# Owned for three weeks and I'm losing it



## LadyDarcy (26 December 2020)

I recently purchased a lovely 8 yr old tb x mare.
I have been riding around 7 or 8 years and have done my BHS stage 1.
With all the lockdown madness I went and got my own horse. I had a 5 stage vetting and blood test done.
I knew owning a horse wasn't going to be easy, but I have had an almost vertical learning curve. 
She started weaving when she arrived, previous owners claim she'd never done it before.  It was a huge change for her as she came from a private home, with own menage and groom, to a larger yard, mare herd for turn out and just me to look after her.
She went lame a few days in, probably couldn't hack the deep mud in the field. 
Then developed mud fever and I can't get near her back legs as she's so sore.
She won't eat her feed with bute in anymore, and when I tried syringing her abx and bute instead, she reared up. And on top of that she lost a shoe today.

I don't want to send her back, they probably wouldn't take her anyway, I won't sell her on as that's not fair on her.
However I do find myself losing confidence and feeling a bit useless.
I am clicker training her, which has helped a lot, but there's only so much we can achieve in a short space of time. 
I'm losing it a bit and just need someone to tell me it will be ok!! That all this anxiety will be worth it one day!!


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## emilylou (26 December 2020)

Sounds like you need some hands on help and to move her to a quieter yard. Have you got her in a routine and is she in work?
Maybe worth speaking to old owners and asking for advice, even if they won’t have her back they may be able to advise you on how to manage her.


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## SusieT (26 December 2020)

It will be ok, if you are struggling is there a local riding club you can contact to find some good instructors:? Any local instructors you could ask for help? Your previous riding instructor? The other thing to do is to get your vet out to administer the drugs and see how they do it.


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## TheMule (26 December 2020)

Is there anyone experienced on the yard who can help you?
For the immediate problems- 
Dont worry about the shoe- she's a horse, it's muddy, it will happen!
Some horses eat Danilon better than bute but it's probably the antibiotics she's objecting to. If you have experienced help they may be able to inject it into her for you if you can get from vet. Much easier and more reliable way of delivering it than syringing it in. Some horses don’t like wormers etc and will rear, it's fairly common. You could try something like this- https://wormers-direct.co.uk/medibit-horse-worming-bit/
The mud fever might need a dose of sedative to clean up properly. Again, that's not uncommon, especially in a sensitive mare. But someone experienced may be able to hold a front leg or twitch her to get the same result.
It sound like you have bought a slightly sensitive blood horse who you will need a bit of help with sometimes.


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## ycbm (26 December 2020)

I would for the rest of the winter,  if you can,  pop her on full livery as you develop your relationship with her.  It will take the pressure off you both.  Don't view it as a failure, just a temporary phase. 
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## Griffin (26 December 2020)

It's very early days and it takes a while to get into a routine that works for both of you. When I first got my own horse, I had them on full livery to start with but I used to go up, do them myself but with a groom helping me. To be honest, I had done BHS Stage One but it did nothing to really prepare me for ownership! I would try to get someone experienced to help you, even if you have to pay for them, for a while until you feel more confident.

You could try hiding the taste of the medication with apple juice or something strong like mint. However, if she won't take it, you may need to enlist help. Horses are really good at sensing if you're not quite with it, so someone more experienced (and less emotionally invested) may work.

I would recommend trying to spend some with her without pressure to do anything. Just stand outside her stable and chill out with her, take her to hand graze some grass or even just groom her. It takes time to build trust but it does get better. In a year, you will look back and see how far you have come.


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## LadyDarcy (26 December 2020)

My instructor and friend ho was with me when I got her has been amazing, sadly our yard has locked down and we can't have outside people on the yard nymore otherwise she'd be with me.
She has slowly started to settle in.


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## Pearlsasinger (26 December 2020)

When sister and I bought our first mare (having had a very easy gelding before), we did say, only half joking, that if we could have shown her to anybody we would have sold her on.  After 6 weeks of crazy behaviour, including escaping from different fields and needing the vet for a thick green nasal discharge, we moved her to a different, quieter yard and she settled so much better.
Sadly you have got her at a time when any horse prone to mud fever is almost bound to get it.  Unfortunately she doesn't know you well enough to trust you to medicate her, especially as she has obviously realised that she can make you anxious about her behaviour (and I'm not surprised that you are).  I would ask your vet to sedate her to get a really good start on dealing with her legs, ask the YO to help you to deal with her, after that, which might include sedation to until you get on top of the mud fever.  I can promise you that she will be much better to deal with when her legs have stopped hurting.  Longer term, I would look for a quieter yard for her.

