# Crosses that just don't work



## JJS (26 July 2017)

I've just seen another of the numerous posts on sales sites that advertise a cob crossed with a Friesian, and I simply can't work out why people do it. Although I'm sure there are some lovely mixes out there who buck the trend, I've yet to see one, with most appearing to have oversized heads and oddly long, scrawny necks and bodies. Nor have I seen a single good example of cobs crossed with warmbloods, which seems to be another new fad. I honestly think that these crosses are done simply because cobs are cheap, and warmbloods and Friesians are in vogue right now, making the offspring economical to breed but more marketable when aimed at novice buyers. 

Does anyone else see some of the new crosses around and wonder why, or am I the only one? There are lots of fantastic old-fashioned mixes, but the abundance of backyard breeders appear to prefer getting hold of a fashionable stallion and just letting it run with poorly conformed coloured cob mares to get youngsters with no real utility. It all seems rather sad to me, especially for all of the resultant ponies who appear doomed to conformational issues down the line because of a lack of foresight on the parts of those who've bred them.   

And no, I'm certainly not a breed purist or a Gypsy Cob hater, as these two prove, so if I've noticed it, I'm sure other people must have too!


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## AFB (26 July 2017)

Yes definitely, I wish there could be some form of regulation behind breeding (although practically can't see a way that would work) to force people to actually consider what they're putting together.

Example that really irks me is a local physio that had a mare that was utterly b***ocksed at an early age and decided she'd just stick it in foal - someone that really should have known better!


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## milliepops (26 July 2017)

Lol, this smells like a thread that could go wrong as people defend their weird crosses! :lol:
I agree in general, there are some odd animals about and you have to wonder whether they will be useful horses in the end or not...

that's my 2p, now to defend cob x WB, I am rather fond of mine and I would have another... irish bog pony x Hann


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## Elf On A Shelf (26 July 2017)

Shetlands crossed with anything are always ugly as sin but they do make good, hardworking, durable kids ponies.


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## JJS (26 July 2017)

milliepops said:



			Lol, this smells like a thread that could go wrong as people defend their weird crosses! :lol:
I agree in general, there are some odd animals about and you have to wonder whether they will be useful horses in the end or not...
		
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I do hope it doesn't take that turn, but can see how it might! To explain a little more, I do mean the crosses that have been thrown together purely as a money-making scheme, even though the parents have nothing in them to complement each other. Well-selected parents of both of the crosses I used as examples have the potential to be lovely, as your gorgeous pony proves, but there seems to be a trend to focus on something other than confirmation for a certain type of breeder.  

I have a Gypsy Cob x Welsh D baby myself, so I know how nice these sorts of crosses can be. Unfortunately, the type you see on the market at the moment are over-priced, poor representations, which is hardly setting them up to have a good life. Hopefully that bit of clarification will stop the thread from derailing or becoming too contentious *crosses fingers*


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## ihatework (26 July 2017)

I agree with the sentiment but disagree with the cob x warm blood having seen a number of good examples in my time!


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## JJS (26 July 2017)

ihatework said:



			I agree with the sentiment but disagree with the cob x warm blood having seen a number of good examples in my time!
		
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As I said, I do know that there will be some fantastic examples out there, but I primarily mean the type that are always being advertised on Facebook. Being honest, I suspect that many of them don't have a drop of warmblood in them anyway - it's all about making them marketable by being able to use warmblood or Friesian (or any other fashionable breed) in the title of an advert.


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## Micropony (26 July 2017)

I suppose the thing with crosses is people do it hoping for the best of both, but there will always be some out there that get the worst of both. I have met a few shire x tb like that - a stereotypical wired TB brain in the body of a brick outhouse probably wasn't what the breeder was aiming for! But it can also be a very useful cross when it works.


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## SEL (26 July 2017)

Perhaps the thread should be a 'why the h3ll would you let that reproduce?' rather than focusing on particular types? There was a bit of run on FB a while back of mares who were out of work being passed on as 'potential broodmare'. Most of the time I couldn't see why you would want a foal out of them, but there was always interest.

I'll throw my draft x appy mare into the mix. She was bred for meat so we'll forgive her her many shortcomings, but the only plus about breeding from her is I'd get a spotty foal - and I like spots. BUT that is the only plus, so I'm afraid she'll have to continue safely flirting with the geldings!


