# Horse damaged my car- HELP/ADVICE



## EquestrianFairy (11 May 2011)

Yesterday a guy up my yard tied his horse up close to my car and the horse has booted the side of my car making considerable damage.
The guy has refused to pay and does not have insurance for his horse- the owner of the yard does not have public liability insurance.

Am i stuck paying for this myself via my own insurance?!


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## posie_honey (11 May 2011)

he blooming well should pay! that's awful! and YO should demand everyone has public liability at least!

but afraid i'm not sure you'll pursuade him 

my horse kicked my own car and smashed the headlight and wing - wasn't daft to fix outwith insurance - worth talking to beakers yards tc


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## Amymay (11 May 2011)

Small claims court, I would imagine.

I expect you'd have to report it to the police as well for an incident number (???)

And the guy presumably has car insurance - which is how he'd pay.


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## EquestrianFairy (11 May 2011)

I rang the police- they said that horses actions are classed as an 'Act of God' and that if my horse had done it to someone elses car it would be the same.. however i did tell the unhelpful policeman that i have insurance on my horse for that exact reason.

Basically the police state there is nothing they can do.

The guy has no horse insurance qnd doesnt own a car, the YO isnt interested at all.


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## Amymay (11 May 2011)

EquestrianFairy said:



			I rang the police- they said that horses actions are classed as an 'Act of God' and that if my horse had done it to someone elses car it would be the same.. however i did tell the unhelpful policeman that i have insurance on my horse for that exact reason.

Basically the police state there is nothing they can do.

The guy has no horse insurance qnd doesnt own a car, the YO isnt interested at all.
		
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Have you reported the incident to your insurance company?  You will need to provide the man's name and address, and then they will chase him.


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## EquestrianFairy (11 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Have you reported the incident to your insurance company?  You will need to provide the man's name and address, and then they will chase him.
		
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Yes i have, unfortunately i only know the mans first name as he would not give me his surname or his address and the YO wont get involed.
The insurance have said they will continue with the repairs but im going to have to pay my excess as unless they can trace him they cannot claim from him.


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## Amymay (11 May 2011)

EquestrianFairy said:



			Yes i have, unfortunately i only know the mans first name as he would not give me his surname or his address and the YO wont get involed.
The insurance have said they will continue with the repairs but im going to have to pay my excess as unless they can trace him they cannot claim from him.
		
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Your YO has to get involved - or your insurance company can start chasing him..............


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## lea840 (11 May 2011)

I would seek some advice on this... you shouldn't be left out of pocket to pay for this. 

Surely they are negligent for failing to control their horse properly and it being allowed to kick the car because it was tied up so close to it??? (I'm not saying they could of stopped the horse kicking, but they should of tied it up in a safer enviroment other than next to a car were it could cause damage)

Deffo worth getting some advice on... small claims maybe...


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## Stinkbomb (11 May 2011)

EquestrianFairy said:



			I rang the police- they said that horses actions are classed as an 'Act of God' and that if my horse had done it to someone elses car it would be the same.. however i did tell the unhelpful policeman that i have insurance on my horse for that exact reason.

Basically the police state there is nothing they can do.

The guy has no horse insurance qnd doesnt own a car, the YO isnt interested at all.
		
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There is really nothing the police can do. Its not classed as a road traffic accident as the vehicle is not on a road, it was not deliberate damage so its not criminal damage. It would be just put down to "accidental" damage. It would have to be pursued through the civil courts im affraid.


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## flyingfeet (11 May 2011)

Horses are not act of god 

If your horse escapes onto the road you are liable, and if you horse does damage you are liable 

Therefore get the details from YO - if they won't supply them, then say you'll have to take the claim against them as they have insurance 

Everyone should have 3rd party insurance for their horse, as stupid not to


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## Amymay (11 May 2011)

Actually, just as an aside OP - was your car parked on the stable yard??

