# PENS Therapy - any success stories please?



## Dazed'n'confused (10 November 2016)

As title really.. 
Have any of you sent your horse for PENS Therapy for head shaking?
My vet seems keen to try this if the current drug trial doesn't help but reading about it I can't see much point realistically. I understand that it seems to take two or three goes to bring about any short term benefits and then appears to need a "top up" as and when afterwards. At £1500/2000 a go, it's a no go for me after the insurance money has run out...
However, if anyone has a success story I'd love to hear it!
The problem has been ongoing for nearly a year (on & off) & I'm no near to finding what triggers it off.


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## spotty_pony (14 December 2016)

Hi, my horse is going to Newmarket on January to have a course of Pens Treatment. He started head shaking in October and after extensive investigation nothing untoward has been found. 

Just wanted to say I was told initial cost is £1500 for first three treatments (first one, then second one a week later and then third one 6 months later) and then top up treatments are £250 a time after that so not as bad once insurance runs out.


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## Dazed'n'confused (15 December 2016)

Oh thank you, that's doable!! Phew!

I hope your horse responds well for you - head shaking has to be one of the worst things to have, it's such a guessing game!

Can I be nosy and ask what investigations you've had done please? We've tried a Danilon trial with no change & he's had his head/teeth X-ray'd (nothing untoward), guttural pouch scoped (nothing amiss) and a trimegal nerve block (only a very slight improvement). We also did a steroid trail with no real result - I'm at my wits end!


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## cascada27 (4 January 2017)

Hello, 
I was going to post about this and then came across this thread already!
My horse is going in tomorrow for a CT scan, nerve block and to start the PENS treatment (depending on the reaction to the nerve block, CT etc) - was looking for any stories from people who's horses have had this done. 
our story so far - Ive had him 7 years and he only started the headshaking last January.  
After a couple of months of the headshaking getting worse the vet came out to run tests.  He had his teeth checked, guttural pouches flushed, eyes checked, chiropractor out, X-rays, bone scan to check from any fractures, was on Pitiron tablets for a few months - nothing found to be abnormal. 
His headshaking is completely random -if hes shaking, then he does it in the field, in the stable, night and day, rain etc. then he might have a day or 2 where theres nothing.  I kept a diary for months trying to find some sort of link between the headshaking and anything, but nothing. 
In may last year he completely stopped - again no apparent reason. He had been referred over to the Langford veterinary practice for the nerve block/PENS treatment however as he had stopped i cancelled it as there was nothing for them to see.
No sign of any headshaking at all from May until October, when i clipped him and I think this triggered off the nerve and the handshakings been back and getting worse since then.
I do not ride him now because of it and haven't done as the headshaking is constant and he is doing it at all times apart from when he is eating in the field - so he is just living out as he seems happier. 
Like yourself - we have tried everything and nothing seems to work or show anything unusual.
Truly horrible condition.  I am again at a loss as to what to do next if this does not work!
You mentioned a drug trial in your post - are these the corticosteriods? I've been doing some reading on it all this morning and came across this treatment and alternative treatments - although not the miracle cure I've been hoping for


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## Dazed'n'confused (4 January 2017)

cascada27 said:



			Hello, 
I was going to post about this and then came across this thread already!
My horse is going in tomorrow for a CT scan, nerve block and to start the PENS treatment (depending on the reaction to the nerve block, CT etc) - was looking for any stories from people who's horses have had this done. 
our story so far - Ive had him 7 years and he only started the headshaking last January.  
After a couple of months of the headshaking getting worse the vet came out to run tests.  He had his teeth checked, guttural pouches flushed, eyes checked, chiropractor out, X-rays, bone scan to check from any fractures, was on Pitiron tablets for a few months - nothing found to be abnormal. 
His headshaking is completely random -if hes shaking, then he does it in the field, in the stable, night and day, rain etc. then he might have a day or 2 where theres nothing.  I kept a diary for months trying to find some sort of link between the headshaking and anything, but nothing. 
In may last year he completely stopped - again no apparent reason. He had been referred over to the Langford veterinary practice for the nerve block/PENS treatment however as he had stopped i cancelled it as there was nothing for them to see.
No sign of any headshaking at all from May until October, when i clipped him and I think this triggered off the nerve and the handshakings been back and getting worse since then.
I do not ride him now because of it and haven't done as the headshaking is constant and he is doing it at all times apart from when he is eating in the field - so he is just living out as he seems happier. 
Like yourself - we have tried everything and nothing seems to work or show anything unusual.
Truly horrible condition.  I am again at a loss as to what to do next if this does not work!
You mentioned a drug trial in your post - are these the corticosteriods? I've been doing some reading on it all this morning and came across this treatment and alternative treatments - although not the miracle cure I've been hoping for 

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Oh gosh you have my absolute sympathy, it's a total nightmare! 
I too have kept a diary but haven't really found a definite pattern of triggers. Mine has been scoped (all ok including guttural pouch), teeth/head X-ray (all ok) & trimegal nerve blocked (very little improvement). We tried a Pirtion trial - no difference, a bute trial - no difference & I'm currently giving him Tegretrol but he's been on it 3 weeks and he's still mainly unrideable! 
My vet wants to do a CT scan next (if the insurance will!) but I don't hold out much hope of finding the answer to it all...
It has to be the most soul destroying thing!
For the record (incase there's something that works for yours in amongst the list!), I've tried: 
Salt & magnesium (both mag ox & chloride & also Nuprafeed), 
No grass, 
24/7 grass, 
He has only fibre, no grain & I've tried no feed at all, 
Nose nets (net type & the Shakeaze one)
Full face masks
Total muzzle masks 
Nasal sprays
Different bridle types, bits, no bits (however he does it with nothing on loose in the school or when not grazing...)
Chiropractors,
New saddle, 
And finally....praying!!! ;p

I really hope your boy has the PENS therapy tomorrow and it starts to work! Please let me know how you get on, I'll keep everything crossed for you!


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## varkie (4 January 2017)

A friend of mine has had the PENS done on her horse, and having seen all they've gone through to get there, and the cost, I think I'd need real persuading by a vet - there doesn't appear to be a lot of improvement (if any) in my friends horse - for a lot of money and a lot of faff.


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## Dazed'n'confused (4 January 2017)

varkie said:



			A friend of mine has had the PENS done on her horse, and having seen all they've gone through to get there, and the cost, I think I'd need real persuading by a vet - there doesn't appear to be a lot of improvement (if any) in my friends horse - for a lot of money and a lot of faff.
		
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I have to say that I'm not keen either! I've researched head shaking till I'm square eyed and everything seems to be a hiding to nowhere when they're not just a seasonal shaker...
I absolutely adore my horse, I've looked for one like him for 10 years (while having others to back & sell) but I must confess to thinking that pts might be my only option - it's absolutely heartbreaking


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## cascada27 (4 January 2017)

Dazed'n'confused said:



			Oh gosh you have my absolute sympathy, it's a total nightmare! 
I too have kept a diary but haven't really found a definite pattern of triggers. Mine has been scoped (all ok including guttural pouch), teeth/head X-ray (all ok) & trimegal nerve blocked (very little improvement). We tried a Pirtion trial - no difference, a bute trial - no difference & I'm currently giving him Tegretrol but he's been on it 3 weeks and he's still mainly unrideable! 
My vet wants to do a CT scan next (if the insurance will!) but I don't hold out much hope of finding the answer to it all...
It has to be the most soul destroying thing!
For the record (incase there's something that works for yours in amongst the list!), I've tried: 
Salt & magnesium (both mag ox & chloride & also Nuprafeed), 
No grass, 
24/7 grass, 
He has only fibre, no grain & I've tried no feed at all, 
Nose nets (net type & the Shakeaze one)
Full face masks
Total muzzle masks 
Nasal sprays
Different bridle types, bits, no bits (however he does it with nothing on loose in the school or when not grazing...)
Chiropractors,
New saddle, 
And finally....praying!!! ;p

I really hope your boy has the PENS therapy tomorrow and it starts to work! Please let me know how you get on, I'll keep everything crossed for you!
		
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Oh sounds like you are in pretty much the same situation - interesting that yours showed little signs of improvement with the nerve block.  I think that mine will have that tomorrow before the PENS to see how he reacts.  I was under the impression that they would only do the PENS treatment if they showed a positive reaction from the nerve block  we shall see! 
Thanks for listing the other things you've tried - I have tried a couple of them.  I was reading up on the magnesium supplement today, was going to see if that was worth trying!
yes mine does it all the time as well so not just being ridden, its no worse when he was being ridden, it was just the same.  He does it more when hes tied up, or out in the field, anywhere really. Of course now im worried because he is living out all the time as being in makes it worse, that he will get too fat and end up with other problems.  Is yours living out, or is he okay being stabled?  I find if mine isnt grazing then he does it constantly and its more distressing for him.

I will keep the post updated and let you know how we get on!  I hope that there becomes more known about the condition and in time they can develop a cure as its such a horrible feeling knowing there's not much that can be done.

Varkie - ah yes - I have heard that the success rate of it is less that 50%, so no miracle cure  but worth doing while we are covered by the insurance if we are going to try it.  My insurance only runs until the 31st January so we are only covered until then. Seeing as its been so bad the last month or so I though if we were going to try the PENS then the time should really be now!

I've heard of a few people who have had some success with acupuncture - not a cure, but seen case studies where it has eased the shaking.


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## Dazed'n'confused (4 January 2017)

cascada27 said:



			Oh sounds like you are in pretty much the same situation - interesting that yours showed little signs of improvement with the nerve block.  I think that mine will have that tomorrow before the PENS to see how he reacts.  I was under the impression that they would only do the PENS treatment if they showed a positive reaction from the nerve block  we shall see! 
Thanks for listing the other things you've tried - I have tried a couple of them.  I was reading up on the magnesium supplement today, was going to see if that was worth trying!
yes mine does it all the time as well so not just being ridden, its no worse when he was being ridden, it was just the same.  He does it more when hes tied up, or out in the field, anywhere really. Of course now im worried because he is living out all the time as being in makes it worse, that he will get too fat and end up with other problems.  Is yours living out, or is he okay being stabled?  I find if mine isnt grazing then he does it constantly and its more distressing for him.

