# Are some people just never any good?



## Neptune (4 January 2016)

To be able to complete a novice test with a reasonable 60%+ score. To be able to jump a metre show jump course and to compete in say a BE 90 ODE. I think is pretty do able for majority of horses, none of it is over demanding, obviously need to be fit and well etc etc. but none of the above is really out of the realms of any horse. 

So why can I never get there? I have been riding for over 20 years now. Never had the advantage of having a pony of my own as a child riding only once a week in a riding school so only really came into horse ownership as an adult and started to realise the true meaning of riding. Always having regular lessons with various different trainers over the years yet still not getting anywhere. 

We can not seem to get above prelim dressage and a 75 cm course is interesting! As above none of anything higher would be out of my horses reach. So it must be me, after all the years and still not improving are some people destined to just remain at lower levels as in a word, they are just RUBBISH riders? 

Can we ever be taught to improve? Or do you just naturally have to be a good rider to achieve anything more?


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## Goldenstar (4 January 2016)

It took me many years to learn how to learn once I sussed it I was flying .
I thought there was some magical ability good riders had ( and some people at the top level do have unreal talents ) then a trainer showed me how to learn the world changed for me that day .
I recommend a book That winning feeling by Jane Savoie I read that book and took a unschooled horse ( albeit a very special one ) from having never  evented to Bramham in three years .


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## be positive (4 January 2016)

I have taught many people and would expect most to be capable of competing at the levels you want to, assuming they want to and have a halfway decent horse, I do think some people have problems competing usually through lack of preparation combined with nerves on the day but I would still expect with good training and the right approach there should be no reason you could not do at least one discipline more successfully.

I think it may be an idea to decide what your aims are then start a sensible plan towards achieving it, possibly aim for doing a novice dr test  as the first step, getting your prelim scores up a couple of % so you can go out and do 1 prelim and 1 novice, just aim for a "clear round" the first time with a fluent accurate test and don't worry about the score think of it as a schooling session, there is nothing in the early novice tests that are not in a prelim other than some lengthening which is only 2 marks, the movements come a little closer but I find that actually helps the horse and rider stay more focused, once you have done the first one it will be easier to continue to do a novice each time until you feel comfortable to think about leaving prelims behind you.

I would also suggest you volunteer to help at some local dr comps, see if you can write for the judge, it will give you a new perspective on competing when you see others struggling, you don't see it when you are riding as you only tend to notice the smart horses and riders looking confident, many change once they enter the arena, it may give you a boost to see another side.

Get yourself a trainer who will offer support, ideally one who will go to a few comps with you, possibly even ride your horse to get it onto the next level and not let you accept that you are rubbish, they need to give you a push in the right direction.


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## Broodle (4 January 2016)

I'm not really sure whether some riders are beyond help (I certainly hope not!), but it is certainly true that most horses have all the ability to do the things you want to do, but a rather smaller subset of them have the kind temperament and good and forgiving nature necessary to do them with any rider.

It struck me from your post that you have been struggling on with the one horse (sorry if wrong!) because of your belief that he is capable while you are not. But maybe he is capable but just not generous enough to help you get there too? 

Just my musings! I'm horse hunting atm, and it's really really hard to find a nice horse who will continue to try hard when the rider messes up, and won't take advantage of mistakes.

Sorry, went rather off-topic there!


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## Schollym (4 January 2016)

I know where you are coming from, in my case it was nerves that prevented me from being successful and I know the horse is capable as she is successful with my daughter. Then I discovered trec, this is fun, with the obstacles and if you don't like the look of one can miss it out and with a full trec riding across unknown countryside with a map is exciting although I have only done this bit as a pair, and we have even won!


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## Jenni&Ditty (4 January 2016)

Broodle said:



			I'm not really sure whether some riders are beyond help (I certainly hope not!), but it is certainly true that most horses have all the ability to do the things you want to do, but a rather smaller subset of them have the kind temperament and good and forgiving nature necessary to do them with any rider.

It struck me from your post that you have been struggling on with the one horse (sorry if wrong!) because of your belief that he is capable while you are not. But maybe he is capable but just not generous enough to help you get there too? 

Just my musings! I'm horse hunting atm, and it's really really hard to find a nice horse who will continue to try hard when the rider messes up, and won't take advantage of mistakes.

Sorry, went rather off-topic there! 

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I agree. Some people just don't click with some horses, like some people just dont get on with other people. This isn't the horses fault and it definitely isnt yours, its just the way it is.

Please don't give up. Mary King says in her book that she was 'hopeless' when she first started riding. It took her a year to learn to do rising trot. The first eventer she worked for banned her from riding because she said she wasn't good enough, and couldn't see a stride. And look where she is now!


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## Firewell (4 January 2016)

I think that people don't really learn how to ride at riding schools. It's only when you are out on your own that you really learn how to ride with feel! Are you struggling with the same instructor or horse? Maybe you need to change and do things differently to get different results. I think you should find a schoolmaster on loan or to ride, an older horse who has done it all before and can teach you. If you are riding a horse that hasn't done it then it can be a case of the blind leading the blind! You may also need a change of instructor and some self belief! Anyone can do it with the right horse, some knowledge and belief in themselves. You have to be committed not just to learning but mentally committed to achieving it. Horses can pick up on your mindest more than your technical abilities as a rider.


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## Walrus (4 January 2016)

There are certainly some people who are more naturally able (same goes for horses too), I really think the right instructor is the key. I have no natural rhythm and no natural 'feel', I can't tell which leg is where and I have struggled to tell what is right in terms of way of going (I'll think it's fine, pony will be behind the leg and curled up, I think we're going too fast, actually pony is developing swing!). I use mirrors a lot and have lots of lessons and really have to learn to identify signs to look for to show pony is going well! However we are progressing in the right direction and that's what matters. I try and go to the gym and find that has helped and I feel that we train really hard to hit the heady heights of novice dressage when it seems to come so easily to others but that's just the way it is! My instructor has the patience of a saint and has taken us from not bring able to turn right to currently aiming for novice music at winter regional (even with my lack of rhythm), it's taken a while but slow progress is better than no progress!


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## Bernster (4 January 2016)

Walrus said:



			There are certainly some people who are more naturally able (same goes for horses too), I really think the right instructor is the key. I have no natural rhythm and no natural 'feel', I can't tell which leg is where and I have struggled to tell what is right in terms of way of going (I'll think it's fine, pony will be behind the leg and curled up, I think we're going too fast, actually pony is developing swing!). I use mirrors a lot and have lots of lessons and really have to learn to identify signs to look for to show pony is going well! However we are progressing in the right direction and that's what matters. I try and go to the gym and find that has helped and I feel that we train really hard to hit the heady heights of novice dressage when it seems to come so easily to others but that's just the way it is! My instructor has the patience of a saint and has taken us from not bring able to turn right to currently aiming for novice music at winter regional (even with my lack of rhythm), it's taken a while but slow progress is better than no progress!
		
