# Horse passport when loaning



## Brodiex (13 May 2013)

Hey everyone
I know this question gets asked a lot, buy I'm finding it difficult to find an answer.

A potential horse has come up for loan which sounds great for me, although before I view it I have some concerns about the passport. I've been chatting with the owner, who also sounds lovely, but her concern is she doesn't want to put the horse on loan with his passport in case he gets illegally sold. She has offered photocopies of the passport and we would have contracts. She also lives locally (45 minutes away). The horse is also not micro-chipped.

I was under the impression the the main rider/ keeper of the horse should have the original passport, and the passport should be with the horse at all times (bar grazing, hacking etc) and it is illegal otherwise. Does this apply to photocopies of the passport? 

Not really sure what to do in this situation :/ any advice would be much appreciated 

Thanks xx


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## millsandboon (13 May 2013)

Passport should be with the horse


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## Amymay (13 May 2013)

Whilst the passport should stay with the horse, I would be of the same mind as the owner I'm afraid and would only give you a photocopy of the document.


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## Emma86 (13 May 2013)

I have a horse on loan and the passport is with me. But we compete quite a lot and so I need it to travel her. Plus the owner is out of the country for most of the year. 

Loaning your horse means you have to put a lot of trust in the person responsible for your horse, but I do think the passport should be with the horse. If someone is going to sell a horse when it doesn't belong to them, I am sure they could find a way of doing it whether they had the passport or not.


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## Brodiex (13 May 2013)

If I just have photocopies of the passport, is that generally OK? As mentioned, the owner lives locally so would be able to take the passport down for vet trips etc, although I don't want to be landed a 5K fine


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## ihatework (13 May 2013)

It's a tricky one.
Whilst I completely see the owners concerns & POV, legally the passport should be with you and the horse. You will need it for travelling and vaccinations anyway.

I have been on both sides, and always the passport has stayed with the horse. The owner should certainly take precautions - for instance taking up references and confirming identity & address. They can also inform the passport issuer the horse is on loan.

Ultimately though - if they are going to entrust a living animal into your care they should be able to trust you with a bit of paper. Also, if you were a deceitful loaner - then not having a passpoert is not an issue, very easy to apply for new identity documents.


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## Brodiex (13 May 2013)

Also I wont be competing much- just small locals


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## Emma86 (13 May 2013)

ihatework said:



			Ultimately though - if they are going to entrust a living animal into your care they should be able to trust you with a bit of paper. Also, if you were a deceitful loaner - then not having a passpoert is not an issue, very easy to apply for new identity documents.
		
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This


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## Vodkagirly (13 May 2013)

As well as the travelling issue, our vet has anounced they need to see a passport before administering certain drugs so they can be noted on passport. 
CAn you give the owner photocopies of your identity documents, utility bills as proof of who you are and a signed contract saying you understand you don't own the horse?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (13 May 2013)

Most good PIO's will have a form to be completed for lease/loan.
Yes, it costs some money (for admin) but then it is on record that the horse/pony belongs to xyz but is on loan/lease/in the care of abc from 123 date.

OP, the microchip is not that expensive to have done, perhaps the owner can get this arranged before horse comes to you & then details logged with PIO


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## Polos Mum (13 May 2013)

I have a horse on loan and I have held on to his passport - the loaner has a photo copy.  This is technically wrong as others have said, but very common and I've yet to hear of anyone getting a fine for not having a passpost. 

Technically if your horses is on part or full livery then the passport should be held by the livery yard owner as they are the 'keeper' of the horse not the owner.  However very very few owners are willing to give their passports to a yard owner.


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## GrumpyHero (13 May 2013)

It's a legal requirement for the passport to be with the horse if you decide to travel anywhere etc
Aswell as if your vet needs to administer any drugs they will need to record it in the passport.

I have my loan boys passport


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## Tammytoo (13 May 2013)

Legally, the passport remains with the horse.  It is NOT proof of ownership of the horse, it is just an identification document which also should contain details of vaccinations and certain drugs administered.

If the PIO is informed that the horse is on loan and there is a Loan agreement stating  who is the owner of the horse that should be sufficient legal proof of ownership.  I would also insist on references before loaning.

I am afraid there are always going to be unscrupulouss people who "acquire" horses illegally and will obtain new or forged passports if necessary.


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## Brodiex (13 May 2013)

Thanks everyone for you replies- appreciate them


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## Jnhuk (16 May 2013)

The passport should be with the horse but I can understand their concerns.

How willing is the owner to be there with the passport when you need it for vet's visits (planned and unplanned) and any time you travel? I think it is only fair that if they wish to keep the passport that they should do the travelling back and forth for everytime you need the passport. Are they willing to spend their time and diesel/petrol to do this? 

You may find further in to the loan agreement, it will become less of an issue, as they get to know and trust you.


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## Avellana (24 May 2013)

I've had horses on loan and now have one out on loan to someone else. All of them have been freezemarked and microchipped and passports have stayed with the horses.

I registered the loan with the PIO for my horse that's on loan as well as on NED and with the freezemark company. Passports have been checked in my area and some local shows have told people they need to bring their passports to the show.


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## Rollin (24 May 2013)

Brodiex said:



			Hey everyone
I know this question gets asked a lot, buy I'm finding it difficult to find an answer.

A potential horse has come up for loan which sounds great for me, although before I view it I have some concerns about the passport. I've been chatting with the owner, who also sounds lovely, but her concern is she doesn't want to put the horse on loan with his passport in case he gets illegally sold. She has offered photocopies of the passport and we would have contracts. She also lives locally (45 minutes away). The horse is also not micro-chipped.

I was under the impression the the main rider/ keeper of the horse should have the original passport, and the passport should be with the horse at all times (bar grazing, hacking etc) and it is illegal otherwise. Does this apply to photocopies of the passport? 

Not really sure what to do in this situation :/ any advice would be much appreciated 

Thanks xx
		
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This is why the UK system is such a disgrace. Yes the passport should be with the horse.  In France a separate ownership document is issued, which is kept by the owner at all times and not with the keeper.

No horse should be sold without the ownershipt document being returned to the single PIO in France.  A much better system.


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## mandwhy (29 May 2013)

I have a pony on loan and do not have her passport, I know that I should but I totally understand why the owner didn't want to give it to me and she lives locally. We have a contract for a set period, I imagine when I come to need it for travel or vet she will probably leave it with me now she has seen I am normal, update her fairly regularly and care for the pony nicely. 

I know how you feel, it can be hard to say to someone 'look, I promise I'm not weird or anything!' But we hear such horror stories!


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