# Shameful riding at Badminton XC



## Mondy (24 April 2011)

Lauren Shannon's Zero Flight took his name seriously and refused at the lake. 

Unsurprising, considering the strides towards the jump did not fit in any way - yet, the rider responded by heavy-handedly sawing his mouth before taking the reins in one hand to leave the other free for whipping the horse. It was a very ugly spectacle, made even clearer for the viewer's pleasure by the subsequent replay in slow motion. 

In Denmark, such behaviour would have seen her eliminated and given a hefty telling-off. Maybe I'm culturally damaged in that way; I'm used to a mode of thinking that does not tolerate punishment, and certainly not punishment for an error that belonged to the one on top.


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## Mondy (24 April 2011)

And Ingrid Klimke has just demonstrated how to do this riding thing properly. Absolutely delightful - such a sympathetic horsewoman.


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## teapot (24 April 2011)

If it warrants a speaking to by the stewards then they'll speak to her no doubt, especially given the number of high up officials attending Badminton...


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## Mondy (24 April 2011)

Poor Ingrid Klimke. Nasty fall :-(


Regarding the stewarding, that is part of my problem. What grates me seems accepted as the norm.


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## stolensilver (24 April 2011)

I've been thinking Ingrid Klimke was riding a bit wild and fast and unfortunately she has paid for it with a crashing fall. I hope she's OK but her leg doesn't look good. :0(


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## olderthanshelooks (24 April 2011)

what happened to Ingrid, went to eat my dinner come back to see her being lited onto a stretcher. Damn red button decided not to work on the freeview so missed the last 15 mins


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## teapot (24 April 2011)

Mondy said:



			Poor Ingrid Klimke. Nasty fall :-(


Regarding the stewarding, that is part of my problem. What grates me seems accepted as the norm.
		
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Tbf, you won't know whether she gets pulled up by the stewards until the end of the competition, if at all. BE & FEI  produce a list every year though.


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## Crazydancer (24 April 2011)

olderthanshelooks said:



			what happened to Ingrid, went to eat my dinner come back to see her being lited onto a stretcher. Damn red button decided not to work on the freeview so missed the last 15 mins
		
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Mine too, but found if I went straight to channel 301 I picked it up again. Hope that helps!


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## sonjafoers (24 April 2011)

She clipped the upright going into Huntsmans & the horse fell. She skidded along the floor & he skidded and seemed to put his weight on her leg when he got up.


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## olderthanshelooks (24 April 2011)

Crazydancer said:



			Mine too, but found if I went straight to channel 301 I picked it up again. Hope that helps!
		
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it's ok I am back on the sofa with the sky box again now. Unfortunately I have to go milking in 20 mins, hoping everything goes smoothly so I get back again to see the last few riders


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## cptrayes (24 April 2011)

Mondy said:



			Lauren Shannon's Zero Flight took his name seriously and refused at the lake. 

Unsurprising, considering the strides towards the jump did not fit in any way - yet, the rider responded by heavy-handedly sawing his mouth before taking the reins in one hand to leave the other free for whipping the horse. It was a very ugly spectacle, made even clearer for the viewer's pleasure by the subsequent replay in slow motion. 

In Denmark, such behaviour would have seen her eliminated and given a hefty telling-off. Maybe I'm culturally damaged in that way; I'm used to a mode of thinking that does not tolerate punishment, and certainly not punishment for an error that belonged to the one on top.
		
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Mondy I have looked up your profile and see you are a dressage rider. I don't disagree that such riding is unfair on the horse and unnattractive to the viewer, but I wonder if you are at all aware of the level of adrenaline coursing through a rider's veins as they ride a big cross country course? I only did Novice, but fixed timber courses up to 1.10 high and 2.4m wide with heart-stopping drops, turns, steps, and bounces had me high as a kite before we even got out of the start box.

It is very easy for us to sit in our chairs and criticise. When you are out there on the course, you are on a different planet, and behaviour that you can see in retrospect is not desireable is, in my opinion, unavoidable from time to time at that level of competition.  It is, after all, a competition and getting back to the fence quickly and getting over it could make the difference between being placed and not being placed. Provided the horse shows no damage, I do not believe she should be punished for competitive riding in the heat of the moment.


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## Sarah Sum1 (24 April 2011)

I could have sworn she actually patted the horse to calm it down after the refusal, then promptly wacked it on the bum. Which was a tad confusing. But could have been my eyes 

I have seen worse displays of bad horsemanship, mostly at my local riding club  But agree she was a tad over the top, but as cptrayes say's, she is probably full of adrenilin and only thing on her mind was getting over the jump. 

I am sure if the officials think she was in the wrong, she will be spoken to.


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## kit279 (24 April 2011)

I shall go against the grain here - I thought the horse looked like he knew he had stopped and she tried to calm him down first then gave him a smack to remind him to make more effort the second time round.  What would you rather, that she patted him and then he crawled into the fence without impulsion and fell?  Better a smack first in that situation.


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## [59668] (24 April 2011)

I thought that from the horses point of view the smack she gave it won't make sense. She pulled him up. And then smacked him. Horses think in the moment. So the horse was smacked for stopping. Which is what she asked him to do.


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## sonjafoers (24 April 2011)

She looked to me like she took a bit of time to let them both get their heads before continuing. Rather that than act in the heat of the moment and make a terrible mistake.


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## teagreen (24 April 2011)

Well I wish to be obnoxious and say this is just like racing, yet without the complaints. I've only watched it on and off and have seen an extremely lame horse early doors having hit its stifle, one girl refuse near the lake then decide the best plan was to saw her horses mouth (strong bit, too) then whack it and I watched one horse fall, look exhausted and then recieve more water than Ballabriggs did whilst looking tired and shakey. Oh, and a women get taken off with her leg in a splint.

I'm not against eventing in any way shape or form - but where's the difference between what I'm watching now and racing?

Over2You certainly won't be happy (or, going by her username, will she?) at all these exhausted looking horses 'in the name of sport'


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## kit279 (24 April 2011)

[59668] said:



			I thought that from the horses point of view the smack she gave it won't make sense. She pulled him up. And then smacked him. Horses think in the moment. So the horse was smacked for stopping. Which is what she asked him to do.
		
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No, I disagree.  The horse wasn't smacked for stopping.  He was smacked to remind him to jump the second time round.


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## Sarah Sum1 (24 April 2011)

One thing I know for sure, I certainly would never be brave enough to ride around Badminton, even if I was talented enough. I would have a heart attack. 

Good luck to them!


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## Flibble (24 April 2011)

kit279 said:



			I shall go against the grain here - I thought the horse looked like he knew he had stopped and she tried to calm him down first then gave him a smack to remind him to make more effort the second time round.  What would you rather, that she patted him and then he crawled into the fence without impulsion and fell?  Better a smack first in that situation.
		
