# Why do people want designer dogs?



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

Not sure if I have the right term there? I'm assuming that people either like two different breeds but can't pick just one and so go for an amalgam or that they simply like the look of the designer dog of their choosing more than any of the more established breeds? Nothing wrong with that as far as I can tell but I'm still wondering if there are any benefits to buying a dog that's a mixture of two pedigree breeds?

I know that what we used to call mongrels were often said to be healthier than pedigrees but is that true? And are the designer breeds healthier than their original pure breeds? I can't see how they can be but am ready to stand corrected  I am thinking (possibly incorrectly) that the 'new' breeds are brought into existence by less experienced breeders but maybe that's not true either? Does anyone know the answers please


----------



## Mabelthefoal (15 February 2017)

I think whether or not they're healthier depends on the breeds used for the cross and the health of the dogs used to breed. I have a cross breed, I suppose you could call her designer ( although I really don't think so, especially after she's rolled in fox poo!). She is a basset x springer. I love her to bits. Not as many issues as a basset re eyes and back but with the basset look I like. I just fell in love with the cross. She's got that lovely springer outlook on life ( mad as a box of frogs). She cost a fair amount, enough to make you think about it seriously ( I think all dogs should cost a lot, might make people who buy on a whim think twice). Saying that I also love Bassetts and springers in their original form, so for me it was just that I saw her and fell in love!


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (15 February 2017)

Cross breed mongrels I call them SC


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

Mabelthefoal said:



			I think whether or not they're healthier depends on the breeds used for the cross and the health of the dogs used to breed. I have a cross breed, I suppose you could call her designer ( although I really don't think so, especially after she's rolled in fox poo!). She is a basset x springer. I love her to bits. Not as many issues as a basset re eyes and back but with the basset look I like. I just fell in love with the cross. She's got that lovely springer outlook on life ( mad as a box of frogs). She cost a fair amount, enough to make you think about it seriously ( I think all dogs should cost a lot, might make people who buy on a whim think twice). Saying that I also love Bassetts and springers in their original form, so for me it was just that I saw her and fell in love!
		
Click to expand...

So is she a "Bringer"? I think we need to see a pic please 

TFF, you non politically correct thing you


----------



## Mabelthefoal (15 February 2017)

I would but I don't know how to post a picture ( hides head in shame). I'm new to this forum business! Tell me how
W and I'll put one on


----------



## Mabelthefoal (15 February 2017)

Off to work now but I'll pop one on later. She is a mongrel &#55357;&#56832; But so is my terrier and they are both lovely, except when rolling in aforementioned fox poo or eating horse poo. I also have a rescued bichon ( hubby found her as a stray and we adopted her from the rescue) so a very random selection of dogs! I love all breeds whether pedigree, cross, mongrel etc etc. As long as they are happy and healthy I really don't care what the breeding is.


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

Mabelthefoal said:



			I would but I don't know how to post a picture ( hides head in shame). I'm new to this forum business! Tell me how
W and I'll put one on
		
Click to expand...

I'm no expert but I've managed it by putting photos into a PhotoBucket account and then getting the code from there. Hope you manage it because I want to see her


----------



## Sprout (15 February 2017)

I am going to puppy classes at the moment with my Swissie - all the other pups are "designer" dogs ( mongrels in my day ) and they are seriously going to give their owners the run around ..... intelligent dogs being treated like babies/fashion accessories!  No disrespect to any happy owners of these types of dog , just saying what I see at the classes.


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

Sprout said:



			I am going to puppy classes at the moment with my Swissie - all the other pups are "designer" dogs ( mongrels in my day ) and they are seriously going to give their owners the run around ..... intelligent dogs being treated like babies/fashion accessories!  No disrespect to any happy owners of these types of dog , just saying what I see at the classes.
		
Click to expand...

I get that accusation levelled at me too Sprout, because I have a Chihuahua but she is treated just like my other dogs. I wouldn't know a designer handbag if someone smacked me round the head with one  and I'm not a brain dead bimbo who thinks my dogs are human babies I promise you


----------



## smja (15 February 2017)

I think there's a lot of misinformation/poorly informed people choosing these dogs, some of whom don't know the difference between a pedigree and a designer crossbreed.

I met a chap the other day who proudly informed me that his dog was "a purebred labradoodle" *facepalm*


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (15 February 2017)

Snowy Celandine said:



			I get that accusation levelled at me too Sprout, because I have a Chihuahua but she is treated just like my other dogs. I wouldn't know a designer handbag if someone smacked me round the head with one  and I'm not a brain dead bimbo who thinks my dogs are human babies I promise you 

Click to expand...

