# Kiddnapped horse!



## ant121 (16 March 2013)

Help: 
I moved to this yard not long ago about 4 months about we have never had a problem until this one women accused us of bullying, anyway the situation was 'sorted' out supposedly. From that point on there has been a very funny atmosphere and we have been ignored on several different occasions. So we decided that to save everyone the hassle we would just move the horse.
So we found our new stables and decided to move. On the day of moving we went down to the yard to take our horse tack and anything we own, when we turned up we found that they have locked my horse in its stable and changed the locks to the tack room. We kindly asked them to remove the lock and to give us our stuff but they refused saying we own them all sorts of money when we don't. They called the police and said they wanted us off their property and have been using threating behaviour. We said we were not going until she unlocks the horse and let us care for it. 
The police told us we had to leave and shes has agreed to look after my horse. This women has had many horses shot for not being good enough and has giving overdoses of illegal drugs to horse that have sent them abit loopy. We are honestly very worried at the fact she has our horse and can give anything to it. She also owns another yard where she could move my horse to and I have no clue where it is. So where do we take it from hear do we get the RSPCA involved or the police or do we take it to court? Also my daughter work for them for the past 4 months and has never had any money off them for her time or effort and she also road one of her horses in a competition to gain points on it.
As much help is needed to get what is mine back, Im more worried about what she can do to my horse.......


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## Wagtail (16 March 2013)

Do you have a livery contract? Does your daughter have a contract of employment?


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## unbalanced (16 March 2013)

Why did you keep your horse there if you knew the woman was a bit loopy?

What does your contract say? Are you a member of the BHS? If so, you can contact their legal helpline for free.


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## mynutmeg (16 March 2013)

I would be countering with the police as in effect they are stealing your horse and tack


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## kaluki (16 March 2013)

watching with interest.


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## Dizzydancer (16 March 2013)

Contact the police if you have a contract then show them also show your bank statements with payments out, if you don't have a contract Im not sure what you can do


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## Amymay (16 March 2013)

Go back to the police. As their fond of telling people,  it's a civil matter and you can't be prevented from taking your belongings.


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## Kazza1 (16 March 2013)

Go to the police station and show them the horses passport (with you name on it...hopefully..?) A passport isnt definitive proof that you own the horse but it will help!


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## Bettyboo1976 (16 March 2013)

Really???


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## Charley657 (16 March 2013)

I feel sick to my stomach reading this and I really hope you get your horse back soon.  

Are you absolutely sure you don't owe this woman anything?  Locking a horse up all day is pretty drastic action to take considering they didn't seem to like you so you'd think they be happy you were moving yards.

If you are 100% sure you don't owe them anything, get a solicitor and go back to the police.  

Keep us updated on what happens.


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## Elsiecat (16 March 2013)

Get a solicitor. 

Failing that, the horse is your property and you can't be stopped to retrieve it. Bolt cutters and a quiet yard.


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## springtime13 (16 March 2013)

If the police won't help go and take back what is yours. I'm sure that if you have to cut padlocks and leave a like for like replacement then she couldn't accuse you of criminal damage (don't quote me on that but it does seem reasonable)


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## Amymay (16 March 2013)

Where are you op?


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## Barney&Buzz (16 March 2013)

Oh very dear.


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## Whoopit (16 March 2013)

I really feel for you.

As someone else has already said, or similar, report her for theft! You have your horses passport and if he's registered to you (all cop shop will need to do is call the office ned is registered with and ask them the name of the registered keeper) and you can prove ID to police, she'd have to let him go.


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## Mrs. Jingle (16 March 2013)

Hmmmmm, not good at all.


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## blueeyed20girl (16 March 2013)

were abouts are you? pm if needed as this situation sounds very similar to one i have known about.


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## Luci07 (16 March 2013)

"says we owe money but we don't"? 

So, ask for a proper written breakdown of what she thinks is outstanding and debate from there.


Sorry, will try not to prejudge but this could so easily have been someone else posting saying "bloody liveries, causing aggro and then tried to do a flit without paying"..


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## L&M (16 March 2013)

If that was my horse I would ask how much I 'supposedly'  owe - pay it, and get the horse the hell out of there. I would rather lose money than risk the welfare of my horse and leave them in the hands of somone I couldn't trust.

Horrible situation but can't but wonder if there are 2 sides to this story....


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## russianhorse (16 March 2013)

I'd go back to the police (go higher if need be) and tell them your horse is being held and you wish to retrieve your property

If that fails, I'd get a few people together, with some bolt cutters and personally remove your horse

Good luck OP


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## Littlelegs (16 March 2013)

So the yo has gone to the trouble of changing the locks between you leaving at night & coming back the next morning? Sounds like a massive over reaction. And how come you left the wages issue 4 mnths till you were leaving?


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## ant121 (16 March 2013)

Wagtail said:



			Do you have a livery contract? Does your daughter have a contract of employment?
		
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we don't have any contracts with the owner none for the livery or for the work.


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## ant121 (16 March 2013)

unbalanced said:



			Why did you keep your horse there if you knew the woman was a bit loopy?

What does your contract say? Are you a member of the BHS? If so, you can contact their legal helpline for free.
		
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we was never warned about this women she only has one other livery, only in the past week have we been informed about her overdosing this horse and then having it shot by 'cowboys' (two men turned up shot the horse and took the body)  no vets or anything.


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## ant121 (16 March 2013)

blueeyed20girl said:



			were abouts are you? pm if needed as this situation sounds very similar to one i have known about.
		
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what action should I take?


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## Mrs. Jingle (16 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			we was never warned about this women she only has one other livery, only in the past week have we been informed about her overdosing this horse and then having it shot by 'cowboys' (two men turned up shot the horse and took the body)  no vets or anything.
		
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Well it could just have been the hunt came out to dispatch the horse and remove the body, all quite normal and above board. Are you personally aware of actually seeing her overdosing the horse, and with what? What might have seemed like an overdose to someone, might actually have been a legitimate attempt to save the horse, depending on what the problem was?

But you have been there for several months, your daughter has worked there, but only now you are concerned about her and your horse's wellbeing? I would think if she went to the expense of new locks, and she also called the police to send you on your way, there is another side to this story.

Something just isn't right about this IMO.


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## Slightlyconfused (16 March 2013)

I'm not saying anything otjet than.

Patterdale, Patterdale where art thou. We are usually of the same mind about these things.....


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## Roasted Chestnuts (16 March 2013)

Get bolt cutters, a crowbar or an electric screwdriver, take the lock/bolt/hasp or door off and take your stuff.

Doesnt sound like the whole story to me and the language has changed so sitting well back and watching.


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## ant121 (16 March 2013)

MrsJingle said:



			Well it could just have been the hunt came out to dispatch the horse and remove the body, all quite normal and above board. Are you personally aware of actually seeing her overdosing the horse, and with what? What might have seemed like an overdose to someone, might actually have been a legitimate attempt to save the horse, depending on what the problem was?

But you have been there for several months, your daughter has worked there, but only now you are concerned about her and your horse's wellbeing? I would think if she went to the expense of new locks, and she also called the police to send you on your way, there is another side to this story.

Something just isn't right about this IMO.
		
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My daughter who has worked with this women, she drew this drug out of a bottle and give it to the horse after 10 minuets the horse didn't no react so she drew up the same amount and gave it to the horse, the horse reacting by fitting and not being able to stand up, she did this just to clip a horse. My daughter and two other girl saw this, when she told me I immediately started looking for another stables and trying to move. this situation only happened last week so we took action fast, she changed the code on the padlock to the frount gate and the tack and put a lock on my stable.


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## slumdog (16 March 2013)

Surely the police would have said it was a civil matter and wouldn't have got involved? We had a car on lease and missed a payment (oops, it happens) so the company promptly phoned the police, who phoned us and asked if our car was stolen (no, I'm looking at it out of the window) they then spoke to the lease company and told them it was a civil matter and nothing to do with the police (we caught up on the missed payment and all was fine for anyone who thinks I may be a car thief lol) 
Sounds odd to me, sorry.

If its true, I'd take some bolt cutters and go and get my horse. Surely it's costing her more to basically keep it on full livery for you than to just let you take it even if you do owe her money?


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## cambrica (16 March 2013)

I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I don't believe a word of it!


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## hoofie (16 March 2013)

Hi am a new member but saw your post and had to reply. Same thing happened me with my pony. We did owe 500 to the yard owner cos we bought the pony from her and were keeping it in her yard but we agreed we would pay it when she gave us the passport. She decided 4 months later she didn't want to sell and we went up to talk to her but same as you the stable was locked up and we couldn't even see the pony. I went up the next day with a few friends and took my pony out. The yo called guards and the guards said we shouldn't have trespassed in the yard. He also told yo she can't cancel sale when money had already been handed over. He said it was a civil matter and to fight it out in court. Long story short we handed over the money owed and left. 
I would definitely be going in there and taking my horse out!! Before we did it i rang the guards and told them what i was doing and his reply was if it was me i'd prob do the same.good luck


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (16 March 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Get a solicitor. 

Failing that, the horse is your property and you can't be stopped to retrieve it. Bolt cutters and a quiet yard.
		
