# HOYS today - shocked at 'professional's' behaviour



## Foxy girl (10 October 2014)

Watched the International Showjumping today and still shocked at Ben Maher's reaction to his horse refusing a fence. Anyone else see it?? He cut the corner so hard that the horse couldn't make the jump and refused. Ben reined it back so harshly that the horse fell over backwards, narrowly missing him. There was no excuse for it - the horse looked as if a quick tap and a circle would have been sufficient for him to jump the fence and continue the round. His back reining was almost for effect but it went too far. In my humble opinion he should have been disqualified for it. Disgusting from a 'professional'.


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## blackandwhite (10 October 2014)

I've only seen a video clip but tbh it does look very much like the sort of tantrum you get from teenage girls at local level. Disappointing to see.


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## Amymay (10 October 2014)

Can't stand the child.


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## 3Beasties (10 October 2014)

Has anyone got a link to the video clip please?


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## joycec (10 October 2014)

Yes, I was there and saw it. He pulled the horse over backwards as a punishment for refusing. He should be disciplined, it was extremely ugly to see.


Farouche, on the other hand, was just stunning!


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## showpony (10 October 2014)

Anyone?



3Beasties said:



			Has anyone got a link to the video clip please?
		
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http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12648999


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## Illusion100 (11 October 2014)

showpony said:



			Anyone?

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12648999

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Arrgh! Link leads me back to 3Beasties request for a vid clip!

Been trying to search for this clip but had no luck!


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## Cheshire Chestnut (11 October 2014)

I saw this and both me and my mum were disgusted at him. You're right that he took the corner too tight to the double and the horse refused the second part. There was absolutely no need in reining back that horse TWICE when he could have gone forward past it. It was purely done in temper and the poor horse had a strong bit in, hence going over backwards to get away from the pain he caused in it's mouth.

He ought to be ashamed of himself.


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## Sandstone1 (11 October 2014)

Cheshire Chestnut said:



			I saw this and both me and my mum were disgusted at him. You're right that he took the corner too tight to the double and the horse refused the second part. There was absolutely no need in reining back that horse TWICE when he could have gone forward past it. It was purely done in temper and the poor horse had a strong bit in, hence going over backwards to get away from the pain he caused in it's mouth.

He ought to be ashamed of himself.
		
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How awful, hope there were some complaints put in


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## irishcob (11 October 2014)

How ugly.  I wonder Foxy girl and joycec if you could send an email to HOYS/Grandstand Media voicing your disgust at such poor horsemanship - Ben Mayer should be held to account for his actions and asked to explain himself.


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## Biska (11 October 2014)

Saw it live, It was a disgrace.  He should be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute. Appalling, we were left gasping at his behaviour!


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## Lolita (11 October 2014)

I didnt see it, has anyone formally complained?


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## Sandstone1 (11 October 2014)

Is there a clip we could see?


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## smellsofhorse (11 October 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			Is there a clip we could see?
		
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Yes, I'd like to see a clip too.


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## Red-1 (11 October 2014)

I did not see this incident and cannot comment on this one, but I have seen professional SJ, Dressage and Event riders who make me feel sick with the abuse they give their horses. 

I have to say IMO SJ are not necessarily the worst.


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## Cheshire Chestnut (11 October 2014)

Wishing I'd filmed it. Was almost first in line for the signings and then he stepped out, so I went - no way did I want his autograph after that shambles!


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## Luce85 (11 October 2014)

Would be interesting to see a clip of what happened, did the horse trip over something? Or was it due to his rein back?


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## Cheshire Chestnut (11 October 2014)

Luce85 said:



			Would be interesting to see a clip of what happened, did the horse trip over something? Or was it due to his rein back?
		
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Horse did not trip over, it was pulled backwards so harshly he sat down to get away from the pain in his mouth. He had a fairly harsh bit in and when he refused the jump, Ben pulled him backwards and he backed up. Then Ben (in temper it looked like), jabbed him again in the mouth and yanked him backwards. He continued to pull and the horse sat down, then fell over backwards onto his side. Ben fell off the side. 

The horse was pulled, all the people around me (all strangers) all said the same thing. Was an absolute disgraceful piece of riding.


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## BBH (11 October 2014)

You should have all booed and hissed him out the ring .


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## ameeyal (11 October 2014)

BBH said:



			You should have all booed and hissed him out the ring .
		
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Why dont people shout at him in the crowd, i would have done.


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## sport horse (11 October 2014)

Totally agree with BBH. In France the public even hate the use of a whip - at all - and they do indeed boo. Why are we all so polite?  It would be the very best deterrent of all if the public made their dislike of such actions very obvious.


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## Bigbenji (11 October 2014)

I agree with the poster that said you should see what happens out of the public gaze :/ 

Get the link to a clip then share it about so people can view and judge for themselves, including the sponsors


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## Mariposa (11 October 2014)

Sounds like a nasty piece of work - and not cool to set such a bad example to his young fans.


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## canteron (11 October 2014)

Aren't Land Rover a sponsor - doesn't do them any favours.


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## shadeofshyness (11 October 2014)

Ugh. Not nice. 

The list of professionals I like is forever shrinking.


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## doriangrey (11 October 2014)

He does have a facebook page - maybe air your views on there?  Pretty bad form that his actions haven't had any consequences.


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## showpony (11 October 2014)

This exactly or post on hoys fb page.


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## shadeofshyness (11 October 2014)

Elbie said:



			Crowd should've booed him. Remember at Hickstead once when a horse refused to go up the bank a couple of times and the rider smacked the horse about 5 or 6 times. The crowd were rather vocal!
		
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The public are hopeless usually. We're all too scared of making a scene. There needs to be more backlash for bad behaviour.


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## LovesCobs (11 October 2014)

I take it there's no card system like cross country. Maybe there should be


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## 3Beasties (11 October 2014)

LovesCobs said:



			I take it there's no card system like cross country. Maybe there should be
		
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I'm sure there is for SJ too. Will be interesting to see if he gets one!!


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## Biska (11 October 2014)

He should get a red card, it was absolutely disgraceful. Would you rein your horse back so  hard that it sat down and tipped  over? If BSJA and his sponsors do NOT investigate this, they must be held to account. I for one will be sending emails, no horse should be treated like this.


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## Kat_Bath (11 October 2014)

3Beasties said:



			I'm sure there is for SJ too. Will be interesting to see if he gets one!!
		
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http://www.fei.org/fei/your-role/athletes/warning-cards


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## amage (11 October 2014)

Biska said:



			He should get a red card, it was absolutely disgraceful. Would you rein your horse back so  hard that it sat down and tipped  over? If BSJA and his sponsors do NOT investigate this, they must be held to account. I for one will be sending emails, no horse should be treated like this.
		
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He wasn't competing under BS rules so they technically have no authority to act. It's an FEI show


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## 3Beasties (11 October 2014)

Was very impressed by Charlotte Platt in the puissance tonight and also liked Jay H's reaction when his horse stopped.
		
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Me too, both were lovely to watch


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## siennamum (12 October 2014)

Wasn't Jay lovely generally. What a great ambassador for horse sports. I think if I were an owner (as if!) I'd happily send him a horse on the basis of his attitude last night.


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## livetoride (12 October 2014)

Sounds horrendous. I would far rather see a refusal reprimanded with a couple of swift whacks with the whip than see a horse treated in this way.


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## Anna* (12 October 2014)

livetoride said:



			Sounds horrendous. I would far rather see a refusal reprimanded with a couple of swift whacks with the whip than see a horse treated in this way.
		
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Since it was rider error, I would find this pretty unacceptable too.


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## YorksG (12 October 2014)

Anna* said:



			Since it was rider error, I would find this pretty unacceptable too.
		
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Absolutely agree.


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## doriangrey (12 October 2014)

Some people have questioned his behaviour on his fb page.  Can't see a response though.


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## ebonyallen (12 October 2014)

Outrageous behavior but sorry to say that quite a lot this does go on at a level where you would expect them to know better, horrid little man.................


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## Achinghips (12 October 2014)

I can't see any negative comments on his fb.  Instead, adoring fans as he reigns martyr like making them beg for free Hoys tickets ..... like Michael Jackson doing earth song


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## MrsElle (12 October 2014)

Achinghips said:



			I can't see any negative comments on his fb.
		
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The negative comments are under the photo of Aristo.


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## Sandstone1 (12 October 2014)

Have seen the comments on Facebook. No Reply from the man himself though.
Does no one have a clip of the incident?


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## blackandwhite (12 October 2014)

I've got it via a friend's fb but I have no idea how to copy it off there.


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## Sandstone1 (12 October 2014)

blackandwhite said:



			I've got it via a friend's fb but I have no idea how to copy it off there.
		
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I don't know either, sorry. Maybe someone does. Would be interesting to see it.


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## 3Beasties (12 October 2014)

blackandwhite said:



			I've got it via a friend's fb but I have no idea how to copy it off there.
		
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Can you just copy and paste the link? We might be able to see it depending on her privacy settings.


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## wills_91 (12 October 2014)

Share the link to your own, change the settings on the link to public then posting here might work.

I have commented on his fb page, under the photo of the chesnut and there has been a few responses to it but nothing from him. Is it possible to write on his fb wall or can you only comment on what he has posted? I had intended on writing on his wall but couldn't see that option.

Seems to have caused a lot of upset.


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## blackandwhite (12 October 2014)

What link? Sorry, I'm really tech thick. It just plays as a video, there's no address thingie with it. I really am dim when it comes to this kind of stuff. Oh hang on, I'll get the laptop and see if I get anywhere... bear with me, I'll be back.


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## 3Beasties (12 October 2014)

blackandwhite said:



			What link? Sorry, I'm really tech thick. It just plays as a video, there's no address thingie with it. I really am dim when it comes to this kind of stuff. Oh hang on, I'll get the laptop and see if I get anywhere... bear with me, I'll be back.
		
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#

Can you 'share' it on to your wall? If so, and your friend doesn't mind. I could add you as a friend, upload it to You tube and share with everyone! The more people that see it the better!


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## blackandwhite (12 October 2014)

I'll pm you 3Beasties.


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## blackandwhite (12 October 2014)

You need to clear space in your inbox!


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## 3Beasties (12 October 2014)

blackandwhite said:



			You need to clear space in your inbox!
		
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done


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## Chloe..x (12 October 2014)

siennamum said:



			Wasn't Jay lovely generally. What a great ambassador for horse sports. I think if I were an owner (as if!) I'd happily send him a horse on the basis of his attitude last night.
		
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Even my non-horsey mother said this, she said you could tell how much he cared for his horse by his reactions in every round and how much it meant to him to even be there at HOYS. Wish him well for the future.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (12 October 2014)

blackandwhite said:



			I've only seen a video clip but tbh it does look very much like the sort of tantrum you get from teenage girls at local level. Disappointing to see.
		
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Do you have the video link please?


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## EquiEquestrian556 (12 October 2014)

blackandwhite said:



			I've got it via a friend's fb but I have no idea how to copy it off there.
		
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Is it on YT? Can you paste the link from there directly on here?


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## 3Beasties (12 October 2014)

Got vid, just uploading to youtube. Its not brilliantly clear but is clear enough!!


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## 3Beasties (12 October 2014)

[video=youtube;Rh1OnpAM4f4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh1OnpAM4f4&feature=youtu.be[/video]


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## Tinypony (12 October 2014)

Holly Hocks said:



			[Content removed]
		
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I asked that question up-thread.  I wouldn't have been happy to see a couple of swift whacks, that would have been horribly unfair.  The horse didn't do anything wrong.  (Without getting into a debate about whether horses deserve punishment!).


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## PolarSkye (12 October 2014)

Well that wasn't pleasant to watch .

P


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## sarahann1 (12 October 2014)

Wow, poor horse.


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## sarcasm_queen (12 October 2014)

^^^ben maHer. If you want lots of people to see the video, might want to correct the spelling so it shows up if searched.


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## *hic* (12 October 2014)

I can see why he was pissed off that the horse didn't at least make an attempt to go from there, but his reaction to its not going is completely out of order.


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## kyto (12 October 2014)

That is absolutely appalling; he wasn't disqualified? Poor horse


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## AnotherNewbie (12 October 2014)

I was there on friday, but managed to miss this...i'm awully glad i did, especially as i was with my non-horsey mum! Don't think she would have been impressed with it (not that i am either!)


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## Tinypony (12 October 2014)

The video isn't easy to see, but it seems pretty clear that the horse just physically struggled and therefore didn't make the jump.  Even if the horse had refused for "no reason", ie no reason that the humans think is reasonable, there would be no excuse to treat it like this.


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## saskiahorsey (12 October 2014)

Disgusting....looked like a huge yank on the horses mouth followed by more of the same.... I cant believe he wasn't pulled by anyone for doing this !


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## Elbie (12 October 2014)

Its hard to see clearly but you can see the initial first "tug" back on the reins VERY clearly. I don't really know why you would do that?


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## Frumpoon (12 October 2014)

Who is aristos owner?


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## Django Pony (12 October 2014)

I have put the video on hi FB page and Tweeted the FEI a link. Poor horse


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## JCWHITE (12 October 2014)

Havent read all the responses, I was there on Thursday, I saw something similar, it wasnt Aristio though.


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## 3Beasties (12 October 2014)

JCWHITE said:



			Havent read all the responses, I was there on Thursday, I saw something similar, it wasnt Aristio though.
		
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Which horse was it? I just assumed it was Aristo?


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## JCWHITE (12 October 2014)

Wings Sublieme. Have to say the horse seemed to drop in short at a double and was too far off the second part the upright.  No excuse for what happened next .
The course builder and the girl who operates the red green board were right next to the incident.
I remember thinking about the sponsors...............


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## DW Team (12 October 2014)

Oh my word that is horrid.  The man should be truly ashamed disgraceful.  Should get heavy fine and suspended from next major international competition.


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## wills_91 (12 October 2014)

Hope the clip gets lots of views now it's on his fb page.

Who would be best to email about this? Surely if we all complain to the correct people they will need to take action.


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## Elbie (12 October 2014)

wills_91 said:



			Hope the clip gets lots of views now it's on his fb page.
		
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Is it? I had a look but can't see it. Deleted?


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## Landcruiser (12 October 2014)

Gosh, that's blinking awful. I imagine a stunned silence in the arena..? What on earth did the commentator say???


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## [59668] (12 October 2014)

It's posted in a reply to the post he put about the horse and the evening "not going to plan" Disgraceful.


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## Elbie (12 October 2014)

[59668] said:



			It's posted in a reply to the post he put about the horse and the evening "not going to plan" Disgraceful.
		
