# Shivers - advice please!



## Leonie (14 November 2007)

My 3 yo has just been diagnosed with shivers.  I've been told it's unlikely he'll be able to be ridden for H&amp;S reasons.

Has anyone here had any experience of a horse with shivers or any advice they could give me please?

Thanks, Leonie


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## alicedove (14 November 2007)

I know two horses with shivers who have had very successful careers and are still going strong. One is a top show cob whom I won't mention its name, it is ten,  and one is a welshxTB overgrown hoss who is just shy of 17hh and has evented at intermediate level and dressaged at ele.  he is around 18 and still fine, failed vet at about three or four on flexion and shiver.


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## alicedove (14 November 2007)

Maybe get a second opinion?  Or a good farrier's opinion?


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## carthorse (14 November 2007)

Pm time faulter ,I think he has had experience recently of this , but I may be wrong.
Good luck


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## Christmas Crumpet (14 November 2007)

I have hunted a horse for 2 seasons with a shiver. He was absolutely fine and possibly one of the best horses you'd like to hunt. 

The only time his shiver showed up was when you picked out his back feet. He is now about 13 and still totally fine to hunt.


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## JenHunt (14 November 2007)

my friends horse had shivers, and for the most part you'd never notice, just occasionally he'd move off funny out hunting. then be fine apart from the first step or two. the other time you'd see it was when he was asked to step backwards, he found it really difficult.

he hunted for years no problem, and was sold as a 'hack' because he strained something. i came across him again a couple of years ago in a strange twist of fate, still enjoying life and hacking out with a novice rider. but they can't shoe his back feet anymore. i watched him being shod and the shiver starts in his chest muscles and runs along his side and up over the quarters. the farrier said he had slipped in the field and twisted his back and its been worse since then. The horse is now 25, and still effectively sound, just needs some special care.

get your horse's back checked, get a decent farrier and work with the pair of them and i'm sure he'll be fine.


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## MrStevo (14 November 2007)

dont panic!

My brood mare has this and she is now 22 - she team chased for 10 years and hunted for 4 till she retired after her last foal 3 1/2 years ago.  Only problem now is picking her bck feet out, she pulls them away, she is alot better if she is supported properly tho! (doesnt help my back any!)


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## YorkshireLass (14 November 2007)

I have a shiverer.

The condition is poorly understood.  It may degenerate, it may not.  Some cases have shown up to 100% improvement with diet therapy.

There is no treatment except diet therapy.. which is poorly understood in the UK.

Have a look at this. It talks about the condition in draft horses as it is VERY common in this sort.  The info applies to all breeds.  http://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/epsm.htm 

You can contact Dr Valentine (top researcher in this area) with any questions via Rural Heritage.  Her e-mail address is at the bottom of the page.

Yuo don't say whether your horse is an entire or not.  DON'T BREED FROM A SHIVERER.. the condition is hereditry.


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## Leonie (14 November 2007)

Thanks everyone for replying.  That does give me hope!

Yorkshirelass - Can I ask what you feed your shiverer? Have you found anything that you could recommend?  I have read on the net a similiar article about increasing fats &amp; lowering sugars.  Mine is a gelding so wont be bred from.

I've had an Osteopath &amp; vet take a look at him, they both commented about not riding as neurological problems can mean they loose co-ordination and sometimes fall / lose control of their back end - has this happened to anyone?


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## YorkshireLass (14 November 2007)

Mine is a Shire so he has lost more oil and feed than a smaller horse.

He gets..

2 pints of corn oil. Mixed with the Healthy Hooves to soak it up.  I get the oil from Tesco, you can place a monthly order so you know it is going to be there!  Buying oil from the supermarket works out much cheaper.  Make sure it is pure, ie non hydrogenated.
3 stubbs scoops of Badminton High Fiber Complete Nuggets (hay replacer) soaked.
2 stubbs scoops of Dengie Healthy hooves.

I suplement Selenium &amp; Vitamin E (from NAF or Feedmark)
Also cal-mag (any magnesium calmer will do) great for muscles!

Selenium is a dodgy thing to mess with so if you are unsure about how much is present in your grazing and feed, get the vet to do a bloods once he horse has been on the diet a couple of weeks.