I will keep the post updated and let you know how we get on!  I hope that there becomes more known about the condition and in time they can develop a cure as its such a horrible feeling knowing there's not much that can be done.

Varkie - ah yes - I have heard that the success rate of it is less that 50%, so no miracle cure  but worth doing while we are covered by the insurance if we are going to try it.  My insurance only runs until the 31st January so we are only covered until then. Seeing as its been so bad the last month or so I though if we were going to try the PENS then the time should really be now!

I've heard of a few people who have had some success with acupuncture - not a cure, but seen case studies where it has eased the shaking.
		
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Do give Nuprafeed magnesium a try, quite a few have had success with it! 
It's just so hard - like trying to piece an enormous jigsaw together when you haven't got the box lid to tell you what the picture actually is, plus some of the pieces are missing!
Mine is ok in the stable thankfully. He lives in at night & out during the day, although he was out 24/7 in summer. He is also ok in the field when grazing & (strangely) when it's cold & frosty! He can be fine when hacking up the roads but as soon as we hit grass/woods he starts (although he has previously hacked everywhere without doing it!) He is definitely worse when the weather warms up after a cold spell but other than that, there's no siginficant triggers that I can put my finger on...
My problem is that he's a big, young, boisterous warmblood who gets cheeky when not worked so I feel I have to keep trying to do a bit with him when I think I might be able to just to keep his brain amused (otherwise he undresses his friends in the field & harasses them to play!!) 
Good luck tomorrow - it's worth a try seeing as he's at the vets anyway!


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## cascada27 (5 January 2017)

Oh gosh yes, that's tricky isn't it. It's the struggle between trying to keep them entertained and their mental wellbeing okay, and not wanting to cause any unnecessary triggers of the headshaking.
Had our CT scan which came back clear (as expected). Got him in from the field at 6am this morning, no head shaking, although as you said in your last post, mine is also slightly better in the cold and frost! No headshaking on the journey to the vets either (90mins each way!) and none when I settled him into the stable either. Showed the vet the videos I had incase for some reason he didn't headshake throughout the day, he agreed he was a headshaker. No head shaking on the lunge either but started doing it badly after the CT scan.
Had our first session of the PENS treatment. The vet said that the right side of his face he tolerated the PENS well, but the left side was really tricky and was causing him a lot of pain when they were doing it, so that side of the nerve must be the most sensitive. Poor boy has 2 shaved patches on his face, neck and back, looked very sleepy when I went and got him, but no headshaking on the way back and went out happily to the field, had a roll and a little run around. Vet said it is very uncomfortable for him when he is headshaking but that he seems fine in himself when he's not doing it - when they are grazing, the stimulation from their muzzle eating the grass can distract/help which is why he doesn't do it when he is grazing. 
Next treatment booked for next Friday. They said I probably won't notice anything after this treatment but hopefully there will be an improvement a few days after the one next Friday. But mainly the improvement (if there's going to be one) will be about a week after the last treatment - they said it can get worse before it gets any improvement! Going to go and get some magnesium for him at the weekend and try that as well!
Will keep the post updated on our progress - hopefully its of use/interesting. I know each case is different but might give you more of an insight if your considering it for your boy


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## Dazed'n'confused (6 January 2017)

cascada27 said:



			Oh gosh yes, that's tricky isn't it. It's the struggle between trying to keep them entertained and their mental wellbeing okay, and not wanting to cause any unnecessary triggers of the headshaking.
Had our CT scan which came back clear (as expected). Got him in from the field at 6am this morning, no head shaking, although as you said in your last post, mine is also slightly better in the cold and frost! No headshaking on the journey to the vets either (90mins each way!) and none when I settled him into the stable either. Showed the vet the videos I had incase for some reason he didn't headshake throughout the day, he agreed he was a headshaker. No head shaking on the lunge either but started doing it badly after the CT scan.
Had our first session of the PENS treatment. The vet said that the right side of his face he tolerated the PENS well, but the left side was really tricky and was causing him a lot of pain when they were doing it, so that side of the nerve must be the most sensitive. Poor boy has 2 shaved patches on his face, neck and back, looked very sleepy when I went and got him, but no headshaking on the way back and went out happily to the field, had a roll and a little run around. Vet said it is very uncomfortable for him when he is headshaking but that he seems fine in himself when he's not doing it - when they are grazing, the stimulation from their muzzle eating the grass can distract/help which is why he doesn't do it when he is grazing. 
Next treatment booked for next Friday. They said I probably won't notice anything after this treatment but hopefully there will be an improvement a few days after the one next Friday. But mainly the improvement (if there's going to be one) will be about a week after the last treatment - they said it can get worse before it gets any improvement! Going to go and get some magnesium for him at the weekend and try that as well!
Will keep the post updated on our progress - hopefully its of use/interesting. I know each case is different but might give you more of an insight if your considering it for your boy 

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Thank you so much for the update, it's much appreciated! Your boy sounds as random in his head shaking as mine at times, it's a total mystery! I know that sometimes if he's giddy or in a new situation it doesn't show because he's distracted but as soon as he settles he's back to being in agony! I have never been so frustrated in all the years I've had horses (& that's saying something ;p )!! I hate seeing him in pain, it's clearly agony...

I confess to giggling at your video collection - I have one too! I feel the need to prove to the vets that he does it because I think they thought I was imagining it (it was mild at first)! 

Hope the PENS has some effect (eventually) - please update me again if possible! 
Mine has another 10 days on Tegretrol & then I need to decide what to do next...


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## cascada27 (7 January 2017)

Dazed'n'confused said:



			Thank you so much for the update, it's much appreciated! Your boy sounds as random in his head shaking as mine at times, it's a total mystery! I know that sometimes if he's giddy or in a new situation it doesn't show because he's distracted but as soon as he settles he's back to being in agony! I have never been so frustrated in all the years I've had horses (& that's saying something ;p )!! I hate seeing him in pain, it's clearly agony...

I confess to giggling at your video collection - I have one too! I feel the need to prove to the vets that he does it because I think they thought I was imagining it (it was mild at first)! 

Hope the PENS has some effect (eventually) - please update me again if possible! 
Mine has another 10 days on Tegretrol & then I need to decide what to do next...
		
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Update day 2 - so yesterday 1 day after the first PENS treatment and he was so so much worse than he had been before.  I went down to the field and he was stood with his tail under another horses tail head shaking   Was so hard to see. Took me ages to bring him in as he was rubbing his head on me and anything he could.  I noticed in the field when he was moving when he was grazing he was rubbing his muzzle along the ground. I imagine his face was sore from the treatment.  Apparently they aren't meant to be any worse after the first treatment, however I think because his left side was so sore and he found the treatment so awful, it perhaps will take a few days to settle.  Was a hard day yesterday, felt awful and so sad that he was in so much pain. 
Today however he seems a bit better - still lots of head shaking, however no where near as bad and distressing as yesterday! This afternoon when I went down to change his rug we had only 1 large twitch and a little bit when walking along but not much else.  Still rubbing his head on me and a bit of the rubbing his muzzle on the ground when he is grazing but feel a little better about it all today as he seemed happier. I'm hoping that's positive, although its hard to tell if that's just him having a good moment! I've started him on the magnesium supplement as well - cant do any harm!

Keep me updated on your boy as well and what you decide to do next. Has the Tegretol had any effect at all? I know the vet mentioned there were some different drug trials that were being done.  Yes always worth taking lots of videos to keep track of it! Ours was the same - started off mild and then progressed gradually to being awful! 

(can see his shaved patched from the first treatment!)


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## Dazed'n'confused (7 January 2017)

cascada27 said:



			Update day 2 - so yesterday 1 day after the first PENS treatment and he was so so much worse than he had been before.  I went down to the field and he was stood with his tail under another horses tail head shaking   Was so hard to see. Took me ages to bring him in as he was rubbing his head on me and anything he could.  I noticed in the field when he was moving when he was grazing he was rubbing his muzzle along the ground. I imagine his face was sore from the treatment.  Apparently they aren't meant to be any worse after the first treatment, however I think because his left side was so sore and he found the treatment so awful, it perhaps will take a few days to settle.  Was a hard day yesterday, felt awful and so sad that he was in so much pain. 
Today however he seems a bit better - still lots of head shaking, however no where near as bad and distressing as yesterday! This afternoon when I went down to change his rug we had only 1 large twitch and a little bit when walking along but not much else.  Still rubbing his head on me and a bit of the rubbing his muzzle on the ground when he is grazing but feel a little better about it all today as he seemed happier. I'm hoping that's positive, although its hard to tell if that's just him having a good moment! I've started him on the magnesium supplement as well - cant do any harm!

Keep me updated on your boy as well and what you decide to do next. Has the Tegretol had any effect at all? I know the vet mentioned there were some different drug trials that were being done.  Yes always worth taking lots of videos to keep track of it! Ours was the same - started off mild and then progressed gradually to being awful! 

(can see his shaved patched from the first treatment!)






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Ooof I bet you felt awful for him on the first day, poor boy. At least he seems less sore today! I wish I had a magic wand to wave over them both so we could have our pain free boys back! 
I find it difficult when I know mine is in constant pain - I walked him out in hand this morning (very misty so I knew he might be not too bad!!) & then lunged him as he's beside himself with cheekiness! He didn't twitch much but he was reluctant to go forwards & he actually fell on his knees once as he was so desperate to itch his face.... 
The Tegretol has had no positive effect as far as I can tell! He is however just "off a beat" which I think accounts for the falling over (he's done it a few times now which has started since he's been on the drugs). My vet did say to be careful riding as he could be drowsy.....marvellous...not!!! To humour the vet I'll do the month's trial but I can't see him suddenly coming right in the next 10 days...


