# 7 year old girl killed



## Taboo1968 (27 December 2007)

Girl, 7, in fatal quad bike crash  
 The girl was taken to hospital where she died from her injuries 
A seven-year-old girl died after her quad bike was involved in a head-on collision with a Range Rover in Essex. 
The crash occurred in Fingrith Hall Lane, just outside the village of Blackmore, on Wednesday evening. 
Elizabeth Cooke, of Spriggs Lane, Blackmore, was taken to Chelmsford's Broomfield Hospital where she died. 
A woman, 28, who was driving the Range Rover, was arrested on suspicion of causing death by careless driving while unfit through drink or drugs. 
The woman, from the Brentwood area, has been bailed until New Year's Eve. 
'Dangerous wherever used' 
Anyone who witnessed the crash between the red Shark quad bike and the red Range Rover, which occurred at about 1900 GMT, is asked to contact Essex Police. 
Some manufacturers make smaller quad bikes with automatic transmissions for children. It is illegal to ride such machines on public roads without a licence and insurance. 
Some junior quad bikes are capable of speeds of up to 40mph (64km/h). 
A spokesman for road safety charity Brake said: "Even with permission to use the machines on private land, children should not be put in control of them - the sheer power and speed of them is dangerous wherever they are used." 


Can I just ask  -  What was a 7 year old child doing on a public road????  I know the driver of the range rover had been drinking, but it still does not explain what a 7 yr old was doing on a quad bike on a public road!!!


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## Moggy in Manolos (27 December 2007)

how sad for the family, i agree what on earth was she doing on the road, or more to the point who let her, i know the parents must be suffering but why was a 7yr old doing this, very very sad indeed


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## foraday (27 December 2007)

On the Anglia news it was a small country road and the father of the 2 children on the quad bikes was driving a car in front of the quads that did not have lights on.

I am sorry that she has died but surely to goodness what is a 7 year old doing in the dark driving a dangerous vehicle on a public road.

Yes the other driver had been possibly drinking but would you be able to spot a quad without any lights in the dark sober?


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## skewbaldpony (27 December 2007)

road or no road, quads are dangerous, powerful bits of kit, yes even the 'kids' ones.
Madness. Feel sorry for the parents, but what a thoroughly daft thing to do.
No pity for the stupid ***** who was driving under the influence. Throw away the key. Or at least her driving licence. For ever.


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## Thistle (27 December 2007)

That is very sad, must be just outside Norton Heath.

My neighbours 5 year old son was whizzing around on an electric motorbike in our village yesterday, they couldn't see why it could be a problem!


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## Baggybreeches (27 December 2007)

That was actually my first thought aswell! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




I am not excusing the driver of the Range Rover, but will the parents of the dead child be prosecuted as well. Two wrongs do not make a right, but both parties were breaking the law and an innocent child has lost a life. I hope all parties concerned are able to live with their guilt and neglect for many years.


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## Taboo1968 (27 December 2007)

I still dont get it!!! Who in their right mind allows a 7 yr old child out on a public road on a quad bike?

I certainly dont condone the range rovers drivers actions by drink driving but as someone else has pointed out, how can you see a quad bike with no lights!!!!!


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## Baggybreeches (27 December 2007)

I will probably get slaughtered for this but, the kind of arsehole who buys a quadbike for their kids is not somebody in their right mind!


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## Maesfen (27 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I will probably get slaughtered for this but, the kind of arsehole who buys a quadbike for their kids is not somebody in their right mind! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree with you so we'll go together eh! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Will be interested in how old the parents are too, they obviously have the sense of an ant IMO.  Very sad about the little girl but I hope they get done for letting her on a public road even if it's only as a warning to other parents; almost better would be a lower age limit for quad drivers which I wouldn't put any lower than 15 anyway.


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## henryhorn (27 December 2007)

Sometimes I wonder if these people have any brains at all.. 
Reading the report I had to read it again, I couldn't believe anyone would be that stupid.
Although I am sorry for the parents, they surely must realise this is their own fault regardless of the other driver. A 7 year old on a public road in the dark? madness.


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## Emma27 (28 December 2007)

That would be me!!! I have just bought my kids a quad for their Christmas for use at the farm, NOT on public roads! I am NOT an ar*****le for your information.I find that comment hugely offending and presumptious. My kids ride the quad in a small flat field wearing correctly fitted helmets, proper quad gloves and goggles and to top it off they wear hi- viz vests so i can easily keep an eye on them at all times. They also have a strap that pulls the key out and stops the quad if the should fall off AND it has a remote control that will cut it off at the touch of a button!! so please don`t presume to say that any parent who buys their kids a quad is irresponsible. 
My kids are 6 &amp; 7years old BTW

I suppose i should have bought them a Nintendo Wii so that they can stay inside where it is safe??


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## Skhosu (28 December 2007)

tbh, I think any parent buying their kid a quad is mental. they will soon get bored and try more high class manouvers, when it flips, sure the engine may stop as it crushes them, are your reactions fast enough?
It could just land on their leg and break an ankle, or it could well land on their chest. All depends.
Quads were invented for farmers to use to check livestock etc. Sensible use, why do kids need them?


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## Emma27 (28 December 2007)

So are you saying kids shouldn`t ride ponies or take any risks either? I mean OMG they could fall off or something! 

Just to add my kids are sensible and i repeat they are only allowed in a small flat field, the quad is turned right down to a speed which is just above a crawl ATM, when i feel they have got the hang of it it will be turned up a little but not enough to perform manouvers, as you put it.

The parents of the 7 yr old that was killed should be ashamed of themselves for allowing a small child on a public road and in the dark FGS!


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## brighteyes (28 December 2007)

My OH reckons I'm mad letting the kids ride ponies  
	
	
		
		
	


	












  I know it's off topic a bit, but kids/dangerous situations.....  I'm not sure I see much difference (not talking about the public road issue here) and then again, mine do hack out on ponies on the road.  Oh dear.


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## Skhosu (28 December 2007)

Quads are notorious for being dangerous and they do exactly as the kids tell them, and the kids push and push them, and if they land on them, which quads are prone to, it is so deadly. 
Guess I'm biased as dad sees all the people including children coming in with leg injuries from quad riding, riding is a dangerous sport appreciably and not sure why but kids on quads just seems so unnecessary to me.


