# Handling Foal - Please help!



## danni3 (16 June 2011)

Hi

My colt - Now named Toby! Is 5 days old, he's proving to be a very lively young boy with plenty of attitude!!

I've had horses many years but this is my first foal so if you could just help with a couple of things I'd be very grateful!

When do you start to halter train them and at a few days old how much handling are you doing?

At first I couldn't get near him properly as my mare blocked him from me the first couple days so I thought it was best to just leave him alone, now she isn't so bothered and let's me near him. I could touch his head and face without him moving but if I moved onto his body he would run off behind his mum. Today however he's much braver, he comes over to me but the only way I can get him to stand and let me touch him is if I let him nip at my arms, he's no teeth so it doesn't hurt but should I be allowing this? Then if I try to move my hands from his head along body he turns his bum and kicks out or rears up at me. 

I keep trying a few times throughout the day, just spending 5 mins each time with him but I don't know how to even attempt getting a halter on when he won't let me near him without trying to jump on me or kick!

I've entered him for the Futurity at Solihull and now I'm doubting myself whether I'm going to be able to get ready in time for it - maybe I should have left it this year! I know a lot can happen in 8 weeks but I'm so nervous about going as it is so i need to be as prepared as possible!


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## Spring Feather (17 June 2011)

You'll be fine, don't worry   Foals always come around in the end if you keep spending 5 minutes here and there a number of times a day.

I always halter foals within a few hours of foaling and I touch them all over soon after birth.  I spend quite a lot of time with my foals during the first couple of days and then usually that's it, you have them eating out of your hand and seeking you out to give them their scratches.

You haven't done this so it may take a little longer to get to grips with being their buddy or having them trust you.  Your mare did not help by shunning you in the first couple of days, and that is something that I would have overridden and moved the mare out of the way or held her so that I could have access to the foal.  However what's done is done and really it's no big deal if you are prepared to spend a little more time with your colt over the next week or so.

My advice would be to just sit in the stable with them.  Foals are incredibly nosy!!  I can almost guarantee that if you just sit there, he will come over to you.  Rub his nose and up his lower jaw.  Take your time, don't rush him.  Once you get him close enough to reach his chest, give gentle scratches there.  Foal usually love this area being rubbed.  Other places they like are their backs and the crest of their necks, but do be careful when scratching there at this age of under 2/3 weeks as some have a propensity to whip round to try to kick you.  They don't usually do this after the 2/3 week stage.

I don't teach to lead until my foals are about 2 weeks old although many breeders do start teaching it earlier than this.  I don't think it really matters when you teach it so long as you go about it in the correct way and don't frighten them.  I do however teach them hold pretty much from Day 1 though.

You do need to get a halter on really as this will jumpstart your handling of him.  You need another person to help you do this.  Have the other person hold him with one arm around his chest and one around his bottom, then you get to his head and put the halter on.  Hold onto the halter, with your helper still in position, and rub him all over.  When he's happy with you doing this then gently release him in a calm manner so as not to have him run away from you.  Leave it a few minutes, give the mare some loving, then go back and give him a rub/scratch and leave.

You have plenty of time to get him ready for the futurity so don't panic


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## JanetGeorge (17 June 2011)

I do it rather differently to Spring Feather - as I have a lot of foals here, some short stay (with mares coming to be covered) and they HAVE to be held and led from day 1.  For leading I use a tea-towel around the neck and a bum-rope - they bounce a bit - and some buck - but you hang on.  They learn they can't 'escape' - and they learn it doesn't hurt.

I put a foal slip on at 4-5 days - but I don't lead off it for several weeks.  I use the lead rope around the neck - and the bum rope.  That makes the job easy and safe.  When covering mares, obviously the foals have to be kept safely away from the action - but the mare has to be able to see them of she won't concentate on business.

I don't permit nipping or kicking - at any age.  What is 'cute' and 'harmless' in a 2 day old foal hurts like hell and could kill you when he's a strapping big yearling!!


