# Enlighten me about terrier work please. :)



## Archina (30 June 2011)

Basically what it says in the title.  Had a read through the 'terrier baiting' thread and its left me slightly confused as to what terrier work is. I used to work with birds of prey and been on many a hunt with a few harris hawks and ferrets. Hawk chases rabbit down burrow, falconer sends down ferret to flush out rabbit so hawk can then chase down and kill said bunny. Is it the same idea? 

Thanks in advance!


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## wyremead (1 July 2011)

Yes it was ....with a net over the hole or when  hunting.... a pack of hounds near by.

A good terrier will bolt a fox and bad terrier will try and kill a fox not a nice way for either the fox or the terrier..and ive worked terriers fro 25 years plus.

Im a river keeper and we hunted mink with a pack of terriers now we use 2 terriers to locate and a shotgun to control numbers.


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## Archina (1 July 2011)

Thanks! 

The other thread did mention digging. Is that as a last resort? I have had to dig a few ferrets out rabbit burrows because the ferret ends up killing the rabbit and has basically sealed itself in the burrow or it wants to enjoy its kill and has no intentions of coming out! lol 

Once you have caught the fox in the net, how is it dispatched?


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## Dobiegirl (2 July 2011)

It is shot.


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## ThePinkPony (2 July 2011)

Generally you arrive at an earth, with dogs, we only ever have two with us but you only ever put one dog down at any time, they are equipped with a locator collar and you have the handheld locator above ground with you.

The dog is then put down on the ground, she should go have a sniff about looking for signs a fox is there, going underground... this can take 20 minutes or much longer. You can keep track of where she is with the locator, that tells you location and depth.

Once dog had found a fox she will bark at it, and try to hold it in place (not physically) this is called baying. If there isnt a fox down there the dog should come back out fairly quickly. the dog can also bolt a fox and there should be people above ground well versed in shooting bolting foxes who can then shoot it quickly and cleanly (would be so much easier if this happened more often)

Once the dog has stopped moving about and is baying consistently then you dig down to it, the dog shouldnt have touched fox and should have kept a distance between them.. obviously they are anmals and scraps can occur, but they are rarely to the extent PaulT described.

Once you have ''broken though' to the tunnel you should be above the distance between the dog and fox, fox can be grabbed and pulled out and then dispatched, or if the shot is viable and sure of a safe kill then it will be shot in the hole.

It may sound very traumatic, but i have witnessed foxes bolt out of the hole and literally trot off completely nonplussed.

Hope this helps..


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## ThePinkPony (2 July 2011)

Archina said:



			Thanks! 

The other thread did mention digging. Is that as a last resort? I have had to dig a few ferrets out rabbit burrows because the ferret ends up killing the rabbit and has basically sealed itself in the burrow or it wants to enjoy its kill and has no intentions of coming out! lol 

Once you have caught the fox in the net, how is it dispatched?
		
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Well usually if you have a fox killing pheasants then you sit out until dusk or at dawn with a rifle and try to dispatch it that way, it is the easier and more favoured route but somethimes is not all that successful, thats when digging comes into hand.


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## Archina (2 July 2011)

Thanks for the responses!


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## ThePinkPony (2 July 2011)

Archina said:



			Thanks for the responses! 

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But archina, dont just assume that foxes are controlled for fun. Vermin control is a serious business and one of the reasons our country is so rich in various species. 

If we didnt have the farmers and gamekeepers to keep this country in the condition it is, then things would be extremely different for upcoming generations.


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## Archina (3 July 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			But archina, dont just assume that foxes are controlled for fun. Vermin control is a serious business and one of the reasons our country is so rich in various species. 

I don't believe the vast majority do it for fun but there are always certain individuals who take great enjoyment or complete indifference to the unnecessary pain they inflict. Its often the actions of these certain people that cause problems for the rest. 

If we didnt have the farmers and gamekeepers to keep this country in the condition it is, then things would be extremely different for upcoming generations.

