# wearing a point 2 jacket for hunting - does anyone



## woodlandswow (26 October 2011)

or shall i stick with my normal bp?
its just that last year i turned up with my normal bp and the hunt master turned his nosie up at me, my mum is insistent i wear it -and i feeel safer however  i have seen in adverts that some people wear p2 to hunt. i have one but i would be worrried about fallling off then not having any protectiion for the rest of the day!! any experiences? thanks


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## jsr (26 October 2011)

At our hunt alot of the younger lot wear them (I would but can't afford one!!) even the hunt masters daughter wears one. 

I've noticed this season the increase in BP's all round, and certainly NOT something our hunt members turn their noses up at.  One chap turned up for the opening meet with a flat cap on and he soon got told to dismount and find a hat!!!


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## Addicted to Hunting (26 October 2011)

Wear one if you have it, remeber it should be worn over your bp as well. There are plenty off people in our hunt who wear a bp, and who also wear a bp and airjacket or just airjacket, and not just the kids. Are sure that the master did turn up his nose at you bp, most prefer you to be out and safe, alltho woud prefer it it wasn't a bright colour worn over your jacket. There is some pictures on one off the threads in here off one of our secretaries wearing his air jacket and bp


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## Hunters (26 October 2011)

Twenty years ago when I was a master, they could have been considered a 'No No'  Personally I am not a fan of them and they are not a regular sight with the Heythrop.  However, a lot of hunts have younger members so perhaps they are becoming more acceptable.  

My opinion, is if you are below 25 years old - maybe ok - but over 25 years old, if you need to wear one - stick to your Riding Club.


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## BigRed (26 October 2011)

Hunters: what a dreadful post you have made.  Why on earth is it considered bad form to protect yourself by wearing a BP ?  Do you consider it bad form to wear a proper hat too ?

I truly hope you never have a bad accident out hunting.


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## VoR (26 October 2011)

I don't get this, I don't wear a BP hunting mainly because I'd be in it a long time and would find it uncomfortable (I think) but if someone, regardless of age, turns up in one I certainly wouldn't look down on them for it, they probably have more sense than me!

Really pomposity rules sometimes!

As for a P2, with a normal BP plus all the usual hunting attire you might get just a bit hot I would think, but if you can put up with it then  wear it.......just remember to unhook if you have to jump off for a gate!!!


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## 3Beasties (26 October 2011)

Hunters I have to say that is a rather unfair statement to make, even the very BEST riders fall of at times. It should not be frowned upon for people to want to protect themselves.


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## cptrayes (26 October 2011)

Hunters said:



			Twenty years ago when I was a master, they could have been considered a 'No No'  Personally I am not a fan of them and they are not a regular sight with the Heythrop.  However, a lot of hunts have younger members so perhaps they are becoming more acceptable.  

My opinion, is if you are below 25 years old - maybe ok - but over 25 years old, if you need to wear one - stick to your Riding Club.
		
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Sorry? I am over 50. I am not stupid enough to think that other people's ridiculous ideas of "good form" should affect my personal safety.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NT0fwAL6x3I/TqgvYrwHFtI/AAAAAAAAAxU/Dl96zmLxBSk/s1600/radar+hedge.jpg



ps I am guessing you still wear a Patey with no chin strap, which really speaks for itself !


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## Addicted to Hunting (26 October 2011)

Hunters I think that is a very unfair post!! Anybody can wear a bp regardless off age, I suppose you think everyone should be in a patey as well?? Yes tbh I think there is nothing smarter than a nice fitting jacket no bp and a patey, but I'm not going to judge anyone for choosing to be safe. If it makes you feel safer than wear them, have allready an injury and to keep riding you need to protect yourself as much as possible. Alot off bps can be worn under jackets and aren't even noticable, infact the other day I only relised that one off our older subsrcibers wears bp beacuse I happened to see them putting their jacket on. At the moment I'm wearing a t-shirt with in built shoulder protection under my jacket, it's barely noticable but due to having my collar bone operated on in August and it now having no end I feel this is rather sensiable, but however under your rules in feb when I'm 26 I suppose if I want to keep wearing them I'd better only stick to RC??? Sorry that this post is rather long and a bit off a rant but that really made me annoyed!!!!!


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## Hunters (26 October 2011)

Why is it, on here, people can't take the truth?  yes I do wear a Patey, oh and quite often a top hat (shock)  

My preference is that, just that..  I don't jump anything I do not think my mount will carry me safely over & no I rarely fall.  I produce horses to the highest standard and am known as a 'nagsman'.  We are a rare breed these days and with all the 'health and safety' no doubt we will become rarer to the extent that no one will be riding soon!

I think that those in back protectors aged over 25 look like numpties & that's my opinion (oh and many others) so like it or lump it!


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## MissTyc (26 October 2011)

At my hunt BPs are obligatory for under 21s and becoming more and more common for the over 21s as well. There are a few 2-point jackets out in the field as well - I have no issue with it AT ALL. I don't wear mine unless it's a big hedge day simply because I sweat up in a not good way, but have to admit lately I have been thinking I SHOULD wear it more. I have seen nasty no-fault accidents and  I'm not of an age where I bounce and get back on any more! I am considering buying a slightly bigger jacket to wear it underneath, as a lot of ladies at my hunt are doing ... yes, this is my little vanity though god knows why I'd rather look fatter than BP'd!