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Good lord, that could have been written by me, only I'm further behind in terms of competing haha. I also think I'm terrible for holding myself back, and try to achieve more than I need to for the level I'm at.


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## SO1 (4 January 2016)

I think riding is 70% confidence and 30% natural ability/feel.

I will never be a great rider I am not particularly confident and don't have a lot of natural balance and feel. In my case I would need to have a good confidence giving forgiving schoolmaster to achieve what you are wanting to do.

There is a big difference between doing those activities on a horse that is experienced and confident and bringing on and training a horse to get to that level.


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## kassieg (4 January 2016)

I think everyone is good at something you just have to find what it is! 

I seem to have a knack with breaking, no matter how bad they start out I just seem to be able to crack them & never ever have an issue once I'm on. Don't know how I do it I just can! 

However training for eventing I have to work at. Last season I consistently had my instructor telling me I was more talented than my horse & I didn't believe him but I know he wouldn't lie to me. I do need that consistent reassurance though, whereas with breaking I just know I can do it.

I think the right instructor can work wonders. Mine has know me since I was a child. Knows I'm gutsy & will ride at any fence especially if told I wouldn't dare, but also knows I question myself showjumping which is bizzare as I was "raised" on a showjumping yard & its all I did as a child. He knows that sometimes I need shouting at & being told to get on with it. 

I think anyone is capable of anything with the right training for them and the right horse with the right scope (in whatever area) & the right training for the horse. You are as good as you want to make yourself so if you want to event at 90, go for it


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## marmalade76 (4 January 2016)

I do think some people are beyond help - my dad, for instance  but as mentioned before, he got by on his confidence.

What I found improved my jumping no end, both confidence and ability was lots of hunting and fun rides. The right horse also helps, maybe time for a change?


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## JennBags (5 January 2016)

Bernster said:



			Good lord, that could have been written by me, only I'm further behind in terms of competing haha. I also think I'm terrible for holding myself back, and try to achieve more than I need to for the level I'm at.
		
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Me too! Also know exactly where the OP is coming from. I mentally understand riding, I work really hard at improving myself all the time but just feel as though I'm a completely crap rider. My horse doesn't help me out, in fact he's often described by my instructor as a nob, but I've got friends who would be able to do the things on him that I want to, I just can't seem to deal with his quirks. The problem I have is that I absolutely love him to bits, and can't see myself parting with him. He's more than capable (he's won a BE100 in his previous life) but there are days when I struggle to get him over a 60cm cross pole, he ducks out and it wrecks what little jumping confidence I have.  

Took him to horse camp last year and we had a great time, I felt we'd turned a corner, but since then I've fallen off 5 times and feel I've really taken a jump back, that I'm further behind than I was a year ago.


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## Neptune (5 January 2016)

LotsOfGiftBags said:



			Me too! Also know exactly where the OP is coming from. I mentally understand riding, I work really hard at improving myself all the time but just feel as though I'm a completely crap rider. My horse doesn't help me out, in fact he's often described by my instructor as a nob, but I've got friends who would be able to do the things on him that I want to, I just can't seem to deal with his quirks. The problem I have is that I absolutely love him to bits, and can't see myself parting with him. He's more than capable (he's won a BE100 in his previous life) but there are days when I struggle to get him over a 60cm cross pole, he ducks out and it wrecks what little jumping confidence I have.  

Took him to horse camp last year and we had a great time, I felt we'd turned a corner, but since then I've fallen off 5 times and feel I've really taken a jump back, that I'm further behind than I was a year ago.
		
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This pretty much sums up where I am at present. 

Thanks all for your advise and stories. I love my horse and do not see myself parting with him he is quite talented when he puts the effort in and I just have to learn to ride out his quirks. I know in my head what to do it just does not seem to translate to my body! And my confidence has recently taken a bit of a knock. 

I know coming into summer when we can hack a bit more and get the fun back into the riding I will feel better about it all. My aim for this year is to just enjoy the riding and my horse, not to put to much pressure on myself and to override my confidence issues. Beyond that hopefully we will start to achieve a bit more the less I think about it! 

Thanks all


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## wench (5 January 2016)

When you find the answer please let me know...


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## ArcticFox (5 January 2016)

hello, apologies I haven't read all replies. this may have already been mentioned. 

I am a confident rider, having ridden all my life, and have had the opportunity to produce many horses over the years.

Just a few things to consider.  

Do you suffer from nerves?  if so, this is quite often the stalling point for most people to advance - at any level from grassroots up to the top -  as crippling nerves can be so difficult to overcome.  Nerves can prevent a rider having the ability to ride well out at competitions etc, it doesn't matter how many lessons you have unless you can address this. 

Do you have the right instructor?  I'm a firm believer in sticking with one instructor (usually you can tell after one lesson if you are likely to gel) for a decent period of time. avoid flitting around between one and a few others as they can be so contradictory - plus i've always found that the first lesson is always a bit rubbish as you are all getting to know each other and how far you can push them. Tell them your aims.  I have one jump instructor and one flat, and I don't often have other lessons with other folks. 

How capable is the horse?  I have a horse at the moment who has been there and done it, so to go out and jump a 1.10m track is fine, no real issues as its well within his comfort zone.  My other horse is just learning to jump 1.10 and above so it takes more planning to make sure I pick courses that suit him and I vary it by going above and back down into his comfort zone as its harder to rebuild confidence once its lost.  I have also ridden a few horses and jumped them round courses.  One in particular I jumped round a 1m track, he was good to ride as he was really well schooled but he never felt that he had the ooomph to jump a fence that high.  I would not be keen to jump him any higher and I would say that a BE90 is probably his maximum height that I would have jumped round with him. 
That said you also need to consider scope, but how wiling they are too.  A brave horse will give you a much better experience than a spooky horse with endless scope.

so basically what I'm saying is that you can do it,  but you shoudl consider all options and look realistically at your ability and the horses.  the sport is too expensive to not enjoy it.


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## JennBags (5 January 2016)

ArcticFox, your post makes complete sense, however to answer your points (OP sorry to hijack your post):

I do get nervous jumping, but not in dressage, I don't even get particularly bad competition nerves anymore. Even at dressage, we're almost always last or thereabouts, and I managed to fall off in the middle of a test a couple of months ago. At Hickstead  :rolleyes3:

I do believe I have the right instructor, yes. He's a fantastic instructor and my riding has improved no end with him. I've tried a few others since I've had this horse, but none of them compare. He's been my instructor for about 5 years, we know each other well (actually that's why I tried some others, in case it was that we were too familiar with each other but that's not the case).

