# i love draw reins



## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

After a few horric schooling sessions my young mare was ridden in draw reins for first time ever last night and wow what an amazing difference in attitude and performance!!


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## *hic* (24 August 2011)

*pulls up a chair, makes flask of coffee, puts snacks within easy reach, grabs fags and ashtray and settles in*

Actually that might be premature, this would go much longer in CR!


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## Box_Of_Frogs (24 August 2011)

I hate draw reins. They create a totally false outline: proper self carriage, impulsion etc is what creates a true soft and rounded outline with the poll the highest point. Draw reins easily create an unhappy horse and are but a few short steps away from rollkur. Ditch them and invest in a good trainer and some decent schooling for both horse and rider.


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

jemima_too said:



			*pulls up a chair, makes flask of coffee, puts snacks within easy reach, grabs fags and ashtray and settles in*

Actually that might be premature, this would go much longer in CR!
		
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Pass us a sandwich!

it might go longer in CR, but I bet it will be much more amusing in content here


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## Dancing Queen (24 August 2011)

*feels the s5it will hiteth the fan*


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

Am i missing something?? Sorry lol. X


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## ABC (24 August 2011)

Dancing Queen said:



			*feels the s5it will hiteth the fan*
		
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This ^^^


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## ellie_e (24 August 2011)

jemima_too said:



			*pulls up a chair, makes flask of coffee, puts snacks within easy reach, grabs fags and ashtray and settles in*

Actually that might be premature, this would go much longer in CR!
		
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LOL! Are there biscuits to go with coffee if so im in!!


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

They are not used for outline....they where used to stop her taking the pee out of me and also instructor and acting a total fool whilst being totally ignorant and ignoring everything.

Not used for outline at all! !


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## quirky (24 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			Am i missing something?? Sorry lol. X
		
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Draw reins are the work of the devil .... apparently.

I'm sure you will be told why in no uncertain terms very soon .


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## lexiedhb (24 August 2011)

jemima_too said:



			*pulls up a chair, makes flask of coffee, puts snacks within easy reach, grabs fags and ashtray and settles in*

Actually that might be premature, this would go much longer in CR!
		
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Shove over JT- and give us a fag..... ta x

OP- what exactly is it you LOVE about draw reins? The fact they make your horses head go in?


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## lannerch (24 August 2011)

They do tend to give the rider a false sense of achievement! 

Not brave enough to say more but am reaching for the popcorn 

edited due to iphone!


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## kirstie (24 August 2011)

Box_Of_Frogs said:



			I hate draw reins. They create a totally false outline: proper self carriage, impulsion etc is what creates a true soft and rounded outline with the poll the highest point. Draw reins easily create an unhappy horse and are but a few short steps away from rollkur. Ditch them and invest in a good trainer and some decent schooling for both horse and rider.
		
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It is not the draw reins that do that... It is the rider holding them


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## stencilface (24 August 2011)

Depends on your definition of horrific, if your definition is not working properly then thats a whole lot different to horrific meaning the horse turning itself inside out, bucking, rearing and generally being a complete prawn.

If its the latter, then draw reins are imho, entirely jusitified to help you get your point across.  If you are unable to get your horse to listen to you and school properly then thats a whole other thing.


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## paddi22 (24 August 2011)

do you not think if you have a horse 'bucking, rearing and turning itself inside out' that there might be underlying problems that might need more than draw reins?


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

Becuase used loosely as a back up she began to listen and behave and rather than play up!

I had always thought they where awful till instructor advised trying them. 

She had teeth bit back saddle shoes etc all checked and done and a few proffesional lessons where advise was due to her size she was settin neck and ignoring me and doing as she pleases x


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## dumpling (24 August 2011)

Lol. Oh dear, this could be a long thread!


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

It always amazes me how many people shout all evil at draw reins, but find market harborough or harbridge just fine... At least you can drop the contact on draw reins in seconds...


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## aimeetb (24 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			Becuase used loosely as a back up she began to listen and behave and rather than play up!

I had always thought they where awful till instructor advised trying them. 

She had teeth bit back saddle shoes etc all checked and done and a few proffesional lessons where advise was due to her size she was settin neck and ignoring me and doing as she pleases x
		
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Draw reins arent my cup of tea either, i appreciate they may stop her from taking the pee but i dont personally think that you should stop her taking the pee by pulling her head down. 

If she gets set in the neck and doesnt listen id be doing big bends in slow work to show her how to bend then transitions to get her listening and small circles if she doesnt and lateral work to get her listening and bending, its hard work but she would be better for it.

You did say she is young afterall, they all test the boundaries when hard work comes along but i think that hard work and persistence would have a better outcome long term than resulting to training aids so early on. 

xxxx


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## Munchkin (24 August 2011)

This is the user that was buying an ISH and wanted us to tell her what saddle was going to fit it. When that fell through, she bought a 'wild' unhandled NF baby, and proceeded to 'break it in' within 2 days, complained everyone was bullying her when they said that was a bad idea, then came crying again when she realised they were right.

I think she's what is known as 'a lost cause' and I just feel sorry for the little mare.

Anyway, carry on...


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## stencilface (24 August 2011)

paddi22 said:



			do you not think if you have a horse 'bucking, rearing and turning itself inside out' that there might be underlying problems that might need more than draw reins?
		
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Not all the time no.


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## Lady La La (24 August 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Shove over JT- and give us a fag..... ta x

OP- what exactly is it you LOVE about draw reins? The fact they make your horses head go in?
		
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Giz 2's on yer fag & scootch up


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## Ladylina83 (24 August 2011)

Stencilface said:



			Depends on your definition of horrific, if your definition is not working properly then thats a whole lot different to horrific meaning the horse turning itself inside out, bucking, rearing and generally being a complete prawn.

If its the latter, then draw reins are imho, entirely jusitified to help you get your point across.  If you are unable to get your horse to listen to you and school properly then thats a whole other thing.  

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Agreed ! My draw riens go on to stop me being head butted in the face ! After 10 years of top notch care and attention, I am pretty sure there is nothing wrong with her other than the fact she is a diva and doesn't like being told what to do - especially by me !! Mine clip on to my girth they can come off when she is working well. I can normally tell when I get her in from the field if it is going to be a day for needing them or not. I don't use them all the time. some days she is an angel - they just need to be used carefully !!


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## xspiralx (24 August 2011)

Draw reins are an extremely useful tool in the right hands.

God forbid anyone suggests as much on this forum though, it's akin to admitting that you like to skin puppies alive


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## MiCsarah (24 August 2011)

^^^^ completely agree


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## paddi22 (24 August 2011)

I have nothing against draw reins per se - if i was taking young horses on the road who had a tendency to spin and rear, id wear them as a safety precaution. 

But if i couldn't manage to school my horse without them i'd rethink whether i was over-horsed or not a strong enough rider for my horse.

You see so many riders on yards who claim their horses are crazy rearers and buckers and they don't 'listen' unless they have draw reins on. But then you see these horses going fine when stronger riders get up on them on clinics or during lessons.


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

My instructor rode her and then suggested it. X


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## lexiedhb (24 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			My instructor rode her and then suggested it. X
		
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How old is your mare?


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## Megibo (24 August 2011)

only 'gadget' i like is the abbot davies rein...purely because when used once a week they did miracles to my mares schooling and yes, even when she wasn't wearing it! 

