# owner/loaner rights



## EdithSparrow (26 July 2018)

Iv had my mare out on loan for about 2 months now havent seen or checked up its an offical loan with all the documents signed i have for the past few days been talking to the loaner about coming up to check shes okay and have a short ride (half an hour or so) she has been all fine with it but unfortunately couldnt do the times i could so said for me to ask the yard owner who would probably meet me so i asked if she was free on a certen day and if she would let me into the tack room she left me on read that i thought was a bit odd but i assumed she might of been busy. tonight i come back with a message saying hes okay with me coming to see if shes okay but not riding?  she thinks im just going to come and expect her to drop every thing for example a lesson or hack planned and let me ride that is not the case id of course work around them shes aying becasue its an offcial loan she dosent want me to ride but no where in that loan does it say thats an issue. i get where shes coming from but i live over 150 miles away usually and only in town once every 5 months or so so im really not gonna just expect a ride every week or anything like that iv even offered to pay to use the gallops there and id just walk her around it i just. What are my rights here can i go and see and have a small ride on my mare or can she stop me? iv double checked and no where in the loan does it say i cant or that shes the only one to ride her


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## JennBags (26 July 2018)

If your horse is out on full loan then I wouldn't think you'd have the right to ride, I'm surprised you think you do.


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## ihatework (26 July 2018)

Unless having access to ride was discussed and agreed as part of the loan upfront then it isn&#8217;t usually expected in a full loan. Access to check the horse obviously is.


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## Red-1 (26 July 2018)

If I had a horse on loan I would not expect the owner to come and ride. However, the owner would have had frequent updates and video etc. 

I would have thought visits would also have been pre-agreed.

Of course, if the horse is yours, then you do have the right to ride. However, the loaner also has the right to decide she does not want a part of such an arrangement and return the horse, if she feels you are being too invasive.


It is all about the horse to me. Have you had recent videos? Was the rider well equal to your horse? Do you suspect the horse has become defensive when ridden? 


Maybe you could arrange to visit when the loanee was going to ride, so you could see if they are getting on alright? If the horse looks happy with her riding I can't see why you would need to ride.


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## Theocat (26 July 2018)

Unless you agreed that you'd ride in advance, it will be both unexpected and unwelcome. 

I certainly don't think that the YO should be expected to hang around and oversee you riding - they are clearly very happy with checks and it isn't their fault you pass through so rarely, so I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to accommodate you.

If I were a loaner and the owner wanted to appear after two months of no visits and take the horse to the gallops, I wouldn't be happy!

Do the check, and forget riding, or you could damage the relationship with what sounds like a decent loaner.


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## MissTyc (26 July 2018)

The person "responsible" for the horse gets to choose who rides it, imo. 

I never rode my mare when she was off on loan & when I have loaned a horse myself I have reacted with extreme aggression at the suggestion that the owner's daughter should be allowed to sit on it. It's either on loan or it isn't.


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## Tiddlypom (26 July 2018)

She's been out on loan for 2 months and you haven't visited her at all in that time? 

The riding thing is purely between you and the loaner, it's unusual in a loan but it does happen. I wouldn't mind if it was me, but if the loaner is unhappy about you riding but you insist on it anyway, then she may return the horse, so be prepared for that.

However, whatever you decide, I suggest that you arrange to visit more frequently, as even what appear to be the best loans can go pear shaped.


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## HashRouge (26 July 2018)

She's still your horse, I really don't see why you shouldn't be able to ride her if you want to. I'm also surprised people think it is a problem. I rode my mare in both her loan homes. If the loaners had said I couldn't, I would have assumed there was something wrong (sore back, sudden behavioural issues...I'm paranoid!) and taken her back straight away. It's not like I was knocking on the door every few weeks asking for a ride, we're talking once in four months or so.


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## Gloi (26 July 2018)

To be honest I feel totally different about this. If my horse was on loan and they refused to let me ride it occasionally I would be suspicious about its welfare and be wanting it home. I'd like to know for myself how its behaviour and schooling was towards when it went away.


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## honetpot (26 July 2018)

Gloi said:



			To be honest I feel totally different about this. If my horse was on loan and they refused to let me ride it occasionally I would be suspicious about its welfare and be wanting it home. I'd like to know for myself how its behaviour and schooling was towards when it went away.
		
