# Exclusive use of arena in lessons?  Advice needed please!



## nemain (3 February 2017)

Hi all,

Can I please ask whether you would expect to provide (if you're a school owner!)/be provided with (if you're the learner) exclusive use of an arena during a private lesson?  Or would you be comfortable having owners/staff working other horses in the same space?

I have a situation where two nervous beginner riders who share a private lesson are uncomfortable with having other riders present.  Would it be reasonable to expect them to pay more to have exclusive access to one of the schools for the duration of their lesson?  Or would you expect the exclusive access to come as part of the definition of 'private lesson'?

Many thanks!


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## milliepops (3 February 2017)

If I had a visiting instructor come to my yard I could book the school for private use... if it was booked for an outsider they would have to pay and could expect it to be private.

I take my horse to my trainer's place for lessons... and rarely have the arena to myself. Usually at least one other sharing, having a lesson with another trainer, and occasionally others are in there too. Personally I don't mind at all, it's good practice to be able to ride around other horses without losing focus or getting in a flap.

When I was training for exams at a RS, I never had the school to myself, in a private lesson I had the *instructor* to myself but not the facilities.

So, kind of depends.  As you mention they are nervous beginners, then fair enough it can be a lot to deal with but i'd expect to pay extra for that, as it would not appear to be the standard for the place where they are learning.  However, it would be of benefit for them to work towards being able to work in a shared environment eventually.


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## Lucyad (3 February 2017)

When I visit yards for private lessons I expect full use of the arena. One has a large arena split into 2, the other portion would be used during a private lesson, but not 'my' half.


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## MissTyc (3 February 2017)

On the yards I grew up on the continent you would never get exclusive use of the school - the concept was unheard of. In the UK, however, I encounter it more often. For me (as a trainer and as a rider) it depends on the size of the school and the "type" of other users. On a professional yard with people working their horses or having lessons there is no problem to share and work around each other. On more rustic yards, or where kids/riders are likely to bomb haphazardly in all directions it's probably safer for all to take turns! 

On my yard we share, no bookings possible. HOWEVER we are also considerate people; therefore, if someone is nervous or bringing a horse back into work then they let the others know and it's never a problem. School rules have been followed without a problem ever since we had a terrible injury when someone rode too close to a frisky mare and her leg was fractured by a kick ... Suddenly novices riders understand WHY there might be rules that us older idiots keep trying to enforce.


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## criso (3 February 2017)

At riding schools I have been at it has always been a case of sharing facilities if needed and sometimes a group lesson and a couple of private lessons at the same time.  Private has meant that the instructor is just teaching you.


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## nemain (3 February 2017)

Thanks so much for the helpful replies!

Full disclosure: I'm one of the nervous riders in this scenario. It's not helped by the fact that I've had a few nasty experiences in the last few months and have lost a lot of confidence.  The horse I tend to ride is pretty steady but has been getting spooky for the last few months and shying away from the jumps and fillers that tend to be out for other riders.  Probably nothing to a more experienced rider, but I've had occasions when I've felt really panicked at him throwing his head up and jumping sideways, or at at the feeling of getting 'buzzed' by other horses riding past me too closely and too fast, which by the end of a lesson can leave me wheeling around in my saddle trying to keep an eye on all the other horses so I can avoid them.

I've spoken to my instructor about not feeling safe or comfortable when this happens and, while she's lovely, she's a bit of a sergeant-major type who prefers to briskly dismiss it as 'nonsense'.  I'm sure she's trying to give me confidence but it's a bit counter-productive. 

I ended up leaving a lesson last night because people were moving equipment around in the arena and both our horses got overly excitable: mine jumped sideways when people were moving around near him with poles, and my partner's started rushing to the point where he couldn't control it.  Again, it's probably very undramatic to more skilled riders but, to us, it's terrifying.

I hope you don't mind that I tried to ask the question in a very neutral way, leaving it a bit unclear as to whether I was rider or yard owner.  I wanted to get an honest sense of how a request to not share the arena would go down.  I think I'll ask if they can let us know in advance if there will be other riders sharing the same space, so we can make the decision to cancel without financial penalty if we feel the situation will be beyond our skill level.


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## ester (3 February 2017)

I do think other people riding is also a bit different to lots of hoiking about of equipment too even if the horses are used to it.

Are you able to go at quieter times?

