# If you found out your yard was sedating your horse..



## Gingerwitch (12 December 2013)

What would you do if you discovered by pure chance that your horse was being given sedaline on a regular basis without your knowledge ?


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## soulfull (12 December 2013)

Simple have a hissy fit and leave


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## MadBlackLab (12 December 2013)

soulfull said:



			Simple have a hissy fit and leave
		
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This and taking legal action


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## ihatework (12 December 2013)

I'm not sure I could print what I thought


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## The Fuzzy Furry (12 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			What would you do if you discovered by pure chance that your horse was being given sedaline on a regular basis without your knowledge ?
		
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I would be very very angry.

Is this prescribed for the horse by a vet for an issue?
If not, why is it being given?
Were you told or did you find out?

To add, I would be contacting the supplying vet & asking them WHY xyz horse was having this administered?
YO (or whoever is applying this) can find themselves in big do-do!


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## be positive (12 December 2013)

Hit the roof!!!! what reason do they have for this, if on box rest they should still ok it with you and the vet who should not be handing it over without reason, if to just keep him quiet I would question the management and then leave.


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## Greylegs (12 December 2013)

OMG!! .... WHAT!!!! ... I'd go completely ballistic! Is this your horse? Why are they doing this?


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## Spotsrock (12 December 2013)

Move
Then sue


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## jeeve (12 December 2013)

Why are they doing it?

But no I would not be happy - if it was say for dentist, or possibly a vet treatment - maybe. You should still have been asked/told. But just to make their life easier? Absolutely not.


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## stormox (12 December 2013)

why on earth would any yard owner do that? unless you had asked them to clip your horse, it wouldn't stand and you weren't there, or some such scenario....


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## Tiddlypom (12 December 2013)

I hope that is a hypothetical situation, OP. Please don't say that this is happening for real .


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## MerrySherryRider (12 December 2013)

I'd take legal advice. And move my horse the same day.


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## Gingerwitch (12 December 2013)

Sedaline paste - not prescibed by any vet for your horse - 2 to 3 clicks to keep him/her quiet whilst being turned out - pure chance it was discovered.


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## babymare (12 December 2013)

I havent read repilies but personally I would hit orbit . totally 100%. So now i will read other posts 0


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## Copperpot (12 December 2013)

I would go crazy and move my horse instantly. And make sure everyone knew why!


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## madmav (12 December 2013)

I would be thinking Harold Shipman was running the yard. Why would they do that? Is this a real-life case? Call in authorities, if so. Hopefully, it's not.


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## SatansLittleHelper (12 December 2013)

I would go absolutely, completely and utterly batshit crazy....!!!!!!!!!!!
Leave and sue..!!!!!!


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## Gingerwitch (12 December 2013)

oh yes - its for real


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## The Fuzzy Furry (12 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Sedaline paste - not prescibed by any vet for your horse - 2 to 3 clicks to keep him/her quiet whilst being turned out - pure chance it was discovered.
		
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Talk to the supplying vet, tomorrow.


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## Red-1 (12 December 2013)

I would be gone tomorrow, if nothing else just because I was not asked or consulted!


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## be positive (12 December 2013)

So basically they are not able to manage the horse properly without resorting to sedation, move to a professional yard where they can manage him.


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## Meowy Catkin (12 December 2013)

I would also find a new yard.


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## joeanne (12 December 2013)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I would go absolutely, completely and utterly batshit crazy....!!!!!!!!!!!
Leave and sue..!!!!!!
		
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Absolutely 100% that!!


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## cptrayes (12 December 2013)

How could they afford it, sedalin isn't cheap???

If go ballistic if it can be proved and possibly report the yard owner for illegal use of a prescription drug.


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## ihatework (12 December 2013)

Leaving the extremely unethical aspect aside, that must be costing the YO quite a lot of money surely?!


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## budley95 (12 December 2013)

Talk to vet, move and legal action. So sorry this is happening to you.


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## Amymay (12 December 2013)

What reason have they given op?


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## babymare (12 December 2013)

Ok gingerwitch im trying to be calm here.. They are giving youtr horse an unprescribed drug daily. FFS move . what hell else are they doing. Personally people would be holding me off yard manager/owner and before anyone says thats regardless of horse issues. Dear god unprescribed drugs !!!


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## Honey08 (12 December 2013)

They'd have to be off their heads to do that.


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## Gingerwitch (12 December 2013)

They don't go out everyday....  , so when they do go out they get sedated... you also then get charged for extra's like shavings, physio, being bathed, supplyments etc - but you never notice a deeper bed, or the supplyments have just run out when you go in the feed room


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## Hexx (12 December 2013)

Jeez - I would hit the roof, probably put someone in hospital and end up in jail! 

What are you going to do?


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## Fools Motto (12 December 2013)

I'd refuse to pay any further bills, find a new yard, and go down the legal route for this poor management. 
OP, if it is you that own said horse, I feel for you (or whoever it may be). Hope they get what is coming...


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## babymare (12 December 2013)

Im sorry Amymay without owner/vet permision no reason explains this. issues with horse? Talk to owner. full stop. Then talk about way forward but to do that is beyond belief. im angry for gingerwitch.


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## Dusty85 (12 December 2013)

If YO didn't yet know that I knew I would be making sure I got hard proof- Ie such as installing a camera or such like. I would then go to the police immediately and be talking to the vet supplying it (if there is one) 

I would also make sure EVERYONE knew why i was moving my horse. I would not be paying a months notice or even giving a notice period. 

I would be livid!!! Hard not to loose temper and end her punching her, but would want to keep calm and not get counter arrested for assault!!


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## MerrySherryRider (12 December 2013)

I can't quite believe this. If the YO thought she or the staff were at risk from a badly trained horse, why not tell the owner to turn out ? 
Staff have a right to work in a safe environment but they do not have the right to drug your horse.


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## Amymay (12 December 2013)

babymare said:



			Im sorry Amymay without owner/vet permision no reason explains this.
		
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No, I agree.  I'm simply interested in what reasons they've given.


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## AA&B (12 December 2013)

-Start looking for new yards tonight - even if it means a longer drive. anywhere is better than where you are now

- Start to plan out your chat with YO. You don't want to say/do something that will make the court case see you as the bad one 

- Source legal advice first thing tomorrow

- Speak to supplying vet


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## MadBlackLab (12 December 2013)

be positive said:



			So basically they are not able to manage the horse properly without resorting to sedation, move to a professional yard where they can manage him.
		
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this


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## babymare (12 December 2013)

Lol Amymay mmm intrigued to


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## Marydoll (12 December 2013)

Sedalin is a pom and whoever has been giving it has no right to administer it without your permission, has the person been riding this horse not knowing its been sedated at some point ? The vet who prescribed ot is rolled up in this as well.
To be given regularly there needs to be a regular supply, why would the vet not question this ?I cant get a supply of danilon without the vet seeing my horse !
Id remove my horse, verbally destroy them and speak to a lawyer, then their ass would be grass.


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## Tiddlypom (12 December 2013)

OP, how did you discover that this was happening? Did you see it for yourself? Is it just your horse or is it others too?

I would be ballistic too, but you need to work out the best plan of action both to stop the practice short term and how to play it long term. Certainly legal action is an option to be considered.


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## AdorableAlice (12 December 2013)

You have all missed the reason why this is being (wrongly) done.  It is nothing to do with an unruly horse/danger to staff.

