# Children on yard by themselves



## julie07711 (17 April 2013)

Does anyone think its wrong to leave their two children who are 12 and 14 alone on the yard and in the school with their new horse?

The reason im asking is i have a friend who has two daughters and they have just purchased a new horse and the horse is on a small livery yard. However the yard owner has said to my friend she shouldnt be leaving her daughters down there by themselves as they do not know the horse that well. 

The girls are very competant riders and have been around horses since they were very young.

I do actually agree with yard owner,but then im not a horsey person.


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## paddi22 (17 April 2013)

I used to be dropped at my yard in the morning and picked up in the evening by my parents, when i was 8 with my 14.3hh first horse! Back then no one thought anything wrong with it. there were a few of us with ponies and lots of adults around. 

The logical part of my brain says that if i had a kid, i would be more cautious, but then there's another part that says kids have been messing around unaccompanied with horses for centuries. Of course accidents happen, but we all escaped unharmed and we used to run wild. My horse was a nutter and we used to play jousting with each other and knock each other off with brooms! Some of my happiest memories are from that time, being free from parents watching.


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## ruth83 (17 April 2013)

It is not a question of their capability. It is a question of their age. If the YO does not want to take responsibility for them then they are perfectly within their rights to ask that they are accompanied at the yard.


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## criso (17 April 2013)

I know a couple of places where it was a condition of the insurance that there were no unsupervised under 16s.


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## nikicb (17 April 2013)

When I first saw the title of this thread I thought you would be discussing 8/10 year olds.  I think that experienced 12/14 year olds are more than capable.  At 15 I was left in charge of a small yard for the day while the YOs went off to shows etc.  My now 16 year old son 'does' our yard when he is not at school and has done for 3 years now.  Although it is at home I am not always around.


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## hnmisty (17 April 2013)

I used to help out at my first riding stables when I was 10-11ish. Sometimes I'd be left on my own at the yard as the YO would go to her house, and all the pushy girls who helped out (or "helped out" would go with her. My mum  was NOT impressed that I was being left on my own. Although she is a real panicker, bless her. 

I always assumed she was worried I was going to be kidnapped! (My dad always assured me that if I ever was, I'd be promptly returned with an apology note and some money!)


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## ruth83 (17 April 2013)

nikicb said:



			When I first saw the title of this thread I thought you would be discussing 8/10 year olds.  I think that experienced 12/14 year olds are more than capable.  At 15 I was left in charge of a small yard for the day while the YOs went off to shows etc.  My now 16 year old son 'does' our yard when he is not at school and has done for 3 years now.  Although it is at home I am not always around.
		
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As was I, but I also know a lot of horsey 15/16 year olds who I wouldn't leave alone with a tamagotchi, never mind a horse.


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## skint1 (17 April 2013)

When my daughter was 12 she'd ride her bike down to the farm after school and see/ride her pony. I'd come and collect her and the bike when I finished work a couple of hours afterward.  She knew the pony and the farm very well.  The farmer was usually around (though not horsey) I thought she was safer there with her pony than on the estate, but that was over 10 years ago now so I guess things change


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## nikicb (17 April 2013)

ruth83 said:



			As was I, but I also know a lot of horsey 15/16 year olds who I wouldn't leave alone with a tamagotchi, never mind a horse.
		
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Totally, I think it depends on the child.  I was incredibly responsible at that age (I have a younger sister with learning disabilities and responsibility came early to me) and my son has had it drilled into him.  I will forego the clean and tidy yard for the fact that he will notice if one has a slightly puffy eye, droppings are a bit loose etc.


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## sidsmum (17 April 2013)

ruth83 said:



			It is not a question of their capability. It is a question of their age. If the YO does not want to take responsibility for them then they are perfectly within their rights to ask that they are accompanied at the yard.
		
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This, if they are left on their own then responsibility will ineveitably fall upon whatever adult is around be it the YO or another livery.


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## martlin (17 April 2013)

I'm a YO and I don't allow unsupervised under 16s on my yard, capable or not is really not the issue, it's simply age - I am not prepared to take responsibility for somebody else's children. It's an insurance/litigation nightmare.


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## SecretAgentBilly (17 April 2013)

I'm 15 and I'm not allowed to stay at the yard by myself due to insurance, if I have a friend with me or anybody is there it's fine. If there wasn't this rule then I would stay by myself, but then I trust my pony a lot!


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## ILuvCowparsely (17 April 2013)

One of my youn ones is left alone.  Our contract says children should be supervised , but that applies to visitors not liveries 

 we also have a clause to say we are not responsible for accidents


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2013)

From the age of 6 I lived at the stables during the holidays, we rode and led the ponies in headcollars from the field up the lane to the yard.

By 12, I was taking groups of tourists out trekking with another 12 year old.

Seems like another age now, no one ever seemed to give a second thought. Can't imagine many kids getting that freedom or responsibility now.


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## Booboos (17 April 2013)

How would people feel if the YO went off for the half day to do whatever  and the children were entirely alone?

For me if the answer is that an adult should have been supervising them, then it's the job of the parents to do so or arrange childcare, not the YO's responsibility.


