# Do fat riders make your blood boil?



## kerilli (27 September 2007)

in no other sport (apart from darts, maybe) would fatness be tolerated, but i can think of a few riders even at top level who are, imho, pretty flippin fat. (not necessarily british riders, i hasten to add.)  not just 1/2 a stone overweight, but seriously fat bums and thighs, a good couple of stone overweight at least. and at lower level, when the rider's off-balance a lot of the time, it's even worse to see, even though the horse isn't being asked to do as much, perhaps.
so, i know it's not PC, but does it make your blood boil? do you think there should be guidelines, and that seriously overweight riders shouldn't be allowed to compete?
*awaits deluge of abuse* 
	
	
		
		
	


	




btw i do think there is a horse welfare angle to this, it isn't just me being fattist!


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## Madam_max (27 September 2007)

Deary me  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  I don't think they should be banned from competing in the horse can carry the weight.


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## Christmas_Kate (27 September 2007)

If they're riding a heavyweight cob fine. But the rider in the thread below makes me sick. They should have the ILPH on their doorstep.


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## Donkeymad (27 September 2007)

Absolutely NOT, unless they are too heavy for the horse they are using, and some horses can carry a tremendous amount.


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## _OC_ (27 September 2007)

TBH I have seen big riders carry them selves well in the saddle,and also the saying goes a novice/beginner rider will always ride a stone heavier than their body weight! As long as they ride a horse that can cope with their body weight,then why should they not ride!


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## Weezy (27 September 2007)

OMG what a contencious post 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Quite frankly, as someone who has been over 2 stone overweight, all I can say is no, my blood does NOT boil


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## Worried1 (27 September 2007)

Do I presume that you are a perfect size 10 and totally in proportion to your frame?


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## bellaboo (27 September 2007)

What size, in your eyes, do you see is an acceptable size to be aloud to compete a horse then?


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## Halfstep (27 September 2007)

I think that a good, balanced rider can be overweight without it causing any problems, so long as the horse is big enough to carry them in the first place.  Its the ones who can't ride in the first place and can't carry their own weight properly who cause problems for horses.  
I can think of quite a few "heavier" riders who do a fantastic job.


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## Stacie_and_Jed (27 September 2007)

I dont have a problem with larger people riding as long as the horse is the right size and weight and up to the job of carrying the rider. I dont like seeing larger people on horses that are not able to carry the riders weight comfortably and that are really unbalanced, that does make my blood boil!!


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## AimeeLou (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
  TBH I have seen big riders carry them selves well in the saddle,and also the saying goes a novice/beginner rider will always ride a stone heavier than their body weight! As long as they ride a horse that can cope with their body weight,then why should they not ride!  

[/ QUOTE ] 

Ditto this. Surly people would lose weight riding too, I lost loads of weight, but rode everyday.


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## B_2_B (27 September 2007)

No. As long as they realise they can only ride a weight carrier then it's perfectly fine. They have just as much right as anyone to ride, as long as they don't right light-weight horses.


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## GinaB (27 September 2007)

As long as the horse can carry their weight I see no problem TBH. If it's a case that the horse is really strugglnig then it's not fair on the animal.


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## Benjamin (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
OMG what a contencious post 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Quite frankly, as someone who has been over 2 stone overweight, all I can say is no, my blood does NOT boil 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you Weezy. I am speechless!


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## _OC_ (27 September 2007)

Not all Darts players are fat! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Not that I'm into darts!


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## harrihjc (27 September 2007)

it depends just how overweight, what they're doing and obviously the horse they're riding. If the horse can carry the weight and the rider is balanced and riding 'light' then it doesn't bother me, but if they really are huge, underhorsed etc then yes it does make me a little cross!


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## ArleyMoss (27 September 2007)

If weight was affecting their performance, then they wouldn't be doing so well.


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## Equus Leather (27 September 2007)

Crikey, what a post.

I'm overweight, by about 3 stone to be honest, and yes, I do worry about it and the effect it has on the horse. BUT, surely if the horse can carry the weight then why not?

Do you sit there and think all fat people should exercise more?? I get more exercise (and enjoyment) from riding than anything else...


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## JadeWisc (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
in no other sport (apart from darts, maybe) would fatness be tolerated,

[/ QUOTE ]



American Football Linebackers
Sumo Wrestling
Hot dog eating competitions...............



anyhow...lol

No, I think horses are damn strong animals for the most part and I applaud an overwieght person for getting out there and doing something! ALot of people think that all large people are lazy and out of shape...this is not true in all cases...many are far more in shape and fit than I am and I am only 135 lbs!


As long as the horse is of the right build for the rider I have no problem with it tbh.  

If they are good enough to get to the higher levels of competition then they must be doing something right!


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## lastresort (27 September 2007)

You are opening a can of worms here???!!! what do you class as fat and coming from a mother who trys to teach her daughter not to judge people on size. There is also a difference of being over weight and seriously over weight which you have said. Also as long as people are fit enough to compete then they should be allowed. Its almost like saying should smokers be allowed to compete.

I dont think that anyone should be told what they can and cant do according to there size.  Also Jods are not the most flattering item of clothing and unless you are a size 8 and down them you look fat!

By the way im not fat or am i who is to judge??!! I think that your idea is crazy!!

Sorry but i had many years of shoving my fingers down my throat to compete at another sport and was very unhappy


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## horsegirl (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
OMG what a contencious post 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Quite frankly, as someone who has been over 2 stone overweight, all I can say is no, my blood does NOT boil 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree more, I am a little over weight now but my horse has no problems carrying me, we have lightweight tack and he has had his back checked a couple of times.


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## burtie (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 Quite frankly, as someone who has been over 2 stone overweight, all I can say is no, my blood does NOT boil    

[/ QUOTE ] 

Well quite, I'm easily a stone overweight at the moment and I think my horse seems quite happy with my riding


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## Hullabaloo (27 September 2007)

Definately not - as long as the horse is comfortable what business is it of anyone else's.  A lot is to do with how people ride anyway - my old horse had a touch of arthritis in his back and used to struggle more with my friend who was under 8 stone than he did with anyone else as she was such a "heavy" rider.


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

re: Do I presume that you are a perfect size 10 and totally in proportion to your frame?

Gosh no, i wish. my bum and thighs are bigger than i'd like, but i'm very careful about not riding anything too small for me. my usual horse is an 18hh warmblood, and i interrogated my vet about it before i broke in my homebred 15.3 (he assured me she was fine with my weight.)
for my new horse, i won't look at anything under 16.2, and i'm in the middle of losing about 1/2 a stone, more if pos.


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## wizoz (27 September 2007)

OOh Kerry, I would never be so bold as to ask this 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I think as long as the larger person rides the type that carries weight, then that's fine but I do not like to see anyone, be they fat, thin or indifferent, flopping around on the back of a horse, or just riding badly in general, that's not good.


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## EllieBeast (27 September 2007)

If they are riding a horse capeable of carrying them, then there is b*gger all wrong with it 
	
	
		
		
	


	




And, as you said yourself, there are some 'fat riders' at top level, so there is the proof that BMI has s*d all to do with it, if you have the ability, who cares how much you weigh?!?!


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## moocow (27 September 2007)

I think it depends on the rider and on what they are riding. As someone who is overweight at the moment, can't say it makes my blood boil if I see someone my size on a horse that can obviously carry the weight and more. A lot of people that are overweight, carry a lot of excess fat but have good muscle mass and therefore can control their weight. It depends on your style of riding as well. you can be a size ten and ride a lot heavier than someone who is a size 16. Also you can be a ssize 16 and have more muscle mass and can control your body weight a lot better than someone thats wafer thin and has no muscle. 

My blood would boil if I saw a very light weight horse/pony struggle to carry a 20 stone man but  a horse that fits the rider doesn't. 

remember, a 5 ft 2 size 18 woman will probably weigh less than a 6 ft fit slim man with good muscle. (admittedly I would rather see the fit man in his jods than the woman but thats just me and for a whole other reason!


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## JessPickle (27 September 2007)

No I dont think like that

If you have a horse that can take the weight does it really matter, for example my dad is 16 stone but we have a chunky 17.1hh!


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

agreed, wizoz.
i guess this post was prompted by the post about the very weak tb mare carrying the big heavy clueless rider.
i didn't mean to offend anyone, and i wasn't talking about riders who are just a bit overweight... we can't all look like supermodels, unfortunately. i wish.
there has been quite a debate on this in H&amp;H, about riding schools turning very heavy riders away, iirc, but obviously they would ride heavier than an experienced rider.
anyway, apologies if i have offended... it must be just me who feels their blood boil when they see a huge rider on a scrawny but nice horse!


