# We are getting a spaniel.



## Clodagh (27 November 2017)

Mad, quite mad. Having given up having terriers and progressed to colour by numbers labradors we are regressing hugely and getting a springer.
Coming home end of January, a liver and white bitch. Fairly sensible (or well trained) parents, having seen them work we were impressed. 
It will be a real learning curve but the breeder is happy to train us to train it. We want her for dogging in and beating and will not be focussing on retreiving at all.


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## Auslander (27 November 2017)

Excellent choice! My family have always had welsh springers, and they are the funniest, loveliest breed!

Lock away your pants and socks - all of ours have loved retrieving, and if they didn't get to retrieve as part of their job, they were very focused on retrieving stuff that they didn't have to. Mostly underwear, as it's the perfect size and squishiness - and always as a present for people who knocked on the door!


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## PapaverFollis (27 November 2017)

When I visit other people's houses I am always disconcerted to find that they store stuff below shoulder height and not behind cupboard doors. :lol: Spaniels help keep you tidy. :lol:

They are the best dogs though.  Excellent choice.


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## Moobli (27 November 2017)

Exciting news!  Look forward to photos and lots of hilarious tales when she comes home.


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## texas (27 November 2017)

oh exciting! Spaniels are my favourite.


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## pippixox (27 November 2017)

any spaniels I know fir into  catergories: 
1: super well behaved working dogs
2. pretend to be super well behaved but if they get bored may just go off for a few hours entertainment (aka my friends spaniel at the farm)
or... complete nutters with no hearing who will come back when they feel like it (funnily enough 2 I know owned by someone who runs dog agility and training classes!!!)


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## Alec Swan (27 November 2017)

Clodagh said:



			.. . We want her for dogging in and beating and will not be focussing on retreiving at all.
		
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With Springers (or any spaniels,  for that matter),  dogging-in is just about the quickest route to having a wild dog.  The temptation is for the dog to move away from the 25 yard range limit,  either by handler error or the dog taking a hold.

I agree with you though regarding restricting the retrieving aspect because again,  and if it's your first spaniel,  focussing on the primary job for spaniels,  hunting,  is the better way.

After 50 years of spaniels,  I _try_ never to allow the dog any further than 25 yards,  not in work,  training or general exercise.  A dog which is allowed to exercise at 100 yards will very soon be hunting at that range.

Alec.


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## Cinnamontoast (27 November 2017)

pippixox said:



			any spaniels I know fir into  catergories: 
1: super well behaved working dogs
2. pretend to be super well behaved but if they get bored may just go off for a few hours entertainment (aka my friends spaniel at the farm)
or... complete nutters with no hearing who will come back when they feel like it (funnily enough 2 I know owned by someone who runs dog agility and training classes!!!)
		
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1.This is Brig
2. This is Bear 
3. This is Zak

The latter two live to retrieve. It's all they want to do. Play to the dog's strengths. 






Have fun!


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## Chiffy (28 November 2017)

Good luck Clodagh. I shall watch with interest. At least she should have plenty to keep her occupied. Although I like an active dog, I find spaniels on the whole a bit too wriggly and hyper.
Thistle has one that she seems to have made a great job of though.


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## Clodagh (28 November 2017)

Alec - you are a wet blanket! You told me labradors must not dog in, now spaniels mustn't. What on earth should we get? I do hear collies are good.

Went to a big shoot yesterday and watching the spaniels was a delight. The gun's ones were completely wild (so were their labs). OH was shooting so I was on the peg with him and with 10 guns with dogs only ours and the shoot owners were not on leads. The beaters dogs were turning on the whistle and working like trojans. Feel quite positive about it.


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## Chiffy (28 November 2017)

Clodagh, did you watch Mary Berry visiting Highclere Castle last week. There is a big shoot there, quite a few gamekeepers etc. The majority of gundogs were spaniels which surprised me. Great gang of them allowed about the house too!