My horse is (physically) more than capable of doing an 80-85cm SJ or XC round, and more than capable of doing a good novice test.  The problem is his brain, he gets incredibly tense at dressage; and with the jumping, well frankly sometimes he is just a git.  We can even do it together - sunshine tour day 3 combined training, we got c62% in the dressage (novice) and a lovely clear SJ (80cm), giving us 7th place. At the weekend, he ducked out at a 50-60cm cross-pole and I went flying. He's super-sharp, and when he goes, there's not a second of warning. 

I really see where you're coming from OP, but I'm still not planning on giving up trying quite yet. It's so disheartening some days, but I think I'd have a lot less self-respect if I gave it up just because it's hard. Maybe one day I'll get there!


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## Orangehorse (5 January 2016)

When you hear of people starting to ride very late - Paul Tapner, and the lady who was on the Olympic teams for Sweden, and even Victoria Pendleton - then it must be possible to be taught.  Admittedly, they proably had good horses too.

A big part of it is the WANTING.  Why be nervous about a dressage test?  What is there to be nervous about? Think positive, not negative.


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## ArcticFox (5 January 2016)

Lots of Gift bags - I think you can get there, but when you ride a horse that is a nob, then it takes so much longer and can feel never ending.  
I had a showjumper with endless scope who stopped without warning when I tried to take him BS.  he was awesome as a jumper until he realised we were BS.  I spent 3 years trying to make it work before I had to admit that despite his talent, he just did not want to event.  I ended up selling him and it turned out to be the right thing. he went on to do the job he enjoyed - pure SJ - and won lots.  I don't think you should lose self-respect if you give up - that's really only a call you can make yourself, but giving up is not wrong.  Not that I'm trying to convince you!  I'm just trying to show that its not always the wrong option.  

The horse I jumped - he stopped and dumped me at the first fence of a BE90.  this was only a couple of weeks after we'd won a 1m20 BS class (after he won the 1.10m Newcomers!).  its so frustrating but I never managed to get above a 90 within him.  since I have another horse I have won at BE100, and last year (on a superstar) I even completed my first Intermediate. 

I hope I'm making sense!  Everyone is capable, but there are many reasons why we don't make it.


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## _EVS_ (5 January 2016)

This is a tough one. I used to be a 'get on anything and get on with it' type of rider - no idea about striding etc but got on just fine! I bought a fab ISH ex novice BE horse who took me from 90cm to Fox in 4 months and I thought Id cracked it! I jumped 1.15s every weekend no problem. And then he died. So off I went full of confidence and bought a scopey, but spooky and sharp 7 yr old WB with the intention of going back out at Newcomers. Five and a half years later we are still fumbling around at BN and I can't see a stride for toffee. He is strong and I developed a hideous habit of holding him so he ended up in the bottom of the fence. His old owner had him back for 4 months this summer after I had a fall and he got 4 BN DCs for 2016 second rounds in a few outings. 

My point being therefore (as others have said) that we are both capable, but maybe not together?

I only recently got my own transport so I am going to give it a crack this year with more consistency I hope we'll improve but I think mostly it comes down to nerves nad confidence in what you are sat on. I have lost my bottle. There I said it! I dont know at what point it went but finding it is a damn sight harder than losing it hence the importance of a good partnership.

Sorry that was a bit rambling and off track! Long and the short of it OP, is you are not alone!!


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## Cortez (5 January 2016)

Yes, some people are the "unteachables", and some (well, very few actually) have an innate talent. MOST people are somewhere in between, and those are the teachable ones.


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## JennBags (5 January 2016)

What do you mean by the "unteachables" Cortez?


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## LEC (5 January 2016)

Fascinating thread but actually I think the key is what you do off the horse as much as what you do on it. I am fortunate and I have been riding all my life so find xc very easy but I have had to work really hard at the other aspects.

Things I do:
Read, read, read 
Watch hours of videos
Talk to people for hours
Take schoolmaster lessons
Watch other people have lessons
Watch the best compete and spend hours watching live if possible at events.
Volunteer to fence judge etc
Ask lots of questions
Ride as many horses as I can by offering up my time
Watch horsey people in action like vets, farriers etc and ask questions
Attend as many lectures and demos as possible.
Keep as fit as possible.

Frankly it's about working hard, giving up your time to learn and trying to improve.


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## loobylu (5 January 2016)

LEC said:



			Fascinating thread but actually I think the key is what you do off the horse as much as what you do on it. I am fortunate and I have been riding all my life so find xc very easy but I have had to work really hard at the other aspects.

Things I do:
Read, read, read 
Watch hours of videos
Talk to people for hours
Take schoolmaster lessons
Watch other people have lessons
Watch the best compete and spend hours watching live if possible at events.
Volunteer to fence judge etc
Ask lots of questions
Ride as many horses as I can by offering up my time
Watch horsey people in action like vets, farriers etc and ask questions
Attend as many lectures and demos as possible.
Keep as fit as possible.

Frankly it's about working hard, giving up your time to learn and trying to improve.
		
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This. Time, time and time. Money helps fast track.


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## rachk89 (5 January 2016)

My issue like others is confidence. People say I have the ability, I can tell you what to do for jumping, can see if a horse is about to refuse or knock a fence usually or what someone did wrong. Can I jump anything bigger than 50 cm?  No.

The coach I use for jumping gets really irritated with me for this. It's a mental block. I see a fence and every bit of knowledge leaves my head and I am left with this idiot in there running round in circles screaming "this is the end you are gonna die!".

If you believe you are capable of it I think that helps. I can do dressage no problem because I believe I can do it. I have no belief in myself for jumping although my coach does help. For some reason he can talk/trick me into doing things I never would normally do. Sounds stupid but belief helps.


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## Goldenstar (5 January 2016)

loobylu said:



			This. Time, time and time. Money helps fast track.
		
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Gill Watson once told me that three things make a great rider dedication talent and money two of three will do but all three is best .

It's very true if you think about it .


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## Mike007 (5 January 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			Gill Watson once told me that three things make a great rider dedication talent and money two of three will do but all three is best .

It's very true if you think about it .
		
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Missed one, LUCK . You need a hell of a lot of this too ,even if you have the other 3.


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## JFTDWS (5 January 2016)

I wonder about this.  I've all but given up jumping and, whilst I do love dressage, I do feel like sometimes we're just going round in circles...  And not just literally.

My competition record is worse than awful and no matter how much we seem to improve in training (at times) there's never any change in our scores.  In fact, there's very little difference in scores between the things that feel good and the things that feel awful.  It's why my affiliation lapsed and I've been out twice unaff last year.  I could sell my pony and buy something which would improve my scores, but I'm actually rather attached to him and he's never done anything to deserve selling.  And I probably couldn't do anything with a new horse anyway.  

I took him to a CRC event and he was scoring almost entirely 7s with some 8s (rather than the 5s and 6s we get at BD), but due to a bizarre quirk of calculation (and some very bad maths) still came out with scores in the mid 60s.  I'm not sure now if I'm rubbish or just cursed!


