# Cropped ears: Is it likely that...



## GirlFriday (21 November 2017)

... I actually saw a dog with these on a walk this evening?

Dog looked something like a leggier staffie/small American pitbull type and was, I think, young. Black coated (maybe a white foot or similar) and with that slightly gangly 'not sure where the ends of my legs are yet' look. It definitely had a longish dock which looked badly done (6-8 inches of tail left with a sort of balloon-ish shape for the last half of that) but I suppose maybe it was still healing and will go down later?

But the ears also looked decidedly odd and reminded me of the pics of cropped cane corsos you see. I'd have asked owner but I wasn't alone and had picked up my dog as soon as this one got remotely near (it was on a lead and the (teenage hoody type) chap it was with seemed friendly  - I do know I'm supposed to let my animal be torn to bits rather than get injured myself in extremis).

Saw it off lead later on our walk and TBH, although the child I was with commented that the lad was being nice to his dog (he was), I got both child and my dog out of there asap. Which is, I suppose, why people have ear cropping done really (assuming we're ignoring the 'stops them getting bitten off in fights' argument for it).

Odd I know, given that I see mutilated tails on and off (thankfully a lot less often than when i was a kid) to have felt slightly shaken at the idea of that going on locally. But I did. Hence posting really...


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## PucciNPoni (21 November 2017)

maybe the dogs you saw were imported.


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## MotherOfChickens (21 November 2017)

It is being done over here, there's a breeder selling corso pups in Bedfordshire that have been cropped-one parent is an import. He's been reported to the relevant authorities at least once. So I wouldn't say it was impossible.


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## alainax (21 November 2017)

I saw a young dog at the vets for his jags with what looked like cropped ears. Cut into a point. The line the were cut was unnatural looking as was how the skin had healed. Had a very short dock too. I did wonder if the ear thing was common practice these days.


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## CorvusCorax (21 November 2017)

Could have been imported or a home made job. I see quite a few cropped dobes still. Usually from eastern Europe. And some large bull breeds. It's usually for aesthetics, dobes aren't fighters.

It's not illegal in all parts of the UK, just England and Wales I think. And of course you can't bring them to Kennel Club events.


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## MurphysMinder (21 November 2017)

As PnP says it is possible the dog was imported.  A friend has 2 cropped (and docked) dobes which came from Germany.  
Shocking that someone is cropping over here .  As far as I'm aware there is no legitimate reason for it , unlike docking,  so I presume it is not being done by a vet.


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## Moobli (21 November 2017)

I also recently saw a cropped/docked Dobermann on Arran and assumed it was probably an import.  There does seem to be more and more imported cropped dogs being sold on various working dog forums.


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## Moobli (21 November 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			It's not illegal in all parts of the UK, just England and Wales I think. And of course you can't bring them to Kennel Club events.
		
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Wow - so cropping of dog's ears is still legal in Scotland?  I had no idea, and am quite shocked if that is the case.


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## CorvusCorax (21 November 2017)

I could be wrong, it happens a lot lol. But that was my understanding.

You can usually tell which ones have been done abroad and which ones have been done behind a garage....


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## Moobli (21 November 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			I could be wrong, it happens a lot lol. But that was my understanding.

You can usually tell which ones have been done abroad and which ones have been done behind a garage....
		
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I will look into it and have noticed google searches mention it is illegal in England and Wales, but no mention of Scotland and Northern Ireland.


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## rara007 (21 November 2017)

There&#8217;s quite a few in Essex  Mostly imported as far as I&#8217;m aware.


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## GirlFriday (21 November 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			Wow - so cropping of dog's ears is still legal in Scotland?  I had no idea, and am quite shocked if that is the case.
		
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Not any more: https://www.rcvs.org.uk/setting-sta...y-surgeons/supporting-guidance/miscellaneous/ 

Looks as though they were behind E&W but have now over taken.

Sad to hear that there are instances all over. I doubt this was an import (because of the age) but suppose it could be. Still a shame. If you want a fierce looking bull breed then there are many thousands in shelters all over the UK...


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## catxx (21 November 2017)

I've seen a cropped Dobe being walked near me. With very saggy doggy boobies too, an import I would say whose churned out several litters.


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## CorvusCorax (21 November 2017)

Why would age preclude it being an import? Pups can be brought in after a certain age as long as they have passport and rabies vaccine.

Boxers, Schnauzers, Great Danes all used to be cropped as well.


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## catxx (21 November 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			Why would age preclude it being an import? Pups can be brought in after a certain age as long as they have passport and rabies vaccine.

