# Underweight horse, best feed?



## Hillbillylucy (7 January 2016)

Hello, first thing to say this is not my horse. I'm purely look after her two horses as the owner doesn't have time for them/ cannot be bothered. 
Horse number 1 is a young (3 this summer) is in a terrible condition, very thin no fat or muscle along his vertebrae etc. Also has rain rot which I'm trying so hard to sort out but it won't go away (please if anyone has advice on this that would be appreciated too). I've used hibi scrub, iodine, aloe vera shampoos and medicated ones too also the rug is not leaking as he has a new one.  
The owner has said that she's worried that this horse is growing as much as he should be so did mention about supplementing some calcium. Currently he is on sugar beet only (allen and page fast soak one)


Horse number 2 is currently on the same diet only but is very fizzy and extremely flighty,  I was wondering if there is diet that might help this... I did look at allen and page calm and condition, has anyone used this before??


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## fatpiggy (7 January 2016)

Hay hay and more hay.  If he is growing fast then the calcium is a good idea but I wouldn't use any fancy feeds or you could risk him growing upwards even more rather than outwards, and then you might be facing joint problems and even possible wobblers. Personally I like to see youngsters looking a bit on the lean side, it is natural.  This muggy weather is probably aggravating the rain rot.  I recommend a good powdering with Keratex Mud Fever powder and treat the rug as well as Dermatophillus spreads very easily.

Horse number 2 I would say more hay too and perhaps something like high fibre nuts. Is it older and working?   In the past many horses did perfectly well on nothing more than simple hay and grass and hard food was only used for competing animals and hunters.


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## PolarSkye (7 January 2016)

Hillbillylucy said:



			Hello, first thing to say this is not my horse. I'm purely look after her two horses as the owner doesn't have time for them/ cannot be bothered. 
Horse number 1 is a young (3 this summer) is in a terrible condition, very thin no fat or muscle along his vertebrae etc. Also has rain rot which I'm trying so hard to sort out but it won't go away (please if anyone has advice on this that would be appreciated too). I've used hibi scrub, iodine, aloe vera shampoos and medicated ones too also the rug is not leaking as he has a new one.  
The owner has said that she's worried that this horse is growing as much as he should be so did mention about supplementing some calcium. Currently he is on sugar beet only (allen and page fast soak one)


Horse number 2 is currently on the same diet only but is very fizzy and extremely flighty,  I was wondering if there is diet that might help this... I did look at allen and page calm and condition, has anyone used this before??
		
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Too many things unknown really to give you any constructive advice.  Re the rainscald, stop washing, keep it dry - a rug that doesn't leak will help, but if it's not breathable, you'll possibly get condensation/moisture underneath which is less than helpful.

Some questions:

- What breed are they?
- Do they live out or do they come in at night?
- If they live out, how is the grazing - is there much grass?
- If they come in, how much forage do they get at night and what sort of forage is it (hay or haylage) - also how much?
- How old is Horse Number 2?
- How big are they both (in hands)?
- Are either of them in any work?
- Whereabouts in the country are they? (this is relevant because being here in the soft south is a tad different to being in the Outer Hebrides, for example)

Youngsters need access to lots and lots of good quality forage - grass, hay, haylage . . . without having your forage analyzed it's next to impossible to know whether or not you need to supplement additional calcium and even at rising three I'd be steering away from relying too much on hard feed.

I'm hoping someone else can give you more constructive advice . . . 

P


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## Pinkvboots (7 January 2016)

I agree with above if the grass is poor just feed as much hay as they will eat no need for fancy feed much of the time, it might be worth giving them a general vitamin and mineral supplement equibites are a good way to feed as they are small treats you feed from the hand and are not too expensive.


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## Hillbillylucy (7 January 2016)

Thanks for replying sorry for the missing information.
They live out 24/7 with rugs on as their field doesn't have any stables bit they do have access to shelter. They are based on the moors (southwest devon) and their forage isn't really great, due to all the rain I would say about half of their field is mud and the other half is very short grass. Currently they have a massive bale of hay to munch on as they please. Breed wise I'm unsure what horse number 2 (15hh) also unsure on the age of him but the youngster is a cob around 13.3hh. 
I ride the older horse and spirit the younger one tends to plod along behind us (spirit has cow hocks so am cautious about how much he does so we tend to go at his level). Currently work wise for the 2nd horse is just light work, hacking at least twice a week. 


