# I just got kicked off my yard today



## lisab (14 November 2010)

I've been at my yard just over a year.  Was really happy there.  No facilities at all (except lights and electricity, but no school, not even allowed to ride in the field really) but it was nice and chilled and no rules.

YO is a little eccentric (the other livery hates him) but he was always very nice to me, and his wife is lovely.

He would come to the shows with me if my mum couldn't come, help me tack up, do the practice fence for me, video me etc.  I would help him with his horse, ride her, turn her out, bring her in, lend him my trailer, gave him tack that I didn't use, etc etc.

And now he has gone bonkers.

New horse arrived yesterday.  MASSIVE 17hh+ warmblood.  Not just tall but huge all over.

And stressy and aggressive and kicking crap out the trailer and kicking crap out the stable and yelling his head off.  Turns out he hasn't been out with other horses for over a year.

He puts the new one in the paddock.  I bring mine in past him and he chases us, runs up my boy's bum, my boy lashes out and the new horse whips round and double barrels him.  Didn't connect, thank goodness.

We then try to introduce them on the lead rope in the yard.  They both squeal and strike out.

(Not totally blaming the new horse - mine can be a little alpha-maley too.)

BUT.

This is an accident waiting to happen.

YO has not spoken to me for 3 days because I dared to ask where the new horse was going.  Told me to "mind your own" and said I was a childless worrier that uses her horse as a substitute child.

He said to the new girl today that he would open the paddock gate and let them in together.  I overheard and said "What are you doing?"  No answer.  "What are you doing?"  No answer.  New girl is mortified and says timidly "He is going to open the gate and let them in together".  

I said "No.  No way.  I'm not doing it".

And was told, right, you have 2 weeks to get your horse out of here.


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## DaisyDoll (14 November 2010)

oh no poor you! Dont think that is very fair at all, you were there first. Good luck with finding a nice new yard though xxx


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## Deefa (14 November 2010)

That sounds very unfair! Good luck in finding somewhere new x


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## soulfull (14 November 2010)

not easy but sounds like you are better off out of there now.  hugs


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## wellsat (14 November 2010)

Thats really out of order but doesn't suprise me. YOs can be little mini hitlers when it comes to their own horses.

Hopefully someone on here can help you find a much nicer yard.


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## Echo Bravo (14 November 2010)

What the hell did he think he was doing!! Your horse not his and what would he have done if your horse was badly injured. Go girl, find somewhere your horse is your horse and best wishes


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## lisab (14 November 2010)

I think he's having a "My place, my rules" episode.

Which is fine.  It is his place.  But he has to be reasonable and I think he's gone a bit nuts.

The other livery said maybe he'll change his mind.  But I am very offended about the "childless worrier" thing and I'm paying quite a lot for not very much so he can stick it up his bum.

Trouble is, most of the places around here are full.  I'm going to see a place on Tuesday that is very near home (could walk there) and although it has no proper school, there is a grass school, a jumping paddock and a xc course.

But I'm a little concerned that they won't allow horsehage and aubiose (copd horse) because they sell hay and straw.

But I will ask the question and explain and see what they say.

Thank you for your replies and I'm just having a bit of a rant.


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## polopony (14 November 2010)

That's ridiculous! But tbh it sounds like you have had a lucky escape, thankfully your horse is ok, good luck in finding somewhere new 
(its posts like this that make me feel so lucky that I'm not on a livery yard )


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## Archangel (14 November 2010)

How awful but best off out of there by the sound of it.
As for the comment he made to you, how insulting. 
Hope you find somewhere lovely very soon


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## Dubsie (14 November 2010)

teebagsmum said:



			But I'm a little concerned that they won't allow horsehage and aubiose (copd horse) because they sell hay and straw.

But I will ask the question and explain and see what they say.

Thank you for your replies and I'm just having a bit of a rant.
		
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I can understand they want to sell their hay/straw. If they say no to your horsage/auboise I wonder if they would have any objection if perhaps you suggested you paid a small nominal storage fee for storing your horsehage/auboise - have a figure in mind when you ask. Then they'd still be earning from their hay/straw storage space


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## Maesfen (14 November 2010)

Echo the others and hope you can find a better yard.  Don't forget to get all of your tack back he's borrowed!


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## steadyeddy (14 November 2010)

Would move asap. Hope find new yard very soon.


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## lisab (14 November 2010)

Dubsie said:



			I can understand they want to sell their hay/straw. If they say no to your horsage/auboise I wonder if they would have any objection if perhaps you suggested you paid a small nominal storage fee for storing your horsehage/auboise - have a figure in mind when you ask. Then they'd still be earning from their hay/straw storage space
		
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Thanks Dubsie, I thought that too.  Some farmers are funny about shavings as they don't rot down so quickly, but Aubiose is plant (hemp) based, so they shouldn't mind about that.  Hopefully.

God I need to win the lottery.


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## Izzwizz (14 November 2010)

Its his loss, once hes said something like that, even if he changed his mind, you would always wonder about when the next time would happen.  As for haylage, if worse comes to worse you could buy the packaged Equilage or steam/soak your hay.  Good luck.


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## Enfys (14 November 2010)

wellsat said:



			Thats really out of order but doesn't suprise me. YOs can be little mini hitlers when it comes to their own horses.
Hopefully someone on here can help you find a much nicer yard.
		
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Wellsat Not all of us, you have obviously been unlucky with your choice of yards if that is your opinion of us _*all*_ 

Teebagsmum, shame, but it could be a blessing in disguise, at least you have had some notice. Good Luck with finding another yard.


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## kezimac (14 November 2010)

thats dreadful, 
good luck in finding new yard - where are you perhaps HHO could help?


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## tristar (15 November 2010)

i think its totally unaceptable to put two strange horses in together, only an idiot would do it,you have expressed your concern, you have to leave your horse there while you find a new yard, write out a letter now telling him he will be responsible for any accidents if he endangers your horse, and that the new horse has already shown agressive tendancies, don't be afraid to defend your rights,
hopefully you will find a better place to keep your horse with a riding surface etc, so try not be too upset and think its for the better in the long run.


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## maletto (15 November 2010)

wow, there's definitely a screw loose there!!

sorry things have ended badly at this yard but it might work out for the best


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## Rana (15 November 2010)

What a nightmare!