That's a whole different kettle of fish with a lot of good arguments for and against. Don't think i can take the commitment of a discussion like that...lol 

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I don't see a problem with terrier work if its done properly and humanely but i understand things can go wrong. I do however think we created the problem in the first place and it is our responsibility to correct it. Even though i have been hunting with hawks and ferreting i still think its unnecessary. I feel the same way about fox hunting and pheasant shoots. That's just my opinion.


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## wyremead (3 July 2011)

The yob macho never grown up men that bait peolpe as well as animals and want a fight in a bar or football match are the reason terrier work is in even been brought to light over the past 30 years. Along with the wrong type of terrier being used, an all together more headstrong uninteligent brutish thug like dog ..(temprememnt and built identical to the person holding the lead) .

Responsable quite terriermen going about there job without vidoes and camers and without hoards of unlookers equiped with a terrier with the correct temprement for the job can still be found but they are very very rare.

Any game fair will show up the previuose type complete with england football strip and cloned son, knuckles of one hand dragging in the grass , whilist the chain lead wrapped around the other struggles to hold back a black terrier walking on its hind legs. The owner may also have a wife built some what similar but far heavier who tags along grasping a shorter lead with a lurcher type dog that could easily whit  out great effort bring a fully grown hereford bull to its knees .! Never mind a bunny rabbit.

Sad but true .


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## ThePinkPony (3 July 2011)

wyremead said:



			The yob macho never grown up men that bait peolpe as well as animals and want a fight in a bar or football match are the reason terrier work is in even been brought to light over the past 30 years. Along with the wrong type of terrier being used, an all together more headstrong uninteligent brutish thug like dog ..(temprememnt and built identical to the person holding the lead) .

Responsable quite terriermen going about there job without vidoes and camers and without hoards of unlookers equiped with a terrier with the correct temprement for the job can still be found but they are very very rare.

Any game fair will show up the previuose type complete with england football strip and cloned son, knuckles of one hand dragging in the grass , whilist the chain lead wrapped around the other struggles to hold back a black terrier walking on its hind legs. The owner may also have a wife built some what similar but far heavier who tags along grasping a shorter lead with a lurcher type dog that could easily whit  out great effort bring a fully grown hereford bull to its knees .! Never mind a bunny rabbit.

Sad but true .
		
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Love it! so very very true. These types are also THE authority on anything to do with ANYTHING. best avoided.


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## CARREG (3 July 2011)

wyremead said:



			The yob macho never grown up men that bait peolpe as well as animals and want a fight in a bar or football match are the reason terrier work is in even been brought to light over the past 30 years. Along with the wrong type of terrier being used, an all together more headstrong uninteligent brutish thug like dog ..(temprememnt and built identical to the person holding the lead) .

Responsable quite terriermen going about there job without vidoes and camers and without hoards of unlookers equiped with a terrier with the correct temprement for the job can still be found but they are very very rare.

Any game fair will show up the previuose type complete with england football strip and cloned son, knuckles of one hand dragging in the grass , whilist the chain lead wrapped around the other struggles to hold back a black terrier walking on its hind legs. The owner may also have a wife built some what similar but far heavier who tags along grasping a shorter lead with a lurcher type dog that could easily whit  out great effort bring a fully grown hereford bull to its knees .! Never mind a bunny rabbit.

Sad but true .
		
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If I didnt know better (because of the spelling mostly) I'd have guessed at Plummer writing the above...lol.................Carreg


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## Clodagh (3 July 2011)

wyremead said:



			The yob macho never grown up men that bait peolpe as well as animals and want a fight in a bar or football match are the reason terrier work is in even been brought to light over the past 30 years. Along with the wrong type of terrier being used, an all together more headstrong uninteligent brutish thug like dog ..(temprememnt and built identical to the person holding the lead) .

Responsable quite terriermen going about there job without vidoes and camers and without hoards of unlookers equiped with a terrier with the correct temprement for the job can still be found but they are very very rare.

Any game fair will show up the previuose type complete with england football strip and cloned son, knuckles of one hand dragging in the grass , whilist the chain lead wrapped around the other struggles to hold back a black terrier walking on its hind legs. The owner may also have a wife built some what similar but far heavier who tags along grasping a shorter lead with a lurcher type dog that could easily whit  out great effort bring a fully grown hereford bull to its knees .! Never mind a bunny rabbit.