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## LizzieJ (28 December 2007)

I think these little ones for small kids have speed limiters on them - certainly the one that my neighbours kid rides on their farm barely goes above walking speed and he can't make it go any quicker


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## antiantianti (28 December 2007)

It does seem a bit mad to let kids on the road on a quad bike.  However my kids ride and cycle on the road which I guess is just as dangerous if a pissed up nutter careers round the corner in a range rover.


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## foraday (28 December 2007)

News Update-Anglia News 06:40am

Range Rover Driver released without charge so no driving under the influence-she was sober!

So this is just an accident that SHOULD not have happened!

What was the parent thinking of taking his children out on a PUBLIC road in the DARK!  Part of me feels sorry for them but in the cold light of day they are stupid and that poor range rover driver-she has to live with this for the rest of her life!


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## Ferdinase514 (28 December 2007)

Very sad. Got an email from a friend who knew the little girl from PC.

Imagine she was out with parents trying it out. Cant imagine she was whizzing round the village on her own


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## Taboo1968 (28 December 2007)

I was just about to post and say "we cannot state about the driver being drunk until charges have been made"  so I for one am rather pleased that the driver was in fact sober.... which now brings us back to the point of "what were children doing on a quad bike, in the dark, without lights, on a public road"  It has been stated on BBC News that to take a quad bike onto a public road it has to have  a LICENSE and INSURANCE.... Who is at fault now?


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## Taboo1968 (28 December 2007)

They will see its a problem when their child gets hit by a car!!  Sheer stupidity!


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## Stoxx (28 December 2007)

Yes it is very sad and I'm sure her parents will have to live with the guilt for the rest of their lives, as to put it bluntly it is completely and utterly their fault that their daughter is now dead.
I don't think this particular issue is anything to do with the speed of quads or in fact children using them.  But more to the irresponsible parents who let their young children 'try out' their quads whilst it was pitch black on narrow roads whilst they themselves sat in the safe and indeed 'lit up' comfort of their car.
If anyone knows the area then I'm sure they will appreciate how narrow that road is and in the dark you would indeed 'swerve' around a car, therefore if there was something unmarked and unlit behind a car there is every chance it would get hit.  My thoughts are with the driver who will be haunted by this for the rest of her life.
It's like letting your children hack out in the pitch black on their ponies.  It just wouldn't happen.


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## Taboo1968 (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
It's like letting your children hack out in the pitch black on their ponies. It just wouldn't happen. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless of course you shared the mentality of the above mentioned parents!!!

They of course will live with this for the rest of their lives and nothing will ever clear their conscience....


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## PaddyMonty (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I will probably get slaughtered for this but, the kind of arsehole who buys a quadbike for their kids is not somebody in their right mind! 

[/ QUOTE ]
Guess that makes me an idiotic arsehole then  
	
	
		
		
	


	




My son first started riding quads when he was 9.  We both go to a quad centre and blast around the track for an hour. His quad was (and still is) speed limited.  Unfortuneately the same can not be said for daughters pony.  I remember vividly the week I spent with her in hospital while her arm was put back together after comming off her pony.
Now if i allowed my son on a public road on a quad then i would agree with you.  Perhaps I should restrict my daughters riding to the school with the pony hobbled to limit its speed? I know which activity is far more dangerous!


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## Taboo1968 (28 December 2007)

Ah but would you allow your child to hack out in the dark, with no lights or reflectives on?  

I wouldn't say hthat buying a quad for your child equals you to an arsehole.... many people buy their kids motorised things, but they are mostly quite sensible and dont allow the child out in the dark on a public road....
I would think you fall into that category Timefaulter???  As you have said you go to a quad centre..... where presumably such an activity is supervised?


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## PaddyMonty (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Ah but would you allow your child to hack out in the dark, with no lights or reflectives on?  


[/ QUOTE ]
Certainly not.  But i did say i wouldn't allow my son out on the road (no matter how quiet) on a quad.  I was reacting to the OP who stated anyone who bought their child a quad was a brainless arsehole which i really dont think i am.  Well not brainless anyway  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I worry far more about my daughter riding her pony than i do about my son on a quad.  As I do both I certainly appreciate which is potentially more dangerous even in controlled situations.


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## Taboo1968 (28 December 2007)

lol!!!

as in all walks of life regardless of which activity is being participated in, there are good people and there are bad people!


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## skewbaldpony (28 December 2007)

It's undoubtedly the parents' fault - letting the child on the road at all, never mind in the dark. It could have happened in the light as well though, people drive WAY too fast on country lanes, and that's something that should be stopped, imo.
However, obviously, a 7 year old should not be on the road at all on a quad, and frankly, I think a lead rein would be in order on a pony, but maybe I'm just cautious in that respect. We have a lot of idiot drivers around here.
Half the trouble (oh I am going to get shot here) is that so many chavvy parents will not accept their limitations! It may be unfair, but the fact that a pp has access to a nice, flat field for their kids to ride around in, makes it safe.
The world is not fair. If you don't have access to a safe place and the right knowledge and experience, whether for a quad or a pony, you shouldn't indulge your children. 
I am as poor as a church mouse, so it isn't a money thing, but I am a qualified instructor and first aider, a groom with donkeys years experience, and married to an underpaid but very practical farm worker, who happens to get a house in a safe place, a couple of fields, and a stable yard as part of the deal. So it is safe for my children to have ponies, both rescued, btw, so no big investment there, either.  Oh did I say one of our friends is a farrier ?! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




I don't know if this is the case with this poor kid, but I do see a lot of families, who indulge their children in everything from quads to ponies, without the resources, knowledge, or plain common sense required to keep them safe and happy.
And don't get me started on dogs! 
As to the driver of the Range Rover, we now know she was not over the limit (a limit which should imo be a big fat ZERO) and within the law, but she could still have been doing 60 down a country lane, as so many people do, without breaking the law. Maybe she wasn't, in which case, poor woman. But speed kills. Usually someone else.


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## Taboo1968 (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Half the trouble (oh I am going to get shot here) is that so many chavvy parents will not accept their limitations! 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad someone else said that, although do admit the thought was there on my part!


