# Other liveries "borrowed" my lorry. Bit annoyed !



## ROMANY 1959 (23 February 2013)

Went on holiday for 2 weeks. Got home to find out , by chance I might say, that two other liveries told yard owner they had permission to use my lorry to go 6 hour round trip to collect a horse. !!!  I was very upset to think what may have happened, as its only me and yo and my mate who use it for pony club and hunting. 
Was just having conversation about where all fuel goes to and it all came out bout this jolly in my lorry... I don't really know how to approach the lady when I see her, I am one for a quiet life, and don't fuss at all, but this was out of order. I have spoke to YO and she assumed they had spoke to me themselves or she would never have given them the key. YO very sorry about it, I may well have said yes  if yO drove, but they drove themselves, and have never driven a lorry b4!! 
What would you do? What should I say, ? Can't bear to cause bad feeling on the yard. 
It would not have taken much to phone me and ask, yes I was 3000 miles away but it's not really on is it.


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## Django Pony (23 February 2013)

OMG I would have been furious! Never mind not causing any bad feeling, THEY have done that, not you! I'd either want them kicked off, or I'd move myself, how can you ever trust them again??


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

I would smack her with a snow shovel, drag her round the yard by the scruff of her neck and make her tell everyone we meet that she is a lying, scheaming cow who has taken advantage and cannot be trusted.

I would give her a bill for the diesel and a days lorry hire, I would also remove the key from the YO, oh and she would be paying for me to take lorry to a mechanic and body shop of my choice for a check over and rectification of anything at her expense.

Then I would hit her with a snow shovel !

Jeeze - is she really still alive ????


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## TuscanBunnyGirl (23 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			I would smack her with a snow shovel, drag her round the yard by the scruff of her neck and make her tell everyone we meet that she is a lying, scheaming cow who has taken advantage and cannot be trusted.

I would give her a bill for the diesel and a days lorry hire, I would also remove the key from the YO, oh and she would be paying for me to take lorry to a mechanic and body shop of my choice for a check over and rectification of anything at her expense.

Then I would hit her with a snow shovel !

Jeeze - is she really still alive ????
		
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HAHA this made me giggle! 

Yes..i too would be rather..livid to say the least


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## NeverSayNever (23 February 2013)

what's more worrying is the license and insurance !


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## christine48 (23 February 2013)

You need to speak to them, they weren't insured to drive it. Thankfully nothing happened. They need to reimburse you for diesel & wear & tear ( going rate is about £1.50 per mile). If they don't agree to this, then I would threaten them with reporting them to the police. Taking a vehicle without the owner's permission and driving without valid insurance. 
Next time don't leave the keys around.


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## dotty1 (23 February 2013)

I would be livid!!.  Does it mean they borrowed it and used your fuel and didn't replace it??
They must pay for the fuel and explain what made them think they could use it.
Can the YO help you with the conversation as she was tricked into giving them the keys so she must be pretty cross with them too

What a cheek.


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## Tuffles 23 (23 February 2013)

I would be more than a bit annoyed  and i would see it as theft.


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## little_critter (23 February 2013)

I also assume they weren't insured to drive your lorry?


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## angelish (23 February 2013)

i would have gone absoloutly mental  when i calmed down i would give them a hefty bill for fuel (at least £1 a mile) and be so mad that they wouldn't dare "borrow" it again 

i'd also threaten to make a call to the police as that is theft when they do not have owner consent to drive it , keeping the peace is one thing but don't let people get away with taking the complete and utter pittle out of you


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## browbrow (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Went on holiday for 2 weeks. Got home to find out , by chance I might say, that two other liveries told yard owner they had permission to use my lorry to go 6 hour round trip to collect a horse. !!!  I was very upset to think what may have happened, as its only me and yo and my mate who use it for pony club and hunting. 
Was just having conversation about where all fuel goes to and it all came out bout this jolly in my lorry... I don't really know how to approach the lady when I see her, I am one for a quiet life, and don't fuss at all, but this was out of order. I have spoke to YO and she assumed they had spoke to me themselves or she would never have given them the key. YO very sorry about it, I may well have said yes  if yO drove, but they drove themselves, and have never driven a lorry b4!! 
What would you do? What should I say, ? Can't bear to cause bad feeling on the yard. 
It would not have taken much to phone me and ask, yes I was 3000 miles away but it's not really on is it.
		
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GGGGRRRRR - so many options but jesus so sorry  _ I am fuming for you!!!!!!

Option one - just confront them and go effing ape  - rant and rave and make them feel like complete scratters which is what they are - horrid deceitful people. might make you feel better but could disturb tensions on yard - but why you would want to stay there - you poor thing

Number two - call the police and get them to take a visit on the yard to explain about driving without consent is called theft etc.....

Number Three  - bill them for fuel, worn tyres, insurance, and general use and if they don't cough of they are confirming even more they are scum - maybestart to borrow their hay and shavings oh and saddle - or maybe the horse 

what is up with some people????????


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## browbrow (23 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			I would smack her with a snow shovel, drag her round the yard by the scruff of her neck and make her tell everyone we meet that she is a lying, scheaming cow who has taken advantage and cannot be trusted.

I would give her a bill for the diesel and a days lorry hire, I would also remove the key from the YO, oh and she would be paying for me to take lorry to a mechanic and body shop of my choice for a check over and rectification of anything at her expense.

Then I would hit her with a snow shovel !

Jeeze - is she really still alive ????
		
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This is what I would do 100%


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## DragonSlayer (23 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			I would smack her with a snow shovel, drag her round the yard by the scruff of her neck and make her tell everyone we meet that she is a lying, scheaming cow who has taken advantage and cannot be trusted.

I would give her a bill for the diesel and a days lorry hire, I would also remove the key from the YO, oh and she would be paying for me to take lorry to a mechanic and body shop of my choice for a check over and rectification of anything at her expense.

Then I would hit her with a snow shovel !

Jeeze - is she really still alive ????
		
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This is soooooo me! 

Outrageous!

...I'd also report it to the police.....no insurance? I know the deed is done, by by god, pull out all the stops!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (23 February 2013)

Holy $h!t   id be spitting feathers and person would be getting pinned against a wall the next time I saw her!!! How DARE she!! If they had gotten stopped by the police or an accident had happened it would be you picking up the pieces or paying to get your lorry back  

How did they think this wouldnt come out in conversation!!!   I know you dont want to cause havok but if they think that little of you to do that to you Id say you need to get it straight in their heads that you wont take $h!t!! They obviously think that your soo meek that you wont say anything!!


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## Honey08 (23 February 2013)

I would definately say something.  Thats outrageous!  A bill for fuel if the tank is not full and a check over by a mechanic is the very least I would expect.  Plus an enormous apology.   And if they didn't agree to it I would tell them that you would be reporting the matter to the police.

Your YO should be saying something too.  If I were her I would be giving a month's notice to someone who lied like that to her face - thats not the type of person I would want on my yard.  They have put YO in an awkward position as well.

Seriously, I don't know how you get past something like that - its  a major big deal, theft and fraud plus driving without insurance etc.


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## Shadow the Reindeer (23 February 2013)

I'd be fuming!


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## cremedemonthe (23 February 2013)

Agree with all the above plus it was totally illegal, taking without consent AND no insurance and does their licence cover them to drive your lorry?
I'd be fuming and get them kicked off the yard, if they are low enough to steal someone's lorry what else are they capable of?
Yes, get them to pay lorry hire and diesel too, get the lorry checked over if I were you.


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## Mongoose11 (23 February 2013)

Charge them a day's rate. About 180 quid should do it. Unbelievable. You couldn't make it up!


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## poops (23 February 2013)

Outrageous, bill them for fuel, wear & tear etc. Can't believe anyone could take such liberties!


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## Fairycupcake (23 February 2013)

How crafty is that!! They must of said to YO that you said they could use the lorry or why else would she have given them the key so I also think she should say some thing to them as a YO being lied to by a livery! I would deff be asking for payment for the fuel, obviously the cheap opition to take yours and not hire, but how would they think they would get away with taking a lorry all that way without filling it up as it must of needed filling up at some point on thier trip? Its bad to know they have never driven one before! I would be getting my keys off everyone who has one, really wouldnt of given a key to anyone full stop even if it is the YO as you wouldnt give someone like that a key to your house would you so I wouldnt give anyone a key for my box like that! x


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## DragonSlayer (23 February 2013)

..and if I was the YO, I'd be giving notice first thing in the morning...


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## Shadow the Reindeer (23 February 2013)

YO should not have given them the key in the first instant, she should know about insurance and license etc..


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## Spyda (23 February 2013)

I'd be speaking to the Police.... They were driving without permission or insurance cover. Totally illegal. Sod being polite about it.....


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## kizmund (23 February 2013)

Surprise yo didn't call you to check before handing over the keys :S


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## ROMANY 1959 (23 February 2013)

Oh gosh.. I am so worked up bout this, they are two nice ladies, I think they fuelled it, cos I never left much in the tank. And my insurance is anyone over 25. With permission of course. 
Nothing like this has ever happend b4. I got impression from others at yard today that they were desperate to get this horse, and said they would phone me but I was in USA and didn't have phone on all days.. I am a whimp when confronting this sort of thing. I even delayed going to yard today till I knew the lady wasn't there... I can't go in all guns blazing.. Just want know why I wasn't asked, as I said yO was told I knew, but I saw her today and confirmed no one asked me at all.... I was jet lagged  and I should have said something when I was told, but its several days now and it's been bugging me and stopping me sleeping, I am a worry bum anyway.. Yard owner real sorry she won't hand over keys again without speak to me first. I can't bear bad feeling on yard..


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## lachlanandmarcus (23 February 2013)

Spyda said:



			I'd be speaking to the Police.... They were driving without permission or insurance cover. Totally illegal. Sod being polite about it..... 

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This, especially given the deception involved. And if I were YO I wouldn't have them on the yard and would give them notice.


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## TuscanBunnyGirl (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Oh gosh.. I am so worked up bout this, they are two nice ladies, I think they fuelled it, cos I never left much in the tank. And my insurance is anyone over 25. With permission of course. 
Nothing like this has ever happend b4. I got impression from others at yard today that they were desperate to get this horse, and said they would phone me but I was in USA and didn't have phone on all days.. I am a whimp when confronting this sort of thing. I even delayed going to yard today till I knew the lady wasn't there... I can't go in all guns blazing.. Just want know why I wasn't asked, as I said yO was told I knew, but I saw her today and confirmed no one asked me at all.... I was jet lagged  and I should have said something when I was told, but its several days now and it's been bugging me and stopping me sleeping, I am a worry bum anyway.. Yard owner real sorry she won't hand over keys again without speak to me first. I can't bear bad feeling on yard..
		
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Well you're obviously just too nice then aren't you  haha

Perhaps write a letter if it would be easier for you? Less confrontation?


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## dafthoss (23 February 2013)

I'd go ape at them then call the police. Some one I know went to court for similar and got a fine and loads of points so would definatly be worth perusing.


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## giddyupalfie (23 February 2013)

Can't believe according to the title of the post you are only 'a bit annoyed' OP, I would be absolutely livid! 

I, like you, also don't like confrontation but I would definitely have to say something. As everyone has said, this is theft! They have taken your lorry without your permission, had no insurance and lied to YO. 

If I was the YO I would not want them on my yard any longer. Not after being lied to like that!


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## Clodagh (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Oh gosh.. I am so worked up bout this, they are two nice ladies, I think they fuelled it, cos I never left much in the tank. And my insurance is anyone over 25. With permission of course. 
Nothing like this has ever happend b4. I got impression from others at yard today that they were desperate to get this horse, and said they would phone me but I was in USA and didn't have phone on all days.. I am a whimp when confronting this sort of thing. I even delayed going to yard today till I knew the lady wasn't there... I can't go in all guns blazing.. Just want know why I wasn't asked, as I said yO was told I knew, but I saw her today and confirmed no one asked me at all.... I was jet lagged  and I should have said something when I was told, but its several days now and it's been bugging me and stopping me sleeping, I am a worry bum anyway.. Yard owner real sorry she won't hand over keys again without speak to me first. I can't bear bad feeling on yard..
		
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*******s to bad feeling - there is non confrontational and there is a doormat. Write a letter if you can't say anything, or go and cry in front of her, saying you can't believe she did it. She is scum, not a nice lady at all. Abnd get some money, come on girl!


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## Wildforestpony18 (23 February 2013)

As everyone else has already said - I would be FUMING! I know how it feels to not want to cause a fuss, but im sorry, under them circumstances, i would go mental! I would recommend; calling the police, and getting the YO to kick them off! Or leave yourself. NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!


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## DragonSlayer (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Oh gosh.. I am so worked up bout this, they are two nice ladies, I think they fuelled it, cos I never left much in the tank. And my insurance is anyone over 25. With permission of course. 
Nothing like this has ever happend b4. I got impression from others at yard today that they were desperate to get this horse, and said they would phone me but I was in USA and didn't have phone on all days.. I am a whimp when confronting this sort of thing. I even delayed going to yard today till I knew the lady wasn't there... I can't go in all guns blazing.. Just want know why I wasn't asked, as I said yO was told I knew, but I saw her today and confirmed no one asked me at all.... I was jet lagged  and I should have said something when I was told, but its several days now and it's been bugging me and stopping me sleeping, I am a worry bum anyway.. Yard owner real sorry she won't hand over keys again without speak to me first. I can't bear bad feeling on yard..
		
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I know what you mean, but what if they had totalled your lorry? I doubt they would be dipping their hand into their pockets. They obviously know you are a nice person who will avoid a confrontation so that's probably why they went ahead and did it. If there is any bad feeling on the yard, then it's up to the YO (who should now be giving them notice) to sort out.

Have you got anyone who can talk to them for you?


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

Ok then - the YO handed over the keys without checking with you so let her deal with it, tell her you are reporting it to the police and you want them kicked of the yard. Period !

(still prefer the snow shovel idea though  )


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## soulfull (23 February 2013)

nice ladies my butt.  sorry but some people are always nice to you when you have transport and they don't, I lean't the hard way!!

I would be telling YO she should also  at least giving them a written warning about lying to her like that   what else would they lie to her about to get what they wanted

if you can't confront them you AT LEAST need to leave a letter explaining that what they did was completely unacceptable!!   If they were that desperate to get the horse they should have hired a lorry, and if they can't afford that, they can't afford the horse, or to have paid repairs had they damaged yours

ABSOLUTELY NOT ON


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## carthorse (23 February 2013)

Why hasnt the YO said something to her. I know I would. This needs  a meeting, ask the YO to arrange it.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Oh gosh.. I am so worked up bout this, they are two nice ladies, I think they fuelled it, cos I never left much in the tank. And my insurance is anyone over 25. With permission of course. 
Nothing like this has ever happend b4. I got impression from others at yard today that they were desperate to get this horse, and said they would phone me but I was in USA and didn't have phone on all days.. I am a whimp when confronting this sort of thing. I even delayed going to yard today till I knew the lady wasn't there... I can't go in all guns blazing.. Just want know why I wasn't asked, as I said yO was told I knew, but I saw her today and confirmed no one asked me at all.... I was jet lagged  and I should have said something when I was told, but its several days now and it's been bugging me and stopping me sleeping, I am a worry bum anyway.. Yard owner real sorry she won't hand over keys again without speak to me first. I can't bear bad feeling on yard..
		
