# Police and Horses - Again!



## Over2You (18 February 2011)

Two men appeared in court after pulling a police officer from his horse during the recent student riots. Another four were also accused of causing violent disorder. However, one act of sheer barbarity went unpunished. You can read about it on H&H news. Take a look at this video. Notice the rider of the horse who spooked the most at the flares. Now read the statement on this page. 

I wrote to the Avon and Somerset police weeks ago saying the following, but am still waiting on a reply.

"I have just seen a video from the Bristol student riots. It clearly showed an officer BEATING his horse with a baton. He raised his arm as far as it could go and brought it down as hard as possible on the horse's hindquarters (not once, but several times). If a horse can feel a fly landing on them, they can certainly feel the full force of a baton (padding or not). 

A statement from Sergeant Kerry Williams says: "The mounted officers follow strict training protocol in calming and controlling their horses in potentially volatile situations". Beating a horse into submission is considered a basic training protocol? Natural horsemen like Monty Roberts and Chris Cox, prove time after time, there is no need to whip them. The horse could just as easily have been brought under control through an emergency stop. Whereby one rein is shortened to the point that the horse has to bend his/her neck and has no other choice than to stop moving forwards. To beat an already panicked horse is unforgivable. All that officer did was justify the horse's fear.

Also from Sergeant Kerry Williams: "the officer concerned had to make a snap decision to get the horse under control, for the sake of the public safety and that of the nearby foot officers". What public? The horse ran in the opposite direction of the crowd line. The foot officers were in no danger either as they were standing several metres away. Has Sergeant Williams actually seen the video?  I have seen it a number of times and it sickens me."

I will be contacting them again, now that details of the court case have been revealed. I will let them know that there should have been seven being brought up on charges. I urge you all to do the same.


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## Amymay (18 February 2011)

This was done to death at the time.




			Beating a horse into submission is considered a basic training protocol?
		
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And as for beating the horse - hardly.  But very obviously giving it good wack with his batton.


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## Pipkin (18 February 2011)

Let the bunny hugging commence


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## MadisonBelle (18 February 2011)

Hmmm yes he gave it a good whack, more than once but I still blame those that threw the flares or whatever they were...............


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## martlin (18 February 2011)

yawn...


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## Amaranta (18 February 2011)

I am sure you brought this up before and got shot down in flames that time too.

Honestly, that horse was NOT beaten mercilessly, there are horses suffering far worse in this country than any horse in that video.


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## Brontie (18 February 2011)

Oh my. You weren't there, You can't comment. If I was the officer, i'ld have done the same! A couple of smacks with a stick, is better than a couple of officers being trampled by an uncontrolled horse. And it's hardly a 'beating'.


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## Over2You (18 February 2011)

Amaranta said:



			I am sure you brought this up before and got shot down in flames that time too.

Honestly, that horse was NOT beaten mercilessly, there are horses suffering far worse in this country than any horse in that video.
		
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Nope - it was not me. I only brought it up again after the recent court case. I did look through the main thread in the New Lounge and the poster hardly "got shot down in flames". A great many agreed that it *WAS* a beating! If only you could see the damage under the skin of a whipped/beaten horse. It is *NOT* pretty.


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## Over2You (18 February 2011)

Brontie said:



			Oh my. You weren't there, You can't comment. If I was the officer, i'ld have done the same! A couple of smacks with a stick, is better than a couple of officers being trampled by an uncontrolled horse. And it's hardly a 'beating'.
		
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Next time you get a fright, I will give you a couple of good hard smacks. See how much you condone it then.


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## Holly Hocks (18 February 2011)

Over2You said:



			Next time you get a fright, I will give you a couple of good hard smacks. See how much you condone it then. 

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Let the anthropomorphism commence......you should have put this in NL - you would have got far more response......did you really expect the officer to get off his horse and start Monty Roberts training??  It was a Police Horse - it was there to do it's job and it reacted wrongly.  To be honest, I don't like the fact that horses are used at all by the Police, however while they are being used, I will support the officers who work with them.


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## HashRouge (18 February 2011)

I really really hate that video. At the start it looks like a perfect example of a peaceful protest, with one of the protesters stroking the police horse. And then some absolute IDIOT throws a firecracker or whatever it was, scares the hell out of the horses and sets the crowd off. Complete idiocy.

I'm inclined to think the police officer who whacked his horse was also a bit of a **** though. He looked like he had reasonable control over the horse when he whacked it, so I dislike the arguments that he had to make a split second decision to ensure the safety of the crowd etc etc (yeah, like the police were bothered about that when they were charging the protesters in London!). I'm not a fluffy bunny and I know that horse is extremely well off compared to a lot of the world's horses, but I really dislike people who whack a horse for no reason.