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I agree there seem to be quite a few people who miss the point.


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## JoG (24 April 2011)

I'm with kit on this.....IMHO she calmed the horse after he appeared wound up by the stop, then gave him a quick slap as a bit of a "come on wake up lets do this"


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## Megan_T (24 April 2011)

They all have balls of steel in my opinion.

Must be a nasty fall at the sunken road for Elizabeth Power to have caused such a long delay. Hope horse and rider are both okay..... always worrying.

When the BBC stop commentary as well, you know it's bad.


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## eventergirl87 (24 April 2011)

kit279 said:



			I shall go against the grain here - I thought the horse looked like he knew he had stopped and she tried to calm him down first then gave him a smack to remind him to make more effort the second time round.  What would you rather, that she patted him and then he crawled into the fence without impulsion and fell?  Better a smack first in that situation.
		
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completely agree.... her riding up to and after the lake was very good imo 

very easy to throw stones sat here having never don't anything of that caliber.... I've seen worse riding... much worse by some so called professionals at lower level events.


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## Millie&Missy (24 April 2011)

who fell - theres no coverage and i cant get the tv to rewind?


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## TarrSteps (24 April 2011)

teapot said:



			Tbf, you won't know whether she gets pulled up by the stewards until the end of the competition, if at all. BE & FEI  produce a list every year though.
		
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The list makes interesting reading - far more people get called on various things than people seem to think.  Quite often it doesn't "make the news" when people get a fine or a suspension unless it's a very high profile case/competition.  I'll be curious to see what the Swiss rider gets.


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## Flibble (24 April 2011)

Interestingly I forgot to make a note but I was impressed by the riding position of several of the young riders particularly a secure lower leg I would kill for as I have windmills at the end of my knees.


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## Janah (24 April 2011)

Doesn't look good, very long delay.

Jane


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## Janah (24 April 2011)

Back in business.  Elizabeth taken to Frenchay Hospital, she is conscious.  Nothing about her horse.

Jane


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## Millie&Missy (24 April 2011)

sounds like the horse is OK


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## sonjafoers (24 April 2011)

Talking of shameful riding wtf is andreas osholt doing??


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## [59668] (24 April 2011)

kit279 said:



			No, I disagree.  The horse wasn't smacked for stopping.  He was smacked to remind him to jump the second time round.
		
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Lol yeah I know. But from the horses point of view he was smacked for stopping. Horses don't think ahead like that. How would he have known the smack was to remind him to jump next time!


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## Kadastorm (24 April 2011)

It amazes me how judgemental you lot are. You are not the ones riding around that course are you? if you feel you could do it in a better way i would love to see you hop on and show me. But of course that wouldnt happen. 
I would much rather they had a couple of reminders than trip over the jumps and fall.


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## Chloe..x (24 April 2011)

Mondy said:



			And Ingrid Klimke has just demonstrated how to do this riding thing properly. Absolutely delightful - such a sympathetic horsewoman.
		
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She was one of the worst I seen! Flying wild around the course, horse slipped up on at least two occasions so I think her fall was just deserved. You could see it coming a mile off!


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## Kadastorm (24 April 2011)

Funny that chloe because that wasnt how we saw it on the course. 
They are at the level they are because they are good riders and worked their butts off to get there. 
It doesnt always look pretty but its a test for horse and rider, not about who can be the prettiest.


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## Jesstickle (24 April 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			She was one of the worst I seen! Flying wild around the course, horse slipped up on at least two occasions so I think her fall was just deserved. You could see it coming a mile off!
		
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Quite. Even the BBC commentary team mentioned it. Well, Pippa Funnell did anyway!

Using the whip to buck your horses ideas up is cruel but running it at fences that clearly need collection in a reckless fashion is fine? OK then.


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## Chloe..x (24 April 2011)

Kadastorm said:



			Funny that chloe because that wasnt how we saw it on the course. 
They are at the level they are because they are good riders and worked their butts off to get there. 
It doesnt always look pretty but its a test for horse and rider, not about who can be the prettiest.
		
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Did you see the majority of her round as shown on the BBC's coverage?
Nearly tipped up at the Lake, nearly tipped up at another point on the course, cant remember which. 
They are at that level because they have the money to be there as well as being considered "good" 
There are many brilliant riders at my yard and at many competitions that I go but they do not have the money to have the 4* level horse. So they haven't necessarily worked there butts off to get there!


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## Spot_the_Risk (24 April 2011)

I was watching on the Red button and saw good and bad examples of riding, but what struck me the most was how the horses were tiring.  I don't think I've ever seen an event where so many have struggled - they really seemed to droop coming to the quarry - maybe they'd switched off after the long gallop from the previous complex, but it was shocking how they still had about eight jumping efforts to make, with very little petrol left in the tank.  I did think that some horses looked rather too well fleshed for the work they were having to do, although I know the TV can give a false impression of condition.


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## domane (24 April 2011)

Kadastorm said:



			Funny that chloe because that wasnt how we saw it on the course. 
They are at the level they are because they are good riders and worked their butts off to get there. 
It doesnt always look pretty but its a test for horse and rider, not about who can be the prettiest.
		
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Whilst I appreciate the amount of training and competing that has been undertaken to even GET to Badders, PLUS the amount of adrenaline in human and equine during the actual round... I would also like to point out that the majority of the competitors that make it round have not resorted to violent outbursts.


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## Amelia27 (24 April 2011)

Totally agree with the OP - the horse would never be able to associate that smack with the refused jump, either it should have been done immediately as the horse refused, a quick tap on approach the second time round or not at all (which I think would be a lot better all round).
the most abysmal riding was Louise Skelton again - shocking that she can even have got to that level she looks like a total novice and I'm surprised she hasn't killed herself and her horses by now :-(


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## WoopsiiD (24 April 2011)

Just got in from a whole day watching it in the flesh!

The only horse who seemed to be injured today was Oli Townsend horse.


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## HLOEquestrian (24 April 2011)

Kadastorm said:



			It amazes me how judgemental you lot are. You are not the ones riding around that course are you? if you feel you could do it in a better way i would love to see you hop on and show me. But of course that wouldnt happen. 
I would much rather they had a couple of reminders than trip over the jumps and fall.
		
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This is my thoughts exactly, well said.
It's very easy to judge and analyse afterwards, hindsight is a wonderful thing.


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## Over2You (24 April 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			She was one of the worst I seen! Flying wild around the course, horse slipped up on at least two occasions so I think her fall was just deserved. You could see it coming a mile off!
		
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I wouldn't say that she or the horse deserved the fall, but she was riding like a woman possessed. The commentators even said (in a not so direct way) that she was pushing her luck.


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## Over2You (24 April 2011)

sonjafoers said:



			Talking of shameful riding wtf is andreas osholt doing??
		
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My thoughts exactly. The whip did him no good at all - I think I counted about half-a-dozen smacks, but the horse refused anyway.