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Ok OP no offence, I can understand your not wanting to cause bad feeling but what happens the next time they take it?? A horse puts its foot through it, falls in it and has to be cut out etc?? Its your lorry so if you want to be paying costs then fair enough but if you dont say anything then it will continue to happen. So next minute they are using your tack, riding your horse, using your feed/hay/bedding??? People like those only stop when they are confronted. I worked on a yard for over ten years and one person who came on it made free with folks feed and hay, she was skint and really couldnt afford her horse but rather than telling folk was just slyly helping herself. When she was confronted she broke down and confessed but she was still given the choice of paying back what she had taken or handing in her months notice. Taking other folks stuff isnt on.

I wouldnt be wanting to pay the insurance, tax and plating on a lorry for other folks non paying benefit!! Christ I be gunning if anyone took my trailer without permission. Its not much but its blurry mine and I need it in working order. my mare fell in it and trashed the back partitions and i was fine as it was my horse but if anyone else had done that and hadnt paid out to fix it Id be left to pay for it myself and i just dont see how thats justifiable.


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## Theocat (23 February 2013)

But they didn't have your permission, so they weren't insured!  You must speak to them about it - you already feel uncomfortable going up to the yard; you can't let that get worse.

I'm with the others, I'd say very calmly and politely that you heard they had used it, that you're sorry but you aren't happy for people to use it without your explicit permission because they aren't insured, and then say that it's standard practice to pay £X per mile - and then leave it up to them.  I won't say push for payment, because you probably won't feel comfortable doing it, but just outline the situation and let their own consciences get to work.  They might not cough up, but at least you've cleared the air and you can be absolutely sure they won't do it again!


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## Littlelegs (23 February 2013)

I'd just go straight to the police, if she later agrees to cough up, you can drop the charges if you are feeling generous. As to what to say, something like this; 'oy, ****, I want a word with you, you thieving ****ing ****. What the **** did you think you were doing taking my lorry you cheeky ****ing ****. I've reported you for theft, & once you've been prosecuted I will be making a claim through the civil courts for damages too. So sit on this ( certain one fingered gesture) & swivel, mother ******'.


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## circuit dancer (23 February 2013)

Next they will be "borrowing" your horse AND lorry to go to shows!   Nothing stopping them,   I would be mental!    How much things cost these days and insurance?! 

If they were that desperate for the horse they could have paid a transporter and done it properly    Not lied and risked other people's property! 

What if your box wants taxed or Insured at that time?   You could have had the biggest plenty,    There not to know its insured n what not! 

She would be getting a world of pain if it was mine!


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## Queenbee (23 February 2013)

I simply have NO words.... I would be absolutely livid at the ladies and YO, you simply cant call such underhand devious reckless women 'nice!' and no YO worth their salt would ever allow them to stay at their yard after such a situation had occurred  as YO I would be mad as hell at what they had pulled and they would be given their marching orders, I would probably be knocking something off your bill too as compensation.  As for this 'women' Id have decked them by now.  No offense but if you don't approach them over this and put them well and truly back in their box they will consider you a walk over and take the mickey, they sound like the kind of people that 'borrow' feed and bedding and never give it back and forget to tell you.  I am utterly livid about this and I don't even know you!


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## ROMANY 1959 (23 February 2013)

Am going to phone her. 
Yes I am a whimp. Can't stand arguments.


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## amandaco2 (23 February 2013)

I'd tell them unless they pay the going rate for lorry hire and never take it again, you will report them to the police.
Did their driving qualification even cover them to drive????


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## FfionWinnie (23 February 2013)

I wouldn't worry about causing bad feeling. This is outrageous, they gained it by deception and probably drove it with no insurance and then didn't even replace the fuel?!?!  What the actual .....!


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

Have you checked the lorry since they "borrowed" it ?


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## cambrica (23 February 2013)

If they were 'really nice ladies' they would have hired a 3.5tn, usually about £90 for the day complete with insurance.
Out of all of the 'problems with liveries' threads on here I think this one is the one that would send me into orbit  I would be livid - no, more than that 
They certainly wouldn't have been insured, unless you were prepared to lie for them. Plus the fact they lied to your YO and obviously was hoping that you would never find out !
Well if they were 'really nice ladies' they must also be 'really stupidly dim ladies' aswell.


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## Littlelegs (23 February 2013)

They aren't nice at all op. If your neighbours took your car for a jolly while you were on holiday would you describe them as 'nice'?


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## Copperpot (23 February 2013)

They aren't nice ladies OP, they are sneaky, devious, p*ss takers! How dare someone use a lorry you tax, mot and insure without your permission! That's outrageous! And they lied to get it! It costs a lot of money to run and maintain a lorry, which you spend so you can use it, not so others can effectively "steal" it when they fancy!


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

Nice..... nice... ladies  ????

theiving lyeing scum.... more like

Just print this thread off and leave it in there stable - and hope that they never appear on a yard near me - they would know that they did not take horse boxes without owners permission then !

Complete and utter scum


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## snopuma (23 February 2013)

Are the 'thieves' carrying on like they never borrowed it>?

If they are then they know they were in the wrong to take it, I could maybe understand lying to borrow the lorry in extreme circumstances (i.e rescuing a horse, or a trip to the vets) but to not rush to you to apologise and thank you for your understanding as soon as you step back onto the yard smacks of cheaters and thieves through and through!

Bill them, no explanation needed, just bill them, and say if they want to borrow it again in the future then they must book it with you personally.


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## holeymoley (23 February 2013)

How ridiculous!  Do they even have a license to drive it? I'd be LIVID. How dare they?  Definitely bill them. And I'd threaten with police action. 

Here was me about to start a post about how someone's been using my shavings fork !


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## crabbymare (23 February 2013)

I would be livid if anyone did that to me  firstly you need to make it very clear to the yard owner that nobody uses it unless she has direct instructions from yoo and as for the so called nice ladies they need a major talking to so they never even contemplate using it again. one thing though is that although you should make sure they pay the fuel DO NOT charge them anything for using it or you will be using it for hire or reward and that in itself is very likely to invalidate your insurance


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## Queenbee (23 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Nice..... nice... ladies  ????

theiving lyeing scum.... more like

Just print this thread off and leave it in there stable - and hope that they never appear on a yard near me - they would know that they did not take horse boxes without owners permission then !

Complete and utter scum
		
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God GW you are on fire tonight.... OP let one of us ring on your behalf  Oh and don't worry about creating a bad feeling, because of this they have already created one, you couldn't face going to your yard because of the scum, so who gives a poo?  Can't get any worse!


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## ROMANY 1959 (23 February 2013)

Have bit bullet and sent both ladies a text message saying need to see them tomorrow and why I want to see them. They are nice ladies, I understand nine out of ten would be livid, but I can't cause ructions ,   It's not in my nature. The day they went in lorry was the day I was flying so phone was off for more than 16 hours... I was out of contact all that day. There has to be an explanation or crossed wires. I should not have let it go for 5 days without saying something. 
Am I making too many excuses!!  Oh we'll I will muster up Dutch courage and confront them in the morning..


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## Nosey (23 February 2013)

Outrageous..I'd stay as calm as poss. & write down some points that you want to say & i agree wld be best to sit down with yo present & confront them calmly so you stay in control...I'd say you have reported to police who no doubt will need to interview them. I don't like scenes either but I have a cut off point & will not allow anyone to go beyond it but by staying calm you keep your adrenalin levels low & can think clearly. Good luck don't let those thieving bitches get away with it.


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## Foxhunter49 (23 February 2013)

I ask and owner for keys to their vehicles to be left with me as it might need moving so I can understand why the YO had the keys.

I would also be in to the thieves to confront them on the matter. They were deceitful and outright lied about permission. 

As for not wanting confrontation I cannot understand! The world and its brother is on your side and these people know it. There is nothing to confront. 

Bill them for a full tank of fuel and wear and tear and then some for the deceit. Also make sure they know they were not insured as they never had your permission to drive the lorry. 
Unless they give a abject apology, tell the police.


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## ROMANY 1959 (23 February 2013)

holeymoley said:



			How ridiculous!  Do they even have a license to drive it? I'd be LIVID. How dare they?  Definitely bill them. And I'd threaten with police action. 

Here was me about to start a post about how someone's been using my shavings fork ! 

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Oh that made me smile... They also borrow my barrow and brush and fork. But they do ask..!!


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

Queenbee said:



			God GW you are on fire tonight.... OP let one of us ring on your behalf  Oh and don't worry about creating a bad feeling, because of this they have already created one, you couldn't face going to your yard because of the scum, so who gives a poo?  Can't get any worse!
		
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QB..... I have a wonderful hubby, that spent a small fortune on my horse box, If I found anyone had even breathed on it, let alone taken it on a pubic highway without my permission I seriously would be in danger of being locked up.  That box is my pride and joy, It is valeted every other month, it is immaculate - but tbh if it was a battered old bedford tx I would be as angry.

My question is... have they done any damage to the box either internal to the horse area or driver area or to the engine/clutch, brake system or paint work?


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## Honey08 (23 February 2013)

No - THEY should have been to speak to you and apologise in the last five days!!!  Not you having to speak to them. Anyone genuine and nice would have been straight over to you with a bunch of flowers and an explanation - if there was one...  They have skulked and stayed silent - because they know they were in the wrong..

EVERYONE is treating you like a push over, and you are allowing them to.  Nobody has done anything to help you or be nice to you - including YO that hasn't said much about it.

You are making excuses for everyone.  Nobody else is!!  Come on, put yourself first.  You're the nice lady, not them.


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## Chunkie (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Have bit bullet and sent both ladies a text message saying need to see them tomorrow and why I want to see them. They are nice ladies, I understand nine out of ten would be livid, but I can't cause ructions ,   It's not in my nature. The day they went in lorry was the day I was flying so phone was off for more than 16 hours... I was out of contact all that day. There has to be an explanation or crossed wires. I should not have let it go for 5 days without saying something. 
Am I making too many excuses!!  Oh we'll I will muster up Dutch courage and confront them in the morning..
		
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They are not nice, they are thieves!  If they couln't contact you they should have waited until they could, not lied and taken the lorry anyway!

So you were away, but have been back for 5 days - and neither of them have made the effort to call you and speak to you about it?  I would still be stuck to the ceiling!


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## skint1 (23 February 2013)

I don't blame you for not wanting to cause ructions, as annoyed as I would be in that situation, I am not sure what I would feel comfortable to actually say to them, like you, I really hate confrontation.  If they'd never driven a lorry before a, how foolhardy, they really could have been a hazard to themselves, the horse and other road users!


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## ROMANY 1959 (23 February 2013)

One of them just phoned me and she was so so sorry, she thought other lady had asked me and visa versa.. We are having a meeting in the morning. Oh it's all been such a worry.. She said they did fuel up lorry, and I can't see any damage to it. YO was away for the weekend but assumed they had phoned me!!! 
It won't happen again, once bitten ect.


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## NeverSayNever (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Oh gosh.. I am so worked up bout this, they are two nice ladies, I think they fuelled it, cos I never left much in the tank. And my insurance is anyone over 25. With permission of course. 
Nothing like this has ever happend b4. .
		
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with your permission being the key factor...  and even then, surely the insurance is only 3rd party?


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## rockysmum (23 February 2013)

Basically they are TWOC ers, no better than the teenagers who steal cars and joy ride in them.  W

They really need to know that, together with the fact that they were not insured.

Can they even drive a wagon, they could have killed or seriously injured someone, plus written off your wagon.  And best case they have caused wear and tear to your tyres, engine, reduced the service interval.

Honestly it is irresponsible of you not to inform the police, you need to tell them that.  As I dont suppose you will, the least they can do is cough up £100 quid hire cost.


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

Ok - tell them you are very dissapointed that they felt they value you so little that they could take advantage of you in this manner.  That there are plenty of horse transporters that they could have used.  You are embarresed on THEIR behalf of the lies they told the YO, and that they should be prepared for a bill when your lorry has been in for a check in the next few days.

Tell them that you will pass the full bill onto them, and then ask them not to even breath on any of your property again as any request to use something of yours will not be forthcoming.

Say that this has left a very bad feeling on the yard, and you do not wish to associate with liars, you expect an apology to the YO and to yourself.

(then hit them with the snow shovel)


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## Umbongo (23 February 2013)

If they could not contact you for your permission then they should have gone and hired a lorry, not just taken yours anyway!!!! If they had an accident in your lorry I bet they would not be dipping into their pockets to pay out, also you say your insurance is for anyone over 25 with permission...they had NO permission! So were driving illegally.

I also hate confrontation but please do confront them and do not make excuses for them. If you are that desperate to go and collect a horse then you do not illegally drive someone elses lorry. End of.


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## Alaadin (23 February 2013)

They're not nice ladies at all! They took your lorry without your consent (which is illegal) and lied in order to do it. Stop acting like a doormat! I would be livid


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## mjcssjw2 (23 February 2013)

they were not insured unless they have there own insurance! as they were driving without your permission, hope there are no speeding tickets on there way to you!! coz you can't sau they are yours, thats quite an offence as well.
I like an easy life as well, but think you have to do something, even if its to take keys into your own possession


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## redheadkelj (23 February 2013)

If it's been 5 days, I can't believe that one of them didn't say something to you! Cheeky ******s!!!


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

Jeeze....what would you have done if they had "borrowed" your horse or your "husband", took em out for lunch? 

Get mad, stop being a nice person, they do not deserve it, neither of them are nice, they are now back tracking, the other one will either bull it out or try and make you feel like you are guilty - get your yo and you when you see them and remember they are not nice, they are liars, out and out liars.


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## tamsinkb (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Oh that made me smile... They also borrow my barrow and brush and fork. But they do ask..!!
		
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I'm not normally one to become indignant......but this made me fume!!  They may come across as 'nice ladies', but they are NOT and obviously know you don't do confrontation so felt that you'd be a walk over!  Please don't take me the wrong way.. I hate confrontation, but they are taking the proverbial and will continue to do so unless you put your foot down. If they can't afford their own yard equipment, why the hell have they got horses?! I will willingly help anyone out if they ask, but will not be used as a doormat!  Tell them you are truly hurt that they took your property without permission, thus invalidating your insurance and as a result you are having to change your way of doing things inconveniencing both yourself and YO as you now keep all the horsebox keys to yourself.  Make sure you send them on the biggest guilt trip ever and do not accept an apology- they took your property without gaining permission beforehand = theft!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			One of them just phoned me and she was so so sorry, she thought other lady had asked me and visa versa.. We are having a meeting in the morning. Oh it's all been such a worry.. She said they did fuel up lorry, and *I can't see any damage to it*. YO was away for the weekend but assumed they had phoned me!!! 
It won't happen again, once bitten ect.
		
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Are you a mechanic?

We can all check bodywork etc, but not all of us are mechanically competant....

Please, get a full mechanical check of all working parts - as to replace a clutch where a novice has been riding on the pedal & burning it out is NOT cheap.
Also brakes are there to save your life - get them checked too.
I'd be getting everything checked over by your own mechanic & making sure these ladies are paying for it too.

Please please do not mess about being nice, this is YOUR safety & will come out of your pocket in another few weeks time if anything does go wrong mechanically.


