# Rant - The Current Dog 'Pandemic'



## AShetlandBitMeOnce (13 September 2021)

It feels as though everywhere I turn at the moment, the dog breeding and owning world is a complete mess..

The dogs we breed today are a mess..  So many can't breathe, have skin issues and horrible hip/elbow dysplasia as if they're merle we'll let them have as many litters as humanly possible, regardless of health scores or temperament.

Some crosses I have seen have just been moronic - like a Great Dane/Cane Corso, what normal human who lives in a normal English Town needs a dog like that?! Someone I know has just bought a Cane Corso/Tibetan Mastiff cross in a small house with a young child. She also breeds toy poodles which seem to be sold on how small they can get them, and she is forever posting about how sad she is to have lost one as it fell off a step and smashed all it's legs into pieces, I assume as their bones are so small and fragile they can't withstand it.  They're having 1-2 puppies from a bitch and constantly traumatic births, yet she is lauded by all of the other breeders on her posts - to me that would be a sign that the line needs to stop there.

There is a pandemic in itself of people buying inappropriate dogs and something needs to be done about it.. I often see a very early 20's lad with 2 Malinois for gods sake - and they are unruly at best. I am surrounded by dog groomers which won't take walk ins, or doodles as they are either too busy or they are sick of people lambasting their business because their dog needed a full shave as it was completely matted. I also seem to have a Facebook page full of dog with cropped ears, which is becoming more and more popular in the UK (I have lots of boxing contacts on my social media as I was involved in the sport, those two things may be linked).

Don't even get me started on the 'pocket bullys' which are becoming a terrifying trend and which also can't bloody move.

Sorry - rant over!


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## Parrotperson (13 September 2021)

oh agree. its terrible. Yesterday I meet someone who out of pity had rescued (bless them I wouldn't have) a yorkie poodle cross. I mean why breed that? I mean I know why but. 🤬


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## CorvusCorax (13 September 2021)

I was asked to help rehome two Malinois in the space of five days. A 10 month old slated to be PTS because his owner stuck his hand into the middle of a scrap with a smaller dog and his missus demanded it be euthanised 🙄 and a two year old dumped by a man on his ex who has to leave the dog 7 hours a day.

Not even my breed and there are very poor examples being bred indiscriminately by people who have no idea what they're doing, selling to people who have no idea what they're taking on.


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## conniegirl (13 September 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			a two year old dumped by a man on his ex who has to leave the dog 7 hours a day.
		
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This one is understandable why she wants to rehome, the ex is the problem not her.

The dog that attacked daisy last year has not been seen in months. I suspect it has been rehomed or worse! It was very easy to see that it was a lockdown dog bought by first time owners, black spaniel type that was overexcited, hauling them all over the place and when it went after daisy it was apparently my fault that they couldn’t control thier dog. 

So I had to break up a dog fight whilst visibly pregnant, stopping my other dog from joining in (he will go to daisys defence) and being screeched at by a mad woman about how they were going to call the police! Its a good thing my dogs can be controlled and that i had thick leather country boots on!
Daisy has unfortunately been a little reactive since then though we have been working with other prelockdown local dog owners to get her feeling safe again.


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## Pearlsasinger (13 September 2021)

It seems that the prices of pupppies are coming down and I have noticed that people seem to be having over-priced litters left.  Sadly there are some 'lockdown pups' which are older now, 'for sale through no fault of his/her own', perhaps becasue no-one thought through what would happen when things got back to nearer normal.


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## CorvusCorax (13 September 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			It seems that the prices of pupppies are coming down and I have noticed that people seem to be having over-priced litters left.  Sadly there are some 'lockdown pups' which are older now, 'for sale through no fault of his/her own', perhaps becasue no-one thought through what would happen when things got back to nearer normal.
		
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I know someone with six 10 week old GSD puppies still priced at 1k. They're 'OK' breeding (being charitable here), male has a basic qualification and health tests, don't really know anything about the female. Two litters of high showline breeding, generations of health tests also not selling. And then we had that ad last night for three crossbreds at 1800k, 'deposit secures'. Not, like, a good home or anything.....

FWIW an ex's dog will end their days with me or I will see to it that they get an excellent home. If a dog has been in my life and the other person can no longer look after it, I will try my best to help, not try and get it out the door ASAP/tomorrow to an unknown fate, especially a breed like that.


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## PurBee (13 September 2021)

Mankind desperately needs to learn “Just because we can, doesn’t mean we should” 
- especially when it comes to dna/breeding - those pics you posted of those poor dogs - it should be illegal to breed such a thing.

Making money from animals + novelty factor = highly immoral breeding. We’ve got laws dictating intricacies of our lives, yet laws are barren when it comes to animal breeding. 🤷‍♀️


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## bonny (13 September 2021)

PurBee said:



			Mankind desperately needs to learn “Just because we can, doesn’t mean we should”
- especially when it comes to dna/breeding - those pics you posted of those poor dogs - it should be illegal to breed such a thing.

Making money from animals + novelty factor = highly immoral breeding. We’ve got laws dictating intricacies of our lives, yet laws are barren when it comes to animal breeding. 🤷‍♀️
		
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The problem is dogs like in those awful photos are highly sort after and worth thousands of pounds.


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## TPO (13 September 2021)

I know a couple with 3 cocker females and 1 dog. I don't know if they are KC registered but doubt all of the litters can be because they are back to back  breeding the females.

They have never shown, trained or competed their breeding dogs in any sphere so not performance dogs.

They are an older (late 60s) "respectable" couple in a nice country house but essentially they are just puppy farmers.

Just had 11 pups from one litter and they are 2k each.

They had multiple litters through lockdown too and their place was going like a thoroughfare


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## Pearlsasinger (13 September 2021)

We were only saying yesterday that the Kennel Club could do a lot more to improve breeding in the UK.  Every pup that is KC reg should have parents that have been tested for everything that their parents are likely to have passed on to them, if thetests haven't been done, nomatter how good the breeding looks to be on the passport, the pups shouldn't be eligible to be registered.  I know that wouldn't stop all dodgy breeding (Cockerppo's etc) but it would help.  I was talking to someone looking for a pup who thought that if they were KC reg and 'vet health tested' that meant that the DNA, hip/eye, etc tests had been done.
The Lab pups that were £2,500 have been reduced by about £300 and they still have 6 left.  There were plenty around at about £1k which I think is much more realistic.  Our 2 yr olds cost us £800 each as pre-Covid pups.


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## PurBee (13 September 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			I know someone with six 10 week old GSD puppies still priced at 1k. They're 'OK' breeding (being charitable here), male has a basic qualification and health tests, don't really know anything about the female. Two litters of high showline breeding, generations of health tests also not selling. And then we had that ad last night for three crossbreds at 1800k, 'deposit secures'. Not, like, a good home or anything.....

FWIW an ex's dog will end their days with me or I will see to it that they get an excellent home. If a dog has been in my life and the other person can no longer look after it, I will try my best to help, not try and get it out the door ASAP/tomorrow to an unknown fate, especially a breed like that.
		
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My brother’s dog had been used to a rural active life with him for 7yrs - he then moved, got a gf and dog has ‘to go’ apparently due to new rental not accepting dogs (that turned out to be an untruth as he got another dog a while later at that rental). So i felt sorry for the dog going to a dog pound (returned to the charity he got him from) to probably be re-homed in surburban home, and offered him a home here on my farm. Dog was rapidly dumped on me without bed, food, lead etc - yet still, he’s now 17yrs old, this may be his last summer (he keeps bouncing back to vigorous life!) but he’s had a suitable home and therefore long active happy life for his breed and prior life conditioning.

I know someone who got a husky, and have struggled with it since it was a pup due to lack of time and right environment. Its a nightmare for them to take anywhere. Wont re-home despite it being obvious its needs arent being met.

Sadly, many dont realise the level of commitment animals require of us - thinking theyre like a toy that can be put in a box when not wanted for a walkabout, hug and fuss.


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## PurBee (13 September 2021)

bonny said:



			The problem is dogs like in those awful photos are highly sort after and worth thousands of pounds.
		
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Unfortunately, they’re seen as some kind of status symbol aren’t they?


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## coblets (13 September 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			It seems that the prices of pupppies are coming down and I have noticed that people seem to be having over-priced litters left.  Sadly there are some 'lockdown pups' which are older now, 'for sale through no fault of his/her own', perhaps becasue no-one thought through what would happen when things got back to nearer normal.
		
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I've seen a real increase in dogs around 8 months to a year old now being sold due to work commitments. I'm glad that people have recognised that their usual working hours aren't suitable for a dog but why did they have no foresight when they bought it?


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## skinnydipper (13 September 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			I was asked to help rehome two Malinois in the space of five days. A 10 month old slated to be PTS because his owner stuck his hand into the middle of a scrap with a smaller dog and his missus demanded it be euthanised 🙄 and a two year old dumped by a man on his ex who has to leave the dog 7 hours a day.

Not even my breed and there are very poor examples being bred indiscriminately by people who have no idea what they're doing, selling to people who have no idea what they're taking on.
		
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I've seen a number of GSDs, Mals, Dutch Herders up for rehoming, private and rescue organisations.

Original owner unable to fulfil dog's needs. No manners/boundaries. Training required.  Needs an active/working home.  Okay with other dogs after careful introduction - we all know what that's a euphemism for .  Likely to kill cats.

I doubt people are queuing up to take them on. (aside from cat killing it wouldn't put me off but thank goodness big dog fills the available space in our vehicle  so I can't be tempted ).


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (13 September 2021)

bonny said:



			The problem is dogs like in those awful photos are highly sort after and worth thousands of pounds.
		
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They really are, and it stuns me. Really that animal is hardly even recognisable as a dog and it's a status symbol worth £1000's. 



Pearlsasinger said:



			We were only saying yesterday that the Kennel Club could do a lot more to improve breeding in the UK.
		
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I completely agree. You see the sh*te that comes through the showing circles under KC, especially those in America (not sure if still under KC, I'm not clued up on things over there) I have lost all faith in their accrediation also. Yes, health testing etc is a good thing to have to do, but their breed standards seem to change in line with the extremes which are being bred. The responsible thing for them to do would be to update the breed standard for Frenchies to having a long snout which allows them to breathe and so on and so forth. Having a dog win a prestigious dog show that can't even regulate it's own body temperature for long enough to have a photo with the trophy - just madness. (A pekinese) 

People should have to be licensed to breed a dog, and owners should have to register to the licensing body to buy it. People should also have to undergo courses etc if they are to own a high drive dog like a Malinoise or a Cane Corso. All dogs should be banned from having cropped ears, rescues or otherwise (there are enough UK dog that need homes without importing 'rescues' from other countries, usually ill and untested - but that's another rant). If your cropped dog is going to be confiscated then you would think twice about importing it from a Romanian breeer to get around the laws.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (13 September 2021)

coblets said:



			I've seen a real increase in dogs around 8 months to a year old now being sold due to work commitments. I'm glad that people have recognised that their usual working hours aren't suitable for a dog but why did they have no foresight when they bought it?
		
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Unfortunately isn't not even foresight, it's selfishness. I want it so I'll get it. It's how the world is set up, you want something you can't afford? Finance. You want an animal and then change your mind? Chuck it in a rescue. You cant afford your living standard? Credit Cards.  The world has changed and immediacy without regulation is the new normal, and scarily this is now extending to animals.


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## Errin Paddywack (13 September 2021)

A friend of mine was telling me about someone in the village who bred a litter of Cockerpoos.  No idea if any health checks done.  She sold them for £3k each.  Totally mad but with prices like that you can see why people do it.  Thankfully prices are noticeably dropping so fingers crossed things will start to improve.  Just so sorry for all the indiscriminate pups already bred who will have health problems and/or poor homes.


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## PurBee (13 September 2021)

skinnydipper said:



			I've seen a number of GSDs, Mals, Dutch Herders up for rehoming, private and rescue organisations.

Original owner unable to fulfil dog's needs. No manners/boundaries. Training required.  Needs an active/working home.  Okay with other dogs after careful introduction - we all know what that's a euphemism for .  Likely to kill cats.

I doubt people are queuing up to take them on. (aside from cat killing it wouldn't put me off but thank goodness big dog fills the available space in our vehicle  so I can't be tempted ).
		
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Youre right - so many ads fit that description. Sometimes a challenge to re-train bad early conditioning, quite a job to take on.

My brother’s dog, upon literally getting out of his car here, immediately chased one of my 3 cats out the house
”oh brother, you could have told me he chases everything and i would have made sure cats were sectioned off” (he knew i had cats)
He told me dog trained, comes when called etc etc….the reality was somewhat different!

Now the cats sleep with that dog…but it was quite the journey getting that dog ‘trained’.


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## blackcob (13 September 2021)

My dog pandemic gripe is that I'm finding walks stressful when you have to second guess other dog owners all the time, and I don't know if it's the increasing numbers, lockdown puppies hitting adolescence or that people just don't give a damn about how their dog's behaviour impacts on others. 

Is that enormous dog bounding up and ignoring its owner's call going to knock my old girl off her feet, am I going to get bitten if I hold the collar of the dog who is currently climbing my leg trying to get in my treat pocket while my dog is on the cusp of exploding on the lead behind me, should I say something to the man who has just hit it now he's got it back, is that dog who's been hupped into a sit on the verge going to break its stay and splat my dog like it did the last time we met it...