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## Thistle (28 December 2007)

Well said, the skewbald


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## meandmyself (28 December 2007)

So sad for the family


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## Orangehorse (28 December 2007)

I wouldn't buy a quad bike for children unless it was one of the "walking pace" ones and always under adult supervision.

Two children were riding their bikes on their own land and the one ran over the other accidentally and killed it. 
Then there was the boy whose scarf got wound round the wheel and it broke his neck.  That isn't counting the overturning, the rolling over, etc.


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## WishfulThinker (28 December 2007)

My dad says it is natural selection and to let them get on with it (he doesnt do pc).  Darwin theory!

If you ever watch the film Idiocracy you will soon agree to some degree. 

Bu either way - chavvy or not - it was stupid, and a child of 7 should not be out on a road in the dark full stop - not on rollerskates/skateboard/scooter/bike/pony/quad.


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## the watcher (28 December 2007)

I do hope for your father's sake that nothing awful ever happens to somebody he cares about - it is very easy to say these things when your life hasn't been touched by freak accidents or other disasters.
Sadly over the years i have seen too many innocent victims of accidents who truely had done nothing to contribute to their demise

In this case though it does sound as though the parents had been monumentally stupid


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## martyna (28 December 2007)

said  on  news  that  lady  driving  rangerovers  drink  test came  back  negative.  so  give her  a  break ..sure she feels bad  enough  ,  how  many  of  you  would  be expecting  a  7  yr  old  child  on  a  quad  on  a  public  road  with  no  lights  to  come  round  the  corner  ?  not  me .  vv  sad  but  a  tragic  accident  .


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## skewbaldpony (28 December 2007)

absolutely,  but you can drive too fast sober as well, you know.
I agree 101% the kid should not have been there. I don't know the road, but I know the tiny lane where I live, and I would prefer it if people drove slowly enought to avoid a cat, a loose calf, or other unexpected hazard, perhaps even a child with totally irresponsible/stupid parents. Though I agree, in the dark, that could still be a tough call.
The 'unrestricted' speed sign does not obligate us to drive at 60mph. In my opinion, where two cars cannot pass, the speed limit should be 20mph, and if you are in more of a hurry than that, go live somewhere with a bigger road.


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## WishfulThinker (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I do hope for your father's sake that nothing awful ever happens to somebody he cares about - it is very easy to say these things when your life hasn't been touched by freak accidents or other disasters.
Sadly over the years i have seen too many innocent victims of accidents who truely had done nothing to contribute to their demise

In this case though it does sound as though the parents had been monumentally stupid 

[/ QUOTE ]

He says it in reference to what some would call - chavvs, the ones who if they were animals would not survive nor breed and continue to fill the world full of increasingly dim and dimmer people.  

These people in THIS instance DID contribute to their won demise.


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## spaniel (28 December 2007)

Whilst I feel very sad that a child has died I cannot in any way understand the parents of this little girl.  There is NO excuse for allowing ANY child under 16 onto the road with ANYTHING motorised....its illegal.  Anyone who buys one of these quads will have had it pinted out to them that they would be breaking the law by using it on the road if under 16.  This wasnt a walking pace quad either but a powerful and costly motor vehicle.

Would any of you hand over your car keys to a 7 year old and let them get on with it?

I feel dreadful for the woman driving the RR,  she will live with this for the rest of her life.


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## the watcher (28 December 2007)

If we were all dumb animals Chavs would survive, they would hunt in packs. In the jungle superior intellect counts for very little.

Nothing will bring that child back, no amount of criticism, or blame. She certainly wasn't old enough to make informed decisions about what was safe.


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## WishfulThinker (28 December 2007)

Nope,  which is why I wholeheartedly blame the parents, not only for her ceath but for the suffering of the poor woman in the car that hit her - she also has to live with that all her life!  SHE gets my sympathy, the girls brother gets my sympathy.  the parents, I feel sorry for their loss but it is self inflicted so sympathy is held back.


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## Baggybreeches (28 December 2007)

Replying to my own post so as not to cause offence!
Quad bikes are as lethal as cars, but with far less protection, as someone who grew up in a farming background, I know of a few children and adults killed in accidents regarding quads. 
I am not suggesting that anybody who supervises their children using them in an appropriate place is an arsehole ( I taught my stepdaughter to drive at 12 ON PRIVATE LAND!), but the vast majority of 'nouveau rich' parents dont have the sense they were born with.


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## flyingfeet (28 December 2007)

Actually I think the fact it was a quad is irrelevant here. Whether on a bike, pony or quad, at 7pm in pitch black she'd have been killed either way. 

I agree quads are dangerous, but so are ponies, roads, skate boards, steps, hay bales etc etc

However if you don't have somewhere to ride them (i.e. land that you own or are allowed on), I cannot see the point in buying them.


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## skewbaldpony (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]

However if you don't have somewhere to ride them (i.e. land that you own or are allowed on), I cannot see the point in buying them. 

[/ QUOTE ]

That was kind of my point, CotswoldSJ - people seem to overlook the fact that they are not equipped (in any sense of the word) to deal with these things. It would be like me deciding to buy my children all the kit for water skiing or something. What's the point? Just to outdo the neighbours most of the time.


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## Governor (28 December 2007)

The accident happened no more than a mile from me. The roads round here are dangerous light or dark (in particular the one I live on which has been littered with cars in ditches every winter) and the biggest mistake of most drivers is assuming they know the road - and assuming that they'll always be as quiet as they normally are. I'm sure anyone who has arrived at Norton Heath from the village end (as opposed to the A414) will know what I mean.

Its tragic but I think its very difficult to lay blame on one person in particular - i'd imagine the driver made the mistake of thinking they know the road and probably driving slightly too fast and the parents fault for letting the children on the road, on their quads (illegally) in the dark.

Personally on a large farm with numerous acres and the whole of Boxing day (albeit i'm told Elizabeth had been out with the hunt in the morning and stayed with the field until 4pm approx) I can't understand why the kids weren't trying out their christmas presents on their premisis but i'm guessing they wanted to show their friend/neighbour their presents which is just unfortunate.