I only ask as where I used to stable there was a very separate area for cars - however, in one of the blocks there was a small courtyard where the odd car would park.  Meaning that if an owner tied their horse outside of the stable there was the potential to damage the car.  I had a horse stabled in this courtyard, and my view was that if she damaged car, tough luck (because they took the risk to park it in a stable courtyard, when other safer parking was available).

Not sure if your set up is similar.......


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## EquestrianFairy (11 May 2011)

Stinkbomb said:



			There is really nothing the police can do. Its not classed as a road traffic accident as the vehicle is not on a road, it was not deliberate damage so its not criminal damage. It would be just put down to "accidental" damage. It would have to be pursued through the civil courts im affraid.
		
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Im guessing to do this i need his full name and address?

His attitude stank- couldnt have cared less and even walked away leaving his horses arse against my car! To say i was angry would have been an understatement- i thik the whole yard heard how anygry i was..People total lack of respect for other peoples things continues to beggar belife. I paid good money for my car, i worked hard for it and he basically stood there sticking two fingers up at me.


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## EquestrianFairy (11 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Actually, just as an aside OP - was your car parked on the stable yard??

I only ask as where I used to stable there was a very separate area for cars - however, in one of the blocks there was a small courtyard where the odd car would park.  Meaning that if an owner tied their horse outside of the stable there was the potential to damage the car.  I had a horse stabled in this courtyard, and my view was that if she damaged car, tough luck (because they took the risk to park it in a stable courtyard, when other safer parking was available).

Not sure if your set up is similar.......
		
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The car park is on the yard- that is the car parking area and generally people dont have issues as the stables arent particularly close to the cars, however i was parked first and he chose (for some random reason!) to tie his horse up next to my car unfortnatlety i was in the hay barn filling a haynet so i:

1) didnt know hed put his horse next to my car and
2) didnt know it had kicked it until i saw a girl standing there with her mouth open staring at it.. and 
3) after the horse kicked it he didnt even move the horse!!!!


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## Amymay (11 May 2011)

EquestrianFairy said:



			The car park is on the yard, however i was parked first and he chose (for some random reason!) to tie his horse up next to my car unfortnatlety i was in the hay barn filling a haynet so i:

1) didnt know hed put his horse next to my car and
2) didnt know it had kicked it until i saw a girl standing there with her mouth open staring at it.. and 
3) after the horse kicked it he didnt even move the horse!!!!
		
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Ah right.

Well, get your insurance to contact the YO asking for the details of this person so that they can begin proceedings against him.

Good luck.


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## Flummoxed (11 May 2011)

Good luck. 

And your YO is an idiot if he really does not have Public Liability cover!


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## mrogers (11 May 2011)

i thought it was against the law to run a yard as a business without insurance ???


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## Flummoxed (11 May 2011)

It's not illegal, but it is extremely foolhardy.


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## indie999 (11 May 2011)

Start looking for a new yard too! If the Yard owner has that attitude it would worry me if you or your horse got injured too. They should have liability. BHS provide it for £59 per year for as many horses as you own etc(private owners etc)

Move too.


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## EquestrianFairy (11 May 2011)

Without making my yard sound like a ****hole.. its basically an old farm where people have horses and 'make use' of facilities as best they can if that makes sense?

I moved there because being in Uni meant it was cheaper, ive been there before and generally its ok, you make what you want of it and its not bitchy or expensive in most senses but at times like this is does make me realise why being at a proper livery yard pays :-(


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## soulfull (11 May 2011)

I think you would be best just to leave it up to your car insurance,  they will do as much or as little as they want to find the guy.

saves you all the hassle too


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## Perissa (11 May 2011)

Wouldn't it be a shame if you were to accidentally trip near his car while carrying a metal shovel.........


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## miss_bird (11 May 2011)

I would pass the YO details onto the insurance company and let them decie what to do from their.
That way you have given the insurance comapny all the details you have and it is up to them to trace/deal with payment.
HOpe you get something sorted as unexpected payouts like thais can really unsettle the monthly money


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## Naryafluffy (11 May 2011)

Perissa said:



			Wouldn't it be a shame if you were to accidentally trip near his car while carrying a metal shovel.........
		
