# Should I hit the panic button?



## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

When it rains, it pours. Nothing like putting your best friend to sleep, then going to see your (hopefully) new friend and feeling suspicious that they've been knocked up.

Is there any chance this horse could be pregnant, or is she just enjoying the grass too much? I'm about to make a panicked phone call to the vet tomorrow.


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## TheMule (2 June 2021)

Looks suspiciously like she could be. Did you say she'd been running in a herd with her sire?


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## Ownedby4horses (2 June 2021)

Any clover in your fields? My mare had this in the UK when there was clover. Someone else told me that it has something in it that causes similar symptoms to a phantom type pregnancy.


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## shortstuff99 (2 June 2021)

That's a tough one. Do you know where she would have come across a colt/stallion?

One of the Whitakers put colts in with my filly without me knowing and I went spare, so I know how you feel!


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## milliepops (2 June 2021)

Ownedby4horses said:



			Any clover in your fields? My mare had this in the UK when there was clover. Someone else told me that it has something in it that causes similar symptoms to a phantom type pregnancy.
		
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yeah one of mine popped up a full udder because of this earlier in the year. it has gone away again now as I've swapped paddocks. 

But def worth checking if she was out with dad at the stud


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## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

I know she was out with Dad at the stud. And she doesn't geld the colts. She apparently separates the colts before they can do anything, but who the hell knows if she does it in time. 

What the f**ck am I gonna do about this?


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## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

OH must be more observant than me. He says there is clover in the field.


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## Sandstone1 (2 June 2021)

Get a vet check asap, you will know one way or another then.


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## Sir barnaby (2 June 2021)

Have you noticed her in season lately, if you have any geldings around stand them together and see if the gelding brings her into season. If not best get her checked by the vet.


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## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

She's in a field with one gelding and seven other mares. I _thought _she was in season about two weeks ago, because she got really clingy to the herd and spooky as hell. I didn't see her backing up to the gelding or peeing at him or anything like that. But after five days of being weird, she resumed being sweet and cooperative. But that could have been youngster silliness as well.

I will be on the phone to the vet first thing tomorrow.


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## Amymay (2 June 2021)

Looks suspicious to me 😱


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## Goldenstar (2 June 2021)

She is a Pre isn’t she ?
They can be very reactive to grass so I should imagine the same applies to clover .
I would get her checked though .


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## Michen (2 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I know she was out with Dad at the stud. And she doesn't geld the colts. She apparently separates the colts before they can do anything, but who the hell knows if she does it in time.

What the f**ck am I gonna do about this?
		
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confused how old is the dad and how old is she!?


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## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

Filly will be three in a month. Dad isn't a young stallion. I think he's in his teens. 

I hope the vet tells me it's clover. I. do. not. need. this. I just can't do a BOGOF now. I just can't.


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## Michen (2 June 2021)

I don’t understand haha, call me stupid, but why would anyone have a stallion in with a mare if they didn’t want to risk a baby...!?


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## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

Breeder thinks it's better for them to run with the family herd for a while? I know she's bred these horses for years. I assumed she knew what she was doing. I feel like an idiot.


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## Michen (2 June 2021)

But surely stallions don’t know their own daughters so the inevitable happens...

that seems absolutely bonkers.

but I know nothing about breeding so maybe it’s common practice? Or completely irresponsible if risking a deformed foal.

suppose it happens in the wild though so maybe foal will be fine?


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## bouncing_ball (2 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Filly will be three in a month. Dad isn't a young stallion. I think he's in his teens.

I hope the vet tells me it's clover. I. do. not. need. this. I just can't do a BOGOF now. I just can't.
		
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Was she out with a stallion all the spring snd summer of her two year old year? If so I’d be surprised if she wasn’t in foal!


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## CanteringCarrot (2 June 2021)

Definitely could be clover. Also could've blown up because of the grass. Could be both....or be pregnant but I'm hoping for you that it's the clover.

I'd call the vet because I'd want to know either way.


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## Michen (2 June 2021)

Yeah I’m struggling to see why she WOULDN’T be in foal 🙈

and why you’d want to run that risk


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## milliepops (2 June 2021)

it's not your fault if breeder has left entires in with mares, i agree with Michen that is crazy.  Really young colts can still get mares pregnant  what a weird thing to do.
Hopefully it's just odd clover boobs but def time for a once over by the vet.


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## Goldenstar (2 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Breeder thinks it's better for them to run with the family herd for a while? I know she's bred these horses for years. I assumed she knew what she was doing. I feel like an idiot.
		
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Shes thinks what !!!! Get the vet ASAP .


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## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

I want a foal right now like a hole in the head. I'm trying to figure out a second riding horse while she grows up, and I am going to have a nervous breakdown if this is in foal.

She was with the stallion in February this year. I don't know if they were separated in the spring/summer.


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## Melody Grey (2 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Breeder thinks it's better for them to run with the family herd for a while? I know she's bred these horses for years. I assumed she knew what she was doing. I feel like an idiot.
		
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Don’t feel silly.....but I think the breeder should! 🤦‍♀️


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## Michen (2 June 2021)

When did you buy her? Was she vetted? Did vet know she’d been in with stallion?


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## Fransurrey (2 June 2021)

Ownedby4horses said:



			Any clover in your fields? My mare had this in the UK when there was clover. Someone else told me that it has something in it that causes similar symptoms to a phantom type pregnancy.
		
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Agree with this. My mare had the same thing. It seems horses get bigger titties like we do when we eat all the rich stuff and clover is high in phyto-oestrogens (although there's some debate as to how relevant they are to a mammal).


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## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

I bought her in early March. Yes, she was vetted, but I don't know if the vet knew she'd been in with the stallion. The vet practice knows the farm, so they might know how she keeps the horses. I honestly can't remember if that came up in conversation. I feel so stupid for not thinking about it.


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## Clodagh (2 June 2021)

I wouldn’t panic, the breeder probably hasn’t had endless oops foals so probably does know what she is doing. Also don’t beat yourself up.
Vet check so you know, job done x


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## The Fuzzy Furry (2 June 2021)

I'd like to hope its clover but def worth discussions with your vet.

If, if she was in foal, then I'd be speaking to previous owner and asking them what they were going to do about it.

Happy to advise further if not a 'clover glut' as I had to deal with a surprise in late summer 2018, all worked out ok in the end as mare and foal went back till foal was weaned, absolutely no cost to me.


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## Gloi (2 June 2021)

If she is in foal it was from earlier than this February.


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## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

Gloi said:



			If she is in foal it was from earlier than this February.
		
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Yeah, it would be from spring/summer 2020. If I have a BOGOF right now, I am going to crawl into a closet and never, ever come out. I really like this horse. A lot. I don't want to give her up but I _cannot _deal with a foal now. I just can't.


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## Michen (2 June 2021)

Is the foal likely to be ok if dad is also grandad?

If so maybe you’ll have a lovely foal OP and it’ll end up being the best horse you ever had!


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## bouncing_ball (2 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Yeah, it would be from spring/summer 2020. If I have a BOGOF right now, I am going to crawl into a closet and never, ever come out. I really like this horse. A lot. I don't want to give her up but I _cannot _deal with a foal now. I just can't.
		
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I think you could send her back to stud at their cost until foal weaned if she is in foal.


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## Michen (2 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Yeah, it would be from spring/summer 2020. If I have a BOGOF right now, I am going to crawl into a closet and never, ever come out. I really like this horse. A lot. I don't want to give her up but I _cannot _deal with a foal now. I just can't.
		
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well you bought a mare that had been in with stallions so you may have to, part of owning horses I guess is the drama good and bad that comes with them. It’s not the end of the world surely, an injury of some sorts would be worse, you could send her back to stud until foal is weaned then sell it.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (2 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Yeah, it would be from spring/summer 2020. If I have a BOGOF right now, I am going to crawl into a closet and never, ever come out.
		
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Breathe.....
You cant change whatever it is, except to come off clover....
'If' you have a bogof then the breeder needs to step up and offer a solution.
IF you have to go this route, then you still can have the offspring weaned before xmas, depending on drop zone timing. She's only 3, but looks a good sort and you can then start her in the new year.


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## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

Michen said:



			well you bought a mare that had been in with stallions so you may have to, part of owning horses I guess is the drama good and bad that comes with them. It’s not the end of the world surely, an injury of some sorts would be worse, you could send her back to stud until foal is weaned then sell it.
		
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I mean, yeah. No sh*t. I wish I'd thought of that. I honestly do. If that had crossed my mind at the time, I wouldn't have bought the damned horse but I was clearly being an idiot and bought the horse.


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## Michen (2 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I mean, yeah. No sh*t. I wish I'd thought of that. I honestly do. If that had crossed my mind at the time, I wouldn't have bought the damned horse but I was clearly being an idiot and bought the horse.
		
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Well it sounds like you are catastrophising somewhat (unless foal is likely to be deformed in which case I totally understand). The horse is young, you wouldn’t be doing much with her anyway so really if she pops a foal and you then sell it as soon as you can is that really so bad?

Annoying yes but much better than extended box rest or a career ending injury or one of the many, many other things that can go wrong with horses that owners have to deal with.


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## Mrs. Jingle (2 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I was clearly being an idiot and bought the horse
		
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No I dont think you were being an idiot, an apparently experienced breeder told you that is how she runs her herd and claims without this sort of problem of her stallions covering their own offspring. 

I am assuming you do not have experience in breeding, so why would you be expected to question the seller that you assumed was knowledgeable and honest.  Don't beat yourself up - its done now and hopefully, by some minor miracle she is not in foal, if she is insist breeder takes her back until the foal is at least safely delivered and ready to come off the mare.


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## Inda (2 June 2021)

Carmin did this when I moved her to the new yard. I did all the bloodwork and it was negative. It’s a long week waiting for the pmsg and oestrogen sulphate.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (2 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I mean, yeah. No sh*t. I wish I'd thought of that. I honestly do. If that had crossed my mind at the time, I wouldn't have bought the damned horse but I was clearly being an idiot and bought the horse.
		
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you aren’t being an idiot. If anything the idiot in this scenario is the breeder I mean come on 🙄 nature much.

If she is in foal then let her have the foal, wean it and sell it. Then your mare is older and you aren’t losing any time before backing etc. Could be worse she could be four and you were looking to back her and ride her this year, you aren’t.

Get the vet, if she’s in foal then a frank chat with the stud, if No joy there do a good bit of reading up, engage someone who knows what’s what, speak to your vet about options for foaling down and go from there. A friend foaled her own horse down on our yard. Maiden mare, older than yours but foal is now four and being backed.

Freaking out won’t help anything and is clearly just making you have bad thoughts. Chase then out and reset. You aren’t a novice owner trust in your own ability


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## Emilieu (2 June 2021)

It’s been a hell of a day Mrs. Stay calm. I had this scare with Betty last year (no boob action though, just big grass belly) and like you I really really didn’t want her to be in foal, so I get it. But worse things have definitely happened, and if she is then she is and it’s a problem to overcome another day- an easier other day. Thousands of people (often idiots...) overcome this issue every year. If you have to then you definitely can. 

I also can’t help but feel that whether it’s a scare or a baby it’s a gift from Gypsum 🙈 along the lines of, I don’t want mum fretting about me... I know! Something to take her mind off it...


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## leotom (2 June 2021)

I don’t have the expertise to comment on in foal or not but I just wanted to say I’m sorry to read about your best friend being put to sleep, it’s never easy to deal with so be kind to yourself about Hermosa, I’m sure you’ll cope with whatever it is - clover or a plus 1.


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## PurBee (2 June 2021)

Her dropped belly side pic reminds me of my pregnant mare around 8 wks before foaling - except the pic showing her gut width isnt looking that wide at all....my mare was fairly huge 8wks prior to foaling. She’s bagging up her udders but could be clover. 
The dropped belly pic has me suspicious...if that was grass/hay belly - wouldnt her gut look wide aswell?

My mare had been a broodmare, consecutive foals for 8 yrs...so the dropped belly-look took about 18months after foaling to eventually ping back. Even when she has a hay/grass belly since, her gut shows much wider than her butt, but her belly never drops, so ive come to understand dropped belly is associated with pregnancy. I could be wrong...only one mare to learn from!

Fingers crossed vet can truly confirm for you. 
A foal is a blessing in many ways and could end up being advantageous if you were willing...but certainly more time involvement needed so i can relate to your reaction IF she is in foal.


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## shortstuff99 (2 June 2021)

On fresh grass my PRE mare always looks pregnant, they seem to often just drop the belly.


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## Amymay (2 June 2021)

The dropped belly pic has me suspicious...if that was grass/hay belly - wouldnt her gut look wide as well?
		
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I thought the same.


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## Ambers Echo (2 June 2021)

So sorry to hear about Gypsum. A BOGOF is far from ideal but you can deal with whatever is thrown your way. I've known a few unexpected arrivals and it gets figured out. One way or another. One step at a time....


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## Shilasdair (2 June 2021)

Looks in foal to me - but with 2 to 3 months to go.

And I like the 'clover' theory - but in reality it's just that rich grazing/over nutrition can make mares run milk (and get mastitis), doesn't just have to be clover.


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## Palindrome (2 June 2021)

Don't panic just yet, get the vet first.
Then if she is in foal, contact the breeder, they might want the foal and keep your mare until the foal is weaned at no cost to you. They also can probably do the necessary paperwork so the foal is registered.


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## ycbm (2 June 2021)

God Almighty  CI, I  hope this is just clover but I suspect not.   On the plus side it will be a valuable foal is it is one.  Keep calm and Carry on! 
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## Shilasdair (2 June 2021)

ycbm said:



			God Almighty  CI, I  hope this is just clover but I suspect not.   On the plus side it will be a valuable foal is it is one.  Keep calm and Carry on!
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Is line breeding sought after in PREs then?

ETA - no point panicking anyway OP, you can't change it, just enjoy the foal.   Foal watching is a hobby in itself.


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## Gloi (2 June 2021)

She might be carrying the best horse you'll ever have.


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## ycbm (2 June 2021)

Shilasdair said:



			Is line breeding sought after in PREs then?
		
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I was trying to reassure an upset poster.

If it's good it's good and if it's not there is no point worrying about it, what's done is done.

There is no issue with line breeding IF there are no genetic issues from it, and it's far far from given that there will be.
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## Shilasdair (2 June 2021)

ycbm said:



			I was trying to reassue an upset poster.

If it's good it's good and if it's not there is no point worrying about it, what's done is done.

There is no issue with line breeding IF there are no genetic issues from it, and it's far far from given that there will be.
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Ah - you threw me by suggesting it would be particularly valuable - and I have a secret belief that PRE breeders are bat excrement crazy from my experience with 'em .
Not suggesting Caol Ila is due to the unintentional nature of her first go at breeding foals!  

It'll be fine.  It'll be a foal.  It'll cost lots of time and money.   That's what horses of all ages do.


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## Palindrome (2 June 2021)

It's likely the foal will be fine (if the mare is indeed in foal) and the mare is young so there are less risks than with an older mare.
I so want another foal, mine is turning 4 next month.


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## Millie-Rose (2 June 2021)

So sorry to hear about Gypsum. I don't post much but have been here years so have followed your various trials with her. I lost my old girl I'd had 24 years a couple of months ago so can understand how hard it is. The filly looks very suspicious to me. One give away is if the belly sits more to one side than the other when viewed from behind, when just fat is usually uniform each side. The vet will confirm for you either way though. Just to address some thoughts on here inbreeding (or line breeding as often called) is quite common in some breeds Welsh being one and is done on purpose so although obviously not desirable I wouldn't worry about problems with foal due to close relative being the sire. The foaling hub on Facebook is a really useful site with lots of knowledgeable people on and posts like yours are a daily occurrence. For now though take care of yourself there's nothing immediate you can do even if she is and if she is I would be looking to stud to sort for you. If getting milk she would be 4 to 6 weeks roughly so with foal weaned at 6 months you would have her back in the new year ready to break. I have my fingers crossed for you that she isn't though


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## Lurfy (2 June 2021)

Hiugs to you Caol, you have had a really tough time. Fingers crossed she is not pregnant. Wait til you get your vet out before worrying too much about a possible foal. Take care of yourself xxx


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## FlyingCircus (2 June 2021)

Clodagh said:



			I wouldn’t panic, the breeder probably hasn’t had endless oops foals so probably does know what she is doing. Also don’t beat yourself up.
Vet check so you know, job done x
		
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I wouldnt be so sure! From where I think this girl is from, the breeder doesn't seem to be the most conscientious of sorts. Pretty sure I came across this mare for sale when I was looking end of last year


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## FlyingCircus (2 June 2021)

To add, it may seem like the end of the world now for her to be up the duff, but if she is you'll get through it and have a cuuuute foal as a result. Then you can sell when weaned


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## shortstuff99 (2 June 2021)

If she is in foal (which she still very much might not be!) Depending on how far a long she is there are options on whether to continue with the pregnancy.


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## Caol Ila (2 June 2021)

In 21 years, Gypsum never got me scared that she was in foal (when I didn't want her to be...which was most of the time). Maybe Emma's right. She's having a laugh and distracting me.... one way or another.


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## slimjim (2 June 2021)

Hopefully it is just the grass.  A quick look at the website made it look as though at least yearling colts run with the herd.  If she is in foal then I would think it likely that if you returned her to the stud for foaling/weaning then she could quite possibly come back in foal again.

The only BOGOF I know of ended happily with a great foal, but I can see that you don't want a foal and I have seen what problems a single foal can be on a livery yard.  Don't panic just yet though, until the vets been/you get the results.


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## Asha (2 June 2021)

From the size she is ( if she’s In foal ) you should be able to see some movement . Best time to look is when you bring her in and give her a little food . 
She’s does look the right shape to be in foal.
Here’s hoping she’s just over done the grass


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## holeymoley (2 June 2021)

I’m going with grass belly 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Spirit2021 (2 June 2021)

At least you got 2 for the price of one.

She actually doesn’t look in foal to me the livery yard owner  in my yard breeds her mare and  would be looking massive even when months away from foaling . She actually looks like my mare when I first got her everyone thought she was pregnant she wasn’t though.  I wouldn’t recommend actually contacting the breeder because most of the time they will change you for a accident.  From actually looking at mares I would say nope definitely not.


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## Apercrumbie (2 June 2021)

The belly looks like it could be a grass belly to me - particularly given that she's young and not in work so won't have much core strength. Equally, she could be pregnant. Either way, you'll know soon enough and you will manage. I'm sorry that this has come at such a rough time for you though.


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## JJS (3 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Yeah, it would be from spring/summer 2020. If I have a BOGOF right now, I am going to crawl into a closet and never, ever come out. I really like this horse. A lot. I don't want to give her up but I _cannot _deal with a foal now. I just can't.
		
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I’m so sorry to hear about Gypsum, OP - it’s an awful thing to lose your best friend.

On the subject of Hermosa, a word from the all-too-wise: you can and you will deal with it, if you need to. It might feel utterly terrifying and impossible, but it’s different when they arrive. Once you see a foal come into the world, there’s something inexplicably precious in that. You can’t regret their unexpected arrival, no matter how inconvenient it might be.


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## Tiddlypom (3 June 2021)

Spirit2021 said:



			I wouldn’t recommend actually contacting the breeder because most of the time they will change you for a accident
		
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Do you mean *charge*? You think that a breeder would ask the OP for more money if the filly they sold was in foal? That's not how it works. The filly was sold as a youngster to be raised as a riding prospect, not as an empty brood mare with a failed covering.

OP, I hope that the vet check can allay your fears, but she does look in foal to me, too. The breeder may well have her back to foal in that case, if that is what you decide is best.


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## brighteyes (3 June 2021)

Whatever the outcome, it's not an all or nothing and there are lots of options - none of which should interfere too much with Hermosa's career under saddle, as long as all goes well with any foaling that might or might not be occurring. Panic button, no - vet check, yes. I'll cross my fingers for you.


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## ycbm (3 June 2021)

Adding my two pennyworth to the disbelief that a stud runs colts with mares. I've seen the result of a yearling turned out with a mare, she was a nice little filly.
.


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## Spirit2021 (3 June 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Do you mean *charge*? You think that a breeder would ask the OP for more money if the filly they sold was in foal? That's not how it works. The filly was sold as a youngster to be raised as a riding prospect, not as an empty brood mare with a failed covering.
		
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It actually happened to me  friend  she bought a youngster a found out she was pregnant. When she contact the breeder they told her they wanted a stud fee and if they wanted mare to  to foal at there stud my friend would have to pay for it .

op doesn’t have a leg to stand on because she bought a youngster  knowing that  mare has been running with a herd of colts and stallion.


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## ihatework (3 June 2021)

Spirit2021 said:



			It actually happened to me  friend  she bought a youngster a found out she was pregnant. When she contact the breeder they told her they wanted a stud fee and if they wanted mare to  to foal at there stud my friend would have to pay for it .

op doesn’t have a leg to stand on because she bought a youngster  knowing that  mare has been running with a herd of colts and stallion.
		
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In the politest way possible you are talking twaddle.


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## ihatework (3 June 2021)

OP - no need to hit the panic button, what will be, will be.

First step - vet check!

If she is in foal then it’s so unlikely to impact her as a long term riding horse for you. She’s 3, it’s not as if you would be doing a great deal with her this year anyway.

A shock. A surprise. Not in the life plans. But in the grand scheme of things, not a disaster.


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## Trouper (3 June 2021)

Please take this in the nicest possible way but I think your emotions are playing havoc with your brain at the moment.  If Hermosa is in foal, then she will be the one doing all the work (!) and, as others have said, at her age another year before riding is nothing to worry about.
Many of us on here have been fooled before with pictures indicating that a mare was in foal so wait until you have confirmation or not from the vet.  This time I am putting my money on the grass - it has been the weirdest Spring, not only with the varying quantity of grass but also with its quality - as so many laminitis cases testify.
Don't panic - yet!!


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## Griffin (3 June 2021)

May also be worth looking to see if the udders have been bitten. That wouldn't explain the tummy (although that could be grass) but my mare had and insect bite on her udders a couple of years ago and the swelling was enormous. 

I hope the vet gives you some answers today.


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## Midlifecrisis (3 June 2021)

One of my mares started lactating 3 years ago after being on clover and very rich grass...and some upset in the field. I’m hoping it’s a reaction to clover..


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## ycbm (3 June 2021)

Spirit2021 said:



			It actually happened to me  friend  she bought a youngster a found out she was pregnant. When she contact the breeder they told her they wanted a stud fee.
		
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They can ask,  I suppose.  There's not a hope in hell they would get it,  unless your friend was asking for a covering certificate.  
.


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## CanteringCarrot (3 June 2021)

ihatework said:



			In the politest way possible you are talking twaddle.
		
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Hm, I don't know.  I have seen someone buy a mare that was (unknowingly) pregnant. Buyer had no idea mare was ever bred. Seller didn't disclose, and buyer had no reason to think the mare was ever exposed to a stallion (only out with mares), bought and advertised as a riding horse for competition.

Buyer, months later, once she found out, went to the seller stating she did not intend on buying a pregnant mare/that wasn't in the deal, but offered the foal to the breeder. Breeder then had the balls to ask for a stud fee and that the Buyer should pay them to take the foal. That's right. Insane. Buyer foaled out mare elsewhere and ended up keeping the resulting foal, but is having a heck of a battle getting it registered. This is not a common situation though. So not the "norm" by any means.

As for the OP having a leg to stand on *if the horse is pregnant* I am not sure. A few variables here. 

So in the politest way possible, just because it seems whack, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. 

Situations that seem black and white regarding responsibility or accountability aren't always. Of course anyone is free to have their opinion, but sometimes things play out in ways don't make sense.


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## CanteringCarrot (3 June 2021)

I feel like she isn't pregnant, but my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it 🤣

If she is, one step at a time. It's a pain in the arse, but something that can be figured out. 

As I say often, I'm still trying to figure out how horses/this hobby is, as some people say, "relaxing" 😂

Either way OP, you'll both get through it. I hate when life throws a wrench in the gears, but I try to have a sense of humor as I watch more gray hairs turn up.


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## ihatework (3 June 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Hm, I don't know.  I have seen someone buy a mare that was (unknowingly) pregnant. Buyer had no idea mare was ever bred. Seller didn't disclose, and buyer had no reason to think the mare was ever exposed to a stallion (only out with mares), bought and advertised as a riding horse for competition.

Buyer, months later, once she found out, went to the seller stating she did not intend on buying a pregnant mare/that wasn't in the deal, but offered the foal to the breeder. Breeder then had the balls to ask for a stud fee and that the Buyer should pay them to take the foal. That's right. Insane. Buyer foaled out mare elsewhere and ended up keeping the resulting foal, but is having a heck of a battle getting it registered. This is not a common situation though. So not the "norm" by any means.

As for the OP having a leg to stand on *if the horse is pregnant* I am not sure. A few variables here.

So in the politest way possible, just because it seems whack, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Situations that seem black and white regarding responsibility or accountability aren't always. Of course anyone is free to have their opinion, but sometimes things play out in ways don't make sense.
		
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There is a difference though. The stud, if they are less than straight, can ask for whatever they want. It doesn’t mean they will get it, or be entitled to it 😛 The OP would have plenty of legs to stand on. The only area of contention would be a covering certificate for full bred papers if the stud wanted to be awkward. There is no right to mandatory stud fees, dispute over foal ownership or where the mare should foal down. So all that is twaddle. I have no doubt every now and again a stud might try their luck, but that is very different to the owner of the mare being legally obliged to comply


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## shortstuff99 (3 June 2021)

The registering (if pregnant, I'm still not sure!) Wouldn't need a covering certificate as the foal would be PRE fusion with BAPSH. Unfortunately as Hermosa is not graded the foal can't be registered as PRE.


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## CanteringCarrot (3 June 2021)

ihatework said:



			There is a difference though. The stud, if they are less than straight, can ask for whatever they want. It doesn’t mean they will get it, or be entitled to it 😛 The OP would have plenty of legs to stand on. The only area of contention would be a covering certificate for full bred papers if the stud wanted to be awkward. There is no right to mandatory stud fees, dispute over foal ownership or where the mare should foal down. So all that is twaddle. I have no doubt every now and again a stud might try their luck, but that is very different to the owner of the mare being legally obliged to comply
		
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I am in total agreement that the stud can ask for whatever, but that doesn't mean they will get it nor are they entitled to it. Sorry if I conveyed otherwise, that was not my intention, nor the point I wanted to make. In the situation I know above, the stud were outrageous IMO, and of course they didn't get what they wanted. Of course any stud could try their luck and the mare owner is not legally obliged to comply. I don't think that's the argument here.

As my post said above, the registering was the hang up with that buyer and stud. So that relates to what you're saying about a covering certificate.

I don't think anyone said that there is a right to mandatory stud fees or that there could be a dispute over foaling details or ownership, so that would, indeed, be twaddle.

What Spirit was getting at, I think, was that the OP would be "stuck" with the foal as she knowingly bought a filly/mare that was living out with a stallion. It wasn't about ownership by the breeder or foaling details, necessarily. I don't think that's entirely "twaddle" because if one buys a mare that is running with a stallion doesn't one assume the risk when purchasing that the mare could be pregnant? 

So if the buyer says, "I bought this mare, not this mare and her foal that is inside her."

And the seller says, "Well, you knew and saw her living with a stallion, but didn't inquire further/accepted that, how are you surprised by a foal?" 

Not saying this is the situation with Hermosa or will be the situation at all, but it is a point that I think was trying to be made that got misconstrued.


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## tristar (3 June 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Do you mean *charge*? You think that a breeder would ask the OP for more money if the filly they sold was in foal? That's not how it works. The filly was sold as a youngster to be raised as a riding prospect, not as an empty brood mare with a failed covering.

OP, I hope that the vet check can allay your fears, but she does look in foal to me, too. The breeder may well have her back to foal in that case, if that is what you decide is best.
		
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so sorry about gypsum

this er, breeder has sold a 3 yr old who has not been well handled at all, i would not be sending the mare back to them, foaling is for dedicated people who actually have the knowledge and interest in the animals welfare.


quite frankly,  what a half soaked get that person is


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## Mrs. Jingle (3 June 2021)

Spirit2021 said:



			I wouldn’t recommend actually contacting the breeder because most of the time they will change you for a accident.
		
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Eh?????? What??????




Spirit2021 said:



			It actually happened to me  friend  she bought a youngster a found out she was pregnant. When she contact the breeder they told her they wanted a stud fee and if they wanted mare to  to foal at there stud my friend would have to pay for it .

op doesn’t have a leg to stand on because she bought a youngster  knowing that  mare has been running with a herd of colts and stallion.
		
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Oh for goodness sake - the breeder can ask all she wants, not a leg to stand on IMO. In fact if and it is a big IF right now, the mare is in foal I would be asking for recompense from the seller who sold under a false description full stop.  If the so far non existent foal is fit and healthy, OP will get a very good price with or without papers.

Please do try and be a little more positive, OP obviously feeling very unhappy right now.


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## tristar (3 June 2021)

Spirit2021 said:



			It actually happened to me  friend  she bought a youngster a found out she was pregnant. When she contact the breeder they told her they wanted a stud fee and if they wanted mare to  to foal at there stud my friend would have to pay for it .

op doesn’t have a leg to stand on because she bought a youngster  knowing that  mare has been running with a herd of colts and stallion.
		
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a good point, about knowing the stallion was in with the mare, makes it much more complicated, legally, shall we say, its kind of blxxdy obvious what MIGHT  happen! or in this case may very well have happened already, if she is in foal

of course one could always claim to have no knowledge of the birds and bees...


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## Lipglosspukka (3 June 2021)

She's only 3 this year? So not the end of the world if she has a foal and you start her next year as a 4yo.

If the foal isn't your cup of tea then you can sell it but I'm sure you will feel different once it's here. It's exciting.


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## CanteringCarrot (3 June 2021)

Mrs Jingle said:



			Eh?????? What??????




Oh for goodness sake - the breeder can ask all she wants, not a leg to stand on IMO. In fact if and it is a big IF right now, the mare is in foal I would be asking for recompense from the seller who sold under a false description full stop.  If the so far non existent foal is fit and healthy, OP will get a very good price with or without papers.

Please do try and be a little more positive, OP obviously feeling very unhappy right now.
		
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How was it a false description though? 
That's sort of the theoretical hang up...and is an interesting convo to me...and I should perhaps start a separate thread to avoid derailing this more. I don't mean to throw a bunch of scenarios at the OP because we don't even know that the horse is pregnant or has a food baby. 

So please, don't stress due to me having a discussion.


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## bubsqueaks (3 June 2021)

This happened to us a couple of years ago - 6 months after buying mare from yard we knew also had a stallion!
Went into panic mode but for peace of mind got the Vet out to scan her - empty!
Turned out to be a virus & grass belly!
Hopefully you have the vet booked as its worth the cost just for peace of mind - fingers crossed for you.


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## Quadro (3 June 2021)

From a practical point of view, if she is find somewhere for her to foal and preferably turned out with out youngstock. I can help with both if need be


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## Annagain (3 June 2021)

Oh CI, you are having a time of it aren't you. Have a big hug and a stiff gin. 

I agree with the others though. While inconvenient, it needn't be the end of the world. You wouldn't be doing much with Hermosa until next Spring anyway so if there is a BOGOF she can be a teenage mum for this year and once foaly is weaned, you can sell on and she can start work. You can still do little bits of groundwork with her over the winter, either with foaly in tow or to give her a break from being mum. It's far better now than a year or two down the line.  

As others have said, line breeding won't necessarily cause deformities, it's just that any genetic quirks might be amplified so if dad is generally healthy and doesn't have any issues, there's no reason why the foal should. The most difficult thing might be establishing whether the stallion is dad or if it's one of the colts (who I assume will be her half brothers?). 

I hope it is just clover but if it's not, you can deal with it and it needn't put your plans for her back too much - maybe a couple of months at most.


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## Ambers Echo (3 June 2021)

We had a s BOGOF recently on our yard. Cob mare bought in March. Foal appeared overnight with zero warning. Owner reactions went from 'OMFG noooooooo'  to 'awwww she's soooooo cute'; and from 'what a nightmare' to 'how exciting' in about 6 hours.

For your peace of mind, I hope she's ok. But if not, it will be fine in the end anyway x


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## Kat (3 June 2021)

So so sorry to hear about Gypsum. 

I can't offer any helpful advice on the foal or fat issue but it really isn't the end of the world. Incredibly daunting but you can and will deal with it and there is a chance you will end up with a lovely baby.


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## Spirit2021 (3 June 2021)

Mrs Jingle said:



			Eh?????? What??????




Oh for goodness sake - the breeder can ask all she wants, not a leg to stand on IMO. In fact if and it is a big IF right now, the mare is in foal I would be asking for recompense from the seller who sold under a false description full stop.  If the so far non existent foal is fit and healthy, OP will get a very good price with or without papers.

Please do try and be a little more positive, OP obviously feeling very unhappy right now.
		
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legally the op bought a horse knowing it’s been in with colts and stallion. She wouldn’t have a leg to stand on because it common sense there is chances the horse would be pregnant anyway. I not trying to be negative just realistically and I don’t get  why op would even consider buying a horse when you now that information without getting a vet to check to see if it pregnant before handing over money.


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## Caol Ila (3 June 2021)

The vet is booked for tomorrow. YO sent a text this morning asking, "Has she been around any stallions?" So yeah, she's noticed too. F*cking great.

She used to run a stud, so she knows her way around a foal. If the horse can stay put, she will. If YO doesn't want to deal, I would rather send her to Quadro's yard (even if it is over an hour away) than back to the breeder. I guess it's good knowing there is a plan B. You guys are right -- if she's back at the stud, there's a risk of her getting knocked up again. You only make that mistake once.

Fingers crossed this flapping is for nought, and it's just the grass.

The vet receptionist did giggle a bit when she asked what the appointment was for, and I replied flatly, "The horse might be pregnant."

Having booked my vet appointment, I'm going back to bed, where I plan on staying for the rest of the day.

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. Should have got horse checked. Like I said, I foolishly thought the breeder knew what she was doing, as she's been doing it forever. I'm aware that was not clever of me.


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## Tiddlypom (3 June 2021)

Spirit2021 said:



			legally the op bought a horse knowing it’s been in with colts and stallion. She wouldn’t have a leg to stand on because it common sense there is chances the horse would be pregnant anyway. I not trying to be negative just realistically and I don’t get  why op would even consider buying a horse when you now that information without getting a vet to check to see if it pregnant before handing over money.
		
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The breeder has no claim on the foal, if there is one, so please stop spreading more worry for the OP.

The issue and wisdom of why a stud runs a 2yo filly out with her father (if that is what happened) is a separate one to the ownership of any resulting foal.


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## Goldenstar (3 June 2021)

The breeder has no  legal right to anything and if they are nuts enough ( and it for sounds that they might be ) to think they are OP be just needs to get a letter sent saying in legalise bog off you are getting nothing .

Of course let’s all hope it’s a great puffy grass belly .
Fingers crossed CI .


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## CanteringCarrot (3 June 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			The breeder has no claim on the foal, if there is one, so please stop spreading more worry for the OP.

The issue and wisdom of why a stud runs a 2yo filly out with her father (if that is what happened) is a separate one to the ownership of any resulting foal.
		
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Literally no one is saying that the breeder has a claim to the foal.


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## CanteringCarrot (3 June 2021)

Fingers crossed for a food baby diagnosis tomorrow. Even if not, sounds like you've for some options and it'll work out.


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## CanteringCarrot (3 June 2021)

Spirit2021 said:



			legally the op bought a horse knowing it’s been in with colts and stallion. She wouldn’t have a leg to stand on because it common sense there is chances the horse would be pregnant anyway. I not trying to be negative just realistically and I don’t get  why op would even consider buying a horse when you now that information without getting a vet to check to see if it pregnant before handing over money.
		
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Ok, can you clarify a bit? I feel as though you are saying that the OP has no leg to stand on insofar as making the claim that the breeder is responsible and should pay for the foal and/or cover all costs, liabilities and responsibilities, and horse was "missold" 

Others seem to think that you are saying that the breeder has rights to the foal and can essentially take the foal, or charge a stud fee, or do as they please/request outrageous things, and the OP has no means of defense.

Which one is it or is it none of the above? If I read wrong, that's fine too. I don't think you're saying the latter, I don't think anyone is.


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## Tiddlypom (3 June 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Literally no one is saying that the breeder has a claim to the foal.
		
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This is the post I was referring to, which makes it sounds like the breeder would have some sort of financial claim if there is a foal, which would not be the case.


Spirit2021 said:



			I wouldn’t recommend actually contacting the breeder because most of the time they will change you for a accident
		
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## Spirit2021 (3 June 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Ok, can you clarify a bit? I feel as though you are saying that the OP has no leg to stand on insofar as making the claim that the breeder is responsible and should pay for the foal and/or cover all costs, liabilities and responsibilities, and horse was "missold"
		
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Yeah that’s what I meant.


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## CanteringCarrot (3 June 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			This is the post I was referring to, which makes it sounds like the breeder would have some sort of financial claim if there is a foal, which would not be the case.
		
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Ok, fair enough. I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt, but I suppose someone may really think that the "op wouldn't have a leg to stand on" if the breeder did that.

The breeder can certainly request x, y, and z, but isn't entitled to anything.

I wanted to convince myself that no one really thought that 😅

The posts aren't exactly cohesive so I asked for clarification to make sure that no one was jumping to an unnecessary conclusion based off of a misunderstanding. However, if that's not the case, carry on. Nothing to see here.

I thought the post you quoted was a separate statement.


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## CanteringCarrot (3 June 2021)

Spirit2021 said:



			Yeah that’s what I meant.
		
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Ok, that's what I had figured. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Xtra (3 June 2021)

Happened to me years ago.  I panicked then I coped no bother.  Good luck either way. If she is in foal then maybe its meant to be and as others have said wont impact your future plans for her.  After the initial shock I just saw it as a foal that was mine with 9 months less pregnancy worry as I hadnt known !!


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## Palindrome (3 June 2021)

A very distant relative of mine bought a mare unknowingly in foal in Spain (the whole story took place in Spain). When he told the seller/breeder, they wanted more money. Relative told the seller to jog on as he now owned the mare, the seller reluctantly agreed to do the paperwork to have the foal registered.
Of course the breeder doesn't have a claim to the foal, but they might ask for money for helping register the foal (or they might not).


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## brighteyes (3 June 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			The registering (if pregnant, I'm still not sure!) Wouldn't need a covering certificate as the foal would be PRE fusion with BAPSH. Unfortunately as Hermosa is not graded the foal can't be registered as PRE.
		
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And if it is an ordinary colt or filly (i.e. not breeding material) the breeding won't matter.


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## brighteyes (3 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			The vet is booked for tomorrow. YO sent a text this morning asking, "Has she been around any stallions?" So yeah, she's noticed too. F*cking great.

She used to run a stud, so she knows her way around a foal. If the horse can stay put, she will. If YO doesn't want to deal, I would rather send her to Quadro's yard (even if it is over an hour away) than back to the breeder. I guess it's good knowing there is a plan B. You guys are right -- if she's back at the stud, there's a risk of her getting knocked up again. You only make that mistake once.

Fingers crossed this flapping is for nought, and it's just the grass.

The vet receptionist did giggle a bit when she asked what the appointment was for, and I replied flatly, "The horse might be pregnant."

Having booked my vet appointment, I'm going back to bed, where I plan on staying for the rest of the day.

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. Should have got horse checked. Like I said, I foolishly thought the breeder knew what she was doing, as she's been doing it forever. I'm aware that was not clever of me.
		
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I'm not in the least bit criticising you - and after what just happened, never mind this unexpected turn of events, it'd be damned cruel. I'd go to bed too - with chocolate. Your brain must be worn out.

Reading your wonderful tribute to Gypsum, and the heavens and earth you had to move for her, I reckon you'd find a foal to be a walk in the park!

Don't be too harsh on yourself x


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## ITPersonnage (3 June 2021)

The trouble with (some) horsey people is that they can have all the confidence in the world (I'm thinking of the breeder here, not you) and trusting, nice people like you (?) and me get taken in by this and assume there is good reason for the behaviour. Unfortunately this can have repercussions and  consequences but I'm sure you aren't the first (I KNOW you're not from bitter experience) and you probably won't be the last.

But you never know, a foal may be a positive thing, but it's a shock and unplanned so it's no surprise you're taking a while to come round to it. On the other hand, it may be clover reaction and plan A resumes. I agree with brighteyes too, you will no doubt cope whichever outcome. Enjoy your sleep, it'll be good to process all the stuff you've been through, and rest easy knowing that at least Gypsum will be having a little giggle to herself...


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## Caol Ila (3 June 2021)

Would a mare start showing quickly?

These photos were from about two weeks ago:


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## Sussexbythesea (3 June 2021)

Although very daunting and especially in light of your recent loss not the best timing I’d be really excited. Whatever happens you’ll deal with it and you might find it’s an amazing experience you’ll be glad to have. Certainly I’ve known a few BOGOFs In real life and on here and once over the initial shock it’s been something the owner (and everyone else on the yard!) has ultimately enjoyed.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (3 June 2021)

CI I had an adult that didnt show at all, had her 6 weeks, did her 1st xc schooling on the Sunday in temps of high 20s, had a sj lesson on the Tuesday, hacked Weds and Thurs and got greeted with a foal on the Friday morning!  Yes, I've bred a few too. My vet only said 10 days before that I needed to cut feed and up the work....
That said, I'll keep fingers crossed that it's just non foal stuff  causing the issue....
Xx


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## Palindrome (3 June 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			The registering (if pregnant, I'm still not sure!) Wouldn't need a covering certificate as the foal would be PRE fusion with BAPSH. Unfortunately as Hermosa is not graded the foal can't be registered as PRE.
		
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But could still be registered as a part bred if the stallion is registered and graded?


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## shortstuff99 (3 June 2021)

Palindrome said:



			But could still be registered as a part bred if the stallion is registered and graded?
		
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She would be anyway as out of a Spanish mare regardless of sire, so at least won't be held to ransom for a covering certificate.


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## hobo (3 June 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			We had a s BOGOF recently on our yard. Cob mare bought in March. Foal appeared overnight with zero warning. Owner reactions went from 'OMFG noooooooo'  to 'awwww she's soooooo cute'; and from 'what a nightmare' to 'how exciting' in about 6 hours.

For your peace of mind, I hope she's ok. But if not, it will be fine in the end anyway x
		
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Amber You have reminded me we need updated pictures that was that itsy bitsy cutiest foal I have ever seen if I remember correctly.


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## Casey76 (3 June 2021)

I’ve got everything possible crossed it’s just an excess of good grass and not an incipient foal.

I can quiet understand how the thought on an unexpected foal can be terrifying.  I think people get caught up in the ‘Aww cute foal” madness of spring and summer and forget how having an unexpected foal can be frustrating.  That it’s not just a case of BOGOF, that it’s also extra vet and feed bills, concern over livery situations and are they equipped to handle a foal, putting training plans on hold, ensuring physical and mental health of the foal etc.

It’s one thing to plan and account for a foal from the start, it’s another thing altogether to have one thrust up one you.

So... chin up.  Get the vet out and get things confirmed one way or another, and *try* not to worry too much in the middle.


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## Caol Ila (3 June 2021)

It just screws up everything. I'm meant to be looking at a rescue cob on Sunday, something I could ride while the filly grows up.  Supporting _three _horses did not factor into this plan.  

