# 16hh laminitis pedal bone rotation - told horses dont recover HELP!



## Tashza (3 June 2011)

My 16hh mare around 18yrs old suddenly took laminitis 2 weeks ago. The first week she appeared to recover, however slowed down and the latest visit resulted in x-rays which I just got a call about (and once the tears subsided enough, determination has set in! I love her more than life and want to give her every chance even without the backup of insurance).

However it must be pointed out from the start that this affects ALL 4 feet ....
as for the rotation degree, I have no idea as yet, appointment to see the x-rays in just over an hour and awaiting glasgow vet schools comments. I will be asking them to contact the laminitis clinic for their input also - thinking being, they are the experts. It must be noted there is only one vet practise where I live and they have real equine specialist that is not to say my vet (of choice from the practise) is not doing her best.

The first item that came up was the imprint shoes that I have seen several people already mention and gives me hope, also the comments about vets saying PTS as this has been hinted at.

My girl is already barefoot and has been for a good few years but unfortunately we have no barefoot trimmers near so have only managed to get a trainee once and until a new farrier came into the area I didnt like the way the few that service this area could (and have) picked up and dropped people at will, however blunt he may be he's upfront what he offers and what he expects in return though I have not spoken to him about this as yet (think he is on holiday right now).

I will check out the links offered in earlier posts and ask for any referals or contact from people who cover or live in the dumfries and galloway region especially if they have dealt with or experienced pedal rotation and treated with success to allow me to tap into their knowledge or contacts who can help me. Please feel free to pm if you prefer.

The last 2 weeks treatment has been:-

deep shavings (thankfully am deep litter which meant bed was there)
I will raise the issue of imprint shoes at the appointment.
Frog supports
ACP 25mg one 3 times daily - unfortunately I'm using carrot to get this in her any better ideas very much appreciated
Bute 1.5g twice a day (danilon equidos 15%)

Using soaked haylage as she has a COPD and when at vet school a few years ago she managed to grab a mouthful before we left for the journey and windpipe was bad with muscus/froth (endiscope for tumour in head/airway) some 10 hrs later (broke down on way) and were advised in no uncertain terms to not to feed hay though have sourced a small bale of good quality hay to soak and try but not holding much hope in this case.  I found out after the consultation about the mouthful of hay.

I also would like to thank everyone for taking the time to read this and any advice they offer.


Questions
~~~~~~

Can anyone can advise when too soon is to put imprints on?

Any alternatives to hay or haylage (please note the haylage is grown on the farm where kept and goes to seed before cutting)

another thread mentions essentials and one in particular that jumps out is the Magnesium Oxide as I was speaking to a friend who when I advised about my mare had mentioned someone she knew who had sworn Magnesium something had made all the difference - I will be phoning her and hopefully get my number passed on to this person (both are miles away) but in the meantime if anyone expand on this 

I hope I make sense as my brain is still reeling right now and should be asking a lot more questions

I apologies for the length of the post, I am still in shock at my never sick or sorry made of steel girl having laminitis let alone now rotation. Unfortunate series of events (2 minor injuries and out of formula 4 feet for 2 months as well as the weather we've had that all together tipped her over the edge, other horses in same field and next are fine and barr one, were not doing as much work as she was) maybe I'm looking for a reason and there is none .....

Sincere and greatful thanks in advance


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## AndySpooner (3 June 2011)

Make sure all the sugar is out of her diet. Lucy Priory is the person to listen to on here.

One of ours had the same as yours and is ok now. Don't listen to anyone who says PTS, our vet said your on your own when we went down the Jackson/Ramey route.

There is tons on the internet re bare foot recovery, you need to get reading.


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## Tashza (3 June 2011)

Many thanks for replying, very much appreciated.

How do I contact Lucy?


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## AndySpooner (3 June 2011)

Lucy has posted on the thread Pedal bone rotation advice needed, click on her name and pm her.