Re hay/straw being supplied by a yard - I've found that if you want something they can't supply (eg, straw and hay), they're fine.  They just won't let you buy in alternative hay and straw.  Just personal experience, so fingers crossed for you


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## LaurenM (15 November 2010)

Hope it goes well with visiting the new yard, I'd love all those facilities!

I'm getting nervous about turning my horse back out with his herd - he's been at a trainer's yard for 4 weeks and since he went there have been a few new horses


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## JoanneLangford (15 November 2010)

Not fair of your present YO, best go though you don't need to be treading on eggshells, at the same time risking injury to your horse, winter is stressful enough.
Potential YO though, just ask nicely or plead! I find it usually works, don't think you need to be paying corkage for bringing in your own haylage etc, it's expensive enough!!
Good luck, chin up
Hugss


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## Kenzo (15 November 2010)

Must admit it sounds a bit out of character if you've never had problems in the past, agree find somewhere else, meanwhile I'd try to have a chat with him or his wife? it's no excuse I know but some people act in strange ways if their going through a tuff/stressful time in their life, you may of just got the brunt of it, maybe when he's had time to think about the situation he'll realise he's acting un reasonable?

But yes, certainly find somewhere else.


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## lisab (15 November 2010)

Thank you again for your replies.

It gets worse.

Just had a text from my friend saying that Mrs YO's 30 year old pony was down in the stable this morning, they had the vet and it's not good news.

Poor, poor Mrs YO, she is so lovely and has enough to put up with already and now this.

But, on a more positive note, I'm glad that some of you think it will probably be ok about the horsehage/aubiose thing and, this morning, I've spoken to my very good friend who used to be at the tomorrow looking place and she thinks that they will be fine about it.  She just said to repeat that I need an outdoor stable because that YO has a habit of saying you can have something then changing her mind.

But it all looks a bit better today.

And when I think about it, I was holding my friend's horse whilst she clipped him yesterday and Mr YO came barging out the tack room carrying a rug and if I hadn't have moved out of his way, I'm sure he would have knocked me out of the way.

It really is very strange how he is behaving and I'm best off out of it.


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## NOISYGIRL (15 November 2010)

teebagsmum said:



			Thank you again for your replies.

It gets worse.

Just had a text from my friend saying that Mrs YO's 30 year old pony was down in the stable this morning, they had the vet and it's not good news.

Poor, poor Mrs YO, she is so lovely and has enough to put up with already and now this.

But, on a more positive note, I'm glad that some of you think it will probably be ok about the horsehage/aubiose thing and, this morning, I've spoken to my very good friend who used to be at the tomorrow looking place and she thinks that they will be fine about it.  She just said to repeat that I need an outdoor stable because that YO has a habit of saying you can have something then changing her mind.

But it all looks a bit better today.

And when I think about it, I was holding my friend's horse whilst she clipped him yesterday and Mr YO came barging out the tack room carrying a rug and if I hadn't have moved out of his way, I'm sure he would have knocked me out of the way.

It really is very strange how he is behaving and I'm best off out of it.
		
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Sounds like your better off away from the weirdo, if it were me I'd move as quick as I could never mind the notice period, I'd be worried what the idiot would do when I wasn't there


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## lisab (15 November 2010)

Oh god, poor Mrs YO's pony has died.

Bless him.  He was such a lovely, friendly little soul.  Was so awful to see him down on the floor, sweated up and puffing like a train.  But this is the first time I've seen him ill since I've been there.  30 years old, never ill, god bless him.

I've kept mine in today.  Turned him out in the dark once the new one came in.  New one needs a bloody good smack in my opinion.  Still kicking crap out the door, won't be tied up without a haynet, runs round in circles whilst being held, bashes timid owner on head and has escaped from the stable this evening.

New girl says "He's upset because he knows yours is out".  I say "it's dark, he can't see him".  She says "yes but he knows he's out there and it's upsetting him".  To which I cannot help but reply "for god's sake!".

The most spoilt, bad mannered, vile horse I have ever met.  I banged his door hard with the broom once she had gone.  That stoppped him kicking the door.  Spoilt brat.  I'd batter it and put manners on it.

Aaanyway, let's see what tomorrow brings.


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## woodlandswow (15 November 2010)

good luck with everything! 
sounds like a pretty vile situation, and any news on another yard is good... keep pushing to get out of there asap! .. the new horse sounds pretty bonkers, 
ignore any unpleasantness.. take it on the chin .. and think.. your stuck with a sticky yard!
thats awful though about the YO pony.. poor girl!

good luck .. keep smiling


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## SusieT (15 November 2010)

teebagsmum-I wouldn't be surprised if you came across as aggressive to YO given that you are now talking about 'battering' a horse that's just arrived on a new yard and sounds unsettled
You're the type of livery I hate-passing judgement on others horses and how it needs a 'good smack' to set it right and the owner is just a wimpy timid little girl... Quite a common scenario...
What business is it of yours how it behaves? 
Although obviously the two should not have gone out together until they were better acquainted, my horses squeal when they talk over doors/on leadropes and they are all turned out together incident free..


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## DragonSlayer (15 November 2010)

teebagsmum said:



			I'd batter it and put manners on it.
		
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I think I'd be glad you were leaving my yard as well! 

Is this really how you would deal with a horse that has arrived at a new place, unsure, completey different routine etc etc?

Can't believe I read that........


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## lisab (16 November 2010)

Well I've had just about enough now.  And you haven't seen it and I have.  And it does need a good smack.

And I really don't care if I am the type of livery you hate and would be glad that I'm leaving your yard.  

Obviously I didn't mean batter batter it - just a figure of speech.  But it does need to have some manners.  It is too big to be behaving like this.  And "Oooh, stop it you naughty boy" just isn't working.

I know I shouldn't have banged the door with the broom but I've had enough.

I have just put mine out and came back to find new horse has bust out his stable.  Again.  Tried to catch him and he was fine until I got him near his stable and then he ran round me in circles and wouldn't go in, so I let him go.  He then put his ears back as I walked by him to go out the gate and get in my car to leave.

It's all very easy to come out with comments like the 2 above when you are not having to deal with the situation.

And how he behaves does affect me, actually.  Because he is so spoilt and aggressive, I am having to get up at 5am to turn my horse out in my friend's paddock so he can have 3 hours turn out before being confined to barracks for the day at 9am when she puts her horse out.  And, incidentally, nice, judgemental 2 above - the field has been split into 2 because when I arrived on the yard, my friend's horse attacked mine and bit his face almost down to the bone and now he is scarred.

