# Rider charged £2000 rates on Arena



## Stateside (18 October 2010)

The BHS should really kick up over this , if it is to become the norm over the country then the Bhs could argue that it will be a safety issue sending more horses out hacking and badly schooled horses due to lack of arenas in future.Or even ask councils to supply arenas for schooling at rate payers expense, just as they do tennis courts , bowls greens swimming pools etc.As a sport the horse people are very self suffecient.


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## Booboos (18 October 2010)

Is it an indoor arena? If yes, then unfortunately that's quite common. If not, yaiks!!!


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## miller (18 October 2010)

Was an outdoor I believe   though I can't see how they can charge commercial use when your planning permission has been agreed solely for private use exercising your own horses as ours has. 

Do know of someone locally to me (in my council area) who allowed other people to use her 'private use' school even though she didn't charge and council deemed it was no loger 'private' and charged her commercial rates


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## Booboos (18 October 2010)

If it was an outdoor, private use, it might be worth challenging the council rather than paying. It might be worth consulting a private planning advisor who should be able to help with precedents, etc.


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## GoJo (18 October 2010)

we're in the same position and live just round the corner from burley, its the new forest district council which seem to have it in for us equestrians. we have a private menage and they're trying to charge us commercial rates on it as well, we will be giong to tribunal though.


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## FRESHMAN (18 October 2010)

In absolute honesty though how many people can HONESTLY say hand on heart that they do not/would not allow anyone else to use their menage, either for money or not?


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## miller (19 October 2010)

Me - hand on heart - have been asked before but council specifiacally agreed on Private use only and I don't intend to have to pay commercial rates  

Was the main reason we moved away from livery  - having to share arena


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## Booboos (19 October 2010)

Me too. Private use means private use. There is a livery yard (OK, 'was' as we've now moved) next to us that rents you their school for a very reasonable rate.


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## dieseldog (19 October 2010)

She's actually been charged £280 a year but it has been backdated.  This could be a huge cash cow for the council.


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## GoJo (19 October 2010)

what i dont get is why they have singled out menages, what about swimming pools, tennis courts, football pitches, golf courses which people have on their private land. why dont they charge them commercial rates? why is it just menages which in all honesty is just a load of sand within a fenced area. unbelievable.


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## PurplePickle (19 October 2010)

its so annoying councils are difference as well depending on area. £2k for an area though is disgusting,  put some brick pillars up all over it , itll be something to ride around and that floor space isnt counted!


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## BuBbleMooJim (2 November 2010)

It's the attitude, that generalises horsey people into elitist snobs, nothing to do with the fact that it has become a more accessible past-time for many people with not so much money.

Many people when they find out I have a horse, are like, "You have a horse?? You must be loaded" No, I was reasonably comfortable, I got a horse, now I am skint!!

So what makes us different to the tennis, golf and bowls playing people in the world?


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## lizziebell (2 November 2010)

dieseldog said:



			She's actually been charged £280 a year but it has been backdated.  This could be a huge cash cow for the council.
		
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Has she "actually" paid this? I thought it was going to tribunual, and the views were if they lost then more councils will enforce this, but if they win then its unlikely others can be charged.

As others have said, our planning was subject to private use so there is no way I'm paying commercial rates in mine !


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## Crackerz (2 November 2010)

There will be more & more of this happening i fear 

When i worked for the Valuation Office Agency (VOA) who deal with the calculations of council tax & commercial rates, i was put onto a job of doing all the yards in the area. That included a fair few private yards!! I was mortified and kept very quiet about my own yard. 

There view was that if you had empty stables, you could potentially rent them out... 

Regarding schools, they were hit heavy, as were horse walkers. 

fight tooth & nail though - producing insurance docs that state private use only, plus the planning permission & make sure that noone uses your school apart from you! It's just not worth it.

We did notice a spate of people dobbing other people in once they had been caught out, they told on other yards in the area.


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## Sun (2 November 2010)

i have sheep, my school is used as a coral when I need to tend to the sheep & if the fields get muddy to prevent foot rotin the sheep


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (2 November 2010)

Sun said:



			i have sheep, my school is used as a coral when I need to tend to the sheep & if the fields get muddy to prevent foot rotin the sheep 

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Well done you. I know others who have a small flock of sheep to avoid comercial rates too!


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## KatieLovesJames (1 January 2011)

Sorry to drag up an old post but hw does having sheep mean you don't need to pay commercial rates? Just about to build a commercial arena so thi sinformation might come in useful!


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## flowerlady (1 January 2011)

KatieLovesJames said:



			Sorry to drag up an old post but hw does having sheep mean you don't need to pay commercial rates? Just about to build a commercial arena so thi sinformation might come in useful! 

