# Bit advice- how to use a pelham correctly?



## littlen (28 November 2010)

Following on from my last post I am going to try horse back in a pelham for a week and see if he settles in this bit. The main problem I have is girraffe head and being very strong and evasive, hence changing from a snaffle as I dont feel safe.

The two bits that have been suggested are the gag and pelham. Out of the 2 I think pelham would be more helpful to lower his head am I right?

I am going to try at first with nothing else, no noseband or martingale (at the moment he is in a market harborough and flash/grackle) so I can see exactly how he goes is this right or would you just change the bit at first, I am aware I cant use flash etc now 

I have ridden in a pelham before but only using roundings. Everyone on my yard is very very against putting my horse in a pelham as they say it will ruin him as he is very sensitive, has anyone else used a pelham on a sensitive horse? He does not need it most of the time, but when he goes he goes if that makes any sense!! Shall I use roundings or double reins, bearing in mind ive never used 2 reins before and dont have an instructor to teach me...
Finally, how would I go about teaching him to work correctly in it. Obviously with schooling but how do I know how much curb to use and when? 
thanks


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## dafthoss (28 November 2010)

I would book a lesson with an instructor so they can show you how to use two reins correctly


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## Sarah Sum1 (28 November 2010)

Are you planning on riding him it all the time? Only I would advise against that. I would also book a lesson (must be an instructor in your area) especially as he has a sensitive mouth. Perhaps more schooling lessons in a snaffle would help, rather than resorting to a stronger bit first. 

Good luck


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## littlen (28 November 2010)

sarah sum1 said:



			Are you planning on riding him it all the time? Only I would advise against that. I would also book a lesson (must be an instructor in your area) especially as he has a sensitive mouth. Perhaps more schooling lessons in a snaffle would help, rather than resorting to a stronger bit first. 

Good luck 

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Thanks, I do school him but unfortunatley he does not seem to get on with any snaffle and needs a bit with some degree of poll pressure in order to avoid him smacking me in the face out of excitement. He is also very strong and I dont feel safe in one hacking etc.

I have had an instructor previously...only at the moment I simply cannot afford more lessons and cant justify £20 per half an hour instruction (horse costs less than that per week )

ETA. yes I want a bit to ride him in permenantly, sick of swapping and changing and if he gets on with it then I will stick to it, I have light hands and its got to be better than hauling in a snaffle?


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## Meowy Catkin (28 November 2010)

Could you borrow a Kimblewick to try? It is really out of fashion but is actually a very useful bit. 







Myler comfort snaffles (with hooks) are also good with sensitive mouthed horses. My mare changed (lowered) her head instantly with this bit and also takes the contact better. It is possible that this will be too mild for him but if you can borrow one it's well worth trying.







Remember that it really is best to use two reins with both Pelhams and Gags. It is a good skill to have (using two reins) and it really isn't hard if someone could show you how.


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## LizzyandToddy (28 November 2010)

Might sound odd. But have you tried a straightbar rubber snaffle? My horse is quite sensitive and seems to get on with this well. It also is the same mouthpiece as the pelham, but obviously without the curb.

I ride in a pelham to jump/hunt, but stick with the rubber snaffle for schooling... I recogmend you ask your instructor about using double reins, I could advise as I ride with them rather than roundings, but its better when you have someone assessing the horses reaction at the same time...

I would try the snaffle first though, a pelham won't ruin your horses mouth if you use it correctly, but if as you say your horse is more used to a snaffle then it may be a little severe to start with really - may cause opposite effect to the desired!


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## emm0r (28 November 2010)

Look up wilkie bits they are good  not as harsh as pelham but have poll pressure


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## littlen (28 November 2010)

Off to research kimblewick now lol!

I have tried a rubber snaffle and he was hopeless in it, along with french line snaffle, hangling cheeck snaffle, jointed and straight bar snaffles, a waterford a dutch gag and a hackamore. Nothing seems to work as its a learnt behaviour.

He does drop into an outline after around about 40-60 mins of hard schooling but soon starts again with the giraffe impressions. I understand that its difficult for him but even with lots of topline work etc he still never 'got' the idea of outline.

The reason someone suggested a pelham was so that I could pretty much stick to the snaffle ring, using the curb to encourage him to lower the head a little? Sounds like it could work only I have never used double reins before.
Most of the time he is well behaved but given the oppertunity he will explode (plunges, rears and will take off) and I dont fancy my chances in any type of snaffle. I also dont think schooling will correct this as it is pure excitement!

