# If you could get rid of one Olympic sport, which would it be?



## vallin (7 August 2016)

A bit of a tounge in cheek post given the current threat to horse sports - if it was up to you which Olympic sport would you bin?

Synchronised swimming is first to bin on my list - I kind of appreciate the skill involved by just why?!


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## Cinnamontoast (7 August 2016)

Boxing. I hate it, it's so prehistoric! People hitting each other, it's just ridiculous!


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## Madam Min (7 August 2016)

Beach volleyball!!!!


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## numptynoelle (7 August 2016)

Golf - there's no need for it at the best of times, let alone in the Olympics. 

(p.s. We now have an Olympics section here :wink3: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?59-Equestrian-News-and-Olympics)


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## Dreckly (7 August 2016)

I do not have a problem with any of the above being in as they are minority sports (boxing perhaps not). My hate is the big time sports like Tennis, Golf, Football. No way should they be in the Olympics. There are other sports more deserving of the exposure


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## MotherOfChickens (7 August 2016)

golf. then table tennis.


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## teapot (7 August 2016)

Rhythmic gymnastics


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## vallin (7 August 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			golf. then table tennis.
		
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Golf, yes, table tennis no - freekin love that sport - it's madness?


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## SO1 (7 August 2016)

Football as there are already so many big football competitions and footballers are already overpaid and too many badly behaved supporters as well.


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## Fidgety (7 August 2016)

All of the ones mentioned so far.  There's nothing about physical endurance about any of them.  To my mind, that is what the Olympic spirit should be about - highest, fastest, heaviest lifting, furthest throwing, the one closest to being without fault...


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## ScottyJ (7 August 2016)

Speed walking!! although it is kind of hilarious to watch


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## Peregrine Falcon (7 August 2016)

Beach volleyball.  It's just a spectator sport really!


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## McFluff (7 August 2016)

Golf and football. 
I love seeing the more unusual sports getting airtime. Currently watching fencing


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## Fiona (7 August 2016)

I'd  get rid of golf and then football. ..

The golf is a real  farce, maybe if they had restricted  to amateurs it would be different.  

Fiona


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## only_me (7 August 2016)

Golf! 

And BMX. Tbh I thought that was an april fools!!


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## Jenni_ (7 August 2016)

Beach volleyball be gone!

Don't agree with boxing being prehistoric. What spectators see is the people hitting eachother.

What people who appreciate the sport see is the discipline and respect that goes on behind the scenes. You see those idiots like mayweather and Tyson fury trash talking eachother and causing ruckus but the sport is actually about respecting your opponent and respecting yourself. 

Boxing gave me a bit direction in life when I was younger, at a time when I couldn't afford to ride, and I wasn't having the best time at home. It gave me somewhere to be, and people to look up to. It's an ancient sport, and is stuck about for the right reasons IMO.


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## Fools Motto (7 August 2016)

Football and golf for sure, for the reasons already mentioned. Thankgod we don't have darts!!
Can cope with most of the others, don't know a thing about 'handball'? (just looked at the list of all sports) and I do think synchronised swimming is a bit puzzling!


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## hackneylass2 (8 August 2016)

Football, handball and Synchronised swimming to name a few.
Not bothered really, I just don't watch the sports I find boring.


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## Wheels (8 August 2016)

I wonder if the synchronised swimming forum is having a similar convo about dressage lol


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## stencilface (8 August 2016)

Football, golf, tennis. Love seeing less seen sports on TV, I got right into the fencing last night.

As a nomination for new sports I'd say squash, and I've heard surfing will be in in 2020 which I personally think is great


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## stencilface (8 August 2016)

Also loving the women's rugby sevens


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## ycbm (8 August 2016)

Seriously?  I'd remove all the equestrian sport. You can't get there without equipment (the horse) worth many hundreds of thousands of pounds. It costs ridiculous amounts of money to transport and support that equipment, and it's as elitist as you can possibly get.

It's a farce when the eventing is reduced in height and difficulty to a three star instead of a four star to give more countries a chance.

The starving poor of Rio (and there are a lot of them)  have been making it clear how they feel about the kind of money that's been spent on building the equestrian venue.


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## ycbm (8 August 2016)

Oops, sorry, got a bit serious there!

Synchronised swimming and rhythmic gymnastics, definitely!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (8 August 2016)

Golf. tennis football, darts. snooker/billiards. and gurning
Replace with cheese rolling, pub skittles/boules and caber tossing, and horsehoes round-a-post


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## Exploding Chestnuts (8 August 2016)

cinnamontoast said:



			Boxing. I hate it, it's so prehistoric! People hitting each other, it's just ridiculous!
		
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Agree. I was astonished to see they have no head guards, its terrible.


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## Lexi_ (8 August 2016)

Anything where the Olympics isn't the pinnacle of that sport. Things like golf, football, tennis - they'd clearly rather win a masters/World Cup. 

I still don't understand how squash and netball aren't included.


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## Amye (8 August 2016)

Golf!!  Yawn! Cannot understand why that is a Olympic sport and something like squash isn't.


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## Pippity (8 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			Anything where the Olympics isn't the pinnacle of that sport. Things like golf, football, tennis - they'd clearly rather win a masters/World Cup.
		
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I'd never thought about it like that, but it perfectly ties in with my opinions!

And I wouldn't get rid of beach volleyball, but I'd change the outfits. Either put the women in full clothing, or put the men in skimpy little speedos!


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## Crackerz (8 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			Anything where the Olympics isn't the pinnacle of that sport. Things like golf, football, tennis - they'd clearly rather win a masters/World Cup. 

I still don't understand how squash and netball aren't included.
		
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This!!

I'd also get rid of Fencing - it's far more boring than even Golf...


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## ScottyJ (8 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			Anything where the Olympics isn't the pinnacle of that sport. Things like golf, football, tennis - they'd clearly rather win a masters/World Cup.
		
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This is a great thought actually. It would mean our eventing would go though! I do see the sense in it not being included though.