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People around where I live in Nottingham have just installed arena's without planning permission 

We applied to put one on our land for me and OH's use and told yes that will be OK but please note there will be an increase of £1500.00 on top of your normal rates  That was for private use a few years ago so I guess £2000 would be about right now.  We didn't bother and I understand they are going to be looking at those who have them without permission and charge them back rates


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## onemoretime (1 January 2011)

flowerlady said:



			People around where I live in Nottingham have just installed arena's without planning permission 

We applied to put one on our land for me and OH's use and told yes that will be OK but please note there will be an increase of £1500.00 on top of your normal rates  That was for private use a few years ago so I guess £2000 would be about right now.  We didn't bother and I understand they are going to be looking at those who have them without permission and charge them back rates

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Are you already in the top band of council tax, if not, I think it means that they have moved you to a higher bracket.  I also think that people who have swimming pools and tennis courts on their own land are already paying the top band of rates so that is why they dont pay any more.

Commercial use is business rates and therefore comes under a different band from domestic rates as you would be making money out of it - if your lucky!!


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## MagicMelon (6 January 2011)

Seems ridiculous.  Lots of people I know of with "private" schools would let me ride in it for a 'donation'.  Its just another anti-equestrian thing, like the fact that us horse folk HAVE to get planning permission for stables or even a measly field shelter yet farmers can build massive cattle courts / sheds etc. with no permission purely because cows, sheep and pigs come under "agriculture".  Quite why that seperates us I don't know...


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## FairyLights (6 January 2011)

MagicMelon said:



			Seems ridiculous.  Lots of people I know of with "private" schools would let me ride in it for a 'donation'.  Its just another anti-equestrian thing, like the fact that us horse folk HAVE to get planning permission for stables or even a measly field shelter yet farmers can build massive cattle courts / sheds etc. with no permission purely because cows, sheep and pigs come under "agriculture".  Quite why that seperates us I don't know...
		
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Because we dont eat horse meat.  
Maybe we should start then horses would be agricultural. Heavy horses used to work the land are classed as agricultural,so you could have Shires and plough with them. 
Does anyone know if the person paid the rates on the arena?


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## Minstrels19 (29 January 2011)

We have just finished building a holiday let On the Isle of Wight and when they came out to rate it they took photographs of our stables and sand school and yes, they have rated it separately, really jaw dropping, I thought they were joking at first as we have four elderly equines  they are apparently classed as non domestic animals, though I am really quite prepared to let them live  in the house if they'll drop this ridiculous charge, I know countless people struggling to care for horses on their own land who aren't even aware this tax exists, the joke is that we all get land and build stables so that we don't have to pay huge livery fees.  Now we are paying THREE lots of rates any views would be appreciated.


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## perfect11s (30 January 2011)

Minstrels19 said:



			We have just finished building a holiday let On the Isle of Wight and when they came out to rate it they took photographs of our stables and sand school and yes, they have rated it separately, really jaw dropping, I thought they were joking at first as we have four elderly equines  they are apparently classed as non domestic animals, though I am really quite prepared to let them live  in the house if they'll drop this ridiculous charge, I know countless people struggling to care for horses on their own land who aren't even aware this tax exists, the joke is that we all get land and build stables so that we don't have to pay huge livery fees.  Now we are paying THREE lots of rates any views would be appreciated.
		
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 Im not sure what to say  but wonder what
horses are then! not agricultual  when it suits, and now not domestic ??? 
maybe the tossers will be putting tax on rabbit hutches and dog kennels next.. Its high time these local councils were  reminded that the are there to provide services and not a gravy train for pen pushers like it is at the moment...


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## MissTyc (30 January 2011)

My friend told me that where she grew up (in France) the council supplied arenas. She said in her city there were three, each comprising of a large fenced area that contained a 60x80 fenced jumping paddock, a 60x20 unfenced dressage area, a fenced lung ring and an outer soft track surrounding the whole thing. The cost to use was equivalent to £50 (20 years ago) and these days £180. That's per year as a "subscription" ...


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## brighteyes (30 January 2011)

I'm pretty sure there's a council supplied one up in Rochdale (near Uppermill).  A 40x30 ish one with a sand and rubber surface.

Yes, it's Friezland Arena, managed jointly by Oldham and District Riding Club and Oldham Countryside.  Lucky devils - It's time we had some installed in recreation areas.


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## 1stclassalan (30 January 2011)

dieseldog said:



			She's actually been charged £280 a year but it has been backdated.  This could be a huge cash cow for the council.
		
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And there you have it! Object, object, object. The entire Horseyworld should rise up - or more importantly, stayed rooted to the spot and not pay a penny!

Councils are riddled with folk who are blatantly anti-horse and anti-horseyculture - restricting planning permisions etc., for chrisakes! When was sticking some sand or woodchips on the ground a building job needing anyone's sayso??? Anyone whp caves into this kind of nonesense deserves all they get.

These are the same authorities who have a mandatory requirement to provide permanent sites for "travellers" who as most horseyfolk know spend most of their waking hours working out ways of stealing tack and trailers.


