# clover, please give opinions



## moodiestmare (20 August 2008)

My fields are over run with clover and it is really,really thick.

I thought it wasn't very good for the horses and they won't eat it.

I've just rang a couple of county stores to see if they had anything like verdone (to kill clover) in stock and they have both questioned why I want to kill clover as it is supposed to be good for grass.

Half of my paddocks are nothing but clover and there is hardly any grass!

Was I wrong in thinking it needs to be removed?

Thanks


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## spottybotty (20 August 2008)

I think it depends on the type of clover?


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## metalmare (20 August 2008)

I understand that it is good although I think if you have too much you may have excess nitrogen because I believe they planted clover for cattle.

I'm sure someone much more knowledgable will fill us in!


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## moodiestmare (20 August 2008)

it is white clover. I didn't know there was a different sort!


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## spottybotty (20 August 2008)

metalmare, you are right about the nitrogen,


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## moodiestmare (20 August 2008)

Eek! Does this mean a weed killer to kill clover will not work?


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## Baileyhoss (20 August 2008)

clover isn't bad for them, can just be more fattening than normal grass.


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## _daisy_ (20 August 2008)

its good for grass if you are grazing cows - something to do with the milk yield i believe.
but for horses i hate the damn stuff. 2 of mine are allergic to the white flowers plus my field is overrun with it and i have a laminitic pony who should not eat it due to the protein levels (?) which increases her attacks


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## moodiestmare (20 August 2008)

My horses won't touch it so I am worried I will run out of grazing for them if I don't remove it. How is it good for grass though when gras can't grow through it?


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## metalmare (20 August 2008)

It's not that it's good for the grass but that herbs are beneficial for horses just as they are for us.  If you can pick up a decent book on horse land managment it will suggest herbs and grasses to plant for maximum nutrition.  Perhaps in an ideal pasture mineral licks and supps wouldn't be needed?


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## wench (20 August 2008)

my horse loves the stuff¬


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## _daisy_ (20 August 2008)

sorry meant to say, its not good for the field not grass as cows love the stuff. it takes over the grass so eventually hardly any grass will be there but lots of lover. My field is proof of this as farmer doesnt want to kill or get rid of it but i do 
	
	
		
		
	


	





there are some great products on the market to get shut of the stuff. Think one is called forefront? cant remember the other names for the other products but can let you know later on tonight. You can pull the stuff out as well.


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## moodiestmare (20 August 2008)

Fantastic! Thank you! If I was going to pull it out it would take me a year!


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## Madasmaz (20 August 2008)

White clover is really not good for horses...it release cyanins...suggest you get them off it because they will eat it when nothing else is available. I know of at least one horse that died due to laminitis after being grazed on clover pasture...please get your horses off it...its listed as a medium risk plant

http://www.nativeponiesonline.co.uk/information/poisonous_plants.html

http://www.equine-world.co.uk/horses_care/poisonous.htm

Irritatiingly there doesn't appear to be much on the www, but know I read in one of the books I have at home that it can do nasty things. I do know that when my pony shared the same pasture as the laminitic she reached 600kg from 400kg in weeks...not good for a NF and I moved very quickly under advisement of very experienced old friends.


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## moodiestmare (20 August 2008)

I am glad then that I wasn't mad in wanting to remove it. It just threw me out that 2 county stores told me it was wrong to.


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## flyingfeet (20 August 2008)

To say clover isn't good for horses is very generalistic, there are 3 main types in this country, white, red and strawberry clover. 

Now white clover won't do much harm, but red clover has got more nitrogen in it. If you were planting a clover ley to improve fertility then you'd go for red usually. 

It is good for the grass, as it has nodules on its roots where a symbiotic bacteria fixes nitrogen which increases fertility

Now if you want to get rid of it, best method is to top the paddock. Clover will not stand regular cutting and this is much more environmentally friendly than rushing to spray! 

Our horses scoff white clover and other than being fattening, it has no ill effects.


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## Madasmaz (20 August 2008)

Just so you know, this is what it says in the book by Keith Allison..."A guide to plants poisonous to horses"...a very good buy.

To para phrase, there are many cultivars grown for hay or for ploughing into soil to increase nitrogen content, including red, white and alsike. Poisoning principles and symptoms: Clovers may contain oestrogens, cyanogenic glycosides, goitrogens, nitrates and other substances which may cause health problems in horses. They can be associated with laminitis, blood coagulation disorders and photosensitivity. There are also diseases that may be caused by fungi which infect clover. Whilst clover has cuased poisoning in horses, due to agricultural methods and possibly the strains of the plant available, there are few reported cases in Britian.

So, I think this says, don't panic, no need to totally erradicate, but do control it...if it can't stand cutting then go for it, although, I did have a clump in my lawn which seemed to spread further every time I mowed so I dug it up and re-seeded. And thinking about it, the only time I have ever had to use suncream on my pony's white heel was when she was on the clover field. Was 3 years ago though. YO wanted us to move onto a field previously used for potatoe growing...what a nutter!


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## Marianne19 (11 September 2008)

Hi, we have had problems with clover taking over in our fields - my yearling and another gelding on our yard has come down with something  - they keep urinating and stand with their back legs right under them - also very stiff hind-quarters - nearly falling over backwards 
anyone know what this could be ??
Marianne


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## gerne (4 October 2008)

Clover is indeen a nitrogen fixer thus helps fertilising the pasture as CotswoldSJ stated correctly. However having searched a lot on the net it looks like red clover is more dangerous to horses than white clover. Apart from fattening the animals with the related problems including laminitis the photosensitivity is something we have observed personally as well (mudfever in the summer). http://www.extension.umn.edu/horse/components/pdfs/factsheets/clover%20fs.pdf mentiones the problems to be associated with diseased clover mainly of fungal origin but declares them a healthy food otherwise. 
General recomendations seem to suggest that 10% white clover is okay in pastures. We have pretty much 90% and I just decided to cut them off at the top. Apparently they don't like cutting too much but I can't confirm that regarding our lawn at home


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## JanetGeorge (4 October 2008)

I have a lot of white clover and the horses eat it along with everything else - never had a problem.

Cutting does NOT control clover though - it encourages it - because it doesn't like being shaded/crowded out by long grass (which is why you don't generally have much clover in fields cut for hay rather than grazed.

If you're concerned about excess clover, Grazon 90 will check/kill it - but the grass won't then grow as well because it will have less Nitrogen available.


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## RWren (6 October 2008)

Up until two days ago I also believed that clover was ok for horses, just a bit rich. However, my horse has just suffered from clover poisoning. The symptoms included shaking and uncoorditation. He found it difficult to control his back legs and nearly fell over. He was also struggling to swallow, was tucked up and was over sensitive.

Fortunately, I was told that clover poisoning is very rare and the other five horses on the same field are unaffected. However, my vet has said they have seen several cases this year as the weather conditions have caused the spread of clover. I will now be making sure that I get rid of all of the clover in my fields.


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## flyingfeet (6 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Cutting does NOT control clover though - it encourages it - because it doesn't like being shaded/crowded out by long grass (which is why you don't generally have much clover in fields cut for hay rather than grazed. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry my degree is Crop Science, so this is inaccurate!

When I said topping, I mean cut it regularly - going in twice a year isn't good enough! Only grass can stand regular cutting, which is why you don't find clover (or much else) in your lawns. 

Please read this study: http://www.fao.org/docrep/v2350e/v2350e0h.htm
Clover under T1 - cut every 10 days has the lowest yield as it cannot stand constant cutting.


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