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## splashgirl45 (8 August 2016)

football.....overpaid, badly behaved brats......i know not all of them are but it puts me off of the sport completely..


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## sasquatch (8 August 2016)

I'd probably get rid of football as it currently is, or change the football to a smaller format like 5-a-side like they have done with the rugby 7s. Unfortunately, women's football doesn't get half as much coverage as the mens it seems. It's also already got a massive following and WC, various leagues etc and is all pretty big money.

I like that rugby is there in the form of 7s, and that the women's game seems to be getting so much coverage! especially as whilst there is a 7s world cup, it's not the same as pro league/union rugby and isn't half as big as union/league and more accessible to 'non-rugby' nations. 

Definitely get rid of beach volleyball - normal volleyball is in the Olympics so I don't see why they can't just combine the two.


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## teapot (8 August 2016)

It's taken until 2016 for sevens to be there though, hence all the coverage I think.


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## LeannePip (8 August 2016)

ScottyJ said:



			Speed walking!! although it is kind of hilarious to watch
		
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I had no idea that was a thing! 



ScottyJ said:



			This is a great thought actually. It would mean our eventing would go though! I do see the sense in it not being included though.
		
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i don't agree with that.  I still think the Olympics is the pinnacle of this sport - Badminton is a huge achievement and a win there is beyond anyones wildest dreams but i think even those who have achieved the feat would still be after a win or even just a team place at olympic level.

i would be away with rhythmic gymnastics (although i love all the other gymnastics) and golf.

One thing i would like to change is making the dressage of the 3DE a free style routine (with or without music) there is only so many times you can watch the same test and keep non horsey peoples interest/ attention!


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## teapot (8 August 2016)

LeannePip said:



			One thing i would like to change is making the dressage of the 3DE a free style routine (with or without music) there is only so many times you can watch the same test and keep non horsey peoples interest/ attention!
		
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But that distracts from the origins of the sport. At least in eventing dressage you' see the mistakes


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (8 August 2016)

Football deffo.

Give us a break from it for Gawd's sake.


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## vallin (8 August 2016)

ycbm said:



			Seriously?  I'd remove all the equestrian sport. You can't get there without equipment (the horse) worth many hundreds of thousands of pounds. It costs ridiculous amounts of money to transport and support that equipment, and it's as elitist as you can possibly get.

It's a farce when the eventing is reduced in height and difficulty to a three star instead of a four star to give more countries a chance.

The starving poor of Rio (and there are a lot of them)  have been making it clear how they feel about the kind of money that's been spent on building the equestrian venue.
		
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It was already there as was used for the pan am games. If you're going down that line then the whole of the games in Rio is bloody ridiculous - there's no way I'd be sailing in that water!


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## LeannePip (8 August 2016)

teapot said:



			But that distracts from the origins of the sport. At least in eventing dressage you' see the mistakes
		
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But then surely so does the pure dressage final?

I think there are enough opportunities over the three days for mistakes to be shown that we shouldn't need to sit through 2days of the same test.  Every competitor still has to execute the same moves but as with the pure dressage they can highlight their strengths.  there was lots of talk after London about making it more interesting viewing for non horsey viewers to the point where there where discussions of binning top hat and tails as it was viewed to elitist


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## Jo_x (8 August 2016)

the football - none of the football fans I know give a toss about olympic football, its not a coveted title in the sport at all.

And rhythmic gymnastics - don't get it at all, but I suspect a lot of people think that about dressage!


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## ester (8 August 2016)

I do wonder if we need quite so much swimming , so many distances, so many strokes and the same people competing and winning several times over, more so than in any other olympic sport.


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## ponies4ever (8 August 2016)

GOLF. both my brother and dad are huge followers of the sport however both agree that none of the players are bothered by the title and so it really has no place. very much agree with this as i can't even tolerate being in the same room as it when its on the tv!


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## case895 (8 August 2016)

Football, golf and tennis. They have their own professional circuits.

I am just glad that snooker, darts, shovehappeny and other pub games have not been included.


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## hackneylass2 (9 August 2016)

Cant wholeheartedly agree that equestrian events should be banned as it's elitist, most riders don't ride their own horses anyway.  Really, to get to Olympian level in the vast majority of sports, you are relying on money to be able to devote your life to training and competing.   Most athletes here rely on funding to enable them to train. I expect its a similar case for other countries. What I really disagree with is the 'target' amount of medals athletes are expected to win at each games, if its down on the target, funding gets reduced or pulled from certain athletes for the next games. I guess what it all really comes down to is the country that can spend the most will triumph in a lot of cases. No easy answer to this one really. Lots of countries, including our own, have homeless, starving and  downtrodden people, I guess that in Rio, with the  favellas being so close to the uber smart dwellings of the rich, the disparity really does come under the spotlight.
I enjoy watching a lot of the minority sports and really am looking forward to the surfing in 2020.


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## ester (9 August 2016)

I always think the shooting is a bit of an odd one too, though it is at least one of those things you don't have to be a professional at to do well. 

Yes lots of countries have homeless, starving people. I think Brazil probably has more than anywhere else that has held an olympic games in recent times though? In Rio one in seven lives in a favela and I think it would be wrong to sweep that under the carpet and the amount of money spent on this short period given the current economic and political issues in Brazil. 

One thing I thought yesterday was I bet they had nicer water to get that grass to grow than most of the city have access to.


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## stencilface (9 August 2016)

You can only hope that perhaps being the first south american nation to host the games that this creates more interest in people going to Brazil, and promoting sport in the country. Maybe it will inspire a surge in interest in sports accessible to those in the favelas? I think the Zika virus amongst other things has created bad feeling towards these games, whereas realistically the risk for a tourist staying in a clean hotel is probably reasonably minimal.

Yes, there's a lot of poverty in Brazil however there's no reason to think this Olympic money would have been spent on those people sadly! 

And I'm not so sure about the water quality either - a bit of ammonia in it would make the grass grow lovely 

I also love the fact that the diving and swimming are outside, now there's confidence in your weather!