He has free access to a pure salt lick.  Careful with licks, lots of sugar can lurk there!

I mix the whole lot up together and leave him with it over night. It is all forage based so it is fine to do this.  He is exercised every day of the week.  They must be exercised till thery are WORKING so the oil energy gets to the muscles.  He also has maximum turnout.

As a rule, anything suitable for laminitics will do as a base for the oil.  Low sugar, Low starch, high fiber.  But watch the sugar/molasses even with the lami feeds, some are quite high. 

When introducing the oil to the feed you need to do it very gradualy.  Start off with a teaspoon full and increase by a teaspoon full a day till you reach the required amount.  It can take up to a month to build up to the point where the oil will help.  This is for 2 reasons, firstly because you don't want to upset the horses digestion and 2, because oil is not very tasty!

Horses often need their taste buds re-educating.  If they are used to a molassed cerial mix or nuts they have to learn to taste the feed again, not the sugar.

There are comercial feeds with high oil content... but watch the starch and sugars.
Baileys do an oil product called Outshine, but it is EXPENSIVE.  However, most horses find it very palitable so it can be a good way of quickly upping the quantity of fat in the diet, then wean them off it and repalce it with more oil.
Saracen Re-lieve is good, but you have to add extra oil.
Dodson and Horrel do a Sugar starch intolerance mix, but again, you need to add oil.
Unmolassed sugar beet, like speedy beet is good base for oil or to bulk out the feed.
Winergy Equilibrium Growth is suitable, but again you must add extra oil.

All these are well and good, but it would cost a fortune for me to feed them to my Shire!


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## Leonie (14 November 2007)

2 pints of oil!!!
Well my 3yo is 16.3hh but fairly lean at the mo.  He's having a glug of oil at the moment and spitting it out everywhere!

Thanks so much for your posting.  I'll getting ringing about tomorrow for some corn oil.

As Louis is 3, he's not being exercised.  He is turned out 24/7 though.  Maybe I should start some ride &amp; lead with him.

Have you had any problems with your shire falling / losing control of his back end?


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## JLav (14 November 2007)

I've not heard of a vet saying a shiverer shouldn't be ridden as unlike other neurological problems it is less a proprioception/co-ordination problem and more of an involuntary reflex and spasm that causes the shiver to happen, as I understand it.
It may be worth checking with your vet as to whether he feels there are other neuro issues as well as the shiver with this horse that makes him feel that it's not wise to ride him.


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## YorkshireLass (14 November 2007)

I strongly advise you to discuss all this with your Vet and get her/him to get in touch with Dr Valentine, that way your Vet can design a diet and exercise routine based upon the latest research to suit your horse and monitor selenium levels.


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## JenHunt (15 November 2007)

you really shouldn't add more than 100g oil per 100kg of body weight to a diet as liquid oils or fat, you'll cause diarrhoea. full fat soya is an excellent (cheaper) alternative to outshine, similar sort of high oil, low starch content, just unmineralised so you need to make sure he's getting all the vits and mins from his other feed. 

there's 2 types of shivering - one caused by PSSM (poly saccharide storage myopathy) also known as EPSM which is to do with how your horse stores sugars in his muscles and is more common in arabs, TB and standardbreds than anything else, with 2yo fillies most at risk. this can be controlled by careful feeding, high oil, low sugar and low starch. it may take up to 8 weeks at full feeding rates before you notice a difference, as the horse's body needs to learn to adapt to using fats as the primary energy source. you cannot cut out starch/sugar completely tho, they still need some for other processes in the body.

the other type is caused by physical trauma or growth problems,  like a slipped disc, kissing spine, poor conformation. this is the form where you are more likely to get loss of control over the back end, and where riding becomes dangerous. this is also known as wobbler syndrome when it appears to affect the whole body. you would need x-rays/scans etc to confirm this diagnosis.

like YorkshireLass said - work with your vet.


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## princesscleo (27 May 2008)

Hi.  Has any1 got any advice on wobblers syndrome??  my 3 yo welsh section D has just been diagnosed with it.  I am at my wits end :-(


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## lmihalcik (9 December 2008)

Hello.
I have a 12yo Dutch/TB mare. She has Shivers. She has always been very hard to work with behind so I suspect she has always had it. I bought her as a 2yo.

