# Yard have been negligent.



## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

What do I do: last week, I discovered that the yard staff were advised on second of January that a horse had strangles, they did not believe the horse owners, and the rest is history, I have a bill for a lot of money, and me and my horse have gone though hell. about half of the horses had some exposure and the total vet bill must be well over £10K. I do not know who made the decision to ignore  the horse owner, but what do I do now?
I am unable to move my horse, indeed I would not ask anyone to take him.
I can't sell him.
I can't loan him.
I have not told the farm owner of this new information
I have not told the farm manager of this new information
I have not told the yard manager..... of this new information.
I have told the vet who has been working for the farm and for me.
There is no reason for me to believe that I will be treated fairly, it has not happened to date and will not happen in the future.
I am willing to accept an ex-gratia payment, and go away. quietly, but I also feel that the others should also have their outgoings covered.


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## lexiedhb (20 April 2011)

Simply do not understand your post!


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## Damnation (20 April 2011)

I am with Lexiedhb - I got lost about halfway through, sorry!


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## Puppy (20 April 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Simply do not understand your post!
		
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I'm glad it's not just me...


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

OK, the yard allowed infective horses to mix with all the other horses in the  yard, is that clearer?


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## Equinimity (20 April 2011)

I'm confused! Can you explain yourself a bit better


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## Damnation (20 April 2011)

Yes it is thank you 
And I believe you want reimbursement? Perhaps going to CAB and seeing what they can tell you?


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## Tinypony (20 April 2011)

You've posted about this before haven't you?
Edited to say, yes you did post about this before and got lots of advice about insurance companies, CAB etc.  Your horse isn't insured, so that limits your options.  It's all been said on your other thread really.


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## horsey mad matt (20 April 2011)

me too i'm confused!!!!


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

My horse got strangles because the yard staff decided that in spite of an outbreak of strangles no action would be taken and anyone asking what was wrong with these sick horses would be told "nothing infectious"


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## Amymay (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			OK, the yard allowed infective horses to mix with all the other horses in the  yard, is that clearer?
		
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Chances are the horses were infected prior to the YO's being told of the infection.  And if they weren't then it would have been nigh on impossible to keep it from spreading.

Such is life I suppose, and it's very upsetting.  But I know of a very large yard near me that had a terrible outbreak a few years ago, and despite doing everything correctly could not prevent the spread.

It's the danger of keeping animals together I suppose - viruses will spread.....

Once the virus has run its course you will be able to get out and about and even sell your horse should you wish.


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## horsey mad matt (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			My horse got strangles because the yard staff decided that in spite of an outbreak of strangles no action would be taken and anyone asking what was wrong with these sick horses would be told "nothing infectious"
		
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ohright that makes sense now!!!


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

I don't know how to find my previous posts, but it must have been before I had the information that they had been told about the disease in a particular horse.
These people allowed my horse to get this disease, they think they can shrug their shoulders and move on, but I am not going to capitulate. They have two weaknesses, cash and publicity, I know this sounds like I want to make money out of it, I wanted my horse to have a lovely natural life, and that has not happened, and the problem is ongoing.he is in a small yard without friends to play with indefinely.

Why should I pay for negligence by the yard, why should they not pay for the result of their action (in this case lack of action)


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## Amymay (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I don't know how to find my previous posts, but it must have been before I had the information that they had been told about the disease in a particular horse.
		
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http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=447771

There you go.


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## Fuzznugget (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I don't know how to find my previous posts, but it must have been before I had the information that they had been told about the disease in a particular horse.
		
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Your previous posts should be here: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/search.php?searchid=2801174


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## luckilotti (20 April 2011)

I'm a YO and IMO it's not on if they knew what was going on - but... are you sure the YO knew the horse had strangles and its not the owner of the horse which brought it onto the yard who has failed to tell people, paniced when other horses contracted it and then said that the YO knew??

TBH, if your horse isnt insured, i imagine it could cost you quite a bit to prove that the yard owners knowingly let the infected horse mix with the others and to take it to court.  

I am not familiar with exactly what happened in your situation - but what did you do when you found out about the horse having strangles?  Did you go to the YO and insit the infected horse was put in isolation?  If not, then i hate to say but it could maybe be argued that you accepted the fact your horse could contract it etc?  

When i was a teenager a horse came to the riding school i was a livery at which had strangles, she was put into isolation straight away (well, her stable had jumps all around it but they didnt have an isolation box).  My horses could easily have contracted it as the yard staff fed in the morning etc (i wasnt convinced that they were changing clothing inbetween doing the infect mare etc) anyway, if my horse had contracted it, TBH i would have just accepted it as this do get spread around.  I dare it could have been argued that the yard i was at didnt do enough to prevent others getting it but no-where is perfect.  

I really feel for you as it sounds as if you have had a rough ride but i doubt there is much you can do easily - i am making a load of assumptions here btw as i dont know the full facts of what happened in your case!


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## Tinypony (20 April 2011)

The advice still stands Op, if you want to pursue this you will need to get some sort of legal advice.  Most would do that through their insurance company.  You could check in case your household insurance policy covers you.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

No, the yard were aware that a new horse came in to the yard from a dealer, this horse was ill within 24 hours, complaints were made, nothing was done. The isolation procedures were disregarded. There is no way that the yard is anything other than negligent, it is not an act of God


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## FairyLights (20 April 2011)

at a yard near to me thare was a strangles outbreak a few years ago. the yard is a large yard incorporating a riding school and they host Pony club and also have fortnightly shows all open to the general public so lots of people coming and going. The vets never shut the place down,although one of the vets told me that if one more horse went down with stranges they would close the place until the outbreak was over. The point being that the vets felt that dispite a lot of visiting horses there were not enough infected animals to put the whole county at risk. Horses on yards will get disease from time to time,they only way to avoid this is to keep yourown horse isolated on your own plac and never hack out or go anywhere,ever. Thats no life.  Vets bills and horses are facts of life,get over it,move on,today is a new day.


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## Amymay (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			No, the yard were aware that a new horse came in to the yard from a dealer, this horse was ill within 24 hours, complaints were made, nothing was done. The isolation procedures were disregarded. There is no way that the yard is anything other than negligent, it is not an act of God
		
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There we are then, legal advice and court.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.


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## Damnation (20 April 2011)

What end would it come to? Fighting this? Except you being more out of pocket.
What is done is done and instead of wallowing you have to deal with it.
Can you guarentee that you horse would not have gotten strangles if the strangles case had been isolated?
If it were me I would be more concerned about my horse getting through it then the yards actions. Yes I would be annoyed  but I cannot see it being worth your while to dwell on it.


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## Damnation (20 April 2011)

Just read your above post. See if you can get legal advice.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

Streptococcus Equi is a bacterial infection and is spread by contact ie contagious,,,,,,,.... water buckets, haynets, touch of horse or clothing, if the yard had told me the truth I would not have let my horse anywhere near another horse or person and I would not have handled any horses.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

I have done the nursing thing, did all the biosecurity and now my horse is stuck in a bog, but he could be in a nice little field which would allow my to hack him down to the beach and we  could resume our life together.


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## pip6 (20 April 2011)

Not very nice, but infections happen & are very hard to contain.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

No, the disease takes from 4/5 days to 14 days to incubate, my horse got the disease well outside this period.


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

Does he still have strangles then?why is he in a boggy field? Where on earth in the world are you as we have not had rain for weeks so not mud!


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## luckilotti (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			No, the yard were aware that a new horse came in to the yard from a dealer, this horse was ill within 24 hours, complaints were made, nothing was done. The isolation procedures were disregarded.
		
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Right, but regardless of where the horse came from - were they told 'this horse has come from a yard that has/has just had strangles'  or 'this horse has strangles'.
The fact it came from a dealers yard and was ill shortly after means nothing TBH.  

At what point did it become apparent that it was infact strangles rather than just a bit of a bug?  

How was the horse transported to the yard?  Could it have picked it up via there hence the transporters either hadnt maintained a clean trailer/box or passed on info that they had moved a ill horse?

Did they isolate the horse in any way?   if so how?

I must admit there was another yard local to me who had a strangles outbreak years ago, they were also a competition centre and i know it was over Christmas/New Year and they still continued to hold big shows - it wasnt until a few of the big named jumpers backed out of a BSJA event that it became public knowledge - the yard was in a small area hence it always amazed us all locally that they still held the events.

I think you need to cover all aspects of it, so that if/when you do seek legal advice you have everything there with you as it will help to reduce legal fees if you go fully armed!  Are you a member of the BHS?  maybe you can call their legal helpline?

how many horses contratced it in the end?  if there are a few of you, maybe if you took legal action together you would have a better case?


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## Amymay (20 April 2011)

charlie76 said:



			Does he still have strangles then?why is he in a boggy field? Where on earth in the world are you as we have not had rain for weeks so not mud!
		
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Yes, I was wondering this.

But clearly OP - if you were this concerned then surely you would have taken some legal advice by now??

Hopefully you've resumed paying your livery?


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

there are three or maybe four levels of management, I do not know who decided to cover up, was it the Farm owner , a peer of the realm, was it his manager, a man who has something of the night about him, or the yard manager, or the person in charge of operations on the day they were advised of the problem.


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## Amymay (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			there are three or maybe four levels of management, I do not know who decided to cover up, was it the Farm owner , a peer of the realm, was it his manager, a man who has something of the night about him, or the yard manager, or the person in charge of operations on the day they were advised of the problem.
		
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You're rambling - and it all sound like a crock to me.

Sorry.................................


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

strangles, also, isn't that bad. A pain to deal with I agree but once its diagnoised, all you can do is keep them fed, watered and happy and clear up the snot and abcesses. Usually the vet will not adminster anitibiotics as it brings on ******* strangles. When we had an outbreak yrs ago the vet really didn't do much, we looked after them.


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## Hippona (20 April 2011)

I was on a yard that got strangles...despite all proceedures the horses still came down with it...about half of them anyway. Just as we though it was all clear- another would start. It went on for months. Strangles isn't notifiable- you can't shut a yard down as such- just advise the YO and liveries.

Its life I'm afraid- I had 2 horses at the time that needed triple swabbing to make sure they were clear.....no hacking out, no shows...it was crap. And expensive. But all the horses survived. Which was the main concern......


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

and even if you do notify the other liveries, chances are, by the time its noticed, the other horses have caught it if they were going to.
I am not sure why your original post states you can't sell, loan or move your horse? Did you want to then? If not, once he is clear...why can't you sell, loan or move him? He will recover.


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## Damnation (20 April 2011)

When were they informed the horse had strangles? Was it just a suspicion and they made an error of judgement and thought it was a paranoid owner? You know horse has just come from a dealer of course it will be a bit funny til it settles in.
Or was the horse swabbed, confirmed to have strangles then they were told? Because between the swabs and the results is about 4 days, in this time the disease could have already spread.
Either way it could be the YO covering up, perhaps not wanting to cause a panic until the results were in or the livery not being quick enough and it had spread anyway.
My other question is why did the livery not take it upon themselves to iscolate the horse and warn everybody not to touch their horse or have anything do to with it?!!!


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## CHH (20 April 2011)

MrsD,

What agreement do you have in place with your yard?

They do have a duty of care to all animals and people.

I'm fairly new so haven't read any previous post on this sorry, no idea how I would find it.

But basically, you would need proof of what has happened (I'm not saying you do or not have it just that you would need it).

Then you would need your terms of livery (all responsible liveries I assume issue this to their clients).

Seek out legal advice prior to anything else, if you are serious about recovering the funds you spent on vets and seeking some form of compensation then you need professional legal advice, not advice in a forum.

CAB are a good starter point, but in all  honesty, get a good equine solicitor and take it from there.

if you do, accept that potentially in the future you will need to move yards, given the conflict such action will incurr.


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## CHH (20 April 2011)

Sorry I mean to add.

I agree with damnation - even a suspected case should have been isolated, and correct procedures taken.

Had a horse on my yard been a 'suspect' case it would have isolated and precautions taken.

i used to be on a yard years ago that had a yard 2 miles away have an outbreak and we all took it serious, adhered to precaution measures and no horses broke out on our yard. 
However, anything showing any potential signs was isolated regardless!


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

I think you have got as much chance of getting any compenstation than fly to the moon TBH.You would have to prove the yard owner knew the horse had strangles, you would have to prove that you had not touch said horse. You would have to prove that your horse would not have got strangles anyway and you would have to prove it was covered up. Not an easy task IMO


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## Damnation (20 April 2011)

I have to agree with Charlie.
Part of the responsibility is with the owner of the horse. 
My friends horse came in a bit under the weather with a suspect lump under his chin. She then iscolated him, had him swabbed and informed the rest of the yard not to touch him, and she would not touch their horses. Thankfully it was not strangles but I don't think the YO or whoever is in charge is entirely to blame on this one I am afraid.

If I was the owner of the horse I would be telling everyone and iscolating the horse myself even if it was just suspected Strangles. I would feel awful if I hadn't taken proper precautions and someone else's horse caught it..


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

Horse1 came from a dealer, it was sick within 24 hours
Horse2 10 meters away got a disease a few days later, this was diagnosed by symptoms as strangles
These people told the yard manager, I do not know if the yard owner was informed but someone decided to shut up about it.
Horse3 was beside the second horse and so on.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

Thank you very much, it seem you are seeing the picture through my eyes, I will have to move yards, I do not have any money!
I cannot pay the yard and the vet, but also I would not pay £40 a week for my horse to stand in a tiny field. It is unreasonable.


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Thank you very much, it seem you are seeing the picture through my eyes, I will have to move yards, I do not have any money!
I cannot pay the yard and the vet, but also I would not pay £40 a week for my horse to stand in a tiny field. It is unreasonable.
		
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If this all happened back in January then I assume strangles is no longer on they yard?  So just move somewhere cheaper if you can't afford £40 a week.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

At this moment in time I can't sell him .... in order to pay the bills!
I can't loan him, he is in isolation.
I can't move him as I would not ask anyone to take him until the all clear.
Anyone who has had a horse with bad strangles should be aware that they will have to nurse him and suffer with him, anyone who says,,,, strangles, no problem has not suffered like me and my horse


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## hollyandivy123 (20 April 2011)

has your horse been swabbed as a carrier is this what you are trying to say? so until he is clear then you can't move him?


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

My horse is in isolation, strangles is not always a disease that passes in a few days, or weeks, in my case it is months.


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

If the horse was ok when it arrived and then became sick, how on earth was the yard to know he had strangles? By the time he had been installed for 24 hrs and the problem became apparent then it would have been too late to have stopped any other horse getting it. If the horses that got it had no physical contact with said ill horse or had not touched any buckets, troughs ect belonging to sick horse then the only way the other horses could have contracted the disease would have been from human transfer, in which case, unless your horse is dealt with by staff that may have touched the sick horse and then yours then its someone else that needs to take the blame.


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## Damnation (20 April 2011)

Why is he in iscolation. Did he get the disease too?


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2011)

hollyandivy123 said:



			has your horse been swabbed as a carrier is this what you are trying to say? so until he is clear then you can't move him?
		
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That's what it sounds like to me.  OPs horse must be a carrier to still have positive swabs 3 months after the initial outbreak.


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

hmm, as I said before, we had it, abcesses, snot the lot, we dealt with it. It went away. We made sure one person dealt with sick horses, had a change of clothes and a supply of Verkon E. It was not fun, but we coped. 
One word here- INSURANCE! Sorry but come on, don't winge about vets bills when you choose not to insure. That makes me mad!


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## Tinypony (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			No, the yard were aware that a new horse came in to the yard from a dealer, this horse was ill within 24 hours, complaints were made, nothing was done. The isolation procedures were disregarded. There is no way that the yard is anything other than negligent, it is not an act of God
		
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If the yard aren't offering you money as compensation and you want some, you will need to take legal action.  Most people would contact their insurance company for help at that point - nothing to do with acts of God, your insurance company would advise you if you wanted to sue for compensation.  You don't have any insurance on your horse, and you aren't a BHS Gold member.  Therefore, if you want to take action you will have to pay the costs yourself and hope to get them back in court.