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## ester (9 August 2016)

Fewer lumpy bits to get it through the sprinklers 

Oh I don't expect for a minute it would have been spent on them, I just don't think it should be ignored or said that oh well, everywhere is like that. I do hope it brings enough money in to be worth it.


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## LeannePip (9 August 2016)

stencilface said:



			I also love the fact that the diving and swimming are outside, now there's confidence in your weather!
		
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I thought this too - we dont have much in the way of budget but we do have the weather!


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## conniegirl (9 August 2016)

Boxing! for an event that is supposed to promote peace and working together I realy dont get how beating each others brains out is fitting?
Not to mention the major health concerns due to repeated blows to the head!


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## Rowreach (9 August 2016)

Modern pentathlon, surely?  Or at least the element when bad riders get on borrowed horses and hammer them round a show jumping course.  If this is an Olympic sport, surely the athletes should be able to perform at a high standard in each of the disciplines.


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## AnShanDan (9 August 2016)

Have to agree about golf, esp. considering the comments of some "top" golfers on the subject: they can't be bothered going to the olympics, well I can't be bothered watching golf!

I like the tennis, maybe because we have the current olympic champion in andy murray, but when you see how upset Djokociv was at losing his first round match, I think he def. cared a lot.


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## sasquatch (9 August 2016)

ester said:



			Yes lots of countries have homeless, starving people. I think Brazil probably has more than anywhere else that has held an olympic games in recent times though? In Rio one in seven lives in a favela and I think it would be wrong to sweep that under the carpet and the amount of money spent on this short period given the current economic and political issues in Brazil. 

One thing I thought yesterday was I bet they had nicer water to get that grass to grow than most of the city have access to.
		
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I think China has more poverty than Brazil, they certainly have controversial politics and human rights records. I know it has a bigger population, but some parts of China are very impoverished, whilst others do well.


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## ester (9 August 2016)

I did say probably, and as with all things just because it is also a problem elsewhere doesn't mean the issue should be swept under the carpet.
and China had an economy booming, Brazil is in recession and political turmoil.


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## Annagain (9 August 2016)

If the Olympics is not the biggest thing in the sport, it shouldn't be in the Olympics so definitely golf. If the top players can't be bothered why should the rest of us care? Same with the football (men's at least). Limiting it to under 23s is a bit of a cop out to explain why the top players aren't there. Having said that 20 years ago I would have classed Tennis in the same bracket, but it seems to be more of a priority now so maybe things will change.


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## teapot (9 August 2016)

LeannePip said:



			But then surely so does the pure dressage final?

I think there are enough opportunities over the three days for mistakes to be shown that we shouldn't need to sit through 2days of the same test.  Every competitor still has to execute the same moves but as with the pure dressage they can highlight their strengths.  there was lots of talk after London about making it more interesting viewing for non horsey viewers to the point where there where discussions of binning top hat and tails as it was viewed to elitist
		
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If you changed it for the Olympics, you'd have to change throughout the sport and eventing dressage isn't about 'highlighting individual strengths' imho. 

I'd bin pure dressage, because it doesn't do anything for me but that's a personal thing.


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## Spilletta (9 August 2016)

My choice would be golf. Nothing against it in general, but it seems clear to me that a lot of players aren't bothered.

I think if competitors of a sport don't regard Olympic selection (let alone a medal) as a major highlight in their career then drop the sport and give another one a chance for exposure.


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## Lexi_ (9 August 2016)

While we're all having a mini Olympics rant, I'd standardise it so that there are either automatic joint bronzes for anything involving a semi final or that all losing semi finalists in all sports have to have a playoff for bronze. I don't really care which way it goes but it seems really unfair that judo, boxing etc get treated differently from fencing, rugby and suchlike.


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## teapot (9 August 2016)

judo does have bronze medals matches though?


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## Lexi_ (9 August 2016)

teapot said:



			judo does have bronze medals matches though?
		
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Well there were definitely two people on the bronze bit of the podium the other day!

Nitpicking about sports aside, it's still not a fair process across the whole games.


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## ester (9 August 2016)

It seems that judo has 2 bronze medal bouts, between 4 different competitors so 2 bronze medals because they have it set up that no one fights each other twice. 

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-two-bronze-medals-given-in-Olympic-judo-competitions


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## teapot (9 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			Well there were definitely two people on the bronze bit of the podium the other day!

Nitpicking about sports aside, it's still not a fair process across the whole games.
		
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Identical scores? Or offer two medals because of the vast numbers of competitors?


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## Goldenstar (9 August 2016)

numptynoelle said:



			Golf - there's no need for it at the best of times, let alone in the Olympics. 

(p.s. We now have an Olympics section here :wink3: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?59-Equestrian-News-and-Olympics)
		
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Defiantly golf ,
However it's not without its uses it gets retired husbands out the house for the day .


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## Annagain (9 August 2016)

I don't think a boxer who loses a match is allowed to box again for a certain amount of time as they might have sustained a head injury so a bronze match would be impossible.


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## duckling (10 August 2016)

I'd get rid of golf and football. I don't really understand why golf was introduced - particularly considering eventing has been threatened due to the space required to build a XC course, how is a golf course any different?! 

Football is pointless in the Olympics, none of the big names are there and no one really cares about it. My OH loves football, was glued to the Euros / World Cup, but won't watch any of the Olympic matches or even follow the scores. During London 2012, we went to watch a match between GB and Korea in Cardiff - it was awful! People around us were laughing at the poor standard of football and a lot left before the match was finished as it was that dull.


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## DanceswithCows (10 August 2016)

Golf and football - straight out the door.  They just seem pointless because as a lot of people have said, all the interest is elsewhere.

I constantly debate with myself about horse sports.  On the one hand, I do believe that our historical skill with horses has served the human race well, it's a real skill and a mental and physical test of both horse and rider.  XC and jumping I get from that angle, because of the cavalry being-able-to-ride-a-horse-over-anything-is-handy link, but dressage?  It's just getting your horse to look fancy and is dull and incomprehensible for nonhorsey and even nondressagey spectators...but then, it's taking our 'mastery' of the horse as a tool (like a bike?) to it's logical conclusion, showing *just* how obedient you can get a horse to be, as well as how fast and high?  Then you get into the whole ethics thing - blue tongues, nosebands cutting into faces.  Competitors can't even *choose* to be bitless.  It all badly needs updating.  