In my opinion the YO is trying to minimise the trashing of fields.  This is turn will save him/her work, save him/her moaning from other owners and prolong the grazing available and maximise income.

Under hand or what !  You need to move, speak to the prescribing vet and thank god your horse did not have an adverse reaction.


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## Patterdale (12 December 2013)

I'd still be there, still going ape**** whilst furiously packing all my gear ready for horse to move. 

Then I'd move and cut all contact, but make sure to tell everyone within 100 miles exactly what's gone on.


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## Gingerwitch (12 December 2013)

to stop your horse running around and bucking when he/she was turned out - and they did not want any other horses to "kick off" - it was also supposed to prevent your horse from being injured...... only found out as the text to say - give x - 3 clicks today before you turn out was sent to me in error - and I went to yard and asked what they ment ??? i was told "oh sorry wrong text sent to you - it was for y" - so went to check on my horse and he was zonked


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## MadBlackLab (12 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			to stop your horse running around and bucking when he/she was turned out - and they did not want any other horses to "kick off" - it was also supposed to prevent your horse from being injured...... only found out as the text to say - give x - 3 clicks today before you turn out was sent to me in error - and I went to yard and asked what they ment ??? i was told "oh sorry wrong text sent to you - it was for y" - so went to check on my horse and he was zonked
		
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Keep text, move ASAP. sue the back side off them and then slate them


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## Amymay (12 December 2013)

What did you say to them? Have you told the other liveries?  And your vet?


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## Polos Mum (12 December 2013)

Move asap and get my vet to check the horse over and discuss any health implications of long term use in this way.  Once settled into new yard I'd be sure to tell everyone and anyone, including all other liveries there, why I had left

You need to trust YO and this breaks trust on so many levels


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## YorksG (12 December 2013)

So the yard system of turn out, or indeed system of no turnout, leads to horses being difficult to lead, so rather than alter their regime they are using prescription medication, otherwise than as prescribed, to make up for their poor management. It beggars belief, or should. The prescribing vet MUST be informed (if they do know you can bet your life they will say they do not), I would be moving my horse ASAP and informing the animal health department of my LA.


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## tankgirl1 (12 December 2013)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I would go absolutely, completely and utterly batshit crazy....!!!!!!!!!!!
Leave and sue..!!!!!!
		
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This



The Xmas Furry said:



			Talk to the supplying vet, tomorrow.
		
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Yes, speak to the vets ASAP, I don't think they will be very impressed with the situation either!!


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## Arizahn (12 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			They don't go out everyday....  , so when they do go out they get sedated... you also then get charged for extra's like shavings, physio, being bathed, supplyments etc - but you never notice a deeper bed, or the supplyments have just run out when you go in the feed room
		
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Please move yards. For your horse's sake and yours. This is horrendous.


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## Gingerwitch (12 December 2013)

Until I have somewhere else to go - I have not said anything, if they get thrown off the yard - i can hardly graze them on a grass verge, spaces around here are like gold dust at any time of year -let alone December... mine are not excatly hardy critters so even just finding a field will be hard - but have spent the last few hours phoning round and tyring to find somewhere - but I honestly thought this was a top yard - and by the large cost of the basic care.... i honestly thought it was... i discussed everything to the last detail prior to moving... i have only been there since the 1st Dec... is it really only the 12th ?? and i cannot belive what i have walked into


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## Marydoll (12 December 2013)

MadBlackLab said:



			Keep text, move ASAP. sue the back side off them and then slate them
		
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Agree wholeheartedly and id make sure it hit the local press, facebook twitter the lot, id make it my mission to let everyone know how horses are treated in their care


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## Marydoll (12 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Until I have somewhere else to go - I have not said anything, if they get thrown off the yard - i can hardly graze them on a grass verge, spaces around here are like gold dust at any time of year -let alone December... mine are not excatly hardy critters so even just finding a field will be hard - but have spent the last few hours phoning round and tyring to find somewhere - but I honestly thought this was a top yard - and by the large cost of the basic care.... i honestly thought it was... i discussed everything to the last detail prior to moving... i have only been there since the 1st Dec... is it really only the 12th ?? and i cannot belive what i have walked into
		
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So is your horse still being sedated but now with your knowledge ?


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## Hexx (12 December 2013)

Where do you need livery?  I may know someone who could take a couple of short term liveries just so that you can get yours off that yard.


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## Honey08 (12 December 2013)

What a nightmare, hope you find somewhere soon.

Do any of the other liveries know? How did you find out?


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## MadBlackLab (12 December 2013)

I would be telling the other liveries to make them away.


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## Polos Mum (12 December 2013)

If you've only been there a couple of weeks can you go back to your previous yard?  It can't have been perfect as you left but compared to this, I'd also be very concerned about other management practices if using POM drugs on horses it wasn't prescribed for, not in an emergancy!, was acceptable.


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## cheeryplatypus (12 December 2013)

Really upsetting to think that your horse wouldn't be allowed turnout unless he was too zonked to enjoy it. 

Definately speak to your vet about the yard.  Is it even legal to give the horse drugs without your or your vet's knowledge?  What if you took him out and had an accident because he had been sedated without your knowledge?  What if you were competing?  Very upsetting and scary.
Hope you find somewhere else soon.


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## Gingerwitch (12 December 2013)

mary christmas said:



			So is your horse still being sedated but now with your knowledge ?
		
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Well not with my blessing - they wont be out tomorrow anyway as "there day" was today - and I think i have found a place at almost double the cost that can have them on Saturday.... but how on earth do i know i am not out of the frying pan into the fire... my trust has been destoryed !


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## Roasted Chestnuts (12 December 2013)

I would be getting vet out and bloods taken as proof that Sedalin is present in the horses system. Then I would be going the whole hog legally with both yard and vet practice supplying the Sedalin. Make sure you use a different vet to the one the yo uses.

Horse would be getting removed as soon as bloods are taken and would I hell he giving any notice not paying it until bloods are run if they are clean of all medicinal agents then fair enough, if not then all hell would be breaking loose. 

Yes bat **** crazy will feel good but won't get you anywhere in the long run .


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## MadBlackLab (12 December 2013)

Christmas Kia said:



			I would be getting vet out and bloods taken as proof that Sedalin is present in the horses system. Then I would be going the whole hog legally with both yard and vet practice supplying the Sedalin. Make sure you use a different vet to the one the yo uses.

Horse would be getting removed as soon as bloods are taken and would I hell he giving any notice not paying it until bloods are run if they are clean of all medicinal agents then fair enough, if not then all hell would be breaking loose. 

Yes bat **** crazy will feel good but won't get you anywhere in the long run .
		
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Like this idea to so you have proof when you go down legal route


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## MudMudGloriousMud (12 December 2013)

Hexx said:



			Where do you need livery?  I may know someone who could take a couple of short term liveries just so that you can get yours off that yard.
		
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Echo this OP - I know of 3 very good Full livery and 2 nice DIY yards(with optional extra's) in my locality - hell, if it get's your horses off that yard they can bunk in with my girl for a few days - I have the grass and plenty of rugs!!


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## Kikke (12 December 2013)

Spotsrock said:



			Move
Then sue
		
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Yes basically this!


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## amandap (12 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Sedaline paste - not prescibed by any vet for your horse - 2 to 3 clicks to keep him/her quiet whilst being turned out - pure chance it was discovered.
		
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 I think this is disgraceful and completely unacceptable.

