# Dealing with a horse that plants and won't go forward



## Michen (9 August 2015)

So my lovely new mare really is lovely, but I did uncover a bit of history about her from the owner before her last one (which I really wish I had never found out quite frankly!) and saw some of the mentioned behaviour for the first time a bit today/yesterday. 

The lady I bought her off had her six months and is a professional rider. It probably all sounds a little sinister but the girl she bought her off (who had her for 6 years from the age of one) had quite a few issues behaviourly which included rearing occasionally when she really didn't want to do something (usually spooking one end of the school or something similar and silly) and generally planting herself when she felt the need. I do not believe she has displayed this behaviour in last home, but like I say, they were professionals. I have been told she was fine with them so wouldn't surprise me if she was testing them. I completely trust the people I bought her from. I am no professional rider, but I like this mare and am determined to learn to ride her. To be fair to her she hasn't been an ounce out of line in the last two weeks until yesterday. 

I took her for an hours hack and then asked her to walk down to the school. She planted. When I asked her to move forward she hopped slightly in the air. Now knowing what I know, I bottled it a bit and didn't want to push the issue an escalate it. To be fair, I wish I'd never asked her to go down to the school as it was poor judgment on my part given it was hot, she was bothered with flies and she had been foot perfect on our first proper hack alone- should have left it at that. So I got off, she still planted. Literally would not move forward where I wanted her to go- only back to her stable.  Got a lunge line and every time she stepped back I put her on a small circle in trot. Didn't work. Eventually managed to get her to move by moving her from side to side, walked down to the school- hopped on for a few minutes and went back. All fine. 

Today on a fun ride, first outing she was surprisingly excellent. She exceeded all expectations, not getting fizzy in the slightest even when 15 horses galloped straight past her with kids screaming and shouting on board. Rather impressive for a spooky/sharp mare and I was really chuffed with how genuine she was about it all. 

However she did stop and plant a few times, once at something she was spooking at (we got a lead from our friend and her horse) and another time when I asked her to leave the horse she was with whilst they took the route for the line of jumps. This mare quite literally goes dead to the leg and whip when this happens. I didn't push it on this occasion but just followed our friend instead. However I'm obviously aware that this behaviour needs dealing with. My intention for the end of today was just to survive and have a nice time to be honest! 

Her owner before last says there is zero point smacking her, kicking her etc she is completely dead to it and it will cause her to go up. 

So what to do with this behaviour if I can't send her forward, bearing in mind I am reluctant to risk her going up because quite frankly it'll scare the living day lights out of me. 

I'm making her sound like a horror- she's really not- I could not have been more pleased with how she reacted to all the tests in the book today with horses galloping off in front/along side etc and she kept herself together at all times. I am really chuffed with her in general.  If I hadn't know that she has gone up in the past Id probably be feeling a lot more confident about the situation- but hey ho I know what I know! 

Any thoughts? We have a lesson on weds so will obviously be discussing with my instructor but I'm sure some of you have dealt with similar before and may have some good ideas.


----------



## PorkChop (9 August 2015)

My first thought is to ask the professional who owned her before you how she/he dealt with it.

It is a horrible feeling when they are completely dead to the leg/whip aid, but I think you dealt with it in a sensible way.

There is no such thing as a perfect horse and I suspect you might by worrying about what she might do, this is the hard bit, the unknown if you like.

I would set her up to succeed until you get to know her better, don't put her in a situation that might push the boundaries just yet.

She sounds lovely btw


----------



## Michen (9 August 2015)

Sorry where i said testing them- i meant testing me!


----------



## Michen (9 August 2015)

Thanks LJR, edited the above post to say they did not experience this behaviour. It wouldn't surprise me if she is pushing because she senses I am weaker than the people who have been riding her the last six months.

She is lovely, I am very pleased with her after today. I literally froze in fear when those horses were coming past, even my friends schoolmaster was going a bit nuts but she just stood and watched. What a babe! 



LJR said:



			My first thought is to ask the professional who owned her before you how she/he dealt with it.

It is a horrible feeling when they are completely dead to the leg/whip aid, but I think you dealt with it in a sensible way.

There is no such thing as a perfect horse and I suspect you might by worrying about what she might do, this is the hard bit, the unknown if you like.

I would set her up to succeed until you get to know her better, don't put her in a situation that might push the boundaries just yet.

She sounds lovely btw 

Click to expand...


----------



## milliepops (9 August 2015)

I have had one similar, and it's now no longer a problem. It was very very tedious, and the horse sounds pretty similar, in that no amount of 'bullying' (in the nicest way) would get the horse to budge. It wasn't ever going to work, and it would cause the same effect, i.e. go up. I'm pretty used to horses that just need showing the right way, ones where if you have a quick enough reaction you can either nip a nap in the bud or avoid it in the first place, but this time it was totally different.  If the horse's adrenalin went up for any reason, that was it, and nothing would get through.

I actually ended up getting some help from someone else because I was at my wits end.  The person I got out was completely different to what I'm used to, almost OTT in her level of patience.  She would take the horse out for me because I didn't have time to do it properly.  Her approach was to not let the adrenalin get up in the first place, and then to wait it out.  I was getting too emotional and panicking that I'd never sort the problem out.
She used the phrase 'look for an open door' because the horse would shut down, once planted, so you had to search for the direction that would get us moving again. That might not be the place I had originally intended, but we just had to get un-stuck.

I will PM you in a bit if it will help, but there is a way through that kind of thing, and there are some horses that you can't get through to by 'insisting' that they go forward. I feel that the horse I had is cured now, but it required a lot of patience and keeping the faith


----------



## Tern (9 August 2015)

The important thing with a planting horse is to make sure its feet keep moving in any direction except backwards. if this means bending her head one side and making her move sideways until she gives up then so be it. If she won't go sideways then i'd get a professional to school her out of this.


----------



## Michen (9 August 2015)

Thanks milliepops that would be fab. I really do like this mare, there's something genuine about her despite this behaviour. She is completely NOT what I should have bought given my confidence is rock bottom at the moment (no particularly reason for it- bit bizarre) but I think she will be fab for me if I learn to ride her properly. Had two instructors out and both have really, really liked her so hopefully I'll manage to work out the kinks!





milliepops said:



			I have had one similar, and it's now no longer a problem. It was very very tedious, and the horse sounds pretty similar, in that no amount of 'bullying' (in the nicest way) would get the horse to budge. It wasn't ever going to work, and it would cause the same effect, i.e. go up. I'm pretty used to horses that just need showing the right way, ones where if you have a quick enough reaction you can either nip a nap in the bud or avoid it in the first place, but this time it was totally different.  If the horse's adrenalin went up for any reason, that was it, and nothing would get through.