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## SAujla (13 September 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			I know someone with six 10 week old GSD puppies still priced at 1k. They're 'OK' breeding (being charitable here), male has a basic qualification and health tests, don't really know anything about the female. Two litters of high showline breeding, generations of health tests also not selling. And then we had that ad last night for three crossbreds at 1800k, 'deposit secures'. Not, like, a good home or anything.....

FWIW an ex's dog will end their days with me or I will see to it that they get an excellent home. If a dog has been in my life and the other person can no longer look after it, I will try my best to help, not try and get it out the door ASAP/tomorrow to an unknown fate, especially a breed like that.
		
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Genuinely wondering what will the breeder do if they can't sell them? Multiple 10 week old puppies don't strike me as being easy to deal with no matter the breed


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## CorvusCorax (13 September 2021)

SAujla said:



			Genuinely wondering what will the breeder do if they can't sell them? Multiple 10 week old puppies don't strike me as being easy to deal with no matter the breed
		
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Get all their trouser legs eaten, by the sounds of it.

There is another guy who prices his way too high, can't sell, then ships them in twos and threes off to the USA where they become 'lAw eNforCemEnt k9s'. One of the purchasers is quite well known for his company/handlers setting dogs on indigenous people protesting pipelines through their sacred lands. Nice.


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## SAujla (13 September 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			Get all their trouser legs eaten, by the sounds of it.

There is another guy who prices his way too high, can't sell, then ships them in twos and threes off to the USA where they become 'lAw eNforCemEnt k9s'. One of the purchasers is quite well known for his company/handlers setting dogs on indigenous people protesting pipelines through their sacred lands. Nice.
		
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That all sounds very bleak. Poor pups. 

The combination of people going back to work and the lockdown puppies hitting adolescence is is a rough one. I think many owners don't even know adolescence is a thing with dogs, I will admit I didn't until I did research.


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## meleeka (13 September 2021)

a friend keeps ‘accidentally’ breeding his bitch, because he’s a too lazy to have her or the dog neutered.  He has no trouble selling puppies for £500.  Neither of the parents have ever been near a vets, let alone the puppies.


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## Karran (13 September 2021)

we have dogs like the pics in my local parks. They remind me of my tortoise in build and shape as they scrabble along. All very strange colours and cropped ears. I also know of a cane corso being mated with a boxer which i'm not 100% convinced about!


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (13 September 2021)

meleeka said:



			a friend keeps ‘accidentally’ breeding his bitch, because he’s a too lazy to have her or the dog neutered.  He has no trouble selling puppies for £500.  Neither of the parents have ever been near a vets, let alone the puppies.
		
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God, that's depressing - he sounds like a moron. But where there's a market there will be supply.. 

A boxer and a Cane Corso is very odd.. I know what you mean about the turtles though! That's exactly it.


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## DressageCob (13 September 2021)

It's awful. I'm seeing more and more dogs with cropped ears. Either it is being done illegally in the UK or they are being imported. People don't seem to care either way. 

Then you have the atrocious frog dogs, the exotic bullies who look like footstools and breathe like an 80 year old smoker with COPD. 

Then you have the people willing to spend thousands on "designer cross breeds" which do nothing to improve either source breed, no health testing, no regulation and no real care about anything but profit. Everywhere you turn there is another cockerpoo or labradoodle or golden doodle. Now you have all the other doodles which are increasing in popularity, particularly the giant ones like Bernedoodles and St Bernadoodles. I don't understand the hype and I really think it needs regulating some way. Seeing the same people breeding dogs again and again, from the same bitches, is just depressing.

I'd love it to be you have to have a licence and pass exams to breed dogs. That should stop all the pet people saying "Bella is such a nice girl she just needs to have puppies" or "Luna really wants to be a mum".


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## millikins (13 September 2021)

I'm torn, I think it's extremely sad when we lose breeds whether that is dogs or rare breed livestock but surely to some extent it's an evolution of the job the animal is required to do fitting with modern human lifestyle? I rather like cockerpoos, a bit scatty but small, friendly less shedding family dogs are in demand. I adore rottie crosses, I'm on my third. When looking I tried rescues, the usual issues with them, and then preloved. That was depressing, so many large, ill mannered animals some even admitting they were being rehomed because they'd bitten. I'm not risking something that size with no respect for humans so ended up with a Cyprus rescue who is an absolute delight.
I think we have a problem in this country with an inability to raise animals or children with any manners, not all obviously but a significant number.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (13 September 2021)

millikins said:



			I'm torn, I think it's extremely sad when we lose breeds whether that is dogs or rare breed livestock but surely to some extent it's an evolution of the job the animal is required to do fitting with modern human lifestyle? I rather like cockerpoos, a bit scatty but small, friendly less shedding family dogs are in demand. I adore rottie crosses, I'm on my third. When looking I tried rescues, the usual issues with them, and then preloved. That was depressing, so many large, ill mannered animals some even admitting they were being rehomed because they'd bitten. I'm not risking something that size with no respect for humans so ended up with a Cyprus rescue who is an absolute delight.
I think we have a problem in this country with an inability to raise animals or children with any manners, not all obviously but a significant number.
		
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You're thinking of the more positive (albeit completely unneccesary imo) example of current day breeding. What jobs have we bred dogs that look like this to do...?  And they are all examples that many posters will see regularly out and about, I know I do.

Playing devils advocate: you liked your Rottie crosses, I love Rotties too, but why would you cross a breed with so many health issues with another breed indescriminately. At best you may breed some health issues out, at worst you get a cross with health issues from both sides.  

I also think that you risk getting a dog from Cyprus with the same issues as UK rescues, but that obviously depends on the quality of rescue you deal with. I know a few foreign rescues who have/could have been down right dangerous through fear, not to mention other mental ill effects of years on the streets


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## CorvusCorax (13 September 2021)

All the dachshunds I see out and about are very robust little dogs. They still do working tests/send them down holes in Germany but I guess that it unpalatable for a lot of people, the working wirehairs are smashing. What happens when what they are bred for becomes obsolete? Should the breed die out too? That would mean a lot of the native British breeds.

There are a lot of cockerpoos with resource guarding issues and extreme environmental sensitivities, which are not at all ideal in a busy family home.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (13 September 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			All the dachshunds I see out and about are very robust little dogs. They still do working tests/send them down holes in Germany but I guess that it unpalatable for a lot of people, the working wirehairs are smashing. What happens when what they are bred for becomes obsolete? Should the breed die out too?
		
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I think it's a very fine line though, I have included the one I have above as it's chest is maybe an inch of the floor which to me just is wrong. If a dog is scuppered by a 20cm step then is it a useful dog? It certainly wouldn't make it down a hole of any description... I also think the trend now is to breed them as long as possible, whcih again just results in spinal issues.   The useful, good example of the breed are being pushed out by the low, long and crooked legged versions that are now ten a penny.

I do love the wirehairs though, they're great little dogs.


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## Penny Less (13 September 2021)

Im amazed all these people can afford to these dogs at such inflated prices. Mind you I suppose the annual holiday abroad couldnt be had so saving money there.   But they then put them into rescue (those that are resold) and thereby lose £2-3K.


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## Amymay (13 September 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			There are a lot of cockerpoos with resource guarding issues and extreme environmental sensitivities, which are not at all ideal in a busy family home.
		
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I’ve met a lot of cockerpoos, and they’ve all been delightful, wonderful family dogs.  I’m quite a fan actually.


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## CorvusCorax (13 September 2021)

Amymay said:



			I’ve met a lot of cockerpoos, and they’ve all been delightful, wonderful family dogs.  I’m quite a fan actually.
		
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Not my experience at all, unfortunately.


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## Penny Less (13 September 2021)

Penny Less said:



			Im amazed all these people can afford to these dogs at such inflated prices. Mind you I suppose the annual holiday abroad couldnt be had so saving money there.   But they then put them into rescue (those that are resold) and thereby lose £2-3K.
		
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ETA   that should say those who arent resold


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## Pearlsasinger (13 September 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			Not my experience at all, unfortunately.
		
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Nor mine!

There seems to be an absolute rash of them round here, not sure if theyare all from the same breeder but they certainly aren't all the same age.  They are almost all badly behaved, or their owners are useless, or both.

I wouldn't have one given!


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## TPO (13 September 2021)

Under ten in total so not a great sample but the cocker and malti poos that my friends own are all lovely dogs.

It pains me to say that because I'm really against these designer mongrels


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## TPO (13 September 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Nor mine!

There seems to be an absolute rash of them round here, not sure if theyare all from the same breeder but they certainly aren't all the same age.  They are almost all badly behaved, or their owners are useless, or both.

I wouldn't have one given!
		
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They do seem to appeal to first time owners plus ring craft/puppy classes were all stopped during lockdown. So people with good intentions didn't always manage to follow through with their training plans.

Not that any of that is an excuse for bad mannered and untrained dogs.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (13 September 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Nor mine!

There seems to be an absolute rash of them round here, not sure if theyare all from the same breeder but they certainly aren't all the same age.  They are almost all badly behaved, or their owners are useless, or both.

I wouldn't have one given!
		
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Mine neither. I did always wonder how a poodle, which can be high drive, very large, high exercise requirement, emotionally sensitive and prone to nuisance barking - not to mention the health issues and coat maintenance, suddently became the best dog to cross for all family dog requirements.. but some people seem to love them and I have met a couple of nice ones, albeit they were in the minority ime.


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## MotherOfChickens (13 September 2021)

Amymay said:



			I’ve met a lot of cockerpoos, and they’ve all been delightful, wonderful family dogs.  I’m quite a fan actually.
		
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I only know a few, they are all very cute lively, friendly dogs. They all have high grooming costs and severe separation anxiety.


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## KittenInTheTree (13 September 2021)

An automatic ten year prison sentence for anyone who turns a profit from breeding a litter might thin the number of breeders.


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## sportsmansB (13 September 2021)

A friend of my mums in her 70's recently got a mini schnauzer - well, its about a year old now. 
This lady's last dog was a behavioural nightmare, but this one was smaller and cuter so seemingly they thought it would work. 
They have had it for a year now, of that it has spent 3 months in residential training with a behaviourist and a further 4 months at weekly sessions
they still cannot walk it sensibly on a lead in a park, and it jumped up 15 times on my mums visit yesterday (my stepdad counted, he's not a fan) - my mum growled at it in her doctor / teacher voice and it didn't jump on her again, but the owner's corrections were not heeded at all. 

They cannot walk the dog enough to tire it out as it is so badly behaved on the lead, so its a vicious circle... 
My collie pup rescued 4 weeks ago on the other hand got 5 stars for behaviour at dinner. He has learned to sit, lie down, not jump up, walk on a lead and come when he is called in that time, having made it to 6 months without any of those skills from his lock down purchasers...


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## TPO (13 September 2021)

KittenInTheTree said:



			An automatic ten year prison sentence for anyone who turns a profit from breeding a litter might thin the number of breeders.
		
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Any litter of any breed????


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## Penny Less (13 September 2021)

Every other dog here seems to be a cockerpoo or a poo cross of some kind. Where are the poodles though that have bred these dogs, I cant remember the last time I saw one, I suppose theyre all too busy having frantic sex to be out doors!


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## CorvusCorax (13 September 2021)

Poodles can be smashing dogs in their own right, it's a pity they get thrown together with so many other unsuitable breeds for the 50/50 chance of having 'non-shedding' or 'teddy bear' pups.


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## DressageCob (13 September 2021)

I'm yet to meet a cockerpoo that wasn't a neurotic mess to be honest. Maybe that says more about the people who buy them than the cross itself, I don't know. Severe separation anxiety, resource guarding, yapping, inappropriate responses to canine interaction. Plus the heavily matted coats because people think either they don't need grooming or they just need a once over with a soft brush.

I'm not a poodle fan but they are definitely done a disservice by mixing them into whatever breed takes someone's fancy. They are intelligent, working dogs, but I can see how that intelligence and drive causes problems when mixed with a breed with either a completely different nature, or worse, a dog that is not physically capable of activity, sports or anything capable of meeting the brain's needs.


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## deb_l222 (13 September 2021)

Amymay said:



			I’ve met a lot of cockerpoos, and they’ve all been delightful, wonderful family dogs.  I’m quite a fan actually.
		
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I've recently been offered a labradoodle and she's fabulous.  As it happens she's staying put for the time being and my friend is attempting to sort out the issues between her two dogs accepting the new one.  All the cockerpoos I've met have also been lovely, if a little skittish but that's possibly because Willow freaks them out!!

While ever there is customer demand for these 'designer' breeds, there will be plenty of unscrupulous 'greeders' to breed them.  I do however think we have reached a peak in prices now and these will start to come down.  There are definitely more dogs starting to appear in rescues as lockdown measures ease and normality returns.  Who will re-home these dogs though is anyone's guess??


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## fankino04 (13 September 2021)

I think I'm a bit biased against cockerpoos as the FILs is so annoying (probably his fault a bit but the issues do seem common to the breed), can't be left, is terrified of most things, severely needy for constant attention etc, I think it annoys me most because when they visit they have to bring him but because he was scared of our dog she had to be shut away so he could be with everyone and be happy 😡😡😡. I did hear but not sure if true that the reason their coats are so bad for matting is that the cocker coat sheds but gets trapped under the non shedding poodle coat, those mats must be uncomfortable so if this is true it's cruel breeding these dogs to have these issues.


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## paisley (13 September 2021)

blackcob said:



			My dog pandemic gripe is that I'm finding walks stressful when you have to second guess other dog owners all the time, and I don't know if it's the increasing numbers, lockdown puppies hitting adolescence or that people just don't give a damn about how their dog's behaviour impacts on others.

