# What are the symptoms of Kissing spine?



## mads236 (7 June 2012)

Hi 

I was wondering if anyone has any info or experience in the symptoms of kissing spine? I bought my horse in Sept last year, he is 10yrs old and has been turned out at stud for most of his life. (he is gelded now) He was classed as 'bouncy but safe' in his advert and had been on loan to 2 different homes and returned due to his behavior. After I got him home I got his teeth, back and saddle checked none of which were causing a major problem. He gets very stressed when ridden, holding his tail and head very high, unwilling to move forwards, bouncing on the spot and launching through the air and bolting. He finds it difficult to canter in a rhythm and often bounces or bolts. He also faffs constantly with his head and is unwilling to bend and stretch down. He can jump well, but tends to rush into the jump and then sometimes leaps through the air afterwards. I thought this may be due to lack of proper training or possibly stress as there was limited turnout, so gave him some time off and moved him to a quieter yard with more turnout. I brought him back into work slowly and did lots of lunge work with long reins and the passoa to help him work long and low, which after initially resenting he accepted over time. I've started riding him again (just walk and trot) and he is still very tense and bounces in trot, occasionally leaping. I started to be able to get him to stretch his neck down for short periods but he still does not relax and scoots forwards or bounces with any tiny movement in the saddle. Then yesterday when asking him to turn to the left he reacted violently rearing vertically and bolting across the arena. He then reared 7 or 8 more times (always when asked to turn to the left) at one point breaking the arena fence. I have been told he is just a nappy horse but he is lovely to deal with on the ground so would like to explore all possibilities before putting it down to this. 

Thanks


----------



## xxMozlarxx (7 June 2012)

It certainly does sound pain related..


----------



## BethH (8 June 2012)

The out of the blue explosion whilst being a wonderful person underneath it all does remind me of my horse who had KS and is now 6yrs post op and still a lovely person.

I agree with Mozlar it does sound pain related and the tension and spookiness would lead me to think pain is making him edgy even if low level as they don't feel 100%, it makes them feel a bit vunerable.  Do you know a good equine chiro or body worker to take a look, see if they can get him to dip and arch his back - mine couldn't arch as the crossing bones made it impossible.

On the good news front, the ground work you are doing especially the long reining is absolutely what you shoud be doing to strenghten him if he has ks or in fact anyway! It is how I helped my horse and it was also invaluable as a training tool to gain his trust that I could help him, so you are already doing a great job to help your horse and I would continue with this. 

I think the only way of you knowing for sure is a scan, I am happy to answer any questions you have as I rebacked and carried out the rehab on mine and he did have severe behavioural difficulties which I had to tackle so I have had quite a learning curve.  Best of luck, hopefully it isn't this and is something that can be easily resolved.


----------



## Tammytoo (8 June 2012)

The sudden explosive behaviour is certainly very typical of KS sufferers.  I too had the sweetest and kindest little mare who would explode for no reason and, like you, couldn't believe that it was a behavioural issue as she was such a genuine, willing little horse. 

The ONLY way to diagnose KS is by X.ray and I would suggest you try this first.  It cannot be detected by palpation.


----------



## Wagtail (8 June 2012)

I agree. Have his back xrayed first as this is not terribly expensive and is the only way to know for sure if he has KS. My horse's first symptoms were panicking after the girth was tightened. He was actually very well behaved to ride until the problem became really severe. He would explode under saddle and then stop and tremble. He has had the operation to remove 5 of the impinging spines. He seemed to recover well and I was riding him again. But then he suddenly reverted back to panicking when saddled. He has been turned away for 3 months and I hope to try again in a few weeks.

But your horse is almost certainly reacting to pain. It could be he has KS, but it could be a whole load of other issues such as gastric ulcers or suspensory desmitis, both of which I have seen cause similar behaviour.


----------



## mads236 (9 June 2012)

Thanks for the replies! Have booked him in at the vets for a check up and poss x-rays on Fri so hopefully will find out what is going on (if anything). May be asking more advice once I find out! Good luck with all of your horses and hope everything goes well.


----------



## BethH (11 June 2012)

Good move, positive action is  the way to go, I tried to ignore my ned for too long in the hope it would go away as he was so intermittent and I was quite a novice owner, I wish I'd been more brave quicker!