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## Spit That Out (23 February 2013)

I would be so angry you would have to hide implements which I could use to kill them...how dare they.
No insurance, didn't replace or fill up the fuel, do they have the correct licence? What if they drove through a speed camera, how do you explain that one to a court to avoid 3 points and a fine???
What if they had an accident not only with other road users but with the horse they were transporting?
I can't believe the YO was so irresponsible to even allow it.

Only in an emergency life or death situation should the YO give the keys out and collecting a horse isn't one if them.

Good grief...I'm angry for you!!
I would put together an invoice for fuel and hiring fees of your box hand it to them tomoz demand payment and tell them if they ever, ever do anything like that again you'll call the police or break their legs!!


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## FfionWinnie (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			One of them just phoned me and she was so so sorry, *she thought other lady had asked me and visa versa*.. We are having a meeting in the morning. Oh it's all been such a worry.. She said they did fuel up lorry, and I can't see any damage to it. YO was away for the weekend but assumed they had phoned me!!! 
It won't happen again, once bitten ect.
		
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They are liars. How on EARTH could that be a plausible explanation!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (23 February 2013)

Of course they are bloody sorry!!! Sorry they got caught and/or you have had the bottle to confront them about it. The deed is done IMO and sorry wouldnt have fixed any damage to your lorry.


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

Well when you get them in a room with the YO you can ask them how the miss understanding occured.

Again until you have the vehicle cheked how do you know they have not burnt the clutch out, worn the brakes out, hit some other road user, hit the tyres on the kerb etc etc


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## FfionWinnie (23 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well when you get them in a room with the YO you can ask them how the miss understanding occured.

Again until you have the vehicle cheked how do you know they have not burnt the clutch out, worn the brakes out, hit some other road user, hit the tyres on the kerb etc etc
		
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The answer is if course they have!  I tow trailers for a living and am very experienced at driving large vans etc but I still managed to clip a kerb when I drove a 3.5t box for the first time. If they have only driven cars before they WILL have been burning the clutch and clipping things!


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## Mariposa (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			One of them just phoned me and she was so so sorry, she thought other lady had asked me and visa versa.. We are having a meeting in the morning. Oh it's all been such a worry.. She said they did fuel up lorry, and I can't see any damage to it...
		
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If they thought it was all above board why didn't they bother thanking you for lending it to them? That would be the polite thing to do...right?

Kick their butt! You don't take a lorry without asking the owner. No excuses! They could have hired a lorry if it was an emergency!


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## skint1 (23 February 2013)

Mariposa said:



			If they thought it was all above board why didn't they bother thanking you for lending it to them? That would be the polite thing to do...right?
		
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True story. Wouldn't you thank someone who had been so kind? I know I would.


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## Tiffany (23 February 2013)

You're a bit annoyed, I would be absolutely furious! They lied to YO and took your lorry without your permission and they haven't even bothered to tell you, who the hell do they think they are 

I would ask to see her with the YO because you are both involved. I would tell her you are absolutely furious and taking without permission is actually theft and had they been stopped they would not have been insured plus you would have been in trouble because you don't have an operators licence.  If she didn't put fuel in I would be insisting she did and I would make it clear to YO, (who I presume has got a set of keys) that no one is to use your lorry in future.

You won't be causing an atmosphere, they are the ones who have created this situation. I can't believe the nerve of the woman


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## amandaco2 (23 February 2013)

I'd be telling them straight. What they have done is illegal and downright dangerous.
Not nice people at all.


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## Queenbee (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Have bit bullet and sent both ladies a text message saying need to see them tomorrow and why I want to see them. They are nice ladies - OP stop with the NICE!  You are giving me a head-desk moment!, I understand nine out of ten would be lividIncorrect, 10 out of 10 would be livid, but I can't cause ructionsYes, you can!  But the bottom line is with their behavior they have caused the ructions ,   It's not in my nature. The day they went in lorry was the day I was flying so phone was off for more than 16 hours...That is insignificant, it doesn't matter if you were flying or dead, they had no permission and should not have used it - at the very least I would have expected a flipping missed call from them to show they had tried to contact you I was out of contact all that day it is not their lorry, its yours, whichever way they or you try and truss this up they had no right to even consider doing such a thing!. There has to be an explanation or crossed wiresGod you are nice, trying for sainthood? BS you can't cross wires that flipping much!. I should not have let it go for 5 days without saying something. 
Am I making too many excuses!! yes xx Oh we'll I will muster up Dutch courage and confront them in the morning..
		
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Good luck, and just remember, if for one second you feel like you are the one apologising -  mentally slap yourself, there is absolutely no way they should feel even remotely in the right on this.


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## smellsofhorse (23 February 2013)

I would be fuming!

How dare they?!

Forget about worrying about causing bad feeling.
What they did was totally wrong and they need telling!

Would they have been covered by insurance?
What would have happened in an accident.
Damage to your lorry?


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## holeymoley (23 February 2013)

Oh dear. I think they're taking a loan of you I'm afraid  no way would I buy stuff for someone else to use!


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## Snoopy1 (23 February 2013)

Can I ask OP, why on earth has you YO got keys to YOUR lorry?  I would be removing them ASAP.  Sorry, really angry for you and I hope you sort it out


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## Queenbee (23 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Ok - tell them you are very dissapointed that they felt they value you so little that they could take advantage of you in this manner.  That there are plenty of horse transporters that they could have used.  You are embarresed on THEIR behalf of the lies they told the YO, and that they should be prepared for a bill when your lorry has been in for a check in the next few days.

Tell them that you will pass the full bill onto them, and then ask them not to even breath on any of your property again as any request to use something of yours will not be forthcoming.

Say that this has left a very bad feeling on the yard, and you do not wish to associate with liars, you expect an apology to the YO and to yourself.

(then hit them with the snow shovel)
		
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The above... Although Id hit them twice and YO once


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## Tiffany (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Have bit bullet and sent both ladies a text message saying need to see them tomorrow and why I want to see them. They are nice ladies, I understand nine out of ten would be livid, but I can't cause ructions ,   It's not in my nature. The day they went in lorry was the day I was flying so phone was off for more than 16 hours... I was out of contact all that day. There has to be an explanation or crossed wires. I should not have let it go for 5 days without saying something. 
Am I making too many excuses!!  Oh we'll I will muster up Dutch courage and confront them in the morning..
		
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Yes you are making excuses for them - they took your lorry without permission and without it they should not have taken it. Can't believe each of them thought the other had asked, they are obviously coming up with excuses together which is even more annoying. I'm an easy going person although for this I would have to speak to them and make it clear what they did is totally unacceptable and you are thinking of ringing police. That will make them think before doing this to anyone again.

If YO was away where did they get your keys from?


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## fjordhorsefan (23 February 2013)

Echo everyone else - they have driven illegally, and honestly I would report them.  If a speeding ticket arrives you will have to take it, as reporting theft after you get one will just cause problems for you.  

If someone ever took my lorry out without my permission I would most probably batter them to a pulp!


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## **Vanner** (23 February 2013)

Snow shovel all the way!!!!

I can't believe they did such a thing.  They're b**** lucky nothing happened!  

Turn on your bi**ch switch OP they need to know just how unbelievable their actions were!


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## Fairycupcake (23 February 2013)

Not sure if anyone else has said this but some thing doesnt seem right to me, I believe the YO knew you didnt give them permission to take the lorry and let them take it not thinking you would find out and just said make sure you fill it up etc. If she really thought that you had given them permission why how would she know they were considering calling your on holiday to ask to borrow the box? It doesnt make sense to me! I think you just need to see that people are taking advantage of you, YO to, and just say your not happy. You dont need to go in all guns blazing but some thing needs to be said, how can you let them affect you from going down to d your horse? Dont let it get like that! x


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## FfionWinnie (23 February 2013)

LOL @ Vanner "biatch switch"  (I need to find a way to switch mine off)


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## mandwhy (23 February 2013)

OP I understand your dislike of confrontation I really do but this is something anyone would be livid about, not one person has said 'oh I'm sure it was a misunderstanding' because it wasn't, they have no excuse. 

Did you have any missed calls, any voicemails, texts? The fact you were flying that day is completely irrelevant as you would know if they tried to contact you. It is also irrelevant because anyone that could not get in contact with you would think 'oh shame we can't borrow it, can't risk it as no insurance etc, we'll have to hire one' I mean, this at the very LEAST! 

I think you really need to write a letter based on facts and present it to them at this meeting. Say what you need to say and what you want in the letter, DO NOT let them talk you into submission, even if they are nice (but stupid, selfish, wreckless, inconsiderate....) ladies. 

You don't have to scream at them, you don't have to call them names. All you have to do is make it clear that what they have done is unacceptable on so many levels and they are very lucky you are not taking further action, and tell them what the consequences are going to be.

You need to point out that what they have done is illegal and fraudulent, point out that in the event of an accident they would have been liable for any damage, and that above all they have betrayed your trust, and there is no good reason for that when there are lorries available for hire, and drivers to drive them all over the country.

I would expect as a minimum money for fuel, the going rate for lorry hire and a massive apology, but I would probably go for the check on condition of the vehicle too because well, its that or let the police deal with them. 

It will probably make you feel a bit uncomfortable, but please don't let these people get away with it, you need to stand up for yourself somehow.


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## Tiffany (23 February 2013)

FfionWinnie said:



			LOL @ Vanner "biatch switch"  (I need to find a way to switch mine off)
		
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## Natch (23 February 2013)

Originally Posted by ROMANY 1959  
Have bit bullet and sent both ladies a text message saying need to see them tomorrow and why I want to see them. They are nice ladies - OP stop with the NICE! You are giving me a head-desk moment!, I understand nine out of ten would be lividIncorrect, 10 out of 10 would be livid, but I can't cause ructions Yes, you can! But the bottom line is with their behavior they have caused the ructions , It's not in my nature. The day they went in lorry was the day I was flying so phone was off for more than 16 hours...That is insignificant, it doesn't matter if you were flying or dead, they had no permission and should not have used it - at the very least I would have expected a flipping missed call from them to show they had tried to contact you I was out of contact all that day it is not their lorry, its yours, whichever way they or you try and truss this up they had no right to even consider doing such a thing!. There has to be an explanation or crossed wires God you are nice, trying for sainthood? BS you can't cross wires that flipping much!. I should not have let it go for 5 days without saying something. 
Am I making too many excuses!! yes xx Oh we'll I will muster up Dutch courage and confront them in the morning..




Queenbee said:



			Good luck, and just remember, if for one second you feel like you are the one apologising -  mentally slap yourself, there is absolutely no way they should feel even remotely in the right on this.
		
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What Queenbee said, exactly. For goodness sake Romany, MAN UP! The normal course of action if someone cannot get hold of the person whose lorry they wish to borrow, is to borrow one from someone else, to hire one, or to make arrangements to wait until they CAN get hold of you. It is utterly irresponsible for them to have lied to the YO in order to get hold of your keys and to STEAL the lorry to take it for a joyride. 

*STOP BEING A DOORMAT. *

The explaination you are seeking, is that they took your lorry without your permission. It wasn't life or death, it wasn't acceptable and there were other perfectly appropriate choices they could have made. End. Of. Story. No dressing it up, no sainthood.

Yes this is a harsh post, you need the kick up the bum!


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## Doublethyme (23 February 2013)

Completely agree with everything said, I would have to be restrained if it was me, livid wouldn't cover it.

Also if they needed the lorry to pick up a new horse, that kind of requirement surely doesn't come out of the blue. You go see said new horse, come home, make arrangements, we are talking days to make a call asking permission for the box, not just the convenient period when they probably knew you would be flying and uncontactable.

It's all bullshit and you seriously need to find Vanner's bitch switch. Go for the jugular, honest you'll feel so much better....


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## Honey08 (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			One of them just phoned me and she was so so sorry, she thought other lady had asked me and visa versa.. We are having a meeting in the morning. Oh it's all been such a worry.. She said they did fuel up lorry, and I can't see any damage to it. YO was away for the weekend but assumed they had phoned me!!! 
It won't happen again, once bitten ect.
		
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Oh right, of course, that all makes sense now....  Come on, are you for real!!  Wouldn't they check with each other to make sure one had actually asked??  Ad as someone had said, wouldn't they have thanked you profusely on your return?


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## JellyBeanSkittle (23 February 2013)

If this was my lorry they had taken.. they would now be under it. How bloody cheeky! Hope you get a damn good apology and reimbursement at the very lest OP.


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## Littlelegs (23 February 2013)

Ok op, consider it like this. These ladies probably had a conversation prior to taking your lorry, about what a mug you were, & how clever they were to save the cost of paying to hire one, & no doubt are laughing now at how gullible you are to believe it was a mix up. Don't let them get away with it.


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## ihatework (23 February 2013)

OP, 3 words of advice. GROW SOME BALLS


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## Roasted Chestnuts (23 February 2013)

Im beginning to think this is a wind up.

I dont know ANYONE no matter how polite or non-confrontational that wouldnt go postal about this and have balls on platters.

Thinking Im hearing hooves on the birdge and Im the first to defend potential trolls.........


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## Natch (23 February 2013)

Of COURSE they would, Honey08. 

The conversation would have gone like this:

"Shall we borrow Romany's lorry?"

"Yeah, we'd better ask her. I'll do it tonight."

And then it would have gone:  

"Did Romany say it was okay to borrow the lorry?"

"Yes she did, isn't she kind, let's get her some flowers to say thanks when she gets back"

And after that it would have gone,

"Hi YO, can we borrow the keys to Romany's lorry please, we have asked for her permission and it's fine".

Somebody is spinning you a yarn, and treating you like a doormat.  And you're acting like one


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## **Vanner** (23 February 2013)

P.S. WHAT THEY DID WAS ILLEGAL!!!!

"Taking without owners consent - theft act 1968 - section 12" google it!

You need to report it even if you don't persue it as that would give you a record from the police just in case there's a speeding ticket or other!


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## fine_and_dandy (23 February 2013)

You need to man up I'm afraid. Of course they seem, 'nice' OP, they are able to nick your lorry and get away from it.

Whether you dislike confrontation or not, this is too far. You've found out about this - what haven't you found out about? It doesn't matter that your phone was off because you were flying. Stop making excuses.

Of course they are sorry, they got found out. Easy to blame the other and say it was all, "crossed wires."

Get the lorry in for a full work up to check all ok. Find out where they went, work out the mileage and charge the cost of the diesel for the trip as wear and tear. Find out how much that trip depreciated your lorry's value and charge it. Bill them for the lot of it and explain that is the consequence of their actions. Charge them for what it would have been to hire your lorry.

Also explain that taking without consent (TWOC) is a criminal offence. They wouldn't have been covered by insurance, which is another offence, or if they took insurance and claimed they had your permission then there's fraud. Plus any licence offences.

I would then make the point that you are considering reporting this to the police. You are hurt and disappointed they have so little respect for you and your property.

Frankly, you are asking for much more if you don't sort this now, and will end up in more confrontation trying to resolve it because you didn't act sooner.

Harsh, but I wouldn't stand for it.


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## russianhorse (23 February 2013)

christine48 said:



			You need to speak to them, they weren't insured to drive it. Thankfully nothing happened. They need to reimburse you for diesel & wear & tear ( going rate is about £1.50 per mile). If they don't agree to this, then I would threaten them with reporting them to the police. Taking a vehicle without the owner's permission and driving without valid insurance.
		