When you get your horse to safety get it blood tested and report to previous vets and BHS if yard is registered. I don't know what else you can do not having experience how most yards work. 

Where are people getting all these prescription drugs from to use willy nilly? Surely a vet is involved somewhere?


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## Queenbee (12 December 2013)

MadBlackLab said:



			This and taking legal action
		
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ihatework said:



			I'm not sure I could print what I thought
		
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Both of the above... I'd be the one needing sedating!


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## Gingerwitch (12 December 2013)

MudMudGloriousMud said:



			Echo this OP - I know of 3 very good Full livery and 2 nice DIY yards(with optional extra's) in my locality - hell, if it get's your horses off that yard they can bunk in with my girl for a few days - I have the grass and plenty of rugs!!
		
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Thank you and Hexx so much for your kind offers... it is so appreciated - just had confirmation that my 4 can move on Saturday.... 1 is going to my trainers, 1 is going to her old owners for a week or two and the others are going back on DIY at a new yard - and they have 1 more vacancy coming up on the 1st Jan - i give up with this full livery lark - this is the 2nd yard that has not been what they say on the tin - and it is not for me anymore -i want to know what time they go out, what time they come in, what they get fed, by whom and when !


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## Marydoll (12 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well not with my blessing - they wont be out tomorrow anyway as "there day" was today - and I think i have found a place at almost double the cost that can have them on Saturday.... but how on earth do i know i am not out of the frying pan into the fire... my trust has been destoryed !
		
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Move them and charge the livery to your old yo, or keep all receipts and when you rake their ass over the coals legally re claim until you find a yard in your price range.
You need to tell them that you dont want your horse sedated again or youre being complicit in this.


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## Buddy'sMum (12 December 2013)

Hope you filmed the horse while he was zonked? I'd have had my vet out to take bloods there and then (acepromazine can be detected in the blood for up to 120 hours after administration so you may still have time to take bloods). You'll probably need more proof than a text msg if you decide to take legal action. If it was me, I absolutely would be doing everything in my power to have the YO prosecuted and put out of business. Obviously, you need to move yards, immediately.


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## be positive (12 December 2013)

amandap said:



			I think this is disgraceful and completely unacceptable.

When you get your horse to safety get it blood tested and report to previous vets and BHS if yard is registered. I don't know what else you can do not having experience how most yards work. 

Where are people getting all these prescription drugs from to use willy nilly? Surely a vet is involved somewhere?
		
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It can be easy enough to get drugs although vets have tightened up since the bute in human food made them, I have phoned my vets to ask for sedalin or bute with no problem as long as the named horse is signed out of the food chain and I give a reason to require it, that reason may be to use for clipping, box rest or dental work but it would be easy enough to stockpile some and keep to use whenever the YO felt like it.


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## Girlracer (12 December 2013)

That is absolutely disgusting, how have you managed to bite your tongue!? I know I wouldn't have (and I would also be grazing my horses on the verge outside, feeling very silly!). 

I think get bloods, move, seek legal advice and then make sure anyone who could possibly consider moving their horse to this yard knows what has gone on. 

Hope you sort something soon OP.


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## Marydoll (12 December 2013)

Just read youve got them out, so relieved for you and your horses


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## Gingerwitch (12 December 2013)

I have been reliably informed that sedaing horses and ponies at competitions is seen as the normal in some circumstances... this appears to have rolled over into the horses day to day care.  How they get the sedlaine i am not sure - but like i say it only gets given to those horses that go out.... and i have been quiet forceful in my request for turnout - especially in this wonderfully mild winter


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## amandap (12 December 2013)

Great you can move them soon. x

Do you know I am once again so glad I am lucky enough to have mine at home. It may be far from perfect with all the posh trimmings, but I 100% know what goes on and my horses are safe!


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## Gingerwitch (12 December 2013)

I was lucky that i only moved them 1st Dec- so had already been around several yards - so had an idea of what or where there were spaces.... thankfully i did - its is going to be a right pain having horses at 3 different yards for a while.... but hey ho = not much i can do


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## amandap (12 December 2013)

be positive said:



			It can be easy enough to get drugs although vets have tightened up since the bute in human food made them, I have phoned my vets to ask for sedalin or bute with no problem as long as the named horse is signed out of the food chain and I give a reason to require it, that reason may be to use for clipping, box rest or dental work but it would be easy enough to stockpile some and keep to use whenever the YO felt like it.
		
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Oh, right. I've only ever given bute in laminitis following vet visit, never used sedalin.

ps. No choice Gingerwitch. Hope it all works out soon, sometimes there's a silver lining. xxx


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## Tiddlypom (12 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			How they get the sedlaine i am not sure - but like i say it only gets given to those horses that go out.... and i have been quiet forceful in my request for turnout - especially in this wonderfully mild winter
		
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 Probably on a big yard it's easy to build up a stock of Sedalin. Just tell a vet it's for clipping etc. and then they stash it away for various nefarious purposes.

Echo the call to get a blood test done as soon as you can.

Glad that you have been able to find an escape route out.


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## MudMudGloriousMud (12 December 2013)

So glad you have managed to find spaces for your gang! 
Having worked on several yards (am now on a private stud) I'm rarely surprised by what goes on when clients aren't around, but routinely doping horses to turn them out is a new one on me! 

I would be getting your vet out in the morning to take blood off all 4 of your horses, putting in writing to the yard owner/manager that under no circumstances are your horses to be medicated in any way, informing the yard vet, and the Society of Veterinary Surgeons - https://www.rcvs.org.uk/&#8206; - of the misuse of POM medications, and seeking legal advice. 

Good luck OP xx


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## dieseldog (12 December 2013)

This is an awful thing to happen and I am glad you have found somewhere to move them,  but I'm not sure what you can actually sue for?


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## MochaDun (12 December 2013)

My chin hit the floor reading this, glad you have found an option to move them.  I hope they will all be OK.  The only thing that yard needs to sort out is their grazing - they either have way too little or don't appreciate that horses need regular turnout - there's no excuse this year as with the way the weather's been so kind fields are not in a bad way anywhere yet as far as I can ascertain so could have allowed horses a bit more to avoid them getting overexcited when they do go out.  I had a well respected vet at Newmarket give me guidance on Sedalin the one time I had to use it on mine (he's a friend's brother) and even he was cautious of overuse when not really required.


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## Honey08 (12 December 2013)

dieseldog said:



			This is an awful thing to happen and I am glad you have found somewhere to move them,  but I'm not sure what you can actually sue for?
		
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Using a prescription only drug on your horse without a prescription or permission?

The only trouble is, the vet that gave the drugs to the yard would get in more trouble.


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## starryeyed (12 December 2013)

Agree with taking bloods so you have that additional proof, are any of the other owners aware of what's going on? - i'm assuming not if you found out by an accidental text. That is just awful.  So glad you've found somewhere else for them to go.


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## TrasaM (12 December 2013)

Just checked on Internet and it costs £15.29 for a 10 ml syringe. If it's a controlled drug I assume anyone administering it without prior permission of the owner and having consulted a suitably qualified medic would be in a lot of trouble.

Pleased you're sorted GW. Now get your evidence together and sue the butt off them. Do the other horse owners realise this is happening ? I'm assuming its nit just your horses who are being treated like this.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (12 December 2013)

Get your vet down asap for bloods.


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## YorksG (12 December 2013)

Sedalin is a prescription only medication, not a controlled drug, THAT would be an issue for the police and a whole other can of worms!


