# Chances of a good home ?



## bonny (1 June 2010)

Has anybody any experience of trying to give away a horse free to a good home that's worked out ? I know all the dilema's surrounding this but can't think that's it's better to pts a healthy horse rather than give it a chance of a future. The horse in question is a big tb, 12 years old .....


----------



## Lippyx (1 June 2010)

Do you have someone in mind? If you can sell him/her for £1, that way new owner takes on full responsibility, and you can't be held responsible for any vets bills etc. Of course, this is selling rather than loaning, but if you are happy to give him/her away, then I would suggest the above.

Obviously don't advertise him for £1 but if someone comes forward offering a home, then this is what I would suggest!


----------



## bonny (1 June 2010)

No one in mind, was just wondering about the ethics of advertising a horse for nothing .....


----------



## blueneonrainbow (1 June 2010)

Dont put a healthy horse to sleep is what I would say, especially if he is only 12.. Theres always someone who is on the lookout for a decent horse and if he is free, all the better. Just try and vet any prospective new owner to ensure they arent unscrupulous dealers or something.


----------



## contiki's mum (1 June 2010)

i gave my exracehorse 2 a friend of a friend worked out great. a woman at livery yard i know gave a few horses away but it was 2 ppl she knew. i wouldnt advertise it free or for a £1 try word of mouth.


----------



## bonny (1 June 2010)

He is an exracehorse and big and I find it hard to see why anyone would want him - I certainly don't know anyone who would ....


----------



## kirstyl (1 June 2010)

Is he not able to be worked at all?


----------



## bonny (1 June 2010)

Yes, he's fine health wise


----------



## pinklilly (1 June 2010)

Why do you want to give him away?  I advertised mine for sale to weed out those who just wanted a free horse, I accepted a token amount £200, he was suitable for light hacking.


----------



## contiki's mum (1 June 2010)

is he ok 2 ride work with etc? if so i dont see you having a problem! mine was 15 when i gave him away perfect to work with n hack out but total nutter when asked to go in a circle or jump! he evented b4 i got him!! i would mayb put a loan ad for him talk to local rc see if they know of any1 and take it from there?


----------



## Chestnuttymare (1 June 2010)

does he have behavioural problems? Why would you be wanting to give him away, just because he is a big ex racer? Plenty of us have them and i know someone with an 18.1 ex racer so not sure where you are coming from. Which part of the country are you?


----------



## Tiffany (1 June 2010)

bonny said:



			He is an exracehorse and big and I find it hard to see why anyone would want him - I certainly don't know anyone who would ....
		
Click to expand...

Bonny why do you think noone would want him? Personally I wouldn't advertise him for free because I'd be worried someone would take him just to pass him on again. Think someone has already mentioned loaning him with a view to buying for a nominal fee.

Why don't you want him?


----------



## bonny (1 June 2010)

I just find it hard to see what future he has, there's plenty of horses looking for a home who would be easier to keep and to ride.  Plus he would need to go to an experienced home and the type of person who i imagine being able to manage him would surely want something younger with more potential.


----------



## bonny (1 June 2010)

Maybe I should add he's already been sold cheaply and come back so a loan isn't possible and doesn't really solve the problem


----------



## dozzie (1 June 2010)

Would he cope with hunting?


----------



## FestiveBoomBoom (1 June 2010)

Does he have behavioural issues? Is he dangerous? It's difficult to say without knowing what he's all about. 
Plenty of people out there would like a decent sized ex racer and 12 isn't old. If he is just a quirky sort then I don't see any reason why he couldn't be sold, maybe try project horse website? However, if he is a genuine danger for any reason then PTS would be my preferred option than giving him away where he could potentially be passed around and have a miserable life


----------



## bonny (1 June 2010)

He's hunted in the past so yes, although would need an experienced rider.


----------



## skint1 (1 June 2010)

Is he good/reasonabel-ish to load? 
Does he have a reasonable temperament on the ground? (perfect not neccessary-but would he kill a timid handler?)
Health issues? 
Vices? 
Would he enjoy a home with plenty of long hacks, local rc stuff including fun rides,1 day events and local horse shows? Is he able to jump?   

Or would he enjoy being a happy hacker that went to a few fun rides and local shows? 

I know 2 people who may be looking for horses right now, both have experience, particularly with ex racers, which is why I ask.


----------



## NeedNewHorse (1 June 2010)

I don't really get it. What's wrong with him?

Why would you want to give away a perfectly good horse, 12 isn't old, big isn't a problem (unless you are trying to sell him as a lead rein.. !!!) and what's wrong with a TB?

What has he done before?

Most importantly though do not sell him or advertise him for free. Nothing good will come of this, should you know of someone who wants a horse and you want to give them to him good. But only if you know this person to be genuine. If you advertise for free you will get someone dodgy or someone trying to make a fast buck, so you wont know wheres he's gone anyway.


----------



## horseandshoes77 (1 June 2010)

dnt be offended but you seem to be very evasive when questioned about this horse.....12 is by no means old...loads of people like forward going ex racers....what is wrong with him ?

Height shouldnt be a prob.....is he dangerous?

second what every1 else said...give him away or sell for 1 well hes nt going to have very good life...will be passd from pillar to post.

would help if you gave a little info on him 1


----------



## Donkeymad (1 June 2010)

Why did he come back?
very sorry, but I think there must be something you are not teling us. Plenty of people wold pay good money for the horse you have barely described to us.


----------



## bonny (1 June 2010)

I'm not trying to be evasive, what I really wanted to know was whether people thought it more ethical to give him away or have him pts and I really can't see why anyone would want a horse like him . 
16.3 12 years old, has raced under rules and point to pointed. 
Not bad to handle but needs to be in an experienced home with people who understand tb's otherwise I think he would get the upper hand.  Not great to tie up but fine otherwise.
Ok to hack, but doesn't do waiting at junctions etc.
Jumps, obviously in his career and I guess out hunting but I doubt he's done anything else.
Nice looking horse if you like big tb's !
Not great to get on, won't stand and wait !
Any takers ?


----------



## bonny (1 June 2010)

Donkeymad ? why would anyone pay good money for him, to do what with ?


----------



## jensheff26 (1 June 2010)

send him to me he sounds actually nice i like a horse with a few quirks


----------



## Horsehead (1 June 2010)

Sounds pretty much like what i'm looking for... so I can't be the only one!?


----------



## Umbongo (1 June 2010)

bonny said:



			I'm not trying to be evasive, what I really wanted to know was whether people thought it more ethical to give him away or have him pts and I really can't see why anyone would want a horse like him . 
16.3 12 years old, has raced under rules and point to pointed. 
Not bad to handle but needs to be in an experienced home with people who understand tb's otherwise I think he would get the upper hand.  Not great to tie up but fine otherwise.
Ok to hack, but doesn't do waiting at junctions etc.
Jumps, obviously in his career and I guess out hunting but I doubt he's done anything else.
Nice looking horse if you like big tb's !
Not great to get on, won't stand and wait !
Any takers ?
		
Click to expand...

TBH a lot of people buy horses straight out of training that do a lot worse! He doesn't sound as bad as you make out and I am sure you would get lots of takers for the right price. If you were to give him away for free or £1 to a good home as others have said, do not advertise him as such unless it is to someone you know. I am sure there are a lot of people that would be willing to buy him!


----------



## jensheff26 (1 June 2010)

please be carefull if giving him away someone will see you coming and he will be passed from pillar to post, can someone on here help you


----------



## FestiveBoomBoom (1 June 2010)

Well he doesn't sound dangerous, I assume he doesn't tank off, rear, buck terribly etc? Those are the kinds of things I would say ethically it would be kinder to put to sleep rather than give away for free. I still think you could sell him for a relatively decent amount. Preferably a home with lots of off road hacking so that he doesn't have to deal with busy junctions and not wanting to stand still to be mounted, well that's a typical ex racer trait so wouldn't be put off by that either.


----------



## dozzie (1 June 2010)

So he is a bit jiggy and feisty then? Team chasing? It does sound like he may have a niche somewhere.


----------



## Rachaelpink (1 June 2010)

My friend (who's on this forum) got an ex racer for free- straight from race track. Think she was 8 when she got her from forum- think it was saddlesoap. Needed totally re-schooling. She's now doing unaffiliated ODE, SJ etc. So yes would of thought there would easily be a few takers, it's weeding them out to find who's likely to keep it and give it a good home.


----------



## milo'n'molly (2 June 2010)

Please dont do it. 
Only 3 weeks ago my friend had  a spotty she'd advertised as for loan as field companion as he doesnt stay sound in work. Had all the vet options done, had two ops and didnt want toput him through another op/box rest. Loads of people responded and each one was vetted. She chose the most normal person who wanted a companion for a youngster.
Turns out her fella is a Gypsey who sold him to a dealer the very same day as he went. Dealer is now trying to sell her back a lame horse for more money than she has got And is posting pics on facebook of them riding it up and down the road. PLEASE be very careful


----------



## reindeerlover (2 June 2010)

Why can't you see how anyone would want him? Lots of people have told you what kind of people would want him. 16.3 isn't that big, 12 isn't that old. If he's pointed then he's obviously hunted and would make a team chaser/hunter/hack for experienced rider. Maybe even (shock horror) a RC allrounder when he's had a bit of schooling. 

I think you should advertise him for £1000 to a good home and when you have picked someone nice who is suitable then tell them he's only £10 or something. No reason to PTS, although I'm not against it for some horses. If you're local I'll take him and find him a good home.


----------



## MontyandZoom (2 June 2010)

He sounds like most ex-racers that i know!!! I think alot of people would be interested. I would NOT however offer him for free. That is how Monty ended up in 7 homes in 8 years! You get a whole load of numpties who don't know what they are doing (although i got both mine for free )

Perhaps advertise as loan with view to buy and then sell him for a nominal amount (ie £1 or a couple of hundred if he has tack etc). Much safer IMO


----------



## TS_ (2 June 2010)

Where abouts are you, I may know someone who'd be interested. Feel free to PM if you'd rather.


----------



## SO1 (2 June 2010)

Have you thought about asking one of the race horse charities such as HEROs to help you rehome him.

If he is sound and not dangerous someone will be interested - a friend of mine has an ex racer with quirks that she got via the Blue cross and was happy to pay a donation for him which was over £1.

I would not give him away for free as dealer is likely to come and collect him and sell him on for a big profit to some unsuspecting person - and dealers come in all shapes and sizes often with lots of charm so you might not be able to tell who is genuine or who is dodgy.

12 is not old at all. You could also try advertising him on project horses website if he is very quirky. There is someone on there at the moment who has retrained races horses in the past and looking for a loan with a view to buy in the wanted section.


----------



## JenTaz (2 June 2010)

the horse you have described is exactly what my friends horse does, he's the most impatient horse in the world, you have to basically take a run and jump to get on him, he gets over excited jumping and all of that, but he is perfect for what he does, i cant understand why you think 12 is old, or why you just want to give him away as there would be someone who would be happy to buy him, like many people have said he has his quirks and some have also said he is what they are after.

I think maybe you just cant be bothered with horse ownership and think pts or giving him away for free, is easier than finding him the right home that he deserves, after all you bought him so you are the one who is meant to look after him!!!

Just because you don't want the horse, doesnt mean there isnt someone out there who would love him for who he is.


----------



## benson21 (2 June 2010)

Reading between the lines, and I may be completely wrong, I hear that you have got yourself a horse that you havent bonded with, and maybe am quite scared of.
You are coming across as you dont really care what happens to him, which is such a shame, if you give him away you dont know whats gonna happen to him, could you live with that?
At some time there must of been something you liked about this horse, be kind to yourself and to him, and sell him for an amount that means he would be wanted and not just passed on.


----------



## Ally_F (2 June 2010)

He sounds just like my boy! I got my 16h (then) 11 y/o ex pointer.

His old owner was on crutches, he bucked his heart out the minute I sat on him, and the owner was quite obviously terrified of him. Granted he was a handful until he was about 13/14 but now he is so quite and polite.

She didn't tell us a price until after I had ridden him, and informed my father that he was going to buy the horse for me  .... £500!

