# 18,000 "useless" horses in Ireland



## FairyLights (7 January 2014)

Irish newspaper article. 18,000 horses with no monetary value and no one wants them apparently. will try to post the link.


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## FairyLights (7 January 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/vanah.horses


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## Molasses (7 January 2014)

Think how many useless dogs there are!
i mean mine won't even herd sheep, ridiculous. 
At least double that figure i should think

next media frenzy - "Useless dogs, ireland's full of them"


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## FairyLights (7 January 2014)

its not flippant!Its a seroius article there are 18,000 horses with no monetry value and the farmers and breeders dont want then and many are in danger of being dumped and starving to death. the rescue agencies cant cope. its a very intersting article giving a lot of food for thought.


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## Alec Swan (7 January 2014)

Horsesforever1 said:



			........ its a very intersting article giving a lot of food for thought.
		
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I agree,  and food for those who go without too.  Not a flippant response,  I'm serious.  Let those who govern us,  remove the pointless restrictions,  and put these poor creatures to A.  a humane end & B. give them some purpose.

Alec.


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## WelshD (7 January 2014)

Until the costs to PTS and to geld are bought right down or even offered free as a one off incentive drive in the UK and Ireland things will continue to get worse I think


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## FairyLights (7 January 2014)

AlecI agree wholeheartedly. WelshD, I agree also such a problem, but as one Irish MP said, why should tax payers money be spent in PTS [or gelding for that ,matter]. These animals need to find a monetry value and getting them in to the food chain is one way of doing it.


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## Goldenstar (7 January 2014)

Horsesforever1 said:



			AlecI agree wholeheartedly. WelshD, I agree also such a problem, but as one Irish MP said, why should tax payers money be spent in PTS [or gelding for that ,matter]. These animals need to find a monetry value and getting them in to the food chain is one way of doing it.
		
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18000 horses different ages incomplete histories from god know where medicated with god knows what I really don't think the food chain is the answer .


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## Exploding Chestnuts (7 January 2014)

I'm  not sure why they can't go in to pet food.


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## MadBlackLab (7 January 2014)

and this is why a cull is required


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## MiniMilton (7 January 2014)

Horses ARE essentially being culled here (in Ireland). 80 % of horses siezed by the county councils have been PTS. For the owners to reclaim the horses they must produce a passport (most of which don't have) and have a registered equine premises number for where they horses will be kept. Then of course there is also a release fee. I dont have the exact figure but last week there was an article in the paper stating that about 2700 horses were PTS by county councils in the past year. This was not due to health issues, simply unregistered horses remaining unclaimed after 5 days in the pound.

A cull on its own will not solve the problem. A compulsory castration policy and stallion licensing needs to be implemented to prevent this issue continuing into the future. Many responsible breeders have stopped breeding their quality animals due the recession, whilst irresponsible owners continue to breed poor quality animals. We need to stop the poor quality animals from being bred.


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## MadBlackLab (7 January 2014)

MiniBlitzen said:



			Horses ARE essentially being culled here (in Ireland). 80 % of horses siezed by the county councils have been PTS. For the owners to reclaim the horses they must produce a passport (most of which don't have) and have a registered equine premises number for where they horses will be kept. Then of course there is also a release fee. I dont have the exact figure but last week there was an article in the paper stating that about 2700 horses were PTS by county councils in the past year. This was not due to health issues, simply unregistered horses remaining unclaimed after 5 days in the pound.

A cull on its own will not solve the problem. A compulsory castration policy and stallion licensing needs to be implemented to prevent this issue continuing into the future. Many responsible breeders have stopped breeding their quality animals due the recession, whilst irresponsible owners continue to breed poor quality animals. We need to stop the poor quality animals from being bred.
		
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glad some course of action has been taken but yes stopping the breeding first is the key


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## stormox (7 January 2014)

And how many more in Scotland /England and especially Wales to add to that? And you still get 'rescue societys' saving them from the 'meat man' and knackers yards.


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## MadBlackLab (7 January 2014)

stormox said:



			And how many more in Scotland /England and especially Wales to add to that? And you still get 'rescue societys' saving them from the 'meat man' and knackers yards.
		
