# Amber Options



## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

So anyone following the weekend thread will know that I broke 2 bones - tibia and talus - falling off Amber who was a bit (very) wild at Somerford. I've had her 3 years, ridden her at Somerfird dozens of times and she's never behaved like that. Yes she's exuberant but that has always expressed itself in speed and height, not in airs above the ground. My RI said it looked like exuberance.  She's too fresh. But she is worked 5/6 times a week! And she gets 3/4 hours turn out a day which is not as much as I'd like but  lot better than many get in winter. She'll have more in April x

Anyway I'll be out for about 12 weeks. And I need to decide what to do with her. There's a resting livery not far from me where she could be turned away. Lose some fitness hopefully (though she never really does) chill a bit and then go on schooling livery for a month or so before I get back on? 

Or leave her at home but limited turnout without the work is not tempting so I'd need to pay someone to keep her working. 

Or I'm even now seriously considering letting someone else ride/compete her this season while I rebuild my confidence on Dolly. I think I'd enjoy driving round watching her in action. 

Those with event horses - as they get, fitter, stronger and more experienced do they actually get MORE challenging as they know what it's all about and get excited?  I remember my first BE80 at Kelsall - we basically trotted round it! I could not do that now I don't think. Heads all over the place so thoughts welcome.


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## Starzaan (20 January 2020)

Horses when they’re very fit do get more silly if they aren’t given the opportunity to run it off. 
Personally I wouldn’t keep my boy if I couldn’t guarantee 8 hours of turnout a day minimum in winter because he would simply be unrideable. 

Having worked with fit competition horses across several disciplines I can confirm that once a horse knows and loves its job, it is likely to get a bit exuberant at competitions. One of our polo ponies is a prime example - she’s an idiot whilst stood at the side of the pitch waiting for her turn. She flings herself around like a cat on hot coals, and squeals like a pig. Her first season she stood quietly. Now she knows the drill she gets excited. 

If it were me I would turn her away and look at it again in a couple of months time. I would also consider the turnout situation for next winter, or look at working seven days a week, sometimes twice a day, to keep on top of the silliness. That is the only way I can keep my boy rideable.


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## milliepops (20 January 2020)

I'm not sure if Millie was an event horse but she was a horse that evented. She definitely got more lit up when she knew what was coming but I think I got better at managing her so it wasn't really a problem. I never did crack the lit-upness hunting though - I just gave up!

Anyway, I think this depends on how much of a battering your confidence has had. In the immediate term it won't hurt her to be turned away for a bit if that's the easiest solution. I think this would mean you end up with horses on 3 yards though?  which would not be ideal and I wouldn't want to be in a rush to move her again having only just moved - even the ones that seem OK with moves do reach a point where they aren't really coping deep down I think.

if there's an option to keep her at home and have someone do stuff with her that may be better, if there's someone suitable and you have the funds for it.

If you are feeling a bit wobbly about the idea of riding and competing her yourself this year then that changes things. Do you think that's a serious option, or just a bit of the shock and surprise talking?  Might you just want someone to do the first half of the season, and then you'd be dying to get back on board yourself?


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## TheMule (20 January 2020)

Being worked 5 days a week and standing in a stable for up to 21 hours is a recipe for disaster with anything but the sanest, and you've got a quality competition horse who is a bit fit.
I think you have the right ideas- either I would turn her away or bite the bullet and send her to a semi-pro if you can find one, or pro if you can’t and enjoy being an owner. They could really establish her for you whilst you recover and if you enjoyed it and could afford it(!) then it could carry on.


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

milliepops said:



			If you are feeling a bit wobbly about the idea of riding and competing her yourself this year then that changes things. Do you think that's a serious option, or just a bit of the shock and surprise talking?  Might you just want someone to do the first half of the season, and then you'd be dying to get back on board yourself?
		
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I honestly don't know. I think it's too early to tell tbh. I have crises of confidence on her every so often but we get through them. But whether this time the wobbles may persist a bit I don't know! It's a good point about moving her again. The place I was thinking of looks nice and relaxed for the horses - it''s used as a retirement/rehab or end of season resting place. But a move is a move and it's too far for me to go and see her often. She'd be in a new place with  new people looking after. But then again if I give her to someone to ride that will also be another move unless they can school/compete from my yard.


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

TheMule said:



			Being worked 5 days a week and standing in a stable for up to 21 hours is a recipe for disaster with anything but the sanest, and you've got a quality competition horse who is a bit fit.
		
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Not enough turn out or not  enough work? Or both? Somerford has liveries who are all quality comp horses and they get 2-3 hours every other day in winter! A lot of competition yards seem to have very limited turnout.


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## be positive (20 January 2020)

I hope you don't take this the wrong way but to me she has often looked rather too much in control and as if she could become explosive in certain situations, being in more than normal, getting stronger and fitter would be the type of scenario where she could go pop, if you can afford to send her to a pro it could be the making of her, you then have the option of taking back a more established horse or selling if you decide to change direction, you may find someone, DeeDees sharer?? or similar, to ride her from your yard but that can cost more when all things are accounted for. 

Hope you are not too sore, it sounds nasty and very unlucky, just what you didn't need when you were getting settled.


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## milliepops (20 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			Not enough turn out or not  enough work? Or both? Somerford has liveries who are all quality comp horses and they get 2-3 hours every other day in winter! A lot of competition yards seem to have very limited turnout.
		
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HHO will always come back and say not enough turnout  
Mine are getting about 3 hours a day at the moment and it certainly makes for lively rides, I do really try and work them every day to make up for the time spent in the stable.  this is the best I can do in my area, most places randomly close fields for a week at a time, at least with this regime they go out every single day in winter.

But I would try and get more work into her if she was mine - this is fine to say after the event and doesn't help you now though!


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## milliepops (20 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			I honestly don't know. I think it's too early to tell tbh. I have crises of confidence on her every so often but we get through them. But whether this time the wobbles may persist a bit I don't know! .
		
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Right, well don't make any decisions yet then.
if she's going out every day at the moment even for a short time then it's not desperately urgent.
Don't make a snap decision when you're still reeling from the shock of what happened. And disappointment & all the rest of the stuff swirling around with Izzy and her injury etc. 
Can you buy yourself a bit of time to think, could your YO or instructor or someone just tick Amber over for a week or 2 for you with quiet stuff so you don't end up leaping into something?

From the outside I would say I agree with BP that she seems like a horse that takes control quite easily so it may be useful for her to spend the next few weeks/months with someone, learning to allow herself to be controlled more easily instead... then you could have a consolidation period together when you're back and healed and you'd still have the second half of the season for yourself.  I think that might be more useful to you than sending her to a pro to compete because a pro will probably cope with her exuberance as just a normal cheerful competition horse, but you still have the problem to deal with when she comes back.


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## Broodle (20 January 2020)

I don't have any answers as I'm certainly no expert (and not a proper eventer), but my generally sane and easy connie can get wild and lit up about xc early in the season, or later in the season if he hasn't been xc for a while. He can pull some moves! I've decided to pay a pro to get him going for me this year, and I can pick up the ride once he's more established. Like you, I think I will enjoy being owner rather than rider for a bit! No harm in that, imo.

Really sorry about your fall - it sounds awful x


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## be positive (20 January 2020)

MP has pointed out something pertinent, finding a pro that will ride her with you in mind rather than wanting to just get results in competitions is important, it will be no help if they go out and run her up through the levels, she needs to be learning to settle, do a better test and be a little more mannerly xc all which should be doable by the right person, the wrong one will get her more buzzy and be counter productive.


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

be positive said:



			I hope you don't take this the wrong way but to me she has often looked rather too much in control and as if she could become explosive in certain situations, being in more than normal, getting stronger and fitter would be the type of scenario where she could go pop, if you can afford to send her to a pro it could be the making of her, you then have the option of taking back a more established horse or selling if you decide to change direction, you may find someone, DeeDees sharer?? or similar, to ride her from your yard but that can cost more when all things are accounted for.

Hope you are not too sore, it sounds nasty and very unlucky, just what you didn't need when you were getting settled.
		
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Not taking it the wrong way. I know she takes over too often. She's always been on the edge of what I can manage but I have never felt unsafe on her before. Lacking control sometimes but  not actually unsafe as I can get her back fairly quickly.  I love Amber. She is so enthusiastic and generous and brave and tries so hard. I decided long ago that I just need to get good enough to ride her. I have worked so, so hard to try and step up to be able to ride her and the idea of giving up and letting her go breaks my heart. But I have kids,, am self employed and the family totally rely on my income. And maybe I just can't take her any further on as the better she gets and the more we do, the more powerful and keen she gets?

Or maybe a few tweaks to her management and a few weeks at boot-camp would sort her out for me?!

 If I was to send her away, how long for? I'm looking at 3 months till I can ride again, I was thinking 6 weeks turned away or ticking over and 6 weeks with a pro. Or should I use a pro asap? Just costs a fortune! I guess the pro  can tell me whether she becomes a nice mannerly ride or whether she is still a bit yeehaa? Or will she just behave well for them anyway because they will  contain her without even realising they are doing anything. Too many things to think about!


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## ihatework (20 January 2020)

Oh no, just what you didn’t need 😢

These competition horses do get to know the job and can get above themselves, especially in a winter like this when turnout is reduced/non existent and the ground is dodgy to even get good canterwork into them. Even my big saint is quite bright at the moment!