Is that enormous dog bounding up and ignoring its owner's call going to knock my old girl off her feet, am I going to get bitten if I hold the collar of the dog who is currently climbing my leg trying to get in my treat pocket while my dog is on the cusp of exploding on the lead behind me, should I say something to the man who has just hit it now he's got it back, is that dog who's been hupped into a sit on the verge going to break its stay and splat my dog like it did the last time we met it...
		
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Oh, I don't know its all bad- I mean I now get up at stupid oclock to walk the whippet and avoid all the eejits you describe so I'm getting tons of other stuff done 😜.  Does mean I'm ready for bed about now, but there you go. 

My whinge is all the lockdown puppies have made renting with a pet go from tricky to blood- with- a- y impossible. And the Pet Protection Bill is almost useless- there are suddenly record numbers of landlords with severe allergies 🙄, one of the few clauses that permits them to outright refuse animals


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## coblets (13 September 2021)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			Playing devils advocate: you liked your Rottie crosses, I love Rotties too, but why would you cross a breed with so many health issues with another breed indescriminately. At best you may breed some health issues out, at worst you get a cross with health issues from both sides.
		
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I suppose it depends on what you’re crossing it with. But tbf I’d rather have a rottie cross than a rottie bred from show lines - hybrid vigour and all that. 



CorvusCorax said:



			All the dachshunds I see out and about are very robust little dogs. They still do working tests/send them down holes in Germany but I guess that it unpalatable for a lot of people
		
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Fair enough if they’re still working in Germany but doesn’t their conformation lend itself to back problems? Plus they seem to one of many ‘toy breeds’ like Pomis or Chihuahuas which are getting bred to be ridiculously small. Some videos on YouTube…


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## UniqueAkkount (13 September 2021)

*deleted*

most of the problem is armchair “experts” with absolutely no idea….. 😳😳😳


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## CorvusCorax (13 September 2021)

What do you mean by hybrid vigour though?? A few people I know work and show their Rotts along European lines and they are fab dogs. 

Their conformation lends them to go down small holes after quarry. Their name is literally badger dog.
It's the pet market (smaller, cuter, no drive) which is causing a lot of the problems.


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## TPO (13 September 2021)

UniqueAkkount said:



			*deleted*

most of the problem is armchair “experts” with absolutely no idea….. 😳😳😳
		
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Who are the armchair experts in your opinion?

The majority of people posting on this thread are very experienced across numerous breeds and different disciplines. 

I strongly doubt the uniqueness of your account


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## Meowy Catkin (13 September 2021)

coblets said:



			I suppose it depends on what you’re crossing it with. But tbf I’d rather have a rottie cross than a rottie bred from show lines - hybrid vigour and all that.
		
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That wouldn't be a hybrid though, it would just be a crossbreed dog so no hybrid vigour. Wolf x dog would be hybrid biologically speaking as you need different species within the same genus. The other issue with breeding hybrid animals is that you can get a different result depending on which species is the sire and which is the dam. Think of Mules V Hinnies or Tygons V Ligers.


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## UniqueAkkount (13 September 2021)

TPO said:



			Who are the armchair experts in your opinion?

The majority of people posting on this thread are very experienced across numerous breeds and different disciplines.

I strongly doubt the uniqueness of your account
		
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well shit award you a CSI badge immediately 🤣🤣🤣


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## millikins (13 September 2021)

Do you think Herr Dobermann was vilified when he created his crossbreed to do a job which was needed at the time? 
I think there's a mix of issues here, do we need to adapt historic breeds for a modern purpose? How to prevent indiscriminate breeding especially of poor quality stock and the general level of dud dog ownership so often on display.


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## CorvusCorax (13 September 2021)

And we need new breeds for what, exactly? There's plenty out there to choose from. What purpose? Hunting and many dog sports/training/activities are being eroded on all sides by AR lobbying.


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## splashgirl45 (13 September 2021)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I only know a few, they are all very cute lively, friendly dogs. They all have high grooming costs and severe separation anxiety.
		
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so nice to see you back with your proper name ,well done for getting it sorted

these poo crosses are hard work even for experienced owners so first timers are struggling as they dont know what they are doing and the ones in my area are mostly nervous, dog aggressive and never get let off the lead as they wont come back. my friends dog groomer has recently taken on 2 cavapoos as the owner couldnt cope, she is trying to rehome them by word of mouth through her clients and i was asked if i would like one..    guess what my answer was


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## ellieb (13 September 2021)

Those 'pocket bullies' are absolutely awful to look at, their poor, weird, square bodies! They don't even look like dogs anymore.


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## MinKo (13 September 2021)

Um I have a


Parrotperson said:



			oh agree. its terrible. Yesterday I meet someone who out of pity had rescued (bless them I wouldn't have) a yorkie poodle cross. I mean why breed that? I mean I know why but. 🤬
		
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Um, I have a yorkie X poodle!! She's 9yo and not a health issue ever! Apart from a recent infection in a bite she got trying to catch a rat! She's tiny and perfect and my vet said she is the perfect little dog. Her re call is perfect, she loves EVERYONE and never causes any problems


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## Pearlsasinger (13 September 2021)

My aunt had several poodles that were  retired from breeding (all from the same breeder), they were clever little dogs.  My neighbour is an expereinced dog owner, her family used to have a bearded collie, which was  perfectly nice, confident, well-mannerd dog.  She now has a neurotic cockerpoo, I am tempted to think that it is the dog's breeding rather than its owner's ignorance which is the cause of its neurotic behaviour.


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## Arzada (13 September 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			my friends dog groomer has recently taken on 2 cavapoos as the owner couldnt cope, she is trying to rehome them by word of mouth through her clients and i was asked if i would like one..    guess what my answer was 

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'One is not enough. I'll take them both'


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## splashgirl45 (13 September 2021)

you have got to be joking !!


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## Arzada (13 September 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



  you have got to be joking !!
		
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No photos?!


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## splashgirl45 (13 September 2021)

i didnt even see a picture of them,  i knew i wouldnt want one or two


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## MinKo (13 September 2021)

Amymay said:



			I’ve met a lot of cockerpoos, and they’ve all been delightful, wonderful family dogs.  I’m quite a fan actually.
		
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Me too! My friend has a cavalier x Jack Russel and he is awesome too. I also know a parsons Russel x Yorkie and he is lovely too, both are keen hunters just like my little one. I also have a shih Tzu x something bigger and he hunts too. Both of mine are from homes where there first owners passed away 😥


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## Crazy_cat_lady (13 September 2021)

I'm not a dog person but I know of one that was acquired during lockdown. It's a daschund and I think is from a rescue but they've had it from a puppy, so presumably born at the rescue. 
It cannot be left alone, they're lucky as they've been allowed to stay wfh but if they have to go somewhere, other people have to look after it. I'd have been laying the groundwork by stating to get it used to being alone even if I was at home all day, as I couldn't be doing with the tie to not just being able to pop out and leave it for a couple of hours
It's snappy too, though randomly, you can stroke it nicely multiple times, then try another and it'll snap. I'm not sure if it would actually bite, but I don't intend to find out

I refuse to allow it in the house, OH couldn't understand my viewpoint, but we have cats including a breed that can't sense danger. I'm not running the risk of it going for them and them potentially not being able to get away as that would devastate me. I also don't see why they should be shut away and scared in their own home because the dog has not been taught to be capable of being left alone. Fortunately the owners rarely visit so it hasn't yet been a problem 

I can't abide badly behaved dogs (or badly behaved horses), ill probably never get a dog but if I did, I'd be researching training methods before getting one and taking it to puppy classes/ socialisation and building up leaving it alone. Maybe there should be the equivalent of BHS stages for dog owners!

I think my aunt had a Cockerpoo who i house sat for once and she seemed quite pleasant and polite


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## mini_b (14 September 2021)

TPO said:



			They do seem to appeal to first time owners
		
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poodles are super smart, right? They are originally an old working breed.
I can’t see how crossing anything with a poodle is suitable for “not doggy folk that want a dog”

…if you understand what I mean?


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## scats (14 September 2021)

Amymay said:



			I’ve met a lot of cockerpoos, and they’ve all been delightful, wonderful family dogs.  I’m quite a fan actually.
		
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Same here.  I probably see more cockapoos than most on here as I have a shed load on my books.  I can think of 1 who springs to mind who is extremely nervous/neurotic and 1 who is aggressive to my dryer!  The rest are actually really lovely dogs and some of my best behaved dogs are cockapoos.  They are just extremely high maintenance, coat wise.

I have more neurotic and ridiculous working cockers if I’m honest.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (14 September 2021)

mini_b said:



			poodles are super smart, right? They are originally an old working breed.
I can’t see how crossing anything with a poodle is suitable for “not doggy folk that want a dog”

…if you understand what I mean?
		
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I had a standard poodle back in the 80s,  she was a fantastic guard dog but sweet natured. V busy when at the yard with me all day too....
I'd not have a x from one tho.
People laughed when they saw her play fighting  (as they do) with my then young GSD and with the rotter. She always came out on top tho.


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## TPO (14 September 2021)

My great Aunt and Uncle had poodles. One was a standard and I can't remember of the other was a miniature or toy.

They lived way down south in Eastbourne and annually my relatives would travel up in their wee campervan with the dogs. They would stay at my grandparents farm and the highlight was going over to play with new dogs! The standard especially was a lovely cuddly boy. They tolerated us fussing and running about with them fine. I've got a feeling that the wee one was maybe a bit nippy when excited because he wasn't allowed to play fetch with us.

My grandparents had a border terrier as well as an outside farm collie. The poodles got on great with kids and dogs.

A friend has a malti-poo as a first dog with young kids and the dog has been perfect. She enjoys the wee girl dressing her up and hops into the toy buggy. 

My mum had Japanese Chins when we were younger and my sister used to dress one up in baby clothes, put her in the toy high chair and push her around in her dolls pram. Tilly (the dog) loved it and would happily play for hours.

It's hard to say X breed for definite because there is so much variation within a breed depending on so many other factors. I guess you can just do your research and find out about certain breeding if you decide on  a pedigree dog or spend time finding a good rescue with robust rehoming procedures in place to match dogs with families


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## Penny Less (14 September 2021)

Will people breed from these crosses, what will they then become ?


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (14 September 2021)

Penny Less said:



			Will people breed from these crosses, what will they then become ?
		
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Oh, they're still cockerpoo's don't you know.. They just now 'come from a great line of cockerpoos'


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## Amymay (14 September 2021)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			Oh, they're still cockerpoo's don't you know.. They just now 'come from a great line of cockerpoos' 

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I have. Bichon Frise, where did she originate from?

Where did a poodle originate from?

Where did any ‘breed’ originate from?

I find the attitude that _all_ crosses should be ridiculed really outdated, and offensive to those who have them.


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## CorvusCorax (14 September 2021)

France, originally.


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## CorvusCorax (14 September 2021)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			Oh, they're still cockerpoo's don't you know.. They just now 'come from a great line of cockerpoos' 

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And if no one is writing any of it down/keeping a note of it, the opportunities for very close inbreeding are huge. Same with anyone breeding back to back from the same two animals every year or twice a year.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (14 September 2021)

Amymay said:



			I find the attitude that _all_ crosses should be ridiculed really outdated, and offensive to those who have them.
		
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I have nothing at all against crosses, I have had a few of them (well, mine were rescue crosses of the truly mongrel variety but my point still stands). I just think they should be bred for a purpose and intentionally rather than any old Tom's dog shagging whichever other happens to have uterus, and be tracked/moderated or governed by someone.
Eg: apply to the Poodle registrar and ask permission to make 'x' cross with 'x' bitch/dog pairing because you are hoping to breed 'x'. Then they can check the medical history, note down the outcome and whether it was successful to reach your original aim.


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## MotherOfChickens (14 September 2021)

Poodles are cracking dogs, my vet breeds Standards and if it wasnt for the grooming, I'd have one in a shot. Dad had a poodle (miniature) called Midge, she was fab although I was only 6 when we had to have her PTS. I personally miss those little black and tan mongrels we used to see everywhere-had my last one of those in the 90s, she looked like lab x terrier with a drop of collie going on her ears (also had a couple as family dogs when growing up, before mum went mad on GSDs). Mongrels are not always healthier or more robust-last one died at 5yo from epilepsy (staffy cross beagle possibly).
I have told OH we will have dachshunds one day-when I can no longer cope with 35kg retriever cuddles.


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## scats (14 September 2021)

Amymay said:



			I have. Bichon Frise, where did she originate from?

Where did a poodle originate from?

Where did any ‘breed’ originate from?

I find the attitude that _all_ crosses should be ridiculed really outdated, and offensive to those who have them.
		
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Agreed, if you look at the history of breeds, they’ve all come about from crossing various breeds together to make a new one.  I’m amazed that a lot of people don’t seem to realise this.

I wonder why it is deemed more acceptable to cross horse breeds but not dogs?


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## DressageCob (14 September 2021)

The main reason why I don't accept that cockerpoos/labradoodles etc are breeds per se is two fold. The first is that they are straight crosses. If you look at established breeds, they aren't just crossing one breed with another and calling it new. There is the influence of any number of breeds or types over decades to create the new dog. Crossing one breed with another is just a crossbreed. 

The main reason though is that there is no consistency. There is no breed standard which is closely followed. There is a massive difference in size and coat type between labradoodles, cockerpoos may be tiny yorkie sized things or the size of a springer. There is no consistency as to temperament either. 