I must admit, it's a tad frustrating to see you taking people through all this again.  Didn't you get the answers you wanted last time?


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

Absolutely sure that these people were genuine, in fact I thought they were naive when they told me the symptoms, having to feed and water a head heght etcetera, it was only last week that they happened to mention that they had told the yard manager that their vets had told them that the disease was strangles, unproven by testing, but all the symptoms pointed to it.


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## foxy1 (20 April 2011)

I agree that in some cases Strangles is absolutely horrific, if they had walked around my yard when we had it no-one would say it was merely an inconvienience!

Is your horse a carrier now or still struggling with the Strangles itself?


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## hollyandivy123 (20 April 2011)

so he is positive on a nasal swab then? or you are saying that he has a temperature, breathing problems?

each horse and person will be different to how they responed to a disease. some horses will have been in contact with strangles earlier on in life and will have the antibodies to the strep and then their second infection will have been shorter. 
for your horse to have a problem with strangles (unless a carrier) after nearly 4 months must indicate that there is  second problem with your pony and maybe its immune system.

and yes i have had a horse with strangles before you ask


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## Magicmillbrook (20 April 2011)

I feel very sorry for your situation.  I think if you tried to take legal action the only winner would be the solicitor.  I have no real advice to offer.  Perhaps other readers of your sad tale will take note that if you cant afford a big vet bill then make sure you are insured.

I hope your horse recovers soon


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## Damnation (20 April 2011)

You seem to be dodging my question. Did your horse catch the disease? Why didn't the Owners isolate the horses themselves and inform other liveries. I would of done, certainly.
Have any of these horses been swabbed?
I am sorry but the blame doesn't lie just with the YO.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

Obviously he got the disease, do you think I am moaning because I cant hack out for a few days!
Sorry,  but my horse has suffered dreadfully, I have had to attend day and night for weeks, my vet bills are only just started, at £400, we still have to knock him out, wash and test the gutteral pouch, then wait for some undefined period, then more knocking out and so on, until the vet is satidfied he is not a carrier, this could take another eight weeks., the best case scenario is three weeks, in the meantime I could have him in a nice field and hack him out in an area where no other horse goes. ,,,,,,, is this clearer?


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## MrsElle (20 April 2011)

Have the liveries all been swabbed and confirmed as strangles? You keep mentioning 'symptoms of strangles' but no mention of confirmation.

If the 'symptoms of strangles' haven't been confirmed as strangles you won't have a leg to stand on in court IMO.

You do sound very angry and upset and I know it is easier to sometimes find someone else to blame, but these things happen.  

Hope your lad gets better soon {{{hugs}}}


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

your beef( as we have the compensation thread) seems to be more with getting the bills paid than the horses illness itself. If your horse was insured you would not be in this situation. I do hope he is insured for at least public liabilty as if not, what would you do if he harmed some one. 
At some point an accident may happen where your horse needs vet treatment, mine got kicked, fractured radius, wasn't one of my horses, tough, it was an accident, almost £5k later on vets bills and he was healed. Because he was insured I could put my time and effort into getting him better, not considering selling him to pay the bills!


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Obviously he got the disease, do you think I am moaning because I cant hack out for a few days!
Sorry,  but my horse has suffered dreadfully, I have had to attend day and night for weeks, my vet bills are only just started, at £400, we still have to knock him out, wash and test the gutteral pouch, then wait for some undefined period, then more knocking out and so on, until the vet is satidfied he is not a carrier, this could take another eight weeks., the best case scenario is three weeks, in the meantime I could have him in a nice field and hack him out in an area where no other horse goes. ,,,,,,, is this clearer?
		
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So your horse does appear to be a carrier then?  I understand your frustration then.  Carriers can take months and in some unfortunate cases, years to throw a clear swab.  Had you ever had your horse swabbed prior to this outbreak on your yard?  If yours is the carrier, is it possible that your horse infected others on the yard?


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

I have worked professionally with horses for 50 years, and the last case of strangles I had to look after was when I was a teenager.
I have had ponies for the last 5 years, so I could have had them insured, which would have cost more than this will cost, as I am very experienced, and very pernickity,  and my horse is a happy hacker, I decided not to insure, but I did question the yard as to their qualifications and experience, also the isolation for new horses, which was 14 days in a stable for observation....... but they decided not to follow their own procedures, 
I asked them what was wrong with two horse which were sick and was told untruths, what more could I have done?
The yard allowed infected and infectious horses to mix and to  go out in fields and new horses were allowed in communal paddocks the first day they arrived in the yard.


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

I'm sorry but I can't agree with you. I too have many yrs of experience and I am a very fussy owner, however, I cannot see into the future and I do not have a bottomless pit of money. At no point in my life do I want to get myself into a situation where I have to consider selling my horse to be able to pay its vets bills. Imagine if he needed colic surgery for example! No amount of fussiness can foresee of stop that happening. My last horse cost me £1, he is still insured for vets bills.OR if you choose not to insure then you have to put money away in case of this sort of thing happening.


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## lubuzz (20 April 2011)

_


MrsD123 said:



			Absolutely sure that these people were genuine, in fact I thought they were naive when they told me the symptoms, having to feed and water a head heght etcetera, it was only last week that they happened to mention that they had told the yard manager that their vets had told them that the disease was strangles, unproven by testing, but all the symptoms pointed to it.
		
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_Unproven... well get it proved first before you ramble on about compensation, negligence and more vets bills. I can see that as the very first step i woudl make.

Secondly, yeh i feel for you, its not a nice thing to go through. BUT... you have a horse, with a duty of care to that horse. Regardless of how much the vets bills amount to.. just suck it up and pay it like everyone else has to when they ahve a sick horse. Horses get these viruses even when yards have the most stringent isolation procedures, its bad luck. Take it on the chin and move on. And stop whinging.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

No, my beef is that the yard have been negligent, and my horse is stuck on his own in a tiny field, there are other fields available but they want to keep him in this one. In some of the other fields I could take him out and let both of us enjoy life. I do not want to pay yard charges to keep my horse in a bog.
why should I?
I am struggling to pay the vet bills, but I feel that the yard should have made a move, especially in view of the information I have, do they really want to go to court?, I don't think so, but if they do I will have to call the farm manager, the farm owner , the yard manager and any staff involved, it does not cost much to go to small claims court, that is the idea of it, but I       do not see why , having been negligent, they should get away with it.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

Well suppose you vet bill was £8000 and you were insured for £3000, what would you say then?


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

if you have no insurance..... if you think the vets bills are big, wait until you pay the legal costs........esp if you lose.


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Well suppose you vet bill was £8000 and you were insured for £3000, what would you say then?
		
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I would be glad that its only £5k I have to pay and not £8k!


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## Tinypony (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			No, my beef is that the yard have been negligent, and my horse is stuck on his own in a tiny field, there are other fields available but they want to keep him in this one. In some of the other fields I could take him out and let both of us enjoy life. I do not want to pay yard charges to keep my horse in a bog.
why should I?
I am struggling to pay the vet bills, but I feel that the yard should have made a move, especially in view of the information I have, do they really want to go to court?, I don't think so, but if they do I will have to call the farm manager, the farm owner , the yard manager and any staff involved, it does not cost much to go to small claims court, that is the idea of it, but I       do not see why , having been negligent, they should get away with it.
		
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Then - take them to court.

p.s.  BHS Gold membership is about £50 per year and they provide a legal advice line.  It would also mean that you are covered in the event that you get sued because your horse has damaged someone or their horse.  
You say you are a "professional", what insurance do you have yourself?  Maybe you could get some advice through that policy.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

A second horse got the disease, the vet told the owner to tell the yard


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

What good will that do me and my horse?


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

why would the yard not know, I'm not sure how your yard runs but I am the manager of a yard, I would know IMMEDIATLEY if any horse on my yard had strangles, I we have over 90 horses on the premises.Bizarre, this post!


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

He is half way through 30 day isolation even though it is already 30 days since any symptoms.
After 30 day isolation they have to have extensive testing, swabbing is not definative.


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			What good will that do me and my horse?
		
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Now I am confused, I thought you wanted compensation, I thought you wanted the yard to take the blame? If not what do you want, to turn back time? Ain't gonna happen!


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## Scoutie (20 April 2011)

I have been on a yard with strangles, we all had suspicions where it came from but nothing could be proven, there was a new horse on the yard but many other were also out hunting/competing.  

The horses that became ill were a mixture if DIY (i.e. only looked after by their owner) and livery but a mixture of horses became ill even though precautions were taken.  Our horses went out in twos, when the strangles was at its peak there was always a paddock between them but even so it still spread.  It was also clear that the horses were contagious before they were ill as a result by the time it showed they could have already infected another animal.  It took six months for the all clear, each time we thought we were free another horse became ill (annoyingly at three weekly intervals not two as per the suggested incubation period).  

This is a long winded story to say it is almost impossible to apportion blame in this situation.  Whilst I also recommend that you take legal advice I don't think it will easy to show liability.  You will need to be supported by your vet as well as other witnesses to show that there has been negligence, if this does not happen I dont believe you have a case and you might just as well save your money.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

My pony is normally the healthiest beast in the yard, he normally has a wonderful shine on his coat and is highly treasured, by me, at the moment both he and I are a bit fed up, and he gets no grooming, as he is in a bog he is covered in mud.


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

umm, why is he not groomed? You can still groom a horse with strangles? Just don't use brushes on another horse or touch another horse.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

You are not aware about strangles testing, my horse has never been tested, it is not necessary, it is self evident, it is symptomatic, just as when you go to the doctor with a bacterial infection in your lungs, they don't test for the disease, they treat the symptoms.


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## Tinypony (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			My pony is normally the healthiest beast in the yard, he normally has a wonderful shine on his coat and is highly treasured, by me, at the moment both he and I are a bit fed up, and he gets no grooming, as he is in a bog he is covered in mud.
		
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OK, this is coming close to trolling now surely?  I'm gone.


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

Not true, when ours had strangles they took a swab. The ones with abcesses didn't get swabbed as they were most def sick enough not to need one. Does your horse have abcesses? If not, then they would need to test to see if it was strangles or just a cold.
If you went to the doctors with a bad enough lung infection that wouldn't go away then they most def would test- lung cancer for example.
I think I am wasting my time, you are much more clued up then any of us, prob was a waste of time posting. Maybe you should tell us where your horse is kept, then we can all avoid this terrible, uncaring, unproffesional place.


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## Gluttonforpunishment (20 April 2011)

Very strange and rambling post OP.

First you want compensation for alledged but unproven negligence, then you say you don't want to go to court because it won't do you any good.  Make your mind up.

I'm struggling to work out if you have a £400 vet bill or an £8000 one but either way you made the choice not to insure your horse / pony (again can't work out which) so ultimately if you could't afford the vets bills you have no business owning the animal.

You have stopped paying your livery and thus breached your contract - expect to find yourself evicted shortly with no one to blame but yourself.

If you have been professionally involved with horses for 50 years that puts in in your late 60's at least - certainly old enough to know a lot better!

Your animal and yard owner have my sympathies.


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## Booboos (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			At this moment in time I can't sell him .... in order to pay the bills!
I can't loan him, he is in isolation.
I can't move him as I would not ask anyone to take him until the all clear.
Anyone who has had a horse with bad strangles should be aware that they will have to nurse him and suffer with him, anyone who says,,,, strangles, no problem has not suffered like me and my horse
		
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Is the main problem here that you can't afford your livery and vet bills and would now like to sell your horse asap? This is what is sounds like to me, so let's consider this step by step.

No matter who is responsible you now have a horse which cannot be sold or loaned in the short term, so that's not an option.

Supposing the yard has been negligent you cannot stop livery payments in lieu of compensation. What you need to do is pay your livery bills, take legal advice and take them to court. If the court finds for you they will award you compensation, but be prepared to pay out money first as a negligence case will be complicated and you will almost certainly need solicitors, expert witnesses, etc.

Supposing the yard has been negligent you cannot refuse to pay your vet bills because your vet is not involved either way. If you win a negligence claim against your yard you may be compensated for vet bills already incurred, but you need to pay these now. So speak to your vet and arrange a payment plan that will allow you to pay them off.

Either way convincing total strangers on a forum that you are in the right is completely irrelevant and you're best spending your time talking to a lawyer and figuring out what your legal chances are of getting any money back and how much more money it would cost you to pursue a legal route.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

Anyway, I am not going to post any more, all I can say is that I am surprised that most peeps are on the side of the yard, so be it, but I can assure you if you to see your horse tomorrow and find he has been put in with a horse which has an infection, you will change your mind.


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## Hippona (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			No, my beef is that the yard have been negligent, and my horse is stuck on his own in a tiny field, there are other fields available but they want to keep him in this one. In some of the other fields I could take him out and let both of us enjoy life. I do not want to pay yard charges to keep my horse in a bog.
why should I?
I am struggling to pay the vet bills, but I feel that the yard should have made a move, especially in view of the information I have, do they really want to go to court?, I don't think so, but if they do I will have to call the farm manager, the farm owner , the yard manager and any staff involved, it does not cost much to go to small claims court, that is the idea of it, but I       do not see why , having been negligent, they should get away with it.
		
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Hmmm. You are saying the yard has been negligent for allowing strangles to spread. And yet you are pissed that he is being kept in isolation

You can't have it both ways.

ps...you actually have mud?


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2011)

Tinypony said:



			OK, this is coming close to trolling now surely?  I'm gone.
		
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I totally agree.  I thought it sounded like a troll post right from the beginning, and now I'm as convinced as you are.


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## Tinypony (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Anyway, I am not going to post any more, all I can say is that I am surprised that most peeps are on the side of the yard, so be it, but I can assure you if you to see your horse tomorrow and find he has been put in with a horse which has an infection, you will change your mind.
		
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Oh come on MrsD, act your age.  People aren't taking sides, they are trying to advise you.  Although sounding less and less sympathetic as you keep changing your tack and have now said you aren't even grooming your poor horse.

I think you are right not to post now, you have more important things to be doing.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

I made the case that no matter how much a horse was insured for, the vet bill could be greater, so I would still be in the same situation. 
The bill have only just started to come in, they could go on and on. In the meantime, although my horse is fit and well, he could still be a carrier, therefore has to be kept apart, but that does not mean he has to be stuck in a bog for months, there are areas where he could go and not meet any other horses. As to rambling, I       did not want to identify the yard, otherwise I could have been more specific.


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

Like grooming and insuring her horse! I'm off out now to find some mud,,,,,,,,


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## Magicmillbrook (20 April 2011)

Hmmm

I perhaps OP could be a candidate for this post

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=9580602#post9580602

I am sorry but your story does sound strange - your yard has put you in isolation and you are grumbling - I dont get it.  If you are that concerned you will want to leave the yard once your horse is clear.  So in that case why not go and see the yard owner, tell them what you think and ask if they will pay up - what have you got to loose .


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

Sorry, couldn't go after that comment. Your horse is fit and well, therefore showing no signs of strangles, (although you just said how he was no longer 'shiney') , you haven't had him swabbed so how on gods earth are you telling he has strangles??
Also, you are saying that a YO would not isolate a horse that did have syptoms but yours that does is isolated. I'm sorry but this is all codswallop! I think you need another hobby other than writing stories as you are naff at it!


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

I am pissed that he is being kept in one field which is not ideal, when there are other fields I could use that would allow me to hack out on mu own. This could go on for months, tests, tests test, some horses have tested negative but have still been kept in quarantine.


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## charlie76 (20 April 2011)

but then why are they not testing and isolating every healthy horse in the yard- why pick on yours? It makes no sense whatsoever.