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## MizElz (27 September 2007)

kerilli - a couple of months ago, I posted on here regarding my worries about my weight (whether I am too heavy for my horse, whether it is unfair, etc etc.) Everybody who replied was overwhelmingly supportive, and i soon found out that i was by no means the only person worrying about the issue.

Now, i will be honest here: i am 5ft 2, wear a size 12 and i weigh 12 stone. Officially, this makes me 2 stone 7 pounds overweight for my height and frame. i ride a lightish-build part arab 15.2hh, but she has never shown any reticence in carrying me. i have never been the smallest person in the world, but i try very hard to keep my weight down, both for my own self esteem and out of fairness to my horse. it is not easy, but unfortunately, some of us battle against the odds. i'd like to know exactly what you deem 'too fat' - do you have to be a pound overweight, a stone, four stone? a dress size, perhaps? i know plenty of people who weigh far less than me that wear a size 16, and, if im honest, look 'fatter'.

whilst we are on the subject of being to heavy for a horse, i'd like to know whether or not you condone adults/older teenagers riding small ponies in showing classes; height, after all, has as great an effect as weight. 

i apologise if people like myself 'make your blood boil', but IMO, i find it more offensive seeing a rider who is pulling its horse's mouth around, bouncing around on its back etc, than one who is perhaps a little heavier than ideal.


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## cazza (27 September 2007)

We see quite a few in Polo, but then they are always off their ponies' backs and only on board for 6 minutes.  Some fat/overweight riders ride a damn sight lighter than a skinny rider.


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## Bluecat45J (27 September 2007)

As with any sports as long as your equipment and that includes the horse is correct for the job that you require of it then no, larger built people should enjoy and get stresses at comps like everyone else.
But if the equipment is not matched to the rider then they should re-think.


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## moocow (27 September 2007)

I think riding schools have a point if they dont have a heavy weight horse to carry an overweight beginner. years ago my OH started riging lessons and he was a good 14 stone plus. they gave him a love little horse but he was only 15 1 and wasn't that heavy. they would alwasy say to my Oh to kick him on, that the horse was just lazy but in fairness to the little horse, i think OH was too heavy for him and the little fella was knackered at the end of an hour lesson. 

so i see your point. Possibly not the most tactful wording though


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## WelshRareBit (27 September 2007)

Agree with everyone that says a horse should always be the right size and capable of carrying the rider be they big small, tall short etc.
I dont think Kerilli is being anything but thought provoking here just incase anyone wants to take offence!


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## not_with_it (27 September 2007)

When watching at an unaffiliated dressage comp the other week there was a woman there who was obese and the horse clearly wasnt up to carrying her. The horse did 2 tests and was then passed onto another rider who was also overweight to ride another 2 tests. Now IMO that is cruel and my initial reaction was 'poor horse'
There was also a woman who used to be on my yard who was overweight, her pony used to groan and grunt when she got on and when being worked.


I have no problem with people who are 'overweight' riding, so long as the horse can carry them comfortably. What I dont like to see is people who are underhorsed.

Afterall most men weigh more than women and they still ride.


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## xspiralx (27 September 2007)

No, not unless they are riding inappropriate horses. I also think anyone at the top level of their sport, asking a lot of the horse, should watch their weight - its not fair to ask a thoroughbred type horse to gallop over miles of XC with an overweight rider IMO.

Like I said though, it depends on how well the horse and rider are matched. An overweight person on a good weightcarrier is fine. What makes me angry is when people ride unsuitable horses - there was a woman at an old yard of mine than was very overweight, and she bought a skinny 14hh arab - its back basically caved when she sat on it.


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## grandmaweloveyou (27 September 2007)

to xxkatyxx - " _If they're riding a heavyweight cob fine. But the rider in the thread below makes me sick. They should have the ILPH on their doorstep._ " - what rider in what thread??? brave actually pointing at someone!


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## fairhill (27 September 2007)

I would hazard a guess that a lot of the top male showjumpers could be considered overweight and it certainly doesn't stop them from doing a fantastic job, and riding better than most of us can even dream of.


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## Tempi (27 September 2007)




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## Worried1 (27 September 2007)

We don't live in a perfect world and we are not all perfect shapes. 

I would love to be about 3 stone lighter! But your suggestion that fat riders shouldn't ride is both ridiculous and hurtful. Anyone who is slightly plumper than they know they should be are self-concious enough without people making ridiculous remarks.

While I have seen some mismatched horse and riders - generally this appears to be the exception rather than the norm.

Most people are very good at self-regulating i.e they won't usually ride something that they feel is too small or too light for them.

I could interpret your post as telling me I should be ashamed of mysel for buying, riding and competing Diva. However I don't - I know that while I may be overweight Diva and I are perfectly suited to each other - FLAB and all!


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

MizElz, as i said in my first post, i was talking about people who are a few stone overweight at least... not just 1/2 a stone or more. 
i don't have any problem with adults riding ponies... for instance, i doubt anyone has told Karen O'Connor that she shouldn't ride Theodore around a 4 star because she's an adult and he's a pony! if she weighed 16 stone though, they might, i guess! as it is, she's slim, even though she's obviously a lot heavier than a small girl would be, and obviously has perfect balance.


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## GatefieldHorses (27 September 2007)

I have seen larger people balance themselves well and ride fantastic, and then seen a tiny framed person come in and ruide awfully, jabbing there horse in the mouth and bouncy around like a pratt. it isnt about the weirght of the rider, its about how lightly they ride!!!


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## ChestnutMonty (27 September 2007)

i'm afraid i agree with you Kerilli, especially when they dont ride well! 
i'm no kate moss  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 but i find it unacceptable to expect a horse to carry very heavy riders especially when being asked to compete, esp. cross country!


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## Donkeymad (27 September 2007)

QR

Riding Schools are a different matter. Many of their riders are very novice so ride heavy, and keeping a horse big enough to take these riders is often not possible, they have to keep a range to suit the 'average' rider, so have to, for very good reasons, apply weight restrictions.


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## Christmas_Kate (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
to xxkatyxx - " _If they're riding a heavyweight cob fine. But the rider in the thread below makes me sick. They should have the ILPH on their doorstep._ " - what rider in what thread??? brave actually pointing at someone! 

[/ QUOTE ]

in the 'is this cruel' thread below.


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## burtondog (27 September 2007)

I'm short and fat and love riding but to be fair there have been a number of occassions when I've been watching International Showjumping on the telly and thought that one or two of the top level riders look "less than athletic" to say the least.  I just think how these riders might be even better if they spent an hour or two at the gym but no, it doesn't make my blood boil.


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## bensababy (27 September 2007)

As people have said above - as long as the horse can carry the weight and is not suffering its a pretty silly statement to make!  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I might make a bit of a controversial question here,its a bit off topic but what really winds me up these days is why stars like Beth Ditto being celebrated for IMO being obese,when skinny stars get blasted because they are skinny.... really fails to amaze me,as to me its just as unhealthy to be obese than it is to be thin..


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## JessPickle (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
QR

Riding Schools are a different matter. Many of their riders are very novice so ride heavy, and keeping a horse big enough to take these riders is often not possible, they have to keep a range to suit the 'average' rider, so have to, for very good reasons, apply weight restrictions. 

[/ QUOTE ]

yep our RS has a 14 stone restriction, we do have big horses (such as pickle) but prefer not to use there top weight limit my dad got down to 14 to learn to ride.   He is now just under 16 but doesnt ride heavy and pickle can easily take it


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## MizElz (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
MizElz, as i said in my first post, i was talking about people who are a few stone overweight at least... not just 1/2 a stone or more. 

[/ QUOTE ]

point taken - so does this make me (at nearly 3 stone overweight) too fat?


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## wizoz (27 September 2007)

Actually, when I think about it, last night watching the Lucinda Green Clinic on Sky, there was a very large lady riding the most gorgeous coloured cob type and I did feel very sorry for it 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 They were learning to jump xc and admittedly it was only small fences but when she got it wrong, I really felt for the poor horse. Lucinda kept saying, "this horse can jump, you're just not making it" as it kept ducking out to the side of a 2ft 6" roll top skinny 
	
	
		
		
	


	





And gosh did the horse have a pop on it 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I almost felt it was a waste of a good horse, as she probably wouldn't have the guts to jump it higher than what they did last night, although, I could be wrong 
	
	
		
		
	


	





So I guess what i'm saying is, yes she was large........ and i'm bl00dy jealous, cause she has a nice horse to jump and I don't


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## xspiralx (27 September 2007)

I am sure everyone who is taking offence needs to take a step back and consider the post. I don't think kerilli is talking about somebody who is a bit overweight, after all, 12/13 stone is only the weight of an average man!