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 ^ THIS

& I have to tell you, Id be ALOT more than just a "bit annoyed" - Id be baying for blood


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## ROMANY 1959 (23 February 2013)

Ok. Took all on board. We are all having a meeting tomorrow . YO was not there that weekend, that I have been assured of, and she has a set of keys cos sometimes has to move my lorry to get others ones out. It's not a wind up at all. It happened and I found out when I got home.. So I will deal with it best I can. I have wrote few things on paper taken from some of your advice. I have often been told I need assertive training, I can't help it though I am the original ostrich with head in sand, then I crawl away to fret cos I've not said anything, those of you with the balls!! Don't know what it can be like to be a wimp. 
I never wished this post to go viral. 
Thanks for comments .


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## LittleGinger (23 February 2013)

Totally agree with what everyone else has said. OP, I hate confrontation too BUT I would be saying this:



Gingerwitch said:



			Ok - tell them you are very dissapointed that they felt they value you so little that they could take advantage of you in this manner.  That there are plenty of horse transporters that they could have used.  You are embarresed on THEIR behalf of the lies they told the YO, and that they should be prepared for a bill when your lorry has been in for a check in the next few days.
		
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And yes, I would be rehearsing it in the car on the way over and I would be panicking and probably a bit shaky when I confronted them, but I'd do it. Because taking another person's belongings is NOT ON.



ROMANY 1959 said:



			One of them just phoned me and she was so so sorry, she thought other lady had asked me and visa versa.
		
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No, I'm sorry - I don't believe it. SURELY any decent person would CHECK with the other person whilst making arrangements -e.g. "I'll give R a ring later and text you what she says." or something like "did you ask R?" "No - didn't you?"

They started borrowing small barrows etc. and now they're borrowing your lorry? For a horse which presumably they knew about in advance and therefore could have booked a lorry? They were just too cheap to pay for it by the sounds of things. And if it WAS an emergency, which could be understandable, there's no reason at all for them not to be thanking you profusely for your part in saving said horse. Avoiding the subject for the past few days just waves every red flag I can think of!

Finally: 



FfionWinnie said:



			I tow trailers for a living and am very experienced at driving large vans etc but I still managed to clip a kerb when I drove a 3.5t box for the first time. If they have only driven cars before they WILL have been burning the clutch and clipping things!
		
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Same. Driving a 3.5T with horse in it takes practice. Chances are you will make a few mistakes the first time - I drove mine around empty for months before I put a horse in it! Even now, it's battered and it's old but it's MINE for me and MY horses and if something goes wrong I want to know why; if I damage the box I want to know so I can fix it; not wonder what I'm not being told that could have led to potential problems being fixed. (The first time I drove it for instance I clipped the curb  - sounds amusing BUT it cost £150 to replace the tyre as it was damaged.) Obviously they may well be better drivers than me and it might be fine but my (serious) point is that if I hadn't known about that and taken it straight to a garage, the front tyre on the passenger side would have blown the next time I drove the box as I'd damaged it when I scraped it. Wouldn't have been at all funny or silly then.

I'm going to stop now because I think I am just repeating everyone else and I can feel my blood boiling for you, so I'm going to stop and get a glass of wine! OP, I suggest you do the same  and plan what you're going to say to the ladies you describe as "nice" who would, sadly, probably describe you as a pushover - apologies.


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## LittleGinger (23 February 2013)

That's the longest post I've ever written!


Good luck tomorrow OP. Just remember, the ONLY time you should apologise is when saying the phrase "I'm sorry, but I don't believe that you both thought the other had asked. I believe that you were taking advantage..."


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## ILuvCowparsely (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Went on holiday for 2 weeks. Got home to find out , by chance I might say, that two other liveries told yard owner they had permission to use my lorry to go 6 hour round trip to collect a horse. !!!  I was very upset to think what may have happened, as its only me and yo and my mate who use it for pony club and hunting. 
Was just having conversation about where all fuel goes to and it all came out bout this jolly in my lorry... I don't really know how to approach the lady when I see her, I am one for a quiet life, and don't fuss at all, but this was out of order. I have spoke to YO and she assumed they had spoke to me themselves or she would never have given them the key. YO very sorry about it, I may well have said yes  if yO drove, but they drove themselves, and have never driven a lorry b4!! 
What would you do? What should I say, ? Can't bear to cause bad feeling on the yard. 
It would not have taken much to phone me and ask, yes I was 3000 miles away but it's not really on is it.
		
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Sorry  I would be furious.  I would have words with these two.  For one thing your insurance would not have covered them in the event of accident.  I would give them a bill for the fuel, keep my keys at home in future.  This is not on, imagine if thy had caused accident.

 Sorry I would not let this go without confronting the 2 guilty party.


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## Shysmum (23 February 2013)

haven't read all the replies, because I would be in orbit by now. If you want to use something - ASK, OR BUY YOUR OWN !!!!!!!


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## Echo Bravo (23 February 2013)

Get a grip as if your horsebox had been in an accident you would have been liable, as it's you horsebox and your insurance would have been cancelled, so just man up and take them to court because they actually stole your lorry.


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## Spotsrock (23 February 2013)

Ditto report to police for taking without consent. Otherwise you are permitting them to drive your vehicle illegally. Seeming nice is the front con artists like this use to get away with things. Be brave. Stay calm but be firm. Practice the phrase, if I can just finish what I am saying without interruption, thank you.


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## ILuvCowparsely (23 February 2013)

I am with GW.  I spend a fortune on my Horsebox.  I hate anyone else driving it (which is only mechanic) when he need to plate it.

   It is theft and should be treated as such.

Hire of horse box for the day      £ 150 
wear and tear                              £   60
fuel @ £ 1 per mile                       £  xxxx
taking without permission            £ 100
putting other road users at risk    £ 100
Total                                              xxxxxxx

 I would be using a lot of language some  *X* rated
 I would be having stern words about taking without permission 
 I would warn them never ever touch my lorry again or I would report them to police.
Mt keys would be at home in the future  not even for YO to use as they ball's ed it up.

*
 Just had another thought!!!!  say for example something did happen on the journey to or from  their destination like knocking a cyclist off or speed camera  photo or  they have  clipped another vehicle !! and they have not said anything to anyone this could still come and bite you on the bum. 

 If you do not report it you will be liable, as the fuzz will say well why did you not report it???
*


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## Bubley898 (23 February 2013)

Report to police. This is TWOC!


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## Doug (23 February 2013)

It might have been covered before (it has been a long day and I am not reading 11 pages) but the offence that has been committed is commonly referred to as TWOC (Taking Without Owners Consent). This can apply to any form of vehicle (even a push bike!)

Here is a Wiki link which will help explain it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWOC

A large part is proving the mens rea evidence. But in this case the defendant/livery knew that they did not have permission to take the vehicle and this can be evidenced by the fact she will not have any written consent and both you and the YO would be happy to sign a statement that suggests she had got the keys through deceit.

I would personally hand her a bill for the wear and tear plus fuel used. HMRC approved rate for Cars/Vans (business) is 45p per mile. So you could add a % increase on to that for the size of the vehicle quite legitimately.

Don't threaten her with going to the police if she doesn't pay the bill, as that's blackmail 
Just suggest that she should be thankful you are just asking for repayment rather than taking her to court for the costs as well as her having a few blemishes on her driving record! Although you should bear in mind that if it's not reported to the police any speeding points or parking charges etc will be landing on your doormat!


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## piebaldsparkle (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			We are all having a meeting tomorrow .
		
Click to expand...

Smile sweetly and tell them its fine, no need to explain to you as they didn't bother asking permission, they can explain to the police  - Why they took a vehicle without permission and drove it with no insurance?  

Let the cheeky bitches have sleepless nights like you have had.  TBH I would have no qualms reporting them, incase there are any speeding/driving offenses/parking fines heading your way.


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## Pinkvboots (23 February 2013)

I would be asking for fuel money, check you lorry over for damage, and why the hell did the yo give your keys to them without you saying so, she should have called you, what p**s takers.


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## Tiffany (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Ok. Took all on board. We are all having a meeting tomorrow . YO was not there that weekend, that I have been assured of, and she has a set of keys cos sometimes has to move my lorry to get others ones out. It's not a wind up at all. It happened and I found out when I got home.. So I will deal with it best I can. I have wrote few things on paper taken from some of your advice. I have often been told I need assertive training, I can't help it though I am the original ostrich with head in sand, then I crawl away to fret cos I've not said anything, those of you with the balls!! Don't know what it can be like to be a wimp. 
I never wished this post to go viral. 
Thanks for comments .
		
Click to expand...

If YO was away how did these 'nice' ladies get your keys?????????


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## Regandal (23 February 2013)

I think the OP should be commended for screwing up her courage and arranging this meeting.  I think we should support and bolster her confidence, not just be outraged on her behalf.  Well done, Romany. Remember we're all rooting for you.  M


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## YorksG (23 February 2013)

There is also another interesting point here, you are now aware that these women committed an offence, and it was joint enterprise, so doesn't matter which one drove. How do you know that they didn't run someone over with your lorry? I think you are going to have to report this to the police, as  you now know about it, as otherwise how are you going to deal with any other offences they may have committed, as you were out of the country and presumably can proove this. What a mess these two 'nice' women have made!


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## christine48 (23 February 2013)

YorksG said:



			There is also another interesting point here, you are now aware that these women committed an offence, and it was joint enterprise, so doesn't matter which one drove. How do you know that they didn't run someone over with your lorry? I think you are going to have to report this to the police, as  you now know about it, as otherwise how are you going to deal with any other offences they may have committed, as you were out of the country and presumably can proove this. What a mess these two 'nice' women have made!
		
Click to expand...

I think this is true, in order to cover yourself maybe you should report it in case they've committed a motoring offence.


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

Look - hit em with the snow shovel - would make you feel much better - if they phone the police to report you for hitting them with the snow shovel, then their TWOC will come out and they will be in even more trouble than you - so they wont phone the police, therefore hit them with the snow shovel twice


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## DragonSlayer (23 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Look - hit em with the snow shovel - would make you feel much better - if they phone the police to report you for hitting them with the snow shovel, then their TWOC will come out and they will be in even more trouble than you - so they wont phone the police, therefore hit them with the snow shovel twice 

Click to expand...

Bahahahahahahaha!


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## Natch (23 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Ok. Took all on board. We are all having a meeting tomorrow . YO was not there that weekend, that I have been assured of, and she has a set of keys cos sometimes has to move my lorry to get others ones out.
		
Click to expand...

If YO was not there that weekend then as Tiffany said, how did they get the keys?



ROMANY 1959 said:



			I have spoke to YO and she assumed they had spoke to me themselves or she would never have given them the key. YO very sorry about it,
		
Click to expand...

This reads as if YO gave them the key...? 



ROMANY 1959 said:



			those of you with the balls!! Don't know what it can be like to be a wimp. 
I never wished this post to go viral. 
Thanks for comments .
		
Click to expand...

A lot of us with the balls have been wimps in the past and have had to learn to have the balls the hard way  I know that you know you need to grow them very quickly before tomorrow. I hope it goes well and that you are able to put across that you are very annoyed without apologising or backing down. I think as long as you remember that you are absolutely within your rights and they are absolutely in the wrong no matter what story is told, you won't go far wrong. Best of luck for tomorrow, please let us know how it goes


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## YorksG (23 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Look - hit em with the snow shovel - would make you feel much better - if they phone the police to report you for hitting them with the snow shovel, then their TWOC will come out and they will be in even more trouble than you - so they wont phone the police, therefore hit them with the snow shovel twice 

Click to expand...


Our snow shovel would be no good, it's plastic, I would go with the spade, which is heavy and has an edge


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## Toby_Zaphod (23 February 2013)

As other members have said there is a clear case of Unlawful taking of a Motor Vehicle. Additionally, wether your insurance covers them to drive or not, there is the offence of using the lorry without insurance as they drove the lorry without your permission & the lorry would not be insured. The No Insurance offence is for both of them & this is what is called 'An Absolute Offence' so both are guilty of this. It is up to them to prove they had insurance in law & they can never do this as the vehicle had been taken without consent & thus could not be insured. 

The story that each believed that the other had got permission from you is absolute rubbish & would never be accepted in court. I wouldn't give this issue another thought, I would report it straight to the police & let them accept the consequences of their actions.  You say they are nice ladies, well they are not, they are walking all over you to do this & showing you no respect at all. Don't let them get away with this.


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

YorksG said:



			Our snow shovel would be no good, it's plastic, I would go with the spade, which is heavy and has an edge 

Click to expand...

Arh but the beauty of the snow shovel is the speed in which you can connect with !

and it makes a wonderful wooshhhhhh and then the smack of plastic on skin......

it truely is a sound to behold!


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## Natch (23 February 2013)

A pitchfork would be my weapon of choice...


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## Spiritedly (23 February 2013)

YorksG said:



			There is also another interesting point here, you are now aware that these women committed an offence, and it was joint enterprise, so doesn't matter which one drove. How do you know that they didn't run someone over with your lorry? I think you are going to have to report this to the police, as  you now know about it, as otherwise how are you going to deal with any other offences they may have committed, as you were out of the country and presumably can proove this. What a mess these two 'nice' women have made!
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this...these two women could have been caught on camera speeding, running a light, they may have been reported for driving erratically and the first you'll know of it is when the letter drops through your door advising you of your fine or court date!
I would contact the police and tell them what's happened, they can then log that you weren't around at the time and also have words with the two women explaining exactly how many laws they have broken.


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

Natch said:



			A pitchfork would be my weapon of choice...
		
Click to expand...

Good choice Natch but..... with my mangled ankle it would be too hard to put sufficient weight to pull the forks back out of the first backside to be able to shove into the 2nd backside.... so snow shovel still has it for me


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## piebaldsparkle (23 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Look - hit em with the snow shovel - would make you feel much better - if they phone the police to report you for hitting them with the snow shovel, then their TWOC will come out and they will be in even more trouble than you - so they wont phone the police, therefore hit them with the snow shovel twice 

Click to expand...


Whilst this made me LOL, it is quite hard to hit someone with a snow shovel as it has it is light, and has a large flat area.  This causes a lot of wind resistance.   Thus for lamping a regular spade is far more effective!

**Purely speaking physics and have not tested the merits of either a spade or a snow shovel as a battering implement (no one has ever 'borrowed' my lorry)!**


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## Gingerwitch (23 February 2013)

But its the suprise effect of the snow shovel that leads to greater use by me.... no one quite expects to be socked with a snow shovel.... a brush yes - but the head usually breaks off on inpact so is difficult for the 2nd blow.... spade/shovel..... could kill or maime - more of a warning given to the lorry borrower.... snow shovel.... innocent looking object.....


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## dafthoss (24 February 2013)

If it were me and I hate confrontation, I'd call the police now explaining the situation. Then tomorrow morning when you have your meeting you can inform them that as they have broken several laws and have waited so long before they told you the police have been informed and it is now a police matter, you want no more to do with them, they are not to touch any of your stuff no matter how small and that you look forward to seeing them in court. 

No arguing, no appologies from you and no listening to their excuses. Do it before they make you change your mind. 

I got to the point where my horse was hurt before I grew a pair and if I can do it so can you.

ETA my weapon of choice would be a shot gun


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2013)

dafthoss said:



			If it were me and I hate confrontation, I'd call the police now 

ETA my weapon of choice would be a shot gun 

Click to expand...

