# Suggestions for natural covering stallions



## Turner (21 January 2017)

Looking for possibilities of natural covering stallions to use on my very well bred dressage mare as advised by vet as A.I was unsuccessful last year. TIA


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## AdorableAlice (22 January 2017)

What do you want to breed and are you wanting to walk the mare in or send her to stud ?


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## Turner (22 January 2017)

Hi, I have no idea in terms of walk in or send as only ever done ai before so suppose it will depend on the stallion and stud. The mare is mainly dressage but does have a nice jump too, in an ideal world I was looking for sport horse as I would of liked a foal to keep for myself for dressage but would consider something like an ID as I think more important that she gets in foal this time then hopefully easier in the future. And this cross would produce a very nice all rounder to sell. Thanks


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## AdorableAlice (22 January 2017)

http://www.langallerfarm.co.uk/index.php

http://www.emblastud.co.uk/

http://www.idhsgb.com/web/page.php/stallions


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## JanetGeorge (22 January 2017)

Turner said:



			Looking for possibilities of natural covering stallions to use on my very well bred dressage mare as advised by vet as A.I was unsuccessful last year. TIA
		
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Did the vet offer any ideas about WHY the AI was unsuccessful.  I use both natural cover (with my own two stallions) and another by AI (all Irish Draughts.)  There is very little difference in conception rate between them IF semen is good and if timing is right.  Natural cover and you have a bit more time - fresh semen will wait longer for ovulation.  Natural cover usually costs rather less if pregnancy achieved first time around - considerably less in vet's fees/visits.

If you want to use an ID for natural cover, give me a yell.


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## sywell (24 January 2017)

Sack Vet. I have used AI at home for 25 years with chilled imported semen. Few problems only delayed once. Sat collection from East Midlands was possible.


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## crabbymare (24 January 2017)

assuming the problem is with the mare and not the vet doing the insemination. now the nights are getting lighter the mare will probably start to think about a transitional season soon so if you keep an eye out for it you can get the vet to do swabs and a biopsy to see if there is a reason why she did not take last year. that will give you time to treat anything that arises and possibly have her checked again before you think about breeding from her. any stud that is doing live cover will want a swab done first anyway so you may as well get it sorted early


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## sywell (25 January 2017)

crabbymare said:



			assuming the problem is with the mare and not the vet doing the insemination. now the nights are getting lighter the mare will probably start to think about a transitional season soon so if you keep an eye out for it you can get the vet to do swabs and a biopsy to see if there is a reason why she did not take last year. that will give you time to treat anything that arises and possibly have her checked again before you think about breeding from her. any stud that is doing live cover will want a swab done first anyway so you may as well get it sorted early
		
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With AI you should know the semen is right so it has to be the mare.


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## popsdosh (25 January 2017)

sywell said:



			With AI you should know the semen is right so it has to be the mare.
		
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Or the Vet!! Sorry but from experience the Vet overseeing the procedure is the biggest influence on success. I will only send mine away to a stud that has good results as timing is everything !


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## crabbymare (25 January 2017)

sywell said:



			With AI you should know the semen is right so it has to be the mare.
		
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I know hence me saying the vet as they are more likely to make a mistake than the semen being a problem. and assuming they tried a few times its more less likely to be the mare as even a vet that is not the most experienced at repro would probably not miss a mare multiple times.


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## Springs (26 January 2017)

Hi 

Its not clear if you were trying frozen or chilled? 

Frozen can be more challenging from a technical point but can achieve good results, Like others have posted chilled AI is as good as Natural if done right and there is nothing wrong with the mare. Did you try just one stallion or did you change to another?

Good luck


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## Maesfen (27 January 2017)

crabbymare said:



			I know hence me saying the vet as they are more likely to make a mistake than the semen being a problem. and assuming they tried a few times its more less likely to be the mare as even a vet that is not the most experienced at repro would probably not miss a mare multiple times.
		
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Just out of interest we had two mares here, one a maiden.  Both in very good health inside and out and cycling well, both due for AI though natural available.  Up until then most mares by both methods were in foal first cycle, at most, second.  Tried both for two cycles and didn't hold so tried both natural; the maiden held, not the other one so suggested to try a different stallion; they did by AI, no joy, last resort they tried natural and she held.  The next year, both held first time by AI and others that had used second cycles the year before also held to first cycles.  The only difference was a different extender was used; the vet, one of the most experienced stud vets in the country, also noted the same behaviour with other herds he attended.  It was his conclusion re the extender; it happened too many times to be coincidence although the original extender still worked for some mares too.

It's not unknown for some stallions and mares to be non compatible with neither at fault; he getting other mares in foal first time and her holding to another stallion; it's also possible that the extender used worked against them; unusual but it does happen and it's frustrating and costly until you find the answer.


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## popsdosh (27 January 2017)

Maesfen said:



			Just out of interest we had two mares here, one a maiden.  Both in very good health inside and out and cycling well, both due for AI though natural available.  Up until then most mares by both methods were in foal first cycle, at most, second.  Tried both for two cycles and didn't hold so tried both natural; the maiden held, not the other one so suggested to try a different stallion; they did by AI, no joy, last resort they tried natural and she held.  The next year, both held first time by AI and others that had used second cycles the year before also held to first cycles.  The only difference was a different extender was used; the vet, one of the most experienced stud vets in the country, also noted the same behaviour with other herds he attended.  It was his conclusion re the extender; it happened too many times to be coincidence although the original extender still worked for some mares too.

It's not unknown for some stallions and mares to be non compatible with neither at fault; he getting other mares in foal first time and her holding to another stallion; it's also possible that the extender used worked against them; unusual but it does happen and it's frustrating and costly until you find the answer.
		
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The extender is indeed one reason and its why you need a good stud vet that is on the ball as usually the extender can cause fluid within the uterus which can be dealt with simply in most cases and the situation retrieved ,that why mine always go to stud as they are scanned after AI as routine.


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## crabbymare (27 January 2017)

Maesfen said:



			It's not unknown for some stallions and mares to be non compatible with neither at fault; he getting other mares in foal first time and her holding to another stallion; it's also possible that the extender used worked against them; unusual but it does happen and it's frustrating and costly until you find the answer.
		
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yes I agree but the semen quality should still be ok so it would be for the vet to suggest changing either the extender or type of semen or even different stallion? I work on the principle that each collection of semen is checked so will have the correct number and motility and after that it is for the stud vet to do their job and with a "difficult" mare suggest other options


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