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## SEL (26 July 2017)

Micropony said:



			I have met a few shire x tb like that - a stereotypical wired TB brain in the body of a brick outhouse probably wasn't what the breeder was aiming for! But it can also be a very useful cross when it works.
		
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I used to ride one of those! He was a good looking boy, but a hot headed tank. Selling him onto a 16 stone guy who wanted to hunt was the best thing that could have happened.


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## TandD (26 July 2017)

At home we have a friesian x cob or shire, can't work out which.
I'll admit he looks like 2 horses put together: huge head, chunky legs with a small friesian body and high thick neck.
Not really pretty to look at and Defo not show worthy. His head is handsome thought! Jet black with 4 knee high socks and a lovely blaze.

However do I care? Not really! He's a hack for my mum and he looks after her 100%. Yes he's got his conformational faults but he's not doing an event, he's just plodding about.

With the life he has lived pulling tourist wagons in Ireland he's as bomb proof as you could get....i doubt I could find a warmblood or smart cob as laid back as he is. For us the cross works, he's safe, reliable and such a good friend for a hack out with mum!



Edit to add he's about 20 years old so it's not a new breeding thing!


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## JJS (26 July 2017)

SEL said:



			Perhaps the thread should be a 'why the h3ll would you let that reproduce?' rather than focusing on particular types? There was a bit of run on FB a while back of mares who were out of work being passed on as 'potential broodmare'. Most of the time I couldn't see why you would want a foal out of them, but there was always interest.
		
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Maybe so, but it's this particular trend for throwing 'fashionable' breeds into the mix that seems to be particularly prevalent at the minute. I guess that what I was really wondering was whether anybody else has noticed this ploy by backyard breeders, or whether it just seemed to be happening in my own little corner of Facebook!


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## ihatework (26 July 2017)

JJS said:



			Maybe so, but it's this particular trend for throwing 'fashionable' breeds into the mix that seems to be particularly prevalent at the minute. I guess that what I was really wondering was whether anybody else has noticed this ploy by backyard breeders, or whether it just seemed to be happening in my own little corner of Facebook!
		
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I think Facebook adverts throw up many examples of poor horses, be those tb, wb, cobs, draught, native or any mongrels of the above.


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## Casey76 (26 July 2017)

I knew of a comtois x arab... poor thing had a comtois body with arab legs and head.  She always looked completely out of proportion (very over topped), especially with an arab head on a comtois neck!


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## gunnergundog (26 July 2017)

Micropony said:



			I suppose the thing with crosses is people do it hoping for the best of both, but there will always be some out there that get the worst of both. I have met a few shire x tb like that - a stereotypical wired TB brain in the body of a brick outhouse probably wasn't what the breeder was aiming for! But it can also be a very useful cross when it works.
		
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For those of a certain age, you may recall there were two successful GP dressage horses that were TB x Shire (Walter and Giddy) plus numerous heavy hunters.


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## Nudibranch (26 July 2017)

Quite honestly I am surprised on a daily basis at the rubbish which appears on FB and Preloved...not so much the badly bred beasts themselves but the prices people are asking, and the number of people who appear to be desperate to buy them (apparently unseen).


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## MotherOfChickens (26 July 2017)

I knew someone back in the 90s that was crossing Clydies with arabs. all smartened up they actually looked pretty nice but crikey, they were an erm, interesting ride and I like arabs generally just not 17.2h ones. another cross that was being deliberately bred were my two favourite breeds-I'll not say anymore as I know one owner used to frequent the forum but they were pug ugly and must have been impossible to keep the weight off with that cross.

I'm not a big fan of WBs x Iberians although I have seen some very nice ones. I am a bit of a purist-if you want something that rides like a luso, buy a luso-ditto WBs. There are plenty of breeds already that are something in the middle.


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## only_me (26 July 2017)

Is Ben hobdays horse not a Clydesdale x tb? He's an experienced 4* event horse even with those massive feet 

I hate fresians in general, can't understand why anyone wants to ride them. Lovely as carriage horses, but not under saddle. Saw a 4 Fresian horse team pulling at a funeral the other day which is really rare here.  
I do wonder what a fresian x Lippizaner (or Iberian) cross would be like, as similar movements but slightly different body. Would it produce a more rideable hose do you think?