He is the best horse I could have every wanted - there is always someone that would be interested - please don't consider PTS if he is healthy and ridable without giving selling a proper chance, no matter what you think of him, someone will love him.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

To be honest I'm not sure that I do care very much what happens to him, seriously considering having him pts rather than passed on again. He'll never make a rc horse or a happy hacker and I genuinely can't see what else he could do. Possibly hunt but again alot of horses could do the job better and without the hassles involved with him. Alot of exracehorses don't have a future outside racing and like I said this horse has already been sold and returned and I think his future isn't promising.  
How many big, old tb's really end up in a loving forever home ?


----------



## reindeerlover (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			To be honest I'm not sure that I do care very much what happens to him, seriously considering having him pts rather than passed on again. He'll never make a rc horse or a happy hacker and I genuinely can't see what else he could do. Possibly hunt but again alot of horses could do the job better and without the hassles involved with him. Alot of exracehorses don't have a future outside racing and like I said this horse has already been sold and returned and I think his future isn't promising.  
How many big, old tb's really end up in a loving forever home ?
		
Click to expand...

Oh ok, so you're not really looking for advice then? Well why didn't you just say?


----------



## TS_ (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			To be honest I'm not sure that I do care very much what happens to him, seriously considering having him pts rather than passed on again. He'll never make a rc horse or a happy hacker and I genuinely can't see what else he could do. Possibly hunt but again alot of horses could do the job better and without the hassles involved with him. Alot of exracehorses don't have a future outside racing and like I said this horse has already been sold and returned and I think his future isn't promising.  
How many big, old tb's really end up in a loving forever home ?
		
Click to expand...

You still don't seem to have really gone into what's wrong with him to make you think that, unless I've missed it? It's big.. so some people are also big/tall and so need a big horse. It's an ex-race horse.. so plenty of people have them. So what's so bad about it that it needs to be put to sleep. If it's difficult how so? And what makes you think it could hunt if it couldn't happily hack? Not sure I'd hunt something I couldn't even take on a hack.


----------



## cloudandmatrix (2 June 2010)

poor poor horse. you are going to pts a healthy horse, just because its to much hassle. lots of people would be intersted in a quirky tb to team chase etc. and 12 is not old either!!!!! 
please, for his sake, advertise him for £1000, be honest, and he WILL find a loving home, just takes some time, which you dont seem to be willing to give to him


----------



## MontyandZoom (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			How many big, old tb's really end up in a loving forever home ?
		
Click to expand...

This one!!!!! 

12 is NOT old!!!! Monty was 25 when I got him and was 17hh!!!! He was well loved and cared for until we lost him in February and I would do it again. He was NOT an RC horse (wouldn't load and was too old to jump) He was NOT a happy hacker (very spooky and silly and not for novices).

But I loved him dearly and spent all my money and time giving him a happy home. I really don't understand what your deal is???! There doesn't seem to be anything 'wrong' with this horse.

Sleep tight my Monty boy


----------



## applecart14 (2 June 2010)

Why don't you consider an equine blood bank, that way you can be sure your horse has a good life and is not passed from pillar to post.  My friends horse ended up at a blood bank unit in Milton Keynes.

Here is a link to one in Scotland.

http://www.eolabs.com/facilities.htm


----------



## Pilib (2 June 2010)

I really can't believe that you'd say you don't care what happens to this horse and that you'd rather put him to sleep than get off your lazy ar*e and find him a home!!!!!!!!!

It is your moral responsibility to make sure that this horse gets a decent crack at having a loving decent home. Your attitude quite frankly disgusts me.

What you've described isn't un-sellable. I have a 16.2 full TB who raced. He is big and strong and came to me as he bolted with his last rider and they were scared of him. I got him when he was 11. I've had him for 7 years now and there are things he does and things he doesn't. He isn't perfect but I love him and wouldn't dream of parting with him. 

Please take some time to give this horse a chance, I honestly don't know how you'd live with yourself if you pts because you couldn't be bothered...................


----------



## saddlesore (2 June 2010)

With the others here - 12 is not old and 16.3hh isn't big! My last horse was a 16.2/3hh ex racer, that was far too nuts to jump, wouls get really hot in the school and regularly dumped much better riders than me. But we clicked and I loved him to bits. He would have been with me into his old age if degenerative injury hadn't meant he was pts 

However, I suspect you don't actually want advice and are just being deliberately inflammatory


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

He's not going to a blood back !
Montyand Zoom, I appreciate some of them end up in loving homes and yours certainly did but they are in a small minority, I have sold tb's before and I know that what people are looking for is something smaller with the potential to make allrounders and for your average Rc type rider this horse would be too much.


----------



## MontyandZoom (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			He's not going to a blood back !
Montyand Zoom, I appreciate some of them end up in loving homes and yours certainly did but they are in a small minority, I have sold tb's before and I know that what people are looking for is something smaller with the potential to make allrounders and for your average Rc type rider this horse would be too much.
		
Click to expand...

That may be true but you owe him the chance to go to a loving home. I am all for doing the responsible thing and have no problem with people putting to sleep healthy animals with serious behavioural issues or horses that are unsound where there is a risk that they may be passed on through dealers to be ridden or be constantly in pain.

HOWEVER, your horse is none of these things. PLEASE at least put up an advert and see what happens.

If you are that desperate, I would even consider thinking of sending him to a REPUTABLE dealer so that they can sell him on.

Please don't end his life when he still has so much more of it to live.


----------



## reindeerlover (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			He's not going to a blood back !
Montyand Zoom, I appreciate some of them end up in loving homes and yours certainly did but they are in a small minority, I have sold tb's before and I know that what people are looking for is something smaller with the potential to make allrounders and for your average Rc type rider this horse would be too much.
		
Click to expand...

Send him to Ascot sales then, you might get £150 for him after your expenses and you know he'll have gone to someone with experience.


----------



## Pilib (2 June 2010)

If you know soooooooooo much why come on here and post about it!!!!!

You appear to have made up your mind that the horse is no good and you don't care what happens to it so why the post??


----------



## FlonyPony (2 June 2010)

Have a look through wanted ads - someone might like a loan just because they can't afford to purchase a horse in the first place. 

I was given my first pony through a wanted ad as free to a good home, I made myself a good friend, and had a fantastic but quirky pony who saw out the rest of her days being spoilt rotten! They can have happy endings!


----------



## Summer Sun (2 June 2010)

It never ceases to amaze me how many heartless 'horse lovers' there are around. You don;t deserve the breath off that horse if you can't even be bothered to find him a decent home. I'd find a new hobby if i were you - joker!!!


----------



## Spudlet (2 June 2010)

What a weird post!

16.3 is big but for a tall person such as myself ideal, and while he sounds quirky he doesn't sound like the devil incarnate. It sounds to me more like you have decided to have him pts and want people on here to confirm that decision for you. 

If you want to have him pts, he's your horse, but it sounds like that would be a great shame as he hardly sounds unrehomable, unless there is more to this than you are telling.

If you can't muster the will to at least care what happens to him, I strongly suggest that you d not replace him as you sound like a less than ideal owner.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

Guess I was weighing up the ethics of putting to sleep a healthy horse opposed to just passing the problem on.......it's a big problem what to do with horses like this and I was interested to know what other people thought.  I have been in a similar position in the past and would never have considered pts but now I think that's maybe just sticking your head in the sand and not being realistic.
Ideally someone would just turn up and take the horse away but that doesn't mean his future is assured just means it's someone elses problem.
I meant the question of how many horses like this do you see in happy homes, there are too many horses as it is and certainly he's not the kind of horse that's likely to have a happy ending ......


----------



## cloudandmatrix (2 June 2010)

why not?? i think there is something you are not tellin g us as he certainly doesnt sound unhomeable to me ....


----------



## Spudlet (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Guess I was weighing up the ethics of putting to sleep a healthy horse opposed to just passing the problem on.......it's a big problem what to do with horses like this and I was interested to know what other people thought.  I have been in a similar position in the past and would never have considered pts but now I think that's maybe just sticking your head in the sand and not being realistic.
Ideally someone would just turn up and take the horse away but that doesn't mean his future is assured just means it's someone elses problem.
I meant the question of how many horses like this do you see in happy homes, there are too many horses as it is and certainly he's not the kind of horse that's likely to have a happy ending ......
		
Click to expand...

Some people like quirks, they keep them interested! You should read 'This Horsey Life' by Simon Barnes, the Times columnist - his mare sounds like a little nutcase but he adores her and has had her for years - long after she could no longer be ridden


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

As none of you know me or my horse situation can we keep off the personal comments.  
Would be more helpful to have a proper debate about unwanted horses


----------



## TS_ (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			I have sold tb's before and I know that what people are looking for is something smaller with the potential to make allrounders and for your average Rc type rider this horse would be too much.
		
Click to expand...

I actually think you're wrong, I went to the Brightwells sales at Malvern last week and all of the big TB's made money but all of the little quiet ones that looked like the lovely RC/teen type went for less than £500. So I actually think that it's the slightly bigger ones that are selling at the moment. People I know are looking for bigger ones, rather than small. I would honestly stick him in a horse sales somewhere with no reserve if you care so little about him, i'm sure someone would take him - although only risk with that would be meat man or rubbish dealers - risky could put small reserve on. Don't put a healthy horse to sleep, I know that there are a lot of people out there who prefer something that's a bit of a challenge. Also a lot of people of people really like ex race horses.


----------



## reindeerlover (2 June 2010)

I have a "big" 16.3 "old" 12yo ex racer. He is by no means an easy ride but he hacks, schools, competes and is fantastic across country. He has bandy/knobbly legs and several scars. He will be for sale at some point and I will just wait it out until the right person comes along. I can ride him, I can even compete him and I am not a spectacular rider. I will look for someone who wants to do the things he's good at, not some idiot who wants a cheap nag. 

I suspect this is more of an advertising post and you want someone from here to come and pick him up? You are coming across as a bit of a tool in my opinion, you say it's "passing the problem on" but where exactly is the problem? He's not too big or too old or too mental so what's the deal?


----------



## Spudlet (2 June 2010)

If I were to be looking for a tb, I would ideally need one of 16hh plus, as I am fairly tall. I can ride smaller chunkier horses, but little tbs don't take up my leg.


----------



## MontyandZoom (2 June 2010)

You have not really come across very well in this post TBH but I am now understanding what you mean. I am a real advocate of not 'passing the buck' for the horses sake. If I had a horse that was dangerous etc I would of course PTS once all other avenues had been exhausted.

But you haven't exhausted the posibilities yet so don't right him off. If I weren't going to uni in September, I would have him in a heartbeat. If you read any of my posts you will see how much fun I have with Zoom.

She is a one-eyed ex-polo pony who was meant to be shot since she was 'unsuitable' for riding club activites. It turns out, she just needed time to chill! She is still quirky as hell but a wonderful companion! Your horse could quite easily end up with someone like me but you have to give him that chance.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

Farrierlover, see my above post about personal comments - there's no need for talk like that ! People should be able to post on here without receiving replies like that, I'm talking about unwanted tb's not myself.....and I'm certainly not advertising him !


----------



## applecart14 (2 June 2010)

Why are you so against the blood bank Bonny?  Did you even bother to read the link I sent you?  For your info the horses live in a natural herd outdoors in very large fields from May to October.  Then in October they are all housed in their herds in huge barns with adlib hay.  They give blood approx every 3 months and are given a token feed whilst donating which they adore.  Their feet are trimmed and they are wormed as part of a proper worming programme.  As they live out naturally as part of a herd (as they would do in the wild) the horses are extremely happy and stress free.

You strike me as being a little cold hearted and ignorant if you don't mind me saying.  You should be aware of the facts before you point blank say "he's not going to a blood bank".  This is your horse and he is your responsibility.  Its what you agreed at the outset and it is your PRIVILEGE to have a horse so it is your RESPONSIBILITY to find a good home for him.  If the blood bank can offer him a place grab the opportunity with both hands.  If not sell him cheaply.  Above all why not just be honest with us H&H forum users and tell us the proper story about why you want to sell him  (the real story and not some made up stuff).


----------



## reindeerlover (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Farrierlover, see my above post about personal comments - there's no need for talk like that ! People should be able to post on here without receiving replies like that, I'm talking about unwanted tb's not myself.....and I'm certainly not advertising him !
		
Click to expand...

I said that is how you are coming across, which is my opinion and I suspect the opinion of many others who are reading this. 