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## DragonSlayer (24 April 2011)

pastie2 said:



			It just SO amuses me a40, they will all be off for a quiet hack tomorrow, these armchairs, glad in the fact that they dont have to leave the ground.
		
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~snorts!~


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## B-B (25 April 2011)

What happened to Oli's horse?


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## Chloe..x (25 April 2011)

B-B said:



			What happened to Oli's horse?
		
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Left a leg at the second fence at the Quarry and kinda landed with front legs and back legs underneath him. Pretty hard to describe but the horse nearly fell at the lake for the same reason, looked very tired


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## PapaFrita (25 April 2011)

Over2You said:



			My thoughts exactly. The whip did him no good at all - I think I counted about half-a-dozen smacks, but the horse refused anyway.
		
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It was Dibowski. Half a dozen smacks would've got him eliminated.


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## Ranyhyn (25 April 2011)

I really resent hearing the intonations that some of these people are only there cause they have the money!  Yes, money paves an easier track for you - but at this level of the sport nothing can be considered easy and even people who are financially well off wouldn't be there without oodles of talent shown at some point.

I was there and didn't see any of the above mentioned bad riding, what I did see however were lots of riders taking perfect lines, making those horrendous jumps look easy.  Good show I say, most of them make me proud to be a rider!


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## aimsymc (25 April 2011)

Amelia27 said:



			Totally agree with the OP - the horse would never be able to associate that smack with the refused jump, either it should have been done immediately as the horse refused, a quick tap on approach the second time round or not at all (which I think would be a lot better all round).
the most abysmal riding was Louise Skelton again - shocking that she can even have got to that level she looks like a total novice and I'm surprised she hasn't killed herself and her horses by now :-(
		
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What a rediculous thing to say about a girl whos been round badminton for about the last 4 years usually on 2 rides!! Really dont think people should be slagging people who are out there doin it. I watch badminton and other big events to be inspired not to rip appart anyone who makes a mistake or error of judgement. Im pretty sure weve all done it, I know i have!


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## Amelia27 (25 April 2011)

Oh sorry obviously not allowed to have my own opinion - this board is ridiculous, the whole idea of discussion boards is to discuss one's opinions on a topic. I didn't say any of you are ridiculous for your opinions so how dare you have the audacity to say my opinions are ridiculous? Oh and that's how you spell ridiculous by the way ;-) 
Louise skeleton is a cr*p rider and could easily have killed her horse yesterday. I would never be able to ride round that course, but even I have better feel for a horse than her


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## Amelia27 (25 April 2011)

Skelton not skeleton obviously!


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## B-B (25 April 2011)

Thanks Papafrita.

Does anyone know about the injury?  Cant find any reports.


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## kit279 (25 April 2011)

Louise Skelton is not a crap rider - she has produced two homebred horses by herself to 4-star level.  Objectively she is not a crap rider.  I believe she had a very nasty injury and subsequent metalwork in her leg a few years ago that means she has to ride differently to how she used to so she doesn't look as stylish as some others but she is riding at the very top level.

If you see the horse and rider in action for a maximum of 7 minutes a year in a highly edited television format, I doubt very much that you can make any kind of informed judgement about the quality of her riding and to suggest that you have a better feel than someone who can take her homebreds around Badminton just suggests that you have no idea what it takes to get a horse to that level.  4-star horse don't grow on trees, they are carefully made and she has got the results to prove it.


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## PapaFrita (25 April 2011)

B-B said:



			Thanks Papafrita.

Does anyone know about the injury?  Cant find any reports.
		
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Elizabeth Power? She's fine, fortunately. Louise Skelton is fine as well, although it appears she has a beautiful black eye . Don't know about anyone else, or horses. There are updates on Facebook and on the Horse and Country website.


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## ThePinkPony (25 April 2011)

Amelia27 you should re read what you have posted and realise what a stupidly damning post that was and how it made you look.

This is a public forum, and once you post you leave yourself open to criticism, and most of the knowledgeable members dont take kindly to comments like your own.


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## Ranyhyn (25 April 2011)

Amelia27 said:



			Louise skeleton is a cr*p rider
		
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Good grief.  I don't know what is wrong with some people, honestly.


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## Amaranta (25 April 2011)

alligator40 said:



			More Armchair critics
		
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Could not agree more - makes me laugh!


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## DragonSlayer (25 April 2011)

Amelia27 said:



			Louise skeleton is a cr*p rider
		
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OK, can we have a video of you riding please? Don't care if it's over an 18 inch jump, flat work or hacking up the road?

I am an Expert of Many Years therefore I wish to look at your riding, and compare it with the woman you are calling crap.

Many thanks.


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## Holly Hocks (25 April 2011)

I think all these riders are fabulous and clearly the most talented riders in the world.  They don't specialise in one area - they have to be extremely proficient in all three disciplines - now that must take some doing!

I only saw the second half of the XC - gutted that Ruth Edge had to call it a day after such an amazing dressage score.

What I was more concerned by was the number of horses who at the end of the course were stumbling over jumps with exhaustion......everybody decided to have a go at the GN for having tired horses, but they were no more tired than some that finished yesterday....I'm surprised that nobody has started a "Let's ban eventing" thread yet!


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## aimsymc (25 April 2011)

if louise skelton is crap, then i would be pleased to be half as crap as her!!


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## OneInAMillion (25 April 2011)

Amelia27 said:



			Totally agree with the OP - the horse would never be able to associate that smack with the refused jump, either it should have been done immediately as the horse refused, a quick tap on approach the second time round or not at all (which I think would be a lot better all round).
the most abysmal riding was Louise Skelton again - shocking that she can even have got to that level she looks like a total novice and I'm surprised she hasn't killed herself and her horses by now :-(
		
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Amelia27 said:



			Louise skeleton is a cr*p rider and could easily have killed her horse yesterday. I would never be able to ride round that course, but even I have better feel for a horse than her
		
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Amelia, do you realise just how much of a cow you sound? How many 4*'s have you ridden after surviving a near fatal car crash with a fused ankle? None I would think. I really don't think you can say she is a crap rider, and it would be interesting to see you ride her horses around a 4*. The fall they had was neither of their faults really. They just had no stride and the horse tried to jump for her. Therefore it trusts her and doesn't think it is going to die. 

btw as you appear to be the world's greatest rider, why don't you post a few videos of yourself?


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## skewby (25 April 2011)

I didn't go this year and also only caught a bit of it on red button yesterday.  BUT the bit I did catch involved Pippa Funnell talking at length about a distinct lack of "coffin canter" and how it was catching people out, she was trying to analyse how to fix this with changes to lower level eventing.

So I really don't see why people have been attacked on this thread for daring to comment.

Or maybe someone should be getting in touch with Pippa, so that some of the enormous egos on this thread could offer to watch a few vids of her riding and put her straight?