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## Breagha (26 July 2017)

I bought a yearling (unseen) just found the markings on her interesting.  Got told she was WBxID to make 15'2.  I got in touch with her breeders in Cumbria and her mum was a 14'2 welsh x something type and her dad was a clyde x with some form of cob - so she is seriously Heinz but she was easy to back, boomproof and does well showing with her cob neck


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## alainax (26 July 2017)

Funny how we are all different, I think the baroque pintos are stunning! 












I do think there can be good and bad examples of any cross though. For example a draught crossed with something lighter that ends up with a substantial body on scrawny legs.


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## turnbuckle (26 July 2017)

I know many people swear by them, but almost all the ShirexTB (not many I admit) I have known have had a filthy temper.

Equally, I love the idea of a HighlandxTB but they seem very few and far between, which suggests it may be not be a winner....


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## JJS (26 July 2017)

alainax said:



			Funny how we are all different, I think the baroque pintos are stunning! 












I do think there can be good and bad examples of any cross though. For example a draught crossed with something lighter that ends up with a substantial body on scrawny legs.
		
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You see, these are the elusive good examples that I was talking about, the difference being that I doubt some backyard breeder threw together a Friesian stallion imported after not making the grade and a poorly conformed Gypsy Cob mare to get them. 

Also, for those saying how fantastic TB x Clyde or Shire can be, I agree. But that's an old-fashioned cross and not one that you see being advertised all over Facebook by less than savoury characters.


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## Elf On A Shelf (26 July 2017)

There was a very, very good heavyweight show cob who won a hell of a lot, he may still be going, that was a TB father and a Percheon mother. Couldn't have asked for a better put together horse.


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## HufflyPuffly (26 July 2017)

I think mostly the bad crosses are from those who take popular breeds and cross them for nothing other than to get an AxB...

Most Friesian crosses (and Friesians in general :eek3: sorry ) that I have seen, are badly put together and will never be a 'nice' ride with how they are put together. I say this as someone who owns two crosses, my defense is that they both have half Hackney in there, so it's clearly the Hackney I like :lol:.

People do not seem to be able to be objective about their own horses and don't seem to see the flaws that are practically hitting them in the face. Even if they breed to that amazing XYZ stallion the foal still has all those genetics from it's mum to contend with...

Both of mine were bred specifically to do a job, that job may have been to be a carriage horse but actually both are very nice to ride with the more bonkers put together one now out at adv med and can jump the moon. Neither are a 'novice' ride as Hackney's are renown for being very hot, so they are not for everyone! I think they both turned out ok as they were bred with work in mind, so strong legs (and feet) and a strong body were a must for them, so I assume their parents were picked for these sort of qualities.


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## Annagain (26 July 2017)

My friend has a Welsh x Warmblood. He has both the best and worst of both breeds. Stubborn, ridiculously clingy to other horses, stupidly neurotic which I put down to the Welsh (has come out of the jockey door of a trailer twice - in sheer temper) and the most impatient horse I've ever met.  He's also very handsome, a beautiful mover, incredibly intelligent and jumps like a stag which is probably a combination of the two. He's a total wimp weather wise and will shiver for hours if he even gets mildly damp which is obviously the Warmblood in him. Weight drops off him at the slightest stress and he'll stop eating at the drop of a hat (he HAS to be turned out first in winter or his world is turned upside down). He grows no winter coat but has feathers that have to be trimmed at least once a fortnight! He was out winning at BE intermediate until 2 years ago and still does open Riding Club stuff and does it bloomin' well too!


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## ester (26 July 2017)

only_me said:



			I do wonder what a fresian x Lippizaner (or Iberian) cross would be like, as similar movements but slightly different body. Would it produce a more rideable hose do you think?
		
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x iberian is called a warlander, they are pretty popular. 

I agree with alaina, often if you get all the good bits of a cross you are quids in, if you get the wrong body on the opposite legs, or the ditzy half of the brain you're not.