If we are not talking about YOUR horse then fine- in a general situation I would say "advertise the horse cheaply and honestly" you will find someone who WANTS a horse like this, there are many sports he could turn his hoof to and who's to say he won't make a happy hacker? I would never make such a sweeping statement about a horse, there are many far better riders than me who can make most horses into most things. 

If a horse is unsound in mind or body then I have no problem with pts but that does not seem the case here. And I agree with applecart- how come you are so against any other option for the "possible" horse? If it were me I'd jump at any sensible option offered to me.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

I'm not coldhearted and certainly not ignorant !
I'm trying to be realisitic and struggling with the decision, helpful replies welcome but no more like that !
It's a big problem with unwanted tb's


----------



## OWLIE185 (2 June 2010)

No need to PTS as it looks to me that ther are a number of people on here that would happily buy him for a sensible amount of money.


----------



## applecart14 (2 June 2010)

You have still not said why you are against the blood bank, prey do tell.

Apologies for calling you cold hearted, this is how you are coming across.  Maybe you are not over sentimental which can appear to be similiar to cold hearted to some, so apologies if this is the case.  However I do believe we may have previously clashed horns before now on the H&H forum.


----------



## TS_ (2 June 2010)

How long have you had said horse? What have you done with him to date? What has he done that's caused you concern? I'm sure if you told us a little more we'd be in a better position to advise you whether PTS is your only option. As far as I can see he seems like he could go on to a nice home, a lot of people don't have much money to spend and are looking for the slightly more difficult horse at the lower end of the market.


----------



## Leaf (2 June 2010)

have you tried the  British Racing schools? they may take her on if she is suitable, usualy a waiting list though.


----------



## Umbongo (2 June 2010)

But he is only "unwanted" because you think he is. Plenty of people have already said he sounds their type of horse, or for people they know. If I was looking for a TB I would be looking around that height, as they can be very narrow a smaller type of around 15.2hh can feel like riding a 14hh pony to me! I work at a racing yard and the horses are around 17hh, they definitely feel a lot smaller than that!

I would be looking into finding a home for him, be very honest about him, give it some time and I am sure he will find a nice home. Although it does sound like you have already made the decision. I have no problems with pts a horse that could be past from pillar to post, be sold onto an unsuspecting young rider and causing an accident etc. But from what you have said I know plenty of riders including myself that would enjoy him and his quirks. He sounds like he may suit team chasing for example, or with work could hunt. Lots of people are out looking for the more difficult and challenging horses at the lower end of the market, who wants a 100% perfect horse anyway...it gets boring


----------



## Tink_87 (2 June 2010)

TBH he sounds like my type of horse, and I know many people who would give him a loving home. 

But you know better.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

TS - I don't want to be identified on here so I don't want to say too much about myself but I am involved with racing and do know what I'm talking about. There's nothing very wrong with the horse but he's not easy either to handle or ride and I think that's more of a problem when horses are big. He could be scary in the wrong hands.  I have bought and sold many tb's in the past and always worried about where they end up ....but this horse is not exactly lovable, I can't see what job he could do that lots of other similar horses couldn't do alot better. He could live for another 20 years but he'll always be high maintence.  I know lots of people like exracers but there are many horses looking for a good home that are better than him.  I don't even know anymore why I posted on here or what I expected. I think there isn't an easy answer with horses like him and I don't know whether I would feel better making the decision for him or just hoping he goes and I don't know the outcome.  Alot of people maybe need to be more realisitic about what happens to horses at the end of their racing career, it's easy to find a home for the ones who are just too slow or whatever but the older ones are different.


----------



## NeedNewHorse (2 June 2010)

Why are saying you would be passing on the problem? People buy horses because they like them, they are not  problem to us.

Without being rude, this whole scenerio sounds really odd to me. Even if you don't particulary like this horse why would you not want to do right by it and at least try and find him a home suitable (which by the way doesn't sound like a big task)

x


----------



## Kat (2 June 2010)

Bonny I think you need to explain yourself again, you aren't coming accross clearly. 

Unwanted TBs are a problem, hence the various retraining and rehoming charities. However if they are sound and free from major behavioural problems most can be rehomed successfully, ok so they may not be as easy to sell as a WB or an ISH but priced accordingly there are homes out there. Several people on here have ex-racers doing a variety fo jobs. 

I shared an ex-racer who was given away on permanent loan to the lady I shared with. She was sound but moody and with the usual TB quirks like not standing to be mounted etc. She became unwanted when she became unsuitable for breeding and she'd done nothing but be a brood mare since coming off the track. When my friend got her she was a similar age and size to yours. My friend was a BHSAI with some experience of working on a racing yard many years before, she had not ridden for years and wasn't looking for a horse, she couldn't afford to buy one but was pleased to have the mare as a hack and gave her a permanent home. When I started sharing her I'd not ridden for three years and had never ridden outside a riding school and had never hacked alone, although the mare could be a handful nothing awful happened and it was a good experience. This mare was a worse prospect than yours, she hadn't jumped at all, was a right old cow in the stable and was very touchy about her rear end being handled or having anyone behond her. She was also a bugger to catch. But she had a loving and permanent home. 

Your horse could easily find a suitable home, if I wasn't looking for something suitable to share with my husband I'd consider him. His issues don't sound like anything beyond the capabilities of a reasonably experienced rider and there are plenty of those about who would take him on to turn into a RC horse or as a project. 

If we are talking about unsound horses or horses with behavioural issues then PTS is the kindest option but your horse isn't one of these. 

I don't think horses should ever be given away, it does them no favours to be sold for less than meat money unless you are very sure who you are giving the horse to. For every happy example like montyandzoom there are many more who end up with unscrupulous dealers. 

But your horse is a useful riding horse who just needs an experienced home, he isn't a useless unwanted TB. 

And the question has to be asked, if you think he is so worthless why did you buy him??


----------



## DiablosGold (2 June 2010)

16.3 isn't big and 12 isn't old...

He isn't unsellable, but then you seem to have already made your mind up and have just been looking for the 'shoot it' comments


----------



## flojo1 (2 June 2010)

You seem to have recieved a bit of a hard time on here for someone just looking for a bit of advice.  From someone who has recently rehomed a horse I have some experience.  If you can no longer keep the horse then it is your responsibility to find a good home for him instead.  I have rehomed my horse on long term loan to a loverly home which I vetted first, had a 3 month trial period with then went to the long term agreement I go and check him as offten as I can and keep in touch, via phone and e-mail.  I have had a friend with a horse that needed a "tie back" operation to be ridden agian and she gave him away free to good home, again she strictly vetted homes and is still in contact with the new owners.  
I would say if you  really want to find him a new home, then there is certainly a good chance of getting him one but, as the current owner you must be responsible and careful to who you give him too.  Advertise him for long term loan/view to buy, be honest about him and I'm sure you get some interest, which will include the usual "numties" that you will have too weed out.


----------



## TS_ (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			TS - I don't want to be identified on here so I don't want to say too much about myself but I am involved with racing and do know what I'm talking about. There's nothing very wrong with the horse but he's not easy either to handle or ride and I think that's more of a problem when horses are big. He could be scary in the wrong hands.  I have bought and sold many tb's in the past and always worried about where they end up ....but this horse is not exactly lovable, I can't see what job he could do that lots of other similar horses couldn't do alot better. He could live for another 20 years but he'll always be high maintence.  I know lots of people like exracers but there are many horses looking for a good home that are better than him.  I don't even know anymore why I posted on here or what I expected. I think there isn't an easy answer with horses like him and I don't know whether I would feel better making the decision for him or just hoping he goes and I don't know the outcome.  Alot of people maybe need to be more realisitic about what happens to horses at the end of their racing career, it's easy to find a home for the ones who are just too slow or whatever but the older ones are different.
		
Click to expand...

I understand, and you don't need to go into masses of details that's fine. I'm just curious, I can definitely see where you're coming from because 16.3hh worth of horse that decides it doesn't want to play ball can be a nightmare. I do believe though that he could have a chance of a nice home. I know no one wants to be responsible for selling a horse on that could have the potential to be dangerous in the wrong hands. But you could give give him a month - advertise him, being totally honest (but not negative) see if anyone turns up. Don't ask too much for him, but just give him a chance, every horse deserves a chance. Vet any prospective buyer the best you can and see what happens. Surely that's better than putting to sleep, but at the end of the day you know the horse and it's your decision. So do whatever feels right, and what you could live with.


----------



## applecart14 (2 June 2010)

She definetely sounds shady to me Heidirusso.  She has still not answered my question although I have asked her twice now.  She skirts around the issues and is not forthcoming in her answers.  She sounds like she has already made her mind up about having the horse PTS and just wants to either justify herself or make people say "yes we agree with your dear".  

If I were you I wouldn't bother to reply as she is obviously incapable of telling the truth and not worth pondering over.  Save your breath for the posters that do need your help.


----------



## Bri (2 June 2010)

- I have to say I do see where bonny is coming from. From what they've said it sounds as if they have a horse who isn't particularly easy, has already been returned once, and is likely to have an uncertain future. Yes, he may not be that old, or that difficult...but from what the OP has said, he certainly isn't special either. Although I'm sure someone out there that could love him & give him a home for live, it's not exactly guaranteed. I don't see why having him pts is so awful - he would be saved from an uncertain future, and it's not as if the horse is going to know anything about it once its gone? 

In a way, I don't see how this is different from all the debate about breeding unwanted foals? I think the OP is being quite sensible in considering having it PTS if they can't see another future for it?


----------



## Umbongo (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Alot of people maybe need to be more realisitic about what happens to horses at the end of their racing career, it's easy to find a home for the ones who are just too slow or whatever but the older ones are different.
		
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. I also work in racing and we successfully re-home all of our horses. They can be around 17hh, and we have re homed horses that have been up to 15/16 years old. 12 is not old my any means, and ours do all come with their quirks. I think he does stand a chance of re-homing, you just have to weed out all the numpties.

If you think pts would be better, and are very sure that there is no one out there that would love him and secure him a future, or if you do re home then he could be dangerous then do so.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

Bri thanks for your reply ...a voice of reason ! and Applecart, I know alll the arguments about a public forum and all that but please go away !


----------



## Rueysmum (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			TS - ....but this horse is not exactly lovable, I can't see what job he could do that lots of other similar horses couldn't do alot better. He could live for another 20 years but he'll always be high maintence.  I know lots of people like exracers but there are many horses looking for a good home that are better than him.
		
Click to expand...

I have got a fairly unlovable, high maintenance 21 year old TB who I bought off the track at the age of 3.  He can be rather unpleasant a lot of the time, although he does have character and quite likes hacking.  There are loads of other TBs/ex-racers who could do a much better job than him but I didn't find them, I found him.  

I have stuck with him all these years and I do love him really, although he doesn't give an awful lot back and has several issues which drive me mad. 

There must be more people like me who are willing to give him a chance.  If you don't even advertise him you'll never know.


----------



## flojo1 (2 June 2010)

Katt said:



			I don't think horses should ever be given away, it does them no favours to be sold for less than meat money unless you are very sure who you are giving the horse to. For every happy example like montyandzoom there are many more who end up with unscrupulous dealers.
		
Click to expand...

Don't agree with this at all.  I have sold two horses on for less than meat money and both have great homes.  One a mare with a Loss of use claim against her due to a bad fall XC, she was well bred with papers and is now a broodmare, a very well loved one I may add, the other a gelding only suitable for hacking lives on a 9000 acre estate used as companion/hacking horse for an old lady who adores him, still in contact with both. 

Its how and who you rehome horses too and how responsible you are about vetting new homes, doing trials and visting the horse (without an appointment). Rather than how much money they pay.   The horses that end up at various dealer yards are more often than not been rehomed quickly and without much thought and these kind of people are as much of a problem. 

Bonny at least you are giving this much thought... enough to post on hear for others thoughts too.  Even if PTS is what you want to do you are obviously reading and open to others opinions, good luck with your decision.


----------



## martlin (2 June 2010)

You know what, Bonny, just drop him off at my yard - he might become useful, he might not, but in the meantime will be well fed and cared for


----------



## Kat (2 June 2010)

flojo1 said:



			Don't agree with this at all.  I have sold two horses on for less than meat money and both have great homes.  One a mare with a Loss of use claim against her due to a bad fall XC, she was well bred with papers and is now a broodmare, a very well loved one I may add, the other a gelding only suitable for hacking lives on a 9000 acre estate used as companion/hacking horse for an old lady who adores him, still in contact with both. 

