# Equine flu outbreak - anyone else thinking about curtailing plans?



## FestiveFuzz (7 February 2019)

In light of this - https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/new...5-udmHAG8hitA9IH-BssndhnJhh9vFVzLxPOROyws0rt4

Is anyone else thinking of playing it safe until we know more or am I being over-cautious?


----------



## milliepops (7 February 2019)

I think venues will be cautious, at the moment it's clear that there is no expectation from any of the affiliated bodies that shows will be cancelled... yet.  As such, i am planning to continue as normal, I don't let mine get close to other horses routinely though obv with a disease like flu they don't need to be in actual contact.  I am kind of expecting things to start getting cancelled in the future though.


----------



## FestiveFuzz (7 February 2019)

milliepops said:



			I think venues will be cautious, at the moment it's clear that there is no expectation from any of the affiliated bodies that shows will be cancelled... yet.  As such, i am planning to continue as normal, I don't let mine get close to other horses routinely though obv with a disease like flu they don't need to be in actual contact.  I am kind of expecting things to start getting cancelled in the future though.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect you're right. M never gets close to others at events but like you say, it is more of a worry with airborne bugs. We've got our first affiliated comp in a couple of weeks so will just see how the land lies closer to the time I guess.


----------



## conniegirl (7 February 2019)

tbh our yard owner has asked us to consider not going to any events/taking the horses off the yard unless it is absolutely essential. 
She has not yet put the yard in lock down but has suggested that it may come to that depending on further updates from vets.


----------



## Nicnac (7 February 2019)

Keeping a watching brief.  Due to compete Saturday but vaccs are over 6 months old and not vaccinating this week if competing Saturday...  No cases afaik in my county.  

I don't how anyone can say their horse doesn't get close to others at an event?  Warm ups are pretty close proximity for an airborne virus.


----------



## conniegirl (7 February 2019)

Nicnac said:



			Keeping a watching brief.  Due to compete Saturday but vaccs are over 6 months old and not vaccinating this week if competing Saturday...  No cases afaik in my county. 

I don't how anyone can say their horse doesn't get close to others at an event?  Warm ups are pretty close proximity for an airborne virus.
		
Click to expand...

flu vaccines are effective for at least a year.


----------



## FestiveFuzz (7 February 2019)

Just seen this on our BD region page...

IMPORTANT NOTICE!!!! PLEASE READ!!! British Dressage have prepared the following statement for you. Please note all Regional competitions, clinics and training will carry on as planned.

BEF advises horse owners after equine flu outbreak
Following British Horseracingâ€™s decision to cancel all racing today (7 February) the British Equestrian Federation (BEF) is closely monitoring the situation. Veterinary experts have advised that it is not necessary to cancel other equine events at this time, but we will issue a further update once the full extent of the outbreak is known.
In the meantime, we recommend that all owners follow the guidelines below as a precaution and ensure that all vaccinations are fully up to date. If your horse is currently vaccinated, we recommend a booster if it has been longer than six months since your horseâ€™s last vaccination. However please note there must be seven clear days before competing if you do decide to have a booster.

Actions for owners to take:
â€¢ Itâ€™s crucial for all horse and pony owners to be vigilant and follow recommended guidelines on how to detect and prevent the spread of this infectious disease.
â€¢ Look out for signs of disease which can include high temperature, cough, snotty nose, enlarged glands (under the lower jaw), swollen or sore eyes, depression, loss of appetite and swelling in the lower legs.
â€¢ If you see any of these signs, isolate the horse and call your vet immediately.
â€¢ Itâ€™s essential that any horses showing signs of possible equine flu, or horses that might have been in contact with possibly infected horses, do not travel to competitions or other events where there will be groups of horses. If your horse has been in contact with an infected horse we suggest that you should take veterinary advice.
â€¢ We advise that horses are vaccinated with a booster for equine flu with a vaccine that contains the Florida Clade 1. There are two such vaccines currently licensed in the UK, ProteqFlu and Equilis Prequenza. If your horse is currently vaccinated, but it has been longer than six months since the last vaccination, we recommend that you discuss a booster with your veterinary surgeon.
The BEF also has guidance on its website regarding equine infectious diseases and is urging owners to take the necessary precautions to avoid their horses becoming infected.
Further information
Follow @equiflunet
www.equiflunet.org.uk
www.bef.co.uk/Detail.aspx?page=Horse-Health-Biosecurity
ENDS
Media enquiries: please contact BEF Head of Communications Matt Williams 07595 763908 / matt.williams@bef.co.uk


----------



## FestiveFuzz (7 February 2019)

conniegirl said:



			flu vaccines are effective for at least a year.
		
Click to expand...

There have apparently been cases of vaccinated horses contracting it and as per the above the advice is to booster jab those that had their vaccinations more than 6 months ago.


----------



## Ambers Echo (7 February 2019)

Nope but I expect my activities will be curtailed for me soon....


----------



## Laafet (7 February 2019)

The yard in the same village as my horse has it, mixture of vaccinated and unvaccinated TBs. We are not overly concerned as they are on lock down. Mine is due his jab next week so that is booked in anyway. The vaccination thing is a bit of a joke imo, my horse has never had his passport checked and he's done BD and BS for 8 years, although he has always been legit. I had already planned at the beginning of the year to not be out until the end of March so am glad that's the plan now.


----------



## Rowreach (7 February 2019)

conniegirl said:



			flu vaccines are effective for at least a year.
		
Click to expand...

The trouble is that flu vaccines don't protect against every strain of the virus.  I eventually lost a fantastic horse because he caught something (either hunting or at a clinic) which was suppressed due to his vaccinations so I didn't realise he was ill, but then caused other issues which were more obvious.  I'd been managing his arthritis for years (treatments, medication, exercise programme) but enforced time off made him lame and he never came right.

I'd be avoiding taking mine anywhere if I lived over there.


----------



## Nicnac (7 February 2019)

conniegirl said:



			flu vaccines are effective for at least a year.
		
Click to expand...

So why have vaccinated horses contracted the virus?

The advice from the official channels recommend a booster if vaccinated over six months ago and to ensure it's either ProteqFlu or Equilis Prequenza which contain Florida Clade 1 - the current strain of the virus.


----------



## ester (7 February 2019)

Because itâ€™s changed, Iâ€™m surprised that in general people seem to accept this for human flu much more than they seem to be for the equine version. (Not you nicnac)

Definitely check what brand your horses last vaccine was and I hope the vets are well stocked up :/

I wouldnâ€™t go out from here, given proximity I might have done from somerset


----------



## Tiddlypom (7 February 2019)

ester said:



			Definitely check what brand your horses last vaccine was and I hope the vets are well stocked up
		
Click to expand...

ester, do you know how to search for the flu strains covered by different brands/batches of vaccine?

One ned was vaccinated on 11/1/19 with Prequenza batch A122A01.
The other two were vaccinated on the same day with Prequenza Te batch A240A01.

ETA I'm imagining that my vets are being inundated with phone calls, one of the cases is in Cheshire.


----------



## VRIN (7 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			ester, do you know how to search for the flu strains covered by different brands/batches of vaccine?

One ned was vaccinated on 11/1/19 with Prequenza batch A122A01.
The other two were vaccinated on the same day with Prequenza Te batch A240A01.

ETA I'm imagining that my vets are being inundated with phone calls, one of the cases is in Cheshire.
		
Click to expand...

How do you find out where the cases are and where about in Cheshire?


----------



## Tiddlypom (7 February 2019)

I don't know where in Cheshire. ETA It's at Donald McCain's yard at Cholmondeley, which is pretty darn close to me, eek. Three horses positive.

https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/new...trainer-donald-mccain-confirms-cases-15796151

https://www.aht.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Equiflunet-outbreaks-2019-v2.pdf


----------



## oldie48 (7 February 2019)

Rose was due on 12/03 but I have her booked in for next Monday. I shall keep on competing for the time being, we seem to be flu free here TM but we have racing yards in the area that may have had horses at Ludlow which are possibly on lock down now/


----------



## Red-1 (7 February 2019)

I have changed my previous answer as I called my vets and they seem to be taking this a lot more seriously than usual and are moving our vaccination appointment up as she was not vaccinated with one of the ones that covers this strain.

They are also recommending 2 shots 4-6 weeks apart with the correct one, even though she is still in date with one for different strains.


----------



## ester (7 February 2019)

Prequenza is one of the two that should be covering the FC1 strain.
That and proteq flu. 

I wasnâ€™t aware until today that they donâ€™t all include it.


----------



## ycbm (7 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			I don't know where in Cheshire. ETA It's at Donald McCain's yard at Cholmondeley, which is pretty darn close to me, eek. Three horses positive.

https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/new...trainer-donald-mccain-confirms-cases-15796151

https://www.aht.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Equiflunet-outbreaks-2019-v2.pdf

View attachment 29471

Click to expand...



New cases in Cheshire on 6/2 since that was published.  In vaccinated horses.


I'm going nowhere until it's clear, I don't need to take the risk, so I won't.


----------



## Bernster (7 February 2019)

Yes probably. I need to check his passport as I thought it was up to date but now Iâ€™m not sure!  Got a booster booked tmrw as it would be over 6 months but probably wonâ€™t go out Saturday. Will do next weekend though once heâ€™s jabbed.


----------



## FestiveFuzz (7 February 2019)

M is due in June but spoke to our vet this afternoon and he's now coming out to give him a booster next week and will probably stay home until then just to play it safe.


----------



## milliepops (7 February 2019)

Nicnac said:



			I don't how anyone can say their horse doesn't get close to others at an event?  Warm ups are pretty close proximity for an airborne virus.
		
Click to expand...