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## MissTyc (26 October 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Sorry? I am over 50. I am not stupid enough to think that other people's ridiculous ideas of "good form" should affect my personal safety.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NT0fwAL6x3I/TqgvYrwHFtI/AAAAAAAAAxU/Dl96zmLxBSk/s1600/radar+hedge.jpg



ps I am guessing you still wear a Patey with no chin strap, which really speaks for itself !
		
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Brilliant photo and I would never jump a hedge of that size without body protection any more. My husband would never forgive me if something happened!


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## Gucci_b (26 October 2011)

Hunters said:



			Twenty years ago when I was a master, they could have been considered a 'No No'  Personally I am not a fan of them and they are not a regular sight with the Heythrop.  However, a lot of hunts have younger members so perhaps they are becoming more acceptable.  

My opinion, is if you are below 25 years old - maybe ok - but over 25 years old, if you need to wear one - stick to your Riding Club.
		
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what a load of crap " but over 25 years old, if you need to wear one - stick to your riding club"..... who's to say who fall's from their horse...  a lady (whipper in) from a hunt I know has ended her days in a wheel chair, and a b.p would have helped, had she worn one... as long as the hunt gets there field money, does it really matter who wears a b.p.         remind me not to hunt out with yr hunt.


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## LizzieJ (26 October 2011)

Be a bugger opening gates!  I have never worn a bp hunting, I do however think it's sensible - I'm just not sensible


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## cptrayes (26 October 2011)

Hunters said:



			Why is it, on here, people can't take the truth?  yes I do wear a Patey, oh and quite often a top hat (shock)  

My preference is that, just that..  I don't jump anything I do not think my mount will carry me safely over & no I rarely fall.  I produce horses to the highest standard and am known as a 'nagsman'.  We are a rare breed these days and with all the 'health and safety' no doubt we will become rarer to the extent that no one will be riding soon!

I think that those in back protectors aged over 25 look like numpties & that's my opinion (oh and many others) so like it or lump it!
		
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I don't care what you think about people who wear safety gear out hunting, so I'll lump it, ta  I would strongly defend anyone's right to wear unsafe hats as a personal choice, but I do hope that I don't have to pay any of my taxes to repair your foolish head when your hat comes off because you think you look cool in a hat with no chinstrap.


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## Tinkerbee (26 October 2011)

I wouldn't. For one thing I wouldn't want the possibility of it spooking other horses if it went off. Also fair enough for eventing when if you fall off you have to retire, but what if you take a silly tumble, far too much faffing to get back on IMO.

Also not convinced by the science/safety aspect but that is a whole other thread.


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## JenHunt (26 October 2011)

Hunters said:



			My opinion, is if you are below 25 years old - maybe ok - but over 25 years old, if you need to wear one - stick to your Riding Club.
		
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why? Are you any less likely to fall off after your 25th Birthday?

If Mary King (HSBC Classics Series Winner) can fall off doing what she has made a career of, why can't those of us who only do it for fun fall off? And why shouldn't the individual choose to protect themselves?!


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## PortwayPaddy (26 October 2011)

There have been plenty of Point 2 jackets and BPs out so far this season.

Our hunt dress code actually states that BPs are permitted as long as they are unobtrusive i.e not in XC colours.

What is wrong with wanting to protect oneself out hunting in the same manner as any other equestrian activity. As long as the rest of the dress code is followed.

BD has allowed BPs for ages and have now brought in the requirement for hats to have harnesses fitted when competing below Advanced.

I came a cropper at the weekend, with a BP and I'm still black and blue on parts that where covered by the BP.

Incidently, I have seen more skull caps and hats with harnesses so far this season than ever before and that is on adults not minors.

I reckon Ebay will be awash with Beaglers and Patey hats.

Paddy


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## Bernster (26 October 2011)

Agree with eveyone on here who says it's entirely up to the rider whether to wear a BP and I don't think you should give a monkey's what other people think about you.  Better safe than sorry and all that.

I wear a BP for jumping days.  I had a nasty fall the other day due to the horse stumbling on landing which can happen to anyone.

A couple of people on our hunt have started wearing the P2 although they need to be worn with BPs and are a one shot jacket (assuming you don't take a spare cannister!!) so bulky and hot, unless you get the new type which has an in-built BP.


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## cptrayes (26 October 2011)

Air jackets do not "need" to be worn with a body protector. They will only provide the fullest possible protection if they ARE worn with a body protector, but from my experience they will still protect your neck, back and ribs without a standard body protector. I  could not hunt for hours in a close fitting body protector, it would be too uncomfortable. I wear a P2 without one. The standard body protector is necessary if the P2 does not go off (ie if your horse falls and you stay with it), but in a high speed hunting fall that's pretty unlikely. BE rules may  require both to be worn but that does not mean that the air jacket is of no use on its own.


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## Suziq77 (26 October 2011)

Our hunt secretary puts it perfectly when people ask - she says "many people choose not to wear them but if you feel safer wearing one then that will be fine and everyone will respect your choice".


ps - in my experience no one that is a genuine old fashioned "nagsman" would EVER tell other people that's how they think of themselves!


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## Hunters (26 October 2011)

I thought the point of these forums was to express an opinion...  Didn't take long for someone to get personal...

Why do you come one here if you can't take other people's opinions?  

Wear what you like out hunting, doesn't bother me what you wear.  I just think that all those that wear all the protective gear look like they should still be in the riding school. But that's my opinion and I suspect I don't stand alone.