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## Dry Rot (17 June 2011)

Interesting replies!  My own impression of breeding a few foals is that it is not so important when you handle them (thopugh that is important) but how that handling is done. Good experiences are very important and negative experiences can be remembered for life. I've given up head collaring foals from a few days old and now leave lead training until weaning. I've found gentle "pressure and release" works very quickly at a few months of age if my timing is correct and older foals soon learn to come for a scratch over a gate, then it is all quite easy. From a scratch I can eventually move on to a full grooming.

I am sure the timing of experiences of a young animal is also important. It is well known that learning in a youngster is very rapid at certain stages of development (critical periods) and that later these ideas can become fixed. Plenty of human examples of that! Also, it takes time for the brain to mature enough for the animal to have the ability to work out some simple problems. No point in trying to teach any animal to do things its brain is simply not mature enough to comprehend.

One mare had a very weak foal which had to be helped to the udder every few hours and then topped up from a bottle for the first few days. She was by far the most difficult foal I've had to teach to lead. I think this was because after she had been fed, she'd struggle and be released. So she learnt that struggling brought freedom. Even foals not handled much from day one learnt to lead within minutes when subjected to very mild "pressure and release" at weaning.

I am sure this is going to be a red rag to a bull to some of here but I can only say what I've observed. My experience come from training a variety of species so my ideas are probably a bit unconventional, but don't shoot the messenger!


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## Marchell (17 June 2011)

ok, another different method (this is what forums are for - discussion  )

 We tend not to do any formal 'handling' of foals until they are weaned, the odd one may have a slip put on but usually because they are obliging. However from day one we let the foal come to us and they get plently of attention and affection without being allowed to over step the mark.

Personally I find that the least likely place they will allow you to touch them is generally the head. All ours without exception LOVE haveing their bums scratched, afterall this is generally where the mare will muzzle them to encourage feeding. Most foals appreciate pressure rather than a gentle tickle and ours frequently turns their bums to you and demand to be tickled!

We have never bred a kicker (luck, handling or breeding, who knows!) but we have had ones that are shy for a while but they soon come round.

All our movements are done with the mare and we rarely find the need to restrain the foal. My Decanter foal was microchipped this week and was just held in a corner against the mare with no fuss. Likewise we educate them to having their legs handled all by touch in the field (yes we waste hours in the field with them of an evening). All our mares/ foals are moved from farm to farm and this entails either a two mile walk along the beach (foals are loose and mare is led, foals love it and play havoc!) or they are boxed - again foals just follow their dams.
I think its down to trust in their handler - if mum is relaxed then generally so are the foals after a while.

Would the dam allow a foal to nip and bite? Most certainly not so personally I would not allow a foal to do that, colt or not, there is no excuse. You may well find that they resent you for admonishing them but  will most certainly come back to you eventually once they realise that they are missing out on a scratch .

Each foal is different however you must set ground rules and certainly it sounds as if you have a typical colt  .

I appreciate our way is not for everyone but over the years we have many testemonials for our youngstock so it works for us.


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## GinnieRedwings (17 June 2011)

I also do a LOT of handling in the first few months, because that's when they absorb the most information, and with the confort of (hopefully quiet and relaxed about things) Mum around, they learn a working life is no big deal very quickly - then I am a bit less hands on between 3 months and a year, but I find that what's well acquired early on just stays with them.

Example - we did all the loading and travelling practice with Max when he was between 1 and 3 months old. I had to take him to the vet last month (at just over a year old) to be gelded because he had a retained testicle and it was better to do it at the surgery, and he just walked on the trailer and travelled very calmy, like a pro both ways, no sweat.

We took the babies to the Norfolk show (at between 6 and 10 weeks old) - when we took the now 3 year old again later on as a yearling then a 2 years old, she didn't bat an eyelid.

I appreciate you can't do that as intensively as I do if you have loads of babies around. But if you haven't it's WELL worth the time spent!

My personal bible is Richard Maxwell's Train your Young Horse 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Richard-Maxwell-Trains-Young-Horse/dp/0715327992
Well worth the £10.

Good luck x


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## hayinamanger (17 June 2011)

If you have been present at the birth, the foal doesn't take much notice of you.  Leather foal slip on, usually before they are dry.  Rub the foal all over, including legs feet, several times during the day.