You are not having to deal with this situation and I am, so go boil your head.


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## sadiedeb (16 November 2010)

Definately sounds like you're better of out of it - good luck finding a new yard x


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## xspiralx (16 November 2010)

New girl says "He's upset because he knows yours is out". I say "it's dark, he can't see him". She says "yes but he knows he's out there and it's upsetting him". To which I cannot help but reply "for god's sake!".
		
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In this case I'd say she is right - horses can see much better in the dark than we can and he probably did know that yours was out. I know lots of horses that go a bit mental if they are left in when others are out.


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## natalia (16 November 2010)

Teabagsmum, I have a warmblood who also behaves like this as she is VERY insecure. If I caught you "battering manners in to her" I think you wouldn't be walking. She does all the behaviour you've described when unsettled and would also be making a fuss about new horses, however given a couple of weeks she'll be settled. I think you should have given this one a bit more of a chance, horses will be horses after all and soon sort it out with each other.


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## DragonSlayer (16 November 2010)

teebagsmum said:



			Well I've had just about enough now.  And you haven't seen it and I have.  And it does need a good smack.

And I really don't care if I am the type of livery you hate and would be glad that I'm leaving your yard.  

Obviously I didn't mean batter batter it - just a figure of speech.  But it does need to have some manners.  It is too big to be behaving like this.  And "Oooh, stop it you naughty boy" just isn't working.

I know I shouldn't have banged the door with the broom but I've had enough.

I have just put mine out and came back to find new horse has bust out his stable.  Again.  Tried to catch him and he was fine until I got him near his stable and then he ran round me in circles and wouldn't go in, so I let him go.  He then put his ears back as I walked by him to go out the gate and get in my car to leave.

It's all very easy to come out with comments like the 2 above when you are not having to deal with the situation.

And how he behaves does affect me, actually.  Because he is so spoilt and aggressive, I am having to get up at 5am to turn my horse out in my friend's paddock so he can have 3 hours turn out before being confined to barracks for the day at 9am when she puts her horse out.  And, incidentally, nice, judgemental 2 above - the field has been split into 2 because when I arrived on the yard, my friend's horse attacked mine and bit his face almost down to the bone and now he is scarred.

You are not having to deal with this situation and I am, so go boil your head.
		
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No, I won't go boil my head. You need to think about what you are writing before you say it. I don't care what you say, your obvious attitude towards a strange horse stinks. And before you start yelling im living in fluffy kitten land, just remind yourself that you have no idea who I am, how I deal with my horses etc etc etc....

I suggest you step back and think a bit. But then, don't bother, seeing as you are leaving anyway....


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## Ladyinred (16 November 2010)

I find it sad that it is so easy to apply the label 'spoilt and aggressive' and talk of battering some manners into it and totally failing to see the scared and worried horse beneath the surface. Aggression is so often borne out of fear and this horse needs calmness and confidence to reassure him, not some idiot battering him.

OTOH it is also fair to say that human aggression (battering and smacking and shouting) is also borne out of fear.. Maybe that's a large part of the perceived problem.


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## Tinypony (16 November 2010)

You're best out of it.  Best all round by the sound of it.  
The new horse is suffering from separation anxiety, and yes his behaviour is not good, but if you bear in mind that it stems from fear and anxiety then maybe you'll understand it better.  He'll also be aware that the old pony died.  Is he now being left in the stables alone while your horse is out?  If he is, then that's something a lot of horses would struggle with.


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## Chestnutmare (16 November 2010)

I've just read all the post's and thought at 1st...sounds odd?.....but then reading further on and your 'updated' posts OMG I am truely appalled that you would even suggest such a thing even if matter of speech to 'batter it into him' the new one sensed your's was out in field and if it doesn't like being alone then it will kick up a fuss, but it's best to talk calmly to it rather than bang door back and be all bargy back this will only stir horse up more..

Horse's get very stressed from moving etc new friends and routines smells etc......
you said the horse got out of stable....your tried putting it back but it refused and you let it go again, so i assume the horse was then roaming the yard?? and you didn't think to advise YO or owner?...

Good luck in finding your new yard too
oh and hope that your horse's face heals up soon


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## Amymay (16 November 2010)

I'm really shocked at your attitude OP.

You sound like a hysterical, spoilt child.

You battered the stable door with a broom in the hope that that would calm the horse down???  Do you have horse management skills at all??

Regardless of whether this horse is badly behaved or not - moving yards can be very, very stressful for some.  That coupled with the fact that your horse (presumably its stable mate) was turned out leaving him in - probably made the situation ten times worse.  Try thinking about the bigger picture - not the narrow little one in front of you.

Why not apply some of your 'attitude' to actually helping the owner?  Yes, perhaps they are timid, but instead of making disparaging remarks about them - why not offer a hand.

It's post like these that make me thank God that I have only ever been on professional yards, where behaviour like yours is simply not tollerated!


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## JenTaz (16 November 2010)

sorry OP but you do sound like a livery who thinks that everything is solved by hitting a horse, it is people like you that cause horses to be headshy and the like, maybe if you put your energy into helping the new owner when you saw them, rather than threatening to "batter" the horse then you may get somewhere, also its a public forum where you dont know who you are talking to, there is no need to be so damned rude, you were the one who came here for advice so heres some from me, go home and learn some manners!


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## michaelequine (16 November 2010)

:O:O:O


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## Tinypony (16 November 2010)

Your first post describes what will be pretty obvious if you turn horses straight out together.  They will probably react a bit, kick out at each other etc.  Then, instead of letting them sort it out and settle, the owners understandably split them up again.  This could all have been avoided by doing a proper introduction with them in adjoining paddocks for a while.  
Having been through this stressful time, and the move, the new horse is now being left in a stable while his new companion (even if they don't share a field, it's his companion) gets turned out.  In addition to that, a horse has just died on the yard.  He stresses, as many horses would.  He might be used to a routine where all the horses go out and come in together, he may be used to being turned out with others.  Added to that, a young woman is banging and slamming around, probably shouting a bit, but definitely bashing on his door with a broom.  This solves the problem for a while, because it scares him away from the door.
I think your focussing your anger on the new livery and her horse, which is wrong.


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## *hic* (16 November 2010)

amymay said:



			It's post like these that make me thank God that I have only ever been on professional yards, where behaviour like yours is simply not tollerated!
		