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## Addicted to Hunting (26 October 2011)

Hunters I would say that you were fairly personal by saying that anyone who wears one who is over 25 looks like a numpty, and should still be in the riding school or stick to RC.
Agree that we all have our own opnion, I've allready stated whatvi think looks smarter, but if people off ANY age choose to be safe than good on them.
Any also why choose 25 as the age, I know alot of people who you wouldn't know if under/over 25.  I'm sure there was a post a while ago on here about how when Pateys etc first came out they weren't considered correct, how things change.


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## Bernster (26 October 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Air jackets do not "need" to be worn with a body protector. They will only provide the fullest possible protection if they ARE worn with a body protector, but from my experience they will still protect your neck, back and ribs without a standard body protector. I  could not hunt for hours in a close fitting body protector, it would be too uncomfortable. I wear a P2 without one. The standard body protector is necessary if the P2 does not go off (ie if your horse falls and you stay with it), but in a high speed hunting fall that's pretty unlikely. BE rules may  require both to be worn but that does not mean that the air jacket is of no use on its own.
		
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Oop, I stand corrected   Silly as I did know that but was getting meself confused with BE standards and hunting (tut tut).  Certainly wasn't doing down the P2 - have a friend who swears by hers and wears without a separate BP.


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## meandmyself (26 October 2011)

woodlandswow said:



or shall i stick with my normal bp?
its just that last year i turned up with my normal bp and the hunt master turned his nosie up at me, my mum is insistent i wear it -and i feeel safer however  i have seen in adverts that some people wear p2 to hunt. i have one but i would be worrried about fallling off then not having any protectiion for the rest of the day!! any experiences? thanks
		
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They should be worn over a normal body protector. I personally feel that they're a bit of a gimick, and really aren't that well researched. I don't think I'd wear one out hunting- what happens if you need to dismount and forget to unhook it? 




Hunters said:



			Twenty years ago when I was a master, they could have been considered a 'No No'  Personally I am not a fan of them and they are not a regular sight with the Heythrop.  However, a lot of hunts have younger members so perhaps they are becoming more acceptable.  

My opinion, is if you are below 25 years old - maybe ok - but over 25 years old, if you need to wear one - stick to your Riding Club.
		
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Really idiotic thing to say. There's nothing wrong with being safe. I'd rather wear a body protector than be laid up due to a preventable injury!




Hunters said:



			Why is it, on here, people can't take the truth?  yes I do wear a Patey, oh and quite often a top hat (shock)  

My preference is that, just that..  I don't jump anything I do not think my mount will carry me safely over & no I rarely fall.  I produce horses to the highest standard and am known as a 'nagsman'.  We are a rare breed these days and with all the 'health and safety' no doubt we will become rarer to the extent that no one will be riding soon!

I think that those in back protectors aged over 25 look like numpties & that's my opinion (oh and many others) so like it or lump it!
		
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A close friend of mine is a very good rider/horsewoman. Her horse dropped dead over a jump and almost landed on her. She walked away without a scratch because she was wearing protective equipment. 

Bet you're the type who doesn't wear a seatbelt in the car, either. I think it's incredibly selfish not to wear safety equipment when taking part in a high risk activity. Someone has to scrape you up off the floor. Someone has to take care of you after you're put back together. It's not just about you- it's about your family, friends and the people around you too.


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## georgiaziggy (27 October 2011)

I wear one (when I remember it), not on a hot day though, but seeing as its usually cold in the hunting season I dont get too hot and I even find it keeps me snug when its freezing! I have a racesafe one, and I can hardly tell im wearing in, cant stand any other body protector than these, it fits to me perfectly and is shaped to my body, and it looks smart! I could see how you would be fround upon if wearing a big bulky pink bp!


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## MilosDad (27 October 2011)

Yes I wear a Point Two while hunting. Its better after opening meet as it is less obvious against a black jacket but better a safe numpty than a broken fashion icon.
I am too expensive a commodity to risk sustaining avoidable damage (I'm prepared to accept the unpredictable risks) and whilst Hunters is entitled to his view I place a rather higher value on my wellbeing than he seems to.
Its better to look stupid than be stupid


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## MilosDad (27 October 2011)

As an addendum I support Hunter in expressing his opinion and whilst at complete variance with my own (professional as a trauma specialist who events hunts and covers 2 of our biggest 4* events as a medic) he is still as entitled to express it as anyone


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## cptrayes (27 October 2011)

meandmyself said:



			They should be worn over a normal body protector.
		
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I'm fed up with people saying this on every thread where an air jacket is mentioned.

When they were first marketed they were full waistcoats which were NOT worn over a normal body protector. It was the BE ruling that made it "normal" to wear them with a standard BP, which only happened once they realised that eventing was their easiest market to sell into, given the price. 

There is no doubt that the best possible protection is if they are worn with a normal one but that DOES NOT mean that they are not highly protective in their own right. For me, for hunting and normal riding, the additional protection offered by wearing a bulky, constrictive and HOT body protector is not worth the discomfort.



meandmyself said:



			What happens if you need to dismount and forget to unhook it?
		
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I have done this three times so far, from a 17 hand horse. I am 5ft 8. The bag did not go off, and is meant not to go off, as long as you are VERY close to the horse and tall enough. Luckily for me he did not move away. The whole field is waiting for the day I make the same mistake and don't get away with it, and the answer of course is that you give everyone a GREAT laugh and cost yourself £17.50!