I actually ended up getting some help from someone else because I was at my wits end.  The person I got out was completely different to what I'm used to, almost OTT in her level of patience.  She would take the horse out for me because I didn't have time to do it properly.  Her approach was to not let the adrenalin get up in the first place, and then to wait it out.  I was getting too emotional and panicking that I'd never sort the problem out.
She used the phrase 'look for an open door' because the horse would shut down, once planted, so you had to search for the direction that would get us moving again. That might not be the place I had originally intended, but we just had to get un-stuck.

I will PM you in a bit if it will help, but there is a way through that kind of thing, and there are some horses that you can't get through to by 'insisting' that they go forward. I feel that the horse I had is cured now, but it required a lot of patience and keeping the faith 

Click to expand...


----------



## Michen (9 August 2015)

Tern said:



			The important thing with a planting horse is to make sure its feet keep moving in any direction except backwards. if this means bending her head one side and making her move sideways until she gives up then so be it. If she won't go sideways then i'd get a professional to school her out of this.
		
Click to expand...


We can do sideways- sort of! Trouble is she has only done it once at home and then on this fun ride (and to be fair I didn't try very hard to work her through it on the fun ride- I just didn't want the arguement and wanted to have an enjoyable relaxed time for us both. Hard to have a professional put her in those sorts of situations, though if she starts doing it frequently at home obviously that will be a good route to take. I'm hoping it won't come to that- but I do know this behaviour has been apparent in a past life so I'm keen to nip it in the bud with me or learn to work through it.


----------



## Tern (9 August 2015)

Michen said:



			We can do sideways- sort of! Trouble is she has only done it once at home and then on this fun ride (and to be fair I didn't try very hard to work her through it on the fun ride- I just didn't want the arguement and wanted to have an enjoyable relaxed time for us both. Hard to have a professional put her in those sorts of situations, though if she starts doing it frequently at home obviously that will be a good route to take. I'm hoping it won't come to that- but I do know this behaviour has been apparent in a past life so I'm keen to nip it in the bud with me or learn to work through it.
		
Click to expand...

If you can turn a small circle then do so.

I remember a friend asking for advice about a bolshy horse and a number of people said turn the horse in 10 small tight circles and then carry on. If it does "x" again turn it in 10 small tight circles the other way. I have heard it working for impatient fidgety horses too.

Maybe this would give her the time to relax again and it wouldn't let her rear because the likelyhood is that her head will be touching your leg.


----------



## Michen (9 August 2015)

Thanks for this will give that a go next time. She's a very spooky mare to hack to working very hard to make sure she never gets behind my leg and doing lots of lateral work on the (quiet) roads to keep her brain occupied which helps greatly. Frustrating that as soon as she really doesn't want to do something all the leg in the world won't shift her!



Tern said:



			If you can turn a small circle then do so.

I remember a friend asking for advice about a bolshy horse and a number of people said turn the horse in 10 small tight circles and then carry on. If it does "x" again turn it in 10 small tight circles the other way. I have heard it working for impatient fidgety horses too.

Maybe this would give her the time to relax again and it wouldn't let her rear because the likelyhood is that her head will be touching your leg.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Tobiano (9 August 2015)

Hi  well done with the pleasure ride, that sounds great despite the little issues.  Some good advice here - not something I have ever succeeded in dealing with - but just to say if you are also struggling a bit with confidence, take all steps you can to keep yourself as safe as possible so that you can have that bit more confidence which will transmit to your mare.  I'd suggest a body protector, and an RS-Tor (emergency handle that you hold a the front of the saddle), mark your tack and your own clothing with an emergency number to ring if anyone finds you or the horse without the other (we do this on our local pleasure rides) and take a mobile phone.  then you will be ready for anything!!


----------



## Kezzabell2 (9 August 2015)

My horse was doing this last yr. He was rock solid. U couldn't even turn hus head. I sat on him for 20 mins waiting and nothing worked 

I got a new instructor,natural horsemanship style guy. he told me to ask once with my leg if no reaction within one second to use my whip,  he reared,  so I was to hold on to the neck strap and keep using the whip until he went forward. I sat out a few rears, Bucks and kicks. But within 20 mins I was trotting around without constantly kicking the hell out of him

Yes they will fight to begin with, but it's because they know no better 

In your ponies eyes she has reacted in that way in the past and has been allowed to get away with it, so in her eyes she is doing the right think

To her she is being rewarded when you stop using the whip 

If you don't have the courage to ride her through it, there are plenty of pros that will help, I've had 2 people who were happy to ride. 

But also, make sure it's not a reaction to pain 

Good luck


----------



## tallyho! (9 August 2015)

I constantly battle this! Some days good. some days bad.

I've taken on a members motto and I "don't LET her do that"!!! It's working the best for me so far.... thanks Pearlasinger! (I think!)


----------



## Liane (9 August 2015)

I used to ride a horse that did this, although he wouldn't tend to go up but would reverse at speed if you kicked/smacked him, and would run into things. I took him out one day knowing I was going past something that would make him plant and refuse to go forwards, when he stopped I squeezed with my legs, not enough to make him go backwards but enough to be annoying/slightly uncomfortable for him and then I sat there, he wasn't allowed to go anywhere but forwards and I was prepared to wait all day. The minute his weight felt like he was going to go forwards (even if he didn't move his leg) I took my legs off, patted and praised him, then started again, it did take a while, probably an hour or so, but everything was very calm and he learnt. After this whenever he stopped I would give him a constant squeeze with my legs and he would carry on forward.


----------



## junglefairy (9 August 2015)

I can empathise, I recently bought a mare that displays similar behaviour - planting and rearing if pushed. As with yours, my mare doesn't respond to leg or whip (except with a rear). In this horse's case she's very green and I think it's lack of confidence/napping.

The turning is a good suggestion if they'll do it, mine won't, she really does plant and won't move (except up). If I had all day then maybe I'd just wait it out, but I don't have all day. So instead I do 2 things:

1. Push her forward from the start, e.g. Forward going trot for first few minutes and then be very wary of her backing off the leg and if she does then immediately push her forward;

2. When she still plants despite the efforts at 1 then I give her c.20 secs and if no movement then jump off and lead. Sometimes this requires some turning etc. to get her moving forward, but I think having someone on the ground seems to give her a bit of confidence. I'll get her really going forward then jump back on and continue the ride as normal.

Some people may say you shouldn't get off but my thinking is that I don't want her getting into a habit of stopping and thinking that way, so if I jump off and get her going forward again quickly then I'm encouraging forward thinking.

Anyway this seems to be working and she has improved massively, but I think with a new horse there's also just the element of them learning to trust and respect you which may take a bit longer with an opinionated mare!