Its how and who you rehome horses too and how responsible you are about vetting new homes, doing trials and visting the horse (without an appointment). Rather than how much money they pay.   The horses that end up at various dealer yards are more often than not been rehomed quickly and without much thought and these kind of people are as much of a problem. 

Bonny at least you are giving this much thought... enough to post on hear for others thoughts too.  Even if PTS is what you want to do you are obviously reading and open to others opinions, good luck with your decision.
		
Click to expand...


As I said "unless you are very sure who you are giving them too" if you have done your homework on the potential owner and/or you know them and/or they have had an extensive loan period then selling for £1 for a lovely home for life, like monty and zoom is brilliant, but in general advertising a horse for sale for less than meat money is likely to bring forth the undesireables.


----------



## flojo1 (2 June 2010)

Hence my perivous post explaining you will have to Weed out the "numpties" that will always phone.  Like those who phoned for my broodmare wanting a cheap riding horse.  The people who don't weed out these "undesirables" are the people who are the main problem, not those willing to take on a horse as it is for less then meat money.


----------



## andrewwright (2 June 2010)

Hi im looking for a horse whereabouts are you and does it have any vices


----------



## Chestnuttymare (2 June 2010)

There you go bonny, martlin has given you an out. In fact a few people have said they would have him. Give him to martlin and give the poor horse a chance.
As for 16.3 being big, well i would never buy a horse under 16.2 so to me that isn't big. As for 12 being old, fair comment if you are looking for a 'prospect' but if not, then that is when a horse has matured and starts to come into its own. My mare is 16.2 ex racer aged 13 when I got  her, he can't be any worse than she was but she has now been re schooled and is the best hacking horse, will pass any weird and wonderful vehicles, tree felling, kamikaze pheasants, pigs, sheep blah blah blah. She is now 20 and still 'useful'.
If the horse is totally nuts or totally unsound then pts is probably an option, but you have described what myself and many many friends have and adore. I am not a superstar rider either.
There are lots of options here. I am involved in an ex racehorse club and I am sure we could find the right place for him if all else fails.
Just because you find him 'unloveable' doesn't mean to say nobody else would love him.
I feel so sorry for this horse.
If you are involved in racing, you will know of all the various charities and clubs that help with horses coming out of training.  I am not sure why you are considering pts, also if you are involved in racing, why would you think that 16.3 is big? Lot's of racehorses are bigger than that.


----------



## martlin (2 June 2010)

chestnuttymare said:



			There you go bonny, martlin has given you an out. In fact a few people have said they would have him. Give him to martlin and give the poor horse a chance.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks CM
In fact, why give him to me? I'll buy him - £50 enough? He'll have a good home all right, most probably for life.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

I am involved in racing and have been for years and he's alot bigger than most ! I don't think height is necessarily a problem but in his case it is an issue and does make him harder to handle.  I once advertised a horse his size that was also difficult to mount and not one person who came out could get on him.  Alot of people overestimate their horse riding and handling skills and horses like him who have been in racing for years are pretty set in their ways and not easy in a normal weekend rider type home.  I know I'm generalising but I'm also talking from experience.


----------



## skint1 (2 June 2010)

I'm really surprised that 16.3 is considered much bigger than the average race horse, but I have never worked in the industry so will take your word for that.  

All the "serious" horsey people that have seen my daughter's 16.2 ex racer have called her a nice "little" mare but she doesn't feel that way to me, because I am nervous of her. To me, she's like a tank on energy drinks, and she sounds a lot more quirky and high maintainence than this boy too. Please give him a chance at least.


----------



## martlin (2 June 2010)

Is that a no then?
I don't overestimate my abilities, I offered to take him of your hands as I thought that is what you want?


----------



## TallyHo123 (2 June 2010)

How many big, old tb's really end up in a loving forever home ? 

Lots!! 


Your saying you don't want to just pass the 'problem' on, I wouldn't even say it was a problem. Probles are horses who are agressive, rear, bolt on roads etc.
I took on a horse who did have 'problems' such as not being able to go in the stable or get your head kicked in, smashed through fences, wouldn't let a vet/farrier/saddle fitter anywhere near, trappled on people etc. 

What your discribing is notproblems it's little quirks that I am sure at least 1 horse on every yard has.

It really sadens me that you actually don't care what happens to him, poor horse


----------



## Weezy (2 June 2010)

QR:

Bonny I think you are being very sensible.  The ONLY way that we can assure a horse's future is to have it PTS, no other option is 100% safeguarded.  I would suggest you stick him on Project Horses for a month and if he doesn't sell then you can say you have tried and send him off to Potters or similar.  It is an incredibly un-British thing to do, and I know that my opinion on these things appalls people on here, but if his future is important to you (or the wellbeing of a possible new owner) then PTS is the right option.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

Thank you Weezy, it's a hard decision to make but I think you are right and looking back over the years I've sold tb's it's what I should have done in the past.  Alot of people are not being realisitic about what does happen to these horses and I would include myself in that but this time I want to do the right thing and I think that is to have him pts.


----------



## Weezy (2 June 2010)

At the end of the day only YOU can make the decision about what to do with YOUR horse.  There are plenty of people on here who admire those who take the hard decisions, believe me, they just don't come out and get counted as they are always shot down, but there are always more who think that it is abhorrent to put a horse down...your horse, your decision, your conscience, not anyone else's 

Best of luck with it all, just remember that you know best and when push comes to shove you might not be able to do it, but there is no shame in that either!


----------



## Minxie (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			he's not the kind of horse that's likely to have a happy ending ......
		
Click to expand...

Where as a bullet to the brain is the disney ended we all dream of.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

That's what happens to them all sooner or later, the world isn't full of fields of happy retired tb's in loving homes.  How many horses have you known who just died of old age ?


----------



## jack9 (2 June 2010)

Weezy said:



			QR:

Bonny I think you are being very sensible.  The ONLY way that we can assure a horse's future is to have it PTS, no other option is 100% safeguarded.  I would suggest you stick him on Project Horses for a month and if he doesn't sell then you can say you have tried and send him off to Potters or similar.  It is an incredibly un-British thing to do, and I know that my opinion on these things appalls people on here, but if his future is important to you (or the wellbeing of a possible new owner) then PTS is the right option.
		
Click to expand...

i agree 100%

very sad situation but its the only way to  safeguard a horses future.  

sorry to say but tb's are common and can pick them up for next to nothing with minimal vices - so one like this with 'issues' isnt going to be one homed easily (especially that with his size too).


----------



## blueneonrainbow (2 June 2010)

I think bonny is only Reading the replies they want to read. Martlin has offered to take this poor horse off your hands and I hope this does happen for the sake of the horse. I cannot comprehend someone caring so little about what happens to a horse they own and putting down a horse that is sound and has no major behavioural problems. So what if you don't like the horse ... Plenty of otherswould have him and be glad to give him field space. It appear martlin is one of those people.


----------



## skint1 (2 June 2010)

Weezy said:



			QR:

Bonny I think you are being very sensible.  The ONLY way that we can assure a horse's future is to have it PTS, no other option is 100% safeguarded.  I would suggest you stick him on Project Horses for a month and if he doesn't sell then you can say you have tried and send him off to Potters or similar.  It is an incredibly un-British thing to do, and I know that my opinion on these things appalls people on here, but if his future is important to you (or the wellbeing of a possible new owner) then PTS is the right option.
		
Click to expand...

Im not appalled, I realise that sometimes that is the only right answer. I was just confused because bonny originally said she would like to try and find him a home, and she had knowledeable people offering to give him a chance, perhaps I read it wrong.


----------



## Chestnuttymare (2 June 2010)

This is ridiculous and frustrating, why are people still advocating being pts when Martlin has offered to take him and give him a home for life? Bonny, she is even offering you money for  him. Why would you prefer to pts rather than sell him to a home for life. Especially as you originally said she was willing to give him away to an experienced home, now she has one, as serious one and £50 into the bargain.  Makes no sense to me. Please give this horse a chance!!!


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

I don't think that was a serious offer ! I don't know her or her me or the horse. I'm not looking for anyone to take the horse as they feel sorry for him ! He's not a poor horse, he's fine, anyone looking for a horse to rescue should try a charity, lots of horses need a good home.


----------



## Minxie (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			How many horses have you known who just died of old age ?
		
Click to expand...

Very few for sure.  

But then I know of none that have been destroyed because their owner just couldn't be arsed.


----------



## Chestnuttymare (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			That's what happens to them all sooner or later, the world isn't full of fields of happy retired tb's in loving homes.  How many horses have you known who just died of old age ?
		
Click to expand...



Most of the horses I have known have been pts, but at an advanced age and because of ill health or an accident,  having lived the latter part of their lives in loving homes . Not because someone decided they were too big or unloveable at a relatively young age.

Martlin isn't 'looking' for a horse to rescue, she has made you an offer because she would prefer to give the horse a chance. Why are you so determined to pts now when initially  you said you wanted to give him away? Vet the home, as you would if you had advertised him free to good home and if you think she is on the level and experienced enough then do the deal.  Surely you have nothing to lose.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

Arsed to do what exactly ?


----------



## skint1 (2 June 2010)

Why not find out first if it was serious? Then if it was, maybe see if you could meet them, go to their place, watch them ride, whatever you need to do, and if it turns out it was all bluff at least you gave it a try.

I personally am not having a go,  I can understand your logic in not wanting him to end up in a bad place but I really feel you're jumping the gun here.At my daughter's yard there are ex racers much worse behaved than you describe, they go out and do stuff and have nice lives, no one is planning to dump them anywhere, they seem pretty happy to me.

Ultimately it is your choice to make and live with, and I wouldn't judge you either way, but if it were me I would at least give it a try.


----------



## martlin (2 June 2010)

I'm not looking for a rescue, neither am I looking for a quick buck. I offered to take him of your hands as I thought that is what you want and I have the space/can afford to keep one more.
You described the horse as healthy, just difficult - that has never been a problem for me.
What else do I need to know? It's 16.3 TB, 12 yo, gelding, it's stroppy and it needs a home.
I thought you wanted to find an alternative to euthanasia for him, but apparently that's not the case - fair enough.
I have a yardfull of horses, some of them are ''special'' - they tend to stay forever with me, the less challenging I tend to produce and sell to suitable homes, I can actually be arsed...


----------



## Spudlet (2 June 2010)

Weezy, surely by that logic no one would ever sell any horse? 

OP, if you want to shoot it, fine, it's your horse - I think you made your mind up ages ago anyway. I don't think it's your only option by a long way but it's your choice.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

Sorry Martlin, the rescue comment wasn't meant for you, I was just fed up with people calling him a poor horse when he's not.


----------



## MissMincePie&Brandy (2 June 2010)

A lot of people would love him. Take me for example. My TB (the bay in my sig) is a 17.2 ex racehorse.  

I'm not hugely competitive anymore, but I still wanted something that I wouldn't get bored riding and my boy suits me down to the ground. He's not a novice ride, but I wouldn't want a horse that was. It's been incredibly rewarding seeing his muscle development and his character change as I've worked with him and built him up, and he'll stay with me forever now.  I think there are lots of people like me who would love a horse like the one you have.


----------



## skint1 (2 June 2010)

^ As the mother of an owner of a difficult horse, I would at least meet Martlin, she comes across well. What have you got to lose?


----------



## Serenity087 (2 June 2010)

Sounds like my ideal horse.

Which is why I have to wonder if he's even real.  I mean, cry cry cry, I need to have a healthy horse PTS, get offers of homes for him, oh no, I really must shoot him..

Weezy - I agree with everything you say, but in this instance something stinks about the OP, and unless she's waiting for Martlin to get worried and start offering more money so she can make a quick buck, I'm not sure said horse is even real.

The end.


----------



## bonny (2 June 2010)

What ?? when I have ever said that ? I don't feel I need to justify anything I've said but get real, I've never been looking for the sympathy vote either for myself or for the horse and I certainly am not interested in money for him. Where do you get these ideas from ?
Say what you like but at least make sense .....I was asking about the ethical question of what to do with a horse like this nothing else.


