# Stanley's hock fusion journey



## kinnygirl1 (27 October 2016)

So yesterday Stanley had the hock fusion,or arthrodesis,  using ethanol. I was able to take him home a couple of hours after the procedure. He had a sachet of Bute in his tea and then he could be turned out as normal..which surprised me as I thought there may be some box rest. Left him comfortable munching hay in the field shelter. This morning I've been up to give him another Bute and he seems really comfortable. He practically sprang all the way back to the field. My instructions from the vet are 4 days off work but turned out and then commence rehab on Monday with 20 mins walk, 15 mins trot....so quite an intense return to work but apparently the work is what causes the fusion to take place....the ethanol just "sets the scene" as it were. I'll keep you posted (if you're interested lol)


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## PorkChop (27 October 2016)

Yes, interested!

Thanks for posting, sounds positive


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## Hannahgb (27 October 2016)

Very interested! Fingers crossed he continues to do well!


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## SullivanB (30 October 2016)

hope he continues to do well, would love to continue to hear more


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## applecart14 (31 October 2016)

kinnygirl1 said:



			and then he could be turned out as normal..which surprised me as I thought there may be some box rest. Left him comfortable munching hay in the field shelter.
		
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Yes as I said to you in my previous reply before that they can go straight away as no steroid is involved in the procedure.  Glad you have had it done and sure it will work well as it did in my horses case.

Thanks for the update, best wishes x


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## kinnygirl1 (31 October 2016)

Quick update.... Stanley and I have been for our first rehab hack today. 20 mins of walk with a smidge  of trot on the way home. He was great and felt forward and relaxed. I am going to build the trot part up to 15 mins over the next few days as instructed by my vet.  Feeling quite positive today now that I've been back on him and he seemed chill. &#55357;&#56832;


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## spike123 (31 October 2016)

that's great to hear. I'm reading with interest as one of mine looks to possibly have arthritis of his hocks and this is something I have no experience of at all so it's good to hear how your horse is doing.


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## Equi (31 October 2016)

I would be incredibly interested to know what symptoms made you look into this? I'm going to the vet tomorrow cause my horse is just not 100% but not lame in any way..just not 100%. In my head i have loads of stuff flying round, and have his grave site picked. If it turned out to be hock arthritis, i know this could be a saving treatment for him - but i struggle to find many symptoms apart from just being stiff in the hock (which he is not really but could use them more)


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## kinnygirl1 (31 October 2016)

equi said:



			I would be incredibly interested to know what symptoms made you look into this? I'm going to the vet tomorrow cause my horse is just not 100% but not lame in any way..just not 100%. In my head i have loads of stuff flying round, and have his grave site picked. If it turned out to be hock arthritis, i know this could be a saving treatment for him - but i struggle to find many symptoms apart from just being stiff in the hock (which he is not really but could use them more)
		
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Hi, well with Stanley it was an unlevelness when viewed from behind that worried me initially. He has been treated for sacroliliac soreness previously and I though that's what was causing the unlevelness but when my vet watched hi m move she felt it was coming from lower down. He was lame on flex ion on both legs. She suspected arthritic changes and xray confirmed this. He was treated with steroid injections firstly but sadly they didn't last very long for him hence moving forward with the fusion. Thinking back I had also noticed that he had lost power from behind if that makes sense.... He used to be able to do a nice medium trot but his ability to do that had diminished significantly. Hope this helps.


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## kinnygirl1 (31 October 2016)

spike123 said:



			that's great to hear. I'm reading with interest as one of mine looks to possibly have arthritis of his hocks and this is something I have no experience of at all so it's good to hear how your horse is doing.
		
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Hi... It's something I know nothing about too... That's why I thought if I made this thread it might be useful for someone who finds themselves dealing with this in the future. Really hope you find it useful. X


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## Equi (31 October 2016)

kinnygirl1 said:



			Hi, well with Stanley it was an unlevelness when viewed from behind that worried me initially. He has been treated for sacroliliac soreness previously and I though that's what was causing the unlevelness but when my vet watched hi m move she felt it was coming from lower down. He was lame on flex ion on both legs. She suspected arthritic changes and xray confirmed this. He was treated with steroid injections firstly but sadly they didn't last very long for him hence moving forward with the fusion. Thinking back I had also noticed that he had lost power from behind if that makes sense.... He used to be able to do a nice medium trot but his ability to do that had diminished significantly. Hope this helps.
		
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Thanks. I think my horse is even behind, but not in a good way as in he is weak behind on both sides lol but he is definitely a "left" hand horse. Hes always been pretty weak, but i think that comes from the fact he was hunted and just bombed around, he has noticable hunters bump - and had a very u shaped neck when i got him along with being skin and bone so NO muscle. I was only riding him once or twice a week as part loan, so he was not getting the correct work at the time to build him up Hes never had to work properly.. Hes come on a lot since i have owned him, but still very tight behind. A year later he looks like a different horse, but he still has a weak hind. Physio won't touch him without the vet looking first.


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## kinnygirl1 (31 October 2016)

equi said:



			Thanks. I think my horse is even behind, but not in a good way as in he is weak behind on both sides lol but he is definitely a "left" hand horse. Hes always been pretty weak, but i think that comes from the fact he was hunted and just bombed around, he has noticable hunters bump - and had a very u shaped neck when i got him along with being skin and bone so NO muscle. I was only riding him once or twice a week as part loan, so he was not getting the correct work at the time to build him up Hes never had to work properly.. Hes come on a lot since i have owned him, but still very tight behind. A year later he looks like a different horse, but he still has a weak hind. Physio won't touch him without the vet looking first.
		
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Bless him.... It's good your physio wants the vet to look first as it could be one of so many things. A good vet can pick up subtle unevenness and my vet could tell where it was coming from more or less by looking which was good as we went straight to xray and nerve block the hock to confirm rather than going through the whole lameness work up from the foot up. In Stanley's case the lameness was bilateral although one was worse than the other so at times he could look level purely because he was lame on both! If it does turn out to be arthritis there are lots of treatment options so don't lose heart. Good luck and let me know what happens.


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## Equi (31 October 2016)

kinnygirl1 said:



			Bless him.... It's good your physio wants the vet to look first as it could be one of so many things. A good vet can pick up subtle unevenness and my vet could tell where it was coming from more or less by looking which was good as we went straight to xray and nerve block the hock to confirm rather than going through the whole lameness work up from the foot up. In Stanley's case the lameness was bilateral although one was worse than the other so at times he could look level purely because he was lame on both! If it does turn out to be arthritis there are lots of treatment options so don't lose heart. Good luck and let me know what happens.
		
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I will. Im terrified but at the same time optimistic, i don't think he is done yet - he just needs a tweek.


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## kinnygirl1 (8 November 2016)

Not too much to report at this stage - week 2 of rehab has begun and the bute has finished. This week we are walking for 25 mins and trotting for 20!   This is pretty much what I would do on a normal basis anyway, except for rehab I have to do as much as this as possible in straight lines(hacking) whereas when he's well I would pop in the arena a couple of times a week.  Weather has been a little inclement so hacks have been freezing cold but managed to stick to it so far. Stanley seems happy to be out and about...ears pricked and a keen bean on the trotting parts so I am hoping that means he isn't too stiff or sore.  Will update again soon.


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## PorkChop (8 November 2016)

Do keep going with the updates 

Glad to hear all is going well, keep up the good work Stanley


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## kinnygirl1 (10 November 2016)

Slight setback....2 days ago noticed that one of Stanley's hind legs was swelling from the hock downwards. Was quite thick but not warm and Stanley appeared to be walking around ok on it. Rang my vet who turned out to be on leave but a vet from the practice called me, said it didn't sound like too much to worry about and told me to carry on as normal. Next day it was no better but no worse....vet said leave it one more day. So today when it was still the same I asked the vet to come out and take a look...... Turns out it's a little buildup of fluid and fibrous tissue, possibly been caused by some of the alcohol from the fusion trickling down from the injection site. I have been told not to worry, carry on as previously instructed and have been prescribed some potassium iodide to help break down the fibrous tissue. Very relieved! The best news though is that I trotted him up for the vet and he is only 1/10th lame... Which is the least lame he has been since original arthritis diagnosis!


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## spike123 (10 November 2016)

Sorry he's had a slight setback but good that it doesn't sound too major. Still reading this with interest. Vet came out to mine earlier this week for a lameness work up and he's lame on a circle on his near fore and a little short in his right hind but totally sound on a straight line. Vet thinks arthritis of coffin joint and just stiffness behind so he's going to have some adjustments made to his shoeing before we go down the medicating joints route.


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## kinnygirl1 (10 November 2016)

spike123 said:



			Sorry he's had a slight setback but good that it doesn't sound too major. Still reading this with interest. Vet came out to mine earlier this week for a lameness work up and he's lame on a circle on his near fore and a little short in his right hind but totally sound on a straight line. Vet thinks arthritis of coffin joint and just stiffness behind so he's going to have some adjustments made to his shoeing before we go down the medicating joints route.
		