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## Alec Swan (28 November 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Alec - you are a wet blanket! You told me labradors must not dog in, now spaniels mustn't. What on earth should we get? I do hear collies are good.

.. 

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All that I've ever said is that dogging in,  regardless of breed or type,  is perhaps the quickest way for a dog to become out of control and that's a dog of any breed or type.

Of course spaniels can be used for dogging in,  and it can be a hugely positive aspect of training when the dog is hunting under the handler and staying within shot _ that isn't really 'dogging-in' though._  Driving wandering game home is mostly done over open stubble fields in the autumn when released birds are given to finding fresh woods and pastures new and a great many birds can be lost in that way,  never to return.  Unless the 'keeper has all day and nothing better to do,  then large areas often need to be covered with dogs ranging far and wide,  and a spaniel hunting at 25 yards wouldn't be of much use.  Some of the 'keepers round here keep a dog for just that purpose,  they wouldn't dare take the bloody thing out on a shoot day!

Your dog,  your choice. 

Alec.


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## Clodagh (28 November 2017)

Chiffy said:



			Good luck Clodagh. I shall watch with interest. At least she should have plenty to keep her occupied. Although I like an active dog, I find spaniels on the whole a bit too wriggly and hyper.
Thistle has one that she seems to have made a great job of though.
		
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I strongly hope that ours will not be as mad as Thistles! I hope, as she will have a job and be with us all the time she won't be too difficult. Part of me thinks she can't be too much more hyper than a trialling type lab. 
If she fits in the cab she can be OHs tractor dog, he misses having one now we don't have a Border Terrier. We dare not let the grannies walk her, they can't do too much harm with a lab!


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## TheresaW (28 November 2017)

I had to read up on what dogging in was. From what Ive read, spaniels are the dog of choice, although apparently collies should be good, but arent a dog of choice?


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## Clodagh (28 November 2017)

TheresaW said:



			I had to read up on what dogging in was. From what I&#8217;ve read, spaniels are the dog of choice, although apparently collies &#8220;should&#8221; be good, but aren&#8217;t a dog of choice?
		
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Be careful how you Google! I will not be off to Hatfield Forest at dusk. &#55357;&#56832;. Mum's collie is good at it, as they have no desire to pick up the poults they round them up pretty well. Sadly she is very gun-shy so no going out on a shoot day.


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## TheresaW (28 November 2017)

I was expecting all sorts to come up, but first answer was a hunting site, so got lucky, ha ha!

Although I have no over interest in shooting, Aled would have been crap too. I cant even take him up horses right now, as guns going off in distance, and he wont get out of the car.

Does this mean youre not getting the new lab?


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## Clodagh (28 November 2017)

TheresaW said:



			Does this mean you&#8217;re not getting the new lab?
		
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Very sadly she has been postponed. Luckily the bitch hadn't come into season yet so I wasn't being too much of a time waster. Luckily breeder is having another litter next year from a sister so I can hopefully have one then. Tawny is doing all our dogging in and now picking up three times a week and it is just not fair, so we need the spaniel more right now.


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## Clodagh (28 November 2017)

Chiffy said:



			Clodagh, did you watch Mary Berry visiting Highclere Castle last week. There is a big shoot there, quite a few gamekeepers etc. The majority of gundogs were spaniels which surprised me. Great gang of them allowed about the house too!
		
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I didn't see it but OH did. He said it was great, and the spaniels were very well behaved.
Ours are all house dogs, luckily we have a gate between the farm half and the house half!


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## maisie06 (28 November 2017)

Excellent choice! Even though I am only on my first Spaniel I'm hooked! I was really really lucky to be given my working cocker as he was last of litter and breeder still had him at 14 weeks of age.

I was told I was "mad" by quite a few people and that working cockers were mad, hyper, impossible and so on.... well little Billy is turning into a very nice little dog indeed, once we gave up "village hall" style training and found a good gundog trainer who trials Springers he started to come on leaps and bounds, he's a good alrounder, hunts well, and his retrieving is great - he's happily picking up game and is not fussy what he picks up.