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Ditto legal advice: but be sure to get a good solicitor and not one who'll faff around, if that's the way you're gonna go.

But if you're going to get your horse out of there: be prepared. Have your transport sorted and waiting nearby with the engine running; ideally have a witness and/or someone to film the proceedings. 

But I find it difficult to accept that the police can just stand by and let this happen? But then I guess their fave excuse of "civil matter" usually kicks in.


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## EffyCorsten (16 March 2013)

I do think you need to contact her and ask for a full breakdown of what she thinks you owe and why she thinks you owe it. And you should get bank statements to prove you are up to date odds are then one of you is going to have to accept it and either let your horse go or pay. If not get a solicitor and take her to court. She then shouldn't be able to send your horse to auction and you should be able to prove to the court that you are in the right and get your horse and tack back. I'm not sure who will have the upper hand without there being a contract but perhaps a verbal contract is in place? you will need to move quickly as with proof that you don't owe her money she is able to seize property and take your horse to auction to cover what costs she thinks she has incurred and the debt she says you owe.


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## FionaM12 (16 March 2013)

Saying "We kindly asked them to remove the lock and to give us our stuff" just doesn't have the ring of truth to it. If I went to my yard and found Mollie and her tack locked from me I'd be frantic and very angry! I'm normally a quiet, polite person but I wouldn't be "kindly asking".


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## ant121 (16 March 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			Saying "We kindly asked them to remove the lock and to give us our stuff" just doesn't have the ring of truth to it. If I went to my yard and found Mollie and her tack locked from me I'd be frantic and very angry! I'm normally a quiet, polite person but I wouldn't be "kindly asking". 

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guns all blazing approach wasn't our way off going........


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## ant121 (16 March 2013)

EffyCorsten said:



			I do think you need to contact her and ask for a full breakdown of what she thinks you owe and why she thinks you owe it. And you should get bank statements to prove you are up to date odds are then one of you is going to have to accept it and either let your horse go or pay. If not get a solicitor and take her to court. She then shouldn't be able to send your horse to auction and you should be able to prove to the court that you are in the right and get your horse and tack back. I'm not sure who will have the upper hand without there being a contract but perhaps a verbal contract is in place? you will need to move quickly as with proof that you don't owe her money she is able to seize property and take your horse to auction to cover what costs she thinks she has incurred and the debt she says you owe.
		
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we pay the women in cash and do not have a contract or proof that we have gave her the money or haven't


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## carthorse (16 March 2013)

What a load of rubbish.


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## ant121 (16 March 2013)

Black Beastie said:



			Get bolt cutters, a crowbar or an electric screwdriver, take the lock/bolt/hasp or door off and take your stuff.

Doesnt sound like the whole story to me and the language has changed so sitting well back and watching.
		
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we do not want to go in and cut the bolt off ourselves as we can be done for criminal damage/trespassing.


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## PorkChop (16 March 2013)

Ridiculous ....


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## ant121 (16 March 2013)

carthorse said:



			What a load of rubbish.
		
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what is?


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## Roasted Chestnuts (16 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			we do not want to go in and cut the bolt off ourselves as we can be done for criminal damage/trespassing.
		
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If you really want the horse and tack then you wouldnt give a fig for this. I know I wouldnt if some nutter had locked my horse in the stable. Film it, take the horse and get the hell out of there. 

After the above I think you are a troll and Im not the first usually to come to that conclusion I give the benefit of the doubt but this is definatey BS


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## Slightlyconfused (16 March 2013)

It's not a very good troll either......can't spell rode!


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## EffyCorsten (16 March 2013)

It is a bit odd, I'd happily bury her in the muck heap and break my horse free and happily go to court for criminal damage, I'd do it for any of my animal family! 

if it is true then just break your horse free and take your stuff she can call the cops on you, you'd be gone when they got there anyway she can't physically stop you without assaulting you. 

Again if it is true neither of you can prove the other wrong so the courts more than likely wouldn't do anything anyway. 

Get your horse out before it goes to market and make sure you sign a contract and get receipts in future.


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## FionaM12 (16 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			guns all blazing approach wasn't our way off going........
		
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Nor mine usually but there are limits. I'm just amazed that you remained so calm and self-controlled even though you'd been unfairly accused of bullying, lies about money were being told and now your horse was being kept from you.


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## slumdog (16 March 2013)

If she put a padlock on the front gate how did you get in to find out the stable and tackroom had been padlocked?


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## flump (16 March 2013)

I'd be bashing the stable door down and removing my horse then I'd be bashing the tack room door down! I would never ever leave my horses in that position and would cause hell untill I had my horse back!!


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## bouncing_ball (16 March 2013)

Not in Godstone by any chance?


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## Queenbee (16 March 2013)

If it were me, I would be up there taking a crowbar to the door to get my horse, the tack I would deal with later.  Now many people would say thats not the way to handle it but * that! I would have my horse off their land and sod the consequences.  Furthermore, to lock a horse into a stable is dangerous.


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## Littlelegs (16 March 2013)

You don't want to go in with all guns blazing, but you are happy to discuss the yo in a negative manner, with enough detail for the yo to be recognized on a large internet forum? Not exactly logical is it?


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## suffolkmare (16 March 2013)

so you found the front gate padlocked, but could get in to find the tack room lock changed and a lock on your stable door...but not clever enough to get a contract/something in writing for the livery...
I smell a troll...
BTW Police/RSPCA should be concerned about horse being locked in the stable as it would suffer should a fire break out.


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## Queenbee (16 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			we do not want to go in and cut the bolt off ourselves as we can be done for criminal damage/trespassing.
		
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FGS!  seriously?!  then leave the horse where it is and walk away!

Sheesh, Id be in Killer mode!


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## kaluki (16 March 2013)

slightlyconfused said:



			It's not a very good troll either......can't spell rode! 

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thats whay i thought, but just kept quiet! 
still watching with interest!


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## Fii (16 March 2013)

I would get the police and the RSPCA (maybe) to meet you at the yard and inform them that you are taking the horse back with them there, then get on with it get the horse and your belongings...that is if you really dont owe the livery owner money, if you do then bleddy pay it!!


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## Delicious_D (16 March 2013)

no imagination whatsoever....

ETA: if the Yo was that bad...why stay their till your notice was up? If you were that worried about the wellbeing of the horse, why not walk?

If anyone took or locked away dee or my tack, they would be very sorry for it!!!


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 March 2013)

What a load of ****....if that was one of my horses I would probably be arrested for my actions...!!!!!


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## maree t (16 March 2013)

and the daughter has worked there for months with no pay ...... yawn, cant wait until the easter hols


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## SNORKEY (16 March 2013)

I work for the police, and tbh it is a civil matter. At the end of the day the yard owner has ceased goods (the horse) as they believe they are owed money. You need to contact the RSPCA, not that their any good, and make them aware you concerned for the horses welfare, call the BHS for advice and a solicitor. If things get ugly, ie. threats or you want police present whilst you attend the yard to prevent any breech of the peace then they will help you.
If you don't owe this person anything then you could say the horse has been stolen, but as soon as police realise the other lady is saying you owe money it does become civil.


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## noodle_ (16 March 2013)

has the holidays started early?!!!




troll.........................there i said it!!


if this was actually geunine - id be asking my nice 4 HUGE male friends to come with me and a pair of bolt cutters to get the horse and tack back...........


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## nosenseofdirection (16 March 2013)

If the stable door is locked then this is dangerous as no-one can get to your horse in the event of an emergency. It would also lead me to suspect that care is lacking as what happens if the groom doing the yard doesn't have the key? No feed/ water.

So I would be getting the horse out and arguing the toss later. You should be able to unscrew the bolt on the door without causing damage anyway. If not then cut the padlock and leave them a new one, as someone else already said.

Then when the horse is safe you can argue about who owes what to whom.

If your YO was sensible and you owed money (and I'm not saying you do), she would hold onto tack etc, fair enough. But no-one in their right mind would padlock a horse into a stable.


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## harveysmom (16 March 2013)

springtime13 said:



			If the police won't help go and take back what is yours. I'm sure that if you have to cut padlocks and leave a like for like replacement then she couldn't accuse you of criminal damage (don't quote me on that but it does seem reasonable)
		
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I think i agree i would risk being prosecuted for criminal damage but no one would be keeping my horse


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## ant121 (16 March 2013)

my husband and me went down to the yard to retrieve my horse when the police arrived they told us we had no right an due to my husbands size he was told if he didn't get off the yard he would be took away. there was no way of cutting her out the stable as had nothing to cut her out with so the plan was we were going to get some and come back, as we came back the gate were locked and the lock on the gate was changed so I checked to see if my horse was still on the yard and shes was no where to be seen.....


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## Roasted Chestnuts (16 March 2013)

Then call the police and report your horse has been stolen.


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## SNORKEY (16 March 2013)

If you repair any locks or bolts you break then you can't be done for criminal damage.


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## Littlelegs (16 March 2013)

The police said they would take away your husband due to his size? Wtf? Is this some new power the police have to arrest people for trespassing if they are above a certain weight?


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## ant121 (16 March 2013)

Littlelegs said:



			The police said they would take away your husband due to his size? Wtf? Is this some new power the police have to arrest people for trespassing if they are above a certain weight?
		