Andy


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## Tashza (3 June 2011)

Got it, thank you Andy


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## Magicmadge (3 June 2011)

Not quite the same as your girl, but in 2006 my big 16.3 ID mare (over 700kg) had a terrible abcess in one fore foot. After days of vet, farrier and poultice at home,  still it had not come  out. She finally went in to the surgery where they cut away a massive portion of her hoof at the front it no longer even resembled a hoof. I was horrified! the abcess was very deep. However,   x rays showed a very large rotation in that foot. I can't remember the degree involved, but VERY clearly visable on xray.  Her sole had dropped and was like the underside of a saucer. She was crippled. Vet was not encouraging. Mare came home after a week in hospital. My farrier fitted shoes (somehow) with the plastic pads and built in frog supports (they were not expensive) and some sort of paste stuff in between (sorry can't remember what it was but it was expensive) She had very limited turnout for 2 months just a tiny patch in my garden so she couldn't get in to trot. She wore the pads for a year at every shoeing the sole looked better until finally it looks flat and normal (she does have flat feet) I have not had anymore x rays done so don't know what the pedal bone looks like now but she is sound and has been for years .  I keep her as lean as possible about 650kg. She is now however, at 19  only a light hack i would never gallop or jump her again, She had a foal in 2009. Her hoof looks good apart from a crack down the centre that will never go away. Good luck with your mare. Ohh just to add my girl can not be without shoes, she even finds standing without for farrier visits uncomfortable.


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## EQUISCENE (3 June 2011)

Unfortunately following a cortisone injection my 16hh has just got laminitis in all 4 feet was told by vet that ACP was no longer available in 25mg tablets so he has given it to me in paste form (sedalin) to adminster twice daily seems to working well.  Using Top Chop lite from Topspec with a few D&H high fibre cubes to get the danilon into him, he is also getting a couple of sections of horsehage high fibre which is suitable for laminitics as he cannot be fed hay.  Vet was amazed at the difference in just 24hrs at the moment looks like his pedal bones won't rotate but early days for me..

Good Luck with your girl..


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## Pasha (3 June 2011)

Tashza, as well as looking at her diet, ask your vet to run bloods for Cushings and EMS - there is a point in the year when the ACTH (Cushings) reading is unreliable, but i think you'll be ok at the moment (until about the end of June I think).

As she is 18 it maybe a metabolic cause - this isn't necessarily a bad thing (as at least you have an identifiable cause) and there are lots of options for treating them if she does have something!

As others have said, pedal bone rotation doesn't mean the end of the road necessarily - each horse is an individual! I wish you the very best of luck with her xxx


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## Pasha (3 June 2011)

Also, what feed is she having?

I now feed my boys totaly organic (Thunderbrook Equine Feed) - one has Cushings and one has EMS, but there are loads of good un-molassed chaff's out there that are suitable! Hi Fi Molasses Free is one of the best I think and you can add non-molassed sugar beet to it to make it tasty!

If i had my time again the first thing i would have given my old boy when he had his Lami attack would be a good liver tonic like GH Restore to help his body get rid of all the toxins that build up


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## Lotty (3 June 2011)

My 16.1hh warmblood x was diagnosed with laminitis last March. I caught it early and called the vet and farrier out straight away. That day she had x-rays and frog supprts on, 3 days later my farrier fitted her with Imprint Shoes. 

My mare was on box rest for 5months only coming out her stable for x-rays every 3weeks, she was also given sedalin and bute orally twice a day. I also ran the Laminitic Trust, they told me to feed happy hoof and magnesium and to weigh and soak her hay.Those months were like a roller coaster, some weeks she really picked up then she would go right down hill.

There are 4 vets at my practise, one of them really seemed to know his stuff, the other one who came out a few times actually told me to start thinking about putting her down. However, my farrier was great and was always at the end of the phone.

I am now riding her and she is back to full fitness but her management has completely changed. I really wish you and your girl the best.


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## RobinHood (3 June 2011)

Has your mare been tested for cushings?


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## flaxen (3 June 2011)

ACP tablets are not licensed for use in horses when there is a licensed product on the market, however a lot of equine veterinary hospitals will probably still use them for ease as we did when inpatients needed them, we just mixed them in feed, they came in very handy when we were fostering orphaned foals on to foster mares. 
I use them on my mare as she is a nightmare to syringe into her mouth, you have to twitch her and then watch out for striking forelegs! 
My tip to get the acp in her is to put them in the middle of a sugar free polo- perfect fit and horse none the wiser.

I wish you all the best with your mare.


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## Tashza (3 June 2011)

Thank you so much for the replies.

I have been heartened to learn of bigger horses standing a chance!

Lily is strong and willful, if she was not I would not put her through anything but she is not a quitter.