*deleted the rest*


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

Nearly 7


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## Puppy (24 August 2011)

Munchkin said:



			This is the user that was buying an ISH and wanted us to tell her what saddle was going to fit it. When that fell through, she bought a 'wild' unhandled NF baby, and proceeded to 'break it in' within 2 days, complained everyone was bullying her when they said that was a bad idea, then came crying again when she realised they were right.

I think she's what is known as 'a lost cause' and I just feel sorry for the little mare.

Anyway, carry on...
		
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Oh lordy...


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## lexiedhb (24 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			Nearly 7
		
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So this is an on going issue with her? 

Wait do you have more than one horse? As i thought you had a youngster


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## Double_choc_lab (24 August 2011)

I thought the OP was going to be a lanky 16 yr old getting a little sec A ready for its tiny rider to show.  That seems to be a popular use for them.

Now going to move back and just watch over everyone's shoulders.


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

Yes lol. The other is 5 on passport but dentist thinks a little younger.


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

Tazhazzamoose said:



			only 'gadget' i like is the abbot davies rein...purely because when used once a week they did miracles to my mares schooling and yes, even when she wasn't wearing it! 

*deleted the rest*
		
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Abbot davies? Isn't that tying horse's head to its tail? And how is it better than tying it to the girth?


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## Dizzle (24 August 2011)

There is nothing scarier than riding an over draw reined horse (usually put in draw reins because they are &#8216;naughty&#8217  the horse is of course still naughty but now you&#8217;ve taught it to evade by dropping behind the contact, and where do you go with that (in my case it&#8217;s usually to dismount, hand the horse back and thank the lord for my giraffe of a tb!) you have NOTHING in front of you but a coiled spring under you...

Not to mention that 99% of all dressage judges IMO can point out which horses have been draw reined... &#8220;needs to work into contact more&#8221; 

(also, can someone please pass me one of these cigarettes going round, ta thanks!)


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## Ranyhyn (24 August 2011)

xspiralx said:



			it's akin to admitting that you like to skin puppies alive 

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are you not meant to do that then?


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

BoolavogueDC said:



			are you not meant to do that then? 

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not publicly, anyway  Just like eating children, selling on horses and few other hangable HHO offences


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## Ranyhyn (24 August 2011)

Laughing is one, I believe


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## Puppy (24 August 2011)

xspiralx said:



			it's akin to admitting that you like to skin puppies alive 

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BoolavogueDC said:



			are you not meant to do that then? 

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*runs and hides*


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## Dizzle (24 August 2011)

martlin said:



			Abbot davies? Isn't that tying horse's head to its tail? And how is it better than tying it to the girth?
		
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God I hate those things even more, mind you I also dislike Pessoa's as I'd rather not use my horses hind leg to tug on his mouth to tuck his head in.

Damn me and my lack of short cuts, no wonder I had a seven year old that's just about walking in a consistent outline, another two years we might have mastered trot


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

I like skinning puppies. Its good fun.


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## Hedwards (24 August 2011)

martlin said:



			Abbot davies? Isn't that tying horse's head to its tail? And how is it better than tying it to the girth?
		
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Not when I used to use it, attaches to a strap on the girth and a system of what look like pullys - I have to say I agree with the previous poster, used occasionally it can have fantastic results, really worked on my old mare.


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## Achinghips (24 August 2011)

Let's extend the talk out into bungees, side reins and pessoas. Instruments of torture 'eh?

- edited to say, ah, I see pessoas have been bought into it already - good.


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## Ranyhyn (24 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			I like skinning puppies. Its good fun.
		
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No, no no.  When I said it, it was funny


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

Hedwards said:



			Not when I used to use it, attaches to a strap on the girth and a system of what look like pullys - I have to say I agree with the previous poster, used occasionally it can have fantastic results, really worked on my old mare.
		
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Ah, so comparing which is worse (draw reins or abbot davies) is defunct now, because they are essentially the same, then 

I actually prefer draw reins to a bungie or side reins - as I said, you can let go of draw reins in seconds...


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## Dizzle (24 August 2011)

Achinghips said:



			Let's extend the talk out into bungees, side reins and pessoas. Instruments of torture 'eh?

- edited to say, ah, I see pessoas have been bought into it already - good.
		
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Sorry, should I have waited until page 3? 


I saw the best thing ever on facebook, young horse being broken in... turned out in the field with a fly rug, roller and side reins attached to a bit/bridle. Turned out like that. Seriously, I had to double and treble check but they were PAYING for this 'breaking' service...


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## PolarSkye (24 August 2011)

Dizzle said:



			There is nothing scarier than riding an over draw reined horse (usually put in draw reins because they are naughty)  the horse is of course still naughty but now youve taught it to evade by dropping behind the contact, and where do you go with that (in my case its usually to dismount, hand the horse back and thank the lord for my giraffe of a tb!) you have NOTHING in front of you but a coiled spring under you...

Not to mention that 99% of all dressage judges IMO can point out which horses have been draw reined... needs to work into contact more 

(also, can someone please pass me one of these cigarettes going round, ta thanks!)
		
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This was our boy when we bought him.  Ridden in draw reins and martingale . . . possibly to stop him spinning and rearing.  We removed most of the gadgets (still has a crank cavesson, but no martingale or flash and definitely no draw reins).  He is now happy to go into the contact and trusts the rider - something it's taken us a year and a half to achieve.  

Ditto Pessoas - he HATES those and resists something chronic.  Quite happy to lunge in side reins though - and I can double lunge him with no problems - possibly just an association thing.

Personally, I think draw reins are fine "in the right hands" but are often used inappropriately and by people who aren't coordinated enough to use them sympathetically.

Ducks and leaves.

P


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## Dizzle (24 August 2011)

PolarSkye said:



			Ducks and leaves.
		
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Ok, I just spent ages trying to work this out... I thought it was a saying like 'swings and roundabouts'.

 help me!!!


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## Hedwards (24 August 2011)

martlin said:



			Ah, so comparing which is worse (draw reins or abbot davies) is defunct now, because they are essentially the same, then 

I actually prefer draw reins to a bungie or side reins - as I said, you can let go of draw reins in seconds...
		
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Not sure I'd suggest they are essentially the same - all I know is that there was a marked difference in my mare when I used an abbot davies (we're talking about 10 years ago here) - I would use it for approximately 5-10 minutes on each rein in walk and trot only maybe once a week/fortnight depending on what work she was doing and then remove to continue schooling - dramatically improved her schooling generally. As with all these things, in the right hands they can have their uses - I havent used any gadgetry for many many years as I havent felt the need with any of the nags I've had since, but if i felt the need in the future, I would.

I hate to see badly used draw reins - we have a couple on our yard who use them very badly - and suprise suprise, when they go out to compete (at medium and advanced medium) it all goes to pot and the horses explode...

However i have seen them used incredibly sensibly and well (mainly during my time riding at an event yard in my younger days)


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## *hic* (24 August 2011)

Dizzle said:



			Ok, I just spent ages trying to work this out... I thought it was a saying like 'swings and roundabouts'.

 help me!!!
		