----------



## Michen (9 August 2015)

Frustrating, how are you dealing with it?





junglefairy said:



			I can empathise, I recently bought a mare that displays similar behaviour - planting and rearing if pushed. As with yours, my mare doesn't respond to leg or whip (except with a rear).
		
Click to expand...


----------



## junglefairy (9 August 2015)

Just to add once she's going forward I give lots of praise.


----------



## FfionWinnie (9 August 2015)

Set her up to do it and have her on long lines (or get someone really good at long lining to do this for you).  She needs sent forward really strongly and you must win. 

I don't agree any movement is fine, it's not. It has to be the way you said originally. 

The chances are she did try it with the pro and the pro nipped it in the bud so fast she doesn't even remember it. 

There is a technique to riding a napper and don't tell yourself it's a settling in thing it's not and it needs crushed immediately!


----------



## Michen (9 August 2015)

Just not sure how to do this when whipping and leg doesn't work, without getting a rear? Edited to say I dont thinks it is settling in at all- one of the ones on the fun ride was fear. One was I don't want to leave my friend and one was I do NOT want to school when I've just been for a hack. 




FfionWinnie said:



			Set her up to do it and have her on long lines (or get someone really good at long lining to do this for you).  She needs sent forward really strongly and you must win. 

I don't agree any movement is fine, it's not. It has to be the way you said originally. 

The chances are she did try it with the pro and the pro nipped it in the bud so fast she doesn't even remember it. 

There is a technique to riding a napper and don't tell yourself it's a settling in thing it's not and it needs crushed immediately!
		
Click to expand...


----------



## FfionWinnie (9 August 2015)

That's why you start the process with her on the long reins. She can rear and leap about as much as she likes but she will have to go forward. 

Winning a big battle on long reins means she won't put up such a big one under saddle. 

Because you're behind her you can send her forward whatever she tries. 

With my new horse (who I bought from a dealer yard and when I viewed her she stood up and nearly went over then proceeded to buck and nap the entire time she was ridden!) I set up a safe area with scary stuff I knew she wouldn't want to pass. Ie set her up to do it, when she did, I won, it wasn't easy (hat and gloves a must and plenty of time).   I did that a few times before I ever sat on her. 

She has never ever gone up with me. All she does now is stop occasionally, she gets a boot and she goes.  She's only about 6 weeks in to her retraining, ultimately she will not nap at all, that's how confident I am about sorting her. 

A whip whop rope is also good for forcing them forward under saddle. Don't start something you aren't prepared to win tho, if you've any doubts get a pro in.


----------



## laura_nash (9 August 2015)

My cob planted like this in the school and when hacking alone when I first got him, in his case it was definitely a case of "I don't want to" not nerves.  Kicking or whipping, any violence even mild like a wip whop, made him more determined not to move.  He never went up with me, but did when my (former) instructress tried to push him through it.  The solution in his case was noise, if I made a loud noise (e.g. swishing a whip or rattling something) he would shoot forwards and that would get him moving again.

edited because wip whop was ***'d out(!)


----------



## Crazy_cat_lady (9 August 2015)

Not ideal and probably better suggestions on here and also depends on her size/ your ability to get on from the floor but when I got H he wouldn't hack alone as he had been in a riding school so was used to mooching along in the middle of a ride. I just would go a little bit further each time and if he did plant and to be fair to him it only happened a couple of times, I'd get off and lead him for about 100 m just to get him moving along again a d he was Ok again.  Again don't Reccomend it if she's not good to lead or stays planted. Now he's still spooky alone and will stop if he sees something spooky but will go if I push him on. If he's taking the p a bit eg stopping at something he's seen multiple times before or goes to spin he does receive a smack on the bottom so he doesn't start taking advantage. I'd also do quite a bit of trotting when I first started going alone as he had a bit more momentum so I had more time to "catch" him before he fully stopped eg when he fell into walk he got asked to trot or walk briskly.


----------



## Michen (9 August 2015)

Thats a great idea! Actually mighty a go at a plastic bag wrapped round a whip or something and see if that sends her forward, if and when she does it again. 





laura_nash said:



			My cob planted like this in the school and when hacking alone when I first got him, in his case it was definitely a case of "I don't want to" not nerves.  Kicking or whipping, any violence even mild like a wip whop, made him more determined not to move.  He never went up with me, but did when my (former) instructress tried to push him through it.  The solution in his case was noise, if I made a loud noise (e.g. swishing a whip or rattling something) he would shoot forwards and that would get him moving again.

edited because wip whop was ***'d out(!)
		
Click to expand...


----------



## MotherOfChickens (9 August 2015)

agreed, long reining is a good way of sorting out ridden issues-especially napping/planting if you're able to -if she does it under saddle, she'll do it on the long reins.


----------



## Getoutmypockets (9 August 2015)

Haha this sounds like my mare, months we tried in the school and on solo hacks to get through this! She's now fine in school but if she hasn't been out on her own for a while will just stop sometimes. Usually leaving the yard, and a few scary spots on the way. However it's much easier to get moving these days!

Patience is key, as is being prepared! Yes, a rear might happen when you challenge her but hey, it's soon forgotten when going forward! Mine had an 'off' button I swear, I'd exhaust myself with my stick, legs, plastic bag tied in a knot with socks in (make shift whip whop style!) and I'd end up sat there and all of a sudden I got 'I'm bored mum, I'm walking now' 

It's frustrating but repetition and patience paid off, along with an instructor on the ground and I find the patient approach pays off quicker now. We still have the odd day but she will go on quickly now! 

I'd suggest long reining too, they do get over this annoying habit eventually but it has to be persevered at and maintained! 

Congrats though it sounds like you have achieved lots of fun things together already


----------



## Barnacle (9 August 2015)

Have had to deal with a few like this... 

One was (and is) very sensitive in the school and you barely think forward and he's off cantering... But when he'd plant while hacking, that was it for forward. No amount of leg or whip would budge him and he would start backing up, threatening to rear and frequently attempting to buck. I got him through that by turning him in a complete circle once, then asking again. Over and over until he went the way I asked. Took hours the first few times. But he gradually gave in and now he's one of the braver horses. Starting him off positive and forward helped. 

I see some people have mentioned something to this effect and a couple have said they tried this and failed. I had someone else try this on said horse and they couldn't get him to turn at all (he'd turn his head only and bite their foot!) so keep in mind this is probably more to do with how you're asking (you need to use your seat and legs, not just your reins!). 

As for long-reining, great if you have space. Absolutely do not do this if your horse is likely to start napping in a narrow space. She may backup, spin and quite literally could kill you. Even worse if she decides to rear as she backs and topples over. This kind of thing is much more safely tackled from on the horse or in front of it.