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Or if the farriers nails accidently went underneath his tyres, we've got a couple of dogs on our yard who think it's great fun to jump on the bonnets of cars at the windscreen and then slide down of the front, if you want you can borrow them for a couple of days (although can't guarantee they would pick the correct car to jump on).


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## ladyt25 (11 May 2011)

Why on earth is it not stipulated that every livery on that yard has liability insurance? That is a noremal requirement for keeping your horse on a yard surely? Is this a yard you stable your horse on - I assume so? I think you should demand his full name and address and advise you shall be contacting your solicitor. If the guy has some home/contents insurance it is quite likely that the liability would extend to cover his horse.

Failing that then I would suggest to the yard owner that, as they are uncooperative and are not giving you his full details that you shall be submitting the claim against them as livery yard owner and I would requets their insurance details - they should not withold them from you. If they again won't give you their details then your insurance company will have to pursue them.

If the man whose horse it was does not have insurance to cover his horse than I think small claims would be the option and he would have to pay for the damage out of his own pocket! I am unsure whether the insurance company will pursue them through court - they may do to recover their losses.


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## Noseyparker (11 May 2011)

what an ar*se of a man he sounds.

I would have him followed to see where he lives!! I would be doing everything to make sure he dosent get away with it. 

The thing is your going to be out of pocket severley, as unless you have NCP your going to have your insurance hiked up when its up for renewel putting a claim in, and of course theres the excess to pay. 

If he dosent have a car, he must live locally then, unless he gets a lift to the yard? if he is skint, theres not alot they can do money wise, unless they send baliffs in after a court order, even then if he knows the loop holes they cannot gain access ! He would probabley end up slapped with a CCJ. Does your car insurance have legal cover? if it has just give the details of what happens and let them do the rest, thats would you pay the excess of the service for Good Luck, I hope they get the git!


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## CeeBee (11 May 2011)

Just to throw a spanner in the works - did you, or anyone else actually see the horse kick your car? I know you said a girl from the yard was shocked, looking at it, but did she actually see the horse do it? If not, could be your word against his


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## AndySpooner (11 May 2011)

I think that to pursue this will waste your time and money.

I'd forget it.


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## OWLIE185 (11 May 2011)

A recent legal case demonstrated that each and every horse owner should have third party public liability insurance of no less than £10,000,000 for each of their horses.

If you can demonstrate that it was his horse that damaged your car then I would simply take out a small claim against him in the county court once you have found out where he lives.  You can do this easily on line.


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## ossy (11 May 2011)

I can see this from both sides really, my old horse did something similar and reversed into the YO's car and made a massive dent on it the difference was I wasn't actually there as another girl was riding him that weekend.  The YO is a friend of mine so was never any bad feeling about it and we laugh about it now but even with insurance companies from all sides invloved it was the YO's car insurance that paid for it.  

I would be so annoyed with this guys attitude too but its really up to your insuracne company to what they want to do, give them all the contact inforamtion you can and leave it with them, that's what they're there for.  In the contract for my current yard there is a statement saying the car park is provided for us to use but property is left at our own risk.  These things happen with horses its just the nature of keeping such big unprodictable animals, its just his attitude stinks, what a nice guy he must be


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## Hippona (11 May 2011)

Jen_Cots said:



			Horses are not act of god 

If your horse escapes onto the road you are liable, and if you horse does damage you are liable 

Therefore get the details from YO - if they won't supply them, then say you'll have to take the claim against them as they have insurance 

Everyone should have 3rd party insurance for their horse, as stupid not to
		
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^^^^
This. 
Are you a member of the BHS? They should be able to give you proper equine legal advice.


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## Natch (11 May 2011)

What about a white lie to the YO saying that if they don't give you the man's full name and address then you will have no choice but to pursue the YO instead?