I had been leaning towards blood tests, especially thinking along the lines of cushings (a horse a another yard near by just got diagnoised mid-end of last summer i think it was and will speak to her owner again).  If i had not got stopped/talking before I got in the house after coming home and seen the post about blood I'd have shot back down and asked my vet to take blood as she was there looking at another horse who had gone lame (not linked/laminitis) sods law.

Lily threw her summer coat as normal so had not considered cushings straight away but never discount anything in this type of situation I have learned.  

I'll certainly see about GH Restore, hindsight is a wonderful thing and the comment about if you could start again is exactly the sort of feedback that is crucial thank you 

The tip about the sugar free polo mint is something I will try tonight as not happy giving a carrot 3 times a day if I can avoid it.

I can confirm it is 25mg tablets.  We had considered syringing but she is quite an obstinate girl when she wants to be and dont want to stress her too much so the polo idea is a great idea (friend just popped in and sent with my request for sugar free mints!).

Lily is normally fed Alpha A with a bit of beet juice and a wee bit of beet.  She was getting bran to bulk it out and keep her busy but have stopped that.
Haylage when stabled as she has COPD (cant remember the new name)
Generally on formula 4 feet but ran out 2 months ago along with breathe free and garlic.

I have bought Hifi Lite which she ate some of but not sure she is convinced as she never ate all of the wee drop I tried her with but will try again tonight when she gets some to eat her Danilon.  I know someone on the yard who normally feeds happy hoof but couldnt get any when she went out which is a bummer as could have borrowed some to see if she preferred that.  This is dampened with water and will add breathe free to it (new tub bought this afternoon) but out of garlic and gets part of her F4F ration in it and what ever is left fed as treats.

Re horsehage which colour is suitable for laminitics? Is it the purple?

Re magnesium, heard this mentioned once before somewhere.  Can you advise exactly what type etc.

Sorry for being disjointed but brain sucking in information and spewing it out in a different, sometimes disjointed order 

I really do appreciate all the feedback, please keep it coming 

Oh and have a Shiatsu massage booked for next Friday afternoon (soonest I could get it) which will help her muscles and whether you believe in the meridian lines or not it worth a shot


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## LucyPriory (3 June 2011)

I've pm'd you


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## Tashza (3 June 2011)

Thank you Lucy


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## EQUISCENE (3 June 2011)

Horsehage High Fibre - Blue
http://www.horsehage.co.uk/HH-HighFibre.html


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## moodles (3 June 2011)

I would be careful feeding Happy hoof to a horse with acute laminitis even though it is approved by the Laminitis Trust. When my horse got laminitis following a steroid injection, he was on total box rest with poor quality hay soaked for 12hrs. I gave him half a scoop of Happy hoof twice a day just so he would eat the bute and ACP. After several weeks no improvement in the laminitis so vet ran blood tests for Cushings/EMS and all negative. He also recommended switching to HiFi Lite and after doing this he improved and thankfully is still with me as a light hack. My vet said he had reservations about Happy hoof being suitable for horses with acute laminitis although fine for horses that are overweight and prone to laminitis. Fingers crossed my boy has been laminitis free for 3 years now. Grass intake carefully managed with bare paddock or muzzle. Now feeding HIfi molasses free as he prefers that to HiFi Lite. Good luck with your mare, mine didn't have any rotation but was in a bad way for best part of year but he did come through it.


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## brighteyes (3 June 2011)

Yahoo groups 'themetabolichorse'  - get on there.  Tons and tons of current info.  Last thing I read was frog supports are contra-indicated!  That was in the latest BHS magazine.

We threw our undiagnosed pony on pergolide as soon as Cushing's was suspected.  Can't do that now as pergolide is no longer prescribable for horses, and has recently been replaced by a vastly more expensive drug licensed for this particular problem.

I can't say now whether I'd have to PTS on the purely financial implications of medicating a horse with Prascend.  You are only buying time and not all of it quality.  

Don't give up til your horse does, if you can afford it.  Good luck x


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## Tashza (3 June 2011)

I bought hifi lite today and she had a little but did not finish the small amount I gave her to try, I did however manage to get a little happy hoof which I am now doubting.

The person who gave me a few handfuls, uses it for their horse who had bad laminitis with rotation (not sure if both feet affected but one was bad) about 6 years ago but will try the hifi lite again tonight with a little formula 4 feet and danilon and see how she goes. 

It was good to speak to someone tonight in person who fought for their horse who was box rested for 5 months and showing me feet, explaining and discussing her case etc.