I have found the whole Spaniel experience to be great, and like you say watching them work is a real joy - hopefully we will go out next season and do some beating and picking up too, I want to spend this year just getting his stop near as perfect as possible!!

Good luck and we want to see lots and lots of pics!


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## Cinnamontoast (28 November 2017)

Is it a pup, Clodagh?


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## Clodagh (29 November 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			Is it a pup, Clodagh?
		
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It is. It is about 3 days old at the moment.


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## Auslander (29 November 2017)

I'm jealous. I love spangle puppies!

They don't seem to mature very quickly. This is my parents 4 year old, bred in the purple, Crufts attending, highly trained professional... err, buffoon. You will come to dread that wild eyed look...


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## Alec Swan (29 November 2017)

maisie06 said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..

I was told I was "mad" by quite a few people and that working cockers were mad, hyper, impossible and so on.... well little Billy is turning into a very nice little dog indeed, once we gave up "village hall" style training and found a good gundog trainer who trials Springers he started to come on leaps and bounds, he's a good alrounder, hunts well, and his retrieving is great - he's happily picking up game and is not fussy what he picks up.

&#8230;&#8230;.. !
		
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It sounds like you picked the right pup,  followed exactly the right route,  and are now getting the right results.  Well done you!

Interesting that you say he'll pick up and carry anything.  Cockers are notorious for 'Blinking' their retrieves on certain game and contrary to what we might imagine,  many won't carry Woodcock!  There are those Cockers which seem to take everything so personally! 

Alec.


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## RunToEarth (29 November 2017)

Our spaniels do a lot of dogging in because I don't want the retrievers doing it. I don't think it's as much of an issue as Alec suggests but I suppose that depends on what you want from your dog- I won't ever use our spaniels to retrieve and as far as I am concerned they are bred to hunt so as long as you do have a handle on their hunting range, it's all gravy. 

Dogging in as a training exercise can be fairly handy as I will alternate between dogs with one on the lead - I find with our covers mostly hedge lined there is a danger of the dogs pulling on and working a 3-400m stretch at one go - particularly further into the season as the birds get wiser and there is a danger that they end up chasing birds. 

The temptation I have is to let the dogs pull on through laziness, because I can't be arsed to walk up and I know 9 times out of 10 they will hunt well on to the boundary and recall nicely. It's the odd occasion where a har gets up in front of the younger one where Alec's opinions on wild dogs come into play, because she knows she's enough in front of me to just tow on and ignore me. 

I think you will enjoy having the distinction for the labs as well - my retriever is mostly a peg dog and I don't want to ruin the control I have with her by sending her to do rough work potentially at a longer range where I won't have the control. But watching the spaniels dog in nicely once you've put the hours in is so satisfying.


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## Clodagh (29 November 2017)

RunToEarth said:



			Our spaniels do a lot of dogging in because I don't want the retrievers doing it. I don't think it's as much of an issue as Alec suggests but I suppose that depends on what you want from your dog- I won't ever use our spaniels to retrieve and as far as I am concerned they are bred to hunt so as long as you do have a handle on their hunting range, it's all gravy. 

Dogging in as a training exercise can be fairly handy as I will alternate between dogs with one on the lead - I find with our covers mostly hedge lined there is a danger of the dogs pulling on and working a 3-400m stretch at one go - particularly further into the season as the birds get wiser and there is a danger that they end up chasing birds. 

The temptation I have is to let the dogs pull on through laziness, because I can't be arsed to walk up and I know 9 times out of 10 they will hunt well on to the boundary and recall nicely. It's the odd occasion where a har gets up in front of the younger one where Alec's opinions on wild dogs come into play, because she knows she's enough in front of me to just tow on and ignore me. 

I think you will enjoy having the distinction for the labs as well - my retriever is mostly a peg dog and I don't want to ruin the control I have with her by sending her to do rough work potentially at a longer range where I won't have the control. But watching the spaniels dog in nicely once you've put the hours in is so satisfying.
		