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Ah yes I see it now!


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## Lovetoride (12 October 2014)

Disgusting he should be ashamed.


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## wills_91 (12 October 2014)

[59668] said:



			It's posted in a reply to the post he put about the horse and the evening "not going to plan" Disgraceful.
		
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I cant see that post? I can see the link under the photo. Either way if its getting viewed thats what counts.


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## Amymay (12 October 2014)

saskiahorsey said:



			Disgusting....looked like a huge yank on the horses mouth followed by more of the same.... I cant believe he wasn't pulled by anyone for doing this !
		
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I agree. What a hideous thing to do.


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## exmoorponyprincess1 (12 October 2014)

That is horrible to watch.  Must say, I met Ben Maher at Hickstead a few years ago and he was lovely (although I was there in a press capacity so probably on best behaviour!) so I am totally disappointed to see this as always had a fairly good impression of him. Not any more.


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## sasquatch (12 October 2014)

hoping he gets a yellow card at least from this, this is what I consider 'dangerous riding' and 'abuse of horse' not half the stuff that is actually yellow carded (and the dangerous riding and riders who get away without punishment again and again don't help either)

I've heard several rumors and never considered them more than rumours, saw Ben jump in Dublin and I think he retired after he had a fence or two down or he jumped round with faults. 

What is it with a lot of these younger 'top level' riders who just seem to think its okay to throw the toys out of the pram?


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## McFluff (12 October 2014)

Poor horse. Despicable behaviour. Do owners really want to win so much that they're prepared to put their horse through that? The ugly side of money.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (12 October 2014)

And Mary King got yellow cards for dangerous riding - the horse was just strong. And Ben Maher can get away with pulling his horse over - disgraceful!


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## JCWHITE (12 October 2014)

Just being interviewed live on Sky sports.................


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## ecb89 (12 October 2014)

He put on twitter that the horse was a 'little excited'...


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## Wagtail (12 October 2014)

I'm speechless. It beggars belief really if he with do that in front of thousands of people, what must he do when no one is looking? IMO he should receive a 2 year ban from all competition. Temper tantrums do not have a place in equestrian sport.


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## Echo Bravo (12 October 2014)

Well let more people know, like the Daily Fail as they are good at things like that. The honesty went out of SJ when the prize money went upwards a lot and horses started fetching a lot of money. If the owners of this horse sat there and watched what he did and thought nothing of it, then they aren't horse people just have money to waste and those of you that are SJ fans, you are the people letting him get away with this abuse and several other riders as well. This is why I know longer watch it.


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## smellsofhorse (12 October 2014)

JCWHITE said:



			Just being interviewed live on Sky sports.................
		
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Did he have anything interesting to say?
Defend himself or brush it over?


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## Frumpoon (12 October 2014)

I'm bumping this thread,im think it needs to stay top of the first page of this forum for a good while yet? Is there any way a collective complaint to the FEI could be made?


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## Donnie Darco (12 October 2014)

amage said:



			He wasn't competing under BS rules so they technically have no authority to act. It's an FEI show
		
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And therein lies the problem - good old FEI


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## claracanter (12 October 2014)

I have just watched the video and am shocked at what he did. 
Was it televised? I wonder how the TV commentators handled it. 
If any of us saw that behaviour at a local show we would be appalled, let alone at HOYS in front of thousands of people, by a so called ambassador of the sport, Olympian and role model for kids.
He has to be reprimanded by the powers that be, surely.


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## JayCeeme (12 October 2014)

His best owners were the Phillips who provided him with great horses and he rose from relative obscurity to becoming an Olympic Gold Medalist.  When you treat owners like he treated that poor horse it is hardly surprising he finds himself slipping down the rankings as he is.  I wonder if the American owner of Cella knows about this awful display of bad temper all her other horses appear to be broken.  There doesn't appear to be a queue of new owners wanting to send him horses and this won't help him one bit I'm glad to say.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (12 October 2014)

Frumpoon said:



			I'm bumping this thread,im think it needs to stay top of the first page of this forum for a good while yet? Is there any way a collective complaint to the FEI could be made?
		
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Change.org? Titled 'For the FEI to Grow a Pair & Punish those Riders Responsible for Abuse of Horses During Competion'. Also a further petition titled 'Any Professional Rider Displaying the behaviour of a Three Year Old when Riding Competively Should be Publicly Flogged & Forcibly Dragged Backwards for the Entertainment of the Masses. Where do I sign?


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## Tiffany (12 October 2014)

Not the first time he's taken it out on a horse and no doubt won't be the last unfortunately. No doubt he'll be thinking up some pathetic apology for the equine press


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## smellsofhorse (12 October 2014)

Ive emailed the hoys contact 

http://hoys.co.uk/contact/

At least its a start as to how we can complain.


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## BBH (12 October 2014)

Jane Clark owner of cella also owns aristo.

The sad thing is successful people often have bad behaviour overlooked. I cannot think for a minute there will be any repercussions for him as much as I think there should be.


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## Honey08 (12 October 2014)

Probably the best people for people to complain to is his sponsors.


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## Dave's Mam (12 October 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			I can see why he was pissed off that the horse didn't at least make an attempt to go from there, but his reaction to its not going is completely out of order.
		
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That was an absolutely disgraceful reaction to a refusal.  We've all had one run out / flat refuse.  You don't pull the poor sod over in punishment.  A good sound smack on the ass usually does, not risking your horse's (actually not yours, your sponsor's) back..............


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## Wheels (12 October 2014)

Do we know the name of the horse and who the owner is / are?


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## Amymay (12 October 2014)

Wheels said:



			Do we know the name of the horse and who the owner is / are?
		
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Jane Clark - Aristo


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## Escapade (12 October 2014)

amymay said:



			Jane Clark - Aristo
		
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Was it not Wings Sublieme?


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## Achinghips (12 October 2014)

Can't see the pic to comment on his fb now


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## Chloe..x (12 October 2014)

Just been watching Danielle Ryder with hands over my eyes then, jesus that was terrifying


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## JCWHITE (12 October 2014)

Wings Sublieme


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## 3Beasties (12 October 2014)

Achinghips said:



			Can't see the pic to comment on his fb now
		
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It's still there.


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## Amymay (12 October 2014)

JCWHITE said:



			Wings Sublieme
		
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Sorry, my mistake.


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## Achinghips (12 October 2014)

You have to scroll through his photos to find it, it isn't on the wall


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## Kikke (12 October 2014)

perhaps we can bit him and give him the same pleasure! what a horrible horrible thing to do!!!!!


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## GREYSMEADOW (12 October 2014)

Have just found this on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh1OnpAM4f4





3Beasties said:



			Has anyone got a link to the video clip please?
		
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## Lola43 (12 October 2014)

It seems one of his sponsors is Snowflake shavings.  I use them but might have to find an alternative now for my children's dust allergic pony!  

Ben Maher should be made an example of in the most public way possible in order to send a message to all those making a living from horses - in all disciplines and at all levels - that they are not merely a commodity and that abuse will not be tolerated.


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## pigsmight:) (13 October 2014)

I feel that I have to post, I have seen the clip and agree that it probably isn't his finest moment, but is it acceptable to start a hate campaign against him? I felt uncomfortable reading this thred and comments made are personal and quite shocking. It never fails to supprise me how quickly people are prepared to venomously attack an individual on here.


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## Marydoll (13 October 2014)

pigsmight:) said:



			I feel that I have to post, I have seen the clip and agree that it probably isn't his finest moment, but is it acceptable to start a hate campaign against him? I felt uncomfortable reading this thred and comments made are personal and quite shocking. It never fails to supprise me how quickly people are prepared to venomously attack an individual on here.
		
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I agree that there have been some awful personal comments that are out of order  but that behaviour towards the horse needs addressed


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## Honey08 (13 October 2014)

Yes I agree too.


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## pigsmight:) (13 October 2014)

Absolutely agree Mary doll. I just found the personal attack on Ben a little much.


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## cronkmooar (13 October 2014)

Longer standing members might remember a thread on HHO years ago, which I think as removed even though the name of the perpetrator was not mentioned.

It involved a show jumper, the News of the World and a video ..............


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## DW Team (13 October 2014)

Just been talking this over with OH and he said what about reporting him to the RSPCA or LIPH?


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## *hic* (13 October 2014)

pigsmight:) said:



			I feel that I have to post, I have seen the clip and agree that it probably isn't his finest moment, but is it acceptable to start a hate campaign against him? I felt uncomfortable reading this thred and comments made are personal and quite shocking. It never fails to supprise me how quickly people are prepared to venomously attack an individual on here.
		
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Absolutely right. His behaviour to the horse is shocking as well as stupid but personal attacks, comments on his appearance etc are unwarranted and do not reflect well on those people claiming to find his behavious disgusting.


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## Marydoll (13 October 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			Absolutely right. His behaviour to the horse is shocking as well as stupid but personal attacks, comments on his appearance etc are unwarranted and do not reflect well on those people claiming to find his behavious disgusting.
		
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Agreed


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## Merrymoles (13 October 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			Absolutely right. His behaviour to the horse is shocking as well as stupid but personal attacks, comments on his appearance etc are unwarranted and do not reflect well on those people claiming to find his behavious disgusting.
		
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And who could better spend their time making an official complaint to HOYS, sponsors, FEI, etc.


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## 3Beasties (13 October 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			Absolutely right. His behaviour to the horse is shocking as well as stupid but personal attacks, comments on his appearance etc are unwarranted and do not reflect well on those people claiming to find his behavious disgusting.
		
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This ^^^


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## touchstone (13 October 2014)

I've emailed HOYS, I agree that we need to present a united front without hurling personal insults in order to get any results for the benefit of horses, otherwise we will just be viewed with contempt. 

If there is a large enough outcry then HOYS/FEI will have to take action against future such displays of bad horsemanship I would hope.


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## glamourpuss (13 October 2014)

It might be worth keeping an eye on this page http://www.fei.org/system/files/Jumping_Warning_Cards_10.09.2014_0.pdf
I suspect the FEI will take action. We just haven't heard about it yet. It probably will be a warning card.

However I really think the personal insults & threats to Mr Maher MUST stop.


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## SpringArising (13 October 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			If Mr maher can't take the personal comments I suggest he puts out a statement explaining his awful treatment of that horse.
He is a sportsman in the public eye, people look up to him,especially young people.
He needs to explain himself.
In my view there is no excuse for what he did.
It looked like a temper tantrum to me.
Not a good example to children and young people starting out in the sport is it?
Scary to think what goes on behind closed doors if that's allowed at one of the biggest horse shows in the world.
Come on Mr Maher, explain yourself!
		
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This. I don't see why we should tip-toe around his feelings.


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## Dazed'n'confused (13 October 2014)

I agree, personal attacks on his appearance are uncalled for; what he looks like etc is irrelevant here....
In an ideal world he would have already been pulled up (no pun intended) about his behaviour without the need for a public outcry. However, in reality all that will happen if enough people complain is that he will get a rap on the knuckles, might have to appear humble & apologise & then he'll carry on as before! No one is going to ban him from anything (whether he should be or not) - his horses/owners etc are too valuable to Team GB....
While we've got the can of worms open, has anyone watched the behaviour in collecting rings at the majority of our shows these days? There's enough tugging, pulling, misuse of equipment & the whip to make this scenario seem 'normal'....
(I'm not saying everyone is like that, there are some riders who are fair to their horses but they are becoming a dying breed...)!


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## Spilletta (13 October 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			Absolutely right. His behaviour to the horse is shocking as well as stupid but personal attacks, comments on his appearance etc are unwarranted and do not reflect well on those people claiming to find his behavious disgusting.
		
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Another one in agreement here. I was shocked when I heard about the incident, but think what someone looks like is irrelevant. If he (or anyone else carrying out such a horrible act) was considered a fantastically good-looking person, would people mention appearance in connection with the incident then?


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## chestnut cob (13 October 2014)

Personal attacks are never warranted and just undermine your argument if you can't stop yourself from resorting to petty insults.

However, having seen the clip, his behaviour was terrible.  I would suggest the best way to deal with it is to write to his sponsors.  If everyone who was upset by his actions writes to his sponsors, in the end you'll find they won't want to be associated with him.  The only way to deal with people like this is to hit their pockets, and if you can unsettle his sponsors and risk him losing them, he should soon start to rethink his behaviour and attitude.


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## Achinghips (13 October 2014)

So who are his Sponsers apart from snowflake bedding?


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## Elbie (13 October 2014)

Achinghips said:



			So who are his Sponsers apart from snowflake bedding?
		
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I think Land Rover are?


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## lula (13 October 2014)

Achinghips said:



			So who are his Sponsers apart from snowflake bedding?
		
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Equiline, an italian brand, are one of his biggest sponsors. http://www.equiline.it/

cant find a UK head office address for them though.


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## PolarSkye (13 October 2014)

chestnut cob said:



			Personal attacks are never warranted and just undermine your argument if you can't stop yourself from resorting to petty insults.

However, having seen the clip, his behaviour was terrible.  I would suggest the best way to deal with it is to write to his sponsors.  If everyone who was upset by his actions writes to his sponsors, in the end you'll find they won't want to be associated with him.  The only way to deal with people like this is to hit their pockets, and if you can unsettle his sponsors and risk him losing them, he should soon start to rethink his behaviour and attitude.
		
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I agree with this - I didn't want to respond to this thread after all the, frankly, horrid comments on his personal appearance . . . but I was appalled by his riding - even factoring in the fact that a) I wasn't there; and b) I wasn't sitting on the horse.  There is simply no excuse (that I can find or imagine) for what I watched.  

If, like me, you are outraged by Mr. Maher's actions and want to raise a credible objection, please leave out the rather personal attacks on his appearance (which are, by the way, irrelevant) and focus simply on the facts - which are that he displayed extremely poor horsemanship on a very public stage.

P


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## cronkmooar (13 October 2014)

Achinghips said:



			So who are his Sponsers apart from snowflake bedding?
		
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I think Bucas are as well


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## smellsofhorse (13 October 2014)

I emailed hoys tit ask to complain to.

I posted the video on Facebook Bscwas surprised by the comments that he did no wrong and us that thing he was cruel are "armchair critics"

https://m.facebook.com/groups/116723055080195?view=permalink&id=721738354578659


I think he should be reprimanded.
His treatment of the horse was way over the top however pusinal a cracks are uncalled for.
How he looks or speaks etc has no reluctance here.


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## teabagtoyota (13 October 2014)

3Beasties said:



			Has anyone got a link to the video clip please?
		