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  I have loaned out quite a lot, and the animal never belongs to the loaner and the owner retains full rights, and this is stipulated in the contract.  If its local I do drive bys and check them in the field, if I was refused admission to a yard at a reasonable time or for a planned visit I would be back with a lorry to take the animal away.
  As we have never wanted to ride something we have loaned out, I have never asked to ride, but you should have a good enough relationship with the loaner that you should be able to do it as long as its not interfering with their loan, but if you want to do it regularly it should be in the contract.
   If it was mine I would book a time to ride saying you want full access to your horse, tack and equipment and say they must inform the yard owner that you will be visiting. If they do not arrange this terminate the loan and visit with a lorry.
   I have only ever had one problem with a loaner and I questioned how the pony was shod, when they got really stroppy with me. I had also told them the pony was too fat, it turned out it had the start of laminitis and I thought I would not notice. It came home and went on a diet.


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## Goldenstar (26 July 2018)

J is on loan and I would not dream of expecting to be able to ride him .


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## conniegirl (26 July 2018)

I currently have a pony on loan and it is specifically stated in the contract that I need to give the owner or her nominated representative full access (including riding) for checks at a mutually convenient time.

however on a normal loan if it were not specified in the contract about riding then I would not expect the owner to ride the horse. I'd normally be open to them coming and doing so anyway but it would need to be at a time convenient to me as my yard owner requires me to be present if anyone else is riding the horse and all visitors to the yard have to be escorted everywhere.


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## Scarlett (26 July 2018)

I've had horses go out on loan, both on my existing yard and moving away to another yard. I didn't ride either when on loan and I wouldn't have expected to just say 'I want to ride'. If I had been visiting and I was offered a sit I would maybe have taken it but I wouldn't have assumed. To me it's respectful to the loaners who I trusted, were taking excellent care of my horses and who were paying all of the costs relating to the horse. In that situation they get a say in who rides, I do think they would have offered though, if it had come up.


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## SilverFilly (26 July 2018)

This shocks me. I bought my horse back in October and even now he is totally my responsibility, i love his old owner coming down for a visit and to ride just because he truly was the love of her life and she was forced to sell so I love showing her how well he's doing and how far hes come under saddle. I'm shocked people are so uptight about the horse being ridden once every few months by someone who still owns the animal...

EDIT: I am totally in support of backing off and putting ground rules in place if the owner is overbearing or interfering with any time that the loaner has to ride in the week. But its really not a major inconvenience and my horses old owner has always been more than understanding when I've said no because we have plans.


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## 9tails (26 July 2018)

OP, you could really do with some punctuation in your post.  

I think the question is, why do you want to ride?


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## teddypops (26 July 2018)

I think you should just go and check on your horse on this occasion, then arrange your next visit well in advance so you can both be there and you get to ride. The loaner sounds like she is trying to be accommodating and has organised for you to meet the yard owner as she cant be there when you can. If its the yard owner not wanting you to ride rather than the loaner then thats not really a cause for suspicion.
However, when I loaned my horse out I wouldnt have expected to ride him and when I had one on loan, the owner didnt expect to ride her.


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## zaminda (26 July 2018)

My old boy went out on loan regularly and I often rode him while they were on holiday to keep him going for a couple of homes. I wouldn't have expected it, and if you can't tell how a horse is going by watchi8ng, then you don't know it very well.
I had a horse on loan from a woman who couldn't do a thing with the horse. There is no way I would have let her ride it, letting her lead or touch it was bad enough, as she was incompetent, although as is often the case, thought that she wasn't the problem.
How far in advance did you arrange this visit? If it is last minute, then drop in and see the horse, think carefully about what you want from the arrangement, and go from there.
Be aware, if you get funny, they may hand it straight back, especially if riding wasn't discussed in the contract, I would have told the owner of the above horse to bring transport if she had insisted on riding. I wasn't a schooling service, nor am I in the habit of funding horses for someone else to come and ride when they feel like it.


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## Sophire (26 July 2018)

I wouldn't expect to ride a horse I had put on loan, nor do I think I would be happy to allow it if I did have a horse on loan, especially if I wasn't there and it was going to put people out.