When establishing a breed, the breed traits are selected and then bred for. Breeders don't breed from stock which does not meet the standard for the new breed. With the poos and doodles it is any poodle with any cocker/labrador/retriever/collie/whatever dog happens to be up for it, irrespective of whether they are good examples of their breed or likely to create pups of any specific type. Then they breed poo to poo or doodle to doodle, again irrespective of the quality of the parent dogs (and quality is vague anyway because there is no breed standard). 


I also really resent breeding without health testing, particularly using breeds known to have frequent and serious health issues, like cavaliers.


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## bonny (14 September 2021)

I could well be wrong but I thought cockerpoos etc were a straight cross of two different breeds and shouldn’t be bred with each other ?


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## CorvusCorax (14 September 2021)

scats said:



			Agreed, if you look at the history of breeds, they’ve all come about from crossing various breeds together to make a new one.  I’m amazed that a lot of people don’t seem to realise this.

I wonder why it is deemed more acceptable to cross horse breeds but not dogs?
		
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Lots of people realise it, they just wonder why it still happens deliberately when there are thousands of breeds of all shapes and sizes already.

Because only one tends to come out at a time, they're much harder to use as a money-making enterprise and you less often get two completely unsuitable breeds crossed deliberately.


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## only_me (14 September 2021)

Anyone want a “goberian”

https://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/goberian-golden-retriever-husky-husky-puppies-for-sale-/1409824217

i will admit the white one looks like will be super fluffy lol.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (14 September 2021)

only_me said:



			Anyone want a “goberian”

https://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/goberian-golden-retriever-husky-husky-puppies-for-sale-/1409824217

i will admit the white one looks like will be super fluffy lol.
		
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How to make a family dog difficult 🤣   They are super cute though!

I'll raise you a Daniff
https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/121038976/great-dane-cross-mastiff-also-known-as-daniff.html?link=/search?keyword=cane+corso+cross

Or how about a Weimarott?
https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/121051027/weimaraner-x-rottweiler-stunning-weimarott-puppies.html?link=/search?keyword=rottweiler+cross

I did come across this guy earlier who, if I was in a position to, I would collect in a heartbeat - GSD x Cane Corse. Completely unecessary and probably difficult, but look at that face! 
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/rehoming/dogs/dog/filters/~~~~~n~~/1248970/blue


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## Cinnamontoast (14 September 2021)

Parrotperson said:



			oh agree. its terrible. Yesterday I meet someone who out of pity had rescued (bless them I wouldn't have) a yorkie poodle cross. I mean why breed that? I mean I know why but. 🤬
		
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I know someone who got a lockdown yorkiepoo. Bloody thing yaps endlessly.

Re poo crosses, it’s a trend, so prices are sky high pretty constantly and everyone wants one cos it’s a trend. There’s lots of snobbery around eg cockerpoos, mainly partly due to the idiot back yard breeders who’ve jumped on the bandwagon and breed back to back litters with no idea about health tests.


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## Amymay (14 September 2021)

Parrotperson said:



			oh agree. its terrible. Yesterday I meet someone who out of pity had rescued (bless them I wouldn't have) a yorkie poodle cross. I mean why breed that? I mean I know why but. 🤬
		
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Why wouldn’t you have?

Isn’t the relevant word here ‘rescued’?


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## [139672] (14 September 2021)

I admit when I was looking into getting a dog 9 years ago, I considered a Cockerpoo.  I did lots of research and found out that not all are non or low shedding, some quite small, some big and some look totally different (as lots of poodle crosses can). I saw a pop star on tv with a lovely dog. He was a toy poodle. Because I wanted a non or low shedding dog I bought a toy poodle. He is a little treasure. He has quirks but he is easy to train, compared to a lot of breeds and great fun. His coat takes time. I clip him myself but I figured having spent many hours during my life grooming horses, grooming a small dog would be manageable. 
I clip him with a puppy clip/cockerpoo type cut and a lot of people ask if he’s a Cockerpoo.  I’ve met people with Cockerpoo saying how lovely he is and I think they could have just bought a poodle instead 🙄
A friend bought a jackapoo. He sheds hair everywhere, like a JRT and looks like a small, chunky JRT. I do wonder if he really is a jackapoo!?


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## Parrotperson (15 September 2021)

Amymay said:



			Why wouldn’t you have?

Isn’t the relevant word here ‘rescued’?
		
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honestly  probably not. because I'm a bit too old now for those kinds of problems. But I would've helped re-home if asked yes of course.


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## skinnydipper (15 September 2021)

I have met two delightful Yorkie x poodle pups who live locally.

I feel very sorry for one of the pups and her family.

First time dog owners.

Pup has severe hip dysplasia requiring femoral head and neck excision.

Certainly takes the shine off what should be an exciting, happy time for them.


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## scats (15 September 2021)

All my dogs are crossbreeds. I have a Great Dane X Husky, who I got from a rescue at 4 months. She’s the most fantastic dog- is now 12, fit as fiddle and has the most incredible temperament- loyal and kind. 
Bess is a Corgi x Cockapoo, weird mix but an absolute treasure of a dog who is loyal, funny, fit and healthy.  Her temperament is second to none and she’s intelligent, trainable and so loving.
Lily-Rose is a Shihtzu x JR. I love that the JR influence has elongated her nose so she doesn’t have the associated problems of a brachy dog.
I don’t call them by designer names, simply the cross they are.  But they are fabulous dogs.
 I wonder if people just called them cocker crosses, would people feel less strongly about it? I almost wonder if the connotations of ‘cockapoo’ now brings almost instant negativity, particularly to those who are very pro purebreds.


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## blackcob (15 September 2021)

There is absolutely a place for particularly small/medium sized dogs, with cute curly teddy bear appearance, of low to moderate exercise and grooming needs, with temperaments that make them suitable for family life, and of robust health and ethical breeding, but I really don't believe this is what most breeders of crossbreeds are producing. More along the lines of the upthread 'anything with reproductive organs goes'. 

Combine it with the naivety of some of the owners who seek out these breeds; again upthread, 'none doggy folk who want a dog', they're sold on the idea of a dog but not always the reality, and might not have any of the knowledge or support needed to make an informed choice. The combination does make for some huffing and eyerolling from those 'in' dogs, especially where they're involved in picking up the pieces (training, rehoming, veterinary care...) 

Twas ever thus with fads of popular breeds but pre social media and pre culture of immediacy those waves were a lot smaller.


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## MotherOfChickens (15 September 2021)

scats said:



			I wonder why it is deemed more acceptable to cross horse breeds but not dogs?
		
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don't see much point in that either. I mean, before WBs took over you had ID x TB and anglos, got the point of those.

But (and I will upset folk with this) why cross (for example) an Iberian with a WB? They are two very different animals, you either want one type or the other surely and if you want something thats middling at extension or collection, there are breeds that do that too.

There are (or maybe were) breeds of horses and ponies for every job that your leisure rider could want-before people  wanted something to ride in an arena day in day out and thought that they needed something else for that.

And to be honest, this does happen in horses-Belwade I believe have just rescued 100 poorly bred cross bred colts. No doubt they will all go on to be useful companion horses.


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## MinKo (15 September 2021)

Parrotperson said:



			honestly  probably not. because I'm a bit too old now for those kinds of problems. But I would've helped re-home if asked yes of course.
		
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What problems are you insinuating these dogs have? I have one and know of four others all have better health than any pure breed dog I know


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## skinnydipper (15 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			What problems are you insinuating these dogs have? I have one and know of four others all have better health than any pure breed dog I know
		
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Well, I am not insinuating - I am telling you straight - I met a Yorkiepoo with severe hip dysplasia - see my post above.

First time owners who are devastated at the diagnosis.

Please don't start with that crap about cross breeds and mongrels being healthier.



skinnydipper said:



			I had a mutt with numerous health issues including grand mal epilepsy and multiple allergies.  She had other health problems I won't bore you with. She dispelled any myths regarding hybrid vigour.
		
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ETA.  TBH any owner would be devastated to receive that diagnosis for their new puppy but perhaps a more experienced person, when buying from a breeder, would have asked to see the results of the dam and sire's screening tests.


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## MinKo (15 September 2021)

skinnydipper said:



			Well, I am not insinuating - I am telling you straight - I met a Yorkiepoo with severe hip dysplasia - see my post above.

First time owners who are devastated at the diagnosis.

Please don't start with that crap about cross breeds and mongrels being healthier.
		
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One cross breed dog with issues does not mean all will have, you are trying to sound like an authority on the matter. You are very much not. You met ONE Yorkie X poodle with a health issue, therefore you are out to tell the world all will have them. Not remotely true.


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## bonny (15 September 2021)

skinnydipper said:



			Well, I am not insinuating - I am telling you straight - I met a Yorkiepoo with severe hip dysplasia - see my post above.

First time owners who are devastated at the diagnosis.

Please don't start with that crap about cross breeds and mongrels being healthier.
		
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I’m not sure that knowing one dog with dodgy hips is significant of anything, anymore than someone else saying their cross  breed lived to be 18 and never suffered with anything.


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## skinnydipper (15 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			One cross breed dog with issues does not mean all will have, you are trying to sound like an authority on the matter. You are very much not. You met ONE Yorkie X poodle with a health issue, therefore you are out to tell the world all will have them. Not remotely true.
		
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You seem familiar.  Do you go by other user names such as BaronSamedi, BMWKIPP or Five&Two?


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## skinnydipper (15 September 2021)

skinnydipper said:



			ETA. TBH any owner would be devastated to receive that diagnosis for their new puppy but perhaps a more experienced person, when buying from a breeder, would have asked to see the results of the dam and sire's screening tests.
		
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## shortstuff99 (15 September 2021)

MotherOfChickens said:



			don't see much point in that either. I mean, before WBs took over you had ID x TB and anglos, got the point of those.

But (and I will upset folk with this) why cross (for example) an Iberian with a WB? They are two very different animals, you either want one type or the other surely and if you want something thats middling at extension or collection, there are breeds that do that too.

There are (or maybe were) breeds of horses and ponies for every job that your leisure rider could want-before people  wanted something to ride in an arena day in day out and thought that they needed something else for that.

And to be honest, this does happen in horses-Belwade I believe have just rescued 100 poorly bred cross bred colts. No doubt they will all go on to be useful companion horses.
		
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In Spain they used to cross PREs with TB (and or Arab) to make them quicker for bull fighting or Doma Vaquera. It was also because breeding lines mean a lot and they don't want the nice ones to get gored by a bull 😬.


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## skinnydipper (15 September 2021)

bonny said:



			I’m not sure that knowing one dog with dodgy hips is significant of anything, anymore than someone else saying their cross  breed lived to be 18 and never suffered with anything.
		
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A dog with "dodgy" hips is significant to me, having previously taken on a GSD with hip and elbow dysplasia.

Dam and sire should be screened for known health problems related to their breed.

Any dog with known health problems should not be allowed to breed.


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## bonny (15 September 2021)

skinnydipper said:



			A dog with "dodgy" hips is significant to me, having previously taken on a GSD with hip and elbow dysplasia.

Dam and sire should be screened for known health problems related to their breed.

Any dog with known health problems should not be allowed to breed.
		
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In an ideal world we should probably just stop breeding dogs that are known to have health problems but that’s not going to happen. A lot of the more popular breeds are the ones that have health problems, funny thing human preferences.


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## MotherOfChickens (15 September 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			In Spain they used to cross PREs with TB (and or Arab) to make them quicker for bull fighting or Doma Vaquera. It was also because breeding lines mean a lot and they don't want the nice ones to get gored by a bull 😬.
		
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Tres Sangres are anglos x Iberian and probably not for the faint hearted   or the UK leisure market.


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## shortstuff99 (15 September 2021)

MotherOfChickens said:



			Tres Sangres are anglos x Iberian and probably not for the faint hearted   or the UK leisure market.
		
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Depends what you're into, I know I prefer mine more then what people would call 'sane' horses 🤣


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (15 September 2021)

bonny said:



			In an ideal world we should probably just stop breeding dogs that are known to have health problems but that’s not going to happen. A lot of the more popular breeds are the ones that have health problems, funny thing human preferences.
		
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If we started that though there would be hardly any dogs left. Off the top of my head we'd have to stop: 

- English Bulldogs
-  Brachy Dogs - Frenchies, Boston Terriers, Pugs, Pekingese
-  King Charles Cavalier Spaniels 
-  Rottweilers - epilepsy and bone disese
-  Great Danes - dysplasia and short life span 
-  Weims - Von Willebrand Disease
-  St Bernerd - hip/elbow dysplasia
- Boxers - cancer
- Bloodhounds - eye problems
- Doberman Pinscher - liver disease
- Irish Setter - Epilepsy
- Poodles - bloat 
- Toy Poodles - bladder stones
- Golden Doodles - heart conditions 
- Shih Tzu - patella problems
- Shetty Sheepdogs - skin problems
- Australian Shepherds - just about everything, dysplasia, cataracts etc
- Chow Chow - crap bones 
- Newfies - Heart Problems
- Labradors - EIC and cancers
- Basset Hound - just about everything
- Retriever - dysplasia hip & elbow
- GSD - Hips and ears
- Cocker Spaniel - epilepsy, heart disease, liver disease, various orthopedic problems..


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## MotherOfChickens (15 September 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			Depends what you're into, I know I prefer mine more then what people would call 'sane' horses 🤣
		
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dont get me wrong, I love an Iberian myself although I no longer have one.