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when to be honest might be the best place for them as societies are becoming full. IMHO I think people rely too much on rescue centres to pick up the pieces


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## Echo Bravo (7 January 2014)

They should bring back the Stallion Licence back, like they use to have years ago.


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## Echo Bravo (7 January 2014)

And meant to say if you had a stallion without a licence you get a heavy fine. And an even heavier one if you bred from it.


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## Spook (7 January 2014)

18,000 is a drop in the ocean..... my money is on there being far, far more..... We should be eating them.

When there is a value in them the welfare issues will largely disappear .

They have no value because there is no horsemeat trade.......simples.com


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## Rosiejazzandpia (7 January 2014)

I think there are far more. . . My uncle has a farm in Ireland, he has two ponies already for his kids and in the past year he has had 21 horses dumped on his land. 6 were dead :'(


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## Alec Swan (7 January 2014)

Spook said:



			18,000 is a drop in the ocean..... my money is on there being far, far more..... We should be eating them.

When there is a value in them the welfare issues will largely disappear .

They have no value because there is no horsemeat trade.......simples.com
		
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Common sense is gathering momentum.  Well said.

Alec.


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## Hairy Old Cob (7 January 2014)

Maria13 said:



			I think there are far more. . . My uncle has a farm in Ireland, he has two ponies already for his kids and in the past year he has had 21 horses dumped on his land. 6 were dead :'(
		
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Sorry but with thousands  horses being neglected left to starve drown get run into and be dumped dead, in all parts of the British Isles it is time action was taken to end the suffering of these Poor worthless creatures their should be cull and proper enforced passports and Stallion licences re-introduced to cover ALL People including all parts of the traveling and Romany  communities with heavy fines/imprisonment/ seizing possessions  and life time bans introduced for people who refuse to comply. All the horse welfare charities are stuffed full with horses treading mud, most of which would be better and kinder for them to be PTS.


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## Alec Swan (7 January 2014)

Hairy Old Cob said:



			...... and Stallion licences re-introduced to cover ALL People including all parts of the traveling and Romany  communities ........
		
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What,  and interfere with their engrained heritage,  customs and traditions?  Didn't you realise that they have rights which are denied to the rest of us?  Come along now,  try and keep up!!

Alec.


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## ExmoorHunter (7 January 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			Common sense is gathering momentum.  Well said.

Alec.
		
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I wish it was, but it will take a lot more deaths for a cull to happen.  Charities need to push this as the only option for low value animals.  Even now, I have received a "begging letter" from Redwings which doesn't even touch on the subject.  It's just SAVE, SAVE, SAVE.    It is unsustainable and will get worse.

Unfortunately, the market has dictated that the quality breeders leave mares empty whilst low value horses are allowed to continue to breed just making the problem worse. 

There is a desperate need to find a market for the low value animals, including young animals bred on the moors which have no breeding value, although the herd is an essential part of the infrastructure.

The best option must be a market for them and, since the leisure/riding market is very limited, it must be for meat.

There are probably quite a number of people who would welcome good meat knowing where it came from.


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## MadBlackLab (7 January 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			What,  and interfere with their engrained heritage,  customs and traditions?  Didn't you realise that they have rights which are denied to the rest of us?  Come along now,  try and keep up!!

Alec.
		
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Agree and plus they get away with so much already they will with this too and they are the biggest culprits to the over-breeding and dumping


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## Exploding Chestnuts (7 January 2014)

ExmoorHunter said:



			There are probably quite a number of people who would welcome good meat knowing where it came from.
		
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We have had this debate before: the starving and the neglected  are not suitable for inclusion in the human food chain.


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## ExmoorHunter (7 January 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			We have had this debate before: the starving and the neglected  are not suitable for inclusion in the human food chain.
		
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Then there is a need for a cull?


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## maccachic (7 January 2014)

By bringing in rules and regs do you really think the ferals who are mistreating their animals will really clean up their acts?  All you do is punish the law abiding citizens.  Maybe give authorities more control and get animals removed and rehomed / PTS sooner rather than later.


