# ADVICE NEEDED - IS MY MARE IN FOAL!?



## staceyryder (3 September 2011)

Hi Everyone,

Just looking for as many opinions as possible on this... I have a mare who i have now owned for 8 months and she is starting to look asthough she is going to drop a foal 

The shape of her belly has changed alot recently more so behind and below the ribs. I have also found out after doing some digging that it is possible she may have been kept with a stallion in sept of 2010 for a two week period although nobody is sure if she was covered. So it is possibility that she could almost be ready to drop. She has had 2 foals previous with past owners. 

Although she has not yet started bagging or waxing up, she is displaying other noticable signs that suggest she may infact be in foal. Apart from now looking huge and on side of her belly appearing larger than the other, She has more recently started to show colic like signs including pawing at the ground and laying down and getting up, aswel as rubbing her bum on the wall lifting and swishing her tail often, the past 4 weeks she has also began resisting the urge to go forward whilst being ridden and also showing discomfort when the girth is fastened. She is nagging with her head alot when stood in the stable, something which she has never done before. Today she has been overly affectionate and has pestered me more than usual, just wanting to be stroked and has had her head lounged over my shoulder heavy eyed. She is eating,drinking pooing and urinating as usual.

I am having her scanned this week for my own piece of mind but would like your opinions based on the pictures of her currently which i will post as soon as i have worked out how

All thoughts apprieciated!!


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## staceyryder (3 September 2011)

Here are a few pictures for you all to decide!


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## noodle_ (3 September 2011)

possibly.

but for just about the drop id expect her to be bigger?

if im honest - she looked like mine did when i thought she could have been - but she was just fat!!... (no offence to yours!)

If shes not pregnant - id be upping her work load a little ;-)


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## staceyryder (3 September 2011)

This is the confusion im having, FAT OR FOAL i should have called the post haha! She has been in full work 5-7days per week since jan 2011, which could expain why she isnt as big as she should be, i do agree she doesnt look big enough to drop! 

Although since jan, considering her routine she has still gained weight. She is not over fed and there is not much grass on our fields, she is out a few hours a day although not every day and stabled of a night!


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## laura7981 (3 September 2011)

Its hard to tell from the pictures..she is on the large side though. Have you tried using a human pregnancy test on her? A friend of mine did this when she suspected her mare was in foal and it was positive!


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## staceyryder (3 September 2011)

No laura ive not tried it, would defo be a cheaper option for me if it works tho haha! i dont fancy trying to catch some of her wee


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## JanetGeorge (4 September 2011)

staceyryder said:



			I have also found out after doing some digging that it is possible she may have been kept with a stallion in sept of 2010 for a two week period although nobody is sure if she was covered.
		
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If she was covered at the end of September, then she would be 'due' roughly 7th September - though of course 'normal' could be a few weeks earlier of later.




			Although she has not yet started bagging or waxing up, she is displaying other noticable signs that suggest she may infact be in foal. Apart from now looking huge and on side of her belly appearing larger than the other, She has more recently started to show colic like signs including pawing at the ground and laying down and getting up, aswel as rubbing her bum on the wall lifting and swishing her tail often, the past 4 weeks she has also began resisting the urge to go forward whilst being ridden and also showing discomfort when the girth is fastened.
		
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All of these could be signs she is heavily pregnant - although most could just indicate she is uncomfortably fat.  The bag certainly doesn't indicate much - for a mare in such 'robust' condition I'd expect it to be larger - and in mares close to foaling, the teats almost always point outwards.  I would also expect her to have dropped condition along the top line as well.

Only a scan will tell for sure - but from appearance, I would say probably not, although I do have one VERY 'traditional' Irish Draught mare who always looks as if she is suspiciously fat - rather than pregnant - until 2 weeks before she drops a rather dainty foal!


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## eventrider23 (4 September 2011)

Personally on looking at her i would say no but as JG says the only way of knowing for certain is to get a vet out to exam her - whether they scan or just do an internal exam as at this stage the foal would be easily felt.  If you are really concerned i would get the vet out as then you can know one way or another and can change her routine accordingly.


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## Sportznight (4 September 2011)

Having foaled the a couple of TB's that we were convinced were not in-foal, despite covering dates, preg scans at all the right days and an Oct first check  all confirming they were in-foal, it was only the vet's rectal examination at 10ish months that confirmed that there was still something in there.  These mares had the tiniest of foals and didn't bag up or milk until after foaling, one foal needed a supplementary milk balancer, as the mare never did bag up properly.  