I feel at the very, very least to update dressage for a modern audience they should allow competitors to choose their tack more and bin the tops and tails - crash helmets, sportswear with names on so watchers can recognise the horses and riders.  Make the riders look more accessible and less elitist (make sure they smile and give charismatic interviews?  we need a dressage badboy fo the sport!  something to get people interested!).  They need some really good introductions to get the audience up to speed on what's happening, explain why dressage is cool and relevent, really break it down and make it accessible.


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## Mooseontheloose (10 August 2016)

If you got rid of football think how many medals you'd save.


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## gnubee (10 August 2016)

Loads of the superfluous swimming and cycling where you generally expect the same people to enter/ win multiple events. To me it appears that the way indoor cycling has expanded is a bit like putting some of the Olympia style speed/ pick a fence/ puissance classes onto the show jumping schedule. Fun to watch but not really showcasing the best of the sport or differentiating between disciplines. It's fine in athletics to have so many distances where it is so competitive that people rarely do well in more than one event (or 2 if they're really good) but any Olympic discipline  where one bloke can get gold in 8 events suggests the field isn't big enough to justify the range.
Also things like football and golf where the best in the world don't consistently want to turn up. If it's not capped for amateurs and it's not prestigious enough that the top pros all want to be there then bin it.


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## Jenni_ (10 August 2016)

conniegirl said:



			Boxing! for an event that is supposed to promote peace and working together I realy dont get how beating each others brains out is fitting?
Not to mention the major health concerns due to repeated blows to the head!
		
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At Olympic level (amateur - semi pro) if your defence is weak enough that you're getting repeated (hard) blows to the head then you're not good enough to be in the ring  That level of competition is done on points, you're aiming for decent landed punches with a bit power to score points rather than knocking someone's head off for a TKO. I would still have head guards at Olympic level though if it was up to me. 

As I've said before, idiots such as Mayweather and Tyson Fury do nothing for boxing. Spend a day in a real training gym and I'd guarantee your attitude would change. Its a sport that does A LOT for communities, at a minimal cost compared to some sports. 

When I was younger, classes cost £1 a week and I went with a pair of £5 gloves and £2 wraps. All other equipment provided. Brilliant sport. I owe a lot to it.


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## conniegirl (10 August 2016)

Jenni, The gym I go to has a proper boxing training section (Luke Campbell trains there) and it has done nothing to change my mind at all. 
I dislike the promotion of violence and the brutishness that comes with it.


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## ester (10 August 2016)

I guess possibly the reason for the superfluous cycling and swimming is that if you have to build a specific venue for it you might as well get a full 2 weeks worth of events out of it!


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## teapot (10 August 2016)

Fairly sure one if not two of the events that Chris Hoy won his six medals in have been scrapped over the years.


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## Jenni_ (10 August 2016)

conniegirl said:



			Jenni, The gym I go to has a proper boxing training section (Luke Campbell trains there) and it has done nothing to change my mind at all. 
I dislike the promotion of violence and the brutishness that comes with it.
		
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Then its not a good gym. We were all instilled from a very young age that what we were doing was dangerous, and that if any of us were caught doing anything outside of training we'd lose our cards and not be allowed to train or compete. 

There will always be the idiots that think they're the big man because they get to hit folk... but they're not the people wanted in the sport.


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## ester (10 August 2016)

but it's violent just by it's very nature? Doesn't matter how good the gym is at the end of the day it is training to hit people! I think that is what conniegirl was getting at.


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## Lexi_ (10 August 2016)

annagain said:



			I don't think a boxer who loses a match is allowed to box again for a certain amount of time as they might have sustained a head injury so a bronze match would be impossible.
		
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Oh I'd not thought about that. But depending on the match and whether it's a close, high scoring contest or a fairly tame affair, couldn't you get punched just as much if you win the former than if you lose the latter? It's a mystery!

Judo gets even more confusing... I've just discovered that they do always give out two bronzes. However, the losing semi finalists don't get given them automatically. They have to both fight a repechage winner to decide who wins the bronzes. I don't quite understand the logic there. Why not just give the bronzes to the semi final losers?


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## conniegirl (10 August 2016)

ester said:



			but it's violent just by it's very nature? Doesn't matter how good the gym is at the end of the day it is training to hit people! I think that is what conniegirl was getting at.
		
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Exactly!


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## Crugeran Celt (10 August 2016)

Beach volleyball,  football because as someone has said the reputation of the spectators is appalling and golf. Saying that at least there is plenty of choice of sports to watch. Really enjoying the diving and 7s rugby.


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## alainax (10 August 2016)

Football, but then I'd get rid of that sport entirely!


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## sasquatch (10 August 2016)

gnubee said:



			Loads of the superfluous swimming and cycling where you generally expect the same people to enter/ win multiple events. To me it appears that the way indoor cycling has expanded is a bit like putting some of the Olympia style speed/ pick a fence/ puissance classes onto the show jumping schedule. Fun to watch but not really showcasing the best of the sport or differentiating between disciplines. It's fine in athletics to have so many distances where it is so competitive that people rarely do well in more than one event (or 2 if they're really good) but any Olympic discipline  where one bloke can get gold in 8 events suggests the field isn't big enough to justify the range.
Also things like football and golf where the best in the world don't consistently want to turn up. If it's not capped for amateurs and it's not prestigious enough that the top pros all want to be there then bin it.
		