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## cptrayes (27 October 2011)

Hunters said:



			I thought the point of these forums was to express an opinion...  Didn't take long for someone to get personal...

Why do you come one here if you can't take other people's opinions?  

Wear what you like out hunting, doesn't bother me what you wear.  I just think that all those that wear all the protective gear look like they should still be in the riding school. But that's my opinion and I suspect I don't stand alone.
		
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The thing is Hunters. I agree with you. I think I look like a complete dork in my P2 and my bulky crash hat with three point chinstrap and a stretchy velvet cover. I would look, being the height and width I am, classy and elegant in a Patey and a £500 tailor made jacket and I would love to look that way. But I wouldn't love to look that way so much that I am prepared to take unnecessary risks with my future health and possibly my life. That's my opinion and I know I don't stand alone.

We can all take your opinion. No-one has told you that you should not have given your opinion. All we have done is give OUR opinions that your opinion is a bit daft. 



Hunters said:



			Why do you come one here if you can't take other people's opinions?
		
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## PorkChop (27 October 2011)

I know people that wear Point Two's out hunting, in black, as said for the best protection it should be worn over a BP.


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## Bernster (27 October 2011)

We can all take your opinion. No-one has told you that you should not have given your opinion. All we have done is give OUR opinions that your opinion is a bit daft.[/QUOTE]

Ah, this forum never ceases to make me smile   Much better fun than working !


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## superwibble (27 October 2011)

After Fracturing my neck I always wear my point 2 hunting (not always over a bp either as my bp is really uncomfortable)  I must have been lucky as ever since I have worn it (8 weeks to the day of hurting my neck) I have only had positive comments or questions about it.  I have sewn my blue hunt coat's buttons on with elastic so I can wear it underneath.  I like looking smart but I cannot afford to be off work becuase I was feeling a bit vain.  Equally I respect the right of those who dont wear anything.  I love being turned out correctly but not at any cost.

I am probably jinxing myself but not once in 3 years of ownership have I forgotten to unclip, its like an automatic action, I had a rein snap on me and whilst trying to slow down with one rein, I unclipped and jumped off without thinking about it.  It takes seconds and despite being on a 17hh am often jumping off to pick up others dropped gloves etc as I can get on from the ground okay.

I have yet to hunt side saddle although I have ahow jumped ss but dont wear any bp for that. I do wear a bowler in the show ring but a normal riding hat at all other times


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## jsr (27 October 2011)

Even if I wore an expensive fitted jacket with a Patey tilted on my head I'd still look like a red faced slightly overweight middle aged woman on her bouncing hairy coblet and not the beautifully slim demure and striking woman on her calm shiney steed that I'd so like to be, so I might as well squash all the wobbly bits in a BP and tuck in the double chin and mad frizzy hair into a secure hat and be safe while unelegant and unattractive.

Couldn't really care less what 'men' like Hunter think, I'm more bothered than at the end of a FUN day out I go home in one piece.  So glad I hunt with people who are there to enjoy the day and not comment or sneer.


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## NinjaPony (27 October 2011)

Hunters said:



			Why is it, on here, people can't take the truth?  yes I do wear a Patey, oh and quite often a top hat (shock)  

My preference is that, just that..  I don't jump anything I do not think my mount will carry me safely over & no I rarely fall.  I produce horses to the highest standard and am known as a 'nagsman'.  We are a rare breed these days and with all the 'health and safety' no doubt we will become rarer to the extent that no one will be riding soon!

I think that those in back protectors aged over 25 look like numpties & that's my opinion (oh and many others) so like it or lump it!
		
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You are entitled to your opinion, however I think scoffing at other people with more common sense than you is stupid. If your hunt is the kind of hunt to laugh at people taking their safety seriously, then it's not surprising some people feel nervous about joining a hunt in dear of snobbyness and sneering.
Even the best horseman can fall.


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## RunToEarth (27 October 2011)

Wear whatever safety measures you feel you need to, as long as you and horse look smart, there should be no issues. We all have different opinions, I don't say anything about BPs being silly, and I don't expect anyone to jump on me for having a patey on.


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## VOM (27 October 2011)

Hunters said:



			Why is it, on here, people can't take the truth?  yes I do wear a Patey, oh and quite often a top hat (shock)  

My preference is that, just that..  I don't jump anything I do not think my mount will carry me safely over & no I rarely fall.  I produce horses to the highest standard and am known as a 'nagsman'.  We are a rare breed these days and with all the 'health and safety' no doubt we will become rarer to the extent that no one will be riding soon!

I think that those in back protectors aged over 25 look like numpties & that's my opinion (oh and many others) so like it or lump it!
		
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Fair play to Hunters for sticking with his own opinion. Remember everyone is entitled to one. 

Personally I couldn't care less if someone wears a body protector so long as they have made an effort to look smart everywhere else.


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## meesha (27 October 2011)

jsr - you made me laugh, priceless (I know exactly what you mean) ..... I havent thought about wearing my bp hunting but I would definately consider it - have seen many worn the few times I have been and from a distance you cant even tell.  The first time I was out there were 2 fallers and have spoken to many since (off back of rearing horse seems a favorite)


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## Hunters (27 October 2011)

VOM I'm with you - I couldn't really care less what people wear out hunting.  I hunt in a patey or top hat and that's my choice!