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## stormox (7 January 2014)

Hairy Old Cob - when did they have stallion licences? Theres always been plenty of unregistered stallions around- Ive never heard of people not being allowed to keep a stallion, or HAVING to use a liscensed stallion, and  Ive been in horses a very long time!


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## millikins (7 January 2014)

I agree the human food chain is not the answer, certainly not as a short term solution to the current crisis. But unappealing as it sounds, could low quality animals be culled, rendered and used as fertilizer? I feel heartless typing it thinking of my much loved fatties but may be a suitable use?


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## Alec Swan (7 January 2014)

The simple answer to the animal which has no identifying chip is that it becomes public property,  I'd have thought,  and that would apply to all those animals which are being fly grazed on land where they have no right to be. 

Public Property?  They can then be sold for slaughter,  and the meagre funds can go in to the public coffers.  Job Done.

Alec.


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## Spook (8 January 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			We have had this debate before: the starving and the neglected  are not suitable for inclusion in the human food chain.
		
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If there was an open and transparent market for horsemeat with properly regulated slaughterhouses, there would be virtually no starving nor neglected horses for the charities to deal with due to the animals having a goodish value..... do remember there is a world shortage of meat.

But will the charities want to loose their colossal income in the name of welfare?????? I doubt it, they have vast numbers of salaried people raising money to keep them in work!!!!!! It's a VICIOUS circle being perpetuated for financial gain.


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## MadBlackLab (8 January 2014)

Spook said:



			If there was an open and transparent market for horsemeat with properly regulated slaughterhouses, there would be virtually no starving nor neglected horses for the charities to deal with due to the animals having a goodish value..... do remember there is a world shortage of meat.

But will the charities want to loose their colossal income in the name of welfare?????? I doubt it, they have vast numbers of salaried people raising money to keep them in work!!!!!! It's a VICIOUS circle being perpetuated for financial gain.
		
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money is the route of all evil


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## MiniMilton (8 January 2014)

Spook said:



			But will the charities want to loose their colossal income in the name of welfare?????? I doubt it, they have vast numbers of salaried people raising money to keep them in work!!!!!!
		
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This is a bit of a sweeping statement. The 3 equine rescue charities that I support are run on a voluntary basis. Not one person is paid for their work.


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## Adopter (8 January 2014)

Spook said:



			If there was an open and transparent market for horsemeat with properly regulated slaughterhouses, there would be virtually no starving nor neglected horses for the charities to deal with due to the animals having a goodish value..... do remember there is a world shortage of meat.

But will the charities want to loose their colossal income in the name of welfare?????? I doubt it, they have vast numbers of salaried people raising money to keep them in work!!!!!! It's a VICIOUS circle being perpetuated for financial gain.
		
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Well for a start, WHW, do not only work in this country, they help teach people in under developed countries to care for their animals, train blacksmiths, provide vet advice, so they can help both the animals and people.  
Before the current crisis Rehoming charities used to help in cases where people for whatever reason (illness, death) could no longer keep their animals, and there will always sadly be people who neglect their animals, so there will always be a need for a safety net.


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## Hairy Old Cob (8 January 2014)

stormox said:



			Hairy Old Cob - when did they have stallion licences? Theres always been plenty of unregistered stallions around- Ive never heard of people not being allowed to keep a stallion, or HAVING to use a liscensed stallion, and  Ive been in horses a very long time!
		
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Showing my Age here and Sorry Alec I will try to keep up must be an age thing again.
I am all for a transparent regulated meat trade but once again their is a certain community who will endeavor  to try to  get around all rules and regulations the pet food trade would be better than nothing which I am sure can all ready take the poorer cases as class 2 foodstuffs. The authorities need to be given sweeping powers to be able to seize and PTS it is pointless giving the horse back to be tethered somewhere else that is probably even more unsuitable.


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## Spook (8 January 2014)

Adopter I think I said "virtually no neglected, starving horses" nor did I say there would not be a need for a safety net......... but the scale of the charities would only need to be miniscule by comparison with what we have at present, surely that would be positive from a welfare stance.

Only this morning I heard of 80 cobs offered for nothing to someone I know...... they have absolutely no value whatsoever .......nobody wants the spare horses. There are many thousands more too. Think what next winter will bring, this one has been mild and the grass has grown all season here. Imagine if it had been like last winter. Time to get sorted...... it ain't going to get any better so think on.......