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## skewby (25 April 2011)

OneInAMillion said:



			Amelia, do you realise just how much of a cow you sound?
		
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She doesn't sound like a "cow".  However with this comment, you do.


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## Jesstickle (25 April 2011)

skewby said:



			She doesn't sound like a "cow".  However with this comment, you do.
		
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How does calling someone, anyone, a cr*p rider NOT make you sound like a cow? It's just down right rude. 

All these people that we're merry slagging off and calling cr*p riders are people. They might even read this one day. 

Would you ever say it to her face? If not then you shouldn't be saying it on here either. This is a public forum and the latter could effectively amount to the former. 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course but being rude isn't ever called for.


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## lialls (25 April 2011)

teapot said:



			Tbf, you won't know whether she gets pulled up by the stewards until the end of the competition, if at all. BE & FEI  produce a list every year though.
		
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I've heard about this before. Can anyone tell me where we can find this list? Could be interesting to look at.


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## lialls (25 April 2011)

aimsymc said:



			if louise skelton is crap, then i would be pleased to be half as crap as her!!
		
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LOL, I'm with you on this one! Wheres the 'like' button?


Just to add, Louise is local to me and although shes not everyones cup of tea shes done you cant disagree that she hasnt done a fantastic job with her horses!   I didn't see her riding yesterday so don't know what happened but shes only human and we all make mistakes.  Yes its true shes got some metal work in her leg, i've never heard that this has changed her riding style but from talking to her personaly not long after the accident she said she was still very weak from it.


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## 1stclassalan (25 April 2011)

Mondy said:



			And Ingrid Klimke has just demonstrated how to do this riding thing properly. Absolutely delightful - such a sympathetic horsewoman.
		
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Agree with you about the lovely Ingrid - but it was your signature that caught my eye - don't see much of that these days ! Then I noticed where you hang out - all those dreaming spires.


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## badger1 (25 April 2011)

i would like to see those of you who are calling louise skelton a crap rider try and ride around badminton!!! 
she has produced both of her 4* rides herself! what happened on sunday was not her fault the horse misjudged the distance and took of a stride early and could not make it to the other side this simple mistake could of happened to any rider!! the rest of her round was faultless and looked a hell of a lot better then half of the other professionals! 
meanwhile while you a being extremly rude about her riding you may like to know both the horse and rider will make a full recovery!!


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## aimsymc (25 April 2011)

you may like to know both the horse and rider will make a full recovery!![/QUOTE]

Glad to hear it!! and hopefully she'll be back as good as ever next year!


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## skewbald_again (25 April 2011)

waited all weekend for some bridle-less worthy with a carrot stick to show us how it's really done, but sadly was disappointed. Not a bouncing ball in sight. Oh well, maybe next year. Or not.


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## TarrSteps (25 April 2011)

lialls said:



			I've heard about this before. Can anyone tell me where we can find this list? Could be interesting to look at.
		
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Here is the FEI decisions list (go back a page and there's another table for ongoing decisions but they only update a couple of times a year) http://www.fei.org/legal_activities/fei-tribunal/decisions

I'm sure a search would turn up the BE equivalent.

Keep in mind, too, these are only the decisions that have gone that far.  Other people may have been "spoken to" informally by Stewards and had penalties awarded that they chose not to appeal.

I'm not posting this so people can attack the people on the list, more so to dispute the point that "nothing" is done about rule breaches and welfare concerns.

As far as people having opinions, they are just opinions, aren't they?  So people are allowed to disagree.  In both directions.  None of us are in decision making positions.  It is really, really hard to say what you would or wouldn't do in this or that position and, quite frankly, a lot of people's riding choices are at least partly based on avoiding being put into situations that would make them feel uncomfortable.


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## EAST KENT (25 April 2011)

Hmm..wish I was ever as good a rider as these guys,leave the professionals alone .


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## suzysparkle (25 April 2011)

skewbald_again said:



			waited all weekend for some bridle-less worthy with a carrot stick to show us how it's really done, but sadly was disappointed. Not a bouncing ball in sight. Oh well, maybe next year. Or not. 

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LOL - Brilliant!!


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## dozzie (25 April 2011)

I didnt see bad riding. I saw some mistakes and hairy moments but that is the nature of eventing. Well all horse sports really. It is to do with the fact that riders are human and horses have their own mind. 

I think Laura Collett (I think that is her name) is a lovely rider. One for the future hopefully. Sorry if the name is wrong but I mean the young girl who was at her first Badminton. I though she rode really well. I know she had a few blips but nevertheless, she is a good rider.


Pleased Toddy won. I went past his base earlier and the balloons are out...but they are pink! What is that all about?????


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## Elbie (25 April 2011)

There were quite a lot of groans from the crowd (and a rather dramatic NO!) when Emily Baldwin smacked her horse when he refused at the lake. I wasn't too impressed with it, I can understand a smack as a reprimand to say "that was not good, you should have jumped it, lets try again" but it seemed more like she did it in anger or frustration as she sat, readjusted her hat, walked a bit THEN delivered 3 hard smacks.

I'm not saying i'm holyer than thou and have let my frustration get the better of me before, and I have regretted it. Think it's a shame Emily's actions were seen by thousands and a lot who may not be entirely 'horse wise' and may think the sport is a bad thing.


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## Flame_ (25 April 2011)

Right, you don't need to have been round Badminton, or even be able to go round Badminton or round a pony club cross country to *see* that, for example, Andrew Nicholson is a stylish, talented rider, so why is it not possible to *see* when a rider is crap?

I didn't watch Louise Skelton, so no comment there, but these riders are at Badminton on TV for all to see, so people expect to watch awesome riding, if some of the riders appear comparatively crap, people are going to say so.


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## JanetGeorge (25 April 2011)

Amelia27 said:



			Oh sorry obviously not allowed to have my own opinion - this board is ridiculous, the whole idea of discussion boards is to discuss one's opinions on a topic. I didn't say any of you are ridiculous for your opinions so how dare you have the audacity to say my opinions are ridiculous? Oh and that's how you spell ridiculous by the way ;-) 
Louise skeleton is a cr*p rider and could easily have killed her horse yesterday. I would never be able to ride round that course, but even I have better feel for a horse than her
		
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Of COURSE you can discuss your opinion - but so can other people.  So if they think your opinions are ridiculous, expect them to say so!

And to call Louise Skelton a cr*p rider is pretty ridiculous!    Let's discount the fact that she is a BHSII and a BE accredited coach. The judgement - for me - is that she has won and placed at top level with HOME PRODUCED HORSES!!  Yes, she brought them on and trained them herself - and then got results like winning the Welsh Championships in 2003 and 2008, winning Blair Castle 3* in '05 and finishing 16th at Burghley 2009.  She qualified two home-bred and produced horses for Badminton in 2010.  She's GOT to be cr*p with those results - now remind us - what have YOU achieved??


