# Any Cheval Liberte Trailer Owners With Dangerous Floor?



## Passtheshampoo (1 September 2011)

Just seen info on Robinson's Requisite trailers with dangerous floors. 
Very interesting as we bought a brand new Cheval Liberte 1003XL in Sept 2007. We only use the trailer infrequently and it's been serviced regularly so hasn't been hammered and has been well cared for. We took my RID mare to a show last September and when we got back home  opened the rear ramp and were shocked to see that a small rear left section of flooring had dropped out of the floor frame. Fortunately our youngster is very level headed and a good traveller so hadn't got upset or injured on the journey home, but it could have been so much worse. 
We ended up taking the trailer to a CL Dealership to have the old plywood floor ripped out and a new polyester floor fitted by the Cheval Liberte fitter. The fitter also fitted another support bar under the trailer floor which was they obviously thought was needed. I did ask at the time if this was a recall problem etc but was told it wasn't. 
Basically we've paid out for a new floor on a relatively new trailer and I'm just wondering if this cost should have been borne by the manufacturer. I was very miffed at the time but was just glad my horse hadn't been hurt. 
If anyone else has been in a similar situation please PM me as I'd be interested to hear if you have taken the matter up with the Trailer Supplier/Manufacturer and any outcome.
Thanks Lynda


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## Persephone (1 September 2011)

I have a Cheval Liberte which I have had no problems with, but I am just wondering

1. How long was the warranty?
2. Who told it was not a recall problem ie dealership or was fitter just commenting?
3. Did they give an opinion why/how it happened?
4. Maybe you can take this up with the person who last serviced it?
5. Had the floor actually rotted or had it shifted in the frame?
6. Why have you left it another year to act?

Those were just questions that occurred to me reading your post!


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## Joyous70 (1 September 2011)

Ive been advised to check the floor of my trailer, purchased in 2008.


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## Passtheshampoo (1 September 2011)

Hi
The trailer had a 12mth warranty.
The floor was damaged Sept 10 and after having trouble finding a trailer repairer who would renew the floor it was repaired at a reputable dealership in Dec 10.
The Dealers gave the impression that they knew plywood floors weren't up to the job but there was no recall and they didn't say if they'd come across the prob before (otherwise I'd have realised it wasn't a one off). 
The floor had sunk where my horses near hind hoof was. It looked as though the back edge of the floor had sunk and therefore slipped off the framework rim. 
A previous service had not mentioned the floor but then we check it before each outing and it wasn't showing any signs of rot etc which is worrying.
At the time I was pretty miffed at having to put a new floor in a well cared for/little used  3yr old trailer but was just glad my horse was ok. I do wonder whether the original plywood floors may not be "fit for purpose" and as such perhaps should have been replaced via a recall FOC.


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## Kokopelli (1 September 2011)

I got mine in 09 and after hearing about the requisite we rung up the garage that do our servicing and said it should be fine but we're getting it checked anyway as a precaution.


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## Persephone (1 September 2011)

FPErin said:



			Hi
The trailer had a 12mth warranty.
The floor was damaged Sept 10 and after having trouble finding a trailer repairer who would renew the floor it was repaired at a reputable dealership in Dec 10.
The Dealers gave the impression that they knew plywood floors weren't up to the job but there was no recall and they didn't say if they'd come across the prob before (otherwise I'd have realised it wasn't a one off). 
The floor had sunk where my horses near hind hoof was. It looked as though the back edge of the floor had sunk and therefore slipped off the framework rim. 
A previous service had not mentioned the floor but then we check it before each outing and it wasn't showing any signs of rot etc which is worrying.
At the time I was pretty miffed at having to put a new floor in a well cared for/little used  3yr old trailer but was just glad my horse was ok. I do wonder whether the original plywood floors may not be "fit for purpose" and as such perhaps should have been replaced via a recall FOC.
		
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Yes I bet you were miffed. I would be too! 

Only thing I can think is to contact the dealer you got it from. I bet the people who replaced the floor won't back you up though 

Was your floor rubber covered?


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## Passtheshampoo (1 September 2011)

Hi
Yes the floor was rubber matted and sealed along the edges. 
I would like to advise all CL trailer owners with plywood floors to ask about having the frame reinforced with an extra strut at the back as my floor appeared "sound". It didn't appear to have the infastructure to hold it and the weight of a horse up.


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## Carefreegirl (1 September 2011)

Do they make them with Ali' floors nows ? Just wondering as I know 3 people who have bought these trailers within the last 18months. I'll mention it to them anyway. Very scary tho


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## Persephone (1 September 2011)

FPErin said:



			Hi
Yes the floor was rubber matted and sealed along the edges. 
I would like to advise all CL trailer owners with plywood floors to ask about having the frame reinforced with an extra strut at the back as my floor appeared "sound". It didn't appear to have the infastructure to hold it and the weight of a horse up.
		
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Thanks, I am going to check mine again early!


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## Passtheshampoo (1 September 2011)

Hi

Yes they come with ali floors now (well there's a surprise!!). I think the thinner plywood floors were standard around the time I bought mine so your friends should be ok. There is obviously a reason why the manufacturers have moved away from the original flooring.............  I can't say whether the supporting framework has been altered since I bought mine but I'm happier now I have the extra support under my new floor. Thank goodness my horse is such a good traveller as I'd hate to think what a big strapping RID would have done to the original floor had she been a  restless sort.


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## Joyous70 (1 September 2011)

carefreegirl said:



			Do they make them with Ali' floors nows ? Just wondering as I know 3 people who have bought these trailers within the last 18months. I'll mention it to them anyway. Very scary tho
		
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Yes if you look on the website, it states they all come with ali floors as standard now.


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## flyingfeet (1 September 2011)

Most trailer manufacturers have had problems 

Our ifor severed the back legs of my fathers hunter, because they used composite ply floors and didn't bother sealing the edges; so a 2ft x 2ft section dropped out 

They just paid us to keep quiet and offered very cheap ali floor refits for £300!


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## Carefreegirl (1 September 2011)

Just looked on the one on my yard (which is the earliest bought of the 3) and it says date of manufacture 10 2008 and she bought it new. I'll get her to look on the website or check her owners manual, mattings sealed so can't check and can't tell by looking underneath


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## BeckyD (12 September 2011)

Mine was sold to me as having a polyester floor - I was told there was no wood in it but I'm worried that it might have wood between the polyester?  I said I didn't want one with wooden floor, so this is what they sold me.  How would we know?  It is due for servicing so I'll obviously ask the garage, but I din't know whether anyone knows whether the polyester is good or bad?


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## indi4 (12 September 2011)

I use to own one of these and was very shocked by the quality of these trailers.  When new it look very well made, and the selling point to me was the low towing weight.  It was lightly used and after owning it for a couple of years my boyfriend was driving behind me and said that it didn't look very stable, on closer inspection the roof was coming away from the sides, it couldn't handle the weight of a horse leaning against the sides, so this is somthing else to be wary off.


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## Reacher (12 September 2011)

Thanks for posting this - I have a 2003 CL apparently with a ply floor - it was serviced recently but ive no idea whether they check the floor.  
It is rubber covered - Can it be inspected from underneath?

It is about 5 or 6 yo


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## Frans (12 September 2011)

Here in France a series of Cheval Liberté trailers were recalled to have their plywood floors replaced due to a fault in the way the wood was treated before importation. I don't recall the precise dates and details (could probably hunt them out) but I think it was for certain models manufactured over a period of months during 2007.
The service we got frojm Cheval Liberté as excellent - we bought our van second-hand knowing about the problem and CL changed the floor (upgrade to aluminium at half price), then fixed a few other little problems and delivered it back to us at no extra cost. I was impressed!


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## clait (12 September 2011)

My horse fell through the floor of a 2007 cheval trailer.
Cheval told me they had a bad batch of wood flooring in that year.
took me a year to get a new trailer from them i also told trading standards, Cheval told them i was a one of.
I asked why they didnt recall them and got no reply.
If you have one of these trailers i would take it back and ask for a new floor.


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## clait (12 September 2011)

also your floor will look fine as it is sealed, when my horse went through the floor it was found to be unsuitable for purpose.


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## Passtheshampoo (13 September 2011)

I emailed the main supplier in Wales last week and have yet have heard nothing. I will be taking the matter further as in my opinion there should have been/ should be a recall on the 2007 manufactured trailers before someone elses horse goes through the plywood floor.


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## fjordhorsefan (13 September 2011)

I got my trailer in Dec 2006, and emailed the dealer to ask if it was affected.  I recall it being some sort of plastic in the floor, but there must be wood in there somewhere too.  The dealer advised me to get the floor checked, which I will be doing asap.  If it is knackered then I will certainly not be paying for a new one!!


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## clait (13 September 2011)

Nobody should have to pay for a new floor as the wood they used wasnt fit for purpose.


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## Passtheshampoo (14 September 2011)

Thanx for reply Frans. That's very interesting that there's been a recall of the 2007 trailers in France but not in the UK.

I have PMd you.


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## Frans (15 September 2011)

For those interested, the recall in France applied to vans with serial numbers between: WO 0007 and WO 2294 due to the wood for the floors being treated (resined) on one side only instead of both. I believe it was the wood supplier who had to cover the costs.

FPErin - PMing back now


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## poppy6 (17 September 2011)

I bought a new 2003 series trailer in 2008 it's checked on a regular basis. A few weeks ago we found the floor had gone soft in the area where the horses front feet stand.  I got in touch with the people who sold us the trailer and they told me to start with it would cost me £300 to put a new wooden floor in and £500 to fit an aluminium floor. The present floor is sealed inside and underneath making it difficult to see exactly what the problem is. 

After a couple of phone calls and emails the situation has changed slightly, the agent for CL who sold us the trailer has agreed the floor will be replaced with a new wooden floor I don't pay a penny or I can have an aluminium floor fitted for £300, the trailer hasn't yet been seen by the agent but they know there is problem with the floors.  We are waiting to hear when the work is going to be done


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## poppy6 (17 September 2011)

Meant to add the agents know of at least 5 other trailers with this problem


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## Louby (17 September 2011)

I looked at these a good few years ago and spoke to a dealer who asked what sort of horse I had, he then suggested I bought the xl?? as he said the ramps werent sturdy enough on the others for a MW type horse.  The xl had the additional strut to support it.


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## gillallen (17 September 2011)

I brought a cheval liberte trailer 3 years ago the 21 mil less than an inch thick is bowing front and back where horses feet are on drivers side . We are having to wait untill a fitter from cheval comes to england to replace it with a 22mil floor ( THAT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME ) ... Now they make them with aluminum floors i wonder why ? I have done alot of miles and now can go no where .


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## miscat (20 September 2011)

The cheval liberte floor is sealed underneath with fibre glass, which goes up at the edges so the ply wood sits in a sort of bath which collects water. It is possible to replace the floor quite easily but there is a more serious problem that cannot be fixed and that is the walls. The walls are made of ply wood and the bottom of them are very close the the floor which means that all the gunk that collects in along the edges soaks up into the walls and rots them. So even if you replace the floor you'll having rotting walls. I am incommunication with CL in the uk about ours and am so far very unimpressed with the service. I have produced a pdf that documents the problems in great detail with lots of pictures. If anyone wants it they can have a copy.


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## miscat (20 September 2011)

Underneath I think you will see a layer of fibre glass, probably grey.


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## miscat (20 September 2011)

I think if you look underneath all you will see is some grey fibre glass. If there is a problem you should see a sunken section and it may be spongy if you stand on it.

I've not read every post yet so maybe someone has answered the question already: Has anyone been given a replacement floor after say 3 years?


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## clait (20 September 2011)

i was given a new cheval gold trailer to shut me up after my horse fell through the floor.


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## clait (20 September 2011)

i sold it and now have a lorry, i would never put my horse in a cheval trailer again.
if i see one at a show i tell the owners my story and tell them to take it back to the dealer and get a new floor.


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## gillallen (20 September 2011)

miscat said:



			Underneath I think you will see a layer of fibre glass, probably grey.
		
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thank you for your reply .. I also know of a cl that the back door dosnt fit anymore as boby has changed shape . The jockey door dosnt do up very wel lon ours , which makes me think the whole structure is unsafe . we first became aware when robinsons recalled there trailers because of the floors which are cl without the name on it why carnt cl own up to it and give us safe transport for our animals they soon took our money ..


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## gillallen (20 September 2011)

clait said:



			i was given a new cheval gold trailer to shut me up after my horse fell through the floor.
		
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how terrible . thank god that didnt happen to us .in a big fight with the people we brought ours of .. If i give you my email address could you send me your story I think we need to do something to get all the plywood floored trailer owners aware 
Davidgillallen@aol.com


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## clait (20 September 2011)

I think horse and hound should do a  feature on this like they did the robinsons one, people dont seam to know they are the same thing.


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## gillallen (20 September 2011)

gillallen said:



			thank you for your reply .. I also know of a cl that the back door dosnt fit anymore as boby has changed shape . The jockey door dosnt do up very wel lon ours , which makes me think the whole structure is unsafe . we first became aware when robinsons recalled there trailers because of the floors which are cl without the name on it why carnt cl own up to it and give us safe transport for our animals they soon took our money ..
		
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have just had reply from lady who,s horse fell through floor if i give you my email could you send me details of your problems . I think all cl with ply wood floors should be recalled 
Davidgillallen@aol.com


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## gillallen (20 September 2011)

clait said:



			I think horse and hound should do a  feature on this like they did the robinsons one, people dont seam to know they are the same thing.
		
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could you send me an email of details of any faults you have come across , agree we need to do something before another horse or pony is put in danger 
Davidgillallen@aol.com


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## Lennyfan (20 September 2011)

Have just had my Robinsons trailer at a CL dealership to have the plywood floor checked care of Robinsons.  Have been told it's absolutely fine, no defects.  Not sure if I'm happy with that or not, kind of feel like I've been a bit fobbed off!


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## clait (20 September 2011)

There is know way to tell buy looking at it as the floor is sealed, how did they test it? did they pull back the rubber on the top?


