# foal with physitis



## Rosieroo (11 August 2015)

My 3 month old WB x ID filly is large and has grown rapidly! She's always pinched her mums feed from a week old! I don't have much grass so mum has 2 feeds consisting of alfa a and Baileys stud balancer! I noticed the other day that her fetlocks have hard lumps on them so got the vet to take a look who said she has physitis & that the mare is feeding her too well!! I have been advised to wean her asap!! 
Has anyone else had this and were you also advised to wean so early?? 
Thanks


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## Maesfen (11 August 2015)

Please stop feeding the mare or if she really does need a feed, then make sure the foal can't get anything at all and I really mean that.  It could well be an idea to keep them in for a week or so on just hay, no hard feed at all to give the limbs a rest.  If you don't address this now you might just as well write the foal off, it IS that serious, you must act at once to prevent any further damage to her limbs.
Yes, it wouldn't be a bad idea to wean her early but if you can restrict both diet and exercise, you might be able to eek it out for another month so that the filly will be better able to adapt but you must be very strict with yourself; no hard feed at all, restricted exercise or preferably kept in with just soft meadow hay; get your farrier to look at her too.  Also make sure you have other young company for your foal when you do wean.

It's not the end of the world if you act now but it will be if you don't.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (12 August 2015)

Better to let the mare drop condition than to endanger the foal, I am not sure how detrimental resticting the natural  exercise regime of the foal will be, most of our young foals were stabled at night, they went on to become racehorses so I assume that 12/12 turnout/stabling is not detrimental.
You can feed the mare with an over the door manger.


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## Rosieroo (12 August 2015)

Thanks for your replies! The vet didn't say that taking mum off her hard feed was an option in terms of correcting the problem, she said that mum was doing such a good job & feeding the equivalent to cream! Ive only been feeding what the baileys feed nutrionist advised me too! Ive been told i need to wean asap :-( 
Any advise on what to feed foalie when she's off mums milk??


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## jrp204 (12 August 2015)

Surely Whatever you feed the mother will impact on milk quality?


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## Alec Swan (12 August 2015)

Bonkers2 said:



			Better to let the mare drop condition than to endanger the foal, .. .
		
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Rosieroo said:



			.. The vet didn't say that taking mum off her hard feed was an option in terms of correcting the problem, she said that mum was doing such a good job & feeding the equivalent to cream! 

Ive only been feeding what the baileys feed nutrionist advised me too! Ive been told i need to wean asap :-( 


Any advise on what to feed foalie when she's off mums milk??
		
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Bonkers is correct.  Mares SHOULD loose condition as the foal advances,  it's what 'lessens' the milk supply and its quality and it's the precursor to natural weaning.  Continue to shove grub down the foal's throat in any form,  and the problems will only continue and probably worsen.

Vets often offer dietary advice when they simply aren't qualified,  unless 'Stud Work' is their specific forte.  Cut out the mare's feeds and allow her to drop away and the 'cream' which she's supplying will dry up!

Alfa A and Balancer are rocket fuel,  and potentially very dangerous.  

I worked out many years ago,  that when people are trying to sell me something,  their advice should be treated with caution.  In your shoes,  and considering that you have little grass,  I would immediately place both the mare and foal on a diet of decent hay,  last year's if you can find it,  not this year's,  as it'll be a bit too rich.  This year's hay should be good enough in perhaps a couple of months time.

One thing that I WOULD NOT DO,  is wean a foal at 3 months.  If you've got the dietary aspect wrong whilst the foal's feeding from the mare,  the chances are that the matter will be made far worse after weaning.

I've just re-read what I've typed and it all sounds rather blunt!  That isn't really my intention.  It isn't my intention to cause offence but only to offer help.

The 'over-doing' of young stock causes far more problems than than does the opposite.

Alec.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (12 August 2015)

Yes, do wean if possible, unless its a huge problem.
I had this back in the 80's with a mare who did hers really far too well, and wasn't being fed anything at all.
On vets advice we weaned end of July when foal was 13 weeks. Foal was eating grass happily so was on restricted grazing (quality, not area) and left with aunties. Farrier in attendance too and by a yr old you would never have known.

Good luck OP, but please at least cut any hard feed and any good grass out from foals reach.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 August 2015)

jrp204 said:



			Surely Whatever you feed the mother will impact on milk quality?
		
