# Deformed Foal - your thoughts



## millimoo (22 June 2010)

Saw this on the Daily Mail site yesterday.
Have never in my life heard of this condition, seems such a shame.
He's obviously loved, and hope it has a happy outcome - although for me the jury's out :-/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...id-raise-4-000-operation-disfigured-foal.html

Anyone have any idea how remote his chances are???


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## taggs87 (23 June 2010)

i shouldnt see a problem, if he is suckling well thats a start. If he couldnt suckle then his chances would be very slim. 

It is cause by the disalignment of the mothers uterus, it causes a deviation of the rostral maxilla, it can cause difficulties in breathing and also neck problems.

If he manages to have the op then he should be fine! 

Hope that helps!


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## millimoo (23 June 2010)

thanks taggs87 - in all my years of horses i've learnt something new today


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## LynneB (23 June 2010)

what a wonderful attitude his little owner has too


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## Doncella (23 June 2010)

taggs87 said:



			i shouldnt see a problem, if he is suckling well thats a start. If he couldnt suckle then his chances would be very slim. 

It is cause by the disalignment of the mothers uterus, it causes a deviation of the rostral maxilla, it can cause difficulties in breathing and also neck problems.

If he manages to have the op then he should be fine! 

Hope that helps!
		
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Thank you I have learnt something as well and that it is possible to impart knowledge without being a doom monger.


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## Snickers (26 June 2010)

Poor little mite! I would probably have had him put to sleep, but if it's correctable through an operation, well done to them for trying!


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## Tinkerbee (27 June 2010)

If it was mine I would pts.

I don't have a problem with them wanting to operate, but for goodness sake, pay for it yourself!


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## walkingman (27 June 2010)

God you're a miserable cow.  No one's being forced to donate.


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## Puppy (27 June 2010)

Tinkerbee said:



			If it was mine I would pts.

I don't have a problem with them wanting to operate, but for goodness sake, pay for it yourself!
		
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I agree with Tinks!


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## PapaFrita (27 June 2010)

walkingman said:



			God you're a miserable cow.  No one's being forced to donate.
		
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I think the point Tinkerbee is trying to make is that if you have an animal with a condition that needs expensive treatment, you shouldn't make a decision in the hopes that _someone else_ will pay for it, not least because if that doesn't happen, then it's the animal that will suffer unfairly.
Personally I believe that if the horse can eat normally and have a decent standard of living _without_ the surgery, then it shouldn't be performed at all. If minor surgery will achieve the above then again, I'm all for it... BUT if several operations and a long period of recuperation are required then I would seriously consider PTS.
That said, it's my understanding that this is another example of stellar Daily Mail reporting and the facts are not as reported. There was another post about this elsewhere on the forum.

ps: I'm pretty sure a vet would not recommend PTS 'just because he looks different' as reported.


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## Tinkerbee (27 June 2010)

walkingman said:



			God you're a miserable cow.  No one's being forced to donate.
		
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LOL!

It is their animal, there responsibility if they want to prolong its life via expensive surgery. If they cannot afford it they should NOT be asking (not forcing...asking...) others to contribute. If my dog needed life saving surgery and I couldn't afford it I would have her pts, rather than set up a "save Tinkerdog" fundraising site.... 

Morals/ethics/ability to care for your own animals.... No?


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## skewby (27 June 2010)

LynneB said:



			what a wonderful attitude his little owner has too
		
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I see this quite differently, and am also quite shocked the Daily Mail reports it in the way it does!

I have no idea who the adults are but they are IDIOTS for not dealing with this immediately the foal was born and following the vet's advice.  They've further compounded it by getting the child attached to it and THEN gone to the papers??!!

I am horrified at this because, clearly, to me, once it gets bigger and is not cute any more and the kid doesn't want it and the parents sell it, what on Earth is going to happen to the sorry thing?  I just think it's awful and bizarrely something about this story upsets me more than other cases such as Jamie Gray (prepares to be shot but hey there it is).


