# Cytek shoes



## nat_a_528 (18 August 2010)

Hi guys

Just has cyteks put on my Tb mare!
Since having them done I have heard nothing but negative things about them.

Does anyone have any advice ,exoeriences or opinions on them ?
ARe they ok or should I have them taken off??

Thanks


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## ISHmad (18 August 2010)

I've had no direct experience of these but a friend of mine had a shocking experience using them.  She isn't on here unfortunately otherwise I'd point her in your direction.  

Was there a particular reason you went for Cytek rather than conventional shoeing?  

Would stress again I'm not Cytek bashing as know nothing about it, other than having seen first hand the shocking state of my friends horse when he came out of them.


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## Crazy Friesian (18 August 2010)

DO NOT USE THEM!!! HAVE THEM TAKEN OFF! You are buying yourself a whole load of trouble!!! If you want to know the details PM me. I have first hand experience from the top man himself...


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## berry (18 August 2010)

It says something when the man who came up with the concept wont even fit them no more he has gone back to rimmed shoes!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are not a everyday shoe even though there are some farriers who think they are!!!


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## nat_a_528 (18 August 2010)

Ok now im really worried the guy who fitted them said they last longer and are better as reduce flare and spread the weight evenly across the hoof rather than just the wall!


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## berry (18 August 2010)

may I ask the farriers name??? Pm me if prefered.


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## Meowy Catkin (18 August 2010)

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1705

An interesting read.


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## Ritzyroo (18 August 2010)

My only knowledge/experience of these cytek things was a friend had them for a VERY short while after his, then, farrier suggested it'd be a fantastic idea. So they tried it on one horse. Well his horses work for a living (weddings/filming) etc so are out in the lorry several times a week. The horse found it awkward to get up the ramp as there is no toe to grip onto the ramp. I dont think he ever fell flat on his face cos of this but evenso - not the best of inventions.........


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## ISHmad (18 August 2010)

nat_a_528 said:



			Ok now im really worried the guy who fitted them said they last longer and are better as reduce flare and spread the weight evenly across the hoof rather than just the wall!
		
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Mmmmmm, sorry but certainly wasn't the case with my friends horse.  I wish she would join and show you the photos of her horse after Cytex shoes.  One foot in particular looked cloven because of the horrendous amount of flare.  It got infected and he had to have a huge re-section of his foot.  This is not scaremongering, it is fact.


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## LauraWheeler (18 August 2010)

I've never used them myself as didn't like the idea. But I know a few people who had them put on there horses when they first came out and none of the horses were sound with them on, it took a while for them to come right when normal shoes were put back on. They are nothing but trouble as far as i'm concerned. Sorry  but i'd get them off ASAP.


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## the watcher (18 August 2010)

I have used them in the past, put on by a trained and much respected farrier. They did make an improvement to the horse I used them on but they were not a long term plan, more of a remedial shoe in the way that we used them.

I certainly never had any problems with them when they were on but I do understand that there is an awful lot of opposition to them.


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## Mrs B (18 August 2010)

I've never heard a good report about them or seen a horse benefit so far, but perhaps an HHO farrier would like to comment?


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## Fransurrey (30 May 2011)

I had them on Henry very briefly, years ago. Can't comment on damage to feet as he only went one cycle and I had to remove them myself as the farrier involved had some 'issues' of his own (not connected to me!), so never had them fitted again. I can report though that Henry slid all over the place with them on. They were goddam awful on the roads!!


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## Thistle (30 May 2011)

They are horrid things, I have known a horse lamed by them. Natural Balance shoes look a bit similar but are very good.


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## unbalanced (30 May 2011)

I used them before, years ago. The reason I switched was because I was in my teens and did whatever the dressage trainer at my yard told me to. She switched her horses to cytek. The regular shoes farrier was being crap - late and stuff and not very nice to my horse so I asked her who else to use - she told me to use the cytek guy, so I did. He shod my horse for regular shoes for about two years and she was absolutely fine and stayed perfectly sound in them.
Then my horse went out on loan and moved out of the area. There was no cytek farrier in loaner's area so she went back into regular shoes. She stayed perfectly sound. Now I have the horse back and she is still in regular shoes and fine. My understanding of cytek (not very deep, and quoted almost entirely from my own farrier) is that it was just a fad. I don't think that dressage trainer's horses are in cytek shoes any more, out of interest.


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## DiablosGold (30 May 2011)

A friend of mine had them on her horse.  Vet recommended she replaced them with traditional shoes.  My (excellent) farrier has nothing good to say about them. 

Sorry!


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## Angua2 (30 May 2011)

Um.... oh.... er.... ah

My Old boy had them on when I got him in 2003, the owners had them fitted as he was a last chance saloon due to a broken pedal bone in both fronts.  They too were told that the shoes lasted longer, and therefore could extend the shoeing intervals to 3 monthly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MMMM...... I inherited a horse with a broken hoof axis, with collapsed heals, long toes and all the other associated problems that these bring. And funny shaped feet where they had been made to fit the shoes and an incorrect breakover.  I was given the number for a cytek farrier and he couldn't come for another 6 weeks.... funnily enough I ended up using the yard farrier.  Sadly the damage was done, and we could never correct the damage that these shoes had done.  My boy spend the last years of his life with me in horsetrax pads and bar shoes.

My inital thought was that cytek shoes are good as a remedial shoe, however since getting older, wiser and doing a lot more research I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, and if I needed to look at that type of shoeing I would seriously look at natural balance.


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## Angel123 (14 June 2011)

Drove my pony last night sound as a bell and been on cytek for years! Very happy pony and owner.


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## aimsymc (14 June 2011)

sorry for being a dunce, i have no idea what theese are could someone explain? x


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## mossolb (23 July 2011)

CrazyFriesian said:



			DO NOT USE THEM!!! HAVE THEM TAKEN OFF! You are buying yourself a whole load of trouble!!! If you want to know the details PM me. I have first hand experience from the top man himself...
		
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I, too, have had first hand experience from the top man. 

I am very happy with his sincerity, committment and care for my horses. 
They are both sounder in gait, stride and posture since being shod with cytek.
I know of several people who are equally satisfied and who have horses that are now pain free and sound.

Maybe you didn't get "the top man" after all. Also why so secretive - can't you post your opinions here?


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## mossolb (23 July 2011)

aimsymc said:



			sorry for being a dunce, i have no idea what theese are could someone explain? x
		
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Try these links for info. http://www.cytekhorse.com/, http://www.cytekhorse.com/media/horse/your_horse.pdf, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWmPkzukWBQ


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## ferrador (24 July 2011)

just as a matter of interest , exactly which farrier " invented " the cytec shoe, and what is this patent you talk about ? another, who is the head farrier you have not named ? how many countries have published written official warnings about the practice of cytec shoeing ?
chris


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## teddyt (24 July 2011)

nat_a_528 said:



			Hi guys

Just has cyteks put on my Tb mare!
Since having them done I have heard nothing but negative things about them.

Does anyone have any advice ,exoeriences or opinions on them ?
ARe they ok or should I have them taken off??

Thanks
		
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I have no personal experience and dont know anything about theses shoes. However if I were you I would ask your farrier why he has chosen to shoe your horse with them and what he thinks the benefits are for your horse. Do it with the horse in front of you both.

Make sure any positive reasons are for your individual horse, not positive things about the actual shoes themselves- there is a difference.

Then you can do more homework because you will know why your horse has been shod that way. Just because something works/doesn't work for one horse doesn't mean that will be the same for another. 

If the reasons don't make sense then take them off!


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## wytsend (24 July 2011)

Have nothing but preaise for the original Cytek shoes.... saved the life of one horse that went on to a considerable sum showjumping.  Used them on several horses in all.

A later version which was made available in 2004/5  I didn't like as it caused thrush in one TB and I had them removed.


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## Charley (24 July 2011)

Agree with others who have said these shoes are nothing but trouble.

The 'top man' of Cytek appears quite blatant in his "this concept is going to make me a millionaire" comments, frankly anyone who has that attitude towards a shoeing concept he came up with is clearly not doing it with the horse's interests at heart. He can also talk the arse end off a donkey when it comes to bleating on about Cytek's advantages, I think a bit like Parelli he beats people down with his rhetoric!

Ghastly man ghastly shoes IMO.


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## team barney (24 July 2011)

Interesting debate about cyteks on this farrier/hoofcare forum...

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10750


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## team barney (24 July 2011)

mossolb said:



			I, too, have had first hand experience from the top man. 

I am very happy with his sincerity, committment and care for my horses. 
They are both sounder in gait, stride and posture since being shod with cytek.
I know of several people who are equally satisfied and who have horses that are now pain free and sound.

Maybe you didn't get "the top man" after all. Also why so secretive - can't you post your opinions here?
		
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Sounder shouldn't really be the aim of shoeing, sound should be.


I have no personal experience of cytek but have read up a little and hate the idea of shaping the hoof to the shoe, sounds far too much like strassur's every foot should be the same blurb. If every horse had ideal conformation it may work, but they don't.  I have a pony who is very upright, though his shoulders right to his feet, they are angularly perfect for his conformation.  A farrier tried to give him "perfect" feet once, the pony was crippled and it took a long time time to get him right again.  
A set hoof shape is always going to be a huge no in my book whether from a shoeing system or a barefoot system.


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## mossolb (24 July 2011)

ferrador said:



			just as a matter of interest , exactly which farrier " invented " the cytec shoe, and what is this patent you talk about ? another, who is the head farrier you have not named ? how many countries have published written official warnings about the practice of cytec shoeing ?
chris
		
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I think you must be confused. My original post was in response to "crazyhorse" who referred to the "top man". I didn't mention a head farrier nor a patent.
I don't know the answer to your last question but I am sure you can find out if you do a bit of research as I did.


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## ferrador (24 July 2011)

mossolb , my questions were in response to thread 13 . i know the answers but does cpobtfaew ?
chris


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## mossolb (24 July 2011)

ferrador said:



			mossolb , my questions were in response to thread 13 . i know the answers but does cpobtfaew ?
chris
		
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Ok - that makes sense but I got your post as a reply to my post - don't know how that happened.


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## Ratcatcher (18 September 2011)

I've just come across this thread and must point out to Charley that you are somewhat out of date with your information and have been misled. Warwick Bloomfield was in charge of training and publicity. He has not been involved with the company for some years now. In my opinion it was a massive mistake on the part of the company to use him as he rubbed so many people up the wrong way that they became anti-cytek as well as anti-WB which is a tragedy as it prevented so many horses from benefitting.

I'd like to say a few things:
These shoes have been around for over 10 years now and the stories of people having great successes with them are increasing - despite the best efforts of the antis.
Would you rather take the word of someone who uses the shoes (owner or farrier) or someone who 'knows someone who had them'/'knew a horse once' or routinely calls them rubbish without ever having fitted - or even held one.
Look out for US farriers like Rick Burten and Patti Stiller in particular who have never had anything to do with them but love to rubbish them. I know they know nothing about them because they are still spouting the same old inaccuracies. Sometimes it feels like they have shares in Natural Balance.

Why would a farrier change to using Cytek shoes? In the UK at least they have to qualify using traditional methods.  In changing to Cytek he risks the following:
Facing ridicule and even hostility from many of his colleagues, owners etc..
Losing money as they average shoeing cycle extends from 4 or 6 weeks to 8 or 10.
Losing half his client base as they flee in fright at all the horror stories they have heard on threads like this from people who feel it is okay to regurgitate false information without being bothered to do proper research and in consequence prevent horses from benefitting from these shoes. 

Maybe it's because he cares what he's doing and he's found that these shoes actually work and that the horses are happy with them?

It makes me sick that there are some people in the horse world who would prefer to spread inaccurate information, negativity and even downright lies because it suits their twisted agenda rather than give these horses the opportunity to come sound.

If anyone is really interested in these shoes get on the cytek websites, speak to farriers who actually use them, contact owners who use them then make up your own mind and trust your own judgement and listen to what your horse tells you.


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## ISHmad (18 September 2011)

Ratcatcher said:



			Would you rather take the word of someone who uses the shoes (owner or farrier) or someone who 'knows someone who had them'/'knew a horse once' or routinely calls them rubbish without ever having fitted - or even held one.

If anyone is really interested in these shoes get on the cytek websites, speak to farriers who actually use them, contact owners who use them then make up your own mind and trust your own judgement and listen to what your horse tells you.
		
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Well I fall in the "know someone who had them on their horse" camp and wouldn't touch this method of shoeing with your bargepole or anyone elses.  I saw with my own eyes, not just hearsay from my friend and nothing on this earth would make me have these shoes on my own horses.

For those who have had good experiences great.  But for those who haven't no amount of commentary on a Forum is going to make them try again. We all go from experiences in life, good or bad and these are a real no no for me.


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## Ratcatcher (18 September 2011)

Strange - I've known thousands of horses shod with traditional shoes and I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole either.

Isn't it odd how we routinely accept traditional rim shoes despite the overwhelming number of cases of lame horses we see every day? How many lame horses have you come across ishmad? What proportion of those were shod with Cytek? Just one - or two?  

I've known hundreds of lame horses - all shod with traditional shoes.