I will try and upload some photos of their condition


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## Pinkvboots (7 January 2016)

Do they have a constant supply of hay or is it just put out on the odd occasion? and are they being wormed this will have an impact on weight if they have a worm burden. and if the 3 year old is so underweight I would not be riding him at all until he is looking better as your just burning of all his weight.


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## Hillbillylucy (7 January 2016)

http://i.imgur.com/8O0RSET.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8eA69Ah.jpg 
http://i.imgur.com/zxJBy0r.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/24368w6.jpg 
http://i.imgur.com/wm4bNs3.jpg 
Http://i.imgur.com/PzJlexD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bJUE927.jpg

Thanks for your help I'll take a look at getting some of those. Also forgot to mention his rug is breathable


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## Hillbillylucy (7 January 2016)

http://i.imgur.com/eYXYb9K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7eassqf.jpg

Horse number 2 is the darker of the two


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## Hillbillylucy (7 January 2016)

I don't ride the 3 year old, he isn't broken in yet. Usually he comes out with us because the two horses cannot be separated so my partner tends to walk behind us with him, 9 times out of 10 we go onto the moors and I will work and ride whissy and spirit (younger horse) will munch on the grass. 
No they have a constant supply of hay and are wormed regularly.


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## twiggy2 (7 January 2016)

if that youngster has access to a constant supply of good hay and still looks like that then it needs a vet as something is wrong. with regards to rainscald the pony is in very poor condition and it is unlikely to clear up until it general health improves, I would say even with improved nutrition and bloods being run and coming back normal the best chance of clearing it up are to keep him out of the weather on a good solid flooring and taking the rug off.


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## Pinkvboots (7 January 2016)

The youngster looks really thin and there is not much grass I would do no more riding with him and give him as much hay as he will eat, then maybe try some unmolassed chaff with unmolassed sugar beet and some micronised linseed, you need to start off with very small feeds then increase gradually over a few weeks, it's better to feed 3 small feeds in 24 hours rather than one big one, the linseed can be increased to a few mug fulls after a few weeks I would also get them worm counted to rule out worms and speak to a vet about how to go about worming them as they are underweight and no point spending money on feed if they are full of worms.

Are you not getting any financial help from the owner of these horses?


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## Pinkvboots (7 January 2016)

Hillbillylucy said:



			I don't ride the 3 year old, he isn't broken in yet. Usually he comes out with us because the two horses cannot be separated so my partner tends to walk behind us with him, 9 times out of 10 we go onto the moors and I will work and ride whissy and spirit (younger horse) will munch on the grass. 
No they have a constant supply of hay and are wormed regularly.
		
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sorry just read this if they are wormed and have constant hay I would agree with twiggy and think that the youngster may have another problem as that is very thin if his being fed properly, I would get a vet down to see him suppose it wouldn't hurt to do a worm count as well its cheap enough for peace of mind.


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## be positive (7 January 2016)

The 3 year old is extremely poor, I think he looks wormy even though he is wormed regularly it may not be done correctly and that would be the first thing to check, if he has a constant supply of hay he should not look so poor unless there is an underlying reason, on a condition score he will be a 1 at best, the older one looks ok but still very ribby and lacking topline again suggesting a worm burden pulling him down. 
The young one will be lacking in nutrients so will be unable to fight off the rain scald, any amount of products put on will do little until his condition improves, I would want him on a decent balanced feed sugar beet will not provide a balanced diet for something so poor, calcium will do nothing to help as it is only only of the many vits/ mins that a growing horse requires, you will be fighting a bit of a battle if the owner will not accept responsibility, financial or otherwise, and if the weather gets worse, which it is supposed to, I think he will get worse before the winter is over and being so weak may succumb to any ailment or infection he picks up, he will not have any spare strength to fight it off.


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## Hillbillylucy (7 January 2016)

Thanks for everyone's help,
I work at a vets (but only small animal) so am not worried about costs of bloods or treatment etc as will get it all heavily discounted by some of our feeder practices I just want to get this little one better. 
I've been at the yard for 2 weeks or so now and the owner told me they were both wormed and since I've been there have had constant supply of hay. 
Should I worm them again just in case she was lying?


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## PolarSkye (7 January 2016)

Hillbillylucy said:



			Thanks for everyone's help,
I work at a vets (but only small animal) so am not worried about costs of bloods or treatment etc as will get it all heavily discounted by some of our feeder practices I just want to get this little one better. 
I've been at the yard for 2 weeks or so now and the owner told me they were both wormed and since I've been there have had constant supply of hay. 
Should I worm them again just in case she was lying?
		