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## flyingfeet (27 June 2010)

I am deeply divided about this - if it were my foal it would probably be a PTS case, as I would be worried about a 100% fix and that's a lot of money to spend on a horse that is potentially not going to be worth more than £2k (different case if you are insured, but they are not)

I don't think I'd be fund raising to ask others to pay for this sort of thing, as when there are so many fit healthy TB's going to the knackers yard, it seems slightly at odds to be saving this one over them. 

However that said its an emotional thing and you never know until you are in their shoes. I still think the DM reporting sucks though!!


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## TinselRider (27 June 2010)

Tinkerbee said:



			If it was mine I would pts.

I don't have a problem with them wanting to operate, but for goodness sake, pay for it yourself!
		
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I agree!!


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## kerilli (27 June 2010)

skewby said:



			I see this quite differently, and am also quite shocked the Daily Mail reports it in the way it does!

I have no idea who the adults are but they are IDIOTS for not dealing with this immediately the foal was born and following the vet's advice.  They've further compounded it by getting the child attached to it and THEN gone to the papers??!!

I am horrified at this because, clearly, to me, once it gets bigger and is not cute any more and the kid doesn't want it and the parents sell it, what on Earth is going to happen to the sorry thing?  I just think it's awful and bizarrely something about this story upsets me more than other cases such as Jamie Gray (prepares to be shot but hey there it is).
		
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Crikey. Words almost fail me.
Putting aside the DM's awful reporting, you are making a HUGE assumption, that the child will suddenly not want it when it's "not cute any more."
I hope they raise the money and the foal gets a chance.
To be more upset by this than by James Gray's utterly heinous disgusting cruelty and neglect of those horses is totally unfathomable.


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## brighteyes (27 June 2010)

Unfathomable indeed.  The owner has said if there is any indication of suffering and failure to thrive, the foal will be put down.  I'm sure she has its current welfare foremost, and will continue to do so.

Whether or not she should PTS - well, not for me to judge or dictate.  I'm syringe-feeding a guinea-pig which would surely die if I didn't. Until she stops grabbing the syringe from my hand and _demanding_ nourishment I will carry on.  She's a bag of bones and I've had her to the foremost expert on GP's in Britain, who has no idea either.  But she otherwise is bright and eats and drinks if I help her.  So I do.  When she wants 'out' I'll sort that, too.


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## Seahorse (27 June 2010)

If he's able to live a happy and pain fee life once he has this operation then why not? In a society that is very much about how someone looks it's refreshing that a little girl can love him no matter what he looks like.


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## kerilli (27 June 2010)

brighteyes, i'm right with you on that. currently hand-feeding a jackdaw who cannot (yet) feed itself. imho everything deserves a chance if someone is able to give it. it is a little life, therefore always worth the effort.


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## gnubee (27 June 2010)

If they want to try to save their foal as long as it has quality of life, I don't have any problem with that. If there was some kind of situation where people had responsibly bred a horse and then through a change in circumstances didn't have the spare funds available and wanted to try to save it through fundraising from the general public, I could probably justify that too.
(Although aside from a sudden change of circumstances, in the grand scheme of horse problems I dont rate £4000 as too much to expect a responsible person to have as an emergency fund, particularly if they are uninsured.)
What really winds me up about this though, is that "Mrs Biddlecombe keeps her horses in Southampton". There is not just this one horse; there are multiple horses, and before I expected other people to put their hands in their pockets to save my foal, I would make the hard choices that I needed to make including spending my horse emergency fund on it (see above), and selling one or more of my other horses to raise the funds. To expect other people to pay for your deformed foal when you have the means to do so yourself and make a choice not to just seems utterly unreasonable.


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## Decision_Tree (28 June 2010)

just a quick comment with regards to insurance - I think you cant insure a foal until its six months old and as this was a birth defect then there was no way of covering the vet bills as a result of.