So on that, I would say that only your vet can say for sure!


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## staceyryder (4 September 2011)

Thanks guys, she is having an ultrasound tomorrow, she has everybody on the yard kidded if shes not! There is no reason why she should have gained weight if she is not carrying as she is exercised regular and is not over fed. 

I do agree that she does not look big enough to drop but certainly think that there could be a little foalie in there too! She is so hard to judge, i think everytime i see her that her belly has grown even more.

Tomorrow will reveal all i suppose


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## Lila (4 September 2011)

Foal all the way stace. But suppose im the bitch who put your mind in overdrive anyway lol


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## Alexart (4 September 2011)

I think you're very sensible to get her scanned, it is better to find out and get everything ready than be surprised or loose the mare!  By the way human pregnancy tests only test for human hormones not horsey ones so don't waste your money!!!  Let us know how she gets on!!


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## foxy1 (5 September 2011)

Oh yes please do update us!! My money is on not..... but then I've had 2 surprise foals so don't ask me


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## staceyryder (5 September 2011)

Yes 'Lila' your opinion is not wanted you have me on permanant paranoia with her  haha. 

This afternoon she is being checked so il come back and update, she needs checking either way as she has not been herself at all the past few days and is laying down alot but struggling to get up 

Place your bets 
xx


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## Thistle (5 September 2011)

Looks like you have a BOGOF there! 

Fingers crossed the answer is whichever you would prefer.


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## domane (5 September 2011)

Can't wait to hear the verdict now.....


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## foxy1 (5 September 2011)

We need an update.......!!!


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## Aidey (5 September 2011)

Suspense is killin me....


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## emlybob (5 September 2011)

So?  Come on we're all waiting to hear!!


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## Monkers (5 September 2011)

I reckin she's too busy foaling that mare to be chatting on here!!!


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## Thistle (6 September 2011)

we're still waiting!


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## elephant (6 September 2011)

Keep coming back to check this thread, hope everything is ok x


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## staceyryder (6 September 2011)

Hi guys really sorry to keep you all on the edge! Got in late last night

The vet came out with her LEG ultrasound  and could see if any fetous fluid or a foalie was in there because she only had a 3cm view of the tummy, so she went on to do a rectal exam and could only find one ovary, suggesting she could be in foal, she also found an 'abnormal growth' on the right side which could be assosiated with a foal too but unfortuantley her arm was to short to reach over.

So i have been told to treat her asthough she is in foal, i am no more concerned over if she is not in foal then there is something not right inside , i asked about the possibilities of it being colic related and the vet assured me it was of too big of a scale to be realted to colic. 

I am having blood tests done on her tomorrow to see if that sheds any light because of course if she isnt in foal now i need to find out the reason why shes been acting so perculiar!


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## Thistle (6 September 2011)

I think you need a second opinion from an experienced repro vet


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## staceyryder (6 September 2011)

I am quite frustrated with the outcome now i feel astho im in a worse situation that before! Now shes either in foal or not in foal but has another problem  but then i keep coming back to the fact she couldnt find the right ovary but they are also supposed to be extremley tricky to locate, ahhh!


I just dont know what to do, not a happy girl


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## Flyingbuck (6 September 2011)

Think you have your answer from Thistle - would have to agree need second opinion from experienced repro vet - even if not in foal, I would want to know exactly what was going on asap, all the more so as this mare only has the one ovary - leaving her could have very serious repercussions.


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## eventrider23 (6 September 2011)

If she was in foal she would be close to due date and so the vet should be easily able to feel a pregnancy as the foal would be rather large.  It COULD be a false pregnancy.


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## staceyryder (6 September 2011)

Of course, which is why she is having blood samples taken tomorrow to rule out foaling at least, this will then mean if she is not in foal she can be examined further to try and see if there is another problem developing


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## foxy1 (6 September 2011)

Why weren't blood samples taken today?


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## staceyryder (6 September 2011)

The vet has been in contact with the lab firstly to see if we will detect the correct levels of hormones to see if the blood test would be worth while, because if she is in foal she would be ranging from 8-11 months the vet thought that because of this bloods may have been unaccountable to go by.