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What are they being wormed for/with?  Do you have a record of which wormers they have received when?  Excessive worming is as bad as not worming at all as it can build resistance.  Given the condition of these two, and as you have said they get lots of forage, I'd be a) not riding/working; and b) getting a vet out.  

There's lean and then there's thin - these two are thin.

P


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## Hillbillylucy (7 January 2016)

I don't have any record of any treatment they've had, I will try and get into contact with the owner and see what it was.


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## TheMule (7 January 2016)

The youngster needs a vet asap. If they have had ad-lib hay then something else is wrong. The older horse looks poorly muscled and perhaps a bit wormy but not underweight.


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## twiggy2 (7 January 2016)

don't worm until a vet has seen the youngster, if you work at a vets surely you must recognise a very poor conditioned animal and recognise that a vet is needed sooner rather than later, animals get taken away from owners for being that poor.
Have you shown the photos to any vets?

I agree the other horse looks under muscled and possibly wormy but not skinny just not in great condition all round.


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## dibbin (7 January 2016)

I'd definitely be getting a vet out, the youngster is in very poor condition - especially if they've been getting plenty of hay.

Let us know how you get on, fingers crossed it's nothing serious. Is the owner just not interested?


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## chillipup (7 January 2016)

The youngster needs to be seen by a vet urgently. It will need access to a warm, dry, draught proof stable. Plenty of good hay ad lib and water. You'll need to make arrangements for this asap. Contact the owner. If they fail to do anything immediately call RSPCA and WHW. Please don't wait any longer.


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## Hillbillylucy (7 January 2016)

twiggy2 said:



			don't worm until a vet has seen the youngster, if you work at a vets surely you must recognise a very poor conditioned animal and recognise that a vet is needed sooner rather than later, animals get taken away from owners for being that poor.
Have you shown the photos to any vets?

I agree the other horse looks under muscled and possibly wormy but not skinny just not in great condition all round.
		
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Yes I did recognise that this horse was in poor condition but you also have to realise I'm not getting anything out of this,  the owner is paying for the horses nor their treatment. So I didn't want to call the vet down right away and spend my own money.


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## SO1 (7 January 2016)

I would worm count both horses and saliva test for tapeworm as well - westgate can supply both these tests and it would cost less than getting the vet.

I know the owner told you the horses had been wormed but there is some resistance to wormers and young horses are more prone to worms and may need a different worming program compared to an adult horse. If the worm counts and saliva tests come back clear and the horses are being fed ad lib hay and also a hard feed and are well rugged then the owner needs to get the vet to come out and check the younger horses.

With regard to worming my pony who is very good doer became whippet thin and  he was on a vet approved worming program with worm counts and two tape wormers a year. After spending nearly £3000 of insurance money on tests including an ECG and heart scan he was blood tested for tapeworm and turned out despite having the two tape wormers a year he had a very bad tape worm infestation and the rest of the herd was tested and they all had tapeworm burdens. I don't know how it got so bad because everyone said they worming regularly. 

From this experience and whatever worming program I was on and even if everyone said they were worming regularly, if a horse lost weight and was being fed plenty of food I would definitely worm count and saliva test for tapeworm before starting on expensive vet calls outs.


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## Fun Times (7 January 2016)

To be honest, much as you are trying to help they are ultimately not your responsibility and  I am not convinced that the owner shouldn't be reported for the state of the younger one.


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## chillipup (7 January 2016)

Hillbillylucy said:



			Hello, first thing to say this is not my horse. I'm purely look after her two horses as the owner doesn't have time for them/ cannot be bothered. 
Horse number 1 is a young (3 this summer) is in a terrible condition, very thin no fat or muscle along his vertebrae etc. Also has rain rot which I'm trying so hard to sort out but it won't go away (please if anyone has advice on this that would be appreciated too). I've used hibi scrub, iodine, aloe vera shampoos and medicated ones too also the rug is not leaking as he has a new one.  
The owner has said that she's worried that this horse is growing as much as he should be so did mention about supplementing some calcium. Currently he is on sugar beet only (allen and page fast soak one)


Horse number 2 is currently on the same diet only but is very fizzy and extremely flighty,  I was wondering if there is diet that might help this... I did look at allen and page calm and condition, has anyone used this before??
		
