# Top Hats, Bowlers and Pateys



## Greys (12 April 2015)

I'm interested in the correct etiquette for top hats, bowlers and pateys? What colours do you wear? When do you wear them? What heights?

Also your personal opinions? Do you love/hate them? Any funny stories? How do you keep them on? Best makers?

Does anyone know of anyone hunting in a flat cap?!?!

I'm not massively interested in the safety aspects, I am already aware of many of these, I think people should always be informed but can wear what they like!


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## Shay (12 April 2015)

A top hat and veil is correct with a side saddle.  Pateys are - arguably - the most correct hunt hat for both genders.  I haven't seen anyone (other than a side saddle rider) hunt in a top hat or a bowler.  I have spotted our huntsman in a flat cap - but not when the field is looking.  

I won't rehearse the safety arguments, but bear in mind that adult hunt members set an example for the younger riders which can mean wearing a proper safety hat.  (If you are not an adult then you have to wear a correct hat on the roads anyway - but I presume you are!)  Also that if you fall and do yourself damage you ruin not only your day but also the day for those who have to stop and help you, return your horse etc.  Not to mention what you might do to your family and friends if you suffer a serious head injury.

Yes we should have a choice in what we wear.  But we should also exercise that choice responsibly.


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## Countryman (12 April 2015)

Never seen anybody hunt in a flat cap. Seen a few top hats on big meets such as Boxing Day. Think they were originally worn by gentleman subscribers. I think Bowlers were originally for farmers, but I have seen lady subscribers wear bowlers all season, and a male Master wear his for all pre-opening meet Autumn Hunting.


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## Sherston (12 April 2015)

Traditionally - i.e. many years ago (and very generalised):

Hunt staff, masters - hunt caps
Gentlemen - Cub hunting - bowler hat and rat catcher (and after Cheltenham or 1st March depending on the pack)
Gentlemen - full season - top / silk hat and scarlet or black
Farmers - hunt caps (as a concession as cheaper than a silk hat) Landowners would be Gentleman 
Ladies - side saddle cub hunting - bowler hat - tweed habit
Ladies - side saddle full season - silk hat and veil - blue / black habit
Ladies - astride - bowler hat through out

The above would be text book but not universal, ever since 1919 there has been an effort to make hunting within the reach of everyone and although the above would be more common in the shires rather than the more provincial packs there are plenty of pictures of all sorts of variations 

Sherston


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## JDH01 (12 April 2015)

I am an adult and ride every day as well as hunt in my Patey, it hAs never come off in a fall and has been refurbished twice, I love mine and am fully aware of all others objections so please don't worry.  I have to say I have a champion skull cap which is fully up to spec and worn when full spec hats are needed which I can't bare.


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## Greys (13 April 2015)

Thanks for all your reply's


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## Kat (13 April 2015)

I have seen a few top hats out with the South Notts in the past.


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## Dunlin (14 April 2015)

This season I have seen a couple of ladies in top hats with a veil as they were riding side saddle, 1 gentleman in a top hat, 1 in a bowler and a large number in Pateys (or the equivalent). At a farmers meet there was a chap riding in a tweed flat cap. I personally do love the look of the traditions, ladies in full dress side saddle and the rest in Pateys but I do understand some prefer the safety of a skull cap or a velvet with a harness. I used to ride in a Patey but I now have skull hat, I wouldn't say no to the new Patey with a flesh coloured harness though!

I have seen a few velvets without a harness come off in my time, 1 chap did lose his cap in some tree branches, he stayed on the horse and the hat stayed in the tree.

There was 1 occassion where a rider wearing a velvet with no harness (cannot be sure of make) did suffer fatal head injuries in a fall where the choice of hat was deemed to be a contributing factor to their injuries but the most common injury I have seen "due to hats" is actually broken and/or bloodied noses usually accompanied by a black eye or two due to fixed peaks, something I have suffered myself which again is a reason why I prefer a skull hat but I never like the look of it for hunting or competitions to be honest.


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## RunToEarth (15 April 2015)

A few of ours decide to come out in a topper or side saddle for boxing day - odd that they just pick one day to change their usual hunting dress. I hunt in a Patey and I am aware of the risks.


