# Best calmer for a spooky horse?



## Saints_fan88 (17 November 2013)

Hi, sorry I know this has been done to death but I'm not having much luck with HHO's search function!

I'm basically looking for a calmer that can help my spooky warmblood concentrate on the job again - he's a real 'summer' horse who prefers being out at night, warmer weather, variety of work etc. Obv now we're headed for winter he's out less and dark nights are meaning giving him variety is a challenge!

He's evented all summer so for the first time is going into winter fully fit & has recently decided that everything is scary. He's not at all wired, personality wise is fine, good in hand still etc so I'm not worried, it's just when ridden he feels like he has too much energy to burn & isn't really up for using it productively! I'm doing all I can to give him variety but would like some help!

I've heard good things about Horse First Relax Me, TopSpec & Nupafeed, but I've got a bit confused about the Magnesium element to calmers...would it just be easier to try a plain magnesium supplement first to see if he's deficient? As apparently mag-based calmers only work if they're deficient.......so I'm guessing I'm in for a period of trial and error!!!

I do remember reading a sciencey article on here once evaluating the different types....

Any experiences/tips welcome!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (17 November 2013)

Nearly all the UK soil is deficient in Magnesium so that most forage and feed will be too.
I use Feedmark Steady Up as a general calmer and all round good stuff. Build it up to the full recommended level over 10 days and take a note of exercise and behaviours every day for a month, I think this is essential, or you soon forget.
For my boy who was barefoot, and so had a very dedicated [and budget oriented] diet, I did give him 6  to 8 gms of MgO [10gms of MgO per day=5gms per day of Magnesium.] but this was in addition to  his general broad spectrum mineral mix, 
So what I did was move from the more expensive Steady up to the less expensive MgO, but as you really want quick results, my advice is to start off with the Steady-up.
You can experiment a bit later on. but no I would not start off with the straight MgO until I was happy with the general dietary regime. Excess Magnesium is excreted, but I don't think you will get to that level.


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## popsdosh (17 November 2013)

MrsD123 said:



			Nearly all the UK soil is deficient in Magnesium so that most forage and feed will be too.
I use Feedmark Steady Up as a general calmer and all round good stuff. Build it up to the full recommended level over 10 days and take a note of exercise and behaviours every day for a month, I think this is essential, or you soon forget.
		
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Who told you that load of rubbish? The person selling the calmer?


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## Charlie007 (17 November 2013)

I use cool calm and collected on my chap and I think it helps. There are extra additives if needed. As with all calmers it will depend on the horse but one bonus it that EquiFeast have fabulous customer service.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (17 November 2013)

popsdosh said:



			Who told you that load of rubbish? The person selling the calmer?
		
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Thank you for your well argued and considered opinion.
http://www.kali-gmbh.com/en/pdf-articles/article_200610_agronomist_magnesium1.pdf
You will find that many dairy farmers supplement magnesium, and for good reason.


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## popsdosh (17 November 2013)

MrsD123 said:



			Thank you for your well argued and considered opinion.
http://www.kali-gmbh.com/en/pdf-articles/article_200610_agronomist_magnesium1.pdf
You will find that many dairy farmers supplement magnesium, and for good reason.
		
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I am a Farmer so know what I am talking about! The reason some dairy farmers have a problem with magnesium is in the spring the grass grows so quick that the concentration of magnesium in lush spring grass is not high enough to satisfy the demands of high yielding dairy cows it is a very complex balance and supplementing them at the wrong time can make matters worse .However I do not wish to bore everybody on here with the science of my reasoning,I could write a book on it.
I assume you are basing your theory on that you have heard dairy farmers have to feed magnesium.About 10% of british land is low in magnesium however most peoples horses are not kept on intensively managed grassland as used by a dairy cow so do not suffer lack of dietary magnesium.
The man that you quote in that report is working for a company selling potash fertiliser and there is a very complex issue in that applying potash at the wrong time of year ties up magnesium in the soil so his company advocate applying magnesium to counteract this although in theory there is no deficiency.
Like I say dont wish to bore people but if you wish to know more I can.
May I suggest a simple blood profile will tell you if your horse is lacking in Magnesium better than guess work . My cows are metabolic profiled twice a year at turnout and housing this tells me if I have an issue,thats quite scientific is it not! Why do horse owners not do this as routine its cheaper than a tub of calmer and it can pick up other issues.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (17 November 2013)