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## Over2You (19 February 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			Let the anthropomorphism commence......you should have put this in NL - you would have got far more response......did you really expect the officer to get off his horse and start Monty Roberts training??  It was a Police Horse - it was there to do it's job and it reacted wrongly.  To be honest, I don't like the fact that horses are used at all by the Police, however while they are being used, I will support the officers who work with them.
		
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Eh, no - I did not expect the officer to get off his horse. What I would have expected was that the emergency stop (I mentioned earlier) be taught to officers *BEFORE* a situation like this arises. There are no excuses at all for this. I am sick to death of people defending this thug for beating his horse. The horse was scared and the last thing the poor creature needed was the full force of a baton! How would you like it if this officer (while 'protecting') the public, beat on you horse? If I caught anyone (police or not), doing anything like that to my boy, I would beat them up. I might be charged, but at least I would know I had defended an innocent animal.


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## Mithras (19 February 2011)

Far too much focus on the unimportant detail and too little seeing of the big picture (and indeed of common sense).  Thankfully theres no danger of public resources being wasted on this non-issue.


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## AndySpooner (19 February 2011)

As usual, an awful lot of hypocrisy on the HH forum, I recall the Linda Parelli video and all the fuss, yet people beating horses with whips is ok, so long as they are race horses, Police horses or being 'naughty' which could be 'dangerous'.

My view is that Police horses should not be used in these riot situations as the risk of injury has now become too great. I have seen people throwing darts at them or using stanley knives to slash them, never mind fire crackers.

If the mounted officers were free to allow the horses to strike out and kick like true cavalry, and indescriminant use of the batton on anyone who was near enough to hit, then fair enough. Because the law applies rules to the amount of force the Police can use, but not on the crowd, the horses become a target which are not adequately protected by the law.

There is no reason to use horses in these situations.


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## Depp_by_Chocolate (19 February 2011)

AndySpooner said:



			As usual, an awful lot of hypocrisy on the HH forum, I recall the Linda Parelli video and all the fuss, yet people beating horses with whips is ok, so long as they are race horses, Police horses or being 'naughty' which could be 'dangerous'.

My view is that Police horses should not be used in these riot situations as the risk of injury has now become too great. I have seen people throwing darts at them or using stanley knives to slash them, never mind fire crackers.

If the mounted officers were free to allow the horses to strike out and kick like true cavalry, and indescriminant use of the batton on anyone who was near enough to hit, then fair enough. Because the law applies rules to the amount of force the Police can use, but not on the crowd, the horses become a target which are not adequately protected by the law.

There is no reason to use horses in these situations.
		
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I fully agree, but then I have said for many years there is no reason to have horses in the modern day police force.


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## somethingorother (19 February 2011)

Depp_by_Chocolate said:



			I fully agree, but then I have said for many years there is no reason to have horses in the modern day police force.
		
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I agree too, i don't see how they were useful at all in this situation.

The horse was kind of in a lose lose situation from the start there.


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## Whoopit (22 February 2011)

In fairness, I don't think you can really tell from the footage whether he did in fact hit the horse. That side of the horse is turned away from camera?


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## 1stclassalan (24 February 2011)

HashRouge said:



			I really really hate that video. At the start it looks like a perfect example of a peaceful protest, with one of the protesters stroking the police horse. And then some absolute IDIOT throws a firecracker or whatever it was, scares the hell out of the horses and sets the crowd off. Complete idiocy.

I'm inclined to think the police officer who whacked his horse was also a bit of a **** though. He looked like he had reasonable control over the horse when he whacked it, so I dislike the arguments that he had to make a split second decision to ensure the safety of the crowd etc etc (yeah, like the police were bothered about that when they were charging the protesters in London!). I'm not a fluffy bunny and I know that horse is extremely well off compared to a lot of the world's horses, but I really dislike people who whack a horse for no reason.
		
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Completely correct. The guy who hits his horse did so because it had turned around and he couldn't get it to obey him any other way. Hardly the best bit of horsemanship I've seen this week.

I carried a 4ft dressage whip riding out and only ever used it as an extended hand aid - I could lay it on my mare's hind quarters without her flinching though she would move gently away from it every time and she also learned the command "stand" with the whip on was an important safety issue and gave her a opportunity to look about with her most imperious expression!


