# Liver/Detox Supplements - should we all be using them?



## Ziggy_ (15 August 2008)

The more I read on various forums, the more shocked I am at how common liver problems are in horses. I've always been aware of the dangers of ragwort poisoning but I thought it was fairly rare.

Now I've been thinking my horse is 11, she could have extensive liver damage for all I know, having never had her vetted. We have a strict ragwort control policy at my yard but some of the liveries do a frankly crap job and miss bits, drop bits in the field, all sorts. Not to mention anything that she could have eaten in her hay over the past decade.

So do any of you use products to aid liver function on a regular or occasional basis? Do you have blood tests to test liver function on a fit and well horse? And with the number of horses affected and the amount of ragwort in this country is it something we should all be considering? Or is it another cheeky way for feed companies to make money out of hypochondriac horse owners?


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## MerryMaker (15 August 2008)

Theres plenty of ways to feed a horse with liver damage without supplements IMO. Avoid oil and high protein.


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## Beanyowner (15 August 2008)

Well thinking about it from a 'common sense' point of view...surely if it was such a serious problem and we should all be feeding liver detox supplements would we not be seeing massive numbers of horses dieing from ragwort poisoning...not just the 500 a year or so which are currently diagnosed.
Ragwort poisoning can only really be dianosed by liver disection...so no, I don't think there any tests apart from general tests/symptoms which show some sort of liver damage but will not specifically be ragwort related.

Personally I would say (along with most other pro-biotic supplements) is a bit of a scam. Equine supplements do not have to go under the same rigorous checks that human medicine does and as far as I am aware (without going off to search for journals etc) there has not been massive amounts of studies done on Equine Supplements...or at least ones which aren't slight bias...i.e. funded by the feed company who produce the supplement!! If you feed your horse correctly and according to its work load then there should be no reason to have to supplement your horse with anything (unless for medical reasons)...good grazing/hay with 'appropriate' concentrate feed (when needed!!) should be all the horse really needs to be healthy and happy! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





*please note I am aware people swear by their supplements...I have just never come across one which was of much use except for feeding Vit E and Selenium after my horse tied up...but thats more medical than random supplement!


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## BackInBlack (15 August 2008)

well, my horse has liver disease so he will be having blood tests and supplements for the rest of his life. the thing is with liver disease is that by the time you notice any symptoms there is already a lot of damage done to the liver - sometimes it is too late to treat. also you have so many different types of liver troubles, some may come on quick and some take a year maybe to become apparent so a blood test would show up the slow diseases sooner than you would notice symptoms outwardly . i don't really understand it completely yet - there is so much info i need to find out! but i will be feeding all my horses milk thistle as this is a much recommended to me liver detox supplement.


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## MerryMaker (15 August 2008)

[ QUOTE ]

Personally I would say (along with most other pro-biotic supplements) is a bit of a scam. Equine supplements do not have to go under the same rigorous checks that human medicine does and as far as I am aware (without going off to search for journals etc) there has not been massive amounts of studies done on Equine Supplements...or at least ones which aren't slight bias...i.e. funded by the feed company who produce the supplement!! If you feed your horse correctly and according to its work load then there should be no reason to have to supplement your horse with anything (unless for medical reasons)...good grazing/hay with 'appropriate' concentrate feed (when needed!!) should be all the horse really needs to be healthy and happy! 
	
	
		
		
	


	






[/ QUOTE ]

Here here!


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## kellyeaton (15 August 2008)

i am sorry merry maker you are wrong iif your horse has a liver problem you should have them on a low protine diet not a high one if they have a high protine diet you are asking the liver to work more witch you dont want. the best way to find out  about liver problems is to have liver fuction tesdt done. Do not feed liver tonic or dettoxs unless the liver needs helping otherwise if it is working well on its on you are just complicating things!


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## Box_Of_Frogs (16 August 2008)

I would please beg everyone to rely on experience and advice/info from true experts (recognised, world experts) before well meaning but incorrect advice is given. Milk thistle supports liver function - one of the few herbal supplements that has been fairly rigorously tested. Also B vit supplements can help as they aid hind gut digestion (compromised in liver damaged horses) and some of these products (eg Yea Sac) also act as an appetite stimulant, also a common and serious problem in liver damaged horses. A low - but high quality - protein diet is imperative. All these things support the liver by reducing the amount of work it has to do.

If anyone really wants to know whether their ned MAY have ragwort poisoning from a previous owner, the best thing to do is run a fundraising event and send the proceeds to Professor Derek Knottenbelt at Liverpool University. The man is a world expert on liver disease in horses and will not hesitate to offer detailed advice and guidance to any owner who approaches him for help. The man is an absolute saint. He has begun developing a simple blood test that any horse owner could request which would tell if the horse had eaten ragwort in the past. But this research has had to be put on hold as the funding to complete it has dried up. As ragwort gets ever more prevalent in the hedgerows and fields and gardens across Britain, this test becomes ever more important. If anyone would be interested in talking to H&amp;H to try to run a UK-wide fundraising event through this Forum, let me know x


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## kellyeaton (18 August 2008)

i will help in any way poss this is to box of frogs!xxxx


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