The leaf of hay I got last night will have soaked 24hrs when I go down (emptied the water out this morning and refilled) so will try her with a bit of this to see how she fairs with her COPD :/

I will join the themetabolichorse yahoo list and read as much as I can  but must head off down to my girl right now.


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## Spins (3 June 2011)

Don't really have any advice about the pedal bone rotation but as for the hay/haylage it might be worth thinking of investing in a hay steamer? They're expensive but you can get cheaper bag versions now.. Even feeding haulage isn't really ideal because it can still contain spores as im sure you know! so this could be a good option especially for the winter months in the many years to come! I know with these ones http://www.haygain.co.uk/ you can out them on a timer and they're done in an hour  

Hope that helps and everything works out well for you both!


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## LucyPriory (4 June 2011)

hay steamers are ok for the dust/mould element, but they don't remove sugar which is important for laminitics.


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## Spins (4 June 2011)

LucyPriory said:



			hay steamers are ok for the dust/mould element, but they don't remove sugar which is important for laminitics.
		
Click to expand...

Yep I know that just thought it might help with the copd? As Opposed to having to feed regular hay that's been soaked for hours? Just thought it'd be worth a shot!


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## LucyPriory (4 June 2011)

yes - I agree re COPD - but with a lami the hay unless tested at 8% or lower should really be soaked (and rinsed afterwards) anyway.  I find it makes a huge difference.  The difference can be between sound and lame or dead or alive depending on how bad the lami is and how sensitive the horse is and how sugary  the hay.


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## Tashza (4 June 2011)

*UPDATE:*

Call from vet advising chased vet school who advise the following:-

Up to them
Cut both hind digital flexor (?) tendons
Cast legs
Cast feet with shoes
14 days stay

This means loading her with painkillers etc to get her there unless we can get another vet that is closer to home by some 30 miles who was previous consultant there to do work.

In touch with a specialist laminitis farrier who I hope to speak to on the phone very soon to see what he advises.

Phoning laminitis clinic to discuss feeding and get email so vet can send x-rays.


Does anyone have any experience/been through cutting of tendons????


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## Tashza (4 June 2011)

Unfortunately the specialist laminitis farrier is miles and miles away ....  but willing to help and advise.  With some 400 successful cases under his belt I am hopeful he may have a less drastic alternative.


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## EQUISCENE (4 June 2011)

OMG not having had experience of a chronic laminitic I am shocked at the vet school advice but personally would think carefully before putting an 18yr old horse through surgery. This must be really awful for you hope everything works out..


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## LucyPriory (4 June 2011)

as advised previously - read the information on ECIR and if necessary ask Dr Kellon directly.  I think you will find that cutting the tendons is based on theories no longer held to be that accurate.


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## Kellys Heroes (4 June 2011)

Not read all the posts but our girl has had pedal bone rotation from Cushings-induced laminitis and we've been told that with careful trimming and heart bar shoes her bones are coming back to the right position - its been a long, long road but we were told by a few different people that the myth horses can't recover isn't true.
Our farrier has worked hard on her and she has come perfectly sound for the first time in months and months and we are SO pleased. 
Frog supports are a very good idea...not so sure about barefoot I'm afraid but it can be recovered 
K x


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## LucyPriory (4 June 2011)

the horse I mentioned previously had the frog supports etc etc etc and was due to be PTS as advised by vet and farrier.  He came sound enough to canter voluntarily in 2 weeks once the shoes came off.


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## Tashza (4 June 2011)

Thank you so much for the support and added info.

This cutting of tendons has certainly thrown me through a loop and have been beside myself all day.

I had to gather myself before getting out the car to attend to Lily tonight.  But she cheered me with her cheekiness and trying to get head in the feedbin (dont worry no success on her part).

Not sure she is convinced on the Hifi Lite and I know mentioned about Happy Hoof but I got a small handful and put both Danilons in it and she ate it no bother.  I was so relieved!  While I turned out the other 2 horses after their meals and rugs put on for the night I came back and found her in her stable (rem its a converted byre and the stable run one into other separated by part frame partition and a bar between to separate which is down at the moment) scrapping about in her rack.  I went to refresh the bucket of water near the door (i do it at least 3 or 4 times a day to keep busy and stay there etc) and came back in to find her back in the first stable scratching around in the rack there.

That said I am aware 2 danilon morning and night will help a lot and she will have good days and bad but she still has determination and will to go on so taking strength from her when it should be the other way around.

