# Neutering a Red Setter- effect on coat?



## shanksmare (10 December 2010)

Hi all, 
Just wondering if anyone has had any experience of neutering a male red setter and what effect, if any, it had on his coat?  I've heard that neutering can change the coat from the nice glossy deep red colour and good condition to a shorter, coarser type hair that is more ginger than deep conker in colour. 
However I've also been told that the coat can be improved again post-neutering by extra grooming (not sure if this means clipping the coat to encourage re-growth or just extra grooming to promote natural oils etc). 
Any help/advice/experience would be greatly appreciated....


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## EAST KENT (11 December 2010)

Just don`t do it! The dogs wonderful shiney smooth laying coat will go forever,replaced by an undercoat and then a dreadful blonde fluffy overjacket,that will need clipping to get any shape back.It ruins them .


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## PucciNPoni (11 December 2010)

Yep neutering can affect many breeds coats...but it's most dramatic on a red setter.  It tends to go to a fluffy undercoat all over.  If you persevere yourself and keep handstripping it religiously, you MIGHT retain some of the deep red.  But IMO, this never happens because people often don't have the dedication it takes to really keep it in order.  I don't have a HUGE experience with red setters, so maybe I'm just seeing a small population of setter owners that are just not that groom happy?


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## s4sugar (11 December 2010)

As above. 

Neutering cam turn a glossy red coated dog into a yellow fluffy mess. Hand stripping can help but this is a breed where neutering always affects the coat, some more than others but the effect can be tufts or can be all over.
The undercoat that grows may not be shorter and can resemble that of an old English sheepdog on the body. Clipping may keep it manageable but won't restore the colour or texture.


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## Vizslak (11 December 2010)

does it matter? Presumably if you are neutering then you aren't showing him so whats the issue?


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## EAST KENT (11 December 2010)

Simply because it turns a creature of beauty into a complete mess,and is usually completely un-necessary.Irish setters are superb creatures in good coat..why ruin that?


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## Vizslak (11 December 2010)

Why completely unnecessary?! I would deem having a healthy happy neutered dog more important than what their coat looked like. If the OP is considering neutering there is presumably a reason for that. If the dog isnt going to show and isnt good enough to breed from then I really cant see why it matters what its coat looks like!?


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## CorvusCorax (11 December 2010)

I'm just happy my dog HAS a coat  he has no balls for a reason, he's not good enough to breed from, plus he's sable so his coat is always going to be a nightmare anyway.
No knowledge of setters but if he is your dog, you love him and he is happy, who cares what he looks like?


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## shanksmare (11 December 2010)

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm still undecided about what to do. My dog is a pet and will not be used for breeding or showing so the responsible owner part of me is leaning towards neutering but the vain part of me is horrified at the though of ruining his beautiful coat! 
I also have an English Setter, black & white or blue belton in colour. I presume the same would apply to his coat? Although I'm guessing the effect would be more obvious in texture than colour in his case. 
Hmmmm...lots to ponder. The Red Setter is 14 months and the English Setter is only 5 months old.


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## MurphysMinder (12 December 2010)

No experience of setters, but have to say my bitches who have been spayed do get a coarser , woolly coat.  However, Saff wasn't spayed, she had a lovely coat people commented on, but unfortunately I lost her to a pyometra,  no ifs or buts, it wouldn't have happened if she had been spayed.  Personally I would have your dog castrated, the health benefits would outweight the appearance for me.


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## SusieT (12 December 2010)

TBH, although I am a strong advocate of neutering, I can very much see the OP's point of view. Yes, you may love your dog no matter what, but you may enjoy them more if they have a gorgeous, shiney coat as opposed to what sounds like.. a mess! I would be interested to see pics of neutered/non neutered setters to compare and see how bad it is?
It is something only the OP can decide on, the health benefit of neutering (and let's not forget GA does carry risk too, although it is a simple procedure) versus the beauty benefit of not..


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## s4sugar (12 December 2010)

I found this photo online of one of the better spay coats I've seen on an Irish.
http://absoluteyorkies.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Beautiful-Irish-Setter.jpg
but they can be golden, tufty and at worst cottony which mats despite decent grooming.


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## PucciNPoni (12 December 2010)

I agree, that's not a bad coat on a Setter - though it could be that it's been well maintained with regular stripping (eg rolling) of the coat.  

My own personal opinion is that if you feel the dog's best interest (regardless of the coat) is to neuter, than do so.  The coat is more or less secondary - and that's coming from a dog groomer that hates neutered coats!