The one option I wouldn’t do is keep a horse like her on half day turnout and in light work with someone else. That is a recipe for disaster.

Either turning her away or sending her to the (right) pro is an option. Obviously at opposite ends of the financial scale though. If you are looking for someone I can suggest someone suitable by PM - she has done similar for a couple of other amateur riders


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## Fiona (20 January 2020)

I'm truly gutted for you AE....  Fionn is being very silly and bouncy at the moment, but his bucks and bounces are so far easy to sit to, so I just laugh.  Don't think I'd be still laughing if he had landed me in your situation though...

Do you have a pro in mind that you could send her to??

Fiona


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

milliepops said:



			Right, well don't make any decisions yet then.
if she's going out every day at the moment even for a short time then it's not desperately urgent.
Don't make a snap decision when you're still reeling from the shock of what happened. And disappointment & all the rest of the stuff swirling around with Izzy and her injury etc.
		
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Yes I need to buy some time. I'm overthinking things. Like with Deedee I suspect a solution will present itself! Though of course I can't ride her either now. The sharer can only do twice a week and she's another who needs riding very regularly. Argggh!


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

ihatework said:



			If you are looking for someone I can suggest someone suitable by PM - she has done similar for a couple of other amateur riders
		
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Yes please x


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## milliepops (20 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			Yes I need to buy some time. I'm overthinking things. Like with Deedee I suspect a solution will present itself! Though of course I can't ride her either now. The sharer can only do twice a week and she's another who needs riding very regularly. Argggh!
		
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well that's what I was thinking, I'm the same as you, I find myself in a situation and then start coming up with 2 million options in a flap. you'll get another 2 million suggestions here!  

I don't think you need to be thinking about parting with her permanently at this point, that's exactly what I mean about making decisions when you are still reeling.  If IHW's contact is available then that could be perfect and some good could come out of it all


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

Fiona said:



			I'm truly gutted for you AE....  Fionn is being very silly and bouncy at the moment, but his bucks and bounces are so far easy to sit to, so I just laugh.  Don't think I'd be still laughing if he had landed me in your situation though...

Do you have a pro in mind that you could send her to??

Fiona
		
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Yes Amber's bucks aren't funny! She is far too big and her back end it far too powerful!! But I can count the times she has bucked with me on one hand. She is not a bucker, rearer, spinner. At least she wasn't till now.

One trainer I have used in the past offered. But he's a strong man and the only time he has ever got on her he got off again quite quickly! She did not like the way he was riding her. He said she needs to tolerate bossing. But my usual RI who also events and has had her on holiday/schooling livery says she's a very sensitive mare and really would not suit someone who dictates too much. She needs effective but sympathetic riding or she'll refuse to co-operate. But what do I know? My belief in what we wee doing is pretty much gone.


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

ETA that trainer has no space or she'd be there already!


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## SamBean (20 January 2020)

Hi I'm in same area as you and do know someone who may be able to help you both and if you just want to chat to for now?  She's really good with rider confidence and helping you both as a team if you want to drop me a message?  I will state I'm not advertising and this lady is no personal connection to me!

Just so sorry you are in this position and hope you're not in too much pain and recovery quickly.


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

milliepops said:



			well that's what I was thinking, I'm the same as you, I find myself in a situation and then start coming up with 2 million options in a flap. you'll get another 2 million suggestions here! 

I don't think you need to be thinking about parting with her permanently at this point, that's exactly what I mean about making decisions when you are still reeling.  If IHW's contact is available then that could be perfect and some good could come out of it all 

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Yes this..... deep breath and no long term decision yet. I have decided I will send her to a pro. The question is to turn away for a couple of months first to save money and just in case her behaviour is caused by a niggle, to let things settle. Or send her now.


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## milliepops (20 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			Yes Amber's bucks aren't funny! She is far too big and her back end it far too powerful!! But I can count the times she has bucked with me on one hand. She is not a bucker, rearer, spinner. At least she wasn't till now.
		
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I think, from what you've said, that you have had one bad day? If she'd just pinged you off but not put you out of action, I think you'd be shaken but not totally losing faith in your partnership. Try and keep some perspective, think about how far the 2 of you have come since you got her. Don't let a bit of bad luck in how things turned out totally cloud your judgement.  I think it's good to be realistic about what you need now, but it's just chance that you ended up with a broken ankle rather than just bruised pride xx


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## milliepops (20 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			One trainer I have used in the past offered. But he's a strong man and the only time he has ever got on her he got off again quite quickly! She did not like the way he was riding her. He said she needs to tolerate bossing. But my usual RI who also events and has had her on holiday/schooling livery says she's a very sensitive mare and really would not suit someone who dictates too much. She needs effective but sympathetic riding or she'll refuse to co-operate.
		
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on this bit. different discipline but similar problem - Kira is a horse that you can't simply "boss". it causes her behaviour to escalate fast and that is not a good result for anyone. if you rode her in that confrontational way you would get told where to stick it, categorically.
I know, because I tried it. I was told to make her suck it up, but it was not the right thing, at ALL.
But she did need to learn to tolerate direction from her rider and to learn how to let herself be trainable without just taking over.

it's easier in dressage to cope with not really being in control because the consequences of exiting the arena by mistake are so much less than getting it wrong over fixed fences. but K really taught me a lot about real control, and it is possible to have that without the horse taking offense, you just have to be tactful while you teach it.  That doesnt mean backing down  though.
I won't say that she doesn't get one over me now and then (as per your other thread) but I have been able to teach her that she isn't permitted to dictate things to me, and that I am the one who chooses pace, direction, speed etc.  at the same time I learned how to de-escalate when things started to go wrong.  it's a never-ending process, I noticed yesterday that I'm getting bolted with in walk pirouettes again (how is that a thing?!) because she's been off games and I am not totally in control of her brain yet!  as I say, the consequences are much smaller but the root cause is the same.


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

I do know what running off in walk feels like!!!  Amber is quite good at that.
You are so right - it's about the brain. She might run with her feet but she chooses to run with her mind.


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## milliepops (20 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			I do know what running off in walk feels like!!!  Amber is quite good at that.
You are so right - it's about the brain. She might run with her feet but she chooses to run with her mind.
		
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yeah, and that's why I thought that if you can come back from this wobble yourself, and therefore don't just want to be an owner for the rest of time, you could look to get help from a pro from any discipline, who can install the mind-control bit for you in this period while you are off.
it wouldn't have to be an event rider then, it could be anyone who is a proper horseman.


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## Starzaan (20 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			Not enough turn out or not  enough work? Or both? Somerford has liveries who are all quality comp horses and they get 2-3 hours every other day in winter! A lot of competition yards seem to have very limited turnout.
		
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I would say a combination of both. I have managed competition yards where horses only get three to four hours of turnout a day. HOWEVER, they are worked twice a day, every day. Lunged, hacked or galloped one end of the day and then schooled or jumped the other end. 

If you aren’t exercising like this, and a horse is stood in for 21 hours that is a recipe for disaster. 

The reason someone above said that HHO will always come back saying not enough turnout, is that this is true. Most horse owners aren’t professional riders with all day on the yard, most have horses that fit in around other full time work so exercising this much isn’t feasible. 

Personally I wouldn’t keep my horse if I couldn’t ensure he had adequate turnout every day. When I opened my own yard I was amazed by how quickly I was full, with a waiting list, with most people saying that they made the move mostly because I offered turnout in small, same sex herds, 365 days a year, whatever the weather, in large, well drained fields with access to good shelter. I even had people moving before my school and facilities had been finished, just so they could get their horses turned out each day! 

I would still definitely turn away and give yourself a breather. With regard to moving lots, remember that competition horses move all over the world to compete regularly. We have a string of polo ponies who regularly go to Germany for the summer, or Spain for a few weeks in winter to play. As long as you have a strict routine and think of the horses best interests, moving shouldn’t be a drama. There are of course horses who simply don’t settle when moved, but these are rare. In all my time with horses and managing big yards, I have known only two.


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## JFTDWS (20 January 2020)

I'm sorry about the leg, that's rubbish   Although on a confidence note I think MP's statement that it's only bad luck that you got hurt - if you'd been pinged off and got back on uninjured you'd feel a lot better.

On the horse side of it, I agree with Starzaan.  I mean, of course I do - I'm one of the HHO-Is-Obsessed-By-Turnout-Mafia.  I get that I'm a broken record, but I do think it makes a difference.  Limited turnout works if you really (really, really) work horses - mentally and physically.  And how much work they require depends on the horse - some will cope with normal schooling / hacking / riding, but some (and I think Amber falls into this category) are just too busy and confident in their own assessment of life to cope without serious work.  A good pro could really install some sense, but I'd always look to management to make an easier horse.

Am I right in thinking this is the first year you've kept her with more limited turnout?  I feel like I read a thread about you moving her to a yard with Deedee (who's situation is a little different, she's a weirdo!) but maybe I'm imagining it?


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## SEL (20 January 2020)

Starzaan said:



			I would say a combination of both. I have managed competition yards where horses only get three to four hours of turnout a day. HOWEVER, they are worked twice a day, every day. Lunged, hacked or galloped one end of the day and then schooled or jumped the other end.
		
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AE - I missed that you'd had a nasty fall. Really sorry to hear this and I hope you fix quickly.

