# Hind gut issues and link to hind end lameness?



## swellhillcottage (6 June 2015)

Does anyone have any experience of a  horse suffering with  hind gut issues and them having unexplainable hind end lameness if so please share  

I did suspect as much with my fella and started him on Equisure and then Succeed and it seems to make a huge difference but pony is still 1/10 lame off hind and is positive to a flexion but only for a few steps - nothing is obvious and hock x-rays are ok. 

S X


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## philamena (7 June 2015)

swellhillcottage said:



			Does anyone have any experience of a  horse suffering with  hind gut issues and them having unexplainable hind end lameness if so please share  

I did suspect as much with my fella and started him on Equisure and then Succeed and it seems to make a huge difference but pony is still 1/10 lame off hind and is positive to a flexion but only for a few steps - nothing is obvious and hock x-rays are ok. 

S X
		
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Great result so far by the sound of it  I didn't get lameness with mine, but serious asymmetry and a much weaker right hind which caused the kind of saddle slip you would usually associate with hind end lameness, so probably not far off getting there, if you know what I mean. So I can't help with the specific situation, but would say that correcting and resolving all of the very many muscular probs and hypertonicity which resulted from the ulcers and gut issues took WAY longer than I expected and some really concerted osteopathy... so it may well take longer and more muscular work than you'd expected - but keep the faith


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## Simon Battram (8 June 2015)

Yes I have a client with horse who has ulcers in hind gut which caused right hind lameness. Had the lameness thoroughly checked out and found nothing. After treatment for ulcers and correct schooling work (working on suppleness, calmness and relaxation) the lameness goes.

Must say so that each case is different and you never want to assume this is the case but yes, have definitely heard of the ulcers linked to lameness.


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## Scarlett (8 June 2015)

Yes, mine was diagnosed with hind gut inflammation. With hindsight we realised that when he'd previously had flare ups the right hind hadn't been moving as well as the left, and when jumping he wasn't pushing off equally. He's had physio to help and the vet eventually injected the hock. He moves and feels different in his body now his gut is better and we have been working to strengthen the hind, he's 100% better now.

He's barefoot and we did notice that when he was sore his near fore was flatter - now he is pushing better behind the near fore has really come up and he is developing a much better balanced foot with a heel.


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## stilltrying (8 June 2015)

In short, yes.  My friend's horse Ted was diagnosed with severe hindgut problems and one the symptoms (amongst many) was right hind lameness.  He was very poorly though and unfortunately was PTS earlier this year aged 6.  But he was the worst case the vet had seen so with lifestyle changes & medication it does seem the condition can be managed. Good luck! : )


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## swellhillcottage (8 June 2015)

Excellent response Thank you   - I was beginning to believe I was crackers  now to try and convince veterinary!

Out of interest for those that had treatment done on the gut what substance was used? 

S X


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## asommerville (8 June 2015)

Right on time my boys going in to get scoped next week, is sound by lame on his right hind with a flexion test!  Doesn't look like your typical ulcer candidate but something def not right


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## philamena (8 June 2015)

asommerville said:



			Doesn't look like your typical ulcer candidate but something def not right
		
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They very often don't - but look at how their gut is moved and squidged during a flexion and you can see why they might limp afterwards, even if it hasnt' begun to cause actual muscular  lameness issues in normal movement!  Good luck for the scope, though it won't show the gut if you've got a prob in the stomach it's highly likely there are inflammation or ulceration issues further back too.


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## swellhillcottage (8 June 2015)

asommerville said:



			Right on time my boys going in to get scoped next week, is sound by lame on his right hind with a flexion test!  Doesn't look like your typical ulcer candidate but something def not right
		
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Neither is mine its a right shiny butterball Connemara 
I didn't go for scoping but tried Equisure to start with and got a good result then added Succeed and that improved him again - just got the front end to sort out now


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## asommerville (8 June 2015)

I just want to find out what's wrong with him - the vet did say that once you start looking for ulcers they generally have them!!  Although is anyone experienced with scoping as I was told I need to starve him for 24 hours but my mate only starved for 12?


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## philamena (8 June 2015)

asommerville said:



			I just want to find out what's wrong with him - the vet did say that once you start looking for ulcers they generally have them!!  Although is anyone experienced with scoping as I was told I need to starve him for 24 hours but my mate only starved for 12?
		
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24 hours? Noooooooo, 10 to 12 maximum. You will find it way more stressful than they do. Don't forget you know it's 12 hours, they just live in the moment. But really watch where they put them when you get to the vets as they once put mine in what they said was a food free stable but she found some whisps in among the paper bedding and nearly undid all my good work. I was very cross!