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I was thinking about this earlier. Michael Phelps has won 21 gold medals, and swimming must be one of the few sports where you can win several medals a day. I know it's meant to be like Athletics, where they have the 100m/200m/400m etc. but I do think they should put a cap on how many events athletes can enter. 
Eventers enter 1 event made up of 3 separate phases, and can come out with at most 2 medals for individual and team. Swimmers can enter several races, for the same stroke, but over a longer/shorter distance, and come out with as many medals as they've entered for. I think they need to cut down the amount of swimming races, or bring in a rule where an athlete can only enter a max. number of events or are limited to one race a day. 
It might also give others more of a chance, especially as it's apparently meant to promote 'amateur' sportsmen and help develop sports globally, if nations have to limit and chose where they enter their best athletes. 
I can see a similar rule benefiting with the swimming/athletics as well. I do find it boring, it's getting too predictable when you see the starting names and can predict who will be in the medals.

Maybe that's partly why horse sports are so exciting, whilst you can always have a rough idea at who's good, the person top at the leaderboard one day may not be the next


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## spookypony (10 August 2016)

I think a very good reason to keep equestrian disciplines is that it's a level playing field for all genders. I'm personally not hugely fond of popularisation via adding theatrical components, and I personally like the tails (and want to wear some someday). The issue I have with making the eventing dressage (or any) a kur is that it gets away a bit from the whole point of the exercise, which is to demonstrate in a controlled environment (the arena) the exercises of training and obedience that form the foundation for everything the horse and rider do in the "real world". While horse ballet goes back many centuries, for me it belongs more in the sphere of the performing arts than sport.


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## teapot (10 August 2016)

spookypony said:



			The issue I have with making the eventing dressage (or any) a kur is that it gets away a bit from the whole point of the exercise, which is to demonstrate in a controlled environment (the arena) the exercises of training and obedience that form the foundation for everything the horse and rider do in the "real world". While horse ballet goes back many centuries, for me it belongs more in the sphere of the performing arts than sport.
		
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Exactly.


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## tallyho! (11 August 2016)

DanceswithCows said:



			Golf and football - straight out the door.  They just seem pointless because as a lot of people have said, all the interest is elsewhere.

I constantly debate with myself about horse sports.  On the one hand, I do believe that our historical skill with horses has served the human race well, it's a real skill and a mental and physical test of both horse and rider.  XC and jumping I get from that angle, because of the cavalry being-able-to-ride-a-horse-over-anything-is-handy link, but dressage?  It's just getting your horse to look fancy and is dull and incomprehensible for nonhorsey and even nondressagey spectators...but then, it's taking our 'mastery' of the horse as a tool (like a bike?) to it's logical conclusion, showing *just* how obedient you can get a horse to be, as well as how fast and high?  Then you get into the whole ethics thing - blue tongues, nosebands cutting into faces.  Competitors can't even *choose* to be bitless.  It all badly needs updating.  

I feel at the very, very least to update dressage for a modern audience they should allow competitors to choose their tack more and bin the tops and tails - crash helmets, sportswear with names on so watchers can recognise the horses and riders.  Make the riders look more accessible and less elitist (make sure they smile and give charismatic interviews?  we need a dressage badboy fo the sport!  something to get people interested!).  They need some really good introductions to get the audience up to speed on what's happening, explain why dressage is cool and relevent, really break it down and make it accessible.
		
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I think on the whole, equestrian "sport" has become a little embarrassing at the top level. I don't care how "successful" you are but if you need inch-thick nosebands and several bits in one go just to jump, then well, how good are you really? Good at multi-tacking!! There's kids jumping ponies in just a snaffle who ought to be given accolades.

I agree with you completely. 

Also, why only the "english" types of horse sports? What about horseball, working equitation, driving...?


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## shadeofshyness (11 August 2016)

tallyho! said:



			I think on the whole, equestrian "sport" has become a little embarrassing at the top level. I don't care how "successful" you are but if you need inch-thick nosebands and several bits in one go just to jump, then well, how good are you really? Good at multi-tacking!! There's kids jumping ponies in just a snaffle who ought to be given accolades.

I agree with you completely. 

Also, why only the "english" types of horse sports? What about horseball, working equitation, driving...?
		
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Agreed, I think the public would warm to working equitation.

I also think we need to lose the stupid top and tails uniform and wear proper sporting attire for dressage. It's my favourite sport but no wonder the public don't like it - how can they understand a sport where people are dressed like the gentry from the past? It's so outdated in how its presented.


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## Cortez (11 August 2016)

shadeofshyness said:



			Don't agree; in fact I think it should be even OLDER - like doublet and ruffs 

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## Amye (11 August 2016)

shadeofshyness said:



			Agreed, I think the public would warm to working equitation.

I also think we need to lose the stupid top and tails uniform and wear proper sporting attire for dressage. It's my favourite sport but no wonder the public don't like it - how can they understand a sport where people are dressed like the gentry from the past? It's so outdated in how its presented.
		
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I don't mind the outfits. I was pleased though that the whole GB dressage team agreed to wear helmets with chin straps to set a good example to the public.


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## Cortez (11 August 2016)

Amye said:



			I don't mind the outfits. I was pleased though that the whole GB dressage team agreed to wear helmets with chin straps to set a good example to the public.
		
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To set a good example to the public? Oh please!


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## Jenni_ (11 August 2016)

ester said:



			but it's violent just by it's very nature? Doesn't matter how good the gym is at the end of the day it is training to hit people! I think that is what conniegirl was getting at.
		
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Fencing you're essentially stabbing someone with a sword? Wrestling, judo... those are all combat sports where people can get hurt. Boxing just seems the most brutal because its fast paced. 

My friend jokes that she's had more black eyes as a rugby player than I ever have as a boxer. That's another sport where folk are out to take eachother out the game.


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## ycbm (11 August 2016)

Amye said:



			I don't mind the outfits. I was pleased though that the whole GB dressage team agreed to wear helmets with chin straps to set a good example to the public.
		
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I wonder how much the team was paid by the hat maker to set that example to the public ?


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## Amye (11 August 2016)

ycbm said:



			I wonder how much the team was paid by the hat maker to set that example to the public ?
		
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Spencer didn't mention what kind of hat they were wearing in the interview, I have no idea so it doesn't make me want to go out and buy whatever hat they are riding in. 

Even if they are being paid for it, it's still a good thing that they are portraying that it is sensible to wear a hat, especially for young riders. 

