# Question about using a stick



## littletrotter (27 November 2015)

I'm returning to riding after a long (18 years ish) break.

When i was a child i rode at a school where they only let you have a stick for the first 5-15 minutes.  We all basically did halt-walk-halt and walk-trot-walk transitions, using the stick if the pony wasn't responsive, until all the ponies were being responsive, and then we had our sticks gathered in before the faster and more complicated riding began.  We were told to only ever use the stick behind the leg, never on the rear or shoulder.  It was leg aid, pause, leg aid and stick together.  It seemed to work well back then, but i mean, i was 10/11/12 and maybe it was the specific school and their horses...?

Anyway, later on i rode other (non RS) horses who tended a lot more towards bolting than bumbling and never used a stick with them as they were already so responsive to the leg.

Now i'm riding again and i bought my own dressage length stick so i could use it without taking my hand off the rein.  The instructor last night said he felt i was "tickling" accidentally (definitely believe him, we were getting very unbalanced on corners in canter as he tried to speed up and turn, and i think it was due to that, no matter how hard i try to keep it all in my head i inevitably seem to have it sticking where i don't want it when i don't want it to).  So he gave me a shorter stick.  I couldn't use it without taking my hand off the rein, and i couldn't turn sharply in canter towards a wee jump and take my hand off the rein.  He did say to others (not me that i'm aware of) "tap tap!" if they were struggling to get impulsion turning towards the fences, so i'm assuming he wants the stick to be used if needed in that situation.

So my question, after this incredible ramble is, is it normal to use the stick on the shoulder in such situations?  Or will i eventually get enough balance back that i will be fine to use the stick while turning one handed?  I mean i imagine by then my legs will be stronger and i won't need the stick?

I will see the instructor again at the weekend when i take my daughter for her lesson, and will try to ask him then, but until then any help appreciated.


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## Shay (27 November 2015)

In extremis if you can't get your balance and need Ned to pay attention urgently a light tap on the shoulder is acceptable.  But the instructors "tap tap.." is more likely to refer to heels than a stick!

Your original RS sounds immensely sensible.  A stick is a back up artificial aid - not an excuse.  (Not that you were saying it was!)

It sounds like you are having trouble co-ordinating everything you want to do with a longer stick so it is probably better to stick to a short stick for a while.  It is better to use it behind the leg; but is brief "pay attention" tap on the shoulder in an emerging situation is acceptable.  Just not best practice.  Horses should move forward away from the aid - artificial or natural.  The way forward from a tap on the neck is backwards or upwards - not necessarily the desired response!


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## littletrotter (27 November 2015)

I don't think he means a kick because he says "can we kick?  Can we KICK!?  Tap tap?" but i will ask him tomorrow.  I actually find the technique of halt walk halt and walk trot walk with the stick as back up is very good, and certainly sufficient in general.  It's just i'm really weak after such a long break and get weaker as the lesson goes on and the exercises get more challenging.  I imagine in a few months my legs will be much stronger and i won't need the stick anyway.  My original school was very good, they disapproved even of kicking, it was squeeze-nudge-stick.


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## Micky (28 November 2015)

I would try without a stick at all untill you are fully balanced in the saddle at all gaits, if your position is correct and the horses are schooled themselves, you shouldnt need a stick.


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## smja (1 December 2015)

Why do you need to use the stick whilst turning to a jump? You should already have your impulsion before turning, and if you lose some in the turn use the stick once straight to reinforce leg aids.
Tapping the horse with a stick whilst turning seems like a recipe for losing your line to the jump.

I use a tap on the shoulder as a 'pay attention' help when going cross country. I would not use it to generate impulsion.


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## littletrotter (1 December 2015)

Yes, i think probably my riding muscles just need to come back and my greater strength and balance will mean i don't need to know this anyway.

It was the third jump in a little course all on the left rein and had the shortest approach of the 3 (maybe 2 straight strides on my big cob after a sharpish turn back on ourselves).  We were also passing the rest of the class.  I think my horse thought he was finished after the second jump and i was trying to keep him moving past his pals and turn him back on himself towards the third fence (descriptions aren't much use - 2nd fence was between E and K but in from the track, third was diagonally placed at X, class was 5 other horses, stopped with the lead right in the corner past K).  As i asked him to turn (i was looking at the fence we were headed for) i probably lost a lot of leg and he just went a bit bumbly.  I'm afraid i just didn't feel balanced/organised enough to put both reins in one hand and use the stick in the 2 straight strides to the 3rd fence (i must highlight that this "fence" was maybe 8-10" high! the main point was to remain in a hopefully balanced canter, not that we were jumping anything big).  I was too busy trying to give him a clear, straight line to the middle of it.  It was okay, i did manage to kick him on a bit and we managed it okay, i was just left wondering if the instructor thought i should have tapped him down the shoulder.