I have 2 horses that doesn't tolerate horses being close to them (one freaks out, one starts fights) so we generally try to keep our distance, is what I mean - some people stand around chatting, horses sniffing noses, that kind of thing.  I tend to pick venues with either huge warm ups or multiple warm ups so while we might pass others, it's less close contact than some may be used to.

Fully accept that there is still a risk, I think we have to be guided by vets and official bodies as we were with the EHV1 outbreak some years back.. We have regionals next week - if there is a feeling of increased risk in this area which is currently unaffected, I feel sure that BD and the venue will cancel the show.


----------



## OrangeAndLemon (7 February 2019)

Our yard is requesting all horses not vaccinated in the last 6 months are given a booster. They aren't locking down but are closely monitoring and discussing with the vet because we have an all year round farm ride.


----------



## scats (7 February 2019)

Millie is booked for her annual jab next Friday, but Polly isnâ€™t due til April.  Iâ€™m considering bringing hers forward.

I wonâ€™t be taking them anywhere for the forseeable.


----------



## Fiona (7 February 2019)

I've just discovered that my three, while vaccinated recently,  weren't done with either of the two recomended vaccines. 

They were done with zoetis equip ft.  

Hence I haven't gone to my RC jumping tonight, and have messaged my vet for advice...

Fiona


----------



## ester (7 February 2019)

There seems to be reports of a Leicester case confirmed today.


----------



## Meredith (7 February 2019)

A lesson I was to have on Saturday at a livery yard about 15 miles away has been cancelled. 

My other local livery yard has cancelled all lessons and competitions.

I have a lesson provisionally booked at a third venue for next Wednesday. I donâ€™t think I will go as it is close to a racecourse that had possibly infected horses racing there.


----------



## Auslander (7 February 2019)

I've got the vet coming on Monday to do everything that is more than 6 months post booster. We are a long way from the current outbreaks, but I'd rather be prepared than have a panic if it suddenly rears its ugly head in Berkshire.


----------



## Meredith (7 February 2019)

Meredith said:



			A lesson I was to have on Saturday at a livery yard about 15 miles away has been cancelled.

My other local livery yard has cancelled all lessons and competitions.

I have a lesson provisionally booked at a third venue for next Wednesday. I donâ€™t think I will go as it is close to a racecourse that had possibly infected horses racing there.
		
Click to expand...

 Edited to add... I  booked a vet visit for the annual flu / tet for my horse last week for next Thursday before the infection was found in the racehorses.


----------



## Asha (7 February 2019)

We are just down the road from the McCain yard , and our vets have recommended we donâ€™t go anywhere for now . That also includes no hacking . Iâ€™ve just seen there is a sale on (25% of everything) at Hope valley at somerford so may just do some retail therapy instead ðŸ˜€


----------



## brightmount (7 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			ester, do you know how to search for the flu strains covered by different brands/batches of vaccine?

One ned was vaccinated on 11/1/19 with Prequenza batch A122A01.
The other two were vaccinated on the same day with Prequenza Te batch A240A01.

ETA I'm imagining that my vets are being inundated with phone calls, one of the cases is in Cheshire.
		
Click to expand...

Prequenza Te is flu & tetanus given every 2 years, Prequenza is just flu given the year in between. So either of those will be fine.


----------



## Cowpony (8 February 2019)

I'm due to go out on Saturday and my horse is right at the end of her 12 month inoculation. I had already booked the vet for 25th so I will probably withdraw from this weekend's competition. Going to speak to the yard later.


----------



## Ambers Echo (8 February 2019)

Is equine flu much more serious than the human version?

Flu is around in winter every year for people. We catch it, it's grim, we get over it and life goes on. Vaccinations are not even available on the NHS unless you are a front line worker or compromised heath-wise and we don't shut the country down over it to stop the spread. Households with flu don't go into lockdown with the exposed but well kids kept off school and the parents given time off work. Am I missing something or are their 150+  FB posts and emails warning me about and the mass re-vaccinations of horses a bit of an over-reaction?


----------



## popsdosh (8 February 2019)

brightmount said:



			Prequenza Te is flu & tetanus given every 2 years, Prequenza is just flu given the year in between. So either of those will be fine.
		
Click to expand...

What gives you that idea. Vaccinated horses are going down with it and showing positive . They may not be showing much more than subtle changes but they are still infectious to other horses.  To be honest I am gobsmacked at how cavalier some are about this . If the BHA consider it important enough to shut down racing for 7 days and maybe longer there is some panic in their minds . As far as im aware UK racing has never been stopped before by an outbreak.
We will know more when the racing population has been tested and assessed which is happening quickly now but they can only handle so many samples a day. 
Even if a certain vaccine is shown to be effective there will never be enough to more than scratch the surface with more vaccinations and it will have blown itself out before there will be enough as production can not just be stepped up it takes planning.


----------



## ester (8 February 2019)

Ambers Echo said:



			Is equine flu much more serious than the human version?

Flu is around in winter every year for people. We catch it, it's grim, we get over it and life goes on. Vaccinations are not even available on the NHS unless you are a front line worker or compromised heath-wise and we don't shut the country down over it to stop the spread. Households with flu don't go into lockdown with the exposed but well kids kept off school and the parents given time off work. Am I missing something or are their 150+  FB posts and emails warning me about and the mass re-vaccinations of horses a bit of an over-reaction?
		
Click to expand...

Money, itâ€™s not the level of disease in the individuals thatâ€™s a problem itâ€™s the spread.

Popsdosh we can actually make emegency usually autogenous vaccines quickly just need some virus and some eggs. Thatâ€™s different increasing production of a current commercial vaccine which is potentially not working great though.


----------



## oldie48 (8 February 2019)

No I don't think it is an over reaction.  I know a huge number of people who's livelihoods depend on horses being able to get out and about competing and a mass outbreak could be enough to bankrupt them. If a horse gets flu, it's probably going to be off work for a month with the need to bring it back into work slowly and carefully, so for racehorses, eventer etc that's probably most of the season gone. Although most horses get over flu OK, it's much more infectious than strangles so once it gets into the general horse population it will spread very rapidly, so I am very pleased this outbreak is being taken seriously.


----------



## popsdosh (8 February 2019)

Ambers Echo said:



			Is equine flu much more serious than the human version?

Flu is around in winter every year for people. We catch it, it's grim, we get over it and life goes on. Vaccinations are not even available on the NHS unless you are a front line worker or compromised heath-wise and we don't shut the country down over it to stop the spread. Households with flu don't go into lockdown with the exposed but well kids kept off school and the parents given time off work. Am I missing something or are their 150+  FB posts and emails warning me about and the mass re-vaccinations of horses a bit of an over-reaction?
		
Click to expand...

 There wont be a mass re vaccination of horses as logistically there wont physically be enough vaccine to do it and it will take time to plan stock of an effective vaccine, no point using those already available. 
Generally you are correct about the effects . Before vaccines yards used to shut down for 2-3 weeks if they had a case and in most cases the effects are gone . The real dangers come mostly in the high performance end where the stresses of racing for example can make the symptoms worse and in extreme cases finish careers . Humans to some degree are slightly different in that they can tell themselves they are not feeling 100%. It may eventually come about if the Virus mutates quicker that vaccination is futile and could be argued actually making it worse.


----------



## ester (8 February 2019)

The concern right now until we get the sequencing is that it may already have mutated or become a recombinant.


----------



## popsdosh (8 February 2019)

ester said:



			Money, itâ€™s not the level of disease in the individuals thatâ€™s a problem itâ€™s the spread.

Popsdosh we can actually make emergency usually autogenous vaccines quickly just need some virus and some eggs. Thatâ€™s different increasing production of a current commercial vaccine which is potentially not working great though.
		
Click to expand...

Would there be enough capacity to produce this vaccine quickly enough to be effective ,thats my thinking, I realise that emergency vaccines can be produced but im not sure you could cover the horse population with the facilities at our disposal.


----------



## Pinkvboots (8 February 2019)

Both my horses had the prequenza vaccine one a few weeks back, the other was done in September but they are kept at home and they won't be traveling anywhere, but there is a yard next door to me and I use there school, so should I get the one done in September done again?


----------



## Hallo2012 (8 February 2019)

watching and waiting, i'm cheshire and only 15 miles from the outbreak.

mine are up to date in terms of annual vacs but one is outside 6 months however im not going to panic to book a booster yet.

the only one planned to go and compete in the next 2 weeks is a stallion anyway so clearly wont be letting him stand around talking to other horses!


----------



## Goldenstar (8 February 2019)

Ambers Echo said:



			Is equine flu much more serious than the human version?

Flu is around in winter every year for people. We catch it, it's grim, we get over it and life goes on. Vaccinations are not even available on the NHS unless you are a front line worker or compromised heath-wise and we don't shut the country down over it to stop the spread. Households with flu don't go into lockdown with the exposed but well kids kept off school and the parents given time off work. Am I missing something or are their 150+  FB posts and emails warning me about and the mass re-vaccinations of horses a bit of an over-reaction?
		
Click to expand...

Non of us have seen a full on equine flu epidemic out of control .
Thatâ€™s how we can be relaxed .
No itâ€™s not a overreaction to do a another vaccination every six months is mandatory for horses doing fei because it gives better cover .
Horses with flu recover slower than we do their lungs are huge and they are particularly senestive to respiratory stress .
Foals often die and as we fast approach the season where most foals are born thatâ€™s got to be big worry .
Thereâ€™s a huge poll of unvaccinated horses in the uk all you can to care for your own as well as you can .
The next ten days should let us know how big an issue it is .


----------



## Tiddlypom (8 February 2019)

brightmount said:



			Prequenza Te is flu & tetanus given every 2 years, Prequenza is just flu given the year in between. So either of those will be fine.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you. I know that Te is the version with tetanus vaccine added, I was wondering if a lay person could look up the batch numbers and see which flu strains are incorporated.