----------



## Abby-Lou (10 August 2015)

I had success with a small plastic bottle with a few stones in as soon as plants small rattle to push on.  Just be careful when you introduce it ie try in a school first to gauge reaction.


----------



## Gloi (10 August 2015)

Another vote for work in long reins. You can then send her forward without being worried about her reactions. In my experience once the issue is sorted from the floor it will be better under saddle. I disagree totally with Barnacle about you being safer on top of a rearer, just be sure you are far enough away to keep out of trouble, though why you would be in a narrow space training a problem horse I don't know.


----------



## MotherOfChickens (10 August 2015)

Gloi said:



			Another vote for work in long reins. You can then send her forward without being worried about her reactions. In my experience once the issue is sorted from the floor it will be better under saddle. I disagree totally with Barnacle about you being safer on top of a rearer, just be sure you are far enough away to keep out of trouble, though why you would be in a narrow space training a problem horse I don't know.
		
Click to expand...

quite-you also never stand directly behind a greenie when you are long reining-stand to the inside so you are better placed to get them onto a circle if needs be.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (10 August 2015)

Tern said:



			If you can turn a small circle then do so.

I remember a friend asking for advice about a bolshy horse and a number of people said turn the horse in 10 small tight circles and then carry on. If it does "x" again turn it in 10 small tight circles the other way. I have heard it working for impatient fidgety horses too.

Maybe this would give her the time to relax again and it wouldn't let her rear because the likelyhood is that her head will be touching your leg.
		
Click to expand...

I have known that  work with a nappy horse but your circles have to be really tight, the horse's nose needs to be practically touching your boot.  In fact the mare I had did bite the rider's boot occasionally - just cheeky!

The horse needs to get its confidence from you, which isn't easy when you don't feel super-confident but you have to make the horse believe that you are.

As someone else said -set the horse up to succeed, at least until you know each other better.


----------



## unicornystar (10 August 2015)

Mine did this, I bought him for a £1....he doesn't do it now!

I turned him out 24/7 first of all, let him release some of his angst!!

Then when he started planting did NOTHING and I mean NOTHING, don't touch the reins, don't touch his sides, don't talk, do NOTHING give no reaction at all.

Take a book and a rucksack with you, some food and allow yourself hours and hours and your first hack doing this you must hold to it that you will "win".

Do nothing...just sit, if horse tries to turn round, gently, slowly keep head facing same way.  If it has a paddy and piaffs, again loose reins try to let it just do it's thing, and ignore......if it rears, obviously it's your call, mine tried this too.

I did nothing one day, no reassuring stuff, didn't take whip with me, that didn't work, just sat like a plum, had a ciggy, read a book for 5 minutes, horse relaxed a leg and it was a case of seeing who got bored and caved first!!! It was genuine fear but not terrified!!

Eventually about 30 minutes later he took a step forward, I praised loudly and did nothing else, he planted again, same routine, ignore....etc etc, he then gave me a few steps more, praise praise praise, planted, reared etc etc, again did nothing, sat for a further 15 minutes (which feels a lot longer) and he gave in and happy as you like marched onwards.  

Planted halfway round hack just to test whether I really was going to ignore it and he gave in within seconds!!

He is pretty good now, we have the odd moment but it is so short lived it is no longer an issue.

I don't say this will work with every horse but sometimes you need to not bully but get inside their heads...this approach worked for mine.

At worst, at least get off and walk the rest of the hack so that they don't go back and haven't "won"!!!

Then increase to walking for a bit, getting on walking until they plant and getting off and leading again, this approach worked with a naughty nappy tb that I had!!

Good luck.....

BTW, I found trying to trot and push forward had the opposite effect, we were better waiting and plodding on, then only doing fast work in the places he was already going forward...

Things that didn't work:-

Circling
Booting
Whip
Screaming
Shouting LOL
Whispering
Being nice
Treats
Walking backwards past place of napping
Trotting at speed/cantering
Long reining (he was quite happy I was down on the ground didn't nap once!!!)


----------



## paddy555 (10 August 2015)

If  I had sat there with mine, read a book and had a fag, I would still be sitting there. I don't see any point in rewarding the horse with a rest so it can stand there. 
I immediately turned him round 180 degrees and reined back past the place. To start with it is slow if the horse is not good at reining back and also you need to do it step by step slowly if it is prone to rear. However we took our time and after half a dozen steps back I turned quickly and kicked him on sharply, he planted again so round we went and more steps back and then offered the chance to go forward nicely. We carried on until he gave in. The next time it happened again but gradually it only took a couple of steps back and then he gave in and went on. 
To my mind if he is going to plant then unless it is due to pain, fear or some other acceptable reason, I make the horse do something rather than enjoy itself doing nothing. 
If the horse is poor at reining back then practice on the ground in the school until it can run back 10 or 15 paces with no hesitation. 
A horse that will go in long reins still plants with a rider. The long rein training simply tells you it is not scared to go past something.


----------



## MotherOfChickens (10 August 2015)

paddy555 said:



			A horse that will go in long reins still plants with a rider. The long rein training simply tells you it is not scared to go past something.
		
Click to expand...

not in my experience but then we all have different methods and whatever works, works  Long reining is great for them to learn to go up front alone but then I am pretty confident of my skills longreining-more than my skills at asking a horse with some history of going up, to rein back. If you have a clever youngster, teaching them to rein back (as opposed to say, tackling a gate) at too young an age can lead to problems-I taught my last youngster it to keep his mind busy, then spent the next year not asking for it and trying to get him to not offer it at every opportunity


----------



## Annagain (10 August 2015)

Both of mine have done this to a certain extent for very different reasons and I've therefore dealt with it very differently with both of them. 

M does it when he is genuinely scared - usually of large traffic coming towards him. I turn him round and let them come past us from behind and then turn around again and he's happy to continue. If it's something stationary that's frightened him I let another horse take the lead or I get off and lead him past if we're on our own. He's a bit of a saint and would never use the planting as an opportunity to take the mick, he is very genuine in his reasons for doing it and I wouldn't advocate it with all horses, especially the turning round bit!  

A is taking the p***. When he started to do it not long after I had him, he would plant when hacking alone at every junction where there was a turn for home (he learned the routes very quickly especially as I started with the shortest routes and built up) and I asked him to go the other way. After a couple of battles when I eventually won but it took forever, I went out armed with a schooling whip in each hand and a b****y determined attitude and took a route that meant many turns away from home. He knew and didn't even try it on so I didn't actually have to use it but in my head I was ready to. From that day on he's never tried it with me again and #I don't ride with a whip at all now. He's tried it with a couple of people who have come to look at him to share and the ones who've dealt with it have been the ones who've stayed. 