----------



## skint1 (2 June 2010)

Ethical answer:
Make sure he is in good health (which I am not saying he isn't) be honest about his issues and if you come across someone who can deal with him at least keep an open mind about it.


----------



## the ginger one (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Arsed to do what exactly ?
		
Click to expand...

To advertise him, ask around if someone wants him, send him to the sales, anything to give him a loving home!!!!!!! Surely thats what you want after all?!!!  

But no, its more like 'i have a perfectly healthy horse that many people would love to own, but i can't be bothered to do anything about selling him so i'll just shoot him instead' thats the general message your sending here. 

And he is a poor horse as you're considering killing him just because you cant be bothered to do something about it!!!!!!!!


----------



## brighteyes (2 June 2010)

Just give the thing to Martlin and leave it be.  If you have been around them that long and know your arse from your elbow and everywhere else, why didn't you just have him shot and say nothing?  Why do you need permission from us - or an argument against doing it. 

The answer is that yes, somebody could manage him and give him a home.  Conversely, to get him off your conscience, you are perfectly entitled to have him shot.

Your call, just get on with it, please.


----------



## Booboos (2 June 2010)

I think OP is having a really hard time on this thread. There are quite a few things I would agree with her (him?) on:

- putting a horse to sleep is not bad for the horse, nor does it comromise its welfare. Horses do not dread death nor have regrets about it. A horse whose future is not guarranteed, may well be better off dead.

- a large, quirky horse without any particular talent may well be difficult to re-home, especially in this market. I appreciate a lot of people put up with a lot from their horses, but this is quite different from setting out to buy another difficult horse. If this wasn't true we wouldn't have at least one post a week from someone who wants to return a difficult horse they have bought. In any case, the fact that these great homes exist is quite different from the OP's chances of finding one for her horse - as has been said a million times on this forum, however hard you try as a seller, things can go wrong. 

- giving the horse to someone who replied to a thread may not be the most sensible thing to do. I don't mean to disparage anyone who has offered a home, or question their intentions, but I would not give away a horse unseen to someone I had never met. At least one person who has offered a home has also posted claiming to be a total beginner, so clearly a bad horse/rider match here!


----------



## Chestnuttymare (2 June 2010)

quote 'giving the horse to someone who replied to a thread may not be the most sensible thing to do. I don't mean to disparage anyone who has offered a home, or question their intentions, but I would not give away a horse unseen to someone I had never met. At least one person who has offered a home has also posted claiming to be a total beginner, so clearly a bad horse/rider match here! 
__________________

fair enough but surely she could vet the home in the same way as she would if it was someone answering an ad in an equine mag. Obviously not someone who was a complete novice.


----------



## Happy Horse (2 June 2010)

This is an odd post as other than being big and a bit awkward there doesn't sound like there is anything wrong with the horse.  Is he dangerous, does he kick, rear, bolt?  If not and you just want rid of him, why not offer him to the local hunt.  He may thrive on hunting and proper hard work and handling and if not they have the facility to PTS with minimum fuss.

I'd far rather see dangeour or unwell horses PTS than passed on but a fit, healthy horse I believe should be given a chance.


----------



## cbmcts (2 June 2010)

Ok, as an owner who has a physically healthy 14 yo at retirement livery I can understand where the OP is coming from - mine is very nervous and is actually an easy ride if you can give him confidence but is a bit of a prat to handle.

The reason he is retired is that I can't ride him, he smashed my confidence and vice versa and while he will NEVER be for sale, I did try loaning him. TBH, the kind of people who can cope with him aren't interested - they have their pick of nicer, easier horses as they can "improve" them and the ones who were interested in mine seemed to have the attitude that I was either making things up 'cos I was a numpty/scared of him (freely admit that riding him terrified me but his antics on the ground were never a problem for me) or they fell for the flashy Section D, chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail and paces to die for!

I found out the hard way, or should I say my poor horse did, that people really overestimate their abilities - after all 20 years riding on easy, well mannered ponies sadly doesn't qualify you to handle 600kg of panicking horse who has only got into that state because you haven't realised that he is scared in time to reassure him. Too late to calm him down/give confidence when he's sweating like a pig and/or tanking around loose having a breakdown. 

While I have no doubt that there is a good home out there somewhere for him, he's really not that bad, I personally have decided that if I cannot keep him, he will be shot. End of. I don't feel I can take the risk that he could be passed on, after all there a lot of much easier horses struggling to find a good home.

I'm certain a lot of people here (as do in RL but none of them are prepared to go near him) will disagree with me and call me hard/heartless but quite frankly, he is my responsibility and I will safeguard his future in the only definite way I can.


----------



## hellsdarkrose (2 June 2010)

bonny said:



			I'm not coldhearted and certainly not ignorant !
I'm trying to be realisitic and struggling with the decision, helpful replies welcome but no more like that !
It's a big problem with unwanted tb's
		
Click to expand...

People have been helpful though and have advised you to advertise the horse. He certainly doesn't sound unsaleable or quite the level of problem you seem to see him as.

There are many childs ponies who sound worse and I think he would make someone a lovely little project horse.

He is also neither too old at 12 as I would say he is still in his prime and he isn't too tall at 16.3hh as he would be the ideal size for me if I had the experience to take him on.


----------



## cbmcts (2 June 2010)

Anyway the point of my extreeeeeeeeeeemly long post was that the chances of a "difficult" horse not being passed on are slim - people might believe all they are telling you at the time but when the brown stuff hits the fan, they often get rid especially if they haven't had the horse long.

After all, we've all advised people on here to do the same - send them back, no shame in admitting that you can't cope, meant to be fun etc etc.....and we hope that they will tell the truth when selling on but will they?

Too many horses, not enough homes let alone truly good ones for the less desirable, quirky, difficult ones

I don't believe that PTS is the easy option, it's the bl**dy difficult one, IMHO the easier option is to wave the trailer off with nice fuzzy thoughts about happy ever after.....

BTW, truly don't mean offence to anyone but I've had years of abuse from people who can't imagine that I really would have a handsome, sound horse shot - cos that's cruel isn't it?  Yeah right, it's not cruel to risk having them pass pillar to post though.


----------



## martlin (2 June 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			Weezy - I agree with everything you say, but in this instance something stinks about the OP, and unless she's waiting for Martlin to get worried and start offering more money so she can make a quick buck, I'm not sure said horse is even real.

The end.
		
Click to expand...

No chance of me getting worried I'm afraid, I'm not a sucker for an emotional blackmail. If the OP wishes to shoot the horse, let him/her get on with. 
I made a mistake in interpreting their post as a search for an alternative, that's all.
I'm neither pro nor against euthanising said horse.


----------



## Echo Bravo (2 June 2010)

Have him shot. Then you needn't worry about him.


----------



## JenTaz (2 June 2010)

im so lost, you think the horse isnt loveable, you think the horse isnt special, you think the horse is too big and too old, YOU MAY NOT THINK that the horse is able to do anything but have you ever actually used your head and thought of how many people on here have already said, that he could be sold, and  that it doesnt always matter what YOU think.

its what the buyer, or the person you give the horse to thinks, if you have a sh$t attitude about the horse you will never get rid of it, many people buy problem horses and can give them a horse for life as the quirks they have are the things that keep the owners interested, maybe you should give him to a charity at least that way someone will LOVE him for who HE IS

(*sorry about the capitals just trying to emphasise what i am on about*)


----------



## blueneonrainbow (2 June 2010)

You may not be looking for the sympathy vote but the horse is getting it from me, and I called it a poor horse because it's got an owner (if horse even exists) who would rather shoot it than try and find it a home who would appreciate it. Seems you didnt get the reply you wanted  - i.e everyone saying they think killing it is the best thing to do. 

You have told one or two people to get off the thread simply for stating their opinion as it's different from your own and therefore not worth listening to. You have rejected every other viable alternative without giving any reasons why they are such terrible alternatives to having this probably fictional horse shot. I dont suppose it exists, otherwise any owner who really was torn in two by this decision would be only too glad to have someone offer to take it off their hands and give it a good home. Just reads as though you're trying to justify to yourself that the horse isnt worth the time and effort and would be better off dead. 

Who  knows, he may make a fantastic hack or riding horse if given the time, patience and input to helping him to develop. There is a horse at my yard who is an ex racer, about 10 years old and 16.1hh with far worse problems than the one described - dont know how many times it's owner has been thrown off it, but you know what, she keeps getting back on it and she is starting to see real results.


----------



## BrynThePony (2 June 2010)

I bought Mr W as a 17hh, 16yr old TB, bowed tendon, previous owners a bit scared of him, couldn't hack on his own as he was scared of everything...........given a bit of time and understanding, we had 6 years of hacking and having fun together; he's now been happily retired for 4 years and looks fantastic.
He wasn't the perfect horse but he was perfect for me, there is a difference !


----------



## Booboos (2 June 2010)

chestnuttymare said:



			quote 'giving the horse to someone who replied to a thread may not be the most sensible thing to do. I don't mean to disparage anyone who has offered a home, or question their intentions, but I would not give away a horse unseen to someone I had never met. At least one person who has offered a home has also posted claiming to be a total beginner, so clearly a bad horse/rider match here! 
__________________

fair enough but surely she could vet the home in the same way as she would if it was someone answering an ad in an equine mag. Obviously not someone who was a complete novice.
		
Click to expand...

Of course she could, but for one thing, the OP seems to be criticised for not jumping at the chance of giving this horse unseen, untried, unvetted to a person she does not know  and, even if she were to vet potential buyers it is really, really tough to pick out the right person. I assume this is the kind of thing the OP was asking about: are these kind of right buyers out there and do we think she (he?) would be able to find them.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the OP would have to be very lucky to find the right person. This doesn't mean that she (he?) shouldn't try, but I think she would have to be extremely cautious.


----------



## Daisy2 (2 June 2010)

Weezy said:



			QR:

Bonny I think you are being very sensible.  The ONLY way that we can assure a horse's future is to have it PTS, no other option is 100% safeguarded.  


There is no future when a horse is put to sleep, my motto is where there is hope there should be life.

I am surprised that a number of people have offered to help but no take up??

I have not read all the posts but enough to know that most of them are ignored. Surely this horse needs a chance with someone willing to take on the challenge and with so many offering it would be wrong to PTS very sad indeed
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Patches (2 June 2010)

Be careful....my post was just removed and I got a warning for advertising him.

I can't see how this post is any different really!


----------



## Chestnuttymare (2 June 2010)

Well, this is now pages of views, opinions, offers etc. I think we should let it lie now, it is just winding people up. The OP has a good offer to re-home the horse and it is up to her whether she sees Martlins offer as genuine and treats her like she would any prospective home and makes up her mind whether she wants her to have him or have the horse shot. Personally I think she has already made up her mind and a a perfectly healthy horse who is a bit too big(??) and maybe a bit of a handful in the wrong hands will be pts. Just not sure what the purpose of her starting this thread was really. Here is a line from her first post...

'but can't think that's it's better to pts a healthy horse rather than give it a chance of a future' and the title of the post is 'chance of a good home?'

now she seems to have changed her mind and seems to think that it is better to have it shot.

So those of us who have said it could have a decent future and given examples of where it has worked out for various horses and people, and even offered the horse a home for life,  obviously haven't fought the horse's corner very well. 
I can't see that there is much else anyone can do, it is her horse to do with as she pleases. I just wonder what the vet or the huntsman will say when he asks why he has to shoot this horse. Maybe she will tell them it is too big or unloveable and they will accept that as a valid reason.


----------



## Flame_ (2 June 2010)

If this horse is sound and healthy, send it for sales livery somewhere they will show it off. The chance of it finding a good home depends on how useful it is and on its value. If someone can display the horse as useful with a decent price tag, its every chance of finding a good home. If you give it away as a reject, its chances are slim to none.


----------



## brighteyes (2 June 2010)

Patches said:



			Be careful....my post was just removed and I got a warning for advertising him.

I can't see how this post is any different really!
		
Click to expand...

Nope me either!  Perhaps put another one up threatening to shoot him because who would want a slightly unbomproof super second pony?


----------



## Patches (2 June 2010)

brighteyes said:



			Nope me either!  Perhaps put another one up threatening to shoot him because who would want a slightly unbomproof super second pony?
		