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PMSL


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## ScarlettLady (24 August 2011)

eeek, very dangerous in the wrong hands! 
Our local flavour of the month instructor turned up at the local yard on Sunday, taught for 4-5 hours (mostly jabbing horses in the gob and kicking them with spurs for that time ) and left again. I went up on Monday to see 3-4 people schooling in the outdoor school in draw reins..... (obviously her gadget of the week) 
ARGH!!!! 
Surely its all about harmony and partnership between horse and rider..... nope apparently its all about strapping them down, beating the cr*p out of them oh and leaning on their neck with your hands either side down by the girth 

Yes I have ridden in draw reins previously, bungee, side reins the lot around 7 years ago (i was 15, who would give those things to a 15yr old?  ), but wouldn't go back as funnily enough most of the time you take these things off, and the horse goes back to doing what they were doing... if you do it slower with correct training, the results seem to last.....


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## Tammytoo (24 August 2011)

Brambridge04 - you're a brave girl to start a post that is 100% guaranteed to get people going!

or are you just being norty


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## Sophstar (24 August 2011)

i despise draw reins! i started riding a friends horse who she had had problems with rearing and bucking and ended up using draw reins to give her some comfort that she was less likely to end up on the floor. i got on this horse with no draw reins but she still worked as though she had them on. her head disappeared out of sight and tucked it ride under. i spent the entire schooling session trying to get her to work from behind and lifting her head into a more natural position and work into the contact. do not like them at all.


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

Well i was being serious but realised i could either have worded it differently or kept it to myself lol....


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## madlady (24 August 2011)

They are used too much to overbend - I have used them in the past and I will use them again - to help teach youngsters to lower their head without resorting to fixed side reins, and to help to teach an elastic contact - draw reins have instant release opposed to side reins which I personally prefer.

Draw reins evil - no.  In the wrong hands though they are an instrument of torture - that's down to the hands though not the reins.


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## perfect11s (24 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			After a few horric schooling sessions my young mare was ridden in draw reins for first time ever last night and wow what an amazing difference in attitude and performance!!
		
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  Um so does hedghog skins on jumps  to stop horses knocking poles down and alsorts of other gadgets to "make" the horse do what you want but at the end of the day there is no substitute for someone who can get the horse to understand and want to do what you want  with feel and timeing  that is the differnce between a average to poor trainer and a great one..IMHO


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

becca_norrey said:



			oh and leaning on their neck with your hands either side down by the girth 

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errmm, and what is that supposed to do?


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## Ibblebibble (24 August 2011)

martlin said:



			errmm, and what is that supposed to do? 

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to get them on the bit of course 
i'm just shocked that any of you actually admit to riding your horses i mean putting all those evil gadgets like saddles and bridles on them,


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## Allover (24 August 2011)

Personally i just LOVE draw reins, i love to see horses schooling in them especially when they are paired with a lovely set of strong spurs (makes me even more content when the rider does not have an independant seat so jabs the horse constantly with them and i just ADORE it when the horses sides are damaged from them) so the horse can really run into an overbent incorrect outline..........................OH such pleasures that are afforded to us


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## mbequest (24 August 2011)

Having and using a pair of draw reins is just like having an offside 4x4 vehicle. A lot of people have them because they are a status symbol and fashionable. They aren't however utilising them for what they were originally designed. Being taught to ride in a pair and to use them correctly and truly effectively is something not enough people bother to do today. I thinking if there were more people willing to learn, and more instructors knowledgeable enough to teach people how to use them there wouldn't be such a stigma attached to them. After all draw reins were quite possibly one of the first "training aids" to be developed many many years ago when riders were true horsemen and women.


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## Mince Pie (24 August 2011)

Prepares to be shot here but I love them too!
I school my cob in them once a fortnight in them and he goes like a dream. He does work from behind and he is not over bent. Oh and he won his last dressage test


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## mbequest (24 August 2011)

Can't edit on iPhone it should be off road 4x4 !! Lol


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

I have an instructor twice a week who advised the use and is supervising use x


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

mbequest said:



			Having and using a pair of draw reins is just like having an offside 4x4 vehicle. A lot of people have them because they are a status symbol and fashionable. They aren't however utilising them for what they were originally designed. Being taught to ride in a pair and to use them correctly and truly effectively is something not enough people bother to do today. I thinking if there were more people willing to learn, and more instructors knowledgeable enough to teach people how to use them there wouldn't be such a stigma attached to them. After all draw reins were quite possibly one of the first "training aids" to be developed many many years ago when riders were true horsemen and women.
		
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Well, helloooo! Long time no see and all that


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## Ibblebibble (24 August 2011)

mbequest said:



			Can't edit on iPhone it should be off road 4x4 !! Lol
		
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lol i was wondering what an offside 4x4 was


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## mbequest (24 August 2011)

Hello martlin!!!


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## Ranyhyn (24 August 2011)

I was just thinking where do I recognise that name from!!


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## mbequest (24 August 2011)

Boolavogue darling, I don't venture into NL much, they scare me


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

Who is it? Im lost!!


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

lol, I think we have well and truly derailed the thread now


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## Ranyhyn (24 August 2011)

Well the draw rein argument thing has been done to death and now mbequest is here we can play with him instead!


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			Who is it? Im lost!!
		
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Careful now, curiosity killed the cat


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

Who is he? Lol.


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

BoolavogueDC said:



			Well the draw rein argument thing has been done to death and now mbequest is here we can play with him instead! 

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Have you read that back to yourself, Kitty?   norty!


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## mbequest (24 August 2011)

Noone important Brambridge sweetie, sorry to hijack the thread. I'm glad that you are having some help and jot just going off on your own using drawn reins. Used properly they can be a wonderful training tool, used badly, can be very detrimental. I hope your pony comes leaps and bounds!!


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## lassiesuca (24 August 2011)

Draw reins were invented in the 16th century by horseman William Cavendish, the Duke Of Newcastle. He ditched the draw reins when he began learning that if we rode properly, horses would develop self carriage; he noted his findings in his book. One of the things we learn, especially if you're like me and into classical training, horses are built differently, their necks vary- some prefer to be poll high, others seem to over-bend slightly. 


Just a cheeky comment, but I love how every time I see a draw rein discussion, everyone who uses them says ''I've been taught to use them correctly'' now c'mon . 



I don't like them, I wouldn't use them- one because I wouldn't want them as IMO it defeats the point of self carriage, and I'd probably not do it 'correctly'. 

''If you're good enough to use them, you shouldn't need them, if you're not good enough to use them, you shouldn't use them''.


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## Ranyhyn (24 August 2011)

martlin said:



			Have you read that back to yourself, Kitty?   norty!
		
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Heheheh 
I'm a danger to myself today


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

BoolavogueDC said:



			Heheheh 
I'm a danger to myself today 

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Never mind to yourself! I hope you haven't scared the poor lad off


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## mbequest (24 August 2011)

Well someone is competent in the use of google...... ( don't have smiley faces on iPhone but this is said with HUGE amounts of tongue in cheek)


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## mbequest (24 August 2011)

I'm here, went to get a cuppa.... who's playing......


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## Paint Me Proud (24 August 2011)

i love a good read of this webpage - http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/gadgets.php - have a good look at all the different gadgets!


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

or ''go ogle'' as my OH calls it  just to keep in theme


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## Mithras (24 August 2011)

I have to say I used them recently on my horse which leans and I didn't find them as effective as trying to encourage him to engage in proper self carriage with schooling without them.  But they may assist when he is more balanced, or a horse not so much on its forehand.  I am sure they have their place but at present I'm not using mine.  Maybe as a one off now and then they might be useful to me.


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## NOISYGIRL (24 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			They are not used for outline....they where used to stop her taking the pee out of me and also instructor and acting a total fool whilst being totally ignorant and ignoring everything.