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## cascada27 (16 January 2017)

Dazed'n'confused said:



			Ooof I bet you felt awful for him on the first day, poor boy. At least he seems less sore today! I wish I had a magic wand to wave over them both so we could have our pain free boys back! 
I find it difficult when I know mine is in constant pain - I walked him out in hand this morning (very misty so I knew he might be not too bad!!) & then lunged him as he's beside himself with cheekiness! He didn't twitch much but he was reluctant to go forwards & he actually fell on his knees once as he was so desperate to itch his face.... 
The Tegretol has had no positive effect as far as I can tell! He is however just "off a beat" which I think accounts for the falling over (he's done it a few times now which has started since he's been on the drugs). My vet did say to be careful riding as he could be drowsy.....marvellous...not!!! To humour the vet I'll do the month's trial but I can't see him suddenly coming right in the next 10 days... 

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Oh thats interesting about the drug trial that is makes them drowsy :s thats not great, although if it stopped the headshaking i would take that anyday!  Yours must be right at the end of the trial now - any improvements at all? Have you thought about what you will try next?

We had our second PENS treatment on Friday.  I stayed with him the whole time (didn't realize I was aloud too otherwise would have stayed the first time!)
Was very interesting too watch, and he responded much better on his sore side than he did the previous time, which was positive.  He had been so bad the previous week after the first treatment - head shaking constantly, rubbing his head and dragging his muzzle on the ground, that i was so worried to take him back for the second treatment - the vet did say if he was still horrendously bad to maybe postpone the second one as we didnt want to make anything worse if it was sore. However the evening before i went down and he seemed a little better, although that could be because he seems to be slightly better at night and in the cold rather than in the day when the handshakings awful.

I got some Finadyne from the vet to give him for a few days after the treatment, as i was so worried he would be as bad as he was again after the first treatment, but he seems to be less headshakey (that we have seen - although we are only down at the yard for such a small amount of the day that its so difficult to tell) But no where near as bad as after the first treatment.  Whether thats just the anti inflammatory stuff of if hes having a few 'good' days its hard to tell. Still on the magnesium supplement as well.

Next treatment is booked for next Friday, although the vet said if we start seeing any positive effects then push it back by a week - fingers crossed.

My vet did also mention some neurological pain relief meds that we can try if this doesn't work (cant remember the name of them - will find out next week) that some people have had very positive effects in head shaking with.  He did say they are horribly expensive - few hundred a month) however we will try those if this doesn't help!

Let me know which route you decide to go down as well!  Will keep you updated on our progress too.


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## Dazed'n'confused (16 January 2017)

cascada27 said:



			Oh thats interesting about the drug trial that is makes them drowsy :s thats not great, although if it stopped the headshaking i would take that anyday!  Yours must be right at the end of the trial now - any improvements at all? Have you thought about what you will try next?

We had our second PENS treatment on Friday.  I stayed with him the whole time (didn't realize I was aloud too otherwise would have stayed the first time!)
Was very interesting too watch, and he responded much better on his sore side than he did the previous time, which was positive.  He had been so bad the previous week after the first treatment - head shaking constantly, rubbing his head and dragging his muzzle on the ground, that i was so worried to take him back for the second treatment - the vet did say if he was still horrendously bad to maybe postpone the second one as we didnt want to make anything worse if it was sore. However the evening before i went down and he seemed a little better, although that could be because he seems to be slightly better at night and in the cold rather than in the day when the handshakings awful.

I got some Finadyne from the vet to give him for a few days after the treatment, as i was so worried he would be as bad as he was again after the first treatment, but he seems to be less headshakey (that we have seen - although we are only down at the yard for such a small amount of the day that its so difficult to tell) But no where near as bad as after the first treatment.  Whether thats just the anti inflammatory stuff of if hes having a few 'good' days its hard to tell. Still on the magnesium supplement as well.

Next treatment is booked for next Friday, although the vet said if we start seeing any positive effects then push it back by a week - fingers crossed.

My vet did also mention some neurological pain relief meds that we can try if this doesn't work (cant remember the name of them - will find out next week) that some people have had very positive effects in head shaking with.  He did say they are horribly expensive - few hundred a month) however we will try those if this doesn't help!

Let me know which route you decide to go down as well!  Will keep you updated on our progress too.
		
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Hi, was wondering today how you were getting on! Glad to hear that he's not as bad after his treatment this time! Fingers crossed he shows more improvement.
There's another drug similar to Tegretol that my vet mentioned (can't remember the name either!!) - they both work on neurological pain I think! 

Mine has finished his Tegretol trial with no improvement shown at all. I'd say he's 99% unrideable at the moment - we grab the odd day of work now & then but he's still uncomfortable on these days - he actually seems worse at the moment, even head shaking when it's cold & frosty...  
Spoke to the vet today & she said we could do a steroid trial or go for a CT scan. I don't see the point of trying more drugs at the moment so have opted for CT & go from there. I don't expect to find anything but at least it rules it out! 

Will let you know how we get on too!


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## cascada27 (16 January 2017)

Dazed'n'confused said:



			Hi, was wondering today how you were getting on! Glad to hear that he's not as bad after his treatment this time! Fingers crossed he shows more improvement.
There's another drug similar to Tegretol that my vet mentioned (can't remember the name either!!) - they both work on neurological pain I think! 

Mine has finished his Tegretol trial with no improvement shown at all. I'd say he's 99% unrideable at the moment - we grab the odd day of work now & then but he's still uncomfortable on these days - he actually seems worse at the moment, even head shaking when it's cold & frosty...  
Spoke to the vet today & she said we could do a steroid trial or go for a CT scan. I don't see the point of trying more drugs at the moment so have opted for CT & go from there. I don't expect to find anything but at least it rules it out! 

Will let you know how we get on too! 

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Oh that's such a shame it's had no effect! Ah maybe the drug I'm thinking of it the other one you mentioned then - I don't think there's many out there so could be. 
Oh it's so horrible  I wish it would just go away for all of them that suffer with it. 
Yeah worth doing a CT - just another think to cross off the list really, but you never know. 
I haven't been able to exercise mine for about 2 months  even lunging seems to make it so much worse. 
Vet said he's close to being dangerously fat so he's got to be on restricted grazing  if he's out on grass then it distracts him a bit from the head shaking but now he's dangerously fat - worried if I restrict his grazing he will just stand and headshake! He seemed to be okay today though - day 1 of the diet and no headshaking again this evening when I was down. I did read a study where on the second treatment they headshaking improved for 4 days and then came back ...just a waiting game now to see what happens!


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## spotty_pony2 (16 January 2017)

Sorry only just seen this! I've just posted a full report of where we are up to on this board if you want to read. We went back to Rossdales but because he didn't respond at all to the nerve block they are now reluctant to do the PENS and tbh we aren't even sure it's worth putting him through it if it isn't going to help. I'm going down the allergy route now, and then going to look at Crania Sacral Therapy and Acupuncture. Completely know what you are going through though - it's a nightmare isn't it and so upsetting!


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## Dazed'n'confused (16 January 2017)

cascada27 said:



			Oh that's such a shame it's had no effect! Ah maybe the drug I'm thinking of it the other one you mentioned then - I don't think there's many out there so could be. 
Oh it's so horrible  I wish it would just go away for all of them that suffer with it. 
Yeah worth doing a CT - just another think to cross off the list really, but you never know. 
I haven't been able to exercise mine for about 2 months  even lunging seems to make it so much worse. 
Vet said he's close to being dangerously fat so he's got to be on restricted grazing  if he's out on grass then it distracts him a bit from the head shaking but now he's dangerously fat - worried if I restrict his grazing he will just stand and headshake! He seemed to be okay today though - day 1 of the diet and no headshaking again this evening when I was down. I did read a study where on the second treatment they headshaking improved for 4 days and then came back ...just a waiting game now to see what happens!
		
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Argh, if it's not one thing it's another!! Hopefully he'll be ok on his diet & continue to improve! You're doing all you can, I really feel for you!


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## Dazed'n'confused (16 January 2017)

spotty_pony2 said:



			Sorry only just seen this! I've just posted a full report of where we are up to on this board if you want to read. We went back to Rossdales but because he didn't respond at all to the nerve block they are now reluctant to do the PENS and tbh we aren't even sure it's worth putting him through it if it isn't going to help. I'm going down the allergy route now, and then going to look at Crania Sacral Therapy and Acupuncture. Completely know what you are going through though - it's a nightmare isn't it and so upsetting! 

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Ooo will have a look thanks - all info greatly received! 
It's heartbreaking, let's hope we can all find something that helps but I have to say that the more I look into it all, the less optimistic I am...


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## spotty_pony (16 January 2017)

Yes, so am I. I was very upset this morning just because I feel like I am unable to help him.


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## cascada27 (16 January 2017)

Yes  it really is the most horrid thing to have to watch them go through. Fingers crossed the more research that goes on the closer they get to finding something to treat it. Fingers crossed for them all! 
It's interesting to see all the updates and different routes that everyone is trying though - I'm sure you both feel the same that you've read pretty much everything there is to read about it so interesting that our 3 are all trying different options.


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## Dazed'n'confused (17 January 2017)

cascada27 said:



			Yes  it really is the most horrid thing to have to watch them go through. Fingers crossed the more research that goes on the closer they get to finding something to treat it. Fingers crossed for them all! 
It's interesting to see all the updates and different routes that everyone is trying though - I'm sure you both feel the same that you've read pretty much everything there is to read about it so interesting that our 3 are all trying different options.
		
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The trouble is that there's so little that they know about it that the vets are as flummoxed as we are and just go with almost a "guess" (albeit an educated one!) as to what they try and in what order! Frustrating!!

The hardest days for me are the ones where he's not too bad outwardly (just a few twitches & nose shutting) & others in the yard will say "oh is he ok now", yet I can see the pain in his eyes and knowing what a gentleman he is I know that he's carrying on despite having an immense headache. 
Also when he's in his stable he's OK unless stressed so he goes back to being his cheeky self & is all soft and playful..... I could cry for him


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## cascada27 (17 January 2017)

Dazed'n'confused said:



			The trouble is that there's so little that they know about it that the vets are as flummoxed as we are and just go with almost a "guess" (albeit an educated one!) as to what they try and in what order! Frustrating!!

