# Badminton Grass Roots



## claire_p2001 (7 May 2014)

Is there anywhere that shows live results?  How are the HHO'ers getting on?


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## Twiglet (7 May 2014)

On here: http://www.bdwp.co.uk/bgr/ and here: http://grassroots.badminton-horse.co.uk/index.php/grassroots-day-two-underway/

Not much news on the XC yet other than lots of run outs. 

Lex5201 (or whatever her username is ) did a 31 dressage yesterday and was thrilled with Billy's efforts


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## montanna (7 May 2014)

See here, you can type in Rider's name to see how they got on...

http://www.bdwp.co.uk/bgr/

Also says the below on the website:

The current BE90 Mitsubishi Motors Grassroots dressage leader is 23 year old Oil and Gas Recruitment Consultant, Zoe Symes riding Serendipity IV (known as &#8216;Dippy&#8217. The pair who have come to Badminton from Trowbridge are on an incredible score of 18.3.

The BE100 section of the Mitsubishi Motors Grassroots Championships is currently being jointly lead by two Rachels who finish the day on a very strong mark of =27.8. Rachel Lade is riding Surprise Addition whilst Rachel Holden rides Martel.


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## suzi (7 May 2014)

Star did 27.8 dressage. 

Not heard much on the xc front for the 100 yet and for the 90 have heard nothing from the SJ though believe the XC is about to start? ?


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## Nicnac (7 May 2014)

Rachel Lade has an unassailable lead in the 100 and looks like Georgina Whone 2nd with Rachel Holden 3rd.  Don't think anyone else can catch them as all 3 have finished 3 phases.

Frustrating that 90 SJ results aren't live on bwdp!

I was going to go today if I could have swung a day off but forces conspired against me which was a complete result as M25 was closed clockwise south from dawn and I would have spent morning in my car.


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## SW66 (7 May 2014)

Nicnac said:



			Rachel Lade has an unassailable lead in the 100 and looks like Georgina Whone 2nd with Rachel Holden 3rd.  Don't think anyone else can catch them as all 3 have finished 3 phases.

Frustrating that 90 SJ results aren't live on bwdp!

I was going to go today if I could have swung a day off but forces conspired against me which was a complete result as M25 was closed clockwise south from dawn and I would have spent morning in my car.
		
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Don't think BDWP is very accurate as I know Rachel Holden had a run out on the XC.


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## Nicnac (7 May 2014)

SW66 said:



			Don't think BDWP is very accurate as I know Rachel Holden had a run out on the XC.
		
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You are absolutely right - the XC results area is up but only includes SJ results - from it it looks like they've all gone clear with no TF's - apologies.  I can't edit my post.


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## SW66 (7 May 2014)

Nicnac said:



			You are absolutely right - the XC results area is up but only includes SJ results - from it it looks like they've all gone clear with no TF's - apologies.  I can't edit my post.
		
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Its a bit frustrating as we have 3 riders from our riding club competing but luckily everyone keeps texting me with how there are getting on.  One of our BE90 riders has a 28.5 dressage & just done a double clear so very exciting to see if she gets in the top 10


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## Nicnac (7 May 2014)

SW66 said:



			Its a bit frustrating as we have 3 riders from our riding club competing but luckily everyone keeps texting me with how there are getting on.  One of our BE90 riders has a 28.5 dressage & just done a double clear so very exciting to see if she gets in the top 10
		
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Think she's got a darn good chance!!  I'm following the #twittereventing ones and know that unfortunately one had 2 poles down SJ and is just about to go XC but it's running 30mins late.  Wish I were there!!


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## SW66 (7 May 2014)

Nicnac said:



			Think she's got a darn good chance!!  I'm following the #twittereventing ones and know that unfortunately one had 2 poles down SJ and is just about to go XC but it's running 30mins late.  Wish I were there!!
		
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So do I, had the chance to go & cheer them on but couldn't get the time off work! 

Our other rider is also in the BE90 on a dressage score of 23.5 but have not had an update on her SJ or Xc yet but if they are running 30 mins late she may not have gone XC yet.

Can imagine the atmosphere is brilliant.


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## angelish (7 May 2014)

SW66 said:



			So do I, had the chance to go & cheer them on but couldn't get the time off work! 

Our other rider is also in the BE90 on a dressage score of 23.5 but have not had an update on her SJ or Xc yet but if they are running 30 mins late she may not have gone XC yet.

Can imagine the atmosphere is brilliant.
		