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## julie07711 (17 April 2013)

I shouldve added,sometimes the yard owner isnt around and the girls are left by themselves,but in my friends defense what is she meant to do,spend the whole day at the yard just so she can supervise her Daughters,surely that defeats the whole object of the girls having fun with their horse as i know my friend cant just stand around all day doing not a lot.


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## SO1 (17 April 2013)

Personally I don't think parents should leave their teenagers on the yard expecting them to be looked after or kept an eye on by other adults without asking those adults if it is ok, some YO are fine with that as they don't mind keeping an eye on the kids, others are not.

It is a big responsibilty to look after other people's children and I think the other issue is that sometimes it is difficult if the teenagers get a bit lively or excited and then an adult that is not their parent or guardian has to ask to them to act in a calmer way, some parents don't like other adults telling their children off.

Also what happens if the child has an accident? I think some people feel uncomfortable with unsupervised children as they then feel responsible if the child has an accident even if they have not been asked to keep an eye on the children or the parents get angry if the child has an accident and blame adult liveries for not keeping an eye on the children.

I think school holidays are a difficult time as if kids are left on the yard then they are more likely to unsupervised as adults liveries may be at work.


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2013)

But does a 14 year old need adult supervision ? 

Is the mother assuming someone else should babysit the youngster, or, does she believe the girl quite capable of being responsible for herself and her sister ?

 If either has an accident, surely, who ever was around would do exactly the same as they would for another adult- give first aid and call a relative.

There are some 14 year olds I wouldn't leave for 5 minutes to go to the bathroom, but, if this mother has made the judgement that these particular children are mature enough be around their pony without a parent, could she just be right ?

Last yard I was on was virtually run by the 15 yr old daughter of the owners. She was incredibly mature, very competent and did a great job.


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## Elsiecat (17 April 2013)

It never fails to amuse me that people say that 12/14 year olds need supervision etc and then in the next tread you read about how children these days are spoiled as their parents spent all day helping at the yard with them. Seems to me parents and kids can't win.

A 14 year old shouldn't need supervision unless something is very wrong.


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## Rouletterose (18 April 2013)

From the yard owners point of view I think most of them would not want the responsibility of other peoples children left at the yard, also from insurance point of view then over 16 is the usual cut off point for insurance companies. The yard I am at will not allow children under 16 unsupervised and the said child has to be supervised by the parent, not other liveries.

Accidents happen no matter how responsible the child and under 16 is still a child in the eyes of the law, I would not want to leave my child under the casual supervision of anyone else, if parents cant be bothered to supervise their own children then there is something wrong and they should send their child to an approved riding school rather than buy them a pony and then leave them to their own devices at the yard all day while they disappear doing their own thing. 

From the point of view of the other liveries it's not really fair on them either if there were to be an accident, I dont want the responsibility of someone elses child and sometimes you cant relax and enjoy your own horses because you can see there is an accident waiting to happen, far better to be able to say 'oh its ok his/her parent is with them' and you can forget about them and enjoy yourself with your own horse/s which is how it's meant to be.


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## SCMSL (18 April 2013)

From 12 to 16 years old, I spent my Summers at the Yard. Mom would drop me off around 8 a.m. before going to work and would pick me up around 7 p.m. I had my group of friends and we all had so much fun - those were probably the best summers of my life! We never had any issues with anyone and would be more than happy to help people out - we would muck out, clean the horses, turn them out... and when some very nice owner invited us for a hack, it would be an awesome day!

I think this sort of stuff is exactly whats missing in today's kids - the freedom to be somewhere without their parents, to learn how to handle stuff themselves, to actually be out in the real world learning and working for a goal.

I learned a lot about horses, but mostly about people. I learned how to handle the politics at a yard, how to talk to older people, how to be humble... my kids will definitely be dropped off at the yard if they wish so.


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## madmav (18 April 2013)

I am so glad I was young when I was and not in these days.


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## MerrySherryRider (18 April 2013)

Out of interest, would any of you allow a 14 year old to meet a school friend to go shopping, swimming or go to the cinema or do you escort them on all activities ?
 Would you leave her at home alone while you went shopping ?

 I'm not critical but genuinely surprised that so many of you feel a 14 year old needs supervision by a parent and wonder where your cut off point is.


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## Elsiecat (18 April 2013)

^what horserider said. 

As a side note, at 14 they are 2 years off college and a hell of a lot of freedom. You have to let them grow up at some point!


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## criso (18 April 2013)

I'm another one who spent all day at the yard from the age of 10 but that was a different time, my parents were unhorsy so wouldn't have been any help,  if fact they couldn't be left to hold a 14 2 pony unsupervised.

The point isn't whether the child  is competent or not, it's that the yard insurance may stipulate that there are no under 16s unsupervised.

If it's your own land or yard that's different and you can leave alone or supervise depending on how  capable they are but on a commercial  yard  you have to go by the rules.


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## SCMSL (18 April 2013)

Yep, my mom is non-horsey and she can't even brush a horse's mane, so she would be no help at all. In my personal case, it wasn't so long ago - I'm in my mid 20's.

As for the yard's insurance, that must be discussed with the child's parents and has nothing to do with what's being discussed here - the ethics involved in leaving a child unattended around horses. If the insurance doesn't allow it, then there isn't even a discussion - it just cannot happen.