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## MotherOfChickens (12 December 2010)

hi-havent read all replies. neutering my red setter did knacker his coat-he had to be neutered though due to a retained testicle and I knew that when I got him. if I were to get another I would consider not neutering (and I am very pro-neutering). I do his coat myself and mainly keep it short by clipping-a setter's coat is quite alot of work and I don't always keep on top of it although he's always mat-free.he can look (and sound) like a wookie  he's a top dog, lovely character.


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## CAYLA (12 December 2010)

Even though I groom and agree neutering can change, texture, thickness of coat, I personally would not leave my dog un neutered for the sake of coat, I also work in a veterinary environment so see both sides, the health issues that come with not neutering and obs the coats I groom, and still, I would neuter, a good groom aslong as your help inbetween will keep the coat best it can be.


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## EAST KENT (12 December 2010)

shanksmare said:



			Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm still undecided about what to do. My dog is a pet and will not be used for breeding or showing so the responsible owner part of me is leaning towards neutering but the vain part of me is horrified at the though of ruining his beautiful coat! 
I also have an English Setter, black & white or blue belton in colour. I presume the same would apply to his coat? Although I'm guessing the effect would be more obvious in texture than colour in his case. 
Hmmmm...lots to ponder. The Red Setter is 14 months and the English Setter is only 5 months old.
		
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If it is just the possibility of  the boys breeding that is worrying you,there is always "having the snip/aka vasectomy" for them.Several of mine have been "done" in that way..and of course that wonderful shiney flat coat will be unchanged. Have to say here,over the years I have kept many many male entire dogs,and not one has ever had any illness related to being entire..and that has also been true of the feedback from the puppies sold,many of whom are in contact all through their lives.Seriously do think that "the dangers" of males remaining entire are vastly overdone by  vets for their own profit,and yes I`ve worked in the trade too.


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## shanksmare (12 December 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			If it is just the possibility of  the boys breeding that is worrying you,there is always "having the snip/aka vasectomy" for them.Several of mine have been "done" in that way..and of course that wonderful shiney flat coat will be unchanged. Have to say here,over the years I have kept many many male entire dogs,and not one has ever had any illness related to being entire..and that has also been true of the feedback from the puppies sold,many of whom are in contact all through their lives.Seriously do think that "the dangers" of males remaining entire are vastly overdone by  vets for their own profit,and yes I`ve worked in the trade too.
		
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Hi East Kent, Just googled the vasectomy option and it makes for interesting reading. Thanks for that!


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## Honey08 (13 December 2010)

I think its really vain (sorry) to only consider not neutering because of their coat.  He only has to escap once when there is a local bitch in season, and there's another litter of unwanted pups in the world. I'm amazed so many people are saying don't do it!  But I'm someone who couldn't care less what type of dog I have - both ours came from rescues...


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## PucciNPoni (13 December 2010)

Honey, I think if you re-read the responses on this thread, you will find that almost everyone who responded has said that neutering is a better option than just for vanity's sake leaving the dog entire.  And even the one person who said "don't do it" also came up with another option (eg canine vasectomy).

FWIW, I have no experience of canine vasectomy but IMO if it changes the dog's hormones at all, then coat change is probably still going to happen?


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## PucciNPoni (13 December 2010)

And having done a quick google on canine vasectomy...it appears that it doesn't alter the hormones.  Very interesting indeed


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## Honey08 (13 December 2010)

PucciNPoni said:



			Honey, I think if you re-read the responses on this thread, you will find that almost everyone who responded has said that neutering is a better option than just for vanity's sake leaving the dog entire.  And even the one person who said "don't do it" also came up with another option (eg canine vasectomy).

FWIW, I have no experience of canine vasectomy but IMO if it changes the dog's hormones at all, then coat change is probably still going to happen?
		
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Sorry if my reply seemed rude.  I have re-read the replies, and what I wrote still stands - most didn't mention vasectomy until someone did well into the thread.  I didn't mean to be rude, but was genuinely shocked/surprised as  I thought all the replies would have been "neuter if you're not breeding" replies.  I guess thats the beauty of a forum - you see all sides of the arguement...


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## EAST KENT (13 December 2010)

PucciNPoni said:



			And having done a quick google on canine vasectomy...it appears that it doesn't alter the hormones.  Very interesting indeed 

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It is an interesting option for responsible owners,much cheaper than castration too.Seems the way to go to me!


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