olympics and compete and win pentathlon titles.


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## sasquatch (20 August 2016)

Nicnac said:



			They're running around the show jumps now.  All a bit mad 

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it's a bit reminiscent of trying to catch my horse after he's decided to part ways hehe


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

Something about wanting to keep the sport compact. 

Proves you do have to be an all rounder


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## Lexi_ (20 August 2016)

sasquatch said:



			I think they said the Russian was meant to have the first horse? not sure. 

tbh, I think they should have the weaker riders riding round an easier/lower course for less points, and the more experienced riders riding for 300 with all riders assessed as to their ability by 3 judges on the flat and over fences say every 3 - 6 months, it may give the riders more motivation to at least attend weekly lessons. You could see the improvement in the French girl in 4 years, even for those who aren't natural riders or don't enjoy the riding, you want to be able to ride well enough to have as best a round as possible. I thought Joe Choong showed that you don't have to be a natural rider or even really enjoy the SJ phase to still have a decent enough position to be able to ride round efficiently.

I don't understand how the riding element can be so noticeably weak for some, yet they're able to qualify for the Olympics and compete and win pentathlon titles.
		
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I've been thinking the same thing! If you're an elite sportsperson and 1/5 of your chosen discipline is riding, shouldn't you make a bit more effort to be good at it? Some of them honestly don't look they've bothered with any lessons or coaching!


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## teapot (20 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			I've been thinking the same thing! If you're an elite sportsperson and 1/5 of your chosen discipline is riding, shouldn't you make a bit more effort to be good at it? Some of them honestly don't look they've bothered with any lessons or coaching!
		
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To be fair, I've seen people lose their ability riding horses they don't know on the flat, let alone around a course that 1m20 fences in...  

Men's was definitely better standards wise though.


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## Shadowdancing (20 August 2016)

Czech rider was my absolute hero and I'd nominate him for a sportsmanship award... still smiling after two falls, still kind to the horse afterwards and really not a bad rider at all. I thought he was riding a lovely round up to the wall!


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## Wishful (21 August 2016)

The not riding thing is that you have to qualify at the world cups to do the final 36 who do the whole thing including the riding - because it would be unfair for the horses to do more than 2 rounds and it would be impossible to find enough horses with the easy scope to jump 1.20 to have the ride open to all.  So if you don't make the top 36 in the qualifiers you don't ride.  At most sports the Olympics is slightly weaker than the European/World Championships so with zonal qualifying you might just get people outside the top 36 who would normally qualify gor the riding!


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