Not used for outline at all! !
		
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You could try a harbridge instead, its elasticated so not so restricted


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## NOISYGIRL (24 August 2011)

martlin said:



			It always amazes me how many people shout all evil at draw reins, but find market harborough or harbridge just fine... At least you can drop the contact on draw reins in seconds...
		
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True, I agree, (I just posted to say to use the harbridge lol)

I think you need to know 'how' to use them, at least the OP has had some advice and not just stuck them on


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## competitiondiva (24 August 2011)

I haven't read all replies! Knew this would be a long one!! I think draw reins are a marmite thing!!  Personally they have their place BUT are abused alot!!  Some of the top riders use them, I've seen a certain top show jumper jumping in them too.  But because total control of them is in the riders hands they are easily abused and used ineffectively.  Harbridges only take effect when the horses head comes too high (effectively the same affect as a standing martingale), they do not pull the nose in like draw reins so work differently.


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## Megibo (24 August 2011)

Hedwards said:



			Not when I used to use it, attaches to a strap on the girth and a system of what look like pullys - I have to say I agree with the previous poster, used occasionally it can have fantastic results, really worked on my old mare.
		
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AH there you go 
they're better than draw reins IMO and they work in the long term. not for every horse of course but mine did well from them  been looking for a new one a while tbh, and i never did the tying head to tail thing ...

you do all of course realise you should be able to ride with no tack. and your horse should move brilliantly like that, because it's only natural. second best thing to that is bitless, treeless and shoeless! (whether it benefits your horse or not...)


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## premiersporthorsesuk (24 August 2011)

I too am a self confessed lover of the draw reins!!!  everyone is entitled to their own opinion, its funny to see everyone who doesn't like them are very quick to comment and judge. Everyone has their own ways of doing things so let us be with our gadgets, as long as our horses are happy and healthy thats all that matters


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## kezimac (24 August 2011)

Well it depends how you use them 

I tend not to use draw reins I would rather have running reins (attached to girth at side under saddle)  -  and have used them when horse just being a complete strong sod - sticking nose in air and ignoring aids (and running on adrenaline)  - they were used until she realised that dropping crest and lowering neck lowers her adrenaline, and she was worked for a few days in them - making sure pushing from behind - i never even had her on vertical she was alway in front of vertical - it was to lower the neck and get her calmer and listening - after a few days she got the idea and were taken off. 

They havent been back on - they were last resort, but worked. 

BUT you have to make sure nose is not behind vertical and neck 'breaking' at 3nd or 3rd vertebrae - it will be a false outline and do nothing for muscle development - nothing for trust in horse as they will be forced into that outline. 

I know someone who has draw reins for a rearer - they are loose til she decides to start. In that case fair enough. 

I would say give it a few days and take them off - dont get to rely on them - and let horse stretch lots dont hold neck in position all time.


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## Flicker (24 August 2011)

becca_norrey said:



			eeek, very dangerous in the wrong hands! 
Our local flavour of the month instructor turned up at the local yard on Sunday, taught for 4-5 hours (mostly jabbing horses in the gob and kicking them with spurs for that time ) and left again. I went up on Monday to see 3-4 people schooling in the outdoor school in draw reins..... (obviously her gadget of the week) 
ARGH!!!! 
Surely its all about harmony and partnership between horse and rider..... nope apparently its all about strapping them down, beating the cr*p out of them oh and leaning on their neck with your hands either side down by the girth 

Yes I have ridden in draw reins previously, bungee, side reins the lot around 7 years ago (i was 15, who would give those things to a 15yr old?  ), but wouldn't go back as funnily enough most of the time you take these things off, and the horse goes back to doing what they were doing... if you do it slower with correct training, the results seem to last.....  

Click to expand...

OMFG!!!  Your 'flavour of the month' instructor could be the clone of the one we've got here!  First time I've ever seen anyone riding in draw reins only (ie - no 'proper' reins) was in a lesson with this person!  My RI and I nearly fell over laughing.  Can you imagine anything more stupid or dangerous???


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

My instructor said to use them at the girth on her sides not between her legs. X


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## JFTDWS (24 August 2011)

How peculiar, I could have sworn I'd seen a post by the op a few days ago where she claimed to have used them with great success on a previous horse.  I must be mistaken and I certainly can't be bothered to go back and check 

Y'know, draw reins are just one of those taboos on here, not worth the effort.  Sure, they're *not *ideal for teaching a horse to work properly for dressage, sure they *are *useful if your horse is trying to kill you, but you can also guarentee that half the teenagers out there using them don't really understand when to use them, when to leave them off, or even what they're trying to achieve with them.  I see a lot of them who actively aspire to have their horses notably behind the vertical and heavy on the forehand, because they genuinely think that's correct


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## perfect11s (24 August 2011)

JFTD said:



			How peculiar, I could have sworn I'd seen a post by the op a few days ago where she claimed to have used them with great success on a previous horse.  I must be mistaken and I certainly can't be bothered to go back and check 

Y'know, draw reins are just one of those taboos on here, not worth the effort.  Sure, they're *not *ideal for teaching a horse to work properly for dressage, sure they *are *useful if your horse is trying to kill you, but you can also guarentee that half the teenagers out there using them don't really understand when to use them, when to leave them off, or even what they're trying to achieve with them.  I see a lot of them who actively aspire to have their horses notably behind the vertical and heavy on the forehand, because they genuinely think that's correct 

Click to expand...

 I think the post was started as  grenade to liven up a boring  wednesday
surely no proper H&Her would use them in real life.... would they ????!!!!!!


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## Brambridge04 (24 August 2011)

God when will today end.....im literally feeling every second!


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## *hic* (24 August 2011)

JFTD said:



			How peculiar, I could have sworn I'd seen a post by the op a few days ago where she claimed to have used them with great success on a previous horse.  I must be mistaken and I certainly can't be bothered to go back and check 

Click to expand...

'Twas only the work of a few seconds. Yup, it was yesterday and then they were on the 5yo.


Brambridge04, thank you, have livened a lot of people's afternoons up, I suspect the worst is over but if you're feeling sensitive I suggest you switch the pc off and let this one drop. The rumblings will no doubt continue for a while but take heart because this is always an "interesting" subject and you say you are using them under instruction.


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## Mrs B (24 August 2011)

As far as I can see, draw reins are like any other piece of kit. 

Whether they are beneficial or not solely depends on how they are used and by whom.


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## Mince Pie (24 August 2011)

perfect11s said:



			I think the post was started as  grenade to liven up a boring  wednesday
surely no proper H&Her would use them in real life.... would they ????!!!!!!
		
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Yes, I do as a matter of fact!


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## jhoward (24 August 2011)

broke_but_happy said:



			Yes, I do as a matter of fact!
		
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agreed, the pessoa how ever I only use on the husband when the sod needs to wind his neck in and get his butt moving,


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## tristar (24 August 2011)

when you can ride properly you will not need draw reins, just accept that on some level you aint doin it right, but when you can you will understand the difference and the feeling you will get will stay with you for the rest of your life, and you too will not want to use draw reins because the ride you get will confirm correct training, the horse will show you by offering you a wonderful experience.

get an instructor who can train without draw reins, and more importantly can show you how to train a young horse, your horse properly, the whole horse not just its head position, that comes last, write that across you heart and one day you will understand.