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my friends also down there in the 90 , she's on a 23 dressage , clear sj , its frustraiting not knowing whats going on


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## angelish (7 May 2014)

BE100 must be finished this was on twitter 

The results of the BE100 Class at the #MMBHT Grassroots Champs are yet to be announced, apparently there may have been an objection.


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## Nicnac (7 May 2014)

BE100 results now up on bwdp.  Completely different after XC!! Well done to them all.

Defo not a dressage competition!!


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## SW66 (7 May 2014)

angelish said:



			BE100 must be finished this was on twitter 

The results of the BE100 Class at the #MMBHT Grassroots Champs are yet to be announced, apparently there may have been an objection.
		
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Oh dear, must be very tense if you are in with a shout & they is an objection.  I see on BDWP they now have all the results up for the 100 but obviously this may now change.

How exciting Angelish, good luck to your friend,


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## angelish (7 May 2014)

thanks sw66 hope your friend also does well , good luck to all of them


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## SW66 (7 May 2014)

angelish said:



			thanks sw66 hope your friend also does well , good luck to all of them 

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Just found out she fell off but is ok, bless her.


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## Jo_x (7 May 2014)

Some SJ and XC results for the 90 are up now

Looks like it has been won by Zoe Symes on an incredible dressage of 18.3, 4 sj faults and a clear xc (if I am reading bdwp right!) - she led the dressage by more than 4 points so don't think anyone can beat that!


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## Ellie2893 (7 May 2014)

Full BE100 results now confirmed by BE - Alice Lumley & Foxwood took the title! 
BE90 still underway - exciting times with the rider in the lead very local to us with an amazing dressage of 18.3 and just the one down SJ and clear XC! Eeek! 
Another H&H forum member is doing extremely well lying in 12th position after SJ, fingers crossed for everyone


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## angelish (7 May 2014)

SW66 said:



			Just found out she fell off but is ok, bless her.
		
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aww no  bless her thats disappointing , hope she's still having a fab time down there 

yes i don't think the leader can possibly be beat according to BDWP , congratulations to her she must be on cloud 9 to win and on a very impressive score


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## wench (7 May 2014)

Some very low scores in the dressage!


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## glamourpuss (7 May 2014)

wench said:



			Some very low scores in the dressage!
		
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But looking at the results coming through anything but a dressage competition! Which is how it should be


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## Garnet (7 May 2014)

Well done Star!  11th out of 86 - fan-bl**dy-tastic!


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## claire_p2001 (7 May 2014)

Garnet said:



			Well done Star!  11th out of 86 - fan-bl**dy-tastic!
		
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Brilliant can't wait for the report


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## Nicnac (7 May 2014)

Garnet said:



			Well done Star!  11th out of 86 - fan-bl**dy-tastic!
		
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claire_p2001 said:



			Brilliant can't wait for the report 

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Hold your horses - that's result after SJ before her XC went up.  bwdp currently showing she had 89 time faults which seems ludicrous so don't think we can trust anything on bwdp until final results are up!


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## AandK (7 May 2014)

Nicnac said:



			Hold your horses - that's result after SJ before her XC went up.  bwdp currently showing she had 89 time faults which seems ludicrous so don't think we can trust anything on bwdp until final results are up!
		
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Final results now up on BDWP, until just now the were a bit haywire!


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## Twiglet (7 May 2014)

BWDP still showing no final results for me, can't see Star anywhere either - am I missing something?


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## rara007 (7 May 2014)

She fell  Ok and completed though I think


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## angelish (7 May 2014)

full BE90 results 

http://www.bdwp.co.uk/bgr/

my friend had 20pens xc , what a shame but she's just young i'm sure she'll get another go 
well done everyone else


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## dieseldog (7 May 2014)

The commentator said that the riders were not prepared enough for the XC.


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## glamourpuss (7 May 2014)

dieseldog said:



			The commentator said that the riders were not prepared enough for the XC.
		
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I don't know how the commentator can say that TBH. This is the grassroots championships there is NOTHING like it in terms of atmosphere, fence dressing & spectators anywhere else at this level....hence why people want to qualify! Some horses & riders will cope better than others with the pressure, many just won't.... This doesn't mean they haven't planned & prepared down the finest detail!
Poor Star by all accounts her XC was delayed by an hour & Monty boiled over. I don't think anyone can say she wasn't prepared for today anyone who's followed her blogs can see she'd really given herself the best shot she could


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## Honey08 (7 May 2014)

The courses are very long and full up heights at each level for all fences too, unlike anything else you'd come across at BE90/100 generally in BE.  I usually walk it while watching the real Badminton, and think that the BE90 looks like a BE100 and the BE00 looks like a novice!