I think her post refers to people who are very overweight riding inappropriate type horses - ones not built to be weight carriers, being asked to do hard work. As far as I know, there's nobody on here who is like that.


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

umm, i did not say anywhere that "fat riders shouldn't ride", Worried1. i asked whether other people thought they shouldn't compete. 
i was thinking particularly of big heavy event riders, riding xc for at least 5 mins at the lower levels, 11 at the top level, on quality horses. not riders on strongish types, which can well cope with the weight.


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## Marilyn (27 September 2007)

I am amazed!  As long as the horse can carry the weight, i see no problem AT ALL...people riding badly with severe bits when they have no idea what they are doing gets my goat...taht's cruelty, but simply being overweight...absolutely not!


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## ajb (27 September 2007)

God what a strange question...well having been a fat rider and lost 6 stone a few years ago (and kept it off) I cant say seeing bigger riders bother me other than as Worried 1 says they would probably  like to be lighter and I want to say that they would find riding and doing stuff around the horses easier if they were however loosing weight is a mind thing and its bloody hard-dont get me started on that one as I know how hard..having said that if the horse can carry the weight and they ride ok then I dont see its a problem..rather a fat rider with soft hands who rides well than Kate Moss type who looks the part in white jods but jabs her horse in the mouth each stride ....there are worse things for a horse im sure than a few extra lbs....


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## skewbaldpony (27 September 2007)

No, it doesn't, and being rather overweight myself, what does make my blood boil, is people dripping on about how a Welshie shouldn't have anyone over 7 stone on it. Piffle. Native ponies are little weight carriers, and ridden properly, can carry twice that. And some of them are way too much of a handful for a fairy light child, in attitude terms alone!
Seeing a person who is 'over - weight' as in over the weight that a horse (usually a horse, a TB type, not a pony) can carry, yes, that is poor horsemanship. Having seen a Section B tow off out hunting with a farmer who must  have weighed 16 stone, most of it solid muscle, do I think that was cruel? No. the pony was as fit as a flea and a TB would have broken its neck over that country!


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## SpottedCat (27 September 2007)

All I will say on this is that it is interesting that whilst people  openly commented on two different american (I think they were both from the US) eventers on a recent thread, saying they both should lose weight and it was plain wrong  and unfair on the horses for them to try and compete at the highest levels whilst being overweight (I'm paraphrasing here obviously!), now everyone thinks it is absolutely fine? How bizzare!


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE JOKING RIGHT??? How dare you. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





A heavier rider can be just as effective as a slimmer one, more so in some cases. 

How you can even suggest "fat" riders should be banned from competing is UTTERLY ridiculous, as is suggesting that the riders weight is significant in wether they are balanced or not... a slimmer novice could be just as unbalanced.

Yes this is coming from an overweight person (im 16 stone, and a size 18). Yes I ride, yes my 17hh chunky type (not cob) copes with my weight very well..........I really object to anyone saying someone cant do something on the grounds of their weight, height, race etc.......

Like has been said numerous times on here, if you cant say anything nice, perhaps its better to say nothing at all!


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## bensababy (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, when I think about it, last night watching the Lucinda Green Clinic on Sky, there was a very large lady riding the most gorgeous coloured cob type and I did feel very sorry for it 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 They were learning to jump xc and admittedly it was only small fences but when she got it wrong, I really felt for the poor horse. Lucinda kept saying, "this horse can jump, you're just not making it" as it kept ducking out to the side of a 2ft 6" roll top skinny 
	
	
		
		
	


	





And gosh did the horse have a pop on it 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I almost felt it was a waste of a good horse, as she probably wouldn't have the guts to jump it higher than what they did last night, although, I could be wrong 
	
	
		
		
	


	





So I guess what i'm saying is, yes she was large........ and i'm bl00dy jealous, cause she has a nice horse to jump and I don't 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that last night - what a fantastic horse..rider just needed more confidence!


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## WelshRareBit (27 September 2007)

Again I dont think Kerilli is out to cause offence, taking it personally isnt worth it in my opinion.
Lexie your horse is obviously completely capable of carrying you - therefore you're not even in the bracket Kerilli was talking about anyway!


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## PapaFrita (27 September 2007)

Not unless they're too heavy for the horse they're riding. 
I do think though that if you're at the top of your game (or perhaps that should be 'profession') in a very strenuous and taxing sport like eventing, you would do your best to keep the weight down for the sake of the horse. Having said that, it doesn't seem to have held a couple of American lady riders back.


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## Stacie_and_Jed (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, when I think about it, last night watching the Lucinda Green Clinic on Sky, there was a very large lady riding the most gorgeous coloured cob type and I did feel very sorry for it 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 They were learning to jump xc and admittedly it was only small fences but when she got it wrong, I really felt for the poor horse. Lucinda kept saying, "this horse can jump, you're just not making it" as it kept ducking out to the side of a 2ft 6" roll top skinny 
	
	
		
		
	


	





And gosh did the horse have a pop on it 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I almost felt it was a waste of a good horse, as she probably wouldn't have the guts to jump it higher than what they did last night, although, I could be wrong 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I also watched this an d i though the horse seemed to be struggling with the xc. She wasnt very well ballanced either. Lucinder said the horse could jump 4ft odd. mmmm ide like to see that rider do it!


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## xspiralx (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 saying they both should lose weight and it was plain wrong and unfair on the horses for them to try and compete at the highest levels whilst being overweight (I'm paraphrasing here obviously!), now everyone thinks it is absolutely fine? How bizzare!

[/ QUOTE ] 

I think in this case, people are reading into it and taking it personally, when it is meant more as a discussion about people like the riders you mention.







Personally I don't think somebody should be riding 4 star at that weight. She's obviously a talented rider, but she would make the job much easier for her horses if she lost weight.


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

oooh, SpottedCat
All I will say on this is that it is interesting that whilst people openly commented on two different american (I think they were both from the US) eventers on a recent thread, saying they both should lose weight and it was plain wrong and unfair on the horses for them to try and compete at the highest levels whilst being overweight (I'm paraphrasing here obviously!), now everyone thinks it is absolutely fine? How bizzare!  

ooh, that just might have been the sort of thing i was alluding to...


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Again I dont think Kerilli is out to cause offence, taking it personally isnt worth it in my opinion.
Lexie your horse is obviously completely capable of carrying you - therefore you're not even in the bracket Kerilli was talking about anyway! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but it doesnt say in the original post "does it make your blood boil when you see a fat rider on a horse that isnt capable of carrying them" 

just "does it make you blood boil when you see fat riders and should they be banned from competing!"


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## WelshRareBit (27 September 2007)

Agree Lexie but I like to assume someone is speaking some sense rather than worry uneccessarily, obviously since it has arisen that that it was kerilli is alluding to and therefore no need to worry yourself.


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## Ellz (27 September 2007)

ahem??!i weigh 15 stone and i am probably above YOUR game. not to brag or anything but i am at grand prix dressage level and can garuntee that i get a bl**dy good atore everyitme i go out getting placed every time...how old am i??16 how fat am i?quite but it doesn't mean that atleast three stoe of that isn't muscle and i am at the top of my game- THANKS.how rude... &gt;=[


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## xspiralx (27 September 2007)

I think thats the other one.

Becky Holder and Buck Davidson.


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## suestowford (27 September 2007)

I remember the thread and the picture of that large lady eventing her little horse. 
I don't think this was right, she IS big and the horse is having to work too hard. I would prefer not to see this combination competing.
Generally speaking large people riding doesn't offend me (a good thing  too seeing as I am size 14) but I don't think it's right to make a little horse work so hard under a lot of weight.


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## malibu211211 (27 September 2007)

Personally, no they don't because I think that for the people who genuinely cares for their horse they are not going to do anything that is gonna harm their horse including making their horse carry more than they are capable of.

What about the rider's that are far too tall for their horse/pony?
Surely that must affect the horse's balance?


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## S_N (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 [ QUOTE ]
 saying they both should lose weight and it was plain wrong and unfair on the horses for them to try and compete at the highest levels whilst being overweight (I'm paraphrasing here obviously!), now everyone thinks it is absolutely fine? How bizzare!

[/ QUOTE ] 

I think in this case, people are reading into it and taking it personally, when it is meant more as a discussion about people like the riders you mention.







Personally I don't think somebody should be riding 4 star at that weight. She's obviously a talented rider, but she would make the job much easier for her horses if she lost weight. 

[/ QUOTE ]


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## xspiralx (27 September 2007)

You're 16 and competing Grand Prix dressage? Impressive.