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## NZJenny (5 January 2016)

Jumping scares me silly - so I don't.

When I was much younger (away back last century) and was at Pony Club, eventing was everything - NZ in the 1980's you understand, so it was always all about the jumping.  I was hopeless at it, but felt I just had to keep on working at it, no matter how much it frightened me and how much I hated it.

Then I got older and wiser, and found other stuff that I was good at, and actually enjoyed - Arabians first which by natural progression led me to endurance riding and I never looked back.  All those years of thinking I was a crap rider faded into oblivion as I found something that I was not only good at, but loved doing.

From that came confidence and I think that riding is all about that.  If you don't think you can do it, you are probably right.  These days there is such a wide range of equestrian sports (horseback archery is on my wish list!), that you can do whatever your heart desires. I don't endurance ride anymore, but am loving learning about dressage from the ground up.   I have given jumping another go, but it's the same old - anything over about 12" and I feel sick to my stomach and that's no fun.  And horses are an expensive way to be miserable.


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## LadyGascoyne (6 January 2016)

NZJenny makes an excellent point, OP. 

There is far more to riding than jumping, dressage and cross country. Have you thought about pursuing a different style of riding or a different horse sport?

I'm thinking about trying some different disciplines when I get back in the saddle.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (6 January 2016)

i dont think its always the riding/lessons/horse bit that hold people back, its all the stuff in between. The yard work, horse care, planning, tweaking, changing, experimenting.

and thats the bit that takes feel and balls, just as much as the part on top of the horse.

i know people that spend a good whack on horses, train with top top riders and NEVER really progress because they struggle to use the info given to them in lessons, struggle to put it in to practice alone, struggle to use info from different sources in their own training plan, struggle to formulate a real training plan even. They have no feel for changing or experimenting stuff so tend to get stuck in a sour cycle.

thats what i see happening anyway.


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## Cortez (6 January 2016)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			i know people that spend a good whack on horses, train with top top riders and NEVER really progress because they struggle to use the info given to them in lessons, struggle to put it in to practice alone, struggle to use info from different sources in their own training plan, struggle to formulate a real training plan even. They have no feel for changing or experimenting stuff so tend to get stuck in a sour cycle.
		
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Very true: THOSE are the unteachables...........


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## 4faults (6 January 2016)

This is just how I feel, I have been riding for years but feel I have very much plateaued. A lot of it is to do with the fact that life is very full and money does not grow on trees. I'm hoping to turn things around a bit this year by setting myself some goals and finding a new instructor


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## Goldenstar (6 January 2016)

Goal setting is a powerful tool .
When I am not bumming around I have short ,within the next month ,medium ,three month and long a yearish goals .
I write them down in a book each horse has it's own book .
And then I use  the book for comment notes after clinics things I have heard to try etc etc .
I make a plan of how I am going to get each goal.  
IME to work well goals have to realistic and time limited .


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## 4faults (6 January 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			Goal setting is a powerful tool .
When I am not bumming around I have short ,within the next month ,medium ,three month and long a yearish goals .
I write them down in a book each horse has it's own book .
And then I use  the book for comment notes after clinics things I have heard to try etc etc .
I make a plan of how I am going to get each goal.  
IME to work well goals have to realistic and time limited .
		
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I love this idea Goldenstar, I think I'm going to steal it


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## blood_magik (6 January 2016)

unfortunately, some people are just (sickening) talented and go through the levels without having to slog their guts out to get there, whereas others have to shed blood, sweat and tears and it takes years to get the results they want...

have you asked your instructor why you're not improving (assuming you have one)?

If I were you, I would maybe see about having a lesson with a different instructor. a fresh set of eyes could work wonders and they may have a few tricks up their sleeve that could help - what works for one person/horse doesn't necessarily work for everyone. &#128578;


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## Caol Ila (6 January 2016)

Yes.  Me.  That's why I quit dressage shows more than a decade ago.  I didn't need to pay hundreds of bucks every week to be told that I still sucked.  Never enough coordination or body awareness to 'make' it above American Second Level (Medium or so in British) or get very good scores at that level -- and yes, I was taking lessons, going to clinics, yadda yadda yadda.   It was easier and more fun to work less hard and get to the same place (nowhere) without the pain of riding dressage tests at shows, working your ass off to get yet another 58%.  Screw that, man.  I wasn't enough of a masochist; I figured out that myself and horse were happier when I just enjoyed doing what we could do.


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## Goldenstar (6 January 2016)

Caol Ila said:



			Yes.  Me.  That's why I quit dressage shows more than a decade ago.  I didn't need to pay hundreds of bucks every week to be told that I still sucked.  Never enough coordination or body awareness to 'make' it above American Second Level (Medium or so in British) or get very good scores at that level -- and yes, I was taking lessons, going to clinics, yadda yadda yadda.   It was easier and more fun to work less hard and get to the same place (nowhere) without the pain of riding dressage tests at shows, working your ass off to get yet another 58%.  Screw that, man.  I wasn't enough of a masochist; I figured out that myself and horse were happier when I just enjoyed doing what we could do.
		
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That's a goal in it's self .
Goals don't have to be competitive we just tend to think they are .
As a younger rider I would not have known that but as I have got older I see that a goal is a goal enjoying hacking or I will get my horse to the beach for aride  x times a month is as valid a goal as I will do a medium by August or something like that .


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## coffeeandabagel (7 January 2016)

I remember posting something very similar to this a while ago - was feeling very blue. Some things have changed - I have a horse (on loan) that helps me whereas my own horse doesn't - she is too much inside her own little world. So some things have got better but I still really struggle to feel when I am riding.
My main instructor has the patience of a saint and is learning to come up with very visual ways of explaining things ie make my arms like a choo choo train to keep the elbows bent and to give, sounds babyish but I choo choo round the school and the horse appreciates it!
She has recommended I get more all round fitness and said it has helped her train another rider - somehow they get it more - whether its better physical strength, flexibility or increased body awareness I don't know but pilates is my aim for this month.


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## electric_circus (7 January 2016)

blood_magik said:



			unfortunately, some people are just (sickening) talented and go through the levels without having to slog their guts out to get there, whereas others have to shed blood, sweat and tears and it takes years to get the results they want...

have you asked your instructor why you're not improving (assuming you have one)?

If I were you, I would maybe see about having a lesson with a different instructor. a fresh set of eyes could work wonders and they may have a few tricks up their sleeve that could help - what works for one person/horse doesn't necessarily work for everyone.
		