We bought ours when she was 9 and kept her until she was 33.


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## LadyDarcy (26 December 2020)

Griffin said:



			It's very early days and it takes a while to get into a routine that works for both of you. When I first got my own horse, I had them on full livery to start with but I used to go up, do them myself but with a groom helping me. To be honest, I had done BHS Stage One but it did nothing to really prepare me for ownership! I would try to get someone experienced to help you, even if you have to pay for them, for a while until you feel more confident.

You could try hiding the taste of the medication with apple juice or something strong like mint. However, if she won't take it, you may need to enlist help. Horses are really good at sensing if you're not quite with it, so someone more experienced (and less emotionally invested) may work.

I would recommend trying to spend some with her without pressure to do anything. Just stand outside her stable and chill out with her, take her to hand graze some grass or even just groom her. It takes time to build trust but it does get better. In a year, you will look back and see how far you have come.
		
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Thank you, this is exactly what I needed to hear.
I have contacted the lady who provides services at the yard to see if she can help me.


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## Midlifecrisis (26 December 2020)

Three weeks is no time at all. I echo advice above..seek good support. It takes  time to build trust and winter horse ownership can be very challenging. Hang on in there.


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## Squeak (27 December 2020)

LadyDarcy said:



			My instructor and friend ho was with me when I got her has been amazing, sadly our yard has locked down and we can't have outside people on the yard nymore otherwise she'd be with me.
She has slowly started to settle in.
		
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Is your friend/ instructor at a yard that you could move to?  Echo what the others have said about it being early days and it's probably a huge shock to your mare going from a quiet yard to a big one.  

We've all been there with mud fever and medication, it takes time to get to know a horse however many you've had.


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## Smitty (27 December 2020)

I recall shoving the bute in a jam sandwich and that was happily eaten (no butter of course😉).  I think I used to get a lot of meds down them this way.


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## meleeka (27 December 2020)

You’ve got the horse at probably the worst time of year.  Summer would have been so much easier!  Three weeks is no time at all and I’ve felt out of my depth plenty with each new horse I’ve got so I don’t think it’s just a new owner thing.  
My first pony was a awful in the beginning. It was many years ago,   I was a teenager and it even got to the point that I was going to return her because I was so out of my depth.  Thankfully my mum decided that she could just be a pet if that’s all I could manage.  That pony taught me so much and I’m so glad that I persevered when it was so difficult.  I owned her for the rest of her life and of course we had a bond like no other. 

Be kind to yourself.  You’ve had a bit of bad luck but it is winter, and mud fever and lost shoes are normal. It’s not your fault.  I’d spend time with your horse getting to know her without pressure and try and get help with the tricky things.  If you were to just give up, what would you learn then?  Owning horses is a constant learning curve. We are all still learning, whether you’ve owned for years or not.


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## Ownedby4horses (27 December 2020)

Don’t give up! My mare took a long time to settle when I first got her and tested me more than any horse I’ve ever had (I’ve had horses for well over 40yrs!), the dealer even offered to take her back at one point as she was struggling to settle (she had been in a very busy environment and our private yard was extremely quiet with just three tiny tots and an old boy, so not much going on).

She had the most awful mud fever and she is the sweetest of horses but lashed out at me and the vet as she was in so much pain. Don’t underestimate how painful it is. Its flared Up again after she was on livery but she trusts me so much now I can do everything to treat and she just gently takes her leg away when it’s been too sore.

I stuck with her as I was determined not to give up and she is now my horse of a lifetime, absolutely adore her and she is a dream to do now.


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## Upthecreek (27 December 2020)

You’ve had a run of bad luck, which is not uncommon with horses! I don’t know anyone owning a horse for the first time that has not felt completely overwhelmed and out of their depth at some point, so I hope that gives you a little bit of reassurance. Our fight or flight response to stress makes us want to get away from the problem, so I understand how you are having thoughts about sending her back or selling her.

In fairness to the mare you are keeping her in quite a different environment to her previous home. She may settle, she may not. Time will tell. 