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

Im not worried I just think it is a very ignorant post....... no one would mind people shooting her down in flames if she were to say "do you think asians should be banned from competing!

Its very easy to backtrack and say that you meant it this way after people have become annoyed!


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## wizoz (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 Personally I don't think somebody should be riding 4 star at that weight. She's obviously a talented rider, but she would make the job much easier for her horses if she lost weight. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think i'm inclined to agree with you


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## jacks_mum (27 September 2007)

Do you not think there is more than enough of this PC cr@p in the world without adding to it? If the horse is capable of carrying the rider, there is no issue.


Aand what better way is there of having fun and shedding a few pounds than riding?


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## WelshRareBit (27 September 2007)

Thats true but personally I have never found Kerilli to be rude or arrogant and certainly never nasty - so perhaps Im judging her on past experience rather than one post. In effect, expecting the best of her rather than the worst. Maybe Im naive?

I could be wrong...


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## kick_On (27 September 2007)

can i just ask?? 
Are you bored???  
	
	
		
		
	


	




as light blue touch paper and take cover!!!!!!!


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## Tempi (27 September 2007)

*snigger*

whats your horse called?  I dont know many 16 yr olds competing at GP level, so this should be interesting!


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## S_N (27 September 2007)

As we all know on here I am overweight!!  I have taken serious steps to loose weight so I can ride my lovely, lovely mare!  Last count I had lost 71lbs!  I need to loose about the same again though!!  I can also guarantee you that I weighed more than anyone on here ever dreamed it possible for someone to weigh and still be fit and active!  One day I will tell the world how much I used to weigh - took along time for me to wake up and smell the coffee so to speak!  

Was I riding when I was huger than I am now?  Yes!  Does this horse appear to be struggling?  NO, why?  Because he could cope with it and I NEVER demanded too much from him!!


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

That maybe so..... I dont tend to notice or remember names on here so i cant comment on previous postings by the OP, Im sure she's very nice normaly!

I think this post, if you are overweight though would of course touch a nerve.... maybe if you were 4 stone over weight you wouldnt be able to still see the best in the OP!!


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## WelshRareBit (27 September 2007)

SN can I just say thats a gorgeous pic and no he doesnt look like he's struggling one bit to me.


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## Michelle73 (27 September 2007)

OK, going to put the cat among the pidgeons here:

I was 15st 8lb when I started riding my current horse who is by the way a 15.3hh heavy weight cob/driving horse who rides extremely light and airy for such a big animal -  *Since 15th March I have gone from being 14st 5lb to 9st 13lb and still riding the same horse.  YES WEIGHT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE to the way you ride.  *  When I was obese my riding and balance was no where near as good as it is now that I've lost the weight.  

YES WEIGHT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE - I wouldn't have been riding a top class National Hunt Race Horse yesterday if I was still fat!  

If the heavy person rides well, has the appropriate horse for their weight then fill your boots, ride out, compete and enjoy.  But if you're heavy, underhorsed, unbalanced etc get your fat ar*e out of the saddle and lose some weight then get back on!  

And my blood will boil if this has offended anyone because I've been 16st 8lb before getting to where I am now.  I've been that person who was treated as though all fat people are lazy and you know what I wasn't lazy, I've always been active I just ate way too much and thats what overweight  boils down to "eating way too much".


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## MizElz (27 September 2007)

Sportznight - what a lovely, lovely horse! you look great together, wonderful photo


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## wizoz (27 September 2007)

And to be fair to you SportzNight, you look fab on your lovely horse.

We need something like him for my mum, she is 6ft though and weighs IRO 14stone.

Good luck on you weight loss campaign, I hope you get to where you want to be without too much trouble


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## trundle (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
ahem??!i weigh 15 stone and i am probably above YOUR game. not to brag or anything but i am at grand prix dressage level and can garuntee that i get a bl**dy good atore everyitme i go out getting placed every time...how old am i??16 how fat am i?quite but it doesn't mean that atleast three stoe of that isn't muscle and i am at the top of my game- THANKS.how rude... &gt;=[ 

[/ QUOTE ]

Should be fairly easy to figure out who you are then ! 

*thinks back to all the 16 year old GP dressage riders she's seen, and tries to recall the fat ones*

Do you actually know what GP dressage is?


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## WelshRareBit (27 September 2007)

I agree Lexie - maybe Im taking it a different way because Im like an ironing board - to my own disgust may I add!  I can see how it might offend - i suppose Im just trying to help it not offend!! :-S


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## jewel (27 September 2007)

thanks for put the pic up SN  you made me  feel loads better


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## wizoz (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Since 15th March I have gone from being 14st 5lb to 9st 13lb  

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, well done you, that's a fantastic achievement. I hope you feel great about yourself.


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## MizElz (27 September 2007)

Trundle - LMAO!!!!!!!


reminds me of a thread on a this forum, actually, about 4 years ago... 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 i was talking about an act of cruelty i had witnessed 1st hand by an irish show jumper who has now gone to be a grand national winning jump jockey....no names mentioned of course...and some eejit ripped into me for criticising! his exact words were, 'I bet you're just some f&amp;*^ing member's cupper...'  

hmmm, how interesting!


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## trundle (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Since 15th March I have gone from being 14st 5lb to 9st 13lb and still riding the same horse.  

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a fantastic achievement, Michelle. Can i ask, what did you do to achieve that weight loss? Was it simply "eat less, exercise more"? Did you cut out anything completely like sugar?


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

Hmmmmmm Michelle... I was about 12 stone when I gave up riding for 4 years, Im now 16 stone.... (good lesson for not giving up riding!!)... I recently had a lesson with my instructor who knew me when i was much lighter, she said I was rusty but not worse than 4 years ago, so Im not sure your theory can be applied to everyone!!!


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## Michelle73 (27 September 2007)

Yes I do thank you Wizoz.  Especially after riding that rearing race horse yesterday!!!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Bring it on!!!!


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## at work (27 September 2007)

No, it doesn't generally make my blood boil. The photos that have been posted of competition riders don't look that gross to me and they are in balance on fit, well muscled horses.

What does make my blood boil is a very overweight rider on an equally overweight horse, even if they do only hack, who believes that making the poor horse carry a massive excess body weight of it's own has somehow turned it into a 'weight carrier' suitable for them to ride.


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## Michelle73 (27 September 2007)

Did the Cambridge Diet to break the bad habits of emotional eating.  Thank you.


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## Agent XXX999 (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
You're 16 and competing Grand Prix dressage? Impressive. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Giggles.

My tuppence worth

Basically, if you are a tubby person on a horse that suits you, i.e. a heavyweigh cob or a native,  then that obviously works.

HOWEVER

Eventing/Dressage/SJ/Racing is a physically demanding and athletic sport on both you and the horse. You would not expect a skiier, or a football player, or a tennis player at the highest levels to be a fatty, so why should it differ with horses 

I am also of the opinion that if you want to get rid of the weight you can, and that 90% of overweight people are greedy and eat too much. I lost 2 stone, through eating less and correctly...so I do have an informed opinion!


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## Michelle73 (27 September 2007)

Read my post again Lexihb - I did say if you're balanced and your horse can carry you appropriately fill your boots!!


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## tabithakat64 (27 September 2007)

My current horse is a 14.3hh supposssedly Welsh D (cob type) he carries both me at 5 foot2 and 12 and a half stone and also my RI at 5 foot 10 and 14 stone.  I also have a 13.2hh Welsh B x Arab who I have ridden twice for 15 minutes in walk over the last year as I know I am way too heavy for her.  I know that I would probably ride better if I lost weight. 
I do think people underestimate how much horses can carry, although I do feel the women in the thread below is obviously damaging her horse.
I don't think rider 'fatness' is a huge problem within the equestrian world and personally I would be more worried about the people who dump their horses in the field and don't take care of them, ride badly, buy a horse without enough knowledge or over horse themselves


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## charlie76 (27 September 2007)

I am the manager of a riding school and I do often feel bad for the horses when I larger rider comes to rider them esp if they are unbalanced and bumping about ( this includes some of our better riders). 
We have a weight limit and will , if need be, put people on the scales as many people take off a stone or 2 when asked their weight!
If a rider is overweight I feel its ok as long as they are aware of that fact, a few riders we have seem to look through that fact and expect to be able to do the same as the fitter rider- for example, in my experience as an instructor, larger people tend to find it difficult to fold from their wasit and allow the hand when jumping or keep forward seat when riding across country.
I also agree that in most 'sports' the person doing the sport would not be overweight.
I know when I am a little too heavy to ride and try to do something about it as its not comfatable for me let alone the horse!
However, saying that, we have a few riders here that are on the bigger side and are well balanced and give the horse no problems at all.
I do not like to see people on horses that are to small for them though.