The Cheshire Hunt have cancelled tomorrow's meet. Luckily last Saturday's meet was frozen off, as it was due to have been held very close to McCain's yard, and the hunt usually go onto the Cholmondeley estate.

ETA And re curtailing plans as per the thread title, I won't be hacking out for now, and I won't go ahead and book the neds in for their routine back check up until things become clearer. I don't want any non essential visits or handling by others atm.


----------



## ester (8 February 2019)

See Iâ€™ve seen a lot about not standing round talking to other horses. Itâ€™s airborne that isnâ€™t really going to make any difference.


----------



## Puddleduck (8 February 2019)

Moulton College have decided to close for this weekend so their BD on Sunday is cancelled.


----------



## SamBean (8 February 2019)

Just booked one in for next week who is due at beginning of April, other is fine. Local centre 2 miles away is still continuing with planned event this weekend. No cases confirmed near us so wondering if Iâ€™d be overreacting at this point by not even hacking the one who is booked in this weekend.


----------



## Ambers Echo (8 February 2019)

I can totally see why an outbreak  would be financially catastrophic for racing yards, big equestrian centres etc so if they decide to shut to safeguard their livelihoods then fair enough. But for the everyday rider is it such an issue? I am glad they are acting fast! I just think contrasting it with what happens with illness in people is interesting. Every year we have outbreaks of winter vomiting virus which shuts wards and sometimes hospitals and is every bit as unpleasant as it sounds. Plus human flu is a killer. But I can't imagine The Man U vs Man City football match being called off because their is a winter vomiting virus outbreak in Manchester. Who keeps their kids housebound when there is flu around? Why are we more stressed about our animals than our children? As far as I know public gatherings in people are only really cancelled for diseases like ebola.


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (8 February 2019)

Goldenstar said:



			Non of us have seen a full on equine flu epidemic out of control .
Thatâ€™s how we can be relaxed .
		
Click to expand...

*cough* Some of us have.
The vile flu that swept through the home counties in the 70s was dreadful.
My pony was very sick for over a fortnight,despite being vaccinated, 2 oldies on the yard we were on had to be pts as went to pneumonia, lots locally v unwell and this was an age when nearly all of us hacked to hunting, pony club and shows.  Think it was the winter of 74/75. Many didnt vaccinate then.
I suppose that's why I'm so hot on biosecurity anyway,  but wind born issues like this are a completely different kettle of fish to stop,  hence why racing has halted etc.


----------



## FestiveFuzz (8 February 2019)

I've cancelled our weekend plans at this point, and don't plan to go out until M has had his booster next week by which point the situation will hopefully be clearer. I'm possibly overreacting, but given we have two weanlings on the yard (and Dante has only just had his 2nd jab) I'd rather not take any unnecessary risks.


----------



## Cowpony (8 February 2019)

I've just withdrawn from my competition at the weekend and the yard has locked down in any case. Vet's advice was if you don't need to go then don't.


----------



## tristar (8 February 2019)

go to a comp get sneezed  or snorted on from a distance on once by an infectious horse, and you will catch it.

flu in horses is serious, it seemed worse in horses to me.

human society does not come to a standstill because we live so close together anyway, with horses we have the chance to control it because yards are further apart usually, and going on lockdown until the flu is contained, ie not competing or going to sales, gives everyone a better chance of avoiding and controlling an outbreak by confining it to a small area allowing it to die out and have less virus circulating in the population.

staying at home is the wisest option


----------



## PapaverFollis (8 February 2019)

My vet receptionist had no idea what I was talking about. But to be fair we are literally the arse end of apsolutely  nowhere so I don't think I need to panic just yet! Hopefully it's contained effectively and quickly. If I was back down in England she'd be getting a booster and we wouldn't be going anywhere.


----------



## flat3 (8 February 2019)

I know my horse was vaccinated in Dec and I'd assumed it was Prequenza as has been previously.

A localish venue (Gloucestershire) just posted on Facebook saying they require passports to be shown before unloading. So i just got his passport out to make sure it is all obviously in order (though we aren't going anywhere this weekend, just in case) and the date is in there, with 'flu' and vets signature but its missing the little sticker ðŸ˜• I wasn't there when it was done and clearly didn't do a thorough check when I got his passport back!

I've emailed the vets, but how big a deal is it that the little sticker is missing? I'm assuming they will confirm it was Prequenza so I'll have that piece of mind.


----------



## Chippers1 (8 February 2019)

PapaverFollis said:



			My vet receptionist had no idea what I was talking about. But to be fair we are literally the arse end of apsolutely  nowhere so I don't think I need to panic just yet! Hopefully it's contained effectively and quickly. If I was back down in England she'd be getting a booster and we wouldn't be going anywhere.
		
Click to expand...

Just called my vets to get his done earlier and they had no idea either! I'm in the East Midlands and apparently there's been outbreaks in Derbyshire and Leicestershire...


----------



## tatty_v (8 February 2019)

We were due to head out to unaffiliated local dressage at the weekend but weâ€™ve cancelled on the grounds that itâ€™s not important and weâ€™d rather be safe than sorry. Hopefully in a week or so things will be a bit clearer.


----------



## KINDMARE (8 February 2019)

does 'Lock down' include hacking?


----------



## Tiddlypom (8 February 2019)

Yes.


----------



## tristar (8 February 2019)

its a good idea to  stop hacking until until the smoke clears and it can be seen where the outbreaks are  and if they are contained or if it is spreading, but i suppose it depends where you are and  how isolated it is, and where the nearest outbreaks are


----------



## Denbob (8 February 2019)

Confirmed case in Somerset, although no word on whether horse is vaccinated. My visit to look at holiday livery has been cancelled and I won't be hacking or going near any other yards. Local venues seem to be cancelling unaffiliated events.


----------



## be positive (8 February 2019)

Denbob said:



			Confirmed case in Somerset, although no word on whether horse is vaccinated. My visit to look at holiday livery has been cancelled and I won't be hacking or going near any other yards. Local venues seem to be cancelling unaffiliated events.
		
Click to expand...

I was just going to say the same but knowing where it is, if the same yard, I would be extremely surprised if is is not vaccinated, I am cancelling my half term liveries coming in just in case they have had any contact with the yard in question.


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (8 February 2019)

Chiltern Equine posted an hour ago on Faceache that there was a case now confirmed in Middlesex,  but haven't put any more info.  V odd post from a vets to be honest  (not my vets!)


----------



## ester (8 February 2019)

BHS somerset (who ran a clinic/demo there yesterday) has confirmed millfield (somerset) horse was vaccinated (not sure with what) and was a school horse that doesn't leave the premises.


----------



## Auslander (8 February 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Chiltern Equine posted an hour ago on Faceache that there was a case now confirmed in Middlesex,  but haven't put any more info.  V odd post from a vets to be honest  (not my vets!)
		
Click to expand...

They are a bit special! One of their sites is less than 5 minutes drive from me, yet I use a different practice - go figure!


----------



## buddylove (9 February 2019)

I'm glad so many people are taking it seriously, I would not want my horses put at risk because some people think that a rosette/points/a good ole jolly are more important.


----------



## whiteflower (9 February 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Chiltern Equine posted an hour ago on Faceache that there was a case now confirmed in Middlesex,  but haven't put any more info.  V odd post from a vets to be honest  (not my vets!)
		
Click to expand...

I've just looked at that, and some of the irate comments and the reply they have just put on which basically says if you are a client of theirs you can ring them......very unprofessional way of going about things bearing in mind the concern on social media currently . It's been shared to one of the strangles/ehv/flu pages and people even questioned if it's true !! Doesnt say much for what people think of that practice ! 
I'm sure it will be updated with proper info on the aht website soon, the Somerset one is now on their and that's the only place I'll get information from as I know it's correct


----------



## Dynamo (9 February 2019)

Info for those questioning why we react more strongly to an equine outbreak than to a human outbreak:

Flu is much more serious than having a cold.  Genuine flu in humans causes deaths, as it does in horses.  If there was an outbreak of swine flu, or bird flu, or some other serious type of flu in a school close to your children's school, and if the schools had been competing at joint sports events, you might well think about keeping your children off school as a precaution.  It's not an over-reaction.

One of the horses that was first diagnosed has been PTS in the last 24 hours because of the severity of symptoms and non-response to treatment.  If you extrapolate from that, one horse in however many are positively diagnosed so far... fewer than 20?... that potentially amounts to a high percentage of deaths, higher than in a human flu outbreak.  

And it's easier to contain than a human flu outbreak, so why would we not contain it if we can?  

One person's over-reaction is another person's sensible precaution.


----------



## bonny (9 February 2019)

Dynamo said:



			Info for those questioning why we react more strongly to an equine outbreak than to a human outbreak:

Flu is much more serious than having a cold.  Genuine flu in humans causes deaths, as it does in horses.  If there was an outbreak of swine flu, or bird flu, or some other serious type of flu in a school close to your children's school, and if the schools had been competing at joint sports events, you might well think about keeping your children off school as a precaution.  It's not an over-reaction.

One of the horses that was first diagnosed has been PTS in the last 24 hours because of the severity of symptoms and non-response to treatment.  If you extrapolate from that, one horse in however many are positively diagnosed so far... fewer than 20?... that potentially amounts to a high percentage of deaths, higher than in a human flu outbreak. 

And it's easier to contain than a human flu outbreak, so why would we not contain it if we can? 

One person's over-reaction is another person's sensible precaution.
		
Click to expand...

This reads as complete and utter scaremonging, where is there any evidence that the handful of horses who have been found to be infected are even ill let alone dead ?


----------



## tristar (9 February 2019)

because we know from previous outbreaks what happens, its called learning from experience, reacting immediately is completely the right thing to do.