Not a brain dead bimbo? Hmm, not even a bimbo either 

On another note, I find it quite funny (odd funny) when am walking my Shih, particularly when on my work lunch break. The amount of people that give me a withering-type look (work walks are in a rather posh-ish area) as they tootle past with their hybrid cross breed spangle-doodle-setter-fingy, or let their dogs bounce all over mine who is on a lead.

In the past when I had much larger dogs this was never the case at all, now I have a small dog (who is treated as a dog) its as if am inconsequential invisible person.
However, when I occasionally march tiny one off the yard & paddocks onto my most local common, most of the walkers have std dogs (not all, but v strong theme of labs,retrievers,collies etc)  are lovely


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

smja said:



			I think there's a lot of misinformation/poorly informed people choosing these dogs, some of whom don't know the difference between a pedigree and a designer crossbreed.

I met a chap the other day who proudly informed me that his dog was "a purebred labradoodle" *facepalm*
		
Click to expand...

Maybe the labradoodle will become an accepted breed over time though if some form of rules regarding their breeding is introduced? I suppose all dog breeds started somewhere? I don't think I'd want one for myself at present because there are so many sizes,shapes, temperaments of dogs to choose from that I don't feel the need for what might be poor combinations but they seem overwhelmingly popular from what I can gather and I am seriously wanting to know what advantage they have, or are perceived to have, over existing breeds?


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Not a brain dead bimbo? Hmm, not even a bimbo either 

On another note, I find it quite funny (odd funny) when am walking my Shih, particularly with on my work lunch break. The amount of people that give me a withering-type look (work walks are in a rather posh-ish area) as they tootle past with their hybrid cross breed spangle-doodle-setter-fingy, or let their dogs bounce all over mine who is on a lead.

In the past when I had much larger dogs this was never the case at all, now I have a small dog (who is treated as a dog) its as if am inconsequential invisible person.
However, when I occasionally march tiny one off the yard & paddocks onto my most local common, most of the walkers have std dogs (not all, but v strong theme of labs,retrievers,collies etc)  are lovely 

Click to expand...

Nope, I never get any qualifications at all, not even my bimbo degree it seems  I love your neologism spangle-doodle-setter-fingy. Where do I purchase one please? I'll have a look on Amazon.

I definitely get looked down on for having a tiny dog. The local gamekeeper can barely suppress a snigger when he sees me out walking but my dogs are never on leads, let alone riding along in handbags and are happy little souls just as your little girl looks to be. Size-ism I reckon!!


----------



## Moobli (15 February 2017)

Designer dogs have come about as a response to a gap in the market for a family friendly, low allergy dog.  Although I believe Labradoodles were initially an experiment when there was a need for a low shedding guide dog.  The aim of breeders seem to be to produce a low maintenance, low shedding coat (hence the use of a poodle) with the friendly nature of the other popular breeds in the "poo" or "doodle" varieties - Labs, Cockers, Cavaliers etc.  

I am sure there will be some responsible breeders who do health test both parents for their relevant issues but unfortunately the vast majority of these designer cross breeders seem to be in it purely for the money as no health tests are done or back up offered etc.

Of course producing any type of mixed breed dog is something of a gamble in terms of coat type, health and personality.  Purely anecdotal, but the cockapoos in particular seem to be a real handful in terms of energy - which may be because the spaniel used in lots of these types is the working cocker.


----------



## smja (15 February 2017)

Snowy Celandine said:



			Maybe the labradoodle will become an accepted breed over time though if some form of rules regarding their breeding is introduced? I suppose all dog breeds started somewhere? I don't think I'd want one for myself at present because there are so many sizes,shapes, temperaments of dogs to choose from that I don't feel the need for what might be poor combinations but they seem overwhelmingly popular from what I can gather and I am seriously wanting to know what advantage they have, or are perceived to have, over existing breeds?
		
Click to expand...

Quite possibly, I wouldn't mind if it did. I've no feelings either way about pedigree vs designer crossbreed vs Heinz 57 mongrel, I would look at the dog in front of me.

What I do object to is people buying designer crossbreeds without having done their research and understanding what they're getting, or breeders selling them to completely novice owners without checking suitability.

The chap in question is a lovely man, but I genuinely had to explain to him that the other labradoodle in the park was not "only part-bred labradoodle" but was in fact just another lab x poodle who looked completely different.

Similarly, my uncle asked my mum how big his cockapoo was going to grow. He was gobsmacked when she asked how big its parents were - "are they not all the same size?"


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

Thanks WGSD  I'd forgotten that poodles were meant to be good for people with allergies. I wonder if it works and people who couldn't have other dogs end up being able to have these?