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I'm not sure that's true.  I have competed at a high level in another non-equestrian sport and from pure rankings over the years it probably seems as though I was successful very quickly... in reality I was training twice a day, every day, had instruction from a top coach and was competing at weekends as well!  Yeah ok, I did have some aptitude for the sport in question, but without hard work talent is only a small part of the equation.  Talent is often also lazy... you see people who are talented but not training effortfully plateauing as those around them improve.  Totally agree with the change of instructor being a good idea too; sometimes it is a simple as them being able to explain something in a way that is comprehensible to you or spotting something about your technique that is impeding you.


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## 4faults (7 January 2016)

Well I have given myself a kick up the backside thanks to this thread, two lessons booked for this month and a show pencilled in to my newly purchased diary for next month. Fingers crossed


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## hippocobamus (8 January 2016)

Although everybody has different levels of competency and natural ability, I do think the right horse can make a huge difference. Riding a naturally athletic horse that is not hampered by underlying physical or behavioural problems makes it so much easier to improve than riding a horse that is not built for the job, or for some reason, finds it difficult to match the riders expectations and isn't confident to 'help out' when a rider gets it wrong.

Saying that, I stick to my little hippocob as he's exactly what I need for what I want to do, but if I wanted to do more, then I wouldn't expect him to be the right horse to help me out on a duff stride around a BE100 - he'd need to be placed properly at each fence in order to get around such a course, and a rider such as myself would not be able to do that.


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## JennBags (8 January 2016)

4faults said:



			Well I have given myself a kick up the backside thanks to this thread, two lessons booked for this month and a show pencilled in to my newly purchased diary for next month. Fingers crossed
		
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Me too, I'm also going to take GS's idea of writing down some goals - I set them in my head, but think I need to put them down on paper, and break them down into smaller chunks.

Although just had a small set-back as had to cancel my lesson as G wasn't quite right, hopefully just a short-term thing.


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## EQUIDAE (8 January 2016)

I have always been the rubbish rider of all my friends (I did my first intro whereas my friends are out doing foxhunter and BE100). Now I do a schedule for mine and try to stick to it, and then goals for each day.

Mon - day off
Tues - lunge/longline/inhand
Weds - Flat schooling
Thurs - loose jumping (if flat lesson planned for fri)
Fri - Lesson alternate jumping and flat
Sat - Relaxing slow long hack
Sun - Short hack with some fast work and jumping if we have only jumped once in the week

I only really jump in lessons and as a result I never progress as quickly as I would like - note to self DO MORE!

I also have a timeframe of what I want to achieve and by when - the end of last year I wanted to be jumping 80cm uprights and 60cm spread and I did  The plan was to do my first intro dressage and I did this on 30th Dec  With fixed plans and a goal in mind I seem to make progress, when bumbling along I wasted a whole year once barely riding...

ETA - I am so picky about my riding that I wouldn't compete till I knew I was ready. I'm not one of those brave enough to just have a go.


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## star (8 January 2016)

I think the right horse is key. I also learnt to ride in a riding school and didn't get my own horse until I was 19. He was great at dressage and gave me really fab experience at Novice / Elementary but he was awful at jumping and eventually put me in hospital with one of his dirty run outs. I didn't jump again for years and was quite frankly terrified of it until I got Llewi who taught me to love XC and hunting but he also hated SJ.  

When I got Monty I still hadn't ever jumped a SJ course over 2ft6. We have now competed up to 1.05m BSJA so up to 1m15 in the 2nd phase. Also gone clear round Badminton Grassroots BE100. And I've trained him from Prelim to Advanced Medium and hoping to go Advanced this year.   He has been totally awesome but he's nothing special to look at - just a 15.2hh TB X Welsh Cob with a fab attitude. He certainly has his quirks to keep me on my toes but he does try really hard to please.  I have some great trainers who have really inspired me to keep pushing myself and stay focused. 

Having goals in mind really helps me keep pushing on. I have a goal in mind for each schooling session, then I have more long term competition aims like doing an Advanced by summer. In order to make that goal I know I need to conquer my 3 time changes and half canter pirouettes and in order to do those I need to get my individual changes on request wherever I want them etc etc. Set the long term goals then work out what short term ones you need to meet first and make deadlines to keep you focused. Lots of people comment on how far I've managed to get with Monty. I don't think I'm especially talented at all, but I am really focused and hard working and take everything I can from every lesson. Also have a blog to record it all and track progress.


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## Pigeon (8 January 2016)

I think fitness and strength is a major factor, as is having an instructor who is invested in you, and setting goals. After that it's just getting out there. I still feel like a fraud competing at the level I do, but I'm always pleasantly surprised by our scores. I think if you wait til everything's perfect, you might miss out on fun opportunities. 

Also you're probably better than you realise. If you're critical of your riding, at least you know what needs work, and that is the first step to improvement.


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## Cowpony (8 January 2016)

I think it also depends on whether you are both learning together, or if one of you is able to teach the other.  It's so much harder if you are teaching a horse something new, but you've never done it either.  That's why it's sometimes good to have lessons on another horse, so you can get the feel of what you are after, learn the correct aids and then teach your horse to give you that feeling.


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## Cortez (8 January 2016)

Cowpony said:



			I think it also depends on whether you are both learning together, or if one of you is able to teach the other.  It's so much harder if you are teaching a horse something new, but you've never done it either.  That's why it's sometimes good to have lessons on another horse, so you can get the feel of what you are after, learn the correct aids and then teach your horse to give you that feeling.
		
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Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.


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## Cowpony (8 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.
		
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I'm not necessarily talking about advanced stuff.  My mare had never done dressage when I bought her (she's a jumping pony from choice) and I'd only ever done one test, when I was about 12.  We're now consistently scoring high 60s at Prelim and will move up to Novice this year.  We'd have got there a lot quicker if one of us had been more experienced, but it is possible when you are both learning, albeit more slowly.  I have a great instructor and occasional lessons on a been-there-done-that horse, which has helped.  Could I teach my mare to piaffe?  Not in a million years!  But I take great pride in the level she is at at the moment and I don't think it is over-ambitious for us to aim for Elementary at the right time.  Which might be next year or 3 years from now.  The great thing is, it's not a race!


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## JFTDWS (8 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.
		
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Well that's my problem right there.  I've made it as far as having established all the relevant lateral work and can move between it fairly seamlessly, without having ever ridden another horse which can do it.  But changes, canter piris and piaffe/passage are a bit of a stumbling block at the moment.  

Although without decent access to a school, plus another couple of months lost without a saddle again this year (I do a lot bareback, but there are limits!), perhaps my expectations for progress are too high!


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## Neptune (8 January 2016)

Thanks all. Some good ideas and food for thought all at the same time. A lot of points hitting home but also good to know I am not alone in my feelings. 

I try to set myself goals and break them down to help reach them but the months just seem to pass by so quick before I have a chance to establish each broken down point of the main goal. 