My opinion is my opinion.  I like to be turned out 'correctly' for hunting and for old fashioned hunting 'protocol' to be adhered to.  A lot of today's hunting lot wouldn't even know correct protocol.

I enjoy the buzz and adrenaline a fast pack like the Heythrop give me and yes I do wear a seatbelt in the car (although quite what that has got to do with hunting..?)

I rode a 'chopper' bike when I was a child and survived that too.  I could be killed by a bus (although not that likely in the Cotswolds) tomorrow.  I have 'produced' and judged at the highest level and I prefer my ways be they right or wrong.

What does annoy me is the 'personal attacks' on my opinions, if you can't take debate then 'b@g off.


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## Hunters (27 October 2011)

Run To Earth - You look very smart and correctly dressed (in my opinion) - although your poppy is on the wrong side for a lady.  Left handside for a lady - right for a man.  But then what do I know apparently my opinions are daft....  Long live the dying breed of correct protocol!!


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## Fools Motto (27 October 2011)

To answer the question, personally I wouldn't wear a P2. In fact. I've been out hunting a few times (but not a regular, far from it) and it's never even occurred to me to wear any form of BP. I am not totally against it, but I never did before, so I guess old habits die hard and I won't now.
I can imagin a P2 out hunting, if activated, to be a pain to sort out before you get going again?? By then, the rest if the field has buggered off some 10 miles away and you find yourself snookered anyway! Now THAT would annoy me.
I do wear the right head gear, and like to think I know my abilities regarding the type of fences I can or can't negotiate thus limiting a possible tumble. Don't get  me wrong, I have taken a few tumbles out hunting and actually grateful I didn't have a bp on, I can't flex well in one of them to remount!


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## emmab13 (27 October 2011)

I wear a Patey, and that's it. I accept that my vanity will make me look very stupid if I fall off and hurt myself. I hunt dealing horses 3 times a week that I'm lucky to have sat on once before they go out, and although I'm not the technically the greatest of riders over a course of showjumps, out hunting I'm in my element.
I actually DON'T CARE what anyone else wears. Come out in one of those Zorbing bubbles if you want, if you're friendly, happy to be out, and don't mind when one of my 4 year olds starts doing some mad leaping near you, crack on.
After all, in times like these, the more the merrier.


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## VoR (28 October 2011)

Not being one for all this Health & Safety, nanny-state nonsense we get nowadays, surely the answer to all this is;

We should all take responsibility for our own safety and if we choose to wear or not wear BP's, P2's, chin straps, etc, etc, then we do so in the knowledge that we are putting ourselves at some risk, IF however, the person next to us in the field is wearing protective gear, regardless of their age, then we shouldn't look down on them or sneer, we should respect that they have considered their safety and are doing something about it.

To be so 'above-ones-self' to believe anyone can sit on any horse and be immune from falling, whether we make a mistake or the horse does or just plain bad luck is preposterous surely!


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## becca1305 (28 October 2011)

I dont have any issues with anyone wearing a BP out hunting & would probably do it on a youngster at least for the first time out myself  i would NOT however wear a point2 as i would imagine them to be more of a danger than a saviour on the hunt field ; imagine if the worst should happen and you fell off over a hedge the best thing would be to tuck and roll if you could to avoid being landed on by horses following. I cant see how this would be possible in an inflated air jacket myself. I see the benefit of them in eventing etc my only issue is with not being able to get out of the way quickly from following horses!

Ps. I think it is ridiculous to turn your nose up at someone wearing a BP. I dont discriminate against anyone just wearing a chinless hat strap its their choice, similarily its their choice to wear a BP. Everyone deems them 'acceptable' for children to wear so why not adults? They may well be protecting themselves as well as possible because they have children and want to take as fewer 'risks' as possible for their sake, or simply dont want the ouch factor! Or alternatively gives them more confidence as they dont feel 'naked' I would imagine to some not wearing a BP would feel the same naked nervousness that I would feel if I didnt have a hat/chinstrap on & went hunting  each to their own. 

 so to answer your question OP i would stick to your BP for safety reasons IMO. If you are worried about 'the look' then get a more fitted BP eg racesafe and wear it underneath


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## natalia (28 October 2011)

A lesson to be learnt- I was out cubbing (in my Patey) on an unknown horse. I hit a tree over a fence, the hat flew off and I broke my cheekbone. I have just come out of hospital having had it plated and have a huge hamster like face and very sore. I have now invested in a HS1 hat with trendy velvet cover which won't fly off, and a P2 for big hedge days. Days before the cheekbone, my horse had an bad accident in a big hedge, he misjudged the width and put down too early, sending us both flying. Had I a P2 on I wouldn't have been half as sore as I was. I have no problem with people wearing any sort of safety gear out hunting, this has taught me that at I really can't afford to lose time out of my work and its been a bit of a pain to say the least. Any thing that helps isn't a bad thing!


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## woodlandswow (28 October 2011)

ok here goes 

Hunters: i can easily accept your opinion; after all hunting is a very traditional occasion,- as is wearing a nice patey/top hat and smart jacket.
i will hopefully be eventing next year to a standard of wearing either a top hat or a patey (fingers crossed!) and i understand they are not the safest of protection, however tradition is tradition. 