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Thank you... Hope yours gets better with the shoeing too. Let us know.


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## spike123 (10 November 2016)

will do. Finding it quite hard to come to terms with at the moment as had him for 8yrs and brought him on myself and been through alot together.


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## kinnygirl1 (10 November 2016)

spike123 said:



			will do. Finding it quite hard to come to terms with at the moment as had him for 8yrs and brought him on myself and been through alot together.
		
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So sorry....I feel the same. Owned Stanley for 6 years almost and he is my "special one". But I'm starting to see that with good management and timely treatment there is light at the end of the tunnel. Xx


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## LovesCobs (11 November 2016)

Can I ask how much the fusion was? My daughters pony has had the injection which is still working (alongside riaflex) for 12 months now but I'd look at this in the future, she's obviously now not insured for it


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## kinnygirl1 (11 November 2016)

LovesCobs said:



			Can I ask how much the fusion was? My daughters pony has had the injection which is still working (alongside riaflex) for 12 months now but I'd look at this in the future, she's obviously now not insured for it
		
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yes....it was around 520 for the procedure.... There were some additional costs added on...overnight livery, sedation etc.


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## Equi (11 November 2016)

Glad this came back up cause i could not find it. OP thanks for all your helpful words - turns out we dont have ANY sort of arthritis thankfully - we do however have another issue that could have never been diagnosed without xrays, which means his way of going will never change and i just have to accept it and work with it, but we have been cleared to work as normal but avoid certain movements as much as possible. I wish you all the best with yours.


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## kinnygirl1 (12 November 2016)

equi said:



			Glad this came back up cause i could not find it. OP thanks for all your helpful words - turns out we dont have ANY sort of arthritis thankfully - we do however have another issue that could have never been diagnosed without xrays, which means his way of going will never change and i just have to accept it and work with it, but we have been cleared to work as normal but avoid certain movements as much as possible. I wish you all the best with yours.
		
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n

Great news re the arthritis and it's good that you found out what the issue is. Thanks for your kind words too.


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## PorkChop (12 November 2016)

How is Stanley today?


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## kinnygirl1 (12 November 2016)

LJR said:



			How is Stanley today? 

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He's loads better thankfully... The swelling has all but gone.. Had a gentle walking hack and a little trot round the edge of the arena and he felt very forward so I'm hoping we are back on track to carry on with the rehab. X


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## PorkChop (12 November 2016)

kinnygirl1 said:



			He's loads better thankfully... The swelling has all but gone.. Had a gentle walking hack and a little trot round the edge of the arena and he felt very forward so I'm hoping we are back on track to carry on with the rehab. X
		
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Fab


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## applecart14 (13 November 2016)

LovesCobs said:



			Can I ask how much the fusion was? My daughters pony has had the injection which is still working (alongside riaflex) for 12 months now but I'd look at this in the future, she's obviously now not insured for it
		
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it was just over three hundred for my horse in about 2012. The actual injection was about two or three pounds as all it is is pure alcohol. the cost comes from the contrast dye insertion, xray imaging, interpretation and technique, experience and of course sedation. my horse was in and out in under 1.5 hrs.  if anyone wants to know more about this technique just type'ethanol fusion' into the search bar on this forum. there is tonnes of info on the subject some of which dates way back four years ago to my own experience and some of which dates back more recently to the lesser known complication some three to four years post fusion which can effect around 4-6% of horses of which mine was one although swiftly treated and dealt with. lots of people have had thic procedure carried out and it has been very affective for the majority that i have heard about.


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## LovesCobs (13 November 2016)

Brilliant thank you both


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## kinnygirl1 (21 November 2016)

So week 3 was 20 mins walk, 25 mins trot and 2 mins canter. We were a little bit behind schedule due to a couple of days off in week 2 with the mysterious leg swelling. That has gone down significantly now as the vet predicted although still very slightly more filled than the other hind leg. He seems unbothered by it but I am keeping a close eye on it. Sooo, we were quite unfit and found all the trot this week quite hard work, especially as the pants weather meant that there weren't that many places dry enough to do it and therefore not much variety in our rides but we soldiered on and did a lot of it around the edge of the arena. The canter went very smoothly...just let him break into it on straight bits of our hacks and let him come gently back downto trot  after a few strides. Probably more like 30 seconds per ride than 2 minutes but I will build it up this week. He feels nice and loose when I ride him....have only had a very slight feeling of stiffness on the left rein when trotting around the corners of the arena...again I will monitor this closely. Left was the worst leg in terms of arthritic changes on the original X-Ray's so not sure what that means in terms of fusion....should it fuse faster or slower than the other? Also it was the left leg that swelled so this could be contributing to the slight stiffness. Will update again in week 4.... Hope I'm not boring you all to tears!


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## PorkChop (22 November 2016)

This all sounds good, will they x-ray again or do you just crack on as long as he feels good?


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## kinnygirl1 (22 November 2016)

LJR said:



			This all sounds good, will they x-ray again or do you just crack on as long as he feels good? 

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I'm not sure to be honest.  I think it may depend on the degree of lameness that remains. he has a vet check at the end of week 5 so I will ask then.


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## kinnygirl1 (30 November 2016)

Well week 4 has come and gone.. it has been frustrating with rubbish weather making a lot of my hacking routes too wet for trot or canter but managed to do a bit of that in the arena... it is a lot of work, 20 mins walk, 30 mins trot and 5 mins canter so nearly an hour of riding which I have found hard with the days shortening, work and child to look after and tbh I am feeling a little despondent.  I'm pretty sure he is not yet sound as I think I can feel unlevel steps from time to time particularly on the left rein. Vet is out for the 5 week check tomorrow afternoon so will discuss this with her. He was however, feeling spritely enough to attempt bucking me off and going for an unscheduled canter yesterday when some sheep we were hacking past were spooked by a gas gun... so there's life in him yet!


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## PorkChop (30 November 2016)

Hope the Vet is pleased with him tomorrow.

If he is coping well with that amount of work I think it is really positive


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## kinnygirl1 (30 November 2016)

LJR said:



			Hope the Vet is pleased with him tomorrow.

If he is coping well with that amount of work I think it is really positive 

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thank you - I'm so nervous for the vet coming.. getting a bit paranoid and kind of worried that yesterdays bucking was pain related... although it did coincide with the sheep going mental so fairly sure it was that.  I will update tomorrow whatever happens!


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## SEL (30 November 2016)

Thanks for posting & keeping us updated - I think I'm going to be heading down this route next year :-(


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## PorkChop (30 November 2016)

kinnygirl1 said:



			thank you - I'm so nervous for the vet coming.. getting a bit paranoid and kind of worried that yesterdays bucking was pain related... although it did coincide with the sheep going mental so fairly sure it was that.  I will update tomorrow whatever happens!
		
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Please do!

Take it as a sign he was feeling well


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## kinnygirl1 (1 December 2016)

Ok...so the week 5 vet visit was today! It's mostly good news. He's no longer lame when trotted up and is level when viewed from behind, although he's not bringing the left hock(which was the worst affected one)  through as well as the right. This will hopefully improve as the fusion is completed. I'm to continue with the same level of work as we are at now for the next 3 weeks, mostly hacking but can add in some circles gradually to schooling sessions maybe a couple of times a week. The hacking is important as a firmer surface gives greater concussion and aids fusion which you don't get on a soft arena surface. Next check up is middle of Jan.


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## PorkChop (1 December 2016)

Sounds good to me, how are you feeling about it?  I know you were struggling to fit everything in, not the greatest times of year for a bit of rehab!


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## kinnygirl1 (1 December 2016)

Demented Elf said:



			Sounds good to me, how are you feeling about it?  I know you were struggling to fit everything in, not the greatest times of year for a bit of rehab!
		
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I'm ok thanks. I mentioned to my vet that I was finding it hard to fit in an hour of riding every evening and she said to focus on the trot if I'm struggling for time and that even a 20 min walk round the block is better than nothing at all. Also, it helps that Stanley lives out 24/7 as he is in theory moving all the time...movement s the key to fusion apparently, so I do feel better about it.... Still gonna try and do as much of the hour as poss tho. X


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## kinnygirl1 (7 December 2016)

Sooo, we have a makeshift arena at the farm which is basically natural sand spread on a well draining field... the cold snap had made it nice and firm and therefore the perfect surface for Stanley's trot rehab.  We did a good 30 mins trot on it the other day and I feel sure that once the initial stiffness was out of the way that Stanley was finding turning to the left a little easier.... I am hoping this means that fusion is getting there in that troublesome left hind! Watch this space!


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## PorkChop (7 December 2016)

Keep it up 

Hope you are both rewarded for the rehab!


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## Dancing_Diva (7 December 2016)

Interesting to come across this topic, my boy has recently been diagnosed with hock arthritis, we medicated and have started some rehab work, altho just had a slight set back unfortunately!