The hardest days for me are the ones where he's not too bad outwardly (just a few twitches & nose shutting) & others in the yard will say "oh is he ok now", yet I can see the pain in his eyes and knowing what a gentleman he is I know that he's carrying on despite having an immense headache. 
Also when he's in his stable he's OK unless stressed so he goes back to being his cheeky self & is all soft and playful..... I could cry for him 

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Yeah i totally agree - theres so little known and everything seems to vary between one horse and the next so its just trial and error with each individual horse. 

Oh I know - I know exactly what you are talking about - I sometimes think when mine doesn't do it because hes just tired of head shaking but I'm sure its still there.  When you know your own animal so well you can tell when they have a change in their personality that other people wont notice, its heartbreaking!!

I'm finding it really difficult not being around all the time - I'm only there for such a small part of the day that its really difficult to say how he is - he could be headshaking constantly for the 23 hours I'm not there and then not do it for the time I'm there and i would think that he was having a non headshaking day - but really I don't know!


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## spotty_pony2 (17 January 2017)

Do your horses wear nose nets in the stable/field out of interest? It does help my boy a lot but doesn't completely get rid of the symptoms but I found he had to wear it for a good few days for the symptoms to lessen.


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## Dazed'n'confused (17 January 2017)

spotty_pony2 said:



			Do your horses wear nose nets in the stable/field out of interest? It does help my boy a lot but doesn't completely get rid of the symptoms but I found he had to wear it for a good few days for the symptoms to lessen.
		
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Mine is ok in the stable 95% of the time so doesn't wear one inside. In summer he had a full ear/eye/nose mask on which did help a bit as he's very reactive to flies, although on bad days it almost irritated him more & he would roll it off! I do work him in a nose net but again some days it makes him worse - I can usually tell when I go to touch his muzzle, he jerks away as if I've given him an electric shock - he then can't stand a net on...


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## cascada27 (17 January 2017)

spotty_pony2 said:



			Do your horses wear nose nets in the stable/field out of interest? It does help my boy a lot but doesn't completely get rid of the symptoms but I found he had to wear it for a good few days for the symptoms to lessen.
		
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I've not been riding mine at all since it started back this time so not sure if it would make a difference or not. 
I did buy one beginning of last year to try when he was ridden but the headshaking stopped before I tried it. However he doesn't like having a head collar on when he's shaking so don't think he would like that left on in the field. 

Update - on day 4 after second PENS treatment - only a couple of head shakes since he has had the second lot, very very minimal and no shaking for the last 2 days from what I can see. Haven't attempted to ride as paranoid about triggering it back, but managed to bring him in and brush him etc and no shaking. 
Don't want to get my hopes up too high as I know it will return - been nice the last few days seeing him with basically no symptoms even if it is temporary.


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## Dazed'n'confused (17 January 2017)

Ooo fingers crossed it continues! It must be lovely for him to have some respite from it.
I've had to keep trying to work mine so I can see if the drug trial has worked at all (hes not bad enough in the field to truly tell) - if I have to tack up, get on & get off again 5 mins later once more I shall scream!!! Sometimes he's not too horrific in walk but I daren't trot because I know it'll start to get worse!!


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## cascada27 (17 January 2017)

Dazed'n'confused said:



			Ooo fingers crossed it continues! It must be lovely for him to have some respite from it.
I've had to keep trying to work mine so I can see if the drug trial has worked at all (hes not bad enough in the field to truly tell) - if I have to tack up, get on & get off again 5 mins later once more I shall scream!!! Sometimes he's not too horrific in walk but I daren't trot because I know it'll start to get worse!!
		
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Yeah I feel like he's happier and more relaxed in himself. Just praying when it comes back it's not as bad as it was before. When he's. or grazing he just stands head shaking in the field so there was no point in my trying to exercise him as he was bad enough just in the field. Will have to see how he does over the next week or so. Would be lovely to be able to ride and exercise him again at some point but at this point I just want him to be able to be a normal horse and graze and be happy in himself! 
That's positive that yours isn't that bad in the field - least he can be out grazing okay. Yeah I think a lot of the studies are only considered a 'success' when the horse is back to the same level of work as they were before the head shaking. I'm meant to try and exercise mine to see how the PENS is working but because he was so bad just being in the field and being brought in etc that I'm just not going to push it at all for the time being as too worried it will come back! If he's still showing little or no symptoms by the weekend I might attempt a lunge to see how he does!
Gosh yes I can imagine that's so frustrating tacking up just to find he's headshaking so badly you have to get off  poor boys!


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## spotty_pony2 (19 January 2017)

Do either of yours also suffers with itchy skin and twitch all over their bodies a lot? Just wondering if this is a typical symptom or not?


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## cascada27 (19 January 2017)

No mine doesn't seem to be itchy at all or twitch. Just the head shaking! That does sound like it could be allergy related if yours is itchy and twitchy on his body? 
Have you had the allergy tests yet? I have no idea how they actually do it - can they test for all sorts?


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## spotty_pony2 (19 January 2017)

No, we haven't had allergy tests and strangely haven't even been offered them. Am going to push to have them done after he has finished the steroid trial he is currently on (which I don't think is making such a difference as last time) I think my Vet can do them so won't have to go anywhere either which is good. I think they inject certain allergens into the body and then take blood samples to see if there's a reaction but not sure myself! Also they do skin scrapes I think too. Will be worth knowing though so that's the next thing we are going to do.


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## Dazed'n'confused (20 January 2017)

Mine isn't ridiculously itchy/twitchy either! 

A friend had a horse allergy tested after it came out in hives on and off for 3 months - turned out she was allergic to the conifers that next door had planted! 
Fingers crossed something shows up for you and you can get him comfortable again..


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## Dazed'n'confused (28 January 2017)

Cascada, how's your boy getting on? Any improvement? 
Mine goes for a CT scan on Tues - not optimistic about them finding anything of any help!! Definitely not looking forward to travelling a big silly warmblood who I can't work any energy off...


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## cascada27 (29 January 2017)

Oh good luck for Tuesday!! I guess even if they don't find anything it will be another thing ruled out. Have you got far to travel him?? Have you noticed any change since he's been off the drug trial?
Mines been okay - the headshaking was much improved for the first 5 days after the second treatment, although it was still there when I tried to do anything with him in the day.
We were meant to have the Third treatment last Friday but as there had been a slight improvement they said to push it back to next Friday. 
It's defiantly slightly better than it was when it was really bad, he has better days and worse days. Seems to be worse in the day and better morning and evening, which is frustrating as I'm not there in the day to monitor him. He's been in a restricted grazing field at night and out in the main heard field in the day so hoping he might lose a bit of weight. That means he's more interested in eating during the day which distracts a bit from the headshaking. The weathers been so horrible here today, so much rain: I noticed when I brought him in this evening that he was walking with his head turned out of the rain - I think the rain was hurting him as he had his worse side turned away from it, even though he wasn't actually head shaking! Left him in the stable overnight for the first time tonight since the headshaking came back so hopefully he's not just stood there overnight doing it. Will let you know how he gets on after the 3rd treatment. It's still very much there but I have noticed an improvement, and just trying to manage it by leaving him be in the day so he can eat and bringing him in to brush etc in the evening when it's not as bad! Fingers crossed that the 3rd one brings more positive results!


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## Dazed'n'confused (29 January 2017)

Glad to hear you've seen some improvement! Hopefully the next treatment will help even more! 
Mine is better first thing in a morning. I was able to do a bit with him last week (a lunge and two short hacks!), although he was stopping to rub his face a lot and was really, really bad one day, for no reason that I could think of! He has also been worse in the field which is strange given that he was vaguely workable! He also twitched while eating his tea yesterday which is a first when he's in his stable...
The vets is an hour away - he's not the best traveller as he loses his patience so fingers crossed we make it in one piece!! 
Will let you know how we get on! They have a particular interest in head shaking cases so I'll try to get as much info out of them as poss & pass it on!!


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## baloo1 (30 January 2017)

Just found this thread and thought I'd add with a success story.  My horse was part of the initial study trial with Veronica Roberts down at Langford Equine.  He has been shake free for 3 and half years now, although is still incredibly sensitive to any stimuli (flies in particular) around his nose.  Prior to the study he was horrific and the PENs was a last ditch attempt, but it was honestly the best ting I ever did!  I really hope your horse responds to the treatment and if you want any information, etc on him / how he behaved etc, feel free to ask and I'll help as much as I can. On the back of this, I've also set up a Facebook group called Head Shaking UK as I found that there wasn't that much helpful information out there.


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## cascada27 (30 January 2017)

baloo1 said:



			Just found this thread and thought I'd add with a success story.  My horse was part of the initial study trial with Veronica Roberts down at Langford Equine.  He has been shake free for 3 and half years now, although is still incredibly sensitive to any stimuli (flies in particular) around his nose.  Prior to the study he was horrific and the PENs was a last ditch attempt, but it was honestly the best ting I ever did!  I really hope your horse responds to the treatment and if you want any information, etc on him / how he behaved etc, feel free to ask and I'll help as much as I can. On the back of this, I've also set up a Facebook group called Head Shaking UK as I found that there wasn't that much helpful information out there.
		
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Oh thats so good to hear - really pleased that you have one of the (seemingly rare) success stories 

We were originally referred to veronica last year when my boy first started the shaking, but then he stopped as quickly as it started after about 3 months and it only returned in October - but 100 times worse and has been consistent now.  Have now been referred to Liphook where he has had the first and second treatment so far!

Can i ask how your horse responded after each of the 3 treatments?  So far mine was so so much worse after the first, and then responded much better to the second one  - we are now going for the 3rd after pushing it back by a week.  Headshaking still there but it does seem slightly better than how it was. Still unrideable and spends most of the time out in the field grazing - more my fear of making it any worse by trying to do anything with him!!  
Would be very interested to hear a bit more about how yours responded after the treatments.  Has he had any sort of headshaking since? Was he diagnosed as having any triggers to the headshaking or was he just a constant head shaker?

(sorry for all the questions - i will look for the group on facebook too!)