She has arranged to visit tomorrow morning


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## 4faults (6 September 2011)

Change your vet after this stace, I think it could be a case of what we were talking about earlier


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## foxy1 (6 September 2011)

well if the vet can't feel an 8-11 month gestation foal then you really need to change your vet!


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## Alexart (6 September 2011)

Ditto the above, if your vet is not competent enough to feel an 8-10mth old foal then they really need to go back to vet school!!!! - the vet should be able to shake hands with it at this stage!!!


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## staceyryder (6 September 2011)

Im told if the foal is at this stage then they can be difficult to feel as they sit lower down and can be sometimes out of reach, however im not atall happy with the professionalism of the practice concerned as i called to speak to a different vet and was informed it was infact a student who has made the visit to my mare,

WHAT A JOKE. i have lost faith! Blood tests tomorrow :|







 4/9/11







 6/9/11


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## emlybob (6 September 2011)

Shocking that a mare that is potentially 8-11months pregnant can not be detected by a vet.  Now you have found out it's a student i hope to god ur not paying for that visit.

I wouldn't personally bother with blood tests just a repro vet that knows what they are doing would be helpful


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## staceyryder (6 September 2011)

I have already paid for this visit as it was pay on the day, the only thing this vet has offered is to not charge a call out charge to take blood tests. This whole thing is now extremley frustrating


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## jessikaGinger (6 September 2011)

Sound Very stupid ...But..

Have you watched her belly, mainly around the back end & under near the teats
When it was suggested my mare was pregnant i stood back to look at her and all of a sudden it looked like she had an alien in there and after that i was posative 

Sure enough i got a little BOGOF about 2months later


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## Spellbound13 (6 September 2011)

Hope you get an answer soon


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## staceyryder (7 September 2011)

Thank you spellbound, me too, off to the yard to have her bloods taken soon hopefully wont take long for the results to come back with answers. Feel so sorry for her getting poked and prodded when it all could of been sorted in the one day 

Will let everyone know what they show up, i will not be using this vet again that is for sure


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## JanetGeorge (7 September 2011)

staceyryder said:



			Im told if the foal is at this stage then they can be difficult to feel as they sit lower down and can be sometimes out of reach, however im not atall happy with the professionalism of the practice concerned as i called to speak to a different vet and was informed it was infact a student who has made the visit to my mare,

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It can be difficult to actually find the foal when they're low down - but there's a hell of a difference between a pregnant uterus and an empty one. . Frankly, if a vet allowed a student to rectal one of my mares - even right in front of him - without my express agreement then I would be reporting him to RCVS!  And students should NEVER be sent out on their own! 

DON'T pay the bill - tell them you will be reporting them to RCVS - and find a new vet!


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## eventrider23 (7 September 2011)

TOTALLY agree with JanetGeorge - my vets can come in and tell you whether a horse is likely to be pregnant just from the feel of the uterus at 14 -16 days farless as late as your mare is!  Written complain would be going to practice and the RCVS!!!


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## Ladylina83 (7 September 2011)

Ditto Janet George and change your vet !! Having a student to do stuff like this is baaaadd 

Keep us updated x

PS I'm going for is in foal


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## noodle_ (7 September 2011)

after recent pics - i change my mind.... im going for foal lol!!


p.s - pls report them to the RCVS !!! thats discusting sending out a student - alone!!!!


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## domane (7 September 2011)

Did they say how long we.... I mean YOU... would have to wait for the results of the blood test???


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## staceyryder (7 September 2011)

Lol, they were taking this morning and were apparently posted off straight away so the lab should receive them tomorrow and are fairly quick, im hoping by friday i will have a definate answer, the vet said they will ring me when results are faxed over but obviously im gunna case them until then


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## staceyryder (7 September 2011)

And also i am confident that the vet seen to my mare was not a student but in fact newly qualified, still you would imagine they would send a more experienced vet out to handle such a situation. Thank you for everyones advice on this matter!!


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## ischa (7 September 2011)

I'm going to say a defent yes to being infoal


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## Maesfen (8 September 2011)

Well just be warned that when a blood test was done (in a December so should have been nearly 7 months in foal) on my mare which was out on loan to a vet nurse many moons ago, the results came back as negative so she was left out on the banks to be a wild woolly pony with no additional feed other than hay until she was taken back to the stud in March for her free return.  Yes, you've guessed it, she was in foal!  According to her vet a positive could also be a negative but a negative is always a negative!  Proved him wrong!  I've only ever trusted scans or manual confirmation since.
I hope detection has improved since then for your sake but if she's so close to a probable date I'm amazed that you haven't seen foal movements at some time.  A good time is while they're relaxed and eating, just wait and watch quietly away from her for anything up to half hour and you should see them playing football in there - if they're there of course.