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## CorvusCorax (15 September 2021)

HD & ED is easy to screen for/the systems are well established, and with a proper database you can look through generations, siblings etc.


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## bonny (15 September 2021)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			If we started that though there would be hardly any dogs left. Off the top of my head we'd have to stop:

- English Bulldogs
-  Brachy Dogs - Frenchies, Boston Terriers, Pugs, Pekingese
-  King Charles Cavalier Spaniels
-  Rottweilers - epilepsy and bone disese
-  Great Danes - dysplasia and short life span
-  Weims - Von Willebrand Disease
-  St Bernerd - hip/elbow dysplasia
- Boxers - cancer
- Bloodhounds - eye problems
- Doberman Pinscher - liver disease
- Irish Setter - Epilepsy
- Poodles - bloat
- Toy Poodles - bladder stones
- Golden Doodles - heart conditions
- Shih Tzu - patella problems
- Shetty Sheepdogs - skin problems
- Australian Shepherds - just about everything, dysplasia, cataracts etc
- Chow Chow - crap bones
- Newfies - Heart Problems
- Labradors - EIC and cancers
- Basset Hound - just about everything
- Retriever - dysplasia hip & elbow
- GSD - Hips and ears
- Cocker Spaniel - epilepsy, heart disease, liver disease, various orthopedic problems..
		
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Maybe we have got the answer though,  cut down the crazy amount of dogs we’ve got, cut down all the walking vets bills and all will be well !


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## paisley (15 September 2021)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			If we started that though there would be hardly any dogs left. Off the top of my head we'd have to stop:

- English Bulldogs
-  Brachy Dogs - Frenchies, Boston Terriers, Pugs, Pekingese
-  King Charles Cavalier Spaniels
-  Rottweilers - epilepsy and bone disese
-  Great Danes - dysplasia and short life span
-  Weims - Von Willebrand Disease
-  St Bernerd - hip/elbow dysplasia
- Boxers - cancer
- Bloodhounds - eye problems
- Doberman Pinscher - liver disease
- Irish Setter - Epilepsy
- Poodles - bloat
- Toy Poodles - bladder stones
- Golden Doodles - heart conditions
- Shih Tzu - patella problems
- Shetty Sheepdogs - skin problems
- Australian Shepherds - just about everything, dysplasia, cataracts etc
- Chow Chow - crap bones
- Newfies - Heart Problems
- Labradors - EIC and cancers
- Basset Hound - just about everything
- Retriever - dysplasia hip & elbow
- GSD - Hips and ears
- Cocker Spaniel - epilepsy, heart disease, liver disease, various orthopedic problems..
		
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Hey, don't leave out whippets! Or 'chronic self harmers' as I know them


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## Cinnamontoast (15 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			What problems are you insinuating these dogs have? I have one and know of four others all have better health than any pure breed dog I know
		
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Next door’s appears to have luxating patella from what they’ve told me. Again, I think _some_ breeders of these poocrosses are not ethical and don’t hip/elbow score. Saying they’re healthier than pure breds who might have 5 generations of excellent hip/elbow scores recorded is not at all necessarily correct. Of course, a cross may be healthier than a pure bred, but health tests are key, not the fact of being a cross.


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## Errin Paddywack (16 September 2021)

The biggest issue with any dog pedigree or crossbreed is whether or not the parents are sound and healthy. Provided the parents have had the relevant health checks done I have no problem with sensible crosses and have met some delightful mixes.  I think some people cross two breeds just so they can come up with a silly name for the cross, worst possible reason for breeding.


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## Parrotperson (16 September 2021)

scats said:



			All my dogs are crossbreeds. I have a Great Dane X Husky, who I got from a rescue at 4 months. She’s the most fantastic dog- is now 12, fit as fiddle and has the most incredible temperament- loyal and kind.
Bess is a Corgi x Cockapoo, weird mix but an absolute treasure of a dog who is loyal, funny, fit and healthy.  Her temperament is second to none and she’s intelligent, trainable and so loving.
Lily-Rose is a Shihtzu x JR. I love that the JR influence has elongated her nose so she doesn’t have the associated problems of a brachy dog.
I don’t call them by designer names, simply the cross they are.  But they are fabulous dogs.
I wonder if people just called them cocker crosses, would people feel less strongly about it? I almost wonder if the connotations of ‘cockapoo’ now brings almost instant negativity, particularly to those who are very pro purebreds.
		
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possibly. In my day they'd all be mongrels or Heinz 57's!


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## Parrotperson (16 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			What problems are you insinuating these dogs have? I have one and know of four others all have better health than any pure breed dog I know
		
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really not "insinuating" anything! Its just an opinion which if you disagree with fine. I'm just adding to the discussion not trying to start an argument!! 😳😂

But. Poodles are highly intelligent and need proper training and IMHO something to do. Cross with a yorkie who are protective, active and well terriers!

I can see problems arising which led to this little dog needing rescuing. Apart from anything else she is extremely yappy and not everyone will know how to cope with this.


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## Parrotperson (16 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			What problems are you insinuating these dogs have? I have one and know of four others all have better health than any pure breed dog I know
		
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also out of interest what would you say to the "wolf dog" I saw advertised the other day? A northern Inuit crossed with a wolfdog. It was about 8 mo the old been bought during lockdown and they couldn't cope with it. There's a surprise. 

Why though on god's good earth would you breed this in the first place? Probably perfectly healthy. But........🙄


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## Parrotperson (16 September 2021)

Errin Paddywack said:



			The biggest issue with any dog pedigree or crossbreed is whether or not the parents are sound and healthy. Provided the parents have had the relevant health checks done I have no problem with sensible crosses and have met some delightful mixes.  I think some people cross two breeds just so they can come up with a silly name for the cross, worst possible reason for breeding.
		
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yes indeed. Health checks are absolutely necessary


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## CorvusCorax (16 September 2021)

Parrotperson said:



			also out of interest what would you say to the "wolf dog" I saw advertised the other day? A northern Inuit crossed with a wolfdog. It was about 8 mo the old been bought during lockdown and they couldn't cope with it. There's a surprise. 

Why though on god's good earth would you breed this in the first place? Probably perfectly healthy. But........🙄
		
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Teh GaMe oF tHrOnz


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## misst (16 September 2021)

I thank god I found my little JRT in the January pre lockdown. £900 KC registered eyes heart knees and ?? ataxia (I think) tested for both parents. 4 pups in litter, bitch will have one more then be speyed. Found by word of mouth at 17 weeks as breeder did not advertise and would not let them go before mid January due to not wanting them being xmas presents. She breeds one litter every other year and likes to show here and abroad. No litters since lockdown and her website is closed as she was fed up with idiots ringing her up.

I have posted on P.Ls thread about Lockdown dogs regarding a KCCS. 17 year old original dog died. Young woman distressed dog she had grown up with had died so in 3 weeks found and bought another. 8 weeks (or less??) puppy 4K. Went to Wales to get it. Looks like a springer x KCCS. Very flightly and scatty and nervous. Now at one year legs going in all directions. Walks on its "fetlocks" at the front and hunches it back as if it has discomfort. She is fed up with it as it is not like her previous dog - ie doesn't sit on your lap and is not "friendly". They say he is bad with other dogs (he likes to play puppy chase) and children! They have no children but he is amazing with my granddaughter who is dog aware and supervised at all times of course.

He has a lovely nature and once he knows you and has the right environment and is allowed to be a young slightly nervy dog he is fine. He adores my 2 and my son is trying to buy him as they leave him constantly with other people so they can go for country walks in peace!! They want their 4K. He is unneutered, uninsured and a walking time bomb for vets bills. My son is going to offer £500 tomorrow as he is so fond of the dog and feels so sorry for him and truely cannot afford more. Fingers crossed they will admit their mistake.


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## misst (16 September 2021)

Parrotperson said:



			really not "insinuating" anything! Its just an opinion which if you disagree with fine. I'm just adding to the discussion not trying to start an argument!! 😳😂

But. Poodles are highly intelligent and need proper training and IMHO something to do. Cross with a yorkie who are protective, active and well terriers!

I can see problems arising which led to this little dog needing rescuing. Apart from anything else she is extremely yappy and not everyone will know how to cope with this.
		
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Agree entirely. We have a rehome who is propably a yorkie x jrt. I love him but he has leg deformities which have needed an operation (severe patella problems in one hind) and will have arthritiis in years to come from the other legs. This will probably shorten his life as I will not operate on the others as he did not cope with cage rest and handling by strangers.

He is yappy in the extreme. He is tricky if he does not like you and can be territorial. He is loyal and funny and affectionate and good with all family members and family dogs. He is super clever and quick to learn. Outside of the family he is a bit hit and miss though he only warns off never makes contact - but for a small dog he looks scary. 

He came to us afraid and reactive but our older JRT at the time was a godsend and helped him learn. He now has our younger one to play with. We live in a quiet area with direct access to open common and no attached neighbours. He would be a nightmare in an urban setting and I can imagine in an inexperienced non terrier home may have become more agressive. So I am with Parrotperosn - health checks are important but Yorkies are not good crosses and to cross with another intelligent high energy breed of any kind is madness.


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## bonny (16 September 2021)

misst said:



			I thank god I found my little JRT in the January pre lockdown. £900 KC registered eyes heart knees and ?? ataxia (I think) tested for both parents. 4 pups in litter, bitch will have one more then be speyed. Found by word of mouth at 17 weeks as breeder did not advertise and would not let them go before mid January due to not wanting them being xmas presents. She breeds one litter every other year and likes to show here and abroad. No litters since lockdown and her website is closed as she was fed up with idiots ringing her up.

I have posted on P.Ls thread about Lockdown dogs regarding a KCCS. 17 year old original dog died. Young woman distressed dog she had grown up with had died so in 3 weeks found and bought another. 8 weeks (or less??) puppy 4K. Went to Wales to get it. Looks like a springer x KCCS. Very flightly and scatty and nervous. Now at one year legs going in all directions. Walks on its "fetlocks" at the front and hunches it back as if it has discomfort. She is fed up with it as it is not like her previous dog - ie doesn't sit on your lap and is not "friendly". They say he is bad with other dogs (he likes to play puppy chase) and children! They have no children but he is amazing with my granddaughter who is dog aware and supervised at all times of course.

He has a lovely nature and once he knows you and has the right environment and is allowed to be a young slightly nervy dog he is fine. He adores my 2 and my son is trying to buy him as they leave him constantly with other people so they can go for country walks in peace!! They want their 4K. He is unneutered, uninsured and a walking time bomb for vets bills. My son is going to offer £500 tomorrow as he is so fond of the dog and feels so sorry for him and truely cannot afford more. Fingers crossed they will admit their mistake.
		
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I’ve just done the same thing, my dog died and for the first time in my life I was dogless and totally lost without one. I went out and bought a puppy, didn’t pay 4 thousand though, saw his mum but not his dad, no checks, no reg. now I’m thinking everywhere I go with him I’m being judged for having a lockdown puppy ! Which gets me wondering, what is a lockdown puppy ? Is it anyone who bought one since Covid ?


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## skinnydipper (16 September 2021)

I think this post might cover it all - inherited disease, poor breeding practices and an upsurge of ignorant owners.

A few days ago a dog ran up behind my dog and I, started running round us and jumping up at my large (giant size) dog.  I looked around and could see no owner. When he did finally crest the brow of the hill he was shouting "he only wants to play" .  

My dog was tolerant but not thrilled at being jumped on so I suggested to the owner that he might like to put his dog on a lead so that my dog and I could continue our walk unhindered.  You would think that even the most stupid owner could see that a situation like that might not end well.

I let him go ahead and big dog and I ambled behind.

He let it off.  It made straight for a Bedlington on a lead and proceeded to jump all over that.  The poor thing was screaming in terror.  This frail young Bedlington is ill, copper storage disease.  Must feel like shit and vulnerable and some idiot is allowing his dog to jump all over it.  It was awful to witness the distress of the Bedlington.

For information, copper storage disease (copper storage hepatopathy). is an inherited disease in Bedlingtons caused by a genetic mutation,   You have to ask yourself why the breeders of the pup did not test the DNA of their breeding stock.

We meet some nice dogs with their people and my dog is sociable with those with 4 legs and with 2 but there is an increasing number of untrained, ill mannered or aggressive dogs with idiot owners.

I think I must have heard every excuse as to why the idiot's dog has kicked off at my dog:  their dog doesn't like big dogs, its because she is on a lead, only does it with dogs it doesn't know, it usually likes other dogs but not on Wednesdays.  If you know your dog is likely to kick off at another dog, for whatever reason, kindly put it on a lead when you see me coming because I am nowhere near as tolerant as my dog


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## skinnydipper (16 September 2021)

bonny said:



			I’ve just done the same thing, my dog died and for the first time in my life I was dogless and totally lost without one. I went out and bought a puppy, didn’t pay 4 thousand though, saw his mum but not his dad, no checks, no reg. now I’m thinking everywhere I go with him I’m being judged for having a lockdown puppy ! Which gets me wondering, what is a lockdown puppy ? Is it anyone who bought one since Covid ?
		
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Dogless?

I am confused.  Did your old dog and your youngster die and you got another pup?



bonny said:



			I did exactly that, I had an old collie who was 15 and got a puppy and it worked out really well. She couldn’t be bothered with the pup and he learnt right away to more or less ignore her but she was a great help in him learning about life. He followed her on walks so I never had a problem with him being off lead and because she was quiet at nights etc so was he. I think puppies learn by following other dogs much more than they learn from humans so I would say in your situation just go for it.
		