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## Zero00000 (12 December 2013)

Can't say more than what already has been said, other than...

Please do not let them get away with it, bloods ASAP, before you move, and start legal action or at least phone BHS for legal advice while you wait for bloods.


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## Darremi (12 December 2013)

Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.


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## Cinnamontoast (12 December 2013)

Crikey, I'd hit the roof! Mine had Sedalin once after weeks of box rest so he wouldn't go nuts being turned out into a small paddock. I cannot comprehend why they think it's ok to do this and at what competition is it standard practice to give Sedalin? Hardly going to help the hore's performance!


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## smellsofhorse (12 December 2013)

I'd be very angry.
I want to know why.
But I'd move my horse as soon as possible.


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## TrasaM (12 December 2013)

FestiveG said:



			Sedalin is a prescription only medication, not a controlled drug, THAT would be an issue for the police and a whole other can of worms!
		
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Sorry, misuse of the word controlled. Meant controlled as prescription only.


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## LynH (12 December 2013)

I left a yard in heavy snow and turned my horses out full time in February just to get them somewhere safe. The yard manager had been tying up my horse for hours with no access to water just to stop her box walking. I hit the roof when I found her and said it was never to happen again. It kept happening even tying her back up 5 mins after I had left the yard ranting that it was never to happen again. I couldn't believe that even though I had been so angry and adamant that it must never happen again, they did it again immediately. People who can do things like this or sedating your horse without your knowledge should not be allowed to run a yard. In your situation I would have bloods taken and would be speaking to a solicitor as well as the vet who had prescribed the Sedalin, BEVA and every other livery on the yard.  I would be doing everything in my power to first ensure the horses safety and then investigating every possible legal recourse available to me.


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## be positive (12 December 2013)

Darremi said:



			Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.
		
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This is true, no actual harm has been done and the YO will say in her defence that the sedation prevented the horse being harmed while turned out, there is nothing to be gained by taking legal action.
I would be furious, let everyone know why the horses were being moved, contact the vet involved as they are likely to be in the dark and should tighten up their practice but I cannot see any point in trying to take this further legally.


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## sarahann1 (12 December 2013)

I can honestly only think of one reason I wouldn't go bat poop crazy and that's if either of mine needed sedation urgently or they'd hurt themselves or someone handling them. 

Regularly giving your horse medication without your permission is disgusting behaviour, how anyone can think that's acceptable is beyond me. 

Glad you've managed to make other arrangements OP, hopefully you can sort out something more practical for the longer term soon.


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## D66 (12 December 2013)

be positive said:



			This is true, no actual harm has been done and the YO will say in her defence that the sedation prevented the horse being harmed while turned out, there is nothing to be gained by taking legal action.
I would be furious, let everyone know why the horses were being moved, contact the vet involved as they are likely to be in the dark and should tighten up their practice but I cannot see any point in trying to take this further legally.
		
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this ^^^^
Also I'm shocked by the number of people, (not the OP), who say they would hit the YO!  Why, what would that possibly achieve?


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## Mike007 (12 December 2013)

Darremi said:



			Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.
		
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No ,there are better ways to deal with this. The OP,s own vet should be brought in asap. the evidence gathered and the matter referen to the RCVS. Someone prescribed the stuff and vets have been struck off for considerably less. It is a serious matter an needs to be refered to the proper authorities. ... And then let the +++t fall downwards.


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## MiniMilton (12 December 2013)

:eek3:


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## Toby_Zaphod (12 December 2013)

The vet that supplied the Sedalin is unlikely to get into any trouble at all. He probably supplied the medication for clipping particular horses & that is fine. The fact that the YO administered it to different horses is nothing to do with the vet. When a tube of sedalin is supplied not everyone uses the whole tube so there can be plenty over, specially on a big yard.

Regarding having bloods taken, before you do this I would make enquiries, possibly with a totally different vet, as to how long sedalin remains detectable in the body. If it is gone in 24 hours then it's a waste of time & money doing it when the horses are staying in as there won't be anything to find. You would need to arrange a visit for bloods on the day you believe it will be used.

As to if there is an offence in administering it or if you can make a case for some other offence I don't know but seek professional advice regarding the legal situation. I'm not generally in favor of the legal route as on many occasions it's a costly & not a very effectinve avenue to go down. On this occasion, if it is legally viable, I would pursue it.


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## be positive (12 December 2013)

Mike007 said:



			No ,there are better ways to deal with this. The OP,s own vet should be brought in asap. the evidence gathered and the matter referen to the RCVS. Someone prescribed the stuff and vets have been struck off for considerably less. It is a serious matter an needs to be refered to the proper authorities. ... And then let the +++t fall downwards.
		
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While I agree that this is situation totally wrong it is likely that the vet that has prescribed the sedalin did so for another horse for good reason, to think he could possibly be struck off because of a dishonest or incompetent YO is not really fair, it is down to the YO and the restricted turnout arrangements not a vet who will not be involved in the running of the yard. I have sedalin here, not much but enough to use in an emergency, it is left over from when I had it for a horse on box rest, it probably should be destroyed but it may be required so will stay until it is used or goes out of date, I will not be the only owner or YO who has some tucked away, not that I would use it in the circumstances in the OP but I could very easily and my vet would be none the wiser.


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## Mike007 (12 December 2013)

My understanding was that the horse was being sedated on a regular basis ,that implies a lot of "spare" sedalin. Please dont tell me that the vet is an innocent bystander. He/she,has aa duty of care and if there is that much spare sedalin floating around then that vet has some very serious questions to answer!


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## Marydoll (12 December 2013)

Darremi said:



			Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.
		
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The OP hasnt said shes after money, and i believe a moral victory and letting the horse world in that area know the disgusting behaviour that is going on in that yard, the behaviour of the yo and staff at the yard is disgraceful.


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## Queenbee (12 December 2013)

MadBlackLab said:



			This and taking legal action
		
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be positive said:



			This is true, no actual harm has been done and the YO will say in her defence that the sedation prevented the horse being harmed while turned out, there is nothing to be gained by taking legal action.
I would be furious, let everyone know why the horses were being moved, contact the vet involved as they are likely to be in the dark and should tighten up their practice but I cannot see any point in trying to take this further legally.
		
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On the other hand, whilst yo was being a lazy *insert insult* and may say she was doing it to prevent harm! her actions were infact placing both horse and rider in potentially harmful situations, owner could have come a right cropper, as could her horse if she had decided to go jumping for the day.... Not something I'd want to do with sedalin in my horse!


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## hnmisty (12 December 2013)

I'd find out the facts and then I would go absolutely bezerk.


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## MadBlackLab (12 December 2013)

Prancer & Vixen said:



			On the other hand, whilst yo was being a lazy *insert insult* and may say she was doing it to prevent harm! her actions were infact placing both horse and rider in potentially harmful situations, owner could have come a right cropper, as could her horse if she had decided to go jumping for the day.... Not something I'd want to do with sedalin in my horse!
		
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Yes very dangerous to rider if they didn't know and rode or competed. It been an accident waiting to happen


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## Queenbee (12 December 2013)

Santa66 said:



			this ^^^^
Also I'm shocked by the number of people, (not the OP), who say they would hit the YO!  Why, what would that possibly achieve?
		