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## tinap (18 April 2013)

I've no problem with ages of the children, however of its a new horse then I think they should be supervised. It's in new surroundings & however calm & well behaved it may be I would still expect some naughtiness to happen in the beginning. 

I'm going through the same thing, although my daughter is older. We have a new horse (came 5 weeks ago) & she has been exceptionally behaved. However we are still getting to know her & her ways so I still go down to the yard with the daughter. I have just started littering about doing other things while she's riding but I'm there just incase.

At the end of the day, if the yard owner wants them supervised then they should be. It's her yard, her rules after all xx


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## criso (18 April 2013)

SCMSL said:



			As for the yard's insurance, that must be discussed with the child's parents and has nothing to do with what's being discussed here - the ethics involved in leaving a child unattended around horses. .
		
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I think I interpreted the OP's query differently, the YO had requested that the kids not be left unsupervised.

Ethics and opinion may not come into the yard owner's request.


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## Pippity (18 April 2013)

I know when I was twelve, I went out of my way to NOT do anything my older sister told me, so I certainly wouldn't be relying on the fourteen-year-old to supervise.

I'd let a twelve-year-old go into town on their own, but I wouldn't let them ride without somebody there to have issues escalated to - and the fourteen-year-old doesn't count.

If the YO doesn't want to be that person, I can totally understand. My YO is willing to supervise under-sixteens occasionally but certainly not as a regular thing. She has too many other things to be doing, a lot of which involve her being away from site.


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## ReggieP (18 April 2013)

horserider said:



			From the age of 6 I lived at the stables during the holidays, we rode and led the ponies in headcollars from the field up the lane to the yard.

By 12, I was taking groups of tourists out trekking with another 12 year old.

Seems like another age now, no one ever seemed to give a second thought. Can't imagine many kids getting that freedom or responsibility now.
		
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Fully agree ! The UK has become a country of namby pambies, that trys to regulate to remove every risk from all walks of live.  If its not the 'elf and safety excuse, its the insurance excuse or the media scaring us with their stories of crime.

The problem is that this creates over-protected unadventurous childen, and paranoid parents and above all slows innovation and invention.

How on earth would we have invented the car or the aeroplane in today's climate of grey suited regulation.


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## ruth83 (18 April 2013)

As most have said - some 14 year olds are very capable and responsible, there is no problem there - others are stupid and reckless. I caught 2 girls (16 and 14) going to fetch their ponies in from the field in their socks the other day as their feet were 'too hot in boots'. 

As a yard owner, how do you police that? 'I am happy that x comes to the yard unsupervised but not y'? Major argument ensues. 

YES, insurance spoils, or makes difficult, a lot of things for us nowadays. It has become this way because of the actions of a few. We have to deal with the fallout from this. 

If there is a problem, find a yard where the YO is happy for them to be unsupervised and take that risk. Otherwise, follow the rules!


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## RFido (18 April 2013)

I think the answer to something like this depends completely on the individual children and the horse/pony they will be with...

I have ridden since I can remember, probably since I could sit up straight. I remember having my first mobile phone at age 10, because I used to hack in the woods on my own. Sometimes I would go out in the morning and be back just before my tea at night. However, that was with a pony I could trust with my life, that hacked over and under the motorway without batting an eyelid, was actually pretty lazy, and knew the area very very well! Also, times seem to have changed in the last 10 years... My mum used to do the same as me when she was that young... But now I don't think I would feel comfortable letting my little 9 year old cousin do it (and she rides the same pony as I used to!!!!)

If they are on a yard, maybe give them their freedom when there is someone else knocking around to keep an eye on them, or help out if they get stuck on something.. If they are confident and competent, they should be fine; But you can never be too careful xx


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## Victoria25 (18 April 2013)

As 13 year olds we all helped out at weekends at a very large riding school - we used to bring all the ponies in first thing headcollars only, no hats and used to gallop them through the fields jumping streams - loved it  that was a long time ago though before H&S wasnt really an issue


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## SCMSL (18 April 2013)

ruth83 said:



			I caught 2 girls (16 and 14) going to fetch their ponies in from the field in their socks the other day as their feet were 'too hot in boots'.
		
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That was sort of stupid, yes, but I doubt they could've died from going to get the ponies in their socks... the worst thing that could've happen was they got stepped on. And so what? I am pretty sure they would learn a lesson, and 5 days later would be fine.

Kids need to make mistakes, to do silly stuff, and to learn from those situations! 

I think if you are concerned about insurance, just have the parents sign a document stating the yard is not responsible for the child's security. This way, if something does happen you have a legal document exempting you from the responsibility.


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## Tammytoo (18 April 2013)

If the YO doesn't want unsupervised youngsters on her yard I don't blame her.  Accidents happen and in today's litigeous (sp?)and H&S society she could be landed with a hefty bill if anything went wrong.

Personally, I wouldn't want to leave my son or daughter with a new horse.  Even the best horses can be unpredictable until they have settled into their new surroundings.