Any shoe is as good as the farrier putting them on but the high incidence of lameness/tendon problems/foot issues and euthanasia resulting from hoof problems amongst the horse population (the vast majority of which are shod traditionally) makes it essential that professionals and owners take a long hard look at whether it is these methods that are actually causing the issues.

It takes guts for any farrier/vet or owner to do that objectively and ask the question - have I been doing it wrong?


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## ISHmad (18 September 2011)

I'm not your best candidate to answer this RC as most of my horses are barefoot, one has front shoes on and one is shod all round.  Touching wood we don't have lameness issues with any of them and I'm happy with my farrier, trimmer and our present arrangements.

Cytek is not on our agenda because of what I witnessed.  Had I witnessed that within my own circle of friends or myself personally with another method of shoeing whether traditional, Cytek, Natural Balance or anything else then I would feel the same.


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## Jesstickle (18 September 2011)

Ratcatcher said:



			Isn't it odd how we routinely accept traditional rim shoes despite the overwhelming number of cases of lame horses we see every day?
		
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We don't on this forum as it happens. If you go back and look through past posts about shoeing vs barefoot you'll see that quite clearly.  Just saying and all that


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## ESH (18 September 2011)

I,ve not heard the mention of Cytek for a long time now.  

I had both my horses shod with them.  One horse had no problems before, during or after Cytek, The other was lame with "Navicular" in both front feet being diagnosed as a five year old.  Remedial shoeing and Egg bars were tried never worked, put her into Cytek and she came right very quickly, she stayed sound on them for 6 years, when the Navicular started showing in one hoof again.

In the time she was in Cytek, I started to learn more about barefoot and had successfully had a youngster barefoot, so at this point I removed the Cytek shoes and transitioned her successfully barefoot and once again she became sound and since all my horses have worked barefoot and are sound.  

So I'm not pro or anti cytek, I just tell my experience.  I believe like any shoe it can only be as good as the person who balances the foot and applies the shoe.

A lot of my friends think I am now totally anti shoeing, but all I say is "I understand that barefoot is not for every owner and if you are going to put shoes on a horse at least get a good farrier who can properly balance a hoof"


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## Crazy Friesian (18 September 2011)

Mine was lamed by the main man himself... That'd be enough of a testimony for me... Never again...

Mind you - I have him to thank that all my guys are now barefoot (luckily they all have good enough feet). I would rather they were trimmed and mother nature did the rest for me than put their welfare in the hands of ANY form of shoeing again!


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## Ratcatcher (19 September 2011)

Whether someone chooses barefoot or shod it seems that any problem with a Cytek shod horse is blamed squarely on the shoe rather than its application, management etc, yet I have not heard many people on horse forums blaming problems with traditionally shod horses on the shoe that is fitted. They may blame the farrier, the horse's breeding (oh, it's a thoroughbred) feeding or any number of other possibilities - never the shoe.

Just to repeat - Warwick Bloomfield never was and certainly isn't now the main man despite what he was telling everyone. In fact I don't think he is even still shoeing much and he worked in my area. He was my farrier for a number of years and I would point out that even the most skilled are not infallible and can occasionally, despite all their efforts have a problem. For example I've seen horses who have terribly damaged feet where the farrier has only millimeters to place a nail and I've seen horses that have never been taught to stand still for the farrier so shoeing is a nightmare yet some owners still expect the farrier to work miracles. Add to that the issues the horse was dealing with before the shoeing, the fact that some owners just do not follow advice following the shoeing.


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## maggiesmum (19 September 2011)

Now call me a cynic - and i'll happily apologise if i'm proved wrong but there are 3 members on this thread all praising cytek shoes and their creator - and they're all "foal' members who haven't posted on any other thread -  coincidence? 

My own knowledge of Cytek is limited, I explored the avenue once but found far too many negatives for my liking, I've since spoken to a farrier who used to fit them and he said that they could be useful for some horses but that the farrier had to know what he was doing to fit them properly, he doesn't fit them any more either.


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## whisp&willow (19 September 2011)

my only experience with cytek is as follows:

my mare was lame for a few weeks, and after x-rays she was shod with eggbars by my usual farrier.  a friend of mine was going on and on about cytek, and that chronicly lame horses were becoming miraculously sound as a result of this method.

i was in no hurry to try it- as i have full faith in my farrier, but spoke to the vet,  who told me that in his experience a vast number of these horses that became sound broke down and were basically ruined as a result.

as i say- no personal experience, but a story from a highly regarded professional which i took heed of.

incidentally my mare had a very deeply rooted abscess which was causing the lameness.  she became sound soon after and the eggbars no longer needed.


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## DragonSlayer (19 September 2011)

maggiesmum said:



			Now call me a cynic - and i'll happily apologise if i'm proved wrong but there are 3 members on this thread all praising cytek shoes and their creator - and they're all "foal' members who haven't posted on any other thread -  coincidence?
		
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Thats what I was thinking, but couldn't be arsed to say it, as with everything on this forum it's 'my way or the highway!' as many people won't even allow themselves to think that there just MIGHT be a different way to what they are doing...

I've always had my horses traditionally shod, never had a bother with it. Got one horse barefoot too as he has smashing feet....

If the need arose, I'd look into other alternatives if they were suggested, then make my own mind up after a bit of research....


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## berry (19 September 2011)

I do believe that a lot of lameness issues in shod horses can be down to the farrier. I just can't get my head round The concept of cytek!!!
How can grabbing a shoe out of a box and fitting a horses hoof to the shoe be good for the horse??? Surely the shoe should be fitted to the hoof instead. My old YO uses cytek on a couple of her horses and their feet look awful, I don't really rate her farrier at all as his trims a shocking too. Keeps going on about the 'mustang roll'! And how horses hoofs wear down in the wild and that's how they should be trimmed. I'm sorry but domestic horses are not in the wild roaming over different terrains they are stuck in a field and maybe get ridden on tar mac, sand and the occasional stoney track. My horse can't go in traditional rimmed shoes due to neglect when she was younger so she has natural balance. I would never however let her have cyteks fitted as can't see the benefits sorry .


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## Haniki (19 September 2011)

One of my horses had a couple of cycles of Cytek shoes as my well respected farrier recommended them (he was a qualified Cytek farrier). They were a nightmare for my horse. She kept pulling them off and was not sound in them. I had to plead with my farrier to go back to conventional shoeing.


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## Luci07 (19 September 2011)

I am in the anti camp. 100%. I researched it as another woman at our yard had switched and it made sense. More fool me. Switched both horses over, first one lame and the b**ody farrier wouldn't come back out - he did after I hounded him relentlessly as he had agreed before we started I would not be leaving 3 months in the shoeing cycle and he was booked in after 6 to check. After the second shoeing my mares feet no longer actually matched. First horse kept going lame. Switched back to my farrier and never had any more problems. Fine I accept I might have had a poor farrier but I had nothing but issues and lameness and will never look at those shoes again.


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## hobit (19 September 2011)

I have had Cytek shoes fitted to all three of my horses and their pace and stride has improved since they have been fitted.

With my one horse i have tried everything to get him sound and for him to keep shoes on over the past four years, he has been bare foot, quarter clips on the front feet to help keep shoes on and I have also tried Epona shoes, which came off within hours off been put on. They were glued and nailed on for extra security but didn't last and cost around £170 just to get everything needed to carry out one shoeing. The big lad would be lame for a week after shoeing each time and then would have to be shod every 4 to 5 weeks which prevented me from really being able to do anything with him.

Since the big lad had Cyteks fitted he is no longer lame after shoeing and we have been able to start competing in all spheres now. I wish I had discovered Cyteks earlier than my horse having to go through being lame after each shoeing. 

I also have an 22 yr old mare who is no longer foot sore in her Cyteks and had a new lease of life with having them fitted, her stride opened up and she is working beautifully as they all are. The youngster, 5 yr old who was only shod traditionally once and without much care, the shoes were thrown on to get him to the sales, has since been swapped over to Cyteks and is also showing improvement in his action and stride.

I haven't found any problems with using Cyteks and have learnt a lot from my Cytek farrier. It is so rare to meet a farrier that cares about the horses the way he does, or even have half the amount of knowledge about horses that he does. 
I have attended two leg dissections conducted by my farrier, at which I have learnt so much as did a traditional farrier who also attended.

Before changing i did research into Cyteks, I read the good and the bad reviews and found that the research behind the shoes makes sense and changed over to them and have never looked back.

All I can say is do your research and enter with an open mind, everyone has good and bad points about everything but at least give yourself the chance to make an informed decision rather than listening to hear say, speak to people who have used the shoes and read up about them. If you think about it they have been in use for over a decade now and their popularity is still growing and going strong all over the world, not just in the UK, so something is right with them.


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## sharonaholt (19 September 2011)

For years I resisted being converted over to Cytek shoes by a friend/client believing that the shoe should fit the horse and not the foot fit the shoes. Nailing a preset shaped shoe on didn't seem right to me. I finally agreed to give them a try a couple of months ago on my 15.2hh ex polo now happy hacking horse and my laminitic shetland. 

Before using Cytek shoes, my ridden mare was on rimmed shoes. She was reluctant to trot and canter and had to be 'pushed on' but she wasn't happy. I had her back checked twice in a couple of months, her bit was changed, and a new saddle etc. My first hack out on her after having Cytek shoes fitted was a great improvement. The second hack out was great fun - she actually wanted to trot and canter. Now she is forward going and I have to stop her wanting to canter off whenever we hit suitable surfaces. 

My laminitic shetland was very sore and uncomfortable being barefoot. A few days after being fitted with Cytek shoes (the first shoes he has worn), he was cantering and spinning around after the horses - playing a game of chase. I videoed it as I couldn't believe that he had changed so much in a few days. 

I still find it hard to believe but the proof is in the pudding... My ponies are happy and that is all that matters.

Every horse is different - as are humans. Stop bitching and just get on with what is best for YOUR horse.


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## Crazy Friesian (19 September 2011)

mossolb said:



			I, too, have had first hand experience from the top man. 

I am very happy with his sincerity, committment and care for my horses. 
They are both sounder in gait, stride and posture since being shod with cytek.
I know of several people who are equally satisfied and who have horses that are now pain free and sound.

Maybe you didn't get "the top man" after all. Also why so secretive - can't you post your opinions here?
		
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Not secretive at all THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!  I just prefer not to air EVERYTHING on an open forum - I can go into the whole detail if you like - with witnesses to back me up - and in the process open a whole universal size can of worms..

Your call.

As a relatively new poster you ob don't know me. Those who do will know that this is not my style....


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## DragonSlayer (20 September 2011)

CrazyFriesian - Don't rise to the bait.

No-one here has to justify ANYTHING.

If you are happy with something, you are happy.

If you are not, and post you are not, that will suffice.


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## Laura1812 (20 September 2011)

Looks like people are just joining the forum to praise cyteks - smell a rat?

there is no way a cytek shoe will EVER be nailed to my horses feet


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## maggiesmum (20 September 2011)

Laura1812 said:



			Looks like people are just joining the forum to praise cyteks - smell a rat?
		
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LOL - I think the head count stands at 4 with another 'possible'!!


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## Luci07 (20 September 2011)

maggiesmum said:



			LOL - I think the head count stands at 4 with another 'possible'!! 

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My thoughts exactly. None of us "timers" on here have anything positive to say!


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## mossolb (20 September 2011)

Laura1812 said:



			Looks like people are just joining the forum to praise cyteks - smell a rat?

there is no way a cytek shoe will EVER be nailed to my horses feet
		
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Just to set the record straight for all of you out there who seem to be totally intolerant of anyone who is pro Cytek. 

As I've already stated I first came across this forum when I was doing some reseach into Cytek as a friend had recommended them and I wanted more info.
The posts were quite old but I noticed the tone of the "antis" tended to be almost hysterically against these shoes. This made me smell a rat. Historically in so many areas anything new which challenges long held beliefs is condemned and inventors/creators ridiculed.

I decided to make up my own mind cautiously and use my intuition with care for my horses health paramount as always.

If you want to look at my previous posts you will see what I've said about my experience. 
My horses are still in cytek shoes, I have attended a clinic which was informative and enlightening and I have no reason to reconsider my decision.

The reason I decided to join this forum and added some posts was because I wanted to try and redress the balance. I haven't used it before because I don't really like forums of any kind as they seem to be full of people trying to tell everyone else what they should do and rubbish others with a dissenting voice.

If your horses are well and sound then why are you in such a state - maybe you did have a bad experience but that doesn't mean that you are right.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that other people have had a good experience of these shoes - what are you afraid of? 

If I get things wrong then I try and accept that I've had an opportunity to learn from my mistakes - the guiding principle for me is my horses welfare not trying to prove I know better than everyone else.

I have had bad (and expensive) experiences with vets but I don't condemn 
all vets I just accept that all so called experts aren't always right. I have also come across many people who have had horses far longer than I have but persist in doing things which are quite obviously not in the best interest of their horses.

I am posting again today because I am aware that whenever any one dares to sing the praises of Cytek it unleashes a hornets nest of condemnation together with rediculous, paranoid implications that there is some sort of collusion going on.