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Would make me feel better, how dare someone administer any drug to someone else's horse without the owners expressed permission (unless it is in an emergency first aid situation) If someone hit my horse without my knowledge or agreement there wouldn't necessarily be any lasting damage, but I'd want to punch the living day lights out of them.  Horses are not humans, but humans being administered drugs under such circumstances would be tantamount to assault, there are a number of potential and valid repercussions, the horse could have had an adverse reaction, sedalin also decreases in efficiency over time.  What if said horse was a danger to clip unsedated and op went to clip her horse, sedated him with the normal dose and ended up injured because that dose didn't touch the sides because yo had had the horse popping it like candy on a daily basis, or how about competitions?  What if one of yo's liveries competed, got drug tested, got banned from competing (I'm assuming its a banned substance)?!  Damn right the yo deserves a bashing, and she certainly doesn't deserve any liveries!  Someone like that who uses short cuts, and secretly drugs her liveries horses, is in my opinion incompetent.  Seriously this post has made me angrier than anything I can remember.


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## Buddy'sMum (12 December 2013)

Darremi said:



			Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.
		
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Has anyone mentioned money? You really think this YO should be allowed to put other horses in her care at risk? Horses shouldn't be ridden for 36 hours after Sedalin administration - as others have said, that was an accident just waiting to happen.


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## TrasaM (12 December 2013)

I think there are a number of relevant questions here.
1. Is there proof that sedative was administered.
2. Had owner given permission for drug to be administered 
3 had veterinary advise been sought prior to administration 
4. Was owner informed that sedative had been administered 
5 was any harm done to horse by the drug
6 was the owner placed in danger by her horse being drugged.

The very least I'd be looking fir would be a complete refund of all fees paid then revenge by making sure everyone knows what the yard is doing.


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## armchair_rider (13 December 2013)

If it's a competition yard could/should the drug testing authorities be informed? Especially if the YO is competing affiliated themselves.

I'd be absolutely furious in your place OP and i'd get my horses out of there ASAP (which I see you've done). However I think you need to tread carefully because you don't have much evidence - only the text and possibly blood test results. For that reason i'd be wary of publically naming and shaming - even if only to the other liveries. However I would report to all relevant authorities.


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## Marydoll (13 December 2013)

Violence while not the answer would be a very understandible reaction imo, the yo has in effect put both horse and rider at risk,absolutely terrible behaviour


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## Luce85 (13 December 2013)

Horrified I have just read that, poor you! Glad you can get them out of there as soon as possible! 
I assume from the text just mentioning your horse's name, that no other liveries have had the same problem? I would let all other liveries know, get a blood test ASAP and ensure anyone who thinks about joining the yard knows what they have been up to behind your back!
Outrageous behaviour from what should be a knowledgeable horseperson to own/manage a livery yard!


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## NaeNae87 (13 December 2013)

That's horrible Gingerwitch.
Good to hear you are getting out of there. IF you do decide to go down the legal route, just be mindful of what you post on social media, DO NOT NAME AND SHAME. It can be seen as slander and used against you in court as evidence. 
Get lots of evidence. Speak to vets about the time that the sedative is still in the blood stream as well as how long the horse is under the influence once it is administered as riding or competing on a horse that has been sedated is not only incredibly dangerous for both you and your horse, it is banned according to the FEI Cleansport guidelines. 
I don't know if you would get any compensation, it is more likely a moral victory. It sounds like the YO has a large supply of the sedative, more than should be needed to sedate and clip one horse. Especially if the sedation is a regular occurrence on multiple horses, so the vet may well be investigated and maybe fined. 
Good luck. xx


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## Patterdale (13 December 2013)

Darremi said:



			Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.
		
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This. 
There must be a lot of people with deep pockets on this thread!

And as for the person who suggested going after the vet for this and complaining to the RCVS......wow. There are some vindictive people about! 
On a large yard it's VERY easy to stockpile sedalin, whilst telling the vet it's for clipping etc. I very much doubt that the vet is in cahoots with the YO and deserves to be 'struck off.' :rolleyes3:


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## OldNag (13 December 2013)

I am completely gobsmacked...no matter what the YO's "reasoning" for administering sedaline... how on earth does she think it is ok to do it without owner's knowledge or permission?  
Glad you have got alternative livery sorted GW. 
I don't see any point in suing as you would have to prove loss.  I don't actually see what you can do, but absolutely worth ringing BHS helpline.


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## RunToEarth (13 December 2013)

God, my blood runs cold for everyone on that yard who are riding/schooling/jumping horses which may still be smacked up to the eyeballs on dope. I understand the stuff has a place but this is a very deceptive use. I'm not sure I would be taking legal action, but I would be letting the other liveries know.


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## LittleRooketRider (13 December 2013)

THEY ARE SEDATING FOR TURNOUT??? HORSES ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO EAT WHEN UNDER SEDATION!!!

You have evidence so sue and hopefully for the sake of others do what you can to finish them ie.e sue, verbally ruin reputation so nobody wants to keep horse there etc.


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## Hackie (13 December 2013)

I had a very similar thing happen, I picked up a horse that had been with a trainer for much longer than intended and discovered the horse had been hormoned within an inch of his life.  He was MASSIVE.  And he'd almost foundered.

I never said anything to the trainer (no point, the horse was back, although I had bloods done, in case needed in the future) and I don't see the point of legal advice unless you can demonstrate damages, but I told everyone who would listen, whenever her name came up.  I still do, and I mean anyone, so that people don't inadvertently put their horses with her.


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## mjcssjw2 (13 December 2013)

its to be hoped nobody competing gets blood tested - how will they explain that!


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## Patterdale (13 December 2013)

Hackie said:



			I had a very similar thing happen, I picked up a horse that had been with a trainer for much longer than intended and discovered the horse had been hormoned within an inch of his life.  He was MASSIVE.  And he'd almost foundered.

I never said anything to the trainer (no point, the horse was back, although I had bloods done, in case needed in the future) and I don't see the point of legal advice unless you can demonstrate damages, but I told everyone who would listen, whenever her name came up.  I still do, and I mean anyone, so that people don't inadvertently put their horses with her.
		
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You 'never said anything to the trainer'?

:eek3:

I will NEVER understand this attitude.


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## paulineh (13 December 2013)

LittleRocketRider said:



			THEY ARE SEDATING FOR TURNOUT??? HORSES ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO EAT WHEN UNDER SEDATION!!!.
		
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A small amount of Sedaline is often given to a horse that is being turned out for the first time after Box Rest. 

GW get all the evidence you can, ask for receipts for any extras that have been done, ie Physio , clipping , Farriery etc. as you have only been at the yard for less than 2weeks I feel that unless you have asked for the above then these things have not been done and the reason for asking the vet for the Sedaline is false.

Get bloods ,keep the txt message,talk to any other liveries (you feel you can trust as some will go straight back to the YO). Take advice from the BHS or your horse insurance, many will give you advice for nothing.

Ask the YO why they sedated your horse. Many mobile phones these days can record a conversation ,just do that . Also speak to the vet that issued the Sedaline and inform him/her that this was bought to give your horse without permission. They ave the right to know what that YO is doing.

There are some good honest Yards around but I do find that many are not hence I now have my own yard. 

Come the New Year you could try and find a small yard you and a friend can rent.

Good luck and have a Happy Christmas


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## jrp204 (13 December 2013)

Is there anything in your contract about 'treating' your horse while on their yard, they may use this to cover their arses. I think sueing is extreme and also hugely costly but highlighting the issues to HH and the BHS if it is a licensed yard may put a stop to it, I bet it is more widespread than we think. I would also be phoning the vets.
Hope the move goes well GW.


