# Horse won't stand to be mounted from mounting block



## kyanya (17 November 2010)

I've been sharing my new share horse for 2 weeks now and it's mainly going well, he's a nice lad and the arrangment suits everyone well so far.

However, I've enountered a bit of a problem with him - he won't stand to be mounted. When I first tried him, I was given a leg up and he was fine, but when I ride him normally there's no one around to give me a leg-up, because I go after work and the yard's quiet. 

I'm one of the least flexible people you'll meet - no medical reasons, I just am! So it would be unfair on both of us for me to haul myself on from the ground, because even though he's only 15.1 and I'm 5'5, I just have hardly any bounce and I'm fairly sure I'd make his saddle slip, as he's a big round cob with no withers.

So first couple of times I rode on my own, I tried getting on in the manege using a chair that's in there. First time I walked him to the chair and made him stand, climbed up on chair and he moved away from the chair before I could jump on. I re-tried but with no more success until I wedged him in with the wall on one side of the arena to one side of him, chair to the other side of him and wall in front of him, so only way he could have gone was backwards, and thankfully he didn't.

The second time I went for the same approach straight away, cos I thought I'd found the solution, but he walked backwards! I re-tried in the same place and different places in the arena, but he wouldn't stand. He stands fine until I get up on chair next to him, then he walks off. If I hold my reins tight, he walks backwards; if I hold my reins loose he goes sideways or just rotates hindquarters away from me. In the end I took him out of the school to the mounting block (where I'd got on from at the weekend with relatively no trouble; he stood long enough for me to jump on, and on the first attempt!) and got on at the first attempt.

So last night was round 3 - I decided not to faff in the school and took him straight to the mounting block, and he starts swinging quarters away. I perserved, and eventually managed to hop on by wedging him between the mounting block and the stables, so he could only go forward and backwards, and on the second or third attempt using this approach he stood for long enough for me to jump on. This attempt coincided with a truck driving up the lane - felt a bit like something else had taken his attention, so he forgot about pratting about and just stood instead!

Any advice? I'm more than willing to persevere with him, just don't really know how to go about it. Each time I manage to get on at the moment it feels like luck rather than because he's happy to stand - I think if I got off straight after I got on and tried to re-mount, we'd have to go through the same process again before I get lucky. I don't necessarily want a horse that'll stand all day at the block without moving, 15seconds would do!

It might also be useful to know that horse does what he can to not stand close to the mounting block/chair. He'll walk up to it, then sidestep the last few steps so he's near it, but not quite near enough.


----------



## applecart14 (17 November 2010)

kyanya said:



			I've been sharing my new share horse for 2 weeks now and it's mainly going well, he's a nice lad and the arrangment suits everyone well so far.

However, I've enountered a bit of a problem with him - he won't stand to be mounted. When I first tried him, I was given a leg up and he was fine, but when I ride him normally there's no one around to give me a leg-up, because I go after work and the yard's quiet. 

I'm one of the least flexible people you'll meet - no medical reasons, I just am! So it would be unfair on both of us for me to haul myself on from the ground, because even though he's only 15.1 and I'm 5'5, I just have hardly any bounce and I'm fairly sure I'd make his saddle slip, as he's a big round cob with no withers.

So first couple of times I rode on my own, I tried getting on in the manege using a chair that's in there. First time I walked him to the chair and made him stand, climbed up on chair and he moved away from the chair before I could jump on. I re-tried but with no more success until I wedged him in with the wall on one side of the arena to one side of him, chair to the other side of him and wall in front of him, so only way he could have gone was backwards, and thankfully he didn't.

The second time I went for the same approach straight away, cos I thought I'd found the solution, but he walked backwards! I re-tried in the same place and different places in the arena, but he wouldn't stand. He stands fine until I get up on chair next to him, then he walks off. If I hold my reins tight, he walks backwards; if I hold my reins loose he goes sideways or just rotates hindquarters away from me. In the end I took him out of the school to the mounting block (where I'd got on from at the weekend with relatively no trouble; he stood long enough for me to jump on, and on the first attempt!) and got on at the first attempt.

So last night was round 3 - I decided not to faff in the school and took him straight to the mounting block, and he starts swinging quarters away. I perserved, and eventually managed to hop on by wedging him between the mounting block and the stables, so he could only go forward and backwards, and on the second or third attempt using this approach he stood for long enough for me to jump on. This attempt coincided with a truck driving up the lane - felt a bit like something else had taken his attention, so he forgot about pratting about and just stood instead!