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## Yubbie (26 July 2017)

Turnbuckle - my ShirexTB has the most calm, laid back & good nature, I've never ever experienced any type of 'filthy temper' from him - just shows you how different horses can be!!


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## scats (26 July 2017)

I had a welsh D X TB.  The most stunning animal I've ever seen, he seriously used to turn heads.  But he had inherited the worst traits from both breeds.  He was hilarious though, such a character and actually really easy to back and bring on, but he was sharp and when that switch in his head went, there was not much that you could do.


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## MotherOfChickens (26 July 2017)

turnbuckle said:



			I know many people swear by them, but almost all the ShirexTB (not many I admit) I have known have had a filthy temper.

Equally, I love the idea of a HighlandxTB but they seem very few and far between, which suggests it may be not be a winner....
		
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I've only known a couple of Shire x TBs and they've not been easy rides-very powerful/strong and very sharp.

I don't know of any Highland TB crosses. I've known a few arab Highland crosses (one of which was nice-the others, hmm). I've also seen some very nice PRE x Highlands, there was a stud up here doing them a fair while back. Very baroque-which also means prone to being very fat!


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## Annagain (26 July 2017)

Yubbie said:



			Turnbuckle - my ShirexTB has the most calm, laid back & good nature, I've never ever experienced any type of 'filthy temper' from him - just shows you how different horses can be!!
		
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My share horse is 5/8 TB 1/4 Sec D and 1/8 Shire so the potential to be a terrible mix (conformationally he's a bit odd!) but he's the most genuine horse you'll ever meet. He's very laid back, but so honest that he'll never say no. He gives everything just enough to get the job done and not an ounce more which makes him very safe. He's not the most confident of horses but if something bothers him he just freezes, takes a little bit of time to work it out and then gets on with it. He wouldn't know what a tantrum was. If he feels a rider wobble he'll slow down and gently push his head up to pop you back in the saddle. nobody has ever fallen off him *touches wood* just fallen over with him. He really is worth his not-insignificant weight in gold.


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## Yubbie (26 July 2017)

annagain said:



			My share horse is 5/8 TB 1/4 Sec D and 1/8 Shire so the potential to be a terrible mix (conformationally he's a bit odd!) but he's the most genuine horse you'll ever meet. He's very laid back, but so honest that he'll never say no. He gives everything just enough to get the job done and not an ounce more which makes him very safe. He's not the most confident of horses but if something bothers him he just freezes, takes a little bit of time to work it out and then gets on with it. He wouldn't know what a tantrum was. If he feels a rider wobble he'll slow down and gently push his head up to pop you back in the saddle. nobody has ever fallen off him *touches wood* just fallen over with him. He really is worth his not-insignificant weight in gold.
		
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He sounds so much like my lad!! Mine also has the softest mouth, will slow & stop from subtle aids and is NEVER strong. He's just a very polite, sensible ride who'll try anything that is asked of him! I mainly do dressage with him now and despite the Shire side making him look like a tank he has lovely paces....courtesy of his TB side!!


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## Lintel (26 July 2017)

.... I'm sure I've seen a Highland X Shetland... Coudlnt imagine a worse...more stubborn... Dangerous cross EEK.
That being said its your luck really... Have seen some nice TBX cobs... And some horrendous!


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## Annagain (26 July 2017)

Yubbie said:



			He sounds so much like my lad!! Mine also has the softest mouth, will slow & stop from subtle aids and is NEVER strong. He's just a very polite, sensible ride who'll try anything that is asked of him! I mainly do dressage with him now and despite the Shire side making him look like a tank he has lovely paces....courtesy of his TB side!!
		
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We barely have to touch the reins, just a "woah" does it and we get complemented on his paces too, although I think the Sec D also helps with that. He has a very expressive, naturally elevated trot in particular. He's 21 now but was the same as a 5 year old. His owner's 10 year old has lost his nerve with his 13hh pony so rides M instead at the moment. M is 17hh!


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## Welshie95 (26 July 2017)

I have always wondered what drew the breeder to cross these two:
Dam: 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Sire:


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## Nicnac (26 July 2017)

Many, not all, of the crosses will be by and out of poor stock especially the Friesians.  Breeds like Friesians are highly controlled and pure breds lose their papers if they cross breed. 