----------



## palo1 (9 February 2019)

This is taken from South Coast Equine Vets/Natalie McGoldrick Equine:-
_
Devastatingly, one of the UNVACCINATED horses identified with Influenza at the beginning of this week, has been euthanised due to severity of symptoms, despite intensive care.
This highlights the potential of this new strain to cause horrific consequences, and the absolute importance of VACCINATION. It may not completely prevent all symptoms, but all THREE flu vaccinations are resulting in much milder symptoms and quicker recoveries.
We have found that the level of immunity to â€˜flu is decreasing too much to offer sufficient protection after 6 months, hence the recommendation for boosters.
Many thanks to the brilliant team at the Animal Health Trust, for the constant updates, and who are about to work through the weekend testing thousands of swabs and bloods.
Finally, remember that this virus is AIRBORNE._

I am sure many people will be thinking about the way vets earn money from vaccination as well as the established view that herd immunity is vital and can only be achieved through a more significant percentage of the population getting vaccinated.  Even so, it is not scaremongering to report that 1 horse has had to be pts. Very sad.


----------



## bonny (9 February 2019)

palo1 said:



			This is taken from South Coast Equine Vets/Natalie McGoldrick Equine:-

_Devastatingly, one of the UNVACCINATED horses identified with Influenza at the beginning of this week, has been euthanised due to severity of symptoms, despite intensive care.
This highlights the potential of this new strain to cause horrific consequences, and the absolute importance of VACCINATION. It may not completely prevent all symptoms, but all THREE flu vaccinations are resulting in much milder symptoms and quicker recoveries.
We have found that the level of immunity to â€˜flu is decreasing too much to offer sufficient protection after 6 months, hence the recommendation for boosters.
Many thanks to the brilliant team at the Animal Health Trust, for the constant updates, and who are about to work through the weekend testing thousands of swabs and bloods.
Finally, remember that this virus is AIRBORNE._

I am sure many people will be thinking about the way vets earn money from vaccination as well as the established view that herd immunity is vital and can only be achieved through a more significant percentage of the population getting vaccinated.  Even so, it is not scaremongering to report that 1 horse has had to be pts. Very sad.
		
Click to expand...

Of course itâ€™s scaremongering, this horse has nothing to do with the racing situation....


----------



## The Trooper (9 February 2019)

This has been the boot up the backside i need to get mine vaccinated, i've been putting it off long enough. I was only going to get tet but have booked full vacs for them all on Monday.

Little risk of exposure at our yard from other horses, only real concern is one who goes out hunting occasionally. Farriers/vets etc transmitting is my biggest concern.


----------



## HashRouge (9 February 2019)

Is the general advice to get boosters done if they were done more than 6 months ago then? I've got the vet coming in just over a week to do my gelding as he is due anyway, but now wondering if I should get a booster done for my Arab at the same time as she was done in July? It's probably an overreaction, but she's 26 and don't want to take any chances. They never leave the yard but all their neighbours do regularly.


----------



## bonny (9 February 2019)

HashRouge said:



			Is the general advice to get boosters done if they were done more than 6 months ago then? I've got the vet coming in just over a week to do my gelding as he is due anyway, but now wondering if I should get a booster done for my Arab at the same time as she was done in July? It's probably an overreaction, but she's 26 and don't want to take any chances. They never leave the yard but all their neighbours do regularly.
		
Click to expand...

I sure your vet would say yes, personally I wouldnâ€™t vaccinate an old mare who goes nowhere let alone increase her boosters


----------



## SEL (9 February 2019)

HashRouge said:



			Is the general advice to get boosters done if they were done more than 6 months ago then? I've got the vet coming in just over a week to do my gelding as he is due anyway, but now wondering if I should get a booster done for my Arab at the same time as she was done in July? It's probably an overreaction, but she's 26 and don't want to take any chances. They never leave the yard but all their neighbours do regularly.
		
Click to expand...

Generally old, very young and immune compromised horses are more at risk than the general population so personally I'd vaccinate. It's a safe enough vaccine - side effects can be them being a bit 'off' for a day or so as the immune system kicks in, but that's better than full blown flu.

I was on a yard 30 odd years ago where they had flu go round with some very, very sick horses so I'm pro vaccination.


----------



## HashRouge (9 February 2019)

bonny said:



			I sure your vet would say yes, personally I wouldnâ€™t vaccinate an old mare who goes nowhere let alone increase her boosters
		
Click to expand...

SHE doesn't go anywhere, but the rest of the horses on the yard go out and about a lot (every weekend in most cases). She has contact with them, so she is still at risk.


----------



## catkin (9 February 2019)

HashRouge said:



			Is the general advice to get boosters done if they were done more than 6 months ago then? I've got the vet coming in just over a week to do my gelding as he is due anyway, but now wondering if I should get a booster done for my Arab at the same time as she was done in July? It's probably an overreaction, but she's 26 and don't want to take any chances. They never leave the yard but all their neighbours do regularly.
		
Click to expand...

You and your vet are the only ones who know your situation. A good question to ask them, but the veterinary advice from your attending vet who knows your set-up, management regime and the history of the horses is the advice to follow.


----------



## AdorableAlice (9 February 2019)

[QUOTE="bonny, post: 13937654, member:  personally I wouldnâ€™t vaccinate an old mare who goes nowhere let alone increase her boosters

Marvellous advice, god help any frail or compromised horse in your care.


----------



## Elf On A Shelf (9 February 2019)

HashRouge said:



			Is the general advice to get boosters done if they were done more than 6 months ago then? I've got the vet coming in just over a week to do my gelding as he is due anyway, but now wondering if I should get a booster done for my Arab at the same time as she was done in July? It's probably an overreaction, but she's 26 and don't want to take any chances. They never leave the yard but all their neighbours do regularly.
		
Click to expand...

If nothing else it would at least tie both of your horses vaccs together so no need to get 2 call put fees at different times of the year! Every cloud has a silver lining and all that!


----------



## ester (9 February 2019)

Wow

The racehorse population arenâ€™t some sort of entirely different entity to the rest of the UK equine herd

HR yes I would.


----------



## Tiddlypom (9 February 2019)

AdorableAlice said:



			[QUOTE="bonny, post: 13937654, member:  personally I wouldnâ€™t vaccinate an old mare who goes nowhere let alone increase her boosters

Marvellous advice, god help any frail or compromised horse in your care.
		
Click to expand...

She's only interested in her racing fix, the horses' welfare doesn't come into it.


----------



## bonny (9 February 2019)

Just out of interest how many people in the uk vaccinate their horses twice a year ?


----------



## bonny (9 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			She's only interested in her racing fix, the horses' welfare doesn't come into it.
		
Click to expand...

If people arenâ€™t interested in racing, then it doesnâ€™t exist ! Bit weird to moan about someone who wants to watch it .......racehorse welfare is a big issue as it is without bringing all this into it.


----------



## Auslander (9 February 2019)

whiteflower said:



			I've just looked at that, and some of the irate comments and the reply they have just put on which basically says if you are a client of theirs you can ring them......very unprofessional way of going about things bearing in mind the concern on social media currently . It's been shared to one of the strangles/ehv/flu pages and people even questioned if it's true !! Doesnt say much for what people think of that practice !
I'm sure it will be updated with proper info on the aht website soon, the Somerset one is now on their and that's the only place I'll get information from as I know it's correct
		
Click to expand...

I messaged the AHT with regards to that post, and got the following response.
"If you look at the statement in our website here: https://www.aht.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Equiflunet-outbreaks-2019-v4.pdf - this is the latest update from our laboratories, it is up-to-date to last night and is being updated regularly. We would expect a further update this evening if any more positives are diagnosed. Many thanks"


----------



## HashRouge (9 February 2019)

catkin said:



			You and your vet are the only ones who know your situation. A good question to ask them, but the veterinary advice from your attending vet who knows your set-up, management regime and the history of the horses is the advice to follow.
		
Click to expand...

I will ask what they think when I ring up to confirm the appointment time for the other one (it's a zone visit). It's just that boosters for the other one wouldn't have occurred to me before reading this thread. I thought she would be fine as she was done within 12 months. 



EKW said:



			If nothing else it would at least tie both of your horses vaccs together so no need to get 2 call put fees at different times of the year! Every cloud has a silver lining and all that!
		
Click to expand...

Haha yes, that's true! Although twice yearly visits are quite useful in some ways!



AdorableAlice said:



			[QUOTE="bonny, post: 13937654, member:  personally I wouldnâ€™t vaccinate an old mare who goes nowhere let alone increase her boosters

Marvellous advice, god help any frail or compromised horse in your care.
		
Click to expand...

I can't work out if bonny's advice is because she thinks that my mare isn't at risk (even though, as I said, other horses on the yard are out and about competing regularly) or because she thinks old horses aren't worth it. I'm assuming the former!


----------



## ester (9 February 2019)

Nah itâ€™s that non racehorses donâ€™t count


----------



## whiteflower (9 February 2019)

Auslander said:



			I messaged the AHT with regards to that post, and got the following response.
"If you look at the statement in our website here: https://www.aht.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Equiflunet-outbreaks-2019-v4.pdf - this is the latest update from our laboratories, it is up-to-date to last night and is being updated regularly. We would expect a further update this evening if any more positives are diagnosed. Many thanks"
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully it will show on tonight's update then as it was posted later yesterday eve.  I'm assuming people commenting knew the practice and didn't seem too positive towards them ! People are clearly concerned


----------



## zaminda (9 February 2019)

The ride I was helping at has been cancelled. As a yard we aren't competing or going to clinics at the moment but still hacking out although avoiding other horses. 
This has to be taken seriously and it will effect far more than racing if we aren't careful. I believe it shows we need far tighter controls on vaccination at competions and going forward think passports should be checked at every venue before unloading even after this is past. One of our local venues is still going ahead but they are checking passports for their affiliated competitions only and not checking the unaffiliated ones which seems mad to me.