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## Daddy_Long_Legs (24 August 2011)

jemima_too said:



			*pulls up a chair, makes flask of coffee, puts snacks within easy reach, grabs fags and ashtray and settles in*

Actually that might be premature, this would go much longer in CR!
		
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Lol!!

I hate draw reins too but if someone else wants to use them and can use them correctly I'm not going to tell them not to use them!


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

jhoward said:



			agreed, the pessoa how ever I only use on the husband when the sod needs to wind his neck in and get his butt moving,

Click to expand...

Now that is a brilliant idea!  Why haven't I thought about it before?


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## Mince Pie (24 August 2011)

tristar said:



			when you can ride properly you will not need draw reins, just accept that on some level you aint doin it right, but when you can you will understand the difference and the feeling you will get will stay with you for the rest of your life, and you too will not want to use draw reins because the ride you get will confirm correct training, the horse will show you by offering you a wonderful experience.

get an instructor who can train without draw reins, and more importantly can show you how to train a young horse, your horse properly, the whole horse not just its head position, that comes last, write that across you heart and one day you will understand.
		
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I am perfectly capable of producing a young horse thank you - the horse in question is 10 and I don't use them until AFTER a correct outline has been established.


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## martlin (24 August 2011)

broke_but_happy said:



			I am perfectly capable of producing a young horse thank you - the horse in question is 10 and I don't use them until AFTER a correct outline has been established.
		
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Pah, but have you written it across your heart? Because if not, it won't work


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## Daddy_Long_Legs (24 August 2011)

I've just gotten a lovely 4 year old in for schooling and she has supposed been broken.....well the first day I had her I lunged her, just saddle and bridle, well she took off flat to the mats with her head stuck to her chest. I am now going to have to fix what ever horrible gadget has done to her.....her owner paid for her to be professionally broken. So what counts for professionally broken nowadays?!!!!

Oh and backed and ridden are two entirely seperate things.....

I don't mind most gadgets if used correctly to the horse you are using them on!! ie if a horse doesn't go well in a bungee don't use it try and find something else....


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## Ranyhyn (24 August 2011)

I couldn't draw an outline, but I'll keep plugging along the right way.

I do agree that all too often proffessionally broken can be synonymous with gadget-ed to the hilt in order to facilitate a fast impressive looking turnaround to the naked eye, imo.


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## SpruceRI (24 August 2011)

tristar said:



			when you can ride properly you will not need draw reins,
		
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Blimey, I dare you to stand in the middle of the International warm up arena at Hickstead and shout that!!


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## OneInAMillion (24 August 2011)

Interesting read in this article

http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/gadgets.php


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## MiCsarah (24 August 2011)

This thread has just reminded me of a lady I used to see riding her horse aroud the village. She rides in draw reins attached to just under the saddleflaps. But the thing is she only uses these draw reins and no actual reins!!!!! I don't see how she would be able to stop


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## Kellys Heroes (24 August 2011)

I think the same goes for any 'gadget' - it depends who uses them, how and whether the horse actually needs them....I see far too many over-gadgeted horses with flashes/martingales/draw reins/side reins/stronger bits that are not needed. 
Personally I don't like gadgets, but wouldn't rule using them out if it was going to work...
I have seen an increase of people lately hacking out in draw reins (and even, popping a few jumps in them!)!
K x


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## spotty_pony (24 August 2011)

martlin said:



			It always amazes me how many people shout all evil at draw reins, but find market harborough or harbridge just fine... At least you can drop the contact on draw reins in seconds...
		
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This!


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## Kiribati_uk (24 August 2011)

Surely its not the gadget/bit that does the damage its the hands attached to it!!!!!! 
I've seen more damage done with a snaffle than with draw reins used correctly!!!!
I use gadgets but in moderation, but hey I also smack my horses so suppose im going straight to hell!!!!!


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## Elf On A Shelf (24 August 2011)

I ALWAYS use draw reins! I have a big highly strung tb who I can't control otherwise. He used to flat race so his head was always sky hig so I put the dr's on and hold onto them reeeeeeeeeeeaallllly tight so he can't move his nose off of his chest - result! I am in perfect control! His breathing has gone a bit wonky though, as though he has a broken pipe somewhere ...

Then I use them on y 17.2hh as he really is FAR too big for me and I have over horsed myself. I use them as breaks on him. Again as tight as I can get them then I have no trouble riding him. I jump him like this too as he started tanking off with me into fences.

I break and school my own natives and they all get lunged into the ground in pessoa's with draw reins on attached to the stirrup bars right from day one. I will have no head pokeyness and no nonsense! I only want perfectly schooled horses on my yard. I don't care if they don't like it or not they just have to get on with it else I bring out the lunge whip - that makes them all go forwards!

On a slightly less sarcastic note - what does everyone think of the old V man himself, Harvey Smith?


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## Renvers (24 August 2011)

Well OP you have learnt that your horse can work when asked differently from the previous aids given - not a judgement on your riding or gadgets. But sometimes use of a gadget is about confidence and finding an alternative to doing it the same old way and expecting different results. 

I hope you can use what you have learnt to have confidence working with the mare and knowing that she can work to a contact or whatever your specific issue was (read lots of posts since yours and mind fuzzy) and that she has the potential.

Not personally a fan of draw reins as in my show jumping youth I saw them abused to much - woo hoo the kid who told us all that if 'you tie a knot in them (quite far along) you can get the head in even further' :-((

Hate to see a horse with the break in the neck from them - don't tihnk any amount of correct schooling will never recover them from that.


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## BEUnderTheInfluence (24 August 2011)

The problem with draw reins is that they're only a temporary fix...what do you plan on doing at a competition? Its just avoiding the problem really....


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## Tnavas (24 August 2011)

jemima_too said:



			*pulls up a chair, makes flask of coffee, puts snacks within easy reach, grabs fags and ashtray and settles in*

Actually that might be premature, this would go much longer in CR!
		
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Do you have chocolate biscuits too - if so I might join you.


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## Marydoll (25 August 2011)

quirky said:



			Draw reins are the work of the devil .... apparently.

I'm sure you will be told why in no uncertain terms very soon .
		
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Pmsl .... Get ye behind me draw reins


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## Kokopelli (25 August 2011)

Shoot me now because I have used draw reins to get my lad to hack safely.

After 2/3 hacks with them he soon realised that it's not acceptable to try and bugger off on the road/ throw your head up and wack me in the face/ jog everywhere and generally just be a complete horror.

He now hacks without them fabulously, he still is a little spooky and joggy but nothing too bad. 

p.s I also skin cats.


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## tristar (25 August 2011)

i would stand in the international arena and say it,( i aint scared of nobody.)

though more scary , to say it on here?

would never miss an opportunity to support good training above any gadget and rollkur, even on a tongue in cheek thread.


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## horsegirl (25 August 2011)

I went to visit a dressage rider who competes at a very high level.  She was riding her horse in draw reins out on a hack, I make some comment to my partner about her use of draw reins and he, rightly, pointed out that she knows more about it than I do


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## LittleBlackMule (25 August 2011)

_Quote:
Originally Posted by tristar  
when you can ride properly you will not need draw reins,

Blimey, I dare you to stand in the middle of the International warm up arena at Hickstead and shout that!!  
_

Every year at the Royal International and the Derby I stand watching the warm up, loudly pointing out all the gadgets and the false outlines and saying "she can't ride, neither can she, and he definitely can't..." etc..