I'm not keen on sending filly back to breeder for all the reasons outlined by many of you guys, unless I were to sell her to breeder, in which case it wouldn't be my problem anymore. God knows if breeder would be cooperative.

I could also sell her, in foal, on the open market. 

I could hang in there, hope mare and foal are healthy and that current yard will help me deal at not an outrageous price, and crack on with plan to get riding horse. Or ask if Quadro will help, but I couldn't be there that often as she's about 50 miles away. While the filly could not do much this year anyway, she will be able to do less with a foal at foot. It would be a bit of basic ground handling but more or less leaving her to raise baby, right?  If healthy, foal could sell at a reasonable price.

I really really hope this is a grass baby.


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## Michen (3 June 2021)

I really don’t understand why not being able to do much with the mare will be a big issue, you wouldn’t have been doing much anyway. It will delay things by a few months.

I am sure the price you’d get for selling the foal if you did it quickly would recoup what you spend on keeping/having it.

If this is all such a disaster do you really want a second horse at all (rescue cob) as if that went wrong it sounds like you wouldn’t be able to cope with it very well. And I do understand- as the owner of a second horse that’s gone wrong that I’ll probably get sound and sell, but thats just how it goes with horses.


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## scats (3 June 2021)

Try not to panic just yet.  She might not be in foal at all and then all this worry is for nothing.  But if she is, still go and see the cob on Sunday and work from there.
I imagine you are a mass of emotions at the moment (understandably) after Gypsum, so everything is going to feel a bit overwhelming.  Don’t panic, just take the next couple of days as they come.


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## Caol Ila (3 June 2021)

I guess a lot of it depends on the YO. If she says they cannot deal with a foal, I've got to hustle.... again.

Three horses when you wanted two seems like.... a lot. It's not one of your two horses going lame or colicking or whatever. It's a whole 'nother f**cikng horse! I don't get how that's hard to understand. And while livery yards expect to deal with lameness or what not, most of them do not have the time, facilities, etc to deal with foals, understandably. And don't think I haven't already rung every local stud I could find. I did, when Gypsum's yard told me to move her, and I was looking for youngstock livery. Exercise in futility. None of the studs are even willing to entertain the idea of a livery.


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## shortstuff99 (3 June 2021)

Whatever happens, I know everyone here would support you and help however we can.


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## CanteringCarrot (3 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I guess a lot of it depends on the YO. If she says they cannot deal with a foal, I've got to hustle.... again.

Three horses when you wanted two seems like.... a lot. I don't get how that's hard to understand.
		
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I can understand. I toss around the buying a young one, so that would put me at 2, and that seems like a lot! I can only imagine a surprise 3. However, you'd likely he able to sell on the foal for a decent price, so it wouldn't have to be a permanent or long-term 3. 

A lot of stuff up in the air at once, but hopefully tomorrow's vet visit will help so you can begin to plan either way.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (3 June 2021)

Most livery yards won’t charge extra for a foal at foot. The foal is living in the stable with mum, the foal isn’t really eating much other than the milk bar from mum, so no extra grazing required and no extra stable. Mare may need a small paddock for a the first month until foal is big enough to go in the herd, that’s what happened on my last yard.


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## Sandstone1 (3 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			It just screws up everything. I'm meant to be looking at a rescue cob on Sunday, something I could ride while the filly grows up.  Supporting _three _horses did not factor into this plan. 

I'm not keen on sending filly back to breeder for all the reasons outlined by many of you guys, unless I were to sell her to breeder, in which case it wouldn't be my problem anymore. God knows if breeder would be cooperative.

I could also sell her, in foal, on the open market. 

I could hang in there, hope mare and foal are healthy and that current yard will help me deal at not an outrageous price, and crack on with plan to get riding horse. Or ask if Quadro will help, but I couldn't be there that often as she's about 50 miles away. While the filly could not do much this year anyway, she will be able to do less with a foal at foot. It would be a bit of basic ground handling but more or less leaving her to raise baby, right?  If healthy, foal could sell at a reasonable price.

I really really hope this is a grass baby. 

Click to expand...

I would take a deep breath,   You have just lost a much loved horse who you have had a very long time.   Your other mare may not even be in foal.    If it were me I would get a vet out asap to find out if you even have a problem.  Then worry about what you have to do once you know for sure.  In the meantime try not to panic and grieve for your other horse.   Look after yourself and try not to panic, worrying about something you do not even know is a issue yet is just a waste of energy.


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## Michen (3 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I guess a lot of it depends on the YO. If she says they cannot deal with a foal, I've got to hustle.... again.

Three horses when you wanted two seems like.... a lot. It's not one of your two horses going lame or colicking or whatever. It's a whole 'nother f**cikng horse! I don't get how that's hard to understand. And while livery yards expect to deal with lameness or what not, most of them do not have the time, facilities, etc to deal with foals, understandably. And don't think I haven't already rung every local stud I could find. I did, when Gypsum's yard told me to move her, and I was looking for youngstock livery. Exercise in futility. None of the studs are even willing to entertain the idea of a livery.
		
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There’s literally no studs around you where you can send the mare to foal, and where it can stay until weaned?

it doesn’t need to be particularly near surely?

yes it’s a whole other “f****** horse” but it’s one you can sell as soon as it’s weaned so it’s a short term problem.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (3 June 2021)

Michen said:



			There’s literally no studs around you where you can send the mare to foal, and where it can stay until weaned?

it doesn’t need to be particularly near surely?

yes it’s a whole other “f****** horse” but it’s one you can sell as soon as it’s weaned so it’s a short term problem.
		
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There are quite a few studs in Scotland round about the central belt if you go looking.


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## Caol Ila (3 June 2021)

Michen said:



			There’s literally no studs around you where you can send the mare to foal, and where it can stay until weaned?

it doesn’t need to be particularly near surely?

yes it’s a whole other “f****** horse” but it’s one you can sell as soon as it’s weaned so it’s a short term problem.
		
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Nope. I tried my ass off for youngstock livery and got bupkes. Phoned or emailed maybe a dozen studs. And that was for a two year old filly, not a teenage mum with a foal at foot.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (3 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Nope. I tried my ass off for youngstock livery and got bupkes. Phoned or emailed maybe a dozen studs. And that was for a two year old filly, not a teenage mum with a foal at foot.
		
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Looking to foal one down might be a different story, once you know if she is then contact them again. They knownfoaling down is temporary and they will get mares in to do so.  However there isn’t a panic to be had which is what you are doing right now. You don’t know if she is and you haven’t spoken to your YO so calm yourself down, you are doing yourself no favours.


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## Palindrome (3 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Nope. I tried my ass off for youngstock livery and got bupkes. Phoned or emailed maybe a dozen studs. And that was for a two year old filly, not a teenage mum with a foal at foot.
		
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It might be different if you send the mare for foaling there, the big AI centers you can generally send your mare for foaling and they charge you livery for until the foal is weaned if you wish to do so.


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## Michen (3 June 2021)

I’m sure if you widen your search, even if the yard is an hour or two away, you’ll find somewhere suitable.


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## Sandstone1 (3 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Nope. I tried my ass off for youngstock livery and got bupkes. Phoned or emailed maybe a dozen studs. And that was for a two year old filly, not a teenage mum with a foal at foot.
		
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But you dont even know if there is a foal yet!  Try to relax as you are getting ahead of yourself worrying about something that may well not even exist.


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## Cinnamontoast (3 June 2021)

I’m so sorry about Gypsum 😢 

Please try to relax, even if there is a foal, it isn’t the end of the world. I know it’s common practise with many breeders to put a filly in foal at 3 and then back once the foal is weaned. Bloody painful when unexpected.


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## Trouper (4 June 2021)

You're trying to cross bridges that aren't even in sight yet while floundering in a great big Gypsum-sized hole.    Please just stop and wait for the vet.
If she is in foal she looks like a while off yet so you have time to find somewhere for her - even a private place where someone is experienced might be able to help if you put out the call.
I'm still putting my money on the grass!!


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## Quadro (4 June 2021)

I have a mare due end of July, so we will be on foal watch any way then. Literally makes no difference to do two at once! I will hopefully then have a mare and foal for them to go out with.


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## Ambers Echo (4 June 2021)

I do get that it is overwhelming and stressful. A quick glance at any 'should I put my mare in foal' thread shows you the reasons why! So your reaction makes perfect sense and is perfectly valid. Plus you are grieving and probably at your least resilient right now. This was clearly NOT the plan. At the sane time what everyione is saying it also true -  the universe laughs at plans and life sometimes chucks in massive curve balls and people get through it. It will all be ok. Just take a deep breath, wait for the vet and then - if a little 'Gypsum's Gift or Gypsum's Last Laugh' is imminent then a) it will be magical in many ways and b) you will have plenty of options. You don't need to game every scenario. One step at a time. Hugs to you x


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## Fluffypiglet (4 June 2021)

Sorry that you're going through such a stressful time and fingers crossed for the vet visit today. Hoping that it's just spring grass belly 🤞😊


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## Mrs. Jingle (4 June 2021)

Good luck for today, I hope the vet gives you the news you want to hear. If not, you will get through this and what seems like a complete disaster for you right now, could well turn into a very positive experience further down the line.


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## Tarragon (4 June 2021)

I hope you get the outcome you want today, but, like Mrs Jingle says, I also think that sometimes you can be pleasantly surprised with the unexpected!


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## Ellietotz (4 June 2021)

All fingers crossed for you today!

P.S. The mare is beautiful by the way!


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## Equine_Dream (4 June 2021)

Oh OP you've been through it haven't you. I'm so sorry for the loss of your beautiful Gypsum. No wonder your nerves are frazzled. 
Right now you must feel so overwhelmed with it all but as hard as it is try not to think about the "what ifs" until you know what you are dealing with.
Whatever the outcome of the vet today, it will all be ok. You will find a solution one way or another. 
Op in the nicest way possible you've already been through hell and back loosing your mare. You can deal with this! But I'm worried with how stressed you are sounding in your posts. Do you have support around you right now? Please don't forget to take care of yourself in all this. 
Let us know what the vet says


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## PapaverFollis (4 June 2021)

Good luck for today.  I can understand the stressing.  Just... one step at a time.  Fingers crossed for a grass belly.


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## Red-1 (4 June 2021)

Good luck for today, fingers crossed. X


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## The Fuzzy Furry (4 June 2021)

Red-1 said:



			Good luck for today, fingers crossed. X
		
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What she said!


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## CanteringCarrot (4 June 2021)

Everything crossed for you!


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## Pearlsasinger (4 June 2021)

Michen said:



			But surely stallions don’t know their own daughters so the inevitable happens...

that seems absolutely bonkers.

but I know nothing about breeding so maybe it’s common practice? Or completely irresponsible if risking a deformed foal.

suppose it happens in the wild though so maybe foal will be fine?
		
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Some breeders intentionally 'line-breed' which to you and me is in-breeding.  Have a look at Welsh Cobs breeding.  I hope you get the news you want, OP.


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## Michen (4 June 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Some breeders intentionally 'line-breed' which to you and me is in-breeding.  Have a look at Welsh Cobs breeding.
		
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Yep discovered that a few months ago but I didn’t realise it was intentionally done as closely as dad with daughter!!!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (4 June 2021)

Fingers crossed today eases some of your stress and let’s you know one way or the other


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## Goldenstar (4 June 2021)

Just checked in to see if the vet had been .
Fingers crossed .


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## Fjord (4 June 2021)

Fingers crossed for a greedy pony grass belly. I'm so sorry you lost your girl xxx


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## Lipglosspukka (4 June 2021)

We are all itching!


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## Breagha (4 June 2021)

Good luck x


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## ycbm (4 June 2021)

Checking in to see if you are OK CI.
.


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## Caol Ila (4 June 2021)

Pregnant. Very. Due imminently. All decisions are out of our hands because vet says she’s too far gone to move. Yard owner knows her sh1t, she’s had foals,  and she will help us deal.

Can’t f£)£££king believe it. You can’t write this stuff.


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## FinnBobs (4 June 2021)

sorry it's not the news you wanted to hear CI.  I hope all goes well with the foaling.


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## ITPersonnage (4 June 2021)

Yikes, what a shocker. And breathe... Thank **** for good YOs, best of luck with it all...


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## Hannahgb (4 June 2021)

Got everything crossed it all goes ok


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## milliepops (4 June 2021)

if the YO knows what she's doing, you're in the best place then, your mare is settled and happy, and you have help at hand. it'll be Ok, highly inconvenient sure but you may find you enjoy it just a tiny bit once the shock settles down. It's a temporary problem, i think that's the most important thing to remember.


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## FinnBobs (4 June 2021)

Oh and sending you a hug too! xx


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## I'm Dun (4 June 2021)

It will all be ok, but I'd be giving the breeders a little call to see what they will be doing.


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## Annagain (4 June 2021)

Ok, deep breath. Not the end of the world. She's with someone knowledgeable so you have a plan for the imminent arrival. Once little one is here, you make a decision about the next step. In some ways sooner rather than later is good as you lose less time.  Hope all goes well for the birth.


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## ycbm (4 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Pregnant. Very. Due imminently. All decisions are out of our hands because vet says she’s too far gone to move. Yard owner knows her sh1t, she’s had foals,  and she will help us deal.

Can’t f£)£££king believe it. You can’t write this stuff.
		
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Oh {string of unrepeatable words}

Deep breaths,  CI, you'll cope.  
.


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## Ownedby4horses (4 June 2021)

Holy Moley! At least know you know for sure and can plan accordingly, rather than just coming down one day and there being a surprise foal 🙈.

Deep Breath, everything happens for a reason, it will all work out I promise. x


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## shortstuff99 (4 June 2021)

Oh bl**day hell! At least the YO sounds like she will help you. 

Internet hugs for you, a lot to take on right now but hopefully it will all work out.


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## Midlifecrisis (4 June 2021)

Wow…..once you ve got your head around it..I saw on central Scotland livery yards a place of over 250acres offering young stock livery (and retirement/grass livery etc)..I was wondering if it was the person on here who thought she d been offering livery too cheaply a few weeks ago. I’m thinking Airdrie way but I could be wrong but might be a possibility if current livery feels unable to help long term. It’s another learning curve for you to be sure…but I for one am looking forward to the photos.


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## Ambers Echo (4 June 2021)

Well that's the first problem sorted- where she will foal. It's great that you have experienced support on hand. Thinking of you. All 3 of you! X


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## View (4 June 2021)

Oof.

Breathe. YO will help. And then you can take stock and decide what you are goi g to do.

I’m sorry you are having to deal with this, but nothing about horses is ever straightforward.  Maybe Gypsum is looking down and laughing?


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## Peregrine Falcon (4 June 2021)

Oh goodness. Once the shock has subsided I am sure excitement will kick in. Not what you were expecting but the foal will have the whole forum waiting for its appearance now!


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## PapaverFollis (4 June 2021)

Oh carpsticks.  At least YO knows her stuff and will help.   It's going to be a bit of a shock but nothing to be done except get on with it! 

Stiff gin required!


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## Shady (4 June 2021)

Oh  **********
I know it's not want you want  but If it's any consolation   I was the one who told my friend her mare was clearly pregnant when she shouldn't have been and she had screaming abdabs , as did her OH. She also has ME, limited energy and money  and the whole concept of a foal was too much for her....until the filly arrived and she was so beautiful in every way. She enjoyed every moment of watching her grow and develop into a stunning youngster who she then sold for a respectable sum to a great home. 
You're just gonna have to crack on love . xxxxx


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## Odyssey (4 June 2021)

I'm sorry that it's not the news you were hoping for, but glad that at least the yard owner knows her stuff. You must be feeling in shock, it's hard to believe that this has happened this week of all weeks, but I think you'll cope better than you expect. At least it should be a quality foal, so will be desirable when the time comes to sell.


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## PapaverFollis (4 June 2021)

😂 "screaming abdabs"  not heard that for years.


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## Amymay (4 June 2021)

It’ll be fine xxx


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## ester (4 June 2021)

A good and helpful YO at least after your previous issues.


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## YorksG (4 June 2021)

Well that's a bit of a stunner for you! Not the week you could have ever predicted, or wanted. 
You will cope, of course,  because that's what we do and you sound to have a good support network.


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## Baywonder (4 June 2021)

Oh lawks! 

Sorry you didn't get the news you were hoping for.  It will be fine, and with the help of your YO, you will come out the other side.


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## DizzyDoughnut (4 June 2021)

I'm so sorry it wasn't the news you were hoping for, but the timing seems like it's meant to be, like a final gift from Gypsum.


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## Spirit2021 (4 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Pregnant. Very. Due imminently. All decisions are out of our hands because vet says she’s too far gone to move. Yard owner knows her sh1t, she’s had foals,  and she will help us deal.

Can’t f£)£££king believe it. You can’t write this stuff.
		
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Maybe you mare  that has passed away has sent you the foal to heal your broken heart. Sorry for the previous replies I was just worried because my friend didn’t have a good experience with a breeder.  At least you have a yard owner  that is experienced so she will help you.


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## Fluffypiglet (4 June 2021)

Oh blimey! Sorry you're having such a challenging time, good job you're at the yard with an experienced YO. It's going to be a beautiful foal as Mum is gorgeous. Good luck xx


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## holeymoley (4 June 2021)

Crikey. Wow. At least you’re at a yard that has experience with foals. Good luck!


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## Emilieu (4 June 2021)

Oh. Mate. Listen, you’ve got this. An adventure. A reason to get out of bed and keep on going.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (4 June 2021)

Oops! Sorry to read this but v glad you have a clued up YO. 
Look at it another way, you can advertise as soon as it hits the ground,  all being well you can find a home (and deposit) quickly, and arrange weaning early autumn.
Sending hugs x


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## Asha (4 June 2021)

At least you are on a yard where the owner knows their stuff . Take all the help and advice you can from her. 
Take a breath.. 
Your mare is young so you couldn’t do anything with her. SOS he’s not missing out on any education. Hopefully the safe arrival of a foal bring you some joy . I will look forward to cute foal photos !


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## meleeka (4 June 2021)

Emilieu said:



			Oh. Mate. Listen, you’ve got this. An adventure. A reason to get out of bed and keep on going.
		
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Sometimes you get in life what you need, not what you necessarily want.   I can’t think of any better medicine for a broken heart than a new baby and it’ll certainly keep you focused for a while.   Hoping it’s not too long to wait (and another who’s waiting for the cute photos with excitement  )


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## nikicb (4 June 2021)

I am sorry you didn't get the answer you wanted from the vet, but you will find the strength to cope even if you don't think you can now.  I am pleased that your current y/o is experienced and will help you through the process.  Good luck, and I look forward to seeing pictures.  xx


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## eggs (4 June 2021)

Sorry this isn't the news you wanted but at least you have a knowledgeable yard owner who is willing and able to help.

I've bred a number of (planned) foals over the year and it is really quite straightforward and not as scary as you may think.  It does seem as though Gypsum is still trying to mend your broken heart.


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## eggs (4 June 2021)

Just a thought - when did Hermosa have her last flu and tet jabs?  I always tried to get them done a few weeks before the foal was due (although they were always a few weeks late) so as to give some protection to the foal.


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## CanteringCarrot (4 June 2021)

Ahhh, I was really hoping pregnant with grass and clover, not foal! But the fact that you have a supportive and experienced YO is huge. One less thing to fret about as she has to stay put and will be in experienced hands.

I suppose you've got a little distraction now, as Gympsum looks on smugly from above  

You've got this. Hermosa is young and healthy. When the foal is here, you can feel things out more and you'll have no trouble selling, I'm sure. I guess you can mark "having a foal" off of your bucket list...not that it was ever on there 😜


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## TheOldTrout (4 June 2021)

Sorry you didn't get the news you were hoping for. Baby will be lovely even if unplanned.


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## Tiddlypom (4 June 2021)

Sorry for the unwelcome news, but thank goodness for your current clued up yard owner.

It will all work out.


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## Casey76 (4 June 2021)

So sorry it wasn’t the result you were wanting or needing.

Try not to panic too much, she is in a place where the YO has some experience.  Take a breath and know that we’re all here for you.


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## DabDab (4 June 2021)

Oh dear....gotta love the way of the universe eh. PREs must be like buses - you wait ages for one and then two come along at once! 

Ah well, it will be an adventure, and while so totally not what you were after, you at least have bags of experience to draw on and deal with this.

Idle musing - I wonder if her pregnancy had anything to do with being chased out of that first herd by those couple of mares... 🤔


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## Clodagh (4 June 2021)

Oh well wow.
I adored my foal and he was the biggest timewaster on the planet. Hours just vanished. I hope he/she is everything you want. Even though you didn't want.


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## scats (4 June 2021)

Sorry it wasn’t the news you wanted...but your YO sounds like they will be able to help you out and you might see the little leggy bundle and fall madly in love!

I feel a name with some memory of Gypsum in there would be a nice little tribute.  This foal might be the distraction you need at the moment.


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## Boulty (4 June 2021)

Oh bum! Sorry that it's not what you wanted. t least you've got a plan for now & I guess you can decide the more long-term stuff like whether to keep or sell once foalie is here


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## PurBee (4 June 2021)

oh feck!
Due imminently?! She doesnt look that huge....do maiden mares carry the first one small?...my 1/2 arab 14.2 mare was a waddling balloon 6 weeks prior to foaling, it was her 7th foal.

It fab your YO knows foaling. Thats such a relief isnt it! She could have said ‘absolutely not, move her now!’....small mercies and all that.

One day at a time. Foals are soooo beautiful and a joy to care for but take up more time. However, due to bond with mum they follow her so no worries of them running out of the paddock. (My foal only escaped running after mum who escaped paddock...i almost had a heart attack....couldnt find them anywhere on my land or surroundings...my heart thudded so hard!) 

If i was closer to you i’d help you out as i’d love to do a foal again. Im sure other yard folk will be enamoured by the foal and all will keep an eye out. You can still do ground work with hermosa....foal will pick up early training via mum. Nothing too full-on sure, just general handling, movements. Amazing what my foal picked up from my handling of the mare, made headcollaring him and feet picking etc so easy.

I know it wasnt as you planned....but sometimes stuff from left field of life turn out to be great experiences when we look back. Its when we force life in just one fixed way ive always had regrets .....but the surprises of life, served a great purpose, thats hard to see at the time when they happen.

Im excited for you but also really sorry for the humdinger of a shock of change of plans. Ride the wave is all anyone can do. 
hug x


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## pixie27 (4 June 2021)

Crikey CI, I'm sorry it wasn't the news you wanted – the universe clearly has other plans for you.
You've had an absolute shocker of a week, take care of yourself.


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## Jeni the dragon (4 June 2021)

Huge hugs CI! I'm glad your yard owner sounds a really sensible sort.


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## Abi90 (4 June 2021)

As someone very guilty of catastrophising I know how you feel. Try to break it into smaller chunks:

1. You now know so can deal with it. No more second guessing
2. Your YO is experienced, is not going to kick you out, will help you with the foal
3. You probably won’t have to pay much more/if anything to have a foal at foot 
4. She would have spent most of her time in the field anyway this year, so having a foal at foot for 6 months ish won’t stop you backing her next year 
5. The foal could turn out very nicely and in the current market will be very easy to sell for a decent sum, I would think
6. You may end up really enjoying the experience 

That is not meant to be patronising at all. I just feel you are staring down a very big problem and need to talk yourself down by rationalising the situation. You’re having a roller coaster of a week so don’t beat yourself up about feeling the way you do either 

to quote The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel “everything will be alright in that end, if it’s not alright then it’s not the end”


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## LadyGascoyne (4 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Pregnant. Very. Due imminently. All decisions are out of our hands because vet says she’s too far gone to move. Yard owner knows her sh1t, she’s had foals,  and she will help us deal.

Can’t f£)£££king believe it. You can’t write this stuff.
		
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You really have had such a time of it. I honestly don’t know what to say but sending you a massive hug.

I wish I could help somehow but you’re miles away from us.


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## Merrymoles (4 June 2021)

Heck CI only just caught up with this but you have had lots of very sensible responses on here and I agree that you should take a deep breath and not stress too much as it sounds as though your yard will cope fine when the time comes.

It has been a strange fact throughout my life that a death has often been shortly followed by a birth - in humans and animals - and I do think it is nature's way of helping us to cope with loss. Have another hug


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## Tarragon (4 June 2021)

Had to log back in to check on the news .... and at least you now know!! and you know who the Daddy is. 
Not what you wanted to hear, but with the help of your fabulous YO it could be a wonderful experience in its own right. 
Have you contacted the stud yet? I hope they don't cause you any more worries. 
I hope that it all goes smoothly for you and the mare, and also hope to see the beautiful foal photos at some point!


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## InklePickle (4 June 2021)

It' will be fine, I had a bogof 9 years ago. Everything went without a hitch and my YO at the time was a great help. I know it's not what you wanted but congrats anyway


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## rabatsa (4 June 2021)

Hugs, it is a bummer.

Congratulations you are having a baby, well not you personally but you anyway.


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## Wishfilly (4 June 2021)

I know for me when I have been through a lot of stress, my resilience to deal with problems gets lower. And given the hard time you had with Hermosa initially, plus losing Gypsum so recently, I can imagine how insurmountable this feels. 

All I can suggest is taking all the help that is offered to you, and doing the best you can. You will find a way, and as others have said, it might end up being a good thing. Foals are lovely, and I know I'd love to breed one day, but I also know it would have to be at a time when I was pretty much stress free otherwise- so I can see why you're upset. 

Good luck with everything, and I hope you get an absolutely wonderful foal out of all of this at least!


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## Apercrumbie (4 June 2021)

Oh fiddlesticks, I am sorry as I know that this isn't what you want.

However I am so glad to hear your YO is experienced with foals - that must be a weight off your mind. At least she is 3 so a bit more time in the field won't set you back. 

You can cope, all will be ok and I think in a couple of months time you will feel so much better and might even enjoy parts of it. Until then I know it's a rubbish situation, but I promise you that it will get better. Good luck, I hope you feel able to keep HHO updated as we would love to hear your news.


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## Red-1 (4 June 2021)

I am sorry for the fact that is is the news you didn't want. I believe you will deal with this, and that the foal will give you some delight, even if you do then sell quickly. 

Hugs. X


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## splashgirl45 (4 June 2021)

what a shock for you.  perhaps Gypsum is sending you something to focus on....hope all goes well and looking forward to photos when baby is here


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## OldNag (4 June 2021)

That's a shock - and bloody wotsits,  what was the breeder thinking??!!!

But, you'll manage. You've been through the mill I know, and it's probably the last thing you need,  but it sounds like you have a lovely setup with a knowledgeable yard owner so I'm sure all will turn out fine.

Have you got any whisky? xx


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## Sandstone1 (4 June 2021)

Sorry its not the news you wanted or expected, at least you now know what you are dealing with and can now plan to a degree what to do.
worst comes to the worst you have possibly 8 months where you cant do much with your mare, you can sell the foal if you need to or who knows the foal could turn out to be fantastic.   Its too late for ifs and buts now.   Sometimes these things happen for a reason.


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## Griffin (4 June 2021)

I am sorry it wasn't the news you wanted and you have had such an emotionally draining time.

However, it may turn out to be a great adventure for you and at least you are somewhere with a YO willing to help.  I totally agree with @Wishfilly , when you have been under a lot of stress, your resilience will be low and that makes everything seem worse.

Hugs.


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## Mrs. Jingle (4 June 2021)

I am also very sorry that this was not the news you wanted to hear.  I dont think I have often commented on your threads, but have followed all you have been through, you have dealt with so much, I think you are far stronger than you realise. You will get through this, your YO will help you, you will not have to move her.

 I am very confident a few months down the line you will look back, look at your beautiful foal (I mean how could it NOT be beautiful, your mare is stunning!) and will feel more relaxed, less stressed and more happy with the way things have worked out. Stay strong Mrs! I for one can't wait to see the foal!


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## Millie-Rose (4 June 2021)

PurBee said:



			oh feck!
Due imminently?! She doesnt look that huge....do maiden mares carry the first one small?...my 1/2 arab 14.2 mare was a waddling balloon 6 weeks prior to foaling, it was her 7th foal.

It fab your YO knows foaling. Thats such a relief isnt it! She could have said ‘absolutely not, move her now!’....small mercies and all that.

One day at a time. Foals are soooo beautiful and a joy to care for but take up more time. However, due to bond with mum they follow her so no worries of them running out of the paddock. (My foal only escaped running after mum who escaped paddock...i almost had a heart attack....couldnt find them anywhere on my land or surroundings...my heart thudded so hard!) 

If i was closer to you i’d help you out as i’d love to do a foal again. Im sure other yard folk will be enamoured by the foal and all will keep an eye out. You can still do ground work with hermosa....foal will pick up early training via mum. Nothing too full-on sure, just general handling, movements. Amazing what my foal picked up from my handling of the mare, made headcollaring him and feet picking etc so easy.

I know it wasnt as you planned....but sometimes stuff from left field of life turn out to be great experiences when we look back. Its when we force life in just one fixed way ive always had regrets .....but the surprises of life, served a great purpose, thats hard to see at the time when they happen.

Im excited for you but also really sorry for the humdinger of a shock of change of plans. Ride the wave is all anyone can do. 
hug x
		
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My maiden was never huge. If you didn't know her you'd have said just a slight grass belly however I was so used to her being eventing fit I could see how different she was. When foal was born the first thing we all said was how did that fit in there! They tend to be bigger with subsequent foals as everything gets stretched.


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## brighteyes (4 June 2021)

Abi90 said:



			As someone very guilty of catastrophising I know how you feel. Try to break it into smaller chunks:

1. You now know so can deal with it. No more second guessing
2. Your YO is experienced, is not going to kick you out, will help you with the foal
3. You probably won’t have to pay much more/if anything to have a foal at foot
4. She would have spent most of her time in the field anyway this year, so having a foal at foot for 6 months ish won’t stop you backing her next year
5. The foal could turn out very nicely and in the current market will be very easy to sell for a decent sum, I would think
6. You may end up really enjoying the experience
		
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Oi, you forgot
7. There's the HHO Forum here! We have our collective sleeves rolled up, ready with our wealth of 'advice', virtual alcohol and cookies and the matchsticks at the ready for the foalwatch. We've done dozens of them!

I'm going to celebrate the news in a reckless and devil-may-care fashion. Chin up. Hope it's a filly xxx


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## brighteyes (4 June 2021)

Anyway, who _is_ the daddy?


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## Britestar (4 June 2021)

That's a shock for you.  Take time to process,  accept all the help offered. 
One the small one arrives, enjoy them both.  By this time next year she'll be ready to break.  You can decide later whether to sell or keep the foal.


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## Goldenstar (4 June 2021)

That’s a bummer .
I was so hoping she had eaten too much .
You can only go with the flow now and you can sell the little person at weanling ( if you want to by then )
You will have to try to find out who the father is , I am not sure how you do that the vet may know .
The person you bought her from needs a slap.


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## shortstuff99 (4 June 2021)

If you want some specialist advice or how to register the foal or what to do about the stud then contact Mary at BAPSH she is very knowledgeable and will be able to help you.

Otherwise, I know it all seems so overwhelming right now but you will be able to get through it.


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## Xtra (4 June 2021)

I know its a shock but I think when its sunk in you will see it as a good thing.  I think it will help heal your heart over Gypsum.  I have been where you are and I thought it was the end of the world but in reality I loved having him around.

Have everything crossed for a smooth foaling.  Despite my panic and inexperience mine was fine.  Its almost like mares are designed to have foals  .  Mine was also from a young unbroken mare and I still have her at 18 years old.


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## MrsMozart (4 June 2021)

I'm late to this and have no wise words, just sending you many hugs lass.


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## Caol Ila (4 June 2021)

I found videos buried deep on the breeder's Facebook page of the filly hanging out with two colts of the same age in July last year. Didn't see Dad in the videos. Would a stallion even allow colts to cuddle up with fillies in his herd? Does that rule him out?

I don't know what to do about breeder or registration or anything. I just don't want breeder to be weird and try making life more complicated than it already is.  I know she has no legs to stand on, but I can't deal with hassle.

I've enjoyed all the BOGOF threads we've had over the years. I never thought it would be ME.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (4 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I found videos buried deep on the breeder's Facebook page of the filly hanging out with two colts of the same age in July last year. Didn't see Dad in the videos. Would a stallion even allow colts to cuddle up with fillies in his herd? Does that rule him out?

I don't know what to do about breeder or registration or anything. I just don't want breeder to be weird and try making life more complicated than it already is.  I know she has no legs to stand on, but I can't deal with hassle.

I've enjoyed all the BOGOF threads we've had over the years. I never thought it would be ME.
		
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If she is pure bred and registered,  then you ask the breeder for a covering slip. They probably wont be able to give you one as service notices/books have to be submitted usually by the end of the year. But definitely make them aware that YOU have a foal on the way from the filly YOU purchased and that you need their full assistance to enable you to register the foal when it arrives. 

You need to speak to the UK studbook (email prob best) to explain you have an unexpected item in the bagging area and would they help, do this If the stud won't play ball

Likely as the idiot breeder runs hers as a group, the potential sire will need blood typing, as also your foal prior to any registration. Not difficult to get done but adds to costs.

If you dont want to register as a purebred,  you can find out if breed have a part bred register, or just register the foal with any indeterminate society, like the BHS for passporting.  You'll need to get passport done this year.

Time to have a think xx


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## Spotherisk (4 June 2021)

I think you will need to involve the breeder if you want to register as a purebred?

oops sorry cross post with FF!


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## ycbm (4 June 2021)

I don't think you can register a PRE purebred unless the mare is graded?

It will be a lovely foal and should be worth a fair bit anyway,  not everyone wants to do PRE only competitions,  and a lot of the imports are unregistered.
.


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## shortstuff99 (4 June 2021)

ycbm said:



			I don't think you can register a PRE purebred unless the mare is graded?

It will be a lovely foal and should be worth a fair bit anyway,  not everyone wants to do PRE only competitions,  and a lot of the imports are unregistered.
.
		
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Yes she would need to be graded for PRE, from what I can remember from earlier posts Hermosa is registered as PRE Fusion as her dam was also not graded.

She can be registered as PRE fusion without a covering certificate I believe but would need to check with BAPSH. It would definitely be worth doing as there are showing class and BD leagues for PRE fusions and so would raise the foals worth if you wanted to sell.


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## Jules111 (4 June 2021)

You've really been through so much recently. Hopefully a surprise baby will turn out to be a complete blessing. If mare is due to foal imminently there will be only a short delay to you getting started with her. Hopefully weaning will be successfully complete and she'll be ready to get going with your original plans in the new year. I hope you have enough support around you, there are lots of people here who are happy to be a source of help and advice. Virtual hugs, chocolate and wine.


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## brighteyes (4 June 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			You need to speak to the UK studbook (email prob best) to explain _*you have an unexpected item in the bagging area *_and would they help, do this If the stud won't play ball
		
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Hahahahahaha


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## joelb (4 June 2021)

Not surprised by the outcome as I looked back yesterday at the first picture you posted on her welcome thread.

Not the same but I took my little dog to vets once with what I thought was an ear infection, vet raised a brow, popped her on scanner and hey presto there were 3 near term puppies. I was pysically sick with shock when I got home as hadn't suspected a thing. She popped them 10 days later all safe and sound. My point is, I was initially mortified but I very quickly woman'd up and literally loved every bit of it, from delivering them to watching them grow and develop their characters....literally the best experience I've ever had. So lovely they're all still here 4 years later as I couldn't part with them. 

Your experienced YO sounds a blessing and the mare settled and happy so things are hopefully not the disaster you feel right now. You've had a tough week but hopefully, once you've had time to process, you will get an epiphany and be able to semi-enjoy a once in a lifetime experience.


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## Caol Ila (4 June 2021)

I had her vetted back in February, and the vet missed this.


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## YorksG (4 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I had her vetted back in February, and the vet missed this.
		
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To be fair to the vet, unless the vet was asked to check, or believed that she'd run with males, there would be little to alert them...


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## Red-1 (4 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I had her vetted back in February, and the vet missed this.
		
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A pregnancy test isn't part of any vetting I have had done, I suspect you would have needed to ask for one specifically? Maybe the vet should have asked if the mare had been near an entire? Not sure that has ever arisen in any vetting I have had done.

ETA - Ooops, cross posted with YorksG.


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## Caol Ila (4 June 2021)

It seems bleeding obvious now, but neither the vet nor I were being as swiched on as we should have been. I feel like such an idiot.


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## Shilasdair (4 June 2021)

You say she was running with colts - colts can be fertile as young as 6 months of age...

I wouldn't worry too much - when foals are at foot you normally don't pay livery for them - and when weaned you can sell him or her.

It'll be fine.


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## Jules111 (4 June 2021)

CI please don't be so hard on yourself. There are so many obvious things we "should" have spotted with hindsight. I've twice bought mares from sellers who had breeding stallions. It's never occurred to me to ask if the mare had run with them.  It just seems obvious that most people would take all reasonable measures to avoid them being anywhere near each other. Both mares were vetted and at no point did the vet ask about a potential pregnancy. You trusted the person selling your girl as a mare to be started under saddle, if anybody should be embarrassed by this situation it should be the person you bought her from.


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## Caol Ila (4 June 2021)

I guess your brain doesn't let you believe that an experienced breeder with an established stud would be that stupid, even if you can see that they are. Well, mine clearly didn't. 

Hermosa and I are going to have a talk about birth control. She wouldn't be the first knocked-up teenager from Barrhead.

She's not ANCCE registered. Her mother was undersized so didn't make the grade. Hermosa is registered with BAPSH as a PRE Fusion. I guess that makes it a little easier? The Spanish studbook sounds like a faff.


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## SatansLittleHelper (4 June 2021)

CI, I really feel for you with everything you are going through BUT you absolutely can do this..!!!!
I don't suppose it will be easy but you bought a lovely filly and I'm sure her foal will be equally as lovely...therefore completely sellable when it comes to weaning if that's what you decide


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## Nicnac (4 June 2021)

Oh gosh buggerbollox and congratulations!  Crikey what a week you've had.  Gin, chocolate and sleep this weekend.  Rescue cob will give you some chill time so don't write him off.  Your yard sounds perfect and saw an earlier, very kind, offer for a place to take your baby for a while.


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## Kat (4 June 2021)

Oh I am sorry it wasn't the result you hoped for but I believe that in future you will probably look back and see this as a blessing. 

The mare is young and healthy, you have an experienced and supportive YO. It could be so much worse! 



DizzyDoughnut said:



			I'm so sorry it wasn't the news you were hoping for, but the timing seems like it's meant to be, like a final gift from Gypsum.
		
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And that's a name sorted "Gypsum's Gift"


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## Lyle (5 June 2021)

Really sorry to hear it's not the outcome you wanted. however, she's only a young mare and the foal will be weaned before you know it, and you can crack on. Keep us updated!


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## Dave's Mam (5 June 2021)

Ohh.  I really hoped it was grass, but also sort of foal.  I have no knowledge but have to say don't be hard on yourself & with help this will be ok.


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## CanteringCarrot (5 June 2021)

As far as the breeder is considered, some people are just...relaxed. They may be aware of such things happening but don't care so much snd deal with it "if" and "when" like it's no problem. I come across horse people like this, and I am sometimes envious of this  because I over think the "if" and "when" that is likely to never happen because I have several precautions in place  I mean, what is it like to not think and fret?

A pregnancy check isn't standard ops in a PPE for a filly or mare. It would be something you'd have to specify or the mare would have to be glaringly pregnant. Youngsters also can go through various fugly (bless them) phases including a pot belly weaker looking phase, in some cases, so it might even be thought of less. I can totally see a vet "missing" this and it wouldn't make me think any less of them, tbh.

I wonder what it'll be! Colt or filly...and what color. It's possible that you might be totally in love


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## Goldenstar (5 June 2021)

Can’t f£)£££king believe it. You can’t write this stuff.[/QUOTE]


Caol Ila said:



			I had her vetted back in February, and the vet missed this.
		
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A pregnancy check if not part of a vetting ( although I am sure it is done for broodmares being sold in foal ) .
In February there would nothing a vet could spot, and if you had flagged up to him what the owner said to you prior to examination he could have advised you , perhaps he could have done a blood test at that stage or the owner might have allowed him to put his arm in .
CI , I am very angry on your behalf you have been taken by one of these odd horse people with crack pot ideas ideas she covered herself from any recourse you might have had against her .


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## Rosemary28 (5 June 2021)

Oh CI, I’m sorry it’s not the news you wanted. I have nothing helpful to say except I’m thinking of you x


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## Trouper (5 June 2021)

Am so late to this news and am sorry it is not what you were hoping for.  I was so wrong on the last "foal-speculation" thread and, clearly, wrong on this one too.
However - deep breath -grab all the help you can and try not to have too many sleepless nights.   Can you get a camera set up to your phone to keep tabs on her as D-Day approaches (oh crikey - just realised what I have typed.  D-day is 6 June - tomorrow!!)
My friend, whose maiden mare foaled last year, found a FB Foaling Group (I think FB) which she found very helpful as everything got to the exciting stage.
If you have the strength and energy keep us posted on progress.


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## brighteyes (5 June 2021)

When are you going to start with the udder pics?


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## Marnie (5 June 2021)

Thinking of you - I've been there with a BOGOF and know what a shock it is and it takes a while to process x


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## Shilasdair (5 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I guess your brain doesn't let you believe that an experienced breeder with an established stud would be that stupid, even if you can see that they are. Well, mine clearly didn't. 

*Hermosa and I are going to have a talk about birth control. She wouldn't be the first knocked-up teenager from Barrhead.*

She's not ANCCE registered. Her mother was undersized so didn't make the grade. Hermosa is registered with BAPSH as a PRE Fusion. I guess that makes it a little easier? The Spanish studbook sounds like a faff.
		
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  You need to talk to the father too - and start thinking about claiming 'foal support'.  

No matter whether the foal is registered or not, the current market for horses is strong so you should be able to sell him/her, should you wish to.


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## Shilasdair (5 June 2021)

And for those who are unsure about the difference between the 'grass belly' and the 'foal belly' in photos  - it's not the size, it's the location.   
Foal bellies are further back on the horse's frame, and can be asymmetrical - in fact the foal can move from side to side in the mare.


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## Dyllymoo (5 June 2021)

I'm so sorry you have all this to deal with.

I do hope once the shock subsides a bit that you will enjoy it possibly.

Glad your YO is clued up though that's a great positive x


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## maya2008 (5 June 2021)

Just wanted to say - we bought a little companion a couple of months ago… turned out we bought one and a half! No suitable fencing, no YO on hand, two more-than-full-time jobs between us, five other ponies and two children to care for. To say we had a few days of actual panic would be an understatement! But we took her on, so here we are. The panic recedes after a while, and you have help and knowledge on hand. It will be fine!  

My old NF somehow sent us her replacement (similar colour and size NF who came available from a breeder we know and like).  She cheered up my old horse no end and has been the first equine I have managed to bond with since my old girl retired. 

I hope this little one is your ray of sunshine.


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## shortstuff99 (5 June 2021)

Not having to deal with ANCCE really does make your life easier (and cheaper!). 

You seem like a strong women I'm sure you will be able to end up taking this in your stride.


