# Using grazing muzzle 24/7?



## bex1984 (21 June 2007)

Just wondering what people's opinions of using grazing muzzles 24/7 are?

Ponio is currently wearing his during the day, and I'm taking it off at night. I've been doing this for 2 days, and he has twigged that I'm coming to put it on in the morning, and I spent 10 minutes chasing him round the field trying to put it on today.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I have a feeling he's going to make it increasingly difficult for me to put it on in the morning and I don't have much time at the yard in the morning! 

Alternatively, would it do any good to have it on overnight and off in the day or is that pointless?  
	
	
		
		
	


	





It is rubbing at the moment; obviously I wouldn't leave it on for 24 hours until it stops rubbing.


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## Amymay (21 June 2007)

They are not designed to be used 24/7 - and shouldn't be.


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## eventrider23 (21 June 2007)

When my mare wears hers I tend to only put it on her at night as I feel that on a hot day it must be absolutely horrid to have to wear something like that on your face on a hot summers day...at least the nights are cooler. And if she got sore bits I tended to put some vaseline on them to make them a bit slipperier and thus stop rubbing. 
I wouldn't leave mine on 24/7 for any length of time as they just are not able to get enough nutrition, especially as the grass gets shorter.


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## bex1984 (21 June 2007)

am really struggling to find a solution to his weight problem. Part of me just wants to say FINE....just go out in the field, gorge yourself and BE a fat hippo, but I know I can't.

I just can't seem to find a solution that works...


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## Christmas_Kate (21 June 2007)

Bex, leave it on 24/7. 

IMO anyone who says you shouldnt has obviously never had to deal with a ponio who is having REAL problems getting weight off. Or a laminitic. 
It's NOT cruel. Ours lives in his 24/7. I take it off for a bit whe I poo pick, and let him have a gallop round in the big field at the same time. 

It's more cruel to let them put more weight on. 

I can totally sympathise with you. I was told I was evil for leaving ponio's muzzle on 24/7, so i took it off... and he's piled more weight on, and I feel awful. 

Get that muzzle on and leave it on !!!!


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## comicduo (21 June 2007)

I am reluctanat to leave Clover's on for more then a couple of hours as there has been some much written recently about gastric ulcers. 
She is worked for 1-2hrs per day, wears the muzzle from lunchtime to when I get back from work at 5 and spends as much time as possible in her starvation paddock. She is still fatter then is ideal but she isn't the whale that she was last season. 
With my old horse (who had cushings) he was only allowed out wearing his muzzle unless he was on a starvation mud patch but he was only out at night so had the whole day to eat suitable feed.


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## bensababy (21 June 2007)

Bex do you exercise him regulary?? mine is a Lammi sufferer and he goes out during day with it on and comes in at night.. If i was you i would try and leave it on as much as poss... better he loses weight than run the risk of getting lammi or even fatter!


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## Amymay (21 June 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
IMO anyone who says you shouldnt has obviously never had to deal with a ponio who is having REAL problems getting weight off  

[/ QUOTE ] 
Katy - Amy was a horse whose weight I battled with for years.  I became a massive grazing muzzle fan two years ago.  She wore it every day through the summer in the day, and it was removed at night.  Amy was by this time retired due to soundness problems - so I wasn't able to offer her any exercise to help manage the weight either.

So - no I don't think they are cruel - I actually think they are marvelous.  However, I stand by what I said previously that they are not designed to be worn 24/7 - and in fact can be detrimental to the health of your animal if they are left on all the time.  

So, we will have to agree to disagree on this one


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## minxymoo (21 June 2007)

My little pony tends to keep hers on during the day off at night.  I feel for you as it is a huge problem.  I was once told at a livery yard I was at that I was cruel putting it on my pony as it was like putting a massive plate of cakes in front of a fat person with wired jaws!!!!!  Talk about stupid peeps!!!!