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## Adopter (8 January 2014)

Spook said:



			Adopter I think I said "virtually no neglected, starving horses" nor did I say there would not be a need for a safety net......... but the scale of the charities would only need to be miniscule by comparison with what we have at present, surely that would be positive from a welfare stance.

Only this morning I heard of 80 cobs offered for nothing to someone I know...... they have absolutely no value whatsoever .......nobody wants the spare horses. There are many thousands more too. Think what next winter will bring, this one has been mild and the grass has grown all season here. Imagine if it had been like last winter. Time to get sorted...... it ain't going to get any better so think on.......
		
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Spook I did not agree with your comment on hard working charties, however I am not against horsemeat in a proper regulated system, and I agree that the present situation is bad  and unsustainable. 

 Just wish our MP'sand DEFRA would follow welsh example.


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## Alec Swan (8 January 2014)

Spook said:



			.......

But will the charities want to loose their colossal income in the name of welfare?????? I doubt it, they have vast numbers of salaried people raising money to keep them in work!!!!!! It's a VICIOUS circle being perpetuated for financial gain.
		
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More factual,  and simple common sense.  

Well said,  but I'd go further,  the bulk of those who direct these charities,  sadly,  haven't the faintest idea what they're on about,  and in truth,  they care very little.  The generating of income takes precedence over any claimed for moral or ethical stance.

Alec.


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## tristar (8 January 2014)

how about a thead entitled '18,000 useless horse owners in ireland', in my experience horses are rarely useless.


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## noodle_ (8 January 2014)

we need a cull....no question.



i was going to sell my filly....but given the fact youngsters are worth nothing no matter how nice id rather keep hold of her than her to end up in a fate abandoned at the side of the road 

id rather pts than sell a cheap horse with issues in this climate...




so cull or eat them.......


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## Love_my_Lurcher (9 January 2014)

I expect to be shot down for what I am about to say, but I want to say it anyway. While I am by no means a horse expert (although I do have some experience working with them and have horse owning friends), I am appalled by the pro-culling comments. There is a much bigger population problem that is NOT being addressed and that is the human population. The planet is struggling to cope with the sheer number of people and the environment is definitely suffering already. What with pollution and loss of greenbelt/forestry. Yet people are only too quick to advocate culls of other species and other means of populations control (such as sterilization and responsible breeding). I am not advocating the culling of humans myself (although it would be best for murderers and rapists), but I would gladly see a lot of people limited as to how many children they can have and forced sterilization if need be. 

Anyway, back to the topic. Why not provide jobs for those unwanted horses? They could perhaps be used for therapy. Such as helping people with autism and other conditions that makes socialising with other humans difficult. Or perhaps donated to the RDA. They could also be used in programs that help to rehabilitate offenders. I understand that these are popular in America (like in Pit Bulls and Parolees and the various Mustang programs). If money was spent on providing facilities for these things to happen, then surely the long term benefits would outweigh the cost of setting them up. Or could the councils set up their own riding centres? Whereby unwanted (but ridable) horses are used in lessons at say a cheaper cost than regular riding centres. Could the equestrian sport bodies or sporting bodies in general help to fund this as it might inspire youngsters to take-up riding at a professional level? There must be better alternatives to killing them!


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## CorvusCorax (9 January 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			I would gladly see a lot of people limited as to how many children they can have and forced sterilization if need be.
		
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Sure China does that and they're getting a real hammering on another thread on this board!!

Your idea is really nice but we don't live in a world where no animals will ever die, sadly. Do you really think it is feasible to find jobs for 18,000 horses?


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## madlady (9 January 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			I expect to be shot down for what I am about to say, but I want to say it anyway. While I am by no means a horse expert (although I do have some experience working with them and have horse owning friends), I am appalled by the pro-culling comments. There is a much bigger population problem that is NOT being addressed and that is the human population. The planet is struggling to cope with the sheer number of people and the environment is definitely suffering already. What with pollution and loss of greenbelt/forestry. Yet people are only too quick to advocate culls of other species and other means of populations control (such as sterilization and responsible breeding). I am not advocating the culling of humans myself (although it would be best for murderers and rapists), but I would gladly see a lot of people limited as to how many children they can have and forced sterilization if need be. 