Urm shotgun.... bit messy if your a decent shot... to much clearing up to do...... and the 2nd one may freak before you get a 2nd shot off.....

snow shovel.... well you were just batting of a fly weren't you ?


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## Athena055 (24 February 2013)

Nice people my arse, they have commited a crime even by saying that you'll scare the wits out of them. This is taking without owners consent. Doesn't matter if they said that they said you could the YO should of checked with you first as there is insurance cover etc......Geeeee I would charge them for fuel, everything!!! I would of even of taken a trip to the YO and told her to tell them 'nice ladies' to leave and never come back.


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## dafthoss (24 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Urm shotgun.... bit messy if your a decent shot... to much clearing up to do...... and the 2nd one may freak before you get a 2nd shot off.....

snow shovel.... well you were just batting of a fly weren't you ? 

Click to expand...

Nahh get them lined up and you can get them both with one shot I recon  and you could get the second one whilst they run without having to move, a snow shovel would involve running after the second one. 


Sorry was an accident.... I didnt realise it was loaded just like they didnt realise they didnt have permission to take my lorry. Or I thought they were dogs annoying my live stock... then I realised they were just b!!tiches


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## YorksG (24 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Urm shotgun.... bit messy if your a decent shot... to much clearing up to do...... and the 2nd one may freak before you get a 2nd shot off.....

snow shovel.... well you were just batting of a fly weren't you ? 

Click to expand...

Bit of a problem there, snow and flies don't tend to be around at the same time, so could be a bit tricky to use that as a defence


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## FinnishLapphund (24 February 2013)

*YorksG*, I used to think that too, but I'm pretty sure I've seen a nature documentary where there was a fly that could live in snow. Although from a defence point of view, that might not help, because I don't remember which country they were filming in, so maybe you need to be in Russia or something for the excuse to work.   






 


*ROMANY 1959*, putting together a possible scenario from the other replies, what if you had loaded your horse on your lorry tomorrow, drove off and a tyre blew due to them having bumped into something with that tyre when they used it without your permission, and you and your horse had been injured, how would you have felt then? 
Enough upset to realise that a woman doesn't need any balls, we have a p*ssy,  a snow shovel and if that fails, we know how to use our claws.


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## trottingon (24 February 2013)

OP i agree wirh all that has been said, so wont repeat it all yet again, however, ask yourself this... if these nice ladies needed their horse collecting and weren't able to sort transport, why couldn't they have waited a day or two until you were back off holiday to ask you properly?

Even if you generally have believed them to be reasonable people up to now, if they can't even afford their own wheelbarrow would they really have been able to get their hands on £10,000 or whatever is the full value of your box to buy you a replacement one immediately if they had crashed it, because it doesn't look to me like any insurance company would have paid out!!! No, I thought not!  You would have been sorely inconvenienced and no doubt out of pocket by some or all of the value, and left without transport whilst it all got sorted.

They have behaved completely out of order with complete disregard for yourself, and they need to be told this in no uncertain terms. 

They should have approached you as soon as you returned to thank you if either of them thought they had your permission, and the fact that they didn't do that suggests to me they hoped they'd got away with it and we're planning on staying quiet!  

They are not your friends, by their own actions they don't deserve to be treated nicely, they are nothing short of lying scum.


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## Kaylum (24 February 2013)

Lets hope you dont get a speeding ticket or worse.


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## Irishbabygirl (24 February 2013)

Oh dear op - missed this thread last night but just caught up. I'm not very confrontational either, anything for an easy life, but in your meeting tomorrow I would definitely be saying that you will be forced to inform the police for reasons others have mentioned - weather you do or not is obviously up to you but its a good threat if nothing else.
It's been five days and you've only just found out - they had no intention of ever telling you about this. Tell them how upset you are - upset is better than angry when you're a worry bum...good luck


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## dollymix (24 February 2013)

Disgusting behaviour! How dare they!!!!!!! Quite right to be livid!!!

I had a similar thing once when another livery told YO I had given her permission to hack my horse (I hadn't!) - lets just say we did fall out about if!


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## OldNag (24 February 2013)

Well what a bloomjng cheek. I really empathise with you, Op, as I hate confrontation. But you don't have a choice. Please remember that is their actions that led to you taking whatever action you take. 
I di think yiu need to get lorry checked over, and they need to pay the bill.
Yes to Police also.
And my vote would be fir snow shovel. But if you only have one of those plastic ones then it won't be heavy enough, you need something good and solid.
Although it does occur to me that if OP does in fact bash these two ladies. Let's hope the Police don't see this forum. Conspiracy to murder and all that ....!!


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## FfionWinnie (24 February 2013)

YorksG said:



			Our snow shovel would be no good, it's plastic, I would go with the spade, which is heavy and has an edge 

Click to expand...

Just go the whole hog and drop the lorry ramp on their heads!!!

Seriously tho OP I think you must report this to the police to cover your own back. You don't have to pursue them legally but definitely needs reported.


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## mcnaughty (24 February 2013)

OP - take a deep breath - you don't need to get angry or nasty with them but you DO need to tell them how upset you were about this - how you have lost sleep and got very stressed.  Tell them that you do not want to make hard feeling but at least a text message would have been good (even after the event!).  I would be more worried about the fact that seemingly they all tried to cover it up - when were they going to tell you?

Anyway, word of advice - you could make this work in your favour.  How much fuel is left in the lorry compared to when you left it?  Ask them to fill it up again and so more said - that way you get a full tank, they got very cheap transport in an emergency and no harm was actually done.  Hey presto you will have a couple of outings when the weather gets nice on them!!

Oh and make sure the YO is fully aware of how badly she behaved - yet again you do not have to go in all shouty in fact playing the "I was so upset" card is actually far more effective!!

Best of luck x


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (24 February 2013)

Im not agreeing with what these girls did. It was hardly an urgent trip that couldn't take the time to make an appointment with the local transporter however i have borrowed a trailer myself without permission.
My neighbour (field) was letting me use it to take magic to and from the vet, everytime id ask a week in advance, and she said it was fine, id also pick up some chocolate and a bottle of wine on the return trip for her.
Anyway one day magic got a nosebleed, i called the vet, she asked the usually 'has he rolled, hit his head ect' but he hadn't i had been standing next to him and it had just happened, she said after 20 mins if it hadnt stopped we had a problem. She asked me to come in. The vets box was out so i had no choice, i called and called my neighbour, went to her house everything but no one was home, i started freaking out when her son came home, i explained, he threw the keys and my and said go go! Thankfully we made the trip, magic was admitted and y neighbour said it was the right thing to do.
Needless to say she was inundated with wine, chocolate and favours for a long time after!!


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## FfionWinnie (24 February 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			Im not agreeing with what these girls did. It was hardly an urgent trip that couldn't take the time to make an appointment with the local transporter however i have borrowed a trailer myself without permission.
My neighbour (field) was letting me use it to take magic to and from the vet, everytime id ask a week in advance, and she said it was fine, id also pick up some chocolate and a bottle of wine on the return trip for her.
Anyway one day magic got a nosebleed, i called the vet, she asked the usually 'has he rolled, hit his head ect' but he hadn't i had been standing next to him and it had just happened, she said after 20 mins if it hadnt stopped we had a problem. She asked me to come in. The vets box was out so i had no choice, i called and called my neighbour, went to her house everything but no one was home, i started freaking out when her son came home, i explained, he threw the keys and my and said go go! Thankfully we made the trip, magic was admitted and y neighbour said it was the right thing to do.
Needless to say she was inundated with wine, chocolate and favours for a long time after!!
		
Click to expand...

But that's a different situation entirely!


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## Bubley898 (24 February 2013)

A trailer is different to a lorry. The trailer owner would not get speeding tickets etc, J&M your circumstances are more understandable.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (24 February 2013)

I suppose. Im not lucky enough to have a trailer or a lorry but i'd blow my top if someone stole it. Which is technically, stealing is what it is.


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## horsesatemymoney (24 February 2013)

I'd tell them this morning that you've known for days and have given them the chance to speak to you, they haven't, so it is now with the police. No confrontation for you, very polite, and it protects you firm any offences they've done. It's not on op I'd be taking yo keys too as she doesn't appear to be doing much to help- she could have thrown them off the yard if she was that bothered.


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## touchstone (24 February 2013)

horsesatemymoney said:



			I'd tell them this morning that you've known for days and have given them the chance to speak to you, they haven't, so it is now with the police. No confrontation for you, very polite, and it protects you firm any offences they've done. It's not on op I'd be taking yo keys too as she doesn't appear to be doing much to help- she could have thrown them off the yard if she was that bothered.
		
Click to expand...

I'd go along with this, I get the strong impression that the YO is in on this too, I can just imagaine them all getting together and saying how you wouldn't mind or do anything as you are so easily placated by them being 'nice'.
If you don't respect yourself and your belongings enough to confront people who take advantage, then it will continue and you'll be taken for a fool.

You need to get mad and stand up for yourself, you don't have to get abusive, but I'd certainly be laying the law down and saying that for your own protection the police will be involved for taking without consent.

Then get some snow on your nose and let them do the grovelling although it may be that their true colours shine through.   'Nice' people don't use other people's possessions without permission, and they don't lie about thinking the other person had ok'd it.


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Look - hit em with the snow shovel - would make you feel much better - if they phone the police to report you for hitting them with the snow shovel, then their TWOC will come out and they will be in even more trouble than you - so they wont phone the police, therefore hit them with the snow shovel twice 

Click to expand...

well at least with a red snow shovel you wont notice the mess when the shovel makes a slugsh sound and covered in blood.

I would hit the back first then just for good measure hit the front.


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## touchstone (24 February 2013)

Leviathan said:



			well at least with a red snow shovel you wont notice the mess when the shovel makes a slugsh sound and covered in blood.

I would hit the back first then just for good measure hit the front.
		
Click to expand...

Or run them over with the lorry and say the last person to use it must have left the handbrake off.


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## Turks (24 February 2013)

Don't worry about speeding tickets - you can prove you we're out of the country! Yes - an admin pain and you would have to name them as drivers then and then it's up to them. No need to report to police to protect yourself in that respect. Parking tickets different matter I'm afraid!

Re taking a vehicle without owners consent - both driver and passenger can be liable but have to prove that they knew they didn't have that consent. They _might_be able to wriggle out of it if they stick to the "I thought you'd asked" line. 

It's not blackmail to threaten to report matter to police if they don't pay up reasonable costs - this is not an "unwarranted demand". If you don't want to report matter straight away you can keep this in your back pocket as a bit of leverage 

Given that you don't like confrontation this might be your best option - ask for reasonable cover of costs and keep police in back pocket if they play you up...

Deal with this well and it will give you more confidence to be assertive next time. Keep us posted and all the best


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## Spyda (24 February 2013)

skint1 said:



			True story. Wouldn't you thank someone who had been so kind? I know I would.
		
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I've been thinking! Have they been passing you on the yard and not mentioning it? And what about the new horse? Is it at your yard? If so, surely they would have had cause to get chatting and thank you for letting them have use of your lorry to collect it?!


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## Spyda (24 February 2013)

Fairycupcake said:



			Not sure if anyone else has said this but some thing doesnt seem right to me,* I believe the YO knew you didnt give them permission to take the lorry and let them take it not thinking you would find out and just said make sure you fill it up etc.* If she really thought that you had given them permission why how would she know they were considering calling your on holiday to ask to borrow the box? It doesnt make sense to me! I think you just need to see that people are taking advantage of you, YO to, and just say your not happy. You dont need to go in all guns blazing but some thing needs to be said, how can you let them affect you from going down to d your horse? Dont let it get like that! x
		
Click to expand...

Distinct possibility that YO had an incling. Surely she would have expected you to mention that'd you'd given someone permission to use your lorry in your absence? Surely? Had it been me, and I'd been YO, I wouldn't have passed over the keys without _certainty_. Surely even she would have thought of the implications on her had something untoward happened whilst the lorry was being borrowed in your absence? Would love to know what the 3 of them would have done if something had gone wrong


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## Noodlebug (24 February 2013)

I feel angry just reading this  I would go mad if someone took my lorry and unless you say something they will probably do it again!


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

OH said for the mileage of of a lorry, you should charge AT LEAST £4 a mile, doesn't matter if they put fuel in, its miles on your clock.....


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

Fuel consumption I mean, for the mileage!


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## Luci07 (24 February 2013)

One thing missing which no other posters have picked up. They could not call as OP was out of touch for 16 hours travelling. So.......why did they wait till she was away? 

Agree the letter is a good idea. Also OP, you now know how they regard you. They didn't even say THANK YOU when you got home.  Clearly demonstrate a complete lack of regard for you.

Alternatively if you are concerned, let us speak for you. Print this and take it with you to your meeting.


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## horsesatemymoney (24 February 2013)

How did you get on, OP?


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

-is biting nails anxiously-


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## FfionWinnie (24 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			-is biting nails anxiously-
		
Click to expand...

Me too keep coming on to check!


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## smellsofhorse (24 February 2013)

I want to know what happened too!


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## Scotslad23 (24 February 2013)

Get her nicked, she has broken the law.

TWOC - Taking without consent is the offence. Call the police.


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## Toast (24 February 2013)

Jesus wept.. its no wonder these 'nice ladies' went for a jolly in your lorry. They evidently knew you wouldn't say anything!! Judging by the fact your YO hasn't sent them packing suggests to me that she knew they hadn't asked you and thought nobody would ever know. 
I hope you grew some balls overnight for your sake!!!
I would've exploded. Police would've been called, there would've been much raging and nashing of teeth and i would've presented them with a hefty invoice.


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2013)

I think the OP has commited a crime too 

The PTNO..... Posted, then no update...... 

maybe she has hit them with a snow shovel which has started a full out brawl like on the old western days.....


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## horsesatemymoney (24 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			I think the OP has commited a crime too 

The PTNO..... Posted, then no update...... 

maybe she has hit them with a snow shovel which has started a full out brawl like on the old western days.....   

Click to expand...

Maybe they 'borrowed' the snow shovel aswell!


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## Scotslad23 (24 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			I think the OP has commited a crime too 

The PTNO..... Posted, then no update...... 

maybe she has hit them with a snow shovel which has started a *full out brawl like on the old western days*.....   

Click to expand...

Had one of these this morning with another livery ..... it was not pretty and i think i shook the stable foundations I shouted and swore so loudly


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## dianchi (24 February 2013)

News?????????


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## Tobiano (24 February 2013)

hi Romany.  Just seen this and read all the way through. POOR YOU!   I know exactly what you mean about confrontation and bad feeling etc.  I was feeling sick just reading through the posts and thinking how I would be feeling if I had to say something!

well done for starting the process.  If you have spoken to them today I really hope it has gone well for you.  Nothing more constructive I can think of to say except (((((hugs)))))) and give yourself a massive bottle of wine as congratulations for putting your point across.  x x


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## noodle_ (24 February 2013)

keeping bumped!!! want to know the outcome!!!


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## Holly Hocks (24 February 2013)

Romany - just read this thread - if you don't like confrontation, just call the police and report them for TWOC, then let the Police deal with it - otherwise grow a spine and confront them - and don't be nice.  They are in the wrong and you are in the right - stand your ground and tell them you are still thinking of whether you should report the crime to the Police or not. 