Will be talking to 2 laminitis farriers tomorrow, one which emailed he'd never had to have any tendons cut so bolstered a bit by that for now but by 2am I'll be awake thinking I'm being to optimistic and doubting everything.

Another vet and farrier to talk to on Monday so I hope I will have good news and a better alternative by then and with luck all my pain and distress and chasing every man and his uncle will not only bear fruit but help anyone else in the future.  Positive, optimistic frame of mind at the moment .....

Lucy I will add Dr Kellor to my list of people to speak too  I've been trying to read through the site but have had to take a break from reading all the sites I have been as my brain is swimming but will start at it again tomorrow (early if I cant get myself back to sleep again).

Thank you everyone once again for your continued help and support it really means so very much


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## cm2581 (4 June 2011)

Is the specialist farrier Jim Ferrie?? If not, speak to him and the laminitis clinic. I would take the advice of robert eustace (Laminitis Clinic) and Jim *far* above that of the Glasgow Vet School. I'm not saying what they suggest is wrong, but I would always consult these two. 

The most important thing to do is determine why she got laminits. That in itself may determine whether or not any course of action is appropriate. I hope she is ok.


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## Tashza (4 June 2011)

Forgot to add, Lily is a very energic, youthful 18yr old and people are always surprised at her age as she behaves like an 8 yr old 

You are right though her age, character, attitude, strength and will all need to be carefully considered for her best interests not mine 

As things develop we will review what this means for her, not only the operation but the follow up box rest, therapy etc etc


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## Tashza (4 June 2011)

Thank you cm2581 for the vote of confidence in Jim Ferrier and the laminitis clinic.  

Jim is back from hols Mon and he is on my hit list followed by the clinic. Vet was going to call clinic for email address (on Monday) for x-rays but I told her I'd get it for her, so I'll get her to email them to Jim also when I've spoken to him  you have heartened me once again.

H&H members TOTALLY ROCK!!!


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## cm2581 (4 June 2011)

I'm sorry I haven't read all other posts but if it were one of mine, I'd be sending bloods to laminitis clinic and giving consideration to the stability of the gut. Hi fi lite, 24hr soaked hay and pink power and nothing else (apart from drugs). Any changing of feed, even from one laminits safe feed to another can be enough to seriously upset them. Fitting hoof boots with pads could also increase her comfort in the immediate short term. Poor horsey and poor you.

BTW Ferrie, not Ferrier!! That'd just piss him off!!


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## Tashza (5 June 2011)

cm2581

Thanks for the correction, nothing worse than getting off on the wrong foot!

Am going to request blood work tomorrow morning.

On the feed front she was on Alpha A, bought hifi lite but not convinced she is convinced she's that fussed on it.  Had a few handfuls of Happy Hoof and used a small one to get the Danilon in as she was picking about the Hifi even with formula 4 feet in it (which she is use to and eats happily), not sure if putting her back on breathe free was a contributing factor.  I'll find out this morning by giving her a small handful of the hifi with F4F, Danilon and no breathe free to see what she thinks.

She presently has frog supports (jeez the seem to move readily btw or maybe me being careful not to be tight over the coronary means I'm not being tight enough to hold them in place 100%) but have seen mentioned hoof boots and pads before (not sure if on this thread or another on H&H).  

With so many boots on the market is there a set that know have worked and what sort of pads are we talking?


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## AndySpooner (5 June 2011)

Tashza just read about the tendon op that has been suggested to you.

My personal opinion is that it is not necessary, if there was no other choice for a horse of mine I think I would PTS.


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## Tashza (5 June 2011)

Andy

I want to see the tendon op as a last resort as it is so drastic 

I cant sleep at night for thinking about what is right for her and doubt myself until I go down to see her each and every time, she is so bright. She is fighting and willing and knows her limitations better than anyone - in that I trust her.

She has been more active the last 24 hrs but she is on basically 6g danilon a day (upped on Thursday night to ensure comfort) for a start and how many times have we seen an animal (any animal, dog, cat, even people) rally before they slump so I do watch her like a hawk and spend as much time with her as possible so she knows I am there for her and she is not abandoned to get on with it.  I also make sure she has quiet, restful time to herself.  She is lying down each night (which is normal when stabled), usually when out 24/7 she's lying down around 9am gets up for breakfast than has a lie down snooze at 11am!