A callout and a blood sample for one animal could easily be about £100, blood profiling is not even used for routinely for most racehorses or others where it might be commercially viable. 
I'm a bit of a farmer too, and unfortunately a lot of the problems for horse owners are because they are being grazed on ryegrass leys originally intended to produce meat or milk, and being managed by farmers whose idea of good grazing is a bright green monoculture.
I recently heard the owner of some small ponies say she wished the grass had flushed this year [you know: dark green, hi sugar lo magnesium] so there would be more grass,  and this was someone who lived in the country and kept ponies for 30 years.
The owner of the field, told me the farmer had the field tested regularly and dependant on the result, fertiliser was applied ............ yes,  to grow grass to fatten the cattle and produce a good crop for haylage.

PS There are other metabolic problems which horse and ponies are sensitive to, and which may or may not be Mg related, I used to be a sceptic but have got over it.


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## popsdosh (17 November 2013)

I am not a sceptic just know the science inside out .Grazing horses on ryegrass leys originally intended for cows will not predispose to low magnesium levels as I assume you are not applying the same fertiliser regime so the grass will not outgrow its ability to absorb magnesium from the soil. If you dont wish to pay all that for a blood profile have the grass tissue analysed it costs £18/sample.
The reason I do not like this jump for the nearest magnesium calmer is that there is lots of evidence from NZ a country which does have very low soil magnesium that horses in some circumstances are being slowly poisoned by over supplementing.
By the way all my mares and foals live with the cows in the summer on intensive grazing and I certainly have no problems.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (17 November 2013)

popsdosh said:



			I am not a sceptic just know the science inside out .Grazing horses on ryegrass leys originally intended for cows will not predispose to low magnesium levels as I assume you are not applying the same fertiliser regime so the grass will not outgrow its ability to absorb magnesium from the soil. If you dont wish to pay all that for a blood profile have the grass tissue analysed it costs £18/sample.
The reason I do not like this jump for the nearest magnesium calmer is that there is lots of evidence from NZ a country which does have very low soil magnesium that horses in some circumstances are being slowly poisoned by over supplementing.
By the way all my mares and foals live with the cows in the summer on intensive grazing and I certainly have no problems.
		
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Well I don't know about  NZ, but I hope not as some horse are already fed 20-30gms of magnesium in this country, and I understood the excess is excreted. Re sampling grass, I don't think is going to be of any value.
The problems for  laminitics for example has identified that sugars level for example vary throughout the day. But I think we will call this discussion to a halt..... we don't agree and that is it.


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## TarrSteps (17 November 2013)

Interestingly, magnesium calmers are becoming popular in the US, where there isn't even much discussion of endemic dietary deficiency. There the conversation revolves increasingly around whether/how to test for supplementation.


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## Saints_fan88 (17 November 2013)

Thank you for the responses...although must admit I'm still just as confused!! ;-)


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## JennBags (17 November 2013)

Blimey op, you started a bit of a debate here 

From what I have read, every horse reacts differently to the calmers.  I feed Magnitude to my boy, which helps. However, since he's been on Lifeforce he has been a different animal, much much quieter & calmer.  I also don't give him any hard feed, just chaff, and he is in fab condition. I can highly recommend it as an all-round great supplement.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (17 November 2013)

Saints_fan88 said:



			Thank you for the responses...although must admit I'm still just as confused!! ;-)
		
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Exactly, buy a branded calmer, record the results and work from there, the only reason I recommend a branded calmer in the first instance is that they have several calming things in them, AND will not upset the gut, in fact will aid digestion.
If the horse is calmer , then continue with it as long as you consider it affordable and good value, if not  you can try  another "mix"
It is called trial and error,for obvious reasons. Horses are all very different, and so are owners.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (17 November 2013)

JennBags said:



			Blimey op, you started a bit of a debate here 

From what I have read, every horse reacts differently to the calmers.  I feed Magnitude to my boy, which helps. However, since he's been on Lifeforce he has been a different animal, much much quieter & calmer.  I also don't give him any hard feed, just chaff, and he is in fab condition. I can highly recommend it as an all-round great supplement.
		