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## tinap (18 April 2013)

^^^ exactly what I said. It's a new horse & they don't know it, that's where my concerns would lay, not with the ages of the children xx


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## monte1 (18 April 2013)

Interesting topic, I had totally unhorsey parents and back in the eighties, (god now I really do feel old!) I too was a totally horse-mad child who got dropped off at the stable yard very early all summer with a packed lunch and stayed there all day with my friend- unsupervised. we had the most wonderful times and probably did lots of things we shouldn't-- but, we survived the ponies all survived and hopefully, it has made me the sensible responsible person I am today .  With my own daughter who has been around horses since she was tiny- I have left her at the yard all day while at work from the age of around 11, with the yard owners permission, of course! She is now 14, confident, very independant and (I hope) responsible! I am perfectly happy for her to be at our current yard alone to ride and do the horses.  I know she knows what she is doing and there are always people around if she has a problem. ( they also know that I am happy for them to take her in hand and tell her off if the need arose. (although thankfully it hasn't yet!) I also always make sure she has her mobile with her, something we never had . I guess times have changed and it does depend to some extent on the child,  but, I hope that by giving our children some of the freedom we had they learn to become good, respectful responsible adults.


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## monte1 (18 April 2013)

Victoria25 said:



			As 13 year olds we all helped out at weekends at a very large riding school - we used to bring all the ponies in first thing headcollars only, no hats and used to gallop them through the fields jumping streams - loved it  that was a long time ago though before H&S wasnt really an issue 

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LOL ....love it! I did that too and much worse as a child!! I remember running up to my grazing pony in the field to vault on over his bum, next moment I was sat on the ground on my bottom and he had legged it up the field without me !!! happy days!


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## Jools2345 (18 April 2013)

a group of 12-15yr olds (mine included) have camped in the field with my horses at the diy yard, they set up the tent, fence round it  and take a bbq, my biggest fear is that they will come home with food poisioning

with out being prompted they take buckets and fill them from the water trough and also put the disposable bbq in a metal wheelbarrow before lighting it.

that said if the YO does not want anyone at the yard unattended its their call and you have no choice but to negotiate or do as is required.
i have left my daughter at the yard since she was 12, i do not expect anyone to take responsibility for her, 

however if she fell off or got hurt i would expect others to help her out but thats nothing to do with age, i fell off i would expect help too. as it turns out my daughter is called on to hack out with all the nervous and young horses/ponies and riders and she makes me very proud as all the adults on the yard tell me how polite/helpful and responsible she is and how nice it is to see a youngster look after the horse herself.

being left on the yard has nutured this responsibility and ensbled her social skills to develop


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## Aarrghimpossiblepony (18 April 2013)

I think it has to do with the changing demographic as well as health/safety concerns.

Judging by a lot of posters here, they were the first in their families to be "horsey" in the 70's/80's/90's which coincided with many families moving out of the centre of cities to the suburbs. 

Now it's those generations who are dominating the livery yards ect. as they did when they were children/teens.

Back in the 70's/80's if it weren't for the unaccompanied children at RS and livery yards, those places would have either ceased to function or be deserted wastelands.

Did we have accidents?
Of course, but we were a lot more capable of bouncing and people should keep that in mind when they have taken a fall post 30yo and are lying in an miserable heap wondering why they are seeing stars.


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## monte1 (18 April 2013)

Jools2345 said:



			a group of 12-15yr olds (mine included) have camped in the field with my horses at the diy yard, they set up the tent, fence round it  and take a bbq, my biggest fear is that they will come home with food poisioning

with out being prompted they take buckets and fill them from the water trough and also put the disposable bbq in a metal wheelbarrow before lighting it.

as it turns out my daughter is called on to hack out with all the nervous and young horses/ponies and riders and she makes me very proud as all the adults on the yard tell me how polite/helpful and responsible she is and how nice it is to see a youngster look after the horse herself.

being left on the yard has nutured this responsibility and ensbled her social skills to develop
		
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Sounds like a wonderful set up. I agree it does help them learn to grow up,  I also get plenty of compliments on how helpful and polite etc my (very grumpy when at home) teenager is at the yard and it always makes me smile!


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## Elsiecat (18 April 2013)

ruth83 said:



			As most have said - some 14 year olds are very capable and responsible, there is no problem there - others are stupid and reckless. I caught 2 girls (16 and 14) going to fetch their ponies in from the field in their socks the other day as their feet were 'too hot in boots'. 

As a yard owner, how do you police that?
		
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How would have have 'policed' it if they were adults doing that?


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## ILuvCowparsely (18 April 2013)

Booboos said:



			How would people feel if the YO went off for the half day to do whatever  and the children were entirely alone?

For me if the answer is that an adult should have been supervising them, then it's the job of the parents to do so or arrange childcare, not the YO's responsibility.
		
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^5 to this.

A YO is not responsible for babysitting someones kids


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## julie07711 (18 April 2013)

...


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## julie07711 (18 April 2013)

I certainly do not think the mum is expecting anyone to babysit although i didnt realise 14year olds need babysitting


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## RainbowDash (18 April 2013)

I have met many youngsters who are pretty sensible for their age and to be fair they need the freedom.  Yes they may do silly things - who hasn't at this age?  If their parents think they'll be fine then so be it.  