Sad but true .
		
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I love it! They were the reason my OH gave up terrier work.


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## wyremead (4 July 2011)

Seems the truth hurts ,,,was emailed this from a fell and moorland rep....I quote ...

_This was put up on a forum I go on, I think that the way you are categorising terriermen is unfounded and very wrong.

There are and always will be irresponsible dog men  but your description is unfounded.

You are feeding the anti&#8217;s the very ammunition they crave, divide and conquer is just what they are aiming at.

Are your dogs worked or do you just breed to show?

 Could you please let me know if you were taken out of context or if this is your real views, Oh I am Tattooed and have black dogs !!_ _

Mick Flower 

F&MWTC East Mids Rep_.







Oh and a he had a pop at my grammer and spelling..

and my reply ....

I have my views and you have yours. 
So be it and that whats the forums are for.... opinions  ..views.
You obviuosely fit the description lol 

As for the fell and moorland working terrier club and reps ...

Well the northwest area of the fell and moorland club was banned localy at wyreside fishery due to fighting and wrecking the bar...alledgley .

And that was june 2010 ..my description above was partly driven from that day Mr Flowers.

PS hope the speling is ok and grammer is up to standard id ask you not to bother emialing again thanks ...say what you have to say here 

Come on now dont be shy and email ...just have your say ...im sure the fell and moorland sec, will be happy for your to continue ..or will he/she??

.


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## ThePinkPony (4 July 2011)

Wyremead, you probably know as well as i do that a certain percentage of our ''type''  take on a steely resolve that no wrong is ever incurred in their chosen hobby (rather than sport, as i have always seen it as a job) and all those who partake never put a foot wrong. You are banging your head against a brick wall.

Theres enough of us out there that avoid the types you describe. twenty ''wannabe terriermen'' on a dig, cameras at the ready, posing with their badly conformed dogs (although its always the worse man in this group that seems to land themself with a beautiful stamp of a dog that they subsequently ruin..unfair really) posing with the spade, with the fox, with the dogs, with everyone.... Eugh. they are best avioded, they'll dig themselves into trouble soon enough.


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## wyremead (4 July 2011)

Seems ive upset a few folk but hay they bring it themselves ..
 Cheers pinky!!


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## EAST KENT (5 July 2011)

We had one of these jokers turn up to a meet complete with terrier,camo and a MACHETE..why? All of their dogs wanted to pile in on  hounds,and because they were`nt digging and killing foxes all day they found it all too boring..thank God!
   There`s an element out there who just wantonly kill,and still are,night after night,any earth, any fox ,any season.And if they can then strut about in their camos at game  fairs and terrier shows with a seriously rearranged terrier they are truly happy. You know,absolutely ,that it was a badger who did that facial rearrangement,but they`re proud of their brutality.
   Those are the ones who tarnish every working terrier person.


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## wyremead (5 July 2011)

True enough like i said every terrier  show has them..and then they wonder why everyone has something "negative" to say about them and there terriers.


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## welshie1982 (5 July 2011)

wyremead said:



			The yob macho never grown up men that bait peolpe as well as animals and want a fight in a bar or football match are the reason terrier work is in even been brought to light over the past 30 years. Along with the wrong type of terrier being used, an all together more headstrong uninteligent brutish thug like dog ..(temprememnt and built identical to the person holding the lead) .

Responsable quite terriermen going about there job without vidoes and camers and without hoards of unlookers equiped with a terrier with the correct temprement for the job can still be found but they are very very rare.

Any game fair will show up the previuose type complete with england football strip and cloned son, knuckles of one hand dragging in the grass , whilist the chain lead wrapped around the other struggles to hold back a black terrier walking on its hind legs. The owner may also have a wife built some what similar but far heavier who tags along grasping a shorter lead with a lurcher type dog that could easily whit  out great effort bring a fully grown hereford bull to its knees .! Never mind a bunny rabbit.

Sad but true .
		