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And make me think - no, there is no way I'm having any liveries.


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## Amymay (16 November 2010)

jemima_too said:



			And make me think - no, there is no way I'm having any liveries.
		
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Yep, absolutely works both ways


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## Ranyhyn (16 November 2010)

DragonSlayer said:



			I think I'd be glad you were leaving my yard as well! 

Is this really how you would deal with a horse that has arrived at a new place, unsure, completey different routine etc etc?

Can't believe I read that........
		
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Agreed.  If that was my horse and I found some other livery trying to "teach him a lesson" they'd be coughing up teeth for weeks.

Sounds like you both had a lucky escape TBH...


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## siennamum (16 November 2010)

I feel some sympathy for the OP. She's had her horse arrangements turned upside down in a couple of days.

There's no way I would entertain a 17hh bargy horse bwing turned out with mine unless there was a period of weeks for them to become accostomed to each other, let alone querying issues like worming routines. 
I would be pretty hysterical if this were threatened. 
I would resent bitterly a new horse basically being allowed turn out and having to keep mine stabled most of the time. 
I would get extremely irritated by horse kicking the ***** out of it's surroundings and breaking out of it's stable - especially if I were the only person on the yard and were having to try and do my horse to the accompaniment of something door kicking relentlessly and breaking out of it's stable.
I would frankly not be overly interested in being a good neighbour/livery if this were all going in and I had to find a new yard. 

In your place OP I would probs be short tempered and shoot off nasty comments about the horse. I might be sympathetic to the new owner, but tough really, she owns the bloody thing.

I would certainly be looking to move asap and let them stew in their own mess. All very avoidable with a little communication, planning and horse sense, but it does sound like a slightly strange set up to begin with.


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## Jesstickle (16 November 2010)

siennamum said:



			I feel some sympathy for the OP. She's had her horse arrangements turned upside down in a couple of days.

There's no way I would entertain a 17hh bargy horse bwing turned out with mine unless there was a period of weeks for them to become accostomed to each other, let alone querying issues like worming routines. 
I would be pretty hysterical if this were threatened. 
I would resent bitterly a new horse basically being allowed turn out and having to keep mine stabled most of the time. 
I would get extremely irritated by horse kicking the ***** out of it's surroundings and breaking out of it's stable - especially if I were the only person on the yard and were having to try and do my horse to the accompaniment of something door kicking relentlessly and breaking out of it's stable.
I would frankly not be overly interested in being a good neighbour/livery if this were all going in and I had to find a new yard. 

In your place OP I would probs be short tempered and shoot off nasty comments about the horse. I might be sympathetic to the new owner, but tough really, she owns the bloody thing.

I would certainly be looking to move asap and let them stew in their own mess. All very avoidable with a little communication, planning and horse sense, but it does sound like a slightly strange set up to begin with.
		
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I agree entirely. OP's horse is having to stay in all day so new horse can go out. She should be allowed to turn hers out after dark if she blooming well wants.

If the new one is so unsettled by moving it's owner should be there to keep an eye on the bleeding thing.


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## TinselRider (16 November 2010)

Kitsune said:



			Agreed.  If that was my horse and I found some other livery trying to "teach him a lesson" they'd be coughing up teeth for weeks.
		
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Wouldn't be awake to be coughing up teeth if it were my horses!

It's because of people like you OP that my horse is now afraid of whips and runs from the stable door if you approach it too quickly!


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## siennamum (16 November 2010)

boogles said:



			Wouldn't be awake to be coughing up teeth if it were my horses!

It's because of people like you OP that my horse is now afraid of whips and runs from the stable door if you approach it too quickly!
		
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What a ridiculous thing to write. The OP banged the stable door with a  broom. The horse was kicking the door and repeatedly breaks out of it's stable. How does this compare to your horse in any way.........

She explained that the "batter it" comment was a figure of speech & is frustrated & upset, that doesn't make her spawn of the devil.

I think this is becoming a bit farcical.


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## kerilli (16 November 2010)

OP, I think the sooner you're out of there, the better, and that having nothing at all to do with the new horse (whose bad manners are really not your problem) would be a good idea. If it is a thug, it's for the owner to sort it out. If it's playing up because it's insecure, ditto. Ignore it, not your horse or your problem.
Hope you get on well at potential new yard, and manage to leave present yard on good terms... burning bridges is never a good idea...
I think you're absolutely right to insist that your horse and the new horse aren't turned out together though, as a broken leg might well ensue.


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## Ranyhyn (16 November 2010)

A frightened horse is very unlikely to respond favourably to any kind of extra outside stimulus I wouldn't have thought...just throw that idea out there...


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## TinselRider (16 November 2010)

siennamum said:



			What a ridiculous thing to write. The OP banged the stable door with a  broom. The horse was kicking the door and repeatedly breaks out of it's stable. How does this compare to your horse in any way.........

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 I have had someone repeatedly bang the stable door  in an agressive manner with a whip and now as I stated my horse is petrified of them!


I do not appreciate individuals taking it upon themselves to discipline other peoples horses, We have a horse where I am that barges out of the door....so do we have a go at its door with a broom ? NO we catch it and put it back away OR call the owner.


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## *hic* (16 November 2010)

And to think so much of this could have been so easily solved with a pack of electric fence posts, some tape and an energiser. Why don't people just get on and deal with things rather than leaping up and down and shouting their mouths off?


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## paulineh (16 November 2010)

Horses and Ponies should have manners and the bigger the horse the more manners it should have.

After having and working with horses for many many years I have taken in horses that have no manners at all.I will not have any horse walk all over me or dismantle my stables or fences.

As for a horse settling down yes maybe they do need some time, but what about the horses that compete and stay away for a number of days. The Race horses that travel stay away and still compete. My own competition horses travel and stay away over night staying in strange fields and stables and they cope.

If the person can not control and handle this big 17hh horse then she should not have it.

As for the OP the change in the YO may or may not be able to be dealt with and as she is unhappy the she should move.

I do say that she should not try and deal with this new horse. It is not her business.