In addition to what Starzaan has said I found when I used the facilities of a local competition yard that all the yard riders were young, thought the acrobatics were good fun and generally bounced when they hit the deck. I'd usually be found hiding down the other end of their school wondering what brand of super glue they had on their bottoms and feeling my age. I'm not sure those of us with normal lives and jobs can really give a horse that kind of exercise.

You mentioned your RI has had Amber before for training? Would she / could she take her again while you are off? You'd have the advantage then of someone who knows you and your horse.


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## be positive (20 January 2020)

I agree re less turnout and that possibly being the trigger but this mare has been on the edge and taking too much control, even in walk, when living out 24/7 which is why I feel some time with a pro learning the basics, not that she needs to go back to them for long, will be the way forward, she needs a sympathetic rider but one with very clear ideas about what is, or is not acceptable.
I suspect 6 weeks with the right person would see a very different Amber come back, some seriously hard work with clear boundaries should make her an easier ride, most horses are actually happier with a rider making more decisions for them , this does not need to be bullying/ dominant/ strong just clear minded and disciplined.


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

SEL said:



			You mentioned your RI has had Amber before for training? Would she / could she take her again while you are off? You'd have the advantage then of someone who knows you and your horse.
		
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She's full unfortunately. That would have been ideal!


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## Cortez (20 January 2020)

If the exercise and work are appropriate and any of mine start titting about, I cut the feed, sometimes drastically.


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## Asha (20 January 2020)

In your shoes id send her to RL event team in Sandbach. Both very good riders and both teach a lot of amateurs so wouldn't 'hot her up to much ' Plus you would be able to carry on with lessons with them both afterwards,and once you are back on board in theory you could do some smaller stuff to get your confidence up, and they could do some bigger stuff to give her some more miles on the clock. If at the end of it they thought she was too much for you, they would tell you. Both very straight forward to deal with.


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## NinjaPony (20 January 2020)

Nothing much to add to the good advice already given other than you are not alone!! Reduced turnout, bad weather and limited riding are hitting us all, one way or another and it's really very difficult to get it right at the moment. My 18 year old connemara is coming back into work and disgraced himself on Friday hacking out, spending most of it jogging or bouncing, and then having a meltdown at the same place he had a previous meltdown-never occurred to me he might remember the incident after 2 months...! It hits the confidence and makes it much tougher to grit your teeth and carry on.

In your position, I would definitely get a pro involved, even just to hack out and school from your yard. Over the years I have done this many times for different reasons and it always helps both me and the horse out. Hope you heal smoothly!


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## Michen (20 January 2020)

OMG AE you poor thing!

For those saying 4/5 hours turnout etc is not enough, how many competition horses get even less that that!? Or on the continent where even leisure horses have next to none?

I assume you aren't having the ankle pinned? Tricky as when I did mine they pinned it which meant I could get up and around on it very quickly and that meant a super quick recovery as I was almost immediately doing physio (my own version.. aka riding  ).

If you can afford it I think I'd send her on schooling livery for that time rather than rough her off personally.

ETA for what its worth Boggle hasn't exploded for about 2 years, but at the moment feels the closest he's ever come to doing so (without actually doing it)... I'm having to make the rules seriously crystal clear to him and there is for the first time in a long time a little seed of doubt as to whether he will actually follow through on his hot air. Think they are all loopy at the moment!


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## Wheels (20 January 2020)

Michen said:



			For those saying 4/5 hours turnout etc is not enough, how many competition horses get even less that that!? Or on the continent where even leisure horses have next to none?
		
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Well as ever it depends on the horse! If a horse copes on that then all well and good but if they are boiling over and injuring their rider as a result then it is something to be considered.

My ridden horse couldn't really care less whether he has 1 or 23 hours a day out in the field or anywhere in between. One of my previous horses just could not cope with being stabled at all so he lived out 24/7 except for one short stint of box rest.

For some horses it is the lack of physical interaction rather than the lack of field turnout that can put them in a stressful situation and makes them difficult to handle, this should also be considered and I think amber went from turnout in a herd to pairs (is that right AE?).  That can have a bigger impact than people realise


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## oldie48 (20 January 2020)

*Preview*


Rose had a meltdown last Monday although she had to cope with dire weather conditions and noisy builders, the real reason was that she'd not been ridden for three days, I hadn't cut her feed down and I'd not turned her out that morning because I didn't want to scrape mud off her before travelling down to AM and she is pretty fit ATM. If you can work out what went wrong on Sunday with Amber, you might find it helps.It was really bad luck that you got injured and i'm not surprised it's knocked your confidence but don't rush to make any decisions, give yourself a bit of time. Limited turnout for busy energetic horses like Amber can create a few problems, I think i'd worry that if she got enough hard work to keep her happy she might end up too fit, OK for a pro rider but not necessarily for everyone. You've had loads of really helpful posts, I hope they help you to see the way forward. TBH I'd probably go for turning away and then sending to a good pro rider to bring back into work, someone who recognises what you need from your horse who you can then work with to regain your confidence. Sending a hug, it's rotten luck and definitely  not what you wanted with Izzy etc Bloody horses!


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## Mule (20 January 2020)

Poor you, you must be sore
Management wise, I'd take her off all hard food. Perhaps a pro could work at getting her listening rather than riding in a way that gets her fitter. If they could recreate situations where she can be difficult that would be helpful.


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## TheMule (20 January 2020)

My horse is full of it right now and she lives out, it's partly a January thing.
But, you make the explosion more likely when you start cooping them up for hours so unless you commit to working them hard enough and getting them out the box on the walker/ hand grazing/ whatever as well.
 I had a horse who couldn't go out in the winter much as he wouldn’t wear a rug in the field and needed clipping to get ready for Spring Intermediates, he had to be managed really carefully and it was the only time he would ever be generically naughty with bucking etc.


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## AnShanDan (20 January 2020)

What an unfortunate injury, def. a bit of bad luck! Lots of really sensible ideas from people. I find that sometimes this kind of thing can actually end up being a positive, that's what I'd try to turn it into anyway. It's a great opportunity to have a rethink and get someone else on board, then hopefully get going again in the spring with better weather etc. At least it's you that's injured not your horse


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## DiNozzo (20 January 2020)

Might be worth next time you have an extended break from exciting things (winter's hard!) getting a pro on to do her 'firsts' each season? Maybe first XC training, gallops and comp?

Get the explosions of 'OMG THIS IS SO MUCH FUN!!!' out of the way and get back on her when she's just cheerful?


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## ycbm (20 January 2020)

They can certainly change when fit.  I had a mare who was a saint when less fit and a spooky little madam when eventing.

Really sorry to hear about your injury     That must be physically painful and mentally very upsetting  after all your progress. If I can help in any way that doesn't include riding Amber, I'm too old for that sharpness now 😆, let me know. 

.


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## sportsmansB (20 January 2020)

Oh dear I am sorry AE 
I evented my hot mare off the field, she didnt stay in at all. That made it much easier. Would you have the option to turn her away until you are operational again and then keep her somewhere you could have her out 24/7? If shes fit now and you're off 10 weeks but shes out all the time, she'd be ready to go again at 90/100 after prob 6-8 weeks if she finds it easy anyway. 
If needs be then you could basically just chuck her on hols from the end of the season until the light nights come back and not even try and ride at this time of year. Its not great for your practicing but you do progress much faster on a horse that isn't wired to the moon so you might end up in the same place anyway... and you have others to practice on 
Its up to you ref a pro- you need ot be sure it is the right person and you are able / happy to put the money into it.


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## PaddyMonty (20 January 2020)

Bum bum bum! Not good news. Just wish I lived closer to you, problem solved 
A couple of thoughts....
 If you turn her away for a few months just be careful you don't bring her back in to work close to spring grass time.
If you send her to a pro be very VERY careful who it is and what they do with her. Check on her very regularly.


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## Abi90 (20 January 2020)

I have no extra advice but just wanted to say I’m sorry to hear that your hurt yourself and hope you recover quickly xx


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## Ambers Echo (20 January 2020)

JFTDWS - you didnt imagine it, yes I moved Amber to join 'please put me back in my stable' Deedee. Before that Amber had a lot of turn out. But before _that_ she was on a show jumping yard with almost no turn out. I persuaded my YO to let my 3 go on a hill no one used as they considered it too risky for horses - steep and rocky - but totally fine as far as I was concerned. They had a lovely time on their hill till YO changed her mind and she had to come in. She also had several weeks of box rest in the summer. She likes turn out but never seemed overly bothered even she doesn't get it. But who knows what is going on internally.


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## Northern (20 January 2020)

Oh AE, I feel for you :/ I hope you recover well.

I think sending her to a pro is a good idea, and I think she is one that would benefit to be worked hard (mentally/physically) every day. The issue with that, is that she would need to continue to be worked at that level when she comes home - I think you probably acknowledge that. I think turning her away for 6 weeks first isn't a bad idea, 24/7 spelling off feed might bring her down off her pedestal a bit. Is there anyone who can ride her a few times before she is turned away, if that is what you choose? It wouldn't sit well with me for her to be turned away without a few rides where rider stays on, if she were my horse. 