Someone on the yard must know his surname, surely? How does he get to the yard? Given his arsey attitude I'd follow him home to get his address.


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## Archangel (11 May 2011)

It is all very well for the yard owner to say they don't want to get involved but they are already involved due to the fact that they let their premises out for livery purposes and receive money in return. Or is the livery money all undeclared?  Oh dear, they won't want offical letters flying about will they? *rubs chin* 

The guy is bang out of order, he would be on my stalking rota pronto.


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## Toby_Zaphod (11 May 2011)

EquestrianFairy said:



			I rang the police- they said that horses actions are classed as an 'Act of God' and that if my horse had done it to someone elses car it would be the same.. however i did tell the unhelpful policeman that i have insurance on my horse for that exact reason.

Basically the police state there is nothing they can do.

The guy has no horse insurance qnd doesnt own a car, the YO isnt interested at all.
		
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This is a typical response that a police officer may give when he doesn't know the answer & can't be bothered to find out & give the correct advice. The answer he gave is total pants!.
It is true that the police would not get involved in this matter as it is not covered by the Road Traffic Act or indeed any other criminal law & that is the law they deal with. It is a matter that could be dealt with by a civil court & from what you are saying it will probably have to be if the horse's owner has no insurance & is not prepared to pay up. Additionally the YO appears to be an idiot to run a yard without any public liability insurance. The horse's owner is liable for his horse's actions. Get his details from the YO & then speak to a solicitor or Citizens Advice Bureau regarding your next step. Your next step would probably be the Small Claims Court, you can do this yourself & you can get all the details you would need from the internet & the cost is minimal....honest.

Good Luck, don't let him get away with it!!!!!


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## Amymay (11 May 2011)

Naturally said:



			What about a white lie to the YO saying that if they don't give you the man's full name and address then you will have no choice but to pursue the YO instead?
		
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Not necessarily a white lie, as insurance company may well do that.


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## TheEquineOak (11 May 2011)

RebelRebel said:



			It is all very well for the yard owner to say they don't want to get involved but they are already involved due to the fact that they let their premises out for livery purposes and receive money in return. Or is the livery money all undeclared?  Oh dear, they won't want offical letters flying about will they? *rubs chin* 

The guy is bang out of order, he would be on my stalking rota pronto.
		
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My thoughts exactly!!!

If this place is opperating as a livery yard I was under the impression that it MUST have liability insurance of some sort and, as above, if they are not paying their taxes on the money you're paying them I'm sure you could tactfully mentioned in a passing sentence about some lawful person getting involved....


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## Ranyhyn (11 May 2011)

^^ Iiiinteresting!!  I had no idea it wasn't a proper yard, you have them by the short and curlies there hopefully


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## fatpiggy (11 May 2011)

I'd be very surprised if a farm didn't have public liability insurance TBH.  If they don't though and are running a business from it (the liveries) then I think the powers-that-be might be interested in that.  I'm afraid it seems to be a typical attitude by farmers though. I keep my old girl in the same position and we just get told to "sort it out amongst yourselves".  Would be nice if it was that easy!  They just want to take the rent money and do as little as possible for it


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## Chestnut mare (11 May 2011)

I'm afraid the same think happened to me.
I had my car parked at the yard where I kept my horse. I went out hacking. Came back and 1 of the liveries had tied her horse up behind where my car was parked and was grooming it. I put my horse back out and was standing talking to the other pony owner! All of a sudden her horse collapsed . It landed on the back on my car and got stuck we had to roll the car forward. The owner said to me how sorry she was and not to worry the horse is fully insured. I said we will sort it out later. The horse unfortunatly did not get back up and the vet was called to PTS. I left it a couple of weeks (didn't want to be insensitive as the poor girl had lost her horse but my car was damaged). She said it was in the hands of her insurance company. I had also reported it to my insurance company! 
Anyway, it turns out although te horse was insured as my car was parked on private property (the yard) it's parked at my own risk and no way can the horse be held responsible! They also said horses are unpredictable and have their own minds!
Hope u get a better outcome than me.