I would suggest that those of you who have had bad experiences, whatever the area of your life, reflect on what went wrong and you might realise that you played a part in it. It's so much easier to blame other people than take responsibility for your self and your own decisions.

If you don'tlike these shoes and don't want them then don't have them but for goodness sake allow other peole to voice their views and accounts of their experience.

My original posts were not aggressive just telling of my experience - what is wrong with you? Have you heard the expression "By your put-downs shall you be known" In other words peoples antagonism/recation says far more about them than the thing or person they are reacting to.

Good wishes to you all and I hope your horses are well and happy whatever you choose to do.


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## mossolb (20 September 2011)

Luci07 said:



			My thoughts exactly. None of us "timers" on here have anything positive to say!
		
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Hi Luci07

You have proved my point beautifully. You are a "timer" I am new so therefore you must be right and I must be suspect and not to be taken seriously.
Precisely the attitude I am seeing on this forum to Cytek shoes.

Once upon a time people were burnt at the stake for suggesting that the world was round. No doubt the "flat earthers" thought of themselves as "timers".


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## mrussell (20 September 2011)

Well I am a timer (glad to see no reference to OLD) and I swear by Cyteks when appropriately used by trained fitters.

My old fella was diagnosed with Caudal heel pain 8 years ago.  He was shod by Newmarkets (Rossdales) best experts who tried every product on the market.  He had reverse tilt pedal bones, collapsed heels, low grade lami, thin flimsy soles, breaking hoof walls and a 10-to-2 conformation.

Once NFUs money had run out, the experts decided to write my horse off and discharged him as a lost case.

Someone through this site recommended trying Cyteks because "what had I got to lose" ?  Luckily the amazing farrier Martin Goodwin had just moved from Surrey to Norfolk and came out to see my horse.

Now, at this point he was still 6/10ths lame on a right circle and 4/10th on a right circle.  

Martin trimmed him and shod him in Cyteks and he went to 1/10th on both reins.  Even Martin was gobsmacked.  My vet was incredulous and even offered to do free xrays about 6 months in to see what effect the shoe had had.  Amazingly, his sole had thickened and his heels were coming up.  Slowly slowly.

Now Martin is the sort of farrier who has a long term plan.  He does what ever the horse needs, not what is the latest fad.  He is a traditional farrier as well as a Cytek fitter so he can work outside of the Cytek box if needs be.

My horse was shod every 5 weeks.  He was too mature to change the angle of his legs so Martyn had his work cut out keeping him comfy.

He is now 19 and this year Martin finally got him into standard rim shoes.  They are roller shoes with a breakover all around the shoe rather than just at the toe, and my old boys heels and souls are now able to take this type of shoe.

I will forever be grateful to the person who suggested Cyteks, just as I will be forever grateful to Martin.  

Yes, they are a Marmite shoe but if thats all that stands between retirement and a comfy useful life for your horse, exactly what are you waiting for ?


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## Luci07 (20 September 2011)

mossolb said:



			Hi Luci07

You have proved my point beautifully. You are a "timer" I am new so therefore you must be right and I must be suspect and not to be taken seriously.
Precisely the attitude I am seeing on this forum to Cytek shoes.

Once upon a time people were burnt at the stake for suggesting that the world was round. No doubt the "flat earthers" thought of themselves as "timers".
		
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I was not rude, or hysterical. There is (and this is not aimed at you) a very unfortunate and regular occurence on this forum of people joining on using new names and jumping on band wagons. In fact we have a very high level of "trolls" on this board...As a result, newbies are now viewed with a certain amount of sceptisim when becoming quite so adamamant with their views. Of course all views and experiences are welcome on this board - its how we learn..

If you feel you fell foul of that so be it. It is just odd that the fervent supporters are nearly all new...

I do not accept that the bad experience with the cytek farrier was also partly due to me. I don't see how it can be! I did my research, checked out said farrier, agreed a much shorter timeframe for visits than he wanted to do and it didn't work. So like others, I have had a very bad experience and will not repeat again.


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## EquiLight (20 September 2011)

I think we all need to do lots of research on the subject to truly understand what is best for our horses, after all, how many of us have seen a 100% wild equine's hoof? I have been fortunate to attend 2 lower leg dissections of 3 horse limbs, and I document the findings of traditional barefoot / shoeing here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeYlrjI-X1w

I have a barefoot herd of 5 horses who are all Cytek trimmed, all sounder with improved posture and gaits as a result. I also have one new mare erroneously diagnosed with laminitis, shod in front with Cyteks, and instantly sound on her lame hoof.

A neighouring horse rescue centre has switched to cytek trims and the horses are all recovering from traditional barefoot farriery, which caused abscesses and seedy toe. I CANNOT PRAISE CYTEK HIGHLY ENOUGH! As with most things equine, humans still have much to learn!


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## Ratcatcher (20 September 2011)

I fully agree with Mossolb's post.

If it is the case that people are joining the forum to put forward their experiences with Cytek then I'm glad. I don't participate in forums generally but if I see so much uninformed negativity about Cytek shoeing on them I will take part to redress the balance. 

One of my own horses was an insurance write off (so called navicular). She'd been that way for some years before having a set of Cyteks on and lo and behold she went sound, her feet improved, her heels became strong instead of the weedy collapsed ones they were before and she lived on happily sound and free from foot pain. 

What upsets me on so many forums is that I see the same stuff trawled out time and again like the hoof is made to fit the shoe. No it isn't. The shoes come in 16 sizes and they are made to fit the foot itself. What people misinterpret as shaping the hoof to fit the shoe is the mishapen hoof wall - the equivalent of our finger nail - being trimmed back. The foot is not interfered with. In fact it is being correctly supported by a shoe that is specifically designed to support the foot - not the twisted hoof wall. Rim shoes do not support the foot - instead they protect what is a deformed hoof wall and allow the deformity to continue and worsen. The correct fitting of the shoes is very precise and not somehow an easy cop out for the farrier.

What also upsets me on some forums is that I see the same attitudes that exist out in the real world. I've known owners to be bullied in yards because they've chosen Cytek shoes despite the fact that their horses are sound and happy and if this doesn't work they resort to all sorts of ludicrous horror stories like your horse will go lame after a couple of years. Really? This method of shoeing has been going for years now and I know horses that have been on them since they started - still sound and happy. Does it really make sense to believe that your horse will go from sound, with great feet, better musculature, increased stride to a wreck in the blink of an eye? 

Thankfully, and at long last, despite the damage done by some early exponents and despite the negativity that so many people try to spread, the number of owners using the shoes seems to be increasing every day and that means the number of sound and happy horses is increasing too. Not before time.


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## maggiesmum (20 September 2011)

5


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## Ratcatcher (20 September 2011)

Some seek safety in numbers and that seems to be the majority of people who enjoy spreading uninformed comments. It's just easier.


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## maggiesmum (20 September 2011)

Ratcatcher said:



			Some seek safety in numbers and that seems to be the majority of people who enjoy spreading uninformed comments. It's just easier.
		
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Bit confused as to where you get 'uninformed' from, people are giving their experiences of cytek shoeing, if you're suggesting that their negative comments are uninformed then equally they could suggest that your positive comments are also uninformed! 

Horses are not made in a factory therefore they are not all the same, something that works for one will not necessarily work for another, you may think cytek shoes are the best thing since sliced bread as they made your lame navicular horse sound, I feel exactly the same way about removing the shoes completely. No one thing is the key to all horses, the OP asked for people opinions and experiences and that was precisely what she got, forums are places for debate, not everyone will agree with what you have to say and its unrealistic to expect them too.


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## Ratcatcher (20 September 2011)

Just read through the thread maggiesmum. I believe you stated yourself that your experience of Cytek shoes was limited. 

For example: 
I keep hearing about the 'main man'. Warwick has had nothing to do with the shoes for years and despite what he may have told people was nothing to do with the shoes apart from being a trainer. Don't forget, he used to be my farrier and I've been a user/supporter since the beginning.
I keep hearing about friends, friends of friends and just ' a horse I knew'. I don't doubt that there have been bad experiences - for example carriage horses slipping on ramps should not be an issue if they are fitted correctly - they have tungsten pins fitted at the toe to give grip. I've seen plenty of traditionally shod horses slipping on ramps - let alone tarmac roads.
I keep hearing about the foot being shaped to the shoe - wrong again.
Angua complains about the state of the horse she took on and yet begins by saying the shoes were put on by the previous owner as a last resort because of pedal bone fractures in both front feet yet she blames the shoes!
Ferrador suggests that various countries have had written warnings - total rubbish! 
Team Barney says their own knowledge is limited..
I surely don't have to go on.

You may also hear at some stage that they were a Natural Balance rip off - Wrong again - they appeared on the market BEFORE NB.
They're made of inferior cast iron - wrong!
I even once heard a rumour that all the cytek company personnel had died during 9/11. It beggars belief what some people will come up with.

No, horses are not factory made. The shoes have been designed specifically to fit the horses foot - so your horse gets the support it needs not some individual interpretation of what your horse needs by your farrier who will have a totally different idea of what it needs from the farrier down the road and the one round the corner. Why should this be the case? I've heard farriery called 'an art and a science'. What nonsense! Where does artistry come in? Can you call medicine, veterinary science, chiropody etc.. an 'art' in way shape or form?

I could go on.

No, horses are not made in a factory but they are living creatures who have long since had to put up with the same old same old inadequate shoeing methods that do not begin to address what, as a living, moving creature, it needs to keep healthy.

I don't have a problem with people expressing their opinions but as far as I'm concerned this is a deeply serious issue because it literally can mean life or death to a horse and I get very upset when I hear people regurgitating the same rubbish when it is very obvious they know nothing about the shoe and how it works or performs.  Yes, there are people who genuinely have had bad experiences and I truly feel for them and I hate the fact that that has happened because neither they, nor their horses are likely to ever have the benefit. This is not because the shoe is wrong - far from it - it because the farrier putting them on made a mess of it. Just like traditional farriers can  but there are also plenty of people out there who just love to repeat untruths, half truths and downright lies.  They should be ashamed of themselves.


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## berry (20 September 2011)

Ratcatcher this is a forum different people will always have different opinions!! There is no need to get so het up about it! People have given there opinions about the shoe and of cause not everyone is going to agree but there is no need to call them liers unless you know them personally and know that they are in fact lying!! My horse is barefoot as she is being a mummy for a while. I was hopeing that taking her shoes off would improve her feet but unfortunately it hasn't and it's been nearly a year now, so when she comes back into work she will have her NB shoes put back on. I have never had a horse shod with cytek but have looked after a few and in MY OPINION the only horses that they seem to suit are horses with feet problems anyway. Like you have said peoples bad experiences may be down to the farrier fitting the shoes instead of the actual shoe but if this is the case then maybe they should provide a more in-depth training course for farriers which want to go down the cytek route instead of a day workshop!!!  But that is just my opinion!!!!!


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## PooJay (20 September 2011)

i used them as a last option and after being crippled in normal shoes, tried cytek and had a sound horse after a few days. 

***HOWEVER*** a shoe is only as good as the farrier putting them on. I luckily had an excellent farrier, who incidentally stopped using cytek himself a year or so after and started using natural balance instead - Mark had Aluminium Cytek shoes available for my mare to use as standard metal shoes were too heavy and her hooves were too delicate.  

i can't tell you what a difference it made to my little tb no foot left mare, it was an unbelievable transformation and a great way of getting her to the point that she could cope with no shoes at all, which really was our last option.

I was gutted when my farrier stopped using them as even natural balance shoes did not do the job that they cytek did by supporting the walls, heels and soles (her soles were so thin you could easily press and move them) but luckily her feet had improved enough just to try barefoot. 

This is a loooong time ago, they didn't work for the other horse that was shod with them but they saved my girls life. Horses for courses i think....and i would like to reiterate, the shoe is only as good as the farrier putting them on!


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## maggiesmum (20 September 2011)

Yes my experience of them is limited but I did enough research to form an opinion that leans more towards the negative, I wasn't prepared to try them and risk my horses soundness.

Again - the OP asked for peoples opinions and experiences and that was precisely what she got. 
An opinion is an individual thing, I like eastenders I'm not much for corrie it doesn't mean one is right and the other wrong its just my opinion. Equally cytek works for some and not for others so peoples opinions express that, doesn't mean its right or wrong.

Just because your experience of cytek was a good one it doesn't mean everyone else's is, some will have had bad experiences, some will have friends who had bad experiences, some will have heard that their cats mothers owners sister had a bad experience which is enough to put them off, either way their opinion has been formed and its very very difficult to change. Its part of life that we all differ, sometimes we have to agree to disagree in the knowledge that if we're right and it truly is a fantastic thing then pretty soon people will catch on to it. 

"What also upsets me on some forums is that I see the same attitudes that exist out in the real world" - Forums aren't a parallel universe, they're a sample of the real world and if you find a majority disagreeing with something in the real world then chances are you'll find the same on a forum - stands to reason. 