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due to the yard owner being a women and my husband being a 6ft6 man shes threw they intimidation one into to it they said he had to get of the property.


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## Goldenstar (16 March 2013)

Where is the passport.


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## noodle_ (16 March 2013)

if this IS geuine - ring the police and report as stolen

and then ask the woman for proof of "what you owe" (if anything........) if you have no contract she cannot prove anything..... can she??

just go tonight and get the horse back....bolt cutters and a few strong guys.....


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## Roasted Chestnuts (16 March 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			Where is the passport.
		
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Good point.


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## ant121 (17 March 2013)

noodle_ said:



			if this IS geuine - ring the police and report as stolen

and then ask the woman for proof of "what you owe" (if anything........) if you have no contract she cannot prove anything..... can she??

just go tonight and get the horse back....bolt cutters and a few strong guys.....
		
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Well what she has done now she has move the horse without my permission I have no clue where my horse is what she has done to it or if shes gave it to someone so we have reported it to the police and its now an on-going investigation to retrieve the horse.....


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## ant121 (17 March 2013)

Black Beastie said:



			Good point.
		
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I have the passport, we have a recite of sale from the people we bourght her off shes registered at our vets under our name.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (17 March 2013)

Good that you have called the police, what are they saying? So she has moved the horse without the passport? She has stolen your property, I'd be going in tomorrow with bolt cutters for my tack and belongings to hell with her and taking the police with me as that's theft.


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## webble (17 March 2013)

How do you know she has moved the horse?

I also find it very odd that you keep refering to your horse as just horse or it.


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## riding_high (17 March 2013)

if this is true then why wait around?
similar happened to me years ago, the yard owner put the horses out in the field and i went down in the night and took my 2, walked them down the road and loaded them. a week later the owner saw them missing (yep he was that observant!) and reported it to the police saying that i had stolen his horses. i told the police they were mine, showed them hundreds of photos in different places/yards, letters from previous owners etc (this was before passports) and they agreed that i hadn't stolen them. 
as it turned out the owner had a bad reputation for doing this, not so much for the money but more for the fun of watching owners suffer.


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## FionaM12 (17 March 2013)

webble said:



			I also find it very odd that you keep refering to your horse as just horse or it.
		
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good point. Most of us when we refer to our horses say "he" "she" or use their name.


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## slumdog (17 March 2013)

So yesterday between 5pm and 11pm (because when you posted originally it was still locked in its stable right?) while still commenting on here you went back down to now find she's moved your horse and it's nowhere to be seen?


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## smellsofhorse (17 March 2013)

This seems odd!

If I got to the yard and my horse was locked in.
I would have stood outside and waited for someone to go and collect some bolt cutters so nothing could happen without ne seeing.

Unless the police had proof that you owe money they would not 
be on YO side. Even then they usually keep out.

Sorry but you sound nieve and stupid or very young.

So I think you are a troll!


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## Clippy (17 March 2013)

If you own a horse and it's now gone missing, report it to the Police, get a crime reference number and put pics and description ALL OVER THE INTERNET!

If you were genuine you would have done that already. If someone held my horse or took him some place I didn't know, i'm afraid I would do more than winge on a forum, the whole world would know about it and the person who took him would be running for cover!


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## ant121 (17 March 2013)

we have been down to the police today and they have said they are going to send us (me and my husband) down to the yard with the police to see if my horse is there if she isn't then they will take the right action. also at I posted this post at 5 yeatserday 4 hourse later to ask for advice as I was told they had right to hold my horse so I came to ask for advice to do the right thing without cuasing any trouble.


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## Polos Mum (17 March 2013)

TBH if it was my horse 'missing' I would be causing a HUGE amount of trouble !  When I had my horse back (and ideally my stuff too but horse is critical) then I would calm down and deal politely with the police and/or court if necessary - who definitely have bigger things to worry about and I amazed have offered to get involved.  

In 99% of cases where horses are actually stolen they fob people off by claiming it's a civil matter (as they don't have resources to investigsate these) and they certainly don't get involved in debt collection issues (ie your YO claiming you owe them money and you claiming you don't)


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## Lambkins (17 March 2013)

If someone took my pony or child ...I would be screaming blue murder ..if they took the OH I would sit down have a cuppa ..and a slice of cake ..watch a little telly ...then scream blue murder ..I really hope u get this sorted ASAP op ..pay the money and right it off ..


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## mcnaughty (17 March 2013)

This is awful - poor horse - anything could be happening to it!

Personally, dead of night - couple of LARGE male friends and some bolt cutters.  Done!

Actually, how much money are we talking here?  Anything under £200 and I would probably just pay up and tick the "down to experience" box!


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## Tonks (17 March 2013)

Sorry, but this sounds fishy on all accounts and all round. This may be your interpretation of events but I suspect the yard owner has another one which is completely different from yours, speaking as a yard owner myself. I find it very 'ineteresting' that a YO (who has a reputation to upkeep) would easily enter into this type of situation unless provoked beyond reason.


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## FfionWinnie (17 March 2013)

cambrica said:



			I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I don't believe a word of it!
		
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No I don't either. My friend withheld a saddle over unpaid livery fees and the police made her give it back to the owner so I'm afraid, I do not believe that is that the police would resolve this.


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## russianhorse (17 March 2013)

I would have done exactly what balcanoo1900 would have done - not left visibility of the yard until I had all my equipment to get my horse out. I would even have phoned police from car etc etc


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## Theocat (17 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			I was told they had right to hold my horse
		
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But you say you don't owe them any money, which is the only possible grounds for any such "right" (and even then they might be on shaky ground without a contract stating they'll keep the horse until all money due is paid.)

How much do they say you owe them?  What for?


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## ant121 (17 March 2013)

FfionWinnie said:



			No I don't either. My friend withheld a saddle over unpaid livery fees and the police made her give it back to the owner so I'm afraid, I do not believe that is that the police would resolve this.
		
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the police have said to her that she can keep that horse until we go through legal procedures to get the money we apparently owe and settle it all, this could take weeks maybe months we have been band us from going to her land the police no where my mare is and  she has singed to say she has to take care for her feed her and look after her. The police have also said when my mare is returned is not how she was when she took her we can take her to court for it! we have been escorted off her land many times now trying to get this horse back we went up on the night to cut her out and she was no where to be seen! she also billing us for her to take care of my mare and exercise her on the livery yard.......as she is no longer on the livery yard she can no longer charge for livey there!


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## ant121 (17 March 2013)

Theocat said:



			But you say you don't owe them any money, which is the only possible grounds for any such "right" (and even then they might be on shaky ground without a contract stating they'll keep the horse until all money due is paid.)

How much do they say you owe them?  What for?
		
Click to expand...

they have billed us for things we do not owe, the police say they can not get involved with the welfare of the horse of the dispute of money as its a civil matter. the police have also told me she hasn't stole my horse off me as it was on her livey yard and she can take what she wants and hold it till we pay up. but they have also told me that she hasn't got a leg to stand on in court as we have no contract and no proof that we have paid or we haven't paid.


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## HBM1 (17 March 2013)

This all sounds completely mental, sorry.


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## Mrs. Jingle (17 March 2013)

".......but they have also told me that she hasn't got a leg to stand on in court as we have no contract and no proof that we have paid or we haven't paid." 

But then neither have you any proof either? If you cant prove you have paid her how are you going to question her claim? Surely she can also say whatever she likes so at the end of the day you could just as likely toss a coin to decide who keeps the horse?

".......as she is no longer on the livery yard she can no longer charge for livey there!"

Well the horse IS somewhere assumedly so, yes, she can charge for livery until you pay up?

".......until we go through legal procedures to get the money we apparently owe and settle it all, this could take weeks maybe months "

If you truly care about this poor horse, and you are as concerned as you claim to be at this woman's attitude to horses, then why not just settle the bill and take your horse home?


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## slumdog (17 March 2013)

How much do you owe? Can't you just pay it? Or at least offer to pay half to get her back but let them keep your tack?


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## Queenbee (17 March 2013)

slumdog said:



			How much do you owe? Can't you just pay it? Or at least offer to pay half to get her back but let them keep your tack?
		
Click to expand...

go to yard and take her horse, refuse to give it back 

if this is true no offence OP but more fool you for letting it get this far.  Are there any liveries on the yard that may tell you what has happened to your horse.

Oh and pay what you believe you owe, and then start court proceedings.


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## vieshot (17 March 2013)

Just pay back the money you owe.


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## Theocat (17 March 2013)

To be honest, even if you don't owe her money (and TBH I'm struggling to imagine a YO who will take on the care of someone's horse and go through a legal battle for the fun of it), the extra livery costs until this is settled are likely to outweigh any money owed (or not owed) in the first place.

I think I'd just pay up, and in future - at your new yard - insist on paying either by cheque or bank transfer, or getting receipts for cash so that you have a record, and insisting on monthly itemised bills for any extras, on time, so you always know where you stand, and have a paper trail for all bills and payments.  Sounds like a hassle, but less hassle that the current situation ... you've only been there four months, the amount under dispute can't be that enormous.