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Not sure if this will work...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh1OnpAM4f4&feature=youtu.be


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## Biglets Mummy (13 October 2014)

EquiEquestrian556 said:



			And Mary King got yellow cards for dangerous riding - the horse was just strong. And Ben Maher can get away with pulling his horse over - disgraceful!
		
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Exactly this....


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## smellsofhorse (13 October 2014)

smellsofhorse said:



			I emailed hoys tit ask to complain to.

I posted the video on Facebook Bscwas surprised by the comments that he did no wrong and us that thing he was cruel are "armchair critics"

https://m.facebook.com/groups/116723055080195?view=permalink&id=721738354578659


I think he should be reprimanded.
His treatment of the horse was way over the top however pusinal a cracks are uncalled for.
How he looks or speaks etc has no reluctance here.
		
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Apologies for poor spelling!
Darn phone!

Should say personal attacks!


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## Clare85 (13 October 2014)

Just looked at the comments under the pic of Aristo on his fb page, where the video link was posted. Looks like all negative comments, including the link to the video, have been deleted....


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## Crazy_cat_lady (13 October 2014)

Clare85 said:



			Just looked at the comments under the pic of Aristo on his fb page, where the video link was posted. Looks like all negative comments, including the link to the video, have been deleted....
		
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Just came on to note the same thing wondered if it was my imagination obviously not....


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## wills_91 (13 October 2014)

Yup all gone. Grr that annoys me.


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## Cheshire Chestnut (13 October 2014)

I was there and saw it happen (I posted earlier on this thread). I disagree with the personal attack comments, however I have emailed HOYS show secretary directly at showsecretary@hoys.co.uk and complained officially.

Completely not what you'd expect to see from a professional - I don't expect to see things like that at local shows, let alone ones I've paid a reasonable amount of money to see.


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## wills_91 (13 October 2014)

Cheshire Chestnut said:



			I was there and saw it happen (I posted earlier on this thread). I disagree with the personal attack comments, however I have emailed HOYS show secretary directly at showsecretary@hoys.co.uk and complained officially.

Completely not what you'd expect to see from a professional - I don't expect to see things like that at local shows, let alone ones I've paid a reasonable amount of money to see.
		
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Yes I disagree with personal attacks to. I have emailed one of his sponsors but I will also email HOYs.


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## sam_ (13 October 2014)

Looking at the video it doesn't look like the horse was pulled in particularly tight to the double, it looks like the horse just didn't make the distance but his reaction to it was far to extreme especially from a so called 'professional' who is supposed to set an example and be a 'role model' to aspiring riders. 
Unfortunately this sort of thing is not uncommon, what really gets under my skin when it's rider error and they take it on the poor horse, pulling and spurring there's just really no need!


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## Wundahorse (13 October 2014)

I am absolutely shocked at Ben Maher's appalling conduct and feel so saddened for his horses. I wouldn't let him anywhere near our horses. Perhaps the equestrian community needs to voice a united grievance to BS and the BHS as such poor horsemanship at this level needs to be dealt with swiftly and bring this awful man to justice. A ban would suffice and his owners should really reappraise their contracts with him.


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## Clare85 (13 October 2014)

me&Harvey said:



			Just came on to note the same thing wondered if it was my imagination obviously not....
		
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He's also changed the settings on his page so that you can't comment on his posts unless you have liked the page first!


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## Cinnamontoast (13 October 2014)

That's not nice to watch, bit of a dumb thing to do given he could have been really hurt yanking the horse over. Poor horse.


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## saskiahorsey (13 October 2014)

Clare85 said:



			Just looked at the comments under the pic of Aristo on his fb page, where the video link was posted. Looks like all negative comments, including the link to the video, have been deleted....
		
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well this says it all to me..... doesn't want to answer just brush it under carpet...im too good to listen to you minions ...... well I for one will not be switching on to any of his performances and if the powers that be are ok with this...well il be cancelling my sky subscription (I only have it for the horse stuff) I have already complained to hoys but I doubt it will go further...if this was a local show he would have been hung drawn and quartered !!


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## zigzag (13 October 2014)

Clare85 said:



			He's also changed the settings on his page so that you can't comment on his posts unless you have liked the page first!
		
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If you previously commented and had it removed, even if you like the page you can no longer comment...


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## JCWHITE (13 October 2014)

Press office at HOYS have my views, anyone a link to the FEI ?


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## wills_91 (13 October 2014)

Dammit he has removed all my comments & can no longer comment at all. I have "unliked"


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## Wizzkid (13 October 2014)

They have all just been cleared again!


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## xspiralx (13 October 2014)

He can't delete comments on twitter.... Just saying.


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## dibbin (13 October 2014)

Poor poor horse  that was not pleasant to watch.


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## jellybean55 (13 October 2014)

I'm still able to comment on his fb page


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## wills_91 (13 October 2014)

jellybean55 said:



			I'm still able to comment on his fb page
		
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Im assuming I have been blocked.


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## Foxy girl (13 October 2014)

As the OP of this post I just want to say that I posted to comment on my horror at the way the horse was treated - I am a bit shocked by the personal comments it has generated and agree that efforts would be better directed to complaining to the powers that be - as I have done to HOYS via their contact us facility on their website.


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## rebmw (13 October 2014)

I am another person who previously thought ben was a nice quiet rider and one to be emulated.  How wrong was I. This is not a good example to set anyone let alone at one of our top shows. Terrible lack of self control mr maher and very poor horsemanship. I hope you are ashamed of yourself.


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## Vanah.Horses (13 October 2014)

On facebook by a supporter of Ben? Does this really say it all? We think not. 

Murdoch Sports Horses He does not need to justify himself to a jealous crowd of spiteful people who have nothing better to do Bens horses have the very best of care and live a life of luxury I suggest you time would be better served doing something about all the starving and neglected horses around the country
13 minutes ago · Like · 2

https://www.facebook.com/vanah.hors...0577236327965/817461771639505/?type=1&theater


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## Vanah.Horses (13 October 2014)

Vanah have been blocked and all comments deleted, even when requested that Ben issues a statement. 

Contact has been made to FEI, HOYS, Ben and his sponsors asking for a statement


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## cornbrodolly (13 October 2014)

The whole affair is very distasteful and shameful- showjumping is a hard and money driven 'sport', and no doubt many horses are abused in their so called 'training'. No wonder show jumping is no longer televised much, and has plummeted in popularity. If Mr Maher doesnt get red card/fined/banned/publicly reprimanded  then the showjumping powers that be are even more corrupt and careless of welfare than I thought.


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## Elbie (13 October 2014)

Vanah.Horses said:



			On facebook by a supporter of Ben? Does this really say it all? We think not. 

Murdoch Sports Horses He does not need to justify himself to a jealous crowd of spiteful people who have nothing better to do Bens horses have the very best of care and live a life of luxury I suggest you time would be better served doing something about all the starving and neglected horses around the country
13 minutes ago · Like · 2

https://www.facebook.com/vanah.hors...0577236327965/817461771639505/?type=1&theater

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Ooh yes I'm so jealous I haven't mastered the art of jabbing my horse severely in the gob...


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## Illusion100 (14 October 2014)

Elbie said:



			Ooh yes I'm so jealous I haven't mastered the art of jabbing my horse severely in the gob...
		
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Perhaps BM could teach you this professional method of his in a clinic, he seems to have mastered it. Of course, hauling your horses back teeth out is just the basics, you must also learn to cause enough pain/distress to make your horse fall over backwards. Then just to make sure you are highly experienced in such training, you must prove you have the mindset to follow this through publicly, say in front of thousands. One has a reputation to maintain.

It's important for people to know horses are machines and if they disfunction, they must immediately be rewired by flipping them over, it's the only reboot that works.


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## onceuponatime (14 October 2014)

Brilliant!!!!!


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## gwniver (14 October 2014)

I am just posting to say disgusted I am with this , and I think the HHO should keep this thread going , and keep complaining , until some action is taken . I cannot believe that this has been accepted by the competition hosts , and that he has not yet been called up for his actions . 
THIS HAS TO CHANGE  !!!!


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## marmalade76 (14 October 2014)

Oh dear, just can't keep himself out of trouble, can he?


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## sammy0878 (14 October 2014)

oh dear!! you cant tell what happened from that video!! yes the horse fell but my god ive seen much much worse videos than that one! 
I'm guessing you are all top riders who make a living from riding and competing and have never told a horse off ever??


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## Merrymoles (14 October 2014)

Welcome to the forum Sammy. We are all top riders as you rightly guess.

Have you reported people for the much, much worse videos you have seen?


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## paddi22 (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			oh dear!! you cant tell what happened from that video!! yes the horse fell but my god ive seen much much worse videos than that one! 
I'm guessing you are all top riders who make a living from riding and competing and have never told a horse off ever??
		
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All the eye witness reports say the same thing, and the video shows the same thing. that's consistent enough for me. If that behaviour is something you would do to your own horse then I'd seriously consider taking up a different sport that doesn't involve living animals. 

I've competed for years and never has 'telling a horse off' involved making it fall backwards to avoid pain i'm inflicting on it, regardless of it it was a rider error or not.  If that's the way you ride then you really need to take a hard look at yourself. And for a professional rider to do that and not acknowledge it is 100 times worse - he's saying it's acceptable. And it's completely not.


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## Dizzy socks (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			oh dear!! you cant tell what happened from that video!! yes the horse fell but my god ive seen much much worse videos than that one! 
I'm guessing you are all top riders who make a living from riding and competing and have never told a horse off ever??
		
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Well I've never pulled a horse over backwards...

*Are you saying you can only ever comment on something if you do it to a top level?*

It looks fairly obvious what has happened in that video to me. And I hope the worse videos you have seen were reported?
 Just because worse exists does not mean attempts should not be made to make this better.

*Two wrongs don't make a right*, and I do believe this needs addressing.


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## Clare85 (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			oh dear!! you cant tell what happened from that video!! yes the horse fell but my god ive seen much much worse videos than that one! 
I'm guessing you are all top riders who make a living from riding and competing and have never told a horse off ever??
		
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Wow! If you think Maher's treatment of the horse in the video is acceptable then I would hate to be any horse of yours! Just because you have seen worse, doesn't make what he did right. And it's the worry that he would do much worse behind closed doors if he is prepared to behave so cruelly in front of a crowd of thousands. And you can see what happened from the video - he hauled on the horse's mouth so hard and long that the horse fell over backwards. Dangerous and cruel behaviour!


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## AnotherNewbie (14 October 2014)

There was 21 pages on this thread earlier....now there are 18....does that mean this is being deleted too? I'm confused!


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## *hic* (14 October 2014)

anothernewbie said:



			There was 21 pages on this thread earlier....now there are 18....does that mean this is being deleted too? I'm confused!
		
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Having had a brief squizz it seems that the personal attacks have been removed and rightly so IMHO. Admin have left people's opinions of his behaviour and one can only hope that future posters will not drag this so far off course that their only resort is to delete it.


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## caramac (14 October 2014)

Also interesting you can't seem to get onto his official website now either !  I was trying to find out who his sponsors were as was going to contact them !  Anyone know ?


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## LittleRooketRider (14 October 2014)

I wouldn't say it was an overly tight line at all an I don't think the stop was a result of cutting the corner..but we will never know what caused it

That said appalling and unnecessary behavior on BM's part... a quick tap of the stick not as punishment but to back up the leg aids would be suffice if say for example the horse was backing of the leg and offf the bridle.

I am by no means a top level professional but that is my opinion of the situation..I may probably be wrong
In short I agree with the negative response to his riding in this situation but I am equally disgusted by the petty and personal remarks being made with regards to his appearance and voice.


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## Elbie (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			oh dear!! you cant tell what happened from that video!! yes the horse fell but my god ive seen much much worse videos than that one! 
I'm guessing you are all top riders who make a living from riding and competing and have never told a horse off ever??
		
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Even from a poor quality video you can see the first "pull" when he is leaning right back.

Fair enough, sometimes you may need to tell a horse off but yanking a horse in the mouth is not acceptable. Looks like the horse didn't get it's striding right into the fence but even if BM felt the horse was at fault I would expect a tap on the shoulder. Not dental extraction work!


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## sammy0878 (14 October 2014)

first pull?? The one that stopped the horse running into the steward,  was he meant to let the horse run the steward over??


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## Bustermartin (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			first pull?? The one that stopped the horse running into the steward,  was he meant to let the horse run the steward over??
		
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A half decent rider should be able to stop his horse running someone over without yanking on it like that!!  The video might not be the best quality but you can quite easily see when the horse chucks its head up in the air in pain as Ben leans back and 'socks it in the teeth!'  We may not all be top riders, but we are not complete idiots!


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## Elbie (14 October 2014)

The horse isn't about to run anywhere. Where it is heading is towards another jump so not like it was going to 'run' far. 

Seems like the horse has a surge forwards when he yanks it in the mouth.


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## sammy0878 (14 October 2014)

so now i am a horse abuser and dont deserve my horses!! Jesus!! I am not saying yanking a horse in the mouth is ok and no its not something i do. Do you have any idea the amount of training, money, time, blood sweat and tears that go into achieving the results that BM has! You all seem to think its easy. Ive seen cattle prods used on horses to make them jump and I lost my job for speaking up so I am against any kind of ill treatment of any animal. My point is that there are lots of things that go on and you are all over reacting because he pulled his horse up, looks to me like the horse took more offence than was intended stumbled back and fell, more of an accident than an intention from the rider! We all have our own opinions but dont attack me for having mine!


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## WelshD (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			first pull?? The one that stopped the horse running into the steward,  was he meant to let the horse run the steward over??
		
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The horse had refused and was barely moving, it wasn't exactly legging it!


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## Bustermartin (14 October 2014)

"so now i am a horse abuser and dont deserve my horses!! Jesus!!"???

where did that come from?

Looks like you have your opinion which you are perfectly entitled to, but I have mine - which I am also entitled to.


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## Elbie (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			Do you have any idea the amount of training, money, time, blood sweat and tears that go into achieving the results that BM has! You all seem to think its easy
		
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So because it has taken training, money, time, blood, sweat and tears to get to that level it makes it ok?

I'm not denying that a lot of work goes in to producing horses to that level but I don't ever think it is acceptable to yank a horse in the mouth like that. Yes I've had to have a heavy hand at times like when my horse tries to step out into the road before it's clear or when she has had a spooky moment and been about to take off but I have never, and never would 'pull a horse up' like BM did.


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## Wagtail (14 October 2014)

Sammy0878 it is hugely concerning that you don't think BM was out of order.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (14 October 2014)

Wonder if this will appear in horse & hounds threads of the week on Thursday. ...