Anyway, thanks for the responses.  The instructor hands sticks out at the start so not using one at all isn't really an option - the horses i've ridden ARE schooled but there is a reason the stereotype of the less-than-responsive school horse exists.  I think back at full strength i wouldn't necessarily need a stick, but i've not ridden regularly for 18 years and i don't have the muscles to be as clear as needed, especially by the end of the lesson when i'm tired as well as weak.  And the horses aren't daft and can feel this


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## PaddyMonty (1 December 2015)

Remember you dont have to hold a dressage whip at the end. I find most are too long and will end up holding them 6 to 12 inches down from the top. Still usable if you want to but much harder to tickle accidently.


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## Tnavas (6 December 2015)

You were doing what many do with a dressage whip and letting it sit across your thigh, rather than your knee. Because of its length if you have it on your thigh it will bounce and tickle the horse on the flank. You need to hold it loosely in your hand so it sits on your knee.

Its not a good idea to use it on the shoulder as it can cause the horse to hang back - but may be used there if a horse is popping a shoulder out on a turn. 

You are right in that you need to take your hand off the rein to use it correctly - here you need to learn to smartly put your reins in one hand so that you retain control and can still steer.

My riding school riders ALWAYS rode with a stick - they learnt early on how to hold it, how to use it and when to use it correctly. Because of this we had obedient forward moving horses and  ponies that enabled the riders to sit correctly, and be able to apply the aids correctly and effectively. Thumping a pony's side to get it to move rather than for it to be reminded that it needs to obey is not something I enjoy seeing. Ive worked in schools like that and it was horrible.


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## littletrotter (6 December 2015)

Hi everyone, thanks to those who offered advice!

I went out and got myself (from good old Decathlon so fairly cheap!) a shorter stick.  On balance i decided it wasn't really fair on the horse to put up with me learning how to use the longer one better and that if we lost impulsion due to my crap leg then it was my problem.  There's not really a shortcut to strength so i'll just have to keep working at it.

On thursday night there my horse (same boy as usual) was MUCH more responsive.  We were popping a small double with three strides between and i had that wonderful "together" feeling every time, when i was turning into the first fence and feeling deep in the saddle, legs right on, everything completely in balance and just knowing we were on the right stride.  And we were, did it lovely every time.  I was daring myself to ask the instructor to put the second part up (it was about 18" only) but in the end i didn't.  

I do think my legs are coming back a bit as he was much more responsive, in fact i thought at one point i'd be off during the lesson - at our first canter someone was "trying" a pony for sale over a medium crosspole and i think he thought i was going to turn him over it and started to tank off when i rode him past instead!  Luckily though i'm crap at general riding the horse i rode as a teen was a bolter so i'm very good at handling that sort of thing and after that i expected him to "go" and just sat still and dropped my hands/relaxed and he still "went" but we were listening to one another rather than wrestling.  Once we started jumping he settled right down and was very point-and-shoot.  Great stuff.  Jumped in the car on a high and wandered round Tesco smiling


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## Micky (10 December 2015)

you'll be amazed at how quickly your legs and torso muscles up, keep working on your position and the horse should respond accordingly


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## horselover02345 (4 January 2016)

Tnavas said:



			You were doing what many do with a dressage whip and letting it sit across your thigh, rather than your knee. Because of its length if you have it on your thigh it will bounce and tickle the horse on the flank. You need to hold it loosely in your hand so it sits on your knee.

Its not a good idea to use it on the shoulder as it can cause the horse to hang back - but may be used there if a horse is popping a shoulder out on a turn. 

You are right in that you need to take your hand off the rein to use it correctly - here you need to learn to smartly put your reins in one hand so that you retain control and can still steer.

My riding school riders ALWAYS rode with a stick - they learnt early on how to hold it, how to use it and when to use it correctly. Because of this we had obedient forward moving horses and  ponies that enabled the riders to sit correctly, and be able to apply the aids correctly and effectively. Thumping a pony's side to get it to move rather than for it to be reminded that it needs to obey is not something I enjoy seeing. Ive worked in schools like that and it was horrible.
		