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## kinnygirl1 (7 December 2016)

Dancing_Diva said:



			Interesting to come across this topic, my boy has recently been diagnosed with hock arthritis, we medicated and have started some rehab work, altho just had a slight set back unfortunately!
		
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Sorry to hear you've had a set back. Medicating the joint worked very well for Stan but sadly didn't last as long as we hoped which is why we decided to go down the fusion route but my vet did say in some horses medicating is all that's ever needed so it's definitely worth a try.


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## Dancing_Diva (7 December 2016)

Roughly how long did medicating them last for if you don't mind me asking?


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## kinnygirl1 (7 December 2016)

Dancing_Diva said:



			Roughly how long did medicating them last for if you don't mind me asking?
		
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Well, medicated them at the end of June... At a check up mid August he was sound but sadly by mid October he was lame again and had the fusion at the end of October. So roughly 4 months.


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## Dancing_Diva (7 December 2016)

That's not long at all. We medicated three weeks ago, his been sound since until last Wednesday when he went lame, his now 99% sound again after a vet visit yesterday. 

Was it expensive to have the fusing done? We're about £1500 into our £5000 insurance limit and so have to factor in that really.


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## kinnygirl1 (7 December 2016)

Dancing_Diva said:



			That's not long at all. We medicated three weeks ago, his been sound since until last Wednesday when he went lame, his now 99% sound again after a vet visit yesterday. 

Was it expensive to have the fusing done? We're about £1500 into our £5000 insurance limit and so have to factor in that really.
		
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It was around 520 for the actual procedure. There were a few additional costs...sedation, livery as he stayed overnight, Bute to come home with. I have also got an insurance claim running for this... And I think it's now up to £1800.


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## Dancing_Diva (7 December 2016)

That's no time bad at all, what did the procuder actually entail? Was it done under full GA or sedation? 

Apologies for all the questions, your the only person I've found to have dealt with the same thing as I currently. It's always nicer to get answers from someone who's actually been through the same thing with a horse of their own own and not just a vet.


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## kinnygirl1 (7 December 2016)

Dancing_Diva said:



			That's no time bad at all, what did the procuder actually entail? Was it done under full GA or sedation? 

Apologies for all the v, your the only person I've found to have dealt with the same thing as I currently. It's always nicer to get answers from someone who's actually been through the same thing with a horse of their own own and not just a vet.
		
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No probs at all.. I made this thread so that people could find out more about it. Happy to answer questions.  It is done under sedation in the stocks. First they inject a contrast dye into the space in the joint and take an X-ray. This is to make sure that there is no communication between the top and bottom hock joints. If the dye can get into the top joint then the horse is not eligible for the procedure as the alcohol would destroy this joint. Assuming all ok they then inject the alcohol into the joint, remove the needle and cover the wound with a dressing and vet wrap. My vet said its not a difficult procedure but it's fiddly and takes a few people.


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## spike123 (8 December 2016)

glad to hear your rehab is going really well Kinnygirl. My boy has the vet back again tomorrow as has remained lame despite the changes in shoeing and pads put on. He's having nerve blocks as the vet suspects that he has navicular and arthritis but wants to be certain that the lameness is in the foot before xraying. Vet will come back to xray if it's confirmed in the foot.


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## kinnygirl1 (8 December 2016)

spike123 said:



			glad to hear your rehab is going really well Kinnygirl. My boy has the vet back again tomorrow as has remained lame despite the changes in shoeing and pads put on. He's having nerve blocks as the vet suspects that he has navicular and arthritis but wants to be certain that the lameness is in the foot before xraying. Vet will come back to xray if it's confirmed in the foot.
		
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Thank you. Good luck with your boy tomorrow. I don't know much about navicular but I am finding that there are lots of treatment options for the arthritis so hopefully with the right combination of treatment he will come right.


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## SEL (8 December 2016)

Thanks for this thread. We're on week 2 of cartrophen & no change yet (& yes I am hoping for a miracle cure!), so will be asking vet about fusion soon.


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## spike123 (9 December 2016)

typically today my horse was not showing lame enough consistently enough to have nerve blocks done but he had flexion tests done which he passed so vet is certain that it likely rules arthritis out but he did produce a positive splint test and vet is fairly sure he has damaged the ligament attached to the splint bones which explains his on off lameness and dislike of hard ground. He is now on 8 weeks of restricted turnout so he can not play with other horses and is to be in walk work for 8 weeks and then be reviewed unless he becomes lamer in the meantime in which case we will proceed with the nerve blocks.


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## kinnygirl1 (9 December 2016)

spike123 said:



			typically today my horse was not showing lame enough consistently enough to have nerve blocks done but he had flexion tests done which he passed so vet is certain that it likely rules arthritis out but he did produce a positive splint test and vet is fairly sure he has damaged the ligament attached to the splint bones which explains his on off lameness and dislike of hard ground. He is now on 8 weeks of restricted turnout so he can not play with other horses and is to be in walk work for 8 weeks and then be reviewed unless he becomes lamer in the meantime in which case we will proceed with the nerve blocks.
		
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Oh gosh...he's really keeping you guessing isn't it! Stanley was very lame on flexion when diagnosed with arthritis so does sound like you might be able to rule it out. Let us know what happens.


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## spike123 (9 December 2016)

I'm going to be old and grey with all the stress he's caused me lol. I will update you. How's your boy seeming to be now?


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## kinnygirl1 (15 December 2016)

spike123 said:



			I'm going to be old and grey with all the stress he's caused me lol. I will update you. How's your boy seeming to be now?
		
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He's ok. Somedays he feels amazing, others its a bit stilted. My vet did say that when the bones are very close to fusion, the horse can be a bit sore. Her advice was to gently push through the soreness with ridden work and she has given me some bute to use if he seems really uncomfortable but she says this should be very short term and that once fusion has completed he will be comfortable again.  Just wish I could see what was going on in there!


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## spike123 (15 December 2016)

Fingers still crossed he's going the right direction for you. What sort of time scale will you expect it to take for the hocks to fuse? Would be even better if our horses could talk and explain exactly what and were it hurts lol. Mine has remained sound and worked about 4 days in this week but have kept him entirely to soft ground other than from the stable to the field but it seems he's comfortable so far, but we are only one week in of 8 weeks of walk work so far. Just hoping he doesn't think it's a good idea to try to kill me once boredom of walk work and no racing around playing with his friends has kicked in.


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## kinnygirl1 (16 December 2016)

spike123 said:



			Fingers still crossed he's going the right direction for you. What sort of time scale will you expect it to take for the hocks to fuse? Would be even better if our horses could talk and explain exactly what and were it hurts lol. Mine has remained sound and worked about 4 days in this week but have kept him entirely to soft ground other than from the stable to the field but it seems he's comfortable so far, but we are only one week in of 8 weeks of walk work so far. Just hoping he doesn't think it's a good idea to try to kill me once boredom of walk work and no racing around playing with his friends has kicked in.
		
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I think its one of those how long is a piece of string type questions really.... a lot depends on being able to do the rehab work on firm ground to allow the hocks the necessary concussion to fuse... hard at this time of year when a lot of the tracks I use for hacking are a bit soft and water logged.  He has been extremely edgy the last few rides which I'm wondering is soreness possibly being caused by the hock being close to fusion.... gosh yes if only he could tell me!


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## kinnygirl1 (16 December 2016)

Well, we have definitely hit a wall. He is really edgy and spooky and I'm struggling with the rehab. Had instructor over last night and it took a good 15 mins to settle him in a nice walk and then I attempted a hack this afternoon but he was so tense and jumpy I cut it short. Gonna phone my vet Monday... I am kinda hoping that it's the pre fusion soreness she warned me about, not that I want him to be in pain of course but if it is that then some short term pain relief may be all it takes. Feeling a bit down tbh :-( I'm not the most confident of riders so it's hard to crack on with the rehab plan when he feels like he could explode at any moment!


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## spike123 (17 December 2016)

oh no so sorry you've hit a wall. I have to say i seriously doubt mine will manage 8 weeks of walk work without trying to kill me too. Once he gets a bit fresh he becomes extremely spooky and downright dangerous at times. I hope your vet can give you some answers and pain relief helps


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## kinnygirl1 (17 December 2016)

spike123 said:



			oh no so sorry you've hit a wall. I have to say i seriously doubt mine will manage 8 weeks of walk work without trying to kill me too. Once he gets a bit fresh he becomes extremely spooky and downright dangerous at times. I hope your vet can give you some answers and pain relief helps
		
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Thank you... Feeling a bit down about it tbh.... Gave both of us a break from the stress and just did some work in hand today but will see what vet says on Monday if I can get hold of her.


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## applecart14 (19 December 2016)

SEL said:



			Thanks for this thread. We're on week 2 of cartrophen & no change yet (& yes I am hoping for a miracle cure!), so will be asking vet about fusion soon.
		
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If catrophen is anything like Tildren it can take a few weeks to work.  From memory (going back a few years now) I didn't notice any improvement in my horse for a good three or four weeks.  I decided on ethanol fusion in the end as the three Tildren infusions he had, had not worked very well.