Over the years, she has worked well for a while, then gets inexplicably sore and short behind...not terrible, but not working as nicely as she could. Last year she began deteriorating badly. Muscle spasm in the loins, total inablity to back, I was unable to even pick her hind feet. I really thought it was the end of the road for her.

I had already had her on a low starch diet, but I went to new extremes. 5 months later, she is working better then ever. I am still amazed after every ride.  She is still touchy about having the hind feet picked, but is much better then she has been in a few years.  Overall, she is far more elastic and happy under saddle then she has ever been. Here is her feed regime. I have tweaked and found that this works best for her. I am in the US, so the feeds here are probably different. I hope this helps.
She gets this AM and PM
1 lbs of high protein low calcium feed.
2 lbs of Purina Wellsolve
5 oz of rice bran oil (best results with this vs canolla or corn)
.5 oz of ground flax seed
1/2 scoop recovery eq
6 grams of Acetyl L Cartinine
6 grams of Magnesium Oxide
low calcium multi vitamin supplement.

Free choice grass hay all day, 2 flakes perennial peanut hay at night. 

Our hay is high in Calcium. I try to keep any additional Calcium down as a lot of extra Calcium makes her worse. I add the Magnesium as it definitely helps the symtoms and helps the Magesium Calcium ratio/


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## Eventz30 (31 March 2011)

I have just been reading this thread with great interest and concern as my 2 going on 3yo is exhibiting possible signs as of the am and on speaking to my vet this afternoon he mentioned shivers as a possibility but we will know more in the next week by whether there is any progression in the symptoms.  He was totally fine last night then this am I have gone to see to him and he was acting strangely in his right hind. Lifting it beneath him and it was trembling then not seeming able to bend it and like it was stuck then kicking it out behind him all of a sudden.... 

I noticed Baileys Outshine which we were feeding at £38 a bag!  but we have recently changed to D&H Build and Glow which is similar but granted the ingrediants do differ a little but same idea and £18 a bag!

I am relieved to read horses can live a life and successful career competing with shivers.  At this time I dont know if thats what we are up against and I sincerely hope not as I have already had one three year old damage its self beyond a career in eventing and it would be sad to have another youngster with injury/disease before we had even got him out to show in hand


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## RolyPolyPony (31 March 2011)

My horses is a shiverer.  He's had it for a majority of his life and was a VERY sucessful eventer.  I also know of another horse who has shivers and is very much in full ridden work.


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## horsefodder (10 June 2012)

princesscleo said:



			Hi.  Has any1 got any advice on wobblers syndrome??  my 3 yo welsh section D has just been diagnosed with it.  I am at my wits end :-(
		
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Hi, sorry to hear about your horse, I work with one thats had it 6 months now, we have had tests, examinations, xrays, and unfortunatly all we can do is wait, either it will get better or it wont, the mare we have has good days and bad, sorry I dont have any good news for you


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## npage123 (10 June 2012)

You've had some great advice already.  

I've done a quick search on google and found this article:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/41582.html

and if you've got time on your hands:

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/shivers/home.html


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## applecart14 (11 June 2012)

Leonie said:



			I've had an Osteopath &amp; vet take a look at him, they both commented about not riding as neurological problems can mean they loose co-ordination and sometimes fall / lose control of their back end - has this happened to anyone?
		
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Are you sure they said he was a Shiverer and not a Wobbler?  If he has wobblers then he will have lack of co-ordination and can fall over when ridden/led and are extremely dangerous as in the case of my ten year old who was pts on H&S grounds.  Go back and ask them both for clarification.  If your horse is a wobbler you need to get him referred for xrays of his neck to ascertain the amount of damage and whether this horse is a candidate for possible surgery or not.


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## applecart14 (11 June 2012)

princesscleo said:



			Hi.  Has any1 got any advice on wobblers syndrome??  my 3 yo welsh section D has just been diagnosed with it.  I am at my wits end :-(
		
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I have PM'd you.


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