----------



## whiteflower (9 February 2019)

For those interested the aht map has been updated with new cases


----------



## Snowfilly (9 February 2019)

The riding school jumping I'm going to tomorrow is still going ahead, but with a ban on outside horses attending. Liveries and hirelings only. School hire to outside horses has been cancelled until further notice and a couple of hacking routes are being altered to avoid horses right up against the tracks.

We're in Cornwall so a good distance from the nearest case but it still pays to be careful.

The school owner is very elderly and remembers flu epidemics in the 60s / 70s that he's got no desire to see again. His point to pointer is jumping out of his skin, having been ready to run today but it was cancelled as well.


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (9 February 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Chiltern Equine posted an hour ago on Faceache that there was a case now confirmed in Middlesex,  but haven't put any more info.  V odd post from a vets to be honest  (not my vets!)
		
Click to expand...

They  (Chiltern) have now updated that it's a confirmed case at Pinnerwood. Still not mentioned by AHT on the bulletin earlier tonight.

Edit: Middlesex doesn't exist now (silly vets) , this is actually the Hertfordshire one on AHT list so is confirmed.


----------



## catkin (9 February 2019)

Snowfilly said:



			The riding school jumping I'm going to tomorrow is still going ahead, but with a ban on outside horses attending. Liveries and hirelings only. School hire to outside horses has been cancelled until further notice and a couple of hacking routes are being altered to avoid horses right up against the tracks.

We're in Cornwall so a good distance from the nearest case but it still pays to be careful.

The school owner is very elderly and remembers flu epidemics in the 60s / 70s that he's got no desire to see again. His point to pointer is jumping out of his skin, having been ready to run today but it was cancelled as well.
		
Click to expand...

That all seems very sensible to me,  well done that school.


----------



## Chuckieee (10 February 2019)

catkin said:



			That all seems very sensible to me,  well done that school.
		
Click to expand...


My local yard has done this too BUT is still allowing liveries to go out compete and do clinics.  This seems odd to me.


----------



## Chuckieee (10 February 2019)

Snowfilly said:



			The riding school jumping I'm going to tomorrow is still going ahead, but with a ban on outside horses attending. Liveries and hirelings only. School hire to outside horses has been cancelled until further notice and a couple of hacking routes are being altered to avoid horses right up against the tracks.

We're in Cornwall so a good distance from the nearest case but it still pays to be careful.

The school owner is very elderly and remembers flu epidemics in the 60s / 70s that he's got no desire to see again. His point to pointer is jumping out of his skin, having been ready to run today but it was cancelled as well.
		
Click to expand...

Same here but theyâ€™re letting liveries go out compete and take part in clinics. THAT doesnâ€™t make sense.


----------



## popsdosh (10 February 2019)

ester said:



			Prequenza is one of the two that should be covering the FC1 strain.
That and proteq flu.

I wasnâ€™t aware until today that they donâ€™t all include it.
		
Click to expand...

Both of those were used in the 2yos in suffolk who have tested positive


----------



## ester (10 February 2019)

Yes I of all people know that! Which is why I say â€˜shouldâ€™


----------



## popsdosh (10 February 2019)

ester said:



			Yes I of all people know that! Which is why I say â€˜shouldâ€™
		
Click to expand...

I just worry that all those revaccinating are being sold a story and most believe by changing to those two think they are safe when clearly they are not.

Interestingly that yard has seen more vaccinated horses come up positive.

I have to admit for some reason this outbreak is being treated very seriously(well by racing) maybe because the Genie is out of the bottle so to speak . Back in the 2003 Newmarket outbreak 1300 horses tested positive and was contained as basically Newmarket was shut down and not the rest of the country.


----------



## ester (10 February 2019)

Its the best option, Iâ€™ve had words with vets using the statement â€˜fully coveredâ€™  and am trying not to sound too much like a broken record.


----------



## ihatework (10 February 2019)

Maybe Iâ€™m giving the general population too much credit for their intelligence, but the official messages seem pretty clear to me ðŸ˜‰

The strain of flu seems to be a variant. 
The 2 vaccinations recommended are the closest to covering that strain and whilst wonâ€™t necessarily prevent the infection itâ€™s looking like the symptoms are far milder than for unvaccinated horses.
There is a known decline in effectiveness over time (hence the FEI stance on 6 months) and therefore to maximise immunity and minimise chance of infection boosters for those over 6 months is not unreasonable.

For Â£30-40, I think that is a cost worthy of the risk-benefit. Slightly annoying timing for mine FEI wise, but thatâ€™s small fry.


----------



## ester (10 February 2019)

I do wish we knew how long ago the affected horses had been vaccinated.

Most of the time the general population baffles me, Iâ€™ve banned myself from Facebook groups ATM and then people tag me ðŸ˜¡


----------



## Tiddlypom (10 February 2019)

Popsdosh, it is still early days, but an early finding is that vaccinated horses are showing milder symptoms than unvaccinated horses. This is from a small sample, so the situation may change again, but I would still prefer to have vaccinated horses with a recent booster than unvaccinated horses.


----------



## Tiddlypom (10 February 2019)

Ester, you are one of those I can thank for giving the confidence for taking my neds barefoot. However, the barefoot community who I now interact with also seems to have a higher than normal proportion of anti vaxxers, anti ruggers, anti bits etc .


----------



## ihatework (10 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			Ester, you are one of those I can thank for giving the confidence for taking my neds barefoot. However, the barefoot community who I now interact with also seems to have a higher than normal proportion of anti vaxxers, anti ruggers, anti bits etc .
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t worry, those lot donâ€™t actually ride their horses anywhere anyway ðŸ˜‚


----------



## ester (10 February 2019)

Iâ€™m only in one barefoot group, I was warned off all the others!

I find a couple of farrier groups just as interesting .


----------



## popsdosh (10 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			Popsdosh, it is still early days, but an early finding is that vaccinated horses are showing milder symptoms than unvaccinated hirses. This is from a small sample, so the situation may change again, but I would still prefer to have vaccinated horses with a recent booster than unvaccinated horses.

View attachment 29528

Click to expand...

Not to be argumentative but in my view vaccinated horses that are not fully protected may be more at risk of long term damage to itself ( being worked with mild symptoms) and to other horses . I know some wont agree . I am not an anti vaccine , but i do like to know my horse has a problem rather than it being hidden by non effective vaccines.

Ester im not quite sure on what evidence you say that vaccinated horses are showing milder symptoms. Surely the Suffolk horses suggest they may not be as somebody thought their symptoms suggested they had it. This was before this all blew up so less likely to be overeacting. I would also suggest that they will have been vaccinated more recently than 6months due to normal practice for 2yos


----------



## {138171} (10 February 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			They  (Chiltern) have now updated that it's a confirmed case at Pinnerwood. Still not mentioned by AHT on the bulletin earlier tonight.

Edit: Middlesex doesn't exist now (silly vets) , this is actually the Hertfordshire one on AHT list so is confirmed.
		
Click to expand...

Um. Since when does Middlesex not exist and who gave you that information?? I can assure you it does exist! Myself my family and my friends all live in Middlesex!


----------



## ester (10 February 2019)

Itâ€™s been reported by numerous vets they could all be wrong of course. Itâ€™s not really a massive sample size.


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (10 February 2019)

FTB said:



			Um. Since when does Middlesex not exist and who gave you that information?? I can assure you it does exist! Myself my family and my friends all live in Middlesex!
		
Click to expand...

According to the AHT it doesn't! Hence why they changed the vet reporting from Middx to Herts..... but the vets still insist on Middx

Officially it was abolished in 1965, the GLC was formed. Middlesex is still used as a reference by those who live there tho


----------



## Tiddlypom (10 February 2019)

There are two groups of infected horses in Suffolk. The non vaccinated ones were sicker and needed more support than the vaccinated ones, and one non vaccinated horse had to be PTS.

Screen shot of yesterday's AHT update (the most recent one).



ETA Plus there are two more cases, in vaccinated 2yo Tbs, at part of the same Suffolk site, reported yesterday.


----------



## {138171} (10 February 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			According to the AHT it doesn't! Hence why they changed the vet reporting from Middx to Herts..... but the vets still insist on Middx

Officially it was abolished in 1965, the GLC was formed. Middlesex is still used as a reference by those who live there tho 

Click to expand...

Sorry but that is simply not true. Middlesex  has never been 'abolished' its as prevelant as Essex or Hertfordshire. The AHT have it wrong and the vets are right. I assume the vets are a Middlesex based vet therefore know exactly where the poor horse/s reside.


----------



## DabDab (10 February 2019)

FTB said:



			Sorry but that is simply not true. Middlesex  has never been 'abolished' its as prevelant as Essex or Hertfordshire. The AHT have it wrong and the vets are right. I assume the vets are a Middlesex based vet therefore know exactly where the poor horse/s reside.
		
Click to expand...

No, seriously, it is not an official county anymore.


----------



## ester (10 February 2019)

Why doesnâ€™t it occur on the current list or the current map then?


----------



## {138171} (10 February 2019)




----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (10 February 2019)

FTB said:



			Sorry but that is simply not true. Middlesex  has never been 'abolished' its as prevelant as Essex or Hertfordshire. The AHT have it wrong and the vets are right. I assume the vets are a Middlesex based vet therefore know exactly where the poor horse/s reside.
		
Click to expand...

Dont shoot me down! And no need to have sent that PM either!  ðŸ¤¬ Blimey, unwind your knickers!

Rutland, Cumbernauld etc etc are still referred to by locals, but they no longer exist as counties either!


----------



## Tiddlypom (10 February 2019)

Flat earth society, anyone?


----------



## SEL (10 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			Ester, you are one of those I can thank for giving the confidence for taking my neds barefoot. However, the barefoot community who I now interact with also seems to have a higher than normal proportion of anti vaxxers, anti ruggers, anti bits etc .
		