Okay not quite the middle of the warm up arena but I'm working up to it!


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## tristar (25 August 2011)

many years ago in dressage magazine, when interviewed, anky van grunsven said that although her horse was olympic  champîon he would not go to end of the road on a hack!

so i would'nt worry too much about the boyfriends opinion, your own instincts are probably nearer the truth.


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## RunToEarth (25 August 2011)

Everything in the wrong hands is dangerous, horses in the wrong hands are dangerous, doesn't stop the wealth of idiots on here though. 
I really do laugh hard at all the spectators commenting on international warm up arena tactics, it makes me cringe so much my ears hurt, and I wait for the day someone turns round and asks you exactly who you are, and why you think you are good enough to pass judgement.


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## Elf On A Shelf (25 August 2011)

I really am laughing now! Because someone rides their horse in draw reins they then automatically no longer know how to ride? WOW! I never knew that before!  

Draw Reins have a design and a purpose. As does Side Reins, Bungees, Pessoa's and all these other "Gadgets" you come across. Yes they are often misused by idiots - like the people who claim they are the only true riders in the world because they don't use them - but in the right hands they are a useful piece of kit. 

We use them in the racing yard to ENCOURAGE the horses to bring their heads down  so they can WORK through from their back end in their gallop work. The key words here are Encourage - we do not force, you can't force a horse to do something if it doesn't want to, and Work - half a tonne of energetic muscle ain't gonna be listening to no 91/2stone midget when they ask it to bring it's head down. It's usually the flat horses that have been brought into the yard that NEED the DR's as most of the carry their heads very high and they can not possibly work up our hills like that. Once the horses learn their new job and they discover that it is actually easier for the to lower their heads and gallop up into their bridles the DR's are removed as they are no longer necessary. Shock horror they are also occasionally used for jumping too. A horse that jumps at speed with it's head too high is very quickly a dead horse. So yes, we use them for the benefit and well being of the horses. 

The beauty of the Draw Rein is that you can work away with them and as soon as the horse get's the idea of what is being asked to do they can be dropped and work on your normal rein resumes. They are not a constant in the right hands. 

So maybe all of you "perfect riders" who don't need gadgets should actually take the time to learn about them and their uses before slating them and writing themoff completely.

More tea and biccies anyone


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## PolarSkye (25 August 2011)

RunToEarth said:



			Everything in the wrong hands is dangerous, horses in the wrong hands are dangerous, doesn't stop the wealth of idiots on here though. 
I really do laugh hard at all the spectators commenting on international warm up arena tactics, it makes me cringe so much my ears hurt, and I wait for the day someone turns round and asks you exactly who you are, and why you think you are good enough to pass judgement.
		
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THIS - most sensible post in this entire thread.

P


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## charlie76 (25 August 2011)

Ah, for the want of perfection,I would love the perfect horse, for me to have the perfect postion with perfect hands 100  % of the time but this is real life!
I use draw reins, not on a daily basis, but if we have horses in to school that have been wrecked by some one else or are just down right dangerous. We have one horse at the moment that would rear the moment you asked him to work in any form of an outline, said horse was checked to death by vet, phsyio, saddler, dentist ect ect but there was nothing wrong. He had just learnt to say sod off!
We rode him in draw reins for a while to show him and convince him on working correctly, this worked and he is now gaining 70% plus in his dressage tests. We still have them on stand by should he revert
I have also used them on a very spooky horse to get him to focus on me and his work rather than spooking and bogging off round the school.
The third example of when I have used them is on a horse who was VERY sharp to mount. as soon as your backside hit the saddle it would bog off, putting draw reins on for the moutning process stopped him being able to get his head up and bog off.


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## coen (25 August 2011)

Completely agree, there are circumstances where they are useful and if that is the case why not use them. 
Obviously I don't agree with people using them to pull there horses head to its chest.
But as said earlier lots of other gadgets are also used inappropriately.


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## horsegirl (25 August 2011)

LittleBlackMule said:



_Quote:
Originally Posted by tristar  
when you can ride properly you will not need draw reins,

Blimey, I dare you to stand in the middle of the International warm up arena at Hickstead and shout that!!  
_

Every year at the Royal International and the Derby I stand watching the warm up, loudly pointing out all the gadgets and the false outlines and saying "she can't ride, neither can she, and he definitely can't..." etc..

Okay not quite the middle of the warm up arena but I'm working up to it!
		
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It is hilarious when one overhears people like this.  If you can do better why aren't you riding there?


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## applecart14 (25 August 2011)

quirky said:



			Draw reins are the work of the devil .... apparently.

I'm sure you will be told why in no uncertain terms very soon .
		
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Ha you are so witty! 

Yes draw reins are a no no really.  Some people use them to control their horses on the roads (sounds good idea) but most people use them to create a false outline as BOF said.

I have to say about twice a year I hook my reins to my breast plate running martingale attachment to make a draw reins equivalent and have a ten minute session of pure heaven with my horse moving away from my leg like a PSG, attentive, lovely to ride, and feels sooo good.  But *only *twice a year before I become told in no uncertain terms too! 

Sadly much as it hurts (and sometimes it hurts like hell) there is no shortcut to good training.


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## tristar (25 August 2011)

HORSEGIRLY,  i said nothing of the sort, you have misquoted me,  the only bit i am guilty of is the 1st paragraph.!

what you said i said was actually what someone else said,

get yer specs on girl


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## mainpower (25 August 2011)

RunToEarth said:



			Everything in the wrong hands is dangerous, horses in the wrong hands are dangerous, doesn't stop the wealth of idiots on here though. 
I really do laugh hard at all the spectators commenting on international warm up arena tactics, it makes me cringe so much my ears hurt, and I wait for the day someone turns round and asks you exactly who you are, and why you think you are good enough to pass judgement.
		
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Don't you just love the armchair experts...

I hold up my hands and freely admit to being a crap rider on bargain basement horses, never got above Elementary with my cob, but he's a nobber to hack out alone (I'm not good enough to control his "Welsh" moments) so put draw reins on him to do so. They hang in festoons on his neck until we spot something monstrous then they are gathered up and I ride "agriculturally" past it. Then we resume sleeping mode!


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## GingerCat (25 August 2011)

broke_but_happy said:



			Prepares to be shot here but I love them too!
I school my cob in them once a fortnight in them and he goes like a dream. He does work from behind and he is not over bent. Oh and he won his last dressage test 

Click to expand...

For what purpose do you use them?

Someone once gave me some draw reins...I in turn gave them to my 7 year old daughter.....to use as a skipping rope!...the most useful purpose for them.


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## Evergreen (25 August 2011)

I hate them even though I've been tempted to give in and use them (I have some in my tack room) so far I never have. The only symptom my boy was showing of his very considerably bad bilateral bone spavin was to throw his head in the air. I could have forced him into an outline and into complying with draw reins, but the root of his problem would have remained unsolved. He did this intermittently for over a year and I was able to bring him beautifully round if I rode him daily so it shows that he was willing to work correctly despite the pain. At least now I know the cause of his evasion and do not feel guilty that I forced him to lower his head. I am not sure if his injections have worked but he only evaded the contact for a few minutes yesterday, before working beautifully in walk and trot. 

I can spot a horse that has worked in draw reins a mile off. I think it ruins them. I can understand their use by professionals wanting quick results as they do have the effect of temporarily lightening the horse. But it IS temporary. Horses that have been worked in draw reins regularly usually need stronger bits and more gadgets to ride effectively than those that haven't IME.