Any advice? I'm more than willing to persevere with him, just don't really know how to go about it. Each time I manage to get on at the moment it feels like luck rather than because he's happy to stand - I think if I got off straight after I got on and tried to re-mount, we'd have to go through the same process again before I get lucky. I don't necessarily want a horse that'll stand all day at the block without moving, 15seconds would do!

It might also be useful to know that horse does what he can to not stand close to the mounting block/chair. He'll walk up to it, then sidestep the last few steps so he's near it, but not quite near enough.
		
Click to expand...

Is he food responsive?  The reason I ask is that my horse is EXACTLY the same and won't stand for a minute to mount from a mounting block unless you wedge him between the fence and the mounting block and then he will stand.  if you can't do that then try him with a polo.  Give him a treat if he stands for you and when he realises he gets a treat he will willingly stand whilst you mount.  Took my quick learning horse about ten minutes to get the message (very much rules by his belly like his Mum)!! LOL


----------



## Lisamd (17 November 2010)

When i bough Borris he had only ever been vaulted on from the ground and then was aloud to shoot off once the rider was on. When i got him home from Ireland it would take me between 10-15 mins to get on him from a small moveable mounting block as he wouldn't stand at our large fixed one. Once i was on he would shoot off with his back up too. It took me about 8 weeks to be able to get on him from the fixed mounting block, some days i would get on and off him 5 or 6 times, which bored the pants off him, so he eventually stood still. Now 6 months on he stands still to be got on, but if he is going to do something wrong this is his weak point. I say perserver and be firm and reward once your on and he has stood still. It will pay off and you'd be better in the longrun than using treats etc.


----------



## Janette (17 November 2010)

Star was excactly the same, and did the most beautiful turns on the forehand to stop me getting on.

Polo Mints!  Be patient, take your time, and as soon as you are on, give the mint.  I used to hold it in my teeth, and would have to keep spares because they would dissolve.  but she caught on and now stands beautifully at the mounting block.  I'm extending the time between giving the mint to encourage her to stand and wait before being asked to move off.

This method was suggested to me by a  very clever and experienced trainer.


----------



## Fellewell (17 November 2010)

You need to be careful especially as there is nobody else there. He has learned this behaviour and wedging him in could end up with you being squashed. 
Every time he moves away from the block walk him round in a large circle and lead him up until he's positioned properly by the block for you to mount (this is easier than trying to wrestle him back/over to the block). Walk this circle every time he fidgets and give the command 'stand' firmly next to the block. This is time consuming but he will get bored and give in. He does know what he should be doing.


----------



## Tickles (17 November 2010)

Potential Reasons:
- real pain from mounting: check saddle fit, back and lightness of mounting (rider well-suited size-wise and careful about putting feet into offside stirrup before sitting gently and so forth)
- remembered pain/evasion: ask owner, if they acre about the horse they should be happy to talk to you about any little hiccups.

Assuming it is one of the latter:
- if horse is good with whips (as in not at all scared) you can use them as a hand-extension to shove quarters back where they should be and give you enough time
- rewards are also great: get on (inelegantly if necessary!) and just stand there. Then get horse to stretch round to either toe (yours!) for a treat/fuss. If he walks off circle straight back to where you mounted and try again. It won't take him long to understand that he gets the treat/fuss quicker if he stays still!

Depending on the horse heaps of repetitions might not be a great idea at the beginning of every session but it can be worth getting on, riding, getting off and remounting halfway through and right at the end of a session so that you do both practice but being mounted doesn't always mean the start of a long workout.

This will also give you an idea if horse is uncomfortable due to stiffness, look out for mounting after a warm-up being consistently easier.


----------



## kittykatcat (17 November 2010)

I had this with my young TB, who had never raced but had been 'broken' in Ireland so god knows what that meant! Anyway, he would trot off, rear, spin, really nice! I had to resort to getting on in the stable and leaning down and letting us out - less that ideal, but i was the same as you - no one on the yard.

First thing I would do is have everything checked out as this is evasive behaviour, and he will be being evasive for a reason. I would also ensure that when you ride him it's varied and interesting.

I spent about 2 hours with some friends, getting on, and off, on and off, lots of rewards and treats and fuss. He's absolutely fine now and will stand there all day! I think he just didnt understand.


----------



## Brandy (17 November 2010)

I had the same problem with one of mine. I solved the problem with a pocketful pony nuts. He now associates a vocal 'stand....' with a pony nut if he stands still. Quick and easy.