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## Elbie (14 October 2014)

Bustermartin said:



			"so now i am a horse abuser and dont deserve my horses!! Jesus!!"???

where did that come from?

Looks like you have your opinion which you are perfectly entitled to, but I have mine - which I am also entitled to.
		
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Someone commented that they wouldn't want to be Sammy's horse if they think what BM was ok


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## sammy0878 (14 October 2014)

I give up!! you have all made your minds up that he is now a horse abuser from one incident. Before i go though have any of you ridden that horse?? is it an easy ride that doesn't react to the slightest little thing! is it normally a rearer? a bucker? I myself had an accident a few months ago when i was run down by one of my own horses that was in a panic, I ended up with the air ambulance in my field and was rushed to hospital, an experience I hope i never have to repeat, so unless you know the horse you cant say what is was going to do. Maybe the pull was a little hard, i wasnt there but this public slating is just rude and ignorant. Im not saying its ok to yank a horse in the mouth at all so dont put words into my mouth and start attacking me!


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## Bustermartin (14 October 2014)

OK - missed that, thanks.    Fair point though......


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## touchstone (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			I give up!! you have all made your minds up that he is now a horse abuser from one incident. Before i go though have any of you ridden that horse?? is it an easy ride that doesn't react to the slightest little thing! is it normally a rearer? a bucker? I myself had an accident a few months ago when i was run down by one of my own horses that was in a panic, I ended up with the air ambulance in my field and was rushed to hospital, an experience I hope i never have to repeat, so unless you know the horse you cant say what is was going to do. Maybe the pull was a little hard, i wasnt there but this public slating is just rude and ignorant. Im not saying its ok to yank a horse in the mouth at all so dont put words into my mouth and start attacking me!
		
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The pull was a little hard ??????   My god - he pulled the animal over!   Whatever sort of horse it is to ride it doesn't justify it I'm afraid, and if Ben Maher is such a wonderful horseman, he doesn't need to resort to hauling horses so hard that they are on the deck!  I'm speechless that anyone is even attempting to justify it to be honest!


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## sammy0878 (14 October 2014)

Fair point?? You don't know me bustermartin so how dare any of you suggest I don't treat my horses well!! They are spoilt rotten although why I'm justifying myself to a bunch.of bunny huggers ill never know


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## Lolita (14 October 2014)

Sammy0878 you seem to only have an account so you can post on this thread. Are you employed by Mr Maher?


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## sammy0878 (14 October 2014)

I'm not saying it's right touchstone but one minute youre riding a good stride to a 160 fence the next your horse is heading towards a person on the ground. What did you want him to do? Let go of his reins and give the horse a polo?? I'm pretty sure when he pulled that horse up it wasn't to make it go over!


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## Wagtail (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			Fair point?? You don't know me bustermartin so how dare any of you suggest I don't treat my horses well!! They are spoilt rotten although why I'm justifying myself to a bunch.of bunny huggers ill never know
		
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Bunny huggers!!


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## sammy0878 (14 October 2014)

I couldn't remember my login details so had to create a new account!! Not that it really has anything to do with you if I'm honest and I wish I hadn't bothered now because I'm being attacked and so is the care of my own horses which is low really low....


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## 3OldPonies (14 October 2014)

Oi, calm down!  

The thread is not about how forum members treat their horses, but about BM's loss of sanity and what he did in pulling his horse over - which undoubtedly is wrong and totally unacceptable whether professional or not. The fact that people are condemning him for such action is not bunny hugging - it's showing compassion for the horse and he should be disciplined by the powers that be and if necessary taken back to basics to teach him that 'pro' he may be - 'God' he isn't.  I just hope that there weren't too many people present who found his actions an 'impressive act of retribution' who will now be tempted to also act in such a way, sadly some people do think that the so-called pros walk on water and if they do it then it must be ok to do themselves.


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## sport horse (14 October 2014)

Perhaps everyone would care to read the extract below that is taken from every schedule for an FEI Show and then fluffy bunnys through to top professionals can make their own decision as to whether the incident at HOYS contravened this ruling or not.

"The Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI) expects all those involved in international equestrian sport to adhere to the FEI&#8217;s Code of Conduct and to acknowledge and accept that at all times the welfare of the horse must be paramount and must never be subordinated to competitive or commercial influences."


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## gwniver (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			I'm not saying it's right touchstone but one minute youre riding a good stride to a 160 fence the next your horse is heading towards a person on the ground. What did you want him to do? Let go of his reins and give the horse a polo?? I'm pretty sure when he pulled that horse up it wasn't to make it go over!
		
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I am not going anywhere near how you treat your horses , and neither is anyone else from what I can tell . All people are pointing out , is that if you think that BM's behaviour is accpectable then I do not want to see what you think is not acceptable !! 

I would also suggest watching the video again - he does not just give one tug , he gives the horse MULTIPLE jabs in the mouth - this would hurt a horse enough in a snaffle with no noseband , and my bets the poor horse had a strong bit + noseband combination . So the only way it could escape pain is by going backwards - that is a big horse , it must have been in agony to produce such movement .


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## Summer pudding (14 October 2014)

sport horse said:



			"The Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI) expects all those involved in international equestrian sport to adhere to the FEI&#8217;s Code of Conduct and to acknowledge and accept that at all times the welfare of the horse must be paramount and must never be subordinated to competitive or commercial influences."
		
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Not only this but he is an ambassador for the sport so should be setting an example...it does make me wonder what goes on away from the public gaze if he thinks this is acceptable.  Has he spoken out in his defence to tell us we are all wrong and missing something?


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## fatpiggy (14 October 2014)

When I was teaching, especially children, I used to get them to demonstrate on themselves why it was so important to not pull back on the reins, whether because of a loss of balance, or loss of control of their temper - insert your little fingers into the corners of your lips and pull as wide as possible. Hurts, doesn't it?


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## touchstone (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			I'm not saying it's right touchstone but one minute youre riding a good stride to a 160 fence the next your horse is heading towards a person on the ground. What did you want him to do? Let go of his reins and give the horse a polo?? I'm pretty sure when he pulled that horse up it wasn't to make it go over!
		
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From what I saw the horse wasn't running off out of control, stewards do have legs and would have been able to get out of the way I'm sure!   I've witnessed more than one event rider shout 'move' at a fence judge before now.   I wouldn't want him to drop his reins and give his horse a polo, but to ride appropriately, without aggression and temper.

 I agree that he didn't want to make the horse go over - it was an unfortunate side effect of using abusive rein aids!


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## gwniver (14 October 2014)

fatpiggy said:



			When I was teaching, especially children, I used to get them to demonstrate on themselves why it was so important to not pull back on the reins, whether because of a loss of balance, or loss of control of their temper - insert your little fingers into the corners of your lips and pull as wide as possible. Hurts, doesn't it?
		
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Yes , exactly , am even better way is to put a Pelham on your shin ( with the curb done around your leg) and then you will see how the feels - I have tried this with just a snaffle and it hurts the hell !!!( BTW I ride without a bit !)


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## teabagtoyota (14 October 2014)

Think some one should pull out any old videos from the SJ archives and watch BM's previous rounds on horses, IMO he has a pattern.... If the horse goes well and keeps up the jumps he leaves the ring patting said horse and all smiles but if horse has a fence down he does this thing that I can only describe as mildly socking horse in the teeth, he normally brings them to an abrupt halt and does a few snatches of the bit on his way out now I've seen him do this on numerous occasions on the TV BUT had the displeasure of watching him on Aristo Z at the Longines in London this year, horse came in on first round went lovely and clear, huge pats on way out, came out did JO had one down, went through the finish then grabbed it into an abrupt halt and did the same leaving the ring..... Guy needs to have his wrists slapped for this and hope that it may serve him well in the future not to do it again.....


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## Fellewell (14 October 2014)

That was not a fall and the 'correction' meted out by Maher had no training value whatsoever. He needs to apologise to the scores of up -and-coming young riders who undoubtedly look up to him.
The take-home message here boys and girls is, 'handsome is as handsome does'


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## Wagtail (14 October 2014)

It's a big shame he is not named in the title of this thread TBH as it would be coming up every time it was searched for on google if it was. He's had a lucky escape there...


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## OWLIE185 (14 October 2014)

Anyone who has any concerns about his behaviour should write in the first instance to his sponsors who if they receive sufficient complaints about his behaviour will 'drop him like a brick'.  This will have an immediate effect upon his income  and result in future potential sponsors no longer wishing to sponsor him.  I would also complain to HOYS, BS, BHS and the good old RSPCA.  Make additional comments on Twitter were they can not be deleted.  We shall make it quite clear to two of his sponsors that if they fail to fully investigate this incident then we will no longer continue to use their products.


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## Summer pudding (14 October 2014)

Google 'Ben Maher' and it brings up the YouTube HOYS clip first. Have you been on his Fb page and asked for an explanation or put a comment..lots of people have and it's very revealing.


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## benson21 (14 October 2014)

I put a comment on his facebook page a couple of days ago, all the bad comments have been taken down, and by the looks of it, anyone who had commented about this incident has been blocked to comment!! Just shows his guilt of this even more in my opinion!


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## Summer pudding (14 October 2014)

There were some negative comments below a picture of Aristo which I added to. I've just seen Mary King's blog and her daughter Emily is going to train with Ben Maher at the end of the eventing season..wonder what she learns?!


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## dunkley (14 October 2014)

The silence from the Mayer PR Machine is deafening .....................................


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## Clare85 (14 October 2014)

Elbie said:



			Someone commented that they wouldn't want to be Sammy's horse if they think what BM was ok
		
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It was me who made that comment. I didn't say that the sammy0878 doesn't deserve her horses, not sure where she got that from. Obviously I don't know her or her horses. However, I stand by my comment - my point really, was that I fail to see why someone would setup an account to defend BM's cruelty if they didn't think his actions were acceptable. It's worrying and frightening that someone would defend his actions in anyway.


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## Clare85 (14 October 2014)

dunkley said:



			The silence from the Mayer PR Machine is deafening .....................................
		
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Indeed.


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## Vanah.Horses (14 October 2014)

UPDATE on Ben Maher at HOYS from the FEI to VANAH

Thank you for your email.

Following your comments, we can confirm that Ben Maher (GBR) was officially reprimanded by the President of the Ground Jury and the Foreign Judge after the incident at the Horse of the Year Show. The horse was also given a thorough veterinary examination after the incident and was given a clean bill of health.

With best regards,

Corporate Communications
Fédération Equestre Internationale
Chemin de la Joliette 8
1006 Lausanne
Switzerland

#vanah Very pleased to hear the horse was ok afterwards and received a veterinary inspection. Clearly Ben DID do something wrong if his actions warranted a caution, just as most people believed! 
And very much despite his very venomous attacks to people who speak out, by his die hard friends and supporters who claim he is perfect!


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## Achinghips (14 October 2014)

I am glad that the FEI have intervened in Ben Maher's cruelty with a caution. He deserved a time limited ban though.


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## 9tails (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			I'm not saying it's right touchstone but one minute youre riding a good stride to a 160 fence the next your horse is heading towards a person on the ground. What did you want him to do? Let go of his reins and give the horse a polo?? I'm pretty sure when he pulled that horse up it wasn't to make it go over!
		
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Here's the problem, Ben Maher WASN'T riding a good stride to a 1.60 fence.  It was clear that the horse couldn't make the distance hence the half stride and refusal.  There was no reason other than he couldn't make the distance for that horse to refuse, he'd already jumped the previous similar fence. Horses do actually try to do what they're asked.


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## canteron (14 October 2014)

Over 52,000 views - hopefully if nothing else Ben M (and any other wayward show jumper) will be aware what negative exposure they can expect if they treat their horses badly publicly - and if you read this Ben, the best way to avoid treating a horse badly in public, is to train yourself to treat them fairly all the time, then you will have other solutions on hand when you need them in the ring.


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## cptrayes (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			I'm not saying it's right touchstone but one minute youre riding a good stride to a 160 fence the next your horse is heading towards a person on the ground. What did you want him to do? Let go of his reins and give the horse a polo?? I'm pretty sure when he pulled that horse up it wasn't to make it go over!
		
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I was within forty metres of this incident with a perfect side on view. The horse was  HALTED nose to nose with an official before Ben pulled it backwards and then over onto its side.

He did it in two stages, the first to get it back off the official and the second in sheer and obvious temper.


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## caramac (14 October 2014)

Is his website down too ? Can't seem to get on that either.  Silly man is making himself look more and more guilty !


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## PolarSkye (14 October 2014)

caramac said:



			Is his website down too ? Can't seem to get on that either.  Silly man is making himself look more and more guilty !
		
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Epic PR fail!

P


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## caramac (14 October 2014)

Theyre slipping a bit though as a negative comment has lasted 24 minutes on his fb page lol


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## Amymay (14 October 2014)

sammy0878 said:



			although why I'm justifying myself to a bunch.of bunny huggers ill never know
		
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I guess that includes the FEI as well then, following their statement.


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## dunkley (14 October 2014)

Someone commented on the FB page that they have seen far, far worse in BS classes from both adults and children.  I merely said that whatever happened elsewhere was neither here nor there, but someone is such a position as BM, and so high profile needed to be seen to be beyond reproach.  Hardly contentious, but it has been deleted.


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## fburton (14 October 2014)

Fellewell said:



			That was not a fall and the 'correction' meted out by Maher had no training value whatsoever.
		
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Yes, but sometimes a horse needs to know it has done something wrong or that it has been naughty. That is what telling off is for. In no uncertain terms! Several cracks with the whip, HARD, would have been better in retrospect. Leave the real reprimanding till later...


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## Amymay (14 October 2014)

fburton said:



			Yes, but sometimes a horse needs to know it has done something wrong or that it has been naughty. That is what telling off is for. In no uncertain terms! Several cracks with the whip, HARD, would have been better in retrospect. Leave the real reprimanding till later...
		
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You are being fasicious,  aren't you??


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## Wizzkid (14 October 2014)

Wonder how long my comment on Facebook will last...


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## caramac (14 October 2014)

Wizzkid said:



			Wonder how long my comment on Facebook will last...
		
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There's one negative one been up for 50 minutes now !  Think I've been blocked, mine were removed straight away and I can't comment any more lol


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## milesjess (14 October 2014)

fburton said:



			Yes, but sometimes a horse needs to know it has done something wrong or that it has been naughty. That is what telling off is for. In no uncertain terms! Several cracks with the whip, HARD, would have been better in retrospect. Leave the real reprimanding till later...
		