IMO.


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## Crackerz (11 August 2016)

DanceswithCows said:



			bin the tops and tails - crash helmets, sportswear with names on so watchers can recognise the horses and riders.  Make the riders look more accessible and less elitist (make sure they smile and give charismatic interviews?  we need a dressage badboy fo the sport!  something to get people interested!).  They need some really good introductions to get the audience up to speed on what's happening, explain why dressage is cool and relevent, really break it down and make it accessible.
		
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I disagree with this, i would hate for the traditional attire to be completely ditched, some things should never change. (hats, yes, but that's safety reasons not for making the sport 'more accessible')


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## ester (11 August 2016)

Jenni_ said:



			Fencing you're essentially stabbing someone with a sword? Wrestling, judo... those are all combat sports where people can get hurt. Boxing just seems the most brutal because its fast paced. 

My friend jokes that she's had more black eyes as a rugby player than I ever have as a boxer. That's another sport where folk are out to take eachother out the game.
		
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Having fenced, it doesn't actually hurt though . 
I don't think it is anything to do with the pace compared to other combat sports, it is the act of actually thumping someone.


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## teapot (11 August 2016)

tallyho! said:



			Also, why only the "english" types of horse sports? What about horseball, working equitation, driving...?
		
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It comes down to numbers of nations involved and space needed. It's why polo got ditched so quickly 



Amye said:



			I don't mind the outfits. I was pleased though that the whole GB dressage team agreed to wear helmets with chin straps to set a good example to the public.
		
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Hahahahaha. 



Jenni_ said:



			That's another sport where folk are out to take each other out the game.
		
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No it isn't - you do that these days and you get binned.


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## sasquatch (11 August 2016)

Jenni_ said:



			Fencing you're essentially stabbing someone with a sword? Wrestling, judo... those are all combat sports where people can get hurt. Boxing just seems the most brutal because its fast paced. 

My friend jokes that she's had more black eyes as a rugby player than I ever have as a boxer. That's another sport where folk are out to take eachother out the game.
		
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Boxing has actually done some great things in NI, Carl Frampton has done a lot for cross-community work, and I know a lot of people who aren't from privileged backgrounds or much money at all, but have had worlds of opportunities opened up for them because they box. And the boxing keeps them off the streets fighting, drinking etc. because they'd rather be in the gym training and not doing anything stupid where they would be not just shutting, but baring the door behind them!

Tbf to rugby, they don't set about with trying to take each other out, but fights do happen. Also know of coaches who in schools level have said to use the 99 call


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## ester (11 August 2016)

I don't think anyone is saying boxing gyms are bad thing and don't do a lot in a lot of problematic communities? Just questioning whether the sport itself sits with the ethos of the olympics.


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## sasquatch (11 August 2016)

ester said:



			I don't think anyone is saying boxing gyms are bad thing and don't do a lot in a lot of problematic communities? Just questioning whether the sport itself sits with the ethos of the olympics.
		
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I would say given the cross-community work, and the fact boxing can do and has done so much for young people and for minorities, it would fit with the ethos.


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## ester (11 August 2016)

But it is what happens in the ring, not behind the scenes that we are judging.


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## duckling (11 August 2016)

Cortez said:



			To set a good example to the public? Oh please!
		
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You say that, but this article about their decision is trending on FB and has almost 5000 people talking about it from countries all over the world: http://horsenetwork.com/2016/08/british-dressage-makes-helmet-statement-rio/

From comments I've read, it's almost overwhelmingly positive support, with a handful saying that they like the fact that they have the choice to wear top hats if they wish.


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## tallyho! (12 August 2016)

teapot said:



			It comes down to numbers of nations involved and space needed. It's why polo got ditched so quickly
		
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Not every nation has representation in equestrian sports though? At least Polo is played in more countries than where eventing is a sport...

Come to think of it, why isn't horse racing included? That's a sport and jockeys have to be super fit to race. The racing horse is the ultimate athlete and racing is in even more countries.

I still think horses should be taken out of the Olympics.


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## teapot (12 August 2016)

tallyho! said:



			Not every nation has representation in equestrian sports though? At least Polo is played in more countries than where eventing is a sport...

Come to think of it, why isn't horse racing included? That's a sport and jockeys have to be super fit to race. The racing horse is the ultimate athlete and racing is in even more countries.

I still think horses should be taken out of the Olympics.
		
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That wasn't my point, you don't have to have every nation BUT you're not going to see the 'lesser' nations compete and that's what the Olympics are about. Take Argentina, could provide many polo teams but not one eventer. Netball's played all over the world but isn't an Olympic sport. 

Racing I'm not sure fits under the definition of an 'Olympic sport'. Besides how would a nation's sports funding fund it? 

The biggest issues re equestrian sports are money and space.


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## sasquatch (12 August 2016)

teapot said:



			That wasn't my point, you don't have to have every nation BUT you're not going to see the 'lesser' nations compete and that's what the Olympics are about. Take Argentina, could provide many polo teams but not one eventer. Netball's played all over the world but isn't an Olympic sport. 

Racing I'm not sure fits under the definition of an 'Olympic sport'. Besides how would a nation's sports funding fund it? 

The biggest issues re equestrian sports are money and space.
		
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Racing I think would be considered too 'pro' and how many jockeys and trainers would really be interested in entering for an Olympic gold, when they could be winning big money elsewhere? on top of that, you'd have to do all the heats/finals as well as decide if hurdles/flat/steeplechase would be used and run various distances.
As it's quite controversial amongst animal rights activists, I can't imagine it would ever make it in due to that. 

I think vaulting should be included. It's more of a niche sport, but would be nice to see as it's not the traditional top hat and tails and 'horse does all the work' type equine sport. It's also not really an English or Western type of equine sport. 

I'd love to see horseball or some of the more 'niche' equine sports as well, or some sports that aren't as traditional, similar to working equitation as well . I know the FEI only recognise a handful of equine sports, and as they hold authority at the Olympics that could come into it as well? FEI doesn't hold authority/govern polo or racing which also may be why they aren't included. 