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## honetpot (26 July 2018)

I assume that as this post is in competing and training its a relatively high value horse, then in that case I would definitely want to ride it when I went to see it if I was only able to visit every couple of months.
  I used to loan out schoolmasters, that came with a full set of instructions, tack and I paid routine vet bills. Out of all the loans only one person followed all the instructions included in the loan agreement, I would see most out with changes of tack and equipment, but as the animal was not likely to come to any harm I would let it slide. When they came home sometimes they would have to have two weeks boot camp.
   Even when I have sent animals away for breaking and I am paying and expressed what I would like doing as part of its basic training, which is mainly just hacking out, its not been done.
   A horse can be spoiled in just a couple of months, I have seen the most genuine horses spoiled by nagging hands, and repetition,  becoming nappy to the point of rearing. There is also the friend or instructor who decides it needs a gadget, a smack or even a good hiding, when really it just doesn't have a way out so has started to misbehave in protest.
 When you loan you place a lot of trust in people and unfortunately some however much they say how well they look after their animals, they don't. Then when it goes wrong the owner is landed with the bill and the heartache, probably when they can least do it the additional work. 
   My advice for loaning is never loan anything out that you can not take back with little notice, take anything anyone tells you with a pinch of salt, and if its high value or a young horse I would want to be checking it on a regular basis. A walk down the horse box lines at events can be most revealing on how people really treat their animals.


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## FestiveFuzz (26 July 2018)

I have my boy on permanent loan and can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen his owner in the nearly 2 years I've had him. That said, I send regular updates (often weekly) with pictures and try to keep her informed on what he's up to and how we're getting on as I know she loves seeing how our partnership has grown. She's never asked, but I'd have no issue with her having a sit on him if she wanted as at the end of the day she's still his owner.


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## HashRouge (26 July 2018)

zaminda said:



			I had a horse on loan from a woman who couldn't do a thing with the horse. There is no way I would have let her ride it, letting her lead or touch it was bad enough, as she was incompetent, although as is often the case, thought that she wasn't the problem.
		
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But since she owned the horse, I don't see why you would think it was your right to refuse to "let" her ride if she had wanted to. Short of threatening to end the loan if she did, what were your options? I mean, the horse belonged to her. 

I'm genuinely astonished that so many of you think it's completely unreasonable for the owner of a horse to have a quick ride on it in its loan home. I can understand the YO perhaps saying no if the loaner wasn't around, but can't understand why a loaner would say no.


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## CJoe (26 July 2018)

If my loan horse hadnt of been subsequently bought by me, I still wouldnt have let the owner ride it at the time if it was going to remain with me.  I had sorted out a multitude of issues and one ride would have been all it took to send things backwards.....fortunately, the owner at the time was fully aware they were not a good match and sold him to me.

Its a really hard one as now, horse is fully sorted, I would have no issue with old owner coming and hacking or whatever, but at the beginning I was putting in a lot of time, sweat and pain to turn said horse around!


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## splashgirl45 (26 July 2018)

i have a horse on loan and keep the owner updated with pics etc and she knows that  i am happy for her to come to the yard anytime to check on her whether i am there or not.  my YO  knows this as well....,,.  as far as i am concerned the horse is on loan to me and i would find it odd if the owner wanted to ride.  of course i would accomodate her but would think it was strange.   however i would not allow anyone else to ride her without permission from the owner as i am fully aware she is not my horse......


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## paddi22 (26 July 2018)

HashRouge said:



			But since she owned the horse, I don't see why you would think it was your right to refuse to "let" her ride if she had wanted to. Short of threatening to end the loan if she did, what were your options? I mean, the horse belonged to her. 

I'm genuinely astonished that so many of you think it's completely unreasonable for the owner of a horse to have a quick ride on it in its loan home. I can understand the YO perhaps saying no if the loaner wasn't around, but can't understand why a loaner would say no.
		
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If the horse is loaned out, then it's usually loaned out under a certain understanding between the owner and the loaner. I've never seen horses that are loaned out be ridden by the owner, unless its agreed at the start or specifically invited by the loanee. 