Click to expand...

PMSL!

The most amusing thing is that my post was removed because someone took exception to it and hit the moderator button. Admin told me that when I asked them why they'd singled my post out. 

The didn't....they do not read the boards but allow the members to police themselves and only look into posts that are reported to their attention.


----------



## Tiffany (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			I'm not coldhearted and certainly not ignorant !
I'm trying to be realisitic and struggling with the decision, helpful replies welcome but no more like that !
It's a big problem with unwanted tb's
		
Click to expand...

I don't know how experienced you are Bonny but a horse that isn't suitable for one person could be someone else's dream horse. Why not advertise him on the project horse website where people expect horses with quirks? 
With what you have said about him he just needs an experienced, sympathetic rider who's happy to spend time getting to know him. Unless he is really dangerous please don't PTS.


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

I, like chestnuttymare, think it is time to leave OP to shoot the horse and be done with it, that's obviously what they want.
Still baffles me what the whole post was supposed to be, but never mind.
The offer still stands, but I'm not holding my breath that I will be taken up on it.


----------



## Rachaelpink (3 June 2010)

12 isn't old and 16.3hh doesn't make the horse a giant. If there are no serious unrectifiable behavioural problems or medical conditions then I don't see how you can justify putting a healthy horse who could potentially lead a nice life, if you can find the right home for, it to sleep.


----------



## moses06 (3 June 2010)

Stop whinging and groaning on here and go and do something - if you are going to shoot it, then get on with it, if not rehome it - I know plenty of people who would like a horse like that......this post smacks of TROLL to me.


----------



## Amymay (3 June 2010)

My yard is full of ex-race horses.  Some big, some small.  Most raced with some success - and are now thoroughly enjoying life doing different jobs.


----------



## Brandy (3 June 2010)

Have to say I got bored with the bickering several pages ago, although can see why the thread has gone the way it has.

The OP original question - 

Chances of a good home??

Yes, plenty. If I no longer had my old horse (loony, ex polo, nut case) I would have him or something like him like a shot. I have never paid much (more than £500) for any of my horses as they are 'difficult'.

Current oldie, aquired at 18 (yes, thats 18!!) and kept as hacking horse for 12 years (yes, 12 years!!) 

Like yours, he will not stand at junctions. He was a nightmare to turn out for about 8 years, jogged, jiffled, pratted about, danced, only canters sideways, leaps, farts is mega strong or no mouth at all, was old (18 is kinda old) and was not able to jump, show, XC, dressage or anythign. Junst hack and sponsered rides.

However, he looks THE BUSINESS!! He's a gorgeous boy, and lively and fun. I don't want a horse to compete bt nor do I want and ugly cart horse donkey type thing either (sorry to cart horses, no offence) 

So again, in short, yes he could find a good home. For life.


----------



## applecart14 (3 June 2010)

I joined in towards the start of this post and then got told to bugg*r off by the OP.  But I still stick by my original thoughts that either a) the OP is trying to justify herself and wants people to say "Oh yes I agree with you" or b) is trying to get in next weeks copy of H&H as the person who has had the most replies to her post.

Either way why give her the satisfaction. She blantantly would not know the truth if it jumped out and bit her on the nose and she will not answer your question, but instead skirts around it.

Can't we focus on someone that needs our help instead of someone who doesn't want to listen.  Loads of people have said they will take the horse off her, so why does she not show any interest in this option.  If I had a horse in her situation I would be grateful for any interest shown and the horse would be on its way to its new home by now.

Bonny you are impossible to please my gal.


----------



## Kat (3 June 2010)

There is a win win solution here. 

Bonny, PM the people who have said that they might be interested in him, exchange mobile numbers and have a chat, if any of them sound like they might be able to cope with him, invite them over to meet him. Ask them to bring proof of ID and references. If they cope with him loan him to them for a year. 

If it works out sell him for £1 after a year and you have got rid of him to a decent home where is future is as secure as possible and you can say hand on heart that you have done your best by him. 

If it doesn't work shoot him as originally planned, but again hand on heart you can say you tried. 

I don't have a problem with PTS horses with an uncertain and difficult future but I just don't think this horse is one of those. He could have a useful future. Lots of horses aren't ideal for their job and are a bit difficult but still have happy lives. The ex-racer I used to share died of old age in her field after many years in an experienced and caring home after she was virtually given away because she was useless. She wasn't the best hack and wasn't easy to handle but she did the job and was enjoyed by her owner, even in her later years when she was retired and kept as a companion to their lead rein pony. Your boy could have that sort of life.


----------



## bonny (3 June 2010)

Thanks for the suggestion Katt but the problem with loaning is that the chances are he would come back and I'm really not in the position to do that.  Like I say he's already been away and been returned and his issues are alot worse now. He's also not suitable as a companion, he dosen't get on well with other horses.  There's been alot of people jumping on me for starting this thread and I'm wishing I'd never posted in the first place now but it is a genuine problem not just for this horse but for alot like him and there's no easy answer.


----------



## Spudlet (3 June 2010)

Have you thought of speaking to the local hunt? They might know of someone looking for a hunter who wouldn't mind the odd quirk.


----------



## *hic* (3 June 2010)

For this horse there is an easy answer. If you were prepared to shoot him when you started the thread and you don't want to give him to Martlin (who has the facilities and the experience to deal with him unlike at least one of the others who thinks they could cope) then just book him in to have him shot.

Then you have two courses of action re this forum. Either post to say you've taken the decision and he is now in a better place and take the flak from those who believe you were wrong to do so or don't come back unless you've abandoned your current username and started up as a new member and say nothing further of it.


----------



## superpony (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Thanks for the suggestion Katt but the problem with loaning is that the chances are he would come back and I'm really not in the position to do that.  Like I say he's already been away and been returned and his issues are alot worse now. He's also not suitable as a companion, he dosen't get on well with other horses.  There's been alot of people jumping on me for starting this thread and I'm wishing I'd never posted in the first place now but it is a genuine problem not just for this horse but for alot like him and there's no easy answer.
		
Click to expand...

I don't understand why you don't give him to martlin if you want him to find a good home?

I know the problems with tb's i have one myself who isn't exactly easy, but there are lots of people out there who are experienced riders and handlers who don't want a plod and want something more exciting.


----------



## benson21 (3 June 2010)

Bonny, can you just point out to us all exactly what this horse's problems are? TBH I think its difficult to give good advice until the list of problems are shown.  If he is dangerous then the best course of action could be pts.  But if it is vices, habits etc then there are people that would love him. Why did you take the horse on in the first place? What was it about him that drew you to him?
Putting a horse to sleep is not an easy option, and you would have to live with the feeling that you decided to end his life because you found him too much, when there are so obviously other options.
I bought a horse a while ago that we found too much, and he seemed to have many problems, and yes if I am honest I did have the thought that it would be easier to just have him pts.  But we didnt, we found a new rider for him and it was working out just fine until we were all involved in an accident and then we had to make the decision to pts, because of his injuries.  Hardest decision I have had to make.
I cant help but notice you seem to only be responding to people that are saying what you want to hear, but please respond to this, and just give us the details of what problems tou feel he has.
Best wishes.


----------



## bonny (3 June 2010)

Benson, I certainly don't think pts is an easy option or easy to live with if you go down that route.  I've had to have horses destroyed in the past and had horses die after accidents but I also think it's part of having horses that somethimes you have to make that decision.
Horses will live along time and if people have the facilities and money to keep them in retirement then that's fine but I'm not in that situation. Saying that I do have an old, aggressive pony that will never leave us, I would never find a suitable home for him and despite his grumbiness he's very much loved.
This is a very large, middle aged tb who was bred to race and has done for many years.  He's not suitable as a hacking horse, not an easy horse to handle or keep and I genuinely can't see what else he could do.  In the wrong hands he would be a nightmare. I wish now we hadn't had him back, but we did and it's now a problem where he goes. I'm getting critised for wondering what is the best course of action and maybe someone will turn up who wants him but I can't see why apart from the chance of having a free horse.


----------



## JenJ (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			I'm getting critised for wondering what is the best course of action and maybe someone will turn up who wants him but I can't see why apart from the chance of having a free horse.
		
Click to expand...

No, you're being criticised for ignoring plenty of good and helpful suggestions. Someone has turned up who wants him - martlin. And not for the chance of having a free horse, as she's offered to pay.


----------



## Kat (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Thanks for the suggestion Katt but the problem with loaning is that the chances are he would come back and I'm really not in the position to do that.  Like I say he's already been away and been returned and his issues are alot worse now. He's also not suitable as a companion, he dosen't get on well with other horses.  There's been alot of people jumping on me for starting this thread and I'm wishing I'd never posted in the first place now but it is a genuine problem not just for this horse but for alot like him and there's no easy answer.
		
Click to expand...

You haven't read my post. 

I said, loan him as a last chance to someone who is aware of his issues. If it doesn't work out PTS. You don't even have to have him back, you could arrange for him to be destroyed at the loaners yard when they give their notice or for him to be transported direct to the hunt kennels. 

There is not loss whatsoever to you in this scenario, bar a few hours time checking the loaner out. If the loan works after a period of six months or a year then sell him for £1 and he is out of your hair for good but you have minimised the chances of him being passed on. 

That is the easy answer, I've given it to you, you have nothing to lose, the horse has everything to lose and the potential loaner/buyer potentially gains a horse that they have fun with.


----------



## Minxie (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			He's not suitable as a hacking horse
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps not for you but there are people on this forum who have shown they've the skill to turn that around. 



bonny said:



			In the wrong hands he would be a nightmare
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps he's already in the wrong hands.



bonny said:



			maybe someone will turn up who wants him
		
Click to expand...

There are people who do want them so your point is moot



bonny said:



			but I can't see why apart from the chance of having a free horse.
		
Click to expand...

And what exactly is wrong with that. 

I THINK THIS HORSE IN INSURED AND YOUR JUST LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE TO HAVE HIM SHOT AND CLAIM THE CASH.  

That's totally fine but you should at least be honest about your motives.


----------



## Kat (3 June 2010)

Bonny, if you are genuine can you answer the following questions, several people have asked them and they really are pertinent!

1. 



benson21 said:



			Bonny, can you just point out to us all exactly what this horse's problems are?
		
Click to expand...

2. 



benson21 said:



			Why did you take the horse on in the first place? What was it about him that drew you to him?
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Bills (3 June 2010)

Why won't you just let Martlin have him??


----------



## bonny (3 June 2010)

Minxie - totally amazing the conclusions some people have reached but you win the award for the daftest ! No, he's not insured and even if he was an insurance company would hardly pay out !


----------



## Bills (3 June 2010)

Why didnt you answer my question??

Why won't you let Martlin have him?? Im confused?!!!


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

Oh, bonny, just shoot the bliming thing, you've been dithering over it and wasting people's time for much longer than this thread has been going on, haven't you?


----------



## starbar (3 June 2010)

I'm getting more confused by this thread the longer it goes on.

I don't understand why you don't spell out exactly what his problems are?  Is he dangerous?  You keep ignoring the posts with constructive questions/comments on and rising to others?

You obviously don't really rate or like the horse, thats fine, but as far as I can tell someone with a bit of patience could have some fun with him.  A friend of mine had what I considered to be a very unloveable horse, ears back in the stable, stubborn, nappy, BIG, didn't get on that well with others horses but she loved him.  

I just don't understand why you don't spend a few quid on trying to advertise him and see what happens.  All this talk of PTS when he doesn't seem that bad is making me a bit uncomfortable


----------



## NELSON11 (3 June 2010)

Appears to me like we have gone round every bush in every county on this post and mostly for a pointless post, judging on the evasions going on to questions directed at you. At least speak to the people who have shown interest. The right person may be out there for him

I don't see the point in posting if not prepared to take it further. IMO a complete waste of time although will be highlighted as the most replies against you Bonny in HHO this week.

I do hope you sort the lad out one way or another.


----------



## Kat (3 June 2010)

Bonny, hey bonny, you still haven't answered the two questions in my post!!!! 

People would be far more sympathetic if you answered questions and responded to reasonable posts rather than just picking fights.


----------



## horses13 (3 June 2010)

Give this horse to someonethat actually likes horses and get out of the business. Take up dancing or something where a life is not in your hands.
Sounds like a normal ex-racer to me. A horse who would fit into 1000's of loving knowledgable homes.