The other thing to note is that larger people don't always need a great big tall horse to ride- we often put them on smaller cobs with plenty of bone as this seems to give a more balanced picture.
If anyone( like myself) needs to lose weight feel free to come and muck out one of our 78 horses and ponies- you soon slim down!!!!!


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## Haniki (27 September 2007)

Don't forget there may be a medical reason for a rider being fat eg An underactive thyroid glad.
A good TB should be capable of carrying 12 stone as that is the weight for a NH horse until it gets a handicap.


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## Michelle73 (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]

What does make my blood boil is a very overweight rider on an equally overweight horse, even if they do only hack, who believes that making the poor horse carry a massive excess body weight of it's own has somehow turned it into a 'weight carrier' suitable for them to ride. 

[/ QUOTE ]


There is skewbald grotesquely gargantuan overweight horse in a yard near me and when the owner rides out with a fag in one hand and the reins in the other it makes my blood boil because the horses legs are buckling under her weight (the horses weight) she's sway backed and I think its appauling.  Why have the yard owners not interviened.   
	
	
		
		
	


	





SORRY got off the subject!


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

Yes I know that! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I was just saying that not everyones balance is effected all that much by weight. 

Well done for losing so much, im currently low carbing which seems to be working for me.


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## Michelle73 (27 September 2007)

I'd expect a 14.3hh Welsh Cob to be able to carry up to 13st 10lb no problem!


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## gentle_giant (27 September 2007)

As long as the horse can comfortably carry the rider in everything they do together it doesnt matter how big they are.


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## rforsyth1984 (27 September 2007)

[image]
	
	
		
		
	


	




[/image] 
 [image]http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/rforsyth1984/?action=view&amp;current=Sian004.jpg[/image]  [image]http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/rforsyth1984/?action=view&amp;current=dressagesun22janSian003_0001_0001.jpg[/image] 

Like this you mean? I havnt read all the replies yet, but as an overweight rider (by 3-4 stone at the moment, though admittedly losing weight) who rides a 15.1hh arab I was slightly put out by this post. 
My horse has no problems carrying me now, or even when I was a bit heavier. And no, I dont think I should be banned from competing and go hide my fat away from the 'beautiful people'


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## rforsyth1984 (27 September 2007)

bugger, images didnt work

http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/r...3_0001_0001.jpg
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/r...3_0001_0001.jpg
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/r...3_0001_0001.jpg


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

Cant see the image!!


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## Michelle73 (27 September 2007)

You're amazing and I hope you inspire others.  What a magnificent pair you are.


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## horsegirl (27 September 2007)

qr

so am I too fat for my TB?


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

You're not fat at all!!!!


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## S_N (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
qr

so am I too fat for my TB?


[/ QUOTE ]

No, but you need to shorten your stirrups


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## S_N (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
You're amazing and I hope you inspire others.  What a magnificent pair you are.   
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Were, he's no longer with us.  Thank you though!


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## horsegirl (27 September 2007)

I'm 5ft 10 and about a size 14/16 when I ride with flat length stirrups I feel so massive on him


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## Starbucks (27 September 2007)

If i was a big person I don't think I would ride until I lost weight - party because jods are really not very flattering and partly because I don't see why a horse should have to carry me round!

Each to there own I guess but if I had to carry someone round all the time, I would rather they were not hugely over weight!


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## horsegirl (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
qr

so am I too fat for my TB?


[/ QUOTE ]

No, but you need to shorten your stirrups 
	
	
		
		
	


	









[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I know, I now have them up another hole, we have only just started jumping


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

Basically, if you are a tubby person on a horse that suits you, i.e. a heavyweigh cob or a native, then that obviously works.

HOWEVER

Eventing/Dressage/SJ/Racing is a physically demanding and athletic sport on both you and the horse. You would not expect a skiier, or a football player, or a tennis player at the highest levels to be a fatty, so why should it differ with horses 

Absolutely, FeuFolet.. that is just what i was getting at, but put much better and more tactfully than i managed! Thankyou.


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## Sal_E (27 September 2007)

Ha ha, great post, really made me laugh - sorry anyone who's insulted by it, but I love the bluntness of it, LOL!

To answer the question though, I couldn't give a stuff about seeing 'fat' people on well suited horses, but hate seeing unsuitable combinations whether that's fat people on little TB's or tall solid men on little ponies. It's not about how much you weigh, it's about being a suitable match for the animal.

I'm a small, short size 12 &amp; would probably look far more stupid on a huge weight-carrying cob than someone much bigger than me...


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## PapaFrita (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]

so am I too fat for my TB?


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you are, then I am for mine 
	
	
		
		
	


	




So basically no, you're not


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## StaceyTanglewood (27 September 2007)

god ive laughed for 6 pages !!! 

i do agree that when riding at high levels especially eventing and showjumping when the horse has to lift itself and the rider sometimes its not fair !! but as long as the horse can carry the weight and is happy then thats fine really !!!


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## rforsyth1984 (27 September 2007)

grr i used to be able to do pictures... *waddles off to relearn how to pist pics*


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

thanks, Sal_E, i'm glad more than one or two other people took it in the spirit in which it was intended. i should have worded it better, but i was still seething after seeing the pics of the poor weak mare who is (allegedly) being ridden by a very large person.
anyway, totally agree with your post.
i never set out to offend anyone, and i wasn't referring to anyone who posts here... crikey, how could i, i have no idea who you all are. 
so, sorry if i offended anyone, but i never said "i'm amazingly skinny and wonderful, why aren't you lot?", did i? jeez. for a start, i'm not!
i had certain eventers in mind who are very large on tb's going 4 miles+ at speed, and i guess i should have stated that.  people appropriately mounted on horses that can cope with their size, i have no problem with at all.


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

re: god ive laughed for 6 pages !!! 

Interesting to see who got very very offended by it, isn't it?


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## rforsyth1984 (27 September 2007)

[image]
	
	
		
		
	


	




[/image]





 [image]
	
	
		
		
	


	




[/image] 

There we go, as I said, 3 -4 stone overweight and probably squashing my 15.1 arab, but he seems to cope fine and loves to jump and gallop for hours on end


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## minkymoo (27 September 2007)

If it makes anyone else feel better, it's not just people who are a bit weighty...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_uT-i4wrm9Ec/Rq-J53wUtrI/AAAAAAAAATY/nOSrf95zo08/s1600-h/obesecob2.gif

Now, you can't tell me that this should be allowed either?

Sorry, slight change of subject... Just trying to lighten the mood a little bit


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## Skhosu (27 September 2007)

So long as the horse is not struggling/they are not hugely above the weight that horse can carry (lets face it, how many different opinions on how much a horse can carry are there?) .
I definitely think it woudl be unfair to ban them from competing, and how do you define who is overweight? 
Let me guess, what size are you?


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

feel free to guess.






as i said, appropriately mounted = fine. hugely fat on a tb going round a 4star = not fine, imho.


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## Smash (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget there may be a medical reason for a rider being fat eg An underactive thyroid glad. 

[/ QUOTE ]

So? That doesn't change the fact that the horse has to carry you...no one is saying 'fat riders should eat less pies' just that they should ride suitable horses for their size.


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## WelshRareBit (27 September 2007)

Cant see the pic Minky!

It is interesting to see whose taken the post to heart and who hasnt, I wonder if its down to wether you feel you are overweight or not??


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## charlie76 (27 September 2007)

I think that larger riders should try and avoid big fat round cobs, although they do need to ride something that can carry them.
We have a lovely lady on the yard who is on the round side who ride a very round cob and she is very unbalanced as the picture is of one round object balanced on another round object which simply doesn't work.

I won't ride without a gilet on as a notice my tummy rolling over my waistband!


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## xspiralx (27 September 2007)

Or who is paranoid that they ARE too big for their horses?


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## Agent XXX999 (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget there may be a medical reason for a rider being fat eg An underactive thyroid glad. 

[/ QUOTE ]

So? That doesn't change the fact that the horse has to carry you...no one is saying 'fat riders should eat less pies' just that they should ride suitable horses for their size. 

[/ QUOTE ]


Um, actually I did say that 90% of overweight people are over weight because they eat too much, are greedy, and have no motivation to go on a diet - If you wanted to lose the weight, you could (hence why slimmers world etc are still going - they teach you to eat less and exercise more, you go, and loose weight)

Probably only 10% of overweight people are overweight due to medical reasons.


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## Puppy (27 September 2007)

QR - 

Woah there's a lot of people taking the thread personally.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I swear people don't give up their weight and post photos so easily when there's a thread titled "what do you weigh?"