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## bonny (16 September 2021)

skinnydipper said:



			Dogless?

I am confused.  Did your old dog and your youngster die and you got another pup?
		
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I just said he did, if I still had my old dog she would be 20, not surprisingly I haven’t !


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## skinnydipper (16 September 2021)

bonny said:



			I just said he did, if I still had my old dog she would be 20, not surprisingly I haven’t !
		
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Was that the dog with epilepsy?  I am sorry to hear that he died.


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## bonny (16 September 2021)

skinnydipper said:



			Was that the dog with epilepsy?  I am sorry to hear that he died.
		
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Yes, not sure what was going on, he collapsed and his vital signs were so bad the vet didn’t want to attempt treatment so I’ll never know. he was only 5 and very much missed.


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## splashgirl45 (16 September 2021)

so sorry bonny, its hard to lose them when they are old but 5 is no age at all...glad you have another little one to love.  i also got a puppy who is a mix of 3 breeds and she was the runt and no one wanted her.  she was a tiny weak little thing and i went with my heart not my head.  i recently lost my old collie so i am glad i got her    as a companion to my other terrier..


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## Parrotperson (16 September 2021)

😂😂😂. Never watched it but 


CorvusCorax said:



			Teh GaMe oF tHrOnz
		
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guess they had wolf dogs!


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## Loubidy (16 September 2021)

If it was possible, I think you should have to sit some sort of test to get a licence before you are allowed any animal.

I cannot get my head round how people can just give them up, don't get me wrong Penguin is a pain in the a$$ sometimes and definitely has selective hearing and I absolutely should have done a better job of training her (woops - we're working on it) but from the moment she came home she became a priority in my life - as is my horse. It honestly baffles me that folk can look at their pet and think nah not for me anymore (obviously there are some circumstances where people don't have a choice I do not mean all). I just can't understand how people can see animals as disposable?

I was extremely lucky that my dog was bred by a friend of mine so have known her since the day she was born, she's a JRT but no fancy breeding, I know both parents and no known health issues, I know the vets they use and the lifestyle. Yes, she is a lockdown puppy, there were no puppy classes but I did what I could to socialise - we went to the park on the weekends to see lots of other dogs and small people who wanted to pet her.

I don't see an issue with crossbreeding when done for the right reasons, plenty of KC breeders breeding "Show quality" dogs with disgusting health issues as a result. £3k for a puppy is obscene and alienates a lot of potentially great homes but I can totally see why people would do it, not many ways you can make £20k that easily and most folk probably think they can vet out the good homes just sad that people are very good liars.


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## Karran (16 September 2021)

Someone I work with got a puppy yesterday as she promised it to her son - a Cockerpoo. But a "pedigree one" She is already complaining about the smell......


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## CorvusCorax (16 September 2021)

I think there's a bit of a difference between getting a dog during the lockdown and getting a dog/breeding puppies **because** of the lockdown (at home, bit bored, everyone else is doing it etc).
I got a dog last year but I've owned her father since he was 14 weeks old, both parents have health tests, working qualifications and show grades and so does every other dog in the pedigree, which I know, because I can look the pedigree up on a database and I know a lot of the dogs behind them. All pups spoken for before birth.
None of these things are guarantees, but they do help. Or you can just hit and hope.


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## coblets (16 September 2021)

Karran said:



			Someone I work with got a puppy yesterday as she promised it to her son - a Cockerpoo. But a "pedigree one" She is already complaining about the smell......
		
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Reading this makes me feel really sad. Fair enough if you don't like the smell of dogs or dealing with poo or whatever, and fair enough that a child has been clamouring on about getting a puppy because they don't know any better. But how can a fully grown adult look at the eyes of an animal, any animal at all, and not think of how they're ultimately buying a life? How can you buy a dog without discussing beforehand potential veterinary issues, how much exercise they'll need, how much time you'll need to put in to train or take to classes, what kind of diet you're going to be feeding it to make sure it grows up strong and healthy? How can you buy a dog without considering whether you're prepared for the responsibility of an animal, of being all it knows, of being the one whose decisions 100% dicate its life, of being the one who may one day have to make the call to put it to sleep?

Of course I don't know that your colleague hasn't considered all this, but your description of her makes me doubt it


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (16 September 2021)

Karran said:



			Someone I work with got a puppy yesterday as she promised it to her son - a Cockerpoo. But a "pedigree one" She is already complaining about the smell......
		
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The smell of the dog in general?! Has she never met a dog before? 
Laughed at the Pedigree, I wonder how many weeks it will be before son loses interest and it's put on FB marketplace?


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## Karran (16 September 2021)

I dont know is the answer to both of your posts. I hope it works out. I'll do my best to help where I can for both their sakes if needed, but i'm already worried for it.


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## bonny (16 September 2021)

coblets said:



			Reading this makes me feel really sad. Fair enough if you don't like the smell of dogs or dealing with poo or whatever, and fair enough that a child has been clamouring on about getting a puppy because they don't know any better. But how can a fully grown adult look at the eyes of an animal, any animal at all, and not think of how they're ultimately buying a life? How can you buy a dog without discussing beforehand potential veterinary issues, how much exercise they'll need, how much time you'll need to put in to train or take to classes, what kind of diet you're going to be feeding it to make sure it grows up strong and healthy? How can you buy a dog without considering whether you're prepared for the responsibility of an animal, of being all it knows, of being the one whose decisions 100% dicate its life, of being the one who may one day have to make the call to put it to sleep?

Of course I don't know that your colleague hasn't considered all this, but your description of her makes me doubt it 

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I suspect a lot of first time dog owners simply don’t realise the effort and time puppies need if they are going to grow up to be well behaved dogs.


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## Parrotperson (16 September 2021)

Well. This takes the biscuit.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/bullkita-puppies-/1414232207


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## MotherOfChickens (16 September 2021)

Parrotperson said:



			Well. This takes the biscuit.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/bullkita-puppies-/1414232207

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Ohh, shit what a well thought out cross.


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## TPO (16 September 2021)

Parrotperson said:



			Well. This takes the biscuit.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/bullkita-puppies-/1414232207

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🙈🙈🙈

I've only had personal experience of one akita and it was not good. In all my years the only dog I thought would go me for no reason. I understand that one dog doesn't represent a while breed but even still they are the last thing I would be crossed with bulldogs.

I wonder if the rate of dog attacks will sharply increase over the coming years with all this breeding, unsuitable homes/owners and the whole status thing


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## P3LH (16 September 2021)

My issue isn’t with a dog being a crossbreed. I have just as much issue with purebreds and pedigrees too.

My issue is with dogs bred unethically, and unethical breeders.


Where a dog has been bred without thought to temperament, health, steadiness, mental strength, or suitability to fulfil its role (and that does encompass being a suitable pet and sane member of society!)
Where a dog has been bred from parents that do not have enough of the above positive qualities.
Where a dog has been bred from anything with four legs and a tail. Regardless of pure breed or cross breed, they should come from the best we can find - to produce either equal or better for the next generation. No, I don’t believe every dog bred needs to be a champion (and often I think many that are, probably shouldn’t be bred) but they should be the best they can be, in all aspects - and that is where competency, knowledge and understanding as a breeder is integral. Yet now, often lacking.
Where a litter has been bred for no real purpose other than financial gain (eg not to retain a member of the next generation. Im aware not every good breeder will always end up keeping one if there isn’t the suitable pup, but the intention should be there)
Where there is little or no thought, consideration, selection process or rigour on behalf of a breeder when scrutinising suitable owners and homes. Turning up with money is not enough. Wanting a dog is not enough. Some people shouldn’t own a flea. And others may be suitable dog owners, but not for all breeds.
Where there is insufficient expertise or knowledge from breeders on how to rear a litter appropriately, and produce the most secure and stable pups possible.
Where there is insufficient knowledge or even interest in the breed/type/cross they are breeding. My favourite is misspelt breed names in adverts.
Where there is no after support, long term support or breeder/owner relationship there.
Where there is a basic lack of knowledge or competence around dog breeding, genetics etc from people breeding dogs indiscriminately.
Where pups are being sold for outrageous money. There is no logical reason to sell pups at some of the current prices - and some of the ‘good breeders’ seem to follow this trend at times to.
Where pups are bred to supply demand. They are a living, breathing, beautiful thing. They should be well planned for by breeders, months or years before the mating even happens. They should be born into a suitable environment, with every contingency plan going, with someone anxiously there with an emergency first aid whelping kit / just incase, and feed bottles/ just incase. They should be raised to be confident and happy things. And they should be sold to the right people, the best and most suitable. As we can all agree, they give us so much - and make our lives so much richer for being a part of it, so all of the above really should be a basic expectation as a starting point for such treasured creatures. I wouldn’t expect anything less than the above, regardless of the breed or type of dog I was seeking.


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## MotherOfChickens (16 September 2021)

I think Akita’s are just a bit specialised -they would never be an option for me. Still, they crossed two one-person, not particularly great-with-other-dog breeds. Better than a cross with a different breed with a high prey drive and no recall? 🤔😬 you know like a Siberian cross pitt? I have seen akita cross malamutes before, someone in Wishaw was breeding them, I posted anout them a few years ago.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (16 September 2021)

TPO said:



			🙈🙈🙈

I've only had personal experience of one akita and it was not good. In all my years the only dog I thought would go me for no reason. I understand that one dog doesn't represent a while breed but even still they are the last thing I would be crossed with bulldogs.

I wonder if the rate of dog attacks will sharply increase over the coming years with all this breeding, unsuitable homes/owners and the whole status thing
		
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I definitely think it will, because not only do you have a lot of idiot owners and idiot mixes, you also have many that won't admit defeat through being stubborn - until that is they are made to because their Akita cross has someone's arm in it's mouth!

Saying that if I were to buy a dog (and had the home life to suit of course) I would probably want to buy a 'mean' looking medium/larger dog like a Doberman or an American Bulldog because I would like to be able to go out for walks across the more rural parts of the South Downs by myself, and I would feel a lot safer if I had a 'scary' looking dog with me. At the moment I only go with my OH but it feels like a crying shame. I would make sure it was a balanced, trained and friendly dog of course, I would be banking on first impressions alone.


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## P3LH (16 September 2021)

TPO said:



			🙈🙈🙈

I've only had personal experience of one akita and it was not good. In all my years the only dog I thought would go me for no reason. I understand that one dog doesn't represent a while breed but even still they are the last thing I would be crossed with bulldogs.

I wonder if the rate of dog attacks will sharply increase over the coming years with all this breeding, unsuitable homes/owners and the whole status thing
		
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Prior to meeting a Caucasian shepherd, which wants to end the human race (and inspired my above point about suitability to be a pet and sane member of society!) - the only dog breed ive been unable to read the body language of was Akita’s. And if I can’t read it, I don’t want it near me. Puts me on edge.


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## skinnydipper (16 September 2021)

P3LH said:



			Prior to meeting a Caucasian shepherd, which wants to end the human race (and inspired my above point about suitability to be a pet and sane member of society!) - the only dog breed ive been unable to read the body language of was Akita’s. And if I can’t read it, I don’t want it near me. Puts me on edge.
		
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Two breeds I'm not particularly fond of.


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## Odyssey (16 September 2021)

TPO said:



			🙈🙈🙈

I've only had personal experience of one akita and it was not good. In all my years the only dog I thought would go me for no reason. I understand that one dog doesn't represent a while breed but even still they are the last thing I would be crossed with bulldogs.

I wonder if the rate of dog attacks will sharply increase over the coming years with all this breeding, unsuitable homes/owners and the whole status thing
		
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I agree, that's a terrible cross, I'd hate to meet one of those when walking my dog! 🙄 Both very powerful breeds, which will no doubt be bought as status dogs and encouraged to be intimidating. The rate of dog attacks has definitely risen in recent years, even without all the extra out of control dogs bought during lockdown by unsuitable people, and unfortunately I'm sure they will continue to rise. If only people just bred easy to manage and train, gentle, friendly dogs that make good pets for the average dog owner!


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## fankino04 (16 September 2021)

P3LH said:



			My issue isn’t with a dog being a crossbreed. I have just as much issue with purebreds and pedigrees too.

My issue is with dogs bred unethically, and unethical breeders.


Where a dog has been bred without thought to temperament, health, steadiness, mental strength, or suitability to fulfil its role (and that does encompass being a suitable pet and sane member of society!)
Where a dog has been bred from parents that do not have enough of the above positive qualities.
Where a dog has been bred from anything with four legs and a tail. Regardless of pure breed or cross breed, they should come from the best we can find - to produce either equal or better for the next generation. No, I don’t believe every dog bred needs to be a champion (and often I think many that are, probably shouldn’t be bred) but they should be the best they can be, in all aspects - and that is where competency, knowledge and understanding as a breeder is integral. Yet now, often lacking.
Where a litter has been bred for no real purpose other than financial gain (eg not to retain a member of the next generation. Im aware not every good breeder will always end up keeping one if there isn’t the suitable pup, but the intention should be there)
Where there is little or no thought, consideration, selection process or rigour on behalf of a breeder when scrutinising suitable owners and homes. Turning up with money is not enough. Wanting a dog is not enough. Some people shouldn’t own a flea. And others may be suitable dog owners, but not for all breeds.
Where there is insufficient expertise or knowledge from breeders on how to rear a litter appropriately, and produce the most secure and stable pups possible.
Where there is insufficient knowledge or even interest in the breed/type/cross they are breeding. My favourite is misspelt breed names in adverts.
Where there is no after support, long term support or breeder/owner relationship there.
Where there is a basic lack of knowledge or competence around dog breeding, genetics etc from people breeding dogs indiscriminately.
Where pups are being sold for outrageous money. There is no logical reason to sell pups at some of the current prices - and some of the ‘good breeders’ seem to follow this trend at times to.
Where pups are bred to supply demand. They are a living, breathing, beautiful thing. They should be well planned for by breeders, months or years before the mating even happens. They should be born into a suitable environment, with every contingency plan going, with someone anxiously there with an emergency first aid whelping kit / just incase, and feed bottles/ just incase. They should be raised to be confident and happy things. And they should be sold to the right people, the best and most suitable. As we can all agree, they give us so much - and make our lives so much richer for being a part of it, so all of the above really should be a basic expectation as a starting point for such treasured creatures. I wouldn’t expect anything less than the above, regardless of the breed or type of dog I was seeking.