Anyway, back to the topic. Why not provide jobs for those unwanted horses? They could perhaps be used for therapy. Such as helping people with autism and other conditions that makes socialising with other humans difficult. Or perhaps donated to the RDA. They could also be used in programs that help to rehabilitate offenders. I understand that these are popular in America (like in Pit Bulls and Parolees and the various Mustang programs). If money was spent on providing facilities for these things to happen, then surely the long term benefits would outweigh the cost of setting them up. Or could the councils set up their own riding centres? Whereby unwanted (but ridable) horses are used in lessons at say a cheaper cost than regular riding centres. Could the equestrian sport bodies or sporting bodies in general help to fund this as it might inspire youngsters to take-up riding at a professional level? There must be better alternatives to killing them!
		
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I totally agree with your comments about reducing the human race and that is part of the reason why I don't agree with certain medical practices because IMO it is overiding nature and nature (when left alone) will naturally cull via disease etc but humans now seem to be exempt to things like this.

On the subject of the horses however then yes there does need to be a cull - there are just not enough homes for the amount of horses.

Personally I do not see any issue with horses being used for meat if it's done properly, why shouldn't horse meat be eaten in this country?  Horses were eaten during the war.


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## amandap (9 January 2014)

Too many breeding for little money now they are completely worthless and people are so stretched financially paying off the Banker and Builders debt there is a huge crisis!

It's been brewing for years, horses are left to breed for pin money, castration costs money so is rarely done, the back door to the food chain is more or less closed so horses are dumped and left to starve. I doubt many will have had any drugs!


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## MiniMilton (9 January 2014)

tristar said:



			how about a thead entitled '18,000 useless horse owners in ireland', in my experience horses are rarely useless.
		
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Yes, one mans trash is another mans treasure. Some of these "useless" horses are probably unhanded unbroken cobs. Many of which would probably make smashing hunters, fun all rounders, safe family horses or riding school ponies. People breed horses without the skill or knowledge to produce them. Others are just too damn lazy to bother doing something with them. Walk into any low standard sales ring. Some of the horses haven't even seen a dandy brush and have brought half the field with them. Do the owners really expect to get a sale?

Yes some of the animals are of such a poor quality that soundness issues may prevent them from having a useful life. But most will be up to a working life. None of the safe ponies I learned to ride on were anything spectacular to look at.

The relentless breeding needs to stop, and people need to get off their backsides and teach the existing horses a few basics to give them a chance to find a home. And yes, i'm not in denial. Some need to be culled. But not all.


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## FairyLights (9 January 2014)

Bring back stallion licencing . £500 per year annual licence for any colt/stallion 2 yrs old and over whether used at stud or not. Would go a long way to helping with the overbreeding problem.


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## millikins (9 January 2014)

It still requires enforcing. And those who own most of these unwanted animals appear already to be above the law.


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## Spook (10 January 2014)

Millikins, sadly there are many, many "unwanted" horses in the hands of law abiding citizens too...... the blame, if there has to be one, for this crisis is far more complicated than that of the perception of irresponsible breeder. Indeed  I have had 3 horses shot in the last couple of years who in the normal scheme of things would have gone either for pet food or meat. Not every horse bred is up to standard, not even at the top end so to speak. Horses have become like dogs in the eyes of public.... all cuddley wuddley.... there is no wonder there are so many unsound, lame, bonkers horses on the go..... historically the "litter wastage" would have gone for meat or been shot anyway as they were useless and not fit for purpose, now they are useless and so bred from by the careing masses!!, Sorry but this is true.


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## millikins (10 January 2014)

Spook, you misunderstand me. I quite agree with you. I'm just saying that we have passports, they don't work: stallion licencing would be the same, unless the authorities who make the rules are prepared to enforce them it won't make a jot of difference. And since most of those breeding quantities of unwanted horses don't play by the rules now, what point would another new law be?