I would hate to see eventing cut down to something similar to arena eventing or a 2 phase.


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## tallyho! (12 August 2016)

teapot said:



			That wasn't my point, you don't have to have every nation BUT you're not going to see the 'lesser' nations compete and that's what the Olympics are about. Take Argentina, could provide many polo teams but not one eventer. Netball's played all over the world but isn't an Olympic sport. 

Racing I'm not sure fits under the definition of an 'Olympic sport'. Besides how would a nation's sports funding fund it? 

The biggest issues re equestrian sports are money and space.
		
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Why not? It's a race - every bit of that word is a sport. There's racing in swimming, cycling, rowing... a sprint to the finish line is about as sporty as you're going to get.

I understand the space and money issue which is why I think the equestrian section needs updating because as it is now, it's mainly only the nations with bags of money with that get a look in.


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## teapot (12 August 2016)

tallyho! said:



			Why not? It's a race - every bit of that word is a sport. There's racing in swimming, cycling, rowing... a sprint to the finish line is about as sporty as you're going to get.
		
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Because the basic essence of horse racing is about the fastest horse, not the fastest jockey. If you stopped someone in the street I bet you they could name National, Gold Cup or Derby winning horses much quicker than their jockeys.


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## DanceswithCows (12 August 2016)

tallyho! said:



			I think on the whole, equestrian "sport" has become a little embarrassing at the top level. I don't care how "successful" you are but if you need inch-thick nosebands and several bits in one go just to jump, then well, how good are you really? Good at multi-tacking!! There's kids jumping ponies in just a snaffle who ought to be given accolades.

I agree with you completely. 

Also, why only the "english" types of horse sports? What about horseball, working equitation, driving...?
		
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yes!


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## DanceswithCows (12 August 2016)

duckling said:



			You say that, but this article about their decision is trending on FB and has almost 5000 people talking about it from countries all over the world: http://horsenetwork.com/2016/08/british-dressage-makes-helmet-statement-rio/

From comments I've read, it's almost overwhelmingly positive support, with a handful saying that they like the fact that they have the choice to wear top hats if they wish.
		
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Yes, precisely.  I was cheered to read about it and tbh I hope the peeps who don't want the tops and tails to go enjoy watching their sport die at the top levels lol - been on twitter tonight?  Dressage is trending and it ain't pretty reading for the most part!


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## ribbons (13 August 2016)

I'd hate to see the traditional dressage attire changed. It fits perfectly with the grace and harmony of the sport. I really think the helmets spoil the overall appearance, a bit like riding side saddle in jods. 
I do however, completely understand the safety aspect. I wonder if some one could come up with a top hat style helmet cover, similar to racing silks. Not as easy to achieve I'm sure, but must be possible.


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## MotherOfChickens (13 August 2016)

I'd like to see all equestrian sports overhauled wrt clothing-modernise it completely. 


Top level horse ball is a great spectator sport but it is tough on the horses. Ditto WE, of which I am a big fan-not sure either would open up the Olympics to currently less represented nations though.


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## ester (13 August 2016)

ribbons said:



			I'd hate to see the traditional dressage attire changed. It fits perfectly with the grace and harmony of the sport. I really think the helmets spoil the overall appearance, a bit like riding side saddle in jods. 
I do however, completely understand the safety aspect. I wonder if some one could come up with a top hat style helmet cover, similar to racing silks. Not as easy to achieve I'm sure, but must be possible.
		
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Been done, hasn't taken off
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/dressage/new-safety-top-hat-launched-for-dressage-riders-306866


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## DanceswithCows (13 August 2016)

I think there's no getting round the fact that, whatever we wear, horses are expensive, which is going to put them out of the reach of most nations and most people.  It was ever thus. (ETA - and if you don't have that kind of national passion and background/heritage, how far would your eally go, even if it was subsidised?) So, maybe there is a case for binning horse sport from the Olympics altogether.  At least then the dressage people are free to keep the historical attire and grace and all that in it's proper place.


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## ycbm (13 August 2016)

DanceswithCows said:



			I think there's no getting round the fact that, whatever we wear, horses are expensive, which is going to put them out of the reach of most nations and most people.  It was ever thus. (ETA - and if you don't have that kind of national passion and background/heritage, how far would your eally go, even if it was subsidised?) So, maybe there is a case for binning horse sport from the Olympics altogether.  At least then the dressage people are free to keep the historical attire and grace and all that in it's proper place.
		
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I've been musing since I first suggested this earlier on the thread. I've realised that a lot of my feeling that horse sport should be removed is because it is so unequal in opportunity. Any child who runs fast, pays football well, or has the potential to do any other Olympic sport at world class level can be spotted and nurtured.

This is not so of riding. Many people have the ability to grow into a world class rider. But to do that, at some stage they have to ride and win on a horse that allows them to demonstrate  that talent and stays sound. Very, very few riders will ever have that opportunity to showcase their talent, no matter how much potential they have.

It has to be the most unlevel playing field in the whole Olympics by a very long way, doesn't it?


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## ester (13 August 2016)

anything that requires a tool is a bit like that though. You don't find out if you are talented at riding without learning to ride, you don't find out that you are good at sailing, or rowing without access to boats etc. 
Obviously running and the sack race you find out fairly early on that you are pants . But I might have had some secret untapped kayaking talent


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## DanceswithCows (13 August 2016)

Genuinely interested - what will a sailing boat or a bike like wiggo's set you back?


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## DanceswithCows (13 August 2016)

I googled - Wiggins' bike was £10k...wasn't Totilas £15mil?  What's valegro worth? :/


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## tallyho! (13 August 2016)

teapot said:



			Because the basic essence of horse racing is about the fastest horse, not the fastest jockey. If you stopped someone in the street I bet you they could name National, Gold Cup or Derby winning horses much quicker than their jockeys.
		
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I don't know where you're coming from to be honest, it doesn't make sense to me. I see the equestrian sports now as the fastest/best horse, so I can't see any difference. Maybe because I come from a racing background, I don't know. It looks as if we see the world in different ways.