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Exactly the plan.


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## maisie06 (29 November 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			It sounds like you picked the right pup,  followed exactly the right route,  and are now getting the right results.  Well done you!

Interesting that you say he'll pick up and carry anything.  Cockers are notorious for 'Blinking' their retrieves on certain game and contrary to what we might imagine,  many won't carry Woodcock!  There are those Cockers which seem to take everything so personally! 

Alec.
		
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He has picked up woodcock Alec - the day he did that was the day he also did his first off lead retrieve in the pheasant pen with live game running around...I was asked if I would sell him!! Nope no way - he's my sofa pet more than anything else!

I didn't pick him..he kinda picked me, his breeder brought him in the shop I work in looking for a collar and said what he really needed was a family of his own, I said jokingly "I'll have him then" the breeder whom I have known as a customer for years said that would be an ideal solution and she would rather give him to a good home than advertise him to strangers - he came to live with us and the rest is history....although I had said those famous words "no more dogs" just a few weeks earlier!!!

ETA I just asked hubby to bring me a banana from the kitchen - he called the dog and then sent me the banana carried by the Spaniel....I digress...


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## Alec Swan (29 November 2017)

RunToEarth said:



			... I don't think it's as much of an issue as Alec suggests ..

- I find with our covers mostly hedge lined there is a danger of the dogs pulling on and working a 3-400m stretch at one go - particularly further into the season as the birds get wiser and there is a danger that they end up chasing birds. 

.. .
		
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So you don't agree,  and then you reinforce my argument. 

As anyone who's hunted up hedges with spaniels will explain,  when the dog is out of sight,  as it must be,  the temptation for the tyro is to continually stop the dog and call it back.  Very soon,  the dog will tire of our inexperience and we will end up with the dog which I've previously warned about and you've described.

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (29 November 2017)

maisie06 said:



			He has picked up woodcock Alec - the day he did that was the day he also did his first off lead retrieve in the pheasant pen with live game running around...I was asked if I would sell him!! Nope no way - he's my sofa pet more than anything else!

&#8230;&#8230;..

ETA I just asked hubby to bring me a banana from the kitchen - he called the dog and then sent me the banana carried by the Spaniel....I digress...
		
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maisie,  from someone who makes no claims as to their dog handling abilities,  I am beyond impressed with your progress,  and I mean it,  I'm staggered! &#8230;&#8230;.. Strangely,  and not just your dog training,  but you too &#8230;&#8230;.. the world is now a better place for you,  isn't it?

Any chance of pics of the said woofer?

Alec.


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## Karran (29 November 2017)

maisie06 said:



			Excellent choice! Even though I am only on my first Spaniel I'm hooked! I was really really lucky to be given my working cocker as he was last of litter and breeder still had him at 14 weeks of age.

I was told I was "mad" by quite a few people and that working cockers were mad, hyper, impossible and so on...

I have found the whole Spaniel experience to be great, and like you say watching them work is a real joy.

Good luck and we want to see lots and lots of pics!
		
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I am exactly the same! I'd love another cocker! I was told that adopting an 11 month old working cocker with NO training and working fulltime would end in tears and the dog up for another home by 2 different trainers.

But she is the love of my life! A slightly ditzy, scruffy, neurotic, fun loving, happy go lucky comedian.
She will happily spend all day chasing balls or racing about like a loon but then when we get inside she wants nothing more than cuddles on the sofa.

I'd have loved to try gundog training with her as she has a busy nose and is great at finding and retrieving (showing my complete ignorance here!) She also has the point and freeze naturally down! But in London that wasn't an option so we went down the other route to find her a hobby. (Her job that she takes very seriously is to guard my aviary from invading cats and foxes).

I saw another WCS on a rehoming site earlier this week and I'm sitting on my hands very hard!!!


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## Alec Swan (29 November 2017)

Karran said:



			I am exactly the same! I'd love another cocker! I was told that adopting an 11 month old working cocker with NO training and working fulltime would end in tears and the dog up for another home by 2 different trainers.