There are some fugly crosses out there but some stunning ones as well.


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## Caol Ila (26 July 2017)

The problem with F1 crosses (the first generation of animals from a cross between two different breeds) is that you have no clue what characteristics of the parents your offspring is going to get, whereas carefully selecting individuals from the same (or similar) breed gives you some idea.  A German friend of mine said crossing Halflingers and Arabs was a thing in Germany at one point, and for every decent horse, you were getting dozens more with weird conformations who were stubborn, smart, and nuts.   

Crossing a draft horse with a light horse, for instance, is a risk.  No matter how quality the parents are, it's a risk.  You might get something with a bit more bone and a cooler head than the TB, or a bit more energetic than the draft, but still light on its feet and athletic, or you could get something more downhill than a ski slope with the draft front end and TB back end that's mad as a barn swallow on crack.  You don't know.  That's why some of us know wonderful draft crosses (I own one -- smart, sane, genuine) while others know ones they would not touch with a bargepole.  

If you breed like to like, an Arab to an Arab, warmblood to warmblood, PRE to PRE, you know you'll get a horse that looks and moves like an Arab, warmblood, or PRE.  The phenotype of your offspring is somewhat predictable (that's what makes it a breed!).  The F1 cross between wildly differing breeds is a crapshoot.


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## TheresaW (26 July 2017)

I have a Suffolk Punch cross, I believe he's part ID. (Don't know for sure). He is the type of person you either love or hate. Can be a **** bag sometimes on the ground, luckily I can read him like a book and deal with him, but ridden, I would put my 88yo Nan, or my 2yo nephew on him. He has the head and body of a Suffolk, but his legs let him down.  He's been retired for the last 3 years as he's very arthritic. Pic really don't show him as he is.


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## teddypops (26 July 2017)

Micropony said:



			I suppose the thing with crosses is people do it hoping for the best of both, but there will always be some out there that get the worst of both. I have met a few shire x tb like that - a stereotypical wired TB brain in the body of a brick outhouse probably wasn't what the breeder was aiming for! But it can also be a very useful cross when it works.
		
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I used to break in and ride lots is shire x tb crosses. I loved them! Fast and forward going but sensible. They were all very tall but not massively chunky.


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## Nudibranch (27 July 2017)

My tb x "shire" (drum, so shire with pwb) has good confo and a lovely attitude but is totally unsound at 6. Such a shame. I won't go down that route again.


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## Antw23uk (27 July 2017)

Ive a mare whose sire is a big 15.1 traditional gypsy cob and the dame is a TBxID ..(she is a two times HOYS champion though) and he is a successful showing stallion so basically Im just showing off because I have an amazing horse  







I also agree with one other who said shetland crosses are ugly and odd looking, lol


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## eatmyshorts (27 July 2017)

turnbuckle said:



			I know many people swear by them, but almost all the ShirexTB (not many I admit) I have known have had a filthy temper.

Equally, I love the idea of a HighlandxTB but they seem very few and far between, which suggests it may be not be a winner....
		
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I had a Highland x Tb mare, a nice useful little type but with a mind of her own. 

I know of a lovely cob x Lusitano. I'm just glad folk haven't started making up stupid names for them eg Cobitano!


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## pip6 (27 July 2017)

My first mare was 3/4 arab and 1/4 highland. Superb mare, do anything, go anywhere yet forward and fun. I owe everything to her. thank you Kazella.


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## Alibear (27 July 2017)

It's the naming thing that concerns me, we're not heading down the designer dogs, cockapoo , pugalier route but with horses are we? we've go Warlander, Azteca, Qarab, etc ? May well be just me.


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## Janah (27 July 2017)

My Highland x TB

Brilliant hack, would have done really well in dressage and SJ if I had been a better rider.


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## Chinchilla (27 July 2017)

SEL said:



			Perhaps the thread should be a 'why the h3ll would you let that reproduce?' rather than focusing on particular types? There was a bit of run on FB a while back of mares who were out of work being passed on as 'potential broodmare'. Most of the time I couldn't see why you would want a foal out of them, but there was always interest.