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## tallyho! (13 August 2016)

DanceswithCows said:



			I think there's no getting round the fact that, whatever we wear, horses are expensive, which is going to put them out of the reach of most nations and most people.  It was ever thus. (ETA - and if you don't have that kind of national passion and background/heritage, how far would your eally go, even if it was subsidised?) So, maybe there is a case for binning horse sport from the Olympics altogether.  At least then the dressage people are free to keep the historical attire and grace and all that in it's proper place.
		
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To add to your point, the Olympic event is so skewed anyway.

In the xc, the course was so hard, only 6 people finished within time - it's so geared towards to nations with the most behind eventing - UK, Aus, Germany, France and a couple of others that no one else really has a proper chance. Nothing else is that hard and that dangerous at the olympics. Lucky no animals or humans were killed in some of those combinations. 

I applaud our dressage team though - they are doing such a lot for the sport. Their horses are not tens of thousands of pounds from elite stock from Germany, they are what CH likes to call "ordinary" horses with talent. 

Still, not a level playing field - so I'm still not convinced equestrian sports should stay in the Olympics. It's too closed. The gap between rider skills are far too big.


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## ycbm (13 August 2016)

ester said:



			anything that requires a tool is a bit like that though. You don't find out if you are talented at riding without learning to ride, you don't find out that you are good at sailing, or rowing without access to boats etc. 
Obviously running and the sack race you find out fairly early on that you are pants . But I might have had some secret untapped kayaking talent 

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Yes, but a boat is a boat, and in fact I think the specification of the boat is the same for each competitor. And a friend of mine had a child who was able to get into the British training squad in a five hundred quid dinghy which never went lame and spoiled her chances.


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## ycbm (13 August 2016)

tallyho! said:



			I applaud our dressage team though - they are doing such a lot for the sport. Their horses are not tens of thousands of pounds from elite stock from Germany, they are what CH likes to call "ordinary" horses with talent. 

.
		
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Carl certainly does import elite bred young stock costing tens of thousands of pounds from the continent. I've seen him at a demo with one he imported as a two year old.


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## tallyho! (13 August 2016)

ycbm said:



			Carl certainly does import elite bred young stock costing tens of thousands of pounds from the continent. I've seen him at a demo with one he imported as a two year old.
		
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The point I was trying to make was that they don't rely on expensive horses or make a point of only training them from such stock.

Is that ok?


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## ester (13 August 2016)

What stock have they had which would be deemed 'ordinary'? I think they are all pretty expensive, they have to be fit for purpose. Valegro was never an ordinary horse, he always had a ridiculous back end. All but one horse currently on the yard is an imported warmblood from the continent.
Valegro doesn't have the stallion extra value of totilas, no future earning power. 

Good point about boats not going lame ycbm 

I'm not sure it is true that nothing else is that hard or dangerous in the olympics. If it wasn't hard you might as well just have a dressage competition. It is supposed to be for the best so I don't understand the concept of 'giving others a chance' unless you intend a handicap system for all sports?


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## Fraggle2 (13 August 2016)

I thought the inspiration behind the modern Olympics was to inspire youngsters into grass roots sports. There for getting the next generation out enjoying what ever sport they choose.


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## teapot (13 August 2016)

tallyho! said:



			I don't know where you're coming from to be honest, it doesn't make sense to me. I see the equestrian sports now as the fastest/best horse, so I can't see any difference. Maybe because I come from a racing background, I don't know. It looks as if we see the world in different ways. 

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My point was that in racing it's the horse that gets the accolade. In Olympic Equestrian events, it's the rider. Olympic sports are arguably about human talent, not an animal. Whereas in racing, it is about the animal. For example, Sprinter Sacre won the Queen Mother, Micheal Jung won the Rio 2016 Individual Eventing title.



			
				tallyho said:
			
		


			To add to your point, the Olympic event is so skewed anyway. In the xc, the course was so hard, only 6 people finished within time - it's so geared towards to nations with the most behind eventing - UK, Aus, Germany, France and a couple of others that no one else really has a proper chance. Nothing else is that hard and that dangerous at the olympics. Lucky no animals or humans were killed in some of those combinations.
		
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London was arguably a far easier xc course, yet there were more rider falls, more horse falls, more holds on course and fewer finishers. 70% of combinations completed the course at Rio. Make it too easy, riders lose respect, go too fast and that's when mistakes happen. Take Athens where the course was so small that Pippa Funnell had to anchor her horse so much he didn't tip up over something minor.

I suggest you go and read both Tina Cook's and Mark Phillips' columns on the H&H website, neither are scathing of the Rio xc course. In fact Tina goes as far to say that a course like that from Pierre Michelet should never have come as a surprise to anyone.


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## tallyho! (13 August 2016)

teapot said:



			My point was that in racing it's the horse that gets the accolade. In Olympic Equestrian events, it's the rider. Olympic sports are arguably about human talent, not an animal. Whereas in racing, it is about the animal. For example, Sprinter Sacre won the Queen Mother, Micheal Jung won the Rio 2016 Individual Eventing title.



London was arguably a far easier xc course, yet there were more rider falls, more horse falls, more holds on course and fewer finishers. 70% of combinations completed the course at Rio. Make it too easy, riders lose respect, go too fast and that's when mistakes happen. Take Athens where the course was so small that Pippa Funnell had to anchor her horse so much he didn't tip up over something minor.

I suggest you go and read both Tina Cook's and Mark Phillips' columns on the H&H website, neither are scathing of the Rio xc course. In fact Tina goes as far to say that a course like that from Pierre Michelet should never have come as a surprise to anyone.
		
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Righty-ho yes thank you I will go and read the H&H Bible - lest I be uneducated in the xc courses of the Olympics....


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## teapot (13 August 2016)

That's not what I was implying but if people are going to moan about Eventing being an Olympic sport, I'd wish the stats and figures they quote were put in a wider context. That 40% stat released by equi-ratings has potentially done more harm than good for the sport because stats in black and white are never good imho.


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