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## Zebedee (25 April 2011)

Excellent post Janet - agree 100%




skewbald_again said:



			waited all weekend for some bridle-less worthy with a carrot stick to show us how it's really done, but sadly was disappointed. Not a bouncing ball in sight. Oh well, maybe next year. Or not. 

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PMSL........I guess we'll all have to keep waiting !


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## EAST KENT (26 April 2011)

Elbie said:



			There were quite a lot of groans from the crowd (and a rather dramatic NO!) when Emily Baldwin smacked her horse when he refused at the lake. I wasn't too impressed with it, I can understand a smack as a reprimand to say "that was not good, you should have jumped it, lets try again" but it seemed more like she did it in anger or frustration as she sat, readjusted her hat, walked a bit THEN delivered 3 hard smacks.

I'm not saying i'm holyer than thou and have let my frustration get the better of me before, and I have regretted it. Think it's a shame Emily's actions were seen by thousands and a lot who may not be entirely 'horse wise' and may think the sport is a bad thing.
		
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Well it bloomin` well went over the second go ,did`nt it?


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## skewbald_again (26 April 2011)

Elbie said:



			There were quite a lot of groans from the crowd (and a rather dramatic NO!) when Emily Baldwin smacked her horse when he refused at the lake. I wasn't too impressed with it, I can understand a smack as a reprimand to say "that was not good, you should have jumped it, lets try again" but it seemed more like she did it in anger or frustration as she sat, readjusted her hat, walked a bit THEN delivered 3 hard smacks.

I'm not saying i'm holyer than thou and have let my frustration get the better of me before, and I have regretted it. Think it's a shame Emily's actions were seen by thousands and a lot who may not be entirely 'horse wise' and may think the sport is a bad thing.
		
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as I understand it, the horse has an issue with water - he's obviously  a very capable horse, and was being a bit of a *****. 

It seems some people would preferred her to have fannied about like a cub scout, wandered into the fence half arsed, and allowed him to break her neck and his own by suspending himself across the fence, or nosediving into the groundline.

Gladly, this was Badminton, not your local All - Comers Parelli Novice, so the jockey was committed enough to get over the blooming thing. I'd just love to see some of these 'oh dearie me, Mark Todd shouldn't have done that' types do ANYTHING worthy of note at all. Cos obviously the one thing he needs is your advice!

If you don't AGREE with eventing, might I suggest you don't watch it? I don't watch darts, being unkeen on obese drunks in shiny shirts. However, it's not my job to tell them what not to do. Sorry Elbie that' s not directed at you, I realise you're not in that camp, I have somewhat wandered off my original point.

I am jolly glad she did whack the horse, as if my young daughters need a role model to think of when riding  round a cross country course, I'd prefer them to come home in one piece having remembered how to get a horse to actually jump.


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## coedcae (26 April 2011)

I didn't see Louise Skelton riding so will not comment on that but she was extremely rude much earlier on in the day when we were innocently crossing the course at one of the designated crossing points, way before the cross country started.
She screamed "Get off my line, get off my line!!!" And a further tirade, which made the ten or so people there wonder what on earth was going on. She looked at us as if we were somthing that she had just had to scrape off the bottom of her boot. It was completely over the top and unnecessary and it struck me as someone who was not full of confidence. It was wholly unproffessional and I can't imagine the people sponsoring her, who were plastered across her shirt, would have wished to have been associated with her at that point.


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## Ranyhyn (26 April 2011)

That's very bad PR Coedcae.  I am always struck by how polite and charming most of them are, William Fox-Pitt and Mary King most notably.  William has been walking by and said hello quietly whilst we all stand gawp mouthed!  And Mary King came for a chat when she got stopped on the course last year I think it was!
Manners cost nothing and those people she was rude to, could have been her next prospective owners


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## skewbald_again (26 April 2011)

Kitsune said:



			That's very bad PR Coedcae.  I am always struck by how polite and charming most of them are, William Fox-Pitt and Mary King most notably.  William has been walking by and said hello quietly whilst we all stand gawp mouthed!  And Mary King came for a chat when she got stopped on the course last year I think it was!
Manners cost nothing and those people she was rude to, could have been her next prospective owners  

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Totally agree, and know that Lucinda Fredericks makes a point of being polite to everyone, as she says the exact same thing.


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## missnaughty (26 April 2011)

I finally got down to watching it today and did see some tired horses, and tired riders and I wondered why (not sure if the rules apply) given the conditions it was rather warm, humid and the ground hard the orgnaisers could have (or maybe did have) increase the time so riders didnt push their horses too much.  I would guess the consensus of opinion would be that the weather is average in the UK and woul dnot (if they went to say Japan) take the horses to aclimatise.  We granted got caught out with the gorgeous but warm weather and for the welfare of the horse and safety of the rider they could have possibly slightly shortened the course, or taken a fence out or lengthened the optimum time.

There were a few risk takers, really going a clip and it was inevitable that there were going ot be accidents, and from the riders experience (they clearly have talent and experience to get there) I was suprised how fast and possibly a lack of judgement some people rode.

When you watch the Olympic Games you can see the class riders and the also rans (even if like me your by no means expert) that it can make you cringe a bit to see some of the riders who really have out classed themselves (you just will them to get round)

It did not suprise me how tired some of the horses were (the last Grand National springs to mind given the conditions etc) and I was suprised about the number of horses getting their reminders (justified or not) but there was a lot of stumbling.

Hope all riders and horses are ok, but I do think that maybe this could have reduced some of the issues by evaluating the course and time


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## wizoz (26 April 2011)

Mondy said:



			And Ingrid Klimke has just demonstrated how to do this riding thing properly. Absolutely delightful - such a sympathetic horsewoman.
		
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I'm really sorry but I have to disagree with you here, I watched her round and felt that she was very fast at the beginning of the course, bordering on kamakazee, I didn't think it looked very safe or pretty. It was a shame how it ended however.


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## dozzie (26 April 2011)

Cocobeans said:



			I was at BAdminton this year and watched from the grassroots until the SJ on Monday.

I have to say, there were a lot of tired horses but we have to remember these are professional event riders and to get to that level of competition, you have to be capable. 

Land Vision did look tired, but Mark Todd rode him tactfully and if anyone can get a horse out of a sticky situation, it's him.

Many of the horses needed a wake up and jump smack but what would you rather? That the rider lent forward and whispered in their ear? Fundamentally it was a challenging course - as Badminton always is - and the riders need to make sure they get their horses safely round and if giving them a smack reminds them to pick their feet up, then they did the right thing.
		
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I agree with this. There were some tired horses- more than normal. Maybe it was the heat of the previous days. 

I  think Karen O'Connor should have retired after her two stops. I was surprised when she carried on tbh. Not quite sure what she was thinking. But it is easy to sit in judgement after the event. I suspect she is kicking herself.