But she is the love of my life! A slightly ditzy, scruffy, neurotic, fun loving, happy go lucky comedian.
..
		
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Not always,  but every now and then, the right dog ends up with the right owner.  Without any preconceived ideas or having read any books,  it continues to delight me to hear of so many who make a success of their dogs and you and masie are currently at the top of the leader board! :wink3:

The mindset of the working cocker can be testing,  but when we get 'where' they are,  there's little to compare with them,  I've found.

Alec.


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## RunToEarth (29 November 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			So you don't agree,  and then you reinforce my argument. 

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I'm female after all  

Your opening post read as though dogging was a risky career move for a spaniel, I was trying (and failing) to reinforce your point that as long as you're working them within their parameters, it's not really an issue. 

I'm not a perfectionist though - my dogs are my pleasure and not my work and I think the distinction is an important one. I allow myself a margin of error with them and if the spaniel tows off down the boundary hedge or the retriever can't pick one bird on a day it isn't the end of the world. If I were a keeper and my dogs were my tools I suspect the margin for error with them would be a lot less. So my good little dogging in dog is not necessarily your idea of a good little dogging in dog. &#128556;


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## Alec Swan (30 November 2017)

RunToEarth said:



			I'm female after all  &#8230;&#8230;..  &#55357;&#56876;
		
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&#8230;&#8230;.. not at all,  I also failed to understand your points.  We agree that hunting up boundary hedges is a useful exercise for spaniels and we also agree that there are risks attached to a dog getting away from us.  With mature and experienced dogs which know and ignore the limits of range,  that's usually cured by a dose of verbals.  The strong youngster that gets away from us &#8230;. that's a different matter and it would be my argument that there have been some very nice youngsters ruined by being used for dogging in rather than it being a training exercise.

As for accepting our dogs and their abilities and/or levels of training,  we all get failures and as you say,  it's rarely the end of the world. 

Alec.


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## Moobli (30 November 2017)

I am finding all the spaniel training talk very interesting.  I have limited experience with spaniels - mostly as search dogs for the police but as I live on a grouse moor shooting estate I seem them frequently on shoot days.  They always seem such a fun breed to train - very enthusiastic.


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## maisie06 (30 November 2017)

They are incredibly enthusiastic - about everything!...as I say I have my first Spaniel and he has been much much easier than the terriers I have always had in the past, This is my first foray into the world of gundogs although I have always enjoyed watching them.

I liken my Cocker very much to my dear old Welsh Cob - They have a brain, and they know it so you have to train them to work for you and that the fun always comes from your direction or they go self employed very quickly, Cockers more so than Springers. I think I have been lucky with mine in the fact that I have found a good trainer and I have lovely places to walk and carry on with that training, we still make rookie mistakes, like ermmmm I need to read my dog more quickly!! But we are getting there...keeping his brain active is the best way to tire him out and me! I once heard if you would like a dog trained in 6 weeks buy a Lab, if you like a challenge get a Spaniel! 

And for Alec - these are a couple of pics taken in the summer my more recent ones are on my phone and I can't find the cable at the mo!!

not bad for a freebie!!


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## Clodagh (30 November 2017)

RunToEarth said:



			Your opening post read as though dogging was a risky career move for a spaniel, I was trying (and failing) to reinforce your point that as long as you're working them within their parameters, it's not really an issue.
		
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That is how I read it, too. It hasn't done my lab any harm being used endlessly for dogging in, but I would prefer not too. She will still be used to do the big fields when the pheasants are older, when you just want a dog at a gallop up their bum to get them up in the air and back home again. She also rips and bruises badly when working in heavy cover so again hopefully the spanner will have a better coat. Tawny is so trials bred she doesn't even have a proper double coat, but has a really short thin effort like a dobermann. She would last 30 seconds out wildfowling!