With regard to your daughter, she needs to make sure she has a contract in place for any future jobs, especially in the horse world where lots of people do work for free for the experience / enjoyment, and especially if it's conceivably a "work for rides" situation, which I bet is what's happened here.


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## Patterdale (17 March 2013)

I hope this isn't real! Finding it v hard to believe.....


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (17 March 2013)

Tonks said:



			Sorry, but this sounds fishy on all accounts and all round. This may be your interpretation of events but I suspect the yard owner has another one which is completely different from yours, speaking as a yard owner myself. I find it very 'ineteresting' that a YO (who has a reputation to upkeep) would easily enter into this type of situation unless provoked beyond reason.
		
Click to expand...

Mmmm....... me too I'm a YO and frankly wouldn't want to hang on to someone else's horse a minute longer than necessary.

Without wishing to pre-judge and/or make assumptions......... I seem to remember a Troll a while back which sounded a bit like this??? 

But perhaps I am being  ungenerousl; if so then sincere apologies. 

But am rearranging words like "sounds, as, fishy, a, mackeral, as, dead"..


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## EffyCorsten (17 March 2013)

So the police have let her move your horse without the passport??? 

Hmm..

What is your horses name? breed? age? and what does she say you owe and what for?


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## Sunshine (17 March 2013)

I would have thought that if the police had been involved originally and were quoting it to be a civil matter then they should have been equally likely to advise the YO that the outstanding debt was a civil matter, that the horse & tack should be released to owner and for YO to recoup losses via small claims (especially as no contract). Reading between the lines, IMO the reason the OP has had a less than satisfactory response from police is possibly because they didn't 'ask politely for the return of their property' and the claim of intimidation from YO possibly had some grounds when they returned with substantially built OH....


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## cindydog (17 March 2013)

My horse was on trial to buy and girl loaner owed 2 weeks livery, we paid as the livery owner would be out of pocket and we got our horse off the loaner. happy all round.


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## russianhorse (17 March 2013)

OP - how much does YO say you owe?


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## Oriel (18 March 2013)

We had a problem with a livery recently and, although the police were very helpful and did come to our home to discuss things with us, they said it was a civil matter and couldn't get involved. 

I don't believe they would have got involved in your dispute in the way you describe - there must be more to the story.


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## Bourbons (18 March 2013)

Is it just me, or is the OP avoiding answering questions when asked what breed etc their horses is...?


----------



## Natch (18 March 2013)

Not just you and not just those questions bourbon  I'm more interested to know why questions about what the YO thinks they haven't paid for and how much we are talking.


----------



## Jackster14 (18 March 2013)

I don't believe a word of it.


----------



## Amymay (18 March 2013)

I suspect that the YO has taken a lien against the horse.  Hence the inability of the police to act.

It will be interesting to see if the OP ever comes back and says how much is owing.

Either way OP - this is one for your solicitor if you are unable/unwilling to pay your livery bill.

As for the 'lack' of contract.  A contract doesn't have to be written on paper to be in place - it can be implied by verbal agreement and the process of payments given and received.  But of course, your solicitor will be able to confirm that for you.


----------



## Queenbee (18 March 2013)

amymay said:



			I suspect that the YO has taken a lien against the horse.  Hence the inability of the police to act.

It will be interesting to see if the OP ever comes back and says how much is owing.

Either way OP - this is one for your solicitor if you are unable/unwilling to pay your livery bill.

As for the 'lack' of contract.  A contract doesn't have to be written on paper to be in place - it can be implied by verbal agreement and the process of payments given and received.  But of course, your solicitor will be able to confirm that for you.
		
Click to expand...

What I find fishy is that apparently (I may have read this wrong) but yo will be exercising the horse and charging op for it for the duration of this incident.  Now seizing and caring for the horse, yes I can get that, but exercising it as part of such an issue... Nope never heard of that.


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## Patterdale (18 March 2013)

I suspect that if this IS true, and if the YO posted here......we'd probably agree with the YO.


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## Amymay (18 March 2013)

Patterdale said:



			I suspect that if this IS true, and if the YO posted here......we'd probably agree with the YO.
		
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to agree with you.


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## Queenbee (18 March 2013)

Patterdale said:



			I suspect that if this IS true, and if the YO posted here......we'd probably agree with the YO.
		
Click to expand...




amymay said:



			I'm inclined to agree with you.
		
Click to expand...

Yep me too, it's really very rare that a yo takes such drastic action... It's generally not financially worth their while.


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## stacey_lou (18 March 2013)

If it was me I would steel my own horse, go up one night snap the padlock off and take the horse. Tack you can afford to loose and replace but not your horse. 

Nothing would stand in m way of rescuing my horse


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## TrasaM (18 March 2013)

Oh er!
I opened this thread thinking that there were some evil enterprising peeps taking horses and then sending ransom notes using words cut out of magazines, saying "pay up or the pony gets it". 

As far as I know you cannot hold on to someone's possessions because they owe you money. Thats commonly known as theft. 
You have to prove in a court of law that money is owed first and then lay claim to property to recoup the debt. Nor is it possible to sell someone's property to recoup dept unless ownership has first been transferred.  Nemo dat quod non habet, and all that sort of thing..
 It could be feasible that an order of some sort has been obtained to retain possession until court decides. However I don't think any additional costs incurred during this time could not be added to any monies already owed. 

Trying hard to imagine this situation occurring  but, who knows, there are some strange people about.


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## EffyCorsten (18 March 2013)

I have heard of YO seizing assets including horses and sending them to market but I've never seen it myself and think the op is either a troll or a nightmare livery..


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## russianhorse (18 March 2013)

I'm inclined to agree with both Patterdale and effycorsten 

.... And Queenbee, as I've also yet to hear of anyone retaining a horse and then adding to the bill anymore than basic care :/


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## ant121 (18 March 2013)

Due to my horse being on the yard owners yard she has every right hold her until we go though courts to settle the bill that we don't owe! and as for people saying get bolt cutter and cut her out now its a hole different story we no longer know where my horse is, the police now where she is but aren't telling us we suspect she is at the farm of the yard owner but we have no clue where that is! we have been up to the yard to see if shes there and was told if we go up they have the right to arrest us for trespassing so as my mare is no longer there we have no reason to go their anymore! we have informed the RSPCA about all this and redwings and they both have to get back to us! we also have contacted a equine solicitor to help us get our horse and tack back!


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## Amymay (18 March 2013)

How much do you owe (according to YO)?


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## ant121 (18 March 2013)

Bourbons said:



			Is it just me, or is the OP avoiding answering questions when asked what breed etc their horses is...? 

Click to expand...

the breed of my horse is an Irish sport horse!


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## luckyoldme (18 March 2013)

how much money do you owe according to the yo and what is the money for?


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## FionaM12 (18 March 2013)

I'm not sure how RSPCA or Redwings could help as strictly speaking it's not a horse welfare problem is it? If anything it's horse theft.

Where does one find an "equine solicitor"? I didn't know there was such a thing.  

I'd be finding out what my rights are to see my horse and be reassured of its safety and wellbeing.


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## Amymay (18 March 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			Where does one find an "equine solicitor"? I didn't know there was such a thing. 

Click to expand...

Yes, there most certainly is.


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## ant121 (18 March 2013)

Sunshine said:



			I would have thought that if the police had been involved originally and were quoting it to be a civil matter then they should have been equally likely to advise the YO that the outstanding debt was a civil matter, that the horse & tack should be released to owner and for YO to recoup losses via small claims (especially as no contract). Reading between the lines, IMO the reason the OP has had a less than satisfactory response from police is possibly because they didn't 'ask politely for the return of their property' and the claim of intimidation from YO possibly had some grounds when they returned with substantially built OH....
		
Click to expand...

the police have said due to the fact that she (my horse) was on her yard she has every right to keep her, they have described it as if you take your car to a garage and have some work done but you are not one hundred per cent happy with it the people at the garage have the right to cease the car, but my argument was that this is a living breathing thing and the police said due to it being a civial matter they cant help that.


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## luckyoldme (18 March 2013)

I think there are plenty of people on here who would give you good advice if they were in pocession of the full facts...quite a number have asked how much money is owed according to the yo and what it is supposed to be for. Maybe if you could answer that question then people would be more informed and less hostile towards you op.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (18 March 2013)

Lots of avoidance of key questions....


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## FionaM12 (18 March 2013)

amymay said:



			Yes, there most certainly is.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not doubting it, I've just never heard of one. Whoever acts for this person, I would want them to act fast as personally I'd be beside myself with worry. I can't imagine not being allowed to see Mollie or even know where she is. 

Are we talking about a lot of money allegedly owed OP?


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## luckyoldme (18 March 2013)

when i first read this thread i thought you were having a rough time op.
I think you should pay what you owe and get your horse back. the courts will take ages and involve a lot of stress and uncertainty as well as a huge bill for the care of the horse in the time it takes to reach the courts.
The first livery i was at was a nightmare, i had paid a month in advance and left two days into that month. I lost nearly £200 but i got my horse out immediately, sometimes in life you have to admit when you are beaten because its easier than locking horns .


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## PeterNatt (18 March 2013)

You have every right to remove your horse from the yard and if you feel that there is likely to be a disturbance then the police are obliged to provide a presence to assist you in the peacefull recovery of your horse and goods.