Surely he can't have meant that about all the riders!

As for the dressage scores, some of the pics that went on the website looked like intermediate level horses rather than BE90, really impressive/depressing!


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## Ellie2893 (7 May 2014)

Completely agree. The course looks meaty (as usual!) and as above poster said, the dressage is outstanding - the majority of those horses could contest and be competitive in a pure dressage championship (I'd certainly be scars to come across them!)

Having followed Star recently, it's deffo not due to under preparation, she has done everything within her power to get Monty ready so I expect for her to hear something like that would be really disheartening! 

Everyone who even GOT there did phenomenally well regardless of how it turned out so well done everyone!!


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## monkeybum13 (7 May 2014)

I was surprised by how unfit some of the horses (and riders in some cases) looked. Given how much notice you have that you are going to Badminton surely both horse and rider should be super fit and able to cope with the course? We saw quite a few horses looking knackered and riders much the same. I don't do BE, is that something quite common at the lower levels?


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## Honey08 (7 May 2014)

monkeybum13 said:



			I was surprised by how unfit some of the horses (and riders in some cases) looked. Given how much notice you have that you are going to Badminton surely both horse and rider should be super fit and able to cope with the course? We saw quite a few horses looking knackered and riders much the same. I don't do BE, is that something quite common at the lower levels?
		
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In general, it does happen at BE lower levels, however to get to these championships these competitors have to have done pretty well, and will have put the work in and done the prep.

I haven't done BE for a few years now, but watched the headcam videos they'd put on the website from last year's Grassroots, and my main thought was "crikey its long!".  It seemed a long way between fences and its got a few ups and downs in it, combined with some good big fences for those levels.  I used to do 90 with my mare and was ready for 100, never really scared by 90 fences, but walking that 90 grassroot course made me go "eek" a few times - there are a lot of things you probably wouldn't find in your general BE90 courses, the big coffin, off the top of my head, was an example.


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## glamourpuss (7 May 2014)

monkeybum13 said:



			I was surprised by how unfit some of the horses (and riders in some cases) looked. Given how much notice you have that you are going to Badminton surely both horse and rider should be super fit and able to cope with the course? We saw quite a few horses looking knackered and riders much the same. I don't do BE, is that something quite common at the lower levels?
		
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Yes and no, although most of the reports are that it is was a true old fashioned galloping course ....sadly these are getting rarer & rarer on the BE Fixture list


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## Trules (7 May 2014)

it certainly looks like it was a true test of a good cross country horse judging by the results! which is great to see!


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## teapot (7 May 2014)

glamourpuss said:



			Yes and no, although most of the reports are that it is was a true old fashioned galloping course ....sadly these are getting rarer & rarer on the BE Fixture list 

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Surely if you've qualified for Badminton GR, you wouldn't expect anything BUT an old fashioned galloping course even though the competition idea is in its infancy? Given the location, ground they can use etc? Granted thinking it is far different from riding it BUT the thoughts should still be there and try to up fitness in the mean time? 

Just seen some of the photos and just wow - serious competition! Hope all HHOs are ok post stops/falls/etc.


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## wench (7 May 2014)

Honey08 said:



			The courses are very long and full up heights at each level for all fences too, unlike anything else you'd come across at BE90/100 generally in BE.  I usually walk it while watching the real Badminton, and think that the BE90 looks like a BE100 and the BE00 looks like a novice!

Surely he can't have meant that about all the riders!

As for the dressage scores, some of the pics that went on the website looked like intermediate level horses rather than BE90, really impressive/depressing!
		
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I haven't seen any pictures, but you must have a horse with some serious talent and be a bloody good rider to be pulling those sorts of scores out the bag at badminton!!!


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## glamourpuss (7 May 2014)

...but there's so many factors than can also effect a horses 'fitness' at a competition.
- distance travelled to the event
- being stabling away & stressed
- the atmosphere 
Add these into the galloping course & it can really make a horse very tired even if the owner/rider has worked meticulously on fitness.


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## glamourpuss (7 May 2014)

wench said:



			I haven't seen any pictures, but you must have a horse with some serious talent and be a bloody good rider to be pulling those sorts of scores out the bag at badminton!!!
		