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

smja said:



			Quite possibly, I wouldn't mind if it did. I've no feelings either way about pedigree vs designer crossbreed vs Heinz 57 mongrel, I would look at the dog in front of me.

What I do object to is people buying designer crossbreeds without having done their research and understanding what they're getting, or breeders selling them to completely novice owners without checking suitability.

The chap in question is a lovely man, but I genuinely had to explain to him that the other labradoodle in the park was not "only part-bred labradoodle" but was in fact just another lab x poodle who looked completely different.

Similarly, my uncle asked my mum how big his cockapoo was going to grow. He was gobsmacked when she asked how big its parents were - "are they not all the same size?"
		
Click to expand...

smja, I wouldn't mind if new breeds were 'invented' either if people are going to breed them properly with regard to health and temperament 

As for breeders checking the 'credentials' of prospective owners - I'm not as sure on that front. In an ideal world only good, responsible breeders and owners would exist but who'd police that? It does break your heart to see shelters full of abandoned animals obviously and I feel incandescent with rage at their former owners when I find out their sad histories sometimes.


----------



## vallin (15 February 2017)

Daisy is lab x gsp and was bought by the MIL with the idea that she'd be a slighter, marginally more energetic lab that'd be less prone to hip dysplasia etc. Unfortunately she had very little understanding of gsp temperament (always had labradors previously) and ended up with a dog with the brains (or lack thereof  ) and speed of a gsp with a Labrador coat. No idea if the parents were health tested etc so what her future health will be like - who knows! The one thing I would say is that to my (untrained) eye she has fabulous confirmation and in the right hands would have been an incredible working dog so if someone was looking to refine the Labrador a bit then adding in a bit of gsp blood wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea - a bit like they did when creating the original ISH.


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

vallin said:



			Daisy is lab x gsp and was bought by the MIL with the idea that she'd be a slighter, marginally more energetic lab that'd be less prone to hip dysplasia etc. Unfortunately she had very little understanding of gsp temperament (always had labradors previously) and ended up with a dog with the brains (or lack thereof  ) and speed of a gsp with a Labrador coat. No idea if the parents were health tested etc so what her future health will be like - who knows! The one thing I would say is that to my (untrained) eye she has fabulous confirmation and in the right hands would have been an incredible working dog so if someone was looking to refine the Labrador a bit then adding in a bit of gsp blood wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea - a bit like they did when creating the original ISH.
		
Click to expand...

She sounds lovely vallin but please excuse my ignorance - what's a gsp?


----------



## Clodagh (15 February 2017)

A girl I work with has a schnauzer x poodle, she was telling me the other day how ross she gets that noone ever gets the breed right. I said 'Well, he isn't a breed, is he?' but apparently he is...Gets me! Have to say though he is a cracking little dog but as he is a baby substitute they are having problems already.


----------



## Cinnamontoast (15 February 2017)

I fear that designer dogs with stupid names and massive price tags are often bred by those with their eyes on their bank balance and rarely for the benefit of the breed(s). The price tags are ridiculous. I could get a health tested springer for £650, but a designer 'sproodle' might cost me nearer a grand. A poodle parent doesn't necessarily guarantee a non-shedding pup. 

It's a trend, isn't it, to have a designer dog. French Bulldogs will outnumber Labradors as the most registered breed in the UK shortly, apparently. From year to year, the 'popular' breed changes. There are currently pictures galore of corgi puppies on Facebook, I expect they will be very popular soon, having not been common since I was a child. Huskies were the dog of choice for many recently, there are loads round my way, along with chi/pug crosses. Used to be staffies round here, now it's mastiff types/crosses and Dalmatians, oddly.


----------



## vallin (15 February 2017)

Snowy Celandine said:



			She sounds lovely vallin but please excuse my ignorance - what's a gsp?
		
Click to expand...

German shorthaired pointer


----------



## Cinnamontoast (15 February 2017)

Snowy Celandine said:



			She sounds lovely vallin but please excuse my ignorance - what's a gsp?
		
Click to expand...

German short haired pointer.


----------



## Thistle (15 February 2017)

Snowy Celandine said:



			She sounds lovely vallin but please excuse my ignorance - what's a gsp?
		
Click to expand...

German Shorthaired pointer


----------



## vallin (15 February 2017)

Oh and I were having a discussion the other day about why more people don't buy ready trained dogs - being novice dog owners I'd much prefer to buy one with walking to heel and recall already well established but the closest I could find (not that we're actually looking to buy) is personal protection type dogs.