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## Queenbee (25 August 2011)

Wow, de ja vu anyone?  

Some people on here are so sanctamonious, just because you get an outline out of a horse without DRs it does not mean that they are not useful in aiding a horse to achieve a correct outline with the support of correct schooling and use of this aid.

What some people on here are saying is that if you can not ride your horse/ school without them then you can not ride.  This is akin to saying that if you can not make change your own tyre you can not drive a car!

When a young horse has a steering issue what do many people do?  They put it in a full cheek snaffle  to give it added support and clearer aids.

This is no different.

Many of the aids/ gadgets that we use are used because they amplify what we want to communicate with the horse:
Whips,
Spurs,
Bits
Draw Reins

To name but a few, these have the effect of a loud speaker, and us as riders are in control of the volume.  It is our use of the volume of these aids that causes the problems.  People who have an in depth understanding of the 'gadgets' know that too much volume in the first instance will cause discomfort and false outlines but that correct and sympathetic use of them is effective, the level of use can be 'turned down' even further in volume over time as the horse adjusts, develops and understands what is being asked.  The draw reins, if used correctly are not a 'quick fix' but help the horse in its transition to understand and respond to the communication from the rider alone.


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## Spotsrock (25 August 2011)

my mare works long and low in hers. I ride in a bareback pad and can feel her back working nicely. I only use them very occassionally though.


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## tristar (25 August 2011)

if you need draw reins to hack  out you should'nt be on the road?

or maybe better to include a parachute, one of those car inflatable airbag things, and one those bungy elastics, so the horse can't run off, but it will be one hell of a tangle by the time you get it all back together.


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## GingerCat (25 August 2011)

queenbee said:



			What some people on here are saying is that if you can not ride your horse/ school without them then you can not ride.  This is akin to saying that if you can not make change your own tyre you can not drive a car!
		
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No if you couldn't change your own tyre, you'd take it to a garage where there would be people who could. And then you'd make sure that you learnt change a flat before you get another puncture!

If you can ride but can't school your horse confused then you should seek advice from someone more knowledgable and they in turn should be able to help you without the need for force....and make no mistake that's what DR do, force the horses head down and in. 

Like someone else has said you can spot a horse that's been ridden in DR a mile off.


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## mainpower (25 August 2011)

tristar said:



			if you need draw reins to hack  out you should'nt be on the road?

or maybe better to include a parachute, one of those car inflatable airbag things, and one those bungy elastics, so the horse can't run off, but it will be one hell of a tangle by the time you get it all back together.
		
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If that was aimed at me... I never mentioned the road....


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## martlin (25 August 2011)

tristar said:



			if you need draw reins to hack  out you should'nt be on the road?

or maybe better to include a parachute, one of those car inflatable airbag things, and one those bungy elastics, so the horse can't run off, but it will be one hell of a tangle by the time you get it all back together.
		
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Blimey, you are a bit evangelical, aren't you?


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## Brambridge04 (25 August 2011)

I must say this thread is good!


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## tristar (25 August 2011)

evangelical, had to look that one up in the old dictionary, harraps to be exact, and i quote, evangelical - 'preaching to the heathens'  lol!


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## Brambridge04 (25 August 2011)

Whars a heathen?


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## tristar (25 August 2011)

mainpower, sorry but i've never heard of you before.

heathens, same dictionary, and i quote 'people who are simple and primitive, lost in ignorance'  i am sure that does not apply to anyone on here!


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## Ranyhyn (25 August 2011)

Apart from me


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## horsegirl (25 August 2011)

tristar said:



			HORSEGIRLY,  i said nothing of the sort, you have misquoted me,  the only bit i am guilty of is the 1st paragraph.!

what you said i said was actually what someone else said,

get yer specs on girl
		
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I know, it's just the way it quoted it.  I don't know who said they stand there and point out people who can't ride


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## sane_and_sensible (25 August 2011)

All items of tack / training aids etc can be used badly.  The key is to never use a particular item when you are emotional - only when it is the logical choice.  And to use it as a means to an end, with a very clear train of thought in your head as to WHY you are using soemthing, HOW you will use it - and most importantly - a clear plan for how you will work to a point where you no longer require it.

Do those of you who claim draw reins are evil also say the same for whips and spurs?  I've seen far more people absuing their horses with these than draw reins.....

Echo the same arguement against using a bit other than a snaffle - never mind that using a stronger bit correctly is far kinder than using a snaffle harshly.

Sometimes (and more often than not in my experience) people do actually care about their horses and whilst, yes, in an ideal world we would all have the time, experience and facilities to bring our horses on in such a manner as to never need to use a "gadget" - that just isn't realistic.  Whether because you have inherited someone elses problems, or you have a difficult horse that doesn't understand that it is supposed to behave perfectly because it is given the luxury of being ridden in a snaffle with no martingale / draw reins / stick / spurs (pick whichever is your chosen implement of torture).  Horses have their own minds and some DO choose to just be a bit naughty - and sometimes a short spell of draw reins / stronger bit / stick / spurs reminds them that in fact you are in charge.

As for those of you who think you are clever for criticizing those doing better than you in the competitive sphere..... maybe a touch of the old green eyed monster?  If (you think) you can ride so much better than those out there doing well.... why aren't you?  Yes, undoubtedly there are riders who have got there in spite of their lack of ability, but most work hard and produce good work and horses - and quite often have used "gadgets" as a means to an end.

I am very glad that so many of you are such wonderful riders though that you can get on any horse and instantly have it transform into a picture of utter serenity and harmony in a simple snaffle and not need to resort to any gadgets.

I also rather like how so many of you who claim to be the above have used signature pictures containing horses in martingales, or being ridden by you in spurs or carrying a stick.  Thats a nice touch to make the mere mortals amongst us feel more at home.


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## Circe (26 August 2011)

tristar said:



			heathens, same dictionary, and i quote 'people who are simple and primitive, lost in ignorance'  i am sure that does not apply to anyone on here!
		
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I'm a heathen... or so i'm told 

on the subject of draw reins, I dont use them myself but Ive seen my old YM use them with good effect on OTT racehorses, who need a bit of help to understand bringing their heads down.
I think draw reins have a use, and if used sympathetically, ( not to pull the head into an "outline" ) I dont see the problem.

Kx


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## tristar (26 August 2011)

i've just reschooled an ex racehorse, by shifting the balance a lot further back, only tools need were longer leg position, upright body position very soft hands, gentle seat,  transitions, shoulder-in, the horse is sensational to ride, like any good tb, the horse did this on his own, he just had the opportunity.


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## Aces_High (26 August 2011)

Going against the grain, all of my yearlings and 2 yr olds are broken in using side reins.....  Every horse is riding out in a martingale.....  
Maybe after nearly 20 years of breaking in horses I should change what has worked extremely well and safely as it's deemed kinder to the horse!!! 

Aidan O'Brien has all of his horses over the winter being ridden in draw reins.  Does this now make him a terrible trainer??  I would certainly beg to differ - he's an outstanding horseman and has a unique understanding of every horse in his care.


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## tristar (26 August 2011)

never heard of using side reins on yearlings  before, what is the benefit of that?

does aidan o'brien use his his draw reins on yearlings and 2 year olds?


