# Best age to neuter a male dog?



## ecrozier (31 August 2013)

Just been googling, and seems to be a wide variety of opinion as usual!! 
Nelson is coming up 7 months now - bits are, ahem, dropping as normal, and was just pondering when to get him done? 
He's not cocking his leg yet to pee, but has recently started humping his bed occasionally.... Not any kind of a behavioural issue as yet but would rather nip anything in the bud, so to speak, but equally don't want to put him at any risk by neutering too early? Despite being well bred and a relatively uncommon breed we have NO intention of ever using him as stud dog and he is off lead 99.9% of the time so i think neutering is a sensible option. He's very sociable at present with all other dogs - in fact, fairly disinterested if there is a ball on offer as an alternative! Long may that last.....

Will give my vets a call on Monday but know vets tend to be fairly rigid in their opinions and just wanted to canvas a wider audience?


----------



## Dizzydancer (1 September 2013)

Depends on breed- small dogs 7 months is fine as they are fully grown, larger dogs eg Labrador or similar would be closer to 12-18months unless behavioural issues occur.


----------



## ecrozier (1 September 2013)

Mmm ok thanks. He's between the two size wise! He's a Portuguese Water Dog. Adult male weight on breed standard is 25kg and he's 20kg now and not carrying any excess weight. Maybe I should leave it a few more months though.


----------



## Teaselmeg (1 September 2013)

Personally I would wait until he is fully grown, especially if you have no behavioural reason to think about getting him done earlier.


----------



## Cinnamontoast (1 September 2013)

Just to be awkward, I wouldn't neuter at all unless he is desperate to get to other dogs to hump. My older dog is still entire, deeply uninterested in females, doesn't present behaviour issues. 

If you google some studies, as opposed to what the vet/anecdotes say, on balance, the health issues are fairly even for/against neutering.


----------



## MurphysMinder (1 September 2013)

I would leave him until he has finished growing, say around 12 months.


----------



## ecrozier (1 September 2013)

Thanks all.
Cinnamon toast- re the health arguments against neutering, could you point me in the direction of some info on those? I know about the potential weight issue - I don't foresee that being a major problem for him as he's very very active and of a lighter build breed anyway, and have managed my lazier neutered rottie's weight pretty well over the years. But am def looking to do the best for him!


----------



## blackcob (1 September 2013)

cinnamontoast said:



			If you google some studies, as opposed to what the vet/anecdotes say, on balance, the health issues are fairly even for/against neutering.
		
Click to expand...

But only for dogs - it's a lot more clear cut in bitches. Saw two pyos and a mammary strip just this last week, the latter very drastic and possibly unsuccessful. Oh, and two c-sections for 'accidental' pregnancies, one of which had already had one section, both of which were left entire afterwards by the owner's request - I spend a lot of time head-desking. 

For dogs I think the main concern is that neutering can increase the incidence of certain bone cancers and that there's no very obvious health benefits except for the removal of risk of testicular cancer. This has to be summed up against the potential improvement in behaviour in some dogs (humping, roaming etc.)


----------



## Cinnamontoast (1 September 2013)

What she said ^^ Let me see if I can find the study I read....

Bear in mind, this is only one study:

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf


----------



## Alec Swan (1 September 2013)

blackcob said:



			.......

For dogs I think the main concern is that neutering can increase the incidence of certain bone cancers and that there's no very obvious health benefits except for the removal of risk of testicular cancer. *This has to be summed up against the potential improvement in behaviour in some dogs (humping, roaming etc.)*

Click to expand...

As you say,  the benefits and the possible risks are probably equally balanced.  I don't agree that castration is necessarily the cure all to humping and roaming,  and though I accept that you've used the word "Potential",  I'd say that the chances are actually unlikely,  as learned habits aren't easily forgotten.

I've made my views on castration known before,  and am strongly opposed to it,  if it's being used in a preemptive manner.  However,  everyone will make their own decisions,  and my view would be that I'd fail to see the benefits,  but would say that dogs which are castrated;  generally loose their masculinity,  both in temperament and appearance,  with a weakened facial appearance and generally a weaker back end.  A castrated dog,  walking towards us would immediately be recognised by his sexless face.  Castration has exactly the same physical effect upon a dog,  as it does a horse,  in that they are readily distinguishable from their entire counterparts.

Another point about castration,  and again as it is with horses,  if an animal is cut young,  then there's a very real risk of the neutered male growing to well beyond his otherwise potential height.