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## baloo1 (30 January 2017)

I know I've been really lucky with him.  Dude actually ended up having 5 treatments in total.  He started in the December and had the first two (we're in Durham so he was in livery down at Bristol for two weeks) and over the Christmas he had improved loads.  Just before he was going back down for his last treatment he fractured his leg in the field, so obviously couldn't travel back.  He re-started the trial again at the end of May and had his first two treatments again, and again he came back and the difference was amazing!  I just treated him as normal and went back to schooling and hacking but obviously keeping an eye on him.  He lasted almost two months before having to have his third and final treatment, which again went really well.
I have him on a head shaking supplement from Hack-up which is probably more of a placebo than anything but I daren't take him off it!  He's also ridden and turned out in a full fly mask while there's any trace of flies.  I've been riding still in his fly mask up to December this year.  Without it he reverts back to uncontrollable head shaking and is virtually unrideable again.  It's really strange but after the treatments he's become very sensitive around his nose.

Regarding when he first started head shaking, there were no triggers at all (I suspected possibly rape seed made it a lot worse but couldn't prove it).  He had the CT scans, etc and was diagnosed an ideopathic head shaker.  He literally started overnight, there were no triggers etc, which I think made it so much harder to accept.

I really hope your boy responds and if I can help at all feel free to post in the group / ask me


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## cascada27 (30 January 2017)

Oh that's really interesting! - I actually just went in and read your story on the page! Gosh - that must have been hard when he fractured his leg poor boy, having to deal with that and headshaking.  That seems like he reacted really well to it - im slightly concerned with my boy as he had such a negative response to the first treatment and the second one, although its slightly improved, its not gone by any means. 

Very interesting about the flies as well - ive not tried mine in a fly mask in the field.  Last year the headshaking disappeared when the summer months came in, around June, but not sure what this summer holds as its meant to be something that only gets worse over time, rather than better.  I might try putting a fly mask on him and see if that makes a difference.  
Its such a horrible condition  and all the case studies i seem to read on it have completely different results/triggers etc so its so hard to know what will happen.  Your post has given me some hope though with this treatment, fingers crossed!


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## baloo1 (30 January 2017)

Yeah he's been very unlucky but on the same hand also very lucky!  Now you would never know he's had any problems at all, he back out competing and behaving like the stallion he used to be!

I'll keep everything crossed for your boy - I'm trying to find the article from Your Horse that Dude was in to publish on the page, which might offer some help too.  My boyfriend accidentally recycled the original copy ....!


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## spotty_pony2 (30 January 2017)

Update on my boy: a pattern has pretty much been established with his head shaking. He is always worse in the morning having been in the stable overnight. He wears the nosenet 24/7 except in the field when he is virtually symptom free with only the occasional head shake or sneeze. 

Sometimes he is fine until I take his rug off and then he goes very twitchy on his body and starts head shaking and sneezing. Vet came out last week and wasn't overly helpful. Doesn't seem to have a solution other than turn him out which I think his just avoiding the problem IMO. He is reasonably comfortable in stable in nose net so I see no problem in continuing with same routine in case he gets much worse then I will reconsider. 

Still pushing for allergy tests which she doesn't seem keen on doing but I want to rule it out. Especially as he had some small lumps on top of his back leg the other morning like a rash of some sort! Had chiropractor out today and his TMJ joint was out of alignment and that has now been sorted so will see how he is tomorrow. Doubt it will have been just that but that would have been adding to his discomfort for sure. Chiropractor agrees with me it sounds like allergy related condition. 

In all honesty the vets do not seem too bothered now insurance money has nearly ran out and we have declined the PENS even if they decide to offer it as it's just too invasive IMO and with him reacting negatively to the nerve blocks it isn't suspected to be Trigeminal Nerualgia as much as before.


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## cascada27 (30 January 2017)

Oh yes that does sound like it could be allergy related - I wonder why the vets aren't too keen on allergy testing. It seems like it's a good thing to test for, given his symptoms! Or at least another thing to rule out.
Mine also can start headshaking when I change rugs, although more when I put his rugs on - this evening he was fine and as it was raining I thought I would bring him in for the night - no head shaking until I changed his rug, then that was it the headshaking started and had to put him back out as he's much better when he's out as he can graze to distract himself. 
I think if you can manage it with the nose nets etc if he's comfortable then least he can continue in his routine, that's what I've been trying to do -trying to avoid making it worse! Hopefully you can get your allergy tests done and it might show up something. Fingers crossed!


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## Dazed'n'confused (31 January 2017)

So we went for the CT today - luckily he travelled well and arrived calmly. After discussion with the vet about his symptoms etc we lunged him and his head shaking was very obvious but not as bad as it can be.
They looked at him for 3 hours in total and nerve blocked his face higher up than had been done before......he was then lunged again and was absolutely horrendous it was very hard to watch as he was clearly in distress even when stood still...
They the CT scanned him which didn't throw up anything of any significance (which was as expected).
Having started out speaking to me about PENS therapy as something to consider, the vet ended the day saying that given his reaction to the nerve block he didn't think it would be successful for him and also given that he's 6yrs old, the lasting effectiveness would be negligible...
He said that the best thing for him would be to have him put down....
It isn't a shock to hear this, I knew in reality that that was the way we were heading, however he asked if I would be taking him home or if I wanted to leave him for them to put down which really brought it home....
He's currently home in his familiar stable where he'll be loved, spoilt and I'll have him pts where he's happy...
I'm heartbroken, I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to do without him 

Spotty-pony, I hope you manage to get your vets to allergy test your boy, it does sound as if there is something that sets him off inside.


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## cascada27 (31 January 2017)

Oh I'm so sorry to hear this  that's absolutely devastating! Even though as you've said its not something that you were completely surprised to hear, having it actually said out loud must just be horrendous.
Not sure if its of any use - but seeing as they both seem to react in similar ways/no triggers etc - mine never actually had a nerve block before going ahead with the PENS.  When they saw the head shaking the decided to offer the PENS treatment and said there wasn't much point in doing the nerve block as they were confident that it was the nerve. I dont know much about the nerve block, but i wonder what surface area it actually covers as its quite a long nerve - if the block didn't quite cover the area thats causing the problem, could it actually make the symptoms worse? I dont know :s
Have you thought about contacting Veronica Roberts at Bristol who pioneered the PENS treatment and is one of the leading Headshaking researchers as a last resort - maybe get her view on whether she thinks it would be worth a shot?  I guess they dont know enough really about the long term effectiveness of the treatment as its so new. 
This truly is one of the most heartbreaking conditions that could happen to these poor horses, I literally cant even imagine how this must feel being told that - although inevitably it sounds like the majority of us in this situation face the same decision, except for a few lucky ones that manage to respond well enough to manage the condition. 
So sorry to hear this - I really feel for you   Is there any way you think that he could be retired to field as a companion - or is the headshaking too bad even in the field to be managed?


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## Dazed'n'confused (31 January 2017)

cascada27 said:



			Oh I'm so sorry to hear this  that's absolutely devastating! Even though as you've said its not something that you were completely surprised to hear, having it actually said out loud must just be horrendous.
Not sure if its of any use - but seeing as they both seem to react in similar ways/no triggers etc - mine never actually had a nerve block before going ahead with the PENS.  When they saw the head shaking the decided to offer the PENS treatment and said there wasn't much point in doing the nerve block as they were confident that it was the nerve. I dont know much about the nerve block, but i wonder what surface area it actually covers as its quite a long nerve - if the block didn't quite cover the area thats causing the problem, could it actually make the symptoms worse? I dont know :s
Have you thought about contacting Veronica Roberts at Bristol who pioneered the PENS treatment and is one of the leading Headshaking researchers as a last resort - maybe get her view on whether she thinks it would be worth a shot?  I guess they dont know enough really about the long term effectiveness of the treatment as its so new. 
This truly is one of the most heartbreaking conditions that could happen to these poor horses, I literally cant even imagine how this must feel being told that - although inevitably it sounds like the majority of us in this situation face the same decision, except for a few lucky ones that manage to respond well enough to manage the condition. 
So sorry to hear this - I really feel for you   Is there any way you think that he could be retired to field as a companion - or is the headshaking too bad even in the field to be managed?
		
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Thanks, you're support means a lot as unless you've had a head shaker you can't possibly know how hard it is to see them in pain and how useless you feel when you're unable to help them.
My boy is quite a nervous horse and I feel he's been through enough in his short life so far, so putting him through the PENS therapy for not much improvement isn't something I want to do. If there was a bigger success rate it would be a different matter.
Unfortunately he's a 17hh 6yr old warmblood who has energy to burn and loves to wrestle his field friends. No one would want him as a companion as he's too boisterous and a poor doer, although he is a total gentleman to handle. If I had the money to buy him a bossy pony and keep them in my field then I would but I honestly don't think he'd be happy, especially if his symptoms carry on as they are now...
I just have to be brave and do what's right for him - it's not the first time I've had to do it, it probably won't be the last but it's certainly one of the hardest, I love the bones of him...


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## cascada27 (31 January 2017)

Oh yes that makes total sense, I see what your saying there, you wouldn't want him to be unhappy and not have a good quality of life if he wouldn't be happy retiring etc, wouldn't be fair. I know, watching them in pain and not being able to do anything is just the worse. So sad that he's developed it at such a young age! I think it comes down to the fact that you know your boy best and while it's probably one of the most heartbreaking and difficult decisions to make, you will know if it's the right and best thing for him  least you can take some comfort that your doing right by him. So sorry today didn't go as hoped


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## DabDab (2 February 2017)

This has been one of the most interesting and heartbreaking threads I have ever read on here. You poor things - what an horrible condition to try and help a horse through.

I have never had anything to do with a headshaker where it wasn't seasonal, but after reading this I really hope that more research may be done on it imminently.

Dazed'n'confused - I'm so sorry it doesn't look like a good outcome is possible for your boy.


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## teacups (2 February 2017)

DabDab said:



			This has been one of the most interesting and heartbreaking threads I have ever read on here. You poor things - what an horrible condition to try and help a horse through.

I have never had anything to do with a headshaker where it wasn't seasonal, but after reading this I really hope that more research may be done on it imminently.

Dazed'n'confused - I'm so sorry it doesn't look like a good outcome is possible for your boy.
		
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Exactly this. 

I had no idea headshaking could be as serious as this. Have been following  this thread after the OP asked about craniosacral therapists on another thread (did you ever find a local one?) and it just sounds awful, for both horse and owner.