I might question whether you think this set up is currently the right one for you and partner and whether somewhere smaller with a bit less going on might be more enjoyable? And productive


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## Apercrumbie (3 February 2017)

I can understand why that is worrying for you - and I'm surprised that people continue to move equipment if they can see that it's upsetting the horse. I would ask to have your lesson at a time when the school is likely to be quiet. One little tip about being nervous too - don't forget to breathe! Sing to yourself quietly to remind yourself when you're feeling scared, it will help reassure the horse.


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## milliepops (3 February 2017)

ester said:



			I do think other people riding is also a bit different to lots of hoiking about of equipment too even if the horses are used to it.

Are you able to go at quieter times?

I might question whether you think this set up is currently the right one for you and partner and whether somewhere smaller with a bit less going on might be more enjoyable? And productive
		
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^^ agree, the extra info changes things a bit. If you're doing flatwork in a standard sized arena with others it's also nicer if the jumps are stacked in one place rather than stuck in the way. I'd expect them to wait until the school was empty before starting to move equipment around.   When I've been for lessons at a RS it was either a flat session or a jump session in each school, not mixed. 
 I've been riding for over 25 years but would find that situation a bit annoying if I was paying for the privilege!


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## ester (3 February 2017)

It also sounds like the different instructors are not given different areas to teach in as happens a lot in big places, but that you are all riding in a sort of open order. 
From your description of it I think I'd find it a bit stressful anyway and I'm not a nervous novice, I feel quite sorry for you being put in that situ.


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## alainax (3 February 2017)

If it is at a riding school I would expect the person having the lesson by the ridinhg schools staff to have sole use. Unless it's a huge arena split in two. 

A bit like the taped off lanes for swimming lessons

If it's your own horse at your livery yard you can usually book the school for sole use for a lesson. 

If you are taking your own horse else where, you would have to book and pay to hire the arena .


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## twiggy2 (3 February 2017)

Depends on the individual yard rules but if your riding instructors approach does not suit you then it's time to go somewhere else


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## milliepops (3 February 2017)

I used to ride in open order at a BHS training centre when having private lessons, is that unusual then?  I can't remember having a designated space to myself unless there happened to be no other instructors teaching on the day.


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## ester (3 February 2017)

Possibly, I just know I'd find it difficult to concentrate or riding as much as I would like to and if the OP and OH aren't the only novices in the arena I can imagine it all getting a bit tricky?
My experience is not have having really defined splits of the arena but rough areas for each instructor.


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## criso (3 February 2017)

Funnily enough the equipment would worry me less than the other horses as either at riding school or on my own horse, I would be warming up as the jumps are dragged out and put up.  Other horses are a bit more of an unknown quantity depending on the competence of the other rider and behaviour of the horse.

Sounds like it may not be the right environment for you though.  No nonsense works for some  people but not all and maybe a quieter riding school may not have the same demands on facilities.


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## criso (3 February 2017)

milliepops said:



			I used to ride in open order at a BHS training centre when having private lessons, is that unusual then?  I can't remember having a designated space to myself unless there happened to be no other instructors teaching on the day.
		
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That has always been my experience unless one group is jumping and then they might split ends - I'm talking bigger that 20 x 40 here.


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## milliepops (3 February 2017)

criso said:



			Funnily enough the equipment would worry me less than the other horses as either at riding school or on my own horse, I would be warming up as the jumps are dragged out and put up.  Other horses are a bit more of an unknown quantity depending on the competence of the other rider and behaviour of the horse.
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I agree, but for a RS with beginners, who are riding horses that are visibly reacting to the jumps being moved, I'd say this is not really a safe way to proceed  if the OP felt so unhappy that she had to leave mid-lesson then I think the staff need to hear this feedback tbh :wink3:  I'm not safety mad but riding is a risk sport, beginners are extra vulnerable, and I would think it common sense on the behalf of the RS to keep risks to a minimum.


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## Sparemare (3 February 2017)

I wouldn't like it OP.  We are a small yard and nobody here would ride in the school if it was already in use, especially if there's a lesson taking place.  I'd look around for another riding school.


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## moosea (3 February 2017)

Sorry OP, as an instructor I would not be happy to teach you, and charge you, as a private lesson with others in the school. You are both beginners and you say one of you nearly lost control. You need what you are paying for - private lessons.

I think you would be better looking for a more friendly place to learn, where you feel you can raise issues as they arise and where your instructor fills you with confidence. This does not seem to be the case at your current school.

ETA: 
Is your current school approved by the BHS or ABRS? Perhaps it would be worth posting up the area you are looking in and getting a few recommendations on here.