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## spottybotty (15 April 2015)

Sherston said:



			Traditionally - i.e. many years ago (and very generalised):

Hunt staff, masters - hunt caps
Gentlemen - Cub hunting - bowler hat and rat catcher (and after Cheltenham or 1st March depending on the pack)
Gentlemen - full season - top / silk hat and scarlet or black
Farmers - hunt caps (as a concession as cheaper than a silk hat) Landowners would be Gentleman 
Ladies - side saddle cub hunting - bowler hat - tweed habit
Ladies - side saddle full season - silk hat and veil - blue / black habit
Ladies - astride - bowler hat through out

The above would be text book but not universal, ever since 1919 there has been an effort to make hunting within the reach of everyone and although the above would be more common in the shires rather than the more provincial packs there are plenty of pictures of all sorts of variations 

Sherston
		
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I can remember my mother wearing a bowler hat for hunting atride   , I thought side-saddle was Silk hat and veil for married ladies and bowlers for unmarried in Full season?


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## AMY_BRYAN (12 May 2015)

spottybotty said:



			I can remember my mother wearing a bowler hat for hunting atride   , I thought side-saddle was Silk hat and veil for married ladies and bowlers for unmarried in Full season?
		
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its is only correct for a lady to hunt in a silk hat if she has hunt buttons, otherwise it is correct attire to wear a bowler, married ladies are correct in wearing a black habit side saddle, unmarried in a navy habit


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## Greys (13 May 2015)

Thanks for all your info! xx


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## pennandh (20 January 2016)

AMY_BRYAN said:



			its is only correct for a lady to hunt in a silk hat if she has hunt buttons, otherwise it is correct attire to wear a bowler, married ladies are correct in wearing a black habit side saddle, unmarried in a navy habit
		
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I was always taught silk hats were to be worn by married subscribers (buttons or no) at or after the opening meet; black bowlers for all unmarried ladies and married visitors; and brown bowlers with ratcatcher habits for cubbing. Veils should be the same colour as the hat, save that older ladies may choose a navy veil over a black one, should they so desire, as it is more flattering. 

Then again, the people I know who hunt aside wear velvet safety helmets (as is my own plan for when I take H out), and you can't really wear a veil with one (plus your bun usually ends up closer to your collar than absolutely ideal, but it's all in the name of safety).


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## Judgemental (20 January 2016)

Sherston said:



			Traditionally - i.e. many years ago (and very generalised):

Hunt staff, masters - hunt caps
Gentlemen - Cub hunting - bowler hat and rat catcher (and after Cheltenham or 1st March depending on the pack)
Gentlemen - full season - top / silk hat and scarlet or black
Farmers - hunt caps (as a concession as cheaper than a silk hat) Landowners would be Gentleman 
Ladies - side saddle cub hunting - bowler hat - tweed habit
Ladies - side saddle full season - silk hat and veil - blue / black habit
Ladies - astride - bowler hat through out

The above would be text book but not universal, ever since 1919 there has been an effort to make hunting within the reach of everyone and although the above would be more common in the shires rather than the more provincial packs there are plenty of pictures of all sorts of variations 

Sherston
		
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None of the above if you value your safety.

State of the art crash hat with jockey style cheek and chin strap.


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## Goldenstar (21 January 2016)

Judgemental said:



			None of the above if you value your safety.

State of the art crash hat with jockey style cheek and chin strap.
		
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Sadly this right , after my OH asked me to following a friend getting a nasty bang on the head I joined the harness club .
I had no good argument for continuing with the Patey other than it looked great ,yes it would not have come off then neither would my favourite fleece hat and that would not help my head .
So my Patey is in it's box in my cupboard I open the box and give it a stroke now and again .


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## Orangehorse (21 January 2016)

Fascinating thread.  Oh how easy it was to fall foul of the rules.  I made a light hearted comment about a Lady Master not wearing a Pink coat (probably got that wrong!) and was well ticked-off by the grand-daughter of a well known Lady Master that lady masters wear black coats and surely everyone knew that!  I crawled away, shamefaced.


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## Goldenstar (21 January 2016)

Orangehorse said:



			Fascinating thread.  Oh how easy it was to fall foul of the rules.  I made a light hearted comment about a Lady Master not wearing a Pink coat (probably got that wrong!) and was well ticked-off by the grand-daughter of a well known Lady Master that lady masters wear black coats and surely everyone knew that!  I crawled away, shamefaced.
		
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Well I have always thought it's unfair lady masters don't get to wear pink coats .


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## Judgemental (21 January 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			Well I have always thought it's unfair lady masters don't get to wear pink coats .
		
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It would send the wrong message in certain quarters.


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