My dogs are both my pleasure and my work and I now actually get paid to go and work them - can it get any better! As it stands now we cannot use Tawny to dog in for a couple of days before a shoot day in case she is injured, which makes life difficult, so a spanner should be freeing her up to go and earn her keep.


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## Clodagh (30 November 2017)

maisie06 your dog is absolutely gorgeous - I am sure he should be far too pretty to work, but he looks and sounds like a cracker at that too. Lucky both of you.


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## Cinnamontoast (30 November 2017)

Clodagh said:



			It is. It is about 3 days old at the moment. 

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Omg, jealous! I'm puppy bloody currently, but don't envy you the toilet training in the dead of winter! 



Auslander said:



			I'm jealous. I love spangle puppies!

They don't seem to mature very quickly. This is my parents 4 year old, bred in the purple, Crufts attending, highly trained professional... err, buffoon. You will come to dread that wild eyed look...






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Dear God, I get this a lot! Wild zoomies upstairs because I was changing the bed. Mental, frankly, although both currently curled up on a lap each, quietly waiting for the 9 o'clock pig ear.


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## Clodagh (30 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			I'm jealous. I love spangle puppies!

They don't seem to mature very quickly. This is my parents 4 year old, bred in the purple, Crufts attending, highly trained professional... err, buffoon. You will come to dread that wild eyed look...






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If he was a horse you would sit very quietly until he calmed down!


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## Moobli (30 November 2017)

maisie - your spaniel is beautiful!  Fab photos too.


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## maisie06 (30 November 2017)

Trying to change a bed in a house where a spaniel is residing is futile!!! Hopefully taking the boy beating soon!!!


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## Auslander (1 December 2017)

Clodagh said:



			If he was a horse you would sit very quietly until he calmed down!
		
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Or stick your feet forward, get a good hold of the neck strap, and send the little beggar off in a spanking trot with its nose in its chest!


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## Clodagh (2 December 2017)

Auslander said:



			Or stick your feet forward, get a good hold of the neck strap, and send the little beggar off in a spanking trot with its nose in its chest!
		
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Absolutely. 
I am paying a lot more attention to the spaniels out shooting, there were some cracking ones today. A little cocker came past me after a rabbit but when he got whistled he left it and went straight back into the line. The rabbit had mixy, poor thing, but was still pretty lively. I sent Tawny for it and knocked it on the head.
The breeder will keep our pup until she is 11 weeks as we are away for a few days in early Feb. The Grannies and children cannot do housetraining, it would not be fair (on the pup).
We need to think of a name. I like Feather. I think she is going to be black and white, we have asked for the smallest and slowest starter spanner!.


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## Auslander (2 December 2017)

Clodagh said:



			We need to think of a name. I like Feather. I think she is going to be black and white, we have asked for the smallest and slowest starter spanner!.
		
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I knew a working springer called Bustle. It suited her perfectly!


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## Clodagh (2 December 2017)

Auslander said:



			I knew a working springer called Bustle. It suited her perfectly!
		
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That is a good one.


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## Cinnamontoast (2 December 2017)

We choose one syllable names, hard letter I need the end for ease of calling. I like Feather tho, makes a change from the millions of Ferns on the springer Facebook page.


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## Clodagh (3 December 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			We choose one syllable names, hard letter I need the end for ease of calling. I like Feather tho, makes a change from the millions of Ferns on the springer Facebook page.
		
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OK...it is going to be 'Smut'. Like you, CT, OH wanted a one syllable name, it must not have a similar starting constanant to the labs as I like to sit there with all my ducks in a row and send them by name. It might sound a bit like 'Sit' or 'Stop' to a dog but I expect will be saying that a lot, too.  . I have long wanted a dog called 'Smut' as family friends had a springer called that when I was a child. It is actually going to be named after the black bits that filled your house when they burnt the stubble, but I like it's other connotation, too.

I still like Feather, may pencil that in for a future lab!


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## Cinnamontoast (3 December 2017)

That's very cute! Looking forward to pictures!


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