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## Mince Pie (26 August 2011)

GingerCat said:



			For what purpose do you use them?

Someone once gave me some draw reins...I in turn gave them to my 7 year old daughter.....to use as a skipping rope!...the most useful purpose for them. 

Click to expand...

I use them because he concentrates more and I can the really focus on his lateral work and  canter work.


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## Mince Pie (26 August 2011)

sane_and_sensible said:



			All items of tack / training aids etc can be used badly.  The key is to never use a particular item when you are emotional - only when it is the logical choice.  And to use it as a means to an end, with a very clear train of thought in your head as to WHY you are using soemthing, HOW you will use it - and most importantly - a clear plan for how you will work to a point where you no longer require it.

Do those of you who claim draw reins are evil also say the same for whips and spurs?  I've seen far more people absuing their horses with these than draw reins.....

Echo the same arguement against using a bit other than a snaffle - never mind that using a stronger bit correctly is far kinder than using a snaffle harshly.

Sometimes (and more often than not in my experience) people do actually care about their horses and whilst, yes, in an ideal world we would all have the time, experience and facilities to bring our horses on in such a manner as to never need to use a "gadget" - that just isn't realistic.  Whether because you have inherited someone elses problems, or you have a difficult horse that doesn't understand that it is supposed to behave perfectly because it is given the luxury of being ridden in a snaffle with no martingale / draw reins / stick / spurs (pick whichever is your chosen implement of torture).  Horses have their own minds and some DO choose to just be a bit naughty - and sometimes a short spell of draw reins / stronger bit / stick / spurs reminds them that in fact you are in charge.

As for those of you who think you are clever for criticizing those doing better than you in the competitive sphere..... maybe a touch of the old green eyed monster?  If (you think) you can ride so much better than those out there doing well.... why aren't you?  Yes, undoubtedly there are riders who have got there in spite of their lack of ability, but most work hard and produce good work and horses - and quite often have used "gadgets" as a means to an end.

I am very glad that so many of you are such wonderful riders though that you can get on any horse and instantly have it transform into a picture of utter serenity and harmony in a simple snaffle and not need to resort to any gadgets.

I also rather like how so many of you who claim to be the above have used signature pictures containing horses in martingales, or being ridden by you in spurs or carrying a stick.  Thats a nice touch to make the mere mortals amongst us feel more at home.
		
Click to expand...

Like!


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## Aces_High (26 August 2011)

tristar said:



			never heard of using side reins on yearlings  before, what is the benefit of that?

does aidan o'brien use his his draw reins on yearlings and 2 year olds?
		
Click to expand...

I always break everthing in with side reins on as a matter of course.  The breakers I have/had just happen to be yearlings or 2 yr olds.  My reasoning is that it's important to have had a contact on the bit and the side reins offer this.  Most of the sales prepped yearlings have all be lunged prior to the sales and again will generally be lunged rollered and with side reins.

O'Brien has the "older" horses out over the winter in running reins.  So it would be the horses going into their 3rd year and then whatever 4/5 yr olds etc are there.


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## TheSylv007 (26 August 2011)

Brilliant post


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## TheSylv007 (26 August 2011)

broke_but_happy said:



			Like!
		
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oops, meant this


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## _MizElz_ (26 August 2011)

xspiralx said:



			Draw reins are an extremely useful tool in the right hands.
		
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I totally agree. Used badly, they are, indeed, horrific. Used correctly and sympathetically, they can be invaluable.


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## Suechoccy (26 August 2011)

12 pages is impressive

(...pulls up a chair and opens a pack of chocolate hobnobs)


Can we do barefoot versus shoeing next please?

and then horsenality versus traditional?

etc

etc


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## Damnation (26 August 2011)

I use draw reins probibily every 8 weeks.
Mare puts her head up, sets her jaw, and RUNS and I can't do a damned thing about it. I use them as a reminder of how to behave  I only use them for about 10 mins in the middle of the schooling session (I warm her up with them doing nothing, same with cooling down!). I then loosen them back off once she is "reminded". She never has an overly high tense head carriage and she never goes behind the verticle. I use them to help me maintain a rhythm. If anyone shoots me down for it I challange them to come ride my horse and see what they then think 

Oh and pass us the fags if they are still going


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## Brambridge04 (26 August 2011)

Suechoccy said:



			12 pages is impressive

(...pulls up a chair and opens a pack of chocolate hobnobs)


Can we do barefoot versus shoeing next please?

and then horsenality versus traditional?

etc

etc
		
Click to expand...


EXCUSE ME! 16 PAGES  

For next weeks, "midweek mayhem" i will have a corker for you, maybe my "midweek mayhem" can be a release for us all who are bored stupid!


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## Tifferss (26 August 2011)

**piles tables chairs and large sturdy objects up for protection and asks....**

"Stuff side reins.....what do you think about Parelli....?"

Runawaaaaaaaaaaaaaay........


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## Brambridge04 (26 August 2011)

Tifferss!  how abt fully shod, with draw reins whilst attempting parelli!! Compliance? ?


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## Tifferss (26 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			Tifferss!  how abt fully shod, with draw reins whilst attempting parelli!! Compliance? ?
		
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Without a hat........


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## Brambridge04 (26 August 2011)

Or body protector


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## JFTDWS (26 August 2011)

If someone would lend me a carrot stick, I'll get a photo of me doing that to my cob (maybe on a hack without hi vis?) for next week's midweek mayhem?  The forum might implode during the ensuing battle though


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## Brambridge04 (26 August 2011)

Jftd only if u trot a high speed down road at the same time....i will lend u camera....


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## JFTDWS (26 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			Jftd only if u trot a high speed down road at the same time....i will lend u camera....
		
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Sure, he won't mind - he's done worse in all the years he was owned by some daft teenager - no worries on the camera front, I have a multitude of the damn things, it's just the carrot stick I need a loan of


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## Brambridge04 (26 August 2011)

What about a carrot stuck to a broom handle? Best offer im afraid.....


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## JFTDWS (26 August 2011)

I can stick one on the end of a schooling whip?!


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## Brambridge04 (26 August 2011)

Exactly. Lets start our own "cheap parelli knockoffs" ebay shop. This time next year we"ll be millionairres. X


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## tristar (26 August 2011)

a quicker route to that million might be, if you can that is, show people a way of  riding that,  gets the result they are looking for without draw reins and all the other crap


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## Brambridge04 (26 August 2011)

But but but but that was an amazing idea i had. And along u came and peed in my corn flakes. Shame on u.


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## tristar (26 August 2011)

corn flakes at 4.0  in the afternoon!    aint life shxte


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## Allover (26 August 2011)

Brambridge04 said:



			Jftd only if u trot a high speed down road at the same time....i will lend u camera....
		
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See if u can get a friend to come with you too and dont forget your mobiles!!!


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## Brambridge04 (26 August 2011)

Lol, Cornflakes at 4pm in the afternoon to line my tummy for the pub! wooo hooo.


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## GingerCat (26 August 2011)

I see some of you aren't taking this discussion seriously 
	
	
		
		
	


	





And put those fags out *coughcough*, can't you read the No Smoking signs?


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## MrsMozart (27 August 2011)

Blast! I keep missing all the fun ones  And I've probably missed the biscuits by now 

My only, possibly sensible input is, horse's for courses.

*and on that telling phrase, she wanders out of the thread in search of biccies*


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## tristar (27 August 2011)

mrs mozart you are music to my ears.


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