Please find below a list of specialist equine solicitors.
(If you are a BHS Gold member then you get free legal advice from their legal helpline).

SOLICITORS  EQUINE

Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200  Caroline Bowler

Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
       01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell                  (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts 
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors

Knights Solicitors  
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com

www.laytons.com

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

Arnold Thomson
205 Watling Street West
Towcester
Northants
NN12 6BX
Tel: 01327 350266
Fax: 01327 353567
www.arnoldthomson.com
enquiries@arnoldthomson.com

Tozers   www.tozers.co.uk

Eleanor Temple Barrister from Kings Chambers in Leeds
Tel: 0113 242 1123
www.kingschambers.com


----------



## FionaM12 (18 March 2013)

Also, the trouble with getting a specialist solicitor involved, the expense of doing so might be greater than the money owed (allegedly) surely?


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## TandD (18 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			the police have said due to the fact that she (my horse) was on her yard she has every right to keep her, they have described it as if you take your car to a garage and have some work done but you are not one hundred per cent happy with it the people at the garage have the right to cease the car, but my argument was that this is a living breathing thing and the police said due to it being a civial matter they cant help that.
		
Click to expand...

personally ive never heard of a garage doing this........... normally you complain, have problem rectified, and in some cases get money off......

i doubt the garage would want to keep someones old banger....... and in NO terms could anyone other than the police/carpark wardens CEASE a car

i cant see a yard owner have the right to keep a horse, just due to the fact 'she was on her yard'
the ONLY reason that i could see someone refusing to allow a horse to LEAVE a yard is if the owner of said horse owed large amounts of livery.......

why would the YO make this up????? VERY odd thing to do, even if they wanted to get money out of you.....

edit: the car may be given over in payment of cost for job, but then garage would pay back what the worth of the car was.....

when i say refusing to allow a horse to leave the yard, it doesnt mean owners cant see/ride etc the horse....it just cant leave the premisis....normally owners hand over horse as way of paying off bill


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## Roasted Chestnuts (18 March 2013)

This has more holes in it than swiss cheese!!!!

OP who ever is feeding you this police nonsense doesn't have a clue, your horse has effectively been stolen, taking without your permission regardless of you owning money.

How much does YO say you owe and what for? Please answer this as until you do nobody is going to take you seriously. If someone took my boy I'd be scaling the gates and walls of where I thought they would be and even if I have to go through everyfence with a set of wire cutters he would be in my possession.

I honestly at this point think that this is a total wind up as the toss that is getting replied just makes no sense nor does it seem to follow law.


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## FionaM12 (18 March 2013)

TandD said:



			personally ive never heard of a garage doing this........... normally you complain, have problem rectified, and in some cases get money off......

i doubt the garage would want to keep someones old banger....... and in NO terms could anyone other than the police/carpark wardens CEASE a car
		
Click to expand...

Actually, a garage did exactly this to my ex husband.  They did the work on his car, then realised he was a bad payment risk and refused to let him collect the car until he paid the bill.


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## Spiritedly (18 March 2013)

A yard owner does have the right to retain a horse if a debt is owed, they  then have to give the horse owner a reasonable time frame to pay the debt or they can sell the horse for the the amount owed or if the amount obtained by sale is greater they then have to reimburse the horse owner any amount over and above the debt. The yard owner also has the right to charge livery for the horse all the while the horse is in her possession. 
The police won't get involved as it is a civil matter as the horse isn't stolen only being held in lien of a debt....the same as if your car is towed.


----------



## TandD (18 March 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			Actually, a garage did exactly this to my ex husband.  They did the work on his car, then realised he was a bad payment risk and refused to let him collect the car until he paid the bill.
		
Click to expand...

1. bad payment risk is very different from 'not being happy with the work'
if you aren't happy with the work, and the garage wont sort it, i believe there are actually legal routes you can go down due to customers rights being protected.

op sounds like a bad payment risk personally

2. garage refused him to *take away* car.....but he could have gone and sat it in all day long if he wanted to....he just couldnt take it off their property

surely owner of said 'stolen' horse still has right to go sit on/groom/muck out etc own horse....defo SEE own horse...just cant remove it from yard owners property.....


----------



## rowan666 (18 March 2013)

If YO has moved the horse then im assuming this means the horse has travelled without passport which is breaking the law isnt it? And surely the OP would have to have been given written warning to pay up in certain time frame before horse could be moved anyway?


----------



## slumdog (18 March 2013)

But the yard owner can't sell the horse because she doesn't have the passport for it? I find it odd that op hasn't answered anyone regarding the amount owed. I knew someone who got behind and was just asked to leave, surely most yard owners would cut their losses and free up the stable for the next paying customer?


----------



## Natch (18 March 2013)

Natch said:



			Not just you and not just those questions bourbon  I'm more interested to know why questions about what the YO thinks they haven't paid for and how much we are talking.
		
Click to expand...




amymay said:



			How much do you owe (according to YO)?
		
Click to expand...




luckyoldme said:



			how much money do you owe according to the yo and what is the money for?
		
Click to expand...




luckyoldme said:



			I think there are plenty of people on here who would give you good advice if they were in pocession of the full facts...quite a number have asked how much money is owed according to the yo and what it is supposed to be for. Maybe if you could answer that question then people would be more informed and less hostile towards you op.
		
Click to expand...




me&Harvey said:



			Lots of avoidance of key questions....
		
Click to expand...



... I'm out.


----------



## meesha (18 March 2013)

Not read all replies but unless you supposedly owe thousands I would be paying money (by chq or bank transfer and with a witness) getting horse back then take her to small claims court, you may need state very clearly at time of paying that u don't believe you owe it (again witnesses and in writing) also get her to sign to say she has had the money.   The longer u leave it the more she can say you owe... I would just want the horse back.


----------



## WelshD (18 March 2013)

my guess is that you have been there four months and not paid anything, I cant see how it would get so bad otherwise

Would possibly explain why your daughter wasnt paid too

TBH if you were in the right I dont know why the YO would be so irrational!


----------



## Wagtail (18 March 2013)

Sorry, but the way this comes over to me is a troublesome livery, who has been slow paying fees, and has possibly caused trouble on the yard (why else would she have been accused of bullying - no smoke without fire and all that). Reluctance to give any real detail on amount owed and what for only makes me more inclined to side with the livery yard owner on this one. Certainly she must have told the police a very convincing story for them to allow the removal of the horse and not disclose the whereabouts to the owner. Just saying...


----------



## Ladyinred (18 March 2013)

I think we have heard this story before, and quite recently.


----------



## Amymay (18 March 2013)

So still no idea on what is supposedly owed.....


----------



## ant121 (18 March 2013)

PeterNatt said:



			You have every right to remove your horse from the yard and if you feel that there is likely to be a disturbance then the police are obliged to provide a presence to assist you in the peacefull recovery of your horse and goods.

Please find below a list of specialist equine solicitors.
(If you are a BHS Gold member then you get free legal advice from their legal helpline).

SOLICITORS  EQUINE

Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200  Caroline Bowler

Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
       01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell                  (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts 
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors

Knights Solicitors  
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com

www.laytons.com

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

Arnold Thomson
205 Watling Street West
Towcester
Northants
NN12 6BX
Tel: 01327 350266
Fax: 01327 353567
www.arnoldthomson.com
enquiries@arnoldthomson.com

Tozers   www.tozers.co.uk

Eleanor Temple Barrister from Kings Chambers in Leeds
Tel: 0113 242 1123
www.kingschambers.com

Click to expand...

Thankyou so much!!!


----------



## pachypony (18 March 2013)

yaaaawn... sorry but this story doesnt ring true, so many holes in the replies, bad grammar, almost child like with some of the spelling, very shady on details, contradicts posts and avoids questions, not once tried to defend themselves when being accused of being a troll and making the whole thing up, suddenly started calling the horse 'she and mare' after they had been pulled up after referring to the horse as 'it or horse' i think OP was just really out to get a response with a made up story that was bound to get attention with a title like 'kidnapped horse' sorry to say it but it sounds like we are being taken for a walk up the garden path. think this needs putting to bed! x


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## ant121 (18 March 2013)

luckyoldme said:



			how much money do you owe according to the yo and what is the money for?
		
Click to expand...

we apparently owe round about 700/800 pounds, for last months livery, this months livery till the end of this month, we have paid all our bill up to date. 
also she has said we owe her for my daughters entry fees to shows I know for a fact we do not owe her for them as I paid for all her entry fee online with my own bank account!


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## MillyMoomie (18 March 2013)

Forgive me if I'm repeating a previous post but the police would never allow someone to keep someone else's property unless the yo can prove explicitly that the op owes a substantial amount of money and that she has taken every step that is reasonable to recieve the monies owed. Your horse as with any pet is considered a persons property and it would work the same as a debt company sending round a baliff to get equivalent value of your possessions as a last resort. The police would have advised the op to get her possessions back and the yo to take civil actions for debts unpaid. If this is true the whole story has not been given. Plus I'm not sure why redwings or RSPCA would be called, this is a civil matter.