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## gillallen (20 September 2011)

FPErin said:



			Just seen info on Robinson's Requisite trailers with dangerous floors. 
Very interesting as we bought a brand new Cheval Liberte 1003XL in Sept 2007. We only use the trailer infrequently and it's been serviced regularly so hasn't been hammered and has been well cared for. We took my RID mare to a show last September and when we got back home  opened the rear ramp and were shocked to see that a small rear left section of flooring had dropped out of the floor frame. Fortunately our youngster is very level headed and a good traveller so hadn't got upset or injured on the journey home, but it could have been so much worse. 
We ended up taking the trailer to a CL Dealership to have the old plywood floor ripped out and a new polyester floor fitted by the Cheval Liberte fitter. The fitter also fitted another support bar under the trailer floor which was they obviously thought was needed. I did ask at the time if this was a recall problem etc but was told it wasn't. 
Basically we've paid out for a new floor on a relatively new trailer and I'm just wondering if this cost should have been borne by the manufacturer. I was very miffed at the time but was just glad my horse hadn't been hurt. 
If anyone else has been in a similar situation please PM me as I'd be interested to hear if you have taken the matter up with the Trailer Supplier/Manufacturer and any outcome.
Thanks Lynda
		
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could you email details need as many reports as possible 
Davidgillaqllen@aol.com


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## miscat (20 September 2011)

If the floor is wet it will have a visible sag and be soft under foot.


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## gillallen (20 September 2011)

indi4 said:



			I use to own one of these and was very shocked by the quality of these trailers.  When new it look very well made, and the selling point to me was the low towing weight.  It was lightly used and after owning it for a couple of years my boyfriend was driving behind me and said that it didn't look very stable, on closer inspection the roof was coming away from the sides, it couldn't handle the weight of a horse leaning against the sides, so this is somthing else to be wary off.
		
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could you email me about the problems you had with your dealer thinks we are the only one .. Davidgillallen@aol.com


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## clait (20 September 2011)

My floor wasnt wet and there was no sag, just wood you would use for a shed roof not a horse trailer floor.


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## gillallen (20 September 2011)

fjordhorsefan said:



			I got my trailer in Dec 2006, and emailed the dealer to ask if it was affected.  I recall it being some sort of plastic in the floor, but there must be wood in there somewhere too.  The dealer advised me to get the floor checked, which I will be doing asap.  If it is knackered then I will certainly not be paying for a new one!!
		
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i am collecting all reports on cl trailers could you email the faults you had with yours . Davidgillallen@aol.com


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## gillallen (20 September 2011)

poppy6 said:



			Meant to add the agents know of at least 5 other trailers with this problem
		
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could you email me about the faults you know off thanks 
Davidgillallen@aol.com


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## gillallen (20 September 2011)

Lennyfan said:



			Have just had my Robinsons trailer at a CL dealership to have the plywood floor checked care of Robinsons.  Have been told it's absolutely fine, no defects.  Not sure if I'm happy with that or not, kind of feel like I've been a bit fobbed off![/QUOTEI found we had a very spongey feeling on floor . got someone to stand inside and could see it bowing . I am being told i an
m the only person now i have read reports i know i am
 not .. trying to get as many reports as poss . 
Davidgillallen@aol.com

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## miscat (21 September 2011)

I've put the pictures from my pdf on a facebook page so people can see them more easily...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cheval-Liberte-horse-trailers/159423744146025

TC


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## clait (21 September 2011)

Bloody hell, these people need to be stopped, they just do not care about our horses they take our money and turn a blind eye.


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## miscat (21 September 2011)

For the past few months I have been in touch with the uk importer, Cheval Liberte uk so they are very familiar with the problem. Despite promises I have so far got nowhere. Perhaps it would be a good time to bombard this man with emails and phone calls  ...

Arwel Davies
07974 304717 

sales@cheval-liberte.co.uk


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## clait (21 September 2011)

That man is a prat!


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## Passtheshampoo (22 September 2011)

Hi All

Thanks so much for your replies to my thread. I really wish I'd have posted it last year but thought I was a one off. For those people who are having probs with their trailers please try Consumer Direct. They will refer the matter on to Trading Standards. The more referrals they get the easier it will be for them to take action.


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## Reacher (22 September 2011)

I'm happy to contact him however all I can tell him is my CL has given no problems but I've been told there may be a problem with it - might not get much response from CL UK

PS - just edited to add - please could you keep me informed of any developments with CL - thanks



miscat said:



			For the past few months I have been in touch with the uk importer, Cheval Liberte uk so they are very familiar with the problem. Despite promises I have so far got nowhere. Perhaps it would be a good time to bombard this man with emails and phone calls  ...

Arwel Davies
07974 304717 

sales@cheval-liberte.co.uk

Click to expand...


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## Princess P (22 September 2011)

This is all very worrying!

I bought a brand new trailer in early 2009 from Robinsons, it was manufactured in 2008.

We recently received a letter saying we need to check the floor, but as it has polyester bonded underneath and rubber on top you can't see the acytual wood, so Robinsins paid for it to go to a local CL dealer. 

The dealer has basically jumped up and down in it and said it didn't collapse so it seems OK but there is no way they can say 100% without ripping up the rubber and looking at the wood, which would ruin the floor anyway.

I now don't trust the floor and don't want to risk my precious horse in it, just in case it's not safe.

I am very unhappy that a trailer I paid nearly £4k for brand new little over 2 years ago now has a big question mark over its safety. The whole reason I bought a brand new one was that you get piece of mind that it's safe!

Am going to pay for a new ali floor to be put in, v annoyed that I will be so much out of pocket, but at the end of the day my horse's safety is my priority. Lesson learned - won't be buying CL again!

Don't know if this helps but we were told that in 2006 CL changed to a cheaper supplier of plywood, but by 2007 had realised it was sub-standard and changed back again. Was also told that you can't expect these wooden floors to last more than 5 years! Ha! They didn't say that when I was parting with my cash!


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## clait (22 September 2011)

Why the hell are you paying for a new floor, do you think a man jumping up and down is a good test? take it back and demand a new floor or a  proper test and if they do any damage they will have to put it right.


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## miscat (23 September 2011)

The good people at Horse and Hound called me today to ask more about the floor problem and they will investigate...


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## Passtheshampoo (23 September 2011)

Well they can speak to me if they want. 
I'm happy to help in any way I can to make horse owners out there aware of this problem (not everyone has internet access). 
Have just had my hair done and can give the horse a bit of a brush for the photos!!!!! Seriously though, the more cases of dangerous floors that are found the more of a voice we'll have. They may be able to fob off 2 or 3 customers but sounds like there's a heck of a lot more than that who are wanting answers and action from Cheval Liberte.


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## shellonabeach (23 September 2011)

I don't understand why Robinsons trailers have been subject to recall and inspected and yet CL are not interested in helping owners of CL trailers.

I have a 2007 1003XL CL.  I have not used it for the last 10 months and it has been in storage, I am going to collect it next week and inspect it.

I phoned CL a week ago asking for advice to be told how to check the floor, to look it it from ontop and under for any soft areas ontop or cracking in fibreglass underneath.  Problem is the blasted sealed rubber means it is impossible to check the state of the wood.

Until I know for certain that it is safe I am not prepared to put a horse in it, how anyone can determine whether it is safe I do not know.

I think I'm going to take mine to a nearby CL dealer who also does servicing and specifically have the floor checked.

After seeing miscats pictures of a trailer identical to mine I am seriously concerned, because what you can't see from an external inspection are what the serious problems are...


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## miscat (23 September 2011)

The floor should feel solid if you stamp about on it. The wood at the centre of the trailer on ours was still dry so probably that will tell you how it should feel. Then check the edges. The really damaged areas on our was at the back 2 corners and they were very soft and we could see a sag. If there's any give in the floor I wouldn't use it.


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## clait (23 September 2011)

just had a phone call from the nice man at horse and hound, they are thinking of running a bit next week-yipee!


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## miscat (23 September 2011)

Great news!


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## gillallen (23 September 2011)

clait said:



			just had a phone call from the nice man at horse and hound, they are thinking of running a bit next week-yipee!
		
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I spoke to my CL dealer today He told me of 5 trailers he knew about with problems one of which the horse went through the floor , also that he knew there was a batch of trailers with faulty ply wood floors but dont get cross with him ... SHAME HE DID<NT TELL ME ABOUT IT ...  . He has one coming in on monday to have a new floor . He can give me a number in Wales to phone to see about a alli floor no way do I want another ply wood one .. And why should i phone he took my money its up to him . Been in touch with Trading Standards under sale of goods act 1979 we have rights .. I spoke to Horse and Hound today we need to make a lot of noise and get these unsafe trailers put right FREE OF CHARGE . I have hired a trailer tomorrow to go out every CL trailer I see I will be speaking to Owner to warn them before any thing happens .. Gill


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## miscat (23 September 2011)

Yes, Gill we should be aiming for the problem to be put right free of charge. CL have made a mistake with these floors and they need to fix it.

I agree also that we need to make lots of noise. The more calls, emails, internet posts (twitter, facebook etc) the better.


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## gillallen (23 September 2011)

miscat said:



			Yes, Gill we should be aiming for the problem to be put right free of charge. CL have made a mistake with these floors and they need to fix it.

I agree also that we need to make lots of noise. The more calls, emails, internet posts (twitter, facebook etc) the better.
		
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I have just been on face book and the equine pages i have told owners of CL to get them checked , Also been on ebay to dealers of CL trailers to make them aware that we are going to make a big noise about faulty floors 
.


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## micramadam (23 September 2011)

I bought one of these trailers from Robinsons in 2007 and even paid to have it shipped to The Netherlands as it seemed to be perfect for what we needed. Got the letter from Robinsons to check the floor and OH and myself have checked it underneath, inside and out,have jumped up and down on every bit we could and it seems to be ok. We have always kept it immaculately clean inside. Totally cleaned out after every trip! but.... now I'm terrified about using it especially as the camera we installed to keep an eye on the horse whilst travelling has just given up the ghost. I now am paranoid and check it all the time! E-mailed Robinsons to say we had checked and it 'appeared' to be ok but wanted advice about what we could do to strengthen the floor. Still not had a reply! Having read some of the posts on here will investigate replacing the floor with an aluminium one , just have to find a dealer here who does it and I know it's gonna cost me a lot more than in the UK. Am expecting to pay upwards of 1000 euros or more but I won't scrimp when it comes to my horses' safety. 
For reference, neither of the ramps close properly anymore they have to manoevured (or slammed!) to close. May also get these looked at.


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## Passtheshampoo (23 September 2011)

I only mentioned the floor in my original post but other things have been amiss with my trailer. The front ramp jammed half open half closed with us within first few months due to a faulty gas hydraulic assister. CL Dealer did post out a replacement but we paid to have it fitted. V poor galvanisation of metal catches and tow section causing rust within the first winter (despite being well greased). 
Apart from my horse almost falling through the floor when a section of the plywood gave way at the rear we have also had an ongoing problem with the brakes. When travelling an empty trailer they snatch on every time you brake (no matter how carefully) causing the wheels to skid and screech. Has done it once with daughter's pony in there (won't put my big girl back in there) so no longer use the trailer, it's parked down the drive. Two different CL Dealers have tried to remedy the problem (at our expense) but brakes still snatch on. 
These probs have occurred with a lightly used, well maintained/serviced trailer (it was my pride and joy). Front ramp has to be twisted to shut as out of alinement.

So come on Cheval Liberte what are you going to do to solve this mess?


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## gillallen (24 September 2011)

micramadam said:



			I bought one of these trailers from Robinsons in 2007 and even paid to have it shipped to The Netherlands as it seemed to be perfect for what we needed. Got the letter from Robinsons to check the floor and OH and myself have checked it underneath, inside and out,have jumped up and down on every bit we could and it seems to be ok. We have always kept it immaculately clean inside. Totally cleaned out after every trip! but.... now I'm terrified about using it especially as the camera we installed to keep an eye on the horse whilst travelling has just given up the ghost. I now am paranoid and check it all the time! E-mailed Robinsons to say we had checked and it 'appeared' to be ok but wanted advice about what we could do to strengthen the floor. Still not had a reply! Having read some of the posts on here will investigate replacing the floor with an aluminium one , just have to find a dealer here who does it and I know it's gonna cost me a lot more than in the UK. Am expecting to pay upwards of 1000 euros or more but I won't scrimp when it comes to my horses' safety. 
For reference, neither of the ramps close properly anymore they have to manoevured (or slammed!) to close. May also get these looked at.
		
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you should not have to pay for a new floor it is a faulty batch of ply wood , Keep us updated .


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## clait (26 September 2011)

The nice man at Horse and Hound told me Cheval are doing something to sort this mess out, so has anybody had a phone call,email,letter?


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## gillallen (26 September 2011)

Have not heard any thing yet .. Will let you know when I do


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## clait (26 September 2011)

Good luck!


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## BeckyD (26 September 2011)

Can anyone actually find a dealer?!  I have rung several listed on their website and apparently none of them sell CL trailers, some not for many years!  The one I bought mine from has gone out of business, unsurprisingly, as I was mis-sold mine - I was told that it had a polyester floor, no wood involved, but Arwel has just told me that the polyester ones have ply floors under the polyester   The dealer KNEW I wouldn't buy it if he'd told me the truth 

Arwel has said that I have to take mine to a dealer to have my floor checked, and that if it is faulty it'll be replaced FOC, or I can have an aluminum one for £350+ VAT.  All very well, if I could find a dealer!!!

Wish I'd just saved up a little longer and bought the Bateson I wanted   Although having said that, my trailer has given me very good service so far.


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## Lennyfan (26 September 2011)

Haven't read every single post, anyone else had problems with the gas struts?  Had 2 sheer off, front ramp and one of the back ramp.  Totally sheered off at one end, luckily the ramps aren't too heavy to operate without them but still had to replace them both.  Oh, and the bloody grooms door has never fitted right!


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## Passtheshampoo (27 September 2011)

Hi Lennyfan

Yes if you read all posts (may take you a while!) I've had probs with front ramp gas strut. My ramp jammed half open half closed not long after we bought it new. My local Dealer posted out a new one and we had that fitted. Our front ramp won't close easily. seems it's out of alinement and you have  to pull it across and bang it shut which I find really difficult as I've had a spinal fusion so my back is weak. My brakes have also been faulty for past couple of years. Had it to 2 CL Dealers neither can solve the prob. Brakes lock on at r/h side when we brake (however carefully!) causing tyres to screech and skid. Just wonder is it's because the whole trailer is slightly wonky causing more pressure on one side. Needless to say my trailer is sitting down my driveway and is unuseable. This is besides the fact that my RID went through the plywood floor in last year. Feel like sticking the b****y thing on the nearest bonfire come 5th Nov! At least the gas struts would put on a bit of a show then.