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## kinnygirl1 (20 December 2016)

Bit of a pity post but things are not well with Stanley. Routine visit from physio yesterday ....his back was so tight and sore. He usually loves his physio but yesterday he was really edgy. Physio thinks referred pain from the hock as she thinks he is hiking the worst affected hind leg higher when trotting. She is very kindly going to get in touch with my vet today as they have always worked together on Stanley and pass on her findings. I'm so sad....I went for this treatment to help him but seems like I've made things worse as now he has back pain he's never had before. Is there light at the end of this tunnel? I don't know. Really hope that one day I'll look back at this thread and think "yeah things were rough for a while but they got better! " I'll keep you posted.


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## spike123 (20 December 2016)

kinnygirl1 said:



			Bit of a pity post but things are not well with Stanley. Routine visit from physio yesterday ....his back was so tight and sore. He usually loves his physio but yesterday he was really edgy. Physio thinks referred pain from the hock as she thinks he is hiking the worst affected hind leg higher when trotting. She is very kindly going to get in touch with my vet today as they have always worked together on Stanley and pass on her findings. I'm so sad....I went for this treatment to help him but seems like I've made things worse as now he has back pain he's never had before. Is there light at the end of this tunnel? I don't know. Really hope that one day I'll look back at this thread and think "yeah things were rough for a while but they got better! " I'll keep you posted.
		
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I'm so sorry things aren't going too great for Stanley just now. I hope it's no more than a minor issue and things will improve for you both soon. Please keep us posted.


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## kinnygirl1 (29 December 2016)

Taken it very steady with Stanley over the festive period....both because he was sore and edgy just before christmas and because StormBarbara made riding an already edgy horse neArly impossible. With the thought that Stanley may be a little sore advise from vet was to use a little Bute but try and gently push on with the rehab. Apparently some horses do get sore when the hock is close to fusion but doing the work is critical for fusion to work. So, we have done a little hacking with his best friend, a little hand walking, some ground work and today we long lined! Not done that for ages but he seemed to really enjoy it...no tension or spook news and he seemed very focused. Going to try and gently increase the work over the next week. Vet coming out new year so will post again then.  Thanks for reading.


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## PorkChop (29 December 2016)

Keep it up, its still sounding positive, and fingers crossed that the Vet is happy when they come and see him


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## spike123 (29 December 2016)

Glad you're getting him working still and here's hoping that the new year brings about good news of a fusion taking place. Fingers remain firmly crossed for you here.


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## applecart14 (3 January 2017)

I am sorry to butt in again, but I was told by my vet that it can take around 9-12 months to fuse a hock following ethanol and in some cases up to 18 months.  So I am surprised that you think his hocks would be fused in such a short space of time - you are not even on month three yet are you?

From all I have read and heard and experienced myself the usual thing whilst joints are fusing is to give low level bute, a sensible monitored workload and remedial farriery if the horses foot placement alters during the process of fusing.

My horse was xrayed at 12 months, one hock had fused the other was almost fused.  I didn't get any soreness with him close to fusion.  Right from day one he was better.

The only soreness I did get was the complication 3-4 years post fusion when 5-8% of horses that have the procedure can suffer a set back.  Again this wasn't long term, remedial shoeing and temporary pain relief sorted the problem out.

Hope you get some answers soon x


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## kinnygirl1 (3 January 2017)

applecart14 said:



			I am sorry to butt in again, but I was told by my vet that it can take around 9-12 months to fuse a hock following ethanol and in some cases up to 18 months.  So I am surprised that you think his hocks would be fused in such a short space of time - you are not even on month three yet are you?

From all I have read and heard and experienced myself the usual thing whilst joints are fusing is to give low level bute, a sensible monitored workload and remedial farriery if the horses foot placement alters during the process of fusing.n

My horse was xrayed at 12 months, one hock had fused the other was almost fused.  I didn't get any soreness with him close to fusion.  Right from day one he was better.

The only soreness I did get was the complication 3-4 years post fusion when 5-8% of horses that have the procedure can suffer a set back.  Again this wasn't long term, remedial shoeing and temporary pain relief sorted the problem out.

Hope you get some answers soon x
		
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My vet didn't really give me a timescale...I got the impression it could vary from horse to horse and depend on the level of fusion you began with. Stanley's left hock was already partially fused, his right had already begun to fuse I am sticking to the rehab plan my vet gave me which is up to  20 mins walk 30 mins trot and 10 mins canter daily. He is barefoot so doesn't need remedial farriery. I wasn't told that he would need Bute for the whole of the rehab plan, just that he might get sore as he got closer to fusion and could have some Bute in that instance. 
I'm certainly not an expert on this and really just following what the vet has told me, always trying to do the best for my beautiful boy.....do you think I'm doing something wrong?


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## applecart14 (3 January 2017)

kinnygirl1 said:



			My vet didn't really give me a timescale...I got the impression it could vary from horse to horse and depend on the level of fusion you began with. Stanley's left hock was already partially fused, his right had already begun to fuse I am sticking to the rehab plan my vet gave me which is up to  20 mins walk 30 mins trot and 10 mins canter daily. He is barefoot so doesn't need remedial farriery. I wasn't told that he would need Bute for the whole of the rehab plan, just that he might get sore as he got closer to fusion and could have some Bute in that instance. 
I'm certainly not an expert on this and really just following what the vet has told me, always trying to do the best for my beautiful boy.....do you think I'm doing something wrong?
		
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Hi hun. Oh gosh no i wasnt suggesting you are doing anything wrong. I just think you are being a little optimistic with your timescales thats all. Whilst theres nothing wrong with that you dont want to end up dissapointed if it doesnt happen as quickly as you had hoped for. It worked great for my horse even though we had the four year post procedure problem. i would do it again in a heartbeat. just dont get too carried away with time to fuse. it will happen in time i am sure. i was told by my vet that fusion rates vary hugely from horse to horse. I was amazed how much work i was expected to do with my horse after the fusion. i think he was doing more after the injections than he was before!


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## kinnygirl1 (3 January 2017)

applecart14 said:



			Hi hun. Oh gosh no i wasnt suggesting you are doing anything wrong. I just think you are being a little optimistic with your timescales thats all. Whilst theres nothing wrong with that you dont want to end up dissapointed if it doesnt happen as quickly as you had hoped for. It worked great for my horse even though we had the four year post procedure problem. i would do it again in a heartbeat. just dont get too carried away with time to fuse. it will happen in time i am sure. i was told by my vet that fusion rates vary hugely from horse to horse. I was amazed how much work i was expected to do with my horse after the fusion. i think he was doing more after the injections than he was before!
		
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Ah ok.... Not dissapointed... We have been thru so much in the last few years anything I get is a bonus! I just want to manage his pain the best I can. Yes the rehab is hard work...he's just a happy hacker normally so having to do a lot more fast work than I would usually which is hard esp with the short daylight hours, crap weather, child and job lol. Just gotta keep plodding on I guess.


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## applecart14 (4 January 2017)

You will get there. Good luck, keep us all posted


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## taraj (4 January 2017)

Its really interesting hearing other peoples stories regarding hock fusion, my lad has been diagnosed with hock arthritis (posted here somewhere!)and had steroid injections but his hock has started to fuse naturally where as I believe both of the above have had a op/injection to help with the fusing? Vet has said to work mine as it will help the fusion complete so I sympathise with the hard work you are going through, although i am only on week 4 of walking its a bit chilly/boring!
Vets believe my lads was probably caused by him twisting it as only one hock is affected, maybe this is why it is fusing it self?
Applcart is your horse back in full work now? how long has it taken?
 Keep up with the updates, hope it continues to go well.


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## kinnygirl1 (4 January 2017)

taraj said:



			Its really interesting hearing other peoples stories regarding hock fusion, my lad has been diagnosed with hock arthritis (posted here somewhere!)and had steroid injections but his hock has started to fuse naturally where as I believe both of the above have had a op/injection to help with the fusing? Vet has said to work mine as it will help the fusion complete so I sympathise with the hard work you are going through, although i am only on week 4 of walking its a bit chilly/boring!
Vets believe my lads was probably caused by him twisting it as only one hock is affected, maybe this is why it is fusing it self?
Applcart is your horse back in full work now? how long has it taken?
 Keep up with the updates, hope it continues to go well.
		
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Hi... My horses hocks were partially fused on first xray, and were further on with fusing on his second one 4 months later following steroid treatment. This was prior to having them fused with alcohol which is supposed to accelerate the process.


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## taraj (4 January 2017)

kinnygirl1 said:



			Hi... My horses hocks were partially fused on first xray, and were further on with fusing on his second one 4 months later following steroid treatment. This was prior to having them fused with alcohol which is supposed to accelerate the process.
		
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That's interesting thanks, I suppose time will tell with my horse as to weather they fuse completely by themselves. My lad was never lame with his hock, just unwilling to go forwards as much as he used to so its not easy knowing if the steroids have made a difference until I up his work a bit.