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## _daisy_ (21 June 2007)

my lammi ponio wears hers 24/7. She lives in the field with her mates who have no problem with their weight and she is happier living with them rather than being stabled or having her own paddock away from the others.
Her muzzle doesnt rub and she has 2/3 muzzles so I can get them cleaned regularly or it one breaks I have a spare.


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## bex1984 (21 June 2007)

I try to ride every day, but can't when the weather is really bad (i.e., torrential rain and thunderstorms, which we've been having a lot of). He's never had lami as far as I know, but is very overweight.

Katy - I do agree with you really that it needs to be on 24/7. He seems to be able to eat a fair amount with it on.4 I can take it off for a few hours each evening while I'm there. 

Amymay - can I ask why it might be detrimental to his health? Is it because he wouldn't be getting enough fibre going through his guts?


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## zigzag (21 June 2007)

Leave it on 24/7 far better than getting laminitis, my friend felt that she was cruel leaving her muzzle on, so took it off during day , pony soon twigged and wouldm't be caught in evening, now down with mild lami


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## Christmas_Kate (21 June 2007)

From what I can work out, there _ may_ be a small risk of gastric ulcers. I've never heard of that before, and my vet never mentioned it. 

Far far more risk of obesity, laminitis, heart attack etc when they're allowed to eat freely. 

If you're worried about him getting hot, then clip him out, ours has a full clip, face and everything, and he's coping with the heat and wearing a muzzle just fine. The added plus is that if it gets a little chilly at night he'll use extra calories keeping warm, AND he'll feel alot better and will feel more up to playing and walking about in the heat. 

I've just reduced his paddock by half as the grass seems to be coming through even faster and lusher after the rain.


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## claire1976 (21 June 2007)

I use mine one day on then one day off.  Mainly because my mare gets quite depressed if she has it on every day.  You are better off using during the day then off at night as the sugar content in the grass is higher during the day.


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## Amymay (21 June 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Amymay - can I ask why it might be detrimental to his health? Is it because he wouldn't be getting enough fibre going through his guts?   

[/ QUOTE ] 
Yes, that would always be my concern - and the fact that essentially you are starving them very long term.  So my preference would always be maximum of 12 hours only.  That, coupled with a good exercise regime, should be perfect to keep your horse at the ideal weight (I would have thought).


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## bex1984 (21 June 2007)

I do see what you mean, but he seems to be able to eat a reasonable amount in his muzzle. Unfortunately he is far from his ideal weight, and I need to get some off - having it on 12 hours a day would probably maintain his weight as you say. 

I think I'll try it for a few days, making sure he gets a feed of happy hoof as well in the evening, and monitor him - I can tell if he's hungry and can monitor his poos as well.


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## ShadowFlame (21 June 2007)

I was told that if you take it off at night you may as well not be putting it on at all. While it is off most horses will gorge themselves overnight, which completely defeats the purpose of the muzzle. It should be on 24/7, providing it doesn't rub. My lad has had his on 24hrs a day for the past week and he manages just fine. I allow him to munch on a haynet when he's brought in, to begin with he would eat the entire haynet if he was allowed to, obviously not getting alot through the muzzle. Now he will munch for maybe 5-10mins then won't eat anymore - he can't be that hungry!

Just read that yours rubs, are you sure you have the right size muzzle? My Welsh D takes a full size muzzle and there is no rubbing at all, in a cob size he can barely open his mouth, in which case it would be cruelty to leave it on 24/7!


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## ShadowFlame (21 June 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 [ QUOTE ]
Amymay - can I ask why it might be detrimental to his health? Is it because he wouldn't be getting enough fibre going through his guts?   

[/ QUOTE ] 
Yes, that would always be my concern - and the fact that essentially you are starving them very long term.  So my preference would always be maximum of 12 hours only.  That, coupled with a good exercise regime, should be perfect to keep your horse at the ideal weight (I would have thought). 

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised at how much they can get through a muzzle. My gelding is hardly starving with his on!