Click to expand...

I was trying to work out how to say the above as eloquently as you have lol, I would add that I think the KC have alot to answer for in breeding pedigree dogs to a new "type / standard" that at no longer healthy. Pedigree / mongrel or crossbreed makes no odds to me.


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## Amymay (16 September 2021)

Karran said:



			I dont know is the answer to both of your posts. I hope it works out. I'll do my best to help where I can for both their sakes if needed, but i'm already worried for it.
		
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The fact that it smells is not a good sign.  Hopefully it’s having a vet check this week.


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## AdorableAlice (16 September 2021)

The thread was an interesting read.

For the last 18 months and currently (although some demand has ceased in certain parts of the country), a bitch of breeding age is not a dog, it is a fur covered walking bank account and until the public stop funding the bank the problem with just keep escalating.

I cannot comment on here about what I deal with on a daily basis but it is heart breaking, needless and abject cruelty.  All fuelled by the the uneducated rose tinted public.


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## Karran (16 September 2021)

Amymay said:



			The fact that it smells is not a good sign.  Hopefully it’s having a vet check this week.
		
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I assume so. But I think she means general dog smell. Or at least I hope so. I'm on annual leave now for a week so I'm sure I'll hear more about it when I get back....


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## CorvusCorax (16 September 2021)

fankino04 said:



			I was trying to work out how to say the above as eloquently as you have lol, I would add that I think the KC have alot to answer for in breeding pedigree dogs to a new "type / standard" that at no longer healthy. Pedigree / mongrel or crossbreed makes no odds to me.
		
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The KC doesn't breed dogs, it registers them. Some people who breed dogs are KC members, some aren't. It's as the name suggests, a club.
Every purebred dog has a breed standard against which it should be judged in the show ring. Mostly written/held by the FCI, with which the KC is (I think) a 'contract partner'.
There are a lot of dogs not being bred to breed standards that are of equally poor health/temperament as those which are.
I'm not a fan of the KC and they could be doing a lot more, but I think the Jemima Harrison documentary did a lot of damage in terms of public perception of what a well bred dog is and drove a lot of well-meaning people into the arms of puppy farmers.


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## DabDab (16 September 2021)

I think you see the same problems with crossbreeds these days as historically there has been with purebreds - the moment you describe something as a particular 'thing' then people seem to be able to suspend their ability to recognise a dog that is not functionally sound (in body and mind). Giving designer nicknames to certain crossbreeds was a very bad thing to happen to mongrels.


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## Karran (5 October 2021)

Karran said:



			Someone I work with got a puppy yesterday as she promised it to her son - a Cockerpoo. But a "pedigree one" She is already complaining about the smell......
		
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Was speaking with my colleague today. First time I've seen her since hearing about her puppy. Not surprised to hear that the pup had already gone back to its breeder. I suppose its small mercies that the breeder had a clause about rehoming it and will hopefully be more careful in future.


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## splashgirl45 (6 October 2021)

the breeder knows they can re sell with no problems as everyone seems to want a poo mix,  not me though.


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## only_me (7 October 2021)

I think I’ve seen the worst cross now. French bulldog (bitch) x shar pei. who on earth thought that would be a good cross?! 


https://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/frenchie-pei-puppies-/1416628871


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## conniegirl (8 October 2021)

only_me said:



			I think I’ve seen the worst cross now. French bulldog (bitch) x shar pei. who on earth thought that would be a good cross?! 


https://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/frenchie-pei-puppies-/1416628871

Click to expand...

I have to say the frenchie has one of the best noses ive seen on a frenchie in by a long time. That good nose is probably why they are breeding crosses from her as it is not seemingly favoured by purebred breeders


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## only_me (8 October 2021)

conniegirl said:



			I have to say the frenchie has one of the best noses ive seen on a frenchie in by a long time. That good nose is probably why they are breeding crosses from her as it is not seemingly favoured by purebred breeders
		
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frenchie has a great face, but why breed to a dog who is so much larger? I’m imagining frenchie sized dogs with massive heads lol. 

I am intrigued by a hound/springer cross I saw on there, sounds like potentially a great shoot dog but wonder how the recall would be lol. Suspect it’s a non intended cross but at least one that could work out well!


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (8 October 2021)

I'm not even that mad at the cross, I don't know enough about shar-peis' personalities, but they've called it a Frenchie-Pei.  Whyyyy


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## ownedbyaconnie (8 October 2021)

A friend has a shih tzu and we laughed about what we would call the puppies if we bred from him and Mabel (cockerpoo).

Cockshitz? Shitpoo?


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## Amymay (8 October 2021)

ownedbyaconnie said:



			A friend has a shih tzu and we laughed about what we would call the puppies if we bred from him and Mabel (cockerpoo).

Cockshitz? Shitpoo?
		
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🤣🤣🤣

How about my two?  Bichon x Shitzu = Shiton!!


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## CorvusCorax (8 October 2021)

I'm tickled by the idea that any actual thought or deliberation went into breeding a French Bulldog with a Shar-Pei (aloof can be a whole personality type). Apart from the breathing, both breeds are prone to eye and skin issues.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (8 October 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			I'm tickled by the idea that any actual thought or deliberation went into breeding a French Bulldog with a Shar-Pei (aloof can be a whole personality type). Apart from the breathing, both breeds are prone to eye and skin issues.
		
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It probably went along the lines of 'this dog has balls, oh hang on.. this one has a uterus'..


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (13 October 2021)




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## CorvusCorax (13 October 2021)

OMFG. 
Runrunrunruncollapse.


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## CorvusCorax (13 October 2021)

I was in the vets just now for something routine and there was a pocket bully in the waiting room which was breathing so loudly that the receptionists couldn't hear what was being said to them at the desks.


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## Clodagh (13 October 2021)

A vet friend was abused by a Frenchie owner yesterday for charging so much for the emergency caesarean the bitch had to have.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (14 October 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			I was in the vets just now for something routine and there was a pocket bully in the waiting room which was breathing so loudly that the receptionists couldn't hear what was being said to them at the desks.
		
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God, poor things. At least if it was in the vets it would hopefully be getting some sort of soft palate surgery..  They should have permanently reserved chairs with that choice of dog! 

Someone on FB has just bought a £1800 GSD X Staffy x Great Dane. Or in other words, an expensive mongrel


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## TPO (14 October 2021)

Clodagh said:



			A vet friend was abused by a Frenchie owner yesterday for charging so much for the emergency caesarean the bitch had to have.
		
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People can be awful regardless of breeds! Not all frenchie owners are ignorant or abusive to vets.


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## TPO (14 October 2021)

😬😬😬


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (14 October 2021)

TPO said:



			😬😬😬

View attachment 81063

Click to expand...


I wonder what Sue has ever done to them


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## CanteringCarrot (14 October 2021)

Idk that I want a full bread pup. Does it grow mold? 🤔 do I need to keep it in a bread box? Maybe tastes good with butter and/or jam?


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## CorvusCorax (14 October 2021)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			God, poor things. At least if it was in the vets it would hopefully be getting some sort of soft palate surgery..  They should have permanently reserved chairs with that choice of dog!
		
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It was either pregnant or grossly overweight.


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## Parrotperson (14 October 2021)

god this thread is depressing.


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## P3LH (14 October 2021)

Sadly it’s not just bad breeders/greeders responsible for the current state of affairs. I know some ‘good breeders’ are certainly cashing in. I am paying the same for the new corgi pup as I did for current pembroke two and a bit years ago. There are other litters on the ground from ‘good breeders’ in terms of what we’d advise owners to be looking for - charging double and in one instance, triple, this cost for pups which probably aren’t quite as ‘well bred’ either.

In a separate breed, I know a friend returned to the same show breeder they got their Welsh terrier from three years ago, payed triple what they had done and had three litters of welshies to choose from and there were two of another breed too. This is a good breeder in many ways, and again - would be what you’d suggest someone to look for.

I just can’t fathom it myself - the price situation. Perhaps I was just always surrounded by old school breeders growing up, who only bred for themselves and anything more than two to run on was surplus so good home was more important…sadly I think these days are going…


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## P3LH (14 October 2021)

Interestingly when, earlier in the year, my blue rough collie boy was unwell and we progressed through his final journey at the vets after ten days or so of daily vet visits - I was surprised at:

a) how many litters of pups I saw in crates for jabs or check ups
B) that I counted no less than six of these pocket bully types, waddling in snorting so loudly you could almost feel the vibrations - to go for elective or emergency c-sections.

I do think things are a mess.


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## Penny Less (14 October 2021)

These crosses are mongrels, and should be priced as such IMHO


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## Spanny (14 October 2021)

Penny Less said:



			These crosses are mongrels, and should be priced as such IMHO
		
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I have a mongrel pup, but the look on people's faces when they ask what breed he is and I tell them that! Did it turn into a bad word while I wasn't paying attention?


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## splashgirl45 (14 October 2021)

i always say mine are mongrels or heinz57,  they are both terrier mixes, no fancy names or prices...


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## AdorableAlice (14 October 2021)

The bubble has burst, I am seeing whole litters unsold and massive price reductions still not moving pups on.  Plus many 6 month old puppies for sale.

The welfare crisis is certainly underway in middle England.


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## stangs (14 October 2021)

Round here, I'm seeing a drop in prices for the "designer" crossbreeds, but the more high energy breeds and mini toy breeds are still going up for a good price.

On that note, it continues to baffle me how many high energy breeds (specifically need-lots-of-socialisation breeds) are being bred here. Saw a litter of Akita x American Bulldogs the other day. How many people in London, nay all of the SE, are equipped to deal with that kind cross?


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## P3LH (14 October 2021)

We encountered the bank of reproductive organs again.

Conversation with an acquaintance we bumped into on a dog walk this evening. A friend of a friend really. I had mentioned about new pup.

Acquaintance: another corgi? A boy I assume?
Me: a dog, yes. Why?
Them: well you’re gonna breed that one aren’t you -points at tank-
Me: we did think about it yes, but no she will be speyed. 
Them: why you getting a boy then? Everyone’s breeding dogs now. I bet these go for a lot.
Me: wanted another puppy, he’s very nice.
Them: make nice pups then. 
Me: we aren’t going to breed. We’d have only been doing it to have something back, and with support from her breeder. As we’re getting another corgi without the risks, hassle or responsibility of a litter its even better.Plus she’s so sharp I’m not sure everyone would cope with her.
Them: why would you keep one?
Me: why would I breed otherwise?
Them: We mated them last year - points at elderly BC type male and young scatty female cockerpoo - payed for the kitchen to be done. Did her again this year but she only had one. My sister had two of the pups last year. They had pups from them this year. Bought a new car. Mum got some frenchies to breed now as well. She’s given up work.
Me: right..
Them: and next door had an extension done. They breed them, not cockerpoo - the other ones. King Charles and poodle. Always got pups. You’re missing out mate.
Me: bye. -looks at dogs- you don’t know how lucky you pair are.

And that’s probably an accurate state of affairs in many pet homes up and down the country.


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## CorvusCorax (14 October 2021)

**throws phone out the window**


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## P3LH (14 October 2021)

The thing is…it is alarming how normal it’s become…


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## silv (15 October 2021)

P3LH said:



			We encountered the bank of reproductive organs again.

Conversation with an acquaintance we bumped into on a dog walk this evening. A friend of a friend really. I had mentioned about new pup.

Acquaintance: another corgi? A boy I assume?
Me: a dog, yes. Why?
Them: well you’re gonna breed that one aren’t you -points at tank-
Me: we did think about it yes, but no she will be speyed.
Them: why you getting a boy then? Everyone’s breeding dogs now. I bet these go for a lot.
Me: wanted another puppy, he’s very nice.
Them: make nice pups then.
Me: we aren’t going to breed. We’d have only been doing it to have something back, and with support from her breeder. As we’re getting another corgi without the risks, hassle or responsibility of a litter its even better.Plus she’s so sharp I’m not sure everyone would cope with her.
Them: why would you keep one?
Me: why would I breed otherwise?
Them: We mated them last year - points at elderly BC type male and young scatty female cockerpoo - payed for the kitchen to be done. Did her again this year but she only had one. My sister had two of the pups last year. They had pups from them this year. Bought a new car. Mum got some frenchies to breed now as well. She’s given up work.
Me: right..
Them: and next door had an extension done. They breed them, not cockerpoo - the other ones. King Charles and poodle. Always got pups. You’re missing out mate.
Me: bye. -looks at dogs- you don’t know how lucky you pair are.