Continue daily handling of the foal all over.  They get used to this and I think it prevents them have any ticklish areas that they will not allow to be touched.  Pick feet up, best start how you mean to go on, a few times every day.  Again they just accept it as part of life.  If I'm walking through the field or poo picking (they love to help with this!) I pick their feet up.
Start leading by keeping foal close to the mare, using towel around neck and bum rope (thick soft leadrope) progressing to leading from foal slip in a couple of days, still following the mare, and keep this up at least once a day.

Foals are adorable, but they still need to learn what is acceptable, you don't want them to grow into thugs that no one will want around.  Nipping is firmly discouraged.  Foals do love to have their bums scratched, and sometimes in the first few days, the foal's bum is the only part you can get to give a scratch.  If this bum scratching is allowed to continue, you will have a very large youngster backing up to you, expecting a scratch, so it needs to be avoided.


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## lily1 (17 June 2011)

I'm glad this subject has been brought up, our little but fast growing colt was timid and the mare kept us away from him, for the first few days I put a halter on him after 5 days but had to take it off as it rubbed a patch on his face anyway he started to be inquisitive and when I feed the mare he was coming up and feeding with her gradually he let me touch him he doesnt mind his legs touched and feet picked up and definately enjoys having his bum scratched.
We tried holding round him when leading him in but he threw himself on the floor but he's getting better.
Its definately a big learning curve!


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## danni3 (17 June 2011)

Thanks everyone, some interesting replies!

I must admit I'm feeling a little out of my depth at the moment. I have been through and dealt with many different challenges over the years from neglected youngsters (over 12 months) to off the track ex racers with various issues but never have I doubted my abilities like I am at the moment! I've managed to get very close to him today, rubbing all over his neck and body but soon as my arms were around his neck he span and in a bucking/rearing fit I got kicked by him. He might only be 6 days old but a kick still hurts! On top of that my mare barged me out of the way when he started jumping around so she isn't helping things.

I'm on my own when it comes to the horses, I have no help so guess I'll just have to persevere and give it time!

One problem though is my mare is very stressy and hates being in the stable, so overnight and when it rains I bring them in but she weaves and charges round so much she knocks him flying and he can hardly get near her to feed.. Which means I've had to leave them out more than id planned, that would be ok but I can't get a rug on him so he's out in the rain


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## kerilli (17 June 2011)

don't they have a shelter, or a big hedge to hide behind? be careful if she's that stressy in the stable (just when you're in there with them, or all the time?) because she could easily hurt him. i'd keep them out as much as possible tbh, unless he gets drenched he should be fine with a bellyfull of warm milk.
do you still go and fuss her? don't ignore her to concentrate on the foal, that might be making her more stroppy, perhaps.
tbh i think you need some help with him, he should NOT be kicking you at that age or in fact at any age.
i'd sit down and let him come to you. as suggested, stroke and scratch him gently. he is NOT allowed to bite you in return...  
stand beside him if you're going to hug him, so you have much less chance of being kicked. a sharp loud "NO" if he does anything naughty should convince him it's not a good idea. tie the mare up close by if necessary, if she's likely to make things more difficult.
he must not think you are something to use for fun, as a punchbag. if he wants to treat his mum or other youngsters like that, fine, they can take it, or not... you can't and shouldn't have to!
my filly's 2 weeks now and will accept a nice hug, being pushed along and guided, etc. she's a bit sharp so i'm wary of her back end coming towards me and i move accordingly, or move her accordingly...     also beware of scratching their loins as their instinct, as said above, is to hump/buck/kick out if something touches them there... but if you do it very gently they'll accept it.
just because he's young and spindly do NOT underestimate what he can do, i saw a v experienced stud owner get laid out by a kick to the chest by a day-old foal once. she was totally winded and lucky it wasn't worse.
also, gauge his mood before starting a session... my filly's very laid back most of the time, but when she's feeling very lively i let her come to me and i don't make any demands, because that's when she's likely to turn into a ginger ninja on me! so, i'd start a session when he's a bit tired and laid back.
good luck with him!