There’s a lot going on, but my first priority would be to get on top of the mud fever because it can be extremely painful and sensitive horses can react in an extreme way to you trying to treat it. She needs sedation so that you can properly treat it. Being stabled more than she is used to is probably causing her stress as well.

Once you’ve resolved the medical issues I think you’ll need to think very carefully about whether or not she is going to settle and be happy at the current yard. If not you’ll then need to think about moving her or selling her to a home with a set up more like where she came from.

Three weeks is nothing though, some horses can take many months to truly settle in a new home. She is still the same mare you liked enough to buy, so get some support at the yard and keep going.


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## SEL (27 December 2020)

I've had 40 years of horses and 2020 has made me think about jacking it all in - rather too much time at the vets.

In terms of getting drugs down then feed them something yummy. When the small pony needed wet feed I was pouring boiling water over a mix of pony nuts and mint flavoured treats to get it sloppy then mixing bute and antibiotics in when it cooled. All full of sugar but it worked!

I'm currently spraying a mud fever back leg from a safe distance with the NAF mud away. If you think you are going to get kicked then ask vet out because they will sedate.

Hang on until spring and life will feel a LOT better!


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## meggymoo (27 December 2020)

Chin up! Its early days yet and with winter thrown into the mix, probably the worse timing possible. When we bought our first horse, it showed just how little we knew. I dont think our mare had read the text books. And we didn't have the stress of moving her when we bought her as she was on the yard we rode at anyway. When we did come to move, 9 years later, it took her a couple of weeks to settle properly, but now she is happy as Larry. She's chilled. We're chilled. By March with the lighter days and the mud (hopefully) drying up, you will look back and smile, I promise you!


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## LadyDarcy (27 December 2020)

Thanks everyone,  I appreciate the time you've all taken to write me messages of support. It means so much.

Today she let me get most of the scabs off her back legs and the last of the dry mud from her udders and belly.
I even managed to put her cream on.
I think its just been the cold water shes been opposed to when trying to clean her, so I'm hoping to invest in a gas water heater for her.
I've even ordered a cordless hairdryer to help dry her.
I had said to myself, if I can get through these months, things will be fine, now I'm being tested by those words!
It definitely gets overwhelming at times, but I am trying to take each day as it comes.
She's weaving a lot less now which is a huge relief.
I know its early days, and I am so hopeful of the days we will have to come.
Thank you


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## Amymay (27 December 2020)

You can put baby oil (patch test first) on her belly, or liberal amounts of show sheen to help with mud. And a cactus cloth is far better (and more comfortable) than a brush.  Try to avoid using too much water at this time of year as it can lead to more problems than mud itself.  If her legs are sore from the MF try to leave alone as much as possible (although appreciate you have cream to put on).


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## Ownedby4horses (27 December 2020)

Don’t wash her legs in water for mud fever. Let them dry and brush off any mud and treat.

I’ve had far more success with baby oil and also zinc oxide cream and this has softened the scabs for me to get off. Washing her legs made the skin crack and made her even more sore.


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## tiahatti (27 December 2020)

Sounds like today went a lot better. I used to take flasks of hot  water to the yard to mix with the cold from the tap. I must have looked ridiculous, as if I was going on a picnic but Hatti appreciated warm water. Winter is very hard.


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## meggymoo (27 December 2020)

LadyDarcy said:



			Thanks everyone,  I appreciate the time you've all taken to write me messages of support. It means so much.

Today she let me get most of the scabs off her back legs and the last of the dry mud from her udders and belly.
I even managed to put her cream on.
I think its just been the cold water shes been opposed to when trying to clean her, so I'm hoping to invest in a gas water heater for her.
		
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Use cold water on my udders and belly in the midst of winter and I too would very probably complain!
Apart from the fact that as some have pointed out, too mush washing with mud fever isn't great, if you do need to rinse, you may find a "mud daddy" useful.  I have on occasion filled mine with hot water and taken with me to remove some of the mud off the dogs before getting them back in the car. May be a stop gap before hot water heater is fitted.


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## brighteyes (27 December 2020)

LadyDarcy said:



			Thanks everyone,  I appreciate the time you've all taken to write me messages of support. It means so much.