I love my horse he is talented but not always helpful to me. He does require pushing to get the best out of him and sometimes I feel as if I can not always get him there, even though another day I may do. It is so Jekyll and Hyde with him. I do not see myself parting with him though as when it is good it is very good. Just we do seem to have more down days than up days. But guess the more experienced I come in being able to get the best out of him in will set me up for any future horses I may ride. I know once I have cracked it with him there will be no stopping us, it's just taking longer than I had hoped for.


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## star (8 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.
		
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Sadly we don't all have access to schoolmasters.  I've managed to teach mine to do tempi changes (so far up to 3 times) having never ridden a flying change before.  My trainer has just offered me a ride on her GP horse which will be amazing as it will be so much easier to have ridden the movements on something knowledgable before I try and teach mine.  Sure we'd have progressed quicker if I'd had a schoolmaster to learn on but it's not impossible to do it yourself.


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## Bernster (9 January 2016)

star said:



			I think the right horse is key. I also learnt to ride in a riding school and didn't get my own horse until I was 19. He was great at dressage and gave me really fab experience at Novice / Elementary but he was awful at jumping and eventually put me in hospital with one of his dirty run outs. I didn't jump again for years and was quite frankly terrified of it until I got Llewi who taught me to love XC and hunting but he also hated SJ.  

When I got Monty I still hadn't ever jumped a SJ course over 2ft6. We have now competed up to 1.05m BSJA so up to 1m15 in the 2nd phase. Also gone clear round Badminton Grassroots BE100. And I've trained him from Prelim to Advanced Medium and hoping to go Advanced this year.   He has been totally awesome but he's nothing special to look at - just a 15.2hh TB X Welsh Cob with a fab attitude. He certainly has his quirks to keep me on my toes but he does try really hard to please.  I have some great trainers who have really inspired me to keep pushing myself and stay focused. 

Having goals in mind really helps me keep pushing on. I have a goal in mind for each schooling session, then I have more long term competition aims like doing an Advanced by summer. In order to make that goal I know I need to conquer my 3 time changes and half canter pirouettes and in order to do those I need to get my individual changes on request wherever I want them etc etc. Set the long term goals then work out what short term ones you need to meet first and make deadlines to keep you focused. Lots of people comment on how far I've managed to get with Monty. I don't think I'm especially talented at all, but I am really focused and hard working and take everything I can from every lesson. Also have a blog to record it all and track progress.
		
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Wow, I've followed some of your reports and thought how fab you've been doing. Hadn't realised where you started, that's impressive stuff!


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## Goldenstar (9 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.
		
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While it's certainly easier if you have access to a schoolmaster it's not impossible without .
But you do need the right horse and the right help.


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## EQUIDAE (9 January 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			While it's certainly easier if you have access to a schoolmaster it's not impossible without .
But you do need the right horse and the right help.
		
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Agreed - I was perfectly happy backing and schooling on my mare but fine edged someone else to teach her to jump. I was too picky with who I would let near her so ended up doing it myself - I went from only having jumped little cross poles to jumping 80cm. Not ideal but she's a gem


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## only_me (9 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.
		
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See, I don't agree with this. I enjoy bringing on young horses and teaching them. I'm lucky in that I've currently got a horse who I've had from a 4 year old And from the moment that i sat on him we clicked. He loves to work but is easy with it. 
I've never got to the level we are at now before. Maximum was elementary with previous horses. 
But I managed to teach him HP in canter & trot, half pirouettes, flying changes and now we can do 3 time changes. From reading a few books at home & watching how the GP riders ride each movement so I could understand the aids/movement more. I know i should get a lesson to learn what the aids/movements are, but my horse will still ride differently so I need to understand the methods behind the movement.

  But you can't teach yourself and the horse from a book. Which is what i think a lot of people are doing atm - they can't cope with horses that aren't what the textbook says, they can't understand WHY the horse is doing what it's doing & WHY it doesn't look like the book. Then they don't understand how do fix whatever is going wrong. So they either ignore and continue on (or forget about flatwork and just jump, which is what happens in pc a lot) or they get a lesson & work on the problem, or they ring the vet who gets very happy as the rider wants a complete check up done as the horse MUST be in pain because it's not working right. 

every horse is different so I focus on what the movement should LOOK like and then break it down into how do get it. And work out how it corresponds to how my horse moves & the best way of learning it will be.
Eg. I know what a change should look like. I know what the "normal" methods of teaching are. But i also know that doing a change over a pole wouldn't work for my horse. But I know my horse is good at walk to canter. And I know that doing a flying change whilst  changing direction is the easiest option.  So I focused on a very rounded figure of 8. Whilst changing rein over middle of school I started by doing simple changes. Once he was expecting I asked for a direct lead change over the same place (all the changes were done "up" the arena) and made my weight change in the saddle very obvious. When he was happy doing them I reduced my weight change until it was v subtle. Over a few sessions then made the rounded direction change so we were doing changes on the diagonal. Then progressed onto straight lines & now we can even do 3 time. But it's just for fun - I enjoyed doing it. It probably isnt the textbook way of teaching a horse - but since when has a horse been textbook?


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## Cortez (9 January 2016)

Believe me, getting expert tuition on a correctly trained horse is one million times easier (for you, and mostly for the horse, and the one you are going to train in the future) than trying to bungle through all sorts of misconceptions. It's always been the way classical riding has been passed on.


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## only_me (9 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			Believe me, getting expert tuition on a correctly trained horse is one million times easier (for you, and mostly for the horse, and the one you are going to train in the future) than trying to bungle through all sorts of misconceptions. It's always been the way classical riding has been passed on.
		
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Easy if you have access to a correctly trained advanced level schoolmaster, but since the majority of us don't, then we have to learn a different way. 

OP,  I think that everyone is as a good as the work they put in. Just because you don't win out at a comp doesn't mean you can't ride, it's looking for the small victories when out competing. Eg. Did horse behave in warm up? Did I remember test? Did I keep a better contact etc. If everyone won everytime they went out there wouldn't be a competition 

Plus, riding horses is meant to be fun, which I think we've all forgotten at points. Especially this winter lol. I know I have!


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## Goldenstar (9 January 2016)

I do not subcribe to the view that the only people who can learn to ride and train well are those that have ridden piaffe on Dads stallion while still being breastfed .
From Carl Hester to Mary king I can just think of too many people who it does not apply to.


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## star (10 January 2016)

Bernster said:



			Wow, I've followed some of your reports and thought how fab you've been doing. Hadn't realised where you started, that's impressive stuff!
		
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Thanks - Monty has been an absolute gem.  Absolutely love him!  Personal best of 67% at Medium BD today and nearly 64% in the Advanced Medium in atrocious weather.  Can't wait to get my tailcoat ready for some Advanced!  Ever since I started riding I wanted to ride in top hat and tails.  It keeps me motivated through the yucky winters and through the setbacks and injuries.  Each time we get to a new level we start with wanting 60%, then 65% then it's 70% and suddenly the next level is achievable.  Thought my trainer was nuts when she said we could do Advanced Medium.  Still think she's nuts as it's now moved on to PSG but really hope she's right!  We've reached our limits with jumping but dressage you can just keep on going!