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## skewbaldpony (28 December 2007)

I'm sorry, I don't fiind it 'just unfortunate' that a child was on a public highway in the dark on an unlicensed vehicle without lights. I really don't. Especially if as you say they had private land on which to play with it.


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## antiantianti (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 In the jungle superior intellect counts for very little.

[/ QUOTE ]

Having such large and clever brains comes at a huge cost.  They have definitely helped us survive and become a dominant species.


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## antiantianti (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I agree quads are dangerous, but so are ponies, roads, skate boards, steps, hay bales etc etc

[/ QUOTE ]

However IMO the other side of the coin is that letting children take risks helps them develop.


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## Baggybreeches (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]

However IMO the other side of the coin is that letting children take risks helps them develop. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I quite agree, but surely BREAKING THE LAW is not a risk worth taking?
A child trusts that an adult has enough judgement and common sense not to endanger their life, this is not a case of taking risks, it is breaking the law and they have paid the ultimate sacrifice for their stupidity/madness.


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## skewbaldpony (28 December 2007)

risk taking has to be assessed. How likely is it that the risk will happen, and what is the severity of the hazard if it does?
Riding accident? Likelihood governed to some extent by experience and ability of rider/ superivising parent, and to a large extent by the circumstances (eg enclosed ring or A road). Child on suitable pony in a safe space, maybe the likelihood is a 4. Hazard, taking 1 as a broken fingernail and 10 as death, is probably also a 4. I'm going to risk a 4/4 for the sake of my ten year old's personal development.
Child on quad bike, no lights on public road? That's at least 8/10. That's got to be up there with serving in Iraq. Not a sensible risk to take.
Do I think like this all the time? Yes, to be honest, for making decisions like this, I do. Call me boring!


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## ReadyTeddy (28 December 2007)

you are so right. and that driver will have to live with herself forever even if she was not at fault. you have to feel sorry for her not just the parents.


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## antiantianti (28 December 2007)

I do think that there is a tendency to pounce on people when they take risks and things go wrong.  The Mccann saga is a classic case.


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## skewbaldpony (28 December 2007)

Don't lets get started on that one. I knew someone would say, oh those poor parents, they have paid the ultimate price, a la McCann.
No. they haven't. The kid has. Again.


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## Baggybreeches (28 December 2007)

NOt pouncing on people, but the woman driving the Range Rover, will have to live the rest of her life with the shadow of the girls death hanging over her, in the dark on a country road a child on a mini quad is no more visible than a dog or a deer.
The facts are that the quad were not road registered and as such did not require lights etc, it is an inexcusable risk to put childrens lives in danger in such a way. 
As kids we used to cycle over to relatives quite some way away, if there was any risk of us not making it back in time our bikes were left there and we were driven home.


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## antiantianti (28 December 2007)

mmm well I don't really see it as paying a price.  I'm not justifying what the parents did and they clearly shouldn't have let them drive on the road.  However at the end of the day it was an accident.  We all take risks and if nothing happens no one thinks the worse of us.

Extremely risk averse parents damage their children as well IMO.

ps I was driving my dad's car on the lane age 9.


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## hotellie (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 i'd imagine the driver made the mistake of thinking they know the road and probably driving slightly too fast 


[/ QUOTE ]

 i think even if the driver was driving reasonably slowly(which she may have been) the girl would have dies as she was only seven so small and it was a big car a range rover. and the woman had no hope of seeing her really!


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## joshesmum (28 December 2007)

My OH has a quad its fully road legal and my 11 year old son is always asking if he can go on the back of it with his dad but i wont allow it,so allowing a 7 year old to ride on the road is totally beyond belief some parents dont deseve to have kids.


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## lilym (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
That would be me!!! I have just bought my kids a quad for their Christmas for use at the farm, NOT on public roads! I am NOT an ar*****le for your information.I find that comment hugely offending and presumptious. My kids ride the quad in a small flat field wearing correctly fitted helmets, proper quad gloves and goggles and to top it off they wear hi- viz vests so i can easily keep an eye on them at all times. They also have a strap that pulls the key out and stops the quad if the should fall off AND it has a remote control that will cut it off at the touch of a button!! so please don`t presume to say that any parent who buys their kids a quad is irresponsible. 
My kids are 6 &amp; 7years old BTW

I suppose i should have bought them a Nintendo Wii so that they can stay inside where it is safe??















[/ QUOTE ]

i have to say i agree with you SM, your children will learn to respect the quad, and i bet it's not a full size adult jobbie?! people think nothing of overhorsing their kids, yet say a quad is irresponsible 
	
	
		
		
	


	












my little cousin started riding trail moto cross bikes at the age of 7, he is got to be one of the top junior riders in the country - so were my aunt and uncle irresponsible a*seholes then??? sure he took a few tumbles, but did no more damage then falling off a push bike, he was not allowed near a public road until he passed his bike test at 17!
i do think the parents in question were out of their minds to let a small child on the road on a quad, in fact TBH i have issues with young children riding push bikes on roads when it is obvious they are not in control of it.......
quads should only be bought for children if you have suitable private land for them to ride on safetley - which you do - so much better for them to be out in the air than stuck in front of a ruddy computer, risking death by heart attack before 40 
	
	
		
		
	


	








 they are children for god sake not porcelaine dolls....


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## Baggybreeches (28 December 2007)

Yes, but the fact remains they were breaking the law!!!
FYI my cousins are/were both grass track and dirt track riders, but the people who participate in a sport have a deeper understanding of the consequences.


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## alleycat (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
  some parents dont deseve to have kids. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Under these circumstances that is a really unpleasant thingto say.

I suppose this was a double error of judgement, wasn't it; parents and driver; both perhaps knowing the road and thinking it was home, it was safe. 

Despite all the condemnation. as a parent (and relatively careful one, I think) in the end it really is a matter of "there but for the grace of God"; I can think of a dozen times when my daughter could have been hurt or even killed had something gone a bit wrong- and I think thats true of any honest parent. I suspect anyone who feels otherwise is either overprotective or has no imagination.


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## Horseymum (28 December 2007)

It would appear that the truth is now coming out over what actually happened.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/ar...in_page_id=1770


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## antiantianti (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]


I suppose i should have bought them a Nintendo Wii so that they can stay inside where it is safe??