Today she let me get most of the scabs off her back legs and the last of the dry mud from her udders and belly.
I even managed to put her cream on.
I think its just been the cold water shes been opposed to when trying to clean her, so I'm hoping to invest in a gas water heater for her.
I've even ordered a cordless hairdryer to help dry her.
I had said to myself, if I can get through these months, things will be fine, now I'm being tested by those words!
It definitely gets overwhelming at times, but I am trying to take each day as it comes.
She's weaving a lot less now which is a huge relief.
I know its early days, and I am so hopeful of the days we will have to come.
Thank you
		
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Remember she has been completely upheaved too and a lot of this is self-protection on her part. Loads and loads of sound and positive suggestions I feel unable to add to, except that it takes at least one of each season (Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter) to get to know a horse and feel some two-way trust and understanding. I have found this to be true over many, many years of ownership and the vast majority of it at my own private facilities where this should happen a deal faster. Try and see things from her point of view whenever there is a problem to surmount and be kind to her and yourself. You are the one with the brains to figure it out and she is the one just being a horse, trying to make sense of it all. 

Good luck and keep us updated.


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## brighteyes (27 December 2020)

LadyDarcy said:



			...
I've even ordered a cordless hairdryer to help dry her..
		
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Do report back once you have scraped her off the stable ceiling


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## PurBee (27 December 2020)

Tinseleyze said:



			Do report back once you have scraped her off the stable ceiling 

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 🤣😂🤣 hilarious yet very accurate!

The snakey neck and snorts i got when i got my small hand dremel out and turned it on to see how silly things would get....my god....i didnt get near. 
I was hoping to make rasping feet a thing of my past ...had read of many farriers using angle grinders 😱 brave fools!....so middle-way idea was my dremel with small perfect attachment that took weeks to research and order. I sculpt stone with it so am well versed with using it to shave tiny amount off....perfect solution!
The vibration on her foot, when i eventually got close, was far too weird for her to bear....altho’ bless her, she tried to behave but it was just too weird and she couldnt stop reacting! 
Im back on the hand tools for now...😏...im amazed how some things take forever for them to get used to, while other stuff, like fire, they’ll be curious and walk straight up to it!
I blow raspberries on her forehead, yet vibration on hoof, no-way-ho-zay! 😂

Hang in there OP, my mare was a pain initially...old owner couldnt believe her behaviour...some dont adjust fast to change. Spend time just being with her, she’ll ‘assess’ you and come to realise soon enough you’re lovely and mean well.


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## Upthecreek (27 December 2020)

PurBee said:



			🤣😂🤣 hilarious yet very accurate!

The snakey neck and snorts i got when i got my small hand dremel out and turned it on to see how silly things would get....my god....i didnt get near.
I was hoping to make rasping feet a thing of my past ...had read of many farriers using angle grinders 😱 brave fools!....so middle-way idea was my dremel with small perfect attachment that took weeks to research and order. I sculpt stone with it so am well versed with using it to shave tiny amount off....perfect solution!
The vibration on her foot, when i eventually got close, was far too weird for her to bear....altho’ bless her, she tried to behave but it was just too weird and she couldnt stop reacting!
Im back on the hand tools for now...😏...im amazed how some things take forever for them to get used to, while other stuff, like fire, they’ll be curious and walk straight up to it!
I blow raspberries on her forehead, yet vibration on hoof, no-way-ho-zay! 😂

Hang in there OP, my mare was a pain initially...old owner couldnt believe her behaviour...some dont adjust fast to change. Spend time just being with her, she’ll ‘assess’ you and come to realise soon enough you’re lovely and mean well.
		
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I so agree with this. It’s not about the mythical ‘bond’ that some talk about, it’s about trust and understanding. We need to think about everything we are trying to do from the point of view of the horse. I can do anything with my two now because they trust me, but if someone else tried to give one of them a wormer or tried to clip the other one’s legs they’d have a meltdown. Both are very easy to handle for all day to day stuff, but for those particular things it has to be someone they trust to enable them to cope. OP should feel proud that the mare is already allowing her to touch her sore legs. The cordless hairdryer may be a step too far though!


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## LadyDarcy (27 December 2020)

Lol, don't worry, she's gonna love it haha


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## Meowy Catkin (27 December 2020)

Having had lots of issues with horses with sore legs for various reasons, I think that it is pertinent for me to mention that removing the scabs for mud fever is very out of date advice. My vet was very clear that the modern advice is to leave the scabs alone and to let them fall off in their own time.