In part I agree with what you say, only for me the sentence goes like this - a deeply serious issue because it literally can mean life or death to a horse and I get very upset when I hear people regurgitating the same rubbish when it is very obvious they know nothing about the HORSES FOOT and how it works or performs. Yes, there are people who genuinely have had bad experiences and I truly feel for them and I hate the fact that that has happened because neither they, nor their horses are likely to ever have the benefit. 

Personally I believe that horses feet perform better without anything nailed to it but I have to accept that other people think differently, if they ask I give them the information that they need otherwise I keep my mouth shut, no one wants an opinion rammed down their throat (not that i'm suggesting that you're doing that) it just turns them off to the subject.


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## Ratcatcher (20 September 2011)

Het up? Yes I probably am but then perhaps you would be too if you'd heard over ten years of nonsense but seen what I'd seen. I've seen dissections of seemingly healthy feet with little half moon shapes in the tips of pedal bones where the bone has eroded. Guess what caused them - tapping the toe clips down again and again and again at each shoeing; tendon damage, navicular bones eroded, sesamoids bones crushed with just dead tissue remaining. It may not look like a damaged foot on the outside but when you look deeper - no wonder the poor horse ended up at the knackers. 

Why if a shoe does such good work when the horse is lame, should it not work when it's sound? Doesn't follow. 

Every owner has to make choices whether it is shod or barefoot but it helps enormously if the 'opinions' are based on fact rather than rumours, old outdated information and yes - sometimes lies.


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## prophecy10 (20 September 2011)

I do believe, that in this day & age people should be free & take it upon themselves to make their own decisions & try not to let others influence you or make you feel wrong. We all do what we feel is best for our horses!

I would like to share my expiriences of cytek shoes. I'm not condeming anybody nor trying to purseude people to use cytek. I have the farrier who created cytek & all I can say is that he is the most inspiring passionate man, that I have met in a long time. He truly cares about horses so much so that he spent years researching horses in the wild! Their ways, their life style, their physical bodies & their feet, in America, Australia, Argentina (How many farriers do you know that have done that?)
I suspect there are traditional farriers & vets out there that have come across some lameness's in horses & have been stumped! When I used to ask my traditional farrier "Why?" He used to say to me "it's just one of those things!" Well my cytek farrier was one of those guys, he got fed up of not knowing & it was that, that inspired his travels & research. There is also a cytek vet, that can back up alot of true facts & information. I have read veterinary books & a lot of it seems to be dated information. Bring on current & new research! 
All I really have to say is Google "images of wild horse feet" You maybe suprised with how they look. The hoof wall & toe is short, rounded & flat! So the horse can place his hoof down flat, with correct break over. Just imagin if the ball of our foot was rigid, therefor our break over point was at the very end of our toe & to top it of long toe nails or metal nailed onto our toes. Cytek shoes allow the horse's toe to wear to its natural shape, they support the P3 bone & don't force the hoof wall to take the whole of the horse's weight. As you can see by examples of wild horse's feet the hoof wall takes no weight in nature. Whereas rim shoes & in a lot of cases barefoot horses can have sand cracks, flat flying saucer feet & seperation of the hoof wall from the insides of the foot, Infections in the white line can occur. Also Mechanical laminitus (not from over indulging) occurs from badly shaped feet, that end up stretching & putting pressure on the sensative laminae underneath the foot. Which I have first hand expirience, with a 'so called' laminitic pony. She was in a bad way, although she didn't show the usual signs of laminitus. My vet said it was, I was confused because my vets diagnosis didn't sit right with me. But I carried on with my vets advice, which was box rest for the rest of the summer pads on her feet, drugs. After 2 weeks my pony was so much brighter & I still thought that strange for a laminitc pony! My friend mentioned cytek shoeing & I thought I would give it a try. Despite my vet said not to put any shoes on her. Anyway, the farrier just gently tapped his hammer on the bottom of her feet - She didn't even flinch & I believed that having shoes on her front would take the pressure off. She was shod with cytek fronts & OMG I saw a transformation in her posture within seconds of her having the shoes on. They bring a horse back to it's natural stance imediately. She was sound within 2 days & still sound now, full of life with a free gait. Whereas once apon a time she was reluctant to move & I just thought she was a laid back pony!
I was so pleased with the results that my other 2 horses have cytek fronts on too. One who has never shown a problem with his feet (apart from tripping up at times) & he has been barefoot & rim shod. But again I see such a transformation in his posture & his gait is relaxed & flowing. 
My 3rd horse was a horse that never seemed to show foot problems too, but he always had an abnormal gait & never seemed forward or comfortable in his stride. No vet, chiropractor, physio, saddler, dentist or farrier could help me to work out what was up with him. He seemed to walk like a soldier, with a stretched out neck, like he was always trying to take the weight off his front feet & toes. As soon as the cytek fronts were again instant results in his posture & a little in his gaite. He was the only one that took a little longer to loose the choppy-ness! But put it this way, he had not balance with rim shoes or barefoot & now he does with cytek!
Its highly likely that things could take a little time before they truly settle, because it's such a dramatic change & it may well be that a dramatic change may not suit every horse (A properly trained cytek farrier will know this, some farriers are corrupt & haven't put themselves through the training, purely to geperdise cytek. If you need someone to blame, blame the individual not the system) Like us going to the chiropractor, ostyopath or dentist! we sometimes feel worse after, but that is the healing process!
My vet that was treating my pony is amazed at her dramatic recovery & his jaw dropped when he saw her turn a circle. His exact words were " Oh my gosh I have never seen a pony turn a circle like that EVER, let alone a laminitic pony!" I replied saying "It's the cytek shoes & she didn't have laminitus, it was azotoria with a dose of mechanical laminitus! I did my research! 
Be inspired & research too! Dont just listen to title tatle on forums, find out the facts like I did. Also def have a look at pictures of wild horse feet & look at the website. Another gooden is CYTEK MILLENIUM on You Tube & Coffin bone suprise! Seriously he has saved ready for dead horses! Am sorry to hear about people's expiriences that wern't so good. Might be worth asking yourself if they were really cytek shoes (all sorts of crap going round saying they are cytek, when they are not) Also finding out about the farrier you had? All I know is the main man works so hard & truly cares about horses & travels everywhere he possibly can. 
I went to a disection


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## Ratcatcher (20 September 2011)

Yes, I agree. Many owners know little about the horse's foot - couple that with knowing very little about cytek shoes and we get the sort of uninformed opinions that have been expressed on many forums where they come up in discussion.


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## prophecy10 (20 September 2011)

Ratcatcher said:



			Just read through the thread maggiesmum. I believe you stated yourself that your experience of Cytek shoes was limited. 

For example: 
I keep hearing about the 'main man'. Warwick has had nothing to do with the shoes for years and despite what he may have told people was nothing to do with the shoes apart from being a trainer. Don't forget, he used to be my farrier and I've been a user/supporter since the beginning.
I keep hearing about friends, friends of friends and just ' a horse I knew'. I don't doubt that there have been bad experiences - for example carriage horses slipping on ramps should not be an issue if they are fitted correctly - they have tungsten pins fitted at the toe to give grip. I've seen plenty of traditionally shod horses slipping on ramps - let alone tarmac roads.
I keep hearing about the foot being shaped to the shoe - wrong again.
Angua complains about the state of the horse she took on and yet begins by saying the shoes were put on by the previous owner as a last resort because of pedal bone fractures in both front feet yet she blames the shoes!
Ferrador suggests that various countries have had written warnings - total rubbish! 
Team Barney says their own knowledge is limited..
I surely don't have to go on.

You may also hear at some stage that they were a Natural Balance rip off - Wrong again - they appeared on the market BEFORE NB.
They're made of inferior cast iron - wrong!
I even once heard a rumour that all the cytek company personnel had died during 9/11. It beggars belief what some people will come up with.

No, horses are not factory made. The shoes have been designed specifically to fit the horses foot - so your horse gets the support it needs not some individual interpretation of what your horse needs by your farrier who will have a totally different idea of what it needs from the farrier down the road and the one round the corner. Why should this be the case? I've heard farriery called 'an art and a science'. What nonsense! Where does artistry come in? Can you call medicine, veterinary science, chiropody etc.. an 'art' in way shape or form?

I could go on.

No, horses are not made in a factory but they are living creatures who have long since had to put up with the same old same old inadequate shoeing methods that do not begin to address what, as a living, moving creature, it needs to keep healthy.

I don't have a problem with people expressing their opinions but as far as I'm concerned this is a deeply serious issue because it literally can mean life or death to a horse and I get very upset when I hear people regurgitating the same rubbish when it is very obvious they know nothing about the shoe and how it works or performs.  Yes, there are people who genuinely have had bad experiences and I truly feel for them and I hate the fact that that has happened because neither they, nor their horses are likely to ever have the benefit. This is not because the shoe is wrong - far from it - it because the farrier putting them on made a mess of it. Just like traditional farriers can  but there are also plenty of people out there who just love to repeat untruths, half truths and downright lies.  They should be ashamed of themselves.
		
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YAY!! I like!


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## HashRouge (20 September 2011)

I've honestly never heard of Cytrek shoes - perhaps they've not made it up to the North West yet? 
Even from the positive view points on this thread, it seems like their main value would be as a remedial shoe? I don't really understand what they're supposed to do or how though, I'm not very good with things like that!


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## mrussell (20 September 2011)

HashRouge said:



			I've honestly never heard of Cytrek shoes - perhaps they've not made it up to the North West yet? 
Even from the positive view points on this thread, it seems like their main value would be as a remedial shoe? I don't really understand what they're supposed to do or how though, I'm not very good with things like that!
		
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The shoe is made to completely cover the sole and has a cut out area for the frog.  They also have a squared toe.  They change the break over point of the foot and load the sole rather than the hoof wall.  For thin soled horses it conditions their soles (often meaning they can go barefoot easier than horses going straight from normal shoes to barefoot) and for horses with laminitic troubles they support the pedal bone and remove the "sink" process that "rim" shoes have on the way a foot operates.  

They arent a remedial shoe - they are an option for horses who arent sound in traditional shoes.  

Ofcourse the above is from experience - I am no scientist and no expert !

I dont know why all the hoo-hah to be honest.  *shrugs*


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## MissTyc (20 September 2011)

I feel like I've stumbled into a cyteks anonymous convention.


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## texel (20 September 2011)

Whether you are for or against cytek shoeing and especially if you use the traditional method YOU SHOULD all read and understand the hoof structure and biomechanics of the hoof. 
You don't need a degree in biology to do this at all and you should be aware of what your horse's foot is about so you can spot any problems.

I have recently been looking into the frog, it's form and function  - what does a healthy one look like ?  I was quite surprised when wandering around a livery yard and observing the underside of the occupant's feet (with the owners present of course)  how many are unhealthy.

Some of you say you are not experts or scientists - but you should be, your horse relies on you.


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## mossolb (20 September 2011)

HashRouge said:



			I've honestly never heard of Cytrek shoes - perhaps they've not made it up to the North West yet? 
Even from the positive view points on this thread, it seems like their main value would be as a remedial shoe? I don't really understand what they're supposed to do or how though, I'm not very good with things like that!
		
Click to expand...

Here are a couple of YouTube videos if you are interested,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeYlrjI-X1w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWmPkzukWBQ


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## prophecy10 (20 September 2011)

Here are some more links for people who don't know much about cytek shoeing.

http://www.cytekhorse.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGGgPcU3eTE 
(Look closely to see the cloven hoofs & abscesses on the corronet band)
This looks like a terrible senario.

I believe cytek shoes or cytek trims are also great for horses that don't seem to have any foot problems at all, aswell as those that do have bad feet. A lot of people think that if a horse's hoof looks good on the outside, or if the actual hoof material is nice and hard, then that horse must have good hard feet!? Er not always, people don't know what's going on inside. And even if a horse has nice strong hoof material, it doesn't mean that the hoof is the shape of how it should be in nature. 
My horse, in my eyes has always had good feet & never seemed to show a problem with rim shoes or barefoot. I've put cyteks on him now despite me thinking his feet were fine & actually the way he is now, a whole lot of difference for the better! His vibe & presence is so much happier with a free flowing movement & correct stance. More so than I've ever seen him before!
You will never know the difference untill you see it for yourself. I never knew that a horse's natural leg position was further back, untill I saw it for myself.
Am meeting loads of people these days that have great expiriences with cytek shoes or trims.


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## Tnavas (20 September 2011)

A farrier friend has advised never to use them they cause severe leg problems. Not sure if this is true - but I have been told that insurance companies in USA will not pay up if the horses have them on and the farriers are refusing to fit them as they are being sued by customers.


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## mrussell (20 September 2011)

texel said:



			Some of you say you are not experts or scientists - but you should be, your horse relies on you.
		
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and so you know all there is to know about everything you subject your horse to then ? You are a nutritional expert ?  a saddler ?  you can make your own rugs ?  you cut your own hay and farm your own straw ?  You are a leading expert to the world on breeding and you specialise in insurance claims and property development ?  Yep, ofcourse you do !! because you've swallowed your own advice and become and expert in everything that you subject a horse to.

Oh behave !!  

Its a discussion about Cyteks - not a call to arms.