[/ QUOTE ]

A wii is not entirely safe either.  There have been some nasty accidents with the two player boxing game.


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## antiantianti (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
It would appear that the truth is now coming out over what actually happened.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/ar...in_page_id=1770 

[/ QUOTE ]

Does the Daily Mail ever print the truth?


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## joshesmum (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
  some parents dont deseve to have kids. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Under these circumstances that is a really unpleasant thingto say.

I suppose this was a double error of judgement, wasn't it; parents and driver; both perhaps knowing the road and thinking it was home, it was safe. 

Despite all the condemnation. as a parent (and relatively careful one, I think) in the end it really is a matter of "there but for the grace of God"; I can think of a dozen times when my daughter could have been hurt or even killed had something gone a bit wrong- and I think thats true of any honest parent. I suspect anyone who feels otherwise is either overprotective or has no imagination. 

[/ QUOTE ]


Im sorry but i dont think what ive said is unpleasant at all  the law states that they shouldnt of been riding on the road allbeit a country lane or whatever.Im a parent myself and its not a case of being overprotective or having no imagination but using a bit of common sense. There is no such thing as a safe road no matter how close to home it is or where it is,its not only the child thats lost her life to the parents stupidity but the poor driver who has to live with the little girls death for the rest of her life,its a death that could so easily of been prevented.


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## skewbaldpony (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It would appear that the truth is now coming out over what actually happened.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/ar...in_page_id=1770 

[/ QUOTE ]

Does the Daily Mail ever print the truth? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I should say the juxtaposition of 'the truth coming out' and 'the Daily Mail' has to have some kind of ironic intent.


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## Baggybreeches (28 December 2007)

My thoughts entirely.


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## Rachel_M (28 December 2007)

QR

I feel sorry for anyone who has lost a child, no matter the circumstances but, knowing full well what a dangerous and <u>illegal</u> activity this was for children, I do feel that the parents should be brought to justice for this.

It is a terrible loss to lose a child but it does not mean that they are above the law. They <u>knowingly</u> broke the law and allowed their children to ride those vehicles on the roads.

It was the parents responsibility to oversee the safety, and well being, of the children. In this, they failed.

We are all capable of making mistakes, for this I am aware, but there comes a line where you can not just sweep something under the carpet, as a mistake, but have to take the responsibility for the actions.

I feel desperately sorry for the lady driver. She will, due to being at the wheel of the vehicle that ultimately caused the death of a child (whether or not it was her fault), remember this for the rest of her life.

The child's life was cut short, not be the women who hit her, but by the parents utter lack of common sense.


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## alleycat (28 December 2007)

joshesmum, if you can make a comment as crass as that and think that its not unpleasant at all- 

I don't know how old your kids are (mine has reached 17 , so I must be doing something right) but I'm guessing yours are young or still at home. Next time one is hurt or injured or has a near miss through some accident that could have been prevented, as happens in most peoples lives at some time, try your remark on for size and see how you would feel if your kid had actually died through some  over-confidence or misjudgement of your own.


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## joshesmum (28 December 2007)

Im not stupid enough to allow my kids to ride on the road one is 7 and one is 11 the laws are there for a reason these parents broke the law and their poor daughter has paid the price end of.


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## joshesmum (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
QR

I feel sorry for anyone who has lost a child, no matter the circumstances but, knowing full well what a dangerous and <u>illegal</u> activity this was for children, I do feel that the parents should be brought to justice for this.

It is a terrible loss to lose a child but it does not mean that they are above the law. They <u>knowingly</u> broke the law and allowed their children to ride those vehicles on the roads.

It was the parents responsibility to oversee the safety, and well being, of the children. In this, they failed.

We are all capable of making mistakes, for this I am aware, but there comes a line where you can not just sweep something under the carpet, as a mistake, but have to take the responsibility for the actions.

I feel desperately sorry for the lady driver. She will, due to being at the wheel of the vehicle that ultimately caused the death of a child (whether or not it was her fault), remember this for the rest of her life.

The child's life was cut short, not be the women who hit her, but by the parents utter lack of common sense. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree totally


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## Stella (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
mmm well I don't really see it as paying a price.  I'm not justifying what the parents did and they clearly shouldn't have let them drive on the road.  However at the end of the day it was an accident.  We all take risks and if nothing happens no one thinks the worse of us.

Extremely risk averse parents damage their children as well IMO.

ps I was driving my dad's car on the lane age 9.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ] I would venture a guess that you don't have children yet? Sensible parents just don't take crazy risks like letting their child drive a motorised vehicle without lights on a dark road. Like someone above said, sensible parents take calculated risks. They don't try to eliminate all risk, instead they introduce some risky, but character building activity with some safety measures. e.g. riding, but picking a sensible pony for the novice child, having them wear a hat and not ride on the road in the dark!


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## skewbaldpony (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
joshesmum, if you can make a comment as crass as that and think that its not unpleasant at all- 

I don't know how old your kids are (mine has reached 17 , so I must be doing something right) but I'm guessing yours are young or still at home. Next time one is hurt or injured or has a near miss through some accident that could have been prevented, as happens in most peoples lives at some time, try your remark on for size and see how you would feel if your kid had actually died through some  over-confidence or misjudgement of your own. 

[/ QUOTE ]

No!!!!!!!!!
It's McCann syndrome. Everyone you spoke to was chanting 'We've all done it' because it said so in the media. When asked what it was we'd all done, they came out with something like 'turned my back on my toddler for 30 seconds in the garden, see, it could have happened to him...' NO IT COULDN'T ! That is not the same as leaving three toddlers unattended in a strange place and going out on the raz!
Just as the normal, run of the mill risks that children take, and their parents allow them to, like riding their bikes in daylight, or having a riding lesson ARE NOT THE SAME as allowing them on the road, in the dark, in a powerful vehicle ILLEGALLY.
God forbid that anything awful should happen to joshesmum's children, or anyone else's, but there is a difference between accident and negligence, indeed criminal negligence, and the tears and flowers brigade seem to lose the distinction.