He has got a pretty sensitive mouth but I am sure using a pelham with light hands must be better than hauling on any other sort of bit?


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## tallyho! (28 November 2010)

You use just as a double.

One set of riens on the snaffle and one on the curb. 

The curb is used only when required. 

never use jointed pelhams and avoid roundings. 

If in doubt - ask Heather Moffett.


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## tallyho! (28 November 2010)

Faracat said:



			Could you borrow a Kimblewick to try? It is really out of fashion but is actually a very useful bit. 







Myler comfort snaffles (with hooks) are also good with sensitive mouthed horses. My mare changed (lowered) her head instantly with this bit and also takes the contact better. It is possible that this will be too mild for him but if you can borrow one it's well worth trying.







Remember that it really is best to use two reins with both Pelhams and Gags. It is a good skill to have (using two reins) and it really isn't hard if someone could show you how.
		
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Good idea.


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## Meowy Catkin (28 November 2010)

The kimblewick might be good, as it was normally used on strong ponies with little riders who would never cope with a pelham and double reins. 

ETA. Thanks Tallyho  It's nice to know that I have had at least one good idea!


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## littlen (28 November 2010)

Faracat said:



			The kimblewick might be good, as it was normally used on strong ponies with little riders who would never cope with a pelham and double reins. 

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Sounds like me lol, except I am no child I am afraid 

I would like to learn the double rein thing as it sounds like it could be nicer to ride off the snaffle only using the curb when neccessary, only in reality is the top rein of a pelham really equal to a snaffle or is it still quite harsh without the curb?

Strangely enough ive been researching and it seems some of the classically trained horses are ridden in pelhams regulally and seem to still be sensitive, obviously I am not as good as them but it shows it dosent have to be a harsh bit?


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## Lollii (28 November 2010)

I use a pelham on my horse, he is not strong in a snaffle just uncomfortable, in the pelham (and roundings) he is so light and responsive, you don't really need to touch his mouth, he just drops his head and the slightest touch and he moves, it was such a relief for both of us when we found it!

I use a mullen mouth snaffle for dressage as it is the nearest mouth piece I can find.


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## tallyho! (28 November 2010)

littlen said:



			I would like to learn the double rein thing as it sounds like it could be nicer to ride off the snaffle only using the curb when neccessary, only in reality is the top rein of a pelham really equal to a snaffle or is it still quite harsh without the curb?

Strangely enough ive been researching and it seems some of the classically trained horses are ridden in pelhams regulally and seem to still be sensitive, obviously I am not as good as them but it shows it dosent have to be a harsh bit?
		
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So easy -  give yourself a day and maybe two, you'll feel wierd having one rein.

The top rein is exactly equal to a snaffle - just think of it's position and like I say do not use a JOINTED pelham - defeats the object completely entirely (too many ly's??? too much sherry) as lets think a mo... a jointed shank.... with a curb... ouch and any direct aid negated... what a waste.

Oh well, I do like that you have been looking at classical. I have high hope for you madam! 

p.s. faracat, you have endless good ideas you don't say it often enough! xx


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## littlen (28 November 2010)

tallyho! said:



			So easy -  give yourself a day and maybe two, you'll feel wierd having one rein.

The top rein is exactly equal to a snaffle - just think of it's position and like I say do not use a JOINTED pelham - defeats the object completely entirely (too many ly's??? too much sherry) as lets think a mo... a jointed shank.... with a curb... ouch and any direct aid negated... what a waste.

Oh well, I do like that you have been looking at classical. I have high hope for you madam! 

p.s. faracat, you have endless good ideas you don't say it often enough! xx
		
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Well, I dont think I will ever make classical but we can dream eh!
What sort of pelham would be best? A friend has given me 3 that may fit. 2 I believe are joined so we will avoid those? The third is a straight bar rugby pelham...
perhaps I should ebay a ported one?


Lolli thats nice to hear, I have hope!!

So, at the risk of sounding stupid. I hold the reins crossed over dont I? Curb at the top?