My first horse was born with a slighty twisted front leg - recommended to PTS or let her grow to see if it self sorted - the leg straigtened with grown and she turned out just fine - I know not the same level of birth defect but it couldnt be covered under insurance as she was born with it. My horses brother also is under going extensive vet treatment - he wasnt covered by his insure as again was diagnosed before the six month mark.


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## PapaFrita (28 June 2010)

Ems207 said:



			just a quick comment with regards to insurance - I think you cant insure a foal until its six months old and as this was a birth defect then there was no way of covering the vet bills as a result of.
		
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Foals are covered until they are 6 months old by the mare's insurance.


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## EAST KENT (30 June 2010)

Now sixty years ago you`d have said it`s mother was frightened by a LLama...I think it is rather cute myself.Wonder what breed it is?


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## Kenzo (1 July 2010)

Reading that story just made me cry, poor little thing but obvioulsy very loved, not sure what I'd do in that situation though.


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## Megan_T (1 July 2010)

It's such a shame that these threads almost always descend into a "who's right or wrong" type conversation.. I've gone into three threads today, one after the other - and every single one had turned into a slanging match...

Anyway, sorry - back to the point in question. I think he's rather cute myself and I'm glad he's with someone who obviously loves and cares for him. I do hope, as she has said, that the owner would have him PTS should he start to suffer in any way. As for getting other people to pay for his op - well, I'm a bloody soft touch, so would probably donate a small amount, but then, that's just me 

I hope he goes on to live a healthy, happy life - even if he does look a little funny


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## FMM (1 July 2010)

I was more worried about a 6 year old child playing in a field with a fairly large foal! She'll be needing the £4k for repairing the child rather than the foal if that continues!


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## Megan_T (1 July 2010)

FMM said:



			I was more worried about a 6 year old child playing in a field with a fairly large foal! She'll be needing the £4k for repairing the child rather than the foal if that continues!
		
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Very true!


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## Scheherezade (1 July 2010)

I wonder what the people who are of the "pay for it yourself, don't ask for donations" make of children and adults who can't get surgery over here for various diseases and conditions, so have to raise money so they can get treatment in America?

Or, of charities in general. It seems this attitude leads to the "no help for the sick and needy", meaning we would be without the aid and research from charities like cancer UK, and the opportunities given by Banardo's, NSPCC etc.

Quite shocking, really.


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## gnubee (1 July 2010)

In your scenario of people needing medical help, I think firstly that if they can afford to do it themselves but would rather purchase other luxuries and have others pay for it then no, they shouldnt be asking for donations; and secondly I think its a bit different as your own life isnt really something like horse ownership that it is possible to avoid taking on until you are in a sufficiently secure financial position to sort yourself out.

On charities, I think they have professionals (or at least people less emotionally tied in) involved to evaluate the need in each given case, and in general I think most charities would follow the vets advice and PTS here, and spend the money on helping other horses where there are better odds of a positive future outcome. 
It isnt a case of no one should ever donate money to anything, but (IMO) there is much more good people can do with their money than this, and if you think your foal should get treatment in favour of of other horses in need just because you let your child get attached to it then you should be funding that yourself, not attracting donations away from charities or other more useful causes.

ETA If it was mine and I knew I could keep it for life I would probably try the op, but only if I could afford to fund it myself.


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## Daisychain (1 July 2010)

Personally i think this is a bit of a special case, he is obviously only going to be a family pet, it is a sentimental story and from the outside in looks like a happy chappy with everything going against him, but despite the odds so far he is growing and thriving!!

I wouldnt have a problem donating to this fella, he obviously is going to have home for life with these people and i value the descision that they are happy to do that, as many would not.  

Everything should have a chance, and if it means helping out then so be it.  I also regularly donate to charities and things worse off than me.

Maybe she should pay for it herself, but the fact she is willing to give it a life at all is comendable in its own right, hence why i would happily give a donation.