I keep thinking about if I were in a similar position.  If someone had borrowed it to pick a horse up or go to a show without my permission I would be furious and I would have no hesitation in reporting them.


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Oh gosh... I got impression from others at yard today that they were desperate to get this horse, and said they would phone me but I was in USA and didn't have phone on all days..
		
Click to expand...

There you are, they couldn't get hold of you.

Ok, they should not have done it, but, come on, it's not the end of the world, just have a little word to say you're not that happy about the situation and then carry on as normal. No one died!


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## 3Beasties (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			There you are, they couldn't get hold of you.

Ok, they should not have done it, but, come on, it's not the end of the world, just have a little word to say you're not that happy about the situation and then carry on as normal. No one died!
		
Click to expand...

Not being able to get hold of someone is no excuse to take a lorry (or anything else for that matter) without permission.

The only time this could possibly be acceptable was if it was a life and death situation (which this doesn't sound like it is), but even then I think I'd still be fairly miffed!


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Calling the police is a complete over reaction, a waste of t heir time and I doubt they'll be in the least bit interested. 

What an hysterical bunch there are on this forum!


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## 3Beasties (24 February 2013)

Slightly foxed are you one of the liveries/YO?


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Calling the police is a complete over reaction, a waste of t heir time and I doubt they'll be in the least bit interested. 

What an hysterical bunch there are on this forum!
		
Click to expand...

...words fail me.....


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## Delicious_D (24 February 2013)

You are being a bit of a whimp 
What if they had been in an accident and an innocent party got really hurt or even killed? They would not have been insured....

I dont think the YO is innocent in this. You hadnt told her yourself they could borrow it, she is partly to blame. Personally i would move yards as the trust is gone.


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

...or perhaps you think it's OK to take a vehicle without permission onto the highway? What the heck would you do if you crashed it, and worse....killed someone?


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## Elsiecat (24 February 2013)

Slightly foxed, you're an idiot.


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Slightly foxed, you're an idiot.
		
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Come over here and say that


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

We could do with the opinion of an actual police officer on this. Do we have any on the forum??


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## Elsiecat (24 February 2013)

Oh do shut up!


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## glamourpuss (24 February 2013)

I've read the thread but not replied before now......but Slightly Foxed you are a grade 1 idiot, you really are.

No harm done.... over reaction by members wanting to call the police....really it's surprising people like Slightly Foxed have got the intelligence to remember to breathe 

Well by the same token Slightly Foxed, nothing should've been done about MP's fiddling their expenses.....I mean there was no harm done.
Shall I come & take your car for a jolly for 6 hours? I'll return it but I won't tell you at the time. You won't mind surely?

What a pillock


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## mutley75 (24 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			OH said for the mileage of of a lorry, you should charge AT LEAST £4 a mile, doesn't matter if they put fuel in, its miles on your clock.....
		
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£4 per mile, wish I could get away with charging that.


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## Elsiecat (24 February 2013)

Glamourpuss, go and say that to her face


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## s4sugar (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			There you are, they couldn't get hold of you.

Ok, they should not have done it, but, come on, it's not the end of the world, just have a little word to say you're not that happy about the situation and then carry on as normal. No one died!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but they should not have done it. 
Deliberately taking a vehicle without the owners consent is inexcusable unless a matter of life or death and then it should be followed by effusive thanks.

I agree the police should be informed.


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

mutley75 said:



			£4 per mile, wish I could get away with charging that.
		
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With prices going up the way they are, put your prices up! I guess you are a haulier? I paid £3.50 a mile about 8 years ago, I would have thought it was more than that now...!


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Ladies, ladies, do calm down!


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

Methinks SF is purely here to 'stir the pot' as it were and create an emotive response...

Ignoring from now on works well.


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Errmm, OK!


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## Delicious_D (24 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			...or perhaps you think it's OK to take a vehicle without permission onto the highway? What the heck would you do if you crashed it, and worse....killed someone?
		
Click to expand...

was that aimed at me?


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Methinks SF is purely here to 'stir the pot' as it were and create an emotive response...

Ignoring from now on works well. 

Click to expand...

think your right or maybe they are one of the ladies  concerned.  Maybe also they think stealing or taking something  just because they could not get hold of the owner is ok.   

 Maybe its ok to take someones horse on a 25 mile ride without the owner knowing, doesn't matter if horse comes back lame or injured  I will just say I could not get hold of the owner. 

 SF your obviously one who does not care or think its a big issue for someone to 

take a lorry without owners ok
driving without insurance
driving a vehicle you have never driven
 driving a lorry with a horse in the back
 using someone else s fuel
using and putting other road users at risk
driving and possibly damaging the vehicle while its driven without  owners clearance.
 Slightly foxed 

 Maybe all the above is ok to you., you have obviously not got your own transport or I will ask Romany to come take yours out for a 6 hour drive without you knowing see how you like it.


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## rockysmum (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Come over here and say that

Click to expand...

Naw we dont need to do that, however if you PM your address I will find a way to get it to your local TWOC gangs.

I'm sure you wont mind if they borrow your vehicles to get home from the pub


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## Delicious_D (24 February 2013)

There you go OP, SF will happily lend you her lorry  sell yours, pocket the money and just 'borrow' her's when needed. Job done.


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

Delicious_D said:



			was that aimed at me?
		
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Nope! It was for SF, I should have quoted!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (24 February 2013)

So all the foxing aside, have we heard the outcome of this 'meeting' ???


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## Delicious_D (24 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Nope! It was for SF, I should have quoted! 

Click to expand...

Phew


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## ROMANY 1959 (24 February 2013)

Had meeting.... Bit of shouting, few tears, appears lady one thought lady two had asked me and visa versa, another member of YO family had handed over key and not realised, they thought I was there too. I listed all the ramifications that could have happened, they have offered to pay part of service it's going for this week. And I've had flowers and wine from them. All parties very sorry and contrite, it will never happen again. I have bought a key safe. For spare lorry key, and have screwed it onto wall in common room. I have to leave a key there cos I am not always there when my mate who shares lorry, needs it. So key safe seems ok. It has all been a terrible screw up. I was firm, and was quite surprised that writing down concerns really helped me not wimp out.. I know lots of people think I should rip heads off, call police ect, but I've kept calm and firm. Message was put across plain and clear. So I wish to draw line under it now 
Thank you for all your comments and advice and those who sent PM thanks a lot, .


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

not yet , we have heard nothing.   If it were my lorry there would be blood strune across the windscreen if i saw them walking in front of me next time i drove.   I work my ass off to support my lorry as do everyone else here who has a lorry or trailer.  

  So what right does a nobody have to drive it.  If they cannot get hold of you Romany that should have ended there and they should have hired one from a pro to do it .

 Its no different if you saw a liveries keys in the tack room you have NO RIGHT to drive or use the keys unless you have notified the insurance company.

 When i went away a few years ago and my mate stayed here to yard sit. We added her to our insurance so all legal.

 She had access to all the other keys  lorry= pontiac ferrari and my other car and the BMW.   She would never use the keys .  So what right would a stranger have eh??? NONE!


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## 1stclassalan (24 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			I would smack her with a snow shovel, drag her round the yard by the scruff of her neck and make her tell everyone we meet that she is a lying, scheaming cow who has taken advantage and cannot be trusted.

I would give her a bill for the diesel and a days lorry hire, I would also remove the key from the YO, oh and she would be paying for me to take lorry to a mechanic and body shop of my choice for a check over and rectification of anything at her expense.

Then I would hit her with a snow shovel !

Jeeze - is she really still alive ????
		
Click to expand...

Jeeze too! But I can't believe that I'm reading a post like that on touchy-feelt HHO! It's cetainly the way I feel but I usually say it in code - such as having a quiet word round the back of the muck heap because I can be tactful....... wanna borrow my digger for the hole?

There was me thinking that the "borrowing" would concern a favourite grooming brush!


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## Theocat (24 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Had meeting.... Bit of shouting, few tears, appears lady one thought lady two had asked me and visa versa, another member of YO family had handed over key and not realised, they thought I was there too. I listed all the ramifications that could have happened, they have offered to pay part of service it's going for this week. And I've had flowers and wine from them. All parties very sorry and contrite, it will never happen again. I have bought a key safe. For spare lorry key, and have screwed it onto wall in common room. I have to leave a key there cos I am not always there when my mate who shares lorry, needs it. So key safe seems ok. It has all been a terrible screw up. I was firm, and was quite surprised that writing down concerns really helped me not wimp out.. I know lots of people think I should rip heads off, call police ect, but I've kept calm and firm. Message was put across plain and clear. So I wish to draw line under it now 
Thank you for all your comments and advice and those who sent PM thanks a lot, .
		
Click to expand...

Just wanted to say well done - it sounds as though you handled it really well.  You still have to live with these people, so I think this was a sensible approach and I'm so glad you can draw a line now


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## 3Beasties (24 February 2013)

I still don't buy the whole 'I thought she'd asked you story' as surley they would have thanked you for lending it to them once you were back 

Anyway,  glad you've sorted it OP


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Had meeting.... Bit of shouting, few tears, appears lady one thought lady two had asked me and visa versa, another member of YO family had handed over key and not realised, they thought I was there too. I listed all the ramifications that could have happened, they have offered to pay part of service it's going for this week. And I've had flowers and wine from them. All parties very sorry and contrite, it will never happen again. I have bought a key safe. For spare lorry key, and have screwed it onto wall in common room. I have to leave a key there cos I am not always there when my mate who shares lorry, needs it. So key safe seems ok. It has all been a terrible screw up. I was firm, and was quite surprised that writing down concerns really helped me not wimp out.. I know lots of people think I should rip heads off, call police ect, but I've kept calm and firm. Message was put across plain and clear. So I wish to draw line under it now 
Thank you for all your comments and advice and those who sent PM thanks a lot, .
		
Click to expand...

Well done.


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## Delicious_D (24 February 2013)

Glad its been sorted, but i dont believe the stories, sorry.


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

glad it all sorted now Romany.  I think they have learnt a valuable lesson do not take without a written confirmation.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (24 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Had meeting.... Bit of shouting, few tears, appears lady one thought lady two had asked me and visa versa, another member of YO family had handed over key and not realised, they thought I was there too. I listed all the ramifications that could have happened, they have offered to pay part of service it's going for this week. And I've had flowers and wine from them. All parties very sorry and contrite, it will never happen again. I have bought a key safe. For spare lorry key, and have screwed it onto wall in common room. I have to leave a key there cos I am not always there when my mate who shares lorry, needs it. So key safe seems ok. It has all been a terrible screw up. I was firm, and was quite surprised that writing down concerns really helped me not wimp out.. I know lots of people think I should rip heads off, call police ect, but I've kept calm and firm. Message was put across plain and clear. So I wish to draw line under it now 
Thank you for all your comments and advice and those who sent PM thanks a lot, .
		
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm Id have them PAYING the service but there you go. Was YO in attendance?? Shame YOUR having to fork out fr a service AND a keysafe but up to you personally. I wouldnt be paying a penny for the service OR any parts that were required but there you go.

If your happy with the result then alls well.


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## Elsiecat (24 February 2013)

They're lying. But hopefully they feel guilty!


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## Ladyinred (24 February 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			They're lying. But hopefully they feel guilty!
		
Click to expand...

This. But at least its all over now and amicably.


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## Luci07 (24 February 2013)

Ladyinred said:



			This. But at least its all over now and amicably.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. But they will think twice before behaving like that again. 5 days to say thank you? Really?!


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## Tiffany (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Calling the police is a complete over reaction, a waste of t heir time and I doubt they'll be in the least bit interested. 

What an hysterical bunch there are on this forum!
		
Click to expand...

They broke the law. If they came round to your house and borrowed your car without your knowledge would you be happy?


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

This has all worked out ok for the OP. you 're all hung ho, call the police etc, but OP is happy with her yard and wants to stay there and remain friends with her fellow liveries, so all is well. 

But what do I know, I'm an idiot!


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Delicious_D said:



			Glad its been sorted, but i dont believe the stories, sorry.
		
Click to expand...

i don't either FWIW



 As any adult know you have to check insurance before you drive any vehicle.

 Thus the owner of the vehicle MUST phone up and pass security checks to add a NAMED driver to the allowed to drive the vehicle and pay usually £ 25 per time for a car so box more. And you have to tell the insurance company what dates the temporary driver will drive vehicle.  The insurance company also must have  been told that the temp driver is fully insured and have a driving license and if they have any points on it as well.

   Its the same for a car and I have added a NAMED driver to my car on numerous occasions so I know the procedure.

 in this instance the drivers are pretty stupid not to know this otherwise anyone would take their vehicle without permission as do joy riders. 


 They take the keys - they drive the vehicle.  NO difference in this case


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

The lorry is insured for any driver over 25.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			This has all worked out ok for the OP. you 're all hung ho, call the police etc, but OP is happy with her yard and wants to stay there and remain friends with her fellow liveries, so all is well. 

But what do I know, I'm an idiot!
		
Click to expand...

Well you are certainly portraying yourself that way  Let it go people can only tell you what THEY would do. Your the one poking the situation so more fool you


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## Elsiecat (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			The lorry is insured for any driver over 25.
		
Click to expand...

Without the owners permission the insurance isn't valid.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			The lorry is insured for any driver over 25.
		
Click to expand...

I doubt thats fully comp as she wont have business insurance it will be personal.


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## Elsiecat (24 February 2013)

I'm sorry, but Slightly Foxed, are you young? Or just very little experience of the real world?
If someone came to your house and STOLE your car (took it without your consent) you'd be spitting feathers!!!!


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## mandwhy (24 February 2013)

Well done Romany, I am glad you were able to confront them, firm but fair is good (and it makes it clear that you are the reasonable one, they are the wrongdoers) You've them know it was unacceptable and that it can't happen again, I hope it doesn't or we know you will really unleash the dragon on them ;-)


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## Tiffany (24 February 2013)

Well done Romany. Sounds like you handled it well and they realise they got away lightly and if they have any sense at all they won't be 'taking a vehicle without consent' again.


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## Delicious_D (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			But what do I know, I'm an idiot!
		
Click to expand...

You said it.


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

Glad you got it sorted, and pleased you are happy with the outcome.  Good idea to write it all down, and although I think they should pay the whole service, if you are satisfied, then all's well that ends well.


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			I'm sorry, but Slightly Foxed, are you young? Or just very little experience of the real world?
If someone came to your house and STOLE your car (took it without your consent) you'd be spitting feathers!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Ah, my dear if you only knew! In the great scheme of things, this is a tiny matter and I'm glad it's resolved to the OP's satisfaction.

I apologise, I should not have got involved in this little spat, a bit of mischief on my part I suppose. Sorry, but worse things do happen, a lot of which I see in my line of work.


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## HBM1 (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			The lorry is insured for any driver over 25.
		
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surely that only works if the driver themselves has insurance? Who knows if they do or not.  I was without a car for much of last year, just because I may have wanted to borrow a car which had insurance cover for over 25s I personally didn't have insurance, so could not have driven it.

Regardless..I don't believe them either - surely if they knew they had permission to borrow it they would have refilled with fuel and thanked you for its use when you got back.  What if this is not the first time they have had a jolly in your lorry?  Just because this time you found out, who knows who has been driving it whilst you  haven't been around.  What if they decided to have a few nights at your house whilst you were on holiday, or use of your car - it wouldn't even occur to me to take one of the lorries at my yard, if I needed transport and no one was there, I would hire something.