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## antiantianti (28 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 I would venture a guess that you don't have children yet? Sensible parents just don't take crazy risks like letting their child drive a motorised vehicle without lights on a dark road. Like someone above said, sensible parents take calculated risks. They don't try to eliminate all risk, instead they introduce some risky, but character building activity with some safety measures. e.g. riding, but picking a sensible pony for the novice child, having them wear a hat and not ride on the road in the dark! 

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got three kids actually.  

I haven't said that it's ok to let a kid drive a motorised vehicle in the dark.  In fact what you are saying has pretty much echoed what I have said.


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## pocomoto (28 December 2007)

So tragic yet so Avoidable! What on earth were they thinking?  They and the driver will have to live with it for the rest of their lives!!

Have had similar problems locally with those stupid little kids motor cycles and idiots buying them and letting children ride them on the roads!   A close may be quiet but it's still a road!!   

It all stopped suddenly when the local Police began confiscating them for no tax and insurance, they picked other expensive presents for their kids this year, a WII is much safer!!!


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## hotellie (28 December 2007)

the skewbald you talk a lot of sense


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## Emma27 (28 December 2007)

Thank you very much Chilliem, you obviously know what you are talking about.


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## Sooty (28 December 2007)

Unbelievable. I cannot begin to think what part of buying a quad bike for a child, then letting said child ride it on a public road in the dark, these parents thought was a good idea. Adults have enough trouble with these things (the almost fatal accidents of Rik Mayall and Ozzy Osbourne being two examples) let alone kids. They are not the same as ponies or bicycles; they are unstable and flip easily on uneven ground. When you think how criticised (rightly) the McCanns were for leaving their children alone and unsupervised, their action pales into insignificance next to the stupidity and negligence of these parents. I hope the police throw the book at them - that poor little girl, what a way to die.


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## aimeerose (28 December 2007)

What i find alarming is the parents took her home and not straight to hospital.
A horrible accident that didnt need to happen.

I was riding quads by 7/8yrs, but always supervised (adult sat behind me) and always in a controlled place (usually a paddock!)
By 10 i was riding solo and allowed to pop out to check sheep etc, but i grew up around them, knew the dangers and was taught to ride them properly,

I have used them extensively working on farms and yards and while being GREAT fun, they are a serious machine, who gives one too a 7 yr old and thinks a trip down the lane, in the dark is a good idea??
Poor kid paid for parents having to much money and not enough sense.


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## Ravenwood (28 December 2007)

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  I know that when my kids were little I followed them in the car when they have taken their bikes (push bikes) or ponies on the road (not in the dark though).   However I have always been right up their backside or they have been practically riding on my back bumper with my hazards on.  I can't understand why the father was driving so far in front that the back passenger had to keep looking behind to see the lights and when the RR passed the fathers car they should have all been in a line to pass together.  

I am certainly not condoning the parents actions of letting the kids on the roads in the first place but I just know how what starts as a good or fun idea can be seen as absolutely stupid in hindsight.


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## Horsey_Gal (29 December 2007)

We always had quad bikes when we were children - i have no objection to it but only on quiet private land.

We cant keep our children locked away inside all day, playing on playstations, watching tv, playing on the pc etc etc. Accidents can happen anywhere - for example, playing hockey or rugby, you could have your teeth knocked out!


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## Rachel_M (29 December 2007)

True but they are not <u>illegal</u>. Whilst quad biking on the road, underage, is.

They were breaking a law, simple. They must be held accountable, as would anyone else breaking the law in this country. 

The law, regarding underage driving on the roads, is there for a reason. I think this is a perfect example why it exists. It is not there to ruin your fun but to _save lives_. If the parents had upheld that law then, ultimately, they would still have their daughter.


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## skewbaldpony (29 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
We always had quad bikes when we were children - i have no objection to it but only on quiet private land.

We cant keep our children locked away inside all day, playing on playstations, watching tv, playing on the pc etc etc. Accidents can happen anywhere - for example, playing hockey or rugby, you could have your teeth knocked out! 

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, that's McCann Syndrome again. No one is saying they should be 'locked away' just within the law, and with a modicum of common sense.
I had my front teeth knocked out by a horse, aged 12, thank you very much, but guess what, I am still here thirty years later, I wasn't best pleased about false teeth as a teenager, but it wasn't fatal!
Risk Assessment isn't complicated. As I said above, with hockey or rugby, there is a minute chance that something really awful might happen, and  a fairish chance that something a bit unpleasant might happen. We knowingly take that risk.
Slightly adjusted risk factor for a well trained child on a speed limited quad on flat private land - some parents here have shown that they have intelligently risk assessed this, and decided to accept the risk. You yourself state re: quad bike riding 'i have no objection to it but only on quiet private land.'

IT IS NOT THE SAME as a seven year old riding a powerful machine illegally on a dark public road. And don't lets allow anyone (e.g. the newspapers) to tell us it is.


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## henryhorn (29 December 2007)

I've come onto this thread again to add my thoughts, after my initial shock that the parents' were so stupid, I now feel sorry for them. 
Can you imagine any punishment however severe will be worse than living with their mistake? 
I can't, so perhaps they don't need anything further said or done, it was obvious they adored their daughter, and made a stupid and devastatingly consequential error.
They need time to grieve now and some sympathy, because nothing could be worse in this world than knowing you are to blame for your own child's death...


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## alleycat (29 December 2007)

As usual, REAL humanity, common sense and a sense of proportion from Henryhorn...


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## the watcher (29 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
What i find alarming is the parents took her home and not straight to hospital.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not party to the PM results nor do I know the cause of death, but the circumstances would suggest internal bleeding - the casualty can appear to be quite normal and even pain free for quite some time after the incident before collapsing with shock and then falling into coma. Only the assistance of a surgical team within a very short time frame of the incident could have saved this little girl, and even if she had been taken straight to hospital it is not certain that this would have made any difference at all, sadly.

In failing to recognise that her injuries were serious in these circumstances, they were lacking in emergency aid knowledge, but no more than the vast majority of people.


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## Weezy (29 December 2007)

I had a mini motocross bike and a quad aged 7.  We used them in the fields and never even entertained the idea of going on the roads...however, as a parent and looking at my 7 year old no way would I let him have one (and now they are more powerful too).

