# Black stallion with coloured sheath



## gypsy cob (27 October 2011)

Would he have coloured breeding or do some solid bred horses have colourd sheaths


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## KarynK (27 October 2011)

What you see is mottled skin and that is usually associated with some kind of spotting pattern, Characteristic and patterned Appaloosas usually have mottled skin in the area of the genitals as do a lot of coloureds.  But it could be something that happened whilst he was in the uterus as any trauma at that stage can affect skin pigment distribution.


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## s4sugar (28 October 2011)

If you don't know his breeding why isn't he a gelding?

To answer the question - many horses have white splashes on the belly. This could fall on the sheath.


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## sarahhelen1977 (28 October 2011)

Do you mean his sheath or his penis? My bay stallion has a pink patch on his penis, which I believe is common for solid colour stallions


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## mr fields (3 November 2011)

yes somewhere he will have a coloured gene, the gene may not come out in any of his youngstock or their youngstock, you may never see a coloured sired by him but he will definatly have a coloured gene somewhere in his breeding


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## Mugsgame (3 November 2011)

mr fields said:



			yes somewhere he will have a coloured gene, the gene may not come out in any of his youngstock or their youngstock, you may never see a coloured sired by him but he will definatly have a coloured gene somewhere in his breeding 

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I couldn't comment whether or not the patch means he is genetically coloured or not, or whether or not he should be bred from - but if he IS coloured he must carry at least one, if not a pair of coloured genes and this means he would have at least 50% chance of passing on his colouring.  It would be very unusual for a coloured stallion to never throw a coloured foal, the chances of that are miniscule.

Very easily tested for though.


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## Spook (3 November 2011)

Many Highland stallions have a white/pink patch on their penis, and they are considered a solid color?


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## gypsy cob (5 November 2011)

sarahhelen1977 said:



			Do you mean his sheath or his penis? My bay stallion has a pink patch on his penis, which I believe is common for solid colour stallions
		
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yea his penis i was just trying to be polite sorry


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## gypsy cob (5 November 2011)

Spook said:



			Many Highland stallions have a white/pink patch on their penis, and they are considered a solid color?
		
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i think you could be right i think he's a fell pony but he's only 11,1hh and coming 3yr have anyone seen them that small at that age


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## mr fields (6 November 2011)

gypsy cob said:



			yea his penis i was just trying to be polite sorry
		
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ah i too thought you ment his sheath not his penis, if it was on his sheath then he could have a coloured gene somewhere.


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## mr fields (6 November 2011)

Mugsgame said:



			I couldn't comment whether or not the patch means he is genetically coloured or not, or whether or not he should be bred from - but if he IS coloured he must carry at least one, if not a pair of coloured genes and this means he would have at least 50% chance of passing on his colouring.  It would be very unusual for a coloured stallion to never throw a coloured foal, the chances of that are miniscule.

Very easily tested for though.
		
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yes u are right it would be unusual for him not to sire any coloureds but it has been known to happen, it does also depend on the mare and its breeding aswell


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## Erin (6 November 2011)

mr fields said:



			yes somewhere he will have a coloured gene, the gene may not come out in any of his youngstock or their youngstock, you may never see a coloured sired by him but he will definatly have a coloured gene somewhere in his breeding 

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The coloured gene is dominant, so if he has a coloured gene, he will be coloured.


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## mr fields (7 November 2011)

Erin said:



			The coloured gene is dominant, so if he has a coloured gene, he will be coloured.
		
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yes you are right, but he doesnt have to be fully coloured i.e a coloured sheath, and a coloured gene is not dominant unless both mare and stallion are coloured or he is homozygous. as the coloured gene would be recognised as C and a black would also be recongised as a B therfore there would be 50/50 chance of getting a solid black or coloured. colour genetics are so hard to get your head round it has took me 33 years lol  one of my mares is a coloured and the stallion i used was dark bay and my foal is a realy rich chesnut...... so therfore somewhere eigther at the back of my stallion or mare their is a chesnut.


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## s4sugar (7 November 2011)

mr fields said:



			yes you are right, but he doesnt have to be fully coloured i.e a coloured sheath, and a coloured gene is not dominant unless both mare and stallion are coloured or he is homozygous. as the coloured gene would be recognised as C and a black would also be recongised as a B therfore there would be 50/50 chance of getting a solid black or coloured. colour genetics are so hard to get your head round it has took me 33 years lol  one of my mares is a coloured and the stallion i used was dark bay and my foal is a realy rich chesnut...... so therfore somewhere eigther at the back of my stallion or mare their is a chesnut.
		
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Not quite. Tobiano is a dominant gene so if the horse had it it would be expressed but there is a chance of such minimal expression that only a couple of white hairs grow in the mane for example. A horse homozygous for tobiano will pass the gene to all offspring. 
Chestnut is recessive to bay and black so can be hidden through generations but has to come from both sides.
Colour genetics is easy - getting the results you want is not. 
DNA testing is not expensive.


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## mr fields (7 November 2011)

s4sugar said:



			Not quite. Tobiano is a dominant gene so if the horse had it it would be expressed but there is a chance of such minimal expression that only a couple of white hairs grow in the mane for example. A horse homozygous for tobiano will pass the gene to all offspring. 
Chestnut is recessive to bay and black so can be hidden through generations but has to come from both sides.
Colour genetics is easy - getting the results you want is not. 
DNA testing is not expensive.
		
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yes a homozygous horse`s colour genetic would be described as HH if the horse is not homozygous it would be recognised as Hh meaning there would only be a 50/50 chance of getting a coloured depending the breeding on both sides. yes colour genetics is easy with experienced people who know about genetics other wise it is very confusing. i had my homozygous coloured 2 year old colt DNA test last year i cant remember how much i was charged but it wasnt very much at all.


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## madeleine1 (7 November 2011)

s4sugar said:



			If you don't know his breeding why isn't he a gelding?

To answer the question - many horses have white splashes on the belly. This could fall on the sheath.
		
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maybe hes amazing in his own right, or they breed him and have looked after a stallion befor and like having him like that. maybe they know one generation back. maybe they only know his mums line so worth breeding from but dnt no if there are any coloured on his dads side. maybe hes a rescue case and better of sorting out lots of other things first. lots of reasons y u dnt just cut his balls of.


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## Dexter (7 November 2011)

madeleine1 said:



			maybe hes amazing in his own right, or they breed him and have looked after a stallion befor and like having him like that. maybe they know one generation back. maybe they only know his mums line so worth breeding from but dnt no if there are any coloured on his dads side. maybe hes a rescue case and better of sorting out lots of other things first. lots of reasons y u dnt just cut his balls of.
		
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But 10,000 more reasons why you WOULD geld him rather than leave him entire!


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## EstherYoung (8 November 2011)

My 100% bay arab has a splodgey willy. The only other white on him is his blaze.

(Belly splashes are more likely to be sabino markings anyway, rather than tobiano. Many breeds that don't permit coloured horses do permit sabino markings as they are a different gene)

ps This is a very bizarre thread


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## madeleine1 (8 November 2011)

Dexter said:



			But 10,000 more reasons why you WOULD geld him rather than leave him entire!
		
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yer but i was just answering the question,


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## Minxie (8 November 2011)

"My 100% bay arab has a splodgey willy. The only other white on him is his blaze"

spodgey willy. Just when I think my brain was going to burst with genetic science speak along comes a post I understand  

it's one of the great thing about HHO is the genuine wealth of knowledge here. I can't make head nor tail (no pun intended) of genetics and in real awe of those who do


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