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## NZJenny (10 January 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			I do not subcribe to the view that the only people who can learn to ride and train well are those that have ridden piaffe on Dads stallion while still being breastfed .
From Carl Hester to Mary king I can just think of too many people who it does not apply to.
		
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LOL - too true!  I never thought I would ever ride half pass - in my world it was a way up there in the lofty never, never of dressage.  But with the right teacher, the ex endurance horse and I bumbled our way thru it.  I may never ride it in a competition, but there is time yet!


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## Cortez (10 January 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			I do not subcribe to the view that the only people who can learn to ride and train well are those that have ridden piaffe on Dads stallion while still being breastfed .
From Carl Hester to Mary king I can just think of too many people who it does not apply to.
		
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Carl Hester had the advantage of riding advanced horses from an early age (teenager, with the Bechtolsheimers), and Mary King, well she's an eventer and SUPPOSED to get by on guts and blood  

It's not ONLY the people who have access to schoolmasters that can advance, but it makes learning 100 times easier and faster, and also more correct. Why are people getting ruffled feathers because I've advocated learning from someone (or horse, preferably) that knows how to do it? Is it because it is unusual/unavailable in the UK?


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## loobylu (10 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			Carl Hester had the advantage of riding advanced horses from an early age (teenager, with the Bechtolsheimers), and Mary King, well she's an eventer and SUPPOSED to get by on guts and blood  

It's not ONLY the people who have access to schoolmasters that can advance, but it makes learning 100 times easier and faster, and also more correct. Why are people getting ruffled feathers because I've advocated learning from someone (or horse, preferably) that knows how to do it? Is it because it is unusual/unavailable in the UK?
		
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I think it perhaps makes us feel a little defensive, as, in my part of the world anyway, such an advanced horse available for lessons is all but impossible to find. I personally agree with you- I've had it at a lower level having had the opportunity to sit on a couple of horses working at medium, I at least have an idea of what I'm aiming for with the young, green and mucked up horses and ponies I come across in my day to day life. I think medium/ adv med is a useful level, as it is a level of flatwork useful for any discipline so very transferable.


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## loobylu (10 January 2016)

Also, there is a difference between riding well and winning lots. Sometimes the two collide, but I get beaten by plenty of people who I do not aspire to ride like!


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## Goldenstar (10 January 2016)

loobylu said:



			Also, there is a difference between riding well and winning lots. Sometimes the two collide, but I get beaten by plenty of people who I do not aspire to ride like!
		
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There's no need ever to go to a competition to ride well , we tend to equate competing and riding well and perhaps the desire to do high level stuff with riding well but the they aren't linked .


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## JFTDWS (10 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			It's not ONLY the people who have access to schoolmasters that can advance, but it makes learning 100 times easier and faster, and also more correct. Why are people getting ruffled feathers because I've advocated learning from someone (or horse, preferably) that knows how to do it? Is it because it is unusual/unavailable in the UK?
		
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Dunno, it seems a reasonable enough perspective to me.  Although the absence of a schoolmaster in my life isn't going to stop me messing around and trying 



loobylu said:



			Also, there is a difference between riding well and winning lots. Sometimes the two collide, but I get beaten by plenty of people who I do not aspire to ride like!
		
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With bells on.


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## Neptune (10 January 2016)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			i dont think its always the riding/lessons/horse bit that hold people back, its all the stuff in between. The yard work, horse care, planning, tweaking, changing, experimenting.

and thats the bit that takes feel and balls, just as much as the part on top of the horse.

i know people that spend a good whack on horses, train with top top riders and NEVER really progress because they struggle to use the info given to them in lessons, struggle to put it in to practice alone, struggle to use info from different sources in their own training plan, struggle to formulate a real training plan even. They have no feel for changing or experimenting stuff so tend to get stuck in a sour cycle.

thats what i see happening anyway.
		
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Prince33Sp4rkle - can you clarify on the above points please (or any one else that can?) what do you mean by tweaking / changing and experimenting? Think I know what you mean but if I am wrong then I am one of the unteachables! Lol! 

Not disagreeing with the above I believe (of what I understand) to agree with you. So was just Hoping for clarification to help me make any changes needed to help my self. Thank you


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## EQUIDAE (10 January 2016)

I can't 'do' schoolmasters - I'm only short so the buttons are never in the right place for me


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## Goldenstar (10 January 2016)

EQUIDAE said:



			I can't 'do' schoolmasters - I'm only short so the buttons are never in the right place for me 

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The place I was trained years ago had a Grand Prix 14.3 school master you would have loved him.


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## EQUIDAE (10 January 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			The place I was trained years ago had a Grand Prix 14.3 school master you would have loved him.
		
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Soooo jealous!


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## Tern (10 January 2016)

EQUIDAE said:



			Soooo jealous!
		
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Where are you? Talland School of Equitation has Grand Prix trained 14.2 connemara!  She loves to show off all her tricks - will piaffe and do changes for the whole hour if you let her lol.

Honestly, look at the 12 year old kids who are competing at Advanced Medium already - they are only there because their parents have money - money for the lessons and ponies. 

I personally despise dressage but if I want to event I need to get my bum in gear and find an instructor to scream at me a bit as dressage is everything nowadays lol.

I will jump anything but it regularly doesn't go right and that's due to my own fault - I try and jump for the horse and I know these habits but with my flat-jumping, still-needs-schooling mare I am having to improve her before I can improve myself.


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## HotToTrot (10 January 2016)

I have a question for everyone on this thread!  How many people are on your yard, and how many of those people have done all three of the things that Neptune describes (60% at Nov, successful completion of 1m SJ and 90cm ODE)?  On my yard, about 30, and precisely 3.  That is 10%.  

It's not as easy as you might think, Neptune!  Most people don't even try to do it.  You are out there trying to do it, so be a bit proud of that, at least. 

You're frustrated that you're not making as much progress as you'd like.  Take a look at what you can change.  Your mindset, your training, possibly, yes, your horse.  I know it's so easy to say that your horse is capable, therefore if you're not getting there, it's your fault, but that's far too simplistic!  Not every rider clicks with every horse and also, I dispute that every horse is capable of doing what you say.  

In your position, I'd get some really good lessons with the best person you can find.  Perhaps have a pro sit on your horse.  I agree that people have their natural limits - but it sounds like you haven't hit yours yet, so get out there and find out where it is.