I imagine with her it's a little bit of both she's probably a bit unsure of her new surroundings and picking up a bit on you if you're nervous so is saying no, as she's learnt in the past it gets her what she wants, which is to get back to somewhere she feels safe or to a friend she feels safe with. I'd try the brave pants (with schooling whips if you think they'll help) and see if she'll take confidence from your new braveness.


----------



## applecart14 (10 August 2015)

Michen said:



			So my lovely new mare really is lovely, but I did uncover a bit of history about her from the owner before her last one (which I really wish I had never found out quite frankly!) and saw some of the mentioned behaviour for the first time a bit today/yesterday. 

The lady I bought her off had her six months and is a professional rider. It probably all sounds a little sinister but the girl she bought her off (who had her for 6 years from the age of one) had quite a few issues behaviourly which included rearing occasionally when she really didn't want to do something (usually spooking one end of the school or something similar and silly) and generally planting herself when she felt the need. I do not believe she has displayed this behaviour in last home, but like I say, they were professionals. I have been told she was fine with them so wouldn't surprise me if she was testing them. I completely trust the people I bought her from. I am no professional rider, but I like this mare and am determined to learn to ride her. To be fair to her she hasn't been an ounce out of line in the last two weeks until yesterday. 

I took her for an hours hack and then asked her to walk down to the school. She planted. When I asked her to move forward she hopped slightly in the air. Now knowing what I know, I bottled it a bit and didn't want to push the issue an escalate it. To be fair, I wish I'd never asked her to go down to the school as it was poor judgment on my part given it was hot, she was bothered with flies and she had been foot perfect on our first proper hack alone- should have left it at that. So I got off, she still planted. Literally would not move forward where I wanted her to go- only back to her stable.  Got a lunge line and every time she stepped back I put her on a small circle in trot. Didn't work. Eventually managed to get her to move by moving her from side to side, walked down to the school- hopped on for a few minutes and went back. All fine. 

Today on a fun ride, first outing she was surprisingly excellent. She exceeded all expectations, not getting fizzy in the slightest even when 15 horses galloped straight past her with kids screaming and shouting on board. Rather impressive for a spooky/sharp mare and I was really chuffed with how genuine she was about it all. 

However she did stop and plant a few times, once at something she was spooking at (we got a lead from our friend and her horse) and another time when I asked her to leave the horse she was with whilst they took the route for the line of jumps. This mare quite literally goes dead to the leg and whip when this happens. I didn't push it on this occasion but just followed our friend instead. However I'm obviously aware that this behaviour needs dealing with. My intention for the end of today was just to survive and have a nice time to be honest! 

Her owner before last says there is zero point smacking her, kicking her etc she is completely dead to it and it will cause her to go up. 

So what to do with this behaviour if I can't send her forward, bearing in mind I am reluctant to risk her going up because quite frankly it'll scare the living day lights out of me. 

I'm making her sound like a horror- she's really not- I could not have been more pleased with how she reacted to all the tests in the book today with horses galloping off in front/along side etc and she kept herself together at all times. I am really chuffed with her in general.  If I hadn't know that she has gone up in the past Id probably be feeling a lot more confident about the situation- but hey ho I know what I know! 

Any thoughts? We have a lesson on weds so will obviously be discussing with my instructor but I'm sure some of you have dealt with similar before and may have some good ideas.
		
Click to expand...

My horse used to plant at the old yard when we used to go past a farm he didn't like as the chickens used to make a noise behind the hedge!  I used to just turn him round in the direction of home and rein back past the farm.  It really does work. The horse faces towards home and doesn't seem to realise he has passed the 'scary' obstacle.  When you have walked past it just turn in the direction you want to go and walk forwards as normal.  Its literally (excuse the pun) reverse pychology.


----------



## be positive (10 August 2015)

To my mind if he is going to plant then unless it is due to pain, fear or some other acceptable reason, I make the horse do something rather than enjoy itself doing nothing. 
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...nd-won-t-go-forward/page4#ML3WVOkuxAGhCmLd.99

Most horses that plant do so out of fear, it may be irrational or something they should not be scared of but at the root of the issue is fear to some degree and it can be very hard to decide at the time it happens what the true reason is, for the OP the horse is new, she is still finding her feet, both the horse and rider, asking a horse with a tendency to rear to rein back is risking not only compounding the rearing but giving another evasion technique.

It is definitely something that can be dealt with in many ways but it does depend on the horse, finding out why it does it and dealing with it in the most effective and safe way available, if they just plant it is not so tricky, if they rear and there is a risk of them going over or slipping then most of us will opt out and find a way through that has less risk to horse and rider. 

I have found long reining helpful, I had a mare come in that would not leave the yard, a couple of day long reining got her going out alone ridden, she then tried it on in the school which took a bit more to sort out,  the root of her behaviour a badly fitting saddle and being ridden by her rather heavy owner, a change of saddle and rider along with some physio and she went off to a hunting home where she is much happier.


----------



## Exploding Chestnuts (10 August 2015)

Speed of reaction, move her legs, make it hard work to stop.


----------



## Michen (10 August 2015)

Thanks all. She has been out hacking on her own and even though spooky and at times really quite worried she hasn't planted. I hacked her out alone the day after she arrived. I do feel that her planting is more related to not wanting to do something rather than fear. She may well have worked through the plants on the fun ride- I just didn't push it. The plant on the way down to the school though was very much no I don't want to do this. 

I think for now I am going to try hard to avoid situations where she may plant whilst we get to know each other a bit better. She's just come into season as well. If and when we next have an issue I think I will try a tight circle as first port of call, I don't like the idea of asking her to back up as I think this will encourage her to go up. 

She had physio today and all good there, she commented on how nicely and evenly muscled she was all over which is obviously a great sign.


----------



## Slightlyconfused (10 August 2015)

Michen said:



			Thats a great idea! Actually mighty a go at a plastic bag wrapped round a whip or something and see if that sends her forward, if and when she does it again.
		
Click to expand...

Google buck brannaman, he uses flags on the end of a schooling whip for his ground work. 
My lad had been backed using his methods and they are a very out of the box way of doing things but it works


----------



## Barnacle (10 August 2015)

Gloi said:



			Another vote for work in long reins. You can then send her forward without being worried about her reactions. In my experience once the issue is sorted from the floor it will be better under saddle. I disagree totally with Barnacle about you being safer on top of a rearer, just be sure you are far enough away to keep out of trouble, though why you would be in a narrow space training a problem horse I don't know.
		
Click to expand...

You have no idea how wide the places this horse naps are... It's not a really bad case that rears at every opportunity.