----------



## pachypony (18 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			we apparently owe round about 700/800 pounds, for last months livery, this months livery till the end of this month, we have paid all our bill up to date.
		
Click to expand...

You are on a very expensive yard!!!!


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## Patterdale (18 March 2013)

Well if you've paid, then how do you still owe it?


----------



## slumdog (18 March 2013)

So basically £800 for 6 weeks livery? (Plus an extra two weeks until the end if the month even though you've left?) take it you're on full livery? Personally I'd offer to pay half now and get my horse and half next month and get my tack.


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## ant121 (18 March 2013)

MillyMoomie said:



			Forgive me if I'm repeating a previous post but the police would never allow someone to keep someone else's property unless the yo can prove explicitly that the op owes a substantial amount of money and that she has taken every step that is reasonable to recieve the monies owed. Your horse as with any pet is considered a persons property and it would work the same as a debt company sending round a baliff to get equivalent value of your possessions as a last resort. The police would have advised the op to get her possessions back and the yo to take civil actions for debts unpaid. If this is true the whole story has not been given. Plus I'm not sure why redwings or RSPCA would be called, this is a civil matter.
		
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im telling you the police have said the my YO can hold my horse for as long as she wants as we apparently owe her money. Till the courts say she has to give my mare she will not be giving it up, the police have also said she can move my horse without my permission we have tried both of them to try and get my horse back and have had no luck getting her back!! and we have rang redwings and the RSPCA due to the fact that the YO has been using what I think are illegal drugs to dope horse and giving one and overdose of drugs, it starve the brain of oxygen causing it to fit and never be the same again.....


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## slumdog (18 March 2013)

But I can't just go in and take my neighbours belongings because I say they owe me money?! Even bailiffs can't just take stuff without proper procedures?


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## ant121 (18 March 2013)

slumdog said:



			So basically £800 for 6 weeks livery? (Plus an extra two weeks until the end if the month even though you've left?) take it you're on full livery? Personally I'd offer to pay half now and get my horse and half next month and get my tack.
		
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but we do not owe this money! and she wants the full amount or nothing we have tried everything to come to some sort of agreement to sort it all out and get my mare back but she keeps on insisting on having the full amount and charging us 120 pounds a week for her to look after my horse till we get her back once its all sorted. 
And this isn't the first time she has done this to someone she did it to a women at the yard before! the women had been there for a few months before and left 2 weeks after I had arrived, this women apparently owed my YO £2000, this but this women got all 3 of her horses and up and left without a word.....we have rang this women and found out she owe nothing but she also told us that my YO had been putting things she doesn't owe on the bill and managed to get it to 2000 but they paid her to get rid of my YO!


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## MillyMoomie (18 March 2013)

Ant121 people CANNOT withhold or remove people's property. This is called theft. 
The 'courts' would either award the yo your horse depending on its value or not. Just as it would be up to the yo to prove that you owe money and yourself to prove that you don't. Until then your horse is YOUR property.


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## ant121 (18 March 2013)

MillyMoomie said:



			Ant121 people CANNOT withhold or remove people's property. This is called theft. 
The 'courts' would either award the yo your horse depending on its value or not. Just as it would be up to the yo to prove that you owe money and yourself to prove that you don't. Until then your horse is YOUR property.
		
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well according to the police she can.........


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## PeterNatt (18 March 2013)

I would suggest that you instruct a solicitor immediately and get them to get in touch with the Chief Constable and put them right over the law.  Your solicitor can also take out a court order to compel the yard owner to tell you where your horse is and return it to you.


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## MillyMoomie (18 March 2013)

So did the police assist the yo with seizing your horse then? Under what act? With what evidence? Have you been told which section the court can award ownership of your horse? I'm sorry but something smells fishy here.


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## magicmoose (18 March 2013)

The YO can legally place a lien (hold onto) on the OP's property (horse), as long as she -
a) is owed money (I know that is disputed by the OP)
b) obtained the property legally (ie - the horse being placed there on livery)

It is totally different from anyone coming to your home to take property away for a debt.

She can't automatically sell the horse to recoup the debt, unless there is an agreement for her to do so. (This is where YOs usually come unstuck when they have horses abandoned with them - but I digress)

I seem to have gone mad with the brackets, but I hope that makes sense?


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## luckyoldme (18 March 2013)

if you ve paid cash you need to gather your bank statements to show withdrawals of similair amounts when you paid.. I doubt the court would come down on your side without any form of evidence, it s your word agianst the yo. Its a lot of money right enough,
if youve got definate proof i would cough up.... make sure she signs a receipt for the money grab the horse and your stuff then take her to small claims.
If you ve got no physical evidence of payments made to her i reckon she has got you by the short and curlies.


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## nostromo70 (18 March 2013)

If you've got proof of payments (which you must have, unless you only pay in cash. But then you should have got receipts) then i can't see why anybody would be able to keep your horse and belonging.


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## Patterdale (18 March 2013)

Help me out here. 

So if you say you DON'T owe the money, then have you:

A - already paid it, or

B - not used the services she has claimed, ie, not had the horse on the yard?

I'm confused. Why do you say you DON'T owe the money?


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## JenJ (18 March 2013)

luckyoldme said:



			if you ve paid cash you need to gather your bank statements to show withdrawals of similair amounts when you paid.. I doubt the court would come down on your side without any form of evidence, it s your word agianst the yo. Its a lot of money right enough,
if youve got definate proof i would cough up.... make sure she signs a receipt for the money grab the horse and your stuff then take her to small claims.
If you ve got no physical evidence of payments made to her i reckon she has got you by the short and curlies.
		
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Not questioning the correctness, but I'm just curious - why would the burden of proof be on the horse owner and not the YO?

If the YO is the one claiming there's an issue, should she not have to prove it in order for a court to find in her favour?


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## Amymay (18 March 2013)

MillyMoomie said:



			Ant121 people CANNOT withhold or remove people's property. This is called theft. 
The 'courts' would either award the yo your horse depending on its value or not. Just as it would be up to the yo to prove that you owe money and yourself to prove that you don't. Until then your horse is YOUR property.
		
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They can.  It's called a lien, and I suspect this is what the YO has done with the horse.

Anyway, as it's all in the hands of a solicitor I'm sure the situtation will be rectified swiftly.

Good luck op.  Update us when the situation is resolved.


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## Queenbee (18 March 2013)

russianhorse said:



			I'm inclined to agree with both Patterdale and effycorsten 

.... And Queenbee, as I've also yet to hear of anyone retaining a horse and then adding to the bill anymore than basic care :/
		
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Exactly, in all my years Ive known of three cases, one that I saw at sales, I heard later it was sold in lieu of livery debt, one at my old yard that was removed from site until payment was made... bit underhand but to be fair livery was taking the pee and horse was on full livery so was probably quite a hefty bill!  

The other was a friend of mine, she was due to pay at the weekend, she often struggled but always paid, she heard they were about to remove her horse (even though they knew payment was on way) it was the same yard as the previous horse, so she borrowed money off a mate, went and took her pony and walked off the yard (apparently giving YO a mouthful and the finger on her way) it was only as she walked down the rd she realised she had a pony and no where arranged to go!  luckily there was a yard down the road with a space 

So other than the one i didn't know but saw at sales, and the two above (apparently YO was notorious at said yard) I have never seen it practiced anywhere else because of costs and effort incurred to YO, and if an animal is  held, its chucked in a field and has minimal amount done with it to save on cost... why on earth exercise a horse (cost of time etc) when you are owed money already???

Just wouldn't happen


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## rowan666 (18 March 2013)

^^^ I agree witn jenj, if this is a genuine post then its quite simple get a solicitor, if the YO has no proof you owe money (and most yards you would pay for in advance especially one so expensive) then she HAS broken the law by siezing and moving a horse with passport and permision!? And certainly if the YO has previous history of doing this and other victim would testify then YO would be ripped apart in court!......haing said all this I doubt this is genuine


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## Queenbee (18 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			well according to the police she can.........
		
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do you realise how little 'law' the police actually know?  Without a lien (official document of which you have to have a copy) they can not keep your horse!  LAW LAW LAW, oh and yes, there is someone sat right in this room who with me who does know their stuff.  Police, for all they have said, are not well versed on such things and often are ill informed when it comes to horseys -  they dont like to get involved.  go into the station and insist to speak to someone, say you are even prepared to leave tack until the matter is sorted but you WILL NOT leave your horse, you expect to be accompanied by police, to get your horse back and if not you will put complaint into the police complaints authority.


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## EffyCorsten (18 March 2013)

If you can afford to pay £100ish? a week then why wouldn't you just pay...! 

And another thing If you where paying around £400 a month WHY would this be cash!!!? 

Next confusing point, if you have zero proof of the money leaving your account re bank withdrawals WHERE IS IT COMING FROM!? 

I know of course from personal experience of having a small business on the side in which I am paid mostly in cash that you can be paid in cash almost 100% of the time in certain working situations but I thought those who kept it under their bed instead of in a bank where well into their 
70's by now....? 

I think op you are indeed taking the p*** out of us and are in fact an attention seeking teen maybe??? 

I'm really sorry if I'm way off and really insulting you but I think it's clear now that if you want us to seriously help you in someway you might just have to prove the validity of your ehem story?