Good luck with what you choose, you really have been in the wars with Izzy and now this. Too bad I am on the other side of the world, she sounds right up my (hot chestnut mare) alley. I wouldn't think of selling her just yet, I think you have the ability and mindset to learn how to ride her. It might just take some time. Chin up and big hugs from Aus


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## VRIN (20 January 2020)

Sorry to hear your news and hope you recover quickly. FWIW, this time last year my sane and sensible horse completely changed character at Somerford - even though he had been there on several occasions before. It was so extreme I was told it couldn't possibly have been the first time he had behaved like that and he was potentially dangerous - neither of which was true.

I think there is so much going on there - its a very busy place these days and I think in the right circumstances it can just blow their brains. 

Don't make any hasty decisions - you will still be shook up and it takes a while to get your perspective back.


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## daffy44 (20 January 2020)

I'm really sorry you got hurt, I dont know you or your horse well enough to suggest what to do, but I can give you some general observations.

I think MP is so right, if this fall hadnt really hurt you, would you feel differently about your future with Amber?  Sometimes whether you do or dont break something is just a matter of luck, it makes it so much harder if you do really hurt yourself as you have way too much time to overthink everything, whereas if you just a bit of a bruise you'd be back on her the next day to continue working together.

I do think as horses get older, fitter, stronger and more experienced they know what to expect more, and whilst they may settle better as the season progresses, a few of the "firsts" (eg first xc school, first fast work etc) can often be way more exuberant.

As for turn out, I am also a fan of lots of turn out, or living out if it suits the horse better, but even so, it really depends on the individual horse as to whether it makes a difference to their energy levels.  It s of course true that lots of pro horses only have minimal turn out, couple of hours a day, but the difference is that they are generally worked at a much harder level, and by a much stronger, more experienced rider than the average rider, and even then you may well find they get out of their stables more than you might think.

All I would suggest for you at this difficult time is not to rush into anything whilst you are upset.  I hope you heal quickly and find a solution that works well for you and Amber.


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## Boulty (21 January 2020)

Personally would say turn her away for a few months holiday whilst you get started on healing (which may take longer than you think).   When you’ve a better idea of when you’ll realistically be back on your feet then send her for schooling as you’re then more likely to be able to have the benefit of climbing back onboard whilst it’s all fresh in her mind rather than potentially having to pay for a longer stay than needed or still ending up turning away if you have complications with your leg


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## Michen (21 January 2020)

Just had a thought whilst riding boggle this am. Have you been hacking her much? I know you don’t like it but wonder if she’s having not much turnout and then only ever going in the school whether she’s just got slightly frustrated.
I think Boggle would be a demon if he didn’t have a good blast/hack at weekends..


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## Ambers Echo (21 January 2020)

I have been hacking her but only in walk/trot! So although she seems to enjoy getting out, it is a long way off a 'good blast'. I think in future I need to pay someone to hack her once  a week. Though I do take her places like farm rides, gallops quite often. But not every week.


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## Ambers Echo (21 January 2020)

VRIN said:



			I think there is so much going on there - its a very busy place these days and I think in the right circumstances it can just blow their brains.
		
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They were shooting there too. Could clearly hear the shots from the arena. I doubt that helped.


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## HufflyPuffly (21 January 2020)

Hmm the hacking comments could be the missing bit, Skylla went a bit nuts in Dec, throwing shapes and running off with me, both of which were super out of character! She's a very buzzy, quick horse but has always been polite and snaffled mouthed. I took her to the woods, trotted and cantered the whole way round and she was changed horse for the better again, since then I've been making sure she has a good blast out hacking at least once a week to keep her sane.

I do think its always a balance for us hobby riders, turnout vs fitness vs sanity! 

Topaz took years to accept limited turnout (8 hours was considered limited to her ) and was always a complete devil in winter, she also couldn't be 'too' fit, she has never really been fed hard feed either . Even when in full work, working towards PSG she got no hard feed and as much turnout as I could give her, as I am restricted by my working day so I couldn't physically work her enough to keep her sane otherwise, which would also have been a viscous cycle of upping her fitness which would have meant she needed more work .

I think this is an unfortunate blip that was even more unlucky to have resulted in injury , I'd echo the others and say not to make too many conclusions right now. Turn her away or get a pro on-board, but get yourself healed and then go from there. When I bust my collarbone on Topaz I was a little concerned about my confidence when I got back on and she is defo not easy, but thankfully I was fine about it, though it did lead us to the dark side of dressage !


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## oldie48 (21 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			They were shooting there too. Could clearly hear the shots from the arena. I doubt that helped.
		
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Pretty sure that would be enough to set her off if she's not used to hearing shooting. IME sound is more likely to get a strong reaction than something they can see.


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## be positive (21 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			I have been hacking her but only in walk/trot! So although she seems to enjoy getting out, it is a long way off a 'good blast'. I think in future I need to pay someone to hack her once  a week. Though I do take her places like farm rides, gallops quite often. But not every week.
		
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I m sure this is part of the problem, apart from when she is in the field the only time she gets the chance to stretch out and go really forward, that does not mean at gallop as a long trot up a steep hill can be just as beneficial to get the sting out of them, is when she gets on grass for a xc school or similar, finding someone to hack her properly for at least an hour every week could make a big difference to her attitude in general.


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## Michen (21 January 2020)

Sounds like she’s been hacking less than once a week albeit hacking occasional in walk and trot? Think that may be a big part of the problem. I do think most event type horses would struggle with that and 4/5 hours turnout.


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## nikicb (21 January 2020)

I don't really have anything to add to all the suggestions above, but I didn't want to read and run.  Sorry to hear about your fall, it's really not come at a good time especially with the Deedee/Izzy scenario, but I hope you work something out.  Good luck!  xx


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## ScampiBigMan (21 January 2020)

I echo all the suggestions not to make hasty decisions and take time to let things settle after the weekend. Alot of it is bad luck of coming off and then getting injured.

Have had horses across a range of sharpness. The ones at the lower end of the range, I would keep in the night before an event to ensure complete rest and more energy the folllowing day. Phoenix is top end and she lives out 24/7 in a small herd of 4 (at home), she quite often spends 30min the morning of an event galloping around jumping the stream before I catch her - she is still (super) full of energy and enthusiasm at Novice level eventing. She only stables when we are stabling away at an event /for lessons and I always work her on arrival to help her settle (she is fine stabled away and settles in well). She would be a handful if stabled even during (just) winter at night. Being out 24/7 keeps her mind occupied and calmer. She is always super keen and ready to go, we bounce everywhere  - and she bounces alot in the field even with 24/7 turnout!

Yes, she has become sharper and sharper when first take her out cantering /in the box /SJ (schooling or competing) /XC (schooling or competing) and she is quite wild at the first event of the season (and if she has a few months in between events during the season) but I get her focussed and working and she settles into working (and I know her better every year too which is a big help). Reilee also has become sharper at the 'firsts' each subsequent year as she knows (it all!). Again the key is to get moving forward, focussed and between hand and leg. 

Have not seen you both in the flesh so can only relay my first hand experiences with a very sharp and keen horse. Living out 24/7 is key as is lots of varied hacking incorporating canter (range of pace) and hills - we tend to only walk on the road. She gets limited hard feed for her working level and I do it based on condition and behaviour /performance. It is more about her mind than her body, even when eventing Novice /Intermediate she only works 3 or 4 times a week (1 to 1.5 hrs each time) and max. of 2 of those will be schooling flat /jump in the field. I like her fierce independence and ability to think for herself - it makes her the machine she is XC, I have to manage her for her to be trainable and rideable (for me!).  I would not want her any more explosive than she is on her current regime, I can make it work *for *us at current levels. As have said previously, I am sure that it was the first 6 months with her at 4, living out 24/7 and doing lots and lots of hacking alone (we had company for approx. the first 5 hacks with someone else riding another one of my horses) over the mountain tracks and getting her to settle and relax enough to have a loose rein without taking off, that was key. She needed to dial down her level of excitement for everyday life to become manageable every day and particularly when there was something more exciting happening (like any outing in the horsebox). Am sure a pro would have taken her much further than me already but I enjoy having (huge) fun riding her and she seems to love it here!

I think the key question is whether you want to remain Amber's main rider every day and at competitions long term. If the answer is yes then work back from that to determine options of how to get there, resist any apparent quick fixes that might actually make her less suitable for you long term. Am sure many pros and semi-pros would love to have a go with her but that doesn't make it right for you or her. Good luck with whatever you decide and remember that riding is only a (small) part of our relationship with our horses (as lowly P/T amateurs - hope you don't mind that description ).


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## flying_high (21 January 2020)

milliepops said:



			HHO will always come back and say not enough turnout 
Mine are getting about 3 hours a day at the moment and it certainly makes for lively rides, I do really try and work them every day to make up for the time spent in the stable.  this is the best I can do in my area, most places randomly close fields for a week at a time, at least with this regime they go out every single day in winter.

But I would try and get more work into her if she was mine - this is fine to say after the event and doesn't help you now though!
		
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Mine has about 4 hours, about 6 days a week over winter (in when very wet for land to drain). It's not ideal but  am lucky enough to be close to yard and work.

I make a huge effort to keep him busy and active - groundwork / in hand grazing / polework / long forward hacks over hills and turf / long reining / in hand work / lunging / TRT work / Sure foot pads / massage rugs etc.

I aim to get him out of the stable 2-3 times every day, to do something.

And I don't think he minds the limited turnout too much. 

But it only works for us, as yard is 10 minutes from work and I have only him, and he's on livery, so I can dedicate the time to keeping him active.