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## MotherOfChickens (10 January 2014)

Horsesforever1 said:



			Bring back stallion licencing . £500 per year annual licence for any colt/stallion 2 yrs old and over whether used at stud or not. Would go a long way to helping with the overbreeding problem.
		
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and the responsible breeders would pay and those who cannot be named would not. where does the money come to fund this and the policing of it as well? Not having a go, I want solutions as well!


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## Dry Rot (10 January 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			I'm  not sure why they can't go in to pet food.
		
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Can anyone answer that one? I, too, am curious.

I suspect it may be because pet owners are even more fussy about what their pets eat than what is on their own plates.

A friend of mine supplied rabbit meat to a major pet food manufacturer. That was fine until the manufacturer's x-ray equipment picked up a couple of pieces of lead shot in the meat. They promptly canceled the contract and my friend went bankrupt to the tune of half a million pounds!


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## Adopter (10 January 2014)

Spook said:



			Millikins, sadly there are many, many "unwanted" horses in the hands of law abiding citizens too...... the blame, if there has to be one, for this crisis is far more complicated than that of the perception of irresponsible breeder. Indeed  I have had 3 horses shot in the last couple of years who in the normal scheme of things would have gone either for pet food or meat. Not every horse bred is up to standard, not even at the top end so to speak. Horses have become like dogs in the eyes of public.... all cuddley wuddley.... there is no wonder there are so many unsound, lame, bonkers horses on the go..... historically the "litter wastage" would have gone for meat or been shot anyway as they were useless and not fit for purpose, now they are useless and so bred from by the careing masses!!, Sorry but this is true.
		
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I do agree that there seems to be far more ordinary people keeping horses and ponies on scraps of land than there were in the past, there are also too many people seem unable to take the responsible long view and pts unsuitable animals, they just want to pass the problem on for others to solve.

It is a very sad situation, just hope DEFRA will take some action soon.


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## Spook (10 January 2014)

millikins said:



			Spook, you misunderstand me. I quite agree with you. I'm just saying that we have passports, they don't work: stallion licencing would be the same, unless the authorities who make the rules are prepared to enforce them it won't make a jot of difference. And since most of those breeding quantities of unwanted horses don't play by the rules now, what point would another new law be?
		
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Ah sorry, I apologise.


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## amandap (10 January 2014)

http://www.thejournal.ie/horse-welfare-ireland-1252307-Jan2014/


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## Spook (10 January 2014)

amandap said:



http://www.thejournal.ie/horse-welfare-ireland-1252307-Jan2014/

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Thanks for posting that amanap.

Anyone know why a withdrawal period cannot be established for equines???? prior to slaughter.


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## amandap (10 January 2014)

Spook said:



			Anyone know why a withdrawal period cannot be established for equines???? prior to slaughter.
		
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Cost? No studies have been done re bute so it automatically falls into the never for human consumption bracket in my understanding.

Just found this re UK. I think there's a list on DEFRA I vaguely remember reading a while back. http://www.vetsforequinewelfare.org/prohibited-drugs.php

ps. I was wrong there have been studies on toxicology of bute re human consumption. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...elibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eve.12112/full


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## Love_my_Lurcher (10 January 2014)

Dry Rot said:



			Can anyone answer that one? I, too, am curious.

I suspect it may be because pet owners are even more fussy about what their pets eat than what is on their own plates.

A friend of mine supplied rabbit meat to a major pet food manufacturer. That was fine until the manufacturer's x-ray equipment picked up a couple of pieces of lead shot in the meat. They promptly canceled the contract and my friend went bankrupt to the tune of half a million pounds!
		
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To be honest I would not appreciate lead shot making it into my dogs' food. It might make them ill or worse. However, they could have simply rejected that batch of meat and continued with the contract. 

I believe people are fussier about pet food than their own food as sadly dogs, cats, etc have much shorter lifespans than us and a good quality diet might just help them live longer.


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## Spook (10 January 2014)

Very interesting..... so it seems that Bute is about the same as asprin!! Maybe those of you taking asprin for its benefit to the blood and its possible anti cancer properties should think again (here my tongue is firmly in my cheek)

Also it's surprising how many of the listed drugs are used on other species destined for meat. Of course prior to slaughter a fixed withdrawal period has to be observed.