And that’s probably an accurate state of affairs in many pet homes up and down the country.
		
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Sadly this is all too common, and over in NZ also. I reckon the tax man should be chasing this sort of stuff up, its easy money to earn most of the time.  I feel so sorry for the pups.


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## DabDab (15 October 2021)

P3LH said:



			We encountered the bank of reproductive organs again.

Conversation with an acquaintance we bumped into on a dog walk this evening. A friend of a friend really. I had mentioned about new pup.

Acquaintance: another corgi? A boy I assume?
Me: a dog, yes. Why?
Them: well you’re gonna breed that one aren’t you -points at tank-
Me: we did think about it yes, but no she will be speyed.
Them: why you getting a boy then? Everyone’s breeding dogs now. I bet these go for a lot.
Me: wanted another puppy, he’s very nice.
Them: make nice pups then.
Me: we aren’t going to breed. We’d have only been doing it to have something back, and with support from her breeder. As we’re getting another corgi without the risks, hassle or responsibility of a litter its even better.Plus she’s so sharp I’m not sure everyone would cope with her.
Them: why would you keep one?
Me: why would I breed otherwise?
Them: We mated them last year - points at elderly BC type male and young scatty female cockerpoo - payed for the kitchen to be done. Did her again this year but she only had one. My sister had two of the pups last year. They had pups from them this year. Bought a new car. Mum got some frenchies to breed now as well. She’s given up work.
Me: right..
Them: and next door had an extension done. They breed them, not cockerpoo - the other ones. King Charles and poodle. Always got pups. You’re missing out mate.
Me: bye. -looks at dogs- you don’t know how lucky you pair are.

And that’s probably an accurate state of affairs in many pet homes up and down the country.
		
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Depressing isn't it. I've had a similar conversation a few times since getting our mongrel terrier puppy, and the answer that I wouldn't buy a puppy to make money for it and can see literally no good reason to breed her, is apparently a strange answer. 

Even normal, nice, sensible people seem to have that as their first thought when discussing someone's new dog. It has just become completely normalised that people buy pets with half an eye to make money from them. It just makes me so sad. Humans really are selfish, wretched creatures at times.


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## paisley (15 October 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Idk that I want a full bread pup. Does it grow mold? 🤔 do I need to keep it in a bread box? Maybe tastes good with butter and/or jam?
		
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If you leave it in the sun too long, does it become toast? What about all the gluten allergy suffering owners?!


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## CanteringCarrot (15 October 2021)

paisley said:



			If you leave it in the sun too long, does it become toast? What about all the gluten allergy suffering owners?!
		
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Some valid concerns. I don't think a pure bread will be all that popular.


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## stangs (15 October 2021)

paisley said:



			If you leave it in the sun too long, does it become toast? What about all the gluten allergy suffering owners?!
		
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I have a litter of very rare gluten free puppies for sale. Mother is our Brioche Frise, Father is neighbour's Great Dough. 3k each PM me


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## SAujla (15 October 2021)

P3LH said:



			We encountered the bank of reproductive organs again.

Conversation with an acquaintance we bumped into on a dog walk this evening. A friend of a friend really. I had mentioned about new pup.

Acquaintance: another corgi? A boy I assume?
Me: a dog, yes. Why?
Them: well you’re gonna breed that one aren’t you -points at tank-
Me: we did think about it yes, but no she will be speyed.
Them: why you getting a boy then? Everyone’s breeding dogs now. I bet these go for a lot.
Me: wanted another puppy, he’s very nice.
Them: make nice pups then.
Me: we aren’t going to breed. We’d have only been doing it to have something back, and with support from her breeder. As we’re getting another corgi without the risks, hassle or responsibility of a litter its even better.Plus she’s so sharp I’m not sure everyone would cope with her.
Them: why would you keep one?
Me: why would I breed otherwise?
Them: We mated them last year - points at elderly BC type male and young scatty female cockerpoo - payed for the kitchen to be done. Did her again this year but she only had one. My sister had two of the pups last year. They had pups from them this year. Bought a new car. Mum got some frenchies to breed now as well. She’s given up work.
Me: right..
Them: and next door had an extension done. They breed them, not cockerpoo - the other ones. King Charles and poodle. Always got pups. You’re missing out mate.
Me: bye. -looks at dogs- you don’t know how lucky you pair are.

And that’s probably an accurate state of affairs in many pet homes up and down the country.
		
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I find the casual way they talk about it to more horrific than anything else. The sister breeding dogs who were pups last year is terrible. Well done for staying calm. The pandemic has opened the wrong eyes to the world of breeding


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## P3LH (15 October 2021)

SAujla said:



			I find the casual way they talk about it to more horrific than anything else. The sister breeding dogs who were pups last year is terrible. Well done for staying calm. The pandemic has opened the wrong eyes to the world of breeding
		
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Bred at around 13 months. Two bitches of cocker/poodle/collie x Lord knows what breeding. One mated to a ‘cockerpoo’. Another mated to a ‘patterpoo’. Both belonging to other parents at the school their kids attend. 6 pups in one litter. 7 pups in another.

God bless having an OH who loves a social media stalk.


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## CorvusCorax (15 October 2021)

It's just really galling, I work full time and put the rest of my time and money and energy into my dogs, maybe I am the fool for not using them as a cash cow. Yes I've bred my dogs but I took a puppy from one and I charged very little (less than the price of a pup) for the other despite his breeding/health tests/achievements and it went straight back into stuff for them, food, equipment, vet bills etc. All pups reserved/waiting list established before birth.


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## splashgirl45 (15 October 2021)

i was asked lots of times if i was going to breed from my bitch puppy who is yorky/cairn/border terrier,  would never even think of it, she is a mongrel and was the runt of the litter, she is very small, i dont want another puppy and if i did breed  i would never be able to let them go....  it is not even an option now as she has been neutered and i can relax....2 tiny terrors are as many as i can cope with  ...it seems to be the normal now for new dog owners  to breed from anything and sell for thousands.    there are 3 x12 week old cockapoos in rescue as they all have undershot jaws,  what a surprise...


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (15 October 2021)

Someone on my FB is selling two of their Mini Poodles as a breeding pair, and her main selling point seems to be that they produce the smallest babies you have ever seen.. 7 inches from floor to shoulder and repeatedly says 'so small they don't even look real' and it's astonishing that this is a selling point.  What happens if it trips down a step? It smashes all it's tiny, literal matchstick legs? There is a reason they aren't designed to be that small.


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## splashgirl45 (15 October 2021)

brother and sister??  quite likely


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## Ratface (15 October 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			brother and sister??  quite likely

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There is a special type of Karma for these exploitative people: they will return as battery hens  . . .


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## Ratface (15 October 2021)

There's a next life waiting for breeders of deformed but fashionable puppies: battery hens.


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## Ratface (15 October 2021)

Apologies for the dual post.


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## millikins (15 October 2021)

Whilst agreeing generally that there are too many unsuitable dogs in unsuitable homes could the increase in badly behaved dogs be in part because they are fed too much high energy food? 
I homed a dog from Battersea nearly 30 years ago now. She was an 11 month old Rottie X who'd been returned twice as "uncontrollable". They fed all their dogs on Eukanuba, probably the first high energy dog food marketed towards the general public. She had a magnificent coat but she was a bit of a nut job until someone suggested I put her on Chappie. It took about 10 months for her to become a dog who was a pleasure to have around but apart from training and being allowed to settle I firmly believe she couldn't cope with all that protein for a family home level of exercise. Now all these super duper dog foods are everywhere and so are lots of crazy dogs, is it related? My dogs have been on Chappie ever since.


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## splashgirl45 (15 October 2021)

hopefully there will not be battery hens in the future...


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## splashgirl45 (15 October 2021)

a friend of mine had a rottie who she fed on bakers complete and he was pretty uncontrollable,  her vet said to change to a different food and within 2 weeks he was much easier, she thought it was because he was more mature and changed back to bakers,   dog back to being a nutcase, vet was right!!!


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (15 October 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			brother and sister??  quite likely

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No, just both very small dogs I guess..  The pups are tiny but not deformed in a physical disability sense.  No idea what the x-rays would look like though


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## CorvusCorax (15 October 2021)

You generally will see an 11 month old dog settle down a year later, one of mine took about three years to settle the head and I had him since puppy. Genetics is a bigger issue IMO (and he was from a long line of live wires, but that's what I kinda wanted and knew already). There's a lot of stuff you just can't train out completely, just mitigate, and the average pet owner does not have the skill nor motivation to put the time into that mitigation.


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## paisley (15 October 2021)

stangs said:



			I have a litter of very rare gluten free puppies for sale. Mother is our Brioche Frise, Father is neighbour's Great Dough. 3k each PM me 

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How old? I'm looking for bun sized if possible, a bloomer at a push (I'll stop now)


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## P3LH (15 October 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			You generally will see an 11 month old dog settle down a year later, one of mine took about three years to settle the head and I had him since puppy. Genetics is a bigger issue IMO (and he was from a long line of live wires, but that's what I kinda wanted and knew already). There's a lot of stuff you just can't train out completely, just mitigate, and the average pet owner does not have the skill nor motivation to put the time into that mitigation.
		
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And I have his miniature GSD counterpart. I think the word mitigate is key, as you say, with some dogs. I know madam will always try throw her weight around from time to time just to chance it, always think everything is hers until told otherwise, always know better and have more energy than the Duracell bunny on speed - as that’s just her. And after all the training and socialising in the world, that is just her. We just work with it.

Eg last night she decided the sofa was hers and nobody else’s. She is sulking with me today but now we are very clear it in fact does not belong to her.


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## Parrotperson (15 October 2021)

I bet she has the RSCPT (Royal society for prevention of cruelty to Tank) on speed dial! I mean she's clever enough to use a phone.....😂


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## CorvusCorax (15 October 2021)

P3LH said:



			And I have his miniature GSD counterpart. I think the word mitigate is key, as you say, with some dogs. I know madam will always try throw her weight around from time to time just to chance it, always think everything is hers until told otherwise, always know better and have more energy than the Duracell bunny on speed - as that’s just her. And after all the training and socialising in the world, that is just her. We just work with it.

Eg last night she decided the sofa was hers and nobody else’s. She is sulking with me today but now we are very clear it in fact does not belong to her.
		
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I can be quite often found explaining that I actually have the receipts for everything


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## P3LH (15 October 2021)

Parrotperson said:



			I bet she has the RSCPT (Royal society for prevention of cruelty to Tank) on speed dial! I mean she's clever enough to use a phone.....😂
		
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She is lucky she isn’t in the bin today, let’s put it that way! Wouldn’t surprise me if she could teach herself to use the phone, she knows to nudge the remote to turn the tv off and does this frequently - usually when being ignored for a ‘lucky not to be in the bin’ behaviour.


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## maisie06 (17 October 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			a friend of mine had a rottie who she fed on bakers complete and he was pretty uncontrollable,  her vet said to change to a different food and within 2 weeks he was much easier, she thought it was because he was more mature and changed back to bakers,   dog back to being a nutcase, vet was right!!!
		
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Bakers should be banned, absolutely vile stuff.


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## splashgirl45 (17 October 2021)

i think bakers is better now, they advertise no additives


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## YorkshireLady (22 October 2021)

Chappie is recommended by  vets often yet is always hounded on the dog forums or the websites on food content etc


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## CorvusCorax (22 October 2021)

Wet Chappie is good for dogs with sensitive stomachs because it is bland.


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## Birker2020 (22 October 2021)

TPO said:



			I know a couple with 3 cocker females and 1 dog. I don't know if they are KC registered but doubt all of the litters can be because they are back to back  breeding the females.

They have never shown, trained or competed their breeding dogs in any sphere so not performance dogs.

They are an older (late 60s) "respectable" couple in a nice country house but essentially they are just puppy farmers.

Just had 11 pups from one litter and they are 2k each.

They had multiple litters through lockdown too and their place was going like a thoroughfare
		
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Yes I know two people that are like that, one breeds labradors the other cockerpoos.  Forever posting that the bitch has had another litter of pups. I've seen the one dogs housing and to be fair there wasn't a hair out of place, excuse the pun, but its not the point. Its a get rich quick scheme and leaves all the other dogs stuck in cages at welfare centres for sometimes years.  It's so sad.


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## Birker2020 (22 October 2021)

YorkshireLady said:



			Chappie is recommended by  vets often yet is always hounded on the dog forums or the websites on food content etc
		
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Birmingham Dogs Home recommended it for our rescue years back, the one with tripe.  Yuck the smell was dreadful but I know its good for sensitive tummies.


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## MurphysMinder (23 October 2021)

Just seen the latest way to sell puppies,  large sign tied to traffic lights "Labradoodle puppies  for sale " and a mobile number !


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## AdorableAlice (23 October 2021)

MurphysMinder said:



			Just seen the latest way to sell puppies,  large sign tied to traffic lights "Labradoodle puppies  for sale " and a mobile number ! 

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It is getting common, I am seeing whole litters unsold and prices tumbling, so every which way will be being used to shift them.


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## splashgirl45 (23 October 2021)

saw an ad the other day for older  kittens, must be gone as now have another litter...talk about a production line


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## AdorableAlice (23 October 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			saw an ad the other day for older  kittens, must be gone as now have another litter...talk about a production line 

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Just send the intelligence to the LA licensing dept.  It is a licensable activity under the selling animals as pets, but breeding cats is not.  Unlimited fines and 52 weeks at HM pleasure.


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