But I'd take the YO's rules into consideration - if they are happy with the arrangement and the youngsters are sensible and respectful of others on the yard then I don't see a problem.


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## PolarSkye (19 April 2013)

We have a lovely (and very mature) 12-year-old on our yard who is routinely dropped off by parents and left to sort out her (first) horse by herself.  Although she has had her horse for a while (about a year), she has only been taking care of him herself for the past three months or so as he was previously on working livery at a riding school - so you could say she is quite novice-y.

She is sensible.  Horse is sensible.  None of us mind looking out for her.  She comes with many of us to competitions and clinics (with her horse).  One livery took her hunting for the first time.

I guess the point I am making is that some 12-14-year-olds are perfectly capable of being responsible when left alone.  

P


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## MerrySherryRider (19 April 2013)

The most stupid people I've met on yards have been adults not teenagers. YM bringing pairs of horses in flip flops. Owner unable to get his horse out of the field without letting my horse out onto a public road (3X). Owner going into the field with a bucket of food, getting mugged, causing a skirmish and kicking by a group of horses. The list goes on.

 At least with a teenager, you can say, 'hey, that's not safe'. Adults can be a little more resistive to advice.

 The lovely 15 year old on my current yard will listen if she gets something wrong but usually, she manages her pony quietly and competently, unsupervised. Her step father how ever needs babysitting as with him, the pony gets loose and runs all over the yard.

A few years back, the kids at an old yard used to camp in the fields all summer, they had a great time, one used to be dispatched to collect piles of bacon sandwiches from home and they were left in blissful freedom for weeks on end.

 Well behaved youngsters do not need babysitting, badly behaved youngsters and adults do.


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## ruth83 (19 April 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			How would have have 'policed' it if they were adults doing that?
		
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Sorry, I meant how do you police which are the responsible ones and which aren't rather than the fetching in without shoes. In this case they were read the riot act (firstly they were told it was unsafe and they needed to put their boots on, when they were flippant and said no they were read the riot act). I would expect adults to be treated the same way.


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## Frosty89 (19 April 2013)

I've been on yards before where insurance doesn't cover children if they are unaccompanied.

There is a 12year old girl on my yard who comes down most days on her own and I couldn't believe her age when she told me. She is really mature and very helpful. She is always helping bring horses in, muck out and other chores. 

As horserider said, I find some adults more difficult. People don't like being told they are doing something wrong.


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## ILuvCowparsely (19 April 2013)

julie07711 said:



			I certainly do not think the mum is expecting anyone to babysit although i didnt realise 14year olds need babysitting
		
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Who said anything about a 14 year old??  (looks at her post)


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			Originally Posted by Booboos View Post
How would* people feel *if the YO went off for the half day to do whatever and the children were entirely alone?

For me if the answer is that an adult should have been supervising them, then it's the job of the parents to do so or arrange childcare, not the YO's responsibility.
		
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.

The above poster was speaking generally  people, I have not read all the post I read it to be any aged child including young one.

 My comment said "  
"*A* YO is not responsible for babysitting someones kids "   *A yard owner  *any yard owner is not responsible for babysitting any kid


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## sav123 (21 April 2013)

A friend of mine who has a small livery yard had a similar situation last year.  A family of novicey mum, non-horsey dad and 12 & 13 year old daughters moved with their new horse  new as in delivered to yard by the dealer.   On that first afternoon after seeing the horse into its stable, the parents left and the girls were left on their own with it.  The parents hadnt said they were leaving  my friend just happened to see their car disappearing down the drive!

The next couple of days set the pattern  the girls were dropped off and then picked up later, and the mum was giving the impression that in school holidays she would just dump them at the yard all day (she hadnt asked my friend if this would be possible when they looked round).

Because its only a small yard, my friend has another job elsewhere so there are a few hours during the day where there is unlikely to be anyone on site as it is mainly adults on the yard who came up around work times .  She had said to them when they looked round that it wasnt the sort of yard where there was always someone around.  At the time there were 2 other children who shared a pony, but they were never left on his own, so the issue hadnt come up before.

As it turned out the girls were fairly competent, but they were also extremely lucky in that the horse was an absolute diamond and didnt put a foot wrong.  The family actually moved the horse after a couple of months as they got a space at a yard where there were other girls the daughters knew.  This was before the school holidays so my friend didnt have the worry of leaving them alone on the yard. 

Some of you who are saying you leave your children at the yard sound like it is either your own yard, in which case you already know your animals and that your children are safe to be alone with them, or that your children have had their own for some time and so can now be left.  In this case, no-one knows the horse  not the new owners nor the yard owner.  Even though you know your children are capable, would you just leave them with a strange horse that none of you know?  

What experience have the daughters had?  Is it a new horse as in first horse after having had ponies or first horse as in never owned before?  Have they shared or helped at eg, a riding school and therefore had some stable management experience or have they only ever ridden and not done the care side?

Did they know the yard/YO previously?  If not, then the YO has only got their word on how much they know and if it were me (a YO in a previous life!), I wouldnt be comfortable with it either until I had got to know the horse and the family and was confident that everything would be ok.  Also, would you as parents just leave your children in a strange yard with people and horses you dont know on day 1?  