I'll throw my draft x appy mare into the mix. She was bred for meat so we'll forgive her her many shortcomings, but the only plus about breeding from her is I'd get a spotty foal - and I like spots. BUT that is the only plus, so I'm afraid she'll have to continue safely flirting with the geldings!
		
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Ha I have a mare you could get a spotty foal from too - she is a fewspot who you couldn't exactly call beautiful in the traditional sense. I can't even say she's a cross between two particular breeds, was sold her as an 'potential appaloosa sporthorse broodmare/ridden horse' but a quick google revealed that that's not an actual breed. Not that I actual gave a d*mn I think she's the most wonderful creature to ever draw breath ...

...though removing my rose tinted specs I suppose she is a bit weird to look at though: only just a horse at 15.00hh with thick wavy mane and tail, a pathetic excuse for feathers, 7 4/5" bone, massive ears, okay paces when she can be bothered, and a big arse. But such a kind face.  I do adore her. 

http://i.imgur.com/0qFoiKg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EmHSLbZ.jpg

This is why she's been nicknamed the 'mule elf'...long pointy ears.  
http://i.imgur.com/6RFDxfE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MdUOB3M.jpg


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## skint1 (27 July 2017)

When I was a girl I had occasional riding lessons, I fell madly in love with a grey mare there called Silver System, she was a Quarter Horse/Arab Cross, just beautiful she was


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## Annagain (27 July 2017)

Alibear said:



			It's the naming thing that concerns me, we're not heading down the designer dogs, cockapoo , pugalier route but with horses are we? we've go Warlander, Azteca, Qarab, etc ? May well be just me.
		
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God knows what a Shetland/Shire cross will be called


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## Cowpony (27 July 2017)

annagain said:



			God knows what a Shetland/Shire cross will be called 

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Shirty!


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## HufflyPuffly (27 July 2017)

I'd say dangerous :lol:


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## rachk89 (27 July 2017)

I think the mental horse at the last yard was a shire x tb. They tended to use a chiffney just to take him out to the field as he would rear unexpectedly at times. He would also throw his rider off a lot. But he was just a nutcase, I think possibly a fair few physical problems and possibly brain ones too. Specific breeds didn't create that behaviour. There was just times it was like a switch flicked on and he went nuts. Strange horse. 

My horse is weird, oldenburg x connie and I think shouldn't be repeated. Pony characteristics combined with the power and random spookiness of a warmblood. Fantastic idea. At least he has one hell of a character, everyone loves him. Happiest horse ever. Just a bit weird at times to ride.


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## Rollin (27 July 2017)

I have seen some very nice and useful TBxClydesdale.  The CBXTB is a superb sport horse, two Olympic SJ and one winner of Burleigh.  I always felt the ShagyaXCB would be as good as if not better.  We have bred my Shagya stallion to two CB mares and one Friesian owners are delighted with their foals - cannot post photos as there is yet another problem with photo bucket!!


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## Ceriann (27 July 2017)

alainax said:



			Funny how we are all different, I think the baroque pintos are stunning! 












I do think there can be good and bad examples of any cross though. For example a draught crossed with something lighter that ends up with a substantial body on scrawny legs.
		
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I think that's v lovely!


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## Amye (27 July 2017)

My first horse love was a Shire x TB. I rode him for years at the riding school I grew up with as a teenager.  I used to get him week on week on week as we got on so well.

He was proportioned like a shire but smaller and a bit slighter. He behaviour wasn't that bad as he was a riding school horse but he *could* be stubborn and lazy if you didn't ride him *right* so alot of people found him hard work, and he'd protest if you smacked him on the bum with a buck! But we just clicked and he was lovely, we used to bomb about the cross country field together - he was a cross country machine.


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## DabDab (27 July 2017)

JJS said:



			Maybe so, but it's this particular trend for throwing 'fashionable' breeds into the mix that seems to be particularly prevalent at the minute. I guess that what I was really wondering was whether anybody else has noticed this ploy by backyard breeders, or whether it just seemed to be happening in my own little corner of Facebook!
		
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I can see how it might increase the value of offspring from a gypsy cob or a thoroughbred, but one of the reasons I love and am endlessly fascinated by first generation crosses is that you can find some really nice horses as unbacked youngsters for next to no money because the market just isn't interested is a random cross.