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## Hels_Bells (27 September 2011)

I also haven't read all posts but having seen some of them asked hubby to double check ours. He told me it was fine as he had got farm mechanic to weld an extra strut on back end last year ( thanks for letting me know!!) and replaced floor at back.

On Sunday reyurned home from a comp to find my precious standing on a hole around his right foot supported only by the rubber matting.  I almost feinted thinking of what could have happened if the rubber hadn't held or we'd been on s longer journey etc!  

Please everyone check all parts of your floors!!!!!!


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## clait (27 September 2011)

Cheval  trailers "All Style and no Substance"


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## clippityclop175 (27 September 2011)

Hi I'm a little confused we bought a cheval liberte 2003 xl trailer back in 2005 we bought the version with the polyester floor, as we didnt want the worry of having a wooden floor. Am I right in now thinking that this was actualy a piece of ply wood coated in plastic, and is likely to rot and could pose a danger to my horse?


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## BeckyD (27 September 2011)

clippityclop175 said:



			Hi I'm a little confused we bought a cheval liberte 2003 xl trailer back in 2005 we bought the version with the polyester floor, as we didnt want the worry of having a wooden floor. Am I right in now thinking that this was actualy a piece of ply wood coated in plastic, and is likely to rot and could pose a danger to my horse?
		
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The chap from CL told me yesterday that all the floors were wood then, so this polyester was a coating. 

Gutted. Wouldn't have bought it if I'd known.


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## wonkey_donkey (27 September 2011)

Took mine to Anglia Trailers in Bury St Edmunds yesterday. 
I bought my CL from them new in October 2008. 
They were very nice and sympathetic BUT said the floor looked fine so they wouldn't be doing any more about it because they hadn't heard anything from the CL manufacturers in France so they are not prepared to replace any floors that look ok as they will end up out of pocket.


How do I know my floor won't fall in after a further 6 months ???  

I'm not happy, I just want a safe floor to travel my horse on. I paid good money for this trailer from brand new and have looked after it well, but it means nothing now.

I intend to take it further.

Do we not have enough evidence for 'Watchdog' ???


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## Hels_Bells (27 September 2011)

wonkey_donkey said:



			Do we not have enough evidence for 'Watchdog' ???
		
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I certainly think so!!!


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## wonkey_donkey (27 September 2011)

Any volunteers to do it ????


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## miscat (28 September 2011)

So there's a news article on the floors...

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/tradenews/7544/309772.html

Questions:
1. It says '2 years ago'. Well ours was in 2007 and that's 4 years ago.
2. Surely CL know which batches were affected and they should know where those trailers went. 
3. An 'exceptionally low number developed rotten floors'. How do they know if they are not able to say which batches they were and have so far not asked people to check. There could be lots out there.


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## Princess P (28 September 2011)

Wonky Donkey - I'm in exactly the same position as you, and not happy! I have kept my trailer immaculate and it's not had heavy use so I'm not surprised it seems ok when the distributors had a superficial look at it.

However, now that this issue has come to light I won't ever be able to trust the floor again! Just in case!


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## miscat (28 September 2011)

Lennyfan said:



			Haven't read every single post, anyone else had problems with the gas struts?  Had 2 sheer off, front ramp and one of the back ramp.  Totally sheered off at one end, luckily the ramps aren't too heavy to operate without them but still had to replace them both.  Oh, and the bloody grooms door has never fitted right!
		
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Gas struts, yes. The way the top of the strut attaches is rubbish and makes the whole thing twist and eventually either the gas strut will break or more likely the bolt at the top will bend like ours did. CL sent me 2 kits to put it right and it's been ok since. The kit makes it less horrible but it is an improvement. 

Be sure to keep your gas springs greased otherwise they seize up so tight that they will break something.


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## miscat (28 September 2011)

wonkey_donkey said:



			Took mine to Anglia Trailers in Bury St Edmunds yesterday. 
I bought my CL from them new in October 2008. 
They were very nice and sympathetic BUT said the floor looked fine so they wouldn't be doing any more about it because they hadn't heard anything from the CL manufacturers in France so they are not prepared to replace any floors that look ok as they will end up out of pocket.


How do I know my floor won't fall in after a further 6 months ???  

I'm not happy, I just want a safe floor to travel my horse on. I paid good money for this trailer from brand new and have looked after it well, but it means nothing now.

I intend to take it further.

Do we not have enough evidence for 'Watchdog' ???
		
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Yes, get in touch with Dogwatch. There's no harm in it.


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## poppy6 (28 September 2011)

I was told that Cheval would replace faulty wooden floors in trailers under 5yrs old


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## clait (28 September 2011)

My floor wasnt rotten the wood they used was just to thin, and the floor will look fine because it it sealed both sides.
There is no whey of telling just by looking at it or jumping up and down on it.
Come on cheval this isnt good enough, someones horse will die.


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## Passtheshampoo (28 September 2011)

My plywood floor gave way right at the back. It sagged under the weight of my RIDs hind hoof and there was only the rubber matting holding things up. Had she stamped on the same place or been an unsettled traveller I've no doubt we'd have ended up with a seriously injured horse and possibly an RTA in the process. I still have the floor and I'm not surprised it didn't hold her weight it's just not up to the job in my opinion. When I had my floor renewed last year I was told I had to pay for it as there was no recall. It appears CL knew very well at that point and months before that there was a problem with the floors. Only reason they have admitted it now is due to the number of replies to my thread and of course because H&H have approached them. I still wish to know why French customers had a recall yet we didn't.

I'm still awaiting to hear from my Dealership regarding my trailer which is totally unsafe to use because of a longstanding seemingly unrepairable brake problem, along with all the other faults it's had from new. Perhaps CL may surprise us all and start to show that they are concerned about H&S and Customer Care. I for one would happily contact Watchdog with my story should CL fail to put the wrongs right. I will not be letting the matter drop as I'm so very annoyed about this situation.


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## clait (28 September 2011)

Any luck with trading standards?


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## Passtheshampoo (28 September 2011)

clait said:



			Any luck with trading standards?
		
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Haven't got back to me yet. I'm sure they'll have lots to investigate with this fiasco!


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## 0ldmare (29 September 2011)

I think you should take it to watchdog, its just the sort of story they would like!


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## miscat (29 September 2011)

So we have a news post in H&H though it is raises lots of questions. At least it may show the extent of the problem, i.e, people will see it and may get in touch.

Watchdog: I haven't seen this in ages and don't know what sort of thing interests them. Although it's only of interest to a small number of people there is the horse safety angle, which may appeal to them. So it's worth a try.

Trading Standards: Maybe.

In any case if you have contacted people don't wait for a reply if it's more than a day. Call back and see how it's going. If your contact is not available speak so someone else and explain the situation and ask them to get your contact to call you back. If they don't call back start again. That's how we got the H&H news story and it is just because these people are busy and other stories get priority (because other people badger them!). 

Let's also consider though what we want. We apparently have a new trailer floor if we take it to a dealer. If that's ok then the job is done. i have problems with the walls and I've already replaced the floor and I have a history with CL importer, and I'm in Denmark, which make my case different from most of yours.


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## gillallen (1 October 2011)

wonkey_donkey said:



			Took mine to Anglia Trailers in Bury St Edmunds yesterday. 
I bought my CL from them new in October 2008. 
They were very nice and sympathetic BUT said the floor looked fine so they wouldn't be doing any more about it because they hadn't heard anything from the CL manufacturers in France so they are not prepared to replace any floors that look ok as they will end up out of pocket.


How do I know my floor won't fall in after a further 6 months ???  

I'm not happy, I just want a safe floor to travel my horse on. I paid good money for this trailer from brand new and have looked after it well, but it means nothing now.

I intend to take it further.

Do we not have enough evidence for 'Watchdog' ???
		
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  We are taking ours to ANGLIA TRAILERS ON MONDAY we brought ours in 2008 .. Floo rvery spongey where front feet go. 
armed and ready for Monday ..


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## clait (1 October 2011)

Good luck with Agrimark trailers, they will do anything to get out of giving you a new floor, he knows only to well how bad these trailers are and is in on the coverup!


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## gillallen (1 October 2011)

clait said:



			Good luck with Agrimark trailers, they will do anything to get out of giving you a new floor, he knows only to well how bad these trailers are and is in on the coverup!
		
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A friend has been on another forum called explorehorse.proboards.com. post done on aug 14th makes interesting reading wewndyinfrance . saying that cheval knew about faults last year . About to join and find out more . Going fully armed .


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## gillallen (2 October 2011)

wonkey_donkey said:



			Any volunteers to do it ????
		
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I googled Watchdog , they are onine you can make your complaint there . Will get monday over and see what they say about floor first and if i dont get what i need a safe floor I will tell him i am going to make a complaint . Dont see why we should pay £420 for alli floor , I dont know it i can trust another 21mm floor that is less than an inch .


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## miscat (2 October 2011)

gillallen said:



			I googled Watchdog , they are onine you can make your complaint there . Will get monday over and see what they say about floor first and if i dont get what i need a safe floor I will tell him i am going to make a complaint . Dont see why we should pay £420 for alli floor , I dont know it i can trust another 21mm floor that is less than an inch .
		
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I put a 21mm floor in our trailer and it was quite a bit thicker than the original one. I would say the original was about 18mm thick.


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## rlhnlk (2 October 2011)

Does anyone know the exact dates of manufacture that this problem applies to? Also have there been any reported problems with trailers made after they had the faulty supply of timber?


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## Passtheshampoo (2 October 2011)

Mines a 2007 and I believe the recall trailers in France were from 2007. A CL dealer (not one we'd bought it from) replaced our floor last Dec after our RID mare started to fall through it on the way back from a show. Due to Requisite article this August I realised perhaps I wasn't a one off. We were charged for a new floor but were told it would be cheaper if the Polish CL guy fitted it when he was over delivering. 
Have recently taken the matter up with Dealership we bought it from (on advice of Trading Standards) they Dealer has said we were given a free floor last Dec and charged for fitting only WELL THATS NEWS TO ME! CL never admitted there was a prob when we had ours renewed so why would they give us a free floor??? And why were we not told we were getting a free floor at the time???  Why have I still not had any contact from CL Dealership or Main UK CL advising me to check the floor. Not everyone reads H&H. 
I want to know which trailers (dates of manufacture/serial no's) were affected and if as CL reckon there is a really low number affected tell us how many, because ours is one of them! CL knew about the problem well before my mare went through the floor and by sounds of it other people's horses too. 
My 11year old car went in for a recall earlier on in the year so why haven't CL acted upon doubts over the integrity of the floors. £££££s perhaps!


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## gillallen (2 October 2011)

We have had a small victory with the article in H and H but now we still need to carry on ,I will be checking mine tomorrow for BATCH/DATE of MANUFACTURE /SERIAL NUMBERS .. Could all cl owners do the same lets see what this comes up with ... So looking forward to taking mine in tomorrow ...Gill


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## miscat (2 October 2011)

Serial number SY9100307DE1028
Manufacture date Sept 2007.
Type 2003


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## gillallen (2 October 2011)

SY9100307DE   1028    DATE 2007   TYPE 2007 
SY907       DE   1053


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## clait (2 October 2011)

Trailer type-2003
Serial No-DE1804
Date-2006
this is whats on my invoice


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## Passtheshampoo (3 October 2011)

Trailer Type 1003XL
Manufactured Sep 2007
Serial No SY907DE1053

Floor gave way Aug 2010. Renewed Dec 2010 and was charged for it ( although they are now saying I was only charged labour, not according to my receipt states supply and fit!)

*****Update on my brakes issue locking on when you brake with an empty trailer especially downhill causing trailer to screech and skid along the road. Dealer says will have a look at them again (have been looked at 3 times already by different CL Dealers) but  says these trailers are "overbraked" and do have a tendancy to "snatch on".

Anyone else had this problem? Surely it can't be safe or do the tyres or trailer much good AND it frightens nearby pedestrians! Any mechanics know if this is normal???


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## miscat (3 October 2011)

The serial numbers are country specific. UK ones mean nothing to the Danish importer because they are issued in the importing country apparently. So if we can infer anything from the serial numbers it is just about the uk. The manufacture dates tell us how long they were manufacturing them. My trailer has the month and year of manufacture.


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## shellonabeach (3 October 2011)

Re: the brakes issue could make me cry.

I taught myself for my towing test in 2009 using my 4x4 and CL.  I took the test using this set-up.  

I only failed because the brakes locked up on the emergancy stop - it was an immediate fail and right at the start of the test although I was allowed to continue.

Obviously with a horse on board I never jammed my foot on the brake!

Like my OH said to me last night if I don't put a new floor in my CL, regardless of whether it is rotten or not, I will never sell it because quite frankly who would want to buy one!


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## miscat (3 October 2011)

I've just this minute had an email from the Danish importer who have been in touch with CL in France...

_Your complaint has been accepted, and the bottom in your trailer will be replaced free of charge.

If you wish an alu floor instead, the extra cost will be DKK 2.500,- + VAT_

That's 290 GBP plus vat.

What to do? It certainly makes the trailer saleable because as shellonabeach says it wouldn't sell very well with even our diy floor. 

A new trailer would be nice.


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## Passtheshampoo (3 October 2011)

shellonabeach said:



			Re: the brakes issue could make me cry.

I taught myself for my towing test in 2009 using my 4x4 and CL.  I took the test using this set-up.  

I only failed because the brakes locked up on the emergancy stop - it was an immediate fail and right at the start of the test although I was allowed to continue.

Obviously with a horse on board I never jammed my foot on the brake!

Like my OH said to me last night if I don't put a new floor in my CL, regardless of whether it is rotten or not, I will never sell it because quite frankly who would want to buy one!
		
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Sorry to hear you failed your towing test. Bet that moment haunts you!
I wish ours did just lock up when the brakes are slammed on but it locks up with even the gentlest of braking down hill . As we live on the Pennines most of the roads are uphill or downhill usually with lots of twisty bends. It's really stressful being in the vehicle when it does it as you are waiting for the next screech and skid.