If the girls are to be left all day in the holidays and the parents are happy to leave them there on their own with no adults around, is there enough for them to do?  For example, with my friend above, the parents just assumed their girls could help on the yard.  Friend has a very set routine in order to get everything done before she leaves for her other job, and doesnt have time to be supervising children.  (She was able to accommodate it at weekends sometimes, if she wasnt competing and had the time to supervise them properly.)  Also, are the girls able to get home independently during the day if they want or is it the case that once theyre there, thats it until the mother finishes work?

A lot of you are reminiscing about the good old days when you spent all day at the yard without your parents, but as children, you wouldnt have necessarily been aware if the YO/other adult liveries felt that they were therefore responsible for you and if they were entirely happy about it.  One woman at my yard sees it as her child-free me-time and therefore would not be wanting to feel she then had to be keeping an eye on someone elses - even if you hadnt been directly asked to or wasnt expected to, like any of us, as a responsible adult you cant help but feel you have to keep an eye on them and that then detracts from the time you spend with your own horse.

Apologies for such a lengthy post, but I feel its not quite as black and white as some people seem to think.

Tea and scones to welcome all the new owners!


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## Jools2345 (21 April 2013)

sav123 said:



			A lot of you are reminiscing about &#8220;the good old days&#8221; when you spent all day at the yard without your parents, but as children, you wouldn&#8217;t have necessarily been aware if the YO/other adult liveries felt that they were therefore responsible for you and if they were entirely happy about it.  One woman at my yard sees it as her &#8220;child-free me-time&#8221; and therefore would not be wanting to feel she then had to be keeping an eye on someone else&#8217;s - even if you hadn&#8217;t been directly asked to or wasn&#8217;t expected to, like any of us, as a responsible adult you can&#8217;t help but feel you have to keep an eye on them and that then detracts from the time you spend with your own horse.  




			the rest of your post is (for me) not relevant, i dont and have never expected anyone to keep more of an eye out for my daughter than they would for another adult.
does this also apply to any novice owner who may do things that are wrong or unsafe, in that others feel the need to be responsible for them? or indeed young or difficult horses.

shall we request that all novice owners/young owners/owners of difficult or young horses are supervised at all times?

i will always help anyone who needs it, whether they are young, old, novice, plain stupid or disagreeable even if they are not from my yard and TBH i would expect the same from others.

stop adding to the nanny state by trying to police the rest of society.

i like most have done many many stupid things in my time and most of them i have learnt from.

but today i hacked out my 6yr old that has only been backed 12wks alone, i did not tell anyone where i was going and i rode on main roads over the a12, along a footpath under the a12, over a small concrete bridge and through a ford. it was great but it could all have gone horribly wrong-so was that stupid? i dont think so as i want a horse that will go anywhere alone and in company and to get that risks have to be taken at some point. or i could just go round and round in circles in a manege
		
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## Luci07 (21 April 2013)

Jools2345 said:





sav123 said:



			i will always help anyone who needs it, whether they are young, old, novice, plain stupid or disagreeable even if they are not from my yard and TBH i would expect the same from others.

stop adding to the nanny state by trying to police the rest of society.

i like most have done many many stupid things in my time and most of them i have learnt from.

but today i hacked out my 6yr old that has only been backed 12wks alone, i did not tell anyone where i was going and i rode on main roads over the a12, along a footpath under the a12, over a small concrete bridge and through a ford. it was great but it could all have gone horribly wrong-so was that stupid? i dont think so as i want a horse that will go anywhere alone and in company and to get that risks have to be taken at some point. or i could just go round and round in circles in a manege
		
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Actually I think you were wrong! Would it have been that big a deal just to let someone know where you were going and for how long?! I do when I hack out solo and most people do on the yard. You see, I have been the one who has to go looking when a friends horse came back without her and if we had not known where to look, it could have been a long search.

The whole question of children at yards would come down whether the children really are fine on their own or whether the parents are treating the yard as a child minding service.  We have a couple of young girls in the yard and their parents don't dump and run. Yes they might go off when the girls are riding and come back later to collect them but the girls are now both well established with their ponies and competent.
		
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## Jools2345 (21 April 2013)

Luci07 said:





Jools2345 said:



			Actually I think you were wrong! Would it have been that big a deal just to let someone know where you were going and for how long?! I do when I hack out solo and most people do on the yard. You see, I have been the one who has to go looking when a friends horse came back without her and if we had not known where to look, it could have been a long search.

The whole question of children at yards would come down whether the children really are fine on their own or whether the parents are treating the yard as a child minding service.  We have a couple of young girls in the yard and their parents don't dump and run. Yes they might go off when the girls are riding and come back later to collect them but the girls are now both well established with their ponies and competent.
		
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thats my point we all have different opinions on what is acceptable and what is not,no-one one that yard tells anyone where they are going and as i came back one of the youngsters on the yard (12) was going out on her own, there was no-one on the yard when i left and as i came back she was leaving.
		
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## sav123 (21 April 2013)

Jools2345 &#8211; you don&#8217;t say how old your daughter is, but from your previous posts, it is obvious you have ensured she is competent to be left.   The bulk of my post wouldn&#8217;t have been relevant to you as it was in response to the OP and subsequent replies, regarding a family with a new horse on a new yard where there were so many unknown factors.