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## Caol Ila (5 June 2021)

Will BAPSH register it even we we're not sure who the father is? I'm about 95% sure it's one of two half brothers but we will never know for sure. There's video evidence from last July of her in a field with those two entire colts -- one two-year old and one yearling -- and she's really pally with them. They're like a wee gang. If the sire is in the field, he's out of the frame as he's not showing up on the video.

So teen dad might need a talking to as well.

The vet yesterday said this is the third unexpected pregnancy she's seen. This week!


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## shortstuff99 (5 June 2021)

I believe you can do,

The long explanation is here https://bapsh.co.uk/pre-fusion-horse-registration-into-main-section-or-appendix-a/

But Mary is so experienced it might be best to ring her.


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## Wishfilly (5 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Will BAPSH register it even we we're not sure who the father is? I'm about 95% sure it's one of two half brothers but we will never know for sure. There's video evidence from last July of her in a field with those two entire colts -- one two-year old and one yearling -- and she's really pally with them. They're like a wee gang. If the sire is in the field, he's out of the frame as he's not showing up on the video.

So teen dad might need a talking to as well.

The vet yesterday said this is the third unexpected pregnancy she's seen. This week!
		
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I'm not sure about registration, but theoretically if you could get hair or blood samples from the colts, you'd be able to find out who the father is. This would be expensive, but not excessively so. I'd only do it if necessary, but assuming the colts are still at the stud, it would be possible to find out, I believe?


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## palo1 (5 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Will BAPSH register it even we we're not sure who the father is? I'm about 95% sure it's one of two half brothers but we will never know for sure. There's video evidence from last July of her in a field with those two entire colts -- one two-year old and one yearling -- and she's really pally with them. They're like a wee gang. If the sire is in the field, he's out of the frame as he's not showing up on the video.

So teen dad might need a talking to as well.

The vet yesterday said this is the third unexpected pregnancy she's seen. This week!
		
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Do you have an idea of when the foal may appear @Caol Ila ?  I am so sorry you have this additional worry on top of your grief by the way. I hope you are able to find time to try to relax and process both events.


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## Caol Ila (5 June 2021)

Vet thinks the foal is due any day.

Teen mum says hi to her HHO fan club.


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## alibali (5 June 2021)

I know it's not what you hoped or planned for but at least you're unlikely to have much time to dwell on the sadder events of this week. My fingers are firmly crossed for a healthy foal and mother and a nice easy foaling for you all


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## Lindylouanne (5 June 2021)

She is beautiful albeit knocked up with a kind eye and those ears, they are huge. I hope everything goes well CI and now the shock is wearing off you are just a little bit excited to meet her baby.


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## scats (5 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Vet thinks the foal is due any day.

Teen mum says hi to her HHO fan club.

View attachment 73101

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That’s the face of a teenager in trouble!


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## Berpisc (5 June 2021)

All the very best for an easy foaling, not what you could have done with, but she is lovely. Lindylouanne it might have been the kind eye and the agreeably big tabs that got her into trouble in the first place


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## LadyGascoyne (5 June 2021)

It’s going to be very cute though CI!

What colour were the boys that were in with her? And what colour was her sire?


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## Caol Ila (5 June 2021)

Dad is grey-dun. One of the boys is bay and the other is grey. Same sire as Hermosa but different dams.

At least she’s pretty. No wonder she got into trouble with the boys.


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## Wheels (5 June 2021)

I wish you good luck, I am sure you will love the foal once he / she arrives.  It will be a great experience once you get used to the idea


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## Lindylouanne (5 June 2021)

Berpisc said:



			All the very best for an easy foaling, not what you could have done with, but she is lovely. Lindylouanne it might have been the kind eye and the agreeably big tabs that got her into trouble in the first place 

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🤣🤣🤣


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## Ambers Echo (5 June 2021)

hobo said:



			Amber You have reminded me we need updated pictures that was that itsy bitsy cutiest foal I have ever seen if I remember correctly.
		
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Here you go CI. Something to make you broody.


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## ycbm (5 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Vet thinks the foal is due any day.

Teen mum says hi to her HHO fan club.

View attachment 73101

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We know what you've been doing!


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## Amymay (5 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Vet thinks the foal is due any day.
		
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I’d say you’ve got longer than that. But best be prepared.


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## ycbm (5 June 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Here you go CI. Something to make you broody.

View attachment 73105
View attachment 73106
View attachment 73107
View attachment 73108
View attachment 73109

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That's a fabulous mini heavy foal, what a bogoff!
.


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## Slightlyconfused (5 June 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Here you go CI. Something to make you broody.

View attachment 73105
View attachment 73106
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View attachment 73108
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Oh I am in love 💜💜💜💜


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## Caol Ila (5 June 2021)

YO thinks she could go tonight. She milked her a bit and says there is colostrum. 

I didn't think my first camping trip of 2021 would be at the barn. F&(ck's sake.


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## Ambers Echo (5 June 2021)

Eek. Good luck


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## Caol Ila (5 June 2021)

Would you guys have the vet there as soon as you see anything happening, or would you just watch and wait and see how they get on and only call the vet if it looks like it's going wrong?


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## CanteringCarrot (5 June 2021)

Well, this has escalated quickly.


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## Caol Ila (5 June 2021)

Yeah, I'm not really sure what's going on anymore.

The answer to the title of this thread is, in fact, yes.


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## Amymay (5 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Would you guys have the vet there as soon as you see anything happening, or would you just watch and wait and see how they get on and only call the vet if it looks like it's going wrong?
		
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Watch and wait, especially if your YO is on hand.

_*However*_ if you would feel happier with vet in attendance there’s absolutely no reason not to call them.


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## hobo (5 June 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Here you go CI. Something to make you broody.

View attachment 73105
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How did she get even more adorable I would have thought it was not possible but she has.


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## Laurac13 (5 June 2021)

Good luck 🤞 my friend bred a few foals from her grade A show jumping mare and all went smoothly every time I think as long as your vet is close by and on standby to get to you quickly I’d not worry too much, but your decision whatever you are comfortable with, I hope you get a pretty filly good luck 😘


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## hobo (5 June 2021)

Blimey she must have altered a lot quickly. Good luck leave her as peaceful as you can but have one eye open. Hopefully YO will help you through it. It is the wax building up that is a real give away but I guess some do not read the book. Best not to try and milk her before if can avoid it now you know she has colostrum.


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## Tiddlypom (5 June 2021)

I think it was Asha on here who said she watched some foaling videos before her mare foaled earlier this year. Were they Stallion AI ones? They helped her know what to do when things went a bit off plan - it ended well.

Good luck.

ETA Yes, it was Asha.



Asha said:



			I watched the one done by Stallion A I . It’s been 4 years since we had a foal so was great to do a refresher . Have to say it really helped when I was in the middle of it .
		
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## The Fuzzy Furry (5 June 2021)

I would alert duty vet that things look imminent tonight.
Observe all the way and if worried phone vet x
Good luck


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## Roasted Chestnuts (5 June 2021)

Good luck for the foaling


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## Fraggle2 (5 June 2021)

Good luck for the foaling.  X


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## Jayzee (5 June 2021)

Best of luck for the foaling! A shock for sure but hopefully a blessing in disguise eventually.

Hermosa is certainly gorgeous


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## Millie-Rose (5 June 2021)

I would (and did) watch and call vets if problems if it goes smoothly the whole process is generally very quick (mine was just under 5 mins from water breaking to foal on floor, before that we thought she was in labour but weren't totally convinced) . I was told by vet on foaling course that once water breaks if nothing happening for 5 mins call vet or if at any time no progress for 5 mins call. Whole process should absolutely not be longer than half an hour or so and most are much quicker than that. Don't rely on wax, mine didn't wax until actually in labour. If milk is white and tastes sweet your close. Good luck and be sure to join foaling hub on Facebook. Lots of experienced advice and support (which I needed more after the birth which was very straightforward, it's all those is this normal type questions) Good Luck.


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## Surbie (5 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Pregnant. Very. Due imminently. All decisions are out of our hands because vet says she’s too far gone to move. Yard owner knows her sh1t, she’s had foals,  and she will help us deal.

Can’t f£)£££king believe it. You can’t write this stuff.
		
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Oh my! I didn't see this yesterday and things have gone very fast since then!! I hope you had a chance to have a bucket of wine and come to terms a bit with the idea of a knocked up teen! What a dim-witted breeder, it just beggars belief. 

So glad you have an experienced YO. I hope Hermosa has an easy delivery. If the foal is anything like her mother it will be a stunner.


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## palo1 (5 June 2021)

Millie-Rose said:



			I would (and did) watch and call vets if problems if it goes smoothly the whole process is generally very quick (mine was just under 5 mins from water breaking to foal on floor, before that we thought she was in labour but weren't totally convinced) . I was told by vet on foaling course that once water breaks if nothing happening for 5 mins call vet or if at any time no progress for 5 mins call. Whole process should absolutely not be longer than half an hour or so and most are much quicker than that. Don't rely on wax, mine didn't wax until actually in labour. If milk is white and tastes sweet your close. Good luck and be sure to join foaling hub on Facebook. Lots of experienced advice and support (which I needed more after the birth which was very straightforward, it's all those is this normal type questions) Good Luck.
		
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The foaling hub is very supportive and will help you when you have questions but as Millie-Rose says, if your mare is not progressing in labour or if you have any concerns ask the vet to attend.


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## Asha (5 June 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			I think it was Asha on here who said she watched some foaling videos before her mare foaled earlier this year. Were they Stallion AI ones? They helped her know what to do when things went a bit off plan - it ended well.

Good luck.

ETA Yes, it was Asha.
		
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OP .. if you can watch them . It definitely helped me . Especially as my mare had a partial red bag delivery. Because I’d watched the videos I’d had a good refresher . So when it was going a bit pear shaped I was calm and managed to take control . 
Good luck, and I hope all goes well .


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## PapaverFollis (5 June 2021)

Oh my!  Good luck!


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## Mule (5 June 2021)

How exciting 🥳


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## Caol Ila (5 June 2021)

Been reading up on all the things that could go wrong. I guess it's good because it tells you what to look for, but also quite scary.


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## rabatsa (5 June 2021)

Things that you have no control over are always scary.  Problems tend to be in the minority in real life.


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## splashgirl45 (5 June 2021)

good luck,  i saw my first birth a couple of years ago, owner was almost 2 hours away as foal wasnt due for about a week, i was the only one at the yard and phoned owner in a bit of a panic but id seen loads of videos and all went smoothly. i knew to clear his nose once he was out and i stayed until owner got back.  it was an amazing experience, but a bit scary.....


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## Xtra (5 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Would you guys have the vet there as soon as you see anything happening, or would you just watch and wait and see how they get on and only call the vet if it looks like it's going wrong?
		
Click to expand...

Vet as soon as you see anything. I was told by the time trouble starts its too late to get them. They would rather be either half way out and go home if all OK or carry on to check mum and baby out.


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## Pearlsasinger (5 June 2021)

There is no point in panicking - it achieves nothing.  Fingers crossed that all goes well with the birth, whether that is tonight or in the future.


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## Flame_ (5 June 2021)

Wow, exciting times. Enjoy every minute of your unexpected experience, I'm sure your horse and imminent arrival are in the very best hands


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## Caol Ila (5 June 2021)

I can see a vague horse shaped blob in the dark doing a fair bit of pacing. She’s obviously in a field by herself, but she was just grazing earlier today. Dr. Google says it could be the first stage.


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## alibali (5 June 2021)

I hope it's tonight for you then you'll be able to relax and get some rest


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## Caol Ila (5 June 2021)

I hope she isn’t pacing because she’s by herself at night. Does that make a difference?


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

Why me and why now? I don’t think I’ve fully got my head around how bonkers this is.


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## bonny (6 June 2021)

If she’s used to company she could well be pacing because of being on her own


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## Roasted Chestnuts (6 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Why me and why now? I don’t think I’ve fully got my head around how bonkers this is.
		
Click to expand...

that type of thinking will just tie you in knots. Kick it out. It’s happening, the why and where and how are long gone and not worth the time wasted on thinking about them. 

Big glass of wine (or schloer if your on baby driving duties) and just plan for your new addition 😃


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## J&S (6 June 2021)

My young mare did it all by herself in the night, don't panic, I am sure all will be well.  Good luck.


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## Millie-Rose (6 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I can see a vague horse shaped blob in the dark doing a fair bit of pacing. She’s obviously in a field by herself, but she was just grazing earlier today. Dr. Google says it could be the first stage.
		
Click to expand...

Could be first stage or could just be upset at being on her own. Mine was restless for a few nights before D day. The thing that convinced me she was in labour rather than just fed up and uncomfortable was how hot she was, was sweating and steaming like a sauna all of a sudden, then running milk then waters went. Keep an eye for her going down although some will foal standing up and drop foal on its head 🙄


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

Even with our yard moves, I’ve never seen her pace or box walk.


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## Millie-Rose (6 June 2021)

Could well be beginning then. Have a Google on red bag deliveries as that is an emergency that can't wait for vet. Once foals born the rule is should be standing in one hour, suckling in two and placenta passed in three if any of these not hit then vet. Mare will often be mildly colicy til placenta passed as still contracting. Tie it in a knot or up with string to keep it off the floor til passed, never pull it out. Foals umbilical will need disinfecting as soon as cord breaks ideally with iodine but people use stuff like terramycin spray too it's an ideal route in for infection. If it breaks naturally when mare gets up it shouldn't really bleed as blood transfer complete. Hope I'm not bombarding with info and hopefully you have YO there to help you am just trying to think what's most important to know. Am so sorry that you're having to deal with this especially this week


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

Yeah, googled red bag deliveries. Freaked myself out.


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## Millie-Rose (6 June 2021)

Its highly unlikely to happen just worth knowing that if bag that presents is red and not white you've got a problem. If waters go it won't be red bag as they are stuck inside that first membrane so if waters go then you get a white bag, two feet and a nose you can relax a bit. 90% of births go without issue so odds are it will be fine, it's what they are designed to do.


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## Peregrine Falcon (6 June 2021)

My mare began walking round the fields about 2hrs before she gave birth. All of mine have been straight forward births. Don't panic.


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## Dave's Mam (6 June 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Here you go CI. Something to make you broody.

View attachment 73105
View attachment 73106
View attachment 73107
View attachment 73108
View attachment 73109

Click to expand...


Oh my days, so gorgeous.


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## PurBee (6 June 2021)

My mare had her first foal at 3 yrs old with previous owner. Then 6 more followed annually as he picked her for her breeding as a broodmare for his stallion. All her births went well.

I bought her at 10yrs old, foal number 7 cooking. (Ill decide on my death bed whether this was the greatest mistake of my life, or finest hour! 😜)
i had no experience at all, no-one here at home with experience either.
I googled and freaked myself out. I was so stressed regretting everything!
Oh was i stressed.

Luckily, she foaled in the early hours by herself in the field, and i was greeted with a foal running beside her who saw me and gave his first whinny! Heart-melting...!

Rang breeder...”now what?!!!”....just chillllllax....mum does everything.
He said she always foaled outside in the field...paced, picked her place...and births smooth.

You’re lucky Hermosa actually likes you - my mare was extremely unhappy about being moved to a new human and home after spending her life with 1 person in 1 home....so to say that she was tricky to handle would be being generous.
Once her foal was on the ground she bared her teeth at me and lunged at me then spun her hind end at me “he’s mine! Keep away stranger!”
I stomped the field and found full placenta....then more field stomping day 1 looking for his first poop! All good!

Iodine on the umbilical site on foal...with breeders help as he couldnt believe how aggressive his mare had become towards me post foaling...lol!! ”she never kicks bites..” Within the first month i’d received both from her! She wanted her favourite person she’d knew all her life, and it wasnt me. Thank god the breeder was helpful.

You have experienced help, great facilities, and a horse who sees you as her person....its a wonderful moment to savour!

Im really sad i didnt get to see the birth of my foal...i was watching vids and reading everything to gain insight. Was stressed but felt prepared to know if it wasnt normal and i needed a vet. 
In hindsight, knowing horses better, i wouldnt have allowed her to move if i was the breeder of my mare, being so close to foaling, considering how long she’d been in that 1 home with HER herd. It was full-on stress for her and thus me too, but despite all that, we got through it, she trusted me after a few more weeks, and its been an amazing experience!

Everything crossed for a smooth birthing for you all, and i know its hard, but try not to worry. Whatever issues can be dealt with on the slim chance they crop up. 
I cant wait for foal pics on this thread....we’re all gonna gush!
😁🥳


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## Dave's Mam (6 June 2021)

Ponies foal on moors & fields all the time.  I'm excited for your new arrival.  Fingers crossed!


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

She’s settled again. Been standing in one place for a little while now.


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## PurBee (6 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She’s settled again. Been standing in one place for a little while now.
		
Click to expand...

do you have her on foal cam or are you actually there at the yard observing her in the field?


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

I’m at the yard, watching her in the field. Who had time to set up a foal cam?? We have a camper set up for my Yeti but this is not how I thought I would ever be using it.


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## PurBee (6 June 2021)

That’s handy at least!
I hope its a nice mild, dry and still evening there.
I bet you feel like you’re at a drive-in movie...watching with popcorn...!
 It must feel surreal being very new news, after the week youve had, now camped out at night, yet it’s great you’ve got your bases covered. 
Fingers crossed you wont wait long!

My mare birthed around almost dawn, not sure if its a common time for foaling, but kinda makes sense to have the peace and quiet of night for the birth yet the safety of day just close-by for the foal to be up and ready to be warmed by the sun and on the move with mum.


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

More like hiking to the watering holes in Africa and sitting there for hours waiting for something to happen.

So far, nothing really is. We’re grazing at the moment.


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## PurBee (6 June 2021)

My mare didnt visibly wax-up to my novice eye.

Another symptom very close to foaling is apparently ‘blinking’ their urethra. contractions induced maybe? (here’s hoping youve got your safari binoculars with you!)

Funny true story: A woman at work rings hubby at home to check on horse about to foal Imminently.
 “Anything?” 
“Im not sure, seems normal to me”
”is she blinking at you?”
” I dont know, i cant see her face”


😂🤣


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

I’m not close enough to see. We’re back to pacing.


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## Lyle (6 June 2021)

*Squeeee* I'm so excited/nervous/stressed on your behalf! I hope it all goes smoothly. This is why I like hatching chickens!  Much less stress!


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## SatansLittleHelper (6 June 2021)

I guess that the plus side of the foal being imminent is that you having got as long to wind yourself up and stress about it lol.
Everything crossed for a nice, straightforward foaling so you can relax a bit x


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## katastrophykat (6 June 2021)

Best of luck, my mare hopped in and out of first stage labour for two weeks (confirmed by at least three different experienced parties on different days, all having had significant stud experience…) and I slept in the wagon at the yard for two weeks after her due date before the years of WiFi cameras. I eventually decided that me being there and checking her every couple of hours was putting her off so put her out in the first field, adjacent to her herd and in full view of her friends. 

Came up at first light (about 4.30am) to check, mare grazing and all was quiet. Something made me walk down the herd field to check her closet without irritating her directly, and I found Gunner at under two hours old- she’d had him against the fence we think, he slid under into a ditch, clambered up through an electric fence at the other side of said ditch and the mares next door were not being kind to this new interloper! When I called the vet, he asked if he was really needed… I swore a little bit 😂 

All was fine. 

One last thing to Google is Dummy foals and the Madigan foal squeeze- just in case. 

Oh- and go buy a bottle, I didn’t have one in my foaling kit and needed it for his first two feeds only. 

Looking forwards to seeing foaly!


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## Spotherisk (6 June 2021)

How is she now?  I hope you managed some sleep!


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

No baby. She’s holding out. Guess we’re doing this again.


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## CanteringCarrot (6 June 2021)

If you nod off or turn your back for a second, that's when she will foal 😅 it can be surprisingly sneaky and quick. Which isn't a bad thing I suppose!  They can also make you wait. Ah, mares, fun times.

In a way, maybe it is good that it's all happening so fast. I'm excited to see the little one. I totally have foal fever this year.

Hoping for a smooth foaling for you and Hermosa!


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## Asha (6 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			No baby. She’s holding out. Guess we’re doing this again.
		
Click to expand...






OP .. watch this video . It will give you an idea of what a mare look like before she’s due to foal .
My mare would pace for a bit then chill out . That was her routine leading up to it . Before she foaled she paced a lot more . Hope video helps a bit


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## Abi90 (6 June 2021)

Asha said:








OP .. watch this video . It will give you an idea of what a mare look like before she’s due to foal .
My mare would pace for a bit then chill out . That was her routine leading up to it . Before she foaled she paced a lot more . Hope video helps a bit
		
Click to expand...

This. I was about to say. It gives you a chance to read up on stuff a bit more (including red bag delivery) then you can feel more confident going into tonight. I echo that The Foaling Hub on Facebook is great for advice, and a lady on there is happy to help first timers and talk them through. It’s mostly supportive


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

Alternating between pacing and chilling seems to be our MO right now. Would she appreciate fuss from us or do they prefer to be left alone?


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## rabatsa (6 June 2021)

My last mare liked to foal at 10 am for each of her foals, the one before that it was 4 pm.  Nice civilised hours.

I got cameras for the sheep!


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## rabatsa (6 June 2021)

If she is a people person then she will like you near for a bit of fuss, if she only tollerates people then give her space.


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## Spotherisk (6 June 2021)

Ours foaled a fortnight early before we’d started keeping watch.  I’d just peeked at her bag and seen it big at last, she had breakfast and foaled in front of us at 8.30am.


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## Tiddlypom (6 June 2021)

Has she been turned out on her own before? The pacing could be partly due to that, though I can quite see why you want her on her own with foaling imminent.


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## Red-1 (6 June 2021)

I had a foal years ago, she showed no immanent signs then we were greeted by a foal in the morning. At the time, I was sad. On reflection, I am glad I was spared the stress. 

Keep going OP, you are doing great!


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

She has been turned out on her own at the last yard and was fine. I’m trying to get some sleep in the car. OH went to see if she wanted human company and she went up to him.


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## Sandstone1 (6 June 2021)

Any chance you can get or borrow a camera?  There are a couple that dont require mains or wifi.


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## Peregrine Falcon (6 June 2021)

How red is her vulva inside and has it lengthened/slackened?


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## Pearlsasinger (6 June 2021)

bonny said:



			If she’s used to company she could well be pacing because of being on her own
		
Click to expand...


She isn't on her own, she has the foal.  Our, admittedly experienced, broodmare knew that foal was safer if she was in a field without company.


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## milliepops (6 June 2021)

My mare was on her own for 3 weeks before she foaled, as there was not room for another horse at the field that was suitable for the purpose. It wasn't what I'd have chosen if there had been alternatives, but she was visibly ready for some peace and had been distancing herself from the other mares she lived with for a while. 

Hope you aren't hanging on too long, I was a zombie by the time mine popped and it took ages before i could sleep longer than 40 mins at a time after doing weeks of night checks


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## The Fuzzy Furry (6 June 2021)

My unexpected one arrived 4 days after I'd put my (then) 4 fuzzies together, so she foaled down with 3 others in the field!  The late Tiny Fuzzy had done sterling work as crowd control and was keeping the other 2 back at a polite distance by the time I got there and found 5 in the field......


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

She’s settled now. Not pacing or lying down or weeing a lot. OH and I are going home for a bit. There’s plenty of people about during the day.


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## Sussexbythesea (6 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She’s settled now. Not pacing or lying down or weeing a lot. OH and I are going home for a bit. There’s plenty of people about during the day.
		
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I think you need to start a new foal watch thread 😁🥰


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## brighteyes (6 June 2021)

55 alerts for this thread - I panicked.


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## LadyGascoyne (6 June 2021)

Are you at least a little excited CI? I know it’s not ideal and totally unexpected but hopefully you will have a lovely foal shortly.


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

I'm excited to meet it, and I'll be happier once it's safely here.

Been scanning the web for wifi wildlife cameras that transmit remotely, but so far, the only ones we've found that we could get today are like £400. I don't know anyone who has one.


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## milliepops (6 June 2021)

reolink go on amazon prime?  on offer at the mo.  I have 2 and been pleased with them.  be another night watching but might give you some peace of mind tomorrow?


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

There are so many. It needs to run on 4/5G and not require mains elecricity.


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## LadyGascoyne (6 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			There are so many. It needs to run on 4/5G and not require mains elecricity.
		
Click to expand...

https://m.reolink.com/product/reoli...MIv77ElPyC8QIVCbLtCh0s7QXhEAAYASAAEgKw1vD_BwE


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

I guess even after it's on the ground, it would be nice to be able to watch them without permanently moving in. One of these is probably worth it.

The one in LadyGascoyne's link, or this one? https://reolink.com/product/reolink-go-pt/


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## Sandstone1 (6 June 2021)

Reolink go are great, No mains power or wifi needeed.  Runs of a data sim for £4 a month and can be charged by solar panel or mains.


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

I'm trying to figure out how the SIM part works, and my head is a bit fuzzy. Does the SIM come with the camera? Do I need to take out another data plan? Can it be linked to my (or OH's... he like 100GB per month with Virgin... I have 50GB with Vodafone) existing plans?


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## meleeka (6 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I'm trying to figure out how the SIM part works, and my head is a bit fuzzy. Does the SIM come with the camera? Do I need to take out another data plan? Can it be linked to my (or OH's... he like 100GB per month with Virgin... I have 50GB with Vodafone) existing plans?
		
Click to expand...

my Vodafone V- SIM came with mine, but a friends didn’t come with one.  They cost £5 to buy and when you connect to the camera, Vodafone just add £4pm to your current plan account.  It couldn’t be easier really. 

The sim and SD card go inside the camera so all you need to do is charge it, download the app, connect it and put it up somewhere.


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## Sandstone1 (6 June 2021)

You get a vodaphone sim with it which you have to register, you will have a rolling £4 a month contract which you can cancel anytime.   If you watch from home it will use your wifi but if you watch out and about it will use your mobile data.  You can link 5 other phones to it, it also works on my lap top and kindle. You have to download the reolink app.  Its really easy to set up. Even I managed it and Im rubbish with technology.  Reolink customer service are really helpful too.  It comes with pretty clear instuctions.  I wouldnt want to be without mine now.


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## PurBee (6 June 2021)

LadyGascoyne said:



https://m.reolink.com/product/reoli...MIv77ElPyC8QIVCbLtCh0s7QXhEAAYASAAEgKw1vD_BwE

Click to expand...

 That looks useful.

Re-chargeable battery - how long does 1 full charge last? How long does it take to charge to full? 
Camera will have to be dismounted to charge it, unless you can put any rechargeable batteries in it, for continuous use?


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## PurBee (6 June 2021)

PurBee said:



			That looks useful.

Re-chargeable battery - how long does 1 full charge last? How long does it take to charge to full?
Camera will have to be dismounted to charge it, unless you can put any rechargeable batteries in it, for continuous use?
		
Click to expand...

Finally see on the reolink site its an inbuilt battery so will have to take down the camera to recharge, then remount. Not great for foaling watch unless 1 charge lasts weeks. Id get 2 cameras then...1 in use, 1 fully charged ready to replace drained battery of camera in use. Just change the sim over.


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## Sandstone1 (6 June 2021)

PurBee said:



			That looks useful.

Re-chargeable battery - how long does 1 full charge last? How long does it take to charge to full?
Camera will have to be dismounted to charge it, unless you can put any rechargeable batteries in it, for continuous use?
		
Click to expand...

That is the one I have, its easy to dismount as just screws in to the mount, a charge lasts me about a week but would depend how often you use it.   You can also get a solar panel to charge it up.  It really is simple to set up and use.  you dont have to use it on the mount either.  You can just sit it anywhere safe ie on a shelf in stable. It is better on the mount be takes seconds to unscrew.


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## milliepops (6 June 2021)

PurBee said:



			Finally see on the reolink site its an inbuilt battery so will have to take down the camera to recharge, then remount. Not great for foaling watch unless 1 charge lasts weeks. Id get 2 cameras then...1 in use, 1 fully charged ready to replace drained battery of camera in use. Just change the sim over.
		
Click to expand...

You can get solar panels for them which make them maintenance free.


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

I can get one that pans and one that doesn't. I don't know if the one that doesn't will see the whole field. How wide is the angle?


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## PurBee (6 June 2021)

milliepops said:



			You can get solar panels for them which make them maintenance free.
		
Click to expand...

yeah the solar is useful...in a sunny place!

SP’s about as useful as a chocolate teapot in cloudy locations....(she says having run out of power from my large 200watt panel during summer in a cloudy climate.)

Depending on wattage of camera (should be low) depends on effectiveness of persistent cloudy scottish climate to receive enough drip charge to power the cam. Reolink dont say what wattage their 30 quid tiny panel is or whether its mono or polycrystalline solar cells -( one is far more effective than the other in cloudy conditions)

Hmmm id be looking for a camera that can take rechargeable removeable batteries that you exchange with new and take home the batteries to charge while keeping the camera on 24/7 wifi hookup.


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## Shilasdair (6 June 2021)

How imminent did the vets think?  
I only ask because, to me, she doesn't look all that imminent and you could lose a lot of sleep this way.  
And you might spend three weeks watching her every move - and then she'll foal when you nip to the loo.


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## PurBee (6 June 2021)

Theres this which takes removeable rechargeable batteries
(uses 2.4G wifi...whats that? A typo? )

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ieGeek-Rec.../B08292R3HK/ref=psdc_1330828031_t2_B07PM2NBGT

(youd have to buy more/spare  10,000ma  lithium rechargeable batteries and charger with the above camera to swop batteries over so you have continuous camera use)


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

The vet thought it could be within 48 hours. YO agreed.


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

2.4G wifi means it needs a wifi connection. I think YO is using a dongle for her internet, so that probably wouldn't work. We really need a 3/4G one.


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## milliepops (6 June 2021)

I've been using 2 solar 4g reolinks for 15 months without an issue so the puny SPs do work 🤷‍♀️

The pan/tilt one's weren't out yet when I bought mine. I can cover most of my field with one standard camera but I'd have had a P/T if it had been available as I had to fence off the corners to avoid blind spots.


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## brighteyes (6 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			The vet thought it could be within 48 hours. YO agreed.
		
Click to expand...

In which case cheaper to camp out next to her (in this weather should be no hardship) Set alarm for 15 minute intervals if you want to sleep.


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## Caol Ila (6 June 2021)

Just thinking the camera wouldn't be stupid, even if I have to camp out again tonight and she has it...Then I  could use it to watch foalie and not live at the barn.


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## milliepops (6 June 2021)

In case it's useful this is my outdoor cam at the moment,  horses are at the bottom of the field but you can zoom in and see well enough for an "are you ok" view. The other one is in the shelter


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## meleeka (6 June 2021)

i have the optional solar panel.  Mine’s been up a couple of months and the battery is still 100%.


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## Spotherisk (7 June 2021)

Any foal yet OP, is all well?


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## Ownedby4horses (7 June 2021)

Also hoping all is well OP and that you have both managed to have some rest.


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## littleshetland (7 June 2021)

I keep checking this thread.....don't think Ive been so excited about a foal since I bred my own a few years back!


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## Emilieu (7 June 2021)

I woke twice during the night and checked 🙈 hope all well CI


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## Surbie (7 June 2021)

Is it Foaly Monday? Is anyone doing The Dance?


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## Cavalier (7 June 2021)

I’m supposed to be working but can’t stop checking in. It reminds me of when we were waiting for Tessy to have her foal


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## Mule (7 June 2021)

I love foals 🤗


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## Fraggle2 (7 June 2021)

Another that keeps checking for updates. Hope everything is OK cl?


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## Jellymoon (7 June 2021)

littleshetland said:



			I keep checking this thread.....don't think Ive been so excited about a foal since I bred my own a few years back!
		
Click to expand...

I’m the same! Keep checking in every day!


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## babymare (7 June 2021)

Another constantly checking in 😁


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## Errin Paddywack (7 June 2021)

Another here too.


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## Spirit2021 (7 June 2021)

Same


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## Fransurrey (7 June 2021)

Good luck, CI. Not the news you wanted, but I suspect that will change when you meet the foal! A friend of mine had Reolink and was really happy with it.


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## Rosietaz (7 June 2021)

Can you invest in some Ph strips so you can test the milk (if she’ll let you?) might give you a good timeframe of when she’s ready. Good luck!


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## Gloi (7 June 2021)

Booby pics needed 😉


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## OrangeAndLemon (7 June 2021)

I wonder if CI can't update because she's now spending her time watching a beautiful foal find its feet.

Hope all is well OP.


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## Goldenstar (7 June 2021)

Oh no news .
My longest wait was from two weeks ( mare was bagged and waxed )before the due date and a month after we got cctv after three weeks I was exhausted .
It was maiden mare and early for foaling here and the weather was terrible she hung on and on.


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## Tarragon (7 June 2021)

I am another one who keeps on checking for updates


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## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

No updates, I'm afraid. She's holding out. Looked really promising Sunday morning. Lots of pacing, lying down, getting up, and weeing a lot, but then she settled and started grazing. I'm home now but can get boobie pics when I go out later. Hopefully my camera will arrive today so I can watch her from my sofa. 

She's finally relaxed in her field, anyway. She's lying down for naps. Hopefully that means she'll crack on with this foal. I hate this waiting. But I guess it's what they do.


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## Amymay (7 June 2021)

We need ‘under the tail’ pics too 🤣


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## PurBee (7 June 2021)

Mule said:



			I love foals 🤗
		
Click to expand...

Before looking after a foal, i kinda liked them thought they were cute etc...

But having ‘raised one’...ohhh god yes, i love them, they so playful and curious, really bring a lot of happiness to your day. 
They havent been taught what to fear so are quite brave too, which for a domesticated animal is good to capitalise on, dont be afraid of exposing foal to noises, farm machinery etc....early natural desensitisation. Tarps flapping over wood piles etc.. My foal now 8 is courageous and brave with a sensible amount of caution. 
The only thing i missed de-sensitising before 18 months was spray bottles....my god...use them on his feet fine as i always did....but body? He’s sure the mist will kill him 😂 
Whereas the other horse, mainly exposed to square stable and square field growing up, avoids everything she doesnt know what it is. Far more afraid of ‘new’ stuff.

Hermosa sounds very near...unless foal moving around inside her pre labour weeks causes maiden mares to pace/lay down due to the ‘weird’ sensations?


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## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

Vet didn't think it was weeks. She thought it was more like days. I hope she's right.


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## Asha (7 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Vet didn't think it was weeks. She thought it was more like days. I hope she's right.
		
Click to expand...

Vets can get it wrong.. especially with maiden mares. Vet came to see my girl as her caslicked had resealed. Mmm she said .. youve got at least another week, foal came next day.

Good photos of udders/vulva/ tail head area and belly shape will help.


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## milliepops (7 June 2021)

PurBee said:



			Before looking after a foal, i kinda liked them thought they were cute etc...

But having ‘raised one’...ohhh god yes, i love them, they so playful and curious, really bring a lot of happiness to your day.
		
Click to expand...

so much this! 
the various lockdowns and restrictions last year more or less passed me by because the only place i wanted to be was at the nursery field anyway


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## CanteringCarrot (7 June 2021)

None of you are helping by foal fever. I am clearly in the wrong place...


but I can't seem to leave 🤣


----------



## LadyGascoyne (7 June 2021)

I think we need to open the bets on filly v colt and colour.




Caol Ila said:



			Dad is grey-dun. One of the boys is bay and the other is grey. Same sire as Hermosa but different dams.
		
Click to expand...

I say a dun filly.


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## rabatsa (7 June 2021)

Bay colt.


----------



## BallyJ (7 June 2021)

Dun Filly (fingers crossed)
Best of luck to you *Caol Ila!* Not that you need it! Hermosa is so beautiful!


----------



## shortstuff99 (7 June 2021)

True dun is vanishingly rare in PRE's so if she is then would be very desirable! 

I'm going for a bay filly with ND1


----------



## ester (7 June 2021)

Do we get to know what dad possibly is before guessing


----------



## Cloball (7 June 2021)

Bay filly who gets lovely dapples in the summer


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## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			True dun is vanishingly rare in PRE's so if she is then would be very desirable!

I'm going for a bay filly with ND1 

Click to expand...

Given this is very, very line bred, maybe it will be a true dun.


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## brighteyes (7 June 2021)

Asha said:



			Good photos of udders/vulva/ tail head area and belly shape will help.
		
Click to expand...

As direct a hint as you'll get on here!


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## LadyGascoyne (7 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Dad is grey-dun. One of the boys is bay and the other is grey. Same sire as Hermosa but different dams.

At least she’s pretty. No wonder she got into trouble with the boys.
	View attachment 73104

Click to expand...




ester said:



			Do we get to know what dad possibly is before guessing 

Click to expand...

Choice of three! 🤣


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## Shilasdair (7 June 2021)

Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't look imminent from the photos?    
I guess I worked at a stud/foaled broodmares rather than maiden 3 year olds but...

Happy to be wrong - as that way Caol Ila might get more sleep  but...


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## cauda equina (7 June 2021)

I don't suppose there's any chance of a mule?
Just wishful thinking really!


----------



## Asha (7 June 2021)

Shilasdair said:



			Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't look imminent from the photos?    
I guess I worked at a stud/foaled broodmares rather than maiden 3 year olds but...

Happy to be wrong - as that way Caol Ila might get more sleep  but...
		
Click to expand...

From the photos posted I agree with you . Hopefully we can get some more and get a better idea. Foal watching through the forum is so much easier and less tiring 😜


----------



## Abi90 (7 June 2021)

Asha said:



			From the photos posted I agree with you . Hopefully we can get some more and get a better idea. Foal watching through the forum is so much easier and less tiring 😜
		
Click to expand...

My, admittedly inexperienced, opinion was that it was not that imminent either.


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## ester (7 June 2021)

LadyGascoyne said:



			Choice of three! 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I'm suspecting the grey dun isn't actually dun though  

Grey colt my bet


----------



## Kat (7 June 2021)

I'm going for grey filly.


----------



## Amymay (7 June 2021)

Shilasdair said:



			Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't look imminent from the photos?  
I guess I worked at a stud/foaled broodmares rather than maiden 3 year olds but...

Happy to be wrong - as that way Caol Ila might get more sleep  but...
		
Click to expand...

I would guess at least a week to ten days.

So I’m going for a bay filly on 17th June.


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## meleeka (7 June 2021)

Amymay said:



			I would guess at least a week to ten days.

So I’m going for a bay filly on 17th June.
		
Click to expand...

How can you tell that from the photos?

I’d agree she doesn’t  look that pregnant just from photos but perhaps like people her young muscles are holding it in tightly.

I’m happy to take the word of the two experience people that have seen her in the flesh and am checking back often 😀


----------



## Spirit2021 (7 June 2021)

Shilasdair said:



			Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't look imminent from the photos?  
I guess I worked at a stud/foaled broodmares rather than maiden 3 year olds but...

Happy to be wrong - as that way Caol Ila might get more sleep  but...
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree personally it looks like to me that she still has a good 2 to 3 months just by looking at the photos. I could be completely wrong my current yard has broodmares and there   look a lot bigger than what op horse looks like.


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## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

Both and vet and YO, who know their sh1t, think it's very, very soon. I'm happy to go with that 

I have my camera and will set it up when we go to the yard. I'll take some pictures of the horse as well


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## SaddlePsych'D (7 June 2021)

Wowza things have escalated somewhat! I'm sorry it wasn't the outcome you hoped for CI and at an already tricky time, but I hope there will be some positives in among the stress of it! Will keep my fingers crossed all goes as smoothly as possible and will look forward to some foal pics soon


----------



## Goldenstar (7 June 2021)

CI is she waxed ?


----------



## Meowy Catkin (7 June 2021)

I wanted to guess grey! Oh well, I'll have to go for the unlikely (but does sometimes happen) 'surprise chestnut' from non-chestnut parents. 

Best of luck for the foaling.


----------



## Amymay (7 June 2021)

Spirit2021 said:



			Yeah I agree personally it looks like to me that she still has a good 2 to 3 months just by looking at the photos. I could be completely wrong my current yard has broodmares and there   look a lot bigger than what op horse looks like.
		
Click to expand...

A ‘broodmare’ will always be bigger than a maiden, so there’s not really any comparison to be made between the two.


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## Goldenstar (7 June 2021)

That‘s a thing you can’t assume anything from a maiden mare .


----------



## DabDab (7 June 2021)

I'm also going to be on a grey filly. Born in the next two days.


----------



## CanteringCarrot (7 June 2021)

My vote is for a mini me. Same/similar color to Hermosa, and a filly. In the next 3 days.


----------



## Lammy (7 June 2021)

Hope all goes well CI 🤞🏼 and I hope you get a lovely dun filly, but most importantly a healthy one whatever Hermosa’s been cooking 😊


----------



## southerncomfort (7 June 2021)

DabDab said:



			I'm also going to be on a grey filly. Born in the next two days.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm with Dab Dab! Grey filly.


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## Sussexbythesea (7 June 2021)

I’m ridiculously excited there’s nothing like a beautiful new life. I’ve got my flask and my sleeping bag ready for foal watch 🤣.

My bet is on a bay filly 15th June 🤞🏻.


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## Sandstone1 (7 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Both and vet and YO, who know their sh1t, think it's very, very soon. I'm happy to go with that

I have my camera and will set it up when we go to the yard. I'll take some pictures of the horse as well
		
Click to expand...

I hope the camera will give you a bit more peace of mind.   I am going for a bay colt with a white face and two white socks on thursday


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## DirectorFury (7 June 2021)

I‘m betting on a grey filly, and she’ll be born about 5 minutes after you get the camera up .


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## DabDab (7 June 2021)

DirectorFury said:



			I‘m betting on a grey filly, and she’ll be born about 5 minutes after you get the camera up .
		
Click to expand...

Surely while they are distracted getting it set up...


----------



## Asha (7 June 2021)

I betting on a dun colt.. who will arrive on the 14th June


----------



## PurBee (7 June 2021)

southerncomfort said:



			Yep, I'm with Dab Dab! Grey filly.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, first thought was grey filly too....my grey colt was a little studster trying to mount his dam even as a wee thing, so me thinks there’s some extra juice in greys and the grey colt hermosa was with got in there first lol!

Birth date - 10th june (theres a solar eclipse that day for europe/north, the moon (gestation / mother/birth ) over-rules the 
sun power (insemination/growth/father).


----------



## nikicb (7 June 2021)

Having bought two mares in the past 5 years, I did secretly hope that I would get a BOGOF as I would never really be in the situation where I would intentionally breed.  If you can arrange for a non grey filly on my birthday (12th June), that would be perfect!  Seriously though, hope all goes well and that the foal turns out to be a happy, if not intended outcome.


----------



## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

At the yard. Took some photos of horsey porn.


----------



## EllenJay (7 June 2021)

Grey colt - 10th June


----------



## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

And here’s teen mum.


----------



## Peregrine Falcon (7 June 2021)

Hollowing in hindquarters, long vulva and teats pointing downwards=pretty damn close. How pink/red is she inside? That's a good indicator too.


----------



## Asha (7 June 2021)

After seeing that vulva Im changing my bet .. dun colt arriving Wednesday night 😬


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (7 June 2021)

Filly arriving tomorrow or Weds early morning.


----------



## fiwen30 (7 June 2021)

Bay colt, white face, arriving tomorrow!


----------



## brighteyes (7 June 2021)

I'm guessing it'll be a foal and the apple of CI's eye. We'll all run for the hills if it is Gypsum's double!