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## hessy12 (28 November 2010)

I use a pelham on my lad, who was too strong in Myler comfort snaffle. He goes like a dream in the pelham. At the end of the day, you need to be able to stop the horse and if he doesn't listen to  a snaffle (or all the other bits) you have tried) then try a pelham. In the right (ie, gentle) hands, they are a good bit. 
 I hardly, hardly ever have to use it to stop. He is also a sensitive boy but gets on very well with this bit. I think using D-rings (roundings) on a pelham is fine but of course using two reins would be the best thing to do. Good luck.


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## Lollii (28 November 2010)

I use a mullen mouth pelham, with one rein and roundings, this works for us as he is so light in it but if you do have two reins, try using them crossed over, but you don't have too. 

It's just what is easier for you to have the snaffle rein as the main rein with the curb rein as your 2nd rein, what ever is more comfortable.


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## AndySpooner (28 November 2010)

Couple of things you may like to consider before you go down the route of trying to find a different or stronger bit.

If your horse is playing up, evading, putting his tongue over, in a french link, then the feedback he is giving you is that there is something wrong. To go to stronger bits is ignoring his signals.

I note that you say that you have light hands, then mention hauling on the snaffle, perhaps your hands are not as light as you imagine.

Try to concentrate on riding with your seat rather than attempting to get him to come down on the bit, you need to have him lift his back, rather than lower his head.

I've not explained myself very well I feel, but, what I'm trying to say is consider what you are doing rather than thinking its the horse.


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## littlen (28 November 2010)

AndySpooner said:



			Couple of things you may like to consider before you go down the route of trying to find a different or stronger bit.

If your horse is playing up, evading, putting his tongue over, in a french link, then the feedback he is giving you is that there is something wrong. To go to stronger bits is ignoring his signals.

I note that you say that you have light hands, then mention hauling on the snaffle, perhaps your hands are not as light as you imagine.

Try to concentrate on riding with your seat rather than attempting to get him to come down on the bit, you need to have him lift his back, rather than lower his head.

I've not explained myself very well I feel, but, what I'm trying to say is consider what you are doing rather than thinking its the horse.
		
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Hi Andy,

I feel I do have light hands however when one rather large 15hh horse is tanking off with me over a field while broncing, yes I do haul as hard as I can to get him to stop... 
I dont normally ride heavily handed, although at times I admittedly have to take a stronger hold to stop him.  I am able to pretty much block him with my seat but in moments of excitement I am more concentrating on not flying over his head and not blocking him with my seat 

I have had hours of instruction with this horse and have spent weeks in the school but its a concept he just cannot get. Its as though he is not made to go into an outline. Other riders more experienced than myself also have found this and in all honesty he is getting older and I have not got the time to school him for 60mins before going on a 10min hack just to keep him under control. He dosent have the correct muscle but I cannot build it as he wont work properly, catch 22! I have tried lunging in the past but found it made little or no difference except wound him up more. He is a full height rearer so I dont want to push his buttons if I can help it.

I dont feel he is in pain at all. He only exhibits this behaviour when he feels like it. For example, in exciting situations or if he is scared/stressed. Surely if he was in pain he would be like this all of the time, he wouldnt just be badly behaved when he feels like it?

He evades in all bits...even bitless as I have tried a hackamore so I am not sure what else he would like lol? I have had his back, teeth and even eyesight checked and there is nothing at all physically wrong. Likewise his tack is all spot on.

I am not actively looking for a stronger bit, I just want a bit where I can use it to my advantage to lower his head and feel safer.  I am not looking for a quick fix as such but if it works I am happy to use it 

ETA: I dont think he evades with tounge over the bit, Just puts his head higher and higher to the point he smacks me in the face?!


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## YorksG (28 November 2010)

I use a myler pelham, it has the same mouthpiece as the comfort snaffle. It works well on an Appy who had an upside down head, as long as it is used in conjunction with lots of transitions etc. I would not personally use roundings, as I feel it negates the point. Pelhams are not, of themselves, strong bits IMO and can be far less problematic than a so called mild bit, which you have to use too much hand with. I would recomend that you have a look at how to hold the reins on the web and give it a go.


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## kazhar (28 November 2010)

try it and see.....I held of trying one on mine and once I had, I only wished I had tried it sooner, as I always thought it would be too much, as he is very touchy with his mouth. I prob tried most snaffles with him, including mylers, which were an improvement. whilst he wouldnt run off, he could pull like stink. in a pelham he is so much more relaxed, and stops with a slght squeeze of the fingers. head naturally lower and just uses himself in a better way. I do use two reins but to be honest, I have never actually had to use the curb reian , it is just there if required. he only has a little mouth, and definately prefers the mullen mouth type, I tried a ported one but he was not so keen.