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I can vary between horses, i ride a 14 hh cob mare and she is a bit lazy in trot and canter without a whip, my instuctor gave me a dressage whip and i naturally hold it across my thigh unless im going to use it at that time, i use the whip on her shoulder and after that she wouldn't slow down we were practically galloping round the arena.


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## Tnavas (4 January 2016)

horselover02345 said:



			I can vary between horses, i ride a 14 hh cob mare and she is a bit lazy in trot and canter without a whip, my instuctor gave me a dressage whip and i naturally hold it across my thigh unless im going to use it at that time, i use the whip on her shoulder and after that she wouldn't slow down we were practically galloping round the arena.
		
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Hi - What you must understand is that with a short whip you hold it across your thigh, midway between the top of your leg and the knee - That is the correct place for it to be.

A dressage whip because it is longer it needs to be held so it sits on your knee.

To use a short whip you put your reins in one hand and use the whip immediately behind your lower leg

To use the long whip you bring your hand out slightly and sharply and if the stick is in the correct place it will tap the horse immediately behind your lower leg.

Using the whip on the shoulder is not correct at all and can make some horses stop, shy away or ignore it. You need to use the whip on the engine end - that is from your lower leg backwards. The whip is occasionally used on the shoulder when the horse tries to step out through the outside shoulder in lateral work and circles.


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## horselover02345 (6 January 2016)

I have quite large legs so it always sticks out anyway, the pony i ride responds to the shoulder, once she knows that i have a whip she will go naturally.  Please bare in mind that i don't usually use a whip as i had a one off lesson with a smaller group, i usually ride witha mixed ability group with leaders and my instuctor doesn't really use whips on her or any horses i ride.


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## Tnavas (7 January 2016)

horselover02345 said:



			I have quite large legs so it always sticks out anyway, the pony i ride responds to the shoulder, once she knows that i have a whip she will go naturally.  Please bare in mind that i don't usually use a whip as i had a one off lesson with a smaller group, i usually ride witha mixed ability group with leaders and my instuctor doesn't really use whips on her or any horses i ride.
		
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Unfortunately I don't think you are understanding what I mean - the physical nature of a dressage whip is that it is very bendy and long - if held across the thigh it constantly flicks against the horses back - get your instructor to sit on the horse and hold the whip across her thigh so that you can see what happens. If your hands are at all unsteady then the whip will be constantly on the move, many horses will tolerate it but many don't and  it is one cause of crooked horses and stroppy ones too. 

Your instructor in fact should be correcting you when you hold or use your stick incorrectly.

Buy yourself the Pony CLub Manual and learn how to hold your reins correctly in one hand and how to use your whip

How to hold reins correctly in one hand






How to use a short whip correctly


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## horselover02345 (7 January 2016)

Tnavas said:



			Unfortunately I don't think you are understanding what I mean - the physical nature of a dressage whip is that it is very bendy and long - if held across the thigh it constantly flicks against the horses back - get your instructor to sit on the horse and hold the whip across her thigh so that you can see what happens. If your hands are at all unsteady then the whip will be constantly on the move, many horses will tolerate it but many don't and  it is one cause of crooked horses and stroppy ones too.
		
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When i said my legs are quite big and the whip sticks out i meant that is touches my thigh then sticks out to the inside of the arena almost.  i have use short sticks previously on difficult horses and i know how to hold my reins in one hand.  I'm not that good at cantering fast so i usually hold onto the neckstrap or the horse's mane, so i usually use my legs to canter unless the horse slows down then i use the whip.  My instrucor is quite young so i don't think he noticed the whip as he had to focus on another rider.


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## dibbin (7 January 2016)

horselover02345 said:



			I have quite large legs so it always sticks out anyway, the pony i ride responds to the shoulder, once she knows that i have a whip she will go naturally.  Please bare in mind that i don't usually use a whip as i had a one off lesson with a smaller group, i usually ride witha mixed ability group with leaders and my instuctor doesn't really use whips on her or any horses i ride.
		
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I've got fairly thunderous thighs, and I really have to watch the position of my schooling whip to make sure it's not flicking Jazz accidentally, especially going round corners. Long whips are VERY flexible, you'd be surprised how much the end bobbles about even while you're just trotting/cantering round, especially if you're anything like me and need to work on your hand stability!


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