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Yes,  but it may not be a simple as "individual horses react differently" There are very few horses in private ownership who get fed the same grub as the horse next door, and they do not get the same exercise.  a horse that is  a "fun ride" for one person, is a "nutter" for another.
The only places where horse are pretty much all treated in a "herd basis" are studs, and racing yards, though even the smaller yards  tend to  feed individually.
Also some yards may feed food from their own farm, some may bring forage in from another area, so that the whole situation is confused [scientifically]
.............. in my humble opinion that is possibly why the debate rages on ........... meanwhile in the real world, people are starving horses cos they "can't afford to buy hay"


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## paddi22 (17 November 2013)

my highly stung lad was a nightmare to ride last year, tried him on various herbal things and the relax me and it made no difference to his behaviour. He was out this summer on grass and was fine. Now he's back in stabled most of the day for winter and i think i finally have the feed balance/calmer right.  He is on a completely sugar free feed of alfafa plus oil and a low cal balancer. He is also on the 'good as gold' calmer as well and (touch wood!) it seems to be working fine. He is very chilled out and working well, with no napping or spookiness. He had tons of energy and doesn't seem to be missing cereals at all.


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## Justturnedfifty (17 November 2013)

A calmer will not help your horse to concentrate. All I can say is look at Equifeast - they tailor make a supplement to assist your horse with its concentration and general mental well being. I am heavily involved with a very sharp newly broken Dutch Warmblood whose main instinct was to resort to 'flight' when he didn't understand or lacked confidence. Since introducing this youngster to Equifeast all I can say the change in him is fantastic. We tried many calmers before someone recommended Equifeast to us, and the initial communication with the team from Equifeast made a lot of sense, the supplement even more sense and it is affordable. Speak to the team, I am confident they will help you and your horse immensely. Good luck!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (17 November 2013)

paddi22 said:



			He had tons of energy and doesn't seem to be missing cereals at all.
		
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So ................ one can argue, that it may be cereals that causes hyper activity... that may be logical .. ... cereals contain starches, starches  break down in to sugars......... and  sugars are a readily available source of energy.


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## paddi22 (17 November 2013)

I honestly tried everything before (upped his workload to a high level, increased turnout, various calmers, would lunge before riding) and nothing seemed to affect how he went under saddle, his reactions were always extreme, fast and manic. Since cutting cereals out he has been consistently quiet, even at shows or stressful events, he is honestly a different horse! The only difference is switching to the sugar and starch free food.


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## noname (18 November 2013)

To go back to your original question, I used equine America magnitude which literally is just magnesium and worked well on my spooky horse.  

If you are concerned about the nutrient content etc of your grazing, you could do a soil test? We do this before we fertilise the hay every year so we use the right fertiliser and is inexpensive. 

I used magnitude daily initially because my horse was more spooky and jumpy in the colder months. In the summer I just gave it to him a few days before a competition. I don't use it now. He is aslmost PSG and I need the spark to do the harder work. I just try and channel his nervous energies in a more positive way.

Oxy shot is also supposed to improve focus but I'm not sure how it works!


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## noname (18 November 2013)

MrsD123 said:



			So ................ one can argue, that it may be cereals that causes hyper activity... that may be logical .. ... cereals contain starches, starches  break down in to sugars......... and  sugars are a readily available source of energy.
		
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Yes I was told this by a feed company. My dad is not convinced by analysing the protein etc contents on the back of packets. It really does depend on what's in the mix and the individual horse. I've never had much luck with Allan & page calm and condition but used their herbal quiet mix which was fab, so maybe the herbs worked quiet well with that horse!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (18 November 2013)

You are not the only one with Calm and Condition problems, I don't think straightforward analysis works so well with horses as with milch or meat animals, cos we are more concerned with an individual's condition and with behaviour. When horse nuts first came out they were a novelty! .... as it happens I was at a conference [1964], and was told by the  spillers nutritionist [in those days they were chemists] that the feed formula varied per batch with the costs of the ingredients, this was OK for cattle feed, but it does not work for horses, where the ingredients have very different outcomes  eg I would never feed flaked maize, and would only use barley on an old horse which was losing weight, oats I can accept as a top up for hard working horses, otherwise I avoid cereals.


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## PaddyMonty (18 November 2013)

I may be missing something obvious here but the OP said horse is normally fine and is very fit from eventing but is having less turnout and work so is feeling a little too good. Strikes me the only imbalance this horse has is between feed intake and work. My first line of attack would be to address that issue.