Rotts, Boxers, Schnauzers, Great Danes all used to be cropped as well.
		
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It's over 15 weeks for importing (doesn't count the bazillion smuggled in as young as 4 weeks though)


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## rara007 (21 November 2017)

Quite a few crops need quite a bit of time 'taped' (not sure on technical lingo) to get the right 'set'......


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## Clodagh (21 November 2017)

I really like the look of cropped ears. I wouldn't have one though, it does seem needlessly barbaric. At least there is an argument pro docking, or amputation in the case of my adult lab, but I cannot see any positives at all for cropping, other than giving the owner a thrill.


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## Moobli (21 November 2017)

Clodagh said:



			I really like the look of cropped ears. I wouldn't have one though, it does seem needlessly barbaric. At least there is an argument pro docking, or amputation in the case of my adult lab, but I cannot see any positives at all for cropping, other than giving the owner a thrill.
		
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I think cropped ears on Dobes, Danes etc give them a much more alert look which I really like, but I couldn't justify the procedure just for a certain look.


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## Moobli (21 November 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Not any more: https://www.rcvs.org.uk/setting-sta...y-surgeons/supporting-guidance/miscellaneous/ 

Looks as though they were behind E&W but have now over taken.

Sad to hear that there are instances all over. I doubt this was an import (because of the age) but suppose it could be. Still a shame. If you want a fierce looking bull breed then there are many thousands in shelters all over the UK...
		
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Oh thanks for that.  I was surprised as Scotland does seem to be relatively forward thinking in terms of animal welfare.  Having said that, Wales have successfully banned the use of electric collars but the rest of the UK haven't yet followed suit.


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## CorvusCorax (21 November 2017)

I know people who think that neutering and spaying is mutilation. I've no strong views on docking, cropping seems to be more of a looks thing and a lot of the times it looks naff to be honest.


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## Cinnamontoast (21 November 2017)

A mates little Spanish rescue has most of her ears chopped off, poor baby. Shes very timid. What does age have to do with importing? Adults and pups can be imported.

 I think Eire still allows docking and people import from there with this in mind.


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## GirlFriday (22 November 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			What does age have to do with importing?
		
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Erm, not to put too fine a point on it... given the location, accent, dress, youth and so forth of the owner it didn't seem likely that they would have had the funds to import a/for a recently imported pup. An older dog imported by someone else would have had time to be passed around a bit before ending up where I met it.

Not too say that the chap won't turn out to be some kind of teenage internet millionaire with an interest in rescuing mutilated dogs from overseas of course. But that was not my initial impression.


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## Cinnamontoast (22 November 2017)

Judgy! A mate working at the RVC was gifted a very well bred chi because the footballer&#8221;s daughter was bored of her. Another mate was just given a pom from abroad because the owner decided it wasn&#8217;t the right breed for her. They&#8217;re both youngsters, the mates I mean and we&#8217;re given pups.


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## HashRouge (22 November 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			Judgy! A mate working at the RVC was gifted a very well bred chi because the footballer&#8221;s daughter was bored of her. Another mate was just given a pom from abroad because the owner decided it wasn&#8217;t the right breed for her. They&#8217;re both youngsters, the mates I mean and we&#8217;re given pups.
		
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The whole of the OP was judgy tbh


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## PucciNPoni (22 November 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			Wow - so cropping of dog's ears is still legal in Scotland?  I had no idea, and am quite shocked if that is the case.
		
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errr, no it's not.  And neither is docking of tails.


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## Moobli (22 November 2017)

PucciNPoni said:



			errr, no it's not.  And neither is docking of tails.
		
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I knew about tail docking so couldn't possibly see how cropping would be allowed!


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## PucciNPoni (22 November 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			I knew about tail docking so couldn't possibly see how cropping would be allowed!
		
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Even dew claw removal can be a bit iffy as far as I understand.  But if they are causing problems with getting snagged and torn, they can be removed.  Not sure about whether legally they can be done on a litter, or whether a vet will do them.  

I came to the UK 16 years ago with my middle aged miniature pinschers who were both cropped and docked.  Even then I used to get looks like I was evil-incarnate.  However they were imported and while docking in the UK wasn't illegal then, I believe ear cropping was and people just assume that you've had them done illegally here.  Odd, isn't it, especially when the owner clearly has a foreign accent...

As for tail docking NOW, as far as I know they can't even with special authority for working dogs be done in Scotland.