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## Dancing_Diva (5 January 2017)

taraj said:



			That's interesting thanks, I suppose time will tell with my horse as to weather they fuse completely by themselves. My lad was never lame with his hock, just unwilling to go forwards as much as he used to so its not easy knowing if the steroids have made a difference until I up his work a bit.
		
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I'm also going through the same thing (have posted on this topic before Christmas) were about three months post medicating the hocks. I never made it to starting any trot work under saddle sadly, we did six weeks walk work and part way through went lame again! I'm now completely back to square one and my horse is completely unwilling to go forwards again at any pace. Appears sound to lunge and is happy to go forwards on the lunge just not with a rider. Just ruled out back and saddle so now it's clearly down to the legs  only positive is his not hopping lame on both hinds like he was before we medicated.


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## Ceriann (5 January 2017)

Very interested in this thread.  My mare decided end of summer that she just didn't want to go forward for me ridden, I couldn't get her to walk willingly never mind trot.  She looked awkward on lunge.  Everything checked and no change so she was sent to vets for lameness work up, which was (I was told) inconclusive (though nerve block to one hock had shown an improvement such that she was lame in the other hind).  Scope next day showed marked ulcers and as hock X-ray came back clear vet focussed on ulcers (saying ulcers could in themselves cause the hind end awkwardness).  Months later, clear scope etc, we've never moved off first base (she will now walk for me under saddle but no more).  I've spoken to vet lots and they want her back in for another lameness work up which I'm unhappy about because they did that at the outset (we're not insured so I want to focus on progress now, not another work up) and also suggesting medicating hocks.  I just want a clear plan and to be able to move forward with her (she's a lovely genuine horse and I can't continue to push her as I know she's telling me something).


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## applecart14 (6 January 2017)

taraj said:



			Applcart is your horse back in full work now? how long has it taken?
 .
		
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Hi it was over 5.5 years ago now.  He went on to jump unaff to 1.05m, dressage to unaff elem and do the odd one day event.  This was with remedial farriery, careful management and a decent physio.  We were out every weekend at one point.  From distant memory (not too clear on dates tbh) he developed his first suspensory branch injury around summer 2013 which is a common injury in horses that SJ.  He got a second one whilst out in the field around twelve months later and the third one was as a result of going mad on the lunge when he sprung a shoe and galloped around for a while with it half on, half off Dec 2014/Jan 2015. He was actually fine after that, but then on vets advice because he was sound I was able to start jumping him and a trip to a dressage competition where he severely shied at a banner and twisted the leg shying set it all off again - on another leg!  All three injuries were on different legs and varied between lateral and distal.  I am sure if it were not for these set backs he would still be going strong.

Since recovering from his susp branch injury in Jan 2015 he's done XC schooling, jumping and dressage as well as fun rides although scans in Oct 2016 have shown that there is too much scar tissue to continue jumping him, there was also a degree of neck arthritis which has been managed through medication of the neck joint.

He's an old boy now (nearly 20) so is having a quieter life hacking, a bit of schooling and hopefully doing an occasional unaff prelim/novice dressage again this year with maybe the odd fun ride thrown in.  The vet is very pleased with him on last assessment before Xmas.

It was inferred on the forum that because he's had his hocks fused this has caused his suspensory branch problems.  The vet has always said that this is not the case and has had no bearing on the injuries sustained.
He is actually very good for his age.  This is him jumping two years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ELFI_j7Yjk


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## taraj (6 January 2017)

thanks applecart, its nice to hear/see that they can come right. Sorry to hear about the other injuries, my horse is feeling really good at the minute so fingers crossed it continues when we start a little trot work next week. Although he has already tested it out galloping around his field and scaring me to death his going to hurt himself!.


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## applecart14 (9 January 2017)

taraj said:



			thanks applecart, its nice to hear/see that they can come right. Sorry to hear about the other injuries, my horse is feeling really good at the minute so fingers crossed it continues when we start a little trot work next week. Although he has already tested it out galloping around his field and scaring me to death his going to hurt himself!.
		
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Hope all goes well for you.  They like to self harm for certain!


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## kinnygirl1 (10 January 2017)

Ceriann said:



			Very interested in this thread.  My mare decided end of summer that she just didn't want to go forward for me ridden, I couldn't get her to walk willingly never mind trot.  She looked awkward on lunge.  Everything checked and no change so she was sent to vets for lameness work up, which was (I was told) inconclusive (though nerve block to one hock had shown an improvement such that she was lame in the other hind).  Scope next day showed marked ulcers and as hock X-ray came back clear vet focussed on ulcers (saying ulcers could in themselves cause the hind end awkwardness).  Months later, clear scope etc, we've never moved off first base (she will now walk for me under saddle but no more).  I've spoken to vet lots and they want her back in for another lameness work up which I'm unhappy about because they did that at the outset (we're not insured so I want to focus on progress now, not another work up) and also suggesting medicating hocks.  I just want a clear plan and to be able to move forward with her (she's a lovely genuine horse and I can't continue to push her as I know she's telling me something).
		
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I have been through similar before the arthiritis.... my horse had ulcers and he was eventually diagnosed with SI pain.  We treated the ulcers and SI at the same time and he did come sound for a couple of years.  He moved awkwardly behind too.


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## LaurenBay (15 January 2017)

My mare has arthritis and had been through a tough time for the last year. My vet practice no longer do this op as they said most Horses are crippled in pain for the first 2 months. I did ask about it. How is your boy now? Sadly mine is running out of things we can try


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## kinnygirl1 (15 January 2017)

LaurenBay said:



			My mare has arthritis and had been through a tough time for the last year. My vet practice no longer do this op as they said most Horses are crippled in pain for the first 2 months. I did ask about it. How is your boy now? Sadly mine is running out of things we can try
		
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Hi.... Well he's ok on a low level of Bute and consistent excercise...I am hoping that the Bute won't be needed forever and that once the hocks have fused sufficiently he won't need it. I have the vet coming for another post procedure check on Friday so I will update this thread then. Sorry to hear about your girl...is it worth asking a different practice for a second opinion? The procedure itself was not particularly invasive and he definitely wasn't crippled, in fact the first few weeks he was better than he had been in ages! Jury still out on whether it was worth it in the long run though!


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## kinnygirl1 (20 January 2017)

UPDATE.....vet visit today and despite an up and down few weeks since his last check up my vet is really pleased with Stanley's progress. He is the most level behind that he has been throughout the process, my vet very kindly trotted him up for me so I could see for myself which was nice. The left hock is flexing more and looking the best it has so far. We think that the right one, which is further behind with fusion, is now starting to go through the stages the left I e has been through. The plan is to keep him on a low level of danililon through the next couple of months till the next check up and carry on the rehab at the current level. So all in all a positive update although we've a way to go yet. Thanks for reading.


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## PorkChop (21 January 2017)

Great news, so pleased for you   Hope it has given you a boost and is making the rehab a little bit more bearable.


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## kinnygirl1 (21 January 2017)

PorkChop said:



			Great news, so pleased for you   Hope it has given you a boost and is making the rehab a little bit more bearable.
		
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Thank you ...yes definitely feel more positive, plus the nights are getting lighter with the promise of Spring just around the corner giving me more time to concentrate on the rehab....I can see a dot of light at the end of the tunnel lol.


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## applecart14 (22 January 2017)

LaurenBay said:



			My mare has arthritis and had been through a tough time for the last year. My vet practice no longer do this op as they said most Horses are crippled in pain for the first 2 months. I did ask about it. How is your boy now? Sadly mine is running out of things we can try
		
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 hi Lauren Bay. I think u r getting confused. This is a procedure the OP has had carried out in her horse which is non invasive and non surgical and definetly not an operation although there is a hock operation  which is done under general anaesthetic and which involves drilling the hock out i think and i think its this ur getting confused with.


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## popsdosh (22 January 2017)

applecart14 said:



			hi Lauren Bay. I think u r getting confused. This is a procedure the OP has had carried out in her horse which is non invasive and non surgical and definetly not an operation although there is a hock operation  which is done under general anaesthetic and which involves drilling the hock out i think and i think its this ur getting confused with.
		
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Of course its invasive otherwise how do you define an injection into a joint .It is a surgical procedure.


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## applecart14 (23 January 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Of course its invasive otherwise how do you define an injection into a joint .It is a surgical procedure.
		
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Yes I did think that when I wrote it Popsdosh as it is invasive but what I actually was trying to get across is that its not as invasive insomuch that the horse is not cut with a scalpel on an operating table under GA.  I think this was what Lauren was getting mixed up with.

Yes the procedure carries risks, and yes it can go wrong.  There is a chance as with any intra articular injection that you can get a joint infection.  But the risks are considerably lowered when the procedure is done in a clinic in a more sterile environment than a yard.

And it is a relatively quick procedure, I think we were in and out (from the moment of arriving to the moment he loaded to go home) in about 75 mins.