However; i also am very concious of is horses are horsees.. my boy (who i ride bearback around the paddock at home) is like a lethal wepon out hunting; (i have tried! - he is young ) and if i can have the best protection possible, i will wear it - (im 18)
 i will never forget the day i walked downstairs one morning and my parents said despite being at BE90 level, safety is important (you only have one neck) (it didnt help my mum worked on a spinal unit) so out we popped to get an air jacket (as you do- you cant put a price on safety and if protection is being offered i think go for it) (obviously we dont all have generous parents!)
who knows if the horse will have a heart attack underneath you, if it will trip over an unseen peice of wire, or if the horse infront does the unthinkable.. however well trained the horse is you cannot prepare them for that

so, back to the origional post 

i will go out in my BP and take my P2, after 1 meet i will see if i will brave it  - that is with my hunt
my hunt however do not do much jumping, 
i am due to go out with my friend who likes.... big hedge.... big hedge..... big hedge.... big hedge...
I will definatly take it then - thaanks to some of you who have told me people do go with them 

Last point   - i cant remember who first pointed this out, but as they said (sorry!) it was only BE who made it cumpolsary to jump with a BP underneath. my friend reguarly hacks out (expensive if it blows, yes!) wearing just a point two.. and that was basically what i was asking 
thanks for all the help and veiws!


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## lauraandjack (28 October 2011)

I hunt in a BP under my jacket.  Does look a bit bulky but the majority of folks don't notice unless it comes up in conversation, and then i get "oh, do you hunt in a BP?"

My body, my choice.

I work full time in a job which requires a fair degree of physical capability.  I live alone, a long distance from my family, in a village not quite in the middle of nowhere.  My horse is on DIY livery 7 miles away.  Therefore, if I crock myself, I will be very reliant on the goodwill of friends to look after my horse and dog, do my shopping, take me places etc.  As I choose to partake in a potentially dangerous sport, I feel that I should do the best I can to make it as safe as possible, which for me is a skull cap and BP for hunting.

Hunters, you are of course entitled to your opinion.  But please don't look down on those of us who make different choices to you!  I'm over 25 and certainly not a novice rider, and I've no intention of "going back to RC."  Tradition of course has it's place, but so does technology and the 2 are definitely not mutually exclusive!

As long as people are smartly turned out, I don't see that it matters whether their hat has a chin strap or they wear a BP.  In all honesty I think overly traditional attitudes only serve to contribute to the general public's negative image of hunting being the sport of toffs and people with too much time on their hands.


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## Ella19 (28 October 2011)

Well I will be "one of the numpties" out in a bp this year and a kan with big shoulder pass at that, over my jacket. 

I had a very bad accident in April, its left me with a clear cut choice, I ride with a body protector at all times now ( never worn one before) or I don't ride at all. I have been told in no uncertain terms that due to the nature of my injuries should I fall and break that collar none again the plate wi shift straight through my main artery and kill me. Now some will say I shouldn't ride but I too am of the thought of "I could be hut by a bus", however I will do everything I can to protect myself whilst riding.

Hunter should I be penalised and destined to a life of hacking and dressage because I have to wear a bp?


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## Darkly_Dreaming_Dex (28 October 2011)

OH proudly wears his BP & P2 and he is the hunt secretary 
link to pic on our hunt home page- he is on the grey in the middle of the pic:

http://kimblewickhunt.co.uk/

he broke his back in 2009 and is only riding, even walking due to experimental but ultimately sucessful surgery. The will to walk/ride/hunt again was what kept him going so whats the problem? since he has started wearing his, so many other people have also felt the confidence to wear theirs and anything that makes you safer cant be a bad thing.

FWIW 2 weeks ago i "lost" my days hunting as i was sat with a lady whose horse had come down on the road and she was near enough knocked out by the impact aswell as lower back/hip pain. I spent over an hour keeping her company/warm/upbeat waiting for the air ambulance to arrive. If she hadnt been wearing her HS1 (which had a nasty crack in it) she might not have "got away" with a nasty concussion..

personal choice has to be the way forwards- as long as it is discreet as i dont think anyone wants to see hunting pink refering to bright pink BP!


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2011)

It's really down to personal choice I have recently had the should you wear a 2point discussion with my husband I would rather give up than wear a bp all day and decided that I get off and on too much for gates (small horse easy to get on) a disaster would defiantly occur if I wore a 2 point might be ok for drag hunting but for our country in the hills I would be inflating all the time!! I have however ditched the Patey in favour of a velvet hat with a  harness OH asked me too and really could not think of a good reason to say not too except vanity.


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## cptrayes (31 October 2011)

I agree with you about the gates, Goldenstar but hills are no problem. We regularly ford rivers with almost verticle 15 ft banks to scramble up and down. Also agree that drag hunting is probably easier because you will get a check where you can wait for the  jacket to go down if you need to, or if you get left behind it gives you time to catch up. 

Congrats on overcoming the vanity with the hat, it was my OH that made me wear the jacket!


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2011)

I expressed my self badly the hills are not problem I just mean it's not country you are crossing very quickly jumping hedges you are going though gates not are noy used much and you are on and off all the time.
still miss the patey though.


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## RunToEarth (1 November 2011)

Hunters said:



			Run To Earth - You look very smart and correctly dressed (in my opinion) - although your poppy is on the wrong side for a lady.  Left handside for a lady - right for a man.  But then what do I know apparently my opinions are daft....  Long live the dying breed of correct protocol!!
		