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## Sarah Sum1 (24 February 2011)

AndySpooner said:



			As usual, an awful lot of hypocrisy on the HH forum, I recall the Linda Parelli video and all the fuss, yet people beating horses with whips is ok, so long as they are race horses, Police horses or being 'naughty' which could be 'dangerous'.

My view is that Police horses should not be used in these riot situations as the risk of injury has now become too great. I have seen people throwing darts at them or using stanley knives to slash them, never mind fire crackers.

If the mounted officers were free to allow the horses to strike out and kick like true cavalry, and indescriminant use of the batton on anyone who was near enough to hit, then fair enough. Because the law applies rules to the amount of force the Police can use, but not on the crowd, the horses become a target which are not adequately protected by the law.

There is no reason to use horses in these situations.
		
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Agreed.

I hate seeing these horses looking so frightened and having to go against every instinct in  their bodies, yet not knowing why. It makes me very sad. I wish the police could use rubber bullets or some kind of non killing weapon instead.

It would aslo seem that the horse was not that out of control, the policeman seemed to have more control over the horse than was suggested. But not having been there, I am not in a position to comment really. Just wish horses were not used.

ETA The thought of thugs throwing darts and slashing the horses with stanley knives makes me feel sick


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## CorvusCorax (24 February 2011)

Have you got nothing better to do? There is real live actual animal cruelty going on a lot closer to all of us than on the streets of London.

Any one of us can write a snotty letter to the cops, well done, have a gold star! 

The real animal 'activists' are out there on the ground, getting their hands dirty.


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## Brontie (24 February 2011)

Over2You said:



			Next time you get a fright, I will give you a couple of good hard smacks. See how much you condone it then. 

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Please do, if I was a risk to those around me, a few smacks would be expected as minimum.


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## Over2You (25 February 2011)

Brontie said:



			Please do, if I was a risk to those around me, a few smacks would be expected as minimum.
		
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What risk was the horse actually posing? As seen in the video, the horse ran in the *OPPOSITE* direction of the crowd line. The foot officers were standing several metres away from the oh-so-dangerous horse. And I would love to take you up on your offer. Then you can report back saying how much a few smacks helped you. 

For those of you thinking the officer did not hit the horse. Read the statement. The sergeant said: 

"One officer used a baton to gain control of his horse which had been spooked by fireworks or firecrackers, and actually struck the horse on a padded covering on their hind quarters." She added: "We would never advocate the use of baton by an officer to strike a horse."

So, the horse *WAS* struck!! The police themselves are actually admitting it. As for her second quip; did she go out of her way to contradict herself?


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## Pipkin (25 February 2011)

Over2You said:



			What risk was the horse actually posing? As seen in the video, the horse ran in the *OPPOSITE* direction of the crowd line. The foot officers were standing several metres away from the oh-so-dangerous horse. 

For those of you thinking the officer did not hit the horse. Read the statement. The sergeant said: 

"One officer used a baton to gain control of his horse which had been spooked by fireworks or firecrackers, and actually struck the horse on a padded covering on their hind quarters." She added: "We would never advocate the use of baton by an officer to strike a horse."

So, the horse *WAS* struck!! The police themselves are actually admitting it. As for her second quip; did she go out of her way to contradict herself?
		
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Ah the thread is still going 

The horse may have been several metres away from the foot officers but exactly how long does it take a horse to move another several metres?
The officer done what he thought was needed, he reduced the risk of someone getting hurt.
 For god sake have you seen some of the kicks and fights horses have between themselves, a couple of smacks with a batton is not going to do much damage on a well muscled ass...they`re big strong animals if he hurt the horse can more or less guarantee that Mr big bad police man would have hit the deck.


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## EquestrianType (25 February 2011)

Good grief!!..the old 'out-raged' horse box still chugging on over this one!....
Give it a rest sweety...you were not on the horse at the time(can you ride?)
You sound like the type of self styled moaner/expert who vents at anything they deem wrong and sod anyone else.
Better still YOU ride a horse that size in the situation he was at the time rather than quote Monty Roberts etc..anyone can talk a good ride.
Any condemnation for the little *****s causing the trouble in the first place!!...


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## Pipkin (25 February 2011)

EquestrianType said:



			Good grief!!..the old 'out-raged' horse box still chugging on over this one!....
Give it a rest sweety...you were not on the horse at the time(can you ride?)
You sound like the type of self styled moaner/expert who vents at anything they deem wrong and sod anyone else.
Better still YOU ride a horse that size in the situation he was at the time rather than quote Monty Roberts etc..anyone can talk a good ride.
Any condemnation for the little *****s causing the trouble in the first place!!...
		