----------



## Leo Walker (15 February 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			Designer dogs have come about as a response to a gap in the market for a family friendly, low allergy dog.  Although I believe Labradoodles were initially an experiment when there was a need for a low shedding guide dog.  The aim of breeders seem to be to produce a low maintenance, low shedding coat (hence the use of a poodle) with the friendly nature of the other popular breeds in the "poo" or "doodle" varieties - Labs, Cockers, Cavaliers etc.  

I am sure there will be some responsible breeders who do health test both parents for their relevant issues but unfortunately the vast majority of these designer cross breeders seem to be in it purely for the money as no health tests are done or back up offered etc.

Of course producing any type of mixed breed dog is something of a gamble in terms of coat type, health and personality.  Purely anecdotal, but the cockapoos in particular seem to be a real handful in terms of energy - which may be because the spaniel used in lots of these types is the working cocker.
		
Click to expand...

The bloke who "created" labradoodles regrets it and wishes he hadnt.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...eding-Frankenstein-versions-designer-dog.html


----------



## cobgoblin (15 February 2017)

They have always existed...I've had quite a few lovely poodle crosses.

The problems started when someone gave them a name other than 'mongrel'.


----------



## Clodagh (15 February 2017)

Corgis are lovely little dogs, at least they can breathe. 
As for having dogs that are 6 months old with the basics installed, there is a man in Herts (I think) who does just that, they are expensive, but much easier. His are labradors.


----------



## MotherOfChickens (15 February 2017)

vallin said:



			Oh and I were having a discussion the other day about why more people don't buy ready trained dogs - being novice dog owners I'd much prefer to buy one with walking to heel and recall already well established but the closest I could find (not that we're actually looking to buy) is personal protection type dogs.
		
Click to expand...

there are a couple of gun dog trainers up here (Scotland). There are also some that advertise on pets4homes-have no idea what they are like but they are called WKD dogs or something-mostly gun dogs and GSD. You pay a lot more (comparatively) for a partly trained dog than a partly trained horse which is probably a good thing.


----------



## stencilface (15 February 2017)

I met a dog the other day who was a labradoodle x collie. He was lovely! The guy bought him from a farm, I didn't ask for how much lol. He looked like the kind of wiry scruffy dogs they use in adverts, like the dogs trust one atm (but in black).

I don't think paying a lot for a dog guarantees  a sensible owner, I know enough people with more money than sense. Buying trained dogs is a great idea, I know a guy who's on his second golf trained labrador, which I find hilarious, costs a fortune!

Most poodle crosses I've met have been very ott dogs jumping all over, but I suspect this is because the ones I've met are all child substitutes and not treated as dogs.


----------



## SpringArising (15 February 2017)

The trend for certain dogs is absolutely shocking. I really can't believe how much some people ask. I don't keep an eye on anything other than French Bulldogs and Staffies, but some lilac and chocolate French Bulldogs are going for upwards of 8k - they're not even correct by KC standards! 

Blue Staffies are everywhere and it's almost impossible to find a brindle or red that's KC reg and not crossed with some massive Mastiff - blues are going for over £1000 while the rare reds who are pedigree are going for £600. It's sad I think. We're losing true to type dogs to a fad hype promoted by people who have no desire to improve the breed.


----------



## pippixox (15 February 2017)

Ultimately like others have said- a cross does not get rid of the problems the original pedigrees have. They could actually have issues from both breeds! 

My brother in law and girlfriend have a French bulldog (not designer cross but a designer breed at the moment) pretty sure it cost them over £1000. Also luckily they insured it as within  first year it needed an eye and breathing operation! Thankfully his girlfriend is strict with it though and it is a lovely dog. I let my dog on the sofa when invited, but it is a dog not a baby.

People want puppies because they are cute! Personally I have no urge for one! Happy with 2yo rescue.

I hate how dog trends often change for the worse: husky types are now in so many rescues- personally hardly saw any 5 years ago. Wonderful dogs but only for the right owners, but people liked the fluffy wolf look. Now French and British Bulldogs, with all their health issues .


----------



## hairycob (15 February 2017)

My son used to work in dog insurance. He found the quotes for some breeds, especially French Bulldogs, eye watering. But the rates are high for a reason. Finnish Laphunds on the other hand are very cheap to insure.


----------



## Moobli (15 February 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			there are a couple of gun dog trainers up here (Scotland). There are also some that advertise on pets4homes-have no idea what they are like but they are called WKD dogs or something-mostly gun dogs and GSD. You pay a lot more (comparatively) for a partly trained dog than a partly trained horse which is probably a good thing.
		
Click to expand...