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## Skhosu (27 September 2007)

wrote a big reply, but why? I ride horses I am comfortable with. nobody has ever said I am too big, aside from when growing out of ponies, and that's fair enough. I knew when I had to move on from ponies, I like to think I would know if I was too heavy for my horse.
Are all the people supporting this, what size/weight are you? 8-10 I'm thinking?


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## bellaboo (27 September 2007)

I don't see why anybody should have to justify why they are riding the horse that they do. 
As for people on here saying that the people who are being offended by this topic must be concerned about being overweight or being too heavy for there horse, if you have never been overweight then you don't know how much it plays on your mind, and posts like this don't help the overweight person as it just makes then more paranoid about there weight. This is why there is so many eating disorders around as EVERYBODY is always under pressure about looking the right way, being pretty enough etc, does it really matter as long as a person is happy and healthy?


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## tabithakat64 (27 September 2007)

Slimming world is actually about food combining and you can eat as much of certain things (not just fruit and veg) as you want.  As a fat person who has always struggled with her weight and has joined slimming world and chatted to loads of others like me I feel it's lack of excercise and what people eat rather than how much thats often the problem.  Being overweight and having medical problems is in most cases a vicious circle, I have ME and arthritis and struggle to exercise even when I'm not over weight as it's too tiring and often very painful but at my current weight any exercise (other than riding/mucking out/houswework) is virtually impossible.
I don't find this thread offensive at all although I can see how some people might have as the original post wasn't very specific.


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## Smash (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]



Um 

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite possibly the most antagonising start to a reply there is.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





There are two ways to put it - 

a) you need to lose weight
b) you need to ride a suitable horse.

The difference between the two is the likelihood of getting a smack in the face.


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## clipclop (27 September 2007)

I started reading the thread but it was just getting silly.

I agree with you. I am over weight, probably by around 3 stone. I am hell bent on losing the weight for my horses.

Yes, he can carry me no problem at all but imagine how much easier it would be for him to carry me if I were a couple of stone lighter? 

Not only that but imagine how effective my riding would become as a less fat rider. I know my fat gets in the way, I remember how it felt to ride as a slimmish person, it was a whole lot easier than it is now.

I do believe as horse owners/riders we should try and make an effort to be as fit and as light as possible. If we can't do that then we must have a horse that is more than capable of carrying us. We should at least try though.


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## Foxford (27 September 2007)

I have been physically sickened by seeing huge riders on horses/ponies. Worse than the eventing examples posted here  
	
	
		
		
	


	




. I don't think it's wrong to say so. I get annoyed when people say tall people are worse for horses than heavy people. I am 5'10" (not overweight for my height) and used to hack out and school/jump my 14.1 Fell. She had no trouble carrying me at all. And I don't think it affected her balance to carry me as she was used to it. I don't see how a well balanced tall person is any worse than a well balanced overweight person. But apparently it's ok to discriminate against tall people?


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## xspiralx (27 September 2007)

Well William Fox Pitt proves that theory incorrect - he rides beautifully.


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## Blizzard (27 September 2007)

As long as the horse can comfortably carry the rider then I dont see aproblem, saying that Im always over cautious myself about what weight I let my horses carry.

Beau is a big strong chunky 17.3hh WB, and i have no doubt he coud carry just about anyone,however I woud ony let a heavy rider ride him if they were well balanced, I hate seeing people bounce around on horses backs.

Lance is a good mw 16.2hh WB and again im sure he can carry plenty of weight, its more how someone rides.

My OH is over 13stones and rides them both, I dont think they even know Im there, Im only 8stones LOL


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

This is why there is so many eating disorders around as EVERYBODY is always under pressure about looking the right way, being pretty enough etc, does it really matter as long as a person is happy and healthy? 

i agree about the eating disorders, and as long as someone's happy i don't personally care if they're the size of a sofa, as long as they aren't going to sit on a horse that's not up to their weight. 
so, yes, it does matter... for the horses' sakes.


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## WelshRareBit (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see why anybody should have to justify why they are riding the horse that they do. 
As for people on here saying that the people who are being offended by this topic must be concerned about being overweight or being too heavy for there horse, if you have never been overweight then you don't know how much it plays on your mind, and posts like this don't help the overweight person as it just makes then more paranoid about there weight.  

[/ QUOTE ]

If this was aimed at me I was simply wondering!!


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## bellaboo (27 September 2007)

WelshRarebit - Soz wasn't aimed at you  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I do agree that a horse and rider should comfortably match, but i also know how easy it is to get really paranoid about weight, being overweight myself, i know my limits as to what type of horse i can ride. Just know how paranoid other overweight people would feel reading this post.


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## aimeerose (27 September 2007)

*steps away from the thread*


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## TequilaMist (27 September 2007)

I am about 3 stone overweight and TBH do think twice about riding my welsh cob mainly because I feel top heavy if you know what I mean but feel ok on daughter 16.2 warmblood.
I don't have a problem with overweight people competeing as long as horse suits weight etc.
Oh and you can also be overweight when you don't eat enough!!Honest have even seem dr about it.Should be like Twiggy the amount of energy I use.Used to walk ar least 10 miles a night,4 night (stacking shelves someone measured it) hardly eat never lost an ounce!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




This was also doing 2 horses and working on yard mucking out one day a week


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## SpottedCat (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I am about 3 stone overweight and TBH do think twice about riding my welsh cob mainly because I feel top heavy if you know what I mean but feel ok on daughter 16.2 warmblood.
I don't have a problem with overweight people competeing as long as horse suits weight etc.
Oh and you can also be overweight when you don't eat enough!!Honest have even seem dr about it.Should be like Twiggy the amount of energy I use.Used to walk ar least 10 miles a night,4 night (stacking shelves someone measured it) hardly eat never lost an ounce!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




This was also doing 2 horses and working on yard mucking out one day a week 

[/ QUOTE ]

That is because your body goes into starvation mode and converts most of what you eat into fat (in the broadest sense of a description!). It's why staration diets do not work long term.


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## Sooty (27 September 2007)

Maybe you should substitute the word 'black' or 'Jewish' for 'fat' to see just how offensive and inappropriate your OP is. No riders make my blood boil unless they are causing a horse distress in some way.


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

umm, "Sooty",  steady on. i would never never say such a thing about "black" or "Jewish" people. how dare you intimate that it is the same thing. i am neither racist nor prejudiced.
being fat is a choice. sorry, but it is. i'm not saying it's easy to lose weight, but no-one ever went to bed 10 stone and woke up weighing 20 stone.
if someone is huge and happy, fine, as long as the only thing they want to sit on is a sofa.
if they're huge and riding a horse which isn't up to their weight, it's a welfare issue.


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## htobago (27 September 2007)

I must admit I do feel distressed when I see a horse/pony carrying a rider who is clearly too big or heavy for it.

What also upsets me is that so few people nowadays seem to know that a horse's weight-carrying ability is determined by the amount of bone it has, NOT by its height, breed, etc.

The rule-of-thumb I was always taught is that a horse/pony with 8" of bone can carry up to a maximum of 13 stone (that's including all tack, rider's heavy clothing, etc. so does NOT mean a 13-stone rider). 9" of bone can carry up to 15 stone (including tack etc.). Above 9.5" is a serious weight-carrier.

I was taught that other factors, such as the horse's age, condition, fitness, conformation, etc., and the rider's skill/ability can be taken into consideration, but only to  *reduce*  the amount of weight a horse should be asked to carry - i.e. even a well-made fit horse in peak condition with a brilliant rider should  *never*  be asked to carry more than the maximum for its bone.

A horse that is very young or very old, unfit, in poor condition, with conformation faults, etc. (or with an inexperienced rider) should not be asked to carry the maximum for its bone.

This is (or should be) a simple welfare issue - same as if we were discussing how many pounds of straw a pack-donkey should be asked to carry - but unfortunately it gets muddled up with all sorts of issues about body-image.

It would perhaps help if we used somewhat more 'morally neutral' terms, such as 'weight' and 'heavy', rather than 'fat', which is both innacurate (muscle weighs more than fat) and can hurt people's feelings.

(P.S. I am 5ft5 and weigh 6 stone - not glamorously slim but unattractively scrawny, and a lousy rider to boot! If I were a horse I'd much rather have SN on my back than me LOL! And I know that as an intelligent, caring rider, she wouldn't get on my back in the first place unless I had enough bone to carry her.)


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## Bettyboo1976 (27 September 2007)

Juat a thought... if larger people were not meant to ride horses.. why make larger sized riding clothes?/?  just a thought


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

because there's the demand, and people pay for them. the fact is, with better nutrition, people are getting bigger and heavier. unfortunately for a lot of horses.