There could be a ton of reasons the loanee might be wary of it, in her position I would think:
- is she gonna be asking all the time now, why didn't she say it at the start of loan in the contract?
- I have the horse on a training schedule and it doesn't suit to have someone come up to ride. If its on a competition schedule then t might be the horses day off or you might be working on something and not want another rider confusing it with the old way it was ridden. 
- What does she even mean by 'ride it'? is it a hack., schooling it, jumping it?  Is she gonna judge my schooling and end the loan?
- Im not there and my yard owner doesnt want strangers  wantering into the tack room
- my yard owner doesnt want strangers riding without watching them, and shes up to her eyes at the moment
- the yard might be locked during day and reuire a key for entry, so yard owner would need to be there for the whole time the owner is there
- i wouldn't want the owner doing a 'oh she went much better in x bit etc' to me. 
- if the loanee is busy they mightnt want to spend their time chatting to the old owner and wasting a day

There are a ton of reasons. If i was a loaner id be a bit pissed. A good loan works because the owner picks a suitable loanee and then trusts them to take care of the horse, maybe checking up everynow and then tactfully.


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## ihatework (26 July 2018)

HashRouge said:



			But since she owned the horse, I don't see why you would think it was your right to refuse to "let" her ride if she had wanted to. Short of threatening to end the loan if she did, what were your options? I mean, the horse belonged to her. 

I'm genuinely astonished that so many of you think it's completely unreasonable for the owner of a horse to have a quick ride on it in its loan home. I can understand the YO perhaps saying no if the loaner wasn't around, but can't understand why a loaner would say no.
		
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It&#8217;s all very dependant on specific circumstances though.
I&#8217;ve loaned horses as an owner and as a borrower - the ones where I was the borrower I would always offer the owner a ride - but under my terms. I wouldn&#8217;t have been best pleased with I will be there on X date and expect to take it to the gallops / jump it / whatever especially if I was covering all financial costs.

However, if you were involved in loaning an expensive horse, it might be prudent to agree up front any riding criteria. 

There is also the circumstances when the owner is a horrific rider, the loaner might have significantly improved the horse and not want it ruined by the owner getting back on 

OP - in your shoes at this stage I&#8217;d arrange to visit ASAP (2 months is too long for a new loan IMO), then go back at a mutually convenient time to watch loaner ride if that is your concern. Then try and have a friendly conversation about you riding, but if they are a good home I wouldn&#8217;t push too hard or else you might find the horse coming back!


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## Surbie (26 July 2018)

I have a horse on loan and I keep his owner regularly updated with pictures and videos. She knows she is welcome to visit whenever she would like to. While I doubt she would want to ride him, he's her horse and I wouldn't quibble if she wanted to. She is going to see me ride him when she visits.

You say you live 150 miles away, are around 2-3 times a year so it's hardly the case that you will be popping aboard regularly. Even if it's in a competition home, the horse is yours not the loaner's. If they take it badly that you want to ride, are you ready to take it back?

For me, what might make it tricky if I am not there is access to the tack room, which is locked at all times and my horse's owner has no key. If she were in your situation, it might well be that access being an issue, as your loaner won't be there.


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## Sussexbythesea (26 July 2018)

I wouldnt expect to ride a horse Id loaned out. If I were a loaner and the owner wanted to ride it really would depend on our agreement and relationship. If the owner got funny about it Id say if you want to ride the horse take it away and pay for it because Im not paying to keep a horse for the owner to ride.


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## Theocat (26 July 2018)

I think Surbie is right about the access. The loaner was happy for you to ride at first: it is the YO who is absolutely rightly unhappy with an unknown person a) having access to the tack room, b) riding on their land or using their facilities, and c) understandably unwilling to babysit the entire visit. 

I think if you want to be requesting a ride, you need to be more flexible - it is not reasonable to have only one date when you happen to be passing through, and expect others to fit around you. 

If I were a YO there's no way in hell I'd let a complete stranger have the keys to my tack room and galivant around my facilities, even if it is your own horse! The loaner need to be there for those reasons alone.


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## ester (26 July 2018)

I'm genuinely a bit confused by the OP, you messaged the yard owner and she left you on read and then the loaner said no to riding? Or the yard owner sadin no?


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## MagicMelon (26 July 2018)

Theocat said:



			I think Surbie is right about the access. The loaner was happy for you to ride at first: it is the YO who is absolutely rightly unhappy with an unknown person a) having access to the tack room, b) riding on their land or using their facilities, and c) understandably unwilling to babysit the entire visit. 