Yes WKD are in Staffordshire

https://www.wkd-uk.com/


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

Thanks for explaining gsp everyone  

The article was interesting too. That chap sounds really sorry that he opened up the door to the designer dog phenomenon after seeing the end result  Surely a lot of these dogs must get good homes though mustn't they or at least I really hope so? Maybe it's like anything that's in fashion though, no-one wants it when it has fallen out of favour? I can't understand how a dog could ever be considered a fashion in the first place though. Surely you research the breeds and decide what sort of temperament you are after, what exercise levels, personality and which body shape appeals to you rather than getting the same dog as everyone else has? People are very silly sometimes in my opinion.


----------



## MotherOfChickens (15 February 2017)

Snowy Celandine said:



			Thanks for explaining gsp everyone  

The article was interesting too. That chap sounds really sorry that he opened up the door to the designer dog phenomenon after seeing the end result  Surely a lot of these dogs must get good homes though mustn't they or at least I really hope so? Maybe it's like anything that's in fashion though, no-one wants it when it has fallen out of favour? I can't understand how a dog could ever be considered a fashion in the first place though. Surely you research the breeds and decide what sort of temperament you are after, what exercise levels, personality and which body shape appeals to you rather than getting the same dog as everyone else has? People are very silly sometimes in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

people want a puppy, they want *that* puppy and they want it now, they don't care about the rest. some want the cute puppies with bug eyes (anything crossed with a pug) and some want the ear cropped cane corso-even though cropping is illegal here. people are ****rs.

did you see the chi police dog on the telly?


----------



## splashgirl45 (15 February 2017)

Snowy Celandine said:



			Thanks for explaining gsp everyone  

The article was interesting too. That chap sounds really sorry that he opened up the door to the designer dog phenomenon after seeing the end result  Surely a lot of these dogs must get good homes though mustn't they or at least I really hope so? Maybe it's like anything that's in fashion though, no-one wants it when it has fallen out of favour? I can't understand how a dog could ever be considered a fashion in the first place though. Surely you research the breeds and decide what sort of temperament you are after, what exercise levels, personality and which body shape appeals to you rather than getting the same dog as everyone else has? People are very silly sometimes in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

you are right, people should research the breed(or crossbreed) and match it to their lifestyle, this doesnt happen alot of the time and they end up with a hyper dog who needs lots of exercise and its only given 1 or 2 short lead walks a day and ends up in rescue....also not all of the poodle crosses are non shedding , even though they are sold as such..


----------



## Clodagh (15 February 2017)

Not just crosses, a friend picked up an 18 month old working lab bitch yestrday, she was living in a flat with a family, had never been for a walk even. Lovely dog, still good natured and has really fallen on her feet.


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Not just crosses, a friend picked up an 18 month old working lab bitch yestrday, she was living in a flat with a family, had never been for a walk even. Lovely dog, still good natured and has really fallen on her feet.
		
Click to expand...

How in the name of goodness could idiots not take a dog for regular walks? Actually, that's reminded me of one place that I lived in where one (revolting I have to say) neighbour bought a Bichon and so another (equally revolting) neighbour rushed out and bought one too and I never, ever saw either dog being walked. I used to hear the dog barking and whining in the next door neighbour's garden and the other dog spent most of its time standing on a downstairs window ledge but the only time I saw either dog was when they were puppies and they were out on their drives showing them off. Goodness, how I detested both of those couples


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			people want a puppy, they want *that* puppy and they want it now, they don't care about the rest. some want the cute puppies with bug eyes (anything crossed with a pug) and some want the ear cropped cane corso-even though cropping is illegal here. people are ****rs.

did you see the chi police dog on the telly? 

Click to expand...

A chi police dog? Ha ha. No, not seen that.


----------



## MotherOfChickens (15 February 2017)

Snowy Celandine said:



			A chi police dog? Ha ha. No, not seen that.
		
Click to expand...

Secret Life of Dogs on ITV. She works as a sniffer dog in the US


----------



## MotherOfChickens (15 February 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Not just crosses, a friend picked up an 18 month old working lab bitch yestrday, she was living in a flat with a family, had never been for a walk even. Lovely dog, still good natured and has really fallen on her feet.
		
Click to expand...

bah, reminds me of the two staffies that lived across the stairwell from OH when he was in Edinburgh. They would bark all day and they only ever went down as far as the road to do their business in the gutter-on a pretty busy road in Leith.Literally down the stairs, outside and back up again and we weren't that far from a local park either-a few minutes walk.


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			Secret Life of Dogs on ITV. She works as a sniffer dog in the US 

Click to expand...