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## gillallen (3 October 2011)

numbers so far 
SY 907 DE 1053  TYPE 2003 
SY 910 DE 1028  TYPE 2003 
           DE 1804  TYPE 2003 
SY 920 DE 1517  TYPE 2003
SY 907 DE 1053  TYPE 1003XL


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## clait (3 October 2011)

How did it go at the dealers?


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## gillallen (3 October 2011)

clait said:



			How did it go at the dealer . Owner not there after we emailed and phoned to say we would be coming in "surprise !" not .. Left enployee  to deal  with 2 irate women .He stood in trailer at front and agree its not right , asked him to go underneath whilst i jumped up and down on top . Said he could see it was not safe . We got him to sign a piece of paper and stamp it with there stamper . We then took a stanley knife to rubbermatting to look underneath as it was not stuck to floor it lifted easily to show the floor was damp .. have taken pictures .. Have asked him to phone me as yet havnt had call . Now we wait , going to get in touch with trading standards to find out where we stand now after today . Does upgrade mean saftey or does like mean same problems ..gill
		
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## Passtheshampoo (4 October 2011)

gillallen said:





clait said:



			How did it go at the dealer . Owner not there after we emailed and phoned to say we would be coming in "surprise !" not .. Left enployee  to deal  with 2 irate women .He stood in trailer at front and agree its not right , asked him to go underneath whilst i jumped up and down on top . Said he could see it was not safe . We got him to sign a piece of paper and stamp it with there stamper . We then took a stanley knife to rubbermatting to look underneath as it was not stuck to floor it lifted easily to show the floor was damp .. have taken pictures .. Have asked him to phone me as yet havnt had call . Now we wait , going to get in touch with trading standards to find out where we stand now after today . Does upgrade mean saftey or does like mean same problems ..gill
		
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Please everyone with a prob get in touch with Trading Standards NOW as the more complaints they get the less CL can fob them off and they may be forced to RECALL. Not sure how it all works as TS don't tell you what they are doing whilst carrying out their investigations. If they don't hear from you they'll assume I'm a one off.
		
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## miscat (4 October 2011)

Looking at Trading Standards it is not obvious where to go to post a complaint. Can we have a link?

I have decided almost certainly not to go for a new floor because I will still be left with wet wall bottoms. This widens and complicates the argument. Does anyone else have wet wall bottoms, peeling paint at the bottom?


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## Passtheshampoo (4 October 2011)

miscat said:



			Looking at Trading Standards it is not obvious where to go to post a complaint. Can we have a link?

I have decided almost certainly not to go for a new floor because I will still be left with wet wall bottoms. This widens and complicates the argument. Does anyone else have wet wall bottoms, peeling paint at the bottom?
		
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You need to ring Consumer Direct 08454 040506. They will refer the complaint onto Trading Standards but can give advice on what your rights are as a consumer. Certainly worth a call.

There's just a very small bumpy section to the rear of my trailer next to back ramp at the bottom. Could be a sign of something amiss with the bottom of that side. Without removing the metal sheets how else can you see any damp?


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## Simon Hay-Heddle (4 October 2011)

Very worrying to hear of all these problems. I have a 2003 Pullman which has given excellent service and tows beautifully.I haven't checked mine yet but it will get a good going over this weekend.Looks like an alloy floor is the only long term solution, After this they will be unsellable without one.


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## laurajane (4 October 2011)

I've just had to re do mine, same make and year as yours. 
Aluminum floor now so should last a life time... But it's taking the P a bit when they recalled them in France?! X


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## gillallen (5 October 2011)

miscat said:



			Looking at Trading Standards it is not obvious where to go to post a complaint. Can we have a link?

I have decided almost certainly not to go for a new floor because I will still be left with wet wall bottoms. This widens and complicates the argument. Does anyone else have wet wall bottoms, peeling paint at the bottom?
		
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When we took a stanley knife to ours at the dealers , as the floor lifted which wasnt even stuck down floor was wet and stank .gill


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## gillallen (5 October 2011)

WELL ITS OFFICAL OUR HAS A DEFECTIVE FLOOR ONE MORE TRIP AND IT WOULD HAVE GIVEN WAY ... Phoned trading stantards again yesterday to make them aware again looking at my serial numbers its the 2003 model  brought in about 2008 that is having problems .. Now phoned left message for Mr Arwel need answers . Since 2009 they no longer make trailers with plywood floor now use alli so if they replace with plywood free of charge are they old 2 yr old floors they didnt use that might also be defective or are they having to get new Marine ply one sheet of 12by8 to make them . If so would it not be better to give us free of charge Alli ones that they have instead of charging £420 for one .???? Does up grade mean sellable and safe or does free of charge mean possibley defective ??? Fight not over or new trailer would be nice . So pleased we didnt clean floor when we took it to him else he would have blamed wet foor under matting on us .. Keep every one updated on progress , also found reports of CL trailers in Ireland with defective floors ..gill


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## gillallen (5 October 2011)

Horse and Hound last week you put Cheval Liberte views in magazine do you now think you could put trailer owners comments in ..


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## miscat (5 October 2011)

To check the walls you have to look at the front of the trailer because the back has aluminium over it.

The white paint may be bubbling. The woodwork, if you can see it, would be dark and obviously damp. It happens because the end grain of this wood is sat in a permanently wet place.

It is important I think because the wooden sides are a structural component - if you took them away the metal framework would not have strength.


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## Passtheshampoo (5 October 2011)

I think a new ali floor FOC is the least they could do as it currently appears(correct me if I'm wrong) that they have known about the plywood floor prob for some considerable time yet haven't contacted any trailer owners to advise of safety issues. I actually want to sell my single trailer to get a double but who the hell is going to buy it? Perhaps I ought to make CL buy it back! I would actually have been prepared to invest in a new CL double with ali floor before all this came to light. 

Out of interest Consumer Direct have advised me to take all complaints to the Dealer where I purchased the trailer. TBH I feel like going direct to CL UK as it seems they may have been keeping the regional Dealers in the dark too in some cases. Who has everyone else complained to?


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## poppy6 (5 October 2011)

FPErin said:



			I think a new ali floor FOC is the least they could do as it currently appears(correct me if I'm wrong) that they have known about the plywood floor prob for some considerable time yet haven't contacted any trailer owners to advise of safety issues. I actually want to sell my single trailer to get a double but who the hell is going to buy it? Perhaps I ought to make CL buy it back! I would actually have been prepared to invest in a new CL double with ali floor before all this came to light. 

Out of interest Consumer Direct have advised me to take all complaints to the Dealer where I purchased the trailer. TBH I feel like going direct to CL UK as it seems they may have been keeping the regional Dealers in the dark too in some cases. Who has everyone else complained to?
		
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Good luck if you do decide to speak to CL UK the man who's in charge there is a complete  idiot who talks round in circles and says nothing helpful - I spoke to him this morning.


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## scarymare (5 October 2011)

I'm really surprised Trading Standards haven't jumped on this one.  They were awesome when somebody put up my menage lights with stolen telegraph poles and they were outstanding when my friend's employees were busy trading on her behalf for their own pockets.  Even if you get in touch with the local office they should help.... unless there have been too many cut-backs


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## Orchardbeck (5 October 2011)

miscat said:



			Watchdog: I haven't seen this in ages and don't know what sort of thing interests them. Although it's only of interest to a small number of people there is the horse safety angle, which may appeal to them. So it's worth a try.
		
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If anyone, god forbid, had a nasty episode with one of these trailers giving way on the motorway, then it becomes a rather different story, and one of public interest - if it were a wagon, drivers and operators can get in to serious trouble with the law for driving a defective vehicle, especially if it is the cause of an incident. Cheval Liberte seem to be putting horse owners in a very difficult position here. 

Is there any merit in getting in touch with VOSA or a body like that to back up your case with the manufacturer?


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## poppy6 (5 October 2011)

poppy6 said:



			Good luck if you do decide to speak to CL UK the man who's in charge there is a complete  idiot who talks round in circles and says nothing helpful - I spoke to him this morning.
		
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I do believe the pleading ignorance by CL dealers is an act, they know full well what's going on here - and abroad ref the sub standard floors. The guy I spoke to earlier asked what sort of 4x4 my friend drives and was she sure it's legal instead of answering the questions I wanted answers to


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## clait (5 October 2011)

Come on Horse and Hound, its about time you took up this story, or will you only want to know  when a horse is killed?


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## miscat (5 October 2011)

gillallen said:



			numbers so far 
SY 907 DE 1053  TYPE 2003 
SY 910 DE 1028  TYPE 2003 
           DE 1804  TYPE 2003 
SY 920 DE 1517  TYPE 2003
SY 907 DE 1053  TYPE 1003XL
		
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It was a great idea to collect data on the trailers but we don't know what the serial numbers mean. I would say what we need is manufacture date for trailers that are shown to have a problem. If we can say that there are trailers that have a problem that were made say 1 year apart then chances are it is not a small number of trailers and this info is a further argument for anothe body pursuing it.


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## miscat (5 October 2011)

Orchardbeck said:



			If anyone, god forbid, had a nasty episode with one of these trailers giving way on the motorway, then it becomes a rather different story, and one of public interest - if it were a wagon, drivers and operators can get in to serious trouble with the law for driving a defective vehicle, especially if it is the cause of an incident. Cheval Liberte seem to be putting horse owners in a very difficult position here. 

Is there any merit in getting in touch with VOSA or a body like that to back up your case with the manufacturer?
		
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Maybe. There are lots of possibilities and lots of us. Pursue what you think my help. I've made clear to the French that bad publicity will continue, in English mind.


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## clait (5 October 2011)

I think there might be two problems with these trailers, mine was not rotten the floor was made of composite wood  not ply wood-am i right?


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## miscat (5 October 2011)

clait said:



			I think there might be two problems with these trailers, mine was not rotten the floor was made of composite wood  not ply wood-am i right?
		
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For comparison ours was definately a plywood floor but on the underside is a thinn fibre glass layer. You can tell it's fibre glass because you can see the long fibres criss crossing in a random matter. But the main impression is that is is plywood. Is yours different to this.

I notice that CL are still selling wooden floors....

http://www.cheval-liberte.co.uk/products_trailers_1000_series.htm

Look down to the details, under floor.


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## clait (5 October 2011)

my floor was not ply wood but the stuff you would put on a shed roof, i had no way of telling this till she went through the floor as it is sealed with fiberglass and rubber on top.


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## ElvisandTilly (5 October 2011)

All of you ought to drive your trailers to CL UK and park up and protest until something is done. Inviting the press, tv and Horse magazines to come too, getting as much publicity as you can. There must be many more CL trailers out there that the owners don't read H&H or come onto the forum that have a dodgy wooden floor. A convoy of CL trailers down the motorway!


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## OldNag (5 October 2011)

Been following this with interest - it's quite shocking and I hope you all get the company to take it seriously, very soon.

Anyone had any joy with Trading Standards yet?... my experience has also been good with them.  If everyone reports to their local one and let them know they are aware of many other owners with similiar problems ... I think what happens in cases like these is that one TS Office (probably the one looking after the area where the company is based) takes the lead and coordinates the action.


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## LaurenM (5 October 2011)

I just want to stress the importance of checking floors in every box. I know of one which was strengthened and then sold on - new owners horse went through the floor within months of it being strengthened


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## wonkey_donkey (5 October 2011)

Mine is back from Anglian Trailers and they have said my floor is 100% so they won't be replacing it or doing anything else. In fact I had it fully serviced while it was there (2 hour drive for me) and it needed loads of parts so ended up costing me £410 !!
They have written on the invoice that the floor has been checked and is safe so that's it for me  :-(
I would have been happy to pay for an ali floor at cost price for my own peace of mind but they wouldn't agree to that either.
My floor better be safe cos if one of my horses fall's throught the floor I will sue the arse off them  :-(
Not happy  ;-(


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## shellonabeach (6 October 2011)

CL main dealer website has a warning regarding trailers purchased from March 2007 to March 2008 and advises people to have the floor checked by a CL stockist.


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## wytsend (6 October 2011)

The industry standard for plywood floors for most manufacturers was 18mm thick.. well able to stand the weight of a horse.

The lightweight trailiers such as CL & Requisite were fitted with 12mm.....!!!!!
No wonder they didn't have the strength.

Also as somebody else mentioned, the steel framing was reduced to save weight.

In my opinion all trailer should be fitted with ali floors either as replacements or standard (which they mostly are now)

It is possible to check floors underneath with the use of a knife  to see if any of the wood has softened at the edges.... this is where most problems occur.


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## Passtheshampoo (6 October 2011)

Ok guys

Going to try to add photo of my trailer floor. This is a 1003XL Manufactured Sept 07.




 The floor gave way at the back left hand edge. It looked at the time as though the floor couldn't hold the weight of my RID and had slipped off the back frame work as it dipped under horse's hoof.  The floor had seemed ok before we set out, it's right where I stand to remove, load and replace breech bar so I should have felt it going before we set off and again when we unloaded at the show and reloaded to come home.


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## shellonabeach (6 October 2011)

wytsend said:



			The industry standard for plywood floors for most manufacturers was 18mm thick.. well able to stand the weight of a horse.

The lightweight trailiers such as CL & Requisite were fitted with 12mm.....!!!!!
No wonder they didn't have the strength.

Also as somebody else mentioned, the steel framing was reduced to save weight.

In my opinion all trailer should be fitted with ali floors either as replacements or standard (which they mostly are now)

It is possible to check floors underneath with the use of a knife  to see if any of the wood has softened at the edges.... this is where most problems occur.
		
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Problem is checking the wood is not possible without removing the rubber top sealed to it as it has rubber sealed ontop and fibreglass underneath!


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## Passtheshampoo (6 October 2011)

Sorry I meant to add have measured my damaged plywood floor and it's 18mm thick. I personally don't think my floor was rotten with damp I just think it wasn't the right stuff for the job. You can see on my photos where the red line goes around the edge of the floor where it sat on the framework. In my mind I believe the floor sagged due to being unable to withstand weight of a horses hoof and didn't have the intergrity or support to hold it up onto the back frame.


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## JasperJoe (6 October 2011)

I bought my 2003XL trailer in 2007. It's been used a LOT since, and has always towed brilliantly.  

However, I've had problems with CL UK since the day I bought it...  The idiots that work in HQ in Wales are the most obtuse people I've had the misfortune to deal with ever, so I'm not surprised that noone's had a good answer from them!