----------



## flyingfeet (17 November 2010)

Per Kittykatcat - set a session up for mounting practise and get some help

Then you practise getting on and off repeatedly until they are foot perfect. Hopefully its something that you may have to do once, but the backup behaviour is if they swing / walk off etc they you get off and do it again. That way it ingrains that correct behaviour is to stand until you are ready


----------



## polopony (17 November 2010)

My horse is the same, only when he does it he spins around and would be much happier to let me get on the other side, but I perciviere and make sure I get on the right side. On my yard there is like a table thing we use as a mountain block, which he doesn't seem to like, if I get on from a breeze block a couple of foot closer he's fine - strange, strange pony


----------



## kyanya (17 November 2010)

He is very food-orientated - when I hacked him out, which was only the second time I'd ridden him, the girl I rode wiith offered me a couple of polos when we got back to the yard to give to him. I took them without thinking and gave them to him, but afterwards treats were obviously all he could think of and he kept mugging me. I really want to avoid encouraging that behaviour from him - he's a chunky boy, I don't want him trying to get in my pockets and I definitely don't want a nippy horse. Although I'd only be treating as a reward whn I'm on board, so he wouldn't be able to perform any of those behaviours then I suppose. Would you still suggest treats are the way to train him, or would another way be better?

Pain/discomfort is the first thing I thought of actually, but I feel awkward raising that as a potential problem with the owner so soon after beginning the share, because I don't see how I could raise it with her without risking it coming across like I'm suggesting there's a problem she hasn't picked up on. If this was my new horse, as an owner I'd be straight onto a saddle fitter for advice, but I don't have the power to do that, nor do I want to tell the owner she should.


----------



## flyingfeet (17 November 2010)

I won't be using treats with retraining my new one or my babies, as they should learn to do it without the expectation of food. Although not ruling it out entirely as could be the key to a tricky one! 

Walking off or twisting round to you when mounting isn't a sign of discomfort, more lack of training or in the odd case could be cold backed. More often they are never taught properly and have bad habits

However if you think the saddle isn't right, the sweat patterns look odd, or white hairs etc you should raise this with the owner.


----------



## cazrider (17 November 2010)

Sennie was a total pain when I first got him. He'd just swing away. Now, he stands like a rock until I am on and have fiddled around and am ready to leave. Yes, he does get a treat, but knows that he has to stand until I am ready before he gets it.

He will also do this wherever I am. If I say "stand", he knows he just can't move. It is really useful when I've had to get off and back on again in all sorts of situations, including on a fun ride once, where I got back on from a jump while others were cantering past. He stood like a rock while I got on, had his treat, then bounced off after the others. To be honest, i think its worth a treat for this level of flexibility from him. I'm not sure I'd do this if he hadn't been 12 when I got him. I can see that a youngster should probably be taught without the treat.

I started when someone was with me, so that they held his head and kept his bum from moving. Then when I was on, he got the treat from me, as rider. Then we graduated to friend just keeping his bum in, then friend just standing, then no friend. it took him about four goes in total to be pretty good, and about a week to be fool proof.

I'd say that as your lad is a foodie, he'll get it very quickly.


----------



## kyanya (17 November 2010)

Jen_Cots said:



			I won't be using treats with retraining my new one or my babies, as they should learn to do it without the expectation of food. Although not ruling it out entirely as could be the key to a tricky one! 

Walking off or twisting round to you when mounting isn't a sign of discomfort, more lack of training or in the odd case could be cold backed. More often they are never taught properly and have bad habits

However if you think the saddle isn't right, the sweat patterns look odd, or white hairs etc you should raise this with the owner.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting you say it doesn't need to be a sign of discomfort - when we were on the ground, away from the block, I stood by his head, then moved to his side, and he swung round to keep his head by my side. I tried it again and he did the same. As he does when I'm trying to mount! 

How would you train without food Jen_Cots? Just looking for everyone method's so I have a good amount of ideas to try.


----------



## kyanya (19 November 2010)

I tried again with him last night - every time he walked away/pivoted at mounting block I walked him in a circle back to mounting block. He became more and more relucant to walk to the block though, but I insisted, and said 'stand' when I halted him at the block. After 15mins of this, he did stand for me to get on, but this coincided with someone walking out from the barn across the yard where we'd previously been alone - again it feels like he got distracted from moving away from the block and let me get on while he was thinking about something else.