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## jendie (20 April 2011)

See a solicitor. It may be that the yard has failed in their 'duty of care' and will be liable to cover your losses.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

I do not want to sell him, but all this hassle, months and months of it and no end in sight........
I cannot pay both the vet bill and the livery bill
I refuse to pay full livery charge for my horse to stand in a bog, i pay livery for use of a stable, grazing and hacking etc, I am not getting what I signed up to. If I pay these peeps any money that will mean they have "won" ie they were negligent but I have to pay...... as you will see from the previous posts most peeps think I am in the wrong, whereas I see that they lied to me, and now my horse and I have to suffer and to pay.


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## Hippona (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I am pissed that he is being kept in one field which is not ideal, when there are other fields I could use that would allow me to hack out on mu own. This could go on for months, tests, tests test, some horses have tested negative but have still been kept in quarantine.
		
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You should know that you shouldn't hack out an infected horse- or even an apparantly uninfected horse- from a yard that has strangles......you're no better than the people you are complaining about!

Don't you get it? Some of us have had horses on yards with strangles- you shouldn't allow horses to leave the yard even if you think you won't come into contact with another horse.
 So- suck it up. No hacking. No shows. Thats how it is.


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2011)

charlie76 said:



			but then why are they not testing and isolating every healthy horse in the yard- why pick on yours? It makes no sense whatsoever.
		
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Because all the others have probably come back with clear swabs and the OPs horse is the only one who is not throwing back clear results.  OP sounds annoyed that her horse is the only one showing signs of being a carrier and that's why it's the only horse on the yard still in isolation.  It sounds like the yard has not been negligent after all and that OP does not have a leg to stand on.  However OP, caution for not paying your livery bill.  The YO could take a lien on your horse and then that will be the end of your concerns over paying for anything.


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## Damnation (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			You are not aware about strangles testing, my horse has never been tested, it is not necessary, it is self evident, it is symptomatic, just as when you go to the doctor with a bacterial infection in your lungs, they don't test for the disease, they treat the symptoms.
		
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I am sorry but in this case you will not have aleg to stand on. It needs to be comfirmed by a vet before you get anywhere.
have the other liveries been swabbed.


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (20 April 2011)

What area of the country is the yard in? (don't say anything to identify the yard, as that's against HHO terms).


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## Tinypony (20 April 2011)

Blimey, this is going round in circles.  It would be worth scanning the whole thread before asking Op any questions.
She thinks that people think she is in the "wrong", whereas that isn't what has actually been said.  On a hiding to nothing is more accurate.
I still think Op is trolling.


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## fatpiggy (20 April 2011)

Frankly I think the OP needs to get over themselves. Has been working professionally with horses for 50 years (how old are they???) and only seen one case of strangles. Lucky you. The yards round my way have cases every single year and we all keep our heads down for weeks.  The OP claims the yard has been negligent - but so have they by not having insurance. As a happy hacker they would certainly need  public liability , but obviously they haven't got that either.  They complain about having to have gone down morning and evening for weeks. Hello, that's what I've been doing for the last 16 years.  Run up a vets bill?  Want to swap with me?  I fork out £300 + EVERY MONTH for the drugs my horse needs - she has cost me in excess of £30000 since she was diagnosed in 1998 and that is entirely out of MY pocket. The insurance only paid for the first 6 months treatment. At least the horse is out. Fancy mucking out twice daily and then having to burn all the infected bedding and scrubbing the stable down at the end of it all?  I've got around £100 worth of bedding in my stable.  They also need to heed the first rule of hygiene on yards - don't touch strange horses, especially if they are new to the yard.


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

Where I want to hack there are no horse.


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## ThePinkPony (20 April 2011)

You cant be absolutely certain of that.

And even though there may not be horses, the trail could be used by people walking their dogs who own horses themselves and could spread the disease.

and if that did happen then really, you would be worse than your yard..

To be honest like pps have said, you sound more bothered about blaming the yard than your poor horse. Why on earth have you not moved him into a different paddock-even just double taping off a section of a feild so no horse contact could happen but at least pony would be on better ground.


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## lubuzz (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Where I want to hack there are no horse.
		
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What on earth is this woman going on about now... 
Is it me on is she rambling incoherent posts that make no sense at all 

TROLL


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## Vixstar (20 April 2011)

lubuzz said:



			What on earth is this woman going on about now... 
Is it me on is she rambling incoherent posts that make no sense at all 

TROLL
		
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Agree!!

OP keeps on contradicting herself!  50yrs professional experience?!


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## Miss L Toe (20 April 2011)

I do not have any choice, the yard put him in this bog, I   can't  just move him


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## ThePinkPony (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I do not have any choice, the yard put him in this bog, I   can't  just move him
		
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I dont for a second believe that.

If that were me i would march straight into the office and demand my horse to be moved. and if they ummed and ahhed then I would invent a bloody good reason why to. Failing that i would inform them that tomorrow pony would be in feild X and they can bloody well swivel!

i mean, if its as bad as you say it is then it could do more damage than the strangles.

Maybe care less about the yard and more about your horses well being for a while!


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## Amymay (20 April 2011)

If you can't afford a 400 vet bill, then clearly you can't afford a horse - its quit simple really. And having had horses all your life you'd be more than aware of how quickly a bill can add up even for the most minor problem - let alone a serious one. And the timeliness also seem to be altering.

I'm not really sure of the point of this post to be honest, as your previous one gave you the advice you sought - ie get legal advice.


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## Amaranta (20 April 2011)

IF you are not a troll and by some stretch of the imagination ARE telling the truth, then you need to fess up to your own responsibilities, you have not insured your horse for vets bills etc and are therefore liable for any bills, you cannot pin the blame on anyone else but yourself. 

Bloody blame society makes me sick, when you have horses you need to make allowances for vets bills etc, seems to me you are whinging on about something that YOU could have avoided instead of blaming your yard, who, in all fairness seem to be trying to contain the situation, you moaned that they did not do enough BEFORE the disease was confirmed and now you are whinging on about not being able to hack out and the fact that your horse is in isolation!  Selfish selfish selfish!


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## ofcourseyoucan (20 April 2011)

wll its not gone on for months and months only since mid jan. you have not insured your horse. a vet bill of 400 is not expensive. he is in isolation splendid. you want to hack and spread any disease .. VERY NICE. hiow well was your horse prior to this .. sounds like his immune system was already compromised.  he hasnt been tested? why the f not if you are so concerned. Please take your yard to court.. i dont think you have a leg to stasnd on as youo keep contradicting your self. small claims might be cheap but by the time you have done the paperwork, paid the expert witnesses your bill will be huge. and with little chance of winning. these things happen , and yes it is hard on the horse but that is life. no reason not to brush your horse just cos he is on his own (whose negligent now? do you just wave to him from the fence?) you must be in a very marshy area to have bog at the moment as the rest of the country is like a desert at the moment. if you want to go to court and have any chance of winning you will need DEFINATIVE proof. any one that works for the yard/farm will be called by them so unlikely they will testify for you. what is written into your contract? you say you are paying full livery well £40/week is not a full livery price in any area of the country. I think you should get your horse tested and swabbed. a full blood profile. pay your vet and your livery bill and find a nice bubble for you and your horse to live in! When you have tested clear then i am sure your yard will be very happy for you to move to somewhere else, but be prepared to look well out of your area as most yard owners tend to hear about the unreasonable liveries. in the future i would suggest that you insure your animals, vaccinate against flu/tet/strangles, and do 6 monthly bloods so that you know that your horse is healthy. Also i do hope your horse is recovering, and makes a full recovery to full health. Maybe you could talk to a feed help line for some advice on the convalescing horse? and add some blood tonic (red cell /pro plus/equivite etc) echinacea to help his recovery. oh yes and get some insurance (even if it is like shutting the door after the horse has bolted) Good luck. do let us know the outcome of this. I am sure nearly the all the members of this forum will be interested.


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## HopeforMe (20 April 2011)

Did you vaccinate your horse against strangles? That would be the responsible thing to do with a horse that lives in a yard where horses come and go and you can't control what they come in contact with.


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## ngrace (20 April 2011)

What exactly is your question/what exactly do you need to know? You have shown you are unhappy about your YO/YM etc, and you clearly want to sue them. Most of the people on here seem do disagree that you should, but you are arguing back at them. It seems more like you want to let off steam. 

If you have made up your mind to sue them then go ahead, and you may loose alot of money, or maybe you will win the case, either way it doesnt seem like you want to hear the advice people are giving, its just a long rambling argument.

I hope your horse recovers quickly with the best care possible and doesnt have to suffer anymore than he would have or be sold off after recovering from a horrible illness, as a result of lack of insurance.


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## babymare (20 April 2011)

ummmm i confused - but can i say i had 2 who caught strangles living on moors miles from anyone and not going to shows - they recovered though with one was touch and go at one point as he became skin and bone both went on to other homes happily and still are yes strangles is awful but a fact of lifee with horses on or off yards like said confused but not read all posts lol


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## lea840 (20 April 2011)

charlie76 said:



			if you have no insurance..... if you think the vets bills are big, wait until you pay the legal costs........esp if you lose.
		
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I agree with you Charlie on this... 

If you cannot afford a £400 vet bill then I suggest you get a "For Sale" sign on your house before taking someone through the small claims court, yes it might be inexpensive (Approx £60) to lodge a claim but unless you know your Negligence 100% inside out then you will be scoffed for breakfast in court and no disrespect to you in any way shape or form but you havn't set your stall out very well here, so you wont stand a chance in court against a breif... be prepared because this £400 vets bill you have at the moment will feel like loose change in your pocket if you lose... Legal costs can very quickly and very steeply build up!


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## jhoward (20 April 2011)

could i just ask, if your horse has strangles, why the hell are you wanting to hack it? Id of thought the poor sod was far to ill.


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## saddlesore (20 April 2011)

Having trawled through that post it seems to me that you are most annoyed about the fact that:

a. you can't hack out
b. your horse is in an unsuitable field
c. that you are paying for facilities you are unable to use

Well quite simply

a. you cannot take a horse from an infected yard off the premises until all horses have been swabbed clear. It is HIGHLY irresposible to do so and could cause a repeat of this situtaion at another yard!
b. ask to move field? Is it REALLY that unsuitable or are you just pi$$ed off in general?
c. that's the way it goes! If your horse was on box rest you still need to pay your normal livery package - which I assume includes grazing which you then would not be using!

Very odd post in general and tbh I don't think you've got a leg to stand on. And as for not insuring your horse and not having backup finances to cover such an eventualtity = madness.


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## lea840 (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I do not have any choice, the yard put him in this bog, I   can't  just move him
		
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A bog... define 'Bog' because we havn't had proper rain for a few weeks now... anyone elses yard like a 'Bog' at the moment??


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## caitlineloise (20 April 2011)

lea840 said:



			A bog... define 'Bog' because we havn't had proper rain for a few weeks now... anyone elses yard like a 'Bog' at the moment??
		
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After reading this thread, I'd like to know this too! 

The grounds rock hard where we are.


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## Amymay (20 April 2011)

As for your pm to me regarding costs for forsaking for twice a day visits, bedding and bandages - news flash: twice a day is the minimum most of us journey to see our horses (more if they are sick) so fail to see how you are out of pocket there.  And yes bedding costs money - another expectant cost.

Horses are expensive hobbies sick or healthy.


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## shadowboy (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I am pissed that he is being kept in one field which is not ideal, when there are other fields I could use that would allow me to hack out on mu own. This could go on for months, tests, tests test, some horses have tested negative but have still been kept in quarantine.
		
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 your posts are full of contradiction. You moan the yard doesnt isolate and test, then once they do- you moan again. I'm glad you don't lively with me- I wouldn't know if I was coming or going. 

Then you moan about cost of vets fees- but say you'd be in the same boat if you hadn't insured- yet you moan that the vets fees keep adding up- If' you'd been insured It would not have been a problem. 

Your not paying your livery so no wonder you're stuck in a boggy field!!


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## galaxy (20 April 2011)

I am wondering if your YM hasn't put you in that field so that you DON'T hack your horse out as they don't want their liveries to do irresponsible things like hacking out a horse from a yard with strangles.


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## JenJ (20 April 2011)

It's been entertaining reading, but if the OP is genuine, then (s)he must be in their late sixties at least to have worked for 50 years, yet used the word 'peeps' instead of people (sorry, picked up on it as it's one of my pet hates!). 

I don't think so.


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## Natch (20 April 2011)

Either you are struggling to pay vets bills or not. Standard insurance for up to £3k would have covered you for this incident, so arguing that people could have an 8k bill is irrelevant (not to mention much more unlikely than a bill for strangles..).  

Your horse is INFECTIOUS. He should NOT be going out hacking, or moving off the premesis, so the field is the best place for him. Paying for that? Tough luck, its not going to be forever.

Testing for strep. equi is perfectly possible. 

I agree with Tinypony, you do sound like a troll. Hey ho.


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## Vicki_Krystal (20 April 2011)

Im totally confused!
The only bit i am certain of, is that im so glad you are not on my yard!


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## lea840 (20 April 2011)

Vicki_Krystal said:



			Im totally confused!
The only bit i am certain of, is that im so glad you are not on my yard!
		
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/\  /\  /\ We need a "Like" button on here


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## Cinnamontoast (20 April 2011)

lea840 said:



			A bog... define 'Bog' because we havn't had proper rain for a few weeks now... anyone elses yard like a 'Bog' at the moment??
		
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caitlineloise said:



			After reading this thread, I'd like to know this too! 

The grounds rock hard where we are.
		
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Same. Unless your fields are crisscrossed by rivers, I fail to see how the field is a bog. Also, I gather no definitive diagnosis has been made? No swabs yet?

And why are you on about selling this horse/pony that you love so dearly?


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## brighteyes (20 April 2011)

None of it makes any sense at all to me!

Strangles is spread through direct contact with 'snot', usually horse to horse but can be via equipment.  However, it doesn't survive long in the environment.  So, jump all over me if you like, but a horse living on its own and hacking out where it is not going to come in contact with others is of little to no risk, surely?  Strangles is nasty (been there, done that) and had the guttural pouch wash thing, but the prof at Leahurst didn't tell me to lock my pony away from the rest of society, so surely, apart from the odd one to succumb to b a s t a r d (it put a row of asterisks!) strangles and purpura haemorrhagica the whole strangles thing is well overcooked?

Also, out of the six horses at mine at the time (all in close contact) one got a sublingual abscess and was very poorly, one had slight snot and coughed for two or three days and three showed no symptoms at all - and two of those were under four at the time.  The original sufferer had a very high temp, no snot or abscess but got guttural pouch empyema.  The people who were responsible for giving it to her (and it cut her life short and cost me a fortune) knew about the abscess in another pony they had and actually subsequently lost one themselves.  And _still_ they borrowed her and omitted to mention the abscess????  I will never forgive the person who really should have known better, considering their 'standing' in the horse world. It's unclear what did for their pony because it had a bleed so I suspect a guttural pouch mycosis type of thing.  Had very similar symptoms to my old girl but I went overboard on treatment.  Guttural pouch empyema is nasty, I'll give you that.

Gah, now I sound as crackers as the OP!

I got on with it, paid up and learnt a lesson about people.


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## babymare (20 April 2011)

ohhhhh brighteyes my 2 caught it at end of winter - didnt do winter shows - and on top of moors with no contact with other horses - vet said was air brorne - trust me cost a fecking fortune as i nearly lost my cob holly. was horrendous but with good vets and care they come through yay yay


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## Kadastorm (20 April 2011)

i am too confused, my poor little brain cant handle it...
but i think this person is just being a troll


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## Mike007 (20 April 2011)

babymare said:



			ohhhhh brighteyes my 2 caught it at end of winter - didnt do winter shows - and on top of moors with no contact with other horses - vet said was air brorne - trust me cost a fecking fortune as i nearly lost my cob holly. was horrendous but with good vets and care they come through yay yay
		
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Strangles ,airbourne?? Not very likely. Strangles ,Vet bourne, far more likely.