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## micramadam (16 November 2010)

I can see both sides here having just moved yards. 
Still same YO but different (very much smaller) yard not far from the other one.
My mare was extremely agitated and upset the first week but you have to try to think like the horse and realise the reasons for the upset and above all have loads and loads of patience. 2 weeks on she is so chilled it's great. 
Friend's horse also came across to new yard with us and he is having serious separation anxiety problems. He has lost loads of weight and is a real stress head. We do however realise that he will eventually calm down once he gets into the new routine and just tend to ignore him when he bashes the stable door (even though its so frustrating sometimes). Owner is also introducing a calming supplement to try and help the process. 
Can understand why OP is stressed and frustrated having experienced this problem with new horses at the YO's other yard. My daughter's Fjord was kicked till he was lame by a new horse and we had to keep him out of the field. Luckily we were in a position where we could rent a famer's field near the yard so could still turn him out even though it cost us more money. No-one wants their horse injured and unfortunately there are some horses in the horse world who are the equivalent of bullies. Also horses need to establish a pecking order in the herd but this is normally sorted very quickly, with lots of squeals and positioning but usually without much actual physical aggression. Know you have been asked to leave but can you not suggest the option of trying them in paddocks side by side so they can get used to each other before turning them out together. That way you are showing that you are willing to work towards a compromise and you may be allowed to stay (if you stiil want to). 
The new owner is also probably stressed to hell as this is not how you would want to start off at a new yard. this in turn will affect her horse as they pick up on this very easily. Her and her horse will not be familiar with the routines or the people or the horses and would probably be very grateful of any help or advise.


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## HappyHorses:) (16 November 2010)

boogles said:



			I do not appreciate individuals taking it upon themselves to discipline other peoples horses, We have a horse where I am that barges out of the door....so do we have a go at its door with a broom ? NO we catch it and put it back away OR call the owner.
		
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^^ this^^
On two different yards I have found my horse to become headshy. First y/o was smacking him for eating his hay over the door and dropping hay on the yard, didn't like a mess  ok but haynet was at the back of his stable, he just used to grab a mouthful and stick his head out to see what was going on poor fella.

Second yard I found out that the y/m used to tie her horse up outside my horses stable and smack him when he put his head out to say hello to her horse 

Jeeze you need to treat horses like horses. 

So glad I now have my own yard and don't have to put up with anyone else now. 

OP, think you will be better off out of there for your horses sake.

As for the new horse, it's not his fault no-one has managed the situation correctly. Some thought should of been given to the t/o and that is your y/m fault.


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## paulineh (16 November 2010)

jemima_too said:



			And to think so much of this could have been so easily solved with a pack of electric fence posts, some tape and an energiser.
		
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Electric fencing does not always work. I have had horses walk through the tape even though the fence has been attached to the mains.


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## SusieT (16 November 2010)

I think another poster is right, this op is clearly afraid of the new horse, referring to it as 'huge' (17hh is quite a common size and not that big..) now that I look back.
I cannot believe someone would leave a horse wandering loose, unless perhaps you rang the YO/horse owner to let them know?
Ah, so you're one of those owners who believes it is always your horse who is blamefree (since the new horse and your friends horse both 'attacked' it...) 
You wouldn't be welcome on any yard of mine with your attitude! I suggest you look after  your horse and ignore the others, it is none of your business whether it needs a good slap. And it's not the horses fault you have to get up at 5am-that's a management issue.. Why not leave yours out overnight?


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## Amymay (16 November 2010)

17hh is quite a common size and not that big
		
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It's plenty big enough - especially if its wound up and / or ill mannered.


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## SusieT (16 November 2010)

I have to say even at 15hh, the horse is much bigger and stronger than you so doesn't make any difference imo that extra 2hands. But this shouldn't bother the OP in any case-she should not be dealing with the horse unless she is competent to do so.. Which she is evidently not.


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## Caz89 (16 November 2010)

I do agree with the OP in some respects. You are better off out of there with a crazy YO like that! At the end of the day you are a customer to him and he should never have spoken to you like that or behaved in that way! However I hope the current liveries at your new stables don't react to your horse in the way you have the new one... I can't imagine she will be very impressed if she finds out. It can be a very stressfull time for both horse and owner moving yards so she may not be timid and inexperienced but just shy. Maybe you could all sit down and discuss a routine?


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## Luci07 (16 November 2010)

Look on the bright side - what if you hadn't been there and your horse had just been turned out?

Crikey, our YO is almost at the other end of the extreme. Absolutely nothing goes out in company for the first 2 - 4 weeks. Any sign of being an idiot and it will stay solo and when they do go out, its only in pairs (or very very occasionally 3). New grass liveries coming in have to have their back shoes removed as well before going out to avoid issues - shoes go back on once the pecking order is established.


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## Queenbee (16 November 2010)

Ok Teebagsmum,

I think you need to understand that you are running on very dangerous territory here.  You have a forum Full of supporters and you tell them to  'go boil your head' because they take offence that you would batter a horse or even use that language, perhaps it is you who should be holding your tongue.  I see nothing wrong with whacking the door with the broom od the monster is kicking the door although I have always found that the best way to deal with a **** bag in the stable is to outright ignore it.  If it gets out of the stable, ignore it, if it clamours around ignore it, if it kicks the crap out of the door put ear muffs on and ignore it!  Focus your full attention on moving, you should have no problem re: bedding and hay due to your horses condition.  Make a bloody good point of listing all your tack that you have lent the YO and demanding it back (give him notice to return it) Point blank IGNORE the fire breathing, chunk biting, door kicking dragon, it is not your place to sooth or repremand him, focus on your ned.  


And finally when you have simmered down you may see how rude you have just been to people who were genuinely shocked by your attitude.  Everyone on here was offering support over this, then you say you would 'batter it' and you take umbridge because people get ticked off by this.  You do not apologise for causing offence, instead you tell them to 'boil their head' if you want support and sympathy off the forum, play nice, do not insult, and apologise for offense caused and rudeness.



teebagsmum said:



			Well I've had just about enough now.  And you haven't seen it and I have.  And it does need a good smack.

And I really don't care if I am the type of livery you hate and would be glad that I'm leaving your yard.  

Obviously I didn't mean batter batter it - just a figure of speech.  But it does need to have some manners.  It is too big to be behaving like this.  And "Oooh, stop it you naughty boy" just isn't working.

I know I shouldn't have banged the door with the broom but I've had enough.

I have just put mine out and came back to find new horse has bust out his stable.  Again.  Tried to catch him and he was fine until I got him near his stable and then he ran round me in circles and wouldn't go in, so I let him go.  He then put his ears back as I walked by him to go out the gate and get in my car to leave.

It's all very easy to come out with comments like the 2 above when you are not having to deal with the situation.