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## bex1984 (21 June 2007)

I have a cob size and he is 14hh, it is rubbing quite a bit but I superglued some fleecey stuff to it last night in the hope that that might stop it rubbing. I'm not sure how tight/loose they should be really!!!


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## Oaksflight (21 June 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I am reluctanat to leave Clover's on for more then a couple of hours as there has been some much written recently about gastric ulcers.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only way a grazing muzzle would encourage gastric ulcers is if they could barely eat at all through it. Why don't you bring him in during the day, or for half the day? Give him a small haynet and small hardfeed, then chuck him out in it again? 

Whenever mine goes out he has his grass mask on. I can't catch him without it on, and he puts on weight in an instant. He copes perfectly fine, and can eat fine through it. I have 2 that are very different designs so can alternate if one is rubbing. As of next week he'll be living out 24/7, coming in for a min. of three hours a day when he shall be ridden and fed a hard feed. This is exactly what happened last summer and he coped fine.


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## ShadowFlame (21 June 2007)

If it is the bucket muzzle then you will be better off having a full size. My lad's is very loose while his mouth is shut but gives him enough room to eat, yawn, etc and no rubs at all. I knew a finely built Welsh B who wore a cob size one (which fitted her quite well).


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## ISHmad (21 June 2007)

They are not designed to be left on for 24/7, even the manufacturers themselves say that - and they are the ones trying to get us to buy them!  And when you take it off at night, all your horse is going to do is gorge, which is a potential colic and/or laminitis risk.  

You really do need to muzzle for either the day or the night and then the other part of the day or night have your horse either on restricted or no grazing or in a stable.  Whichever option you choose ensure that they have ad lib soaked hay/haylage to keep the hindgut moving.

Exercise will definitely help too.  It is a real struggle with good doers, I've got one where we have to really work at his weight management, but he is looking really good now.  So you will get there, just takes a lot of time and commitment.


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## ShadowFlame (21 June 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
They are not designed to be left on for 24/7, even the manufacturers themselves say that - and they are the ones trying to get us to buy them!  And when you take it off at night, all your horse is going to do is gorge, which is a potential colic and/or laminitis risk.  

You really do need to muzzle for either the day or the night and then the other part of the day or night have your horse either on restricted or no grazing or in a stable.  Whichever option you choose ensure that they have ad lib soaked hay/haylage to keep the hindgut moving.

Exercise will definitely help too.  It is a real struggle with good doers, I've got one where we have to really work at his weight management, but he is looking really good now.  So you will get there, just takes a lot of time and commitment. 

[/ QUOTE ]

And which manufacturer states that? I'd be interested to know.

My gelding currently has a dodgy leg which the vet has ordered to do no more than 20mins of walk per day. The yard owner refuses to section off the field (I have already asked), and I have no stable. What do you suggest I do apart from either muzzle 24/7 or let my horse die of laminitus?


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## ISHmad (21 June 2007)

Then move your horse to somewhere which does have the facilities he or she needs!


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## ISHmad (21 June 2007)

See www.bestfriendequine.com - in their FAQ's it says they don't recommend 24/7 use although some customers have done this.  They recommend seeking veterinary advice before doing so.  www.safergrass.org - horse needs to have at least 6 hours unmuzzled a day.  

Tell you what, you have a look for yourself, the information is there if you want to see it.


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## ShadowFlame (21 June 2007)

And the fact that none of the yards in our area offers restricted turnout...?

Things aren't always as simple as snapping your fingers and everything's heaven. I hate my yard, I have been looking to find a new yard for the past 2months. I have asked on forums (with no reply), I have advetised, I have tried word of mouth, I have dropped in at livery yards to enquire, yet I can find nowhere suitable. Either no limited grazing, no turnout or individual turnout in which case my gelding gets depressed. His grazing muzzle is an essential evil until I can find a decent yard to move him to, and it appears that it may take a while.


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## bex1984 (21 June 2007)

I guess it depends how good they are at using the muzzle...if they can hardly get any grass I'd think it wasn't right to have it on for 24 hours, but if they're still eating a fair amount (as mine seems to be) then their guts are still active...