Anyway, I thoughts go out to the driver of the RR - poor woman will live with this for the whole of her life.  Thoughts also to the parents, they will never ever be able to forgive themselves for the Christmas purchase that went horribly wrong 
	
	
		
		
	


	





RIP Lizzie x


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## Shilasdair (29 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
As usual, REAL humanity, common sense and a sense of proportion from Henryhorn... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Asskiss
S


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## Laafet (29 December 2007)

Here here Weezy, thats what I thought too when I read the piece. We used to sell childrens quad bikes and we always told the parents about the fact they were not road legal for adults to ride and children are no allowed under any circumstances to ride them on the road anyway. At 6pm on a winters night, I just can't imagine what the parents were thinking, but then they've got to deal with it now so I guess thats the harsh reality of life.


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## Thistle (29 December 2007)

Don't believe everything you read in the Daily Mail press report. It states that she was airlifted to hospital, Essex air ambulance cannot operate at night, so I wonder who took her, unless of course it was left to the following day but I don't think so.


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## Taboo1968 (29 December 2007)

I dont think anyone is saying we should keep our children locked in...... and yes accident can happen anywhere.... but would you purposely allow your child to ride on a new quad bike, on a public road in the dark????  I dont think so!!!  An accident that could have so easily been avoided....
I'm sorry, but the actions of those parents were irresponsible and because of their lackadasical attitude, they have now made another woman suffer.... as she will have to live with this for the rest of her life!


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## Vicki_Krystal (29 December 2007)

ive read this whole post from start to finish and whilst i agree with the fact the parents were negligent, surely they have paid the ultimate price without being chastised on public forums?
the mc canns also paid the price as did the family that went trick or treating in the dark on their pony.

my point being that people do make mistakes, sometimes fatal ones and the death of a loved one - knowing it was your fault somehow - must be the most painful thing in the world.
im sure all parents involved will think about those days for the rest of their lives.

as for the some people dont deserve children comment - how dare you????? do you know how much the child meant to her family?? they made a tragic mistake but they certainly dont deserve comments like that.


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## Tia (29 December 2007)

QR -

What a dreadful accident - highly traumatising for all concerned and I feel sorry for every one of them who are left living with this horror.  Poor little Lizzie to have her life cut short.


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## Breezesbenefactor (29 December 2007)

Again another tragedy. I'm a little confused as the driver had not been charged with drink/drug abuse but in other reports say different. The other part was the child was deemed to be ok, until she fell ill later. Now if that was the case the driver cannot be charged with the above offence unless she was at the scene which, appears she was not. Either way I cannot see how you can charge somebody with her death if the vehicle was illegal however, I can see how you can charge the parents with negligence, either way very sad for the family but also for the driver who if presumed innocent will be left with this burden because of the stupid actions of the parents, I'll be reserving my pity for now.


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## henryhorn (29 December 2007)

A friend of ours was run over by a neighbour's lorry (deliberately I might add) and he appeared fine when first admitted to hospital, but suddenly deteriorated as his internal bleeding affected him, so they may not have realised how seriously injured the child was.  He died soon after. (the neighbour's house was struck by a massive bolt of lightning the following weekend and burned to the ground, we are sure it was Colin..... 
	
	
		
		
	


	




)


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## the watcher (29 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Again another tragedy. I'm a little confused as the driver had not been charged with drink/drug abuse but in other reports say different. The other part was the child was deemed to be ok, until she fell ill later. Now if that was the case the driver cannot be charged with the above offence unless she was at the scene which, appears she was not. Either way I cannot see how you can charge somebody with her death if the vehicle was illegal however, I can see how you can charge the parents with negligence, either way very sad for the family but also for the driver who if presumed innocent will be left with this burden because of the stupid actions of the parents, I'll be reserving my pity for now. 

[/ QUOTE ]

To clarify the early press reports that said the driver had been arrested on suspicion of drink/driving offences. It is ACPO policy that any driver who has been involved in a fatal accident will be arrested in order to preserve any available evidence - obviously the press will draw certain conclusions from this and conclude that the driver was in fact drunk or under the influence of drugs, when this may not be the case.
If it could be proved that the RR driver had committed offences there are a number of charging options and the later death of the child could be taken into account, particularly if alcohol was a factor, even factoring in the illegal use of a vehicle in the dark.

However it appears that the car driver had not committed any offences and is just an unfortunate victim of circumstances.


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## Breezesbenefactor (29 December 2007)

I'm pleased the RR driver is innocent however, I'm sure this is little consolation to her at the moment. Very sad all the same, you can almost see how this all came about however I think the parents have been given a life long sentence already


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## Taboo1968 (29 December 2007)

ooooh sorry but that did make me giggle - they say what goes around comes around tho!


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## Baggybreeches (29 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
A friend of ours was run over by a neighbour's lorry (deliberately I might add) and he appeared fine when first admitted to hospital, but suddenly deteriorated as his internal bleeding affected him, so they may not have realised how seriously injured the child was.  He died soon after. (the neighbour's house was struck by a massive bolt of lightning the following weekend and burned to the ground, we are sure it was Colin..... 
	
	
		
		
	


	




) 

[/ QUOTE ]
OMG HH remind me not to pee off any of your friends!!!


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## Hollycat (30 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 perhaps they don't need anything further said or done, it was obvious they adored their daughter, and made a stupid and devastatingly consequential error.


[/ QUOTE ] 

Well, thats may be true for some, but to be honest, lots of people do not take responsibility for their actions.  They may well STILL think they did nothing wrong to have this child on the road and blame the car driver. It can be a natural grief reaction to blame someone else when deep down on a subconscious level you know its you.  Some families would sit blameing themselves, but others would sit blameing the car driver.  They wouldn't have had her on the road in the first place if they thought it wrong or dangerous so may well not have changed their attitude - just be angry they met driver A speeding and driving dangerously (in their own minds).  I agree they will always be devestated as anyone does that loses anyone they love for whatever reason, but being devestated and having personal grief does not absolve you from responsibility of harming others through a criminal act just because you are sorry you did it after the event.


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## skewbaldpony (30 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
they have paid the ultimate price 

[/ QUOTE ]

no, sorry I have slept on this, but I still maintain, as I did over The Other Business - THEY have not paid the ultimate price at all. The CHILD has paid the ulitmate price.