----------



## Equine_Dream (7 June 2021)

Bay colt arriving Wednesday night


----------



## Equine_Dream (7 June 2021)

Also OP I'm sorry this wasn't the outcome you wanted. I hope everything goes well with the foaling and you have a beautiful healthy new arrival.


----------



## Ownedby4horses (7 June 2021)

I’m betting on a Dun filly, arriving tomorrow morning. 🤞


----------



## Emilieu (7 June 2021)

Bay filly. Two white socks and a star (because Gypsum). 0.45 tomorrow morning (because I don’t want another disturbed night’s sleep)


----------



## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

We set up our CCTV.


----------



## Bellaboo18 (7 June 2021)

Bay filly born on 11th June, hopefully at a respectable time.

It's all very exciting! 😃


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## Midlifecrisis (7 June 2021)

Tomorrow morning I think……


----------



## AShetlandBitMeOnce (7 June 2021)

I'm going grey colt, early Thursday morning


----------



## TheresaW (7 June 2021)

So exciting.


----------



## Abi90 (7 June 2021)

Deleted, in wrong thread


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## PurBee (7 June 2021)

Narrowing down a time to 1.5hr window between 10am-12.30 thurs 10th june. (Scottish time!)

2 days 12hrs away...


----------



## D66 (7 June 2021)

Dun colt - tomorrow.


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## PurBee (7 June 2021)

Abi90 said:



			Bit of a surprise. Everyone meet Thyme. Born in the field in broad daylight 30 minutes ago. Up and drinking already

View attachment 73247
View attachment 73248

Click to expand...

Lovely! we have a foal to whet our whistle and gush at 😁
Thyme is a gorgeous name. mum looks relieved and proud!


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## Abi90 (7 June 2021)

Oh I posted on the wrong thread!
I’m sorry CI if stolen your glory


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## tda (7 June 2021)

Goldenstar said:



			That‘s a thing you can’t assume anything from a maiden mare .
		
Click to expand...

This! 🙄😁


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## nikicb (7 June 2021)

Abi90 said:



			Oh I posted on the wrong thread!
I’m sorry CI if stolen your glory
		
Click to expand...

Thyme is beautiful!  Many congratulations.  I am missing the foal Friday thread from last year, so if you would oblige with starting one for this year later in the week, I am sure I wouldn't be the only person to enjoy it!!


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## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

Abi90 said:



			Oh I posted on the wrong thread!
I’m sorry CI if stolen your glory
		
Click to expand...

No worries. Is this another BOGOF? They’re catching.


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## wills_91 (7 June 2021)

@Caol Ila on behalf of everyone else I volunteer myself to visit foalie when it is here to verify cuteness 😍

I'm going for a dun filly on Wednesday.


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## Abi90 (7 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			No worries. Is this another BOGOF? They’re catching.
		
Click to expand...

no this was planned. I wish you a quick delivery! That comes soon!


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## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

The internet loves Bogofs. I put a short post on shitedressageunite and it has collected more than 600 likes. Wish my damned novel could do as well.


----------



## katastrophykat (7 June 2021)

Can you pop a live feed up and we’ll take it in shifts to watch so you can sleep? 😂


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## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

It’s running off my phone data, so unfortunately not.


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## PurBee (7 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			The internet loves Bogofs. I put a short post on shitedressageunite and it has collected more than 600 likes. Wish my damned novel could do as well.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, i need putting out of my misery in this acronymic world...

what does BOGOF mean?

ive been doing a quiz with myself working it out, and most conclusions shouldnt be typed...considering it relates to a surprise foal!

just writing this has me thinking its maybe ‘breeder originated gestation of foal’?

my funniest one was 
“is that mare in foal?”
”Bog-off!!”


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## Caol Ila (7 June 2021)

Buy One Get One Free


----------



## Ceriza (7 June 2021)

PurBee said:



			Ok, i need putting out of my misery in this acronymic world...

what does BOGOF mean?
Buy one get one free
ive been doing a quiz with myself working it out, and most conclusions shouldnt be typed...considering it relates to a surprise foal!

just writing this has me thinking its maybe ‘breeder originated gestation of foal’?

my funniest one was 
“is that mare in foal?”
”Bog-off!!”
		
Click to expand...


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## Amymay (7 June 2021)

Buy One Get One Free.....


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## Coblover63 (7 June 2021)

I hope she has it on Friday..... that's my birthday 😊


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## PurBee (7 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Buy One Get One Free
		
Click to expand...

ahhhh of course....quite obvious really! 😂


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## Not_so_brave_anymore (7 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			The internet loves Bogofs. I put a short post on shitedressageunite and it has collected more than 600 likes. Wish my damned novel could do as well.
		
Click to expand...

Well, now you know what to write the next novel about 😉


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## meleeka (7 June 2021)

Bay colt is my prediction.  OP are you feeling a little more positive now?  It might not have been planned, but even you must be a little excited?


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## OldNag (7 June 2021)

meleeka said:



			Bay colt is my prediction.
		
Click to expand...

Are we having a sweepstake?
I reckon filly.
I know naff all about colour genetics etc but will go for chestnut.
Edit: forgot time prediction.
3.45am Wednesday 9th.


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## HobleytheTB (7 June 2021)

Bay filly, born Friday in the early hours. One white sock, star on the face...


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## hobo (7 June 2021)

Wow that camera is really good so bright and clear.


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## Emilieu (7 June 2021)

Emilieu said:



			Bay filly. Two white socks and a star (because Gypsum). 0.45 tomorrow morning (because I don’t want another disturbed night’s sleep)
		
Click to expand...

Right wee yin. Get pushing!


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## Goldenstar (7 June 2021)

We just it here nice and healthly


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## Caol Ila (8 June 2021)

Camera has stopped working. Dammit. Not a lot I can do about it now. There are probably settings and bugs with making it work overnight without over-using its battery that we didn't figure out. It's not like she gave us much time to test it in the garden. 

YO and husband are also keeping an eye on her, and she's right outside their house.

For you guys who use these, how do you make it work?


----------



## FinnishLapphund (8 June 2021)

Sorry, don't know anything about how to get remote cameras to start working again. If it can't be fixed by first running a cleaning program, and then restarting my device, it's basically beyond my knowledge.

Fingers crossed all goes well with the foaling, whenever it happens.


----------



## Fraggle2 (8 June 2021)

Just checking in as working a night shift


----------



## Surbie (8 June 2021)

Dun filly, with a white hind sock and a star.

Hope you get your camera issues sorted.

(also insomniac, waiting till I am allowed on the yard...!)


----------



## Sandstone1 (8 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Camera has stopped working. Dammit. Not a lot I can do about it now. There are probably settings and bugs with making it work overnight without over-using its battery that we didn't figure out. It's not like she gave us much time to test it in the garden.

YO and husband are also keeping an eye on her, and she's right outside their house.

For you guys who use these, how do you make it work?
		
Click to expand...

From memory when I got mine you register the sim with vodaphone, you do that though a app, you charge the camera.  Put the data sim and sd card in.  You download the app for the camera.  You set a password etc and thats pretty much it.  It came with very clear instructions and the camera talks to you as you go giving instructions.  This was the reolink go.   Maybe yours its not fully charged or something.   Mine was really simple to set up and I am really not techy at all.


----------



## milliepops (8 June 2021)

Sandstone1 said:



			From memory when I got mine you register the sim with vodaphone, you do that though a app, you charge the camera.  Put the data sim and sd card in.  You download the app for the camera.  You set a password etc and thats pretty much it.  It came with very clear instructions and the camera talks to you as you go giving instructions.  This was the reolink go.   Maybe yours its not fully charged or something.   Mine was really simple to set up and I am really not techy at all.
		
Click to expand...

Same. Plus I turned down any of the sensitivity settings around notifications or recording stuff when triggered by movement because I mainly use mine for live viewing and don't want my phone pinging every 10 mins 😄


----------



## meleeka (8 June 2021)

Did you make sure the batteries were charged before you set it up?  There’s sensitivity settings you could change.  I think yours looks the same as my friends and there’s also a light on it.  Make sure that’s off unless you need it.


----------



## Emilieu (8 June 2021)

Times woke to check re foal: 1 (better) 
Dreams about Hermosa: 1 (over invested) 
Bad dreams about other things caused by anxiety: 1 (over anxious)


----------



## Caol Ila (8 June 2021)

No baby. Camera still not connecting. It worked perfectly from six until midnight. We charged it in the house and the car before we got to the bar, so it was about 96% charged when we left it.

There might be a light on. Once it got dark, the top of the fencepost it's on was glowing bright white, but the horse and everything else was pretty grainy. OH and I will go once he's off work. He works at an engineering firm and is a lot techier than me. 

Ugh, I wish this foal would hurry up. The waiting is knackering.


----------



## Fjord (8 June 2021)

I've only just caught up with this! I hope you are feeling more positive OP and foal hurries up.


----------



## Sandstone1 (8 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			No baby. Camera still not connecting. It worked perfectly from six until midnight. We charged it in the house and the car before we got to the bar, so it was about 96% charged when we left it.

There might be a light on. Once it got dark, the top of the fencepost it's on was glowing bright white, but the horse and everything else was pretty grainy. OH and I will go once he's off work. He works at an engineering firm and is a lot techier than me.

Ugh, I wish this foal would hurry up. The waiting is knackering.
		
Click to expand...

You can change the settings to get a better picture.  Hopefully its just teething problems with the camera.   Fingers crossed for a baby soon!


----------



## Rosemary28 (8 June 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Here you go CI. Something to make you broody.

View attachment 73105
View attachment 73106
View attachment 73107
View attachment 73108
View attachment 73109

Click to expand...

Completely and utterly off topic, but my OH must have been working up near you this morning because he sent me a picture of this foal!


----------



## Roxylola (8 June 2021)

There's some issues with the entire Internet at the moment, it might not be the camera at fault - someone linked to a bbc thread about it. British eventing is one of the ones affected


----------



## Ambers Echo (8 June 2021)

Rosemary28 said:



			Completely and utterly off topic, but my OH must have been working up near you this morning because he sent me a picture of this foal! 

Click to expand...

She does attract attention. She's ridiculously cute. But we are way down a dead end lane so normally it's just walkers/bikers who see her so that is a real co-incidence! x


----------



## Slightlyconfused (8 June 2021)

I think the weekend, or Friday morning ish 
It's supposed to really heat up so being Spanish she could be waiting for the heat to come 🤔


----------



## Rosemary28 (8 June 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			She does attract attention. She's ridiculously cute. But we are way down a dead end lane so normally it's just walkers/bikers who see her so that is a real co-incidence! x
		
Click to expand...

He’s a chimney sweep, so he ends up in all sorts of interesting places!


----------



## Surbie (8 June 2021)

Come ON Foaly!!!


Taps foot...


----------



## Gloi (8 June 2021)

I go for bay filly on the 18th


----------



## pistolpete (8 June 2021)

I’ve joined Foalwatch!  Id love nothing more than a baby foal but won’t be getting one any time soon. Everything crossed this little one arrives safely and well.


----------



## Caol Ila (8 June 2021)

She looks miserable today and she’s dripping milk now. This thing has gotta come soon.


----------



## Abi90 (8 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She looks miserable today and she’s dripping milk now. This thing has gotta come soon.
		
Click to expand...

That was Rosie this time yesterday. Foal arrived 2 hours later! Fingers crossed for you


----------



## Zuzan (8 June 2021)

Wishing you and the teenage mum to be all the best.


----------



## PapaverFollis (8 June 2021)

Fingers crossed for a safe arrival very soon.


----------



## meleeka (8 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She looks miserable today and she’s dripping milk now. This thing has gotta come soon.
		
Click to expand...

That sounds positive!  I don’t think you’ll have long to wait now.


----------



## Emilieu (8 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She looks miserable today and she’s dripping milk now. This thing has gotta come soon.
		
Click to expand...

Come on wee yin!


----------



## Sandstone1 (8 June 2021)

Maybe tonight then?


----------



## Berpisc (8 June 2021)

Ooo fingers crossed


----------



## CanteringCarrot (8 June 2021)

Fingers crossed!


----------



## MrsMozart (8 June 2021)

I keep hopping back in to check 🧐

< taps fingers impatiently on the keyboard >


----------



## pistolpete (8 June 2021)

🤞🤞🤞 all goes well.


----------



## Gloi (8 June 2021)

Looks like tonight then 🙂


----------



## milliepops (8 June 2021)

Yup mine started dripping in the afternoon and then popped in the evening.  🤞


----------



## Stressymummy (8 June 2021)

Wishing you good luck! 

This reminds me of the "Tessybear" thread a few years back , she produced a beautiful bogoff baby called Dolly.


----------



## Spirit2021 (8 June 2021)

Good luck


----------



## scats (8 June 2021)

So exciting! Got everything crossed for a straightforward delivery!


----------



## Emilieu (8 June 2021)

*refreshes* 



*refreshes again*


----------



## Sussexbythesea (8 June 2021)

Stressymummy said:



			Wishing you good luck!

This reminds me of the "Tessybear" thread a few years back , she produced a beautiful bogoff baby called Dolly.

Click to expand...

I loved that thread but Tessy took a very long time to pop if I recall. I’ve just looked at the Dolly Mixture page and it was 8 years ago!


----------



## Asha (8 June 2021)

milliepops said:



			Yup mine started dripping in the afternoon and then popped in the evening.  🤞
		
Click to expand...

mine too... will be thread watching tonight


----------



## splashgirl45 (8 June 2021)

fingers crossed and good luck


----------



## Amymay (8 June 2021)

Good luck xx


----------



## Goldenstar (8 June 2021)

It’s likely to be tonight


----------



## SatansLittleHelper (8 June 2021)

Keeping everything crossed for you and Hermosa that it's a nice, easy foaling....Good luck..will be waiting with bated breath..!!!! X


----------



## rabatsa (8 June 2021)

Fingers crossed foalie arrives safely.


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (8 June 2021)

Fingers crossed


----------



## Red-1 (8 June 2021)

Oooh, will jump back on this thread early morning! Good luck!


----------



## mossycup (8 June 2021)

Have been following but haven't commented as yet - shamelessly placemarking ahead of baby news!


----------



## Andalucian (8 June 2021)

Wishing you a happy arrival very soon, it'll be a blessing, albeit not what you had planned xx


----------



## Baywonder (8 June 2021)

Good luck @Caol Ila!  I hope you don't have much longer to wait!


----------



## Sam_J (8 June 2021)

Haven't commented so far, but eagerly awaiting updates!  Good luck @Caol Ila  hope it all goes smoothy!


----------



## Cavalier (8 June 2021)

Good luck, I hope all goes well. 🤞


----------



## ArklePig (8 June 2021)

Fingers crossed for a baby soon. I vote bay filly with a white star (based off nothing 😂) also, placemarking.


----------



## Melody Grey (8 June 2021)

Fingers crossed that your ‘unexpected item in the bagging’ area is soon checked out safely!

credit to whoever used this phrase earlier on in the thread- it did amuse me greatly!!


----------



## Baroque (8 June 2021)

Good luck, and here's hoping for a safe delivery very soon.


----------



## EllenJay (8 June 2021)

No - tell her to keep her legs crossed for another day - my vote was the 10th 😄


----------



## Stressymummy (8 June 2021)

Sussexbythesea said:



			I loved that thread but Tessy took a very long time to pop if I recall. I’ve just looked at the Dolly Mixture page and it was 8 years ago![/QUOT
It was a long wait !
We were all shouting "Push Tessy push" by the end of it !
		
Click to expand...


----------



## vmac66 (8 June 2021)

Fingers crossed. Hope all goes well


----------



## Caol Ila (8 June 2021)

Mine most of all. YO was a wee bit concerned about mastitis so called the vet. Vet said that if this foal doesn’t show up tonight, call her ASAP tomorrow.

This damned thing better show its face tonight.


----------



## Stressymummy (8 June 2021)

Sorry! sussexbythesea I still cant get the hang off this quote and reply thing!


----------



## Sandstone1 (8 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Mine most of all. YO was a wee bit concerned about mastitis so called the vet. Vet said that if this foal doesn’t show up tonight, call her ASAP tomorrow.

This damned thing better show its face tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Nature will take its course I guess, really hope once it arrives you will come to love it, after all its not the foals fault its unwanted.


----------



## Surbie (8 June 2021)

Good luck!Looking forward to foaly pics


----------



## Peregrine Falcon (8 June 2021)

Early hrs of morning. My first "grandpony" was born after his dam started running milk 3pm, born following morning about 5/6am.


----------



## Laurac13 (8 June 2021)

Good luck 🤞 fingers crossed all goes smoothly x sounds like the foal will arrive tonight/ early hours
Predicting a bay filly
Can’t wait to see pics of baby and proud teenage girlie mummy 😊


----------



## Rosemary28 (8 June 2021)

Good luck CI, fingers crossed!


----------



## Caol Ila (8 June 2021)

All I want now is a smooth birth and healthy mum and baby.


----------



## babymare (8 June 2021)

Eeeeeeekkkkkk exciting


----------



## babymare (8 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			All I want now is a smooth birth and healthy mum and baby.
		
Click to expand...

We are all with you x


----------



## Jules111 (8 June 2021)

Sending you all positive vibes and big hugs xxxxx


----------



## Caol Ila (8 June 2021)

I'm home  but I've got my camera up and running. She's walking back and forth across the field and tossing her head and swishing her tail. A lot.


----------



## Regandal (8 June 2021)

Sounds like she’s close. Fingers crossed x


----------



## Spotherisk (8 June 2021)

I was surprised how quick it was between the waters breaking and the actual birth, I think 20 minutes.  Ellie (Spot the Risk) would have been 15 today, her dam very kindly foaled at 8.15am!


----------



## HobleytheTB (8 June 2021)

Well, looks like I'll be checking this thread anytime I wake up during the night.....

Good luck, hope all goes smoothly and we can all enjoy some cute foal pics tomorrow


----------



## meleeka (8 June 2021)

Just checking in before bed and sending good luck vibes.  Let’s hope the camera doesn’t let you down tonight.  Keep checking often, you don’t want to miss it now!


----------



## Mule (8 June 2021)

Good luck Caol Ila, I hope everything goes well. Fwiw I have 2 friends with bogofs, neither were happy about it, but when the baby arrived they loved it. It might happen for you too. Anyway that's for later on, good luck with the foaling


----------



## InklePickle (8 June 2021)

Sna



HobleytheTB said:



			Well, looks like I'll be checking this thread anytime I wake up during the night.....

Good luck, hope all goes smoothly and we can all enjoy some cute foal pics tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

Snap, I was looking enough that my bogof arrived the first night of foal watch


----------



## Casey76 (8 June 2021)

Best of luck for tonight - hope you manage to get some rest!


----------



## LadyGascoyne (8 June 2021)

Eeek excited!


----------



## hoofprints1994 (8 June 2021)

Super exciting! Good luck and hope everything goes smoothly!


----------



## maya2008 (8 June 2021)

Good luck, I hope all goes well and you have a little one by morning!


----------



## Nicnac (8 June 2021)

Off to bed - good luck Hermosa and CI!


----------



## shortstuff99 (8 June 2021)

Good luck!


----------



## fiwen30 (8 June 2021)

Good vibes to all parties!


----------



## Dave's Mam (8 June 2021)

Good Luck!


----------



## LadyGascoyne (8 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She looks miserable today and she’s dripping milk now. This thing has gotta come soon.
		
Click to expand...

Ah, thing seems harsh. Let’s call it la cosa. 

But I’ll defer to anyone with a better knowledge of Spanish.


----------



## OldNag (8 June 2021)

Exciting!  I may be right on my timing prediction then, if nothing else  (I went for 3 45 am Wednesday). 

Come on Hermosa, you can do it x


----------



## I'm Dun (9 June 2021)

OldNag said:



			Exciting!  I may be right on my timing prediction then, if nothing else  (I went for 3 45 am Wednesday).

Come on Hermosa, you can do it x
		
Click to expand...

I'm going for 2.18am and a bay dun colt going grey


----------



## SatansLittleHelper (9 June 2021)

2.30am, colt...can't decide on colour 🤔🤔 but solid, no white


----------



## PurBee (9 June 2021)

My mares actual birthday is the 9th june too....its quite late and i havent done a horsey carrot cake!

Hermosa sounds close...ohhh such tenter hooks of anticipation....fingers firmly crossed for a swift and smooth foaling!
It’s brill you got the cam set up. Shame it doesnt have movement recognition to sound an alarm if she lays down lol
Thats tech for the next generation of foaling cams 🙂


----------



## Sussexbythesea (9 June 2021)

It’s 1.08am and I just happen to have woken up so...


----------



## FlyingCircus (9 June 2021)

I'm doing a foal dance...!


----------



## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

Still pacing on the camera. This is harrowing.


----------



## SatansLittleHelper (9 June 2021)

Poor girl    Your stress levels must be through the roof 🙈🙈🙈


----------



## Emilieu (9 June 2021)

Just checking....


----------



## katastrophykat (9 June 2021)

Just checking in too!


----------



## SatansLittleHelper (9 June 2021)

*drums fingers on the table* 😴


----------



## Emilieu (9 June 2021)

Peeks in


----------



## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

Ahh, the suspense!


----------



## Spotherisk (9 June 2021)

Oh I hope she has foaled safely.


----------



## Sussexbythesea (9 June 2021)

Me again.. hoping all is well


----------



## Red-1 (9 June 2021)

Noooo, it's morning and no update!!!


----------



## Amymay (9 June 2021)

Checking in.


----------



## Sandstone1 (9 June 2021)

Any news?


----------



## rabatsa (9 June 2021)

Hoping that no news is good news.


----------



## Shady (9 June 2021)

My friend's filly came whilst she was sitting on the loo.......


----------



## InklePickle (9 June 2021)

Mine came whilst trying to find the lorry inside lights. Hope baby H has arrived safely


----------



## Berpisc (9 June 2021)

Another one checking in with fingers crossed


----------



## Cavalier (9 June 2021)

And another checking in. I hope all is going well.


----------



## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

Waiting...waiting...anticipating!


I did say similar colored filly within 3 days, but now due to this wait time I have had time for second guessing and it could be a colt. 🤔 ah, who knows! Just get here soon and safe!


----------



## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

I have a knot in my stomach!


----------



## wills_91 (9 June 2021)

Pre work check for the dun filly I thought would be today 😊 x


----------



## Wheresthehoofpick (9 June 2021)

Shamelessly place marking. This is the most excitement I've had in weeks.


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (9 June 2021)

Hope all ok CI x


----------



## OldNag (9 June 2021)

Wheresthehoofpick said:



			Shamelessly place marking. This is the most excitement I've had in weeks.
		
Click to expand...

Me too!


----------



## Dustygirl (9 June 2021)

Hope all’s ok


----------



## Clodagh (9 June 2021)

Dustygirl said:



			Hope all’s ok
		
Click to expand...

Same. 🤞


----------



## Peregrine Falcon (9 June 2021)

These mares, sorry filly in this case, do like to keep us waiting.


----------



## littleshetland (9 June 2021)

Just logged in......logging out - I'll come back in half an hour!


----------



## Spotherisk (9 June 2021)

Done my third couch 2 5k run and fed the puppy, will be back after my shower!


----------



## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

Just looking at the start-date of this post - 7 days ago...


----------



## Cavalier (9 June 2021)

What a rollercoaster ride in 7 days!


----------



## Lipglosspukka (9 June 2021)

It's nearly 8am!? Tell us!


----------



## Baywonder (9 June 2021)

<<goes to make another cup of coffee>> 😁


----------



## Carmen6 (9 June 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Just looking at the start-date of this post - 7 days ago...
		
Click to expand...

It's like a teenage concealed pregnancy.

"SURPRISE!!"


----------



## MrsMozart (9 June 2021)

< wanders in, peers intently at every reply, wanders out again >


----------



## Floofball (9 June 2021)

Wow - what a thread!! Only saw it this morning and I’ve never flown through a thread as quickly 😃 got everything crossed for you all CI 🤞🏻


----------



## Fraggle2 (9 June 2021)

Washing up done, washing on,  kitchen cleaned. Will be back to check after my shower 🙂


----------



## Wheresthehoofpick (9 June 2021)

Just to warn you guys my friends maiden did this for 2.5 weeks. 
We were on our knees.


----------



## Trouper (9 June 2021)

So when is the vet coming?   I think there is going to be a collective meltdown on the Forum soon.


----------



## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

Yes, our maiden did this but only for a day, before foaling. 

Might be the clover... *runs away*


----------



## meleeka (9 June 2021)

Wheresthehoofpick said:



			Just to warn you guys my friends maiden did this for 2.5 weeks.
We were on our knees.
		
Click to expand...

This is strangely reassuring.  I do hope everything is ok and OP is just catching up on sleep 🤞🏻


----------



## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

Carmen6 said:



			It's like a teenage concealed pregnancy.

"SURPRISE!!" 

Click to expand...

Do not laugh - this exact thing happened to my friend. Saw her daughter on the Saturday, phone call on the Monday morning - 'Mum, I've just had a baby!' Daughter thought she had a bad tummy upset...


----------



## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

fraggle2 said:



			Washing up done, washing on,  kitchen cleaned. Will be back to check after my shower 🙂
		
Click to expand...

I just looked around my kitchen and feel I ought to do something. Mucking out the stables can wait.


----------



## Cavalier (9 June 2021)

Oh no, got to go into a couple of meetings. Can I check my phone under the table? I hope no news is good news


----------



## OldNag (9 June 2021)

Just finished a meeting and had to check back......  no news, I take it? Hope all OK.


----------



## babymare (9 June 2021)

Check in no 4 of the day 😃


----------



## Spotherisk (9 June 2021)

Just checking again before I deliver PPE to Covid carers…


----------



## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

Can't believe how invested we all are 😂


...over here hoping that no update means busy with foaling 😅


----------



## Fraggle2 (9 June 2021)

I've got a meeting at 10. So will check back just before I go in, and again when I come out 😉


----------



## BatHorse (9 June 2021)

I've been following this the whole way and the suspense is killing me. Come on foal! I'm going for bay filly, one white sock


----------



## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

Well, we did tell CI we'd be here to 'help' and she'd be fine and so would everything else.


----------



## Surbie (9 June 2021)

Reads 3 pages of people in suspense. Goes to make more coffee...

Fingers crossed all going well CI.

Dun filly, one white sock.


----------



## ycbm (9 June 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Can't believe how invested we all are 😂


...over here hoping that no update means busy with foaling 😅
		
Click to expand...

I'm not invested! 

I am checking this thread every 5 minutes only because I am concerned about whether CI got any sleep last night.
.


----------



## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

ycbm said:



			I'm not invested!

I am checking this thread every 5 minutes only because I am concerned about whether CI got any sleep last night.
.
		
Click to expand...

Riiiiighhhttt


----------



## Regandal (9 June 2021)

Bay colt, couple of white socks.


----------



## Ownedby4horses (9 June 2021)

Come on Hermosa!


----------



## Equine_Dream (9 June 2021)

I'm certainly not in the slightest bit invested..... just mildly curious

*checks thread for the 4th time this morning*


----------



## Sam_J (9 June 2021)

Not invested at all <surreptitiously checking for updates in the middle of a meeting>


----------



## OldNag (9 June 2021)

Equine_Dream said:



			I'm certainly not in the slightest bit invested..... just mildly curious

*checks thread for the 4th time this morning*
		
Click to expand...

4th time? Pffft, amateur 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## BallyJ (9 June 2021)

This isn't open on my work computer!!!


----------



## Red-1 (9 June 2021)

Dammit, 2 more pages while I was out swimming, am back now, no news!!! 

Will ride Riggers and check back...


----------



## [59668] (9 June 2021)

BallyJ said:



			This isn't open on my work computer!!!
		
Click to expand...

Same....absolutely not open on my work PC.....


----------



## SatansLittleHelper (9 June 2021)

I dont even like foals any way so........*blows raspberry *


----------



## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

Red-1 said:



			Dammit, 2 more pages while I was out swimming, am back now, no news!!!

Will ride Riggers and check back...
		
Click to expand...

Oh hush with your activity!


----------



## Spotherisk (9 June 2021)

Do we know what colour it might be? I can’t remember the colours of the colts. Dilute colt would be lovely (and worth more if op wants to sell).


----------



## cauda equina (9 June 2021)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I dont even like foals any way so........*blows raspberry *
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Merrymoles (9 June 2021)

Oh blimey - have just abandoned all work to catch up and there's been nothing from CI for agggggeeeeess! Everything crossed that she is far too busy having foal cuddles to be anywhere near a keyboard....


----------



## Tarragon (9 June 2021)

Oh no! I was so hoping that there would be some news by now


----------



## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

She kept everyone on tenterhooks. Waited for us to call the vet at 9 am before having a wee colt at 9:05. Fired him out in less time than it took me to drive to the barn.

I’m giving them space so apologies for crap photos.
On his feet the first time at 10.


----------



## cauda equina (9 June 2021)

Congratulations! What a gorgeous boy!!!!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## bonny (9 June 2021)

So pleased to see that beautiful foal xx


----------



## Meowy Catkin (9 June 2021)

Wonderful update! Lovely foal!


----------



## DabDab (9 June 2021)

Yayyy!!!!! Congrats Hermosa and everyone involved. You must be so relieved. Clever teenage mum - love how she went all out for dramatic effect though


----------



## Lurfy (9 June 2021)

Congratulations on your surprise foal, he is a beauty!


----------



## D66 (9 June 2021)

congratulations!
If you still dont want him, I'll have him.


----------



## OrangeAndLemon (9 June 2021)

Congratulations, so pleased it was straightforward and you can now get some sleep (and foal cuddles)


----------



## NinjaPony (9 June 2021)

Congratulations! So pleased that after all the drama and heartache that the foaling was smooth and you have a beautiful healthy colt. Mum and baby are both lovely, I logged in to check for an update at the right time!


----------



## nikicb (9 June 2021)

Gorgeous!!  Congratulations and I really hope you enjoy him once all the shock of the last week has sunk in.  xx


----------



## PapaverFollis (9 June 2021)

YAY! 😁

I love the picture where she's got one ear on you and one on the foal...


----------



## Laurac13 (9 June 2021)

Lovely news congratulations 🥳


----------



## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

Meeeep! Oh how wonderful! Oh my days... Congratulations!!!!


----------



## maddielove (9 June 2021)

Doesn't she look so proud of him in the second last photo, gorgeous wee boy!
Glad all went smoothly, congratulations!


----------



## alibali (9 June 2021)

Congratulations, absolutely gorgeous! And a decent night's sleep for you tonight 😊


----------



## vmac66 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations. Beautiful boy and clever Mum.


----------



## meleeka (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!!! What wonderful news!   Well done Hermosa.  Hope you can get some rest now and so can she x


----------



## OldNag (9 June 2021)

Aww that's really made my day. 
Congratulations all round


----------



## Regandal (9 June 2021)

Fabulous! Xx


----------



## Melody Grey (9 June 2021)

Great!! Will look forward to cheeky foal updates!! So glad everything went smoothly!! Xx


----------



## shortstuff99 (9 June 2021)

Ah he looks lovely!


----------



## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

He’s still looking for the teat. Keeps walking under her belly.


----------



## littleshetland (9 June 2021)

Fabulous!  so chuffed for you ......he's gorgeous, like his mum.


----------



## Zuzan (9 June 2021)

aww  .. lovely so glad it was a easy foaling.


----------



## Equine_Dream (9 June 2021)

Eeeeee! Congratulations what a beautiful little fella.


----------



## BallyJ (9 June 2021)

He's beautiful! Congratulations!!!!


----------



## wiglet (9 June 2021)

Awww... congratulations!! I mean who doesn't love a foal!! He looks gorgeous


----------



## rabatsa (9 June 2021)

Congratulations.  Now the watching can be fun.


----------



## Sussexbythesea (9 June 2021)

Absolutely gorgeous 🥰 congratulations 🥳


----------



## Spanny (9 June 2021)

Beautiful mum and baby! Hermosa looks both a little confused and also proud. I hope you have a happy time with both of them!


----------



## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

Yay! I knew I was feeling more of a "colt vibe" this morning 🤣 so glad that the birth went smoothly. 

I am so incredibly jealous. I want a bogof PRE! And to spend the summer watching a wee one. A little line bred isn't the end of the world. Especially if the lines are good/produce a nice foal 😉


----------



## scats (9 June 2021)

Amazing news! Well done Hermosa!
Congratulations CI, you’re a grandma now!


----------



## poacher82 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!!!! So pleased he's arrived safely for you!


----------



## Asha (9 June 2021)

Fabulous news.  What a little cracker


----------



## Stressymummy (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!!!!!!
What a gorgeous little man !


----------



## twiggy2 (9 June 2021)

Great news and now breathe


----------



## Lindylouanne (9 June 2021)

Congratulations, he looks gorgeous.


----------



## Emilieu (9 June 2021)

Oh he’s here!!!! And I would like to commend Hermosa on her timing. My friend’s horse is going on her last journey this morning and I needed that wee bit of sunshine in my day. (That said Hermosa, crap timing re weather, didn’t you want to enjoy your baby in the lovely sunshine?)


----------



## TheresaW (9 June 2021)

Congratulations. He looks beautiful. Well done Hermosa.


----------



## Merrymoles (9 June 2021)

That'll teach me to leave this thread for half an hour to get some work done!

Congratulations CI and Hermosa!


----------



## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

He needs a name that isn’t Gypsum’s Last Piss Take or Unexpected Item in the Bagging Area.


----------



## tda (9 June 2021)

Congratulations.  Is your vet still there? I'd want him suckling very soon, especially as she has been running milk a bit.


----------



## holeymoley (9 June 2021)

Awwh! So cute! He’s lovely. 

I’ve been sitting keeping quiet on this thread awaiting. I was one that thought he was a grass belly!


----------



## Ambers Echo (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!!!


----------



## Emilieu (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			He needs a name that isn’t Gypsum’s Last Piss Take or Unexpected Item in the Bagging Area.
		
Click to expand...

Panic Button


----------



## Britestar (9 June 2021)

Congrats on your baby,  and welcome to wasting hours at a time watching him. 😊


----------



## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

Vet said give it two hours. He’s been really really close a couple times.


----------



## Equine_Dream (9 June 2021)

Emilieu said:



			Panic Button
		
Click to expand...

Love it! 🤣 although I quite liked "unexpected item in bagging area"


----------



## meleeka (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Vet said give it two hours. He’s been really really close a couple times.
		
Click to expand...

 I’m always amazed how nature sorts itself out.  It just shows how rubbish the human race is when you think it can take weeks for babies to establish feeding. 

It’s a good sign that he was on his feet so quickly so hopefully it won’t be long.


----------



## Lexi_ (9 June 2021)

He’s beautiful! Clever Hermosa. 

I love Unexpected Item in the Bagging Area as a name 😂


----------



## only_me (9 June 2021)

I actually like the name “unexpected baggage ” 😂

“Gypsum magic” 

“the last laugh”


----------



## Jeni the dragon (9 June 2021)

Congratulations! He looks lovely! Now fingers crossed he finds the milk bar shortly!


----------



## PapaverFollis (9 June 2021)

The Last Laugh was the registered name of MrPF's old boy.  His everyday name was Jester.


----------



## Shady (9 June 2021)

Congratulations, he's lovely
I am so busy today, but for some reason I just had to have a few extra cups of tea this morning .... xxxxxx


----------



## wispagold (9 June 2021)

Congratulations! Beautiful baby and very proud mum! 

Love the name suggestions!


----------



## Spotherisk (9 June 2021)

I do like Panic Button! 🤣


----------



## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

He’s found the milk bar.


----------



## only_me (9 June 2021)

Could always spell it as
“The last laff” lol


----------



## Ssarrahh (9 June 2021)

You could call him Clover 🤣


----------



## OrangeAndLemon (9 June 2021)

Spotherisk said:



			I do like Panic Button! 🤣
		
Click to expand...

With Button as his stable name


----------



## mossycup (9 June 2021)

Oh he looks super! Congratulations


----------



## hoofprints1994 (9 June 2021)

Clever boy! Glad he has figured it out. Congratulations he is gorgeous - what a whirlwind since you started this thread! Enjoy this special time


----------



## Pinkvboots (9 June 2021)

Bless him his lovely so happy for you


----------



## Cavalier (9 June 2021)

Congratulations! He’s beautiful. Bilbo Baggins?


----------



## littleshetland (9 June 2021)

'Panic Button'.....I like that.


----------



## Rumtytum (9 June 2021)

Been following, had nothing sensible to say but now I have: Congratulations 😀!


----------



## FireCracker238 (9 June 2021)

I can't remember who it was, but "Gypsum"s Gift" was suggested earlier, thought that was a nice, thoughtful name. No idea about an everyday name tho. Are we thinking something Spanish like mum?


----------



## PapaverFollis (9 June 2021)

La risa.

Laugh in Spanish.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (9 June 2021)

*Gerald.  

I like human names for horses and I think having it begin with a G is a nice, subtle nod to Gypsum. 



*OK, other names beginning with G are available.


----------



## Emilieu (9 June 2021)

A reference to 'sun' as a counter to Gypsum's 'moon' as a link to his Spanish heritage?

Hermosa's Sunshine on Snow Wood


----------



## PapaverFollis (9 June 2021)

What about Regalo?

"Gift" in Spanish.


----------



## babymare (9 June 2021)

Oh my word he is beautiful. Congratulations. I’m smiling like Cheshire Cat for you 😍😍


----------



## HBB (9 June 2021)

Oh wow!!! He is stunning! Huge congratulations ♥️


----------



## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

Inesperado (unexpected)...for a name  


Or

Sol favorito

It means Favourite Sun
sort of a play on favourite son

I'm no good at names, just feel like it needs some Spanish flair.


----------



## Lammy (9 June 2021)

Congrats CI! 🥳 I hope you can enjoy him more now that he’s arrived safely.

I like Panic Button and The Last Laugh. Also like Geoff as a stable name but it’s not very Spanish 😂


----------



## Marnie (9 June 2021)

Congratulations, I'm really pleased that everything has gone smoothly and he is beautiful x


----------



## Kkst14 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations. How about Regalo which I think means gift keeps with Spanish theme


----------



## Rosemary28 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations! What a little stunner xx


----------



## southerncomfort (9 June 2021)

❤❤❤ Gorgeous!! Congrats!


----------



## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

Oooh liking Regalo too!


----------



## ITPersonnage (9 June 2021)

Yay ay last  Many congratulations to all of the team, happy little boy and his Mum, so cute they're almost edible. Lovely.


----------



## Amymay (9 June 2021)

Many, many congratulations 🥳 

💕💕💕💕💕💕


----------



## milliepops (9 June 2021)

Pleased it all went smoothly  you'll sleep well tonight!


----------



## Squeak (9 June 2021)

Congratulations.  He's absolutely stunning and so relieved that it was a smooth birth.


----------



## Fransurrey (9 June 2021)

Congratulations! Looks quite dun in the pics. Didn't someone say that's quite unusual in PRE or Spanish? He's gorgeous whatever.


----------



## Errin Paddywack (9 June 2021)

So very relieved and pleased that he is here safely and now suckling.  Now hopefully you can enjoy them both.


----------



## Emilieu (9 June 2021)

If he is dun then Dun Deal? Since, you know, his arrival was a done deal from the start...


----------



## AandK (9 June 2021)

What a crazy thread, have been following it from the start and was one who thought it was just the grass... (same happened to my old mare) So pleased the little one has arrived safely this morning, congratulations but more pics please!


----------



## Laurac13 (9 June 2021)

“Arcoiris” is rainbow in spanish

thinking gypsum’s last gift to you from rainbow bridge x


----------



## SatansLittleHelper (9 June 2021)

Yayyyy congratulations..!!!!! Does he have any white on him..?? He looks like he is the solid coloured colt I predicted 😎
So pleased it all went so well x


----------



## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

Fransurrey said:



			Congratulations! Looks quite dun in the pics. Didn't someone say that's quite unusual in PRE or Spanish? He's gorgeous whatever. 

Click to expand...

I don't think it is soo rare, but I am not sure.

I've been windown shopping and exclusively looking at Buckskins and Duns, there are a fair amount out there. I am not sure about the actual genes of the Duns I have seen, though. I don't know which ones would be considered "true Dun" as I've heard people throw that term around. I haven't delved that deep.

My PRE is like a solid bay dun of sorts, similar in color to Hermosa (can fluctuate a bit with the seasons/coat). He has a very prominent dorsal stripe, tiger striping on his legs, and shading at the withers (which shows better sometimes than other times). I mean, he's just bay, but has features that other bays may not.


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## McFluff (9 June 2021)

Congratulations - he looks lovely.  You will enjoy having a wee time vampire


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## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

Love Button as a stable name and all the Spanish suggestions relating to gift.


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## indie1282 (9 June 2021)

Hermes 😁


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## Baywonder (9 June 2021)

Oh he is an absolute beauty!  😍😍

Well done Hermosa and well done @Caol Ila for holding everything together during your whirlwind week!


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## DarcyPercy (9 June 2021)

Congratulations! Such a beauty!


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## Apercrumbie (9 June 2021)

HOORAY! So glad both are safe and sound, I'm sure you're all very relieved. The next few weeks should be a LOT easier and I hope you rest well tonight.

But these wishes only apply if you keep posting pictures. Them's the rules


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## maya2008 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!


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## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

What a crazy week though. The thread was started about one week ago. 

From expecting nothing, to hmm could be enjoying the grass and clover a bit, to or?

Then boom. Pregnant. Due soon. Then foal! Wild ride!


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## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

indie1282 said:



			Hermes 😁
		
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Hahahaha - brilliant My Hermes possibly even better!


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## splashgirl45 (9 June 2021)

lovely boy, CONGRATULATIONS 

all i can think of is  surprise or out of the blue,  he looks like he might be her colouring to me.


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## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

Anyway, your camera broken? WE NEED PICTURES. We have been sitting up for a couple of nights now, after all.


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## Ownedby4horses (9 June 2021)

Oh wow! Lovely wee boy. Well done Hermosa and OP! So pleased for you. x


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## rabatsa (9 June 2021)

Magia Oculta means Hidden Magic


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## HeyMich (9 June 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Hahahaha - brilliant My Hermes possibly even better!
		
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"Hermes" as a stable name, and "Error - Unexpected Delivery" as a show name. Love it!

Congrats on your gorgeous new arrival, and well done for holding it all together this week! Phew!


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## Fjord (9 June 2021)

I'm so glad he has made an appearance and everything went smoothly. Clever girl Hermosa! I hope you can get some rest now OP.


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## Fraggle2 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations  Grandma. Now time to enjoy your new arrival. 🙂


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## Clodagh (9 June 2021)

I’m so pleased for you. Amazing. You must be an amazing person to not be rocking in a corner somewhere. Onwards and upwards for your new little man.


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## katastrophykat (9 June 2021)

I like Hermes! Never arrives when you want or need it to, always when you don’t 😂


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## wispagold (9 June 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Hahahaha - brilliant My Hermes possibly even better!
		
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This is genius as it is always unexpected when an item delivered by them actually arrives! The perfect name! 😂😂😂


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## SaddlePsych'D (9 June 2021)

Aw amazing! I did an audible 'whoop!' when I saw the pictures


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## Regandal (9 June 2021)

Regalo de Yeso. Gypsum’s gift.
Obviously Reg as a stable name!