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## ladyt25 (11 May 2011)

Chestnut mare said:



			I'm afraid the same think happened to me.
I had my car parked at the yard where I kept my horse. I went out hacking. Came back and 1 of the liveries had tied her horse up behind where my car was parked and was grooming it. I put my horse back out and was standing talking to the other pony owner! All of a sudden her horse collapsed . It landed on the back on my car and got stuck we had to roll the car forward. The owner said to me how sorry she was and not to worry the horse is fully insured. I said we will sort it out later. The horse unfortunatly did not get back up and the vet was called to PTS. I left it a couple of weeks (didn't want to be insensitive as the poor girl had lost her horse but my car was damaged). She said it was in the hands of her insurance company. I had also reported it to my insurance company! 
Anyway, it turns out although te horse was insured as my car was parked on private property (the yard) it's parked at my own risk and no way can the horse be held responsible! They also said horses are unpredictable and have their own minds!
Hope u get a better outcome than me.
		
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God, which insurer was that??

Any self-respecting horse insurer would have admitted liabilityin those sorts of circumstances seeing as the horse damaged 3rd party property due to it's actions (seemingly it wasn't in control of it's actions but that's by the by). I have never heard of an exclusion due to it being on private property. IF that horse had kicked a person who walked past it (or god forbid collapsed on another person) then you could bet that the insurance company who insured the horse would be held liable then, private property or not!


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## EquestrianFairy (11 May 2011)

Chestnut mare said:



			Anyway, it turns out although te horse was insured as my car was parked on private property (the yard) it's parked at my own risk and no way can the horse be held responsible! They also said horses are unpredictable and have their own minds!
Hope u get a better outcome than me.
		
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This is basically what the policeman said to me.. private land etc etc.

Ive told my insurance company everything i could about the guy, people know his surname but noone will tell me it- its like a big conspirsy (sp?) and people are just saying they wont get involved. Im assuming he has a lift up there as this was the second time ive ever seen him and im up faily regular throughout the week (I have a sharer who does certain days) 

Yes its one of 'those' yards which are not really a livery yard, just a farm where horses are kept im sure its not labled as a business etc


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## Spyda (11 May 2011)

Chestnut mare said:



			.....Anyway, it turns out although te horse was insured as my car was parked on private property (the yard) it's parked at my own risk and no way can the horse be held responsible! They also said horses are unpredictable and have their own minds!
		
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 WTF? Is this true???? Or just an insurance company trying to wriggle out of paying up? 

I was struck in a traffic jam along Wembley High Road one morning - literally stationary, with cars a mile infront and a mile behind me, when a Mini waiting to pull out across the road to my left suddenly jerked out in the road at speed and smashed straight into the front of my _stationary_ car. Neither car was left driveable; Her car was a right off, and the front wing of mine was caved in around the wheel arch, rubbing against the tyre. To cut a long story short, her insurance company later sent me a letter agreeing to settle HALF of my repair costs because, and I quote, "....whilst our client was at fault, had you not been positioned in the road as you were, they would not have had cause to hit you and therefore you are 50% responsible for the accident occuring." Duh?! Since then, NOTHING would surprise me in what an insurance company will come up with the get out of settling a claim. 

Would be interesting to know if what's been said is actually true though. Makes me wonder if I shouldn't be better parking my car out on the road, rather than in the yard's car park?

OP: If the guy is a livery at your yard, surely someone there will know his surname and whereabouts he lives? And if he doesn't drive, how does he get to the yard? Someone at your yard MUST know something and it's pretty poor show if they're all keeping shtum at your expense. I'd remind them how they might feel in your position if it happens to one of _their _cars. Hope you can get it sorted.