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Real reprimanding? ... The incident shows it's rider error so why crack it with a whip 'HARD' when it's not the horses fault? Assuming your referring to Maher of course.


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## HBB (14 October 2014)

Vanah.Horses said:



			UPDATE on Ben Maher at HOYS from the FEI to VANAH

Thank you for your email.

Following your comments, we can confirm that Ben Maher (GBR) was officially reprimanded by the President of the Ground Jury and the Foreign Judge after the incident at the Horse of the Year Show. The horse was also given a thorough veterinary examination after the incident and was given a clean bill of health.

With best regards,

Corporate Communications
Fédération Equestre Internationale
Chemin de la Joliette 8
1006 Lausanne
Switzerland

#vanah Very pleased to hear the horse was ok afterwards and received a veterinary inspection. Clearly Ben DID do something wrong if his actions warranted a caution, just as most people believed! 
And very much despite his very venomous attacks to people who speak out, by his die hard friends and supporters who claim he is perfect!
		
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Well done VANAH, and everyone, who took the time to write a complaint.


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## paddi22 (14 October 2014)

fburton said:



			Yes, but sometimes a horse needs to know it has done something wrong or that it has been naughty. That is what telling off is for. In no uncertain terms! Several cracks with the whip, HARD, would have been better in retrospect. Leave the real reprimanding till later...
		
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I take it this sarcasm or else I'm baffled by this quote. Horses are generous creatures who try their best with the requests we make of them, we have no right to batter them into submission over fences, if they don't want to take them on for their own reasons, be it bad stride, lack of confidence for a second etc - If an otherwise honest horse refused a jump I'd give it the benefit of the doubt and re-present calmly.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (14 October 2014)

fburton said:



			Yes, but sometimes a horse needs to know it has done something wrong or that it has been naughty. That is what telling off is for. In no uncertain terms! Several cracks with the whip, HARD, would have been better in retrospect. Leave the real reprimanding till later...
		
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What do you mean "leave the reprimanding till later"?


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## fburton (14 October 2014)

amymay said:



			You are being fasicious,  aren't you??
		
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Yes, it was a sarcastic pastiche of a certain mentality. "Telling a horse off" in a way that isn't firmly rooted in sound behavioural principles is anathema to me. Sorry if I alarmed or offended anyone.


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## paddi22 (14 October 2014)

fburton said:



			Yes, it was a sarcastic pastiche of a certain mentality. "Telling a horse off" in a way that isn't firmly rooted in sound behavioural principles is anathema to me. Sorry if I alarmed or offended anyone.
		
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i was wondering !?! didn't sound like your normal response!


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## Wagtail (14 October 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			What do you mean "leave the reprimanding till later"?
		
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fburton is being ironic. The way I read his comment was that certain people think nothing of cracking a horse hard with the whip as a reprimand (which they view as being good training), yet are up in arms about this. I think he is also commenting that many people will do that in public but much worse in private. At least that's how I read his comment.

ETA: I have just seen that he has explained his comment now!


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## ChesnutsRoasting (14 October 2014)

Wagtail said:



			fburton is being ironic. The way I read his comment was that certain people think nothing of cracking a horse hard with the whip as a reprimand (which they view as being good training), yet are up in arms about this. I think he is also commenting that many people will do that in public but much worse in private. At least that's how I read his comment.
		
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Thanks WT - I did think what a strange post from a 'normally' sensible poster!


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## JCWHITE (14 October 2014)

All of the rounds were being filmed by the Shows Video producers,
 They had the same side on view that I had.
I am pleased at least some action has been taken, 
Did we ever find out who owns the horse?


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## Amymay (14 October 2014)

fburton said:



			Yes, it was a sarcastic pastiche of a certain mentality. "Telling a horse off" in a way that isn't firmly rooted in sound behavioural principles is anathema to me. Sorry if I alarmed or offended anyone.
		
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Phewee


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## Tiddlypom (14 October 2014)

Does an official reprimand from the FEI have any bite, or is it just a sop?


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## Honey08 (14 October 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			Does an official reprimand from the FEI have any bite, or is it just a sop?
		
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That's what I thought.  It sounded like a gentle slap on the wrist to me, no real effect.


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## dollyanna (14 October 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dneXQOCwyTg

I'd be interested in thoughts on a bit of this video, start at 0:45. Young horse started pulling so he stops it at a wall, puts "leg on, hands back" resulting in a couple of rears before he gives up and moves on. Can anyone tell me what he might have been hoping to achieve because it doesn't make sense to me?


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## Illusion100 (14 October 2014)

He was trying to achieve rein back. The horse was getting strong and probably a bit on its forehand, rein back in this instance would encourage the horse to come back onto it's quarters and learn forward isn't the only direction it may be asked to travel in. It should also encourage the horse to listen better to hand aids such as the half halt.

In this case he doesn't know the horse and it may not understand rein back (or used to different aids for rein back) and got a bit confused of what was being asked of it. The horse also has a weak topline which can make rein back a harder exercise. As the horse was displaying unwanted behaviour repeatedly, BM made the decision not to persist as in front of an audience. 

He should have also exercised that restraint at HOYS.


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## Fellewell (15 October 2014)

fburton said:



			Yes, but sometimes a horse needs to know it has done something wrong or that it has been naughty. That is what telling off is for. In no uncertain terms! Several cracks with the whip, HARD, would have been better in retrospect. Leave the real reprimanding till later...
		
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That's the ticket! Work against your horse's sense of self-preservation and they'll always try their heart out for you. Especially if they associate being ridden under pressure with harsh consequences.

Might have to disagree about the judicious use of a whip. If used at the exact moment of unwanted behaviour with split second timing. Never in temper and never by anyone who thinks a horse can be 'naughty'.


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## maccachic (15 October 2014)

I gave up riding with a whip years ago I always found my young horses went better for praise than any punishment.  However I don't produce a certain discipline I allow the horse to follow what it enjoys I see no point making a horse compete in dressage when it enjoys jumping or vice versa.  I have also found my voice works better than a whip.


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## sarahann1 (15 October 2014)

While I am glad the ground jury saw fit to reprimand, I very  disappointed someone at his level in the public eye is taking the head in sand approach to this, what a terrible example to set. 

Should I ever be at an event with him riding, I'll be turning my back until he is finished.


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## cptrayes (15 October 2014)

Deleted, I answered a post that was about another post above it.


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## Clare85 (15 October 2014)

I suspect there has been no word from Ben on the matter because he doesn't believe he has done anything wrong. A terrible shame for SJ and the wider equine community


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## x-di-x (15 October 2014)

All it needed was for him to come out and say something like

'Ive viewed the incident back and yes it does look horrid.  I was unbalanced and pulled back harder than I ment to, as it thought the horse was going to b*gger off causing the horse to go up and over.  It was rider error for which I am sorry for'. 

It would have been a lie but a better PR lie than what is happening just now.... Head in sand! 

I am appalled at what has happened btw and am not condoning it..... Just suggesting how his PR machine could have handled it


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## paddi22 (15 October 2014)

/\/\/\/\
absolutely agree with the above. if he had have come out and said that at the start, it would diffused it a bit. any rider can appreciate making an error of judgement in a tense situation. if he releases a statement not it just seems like contrived damage control, would have been much easier and humble to just put hands-up at the start.


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## Vanah.Horses (15 October 2014)

His facebook page has been updated within the last 12 hours with a new status. However, it has nothing at all to do with HOYS, no admittance or acknowledgement of either the incident itself or the formal warning from FEI

Where he way once have managed to have apologised and rectified himself slightly for his actions, this has just proven he really does think he is greater than the public, his fans and even the FEI.

The FEI may only be a slap on the wrist but at least they bothered to admit there was a clear wrong-doing by Ben and his riding. 

We have no other replies, either from HOYS, BSJA, Ben or his sponsors.


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## Vanah.Horses (15 October 2014)

PLEVIN PRODUCTS is SNOWFLAKE SHAVINGS, one of the sponsors. 

They have also removed all comments and reference to Ben and his ride at HOYS from their facebook page!
This is our latest, we shall see how long it lasts:
"Voices Against Neglect & Abuse of all Horses (VANAH) Why have our comments and information relating to Bens awful riding at HOYS been deleted and no reply from Plevin to our answers?
What does Plevins now think of the formal reprimand given to Ben by the FEI? 
Or are you choosing to ignore the hundreds of people who have all spoken out against this rider and are deciding denial is the best course of action despite the disciplinary action? Very poor customer service indeed"

https://www.facebook.com/plevinprod...44138240069/10152737255080070/?type=1&theater


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## fburton (15 October 2014)

Fellewell said:



			Might have to disagree about the judicious use of a whip. If used at the exact moment of unwanted behaviour with split second timing. Never in temper and never by anyone who thinks a horse can be 'naughty'.
		
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We wouldn't be disagreeing! Your criteria for "judicious use" are very sensible and practical, but apparently not everyone appreciates the importance of timing - e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRzH-bEIvSQ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU3XT0YEhh8,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wfq38NaGDU,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRq5FokvXz0,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wItxazviDLs - even if they are otherwise good riders.


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## nicolenlolly (15 October 2014)

I was gutted we didnt get to go to HOYS this year as I would have loved to have taken my oldest daughter (7) who loves her jumping and is just starting to follow all the top riders on You Tube every morning before school etc. Ben Maher was one of the riders that she looked up to.  After seeing the video linked on nearly every one of my facebook friend's pages now she asked if she could watch it...she welled up and was so concerned as to whether the horse sustained any injuries as a result of going over. Although I am not glad it upset her, I am so pleased that her answer was one of complete compassion for the horse. Although it is a terrible thing that he did at least it will serve to show the youngsters what will happen if they are too handy with the horses, I too hope that he loses his sponsors and the ride.  Someone who behaves like that and doesnt apologise unreservedly and immediately doesnt deserve to ride again.  If my daughter ever did that, the horse would be in the classifieds section quicker than she could say sorry!


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## exmoorponyprincess1 (15 October 2014)

Has anyone found out what a "reprimand" from the FEI is yet? Like others I can't help but feel it's basically a slap on the wrists tantamount to someone saying to him "Naughty, naughty! Try not to do that again!" 
I have complained to Hoys asking specifically what actions they will be taking as the organisers of such a high profile show where such a bad display of horsemanship was witnessed...awaiting a reponse and not holding my breath!


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## JCWHITE (15 October 2014)

As someone who witnessed the incident, and noted that the video makers were filming, I e mailed the hoys press office, no reply as yet.


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## cambrica (15 October 2014)

I've followed this thread, not commented and have thought the same as all of you have towards BM after viewing the video clip. I agree from what I can see it looks pretty awful.
Now I am really just a happy hacker, with a bit of local showing thrown in and I am not generally at all interested in show jumping so I'm not defending him from a 'fans' point of view.
Having watched a couple of video's of BM jumping Wings Sublieme it has altered my view as to why this happened, quite possibly I'm wrong (won't be the first time) and I wasn't there so can only go on the quality of the video.

This is Wings Sublieme jumping this year, if you watch the first two video's (14 & 10) and see her reaction on refusing the jumps. She attempts to rear, gets herself flustered and leaps forward. It takes very calm and experienced handling from BM to settle her down again. I would think this is due to her being a relatively inexperienced mare. 
http://www.globalchampionstour.com/profiles/horses/5055/wings-sublieme/results/

From what I can see at Hoys, she lunged to the side towards the man standing there, who jumped to the side, which quite possibly caused BM to react in a harsher way than he would normally do with this mare, having seen how she reacts. I don't think it would take much for this mare to go over backwards, from what I see she is a very tricky ride.

I'm not playing devils advocate here but I personally can see different take on things and this lynch mob mentality is pretty shocking.


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## Amymay (15 October 2014)

Sorry, Cambrica - he hauled her.


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## cptrayes (15 October 2014)

amymay said:



			Sorry, Cambrica - he hauled her.
		
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This.

Also Cambrica, the panic 'turn and run' reaction I saw was, I thought,  from a horse that knew it was going to be punished for having stopped.  You first example sounds the same. Far from praising Ben for being able to calm her, I think you should be asking why she was so panicked in the first place.


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## Moomin1 (15 October 2014)

I'm not sure if I have missed some other footage, but the link I have seen is so far away I would say it's very difficult to judge exactly what happened.


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## cambrica (15 October 2014)

cptrayes said:



			This.

Also Cambrica, the panic 'turn and run' reaction I saw was, I thought,  from a horse that knew it was going to be punished for having stopped.  You first example sounds the same. Far from praising Ben for being able to calm her, I think you should be asking why she was so panicked in the first place.
		
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I agree she does panic when she refuses, as she did with Billy Twomey before Ben Maher rode her. See the videos on my link for Chantilly Prix France Galop and Grand Prix of Vienna, so did he also punish her? 
BM is a few feet away from a person that she could possibly run into. Could it not have been his gut reaction to avoid that scenario? I'm not saying I'm right here but I think there is much more to this than a sheer temper tantrum.


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## Illusion100 (16 October 2014)

cambrica said:



			I agree she does panic when she refuses, as she did with Billy Twomey before Ben Maher rode her. See the videos on my link for Chantilly Prix France Galop and Grand Prix of Vienna, so did he also punish her? 
BM is a few feet away from a person that she could possibly run into. Could it not have been his gut reaction to avoid that scenario? I'm not saying I'm right here but I think there is much more to this than a sheer temper tantrum.
		
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Yes of course a gut reaction would be to prevent a horse trampling a human. To cause a horse to fall over backwards seconds after being unable to make the distance to a fence is another matter.


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## Magister (16 October 2014)

fburton said:



			We wouldn't be disagreeing! Your criteria for "judicious use" are very sensible and practical, but apparently not everyone appreciates the importance of timing - e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRzH-bEIvSQ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU3XT0YEhh8,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wfq38NaGDU,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRq5FokvXz0,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wItxazviDLs - even if they are otherwise good riders.
		
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:-0 The third video down is jaw-dropping!


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## cambrica (16 October 2014)

Illusion100 said:



			Yes of course a gut reaction would be to prevent a horse trampling a human. To cause a horse to fall over backwards seconds after being unable to make the distance to a fence is another matter.
		
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Why she refused the jump is irrelevant, the fact is she did refuse it then ran out to the side directly towards the chap standing there. Would Ben Maher have pulled her back so harshly had the man not been there? That's the golden question, who knows. Judging by her reactions and nature to panic after refusing, even prior to BM riding her I couldn't imagine for one minute that they would want to get into a fight with her, quite the opposite. 
I've tried to watch the clip frame by frame. IMO, she ran towards the man, who jumped out of the way but not before BM 'hauled' her back, she carried on reining back whilst BM sat forward up her neck by which time her head was up in the air and her hind legs going from under her. 
I'm not defending BM, he means nothing to me whatsoever and if he's guilty then he deserves to be reprimanded but I can see it from a different point of view.