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## ShadowFlame (21 June 2007)

*"however many of our customers report that they have been doing this successfully"* 

When horses have figured out how to use the muzzle successfully, they can get enough grass through the hole to have it on 24/7. Mine has had his on 24/7 for a week, he hasn't keeled over yet - in fact he is quite content with the muzzle on, he can eat but in moderation. What's crueler? To muzzle 24/7 or have a severe laminitic where I need to consider euthanesia to put him out of his misery? No question for me I'm afraid.


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## ISHmad (21 June 2007)

Whoah ShadowFlame, don't shoot the messenger, wish I hadn't bothered now.  At the end of the day you have to do what is right for your horse.


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## herbie435 (21 June 2007)

we have 2 laminitic ponies and these grazing muzzles have been the best things for there waist line!
if they are out 24hrs then they have them on all the time and it doesn't seem 2 effect them.
then sometimes they are in at night so they wear them during the day.
It is best if u have an over weight or laminitic pony to turn out at night only as there are less sugars in the grass.
Also long brown grass is better than short green grass which is very high in sugar. Hope this is some help?


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## bex1984 (21 June 2007)

Thanks phantom435 and welcome to the forum!!


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## ISHmad (21 June 2007)

Bex1984, there is a good website called www.safergrass.org which has lots of useful information about different types of grass, best times for turnout as Phantom435 says etc. The Laminitic Trust website is pretty useful too (although easy to scare yourself witless on there)!

My friend who called about 30 mins ago has a horse who had low grade laminitis at the end of last week.  We both maintain it is much easier to look after a poor doer than a good doer.  And the crazy weather at the moment isn't helping one bit unfortunately.


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## bex1984 (21 June 2007)

I would agree that it might be easier to look after a poor doer (in summer anyway)!! Mine has never had lami, but is very overweight at the mo. Thanks for the link, will have a look.


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## ShadowFlame (21 June 2007)

Sorry ISH_Mad, I came across a bit harsh there. I just have so many people comment on how cruel it is to muzzle my boy at all, let alone 24/7 and people asking how on earth I can do such a thing, it is a subject I am quite sensitive about. At the end of the day my boy is overweight, he is in a less than ideal field, and there is nothing I can do about it at the mo. My only option is to muzzle, or possibly lose the horse. I don't agree with it but there is no other option for me, just yet.

Doesn't help that I've had the day from hell at my current livery yard either 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Apologies.


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## ISHmad (21 June 2007)

No need to apologise ShadowFlame, but thank you anyway, that is really nice of you.  It is frustrating when things are outside of your control, I really do understand that.  I know what you mean about comments regarding muzzling.  Somebody at our yard actually believed that by being muzzled it meant that the horse could not eat a thing!  She thought that there was just a solid rubber bottom to the mask.  Pointed out to her that although he would lose even more weight if he became dehydrated he firstly had to be able to drink and secondly had to have enough grass during the day to keep his hindgut moving.  Truly couldn't believe that people could think that, just does to show I guess.

Just hope that you manage to find a good solution soon, you don't sound very happy at all where you are at the moment.  I know that one too, been there, done that and it is horrible.  You take care and hope everything goes okay for you and your horse.


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## ISHmad (21 June 2007)

Sorry, meant to say just goes to show I guess, not just does to show I guess.  Getting tired, it's been a long day...


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## ShadowFlame (21 June 2007)

The state of the yard itself is nothing to be proud of, but the worst thing there is the liveries. NOT a pleasant experience being there, hence looking for a new yard. Any ones that sounds half suitable are 10+ miles away which is just not possible for me on a daily basis, so am having to stay put for the mo. Hoss is reasonably happy though and that's the important thing...

The muzzle seems to be working for the moment though (apart from a couple of tiny rubs where the cheekpieces of the muzzle would be, have to find something to sew on). I know I am doing the best for him but there is only so many comments you can take before hitting breaking point, which is approaching rather too fast methinks.


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