My last point is hindsight really.  As an adult, I have changed my riding plans so as not to leave a child alone on the yard (10 or 11 years old &#8211; I didn&#8217;t know the child/pony/family well enough to know if child really was ok to be left and YM was not around at the time to ask).  I wasn&#8217;t hovering over watching every move, but equally I wasn&#8217;t comfortable with leaving the yard even though I hadn&#8217;t specifically been asked to keep an eye out.  As a child, I wouldn&#8217;t have known if an adult had done this.

Luci07 has summarised the whole thing perfectly here:



Luci07 said:



			The whole question of children at yards would come down whether the children really are fine on their own or whether the parents are treating the yard as a child minding service.
		
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I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m &#8220;adding to the nanny state and policing society&#8221;.  I&#8217;m not advocating supervising everybody (child or adult) at all times and I&#8217;m aware everyone has to learn and like you, I will help out when needed.  Over the years I have met several children aged 14 and under who I would be quite happy leaving alone on a yard or letting hack out without an adult.  Equally I have met adults who I wouldn&#8217;t trust to look after a stuffed toy safely let alone a horse.

Maybe I've just got an over-developed responsibility gene!


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## Pearlsasinger (21 April 2013)

ruth83 said:



			It is not a question of their capability. It is a question of their age. If the YO does not want to take responsibility for them then they are perfectly within their rights to ask that they are accompanied at the yard.
		
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This.
If there are no parents on the yard, YO will have to be responsible for these children, for insurance purposes if nothing else.  YO obviously doesn't want to be a baby-sitting service.  And I can't say I blame her/him.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (21 April 2013)

Echoing above post basically.

As a YO myself (albeit DIY only) I've got a rule that no-one under the age of 18 is to be left on the yard by themselves. This is not only for safety but also to cover any child protection issues. 

Any YO with children on the yard unaccompanied is laying themselves wide open in this day and age. OK so in the old days we kids used to traipse along to the yard and basically haunt the place from dawn to dusk, without any issues or problems, but that was then and regrettably its just not a possibility to allow this to happen any more.

Plus the fact that YO's/YM's should NOT be expected to babysit everyone else's kids. It just isn't fair - why should they?


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## SO1 (21 April 2013)

I think it is different now and those who were left on their own on yards as children in the olden days were probably not completely on their own, there was probably an adult somewhere in the background or older teenagers around who could help out if necessarily.

I used to have ponies at home as a child and hacked out alone aged 11 but the amount of traffic we had was completely different then and my mum was at home not at work so she would know I had hacked over to my friends house to go for a ride with her and her pony.

Personally I don't think it is a good idea for a child to be left on their own with no-one else on the yard especially if their parents are at work and cannot be got hold of or come quickly if needed. Sadly I think we are in a sueing culture and I YO should ask parents to sign a disclaimer to say they won't sue if they are leaving their child unsupervised at a yard and there is an accident. In this day and age it is the parents I think that are more of a problem blaming YO if child has an accident that would put me off if allowing unsupervised children if I was a YO. In some ways children are more likely to have an accident as they tend to have less fears than adults and may take risks that adults might not take.

Of course most people would look out for each other when at the yard be it an adult or child but dealing with a child that has had an accident or doing something dangerous is often more difficult that an adult because you get the rath of the parents to have to deal with. It is not that I don't want to help children it is that I don't want to have some angry parents screaming at me if something goes wrong. As adults we are responsible for the risks we take but it is v difficult to be responsible for the risks other people's children take.

As in the example above about the kids without the boots the poster said she did not think it would matter if the kids got a  badly broken foot because one of the ponies stood on their foot as they were not wearing boots but the parents of those children might not take the same view if the kids ended up with a broken foot they would probably blame the adults for not stopping them.


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## rachyblue (22 April 2013)

julie07711 said:



			I shouldve added,sometimes the yard owner isnt around and the girls are left by themselves,but in my friends defense what is she meant to do,spend the whole day at the yard just so she can supervise her Daughters,
		
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Um yes. Stable yards aren't a crèche. Horses are dangerous animals and most premises insurance doesn't cover unattended children. If there is a mishap, the ambulance service will take a child to hospital by default if there is no adult to sign for them,even if they aren't severely injured.


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## glenruby (22 April 2013)

I and most of my friends were " alone" at the livery yard (/riding school) from the age of about 10/11. We could hack through the fields on our own ( to be fair, Im sure the yard owner would not have allowed us to if he had any worries about our safety though I doubt he'd have told us directly, instead getting us to ride out with him or join his lessons to keep an eye on us). We had limited road hacking and bridleways did not exist over there so there was no issue with hacking out etc - the farthest we could go safely is half a mile up or down the road - which was generally fine with him, but always at least 2 of us(single file). In general, we were fine to ride our own ponies without direct supervision but when riding young or predictable horses or ponies (or most of the horses belonging to YO) he would be about. The yard was closed (for lessons) one day a week and we were not permitted to ride on that day (IIRC adults were allowed but there were only one of two of those). Have always thought that was fair enough and would love to find a YO who cares so much over here.
ETA - there were a number of children of well off parents who were dumped at the yard to have 2-3 lessons during the day (usually school holidays) and I can remember him hating that as he was essentially being treated as a creche - these kids would have been 10-16yrs old but not experienced or safe to be around horses without constant direct supervision either on or off the horses.