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## wizoz (26 April 2011)

dozzie said:



			I  think Karen O'Connor should have retired after her two stops. I was surprised when she carried on tbh. Not quite sure what she was thinking. But it is easy to sit in judgement after the event. I suspect she is kicking herself.

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If you watch again, you can see that the 2 stops the horse put in were because  he was far too close to the fence and knew he was not going to be able to take off that close, the 3rd time she presented, she got a better stride to the fence and he therefor jumped it more happily. It was a shame that the next fence was the bank, it would have been better for the horse if it was a let up fence. He is an experienced horse, with a very experienced rider and I seriously believe she thought he would be fine at the bank.

It was a really nasty fall to watch though, poor poor boy, I really hope he is going to be ok.


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## amage (26 April 2011)

Ingrid Klimke is downright scary to watch XC...I can never understand how someone who is so beautiful a rider in the dressage is so kamikaze in the country. Re: Louise Skelton...I wonder is her critic confusing style with ability?!? Louise is an incredibly good rider and producer of horses but I would not consider her stylish. That does not take anything from her ability...riding doesn't have to be pretty to be good!


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## dozzie (26 April 2011)

wizoz said:



			If you watch again, you can see that the 2 stops the horse put in were because  he was far too close to the fence and knew he was not going to be able to take off that close, the 3rd time she presented, she got a better stride to the fence and he therefor jumped it more happily. It was a shame that the next fence was the bank, it would have been better for the horse if it was a let up fence. He is an experienced horse, with a very experienced rider and I seriously believe she thought he would be fine at the bank.

It was a really nasty fall to watch though, poor poor boy, I really hope he is going to be ok.

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I was at the jump where she had the two refusals. He just didnt seem committed if you know what I mean. I was genuinely surprised when she carried on. But as I said, it is easy to sit in judgement after the event. I agree, I think she thought he would be ok but he wasnt, hence  she was probably kicking herself afterwards.


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## badger1 (28 April 2011)

'quote'  she was extremely rude much earlier on in the day when we were innocently crossing the course at one of the designated crossing points, way before the cross country started.
She screamed "Get off my line, get off my line!!!"
Your not riding the course and you dont need to stand in front of the jumps! would you not be nervous before you rode round that! So many people on saturday and sunday morning were walking on the course (ignoring the signs) and standing infront of the fences. Everyone should just wait untill end of cross country then they can do whatever they like! If you were just crossing (innocently) then how comes you ended up in the way!


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## blueneonrainbow (28 April 2011)

It would appear from some comments on the Badminton threads that unless your opinion is complimentary of the rider you are commenting, you are not in fact allowed your own opinion. I tried to count the number of "Well, we haven't seen YOU riding around Badminton, so you don't know what you're talking about" comments but I lost count between this and the other thread. Fact is, the users of this board may not be as talented, experienced, confident, and/or rich as those riding Badminton, but it doesnt mean that they are not entitled to put their views across on the way those who do choose to ride around Badminton went round the course. Some riders were clearly more sympathetic and therefore got a better tune out of their horses than others.

I for one was very uncomfortable watching Ingrid Klimkes, Emily Baldwins and Karen O'Connors rounds. I felt there was very little communication going on between horses and riders - there were other riders who I felt did a considerably better job on the day but am I not entitled to say that because I didnt go round the course and have no interest in doing so myself?


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## Flame_ (28 April 2011)

blueneonrainbow said:



			I for one was very uncomfortable watching Ingrid Klimkes, Emily Baldwins and Karen O'Connors rounds. I felt there was very little communication going on between horses and riders - there were other riders who I felt did a considerably better job on the day but am I not entitled to say that because I didnt go round the course and have no interest in doing so myself?
		
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Nope, you should gush about them all with adoration or you'll appear a bitter, jealous, wannabe. 

I don't care how I appear and if I'd paid a bit more attention this year I'd have been happy to say which ones looked crap.


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## Jennyharvey (28 April 2011)

blueneonrainbow said:



			It would appear from some comments on the Badminton threads that unless your opinion is complimentary of the rider you are commenting, you are not in fact allowed your own opinion. I tried to count the number of "Well, we haven't seen YOU riding around Badminton, so you don't know what you're talking about" comments but I lost count between this and the other thread. Fact is, the users of this board may not be as talented, experienced, confident, and/or rich as those riding Badminton, but it doesnt mean that they are not entitled to put their views across on the way those who do choose to ride around Badminton went round the course. Some riders were clearly more sympathetic and therefore got a better tune out of their horses than others.
		
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Yep, totally agree with you.


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## Ejm (29 April 2011)

I very unfortunately missed Badminton on telly this yr 
People that are slagging off top event riders are obviously jealous!!


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## JanetGeorge (29 April 2011)

blueneonrainbow said:



			It would appear from some comments on the Badminton threads that unless your opinion is complimentary of the rider you are commenting, you are not in fact allowed your own opinion. I tried to count the number of "Well, we haven't seen YOU riding around Badminton, so you don't know what you're talking about" comments but I lost count between this and the other thread. Fact is, the users of this board may not be as talented, experienced, confident, and/or rich as those riding Badminton, but it doesnt mean that they are not entitled to put their views across on the way those who do choose to ride around Badminton went round the course. Some riders were clearly more sympathetic and therefore got a better tune out of their horses than others.
		
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What some people seem to forget is that you can't JUST enter Badminton because you have the horse and the money!  You have to qualify - and the qualification is quite hard and requires some VERY good performances.  Only the 85 BEST qualified combinations are accepted - the rest go on the Waiting List and may get a run if one of the chosen combinations withdraws.  When you consider that Lucinda Fredericks and Prada - who finished 16th - were on the waiting list - that SHOULD give an idea of how hard it is to get in.  Cr*p riders just don't get there!

And - some horses REQUIRE a sympathetic ride - others NEED to be ridden in a more determined - even somewhat aggressive - fashion.  The latter type may well fall apart - or throw in stupid stops - if ridden too 'sympathetically'.  I doubt very much that riders change their style of riding JUST because they are at Badminton so chances are - that to get the necessary qualifications - they always ride THAT particular horse THAT way - because it's what he needs!  Some horses need to be asked - some need to be TOLD!


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## blueneonrainbow (29 April 2011)

You know you really do not have to capitalize every other word to emphasize your point - I'm not an idiot. I didn't say any of the riders were crap, and I appreciate it takes more than money to get a rider to badminton but the aggressive style of riding used by the above named to get their horses round obviously didn't do them much good as they fell off, whereas the more sympathetic riders, on the whole finished without too much incident. As I say there didn't seem to be a great deal of communication going on between the combinations I named which is why I assume they failed to finish.