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No, that is determined by genetic and equine physiology, it is the volume that will be affected by feeding [assuming ad lib water] .
Early weaned foals are a nightmare, what are you going to do with them, this is a formative stage of development mentaly and phyically, are they to be shut in a stable for three weeeks, or what?
For once I agree with Alex: we had 50 foals to take to weaning, they all got weaned at six months. Staff bonus was on headcollar count, no foal at the sales or to owner, no bonus. I don't think any stud managers would wean a foal at three months.
Vets with no stud experience should keep quiet.
Feed company nutritionists should go and work on a stud for a year before they spout stuff learned at college and delivered by lecturers who have read a book. I was told to feed my little mare 2kg of Mare and youngstock, I asked is there no danger of laminitis .... "oh yes", well when was she going to tell me, she did not know I had worked on a stud and forty years experience feeding, obviously 2feed more" = more profit. end of.
It is perferctly easy to make arrangements to alter the dynamics, if one does not have good facilities send them to a stud.


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## Mega (16 August 2015)

Hi can I jump in on this thread please? I need help too! My (just turned) 3 month old filly has been diagnosed with physitis too by my vet. 
She was very slightly over at the knee (I mean hardly noticeable) about a month ago when the farrier came. He said to keep them in on hard ground during the day and turn them out at night. I checked with vet who said to keep them in 24/7 for a week and to walk out in hand and then to turn out 12hrs in 12hrs. Which I did and she is no longer over at the knee, however after 3 nights out after the box rest her back fetlock so looked a little swollen but hard. I called vet who said it sounded like physitis and to keep in for a week, which I did. They went down within a few days. The vet came to visit after their first turnout after this stint of box rest because I noticed the fetlocks starting to swell again. He prescribed to keep them in for a further 2wks and gave her some anitiflamatories. 2 wks were up on Thursday and she looked great (if not a little excitable cavorting around the stable. As per vet advice I spent ages fencing a small paddock within their lovely big post and rail paddock, however within less than 3 mins of being out she had galloped through the electric fence and undone 2wks box rest! Said vet is now away so I spoke to another in the practice who said turn them out on a bare piece and not to worry unless it's not sorted its self out within 6wks! I've since electric fence trained the foal and had them out for 3/4hrs per day on a paddock about twice the size of the stable and in the rest of the time. They are only on about 1/2 a bale of hay a day and no hard feed (ever!) my mare is loosing muscle now. I am also aware that they need to spend time being horses with the other horses here. What is the best course of action? More anti inflamatories? Box rest? Small paddock rest? (Incidentally the heat seems to leave the fetlocks when she is out and I'm sure the swelling/hard area goes down too) 
Sorry for the long message your help and advice very much appreciated. Many thanks for sticking with me!


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## madmav (16 August 2015)

Must be so worrying for you. But surely weaning foal so soon won't be good? So much in mother's milk that bought feed can't replicate? Could they go out in field with a bit of add-on hay to hang out and see if it sorts?


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## Alec Swan (16 August 2015)

Mega,  we all look at foals and worry!  Over at the knee generally isn't a problem and it sorts itself out.  Back at the knee would imply a weakness,  and would be a worry.  The problem with stabling foals is that once released and on to grass,  then they can grow in spurts.  Far be it from me to contradict your vet,  and he's seen your foal and I haven't,  but I'd turn them out and leave them out.  If your foal's joints are being effected by keeping them in,  then there's an answer to that,  isn't there?

I wouldn't worry about the mare dropping away,  she'll have plenty of time to catch up and put condition back on,  after weaning.

Alec.


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## CBFan (17 August 2015)

When I had a foal (6 months) with Physitis - in her knees and fetlocks, vets instructions (experienced stud vet) were strict box rest, bandaging affected joints and feed weighed, soaked hay. Nothing else. She too had been on alfa-a and topspec feed balancer - NEVER AGAIN!! Managing exercise and diet is key to stabilising the growth plates.

Given that your foal is too young to be going on to solids alone you really must manage his intake by what your mare is supplied. Cut all bucket food immediately and feed only hay. The sooner you get this under control the better. My filly also had OCD in her stifles which turned into a bigger problem, though as an adult it is her knee that has given her the biggest problems.


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## Mega (17 August 2015)

Thanks for the advice. They are now turned out on a tiny bare paddock just slightly larger than their stable with hardly and grass, no hay or hard feed. Fingers crossed it works. They are quiet. And resting lots.


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## CBFan (18 August 2015)

Mega said:



			Thanks for the advice. They are now turned out on a tiny bare paddock just slightly larger than their stable with hardly and grass, no hay or hard feed. Fingers crossed it works. They are quiet. And resting lots.
		
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They need some hay (ideally soaked initially) if there isn't any grass... just enough to keep them going, rather than add lib.


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## Mega (18 August 2015)

Don't worry they have lovely barn dried hay and I'm planning on strip grazing them too.