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really? This does interest me actually, as it is this time of year again. I have just googled and BBC informs me it is an ongoing debate. I was always taught men wear them on the left, ladies on the right. My OH believes everyone wears them on the left, over the heart, where medals are worn. I believe some think only the Royal family should correctly wear them on the right. I am coming round to OHs way of thinking.


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## posie_honey (1 November 2011)

tbh i love tradition - and i cared about it a lot when i was a hunt hirling nanny and wore very correct dress - no i did not think about safety - yes i now suffer back pain and hip pain every day from falls that were sometimes errors - sometimes simply unfortunate

now days i nod towards tradition - but have swapped to a jockey skull cap etc - yes it does not look as smart - do i care? no - i'd rather be safe and couldnt give a fig what anyone else thinks


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## Hunters (1 November 2011)

I have moved within royal circles at the highest level.  Trust me, the BBC do not know everything.  Etiquette donates 'ladies on the left - gentlemen on the right (for poppies at hunts)


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## MilosDad (1 November 2011)

Well thats good to know.  At least I shall now have my poppy on the correct side, Id have worn it on the left where my medals go at formal dos!


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## Scoutie (1 November 2011)

I was that lady that Darkly Dreaming Dex was helping (thank you again!), and as she pointed out my accident happened when my horse fell on a road, not going over a jump.  Both my horse and I were very lucky to escape serious injury; apparently she also managed to escape capture for 3.5 miles.  

I luckily cannot remember much about the accident (nor the subsequent helicopter and ambulance ride) but if the bruises on my back had happened to my head I would not be typing this now.  I chose not to wear a BP but I do always wear the highest safety I can on my head  (my hat was replaced before I rode again).  It is a personnel choice, only you can evaluate what risks you are prepared to take and no one should pass comment on your decision.


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## Goldenstar (2 November 2011)

hunters Thanks for that about the poppies you learn something everyday!


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## Herne (3 November 2011)

I can't be bothered to type this all out again...



Herne said:



			If you want to wear your body protector, then wear it - and don't worry about people who might look down their noses at you. They are the stupid ones not you - you only get one body, so look after it.

I speak as someone who doesn't wear a body protector or a BS Standard Hat, but that is my choice. I have properly considered the merits of the various options and I have made an informed choice not to wear them - and a damned silly choice it is, too. Wearing proper effective safety clothing is just plain sensible, so if you want to do it, do it, and don't give a stuff about people who say you are "wrong". It is they who are wrong.

People have a misconception that Hunting Dress is set in stone. It isn't. Hunting dress is worn, come rain or shine, sun or snow, two, three or four days a week, so above all else it needs to be *practical* and it changes, in order to be practical, over the years. The things we wear are worn because, at the time they were introduced they were the best option and over time they are changed as better things come along.

50 years ago, no one except professional Hunt Staff wore "Patey-style caps. Everyone wore toppers or bowlers. Gradually that changed as people realised that Patey-style was safer - and the front-runners were sniffed at then as people wearing BS-Style caps are sometimes now. 

In 50 years time, everyone will wear BS-style caps as the norm and someone in a Patey-style will be as unusual as a top hat is now.

Likewise, the style of coats has changed over the years. My grandfather wore a swallowtail coat, my father wore a coat with massive "skirts" because that was the fashion then, and I wear a coat with modern cut and a Gore-Tex lining - because that is what is practical and sensible now.

In 50 years time, everyone will be wearing body protectors out hunting as standard and will be looking down their noses at the "young upstarts" who are daring to come out hunting in the new anti-gravity vests.

Times change. As long as you make the effort to be smart and well-presented, feel entirely free to move with them.

And I also speak as someone who has been a Master of Foxhounds for 16 seasons and whose father and both Grand-Fathers were also Masters or Chairmen of Foxhounds.
		
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## Herne (3 November 2011)

Hunters said:



			I have moved within royal circles at the highest level.  Trust me, the BBC do not know everything.  Etiquette donates 'ladies on the left - gentlemen on the right (for poppies at hunts) 

Click to expand...

One learns something new every day. I did not even know that there was a special ettiquette for poppies.

However, if you are correct, then I am extremely surpised that this man is not aware of it...

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/FS5u...ers+Their+First+Meet/Sjr_0We7Vqg/Ian+Farquhar


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## peanut (3 November 2011)

Quite frankly, Hunters, I'd feel more of a numpty wearing a nappy in a wheelchair than ever I would wearing a BP out hunting.  I suspect you would too.


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## RunToEarth (3 November 2011)

Hunters said:



			I have moved within royal circles at the highest level.  Trust me, the BBC do not know everything.  Etiquette donates 'ladies on the left - gentlemen on the right (for poppies at hunts) 

Click to expand...

Thank you for this, slightly annoying my button hole is on the right but I did manage to pin it on yesterday


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## Herne (4 November 2011)

Hunters said:



			I have moved within royal circles at the highest level.  Trust me, the BBC do not know everything.  Etiquette donates 'ladies on the left - gentlemen on the right (for poppies at hunts) 

Click to expand...

Ok, you missed the oblique request, so I'll put it straight out: do you have any provenance for this claim?

At the moment, I'm inclined to give more credance to the practice of the Master of the Duke of Beaufort's than "some-anonymous-bloke-on-the-internet-who-has-a-theory", but, then again, I love old traditions, etc, so I would be charmed to find out that this was true - and possibly even why - so I am eager to be informed...


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## VoR (5 November 2011)

Herne said:



			One learns something new every day. I did not even know that there was a special ettiquette for poppies.