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## Honey08 (13 December 2013)

I don't think that you are allowed to record someone unless you've told them??

Talking to the vet that they use is a really good idea.  I wouldn't think they would be very impressed, the vet, if anyone, is the one that would get in trouble.  They could have just been being helpful - our vet leaves us bute and antibiotics in case we get snowed in and need it... Yard owners like this spoil it for everyone.

As for the slander angle, is it slander if you've taken bloods to prove it?


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## Hackie (13 December 2013)

SnowOnSnow said:



			You 'never said anything to the trainer'?

:eek3:

I will NEVER understand this attitude.
		
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Why?  She knew what she had done, me discussing it with her wasn't going to change anything, in fact knowing her for a number of years before this instance, she'd just deny it in the face of all evidence.  She was very arrogant, and one of those 'can't be told' types.  

I was more concerned about getting the horse right again, and was in no way interested in a hoo-ha over it, as what was done was done.  

ETA - we had finished using her as a trainer, and to be honest this was one of a number of things that I had disliked about the way the horse was treated, however having been in lock down (long boring story) I literally had no way of removing the horse from her care.

But to be honest, I never spoke to her again, period - not even to say hello to as I pass her at competitions.

And I tell people why.


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## paulineh (13 December 2013)

Taking bloods is not Slander. Many blood tests are done at a 5* vetting GW is just checking her horse. She can tell the vets that she feels the horse is not right and so requests bloods taken. If any evidence of sedation is found then further action can be taken.

Keep things low key , you are moving and you do not need to give a Reason but if the YO /YM wants to know then tell them the truth. You are in the right.

Honey08 - recording a conversation and not tell some one is not illegal what do you thing the  police and Government do all the time. It would only be there are a back up. I have done it before.


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## dogatemysalad (13 December 2013)

My horse is one of those that reacts explosively to Sedalin. It would be dangerous to give it to her. A sedated horse that is turned out needs observing and if there is hay in the field, there's the possibility of choke. 
 Putting a flight animal in a field, particularly in a herd, reduces its ability to make decisions correctly. There are times when the benefit outweighs the risk but to do this on a regular basis is foolish in the extreme.

The woman needs to change her management and provide sufficient turnout so that horses don't require drugging.

Are the other owners concerned about drugging and over stabling ?


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## NaeNae87 (13 December 2013)

paulineh said:



			Taking bloods is not Slander. Many blood tests are done at a 5* vetting GW is just checking her horse. She can tell the vets that she feels the horse is not right and so requests bloods taken. If any evidence of sedation is found then further action can be taken.
		
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Never said taking bloods was slander, I said if you are going down the legal route, be careful what you say on social media and don't name and shame. There is nothing wrong with gathering evidence....


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## olop (13 December 2013)

I would be completely livid, I would leave immediately, have they done this to your horse OP?


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## Goldenstar (13 December 2013)

I would have had the Vet on the yard  to do a blood test the moment I suspected what was going on.
Legally I am really not sure this will go anywhere but GW can get some advise .
I would move no question it's completely unacceptable .
It will costing a considerable sum so don't get that unless the YOer is using sedalin given by another owner to use for clipping or something like that.
It's just completely bizarre behaviour.


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## Bertieboy (13 December 2013)

You said you found out by a text sent to you by mistake. did the text actually state to give your horse sedaline? was the drug and the horse named in the text? This is very important as ypu dont want to have jumped to the wrong conclusion.


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## TarrSteps (13 December 2013)

paulineh said:



			.

Honey08 - recording a conversation and not tell some one is not illegal what do you thing the  police and Government do all the time. It would only be there are a back up. I have done it before.
		
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Just to clarify, it is. That's why when you phone customer service lines they tell you you are being recorded. Police etc cannot tap without just cause and a warrant. I'm sure people do do it, but that doesn't make it legal, nor does it make it useful if you pursue legal action.

I've not read past yesterday but, OP, have you asked for clarification? You're on your way out anyway, but I'd want to know what went on and why, if only to have the story straight.


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## TarrSteps (13 December 2013)

Hackie said:



			Why?  She knew what she had done, me discussing it with her wasn't going to change anything, in fact knowing her for a number of years before this instance, she'd just deny it in the face of all evidence.  She was very arrogant, and one of those 'can't be told' types.  

I was more concerned about getting the horse right again, and was in no way interested in a hoo-ha over it, as what was done was done.  

ETA - we had finished using her as a trainer, and to be honest this was one of a number of things that I had disliked about the way the horse was treated, however having been in lock down (long boring story) I literally had no way of removing the horse from her care.

But to be honest, I never spoke to her again, period - not even to say hello to as I pass her at competitions.

And I tell people why.
		
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So that people who do things like that know that owners are clued up, 
observant and not okay with it. It also - although I understand it's not the case here - can prevent confusion and bad feeling if there is a genuine misunderstanding. And a warning if there's not.

But then I'm a believer in having these discussions. How can/will people sort themselves out otherwise? It's easy to say the other person knows but it's useful to let them know you know, so they think twice the next time


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## EstherYoung (13 December 2013)

I'm seriously mad on your behalf, GW.

Are the other horses sedated routinely too? Do their owners know?

Do any of the horses on your yard compete under rules? If so, do their owners know that they could potentially end up with an enormous fine and a ban from ALL horse sport for a period of time?

http://www.lregb.co.uk/news/BEFAR_ADVICE CARD.pdf


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## jessjc (13 December 2013)

To a lesser extent, I have previously had my horse stabled at a yard where they were a bit sedation happy. My horse is not fizzy or excitable and certainly does not need sedation. They asked me the first time, when he went out in the field for the first time and then I just kept noticing it on my bill after that.

I wouldn't recommend taking any legal action, as it's really not worth it in this case, as no harm came of it, but I would speak to them, tell others to be aware of this if they are thinking of stabling there, and move to a different yard. If the yard keeps secrets from you, then how do you know what other things they are keeping from you?

Good luck, sounds like a tricky situation.


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## fburton (13 December 2013)

FestiveG said:



			Sedalin is a prescription only medication, not a controlled drug, THAT would be an issue for the police and a whole other can of worms!
		
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Indeed. If they had administered ketamine...


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## tikino (13 December 2013)

get vet out to blood test as proof that she has done this and start legal action as this is both illegal and putting you and your horse at risk. what if you went up and rode not knowing your horse hard been sedated and tripped and fell on you


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## onemoretime (13 December 2013)

mjcssjw2 said:



			its to be hoped nobody competing gets blood tested - how will they explain that!
		
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 Very good point mjcssjw2 imagine talking your way out of that one!!!  People who drug horses should be made accountable for it and exposed!!!


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## cambrica (13 December 2013)

Utterly jaw dropping that anyone would do this! I would have the bloods done, then think very long and hard about your next step, what I mean is don't do anything in anger - although easier said than done!

Research on the internet shows that Sedalin affects the horse for 1 - 4 hours but the affects may be felt upto 24 hours.
It can be traced in the blood for 72-120 hours but repeated dosage means it will be traceable for much longer.
It lowers the blood pressure and would also be dangerous to use with certain wormers.


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## Marydoll (13 December 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			Just to clarify, it is. That's why when you phone customer service lines they tell you you are being recorded. Police etc cannot tap without just cause and a warrant. I'm sure people do do it, but that doesn't make it legal, nor does it make it useful if you pursue legal action.