----------



## G&T (3 June 2010)

Arrrggghh... page 16.... aaaaaaand FINISHED!!!  But... what the... still no solution to this very bizarre problem and the only questions that I wanted to know the answer to (see Katt's post) still not answered!! That's god knows how many minutes of my life I've wasted  Not on really Bonny


----------



## benson21 (3 June 2010)

Ok, you are obviously not gonna answer any questions you dont like. If someone else posted on here this next sentance, how would you reply bonny?

I have just had my horse put to sleep.  He was a big x race horse that had a few quirks and I didnt think anyone would have a use to him so I had him shot.  I had offers from people to home him, but didnt think they were serious so didnt bother looking into it further. I didnt advertise him on any sites because I couldnt see why anyone would want him. 

Did I do the right thing?


----------



## horses13 (3 June 2010)

It can be right to have a horse put to sleep for various reasons.
 I had an ex-racer pts for her own sake, bless her. It broke my heart but it was right for her and i did it because i loved her.
 This horse sounds like many others that would settle well in a knowledgable home that likes this type of horse.


----------



## bonny (3 June 2010)

Benson, he has been advertised


----------



## bexwarren24 (3 June 2010)

Are we allowed to see the ad?


----------



## Bills (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Benson, he has been advertised
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm really??!! 

Soooo not giving him to Martlin then??!! lol! 

Very strange situation this....


----------



## TS_ (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Benson, he has been advertised
		
Click to expand...

Yes but was this the time before when he came back? Just because there wasn't the right person out there for him at that moment in time doesn't mean there won't be now, as has been proven on this thread


----------



## G&T (3 June 2010)

WHAT'S EVEN WRONG WITH HIM? You just keep saying "I don't see why anyone would want him really" - OK so he's hardly a 10k horse but you still get perfectly experienced knowledgeable people out there who won't pay £££s for a horse just on principle - you've been offered a solution why won't you take it?


----------



## bonny (3 June 2010)

I give up ! It's just going round in circles now and getting too personal which is pointless. Thanks for the constructive replies and to the people who have sent pm's.


----------



## benson21 (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Benson, he has been advertised
		
Click to expand...

Oh right. And you got no replies?  How much was he advertised for?


----------



## reindeerlover (3 June 2010)

Blah blah blah blah blah (thought I'd offer something constructive).


----------



## Kat (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			I give up ! It's just going round in circles now and getting too personal which is pointless. Thanks for the constructive replies and to the people who have sent pm's.
		
Click to expand...


It is only going round in circles because you don't ANSWER THE FLAMING QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Seriously, answer the two straight forward questions posed by me and Benson and a few others. 

1. What is actually wrong with him?

2. Why did you acquire him in the first place?

It is very simple and there are solutions, I've suggested one, but you ignored me........ I'm beginning to think you don't want a solution other than PTS because you can't handle the thought that someone else might be able to make something of him where you have failed.


----------



## applecart14 (3 June 2010)

Katt my sentiments exactly.  Talk about evasion Bonny.  If you were a horse you'd be a nightmare to school!

She never answered my question about the blood bank.


----------



## bonny (3 June 2010)

Think what you like .....you will anyway


----------



## JenTaz (3 June 2010)

just put the horse down, after reading this whole thread it would be the best thing for him as you bonny dont give a toss about what happens to this poor horse, and i for one, really feel sorry for him as you dont seem to want to give him a chance to be loved by someone. 

many people have asked what is wrong with the horse and you just go round the question maybe if you cared, you would say to help you get the advice you came on here to get, and you wonder why people are getting annoyed as your just being ignorant to others on the forum by ignoring what they have said.

martlin has also offered the horse a home which surely is important if you want the horse gone, and would be cheaper and better for the horse than ending his life when he could have a future with a sympathetic owner to what he has been through in his life!


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Think what you like .....you will anyway
		
Click to expand...

That is just charming
We come to conclusions based on speculation because you refuse to give us any information to go on...
Just shoot it and be done with it!
Happy now? That's what you wanted us to tell you, is it?


----------



## Brandy (3 June 2010)




----------



## bonny (3 June 2010)

No, not really but like I said I give up, everything has got far too personal.


----------



## JenTaz (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			No, not really but like I said I give up, everything has got far too personal.
		
Click to expand...

we all knew you had already given up on the horse as you werent prepared from the word go to give the big horse a chance and to find him a home, and it has got to personal because in my opinion you come across as if you dont care about the horse, so that is your fault you have to present yourself how you want people to see you.


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

What's got to personal?! 
People are offering advice, I've offered a home for the horse - you chose to ignore both!
You started a thread asking for advice, no? Trying to find an alternative to euthanasia. From your description of the horse it does not seem to me that euthanasia is necessary, so people (including me) have advised accordingly - but you just pick post to answer, avoiding questions like a plague...
Mind boggles


----------



## NeedNewHorse (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			No, not really but like I said I give up, everything has got far too personal.
		
Click to expand...

Look in all seriousness this is a forum and sometimes if we feel mad or angry we simply allow that to reflect on how we write, as it doesn't quite seem like real life - but no one is meaning to get personal with you.
We are all dear horse lovers and simply hate the idea of a perfectly healthy horse being pts for no reason. From our point of view you have given tiny little nuggets of information, no real information on the matter and I think this has caused some tention on a hot subject (as we would all like this horse by page 20 to go and find a suitable home)


A lovely member on here (Martlin) has offered to take him. Literally offered to have him at her yard, have you pm'd her? As this would literally be the end of all of your problems?
How is this situation playing our for you?
x


----------



## KitKat_89 (3 June 2010)

!!!

Well that was a jolly read....but I dont have a clue what its all about still!

OP - you should have sold him to martlin when she first offered, she gets on very well with the nutty ones so no worries there! 

and I dont think that anyone has made the thread particularly personal, they are just frustrated as I certainly cant see what you wanted to get out of posting this!


----------



## Kat (3 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Think what you like .....you will anyway
		
Click to expand...

1. You came on here and asked for opinions - don't get shirty because you are receiving some you don't like. 

2. We have to "think what we like" because you aren't telling us the whole story. 

This isn't getting personal, people are actually being pretty restrained with you in the circumstances. You would make it a lot easier though if you engaged in conversation with the people trying to help. My list of questions has expanded, perhaps you would do us all the courtesy of answering them though??? 

1. What is wrong with this horse? 

2. Why/how did you acquire him in the first place given your low opinion of his prospects? 

3. Why not send him to the blood bank? You can always PTS when they have no further use for him and you would be doing a service to other horses. 

4. Why not at least consider Martlin's very kind offer? I don't know her from adam, she may be completely unsuitable but isn't it worth looking into, it will cost you nothing and if it all goes wrong then you can still PTS.


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

heidirusso said:



			A lovely member on here (Martlin) has offered to take him. Literally offered to have him at her yard, have you pm'd her? As this would literally be the end of all of your problems?
How is this situation playing our for you?
x
		
Click to expand...

Glad you think I'm Lovely
I haven't been contacted by bonny... so the situation is not playing out at all, I'm afraid

KitKat! Who do you call nutty? They're all lovely, just lovely!


----------



## KitKat_89 (3 June 2010)

Martlin - They are all absolutely lovely! I wouldnt suggest otherwise  All in their own special ways too - plenty of variety you have


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

kitkat_89 said:



			martlin - they are all absolutely lovely! I wouldnt suggest otherwise  All in their own special ways too - plenty of variety you have 

Click to expand...

pmsl!:d:d:d


----------



## Happy Horse (3 June 2010)

I am wondering what the OP's situation is as this doesn't seem to be the first time she has had issues with rehoming TB's.  If it is such a problem, I'd be questioning why have them in the first place?  Maybe all these are the same horse?

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5316240#post5316240
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5316255#post5316255
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5637718#post5637718
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5457835#post5457835
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=7825957#post7825957
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=7958278#post7958278


----------



## KitKat_89 (3 June 2010)

Oh for goodness sake - if this horse actually exists - then OP seems adament she wants to get rid, but will not even consider offers to take him??? 

Bored now.....

Oh, and ETA: well done HH!


----------



## Amymay (3 June 2010)

Most odd


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

Hmm, it just gets better and better...


----------



## JenTaz (3 June 2010)

im lost in one of the other posts that happy horse? linked us too says that the horse is able to do riding club sounds like the same horse as well in every post that has been liked to... and it says she's in edinburgh so near me.

Bonny what is actually wrong with the horse as my friend is looking for a horse, and she gets bored if they are too simple please tell and it may also help people to understand


----------



## MontyandZoom (3 June 2010)

FWIW I have also offered a home. I am going to uni but I have a lady who rides for me. Since Monty (my BIG OLD tb) died, she has been looking for a horse of her own. Looking for a quirky tb on the cheap.

No answer to my PM!


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

I'm not sure this horse actually exists...


----------



## Chestnuttymare (3 June 2010)

This is still going then is it??

Bonny, I see from the posts happy horse has put up that you are from the Edinburgh area. Did the horse come from a local trainer? if so, which one and who was it that you worked for. 
The reason i ask is that I am from the same sort of area. Our club helps to  re- home ex racers and i am sure that we can do something to help. We have a lot of people with huge experience with these horses. What is his racing name, we have  work riders within the club that might know him and maybe someone can help to figure him out and help you to decide what course of action might be best for him.

I see that Martlins offer still stands too, so you have a few options to consider now. I hope one of them appeals to you.


----------



## muddy boots (3 June 2010)

I have borrowed these questions from Katt (hope you don't mind) and have expanded a bit. Can't find any answers. I think these are questions needed to decide if he has a good future.

1. What is wrong with this horse? Be precise, exactly WHAT does he do (apart from being difficult to mount, which is very common in ex racers - I had one like this) Does he buck? rear? bolt? If so, in what circumstances. 

2. Why/how did you acquire him in the first place given your low opinion of his prospects? 


3. Why not at least consider Martlin's very kind offer? I don't know her from adam, she may be completely unsuitable but isn't it worth looking into, it will cost you nothing.

I agree that there is a wider issue with the number of ex racers. But from my point of view, they make good horses for a low investment in money but high investment in time and care.


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

chestnuttymare said:



			I see that Martlins offer still stands too, so you have a few options to consider now. I hope one of them appeals to you.
		
Click to expand...

I'm seriously considering spending my £50 on some ice cream


----------



## Chestnuttymare (3 June 2010)

martlin said:



			I'm seriously considering spending my £50 on some ice cream

Click to expand...

ohhh could just go a 99


----------



## Kat (3 June 2010)

Katt said:



			1. You came on here and asked for opinions - don't get shirty because you are receiving some you don't like. 

2. We have to "think what we like" because you aren't telling us the whole story. 

This isn't getting personal, people are actually being pretty restrained with you in the circumstances. You would make it a lot easier though if you engaged in conversation with the people trying to help. My list of questions has expanded, perhaps you would do us all the courtesy of answering them though??? 

1. What is wrong with this horse? 

2. Why/how did you acquire him in the first place given your low opinion of his prospects? 

3. Why not send him to the blood bank? You can always PTS when they have no further use for him and you would be doing a service to other horses. 

4. Why not at least consider Martlin's very kind offer? I don't know her from adam, she may be completely unsuitable but isn't it worth looking into, it will cost you nothing and if it all goes wrong then you can still PTS.
		
Click to expand...


Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 
Answer the questions, 

We're all beginning to think this is one big wind up!


----------



## Minxie (3 June 2010)

martlin said:



			Glad you think I'm Lovely

Click to expand...

I thought you were lovely too offering to re-home this horse.  But I didn't like to say in case it went to your head.

I'm telling ya, its an insurance job  

The horse has far to many problems to be re-homed, (remembering it can't go to as a companion cause it doesn't like other horses) she's doing the socially responsible thing and not passing it on to anybody else despite not actually clearly stating what the problems, everybody on horse and hound agrees with her (or so she probably thought when posting) and the kindest thing is to have it shot.  Ching ching 

And if its not insured - not tut tut.  If this horse is as difficult as its claimed then its an accident waiting to happen.