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## Jools2345 (22 April 2013)

sav123 said:



			Jools2345  you dont say how old your daughter is, but from your previous posts, it is obvious you have ensured she is competent to be left.   The bulk of my post wouldnt have been relevant to you as it was in response to the OP and subsequent replies, regarding a family with a new horse on a new yard where there were so many unknown factors.

My last point is hindsight really.  As an adult, I have changed my riding plans so as not to leave a child alone on the yard (10 or 11 years old  I didnt know the child/pony/family well enough to know if child really was ok to be left and YM was not around at the time to ask).  I wasnt hovering over watching every move, but equally I wasnt comfortable with leaving the yard even though I hadnt specifically been asked to keep an eye out.  As a child, I wouldnt have known if an adult had done this.

Luci07 has summarised the whole thing perfectly here:



I dont think Im adding to the nanny state and policing society.  Im not advocating supervising everybody (child or adult) at all times and Im aware everyone has to learn and like you, I will help out when needed.  Over the years I have met several children aged 14 and under who I would be quite happy leaving alone on a yard or letting hack out without an adult.  Equally I have met adults who I wouldnt trust to look after a stuffed toy safely let alone a horse.

Maybe I've just got an over-developed responsibility gene!
		
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Maybe but this post seems more along the lines of my feelings, my daughter has hacked out alone since she was 11yr off road and since 13yr, she is still the only youngster at 16 on the yard that is allowed to hack out alone and some of them are nearly17yrs- all there horses they have are well behaved.

i supposed this topic rattles my cage as when we had 6 youngsters at the yard playing horse ball, gymkana games and generally having fun the yard owner who is in his eighties would sit with his wife watching them (the manege is 25ft from his conservatory) and say how happy it made him to see and hear them enjoying being at the yard and with their horses, he would also say how long it had been since they had had a young group that actually looked after their own horses.

then a couple of other diy people complained to me that the kids were riding their horses too much, these are people who have obese horses and are too scared to ride year after year. i lived on the farm at the time and they also complained to yo that they felt they had to watch (from the yard) my daughter (who was 15) as she rode round the farm, fortunately the yo told them to mind their own business as it was nothing to do with them,


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## Elsiecat (22 April 2013)

^who stops them riding out at nearly 17? YO or parents? Bizarre as they're nearly allowed to be in control of a vehicle with a lot more horse power than a horse!


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## Clannad48 (22 April 2013)

I think there are two main points here
1. If the yard owner does not want unsupervised under 16 are their yard then the yard owner is within their right to enforce it. I know that there are many mature for their age under 16s out there but there are some awfully stupid ones as well (and a lot of stupid adults as well)
2. Whilst in the 'good old days' we were allowed to come and go as we pleased the majority of parents (including mine) took the attitude that if I got hurt then I would be more careful next time. Nowadays however we are constantly told on tv, radio and pasperd that we can claim compensation at the drop of a hat. When my daughter had a bike accident four years ago we were constantly pressured by various companies to claim. Even four years down the line we still get calls.

IMHO yard owners rules are yard owners rules. End of story


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## Jools2345 (22 April 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			^who stops them riding out at nearly 17? YO or parents? Bizarre as they're nearly allowed to be in control of a vehicle with a lot more horse power than a horse!
		
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parents


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## showley1 (24 April 2013)

My 14 yr old twins spend alot of time at the yard by theirselves, due to working patterns it is just not possible for to spend all the time needed with them which is why they had to wait longer than most to actually 'own' their own, we did loan on a small private yard before but yo was horse owner and happy to 'look' after them,i took care of my own pony from age of 11,parents not horsey, i trust my girls to behave and yo to tell me if any problem, but certainly do not expect her, or anyone else to supervise or look after them as far as i am concerned they are my responsibility whether i am there or not. ( i am only 5 min away so maybe that helps?) Sometimes i have the kids to be more responsible than the adults, far 2 often the girls have given their own hay to ponies when they have been left without and knowing the owner not to return till morn, or filled empty water buckets (after checking board to no restrictions) , instead of pulling faces and bitching about it


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## mynutmeg (27 April 2013)

Generally I wouldn't have a problem with it as at that age, and competent riders then they should be fine however with a new horse I would want to supervise for the first week or two and then be around on the yard for another week or two until both rider and horse are comfortable with each other.


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## Queenbee (29 April 2013)

To be honest, whilst we have all been there and got the t shirt as kids being left alone with our horses or to help out on yards, I completely agree with YOs attitude.  I think the main point and probably where she is coming from is that she does not want to bes ultimately responsible for two children who are not hers.  Whilst they may be more than competent, they should be supervised.  If it were my yard I certainly would not allow parents to just drop their kids off and leave them unsupervised on my yard for the day.  I'd probably have a similar restriction to other yards in that anyone under sixteen must be supervised.  If something went wrong the parents would be the first to point the finger at yo


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