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On 04.01.16 you told the forum you had both these horses on loan from your best friend for the last 4/5 months and you asked about the youngster having cow hocks and whether to buy her or not.  What loan arrangement do you have with the owner? You are responsible for their welfare if you have them on loan. Get a vet out and start looking after this animal.


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## thatsmygirl (8 January 2016)

Fun Times said:



			To be honest, much as you are trying to help they are ultimately not your responsibility and  I am not convinced that the owner shouldn't be reported for the state of the younger one.
		
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chillipup said:



			On 04.01.16 you told the forum you had both these horses on loan from your best friend for the last 4/5 months and you asked about the youngster having cow hocks and whether to buy her or not.  What loan arrangement do you have with the owner? You are responsible for their welfare if you have them on loan. Get a vet out and start looking after this animal.
		
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I'm not sure we are getting the whole truth!!
If the owners aren't doing a lot and aren't interested personally I would report them as u can't spend all your money on other people's horses and what happens if you move on or aren't around?
But if the above is true and you have these on loan ( why say it on a thread if you haven't)then u need a serious think on things and the vet needs to come out asap. I do feel by some things u say that you aren't experienced either,please get help op before you are reported if they are on loan


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## 9tails (8 January 2016)

If they're on loan, it's your responsibility to get the vet out.  I'd be very suspicious that at least the youngster has a heavy tapeworm burden, likely the older one too.


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## chillipup (8 January 2016)

Hillbillylucy, If you are struggling with the situation please PM me and I will try to help you.


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## LovesCobs (8 January 2016)

the only feed that worked for me last year (pony dropping weight even though on ad-lib hay and had been having baileys conditioning mix and sugar beet) was slobber mash and was recommended by pony Club DC who had had similar issues. you'd have to look up what is in it though as I don't need it this year and can't remember


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## twiggy2 (8 January 2016)

Hillbillylucy said:



			Yes I did recognise that this horse was in poor condition but you also have to realise I'm not getting anything out of this,  the owner is paying for the horses nor their treatment. So I didn't want to call the vet down right away and spend my own money.
		
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by ignoring a horse in such poor condition you are as guilty as the owner in my eyes, you either call a vet and pay or call world horse welfare and report the youngsters condition-you don't ignore it for your own gain of enjoying the other horse


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## rachk89 (8 January 2016)

It doesnt really matter if you have the horses on loan or they are yours. You get a vet either way, you have an obligation as you took on responsibility for them. When I had a horse on loan, I asked his owner if I should get a vet for his lameness. They said not to and to wait a few days, but I panicked and called one anyway. Made no difference as they couldnt find a reason for why he was lame, but at least I did the right thing. I did all that I could.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (8 January 2016)

The second horse is a welfare case, if you are responsible you could be prosecuted. Get a vet out TAKE HIS ADVICE, and feed them PROPERLY.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (9 January 2016)

fatpiggy said:



			Hay hay and more hay.  If he is growing fast then the calcium is a good idea but I wouldn't use any fancy feeds or you could risk him growing upwards even more rather than outwards, and then you might be facing joint problems and even possible wobblers. Personally I like to see youngsters looking a bit on the lean side, it is natural.  This muggy weather is probably aggravating the rain rot.  I recommend a good powdering with Keratex Mud Fever powder and treat the rug as well as Dermatophillus spreads very easily.

Horse number 2 I would say more hay too and perhaps something like high fibre nuts. Is it older and working?   In the past many horses did perfectly well on nothing more than simple hay and grass and hard food was only used for competing animals and hunters.
		
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a bit on the lean side............ its a hat rack, no excuses, it is needing veterinary attention.


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## EQUIDAE (9 January 2016)

OP that youngster is in a dreadful state - if you have been in sole charge for 4-5 months as has been suggested, then you could be prosecuted. The horse needs to see a vet ASAP.


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## Fun Times (9 January 2016)

Fun Times said:



			To be honest, much as you are trying to help they are ultimately not your responsibility and  I am not convinced that the owner shouldn't be reported for the state of the younger one.
		
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I must point out that when I made this comment I was under the illusion that the OP simply "helps out" the owner on an ad-hoc basis. If, however, the position in the other thread posted by the OP is correct and these horses are in fact on loan to the OP, then OP I retract my statement that you are not responsible for their welfare and you must take action immediately. I do hope the owner isn't under the mistaken impression that you have been properly looking after these horses. The state of these horses is a disgrace.