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## dieseldog (20 April 2011)

lea840 said:



			I agree with you Charlie on this... 

If you cannot afford a £400 vet bill then I suggest you get a "For Sale" sign on your house before taking someone through the small claims court, yes it might be inexpensive (Approx £60) to lodge a claim but unless you know your Negligence 100% inside out then you will be scoffed for breakfast in court and no disrespect to you in any way shape or form but you havn't set your stall out very well here, so you wont stand a chance in court against a breif... be prepared because this £400 vets bill you have at the moment will feel like loose change in your pocket if you lose... Legal costs can very quickly and very steeply build up!
		
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Neither side in a Small Claims Court can claim legal fees or any other expenses of each other - so no worries there.


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## QUICKFIRE (20 April 2011)

Strangles or no strangles, your yard owner has more than likely put your horse in a bog field in the hope that you do move! one of the quickest ways to get rid of a livery is to pess them off, and the fact of the matter is, if you rant on at the YO in the same manner as you have done here, I don't blame them!
go and brush your horse!


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## ofcourseyoucan (20 April 2011)

dieselmdog you are wrong. i went to small claims and won. and claimed expenses for myself and my witnesses. i could also have claimed my travel costs and time. i chose not to as winning the case was the aim. the other party paid the original bill that was in dispute plus the expenses.


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## Mike007 (20 April 2011)

ofcourseyoucan said:



			dieselmdog you are wrong. i went to small claims and won. and claimed expenses for myself and my witnesses. i could also have claimed my travel costs and time. i chose not to as winning the case was the aim. the other party paid the original bill that was in dispute plus the expenses.
		
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Being able to claim costs is very unusual in the small claims court . Unless the other party has behaved extremely unreasonably, expenses are severely restriicted.


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## SpruceRI (20 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			You are not aware about strangles testing, my horse has never been tested, it is not necessary, it is self evident, it is symptomatic, just as when you go to the doctor with a bacterial infection in your lungs, they don't test for the disease, they treat the symptoms.
		
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So where have the vets bills materialised from then?

No tests, just treatment?  A couple of series of antiobiotics wouldn't cost that much at all.

If your horse has got the disease, then surely he is ill, so why are you considering riding him? 

If he hasn't got the disease, when will he be tested and proven clear?

I'm as confused as everyone else.

As for whether you should or should not be insured (for vets fees) I think that's personal choice, but consider you need some sort of back-up plan for paying vets bills as they arise.  After all, if you have a sick cat, the bill can easily come to a few hundred quid, so you'd consider horses to be the same wouldn't you?


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## popstar (21 April 2011)

Tinypony said:



			OK, this is coming close to trolling now surely?  I'm gone.
		
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I've been wondering if this isn't the case all along... Surely no one can be as convoluted and impossible to get sense from as the OP??


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## jokadoka (21 April 2011)

ofcourseyoucan said:



			dieselmdog you are wrong. i went to small claims and won. and claimed expenses for myself and my witnesses. i could also have claimed my travel costs and time. i chose not to as winning the case was the aim. the other party paid the original bill that was in dispute plus the expenses.
		
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Same here, but OP needs to be aware she has to claim her "costs" of caring for her horse, vets fees etc BACK, meaning that she has to pay them first and than claim back through the courts, so her money problems won't go away by going to court. My case took 2 years and I won, but she won't as she's a troll


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## hairycob (21 April 2011)

Maybe we are being too hard on the OP. If she really has been professionally involved with horses for 50+ years she must be of an age where dementia has to be considered as a possibility.


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## Janah (21 April 2011)

Hairycob, just what I was thinking!

Jane


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## Ranyhyn (21 April 2011)

hairycob said:



			dementia has to be considered as a possibility.
		
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 snort!


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## Vicki_Krystal (21 April 2011)

Ooh careful!

I just had a pm from the OP, stating that i 'Get off her case'

Love - if your vet bills are £500, and u cant afford them as YOU chose to not be insured then that is your problem.

By the time that first horse came to the yard it was too late.

You come accross as down right selfish - your not bothered about your horse being ill as such, your more bothered by how much it has cost you and the fact you cant ride.

The fact that once again in your pm you state how u want to ride out, there are no horses in sight (which isnt the point really) just shows what a crack pot you are.

Get a grip, pay your bills as all other horsey people do and accept that while it isnt ideal - its horses and it happens.

Oh yeah - dont bother pming me again!


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## charlie76 (21 April 2011)

I had a PM too, I feel honoured!
Mine was explaining that there was no need to groom when the horse rolls in a muddy field. Again, I am mystified to where this mud is hiding!


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## Amaranta (21 April 2011)

OP is either the livery from hell or a Troll, I cannot make my mind up which she is 


If the former, I feel very sorry for her YO!


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## Amymay (21 April 2011)

The fact that once again in your pm you state how u want to ride out, there are no horses in sight (which isnt the point really) just shows what a crack pot you are.
		
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And all this _desipite_ the horse needing to be sedated to clean out the abcesses....  Poor lad.


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## Spudlet (21 April 2011)

£400 does not sound like that large a vets bill tbh, my last vets bill for my dog was about that much. 

One thing all these sorts of threads show is how royally screwed we will be if (when?) a more serious exotic disease enters the country The information on preventing these problems and minimising them when they do happen is out there, people need to seek it out before it all goes tits up!


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

I would like to ask the OP where the bedding costs she PM'd AmyMay about have come from?
He lives out in a bog..
Secondly, are you serious?!! You have a horse with a highly contagious disease and you haven't even tested for it?!!!
I paid £400 and more for my mare to undergo investigation for lameness behind and the vets found nothing. I would never begrudge a vets bill for my horse. Especially if they are that precious to you.


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## Amymay (21 April 2011)

Damnation said:



			I would like to ask the OP where the bedding costs she PM'd AmyMay about have come from?
He lives out in a bog..
Secondly, are you serious?!! You have a horse with a highly contagious disease and you haven't even tested for it?!!!
I paid £400 and more for my mare to undergo investigation for lameness behind and the vets found nothing. I would never begrudge a vets bill for my horse. Especially if they are that precious to you.
		
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Yes, I thought the bedding costs were interesting.  I mean obviously when you have a stable you have bedding, and lord knows it's expensive.  But allegedly he's not allowed in the stable.......  

Re not testing for the strangles - I suppose if it's on the yard and a horse develops the symptoms then it's going to be pretty obvious what it is.  So testing per se is not always necessary.

I have to say though the more the OP posts the more convinced I am that this is a welfare case.  The conditions that the pony are allegedly kept in sound very concerning........


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

I would still have my horse swabbed, how else will you know if he is clear or not since according to MrsD the outbreak started 3 months ago.

Why did the owners of the horses not iscolate the horses? I know I would! Management of a yard can't do alot of people are still going to insist on mixing with diseased horses.

And lastly, £400 is not a big bill. And where has the bill come from? If I recall rightly she said he had a dull coat but thats it, so where has the sedation to clean the pouches come from?

Perhaps I am reading too much into this


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## jhoward (21 April 2011)

AM, you may well be right, the horse lives in a bog never get grooms, and is being ridden whilst having strangles, not to mention abcesses. 

that poor poor horse.


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## Lady La La (21 April 2011)

jhoward said:



			AM, you may well be right, the horse lives in a bog never get grooms, and is being ridden whilst having strangles, not to mention abcesses. 

that poor poor horse.
		
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I had assumed it was a troll, but you may well be right. Perhaps this is a case for the authorities?


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## vam (21 April 2011)

Right i havnt read all the posts, to be honest its far far to close to home for me. 

OP, get a grip. 
In Jan 09 my yard got strangles, as a diy yard the owners took not real intrest or responsability for containing it. People where lax about it all some where better than others but it went through the whole yard near enough, the geldings first then it jump to some of the mares. In Easter that year my mare got it, i had kept her clear for about 3 months so do not for one miniute think i did not do enough. She was one of the last to get it by the way.
On May 18th she was pts. She developed barst strangles and the absesses in her gut made her colic, i was offered the option for her to have an op but she was 19 and had been ill for to long i made the desision to let her go. I cant explain to you that after 14 years of my horse never being ill how much it killed me watching her get worse.
I wasnt insured so after the vet bills and cremation costs i paid the 2k bill out of my own pocket and made no complaint.
You have the cheek to ask for compensation! I blame the yard for not doing enough, i blame the people for not being careful enough, i blame the people who bought the horse on the yard but never would i seek compensation. Its life, its done and i cant change it. I know i did my best and i did the right thing. 
Its coming up 2 years and i still miss her like mad, maybe you should be greatful for what you've got. i would pay £400 just to have my girl back, stop being so ungreatful.

Sorry for the spelling, i try not to get involved in stuff like this but its struck a nerve and im a bit angry.


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## ThePinkPony (21 April 2011)

I too got a PM. but it didnt really make sense. 

I'm a bit torn, because yes this might be a troll but what if it isnt. There is a poor horse out there in the middle of the only bog in the country, and its owner doesnt give a chuff about its welfare!!!

P.s. i live right near two rivers and they certainly arent boggy, and all the streams have nearly dried up


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## Maesfen (21 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I am pissed that he is being kept in one field which is not ideal, when there are other fields I could use that would allow me to hack out on mu own. This could go on for months, tests, tests test, some horses have tested negative but have still been kept in quarantine.
		
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How can you hack out if your horse is meant to be in isolation?  Isolation means just that, not going out.

FWIW I was told many years ago by a very experienced vet that it was better for a yard if a horse got strangles, that if precautions didn't work and another got it too, that it was better to treat them as normal which would mean that the disease would not linger on as long, there would be no dribs and drabs of weeks between another getting it so it would be all done and dusted in a far shorter time than seems to be the case here but that was when yards would only have the owner's horses to cope with so it was better to get it over and done with.  For all the ructions this instance seems to have caused (haven't read the next 2 pages yet!) it might have been a better course of action here too.


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## Vetwrap (21 April 2011)

Vam, I am so sorry about your mare.  That must have been devastating for you.  I can understand your anger at the op on this thread, but with so many inconsistencies and incoherent ramblings, I would not give this person any creedance at all - please do not give this thread any more thought.

I have no idea what the OP actually wants to hear.  Her thoughts and reasoning seems to be a million miles away from what the vast majority of board users consider even remotely acceptable.  Probably best to leave her to her bog and just hope that someone rescues the pony at some point.


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## BBH (21 April 2011)

OP is clearly a stereotypical mad horsewoman.


Which could be anyone of us in 20/ 30 years


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

BBH said:



			OP is clearly a stereotypical mad horsewoman.


Which could be anyone of us in 20/ 30 years 

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Hear hear!!!   Although if I am like that at 40/50 I will be locked up in a "special home".. xD


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## clairew (21 April 2011)

BBH said:



			OP is clearly a stereotypical mad horsewoman.


Which could be anyone of us in 20/ 30 years 

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:
Not so much a caring horsewoman, definately mad though...!


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## Hovis_and_SidsMum (21 April 2011)

Ah but you are all missing the obvious point - whilst its as dry as a bone in all parts of the country currently, its boggy in cloud cuckoo land where quite obviously the OP lives.........

I'm sorry love but if you are for real then get a grip.  Accidents and illness happen all the time with horses
At our last yard we had told the YO that there wasn't enough grass and the fields were becoming overstocked.  The horses were fighting by the gate to come in and sure enough less than a week later Sid got kicked and broke his leg.  £400 vet bill?  Welcome to the world of £4,000+ vets bills, months of heart ache and a horse that will never be worked again.  Loaning?  Selling?  Not ever an option.  I'm left with a 17.2HH expensively bred Hannovarian lawn mower who has so many exclusions on his insurance that he's more expesnive to insure than my car.  Tough thats life. I'm luckier than a close fried whose horse got kicked and was pts after £5000 worth fo operations trying to save her....

A month ago my YO went to a comp, came back and two days later her horse was ill.  She informed us all immediately and isolated her horse but Hovis and a couple of others had also caught it by then.  Luckily it was nothing more than a sniffle.  If it had been?  Tough thats life.  And horses.

Your choice not to insure your horse.  Your choice not to argue the toss about the field your horse is being kept in.  Your choice not to groom the poor thing. 
Going up to him twice a day?  What do you think 90% of us do every day in all weathers? Who normally looks after him or dare I not ask?

I really do hope you are a troll for your horses sake.  He didn't ask to be ill and he certainly didn't ask for you as an owner.  At the end of this (and there will be an end at some point) you will still have a horse to enjoy, hack and do things together.  Many people on here don't have that luxury and I'm sure would gladly put up with the issues you describe if it meant having their beloved horses back with them.  

Seek legal advice if thats what you want to do but quite frankly I think you need to do some thinking about what you're trying to achieve here, other than send my blood pressure through the roof.


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## Amaranta (21 April 2011)

Hovis_and_SidsMum said:



			Ah but you are all missing the obvious point - whilst its as dry as a bone in all parts of the country currently, its boggy in cloud cuckoo land where quite obviously the OP lives.........

I'm sorry love but if you are for real then get a grip.  Accidents and illness happen all the time with horses
At our last yard we had told the YO that there wasn't enough grass and the fields were becoming overstocked.  The horses were fighting by the gate to come in and sure enough less than a week later Sid got kicked and broke his leg.  £400 vet bill?  Welcome to the world of £4,000+ vets bills, months of heart ache and a horse that will never be worked again.  Loaning?  Selling?  Not ever an option.  I'm left with a 17.2HH expensively bred Hannovarian lawn mower who has so many exclusions on his insurance that he's more expesnive to insure than my car.  Tough thats life. I'm luckier than a close fried whose horse got kicked and was pts after £5000 worth fo operations trying to save her....

A month ago my YO went to a comp, came back and two days later her horse was ill.  She informed us all immediately and isolated her horse but Hovis and a couple of others had also caught it by then.  Luckily it was nothing more than a sniffle.  If it had been?  Tough thats life.  And horses.

Your choice not to insure your horse.  Your choice not to argue the toss about the field your horse is being kept in.  Your choice not to groom the poor thing. 
Going up to him twice a day?  What do you think 90% of us do every day in all weathers? Who normally looks after him or dare I not ask?

I really do hope you are a troll for your horses sake.  He didn't ask to be ill and he certainly didn't ask for you as an owner.  At the end of this (and there will be an end at some point) you will still have a horse to enjoy, hack and do things together.  Many people on here don't have that luxury and I'm sure would gladly put up with the issues you describe if it meant having their beloved horses back with them.  

Seek legal advice if thats what you want to do but quite frankly I think you need to do some thinking about what you're trying to achieve here, other than send my blood pressure through the roof.
		
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Well said!  You put it so much better than my anger fuelled attempt 

I do think that if the OP is for real, then her poor horse could be a welfare case.

PS:  Sorry about your poor horse


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## Clannad48 (21 April 2011)

Hovis_and_SidsMum said:



			Ah but you are all missing the obvious point - whilst its as dry as a bone in all parts of the country currently, its boggy in cloud cuckoo land where quite obviously the OP lives.........

I'm sorry love but if you are for real then get a grip.  Accidents and illness happen all the time with horses
At our last yard we had told the YO that there wasn't enough grass and the fields were becoming overstocked.  The horses were fighting by the gate to come in and sure enough less than a week later Sid got kicked and broke his leg.  £400 vet bill?  Welcome to the world of £4,000+ vets bills, months of heart ache and a horse that will never be worked again.  Loaning?  Selling?  Not ever an option.  I'm left with a 17.2HH expensively bred Hannovarian lawn mower who has so many exclusions on his insurance that he's more expesnive to insure than my car.  Tough thats life. I'm luckier than a close fried whose horse got kicked and was pts after £5000 worth fo operations trying to save her....