----------



## Michen (10 August 2015)

Barnacle said:



			You have no idea how wide the places this horse naps are... It's not a really bad case that rears at every opportunity.
		
Click to expand...

She's only done it once at home in 2.5 weeks so have no idea where she may do it again but I would assume if at home the same spot, or maybe in the school spooking at something as a past owner mentioned. 

Im not quite sure I'm skilled enough with long reins to deal with it through this method anyway, as if she is dead to the whip how would I send her forward?! I would assume she will just reverse closer and closer to me or spin


----------



## paddy555 (10 August 2015)

MotherOfChickens said:



			not in my experience but then we all have different methods and whatever works, works  Long reining is great for them to learn to go up front alone but then I am pretty confident of my skills longreining-more than my skills at asking a horse with some history of going up, to rein back. If you have a clever youngster, teaching them to rein back (as opposed to say, tackling a gate) at too young an age can lead to problems-I taught my last youngster it to keep his mind busy, then spent the next year not asking for it and trying to get him to not offer it at every opportunity 

Click to expand...

I totally agree on the benefits of long reining and I take mine out that way for a couple of years until they can be backed.
However what I meant to say was that in this case it appears to be a horse planting for the sake of it. A new horse basically asking the rider "what if I don't go"  as many new horses test their riders. However much it can be persuaded, by someone experienced in long reining, to go the problem is still going to be there with a rider. That is where it is testing the rider and asking  "what if?"


----------



## applecart14 (11 August 2015)

Michen said:



			I don't like the idea of asking her to back up as I think this will encourage her to go up. 

.
		
Click to expand...

There is no reason why this should cause her to rear.  Just make sure that when you ask her you give with the contact as soon as she starts stepping back.  If you squeeze with your legs whilst pulling with your hands this will cause her to rear or it will be more likely to cause her to rear.

By reining back you are 'fighting' the horse but the horse doesn't realise you are doing this.  That's why it makes it so effective.  He still thinks he's winning as he is facing home.  Sometimes you have to deploy tactics like this in order to get the desired result in the short term.  He will soon get fed up of going backwards. Bit like when a horse won't load. Rein it back and after a while it gets so fed up of going backwards its desperate to go forwards again.  Used to have to do this with a horse that refused to go out in the field.  Worked every time.  (the reasons why he didn't want to go in the field were investigated first).


----------



## fidleyspromise (11 August 2015)

Lots of interesting posts here and I'll be trying a few of them out although long reining won't work for me.
The trails we go behind the stables are narrow and up a hill so I'm trying to avoid rearing at all costs and I got off and led last time.


----------



## applecart14 (11 August 2015)

fidleyspromise said:



			Lots of interesting posts here and I'll be trying a few of them out although long reining won't work for me.
The trails we go behind the stables are narrow and up a hill so I'm trying to avoid rearing at all costs and I got off and led last time.
		
Click to expand...

IMHO getting off a horse is just giving it an invite to display bad behaviour even more although I do see where you are coming from if you think your horse would rear at this particular dangerous spot.  I would never get off my horse and he used to spin and plant - it took me about three years once every six or so weeks of perserverance to go down a particular lane - each time having to turn the horse around as I got no where.  The only thing that worked for me was walking backwards and once we'd gone down the lane once on our own each time it was easier and easier to do so till in the end we had no problems at all (other than snorting).  When he had company, either on foot or with other horses he wouldn't bat an eye lid. Just lack of confidence.  From day one at the new yard where I've been for 14 months now I've only had him spin around on three ocassions and I hack out three or four times a week.  Its much quieter with traffic and he started on Magic Calmer about a fortnight before we left the last yard and I am totally convinced it made a difference.


----------



## unicornystar (11 August 2015)

applecart14 said:



			If I had sat there with mine, read a book and had a fag, I would still be sitting there. I don't see any point in rewarding the horse with a rest so it can stand there. 
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...nd-won-t-go-forward/page4#TTR4O03ST2UCjVDV.99.
		
Click to expand...

each to their own.  Tried walking backwards, spinning etc, made a very bad situation and dangerous one far worse, including no self preservation on the rears or the backing up into barbed wire fences.

Having previously taken  on a very nappy thoroughbred, I am in no way a push over nor am I fluffy, but seriously, to some horses it ISNT a reward to stand and do nothing, hardly standing there grazing etc, 

This is the point you have totally missed lol - push push push, just irritates and blows up what can be changed into a non situation, it is the NON reaction either way that got inside my opinionated gelding's head!  

No negative, no positive, simply nothing, to him standing around isn't a reward, he wants to be either eating in a field or on his merry way back to it, standing around in the middle of nowhere makes him think and fortunately for us, pretty much solved the issue.

It appears he got away with it initially and got a good whack here and there no doubt so by being pushed it became an issue, by not reacting it then became a non issue and has gone away, including riding PAST my old yard, where I couldn't even hack him out from let alone ride past it and even past his own field at home where his buddies are, this was unheard of!!


----------



## unicornystar (11 August 2015)

applecart14 said:



			IMHO getting off a horse is just giving it an invite to display bad behaviour even more although I do see where you are coming from if you think your horse would rear at this particular dangerous spot.  I would never get off my horse and he used to spin and plant - it took me about three years once every six or so weeks of perserverance to go down a particular lane - each time having to turn the horse around as I got no where.  The only thing that worked for me was walking backwards and once we'd gone down the lane once on our own each time it was easier and easier to do so till in the end we had no problems at all (other than snorting).  When he had company, either on foot or with other horses he wouldn't bat an eye lid. Just lack of confidence.  From day one at the new yard where I've been for 14 months now I've only had him spin around on three ocassions and I hack out three or four times a week.  Its much quieter with traffic and he started on Magic Calmer about a fortnight before we left the last yard and I am totally convinced it made a difference.
		
Click to expand...

I am not a "carrot stick person" however, there are many professionals who wholeheartedly recommend, again with no reaction, hopping off and leading and then mounting again, fast, neat and no talking, to the point the horse forgets after a while why it was even napping.  I think many people struggle to get on and off whilst out, a basic principle of being able bodied enough to remount in an emergency situation!  I see your point with some horses but a lot are easier on the ground and don't nap and rear once you are off and leading in front!


----------



## Charmin (11 August 2015)

I'm another one who sits and waits it out. My incredibly stubborn homebred had me at wits end planting. Someone on the floor, shouting, flapping, kicking, turning circles or trying to 'unstick' feet resulted in her going up, kicking out or backing up swiftly. So instead stood with leg on and loose reins and a book. Corrected if she tried to turn around or back up. Just stayed incredibly calm so she had no excuse to lash out or go up.