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## FinnishLapphund (9 June 2021)

Congratulation @Caol Ila ! I know it's not the way you planned on getting a second horse, but at least it all went well. 

According to google translate:
Equipaje = Baggage, luggage.
Inesperado = Unexpected. 
Botón de pánico = Panic button.

Must admit that I'm a bit curious about if you've heard anything from Hermosa's breeder?


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## Fluffypiglet (9 June 2021)

Congratulations! I'm glad he's arrived safely and Mum and baby doing well. Looking forward to names and photos! Hope you get some rest (between hours of foal watching sessions)


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

She’s pretty protective of him so not letting anyone near. Hence rubbish photos. YO says leave them for the day and try to get in there tomorrow.

Haven’t contacted her breeder yet. On the fence as I was warned she could be weird.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (9 June 2021)

Congratulations CI, glad I got the day right and timing, just wrong sex lol x


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## SEL (9 June 2021)

Woohoo! Love a baby thread and he's gorgeous ☺ Really looking forward to more photos.

Ps you had more notice than a friend who called a vet out to her new cob mare for an emergency colic. Twas not colic and vet turned up just as baby was fired out.


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## OrangeAndLemon (9 June 2021)

I fear for the poor show announcers currently panicking at all of your Spanish suggestions. 

Even 'My Hermes'...is it "her-mees" or "er-mez" like the expensive brand.


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## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

If all looks well, then I would do as you are doing, just give them some time.

I don't think I would contact the breeder, personally. Unless I needed something for registering the foal.


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## Dyllymoo (9 June 2021)

Awwww congratulations! I'm so glad everything went well and you have a lovely little foal and mum looking healthy.  This has made my day


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## mustardsmum (9 June 2021)

Aw huge congratulations! He is beautiful!


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## Spirit2021 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations he is very pretty


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## Annagain (9 June 2021)

So pleased he’s here and all is well. Congratulations! I too love Regalo and Reg/Reggie, although Button is sweet. Gerald would be amazing too, as would Norman for no particular reason  other than I love a comedy human name for horses.


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## Spottyappy (9 June 2021)

Aw, so pleased for you. 
he looks a cracking foal.
Personally, I would contact the breeder, if only to get a covering certificate so you can register him,and both parents Are on there.


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## ponyparty (9 June 2021)

Aww congratulations! What a rollercoaster for you! Glad mare and foal both doing well.


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## Red-1 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!!!

So many lovely names!


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## Coblover63 (9 June 2021)

Blimey, a few hours at the yard and I've missed 6 pages..... so I guessed there was news!! 

I'm delighted that it all went well.  He looks gorgeous, huge congratulations.  How are you feeling, now that he's here?


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

I don’t know if I could get a covering certificate anyway because baby daddy could be one of (at least) three horses.


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## Sandstone1 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations.    Hope mare and foal well.


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## shortstuff99 (9 June 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			I don't think it is soo rare, but I am not sure.

I've been windown shopping and exclusively looking at Buckskins and Duns, there are a fair amount out there. I am not sure about the actual genes of the Duns I have seen, though. I don't know which ones would be considered "true Dun" as I've heard people throw that term around. I haven't delved that deep.

My PRE is like a solid bay dun of sorts, similar in color to Hermosa (can fluctuate a bit with the seasons/coat). He has a very prominent dorsal stripe, tiger striping on his legs, and shading at the withers (which shows better sometimes than other times). I mean, he's just bay, but has features that other bays may not.
		
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From what I remember there are only 3 true duns registered in the whole stud book. There are a lot of buckskins, ND1 and various dilutions now though.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I don’t know if I could get a covering certificate anyway because baby daddy could be one of (at least) three horses.
		
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You could insist on them getting them blood typed, but you'd need to get your foal done too.


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## CanteringCarrot (9 June 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			From what I remember there are only 3 true duns registered in the whole stud book. There are a lot of buckskins, ND1 and various dilutions now though.
		
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Ah yes, I was thinking there are some dun looking in phenotype but not true dun by genotype. I remember someone saying something about ND1 too, I just don't know a whole lot about it.


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## PapaverFollis (9 June 2021)

I'm not sure having the breeding recorded fully would be worth the potential hassle if the breeder decided to be an asshat somehow.  Especially not as it has been such a roller coaster already.   It's been a tough old week for you, CI. I would advise against adding potential complications at this point and just enjoy your new arrival and give yourself time to process your loss.


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## PapaverFollis (9 June 2021)

And process your gain for that matter!


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

One of the yard workers got some great photos of the birth.


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## Tarragon (9 June 2021)

Oh wow!!! Just stunning! so pleased for you


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## zandp (9 June 2021)

Wow, he's lovely, well done to Hermosa and well done to you for getting through a very stressful week.


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## Tarragon (9 June 2021)

Looks like I logged on to check just in time


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## PurBee (9 June 2021)

Just caught up from pg20...had a feeling she’s popped!

WOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!! 🥳🥳😁🥳🥳🥰

Congratulations! You must be sooo relieved CI! Massive well done for your stamina!
He’s a little darling...stood there wondering where the warm womb has gone....and 1 pic hermosa looks like she’s figuring out how come there’s 2 of her now 😂

She may be foal protective with YO, but i bet she’ll let you the closest as youre her person of trust and stability.

my mares birthday is today too. His birth day and hour will always be easy to remember -9am on the 9th june 🙂

So...he’s come out chestnutty...so could be a grey!! My grey came out that colour....looked like a deer in the field at first glance!

Huge hug...am so chuffed for you the foaling was quick and smooth. Ideal foaling.

Well done HHO crew for keeping spirits high with so much supportive encouragement! What an amazing forum this is! 👍


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## meleeka (9 June 2021)

oh those ears!  💕

I think i’d have to contact breeder to gloat.  I’m pretty sure she’d have no claim on baby anyway but would probably find that out for certain first.


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## Bellaboo18 (9 June 2021)

Fantastic news!!! 🥳🥳🥳 Congratulations!!


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## Regandal (9 June 2021)

Cracking pictures, CI.


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## Shady (9 June 2021)

Just stopping for some lunch, so obviously had to pop on here .
Those pictures of the birth are amazing.
I love the name Hermes!


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## Amymay (9 June 2021)

Great photos!

Just as aside, has the placenta been checked?


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## GG13 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations on the new arrival, he’s gorgeous. Glad everything went smoothly in the end.


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## Kat (9 June 2021)

Amazing photos and a beautiful boy! Congratulations!! 

I think his stable name should be Clover given that everyone thought he was just Clover 😂

Though I did view a horse years ago who's stable name was Freebie because he was a BOGOF foal.


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## Boulty (9 June 2021)

No helpful name suggestions (other than that unexpected baggage made me laugh!) but he's very cute & at least he's here safe.


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## Rowreach (9 June 2021)

Well that's turned out rather well!  Beautiful foal x


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## Emilieu (9 June 2021)

Those are amazing pictures. What a beautiful little boy.


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## FinnishLapphund (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She’s pretty protective of him so not letting anyone near. Hence rubbish photos. YO says leave them for the day and try to get in there tomorrow.

Haven’t contacted her breeder yet. On the fence as I was warned she could be weird.
		
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Fully understandable that you want to avoid potentially more unwanted trouble at the moment. Since they watched, and responded to a video you posted somewhere else about you working a little with Hermosa, as long as you don't post videos of the two of them on that same place, or post it with settings made so they can't see it, they won't find it out that way by accident.


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## MrsMozart (9 June 2021)

Oh happy days!

So very pleased for you all lass.

Right, must dash back into the meeting 😇😂


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## LeneHorse (9 June 2021)

Congratulations to all involved. Mum and baby are beautiful. What a rollercoaster week for you, CI!


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## splashgirl45 (9 June 2021)

a friend of mine bought a barren mare as a riding horse.  she had a foal and the previous owner said the foal was hers as she had paid for the covering fee.  friend said she was keeping foal as she had been done out of a riding horsein the latter stages pf pregnancy and till the foal is 6 months and weaned.  it got quite nasty and friend took legal advice and  kept the foal, she wished she hadnt contacted the breeder


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## Dave's Mam (9 June 2021)

Congratulations, he's gorgeous!


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## hobo (9 June 2021)

PapaverFollis said:



			I'm not sure having the breeding recorded fully would be worth the potential hassle if the breeder decided to be an asshat somehow.  Especially not as it has been such a roller coaster already.   It's been a tough old week for you, CI. I would advise against adding potential complications at this point and just enjoy your new arrival and give yourself time to process your loss.
		
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Spot on PF just enjoy what you have. I am guessing he will in due time be gelded so having his full breeding is not really of great need. You know the mum and the DOB that is good enough. He looks a cracker just enjoy.


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## Berpisc (9 June 2021)

Many congratulations, glad he is up and drinking, sounds like your yo knows their stuff too.


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## pistolpete (9 June 2021)

Awww. Gorgeous boy!Bonito!


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## Lipglosspukka (9 June 2021)

In answer to your initial question. 

No. No you should not hit Panic Button. Be nice to him.


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## BarneyTheChestnutOne (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!


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## Nasicus (9 June 2021)

pistolpete said:



			Awww. Gorgeous boy!Bonito!
		
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Bonito as in Beautiful, or as in the species of Fish? 

Gratz BTW, lovely little lad, glad the delivery went well!


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## Valadictory (9 June 2021)

Congratulations! What a handsome chap!


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

Breeder saw my wee video of me training Hermosa on Facebook. I have controlled my FB settings so she won't see any post I don't want her to. 

Just don't want faff. I know she has rather firm ideas on how to raise foals -- don't do a lot to them (like halter break!!), wean them at a year, don't geld (we know how that ends). Needless to say, I will not be doing it her way.


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## DabDab (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Breeder saw my wee video of me training Hermosa on Facebook. I have controlled my FB settings so she won't see any post I don't want her to.

Just don't want faff. I know she has rather firm ideas on how to raise foals -- don't do a lot to them (like halter break!!), wean them at a year, don't geld (we know how that ends). Needless to say, I will not be doing it her way.
		
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Yer, considering the state of your mare's feet and the fact she was accidentally pregnant when you got her, the breeder does seem a bit whack, and not in a good way.


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## Chuffy99 (9 June 2021)

Don’t see how you could call him Hermes, after all he’s arrived and they rarely do🤣🤣🤣


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## Jellymoon (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Breeder saw my wee video of me training Hermosa on Facebook. I have controlled my FB settings so she won't see any post I don't want her to.

Just don't want faff. I know she has rather firm ideas on how to raise foals -- don't do a lot to them (like halter break!!), wean them at a year, don't geld (we know how that ends). Needless to say, I will not be doing it her way.
		
Click to expand...

I also have a friend who bought a pregnant mare without realising, told the previous owner, who got very funny about and claimed the foal was hers. Tried to take them both back. It was fine, as she didn’t have any rights over it, but it was hassle you don’t need. I wonder if it’s different as in this case the owns the stallions too....

He‘s gorgeous, and I’m very jealous! So pleased everything went well. Hermes was the god of roads and doorways (opening doorways for you that you didn’t realise you wanted opening !!! And he was the protector of travellers - Gypsies!!!! Lots of connections! i like that name too. Xx


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## OldNag (9 June 2021)

Chuffy99 said:



			Don’t see how you could call him Hermes, after all he’s arrived and they rarely do🤣🤣🤣
		
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Yep but CI did get messed about a bit with delivery times ....


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## Dustygirl (9 June 2021)

Congratulations - what a special delivery he is 😊


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## Branna (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!! Lovely photos


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## EventingMum (9 June 2021)

Well done Hermosa! Worth all the hassle in the end.


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## j1ffy (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!! He's beautiful.

A variation of Regalo (gift), how about Regalito (little gift)?


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## ycbm (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She kept everyone on tenterhooks. Waited for us to call the vet at 9 am before having a wee colt at 9:05. Fired him out in less time than it took me to drive to the barn.

I’m giving them space so apologies for crap photos.
On his feet the first time at 10.
		
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Image of his mum?  Congratulations CI, I hope he helps heal your heart,  new life is always special. 
.


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## J&S (9 June 2021)

As she mum) is so young you may not be near her for a few days.  my foal  from a 3 yr old was the only one on the farm you couldn't cuddle from day 1 but about a week later all was well and scratches enjoyed.


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## Spirit2021 (9 June 2021)

Yeah I agree with others I wouldn’t contact the breeder You don’t need the stress. My friend bought a mare turned out the horse was pregnant . When the foal was born she told the breeder.  The breeder demented a massive amount of money.  My friend ended up in court because the breeder tried to sue her but didn’t succeed thankfully. The women sound crazy I personally wouldn’t say anything to her especially if she thinks it’s okay  for mares and stallions  to be in a field together.


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## SibeliusMB (9 June 2021)

Congratulations CI!!  A blessing in disguise.


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## DressageCob (9 June 2021)

He's beautiful. 

I vote for Gypsum's Guapito


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## Goldenstar (9 June 2021)

Those birth pictures are fantastic lovely straight forward perfect birth .
He is lovely just beautiful , to see a horse into the world is magic experience , I know it’s not what you wanted but enjoy it .


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## Abi90 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!!! Another daylight birth!! You can joint Foal Mondays now too 🤗

I like Regalo as a name, could be Reggie for short


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## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

Those pictures. Wow, just... wow.


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## brighteyes (9 June 2021)

Those pictures


Jellymoon said:



			Hermes was the god of roads and doorways (opening doorways for you that you didn’t realise you wanted opening !!! And he was the protector of travellers - Gypsies!!!! Lots of connections! i like that name too. Xx
		
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***shivers***


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## Floofball (9 June 2021)

Congratulations!!!!! So pleased for you that it’s all gone so smoothly/quickly 👍🏻 He’s gorgeous - cute as a Button 😉


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## indie1282 (9 June 2021)

I initially said Hermes as a joke but now I quite like it! 

Hermosa & Hermes..... it has a nice ring to it 🙂


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

I really can't get past Hermes as the packaging company.  A friend works for them, and they sound like horrible employers.

Trending towards Milagro de Yeso but not sure. I also like Inesperado but can't work out how to get Gypsum's name in there.

Trastada de Yeso.... Gypsum's practical joke.


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## DabDab (9 June 2021)

Milagro de Yeso is good.


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

Working on words. Regalo was a fat little Belgian-Morgan cross that I knew about fifteen or twenty years ago (who could be a b*gger to catch), and I can't get him out of my head when I think of that name.


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## PapaverFollis (9 June 2021)

Lol! That's a shame because Regalo is a nice name but you can't shake that kind of thing (this is why teachers have trouble naming their kids!).

I like Sorpresa for "surprise" but the 'a' ending is possibly a bit feminine for a colt.


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## PapaverFollis (9 June 2021)

Milagro is very nice.


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## Malibu_Stacy (9 June 2021)

Caso, from CaSO_4, the chemical formula for calcium sulphate aka gypsum?


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

Malibu_Stacy said:



			Caso, from CaSO_4, the chemical formula for calcium sulphate aka gypsum?
		
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That's really clever.  My OH will like that (he is a chemist).


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## PapaverFollis (9 June 2021)

Malibu_Stacy said:



			Caso, from CaSO_4, the chemical formula for calcium sulphate aka gypsum?
		
Click to expand...

Caso de sorpresa.

Case of surprise!


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

Perfect. The HHO naming committee has hit a winner.


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## indie1282 (9 June 2021)

Do you have a theme for a name?


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## indie1282 (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Perfect. The HHO naming committee has hit a winner.
		
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But Hermes as a stable name right 😉


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

He'll be Caso de Sorpresa, and his barn name will be Caso. Papaverfollis and Malibu_Stacy win a virtual bottle of wine.


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## PapaverFollis (9 June 2021)

Lovely 😍


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## Lipglosspukka (9 June 2021)

Caso (assuming it's pronounced Kay-so) is a lovely stable name


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

I think so too.


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## Roxylola (9 June 2021)

Lipglosspukka said:



			Caso (assuming it's pronounced Kay-so) is a lovely stable name
		
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I'd take a punt that it would be kah-so on the basis that casa is a soft a and Spanish tends not to change pronunciation rules the way English does.
Ultimately it doesn't really matter though you'll say it however you say it and it's a fabulous name


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## windand rain (9 June 2021)

He is very beautiful you lucky person I hope he wins your heart and spends his life with you. Love his name too


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## Tarragon (9 June 2021)

What a clever name! Love it. 
You can relax now


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## Apercrumbie (9 June 2021)

In Spanish it would be pronounced kah-so but obviously you can say it however you like! 

Caso pronounced kay-so would actually be queso, which means cheese. This makes me very happy.


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## Malibu_Stacy (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			He'll be Caso de Sorpresa, and his barn name will be Caso. Papaverfollis and Malibu_Stacy win a virtual bottle of wine.
		
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Happy to help, glad you liked it. (In my mind it’s pronounced Cah-so, as Kay would K for potassium, not Ca for calcium, but obviously it’s owners choice!).


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## Mrs. Jingle (9 June 2021)

Huge congratulations - he is a stunner and what an excellent young Mum she is! I do hope you feel a bit better about it all now and can relax a bit now he is safe on the ground.


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## Nicnac (9 June 2021)

Nothing like a H&H bog-off thread to raise the spirits.

Huge Congratulations CI - gorgeous foal, photos and name and the sun is shining.  What a beautiful day.  Thank you Hermosa!


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## DabDab (9 June 2021)

That is an excellent winning name 😁


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## criso (9 June 2021)

OldNag said:



			Yep but CI did get messed about a bit with delivery times .... 

Click to expand...

And he then turned up as soon as she left.  Luckily no sorry we missed you card.


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## criso (9 June 2021)

Roxylola said:



			I'd take a punt that it would be kah-so on the basis that casa is a soft a and Spanish tends not to change pronunciation rules the way English does.
Ultimately it doesn't really matter though you'll say it however you say it and it's a fabulous name
		
Click to expand...

It is a soft a like casa.


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## View (9 June 2021)

Stunning boy, and glad that both are doing well.

Hope you are able to sleep tonight!


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## Amymay (9 June 2021)

Dustygirl said:



			Congratulations - what a special delivery he is 😊
		
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Special Delivery - that could be a great name 😄


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## Trouper (9 June 2021)

Thank goodness she obliged today - don't think we could have taken much more.   Amazing pictures of the birth and he does look like his Mum.   
He also has a name , too - not bad for a day's work.
You'll have to get the zoom feature working on your phone if Mum won't let you near for a bit - we won't be able to go without daily pictures you do realise.


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

Little Caso and Hermosa are looking happy on my spy camera. That thing is ingenious.

The closest I've been to foalings was at my old barn in Colorado, and none were great.

Foal 1 would not stand and nurse, and this involved lots of vets, NG tubes, milking the mare, and faff. For like two days. She turned out alright in the end, but died at around age 8 or 9 due to laminitis-related complications. They couldn't seem to manage her weight. And these horses were dry-lotted (because Colorado), not on grass. Now I might suspect PSSM (does that exist in Arabs?), but no one knew much about that in the late-90s.

Foal 2 had an okay birth but from about a year old, he had recurring colic episodes that worsened as he got older. They treated him for ulcers, he went to the vet school, all sorts, but no cause was ever found. Eventually, he had to be put down, probably at age 6. They suspected he had some inherited defect in his GI tract.

Foal 3 (related to the other two) is still with us, but can't be ridden due to a locking stifle issue inherited from his father.

Foal 4 (unrelated...QH-warmbloodX) had issues with his legs not being straight and had to go into the vet school, maybe at a week old, and have casts put on his legs. He had on and off lameness issues for as long as I knew him.

The youngest of the four mares, however, was 17. That was the QH. The Arabs were in their early 20s. So that's a lousy sample.


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## wills_91 (9 June 2021)

I am not ashamed to say I asked our IT department to change my permissions and let me view this from work pc this afternoon 😂. Only just caught up. He's wonderful and a lovely fitting name.


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## Clodagh (9 June 2021)

The birth pics where she is looking at him. 😍.


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## BlackRider (9 June 2021)

Congratualations! Caso is stunning


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## PurBee (9 June 2021)

wills_91 said:



			I am not ashamed to say I asked our IT department to change my permissions and let me view this from work pc this afternoon 😂. Only just caught up. He's wonderful and a lovely fitting name.
		
Click to expand...

that's hilarious 😂

”gotta keep an eye on the bogof thread!”
”the what?!”
”nevermind, just drop the damn firewall!”


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## InklePickle (9 June 2021)

Ferdinand 💜


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## southerncomfort (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			One of the yard workers got some great photos of the birth.
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Wonderful photos...made me feel a bit teary.


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## Wishfilly (9 June 2021)

He's gorgeous! I'm glad it all went reasonably smoothly.

I hope things continue to go as well for all of you. I loved the birth photos! 

As a science teacher, I also love the inspiration for the name!


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## rabatsa (9 June 2021)

Dredging my memory there is well established case law that says the owner of the mare owns the foal.  I knew someone who had a Blackpool carriage horse for the winter, she put it in foal to her own stallion and she never told the mares owner.  She had the same mare back the following winter and the mare foaled with her.  She weaned the foal before the mare was due to be returned but the mares owner was suspicious as the mare still had an udder.  Long story short the person who had the foal did not have any title to it as she did not own the mare.


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## meggymoo (9 June 2021)

Clodagh said:



			The birth pics where she is looking at him. 😍.
		
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She's saying "What the hell........? How did you get in there?"


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

I was going to phone the BHS tomorrow to just get clarity. I'm still on the fence about contacting the breeder. I spoke to BAPSH today, and they said that we can ID baby daddy if breeder plays ball. Obviously that means collecting samples off the suspect randy colts (ANCCE already have Dad's DNA on file). If I do that, Caso can be registered in the main BAPSH studbook. If I don't, he can still be registered but in something called appendix B.


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## Tiddlypom (9 June 2021)

If Dad is also grandad, then as they have his DNA can't you register him without contacing the breeder?

That won't work if the half brothers are the dad, though, if they haven't had DNA taken yet?


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

I imagine the half-brothers' DNA will not be on file.

Going back through FB photos and cross-checking with the breeder's website, baby daddy could be her sire, or one of three colts -- a (now) 3-year old and two (now) 2-year olds. Everyone was obviously a year younger when the deed was done. It's like one of those bad teen holiday movies, where the kids are just having tons of sex. High school was not like this for me, but clearly was for my horse.


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## Emilieu (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I imagine the half-brothers' DNA will not be on file.

Going back through FB photos and cross-checking with the breeder's website, baby daddy could be her sire, or one of three colts -- a (now) 3-year old and two (now) 2-year olds. Everyone was obviously a year younger when the deed was done. It's like one of those bad teen holiday movies.
		
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Have you seen Mamma Mia? 😂😂😂😂


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## Peregrine Falcon (9 June 2021)

Beautiful birth pictures. Love her expression. Congratulations, now you can have some well earned sleep. She's a foal proud mum, they just need time to settle.


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## Red-1 (9 June 2021)

Fabulous name. I hope he brings you baskets full of happiness. X


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## wren123 (9 June 2021)

Congratulations and thank you for the wonderful birth photos.


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## Palindrome (9 June 2021)

So cute, glad it went well, are you considering keeping him?


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

My best friend (who is a wonderful horsewoman) is very keen on buying him once he's weaned, so that would be the ideal compromise between keeping him and not keeping him. Part of me wants to keep him, but given Hermosa is still an unbacked baby, I don't know if I can cope with raising _two _babies in the long term.


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## Ownedby4horses (9 June 2021)

I am so pleased that someone was able to get photos for you of the birth. Loving his new name. Sounds perfect if your best friend could buy him. 👍


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## meleeka (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			My best friend (who is a wonderful horsewoman) is very keen on buying him once he's weaned, so that would be the ideal compromise between keeping him and not keeping him. Part of me wants to keep him, but given Hermosa is still an unbacked baby, I don't know if I can cope with raising _two _babies in the long term.
		
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Either way, it’s not the disaster you were predicting at the beginning of this thread and you have a beautiful newborn foal to get to know, which many of us are envious of!


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## Clodagh (9 June 2021)

I would just say don’t commit to selling him, see how you feel in 6 months.


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## ycbm (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I imagine the half-brothers' DNA will not be on file.
		
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Whether the daddy of Hermosa is the sire or one of the half brothers is can be ascertained by the% match,  though,  can't it?
.


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## Midlifecrisis (9 June 2021)

Just caught up…congratulations all round..beautiful foal..great name and I can’t believe it’s all happened within a week.


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## Surbie (9 June 2021)

Just caught up - CONGRATULATIONS! He looks wonderful and I love the name. 

I don't have anything useful to say - hope you are having some well-earned rest though.


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## bouncing_ball (9 June 2021)

InklePickle said:



			Ferdinand 💜
		
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Why Ferdinand? ❤️


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## Mule (9 June 2021)

Congrats, what a whirlwind!


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## FlyingCircus (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I imagine the half-brothers' DNA will not be on file.

Going back through FB photos and cross-checking with the breeder's website, baby daddy could be her sire, or one of three colts -- a (now) 3-year old and two (now) 2-year olds. Everyone was obviously a year younger when the deed was done. It's like one of those bad teen holiday movies, where the kids are just having tons of sex. High school was not like this for me, but clearly was for my horse.
		
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I wonded how many other "oops" babies there have been from young mares!?


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## Caol Ila (9 June 2021)

Not many mares in the herd, luckily. It also sounds like she used to geld the colts if there was a filly in the youngstock herd, but clearly did not do this in 2020. Unfortunately, her younger sister is (probably) still there. I feel sorry for her and whoever buys her.


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## Kahlua (9 June 2021)

Just read through this thread and feel like I’m in a glass-case of emotions 😅 Congratulations on the foal, what an absolutely wild week!


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## Jules111 (9 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			My best friend (who is a wonderful horsewoman) is very keen on buying him once he's weaned, so that would be the ideal compromise between keeping him and not keeping him. Part of me wants to keep him, but given Hermosa is still an unbacked baby, I don't know if I can cope with raising _two _babies in the long term.
		
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Sounds like you have a plan B.  At the moment you must be feeling exhausted and more than a little bit overwhelmed by everything that's happened in the last couple of weeks. Thankfully your two babies will be together for 6 months which gives you plenty of time to work out what you want and figure out your next steps.  Congratulations, you're officially a (unintentional) successful breeder of a very beautiful boy.


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## SatansLittleHelper (9 June 2021)

Absolutely loving his name, just perfect 🥰
Can't wait to see more pics when you're able.
Hope you will get a better night sleep and so glad that Mum and baby are doing well 😁


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## InklePickle (9 June 2021)

bouncing_ball said:



			Why Ferdinand? ❤️
		
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Why not?


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## Lucky Snowball (9 June 2021)

Congratulations, beautiful photos, so pleased they are both doing well.


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## Carmen6 (10 June 2021)

Apercrumbie said:



			In Spanish it would be pronounced kah-so but obviously you can say it however you like!

Caso pronounced kay-so would actually be queso, which means cheese. This makes me very happy.
		
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I saw the name on p29 and thought "cheese?". Then remembered how it was spelled.

Depending on how this is pronounced in person, there's going to be a lifetime of "why did you call him cheese in Spanish?"  

Welcome to the world, Caso.  Thanks for not keeping us waiting.


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## PurBee (10 June 2021)

Carmen6 said:



			I saw the name on p29 and thought "cheese?". Then remembered how it was spelled.

Depending on how this is pronounced in person, there's going to be a lifetime of "why did you call him cheese in Spanish?"  

Welcome to the world, Caso.  Thanks for not keeping us waiting. 

Click to expand...

lol thats hilarious...im not familiar with spanish, but i really love cheese...i.d call my horse cheese, haloumi is a fab name 😂

The saying of Caso ‘kah-so’ is beautifully mediterranean.


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## criso (10 June 2021)

Actually Cheese is Spanish, Queso, is pronounced with a soft e,  so that is different.  Kay_so doesn't equate to any Spanish word so even if pronounced that way no danger of being cheesy.


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## Cinnamontoast (10 June 2021)

Love the name, I would have suggested Sol (sun) given the weather this week, but I think Caso is fabulous!


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## Emilieu (10 June 2021)

Cinnamontoast said:



			Love the name, I would have suggested Sol (sun) given the weather this week, but I think Caso is fabulous!
		
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CI is in my part of the world - cloud would be more appropriate 😂


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## Red-1 (10 June 2021)

I am another who would not commit to sell. Hermosa will be educated this year, even with a foal at foot, there is much for her to learn. Next year she will be backed and ridden away, exhausting in itself. 

When I saw the pregnancy result, my first thought was that this may turn out to be the best thing, in the end. At least you have been busy following the loss of Gypsum, the new horse has a nod to her in his name, you have your ridden horse... 

Timing wise, it is actually good! If your yard is experienced with youngsters and can support safe heard turnout, the baby will have a grand start. 

But, I would keep the option of selling open too, I would simply say that I haven't made my mind up yet.


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## ihatework (10 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			He'll be Caso de Sorpresa, and his barn name will be Caso. Papaverfollis and Malibu_Stacy win a virtual bottle of wine.
		
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Super name.
This little gift will be a blessing in disguise for you I think


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## Hannahgb (10 June 2021)

Congratulations, he's gorgeous!


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## atropa (10 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Unfortunately, her younger sister is (probably) still there. I feel sorry for her and whoever buys her.
		
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_*sneaks off to check the breeder's website*_


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## Roxylola (10 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I imagine the half-brothers' DNA will not be on file.

Going back through FB photos and cross-checking with the breeder's website, baby daddy could be her sire, or one of three colts -- a (now) 3-year old and two (now) 2-year olds. Everyone was obviously a year younger when the deed was done. It's like one of those bad teen holiday movies, where the kids are just having tons of sex. High school was not like this for me, but clearly was for my horse.
		
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Its pretty unlikely (but not totally impossible) that a yearling colt would have done the deed, they're still busy being babies at that age for the most part. I'd be inclined to think it would be the 3 year old or her sire as the most likely


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## Apercrumbie (10 June 2021)

PurBee said:



			lol thats hilarious...im not familiar with spanish, but i really love cheese...i.d call my horse cheese, haloumi is a fab name 😂

The saying of Caso ‘kah-so’ is beautifully mediterranean.
		
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Now I want a kitten so I can call it halloumi.


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## photo_jo (10 June 2021)

Roxylola said:



			Its pretty unlikely (but not totally impossible) that a yearling colt would have done the deed, they're still busy being babies at that age for the most part. I'd be inclined to think it would be the 3 year old or her sire as the most likely
		
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A few years ago now a yearling colt and two year old colt out in a field in the early part of the year succeeded-they were full brother and sister-the foal was called Incest!


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## AFB (10 June 2021)

Well I've just caught up with 30 pages after missing this thread, what a rollercoaster!

Gorgeous little boy - congratulations


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## Carmen6 (10 June 2021)

PurBee said:



			lol thats hilarious...im not familiar with spanish, but i really love cheese...i.d call my horse cheese, haloumi is a fab name 😂

The saying of Caso ‘kah-so’ is beautifully mediterranean.
		
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Aaaah, ok, I get it. I would still have been happy with Queso. 






All of my animals get named after food; it's the only way.  There's currently a "Pretzel" and a "Sausage", to name but a few.


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## Annagain (10 June 2021)

Carmen6 said:



			Aaaah, ok, I get it. I would still have been happy with Queso. 






All of my animals get named after food; it's the only way.  There's currently a "Pretzel" and a "Sausage", to name but a few.
		
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Maybe CI should consider Chorizo then .


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## ycbm (10 June 2021)

photo_jo said:



			a yearling colt and two year old colt out in a field in the early part of the year succeeded [in producing a foal between them]
		
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Now that really was a miracle 🤣


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## Frumpoon (10 June 2021)

Just a thought - the stud will be able to see this thread and quickly identify the situation/horse

There can't be that many PRE studs in Scotland....


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## chaps89 (10 June 2021)

Apercrumbie said:



			Now I want a kitten so I can call it halloumi.
		
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A friend of my OH called their kitten Gaucamole freckle!


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## EarsofaSnowman (10 June 2021)

Apercrumbie said:



			Now I want a kitten so I can call it halloumi.
		
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My cat is called Halloumi, as named by her rescuers. They called another one Feta😆. We've shortened it to Hallie


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## Tiddlypom (10 June 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			Just a thought - the stud will be able to see this thread and quickly identify the situation/horse

There can't be that many PRE studs in Scotland....
		
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As little as possible has been put on here for searches.

They are likely going to find out anyway somehow via the grapevine.

They have no claim on the foal.


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## Caol Ila (10 June 2021)

If they do, they do.

She's a very foal proud and anxious mum. The plan today was for the vet to do the IGG test, but she is being tricky to approach, much less catch, and as the foal seems fine, we decided it would do more harm than good to force the issue. If she got traumatized by being lassoed and then her baby manhandled, we would spend the rest of our lives chasing horses around a field. Thought it was more important to get her comfortable with us being around her and the foal. So that's what we did. After 30 minutes, she let me walk up to her and stroke her. She let me put the headcollar on after about 45 minutes. I spent another two hours hanging out with her, scratching her itchy spots, taking headcollar on and off. She wasn't keen on me touching Caso -- she would position herself between me and baby if he got too close.

Rinse and repeat tomorrow.

Any guesses on what colour he'll be?


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## Roasted Chestnuts (10 June 2021)

I would have said bay but the light muzzle is throwing me a bit. I’m sure there are some experts in colours on here, I know pangare can give them light points but is that’s a thing within her breed, very intriguing, he is lovely nine the less mum did good.


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## EarsofaSnowman (10 June 2021)

I love the colouring on his face😍. Will the tip stay that colour or darken?


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## Meowy Catkin (10 June 2021)

Your soft and slow approach sounds wise to me. 

I think probably bay as I can't see any signs that he will grey out... yet.


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## Sandstone1 (10 June 2021)

Well my guess was bay colt on weds so nearly right, just white face and socks missing.  He lovely whatever.


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## shortstuff99 (10 June 2021)

I would say bay, very similar to my youngster. Beautiful boy you've got there!

Here is her just born 



And at 3


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## Caol Ila (10 June 2021)

Your mare is a lot darker than mine.

One of the potential baby daddies has similar coloring to your mare's dam. He's much darker than Hermosa.


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## shortstuff99 (10 June 2021)

Hmmm maybe a tad darker.

In different light


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## Caol Ila (10 June 2021)

The foals looks very similar.

That is an amazing photo.


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## Frumpoon (10 June 2021)

Little feets


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## CanteringCarrot (10 June 2021)

I think you've got a fine plan. Just take it as slow as needed and relaxed. Those horse licks do come in handy. YO used one for a timid youngster.


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## Abi90 (10 June 2021)

I would say bay. I can’t see any primitive markings on him to suggest dun or buckskin. But I’m not expert!


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## shortstuff99 (10 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			The foals looks very similar.

That is an amazing photo.
		
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Thank you, I thought they looked quite similar! She is the easiest youngster I've ever had so fingers crossed yours is too 🤞


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## Caol Ila (10 June 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			Thank you, I thought they looked quite similar! She is the easiest youngster I've ever had so fingers crossed yours is too 🤞
		
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If mum will let me near him....


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## shortstuff99 (10 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			If mum will let me near him....
		
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She will once she realises you're not going to harm him. Mine is wary of strangers, but once she trusts you will do anything.


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## Emilieu (10 June 2021)

Bless her, wee anxious first time mummy. I think your approach sound absolutely perfect- and so the time wasting begins! They are both just beautiful


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## milliepops (10 June 2021)

Emilieu said:



			Bless her, wee anxious first time mummy. I think your approach sound absolutely perfect- and so the time wasting begins! They are both just beautiful
		
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haha! yes. prepare to give up your life now for the next few months. I spent hour after hour hanging out with mine  I was lucky my mare was very happy for us to handle foal from the moment she was born, hopefully Hermosa will come around before too long.


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## Jellymoon (10 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			That's really clever.  My OH will like that (he is a chemist).
		
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Oh wow, that is seriously clever, I like that.


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## Caol Ila (10 June 2021)

milliepops said:



			haha! yes. prepare to give up your life now for the next few months. I spent hour after hour hanging out with mine  I was lucky my mare was very happy for us to handle foal from the moment she was born, hopefully Hermosa will come around before too long.
		
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I hope so. It probably isn't helpful that she was only halter broken herself in late February/early March. Before all this, you wouldn't know that as she has been very good, but I guess motherhood has made her easily revert to being a bit feral.


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## Spotherisk (10 June 2021)

The foal proudness will decline in a few days, especially once he starts zooming around and crashing into her, then you’ll have the mare you know back.


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## photo_jo (10 June 2021)

photo_jo said:



			A few years ago now a yearling colt and two year old colt out in a field in the early part of the year succeeded-they were full brother and sister-the foal was called Incest!
		
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That needs editing! Yearling colt, 2yo filly - the rest is correct!


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## Apercrumbie (11 June 2021)

I'm sure she will relax in a few days/couple of weeks. It's completely understandable that she has reverted to a more feral state of mind at this point, but her hormones will be raging less soon and she'll remember that you're alright. Your approach sounds great, so if you can do that most days (more on the days you have time!) they'll both be right as rain in no time. Also, he will naturally become very inquisitive so at some point she won't be able to stop him approaching you.


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## J&S (11 June 2021)

I am going with grey.  My father once told me you could tell the true colour of a horse from the muzzle, probably another old wive's/husband's tale though as all you colour specialist will tell me.

I am also going to say again, I had the same experience with my very young mare when she foaled, we just left them to it, visited regularly and one day they just both came up to say hallo and we were there.  I remember insisting that my oh had to come that evening to photograph the change.


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## Sussexbythesea (11 June 2021)

J&S said:



			I am going with grey.  My father once told me you could tell the true colour of a horse from the muzzle, probably another old wive's/husband's tale though as all you colour specialist will tell me.

I am also going to say again, I had the same experience with my very young mare when she foaled, we just left them to it, visited regularly and one day they just both came up to say hallo and we were there.  I remember insisting that my oh had to come that evening to photograph the 

misread
		
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## criso (11 June 2021)

I wouldn't say grey.  Grey horses tend to be overpigmented at birth more like an adult horse so a bay going grey would have darker legs. This foal has lighter legs which will go black in time.


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## Errin Paddywack (11 June 2021)

I would say definitely not grey, some shade of bay for sure.


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## meleeka (11 June 2021)

he looks like mums colouring to me.


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## I'm Dun (11 June 2021)

The foal is bay, no signs of dun or ND1. I'm another who doesnt think he will grey out either.


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## JJS (11 June 2021)

Hermosa is bay with ND1, hence the dorsal. Caso is ordinary bay. The foal camo suggests he won’t grey.

Flower was a very similar colour when she was born, although it’s impossible to say what shade he’ll be this early on 🙂


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## PurBee (11 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			If they do, they do.

She's a very foal proud and anxious mum. The plan today was for the vet to do the IGG test, but she is being tricky to approach, much less catch, and as the foal seems fine, we decided it would do more harm than good to force the issue. If she got traumatized by being lassoed and then her baby manhandled, we would spend the rest of our lives chasing horses around a field. Thought it was more important to get her comfortable with us being around her and the foal. So that's what we did. After 30 minutes, she let me walk up to her and stroke her. She let me put the headcollar on after about 45 minutes. I spent another two hours hanging out with her, scratching her itchy spots, taking headcollar on and off. She wasn't keen on me touching Caso -- she would position herself between me and baby if he got too close.

Rinse and repeat tomorrow.

Any guesses on what colour he'll be?

View attachment 73404
View attachment 73405
View attachment 73406
View attachment 73407
View attachment 73409

Click to expand...

sooo gorgeous...she’ll gain confidence with people around him soon enough...

Where did you get Hermosa’s headcollar from CI?
Looks idea for a fast slip-on ...faffing with buckles/rope ties does my head-in in certain situations.


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## Caol Ila (11 June 2021)

Better today. She let me approach (Lickit at the ready) without the half hour of chasing her around, and I got the headcollar on straightaway. Baby still quite wary, but I managed to stroke his hindquarters. He was thinking about coming up for a sniff.

Led her around a little. Didn't push that. She seemed to find it difficult to get her head around the idea that she can be led by a human and keep track of her baby.




Oh, well. At least she can move. So she has that going for her.


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## Goldenstar (11 June 2021)

Ah lovely photos ,a bit of perseverance and tasty food and time is all it needs .


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## Regandal (11 June 2021)

Those legs!!


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## Ambers Echo (11 June 2021)

Beautiful photos x


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## shortstuff99 (11 June 2021)

He is so beautiful! Your OH looks a bit smitten with him too


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## Laurac13 (11 June 2021)

He looks gorgeous 🥰 great progress with Hermosa and baby caso 😀


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## brighteyes (11 June 2021)

It just gets better and better!


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## SibeliusMB (11 June 2021)

I love himmmmm! ❤❤❤


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## Red-1 (11 June 2021)

What a gift!


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## ycbm (11 June 2021)

Got a cracking set of legs on him,  hasn't he!?

Looking good CI, I hope you're feeling a bit happier now everything is settled.


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## Jules111 (11 June 2021)

If you are really think of selling him I suspect you'll have quite a few people here interested. He's stunning. I suspect he'll be with you for a long time but please consider all of your options. He's not something you'll have any difficulty in re-homing. I suspect his value won't change significantly between 6mths and 2 yrs so please take all the time you need to decide what works for you.


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## SatansLittleHelper (12 June 2021)

He's absolutely gorgeous 😍
I'm hoping you are viewing him more as a happy accident now..?? Everything else aside, he's going to be a cracker by the look of him 😁❤


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## Griffin (12 June 2021)

So sweet! I think you are doing so well with them.


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## Trouper (12 June 2021)

My day is not complete without a photo of Hermosa and Caso - thank you!!


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## Caol Ila (12 June 2021)

YO said that she _may _not be able to accommodate the horses when the yard switches to winter turn-out arrangements in October/November. I said we had nowhere to go, which we don't, unless they go somewhere over an hour away. She agreed that wasn't ideal and she would think about options. Hopefully she'll come up with something. I get it. Livery yards are not really designed to accommodate mares with foals at foot.

I'm so tired of fighting. Seriously tempted to sell Hermosa, with foal at foot. Start again. There are other nice horses out there.

Here's a couple photo
	
 from today.


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## Abi90 (12 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			YO said that she _may _not be able to accommodate the horses when the yard switches to winter turn-out arrangements in October/November. I said we had nowhere to go, which we don't, unless they go somewhere over an hour away. She agreed that wasn't ideal and she would think about options. Hopefully she'll come up with something. I get it. Livery yards are not really designed to accommodate mares with foals at foot.

I'm so tired of fighting. Seriously tempted to sell Hermosa, with foal at foot. Start again. There are other nice horses out there.

Here's a couple photo
	View attachment 73568
 from today.
		
Click to expand...

Do you have any studs near you? Some will take mares and foals on livery with their own herds


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## Lindylouanne (12 June 2021)

Things will work out CI. You have had a hell of a few weeks and I’m not surprised you are feeling a bit fragile. By the time you go to winter turnout Caso will be at the weaning stage and should you want to keep him I’m sure you will be able to find some where he can run with a herd of youngsters. It might not be right on your doorstep but the power of HHO should be able to find you somewhere safe and secure for him. You can then crack on with Hermosa as planned. You bought her for a reason and it would be sad if you didn’t carry through with your plans.