I think if you want to be requesting a ride, you need to be more flexible - it is not reasonable to have only one date when you happen to be passing through, and expect others to fit around you. 

If I were a YO there's no way in hell I'd let a complete stranger have the keys to my tack room and galivant around my facilities, even if it is your own horse! The loaner need to be there for those reasons alone.
		
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This.


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## {97702} (26 July 2018)

I have a horse on permanent loan, I am very happy for his owner to visit as often as she likes (as long as I am able to be there!)  She has ridden him while I had him on loan, but she asked as a favour and did not 'expect' to do so

Apologies for specifically answering your replies HashRouge, but why ever do you think it is OK for the owner to ride the horse while it is on loan?  A loan agreement (in my view) hands the responsibility for care, upkeep and exercise of the horse over the the loaner or specified others.  It doesn't usually give the option for the owner to come along for a joy ride without being required to pay for any maintenance costs?

As an example, I couldn't see most owners agreeing to (for example) a friend turning up to ride their horse free of charge when they (the friend) felt like it?


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## Pearlsasinger (26 July 2018)

Surely it depends on what the contract says?  If there is no mention of the owner riding the horse in the contract then it is very much at the loaner's discretion and convenience, if at all.  If the contract specifies that the owner may ride the horse, it should state the frequency of those rides.  In that case the loaner should try to accommodate the owner.  If either party is unhappy about the arrangement, the loan may come to an end.


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## honetpot (27 July 2018)

You are loaning not owning, and the owner retains full rights, unless they have specifically said otherwise. 

Quote from BHs sample loan agreement, which is a good start that you can adapt to your circumstances. 
1.2	The agreement shall in no circumstances be interpreted or construed as an agreement for permanent transfer or any other purpose. 
1.3	It is agreed that that at no time is the Borrower the registered owner of the Horse and is not permitted to loan, lease or sell the Horse to any third parties.
1.4	The loan shall commence on [enter start] and end on [end dates] (the Period).
1.5	On the agreement of both parties the Period may be extended or renewed for a further period of time.
1.6	The Owner shall have absolute discretion to sell the Horse on whatever terms he/she sees fit without the agreement of or consultation with the Borrower, although this agreement must first be terminated. 
4.1.7.	allow the Owner reasonable access to the Horse at the address specified above at any reasonable time;

If I travelled a 150 miles and was not allowed access to my horse, and if I thought I needed to ride to asses whether was being cared for to my satisfaction, as far as I am concerned as the owner, wanting to ride my horse, that is my right. I wouldn't matter how good  a rider the loaner thought they were and how badly they thought I rode.
  I have also had a horse on permanent loan, and would not have dreamed of preventing the owner from riding him. 
I now understand the thinking behind people who have ignored my loan agreement instructions, even though they have read it, agreed to it and signed it.


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## conniegirl (27 July 2018)

If you rented a house would you be happy for the owner to stay overnight when ever they were in town? After all it is thier house!

When renting i was happy enough with the periodic inspections which were arranged at a mutually convenient time but i would not have been happy with the owner demanding to stay the night, let alone on short notice when not convenient to myself and definitely not if it wasnt discussed up front.

As i said, my current loan has a clause about owner riding at inspections but it was discussed up front and will be when convenient to both of us.


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## Theocat (27 July 2018)

honetpot said:



			You are loaning not owning, and the owner retains full rights, unless they have specifically said otherwise. 

Quote from BHs sample loan agreement, which is a good start that you can adapt to your circumstances. 
1.2	The agreement shall in no circumstances be interpreted or construed as an agreement for permanent transfer or any other purpose. 
1.3	It is agreed that that at no time is the Borrower the registered owner of the Horse and is not permitted to loan, lease or sell the Horse to any third parties.
1.4	The loan shall commence on [enter start] and end on [end dates] (the Period).
1.5	On the agreement of both parties the Period may be extended or renewed for a further period of time.
1.6	The Owner shall have absolute discretion to sell the Horse on whatever terms he/she sees fit without the agreement of or consultation with the Borrower, although this agreement must first be terminated. 
4.1.7.	allow the Owner reasonable access to the Horse at the address specified above at any reasonable time;

If I travelled a 150 miles and was not allowed access to my horse, and if I thought I needed to ride to asses whether was being cared for to my satisfaction, as far as I am concerned as the owner, wanting to ride my horse, that is my right. I wouldn't matter how good  a rider the loaner thought they were and how badly they thought I rode.
  I have also had a horse on permanent loan, and would not have dreamed of preventing the owner from riding him. 
I now understand the thinking behind people who have ignored my loan agreement instructions, even though they have read it, agreed to it and signed it.
		