Really sorry to hear that nothing has helped your boy, DnConfused. I had a quick look and google about headshaking and read that the human version is dubbed 'the suicide disease' because of the high numbers of people with the disease who commit suicide.


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## Dazed'n'confused (2 February 2017)

teacups said:



			Exactly this. 

I had no idea headshaking could be as serious as this. Have been following  this thread after the OP asked about craniosacral therapists on another thread (did you ever find a local one?) and it just sounds awful, for both horse and owner.

Really sorry to hear that nothing has helped your boy, DnConfused. I had a quick look and google about headshaking and read that the human version is dubbed 'the suicide disease' because of the high numbers of people with the disease who commit suicide.
		
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DabDab & Teacups thank you, it truly is heartbreaking. I also had no real concept of how bad head shaking can be, I just thought it was something that happened in summer and that could be helped by nose nets or antihistamines. I can honestly say that it's the most soul destroying disease as you bust a gut to try and help them but nothing seems to work.

I never found a specialist Craniosacral therapist but I did have him looked at by 3 different bodywork type people. Nothing of any significance came to light and whilst he enjoyed his treatments, no improvement was seen.

I suffer from migraines and when I look in his eyes (even on "good" days) he has the same look that I do when I'm in a lot of pain. I read about the high suicide rate in humans too - I can see why....
I wish I could help him, we could have had so much fun together but I have tried all I can and I have to be satisfied that he's known love, kindness and empathy with me which I'm more than sure he hasn't had before...


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## spotty_pony (2 February 2017)

I am so sorry Dazed n Confused to hear about your boy. Cant even begin to imagine how hard this must be. 

If it's worth one last chance I DO know a qualified Equine Cranio-Sacral Therapist. Have a Google search for Jean Whitebread. I think her website is Equine Reconnect or something like that. She is very good, I haven't used her myself but know people who have with results and I also know her personally as I used to work with her. 

Also, has your Vet checked for TMJ problems? I only ask because the more I read about this, the more I lose faith in the fact they actually know enough about this joint as apparently most don't really investigate in that area as they don't see any relevance to it. 

My Chiropractor came to see my boy on Monday and his atlas bone was out - which hadn't been noted by the Vets. She put this right and he didn't head shake or sneeze for the following two days - even without the nosenet! I thought she had cured him until this Morning when he started again.  But the fact he was so much better after the treatment is a big clue and I am going to investigate further about TMJ issues now as well as allergies.


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## Dazed'n'confused (3 February 2017)

spotty_pony said:



			I am so sorry Dazed n Confused to hear about your boy. Cant even begin to imagine how hard this must be. 

If it's worth one last chance I DO know a qualified Equine Cranio-Sacral Therapist. Have a Google search for Jean Whitebread. I think her website is Equine Reconnect or something like that. She is very good, I haven't used her myself but know people who have with results and I also know her personally as I used to work with her. 

Also, has your Vet checked for TMJ problems? I only ask because the more I read about this, the more I lose faith in the fact they actually know enough about this joint as apparently most don't really investigate in that area as they don't see any relevance to it. 

My Chiropractor came to see my boy on Monday and his atlas bone was out - which hadn't been noted by the Vets. She put this right and he didn't head shake or sneeze for the following two days - even without the nosenet! I thought she had cured him until this Morning when he started again.  But the fact he was so much better after the treatment is a big clue and I am going to investigate further about TMJ issues now as well as allergies.
		
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Thank you, yes his TMJ was investigated as I too had seen the success that some had had when this was put right - I even asked the vet on Tues to double check. 

I really hope you can get your boy right, it sounds hopeful if he was ok, even if it was just for a short time - maybe with more manipulation the time he's ok will start to get longer. 
I'll keep my fingers crossed for both of you - we need a success story for at least one of us, preferably two!!


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## chaps89 (3 February 2017)

I have read this post with interest but not commented until now as I have no experience of head shaking. However I wanted to say how sorry I am to hear that this is the outcome and wish you all the best, it sounds like it's been a horrible time.


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## Dazed'n'confused (3 February 2017)

chaps89 said:



			I have read this post with interest but not commented until now as I have no experience of head shaking. However I wanted to say how sorry I am to hear that this is the outcome and wish you all the best, it sounds like it's been a horrible time.
		
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Thank you, it's been so hard watching him in obvious distress knowing that there's nothing I can do or give him to alleviate it. I just hope that one day they'll know enough about it to find a cure


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## spotty_pony2 (3 February 2017)

Dazed n Confused - have you had your boy allergy tested just in case? Do you think it might be a last thing to consider?


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## Dazed'n'confused (4 February 2017)

spotty_pony2 said:



			Dazed n Confused - have you had your boy allergy tested just in case? Do you think it might be a last thing to consider?
		
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I've discussed this with both vets but they both felt that it wasn't something worth persuing. Their rationale was that even if a glaringly obvious allergy showed up it would be hard to medicate given that he didn't respond to any antihistamine or steroid drug trials. There is also no pattern to his good and bad days (I've written everything down daily for months & months to try and establish a trend weather wise and different pollen wise but nothing stands out unfortunately) - he's been on two different yards with very different surroundings but he showed no improvement.


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## cascada27 (10 February 2017)

Hello all, 

Just an quick update for the post on my boy.

We had our 3rd and final PENS treatment last Friday.

He headshook as usual for a few days after (which the vet said would be normal - sometimes after the 3rd treatment they can get worse for about a week before you see any positive changes) and now for the last 3 days i have seen no headshaking.  Albeit as i have previously mentioned im there 6.30 am and then 6.30pm so cant comment on the time im not there unfortunately. 

After the first treatment he was much worse
After the second treatment the headshaking went for about 7 days and then returned getting gradually worse until the 3rd treatment which was 3 weeks after the 2nd.

Just got to see how long it stays away for this time. 

The vet did say that how they react and the length of time that the headshaking subsides for after the 3rd PENS treatment is usually as good as it gets.  

So although there is a possibility of doing a 4th treatment, it the headshaking only subsides for say 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month etc after the 3rd treatment then it will most likely only subside for the same amount of time after the 4th. Although I did think as he reacted  negatively to the first one, but responded to the second one as some have done to the first one that perhaps hes almost like a treatment behind!? who knows...

Got rather upset during the treatment as i felt i had to ask the question 'how and when would you recommend that enough is enough and the suffering is too much to continue'  Literally hadn't left myself think about this up until that point as I cant bear to lose him - yet I know this is realistically something I may have to face  .

Fingers crossed (everything crossed!!) that this 3rd treatment has a longer lasting effect or reduces it in some way so that I can manage it so that he can be comfortable (gave up on the idea that he might recover enough to be ridden, but ultimately if he can mange as a companion with the occasional walk in hand round the village for a change of scenery without being in discomfort all the time then i will take that any day.

Discussed also the possibility of a drug trial is the PENS is unsuccessful although i'm not sure what specific trial it is -he said its incredibly expensive and again not sure if it will work - but we will try!


It just makes me so angry and sad that these poor animals have to go through this and there's nothing that can be done to help  I wish I could swap places with him and have it instead!

Even though its only been a few days and i know that it will come back,its been so nice just to be able to bring him in and give him a groom without the distressing headshaking - just praying it goes for months rather than weeks, probably wishful thinking rather than realistic expectations given how hes responded so far, but trying to keep positive!

Will keep this updated on how we get on.


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## Dazed'n'confused (10 February 2017)

Cascada, I was wondering how you were getting on! So pleased to hear that he has improved again, will keep all things crossed for you that it lasts months. I know what you mean about the 4th treatment - perhaps it may be necessary with him to get the full benefit from the PENS - it seems that there's no hard and fast pattern to the response so maybe yours needs another go...

Thank you for all the updates, it's really helped - when I went to the vets last week I felt I had a better understanding of what to expect if the PENS was something they had wanted to try, without your posts I would have been much less informed.

My wonderful boy will be put down tomorrow morning. My heart is broken but I am 100% sure that it's the right thing to do. He's had a nice week out in the field with more carrots than he's had in his life (his favourite) but his twitching etc has been very apparent and yesterday it was snowing finely but like icy needles and he couldn't cope, I had to rescue him as he was galloping round trying to scrape his head on the floor. I had to hold a towel round his nose/face so he didn't run me down trying to hide in my coat.... 
Tomorrow can't come too soon yet I never want it to come in equal measures...

Let's hope that one day in the future we'll look back and think "if only they'd known that when our boys were suffering" and this horrible condition is manageable for all or better still, that there's a cure....


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## cascada27 (10 February 2017)

Dazed'n'confused said:



			Cascada, I was wondering how you were getting on! So pleased to hear that he has improved again, will keep all things crossed for you that it lasts months. I know what you mean about the 4th treatment - perhaps it may be necessary with him to get the full benefit from the PENS - it seems that there's no hard and fast pattern to the response so maybe yours needs another go...

Thank you for all the updates, it's really helped - when I went to the vets last week I felt I had a better understanding of what to expect if the PENS was something they had wanted to try, without your posts I would have been much less informed.

My wonderful boy will be put down tomorrow morning. My heart is broken but I am 100% sure that it's the right thing to do. He's had a nice week out in the field with more carrots than he's had in his life (his favourite) but his twitching etc has been very apparent and yesterday it was snowing finely but like icy needles and he couldn't cope, I had to rescue him as he was galloping round trying to scrape his head on the floor. I had to hold a towel round his nose/face so he didn't run me down trying to hide in my coat.... 
Tomorrow can't come too soon yet I never want it to come in equal measures...

Let's hope that one day in the future we'll look back and think "if only they'd known that when our boys were suffering" and this horrible condition is manageable for all or better still, that there's a cure....
		
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Thank you - yes they did say that really the 4th PENS and onward is an area they just dont know and they cant really advise on anything so just have to see.

Ive found this forum really helpful as well, I wish that none of our lovely horses have to go through anything like this, but its nice to be able to discuss it in a place where (unfortunately) others know what we are going through. 

I just hope that all the cases as they continue to trial treatments may result in a more effective and long lasting treatment for this condition!