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## MurphysMinder (8 September 2011)

I'm pretty sure students aren't allowed to go out to clients unaccompanied, even in their final year, so I would definitely be having words with/ changing your vets.  It it was a nqv they should have made sure they had plenty of repro experience, which they may not have had if it was not a particular interest of theirs.  (My daughter took her self off to USA to spend time studying repro because she wants to specialise in this.)


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## staceyryder (8 September 2011)

I will definately look into it further and find out, either way i feel i have been messed about more than enough 

MAESFEN - How long did you await the results of you bloods tests to come back? i have been told that the rate is 95% sucessful although you can still get false negatives its rare much like human pregnancy tests, im hoping if she is as far as 8-11 months her hormone levels should be high enough to detect wether she is, although when they are nearer to foaling the levels drop again :| 

Ahhh!  id have better luck having a go of rectaling myself and having a good old root round LOL


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## Maesfen (8 September 2011)

Sorry, can't say as I didn't have them done.  You could certainly ask the vets to request immediate notification by fax or email though which would shorten it a bit.


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## Alec Swan (8 September 2011)

What I don't understand is,  that *if* your mare's in foal,  and to be honest I'd have my doubts,  then why a *competent* vet can't feel the foal by hand and by rectal examination,  is beyond me.  During the advanced stages of pregnancy,  so I'm told,  scanning is not the preferred testing system,  but hand contact is.  That's how we test cattle.

Looking at your mare,  she really is *very *well!!  The forming of a bag,  could either be a false pregnancy,  or fat deposits.

As others,  I'd like to hear the outcome.  Good luck!!

Alec.


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## PolarSkye (8 September 2011)

staceyryder said:



			Ahhh!  id have better luck having a go of rectaling myself and having a good old root round LOL
		
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Have to admit (without appearing to have a very norty mind) that I had to read this twice . . . you did mean:  "I'd have better luck if I gave my mare a rectal examination myself" . . . rather than "I'd have more luck rectaling myself" . . . right?

Made me smile though.

Hope you figure out soon whether your mare is in foal (or not).

P


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## staceyryder (8 September 2011)

PolarSkye said:



			Have to admit (without appearing to have a very norty mind) that I had to read this twice . . . you did mean:  "I'd have better luck if I gave my mare a rectal examination myself" . . . rather than "I'd have more luck rectaling myself" . . . right?

Made me smile though.

Hope you figure out soon whether your mare is in foal (or not).

P
		
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HAHAHA  YES! That is indeed what i did mean, made me LOL too 

I hope i figure out if she is soon too ive rang the vet no blood results back yet.

Im close to bloody giving up


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## jessikaGinger (8 September 2011)

Any new im dieing to know


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## staceyryder (8 September 2011)

Nope no news yet, im hoping they are back before 3pm tomorrow or il have the weekend to wait too  

The more i wait the more i think shes not in foal, shes nowhere near big enough to drop and the dates she was with the stallion dont make sence as she would be getting ready to foal any day now

Never the less here is some vids of her letting off some steam after a few days off, you may be able to get a better view of her tummy on this, quality isnt too good tho and she doesnt keep still for long!


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## jessikaGinger (8 September 2011)

Not to scare you But.. somedays i would look at mine and she would look slimmer than the gelding in the field next toher, next minute she would look like shes carrying twins

She may have a small foal or be keeping it well hidden

i will watch the vids when im home, good luck either way


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## Ladylina83 (8 September 2011)

After seeing that I still think she is !


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## staceyryder (8 September 2011)

**Im sure i can see a point forming on this side but im beyond paraniod now!**




















She is still bigger on her bay side im thinking!


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## staceyryder (8 September 2011)

Ladylina83 said:



			After seeing that I still think she is !
		
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Well theres no changing your mind now 'ladyLina' you have placed your bet!! 

Although i change mine every two seconds!!