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## flying_high (21 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			She's full unfortunately. That would have been ideal!
		
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Might she have a future space? Maybe turn away, and wait for the next space? If she's the right person, knows Amber, and knows you, it might be worth waiting for?


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## flying_high (21 January 2020)

Michen said:



			Sounds like she’s been hacking less than once a week albeit hacking occasional in walk and trot? Think that may be a big part of the problem. I do think most event type horses would struggle with that and 4/5 hours turnout.
		
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Possibly the lack of forward hacking to let of steam as stated above, and what size field is she in, and is it large enough and dry enough with friends in it, for a good gallop round and play session? 

I think decent hacking - moving really forwards over varied terrain is really important, ideally 2-3 times a week for some horses. Do you not have access to decent hacking for cantering straight from the yard?

It might be that she needs a decent forwards canter once a week to let off steam, which could maybe be arranged.


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## Ambers Echo (21 January 2020)

flying_high said:



			Might she have a future space? Maybe turn away, and wait for the next space? If she's the right person, knows Amber, and knows you, it might be worth waiting for?
		
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She's full till mid April. I'm hoping to be back  on board myself by then but if not yes I'd consider using her then.


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## Ambers Echo (21 January 2020)

I have the beginnings of a plan..... I've contacted a few pros and prices are all similar. I can't afford for her to be with a pro for weeks on end so I'm planning on sending her away in about a month. The retirement livery place does not turn them out. It's a barn type arrangement with a 'rolling patch' - well that is even less turn out than she gets with me! My yo is allowing her out more, she's off all hard feed and I've arranged for her to be hacked out fast twice a week. Plus a friend whose horse is lame will ride her too. It will have to do for now. Hopefully I'll be able to lunge her before too long.....


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## ycbm (21 January 2020)

Asha said:



			In your shoes id send her to RL event team in Sandbach. Both very good riders and both teach a lot of amateurs so wouldn't 'hot her up to much ' Plus you would be able to carry on with lessons with them both afterwards,and once you are back on board in theory you could do some smaller stuff to get your confidence up, and they could do some bigger stuff to give her some more miles on the clock. If at the end of it they thought she was too much for you, they would tell you. Both very straight forward to deal with.
		
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I second these guys. I've watched them take a friend who was being bucked off her four/five year old and really quite scared of him up to consistently qualifying for Badminton grass roots. She based the horse with them for while, they schooled it, competed it to prove to her it could do it, and taught her how to ride it, (and it can be tricky).

They're near Middlewich, AE, probably no more than an hour from you.

It would be a good choice for when you feel ready to start eventing again.


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## ester (21 January 2020)

fwiw frank has very very rarely scared me, he's one of life's good eggs whatever my mum says .
I had to call mum to come and lead him off the fields we were on because we had ended up closer to them clay shooting than we would be normally (so he's not totally unaware usually) and I couldn't get him back past and that's the only way home.


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## GG13 (21 January 2020)

If you want to keep her in work rather than turning away, could you speak to your instructor/horsey friends and see if they know of a competent amateur who would be willing to keep her ticking over until a pro has space? Or even have her for the season if the got on well enough. Would be cheaper than a pro too. 
I’m definitely not a pro but have taken on horses for a couple of people. Worked well both times. 
Just another option to consider


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## JFTDWS (21 January 2020)

One of the main reasons Fergus is ludicrous to hack alone (or rather, was ludicrous and remains daft) is because on his first ever solo hack we walked into a shoot, got stuck, he lost his mind and flipped over twice (I had decided discretion was the better part of valour and dismounted, led him onto a ploughed field).  Shooting still sends him bonkers.  I wouldn't under-estimate the effects of a shoot, especially if it's not normal for her to experience shooting at close quarters.


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## blodwyn1 (21 January 2020)

How long to recover depends on several things. Are you weight bearing, in plaster or air boot? I was in plaster 12 weeks and had to learn to weight bear again. All my muscle in my leg had wasted. 6 months on I am just able to sit on my pony but dismounting is very difficult.


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## Trouper (21 January 2020)

It is very hard to know what to do for the best when you are still suffering from the shock and pain of an accident so if you can take a few more days to decide it might help.  My instinct tells me that a pro putting her through her paces and getting/keeping her fit might result in your taking back a full-on Amber that you were not fit and ready for yourself?  I would also not want to put her through another move so my Plan A would be to try and find someone to do lots of "boring" hacking with her enough to keep her physically tired but not mentally excited - sort of back to school stuff - with as much turnout as you can manage.  It may not be the easiest option I realise.
And please don't forget yourself in all this - I can thoroughly recommend Vit C with Zinc for healing and Comfrey for the bones as well!!!!!  As soon as you are able -  into a pool to begin building your muscles back up - At 71 my torn hip tendon responded quickly enough on this regime for even the physios to be impressed.!!!  Good luck.


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## Skib (21 January 2020)

So sorry to read all this Amber. And yes do take care of yourself as well as uyour girls and do all the doctors tell you to.


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## Upthecreek (21 January 2020)

First of all best wishes for a speedy recovery. Loads of good ideas about what to do with Amber both in the short and longer term. I’ve enjoyed reading your posts since I joined the forum and I really hope this doesn’t knock your confidence too much because you always sound right on the edge of thinking you’re not a good enough rider for Amber. From everything I’ve read about you and Amber I think you will have to make some changes in her management going forward if you are to have a successful partnership. My horse is a different type to Amber and he is nowhere near competition fit but if he was only having 4 hours turnout a day and not getting out hacking for a good blast every weekend he would virtually unrideable. I think sometimes we have to be very honest about what we enjoy/feel comfortable doing with our horses and if this isn’t compatible with the horse we have we need to question what compromises can be made to keep everyone happy. I know you don’t particularly enjoy hacking, so you probably don’t do it too often, but maybe that’s what Amber needs to help her to be calmer and more focussed when you’re out and about. I’m the opposite to you and don’t enjoy schooling, though it’s a necessary evil in winter on dark evenings. After the clocks change I have to force myself to school, but I don’t do it as often as I should because hacking is my preference. I just think it’s all a question of balance and finding out what makes your horse tick (but not like an unexploded bomb!)


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## Ambers Echo (22 January 2020)

@oldie48 @milliepops  thanks for your reply on Oldies thread. To answer some of the musings:

It was a group lesson but we got warming up immediately. She chucked me off in the warm up with a 3-4 stride acceleration surge then a weird sort of leap forward followed by play buck. Like I see her do in the field but has never yet done with a passenger. So I got back on completed the warm up without mishap though she was clearly very fresh but then and came off again during the first line of jumps, over-jumping the 3rd or 4th jump and then shooting sideways on landing.

So triggers;
Cold day
Busy arena
Increased feed as she has dropped weight recently. Added in a bit of oil to her link mash.
Limited turn out. 

BUT none of that  is new. I have ridden her in far, far worse conditions - gales etc. She has always been fed quite a lot as she drops easily. And turn out has also been restricted in the past. She had been worked the Thursday (2 days before) and was foot perfect jumping in spooky, windy arena. Had the dentist the day before so  was not  ridden but it was a routine appointment and no reason to think there would be any problem after that.

But I have had lively rides in those scenarios! So maybe all of that made her near the edge and the shooting sent her over it. I was not really paying any attention to it so I can't swear a shot set her off but each episode did feel like it could have been triggered by something. 

But as BP said in her post on my thread - Amber has looked and felt on the edge a few times and actually she needs to not be so close to an explosion in future. I have just assumed she gets fresh but never loses it. Now I am not so sure.


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## Ambers Echo (22 January 2020)

blodwyn1 said:



			How long to recover depends on several things. Are you weight bearing, in plaster or air boot? I was in plaster 12 weeks and had to learn to weight bear again. All my muscle in my leg had wasted. 6 months on I am just able to sit on my pony but dismounting is very difficult.
		
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That's sounds like a long and painful process. Hope you improve soon.


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## Ambers Echo (22 January 2020)

Skib said:



			So sorry to read all this Amber. And yes do take care of yourself as well as uyour girls and do all the doctors tell you to.
		
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I definitely will be sensible. The last thing I want is to delay long term recovery by being too impatient, and Amber is a horse you have to ride dynamically - as in off her back, in light seat, balancing over my feet when she jumps etc. She is not one I can just sit on and let carry me. I feel like I need to be fully fit and strong before I  ride her again.


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## blodwyn1 (22 January 2020)

My pony has been kept going by my instructor riding twice a week and 24/7 turnout. I have had to employ a freelancer as I also have two retired ponies.My husband has also been amazing. My injuries were worse than yours as I was knocked out and dragged. In total even though I am retired the accident has cost me thousands including a stair lift and automatic car! It was completely out of character for the pony. I considered sending her to a producer but I didn't want a supercharged pony back!


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## Ambers Echo (22 January 2020)

Just had a text from  Amber's rider who has hacked her today. First time out since Somerford and that was only a 10 minute (if rather energetic) workout. She said she was good as gold and hacked happily on the buckle out and back. Which I am obviously very pleased about. But equally feeling very useless as recently she has been spooky/fresh with me on hacks. It is clearly me! Nowt wrong with the horse!!


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## Ambers Echo (22 January 2020)

blodwyn1 that sounds awful.


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## Ambers Echo (22 January 2020)

I've just heard Deedee was relaxed and angelic today too.  Long may it last for both of them!