I've not read past yesterday but, OP, have you asked for clarification? You're on your way out anyway, but I'd want to know what went on and why, if only to have the story straight.
		
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I was under the impression its legal As long as one of the party being recorded is aware of it, thats how people have been exposed by reporters in the past " The Sheikh" being one of the more high profile ones


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## Annagain (13 December 2013)

I agree GW needs to get blood tests - not so much for taking legal action herself (as others have pointed out, no harm has actually been done) but to protect herself if they decide to take legal action. It might sound daft, but picture this: 
GW moves her 4 horses with no notice and (quite rightly) refuses to pay a (fairly hefty, I'd have thought with 4 on full livery) notice period and then tells anybody who listens why. Yard, either through sheer cheek or in a bid to discredit her says she's lying and sues for monies owed and/or defamation. With the bloods she can prove who's telling the truth or - even better - if they know she has bloods, avoid that situation in the first place. 

Glad you've managed to find them somewhere else GW even if it's inconvenient in the short term.

ETA: as an aside, my horse has to have ACP (Sedalin, although he has it intravenously) about twice a year to have the melanomas in his sheath inspected by the vet as it also acts as a muscle relaxant so means he drops everything out for the vet to see. The vet told me it doesn't act in the same way as other sedatives so he's ok to eat while under its influence.


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## fatpiggy (13 December 2013)

It would have been interesting if I had been in the same situation as my horse had epilepsy and the drug at the top of the "not under any circumstances"  list was ACP as it lowers the seizure threshold.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (13 December 2013)

Any update from the op??


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## Gingerwitch (13 December 2013)

I have already paid a month in front, all being moved tomorrow - so will sigh with relief when the last ones are off the yard.  Fortunalty the horse box is still full from the last move - as this was only on the 1st Dec.  Yes one of mine was named in the text "wot we doin about xxxx 2 or 3 clicks of sed today? - and i have heard it called sed at the yard the day before.  I left work got to yard and pony was zonked... was told he had been stuffing himself on the grass and it was a hot day- which was why.  They only got to the yard on the 1st - so i am hoping that in the 13 days they have been there and to my knowledge 5/6 of these days they have not gone out - reasons been given were - worming - had to stay in for 3 days - waiting for the farrier all day and too late to turn out when he came - and physio was late - then today I was told that they have a day in once a fortnight - did not know this when i moved - else it would have been a no no.

Also the turn out i was shown they were having is nothing like the turn out they have - I have challenged this but they have said i must be mistaken.

Its a nightmare for all this to be happening - but thankfully i found out so soon.

As to what i will do - until mine are away from there i really really have not thought it through. 
Fianlly thank you thank you thank you for all the kind offers for a place to go - I was so lucky i already had so many feelers out at other yards - but really wanted the 4 of them together - but i would rather have 4 on different yards in different counties than have them stood in or out and "drugged" up


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## twiggy2 (13 December 2013)

good luck with the move GW


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## babymare (13 December 2013)

Well i hope move gies well GW and you can relax after all this x


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## Darremi (13 December 2013)

Then you better be prepared to pay big bucks for that "moral victory". Do you think litigation is cheap?!


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## Darremi (13 December 2013)

mary christmas said:



			The OP hasnt said shes after money, and i believe a moral victory and letting the horse world in that area know the disgusting behaviour that is going on in that yard, the behaviour of the yo and staff at the yard is disgraceful.
		
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Then you better be prepared to pay big bucks for that "moral victory". You don't think litigation is cheap surely?!


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## Gazen (13 December 2013)

Litigation is not that expensive as this can all go through the small claims court.
Claim for cost of bloods to be done
Claim for loss of money paid in advance for livery
Claim for cost of moving again
Claim for the cost of unused bedding / hay if they have to be left at the existing yard.

It is a nominal amount to lodge a claim.  You do not need a solicitor.  You need to write a letter to the YO outlining your grievances before a claim can be lodged.  They must respond within the time limit specified in the letter and they should be warned that legal action may be taken against them.  There is a process to be followed however it is not too onerous and the information is available online as to how to proceed.


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## MadBlackLab (13 December 2013)

hope all goes well tomorrow and keep us posted GW


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## mjcssjw2 (13 December 2013)

interestingly when I mentioned this threads to the vet I worked with the said it was a police matter! and also mentioned something to do with some drug law but can't remember which, they seemed to think it was pretty serious.


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## Marydoll (13 December 2013)

Darremi said:



			Then you better be prepared to pay big bucks for that "moral victory". You don't think litigation is cheap surely?!
		
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Actually if she makes the claim through small claims court she can do it herself and it isnt that expensive, so i dont know where youre getting big bucks from, people who do things like that yo rely on people not to do anything and thats why they get away with it


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## Marydoll (13 December 2013)

mjcssjw2 said:



			interestingly when I mentioned this threads to the vet I worked with the said it was a police matter! and also mentioned something to do with some drug law but can't remember which, they seemed to think it was pretty serious.
		
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It is pretty serious, the horse and rider were put at risk and as others have said if its happening to  anyone who is competing the horse could/would could fail drug testing !


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## Darremi (13 December 2013)

Gazen said:



			Litigation is not that expensive as this can all go through the small claims court.
Claim for cost of bloods to be done
Claim for loss of money paid in advance for livery
Claim for cost of moving again
Claim for the cost of unused bedding / hay if they have to be left at the existing yard.

It is a nominal amount to lodge a claim.  You do not need a solicitor.  You need to write a letter to the YO outlining your grievances before a claim can be lodged.  They must respond within the time limit specified in the letter and they should be warned that legal action may be taken against them.  There is a process to be followed however it is not too onerous and the information is available online as to how to proceed.
		
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That may be so, but you still have to establish a legal claim in order to succeed. There may be evidential problems, difficulty establishing causation, breach of contract and loss.

And you have to be certain that you will actually be able to recover the money from the person in question.


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## cheeryplatypus (13 December 2013)

Glad you got them out.

If you have had bloods done ask your vet if the yard should be reported to any authority, they should be able to advise on the unliscenced administration of drugs to animals without the owners consent.

Best wishes.


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## Renvers (13 December 2013)

What an awful experience, I am glad you have left that environment I hope the horses settle and you find a good yard soon. Not all Full Livery yards are like that, I am happy on mine, but we have to put a lot of trust in the Yard staff and these sound awful.

What if you had been riding a sedated horse and something happened, they are lucky they haven't caused you or someone else a serious injury by administering sedatives and not telling you before you get on.

I know of horses who have been given a small amount of sedalin prior to being turned out after a long period of box rest on our yard but always with Vet and Owner consent. 

Whether or not you pursue the matter through legal channels having blood tests will allow you to know what levels your horses have and what their immediate management should be (riding etc.). I would also be telling everyone I know about my experience to ensure no one else is put at risk.


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## PollyP99 (13 December 2013)

Darremi said:



			Then you better be prepared to pay big bucks for that "moral victory". You don't think litigation is cheap surely?!
		
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Small claims will not cost big but will ruin potentially the YO reputation -  horse world is a small place  - hence moral victory.

Any particular reason you are against doing the right thing and shaming this practice??


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## PollyP99 (13 December 2013)

PollyP99 said:



			Small claims will not cost big but will ruin potentially the YO reputation -  horse world is a small place  - hence moral victory.