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## Camel (8 September 2011)

I reckon an 'Up the Duff v Down the duff'  Poll is needed, I'm going for UP!!! 


xxx


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## staceyryder (8 September 2011)

Yes i agree 

She better had be after all this, i cant decide i keep doing the hokey cokey! she is she isnt she is she isnt, may aswell have just flipped a coin


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## elumpshie (8 September 2011)

hey i agree i say a yes have you tried placing your hand just down from her udders you should be able to feel foaly moving about xx


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## staceyryder (8 September 2011)

elumpshie said:



			hey i agree i say a yes have you tried placing your hand just down from her udders you should be able to feel foaly moving about xx
		
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She wont let me touch under her tummy for long and definitely wont tolerate any pressure on it, as ive tried she just moves away from me and tries to kick, also cant get near her udder region! i sat an watched tonight for a while and although i can see some movement its not very much - if there is a foal in there, the only way to explain it is to relate it to a cramping movement?

She seems very aggitated tonight she keeps tossing at her hayledge and moving away from it only to go back to it again, shes also started having frequent but short wees!

we may not have to wait for these blood tests to come back


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## SusannaF (9 September 2011)

Maybe we should work on names...

Peekaboo? 

If she gives birth this week, that vet student will never live it down...


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## staceyryder (9 September 2011)

I am livid with this vets, ive just rang to be told that it will be no sooner than monday before i have any results! 





I may aswel of not bothered with the vet atall!! Not a happy girl


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## emlybob (9 September 2011)

You don't seem to be having much luck with your vets.  What's their reason for not having the results today?


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## Allover (9 September 2011)

God the suspense is killing me here!!!! 

Is there not a repo vet in the area you could get out?! WE need to know!!!


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## staceyryder (9 September 2011)

I give up on this vet - bloods were taken wednesday morning and sent off straight away - i know it does take a few days but was led to beleive i would have a result today, now i have the weekend to wait and still no gaurentee that by monday i will have results. 

There is another vet i could take her too ive now been reccommended towards but its not pay day until 28th and by that time i would expect to see a foal or not 

Completely give up on the whole guessing game now  never the less i will keep you all updated, ive had more help off everyone on here than a vet practice that has just done the hokey cokey wasting my time money and putting my horse through irrelevant stress to come back to the 'inconclusive' result.

Thank you for everyones concern xxx


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## domane (9 September 2011)

Perhaps you should just try the old-fashioned ring test whilst waiting for the official result.......


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## staceyryder (9 September 2011)

Blood tests have come back negitive, been told to put her on a strict diet for a month and if there is still concerns to get in touch..

The 'abnormal growth' that was found during the rectal examination has completely been fobbed off


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## Thistle (9 September 2011)

I would now be looking for a full rectal scan, to check out uterus, abnormalities etc. Refuse to pay call out, after all that's what you asked for the first time when they brought the leg scanner.


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## BallyshanHorses (9 September 2011)

Have you got a reputable equine reproduction vet that you could use that will be able to scan for foal and check out the abnormality at the same time.Our vet was telling us about a mare that had a haematoma next to the uterus caused by the trauma of foaling but they kept an eye on it and it healed over time.Could be something as simple as that or nothing at all.Either way I would be getting a professional.


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## staceyryder (14 September 2011)

She is booked into see a reproduction specialiast at the end of the month, although im still not convinced there is no foal in her tummy...


Discharge from her vulva and wax like beads (small) have formed on her teats

until october is here i would not be atall surprised if i go to the yard and see two in her stable!


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## Alec Swan (14 September 2011)

staceyryder said:



			She is booked into see a reproduction specialiast at the end of the month, although im still not convinced there is no foal in her tummy...


Discharge from her vulva and wax like beads (small) have formed on her teats

until october is here i would not be atall surprised if i go to the yard and see two in her stable!
		
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If there are wax like beads on her teats,  *now*,  then your reproduction expert will almost certainly be a bit late.

Could you take an up to date pic of her bag,  and vulva?  From what you say,  your mare's *very* close to foaling.

Alec.


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## staceyryder (14 September 2011)

Alec yes i will upload shortly, dont have any from today with the small bead like waxing that has just appeared on her teats but do have some from a few days ago where there is white dots you may recognise if you have had mares in foal before?

Will upload shortly for you all to see, i feel like a paranoid wreck!


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## Alec Swan (14 September 2011)

White crystallised dots,  aren't wax.  They're a natural occurrence, and tend to be around the neck of the teat itself.

Wax tends to hang as drips,  and from the milk exit holes.  CURRENT pics of her bag would help.  