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Delicious_D said:



			You said it.
		
Click to expand...

What bandwagon are you jumping on?


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			The lorry is insured for any driver over 25.
		
Click to expand...

I doubt that   when u insure your lorry. How many people here allow anyone to drive???? COME ON HANDS UP???

 MINE IS ME ONLY PERIOD UNLESS MECHANIC DRIVES IT TO TESTING STATION






 No you don't as insurance is higher if you allow anyone to drive, which is why people say named drivers only , how do the insurance its not a 17 year old just passed their test??.


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

No need to shout, my lorry is insured for any driver over 25.

What's up folks, have you all been in the pub all afternoon or is it pmt? Or are you all Daily Mail readers?? (Sorry, that last comment was uncalled for!)


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## foxy1 (24 February 2013)

I have my lorry insured for any driver over 25, fully comp. Main reason for this is in case I injure myself when out competeing, I can get another driver to take the lorry and horses home


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## Delicious_D (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			What bandwagon are you jumping on?
		
Click to expand...

The one i borrowed from you. I hope you dont mind? I am 25 after all...


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## dafthoss (24 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			We could do with the opinion of an actual police officer on this. Do we have any on the forum??
		
Click to expand...

I'm not a police officer but a lad in the village got 6 points (making his new liscence useless) and a hefty fine (considering he is long term unemployed) for taking his parents car just this week, so the police do take this seriously. 


OP they took 5 days to apologise to you and give you chocolate and wine?! 5 days!! They were hoping you wouldnt find out and I'm sorry I dont believe thier story, picking up a horse is not a last min thing, they will have known it was happening for ages.


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## Elsiecat (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			No need to shout, my lorry is insured for any driver over 25.

What's up folks, have you all been in the pub all afternoon or is it pmt? Or are you all Daily Mail readers?? (Sorry, that last comment was uncalled for!)
		
Click to expand...

Even if they don't have a 7.5 tonne license?


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Why in gods name would any one have any driver over 25 can drive your lorry??.

 It costs he owner more money for one thing.

 If you have it owner only then in the rare instance you let a friend drive it you put them down as a name driver for dates -  to --.

 makes no scene to me paying extra premium  for a service.


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Don't mind at all. What's the 25 thing, have you seen the date I joined HHO? You were, what, 13? 

Anyway, enough of this nonsense, I'm off. Sorry if I've genuinely upset anyone, but I think not.


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## Elsiecat (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			have you seen the date I joined HHO? You were, what, 13?
		
Click to expand...

Woahhh, stand back.. She joined before us


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## Roasted Chestnuts (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Don't mind at all. What's the 25 thing, have you seen the date I joined HHO? You were, what, 13? 

Anyway, enough of this nonsense, I'm off. Sorry if I've genuinely upset anyone, but I think not.
		
Click to expand...

I dont think you have upset anyone, just shown yourself to be a bit of a plonk really, hopefully its just a passing phase


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			No need to shout, my lorry is insured for any driver over 25.

What's up folks, have you all been in the pub all afternoon or is it pmt? Or are you all Daily Mail readers?? (Sorry, that last comment was uncalled for!)
		
Click to expand...

sorry to disappoint you i do not go to pub been working ass off in the yard.

 And no for me PMT is not something i suffer from since I had cancer and a hysterectomy.

 Do not have time to read the papers.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (24 February 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Woahhh, stand back.. She joined before us 

Click to expand...

*snorts tea* lol


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Don't mind at all. What's the 25 thing, have you seen the date I joined HHO? You were, what, 13? 
t.
		
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who is this directed too??  whats the year we joined got to do with our actual age???


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			But what do I know, I'm an idiot!
		
Click to expand...

Wow the first post you;ve made that I agree with.... if you are embroiled in this sad sordy affair you have just made it a 100 times worse as you obviously hold anyone other than yourself with such contempt.

I pity anyone unfortuante to be on the same yard as you


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Delicious_D said:



			The one i borrowed from you. I hope you dont mind? I am 25 after all...
		
Click to expand...

Enemy previous post, sorry, should have quoted. Do you think I'm on half term then? Have a look at my HHO join date!


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Wow the first post you;ve made that I agree with.... if you are embroiled in this sad sordy affair you have just made it a 100 times worse as you obviously hold anyone other than yourself with such contempt.

I pity anyone unfortuante to be on the same yard as you
		
Click to expand...

What?? Explain to me why you have come to that conclusion please.


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## Elsiecat (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Do you think I'm on half term then? Have a look at my HHO join date!
		
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Are you allowed to use your HHO join date as ID? Do they accept it at the airports?


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Are you allowed to use your HHO join date as ID? Do they accept it at the airports?
		
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lmao


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## YorksG (24 February 2013)

Well it just goes to show that idiots can remain on HHO for a long time, over 12 years in this case. Even those who condone criminal acts are accepted here


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Are you allowed to use your HHO join date as ID? Do they accept it at the airports?
		
Click to expand...

And your point is?

OK, I'll fess up, I'm 11years old and read the Guardian not the Daily Fail!

Off to do something useful now we're off topic, and I have horses to do.


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			What?? Explain to me why you have come to that conclusion please.
		
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Well you obviously think that it is acceptable to take any property that you want with out the owners permission, and are quiet indignant that anyone should object.

By doing this you clearly show that the only person you care about is you, and you are more than happy to use and abuse anyone else and their paid for property without even a glimmer of thought.


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

YorksG said:



			Well it just goes to show that idiots can remain on HHO for a long time, over 12 years in this case. Even those who condone criminal acts are accepted here 

Click to expand...

Ouch! What's up with you all? Can't stand liberals?


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			And your point is?

OK, I'll fess up, I'm 11years old and read the Guardian not the Daily Fail!

Off to do something useful now we're off topic, and I have horses to do.
		
Click to expand...

Lock up your cars, horse boxes, tack, horses, husbands, boyfriends etc.... someone whom thinks they can take what they want when they want is coming to a place near you.


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well you obviously think that it is acceptable to take any property that you want with out the owners permission, and are quiet indignant that anyone should object.

By doing this you clearly show that the only person you care about is you, and you are more than happy to use and abuse anyone else and their paid for property without even a glimmer of thought.
		
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That's not what I said at all.


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## *hic* (24 February 2013)

Leviathan said:



			Why in gods name would any one have any driver over 25 can drive your lorry??.

 It costs he owner more money for one thing.

 If you have it owner only then in the rare instance you let a friend drive it you put them down as a name driver for dates -  to --.

 makes no scene to me paying extra premium  for a service.
		
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Because when you're unconscious in an ambulance on a Sunday afternoon and you've got two horses left at the event it's not that easy to phone the insurance company .

Because it costs £17 more for any driver over £25 and yes that IS fully comp on a 7.5 tonne lorry and you don't have to make changes - which IIRC you have quoted as £25 per time - not so clever if you lend it out once, stupid if you lend it out several times!

And yes of course driver has to have the appropriate license (OR co-driver with appropriate qualification).


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## *hic* (24 February 2013)

Gingerwitch - given the acts of violence you have recommended in several places on this thread I hardly think you are in any position to comment on anyone else's morals:


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## YorksG (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Ouch! What's up with you all? Can't stand liberals?
		
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Don't mind liberals, just find anarchists irritating, particularly when they believe that given that property is theft, it is ok for them the theive property.


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## 3Beasties (24 February 2013)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			Because when you're unconscious in an ambulance on a Sunday afternoon and you've got two horses left at the event it's not that easy to phone the insurance company .

Because it costs £17 more for any driver over £25 and yes that IS fully comp on a 7.5 tonne lorry and you don't have to make changes - which IIRC you have quoted as £25 per time - not so clever if you lend it out once, stupid if you lend it out several times!

And yes of course driver has to have the appropriate license (OR co-driver with appropriate qualification).
		
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This!!


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2013)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			Gingerwitch - given the acts of violence you have recommended in several places on this thread I hardly think you are in any position to comment on anyone else's morals:
		
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Dont mess with my stuff then v!

and why on earth not.... eye for an eye and all that... and dont you have a right to protect your property now a days


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## *hic* (24 February 2013)

Not as much of a right as you would like to think (especially if you think the perp is hiding in your bog!)


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2013)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			Not as much of a right as you would like to think (especially if you think the perp is hiding in your bog!)
		
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Arh well.... he has brought a whole new meaning to taking your girlfriend out on valantines day - hasn't he


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## Charley657 (24 February 2013)

What a bunch of drama queens on this forum! 

Well done Romany!  Especially since you said you hated conflict of any kind.  Hopefully they won't feel they can 'borrow' your things in future without permission.


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			Because when you're unconscious in an ambulance on a Sunday afternoon and you've got two horses left at the event it's not that easy to phone the insurance company .

Because it costs £17 more for any driver over £25 and yes that IS fully comp on a 7.5 tonne lorry and you don't have to make changes - which IIRC you have quoted as £25 per time - not so clever if you lend it out once, stupid if you lend it out several times!

And yes of course driver has to have the appropriate license (OR co-driver with appropriate qualification).
		
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 Well since i have  had a horse box since the 1980/s this has never happened and if it did.  My hubby would drive it back with his insurance.  So no need for anyone else to drive it.

 it cost £25  for my friend to be insured for 2 weeks to drive my rover  car while on holiday.

 Then the same applies to my pontiac if i had heart attack at one of my car shows or another accident   NO ONE will drive my pontiac any way anyhow.  If i was at a show  The AA would transport it back for me.

With the lorry I would arrange my liveries to drive my horses home in their lorry and get my breakdown company to bring lorry home.


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

dafthoss said:



			I'm not a police officer but a lad in the village got 6 points (making his new liscence useless) and a hefty fine (considering he is long term unemployed) for taking his parents car just this week, so the police do take this seriously. 


OP they took 5 days to apologise to you and give you chocolate and wine?! 5 days!! They were hoping you wouldnt find out and I'm sorry I dont believe thier story, picking up a horse is not a last min thing, they will have known it was happening for ages.
		
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Thans for that info, I would have thought it would have been taken very seriously, otherwise, would anybody bother to insure at all??

Really, these ladies are very lucky it was Romany's box, and not someone else who would have reported them. A stiff lesson learned indeed...!


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Charley657 said:



			What a bunch of drama queens on this forum! 

Well done Romany!  Especially since you said you hated conflict of any kind.  Hopefully they won't feel they can 'borrow' your things in future without permission. 

Click to expand...

Then the police must be chasing a lot of drama queens cars when they get  reports their cars stolen for joy rides!!!!!


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## DragonSlayer (24 February 2013)

Charley657 said:



			What a bunch of drama queens on this forum! 

Well done Romany!  Especially since you said you hated conflict of any kind.  Hopefully they won't feel they can 'borrow' your things in future without permission. 

Click to expand...

Drama queens? Can you explain what you mean by that?


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Thans for that info, I would have thought it would have been taken very seriously, otherwise, would anybody bother to insure at all??

Really, these ladies are very lucky it was Romany's box, and not someone else who would have reported them. A stiff lesson learned indeed...!
		
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Quite right I would have reported them and give them a hire and fuel bill. if they refused - Small claims court next with a no win no fee for me .  All bills covered by them for taking and using without my consent.

 I would not want to be on a yard where people can take your stuff  (box or trailer) without asking.


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## FfionWinnie (24 February 2013)

Delicious_D said:



			Glad its been sorted, but i dont believe the stories, sorry.
		
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Yes I agree. Well done for standing your ground op.


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## *hic* (24 February 2013)

Well since i have had a horse box since the 1980/s this has never happened and if it did. My hubby would drive it back with his insurance. So no need for anyone else to drive it.

it cost £25 for my friend to be insured for 2 weeks to drive my rover car while on holiday.

Then the same applies to my pontiac if i had heart attack at one of my car shows or another accident NO ONE will drive my pontiac any way anyhow. If i was at a show The AA would transport it back for me.

With the lorry I would arrange my liveries to drive my horses home in their lorry and get my breakdown company to bring lorry home.
_________________
		
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All very well provided you always go to the same shows as your liveries (and they always have space for your horses) and / or take your husband along with you - and that you are not so seriously ill that they want your husband to get the the hospital asap. I have had to arrange transport for more than one person to hospital with their injured spouse and then arrange to get the family, horses and lorry recovered to their house.

Yes, I assume most people have some form of breakdown/recovery cover on their cars but that's not really what this was about. "Pontiac" is not some magic word that impresses me.


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## 1stclassalan (24 February 2013)

Break, break girls - please.... neutral corner all of you!

I reckon you've all forgotten that normal English Law is suspended at most farm gates - it certainly has been on many I've worked on - I've known of horses being removed in the middle of the night - as it turned out this was not to avoid livery money but the possibility of being harangued by the YO, unfortunately these owners took the wrong horse and got rubbled when bringing it back!
On the same ( very posh ) yard I saw a gentleman that you wouldn't expect to see rear up - grab the YO by the throat and hoist him up a wall until he was decidedly puce in the face, this it appears was the final act in a lonf dispute over true ownership of a very expensive horse, YO was supposed to be keeping it to show and sell to high grade clients but was really hanging on to it as a Grand Prix schoolmaster. Same YO was implicated in all sorts of double dealing and dodgey stuff.
On the smaller scale, I found a local farmer had used all the materials left over from some construction I did for him on the grounds of "well it was delivered here weren'it?" He also let out my kit to folk down the lane who were paying him for it - this too on the grounds that I had left it on his place. 
And on our first livery yard I found the farmer helping himself to our feed to give to his horses and was told: "if you don't like it you can p*** off." 

How's it go? What thine's mine and what's mine's me own!


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## piebaldsparkle (24 February 2013)

Well done OP.  I agree with the others who don't believe a word or their story, and they are very lucky they did not 'borrow' my box as would have been reported end of.  Collecting a horse is not an emergency.


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## piebaldsparkle (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			What an hysterical bunch there are on this forum!
		
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Charley657 said:



			What a bunch of drama queens on this forum!
		
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Were you the two selfish idiots that borrowed the OP's box without permission?

Can only assume you two have nothing worth borrowing and are happy to borrow anything you like without permission.

Lets hope if you do have anything, if someone fancys borrowing you are just as happy!


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## 1stclassalan (24 February 2013)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			"Pontiac" is not some magic word that impresses me.
		
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Cor blimey! It still impresses me! He was quite a guy:-  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Pontiac 

Pontiac motor vehicles used to be made on the old chief's lands - though I'm not sure if that's still the case.


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## glamourpuss (24 February 2013)

I think this thread safely shows the users who are the 'borrowers' on their yards  my guess all those saying 'no harm done', 'what a load of drama queens' obviously don't see anything wrong with helping themselves to other people's property 

I'm also snorting at Delicious_D's very clever joke about borrowing Slightly Foxed's high horse (I got it DD even if others didn't )

Remember Slightly Foxed don't tax that little mind of yours too much....breathe in...then out..


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			All very well provided you always go to the same shows as your liveries (and they always have space for your horses) and / or take your husband along with you - and that you are not so seriously ill that they want your husband to get the the hospital asap. I have had to arrange transport for more than one person to hospital with their injured spouse and then arrange to get the family, horses and lorry recovered to their house.

Yes, I assume most people have some form of breakdown/recovery cover on their cars but that's not really what this was about. "Pontiac" is not some magic word that impresses me.
		