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## Saints_fan88 (18 November 2013)

Thanks everyone for your replies - really interesting reading 

I'm definitely going to look into the nutrients he's getting in his feed & have ordered a calmer to start on my trial and error process...! Don't get me wrong it's lovely to feel him feeling well, would just be good if he could be a bit more helpful channeling it productively!!

Thanks again all.


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## Justturnedfifty (18 November 2013)

Saints_fan88 said:



			Thanks everyone for your replies - really interesting reading 

I'm definitely going to look into the nutrients he's getting in his feed & have ordered a calmer to start on my trial and error process...! Don't get me wrong it's lovely to feel him feeling well, would just be good if he could be a bit more helpful channeling it productively!!

Thanks again all.
		
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Hi op, before ordering your calmer take the time to look at the Equifeast website. It makes very interesting reading because feeding any excess levels of magnesium will not necessarily calm your horse, and they will help you analyse what you are currently feeding, combined with the type of work your horse is in etc. they do not offer you a 'one size fits all' calmer. In fact, they don't even offer you a calmer, they offer you a cost effective supplement that is tailor made to your horses requirements. They stay in touch with you so they can alter the supplement if need be. I agree that too much sugar and starch in feeds can be part of the problem, ditto insufficient turnout can frustrate some horses. Unless you go the whole hog and get your grass analysed along with your hay or haylage you will still be guessing whether your horse needs additional vitamins and or supplements. Equifeast is different because it does not claim to be a calmer, but it does help a horse to focus which is exactly what you appear to be after.


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## Saints_fan88 (18 November 2013)

Brilliant thank you for the endorsement, seem to be a number of recommendations for Equifeast & I like the fact you can speak with them & they tailor it for you. He is not a naughty stressy horse, but he is a spooky warmblood by nature & often spoils lovely work with tension & spooking. Would be lovely to think I could remedy that...!


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## Justturnedfifty (18 November 2013)

Saints_fan88 said:



			Brilliant thank you for the endorsement, seem to be a number of recommendations for Equifeast & I like the fact you can speak with them & they tailor it for you. He is not a naughty stressy horse, but he is a spooky warmblood by nature & often spoils lovely work with tension & spooking. Would be lovely to think I could remedy that...!
		
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Having worked with a young very spooky, totally tense newly broken Warmblood I can hand on heart say that the progress of this young horse over the last 6 months has been very rewarding, compared to the first 6 months which was very disheartening. As soon as we put him on Equifeast we saw an immediate positive response, we had the standard 'blip' exactly as Equifeast described, and we are now getting over the last 3 months constant 'brain in gear' attitude. We have lost the 'flight' panic 'get me out of here' attitude, and the jockey can now apply constant leg, give and take reins, and can now really ride him, rather than being a passenger who was just keeping him sweet in an attempt to stay in the saddle. By some standards what we have achieved in twelve months is probably not enough, but we have had to take such little steps to build this horses confidence we think we have achieved huge amounts. Would we take him off Equifeast? No. Good luck and I look forward to hearing your success.


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## maccachic (18 November 2013)

Start with plenty of salt 10g per 100kg of weight and have loose salt (not block) in the paddock they can consume the salt easier if it is in loose form than block form as horses have soft tounges compared to cows which blocks were designed for.


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## L&M (19 November 2013)

Totally agree with the salt - my chap has been a different horse since I have started adding salt to his feed. He is notorious for his explosive bucking on the hunting field, but since adding the salt, has not even thrown a small fly buck and is calm and mannerly again.

Hopefully somone on here will be able to explain the science behind this!


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## maccachic (19 November 2013)

Salt balances excess potassium.  Excess potassium limits the uptake of magnesium which is required for nervous system function.  Salt is also an important electrolyte so helps keep muscles and hydration at optimal levels.


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## fuzzle (19 November 2013)

I tried everything going i then asked my vets which i should of done in the first placr would of saved me lots of time and money!!!  they advised me on EQUISTRO EQUILIZER  is is amazing!!! takes 10 days to really kick in, but omg i have a total different animal so much easier!!!  shop around if you choose to go with this i think animed is the cheapest at the moment xx


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## georgiegirl (19 November 2013)

Im having great success with using James Hart V Calm for a horse doing the whole box rest/rehab thing at the moment - not competiton legal but if your using it out of season may be worth a look??


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