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## tristar (30 April 2011)

friends of mine have in the past refused offers to buy horses from eventers, saying and i quote, 'they'd kill  -------- eventing', i have also refused offers for horses i would prefer to have a safer lifestyle, its wrong to assume that because they are there at badminton that they have the best horses and are the best riders, they make the choice to contest such competitions, other people make the choice not to and not to risk their horses.

horses refuse for different reasons, not all of which deserve a reprimand, if a horse stops when it feels it is wrongly presented it has made the right choice and does not need to be hit, this will happen with all horses from time to time, and as badminton is the top level of eventing trying to tackle those elements when wrong could lead to fatal fall.


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## ajn1610 (30 April 2011)

Mondy said:



			Lauren Shannon's Zero Flight took his name seriously and refused at the lake. 

Unsurprising, considering the strides towards the jump did not fit in any way - yet, the rider responded by heavy-handedly sawing his mouth before taking the reins in one hand to leave the other free for whipping the horse. It was a very ugly spectacle, made even clearer for the viewer's pleasure by the subsequent replay in slow motion. 

In Denmark, such behaviour would have seen her eliminated and given a hefty telling-off. Maybe I'm culturally damaged in that way; I'm used to a mode of thinking that does not tolerate punishment, and certainly not punishment for an error that belonged to the one on top.
		
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This did not sound like the rider I know, but didn't see the lake so I've been on you tube and found this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvpi6KWVk5Y you can see Laurens stop at about 2.40. I see no 'heavy handedly sawing his mouth' she turns away from the fence and shortens her rein which she's let slip and flexes him right as he is getting his knickers in a twist to bring him back under orders. The only time I can see on the video she used the whip is on the second approach in a totally appropriate way. Do you have the correct rider and horse? 

I know Lauren, she is a friend of mine and she would NEVER do ANYTHING to harm or endanger her horses. She adores them and has produced both Louie and Delphi up through the levels herself, Delphi totally from scratch. She is a sympathetic, intelligent, quality rider as evidenced by her two top twenty placings in her first two 4* and the fact that she has produced Delphi so well that she can be ridden round a 4* in a snaffle and a plain nose band. (I own up to being a bit bias!)

I'm not in the habit of responding to posts commenting on others riding, because I don't feel it's appropriate unless someone has specifically asked for CC but I don't think what you've said was fair of justified and I wouldn't want other people to form an incorrect opinion based on your post.


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## skewbald_again (30 April 2011)

tristar said:



			horses refuse for different reasons, not all of which deserve a reprimand, if a horse stops when it feels it is wrongly presented it has made the right choice and does not need to be hit, this will happen with all horses from time to time, and as badminton is the top level of eventing trying to tackle those elements when wrong could lead to fatal fall.
		
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And do you not think that maybe the likes of Mark Todd might actually be aware of this?

Tristar, Jennyharvey, Over2you et al - 

I have said it before - if you choose to ride and attempt to educate a horse without the use of artificial aids, that is your privilege, but I do not believe you would get round Badminton, and I actually think that the honest position is this - if you are anti discipline, then you are anti eventing.

So therefore, it is superfluous to bang on about the riding at Badminton being not to your liking, it is just Badminton that is not to your liking, and having said that, you  could move on.

If you start from a position that eventing is a good thing, and Badminton is a morally acceptable event, then it is different - some people have said for example that in Emily Baldwin's case, the smacks were delivered too late. 

I also think that saying:
'unless your opinion is complimentary of the rider you are commenting, you are not in fact allowed your own opinion.' blueneonerainbow, is a bit daft, as you are stating your opinion, if you don't like the fact that someone disgrees with you, you are saying they are not entitled to theirs! Just because someone enters into robust debate with you does not mean they are not allowing your opinion.


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## Jennyharvey (30 April 2011)

I have said it before - if you choose to ride and attempt to educate a horse without the use of artificial aids, that is your privilege, but I do not believe you would get round Badminton, 

Why wouldnt u get around badminton?  I dont think we need gadgets to train a horse.  I guess u believe that because no one has actually gone round badminton without gadgets.  Just because it hasnt been done, doesnt mean its not possible.


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## skewbald_again (30 April 2011)

Jennyharvey said:



			I have said it before - if you choose to ride and attempt to educate a horse without the use of artificial aids, that is your privilege, but I do not believe you would get round Badminton, 

Why wouldnt u get around badminton?  I dont think we need gadgets to train a horse.  I guess u believe that because no one has actually gone round badminton without gadgets.  Just because it hasnt been done, doesnt mean its not possible.
		
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Gadgets? We were talking about a whip! 
When I was a lass the 'artificial aids' amounted to whip, spurs and martingale, I'll have you know!
I don't 'believe it because it hasn't been done' plenty of people have gone round without what I would call gadgets. I think it would be foolhardy to attempt it without a whip.
I would just like to clarify your position. Do you now think that equestrian sports such as three day eventing are fine, and that people could get round them in a way which is acceptable to you, ie without the use of whip or spurs or presumably without the horse looking over tired, which you referred to before?
Or do you think they whole thing is a wrong thing to be doing with a horse?


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## Flame_ (30 April 2011)

JanetGeorge said:



			What some people seem to forget is that you can't JUST enter Badminton because you have the horse and the money!  You have to qualify - and the qualification is quite hard and requires some VERY good performances.  Only the 85 BEST qualified combinations are accepted - the rest go on the Waiting List and may get a run if one of the chosen combinations withdraws.  When you consider that Lucinda Fredericks and Prada - who finished 16th - were on the waiting list - that SHOULD give an idea of how hard it is to get in.  Cr*p riders just don't get there!
		
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Cr*p footballers don't get into the premiership, but they sometimes do deliver cr*p performances and some deliver cr*p performances more frequently than others. 

Sometimes some combinations going round badminton look like a fall waiting to happen. If the same combination were doing a riding club dressage, yes they would probably look great, but compared to their competition peers and doing the tests set for them at that level, a few always end up looking cr*p and out of their depth.


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## JanetGeorge (30 April 2011)

tristar said:



			horses refuse for different reasons, not all of which deserve a reprimand, if a horse stops when it feels it is wrongly presented it has made the right choice and does not need to be hit, this will happen with all horses from time to time, and as badminton is the top level of eventing trying to tackle those elements when wrong could lead to fatal fall.
		
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That's very true - but it's also true that if you come into one of those fences on a fading horse and DON'T wake it up, you'll fall.  No-one has commented on Mark Todd's use of the whip - can't remember which jump now but horse had lost all impulsion and was heading for a fall.  Toddy gave him 3 good cracks - in perfect balance - and off he went!  If he hadn't used his whip at that point, not only wouldn't he have won - but he almost certainly would have fallen.

There was one girl (whose name I forget) who DID need a good smack as she turned her horse away after a stop and then whacked it - that's totally pointless and a sign of spoilt brat temper.  Doesn't mean she's not normally a good rider - just that she lacks self control on the big occasion - and needs to learn it!