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## kinnygirl1 (14 February 2017)

MINI UPDATE - just realised that I haven't updated this thread for a long time and with a lot of questions about hocks etc coming up on this board I thought it might be interesting. 

So at the last update my vet was really pleased with Stanley's progress.  The left hock(which was always the worst in terms of lameness and bony spurs on xray) was showing much better movement. The right hock was starting to look a little stiff and my vet felt that it may be going through the changes that the left one has gone through.  The plan was to introduce a low level of danilion (half a day) and continue the rehab work at the same level.  (up to 20 mins walk, 30 mins trot, 10 mins canter).  

Well, currently he feels good. He is soft and flexible to ride after a long stretchy warm up and not showing any of the sharpness/spookiness I have come to realise means he is sore.  And because he felt so good, I entered a walk trot dressage test locally as I thought he may appreciate a change of scene.. and guess what? We won with 70%.   Next vet visit is end of March so I will post again then.  Thanks for reading.


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## spike123 (14 February 2017)

That's brilliant news. So pleased things are looking up for you now. Mine is now on week 11 of his rehab work, his 3rd week of starting the trot work and so far so good but reluctant to say he's doing great as it's been such a roller coaster with him.


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## PorkChop (15 February 2017)

Great update, so pleased for you, great score too


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## kinnygirl1 (15 February 2017)

spike123 said:



			That's brilliant news. So pleased things are looking up for you now. Mine is now on week 11 of his rehab work, his 3rd week of starting the trot work and so far so good but reluctant to say he's doing great as it's been such a roller coaster with him.
		
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PorkChop said:



			Great update, so pleased for you, great score too 

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Thanks guys. I have come to realise its just a complete roller coaster too... so I'm just going to grab opportunities like that when he feels good. I think he enjoyed getting off the farm for a change and it certainly meant a lot to me.


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## kinnygirl1 (1 March 2017)

Just a little update - Stanley has 3 monthly physio sessions, mainly to try and soothe any compensatory muscle pain from his hock problems. Physio was out on Monday and was pleasantly surprised by how level Stanley looks behind compared to last time and also how little muscle tension and spasm he has in his back and SI area compared to her last visit.  I know I won't really know for sure he is making progress until my vet comes out again at the end of this month, but I am very encouraged by what the physio has said.  Will update you all in a few weeks with the vets verdict!


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## spike123 (1 March 2017)

That's great news. So pleased all is going really well and sounding very positive. Mine is now back in full work. We had our first canter at the weekend and the bonus was he didn't try to kill me lol.


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## kinnygirl1 (1 March 2017)

spike123 said:



			That's great news. So pleased all is going really well and sounding very positive. Mine is now back in full work. We had our first canter at the weekend and the bonus was he didn't try to kill me lol.
		
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Thank you! Sounds like you are really making progress too! That first canter can be nerve wracking but sounds like you cracked it! Well done.


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## Starstar2525 (6 March 2017)

I love reading your updates on Stanley my mare is going through the same. Due her 3rd check up on Wed hoping we will get the all clear to using the work load fingers crossed! All the best


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## kinnygirl1 (8 March 2017)

Starstar2525 said:



			I love reading your updates on Stanley my mare is going through the same. Due her 3rd check up on Wed hoping we will get the all clear to using the work load fingers crossed! All the best
		
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Aw thank you.... I wasn't sure if my updates were getting a bit boring because the progress seems so gradual at times.   Good luck with your mare... we are coming up to a  better time of year for rehab so it should get easier!


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## SEL (8 March 2017)

definitely not boring for those of us who have horses with dodgy hocks!


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## kinnygirl1 (8 March 2017)

SEL said:



			definitely not boring for those of us who have horses with dodgy hocks!
		
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that's good then, Ill keep going with the updates! I wanted to post a picture of Stanley working to make it more interesting but had terrible trouble trying to get one from facebook on here!


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## SamanthaElizabeth (22 March 2017)

Hi Kinnygirl1, I just wanted to post to say that I'm new to the Forum but have read your posts with interest and would be really interested to hear about yours and Stanley's progress. 

My horse was diagnosed with arthritis in his lower hock joints last June after becoming unlevel behind. He had steroid injections in July, repeated in August with good results but he felt unlevel again in January and repeat steroid injections had no real effect. We re-xrayed and the xrays showed considerable progression in both hocks with the left hock almost fused. The vet originally recommended riding him on two bute a day to encourage natural fusion but he was still lame on the bute and he became sore over his lumber region so I obviously didn't want to ride him with him being so uncomfortable. He went in for nerve blocks to check it was just the hocks last week and he blocked out to the lower hock joints so he went ahead and had the contrast testing and the ethanol injections on Friday. He stayed in on box rest over the weekend and I've been advised I can go on a gentle hack today (Wednesday). The vet is coming to check him next Tuesday. He's only 13 so I'm really hopeful the fusion will work and we can find a way to make him comfortable.  Good luck with the rest of Stanley's rehab.


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## kinnygirl1 (28 March 2017)

SamanthaElizabeth said:



			Hi Kinnygirl1, I just wanted to post to say that I'm new to the Forum but have read your posts with interest and would be really interested to hear about yours and Stanley's progress. 

My horse was diagnosed with arthritis in his lower hock joints last June after becoming unlevel behind. He had steroid injections in July, repeated in August with good results but he felt unlevel again in January and repeat steroid injections had no real effect. We re-xrayed and the xrays showed considerable progression in both hocks with the left hock almost fused. The vet originally recommended riding him on two bute a day to encourage natural fusion but he was still lame on the bute and he became sore over his lumber region so I obviously didn't want to ride him with him being so uncomfortable. He went in for nerve blocks to check it was just the hocks last week and he blocked out to the lower hock joints so he went ahead and had the contrast testing and the ethanol injections on Friday. He stayed in on box rest over the weekend and I've been advised I can go on a gentle hack today (Wednesday). The vet is coming to check him next Tuesday. He's only 13 so I'm really hopeful the fusion will work and we can find a way to make him comfortable.  Good luck with the rest of Stanley's rehab.
		
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Hi there - well, I don't have much of an update from my last post I don't think. Stanley was due a check from our vet at the end of March but sadly she is off work poorly. He is still on half a danilon a day and continuing with the same level of work as before. We have good days - where he doesn't seem stiff at all, and bad days - where he is stiff and carries tension all over his body although this does improve with a long stretchy warm up and on the whole I would say the good far outweigh the bad.  

My advice would be to follow the rehab plan as closely as you can but even if you can't do the prescribed amount of exercise every day, even a gentle walk in hand for 10 mins is better than nothing. Don't be afraid to ask your vet for a low level pain killer in order to get the rehab done... it should only be temporary whilst the fusion takes place.  Get a physio to give him an all over treatment regularly if you can.... hock pain can cause tension and soreness else where - this has really helped Stanley especially with lower back pain. Also , expect ups and downs rather than continuous improvement in the lameness - remember the hocks still have to go through the same process as if they were fusing naturally, it is just accelerated by the ethanol so there will be times when one could be more fused than the other thus presenting unlevelness. Stanley's left hock is further on than his right. 

All the best for a successful rehab!


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## kinnygirl1 (27 April 2017)

This will probably be my last update on this thread and sadly it's not a happy one. Stanley is lame again and my vet feels the fusion has failed. Her explanation was that nerves have grown back before the joints have fully fused and he is in pain once more. I am devastated for him. Options are long term Bute or arthrodesis using surgical drill which is done under general anaesthetic. A further complication has arisen in that he has also been diagnosed with EMS... I have a lot to think about. So for us it didn't work. However for those considering this procedure my vet said she has only ever seen 3 including Stanley that it didn't work for and most do have good results so do consider all options. Thank you to all who have read this thread and commented.


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## hopscotch bandit (28 April 2017)

kinnygirl1 said:



			This will probably be my last update on this thread and sadly it's not a happy one. Stanley is lame again and my vet feels the fusion has failed. Her explanation was that nerves have grown back before the joints have fully fused and he is in pain once more. I am devastated for him. Options are long term Bute or arthrodesis using surgical drill which is done under general anaesthetic. A further complication has arisen in that he has also been diagnosed with EMS... I have a lot to think about. So for us it didn't work. However for those considering this procedure my vet said she has only ever seen 3 including Stanley that it didn't work for and most do have good results so do consider all options. Thank you to all who have read this thread and commented.
		
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I am so very sorry Kinnygirl. I have followed your post for a while now and personally know of a lot of horses its worked for that is sheer rotten luck its not worked for your boy so fingers crossed for a better outcome if you consider arthrodesis with drilling as that may be a better option for him.Don't give up while there is still a chance and time/money left on your insurance.ultimately it is your decision though and I wish you all the very best whichever way you go. x


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## taraj (28 April 2017)

I'm sorry to hear this kinnygirl. I have posted here before about my lad having hock arthritis and steroid injections. Coincidently I am taking my lad back to the vets later today and EMS has been suggested. Despite being extra careful with turnout and sticking to his fitness plan he is becoming very pottery in his movement, hoping its not this as I am not sure how a horse can be managed well with both conditions? I don't know much about EMS. Fingers x its something simple as his been through enough this year for a 7 year old.