Click to expand...

I'm on that particular FB group - its a good thing I've been a bit too busy to rant on the anti vax post, but there's others on a few more forums I follow. More frightening is the number of supposedly intelligent people I know in real life who don't vaccinate their horses.


----------



## ycbm (10 February 2019)

...


----------



## popsdosh (10 February 2019)

SEL said:



			I'm on that particular FB group - its a good thing I've been a bit too busy to rant on the anti vax post, but there's others on a few more forums I follow. More frightening is the number of supposedly intelligent people I know in real life who don't vaccinate their horses.
		
Click to expand...

Wind your horns in!!!since when has it been compulsory to vaccinate my horses. As much as I respect your freedom to do yours dont criticise those that dont.  Clearly the vaccinations have done a wonderful job on this one .

I have never had a horse with equine flu ,nothing remarkable you say, however I have lost two young thoroughbreds with botched vaccinations in the last 15yrs. So to me its a no brainer!


----------



## Tiddlypom (10 February 2019)

Popsdosh, sorry about your two lost youngsters but you still vaccinate against tetanus, though, surely?

Re the Middlesex/Herts thing, here's the latest AHT update on tonight, no new cases reported (phew) but  :-

_UPDATE: 10 February 2019

New in this update:
â€¢ CORRECTION â€“ Case incorrectly reported yesterday (9 Feburary 2019) as being in

Hertfordshire but should have been reported as being in MIDDLESEX. AHT would like to apologise for this error._

Do we need to eat humble pie?


----------



## PapaverFollis (10 February 2019)

Personally I quite enjoyed a thread about flu and vaccines etc disintegrating into a spat about the existence of Middlesex... of all the things that it could have disintegrated into.


----------



## DabDab (10 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			Popsdosh, sorry about your two lost youngsters but you still vaccinate against tetanus, though, surely?

Re the Middlesex/Herts thing, here's the latest AHT update on tonight, no new cases reported (phew) but  :-

_UPDATE: 10 February 2019

New in this update:
â€¢ CORRECTION â€“ Case incorrectly reported yesterday (9 Feburary 2019) as being in

Hertfordshire but should have been reported as being in MIDDLESEX. AHT would like to apologise for this error._

Do we need to eat humble pie?
		
Click to expand...

If they also describe any cases in Shropshire as being from Salop. Or any cases in Wolverhampton as being in Staffordshire or any other random examples from around the messy geography of the UK, then sure, I'll eat humble pie


----------



## hollyandivy123 (10 February 2019)

popsdosh said:



			Wind your horns in!!!since when has it been compulsory to vaccinate my horses. As much as I respect your freedom to do yours dont criticise those that dont.  Clearly the vaccinations have done a wonderful job on this one .

I have never had a horse with equine flu ,nothing remarkable you say, however I have lost two young thoroughbreds with botched vaccinations in the last 15yrs. So to me its a no brainer!
		
Click to expand...

Vaccination work to two levels, 
1. Providing the animal/human with an improved immune arsenal if they meet the disease. They will still have symptoms but often subclinical in most cases, but without would have a far worse clinical response. 
2. Herd immunity, preventing transmission through the population. This also protects parts of the population who canâ€™t be vaccinated or has an immune system which is not able to respond in a normal way. This is why in the human population there is an increase in diseases such as measles, due to kids not being vaccinated.


----------



## popsdosh (10 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			Popsdosh, sorry about your two lost youngsters but you still vaccinate against tetanus, though, surely?

Re the Middlesex/Herts thing, here's the latest AHT update on tonight, no new cases reported (phew) but  :-

_UPDATE: 10 February 2019

New in this update:
â€¢ CORRECTION â€“ Case incorrectly reported yesterday (9 Feburary 2019) as being in

Hertfordshire but should have been reported as being in MIDDLESEX. AHT would like to apologise for this error._

Do we need to eat humble pie?
		
Click to expand...

Thank you ,yes they are all done for Tet from babies  . Wouldnt compromise on that. we do them ourselves !
I am lucky in that the youngsters are a closed herd as such with no other horses close enough to introduce anything. I do like them to have a chance to build up their own immunity to everyday bugs that they may encounter before they ultimately compete and have compulsory vacs.

On the Middlesex thing . it was removed as an official county either administrative or ceremonial in 1965. I think the AHT have been got at by the flat earth society.


----------



## popsdosh (10 February 2019)

hollyandivy123 said:



			Vaccination work to two levels,
1. Providing the animal/human with an improved immune arsenal if they meet the disease. They will still have symptoms but often subclinical in most cases, but without would have a far worse clinical response.
2. Herd immunity, preventing transmission through the population. This also protects parts of the population who canâ€™t be vaccinated or has an immune system which is not able to respond in a normal way. This is why in the human population there is an increase in diseases such as measles, due to kids not being vaccinated.
		
Click to expand...

lovely to trolled on here as well!

Herd immunity doesnt work very well when there is a breakdown in the immunity provided by the vaccine as in this case. 
Subclinical cases can still be a danger to other horses and will speed up the mutation of the virus.A case could be made that a vaccinated herd may be more likely to suffer more when challenged by a mutation. They can also be at extra danger themselves if the rider has not spotted the subtle changes that result from the infection being masked and the horse is asked to do strenuous exertion the very reason the racing industry is nervous on this.


----------



## popsdosh (11 February 2019)

4 more positives at Simon Crisfords Newmarket yard . A flat trainer with no links to any of Mccains horses . 
However for whatever reason Newcastles all weather flat meeting was deemed as suspect even though there was no linking factor so all 174 horses had been tested. Luckily for Newmarket its to a great degree off season for them.


----------



## hollyandivy123 (11 February 2019)

popsdosh said:



			lovely to trolled on here as well!

Herd immunity doesnt work very well when there is a breakdown in the immunity provided by the vaccine as in this case.
Subclinical cases can still be a danger to other horses and will speed up the mutation of the virus.A case could be made that a vaccinated herd may be more likely to suffer more when challenged by a mutation. They can also be at extra danger themselves if the rider has not spotted the subtle changes that result from the infection being masked and the horse is asked to do strenuous exertion the very reason the racing industry is nervous on this.
		
Click to expand...

Hardly trolling just basic science and biology popsdosh.

How does a subclinical case speed virus mutation rate?


----------



## DabDab (11 February 2019)

Surely if someone has a closed herd out of reach of other horses, then their choice to vaccinate or not shouldn't be something for others to get over excited about?


----------



## Elf On A Shelf (11 February 2019)

popsdosh said:



			4 more positives at Simon Crisfords Newmarket yard . A flat trainer with no links to any of Mccains horses . 
However for whatever reason Newcastles all weather flat meeting was deemed as suspect even though there was no linking factor so all 174 horses had been tested. Luckily for Newmarket its to a great degree off season for them.
		
Click to expand...

Rebecca Menzies had horses at Newcastle that day and she suspected sh had a couple of ill horses which have since tested negative to flu.


----------



## Tiddlypom (11 February 2019)

DabDab said:



			Surely if someone has a closed herd out of reach of other horses, then their choice to vaccinate or not shouldn't be something for others to get over excited about?
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, it's not something I would do but Popsdosh has explained his valid reasons for not wanting his herd done.

True antivaxxers won't vaccinate against tetanus or anything else either, now that is truly bonkers.

ETA The flat earth society do seem to have got a result...


----------



## popsdosh (11 February 2019)

EKW said:



			Rebecca Menzies had horses at Newcastle that day and she suspected sh had a couple of ill horses which have since tested negative to flu.
		
Click to expand...

As far as im aware horses from Newcastle were already being tested before Rebecca's horses were suspect


----------



## popsdosh (11 February 2019)

hollyandivy123 said:



			Hardly trolling just basic science and biology popsdosh.

How does a subclinical case speed virus mutation rate?
		
Click to expand...

What a coincidence then?LOL
  Simply because any pathogen will mutate quicker if challenged by a defence mechanism that nearly controls it . How does AB resistance become prevalent ,Viruses mutate in the same way if not challenged they dont need to mutate so quickly its their survival mechanism.
That of course is the simplistic answer im sure theres others who may elaborate.


----------



## Elf On A Shelf (11 February 2019)

popsdosh said:



			As far as im aware horses from Newcastle were already being tested before Rebecca's horses were suspect
		
Click to expand...

Yup which is why they are being tested as Menzies hadnt got her results back at that point. Hopefullt no one else will test postive now but a return to racing isnt looking likely any time soon annoyingly.


----------



## popsdosh (11 February 2019)

A lot depends on any links closer to home for Crisfords horses which maybe more likely as the 2yos in suffolk may already have a few links into town.
In which case they may be able to shut down just Newmarket as in 2003 and keep a lid on it


----------



## SEL (11 February 2019)

popsdosh said:



			What a coincidence then?LOL
  Simply because any pathogen will mutate quicker if challenged by a defence mechanism that nearly controls it . How does AB resistance become prevalent ,Viruses mutate in the same way if not challenged they dont need to mutate so quickly its their survival mechanism.
That of course is the simplistic answer im sure theres others who may elaborate.
		
Click to expand...

Just went and googled this out of interest. Apparently there's been quite a bit of debate on whether the flu vaccine in humans is likely to cause the virus to mutate faster / more aggressively. Human sciencey site obviously but....

_Vaccinations and antibiotic regimes work differently. Vaccinations prime the immune system for the possible encounter with a virus in the weeks, months or years to come. Antibiotics kill or inhibit the growth of bacteria already infecting you.

Whereas bacteria can evade an antibiotic and then pass along the genes of antibiotic resistance to offspring, viruses don't have direct contact with vaccines and thus aren't affected by them in this way.