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## CorvusCorax (22 November 2017)

Blame me PnP


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## PucciNPoni (22 November 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			Blame me PnP 

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slap!  LOL


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## CorvusCorax (22 November 2017)

Did you feel well'ard walking down the street with your minpins?


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## GirlFriday (22 November 2017)

HashRouge said:



			The whole of the OP was judgy tbh
		
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#NotEvenPretendingToBeSorryNotSorry

There are not likely to be any pro footballers or RVC employees living on my council estate. Some lovely people. But not many wealthy enough to be importing dogs for their teenage kids. And sadly not a high proportion of the teenage lads have jobs (at the RVC or elsewhere!).

I feel perfectly entitled to be 'judgy' about the (illegal) 'mutilation' (RCVS description) of a puppy's ears. Society has been 'judgy' about that since at least 1899 time you got over it? ;-)

I like where I live but it does not appeal to the wealthy and I understand that. Being realistic about the demographic of one's neighbourhood is not judgy. And like I said, could always turn out to be someone who got lost on their way home to their country pile ;-)


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## PucciNPoni (22 November 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			Did you feel well'ard walking down the street with your minpins?
		
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lol hardly!  Sometimes people would come up and say "oh look at the puppies!"


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## PucciNPoni (22 November 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			#NotEvenPretendingToBeSorryNotSorry

There are not likely to be any pro footballers or RVC employees living on my council estate. Some lovely people. But not many wealthy enough to be importing dogs for their teenage kids. And sadly not a high proportion of the teenage lads have jobs (at the RVC or elsewhere!).

I feel perfectly entitled to be 'judgy' about the (illegal) 'mutilation' (RCVS description) of a puppy's ears. Society has been 'judgy' about that since at least 1899 time you got over it? ;-)

I like where I live but it does not appeal to the wealthy and I understand that. Being realistic about the demographic of one's neighbourhood is not judgy. And like I said, could always turn out to be someone who got lost on their way home to their country pile ;-)
		
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Oddly enough in dog showing circles, dogs are owned by lots of people rich and poor.  People who have no money to speak of will spend every single last penny on dog show entries, and import quality dogs from abroad.  Just because someone imports a dog doesn't mean they're loaded.


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## GirlFriday (22 November 2017)

The maximum unemployment benefit for 16-24 year old is £56.80 per week. Out of which they have to feed themselves etc... Which wouldn't leave a lot for saving.

This was not a dog in any fit state to show (because of the swollen/lumpy dock and also because you can't show ear cropped dogs) but you're right, some people of all (lack of) income levels do prioritise their pets and I applaud that.

ETA: if it wouldn't feel like an invasion of his privacy I'd be tempted to chat a little more with the lad next time I see him just so I can post back on this thread with more details!


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## blackcob (22 November 2017)

PucciNPoni said:



			As for tail docking NOW, as far as I know they can't even with special authority for working dogs be done in Scotland.
		
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Sadly they relaxed it again in June - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40357585


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## PucciNPoni (22 November 2017)

blackcob said:



			Sadly they relaxed it again in June - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40357585

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voted yes, but not necessarily enacted?


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## MotherOfChickens (22 November 2017)

I dont understand how anyone can think the ear cropped look is desirable, they just look like dogs with mutilated ears to me.


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## GirlFriday (22 November 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			they just look like dogs with mutilated ears to me.
		
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This ^. I saw it again today. 

Did not enquire as to high-powered night-shift work the owner obviously does at the RVC which allowed him to be drinking on a park bench during the day ;-)


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## Moobli (22 November 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			The maximum unemployment benefit for 16-24 year old is £56.80 per week. Out of which they have to feed themselves etc... Which wouldn't leave a lot for saving.

This was not a dog in any fit state to show (because of the swollen/lumpy dock and also because you can't show ear cropped dogs) but you're right, some people of all (lack of) income levels do prioritise their pets and I applaud that.

ETA: if it wouldn't feel like an invasion of his privacy I'd be tempted to chat a little more with the lad next time I see him just so I can post back on this thread with more details!
		
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Maybe he is a drug dealer?


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## GirlFriday (22 November 2017)

Actually he seems perfectly sweet.

Around here there isn't very very much drug dealing (although plenty of pot smoking) but there used to be a lot of those moped gangs that were driving to the posher neighbourhoods, swiping phones and handbags etc. We had a big crack down from the police (temporary covert cctv installed to see who was riding which mopeds etc) and that reduced it somewhat for a while.

Am on residents association so we get updates from the local police...


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