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## prophecy10 (20 September 2011)

Evelyn said:



			A farrier friend has advised never to use them they cause severe leg problems. Not sure if this is true - but I have been told that insurance companies in USA will not pay up if the horses have them on and the farriers are refusing to fit them as they are being sued by customers.
		
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Why do people listen to all the he said, she said, friend of a friend of a friend's stuff?
Seriously if I had no 1st hand experience of cytek shoes (which I do, amazing results!) I would only want to listen to people stating the facts!!


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## Luci07 (21 September 2011)

A number of people, myself included, have shared direct personal experience with regards to Cytek. It was negative. Those were the facts. The best post was from Maggies Mum - OP asked for experiences/opinions/info and this is exactly what she got.


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## Laura1812 (21 September 2011)

Well if we are all not to listen to the he said, she said stuff, why on earth are we to listen to you, and why bother posting at all?


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## Ratcatcher (21 September 2011)

Evelyn said:



			A farrier friend has advised never to use them they cause severe leg problems. Not sure if this is true - but I have been told that insurance companies in USA will not pay up if the horses have them on and the farriers are refusing to fit them as they are being sued by customers.
		
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No Evelyn this is absolutely NOT true. Your farrier 'friend' was lying.

What on earth is the motivation behind the lies that some people spread? Are they scared of a new system they just don't understand/can't be bothered to find out about/jealous of the successes? 

Whatever the motivation I think it is utterly despicable of so called 'professionals' who are supposed to have our horses interest at the foremost of their practice, who you would expect, if not demand, to keep up with all the latest developments in whatever area of expertise they work in to abuse this position by spreading false information that is designed to prevent you from even trying a new development and getting the benefit.

Imagine if you went to a doctor who told you that a method of treatment you wanted to explore was banned etc... and then you found out he was lying or just too lazy to find out the facts?


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## maggiesmum (21 September 2011)

Ratcatcher said:



			No Evelyn this is absolutely NOT true. Your farrier 'friend' was lying.
		
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Lying or maybe misinformed? You assume that because someone has repeated something they once heard that they're telling lies? 

The problem is this - vets and farriers  (and while we're at it many other horse care professionals) are not always up to date, and they'd often rather stick with what they know than risk their reputation using a clients horse as a guinea pig. 
The client often has to be the driving force behind trying something new once they've researched it enough to have the confidence to nudge the vet/farrier in that direction.

I think maybe its time to realise that you will never convert the posters in this thread and that sometime you have to agree to disagree.


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## Ratcatcher (21 September 2011)

maggiesmum said:



			Lying or maybe misinformed? You assume that because someone has repeated something they once heard that they're telling lies? 

The problem is this - vets and farriers  (and while we're at it many other horse care professionals) are not always up to date, and they'd often rather stick with what they know than risk their reputation using a clients horse as a guinea pig. 
The client often has to be the driving force behind trying something new once they've researched it enough to have the confidence to nudge the vet/farrier in that direction.

I think maybe its time to realise that you will never convert the posters in this thread and that sometime you have to agree to disagree.
		
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Maybe I'm expecting too much from so-called professionals but I would expect them to take the time to find out the facts before they make such statements. If they aren't prepared to keep up to date why on earth are they shoeing horses? If doctors, dentists and lawyers weren't prepared to keep up to date we'd still be enduring amputations without anaesthetic, dentistry without proper hygiene and having to resort to hiring a hotel room and a willing accomplice to get a divorce.

I agree that up to a point the client is the driving force but if the 'professionals' are doing their best to block the information what then?

I don't for one minute think I'll change the minds of the dyed in the wool antis but there are many more people reading these posts who have a more open mind and unless the alternative view is stated they will never have the opportunity to make up their own minds.


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## Montgomery (21 September 2011)

Well when i got my horse last year he could not hold a shoe and had no foot.  Since he had cytek fitted his feet have been better and better.  They are now strong with good growth, no splits, cracks etc and I could not possibly be more delighted.


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## maggiesmum (21 September 2011)

Ratcatcher said:



			Maybe I'm expecting too much from so-called professionals but I would expect them to take the time to find out the facts before they make such statements. If they aren't prepared to keep up to date why on earth are they shoeing horses? If doctors, dentists and lawyers weren't prepared to keep up to date we'd still be enduring amputations without anaesthetic, dentistry without proper hygiene and having to resort to hiring a hotel room and a willing accomplice to get a divorce.

I agree that up to a point the client is the driving force but if the 'professionals' are doing their best to block the information what then?
		
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vets are still de-nerving or writing off navicular horses despite the fact that time after time horses are going to Rockley Farm for rehab and coming home sound, often they either don't know it exists or they're not that interested. 

Doctors and dentists are very rarely up to date, my OH had a brand new treatment done to fit an implant because he was paying a huge sum of money to a private dentist in London, the more local private dentist had never heard of the treatment. 
Likewise a relative saw a brand new form of HRT on a daytime TV programme and went off to the doctors, he'd never heard of it but went with it and let her try it, it turned out to be quite successful but had she not seen it she'd probably still be trying different tablets to this day. 
It frustrates me too that they're often out of date with their knowledge but you have to accept that they're only human and are often doing the best they can within the limit of their knowledge and experience.
TBH I think this thread has run its course now so i'm off to do something more productive with my time than play devils advocate.


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## Ratcatcher (21 September 2011)

There's out-of-date and there's out-of-date. Cytek shoes have been around for the best part of 15 years so they've had plenty of time to catch up and traditional shoeing has not changed for about 150 years. Even Natural Balance is a copy of an old shoe - the Fitzwygram. If your friend's doctor had said 'oh it's a load of rubbish and it's banned in xyz number of countries' would she still have wanted to try it? I very much doubt it.


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## lubuzz (21 September 2011)

I hear all these claims about it instantly and dramatically improving the horses stance and movement and freeness of stride...

Come on then show us a before and after video of the same horse shod with cyteks.

Prove it.


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## berry (21 September 2011)

Like I said before I have only known cyteks to have a good effect on horses with foot problems and alot of the pro cytek posts on here are to say they 'cured my already lame horse'. This may not be the case, they may work on a sound horse and the cases of them making horses go lame may be down to bad farriers but again if this the case then surely it would be worth farriers getting properly trained in fitting cyteks instead of attending a day course. The only cytek farrier in my area that I know of turns up in a old style astra pulls shoes out of a box and bangs them on the horses feet and leaves. If your lucky he might even do the clenches for you but he has been known to just leave nails sticking out of the hoof wall without being clipped off!!!! 
And yes I do believe it's farriers like this that give cyteks a bad name but call me cynical if you like but as these experiences are the only dealings I have had with cyteks this is the reason I would never use them. My mare is completely sound in NB shoes and in my eyes why try and fix something that ain't broken!!!.


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## sjp1 (21 September 2011)

My friends horse has had cytek's on for probably 10 years.  I wouldn't want them because I don't like either the sound or the look of the feet.  However, I am not sure I would particularly want my horse to go barefoot.

Horses for courses - I had a TB - ex racehorse who had a dreadful front foot and I could not get him sound.  I had a barefoot guru out who said it was the worst case she had ever seen and she couldn't not say that she could get him sound even with him living on tracks and no grazing etc. 

In the 5 years I have known friend, her horse has never been lame.  Whether it is because she is as tough as nails, or because the shoes suit her I don't know.

But I wouldn't slam it as dreadful, as I wouldn't slam barefoot, or treeless, or dressage, or NH, or anything else.

Whatever suits.


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## mossolb (21 September 2011)

Luci07 said:



			A number of people, myself included, have shared direct personal experience with regards to Cytek. It was negative. Those were the facts. The best post was from Maggies Mum - OP asked for experiences/opinions/info and this is exactly what she got.
		
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Hi Luci07.
Just as a matter of interest have you watched any of the videos on YouTube or have you attended a Cytek clinic or spoken to an experienced and well trained Cytek farrier?

Also if you had experience of or heard of a horse going lame that was rim shod or barefoot would you immediately condemn all rim shoeing and barefoot?
I imagine that you might take into consideration the expertise of the farrier/hoof trimmer and other possible contributing factors.

Do you consider Maggie's Mum's post to be the best because she implies there is something suspicious about new members starting to post in favour of Cytek? 

As I previously stated I started to post here because I'd already accessed this site as part of my research before I decided to go with Cytek.
What many posts were saying was so different from both my experience and that of people I know first hand that I wanted to speak up in favour so that other readers would not be automatically put off a type of shoe that can make so much difference to their horses saving them pain and maybe  even death.

I am not responsible for other people's favourable posts but I am delighted to see them as I believe a much more balanced picture is emerging than the one I first encountered.

My horses are both now in their fourth month of Cytek shoes, their hooves are growing through more upright, especially noticeable in my TB mare,their soles are hardening and their frogs are growing. Their movement is more collected and fluid and their stance more upright and balanced. There has been evidence of bruising which was sustained when they were barefoot.

I have a friend whose horse was very footsore with historically very poor hooves. I am happy to say that she decided to go with Cytek after seeing my horses being shod and having the chance to talk to the Cytek farrier.
The reduction of pain was immediate and the horse has gone from strength to strength, her hooves are improving daily and her general demeanor has softened.

Of course I want to spread the word. It saddens me to think of how many horses there are out there suffering when this could be alleviated.

Below is a quote from an article in the Natural Horse Magazine written by veterinary surgeon Edward de Beukelaer which questions current beliefs about hoof form:-

_"In my opinion, too much energy is spent on examining small details of pathological findings that are associated with lameness and finding cures for this rather than taking a wider view of the horse's best possible foot shape, which may well avoid some of these lameness problems from arising in the first place" _

Cytek shoeing is intended to promote growth of a healthy, natural  foot shape. Rim shoes are invariably fitted to hooves which are already deformed.
Inevitably this will have a detrimental effect over time.


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## mossolb (21 September 2011)

lubuzz said:



			I hear all these claims about it instantly and dramatically improving the horses stance and movement and freeness of stride...

Come on then show us a before and after video of the same horse shod with cyteks.

Prove it.
		
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Here you are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeYlrjI-X1w


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## digitalangel (21 September 2011)

im still watching your video but a couple of things struck me.

the trim alone would have helped your horse
getting the sole off the floor would help a laminitic become less sore
all the pics of your horses they are standing over themselves in a way which would suggest sore heels.

not for or against cytek, but this isnt proof, sorry.


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## deicinmerlyn (21 September 2011)

Ratcatcher, I may have misunderstood, but did you state that Warwick never used Cytec?

He (approx 15 years ago) shod nearly the entire yard where i worked and over a period of a year those horses had foot and lameness problems. None of them had problems before. It started off as this marvellous new way of farriery and everyone seemed to jump on the bandwagon until it all went wrong.

Since then in this area they have had a bad name.

However I know he trims (unshod) a couple of horses of an aquaintance.


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## maggiesmum (21 September 2011)

mossolb said:



			Do you consider Maggie's Mum's post to be the best because she implies there is something suspicious about new members starting to post in favour of Cytek?
		
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Excuse me mossolb, but do not band my name around out of context! 
Luci07 pointed out ( and quoted me ) that I had said the OP asked for opinions and experiences and that was what she was given! I will repeat it incase you didn't grasp it the first time - the OP asked for opinions and experiences and they received exactly that! Its quite clear that this was what Luci07 was referring to as she quoted my text in her post! 

And for the record yes I do think there is something suspicious about new members popping up that haven't posted in any other threads - and yes i've checked! - just to support this one!
That is MY opinion and the last time I checked I was entitled to express it, if you do not like my opinion that is your problem and not mine. 


Just one more time to be sure you've really grasped it - Luci07 quoted a small part of my post because of its reference to the original question made by the original poster - she did not express that she thinks my post is the best because of my personal skepticism of the new posters on this thread.


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## mossolb (22 September 2011)

maggiesmum said:



			Excuse me mossolb, but do not band my name around out of context! 
Luci07 pointed out ( and quoted me ) that I had said the OP asked for opinions and experiences and that was what she was given! I will repeat it incase you didn't grasp it the first time - the OP asked for opinions and experiences and they received exactly that! Its quite clear that this was what Luci07 was referring to as she quoted my text in her post! 

And for the record yes I do think there is something suspicious about new members popping up that haven't posted in any other threads - and yes i've checked! - just to support this one!
That is MY opinion and the last time I checked I was entitled to express it, if you do not like my opinion that is your problem and not mine. 


Just one more time to be sure you've really grasped it - Luci07 quoted a small part of my post because of its reference to the original question made by the original poster - she did not express that she thinks my post is the best because of my personal skepticism of the new posters on this thread.
		
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Hi maggies mum - why so aggressive. I'm not bandying your name about any more than Luci07 is. If you post on here you may be referred to.
What's the problem? By  now it must be obvious that there is more than one pro poster so I suggest all you antiis try and accept it. Also how do you know what Luci07 meant unless of course you are one and the same. (this is meant to be a joke by the way)
Goos wishes


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## mossolb (22 September 2011)

digitalangel said:



			im still watching your video but a couple of things struck me.

the trim alone would have helped your horse
getting the sole off the floor would help a laminitic become less sore
all the pics of your horses they are standing over themselves in a way which would suggest sore heels.

not for or against cytek, but this isnt proof, sorry.
		