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## Illusion100 (16 October 2014)

cambrica said:



			Why she refused the jump is irrelevant, the fact is she did refuse it then ran out to the side directly towards the chap standing there. Would Ben Maher have pulled her back so harshly had the man not been there? That's the golden question, who knows. Judging by her reactions and nature to panic after refusing, even prior to BM riding her I couldn't imagine for one minute that they would want to get into a fight with her, quite the opposite. 
I've tried to watch the clip frame by frame. IMO, she ran towards the man, who jumped out of the way but not before BM 'hauled' her back, she carried on reining back whilst BM sat forward up her neck by which time her head was up in the air and her hind legs going from under her. 
I'm not defending BM, he means nothing to me whatsoever and if he's guilty then he deserves to be reprimanded but I can see it from a different point of view.
		
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The realm of rhetorical questions is fascinating and many could be raised with regards to this incident. 

IMO, the reason why the horse refused the fence is relevant, it couldn't make the distance and made a choice to refuse, horses are entitled to self-preservation. 

The Officials in the ring, particularly at prestigious events such as HOYS, are aware not to distract the competing combination and to stand clear in case of refusals/run-outs/dropping a leg/demolishing a fence.

Camera angles are deceiving, BM lost his temper. Other options to avoid potential obstacles, such as people, (I was taught early) is to steer left or right.


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## Clare85 (16 October 2014)

Illusion100 said:



			Other options to avoid potential obstacles, such as people, (I was taught early) is to steer left or right.
		
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Agreed. The most effective way to stop a horse in an emergency is to turn it's head. A horse bolted with me once after a dog jumped out at us from nowhere. We were heading towards a very busy dual carriage way. If I'd yanked backwards on the reins it wouldn't have had much effect. As it was I turned his head towards the verge and managed to pull up. IME, if a horse is panicking, no amount of hauling back on it's mouth would stop it. To me, the force BM used was not out of concern for the stewards - it looks like anger to me.


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## JCWHITE (16 October 2014)

Again I will state i saw this live, 
There was also a young lady standing with the man, and that BM videos were filming.
The take off stride was too far from the fence, to me, thats why the horse stopped.


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## exmoorponyprincess1 (16 October 2014)

IMO it's the silence that is deafening - had a statement been issued by Ben with an apology when this happened (because at the end of the day, people don't want to see a horse go over backwards in the international arena at Hoys regardless of "reason"!) then I don't think there would be this continued interest.  It's the fact that something wrong happened and heads appear to be buried in the sand - it leaves a bitter taste.


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## Summer pudding (16 October 2014)

exmoorponyprincess1 said:



			IMO it's the silence that is deafening - had a statement been issued by Ben with an apology when this happened (because at the end of the day, people don't want to see a horse go over backwards in the international arena at Hoys regardless of "reason"!) then I don't think there would be this continued interest.  It's the fact that something wrong happened and heads appear to be buried in the sand - it leaves a bitter taste.
		
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Sums it up beautifully.....


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## cptrayes (16 October 2014)

cambrica said:



			BM is a few feet away from a person that she could possibly run into. Could it not have been his gut reaction to avoid that scenario? I'm not saying I'm right here but I think there is much more to this than a sheer temper tantrum.
		
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cambrica said:



			Why she refused the jump is irrelevant, the fact is she did refuse it then ran out to the side directly towards the chap standing there. Would Ben Maher have pulled her back so harshly had the man not been there? That's the golden question, who knows. Judging by her reactions and nature to panic after refusing, even prior to BM riding her I couldn't imagine for one minute that they would want to get into a fight with her, quite the opposite. 
I've tried to watch the clip frame by frame. IMO, she ran towards the man, who jumped out of the way but not before BM 'hauled' her back, she carried on reining back whilst BM sat forward up her neck by which time her head was up in the air and her hind legs going from under her. 
I'm not defending BM, he means nothing to me whatsoever and if he's guilty then he deserves to be reprimanded but I can see it from a different point of view.
		
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Well I saw it live from a perfect side on view. There was never any danger of the horse trampling the official, he did not stand where he was until after the refusal had taken place. He had moved out to put th a fallen pole back up, I think. She was stopped  nose to nose with him when Ben Maher pulled her back in what looked like sheer temper. She was at the time immediately alongside the second fence of a two stride double and there was plenty of room to turn her instead, but he didn't.

Not only that, but he did it in two stages, she had already backed away from the official when he pulled even harder and yanked her over backwards/sideways. The first stage, in getting her out of the official's space, may have been just about excusable. The second stage looked like sheer temper, and was not.


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## cptrayes (16 October 2014)

exmoorponyprincess1 said:



			IMO it's the silence that is deafening - had a statement been issued by Ben with an apology when this happened (because at the end of the day, people don't want to see a horse go over backwards in the international arena at Hoys regardless of "reason"!) then I don't think there would be this continued interest.  It's the fact that something wrong happened and heads appear to be buried in the sand - it leaves a bitter taste.
		
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This.


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## Polos (16 October 2014)

pigsmight:) said:



			I feel that I have to post, I have seen the clip and agree that it probably isn't his finest moment, but is it acceptable to start a hate campaign against him? I felt uncomfortable reading this thred and comments made are personal and quite shocking. It never fails to supprise me how quickly people are prepared to venomously attack an individual on here.
		
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You see I'm on the fence with this matter and I'll probably get shot down for what I'm going to say due to the nature of this forum but life goes on! 

Yes what he did, you may not consider to be acceptable but are you all really qualified to sit here and start a witch hunt? The reason I am not commenting on this matter is because I have never ridden the horse and I do not know how it would react to things (some are just overly sensitive and would overreact to the smallest things), from what I saw in the video (was hard to. See as the quality isn't great) he have a sharp pull (perhaps sharper than most) and the horse just reversed backwards and got his legs in a bit of a tangle, to me it didn't look like he purposely haul the horse over. 

If you lot think what he did was absolutely awful then what about your hate campaign? Is that perfectly acceptable then? You are all essentially setting out to ruin this mans livelihood and any possible future business dealings. How would you like it if a bunch of strangers on the internet decided to set out and ruin your life and ring up your employer(s) and fabricate lies and complain so much that you lost your job. Chances are you wouldn't like it and would probably end up not being able to pay for horses therefore meaning not only have you lost your job and are struggling financially but you have just lost your livelihood too. 

Before you lot take this campaign to ruin this mans business and livelihood any further, just think how you'd like it if hoards of hormonal woman of the internet set out to purposely ruin your life and take away away everything you'd worked so hard to achieve. Think how you'd like it to have the press publishing these fabricated (half of you have said you've heard things from a friend of a friend.....) allegations and making a fool out of you. 

Now I'm 99.9%, actually no wait 100% sure that I'm going to get pulled apart for saying this (probably get a few unnecessary insults and comments-yay!) but what you lot are doing is no better, if not worse than what he did. You are all bein really pathetic and taking it to the extreme. Apologies if this has already been said but I can't be bothered to read through any more of this ridiculous and frankly unnecessary witch hunt


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## cptrayes (16 October 2014)

exmoorponyprincess1 said:



			IMO it's the silence that is deafening - had a statement been issued by Ben with an apology when this happened (because at the end of the day, people don't want to see a horse go over backwards in the international arena at Hoys regardless of "reason"!) then I don't think there would be this continued interest.  It's the fact that something wrong happened and heads appear to be buried in the sand - it leaves a bitter taste.
		
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In the light of the post above, number 280, worth repeating, I think.


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## *hic* (16 October 2014)

Polos, you wouldn't get pulled apart by me for it. There were experienced officials watching that round, it was videoed, those people on the ground who have had the benefit of watching the video are in a far better place to judge what happened, why it happened and have input into what should be done about it. In view of the audience video (I'm surprised only one has surfaced) and the outcry I'd have thought some statement was in order, even if only to say that the evidence has been viewed, and that in the opinion of the Ground Jury following conference with the rider appropriate action has been taken together with something from BM along the lines of his having taken action he felt was appropriate in the heat of the moment which he accepts may have been unnecessary having resulted in the horse losing its footing.


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## Clare85 (16 October 2014)

At the end of the day, this is a forum full of horse lovers. If someone is seen to be treating a horse cruelly then of course people will be up in arms about it. BM should have released a statement by now and publicly apologised for behaving like this. His silence speaks volumes - and even more so the deleting of comments about the incident from his FB page. Of course that will anger people, most of the comments were simply asking for an explanation and by deleting them he is trying to brush the issue under the carpet, giving the impression that he thinks pulling a horse over backwards in temper is acceptable.

Why would people then just leave it? The potential suffering of equines is not something to be just left alone because your worried about someone's reputation and the effects negative press will have on their career. If he has nothing to be ashamed of then he should come out and say "sorry, it was a momentary loss of control, I would never normally treat a horse in that way, it will never happen again". His silence is saying "you lot can fudge off, I've done nothing wrong and I'll just be carrying along my merry way thanks very much". 

IMO he is committing his own PR suicide by allowing this issue to rumble on.


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## Polos (16 October 2014)

pigsmight:) said:



			I feel that I have to post, I have seen the clip and agree that it probably isn't his finest moment, but is it acceptable to start a hate campaign against him? I felt uncomfortable reading this thred and comments made are personal and quite shocking. It never fails to supprise me how quickly people are prepared to venomously attack an individual on 


cptrayes said:



			In the light of the post above, number 280, worth repeating, I think.
		
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Sorry, didn't actually realise he hadn't posted a statement to explain the incident. I'd assumed he had but I'm not actually on Facebook so didn't check. Can see why people are getting annoyed about it now!
		
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## ester (16 October 2014)

It wouldn't took much to say that the over reacted to his reversing aid but is now fine .

That and not annoying people by 'tidying up' your facebook page.


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## Elf On A Shelf (16 October 2014)

I see the H&H have omitted this disaster from any of their HOYS reports this week! 

Do you think he has put out a gag on the media?


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## bakewell (16 October 2014)

EKW said:



			I see the H&H have omitted this disaster from any of their HOYS reports this week! 

Do you think he has put out a gag on the media?
		
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Mhmmm well, the incident with his owners/ other assault charge shows he is prepared to go to court. He does have significant financial backing. I wouldn't print what could be considered defamatory information in their position either. It would have financial and legal implications. They could have shown a photo of the incident of course.

Look at how Jock Paget's name got dragged through the mud, even though he was cleared and public opinion was in his favour... that will always taint him. Not the same amount of money in 3DE though is there....


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## asommerville (16 October 2014)

He's posted a statement now on Facebook


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## RunToEarth (16 October 2014)

From FB:




			&#8220;The incident with my horse at HOYS last week was most unfortunate. However the allegations that my actions were reprehensible and indeed reprimanded are quite without foundation and by the FEI&#8217;s enquiry, they have been vindicated. The welfare of my horses is always paramount and I wish to make it clear that I have the fullest respect for my horses and their owners, the governing bodies of the sport and the Ground Jury members at HOYS. The FEI has issued a statement clarifying its position for which I am grateful and as always, I wish to thank all those who run the sport, my sponsors and owners for their support.&#8221; 
Ben Maher

 FEI Statement
&#8220;The FEI Secretary General has now investigated the incident concerning Ben Maher at the CSI3* Birmingham (GBR), which was addressed by officials at the time. He has clearly established that no reprimand, no warning nor any other sanction has been imposed on Ben Maher. On behalf of the FEI he apologises for the inconvenience an earlier statement from FEI Headquarters might have caused for the athlete and his entourage.&#8221;
		
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The comments defending him are actually quite stupid and I would only hope from his "teenage" following, who hopefully don't copy his *****ty attitude towards his horses.


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## paddi22 (16 October 2014)

Polos said:



			Before you lot take this campaign to ruin this mans business and livelihood any further, just think how you'd like it if hoards of hormonal woman of the internet set out to purposely ruin your life and take away away everything you'd worked so hard to achieve.
		
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i don't even know where to go with this comment...it just depresses me when men comment like this in this day and age. amazingly patronising and sexist.


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## cptrayes (16 October 2014)

So he didn't even get a slap on the wrist, and he makes a statement saying he did nothing wrong. Sorry Ben, I saw you drag that horse over backwards. You may not consider that reprehensible, but I do.


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## bakewell (16 October 2014)

Oooof bad statement. I take it he wrote that himself.

Also ffs FEI "I know we said we'd told him off, but we didn't. And now we can't because we already look like idiots". Nice work guys.


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## caramac (16 October 2014)

So was he or was he not reprimanded by the FEI ?


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## Polos (16 October 2014)

paddi22 said:



			i don't even know where to go with this comment...it just depresses me when men comment like this in this day and age. amazingly patronising and sexist.
		
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I am a woman...... Not sure where you'd get the idea that I'm a man?!


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## RunToEarth (16 October 2014)

Polos said:



			I am a woman...... Not sure where you'd get the idea that I'm a man?!
		
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Perhaps from your incredibly patronising description of women, who may or may not be hormonal. Honestly, if anyone can legitimately defend Ben Maher's choice of riding aids after that refusal, then go ahead, but don't call everyone who thinks he is an idiot hormonal. 

Put simply - would you send your horse to him, having seen how he treats his horses, and having read his statement on facebook, absolving himself of any wrongdoing?


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## fburton (16 October 2014)

LittleRocketRider said:



			[Content removed]
		
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LittleRocketRider, hearsay is not admissible in court! I must instruct the jury to disregard that statement.


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## blackandwhite (16 October 2014)

It is truly frightening that there are people out there who think that's what rein back looks like. It's a wonder our competition venues aren't littered with dressage horses all over the floor!


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## bakewell (16 October 2014)

LittleRocketRider said:



			[Content removed]
		
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Public opinion and personal opinion are very different, also it's not a case of good v bad, more relating to a specific incident. He publicly conducted himself well, his statements were very well written, timed and judged. I would say his handling of the situation was exemplary.


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## Sebastian (16 October 2014)

caramac said:



			So was he or was he not reprimanded by the FEI ?
		
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FEI Statement
&#8220;The FEI Secretary General has now investigated the incident concerning Ben Maher at the CSI3* Birmingham (GBR), which was addressed by officials at the time. He has clearly established that no reprimand, no warning nor any other sanction has been imposed on Ben Maher. On behalf of the FEI he apologises for the inconvenience an earlier statement from FEI Headquarters might have caused for the athlete and his entourage.&#8221;

We were going to, but then changed our minds because of [xxxxxxxxxx] and now we will wait for the whole thing to hush over.