She gave up quite quickly and wandered on, then she got praised and we got on with it. I'm all for choosing your battles and 'winning' etc but sometimes the least fuss approach can be the most effective.

With nappy horses always do circular routes as well, don't turn back on yourself. You want them to be constantly thinking forwards, not guessing when they're going to be turning for home.

As for rewarding them for their bad behaviour, not sure any horse wants to be stood not eating for hours on end. It's surprising how quickly they get the idea.


----------



## Michen (11 August 2015)

Think I'll be placing an Amazon order! It will be interesting to see if she does it on the way down to school tomorrow for my lesson. Since she planted last week she has also decided that particular route is scarey (it's the path we take to her field as well) and she took a bit of persuasion to walk through it even on the lead rope yesterday. Not quite sure what she's playing at! 





Charmin said:



			I'm another one who sits and waits it out. My incredibly stubborn homebred had me at wits end planting. Someone on the floor, shouting, flapping, kicking, turning circles or trying to 'unstick' feet resulted in her going up, kicking out or backing up swiftly. So instead stood with leg on and loose reins and a book. Corrected if she tried to turn around or back up. Just stayed incredibly calm so she had no excuse to lash out or go up.

She gave up quite quickly and wandered on, then she got praised and we got on with it. I'm all for choosing your battles and 'winning' etc but sometimes the least fuss approach can be the most effective.

With nappy horses always do circular routes as well, don't turn back on yourself. You want them to be constantly thinking forwards, not guessing when they're going to be turning for home.

As for rewarding them for their bad behaviour, not sure any horse wants to be stood not eating for hours on end. It's surprising how quickly they get the idea.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## milliepops (11 August 2015)

unicornystar said:



			each to their own.  Tried walking backwards, spinning etc, made a very bad situation and dangerous one far worse, including no self preservation on the rears or the backing up into barbed wire fences.

Having previously taken  on a very nappy thoroughbred, I am in no way a push over nor am I fluffy, but seriously, to some horses it ISNT a reward to stand and do nothing, hardly standing there grazing etc, 

This is the point you have totally missed lol - push push push, just irritates and blows up what can be changed into a non situation, it is the NON reaction either way that got inside my opinionated gelding's head!  

No negative, no positive, simply nothing, to him standing around isn't a reward, he wants to be either eating in a field or on his merry way back to it, standing around in the middle of nowhere makes him think and fortunately for us, pretty much solved the issue.

It appears he got away with it initially and got a good whack here and there no doubt so by being pushed it became an issue, by not reacting it then became a non issue and has gone away, including riding PAST my old yard, where I couldn't even hack him out from let alone ride past it and even past his own field at home where his buddies are, this was unheard of!!
		
Click to expand...

Great post, agree 100%  - each horse is an individual... and some are more individual than others


----------



## Michen (11 August 2015)

Literally just pmed you! 



milliepops said:



			Great post, agree 100%  - each horse is an individual... and some are more individual than others 

Click to expand...


----------



## paddy555 (11 August 2015)

be positive said:



			To my mind if he is going to plant then unless it is due to pain, fear or some other acceptable reason, I make the horse do something rather than enjoy itself doing nothing. 
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...nd-won-t-go-forward/page4#ML3WVOkuxAGhCmLd.99

Most horses that plant do so out of fear, it may be irrational or something they should not be scared of but at the root of the issue is fear to some degree and it can be very hard to decide at the time it happens what the true reason is, for the OP the horse is new, she is still finding her feet, both the horse and rider, asking a horse with a tendency to rear to rein back is risking not only compounding the rearing but giving another evasion technique.

It is definitely something that can be dealt with in many ways but it does depend on the horse, finding out why it does it
		
Click to expand...

I see it as a situation where fear is certainly coming into it pretty quickly and have seen identical situations before. The horse had a history with the earlier owner of planting etc. Not with the pro but it is something she has done before. She initially tries out the new owner when she starts to feel more confident. A game to start with, what will happen if I take the Mick? The reply the horse is looking for is "get on and do it. Don't even think of it, I am the herd leader here". The horse is happy, it has a leader it can trust, all is right with the world.  If the horse doesn't get that she thinks what? Someone has to be the herd leader so that must be me. A few more times of this, the game is over from the horse's POV and the horse starts to scare itself. It is not being taken out for a ride round the spooky lanes by the herd leader. The horse has to be the herd leader and that is a scary place to be. 

I would start on the way down to the school tomorrow, in hand with a headcollar, long rope and lunging whip. I would go along for 3 steps, halt and stand, 2 steps back up, stand and keep repeating this all the way down as slowly as needed. It may take a long time to get to the school but the horse will start to listen to the owner and respond correctly realising the owner is in charge. If she refuses to walk the 2 steps forward I would flick the whip at the ground behind her (never the horse) to encourage the step. If she totally plants then there is nothing to loose by backing up, slowly, one step at a time. That is not going to rile a horse up. Presumably she backed OK when OP tried her out before buying so it should not be something new. 
If a horse couldn't do even that small simple exercise  or reared continually I would either be getting a pro in to help or wondering if she should be going back.


----------



## Michen (11 August 2015)

I already do this with her anyway to some extent pretty much daily to the field. I'm not a fan of horses walking that bit in front of me and not stopping immediately when I stop so whenever she "overtakes" me when I stop she has to walk a few steps back. She's great with it now and stops as soon as I do most of the time.  Led fine to field today with a bit of blowing and eyes popping out of her head somewhat. Whether she would do the same with tack on remains to be seen tomorrow. She hasn't been ridden down to school since she planted as she then went to fun ride the next day, had physio Monday and back to work tomorrow. Will discuss with my instructor who deals with "problem" horses anyway sand see what he says. 

She has definitely come into season over the last five/six days so I wonder if this has something to do with it, not that it's an excuse. Perhaps solution for now is to lead her/long line to school and get on there (mounting step is on the yard, school about three hundred metres down the track) and see how we go. 

It doesn't quite add up as she has improved dramatically out hacking since she arrived. She was ridiculously spooky but now I am really able to keep her held together with leg aids and lateral work when she sees something she's not keen on so she seems to be settling in that respect but trying it on in others. She does back up under saddle when asked. 

Anyway we shall see tomorrow! Will update! Thanks for all the info  




paddy555 said:



			I see it as a situation where fear is certainly coming into it pretty quickly and have seen identical situations before. The horse had a history with the earlier owner of planting etc. Not with the pro but it is something she has done before. She initially tries out the new owner when she starts to feel more confident. A game to start with, what will happen if I take the Mick? The reply the horse is looking for is "get on and do it. Don't even think of it, I am the herd leader here". The horse is happy, it has a leader it can trust, all is right with the world.  If the horse doesn't get that she thinks what? Someone has to be the herd leader so that must be me. A few more times of this, the game is over from the horse's POV and the horse starts to scare itself. It is not being taken out for a ride round the spooky lanes by the herd leader. The horse has to be the herd leader and that is a scary place to be. 