Oh, my heart goes out to you it really does  Such a horrible thing to have to go through, but you know your boy and you know that you are doing the right thing for him to let him finally be at peace.  You know that you have tried everything you could have, but at the same time when you can tell hes suffering there has to be a point where you decide that its no longer fair to keep putting him through different treatments etc.  You are doing the right thing 100% by the sounds of it for your boy, at least you can take some comfort from that.  

I will be thinking of you tomorrow morning


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## Dazed'n'confused (10 February 2017)

cascada27 said:



			Oh, my heart goes out to you it really does  Such a horrible thing to have to go through, but you know your boy and you know that you are doing the right thing for him to let him finally be at peace.  You know that you have tried everything you could have, but at the same time when you can tell hes suffering there has to be a point where you decide that its no longer fair to keep putting him through different treatments etc.  You are doing the right thing 100% by the sounds of it for your boy, at least you can take some comfort from that.  

I will be thinking of you tomorrow morning 

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Thank you, much appreciated


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## Clare85 (10 February 2017)

Just read through this thread with interest as I have just returned from Langford with our cob who had a headshaking workup with Veronica Roberts yesterday.

I've posted a thread about our experience so far.

Dazed'n'confused, I'm so so sorry to read that your boy is being pts tomorrow. I will be thinking of you. Headshaking really is the most frustrating, heartbreaking condition I have ever dealt with. Take care of yourself, you are making a brave decision with your boy's welfare at heart.


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## teacups (12 February 2017)

I posted yesterday morning to say I would be thinking of you (as would a few others on the forum, I reckon), DnC, but my post does not show up - how weird. Anyway, hope it went as well as it could - a shame the weather has been so horrible for him the last couple of days.

Cascada, thank you for posting your update. Really good to hear that the PENS is doing something so far, and will cross all fingers and toes for it to be long-term rather than temporary! Here's hoping.

Clara85, I read your post and would love to hear updates - fingers and toes also crossed for you.


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## Dazed'n'confused (12 February 2017)

teacups said:



			I posted yesterday morning to say I would be thinking of you (as would a few others on the forum, I reckon), DnC, but my post does not show up - how weird. Anyway, hope it went as well as it could - a shame the weather has been so horrible for him the last couple of days.

Cascada, thank you for posting your update. Really good to hear that the PENS is doing something so far, and will cross all fingers and toes for it to be long-term rather than temporary! Here's hoping.

Clara85, I read your post and would love to hear updates - fingers and toes also crossed for you.
		
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Thank you...
He had a few hours out and went with a tummy full of carrots (his favourite) & what feels like all of my heart  
I did feel relief though - he is pain free and I don't have to worry that he's suffering in silence.
This morning it's windy with sleety rain and I don't have to see him try to hide his face or keep popping back to make sure it hasn't got too much and he needs to be brought in...
I won't have to see his eyes half closed in pain and the back of my heels won't be bruised from him accidently treading on me as he presses his head on my back to hide from whatever is causing him to try to shut his nose..


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## spotty_pony2 (23 February 2017)

So sorry dazed'n'confused  at least you know he is no longer suffering. 

Quick update on my boy...

Second course of steroids did nothing, Vets reluctant to test for allergies still. He was fine being ridden as long as wearing nosenet and fine in stable but usually head shaking in the morning even with nose net on. Chiropractor came and put atlas bone back in line which seemed to make him feel better and there was no head shaking for two days. This quickly started again as before. 

Then the unthinkable happened - he has had a swollen lymph gland since last June (head shaking started end of October) had blood test to check for Strangles at time but it was't thank goodness. Vet said not to worry as it wasn't bothering him, it has never gone although it does get bigger and smaller. Anyway, it suddenly started bothering him and he didn't like it being touched - it felt warm too. Got the Vet and she came and stuck something in it and pus came seeping out - abscess! Could have been brewing since last summer! Vet took a swab and left us with instructions to clean and flush with diluted hibiscrub twice a day and a course of Norodine and Danilon. Head shaking symptoms seemed to lessen but did not go away. Lump seemed to get smaller, but when antibiotics ran out seemed to become painful again and warm and was still producing pus. 

Results from the swab came back on Tuesday. Apparently it is a type of bacteria called Actinomyces Denticolons which is resistant to Norodine and causes an infection which can affect any part of the head called Actinomycosis. The bacteria can enter through anything such as a small cut or eating something with the bacteria on it. He is now on a course of Doxycycline which I am struggling to get him to eat as he doesn't like the taste so had to syringe it in tonight much to his horror and still cleaning and flushing the abscess. Vet said she will come back to scrape it out if it still doesn't clear it up. He seems a lot happier and her have had no head shaking for two days. Still not daring to think it was the cause of the head shaking but hoping it might be. He is wearing nose net still as before and isn't being ridden at the moment but he seems a lot brighter in himself so fingers crossed!


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## Clare85 (23 February 2017)

Interesting reading spotty_pony2. I will keep my fingers crossed for you that you've found a cause of your boy's headshaking. Hope the abscess clears up soon x


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## Dazed'n'confused (23 February 2017)

Oh my god Spotty-pony, I really, really hope that's it!!! How unbelievable that it's been brewing for so long! 
Keep us updated, will keep everything crossed for you!


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## cascada27 (24 February 2017)

oh fingers crossed that it may have been the cause and that the head shaking stays away! its such a random condition as different things seem to trigger different horses and what helps with ones symptoms has no effect on another horse - so you never know!

So its been 3 weeks today since Joeys last PENS treatment. Sort of mixed results really - I definitely think that its better, but its by no means gone, however I think I am managing it as best as i can and he seems pretty happy in himself. The headshaking when it is there seems to be of a nodding rather than the violent jerking that i was constantly before.

The weather over the last few days with the wind and rain hasnt helped - he was headshaking badly in the rain/wind yesterday morning, however by the evening he wasn't doing it at all. hes been happy to stay in his stable over night the past few nights with no head shaking either morning or evening that i could see, whereas before he would stress in the stable and headshake. 

I have a feeling that he may just have bad days and better days going forward, but at the moment from what i can see the good days are more than the bad days, and if he does start headshaking I just give him a treat ball or hay and he stops (although this is more distraction rather than that the pain is gone i think). - i've not attempted to ride/lunge in any way at the moment as i'm paranoid if i do that i might make him worse again, but we shall he how he goes when the spring comes in.  

I think by the standards of the vets it would not be classed as a success, however from what it was before it seems to be much better on the whole.

Would consider taking him for a 4th treatment, but going to see how he goes over the next month or so and take it from there really. 

Will keep it updated as we go forward.


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## Dazed'n'confused (24 February 2017)

Cascada, the fact that he's much more comfortable on the whole is a success! He sounds a lot less stressed thankfully


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## cascada27 (24 February 2017)

Yeah its definitely better I think, i would class it as manageable for now.  I let him out into a different field yesterday and he was galloping round and round and bucking and rolling and was so lovely to see him bouncing around all over the place as I havent seen him like that in a while, he tend to just eat, as i think that helps with the discomfort. 

However then the bloody rain and wind turned on us and as there's no grass out there he was shaking so badly, but then as soon as i put him in his usual paddock with some hay he stopped shaking and was just eating.  And nothing this morning or last night.  

i think we just have to take it day by day and see what happens.  

In the past week ive made the decision to leave him now without a rug as hes pretty fat and that seems to be better for him.  Sometimes putting a rug on him can start off the headshaking and i have no idea why. So for now he can stay fat dirty and hairy if it helps the shaking!

It still makes me so sad when i go down and see him headshaking - just makes my heart sink.  But then equally its so lovely when hes not shaking and ive been able to bring him in and give him a brush and put him in his stable and its like hes back to normal. Just hoping these days continue to outnumber than bad ones.


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## Dazed'n'confused (24 February 2017)

It's so hard, I do feel for you... 
All you can do is take it a day at a time, you're doing the best you can for him...


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## emfen1305 (24 February 2017)

I have followed this thread from the beginning out of interest as my boy displays some symptoms of a headshaker but nothing as severe as what I have read so far. I clicked on this morning to keep updated and firstly, Dazednconfused and I am so sorry to hear about your boy, I was heartbroken reading that you had to have him pts, it's a crying shame that nothing more can be done for them given all of the advances in other fields! I do hope the fact that you know he is no longer in pain brings some comfort to you!

Cascada27 I hope you continue to see an improvement and that the good days start to outweigh the bad ones and Spottypony I hope your boy also continues to improve!

My boy started violently twitching when eating his tea around September 2015. It started off quite mild almost like a tick and then got to the point where he was hitting his head and kicking his bucket to the back of the stable almost out of frustration. I tried changing feeds, buckets etc and he was better if there was no bucket or if i fed him from waist height. He seemed to stop in winter and then it came back with vengeance last May when he cut all of his nose by scraping it up the wall. At this point i got the vet who suggested trialling him on Cavalesse which I think is typically a sweet itch medicine. Anyway this seemed to work and the twitching stopped. I took him off it in winter because i assumed it was a summer related but then it has since come back so I have put him back on the Cavalesse to see if this helps relieve it. 

I guess my question is whether it is worth getting it investigated? I wont have long left on the insurance to do anything with it as the vet started "investigating" last May and I wouldn't know where to start. He's just had a rather stressful stay at Leahurst to have a bone scan which showed hock arthritis so he was medicated and i am reluctant to send him away again as it caused him to colic. He only ever does it with his evening feed. Never with breakfast, or his haylage, carrots, grazing etc so I'm at a bit of loss and starting to think it's just a habit. I tried just giving him carrots in a bucket  and he still did it which leads me to believe for some reason he associates that specific feed with twitching his head! Has anyone heard of this before or does anyone have any tips on what I could do see if there is genuinely a problem or just a habit? I suppose the easy answer would be not to give him an evening feed but he absolutely adores his bucket and would be quite sad if i stopped. Plus i have a variety of supplements (sigh) that he needs to have.

Virtual biscuits for advice


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## cascada27 (24 February 2017)

From what i've been researched and experienced the headshaking can take different forms and be triggered by many different things.  