I am surprised that WonkeyDonkey didn't get a new floor though - when I called Anglian Trailers when I first heard of problems I was told that CL were replacing all floors whether they had problems or not....

If there's anything I can do to help the "cause" just yell!


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## clait (6 October 2011)

So Cheval have been using wood that isnt fit for a horse trailer for years.
Maybe another horse mag will run a proper story after horse and hounds could only manage weak few lines?


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## miscat (6 October 2011)

FPErin said:



			Sorry I meant to add have measured my damaged plywood floor and it's 18mm thick. I personally don't think my floor was rotten with damp I just think it wasn't the right stuff for the job. You can see on my photos where the red line goes around the edge of the floor where it sat on the framework. In my mind I believe the floor sagged due to being unable to withstand weight of a horses hoof and didn't have the intergrity or support to hold it up onto the back frame. 













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But your floor has delaminated, which means the glue has stopped working, probably because of water when it wasn't meant for wet conditions. It looks the same as mine. Indoor plywood stays strong so long as it's dry but the glue fails when it gets wet.


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## gillallen (7 October 2011)

I have been confirmed as having a DEFECTIVE FLOOR one more trip and it might have been my ponies last . We paid in full straight away in good faith thinking I was buying a safe CL trailer . OMG was I wrong . And what is worse is CL would like us all to carry on driving around in them . ROBINSONS recalled the FRENCH recalled so why didnt CL uk...And now they think its fair to put another plywood floor free of charge . I would trust a sheet of Anrex toilet paper more than that . We have won our fight to get it noiced now Horse and Hound you done Mr Awell views now do mine . You have my number . Trying to find out if CL will give me for my trailer you say they hold there price well give me one . Its 3yrs old one carefull lady owner lightly used .


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## clait (8 October 2011)

Yes, come on Horse and Hound do this story, you are welcome to come and see my CB fetlock.
Was doing working hunter but cant show my horse now.
THANKS CHEVAL!


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## wonkey_donkey (8 October 2011)

JasperJoe said:



			I bought my 2003XL trailer in 2007. It's been used a LOT since, and has always towed brilliantly.  

However, I've had problems with CL UK since the day I bought it...  The idiots that work in HQ in Wales are the most obtuse people I've had the misfortune to deal with ever, so I'm not surprised that noone's had a good answer from them!

I am surprised that WonkeyDonkey didn't get a new floor though - when I called Anglian Trailers when I first heard of problems I was told that CL were replacing all floors whether they had problems or not....

If there's anything I can do to help the "cause" just yell!
		
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The first guy I spoke to at Anglian Trailers told me that too when I initially rang weeks ago but Anglian have now back-peddled and said they will only be replacing dangerous looking floors and then only with like -for-like wood.
I wanted to speak to the manager when I brought my trailer in by appointment (and he knew I wanted to speak to him) but surprise, surprised he was out of the office when I turned up!
Totally wiping their hands I'm afraid  :-(


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## Passtheshampoo (8 October 2011)

gillallen said:



			I have been confirmed as having a DEFECTIVE FLOOR one more trip and it might have been my ponies last . We paid in full straight away in good faith thinking I was buying a safe CL trailer . OMG was I wrong . And what is worse is CL would like us all to carry on driving around in them . ROBINSONS recalled the FRENCH recalled so why didnt CL uk...And now they think its fair to put another plywood floor free of charge . I would trust a sheet of Anrex toilet paper more than that . We have won our fight to get it noiced now Horse and Hound you done Mr Awell views now do mine . You have my number . Trying to find out if CL will give me for my trailer you say they hold there price well give me one . Its 3yrs old one carefull lady owner lightly used .
		
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So CL admitted in H&H last week that there was a small number of defective trailer floors out there but didn't say what they were doing to get those trailers back in to have new floors. They haven't contacted me or any of the other people who have posted on this thread so what action are they taking to prevent another accident??
Come on H&H let's have our side of the story printed.  The facts are plain for all to see. CL have eventually acknowledged there is a safety issue after media involvement  but haven't contacted those trailer owners concerned. Surely there must be a reason why. Is it really a small number of trailers involved or all CL trailers with plywood floors? CL have taken well earned money off customers to provide safe horse transport. They need to put right this horrible situation at their expense NOW.


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## clait (8 October 2011)

I do think its all cheval trailers with wood floors-dont know how they are getting away with not recalling these trailers, what is the point of trading standards?
Has anybody had feedback from them?


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## Cuffey (8 October 2011)

Can enough of you get your heads together and write to Watchdog?
Particularly the lady who can no longer show her horse

Even if H&H pick up your story it may still not reach the Happy Hackers/Endurance /Showing people etc


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## gillallen (8 October 2011)

Cheval Uk are refusing to answer emails so googled Watchdog BBC and have left them a description of our fight . Please all of you do the same . Bigger guns are needed


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## gillallen (9 October 2011)

Cuffey said:



			Can enough of you get your heads together and write to Watchdog?
Particularly the lady who can no longer show her horse

Even if H&H pick up your story it may still not reach the Happy Hackers/Endurance /Showing people etc
		
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Done an email to Watchdog last night .. Doing email to H and H tonight to put our side across as they have done CHEVAL UK version . I had to hire trailer to take my daughter to dressage yesterday as my floor is condemed . Told as many people as i could about CHEVAL hpoe they go away and tell a few more . Just watching at a show today as car'nt afford to hire again today , but will be telling our story  again POWER TO THE PEOPLE .. Gill


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## clait (9 October 2011)

I tell everyone about cheval, the only thing they care about is money so lets hope this will hit them in the wallet as people will think twice before buying one.
If they covered up about the floors what else are they not telling us ? thats what i would be thinking if i was planning on getting one or all ready had one.


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## Passtheshampoo (9 October 2011)

gillallen said:



			Cheval Uk are refusing to answer emails so googled Watchdog BBC and have left them a description of our fight . Please all of you do the same . Bigger guns are needed
		
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Just finished sending my story to WATCHDOG. It only took 5 mins so come on guys get your own stories in to them.


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## wonkey_donkey (10 October 2011)

I got a phone call out of the blue from Anglian Trailers this Saturday saying to bring my CL into them today (Monday) and it will be re-fitted with a new wooden floor free of charge or a new ali floor at cost price.

Suffice to say I took it straight in first thing this morning and I'm paying the money to have the ali floor which will finally give me piece of mind.

I'm happy now


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## clait (10 October 2011)

i wonder why they had a change of heart?


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## wonkey_donkey (10 October 2011)

Apparantly CL have sent a team from France to replace all the floors.


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## gillallen (11 October 2011)

wonkey_donkey said:



			I got a phone call out of the blue from Anglian Trailers this Saturday saying to bring my CL into them today (Monday) and it will be re-fitted with a new wooden floor free of charge or a new ali floor at cost price.

Suffice to say I took it straight in first thing this morning and I'm paying the money to have the ali floor which will finally give me piece of mind.

I'm happy now  

Click to expand...

So pleased things getting sorted


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## gillallen (11 October 2011)

wonkey_donkey said:



			Apparantly CL have sent a team from France to replace all the floors.
		
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We sent emails to France hopefully we will soon all be on the road again


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## Passtheshampoo (11 October 2011)

wonkey_donkey said:



			Apparantly CL have sent a team from France to replace all the floors.
		
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But whose floors are they replacing? Just the people who have made a complaint or everyone who has a CL trailer with a plywood floor? What about the people like me who paid out for a new floor themselves whilst CL were keeping schtum about the prob? They still haven't contacted me to let me know they'll replace my floor FOC or refund monies paid.


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## shellonabeach (11 October 2011)

FPErin said:



			But whose floors are they replacing? Just the people who have made a complaint or everyone who has a CL trailer with a plywood floor? What about the people like me who paid out for a new floor themselves whilst CL were keeping schtum about the prob? They still haven't contacted me to let me know they'll replace my floor FOC or refund monies paid.
		
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I have had a bit of a chat today to various people and am left feeling very deflated.

Whose trailers are they replacing, depends who you talk to!  Wales say if the floor is dangerous they will replace with plywood or you can upgrade to aluminium at cost price, if not you have to pay full price.  A dealership I spoke to was under the impression that anyone could upgrade their plywood to aluminium for cost price but now seems unsure.

Wales also claim that they have met with Trading Standards last week who are happy they are doing all they should be!  

I have a CL with a plywood floor, I have tried complaining and explaining the situation that my trailer was manufactured in the "danger period" but CL will only help if the floor is defective as they claim to not know the serial numbers of those affected.  

I offered to pay cost price to have the floor upgraded (£350) to be told unless there is a problem I will have to pay full price (£600+) and they even had the cheek to suggest that it might be cheaper to trade mine in and buy a new one!!

As the nearest dealer to me is over 2hrs away I am having to pay to take mine for an independant inspection locally next weekend, at least this way it will get a through and fair appraisal.

FP Erin I don't see how they can refuse to refund the cost of your new floor, it was quite clearly defective!


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## Passtheshampoo (11 October 2011)

Since my last post earlier this afternoon I decided to look on CL UKs website. They now have a note to all March 2007 - March 2008 trailer owners asking them to get their floors checked (perhaps not such a small number affected after all). Mine is a Sept 07 so bang in middle of danger period and I bought it at a point where CL couldn't keep up with demand and there was a waiting list for them. Having not got very far with my local Dealer I emailed CL UK about an hour or so ago outlining prob with my floor going through with horse onboard in Aug 2010 and the longstanding defective braking system. Arwel replied straight back to me via email saying he's looking into my probs and will get back to me. 

I reported CL to Trading Standards a few weeks ago as couldn't believe they would/should keep trailer owners in the dark, knowing there could potentially be another accident/s and of course realising that they were well aware of the issue before my horse went through our trailer floor. I'm sure Trading Standards know what they are doing with regard to consumer/product  Law etc and if they've put pressure on CL along with trailer owners then we are a step nearer to getting this mess resolved. My main concern when I originally posted the thread was for those  trailer owners happily transporting animals without knowing the potential problems with these floors.  Hopefully now the word is out and accidents can be prevented. I'm still very worried for those people who have no idea there is a problem, are not H&H forum users/readers or don't look at the CL website, as at the mo has there been any other publicity warning people?

Shellonabeach I would def suggest the rubber matting is lifted for the inspection of your floor  rather than just having a "jump test". My floor seemed fine as we set off to the show, as we unloaded and loaded back up again to come home. Let us know how you get on.


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## scarymare (11 October 2011)

FPErin said:



			Shellonabeach I would def suggest the rubber matting is lifted for the inspection of your floor  rather than just having a "jump test". My floor seemed fine as we set off to the show, as we unloaded and loaded back up again to come home. Let us know how you get on.
		
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Second this.  I'm disgusted by this post - its criminal the way they are behaving and really negligent.  All the jump test will do is prove its OK for 70kg at that time.


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## gillallen (20 October 2011)

Been today to pick up my CL trailer with its new Alli floor 6 trailers standing there 4 cl and 2 robinsons . 2 had new plywood and rest where alli . On inspection found I found I could no longer front unload pony from offside as partition is now fixed at front so was told now need to undo back door let down back bars and front and lay partition on side wall to unload at front . To be fair salesman not a horseman , so exsplained thats not how you do it . Front holder on floor had been put in wrong " French fitters done this " It must be of set to one side to allow you to lft and move to side check this . Pile of floors sitting there danger under that rubber matting . Will try and put pics on . Let me know how you are all getting on or look on fb Cheval Liberte trailer floors.


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## gillallen (20 October 2011)

clait said:



			I tell everyone about cheval, the only thing they care about is money so lets hope this will hit them in the wallet as people will think twice before buying one.
If they covered up about the floors what else are they not telling us ? thats what i would be thinking if i was planning on getting one or all ready had one.
		
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have put new post on today how are you getting on


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## gillallen (20 October 2011)

FPErin said:



			Just finished sending my story to WATCHDOG. It only took 5 mins so come on guys get your own stories in to them.
		
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have put new post on how you getting on


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## 3Beasties (20 October 2011)

A friends horse has recently gone through the floor of her 4 year old CL, they were told by CL that they had problems with a lot of them recently. Very worrying!!


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## gillallen (20 October 2011)

3Beasties said:



			A friends horse has recently gone through the floor of her 4 year old CL, they were told by CL that they had problems with a lot of them recently. Very worrying!!
		
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if only i could load the pic of my floor it is frightening . your friend horse is not the only one to go through . There has been a real cover up going on


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## gillallen (20 October 2011)

wonkey_donkey said:



			Going to collect mine complete with new ali floor tomorrow from the same place as you  gillallen.  
Thanks for the tip. Will give mine a good check over before taking it home!
		
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which one is yours a blue one has same problem .


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## miscat (20 October 2011)

I saw your pic (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2425729039333&set=p.2425729039333&type=1&theater) Gill on facebook "cheval liberte trailer floor". It looks just the same as mine. What does the edge of the ali one look like? Is there a gap at the bottom of the wall for water to get away? I´m thinking of the damp wall bottoms.


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## gillallen (20 October 2011)

miscat said:



			I saw your pic (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2425729039333&set=p.2425729039333&type=1&theater) Gill on facebook "cheval liberte trailer floor". It looks just the same as mine. What does the edge of the ali one look like? Is there a gap at the bottom of the wall for water to get away? I´m thinking of the damp wall bottoms.
		
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They have put a rubber solution around edges . we have noticed a damp bit under boor where white paint has come off .


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## gillallen (21 October 2011)

We went and had lunch down the road whilst they fixed ours . Will be sending Mr Arwell recipt for diesel for 2 70mile trips dinner and hire of trailer since 16th july . Will have to forget 2 days loss of earnings . Spoke to him yesterday when we found out about partition told him he needed to sort it , took unbrance at that and told me I was wrong to say that to him  . If I had done something wrong and I was at fault and put lives in DANGER I would certainly SORT IT . What makes me cross is not once has any one said SORRY FOR YOUR INCONVENIENCE I HAVE CAUSED YOU . We have fort this fight all of us by internet finding other CL owners , because we where told you are a one of . Small help from H H magazine on CL side not a report from owners they spoke to . At least ROBINSONS owned up to it ..... GILL


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## Passtheshampoo (21 October 2011)

gillallen said:



			We went and had lunch down the road whilst they fixed ours . Will be sending Mr Arwell recipt for diesel for 2 70mile trips dinner and hire of trailer since 16th july . Will have to forget 2 days loss of earnings . Spoke to him yesterday when we found out about partition told him he needed to sort it , took unbrance at that and told me I was wrong to say that to him  . If I had done something wrong and I was at fault and put lives in DANGER I would certainly SORT IT . What makes me cross is not once has any one said SORRY FOR YOUR INCONVENIENCE I HAVE CAUSED YOU . We have fort this fight all of us by internet finding other CL owners , because we where told you are a one of . Small help from H H magazine on CL side not a report from owners they spoke to . At least ROBINSONS owned up to it ..... GILL
		
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Here here totally agree!