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They are not my horses. I came across this on YouTube - found it interesting and thought others might too. 
Regarding hoof care I would prefer to talk with a farrier I trust who has examined my horses than take advice from someone on a posting site. 
You are stating the obvious when you say the trim alone would have helped.
Also there is much more to the video than before and after pics or haven't you got that far.


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## maggiesmum (22 September 2011)

mossolb said:



			Hi maggies mum - why so aggressive. I'm not bandying your name about any more than Luci07 is. If you post on here you may be referred to.
What's the problem? By  now it must be obvious that there is more than one pro poster so I suggest all you antiis try and accept it. Also how do you know what Luci07 meant unless of course you are one and the same. (this is meant to be a joke by the way)
Goos wishes
		
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Luci07's post - 
A number of people, myself included, have shared direct personal experience with regards to Cytek. It was negative. Those were the facts. The best post was from Maggies Mum - OP asked for experiences/opinions/info and this is exactly what she got.

I know what Luci07 meant because they wrote it down - Page 8, post 80, they didn't quote the whole post, only one sentence of it which makes it blindingly obvious that this is the part of the post they are referring to. You are suggesting they are referring to a different part of my post which they didn't quote.

Of course people will refer to posts on a forum, they will also object to them, disagree with them and sometimes maybe even like them - BUT unless they're quoted or referred to as written its a pointless exercise. My issue is with you twisting the quote and subsequent post into something that it is not, i'm all for healthy debate but to re-write history to suit yourself just isn't cricket.

And i'm loving your suggestion that the anti's accept that there's more than one pro poster, it could be suggested that you take a leaf from your own book and accept that theres more than one anti. 

'Goos' wishes to you to


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## MrsMozart (22 September 2011)

Giddy aunt.

Opinions were sought; opinions were provided.

End of, one would have thought.


But, as MaggiesMum states, amongst other (sorry m'duck, just your name kept popping up ), those who are pro the Cytek are all new members. 

This place is definitely not anit-new people (we were all new here once), and there are numerous threads where the members have opposing views, but those tend to have members who post on a myriad of subjects.

On a forum just about the only way to judge a members level of experience and knowledge is what and how they post, so if the new members post on other subjects (thereby showing their experience and knowledge), then I'll be more inclinded to consider their views on the Cytek.


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## lubuzz (22 September 2011)

mossolb said:



			Here you are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeYlrjI-X1w

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Iv seen that pointless, useless video several times over. Its all you lot post, and it shows nothing.

Its not proof.


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## JoannaC (22 September 2011)

Interesting post.

Well I&#8217;ll share my experience of Cytek shoes but having read the posts previously I&#8217;m not sure if they are genuine cytek or not as my farrier was Warwick.

Anyway my mare who had always been shod traditionally whilst no soundness issues always had windgalls and suddenly started to trip quite badly.   

The yard where I kept her had both Warwick and a traditionall farrier so it was suggested I give the Cytek a try.  Anyway it worked brilliantly for my mare as her windgalls went right down and she stopped tripping.  I kept her in these shoes until I sadly lost her unexpectedly at 15.  She was in them for about 3 years I think.

However Warwick now shoes all the horses at the yard as the traditional farrier went AWOL but I made the decision to keep my gelding in traditional shoes and use the farrier from where I keep my other horse as she is at another yard.  She only has front shoes.

My experience was fine but I admit things I&#8217;ve read and heard have put me off them but if I had a similar problem again I&#8217;d possibly give them a try.


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## mrussell (22 September 2011)

MrsMozart said:



			But, as MaggiesMum states, amongst other (sorry m'duck, just your name kept popping up ), those who are pro the Cytek are all new members.
		
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requoting this because
a) I like seeing MaggiesMum's name
b) not all of the Pro Cytek folk are new (*although I like the thought of being new*)


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## MrsMozart (22 September 2011)

mrussell said:



			requoting this because
a) I like seeing MaggiesMum's name
b) not all of the Pro Cytek folk are new (*although I like the thought of being new*)
		
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It's a good name (and a good poster ); and
you are indeed right and I apologies for my unright - I was swayed from being factually correct by the number and the language of the newbies . New is lovely , and I speak as one who is old and crochety


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## Ratcatcher (22 September 2011)

deicinmerlyn said:



			Ratcatcher, I may have misunderstood, but did you state that Warwick never used Cytec?

No I didn't say that.
		
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## Ratcatcher (22 September 2011)

digitalangel said:



			im still watching your video but a couple of things struck me.

the trim alone would have helped your horse

*Yes - but much better with the cytek shoes on.*

getting the sole off the floor would help a laminitic become less sore

*Your point?*

all the pics of your horses they are standing over themselves in a way which would suggest sore heels.
*
No it doesn't.*

not for or against cytek, but this isnt proof, sorry.
		
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I've just watched this slide show for the first time. If you know what you're looking at it makes perfect sense. If you don't - you'll never be convinced until you make yourself a bit more conversant with biodynamics, anatomy and the basic laws of physics.


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## mossolb (22 September 2011)

maggiesmum said:



			Luci07's post - 
A number of people, myself included, have shared direct personal experience with regards to Cytek. It was negative. Those were the facts. The best post was from Maggies Mum - OP asked for experiences/opinions/info and this is exactly what she got.

I know what Luci07 meant because they wrote it down - Page 8, post 80, they didn't quote the whole post, only one sentence of it which makes it blindingly obvious that this is the part of the post they are referring to. You are suggesting they are referring to a different part of my post which they didn't quote.

Of course people will refer to posts on a forum, they will also object to them, disagree with them and sometimes maybe even like them - BUT unless they're quoted or referred to as written its a pointless exercise. My issue is with you twisting the quote and subsequent post into something that it is not, i'm all for healthy debate but to re-write history to suit yourself just isn't cricket.

And i'm loving your suggestion that the anti's accept that there's more than one pro poster, it could be suggested that you take a leaf from your own book and accept that theres more than one anti. 

'Goos' wishes to you to 

Click to expand...

Ok maggiesmum you win. Everything you say is right and always will be. you are the fount of all wisdom and knowledge.
Enough is enough. I've got better things to do with my time. I'm out of here. All this irrelevant nonsense because some people have challenged the ill informed nonsense written about cytek shoes.


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## Ratcatcher (22 September 2011)

lubuzz said:



			Iv seen that pointless, useless video several times over. Its all you lot post, and it shows nothing.

Its not proof.
		
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This is a rather insubstantial statement and sounds a little desperate.

As I replied to digitangel:

If you know what you're looking at it makes perfect sense. If you don't - you'll never be convinced until you make yourself a bit more conversant with biodynamics, anatomy and the basic laws of physics.


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## Ratcatcher (22 September 2011)

mossolb said:



			Ok maggiesmum you win. Everything you say is right and always will be. you are the fount of all wisdom and knowledge.
Enough is enough. I've got better things to do with my time. I'm out of here. All this irrelevant nonsense because some people have challenged the ill informed nonsense written about cytek shoes.
		
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I share your view mossolb. The arguments against boil down to:

I don't like Warwick (although he's not been involved for years now)
I don't like the sound of the shoes 
I don't like the look of the shoes
My farrier doesn't like them
I had a bad experience once (the only genuine reason - but then how many have bad experiences with trad.shoes?)
I heard that a friend's, friend's, friend had a bad experience
I've heard 'things' about them but haven't been bothered to check them out 
I don't understand what I'm looking at or how it works, therefore it must be bad.
My trainer doesn't like them

It's all a very poor show and the ones who'll really pay the price?  - the horse.

The one thing about debating with the antis is that they can't help but demonstrate they actually know nothing about the shoe or how it is designed let alone anatomy or biodynamics and have to resort to very poor arguments because they 'just don't like them'.  They don't see this of course and they'll swear the opposite but that's just the way they do things.


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## mrussell (22 September 2011)

shall we just say then that they work for some... and not for others ?


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## EquiLight (22 September 2011)

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed. 
Second, it is violently opposed. 
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

I am, sadly, not surprised by the amount of harsh judgement and criticism on this thread from people that have not even had personal experience of cytek. Even one person who has had a positive experience with her mare has been put off by the ludicrous and erroneous accusations.  

I have Cytek's founding farrier taking excellent care of all of my horses, all of whom have benefited from the transition. I have seen Cytek shoes help 3 other horses recover from lameness that had been attributed to laminitis but this was a veterinary error (no surprises there!!). 

In my surrounding area, I know of over 20 horses all on Cyteks in front, and not 1 bad experience has been reported. Quite the contrary, all of the horses have benefited.

I am proud to be one of the newbies, it seems we are a more open-minded and open-hearted sort


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## A1fie (22 September 2011)

Two points - firstly, who fancies starting a thread called cytek v barefoot and then sitting back and watching the resulting debate?!    

Secondly, Maggiesmum - please can I have your contact details as I have been looking for ages for someone who is the font of all knowledge!


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## marie_d_3 (22 September 2011)

This thread is a real eye-opener.  I haven't read all the posts but enough to gather that there is a huge amount of "anti-Cytek" that I hadn't realised about.

A year and a half ago my mare was diagnosed with cushings and laminitis.  She had been happily barefoot for a number of years before.  She was extremely lame with the laminitis and my farrier put Cytek shoes on her fronts.  She was instantly SO much better.  He advised that the laminitis was likely to cause abscesses which it did but he dealt with them very quickly and efficiently with no poulticing necessary.

A year and a half on she is fully sound and I can honestly say she is moving better than ever before (and she was always a good mover anyway).  

As I understand Cytek it changes the break-over point of when the foot lifts off the floor and helps to lighten the forehand.  I probably haven't said it properly though and will now be shot down in flames!

I ask my farrier for more into when he comes tonight!


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## Foxhunter49 (22 September 2011)

Some years ago my farrier went away on a course and came back with the idea that by knocking the toe right back it gave the horse a better roll over.
In theory this was started by some American farrier who noticed that several mustangs from the wild had more squared off toes.
At this point I will say that I have had many ponies, Welsh, New Forest and Dartmoor ponies that have been in the 'wild' and never had one with squared off toes)

I had the horses shod by this method and hated it more than the horses did. The break over came faster because of the roll of the toe but because of this happening they were taking a shorter stride as when the weight was on the opposite foot and the break over happening faster, they had to 'land' with the other foot faster. Result was a short shuffling stride rather than a good use of the shoulder.

It can work _if_ the horse is well supported at the heels but as this picture shows, they often are not.

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10750

This picture show no heel support at all. If this horse was shod over a period of time with the Cyteks it would result in dropped heels. In the second picture you can see the lack of heel support from the underside.

Look at the lower picture and see what heel support the horse has with conventional shoes and a decent farrier.


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## prophecy10 (22 September 2011)

Looking at Foxhunter's picture. The lower picture I see, the that the hoof wall is being forced to take the weight & that the p3 bone is not being supported at all. The hoof wall takes no weight in nature! And I suspect that your wild ponies didn't have squared off toes because they didn't have a preditor to push them forward for them to travel the milage (10-20 miles a day) Obviously we don't want our animals to be preyed upon, but that is what happens in nature! Mustangs & brumbies are in great shape & so are their feet. I have seen exmores, welshies & dartmores too & it's because there is nothing to make them do the miles, so some of those have to be brought in for routine checks & foot trims under sadation! Where's the nature in that? But like I said earlier, we dont want to see anything suffer, so I do agree with wild ponies being checked, maybe stress for them. So man does whatt he does! Man domesticates horse, man puts horse in a paddock, man should try to do the best for their feet & teeth! Which man does! Hopefully we'll all have happy horses, we all do what we can for them whether its right in someones eyes or wrong in others eyes! 
From my experiences of cytek, my horse are far better, happier, with a free flowing natural gait (No shortened paces) Could it be that long stretching paces are over compensating from a long toes & trying to take the weight off. Certainly was with one of my horses, he used to kind of march like a soldier but has a beautiful balanced normal gait now all from the 2nd shoeing.


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## prophecy10 (22 September 2011)

Ratcatcher also seems font of all knowledge too. Gives great factual advice advice & info too I think!


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## prophecy10 (22 September 2011)

marie_d_3 said:



			This thread is a real eye-opener.  I haven't read all the posts but enough to gather that there is a huge amount of "anti-Cytek" that I hadn't realised about.

A year and a half ago my mare was diagnosed with cushings and laminitis.  She had been happily barefoot for a number of years before.  She was extremely lame with the laminitis and my farrier put Cytek shoes on her fronts.  She was instantly SO much better.  He advised that the laminitis was likely to cause abscesses which it did but he dealt with them very quickly and efficiently with no poulticing necessary.

A year and a half on she is fully sound and I can honestly say she is moving better than ever before (and she was always a good mover anyway).  

As I understand Cytek it changes the break-over point of when the foot lifts off the floor and helps to lighten the forehand.  I probably haven't said it properly though and will now be shot down in flames!

I ask my farrier for more into when he comes tonight!
		
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Yes I believe that cyetk brings the horse's foot back to a natural shape similar to that of a wild horse's. With a natural break over point of where it should really be!