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please dont tar all us black dog owners with the same brush.  Yes there are some idiots out there but they dont always have black terriers i have seen a few with jack russels, plumbers and shock horror even borders.   yes i keep bull lurchers and black terriers but believe me i am not the image that you describe.


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## ThePinkPony (5 July 2011)

I was at an auction the other day when two  lads, tatooed, camo trousers, arsenal shirt and utility belt, turned up with two bull cross lurchers on baler twine slips. 

Did they not realise that to anyone that knows lurchers, those dogs were bags of bones, no shine to their coat, no muscle of any sort, dead eyes and not the 'killers' that those two men wanted everyone to think.

And EK, you were braver than me, i wanted to mention the scarred faces and torn lips thanks to brock but thought id get banned or something...its so true.


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## welshie1982 (5 July 2011)

i am afraid there are good and bad in every sector of life.  i know some very responsible people with terriers and bullxs. i have also in my many years of being involved with terriers and lurches ( dad was a terrierman and now a terriermans wife) seen some people i would not like to meet again.  these people that give the game a bad name yet they are never around for long before moving on to the next new thing.  when i was a child i had to have my bullx on a piece of string not because that was the image but because he came everywhere with me without a lead. he was one of the most loyal dogs i have owned and when i wanted to take him to a show that was all i could find.


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## wyremead (5 July 2011)

We all are aware welshie that theres good and bad...etc  but the piont here was that the majority now are the wrong types due to the attraction of blood and guts and machismo of the wrongly thought past time/sport

Its not a sport if your a countryman its not a hobby its a job ..but its turned due to books and magazines  into a hobby for the masses..

These being children ranging form older teenagers too mid thirties "teenymen"...some eventulay grow up and turn up at shows with tatasal shirts and ties (top button undone ) in an attempt to look "more responsable"...but sport the big bakebean can exhausts on there cars..they just cant shake off the desire to ""show off."


I'm the vice chair of the european plumme terrier society was once sec and chair of the said club and the Plummer terrier association, which i started with brain plummer ..ive pushed and failed for years to have a dress code for our club show and am a stunch campaigner of the correct dress and ethos and policy .

We were once labled an elitest club ...great !!..keep the dross at bay !!


Let the fell and moorland have them !


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## dogdancer (18 October 2011)

wyremead said:



			A good terrier will bolt a fox and bad terrier will try and kill a fox not a nice way for either the fox or the terrier..and ive worked terriers fro 25 years plus.
		
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Thats a very misleading answear,you dont mention if the fox is willing or able to bolt.
A good terrier with a fox in a dead end wouldn't or shouldn't let a fox go past him.
I dont doubt you have had kept terriers for twenty five years but you didn't spend many of them working fox.


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## wyremead (8 November 2011)

dogdancer said:



			Thats a very misleading answear,you dont mention if the fox is willing or able to bolt.
A good terrier with a fox in a dead end wouldn't or shouldn't let a fox go past him.
I dont doubt you have had kept terriers for twenty five years but you didn't spend many of them working fox.
		
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So presumeing the fox cant bolt and the fox is in rock in the north country it is very possible and common ...i once had a pack rabbiting that found a fox on top it ran a fare way and  went to ground in a pile of concrete(old lamposts)  twice the size of an averge house !!!

I was lucky my Plummer terriers pushed it all over that pile of concrete and it was in and out for a good hour before settling..even after bolting a resident stumpy legged fox !!...i called out three terriers and lost 2 i waited and waited dark came and i left for a lamp on return ! (hour later ) one had come out . The other was missing and I was conviced he would have come away when called. 
He had unbeknown to me and was pciked up by a dog walker .Who took it home after telling the police he had found him . I called the police in case and nothing i called again a week later thye sadi they had a terrier 25 miles away matching the tattoo marking.

Had i satyed and been patient he would have come from that pile of concrete but alas i was younger then and didnt know or trust my training skills ..today i now better and ai know that a dog that stays to ground and dosnt let the fox move is a dead terrier in alot of cases.  highlighted by the above   that terrier would have been dead..as nobody would have found him amongst that pile .

Bolters with brains not thugs with big fat heads...like there owners!


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