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## Zuzan (12 June 2021)

Really feel for you .. I can imagine feeling like that having felt similar when I just couldn't find a solution .. but a solution did come along ... I have everything crossed that you too will find a solution as Hermosa is lovely and think Caso will be splendid too.. whether you keep him or not .. bare in mind in 6 months you could think about weaning Caso and if as you say your friend is quite keen on him this would mean Caso could be in a new home around Christmas time.. so not there the entire winter..     If you do decide to sell wont you still be in search of a feasible yard.. ?


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## Shilasdair (12 June 2021)

I forgot about this thread - congratulations - guess he was quite 'imminent' .

You'll find somewhere to take him, I'm sure.


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## Amymay (12 June 2021)

What is it exactly that she can’t accommodate?


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## Emilieu (12 June 2021)

There are definitely yards in my area that accommodate foals CI. Don’t panic.


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## Caol Ila (12 June 2021)

Amymay said:



			What is it exactly that she can’t accommodate?
		
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Turn-out. They go into larger groups in the fields, and when they're not in fields, they're in shared pens. This happens in October or November (depending on weather) and foal would be weaned circa December.


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## Amymay (12 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Turn-out. They go into larger groups in the fields, and when they're not in fields, they're in shared pens. This happens in October or November (depending on weather) and foal would be weaned circa December.
		
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Ah ok, yes that makes sense.


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## Caol Ila (12 June 2021)

I should add that it was a _nightmare  _to find a place that would take a bloody two-year old, when Gypsum's yard summarily ejected her back in March. How the f**ck am I going to find a place who will take a three-year old with a foal at foot?

Local studs? LOL. All the ones I phoned were as helpful as a chocolate teapot. Don't take liveries, sorry.


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## OrangeAndLemon (12 June 2021)

At least she's told you now not in September or October when you'd only have weeks to figure it out. 

Don't worry about it right now, you've had a hell of a fortnight. Give yourself time, you don't need to do anything now. 

Options will appear and you can think about it all when you've had time to adjust and got to know the foal a bit better.


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## Abi90 (12 June 2021)

You could stick a post on your local Facebook. I know several people with foals who don’t have a friend for foal but do have land a space for another mare and foal. I’ve seen several people advertise from both sides with success


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## Amymay (12 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I should add that it was a _nightmare  _to find a place that would take a bloody two-year old, when Gypsum's yard summarily ejected her back in March. How the f**ck am I going to find a place who will take a three-year old with a foal at foot?

Local studs? LOL. All the ones I phoned were as helpful as a chocolate teapot. Don't take liveries, sorry.
		
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Well, let’s start with, where are you?

Someone here might be able to help/recommend..


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## Caol Ila (12 June 2021)

Northwest Glasgow.


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## Cortez (12 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Northwest Glasgow.
		
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Start calling around some studs with broodmare herds.


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## Caol Ila (12 June 2021)

If anyone knows of or can find studs (_not _the one she came from), let me know. I have done lots of Googling and have already been in touch with the handful I identified on my searches, and they told me no way in hell would they ever take a livery.


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## Sandstone1 (12 June 2021)

Look on the bright side.  you have a beautiful healthy mare and foal, its summer and you have time to sort something out.  I know you have had a very tough couple of weeks but a new life is something to be happy about.


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## Emilieu (12 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			If anyone knows of or can find studs (_not _the one she came from), let me know. I have done lots of Googling and have already been in touch with the handful I identified on my searches, and they told me no way in hell would they ever take a livery.
		
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Is my area too far?


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## Caol Ila (12 June 2021)

It's a ballache to get to, but I could deal with it as a short term solution.


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## Emilieu (12 June 2021)

Look up Clarbidhe Stud on Facebook. There’s also a space at my yard. You could message and ask if they could accommodate you. They are very helpful.


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## Emilieu (12 June 2021)

If you do a wanted ad I will share. I know two people who have had foals at livery yards in my area, and another who has just had a foal (not livery, but she must have a future plan)


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## Caol Ila (12 June 2021)

I guess I should see if the YO is actually going to ask me to move her. She did say she would think about possible solutions. I guess I should give her some time.

I'm so tired of yard hopping due to things I have zero control over. My horse hates loading, because I've never had the chance to teach her in a nice, friendly and fun way. It has always involved upending her life. I wouldn't get on a lorry, either, if that was my only experience of it. Maybe if someone with their own horse property bought her, they could give her a better life than I can.


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## Brownmare (12 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I should add that it was a _nightmare  _to find a place that would take a bloody two-year old, when Gypsum's yard summarily ejected her back in March. How the f**ck am I going to find a place who will take a three-year old with a foal at foot?

Local studs? LOL. All the ones I phoned were as helpful as a chocolate teapot. Don't take liveries, sorry.
		
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If you sell the foal before weaning you may find a buyer who would like to take them as a pair in October so the foal settles into his new home easier and then returns Hermosa to you when the foal is old enough to be weaned. Obviously only an option if you do decide to sell and you would need a fairly comprehensive loan agreement for the mare but still worth thinking about.


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## CanteringCarrot (12 June 2021)

I would give it a bit of time and talk with the YO. It sounds like she might be accommodating. 

You can discuss your concerns and previous struggles with finding a livery yard and tell her you are just trying to plan since it's a bit scarce out there and if she could let you know sooner rather than later, that would be greatly appreciated. 

It might just workout. 

I can totally understand why this is stressful though. A wanted ad might draw some places out of the woodwork too.


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## brighteyes (12 June 2021)

I'm genuinely sad you aren't able to enjoy having the new little life even for just a week. You really need a break and I'd be amazed if one of us can't come up with a solution of some sort. From what you are saying, you have until October at least, so just try and take a few deep breaths and not make any decisions just yet xxx


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## Zuzan (12 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I guess I should see if the YO is actually going to ask me to move her. She did say she would think about possible solutions. I guess I should give her some time.

I'm so tired of yard hopping due to things I have zero control over. My horse hates loading, because I've never had the chance to teach her in a nice, friendly and fun way. It has always involved upending her life. I wouldn't get on a lorry, either, if that was my only experience of it. Maybe if someone with their own horse property bought her, they could give her a better life than I can.
		
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You are very tired and stressed and finding it very difficult to see positives and possibilites .. It's a difficult place to be ..  be kind to yourself and try and dial back on what sounds like the little voices saying you aren't good enough for Hermosa.    I know exactly how you feel as have had the same feelings and similar difficulties when my horse was a youngster.   looking back now it seems trivial and I found a way through and am infinitely glad I stuck with it and didn't give up.. I literally have the horse of my life .. so just from someone who can absolutely identify with where you are try and keep your mind open to possibilities.   I do hope you manage to get some good sleep.  All the very very best.


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## fiestiemaestie (12 June 2021)

Why do you need to see them frequently? Let them go to stud and live with other horses and young stock in a herd. Wean at the end of the year and have her back next year to bring on.


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## Caol Ila (12 June 2021)

I think that's hard for me to face because my horse did not get basic handling skills at her breeder's, so I've had to work on accepting a headcollar, catching, leading, yielding to pressure, the works, like a bloody Mustang. However, she was doing great at it.  I was really happy with her progress. But her feet are still a massive clusterf*ck and it takes f*ck tons of Domesedan in order to get a basic trim done. I was working on it and sort of making progress. I hope you guys understand why I don't want this horse to basically go feral again for half a year. Or for Caso to end up equally as feral.

In fairness to my YO, she has acknowledged this as a significant issue and it might be the one reason she tries harder to figure something out, maybe more so than she would do for a well handled BOGOF mare.


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## Palindrome (12 June 2021)

Some breeders wean at 4 months. I don't think it's ideal but if you don't have the choice, you could wean a bit earlier. Or perhaps your friend who intends to buy the foal could take mare and foal for a month or 2 and do the weaning at her place/livery?


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## pistolpete (12 June 2021)

Noooo don’t wean early unless you want a horse who suffers separation anxiety his whole life. Good research to confirm this. Not kind to do it. Feel for you CI it’s been a rocky road but everything crossed things will turn out ok. He is stunning. As is she!


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## Caol Ila (13 June 2021)

Yeah, that's what she has going for her. The knowledge that finding a horse of the same age or older of comparable quality for not gazillions of pounds would be challenging.


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## brighteyes (13 June 2021)

Can you not work on them together? Foals need handling too - or do you think she will make him more upset than a handled mare?


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## Xtra (13 June 2021)

I should know in a month or two if things have worked out for me.  If they have then I can offer grazing for both in your area.  No facilities though.


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## Trouper (13 June 2021)

Goodness - foalwise, we are only a week in and you have been through hell and back mentally in the last few weeks.  Just give yourself - and your brain! - a rest for a bit.
You have plenty of time to go back to working with Hermosa and, as others have said, she will soon start getting bored with his antics and let you get nearer to both of them to do some basic handling.  Please just concentrate on this for the next few weeks.  It will give you all some much needed breathing space and set up both of them for whatever decisions you need to take in the autumn.

Longer-term - to me there seem to be a number of questions only you can answer:

Do you want to keep Hermosa?
Do you want to keep the foal?
Do you want to keep both of them?
When you have got the answers to these questions that you feel happy with then you will know how to plan.    But I think answering these questions based on what sort of accommodation you can find for them would be the wrong way round to approach this - definitely a "cart before the horse" approach!!!


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## Palindrome (13 June 2021)

pistolpete said:



			Noooo don’t wean early unless you want a horse who suffers separation anxiety his whole life. Good research to confirm this. Not kind to do it. Feel for you CI it’s been a rocky road but everything crossed things will turn out ok. He is stunning. As is she!
		
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Interesting, do you have a link to the research? Do you mean research as in a scientific study?


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## Spirit2021 (13 June 2021)

don’t sell  because it doesn’t end wall for the mare and foal . Most inexperienced people buy these horses and keep them not the right conditions. You could wean early if you were stuck 4 to 5 months.

I can completely get a why you’re feeling like this you probably miss riding .


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## Mrs. Jingle (13 June 2021)

Spirit2021 said:



			don’t sell  because it doesn’t end wall for the mare and foal . Most inexperienced people buy these horses and keep them not the right conditions. You could wean early if you were stuck 4 to 5 months.

I can completely get a why you’re feeling like this you probably miss riding .
		
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Rather sweeping and extremely negative statements there, perhaps 'sometimes' it doesn't end well, perhaps 'sometimes' inexperienced people buy these horses etc.....

OP I know you have had a terrible few weeks with one thing and another but the wisest thing I think will be as you suggested yourself, to try to pin your YO down to a decision perhaps in a month or so when she has had time to mull things over (don't make her feel pressured!)  and then have a re think about it all.

And try and give yourself a break, physically and mentally, even perhaps a day out away from it all with your OH, while the weather is good, or just a couple of hours doing something else each day, anything that you enjoy away from the situation.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (13 June 2021)

pistolpete said:



			Noooo don’t wean early unless you want a horse who suffers separation anxiety his whole life. Good research to confirm this. Not kind to do it. Feel for you CI it’s been a rocky road but everything crossed things will turn out ok. He is stunning. As is she!
		
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Really? You can prove this?
My current mount was weaned at 3 months as her mother couldn't feed her and was v v ill. No harm done and she's absolutely not got and never had any anxiety issues.
I've had some myself that were weaned early for various reasons, not always wanted to but was required and again,  never experienced issues.
I have never ever had anxiety issues from early weaning and not come across it before.

CI, maybe your YO will help you work things out for later on x


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## Asha (13 June 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Really? You can prove this?
My current mount was weaned at 3 months as her mother couldn't feed her and was v v ill. No harm done and she's absolutely not got and never had any anxiety issues.
I've had some myself that were weaned early for various reasons, not always wanted to but was required and again,  never experienced issues.
I have never ever had anxiety issues from early weaning and not come across it before.

CI, maybe your YO will help you work things out for later on x
		
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Agree with you FF . I had to wean one of mine at 41/2 months on vets advice . Never had any issues at all . Ideal no , but did impact him in any negative way .. no.


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## eggs (13 June 2021)

I had to wean one of my foals at 4.5 months due to his mother getting mastitis and another at 5 months - both under vet advice.  I still have both of them and really can’t say that it has caused them separation anxiety.


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## Caol Ila (13 June 2021)

@Xtra, yeah, if the YO can't fit them into her set-up when they go onto their winter routine, then I might take you up on that.

I don't know what I want anymore, or the right choice. It just feels like I've had had unending drama with this filly, and I'm exhausted. Between jumping out of a field at our first yard, a desperate (and at times), hopeless search for youngster-friendly livery that wasn't a million miles away, and now this, I got nothing left. None of it is really her fault. Some of it might have been easier if she'd had more handling as a baby, but for most of this drama, it would not have made a blind bit of difference.

On the positive side, she has a great, trainable temperament, she's well put together, and she's a lovely mover.  If I sold her and tried to find a Spanish horse of similar quality from a stud that had its sh1t together a bit more, would I be spending £££££££££?


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## shortstuff99 (13 June 2021)

Yes, really good quality youngsters/ yearlings are normally 6k plus UK. Some of the top Spanish studs can be 25k plus for a foal.


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## Britestar (13 June 2021)

You're living too much in the future. 
Whilst it's important to know where they'll be in 6 months time,  take a step back now and just enjoy having a baby running around.
All the stress you bring will affect the mare,  and make her harder to do things with. 
Disengage for a while,  go up,  lol at them and leave.  Give yourself a break.


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## CanteringCarrot (13 June 2021)

I'd just stick with what you've got. The devil that you know, and all that. 

You've had a lot thrown at you, but now that the foal is here, I think you can breathe a bit. 

After a bit of time you may be able to do more with Hermosa with her foal at her side/nearby. 

Then once he's weaned, you can kick things up a notch. She's just turned 3 (right?) so there is really no rush. Yes, I would be trying to work out the whole hoof thing as soon as I could, but don't burn yourself out over it.

I think you've got some of the most difficult events behind you now (Gypsum pts, finding pregnancy, the actual foaling), so if you've made it through all of that, you can handle the rest. 

I know you said Gympsum wasn't handled so much when she was young, but there are some that run nearly feral until backing and do turnout just fine.

Sit back and enjoy the cute foal antics. Not the experience you had in mind, but it's truly a unique experience to have a foal.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (13 June 2021)

Keep her. Sell the foal. If someone is willing to buy it at weaning then problem solved, you get your mare back and can crack on and get her ready for backing next spring.

I think you are getting too much up in your own head and need to take a break. Go away for a weekend they will still be there when you come back. It seems to me like you are trying to force things because you feel you have to. She will come round you have until November to tame the foal he doesn’t have to leading in his first few weeks of life. You have months to work with them. Take a step back and breathe and take a break.


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## maya2008 (13 June 2021)

I would ask around - on here, Facebook, friends. I am nowhere near you (south of England!) but I have a spare field with horses on either side that isn’t being used. Equally, will have to pick up a foal at the sales in the autumn or something to keep our bogof foal company once weaned (still waiting for it to turn up!), so someone like you would solve all my problems at once! I am pretty sure there will be other people like me around the country - get the word out and see what turns up! 

What about the friend who wanted to buy the foal? Where would she put it? Can they go there for a couple of months, then Hermosa come back to the current yard?


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## milliepops (13 June 2021)

yeah if my nursery field had been bigger I'd have offered space to a mare and foal in order to have a pair to wean together.


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## EventingMum (13 June 2021)

Neither are on your doorstep but have you spoken with Lambridden Stud at Dalry or Lomondside Stud at Drymen?


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## Spotherisk (13 June 2021)

I’d also post in the Breeding section of the forum.


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## Cloball (13 June 2021)

EventingMum said:



			Neither are on your doorstep but have you spoken with Lambridden Stud at Dalry or Lomondside Stud at Drymen?
		
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I'm not sure lomondside are breeding anymore so might not behave any youngsters but still worth a shout as lovely people.


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## wills_91 (13 June 2021)

Emilieu said:



			Look up Clarbidhe Stud on Facebook. There’s also a space at my yard. You could message and ask if they could accommodate you. They are very helpful.
		
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My friend liveries at Clarbidhe stud, she's been there for years with no problem.


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## Caol Ila (13 June 2021)

I guess there are options if it comes to it.

Today, I realised that the one person who I’ve missed the most is my vet. Hermosa had yellowish discharge coming out of her vulva. I asked Dr. Google, who said discharge is normal after foaling but yellow stuff could be bad. Very bad. I put in an emergency call out and vet sedated her, had a grope, lavaged her uterus. She didn’t seem overly concerned but said there was some bruising and put the horse on antibiotics. Took a culture as well.

So that was my Sunday evening. Don’t know if I was overly punchy about calling the vet but the risks of not doing it seemed too deathy.


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## little_critter (13 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I guess there are options if it comes to it.

Today, I realised that the one person who I’ve missed the most is my vet. Hermosa had yellowish discharge coming out of her vulva. I asked Dr. Google, who said discharge is normal after foaling but yellow stuff could be bad. Very bad. I put in an emergency call out and vet sedated her, had a grope, lavaged her uterus. She didn’t seem overly concerned but said there was some bruising and put the horse on antibiotics. Took a culture as well.

So that was my Sunday evening. Don’t know if I was overly punchy about calling the vet but the risks of not doing it seemed too deathy.
		
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I’m another who sometimes wonders if I’m too quick to call the vet. But my reasoning is I’d rather pay for a call out and exam to be told there’s nothing wrong, than wait and risk missing something that could have been easily treated if only I’d called yesterday / last week.


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## Amymay (13 June 2021)

little_critter said:



			I’m another who sometimes wonders if I’m too quick to call the vet. But my reasoning is I’d rather pay for a call out and exam to be told there’s nothing wrong, than wait and risk missing something that could have been easily treated if only I’d called yesterday / last week.
		
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Better to waste £100 on nothing, than £100’sssss on ‘should have got the vet’.


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## milliepops (13 June 2021)

Amymay said:



			Better to waste £100 on nothing, than £100’sssss on ‘should have got the vet’.
		
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This especially as (I don't think) she was checked post foaling? Might have missed if she was. I had an emergency call out for a niggly colic after foaling, I think the mares can be a bit vulnerable to going off colour. Sounds like the right call to me.


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## Apercrumbie (13 June 2021)

Regardless of the result that was completely the right call to make. They can go downhill so quickly at this stage so far better safe than sorry.


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## Emilieu (13 June 2021)

Another who would rather regret the bill than regret not calling. Hope this week is less eventful 😬


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## ycbm (13 June 2021)

Good call,  I've seen a horse nearly lost to post foaling laminitis caused by a retained piece of placenta.  And it cost a fortune and the horse and foal had to be sold to pay the vet bill.  

Fingers crossed she's fine now, CI. You really are going through the mill 
.


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## Caol Ila (13 June 2021)

milliepops said:



			This especially as (I don't think) she was checked post foaling? Might have missed if she was. I had an emergency call out for a niggly colic after foaling, I think the mares can be a bit vulnerable to going off colour. Sounds like the right call to me.
		
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Yeah, she wasn't checked as no one could catch her the day after she foaled, and I thought going to levels like pinning her in a corner when there wasn't an actual problem anyone could see would cause a lot more problems . She's still a bit wary, but at least she now lets me and OH catch her and lead her around the field. 

When she was sedated, I managed to cuddle Caso. He's slowly working out that we aren't scary.


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## milliepops (13 June 2021)

yeah it wasn't a criticism as i remembered you saying she wouldn't let you near.

expect Caso will be curious about you soon and then she'll prob chill out.


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## Jules111 (13 June 2021)

I'm a born worrier and some of the best advice I've had is to stop worrying so much about the future, it will find you anyway. I have to admit the things I worry about often sort themselves out or an obvious solution appears.


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## Abi90 (13 June 2021)

Jules111 said:



			I'm a born worrier and some of the best advice I've had is to stop worrying so much about the future, it will find you anyway. I have to admit the things I worry about often sort themselves out or an obvious solution appears.
		
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I’m a born worrier and have had generalised anxiety at times and I find it nearly impossible just to stop worrying about the future. What I find helps is having a clear plan in place (even if it doesn’t work out) which is why I think CI is stressing.

I agree that things normally sort themselves out but I hate not having a plan, that’s what makes me worry


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## Ellietotz (13 June 2021)

Abi90 said:



			I’m a born worrier and have had generalised anxiety at times and I find it nearly impossible just to stop worrying about the future. What I find helps is having a clear plan in place (even if it doesn’t work out) which is why I think CI is stressing.

I agree that things normally sort themselves out but I hate not having a plan, that’s what makes me worry
		
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Another born worrier here. 
I find it helps to have a plan too but with an "if it doesn't work out" plan. Have to think of all possible issues that might arise to come to the plan but once I have it, everything seems okay. 

Irrespective, things will work out for you CI. Try and enjoy these moments while there is no rush to change things.


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## View (13 June 2021)

And another born worrier.  But sometimes we have to give ourselves a break.

Can you plan in a two week break now, where just enjoy your gorgeous horses in the here and now?

Hermosa and Caso are both lovely, and your gymslip mum is doing a fine job.


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## meleeka (13 June 2021)

I always think it’s worth the callout fee so I can sleep at night.  I’d have done the same.


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## Caol Ila (14 June 2021)

ycbm said:



			Good call,  I've seen a horse nearly lost to post foaling laminitis caused by a retained piece of placenta.  And it cost a fortune and the horse and foal had to be sold to pay the vet bill.

Fingers crossed she's fine now, CI. You really are going through the mill 
.
		
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That was the scary sh1t I found online. I'm pretty good at Googling, and when I Google medical stuff, I cross reference and fact check across a range of websites. Nothing was that reassuring. If it was nothing, normal, then whatever, but if I'd done nothing and the mare came down with a fever and laminitis, I would feel pretty stupid. For the last 25 or so years of horse ownership, my MO has been to just call the damn vet if I'm dithering over calling the vet. It got Gypsum to 28. But with this foal thing, I'm flying in a whiteout because I know nothing.


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## palo1 (14 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			That was the scary sh1t I found online. I'm pretty good at Googling, and when I Google medical stuff, I cross reference and fact check across a range of websites. Nothing was that reassuring. If it was nothing, normal, then whatever, but if I'd done nothing and the mare came down with a fever and laminitis, I would feel pretty stupid. For the last 25 or so years of horse ownership, my MO has been to just call the damn vet if I'm dithering over calling the vet. It got Gypsum to 28. But with this foal thing, I'm flying in a whiteout because I know nothing.
		
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But you don't know nothing @Caol Ila !!  You have loads of experience which informs your gut instinct and your knowledge.  There are specific foaling related issues but it won't be long before you are through that bit and can view Hermosa as usual and gorgeous Caso as fairly simple to deal with too.  You have had a nightmare few weeks and you should take support from wherever you can - a vet is as good a person as any if you are feeling wobbly or uncertain but you can look after your two horses beautifully.  Hermosa and Caso are incredibly lucky to have you on their side.


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## Quadro (14 June 2021)

CI, I have plenty of grazing for a mare with a foal at foot, and I have a mare that is due in July for them to go out with


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## Mrs. Jingle (14 June 2021)

Quadro said:



			CI, I have plenty of grazing for a mare with a foal at foot, and I have a mare that is due in July for them to go out with
		
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What an incredible and generous offer. Lets hope CI takes you up on that sounds just perfect.


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## Annagain (14 June 2021)

CI  - Just STOP for a minute. Even IF your YO can't accommodate them, that won't be an issue for months. You've already had some lovely offers on here and several leads to follow but you don't need to do anything for at least a month, probably two. Just enjoy them for now. 

You've had a terrible few months but so has she. She was ripped away from the only thing she's ever known, attacked when she got somewhere new, moved again, stuck in a stable, moved somewhere where she was happy and settled, then that world was turned upside down again by a foal. None of that is a criticism of anything you've done, I'm just pointing out that she's had a lot of upheaval too and 
a. can't understand it like you can. 
b. needs a bit of security and consistency in her life at the moment. 

Take a breath, stop worrying about things that don't need worrying about yet, focus on the now and help Hermosa to feel settled and secure - which will in turn help you deal with things like her feet. She'll soon come round and once Caso works out you're providing cuddles and scratches he will too. IF you need to move her in the Autumn, worry about it then. I understand the need for a plan if you're a worrier, but isn't "do nothing for 6 weeks then look at it afresh" also a plan?


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## milliepops (14 June 2021)

^^ completely agree AA. And with Quadro's kind offer in the back pocket, there is a ready made safety net.


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## Quadro (14 June 2021)

I think I am about 40 miles from CI but I have a 225 acre farm so space and grazing isn't really an issue for us. Also have large sheep pens that can double as mare and foal pens


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## holeymoley (14 June 2021)

I think your worry probably stems from living in a pretty guff area in the country for yards. You’re not a million miles from me but the standards on yards or maybe more so what is advertised and promised in comparison to what you actually get leaves much to be desired. 

I’ve got no suggestions but I’m sure everyone on here can club together and come up with a plan!


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## Caol Ila (14 June 2021)

Quadro said:



			I think I am about 40 miles from CI but I have a 225 acre farm so space and grazing isn't really an issue for us. Also have large sheep pens that can double as mare and foal pens
		
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holeymoley said:



			I think your worry probably stems from living in a pretty guff area in the country for yards. You’re not a million miles from me but the standards on yards or maybe more so what is advertised and promised in comparison to what you actually get leaves much to be desired.

I’ve got no suggestions but I’m sure everyone on here can club together and come up with a plan!
		
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It _is _a guff area for yards. It sucks. You'd think a city of this size would have more decent yards.

Before the vet told me she was too far along in her pregnancy to move, I thought sending her to Quadro's yard might be an option. If my YO really can't deal, it sounds like it still is. It sounds amazing. Wish it were closer! My ex lived nearby, so I know the drive well. But I guess for all the reasons Annagain outlined, I don't _want _to move the horse again, only to have to move her a few months or whatever after that, as it's not sustainable in the long term to have her 40 miles away. It's no wonder that she's a terrible loader, which adds to the stress of moving.


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## Coblover63 (14 June 2021)

You're doing brilliantly in alien territory.  I hope Hermosa is OK today.  Regarding foalie.... scritches rather than strokes.  Scritch his withers or his hindquarters and he'll love it.  They are all born with a fluffy protective coat (which he will shed fairly quickly) so he'll have the real itchies in this hot weather.  If you scritch him, he'll soon be your best friend.


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## sky1000 (14 June 2021)

I think you need to take some time out to grieve for Gypsum.  You couldn't because you had to handle the immediate crisis.  Could you now?


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## Caol Ila (15 June 2021)

In other news, I still have no idea what I’m doing.

I’ve been catching Hermosa and going on tiny walks around the field. Like a couple circles. All fine. Today, I extended our walk, crossing the field. All was going well when Caso fired ahead and she realised she couldn’t run after him. That made her unhappy and she started spinning in circles around me. That made Caso even more alarmed and he moved further away. At which point their field buddy, an old TB gelding, picked up on the excitement and ran over. Caso ran towards him, and he started to round him up a bit. Hermosa lost. Her. Sh1t and started fighting me like a trapped mustang. My headcollar can be whipped on or off in a hurry, so I whipped it off. It seemed like only a matter of time before she ripped herself loose. She rounded up Caso and everyone galloped around the field for a couple minutes.

Once she’d settled, I approached. Headcollar back on. Let her graze a bit wearing it, then walked her in a few smaller circles. She’s fine so long as baby stays close. Then OH and I found her itchy spots. OH managed to get foal to let him scritch him. He’s a damned foal whisperer.

The odd time I’ve been a witness to other people having foals, the first week seemed easier. But maybe it wasn’t and I wasn’t paying enough attention.


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## Clodagh (15 June 2021)

I wouldn't try to teach her to lead at the moment, let her be a mum and put the headollar on, scratches and attention, headcollar off. Making her lead when she isn't very good at it anyway and you don't need to turn her in and out or whatever is possibly making things more difficult.


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## milliepops (15 June 2021)

i got to know mine when they were stabled.  But my mare was also super relaxed about being handled. she was poked and prodded throughout her pregnancy and I was there at the birth so it was just normal for me to be quietly pottering about from the start.

I just sat in a corner on a few wads of straw and waited for foal to be curious and approach me, she learnt pretty much straight away that people = scratches and she hasn't stopped demanding them since then. The mare being chilled was probably a big factor though, she would whicker and follow if foal wandered off but it didn't stress her. I am clearly no expert at all but I'd try to get them in a smaller quiet area before setting up any exercises with Hermosa so that you aren't inadvertently creating drama for yourselves. is that possible?  if not perhaps give it a bit longer before doing anything structured and wait for her to be more relaxed about foal coming and going.


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## Amymay (15 June 2021)

If you want to take her for a walk around the field, you have a handler to take baby too.  Your YO will show you how to do this with hand on chest and bum..  But, yes, not surprised it all went a bit per shaped


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## CanteringCarrot (15 June 2021)

Don't let it get to you. New mum, new foal, fairly new owner, and mum that's still quite green in terms of handling. 

I could see why she'd panic a bit when her foal could be out of reach and she didn't know if she could get to him/protect him. The foal and everything about it is still so new to her. 

I would also only work with them without the field buddy/another horse in there at this time.

Keep it really short, positive, and basic. Don't set her up for failure.


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## milliepops (15 June 2021)

Clodagh said:



			I wouldn't try to teach her to lead at the moment, let her be a mum and put the headollar on, scratches and attention, headcollar off. Making her lead when she isn't very good at it anyway and you don't need to turn her in and out or whatever is possibly making things more difficult.
		
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yeah she probably can't concentrate on what OP is asking because her mind is so focused on her new baby.  I'd expect her to go backwards in any learning tbh because of the disruptive effect of her new responsibility.


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## Caol Ila (15 June 2021)

She was actually good at it. We had to go up and down a road for about ten minutes each way to her old turn out field and she was doing great with cars, bikes, cows, pigs, and ridden horses. We’d just started to go on longer in hand hacks, which obviously ceased and desisted once we learned she was due to foal that week.

It seemed imperative to get her caught and leading a bit in case there was a vet emergency. And there was one.

Everyone else on this forum who’s had a foal seems to be able to handle it from day 1. Same with people I’ve seen with foals in meatspace. I still wonder if they wouldn’t be better off with someone else.


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## milliepops (15 June 2021)

but I think you need to appreciate that, as much as your world has gone upside down, so has Hermosa's. plus she's now got all these extra hormones swirling around, and a new life that she has to protect.  So what she had learned recently has probably gone out of the window. With older mares they've normally had years of handling that is really well established.


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## Abi90 (15 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Everyone else on this forum who’s had a foal seems to be able to handle it from day 1. Same with people I’ve seen with foals in meatspace. I still wonder if they wouldn’t be better off with someone else.
		
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I met Percy at 5 days old and, despite having done a lot of handling of foals and been told he was really friendly, all I got was sniffed a bit and managed about 5 seconds of scratches! There’s no way I would be getting a head collar near him yet or anything like that! It will come.


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## splashgirl45 (15 June 2021)

you are doing fine....i had never handled foals until i went to my last yard,  i had the breeder to tell me what to do and i coped and now i still go back when needed to help with mares and foals.  its really nice when you get a foal to lead nicely and doesnt usually take long..you have your YO who knows what to do so ask for a bit of guidance..good luck


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## littleshetland (15 June 2021)

Please be patient, it'll all pan out ok.  A lot of  foals are born in foaling boxes with humans at close proximity, popping in and out, so they get familiarised a bit quicker.  Just spend this time enjoying having them around.  There really is plenty of time to start handling baby.


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## View (15 June 2021)

CI, please, please, stop piling pressure on yourself.

I understand the need to have a plan, to feel that you can just pop a headcollar on Hermosa, for you to want the same easy relationship with Hermosa and Caso that you feel every other owner has.

So much has been thrown at you so quickly.

You do need a plan - a plan to give yourself permission to just be.  Please make a definite decision to do nothing immediately.

you need time to grieve for Gypsum, come to terms with your decision to give her a dignified end and that you now own two beautiful youngsters.

a couple of weeks to process things and just be will do you the world of good.

breathe. Just breathe.


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## FinnishLapphund (15 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She was actually good at it. We had to go up and down a road for about ten minutes each way to her old turn out field and she was doing great with cars, bikes, cows, pigs, and ridden horses. We’d just started to go on longer in hand hacks, which obviously ceased and desisted once we learned she was due to foal that week.

It seemed imperative to get her caught and leading a bit in case there was a vet emergency. And there was one.

Everyone else on this forum who’s had a foal seems to be able to handle it from day 1. Same with people I’ve seen with foals in meatspace. I still wonder if they wouldn’t be better off with someone else.
		
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I presume that the majority of the ones who's been able to handle their foals from day one, didn't have to deal with a young mare whose breeder didn't teach her to be handled much before selling her to you. If anyone is to blame for this, it is not you, it is Hermosa's breeder. 

Also, even the most experienced horse expert can sometimes come across a situation where what usually works for them, doesn't. Horses is after all, live animals with a mind of their own.
I doubt anyone else would have done better than you, with Hermosa, and her foal. Time, and patience, and I'm sure you'll get there.


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## Spanny (15 June 2021)

CI, as an unconnected observer who knows nothing about foals, all I can say is that you're doing great. The universe seems to be throwing punch after punch your way and you keep getting back up and you keep fighting to do the best for your horses. I don't think anyone could do or ask more than that.


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## Clodagh (15 June 2021)

I think you’d be better off comparing Hermosa to say a feral but lightly handled pony off a moor than a brood mare at a stud.
Take it easy on yourself


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## paddy555 (15 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			In other news, I still have no idea what I’m doing.

I’ve been catching Hermosa and going on tiny walks around the field. Like a couple circles. All fine. Today, I extended our walk, crossing the field. All was going well when Caso fired ahead and she realised she couldn’t run after him. That made her unhappy and she started spinning in circles around me. That made Caso even more alarmed and he moved further away. At which point their field buddy, an old TB gelding, picked up on the excitement and ran over. Caso ran towards him, and he started to round him up a bit. Hermosa lost. Her. Sh1t and started fighting me like a trapped mustang. My headcollar can be whipped on or off in a hurry, so I whipped it off. It seemed like only a matter of time before she ripped herself loose. She rounded up Caso and everyone galloped around the field for a couple minutes.

Once she’d settled, I approached. Headcollar back on. Let her graze a bit wearing it, then walked her in a few smaller circles. She’s fine so long as baby stays close. Then OH and I found her itchy spots. OH managed to get foal to let him scritch him. He’s a damned foal whisperer.

The odd time I’ve been a witness to other people having foals, the first week seemed easier. But maybe it wasn’t and I wasn’t paying enough attention.
		
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please be careful. This is not a competition with other foal owners as to how quickly you can handle Caso.
This  put Caso in a dangerous position. He was loose without his mother and rang towards another horse even though it was  his field buddy. Without Hermosa to protect him anything could have happened, the TB could have gone for him and he could have ended up being kicked/lame or hurt in some way. Just because the TB may behave towards Caso when Hermosa is there doesn't mean he will if Caso is on his own.

In the normal course of events Caso, Hermosa and the TB have their own heirachy in the field. This disrupted that situation. That is not good for anyone and Caso is the vulnerable one.

All Hermosa learnt was if she runs around you and fights she can get loose and canter off. You released the headcollar quickly but if you hadn't she would have  simply got away from you which doesn't teach her anything and you could well have got hurt.
She is a young first time mother, she has to learn how to look after Caso and this simply increases her stress levels.

please slow down. Hermosa is trying to cope with Caso, she can't be expected to worry about her own training ATM. If you want to do something take them both into a stable, groom Hermosa and stritch Caso then very slowly over several days teach  Caso about a headcollar. Then lead them both around the stable and gradually move onto leading them both round a very small yard where if something goes wrong no one is going anywhere and they are both quite safe.

Look at everything you do from a safety POV. If something goes wrong you cannot hang onto Hermosa although you may be able to catch her. You certainly are not going to be able to catch and control Cato. The only thing that matters ATM is their safety and not putting them in a dangerous position.

Alternatively just leave them and  give them the chance to be horses and for Hermosa to enjoy her baby.


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## Caol Ila (15 June 2021)

I feel under pressure because YO would really like them to be able to go into Hermosa’s old field with the herd, the one that’s a ten minute walk up the road. They are currently in fields normally used for sheep, and they would quite like their sheep field back.

Might as well accept that this isn’t going to happen for a while. YO can’t catch her so she can’t do anything about it.


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## milliepops (15 June 2021)

Can the gelding be moved back so that you don't have the complication of an extra horse making things dodgy?


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## DabDab (15 June 2021)

I've halter trained a fair few foals and can't recall any that you could handle easily in the first week. Some foals are easier and some mares are more helpful than others. However, once you've established that physical contact I've always found the pennies do start to drop very quickly with foals. 

I agree with others, personally I would avoid leading Hermosa until the foal can be haltered and vaguely led with her.


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## Caol Ila (15 June 2021)

I really wish I could just sell them but there’s no point because there’s no way in hell they’re getting on a lorry.


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## Sandstone1 (15 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I feel under pressure because YO would really like them to be able to go into Hermosa’s old field with the herd, the one that’s a ten minute walk up the road. They are currently in fields normally used for sheep, and they would quite like their sheep field back.

Might as well accept that this isn’t going to happen for a while. YO can’t catch her so she can’t do anything about it.
		
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Cant the sheep just go in with them?


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## Caol Ila (15 June 2021)

Sandstone1 said:



			Cant the sheep just go in with them?
		
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No idea. I know less about sheep than I do about foals.


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## Sandstone1 (15 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			No idea. I know less about sheep than I do about foals.
		
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Well mixing grazing animals is normally good so I cant see why not?  Pretty sure sheep and ponies mix on the welsh mountains.


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## milliepops (15 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I really wish I could just sell them but there’s no point because there’s no way in hell they’re getting on a lorry.
		
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If you *really* aren't wanting to keep either of them then that could be overcome. Completely feral ponies are herded onto lorries,  where there's a will there's a way.


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## LadyGascoyne (15 June 2021)

milliepops said:



			If you *really* aren't wanting to keep either of them then that could be overcome. Completely feral ponies are herded onto lorries,  where there's a will there's a way.
		
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I agree with this, and would add that you shouldn’t keep them because you feel trapped.

I am sure that you have the necessary horsemanship skills to get through this and produce two lovely horses CI. But that doesn’t mean that you have to.

Horses are meant to be fun and it’s hard enough work when they are bringing you joy. None of us are in your shoes right now and I just wanted to say that if you did decide not to keep going with them, I hope you know that you’d have support here regardless.


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## milliepops (15 June 2021)

My yo just picked up her almost unhandled yearling from stud and manhandled it onto the lorry with a calm experienced horse to bring home. 

My now-3yo was sedated to travel to me, as he had to get on a transporter lorry at a set time. I'm just now getting round to teaching him how to load as he has no idea what happened. 

It can be done. Are you really feeling like you want an "out" because I think if you advertised as a young mare not lorry trained I doubt it was be off-putting to the right people.


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## Berpisc (15 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She was actually good at it. We had to go up and down a road for about ten minutes each way to her old turn out field and she was doing great with cars, bikes, cows, pigs, and ridden horses. We’d just started to go on longer in hand hacks, which obviously ceased and desisted once we learned she was due to foal that week.

It seemed imperative to get her caught and leading a bit in case there was a vet emergency. And there was one.

Everyone else on this forum who’s had a foal seems to be able to handle it from day 1. Same with people I’ve seen with foals in meatspace. I still wonder if they wouldn’t be better off with someone else.
		
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I cant speak for everyone but would say no, it doesnt all go smoothly. Hermosa was worried about her foal, and got upset. You did the right thing afterwards to pop the headcollar on. You can build confidence in small steps. But dont think it all goes smoothly for everyone else


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## paddy555 (15 June 2021)

milliepops said:



			If you *really* aren't wanting to keep either of them then that could be overcome. Completely feral ponies are herded onto lorries,  where there's a will there's a way.
		
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absolutely. We have helped load lots of complete ferals quite easily. 

At some stage they will have to be moved unless they are going to live there for the rest of their lives. 

we brought home all our youngsters in a lorry and only one of them had loaded before. When I bought them I didn't even ask if they would load or had travelled. I didn't expect them to have. One, who came at 3, had travelled and had an accident travelling when stuff fell on him. We still got him in and let him travel loose. 


 Someone who is capable of taking on a 3yo Spanish is not going to worry too much or even expect her to be trained to load. They will either have their own transport or employ a professional transporter.


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## splashgirl45 (15 June 2021)

sounds like your YO is pressurising you to put hermosa and caso in to the herd,  if it was me i would try and find somewhere else,    why not take quadro up on her suggestion,  herd the 2 of them on to a lorry, maybe give hermosa a little sedative,  you say its 40 miles away,  thats approx an hour and do able once a day to check them and give hermosa a bit of fuss.  when i had problems finding flat grazing for my old horse i travelled 50 miles daily for 3 months until i moved closer.  if quadro is happy to help you for that amount of time it would give you breathing space to calm down and get over your loss which is very recent.  you may make a decision to sell now and regret it in a couple of months.  i think you need to take a step back and try and relax..  hope you can soon sort things out and sorry quadro if i am putting you on the spot...


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## I'm Dun (15 June 2021)

I have sheep that live with my horses, lots of people do.


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## maya2008 (15 June 2021)

I would agree that with the right help, you could get them both loaded and somewhere more suitable. Or someone else could, if that is really what you want.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (16 June 2021)

CI you need to go away for a couple of days. Tell your YO you are going away for the weekend and go decompress. I’ve said this so many times now on this thread. Step back, stop trying to control everything, stop trying to be perfect, stop with this faux unreachable ideal you seem to have created based on watching other people. It’s giving you seriously unrealistic views of what having a youngster is.

You bought this mare for a reason, you saw something you liked but now you are hating the whole thing because of a mess you have made for yourself by trying to do make unrealistic and quite frankly unreachable deadlines. I know it feels like people are probably being cruel to you, I know you don’t particularly like me despite the fact I’ve met you and never had an issue with you on here, but listen to the sense I’m talking, stop dismissing taking a step back. It’s not a failure and you seem to have it in your head that it is.

What would be a failure is you getting rid of this mare because you have overwhelmed yourself.


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## Caol Ila (16 June 2021)

I don't have an issue with you. Or anyone on this forum, to be fair.

It just seems impossible to take a step back when the vet, for instance, tells me she won't check my mare for a post-foaling infection unless I can catch her and lead her from A to B. I was able to do that on Sunday evening and mare got checked, but that sort of thing certainly keeps the pressure on. Maybe in parts of the country where there are more feral/semi-feral hill ponies, vets have ways and means (or maybe everyone just hopes for the best!), but that doesn't seem to be a thing here.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (16 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I don't have an issue with you. Or anyone on this forum, to be fair.

It just seems impossible to take a step back when the vet, for instance, tells me she won't check my mare for a post-foaling infection unless I can catch her and lead her from A to B. I was able to do that on Sunday evening and mare got checked, but that sort of thing certainly keeps the pressure on. Maybe in parts of the country where there are more feral/semi-feral hill ponies, vets have ways and means (or maybe everyone just hopes for the best!), but that doesn't seem to be a thing here.
		
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Who ever that vet is is not acting very professionally. A vet cannot refuse to treat an animal. Cows and sheep aren’t halter trained. Do they refuse to treat them? I get its a safety thing however they have no right to put that pressure on you. They have sedation for a reason. If The mare can be caught and held for injection then that seems to me to be enough for the moment.