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## Shantor1 (27 September 2007)

What's your problem Kerilli?   I suppose you'd call me fat then as I'm 5'4" and 12½ stone.  Yes I used to be 9-10 stone in my younger days but due to back injury and continuing back problem I find exercise difficult so yeah have put on weight.  Whats it to you if people are or are not overweight.  Its how they treat other people that counts.   I've recently started to alter my lifestyle and do more exercise and plan to ride my 18hh boy through the winter.    

What group is this forum going to pick on next?


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

i don't have a problem. you're fine on your 18hander, if you'd said you have a 13 hander i might be a little concerned. simple.  
i'm not picking on anyone, if you read the entire thread (mind you, you might die of boredom doing it!) you'll hopefully see that.  i wasn't having an anti-fat rant, i was saying (not very clearly at first, i realise, and i apologise) that big people on horses too slight or small for their weight are not being fair to their horses. other people have agreed with me and made the point far more clearly.


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## Ginn (27 September 2007)

Wow! Too many posts to trawl through so apologies if I am repeating someone else! 

I think that while there is a welfare issue surrounding the competition horses having to cope with the extra loads I think perhaps the bigger issue is the health and fitness of the rider. Surely if the rider is unfit then he or she will be unable to balance themself correctly, thus putting extra strain on the horse and they will be unable to react as quickly as a fitter rider (thats probably not making much sense but hopefully you get what I mean). 

That said I know some very fit people who ride and compete but are huge! One of them is a brilliant rugby player, is bulit like a brick s**thouse, has amazing core stability and strength and is just solid muscle. He must weight a good 14 stone but he is by no means overweight or unfit and can remain more balanced than many I know on a horse, allowing it to move freely underneath him and not hindering it in anyway. He also has lightening quick responses and I have seen him get himself and his horse out of trouble on the hunting field before because of this!

So I do beleive it boils down to fitness of the rider rather than how much weight they are carrying.


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## Sooty (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
umm, "Sooty",  steady on. i would never never say such a thing about "black" or "Jewish" people. how dare you intimate that it is the same thing. i am neither racist nor prejudiced.
being fat is a choice. sorry, but it is. i'm not saying it's easy to lose weight, but no-one ever went to bed 10 stone and woke up weighing 20 stone.
if someone is huge and happy, fine, as long as the only thing they want to sit on is a sofa.
if they're huge and riding a horse which isn't up to their weight, it's a welfare issue. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I am quite sure you would never say such a thing, but why do you feel at liberty to take cheap shots at another area of society? Being Jewish is also a choice, come to that! Your original post specifically targetted fat people riding, regardless of their ability or size of horse. It seems to be that you are quite obviously prejudiced - against fat people riding!


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## Irishcobs (27 September 2007)

Interesting, working for an eventer I get to see alot of riders and there horses from other countries as well as the UK. Now at the moment we are trying to find a man in the US a Novice + eventer. He is 6ft+ and about 13stone. We are having to look over 16.2hh and a good mw. We are not even considering pure tbs. We have been looking for a few months so far and found 1 horse, just the one, that he is coming to see.
Do I think he shouldn't compete, no, just as long as he competes on the correct horses.


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## Christmas_Kate (27 September 2007)

To be fair Kerilli did make it clear exactly what she meant, it's just some chose to go off on a tangent and make out it was large riders in general. When it wasnt. 
I quite agree, I don't think someone of 5'6 weighing 20 stone would make a good rider, and shouldnt be competing.


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

thanks Katy!


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
To be fair Kerilli did make it clear exactly what she meant, it's just some chose to go off on a tangent and make out it was large riders in general. When it wasnt. 
I quite agree, I don't think someone of 5'6 weighing 20 stone would make a good rider, and shouldnt be competing. 

[/ QUOTE ]

You can say that now but the title of this post wasnt Do fat top level competition riders make your blood boil was it?????


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

if you read my original post, i definitely said about competing, not just riding. i didn't say it clearly enough, but i was referring to big overweight riders on lightweight horses. read my other posts (although i won't be surprised if you can't be bothered) if you like... i never said "fat people shouldn't be allowed to ride", i swear!


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]


Um, actually I did say that 90% of overweight people are over weight because they eat too much, are greedy, and have no motivation to go on a diet - If you wanted to lose the weight, you could (hence why slimmers world etc are still going - they teach you to eat less and exercise more, you go, and loose weight)

Probably only 10% of overweight people are overweight due to medical reasons. 

[/ QUOTE ]

FF... that really really isnt true AT ALL... if it was THAT easy to lose weight no one would be fat, over eating can be just as serious condition as under eating, people self sabotage(by stuffing their faces) as they feel they are worthless, as an anorexic starves themselves!

All sorts of head fu*kery goes on in the minds of over weight people so to say they could lose it if they really wanted to isnt stictly true. the same way a dying anorexic still wont eat!

Unless you have ever been seriously over weight, and I mean like 4 stone plus, its difficult to understand how anyone could/would let themselves get that fat but really and truely, its not that simple!


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

umm, those weren't my words. i did say that no-one goes to bed 10 stone and wakes up 20 stone, and i stand by that. sorry if it sounds harsh, and i'll admit i'm no expert, but i resolutely believe that if someone gets enormous, they should think long and hard before riding a horse that isn't up to the weight. i don't think that is an unreasonable thing to say.


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

kerilli... I know those werent your words hence that reply is to FF!!!

I also know your not saying all fat people shouldnt ride ... but that wasnt clear in the first post...... and I know you've tried to make amends, but you have to understand coming form the side of the fence that was being "attacked" it was bound to get peoples backs up!


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## Christmas_Kate (27 September 2007)

Hence why people should read a whoile thread before they go on the attack


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

I did and replied way before my post above.... thanks!


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## Cahill (27 September 2007)

(just checking out if i`m still a thread killer)
lol


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## kerilli (27 September 2007)

sorry lexie, i read the FF as short for something else! oops. my vile mind.
unless you're a 4 star eventer who weighs about 15 stone, i swear to god i wasn't attacking you!
if you read the original post, i didn't say "shouldn't ride", i said "shouldn't compete". as i've already said, i didn't intend to offend anyone.


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## Sooty (27 September 2007)

My friend and former instructor gave up her riding school to become a full time dressage instructor to a junior international competitor, and travel round the world with her. She herself competed at high level, and was as round as she is tall. Thankfully, she was judged on her riding ability, not her figure.


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## Weezy (27 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]

unless you're a 4 star eventer who weighs about 15 stone

[/ QUOTE ]

I can think of a good few male jockeys that are prob around that!


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## Christmas_Kate (27 September 2007)

It's not about figure. It's about horse welfare. a 20 stone rider compting a 16.2hh TB is like me doing the shetland grand national on Gingy... I'd break the poor bugger's back!


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

DAMN... im nearly 16 stone actually..... will have to shelve my 4* plans!!

I really need to get some pics of me riding actually, as lots of people dont believe I weigh that much, would be interesting to see what you thought!! LOL


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## Murphy3 (27 September 2007)

Just to keep to the subject of competition riding, particularly jumping, I had an interesting conversation recently with a 50 yr old who said she wouldn't jump anymore due to being overweight.  She did some major league SJing in her skinny girlhood but she feels now that as she carries her weight around her middle her tum gets in the way if she tried to fold over jumps(!) and she's just not supple enough.  She also felt if she had a fall she would come down very very very hard so at the moment she is a member of the flat earth society, despite riding a stonking great IDx.   

My own thought on the subject - the white jodhpur is the single most unforgiving item of clothing a woman can put on her rear end (wiry young males in white jodhpurs on the other hand ...)!


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## sallypops (27 September 2007)

if the horse is happy its fine, why take away someones passion for riding


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## Nickymac (27 September 2007)

This could go on for as long as the Parelli thread!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Kerilli, you must remember in the "old days" when we had to carry 11st 11 at advanced, and all the reasons why that rule went out the window. Dead weight is not great for horses; you see overweight riders that ride beautifully in balance, and lightweight riders that don't, but there is definitely a point where your size and type of horse must suit not only your weight but the level you ride at.


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## TequilaMist (27 September 2007)

Yes realise that but have done it both ways no diff.And my mistake when I said I hardly ate I meant I just had 2/3 mealtimes a day and don't gorge like people think I do!
But even if body is in starvation mode it will eventually loose weight wether it be muscle or fat.
I have cut out drink,chips fatty foods eat healthily with odd treat and I mean odd,no diff so TBH do give up!!
On the other hand it doesn't go up any further


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## lexiedhb (27 September 2007)

I think everyones body has its own unique weight... if you can lose weight easily then your probably to heavy if not then theres no point killing yourself trying!!