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## katherine1975 (28 November 2010)

tallyho! said:



			You use just as a double.

One set of riens on the snaffle and one on the curb. 

The curb is used only when required. 

never use jointed pelhams and avoid roundings. 

If in doubt - ask Heather Moffett.
		
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Please could you tell me why you shouldn't use a jointed pelham. My mare is usually ridden in a Myler comfort snaffle and I am hoping to take her hunting at some point this season. Was thinking of using a french link pelham so that the action on one rein is similar to her normal bit and then I have got more control if I need it.


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## AndySpooner (28 November 2010)

littlen said:



			Hi Andy,

I feel I do have light hands however when one rather large 15hh horse is tanking off with me over a field while broncing, yes I do haul as hard as I can to get him to stop... 
I dont normally ride heavily handed, although at times I admittedly have to take a stronger hold to stop him.  I am able to pretty much block him with my seat but in moments of excitement I am more concentrating on not flying over his head and not blocking him with my seat 

I have had hours of instruction with this horse and have spent weeks in the school but its a concept he just cannot get. Its as though he is not made to go into an outline. Other riders more experienced than myself also have found this and in all honesty he is getting older and I have not got the time to school him for 60mins before going on a 10min hack just to keep him under control. He dosent have the correct muscle but I cannot build it as he wont work properly, catch 22! I have tried lunging in the past but found it made little or no difference except wound him up more. He is a full height rearer so I dont want to push his buttons if I can help it.

I dont feel he is in pain at all. He only exhibits this behaviour when he feels like it. For example, in exciting situations or if he is scared/stressed. Surely if he was in pain he would be like this all of the time, he wouldnt just be badly behaved when he feels like it?

He evades in all bits...even bitless as I have tried a hackamore so I am not sure what else he would like lol? I have had his back, teeth and even eyesight checked and there is nothing at all physically wrong. Likewise his tack is all spot on.

I am not actively looking for a stronger bit, I just want a bit where I can use it to my advantage to lower his head and feel safer.  I am not looking for a quick fix as such but if it works I am happy to use it 

ETA: I dont think he evades with tounge over the bit, Just puts his head higher and higher to the point he smacks me in the face?!
		
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Please do not feel as though you are being critisized, because this is not what it's about. It is very difficult to offer advice when you haven't seen the problem, but, all these sort of forums are for, is just to give folk ideas, perhaps mention something they have not thought of, certainly not to try and provide long range solutions to everything. 

Interesting that he still puts his head up like that with no bit. Horses tend to move into pressure unless taught otherwise, perhaps its the poll pressure he's objecting to. Also, it's a pet project of mine but, his diet could affect this behaviour, particularly if he is sugar intolerant. One of mine was down right dangerous until her diet was sorted and now behaves excellently when ridden.


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## Janette (28 November 2010)

The problem with a jointed pelham is that it negates the action of the curb.
When you use the reins, the mouthpiece 'gives'..... this allows the curb chain to slacken and not have any action.


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## kirstie (28 November 2010)

Can I just add that a myler pelham is also very good. My old horse used to be very strong jumping, pure adrenaline and excitement. A 'normal' rubber pelham was too strong for him, but the myler was just that bit less severe and he really seemed to like it and go forwards into a good contact, not too light or tucked behind the bit.


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## Bertthefrog (28 November 2010)

Any bit will be ineffective if his head is getting above horizontal. I recently ridden a youngster that stuck its head in the air, shut its eyes and ran (fun!).

A mate of mine suggested a standing martingale and it really helped - as it only came in to action when the horse threw its head up and the action was instantaneous - giving the horse the impression that it had brought on the action itself.

I know you can't jump and compete in a standing - but it may help schooling?


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## Hal1k1 (29 November 2010)

I have been considering using a pelham as well as mine loves aping a giraffe when he gets excited.  when I got him he had a martingale but also one of the stiffest necks I have ever seen.

I also think that diet has a lot to answer for.  Get it right and behaviour problems can almost disappear.

Oh what a joy!  Just when you think everything is going well a horse will find some other challenge to throw into the mix.  But at least I am never bored!


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