I'm still waiting to hear back from Arwel as he sent me a reply to my complaint early last week saying he'd investigate. I'll be back in touch with him next week if I haven't heard anything. 
Haven't heard anything back from Watchdog or Trading Standards as yet. I certainly won't be getting fobbed off by CL again. Has anyone taken CL to small claims court? 
I'll update once I hear back from CL to advise if I'm satisfied or unsatisfied with the outcome. We haven't taken our horse out in the trailer since the accident in Aug 10. We are still paying for insurance on it and obviously it needs moving every few weeks to keep tyres ok.


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## Princess P (21 October 2011)

which one is yours a blue one has same problem .
		
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Where did you get yours done?

Mine is a blue Robinsons one waiting to be picked up from Agrimark in Bury St Edmunds after having a new Ali floor..... am seriously panicking now!!!

I hadn't posted on here about getting a new floor yet because I wanted to wait until I see it with my own eyes before I believe it!

Really hope they havem't messed up my front unload as my boy much prefers front unload!!!


Stresssss!!!!! Sooooooo regret the day I decided to buy that trailer, should have bought a second hand ifor instead of a brand new robinsons!!!!


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## gillallen (21 October 2011)

Princess P said:



			Where did you get yours done?

Mine is a blue Robinsons one waiting to be picked up from Agrimark in Bury St Edmunds after having a new Ali floor..... am seriously panicking now!!!

I hadn't posted on here about getting a new floor yet because I wanted to wait until I see it with my own eyes before I believe it!

Really hope they havem't messed up my front unload as my boy much prefers front unload!!!


Stresssss!!!!! Sooooooo regret the day I decided to buy that trailer, should have bought a second hand ifor instead of a brand new robinsons!!!!
		
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...I sold a pefecly sound old rice to buy a CL wish i hadnt . We brought our from Anglia Trailers so they done work there 
gill


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## gillallen (21 October 2011)

wonkey_donkey said:



			No mine is the dark grey mare & foal trailer (no partitions).
		
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how is floor . gill


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## Princess P (21 October 2011)

OMG I want to cry!

If anyone is having a new floor fitted by cheval please check everything thoroughly before you drive home with it!

Husband collected trailer from anglia trailers today, after having new floor fitted by cheval, at a cost of 420 to us.

They have put the holes in the floor for the partition in the wrong place and now we can't move the partition because is is jammed in, my husband has hurt his back trying to move it. When the breast bars are in position they are not at right angles to the partition and walls anymore like they should be and were.

There is also no safety bar and pin to  secure the partition down.

They are going to need to drill a further hole to position the partition in the correct place, meaning my brand new aluminium floor I have payed lots of money floor is full of unnecessary holes and therefore compromised already!

Nobody wants to help us, Robinsons sold us the trailer but didn't make it so they don't want to know, Anglia trailers didn't sell it to us or make it so it's not their responsibility, and cheval didn't sell it to us so they don't want to know either!

Grrrr!

Will be taking photos this weekend and then ringing robinsons first thing monday, and then trading standards if I don't get any joy.


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## gillallen (22 October 2011)

wonkey_donkey said:



			Picked it up today and it looked good thanks. I opened and shut both the rear and front ramps to check all was well.

Of course I could have done without the £420 bill for a new ali floor and the £100 in diesel for dropping off and collecting my trailer for inspection / work to be done etc. 
However, I'm pleased it is now all sorted and think I had good after care from Anglian Trailers. 
My original floor was still in good condition with no signs of wear (unlike other people's) so they could have told me to get lost and I would have had to pay full price for a new wooden or ali floor.
At the end of the day the trailer is now safe for my horses and it didn't break the bank to get peace of mind so I am happy.

Wouldn't buy another CL though obviously !!!
		
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So glad to hear all ok our floor was the bottom one on pile .. We are of out on sunday to give our a trial run ..Gill


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## gillallen (22 October 2011)

On inspection of trailer this morning front fixing plate has been put 5ml further back than original hence saggy curtain . They must have taken a hammer and bent front of partition to fit . Have measured and put spirit leval on and yes shorter on bottom than top . Tried to phone CHEVAL UK Mr AR not reply . Have started a face book group Cheval Liberte "Dangerous Floors " Group   Need people to report on there I am going to put link to this group on there as well . Had enough I am going to seek legal advise now . We need to get together on this we to be fairly treated and not badly as we have . A cover up has gone on from Cheval Uk . Gill


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## gillallen (22 October 2011)

Does any one have email address of the nice young man who phone us about article in h and h . Think he needs an up date and another article on a owners views


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## Passtheshampoo (23 October 2011)

Princess P said:



			OMG I want to cry!

If anyone is having a new floor fitted by cheval please check everything thoroughly before you drive home with it!

Husband collected trailer from anglia trailers today, after having new floor fitted by cheval, at a cost of 420 to us.

They have put the holes in the floor for the partition in the wrong place and now we can't move the partition because is is jammed in, my husband has hurt his back trying to move it. When the breast bars are in position they are not at right angles to the partition and walls anymore like they should be and were.

There is also no safety bar and pin to  secure the partition down.

They are going to need to drill a further hole to position the partition in the correct place, meaning my brand new aluminium floor I have payed lots of money floor is full of unnecessary holes and therefore compromised already!

Nobody wants to help us, Robinsons sold us the trailer but didn't make it so they don't want to know, Anglia trailers didn't sell it to us or make it so it's not their responsibility, and cheval didn't sell it to us so they don't want to know either!

Grrrr!

Will be taking photos this weekend and then ringing robinsons first thing monday, and then trading standards if I don't get any joy.
		
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If Robinsons sold you the trailer then you can take up the Sale of Goods Act with them. Please do contact Consumer Direct for further info. They will refer your complaint onto Trading Standards. TS aren't going to realise there's such a problem if only a couple of unsatisfied customers moan. If everyone who has had a problem with CL coontact them it is less likely that CL will brush it off as a one off complaint.


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## gillallen (23 October 2011)

Hi you know you said your husband had done back with partition , have done mine as well now . Where is his ??? . Keep in touch phoning MR AR**** on monday. We are also seeking legal advise now for negligance .


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## gillallen (24 October 2011)

We have just spoken to Mr Cheval Uk he has been told about incompetant french fitters that we now have even bigger problem with trailer now with more holes in than my sieve . So he is aware if he trys to say he is un aware . Need email adress of young man from h and h need to talk to him again


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## Princess P (24 October 2011)

Got my handy daddy to take a proper look at trailer in daylight this weekend.

We also have a saggy curtain due to the holes for the partition being too close together. Our partition has been bent to make it fit in the holes.

The holes in the floor & therefore partition are further back than they were, meaning it is pushing on the back ramp when it is closed and has already dented the rubber.

The best bit is, I phoned Robinsons this morning to report the problems and say I'm not accepting the floor, and I was told a way around the problem of not being able to move the partition: if I take the back of the partition out of the hole first and move it to the right, I will then be able to move the front over to the left. Great, I said, if the trailer is empty but what about when my horse is on the right hand side of the trailer?!!! He told me to move the horse forward a bit. Anyone who has been in the trailer with a horse will realise how stupid this is!!! These trailers are supposed to take up to 17h, this is getting ridiculous!

All I want is a safe trailer with a partition one person can move on their own as before.

Was told that every other trailer is fine and it's just me moaning, but clearly there is at least one other person unhappy with the cheval bodge job!!!

As far as I can see, the only way to solve this is to drill more holes in the floor and put the partition in the right place, but then I'll have a floor with loads of extra holes which is obviously weaker and more susceptable to rust.

Just don't know what to do now :-(


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## gillallen (24 October 2011)

same problem as us the front plate is 5ml further back . The French fitters have hammered the front bar back to fit . We phoned and email Cheval uk this morning so they are aware if they move it forward we will have 10 holes in our new ali floor . Keep fighting and keep in touch . I have emailed horse and hound today think an update story on saga of botch and cover ups needs to be done . NOT FINISHED WITH CHEVAL LIBERTE YET !!!! Gill


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## BeckyD (24 October 2011)

I'm going to pick mine up from Agrimark in Bury St Edmunds at the weekend (couldn't go this weekend as was away).  My floor wasn't in too bad a state (just damp along the back) but they replaced it anyway, and I paid the extra for an aluminium one.  I have taken the partition out of mine, so there is no way of me knowing when I go to pick it up, whether the partition will fit.  Although, mine is a 2003XL (big red jobby) in which the partition only affixes to the floor in one place.  If it's in the wrong place though, the link from there to the ceiling will be askew.  Hmmm.  Can't believe what a mess CL have made of all of this, ridiculous.

Oh, and Arwel stopped replying to my emails, after initially being very helpful and saying he would find me somewhere good for me to take my trailer to, he then went silent and wouldn't tell me where I needed to take it.  Thankfully I read on here about others going to Agrimark, so I took it there (at a huge diesel cost and half a day of annual leave from work!).

That 3.5t lorry I've been hankering after seems all the more attractive...


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## Princess P (24 October 2011)

This really is ridiculous!

Agrimark were saying something about the cheval fitters bringing french floors with them, maybe the front unload is on the other side on the french models or something?

Robinsons have tried to fob me off by saying that this is the new design, but it clearly isn't as it doesn't work!

This is all a complete nightmare!

Robinsons told me that all the others that had been done fine and it's just me moaning, it would be interesting to find out who these others are and if they are really happy!


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## JasperJoe (25 October 2011)

Thank goodness I didn't take mine to Agrimark..!  Sounds like you've all had a nightmare!  It was obviously fate that the gearbox went in my towcar ;-)

Hopefully next time the fitters come, they'll have sorted out the problems with fitting the floor

BeckyD - I'd be really interested to hear how they  managed with yours as mine is a 2003XL too..


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## BeckyD (25 October 2011)

JasperJoe said:



			Thank goodness I didn't take mine to Agrimark..!  Sounds like you've all had a nightmare!  It was obviously fate that the gearbox went in my towcar ;-)

Hopefully next time the fitters come, they'll have sorted out the problems with fitting the floor

BeckyD - I'd be really interested to hear how they  managed with yours as mine is a 2003XL too..
		
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I'll just add that Agrimark have been fab through all this as far as I have seen.  It's the French/Polish fitters that are at fault - and to be fair, they've only fitted what they've given, so I'd say it's CL's fault for giving them the wrong floors to fit.  

I'm trying every trick in the book  to persuade my OH to come with me to collect the trailer, so he can help me lift in the partition when we get back and then I can check out whether it fits correctly or not.  I'll post an update in here after I've tried it.  Although I don't use the partition, when I come to sell the trailer I'm guessing that others WILL want to use the partition, so I need to get this sorted now really.


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## JasperJoe (25 October 2011)

I'm not blaming Agrimark at all - like you, all of my dealings with them have been brilliant.. All of my anger is entirely directed towards the idiots in Wales. They're spectacularly inept, and during my entire phone call with Arwel the other day, he never once voluntarily apologised. Even when I pushed him for one it  wasn't a proper apology. Bloody idiots.


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## clait (25 October 2011)

Agrimark are just as much to blame as wales, they are  in on the cover up.
If they know the new  floors dont fit then why are they letting them carry on?


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## DragonSlayer (25 October 2011)

I would now be getting in touch with your local MP if people are still having problems....and also the press.....

Feel for you all....


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## Princess P (25 October 2011)

Thank goodness I didn't take mine to Agrimark..!
		
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To be fair, all this mess has nothing to do with Agrimark, the french / polish fitters were just using their premises (and some of their equipment as some of the stuff they brought with them didn't work!).

As far as I'm aware Agrimark didn't realise the partition problem until Gillallen went to get her trailer, by which time the cheval van had gone.

Also, I have been told that the french / polish fitters were doing one particular trailer with a new wooden floor but didn't have one long enough so tried to patch up a 1 foot gap at the back with wood from OLD floors that had been taken out!!!! In this case Agrimark stepped in and told them no!

I would have been much more happy for agrimark to fir the floor for me rather than french / polish! 


I am now pressing for another new floor, because to fix ours it will need new holes drilling in it to position the partition correctly, and I wanted a new floor, not a sieve! My trailer is supposed to have a payload of something like 1300kg, the floor needs to be 100% sound to support this!

And breathe..........


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## JasperJoe (25 October 2011)

Sorry - just to be clear I'll edit my message, but I didn't mean that I was glad I didn't take my trailer to Agrimark because they're a bad company or anything - I meant I was glad that I chose to postpone the work full stop..  Hopefully they'll do a better job with the next batch. Although that doesn't help anyone who's had a bodge job already.

Ok - for some reason I can't edit the earlier post, but hopefully the above makes it clear!


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## gillallen (25 October 2011)

Princess P said:



			To be fair, all this mess has nothing to do with Agrimark, the french / polish fitters were just using their premises (and some of their equipment as some of the stuff they brought with them didn't work!).

As far as I'm aware Agrimark didn't realise the partition problem until Gillallen went to get her trailer, by which time the cheval van had gone.

Also, I have been told that the french / polish fitters were doing one particular trailer with a new wooden floor but didn't have one long enough so tried to patch up a 1 foot gap at the back with wood from OLD floors that had been taken out!!!! In this case Agrimark stepped in and told them no!

I would have been much more happy for agrimark to fir the floor for me rather than french / polish! 


I am now pressing for another new floor, because to fix ours it will need new holes drilling in it to position the partition correctly, and I wanted a new floor, not a sieve! My trailer is supposed to have a payload of something like 1300kg, the floor needs to be 100% sound to support this!

And breathe..........
		