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There is no question of refusing access for a check - both the loaner and YO are happy with that and have said they would accommodate it.

Nor are they preventing the owner riding - but if the owner can ONLY do one specific day, and the loaner can't be there, I don't personally think it is reasonable to expect to ride. 

A loan agreement should specify expectations for riding. There's no intrinsic objection to it, but it needs to be clear in advance. I can't be the only one who has known an owner insist on occasional rides, which happened to include xc jaunts and competitions - several times a month and with no thought to the loaner's own programme.

In this specific situation, what would happen if tack goes missing while the owner has access to the tack room? What happens if the owner gets injured whilst riding unsupervised on the YO's land? What happens if the horse is hooleyed up the gallops and goes lame?

As far as I can see, the loaner is being reasonable, but the owner hasn't helped herself by specifying riding in advance, and has extremely limited availability when she can visit that doesn't happen to suit. If she wants to ride, and the loaner has already said they were happy with that, she need to be more flexible than one visit every five months on a fixed day! I would not consider that "reasonable" under the terms of the contract.


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## HashRouge (27 July 2018)

Lévrier;13813184 said:
			
		


			Apologies for specifically answering your replies HashRouge, but why ever do you think it is OK for the owner to ride the horse while it is on loan?  A loan agreement (in my view) hands the responsibility for care, upkeep and exercise of the horse over the the loaner or specified others.  It doesn't usually give the option for the owner to come along for a joy ride without being required to pay for any maintenance costs?

As an example, I couldn't see most owners agreeing to (for example) a friend turning up to ride their horse free of charge when they (the friend) felt like it?
		
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The example you give is not the same at all. Your whole post rather implies that the owner retains no rights to the horse just because they have put it on loan, which I do not agree with. Yes the loaner is paying for the upkeep etc, but ultimately they have not bought the horse and the owner still retains overall responsibility. After all, we all expect owners to check their horses while they are on loan, do we not? I wouldn't expect the owner to be turning up every fortnight wanting to go XC schooling, but if it seems perfectly normal to me that they would want a quick ride when they check the horse say every 3-4 months. It's what I did with my mare when she went on loan, and neither of her loaners ever had an issue with it. Frankly, I viewed it as part of the checking process! A random friend, as you give in your example, has zero rights over the horse so I'm not sure of the relevance to this scenario.

I have to say I'm a little surprised that so many people think the owner should not be able to have the odd ride on their OWN horse. Yes they have chosen to loan it, but they have not chosen to sell, so surely it stands to reason that they still want some involvement with the horse. However, I think I will just have to accept that I do not see eye to eye with a lot of people about this! I would have been mortified if either of my loaners had said I couldn't ride L when I went to check her and would have ended the loan as soon as possible, because it would not have suited me at all.


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## HashRouge (27 July 2018)

conniegirl said:



			If you rented a house would you be happy for the owner to stay overnight when ever they were in town? After all it is thier house!

When renting i was happy enough with the periodic inspections which were arranged at a mutually convenient time but i would not have been happy with the owner demanding to stay the night, let alone on short notice when not convenient to myself and definitely not if it wasnt discussed up front.

As i said, my current loan has a clause about owner riding at inspections but it was discussed up front and will be when convenient to both of us.
		
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I don't think your example is the same at all! A horse is a living thing, not an object, to which there will almost certainly be a large emotional connection.


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## conniegirl (27 July 2018)

HashRouge said:



			I don't think your example is the same at all! A horse is a living thing, not an object, to which there will almost certainly be a large emotional connection.
		
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People can have large emotional connections to houses too.


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## southerncomfort (27 July 2018)

I've had two horses on loan and I wouldn't have had any objection at all to either owner riding.  However, I would have wanted to be there.