I'll look that up, thanks  I liked the spaniels in the airport in Florida who sniffed your case to see if you were smuggling oranges. I wasn't


----------



## Alec Swan (15 February 2017)

There's no question that there are those who when deciding upon breed or cross-breed,  do so as they see it as a route to express themselves,  or put another way,  the dog is an ornament,  like jewellery or cars or clothes.  Very few,  it seems to me,  want a dog for itself,  if they did,  they'd be taking in motley mongrels and come to think of it,  I haven't seen a Heinz 57 for years! 

Alec.


----------



## Snowy Celandine (15 February 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			There's no question that there are those who when deciding upon breed or cross-breed,  do so as they see it as a route to express themselves,  or put another way,  the dog is an ornament,  like jewellery or cars or clothes.  Very few,  it seems to me,  want a dog for itself,  if they did,  they'd be taking in motley mongrels and come to think of it,  I haven't seen a Heinz 57 for years! 

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

But Alec darling, don't you know my Chi is swathed in designer Poochi clothing and wears a diamond tiara at all times. She is so like my elegant, fabulous self ... or do we both just have big ears and bulgy eyes? You can decide dear heart. Mwaaah!


----------



## Cinnamontoast (15 February 2017)

vallin said:



			Oh and I were having a discussion the other day about why more people don't buy ready trained dogs - being novice dog owners I'd much prefer to buy one with walking to heel and recall already well established but the closest I could find (not that we're actually looking to buy) is personal protection type dogs.
		
Click to expand...

Lots of trained springers on the gun dog selling site, £3000 was a price I saw a few times the other day when looking. 

I think the vast majority of people want a very young dog to train/mould how they want it, or at least have the ideal of this in their head. The cuteness factor is vast, too.


----------



## Alec Swan (16 February 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			Lots of trained springers on the gun dog selling site, £3000 was a price I saw a few times the other day when looking. 

I think the vast majority of people want a very young dog to train/mould how they want it, or at least have the ideal of this in their head. The cuteness factor is vast, too.
		
Click to expand...

There's a certain market for trained dogs amongst those who haven't got it in them to train and the sad truth is that if they can't _'train'_ then they generally can't _'handle'_ either.  Most trained dogs which are sold regress in one way or another,  but then with the owner becoming attached to the dog,  so the bond is formed.

I might add that generally every word of the sound advice which the seller offers to the buyer goes in one ear,  and out of the other!!

Alec.


----------



## eatmyshorts (16 February 2017)

I agree Alex - training done can be quickly undone by bad handling/lack of further training. I think mongrels/crossbreeds are fab but i hate how people appear just to jump on the bandwagon to make a fast buck. Give it a few years & our pounds will be full of designer "breeds" - just like we are starting to see more huskies coming through now. In one way i can see that perhaps charging a decent amount for any dog ensures genuine interest/comittment, but on the other hand, someone makes a profit, & the unscrupulous see an opportunity.


----------



## CorvusCorax (16 February 2017)

They are already in pounds but they are advertised as poodle or pug crosses....which is what they are.

The poodle crosses I see all look delightful but the bigger ones are like kangaroos on steroids and the little ones all appear quite noisy and reactive - as a generalisation.


----------



## s4sugar (16 February 2017)

Most of the designer dogs get purchased because the people buying are lied to. 
Advert sites are full of puppies ready now which will have the best from both parents and none of the negatives. If you want a well bred purebred dog you usually have to wait for one or, horrors, the breeder wants to keep the pick for themselves.
If you ask why someone with a poodle cross didn't buy a poodle the usual answer is "I don't like poodles" or "poodles are nasty" when they have never met one and I would trust a poodle over a BYB cocker or Lab any day.
They get all defensive when you call their dog a Crossbreed.
I'm a microchip implanter and refuse to use made up names - Mothers breed cross or they can go elsewhere.


----------



## Clodagh (16 February 2017)

I like the cockerpoos I have met, fun little dogs, but I wouldn't want one. They seem to have the manic anxiety and neediness of a cocker with the high maintenance coat of the poodle.
I agree with you, S4S, crossbreeds are always available whereas a well bred pedigree you have to wait for.


----------



## Cinnamontoast (16 February 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			There's a certain market for trained dogs amongst those who haven't got it in them to train and the sad truth is that if they can't _'train'_ then they generally can't _'handle'_ either.  Most trained dogs which are sold regress in one way or another,  but then with the owner becoming attached to the dog,  so the bond is formed.

I might add that generally every word of the sound advice which the seller offers to the buyer goes in one ear,  and out of the other!!

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

I can imagine, yes! I'm happy to train my lot myself, once we realised they needed more than the woods walks the others liked, it's been fun. I've enjoyed teaching them new things, like sending them for a retrieve then calling them off, all originally to keep pusscat occupied!