A month ago my YO went to a comp, came back and two days later her horse was ill.  She informed us all immediately and isolated her horse but Hovis and a couple of others had also caught it by then.  Luckily it was nothing more than a sniffle.  If it had been?  Tough thats life.  And horses.

Your choice not to insure your horse.  Your choice not to argue the toss about the field your horse is being kept in.  Your choice not to groom the poor thing. 
Going up to him twice a day?  What do you think 90% of us do every day in all weathers? Who normally looks after him or dare I not ask?

I really do hope you are a troll for your horses sake.  He didn't ask to be ill and he certainly didn't ask for you as an owner.  At the end of this (and there will be an end at some point) you will still have a horse to enjoy, hack and do things together.  Many people on here don't have that luxury and I'm sure would gladly put up with the issues you describe if it meant having their beloved horses back with them.  

Seek legal advice if thats what you want to do but quite frankly I think you need to do some thinking about what you're trying to achieve here, other than send my blood pressure through the roof.
		
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Hear, Hear, very succinctly put...

However, if this is a genuine case, please could admin or TFC request the local RSPA or other organisation to go and check on this poor, poor horse


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## Amymay (21 April 2011)

Clannad48 said:



			Hear, Hear, very succinctly put...

However, if this is a genuine case, please could admin or TFC request the local RSPA or other organisation to go and check on this poor, poor horse
		
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How will they know where the horse is??


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## Joyous70 (21 April 2011)

Ah but you are all missing the obvious point - whilst its as dry as a bone in all parts of the country currently, its boggy in cloud cuckoo land where quite obviously the OP lives.........

I'm sorry love but if you are for real then get a grip. Accidents and illness happen all the time with horses
At our last yard we had told the YO that there wasn't enough grass and the fields were becoming overstocked. The horses were fighting by the gate to come in and sure enough less than a week later Sid got kicked and broke his leg. £400 vet bill? Welcome to the world of £4,000+ vets bills, months of heart ache and a horse that will never be worked again. Loaning? Selling? Not ever an option. I'm left with a 17.2HH expensively bred Hannovarian lawn mower who has so many exclusions on his insurance that he's more expesnive to insure than my car. Tough thats life. I'm luckier than a close fried whose horse got kicked and was pts after £5000 worth fo operations trying to save her....

A month ago my YO went to a comp, came back and two days later her horse was ill. She informed us all immediately and isolated her horse but Hovis and a couple of others had also caught it by then. Luckily it was nothing more than a sniffle. If it had been? Tough thats life. And horses.

Your choice not to insure your horse. Your choice not to argue the toss about the field your horse is being kept in. Your choice not to groom the poor thing. 
Going up to him twice a day? What do you think 90% of us do every day in all weathers? Who normally looks after him or dare I not ask?

I really do hope you are a troll for your horses sake. He didn't ask to be ill and he certainly didn't ask for you as an owner. At the end of this (and there will be an end at some point) you will still have a horse to enjoy, hack and do things together. Many people on here don't have that luxury and I'm sure would gladly put up with the issues you describe if it meant having their beloved horses back with them. 

Seek legal advice if thats what you want to do but quite frankly I think you need to do some thinking about what you're trying to achieve here, other than send my blood pressure through the roof. 

Very well said 

and as for the OP's horse living in a bog, maybe its living under the bridge with its troll owner as thats probably the only place if this country that may be slightly boggy at the mo!!


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## Spyda (21 April 2011)

TROLL


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## Enfys (21 April 2011)

I have a bog! In fact I have several. 

I have a mare that has been in isolation since November because although she is now tested clear of Strangles I don't want her with my horses, my Boarders don't want her with theirs so she's stuck in a muddy paddock.

I also have a Troll buster _should_ he be required:


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

Enfys - I LOVE your goat, thought I would let you know. Perfect troll buster


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## Clannad48 (21 April 2011)

amymay said:



			How will they know where the horse is??
		
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They will know the ip address and any other information that you give when you register for HHO - perhaps there is some information that may lead them to this poor horse - unless of course the OP is a troll


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## Clannad48 (21 April 2011)

Enfys, love your troll buster - perhaps you could rent him out


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## mollichop (21 April 2011)

Aw has OP done a bunk? I'm intrigued about this fellow 




MrsD123 said:



			was it his manager, a man who has something of the night about him,
		
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I think it was him, in the muddy bog with a (unused) dandy brush!


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## Spudlet (21 April 2011)

I don't honestly think you can reasonably expect welfare charities, which are already overstretched, to trawl around a general area looking for a horse which may or may not exist, to be completely fair. It has to come down to the people around any welfare problem in real life to make the decision to do something. It makes me really cross when I see things that are clearly welfare problems existing slap bang alongside other horse owners and _no one does anything about it_.

I see what you're saying about being worried, but realistically there's not much than can be done given the information available here, and it's not even clear whether or not this is a real horse or whether all is exactly as it is being described either.


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## Amymay (21 April 2011)

Clannad48 said:



			They will know the ip address and any other information that you give when you register for HHO - perhaps there is some information that may lead them to this poor horse - unless of course the OP is a troll
		
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They can't possibly trace the horses location from the IP address or any other info you may use to register an account here.....


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## shadowboy (21 April 2011)

I note OP has dissapeared. I guess we will never know if she was for real or not.


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## Hebe (21 April 2011)

Personally, if this happened down the road from my herd and we were not told about it i d be extremely peed off   It may not be notifiable BUT i wish sometimes these yards wouldnt be hush hush about it because that is down right irresponsible!!!  

Any pony that enters my yard is kept separately for 2 weeks as a matter of course, and bio security is a must.  Regardless if i know theyre history they still get the same treatment.  You just cant be too careful. 

I dont know if your entitled to compo, havent got a clue, its the nature of yards disregard for disease control that got me.

I hope you get a happy ending


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## jhoward (21 April 2011)

amymay said:



			They can't possibly trace the horses location from the IP address or any other info you may use to register an account here.....
		
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maybe the horse has an internet account..


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## Kateyb33 (21 April 2011)

I was told that strangles can be airbourne and can come across on water, is this not true?


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## Amymay (21 April 2011)

Kateyb33 said:



			I was told that strangles can be airbourne and can come across on water, is this not true?
		
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No.


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## Lady La La (21 April 2011)

Kateyb33 said:



			I was told that strangles can be airbourne and can come across on water, is this not true?
		
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Strangles is definately NOT airbourne

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/60025.html


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## Hovis_and_SidsMum (21 April 2011)

jhoward said:



			maybe the horse has an internet account..

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Crikey don't tell Hovis that..........


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## dozzie (21 April 2011)

mollichop said:



			Aw has OP done a bunk? I'm intrigued about this fellow 




I think it was him, in the muddy bog with a (unused) dandy brush! 

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LOL!


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## fatpiggy (21 April 2011)

ooh, I got a PM too!  What fun!


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## benson21 (21 April 2011)

well thats just not fair,......I want a pm too!!!


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## charlie76 (21 April 2011)

If yours makes more sense than mine you are doing well! I am still bemused that in a livery yard, a horse can have strangles diagnoised from a vet but the yard owner has no idea. What a strange old set up!


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## HappyHorses:) (21 April 2011)

charlie76 said:



			If yours makes more sense than mine you are doing well! I am still bemused that in a livery yard, a horse can have strangles diagnoised from a vet but the yard owner has no idea. What a strange old set up!
		
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I think it's from the yard of make believe


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

I haven't had a PM, I feel left out!

This woman is either delusional or negligent herself..
Can't afford a £400 vet bill. Hasn't had her horse swabbed to see if he is cleared.. etc..
No insurance..
The yard sounds like its gone to the dogs.

If this is true.. bl**dy hell.
If its not.. what an imagination this woman has!


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## Kellys Heroes (21 April 2011)

I've just received a PM which I don't understand. I got to page 8 of this and gave up. Am I the only person going 'huh?????? '
I'm sure OP you have said that the reason you're upset is you can't hack out and that your horse HAS been tested and then proceeded to say the hacking isn't the problem and your horse hasn't been tested it's just 'evident'??
K x


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## sonjafoers (21 April 2011)

I gave up on this at page 16 so forgive me if this has been said, but OP what would you have done if your horse had been badly kicked in the field by another livery and then had to be on box rest for a long period of time??

Vets bills, paying for stable/grazing but not using both, caused by another horse on the premises (so to speak).....

And yes I've had 2 horses with strangles caused by poor yard management but that's life with horses!!


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## brighteyes (21 April 2011)

sonjafoers said:



			I gave up on this at page 16 so forgive me if this has been said, but OP what would you have done if your horse had been badly kicked in the field by another livery and then had to be on box rest for a long period of time??

Vets bills, paying for stable/grazing but not using grazing, caused by another horse on the premises (so to speak).....
		
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Start another thread, maybe?


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## jhoward (21 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I don't know how to find my previous posts, but it must have been before I had the information that they had been told about the disease in a particular horse.
These people allowed my horse to get this disease, they think they can shrug their shoulders and move on, but I am not going to capitulate. They have two weaknesses, cash and publicity, I know this sounds like I want to make money out of it, I wanted my horse to have a lovely natural life, and that has not happened, and the problem is ongoing.he is in a small yard without friends to play with indefinely.

Why should I pay for negligence by the yard, why should they not pay for the result of their action (in this case lack of action)
		
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MrsD123 said:



			No, the disease takes from 4/5 days to 14 days to incubate, my horse got the disease well outside this period.
		
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MrsD123 said:



			You are not aware about strangles testing, my horse has never been tested, it is not necessary, it is self evident, it is symptomatic, just as when you go to the doctor with a bacterial infection in your lungs, they don't test for the disease, they treat the symptoms.
		
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MrsD123 said:



			I made the case that no matter how much a horse was insured for, the vet bill could be greater, so I would still be in the same situation. 
The bill have only just started to come in, they could go on and on. In the meantime, although my horse is fit and well, he could still be a carrier, therefore has to be kept apart, but that does not mean he has to be stuck in a bog for months, there are areas where he could go and not meet any other horses. As to rambling, I       did not want to identify the yard, otherwise I could have been more specific.
		
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ok seeing as you ignored my question about hacking your sick horse, would you mind telling me how a horse with strangles is still fit and well. ive highlighted where u have said this so save confusion.

i fear people this person isnt a troll, just the average plonker that has no bloody clue and through pure ignorance is neglecting her horses needs in place of her own desire to be hacking to the beach.


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

Adding onto jhowards post - Where has the vets bill come from if you say the horse hasn't been tested, and is fit and well?!


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## OWLIE185 (21 April 2011)

I suspect the author of this post is an Easter School Holiday Troll who has now dissapeared to consume copious quantities of Easter Eggs and relive us of any more tales of this imaginary horse and yard.

However, if in real life the yard stated that it always initially put new horses on the yard in an isolation box for two weeks then this is what they should have done in this case and if they have not done so they are in breach of contract to the other liveries on the yard and could suffer the consequences of this.

Strangles is a disease that is mainly spread by direct or indirect contact with a carrier or a horse sufferng from strangles.  Different horses react differently to this disease.

Clearly an un-well horse should not be ridden.

I would suggest that anyone owning a horse would be wise to have their horse insured for vets fees and have no less than £10,000,000 third party public liability in place (this comes with Gold membership of the BHS as does free legal advice).  I would also suggest that one also needs savings to cover any unexpected un-insured vets fees so that in the event of ones horse becoming ill one has the reserves to meet large vets bills etc.

Sadly many owners are un-aware of the amount it can cost in time, money and heartache to treat and care for a sick horse.  In some cases fees and expenses can mount up to £20,000 which is a lot of money.


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## Kellys Heroes (21 April 2011)

I'm starting to suspect trollism....
They have upped the standards haven't they!! 
However, if you buy a horse expecting it to be fit and well throughout all its life so you are able to hack to the beach whenever you want and the horse not cost you any vets bills...you have bought the wrong animal I'm afraid.
K x


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## Janah (21 April 2011)

I haven't been PM'd either.  

Goes off in a sulk.


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

Janah, we can sulk together. I am truly hurt I haven't had a snotty PM


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## Hovis_and_SidsMum (21 April 2011)

People save yourself from getting RSI posting hoping to get a sensible answer.  I fear Hovis' and I's entry into the 2012 Olympics will occur before that happens..............

Unless anything was posted to suggest where the poor unfortunate horse is (other than in the mind of a cuckoo land resident) then I suspect there is little anyone can do.

If (and i actually hope this is a troll) the situation is real then I can only hope the YO, fellow liveries or some kind hearted local does something about this supposedly sick / not sick / strangles suffering / strangles carrying / fit and well / mudcovered / neglected /much loved pony (delete as appropriate depending on which post you read up to).

In the meantime I suggest you follow my lead - sit back, have a cup of tea, a choccie biscuit and thank the lord the silly wench isn't on your livery yard...........


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## Lady La La (21 April 2011)

*In one breath she says her horse has blatant strangles symptoms and doesn't need testing, in another she says he's fit and well and is only a carrier.

*She reckons he's in a field so muddy that it's described as a 'bog' despite pretty much nowhere in the country experiencing rain for a number of weeks.

*She talks of vets vees nearing £10000 and then goes on to say her bll is only £400

* She even drops the 'he's not insured' bombshell in there to REALLY get peoples backs up.

...of course she's a troll. I'm (almost) certain of it. If I'm wrong, then I'm going to have to go with HairyCobs theory...


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## foxy1 (21 April 2011)

Actually a horse CAN be fit and well and be a Strangles carrier and I think this is what the OP is battling with now. 

Sometimes after the actual Strangles illness has gone, the horse can hold bacteria in the gutteral pouch which it may or may not shed and infect other horses. 

It sounds like the OP has had gutteral washes (hence the sedation/vet bill part) which have returned a positive result so the horse must be segregated from the others to prevent possible spread.

I have to say that unless I had been through the whole saga myself I wouldn't be able to make head nor tale of the OP's posts, but they do make some sort of sense to me.


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## Hovis_and_SidsMum (21 April 2011)

Damnation said:



			Janah, we can sulk together. I am truly hurt I haven't had a snotty PM    

Click to expand...

Me too.  Alas it appears my teachers were right when they used to tell me to try harder..


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## galaxy (21 April 2011)

Lady La La said:



			*In one breath she says her horse has blatant strangles symptoms and doesn't need testing, in another she says he's fit and well and is only a carrier.

*She reckons he's in a field so muddy that it's described as a 'bog' despite pretty much nowhere in the country experiencing rain for a number of weeks.

*She talks of vets vees nearing £10000 and then goes on to say her bll is only £400

* She even drops the 'he's not insured' bombshell in there to REALLY get peoples backs up.

...of course she's a troll. I'm (almost) certain of it. If I'm wrong, then I'm going to have to go with HairyCobs theory...
		
Click to expand...

The above and in her other thread she wanted payment from the yard for her time looking after her sick horse and loss of use payment for the weeks she has not been able to ride it and she plucked some random (quite large) number out of the sky!!!


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## jhoward (21 April 2011)

foxy one, the point is op is coming out with confliccting posts, now keep in mind this horse has been ill enough to have an abcess, and this is with in 21 days i wouldnt describe a horse that has had strangles to be fit and well that quickley. 

i dont however think she is a troll, i had a trawl and shes been harping on about this for some time. 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=436692

theres other posts/threads too.


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## Kateyb33 (21 April 2011)

Lady La La said:



			Strangles is definately NOT airbourne

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/60025.html

Click to expand...



Iv been lied to all this time!!


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## foxy1 (21 April 2011)

jhoward said:



			foxy one, the point is op is coming out with confliccting posts, now keep in mind this horse has been ill enough to have an abcess, and this is with in 21 days i wouldnt describe a horse that has had strangles to be fit and well that quickley.
		