If we have no choice but the operation route it will be discussed very carefully analysing all the pros and cons and what it means for her before making any decision.

I have 2 calls to make today and 4 tomorrow which I hope has them all saying no need for op and concurring on same/similar strategy.

Keep sending healing wishes to my girl because I'll take any little bit of help no matter how strange


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## tallyho! (5 June 2011)

Just read your thred tashza. Firstly, huge hugs to you and your girl.

Hopefully it will not come to tendon surgery.


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## Dogstar (5 June 2011)

My girl is a good 15.3hh, she had fat laminitis with slight rotation in May 2008.  The vets were not doom and gloom at all, even though she took a while to recover, they just said to box rest her on deep bedding and feed soaked hay. She was box rested for about 5 months and then another month or so in a mini paddock then I started riding her gently. She was built back up to normal work and has been regularly hacked since, including trotting on the roads, has done pleasure rides and has hunted. She has flat feet too. So I don't understand why they are suggesting drastic things at this early stage? I would say it is far too soon to panic..


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## soloequestrian (5 June 2011)

Have you read 'Founder, Prevention and Cure' by Jaime Jackson?  It's a great book, the case studies are amazing, and the overriding message is that with laminitis you have TIME.  Don't rush into something as horrific as cutting tendons, at the very least until you've read the book!!  If you can control the pain, discover what is causing the laminitis, and resolve that, the foot will then heal itself - you can't force the pedal bone back into place, you can only allow the growth of a healthy new hoof.  My girl (who is 20 this year) had surgery last year for a foot problem, and developed laminitis as a result of the stress/anaesthetic.  She was in horsepital when it happened, so was treated very quickly and x-rays showed no rotation, but she grew in her hooves at a different angle and had a massive event line from the time of the laminitis.  She is fine now, back in work and looking great.  I did have a difference of opinion with the vet about treating the lami, so she started off in heart bars which I had removed after the first six weeks and from then on was barefoot.  If it happened again (God forbid), I would not even have heart bars on her - all they seemed to do was squish the foot, and you can get plenty of support from bedding/frog supports/boots with pads, all of which have less impact on an already sore foot.


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## Tashza (6 June 2011)

Thank you so much folks for your continued support and advice.

Lily has been more active the last few days, but as said before on 6g danilon per day.  She did escape yesterday which frightened me half to death and gave her quite a chastising which went completely over her head ala giving a teenager a lecture, if she could roll her eyes she would have!!!!

I spoke at great length to a laminitis specialist farrier, who was shocked at the only option offered being cutting tendons.  This gentleman explained everything to me over the phone, asked loads of questions, made sure I understood what he was saying, gave accounts of other cases and how he approaches and deals with laminitis as well as most if not all cases returning to full work.

I am at present doing my due dilligence in checking him out (which he also said I should do) and am waiting to hear back from 2 places.  I checked the farriery registered to ensure he is qualified.

He has asked for photos of her standing, side view of feet, description of sole (so ascertain if penetration happening/going to happen) as video of her to see what she is doing (he quite some distance away).  

Just off to get more Danilon from vet and arrange x-rays to be emailed to him.

Once all my diligence done etc etc and horse treated I will give full write up of who etc etc


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## Tashza (8 June 2011)

This is all falling apart 

Specialist willing to come but as I cant find a farrier locally so far he will need to bring his own van/tools which means in all 3 days, one travelling here, one to do the work and another to travel back.

Costs spiralling out of control and this is only for the first fit.

I think a few people mentioned some names on the barefoot side or information that would be helpful from that side.

I will read through again but jump in as if we can not resolve this very soon we have no choice whatsoever but to have Lily PTS.

This is tearing me apart limb from limb :'(


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## soloequestrian (8 June 2011)

Post on the UKNHPC site - full of friendly and knowledgable people, many of whom have dealt with laminitis.  Do you have any idea of cause yet?  I suspect that is the key - if you can remove the cause, the horse can recover.


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## Dogstar (8 June 2011)

Most decent farriers can cope with laminitis- my own farrier dealt with my girl, he liaised with my vet, looked at the x-rays and did all the necessary. Laminitis recovery is largely a waiting game though..so don't give up yet!


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## Pasha (8 June 2011)

Tashza where are you based? Maybe someone on here can recommend their farrier?