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## joshesmum (30 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
ive read this whole post from start to finish and whilst i agree with the fact the parents were negligent, surely they have paid the ultimate price without being chastised on public forums?
the mc canns also paid the price as did the family that went trick or treating in the dark on their pony.

my point being that people do make mistakes, sometimes fatal ones and the death of a loved one - knowing it was your fault somehow - must be the most painful thing in the world.
im sure all parents involved will think about those days for the rest of their lives.

as for the some people dont deserve children comment - how dare you????? do you know how much the child meant to her family?? they made a tragic mistake but they certainly dont deserve comments like that. 

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean how dare you,who do you think you are my mother!?? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Im sure the parents love their children very much im not disputing that.You call the death of this little girl a mistake well im sorry but i see it as a lot more than that.These parents have cut her life short by their sheer stupidity. When we have children we are supposed to protect them not put their lives in danger, as for the comment i made, some people dont deserve children i stand by what i said and the poor lady that hit her has got to live with it for the rest of her life to.This is a childs life we are talking about not a bloody dog that would be a mistake in my eyes, we as parents have to use our common sense sadly there are a few that lack in it.


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## Pedantic (30 December 2007)

7 year old on a qaud bike in the dark illegally, parents responcability, nothing else to say is there, the child has paid the ultimate price, what an unnessary waste.


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## happyhack (31 December 2007)

I feel very sorry for the driver of the other vehicle. 
I cant quite understand the parents thinking that it was ok to put their 7 year old on 40mph quad bike, in the dark, on a public road. 

Very sad


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## Taboo1968 (31 December 2007)

As taken from the BBC News Page

Quad bike death probe continues  

Elizabeth Cooke was taken to hospital where she died  
Police have said they are examining the "culpability of all parties" involved after a seven-year-old girl died following a collision on her quad bike. 
Elizabeth Cooke and her brother Jack, 10, were riding quad bikes behind their father Gary's Range Rover near the family home in Blackmore, Essex. 

Elizabeth died in hospital from internal injuries following the collision on Boxing Day. 

A 28-year-old woman, from the Brentwood area has been arrested over the crash. 

Police said Elizabeth's quad bike was in collision with a Range Rover, driven by a 28-year-old woman from the Brentwood area, shortly after 1800 GMT. 

The crash occurred in Fingrith Hall Lane, just outside the village of Blackmore. 

An Essex Police spokeswoman said officers were continuing to investigate the accident and added: "We are making further inquiries and examining the culpability of all involved parties." 

The 28-year-old woman, who has not been named, could be charged with careless driving. 

A pathologist is carrying a post-mortem examination to establish how Elizabeth died. 

Police said she had been taken home, about half a mile from the crash scene, after the accident. 

Paramedics went to the home after her family called the emergency services to say she was ill.


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## Laafet (31 December 2007)

Just seen a news report on the TV, and they seem to still be pointing all the blame at the lady in the RR, having seen the road in the daylight I would never have considered going along the road at night in anything other than a car. And as for the question over whether they were wearing helmets, if they weren't then why, she was rider and obviously they would never have considered her going out without a hat, but then they probably wouldn't have let her out on her pony at night following behind a car either.


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## cloppy (31 December 2007)

this should be a murder case and not the woman driving the range rover.


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## the watcher (31 December 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Just seen a news report on the TV, and they seem to still be pointing all the blame at the lady in the RR, . 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if you follow the letter of the Highway Code, you should always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear, so if the little girl was in her path, even on a poorly lit illegal vehicle it could be argued that the RR driver should have avoided her. So it is quite correct that the Police should still be investigating a potential offence of careless driving.

To balance that, think how far you can see on your dipped beam headlights, not very - in fact you probably rely on other clues to tell you that it is safe to continue such as other lighting, other vehicles and their speed and position. If we all drove to a speed limited by the extent of dipped beams the whole country would slow down overnight.

I wouldn't be drawing any conclusions form the press reports at this stage, they are just picking out bits of the police statements and other information, and probably making a bit up, to sell newspapers.


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## LCobby (1 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 you should always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear 

[/ QUOTE ]

After a car coming the other way passes, eyes have to adjust, and of course, something may move into your path of travel.


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## the watcher (2 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
 you should always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear 

[/ QUOTE ]

After a car coming the other way passes, eyes have to adjust, and of course, something may move into your path of travel. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate that, and those are no doubt some of the considerations that will be taken into account by the investigators. However the general principle still applies.


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## walker1234 (2 January 2008)

There are lots of ifs and buts but lets be honest - she shouldnt have been on the road in the first place.  End of.


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## Merlotmonster (2 January 2008)

Im just shocked at the comments made by the father! He says there is no point regretting it and it could just as easily have happended if she had been on her pony!

The sheer arrogance of this man! He clearly considers he has no part in this accident!


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## KrujaaLass (2 January 2008)

I also read the report as to what the father said and could not believe what I was reading. Hoped somehow that he had been misquoted.


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## Tia (2 January 2008)

I haven't read it but it sounds like he said it, perhaps, so that no-one would lay blame to the lady who was driving the RR?

Anyone read whether the little girl was on the correct side of the road at the time of the incident?  And was the woman in the RR on her side?


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## Merlotmonster (2 January 2008)

Have read on other forums that driver had just passed the dads rangerover so would have had to have slowed down to pass no doubt. It was a very narrow road. In that case I would imagine she would have had to have been on the correct side of the road. 
The kids had a quad each so I imagine they may have been riding side by side, and the girl had a glancing blow. Anything at speed would have killed her outright, or at least made her injuries apparently obvious.
I dont think the press would have mis-quoted quite so badly. Im shocked he had no regrets. Does that mean he would do the same again??? I am gobsmacked.


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## LCobby (9 January 2008)

It woudl seem so

On local news, not national yet -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/7177222.stm


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## CazB (10 January 2008)

http://www.orange.co.uk/news/topstories/...p;article=index


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## Taboo1968 (10 January 2008)

I ahve just been catching up on the news on the BBC and found a story saying that the father has been arrested and bailed till later this month!


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