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## Spring Feather (17 June 2011)

It does sound like your having some troubles and it seems like the mare is your biggest one!  Please don't leave your little one out in the rain.  Foals under 2 or 3 weeks old are very susceptible to becoming unwell when they get wet and within no time you could have a serious life or death situation on your hands.  The dam will have to suck it up and be locked in when it rains.  Does she have a friend who could be in an adjoining stable?  Or could you lock her in the field shelter so that she can still touch and see her friends?

I think, as time is of the essence here, that you should give it another week to 10 days and see where you are at then.  If no further forward then maybe you should advertise for help, or go along to a local stud and see if there is someone there who could give you physical help for an hour or so here and there.

Once I have hold of a foal I never let it go.  It sounds like you have a lively little lad on your hands and it would be money well spent to have a stud groom come over and get the initial handling of this unruly little guy over and done with.  Then it should be easier for you.


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## hayinamanger (17 June 2011)

^^^ Excellent advice, it's not easy on your own and you could do with some experienced help to get this little chap in a corner, foal slip on and begin his education.


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## danni3 (17 June 2011)

I give my mare lots of fuss I go out to her every couple hours for a cuddle she's just so protective. It's a battle every night even getting her in from the field at the moment, she either stands and refuses to moves or backs up so fast she almost lifts me from the floor, I never let go unless I feel unsafe and after about 20mins I manage to get her in it's just so hardwork. Shes always been a bit stressy but never like this!

I will start to bring the other horses in overnight while he's still young, I def don't want him out in the rain but at the same time i don't want him getting hurt. I have a field shelter with straw and haylage in, well it's more like another stable that I just leave open all the time with a bed made up in it, but she won't go in it she would rather stand in the rain! I don't know why she's so stressed indoors, it's a part of her past that I don't know about.

I would pay for help, I'm not the kind of person who doesn't accept help, if I can't do something myself I am happy to accept that and find someone more experienced. I will start to look around for studs in the area and see what I can do. Doesn't help we have only been here a few week so I don't know the area well!

Thanks everyone for the advice so far!  I'm sure I will get there I'm a very patient and don't give up easily!! Lol


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## Marchell (17 June 2011)

I agree with the comment about the mare being the problem - if she is a stresshead then this invariably gets passed on to the foal - they learn a lot from their dam. It could also be that she is still very foal proud but only you will be able to gauge that. Is she one for her feed? If so get some helpers in, stick her head in a bucket while using her as a 'wall'.

I'm not sure why you would want to put your arms around his neck this early on? In the wild,  a preditor would pin them down by their necks / head so invariably stressy ones tend to have that inbuilt defence mechanism and resist pressure in this are until they trust you.

The best way is to use the mare as one barrier (not possible for you maybe) and 'trap' him in a corner of the stable.  You can then gather him around the chest (not the neck) and around the bum, using the wall as a buffer. Then slip a leather head collar on.They will struggle sometimes but I suspect your mare is the biggest issue - if she stresses, he will.

In all our years of breeding we have never had any adult horses that we have bred 'back into us' and we bum scratch them all. They turn for a scratch yes, but never do they back up dangerously. All our stallions loved a scratch and never once bothered about this.

Dont be ashamed to ask for help - we all need it . The ones that can be slipped, led, loaded etc on their own are very few and far between. I have just sold one and he was like an old man from day one but his dam is laid back horizontal and could'nt give a dam.


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## danni3 (17 June 2011)

Sorry I've wrote it wrong when I said around his neck I meant around the neck area. from stroking his head I moved onto his neck which seems to set him off bucking as if he doesn't want me to do that, could stroke his head and face all day he loves it but when I move onto his body is when he seems to jump around. I couldn't get my arms actually around his neck even if I wanted to!! Lol


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## danni3 (17 June 2011)

Please excuse any grammar/spelling mistakes in my posts I'm using my phone whilst feeding baby (the human kind! Lol) 

If anyone knows of any stud yards in the northants area please let me know! I've looked online but can't seem to find any..


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