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## Spyda (11 May 2011)

EquestrianFairy said:



			Ive told my insurance company everything i could about the guy, people know his surname but noone will tell me it- its like a big conspirsy (sp?) and people are just saying they wont get involved. Im assuming he has a lift up there as this was the second time ive ever seen him and im up faily regular throughout the week (I have a sharer who does certain days)
		
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I'd definitely pass the yard owners name, address and phone number to your insurance company if you haven't already done so. Perhaps a formal letter from them will pursuade the YO to 'get involved'. Jeeze, the other people's attutude stinks - and I don't just mean the guy who's horse kicked your car. Everyone there who wont help you get this sorted. It's not complicated after all. His horse did the damage, and you need to claim. Why's everyone being cagey? Is this guy some sort of Mafia?


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## EquestrianFairy (11 May 2011)

Spyda said:



			I'd definitely pass the yard owners name, address and phone number to your insurance company if you haven't already done so. Perhaps a formal letter from them will pursuade the YO to 'get involved'. Jeeze, the other people's attutude stinks - and I don't just mean the guy who's horse kicked your car. Everyone there who wont help you get this sorted. It's not complicated after all. His horse did the damage, and you need to claim. Why's everyone being cagey? Is this guy some sort of Mafia?
		
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Thats exactly what ive done now- passed on the YO details and address to my insurer so they can chase them and hopefully then they will end up chasing the guy.

The policeman said to me i was better off parking my car on a road- at least i would have a case! Helpful! not!


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## Chestnut mare (12 May 2011)

Unfortunately it's true. It just goes to show how people change when money is involved. If it was me I would of offered a token amount towards the repair if my pony damaged a friends car. It was just an awkward situation as the horse died I suppose but insurance companies do get out of paying wherever they can


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## Spottyappy (12 May 2011)

Good luck. Years ago, a girl had tied her horse to a rail instead of a tie ring. The horse broke loose, taking the rail with it. Flew round the car park and the rail unfortunately smashed into my car badly damaging the paint work. The horse was unhurt. The owner admitted liability as the horse hadn;t been tied to the proper place provided. She was insured but her insurance company  refused to pay "unless I could get the horse to admit liability"


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## Ranyhyn (12 May 2011)

A horse can't admit liability for anything lol so whats the point of insuring it!!


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## Spottyappy (12 May 2011)

I did suggest the owner wrote on a piece of paper " I admit I am liable for smahing the rail into the car" and stamped it with his hoof, but the insurance said it would be invalid!


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## Mike007 (12 May 2011)

I dont think you are going to win this one. It is a horse yard,therefore there are horses and they do do this sort of thing. You put your car in an area frequented by horses as part of the day to day running of the place. That was your choice and your acceptance of the risk. Apart from a few exceptions we all have to insure against our own risks if we wish insurance cover..(motoring is one of the few exceptions and because it is the most common insurance,people think this is the rule rather than the exception)You would have to prove negligence to stand any chance against the horse owner.I do realise that there is now a no fault liability(after a high court ruling) ,if for example a horse escapes ,but the horse was where it should be and I doubt very much if this could be applied. The yard owner is in a slightly more difficult position because they have allowed you on the premises and have possibly failed to adequately assess the risks involved in having a parking area together with a horse area.The question is who amongst you all has failed in their duty of care. My guess is all of you .


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## Ranyhyn (12 May 2011)

Case adjourned.


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## Amaranta (12 May 2011)

mrogers said:



			i thought it was against the law to run a yard as a business without insurance ???
		
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Me too!   I would be advising the YO of this, it may just galvanise him into giving you the guys details!


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## Mike007 (12 May 2011)

Amaranta said:



			Me too!   I would be advising the YO of this, it may just galvanise him into giving you the guys details!
		
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Employers liability is the only one you must have by law.


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## dozzie (12 May 2011)

Is it that bad that it needs repairing? Cant you get someone to "push" it back... with a hammer? Or go to the scrappy and get a new door?