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## skewbald_again (30 April 2011)

oh believe me, they have. There's a whole nother thread telling Mark Todd what he should have done!


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## JanetGeorge (30 April 2011)

skewbald_again said:



			oh believe me, they have. There's a whole nother thread telling Mark Todd what he should have done!
		
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I think I might skip that one!


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## skewbald_again (30 April 2011)

JanetGeorge said:



			I think I might skip that one!

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very wise.


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## Jennyharvey (1 May 2011)

skewbald_again said:



			Gadgets? We were talking about a whip! 
When I was a lass the 'artificial aids' amounted to whip, spurs and martingale, I'll have you know!
I don't 'believe it because it hasn't been done' plenty of people have gone round without what I would call gadgets. I think it would be foolhardy to attempt it without a whip.
I would just like to clarify your position. Do you now think that equestrian sports such as three day eventing are fine, and that people could get round them in a way which is acceptable to you, ie without the use of whip or spurs or presumably without the horse looking over tired, which you referred to before?Or do you think they whole thing is a wrong thing to be doing with a horse?
		
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Im not a big fan of high class competition.  Mostly because it takes a lot out of a horse, both mentally and physically.  Its a demanding lifestyle, with pretty intensive training.  I think its pretty well known that a lot of competition horse's suffer from stomach ulcers, and some even say that 100% of racehorse's have them.  Not to mention stable vices such as cribbing and weaving(mostly racehorses).  It can also be a very stressful lifestyle, not just with the amount of training involved, but also the travelling too.  Lots of time spent in a horsebox, going to new places, even being in aircrafts too.  

I just think its a very hectic lifestyle for these horse's, obviously a lot of people dont have a problem with intensive training or travelling a horse around the world to compete, but i do.  Hence why i dont support top class competition.

If there was more regulations about tack, especially for young riders, maybe i wouldnt have as big an issue.  But unfortunately people can just ride in whichever bit (or gadget) they want, and nobody goes to check to make sure they can actually ride well with this piece of kit.  
What bothers me most is children who ride in spurs and whatever bit they want.  There is a picture in H&H recently with a child riding in a long shanked bit, possibly american gag, which i think is wrong because someone at her age might not be a good enough rider for such a bit.


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## ajn1610 (2 May 2011)

Jennyharvey said:



			Im not a big fan of high class competition.  Mostly because it takes a lot out of a horse, both mentally and physically.  Its a demanding lifestyle, with pretty intensive training.  I think its pretty well known that a lot of competition horse's suffer from stomach ulcers, and some even say that 100% of racehorse's have them.  Not to mention stable vices such as cribbing and weaving(mostly racehorses).  It can also be a very stressful lifestyle, not just with the amount of training involved, but also the travelling too.  Lots of time spent in a horsebox, going to new places, even being in aircrafts too.  

I just think its a very hectic lifestyle for these horse's, obviously a lot of people dont have a problem with intensive training or travelling a horse around the world to compete, but i do.  Hence why i dont support top class competition.

If there was more regulations about tack, especially for young riders, maybe i wouldnt have as big an issue.  But unfortunately people can just ride in whichever bit (or gadget) they want, and nobody goes to check to make sure they can actually ride well with this piece of kit.  
What bothers me most is children who ride in spurs and whatever bit they want.  There is a picture in H&H recently with a child riding in a long shanked bit, possibly american gag, which i think is wrong because someone at her age might not be a good enough rider for such a bit.
		
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Actually there is a lot of regulation about tack for affiliated competition, and tack is regularly checked by stewards. I see more dodgy 'gadget' type bits at Unaffiliated, and let's face it even a plain bit can be fairly brutal in the wrong hands. I don't think you can make a judgement about the ability of the rider based purely on the age and a photograph.

As for the Ulcers/Stereotypic behaviours IMO that is related to poor feeding/weaning practices rather than a 'hectic' lifestyle, the high starch grain based diets have fallen out of favour in most disciplines now for exactly those reasons.  

I can't speak for other disciplines but my background is in Eventing and the 4* horses I've cared for have only run two possibly three times a year at big events and probably the same number of 'training events' so they aren't really travelling/competing that much. I don't think 6 weekends out of 52 can be considered that intense even if they are travelling to get to events. 

There are some horses who wouldn't deal with high level competition but equally there are those that thrive on it. Remember that you only see them at their most keyed up during their rounds, they are quite happy and chilled around the stabling for the rest of the competition and if you attend major events you'll see them happily hand grazing in the morning and evening. You just need to look at how long horses last at the top level now to realise the quality of care and careful management they recieve. Obviously some horses are unlucky and pick up injuries and the more challenging the level of competition the greater the risk but if it was taking a massive toll on them just to complete you wouldn't get so many in the late teens still sound and happily competing.


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## blueneonrainbow (7 May 2011)

I also think that saying:
'unless your opinion is complimentary of the rider you are commenting, you are not in fact allowed your own opinion.' blueneonerainbow, is a bit daft, as you are stating your opinion, if you don't like the fact that someone disgrees with you, you are saying they are not entitled to theirs! Just because someone enters into robust debate with you does not mean they are not allowing your opinion.
		
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If you read the rest of my post, you'd see I was referring to the number of people who specifically said on both Badminton threads that other people didnt know what they were talking about because "we haven't seen you riding Badminton". I was simply posting an observation on the number of people who didnt like others opinions and were trying to stamp them down with a completely ridiculous argument.


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## falaise (7 May 2011)

skewbald_again said:



			oh believe me, they have. There's a whole nother thread telling Mark Todd what he should have done!
		
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

"Mark Todd, record breaking winner of his umpteenth Badminton, takes advice from H&H sofa-dwelling forumers" 

Tee hee hee


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## 1stclassalan (8 May 2011)

falaise said:



			Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

"Mark Todd, record breaking winner of his umpteenth Badminton, takes advice from H&H sofa-dwelling forumers" 

Tee hee hee 

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Ah but I think that comes under the heading of :- one doesn't need to able to make a table to know whether one is suitable to sit at and eat one's dinner from.

Our Mr Todd et al may very well be god's gifts to equestrianism - but it's their public that will decide how far they want to go along with what they do.


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## tristar (8 May 2011)

well said 1stclassalan.

we are not offering advice we are talking here about whether or not it is possible to ride badminton without needing to use excessive force, and what amount of whip use is needed and most importantly when it is applied and why, hitting a horse who has stopped because he is wrong, or hitting a tired or less than keen horse to execute a jump that it may have half decided not to jump out of its own common sense, is really the issue,


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## falaise (8 May 2011)

Oh for goodness sake it was a joke. 

A lot of people take these forums far too seriously. They are not fun to read or comment on, and apparently ANY comment made will be treated with disdain by someone or other! Tis a shame really.


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