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## blodwyn1 (22 January 2020)

My ginger ninja! Butter wouldnt melt!


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## ScampiBigMan (22 January 2020)

Probably a combination of factors as suggested above. I have found that I need to work the v sharp horses the day before I take them out in the horsebox - usually a 45 min to 1 hr hack out including some decent canter and hills (mind again rather than body). Otherwise they are potentially going to be too explosive (for me) when I take them out in the horsebox (which is always more stimulating for them whatever else is going on). The regime 2 to 3 days before an outing is something I try to figure out early on and adjust as reqd. For the current two:

R gets ridden 2 days out and has the day before off (any more than one day rest before an outing and she would be becoming potentially explosive initially)
Nix, if in regular work, gets the 2 days out day off then ridden the day before

So for our (private, flatwork) arena hire on Mon:

R was ridden Sat - incl. decent cantering and hills (off Fri and Sun) and was pretty sharp at the start on Mon
Nix was ridden Sat (q a long hack with plenty of hills & good cantering) and Sun (easier hack but still with a decent canter and hills) and she was still quite explosive at the start on Mon particularly with the unexpected air brakes next door and hidden by trees, added in

Neither have been out in the horsebox since mid Oct so expected them to be quite excited by the outing (which they were) and it was a lovely frosty, bright day. They are not v fit yet and have given them only partial clips.

I will change things up as need to and sometimes I can't work Nix the day before (e.g. due to my work or taking R out the day before), then I know she may be more explosive as a result and need more managing when I get on. She just cannot contain her energy at times, allowing her forwards and helping her direct the energy and stop her mind bubbling over is what works with her (what this looks like varies according to the specific situation).

Take care of yourself and look forward to enjoying another great season this year with all your horses


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## Upthecreek (22 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			Just had a text from  Amber's rider who has hacked her today. First time out since Somerford and that was only a 10 minute (if rather energetic) workout. She said she was good as gold and hacked happily on the buckle out and back. Which I am obviously very pleased about. But equally feeling very useless as recently she has been spooky/fresh with me on hacks. It is clearly me! Nowt wrong with the horse!!
		
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Turn that into a positive..... by the time you are recovered Amber will have done lots of hacking so will be more relaxed, meaning you will enjoy it more so will do it more often 😃


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## Ambers Echo (22 January 2020)

I am determined to hack more when I'm back on board. That was part of the reason for moving after all. Hacking is great around me know so I just have to get on with it.


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## Mule (22 January 2020)

I might be shot down for this but if you need a bit of security when you get back on board, draw reins are useful for control with tanking and bucking. In case you feel a bit apprehensive, it's an option. You don't need to do anything with them unless the horse starts taking the p*ss. Think of it as a security blanket.


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## EllenJay (22 January 2020)

mule said:



			I might be shot down for this but if you need a bit of security when you get back on board, draw reins are useful for control with tanking and bucking. In case you feel a bit apprehensive, it's an option. You don't need to do anything with them unless the horse starts taking the p*ss. Think of it as a security blanket.
		
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No shooting down from me - sometimes you need to give the rider a security blanket, and if draw reins work - far better that constant pulling on the horses mouth.


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## EllenJay (22 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			I am determined to hack more when I'm back on board. That was part of the reason for moving after all. Hacking is great around me know so I just have to get on with it.
		
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Can you borrow a safe hacking horse to get back your confidence?  I do find it very bizarre that riders will happily go XC over horrible scarey fences, but are not confident doing nice relaxed hacks.  You are not the only one!  I know a few riders with that mindset.  So, whilst you get Amber some professional help, could you work on getting some confidence help hacking.  Wish you were closer to me, would happily throw you onboard my boy, who is a complete hacking Saint (far too boring for you long term) but will give you so much confidence, whilst giving you a lovely forward ride.


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## Ambers Echo (22 January 2020)

I used to hack very happily. I was bolted with several years ago when we came across a shoot unexpectedly. I had my feet out of the stirrups ready to bail out before we got to the main road! Never liked it since then. I can make myself do it but I hate the unpredictability of a hack.


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## oldie48 (23 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			I am determined to hack more when I'm back on board. That was part of the reason for moving after all. Hacking is great around me know so I just have to get on with it.
		
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I find going with someone I totally trust really helps, someone whom I know will be able to deal with the unexpected. I used to hack with my daughter who was a fab nanny, sadly no longer available!


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## DressageCob (23 January 2020)

If you're still trying to think of options, there is a guy near me (near Delamere forest) who is a racehorse trainer/rider. He has his own gallops and hacks in Delamere forest. I know loads of people who have sent their horses to him for rehab or exercise and he has consistently rave reviews. PM me if you want his details


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## zaminda (23 January 2020)

Sorry to hear about your accident, sounds like a very bad day! That's the problem as an adult, the repercussions of being injured are far worse.
Couple of things I have realised over the years of owning both incredibly sharp horses, and those for who I was last chance saloon.
1. Sometimes you have to accept them being lighter than you would like in the winter, as they are unrideable on more food.
2. Some horses will need to live on calmer
3. Some horses love being stabled, others would be dangerous not kept 'just so'
4. Sometimes, its best to give them the winter out in the field on holiday if you can't mange everything
5. Lunging before riding can be a thing, even when your horse is 20
I am mainly very lucky with mine.  The arabs are the same sharp mares they always are, regardless of when they were last ridden, although Mindy is distinctly less strong when not fit. Maisy is probably worse when fit, and is only ever fed releve when doing  A LOT of work, and comes off it rapidly when work less, even if just a few days.
Winnie came to me, as she went from being borderline to seriously nasty when kept with limited turnout. She basically stood on her back legs and stayed there, sadly that is a thing with her. Herd turnout on 20 acres helps, and she is now fairly good. Again is sharper when fitter, but always an angel away from home.
My friends anglo is frankly barking mad. She is lighter than maybe ideal, and looks like a racehorse. If she has time off, lunge before riding is a certainty. She is safe ish at the gallops, but she ran backwards very fast at RC and nearly fell over. It wasn't the first time! She never sees exciting food, and would kill someone if stabled. She lives on calmer, and peptonil, as she tends to ulcers. Her saddle has to be 'just so' and her back is done regularly as she self harms on an epic level. She has improved with age, she is now 20.
What I am getting at, is that some horses need micro managing. We make sure this horse is not too fit if she can't do much, and manage how she returns to work with exceptional care.
In your circumstances I would be looking for the root cause, you have had her long enough to know her normal behaviour, and this sounds out of the ordinary, although she may just have benefitted from being lunged before going on the lorry!
Hope you have a speedy recovery.


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## flying_high (23 January 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			I used to hack very happily. I was bolted with several years ago when we came across a shoot unexpectedly. I had my feet out of the stirrups ready to bail out before we got to the main road! Never liked it since then. I can make myself do it but I hate the unpredictability of a hack.
		
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My hacking fear is falling off. (Though horse tripping is a close second). 

For me hacking armed with a RS-Tor and an over sized hunting breastplate has helped massively. 

Both options can be used or not used as and when needed. And I can chose to hold the R-Stor and use the reins totally normally. Or if galloping and positioned forward out of saddle, I can have a hand on the breastplate for extra security and stability. 

I am also asthmatic, and if something (e.g. recent chest infection) flares up the asthma, a bit wobbly riding at speed , so massively helps keep me safe.


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## Ambers Echo (23 January 2020)

Good ideas Zaminda and FH. Thanks x


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## Ambers Echo (30 January 2020)

For anyone interested, having discovered at fracture clinic that one of the fractures was old - done in the summer - and that I will heal quite quickly, I have moved Amber to a pro. In the end I've gone with a guy called Harry Moran. He was a working pupil at Somerford on Andy Heffernan's yard for 5 years and has just recently set up on his own. Offering discounted livery while he is growing his business as his yard is not yet full. Only opened 2 weeks ago. I've seen him ride at demos at Somerford and he is a lovely, quiet rider and near enough to me for me to visit regularly.  AND she can have plenty of turn out. Most of the people I have spoken to don't have turn out. Fingers crossed it all works out. He will take her to Somerford too which I am pleased with as I want someone else to ride her there before I do again.


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## McFluff (30 January 2020)

Sounds like a good solution, hope you heal quickly and can get back to where you were quickly. You’ve worked so hard, hopefully your base relationship will help you more than you think. 

Calming cookies may help (you!) for the first couple of faster rides. I found them really helpful - and am perfectly happy to accept that it was probably me they helped rather than the horse!


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## JFTDWS (30 January 2020)

Sounds great - hope it works out!


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## Ambers Echo (31 January 2020)

JFTDWS said:



			Sounds great - hope it works out!
		
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I hope so too. His brief is to make her more biddable and rideable and to set her up for me which he apparently is very good at. Fingers crossed.


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## Ambers Echo (3 February 2020)

So Harry has been riding Amber. Says her saddle no longer fits and the flocking on the right is too flat/ air has leaked out and is hurting her. Which is making her grumpy and would explain her behaviour. I had it checked recently too! After Somerford I got a physio out, she had just had her teeth done and I was considering ulcers. Did not think tack/back. Feeling foolish but relieved. She has never been shy about expressing herself so I think it is a recent problem.