The headshaking we have which is the diagnosed trigeminal neuralgia headshaking is exactly like you described as almost like an violent involuntary tick - that's usually how i describe it to people. Its usually vertical as well rather than side to side. 

Is when he is eating the only time he does it? Might sounds a bit odd but have you tried just hand feeding his feed to him - does that make any difference?

With the trigeminal nerve headshaking its the sensitivity of the nerve which causes pain and triggers the violent movement of the headshake.  Usually when the are grazing/rubbing their head is distracts them from the pain that's caused by the nerve - mine doesnt headshake when he is grazing or eating but does in the field/stable/ridden/lunges when its bad.

Worth investigating if its come back and it causing you/your poor horse worry for sure

The symptoms sounds like a headshaker but if he is only doing it when he is eating his feed, i've never heard of a link between that and the trigeminal headshakers.

Saying that headshaking can be caused by lots of other things such as the allergies, or in deed behavioural - worth getting  checked by your vet though!

Your poor boy - sounds like hes had a bit of a stressful time being away! Fingers crossed its nothing like the trigeminal headshaking as that really is awful  and no 100% cure by a long way.  But that its something that easily fixed once diagnosed!

let us know how you get on and what you decide to do! Although it makes me so sad to hear another beautiful animal is suffering with the headshaking, its always interesting to hear what others try and symptoms/triggers.


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## emfen1305 (24 February 2017)

cascada27 said:



			From what i've been researched and experienced the headshaking can take different forms and be triggered by many different things.  

The headshaking we have which is the diagnosed trigeminal neuralgia headshaking is exactly like you described as almost like an violent involuntary tick - that's usually how i describe it to people. Its usually vertical as well rather than side to side. 

Is when he is eating the only time he does it? Might sounds a bit odd but have you tried just hand feeding his feed to him - does that make any difference?

With the trigeminal nerve headshaking its the sensitivity of the nerve which causes pain and triggers the violent movement of the headshake.  Usually when the are grazing/rubbing their head is distracts them from the pain that's caused by the nerve - mine doesnt headshake when he is grazing or eating but does in the field/stable/ridden/lunges when its bad.

Worth investigating if its come back and it causing you/your poor horse worry for sure

The symptoms sounds like a headshaker but if he is only doing it when he is eating his feed, i've never heard of a link between that and the trigeminal headshakers.

Saying that headshaking can be caused by lots of other things such as the allergies, or in deed behavioural - worth getting  checked by your vet though!

Your poor boy - sounds like hes had a bit of a stressful time being away! Fingers crossed its nothing like the trigeminal headshaking as that really is awful  and no 100% cure by a long way.  But that its something that easily fixed once diagnosed!

let us know how you get on and what you decide to do! Although it makes me so sad to hear another beautiful animal is suffering with the headshaking, its always interesting to hear what others try and symptoms/triggers.
		
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No I haven't tried hand feeding him before actually! Sometimes when it was really bad I would take the bucket away and hand feed so not too lose the supplements. He is on ready mash now which makes it a little bit harder but i could definitely try. I have taken videos so I look back at it almost looks like he's rushing to eat it, like he's afraid of it which would be akin to pain I guess. He doesn't do the head rubbing that others have described but when it is at it's worst he does rub his nose from side to side on the stable door. Despite having his haylage out of a haybar now, he has had it both in nets and off the floor before and never any twitching. He has also never done it when ridden or lunged though he can be quite unsettled taking contact (chomping bit etc but this could be due to a number of things).

I did mention to the vet this week when he came back to check his hocks. He said to try the Cavelesse for a month as it can take a bit of time to get into his system so I will do that to see if it helps. He said the cavalesse would only help if allergies, if it is the trigeminal nerve as you say then the cavalesse won't help that so hopefully i will have a better idea in a few weeks. He did have his head scanned while he was at Leahurst and found nothing abnormal so I know it isn't a bone issue (hopefully). The dentist is coming next weekend although he has had his teeth looked at 3 times by the vet now. 

He has regular physio but I'm wondering whether it is worth getting an osteopath to come and look at him? There is one that is highly recommended in our area so I don't know whether to ask him to come and give him the once over to just make sure it isn't anything making him uncomfortable (also to see if there are any causes for the chomping!)


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## Dazed'n'confused (24 February 2017)

Emfen, thank you, I miss him so much but I have to say that it's a huge relief not to have the constant worry - I had researched and tried as much as I could and it's only now that I realise how much of a toll it had taken on me. Seeing him in so much pain and being so helpless was horrendous.

I hope your boy is reacting as he does due to an allergy that the Cavalesse can help. I agree with hand feeding him if a bucket feed is what triggers his symptoms. 
At least you've already had his head scanned! 
I would definitely try the osteopath  - everything about head shaking is trial & error, you've nothing to lose & at least you know that that's another thing you've tried & ruled out (or it works)!! 
If he only does it when eating a hard feed I wonder if it's something in the food that he's allergic to....?
At least he only does it at tea time and shows no sign of it at any other time but it must be miserable for him poor lad!


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## emfen1305 (24 February 2017)

Dazed'n'confused said:



			Emfen, thank you, I miss him so much but I have to say that it's a huge relief not to have the constant worry - I had researched and tried as much as I could and it's only now that I realise how much of a toll it had taken on me. Seeing him in so much pain and being so helpless was horrendous.

I hope your boy is reacting as he does due to an allergy that the Cavalesse can help. I agree with hand feeding him if a bucket feed is what triggers his symptoms. 
At least you've already had his head scanned! 
I would definitely try the osteopath  - everything about head shaking is trial & error, you've nothing to lose & at least you know that that's another thing you've tried & ruled out (or it works)!! 
If he only does it when eating a hard feed I wonder if it's something in the food that he's allergic to....?
At least he only does it at tea time and shows no sign of it at any other time but it must be miserable for him poor lad!
		
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From reading your earlier posts it definitely sounds like you made the right choice for both of you in the end, I cant imagine what it must have been like for you, seeing Toby do it for less that 5 mins really upsets me!

The Cavalesse did seem to work last time so I am hoping it does this time so I can go down the blood test route and see, it is just very odd as he is totally normal then all of sudden his head will shoot up and thats it, the bucket ends up at the back of the stable food is being flicked everwhere. Sometimes he does it from the start and sometimes he can be most of the way through before he has an episode. I have tried lots of different feeds but the only consistent thing in the last 2 years has been the topspec lite balancer, maybe i could try taking that out for a week or so and see if it makes a difference. I think I will get the osteopath, as you said there is nothing to lose. It is such a shame for him as he loves his bucket and even licks his lips when he sees it coming (potentially anthropomorphising him a little here but he definitely does haha!)


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## Clare85 (24 February 2017)

emfen1305 - I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but I think it could be worth having a specialist dentist look at your boy. If he is only head shaking whilst eating then there could be some pain in his mouth somewhere.

Whilst we were at Langford with our pony earlier this month, Veronica Roberts showed us several videos of horses who headshake for various reasons. One of these was a young horse who would only do it whilst eating his hay. I can't remember his exact issue, but it was a severe dental problem that had been missed by the local vet.

I hope you find a cause for it. It's horrible to watch 

ETA - just read that you are having dental specialist out next week. Let us know how it goes.


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## spotty_pony2 (26 February 2017)

Thank you guys, I am hoping so too. Tonight is his first night without the nosenet on all night since about November! He has been symptom free for four days now and has had the nosenet off during the day quite a bit too so I'm holding my breath about tonight but fingers crossed. I've ridden him twice this week with the nosenet on and he is feeling very relaxed and pretty much how he used too feel. If all goes ok tonight, the next step is to try riding without the nosenet. 

emfen1305 - Have you had a chiropractor look at your horse? Could be a TMJ issue (which also causes hock problems)


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## Clare85 (27 February 2017)

spotty_pony2 said:



			Thank you guys, I am hoping so too. Tonight is his first night without the nosenet on all night since about November! He has been symptom free for four days now and has had the nosenet off during the day quite a bit too so I'm holding my breath about tonight but fingers crossed. I've ridden him twice this week with the nosenet on and he is feeling very relaxed and pretty much how he used too feel. If all goes ok tonight, the next step is to try riding without the nosenet. 

emfen1305 - Have you had a chiropractor look at your horse? Could be a TMJ issue (which also causes hock problems)
		
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Keeping everything crossed for you x


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## spotty_pony2 (13 March 2017)

Update - after three courses of antibiotics, the abscess has cleared up. I can ride him symptom free! But there is still some head shaking in the stable without the nose net - potentially caused by nerve damage or irritated mucous membranes. The next step is to get him out 24/7 hopefully in the next couple of weeks to see if this stops the head shaking. Could it be habitual now I am wondering, as he can be head shaking before I ride and then I get on and he is fine. :\


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## Dazed'n'confused (13 March 2017)

spotty_pony2 said:



			Update - after three courses of antibiotics, the abscess has cleared up. I can ride him symptom free! But there is still some head shaking in the stable without the nose net - potentially caused by nerve damage or irritated mucous membranes. The next step is to get him out 24/7 hopefully in the next couple of weeks to see if this stops the head shaking. Could it be habitual now I am wondering, as he can be head shaking before I ride and then I get on and he is fine. :\
		
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That's great news (mainly) - you must be relieved. Let's hope that when he's out 24/7 it breaks the habit... 
At least he is a lot happier than he was.


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## GTorque (5 February 2022)

Appreciate this is an old thread but a new problem for me. My boy who I’ve had less than a year is struggling with head shaking. He doesn’t do it it in the indoor school, maybe the odd twitch, but bad in the outdoor or hacking. He tries his best to concentrate and work through it but after ridden work, is really struggling, desperately rubbing and wanting to bury his nose, even slicing his face open twice to need stitches he can be that bad.

Have tried nose nets, hayfever tablets and supplements to no avail. He’s had everything checked, teeth, back etc. 

The vet has been out this week and scoped him, endoscopy and lameness work up. There were a couple of issues which showed up after flexion test but vet said that they are secondary to his head and current quality of life.

Vet wants to send him for CT scans and PENS but have discovered my insurance won’t cover it so need either some reassurance that there is some success from the treatment as I’m completely at a loss what to do for him😢


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