----------



## Moobli (16 February 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			There's a certain market for trained dogs amongst those who haven't got it in them to train and the sad truth is that if they can't _'train'_ then they generally can't _'handle'_ either.  Most trained dogs which are sold regress in one way or another,  but then with the owner becoming attached to the dog,  so the bond is formed.

I might add that generally every word of the sound advice which the seller offers to the buyer goes in one ear,  and out of the other!!

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

I like to train my own dogs personally, as I get a lot of pleasure and satisfaction from it.  However, I do think there is a place for trained dogs - and do wonder whether there would be less dogs rehomed if families chose a part trained puppy or a trained adult dog - but, as you rightly point out Alec, training is an ongoing process and many of those that can't/won't train a puppy then won't keep up the work needed to continue their dog's training into adulthood.

Trained working dogs are a different matter though, and it is not at all uncommon for farmers or shepherds to buy and sell trained dogs as they simply don't have the time or the knowledge and/or skills to train their own.  I guess the same is probably said about gun dogs.  I also know of a handful of police dogs who were bought with their foundation training already in place so they could get straight on an initial course with their handler - though that is not all that common.

A friend of mine bought a trained personal protection dog a few years ago and he was absolutely awesome.  An incredible dog.  She was fully committed to continuing his training and went regularly back to the people she bought him from for refresher training in his protection training as well as continuing his obedience training herself.


----------



## vallin (16 February 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			There's a certain market for trained dogs amongst those who haven't got it in them to train and the sad truth is that if they can't _'train'_ then they generally can't _'handle'_ either.  Most trained dogs which are sold regress in one way or another,  but then with the owner becoming attached to the dog,  so the bond is formed.

I might add that generally every word of the sound advice which the seller offers to the buyer goes in one ear,  and out of the other!!

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

I don't know, as said above if I were to buy a dog I would go for one with the basics installed rather than a puppy - that doesn't mean I wouldn't then want to further it's education but for me training a dog to heel and come to call, whilst vital skills, is boring as sin and requires apparently endless time and patience. I should add though, it's quite possible I just hate training those two skills as despite consistent and regular training with the MILs dog they are still skills she has yet to master


----------



## Sarah_K (16 February 2017)

Clodagh said:



			I like the cockerpoos I have met, fun little dogs, but I wouldn't want one. They seem to have the manic anxiety and neediness of a cocker with the high maintenance coat of the poodle.
I agree with you, S4S, crossbreeds are always available whereas a well bred pedigree you have to wait for.
		
Click to expand...

There's one goes to my agility class. He's a lovely dog but my god I think he could run from Lands End to John O'Groats and still have the energy to run back. He's fortunate in that his owner is keen on Obedience and agility so can keep him occupied. I can't imagine what he'd be like with a less active and involved owner.

I have a crossbreed- or Chichon I think is the "designer" name. He's got the nervyness of a Chihuahua and the coat of a Bichon. He was a rescue but he's a smashing little dog


----------



## MotherOfChickens (16 February 2017)

as for the ready trained dog then losing its training due to inadequate handling. well, thats the same as horses but we all have to start somewhere surely?! I've had dogs all my life but my parent's dogs were far from trained-in fact house training was the only thing they got right. Although there seems to be many expert dog trainers on HHO, they must have all had their first dog at some point   I am sometimes gobsmacked at how difficult some people find house training etc but there you are-pups are a lot of (uncomplicated) work. Then you get the slightly older pup that people stop training because all of a sudden their cute pup isn't as reliant on them and as obedient as they were and they give up training just when they need to be doing more of it.

A work colleague of mine has recently obtained a working lab (her 5th). She chose the pup and she stayed at the breeders until she was nearly a year old. Colleague then got a house trained pup who was ready to go hill walking and slot into her life (she did go up and work with her and the trainer regularly. I'm not sure I would do it but she's a lovely bitch and all parties are happy. Cost a fair bit though!


----------



## {97702} (16 February 2017)

In response to the original question..... because people are gullible and believe what they read on social media 

Cos all rescue dogs have "issues" and therefore shouldn't be considered domcha know

And cross breds/mongrels are free from the horrendous genetic defects that affect pedigree dogs because of "hybrid vigour"

And people are fashion conscious and go for the latest fashion


----------



## Smitty (16 February 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			There's no question that there are those who when deciding upon breed or cross-breed,  do so as they see it as a route to express themselves,  or put another way,  the dog is an ornament,  like jewellery or cars or clothes.  Very few,  it seems to me,  want a dog for itself,  if they did,  they'd be taking in motley mongrels and come to think of it,  I haven't seen a Heinz 57 for years! 

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

I think I have one.  He is brown, short and  ordinary.  I fondly believe/tell people he is a Patterjackdale, but mongrel is probably nearer the mark.