There seems to be an army of those on here who disagree with me,  which is fine.  My only intention is that those who approach with the question are entitled to hear the views of everyone.  Being in possession of opposing views,  will enable us live with our decisions.

Alec.


----------



## ecrozier (1 September 2013)

Hmm interesting thanks. I must admit I had always assumed it was just 'what you did' with dogs that weren't intended for breeding purposes (I guess my experience has been more in horses and cats though which are obviously different in their challenges). Sounds like we are best to wait at least til he is 12 months old as a minimum, and then perhaps just see if any undesirable behaviours do actually manifest. So far, touch wood, he's an absolute delight in every way, and is absolutely no trouble to anyone. He's currently playing with my friends two bitches in her garden, and has deferred instantly to her dominant one!


----------



## Honey08 (1 September 2013)

I am strongly pro neutering, especially being slightly involved with and getting dogs from rescues.  I can safely say that I have never had any issues health wise with a neutered dog in 40 years of having dogs and have never met anyone that has either.  I can't say I notice a difference between my friend's un neutered male lab and my neutered one, in fact, if anything, mine is more masculine simply by being a higher pecking order type of dog and hers being a bit of a wuss.  My dog was neutered at 14 months (when we got him from the rescue), I have to say he still thinks he is entire, he does something that every human male would love to be able to do  every morning, prior to this he is hyper for ten minutes and tries to get on our female!  Afterwards he is totally calm and has no interest in anything in season.  Just seems to be morning glory!


----------



## blackcob (1 September 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			As you say,  the benefits and the possible risks are probably equally balanced.  I don't agree that castration is necessarily the cure all to humping and roaming,  and though I accept that you've used the word "Potential",  I'd say that the chances are actually unlikely,  as learned habits aren't easily forgotten.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I was very careful in my choice of wording as IME many serial humpers do it out of habit rather than a purely sexual behaviour. And castrating a humper isn't always straightforward - we had one come back who'd gone home after the op and spent the evening enthusiastically shagging his bedding (one last hurrah, I suppose!) and gave himself a gigantic scrotal haematoma. 

I will always spay a bitch, and early at that, but having done my research for work I'm now on the fence about routine castration.

ETA: My own male dog is neutered, he was done at 10 months in his previous home before he came into rescue, and I would still routinely castrate rescue dogs.


----------



## SusieT (1 September 2013)

I would neuter - for behaviour and relaxing when off the lead that he's not sowing his oats. Age wise-around 12 months for his size would be about appropriate. Very quick, simple operation and imo neutered dogs are much more pleasant in general!


----------



## SusieT (1 September 2013)

To add- if you wait for behaviours to manifest, the longer he does them the less likely neutering will cure them.


----------



## CAYLA (1 September 2013)

blackcob said:



			But only for dogs - it's a lot more clear cut in bitches. Saw two pyos and a mammary strip just this last week, the latter very drastic and possibly unsuccessful. Oh, and two c-sections for 'accidental' pregnancies, one of which had already had one section, both of which were left entire afterwards by the owner's request - I spend a lot of time head-desking. 

For dogs I think the main concern is that neutering can increase the incidence of certain bone cancers and that there's no very obvious health benefits except for the removal of risk of testicular cancer. This has to be summed up against the potential improvement in behaviour in some dogs (humping, roaming etc.)
		
Click to expand...

This^^ and prostate cancers.


----------



## mon (1 September 2013)

We had our JRT done at six months as we have a lot of bitches Inc his mother and sister, he still humps and ties with them but at least he fires blanks.


----------



## SusieT (1 September 2013)

prostate cancer is a far less likely than prostate hyperplasia (swelling) which is most common in entire dogs and causes incontinence-there is a small increase in risk of bone cancer in large breed dogs neutered EARLY and either no difference or a small increase in risk of prostate cancer- it does not cause cancer.


----------



## splashgirl45 (1 September 2013)

im sorry, i get very cross when people are against castrating dogs but are very happy to spay females...WHY?????. it is extremely annoying to be out for a walk with my 2 spayed females and have some lump of a dog try and hump them and the owner says oh he hasnt done it before.........surely if they are not fantastic specimens of a breed, why keep  them entire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  there are way too many unwanted dogs out there so the more dogs and bitches that are neutured the better   IMO....