I also agree with the point about the YO not wanting a stranger to have access to the tack room/use their facilities etc.

It sounds like a little more communication and flexibility is needed between owner and loaner in this situation before the relationship breaks down.


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## Sophire (27 July 2018)

HashRouge said:



			I don't think your example is the same at all! A horse is a living thing, not an object, to which there will almost certainly be a large emotional connection.
		
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But your emotional connection isn't tied to riding the horse surely? Your emotional connection with the horse and the worries on that basis would be just content on the basis the horse is happy in it's new surroundings and is being well looked after?


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## Leg_end (27 July 2018)

Im quite surprised by the amount of people that dont think the owner should be able to ride at their request. My mare is on loan and her owner came and schooled her within the first month but hasnt done that since. She has hacked her out but hasnt asked to school her again. 

Id never even think of refusing her request to ride, it is her horse after all!


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## honetpot (27 July 2018)

Sophire said:



			But your emotional connection isn't tied to riding the horse surely? Your emotional connection with the horse and the worries on that basis would be just content on the basis the horse is happy in it's new surroundings and is being well looked after?
		
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Being well looked after also means that it is being treated appropriately while ridden, and depending on its stage of training or age I would want to check it wasn't being over worked or worked in appropriately. 
  I used to loan out to novice riders, they were older animals so less likely to cause problems, but it was quite obvious when they came home the ones that had been ridden one sided. If I rode a loaned out horse and felt unevenness, which the loaner hadn't seen or felt I would want to do further investigation. Not all problems can be spotted from the ground.  
If I had a well schooled horse that I was loaning out I would want to check that had been maintained. Whether you are emotionally attached or not you want the horse to have a happy working life, and there are certain things that can be done to help ensure this.
  I now have a couple of very nice animals sat in the field which could be ridden but I can no longer be bothered with the hassle of loaners. The attitudes of some of the people expressed on here as confirmed my decision.


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## ester (27 July 2018)

I don't really understand why you would want to visit when the loaner wasn't around so you could chat to them too anyway?


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## Sophire (27 July 2018)

honetpot said:



			Being well looked after also means that it is being treated appropriately while ridden, and depending on its stage of training or age I would want to check it wasn't being over worked or worked in appropriately. 
  I used to loan out to novice riders, they were older animals so less likely to cause problems, but it was quite obvious when they came home the ones that had been ridden one sided. If I rode a loaned out horse and felt unevenness, which the loaner hadn't seen or felt I would want to do further investigation. Not all problems can be spotted from the ground.  
If I had a well schooled horse that I was loaning out I would want to check that had been maintained. Whether you are emotionally attached or not you want the horse to have a happy working life, and there are certain things that can be done to help ensure this.
  I now have a couple of very nice animals sat in the field which could be ridden but I can no longer be bothered with the hassle of loaners. The attitudes of some of the people expressed on here as confirmed my decision.
		
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Oh I completely agree, but at the same time I wouldn't loan my horse to someone I didn't believe to be able to ride well enough anyway. I would be visiting already knowing how they ride as they've come to try the horse, and I've been satisfied. Sure maybe I'd want to see the horse ridden by the loaner, but again, wouldn't necessarily expect to ride it myself? By all accounts, if I went to visit and the loaner offered, I'd have a sit, but I don't think I'd expect to on the basis that its my horse.


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## honetpot (27 July 2018)

Ah, but loaning is not a static thing. They get influenced by the friend, the trainer or anyone else on the yard that think it will, 'go better' with x and y. I have never had anyone ask me if they can change a bit or a gadget, but they do and that's with tack provided.


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## twiggy2 (27 July 2018)

My thoughts are that if you want to ride the horse however infrequently then you part loan out nand keep it near home.
Full loan is giving all care (including riding responsibilities) to someone else and in return they cover all costs and responsibilities for the horse.
The loaner may ride/train differently to the owner but that does not mean it's wrong amd as an owner you should make sure you are happy before the horse goes to leave somewhere else.


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## splashgirl45 (27 July 2018)

i would be happy for my horses owner to ride if she wanted to but i dont think my YO would be happy if this happened while i wasnt there as i think she would be concerned that she would be held responsible if there was an accident to either the horse or the owner so i can understand the YO in this case.  i still think it is odd that someone puts a horse on loan and expects to ride when they want to without the loaner being there.