I would start on the way down to the school tomorrow, in hand with a headcollar, long rope and lunging whip. I would go along for 3 steps, halt and stand, 2 steps back up, stand and keep repeating this all the way down as slowly as needed. It may take a long time to get to the school but the horse will start to listen to the owner and respond correctly realising the owner is in charge. If she refuses to walk the 2 steps forward I would flick the whip at the ground behind her (never the horse) to encourage the step. If she totally plants then there is nothing to loose by backing up, slowly, one step at a time. That is not going to rile a horse up. Presumably she backed OK when OP tried her out before buying so it should not be something new. 
If a horse couldn't do even that small simple exercise  or reared continually I would either be getting a pro in to help or wondering if she should be going back.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Michen (12 August 2015)

Had a lesson with instructor today and she napped- which I'm glad about as wanted her to whilst I had back up. It was a bit further down where she'd either go left to field or right to school and was all over within about two minutes, just by using rein and leg. Pleased as it was completely half hearted on her behalf and she was lovely in the school after and really responsive. 

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions, I'm sure we will have a proper plant again at some point but Im pleased at how she was today.


----------



## Boulty (13 August 2015)

Tricky one as it's down to the individual horse and their reasons for doing it.  Current horse used to be very nappy and no amount of leg or other methods to hurry him along would work.  Too much pressure and he'd go back, go sideways or go up.  He liked to try and ram us into objects like fences, hedges and parked cars or we once played a game of chicken with a ditch with a steep drop  (he kept backing up towards it... I got off when he started to put one of his hing feet over the lip of the drop as I had no desire to end up underneath him if he flipped himself...).  Trick with him was finding where his comfort zone was and keeping pushing him a little outside it without asking so much that I ended up with him going into panic mode and making sure I got what I'd asked for in one way or another even if asking in the first place had been a mistake.

His comfort zone was being led.  He'd go past most things into most places with only slight hesitation led so I always had this to fall back on as my safety net  when I blew it.  I didn't see having to get off and lead as him "winning" more as a sign that what I was asking was a bit much at that point and it was a tool to help diffuse the situation and keep everyone safe if the area he'd chosen to nap in wasn't safe for us to have a discussion about it  (eg lots of parked cars about or when he planted on a road with cars coming because there was someone in the hedge or as mentioned above when he was about to take me backwards down a ditch)

Through lots of repetition he very rarely seriously tries to plant now and last time I got off and led it was because I was being extra cautious (there were cows on the path that I had to move and he hates them) rather than because he wouldn't move


Good luck anyhow, sounds lovely in all other ways


----------



## unicornystar (13 August 2015)

Had to laugh, the day I posted my dear gelding was hacking out beautifully then out of nowhere, PLANT...reverse barbed wire, steer in direction I want gently, with fair amount of growl rather than do nothing prefer not to have vets bills.  He stood up a few times, we sat, it was clear we were going nowhere and couldn't sit it out as getting dark...plan B hopped off him for literally a few metres, got back on, absolutely fine.....sometimes it makes no sense to us at all!!!

My days of Mounted Games teams are definitely paying off now I have a 16.3hh lol


----------



## gnubee (13 August 2015)

I think as long as you don't let them win it doesn't matter what you do. Standing and waiting for them to get bored, keeping asking, getting off and leading past, backing up past, turning circles or even getting off and lunging all do the same job of teaching the horse that planting doesn't make life easier . So pick whichever you feel most confident doing and go with it, or mix up 2 or 3 of the techniques to use in different circumstances. Has the planting only started since you became aware that the horse used to have issues? I wonder if you are subconsciously expecting it and therefore causing it. If you think there is a chance of this, stay in situations where you don't think the horse will do it until you know each other better.


----------



## ilvpippa (13 August 2015)

I've recently started my girl on her own; no need for it before as she was in full work so we did more fast work with others than walk hacking. She's no semi retired so I needed to be less reliant on others. 
Started going out with dad on foot- not really needed as she didn't really do anything. She is a fast walker and more apprehensive than spooky. She does stop sometimes if she sees something in the far distance; but I just open my rein & use my stick down the shoulder the first time and she walks or does a little jog. She used to stop & spin and gallop back the yard; but now she's basically retired we experience less and less; I'm sure it's because we now just plod around rather than out any real pressure on her during her hacks. The next step is to start going onto prestwold hall bridle paths on our own - she can be more anxious in fields so will get dad to come with us & bring a lead rope & we can practice gates & take as long as we need. I sit there if she stops and put pressure on with my legs until she goes or I hope off move a few steps & get on. 
I still prefer hacking in company as it is safer but hopefully soon we can skip the roads all together on our own. 
Interestingly have you boxed her up to go hacking? I can take mine to massive fields on her own & she's perfect so different to being at home. We're getting there slowly but surely


----------



## Clodagh (13 August 2015)

I haven't read all replies but wip wops are great things. In my case a lead rope with no clip on, and cut to just the right length to flick them on one side of the neck and then the other.


----------



## Michen (13 August 2015)

Nope started over a week after though it's certainly made me cautious as to how to deal with it and less confident. Judging from her efforts yesterday I think she will be ok, she's a lot more happier in general the last few days having come out of season etc!



gnubee said:



			I think as long as you don't let them win it doesn't matter what you do. Standing and waiting for them to get bored, keeping asking, getting off and leading past, backing up past, turning circles or even getting off and lunging all do the same job of teaching the horse that planting doesn't make life easier . So pick whichever you feel most confident doing and go with it, or mix up 2 or 3 of the techniques to use in different circumstances. Has the planting only started since you became aware that the horse used to have issues? I wonder if you are subconsciously expecting it and therefore causing it. If you think there is a chance of this, stay in situations where you don't think the horse will do it until you know each other better.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## ihatework (13 August 2015)

I've got one that wouldn't be what you would class as nappy generally but every now and again (primarily when just coming into season) can be irrationally sensitive/spooky about things which in the school comes out in excessive spooky tension, but out hacking has shown as a real nap & flight reaction. You cannot bully, smack, kick or anything else in this situation - it just escalates into a battle that won't be won. The thing that works is to stop, drop the rein contact and just pat/talk to her. After a while you can feel the adrenalin levels drop and only then can you negotiate going forwards. Mine is a real genuine work horse, but nothing is perfect and you will just have to figure her out for yourself. All I would say is with mares especially you need to make friends with them and have them on your side. Don't be to quick to reach for the whip, however frustrated you might be!


----------