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## EffyCorsten (18 March 2013)

oh and anther thing ( This thread is really bothering me now) 

If you are willing to pay an equine solicitor (a reasonable fortune?) why not just pay the YO and see that as an unofficial solicitor fee + court fee and costs, all at a hugely knocked down price of what it would really take to take her to court? 

I'm not entirely sure what sort of costs are involved as I'm not someone who's been taken or taken anyone to court so sorry if my point is er pointless..


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## Delicious_D (18 March 2013)

EffyCorsten said:



			If you are willing to pay an equine solicitor (a reasonable fortune?) why not just pay the YO and see that as an unofficial solicitor fee + court fee and costs, all at a hugely knocked down price of what it would really take to take her to court?
		
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what i would add, IF this is all true as you say, you would have a hard time explaining to the court proof you dont owe the money, and it will take a long time it get to court, plus the cost of filing it to the court for the date! In this time, potentially racking up a higher bill?

Im sorry, but this has to be a troll...if not, im inclinded to believe your version of events probably differ greatly to the truth.


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## FionaM12 (18 March 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			Also, the trouble with getting a specialist solicitor involved, the expense of doing so might be greater than the money owed (allegedly) surely? 

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EffyCorsten said:



			If you are willing to pay an equine solicitor (a reasonable fortune?) why not just pay the YO and see that as an unofficial solicitor fee + court fee and costs, all at a hugely knocked down price of what it would really take to take her to court?
		
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Delicious_D said:



			what i would add, IF this is all true as you say, you would have a hard time explaining to the court proof you dont owe the money, and it will take a long time it get to court, plus the cost of filing it to the court for the date! In this time, potentially racking up a higher bill?
		
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I haven't had a lot of experience of solicitors, but I do know their charges would be likely to put your £800 in the shade, not to mention any court costs.  Plus, as D_D points out, the livery bill is going up the meantime. 

It doesn't make sense to me.


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## Delicious_D (18 March 2013)

I am aware about the costs of solisitors for my PI case....and also an employement tribunal....not cheap. Mind you, depends if you win . Luckily i did.


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## slumdog (18 March 2013)

Were you hoping people would offer to donate...


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## ant121 (18 March 2013)

slumdog said:



			Were you hoping people would offer to donate...
		
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NO not at all!!! I was hoping to come here and get some advice on getting my horse back safe and sound! but I guess I was wrong!


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## FionaM12 (18 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			NO not at all!!! I was hoping to come here and get some advice on getting my horse back safe and sound! but I guess I was wrong!
		
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You've had quite a lot of advice here, surely?


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## FfionWinnie (18 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			NO not at all!!! I was hoping to come here and get some advice on getting my horse back safe and sound! but I guess I was wrong!
		
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You have has lots of advice. What else do you think folk can say?!


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## JenJ (18 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			NO not at all!!! I was hoping to come here and get some advice on getting my horse back safe and sound! but I guess I was wrong!
		
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You've had lots of advice on getting your horse back safe and sound. Have you not read the whole thread?


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## Delicious_D (18 March 2013)

Oh sorry, havent you had the advice you wanted?

*pats back* Yes, you are right! mean nasty YO!, dont worry, we will all rally around, pull the yard gate off its hinges and bulldoze your horse out of there.


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## Clippy (18 March 2013)

IF it's true that the YO is holding your horse in leiu of a debt, and IF it's true that you paid her, then let her take you to Court. The very fact that she's trying to charge you for entry fees which you can prove you paid out of your own bank account will cast doubt on all her other claims


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## ant121 (18 March 2013)

Thankyou to everyone who has helped with either website of help or just helping me out we will be taking this matter to court and will make sure I will get my horse back!! I don't want any more just the horse!!! i don't care about the money or the tack its my mare i want back! and will ot stop till i do!! but thankyou to people who have positively contributed to this post thingy thankyou!!


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## xiluvhorsesx (18 March 2013)

This is terrible!!!
Go back to the police! 
Good luck I hope everything works out xx


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## ant121 (18 March 2013)

xiluvhorsesx said:



			This is terrible!!!
Go back to the police! 
Good luck I hope everything works out xx
		
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it truly is, my daughter me and my husband haven't slept since it happed, its awful but were getting closer to finding out where she is and we are sending a vet to check her and to see if shes fine.


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## Fii (18 March 2013)

Queenbee said:



			do you realise how little 'law' the police actually know?  Without a lien (official document of which you have to have a copy) they can not keep your horse!  LAW LAW LAW, oh and yes, there is someone sat right in this room who with me who does know their stuff.  Police, for all they have said, are not well versed on such things and often are ill informed when it comes to horseys -  they dont like to get involved.  go into the station and insist to speak to someone, say you are even prepared to leave tack until the matter is sorted but you WILL NOT leave your horse, you expect to be accompanied by police, to get your horse back and if not you will put complaint into the police complaints authority.
		
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ant121 said:



			it truly is, my daughter me and my husband haven't slept since it happed, its awful but were getting closer to finding out where she is and we are sending a vet to check her and to see if shes fine.
		
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I would take Queenbees advice if i were you, it is VERY good advice, and even if it doesnt work what have you got to loose!!!


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## Adopter (18 March 2013)

You seem to have gathered quite a lot of extra information since this all started, you know you are not the first person this has happened to. A claim for monies you can prove you already paid from your bank account etc.  so with the extra information do take the advice given, see a solicitor urgently who has experience in livestock/horse matters, go back to police and insist you are given support and tell them about other person who can back you up.

In all this I do feel so sorry for you and family it must be a nightmare, and so awful for your poor horse.  Do let us know the outcome.


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## Amymay (19 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			i don't care about the money or the tack its my mare i want back! and will ot stop till i do!! !
		
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If that's the case - simply pay the disputed bill.   Damn site cheaper than going to court.


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## Bourbons (19 March 2013)

amymay said:



			If that's the case - simply pay the disputed bill.   Damn site cheaper than going to court.
		
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Agree with this 100%.


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## FionaM12 (19 March 2013)

amymay said:



			If that's the case - simply pay the disputed bill.   Damn site cheaper than going to court.
		
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Yes, that's what a few of us have been saying. Also it appears the livery bill is going up by the day as long as YO has the mare, increasing the debt.

Pay the money OP and get your horse. You can fight the right and wrongs later if you want to, but I suspect solicitors and a court case will be much more than £800. Plus it would take months before you got your horse back.


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## AshTay (19 March 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			Yes, that's what a few of us have been saying. Also it appears the livery bill is going up by the day as long as YO has the mare, increasing the debt.

Pay the money OP and get your horse. You can fight the right and wrongs later if you want to, but I suspect solicitors and a court case will be much more than £800. Plus it would take months before you got your horse back. 

Click to expand...

Assuming the post is all true and that she has already paid the bill, simply paying up to get the horse back will send out totally the wrong message and leave the YO free to do it all over again to someone else....!!!! If the OP can afford to take this to court (and can verify that the mare is being cared for properly in the meantime) then she should.

Nightmare situation though (if true).


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## Delicious_D (19 March 2013)

Would you pay £800.00 and not ask for proof of payment?


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## fatpiggy (19 March 2013)

cambrica said:



			I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I don't believe a word of it!
		
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Me neither.


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## Shadow the Reindeer (19 March 2013)

Bite the bullet, pay the disputed money and 'make sure' everyone is aware of this yards methods of 'doing one' on their liveries.. I certainly wouldn't want to be on a yard that if they don't like you, pull stunts like this, not good for business (who's to say they're not going around telling some right porkies about the mare's owners?)..
Get your horse back, and take her to small claims court to get your money back after.


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## Wagtail (19 March 2013)

fatpiggy said:



			Me neither.
		
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Nor me.


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## Mondy (19 March 2013)

Wow. This story is bizarre.

I feel some proleptic-disappointment that we'll probably never know the 'truth', but here's hoping...

At least it's not boring. :-D


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## BigBuck's (19 March 2013)

I'm a cynical old hag but I'd be quite frankly amazed if there were a horse, a YO, a yard, a padlock or even a husband.  Brand new poster who reads like a 13yo girl (with apologies to those 13yo girls who can spell & type); a second 1-time poster logging on in support who also had similar happen to them after four months - blimey, four months is a dangerous time in the world of horse ownership, isn't it?! - drip-drip-drip-feeding, wildly inaccurate understanding of police law and procedure yadda yadda yadda.  Trip trap trip trap.

I smell s***, and not of the horse variety.


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## Coldfeet! (19 March 2013)

Does seem a bit messed up, Ive never known a yard owner to confiscate any animal unless there was a good lump of livery unpaid or the horse was abandoned. 

I dont think yard owners want the hassal of another mouth to feed and another stable to clean unless there was a clear matter of principal involved. 

If this YO has done this without monies being owed it is theft, a dasdardly act. Either way it wouldnt go unresolved before nightfall if it was my horse.


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## frozzy (19 March 2013)

HMMMM.... She  wouldnt be the first parent who thought (wrongly) that by her kiddy hanging around the stable all day long that she was "working" the livery  fee off !  Pay your bill, get nag back. Simple. Keeping horses especially on full livery costs.