Go give yourself a break. You really need a some headspace x


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## Caol Ila (16 June 2021)

She was making a big deal about Hermosa being "unhandled" and wanting to get her into a barn where we could build stocks with straw bales. Started off with saying that she wouldn't treat the horse unless we did that but thankfully backed down from that. Moving the two from the field to the barn seemed monumentally stupid and dangerous. Catching horse and sedating in field was not, although vet insisted that I lead Hermosa from the far end of the field to the gate (which we achieved, with baby bouncing along). If my normal vet, who's seen Gypsum for the last ten years, had been on-call, he would have trusted my judgement of the situation more and it would have been less fraught, but when you put in an emergency call on Sunday evening, you get the vet you get.

The reality is that while she's not as halter-broken as would be ideal, she is amenable -- even now -- to you running your hands all over her body. My QH would try to kill you when you touched her in certain places. Hermosa's fine. Doesn't care. And once sedated, she was fine with the vet's arm inside her.

It all makes you feel like you need to get all the basic handling solidly in place, ASAP, simply so vets will treat your damned horses.

You're also right that it would be stupid to sell them in the heat of the moment. I could really regret it later, and there's no going back from that decision.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (16 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She was making a big deal about Hermosa being "unhandled" and wanting to get her into a barn where we could build stocks with straw bales. Started off with saying that she wouldn't treat the horse unless we did that but thankfully backed down from that. Moving the two from the field to the barn seemed monumentally stupid and dangerous. Catching horse and sedating in field was not, although vet insisted that I lead Hermosa from the far end of the field to the gate (which she did, with baby bouncing along). If my normal vet, who's seen Gypsum for the last ten years, had been on-call, he would have trusted my judgement of the situation more and it would have been less fraught, but when you put in an emergency call on Sunday evening, you get the vet you get.

The reality is that while she's not as halter-broken as would be ideal, she is amenable -- even now -- to you running your hands all over her body. My QH would try to kill you when you touched her in certain places. Hermosa's fine. Doesn't care. And once sedated, she was fine with the vet's arm inside her.

It all makes you feel like you need to get all the basic handling solidly in place, simply so vets will treat your damned horse.

You're also right that it would be stupid to sell them in the heat of the moment. I could really regret it later, and there's no going back from that decision.
		
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You can put your foot down with a vet. This is your horse, you are doing what you can with what you have been given. From what you have put on here in the previous weeks she is not wild. Your vet seems to have taken relatively unhandled as the mare being wild. She’s not. Yes there was a blip with her baby but that’s a learning moment. You know now not to do that but she will stand and let herself be touched and if the vet has any issues then sedate her. It won’t hurt her to be sedated if the vet feels they have to do it.

Please stop allowing people to put pressure on you. It is very hard but they are making this harder for you. No is not a dirty word. If that vet won’t treat then find another one and put in a complaint. I won’t have certain vets attend my horses as I don’t like their methods or manner.

Yes you would regret it. You are overwhelmed and it’s hurting to see it. You have for two beautiful babies there and instead of just being able to appreciate how blessed new life is people are piling the pressure on you. You should be sitting in the field in the sun admiring your mare, admiring the lovely colt she has not seeing them as a burden. I hope this changes soon for you and you can enjoy them.

Give yourself a big hug and take some Kindness time x


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## View (16 June 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			You are overwhelmed and it’s hurting to see it. You have for two beautiful babies there and instead of just being able to appreciate how blessed new life is people are piling the pressure on you. You should be sitting in the field in the sun admiring your mare, admiring the lovely colt she has not seeing them as a burden. I hope this changes soon for you and you can enjoy them.

Give yourself a big hug and take some kindness tine.
		
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This, a thousand times over.

I am so desperately sorry that you aren’t being allowed to enjoy them.

You are a good owner - you listen to what your horses are telling you.  I wish there was something practical I could do for you right now, but I’m 400 miles away.  Moral support is the best I can do.

You will get through this - because you (we) always do.


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## CanteringCarrot (16 June 2021)

It's all worked out so far, hasn't it?

The foaling went quite well, the YO has been fairly accommodating, you were able to be at this yard before she foaled (even though you didn't know that she was pregnant), Caso is healthy, the vet was able to do the exam/treatment, no one was hurt in the slight training in the field mishap. A lot of positives there and a lot of things that could've gone wrong, but didn't.

You've even got back up now (Quadro) should something happen with this yard.

You've got someone already interested in buying the foal if you choose to sell him.

You've got two lovely healthy horses.

There really are horses that are more feral until 3 or 4, or even longer that are fine.

Mine was quite feral until he was started under saddle at 4. He's easy to handle. We also had some mishaps when I first got him, but we figured it out. PRE's are smart.

Don't let the pressures and what-ifs ruin this time for you.

I am also an over thinker and do compare myself sometimes. Just yesterday in my riding lesson I was getting all flustered in my head about my horse not doing things perfect that I know he can do. This was probably because he felt my deteriorating mood 😅 so it did no one involved any favors to think like this. I am always saying my horse needs to live more in the moment (he can anticipate) and do what is asked in that moment and not worry about the rest...hmm...same advice applies to the human 🤣


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## scats (16 June 2021)

CI, there’s no shame in saying this isn’t what you signed up for and isn’t what you want.
I would take all the pressure off yourself for a week or two while you have a think about the situation.  Not just about the foal, but Hermosa aswell.
If you decide that you would rather sell them both at this stage, it can be done.  You aren’t stuck in this situation and you do have options.
Take care x


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## katastrophykat (16 June 2021)

CI- I agree with the other posters generally however it’s never easy when you’re in that situation. I planned my foal for two years before he arrived and it still didn’t go to plan in weeks 1-3! 

What I would say just now is 

1- the mare will be more foal proud in the first three weeks, it *should* lessen after that. 

2- if you can get the TB out of the way before handling either of yours, then do it, or more ideally full time- leave Hermosa and Baby to their own place if you can. 

3- try to give the foal a chance at least, I put my mare and foal back into a quiet herd at 3 weeks- they got separated, I have never been so scared. It ended well, but not before the foal was pushed into a fence- I was at livery too, although YO had agreed to us breeding at the yard, we still didn’t have a ‘perfect’ setup and had to slot them in early. TBH, the benefit for me was that the Alpha mare adopted Gunner, he used his Mum as a milk bar and occasional companion  and barely noticed her missing when I weaned him- it was the easiest weaning I’ve seen- he came in with mum and alpha mare, Mum went into another barn along the yard, he stood in the next stable to Alpha mare for an hour or so and went back to the field with her… job done! 

4- if you need to, foals are fairly easily handled- either with a figure of 8 lead rope or using a headcollar as a harness for the first few weeks. Just scratch him to settle him and pop your arm round the chest and bum to keep him there while you work. Try to make it fun for next time(!) and if you can, get a very light leather foal slip onto him- ideally with a Velcro fitting in case he gets caught up, then it makes little handling sessions easier.

5- yes, sheep are absolutely fine to go in with horses abs foals! They make for good XC jumps- or so my foaly told me! 

Mine was in overnight for the first three weeks so used to going with his dam, but we had him led gently alongside after two weeks rather than loose and a halter on when he was out.  

Just my experience, in case it helps.


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## maya2008 (16 June 2021)

If it makes you feel any better, our little mare still does not lead (have had her 2.5 months) - she will follow a bucket or a polo, but not a person with a lead rope on. She gave birth last night, there is no hope in anything anyone is putting their arm inside her without sedation, nor are they going to get a needle in to sedate. It took 30mins to get a vaccination into her last Thursday. After being categorically told not to move her in case she rejected the foal, we had no choice last night, so a feed bucket and a best friend leading the way it was! 

We know nothing about foals - just like you. Going to take one day at a time. The difference here though is we don’t have a YO putting pressure on. In your position, I think I would try to get them to Quadro’s. Leading a tiny baby down the road isn’t great, and having a foal out in a big herd isn’t great. If you had her somewhere safe, you could relax and take things at her pace.


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## ycbm (16 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I really wish I could just sell them but there’s no point because there’s no way in hell they’re getting on a lorry.
		
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This one's usually pretty easy to solve actually.  Experienced transporters will effectively pick up a foal that small and place him in the lorry/trailer and his mother will almost always  follow to protect him. If you sell them the buyer will sort that out.
.


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## brighteyes (16 June 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			It's all worked out so far, hasn't it?

The foaling went quite well, the YO has been fairly accommodating, you were able to be at this yard before she foaled (even though you didn't know that she was pregnant), Caso is healthy, the vet was able to do the exam/treatment, no one was hurt in the slight training in the field mishap. A lot of positives there and a lot of things that could've gone wrong, but didn't.

You've even got back up now (Quadro) should something happen with this yard.

You've got someone already interested in buying the foal if you choose to sell him.

You've got two lovely healthy horses.

There really are horses that are more feral until 3 or 4, or even longer that are fine.

Mine was quite feral until he was started under saddle at 4. He's easy to handle. We also had some mishaps when I first got him, but we figured it out. PRE's are smart.

Don't let the pressures and what-ifs ruin this time for you.

I am also an over thinker and do compare myself sometimes. Just yesterday in my riding lesson I was getting all flustered in my head about my horse not doing things perfect that I know he can do. This was probably because he felt my deteriorating mood 😅 so it did no one involved any favors to think like this. I am always saying my horse needs to live more in the moment (he can anticipate) and do what is asked in that moment and not worry about the rest...hmm...same advice applies to the human 🤣
		
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Yes to all this.


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## brighteyes (16 June 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			CI you need to go away for a couple of days. Tell your YO you are going away for the weekend and go decompress. I’ve said this so many times now on this thread. Step back, stop trying to control everything, stop trying to be perfect, stop with this faux unreachable ideal you seem to have created based on watching other people. It’s giving you seriously unrealistic views of what having a youngster is.

You bought this mare for a reason, you saw something you liked but now you are hating the whole thing because of a mess you have made for yourself by trying to do make unrealistic and quite frankly unreachable deadlines. I know it feels like people are probably being cruel to you, I know you don’t particularly like me despite the fact I’ve met you and never had an issue with you on here, but listen to the sense I’m talking, stop dismissing taking a step back. It’s not a failure and you seem to have it in your head that it is.

What would be a failure is you getting rid of this mare because you have overwhelmed yourself.
		
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I completely agree with that last line, at least as a knee-jerk reaction. I think it would be one you might regret. They are both lovely - and in the perfect situation you'd be bursting with pride. It makes me so sad you feel they are a millstone round your neck at the moment.


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## palo1 (16 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She was actually good at it. We had to go up and down a road for about ten minutes each way to her old turn out field and she was doing great with cars, bikes, cows, pigs, and ridden horses. We’d just started to go on longer in hand hacks, which obviously ceased and desisted once we learned she was due to foal that week.

It seemed imperative to get her caught and leading a bit in case there was a vet emergency. And there was one.

Everyone else on this forum who’s had a foal seems to be able to handle it from day 1. Same with people I’ve seen with foals in meatspace. I still wonder if they wouldn’t be better off with someone else.
		
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Nah!  That is just not the case.  A great many people with foaling mares have an established and long term relationship with that horse already secured.  That makes life a whole lot easier.  Everything can be planned and situations set up in advance.  But, in other settings no-one is going to publicly share how difficult they find it, how shy their mare has become, how tedious and worrying it all is and how they have had to join the dots to get through things.  That is just the way social media works sadly.  It is lovely that on the whole, here on HHO people with foals have chosen to  breed and are intensely connected to the whole process but in the wider world there are many mares that are either little or poorly handled who don't find post-foaling handling very interesting or easy or who become anxious about their babies and reject attempts to 'do stuff'.  Hermosa herself is young, finding her 'place' and has had significant disruption in her life - I would be actually slightly astonished if all of a sudden she 'turned herself in' with her new baby.  You are doing fabulously if you can headcollar her and get closer to Caso.  I think that is great and for now just doing that with loads of treats and loads of praise is a really good way forward.  If you need to move mum and baby as an emergency, you will need a handler for the foal but it sounds like you could sort that.  Don't cross those bridges unless and until you need to!!  

 Oddly enough, we had a mare that foaled (deliberate breeding  ) The mare was very relaxed and well handled and from the off was completely fine for us to handle her baby - who we still have.  BUT my gelding was off the scale stressed about it all; the mare was his best friend and they were happily turned out together after foaling. When we took her to the yard with foalie for a vet check, he completely lost the plot and smashed up several fences in his efforts to get to her. He was really hard to deal with for a couple of weeks and it seemed kinder to just leave him to his new, completely imagined responsibilities!! Hahahahaha!!  I think Hermosa is a great mum - she is clearly very focussed on keeping her gorgeous baby safe so she is doing a good job for you in that - you really don't want a mare that isn't interested and isn't looking out for her foal - truly you don't as that is a real nightmare.  I think you are doing a great job even if you feel awful.  I am sorry you feel so badly about what you are doing though - I am not sure anyone in your position could do better honestly.


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## palo1 (16 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			She was making a big deal about Hermosa being "unhandled" and wanting to get her into a barn where we could build stocks with straw bales. Started off with saying that she wouldn't treat the horse unless we did that but thankfully backed down from that. Moving the two from the field to the barn seemed monumentally stupid and dangerous. Catching horse and sedating in field was not, although vet insisted that I lead Hermosa from the far end of the field to the gate (which we achieved, with baby bouncing along). If my normal vet, who's seen Gypsum for the last ten years, had been on-call, he would have trusted my judgement of the situation more and it would have been less fraught, but when you put in an emergency call on Sunday evening, you get the vet you get.

The reality is that while she's not as halter-broken as would be ideal, she is amenable -- even now -- to you running your hands all over her body. My QH would try to kill you when you touched her in certain places. Hermosa's fine. Doesn't care. And once sedated, she was fine with the vet's arm inside her.

It all makes you feel like you need to get all the basic handling solidly in place, ASAP, simply so vets will treat your damned horses.

You're also right that it would be stupid to sell them in the heat of the moment. I could really regret it later, and there's no going back from that decision.
		
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Blimey - I understand why some vets might request a safe place but the good vets I know are calm, pragmatic and not remotely flaky.  You are right in that your normal vet would be more supportive of you.  Emergencies happen and you dealt with it but ordinarily a good vet wouldn't find your situation difficult I don't think.


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## meleeka (16 June 2021)

palo1 said:



			Blimey - I understand why some vets might request a safe place but the good vets I know are calm, pragmatic and not remotely flaky.  You are right in that your normal vet would be more supportive of you.  Emergencies happen and you dealt with it but ordinarily a good vet wouldn't find your situation difficult I don't think.
		
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agree with this.  I think you just need to have some time of no dramas for you to just breathe and process all that’s happened lately.  It’s a lot for anyone to cope with!   So far, you’ve made all the correct decisions.  Somewhere down the line you’ll have to make some more, but hopefully by then you’ll have the time to think things through properly.


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## Sandstone1 (16 June 2021)

If the yard owner is pressing for you to move them because she needs the field for sheep just say put the sheep in with them.  I cant see any reason why not and its a learning experience for mare and foal.  Foal is only a week old! mare is bound to be protective of the foal, its just natural!   There is a great book by Sarah Weston, No fear no force.  its really good for unhandled horses and might give you some tips.  Why not just give yourself a bit of time to step back and just let things be for a couple of weeks.  Let mare and foal settle.  Give yourself a break.


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## Trouper (16 June 2021)

Sounds like you got the nervous duty vet that day - which is a shame as it sounds as if there was just more fuss than there needed to be.   

When a friend's mare foaled, we had to lead them along a quiet lane for a couple of hundred yards to get to the field - twice a day!!   One of us led the mare and the other had a towel round the foal's chest, the ends of which could then be held with one hand at the withers while the other hand guided the bum.   As he was a lively, little b.....r, this at least enabled us to keep control of him without a headcollar when he decided he should be in front!!  The secret was to keep the pace the same, as one racing ahead sets alarm bells going for the mare.
If the foal responds to your OH then perhaps he could be on foal duty for this??

As for you, I don't have a "towel" solution!!!   You really do need to just take some time.  Worrying about what needs to be done in a few weeks' time is not helping the here and now when you just need to be putting the very basics in place.   And if you rush those basics then you are storing up trouble for the future.  Hermosa may be letting you headcollar her and lead her round the field but I guess she is not "learning" much from that.   At the moment she is just too foal-focused - as she should be if the foal is to grow up confident and well-adjusted.   I would also guess that the foal is responding more to your OH as his stress and anxiety levels are probably way below yours!!    You know how they can even pick up on anxious breathing from us.

As everyone on here has said - endlessly - try and just take some time to relax and enjoy them.  You will make better decisions that way - for all of you.     Lecture ends.


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## twiggy2 (16 June 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			Who ever that vet is is not acting very professionally. A vet cannot refuse to treat an animal. Cows and sheep aren’t halter trained. Do they refuse to treat them? I get its a safety thing however they have no right to put that pressure on you. They have sedation for a reason. If The mare can be caught and held for injection then that seems to me to be enough for the moment.

Go give yourself a break. You really need a some headspace x
		
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If cows are not quiet and halter trained they go in a crush, even if they are they usually go in a crush for everyone's safety  sheep just get caught and manhandled so they are not the same risk as a horse or a cow. They can refuse to treat an animal if it cannot be done safely, the horse needs to be restrained for sedation.
I haven't ever known a horse to be examined for post labour infection but I have limited experience of foaling mares.


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## laura_nash (16 June 2021)

I use two vet practises.  One is a pet and horses vets.  I use them for the less obvious stuff. I expect they would react similarly. The other is a farm vets I use for straightforward stuff and the cows. Pretty sure they consider being able to get a headcollar on as a bonus. 

I've little experience breeding horses but we did have an unplanned bogoff calf when we first got them that legally had to be ear tagged with x days when we were lucky to get within 10 metres of mum so I do understand that feeling of pressure and that envy of watching youtube videos where they sit next to calf while mum looks on happily when your situation is somewhat different.


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## Jeni the dragon (16 June 2021)

I couldn't touch my foal for at least a week! And I had owned my mare for over 10 years at that point!
A friends mare was in the same field and she foaled the following day. If you got within 100 metres of her you were brave! She was extremely foal proud!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (16 June 2021)

ycbm said:



			This one's usually pretty easy to solve actually.  Experienced transporters will effectively pick up a foal that small and place him in the lorry/trailer and his mother will almost always  follow to protect him. If you sell them the buyer will sort that out.
.
		
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However,  foals cannot be travelled under 10 days old without a veterinary agreement.


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## shortstuff99 (16 June 2021)

Do you follow Warwick Schiller? His facebook page at the moment is foal handling, and he has some really great tips.


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## Asha (16 June 2021)

I cant understand why people are disappointed with the vet. I dont blame them.. mare is unhandled and foal proud and out in the field. I wouldnt fancy examining a horse, that was no doubt still a bit sore in that situation either.


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## meleeka (16 June 2021)

Asha said:



			I cant understand why people are disappointed with the vet. I dont blame them.. mare is unhandled and foal proud and out in the field. I wouldnt fancy examining a horse, that was no doubt still a bit sore in that situation either.
		
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She’s not unhandled though, she just hasn’t learnt to lead nicely.  OP has stated she’s happy to be touched all over and used to a headcollar and lead rein.  She was being sedated anyway.


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## HBB (16 June 2021)

I wouldn't turn an infant foal out in an established herd, it would probably end in disaster.
OP I am going against the grain here, you sound completely overwhelmed with this situation, if you want to sell them do it and find yourself a horse that you can crack on and ride. Be kind to yourself and take off the pressure x


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## southerncomfort (16 June 2021)

What about getting out a trainer experienced in handling mares and foals? Someone like Richard Maxwell?  He would definitely be able to help you establish leading etc with Hermosa and show you how to handle the foal if YO is adamant they have to move.

His book is excellent by the way and also describes how to handle feet.  I think you'd find it really useful.


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## hollyandivy123 (16 June 2021)

hi grand foal and mum

Now breath.....you have time to winter

1. ask your vet/farrier/tack shop if they knows of any small studs who would take a mare and foal, i use to livery at a stud and this might be a doable option
2. she is not unhandled or feral, so please don't say this as it will give the wrong impression when you talk to new yard owners
3. i don't know Glasgow or this stud but, although for you it might be a long commute but to put her is an environment, which would be good for the mare and at weaning the foal will be in an established herd of youngsters, on Facebook there was one called "Brookfield Stud", but there are others in the area. just keep it simple when you explain, bought young mare x months ago, found out on date x in foal, foal popped out on date y. now unexpectantly looking for mare and foal livery as yard not suitable, if they can't help can they recommend someone in the area.  


and breath


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## brighteyes (16 June 2021)

palo1 said:



			Blimey - I understand why some vets might request a safe place but the good vets I know are calm, pragmatic and not remotely flaky.  You are right in that your normal vet would be more supportive of you.  Emergencies happen and you dealt with it but ordinarily a good vet wouldn't find your situation difficult I don't think.
		
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You didn’t engineer any of this and are doing as well as any of us would be in this situation. This isn’t a case of ignorance and negligence on your part one iota.


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## paddy555 (16 June 2021)

Asha said:



			I cant understand why people are disappointed with the vet. I dont blame them.. mare is unhandled and foal proud and out in the field. I wouldnt fancy examining a horse, that was no doubt still a bit sore in that situation either.
		
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the vet has to live another day. They cannot put themselves in a dangerous situation which examining this mare could have been. They have to take every precaution to try and protect themselves.


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## Caol Ila (16 June 2021)

The YO has started characterizing her as "unhandled." That's how the vet got it in her head that she was "wild." This might be because Hermosa has developed a deep and abiding hatred of YO's dog, and if said dog is in the vicinity (and it's attached to YO like glue), no one can catch her.  

Everyone who is saying to hold off on a decision is right. 

It's helpful reading everyone else's tales of skittish moms and foals.


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## milliepops (16 June 2021)

in fairness it's probably a bit awkward for YO too, she thought you were coming for youngstock livery not bringing a mare and foal  
everyone is going through a period of adjustment, aren't they 

hope it starts to feel calmer soon.


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## Amymay (16 June 2021)

CI.  DO NOT LET YO PRESSURE YOU IN PUTTING THEM OUT WITH THE HERD!


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## OrangeAndLemon (16 June 2021)

If it helps, I see experienced grooms leading calm mares and (not as calm) foals to their paddocks and back regularly and almost everytime when they're in their first few weeks, it looks like managed disaster. And it is always two experienced grooms working together. 

The thing is, this is their job, they do it everyday at this time of year, they always work in pairs and when stuff doesn't go perfectly they don't even notice, because that is normal. 

Stop being so hard on yourself, it sounds like you are managing incredibly well. Just relax and try to find some time to just sit and watch your lovely new foal (and possibly, take more pictures )


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## NinjaPony (16 June 2021)

Honestly you are doing the best you can in an incredibly difficult situation that you never asked to be put in. Please be kind to yourself.

I’m getting the impression from your posts that your YO is not being as supportive and helpful as you’d like. I know that finding somewhere is very difficult, but feel that perhaps you’d be happier and less stressed if Hermosa and Caso were in a ‘foal friendly’ environment where you could get some support around handling etc, and a more suitable set up. For the time being, it will do them both no harm having some time to get to know each other and you without any outside stress.

ETA appreciate that YO didn’t realise this would happen either, it’s not anyone’s fault just one of those things!


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## JJS (16 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			In other news, I still have no idea what I’m doing.

I’ve been catching Hermosa and going on tiny walks around the field. Like a couple circles. All fine. Today, I extended our walk, crossing the field. All was going well when Caso fired ahead and she realised she couldn’t run after him. That made her unhappy and she started spinning in circles around me. That made Caso even more alarmed and he moved further away. At which point their field buddy, an old TB gelding, picked up on the excitement and ran over. Caso ran towards him, and he started to round him up a bit. Hermosa lost. Her. Sh1t and started fighting me like a trapped mustang. My headcollar can be whipped on or off in a hurry, so I whipped it off. It seemed like only a matter of time before she ripped herself loose. She rounded up Caso and everyone galloped around the field for a couple minutes.

Once she’d settled, I approached. Headcollar back on. Let her graze a bit wearing it, then walked her in a few smaller circles. She’s fine so long as baby stays close. Then OH and I found her itchy spots. OH managed to get foal to let him scritch him. He’s a damned foal whisperer.

The odd time I’ve been a witness to other people having foals, the first week seemed easier. But maybe it wasn’t and I wasn’t paying enough attention.
		
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I think you’re in desperate need of a reality check, OP. I mean that in the nicest way possible. If you think the first week is easy for anyone, you really haven’t been paying enough attention 😂 People tend to share the best parts, so when someone like you or me has a BOGOF arrive, we’re in for a bit of a culture shock.

When I got Mary, she’d been dragged out of a field at four (she was unhandled up to that point), broken in, and sold on to three different homes in six weeks as part of the breaking process. She’s not a stereotypical dope-on-a-rope cob who takes everything in her stride either. She’s sweet as pie, but sensitive is an understatement.

So, we spent from August until April taking everything slowly. I’d got her because my seven year old had retired five months earlier. He’d shattered my confidence - both ridden and on the ground - and his condition was degenerative. All of those years we were supposed to have together were ripped away, and I was grieving for him even though I hadn’t lost him at that point. I loved him immensely, but I had to come to terms with the fact that he was never going to make old bones.

By April, when I found out Mary was in foal, I felt like we’d finally started to get somewhere ridden-wise - and then I realised she was going to have an awful lot of time off. From a confidence perspective, that was the last thing I needed; from a financial point of view, it was even worse. I was 25, self-employed, and going up to three horses had been a stretch.

The reality I was suddenly faced with was four horses, and none of them able to be ridden. One was old and small, the other was my seven-year-old retiree, and now suddenly I had a mare and foal to contend with too.

What I’m proud of is how I stepped up to the plate, but God, it wasn’t easy! Don’t be fooled for a second into thinking it ever is! A couple of weeks before Mary foaled, Sixpence came down with lami, so I had one on box rest and another on foal watch, plus double the vet bills to cover. I could have panicked. Maybe I should have had a full-on meltdown. Instead, I made a conscious decision to enjoy it.

I am the world’s worst worrier, but I refused to let it ruin the experience for me. There were a good few weeks where Mary lost her head while leading. Any time Flower was out of her eye line, she panicked; any time another horse appeared on the other side of the fence, she had the same reaction. I lost count of the amount of times I had her lead rope dragged out of my hands as she disappeared into the distance, despite the fact we were practising in her own field.

I took the pressure off. I remembered that I could ask for and receive help. Any time I started to panic, I took a deliberate step back and reminded myself of how lucky I was to have my girls. When I ended up going through the worst time of my life a few months later, that surprise foal was one of the only things that brought a smile to my face anymore.

It isn’t easy, CI. It isn’t what you planned, nor what I had, but your fear and worry are ruining what ought to be a wonderful experience for you. Don’t let them. You’ll only regret it later if you do 🤷🏻‍♀️


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## paddy555 (16 June 2021)

Amymay said:



			CI.  DO NOT LET YO PRESSURE YOU IN PUTTING THEM OUT WITH THE HERD!
		
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this and don't get forced into leading them down a road with cars, ridden horses or anything else. You have no idea what the foal will do. He hasn't got a thought in his head or at least not a useful one. he could panic and run, he could run and try and play, he could do anything. If he runs Hermosa will take off after him and you may not be able to hold her. 

Wait until  you get Caso in a headcollar with a rump rope on and someone to lead and another person to shepherd him. 

As Ninja said this is no one's fault. Everyone is on a learning curve, it is just a case of making the best of a bad set of circumstances until you can work out what to do for the best and what you want. 

try looking ahead 2 or 3 years. Where do you see yourself?


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## milliepops (16 June 2021)

My *yearling* leads well, knows me inside out and likes doing things that involve learning and I STILL haven't gone out of the field gate with her in case I lose her  the reason we're doing lorry training now is so I can move fields, to a field we could walk to across the village... not going to take that chance. I agree that trying to lead a green mare with foal toddling around up a road is setting yourself up for potential disaster.  Hopefully the YO will agree to pop the other horse back and leave your 2 in peace with the sheep.


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## Caol Ila (16 June 2021)

In fairness to YO, I don't think she expects them to go into the herd now, and I hope she's realistic enough to see that it will take some time to get a headcollar on Caso, much less move him anywhere. But she wants them there eventually. Is this something that can safely be done when the foal is a few months old (YO tells me it is), or should it never, ever happen?


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## SusieT (16 June 2021)

'She was making a big deal about Hermosa being "unhandled" and wanting to get her into a barn where we could build stocks with straw bales. Started off with saying that she wouldn't treat the horse unless we did that but thankfully backed down from that. Moving the two from the field to the barn seemed monumentally stupid and dangerous. Catching horse and sedating in field was not, although vet insisted that I lead Hermosa from the far end of the field to the gate (which we achieved, with baby bouncing along). If my normal vet, who's seen Gypsum for the last ten years, had been on-call, he would have trusted my judgement of the situation more and it would have been less fraught, but when you put in an emergency call on Sunday evening, you get the vet you get.
'

To be fair why should vet put themself at risk doing a hind end exam on an unhandled, edgy mare with new foal? Would you trust a random stranger who has never had a newly foaled mare before above your own professional judgement? The vet is allowed to say they can only examine with safeguards in place for handlers. I'm not sure that can be blamed on the vet. Clearly it isn't your fault  you needed vet treatment, more the breeders but equally its not the vets fault and not their responsibility to be injured trusting a relatively novice breeding client.

Strongly suggest letting mare and foal chill, catch for feed daily and leave them to it otherwise unless ill again.


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## windand rain (16 June 2021)

yes it can be safely done from about 4 weeks if you have halter broken both the mare and foal by then. you will need extra hands though it wont be possible to do both at once for quite a while. My broodmares were always led in and out by one person but they were seasoned mares when the mares were young we used 2 people one for the foal and one for the mare keep the foal in front of the mare to avoid panic and encourage the foal forward with a bum rope


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## SusieT (16 June 2021)

'u can put your foot down with a vet. This is your horse, you are doing what you can with what you have been given. From what you have put on here in the previous weeks she is not wild. Your vet seems to have taken relatively unhandled as the mare being wild. She’s not. Yes there was a blip with her baby but that’s a learning moment. You know now not to do that but she will stand and let herself be touched and if the vet has any issues then sedate her. It won’t hurt her to be sedated if the vet feels they have to do it.

Cheeky Chestnut- would you pay that vets lifetime salary if your newly foaled mare who is liable to cart off if foal disappears decides to kick while having a rear end exam? No? Then I suspect you have to respect each vets/farriers etc professional judgement on the safe way to manage examination.


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## PurBee (16 June 2021)

Im realising from posts on this thread about leading foals difficulties, how easy i had it with my mare, who was experienced broodmare, but extremely foal proud. So i couldn't touch the foal in the first week at all.

Luckily though, she was handled well when i got her, so would lead…she wasnt nasty, just foal proud. So when i headcollared her, the foal followed wherever we went. I had to turn them out going along a really quiet shared track outside my property, and the foal followed. He would go to the verge, have a sniff, but wherever he wandered, it was never far from her, and mum would vocalise to him with a low short whinny/snicker to come to her.

I wonder if the TB in the same field is in this first week, interrupting the usual ‘glue like’ bond the mare and foal should be cementing. If Caso ran up to the tb when hermosa was headcollared, then he’s also attaching to other horses already and so isnt going to follow mum like glue. I’d remove the TB for this reason so that caso sticks with mum wherever she goes.

I understand you cant dictate what happens as its someone elses yard. But i was saved by my mare being experienced with foals and me not! Perhaps hermosa being maiden and inexperienced hasnt learnt yet with foals to call them to her? Its new for her too. New for everyone! 
So i wonder what others think, is the TB in the field interrupting the normal bonding so that caso isnt so attached to mum, but sees her as a milk bar? 

I didnt feel pressure to headcollar my foal due to him following wherever i lead her. Even at 12 weeks old, he followed us with just her being lead. 
That made moving them so easy, even as he got older and more brave, go further, he was always too scared to be too far away from mum.

If memory serves i headcollared him at around 8 weeks, but didnt use it for daily turn out all the time due to him glued to her. Even at 16 weeks he’d follow, and he was much bigger and braver/independent then, quite the little sh1t at times!…but still glued to her. 

Perhaps in the coming weeks Caso will become more attached to Hermosa so you find moving them together easier by just leading mum.

I went through the same throught processes you’re going through CI. Should i keep them, see how it goes? Sell? I was overwhelmed too, and i knew foal was due….so can appreciate your ballooned sense of overwhelment. I had facility issue, at home, but still - do appreciate the added stress of not having the right setting to bring up a foal with less stress.
I had other major life stuff occurring too like trying to build a home and get water/electric for myself, losing my business, etc etc let alone dealing with a mum and foal - so i dedicated myself to them, ignored my needs, and burnt myself out! 
I should have sold, but the market was dire at the time. However, i went with the flow of it, and ended up doing a lot i didnt want to, that in itself taught me lots about life generally….so i dont regret my stupid decisions as they all have something to teach. Yet i crashed and burned, i thought at the time i had no choice, but i did. However, i recovered, not pheonix-like…more limp leprechaun!….and despite making stupid decisions, its been a ride and valuable experience/memories nonetheless.

You do have time to just let them be mum and foal while you mull everything over for a few weeks. If the feeling of ‘no, this really isnt what im up for‘ keeps dominating you, moreso than the feeling of ‘i didnt choose this, but its exciting and im up for it!’ …listen to what predominates and make whatever decisions based on that inner voice.


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## paddy555 (16 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			In fairness to YO, I don't think she expects them to go into the herd now, and I hope she's realistic enough to see that it will take some time to get a headcollar on Caso, much less move him anywhere. But she wants them there eventually. Is this something that can safely be done when the foal is a few months old (YO tells me it is), or should it never, ever happen?
		
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I don't think anyone can answer that question. If this was  an old baggage of a mare that bit first and followed it up with her feet if there was trouble then she could protect the foal and stand up for herself. 
Can Hermosa? she doesn't sound like the strongest mare. Can she look after herself in those circumstances let alone a foal? Do I remember she had problems with a herd at your old yard (can't remember the details) Is she simply going to find the endless day to day of protecting Caso  very stressful. Are you going to be able to safely go into the herd and lead them both out if you want to work on her. I don't know what sort of herd it is but if there are geldings and she comes into season will there be problems. Only you on the ground can balance the pros and cons of the situation. 
At some stage Caso is going to have to be weaned. How are you going to do that? are you able to at your current yard? 

It's a risk I wouldn't take unless I knew everything about the horses and where there was going to be trouble. Apart from just being lovely Caso is a valuable foal and so is Hermosa. It won't take much for one injury to ruin that. 

You sound more resistant  now to selling them both. That is good as it suggests you really want to keep them for the moment. 
Can you find a stud to take them even if it is a bit further to drive and you can't see them as often? If you could then they could wean Caso at around 6 months and you could remove Hermosa and either sell her or take her to her permanent adult riding home. Caso could either be sold or stay on for a year at grass livery with a herd. They will be able to cope with slightly less than well handled 3yo's and should have  the facilities to cope with vets etc.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (16 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			In fairness to YO, I don't think she expects them to go into the herd now, and I hope she's realistic enough to see that it will take some time to get a headcollar on Caso, much less move him anywhere. But she wants them there eventually. Is this something that can safely be done when the foal is a few months old (YO tells me it is), or should it never, ever happen?
		
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CI, when foal is a few months old, you can be looking to start weaning if all is going well. (This depends on what the 'few months' actually means tho!).
But no, I would never ever lead a foal down a road except in most extenuating circumstances. Enclosed transport only.

I'm another that would advise mare and foal to stay where they are at present,  just a pair, leave much handling him for another week or 2 with just scratching and 'being' there.
I've usually haltered mine between 2 and 15 days, depending on how foal proud mum is, and how shy foal can be.
I never put on a lead rope to a foal to start with, just a tea towel wrapped round neck and held in one hand and a guiding hand on rump.
Sit back, let them settle, introduce yourself and DH over the next week or so.
It WILL work out, honestly x


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## EventingMum (16 June 2021)

I understand this is very hard and is causing you stress which isn't pleasant. From an outsider's perspective, it seems like there are several issues, all of which combined are making things much worse for you.

Firstly, Hermosa wasn't as well handled as you had hoped, you were working on this then discovered she was in foal. In your shoes I would continue handling her but forget about any further "training", If she is happy to have a headcollar on and a brush over, for now that's good. You did mention her feet needing attention so I would quietly work away with handling her legs. Anything else can wait until Caso is weaned.

I personally like to handle my foals gently from early on but appreciate this may not be easy in a field.  Mine tended to come in to a big stable for a short time and the foals generally become quite inquisitive when I was brushing the mares and so it was never a big deal to give them a little scratch or brush too, building up to touching them all over and picking up feet at a few weeks old. They also got introduced to wearing a foal slip for a short period early on and being lead with an arm around the quarters. I never attach a lead rope to the foal slip until they are a good bit older, I just loop the rope through it so if they did pull away I hold one end and the lead rope becomes free and isn't left trailing.

The other horse in the field probably isn't helping but equally, you can't demand it be removed as it's not your yard and the YO has had to come to terms with the situation thrust upon her in the same way you have. I would seriously look at any studs that might have livery available for a mare and foal, that way hopefully, you could get knowledgeable support and advice and it might make the weaning process less stressful for you too. It doesn't have to be a long term livery yard for you so even if it's a bit further away it may only need to be until after weaning. Obviously, the travelling is a concern for you but perhaps the stud or an experienced transporter would be able to help in that respect.

I honestly think you have raised a lot of questions as to whether you want to keep Hermosa long term. she wasn't what you thought you were buying initially in terms of her handling etc and then to be in foal was the last thing you expected. This wasn't what you expected and has caused you so much stress and worry. Yes, she's gorgeous but is that enough to make you want to keep her? You are missing riding and will have to wait a good while until she is ready to do what you want to. You say you might regret selling her but if it allowed you to purchase a horse that you could enjoy riding and become fully invested in it would take so much stress away and give you much more pleasure plus you could return to your old yard. I do wonder if keeping her is what you think is the right thing to do rather than what you really want to do?  I'm sure she would be relatively easy to sell with Caso at foot and you could restart with a clean slate. The important thing is not to think you have failed in any way, this situation wasn't what you signed up for and you are doing your best but if it's going to continue causing you ongoing stress it's going to take away the joy of horse ownership for you for the foreseeable future so I would question whether this is what you want.


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## Slightlyconfused (16 June 2021)

milliepops said:



			My yo just picked up her almost unhandled yearling from stud and manhandled it onto the lorry with a calm experienced horse to bring home.

My now-3yo was sedated to travel to me, as he had to get on a transporter lorry at a set time. I'm just now getting round to teaching him how to load as he has no idea what happened.

It can be done. Are you really feeling like you want an "out" because I think if you advertised as a young mare not lorry trained I doubt it was be off-putting to the right people.
		
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My sisters youngster when he was 18 months old was sedated, blindfolded with a pair of jeans and reversed into a trailer to travel home. 
He had never been loaded, only lightly handled and refused to get on the lorry and then trailer. 
Irish vet came out who comes from a breeding family and suggested the above as it's what they to to tricky loaders, though not with a pair of jeans. 


It will come.


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## paddy555 (16 June 2021)

CI as the problem is accommodation can you renegotiate the terms of your livery. Can you get sole use of a field (however small ) for say 5 months. Obviously this will inconvenience the YO but if you make it financially worth their while could they consider it. Problem would then be solved for the time being.


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## Caol Ila (16 June 2021)

It would. Everything would be less stressful if I knew (a) my horses would be kept safe (the TB is fine, for the most part... I'm watching them on my camera and they generally act like a little family...If I'm not doing anything stupid, he respectfully keeps to whatever distance Hermosa allows. I think if they stayed with him, we would be alright, but I have many, many doubts about the herd of seven ten minutes up the road...) and (b) they would not have to move in October due to winter turn-out faff. My horse has moved three times since the beginning of March. I feel like it's super unfair on her to move again, and then move yet again a few months later. Obviously neither me nor YO expected this or wanted this, but ultimately it's the horse who has the sh1ttest time.


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## Millie-Rose (16 June 2021)

milliepops said:



			My *yearling* leads well, knows me inside out and likes doing things that involve learning and I STILL haven't gone out of the field gate with her in case I lose her  the reason we're doing lorry training now is so I can move fields, to a field we could walk to across the village... not going to take that chance. I agree that trying to lead a green mare with foal toddling around up a road is setting yourself up for potential disaster.  Hopefully the YO will agree to pop the other horse back and leave your 2 in peace with the sheep.
		
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Same here mine is a week or so older than Hera. Due to some vet issues she's had a lot of stable time/ handling. I have to cross a small lane between her stable and field and she's been in a lorry by herself on a long journey to Rossdales and dealt with that fine including leading across a strange yard and into a pretty unwelcoming  stable but I still wouldn't want to try and lead her any distance on a public road even with her calm companion just in case!


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## tristar (16 June 2021)

Amymay said:



			CI.  DO NOT LET YO PRESSURE YOU IN PUTTING THEM OUT WITH THE HERD!
		
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this in buckets


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## Caol Ila (16 June 2021)

OH went to yard today on his own. He said Hermosa walked straight up to him for treat/headcollar. He took it on and off a few times. He noted that she's become very bonded to the old TB. Said they were grooming each other at one point. 

If she can stay put and YO keeps her in her little family with son and old TB until Caso is weaned, then we'll be alright. If she demands major horse reshuffles, then it's not so good.


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## Sandstone1 (16 June 2021)

Lovely photo.


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## hobo (16 June 2021)

Beautiful picture and you sound much more positive OH seems to have the magic touch which is good.


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## Caol Ila (17 June 2021)

Had a long chat with OH today about the swings and roundabouts of everything. The potential instability of Hermosa's living situation is pants. Very pants. The delay on our training is not ideal but not terrible, given her age. OH thinks she's fantastic.

But I admitted that when things are going well with Hermosa -- between the moves and the yard management fails and the raging new mom hormones -- they are awesome. I love how light she is. I love how smart she is. I love how once she learns a cue, you can breathe or flick a finger and she does the thing. I love how it feels like driving a Ferrari (having never driven one, but taking a guess based on watching Top Gear). And she's got a sweeeeeeet trot and canter.  At this second, I want a Toyota to potter around the park, but I really, really don't want to lose the Ferrari. I can keep two. That was always the plan because I thought Gypsum would rally and hang in there for some time when I bought Hermosa. So I'm looking out for my Toyota. But I really like the Ferrari.


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## Fraggle2 (17 June 2021)

Sounds like you have an idea (not going to say plan as they always go wrong) going forward and that your starting to take the pressure off of yourself. Plus don't think your oh is going to let Hermosa go anywhere 😉


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## littleshetland (17 June 2021)

Hermosa is a PRE, and I'd l just thought I'd chuck in my thoughts about PRE's at this point.  They look like Ferraris, but given the right handling and work (which I'm sure you're capable of) they can be just like trusty old Toyotas.  Yes, they can be 'hot' but not necessarily in a negative way, they're clever and brave too......just saying.