"Influenza is a mutating virus, and this feature is related to [its] genome structure; it has nothing to do with vaccines," explained Mohammed Alsharifi of the Australian National University, lead author on the paper "Intranasal flu vaccine protective against seasonal and H5N1 avian influenza infections," recently posted on PLoS ONE, an online journal. "[The concept of] antibiotic resistant bacteria cannot be applied to viruses."

Viral mutations â€” the sort that allow the flu to evolve â€” come about in two ways, through antigenic drift or antigenic shift. Drift former refers to random mutations in a virus' genes, often responsible for heavier-than-normal flu seasons. Antigenic shift refers to the troublesome mixture of two or more strains, as seen in H1N1. Here, pigs likely were infected simultaneously by at least two strains of flu, and the viruses combined inside infected host cells._


----------



## hollyandivy123 (11 February 2019)

popsdosh said:



			What a coincidence then?LOL
  Simply because any pathogen will mutate quicker if challenged by a defence mechanism that nearly controls it . How does AB resistance become prevalent ,Viruses mutate in the same way if not challenged they dont need to mutate so quickly its their survival mechanism.
That of course is the simplistic answer im sure theres others who may elaborate.
		
Click to expand...

Simple answer ... antibiotics work differently to vaccination for immunity. Ab tend to work on one cellular process take ampicillin binds a protein involved in cell wall production, the resistance genes which  then permit survival as a antibiotic target has changed or pumps are utilised to remove the ab from the cell. Pathogens can "select for a mutation", ie a change in a gene permits that one bacteria to grow and then it clonal expansion,






antibiotic resistance tends to be on genetic elements which can move into new strains and species, increasing the population of bacteria with the resistance for that antibiotic.

which is why using antibiotics when not needed is bad and especially using them in meat production, and travelling this product around the well is not going to help the fight against bacterial infection/resistance.

Vaccination tends to use multiple epitope sites for full immunity, if the viral coat changes in one aspect then it is partial immunity etc

you beat me to it SEL


----------



## littlefluffball (11 February 2019)

playing it safe here.  None of mine will be leaving the yard in the immediate future.  May be being over cautious but I would rather that thatn the alternative


----------



## TheMule (11 February 2019)

popsdosh said:



			Simply because any pathogen will mutate quicker if challenged by a defence mechanism that nearly controls it . How does AB resistance become prevalent ,Viruses mutate in the same way if not challenged they dont need to mutate so quickly its their survival mechanism.
That of course is the simplistic answer im sure theres others who may elaborate.
		
Click to expand...

That's not correct on several levels.

1) Antibiotics do not cause bacteria to mutate, bacteria which have a mutation that makes them more antibiotic resistance are more sucessful when challenged with antibiotics so more likely to pass that mutation on either horizontally or vertically

2) Neither bacteria nor viruses mutate in a response to anything your body does (mutation is random but linked to environmental factors), therefore having an effective specific immune response to either the pathogen or a very similar strain will not affect the pathogen in any way (well, other than killing it, which is kind of the point!)

3) If you reduce the severity of symptoms you will massively help to reduce the risk of spreading the infection- a horse which sneezes and coughs a little will not pass on as much virus as a horse who does it a lot. They will also have a much lower viral load to pass on.


----------



## Mule (11 February 2019)

SEL said:



			Just went and googled this out of interest. Apparently there's been quite a bit of debate on whether the flu vaccine in humans is likely to cause the virus to mutate faster / more aggressively. Human sciencey site obviously but....

_Vaccinations and antibiotic regimes work differently. Vaccinations prime the immune system for the possible encounter with a virus in the weeks, months or years to come. Antibiotics kill or inhibit the growth of bacteria already infecting you._

_Whereas bacteria can evade an antibiotic and then pass along the genes of antibiotic resistance to offspring, viruses don't have direct contact with vaccines and thus aren't affected by them in this way._

_"Influenza is a mutating virus, and this feature is related to [its] genome structure; it has nothing to do with vaccines," explained Mohammed Alsharifi of the Australian National University, lead author on the paper "Intranasal flu vaccine protective against seasonal and H5N1 avian influenza infections," recently posted on PLoS ONE, an online journal. "[The concept of] antibiotic resistant bacteria cannot be applied to viruses."_

_Viral mutations â€” the sort that allow the flu to evolve â€” come about in two ways, through antigenic drift or antigenic shift. Drift former refers to random mutations in a virus' genes, often responsible for heavier-than-normal flu seasons. Antigenic shift refers to the troublesome mixture of two or more strains, as seen in H1N1. Here, pigs likely were infected simultaneously by at least two strains of flu, and the viruses combined inside infected host cells._

Click to expand...

That's good. Antibiotic resistance is bad enough.


----------



## DressageCob (11 February 2019)

Mine are vaccinated but I'm not taking the risk. None of my competing activities are important enough to risk infection. I would be so upset if we carried it back onto our yard. 

I don't pretend to understand all the science. I know this isn't the first flu outbreak ever. I also know the proportion of horses is relatively small. But I'm not taking the risk. 

one of the main cases is within a few miles of me and not only do they have racehorses but the younger generation also have ponies which they take to local venues for show jumping. So it's just not worth the risk for me.


----------



## bonny (11 February 2019)

Racing is back on Wednesday ....


----------



## Bernster (12 February 2019)

bonny said:



			Racing is back on Wednesday ....
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if this will lead to a different response from venues etc.  Lots around me (Herts) are cancelling, others are checking passports for vacc history.


----------



## criso (12 February 2019)

Bernster said:



			I wonder if this will lead to a different response from venues etc.  Lots around me (Herts) are cancelling, others are checking passports for vacc history.
		
Click to expand...

And lots are now asking for vacs in the last 6 months but not in last  7 days.  My dressage on Sat was cancelled but I wouldn't have had time for a 6 month booster anyway.


----------



## DabDab (12 February 2019)

Well I said that I would post results from my snotty lot on another thread, but this one is more current now. Particularly one of mine was very snotty and coughing heartily and I had booked the vet the day before the racehorse story exploded, so when they came they took swabs and bloods mainly for due diligence on the flu front. Results back today and all negative for flu, which is great news, so just some other passing virus.


----------



## MagicMelon (12 February 2019)

Isn't there always equine flu around?  I thought it was always around somewhere in the UK but is only being made into a big deal this time purely because its in the news for affecting racing?


----------



## PapaverFollis (12 February 2019)

It IS a big deal because vaccinated horses are getting it. And there's more cases than normal. It's a big deal because it looks like a new strain that UK horses are not vaccinated against or only partially protected from  due to being vaccinated for a similar strain but not exactly the same one.


----------



## Red-1 (12 February 2019)

Many of the vaccinated horses who have tested positive have been symptom free. That is, to me, a great positive that is not worth minimising.


----------



## Quadro (12 February 2019)

Now a case in Scotland. Horse is unvaccinated. Blame seems to be placed at Billy Stewart's door. Whether that is true or not?


----------



## blood_magik (12 February 2019)

Quadro said:



			Now a case in Scotland. Horse is unvaccinated. Blame seems to be placed at Billy Stewart's door. Whether that is true or not?
		
Click to expand...

This popped up on my FB feed earlier and Iâ€™m now wondering if we should cancel all planned clinics and hires instead of checking passports and turning away unvaccinated horses. ðŸ˜•

Might phone the vet in the morning and see what they recommend.


----------



## Quadro (12 February 2019)

Stanmore have cancelled everything seemingly on the advice of their vet. Have a nose at their fb page


----------



## Tiddlypom (13 February 2019)

The Scottish case hasn't been listed yet on the AHT website. Do the AHT cover Scottish cases, does anyone know?

It  seems very unfortunate for the new owner and the yard to which it just been moved. Initial flu jab done, strangles test done, then it still gets sick. 

I believe that a horse isn't clear to compete until 7 days after the 2nd jab of the initial course.


----------



## Ambers Echo (13 February 2019)

Red-1 said:



			Many of the vaccinated horses who have tested positive have been symptom free. That is, to me, a great positive that is not worth minimising.
		
Click to expand...

This exactly. Had an interesting chat with my vet yesterday when mine were having their boosters. He picked up one of the first cases at the beginning of the year in an unvaccinated horse and said the swab sent to the AHT was absolutely laden with flu virus and that the affected horse was a) very sick and b) spewing out shedloads of virus all over the place. That case went on his FB page which is why I have been more flu-aware for a while now. On the other hand he said that even though some infection can break through the vaccination those horses are only shedding a tiny fraction of virus in comparison with the unvaccinated horses. His overall take is that flu is on the up but remains rare and that vaccination is by far the best way to protect your own and other horses.

Food for thought: unvaccinated horses are - scientifically speaking - at far greater risk themselves and also present a far greater risk to others than vaccinated horses who are still out and about. That was true before this outbreak, remains true now and will still be true when the outbreak is over. So if people are going to worry about flu, they should logically focus their concern on the low vaccination rates and not on covered horses out and about. And it would make more sense for YO's to refuse to have unvaccinated liveries than to stop the vaccinated and non exposed horses from going out. I don't care what other people do - people can make up their own minds. But when anti or non vaxxers start criticising all movements on safety grounds then I want to bang my head against a wall.

Oh and just as a random aside - the only reason vets are able to cope with the current upsurge in demand is because they had been stockpiling vaccine for Brexit! Who said nothing good could come of Brexit.....


----------



## Quadro (13 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			The Scottish case hasn't been listed yet on the AHT website. Do the AHT cover Scottish cases, does anyone know?

It  seems very unfortunate for the new owner and the yard to which it just been moved. Initial flu jab done, strangles test done, then it still gets sick.

I believe that a horse isn't clear to compete until 7 days after the 2nd jab of the initial course.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure, but i assume from her statement that it has been properly confirmed?