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## Dry Rot (10 January 2014)

Just to return to the thread, doesn't the fact that there are 18,000 useless horses out there imply that there are 18,000 equally useless owners!!??


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## amandap (10 January 2014)

Dry Rot said:



			Just to return to the thread, doesn't the fact that there are 18,000 useless horses out there imply that there are 18,000 equally useless owners!!??
		
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Many have a lot more than one each. Lots of people breed horses here to supplement their incomes. Most families round me have a few cattle or horses or sheep...


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## MiniMilton (10 January 2014)

amandap said:



			Many have a lot more than one each. Lots of people breed horses here to supplement their incomes. Most families round me have a few cattle or horses or sheep...
		
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Good point. As an example, there was recently an ad up where a guy in Ireland was selling off 100 young connemara ponies that they bred. And another guy bred 180 miniatures, THEN realised that he had too many and was having trouble selling them off and had to get help from a rescue centre. A few more idiots like that and you suddenly have a huge number.


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## JanetGeorge (10 January 2014)

Dry Rot said:



			Just to return to the thread, doesn't the fact that there are 18,000 useless horses out there imply that there are 18,000 equally useless owners!!??
		
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Depends on what these owners are doing with their 'useless' horses!!  I have at least 5 of them - two retired geldings (aged 21 and 22), and 3 mares (between 20 and 25.)  The 25 year old (full TB) is to be put down next week because she is just not coping with winter, despite a lot of TLC.  The other 4 are in good health and I can't bring myself to have them PTS purely because they are 'useless' and costing me a lot! But I think an estimation of 18,000 'useless' horses in Ireland (or the UK for that matter) is low - there are a lot of reasons a horse is 'useless'!


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## ExmoorHunter (10 January 2014)

Perhaps the "useless" means abandoned and in poor health?


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## LaMooch (10 January 2014)

I haven't read all the posts but my question will be what is 18,000 'useless' horses? Is it 18,000 retired horses well looked after not doing but being field ornaments as JanetGeorge mentioned hers or 18,000 ABANDONED horses, neglected and not claimed?

They are many 'useless' horses in the UK including wild ones that have no use to us humans and even more neglected abandoned horses.

In my honest opinion the only way that cases of neglect and abandonment can be reduced is either using horses as a form of fielding human's. This can only be done if horse's are not vaccinated, wormed and given medication as probably mentioned it can not enter the food chain. However for this to be successful a cull of the current abandoned horse's then start afresh with introducing them into the food chain.

I'm sorry if anything I've typed has already been mentioned but as previously said I have not read all posts


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## amandap (10 January 2014)

ExmoorHunter said:



			Perhaps the "useless" means abandoned and in poor health?
		
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I think it means no value as no one wants them not even for slaughter now. Many are being abandoned and feeding them is perhaps seen as throwing money down the drain when there is no prospect of any return.

I believe many of these horses are just out in fields.

Households have been hit by a few new taxes, fodder prices are still high following last years crisis, meat scandal has closed the slaughter option...


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## FairyLights (11 January 2014)

it means horses no one wants including those who have bred them. it doesnt mean retired, companions, pets etc. its means surplus population which are unsaleable ands the owners dont want them.


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## Bertieb123 (11 January 2014)

I believe for horse to go into pet food it has to be fit for human consumption so if the not fit for human consumption box is ticked on passport for the reason of non permitted  drugs that would be why they not going for pet food as well as an owner doesn't want them to, I also wonder how many of these equines do not have a passport anyway as that would also limit what could be done with them, no reputable slaughterhouse would take them. Overbreeding has a lot to answer for and so does those who think it ok to dump a horse or pony on the side of the road or onto someone else or a 'charity'


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## Spook (11 January 2014)

..... And these "useless horses" are to a large extent bunging up the horse trade, people for what ever reason cannot get rid of unwanted horses to replace them with a wanted horse, thus the market has stagnated.


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## joy (11 January 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			They should bring back the Stallion Licence back, like they use to have years ago.
		
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I agree with this wholeheartedly.  My old boss had a superb showjumping stallion yet she dreaded every time the licensing man came round.  Geld it or shoot it.


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