And how he behaves does affect me, actually.  Because he is so spoilt and aggressive, I am having to get up at 5am to turn my horse out in my friend's paddock so he can have 3 hours turn out before being confined to barracks for the day at 9am when she puts her horse out.  And, incidentally, nice, judgemental 2 above - the field has been split into 2 because when I arrived on the yard, my friend's horse attacked mine and bit his face almost down to the bone and now he is scarred.

You are not having to deal with this situation and I am, so go boil your head.
		
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## applecart14 (16 November 2010)

teebagsmum said:





I've been at my yard just over a year.  Was really happy there.  No facilities at all (except lights and electricity, but no school, not even allowed to ride in the field really) but it was nice and chilled and no rules.

YO is a little eccentric (the other livery hates him) but he was always very nice to me, and his wife is lovely.

He would come to the shows with me if my mum couldn't come, help me tack up, do the practice fence for me, video me etc.  I would help him with his horse, ride her, turn her out, bring her in, lend him my trailer, gave him tack that I didn't use, etc etc.

And now he has gone bonkers.

New horse arrived yesterday.  MASSIVE 17hh+ warmblood.  Not just tall but huge all over.

And stressy and aggressive and kicking crap out the trailer and kicking crap out the stable and yelling his head off.  Turns out he hasn't been out with other horses for over a year.

He puts the new one in the paddock.  I bring mine in past him and he chases us, runs up my boy's bum, my boy lashes out and the new horse whips round and double barrels him.  Didn't connect, thank goodness.

We then try to introduce them on the lead rope in the yard.  They both squeal and strike out.

(Not totally blaming the new horse - mine can be a little alpha-maley too.)

BUT.

This is an accident waiting to happen.

YO has not spoken to me for 3 days because I dared to ask where the new horse was going.  Told me to "mind your own" and said I was a childless worrier that uses her horse as a substitute child.

He said to the new girl today that he would open the paddock gate and let them in together.  I overheard and said "What are you doing?"  No answer.  "What are you doing?"  No answer.  New girl is mortified and says timidly "He is going to open the gate and let them in together".  

I said "No.  No way.  I'm not doing it".

And was told, right, you have 2 weeks to get your horse out of here.



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If you are in the Solihull/Warwickshire/Wythall area I know of loads of yards I can help you with.  Don't worry, there are many yards out there, you will find better, I can promise you that.


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## spotty_pony (16 November 2010)

That sounds awful, poor you!  I hope you find a nicer yard soon!


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## aimeetb (16 November 2010)

jemima_too said:



			And to think so much of this could have been so easily solved with a pack of electric fence posts, some tape and an energiser. Why don't people just get on and deal with things rather than leaping up and down and shouting their mouths off?
		
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Agreed, this is what I have done with my baby, her field friend is going to be a chunky (beautiful) Irish Draft mare who althougn I am sure is lovely and patient could seriously hurt her very easily so whist my baby has to be confined to a small area (physitis) she is in a paddock in this horses field getting to know eachother then come into stables next door to eachother, it seems to be working very well


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## Tinypony (16 November 2010)

When you get to your new yard, I hope they will make sure that your horse is introduced gradually to his new companions.  Also, I hope that your horse settles in really well and doesn't undergo a temporary personality change, as some do when they go to a new place.  I hope it all goes really well and smoothly for you.
Electric tape doesn't always work, as stated above, but you don't know until you try do you?  
The owner of this new horse at your place must be having a heck of a time with hers.


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## fatpiggy (16 November 2010)

I have alot of sympathy for the OP.  I keep my 27 year old mare on a farm which has a few (but they keep increasing) DIYs. The farmers are not knowledgeable about horses even thought they have a couple of their one.  It is common practice for a new livery to turn up (we often get less than 24 hours warning) and the the horse put straight out in with the existing ones, no quarantine, no introductions.  Yes, horses do need to sort out a pecking order and most of the argueing is noise and posturing, but just recently we had a 9 yo TB mare arrive. We did manage to keep her in the adjoining paddock for 48 hours so that she could see the others, but then were basically forced to let her in as otherwise we would have lost 50% of our grazing, and there isn't enough for year round turn-out as it is.  The other horses in the field were a 8 yo meek cob mare, another 27yo, a 30yo and a 32yo.  My mare has arthritis so cannot move quickly and is part blind on one side. Within 3 weeks she had been very badly kicked by the new one and I was left with nasty injuries to deal with twice daily - 1 month later she still has a an open wound - but it could have been a great deal worse as it could have been two broken back legs.  The other owner felt it was perfectly ok to only see her horse once a week, so not surprisingly it was stressed when it saw ours being brought in/fed and generally getting attention, plus it was rapidly learning to push its weight around because no-one was giving it any discipline.  It was also hungry as there wasn't anything much to eat on the field.  You can't blame the animal for that, but it should never have been put in with elderly animals in the first place - that is simply bad management. We did try to suggest this to the YO, but it fell on pretty deaf ears largely because they don't KNOW horses.  While mine was in an isolation paddock, since she could hardly walk, an 18mth old took her place. Great.  

17hh may not be big to those of you who have them (I rode a 16.3 when I was 11) but you get used to your own animal's dimensions.  Having struggled to tack up a 17.1 because of the weight of the saddle, I was more than happy to buy a 15.1hh. Cheaper to keep, easier to get on from the ground and the rugs are less humungous!  The larger the animal, the more important it is that it has good manners. I agree with the OP that alot of people let their animals walk, quite literally, all over them.  A sharp word is often all that is needed here and there. I used to have a stable companion that kicked its stable door every day - a metal door, so you can imagine the noise. One day I'd had enough (I'd given it its feed, it was just jealous of mine getting attention) so I screamed blue murder at it and gave the door a good kicking myself as I had steel toe caps in my boots. The horse quaked at the back of the stable. Funnily enough it never kicked the door again.  Was that cruel? I don't think so. I didn't hurt it and it did the trick.

I think the OP would be off moving regardless. The YO is clearly not someone you could ever really trust, and if they can change their tune that rapidly, then it is likely things will only get worse. I'd love to know what it is really like between his wife and him. Wouldn't surprise me if she is scared of him.