He has her in his own very expensive Equipe and she is sweet as a nut now. Overall he can see what I mean about her rushing fences - she wants to run but he is making her wait and she needs to learn how to do that. Familiar story! I've been trying to teach her that for years!! But overall he says she is a talented mare with a good work ethic. But sensitive and expressive if something is bothering her. I am feeling optimistic that things will be ok......


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## HufflyPuffly (3 February 2020)

It's been a good news sort of day then, glad it was something minor with her even if it didn't end up minor for you!


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## Asha (3 February 2020)

What a relief for you ! you can pick up equipes second hand, have a look at Polished saddles on FB


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## Ambers Echo (3 February 2020)

Thanks I'll have a look x


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## HufflyPuffly (3 February 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			Thanks I'll have a look x
		
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There are a couple of different trees they use, so it might be worth finding out the exact model hes using on her. I know the synergy jump was suppose to be a different fit to the expression for example. Love Equipes though!


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## Ambers Echo (3 February 2020)

Ok I'll ask. Thanks. Even 2nd hand they are a grand!! It's my 50th birthday soon though and I should be able to sell Amber's for a few hundred......


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## HufflyPuffly (3 February 2020)

Erm at least they hold their value.... 

Sorry, no getting around they are expensive!


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## oldie48 (3 February 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			So Harry has been riding Amber. Says her saddle no longer fits and the flocking on the right is too flat/ air has leaked out and is hurting her. Which is making her grumpy and would explain her behaviour. I had it checked recently too! After Somerford I got a physio out, she had just had her teeth done and I was considering ulcers. Did not think tack/back. Feeling foolish but relieved. She has never been shy about expressing herself so I think it is a recent problem.

He has her in his own very expensive Equipe and she is sweet as a nut now. Overall he can see what I mean about her rushing fences - she wants to run but he is making her wait and she needs to learn how to do that. Familiar story! I've been trying to teach her that for years!! But overall he says she is a talented mare with a good work ethic. But sensitive and expressive if something is bothering her. I am feeling optimistic that things will be ok......
		
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I did wonder about the saddle. When Rose gave me a flying lesson, (I asked her to canter left and she slammed the brakes on, so I asked more strongly and she sent me into orbit) she had a very sore back because her saddle was pinching and she's very sensitive. She had been a bit resistent and bucky for a little while but I thought she was just testing me as we'd had a six month honeymoon period and she was a lot stronger. I think you have your answer and can stop worrying and please don't do what I did with Rose ie ride her tentatively expecting her to explode as I just taught her to nap. Get better soon!


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## maya2008 (3 February 2020)

So there was a physical problem and you should be safe to get back on without worrying about a repeat experience when you are healed! I hate saddles, fit one minute, don’t fit the next.


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## milliepops (3 February 2020)

good feedback there AE.  Hopefully this will be a productive start to the season for you, even if it's not exactly as you planned it!


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## VRIN (6 February 2020)

harry Moran has a very good reputation so it all looks very positive...


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## Ambers Echo (6 February 2020)

That's good to know. X


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## Ambers Echo (7 February 2020)

If anyone wants to know more details on how she's getting on I am putting updates on my blog:

https://themarewhonoonewanted.wordpress.com/2020/02/06/boot-for-me-boot-camp-for-amber/


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## Bernster (7 February 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			If anyone wants to know more details on how she's getting on I am putting updates on my blog:

https://themarewhonoonewanted.wordpress.com/2020/02/06/boot-for-me-boot-camp-for-amber/

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Blimey. Any idea what happened with the saddle?

Sounds like this could be the making of her though. Great idea. Will you be able to have him ride and teach you regularly once she’s back?  I wonder if that will set you up better for the long term.  My ins schools f once a week and it’s really helped his education as I’m not proficient enough.


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## Ambers Echo (7 February 2020)

No idea about the saddle. You can't see anything but when you feel the underside you can feel the tree. Not in a good way! 

I will have some lessons with Harry before I take Amber home but after that I think he is too far away for him to regularly ride her. But I might try and get someone else to school once a week.


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## Wheels (7 February 2020)

What type of saddle is it AE?  Does it have flair?


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## milliepops (7 February 2020)

Sounds like a positive update. I know it's hard not to feel deflated when you see the mountain to climb but like Bernster I think this whole thing could be a blessing in disguise.  It's hard to teach your horse something you don't really know yourself.  So if she gets a bit more education from someone who is well practiced in installing those things, then you practice with him before she comes home, you'll know the feeling you should have and how you should get it. And then you will notice if it starts to slip.  After that I don't think it matters who does the upkeep with you both, because you will both be starting from a position of knowing more of what you want than before anyway 

And good news in disguise with the saddle too. That's a clear explanation of why she did what she did, and I hope that helps your confidence when you are ready to get back on board x


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## Leo Walker (7 February 2020)

milliepops said:



			Sounds like a positive update. I know it's hard not to feel deflated when you see the mountain to climb but like Bernster I think this whole thing could be a blessing in disguise.  It's hard to teach your horse something you don't really know yourself.  So if she gets a bit more education from someone who is well practiced in installing those things, then you practice with him before she comes home, you'll know the feeling you should have and how you should get it. And then you will notice if it starts to slip.  After that I don't think it matters who does the upkeep with you both, because you will both be starting from a position of knowing more of what you want than before anyway 

And good news in disguise with the saddle too. That's a clear explanation of why she did what she did, and I hope that helps your confidence when you are ready to get back on board x
		
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Yup, this. Its not great it happened, but you have a definite reason for it now which is very good news. Theres no shame in sending any horse to the pros for a bit, much less a big, buzzy, slightly tricky one! I'd have packed her off a long time ago, so you have done brilliantly sticking it out as long as you did.  I sent mine off to be broken in January. It is indeed a very good time not to have a horse!


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## Ambers Echo (7 February 2020)

I also think maybe a rider not being 'good enough' for a horse depends a bit on what the rider wants to achieve? I don't feel unsafe on Amber and we have plenty of fun. And she is fit, strong and healthy. For many people that would be more than enough. Maybe if a pro got on 90% of leisure horses they could say all the things that aren't correct and could be improved on. It's just that I want Amber to go as well as she can go and I want us to progress in eventing. So I think I am harder on myself than is helpful. I need to focus on the journey and accept that I can only ride as well as I can ride and that has to be 'good enough' for now.


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## Ambers Echo (7 February 2020)

Wheels said:



			What type of saddle is it AE?  Does it have flair?
		
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It's a Liberty saddle. I don;t even know what a flair is! I am a total tack dork.  But I have sent it back to the saddler who made it.


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## Wheels (7 February 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			It's a Liberty saddle. I don;t even know what a flair is! I am a total tack dork.  But I have sent it back to the saddler who made it.
		
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Flair is the airbag system - they can leak air if the tubes are not sealed correctly. The manufacturers suggesting getting the fit checked at 3 month intervals as they are a precision item.

You can have the flair replaced with flock if the rest of the saddle is still suitable


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## VRIN (7 February 2020)

Having just looked at your blog ..the end of my first BE season .... WoW!! Why are you doubting yourself or your mare????? You have come so far...


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## KEK (7 February 2020)

I read it, too. You both look amazing !


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## Ambers Echo (7 February 2020)

Thank you. I think it is helpful to look back at where we have come from sometimes not just always ahead to where we want to go.


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## Starbucks (12 February 2020)

Sorry to hear about your fall Amber. 

So Foxy (who you know!) has found a new home now - she's gone to my friend who's wanted her for a while.  Anyway she bucked her off on a hack and she's never done anything like that!!  different rider, surroundings yes but I do think she is generally getting a bit more wild as she gets older, when you'd think it would be the other way!

I do think it's as they get older, stronger, more confident they get a bit more full of it.  Probably wouldn't hurt a pro having her for a bit, i think they should hopefully correct any unwanted behavior and get her back on the straight and narrow.  My other horse Coco used to be quite hot but since she got back from sales livery shes really calm..


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## Ambers Echo (27 February 2020)

So another update...

Harry really likes Amber (well I guess he would say that!) and he said she has plenty of talent. He took her XC schooling at Kelsall in preparation for their first BE90 coming up this weekend and schooled her over the 100 and novice fences. Said she had no problems at all but is 'too brave' in that she just launches herself at fences without really understanding the question. So she was jumping a fence with a ditch to a table and she just over-jumped the ditch and ran at the table which is too reckless. She needs to WAIT. And pay more attention to her rider. And she also jumped a skinny arrowhead novice sized fence taking off from really silly places because she hadn't read the fence and would not stay straight. He says she is not easy to ride. I overheard him talking to someone else saying if you a trying to see a stride in a combination you just can;t because she over-jumps the first element so striding is then weird and he just chucks her the reins and lets find her own way over.

My RI has always said she's not easy to ride but I have added (for you) in silent brackets in my head afterwards because basically I am not very good! But I am beginning to realise that she really isn't that easy. Which makes me proud of what we have achieved together but is doing nothing for my getting-back-on-her nerves. I cant help feeling that eventing is dangerous enough without doing it on a gung-ho horse who won't listen to me! But I can't make any decisions till I try her again. Which I am looking forward to and dreading in equal measure I think.


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## Ambers Echo (27 February 2020)

Hi Starbucks. Hope Foxy is settling in her new home. She seemed a real sweetheart. x


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## oldie48 (27 February 2020)

Talented horses are often not easy but I think you may find that spending tiime with a pro riding her will help enormously in her education. It's really about having "control" and not letting her bowl on at her own pace. This is do-able, but you may need to go back to basics when you first start riding her again. Don't give up.