----------



## Puddleduck (13 February 2019)

Thereâ€™s a post on FB page for the Dick vets that says itâ€™s confirmed 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2748956481796264&id=307883992570204


----------



## AnShanDan (13 February 2019)

Case in Central Scotland is 100% confirmed.  The vets there are my vets and on their advice last night we are cancelling PC rallies until further notice too. So annoying as we were about to re-start after our winter break, but better to try to nip anything going round in the bud rather than have it drag on for weeks potentially.


----------



## bonny (13 February 2019)

AnShanDan said:



			Case in Central Scotland is 100% confirmed.  The vets there are my vets and on their advice last night we are cancelling PC rallies until further notice too. So annoying as we were about to re-start after our winter break, but better to try to nip anything going round in the bud rather than have it drag on for weeks potentially.
		
Click to expand...

If the horse that has tested positive has come from Ireland and bearing in mind there is no restriction on movement of horses and isnâ€™t about to be, how is anything going to â€œbe nipped in the budâ€ ? With the attitude people seem to want of not doing anything with there horses whilst random cases are being reported surely this situation could potentially carry on forever ?


----------



## blood_magik (13 February 2019)

I saw stanmores post - that what was got me wondering about wether or not we should be cancelling things.

Waiting on my vet calling me back


----------



## Tiddlypom (13 February 2019)

Ambers Echo said:



			So if people are going to worry about flu, they should logically focus their concern on the low vaccination rates and not on covered horses out and about.
		
Click to expand...

As more information emerges, then folk can probably relax a bit if their horses are indeed correctly vaccinated with a recent booster, as all mine are. I stand 100% behind my stand that,* in the early days,* post the McCain yard + ve result in the vaccinated horses, it was unwise to carry on competing, hunting etc as normal. Just a week's hold would have been minimal inconvenience.

ETA And, of course, there is no requirement for hunters to be vaccinated.


----------



## AnShanDan (13 February 2019)

The horse that has tested positive has come from Ireland, it came through a dealers yard then to Giorgia's last week. Other horses will have left that yard too, gone goodness knows where. We have members who will be on yards all over west central belt.  We hold rallies at a big livery yard with horses coming and going all the time. So, on veterinary advice, we have cancelled our PC rallies for short term. Common sense.

According to AHT reported cases of flu were at a very low level up to Sept. 2018, now they are not, so clearly there is an issue somewhere.


----------



## catkin (13 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			As more information emerges, then folk can probably relax a bit if their horses are indeed correctly vaccinated with a recent booster, as all mine are. I stand 100% behind my stand that,* in the early days,* post the McCain yard + ve result in the vaccinated horses, it was unwise to carry on competing, hunting etc as normal. Just a week's hold would have been minimal inconvenience.

ETA And, of course, there is no requirement for hunters to be vaccinated.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely this.
Also, there is a time-lag whilst the new boosters are getting up to strength in the horse - that's why there is a 7 day time delay rule before competing. Those starting a course are not protected until quite a few weeks in either.

Someone put up a link on here to a very informative webpage from Lingfield Equine Vets on vaccination and how it works - well worth a read, and study of the charts.

Mine had boosters yesterday but they are not ready to go out and about yet (and on vets advice there will still be places that we are best avoiding as one of ours is a vulnerable oldie)

We also have to accept that advice for right now could be subject to change as more information comes to light.


----------



## oldie48 (13 February 2019)

https://www.pcuk.org/uploads/vaccs_rule_18.pdf


What I really don't understand is why the PC does not make vaccinations mandatory for all members ponies regardless of whether they are competing at area level. Can anyone explain this, please?


----------



## AnShanDan (13 February 2019)

oldie48 said:



https://www.pcuk.org/uploads/vaccs_rule_18.pdf


What I really don't understand is why the PC does not make vaccinations mandatory for all members ponies regardless of whether they are competing at area level. Can anyone explain this, please?
		
Click to expand...

The Pony Club is a law  unto itself , think you'd need to direct this question to Stoneleigh 

Guess you could ask the same of riding clubs, do they all require full vac. history? 

We have told all our members to make sure their vacs. are up to date for when we resume rallies, but it's a tricky one insisting without any actual rules. We use a big livery yard for rallies, we have no idea if the horses and ponies there are vaccinated or not.

When you go to BS no one checks your passport let alone vaccinations. At BE events there are very occasional random checks, but mostly not.


----------



## Quadro (13 February 2019)

It is really hard to know what to do for the best. Was meaning to take a horse to a schooling night tonight but now am unsure. She had her yearly vacc in Jan so well covered. Maybe worrying too much, but am near dealers who are very very friendly with the dealers the infected horse came from!


----------



## Tiddlypom (13 February 2019)

The AHT has updated its flu listings since first thing this morning. Dated 12/12 (yesterday) there were 3 new cases, in Central Scotland (as discussed upthread), Kent and Derbyshire. All these new cases seem to have Irish connections.


----------



## Ambers Echo (13 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			ETA And, of course, there is no requirement for hunters to be vaccinated.
		
Click to expand...

That's bonkers! I've never hunted but I assumed that hunting would require vaccination? What about pleasure rides? Maybe the solution is to tighten up vaccination policy?

In my table of risk from low to high risk,  I reckon it is:

Vaccinated horses no movement
Vaccinated horses moving and mixing with other vaccinated horses (ie competitions and clinics)
Unvaccinated horses no movement (it's airborne so they are still vulnerable.)
Unvaccinated horses hacking alone
Unvaccinated mixing with other unvaccinated horses.
Unvaccinated mixing with other unvaccinated horses while completely knackered & immuno-supressed. ie HUNTING!!!

And worst of all: Unvaccinated mixing with other unvaccinated horses while completely knackered in an outbreak area. 

If that is what is happening near you I am not surprised you are furious.


----------



## Tiddlypom (13 February 2019)

Thanks, AE, yes, that is what is happening near here. The most local pack to McCains yard did not appear to go out yesterday, but two neighbouring packs did, each about 13 miles from McCains.

Additonally, it is not as simple as the landowner or tenant farmer witholding permission for the hunt to cross their land if they want to protect their unvaccinated or sick equines. Round here, the big sporting estates including Cholmondeley, of whom D.McCain is a tenant, still require tenants to allow the hunt to cross their land as part of the tenancy agreement.


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (13 February 2019)

Now confirmed in Kent and also Sussex  Mayes and Scrine posted earlier to confirm that it's in their catchment area in Sussex and warning of events might need cancelling.  Seemingly it's on the march.


----------



## Puddleduck (13 February 2019)

Markfield EC in Leicestershire have posted on their FB page confirming  they have a case. Yard is now on lockdown


----------



## meleeka (13 February 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Now confirmed in Kent and also Sussex  Mayes and Scrine posted earlier to confirm that it's in their catchment area in Sussex and warning of events might need cancelling.  Seemingly it's on the march.
		
Click to expand...

I read that all cases were from recently imported horses or horses closely linked to recently imported, so it still seems to be fairly contained.


----------



## DressageCob (14 February 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			Thanks, AE, yes, that is what is happening near here. The most local pack to McCains yard did not appear to go out yesterday, but two neighbouring packs did, each about 13 miles from McCains.

Additonally, it is not as simple as the landowner or tenant farmer witholding permission for the hunt to cross their land if they want to protect their unvaccinated or sick equines. Round here, the big sporting estates including Cholmondeley, of whom D.McCain is a tenant, still require tenants to allow the hunt to cross their land as part of the tenancy agreement.
		
Click to expand...

There is that...and also the fact that a certain local hunt don't care whether they have permission or not and just cross whichever land they fancy. 

It's not just the hunts though. Even the local venues which attract racehorses aren't closing or even asking for proof of vaccination. That's a surprise to me.


----------



## Tiddlypom (14 February 2019)

DressageCob said:



			There is that...and also the fact that a certain local hunt don't care whether they have permission or not and just cross whichever land they fancy.
		
Click to expand...

That too, regardless of whether there are horses and ponies (or other animals) turned out on that land...


----------



## MagicMelon (16 February 2019)

I went to a local unaffiliated SJ event today, they said all horses were to remain in boxes until passports had been checked by the entry secretary, I believe one person didnt take their passport so they were told to leave.  There's always flu around, my horse ia vaccinated (just had usual annual booster a few days ago) and I would always keep her away from other horses anyway so I felt it was very low risk, no more so than at any other time.  

I wont be hacking past/near other horses at the moment though, just in case they weren't vaccinated (none near me anyway).


----------



## Bernster (17 February 2019)

Feeling conflicted - lots of events still on and people are out as normal, but also lots getting cancelled.  Yard in Norfolk has a case and they had a dresssage comp there recently

Iâ€™m on self imposed lock down as sorting out his update flu vaccine and lorry now getting tested, so we wonâ€™t be out for a few weeks. Iâ€™m glad really as I feel like a few weeks to let this settle down does make sense.


----------



## Goldenstar (17 February 2019)

I have had all of mine given an extra booster .
From Monday I am carrying on as normal .


----------



## Britestar (17 February 2019)

"Oh and just as a random aside - the only reason vets are able to cope with the current upsurge in demand is because they had been stockpiling vaccine for Brexit! Who said nothing good could come of Brexit...."

I hope they continue to stockpile, as next feb there are going to be 1000's of horses needing their boosters at the same time!!


----------



## Ambers Echo (17 February 2019)

Britestar said:



			"Oh and just as a random aside - the only reason vets are able to cope with the current upsurge in demand is because they had been stockpiling vaccine for Brexit! Who said nothing good could come of Brexit...."

I hope they continue to stockpile, as next feb there are going to be 1000's of horses needing their boosters at the same time!!
		
Click to expand...

If the rules stay as they are (ie 6 months being required in many places) they will  all need re-doing again in August! He said he really does not think vets will have enough vaccine available for August.


----------