Im dieting at the mo, and it is a struggle, i lose maybe one week in 4!!


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## RobinHood (27 September 2007)

I have just read through this whole thread and I understand exactly what you are saying and agree with you 100%. How much someone weighs is their own business and noone should slate someone for being overweight, unless however they are hindering their horse. You should make it as easy as possible for your horse to carry you, not weigh him down with excess blubber. (Other people have expressed this better than me but I hope what I am trying to say comes across  
	
	
		
		
	


	




)


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## magic104 (27 September 2007)

I think the point of the post was can you be too overweight to compete when other sports you are expected to be fit/slim.  I agree though that it depends on the rider.  There was a woman that ran a yard nr Windsor, she was portly, but was flexible enough to do the splints which was more then I could do!  It does not make my blood boil, but I do feel sorry when some feel frustrated at not being able to loose it.  After all if you are mucking out, bringing horses in &amp; out, etc you would think there were enough calories being burned off.  I see a lot of larger ladies eventing &amp; some ride better then others, but the same can be said of everyone.  I think it is far more concerning to see people who can not control their hands &amp; are forever jabbing the horse in the mouth.


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## JM07 (27 September 2007)

horses aren't made of glass...

a good solid 14.2 cob will carry a 14 st person.....

the way horses have been treated/portrayed, over the last 20 yrs is IMHO, over the top... they are over pampered, kosseted, wrapped up in cotton wool, and treated as if they would melt/break/die/suffer some terrible trauma if they were left un-rugged 24/7/365 anything less is "cruel"....


how things have turned around.....if a cob/horse/pony is up to weigt...then it can carry a good weight.....


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## kerilli (28 September 2007)

Kerilli, you must remember in the "old days" when we had to carry 11st 11 at advanced, and all the reasons why that rule went out the window. Dead weight is not great for horses; you see overweight riders that ride beautifully in balance, and lightweight riders that don't, but there is definitely a point where your size and type of horse must suit not only your weight but the level you ride at. 

oh nicky, i know... i did 3 days when we still had to weigh in afterwards. never needed to carry lead though... 
	
	
		
		
	


	




i managed to convince myself that i had a very heavy saddle...


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## bensababy (28 September 2007)

QR  - I went to a show a few years ago - saw a very large woman - attempting to get on a 14hh Cob x (quite streamline build  - not carrying alot of meat on it),this woman must have been a good 18-20stone... her friends had to blind fold this poor pony so she could get on as it was having none of it, i actually went and spoke to the Secretary and they banned her from the show ground and contacted the RSPCA. That poor horse was buckling under her weight and IMO was a cruelty case.


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## Stella (28 September 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
btw i do think there is a horse welfare angle to this, it isn't just me being fattist! 

[/ QUOTE ] I don't believe you, I think you are being 'fattist'. Just what makes you the expert on this? Your comments are arrogant, patronising and, well .. lets just hope your boiling blood catches you in the arse one day!


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## conniegirl (28 September 2007)

well im overweight by about 2 stone, possibly 3 depending on what charts you use. however weight charts are totaly inacurate now. My weight problem is due to PCOS and no matter what i do i cannot loose weigh so i no longer try.
 And to be honest id rather be overweight then underweight.
My 14hh connemara carries me perfectly and often sees fit to bugger off at a gallop up a hill.
Ive also ridden 13.2hh shp for someone else, now i wouldnt do it as an everyday thing but the pony was out on a hack and scaring the child rider so i swapped. The pony didnt even bat an eyelid at my added weight (far more that a 13.2 is supposedly able to carry) and continued to play up, jog and generaly be a prat all the way home.

Also its not about how tall the horse is its about the bone, how much bone and the quality of the bone.
Arabs have very very dense bone so are capable of carrying more then the amount of bone would say they could. 
Also looking fat and actual weight dont go hand in hand. I know of one lady who weighs less then me however she carries it all round her middle and looks very large. i carry the weight better and look nowhere near my weight. (and yes if you want proof of how size is decieveing i'll pm pics to people.


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## mandyl (28 September 2007)

i have an ex racehorse which ive known and ridden for 7 yrs of his ten yrs of life. i was heavier than all the lads but he always carried me up the gallops everyday with no problem whatsoever. i now have him and he has never struggled with me iam overweight but im told i ride light. ive always worried about my weight and love him to bits and do whats best for him. i cant believe someone started this post its horrible. but good on everyone whos stuck up for us bigger riders


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## xfeex (28 September 2007)

goodness what a post, I have no problems with larger riders. 

I think most people are sensible enough to ride a horse can carry them. If they know they are to heavy than no thats not fair

My OH is 6ft and weighs around 12/13 stone, he rides my 14.2 pony no problem because he rides so lightly. used to jump her no problem too.


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## Skhosu (28 September 2007)

I have only ever seen one person too large for their horse, and it was a 14hh old looking arab/tb type, it actually fell after a jump due to her being too heavy. It really wasn't on, haevn't seen her since but in that case, yes. IF the horse is happy, no.


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## Fantasy_World (28 September 2007)

I believed that I had to add to this thread as I am what am considered by society and the weight for height/frame guidelines as being overweight.
Originally I gave Kerilli the benefit of the doubt about her being anti fat after reading her original post about overweight riders competing. However after trawling through 10 pages of responses in order to make sure I had read it all correctly ( in case someone tried to confuse my point in saying I had not) I can agree with several posters in that the op is indeed a 'fattist' in her attitude towards larger riders.
I could quote many replies to back up this claim but can't be bothered....... goes off and plonks her fat arse on the sofa for a wee while because that is all I'm supposed to do apparently lol.
Look back and find that comment (not aimed at me personally) but it was said about fat people check and you will see it post re #2374656 posted 18.13 27th September
What comment made me laugh was the reply to Shantor who admitted to being 12 ½ stone and riding out an 18h horse.
I don't have a problem. you're fine on your 18hander, if you'd said you have a 13 hander I might be a little concerned. simple.
Now 13 hander could actually include many breeds of ponies many of which are native types and typical weight carriers.
13 hander could include the following types and their crosses for instance connemara, dales, fells, Exmoor, highland, new forest and welsh section c.
I think therefore before making such a generalised statement about the weight carrying ability of a certain size of a horse/pony it would be prudent to firstly research the breeds which may fit into the bracket you are generalising about.
For instance the highland pony is able to carry far greater weights than 12 ½ stone which was being used as an example of concern aboard a 13 hands approx pony.
Perhaps reading information contained on the following websites may prove useful
http://www.highland-pony.demon.co.uk/hp.htm#usenow
and http://www.highlandponyenthusiasts.co.uk/highlandpony.htm

Imo weight is not an issue aboard a horse since many horses/ponies can carry more than the average weight of a rider as dead weight i.e. packs/loads which can contain anything and in the case of the highland ponies deers weighing up to 16stone were carried by these ponies over extremes of terrains.
However when that weight is a moving force aboard a horse/pony and one whose weight may not be as evenly spread along a ponys/horses back as say a well secured load then the weight could cause a level of discomfort to the animal imo.
If the moving force is being created by a heavy, unbalanced and very inexperienced rider and that person is riding a pony/horse which is carrying perhaps near to the limit of its capabilities then yes there would be a cause of concern for both parties really.
The original question and thread title was do fat riders make your blood boil?
My answer would be simply no and not least because if my blood was to literally boil I would in a sense be unable to answer the question as I would be dead.
As for the rest of the original post that accompanied the title thread, no Kerilli I do not think that the seriously overweight should be prevented from taking part in competition whatever the level may be. 
Personally I have no problems with an overweight rider competing on a horse/pony except under the following circumstances:
The horse/pony is not suitably experienced at that particular level it is competing at and is showing due signs of stress and possibly making forced errors as a result.
That comment also applies to experience/ability of the rider as well. 
However the final say should lie with the rider and the owner of the horse to commit to them taking part. If the owner is happy with the riders suitability to the horse/pony then it is nobody elses business in my honest opinion. The only exception to my reasoning is when there are genuine grounds of concern for the welfare of the horse should intervention possibly take place. This intervention though should be conducted by a suitably qualified equine vet who should perform a thorough examination to ascertain whether any undue stress has been placed upon the animal and any injury (ies) have occurred or to discover if the horse is suffering in any way. If this examination reveals any injuries that could cause the animal discomfort or that the horse is suffering stress/exhaustion then the horse should be retired from that competition if deemed in the interest of the horse. Advice should be given to both the owner and rider and IF weight was deemed an issue then the horse's owner should consider whether the rider is suited to that particular horse.

Caroline


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