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I agree; but do we know when the horse had symptoms? I really don't think she is a troll


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

Hovis_and_SidsMum said:



			Me too.  Alas it appears my teachers were right when they used to tell me to try harder..

Click to expand...

Funnily enough my teachers said that. Now I know why


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## Lady La La (21 April 2011)

foxy1 said:



			Actually a horse CAN be fit and well and be a Strangles carrier
		
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I didn't say otherwise? My point is: the contrasting information the OP comes out with is laughable. She is almost certainly a troll.

& if she's not, well ...


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## Enfys (21 April 2011)

Kateyb33 said:



			I was told that strangles can be airbourne and can come across on water, is this not true?
		
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According to my Vet (who is my God as far as I am concerned) if an infected horse drinks from a communal trough and 'snots' (his words) in it then that _may_ pass on infection. 

I isolate incoming horses, and post "No contact" notices on stalls and gates. Infection _still_ gets  passed on because people apparently cannot read or understand and still pat the pretty horse and then go on to pat all the others, then, they go to a rescue centre in the same clothes and pat 30 other horses  It isn't always the fault of the yard, you can do your utmost but you can't police a yard 24/7 or always get people to understand _why _they shouldn't touch.


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## Hippona (21 April 2011)

benson21 said:



			well thats just not fair,......I want a pm too!!!
		
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I had one...didn't shed any light on the situation whatsoever....


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## charlie76 (21 April 2011)

This was my PM:
The horse has strangles, that is to say on 5th February his temperature went up and his lymph nodes were swollen, subsequently he has had two abcesses, one of which allowed us to collect about a litre of yellow pus from the lymph node, now if you think we need to spend money on tests, when the vet has identified the disease by symptoms, and he has been in contact with others with symptoms, then so be it
The horse needed nursing for three weeks, two or three times a day, I was with him three hours a day every day.
Now he is in a field, he is rolling in mud, why do I need to groom him, I check him over every day and give him a cuddle when he asks. If he wants a groom he will ask me, we are best friends but I would not allow this to happen to my best friend.

This says to be that the horse has abcessess and is unwell, so why would you want to tack it up and hack him?


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

But she previously said her horse was fit and healthy?!!


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## lea840 (21 April 2011)

dieseldog said:



			Neither side in a Small Claims Court can claim legal fees or any other expenses of each other - so no worries there.
		
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In some cases, even if the value of the case is more than £5,000, the court could allocate the case to the small claims track. If this happens the usual rule about costs does not apply and if the claimant loses the case, they may have to pay the defendants solicitors costs. However, if the claimant wins the case, the defendant could be ordered to pay the claimant's costs.

There are costs in the small claims, not sure why you think there wouldn't be??


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## jhoward (21 April 2011)

foxy1 said:



			I agree; but do we know when the horse had symptoms? I really don't think she is a troll
		
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yes if you be bothered to go through all her previous posts.


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## Clannad48 (21 April 2011)

Hovis_and_SidsMum said:



			People save yourself from getting RSI posting hoping to get a sensible answer.  I fear Hovis' and I's entry into the 2012 Olympics will occur before that happens..............

Unless anything was posted to suggest where the poor unfortunate horse is (other than in the mind of a cuckoo land resident) then I suspect there is little anyone can do.

If (and i actually hope this is a troll) the situation is real then I can only hope the YO, fellow liveries or some kind hearted local does something about this supposedly sick / not sick / strangles suffering / strangles carrying / fit and well / mudcovered / neglected /much loved pony (delete as appropriate depending on which post you read up to).

In the meantime I suggest you follow my lead - sit back, have a cup of tea, a choccie biscuit and thank the lord the silly wench isn't on your livery yard...........
		
Click to expand...


Yet again, you have hit the nail on the head, very succinctly put -

just off to have that cup of tea, but sadly no choccie biscuits


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## cindydog (21 April 2011)

I dont know if this is a Troll or not, will say dont bother trying to sue anyone, just dont do it, too much stress goes along with that path.
Have word with your vet ask can you pay in segments rather than a one off payment.
Once horse is given all clear you can move yard or sell ( you have to disclose horses medical history) might affect price.
Overall advice you are getting here is dont sue, dont ride out, dont wait until your horse asks to be groomed, just groom even a basic brush over and feet.
 I do understand that can be very mucky cleaning out feet just for your horse to put straight back into the mud, however it gives you the chance to get rid of anything that might be stuck in there or you might get a smell of infection when cleaning hoof. 
Will follow post " cant help it ".


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## fatpiggy (21 April 2011)

Well this is my PM


I am 64 years old actually, started breaking ponies as a teenager, I have only worked in racing yards where things are professional.
I have public liability.
I do not have insurance, in five years without a vet bill, I have re couped the current costs, what I am saying is that no matter how much I piad in insurance, the bill could still be greater.

I make sure my horse is looked after properly and hacked out every day, he is a rescue horse and I am very fond of him, I do not want to sell him as we have been through a lot together, I broke him in, and had all the jabs and worming required.
I am not sure what a troll is, but I am not making this up for publicity if that is what you think  




Troll or not, they are certainly not a full shilling.   " had all the jabs and worming required" - what does that mean?  The first thing I did when I bought my horse was have her vaccinated, wormed her and then had her freezemarked.  Its called normal horsecare, especially if you don't know their history ( I didn't even know my horse's name).

I'd also love to know how they got a litre of pus out of a strangles abscess. I nursed a mare years ago with 3 abscesses and she didn't produce 10% of that.  I'm also quite surprised that a person aged 64 mentions litres too.  Talk to anyone of mid 40s and over and we all still use Imperial (and I was educated to degree level in a metric!!). Also, why calls us "peeps"?  Its people unless you spend an unhealthy amount of time with teenagers - or actually are one yourself.

The term "liar, liar pants on fire" springs to mind.


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## kickonchaps (21 April 2011)

fatpiggy said:



			I have public liability.
		
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I *am a public liability

Mistype there FP


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

kickonchaps said:



			i *am a public liability

mistype there fp 

Click to expand...

lmfao!!!!


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## fatpiggy (21 April 2011)

Now then Kickon - don't be getting nasty


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## Tinypony (21 April 2011)

You are all wasting your time.  If Op is genuine then she has already been told that she needs to seek legal advice if she wants any compensation or form of restitution from the yard.  She doesn't have any insurance company that she could consult about this, that might act on her behalf (she hasn't replied to my suggestion that even household insurance might include some legal advice).  She was therefore advised to contact the CAB.  Which she patently hasn't.

Goodness why she's posting here as she clearly doesn't want to listen to any advice she's given and is just taking people round and round the same discussion.  A bit like being in a revolving door.

Maybe Op, if you're not trolling, you would like to simply state what it is you actually want from the people who read your thread?  

Do you want them to give advice? (That's been done).
Commiserate? (That's been done).
Get irritated with you?  (Tick that box as well).


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## Kellys Heroes (21 April 2011)

BHS have been in touch with me this afternoon, they seem to be tracing strangles cases from this dealers yard, one of which arrived in our Livery yard.
The yard has its own stated isolation policy but blatantly disregarded it.
The BHS state three weeks isolation, and it is a BHS yard.
I sent this to BHS Quote:
"I should have said that i asked the yard what was wrong with the horse from 
Bssssss yard and was told it had had ringworm
I asked what was wrong with the cob2, the first K****** pony infected, and 
was told it had a non infective upper respiratory tracy infection....... is 
that even possible!
The owner of cob2 told the yard on vet advice that the horse had strangles three weeks before the yard did something by which time there were about 20 horses with a problem.

This is what I received if anyone would care to decipher?
I hope if this is genuine, OP is giving the horse correct care, whether it is infected or not.
K x


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## Vicki_Krystal (21 April 2011)

I struggled with yours!
Maybe i should be flattered that mine was mostly readable!! -

get off my case 

My horse has had no symptoms for 5 weeks, there are more and more tests to be done, and as I explained there is a field and a hack where there are no other horses.
Apart from the yard horses there are no horses closer than four miles. none of the horses would be on the path I would go on. 
Surgery, antibiotics etc have led to bills of £400 so far, other horse in same situation had bills for £1000.
The yard ignored their own isolation guidelines
They are BHS approved!
They told me lies when I asked what was wrong with two (out of four) sick horses, almost all the horses in one yard got strangles, thanks to their management practices.


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## Damnation (21 April 2011)

Basically there are no horses for 4 miles around and she wants to go riding. Apparently her horse has had Anti B's and surgery hence the vets bills.
Apparently strangles horse 1 came from a dealers yard that was known to have strangles and was supposed to be under an iscolation guideline. But the yard ignored it and sold a Strangles infected horse that then came onto the OP's yard. The owner of horse 2 that got strangles told the YO 3 weeks before anything was done and by then the infection had been spread.
Am I along the right lines?


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## Tinypony (21 April 2011)

Damnation said:



			Basically there are no horses for 4 miles around and she wants to go riding. Apparently her horse has had Anti B's and surgery hence the vets bills.
Apparently strangles horse 1 came from a dealers yard that was known to have strangles and was supposed to be under an iscolation guideline. But the yard ignored it and sold a Strangles infected horse that then came onto the OP's yard. The owner of horse 2 that got strangles told the YO 3 weeks before anything was done and by then the infection had been spread.
Am I along the right lines? 

Click to expand...

I think so, and my question is - so what?  What does MrsD want from the forum members who are spending so much time on this compelling thread?


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## Janah (21 April 2011)

**** happens!!!   Get over it!!!!


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## charlie76 (21 April 2011)

surgery???? for strangles?


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## moosea (21 April 2011)

BHS have been in touch with me this afternoon, they seem to be tracing strangles cases from this dealers yard, one of which arrived in our Livery yard.
		
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_Your yard would not - at least imho - be responsible for this, unless you have hard evidence that they had prior knowledge that the horse coming to the yard was infected, a carrier or had been in contact with infected horses. _




			The yard has its own stated isolation policy but blatantly disregarded it.
The BHS state three weeks isolation, and it is a BHS yard.
		
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_BHS is not the law. The yard's own policy however, should have been adhered to. Is there any written details of this policy in your livery contract? ie. do you have proof of their procedure for isolating new horses on the yard?_




			I sent this to BHS Quote:
"I should have said that i asked the yard what was wrong with the horse from 
Bssssss yard and was told it had had ringworm
I asked what was wrong with the cob2, the first K****** pony infected, and 
was told it had a non infective upper respiratory tracy infection....... is 
that even possible!
		
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_You may find that the yard could possibly be proved negligent by failing to inform you of an infectious disease. If you had known earlier you would have taken precautions such as not touching the infected horses ect._





			The owner of cob2 told the yard on vet advice that the horse had strangles three weeks before the yard did something by which time there were about 20 horses with a problem.
		
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_You may also find that they would be negligent here. You state that the 'yard' took three weeks to 'do something about it' - by that I assume you mean that it was three weeks before any infection control measures were in place? _


As I said in my post on the previous thread, you need to get legal advice as soon as possible. 
With the details you have given above, there is a chance you may have a case.

And with these details I can also understand why you would be angry.


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## Fairynuff (21 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Horse1 came from a dealer, it was sick within 24 hours
Horse2 10 meters away got a disease a few days later, this was diagnosed by symptoms as strangles
These people told the yard manager, I do not know if the yard owner was informed but someone decided to shut up about it.
Horse3 was beside the second horse and so on.
		
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when my old boy was a yearling he was stabled in the middle of a yard during an outbreak of strangles. His nextdoor neighbour came down with it, Tom didn't. It is highly probable that your horse (and others) would have been infected even if infectious horse had been isolated. I would forget it and get on with life


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## Vixen Van Debz (21 April 2011)

A livery that isn't paying any fees, but as you know she can't move her horse both as she'll never find anywhere else to accept her and other horses' health could be compromised from any contact, you don't evict her? Wow, I wish more YOs were so understanding, and put welfare before their own finances...


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## Enfys (21 April 2011)

charlie76 said:



			surgery???? for strangles?
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps she meant lancing the abcess? 

A bit of local anaesthetic and a scalpel for lancing, including visit, cost me less than $80. My Vet taught me how to do it, if the occasion arises, and he says to do so, I will do it myself next time.


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## Natch (21 April 2011)

I went to a vet talk a few weeks ago on strangles, and they said they don't usually touch strangles - no operation, no meds, not even lancing (our practice's opinion only I do appreciate). Just let it run its course and advise owners on quarrantine procedures, unless b*rd is suspected.


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## EAST KENT (21 April 2011)

Enfys said:



			Perhaps she meant lancing the abcess? 

A bit of local anaesthetic and a scalpel for lancing, including visit, cost me less than $80. My Vet taught me how to do it, if the occasion arises, and he says to do so, I will do it myself next time.
		
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OOOh Yesss I love a good abcess to deal with!


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## Enfys (22 April 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			OOOh Yesss I love a good abcess to deal with!

Click to expand...

 Noooooooooooo it is the only thing that I have ever had to do with horses that had me retching, seriously gross. Even a foot practically severed and up to my elbow inside a wound staunching blood doesn't bother me. If I cut myself and bleed, even a little bit, I pass out! Pathetic!

I am all for leaving Strangles to run its course if possible, I won't vaccinate for it either, the best vaccine for Strangles is Strangles itself.


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## ofcourseyoucan (23 April 2011)

And where is MrsD123 the op? gone to ground? i am sure every one would like to hear where she is at in this dilema? wouldnt you all like to hear the outcome???? tho small claims will take ayear or so? MrsD where are you????????????????????????????


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## Amymay (23 April 2011)

Interesting to read in H&H that a top eventer has had a problem with strangled quit recently affecting a number of horses...


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## FairyLights (23 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			there are three or maybe four levels of management, I do not know who decided to cover up, was it the Farm owner , a peer of the realm, was it his manager, a man who has something of the night about him, or the yard manager, or the person in charge of operations on the day they were advised of the problem.
		
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mysteriouser and mysteriouser. I smell a troll! Trolling here ,trolling there , trollty trollty trollty,troll te troll te troll te troll ,troll te troll te de troll 
What a fun thread


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## JessandCharlie (23 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			there are three or maybe four levels of management, I do not know who decided to cover up, was it the Farm owner , a peer of the realm, was it his manager, a man who has something of the night about him, or the yard manager, or the person in charge of operations on the day they were advised of the problem.
		
Click to expand...

Or was is Colonel Mustard, in the Dining Room, with the candlestick? 





I applaud you, kept everyone busy for a while this thread 

J&C


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## sonjafoers (23 April 2011)

ofcourseyoucan said:



			And where is MrsD123 the op? gone to ground?
		
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She's got stuck in the bog


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## jhoward (23 April 2011)

sonjafoers said:



			She's got stuck in the bog 

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she has been posting on other threads, so i think she is to experianced to dignify us lot with any sort of answers.


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## Mogg (23 April 2011)

_Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsD123 
..... was it his manager, a man who has something of the night about him, _

everything else aside, i love this phrase


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## Tinypony (23 April 2011)

Mogg said:



_Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsD123 
..... was it his manager, a man who has something of the night about him, _

everything else aside, i love this phrase 

Click to expand...

Attributed to Ann Widdicombe speaking about Michael Howard.


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## Miss L Toe (24 April 2011)

Had I known then what I know now then I would have taken action, and my horse would not have been in contact with any other animal, person or communal facility. I agreed to pay for a stable, and grazing and hacking, plus other facilities, none of which I have had access to for three months, therefore why should I pay.
btw there are three reasons not to pay, the main one being that as long as peeps continue to aquiesce, the yard will sit back and say, ........ "another storm in a teacup"..... these horse peeps have got too much money and too little commonsense, as long as we get our money, who gives a damn.
I prefer to pay my debts to the vets and not to the yard.
I am waiting for them to accept their liability, both moral and financial


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## Miss L Toe (24 April 2011)

The yard have not put my horse welfare before their finance, just the opposite.