Friesians are an interesting breed to cross out because they are so typey that they're usually pretty evident in the offspring.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (27 July 2017)

Mmmm..... an interesting thread this.

I went to see a lovely little mare this week, she was as sweet as honey, a real Christian little soul, fab with kids/dogs, the lot. A real darling.

Problem was the way she was put together. She was papered with the WP&CS as her Dam had excellent bloodlines; the sire was unknown.... looking at her she'd obviously been a bit of an accident, bless her. Put it this way, the head and the bum was OK, very "Welshie", but everything in between, OMFG!!  She had a very straight upright shoulder and an incredibly short back; when I rode her she had a child's size saddle (14.5") because they said that was all there was room for on her back, I wouldn't disagree with that. Under saddle, there wasn't anything at all in front of the saddle and her ears were right in your lap, very disconcerting indeed.

A real shame as she was a really nice little girl  She was 14.1 and admittedly has some growing still to do but IMO will only ever be suitable for a child. 

However I have seen some very nice Welsh crosses so possibly the Sire in this case was a bit runty.

Some native/TB crosses work well, saw a very handsome Welsh D X TB out hacking when I was miles from home the other day, have also seen a very nice Dartmoor X TB; also a good few years ago now rode a very passable Shire X TB mare over Exmoor who was steady over rough terrain and sure-footed to a fault but could go like a deer when she was asked.


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## Crugeran Celt (27 July 2017)

I bred from my mare who was out of an arab x TB to Welsh Sect D (Nebo Black Magic) and put her to a TB stallion. I have kept the foal who is now 24 having lost her mum many years ago. She is a lovely little mare and very attractive but has many health issues but as I have kept her not really been a massive issue. Having worked in an equine rescue charity it is heartbreaking how many badly bred foals, usually colts are dumped and left to die. I wish there was much more legislation on breeding and keeping entire horses.  The fashion to have a coloured cob seems to be waning but unfortunately so many coloureds have been produced and whilst breeders are trying to put their mares to solid coloured stallions the gene must be strong as inevitability the off spring is coloured. Many of these horses are changing hands for a couple of pound, they are of poor breeding and quality and probably suffer due to their poor conformation and not up to the job they are expected to do. Very sad.


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## Slightlyconfused (27 July 2017)

scats said:



			I had a welsh D X TB.  The most stunning animal I've ever seen, he seriously used to turn heads.  But he had inherited the worst traits from both breeds.  He was hilarious though, such a character and actually really easy to back and bring on, but he was sharp and when that switch in his head went, there was not much that you could do.
		
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I had one of these. 
Stunning and moved beautiful but was so sharp and a slightly nervous wreak. 
Loved her to pieces though.


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## onetomany (28 November 2020)

JJS said:



			I've just seen another of the numerous posts on sales sites that advertise a cob crossed with a Friesian, and I simply can't work out why people do it. Although I'm sure there are some lovely mixes out there who buck the trend, I've yet to see one, with most appearing to have oversized heads and oddly long, scrawny necks and bodies. Nor have I seen a single good example of cobs crossed with warmbloods, which seems to be another new fad. I honestly think that these crosses are done simply because cobs are cheap, and warmbloods and Friesians are in vogue right now, making the offspring economical to breed but more marketable when aimed at novice buyers.

Does anyone else see some of the new crosses around and wonder why, or am I the only one? There are lots of fantastic old-fashioned mixes, but the abundance of backyard breeders appear to prefer getting hold of a fashionable stallion and just letting it run with poorly conformed coloured cob mares to get youngsters with no real utility. It all seems rather sad to me, especially for all of the resultant ponies who appear doomed to conformational issues down the line because of a lack of foresight on the parts of those who've bred them.  

And no, I'm certainly not a breed purist or a Gypsy Cob hater, as these two prove, so if I've noticed it, I'm sure other people must have too!






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## onetomany (28 November 2020)

TandD said:



			At home we have a friesian x cob or shire, can't work out which.
I'll admit he looks like 2 horses put together: huge head, chunky legs with a small friesian body and high thick neck.
Not really pretty to look at and Defo not show worthy. His head is handsome thought! Jet black with 4 knee high socks and a lovely blaze.