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## wench (8 June 2015)

philamena said:



			24 hours? Noooooooo, 10 to 12 maximum. You will find it way more stressful than they do. Don't forget you know it's 12 hours, they just live in the moment. But really watch where they put them when you get to the vets as they once put mine in what they said was a food free stable but she found some whisps in among the paper bedding and nearly undid all my good work. I was very cross!
		
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Nope it can depend on the horse. I've had one that had to go without for 24 hours plus.


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## asommerville (8 June 2015)

He will be a very very angry Arab if it is 24 hours and he angrier he is the less chance he has of loading!  I will speak to vet directly, the receptionist did say that they would take him ninths night before and starve him but I feel bad - blooming horses x


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## philamena (8 June 2015)

wench said:



			Nope it can depend on the horse. I've had one that had to go without for 24 hours plus.
		
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Sure - but you'd never start with 24 hours. Vets quite often have to send horses back to the stable to starve for longer but it wouldn't be sensible or proportionate to tell people to starve for 24 hours for the first attempt...


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## stilltrying (9 June 2015)

swellhillcottage said:



			Excellent response Thank you   - I was beginning to believe I was crackers  now to try and convince veterinary!

Out of interest for those that had treatment done on the gut what substance was used? 

S X
		
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Horse was initially scoped for ulcers, as someone has said, one of those things if you go looking for they tend to be there. The starving him caused stress and more pain, and he declined further.  Some ulcers were found, gastroguard was given, no improvement. Re-scoped (and starved again), causing further decline & stress, no ulcers found, yet horse was still deteriorating.  

Then diagnosed by a different vet with severe HGA and ulceration. Put on Equishure and within about 2 days started to pick up a little.  He also began a course of herbal treatment alongside the equishure, with a view to stabilising his gut acid and then repopulating the gut with good bacteria. At this point he was at his best on equishure and the herbal remedies. His coat looked better, he picked up some weight, but was never 100% sound on the right hind and never looked a truly healthy horse. 

Tried 2 x attempts at stabilising his gut to no avail. His feet were awful, he kept getting skin infections, he hated being touched, was visibly in pain and was losing weight so decision was made that enough was enough.  Very sad.


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## asommerville (9 June 2015)

With regards to the hind gut ulcers I have read a lot about renitidine being effective, wonder whether to get him some before he goes into he vet next Friday or do you reckon better waiting till the vet sees him?


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## asommerville (9 June 2015)

Would the equisure have a similar effect to Brewers yeast?  Sorry for thread hijack OP!!


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## Scarlett (9 June 2015)

asommerville said:



			Would the equisure have a similar effect to Brewers yeast?  Sorry for thread hijack OP!!
		
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No, Equishure is Sodium Bicarb and vegetable oil in powder form that is designed to get to the hind gut. You can try and mimic it by mixing bicarb and veg oil/linseed oil/coconut oil but I've never found that as effective.

Mine scoped clear for ulcers - we were astounded. Everyone was certain he had them from symptoms. He was scanned and found to have an inflamed bowel. We tried steroids and he got worse, put him on Equishure and he was better in 3 days, much better within a week and has been thriving since. We do have to limit his grass intake and I'm very careful about what he eats and ensuring he has hay at all times when in.


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## asommerville (9 June 2015)

That's interesting thanks!  What were the symptoms of an inflamed bowel?  This is murder I have him diagnosed with all sorts &#128556; vet at one point also mentioned colitis which I haven't googled yet!


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## Firewell (9 June 2015)

Yes my horse. The vet said hindgut pain and ulcers can cause right sided hindlimb problems and asymmetry. My horse was sore high up at the front of the right pelvis, he has less muscle on the right shoulder and had a sore left shoulder and like Scarletts horse a flatter left hoof.
It sounds awful but basically made him stiff and reluctant to bend to the right and tail swishy. He has always looked great and despite his wonkyness has always performed well so he learned to cope with it. Then of course the saddle slips and I sat wonky which made it worse.
We did a course of omeprazole (sp?) for 6 weeks then a hindgut supplement which he is still on now. He had chiropractic treatment to help with the muscle pain andhe had vitamin e injections and blood injections (ok I was a bit confused by that but they took his blood and injected that into the sore bits) into his right side pelvis, left shoulder and left fetlock.
He felt a different horse after all that!
The biggest difference has been from changing his lifestyle. He lives out 24/7 now on grass, he has hay morning and night in the field to help manage the passage of rich grass. He has low starch feed once per day and that's it.
He looks incredible and he is so fat, shiny and calm. It has really helped him being able to move about and nibble what he wants, when he wants. 
I also give him ulcer guard now whenever we go to a show or in the trailer.
I'm really happy we figured out what it was as I was always worried it was something skeletal. I just have to be careful with changes in grass, I can tell when he gets pain again as he gets tail swishy under saddle, chewy and crabby to bend to the right.


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## swellhillcottage (9 June 2015)

Firewell you are brilliant!  sounds like my pony to a t


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