Alec.


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## staceyryder (14 September 2011)

These are pictures from 2 days ago, her teats have changed in appearance since will get some more tomorrow - She hasn't developed a bag although as previously stated she has had two foals in the past, unfortunate i do not know her foaling history.


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## emlybob (14 September 2011)

Sounds and looks like u may be right.  I expect she is in foal and as Alec says possibly not far off, although i would expect her bag to get bigger yet


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## Aperchristmastree (14 September 2011)

Well from the more recent pictures of her belly I would say she is pregnant.  
If not, she is extremely fat with very little reason to be as you said.  Whatever happens raise hell with your vets for displaying complete incompetence and a lack of professionalism.


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## JanetGeorge (15 September 2011)

staceyryder said:



			Discharge from her vulva and wax like beads (small) have formed on her teats

until october is here i would not be atall surprised if i go to the yard and see two in her stable!
		
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Blood test aside (and the test CAN give a false negative in the last week or two before foaling) - I'm in two minds about your mare.  The wax beads could suggest imminent foaling - but the lack of a decent bag in a mare that 'big' would dispute it.

A slight discharge from the vulva would suggest imminent foaling - as would the elongated vulva - but there's no real slackening off of the vulva.

What is she like either side of the spine - on the rump?  A mare close to foaling will go soft on a line parallel to the spine at the back of the rump (if you get what I mean.)  The best way to see (and feel) it is to stand immediately behind her, and put one hand either side of her spine - about 4-6 inches away from the spine - and run your hands back along that line towards the tail.  If you feel a soft continuous 'dent' - either side - that's a pretty good sign she IS close to foaling!


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## Magicmadge (15 September 2011)

I have two mares that had  foals in 2009. One mare, her udder never really went back small. She is a good doer and often looks like she is pregnant. Her bag looks like your mares and her teats are fat and look like they are full  of milk. She also has a swollen area in front of her udder. Both my mares get the llttle crysalised secreations in the opening of their teats same as in your photo, neither are back in foal. Both have easily expressed fluid.  My vet saw her recently and said it is often a symtom of being overweight. When did your mare have her last foal?


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## MarinaBay (15 September 2011)

My mare looked just like yours a day or so before foaling - her bag never got any bigger! Will be an interesting few weeks I imagine. Can't imagine the mixed emotions you are feeling.


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## staceyryder (15 September 2011)

Magicmadge said:



			I have two mares that had  foals in 2009. One mare, her udder never really went back small. She is a good doer and often looks like she is pregnant. Her bag looks like your mares and her teats are fat and look like they are full  of milk. She also has a swollen area in front of her udder. Both my mares get the llttle crysalised secreations in the opening of their teats same as in your photo, neither are back in foal. Both have easily expressed fluid.  My vet saw her recently and said it is often a symtom of being overweight. When did your mare have her last foal?
		
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MagicMadge have your mares always had this on her teats? This is not something which my mare has ever displayed before i do not know if she is expressing any fluid as she will not let me touch her teats to try her. My mare had her last foal in 2009, so if she is not in foal this will be her second year empty.

JanetGeorge- I will upload pictures of her back end for you too see, she has become really tucked around the flank in the past few days looking like she needs an extreme wormer!! She is not due, her bottom mucsels around her tail bone have not relaxed as of yet but she is quiet a nervous natured mare so as soon as you touch her she tenses, her thigh area looks sunken however.

MarinaBay - It is awful as i dont know if i am doing the right thing by her or not!!

Thankyou for everyones help... i wish october would hurry itself along so my mind can finally rest!


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## MarinaBay (15 September 2011)

If she is happy then I wouldn't worry to much if she has had a foal or two before she will no what is going on. What will be will be now, just keep a close eye on her which I imagine you are doing! 
Is there a stud near to you that could pop up and have a look? Give you some advice?


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## staceyryder (15 September 2011)

Sadly not  i have been keeping her in light work incase she is just fooling me with her obese apperance!!


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## MarinaBay (15 September 2011)

staceyryder said:



			Sadly not  i have been keeping her in light work incase she is just fooling me with her obese apperance!!
		
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Don't beat yourself up about it! It is only light work - not like you have been off hunting with her. It is better that she is fitter. I hope you get an answer soon!