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## HotToTrot (10 January 2016)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			i dont think its always the riding/lessons/horse bit that hold people back, its all the stuff in between. The yard work, horse care, planning, tweaking, changing, experimenting.

and thats the bit that takes feel and balls, just as much as the part on top of the horse.

i know people that spend a good whack on horses, train with top top riders and NEVER really progress because they struggle to use the info given to them in lessons, struggle to put it in to practice alone, struggle to use info from different sources in their own training plan, struggle to formulate a real training plan even. They have no feel for changing or experimenting stuff so tend to get stuck in a sour cycle.

thats what i see happening anyway.
		
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YES.  That'd be me in the dressage.  Oh, my horse is going really well.  Oh, look, that's because I've got a top DR trainer standing in front of me.  Oh, I'm riding on why own.  Oh, look, my horse has turned into a giraffe.


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## star (10 January 2016)

HotToTrot said:



			I have a question for everyone on this thread!  How many people are on your yard, and how many of those people have done all three of the things that Neptune describes (60% at Nov, successful completion of 1m SJ and 90cm ODE)?  On my yard, about 30, and precisely 3.  That is 10%.  

It's not as easy as you might think, Neptune!  Most people don't even try to do it.  You are out there trying to do it, so be a bit proud of that, at least.
		
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There are 16 at my yard. I'm the only one to have done any of those things, let alone all 3.


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## Bernster (11 January 2016)

star said:



			There are 16 at my yard. I'm the only one to have done any of those things, let alone all 3.
		
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Similar as you and HTT - a few more do unaff dressage but only 1/2 affiliate at the moment,and only the YMs successfully compete or event. Maybe we're all assuming people are at a higher level than most of them are!


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## Golden_Match_II (11 January 2016)

My instructor teaches a huge variety of people from PC tiny tots, to me and my friends (Young Riders aiming at BE teams etc), to RC women, to people aiming for Rio. She also teaches PC tests, and always stresses to everyone that riding well is not the same thing as winning lots of competitions (which I could not understand until I was about 19!) I think it's worth remembering this - someone who rides beautifully may not have the right temperament for competition, but that doesn't mean they'll never be any good! So don't be too hard on yourself.

Lots of good advice here too. I'd just say keep on with the lessons, and don't measure yourself against random arbitrary goal posts because you will move them the better you get and it won't make you happy!


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (11 January 2016)

Neptune said:



			Prince33Sp4rkle - can you clarify on the above points please (or any one else that can?) what do you mean by tweaking / changing and experimenting? Think I know what you mean but if I am wrong then I am one of the unteachables! Lol! 

Not disagreeing with the above I believe (of what I understand) to agree with you. So was just Hoping for clarification to help me make any changes needed to help my self. Thank you 

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its the ability to not get stuck in a rut, to not take things too literally, to be able to accept when one thing isnt working and try it slightly differently, to be able to look outside the box.

as someone else has said you cannot train a horse from books, very few have read the books, none of them conform to the ideal, you need to have enough self confidence and be able to look in to the future to a degree, to understand that perfection isnt instant, and there will be many less than ideal sessions along the way. If you are too scared of changing something and making it worse, you will be so scared you never change it and make it better.

horses are very forgiving and as long as you hold your hands up and say "sorry,that was my fault" they dont really mind when the goal posts change again.


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## Neptune (11 January 2016)

Thanks for your words of encoragement HTT. Thinking about my yard there is not many that could complete a 60% at novice. But although not many people compete there are several of them who have the ability and confidence to jump over a metre. Although would they be able to complete a course of this size at a competition venue, who knows. After all this is a totally different scenario to jumping a single fence at home. 

I just have to keep pushing and trying and find out what works for myself I guess to get us there.


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## blood_magik (11 January 2016)

HotToTrot said:



			I have a question for everyone on this thread!  How many people are on your yard, and how many of those people have done all three of the things that Neptune describes (60% at Nov, successful completion of 1m SJ and 90cm ODE)?  On my yard, about 30, and precisely 3.  That is 10%.
		
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The yard I'm on has approximately 80 livery clients and out of them all, I'd say maybe two have managed all three. That's just over 2%.


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## Neptune (11 January 2016)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			its the ability to not get stuck in a rut, to not take things too literally, to be able to accept when one thing isnt working and try it slightly differently, to be able to look outside the box.

as someone else has said you cannot train a horse from books, very few have read the books, none of them conform to the ideal, you need to have enough self confidence and be able to look in to the future to a degree, to understand that perfection isnt instant, and there will be many less than ideal sessions along the way. If you are too scared of changing something and making it worse, you will be so scared you never change it and make it better.

horses are very forgiving and as long as you hold your hands up and say "sorry,that was my fault" they dont really mind when the goal posts change again.
		
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Thank you for clarifying. It does make sense, if one thing isn't working, try another way. Maybe something I do need to incorporate more, think outside the box of what I currently know. Will remember this. Thank you


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## Goldenstar (11 January 2016)

HotToTrot said:



			YES.  That'd be me in the dressage.  Oh, my horse is going really well.  Oh, look, that's because I've got a top DR trainer standing in front of me.  Oh, I'm riding on why own.  Oh, look, my horse has turned into a giraffe.
		
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That was a bit like me .
Until I learnt how to learn better.
It was a huge moment for me when I cracked this .
When I have a lesson I am in a system .
I warm as I would at home , then I work the horse I would work being careful to show what I think I need to.
Then usually the trainer stops you and you have a chat then they start the training at this point I click a switch in my brain and concentrate only on what they are saying and doing it .
After a bit switch to another place and start to do my own thing  keeping the points exercises in mind that the trainer has raised .
This helps me to feel the benefits within my system and let's the trainer see more of how I am approaching things I think it helps to embed stuff better in my mind and makes it's easier to remember how what your being told affects the work .
You might have several of these sections during a lesson the trainer trains you give yourself up to it then you take the idea off on your own .
Have a training book helps .
I have one per horse and it used for all sort of stuff .
I write up each lesson ASAP after it usually in the wagon before I drive home .


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## ajn1610 (11 January 2016)

That's awfully hard on yourself! Try to reframe your expectations into just enjoying it, if you relax and take the pressure off I'm sure it'll be easier.
Are you capable of completing what you're describe successfully at home? Do you have an ability issue or a issue at competitions? 
If it's the former forget competing for a while, if you are having lessons and not improving change instructors and don't put on the pressure of a competition until you are comfortable training a level above where you want to be competitive. If it's the later try some NLP or Sport Psychology sessions. The book 'Perfect Mind, Perfect Ride' is a good place to start while you find a professional in your area with an equine background. 

To answer your question in a general way, everyone can improve. I don't believe there is such a thing as a natural rider although some people have physical, mental (and financial!) attributes that make their journey easier. I do think the main barrier that prevents some people progressing is that they are not very analytical or reflective. You need to have a good grasp of cause and effect, be self aware and perceptive to become really competent as a rider and that is quite difficult to 'train' into people. There are really good instructors who can definitely help though and doing things like lunge lessons, lessons on school masters, training for the ridden elements of BHS exams really help to move you on too.


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