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## lornaA (8 June 2011)

Hi its Lorna here,  are you still not having any luck with a farrier?  I was talking to Laura about it today and i am afraid i do not know what to suggest.  You appear to be already doing everything I would suggest.  Dont give up hope yet please.  To give you hope wee Dusky was out in her field today for a short time for the first time in a few months and she seems to be well on the road to recovery.  I have never heard or cutting the tendons for laminitis and it does sound severe is this to free up the back of the pedal bone or something? Did you get her tested for cushings?  Megan had several cushings symptoms which to be honest it doesnt sound like lilly has but you never know.  Megan was drinking about 3 of the big white water buckets a night and more thru the day, she was very depressed and very hairy and having sweats was very thin and lost all her topline.  She was tested in march and started treatment (pergolide) the day we got the results.  Within 2 days she was improving.  You only have to look at her to see she is a different horse to what she was in March.
I hope you find a solution to your problems with Lilly x


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## Tashza (8 June 2011)

Soloeq
I will certainly look at the UKNHPC site, but am so shattered mentally I'll have to do it when I get up in the morning.

Dogstar
Thank for the support I appreciate yours and everyone's very much.


On a brighter note, a friend took action and caught her farrier who agreed for me to phone him.  We talked and he is willing to have a look.  I am under no illusion that rotation in 4 feet is a completely different ball game to usual one or two...... He has asked for photos of feet and x-rays so he can compare the 2.  The plan at the moment is he'll visit and discuss with vet after his rounds tomorrow (Thurs) and see Lily after his rounds on Fri.

Pasha 
I'm south west scotland which is a bit out of the way for anything in life in general let alone involving horses :/

Lorna
Thats great to hear about Dusky and she is an inspiration as is your Megan.  As you say on the surface it doesnt appear to be cushings, not drinking excessively, blew her coat as normal, not noticed any unusual sweats etc.

All we can put it down to is the grass being different from previous years due to the weather and the 2 injuries one after the other, the first being minor but the hind tendons with her kicking the gate or through it and the trauma/bruising and possibly stress of it is what pushed her over the edge.  She hasnt had any injections, not eaten anything unusual that we are aware of that would result in the laminitis especially causing rotation of all 4  it is a mystery which is worrying in itself.

It is so hard to know and decide what is the right thing to do when you keep getting setbacks, but Dusky and Megan also show how resilent and strong they can be too.  Megan not only lost her stable mate but her baby and you have been amazingly strong for her through it all.

You are welcome to come visit, get Laura to bring you across if you prefer


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## brucea (9 June 2011)

You may well find that keeping shoes off is a better approach to managing laminitis. Ask on the UKNHCP forum - there are quite a few folks there with real life experience of managing laminitics

I've sent you a PM with some suggestions and info

One thing you may wish to consider is getting insulin and glucose tested and then working out your RISQ or MIRG on ecirhorse. If it is insulin resistant then metformin is the drug. I have my pony on it at the moment and it's made a real difference to him.


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## Tashza (9 June 2011)

Many thanks once again for you input Brucea, I got your pm and have replied


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## Pasha (9 June 2011)

I'm in SE England so my farrier wouldn't be any good to you, but maybe if you put a post up in here and other forums specifically asking for farrier recommendations in your area, someone maybe able to help?

You never know, there maybe someone not far from you who is 'shipping' in a specialist that you could share costs with?

I wish you the very best of luck x


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## ILuvCowparsely (28 January 2012)

so whats happened to lilly there has been no progress report here .

 I have had a similar journey Tashza  i love my my more than life itself  we have had many many set backs, people keep saying give it 6 months then throw in the towel but how can you when your mare is fighting doesnt want to give up


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## lachlanandmarcus (30 January 2012)

Tashza said:



			I bought hifi lite today and she had a little but did not finish the small amount I gave her to try, I did however manage to get a little happy hoof which I am now doubting.

The person who gave me a few handfuls, uses it for their horse who had bad laminitis with rotation (not sure if both feet affected but one was bad) about 6 years ago but will try the hifi lite again tonight with a little formula 4 feet and danilon and see how she goes. 

It was good to speak to someone tonight in person who fought for their horse who was box rested for 5 months and showing me feet, explaining and discussing her case etc.

The leaf of hay I got last night will have soaked 24hrs when I go down (emptied the water out this morning and refilled) so will try her with a bit of this to see how she fairs with her COPD :/

I will join the themetabolichorse yahoo list and read as much as I can  but must head off down to my girl right now.