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## PorkChop (28 April 2017)

So, so sorry to read your lastest update.  Sending you both a hug x


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## kinnygirl1 (28 April 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			I am so very sorry Kinnygirl. I have followed your post for a while now and personally know of a lot of horses its worked for that is sheer rotten luck its not worked for your boy so fingers crossed for a better outcome if you consider arthrodesis with drilling as that may be a better option for him.Don't give up while there is still a chance and time/money left on your insurance.ultimately it is your decision though and I wish you all the very best whichever way you go. x
		
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thanks  - still thinking it all over. 



taraj said:



			I'm sorry to hear this kinnygirl. I have posted here before about my lad having hock arthritis and steroid injections. Coincidently I am taking my lad back to the vets later today and EMS has been suggested. Despite being extra careful with turnout and sticking to his fitness plan he is becoming very pottery in his movement, hoping its not this as I am not sure how a horse can be managed well with both conditions? I don't know much about EMS. Fingers x its something simple as his been through enough this year for a 7 year old.
		
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Yes I think its the worry about how his conditions can be managed together that worries me. 



PorkChop said:



			So, so sorry to read your lastest update.  Sending you both a hug x
		
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Thanks x


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## SEL (28 April 2017)

I am sorry to read this. 

I went for a 2nd opinion with my mare and her hock arthritis because I wasn't comfortable giving steroid injections into the hocks of a horse with a known metabolic problem (PSSM). I still can't get a vet to tell me whether it increases her risk of developing laminitis, so I'm pushing for other options. At the moment the key advice is to get her thin (she's draft x so well built). I think the vet's view is that the longer we can manage the hocks without any medical interference the better and her being skinny puts less pressure on the joint, plus reduces the risk of a reaction to any treatment. 

Don't be afraid to have a hunt around for other opinions from other vets. I found that involving a new vet meant a different viewpoint and discussions around some treatment options I hadn't heard before. 

Also long term bute isn't always a bad option. I rode a horse 14 years ago who was diagnosed with arthritic changes in his hocks at 15 years old. He's been managed on bute ever since & was ridden right into his late 20s.

Keep us updated.


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## LaurenBay (5 May 2017)

So sorry to hear this 

I am in the same boat as you and I am thinking more and more about retirement for her


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## kinnygirl1 (5 May 2017)

Ok...so I wasn't going to do any more updates in this thread as I feel that with the ethanol fusion not having worked for us, it had probably run its course BUT... We xrayed Stanley's hocks found that the edges of the joint were fusing/fused but the middle part of the joint hadn't. My vet discussed with the surgeon who felt he could help so Stanley went on the table under GA on Wednesday for surgical arthrodesis. It's early days and I have found it emotionally tough, Stanley has found it physically tough, but he is being discharged to a rehab yard tomorrow. I really hope we find some luck now...surgeon said based on other surgeries he's done and eat he saw of Stanley's joints he would give it a 70% chance. Thanks again for reading.


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## Theocat (6 May 2017)

Oh gosh, Kinnygirl - you really will be going through the mill.I haven't commented before for various reasons, but my own journey with my mare is similar, and I know just how you must be feeling. All the very best for you and Stanley - it will be incredibly hard for both you of but you deserve the luck to come sailing out the other side xx


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## kinnygirl1 (6 May 2017)

Theocat said:



			Oh gosh, Kinnygirl - you really will be going through the mill.I haven't commented before for various reasons, but my own journey with my mare is similar, and I know just how you must be feeling. All the very best for you and Stanley - it will be incredibly hard for both you of but you deserve the luck to come sailing out the other side xx
		
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 Thank you...yes horrid time at the moment...I really hope it proves to be worth it in the end!


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## spike123 (6 May 2017)

I'm so sorry to hear that Stanley's fusion didn't work. I will be firmly keeping everything crossed for you that the arthrodesis will be successful for him.


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## kinnygirl1 (6 May 2017)

spike123 said:



			I'm so sorry to hear that Stanley's fusion didn't work. I will be firmly keeping everything crossed for you that the arthrodesis will be successful for him.
		
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Thank you...hope yours is doing ok?


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## spike123 (6 May 2017)

thanks yes he's doing great. We went out to dressage for our first comp a  couple of weeks ago and won both our classes. So far so good and fingers crossed he will now stay sound.


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## Achinghips (7 May 2017)

Fusion with ethanol never worked for my mare.  I have another with hock arthritis now and he's managed with steroid injections and danillon, though is only a happy hacker and not ridden much. Hock arthritis is a common issue in many and I wonder if we over worry about it and attempt to do too much sometimes, rather than letting nature takes its course. Good luck with your horse.


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## kinnygirl1 (21 June 2017)

An update on Stanley. 

Stanley had his hocks fused surgically under general anaesthetic 7 weeks ago today. What a roller coaster of a 7 weeks its been.  Initially he coped really well with box rest although he hated the bandages and was constantly trying to rub them off.  When the bandages and staples were finally removed the end result was good... the scars were neat and there wasn't too much swelling. Then began 4 weeks further box rest but with hand walking twice daily. Although Stanley wasn't stressed by being in the stable he was ready to explode when he came out and tasted freedom... as a slightly nervous person we certainly had some interesting "walks" and at times I questioned whether I was up to the job!  Luckily I was at my instructors yard and she helped me no end. 

Last Wednesday we got the go ahead to start hacking and turnout in a small pen so I was able to take Stanley home at the weekend. So far he's been a bit wild and spooky on our hacks but I am managing. He seems much happier now he can go in the pen through the day as he is in a corner of his regular field and has his field mate close by.  

Soundness wise, my vet was impressed but we have a way to go. the surgeon says its all in the rehab work and this will take up to a year before we can really say if its been successful, so I am giving it my best despite my nerves! I am hoping as it becomes routine again he will settle a bit and turnout is helping.  

I hope this is still interesting to some people and thanks for reading.


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## MuddyTB (21 June 2017)

Good luck, hope his recovery continues well. I've been very interested to read your journey having one with mild hock arthritis myself.


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## SEL (26 June 2017)

Is Stanley sound now or is the aim of the rehab work to get him sound?

& yes - this thread is interesting because I've got one with hock arthritis and reading what people have had done and the outcomes is very, very useful. Please keep updating!


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## ester (26 June 2017)

Thanks for the update  I m sure so many people will find this thread interesting, I've certainly directed a few to it, I hope the post surgery rehab goes well.


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## kinnygirl1 (26 June 2017)

SEL said:



			Is Stanley sound now or is the aim of the rehab work to get him sound?

& yes - this thread is interesting because I've got one with hock arthritis and reading what people have had done and the outcomes is very, very useful. Please keep updating!
		
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That's a good question and tbh I'm not completely sure whether he is sound or not.  When trotted up for the vet she said he looked even ... now I take that to mean he is either sound or still bilaterally lame!   At 6 weeks post surgery its too soon to do a flexion or blocks as his joint will still be healing/fusing. The surgeon said it was the aim of the rehab work to actually fuse the joints and keep him sound but that it will take up to a year to be sure whether that has worked.  Either way my vet felt he was sound enough to progress to the next stage of rehab which is the hacking. I know that's a bit of a woolly answer but I get the impression with my limited understanding that this isn't an exact science! Next check up is in 5 weeks so may know more then.


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## sallyg (27 July 2017)

Hi kinnygirl

How is Stanley doing now?  

My horse had ethanol fusion done two weeks ago.  My vet's rehab programme is totally different to yours.  2 days box rest, 12 days turnout then start walking for 20 mins, building up to one hour over two weeks then re-assessment by the vet.  I followed Stanley's story with interest so would love an update as to how he is doing with his post-surgery rehab.   I'm not feeling very confident about my horse, I've got a bad feeling about it, but fingers crossed.


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## kinnygirl1 (27 July 2017)

Update!  Well, I can hardly believe I'm typing this but at his 13 week post surgery check up, Stanley trotted up sound! I couldn't believe it... I was hoping to hear he was making progress but to hear the word "sound" about Stanley was amazing. 

So currently he is doing 35 mins walk work a day with 3 trots of 5 minutes. He is stabled overnight and out in a restricted size paddock through the day. Now that he has trotted up sound and the scars are looking good I have been told I can gradually increase the size of his turnout area and I'm hoping that in about 6 weeks he will be back to 24/7 turnout (which is normal for him). He is full of himself at the moment so I'm taking it as a sign that he's feeling good and hoping that he settles a bit when he's finally back to his normal routine. Way to go yet but hopefully we're finally on the right track.