I truly hope you get an answer and that it is a simple one, but if it does turn out to be KS I am happy to answer any questions as I've pretty much asked the vets all of them!  Good luck to you and fingers crossed, let us know how you get on.


----------



## diamondrockharvey (11 June 2012)

The horse that I ride for a friend of mine recently started exploding for no apparent reason. She is also a very sweet natured horse and very obedient.
She also started to loose her 'forwards' and was very reluctant to canter.
We had her x-rayed last Friday and she has kissing spines. We are reluctant to try cortizone injections as she is prone to laminitis so we are going to go straight in for the operation.
It's such a shame as we were making such progress with her, but I also feel terrible as she must have been in so much pain and was just putting up with it for the most part.
I hope after the operation we can go back to riding her successfully. She is only 10 years old so would be so sad to retire her at this age!
Plus due to the fact that she piles on the pounds so easily she needs to work!


----------



## Tycoongirl (12 June 2012)

Hi, Does anyone know rough price of the xrays for kissing spine?


----------



## ladylady (12 June 2012)

I had my mare x-rayed for kissing spines a couple of weeks ago and it cost about £200 plus the Vets time, another £150.  The x-ray however, was not conclusive so on the recommendation of the Vet I had her bone scanned last thursday at a cost of another £1300.  End result, the bone scan showed no hot spots (or problems) and I still don't know what is wrong with her - very frustrating!


----------



## EstherYoung (13 June 2012)

The one that was had on loan with KS (inoperable involving several spinal processes) had the following symptoms:

- Back would lock/tense up again within 2 weeks of our physio freeing it up
- Sudden explosions, even just in the field, if he turned or moved in a way that hurt him
- Became increasingly grumpy

The thing that really did it for us was that on stronger painkillers he immediately reverted back to the sweet, soppy, amenable horse we knew he was underneath it all  Unfortunately his owner desperately wanted him working so she buted him up to the eyeballs and sent him to be used at the boarding school that is connected to the insurance company whose name we daren't mention, whereby his hocks gave out too.


----------



## GoodyGoody (16 June 2012)

Wagtail's post is salutary. Whilst surgery for KS can help some cases it is rarely the cause in my experience. Why would your horse complain when being girthed up if the pain came from the lumbar region? Pain on girthing is related to the pectoral muscles being tight and constricted (possibly also in the withers). You mentioned he reacted particularly strongly on the left rein. KS is the latest buzz word that everyone looks for because nothing else can be found. If the vertebra look a bit close then hey presto that must be the cause. Hey, it might be but he number of horses suddenly appearing with KS is just a bit suspicious and I refer back to Wagtail's post. I prefer to go for the more obvious options first. Your horse is an athlete. Given that most horses have all their bits in the right place when born and that nature did a reasonable job when designing it then the main problem an athlete will have (ask any human athlete) is with soft tissue starting with the muscles which are the things which create movement and distribute load through the skeleton. xxMozlarxx is a big fan of surgery because it worked for his horse. I am happy for him but I would rather look a little further. He is almost certainly right that the behaviour is pain related. I would suspect blocked muscles which could be caused by a fall, poor riding or training, poor fit saddle. It could be a structural bone problem but that wouldn't be my first port of call. Unfortunately finding someone who can reliably diagnose this sort of problem is not easy as the many posts regarding lameness attest to. Ask 10 vets and you will get 10 different answers. If we assume quite reasonably that there is just one underlying answer, that there IS (are) a cause(s) this makes it tricky for those of us at the wrong end of diagnoses. Who do you trust? Indeed. Your horse will tell you through subtle differences in behaviour and the way it moves as to where the problem originates and your gut feel is not to be sniffed at if you are a sensitive rider.


----------



## Ginger Bear (17 June 2012)

We have a mare with ks, she was x-rayed by our vet, had shock wave therapy, and since we've found an amazing vet in newmarket who is also an osteo..we sent her away to her for 2 weeks, then have taken her back to her every three months. She also is ridden differently & the change in her is amazing. She also used to go round with a high head and tail, very tense etc etc.


----------