I didn't have any treats on me, so just gave him loads of praise verbally and made a fuss of him. Really don't feel like I've cracked it for next time though, although maybe if I start making him walk in circles again he'll remember how bored he was and stand sooner? Hope so!


----------



## scarymare (19 November 2010)

Hi

Food can be really effective here.  My baby gets a treat when I'm on (I'm rubbish at mounting) and its really sorted out his issues (he used to stand up).  However my mare is a nightmare (she thinks she's cold backed) and I have to put food on a barrel to mount her and if she thinks there isn't enough she wont stand.  I've actually had a nasty fall when she spun round really quickly before I was fully on.  I get some very funny looks at shows though but I don't really mind about that.  So worth a try I think


----------



## AndySpooner (19 November 2010)

Firstly, you should be happy that the saddle is not causing pain, if you are sure the fitting is ok and his back is ok then I would train him to stand at the mounting block or anywhere else you choose to mount.

You should consider that you may have to re mount sometime when you are out on a hack, and why should you not be able to get on and off as many times as you want, wherever you want.

I would steer very clear of wedging him in anywhere or trying to restrict his movement by blocking him in. If he feels trapped and decides to panic you could be really hurt, and so could he.

I would spend lots of time getting him to stand near the mounting block, in the proper position before you get on. Keep asking him to stand and relax in the proper position before you allow him to move away.

When he is happy and relaxed at standing still then I would get onto the block myself. If he moves away keep putting him back. If you can do it without getting down this is better, if he gets you jumping on and off the block he will keep doing it.

When he is happy to stand relaxed, with you on the block, put your foot in the stirup and stand in it but don't put your leg over. Only when he will let you stand in the stirup without him moving should you attempt to put your leg over and sit in the saddle.

Once you are sitting in the saddle, I would wait untill he is relaxed and not moving, then I would get off.
I would keep getting on and off until he is completly relaxed about it, before riding him away.

This takes time and patience, but when you have finished you can be confident that he will be excellent to mount and will allow you to do so at any time.

By training him to stand properly you will not need to offer treats as an inducement to do the right thing.

If you do not train him to stand properly he will up the anti every time you try to mount until it becomes impossible or you have an accident.

Once he allows you to get on and off without any problem, I'd teach him to do the same from the other side, in the same way. My mare has been through all this and I can mount from either side from whatever I want or from the ground on either side. All it takes is time and patience, no tricks or inducements.


----------



## kyanya (19 November 2010)

Thanks for the advice AndySpooner. 

I'm fairly sure if I walk him to the mounting block and stand with him at his head, he'll stand there happily for as long as I want without moving away. It's when I leave his head to get on the mounting block that he starts moving. I tried last night to make him step back towards the block whilst I'm still on the block by using the reins, but it didn't work. I think someone else suggested using a whip, but I've heard that he can put a buck in when you use a whip when ridden. I've not carried a whip with him yet, not really sure if he's actually scared of it or if he just protests when it's used on him.

So unfortunately he is making me get back off the block to walk him back round to the correct place. Would it be more effective to ask someone else to stand with him to start? Perhaps if I could ask someone else to hold him at the block whilst using a firm 'stand' and lots of praise afterwards, we might make some progress


----------



## AndySpooner (19 November 2010)

Can't help you with whips or crops I'm afraid as I don't own any nor do I use them. 

Perhaps you should practise your groundwork skills with him and just get him standing relaxed in the yard, then try getting him to do the same near your mounting block.

Its not really about the block, it's just getting him to stand and relax, when you ask him to.


----------



## Fellewell (19 November 2010)

The thing with circling him is that you're also doing groundwork. This makes you more confident handling him and you'll start to position his body without even thinking about it. You'll also get fed up walking him round and you will be firmer with him, then you won't need a crop at all.


----------



## kyanya (19 November 2010)

I can get him to stand where I want though when I'm at his head, and he'll stay there. In fact, he follows me without me even holding the reins (well, maybe not to the mounting block, but on the yard if I walk off, he'll come along too if he's not tied up). The problem comes when I move away from his head at the mounting block, when I've effectively lost control. I'm not sure walking endless circles is going to help that, unless you think horse will get bored and stay put.

I'm not 100% sure if he knows that he's supposed to stand at the block but is choosing to ignore that for whatever reason, of if he doesn't understand what I want of him because he's never had to do it before. Ideally I'd like a solution that would work for both of these situations. Either way I think I need him to learn the stand command, which will work whether I'm by his head or not, but ideally without treats because I don't want a 15.1 cob in my pockets!


----------