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## prophecy10 (22 September 2011)

deicinmerlyn said:



			Ratcatcher, I may have misunderstood, but did you state that Warwick never used Cytec?

He (approx 15 years ago) shod nearly the entire yard where i worked and over a period of a year those horses had foot and lameness problems. None of them had problems before. It started off as this marvellous new way of farriery and everyone seemed to jump on the bandwagon until it all went wrong.

Since then in this area they have had a bad name.

However I know he trims (unshod) a couple of horses of an aquaintance.
		
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You said it yourself! Maybe the farrier didn't know what he was doing then? It's sad that people blame the system. But I suspect they're going to blame if they have no other experience, than only a bad one. It's hard to beat!!


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## prophecy10 (22 September 2011)

MrsMozart said:



			Giddy aunt.

Opinions were sought; opinions were provided.

End of, one would have thought.


But, as MaggiesMum states, amongst other (sorry m'duck, just your name kept popping up ), those who are pro the Cytek are all new members. 

This place is definitely not anit-new people (we were all new here once), and there are numerous threads where the members have opposing views, but those tend to have members who post on a myriad of subjects.

On a forum just about the only way to judge a members level of experience and knowledge is what and how they post, so if the new members post on other subjects (thereby showing their experience and knowledge), then I'll be more inclinded to consider their views on the Cytek.
		
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This is a public forum, am I wrong? 

Seems closed minded, to only be open to opinions of people that post in other forums.
I only post in subjects that i'm passionate about & want to protect. Which at the moment is this. I suspect this may not be read by you though, because new people seem not worthy apparently?


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## prophecy10 (22 September 2011)

lubuzz said:



			I hear all these claims about it instantly and dramatically improving the horses stance and movement and freeness of stride...

Come on then show us a before and after video of the same horse shod with cyteks.

Prove it.
		
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGGgPcU3eTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWmPkzukWBQ


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## EquiLight (22 September 2011)

Great links Prophesy  I was fortunate to meet the veterinarian (who is also a Cytek master farrier) who personally saw this transition shown in the first video, about the horse Millennium. 

I have also met 2 other long term farriers that now only shoe with Cytek because they have seen the brutal damage caused by conventional farriery.

It's no wonder that there is a mass opposition to Cytek, the shoes only need replacing every 12 weeks, that's a drop in wages for your average Mr. Farrier. Not mentioning the reduction in vet bills too... the establishment certainly do not want the health benefits of Cytek made public. Good job most people are sheeples and refuse to see truth even when it's right there with flashing lights on!


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## marie_d_3 (23 September 2011)

EquiLight said:



			Great links Prophesy  I was fortunate to meet the veterinarian (who is also a Cytek master farrier) who personally saw this transition shown in the first video, about the horse Millennium. 

I have also met 2 other long term farriers that now only shoe with Cytek because they have seen the brutal damage caused by conventional farriery.

It's no wonder that there is a mass opposition to Cytek, the shoes only need replacing every 12 weeks, that's a drop in wages for your average Mr. Farrier. Not mentioning the reduction in vet bills too... the establishment certainly do not want the health benefits of Cytek made public. Good job most people are sheeples and refuse to see truth even when it's right there with flashing lights on!
		
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I think you've hit the nail on the head Equilight (no pun intended!).  As I understand it the shoes are also made in a different way to traditional shoes which would require the big suppliers to invest in epensive new machinery to produce them if there was a mass change over to people using Cytek shoes.  These big suppliers also put a lot of money into training young farriers and are therefore in a good position to put Cytek in a bad light from the start in order to keep us all buying traditional shoes that they are already set up to produce.

I'm glad we've heard some support for Cytek on here at last because for me personally they've only bought improvements.  I looked at them closely last night when my farrier came and they do support the heels, contrary to another post.  

I guess however, that any shoe is only as good as the farrier who puts it on


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## MrsMozart (23 September 2011)

prophecy10 said:



			This is a public forum, am I wrong? 

Seems closed minded, to only be open to opinions of people that post in other forums.
I only post in subjects that i'm passionate about & want to protect. Which at the moment is this. I suspect this may not be read by you though, because new people seem not worthy apparently?
		
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Unless I read more from you that shows me your depth and breadth of knowledge and experience, then my mind will be closed to you.

I will not risk my horses' health for words written by a stranger, who appears to only be passionate about one type of shoes - your words, you write about what you are passionate about. I await to see if you are passionate about helping people with a problem with their horse; about a rescue animal; about travel for slaughter; or any of the other myriad of subjects on this public forum.

So far, the new people who have posted about the Cytek have done nothing to get me interested in it, quite the opposite in fact. I have researched the shoe and so far found more negative than positive, so add that to the newbie posts on here and, to date, that is two more horses that will not be shod the Cytek way.


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## Ratcatcher (23 September 2011)

It can work _if_ the horse is well supported at the heels but as this picture shows, they often are not.

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10750

This picture show no heel support at all. If this horse was shod over a period of time with the Cyteks it would result in dropped heels. In the second picture you can see the lack of heel support from the underside.

Look at the lower picture and see what heel support the horse has with conventional shoes and a decent farrier.[/QUOTE]


Foxhunter - the shortened stride you describe is the exact opposite of the experiences described on this forum.

Re. the photo - are you looking at the same one as me?

I see excellent heel support, foot support and protection. 

What is the virtue in extending the shoe beyond the heels?  You are supporting nothing, just increasing the chances of an overreach, losing a shoe and possibly a nasty injury. It is as effective as you walking around with something sticking out of the back of your shoe. How do you think barefoot horses get about?

If you read the threads on this particular forum you will see some of the best examples of the ignorance, vitriol and sheer fear that some farriers have towards this shoe.


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## YorksG (23 September 2011)

Have read some of the stuff at the beginning of this thread, then come back at this point. May I just point out that Brumbies and Mustang are NOT true wild horses, they are ferral horses, their ancestors were bred for a purpose and then the animals were turned loose or escaped, so none of these are truely wild and have not developed without the intervention of humans.


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## Ratcatcher (23 September 2011)

MrsMozart said:



			Unless I read more from you that shows me your depth and breadth of knowledge and experience, then my mind will be closed to you.

I will not risk my horses' health for words written by a stranger, who appears to only be passionate about one type of shoes - your words, you write about what you are passionate about. I await to see if you are passionate about helping people with a problem with their horse; about a rescue animal; about travel for slaughter; or any of the other myriad of subjects on this public forum.

So far, the new people who have posted about the Cytek have done nothing to get me interested in it, quite the opposite in fact. I have researched the shoe and so far found more negative than positive, so add that to the newbie posts on here and, to date, that is two more horses that will not be shod the Cytek way.
		
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Dear Mrs.Mozart - You make the assumption that because some of the pro-cytek posters are new that we do not care about such things?  There are many pressing issues in the horse world. To my mind one of the most important - perhaps THE most important - is ensuring our horses are comfortable, sound and pain free. Perhaps then their lives will be longer, happier and fewer of them will end up in the knacker's yards, they will be more able to stand up to the pressures and demands we force on them and not condemned to the agonies of laminitis, ill fitting shoes that cripple them or the side effects of the medication that routinely gets thrown down their throats to treat these problems.

Farriery is not a very attention-grabbing subject for most owners but when it comes to making a difference to _any_ horse's life many may believe it is the most important.


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## MrsMozart (23 September 2011)

Ratcatcher said:



			Dear Mrs.Mozart - You make the assumption that because some of the pro-cytek posters are new that we do not care about such things?  There are many pressing issues in the horse world. To my mind one of the most important - perhaps THE most important - is ensuring our horses are comfortable, sound and pain free. Perhaps then their lives will be longer, happier and fewer of them will end up in the knacker's yards, they will be more able to stand up to the pressures and demands we force on them and not condemned to the agonies of laminitis, ill fitting shoes that cripple them or the side effects of the medication that routinely gets thrown down their throats to treat these problems.

Farriery is not a very attention-grabbing subject for most owners but when it comes to making a difference to _any_ horse's life it is the most important.
		
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And I again reiterate - when I see more from the newbies, when I can review and balance out their level of knowledge and experience across the board, then I will review my opinion of something that they are so passionate about, i.e. the Cytek shoe. Until then I reserve the right to view their words, rightly or wrongly, as so much advertising puff, which is not to detract from those that say they have found the Cytek works, which, from my research to date, is in the minority.

A note to point: if you search on this forum, you will find that farriery and shoeless are 'headline grabbers'.


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## Ratcatcher (23 September 2011)

Mrs.Mozart - You have the gift of free will to do just as you wish. Your horses don't.


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## lubuzz (23 September 2011)

Haha, enough! i just cant take this poster seriously.

Drama Queen


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## Ratcatcher (23 September 2011)

lubuzz said:



			Haha, enough! i just cant take this poster seriously.

Drama Queen 

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Another very enlightening comment by lubuzz.


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## MrsMozart (23 September 2011)

Ratcatcher said:



			Mrs.Mozart - You have the gift of free will to do just as you wish. Your horses don't.
		
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Sorry, that makes no sense in the context of this discussion. If you wish to debate the definition of 'free will', then that is another subject entirely.

If this is the level it is to continue at, I will make my excuses and leave the thread.


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## Ratcatcher (23 September 2011)

MrsMozart said:



			Sorry, that makes no sense in the context of this discussion. If you wish to debate the definition of 'free will', then that is another subject entirely.

If this is the level it is to continue at, I will make my excuses and leave the thread.
		
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Perhaps I did not make myself clear - I was referring to your right to choose to do whatever you want - in the particular context you spoke of - ie whether to take notice of other postings or not and now whether you leave this thread or not.


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## lubuzz (23 September 2011)

Ratcatcher said:



			Another very enlightening comment by lubuzz.
		
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I too have found your posts very enlightening


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## EquiLight (24 September 2011)

Here is a new video documenting one of my horse's journey from lameness to soundness thanks to Cytek. She arrived after a long lorry journey (nobody wanted her any longer after she had been lame for several months with laminitis), is videoed hopping lame, and sound just minutes later after Cytek.

I have enough previous experience with my Cytek farrier who has transformed my other 5 horses through Cytek barefoot trimming and shown me 3 leg dissections, that I believed that he could help her be sound, which he has, she now has a chance of a long and healthy life!

Because of Cytek, I took on a 16 year old laminitic mare, who is now sound and well and has been out on the rich, lush grass all this time without restriction and NO MORE LAMINITIS.

Here is the video, which for me is proof. No doubt it will be shot down here! May it shine a light for the many thousands of equines who need it though, whose owners need to know about this, as it could help their horse just like it helped Cleo, with no vets, no bute, no pain, and just £55 for a trim and front shoes. This is soundness we all need to know about 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlDYM5gyEdk


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## mossolb (24 September 2011)

EquiLight said:



			Here is a new video documenting one of my horse's journey from lameness to soundness thanks to Cytek. She arrived after a long lorry journey (nobody wanted her any longer after she had been lame for several months with laminitis), is videoed hopping lame, and sound just minutes later after Cytek.

I have enough previous experience with my Cytek farrier who has transformed my other 5 horses through Cytek barefoot trimming and shown me 3 leg dissections, that I believed that he could help her be sound, which he has, she now has a chance of a long and healthy life!

Because of Cytek, I took on a 16 year old laminitic mare, who is now sound and well and has been out on the rich, lush grass all this time without restriction and NO MORE LAMINITIS.

Here is the video, which for me is proof. No doubt it will be shot down here! May it shine a light for the many thousands of equines who need it though, whose owners need to know about this, as it could help their horse just like it helped Cleo, with no vets, no bute, no pain, and just £55 for a trim and front shoes. This is soundness we all need to know about 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlDYM5gyEdk

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Thankyou Equilight for your efforts to inform others and help horses to get the treatment they need and deserve.
The condition of my horses is proof and only this morning my friend, a more recent convert, told me how happy she was with her horse. She said her horse is really enjoying their hacks and she feels totally different to ride. She steps out freely and confidently and although I haven't ridden her since the change to Cytek I can see the transformation not least in her demeanor - she is now a happy pain free horse. 

It makes me sad to think of how many horses are suffering needlessly due to ignorance, closed minds and arrogance on the part of their owners. They are so forgiving and dependent on their owners for their well being. It reminds me of the words that I have heard so often "there's nothing wrong with giving a child a good hiding, it didn't do me any harm". To me that attitude speaks for itself. Sadly I see the same attitude surfacing in some of the posts.

Your horses are truly fortunateto have found such a caring guardian - long may you all thrive.


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## cptrayes (24 September 2011)

EquiLight said:



			Because of Cytek, I took on a 16 year old laminitic mare, who is now sound and well and has been out on the rich, lush grass all this time without restriction and NO MORE LAMINITIS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlDYM5gyEdk

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I'm sorry, but dietary laminitis cannot be cured with shoes, it's a gut disease. If this horse was sound immediately in shoes and has been able to eat lush grass ever since then its digestion of grass was simply not its problem in the first place.

I have no problem with Cytek shoes, and if my horses had to be shod they make more sense to me than rim shoes do. But it would be doing no favours to anyone for them to read your post and think that they can cure a horse of dietary laminitis with any kind of shoeing.