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## Miss L Toe (24 April 2011)

To those who I sent a private message and who decided to post it publicly, why would you do that?


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## Miss L Toe (24 April 2011)

Fairynuff said:



			when my old boy was a yearling he was stabled in the middle of a yard during an outbreak of strangles. His nextdoor neighbour came down with it, Tom didn't. It is highly probable that your horse (and others) would have been infected even if infectious horse had been isolated. I would forget it and get on with life

Click to expand...

That is exactly what the yard want, of course


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## Miss L Toe (24 April 2011)

Vixen Van Debz said:



			A livery that isn't paying any fees, but as you know she can't move her horse both as she'll never find anywhere else to accept her and other horses' health could be compromised from any contact, you don't evict her? Wow, I wish more YOs were so understanding, and put welfare before their own finances...
		
Click to expand...

The yard have a duty of care to my horse, and there are other legal niceties, I would be only to glad if they found me somewhere else to take my horse, I am unable to visit other yards at the moment as my horse, while not having any symptoms has not been cleared of being a strangles carrier, off course there is no legal requirement on me for this, my main legal requirement is to ensure my horse does not suffer unnecessarily.


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## Janah (24 April 2011)

If you want your horse to have no contact with any other animal or human I suggest you go and live on an island!  
These things happen and the fact you have no hacking, I cannot comment on stabling or other facilities, though I would expect my yard to so charge as facilities are still there, are your problem.

Get real!

Jane


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## Miss L Toe (24 April 2011)

Janah said:



			If you want your horse to have no contact with any other animal or human I suggest you go and live on an island!  
These things happen and the fact you have no hacking, I cannot comment on stabling or other facilities, though I would expect my yard to so charge as facilities are still there, are your problem.

Get real!

Jane
		
Click to expand...

Why would you pay for your stable when you are barred from using it?
Would you pay for it if another horse was using it and was also paying?

mmmmm ps I am on an island, how perceptive!


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## ThePinkPony (24 April 2011)

I really dont want to be cruel mrsD but you really need to get rid of your horse. You arent caring for him the way he should be. Leaving him in a bog, not grooming him, not wanting to get him tested, wanting to hack him out whilst potentially contagious..

If that were me in your position i can 100% say i would have had him out of the ''bog'' and would be paying particular attention to him since he had been unwell. Sod your yard, the worst they can do is throw you off (which they cant do at the moment because of the outbreak).

There have been some excellent tips posted from people experienced with your situation and you are just arguing the case all the time which as everyone else agrees, is wrong. 

You PMed me about what i said regarding you not being able to move him, and it didnt make sense, thats all i said but i still believe you could do more regarding where your horse is left. 

I dont fully understand this thread when you are involved. Im only just beginning to enter the world of owning my own horse and it shocks me that you have been doing it for as long as you say you have and have such a blase attitude towards your horses wellbeing but cant do enough to find out who you can put the blame on...


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## galaxy (24 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Why would you pay for your stable when you are barred from using it?
Would you pay for it if another horse was using it and was also paying?
		
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Yes if it was the case that you weren't to use it was on medical grounds.

However are you saying they have put another horse in your stable?  If that is the case have you approached them about this and asked them why and aired your concerns over paying for something someone else is benefiting from?


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## sonjafoers (24 April 2011)

I think the problem is MrsD that you have managed to get peoples backs up. You posted on here asking for advice/opinions & then have completely disregarded what everyone has said. You have  blindly repeated yourself instead of responding to people whilst making absolutely no sense at times and you have also contradicted yourself on occasion.

I agree you are in a difficult position but you haven't really helped yourself on here by the way you come across, and if you are the same in person then maybe your yard aren't as prepared to help you as they could be.


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## Natch (24 April 2011)

What is it you want to achieve from all these posts, mrsd123? This has been asked but thus far not become any clearer than mud.


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## JessandCharlie (24 April 2011)

Honestly, horses get sick. It's a fact. I'm sorry for your situation, but you too have a duty of care to your horse, and a responsibility to other horse owners. What's done is done, the best thing you can do is have your horse remain in quarantine and prevent spread. Ask the vet and the livery yard if you can pay your debts in instalments and may I suggest you get some insurance? 

You say that if you'd insured in the past you would have spent more than you have to spend now. Good. Lucky for you you're still in the black as far as I'm concerned. 

PS, can you send us some rain? We most certainly don't have bogs here. 

J&C


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## Foxhunter49 (24 April 2011)

I would say tough titty.
Incubation period for strangles is 21 days and if the horse was mixed with the others before the strangles was diagnosed then the chances are they would have caught it anyway if they were going to get it.

If on the other hand the yard accepted a horse and was informed that it had or had been exposed to strangles, then you would have a chance in a small claims court. 

It seems a bad policy to deny they have an infectious disease or to allow any owner to take their horse out of the yard. 

A few years ago I had an outbreak of strangles. Considering that non of the horses had been off the place and that they had no contact with other horses it was strange they should get it as there was not, to my knowledge any in the area with it. I can only surmise that the farriers had been in contact with a carrier and brought it in as they had all been trimmed a week or so before infection showed in the youngsters.
My boss wanted to isolate but that was pointless as all had been in contact one way or another. I just got some snot from an infected horse and wiped all the 'clear' horses with it. My policy was 'if you are going to get it, get it together' and it was clear in about six weeks. 
Isolation is usually to late and practically impossible in modern yard layouts.


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## ofcourseyoucan (24 April 2011)

mrsd what area of the country are youo in? see your yard has isolatted your horse .. responsible. he had abcesses which have now been drained .. responsible. he is still in isolation and not being hacked/socialised .. responsible. until you get clear swabs back then you and your horse are stuck! are you in wootton wawen by any chance? there is a yard there with strangles who are bveing unresponsible!!!!


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## Amymay (26 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Why would you pay for your stable when you are barred from using it?
Would you pay for it if another horse was using it and was also paying?

mmmmm ps I am on an island, how perceptive!
		
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I hope MrsD that you have been able to now take some affirmative action to get your stable back etc., and have retained the uses of some legal professionals to help you move forward.

It may also be a good idea to contact the RSPCA (or equivalent) in order to help you effect a positive outcome for your horse, and the other horses on the yard you are at.

Let us know when you have a positive update.


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## Tinypony (26 April 2011)

MRS D - you still haven't shared with us - WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE FROM THIS THREAD?  You're ranting on and on about the yard, getting narked at people's comments, but what was the POINT of posting in the first place?  What do you want from us?  Tea, sympathy, advice, irritation - you've had them all.
(Don't pm me, I'll post it on the thread if you do.  Please share your purpose with everyone).


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## tinap (26 April 2011)

I've spent an hour reading through this thread & the question i still want to know the answer too, that's been asked loads of times & not answered is WHERE ARE YOU IF YOU HAVE A BOGGY FIELD?????


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## Amymay (26 April 2011)

tinap555 said:



			I've spent an hour reading through this thread & the question i still want to know the answer too, that's been asked loads of times & not answered is WHERE ARE YOU IF YOU HAVE A BOGGY FIELD?????
		
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Not all the country has been dry.........


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## frozzy (26 April 2011)

Possibly the OP is in Scotland?
I have one field thats poorly drained and it has boggy patches. We have had more rain than in England. The most recent was Friday/Saturday. There are also reports of strangles in our county.


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## Tinypony (26 April 2011)

Strangles tends to be more widespread than we realise.  I'm still waiting for the answer to my question, nothing else to say until I know that.


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## ofcourseyoucan (26 April 2011)

i have had a bizarre PM from MrsD123. she is in scotland somewhere!! would put the pm up but dont know how other than to write it down and re type it out!!!!


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## Clannad48 (26 April 2011)

ofcourseyoucan said:



			i have had a bizarre PM from MrsD123. she is in scotland somewhere!! would put the pm up but dont know how other than to write it down and re type it out!!!!
		
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Just copy and paste it into a reply


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## sunshine19 (27 April 2011)

Its a miracle!!!!! She's opening a livery yard now!! 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=9608973&posted=1#post9608973


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## tinap (27 April 2011)

Haha!! Definite troll then!!


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## blood_magik (27 April 2011)

frozzy said:



			Possibly the OP is in Scotland?
I have one field thats poorly drained and it has boggy patches. We have had more rain than in England. The most recent was Friday/Saturday. There are also reports of strangles in our county.
		
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Whereabouts are the strangles cases, just out of interest? haven't heard anything about it.

we did have some rain but not enough to make the ground boggy - it barely did anything to our fields


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## AndiK (27 April 2011)

OMG is all I can say. MrsD123 wont get any advice from me because a) she was outright rude b) seemed to care more about the money than the health of her horse and c) deffo troll

If this thread can be used to highlight anything may it be to illustrate how important insurance is. I echo what everyone else has said and insure for my own piece of mind but also to ensure the welfare of my horse. 

Just had a butchers at the livery yard thread - joke.... (Shakes head in disbelief!!!)


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## frozzy (27 April 2011)

It was going round the annan/Gretna/Carlisle area last heard.


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## blood_magik (27 April 2011)

frozzy said:



			It was going round the annan/Gretna/Carlisle area last heard.
		
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ah .. that's a bit of a trek from me. will have to listen out for it travelling.
hijack over


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

THE END
My poor pony has suffered dreadfully, and I have suffered with him, now he is in a new yard, he is rolling in the mud like it was made for him, he has a new best [boy] friend and two grey mares to kiss and cuddle. He gets a big feed with oats , and a soft deep bed at night. 
We were lucky to find a yard to take him as most would not, he had to leave the place where he contracted strangles, because I was angry that they had allowed this to happen, and at the end, in spite of having 3000 acres of land, they stuck him in a bog for six weeks on his own, he did not understand what he had done that was so wrong.


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## frozzy (18 May 2011)

MRS D123 can I ask which part of Scotland you are? 
Following on from your livery thread can I ask please why you are not keeping him where you proposed starting your livery business?
Just being interested really. Glad that your horse is now in a better place but are you sure he isnt still carrying strangles?


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## Amymay (18 May 2011)

Don't know why you simply didn't move him to your own land - the one on which you proposed to start a livery yard on....


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## sunshine19 (18 May 2011)

Aww god is this cr#p still going on???? MrsD123 I thought you were running a retirement livery yard?? 
You don't half speak a load of tripe!


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

luckilotti said:



			I'm a YO and IMO it's not on if they knew what was going on - but... are you sure the YO knew the horse had strangles and its not the owner of the horse which brought it onto the yard who has failed to tell people, paniced when other horses contracted it and then said that the YO knew??

TBH, if your horse isnt insured, i imagine it could cost you quite a bit to prove that the yard owners knowingly let the infected horse mix with the others and to take it to court.  

I am not familiar with exactly what happened in your situation - but what did you do when you found out about the horse having strangles?
		
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I knew nothing about strangles until well after the event.
A horse was brought in to the yard from a dealer (Irish imports weekly) (who was known to have strangles),  six weeks before the first positive strangles swab test, by that time four horse had been sick. I was in a different section of the yard, so I was not fully aware of the situation, had I been aware, I would have kicked up, but more importantly I would have made my horse bio-secure as I was the ONLY educated person with any knowledge of strangles AND bio-security.
I know another horse had been swab tested, but the swab test is not definative., also the original horse was sick as it arrived and I think  the owner thought that having had a vetting he was in the clear!


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## Ella19 (18 May 2011)

they stuck him in a bog for six weeks on his own, he did not understand what he had done that was so wrong.
		
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hang on you wanted to sue a yard for not putting a horse in isolation but then kick up a fuss when your infected horse was isolated?


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## bugaboo (18 May 2011)

My only opinion on this subject is its like me sending me son to nursery and going off my head cos he comes home with chickenpox,its happens horses kept together catch infections.A friend of mine bought a horse moved it to a new yard and it came to pass it had strangles and the liveries went way OTT to the point of assaulting this girl when she had no way of knowing the horse was carrying the infection when she bought it.
 Im sorry if its not what you want to hear but horses,cats,dogs,rabbits,children,adults catch infections they get ill despite if horses are put away from others the infection will still spread.
 What makes me more shocked is the fact your horse is not insured???????????????????
If you kick up a stink about this your name will be known on yards in your area and nobody will want to take you on as a livery if you kick up this much fuss about something most equine owners will deal with at some point.


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## Amymay (18 May 2011)

MrsD, I think there may be two of you using your log in. One who actually makes sense and sounds as if they know what they're talking about - and the other who just rambles....


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## blood_magik (18 May 2011)

speaking of strangles, I heard a rumour about it being found over the east Kilbride way..
hope it's not true


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

I do not understand why so many people think that it is OK for a yard to be negligent, that is to say to ignore their stated  isolation policy, and to ignore disease and to tell me lies about sick horses.
Strangles is not a part of owning a horse, In twenty years, I have worked in yards with 1000 horse, and no strangles. The BHS welfare section  are tracing an outbreak in Central Scotland, in particular they are looking at three dealers bringing regular consignments from Ireland.


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## Amymay (18 May 2011)

Any illness is part of working with horses, your implied experience should inform you of that.


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## jrp204 (18 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			THE END
My poor pony has suffered dreadfully, and I have suffered with him, now he is in a new yard, he is rolling in the mud like it was made for him, he has a new best [boy] friend and two grey mares to kiss and cuddle. He gets a big feed with oats , and a soft deep bed at night. 
We were lucky to find a yard to take him as most would not, he had to leave the place where he contracted strangles, because I was angry that they had allowed this to happen, and at the end, in spite of having 3000 acres of land, they stuck him in a bog for six weeks on his own, he did not understand what he had done that was so wrong.
		
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Love it! 'he is now rolling in mud like it was made for him' when he had apparently been stuck in bog!
And since when has a horse had 'understanding' of what he had done so wrong?


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## bugaboo (18 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I do not understand why so many people think that it is OK for a yard to be negligent, that is to say to ignore their stated  isolation policy, and to ignore disease and to tell me lies about sick horses.
Strangles is not a part of owning a horse, In twenty years, I have worked in yards with 1000 horse, and no strangles. The BHS welfare section  are tracing an outbreak in Central Scotland, in particular they are looking at three dealers bringing regular consignments from Ireland.
		
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Nobody is saying its ok for a yard to be negligent all people are saying is it happens and its something you take on board when you own a horse im still shocked you dont have your horse insured,even my rabbit is insured.


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## Ladylina83 (18 May 2011)

It's not ok it's a Sh#ter ! but the thing is you took a risk with not insuring your horse ! 

If I chose not to insure my horse I would think... now what will happen if a horse goes to camp and comes back to strangles !! Horses get infected end of. the biggest problem with strangles is that people do not communicate about it ... not the strangles itself.

It is seen to be this thing to hide away from but I have to say if it was my horse i would be petrified but I would also make damn sure that everyone knew their horses were at risk so that know one else felt the same as me !!


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## bugaboo (18 May 2011)

Agree with what you said about been scared to shout about the fact your horse has strangles because of peoples attitudes about it,things like this are part and parcel of equine ownership as it is with been a mum and kids catching things.


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

bugaboo said:



			Nobody is saying its ok for a yard to be negligent all people are saying is it happens and its something you take on board when you own a horse im still shocked you dont have your horse insured,even my rabbit is insured.
		
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I am very careful with my horse, I have a lifetimes experience of horse, I only do happy hacking, I am therefor a low risk owner, in the last five years, i have had five horse on loan or of my own.
Before I took my horse to this yard I asked about isolation and about experience and qualifications of staff.
In the last five years,  have only called the vet out for routine stuff (that is until the strangles).
I use a world class farrier
The teeth are inspected by a specialist.
He has had the horse whisperer who also does physio.
Previously my horses were noted for looking happy, fit and well, due to grooming, feed and exercise.
The point is I prefer to pay for my horse to be looked after,  rather than pay for insurance, no matter how much insurance, it would have a limit, and then it would be useless. Also the insurance companies would not always pay out, so I would have to be prepared to pay vets bill anyway.