However do I care? Not really! He's a hack for my mum and he looks after her 100%. Yes he's got his conformational faults but he's not doing an event, he's just plodding about.

With the life he has lived pulling tourist wagons in Ireland he's as bomb proof as you could get....i doubt I could find a warmblood or smart cob as laid back as he is. For us the cross works, he's safe, reliable and such a good friend for a hack out with mum!



Edit to add he's about 20 years old so it's not a new breeding thing!
		
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I think some horrid things have been said about the cross breeding. You have what you want and let others chose what they want. All animals need love. I have crossed my gypsy cob mare with a Friesian. We got a perfect foal which we will keep for life. Many cob's are getting smaller. By cross breeding the cobs should gain some size. Also Friesian pure breed horses only live for around 15 yrs. This is because of choosy breeding many years ago by us human's.. Mix breed Frisians live a normal life ,. I think if you dont like cross breed horses fine but that is up to the person than owns the animal. Not for others to point fingers and make remarks about being ugly . Why do so many horses people think they are perfect. ???


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## scruffyponies (28 November 2020)

Call me cynical, but I'm certain some of the cross-bred things you see advertised aren't anything of the sort.  Given that they aren't registered anywhere, what's to stop you saying that dobbin is an Arab x Freisian x Connie (or whatever) if you think it will add a few quid to the price?


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## ownedbyaconnie (28 November 2020)

onetomany said:



			I think some horrid things have been said about the cross breeding. You have what you want and let others chose what they want. All animals need love. I have crossed my gypsy cob mare with a Friesian. We got a perfect foal which we will keep for life. Many cob's are getting smaller. By cross breeding the cobs should gain some size. Also Friesian pure breed horses only live for around 15 yrs. This is because of choosy breeding many years ago by us human's.. Mix breed Frisians live a normal life ,. I think if you dont like cross breed horses fine but that is up to the person than owns the animal. Not for others to point fingers and make remarks about being ugly . Why do so many horses people think they are perfect. ???
		
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By the way this post is over 3 years old.

Also the OP has a cross breed, she’s not saying she doesn’t like cross breeds. She’s saying she doesn’t like the ones that are bred purely for financial gain that end up a bad mix of temperament and/or conformation.


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## ownedbyaconnie (28 November 2020)

scruffyponies said:



			Call me cynical, but I'm certain some of the cross-bred things you see advertised aren't anything of the sort.  Given that they aren't registered anywhere, what's to stop you saying that dobbin is an Arab x Freisian x Connie (or whatever) if you think it will add a few quid to the price?
		
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I know someone that now has my old loan pony stating he’s a connemara cross. He’s not, he’s a new forest cross and anyone with half a brain can see that 😂. But guess Connemaras are more fashionable!


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## scruffyponies (28 November 2020)

ownedbyaconnie said:



			I know someone that now has my old loan pony stating he’s a connemara cross. He’s not, he’s a new forest cross and anyone with half a brain can see that 😂. But guess Connemaras are more fashionable!
		
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Out riding this morning someone thought my boy (NF) was a Connie! 
I have always fancied passing him off as a PRE cross - do you think I'd get away with it?


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## shortstuff99 (28 November 2020)

scruffyponies said:



			Out riding this morning someone thought my boy (NF) was a Connie! 
I have always fancied passing him off as a PRE cross - do you think I'd get away with it?
		
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Yes probably as many dealers are passing off imported part breds as pure PREs at the moment.....🤣


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## exracehorse (28 November 2020)

I have a Trotter x Cob.  Fabulous all rounder. And a Standardbred x Welsh.


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## shortstuff99 (28 November 2020)

I know someone that has a trotter x friesian and is an awesome little horse.


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## Gloi (28 November 2020)

I kept my ponies at a stud which had tb stallions. They covered many shires including their own and bred some cracking showjumpers, hunters and police horses from that cross


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## thefarsideofthefield (29 November 2020)

Thought this was going to be a thread started by a dissatisfied vampire slayer ….


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## paddi22 (29 November 2020)

I've the flip side of it where I have a rescue 2 year old that has a crazy skeletal jaw issues which is mainly believed to be caused by mating two horses with totally different jaw structures.. he has a crazy big top jaw and a tiny lower jaw


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