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## windand rain (17 June 2021)

I am pleased you want to keep your ferrari and perhaps having a ridden horse will take your mind off Hermosa she is beautiful, will be a wonderful made horse once her training is over, as she has presence and the movement you want. I would play it by ear about the foal too you may well want to keep him too once you don't see it all as a gigantic brick wall to climb. It hasn't been an ideal start but you need to see it as a very small blip in 25 years of caring for her whats a few months with so much goodness ahead


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## tristar (17 June 2021)

i wish we could wave a wand and make is all easier, the uncertainty of the situation is stealing the joy of the moment, at least you did not have months of waiting for the birth and its over, the worst bit is done, and you have a lovely healthy baby, a famous vet i once knew thought it was a good idea to let a young mare have a foal, and i`ve always handled my foals from birth, full on the works, every time you put our hands on that foal he will know your smell and it will bring trust between you, loads of handling get a scratchy brush on that rump and you will have a friend for life, touching, restraining leading, i have never let my foals become wild, the foal slips with a short tag for catching and leading are a great thing

lucky the oh is so on board, my fusions are anywhere between old dobbin and winged unicorns according to how i feed them, ride them,so you will surely have both in one horse, someday and sooner than you think, your biggest problem is the yard uncertainty and all the stresses of not being able to control all decisions around management, that would do in anyone`s head hope it sorts itself out soon.


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## fidleyspromise (17 June 2021)

Wow, what a roller coaster for you. Hermosa and Caso are lovely. I know how deadlines feel and the pressure is immense - I only had a feral 3yr old to deal with that needed to be moved from quarantine to my other mares paddock about a minutes walk away. That minute felt unachievable with a mare that had never been led. 
My method teaching her was likely unorthodox and I dare say lots would look down on me for it but I got there. (She's now 14). There have been lots of ups and downs, tears and laughter but I wouldn't change our time together.

Relax and spend your time with your babies. You will be OK. They look like a lovely little family.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 June 2021)

CI for what it's worth I think you are coping incredibly well with all that's been thrown at you. Once you are more relaxed I'm sure that Caso will be more comfortable allowing you near....you know what horses are like for picking up on moods etc...even itty bitty foals..!!
I'd sooner deal with a slightly under handled foal than a bratty over handled one any day of the week.


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## maya2008 (17 June 2021)

That sounds like a great plan! It takes the pressure off Hermosa and you.


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## Caol Ila (18 June 2021)

After a few days of being chilled with us approaching her and giving her a bit of fuss, she’s spooky as a spooky thing today. It was tricky to get near her, which I managed. She was also spooking at tractors, someone riding in the arena, and anything else she could find. Foal wasn’t helping. He thought spooking at everything was today’s agenda, and when he spooked and ran off, she ran after him. Mom and son were winding each other up. Old TB was standing around like, you weirdos.

Who is this horse and what happened to the one that nonchalantly strolled past tractors, pigs, etc.? Will I get that one back in six months? Could it be a foal heat? Gypsum used to get a personality transplant when she was in season.

Once she let me near, I gave her some scritches and a treat and then left them to it. Is that right?


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## Errin Paddywack (18 June 2021)

Foal heat is usually about 5 days after birth, does that fit?  Sounds very much like hormones.


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## Roxylola (18 June 2021)

I think your approach is right, to go say hi then leave them to it for sure. She'll come round and settle again soon enough


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## meleeka (18 June 2021)

What’s your weather like?  Mine have gone a bit loopy because of the rain.


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## CanteringCarrot (18 June 2021)

Could be foal heat, could just be a Spanish horse 🤣 

Did you have a weather change? Mine can also be a bit odd when the weather changes.


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## Caol Ila (18 June 2021)

It’s been windy since forever.

Increasingly tempted to contact her breeder. Send a message with a photo saying “This happened. I would really to find out who the sire is so he can have a full BAPSH fusion passport. BAPSH knows about this, and they’ll be in touch about what they need off your colts.”

What do you guys reckon?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (18 June 2021)

CI, yes they do have their moments and you were wise to ignore it but just go in at the end to scratch. She will come back, honestly x

I agree its worth writing or emailing them now, almost exactly as you have put above., but no photo, just start with:
Hi, I was rather surprised to find my 3yr old filly was in foal. She has produced a lovely colt.
Please advise me as to who the sire is so my colt can have a full BAPSH fusion passport. BAPSH knows about this, and they’ll be in touch about what they need off your colts.

Dont go via text or messenger etc.


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## FlyingCircus (18 June 2021)

I think the message might be a bit confrontational for someone you want to comply with what you're asking (even though it is well deserved!).

I'd go with something like:
Hi x. We have recently had a very big surprise - Hermosa was in foal! I'm keen to register him as full fushion. Would you be able to let me know which colts could have done the deed and work with BAPSH (who will be in contact), to help me get him registered.

Doesn't matter if she claims he is hers, or that you need to pay extra or whatever. She doesn't have a leg to stand on, so the nicely nicely approach is more likely to get you what you want than if you go in all guns blazing. If she feels put upon/like she has lost out, she is less inclined to be helpful.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (18 June 2021)

FlyingCircus said:



			I think the message might be a bit confrontational for someone you want to comply with what you're asking (even though it is well deserved!).

I'd go with something like:
Hi x. We have recently had a very big surprise - Hermosa was in foal! I'm keen to register him as full fushion. Would you be able to let me know which colts could have done the deed and work with BAPSH (who will be in contact), to help me get him registered.

Doesn't matter if she claims he is hers, or that you need to pay extra or whatever. She doesn't have a leg to stand on, so the nicely nicely approach is more likely to get you what you want than if you go in all guns blazing. If she feels put upon/like she has lost out, she is less inclined to be helpful.
		
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Yes, agreed, I'm just feeling v grr this evening (gawd help trolls later!)


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## Caol Ila (18 June 2021)

Would you add dates? It’s not like I knew about this pregnancy for the last two months and didn’t contact her.

I’ve been advised by OH that the blunt American approach isn’t always ideal when you want British people to do things.


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## maya2008 (18 June 2021)

My TB (retired, should know better) was running around all over the place and setting the others off today. No apparent reason…so maybe weather?


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## ycbm (18 June 2021)

I get that you are angry and upset CI, but wasn't the stud completely up front about her having run with colts last year?  I think that needs softening up a lot, if that's correct. 
.


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## Sandstone1 (18 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Would you add dates? It’s not like I knew about this pregnancy for the last two months and didn’t contact her.

I’ve been advised by OH that the blunt American approach isn’t always ideal when you want British people to do things.
		
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A more polite approach will get you further,  also if you were aware she was with colts last year you must have known there was at least a small chance she could be in foal?    Its nature after all,  colts will be colts and even if it was her sire that got her its what stallions do!
I hope it all turns out ok for you but personally I wouldnt be laying down the law to her breeder.


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## canteron (18 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Had a long chat with OH today about the swings and roundabouts of everything. The potential instability of Hermosa's living situation is pants. Very pants. The delay on our training is not ideal but not terrible, given her age. OH thinks she's fantastic.

But I admitted that when things are going well with Hermosa -- between the moves and the yard management fails and the raging new mom hormones -- they are awesome. I love how light she is. I love how smart she is. I love how once she learns a cue, you can breathe or flick a finger and she does the thing. I love how it feels like driving a Ferrari (having never driven one, but taking a guess based on watching Top Gear). And she's got a sweeeeeeet trot and canter.  At this second, I want a Toyota to potter around the park, but I really, really don't want to lose the Ferrari. I can keep two. That was always the plan because I thought Gypsum would rally and hang in there for some time when I bought Hermosa. So I'm looking out for my Toyota. But I really like the Ferrari.
		
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Hi, what a traumatic few months you have been through.

Just a (heretical) thought, could you save your pennies on a second horse and just send Hermosa somewhere wonderful to be trained, where you could be trained alongside her and then maybe in a year or so you would have the amazing 'sports Toyota' horse you want (I know that the foal is going to hinder your plans a bit.)

There is a lady, not so far away from me, but miles from you, at, at Pine Lodge School of Classical Equitation who knows everybody, everywhere in the PRE world!!  Her daughter, Holly, is one of the top Equitation riders and they have lots of contacts all over the world.  On a good day, she is really lovely and happy to share her knowledge and maybe worth a tentative contact to see if she knows any little private yards in your part of the world who would be an option!!!  They now have closed the riding school, so I think fb is the best contact.

Worth a go while you have the time.


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## Caol Ila (18 June 2021)

No, I wasn’t told that she was out with ungelded colts. I figured it out after she started looking pregnant.

I did, however, know she was with her sire but the breeder seemed to know her stuff and be on the ball, and I was an idiot and didn’t think about it.


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## ycbm (18 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			No, I wasn’t told that she was out with ungelded colts. I figured it out after she started looking pregnant.

I did, however, know she was with her sire but the breeder seemed to know her stuff and be on the ball, and I was an idiot and didn’t think about it.
		
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To be honest I don't think that makes much difference to how you should approach the dealer.  They were up front about Hermosa running with a fertile male last year.  It was a nasty unwelcome surprise to you but I doubt it will be any shock at all to them.  
.


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## FlyingCircus (18 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Would you add dates? It’s not like I knew about this pregnancy for the last two months and didn’t contact her.

I’ve been advised by OH that the blunt American approach isn’t always ideal when you want British people to do things.
		
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Add dates if you feel that will help. Can say that you found out on x and he was here by y! Imagine that..! 

I suspect she may feel some sort of way about this happening. Whether that is guilt or entitlement, it is best to remain as neutral as possible so you don't lead her to feel like she has been put in an arse-covering position.


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## LadyGascoyne (18 June 2021)

I think Spanish horses are generally just very sensitive. 

I’m not an expert but have worked with them in Spain and now have one here. My experience is they are best in work and, when they are focused and have a job, that sensitivity translates to a beautiful riding experience. I think the key is not to be reactive to their sensitivity, and not to take it personally. You’re not doing anything to upset her but I think they just pick up on a lot more than other horses do - or at least they react to those things a bit more. 

In terms of your letter to the breeders, I’d be friendly and polite and I would give as little information as possible right now. 

Stick to the facts and the question; the mare foaled, it was unexpected, can you have some assistance in identifying the sire. 

Nothing in there that could give away your feelings on the matter, or any further or related thoughts about the situation. And, crucially, nothing in there that could be used against you at any point or lead the breeder to behave defensively.

That gives you the ability to push the conversation in any direction that you choose once you have the response.


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## Caol Ila (18 June 2021)

I’ve found a classical trainer just up the road. Managed to have one lesson before sh1t met fan. She was very good but doesn’t have her own facility. She comes to you. I certainly couldn’t find any private yards like that when I had to move her in March.

If Hermosa has to go anywhere, it will be to a stud or somewhere they can professionally deal with her and foal.


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## D66 (18 June 2021)

If you annoy the breeder you’ll likely get nothing so keep it low key and ask for her assistance.  No blame, no pack drill.
From her point of view if H hadn’t have been sold the foal would have paid for her keep over the winter.


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## CanteringCarrot (18 June 2021)

LadyGascoyne said:



			I think Spanish horses are generally just very sensitive.

I’m not an expert but have worked with them in Spain and now have one here. My experience is they are best in work and, when they are focused and have a job, that sensitivity translates to a beautiful riding experience. I think the key is not to be reactive to their sensitivity, and not to take it personally. You’re not doing anything to upset her but I think they just pick up on a lot more than other horses do - or at least they react to those things a bit more.

In terms of your letter to the breeders, I’d be friendly and polite and I would give as little information as possible right now.

Stick to the facts and the question; the mare foaled, it was unexpected, can you have some assistance in identifying the sire.

Nothing in there that could give away your feelings on the matter, or any further or related thoughts about the situation. And, crucially, nothing in there that could be used against you at any point or lead the breeder to behave defensively.

That gives you the ability to push the conversation in any direction that you choose once you have the response.
		
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Yes re the Spanish horses. I roll my eyes and sometimes laugh. It's ridiculous the things mine comes up with. Fine with me flapping around a bedding bag today, but totally offended by a brush on the ground. He's 9 🤷‍♀️ he's got a lot of jokes, but still the best horse I've ever had.

Just ignore it, basically. They can be drama queens. 

If they are spooking and acting a fool together, I'd just be like, right, I'll be back later when you all sort yourselves out 😅 while training is important, you've got to have a sense of humor. 

Mine is 9, so I do tell him "stop" and he pulls himself together, but Hermosa is young, and there is plenty of time to choose your battles. Sounds like you ended on a good note today nonetheless.


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## hobo (18 June 2021)

I would not get to hung up on how to register him as he is what he is and I am guessing he will be gelded in time. Maybe if he had been a filly yes it would be more of interest to find out its true parentage. You can get a passport without informing the previous owner who you seem cross with so why upset yourself


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## CanteringCarrot (19 June 2021)

hobo said:



			I would not get to hung up on how to register him as he is what he is and I am guessing he will be gelded in time. Maybe if he had been a filly yes it would be more of interest to find out its true parentage. You can get a passport without informing the previous owner who you seem cross with so why upset yourself
		
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I sort of thought this myself.

I'm not sure of the benefits of registering a gelding. Are there benefits when competing (certain classes)?

I am not sure that this would do a lot of favors for the horse in terms of finding the best home, or selling value, although CI could keep him and if not has someone already interested. If he's a good horse, he's a good horse, a gelding, and a horse who is not eligible for ANCCE anyway (which IMO holds more value and weight), so I'm not sure that documenting his paternal lineage will be incredibly useful or worth it. I could be wrong and missed something though.

If the breeder says, yeah sure, and is easy to work with, then I'd be like, sure why not, but in this case, could be more hassle and drama then it's worth.

However, if CI thinks it's worth a shot, then she should try it. Just be ready to brush off any weirdness from the breeder.


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## shortstuff99 (19 June 2021)

If the future owner or CI wants to do showing or the BD associated champs then he will need to be BAPSH registered. Also registered PRE fusions can also do the MCI UK champs and the PRE fusion performance awards. 

I would say it would definitely be worth doing and would increase his value significantly.


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## Trouper (19 June 2021)

I really don't think it matters what the breed is when it comes to handling a young mare with a new foal (or any other horse at any other time tbh).  Whether it is hormones, the weather, noisy neighbours - you just need to be the same - calm, relaxed and consistent with them.    Eventually that will take the steam out of any situation.

As regards approaching the breeder - write it as if you have a smile on your face at the lovely surprise Hermosa has given you ().  It doesn't matter what you are really thinking, just as long as it gets you the result you want - her cooperation.  If she gets possessive about the foal, then time enough to change your approach later.


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## CanteringCarrot (19 June 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			If the future owner or CI wants to do showing or the BD associated champs then he will need to be BAPSH registered. Also registered PRE fusions can also do the MCI UK champs and the PRE fusion performance awards.

I would say it would definitely be worth doing and would increase his value significantly.
		
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This is the exact answer I was looking for. I didn't know all of this. Thanks for the info. Gives the owner (whoever that may be) more options for competition, so I can see that as a benefit.


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## Horse2018 (19 June 2021)

Wow that’s crazy I nearly bought a horse that was pregnant before thankfully someone told me before I bought it. Unfortunately your yard owner doesn’t sound to happy with you having a foal. There is no shame in selling a horse and the foal  if you’re not able to manage.


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## KTPsurrey (19 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			When it rains, it pours. Nothing like putting your best friend to sleep, then going to see your (hopefully) new friend and feeling suspicious that they've been knocked up.

Is there any chance this horse could be pregnant, or is she just enjoying the grass too much? I'm about to make a panicked phone call to the vet tomorrow.
		
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I literally have the same issue! Calling vet on Monday. Two escaped colts last summer and one covered her. Very stressful but she has been in season loads so not 100% sure. Good luck


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## little_critter (20 June 2021)

meleeka said:



			What’s your weather like?  Mine have gone a bit loopy because of the rain.
		
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Same here. Several people at my yard have commented that their horses have turned into fruitloops (mine included). I’ve also have a stuffy head (I very rarely get headaches) so we suspect a change in the weather.


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## hollyandivy123 (20 June 2021)

when it rains the grass grows quicker, which reduces the amount of magnesium in their diet. this in turn changes how neurone transmitters work, hence some horses whose diet is low in magnesium can become spooky etc, with mares which are feeding they are actually loosing a lot of magnesium through the milk, talk to your vet maybe a basic Magnesium supplement might help


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## Caol Ila (21 June 2021)

I've been giving Hermosa the homeopathic stuff I used to give Gypsum when she went into season, which reliably made the latter less batsh1t (*don't *question it....I'm not). Hermosa has de-fruitlooped a bit and has resumed being amenable towards us playing with her and the baby. Caso is becoming ballsier. We can scritch his bum and work our way along his topline, along his mane. He's a bouncy wee thing, and he's increasingly curious about the weird two-legged things that come into the field every day.

Got Hermosa's headcollar on and off a couple times without faff. Caso is getting bolder, but Hermosa is still an anxious mum. When he runs off, she trots after him. While I had the headcollar on, he bounced away, and I whipped headcollar off before she noticed, and then she ran after him. It seems pointlessly messy to even think about holding her when she wants to chase her baby. That obviously doesn't work for anyone.

But maybe this will be the making of this mare. She's the Queen Bee in her little herd, and she bosses Caso and Old TB around. Made Old TB move off yesterday from 'her' humans. Quite a change from being a wilting lily. Her mum was bottom of the herd, and I've been told that mum was bullied by the other broodmares. So more confidence cannae be a bad thing.

Here are pictures I took today, for those of you saddened by lack of photos.


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## Caol Ila (21 June 2021)

KTPsurrey said:



			I literally have the same issue! Calling vet on Monday. Two escaped colts last summer and one covered her. Very stressful but she has been in season loads so not 100% sure. Good luck
		
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Yeah. My horse turned out to be in foal. Very, very in foal. Now, I have a foal. See above thread.

(as an aside, I totally thought my mare was in season a few weeks beforehand, because she was being tricky to catch, planting, acting uncharacteristically difficult. I've only had her since March, so I didn't know what 'normal' heat behaviour was for her, but my old mare used to lose her mind completely, so I was prepared for anything. She wasn't in season. Obviously. In hindsight, the 'tricky' behaviour was probably due to late-term pregnancy hormones and the baby kicking around).


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## Red-1 (21 June 2021)

They are both so beautiful. I know you are not feeling particularly lucky about all this at the moment, but I do think that you are lucky. Even if you decide to sell.


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## Fluffypiglet (21 June 2021)

Hermosa is a very beautiful horse and obviously Caso is gorgeous. Glad that they are both starting to settle and get used to you and their world. Thank you for the update and photos 😊


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## Trouper (21 June 2021)

Thanks for the photos.  Hermosa does look quite relaxed in her eye so hopefully things will settle into a routine soon.  Not sure this flip-flopping weather is helping anyone at the moment - certainly not my arthritis  - and even the plants in the garden are looking confused!!


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## paddy555 (21 June 2021)

Red-1 said:



			They are both so beautiful. I know you are not feeling particularly lucky about all this at the moment, but I do think that you are lucky. Even if you decide to sell.
		
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I think you are beyond lucky. No way could I ever sell either of them especially Caso. It is many people's dream to breed (which you have in a way) their own foal and to rear it, break it and make their own riding horse right the start.


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## Tarragon (21 June 2021)

I love that first photo! A lovely group. Hermosa has a very noble look about her.


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## shortstuff99 (21 June 2021)

He is so little and cute 🥰


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## littleshetland (21 June 2021)

They're gorgeous!


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## splashgirl45 (21 June 2021)

they are both beautiful,  you sound a little calmer now and more settled about the whole thing.  losing Gypsum will have made your mind stressed,  i have just lost one of my dogs and i cant believe what a state i am in, she was 15 so i should have been prepared but i think its still a shock and it takes time for your mind to settle.  you then had the added shock of a foal which you didnt want so your mind has taken a second hit...hope all goes smoothly


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## Caol Ila (21 June 2021)

He is very cute, and my friend, the lass with the blue hair in the photo, is keen to buy him.

I just don't want to raise two babies. If Hermosa were an older, established riding horse, then it would be totally different and I'd be far more tempted to keep him. But by the time she is established, it will be time to start bringing him on. I think I'll want a nice, trained horse (or two) to play with, show, and ride for a while and not feel like I'm breaking in babies all the time. 

Now that I know she's a good mum, very fertile, and has a functional uterus, I can breed her again for myself, to a stallion of my choosing, some years down the line.


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## splashgirl45 (21 June 2021)

would be lovely if your friend does buy him as you can see how he progresses without the responsibility...


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## milliepops (21 June 2021)

that's fair, the reason i was so happy to get a rising 3yo to wean my foal with was to avoid having 2 to back at the same time. a few years between them is more manageable. and as you say not everyone would even want that.


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## Caol Ila (21 June 2021)

I think Hermosa could be very talented, and I want to be able to focus on developing her. Happy Hacker friend, who I'm currently searching for now, can be sold, shared, or continue to be Happy Hacker friend. That's quite different than starting a new youngster!


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## maya2008 (21 June 2021)

At least Caso is saleable and you have a buyer lined up!


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## Apercrumbie (21 June 2021)

I know all the comments on here saying "keep him, keep him" mean well, but I'm not sure that it's super helpful for us to be saying that at this point. What is important is that Hermosa and Caso continue to do well and that CI feels better, more in control of the situation and can even *whispers* enjoy it at some point. What will be, will be.


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## KTPsurrey (22 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Yeah. My horse turned out to be in foal. Very, very in foal. Now, I have a foal. See above thread.

(as an aside, I totally thought my mare was in season a few weeks beforehand, because she was being tricky to catch, planting, acting uncharacteristically difficult. I've only had her since March, so I didn't know what 'normal' heat behaviour was for her, but my old mare used to lose her mind completely, so I was prepared for anything. She wasn't in season. Obviously. In hindsight, the 'tricky' behaviour was probably due to late-term pregnancy hormones and the baby kicking around).
		
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Oh how gorgeous though❤️. I have the vet on Thursday. Did her bagging up get bigger and smaller? Depending on how much exercise she had? Today I was cleaning her teats and one squirted at me so now I’m really worried 😬


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## katastrophykat (23 June 2021)

Would your friend have facilities to buy Caso now and take Hermosa with him now until weaned?


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## Fjord (23 June 2021)

They are both so beautiful. I really hope you can get some time to just enjoy them for a while, with no stress. If your friend (l love her hair!) buys Caso that would be perfect.


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## Caol Ila (23 June 2021)

KTPsurrey said:



			Oh how gorgeous though❤️. I have the vet on Thursday. Did her bagging up get bigger and smaller? Depending on how much exercise she had? Today I was cleaning her teats and one squirted at me so now I’m really worried 😬
		
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It got bigger. And bigger. About five minutes before the vet arrived, YO squirted some milk out of her teat (the horse's, that is). Vet did the same and was like, yeah, that's pregnant. I asked if there was any possible chance that something other than pregnancy could cause the horse to bag up and produce milk. The vet said maybe in an old broodmare who's had lots of foals, but not a young maiden.



katastrophykat said:



			Would your friend have facilities to buy Caso now and take Hermosa with him now until weaned?
		
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My friend just moved her horse to Hermosa's yard. So, not really, but that's two liveries who want those two horses to stay put.


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## KTPsurrey (23 June 2021)

Oh ok thanks, will find out tomorrow I guess 😬


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## IveRunOutOfNamesToThinkOf (24 June 2021)

He’s gorgeous, if your friend takes him then that sounds a good outcome!  I bet part of you is a little tempted to keep though!


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## Caol Ila (25 June 2021)

Woot! Coming out of her foal heat seems to be reinstalling Hermosa's brain. Approached her today without faff and managed to stroke and scritch Caso. Even got an arm gently around his chest, and he didn't mind. I've been showing him the foal headcollar. Today, he nibbled at it and tugged at it. Keep that up, buddy, and you'll have to wear it.

She turned 3 yesterday. When they ran the Belmont a couple weeks ago, I showed her the video on YouTube and explained that these 3-year olds hadn't got pregnant and dropped out of school. She flicked her mane at me and walked away.


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## Caol Ila (25 June 2021)

KTPsurrey said:



			Oh ok thanks, will find out tomorrow I guess 😬
		
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How did your vet visit go?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Woot! Coming out of her foal heat seems to be reinstalling Hermosa's brain. Approached her today without faff and managed to stroke and scritch Caso. Even got an arm gently around his chest, and he didn't mind. I've been showing him the foal headcollar. Today, he nibbled at it and tugged at it. Keep that up, buddy, and you'll have to wear it.

She turned 3 yesterday. When they ran the Belmont a couple weeks ago, I showed her the video on YouTube and explained that these 3-year olds hadn't got pregnant and dropped out of school. She flicked her mane at me and walked away.

View attachment 74619
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Am pleased for you that she's back to her previous self x
(I did mention it at day 2 as did others,  so happy she's back in the brain x)


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## chaps89 (26 June 2021)

You're sounding much more relaxed now, I'm glad she's coming round again.


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## Abi90 (26 June 2021)

He’s lovely CI! He also makes me realise how massive my colt is!


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## Caol Ila (29 June 2021)

YO has plan A and plan B for the winter, depending on how handle-able the horses are. So we don't have to move. Fantastic. Caso is getting braver and has discovered that humans can scratch him. Hermosa thinks she never needs to wear a headcollar again and trots off when you threaten to put one on. 

I'm looking at two more ridden horses this week. One is an 8-year old Standardbred, which looks very sweet and pleasant on the videos I've seen. The other is a Highland from the Dallas estate of unknown age. I've been told he's 10ish, and his current owner got him unhandled in 2018. He's very pretty and his ground manners are excellent, but I didn't get the chance to ride at first viewing, so I'm going back on Thursday to do that. I've since read that the Dallas horses were rounded up in 2011 so I'm trying to figure out how the numbers work. Are there still horses on the estate and subsequent (but not publicised) round ups? Does anyone know?


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## Tarragon (29 June 2021)

Did you decide to tell the stud of your surprise delivery?


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## Goldenstar (29 June 2021)

Those photos are lovely .
Can you catch her and bring her into a stable now and again is that possible ?


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## HBB (29 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			I've since read that the Dallas horses were rounded up in 2011 so I'm trying to figure out how the numbers work. Are there still horses on the estate and subsequent (but not publicised) round ups? Does anyone know?
		
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I don't think there are any Auchness highland ponies left on the farm at Dallas, they were all rounded up as the elderly breeder couldn't cope any more. Have you see the World Horse Welfare video of them being rounded up?


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## katastrophykat (29 June 2021)

The Dallas ponies were rounded up and gelded, but not rehomed at that time, I’ve just been looking it all up as a friend has an Auchness pony, they were sold on after the round up, I’d assume in dribs and drabs- there’s limited market for feral unhandled part breds- my friends is a driving pony, I’ve both ridden and driven him, he’s not the easiest by any stretch but he’s competed driven and hacks out in town traffic. There is info on them through the Dallas Ponies Forever page on fb.


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## ester (29 June 2021)

What a lovely vid


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## Caol Ila (29 June 2021)

Aye, I watched the video. Where would the horse have gone after 2011? Trying to figure out a likely timeline that leaves him at 10 ish and not like 17. I’m keeping an open mind about him but if he feels like too much of a project or is a lot older than ten, I’d pass. 

I emailed Hermosa’s breeder today. Will see what happens.


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## HBB (29 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Aye, I watched the video. Where would the horse have gone after 2011? Trying to figure out a likely timeline that leaves him at 10 ish and not like 17. I’m keeping an open mind about him but if he feels like too much of a project or is a lot older than ten, I’d pass.

I emailed Hermosa’s breeder today. Will see what happens.
		
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He could've been one of the foals at foot or from one of the pregnant mares? That might work with your timeline of him being 10ish?
@Dry Rot  would have have been the best person to help you out regarding info but I haven't see him on here for a while, he is on the Dallas Ponies Forever FB page, you could ask on there? I know many people helped in the roundup and ponies were dispersed all over the place due to the large numbers involved.


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## katastrophykat (29 June 2021)

HBB said:



			He could've been one of the foals at foot or from one of the pregnant mares? That might work with your timeline of him being 10ish?
@Dry Rot  would have have been the best person to help you out regarding info but I haven't see him on here for a while, he is on the Dallas Ponies Forever FB page, you could ask on there? I know many people helped in the roundup and ponies were dispersed all over the place due to the large numbers involved.
		
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Yes- the one I know is in Durham now. Was bought as a Highland x Connie.


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## Caol Ila (29 June 2021)

This chap looks mostly Highland and is built like a brick sh1thouse. I wondered if he was one of the foals but why (and where) would someone leave him unhandled until his current owner got him in 2018? 

I miss Dry Rot. I always liked his posts, and I would have totally bought one of his horses.


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## HBB (29 June 2021)

It is an odd one but I do know of some people that had great intentions were left completely out of their depth with the ponies they took on, not all of ponies went to WHW to be handled, broken, rehomed etc

I looked at @Dry Rot profile and he still comes on here but not posting anything, maybe drop him a PM?


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## Horse2018 (29 June 2021)

He is 10 because my mare was born in 2009 and she is 12 years old.


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## Caol Ila (29 June 2021)

Was your mare from that herd?


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## Horse2018 (29 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Was your mare from that herd?
		
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Nope


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## Clodagh (29 June 2021)

Horse2018 said:



			Nope
		
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I’m lost!


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## Cinnamontoast (29 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			This chap looks mostly Highland and is built like a brick sh1thouse. I wondered if he was one of the foals but why (and where) would someone leave him unhandled until his current owner got him in 2018?

I miss Dry Rot. I always liked his posts, and I would have totally bought one of his horses.
		
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I believe his place is again open, Morrich Highland something on Facebook, saw a post a couple of days ago of someone starting to work with the ponies.



Clodagh said:



			I’m lost!
		
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Same.


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## Caol Ila (29 June 2021)

Clodagh said:



			I’m lost!
		
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Me too.

Yeah, Dry Rot's Facebook page says he's put some horses in training but no one's for sale. Who knows if I'll still be in the market when they are. My timing has been pants for his ponies. Might have bought one a couple years ago if my psychic powers had told me that Gypsum would take a sharp downturn at 27, but at the time, it looked like she would go until she was 30.


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## spookypony (30 June 2021)

OMG I can't believe I missed this thread. What a thing to have happen, on top of everything else! I've had a few friends go through BOGOF situations, and tbh, they all worked out fine in the end. Hermosa will settle down and you'll be able to resume your ground work with her, and you easily have the skills to work out how to befriend the foal and do what basic handling he needs...I think I agree that you need to be nice to yourself first of all and if you can, take a wee break just to wrap your head around everything. Other than the sheep field situation (which you can hopefully resolve), what's the hurry, really? 

I feel for you, re. the unexpectedly longer path ahead with Hermosa. A very good friend of mine bought a 5yo pony mare last year, that had really only received the most basic handling, and had been running more or less feral with a herd of rude youngsters all her life. We've had to creep along slowly, slowly, because understandably, she wonders why she should suddenly do all these things that she didn't have to do before. But over the past weeks, suddenly the penny seems to be dropping, she's coming in much, much calmer, and is concentrating much, much better on her baby lunging lessons. It's all taking longer than my friend had hoped, but I think she will be a gorgeous expressive little ride-and-drive mare for her---just a year or two later than planned. But worth it in the end!

Also, and this is important to your situation: I think she has been especially nervy, because she's suddenly gone from being one in a big group, to moving with no preparation into the role of "lead mare" in a strange group in a strange place. That's got to be a bit like taking a kid out of school and plonking them straight into heading a university department! Hermosa's situation sounds really similar, and I would argue that the fact she was doing so well with you before this setback is a really, really good sign. She'll come round again, once she figures out this being a mum thing.


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## Caol Ila (30 June 2021)

spookypony said:



			OMG I can't believe I missed this thread. What a thing to have happen, on top of everything else! I've had a few friends go through BOGOF situations, and tbh, they all worked out fine in the end. Hermosa will settle down and you'll be able to resume your ground work with her, and you easily have the skills to work out how to befriend the foal and do what basic handling he needs...I think I agree that you need to be nice to yourself first of all and if you can, take a wee break just to wrap your head around everything. Other than the sheep field situation (which you can hopefully resolve), what's the hurry, really?

I feel for you, re. the unexpectedly longer path ahead with Hermosa. A very good friend of mine bought a 5yo pony mare last year, that had really only received the most basic handling, and had been running more or less feral with a herd of rude youngsters all her life. We've had to creep along slowly, slowly, because understandably, she wonders why she should suddenly do all these things that she didn't have to do before. But over the past weeks, suddenly the penny seems to be dropping, she's coming in much, much calmer, and is concentrating much, much better on her baby lunging lessons. It's all taking longer than my friend had hoped, but I think she will be a gorgeous expressive little ride-and-drive mare for her---just a year or two later than planned. But worth it in the end!

Also, and this is important to your situation: I think she has been especially nervy, because she's suddenly gone from being one in a big group, to moving with no preparation into the role of "lead mare" in a strange group in a strange place. That's got to be a bit like taking a kid out of school and plonking them straight into heading a university department! Hermosa's situation sounds really similar, and I would argue that the fact she was doing so well with you before this setback is a really, really good sign. She'll come round again, once she figures out this being a mum thing.
		
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Yes, that is a good point. She's lead mare over baby and old TB, and that alone (nevermind being a mum) probably makes her super insecure because she's not lead mare material. Her mum was at the bottom of the totem pole in her family herd, and when she was out with the herd at the livery yard, she was low-ranking but happily paired up with that group's lead mare.

Breeder's response was shock and then congratulating me on my lovely foal. Told me she thought the sire was the half brother. "Just a hunch."


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## spookypony (30 June 2021)

I'd do the DNA test and get it registered officially, but make the breeder pay for the test, if you can! 

The little Welsh B mare we're working with is settling much more into her role, and is looking far less frequently for her wee herd, when she is brought out for a wee feed and her lessons. Our regime is to bring her in, leave her in the stable for a few minutes to eat a small feed (just a wee sweet snack, really, to get her to associate coming in with something nice), and then brush, tack up, and either work a bit in the school in-hand or on the lunge, or do a bit of clicker training in the stable, depending on how wound up she seems that day: before productive work can happen, we have to work on the emotional state of the horse, so that she is receptive to learning. I wish I had understood that this well, when I first got the Spooky Pony: I might have done quite a few things very differently.

At first, she was like an excited kite on the leadrope, constantly spinning, staring, looking for her friends. We introduced clicker training with a really high rate of re-inforcement, as in, take 2 steps forward, click, treat. Take a step back, click, treat. Take 4 steps forward. Click, treat. Etc. Took many minutes to get to the stable, but the quick, simple questions, slightly unpredictable as to the exact number of steps, and high rate of re-inforcement meant that she learned quite fast to concentrate on us, rather than on what was winding her up. We ignored the spinning and staring as best we could, and over time, these have disappeared, as she has more important things to do (as in, concentrate on us and our questions). Now, she will walk calmly and happily to the barn and all around the farm, with no re-inforcement needed, but if it's a stormy day, for example, we can just take a step back and re-introduce some of those simple questions and the rewards, and that really helps her calm down and concentrate. We are changing the topic, from "ack I am worried and alone" to "here are the nice people that play 'treat vending machine' with me".


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## Caol Ila (30 June 2021)

Catching Hermosa is our current challenge. Nevermind bringing her anywhere. I carry a headcollar 100% of the time but as soon as I (or anyone) show any intent of doing anything with it, she’s off. Oy. Tried to clicker train but while she likes treats, she doesn’t go mental for them and will happily not have a treat in order to run off from a headcollar.

I haven’t properly walked her down yet. It’s been too hot. Waiting for a slightly cooler day with less clegs, as they don’t help. However, Caso is getting very brave and friendly. He’s going to be less of a ball ache than she is.


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## CanteringCarrot (30 June 2021)

Yeahh, it's difficult when they're not so into treats. Took mine a bit. Could also depend on the offering. Carrot, Banana, Apple, actual treat, etc.

I sometimes think male horses can be a bit easier in that they are a bit more "in your pocket" then mares, typically. 

I'm sure it'll come together soon.


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## PurBee (30 June 2021)

lovely picture of them both…caso is gorgeous! I love those straight as a ruler front foal legs!

When my colt was born, i’d read ‘oh colts are hard to handle’…’shame its not a filly’ etc etc. But with consistent handling when he’s a bit further along than caso’s age….colts are a treat to train. Mine was so adorable for foot picking out…holding his back legs straight out as far as he could….cracked me up! He’s always been alert, listens and curious, bold and courageous which help with training. I dont know if young filly’s are less energised by their surroundings as ive never brought up a filly, but i’d have another colt, anyday. 
If anything he was too interested in what was going on and too curious, so escapee methods were learnt etc! His arab blood probably responsible for much of his heightened senses, yet the coltish behaviour was nothing i imagined/read it would be. The bravery of a young colt is adorable really. In comparison to sassy older mares, ill take young colts any day.
You never know, once you get to handle him more, you might quite like to take on his initial training 😉


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## brighteyes (30 June 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			YO has plan A and plan B for the winter, depending on how handle-able the horses are. So we don't have to move. Fantastic.
		
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Brilliant news! Just grand.


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## spookypony (30 June 2021)

Oh wow, what a lovely picture! She looks like she's really pleased with him!


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## Caol Ila (30 June 2021)

Yeah, played with getting a rope over his back and kind of around his neck. Not actually trying to restrain him, but letting him get used to the idea of the rope wherever on his body. So long as I moved it slowly and calmly, he took to it nicely. Her, on the other hand.... You'd think she'd never seen a rope in her life.


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## Hepsibah (30 June 2021)

Scratches? I had one who would stand better for a scratch than anything else. I spent a lot of time scratching her whilst holding a rope in my hand, then in the hand that was scratching, then passing it under her neck with one hand whilst reaching over the top at the same time as scratching her neck until I had her caught. Then I put her headcollar on, gave her a mint, took it off and went away.  After that day I did a lot of putting the headcollar on and taking it off again over and over interspersed with scratches and mints until she got the idea that the headcollar was just one of those weird things people do that she didn't need to worry about.


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## Trouper (1 July 2021)

I wonder if she is anxious that you might be going to separate her from Caso??   Might be an idea just to concentrate on him for a while until you can get a foal slip on him??


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## CanteringCarrot (1 July 2021)

Trouper said:



			I wonder if she is anxious that you might be going to separate her from Caso??   Might be an idea just to concentrate on him for a while until you can get a foal slip on him??
		
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Interesting point. 

On a similar note, it might be a bit of a control/confidence issue. When you catch her, she feels a bit restrained or limited. This leads to worry that she cannot "manage" Caso freely. Or that this takes her attention and ability to control a situation with him away.

Could fade in time as Caso gets a bit older.

Just a thought.


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## Caol Ila (2 July 2021)

His mother is still being wild, but you can’t get away from this little guy now.


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## palo1 (2 July 2021)

That looks fab! It may also help Hermosa to stay calm about him and you and things...foals can play rough with people though so you will need to make sure he doesn't start taking all this lovely attention as a signal to do as he pleases with you/to you lol.


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## Caol Ila (2 July 2021)

Yeah, I've told him off for striking with his front legs and biting. Very mindful of that. I've seen the little b*gger rear up over his mum, and I am going to put the kabosh on anything remotely resembling that with me.


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## palo1 (2 July 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Yeah, I've told him off for striking with his front legs and biting. Very mindful of that. I've seen the little b*gger rear up over his mum, and I am going to put the kabosh on anything remotely resembling that with me.
		
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Too right!!  They can be incredibly boisterous even when they look so tiddly and fragile hahahaha!!


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## Caol Ila (8 July 2021)

Someone said on my other thread that they wanted a Caso update.

Teen mum and son are currently in prison while she remembers that the last 5000 years of domestication happened.

Her attitude is improving. Today was the first time since we removed them from the field that she came up to me and accepted the headcollar like a civilised horse and I didn’t have to grab her by the field safe headcollar. In fact, she wouldn’t leave me alone, which sure beats her running away but made photography challenging. She is remembering her groundwork, and Caso is learning to accept a headcollar, lead, and wear things around his body.


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## Berpisc (8 July 2021)

Glad her majesty is improving, lovely to see an update.


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## Caol Ila (8 July 2021)

Her majesty has been wearing that Hi-Viz quarter sheet. I’ve been gently placing it on her but today I went for the throw, like you normally do with rugs. She took it rather well. Going to have to borrow one of Gypsum’s now clean (😞) rugs to practice with a bigger thing.


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## cauda equina (8 July 2021)

His face! What a love


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## paddy555 (8 July 2021)

they both look lovely.
Sorry  you will not like the next bit so I apologise in advance. I wouldn't consider that situation safe for a foal. It would only take seconds for him to climb inside the feeder whilst you are concentrating on Hermosa and then whilst wondering how to get out getting a hoof caught in one of the haynets despite them being small mesh. I have seen enough calves stuck in feeders and whilst Caso would no doubt get out there is the risk of damage if he were to panic in doing so.


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## Caol Ila (8 July 2021)

I thought someone would say that, which was why I hadn't posted photos.

There were no other options. Nothing about this has been ideal. We are making do with the facilities we have.


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## CanteringCarrot (8 July 2021)

What a curious little dude.

So glad that Hermosa is integrating back into civilized living 😅


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## shortstuff99 (8 July 2021)

I wouldn't worry too much about the feeder, this was mine in Spain and they all survived.


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## shortstuff99 (8 July 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Her majesty has been wearing that Hi-Viz quarter sheet. I’ve been gently placing it on her but today I went for the throw, like you normally do with rugs. She took it rather well. Going to have to borrow one of Gypsum’s now clean (😞) rugs to practice with a bigger thing.

View attachment 75438

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I love his cheeky nibble 🤣. Looks like he will be full of character!


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## Caol Ila (8 July 2021)

My friend who will be buying him is over the moon with him. She's one of those people who has always dreamt of raising her own foal from the very start, but her old horse is a gelding, which makes that difficult. I guess I've sort of thought about it too (who hasn't) but not when I also have a 3-year old to bring on. But he stays in the 'family' this way.

Your wee horse looks very cute, shortstuff. We had ring feeders with the foals in Colorado. There's no freakin' grass there, so everyone had a ring feeder.


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## shortstuff99 (8 July 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			My friend who will be buying him is over the moon with him. She's one of those people who has always dreamt of raising her own foal from the very start, but her old horse is a gelding, which makes that difficult. I guess I've sort of thought about it too (who hasn't) but not when I also have a 3-year old to bring on. But he stays in the 'family' this way.

Your wee horse looks very cute, shortstuff. We had ring feeders with the foals in Colorado. There's no freakin' grass there, so everyone had a ring feeder.
		
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Ah that sounds like the perfect solution, I'm really glad it seems to be working out!

She is very cute although at 3 years old now she is a bit of a menace and ran through fencing and cost me a 6k vet bill 😱.


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## milliepops (8 July 2021)

good news that he has a home lined up. that must take some of the worry and uncertainty away.


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## Caol Ila (9 July 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			Ah that sounds like the perfect solution, I'm really glad it seems to be working out!

She is very cute although at 3 years old now she is a bit of a menace and ran through fencing and cost me a 6k vet bill 😱.
		
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Ouch. Horses...who would have them? Is she on the mend now? More so than your bank account?


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## shortstuff99 (9 July 2021)

Caol Ila said:



			Ouch. Horses...who would have them? Is she on the mend now? More so than your bank account?
		
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Yes, all healed now thank goodness! I have put the progress pictures in this weeks 'weekend plans' thread if you fancy a gander.


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