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## hopscotch bandit (28 July 2017)

Great news


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## PorkChop (28 July 2017)

Fantastic news


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## sallyg (28 July 2017)

That's wonderful to hear!  So pleased  for you


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## coffeeandabagel (4 September 2017)

Thanks for all your posts about Stanley. My mare has had ulcers, OCD of both hinds (had N&F op), then OCD of both stifles (arthrospcoy of both), now diagnosed with arthritis in both hocks AND possible suspensory damage to offside front leg! She has been offically retired aged 8  - but thats too young for me to quite give up on her and even if I could only ever hack with an occasional trot I would love to be able to do it. I have left a message for my vet to call and me and see if horse is a possible candidate for ethanol fusing. Trouble is - the hocks need exercise and the front leg needs rest so would certainly not start anything until the spring and see where she is then. 
Keep us up-to-date with your situation - and fingers crossed for Stanley


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## kinnygirl1 (4 September 2017)

coffeeandabagel said:



			Thanks for all your posts about Stanley. My mare has had ulcers, OCD of both hinds (had N&F op), then OCD of both stifles (arthrospcoy of both), now diagnosed with arthritis in both hocks AND possible suspensory damage to offside front leg! She has been offically retired aged 8  - but thats too young for me to quite give up on her and even if I could only ever hack with an occasional trot I would love to be able to do it. I have left a message for my vet to call and me and see if horse is a possible candidate for ethanol fusing. Trouble is - the hocks need exercise and the front leg needs rest so would certainly not start anything until the spring and see where she is then. 
Keep us up-to-date with your situation - and fingers crossed for Stanley
		
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Hi there...bless your poor mare and you. It's a nightmare when all their problems and treatment conflict each other. Stanley has also had stomach ulcers, SI joint dysfunction and is diagnosed EMS, however, I am managing those issues ok currently and working hard to fix the hocks. I will do a proper update next week as we are seeing the vet, but for now we are up to 3 X 15 mins trotting, lots of walk work, occasional lunge and occasional canter. It very hard work and a challenge for us both physically as both happy hackers normally! His left hock is  clicking which panicked me initially but spoke to vet and she said not to worry cos it means it's doing what it should be. Phew. Will do a proper update once she has checked him over in person tho and let you know what's what.


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## kinnygirl1 (21 September 2017)

A little update- still looking like good news. Vet came on Monday and was really pleased with Stanley. He trotted up absolutely sound on the straight hard ground and we lunged him on the school for the first time since his op... he is also sound in a circle both ways!  Vet said if she was being really picky his left hock doesn't come through quite as much as his right but wasn't worried about that. It may improve with time or it may not but shouldn't cause a problem.  I can now add some large circles into my rehab and do a little more canter.  Very happy!


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## ester (21 September 2017)

Brilliant news


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## SEL (21 September 2017)

kinnygirl1 said:



			A little update- still looking like good news. Vet came on Monday and was really pleased with Stanley. He trotted up absolutely sound on the straight hard ground and we lunged him on the school for the first time since his op... he is also sound in a circle both ways!  Vet said if she was being really picky his left hock doesn't come through quite as much as his right but wasn't worried about that. It may improve with time or it may not but shouldn't cause a problem.  I can now add some large circles into my rehab and do a little more canter.  Very happy!
		
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That's great news - I bet you don't care about the 'picky' either!


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## kinnygirl1 (21 September 2017)

ester said:



			Brilliant news 

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 thanks.x



SEL said:



			That's great news - I bet you don't care about the 'picky' either!
		
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Ha ha....no I don't care at all! Just very proud of how well he's doing. X


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## kinnygirl1 (1 December 2017)

November update!   He is still sound!   AND moving the best my vet has ever seen him. (Her words ) So relieved as its been a struggle to stick to the rehab with the rubbish weather making my trotting and cantering places soggy and slippy. Next step is to start to introduce some school work to get all the muscles toned and working correctly so circles, serpentines and some pole work are all on the menu as well as the straight line work out hacking.  Poor old Stanley!


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## MuffettMischief (1 December 2017)

Have just read this through from start to finish and am very interested in it all!

I have to say kudos to you because you really have been through it and to stick it out and stick to your rehab plan so religiously is incredible! Well done you!!


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## kinnygirl1 (1 December 2017)

MuffettMischief said:



			Have just read this through from start to finish and am very interested in it all!

I have to say kudos to you because you really have been through it and to stick it out and stick to your rehab plan so religiously is incredible! Well done you!!
		
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Aw thankyou ....made my eyes leak a little. I won't lie it's been hard at times and after the setback when the ethanol arthrodesis failed I felt frustrated and wondered if I could keep on with it.... But what can I say, he is my horse of a lifetime and I knew I just had to try. I'm very lucky as I have a very understanding and kind vet who is happy to talk thru things with me endlessly.


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## kinnygirl1 (1 February 2018)

Last update.... He is sound and we are signed off to "crack on". Thank you to all of you who have been on this journey with me. I really hope this mahoosive thread will help someone out there.


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## ester (1 February 2018)

Brilliant!


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## SEL (2 February 2018)

Great news!


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## Leanne1980 (31 May 2018)

Hi I have read your post with huge interest as my 7 yr old has been diagnosed with severe hock changes. Osphos and steroids are very short lived so the vet has recommended surgical fusion. Can you advise on the costs and  the rehab plan including amount of box rest? Thank you. How's Stanley doing now? Xx


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## kinnygirl1 (5 June 2018)

Leanne1980 said:



			Hi I have read your post with huge interest as my 7 yr old has been diagnosed with severe hock changes. Osphos and steroids are very short lived so the vet has recommended surgical fusion. Can you advise on the costs and  the rehab plan including amount of box rest? Thank you. How's Stanley doing now? Xx
		
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Hi there. Sorry to hear about your horse. 

Well its been a year now since Stanley's procedure... and he is still sound! Although I should clarify that we are happy hackers and light schoolers predominately so I haven't really tested him so to speak!  We have popped over some little jumps though and he loved it!  

Cost wise - well I claimed on my insurance and the total claim came to nearly £6000 BUT that is right from the start of his hock problems so includes the initial steroid injections, the failed ethanol arthrodesis and all the checks ups and then the surgery and all the check ups bandage changes etc.  If I remember correctly the op itself was around £2000.00. 

Rehab - well it was 4 weeks total box rest then box rest with gradually increasing hand walks.  By 3 months he was stabled at night and out in a small paddock through the day with controlled ridden work and by 6 months he was back to full time turn out and on a prescribed exercise programme... a little faster than the surgeon originally predicted I think but he became sound quicker than expected.  

Good luck


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## Leanne1980 (21 June 2018)

Hi kinnygirl. My mare has had her hock drilled today and the rehab plan the vet has given me is very quick. Basically two weeks box rest then turnout and ride. That seems far to quick for me. Do you have a plan what the vet gave you that you could share? X


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## kinnygirl1 (21 June 2018)

Leanne1980 said:



			Hi kinnygirl. My mare has had her hock drilled today and the rehab plan the vet has given me is very quick. Basically two weeks box rest then turnout and ride. That seems far to quick for me. Do you have a plan what the vet gave you that you could share? X
		
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It's different to the pkan I followed but certainly the rehab needs to be quite aggressive and active to encourage the joint to fuse so that may be why. My boy had 20 staples in each hock and vet wanted to ensure the incision wound itself did not break down by over exerting himself in the field for example and that was part of the reason he had 4 weeks box rest to make sure it was knitted properly before turnout if that makes sense. I'll see if I still have my plan anywhere for you. Hope your mare is ok. Stan was quite sore the first few days.


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## Leanne1980 (22 June 2018)

Hi thanks for your response. Yes the vet advised she would be sore and with her hock being a mess to start with it may take a bit longer for her to come right. But he was very positive about the outcome which is good. He also said she would need to use the hock to make it fuse. He didn't want her out till the stitches are out which makes sense. It's going to be very hot weather next week which bothers me a little as she will be so hot in the stable. If you can find the plan that would be great. Just interested in comparing the hand walking, riding parts etc. Really want to make sure I do it right and I know that sometimes vets rush the rehab xx


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## Leanne1980 (24 June 2018)

Hi kittygirl. Did you manage to find your rehab plan? I've picked my mare up from the vets today and other than two weeks box rest I've been given no other instructions. I did ask but the treating vet was not there x


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## kinnygirl1 (25 June 2018)

Leanne1980 said:



			Hi kittygirl. Did you manage to find your rehab plan? I've picked my mare up from the vets today and other than two weeks box rest I've been given no other instructions. I did ask but the treating vet was not there x
		
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Yes I have it... It's 3 pages long... Do you want to pm me your email address and I'll scan it in at work and forward to you.


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## kinnygirl1 (13 October 2018)

When Stanley had surgery last year I would have loved to add pictures to show his progress but unfortunately on the old forum I couldn't find a way that allowed me upload them so I have attached a few now fir anyone who's interested. Beginning with the first day after the op in horspital, his bandages, the hocks on the day the staples came out, first Ride after box rest, first hack, first turnout back home in his micro paddock, first trot and finally one from this summer enjoying being a normal (ish) horse again. Hope you like them.


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