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## EquiLight (24 September 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I have no problem with Cytek shoes, and if my horses had to be shod they make more sense to me than rim shoes do. But it would be doing no favours to anyone for them to read your post and think that they can cure a horse of dietary laminitis with any kind of shoeing.
		
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Dietary laminitis is caused by toxicity of the body primarily because of incorrect compression of the hoof which restricts blood circulation around the hoof structure, allowing toxins to accumulate and cause inflammation. Dietary laminitis can indeed be alleviated by Cytek shoes (or another type of farriery which restores the hoof's natural function and blood supply), because the root cause of it is caused by the mechanical stress on the horses' system from incorrect hoof function (which in turn affects the function of the internal organs).

Once this stress is removed from the body, previously laminitic horses who reacted to grass can return to a normal grazing lifestyle because the increased circulation prevents toxins from causing inflammation in the laminae.

I am not making Cytek out to be a miracle cure, it simply restores natural hoof function, and it's the lack of natural function that causes the many problems with horses which we see today. Humanity needs to learn to always get to the root cause of problems so that we can remedy them, instead of always just dealing with the symptoms. 

Cleo is one of 3 horses that I personally know of who have been diagnosed with laminitis, told to be kept of grass with restricted grazing for life, and all 3 are safely on grass full time without restriction after Cytek.

Poor vets


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## prophecy10 (24 September 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I'm sorry, but dietary laminitis cannot be cured with shoes, it's a gut disease. If this horse was sound immediately in shoes and has been able to eat lush grass ever since then its digestion of grass was simply not its problem in the first place.

I have no problem with Cytek shoes, and if my horses had to be shod they make more sense to me than rim shoes do. But it would be doing no favours to anyone for them to read your post and think that they can cure a horse of dietary laminitis with any kind of shoeing.
		
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Have you heard of machanical laminitus? Any horse can be suseptible to it. 
It begins when a horse has a long toe & hoof wall, thus putting pressure on the sensative laminae on the underside of the hoof. 

Try this......

Make a claw shape with your hand, then firmly tap your finger tips on your wall.

Keep doing it, do it nice & firmly! 

See how you feel?

Horses with cytek shoes on are well protected!

Lots of love to all horses out there!


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## prophecy10 (24 September 2011)

EquiLight said:



			Here is a new video documenting one of my horse's journey from lameness to soundness thanks to Cytek. She arrived after a long lorry journey (nobody wanted her any longer after she had been lame for several months with laminitis), is videoed hopping lame, and sound just minutes later after Cytek.

I have enough previous experience with my Cytek farrier who has transformed my other 5 horses through Cytek barefoot trimming and shown me 3 leg dissections, that I believed that he could help her be sound, which he has, she now has a chance of a long and healthy life!

Because of Cytek, I took on a 16 year old laminitic mare, who is now sound and well and has been out on the rich, lush grass all this time without restriction and NO MORE LAMINITIS.

Here is the video, which for me is proof. No doubt it will be shot down here! May it shine a light for the many thousands of equines who need it though, whose owners need to know about this, as it could help their horse just like it helped Cleo, with no vets, no bute, no pain, and just £55 for a trim and front shoes. This is soundness we all need to know about 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlDYM5gyEdk

Click to expand...

AMAZING POST!! AMAZING VIDEO!!


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## prophecy10 (24 September 2011)

A1fie said:



			Two points - firstly, who fancies starting a thread called cytek v barefoot and then sitting back and watching the resulting debate?!    

Secondly, Maggiesmum - please can I have your contact details as I have been looking for ages for someone who is the font of all knowledge! 

Click to expand...

Yay I like Barefoot!
You don't always have to have the shoes. Cytek trims are great too!


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## cptrayes (24 September 2011)

prophecy10 said:



			Have you heard of machanical laminitus? Any horse can be suseptible to it.
		
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Yes.  I said "dietary laminitis cannot be cured with shoes". The post I quoted said that this horse had been able to eat lush grass ever since being shod with cyteks and I maintain my position that it would not be possible for the horse to be unaffected in the feet by the consumption of limitless quantities of lush grass if it was a dietary laminitic. The horse may well have had laminitis of another cause, but it certainly wasn't a dietary laminitic, who would have been absolutely crippled by the consumption of that much grass, shoes or no shoes. I think it is downright dangerous for anyone to read this thread and believe that they can have Cyteks popped on their limping pony and turn it out 24/7.


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## cptrayes (24 September 2011)

EquiLight said:



			Dietary laminitis is caused by toxicity of the body primarily because of incorrect compression of the hoof which restricts blood circulation around the hoof structure, allowing toxins to accumulate and cause inflammation. Dietary laminitis can indeed be alleviated by Cytek shoes (or another type of farriery which restores the hoof's natural function and blood supply), because the root cause of it is caused by the mechanical stress on the horses' system from incorrect hoof function (which in turn affects the function of the internal organs).

Once this stress is removed from the body, previously laminitic horses who reacted to grass can return to a normal grazing lifestyle because the increased circulation prevents toxins from causing inflammation in the laminae.
		
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I'm sorry but I think this is very far from the true story for the majority of laminitics. I have owned two barefoot ones one capable of Novice BE eventing and one capable of all normal RC activities as long as their grass was restricted. These horses were sound on all surfaces barefoot and did miles of roadwork too. Their issue was grass, not foot function.

If you check posts on this forum and on barefoot forums you will read of many, many barefoot horses which are stonkingly sound all winter and then when the grass comes through, with no  change in foot function, become sensitive to stones. Sensitivity which disappears as soon as their access to too much fresh green food is removed.  I own two of these right now. If they had not been kept off daylight grass for the summer they would not have been able to walk happily on stones. That is low grade laminitis, yet their foot function is as perfect as it's possible to get it.

Pain from dietary laminitis can be reduced by good barefoot trimming and by Cytek shoeing, both of which spread weight onto the sole and lessen the leverage of the hoof wall away from the laminae. Neither can cure dietary laminitis which is inflammation of the laminae caused by toxins in the bloodstream produced by bacteria in the hind gut.


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## prophecy10 (25 September 2011)

It's great you are willing to see that the way cytek shoes function, makes sense & gives a more natural way of helping the foot function properly 

For the people who may read this thread, I would just like to say that my cytec farrier would never put a shoe on a limping pony/horse in pain. He cares about horses & knows when to put a shoe on or not. I have the farrier who shod the horse in the previous posted video.


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## EquiLight (30 October 2011)

New article in Horse & Hound states that 'Lameness is the most common reason for euthanasia'. '24% were euthanased due to lameness, while an additional 12% were put down through laminitis'.

A total of 36% of euthanised horses due to lameness suggests to me we have a long way to go in supporting the health of our horses, especially when there is such a stubborn resistance to improvements such as Cytek, resistance founded in ignorance.

H&H article: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/310211.html


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## Oberon (30 October 2011)

I don't understand the need for expensive shoeing options. Taking a horse barefoot with a decent diet and a sympathetic trim works wonders for half the price.

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2010/09/state-of-art-hooves.html


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## EquiLight (30 October 2011)

All of my 6 horses are barefoot, and have improved thanks to the Cytek Facet Trim, which removed excess weight from the hoof wall through precision angling, restoring a thicker sole and functioning frog. Even after 10 weeks none of my horses are showing any cracks, flares, or stress on the hoof wall, even my Shires (who used to flare after 4 weeks). 

Also Cytek shoes are cheaper than conventional farriery, and generally only require the fronts to be shod if the horse's work-load demands it. 

Regardless of the trim/shoe name, it's the function and benefit to the horse that matters. A natural, compact hoof leads to a naturally healthy horse


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## Oberon (30 October 2011)

I am pleased for your horses. They seems to have found a system that works well for them.

I do think it's dangerous to use a specific style of trim though. I think it's better to trim according to the horse's needs rather than to a model. That goes for all schools of thought (wild horse, HPT, Strasser, four point etc, not just Cytek).


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## mossolb (30 October 2011)

Oberon said:



			I don't understand the need for expensive shoeing options. Taking a horse barefoot with a decent diet and a sympathetic trim works wonders for half the price.

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2010/09/state-of-art-hooves.html

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Yet again a fallacy being quoted. Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with what you say about diet and "sympathetic" trim what makes you think that Cytec is more expensive. Both my horses were barefoot and are now front shod with Cytek, it costs me about £80.00 a year less than before. 
That, however, was not the reason for my choice which was informed by my research, my observations of my horses improved hoof health, gait, stance etc. and observations of similar experiences of colleagues/friends horses.
What I find interesting and suspicious is the attitude of so many posters, if a new approach to hoof health which quite obviously has helped many people and their horses comes to light then why not give it a chance instead of condemning it.
I started riding as a child many moons ago and since then so much has changed in terms of a better understanding of horse welfare which I welcome as ultimately the horses benefit. 
Everyone mounted from the ground until it was revealed that a mounting block was less damaging to the horse. Horses were routinely wormed until just a few years ago until it was revealed that too much worming was making the parasites resistant so worm counts are now advocated. I could site many other instances of evolved thinking in terms of horse health, management and training but no doubt you are aware of them.

I find it helpful to reflect on why I might be automatically resistant to something new in any area of my life if this occurs. I usually find that it is underpinned by fear and lack of knowledge. No one can force us to change our minds but if we keep them closed we miss out on so much and in this case so might our horses who are dependent on us for their good health and welfare.

I, currently, know of three people who have lame horses. One has toes that are obviously too long, the other two believe it's due to arthritis. I just wish they would give Cytek a chance not because I have any vested interest just because I would love to see some relief for the animals. 

Surely everyone who posts on this site would hope that all horse owners would put their prejudices and ego's on one side and exlore all opportunities to learn more even if having explored they decide to continue as before. Being willing to reconsider and maybe change one's mind is, I believe a sign of courage and strength. Without this we would still be in the dark ages regarding animal welfare and sadly I think some people are.


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## Oberon (30 October 2011)

OK. You carry on love.


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## DragonSlayer (30 October 2011)

I find it amusing the 'Pro-Cytek' posters are all relatively new posters....

I have two horses bare-foot, and 2 horses that are shod.

All are now over 15, all are in work...

NEVER had laminitis in any of them.

Never needed any 'fancy farrier' work, good, sound and knowledgable work on my horses from an excellent farrier who certainly knows his onions. I'll go with the expert who trained in his home country at his trade, THEN had to complete the farrier course (4 years...?) here rather than letting anyone who 'took a 3-month course now I know it all' to work with my horses.

My farrier also trims the bare-foot ones, and they are BOTH ridden regulaly all over the place, including the roads....

My point is this - IF something works for you, then good, I am happy for you. What bugs me is that too many people feel they have to FORCE their 'new ways' onto other people. I say, live and let live. You do what YOU want, I'll do what I want.


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## tallyho! (30 October 2011)

*sigh*


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## prophecy10 (30 October 2011)

mossolb said:



			Yet again a fallacy being quoted. Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with what you say about diet and "sympathetic" trim what makes you think that Cytec is more expensive. Both my horses were barefoot and are now front shod with Cytek, it costs me about £80.00 a year less than before. 
That, however, was not the reason for my choice which was informed by my research, my observations of my horses improved hoof health, gait, stance etc. and observations of similar experiences of colleagues/friends horses.
What I find interesting and suspicious is the attitude of so many posters, if a new approach to hoof health which quite obviously has helped many people and their horses comes to light then why not give it a chance instead of condemning it.
I started riding as a child many moons ago and since then so much has changed in terms of a better understanding of horse welfare which I welcome as ultimately the horses benefit. 
Everyone mounted from the ground until it was revealed that a mounting block was less damaging to the horse. Horses were routinely wormed until just a few years ago until it was revealed that too much worming was making the parasites resistant so worm counts are now advocated. I could site many other instances of evolved thinking in terms of horse health, management and training but no doubt you are aware of them.

I find it helpful to reflect on why I might be automatically resistant to something new in any area of my life if this occurs. I usually find that it is underpinned by fear and lack of knowledge. No one can force us to change our minds but if we keep them closed we miss out on so much and in this case so might our horses who are dependent on us for their good health and welfare.

I, currently, know of three people who have lame horses. One has toes that are obviously too long, the other two believe it's due to arthritis. I just wish they would give Cytek a chance not because I have any vested interest just because I would love to see some relief for the animals. 

Surely everyone who posts on this site would hope that all horse owners would put their prejudices and ego's on one side and exlore all opportunities to learn more even if having explored they decide to continue as before. Being willing to reconsider and maybe change one's mind is, I believe a sign of courage and strength. Without this we would still be in the dark ages regarding animal welfare and sadly I think some people are.
		
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Great post mossolb! I find your words inspiring!


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## EquiLight (6 November 2011)

Here is a follow-up video of Cleo's transition, where just after her 2nd Cytek visit (12 weeks of shoes in front and then a barefoot trim) where she is now cantering around freely, out on the rich autumn grass with no more lameness. She is still short behind but this has been a long-standing problem in her pelvis, but all of her chronic lameness infront has gone. She's the white mare running like the wind in the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMXDID7xOOo

Happy viewing


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