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We are on the phone twice a day at the moment to get this sorted with Wales also emailing france . New floors are needed to replace botch job done by French - polish fitters , We have also been told about taking wood of old floor because other one was to short . Chris Winchester is backing us all the way now waiting to hear from him need to ask about rights on new floor surely this is a new chapter starting with a new floor that is only just over a week old now with 7 holes at the front of it through bad fitting . Gill


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## clait (26 October 2011)

my trailer went to Agrimark for a new floor fitted by french/polish.
the trailer was a front unload and the new floor they fitted was fine so they have  fitted them before and know how to do it!


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## gillallen (26 October 2011)

They made the dam things front and rear unload so they know how to fit them . They thought we where stupid and once we have gone back across the channel they carnt get us . Ok chapter 2 we have a bent partition which will wear matting out ( not my fault ) .Floor that new partition wont fit in ( not my fault ) = New floor and new partition CHEVAL UK FAULT . But they dont think this is right . Mr horse and hound have emailed you can you please phone . Feel a day off work coming next week to see a solicitor .


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## Princess P (27 October 2011)

Feel a day off work coming next week to see a solicitor
		
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Gillallen pls let me know how you get on with that. Feel v fed up now, Robinsons are helpful one day and not the next!


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## Passtheshampoo (27 October 2011)

And still no recall on UK trailers (apart from Robinsons). Want to know why the French had a recall ages ago but same didn't happen here. I'm still waiting to hear backfrom Mr CL UK last I heard was over 2 weeks ago. 

To all those with a badly fitted new ali floor then get in touch with Consumer Direct as it sounds like what they fitted (and charged you for) isn't of satisfactory standard and you need to reject it. This is just a fiasco. Come on H&H why are you not reporting on our plight?


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## gillallen (27 October 2011)

Emailed H and H again last night will do the same again to night . Waiting to hear from solicitor about our plight . Been told today cheval france will make a desision on wednesday about botched alli floors . Gill


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## Passtheshampoo (27 October 2011)

gillallen said:



			Emailed H and H again last night will do the same again to night . Waiting to hear from solicitor about our plight . Been told today cheval france will make a desision on wednesday about botched alli floors . Gill
		
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Will keep fingers crossed for you Gill.


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## Princess P (28 October 2011)

Been told today cheval france will make a desision on wednesday about botched alli floors . Gill
		
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Great customer service! It's not like we're stuck at home because our trailers aren't safe to use or anything! Well and truly peed off about all this now!


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## gillallen (31 October 2011)

Returned from a loverly day out SJ with my daughter with trailer with new ali floor bent partition done by CL french polish fitters . First time out with 2 on board cleaned it out to find that RUBBER MATTING has come away from floor which is no wonder because because floor is so flexable and creaking as you walk on it . When will this saga end . Not going out in it again untill I get it checked by an independant as i dont trust what CL say anymore . On a good note saw a CL at show with plywood floor told him and showed him pics , he was not aware of the problems so will be making calls and getting his checked , told him not to settle for jump test look under matting . Mr CHEVAL UK will be getting a call today ..... Have also had another lady get in contact with me from my Face book group same problems same fight . Gill


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## BeckyD (31 October 2011)

I collected my 2003XL with replacement aluminium floor on Saturday.  I haven't been able to test the partition in it, but visually it looks like it will fit.  The new CL trailers all seem to have the same style partition as I have, so hopefully my new floor and partition will match.  My only concern about the aluminium, is how bouncy it is at the front - it isn't resting on anything between the breast bars and the front of the trailer, so as you walk across it, the aluminium planks bounce and roll.  I'm not quite sure what horses will make of that   The back doesn't have the same problem as it has several struts that it sits on.

Has anyone else got the same problem?  Should I be worried?


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## poppy6 (31 October 2011)

I spoke to another trailer dealer this morning (not Cheval ) asked if an aluminium floor should be bouncy the guy laughed and said NO it should feel solid under foot.


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## BeckyD (31 October 2011)

poppy6 said:



			I spoke to another trailer dealer this morning (not Cheval ) asked if an aluminium floor should be bouncy the guy laughed and said NO it should feel solid under foot.
		
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Uh-oh.  Then we definitely have a problem.


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## Eagle (31 October 2011)

Hi Guys,
As a CL box owner I have been following this thread with interest. I have also had a poor response from CL with respect to my concerns that I have raised with them. So I have now spoken directly to the Trading Standards Officer in Wales who is dealing with CL. Following our discussion they have asked me to send them a copy of all my correspondence with CL. In addition they were very interested to hear about this thread and asked me to send them the link to it. I hope this will help Trading Standards to get CL to do the right thing.


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## poppy6 (31 October 2011)

I was told on good authority that CL in Wales have already had a visit from trading standards and they didn't do anything. It will be interesting to see if they change their minds and help us.


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## clait (31 October 2011)

Yep- they had a visit in 2010 when it happened to me, again they did nothing, maybe trading standards man and Arwel are buddies, i cant see how else he is getting away with it!


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## Eagle (31 October 2011)

Hi Guys,
I believe that any box that was made near or between these dates should be recalled and a new floor fitted for safety. We all know how near impossible it is to inspect the floor correctly and how costly it is to do. To help TS we need to get owners to ask CL to replace the floor.When they refuse contact TS (Have CL address to hand).Ask for a TS officer to contact you (especially if you call Consumer Direct).When the officers calls you tell them that this is a know problem and that a TS Officer in Wales is dealing with this and ask them to pass your complaint on. The more complaints the Welsh office gets the easier it is for them to act and issue a Recall Notice to CL. For those with "replaced" floor problems again get a TS officer to contact you and get them to pass your complaint to the Welsh officer.***H&H IF YOU ARE READING THIS PLEASE G.O.B***


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## shellonabeach (31 October 2011)

Eagle

PM me if you prefer but it appears you are sitting where I was a couple of weeks ago with a trailer made in the danger period where you have no idea whether the floor is sound or not and no way of telling.

I argued with CL about this, that I could not use the trailer as I was concerned about the floor and that I could not sell it as it was worthless without a new floor.  He even had the cheek to suggest I trade it in for a new one!!

I had mine checked out at an independant trailer servicing place who confirmed that the rubber seal had failed and that the wood was soaked and starting to rot.  Having seen what they did the rubber just lifted up at the back and sides where the glue had come unstuck from the wet wood (CL Wales said this would damage the rubber but it didn't at all because the rubber was already unstuck!)


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## Eagle (31 October 2011)

shellonabeach

As I have pointed out to CL (as have many others ) you need to destroy the matting (incurring cost!!!) to get to the floor,and even if you do that you will not be able to tell if you have a treated floor or not.TS have agreed with me that this is not acceptable hence their request for further information from me including my own engineering knowledge.Also this type of product problem is covered by General Product Safety Regulation 2005 (my professional knowledge) which is the reg that requires people like CL to deal with known problems *before* they get to a dangerous situation.(not just to fix just when broken).Also the regulation applies to second hand goods.A good examples of this is the Car industry on voluntary recalls.
It is now a point of principle that I am fighting for hence why I have spent the time locating the officer who is dealing with this. To be fair to them they only have limited knowledge and rely on people like us to fill in some of the detail.


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## shellonabeach (31 October 2011)

Eagle said:



			shellonabeach

As I have pointed out to CL (as have many others ) you need to destroy the matting (incurring cost!!!) to get to the floor,and even if you do that you will not be able to tell if you have a treated floor or not.TS have agreed with me that this is not acceptable hence their request for further information from me including my own engineering knowledge.Also this type of product problem is covered by General Product Safety Regulation 2005 (my professional knowledge) which is the reg that requires people like CL to deal with known problems *before* they get to a dangerous situation.(not just to fix just when broken).Also the regulation applies to second hand goods.A good examples of this is the Car industry on voluntary recalls.
It is now a point of principle that I am fighting for hence why I have spent the time locating the officer who is dealing with this. To be fair to them they only have limited knowledge and rely on people like us to fill in some of the detail.
		
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Ah I'm with you and this is exactly the problem CL are refusing to do anything (bar tell you where to take your trailer for a visual inspection / jump test) unless you can prove the floor is defective.


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## Princess P (31 October 2011)

I would be really interested to see if anyone who has had their floor replaced has actually had it done to a safe and satisfactory standard!

I'm so cross about this, I specifically asked Robinsons before the floor was replaced if the Polish fitters would do it properly, and was told it would all be fine. However they messed it up and I still don't have a safe trailer to use! 3 Whole months now we have been stuck without a trailer!


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## gillallen (31 October 2011)

of to see solicitor next monday to see if we have enough for a case on the grounds of negligance . The safest part of our new floor is behind the ridge that has appeared  along the back width of the the trailer the front creacks and you can see floor move . Going to jump on a Ifor floor tomorrow to see if it moves .also going to look underneath to see if they are planks of Ali or solid piece . Arranging to get indipent opinion on saftey of trailer . The next time it will be out is Nov 5th stating bonfire . gill


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## Eagle (31 October 2011)

shellonabeach said:



			Ah I'm with you and this is exactly the problem CL are refusing to do anything (bar tell you where to take your trailer for a visual inspection / jump test) unless you can prove the floor is defective.
		
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In my professional experience (again)their so call inspection advice is totally flawed,their record keeping and quality control is flawed and their floors are flawed!!!! Their is clearly enough evidence and lack of control to show that the only sensible way to avoid serious injury/damage is a total recall and floor replacement program (done by local experts!!). They might be able to fob off an  officer with limited technical knowledge with talk of an international hit... oops sorry.... fix team armed with big hammers and wrong types of floors, but some of us are more in the know then they give us credit for! 
JTLUK the officer who I spoke too who is now armed with my advice/data after a very long phone call and is making a return trip to CL and will be giving me feedback.


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## gillallen (31 October 2011)

Have started a face book group 
Cheval Liberte "Dangerous Floors " Group 
there are more people there with floor problems 
Also uploaded video showing  the movement in new Ali floor that we paid for on my own page Gill Allen  .


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## Passtheshampoo (1 November 2011)

Eagle said:



			In my professional experience (again)their so call inspection advice is totally flawed,their record keeping and quality control is flawed and their floors are flawed!!!! Their is clearly enough evidence and lack of control to show that the only sensible way to avoid serious injury/damage is a total recall and floor replacement program (done by local experts!!). They might be able to fob off an  officer with limited technical knowledge with talk of an international hit... oops sorry.... fix team armed with big hammers and wrong types of floors, but some of us are more in the know then they give us credit for! 
JTLUK the officer who I spoke too who is now armed with my advice/data after a very long phone call and is making a return trip to CL and will be giving me feedback.
		
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Hi Eagle TS Officer I have dealt with wanted to take the matter up with CL agent in Derbyshire where I purchased trailer from so not sure if my complaint got through to Wales. PM me if you need the guys name at TS to collate with your info. 
Out of interest I was advised that they could reuse the matting when they took out my plywood floor which my horse had nearly fallen through. The thing about the CL trailers was they sold them on their light weight figures so you can imagine extra support struts being left off the design to keep weight levels down.


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## Eagle (1 November 2011)

FPErin said:



			Hi Eagle TS Officer I have dealt with wanted to take the matter up with CL agent in Derbyshire where I purchased trailer from so not sure if my complaint got through to Wales. PM me if you need the guys name at TS to collate with your info. 
Out of interest I was advised that they could reuse the matting when they took out my plywood floor which my horse had nearly fallen through. The thing about the CL trailers was they sold them on their light weight figures so you can imagine extra support struts being left off the design to keep weight levels down.
		
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Hi,
As you originally purchased the box from the dealer(and as he was still in business) the sales of goods act would of applied to your faulty floor and hence the TSO would  have approach the agent first.The regulation that I have mentioned applies to products irrespective if you have bought them direct or second hand and could of be used by your TSO if the dealer was no longer in business.Once I hear back from the Welsh TSO I may need you to forward the information to her.Many Thanks.


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## BeckyD (1 November 2011)

Right what do I need to do to escalate this?  Can anyone tell me an "idiot's guide" as to who I need to report this to?  I have given Agrimark the heads' up that the aluminium floors bounce and roll.


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## Eagle (1 November 2011)

BeckyD said:



			Right what do I need to do to escalate this?  Can anyone tell me an "idiot's guide" as to who I need to report this to?  I have given Agrimark the heads' up that the aluminium floors bounce and roll.
		
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Did you buy this box from Argrimark? If so if you are unhappy with the new floor immediately raise it with them. TS would expect you to do this as a matter of course.Ask them should the floor move in this way.See if they can they show you a box with a factory fitted ali floor that you can compare.(Has anyone out there every seen a box with a factory fitted ali floor?????Should it move???Please let us know).Once you can establish that the floor should not move then insist that they fix the problem.If they refuse to do this then you can proceed to the next stage(TSO/LEGAL).


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## BeckyD (1 November 2011)

Eagle said:



			Did you buy this box from Argrimark? If so if you are unhappy with the new floor immediately raise it with them. TS would expect you to do this as a matter of course.Ask them should the floor move in this way.See if they can they show you a box with a factory fitted ali floor that you can compare.(Has anyone out there every seen a box with a factory fitted ali floor?????Should it move???Please let us know).Once you can establish that the floor should not move then insist that they fix the problem.If they refuse to do this then you can proceed to the next stage(TSO/LEGAL).
		
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What if I didn't buy it from Agrimark? The dealer I bought it from has gone bust. Agrimark have just serviced and overseen the floor. 

My friend has an Ifor with aluminium floor and that doesn't bounce. I tried it on Saturday.


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## gillallen (1 November 2011)

Tacking trailer for an independant assessment tomorrow . First person I phoned said he didnt want to get involved . Stood in a 6yr old Ifor today what a differance no bounce . Still no reply from H and H reporter ..... Gill


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## Passtheshampoo (3 November 2011)

Has anyone heard from CL Wales? Thought they were making a decision yesterday.............


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## clait (5 November 2011)

Whats going on with TS, anybody know?


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## miscat (6 November 2011)

Just a not about plywood because it does seem to have a bad reputation.

I replaced our trailer floor with some ply wood and there is no way a horse will fall through it. It is absolutely solid because it is 21mm and of a suitable grade.

Plywood comes in different grades. If you buy interior stuff and leave it outside (or even somewhere with damp air) it will warp and delaminate. On the other hand I could show you plywood which has been outside here for 20 or 30 years and is still the same as when it was bought.