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

I think it's more of a figment of imagination than an insurance job personally, but anything is possible


----------



## jaypeebee (3 June 2010)

Another poster has said what I think and that is the only ways to totally secure a horses future is to either keep it forever or have it shot.  I understand why the op would not give the horse away to someone they do not know on a forum.  If the horse cant or wont be rehomed then having it shot sounds like what the op wants to do.  It is the fate of many failed racehorses and for many it is a blessing.


----------



## skint1 (3 June 2010)

I've just read the links to older posts, I am really confused, she seems to have struggled with finding homes for other horses (all ex racers but different ages) over the last 3 years.

Will an insurance company really pay out if you had a horse pts that had nothing physical wrong with it?


----------



## Minxie (3 June 2010)

jaypeebee said:



			Another poster has said what I think and that is the only ways to totally secure a horses future is to either keep it forever or have it shot.  I understand why the op would not give the horse away to someone they do not know on a forum.  If the horse cant or wont be rehomed then having it shot sounds like what the op wants to do.  It is the fate of many failed racehorses and for many it is a blessing.
		
Click to expand...

In all seriously JPB I don't think many people would argue - although assuming to get a horse in the first place presumably you have to buy it from somewhere and the seller has sold it (therefore not kept it for life).  

I'd imagine most people who sell their horses probably don't have any more knowledge of the prospective buyer than the OP would have of a forum member.  And I think it was Katt who suggested that ways of vetting the forum member etc which made sense.  And definitely for some horses it is a blessing and again I don't think many would argue otherwise.  But there are ways if you care enough about the horse to go checking these out thoroughly - the OP has actually said she doesn't care which is why I feel 'poor horse'.

But the OP has been offered some great suggestions / options etc which is entirely her right to either accept or ignore.


----------



## Minxie (3 June 2010)

skint1 said:



			Will an insurance company really pay out if you had a horse pts that had nothing physical wrong with it?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Skint. That was me just being a bit of a Minx.  I honestly don't know but I'd have thought if there were behavioural issues which could make him dangerous I reckon someone might be able to talk their vet into having him put to sleep in the interests of the horse.  But I honestly don't know if that would be covered. 

However ...........


----------



## Happy Horse (3 June 2010)

skint1 said:



			Will an insurance company really pay out if you had a horse pts that had nothing physical wrong with it?
		
Click to expand...

No, never.


----------



## skint1 (3 June 2010)

Ah thanks for clarifying.


----------



## reindeerlover (3 June 2010)

Happy Horse said:



			No, never.
		
Click to expand...

Plus, even if it has behavioural problems they won't pay out. It's a Vets Fees cover- if no veterinary problem they won't pay. Who mentioned Ice cream??


----------



## cbmcts (3 June 2010)

martlin said:



			I'm seriously considering spending my £50 on some ice cream

Click to expand...

I'll buy the ice cream if you take my fruit loop


----------



## martlin (3 June 2010)

cbmcts said:



			I'll buy the ice cream if you take my fruit loop 

Click to expand...

Deal, but I only have £48.02 as I've already had two 99s


----------



## Puppy (3 June 2010)

Happy Horse said:



			I am wondering what the OP's situation is as this doesn't seem to be the first time she has had issues with rehoming TB's.  If it is such a problem, I'd be questioning why have them in the first place?  Maybe all these are the same horse?

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5316240#post5316240
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5316255#post5316255
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5637718#post5637718
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5457835#post5457835
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=7825957#post7825957
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=7958278#post7958278

Click to expand...

How very bizarre!


----------



## Tinseltoes (3 June 2010)

Give it to a horse sanctuary.


----------



## Happy Horse (3 June 2010)

sharon1959 said:



			Give it to a horse sanctuary.
		
Click to expand...

This is one of the least responsible options.  The sanctuaries are overflowing with horses and ponies in need of rescue from neglect without perfectly healthy horses being dumped in them.


----------



## swellhillcottage (3 June 2010)

cbmcts said:



			Anyway the point of my extreeeeeeeeeeemly long post was that the chances of a "difficult" horse not being passed on are slim - people might believe all they are telling you at the time but when the brown stuff hits the fan, they often get rid especially if they haven't had the horse long.

After all, we've all advised people on here to do the same - send them back, no shame in admitting that you can't cope, meant to be fun etc etc.....and we hope that they will tell the truth when selling on but will they?

Too many horses, not enough homes let alone truly good ones for the less desirable, quirky, difficult ones

I don't believe that PTS is the easy option, it's the bl**dy difficult one, IMHO the easier option is to wave the trailer off with nice fuzzy thoughts about happy ever after.....

BTW, truly don't mean offence to anyone but I've had years of abuse from people who can't imagine that I really would have a handsome, sound horse shot - cos that's cruel isn't it?  Yeah right, it's not cruel to risk having them pass pillar to post though.
		
Click to expand...

Very Well Put .


Sharonxx


----------



## RuthnMeg (3 June 2010)

Good Grief, what a post! Munched through a packet of malteasers, and had 2 cans of ginger beer.. not good!! lol
Firstly, I do feel sorry for said horse.
Secondly, I feel sorry for all the effort by people responding and offering said horse a home.
Thirdly, Don't think anyone has asked to see a photo of said horse... can I be the first please to request a photo?
Fourthly, I did get the impression all bonny wanted to hear was 'shoot the bugger'.
And finally... After all that, I came to the conclusion that this is a wind up and can't possibly be a real problem and my goodness me, didn't we all feed the troll well!!??

Bonny, request from me if ever you can be arsed to read, please wake up and smell the coffee, really nice experienced people ARE out there for said horse and be nice to all those who ARE giving YOU a life line - (if this is real of course!)


----------



## gemin1eye (3 June 2010)

what a ridiculous, attention seeking post, can't believe I actually bothered reading it all when the OP only read half of it


----------



## OneInAMillion (3 June 2010)

heather_bambi said:



			But he is only "unwanted" because you think he is. Plenty of people have already said he sounds their type of horse, or for people they know. If I was looking for a TB I would be looking around that height, as they can be very narrow a smaller type of around 15.2hh can feel like riding a 14hh pony to me! I work at a racing yard and the horses are around 17hh, they definitely feel a lot smaller than that!

I would be looking into finding a home for him, be very honest about him, give it some time and I am sure he will find a nice home. Although it does sound like you have already made the decision. I have no problems with pts a horse that could be past from pillar to post, be sold onto an unsuspecting young rider and causing an accident etc. But from what you have said I know plenty of riders including myself that would enjoy him and his quirks. He sounds like he may suit team chasing for example, or with work could hunt. Lots of people are out looking for the more difficult and challenging horses at the lower end of the market, who wants a 100% perfect horse anyway...it gets boring 

Click to expand...


My friend has a tb that fits this exact description but she is working with him and he is so different!


----------



## bertandbeans (3 June 2010)

I would! Can't tho as am returning to NZ at the end of the year. My last model was an ex racehorse 'free' off the track. It was me or dog food basically. Had him for five years and sold him onto a lovely girl who still emails me to tell me how much she loves him! Be very carefull who you choose. Some people wouldn't value something they got for nothing. 'We won't bother getting his teeth done, he's not worth it'. What about charities that re-home horses? They maybe able to take him for you and re-home him. If not they may be able to offer some valuable advice, having had alot of experience as it were. Good luck freebee horse!


----------



## Chestnuttymare (3 June 2010)

martlin said:



			Deal, but I only have £48.02 as I've already had two 99s

Click to expand...

SEE, I knew that would happen!! I will send you what you spend at the icey. (prays for rubbish weather tomorrow)


----------



## OneInAMillion (3 June 2010)

This is kind of related to this subject. When we got my horse he was an unloveable horse. He is only 15hands and was and still can be extremely hard to handle. He was unloveable because he had no-one to love him. Now we have had him 3 years. I have had pretty much 1 to 1 contact with him and he is a changed horse. 

Still after 3 years and in fact today he will go from walking along to rearing full tilt on the road. Call him dangerous call him aggressive but I know that horse inside out and he is loved.

My point is basically a horse is what you want it to be a lot of the time.
If you don't love it it won't be loveable and if you don't try then there won't be rewards to come with it.


----------



## brighteyes (3 June 2010)

Seems like Bonny Scotland has been trying to offload (these?) horses for three years and this thread is like being in that weird series LOST.  We are going to wake up tomrrow to find we are all dead and this was all a load of imaginary nonsense of unanswered questions...


----------



## rosie fronfelen (4 June 2010)

i think this is a rediculous situation!! 16.3 isnt massive, and a 12 year old is in his prime- to consider putting this horse down is surely a crime? have you tried advertising him/her in HandH, or Hound magazine- i'd say his career would be in hunting being as he has been down that line before.reading between the lines here bugger all has seriously been done to find this poor horse a decent home- try your local hunts, advertise him in your local paper( thats where we found our horse in a million 12 years ago!)put ads everywhere, IF you can be truly bothered-


----------



## JenJ (4 June 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			, IF you can be truly bothered-
		
Click to expand...

I think that's the whole point - she can't


----------



## Kat (4 June 2010)

JenJ said:



			I think that's the whole point - she can't
		
Click to expand...

Good point well made, it seems bonny would rather winge about how difficult to rehome this horse is in umpteen different threads than expend a similar amount of energy doing something useful about rehoming him. 

Not once have we heard her telling us what efforts she has gone to to rehome him and find a suitable home, just a load of moaning and a few posts on here. She never deals with sensible questions, I believe because she actually doesn't want to find this horse the loving home he deserves. 

Go on Bonny, prove us all wrong, answer my 4 easy questions!!!!


----------



## rosie fronfelen (4 June 2010)

bonny said:



			Benson, I certainly don't think pts is an easy option or easy to live with if you go down that route.  I've had to have horses destroyed in the past and had horses die after accidents but I also think it's part of having horses that somethimes you have to make that decision.
Horses will live along time and if people have the facilities and money to keep them in retirement then that's fine but I'm not in that situation. Saying that I do have an old, aggressive pony that will never leave us, I would never find a suitable home for him and despite his grumbiness he's very much loved.
This is a very large, middle aged tb who was bred to race and has done for many years.  He's not suitable as a hacking horse, not an easy horse to handle or keep and I genuinely can't see what else he could do.  In the wrong hands he would be a nightmare. I wish now we hadn't had him back, but we did and it's now a problem where he goes. I'm getting critised for wondering what is the best course of action and maybe someone will turn up who wants him but I can't see why apart from the chance of having a free horse.
		
Click to expand...

to be brutally honest, i dont think you have any idea of what you are talking about! 16.3  is not huge, 12 isnt middle aged- this horse needs a decent home that you cant be arsed to find him! nothing wrong with ex racers, youve described him elsewhere and he sound like hes crying out for a loving owner and TLC. so what are all these horses you've had put down  and lots of accidents? you sound like a disaster zone- for gods sake put ads. everywhere, local rag, paper shops, supermarkets- you never know who might come along!


----------



## rosie fronfelen (4 June 2010)

-----and Bonny, where have you disappeared to?


----------



## duggan (4 June 2010)

Well, she's not answered my pm. We are experienced tb people, and I think from what i've read the horse might well do our job. Not necessary asking for a free horse, but i want a big tb that jumps and enjoys his jumping, and is under 18 years old. Quirks??! We have them all! Ticks the boxes, but i'm not convinced he's really available......


----------



## cloudandmatrix (4 June 2010)

hmmc chances of a good home- tbh she sounds like the worst home for this poor horse


----------



## duggan (4 June 2010)

Having received a reply now i'm even more in the dark. Good luck with what you do end up doing with him, you obviously have had your issues with him, but in my humble opinion you need to allow the horse the show his worth, not make decisions for him based on your own experiences. My top tc open horse would stop at a crosspole if he thought his rider wasn't sure.
Your original post was asking if he'd find a good home, but you don't think he can do anything at all safely. Won't hack, won't jump etc etc. If you are looking for a companion home then say so, there are people looking for those too! Or is he evil to all other equines as well? I'm glad you've had so much support. But I don't understand so can't be one of them.
From my experience of horses, you enlighten people with his failures and fortunes, then leave the horse to make his own way in life. Not constantly tell people he's no good and can't do anything. Not going to reply to the pm as it took enough time for you to notice it last time!!!!


----------



## CNM (4 June 2010)

OMG! I am now bald as i have pulled all my hair out over this post!! So bloody frustrating....


----------