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## rosie fronfelen (1 July 2010)

gnubee said:



			In your scenario of people needing medical help, I think firstly that if they can afford to do it themselves but would rather purchase other luxuries and have others pay for it then no, they shouldnt be asking for donations; and secondly I think its a bit different as your own life isnt really something like horse ownership that it is possible to avoid taking on until you are in a sufficiently secure financial position to sort yourself out.

On charities, I think they have professionals (or at least people less emotionally tied in) involved to evaluate the need in each given case, and in general I think most charities would follow the vets advice and PTS here, and spend the money on helping other horses where there are better odds of a positive future outcome. 
It isnt a case of no one should ever donate money to anything, but (IMO) there is much more good people can do with their money than this, and if you think your foal should get treatment in favour of of other horses in need just because you let your child get attached to it then you should be funding that yourself, not attracting donations away from charities or other more useful causes.

ETA If it was mine and I knew I could keep it for life I would probably try the op, but only if I could afford to fund it myself.
		
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where in the article were they asking for donations?


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## SpruceRI (1 July 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			where in the article were they asking for donations?
		
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In a roundabout way, here: "A six-year-old girl is hoping to raise thousands of pounds for an operation on her beloved foal after he was born with a rare condition which left his face disfigured."

There's no way a 6yr old girl is going to earn the money is there?  Further down it says her mother is hoping to raise the money but the above comment suggests not from her savings/job.

Good luck to them.... someone will assist them I'm sure


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## rosie fronfelen (3 July 2010)

too many assumptions on these threads i think.good luck to them-


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## marmalade76 (3 July 2010)

Puppy said:



			I agree with Tinks! 

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Same here.


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## Alec Swan (3 July 2010)

gnubee,

your final paragraph just about summed up the situation,  in my view.

This poor child has now been allowed to become deeply attached to the foal.  She has most probably been promised that,  with fund raising,  the foal may well be "saved".  Saved for and from what?  Were the foal put to sleep now,  the child will,  doubtless be deeply distressed.  To keep the foal alive should be equally distressing for those who witness it on a daily basis.  The situation is now out of hand,  sadly for the foal,   I suspect that being saved is the only option.

If this foal manages to exist without major assistance,  possibly for the rest of its life,  then I will be amazed.  Just what quality of life is that?  It's far more about the owners than the foal,  the poor little mite.

Neither the well being of the foal, and of equal importance,  that of the child,  been thought through.  I'm sorry to say this,  but I think the whole situation is disgraceful.

Alec.


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## Racergirl (4 July 2010)

Gosh - what a lot of assumptions and conclusion jumping from people who have no idea what the story is other than what the Daily Mail say it is....(and they are so reliable....)

I cant say too much about this, as I am involved with this case, but Id like to clear up a couple of things that have been mentioned on here and latched on to.

At NO TIME have the family asked for donations - in fact, after one newspaper saw fit to publish the owners mobile phone number and she was inundated with calls offering help, she has thanked everyone and turned them all down. It was never the case that she wanted money  to pay for the operations that he may need - that is the newspapers twisting what has been said by the people who were contacted for advice. This whole situation has been blown up out of all proportion. It started with a thread on a local forum purely asking for anyone with experience of the condition to contact them, this got picked up by a local paper who asked to run a story to help them find out more (hence they got the photos), and this story got picked up by the red tops, and produced in that wonderful way tabloids have to get attention... the owner never asked for the kind or type of exposure its generated. All she has ever wanted was to find out about peoples eperiences to be able to know if having a try could be an option. (something that Im sure most horse owners would want to know rather than jumping straight onto putting down an otherwise healthy foal)

The children are all well aware of how serious the condition is,and that he may well have to be put down. The reason he hasnt been put down yet is that there are operations which would possibly give the foal a good chance, and the owner (understandably) wanted to find out as much as possible before she made the decision.He is a very very loved chap - and having met him, its easy to fall for him. One thing he definately wont lack is love and care from a family that want to do their utmost to do their best for him.

 oh - and one more thing (havent spotted it here,but have on other forums) she didnt buy the mare and put her in foal - she bought the mare as a riding horse, nobody knew she was in foal at all,even the stud she was bought from !!! There are other things that have been happening,which im not going to go into - but the whole thing has snowballed to such an extent that the family are damned if the do and damned if they dont,and Its hard to know what to do for the best.