		
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Bear in mind that horses do take time to come round to more miserably gruel like feeds unless they are greedy chops to start with. Try mixing the hifilite with the happy hoof and then gradually reduce out the happy hoof until just hifilite remains.


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## Nitro mouse (30 January 2012)

Have you been in touch with the laminitis clinic, they may be able to help you with a suitable farrier, plus they are brilliant at giving advice. My farrier is not classed as a specialist as such he is just damn good! He asked to see my horse's X-rays and shod him with specialist shoes accordingly. He is the one who got J sound after he had pedal bone rotation. J was officially retired for three years as we went from v lame to paddock sound on painkillers, but lame on hard ground...gradually improving over time to being totally sound all round on painkillers, reducing painkillers to occasional use ie when ground hard in summer and winter. My boy is now 20 and has been totally sound on no painkillers at all for two years. He is now back in work and was feeling so good decided to take me for an unplanned gallop down the bridal path. 
Fingers crossed for you, another vote for ACP in sugar free polos. I fed hi fi lite in the beginning and still soak hay, he now on happy hoof.


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## horsenanny (2 May 2012)

i look after a wonderful 17.3 warm blood,he is back in again.In 2010 his owner insisted on feeding him vast quantities of food(if you feed them competition feed they become competition horses),unlimited hay,& turned out all day,and rode him in menage for 30 mins twice a wk,and not suprisingly he developed laminitis,as soon as he came sound she was feeding again.In Jan 2011 he went down in his box,vet called,x-rays done,rotated pedal bones,both front.he was on complete box rest until Feb this year when she decided to send him away to be ridden(Farriers advice) 2 wks later he`s home and lame.I have spoken to Vet & farrier,they tell me a very different story from what the owner tells me.He went out again 2 wks ago,but yesterday,through boredom,anxiety had a mental moment,flipped out,ripped bar shoe off and is now in & lame.PLEASE HELP how do i get through to this person she is killing her horse,i`ve tried so hard to reduce his feed,i throw half away before he gets it(she works7.30am-7.30pm)I try & keep his bed clean & dry.But at wk end his bed is a swamp,and god alone knows what she feeds him.
The Farrier has told her he will come 100% right,he is now 9 yrs old,has done a dozen pre lim dressage tests,what hope is there for him,i`ve looked after him since he was 4 yrs old.She has lost 2 horses in last 15 years exactly the same way.He is in on 4 inch deep shavings,over rubbermatting.Do i need to take the wet out,do i deep litter,Sorry this is such a rambling,all over the place message,but i can see this horse in a hole in the ground very soon.


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## flitz02 (2 May 2012)

Im so sorry to hear of your problems & cannot begin to imagine how fried your brain is right now.The only thing i can add along with alot of others is do get a cushings test done.I had an 11 year old mare who went down with laminitis during the winter she was not overweight showed no symtoms of cushings but sure enough she tested positive!  Mine sadly was not a happy outcome after her pedal bone almost popped through her sole.However i think my point is to rule out cushings because sometimes even with all the best treatment in the world you are fighting a losing battle.I do take my hat off to you as you are definately getting the best help you can & i soo hope yours is a happy outcome.Wishing you all the best.xx


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## horsenanny (3 May 2012)

he has been tested for cushings and is clear,his whole situation has been brought on by his owner,i`m just his nanny. I`m just at my wits end,everytime i go back after wk end she has some new regime which lasts a wk.She is still giving him a large scoop of happyhoof,an apple,&handful of nuts twice a day,plus 3 large haynets(i have got my own way with the 12 hr soaking)Farrier coming tomorrow to fit a glue on aliminium shoe.Do i need to make his bed deeper,it`s about 4 inches of shavings on rubber matting.Should i keep it clean and dry or deep litter?


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## sanchob (3 May 2012)

Tashza said:



*UPDATE:*

Call from vet advising chased vet school who advise the following:-

Up to them
Cut both hind digital flexor (?) tendons
Cast legs
Cast feet with shoes
14 days stay

This means loading her with painkillers etc to get her there unless we can get another vet that is closer to home by some 30 miles who was previous consultant there to do work.

In touch with a specialist laminitis farrier who I hope to speak to on the phone very soon to see what he advises.

Phoning laminitis clinic to discuss feeding and get email so vet can send x-rays.


Does anyone have any experience/been through cutting of tendons????
		
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saw this done to a poor pony on our yard. i have to say i think it was barbaric..didn't help either the poor thing was in agony afterwards.


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