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## LadyDarcy (27 December 2020)

Tinseleyze said:



			Remember she has been completely upheaved too and a lot of this is self-protection on her part. Loads and loads of sound and positive suggestions I feel unable to add to, except that it takes at least one of each season (Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter) to get to know a horse and feel some two-way trust and understanding. I have found this to be true over many, many years of ownership and the vast majority of it at my own private facilities where this should happen a deal faster. Try and see things from her point of view whenever there is a problem to surmount and be kind to her and yourself. You are the one with the brains to figure it out and she is the one just being a horse, trying to make sense of it all.

Good luck and keep us updated.
		
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Thank you.
Yes I say that to myself constantly,  if I'm going through this, Lord knows it's worse for her. 
I don't blame her, or feel negative towards her in the least, this is a huge adjustment for us both. 
I am pleased her weaving has cut down a lot now. Not seen her do it for a few days now which is great, hoping it stays that way.


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## LadyDarcy (27 December 2020)

Meowy Catkin said:



			Having had lots of issues with horses with sore legs for various reasons, I think that it is pertinent for me to mention that removing the scabs for mud fever is very out of date advice. My vet was very clear that the modern advice is to leave the scabs alone and to let them fall off in their own time.
		
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Interesting!
The vet that came said to take them off, although I have to say, my instinct is to leave them as well. Is there something I can use to soften them, or help them heal. I do have the cream the vet gave me.


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## windand rain (27 December 2020)

It was usual to wash off muddy legs but now it is advised that you use thermatex type wraps to dry the legs properly brush gently with spiky rubber gloves and slather on emolient type cream (patch tesed first of course) I used old fashioned zinc and castor oil cream it worked great also softens the scabs which can be gently removed with a nit comb if needed. If the legs are dry just add more cream as the dollops of cream fall off the scabs fall with them


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## Meowy Catkin (27 December 2020)

LadyDarcy said:



			Interesting!
The vet that came said to take them off, although I have to say, my instinct is to leave them as well. Is there something I can use to soften them, or help them heal. I do have the cream the vet gave me.
		
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Flamazine cream from the vet, applied to dry legs. Also an oral antibiotic in the feed. This helped a bad case of mud fever. Once cleared, I used a barrier cream to help prevent further issues. I did also try the turnout chaps but my mare didn't get on with them.


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## milliepops (27 December 2020)

LadyDarcy said:



			Interesting!
The vet that came said to take them off, although I have to say, my instinct is to leave them as well. Is there something I can use to soften them, or help them heal. I do have the cream the vet gave me.
		
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lincoln muddy buddy kure cream is AMAZING for softening the scabs and helping the ones that are ready to come off. it seems quite soothing (though for a really sensitive one I'd warm it up a bit indoors rather than use it at outdoor temperature).  it's not cheap but I was absolutely amazed at the difference overnight and my horse didn't mind it at all. he arrived with pretty severe mud fever which needed attention.

i put it on overnight and then flamazine the next day, which could then get to the skin in the areas where the cruddy old stuff had dropped off.


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## Squeak (27 December 2020)

milliepops said:



			lincoln muddy buddy kure cream is AMAZING for softening the scabs and helping the ones that are ready to come off. it seems quite soothing (though for a really sensitive one I'd warm it up a bit indoors rather than use it at outdoor temperature).  it's not cheap but I was absolutely amazed at the difference overnight and my horse didn't mind it at all. he arrived with pretty severe mud fever which needed attention.

i put it on overnight and then flamazine the next day, which could then get to the skin in the areas where the cruddy old stuff had dropped off.
		
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I've used this cream as well and would highly recommend.  I used it to keep small breakouts at bay and it did such a good job that I haven't had a chance to test it on a full blown mud fever case yet.


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## tallyho! (27 December 2020)

Hang in there gal! Winter tests the most stoic of us all. I swear that I'm giving up horses EVERY winter, yet here I still am like some mug with a neurotic affliction.

If the mud fever doesn't clear then you may be dealing with a touch of 'fungal' dermatitis which can't be touched by antibacs. I found out that mudfever can be cause by either bacteria or fungus or even both which is horrible! What you might need is something like NIZORAL. You could even wipe on some CANESTAN Cream like what you'd sort thrush with (human/horse whatever) - you just need an antifungal. Keep it as dry as poss.