However, if you are correct, then I am extremely surpised that this man is not aware of it...

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/FS5u...ers+Their+First+Meet/Sjr_0We7Vqg/Ian+Farquhar

Click to expand...

Crikey Herne, fancy him letting himself down like that


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## Herne (7 November 2011)

Shocking, isn't it?

The poor chap probably only moves in Royal circles at mid to low level, so doesn't know any better...

I think I'll leave my poppy on the left for the time being...


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## Brynmoss (8 November 2011)

Fascinating how this thread has developed into a 'poppy etiquette' debate!
Think Hunters meant that poppies should be worn on the right by ladies, so dont think Ian Farquhar very relevant!!
I have always worn my poppy on right side (was taught that correct for females) until this week, when after family debate I googled it!! 
Google stated should be worn on left 'over the heart' so I did so for opening meet, but after all this think will go back to what I have always done


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## RunToEarth (8 November 2011)

Brynmoss said:



			Fascinating how this thread has developed into a 'poppy etiquette' debate!
Think Hunters meant that poppies should be worn on the right by ladies, so dont think Ian Farquhar very relevant!!
I have always worn my poppy on right side (was taught that correct for females) until this week, when after family debate I googled it!! 
Google stated should be worn on left 'over the heart' so I did so for opening meet, but after all this think will go back to what I have always done

Click to expand...

I googled it, and found that both on the left over the heart, or on the right for ladies and left for gentlemen are both correct and accepted ways to wear poppies, but Hunters was suggesting there is a special hunting etiquette (I think!). 
I wear my poppy on my right out hunting, because my button hole on my jacket is on the right, and no one has ever told me to correct until now!


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## Herne (10 November 2011)

Brynmoss said:



			Think Hunters meant that poppies should be worn on the right by ladies, so dont think Ian Farquhar very relevant!!
		
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I'm afraid you misread it.

He said:



Hunters said:



			Etiquette donates 'ladies on the left - gentlemen on the right (for poppies at hunts)
		
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My money is still on the DoB's at the moment...


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## ihatework (10 November 2011)

Hunters said:



			Why is it, on here, people can't take the truth?  yes I do wear a Patey, oh and quite often a top hat (shock)  

My preference is that, just that..  I don't jump anything I do not think my mount will carry me safely over & no I rarely fall.  I produce horses to the highest standard and am known as a 'nagsman'.  We are a rare breed these days and with all the 'health and safety' no doubt we will become rarer to the extent that no one will be riding soon!

I think that those in back protectors aged over 25 look like numpties & that's my opinion (oh and many others) so like it or lump it!
		
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What an arrogant person you are.
It's just your type that gives hunting a bad press.


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## Brynmoss (11 November 2011)

oops!!!
Yes herne I did misread it....
Anyway, have returned to wearing my poppy on the right hand side (left as you look at me, for clarification).


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## CotsMan (13 November 2011)

I'm shocked that in 2011 there are people with such old fashioned views.  

Publicly suggesting you wouldn't like people in your company wearing a level of enhanced protection available to them must be a good way to keep your Christmas card list short.  I would have thought a little tolerance in exchange for knowing they were a lot more protected was a bit more realistic this day and age?

I too am from Gloucestershire and from my experience of "Royal riding circles" I know that tradition does not come before safety for them!


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## wilsha (22 November 2011)

wouldnt dream of going out without a bp!! most of my freinds do! i think its bred into us as pony club is very safety concious! most of the under 18s wear one and ive seen a few adults wearing them too


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## bennibones (4 December 2011)

Hunters said:



			Twenty years ago when I was a master, they could have been considered a 'No No'  Personally I am not a fan of them and they are not a regular sight with the Heythrop.  However, a lot of hunts have younger members so perhaps they are becoming more acceptable.  

My opinion, is if you are below 25 years old - maybe ok - but over 25 years old, if you need to wear one - stick to your Riding Club.
		
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Typical heythrop comment that is!! Is it any wonder they have a bad name!! hunted with the heythrop a few years ago would never go again there not a hunt your ever excepted in unless you have that sort of attitude!


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## jaspejoo (5 December 2011)

meandmyself said:



			what happens if you need to dismount and forget to unhook it?
		
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same as when you get off normally...it's only a simple clip and only takes about 1 second....i wear my jacket 5/7 days and have done for the last 4 months and i've never let mine off getting off!

OP i would definitely wear my jacket out hunting, and have done, and the Quorn were more intreigued  about my jacket than anything  better to be safe than sorry i always say...my horse is safe as houses but had one moment a few months ago which ended in a bad accident and since then i will wear mine for everything but schooling...at the end of the day, it costs nothing just to clip it on when you get on...who cares what people think...it's your safety that counts


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## MILLGREENLADY (27 April 2012)

i can see the values of wearing a p2 air jacket.. i am one of those tailorised hunting coat and patey people my jacket is so thick like a body protector once my horse did fall on top of me first day out in the new jacket because it was so thick and made of caverly twill it did save me from breaking anything ! i


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## combat_claire (27 April 2012)

jaspejoo said:



			OP i would definitely wear my jacket out hunting, and have done, a
		
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Someone told me that after inflating on impact the jacket deflates after a time, which would be around the time the paramedic at a competition reached you. How does this work in a hunting field accident where medical attention will be longer reaching the casualty??


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## woodlandswow (10 October 2012)

Resurrected for someone in CR


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