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## Amaranta (12 May 2011)

Mike007 said:



			Employers liability is the only one you must have by law.
		
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Blimey, you learn something new everyday!  I just assumed that he would have to have it as he was running a business.


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## JenniferS (12 May 2011)

A dog ran infront of my mum's car around 10 years ago when a girl didn't have the dog on the lead and it just ran out from nowhere.  The dog was fine and the girl just ran away, but the front of the car was smashed in.  There was nothing that could be done and my mum & dad just had to claim it on their insurance.


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## Kaylum (12 May 2011)

Get an estimate for the damage first of all.  

Then give him the estimate with a letter saying this can be paid in cash by hiim or you can involve insurance companies (whether he has insurance or not is not an issue here as thats his problem).   

Get everything in writing give it to him. The ball is in his court, also say you have informed your insurance company of a possible claim coming through.


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## Tnavas (13 May 2011)

Spyda said:



 WTF? Is this true???? Or just an insurance company trying to wriggle out of paying up? 

I was struck in a traffic jam along Wembley High Road one morning - literally stationary, with cars a mile infront and a mile behind me, when a Mini waiting to pull out across the road to my left suddenly jerked out in the road at speed and smashed straight into the front of my _stationary_ car. Neither car was left driveable; Her car was a right off, and the front wing of mine was caved in around the wheel arch, rubbing against the tyre. To cut a long story short, her insurance company later sent me a letter agreeing to settle HALF of my repair costs because, and I quote, "....whilst our client was at fault, had you not been positioned in the road as you were, they would not have had cause to hit you and therefore you are 50% responsible for the accident occuring." Duh?! Since then, NOTHING would surprise me in what an insurance company will come up with the get out of settling a claim.
		
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Unless the law has changed since I was last in UK - when stuck in queued traffic you mustn't block the access/exit of roads. If you were stationery accross the front of a street junction then you are partly liable for the damage - if you hadn't been there the mini would not have hit you.


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## Miss L Toe (13 May 2011)

All DIY yards I have been on insist on Public liability for this reason.
Re police action, if it happened on private land it may not concern them as it is not illegal to keep a horse uninsured.
Re yard owner, did you go in all guns blazing?.. they are in business and almost all businesses have some sort of insurance, just as almost all householders have. 
I don't see that you are going to get anywhere with this to be fair, but people should be prepared to give you their address. 
I park my car in the car park, not in a horse area, but I have seen people parking right next to the mounting block just to save them walking from the overflow car park, I have a young horse and most people round here are not dyed in the wool horsemen, they expect the ponies to work out what is required and never misbehave.... any horse excitement is viewed as an "incident", I am used to lively TB's and don't mix it with cars.


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## Ditchjumper2 (13 May 2011)

As I understand it:
1. Horse owner is liable for damages as under the Animals Act strict liability applies whether there is negligence or not by horse owner
2. If the cost of your repairs is significant the Ins Co will want to recover their outlay.  The can appoint in house investigator to obtain details of the third party and take him to court. Even if he has no insurance he can still pay     x amount a week.
3. If amount of repairs is not high it is often not economically viable as cost of pursuing TP may exceed amount of repairs.
4. Unless you have uninsured loss cover they will not get your excess back - that is down to you.


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## Ditchjumper2 (13 May 2011)

Forgot to add that without any independant witness evidence they are unlikely to take the matter to extremes as it is one persons word against another.

Sorry.


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## Keltic (13 May 2011)

A horse reared up and fell backwards on my new car and did a few thousand pounds worth of  damage, the owner said straight away that she would pay even if her insurance wouldnt. She was insured with the NFU who refused to pay as they said the accident couldnt be predicted. The owner refused to pay and said she hadnt admitted liability and was really stroppy over it and our YO wouldnt get involved at all. Numerous letters via a solicitor etc using the Animals Act made no difference and my insurance had to pay, so I lost my no claims bonus etc. Its still leaves a bad taste in my mouth after being treated to so bad by NFU and the worst thing is my horses are insured with them too! Where horses are concerned its not always black and white and the insurance companies will wiggle out of it anyway possible.