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## tristar (16 November 2010)

the pony that died had a long and good life with a caring owner, yes it is a shock, but in the present situation you must put this out of your mind, and also the other horse and its owner, they are their problem unless, they ask for help, and the yo is shirking responsibility, you are not  responsible for other peoples lack of knowledge, inability to deal with this distressing situation, they are their 
problem.
you must concentrate on yourself, yes be selfish, you are responsible for your horse, he is relying on you to keep him safe, as you have get up at 5 am please look after yourself, get to bed an hour or so earlier, try to eat properly at regular times, have a glass of wine to relax you, stress and rising early every day so the horse can have some time outdoors, and looking for somewhere to keep him will make you very tired, i have lived through these things myself and understand, and can only reassure you by saying it was what i went through that lead me to my present good circumstances, you are a caring person who is going all the way in the interests of their horse and doing all the right things.


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## tristar (16 November 2010)

just read fatpiggys post, i can't tell you how sad it makes me feel, what can be done about these things, putting horses in with strange horses i thought was ILLEGAL according to e u law, caring people having to keep their older horses in these places, these big yards run by 'farmers who don't know horses' should be closed down and only people who understand a horses requirements should be licenced to supervise the day to day welfare and lifestyle  of equins, what is the BHS DOING ABOUT IT  the horse is a special case it is not farm livestock and requires daily specialised care in suitably organised premises


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## Maesfen (16 November 2010)

siennamum said:



			I feel some sympathy for the OP. She's had her horse arrangements turned upside down in a couple of days.

There's no way I would entertain a 17hh bargy horse bwing turned out with mine unless there was a period of weeks for them to become accostomed to each other, let alone querying issues like worming routines. 
I would be pretty hysterical if this were threatened. 
I would resent bitterly a new horse basically being allowed turn out and having to keep mine stabled most of the time. 
I would get extremely irritated by horse kicking the ***** out of it's surroundings and breaking out of it's stable - especially if I were the only person on the yard and were having to try and do my horse to the accompaniment of something door kicking relentlessly and breaking out of it's stable.
I would frankly not be overly interested in being a good neighbour/livery if this were all going in and I had to find a new yard. 

In your place OP I would probs be short tempered and shoot off nasty comments about the horse. I might be sympathetic to the new owner, but tough really, she owns the bloody thing.

I would certainly be looking to move asap and let them stew in their own mess. All very avoidable with a little communication, planning and horse sense, but it does sound like a slightly strange set up to begin with.
		
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Have to agree with this and I would bang its door back too; if I had a headache from its banging I'd make sure it had one too from me kicking the door back.  Petty?  Yes, but totally understandable.


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## fatpiggy (16 November 2010)

Aha Tristar - but then we'd be homeless!  Until now we'd got away with it but we always dread new horses coming on (we've had some right numpty owners too, so we dread them as well!!!)  Our little group gets on well, no-one is really top dog and they are happy to mooch, munch, snooze and have the occasional whizz around when old legs are up to it.  We likened having young animals in with them as having 5 year old children put into an old folks home.  No good for anyone.  Unfortunately, the farm has realised that horses are easy money. No doubt very little goes through the books and we more or less look after ourselves so outgoings are minimal for them.  Probably explains why once there were 5 liveries, now there are 11 and they'd like more.


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## Rosehip (16 November 2010)

OP, Im not going there with your little rant, as I have said pretty much the same before...just not so publically!
PM me if you are in the Lichfield/Burton/surrounding area, I know of 2 or 3 good livery yards that I can give you the number of if you want them. Hope that you and your horse are ok, dont stress about the new horse, just ignore its there if you can, and maybe have a cuppa with the owner - it sounds as though she could do with a friend!


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## AlexThe Arab (16 November 2010)

tristar said:



			these big yards run by 'farmers who don't know horses' should be closed down and only people who understand a horses requirements should be licenced to supervise the day to day welfare and lifestyle  of equins, what is the BHS DOING ABOUT IT  the horse is a special case it is not farm livestock and requires daily specialised care in suitably organised premises
		
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It would indeed be lovely if *all* livery yards were professionally run by caring, experienced people - but I think they would be charging a lot more than the farmer  which not everyone can afford.

Surely it is the horse owner who must take responsibility for providing *their *horse with suitable accommodation?  These poorer qualitity yards would cease to be if they had no clients....


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## Meowy Catkin (16 November 2010)

I used to livery at a Farm and it was much better than the professional yard that I had been at previously.


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## tristar (16 November 2010)

i know, i know fatpiggy, i thought that as i was writing it, i do feel so much for what people are going through, when i was in this situation, i negociated with the farmer  to have my own field, maybe you could, or even a fenced off section just for yours, and it was great, no more new horses chucked in when you were not there etc, it started a trend on the farm and other people did the same qnd got their own piece.


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## fatpiggy (17 November 2010)

Hi Alex,  unfortunately everything was fine when I moved on as there were only 5 other liveries, and they were all small ponies, in their older years. There was plenty of grazing and we could arrange ourselves more or less how we liked.  Now there are twice as many neds on exactly the same amount of land.  As to cost, well it is only a tiny bit cheaper than the big livery yard down the road and that has all the facilities, whereas we have none. When I first moved on I was saving quite a bit from where I'd come from but then the rent was put up 30% after I'd only been there 3 months.  Unfortunately, my mare is just too old to entertain a move again (she's been there 6 years now) - the move on was traumatic enough for her. We don't need anything except a stable and year round grazing so I don't want to pay for things I will never use.  You say that substandard yards would go out of business - honestly, they wouldn't!  It is hard to find anything halfway decent when you are in suburbia and I know some right horrors but they still have full lists.


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## Tinseltoes (17 November 2010)

Cant you rent a field and put a mobile shelter on it.You can do as you please then and not be bossed around. Try to find one where you have field to yourself,if not one/two other horses.


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## lisab (18 November 2010)

Hello everyone.

I've had a couple of days away from the forum as I was so stressed, I couldn't cope with people putting the boot in.

I've been to the new yard and all is well and I'm moving him Saturday.

I'd just like to set a few things straight:-

(1)  At no point, whatsoever, did I suggest that I would give the new horse a good smack.  What I meant was that his owner should not be so soft with him.  I certainly do not agree with smacking other people's horses.

(2)  The first thing I did on hearing that a new horse was coming, was to ask if we could electric fence the field again.  After the episode with my mine and my friend's fighting last year, I was not in a hurry to have a repeat episode.  I was told that I was not allowed, as it would churn the field up.