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## KarynK (30 January 2011)

GoJo said:



			we're in the same position and live just round the corner from burley, its the new forest district council which seem to have it in for us equestrians. we have a private menage and they're trying to charge us commercial rates on it as well, we will be giong to tribunal though.
		
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So what happened to NFDC and the NPA's plan to get people to share their schools to stop everyone building one then??   That little vote winner didn't last for long as if you share your school and charge to maintain the Piggin B@stards will then wallop you with commercial rates outrageous isn't it the minute you mention equestrian and everyone's out to get money from you!!!!

I thought that planning is now the domain of the National Park? 

It's about time someone started supplying quality dirt surfaces or grass arenas then you can call it a small paddock and they can't charge you!!


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## FairyLights (30 January 2011)

brighteyes said:



			I'm pretty sure there's a council supplied one up in Rochdale (near Uppermill).  A 40x30 ish one with a sand and rubber surface.

Yes, it's Friezland Arena, managed jointly by Oldham and District Riding Club and Oldham Countryside.  Lucky devils - It's time we had some installed in recreation areas.
		
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This is true, its a lovely facility.


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## Alec Swan (30 January 2011)

1stclassalan said:



			And there you have it! Object, object, object. The entire Horseyworld should rise up - or more importantly, stayed rooted to the spot and not pay a penny!

Councils are riddled with folk who are blatantly anti-horse and anti-horseyculture - restricting planning permisions etc., for chrisakes! When was sticking some sand or woodchips on the ground a building job needing anyone's sayso??? Anyone whp caves into this kind of nonesense deserves all they get.

These are the same authorities who have a mandatory requirement to provide permanent sites for "travellers" who as most horseyfolk know spend most of their waking hours working out ways of stealing tack and trailers.
		
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I really don't understand why you have to beat around the bush.  Let 'em have it straight. .

You may,  actually,  have a valid point!!

Alec.


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## Holly Hocks (30 January 2011)

1stclassalan said:



			And there you have it! Object, object, object. The entire Horseyworld should rise up - or more importantly, stayed rooted to the spot and not pay a penny!

Councils are riddled with folk who are blatantly anti-horse and anti-horseyculture - restricting planning permisions etc., for chrisakes! When was sticking some sand or woodchips on the ground a building job needing anyone's sayso??? Anyone whp caves into this kind of nonesense deserves all they get.

These are the same authorities who have a mandatory requirement to provide permanent sites for "travellers" who as most horseyfolk know spend most of their waking hours working out ways of stealing tack and trailers.
		
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I work for a local authority and one of my jobs is visiting unrated business premises.  There are hundreds - not just horse ones either!  Its important to remember that the rateable value is not the same as the rates paid and you only pay a multiplier of that amount.  It's also worth remembering that the council DON'T get the money from business rates.  They are merely the collection agents for central government - they get the money - NOT the councils.  However I have NEVER yet had to visit any property where the horses are peoples own and on their own land.....and as far as I know, there are no private properties in my area which are rated - only the commercial ones....what really frustrates me is that we have a riding school in my area which advertises on the internet for riding holidays and has it's own website.  Myself and my colleagues have visited it regularly and done reports for the VOA, yet the VOA have never rated it.  I find the whole business highly frustrating -those that should be paying seem to get away with it, yet I have recently helped some friends do an appeal for their rates on their livery yard as they are paying FAR more than they should be doing, and it takes an age for the VOA to deal with it.  My advice when appealing against rates, is to go to www.voa.gov.uk and compare your property with others in your area to see what they are paying.....get the evidence and present it with your case.  Unfortunately, not paying is not really an option.  Not paying rates or Council Tax is one of the quickest ways to end up in court and end up with a criminal conviction.


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## Steeleydan (30 January 2011)

I know of some one a couple of villages away from us, has a yard of 25+ horses a few are there own but mainly schooling breaking and alot of full liveries, a school a horse walker people living there in caravans, also a web site advertising all these services, also rug washing service, so clearly running a lucrative business, and they only pay domestic rates a few angey villages have reported them to the council for not paying business rates but the council just turn a blind eye.
So how the council cause fuss over a bit of an arena is beyond me when these people have got away with not paying business rates i dont know.


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## perfect11s (30 January 2011)

Steeleydan said:



			I know of some one a couple of villages away from us, has a yard of 25+ horses a few are there own but mainly schooling breaking and alot of full liveries, a school a horse walker people living there in caravans, also a web site advertising all these services, also rug washing service, so clearly running a lucrative business, and they only pay domestic rates a few angey villages have reported them to the council for not paying business rates but the council just turn a blind eye.
So how the council cause fuss over a bit of an arena is beyond me when these people have got away with not paying business rates i dont know.
		
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 posibly they are paying !!!!


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## Steeleydan (31 January 2011)

Perfect 11 they are definitly not!!


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