The glue needs to be water proof and optionally the wood could be treated but it is the glue that is really important. Marine ply is used or making boats.

So plywood is not all bad.


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## Eagle (6 November 2011)

Just an quick update.Had a chat with the Welsh TSO on Friday they are waiting for CL to return their call. I was told that my complaint was one of very few that have been passed on to them!!So it would seem that either no else is complaining or are not asking for their complaint to be passed on as I earlier post. Also it could be that as said before on this thread owners have simple replaced their floors themselves? If they have they would have a case to possible seek the recovery of their costs. In simple words few complaints will limit the actions that the TS can take.Maybe H&H can raise this again and ask owners to contact them hint hint.


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## Passtheshampoo (6 November 2011)

Eagle said:



			Just an quick update.Had a chat with the Welsh TSO on Friday they are waiting for CL to return their call. I was told that my complaint was one of very few that have been passed on to them!!So it would seem that either no else is complaining or are not asking for their complaint to be passed on as I earlier post. Also it could be that as said before on this thread owners have simple replaced their floors themselves? If they have they would have a case to possible seek the recovery of their costs. In simple words few complaints will limit the actions that the TS can take.Maybe H&H can raise this again and ask owners to contact them hint hint.
		
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I did replace my own floor last year after my mare went through it. Was told there was no recall and it was a one off so thought it was just bad luck at the time. I have complained to TS a few months ago when prob was highlighted in H&H re Robinsons trailers. The prob is that the TSO said he'd take it up with the local dealer who sold me the trailer not CL Wales so there are prob lots of differnt TSOs dealing with the same probs but aren't aware of other cases. I'll PM name of TSO dealing with my complaint so you can pass it on to your contact.


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## Eagle (14 November 2011)

Any news on the CL response?


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## Passtheshampoo (14 November 2011)

CL UK (Wales) have told me it's in the hands of CL France so it's a waiting game at the mo. Have already been waiting 5 weeks! 



Eagle said:



			Any news on the CL response?
		
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## BeckyD (14 November 2011)

Has anyone taken theirs back to Agrimark to have the bouncy floors fixed? Agrimark rang me last Monday to say the Polish chaps would be out on Wednesday last week putting the bouncy floors right. I haven't been able to get my trailer there yet due to work. Interested if anyone had had theirs fixed and whether the fix works?


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## Princess P (15 November 2011)

Bump.....

Has anyone had their floors done yet? I'm very anxious to see what happens with out partition, which they bent totally out of shape to fit in the holes that were in the wrong place on the floor.

Nervous and just have a bad feeling that they are going to mess it up again......


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## Illucion (23 November 2011)

Having checked my 2003 at the weekend, I found a large split with very soft wood above just where the rear hooves of the pony's stand.

The serial number is:  SY920040007DE1069069 and was purchased in June 2007.

I am in communication with both Wales and France but have yet to receive a response.

I believe that: 1. these trailers should be replaced as they are not fit for purpose
                    2. it is totally unacceptable that these trailers were not recalled with such a fundamental safety issue


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## JasperJoe (23 November 2011)

I believe that too.  But good luck convincing CL UK of it;-)

My floor got replaced with aluminium last week.  I'm still in "negotiations" about paying for it. I believe that I shouldn't have to - that all they've done by putting an aluminium floor in is restore the resale value of my trailer to what it was prior to this debacle.  But we shall see..


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## Passtheshampoo (6 December 2011)

How's everyone getting on? 
Which of you have had floors replaced recently and are now satisfied with CL's action on this matter? Are those who had new ali floors fitted which were bouncy or drilled in the incorrect places had their floors sorted? I'm still awaiting a response from France CL (via CL UK). For those who haven't read earlier posts my mare started to go through the plywood floor of our Sept 2007 trailer. We paid out for a new floor a year ago as at that time CL weren't acknowledging there was a serious prob (or any prob for that matter). I've been waiting now around 2 months for action from France and am starting to get a little impatient.
Has any one had positive action from CL France recently or is eveyone else still in limbo???


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## BeckyD (3 January 2012)

Well after waiting ages for Cheval Liberte (Arwel) to contact me as he was supposed to, to discuss my trampoline-like bouncy aluminium floor, I have today given up and called them.  Arwel is away until tomorrow afternoon, but the chap on the end of the phone has arranged for me to take my trailer in (again) to Agrimark/Anglia Trailers to get it fixed.  He reckons it's only a half hour fix (hmmmmmmm) but because I am out of annual leave, I have to take it this Saturday and collect it the following Saturday (despite it being a 3.5hr-4hr round trip!!!).

I shall update further in due course...

Anyone else had any joy fixing the bouncy floor?  Anything I should watch out for?


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## Passtheshampoo (3 January 2012)

I'm still awaiting to hear what CL UK/France are going to do regards my horse falling through trailer floor last year and me paying to replace the floor as at that point CL weren't admitting there was a problem. Have given CL until New Year to tell me what's happening so guess I now look to take matters further. 
Has anyone actually received a refund or compensation for an accident or damage to trailer?  PM me if that's preferable. 
Think CL are hoping we'll all go away. I certainly won't let the matter drop and will be looking to persue through legal channels if I don't hear anything this week.


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## sunnysideup (19 February 2012)

I have had to withdraw from the Medium Freestyle Regional Final today at Addington as when I did my trailer check this morning prior to loading I found a hole in the floor on the right hand side.  The rubber matting had split over this and when pulled back there was daylight all through.  I had used the trailer on Friday when it had all been sound with no signs of any problems when I loaded my horse, but unloaded in the dark so not seen any problem until today.  I was shocked to see the plywood, it is just falling apart and would not be fit for the purpose of transporting horses.  I will be contacting the dealership I purchased it from on Monday, but I would say to anyone with one of these trailers with the plywood floor to get it replaced because mine had shown absolutely no signs of any problems before now.  If I had had any further to travel on my way home on Friday I feel sure I would no longer have my horse.


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## jojane (20 February 2012)

hi i have just bought a 2003xl yr 2006 ???
this seems to b very good my horse likes it n it tows a dream..what is the yr of when the floors were bad???
it has a full service histroy n i bought it from a company who deals with cheval alot the floor has just been re-sealed as the matting had a tiny air bubble in it..
all info greatfull)


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## Passtheshampoo (9 March 2012)

Hi jojane

It's the 2007 particularly that had substandard plywood floors fitted.  Obviously goes without saying to check any trailer floor before you load your horse for a journey whatever make of trailer.


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## Dollope (1 August 2012)

I just wanted to add my piece.  I have a 2007 cheval trailer it was bought second hand with no guarantees and I checked my floors every time I used it.  I found the floor had given way a month ago and found the national contact was absolutely diabolical.  

However I had bought my original trailer from JSW trailers Northallerton and contacted them.  I couldn't have asked for a better reception.  I took the trailer down and as usual Cheval in France didn't turn up when expected though JSW made sure all was in place for when they did turn up the following week.  

Not only was the floor replaced the trailer was given a thorough check over and they replaced an internal light, that hadn't worked since I bought the trailer, completely free of charge.

So regardless of where you live I wouldn't waste my time travelling anywhere else and speak to JSW.  Absolutely can't fault them.  And yes I still check my trailer every time I travel just as I would with any trailer.


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## fjordhorsefan (1 August 2012)

I also had a new floor in my 2006 trailer this May, from my local dealership.  The head office of CL in this country were absolutely appalling, they never responded to my calls and emails about my rotten floor in what is a pretty new and lightly used trailer.  

My trailer is in good nick now, but rest assured when it comes to be replaced I will not be buying with CL - their customer service is dreadful!  The dealers I have spoken to have been great though.


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## Passtheshampoo (1 August 2012)

Another thumbs up for JSW as they were the ones who eventually sorted my refund out. The guy in Wales and has an appalling customer care attitude, wasn't the slightest bit concerned that mmy horse had gone through the floor of the trailer and I can't understand why CL France continue to employ him. He must have lost CL so much business already.  I feel sorry for the Dealerships having to deal with him on a regular basis.


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## evj (1 August 2012)

I was going to but one of the XL single trailers but after reading this ill be going with the Bates!


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## ROG (1 August 2012)

evj said:



			I was going to but one of the XL single trailers but after reading this ill be going with the Bates!
		
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From 2009 those 1000 series trailers were made with an aluminium floor and not a wooden floor so it does depend on the year of the trailer


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## diggerjohn (1 April 2013)

It's not just CL trailers that have issues. I had an Ifor Williams 510, ally floor. My 16hh TB gelding wrecked the partition when I braked suddenly for car driver. I didn't realise the mess he had made of the trailer (he travelled the rest of the way as good as gold) untill I pulled down the rear ramp at the hunt meet to find the front part of the partition resting on his head and the rear part on his backside. He was standing astride the breast bar which had ripped out of the front part of the partition and was resting at an angle with one end on the floor. As he had recoiled and hit the breech bar, that had ripped out as well. I had to dismantle the entire partition just to get him out. When I inspected the damage, it was obvious why the thing had disintegrated. The breast bar is attached to the front part of the partition frame. The frame is NOT welded at the corners, but only riveted to the internal structure of the front part of the partition, which is - a plate of metal about as thick as a tin can with POLYSTYRENE as the central core!!! I was shocked to think that any manufacturer could possible think that this is strong enough. When I contacted Ifor Williams, they said that they used polystyrene instead of plywood in order to make the partitions light enough for women to dismantle!!! What about the strength for the horse!!!
I had a special, strong partition made instead - welded corners and thick marine plywood core.


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## starsailor (1 April 2013)

I bought a second hand CL and the floor appearedto be in good order. About 6 months later my horse became very difficult to load. We were coming home from a show one day when he started to get very upset just as we were leaving. When I checked him i found that to my absolute horror i could see daylight between the floor and the wall
It was an incredibly lucky escape, and lesson learned.  I bought a new I W with Al floor and check it frequently!


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## clait (2 April 2013)

MY horse fell through the floor of my cheval trailer, she is very luck to be alive.
Trading standards are useless  even though the wood on the floor was the cheap compressed stuff meant for shed roofs. We had no way of telling because the floor is rubber sealed on top and fiberglass underneath.
We eventually got a new gold trailer as compensation.
The chap in Wales (Arwell) is a total ****! in my opinion all the 2003 model year 2007 should be recalled and the floors replaced.
I was told by the local dealer there is a batch of these trailers out there! they know it but its cheaper do deal with them as they come along than recall all of them.


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## deoni (3 April 2013)

clait said:



			MY horse fell through the floor of my cheval trailer, she is very luck to be alive.
Trading standards are useless  even though the wood on the floor was the cheap compressed stuff meant for shed roofs. We had no way of telling because the floor is rubber sealed on top and fiberglass underneath.
We eventually got a new gold trailer as compensation.
The chap in Wales (Arwell) is a total ****! in my opinion all the 2003 model year 2007 should be recalled and the floors replaced.
I was told by the local dealer there is a batch of these trailers out there! they know it but its cheaper do deal with them as they come along than recall all of them.
		
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Hi i have this trailer within the recall date. The person I bought it off doesn't remember where they got it from but the guy in Wales said it needs to go back to the original dealer. Is there a way around it as I really want it changed


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## Christmas Crumpet (3 April 2013)

Jen_Cots said:



			Most trailer manufacturers have had problems 

Our ifor severed the back legs of my fathers hunter, because they used composite ply floors and didn't bother sealing the edges; so a 2ft x 2ft section dropped out 

They just paid us to keep quiet and offered very cheap ali floor refits for £300!
		
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Sorry - SEVERED the back legs? As in they were cut off? And you only got £300? Seriously?!!!


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## checkmate1 (3 April 2013)

Hiya, Haven't read the entire thread- but yes my horse went through the floor of  my 2003 CL- Bought new 2008. Had an aliminium floor put in last year. Should never have bought a trailer with a plywood floor but I figured it was new and sealed etc.. Big mistake!


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## noodle_ (3 April 2013)

not read the entire thread but i was looking at buying a CL GT2 - brand new as im aware about floors but didnt reaslie about this?!!

i need this type of trailer due to weight :/// bad idea??


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## deoni (3 April 2013)

noodle_ said:



			not read the entire thread but i was looking at buying a CL GT2 - brand new as im aware about floors but didnt reaslie about this?!!

i need this type of trailer due to weight :/// bad idea??
		
Click to expand...

They are fine now I think, was just one batch of dodgy wood! I think they fit aluminium now


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## locris (9 April 2015)

For the record and in the interests of balanced debate - of which there seems to have been a bit of a lack at times in this thread - I've had a CL Pulman 2003XL for 9 years - purchased new in 2006.  It has always been reliable and never let us down - it has carried my kids ponies and horses to shows and events across the Midlands, and, over the last 4 years, my daughter's horse to and from University with her - she's a Veterinary Student (investing for the future    ).

The people at CL in Wales have always been steady, considered and helpful, although perhaps a little slow at times, however, I have no complaints.

The FLOOR of our trailer is as solid today as when it was new and has never given cause for concern.

A week ago, the horse, Colin, decided he didn't want to come home from university.  After taking hours to load, the Land Rover wouldn't start because the lights had been on and drained the battery.  Colin was now on a trailer where he didn't want to be and decided to escape - he didn't, but did get himself tangled up in metalwork and fibreglass as he reared over the front bar and put both front feet down through the groom's box/tack box on the groom's door.  He had hit the floor with the full force of his rear.

Whilst the fiberglass box was wrecked, and one of the steel bars sheared, the floor remained sound.

I read way back that a bad batch of material had (may have) been used.  Having worked in the motor industry for many years I know how difficult quality control in manufacturing can be when balanced against the need for innovative design.  For years (and still) horse owners have wanted lightweight (so they can be towed with smaller, cheaper, less thirsty vehicles), cheaper, prettier trailers and in an effort to meet that demand CL made some changes to materials and design which may have met one set of criteria, but may also have compromised a product line.

Thankfully, those problems were a long time ago, and whilst you should always check that a trailer meets your needs and is up to the job, it would be wrong to dismiss an entire range of superb trailers simply because of a few problems, a long time ago, with a small number of products.

My last question - in using the trailers, were the operators adhering to the manufacturer's guidelines regarding animal types and weight distribution, as well as vehicle towing capabilities?

Cheers....


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