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## gallopingby (3 February 2017)

If there are two of you having a private lesson I wouldn't expect anyone else to be in the arena unless it was properly divided. If its a riding school I'd be concerned that a private lesson - shared lesson had things happening at the same time. If on my own horse then either I'd expect facility were the arena can be booked in advance or would book somewhere that I felt secure and safe. It appears there are some riding schools which are licensed by the local authority but not BHS/ABRS approved and therefore the conditions one would expect to be in place aren't always present. In that case I'd look for another facility with sufficient experience and understanding. You are paying for a service and it should be to an acceptable standard or consider another provider.


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## Micropony (3 February 2017)

It's a long time ago now since I was a riding school client, but I don't ever remember sharing a school with riders who were jumping while I was having a flat lesson. Most of the RS schools I have ridden in were 20x40. One place had massive schools that could be divided into 3 20x40 areas, and there would frequently be three separate lessons going on in each, but not in the same one at once. With nervous beginners in the mix who might not always be in complete control of speed or direction, I am not convinced it sounds terribly safe either, particularly if they are putting nervous beginners on horses that react to equipment being moved around. I could certainly understand why the OP might prefer to find somewhere a bit more sensitive to her concerns.


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## criso (3 February 2017)

The thing is it's the big BHS riding schools and training centres where I have seen this happen most. They are not always that flexible about things too.

Eta however in that set up the horses, at least the beginner ones, were used to it and wouldn't bat an eyelid whatever was happening.


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## ycbm (4 February 2017)

I've never shared an arena for a lesson and I wouldn't unless it was divided, either physically or by agreement. I don't pay for lessons to get my horse to learn how to work around others, I can take him to a local show and do that much cheaper there. I go for a lesson to concentrate on my horse and my riding, and to get better or different work out of us both than I could get by myself at home.

As a beginner or nervous rider, OP, I think this is far too much to ask, but I would expect you to have to pay more for sole use. I think you would enjoy it a lot more if you did that, or went somewhere they don't share, from the sound of it.


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## teapot (4 February 2017)

From a BHS/ABRS riding school client point of view, in recent weeks I've had a mix of arenas to myself and sharing. The two 'sharing space' lessons were in a 80 by 30 indoor. One was a livery schooling on the flat while I had a flat lesson, where we were at opposite ends but both working around a full course that had been left up (and thankfully didn't bat an eye lid when I was pissed off with!), the other was again a flat lesson with a small grid jumping private lesson taking place simultaneously with another instructor. Neither bothered me in the slightest and there was no physical divide set up either which they do have if needed. 

Yes I'm paying for a private lesson but that's twice in twelve lessons I've had to share. The rest of the time I've had it to myself, or been in one of their other arenas. I'm not a beginner though and am taught by one of the senior instructors so her arena requests for clients don't tend to get changed.

With my RDA coach hat on, I'd want to teach you either in one arena on your own, or if sharing, have a proper divide and be at opposite ends. I'd also hope the horses I was using didn't react to equipment being moved around.


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## nemain (4 February 2017)

Thanks again, everyone.  I'm so grateful for your responses.

When we are sharing the arena (and we do get it to ourselves a lot of the time), it's with owners or staff exercising their horses, rather than with other lessons. To be fair to the school, they're definitely never running two lessons at once, or having a flatwork lesson at the same time as a jumping lesson - it's just that much more proficient riders want to use the jumps that are out, whereas we're still very much at the stage of riding around them!  

And, again, in the interests of fairness the lesson we stopped halfway through this week was a horrendous mix-up which has NEVER happened before.  We turned up to find our instructor midway through teaching a course-building session to ~10 paying customers, and expecting us to ride around them, occasionally demonstrating. I suspect it was a double-booking that she tried to make work, with slightly disastrous results.

I think I'll see if they'd be prepared to let us know if there are plans for other riders in the arena. I'd be happier if we stayed in separate areas of the arena, but I suspect we'll have to accept the reality that that's not how this school works. On which note - any recommendations for schools that might offer a kindly, understanding teaching style and weekday evening lessons anywhere between Cambridge and Ipswich?!

Thanks again, folks. It's good to hear other perspectives and to get a sense of whether we're expecting the moon on a stick!


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## teapot (4 February 2017)

nemain said:



			And, again, in the interests of fairness the lesson we stopped halfway through this week was a horrendous mix-up which has NEVER happened before.  We turned up to find our instructor midway through teaching a course-building session to ~10 paying customers, and expecting us to ride around them, occasionally demonstrating. I suspect it was a double-booking that she tried to make work, with slightly disastrous results.
		
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That's not fair on you as beginners in any way, shape or form. 

In terms of sharing an arena with staff/liveries - they should be aware that a lesson is going on and do their best to stay out the way, as much as you try and stay out of the way. Not fair for anyone really, especially if school rules get forgotten.