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## mole (13 May 2011)

some of the things the insurance companies have said to get out of paying is really worrying and makes me wonder why i have insurance to cover me for the unexpected if the unexpected can not be predicted and so therefore not covered!!! crazy!!!!


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## foraday (13 May 2011)

I am afraid as the law stands you will sadly have to claim on your own car insurance for this.

There is no law to say that Horses MUST be insured.  Sad but true!

The police will not intervene as it did not happen on a road and on private property.

Your car insurance will cover you for this although you will have to fork out the excess and of course if you don't have protected no claims a higher premium next time you renew.  They won't pursue the man who owns the horse (pointless and waste of time and money through the courts).

Legally the YO should have Public/Employers Liability but like with most yards they won't have this usually due to the high business rates they would have to pay and like with most liveries they don't want to pay high fees for their stables and field!


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## YasandCrystal (13 May 2011)

Maybe the legal eagles would know but could you not present him with a written estimate for the damage? Give him a reasonable time to respond and pay up - then issue a warning you will take to court and keep copies of everything you issue him with. Small claims only cost around £50 to take to court and you can claim that cost back too from him. 
Here is a link to a website with information about small claims. I used small claims against a company from whom I bought a sink which turned out to have damage - I won and got my costs back and £25 the maximum for half day off work to attend court. If this is the correct route you need photos - a witness statement if you have one, your written repair quote. Definately worth pursuing.  Good Luck!

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bargains-and-rip-offs/article.html?in_article_id=417663&in_page_id=5


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## EquestrianFairy (13 May 2011)

Its going to be estimated on Monday- at least i will know the damage caused but basically the insurance company have said its tough, i have to claim on mine and pay the excess/lose my no claims. 
Im now looking for a new yard.


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## blueneonrainbow (13 May 2011)

Unless the law has changed since I was last in UK - when stuck in queued traffic you mustn't block the access/exit of roads. If you were stationery accross the front of a street junction then you are partly liable for the damage - if you hadn't been there the mini would not have hit you.
		
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The greater duty of care is still the vehicle coming out of the side street. I can see why the insurer would try a defence of "if you werent there I wouldnt have hit you" but at the end of the day if you hit a stationary vehicle on a main road, its still your fault, same as if you hit an inconveniently parked vehicle. 

Back to OP, do as everyones said, submit the estimate to him with any other evidence, give him 28 days or so to pay them threaten with small claims court. And move yards!


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## Queenbee87 (13 May 2011)

My only legal knowledge comes from a law module within my accountancy exams but common sense would dictate not tying a horse within kicking distance of a car already parked? Surely this is something the "reasonable man" would think of and do? 

Would a fellow livery be classed as the horse owner's neighbour and therefore be  owed a duty of care? (That's my reasoning based on my limited knowledge but would be interested to hear the interpretation of someone in the know!)

OP- sorry about your car and hope the situation is resolved. Let's hope karma exists or you win the lottery! (After me of course  )


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## dieseldog (13 May 2011)

I would leave it all up to your insurance company.  I would say that it is your YO who is liable rather than the guy with the horse.  There was a case where a livery led their horse out on the road for a walk, it escaped, the YO was liable.

Think you need to be looking for a new yard


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## Spyda (14 May 2011)

Evelyn said:



			Unless the law has changed since I was last in UK - when stuck in queued traffic you mustn't block the access/exit of roads. If you were stationery accross the front of a street junction then you are partly liable for the damage - if you hadn't been there the mini would not have hit you.
		
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I wasn't blocking a _road_ entrance, the other driver was pulling out of a park carpark driveway. Since this stretch of the road was endeless driveways I'm assuming the rule doesn't count for those? It's understandable not to block access from side roads and areas with chevrons but does the rule count for driveways and other exits other than roads? Just wondered?


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