----------



## ThreeTB's (1 September 2013)

I have a 2 male flatcoats, aged 5 and 4, the older one is castrated, the younger is entire. We did do a bit of showing when he was young, so wasn't in a rush to get him done, and as time has gone by I've not bothered as he never humps anything (the castrated one will hump him if he has a toy that he wants though!) and isn't bothered about bitches. He's a laid-back, happy boy with no behavioural issues at all, and as he already has a lot more coat than desirable for his breed and suffers in the heat, I worry about how castration would affect his coat more than anything! 
I had the older one done at 7 months, simply as he was having a GA for something else, so thought it might as well be done at the same time - never again! He was too young, and has never really grown up  Really wish I'd waited until he was at least a year old, but what's done is done.


----------



## CAYLA (1 September 2013)

One thing we can do is make our own informed choices and hope we make the best for our dogs, luckily I have done so far.
Experienced will differ, I have seen enough cases of prostate "cancer" and admittedly far more of hyperplasia and I have to say enough cases of young large breed (neutered) males with bone cancer and all gigantic for their breed size and we where even able to compare litter mates neutered later. We now keep our large breed males in rescue as we wont allow them to go out entire unless its someone who has previously adopted and returned on a neuter contract (something my mam never did) as she used to neuter early and rehome but we have seen a lot of young males with bone cancer and hip issues for her to change her mind. We kept a mastiff back for 4 month in order to wait for castrate a he was being home a distance away. I have always had an age range dependant on breed for castration/spay.
I would always neuter FULL STOP at the right age be It dog or bitch.
Each to their own.


----------



## CAYLA (1 September 2013)

splashgirl45 said:



			im sorry, i get very cross when people are against castrating dogs but are very happy to spay females...WHY?????. it is extremely annoying to be out for a walk with my 2 spayed females and have some lump of a dog try and hump them and the owner says oh he hasnt done it before.........surely if they are not fantastic specimens of a breed, why keep  them entire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  there are way too many unwanted dogs out there so the more dogs and bitches that are neutured the better   IMO....
		
Click to expand...

Yep, these would be the people who cannot manage an entire male but wont admit it and think it fair they exercise their right, fortunately my dogs, be it castrated mean business and wont let a dog hump them (as masculine as these entire dogs maybe, they are no match for mine it seems, esp my castrated lurcher he is a beast when it comes to reprimanding dogs which is a good job as they don't want my reprimand that's fore sure neither the owner or their dog as someone found out when their husky tried to hum Lady La La's dog (from hho) when I had him and would not allow him to react as I was training him! had that been one of my dogs I would have let them take its head off, so instead (I reacted for him)  cue scolded dog and owner in tears.

There are plenty of well behaved entire dogs well under control out there though! u obs came across the idiots that can't.


----------



## Cinnamontoast (1 September 2013)

On balance, having read the studies and considered the pros and cons, my older boy is entire because he has never once shown interest in bitches and I believe it is better for him. If I had bitches, they'd be neutered because of the pyo risk which is just too much of a risk, IMO. So Splashgirl, that is why I'm didn't neuter but I would spay a female. If my dog was a pain, as Bear was, straight down the vets!


----------



## Leo Walker (2 September 2013)

My bitch is spayed, my dogs entire. He has no interest in bitches, or wandering. He does hump things very, very occasionally, but he does it as a stress response not a sexual act. I'm as sure as I can be that neutering wouldn't stop him getting his knickers in a twist when something happens that he perceives as being the end of the world  And to be fair to him, he hasnt actually done any humping for 6 months or so that i can remember, and that was a house move which nearly caused a melt down 

The first time he shows a serious interest in bitches, wandering or bothering other peoples dogs he will be neutered. Hes nearly 2yrs old now and almost fully mature. If he wasnt I would find a way to manage him until he was.


----------



## ecrozier (2 September 2013)

Thanks all
On balance it sounds like I will do best to wait at least until he is a full year old, and then if he is still as good as he is now about recall/not wandering off, he can keep them until I see reason to do otherwise!
Re the poster above who says they don't see why people spay bitches and not neuter dogs - I would without doubt be booking him in if he was a girl I am afraid. Both my mum's bitches have suffered horribly with phantom pregnancies etc, one had an ovarian cyst, and both were spayed at 18 months. 
I absolutely don't have an issue with unneutered male dogs as long as they don't pester bitches/hump other dogs/animals/people!! But that's the same with unruly dogs in general - whether neutered or not!


----------