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## Leo Walker (9 January 2016)

Just to second what other people have said, the youngster is so poor its a welfare case. If you are responsible for them, no matter how that came about then you are just a phone call away from being in big trouble! I'd worm the youngster now, with Panacur guard, then worm count after that and go from there. He/she also needs food! And a vet check as there are things that can mean horses go downhill quickly. 

If you dont want to do that, then hand them back and call in a welfare organisation, NOT the RSPCA! But WHW etc who will actually do something. I know it must be hard if they arent yours, but I couldnt sleep at night knowing that he/she was so poor. Rain scald is the least of your problems!


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## Goldenstar (9 January 2016)

Hillbillylucy said:



http://i.imgur.com/eYXYb9K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7eassqf.jpg

Horse number 2 is the darker of the two
		
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You need to seek advice ASAP from a equine vet do not delay .the condition of the young horse is not acceptable .
You are a risk of prosecution if you have care and control of these horses .
Call a vet get advice and follow it .


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## chillipup (9 January 2016)

Hillbillylucy, I've PM you, I've asked you to PM me, I've offered help. You have not replied. I'm sure everyone on here would rather you got help for the youngster, than get prosecuted. Please take the advice offered. If you don't want to PM me, Pm someone else, just talk it through and lets get this poor pony some help before it's too late.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (9 January 2016)

There is a possibility that the owner can sign over the horses to the RSPCA. 

I am amazed that no one has reported these horses. 

If you cannot look after them and the owner cannot then it is better to shoot them than to let them suffer.


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## twiggy2 (10 January 2016)

Bonkers2 said:



			There is a possibility that the owner can sign over the horses to the RSPCA. 

I am amazed that no one has reported these horses. 

If you cannot look after them and the owner cannot then it is better to shoot them than to let them suffer.
		
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they have been wearing rugs so I don't suppose anyone really knows how poor the youngster is.
OP I agree with chillipup that youngster needs professional help it is possibly past the point of just feeding a lot and will need medical support to prevent the body going into shutdown-please get some help. I am happy for you to PM me.


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## thatsmygirl (10 January 2016)

Op seems to have disappeared. Head in sand comes to mind


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## SmallHunter (10 January 2016)

thatsmygirl said:



			Op seems to have disappeared. Head in sand comes to mind
		
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Seems not! http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ar-old-with-cow-hocks&p=13138521#post13138521

They are both in an appalling state!


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## EQUIDAE (10 January 2016)

SmallHunter said:



			Seems not! http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ar-old-with-cow-hocks&p=13138521#post13138521

They are both in an appalling state!
		
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Doesn't look like they have posted on there since the 4th though


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## thatsmygirl (10 January 2016)

SmallHunter said:



			Seems not! http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ar-old-with-cow-hocks&p=13138521#post13138521

They are both in an appalling state!
		
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So it seems they are in her care then ( loan) disgusting, she's a vet nurse and has had these horses for 4/5 months and still look like that! I honestly hope they are reported to give the horses a chance.


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## twiggy2 (10 January 2016)

thatsmygirl said:



			So it seems they are in her care then ( loan) disgusting, she's a vet nurse and has had these horses for 4/5 months and still look like that! I honestly hope they are reported to give the horses a chance.
		
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I don't think OP says anywhere that she is a vet nurse (unless I missed that) just that she works at a vets


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## amandaco2 (18 January 2016)

Adlib hay.
Grazing.
I feed copra, fast fibre and pro balance plus salt.
I tried lots of condition feeds. Copra worked amazingly


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## Hillbillylucy (18 January 2016)

Hi, these two our not in my care. 
I have bought the 2 1/2 with cow hocks which I previously posted about. He isn't skinny and is doing perfectly fine and the other horse is tb that I'm helping my friend out with. 
They are both completely different horses that I'm talking about but the very skinny youngster lives in the field across which I have decided to help as well due to never seeing the owner. 

No I'm not a vet nurse. 

I took the little youngster to the vets and he had various tests done, blood work the whole lot. And it showed up with a lot of badness and also found out that he had a severe heart murmur. The vets have got in contact with the owner and they have had him pts. 
Please don't get on your high horse, I did what was best for that horse and spent a fair bit considering he isn't even my responsibility!!

Also for those saying it was worms their worm count is extremely low!


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## amandaco2 (18 January 2016)

Don't forget encycsted and tape worm, nor to check teeth


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