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Don't give a rats, wasn't trying to impress anyone or if I had I would have mentioned the Ferrari   my pontiac is a classic, and I have the  forum where it does impress the right sort of people not a horse forum.  it was an example its not different than a classic car you do not insure it for anyone to drive it because you do not want any one too-


 My liveries rarely go to any events i go to.  If needs be they would bring their vehicle to my event and bring horses home. Or I have plenty of people to help.


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## piebaldsparkle (24 February 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			I think this thread safely shows the users who are the 'borrowers' on their yards 

Click to expand...

Quite


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			I think this thread safely shows the users who are the 'borrowers' on their yards  my guess all those saying 'no harm done', 'what a load of drama queens' obviously don't see anything wrong with helping themselves to other people's property 

I'm also snorting at Delicious_D's very clever joke about borrowing Slightly Foxed's high horse (I got it DD even if others didn't )

Remember Slightly Foxed don't tax that little mind of yours too much....breathe in...then 

Have you read my original post??
		
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## piebaldsparkle (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			What bandwagon are you jumping on?
		
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Delicious_D said:



			The one i borrowed from you. I hope you dont mind? I am 25 after all...
		
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Classic PMSL


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			"Pontiac" is not some magic word that impresses me.
		
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 Of cause it wont my dear because you know nothing about Pontiac apart from its a car to get you to a or b  I bet you drive a put put nothing bigger than a 1 ltr .

 Some people are in impressed with a big American car with a TV theme to it.  This is not the time or the place to impress people hence why I go to the places where it does and the forums with like minded owners.

 Sorry Op digressing  . the overall opinion is you do not take without asking and you do not drive without insurance period!


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Classic PMSL

Click to expand...

Sorry, don't get it. Must be my age.


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## piebaldsparkle (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Sorry, don't get it. Must be my age.
		
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Maybe.....

Although understanding humor does require a degree of intelligence, so that might be the problem.


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## Alaadin (24 February 2013)

Of cause it wont my dear because you know nothing about Pontiac apart from its a car to get you to a or b I bet you drive a put put nothing bigger than a 1 ltr
		
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I have nothing useful to say except for LOL! 

Why do you think that anybody gives a frig about what car you drive? You've just made yourself sound incredibly up yourself


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Maybe.....

Although understanding humor does require a degree of intelligence, so that might be the problem.

Click to expand...

Which humour was that exactly? 

Jeeze, there goes my phd. Who are you anyway? Did you look t the original post? 

Good night all.


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Alaadin said:



			I have nothing useful to say except for LOL! 

Why do you think that anybody gives a frig about what car you drive? You've just made yourself sound incredibly up yourself 

Click to expand...

you total edjut!!!!  i dont care what you think its an example I used. whether you drive a classic car or an old banger if you don't want anyone else to drive you do not insure anyone too.  

 What part of *I wasn't trying to impress anyone* is hard for you to understand???

 If you drive a £65.000...or a £500  truck using it without owners consent is not on.
  is that better for you or will you accuse me of being up myself for having a horsebox now??

 Smack wrists for saying I have a horsebox!!!!


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## *hic* (24 February 2013)

Alaadin said:



			I have nothing useful to say except for LOL! 

Why do you think that anybody gives a frig about what car you drive? You've just made yourself sound incredibly up yourself 

Click to expand...

I though PMSL fit the bill actually, especially since the poster had to attempt to make her point twice


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## piebaldsparkle (24 February 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Which humour was that exactly?
		
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See jokes just ain't funny when you have to explain them...............  but here goes

You (SF) responded to DD




			Originally Posted by Slightly Foxed
What bandwagon are you jumping on?
		
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DD replied to you




			Originally Posted by Delicious_D 
The one i borrowed from you. I hope you dont mind? I am 25 after all...
		
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Now that is funny!

Do you Get it now?


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## *hic* (24 February 2013)

Leviathan said:



			y

 What part of *I wasn't trying to impress anyone* is hard for you to understand???
		
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Uh, I think that would be the bit where you started on about the Ferarri . . .


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## Wildforestpony18 (24 February 2013)

*eats popcorn* Oh dear  Seem to have hijacked the thread


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## Slightly Foxed (24 February 2013)

Is it the 25 that's funny?


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## Alaadin (24 February 2013)

Leviathan said:



			you total edjut!!!!  i dont care what you think its an example I used. whether you drive a classic car or an old banger if you don't want anyone else to drive you do not insure anyone too.  

 What part of *I wasn't trying to impress anyone* is hard for you to understand???

 If you drive a £65.000...or a £500  truck using it without owners consent is not on.
  is that better for you or will you accuse me of being up myself for having a horsebox now??

 Smack wrists for saying I have a horsebox!!!!
		
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The below is what made you sound like a stuck up cow...



			I bet you drive a put put nothing bigger than a 1 ltr
		
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That's not an example, it's an up yourself comment


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			Uh, I think that would be the bit where you started on about the Ferarri . . .



Click to expand...

duhhhhhhhhhh and what makes you think i have one?? are you that gullible???

 Believe anything you read???   Dear this is not the forum to impress anyone with cars - trucks- bikes.


The fact is we *the*majority think this should have been reported.  Any example we use to put this point across is hardly a cause for thinking we are trying to impress, merely a member giving other examples of insuring a vehicle YES vehicle of what every type for owner drive only.


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## Venevidivici (24 February 2013)

On an ancillary note,not positive but don't think you can get 'no win,no fee' arrangements for small claims. Also,Aaaladin,I agree.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (24 February 2013)

christine48 said:



			You need to speak to them, they weren't insured to drive it. Thankfully nothing happened. They need to reimburse you for diesel & wear & tear ( going rate is about £1.50 per mile). If they don't agree to this, then I would threaten them with reporting them to the police. Taking a vehicle without the owner's permission and driving without valid insurance. 
Next time don't leave the keys around.
		
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Ditto this!!! 

Yes appreciate you don't want to cause a stink on the yard, but what these people did wasn't just foolish/irresponsible, it was actually illegal. They were firstly driving without insurance - so if something HAD happened, you'd have had diddly squat in come-back; and secondly were driving without the owners' consent, which is actually an offence under the law.

Don't think you should sit down under this one!  

Sorry haven't read all the other replies; BUT as is normal on here it looks like this is getting snipey/personal. Ah well, wots new? 
But then again, YO shouldn't have given them the keys on just their say-so TBH; so IF there is a reason for YO to have the key of your lorry - which OK is sensible as it might need to be moved for whatever reason - then now would be the time to give YO a signed and dated letter saying that on no account whatsoever, and in no circumstances, is your lorry to be used by anyone other than yourself. 

I'd be incandescent/vapourised about this; its just not on.


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## Delicious_D (24 February 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			I think this thread safely shows the users who are the 'borrowers' on their yards  my guess all those saying 'no harm done', 'what a load of drama queens' obviously don't see anything wrong with helping themselves to other people's property 

I'm also snorting at Delicious_D's very clever joke about borrowing Slightly Foxed's high horse (I got it DD even if others didn't )

Remember Slightly Foxed don't tax that little mind of yours too much....breathe in...then out..
		
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 *sniggers*


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Alaadin said:



			The below is what made you sound like a stuck up cow...


That's not an example, it's an up yourself comment 

Click to expand...

 That is your opinion !!!!   I wont say what you sound like!!!


 I understand there are many people who  a classic car or expensive car does nothing for them.


 Now this is not the place to continue talking cars. I don't need to get approval about my car on this forum as already said.



I am not continuing this silly conversation.  Back to the matter in hand .  OP's horsebox taken without her permision


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Venevidivici said:



			On an ancillary note,not positive but don't think you can get 'no win,no fee' arrangements for small claims. Also,Aaaladin,I agree.
		
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Yes your right I just checked my last lot of paperwork from Small Claims.

 OP  I am glad you have it sorted the way your happy with your in the situation  with your yard.

 It might not be the way some of us would have done it but that is us.  You have sorted it how your happy with, that is what matters.

 Good idea the key safe.  this should not happen again at least.


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## Alaadin (24 February 2013)

Leviathan said:



			No its not  - its a comment that I made to your comment about pontiac's as not impressive, it was a way of saying - you obviously know nothing about them or are not into cars  in the way people who have classics are. Or you would not have made this comment.


 I understand there are many people who  a classic car or expensive car does nothing for them.


 Now this is not the place to continue talking cars. I don't need to get approval about my car on this forum as already said.



I am not continuing this silly conversation.  Back to the matter in hand .  OP's horsebox taken without her permision
		
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I never mentioned anything about your pontiac. I think you're confusing me with somebody else...but just for the record, it doesn't impress me at all 

And my dad is a classical car enthusiast, so yeh


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 February 2013)

Alaadin said:



			I never mentioned anything about your pontiac. I think you're confusing me with somebody else...but just for the record, it doesn't impress me at all 

And my dad is a classical car enthusiast, so yeh 

Click to expand...

yes you are right sorry.

Its fair enough lots of people don't care for sports/ classic/ tv cars.

 Chaqun a son goute as they say


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## LizzieJ (24 February 2013)

Both my parents vehicles are insured fully comp for anyone over 25 with the correct license and the owners permission. My old lorry was too. Once you try to put more than 3 named drivers on it often ends up cheaper anyway!  We live in the middle of nowhere, if there were to be a shooting/farming accident then it may well be necessary for anyone to drive any of them, it's really not odd   In this case, yes the insurance would have been invalid as the driver didn't have the owner's permission but it doesn't require anyone to have their own policy and it does provide fully comp insurance.

Well done OP, it sounds like you've got your point across without a big fall out


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## FionaM12 (24 February 2013)

Leviathan said:



			I bet you drive a put put nothing bigger than a 1 ltr .
		
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For health and work reasons I feel I need a car, but because I care about the environment I have one of the above and use it as little as possible.

Sorry, but I hate people sneering at small cars while swanning around in gas-guzzling big ones poisoning the planet for the sake of their own egos.

I apologize if I misunderstood and you don't fall into that category, but the above comments do give that impression.


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## Asha (24 February 2013)

Well this thread has really brightened my rather dull Sunday evening

Thank you all sooooo much

To summarise

OP has sorted the issue out, her way.

Poor slightly Foxed - dared to speak out against the rest with a different view, and is now branded a plonker

lethian - made the mistake of mentioning she had a half decent car - how very dare you

Quite a few people on here have anger issues, although not sure how many would actually do what they suggested. I mean , hitting people with shovels , really !!


Anyway, thank you, its been great !!


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## Cinnamontoast (24 February 2013)

From an actual police officer:

It's a whole bag of ***** to prosecute. It would take 6 months to get to court while the OP has this hanging over her at a yard she loves. She'd need a statement from whoever handed over the keys and the lines appear to be somewhat blurred here (genuine error on YO family member's part?). The police _*would*_ take this seriously, as someone already mentioned. It would be 6 points on the licence of both guilty parties plus a £200 fine and of course a criminal record. It would be a great deal of work/funding to get to court and the Case Director may dismiss it and it may never get to Court. Of course, it may and serve the silly women right (I said that, not the police officer!) As long as the OP has taken steps to rectify leaving the keys available, she has done what sits well with her. 

It's outrageous what they did, but it was up to the OP to decide what she wanted to do.



Leviathan said:



			yes you are right sorry.

Its fair enough lots of people don't care for sports/ classic/ tv cars.

 Chaqun a son goute as they say 

Click to expand...

Chacun à son goût. 

How did this thread turn into who has a muscle car and who has a little run around?! Relevance?


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## D66 (24 February 2013)

I think the OP has dealt with the situation rather well,  
The miscreants have apologised and offered redress. 
The OP has not had to move yards.  
The YO now knows to only use the lorry keys for agreed purposes.  

Strong words, but no shovel wielding.


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## Natch (24 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Had meeting.... Bit of shouting, few tears, appears lady one thought lady two had asked me and visa versa, another member of YO family had handed over key and not realised, they thought I was there too. I listed all the ramifications that could have happened, they have offered to pay part of service it's going for this week. And I've had flowers and wine from them. All parties very sorry and contrite, it will never happen again. I have bought a key safe. For spare lorry key, and have screwed it onto wall in common room. I have to leave a key there cos I am not always there when my mate who shares lorry, needs it. So key safe seems ok. It has all been a terrible screw up. I was firm, and was quite surprised that writing down concerns really helped me not wimp out.. I know lots of people think I should rip heads off, call police ect, but I've kept calm and firm. Message was put across plain and clear. So I wish to draw line under it now 
Thank you for all your comments and advice and those who sent PM thanks a lot, .
		
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I'm very pleased for you 




Leviathan said:



			Now this is not the place to continue talking cars. I don't need to get approval about my car on this forum as already said.
		
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It wasn't the place to _start_ talking about your cars


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## MileAMinute (24 February 2013)

I had to double take earlier on the mentions of TWOC....in the nursing world it means Trial With Out Catheter....I was wondering what incontinent ladies had to do with a horsebox! 

Glad you've got it somewhat sorted, OP, you're a more patient/tolerant lady than I am!


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## FionaM12 (24 February 2013)

digger66 said:



			I think the OP has dealt with the situation rather well,  
The miscreants have apologised and offered redress. 
The OP has not had to move yards.  
The YO now knows to only use the lorry keys for agreed purposes.  

Strong words, but no shovel wielding.

Click to expand...

 I agree.

Well done OP.


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## Delicious_D (24 February 2013)

MileAMinute said:



			I had to double take earlier on the mentions of TWOC....in the nursing world it means Trial With Out Catheter....I was wondering what incontinent ladies had to do with a horsebox! 

Glad you've got it somewhat sorted, OP, you're a more patient/tolerant lady than I am! 

Click to expand...

 no incontinence here....but i wouldnt buy this lot a shovel anytime soon.


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## PandorasJar (24 February 2013)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Had meeting.... Bit of shouting, few tears, appears lady one thought lady two had asked me and visa versa, another member of YO family had handed over key and not realised, they thought I was there too. I listed all the ramifications that could have happened, they have offered to pay part of service it's going for this week. And I've had flowers and wine from them. All parties very sorry and contrite, it will never happen again. I have bought a key safe. For spare lorry key, and have screwed it onto wall in common room. I have to leave a key there cos I am not always there when my mate who shares lorry, needs it. So key safe seems ok. It has all been a terrible screw up. I was firm, and was quite surprised that writing down concerns really helped me not wimp out.. I know lots of people think I should rip heads off, call police ect, but I've kept calm and firm. Message was put across plain and clear. So I wish to draw line under it now 
Thank you for all your comments and advice and those who sent PM thanks a lot, .
		
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Sorry to drag this back on topic... but Romany please get in writing who was driving it and when the keys were given and returned... if there is a speeding ticket/someone was dinked etc you need to have it in writing.

I think you've handled it well as wanting to stay on the yard, I wouldn't have been so tolerant! But please cover yourself for if something has happened. They've stolen a vehicle (however people want to gloss it), who's to say they haven't clipped someone on cctv or been flashed.


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## PandorasJar (24 February 2013)

Delicious_D said:



			The one i borrowed from you. I hope you dont mind? I am 25 after all...
		
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## fjordhorsefan (24 February 2013)

Glad you have some sort of resolution OP.  The thieves are sorry they got caught, not sorry they actually stole your lorry, but hey ho. I hope there are no further repercussions for you xx


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