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## Leo Walker (27 July 2018)

You pay the landlord when you rent a house. When you loan a horse its free other than the upkeep costs. It would never cross my mind to say no to a loaner asking to ride and with the many I've loaned out I've always been offered the chance to ride when I visit!


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## paddi22 (27 July 2018)

If the owner wanted to ride they should have specified it in the loan agreement. It is perfect normal for an owner to check and ask to watch the loaner riding, and pop up on board if the loaner suggests it (which they probably would). But for the owner to pick a day that doesn't suit the loaner and then contact the YO to book gallops, have someone there to get tack, observe them riding etc is very weird. 

I don't understand why the owner wants to ride out of the blue and cause so much hassle? the reason of "well you'd want to check how they are going schooling wise' makes no sense, you can clearly see that from the ground.  I had two different horses out on loan, and politely took both back on seperate occasions after observing the person riding them just wasn't working out for the horse - nothing awful, just not a good match and the horses schooling was going backwards. I would never have dreamed of going up and asking them could i ride the horse. And to ask when the loaner isn't even there is a bit cheeky and makes things awkward.   

I agree with twiggy, full loan is giving all care responsibilities and costs to someone else. I'd be super annoyed if i had it on a training schedule and an owner randomly decided they wants to ride it again. For the amount of hassle it it would cause for one ride, surely its not worth it. Why do you want to ride it?


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## paddi22 (27 July 2018)

Leo Walker said:



			with the many I've loaned out I've always been offered the chance to ride when I visit!
		
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The difference is that you were obviously natural and organic about the way you approached it. and in 99% of loan cases id imagine the loanee is perfectly happy with a visit and  a chat and a quick ' sure why don't you pop up on her' scenario. Thats different to getting a message saying an owner wants to ride, out of the blue, on x day (which doesn't suit) and now you have hassle with YO having to be there to supervise a complete stranger in a tackroom and on their premises. And saying its 'just a walk around a gallops' doesn't make it any simpler - the YO doesn't know who you are and if you can ride at all, if you know how to behave on a gallops (if, say, racehorses are being trained there) or if you are going to suddenly decide you want to go for a canter and blow a tendon under the YOs watch, or if you lose control and have  a serious accident and sue them. 

Its just messy!


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## lannerch (27 July 2018)

Leo Walker said:



			You pay the landlord when you rent a house. When you loan a horse its free other than the upkeep costs. It would never cross my mind to say no to a loaner asking to ride and with the many I've loaned out I've always been offered the chance to ride when I visit!
		
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Except keeping the horse is the dearest part of owning a horse. You cant expect someone else to pay and you to ride.

I have 2 horses out on loan, I do not financially contribute at all to their keep , so I would not dream of demanding to ride them .

I have ridden one of them, when the loaner suggested it, at a time suitable to loaner , demanding anything more than this imo is unreasonable, unless you still financially contribute.


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## YorkshireLady (8 August 2018)

I also would not expect to ride my horse that is on loan - unless i was asked to by the person loaning.  It is different if HELPING but I wouldn't expect to turn up at a day I can do and ride a horse when the loanee is not there...and I actually wouldn't have put that in any agreement either.

I also do nto expect to see my horse v regularly but do chat and keep in touch weekly. The horse needs to not see me too often to get the bond with the loanee as well


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## zaminda (9 August 2018)

HashRouge said:



			But since she owned the horse, I don't see why you would think it was your right to refuse to "let" her ride if she had wanted to. Short of threatening to end the loan if she did, what were your options? I mean, the horse belonged to her. 

I'm genuinely astonished that so many of you think it's completely unreasonable for the owner of a horse to have a quick ride on it in its loan home. I can understand the YO perhaps saying no if the loaner wasn't around, but can't understand why a loaner would say no.
		
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Well in short as she couldn't sell the horse because she couldn't do anything with it, and we had put a lot of work into him to get him rideable, I wouldn't be happy with her coming up and undoing it all in one ride. The answer would have been bring transport and collect him, so yes we would have ended the loan, as we had him to compete, not to reschool for her to ride. If it had been different I would have had no problem letting her ride him, but she wasn't capable.


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