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Tee hee can you imagine jumping of said horse and attempting join up


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## Piglet (25 February 2011)

Whoops, not very good PR for the mounted officer  but at the end of the day they are reacting quickly and bravely to an extreme situation of yobs on the rampage - brave guys and the horses are trained to a very high standard, think of the carnage if that horse had bolted?  Injured officers in the line behind (although they were brave to follow so close behind half a ton of horseflesh in a riot situation, horse bolting down the street in panic and possibly colliding with cars or falling down on the road?  Whether it is right or wrong, I have seen people beating a horse for far less "sins" at the end of the day.


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## Orange Peel. (25 February 2011)

I have a friend that cracked ribs being hit with a baton so not a nice video, however I respect all mounted police for having the guts to take control and ride in a riot situation. It could have ended a lot worse for all concerned and he did what he thought was best in the situation he was faced with, that horse is much better off compared to some horses..


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## Over2You (25 February 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			Have you got nothing better to do? There is real live actual animal cruelty going on a lot closer to all of us than on the streets of London.

Any one of us can write a snotty letter to the cops, well done, have a gold star! 

The real animal 'activists' are out there on the ground, getting their hands dirty.
		
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So beating (the police have admitted the horse was struck) an animal is okay, just as long as it is the police doing it? 

The police will *ALWAYS* get away with being cruel to animals. The Yorkshire shootings in which they got away scot free with shooting a horse more than a dozen times. These monsters are *STILL* employed by the police!! As is this monster, as are these and the ones responsible for this botched raid.

But, I guess you'll just get back to me saying these are not examples of police brutality and the police can do no wrong.

If more 'snooty' letters were written, then more of these thugs with badges would be behind bars. Or at the very least looking for employment elsewhere.


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## combat_claire (25 February 2011)

The trouble is you can look at a video and still not know the full facts of what was actually happening. We don't know whether that horse was a youngster on his first riot duty or an older horse that was just being nappy and had been fully trained.

I am not in favour of beating horses senseless, but in certain situations they need to be reminded of their manners.


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## SirenaXVI (25 February 2011)

Over2You said:



			So beating (the police have admitted the horse was struck) an animal is okay, just as long as it is the police doing it? 

The police will *ALWAYS* get away with being cruel to animals. The Yorkshire shootings in which they got away scot free with shooting a horse more than a dozen times. These monsters are *STILL* employed by the police!! As is this monster, as are these and the ones responsible for this botched raid.

But, I guess you'll just get back to me saying these are not examples of police brutality and the police can do no wrong.

If more 'snooty' letters were written, then more of these thugs with badges would be behind bars. Or at the very least looking for employment elsewhere.
		
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Dear God you really are a drama queen, the horse was not 'beaten' he was struck ONCE!  You need to get your teeth into preventing some real abuse rather than making yourself look completely demented on here.

As for your other hysterical comments, you obviously have some sort of bugbear with the police force.


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## the watcher (25 February 2011)

If you are working with horses (as opposed to keeping one as some kind of cuddly pet) you soon realise that the only place to be is at the head of the herd, especially at times of crisis. Therefore you will do whatever needs to be done to ensure that the horse remembers who is in charge - sometimes it doesn't look pretty, it may be very firm, that doesn't make it wrong or cruel.


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## CorvusCorax (26 February 2011)

Over2You said:



			If more 'snooty' letters were written, then more of these thugs with badges would be behind bars. Or at the very least looking for employment elsewhere.
		
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Really? I mean, REALLY?! 

I wasn't there sat on that horse in a riot situation. Neither were you. It's easy to sit and pass judgement from our armchairs. 
Not looking at your other links as I'm not a big fan of comparing apples with oranges, which is what a lot of posters tend to try and do on here, when people don't agree with them.

By the way, Watcher, thanks for getting me hooked on the Inspector Gadget blog  try popping on there, Over2You, and see how long you last...


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## Spudlet (26 February 2011)

Good old Inspector Gadget, a highly addictive blog. It's the only blog I comment on with any kind of regularity!

Having been on a very small cob that leapt the entire width of a road, from a walk, sideways, in one, I would say a big fit police horse could cover a few metres very quickly indeed... Not an ideal solution, but no lasting harm done, and possibly far more serious harm averted. IMO at least.


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## the watcher (26 February 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			By the way, Watcher, thanks for getting me hooked on the Inspector Gadget blog  try popping on there, Over2You, and see how long you last...
		
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You're welcome, good, isn't it


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