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## Maesfen (15 September 2011)

I'm very surprised that you have seen no foal movements yet if she is in foal TBH.  If you look long enough when she is quiet (eating, resting or grazing) you should see something other than their normal breathing even in mares that do keep things quiet just before they're due.  You might have to wait up to half hour to see movement though, are you being patient enough to wait that long?


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## staceyryder (15 September 2011)

Maesfen said:



			I'm very surprised that you have seen no foal movements yet if she is in foal TBH.  If you look long enough when she is quiet (eating, resting or grazing) you should see something other than their normal breathing even in mares that do keep things quiet just before they're due.  You might have to wait up to half hour to see movement though, are you being patient enough to wait that long?
		
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Yes maesfen i have sat and watched her and although i can see movement in the lower region of her belly - at the back end of her ribs it is not a movement which screams their is a foal in there... this would if she is carrying be my first foal so i feel i dont even know what im looking for to warrent what i see!

Spoken to the vet about the discharge she is experiencing and she has just commented that it may just be a normal factor of her cycle if she is coming into season and to monitor her tempruture, considerding she has not had a season since folaing first time round i am hessitant to believe


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## eventrider23 (15 September 2011)

If she has not had a season since her last foal then a) there is no way she could be in foal now as would have to be in season to conceive and b) there would definitely be something very very wrong with her if not cycling which could be explained by the unknown mass the vet may have felt.  If this is all the case I would honestly not be hesitating to have her looked at by a true repro specialist.  As much speculation and advice as can be given on here, no one is either a vet or seen her in person and so you really need to get a specialist to come and look - even if it means travelling her to them if you are this worried.


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## staceyryder (15 September 2011)

eventrider23 said:



			If she has not had a season since her last foal then a) there is no way she could be in foal now as would have to be in season to conceive and b) there would definitely be something very very wrong with her if not cycling which could be explained by the unknown mass the vet may have felt.  If this is all the case I would honestly not be hesitating to have her looked at by a true repro specialist.  As much speculation and advice as can be given on here, no one is either a vet or seen her in person and so you really need to get a specialist to come and look - even if it means travelling her to them if you are this worried.
		
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She has not shown any 'normal' behavioural changes to indicate she has had a season for certain during her time with me (jan 2011) which could suggest she may be in foal. Although previous owners have stated she has not had a season since foaling with her first offspring, im sure you can appreciate that often you do have to be open minded with the information that is sometimes given from previous owners as not be naive. 

The vet has assured me that not having a season after foaling however in cases are very normal and sometimes the mares system just needs restarting, although it is unconcerning. However considering the facts and knowing that before i bought this mare she was taken on trial to people who wanted her for breeding from their stallion at home - it seems unlikey they would have considered trailing her if they were concerned she had not had a cycle and would therefore not take to the stallion in question.


I have been advised by the reproduction specialist that i have coming out to examine my mare to wait until the end of the month to note any changes in my mares attitude/behaviour/interests in all traits so that all things can be considered during the visit.


Given all of the information regarding my mare i have been advised by the specialist that it is unlikey there is not something very serious wrong as suggested, which explains the inimmediate intervention. 

I have not hesitated to schedule this appointment or seek proffesional advice and if advised by a vet that it was a matter of urgency for her to be seen i would like to feel that i have put across that i would not hesitate to take such action. 

She is not displaying any worrying symptoms that such a mass if not a foal is causing her ill health momentarily.

Although i know nobody on this forum is a vet or can give professional advice as such - it is also nice to have peoples varied opinions given their horse ownership experience on my mares situation.

I will repost if my mare does foal or give details of the through examination she will be receiving from the reproduction specialist. 

I hope not to have offended with this post or equally portrayed i have used this forum to diagnose my mares discussed issues - as this is very far from the truth. All the interest i have received has been kindly appreciated.


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## Spring Feather (15 September 2011)

staceyryder said:



			The vet has assured me that not having a season after foaling however in cases are very normal and sometimes the mares system just needs restarting, although it is unconcerning.
		
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Was this your usual vet who told you this?  Because it is not very normal, it's abnormal for a mare to not come into season after foaling.  Some mares may have heats that are difficult for their owners to see but that's not the same as saying it's normal for a mare not to come into heat.  If any of my mares did not come into heat after foaling I would know there was something very wrong and would be having it checked out immediately.  It could be something as relatively "simple" as a uterine infection or it could be something far more worrying.  Either way it would be checked.