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## Oscarbear91 (4 February 2017)

OP - if i was paying for a private lesson I would expect exclusive use of the school yes. As other posters have already mentioned, I too have had private lessons at RS that have a large school and have split this in two but still, I had exclusive use of "my section." 
I think it's unacceptable what has happened to you during these lessons and I really feel for you. I too am not a massively confident rider (although this is getting better every time I ride) and to be put in this situation is awful. I think that you need to have a frank conversation with your instructor - if she is not helpful, I'd look to go elsewhere. I believe that it's really important to have a good relationship with your instructor and a nice feel about the RS your at. Not only are you paying good money for these private lessons, but they are supposed to be enjoyable - not scary! 
Good luck!!


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## ester (4 February 2017)

nemain unfortunately I've just moved to cambridgeshire so can't help on recommendations but perhaps try another thread on the regional boards? or New lounge just mention the area in the title.

Thanks for your further explanation I think the thing about riding like that is that often more experienced riders are also more defined on their plans/lines etc and probably try and carry on and know they will be going around you but you don't really no that. I know a lot of the bigger BHS outfits teach like that as outlined by others too but I am really not sure it is the best thing for a nervous novice.
As such I wonder if a smaller more personalised outfit might suit you, even if just for a bit and there is no reason that level of instruction/horsepower necessarily depends on size of outfit here.


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## alainax (4 February 2017)

From another perspective I have also liveried at a riding school. Owners were not permitted to use the school when lessons were on.


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## rachk89 (4 February 2017)

Well at my yard, if you book a lesson with an instructor who also liveries there or the YO himself, then you get the arena to yourself with it. Although the other instructor has said I am fine to go into the arena even if he is teaching so that I can listen in, but I'd feel weird doing that so I dont. 

I wouldnt mind if someone was wanting to ride though at the same time as my lesson, as long as they dont get in the way, but thats a given in any circumstance. No one does though, its just polite not to really. But I know times for some are difficult for riding so if someone was pushed for time, I wouldnt mind.

That situation though you're describing really needs to stop. Its not safe, its not productive and you're wasting your money. I am a little confused, are these your horses too? Or are they just ones provided by the riding school? If they are the riding schools, request different horses or find a new place as they dont sound overly safe. Riding school horses shouldnt really react to things like that to be honest, good ones dont at least. Either way, it needs to stop so since the instructor doesnt seem bothered, maybe find a new place. You need to feel safe or the nerves are never going to get better.


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## nemain (5 February 2017)

Hey there,

Not our horses, no. They're riding school horses and are normally pretty easy-going. The one I'm riding has developed problems with stiffness/neck soreness in the last few months which isn't helping his confidence, and the one my partner rides is a bit full of beans now she's not allowed out overnight.

The riding school itself is mid-sale and noticeably lacking in staff at the moment, so I suspect the horses aren't really getting the time, money or attention they need to be in the best condition for nervous riders.  (I was relieved to have a lesson with a substitute teacher a few weeks ago who instantly recognised that my horse is behaving oddly for him - she came over and felt his neck muscles and said she thought he was sore and stressed and that she'd never seen him shying away from things before.)


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## teapot (5 February 2017)

I'd be finding somewhere else OP - you want and need a rs that's welcoming, encouraging and provides exactly what beginners need.


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## gnubee (26 February 2017)

The way you have described your private lesson, tbh I think you would be better off in a group if you have to stay at that school as at least in a group everyone is coordinated and not just doing their own thing.
Things that sound bad about your current situation include:
- complete lack of organisation (school chaos and double bookings)
- failure to deliver what you are paying for (if your instructor is teaching course building at the same time and you don't have private use of the school that is not a private lesson)
- inappropriate horse for building your confidence as a beginner (possibly  your partner too- there may be reasons why your horses aren't as kind as usual but none of those justify continuing to use them for people struggling to handle them)
- instructor hasn't spotted your dwindling confidence and hasn't responded appropriately when you raised it.

I've been at a lot of riding schools and seen most of the issues above in some I thought were pretty shamnolic, but never seen them all in one place. Stick a pin in the phone book and pick any. It's not likely to be worse anywhere else and there are some really great is ones out there.
PS IME the best ones for beginners are often not the most expensive or bhs approved etc. Try a few to find a set up you feel comfortable with. Also don't rule out group lessons - it can be really helpful to see what everyone else is doing and hear the advice they get, and the other horses in groups honestly never cause nearly as much confusion as you describe having in your privates.


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