You might want to increase skin health too ready for next year - a high quality supplement should do the trick. It's not immediate but might save the skin next year. Something with lots of Vit E will help and decent amounts of copper and zinc.

Good luck everyone - hang in there!


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## LadyDarcy (27 December 2020)

Meowy Catkin said:



			Flamazine cream from the vet, applied to dry legs. Also an oral antibiotic in the feed. This helped a bad case of mud fever. Once cleared, I used a barrier cream to help prevent further issues. I did also try the turnout chaps but my mare didn't get on with them.
		
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I have antibiotics, but can't get them in her


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## Amymay (27 December 2020)

LadyDarcy said:



			I have antibiotics, but can't get them in her 

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Have you tried a jam sandwich?


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## LadyDarcy (27 December 2020)

Squeak said:



			I've used this cream as well and would highly recommend.  I used it to keep small breakouts at bay and it did such a good job that I haven't had a chance to test it on a full blown mud fever case yet.
		
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Will order some!

I've got nettex at the moment, but not had a chance to try it yet


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## meggymoo (27 December 2020)

Just think LadyDarcy, three or four months struggling through rain and mud, sleet and snow, more mud, then just for a change, more mud, you will be getting used to her. She will be starting to trust you, weather will be getting better, things will look a lot brighter. Then.......... she will come into season! .  Sorry. I'll get my coat........


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## LadyDarcy (27 December 2020)

Amymay In A Manger said:



			Have you tried a jam sandwich?
		
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I did try today, she wasn't having it


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## LadyDarcy (27 December 2020)

meggymoo said:



			Just think LadyDarcy, three or four months struggling through rain and mud, sleet and snow, more mud, then just for a change, more mud, you will be getting used to her. She will be starting to trust you, weather will be getting better, things will look a lot brighter. Then.......... she will come into season! .  Sorry. I'll get my coat........
		
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Lol
Well, i also told myself this, minus the coming into season bit lol. 
I said we can get to know eachother over the wet and cold season, and by the time the nicer weather comes around she will have settled and we will have created a bit of trust between us God willing!


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## Illtellyoulater (27 December 2020)

LadyDarcy said:



			I did try today, she wasn't having it 

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I have to mix antibiotics with strawberry yogurt and syringe in


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## meggymoo (27 December 2020)

LadyDarcy said:



			Lol
Well, i also told myself this, minus the coming into season bit lol.
I said we can get to know eachother over the wet and cold season, and by the time the nicer weather comes around she will have settled and we will have created a bit of trust between us God willing!
		
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Sorry, I wasn't trying to be a pessimist! Its just sods law that any progress always seems to be tempered with something else to test you!  You are already making progress, you haven't been too proud to ask the question and you haven't rejected every suggestion out of hand. You are going to be just fine.


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## windand rain (28 December 2020)

I know its not conventional but could you beg, borrow or get you hands on some old fashioned sugar beet pulp to put her ABs in if it works you can buy a bag if not you wont have lost a lot. Other suggestion is liquidised carrot and poured in food but again its not guaranteed. Syringed in through a worming bit is the best way if you can get it to mix properly. Apple babyfood or liquidised apple sauce if she likes apple. Some like marmite too although mine dont. My ponies love extra strong mints so can usually disguise medicine in powdered mints


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## Orangehorse (29 December 2020)

Mud fever is really miserable for the horse, very sore.  I found Equine America ointment very good for healing, and I used just plain vaseline, non medicated cream, to put on dry skin before turnout to help prevent it.

However, this is just my experience.  I found when I changed my horse's feed she never had mud fever again.  Also current horse is out in mud, yet does not get mud fever (and when I bought him he had patches all over and it was noted on the vetting certificate).

I changed the feed to a feed balancer, so just a small amount.  The first one I can't remember the name, later it was Top Spec.  After a while I realised that she hadn't had mud fever.  Ditto with the present horse I have had for 20 years.  He has mostly been on a vitamin/mineral mix for barefoot horses that I have continued with called Pro Balance, which I buy from ebay from a firm called Progressive Earth.  

I'm not saying that it would work for your horse, but it worked for 2 of mine.

Some horses do weave when they move homes, a sign of being anxious, and they do settle down.  Have you tried some Tellington-Touch body work?  It isn't massage, but all touches.  Some horses don't like it, others love it and it helps them relax.


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