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## Alec Swan (18 August 2015)

Mega said:



			Don't worry they have lovely barn dried hay and I'm planning on strip grazing them too.
		
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The term is 'Barn Stored'.  Hay dries 'before' it's put in to a bale.  If you're offered barn 'dried' hay,  then I'd leave it where it is!

Be careful of the small print!

Alec.


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## Mega (18 August 2015)

No Alec, I know there are lots of bad ones out there, but this is a friend of ours who supplies top race yards nationally and the queens horses, it really is barn dried through a drier before baling,after drying on the field. This way they remove almost all dust that might of been there. I've seen it done and never had hay so clean and beautiful. I would def recommend it. Look up Antrobus Hall Farm on Facebook 
On an aside my little filly's legs are looking heaps better on her tiny paddock, almost back to normal already. I'm feeling like a lot happier mummy. I hope the other foal at the beginning of the thread is doing ok?


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## Mega (18 August 2015)

Ps thank you so much for all your thoughts and advice Alec they really are very much appreciated.


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## CBFan (20 August 2015)

Great to hear your filly is already looking better!  I learnt so much when my filly had it - all about growth plates and their rate of closure... it certainly was a HUGE learning curve...


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## Mega (20 August 2015)

Hi CB Fan yes very relieved she looks back to normal now but not taking any chances. 
Please share what you learnt about the closure of growth plates. In fact I was about to start a separate post to see if anyone could tell me about that. Also when the growth spurts tend to be. I'm very interested. 
Thanks so much.


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## CBFan (21 August 2015)

Mega said:



			Hi CB Fan yes very relieved she looks back to normal now but not taking any chances. 
Please share what you learnt about the closure of growth plates. In fact I was about to start a separate post to see if anyone could tell me about that. Also when the growth spurts tend to be. I'm very interested. 
Thanks so much.
		
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Growth plates close from the ground up this illustration explains when growth plates close:

http://www.naturalhorsetraining.com/images/HorseGrowthPlates.jpg


I have found some xrays of my filly's legs to show anyone who doesn't know, what growth plates look like...

This shows 'open' growth plates just above the knee:







This show's a fetlock (or canon bone) previously affected by physitis where the growth plate has settled:








and this... same horse - is a stifle affected by OCD:









Growth spurts are normal and can happen at any time but in my experience the best way to avoid excessive growth spurts is to keep the diet as simple and constant as possible. Providing a high fibre, low starch and relatively low protein diet (so powder supplements are preferred to 'balancers' and avoid alfa-a. Try and maintain constant grazing whereby the horse isn't allowed to gorge on lots of rich grass but has a constant supply of grazing and then just hope for the best.


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## Mega (23 August 2015)

Wow thank you for that CBFan, great stuff, helped lots. We are now strip grazing to help reduce gorging and keep the horses life as settled and constant as possible. My farrier came yesterday and was very pleased with her progress. He is a very experienced remedial farrier and knows his stuff, so I'm happy that he's happy! 
Thanks I found all the info and your X-rays very interesting.


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## Alec Swan (24 August 2015)

CBFan said:



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Growth spurts are normal and can happen at any time but in my experience the best way to avoid excessive growth spurts is to keep the diet as simple and constant as possible. Providing a high fibre, low starch and relatively low protein diet (so powder supplements are preferred to 'balancers' and avoid alfa-a. Try and maintain constant grazing whereby the horse isn't allowed to gorge on lots of rich grass but has a constant supply of grazing and then just hope for the best.
		
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I'm hopeless at recognising what goes on in x/rays,  but even for me,  the differences are obvious.  Thanks for the pics,  excellent!

The soundest advice too!

Alec.


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## CBFan (4 September 2015)

Hiya!

Apologies for not replying sooner. I'm glad my girlie's xrays have proven useful. Any update on your foal Mega? It took a long time to get my filly's growth under control and while her knees and fetlocks healed on their own, she required surgery on her stifles.

Just be wary of over feeding should your foal drop weight after weaning / over winter. Hay, hay and more hay is key. keep any bucket food plain and simple - a grass chaff, speedi beet, high fibre nuts type thing with a powder supplement added if you feel she needs it. She may go ribby but she will put weight on when he growth slows


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## Mega (11 September 2015)

Hi CB fan thanks for your concern. I have fenced them in small paddocks and controlled their grazing, both are looking well and (touch wood) her legs all seem absolutely fine. So far no signs of any issues further up, but of course I'll keep a close eye. (Fingers crossed). I plan to keep them as natural as possible. Any tips on weaning? She's 4 months old now and looking well developed. I had planned to keep them together until early spring as last time it seemed fairly traumatic weaning in the winter. Any comments?


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