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## Mule (27 February 2020)

I


Ambers Echo said:



			So another update...

Harry really likes Amber (well I guess he would say that!) and he said she has plenty of talent. He took her XC schooling at Kelsall in preparation for their first BE90 coming up this weekend and schooled her over the 100 and novice fences. Said she had no problems at all but is 'too brave' in that she just launches herself at fences without really understanding the question. So she was jumping a fence with a ditch to a table and she just over-jumped the ditch and ran at the table which is too reckless. She needs to WAIT. And pay more attention to her rider. And she also jumped a skinny arrowhead novice sized fence taking off from really silly places because she hadn't read the fence and would not stay straight. He says she is not easy to ride. I overheard him talking to someone else saying if you a trying to see a stride in a combination you just can;t because she over-jumps the first element so striding is then weird and he just chucks her the reins and lets find her own way over.

My RI has always said she's not easy to ride but I have added (for you) in silent brackets in my head afterwards because basically I am not very good! But I am beginning to realise that she really isn't that easy. Which makes me proud of what we have achieved together but is doing nothing for my getting-back-on-her nerves. I cant help feeling that eventing is dangerous enough without doing it on a gung-ho horse who won't listen to me! But I can't make any decisions till I try her again. Which I am looking forward to and dreading in equal measure I think.
		
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I think the training will be the making of you both.


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## TheMule (28 February 2020)

Horses are not born 'easy to ride', they’re trained to be easy (or not). That's fine if you have a dull horse or one with not that much ability, it generally works out fine if you don’t really input much to their training. 
But a bright, sensitive and talented mare like your needs training to be more rideable. I have one just the same- I've produced horses to a good level before, but this one is more talented and has needed a lot of clarity in a very logical system to make her rideable. She would launch into her distances, fling herself over ditches, take strides out etc if left to her own devices.
People would now ride her and find her an easy enough ride, but that's just because of the homework put in alongside training with really good instructors.


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## TPO (28 February 2020)

Coming from someone who does absolutely nothing so my opinion counts for diddly squat your post rings quite big alarms.

While not the case for every horse "over jumping" tends to be a nervous/panic/lack of confidence tactic. That her rider/trainer is saying that she doesnt understand the questions and that is why she "launches" is worrying.

Does this not indicate a hole somewhere and that perhaps it needs to be found and remedied rather than, I dunno, "challenging" the situation over bigger and trickier fences? 

Yes all horses can throw in a surprise re over jumping one element etc but that this  is a very regular occurrence screams a training issue to a complete numpty like me (who doesnt know the horse, doesnt even and could be reading this all wrong).

I'm sure that the rider/trainer knows what he is doing, as do you and your RI, but having identified issues I don't understand enforcing the same "behaviours" over bigger fences. Not knowing where she might take off from over fences that are increasing in size and technicality would be a concern to me. 

I would hate for anyone else or Amber to get hurt and I'm probably reading your post all wrong and have the wrong end of the stick. You're one of my favourite posters and I look forward to all your reports. In your situation I would want my money to be training A to be rideable and to *think* while jumping consistently and confidently out of a stride etc even if that meant a long slog of starting from the beginning. If a pro is having these issues out xc schooling why not step back to fix them rather than push on (& £££) to BE right now? I'm sure he'll manage to get her around safely but how does that help you? 

I'm presuming that ultimately you want to be back out there on A but if youre prepping her to have some fun outings and sell then yeah of course getting her out to bE is a good tactic.


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## Ambers Echo (28 February 2020)

He knows his remit is to set her up for me and her over jumping is just her. She jumps huge over logs. He is putting her in testing situations to get an understanding of the way she is, any gaps in her education and the problems I've faced and then to educate her.

Last season we had brakes and listening issues early in the season but I put in a huge amount of effort on control and our last few runs of the season were controlled. I think this year she is fitter than ever and excited in anticipation of XC because she's not done any since August when my season ended through injury (hers).

Harry said by the end of their session she was much better. Having said that, my jumping lessons are the same. She comes out giddy then settles and does lovely rounds. I could really do with shortening the giddy stage. Or maybe she will always need to he ridden in for a long time?


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## Ambers Echo (28 February 2020)

ETA - I think the only reason I'm keen to get her out Be is that I really want someone to take her for her first run of the season as she is bound to be excited . Neither he nor my usual RI compete horses unless they are liveried with them. And basically the money will run out soon.... oh I dont know. Too many decisions!!!

I'm waffling now but I think 99% of the issue is just in my head. My usual RI knows Amber inside out and we have been working on all the issues Harry is talking about- loads of 'dressage with jumps in the way' work. And she had been going really well at home pre the broken tree. I'm on the slow path because I'm not good enough to accelerate her education. But she is getting better. Or at least she was before a pain issue developed. Harry is wanting to fix things really fast. But realistically I dont think he will change her nature. Hopefully he'll give me ideas on how to manage her better.  But she will always be Amber.


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## Michen (28 February 2020)

None of this is in your head, it’s a genuine *thing* that even a pro has raised. 

I had thought I’d seen a video of you (maybe it wasn’t you) going around a 80/90 XC where she looked really chilled. She didn’t look like she was over jumping at all I remember thinking she had a nice lolloping sort of rhythm.. has something changed since then or was she looking more chilled than she felt? Got fitter/keener?

ETA investing in someone competing Bog was the best thing I ever did, my issues were more around his sharpness in general (I still haven’t forgotten him teleporting at both Aston le walls and millfield in the warm ups) not the actual jumping where he’s always been very confidence giving. I wonder if this will be a similar issue to you now rather than the xc itself, concern over her exploding in a warm up after what happened. Maybe the two things need separating out in your mind a little.. not sure. Just musing.


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## Ambers Echo (28 February 2020)

Yes we have done some nice rounds - both nice calm SJ rounds and controlled XC courses at BE events. She over jumps when doing something she's not done for a while or just randomly every 10th jump or so for no obvious reason. 

The 'in my head' bit refers to my fears that I am over horsed and can't ride her. Whereas in fact Harry has picked up issues we already know about and are working on and improving, albeit slowly with the odd hiccup.


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## maya2008 (28 February 2020)

I typed a long reply and then decided that this was the main point:

Try a different regular trainer.

Your problems are not being solved, just lessened slightly. You made it out competing but without the necessary education in you or the horse to make it a good educational, smooth experience. You have the same problems you ‘know about’. Nothing is being solved, at least not fast enough. And that is nothing to do with your natural talent. That is what your trainer is for, to teach you and your horse! 

Six months is the longest it took me to sort one of mine when she had had a sharer for two years (and she had become dangerous jumping, she was so out of control!). And that is six months until she was foot perfect, no inclination to behave like that again, ever. 

Just try it. However amazing someone is, does not necessarily mean they are the right fit for you.


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## ycbm (28 February 2020)

maya2008 said:



			I typed a long reply and then decided that this was the main point:

Try a different regular trainer.

Your problems are not being solved, just lessened slightly. You made it out competing but without the necessary education in you or the horse to make it a good educational, smooth experience. You have the same problems you ‘know about’. Nothing is being solved, at least not fast enough. And that is nothing to do with your natural talent. That is what your trainer is for, to teach you and your horse! 

Six months is the longest it took me to sort one of mine when she had had a sharer for two years (and she had become dangerous jumping, she was so out of control!). And that is six months until she was foot perfect, no inclination to behave like that again, ever. 

Just try it. However amazing someone is, does not necessarily mean they are the right fit for you.
		
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Watching the video on your other thread, I completely agree with this. 

.


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## VRIN (28 February 2020)

Who is your trainer?


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## Ambers Echo (11 March 2020)

If anyone is interested in how things are going I have put up a new blog:

https://themarewhonoonewanted.wordpress.com/2020/03/11/back-on-board/ 

Potted summary: I rode again today!! And she was fab. Back to the old Amber I know and love. And I really DO know her and I really, really do love her. 

VRIN missed your question - sorry. My trainer is Maddy Moffett if you know her? I respect her a lot and I think she really does 'get' both Amber and me.


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## milliepops (11 March 2020)

great stuff. Onward and upward


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## Roxylola (11 March 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			VRIN missed your question - sorry. My trainer is Maddy Moffett if you know her? I respect her a lot and I think she really does 'get' both Amber and me.
		
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Ooh, I wonder if that was the same Maddy that taught me at camp 21st of Feb at Somerford.  If so I totally get why you'd want to keep her, she was just lovely - teaching a bunch of wobbly unknowns is never easy (especially with a supercob who thinks he's a stunt pony and spent a fair portion on his back legs )  We had a brill time though.

So glad to hear you are getting on again and enjoying yourself


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## Ambers Echo (11 March 2020)

Roxylola yes that will have been Maddy Moffett. She teaches at a lot of the Somerford camps. She is fab.


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## Skib (11 March 2020)

So happy to read this update and to know you are back in the sadle and that you and Amber are in good hands - trainer-wise. 
Also that riding her again gave you pleasure after the break - I and my share mare are not in your league but coincidentlly I too resumed riding yesterday and it was a big dose of happiness. Will now read your blog.


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## VRIN (11 March 2020)

Great news. I don't of many but she sounds excellent.


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