Any particular reason you are against doing the right thing and shaming this practice??
		
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I'm with the other poster getting yours out but not saying anything/doing anything I just don't get.


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## YorksG (13 December 2013)

If it were my horses in this scenario, I think I would be looking at the Vetinary Surgeons Act 1966, the bit about the treatment of animals by anyone other than a qualified Vetinary Surgeon, I think it may make interestin reading.


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## Boulty (14 December 2013)

I'd be speaking to my own vet on the sly to work out if bloods to prove the presence of sedalin would be worthwhile (don't know if it would show up / how long for). After you move I'd be writing a letter of complaint to the prescribing vet, informing the RCVS and taking legal advice from someone experienced in the odd goings on of the horse world. Not sure if you would get anything financially but giving a prescription drug to an animal it has not been prescribed to without the permission of the owner is definitely dodgy ground to be standing on and if word gets out then obviously it won't be good for their business. I'm not sure what legislation applies to running a livery yard but I'm pretty sure if that were to happen at a kennels say (sedating a dog without owners knowledge or vet authorization) then they'd be in trouble and at risk of losing their licence.


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## Goldenstar (14 December 2013)

I don't think this will go anywhere legally unless OP got bloods taken very quickly after she first got the text sent to her by accident .
If its not been done before the horses leave the yard I think the test will be pretty well worthless because it will very easy to claim the drug was administered in an other place , and difficult to prove otherwise .
The costs of a drug test that is suitable to stand up in court may be considerable .
GW I hope the move goes easily and that you have better luck with the yard next time.


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## AA&B (14 December 2013)

Hope the move went/goes well for you today OP. Sending a cuppa and biscuits your way at the end of the day


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## Gingerwitch (14 December 2013)

All moved - one back with my trainer, 2 on diy - fortunalty next door to each other in the stables so not creating havoc and the only one that is upset is the one that has gone back to his old place - but i had dropped the other two off so feel a bit sorry for him - so he was screaming his wee head off - feeling deaf now ! lol

Just had a call to see where my horses are - I have been told that its all a HUGE missunderstanding and that I have made a mountain out of a mole hill and it was a one off - and i really should have spoken to them and they are still expecting a months notice from me. year right


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## cheeryplatypus (14 December 2013)

Hope you're enjoying a large glass of wine now they are out of there.


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## Gingerwitch (14 December 2013)

cheeryplatypus said:



			Hope you're enjoying a large glass of wine now they are out of there.
		
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On a HUGE Gin and Tonic - purely medicinal lol


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## MadBlackLab (14 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			On a HUGE Gin and Tonic - purely medicinal lol
		
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with owners permission lol

Glad all safe and sound. IMHO your not blowing it out of proportion. Even if a one off it was still done without your permission or knowledge


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## gmw (14 December 2013)

Sorry but had to laugh at your last sentence!!!!


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## Amymay (14 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Just had a call to see where my horses are - I have been told that its all a HUGE missunderstanding and that I have made a mountain out of a mole hill and it was a one off - and i really should have spoken to them and they are still expecting a months notice from me. year right
		
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Just as they should have spoken to you before sedating your horse.

Glad the move went ok.


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## dunkley (14 December 2013)

Glad your move went ok 

You are NOT overreacting, and the 'one off' is a pathetic excuse. ..............."Honestly, officer, I only sold heroin once, it was a mistake and a misunderstanding" .................... sorry, doesn't wash   Not quite applicable here, but in ALL cases, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Litigation will not cost you big bucks, unless a solicitor does it for you, so go ahead if you need to.  (I am currently looking at taking out a form of court order - £1200 if my solicitor does it, £60 court fee if I do it myself with downloaded forms.)

I would be tempted to tell her to whistle for her notice, and let her instigate proceedings if she wants to - then you can just offer all your evidence to contradict her/defend yourself.  Small claims will either find in her favour, or yours, but she has the initial expense of kicking it all off.  

Enjoy the well-deserved gin


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## Tiddlypom (14 December 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Just had a call to see where my horses are - I have been told that its all a HUGE missunderstanding and that I have made a mountain out of a mole hill and it was a one off - and i really should have spoken to them and they are still expecting a months notice from me. year right
		
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 I imagine that this was delivered with an air of injured innocence and self righteous indignation?!!

Sorry if I've missed this in earlier posts, but is it a BHS approved yard?


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## Goldenstar (14 December 2013)

dunkley said:



			Glad your move went ok 

You are NOT overreacting, and the 'one off' is a pathetic excuse. ..............."Honestly, officer, I only sold heroin once, it was a mistake and a misunderstanding" .................... sorry, doesn't wash   Not quite applicable here, but in ALL cases, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Litigation will not cost you big bucks, unless a solicitor does it for you, so go ahead if you need to.  (I am currently looking at taking out a form of court order - £1200 if my solicitor does it, £60 court fee if I do it myself with downloaded forms.)

I would be tempted to tell her to whistle for her notice, and let her instigate proceedings if she wants to - then you can just offer all your evidence to contradict her/defend yourself.  Small claims will either find in her favour, or yours, but she has the initial expense of kicking it all off.  

Enjoy the well-deserved gin 

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Op will need evidence that will be difficult unless she's had blood taken quickly after the event.
In the small claims court she will have prove want her lose is I am not sure how she will do that
Unless she has evidence it will her word against the yards ,with the burden of proof tilted against her.


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## Honey08 (14 December 2013)

I would still be tempted to tell them that if she expects you to pay a month's notice you will be taking legal action over this "huge misunderstanding", let them sweat a bit.

Enjoy your worry free night.  Must feel good.  Hope the horses settle down soon.xx


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## amandap (14 December 2013)

The best news ever op! Well done acting so quickly. Phew, I'd join you in a G&T if I had any left! lol

Just re read the text, it's all in there re the "once only" remark!


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## quirky (14 December 2013)

Glad you got them out and all are relatively happy.

I have been sued for leaving without a notice period, even though I had paid a month ahead and was 2 weeks into that month. 
You have the opportunity to counter claim, I did this. It was a little more complicated as there was stolen tack involved but the main part of my claim involved a duty of care to the horse. 
I won  and they paid out to me. Had I not counter sued I would definitely have lost, the judge said as much, due to the contract I'd signed.


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## Love (14 December 2013)

Glad to hear they are all safely out the way now - how awful for you!


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## spotty_pony (14 December 2013)

I would completely flip out. Would quickly find another yard to move to and be gone the same day. Then, I would look into where I stood legally in the situation. Interesting that I have also heard this week of someone else doing this at another yard - think the owner knows about this one though which still doesn't make it right. In this case, Sedaline is being administered to calm a stressy horse in the stable. Neither right, nor acceptable!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (14 December 2013)

Op have you had bloods taken?


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## Kick On (14 December 2013)

GW- OMG just read this, I'm so glad you have moved you horses.

I have to be honest I wouldn't have been able to control myself with YO (how unprofessional)

WTF drugging my horse WITHOUT MY PERMISSON AND KNOWLEDGE!!!! I hope you can warned all other liveries about the YO behaviour!!!! TOTALLY WRONG


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## MadBlackLab (21 December 2013)

How your horse OP now they are moved?


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## pip6 (23 December 2013)

Best of luck. think positive, you found out before you'd been there very long. I went to a yard once, turned out to be nightmare & I went within the month. Move on, you're the lucky one, yours are safe & out of there. At least you aren't now scared about what is happening to them behind your back.


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