----------



## CorvusCorax (16 February 2017)

Lévrier;13488257 said:
			
		


			In response to the original question..... because people are gullible and believe what they read on social media 

Cos all rescue dogs have "issues" and therefore shouldn't be considered domcha know

And cross breds/mongrels are free from the horrendous genetic defects that affect pedigree dogs because of "hybrid vigour"

And people are fashion conscious and go for the latest fashion
		
Click to expand...

Word


----------



## Kaylum (17 February 2017)

Lévrier;13488257 said:
			
		


			In response to the original question..... because people are gullible and believe what they read on social media 

Cos all rescue dogs have "issues" and therefore shouldn't be considered domcha know

And cross breds/mongrels are free from the horrendous genetic defects that affect pedigree dogs because of "hybrid vigour"

And people are fashion conscious and go for the latest fashion
		
Click to expand...

The rescue dog issue thing yes lots have issues and my latest girl has but those issues are so easy to deal with having already had a dog with the same issues it really is quite easy for experienced people to help these dogs. I thought I would never be able to get a rescue dog as we work but some charities now see experienced owners as a very good home. We were very determined to get a rescue and have now rehomed a Cairn  x Scottie.


----------



## rara007 (17 February 2017)

For 95% of dog owning people locally the top aim is 'companionship', the average dog no longer works for his keep. Quite close to the top of their priority list of puppy choice will also likely be 'fashion' or the like, for some this will even be subconscious. What do their friends have that they like, what do celebs have that they like. Somewhere along the lines perceived convenience will be considered too. After all 'pedigree' and 'breed standard' is only a human invention. Almost any dog, deformed conformation, genetic disaster, 'line bred' or expensive cross can be a companion just as well as a Heinz 57, but the Heinz 57 isn't trendy unless I comes with the title Romanian Street dog. Very few people have issue with 'mongrel' horses...


----------



## Fiona (17 February 2017)

I have a Lakeland cross fox terrier, and I can definitely see elements of both breeds in her make up.  Even within the litter though there was a huge variety in coat types.  I picked a pup with a rougher coat rather than softer and fluffier, and its remained like that and completely non shedding (though not picked for that reason).

While we paid a reasonable amount for her, it wasn't extortionate, and I did get to meet both mother and father.

Fiona


----------



## MotherOfChickens (17 February 2017)

someone was selling jug puppies in FB yesterday. she did get some stick although her puppies were far from the most expensive puppies I've seen. her argument for breeding them though was because pugs have so many problems, it was nice to see the flat face being bred out. so why not just choose another breed with a normal face then?! most of the comments supporting her were pointing out the terrible problems in purebred dogs (and the fact they were boring, as they all looked the same within a breed *rolls eyes*). I think TV shows like the one a few years back do more harm than good-we already know most of the population arent critical thinkers.


----------



## Kaylum (17 February 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			someone was selling jug puppies in FB yesterday. she did get some stick although her puppies were far from the most expensive puppies I've seen. her argument for breeding them though was because pugs have so many problems, it was nice to see the flat face being bred out. so why not just choose another breed with a normal face then?! most of the comments supporting her were pointing out the terrible problems in purebred dogs (and the fact they were boring, as they all looked the same within a breed *rolls eyes*). I think TV shows like the one a few years back do more harm than good-we already know most of the population arent critical thinkers.
		
Click to expand...

They just don't get it do they?  Pugs have health problems so I will cross it with a Jr and it will be fine.


----------



## Clodagh (20 February 2017)

On preloved is a Tamaskan wolf dog x labrador. I imagine the planning that went into that was 'OMG this dog has a penis, and that dog a uterus, we could make money here...'


----------



## Amymay (20 February 2017)

Clodagh said:



			On preloved is a Tamaskan wolf dog x labrador. I imagine the planning that went into that was 'OMG this dog has a penis, and that dog a uterus, we could make money here...'
		
Click to expand...

So a true mongrel then.


----------



## Wella (20 February 2017)

People who I know who have these thingy poo dogs have bought them because they allegedly don't moult. My nephew has a cocker poo it's absolutely hyper. He paid £900 for it. I was gobsmacked!!! A GSP is a German Shorthaired Pointer to answer an earlier question. Best breed in the world &#55358;&#56611;&#55357;&#56841; My last dog was a GSP x Weimaraner.


----------



## Clodagh (21 February 2017)

amymay said:



			So a true mongrel then.
		
Click to expand...

No! It is a Tamador!! Do keep up...


----------



## Wella (21 February 2017)

Clodagh said:



			No! It is a Tamador!! Do keep up...

Click to expand...

Brilliant


----------