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## Pennythetank (16 October 2014)

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if I am repeating someone else... but I made a complaint to the FEI and received this back:

The FEI Secretary General has now investigated the incident concerning Ben Maher at the CSI3* Birmingham (GBR), which was addressed by officials at the time. He has clearly established that no reprimand, no warning nor any other sanction has been imposed on Ben Maher. On behalf of the FEI he apologises for the inconvenience an earlier statement from FEI Headquarters might have caused for the athlete and his entourage.

With best regards,

Corporate Communications
Fédération Equestre Internationale
Chemin de la Joliette 8
1006 Lausanne
Switzerland
Shocking to think that he hasnt even gotten a slap on the wrist for what he did...


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## exmoorponyprincess1 (16 October 2014)

Can't believe what I have just read! So glad I am not involved in show jumping...what a croc of **** both of those statements are!


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## JCWHITE (16 October 2014)

cptrayes said:



			So he didn't even get a slap on the wrist, and he makes a statement saying he did nothing wrong. Sorry Ben, I saw you drag that horse over backwards. You may not consider that reprehensible, but I do.
		
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I saw the horse go over backwards too. Shocking.


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## Spring Feather (16 October 2014)

I was not going to get involved in this discussion but having read his statement on his FB page, I have to say the arrogance and smugness with which it is written is not becoming of anyone.


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## smellsofhorse (16 October 2014)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=744560142247627&id=216341001736213


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## fburton (16 October 2014)

Was there an official video made at the event? If so, it would show more clearly exactly what happened. I would be interested to see this if it exists. And if it supports Ben Maher's case, maybe he will be pressing for an excerpt to be released.


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## caramac (16 October 2014)

And all the negative comments being removed from his fb page again so it looks as if he is just getting lots of praise and good luck wishes !  Do they really think people are so stupid that we don't know its happening sigh


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## Bojingles (16 October 2014)

Dear oh dear, what a disgrace. Ben Maher's semi-literate statement is arrogant in the extreme and as for the FEI's backtracking...not a great day for the sport!


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## Cheshire Chestnut (16 October 2014)

I've just this minute got the same email back! So they think it's an ok way to treat a horse?? Disappointing from all involved - the FEI, HOYS, judges and then Ben Maher himself.


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## Munchkin (16 October 2014)

Good God, there are some ridiculous people on this forum.

When you've all had a minor misunderstanding with a het up, over-sensitive, mid-tantrum warmblood show jumper (labelled 'crazy' before Ben got his hands on it, FTR), then you may be in a position to judge.

Interesting that everyone I know who was actually THERE agrees this was nothing but a mid-strop horse falling over its own feet when the rider firmly reined it back after a stop.


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## Wizzkid (16 October 2014)

It's so disappointing but not unexpected


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## cptrayes (16 October 2014)

Munchkin said:



			Good God, there are some ridiculous people on this forum.

When you've all had a minor misunderstanding with a het up, over-sensitive, mid-tantrum warmblood show jumper (labelled 'crazy' before Ben got his hands on it, FTR), then you may be in a position to judge.

Interesting that everyone I know who was actually THERE agrees this was nothing but a mid-strop horse falling over its own feet when the rider firmly reined it back after a stop.
		
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I was actually there with a perfect view. I saw a man in a temper punish a horse who had refused by yanking her in the teeth with a long shank bit until she fell over backwards. She did NOT just get her legs in a muddle.


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## doriangrey (16 October 2014)

I have to admit that from the vid I couldn't tell clearly what went on.  I am a bit surprised to hear that the FEI have denied that he has received a reprimand despite an earlier released statement that he had.  So, he did - but then he didn't.  What's all that about?


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## RunToEarth (16 October 2014)

Munchkin said:



			Good God, there are some ridiculous people on this forum.
		
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Some people would say you were the ridiculous one tbh...




			When you've all had a minor misunderstanding with a het up, over-sensitive, mid-tantrum warmblood show jumper (labelled 'crazy' before Ben got his hands on it, FTR), then you may be in a position to judge.

Interesting that everyone I know who was actually THERE agrees this was nothing but a mid-strop horse falling over its own feet when the rider firmly reined it back after a stop.
		
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 I was also there, and disagree - it was not the horse upturning itself. 

I think the behaviour promotes bad riding in the sport and don't support the FEIs position, interestingly enough there are other people feel the same.


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## conniegirl (16 October 2014)

I've sat on many powerful, nervey, over sensitive, het up and even paniced warmbloods, arabs and other horses (comes from rehabbing problem horses, including those that proffesionals have said need shooting) and never once has it ever crossed my mind to pull one over on itself or for that matter rein it back as its somewhat counter productive to make one go backwards when you actualy need it to go forwards.

I have had one go over on itself despite me doing everything to just sit still and get him back on all 4 feet (he went up because he had been stung by a wasp) I ended in hospital, the horse fractured his pelvis which is very common when horses go over backwards, thankfully horse survived the injury (many dont) and came back into full work, but he was not a showjumper, an injury like that would have been career ending for a serious showjumping horse!

It was cruel, unessecary and down right dangerous for both him and the horse.
Have now lost all faith in the FEI.


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## JCWHITE (16 October 2014)

fburton said:



			Was there an official video made at the event? If so, it would show more clearly exactly what happened. I would be interested to see this if it exists. And if it supports Ben Maher's case, maybe he will be pressing for an excerpt to be released.
		
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As I have stated, BM Videos were filming.
My reply from the hoys press office was along the lines from the FEI.


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## Amymay (16 October 2014)

Munchkin said:



			..... falling over its own feet when the rider  firmly reined it back after a stop.
		
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Ah, so that's how you rein back.


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## Bustermartin (16 October 2014)

amymay said:



			Ah, so that's how you rein back.
		
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Note to self - must yank harder in future 'cos that's how the 'pros' do it!

Another one who has totally lost all faith in the FEI - very sad and unsatisfactory all round.


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## twiggy2 (16 October 2014)

Munchkin said:



			Good God, there are some ridiculous people on this forum.

When you've all had a minor misunderstanding with a het up, over-sensitive, mid-tantrum warmblood show jumper (labelled 'crazy' before Ben got his hands on it, FTR), then you may be in a position to judge.

Interesting that everyone I know who was actually THERE agrees this was nothing but a mid-strop horse falling over its own feet when the rider firmly reined it back after a stop.
		
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many of us have sat on horses like that, I ride a horse like that at least twice a week at work and because he is like that I am particularly sensitive as a rider when I am on board.

do you rein back by socking a horse in the teeth with a lump of metal? cos I know I don't,


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## PolarSkye (16 October 2014)

Munchkin said:



			Good God, there are some ridiculous people on this forum.

When you've all had a minor misunderstanding with a het up, over-sensitive, mid-tantrum warmblood show jumper (labelled 'crazy' before Ben got his hands on it, FTR), then you may be in a position to judge.
		
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Actually, I have . . . Kali's default when stressed is to rear and then pivot/spin (at speed) . . . he's done it with me (on a road with traffic behind/in front of me) and with both of his jockeys . . . it is neither fun nor funny . . . but I can pretty much guarantee that asking for rein back from a horse whose "go to" is to rear is a recipe for disaster . . . as proved by this rather unedifying display by Ben Maher.  Showjumpers like rein back because it sits the horse on its hocks . . . rearers are already sitting on their hocks and are very good at tipping their pelvises and going up as an evasion . . . a horse that naturally "backward" should be sent forward, forward, forward.

Yes, I have experience with stroppy, hyper sensitive WB types - I own one - but I'm not at the top of ANY equestrian discipline and neither are either of his competition jockeys . . . I sort of expected more from BM, tbh.

P


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## claracanter (16 October 2014)

Have a look at this. HE's getting an apology from FEI now

This thread gets a mention though

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...pping-incident-at-Horse-of-the-Year-Show.html


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## doriangrey (16 October 2014)

That's pretty good PR.  He gets an apology for causing the horse to come over backwards (whatever the reason).


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## bakewell (16 October 2014)

doriangrey said:



			That's pretty good PR.  He gets an apology for causing the horse to come over backwards (whatever the reason).
		
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Yes, but his "flipping incident" (!) video is on the Telegraph website. Worth more than all the words.


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## Clare85 (16 October 2014)

I'm just at a loss with this whole thing! I've watched the video a number of times and you can clearly see him hauling and hauling on that horse's mouth until she goes over. I just don't understand why he has been allowed to get away with it. Shame on Ben Maher, shame on HOYS and shame on the FEI. Disgusting!


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## Honey08 (16 October 2014)

I've never been totally sure what happened from what you can see from the video, but it's the facts that people's Facebook comments and questions regarding the incident were not replied to and were deleted, and that there was no official comments from any of the organisations involved.  Had HOYS or Ben Maher bothered to release a statement of their opinion of what happened and what they concluded, rather than treating the concerned public as hysterical fluffy bunnies whose opinions don't matter, this may well have calmed down immediately.  As things stand, it has been handled with arrogance and left a bad feeling among people who usually enjoy HOYS.


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## amandaco2 (16 October 2014)

Hormonal women of the internet?!
Odd no other footage has appeared, you'd think they would get the clear up close video released asap to show hes done nothing wrong (!)


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## madmav (16 October 2014)

The horse refused, it appeared to be heading towards an official. Rider puts on emergency brake to avoid collision. He over does it and the horse falls. The video isn't clear. You can't condemn the rider on that. But you can condemn him for a big fail on how the ensuing row has been handled.


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## Landcruiser (16 October 2014)

Reading the posts on his fb page you'd think the sun shone out of his backside! It makes my blood boil. Hauling a horse backwards by the bit as "punishment" is very bad horsemanship at best and cruelty and abuse at worst. I have no further time for this person.


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## Lexi_ (16 October 2014)

Didn't someone earlier in this thread get a reply to their complaint which stated that he *had* been given a reprimand? Yet now he hasn't? Confused!


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## cptrayes (16 October 2014)

madmav said:



			The horse refused, it appeared to be heading towards an official. Rider puts on emergency brake to avoid collision. He over does it and the horse falls. The video isn't clear. You can't condemn the rider on that. But you can condemn him for a big fail on how the ensuing row has been handled.
		
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madmav said:



			The horse refused, it appeared to be heading towards an official. Rider puts on emergency brake to avoid collision. He over does it and the horse falls. The video isn't clear. You can't condemn the rider on that. But you can condemn him for a big fail on how the ensuing row has been handled.
		
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You can actually see what I saw from quite close and directly alongside. He takes a pull to stop the horse running into the official and she moves back, then he pulls again, hard, and she goes over backwards.  It was a two stage thing, and I can assure you that from up close it looked exactly as if the second stage was done in temper. The horse was in a long shank bit with very heavy poll pressure if the rein was pulled.
An American gag, I think.


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## Jach (17 October 2014)

My first ever post on this forum but had to join to agree with the majority. Awful horsemanship, no regard for his horse's welfare. My daughter regularly competed against BM on ponies and I never saw this type of behaviour, however, I was more naive then so maybe didn't notice. Used to admire BM, no more, his silence and one patronising statement on this incident speaks volumes.


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## JCWHITE (17 October 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You can actually see what I saw from quite close and directly alongside. He takes a pull to stop the horse running into the official and she moves back, then he pulls again, hard, and she goes over backwards.  It was a two stage thing, and I can assure you that from up close it looked exactly as if the second stage was done in temper. The horse was in a long shank bit with very heavy poll pressure if the rein was pulled.
An American gag, I think.
		
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This is what I saw too, I think the crowd were too stunned to react.


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## Amymay (17 October 2014)

Lexi_ said:



			Didn't someone earlier in this thread get a reply to their complaint which stated that he *had* been given a reprimand? Yet now he hasn't? Confused!
		
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He was reprimanded, but as formal procedures weren't followed (ie BM wasn't informed that he was receiving a reprimand), it was recinded.


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## Bustermartin (17 October 2014)

Yes - this passage in the Telegraph makes Amymays comment quite clear

'The FEI announced on Wednesday that Maher met FEI officials after the incident, but that due to a procedural error "from a legal perspective it cannot therefore be considered as an official warning or reprimand". The FEI said Maher had not been informed this was an official warning.'  

I take from this that the FEI are aware that he should have been given a warning, but that, due to their mistakes, they were unable to do so.

I only hope that Mr Maher realises he has overstepped the mark and will not let it happen again either in public or at home...


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## Lexi_ (17 October 2014)

Ahhh thanks for the clarification amymay and Bustermartin.

FEI not exactly showing themselves in their finest light, yet again.


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## onemoretime (17 October 2014)

I spoke to someone who lives close by to me and who's other half is a senior BS judge and they have tried to make light of it by saying that the horse just freaked out and that it was not nearly as bad as everyone WHO SAW IT has been making out.  I have only seen the video clip but it looked pretty nasty to me and I would not want to see any horse of mine being ridden in that way.  The officials are playing it down no doubt because he is a high profile rider.


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## Dobermann Girl (17 October 2014)

Ben Maher you treat your "Fans" with a contempt they do not deserve. We have been named "pony patters".  Fluffy bunnies ect. You do not deserve their loyalty. I'm sure most deservedly you have lost their respect.


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## cptrayes (17 October 2014)

Dobermann Girl said:



			Ben Maher you treat your "Fans" with a contempt they do not deserve. We have been named "pony patters".  Fluffy bunnies ect. You do not deserve their loyalty. I'm sure most deservedly you have lost their respect.
		
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*ME* a pony patter?!?!?  What a patronising man. Three of us went. Three of us had a perfect view of what he did. Three of us gasped. Three of us have no problem with hitting a horse if we think it will achieve the result we need, nor, in an emergency, hauling its back teeth out to keep a human safe.

Man up Ben, admit you were wrong.


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## nicolenlolly (17 October 2014)

I'm happy to be a "pony patter" and have a clear conscience at night that I have not in any way hurt my horses or behaved in a way that might negatively influence my children


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## Clare85 (17 October 2014)

nicolenlolly said:



			I'm happy to be a "pony patter" and have a clear conscience at night that I have not in any way hurt my horses or behaved in a way that might negatively influence my children 

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This! My Mum watched the video and said that she thought it looked like a child having a tantrum. She told me that if she had ever seen me behave like that as a child she would've dragged me off my horse and not allowed me to ride again.