(3)  I did not tell the whole forum to go boil their head.  This was aimed at the people who were posting spiteful comments to me when I was - quite clearly - having to endure a very stressful situation.

I have learnt the hard way not to post on here when I am very stressed.  I obviously put myself across in the wrong way and then have to deal with the fallout.

I would like to put this to bed now and hope that the move will be successful.

Thank you very much to those of you who made helpful, supportive suggestions.


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## spotty_pony (18 November 2010)

Glad to hear things are sorted out. Good luck with the move!


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## woodlandswow (18 November 2010)

dont worry.. i learned the hard way too! .. people can really mis interpret things which make you more stressed!!
good luck and i am happy you have been successful!


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## Maesfen (18 November 2010)

SJ_Superstars said:



			Glad to hear things are sorted out. Good luck with the move! 

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Baa!  
	
	
		
		
	


	








  Very best of luck and let us know how it goes.


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## tristar (18 November 2010)

good news, all the best with the future,  please don't keep things bottled up and not post if needed.


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## kirstyl (18 November 2010)

tristar said:



			good news, all the best with the future,  please don't keep things bottled up and not post if needed.
		
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Ditto above!  Really hope move to new yard goes well and that you and your horse can be more happy and relaxed.  It would seem that some people on this forum want to find the worst in everyone, which is very sad, particularly when OP needs some support


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## lisab (27 November 2010)

Hello.

The new yard is very nice.  We went for a razz round the fields on Monday and jumped 2 sets of tyres and a log.  They have PTP horses there.  And it's just around the corner from my house.

I have a grass school, jumping paddock, auto waters, 200 acres to ride around - lovely.  And I went for a jumping lesson on Tuesday and Tee was an absolute star - Mr Instructor said it's best he's ever seen him - praise indeed.

But.  Had his yearly flu/tet jab on Tuesday.  I told the vet he hates it and should I twitch him or put it in his rump? She said No it's fine. She said she'll "do it in a one-er" and rams it in his neck and bends the needle big time. Oh dear, big swollen neck, can't get his head down to eat and in lots of pain. 3 days of bute and I can't ride him.

But a couple of days bute kicks in and he is fine.

And then...

I get a text from my friend at the old yard saying that the new horse has jumped the 5 bar gate and has kicked the stable door out and has been kicked out.

Eek


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## siennamum (27 November 2010)

Really glad to hear you are settled, sounds like it was a good idea regardless of the reason behind it. That other horse sounds like a nutter.


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## el_Snowflakes (27 November 2010)

what a pr*ck, i cant even imaginr this as my YO is so lovely. I wouldnt give this guy a penny of my money, make sure when you leave you drag his name through the dirt!


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## 9tails (27 November 2010)

teebagsmum said:



			Hello.

But.  Had his yearly flu/tet jab on Tuesday.  I told the vet he hates it and should I twitch him or put it in his rump? She said No it's fine. She said she'll "do it in a one-er" and rams it in his neck and bends the needle big time. Oh dear, big swollen neck, can't get his head down to eat and in lots of pain. 3 days of bute and I can't ride him.

But a couple of days bute kicks in and he is fine.
		
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Careful he doesn't get/have an abcess.  These are truly awful to shift and my mare has a 3 inch scar from one that needed draining after just such a jab.  She had exactly the same symptoms.  Bute will mask the pain but the problem is still there.


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## scathach (17 February 2011)

DragonSlayer said:



			No, I won't go boil my head. You need to think about what you are writing before you say it. I don't care what you say, your obvious attitude towards a strange horse stinks. And before you start yelling im living in fluffy kitten land, just remind yourself that you have no idea who I am, how I deal with my horses etc etc etc....

I suggest you step back and think a bit. But then, don't bother, seeing as you are leaving anyway....
		
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i have a stressful type mare and been driven around the bend when she's freaking out in her stable and have other people tutting at her behaviour. and also been in the situation you are explaining! my ex best mate brought a horse for her mum, it was aggressive and spilt personality would chase us up the field if i went to get my horse in (before i even had my horse) to ride i had to ban my daughter from setting foot in the field with it. both my geldings where petrified of it. i asked 4 times for it to not be turned out with my horses but when i came down there it would be in my field. it came to a head when i got a phone call from someone else at the yard to come down my mare had been almost killed by it. she is a show pony who had been placed at county that spring and had skin tears all over her body, she had kicks were there wasn't bites she was covered in sweat and was shaking from head to toe. now 4 years on she is a bigger stress head than ever and freaks out if a horse comes near her at the gate.
i didn't even get an apology i just got told not to tell anyone who came to buy him or else he would be stuck there forever i heard on the grapevine his new owners had similar issues and had blood tests done and he was a rig.


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## Vixen Van Debz (17 February 2011)

New yard sounds great - hope getting kicked off was inadvertently one of the best things to happen to you!  

Other horse and owner kicked off? Ha! Love how what goes around comes around. Nutty owner now two liveries down... that's what you get for upsetting one of your best clients ;0)


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## TallyHo123 (17 February 2011)

Sounds ridiculous! Although if that's how he acts be glad your out now.
Hope you and your horse find somewhere even better to go  Keep up posted!


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## MerrySherryRider (17 February 2011)

ShowJumping Superstars said:



			Glad to hear things are sorted out. Good luck with the move! 

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Your new yard sounds lovely. Good luck with enjoying the facilities -and being so near home is such a bonus.
 I completely understand how stressful it was for you, former YO, did mismanage the situation, but I also feel a bit sorry for the other owner.
 When I bought my last horse she was a complete nightmare, inconvienced other owners, disturbed their horses and made them uncatchable. She nearly killed YO who had to jump out of her stable over the door, she injured a farrier and was a cowbag for the vet. Lucky for me, everyone at the yard knew me well and were supportive and tolerant. YO even joked that problem horses suited me. Having to deal with a new horse, behaving like a complete fruitloop would have been very stressful if I'd had the other liveries on my back. I was lucky, I was able to concentrate on settling the new one in without any politics. And she did settle, she's now such an easy horse to have around. Hopefully, the owner of the asbo horse will find another yard that suits him better. Not your new one though......


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## NOISYGIRL (17 February 2011)

Where I am, any new horse is put alonside the existing herd for about a week.

So he was going to open the gate, so presuming the gate was between paddocks ? why couldn't it stay in the seperate one for a while, or did he mean open the gate literally just put it straight in ?? thats unacceptable

You are better off out of there tbh


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