# planning permission and Agricultural land?



## _daisy_ (6 May 2009)

can anyone give me a definition of agricultural land?
i was granted 3 stables, 1 store, menage and equestrian use on 10 acres but managed to keep the land as agricultural as i grow crops and sustain my horses off my land, rather than having to apply for change of use to equestrian.

ive just seen a submission to the council for planning permission: 2 stables on less then 1 acre. They are stating that the land is agricultural land, just becasue when it was owned previously it was agricultural land (part of 40 acres). how can less than 1 acre be agricultural land? 
the only animals they have on the land are chickens. i didnt think that chickens were classed as agricultural?

also if stables have been built doesnt the application need to be retrospective?

sorry for all the questions.


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## jrp204 (6 May 2009)

Chickens are agricultural, you can have 800-1000 free range hens/acre. Stables are not agricultural, if they have been built as 'temporary' they may not have needed planning depending on your council.


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## PennyJ (6 May 2009)

I think you could object to this 2 stables on 1 acre on the basis that the use of the land is intensive, and therefore it is recreational horsekeeping going on as opposed to agricultural land use.  Obviously a horse is not going to derive the majority of its nutritional needs from grazing 1/2 acre 365 days a year.  Grazing is an agricultural activity, assuming the horse does get the majority of its nuttional needs met from grazing.   You want to get on the phone to the planning officer and ask them some questions then write in and formally object.  

I thought chickens did count as agricultural myslef.  I thought that was one of the oldest tricks in the book, buy somewhere with an ag tie and then just keep a few chickens.  I could be wrong though.

If the stables are already built, occupied and in use then yes it ought to be retrospective, but then I have seen houses started round here and be well on their way to roof level before planning permission is granted.


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## _daisy_ (6 May 2009)

ah i thought they werent. there are only about a dozen chucks on the land - oh and the bloody annoying cockrel that screaches its head off at 5 am! lol
the stables are supposedly mobile! well all theyve done is put tie up rings on the bottom of the stables to pretend they are but theyve put them on a base so were never meant to be temporary


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## _daisy_ (6 May 2009)

thanks Penny.
i got refused 5 stables and large store as the scale was too big for the site (yes on 10 acres of land) 
there are never going to be any plans on the owner putting or keeping horses on the land, this is what is annoying.  when they were built the council came out, and the owner has been warned by the council about cutting his grass - hes not allowed to do this more than twice a year, but hes done it 4 times already in the past 2 months.
the stables are/have been occupied by birds for the past few months (well really since November) so i take it it should be retrospective. mmm wonder whats going on witht eh council, thought theyd be quicker to see whats going on. i know he piad building land price for the small plot so i know what hes wanting to do.

think a little phone call to the council to answer a few questions is just what i need to do, oh and to the parish council
thanks again


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## PennyJ (6 May 2009)

You want to speak to the planning enforcement department at the local council.  They usually don't go round looking for things, but will always respond to a complaint.   I think that's probably your best bet.   Specifically make the point that the supposedly mobile stables are ona fixed base.


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## martlin (6 May 2009)

QR
You could complain, object, do all sorts of things... but why would you want to?


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## nokia (6 May 2009)

im glad i dont live by you


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## martlin (6 May 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
im glad i dont live by you 

[/ QUOTE ]
By me? Why? I don't bother any neighbours


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## perfect11s (6 May 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
thanks Penny.
i got refused 5 stables and large store as the scale was too big for the site (yes on 10 acres of land) 
there are never going to be any plans on the owner putting or keeping horses on the land, this is what is annoying.  when they were built the council came out, and the owner has been warned by the council about cutting his grass - hes not allowed to do this more than twice a year, but hes done it 4 times already in the past 2 months.
the stables are/have been occupied by birds for the past few months (well really since November) so i take it it should be retrospective. mmm wonder whats going on witht eh council, thought theyd be quicker to see whats going on. i know he piad building land price for the small plot so i know what hes wanting to do.

think a little phone call to the council to answer a few questions is just what i need to do, oh and to the parish council
thanks again 

[/ QUOTE ] .......   stones and glass houses comes to mind


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## PeterNatt (6 May 2009)

The land will be classified as agricultural land however small the piece of land is until change of use to another purpose is obtained.


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## _daisy_ (7 May 2009)

who said i wanted to complain? all i said was that i would ring the council to answer a few questions!


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## _daisy_ (7 May 2009)

why do you say that?


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## _daisy_ (7 May 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
 ....... stones and glass houses comes to mind 

[/ QUOTE ]

see the problem all stems from a further neighbour who does what they please when they please and the council do jack about it. 
i never said i would complain just that i would ask the council a few questions. 
tbh i couldnt give a toss who gets planning or for what they get planning, it just seems one rule for one and one for another. Suppose it boils down to who is happy to backhand the council and who isnt?


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## BBH (7 May 2009)

IME planning law is a minefield, my application sailed through but I used proper respected planning consultants who put together a thorough application. I got planning for 8 stables, tack room and haybarn on 7 acres. My neighbour who has just bought land is really struggling to get anything approved a, because his application raises more questions than it answers and b, is very unsophisticated and ill thought out and c, he put up a greehouse thing before planning was applied for, they don't like people that demonstrate they will flout the rules.

As an aside I have viewed an awful lot pf planning applications and there subsequent objections and it all seems these objections are by horsey neighbours who don't like to see others get on. Now if someone put something very detrimental like a sewage works on their plot I would be the first to create but a couple of stables is imo expected on land. I hope you are not one of the former. I know you say you are asking questions but why ? to raise the issue / profile of the site ?? Muck rake, make life difficult. There is no need for you to ask questions unless you want to hinder their application. Horse people should stick together. 

Like others have said I am glad I don't live near you.


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## _daisy_ (7 May 2009)

NO i am not the former! like ive said before i dont want to complain/object, I just want to ask a few questions - is there a law against that? 
as i have also previously said the owner never intends to put horses on the land. 
i dont want to see anyone get their plans rejected. the neighbours round our area are very blinkered in their views and only want to see green fields, no stables, no buildings, no animals, no people, no nothing. They hate incomers into the area.

so the comment of "Like others have said I am glad I don't live near you. " is really unfair. How can you judge me in that way? In actual fact, ive helped this guy put his plans together. i gave him details of stable manufactuters, details of how mobile stables work re planning, gave him the name of the architect that did my plans for me. ive done nothing but help this guy, im just wanting to know some answers to questions in case i want to put extra plans in for more stables - eg the 2 extra i originally wanted. 

so surely questioning the council on a few things isnt a problem? maybe it is to you? but like i said, im not going to complain. 
im not objecting to the other plans that have gone in for my other neighbour that has built stables with no planning permission (lots more than 2) which in actual fact were the reason behind me not getting the full original plans.


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## BBH (7 May 2009)

Ok fair enough but if you just want answers to your own general questions why mention your neighbour at all in your post ? The way you wrote came across as if you were out to sabotage his efforts.

 FWIW i'm not sure the Council have a set policy regarding planning for equestrian purposes ( mine anyway) I think from the decisions I've seen locally its all based on merit and each app is considered in isolation unless something that is likely to set a precedent.


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