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## bugaboo (18 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I am very careful with my horse, I have a lifetimes experience of horse, I only do happy hacking, I am therefor a low risk owner, in the last five years, i have had five horse on loan or of my own.
Before I took my horse to this yard I asked about isolation and about experience and qualifications of staff.
I have only called the vet out for routine stuff (that is until the strangles).
I use a world class farrier
The teeth are inspected by a specialist.
He has has the horse whisperer.
Previously my horses are noted for looking fit and well, due to grooming, feed and exercise.
The point is I prefer to pay for my horse to be looked after,  rather than pay for insurance, no matter how much insurance, it would have a limit, and then it would be useless.
		
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Thats your call but for me any responsible owner insures all animals owned by them,you never know when that one thing you cant control [i.e your current situation] or cant afford crops up.And as for it been useless you would be amazed how much insurers will pay out for a completely well looked after and fit horse when jay got him PSD they paid for everything going into thousands.


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

frozzy said:



			It was going round the annan/Gretna/Carlisle area last heard.
		
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Correct,  it came in from Ireland, where horses are trailed round markets until they are cheap enough for a Scottish dealer to make a profit.


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Any illness is part of working with horses, your implied experience should inform you of that.
		
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I am not aware that illness is part of horse ownership, it is part of poor management that is for sure.
I have only called out the emergency vet to two cases of colic, other things like ligaments and cuts etc, do occur, but if you expose horse to barbed wire fences,  for example, then you get back to negligence/ignorance


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

frozzy said:



			MRS D123 can I ask which part of Scotland you are? 
Following on from your livery thread can I ask please why you are not keeping him where you proposed starting your livery business?
Just being interested really. Glad that your horse is now in a better place but are you sure he isnt still carrying strangles?
		
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In order to be sure is was not a carrier he had to suffer a scope and wash of the Gutteral Pouches; this is invasive and ghastly, he was knocked out for this, he had already been knocked out for a scalpel to cut open the lymph modes to allow the pus to drain, we caught all the yellow pus in a bucket, there was a lot of it.
I tried to get the estate next door to start up a grass livery, so I could take him there and run it properly!, but they decided cattle were more profitable.


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

bugaboo said:



			Thats your call but for me any responsible owner insures all animals owned by them,you never know when that one thing you cant control [i.e your current situation] or cant afford crops up.And as for it been useless you would be amazed how much insurers will pay out for a completely well looked after and fit horse when jay got him PSD they paid for everything going into thousands.
		
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In five years I would have paid out more than the vets bills, it is NOT about the bills, it is about the suffering and distress that was unnecessary, obviously people who pay insurance are happy to pay it, I prefer not to, as I have a limited budget.
If I had unlimited funds then I would pay for insurance well actually, I would not have to , would I?
I have seen horses insured, and going through all the procedures until the money runs out, sometimes it is in the horses' interest that it is put down to stop suffering and ensure it does not have a prolonged life just to prevent the owner, or the vet having to make a difficult decision.


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## bugaboo (18 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			In five years I would have paid out more than the vets bills, it is NOT about the bills, it is about the suffering and distress that was unnecessary, obviously people who pay insurance are happy to pay it, I prefer not to, as I have a limited budget.
If I had unlimited funds then I would pay for insurance. I have seen horses insured, and going through all the procedures until the money runs out, sometimes it is in the horses' interest that it is put down to stop suffering and ensure it does not have a prolonged life just to prevent the owner having to make a difficult decision.
		
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What aload of tripe


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## Spring Feather (18 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			If I had unlimited funds then I would pay for insurance.
		
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If you had unlimited funds you wouldn't be in need of insurance surely?  I don't have any of my horses insured because I can ride whatever the costs of vet bills are for them, however if I was in your situation where you were struggling to pay these costs then I would take out insurance.  You are a prime candidate for having equine insurance so that the funds are readily available when it's needed.


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

bugaboo said:



			What aload of tripe
		
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The trouble is that on this forum we are dealing with a lot of kiddies and people who know very little, but for sure they all have something to say.


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

Ladylina83 said:



			It's not ok it's a Sh#ter ! but the thing is you took a risk with not insuring your horse ! 

If I chose not to insure my horse I would think... now what will happen if a horse goes to camp and comes back to strangles !! Horses get infected end of. the biggest problem with strangles is that people do not communicate about it ... not the strangles itself.

It is seen to be this thing to hide away from but I have to say if it was my horse i would be petrified but I would also make damn sure that everyone knew their horses were at risk so that know one else felt the same as me !!
		
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You can now (April 2011)vaccinate against strangles if you want, it is recommended for horse who go to competitions


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			If you had unlimited funds you wouldn't be in need of insurance surely?  I don't have any of my horses insured because I can ride whatever the costs of vet bills are for them, however if I was in your situation where you were struggling to pay these costs then I would take out insurance.  You are a prime candidate for having equine insurance so that the funds are readily available when it's needed.
		
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Yes, please read the next line of my post which makes that very point. What if I insured for £5K and the bill was £6K, .......... I would be in exactly the same position. I have tried to say this time and time again, insurance is fine if if fits your requirements, it is a massive industry because it is profitable for the companies concerned, and these days vets will ask you , are you insured or not,,,,,,,,,, they need to know because treatment can be different.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (18 May 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			If you had unlimited funds you wouldn't be in need of insurance surely?
		
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Spot on!



Spring Feather said:



			I don't have any of my horses insured because I can ride whatever the costs of vet bills are for them
		
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Same as myself


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## The Fuzzy Furry (18 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			The trouble is that on this forum we are dealing with a lot of kiddies and people who know very little, but for sure they all have something to say.
		
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Mrs pot calling lady kettle methinks.....

Think I need to go to bed, too much tripe being waffled..........


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## Miss L Toe (18 May 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			I don't have any of my horses insured because I can ride whatever the costs of vet bills are for them, 




			OK what if one of your horses twisted a foreleg, this is repairable but would cost £120K, and it would be only able to walk in a field  for the rest of its life, would you pay?
		
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Click to expand...


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## bugaboo (18 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			The trouble is that on this forum we are dealing with a lot of kiddies and people who know very little, but for sure they all have something to say.
		
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Dear me put your toys back in the cot im far from a child and know enough to accept the fact horses may at some point in a lifetime contract strangles so na na na na na.

Oh and you dont need to send me anymore PM's cheers chucky ducky.


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## Spring Feather (18 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Yes, please read the next line of my post which makes that very point. What if I insured for £5K and the bill was £6K, .......... I would be in exactly the same position. I have tried to say this time and time again, insurance is fine if if fits your requirements, it is a massive industry because it is profitable for the companies concerned, and these days vets will ask you , are you insured or not,,,,,,,,,, they need to know because treatment can be different.
		
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I did read it.  You said you had limited funds, which is precisely why insurance works well because you only pay a small proportion each month.  If you insurance were to cover you for £5k worth of treatment but your bill came to £6k then you'd pay £1k and your insurance would pay £5k.  If you have no insurance and are on a limited budget your bill would be £6k if charged at insurance prices or £3k-£4k if you hold no insurance.  Either way you'd be b*ggered because you are on a limited budget.


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## bugaboo (18 May 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			I did read it.  You said you had limited funds, which is precisely why insurance works well because you only pay a small proportion each month.  If you insurance were to cover you for £5k worth of treatment but your bill came to £6k then you'd pay £1k and your insurance would pay £5k.  If you have no insurance and are on a limited budget your bill would be £6k if charged at insurance prices or £3k-£4k if you hold no insurance.  Either way you'd be b*ggered because you are on a limited budget.
		
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I can hear a brain exploding coming up with the next excuse!


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## Spring Feather (18 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:





Spring Feather said:



			I don't have any of my horses insured because I can ride whatever the costs of vet bills are for them, 




			OK what if one of your horses twisted a foreleg, this is repairable but would cost £120K, and it would be only able to walk in a field  for the rest of its life, would you pay?
		
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£120k for treatment on a twisted ankle lol!!!  Thanks you made me smile 

Click to expand...



Click to expand...


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## TheEquineOak (18 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I am very careful with my horse, I have a lifetimes experience of horse, I only do happy hacking, I am therefor a low risk owner, in the last five years, i have had five horse on loan or of my own.
Before I took my horse to this yard I asked about isolation and about experience and qualifications of staff.
In the last five years,  have only called the vet out for routine stuff (that is until the strangles).
I use a world class farrier
The teeth are inspected by a specialist.
He has had the horse whisperer who also does physio.
Previously my horses were noted for looking happy, fit and well, due to grooming, feed and exercise.
*The point is I prefer to pay for my horse to be looked after,  rather than pay for insurance, no matter how much insurance, it would have a limit, and then it would be useless. Also the insurance companies would not always pay out, so I would have to be prepared to pay vets bill anyway*.
		
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OH
MY
GOD


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## bugaboo (18 May 2011)

Spring Feather said:





MrsD123 said:





Spring Feather said:



			I don't have any of my horses insured because I can ride whatever the costs of vet bills are for them, 
£120k for treatment on a twisted ankle lol!!!  Thanks you made me smile 

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Had to really bite my tounge on that one lol
		
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Click to expand...


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## Tinypony (18 May 2011)

LOL!  She still hasn't said what she wants to get out of posting the original thread.  Don't feed.  She just waits until it dies down and then comes on to stir it up and enjoy the reactions again.


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## horsesatemymoney (18 May 2011)

are you going to get insurance for your livery yard, to cover you should somebody make a claim against your business?


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## Javabb94 (18 May 2011)

"it was going round the Gretna/Annan/Carlisle area last heard"

I bloody hope not......
When was this?? 
Has it been confirmed??

I know it was in south Scotland not Carlisle however :/


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## Amaranta (18 May 2011)

I really don't know why people are wasting their time with this woman, you cannot reason with the unreasonable.

The OP changes her tune/mind constantly, first she tells us she has a lifetime of experience with horses and in the next breath says she has loaned/owned for only five years.  It is pretty obvious that she has no real experience but is a know it all with a blame mentality - leave her to her ramblings.


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## teasle (19 May 2011)

But the op posts on other threads and seems very sensible on those other threads , am confused.


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## Miss L Toe (19 May 2011)

Amaranta said:



			I really don't know why people are wasting their time with this woman, you cannot reason with the unreasonable.

The OP changes her tune/mind constantly, first she tells us she has a lifetime of experience with horses and in the next breath says she has loaned/owned for only five years.  It is pretty obvious that she has no real experience but is a know it all with a blame mentality - leave her to her ramblings.
		
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Yes I have worked as a professional for many years, but have owned and loaned ponies for the last five years, the last five years I have been in "livery yards",before that I got paid to do the job, and had mega experience.


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## Spyda (19 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			...... and _ had mega experience._

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_

"Mega" experience!??? How old are you? _


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## Amymay (19 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Yes I have worked as a professional for many years
		
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			before that I got paid to do the job, and had mega experience.
		
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Yet don't consider 'illness' as part of the horse owning experience.

Odd.


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## jeeve (19 May 2011)

surely time to drop this thread


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## Miss L Toe (19 May 2011)

jeeve said:



			surely time to drop this thread
		
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i agree, I am only answering with pm, I rather assumed that meant private messaging, but not so on this forum!


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## Baggybreeches (19 May 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			In order to be sure is was not a carrier he had to suffer a scope and wash of the Gutteral Pouches; this is invasive and ghastly, he was knocked out for this, he had already been knocked out for a scalpel to cut open the lymph modes to allow the pus to drain, we caught all the yellow pus in a bucket, there was a lot of it.
I tried to get the estate next door to start up a grass livery, so I could take him there and run it properly!, but they decided cattle were more profitable.
		
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Absolute utter nonsense!
My horse recently had a scope and a gutteral pouches wash, he required no sedation he was held in stocks but not even given sedalin, he was scoped twice in a fortnight and neither time was he sedated.
Also it is perfectly feasible to lance pus, I have only ever seen or heard of it being lanced with a needle, and never with a scalpel (why would you make an incision instead of a drain hole?)
And might I suggest that not only are cattle more profitable than horses, they also carry less of an 'idiotic livery risk'!


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## Spyda (19 May 2011)

*MrsD123: please dont send me PM's.* 

Not sure why you're PM'ing me personally?


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## Amymay (19 May 2011)

Spyda said:



*MrsD123: please dont send me PM's.* 

Not sure why you're PM'ing me personally?
		
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Ditto


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## hayinamanger (19 May 2011)

Why is this ridiculous thread still running?


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## Damnation (19 May 2011)

jesus Wept!!! 32 pages?!!!!


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## glitterbug (19 May 2011)

Well reading that has just brightened up my dull boring morning at work  
Maybe for all those struggling with Mrs D ought to read the thread in soapbox about dealing with dementia he he


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## benson21 (19 May 2011)

glitterbug said:



			Well reading that has just brightened up my dull boring morning at work  



Do you know, I was just about to say the same!!!!

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## fatpiggy (19 May 2011)

Clearly a complete fruitcake and as they claim to live on a island, probably an example of inbreeding.

Seems that the pony living in squalid conditions in a bog now loves rolling in the mud - no change there then.  A happy hacker but is fed lots of lovely oats...riighhtt...  a horse which loves to kiss and cuddle mares ...oh dear... local anaesthetic to lance the strangles abscess- really? You just poultice them until they burst of their own accord. The would only be lanced if they were affecting the horse's breathing and you certainly wouldn't bother with anaesthetic - where you would put the needle ? in the abscess so it doesn't feel the lancing, oh but that means you've burst the thing anyway.

You have to feel sorry for people like this. Totally away with the fairies and they must live a really sad life if they have to get their jollys trolling on websites.


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## Penny Less (19 May 2011)

Dont know where you live fatpiggy but england is an island !


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## scheherazade (19 May 2011)

Sorry to be pedantic but Great Britain is an island - England is a country that has Scotland stuck to its head and Wales stuck to its hips


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## DragonSlayer (19 May 2011)

fatpiggy said:



			Clearly a complete fruitcake and as they claim to live on a island, probably an example of inbreeding.

You have to feel sorry for people like this. Totally away with the fairies and they must live a really sad life if they have to get their jollys trolling on websites.
		
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Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye!

All UK residents are probably an example of inbreeding!

You claim the OP is away with the fairies, the way you are ranting, I reckon you might be too!

Sure, you can get incensed with an issue, but don't let it cloud your own sanity.....


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## jsr (19 May 2011)

I live on an Island...does that make me a fruit loop????


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## Elbie (19 May 2011)

scheherazade said:



			Sorry to be pedantic but Great Britain is an island - England is a country that has Scotland stuck to its head and Wales stuck to its hips
		
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I remember when my Scottish dad corrected me over something like that. I said "England, Scotland...same difference really". He was not amused lol


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## fatpiggy (19 May 2011)

Dear Dragonslayer, lord, if you think that is an example of me ranting ...  Looking back at the thread alot of people have "ranted" far more than me.  And as for being away with the fairies, ooh, how I wish that was so. Then I wouldn't have so many things to worry about, the health of my horse being the main one, closely followed by my own.

When the OP said she lived on an island, I'd wondered if she meant Guernsey since strangles was reported there recently.  Seemingly it is off the coast of Scotland, or so she implies. I'm surprised any dealer from Ireland bothers, as I can't believe the population there would justify shipping horses over.  You'd probably not cover the shipping costs for a start, so I'm not sure I believe that bit of the OP's story either.

We can only pray that in fact they are just making the whole lot up and there isn't some poor equine who has been lumbered with that idiot as an owner. Perhaps we should splice this thread in with the one about "things you've heard horse owners say"???


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## cronkmooar (19 May 2011)

jsr said:



 I live on an Island...does that make me a fruit loop????
		
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So do I - but don't worry we are not fruit loops ...................... we are inbred mutants


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