There is certainly something going on with your mare but is she pregnant, I don't think so but time will tell.


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## staceyryder (15 September 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Was this your usual vet who told you this?  Because it is not very normal, it's abnormal for a mare to not come into season after foaling.  Some mares may have heats that are difficult for their owners to see but that's not the same as saying it's normal for a mare not to come into heat.  If any of my mares did not come into heat after foaling I would know there was something very wrong and would be having it checked out immediately.  It could be something as relatively "simple" as a uterine infection or it could be something far more worrying.  Either way it would be checked.

There is certainly something going on with your mare but is she pregnant, I don't think so but time will tell.
		
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The reproduction vet has assured me that he is not concerned something is 'very wrong' although he will cover all aspects of her reproduction system during his visit and any concerns will be further investigated. He will also assess the 'mass' that was deemed abnormal during her rectal by the previous visit from the initial vet.  He is highly recommended and specialised in this area so i feel i trust his diognostics for the time being. 

You have the added advantage of recognising your mares behaviours and traits, sadly because this is my first 'season' with my mare i have nothing to compare her cycles too to recognise any changes from her usual processes


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## eventrider23 (15 September 2011)

I was only trying to offer some advice so I hope you didn't take it as me telling you off at all.  Some mares cycle very quietly and so it is hard to tell if in season however that said, I have had loads of mares in that I have been told the same that they never show in season but once I have got to know them very very few don't show any changes...it is just keeping an eye for them.  I am genuinely surprised a repro vet would say not having a season is normal after foaling as this is very very much not normal though.  How long ago did she last have a foal???


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## JanetGeorge (15 September 2011)

eventrider23 said:



			Some mares cycle very quietly and so it is hard to tell if in season however that said, I have had loads of mares in that I have been told the same that they never show in season but once I have got to know them very very few don't show any changes...it is just keeping an eye for them.  I am genuinely surprised a repro vet would say not having a season is normal after foaling as this is very very much not normal though.  How long ago did she last have a foal???
		
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Ditto this!  I have had mares come to the stallion - we scan and SEE what is happening.  The stallion is 'interested' but mare shows bu**er all!  And variations on the theme!  I had two mares - who I know well as they are on their 4th and 5th foals for me and this year we missed 3 cycles because they went from: "I might be interested tomorrow" to " ******* off - yesterday was as good as it got!"  We ended up AI'ing them as neither is a mare you would want your stallion approaching if they were not fully receptive!

But it is NOT normal for a mare not to cycle after foaling!  She may not stand - either because she is immensely foal proud, or because her oestrogen levels are low, but she WILL cycle - even if silently!

As for the mass, it is almost certainly a haematoma from a bad foaling.  I had one mare who developed one the size of a football after a bad foaling and a bleed into the broad ligament!  A year later, it was the size of a squashed tennis ball!  She cycled happily!


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## Spring Feather (15 September 2011)

I often forget how lucky I must have been when I first embarked upon my horse breeding debut decades ago as I had such super people around who were willing to show me, teach me and help me with what I see as really basic stuff nowadays.  They never seemed to tire of the questions asked by me.  Many of those questions were probably very silly indeed but these people still took the time to encourage my learning.  Nowadays the internet is available to almost everyone and if new breeders are being given information which other experienced breeders are saying is not correct then it is so easy to check on equine reproduction sites to confirm who is talking sense and who is not.  OP before you meet the repro vet at the end of this month it would be well worth your time to read as many well-respected equine reproduction sites online so that you have all your questions lined up for this gentleman.  You could be well enough versed at least to know whether he is the real deal or another spoof.


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## BeckyCandy (10 October 2011)

Any news on your mare?


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## emlybob (10 October 2011)

I have also been wondering what happened to this mare and if there is any news


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## BeckyCandy (11 October 2011)

Yes I followed this thread closely without comment wondering whether there was a foal if not if she was okay?


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## Spellbound13 (21 January 2012)

Has she foaled?


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## Little Alfie (6 March 2012)

BeckyCandy said:



			Yes I followed this thread closely without comment wondering whether there was a foal if not if she was okay? 

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Same here,
Any news Stacey

We have a similar situation, and being new to all this would be interested to know the outcome.


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## ru-fi-do (21 June 2012)

Were there ever any update for this thread?


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## Clippy (22 June 2012)

She is my friend on FB and her mare wasn't in foal


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