At the end of the day - an owner has to do what they think is best for their animal,whatever that may be and including second opinions and other areas where needed. All this owner has tried to do is arm herself with the best possible advice (from across the world!) so that she can make an informed decision on what to do. Its very easy to be on the outside of a situation and make judgements - but in reality, its nothing to do with anyone other than the owner - and whatever they decide is their business!!


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## Daisychain (4 July 2010)

Racergirl said:



			Gosh - what a lot of assumptions and conclusion jumping from people who have no idea what the story is other than what the Daily Mail say it is....(and they are so reliable....)

I cant say too much about this, as I am involved with this case, but Id like to clear up a couple of things that have been mentioned on here and latched on to.


At the end of the day - an owner has to do what they think is best for their animal,whatever that may be and including second opinions and other areas where needed. All this owner has tried to do is arm herself with the best possible advice (from across the world!) so that she can make an informed decision on what to do. Its very easy to be on the outside of a situation and make judgements - but in reality, its nothing to do with anyone other than the owner - and whatever they decide is their business!!
		
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Absolutely, agree with you, people should mind their own business, get their facts right and not rely on 2nd hand information!  I wish them all the best with whatever they decide to do.


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## micramadam (4 July 2010)

At the end of the day - an owner has to do what they think is best for their animal,whatever that may be and including second opinions and other areas where needed. All this owner has tried to do is arm herself with the best possible advice (from across the world!) so that she can make an informed decision on what to do. Its very easy to be on the outside of a situation and make judgements - but in reality, its nothing to do with anyone other than the owner - and whatever they decide is their business!![/QUOTE]


Well said and one in the eye for all those who instead of offering support reacted otherwise. There are always 2 sides to every story. 
I hope she finds out what she needs to know to be able to make a decision. Regardless of that decision I hope that you will let her know that there are decent people in this world who do understand what she is trying to do and will support her whatever has to be done.


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## SusieT (4 July 2010)

For all those condemning these owners-there is a not dissimilar post in breeding regarding a foal that is not normally conformed but has a chance at being so (see 411 days gestation post).. everyone on that post is giving it their full support.
As for the begging for money-they're not forcing anyone to give them money at the end of the day.


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## Sanolly (4 July 2010)

madhossy said:



			In a roundabout way, here: "A six-year-old girl is hoping to raise thousands of pounds for an operation on her beloved foal after he was born with a rare condition which left his face disfigured."

There's no way a 6yr old girl is going to earn the money is there?  Further down it says her mother is hoping to raise the money but the above comment suggests not from her savings/job.

Good luck to them.... someone will assist them I'm sure
		
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So how do we know that she won't be doing boot sales, sponsored ride/walk/silence, selling cakes and homemade lemonade etc? The little girl could get paid to fill haynets etc.There are many ways of raising money without using your savings or asking for donations. 

I say good on them for trying to help this foal. If he was suckling then by all means he should have been PTS but he is and I think he deserves a chance.


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## millimoo (5 July 2010)

Thanks Racegirl - I only originally posted as I've never heard of the condition..... and i've been around horses for 30 years, must admit I was quite shocked at the bluntness of some of the responses (part of me wishes I'd not posted).
Anyhoo, I really hope he has a successful Operation and all ends well........


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## typekitty (6 July 2010)

I had never heard of this condition either. I looked it up on Google and found this

http://www.beautysequinerescue.org/Aaleyah.htm

Photos of before and after surgery. I didn't read all the text (late enough for work as it is!) but the photos looked promising.


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## Tinseltoes (6 July 2010)

Awww that foal is sooo cute.Cant say I was too happt with the 1st comment-what a moron to be so mean.
I hope they raise enough money.


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