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## Delicious_D (19 March 2013)

frozzy said:



			HMMMM.... She  wouldnt be the first parent who thought (wrongly) that by her kiddy hanging around the stable all day long that she was "working" the livery  fee off !  Pay your bill, get nag back. Simple. Keeping horses especially on full livery costs.
		
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But why? Unless you have had the YO actually say they are working the bill off, i highly doubt it would be the case....


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## hoofie (19 March 2013)

Hi again. I'm the one time poster referred to a few posts back who was in a similar situation as the op a while back. Been watching the thread to see if the op posted on what the outcome was. I would just like to confirm that i WAS in a similar situation  as there seems to be some doubt over my story. I only joined this forum recently and yes, my first post was in support of the op but due to the lack of info coming from the op, i am also like a lot of you pretty sceptical as to whether it is true. I got my pony back from the livery yard that were keeping here and i wasn't going to give her up without a fight!!! Just wanted to let you all know that i am a genuine poster and hopefully in time as i post more often this will be realised!! Thanks for reading!!


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## Natch (19 March 2013)

changed my mind


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## Tiffany (19 March 2013)

OMG what a situation. I'd be furious. Like others have said...

Do you have a livery contract?
How have you been paying the YO - DD, SO, cash, cheque? In other words can you prove you have been paying?
Do you have your horse's passport?
Did your daughter have any sort of contract?

I think a good starting point would be if you can prove ownership of the horse and that you have been paying the YO.


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## Marydoll (19 March 2013)

SNORKEY said:



			I work for the police, and tbh it is a civil matter. At the end of the day the yard owner has ceased goods (the horse) as they believe they are owed money. You need to contact the RSPCA, not that their any good, and make them aware you concerned for the horses welfare, call the BHS for advice and a solicitor. If things get ugly, ie. threats or you want police present whilst you attend the yard to prevent any breech of the peace then they will help you.
If you don't owe this person anything then you could say the horse has been stolen, but as soon as police realise the other lady is saying you owe money it does become civil.
		
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To me its just theft, and i would take the door off the hinges to get my horse out of there, and flatten anyone who tried to stop me..... That said im not sure this is no more than a wind up thread


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## HBM1 (19 March 2013)

I actually think they were hoping for sympathy..to be quickly followed by kind hearted people offering paypal money to get mare out.


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## lpeacock (19 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			it truly is, my daughter me and my husband haven't slept since it happed, its awful but were getting closer to finding out where she is and we are sending a vet to check her and to see if shes fine.
		
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But you said they moved the horse and you don't know where it is?


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## Marydoll (19 March 2013)

HBM1 said:



			I actually think they were hoping for sympathy..to be quickly followed by kind hearted people offering paypal money to get mare out.
		
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Well that was an epic fail


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## Mondy (20 March 2013)

Can't 'somebody' find the yard owner? I'm too nosy for my own good...


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## HBM1 (20 March 2013)

I doubt there is one. We could try mcgyver


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## elijahasgal (20 March 2013)

Well, if they are genuine, then I would be reporting the livery owner for theft of my horse. But the post doesnt sound right.

HOWEVER, I do know of a couple of instances where dodgey dealings have gone on.

1) People were sent a stallion to be schooled on.  The people schooling it decided it was rather nice,  and refused owner to see it until they paid. Except they kept adding extras to the bill.  In end horse became the property of the people schooling, who then stood it at public stud.....
I was told that by a close friend of the people who were doing the schooling.  Oh by the way, they were also farmers with gun lisences, who sleep in mobile homes next to stallions stables.....

2) livery, storing horsebox at livery yard, but hidden accross field out of sight.
Livery turns up to "collect" trailer, phones yard owner to say, told its too wet to cross land at moment (on clay in this rain)  Decides to try anyway, gets stuck in gateway.  Next communication, got stuck had to get towed out blah blah blah.....by the way livery has opened up near me, I want to move my horse asap..... antennas up, suspect that this livery was going to leg it without paying, especially with a few of the lies that followed

It happens people, both ways.


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## blackhor2e (20 March 2013)

This actually has me quite worried. I keep two of my horses on somebody else's yard, if this situation happened could the yard owner really keep them? Although I would really like to see her try!


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## Amymay (20 March 2013)

b1ackhorse said:



			This actually has me quite worried. I keep two of my horses on somebody else's yard, if this situation happened could the yard owner really keep them? Although I would really like to see her try!
		
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If a bill remains unpaid and outstanding, yes a yard owner can take a lien out on your horse(s) in order to recoup payment.

Pay your bills, and you'll be fine.


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## EffyCorsten (20 March 2013)

b1ackhorse said:



			This actually has me quite worried. I keep two of my horses on somebody else's yard, if this situation happened could the yard owner really keep them? Although I would really like to see her try!
		
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Keep up payments hopefully via bacs payment, get receipts or invoices aswell, and if you don't have a contract already have the yard draw one up. If they refused take your horse out of there.


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## Barney&Buzz (20 March 2013)

Troll Troll Troll. Trolly Trolly Troll. Enough now with your make believe.


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## riding_high (20 March 2013)

on our yard the YO locks up all tack/rugs/etc and tells the owner to remove the horse immediately and only when the bill is paid will she release the tack and things.
if we don't pay up then we don't get access to things until it's paid. that's a fairer way of doing things rather than keeping the horse, upping a bill and still not getting your money.


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## Marydoll (20 March 2013)

HBM1 said:



			I doubt there is one. We could try mcgyver
		
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Ooft someones showing their age


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## Amymay (20 March 2013)

riding_high said:



			if we don't pay up then we don't get access to things until it's paid. that's a fairer way of doing things rather than keeping the horse, upping a bill and still not getting your money.
		
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But of course the fairest thing is to obviously pay your bill in the first place.


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## Tonks (20 March 2013)

TrasaM said:



			Oh er!
I opened this thread thinking that there were some evil enterprising peeps taking horses and then sending ransom notes using words cut out of magazines, saying "pay up or the pony gets it". 

As far as I know you cannot hold on to someone's possessions because they owe you money. Thats commonly known as theft. 
You have to prove in a court of law that money is owed first and then lay claim to property to recoup the debt. Nor is it possible to sell someone's property to recoup dept unless ownership has first been transferred.  Nemo dat quod non habet, and all that sort of thing..
 It could be feasible that an order of some sort has been obtained to retain possession until court decides. However I don't think any additional costs incurred during this time could not be added to any monies already owed. 

Trying hard to imagine this situation occurring  but, who knows, there are some strange people about.





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Just by way of interest a yard owner can claim a 'lein' against money owed by a livery client. Here, the YO retains the horse - but herein lies the paradox.....the yard owner must prove they have 'improved' the horse whilst it is in their care, for them to claim this against livery fees owed. Improvement can be open to interpretation but it is possible for a YO to 'retain' the horse.


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## Equilibrium Ireland (20 March 2013)

Well I know of a stitustion when an owner came and get his horse off a Horsebox at a show while trainer was in making entries. Only heard one side and that was of the trainer. He said owner owed him about 20k. The whole thing was rather fishy about the money owed to him. I mean really, who is going to let a bill run that high thinking they'll get paid? You can't be that stupid. There were no real bills either. I know horse is still with owner and he got a replacement passport. He was down as owner for everything. Trainer went to police and tried dealing with the passport issuing authorities. He didn't have a leg to stand on with any of them. I can't say for sure who was right or wrong but it was all a little weird. 

I take horses for clients for starting. And now only if I really know the people. And I do checks! But it's 4 weeks up front. Before continuing on we assess where horses are and get another 2 up front. Then the balance is due when leaving. At least at this point if they try and screw us we've been mostly paid. Nothing like getting a horse started, riding, and safe and then paid what someone decides is enough. Despite them knowing what you charge. Can you tell I'm going on my experience here? Lessons learned thank you. If people make excuses for why they can't pay, work on the horse stops. Though I will never stop caring for a horse while in my barn. Not their fault. I will just say you need to come get your horse or if really taking the P, will drive horse to them. But I really don't think using a horse as a pawn is ever the way to go. 

Terri


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## fatpiggy (20 March 2013)

ant121 said:



			My daughter who has worked with this women, she drew this drug out of a bottle and give it to the horse after 10 minuets the horse didn't no react so she drew up the same amount and gave it to the horse, the horse reacting by fitting and not being able to stand up, she did this just to clip a horse. My daughter and two other girl saw this, when she told me I immediately started looking for another stables and trying to move. this situation only happened last week so we took action fast, she changed the code on the padlock to the frount gate and the tack and put a lock on my stable.
		
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You really gave yourself away with this ridiculous statement. Injected sedatives have to be given into the jugular. Apart from the fact only a vet can legally do this, you CANNOT buy the drug because it is for vet administration only.  Even an online company won't sell it.
Amazing coincidence that there was a thread very recently mentioning some horses reacting to IV sedatives by having fits?????

I suggest you pay more attention to your studies. The teachers haven't managed to drum much spelling, grammar or use of capital letters into you,  have they?


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## justabob (20 March 2013)

Barney&Buzz said:



			Troll Troll Troll. Trolly Trolly Troll. Enough now with your make believe.
		
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I don't know how you have the gall!!!!


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