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## madmav (17 October 2014)

Fair play to you cptrayes if you witnessed it. Then he has done wrong. I was just making the point that he shouldn't be condemned on a not very clear video. Saddened that he has done that. Thought better of him. Poor horse.



cptrayes said:



			You can actually see what I saw from quite close and directly alongside. He takes a pull to stop the horse running into the official and she moves back, then he pulls again, hard, and she goes over backwards.  It was a two stage thing, and I can assure you that from up close it looked exactly as if the second stage was done in temper. The horse was in a long shank bit with very heavy poll pressure if the rein was pulled.
An American gag, I think.
		
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## Jach (17 October 2014)

Clare85 said:



			This! My Mum watched the video and said that she thought it looked like a child having a tantrum. She told me that if she had ever seen me behave like that as a child she would've dragged me off my horse and not allowed me to ride again.
		
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I agree with your mum! If I had ever witnessed my daughters treating their ponies this way I would have done the same! I would drag them off even now if I saw them treat their horses in such an abusive manner...my daughters are 30 and 37! Never an excuse in the situation BM was in...in a dire emergency maybe but it would have to be life or death. Should have been booed out of the arena.


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## Echo Bravo (17 October 2014)

But it has been said No Reprimand from the higher ups, says a lot don't you think, well payed cushy jobs they don't want that to end. Pity the owners of the horse cann't see what he did  was really bad for the horse and the sport they say they support, face it, it all comes down to money and plenty of, that is why I no longer watch Show Jumping, lost interest when Harvey Smith let one of his old horses go through a meat market and it had won a lot of money for him in it's past


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## fburton (18 October 2014)

madmav said:



			Fair play to you cptrayes if you witnessed it. Then he has done wrong.
		
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Hang on - opinions differ. Munchkin wrote: "Interesting that everyone I know who was actually THERE agrees this was nothing but a mid-strop horse falling over its own feet when the rider firmly reined it back after a stop." Maybe they had a better view; maybe a worse one. Maybe it's different interpretations based on different backgrounds/prejudices. Maybe we're _all_ ridiculous people to a greater or lesser degree - who knows!


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## honetpot (18 October 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			But it has been said No Reprimand from the higher ups, says a lot don't you think, well payed cushy jobs they don't want that to end. Pity the owners of the horse cann't see what he did  was really bad for the horse and the sport they say they support, face it, it all comes down to money and plenty of, that is why I no longer watch Show Jumping, lost interest when Harvey Smith let one of his old horses go through a meat market and it had won a lot of money for him in it's past 

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 I was a child in the 70's and spent most of my time watching the top riders take out their young horses out at local shows, and was thoroughly sickened by what I saw. At the time these were my hero's that I watched on TV, it stopped me watching it as I could not work out how it equated to the 'real life' that I saw. There is more money in it now so I think the need to be seen to do well and help sell the expensive pieces of kit  takes over even more.


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## JCWHITE (18 October 2014)

fburton said:



			Hang on - opinions differ. Munchkin wrote: "Interesting that everyone I know who was actually THERE agrees this was nothing but a mid-strop horse falling over its own feet when the rider firmly reined it back after a stop." Maybe they had a better view; maybe a worse one. Maybe it's different interpretations based on different backgrounds/prejudices. Maybe we're _all_ ridiculous people to a greater or lesser degree - who knows!
		
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I was there and dont agree with the above. I have had a reply from the hoys press office who sent me the FEI version.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (18 October 2014)

Has anyone just received an 'infraction at Horse and Hound Forums' message?


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## Holly Hocks (18 October 2014)

EquiEquestrian556 said:



			Has anyone just received an 'infraction at Horse and Hound Forums' message?
		
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I got one the other day.  Consider it a badge of honour.   You're not a proper member til you get an infraction.  Bit like not being a real rider til you've had a few falls.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (18 October 2014)

I've already had a few advisory notices for too large a signature :'P


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## Wagtail (18 October 2014)

Yes, just received one now for a post made a few days ago on this thread.


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## Sandstone1 (18 October 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Yes, just received one now for a post made a few days ago on this thread.
		
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Me too!


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## bakewell (18 October 2014)

I'm not sure handing out infractions for criticism is a particularly persuasive way of putting your point across. Perhaps it adds a bit of weight to those accusations.


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## AdorableAlice (18 October 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Yes, just received one now for a post made a few days ago on this thread.
		
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And me, five points no idea what that means.  Oh well, he got away with abuse and we get criticised for noticing.


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## Tinypony (18 October 2014)

I got one two.  Not bad going on a very short post.  I can't quite see how what I said went against any of their t+c's, but I guess someone's been jumping up and down.  Not a problem, it's only a forum.

But... I would like to repeat an earlier question, which doesn't comment on Mr Showjumper in any way, shape or form - 

"Incidentally, why would a horse get a quick tap and circle when it did nothing wrong? Why not just a circle?"


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## Honey08 (19 October 2014)

HOYS in general sounded one big mess, from threads that were written about it on here.

A show jumper giving an unpleasant display of riding (as mildly as I can put it), a hunter rearing and misbehaving, yet still being placed, then it turns out the rider is a judge, and pushy parents spoiling the children's show jumping class by being loud and unsporting.  

I can't say it's sold it for me ever visiting it.


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## cptrayes (19 October 2014)

Honey08 said:



			HOYS in general sounded one big mess, from threads that were written about it on here.

A show jumper giving an unpleasant display of riding (as mildly as I can put it), a hunter rearing and misbehaving, yet still being placed, then it turns out the rider is a judge, and pushy parents spoiling the children's show jumping class by being loud and unsporting.  

I can't say it's sold it for me ever visiting it.
		
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I saw the first two.

But I also saw fantastic freestyle Inter I dressage by eight top class horses, a great speed class with the exception of Mr Maher, a fantastic five fence challenge, had really decent food at really acceptable prices,  laughed my head off at the scurry pony pairs and their turnouts - (flashing wheels !!! )  And had fun shopping in a village with plenty of space (unlike Olympia).

It was well worth the ticket price on the Friday


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## MerrySherryRider (19 October 2014)

Just had an email from one of Maher's sponsors, who sell shavings.  They have had a word with Maher and are quite satisfied with his response. WTF ?? 

Just as well I haven't done my winter order for bedding yet. Looks like I'll be finding a different brand, which isn't difficult as I can find cheaper/better elsewhere.


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## Amicus (19 October 2014)

Tinypony said:



			But... I would like to repeat an earlier question, which doesn't comment on Mr Showjumper in any way, shape or form - 

"Incidentally, why would a horse get a quick tap and circle when it did nothing wrong? Why not just a circle?"
		
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Being generous to the poster who suggested it, maybe a quick tap intended to regain focus rather than as a punishment. 

Not entirely sure though as I don't think it'd work for my boy!


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## *sprinkles* (21 October 2014)

Haven't read all replies so not sure if someone has mentioned this ... I can understand that perhaps it appears excessive force was used but this certainly wasn't a result of "temper" on Ben Maher's part - you can see in the video that there was an arena steward standing very near to where the horse was headed after turning sharply following the refusal. Ben clearly goes to pull the horse up rather smartly to avoid trampling the guy, the horse turned at the same time and lost his balance. Yes, there were probably other ways to have handled this but I really do not see this as cruelty or poor sportsmanship rather a decision made in the heat of the moment to avoid an accident. Maybe not the best judgement call, but certainly with an intent to avoid harm not cause it.


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## Illusion100 (21 October 2014)

I still think at least a yellow card was warranted. I just can't get my head around someone being a steward at HOYS but hasn't the experience, common sense or self-preservation to get out of the way if a horse is heading directly towards them. The steward didn't look like he felt in harms way at all, so no need for BM to take the horses back teeth out, twice.

I'm also sure BM didn't get on this horse for the first time at HOYS, he will have known the horses 'difficult' temperament and that it may be volatile in such a charged atmosphere. Therefore best not to pour fuel on the fire if things go wrong, which is exactly IMO what he did, he handled the horse inappropriately and the FEI should have penalised, not backtracked due to an inexplicable reason (however money talks).


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## LittleRooketRider (21 October 2014)

Illusion100 said:



			I still think at least a yellow card was warranted. I just can't get my head around someone being a steward at HOYS but hasn't the experience, common sense or self-preservation to get out of the way if a horse is heading directly towards them. The steward didn't look like he felt in harms way at all, so no need for BM to take the horses back teeth out, twice.

I'm also sure BM didn't get on this horse for the first time at HOYS, he will have known the horses 'difficult' temperament and that it may be volatile in such a charged atmosphere. Therefore best not to pour fuel on the fire if things go wrong, which is exactly IMO what he did, he handled the horse inappropriately and the FEI should have penalised, not backtracked due to an inexplicable reason (however money talks).
		
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I agree he behaved in poorly and I agree with him deserving some form of punishment..BUT i think to say he KNEW the horse would be volatile is a little unfair as we all know horses are unpredictable animals as they are animals.

Not that this excuses him at all..and i don't want to sart a nitpicking argument just thinking and typing without filter


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## LittleRooketRider (21 October 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			Me too!
		
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and me


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## Sandstone1 (21 October 2014)

Funny BM got away with it and we all got a slap on the wrist for daring to air our views!


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## cptrayes (21 October 2014)

*sprinkles* said:



			Haven't read all replies so not sure if someone has mentioned this ... I can understand that perhaps it appears excessive force was used but this certainly wasn't a result of "temper" on Ben Maher's part - you can see in the video that there was an arena steward standing very near to where the horse was headed after turning sharply following the refusal. Ben clearly goes to pull the horse up rather smartly to avoid trampling the guy, the horse turned at the same time and lost his balance. Yes, there were probably other ways to have handled this but I really do not see this as cruelty or poor sportsmanship rather a decision made in the heat of the moment to avoid an accident. Maybe not the best judgement call, but certainly with an intent to avoid harm not cause it.
		
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I'm sorry, but I was there in the flesh with a direct view and the second pull looked EXACTLY like it was done in temper.  The horse had already backed off the official and he had space to turn her at that point but he certainly appeared to haul her backward off balance.


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## Illusion100 (21 October 2014)

LittleRocketRider said:



			I agree he behaved in poorly and I agree with him deserving some form of punishment..BUT i think to say he KNEW the horse would be volatile is a little unfair as we all know horses are unpredictable animals as they are animals.

Not that this excuses him at all..and i don't want to sart a nitpicking argument just thinking and typing without filter 

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I did say 'may be volatile' under the circumstances, not that he knew it would!  

He is at the top of his game on seasoned horses (at this level). This will not have been the first time a horse has refused with him, I would have liked to have seen a more dignified and sporting attitude. I'm a fan of Eventing and if Mark Todd (any other world class rider) did this, I would be appalled. They should know better (I hope!).


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## vanrim (21 October 2014)

I have a feeling that if a top dressage rider had done this there would be outrage and the rider would have been reprimanded.


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## alliersv1 (21 October 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			Funny BM got away with it and we all got a slap on the wrist for daring to air our views!
		
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Indeed! I just noticed I got one too, and a warning. Oh well.


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## Wagtail (21 October 2014)

Yep, the whole thing has been ridiculous.


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## fburton (21 October 2014)

Yes, and there are some ridiculous people on this forum! (allegedly)


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## *sprinkles* (21 October 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I'm sorry, but I was there in the flesh with a direct view and the second pull looked EXACTLY like it was done in temper.  The horse had already backed off the official and he had space to turn her at that point but he certainly appeared to haul her backward off balance.
		
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Well I apologise and I guess you know best seeing it close up and all. I'm certainly now convinced that an experienced professional would behave this way in front of a huge crowd for pretty much zero reason, not to mention that he would have the strength to pull a horse right over backward ...


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## *sprinkles* (21 October 2014)

Illusion100 said:



			I still think at least a yellow card was warranted. I just can't get my head around someone being a steward at HOYS but hasn't the experience, common sense or self-preservation to get out of the way if a horse is heading directly towards them. The steward didn't look like he felt in harms way at all, so no need for BM to take the horses back teeth out, twice.
		
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People can be as unpredictable as horses !!


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## Illusion100 (21 October 2014)

*sprinkles* said:



			People can be as unpredictable as horses !!
		
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And that's relevant to the BM HOYS incident how exactly?

Also, you don't need to use strength to cause a horse to fall over backwards.


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## fburton (21 October 2014)

Illusion100 said:



			Also, you don't need to use strength to cause a horse to fall over backwards.
		
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No, I have inadvertently pushed two horses over in my lifetime trying to get them to back up - one a NF mare, the other a TB yearling.


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## Illusion100 (21 October 2014)

fburton said:



			No, I have inadvertently pushed two horses over in my lifetime trying to get them to back up - one a NF mare, the other a TB yearling.
		
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Sorry, your post can be read two ways. No, as in you do need strength to cause a horse to go over or, No, you don't?


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## fburton (21 October 2014)

Illusion100 said:



			Sorry, your post can be read two ways. No, as in you do need strength to cause a horse to go over or, No, you don't?
		
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Yes, I realized that after it was too late to edit. I meant "Indeed, ...", i.e. I was agreeing with you. Sorry for the confusion.


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## cptrayes (21 October 2014)

*sprinkles* said:



			Well I apologise and I guess you know best seeing it close up and all. I'm certainly now convinced that an experienced professional would behave this way in front of a huge crowd for pretty much zero reason, not to mention that he would have the strength to pull a horse right over backward ...
		
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Strength is not needed on a lightweight, sensitive horse wearing an American gag bit, especially not when you are in a temper.


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## Illusion100 (21 October 2014)

fburton said:



			Yes, I realized that after it was too late to edit. I meant "Indeed, ...", i.e. I was agreeing with you. Sorry for the confusion.
		
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Haha, no worries.


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## conniegirl (21 October 2014)

strength is not needed to pull a horse over backwards. My lad was 15hh, I'm 5ft3 and weigh very little, he was in a snaffle bridle and I was not attempting to do anything other than sit tight and wait for him to come down, unfortunatly my shift in weight (significantly less than BM's weight) pulled him over.
Rearing horses are extremely unstable, a shift in you weight, a slight shift of thier neck etc will pull them over. Its one reason why known rearers should never go sidesaddle as your weight being where it is will pull them almost every time.

Horse reacted to the pain in its mouth from an americal gag (with long shanks) by going backwards, when backwards was blocked by a forcefull leg aid the horse went up, because BM was hauling on the reins already the horse shifted ts neck backwards to avoid more pain, the sift in its neck shifted its weight and the weight of BM and over they went!


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## Polar Bear9 (21 October 2014)

Holly Hocks said:



			I got one the other day.  Consider it a badge of honour.   You're not a proper member til you get an infraction.  Bit like not being a real rider til you've had a few falls. 

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Me to. Proper member now, yay


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