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The winner of the BE90 has been placed at BD Petplan finals in Elementary so yes, serious dressage talent!


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## teapot (7 May 2014)

glamourpuss said:



			...but there's so many factors than can also effect a horses 'fitness' at a competition.
- distance travelled to the event
- being stabling away & stressed
- the atmosphere 
Add these into the galloping course & it can really make a horse very tired even if the owner/rider has worked meticulously on fitness.
		
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Totally agree. I'd be interested to hear more from DD and what other commentary was said


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## wench (7 May 2014)

glamourpuss said:



			The winner of the BE90 has been placed at BD Petplan finals in Elementary so yes, serious dressage talent!
		
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Interesting... Would you class that as a "grassroots" horse/rider combination?


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## be positive (7 May 2014)

glamourpuss said:



			...but there's so many factors than can also effect a horses 'fitness' at a competition.
- distance travelled to the event
- being stabling away & stressed
- the atmosphere 
Add these into the galloping course & it can really make a horse very tired even if the owner/rider has worked meticulously on fitness.
		
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It is also still early in the year for genuine amateur owners to be able to be fully prepared, this winter was exceptionally wet, some early events that may have been used in preparation were cancelled, which may have left a few horses a bit lacking in fitness however hard the riders have tried to get things right it can be hard to judge how fit the horse is and how it will handle all the extras involved.

The winner of the 90 is 15, has been eventing for years and probably coped with the whole situation better than a younger combination, not wanting to take anything away from their achievement but it shows the value of a really experienced horse, they can stay focused through 3 phases, 18 is a brilliant dressage score at any event it would be hard to beat.


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## vikkiandmonica (7 May 2014)

wench said:



			Interesting... Would you class that as a "grassroots" horse/rider combination?
		
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It depends if the horse is it an equal level with its jumping really. It could be a dressage horse turned eventer, and be at a lower level in SJ and XC so then yes, I would still class it as "grassroots".


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## glamourpuss (7 May 2014)

wench said:



			Interesting... Would you class that as a "grassroots" horse/rider combination?
		
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Yes, horse & rider fit the qualifying criteria.

I know someone who produces event horses to sell. It used to be that horses that had Novice points got the best prices on the amateur market but now she doesn't even dare run them novice. She recently sold a 'grassroots' horse (placings & a win at 90, 2 wins at 100, excellent winnings BD) for £20,000 & it was a very quick & easy sale! 
It's what people want now.


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## Dunlin (7 May 2014)

Have a look at this Hat Cam video of last years winner of the BE100 section

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L8sK8-OLfI

It's flippin' massive! The lady even says "oh my god that was big" about a brush fence in the latter part of the course and again over a more solid fence.

There is a big atmosphere at Grassroots, the fences are exceptionally well dressed making them very colourful and unique in shape and style compared to other places and the ground at Badminton is very challenging with lots of undulations. I don't think anyone can truly prepare 100% for Badminton Grassroots but I am damn sure they all do their very best with what is available. I think that was a rather unjust comment made from whoever was commentating. The weather has been dreadful for so many over the past 6 months, certainly here in the South West you struggled to even hack out let alone go XC schooling!

I am so sorry for Star, glad they are both OK, very brave to get back on and finish. 

Why is BE100 different to higher levels in that you can fall off but still carry on and not get eliminated?


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## Honey08 (7 May 2014)

Dunlin said:



			Have a look at this Hat Cam video of last years winner of the BE100 section

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L8sK8-OLfI

It's flippin' massive! The lady even says "oh my god that was big" about a brush fence in the latter part of the course and again over a more solid fence.


I am so sorry for Star, glad they are both OK, very brave to get back on and finish. 

Why is BE100 different to higher levels in that you can fall off but still carry on and not get eliminated?
		
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All things that I thought.

I think it was a pretty rude comment for the commentator to make all in all. it would have been more tactful to say lots of horses looking tired rather than unprepared.


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## wench (7 May 2014)

glamourpuss said:



			Yes, horse & rider fit the qualifying criteria.

I know someone who produces event horses to sell. It used to be that horses that had Novice points got the best prices on the amateur market but now she doesn't even dare run them novice. She recently sold a 'grassroots' horse (placings & a win at 90, 2 wins at 100, excellent winnings BD) for £20,000 & it was a very quick & easy sale! 
It's what people want now.
		
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Hmmm interesting point, has the introduction of foundation points, and the GR champs introduced an "elite" class of GR rider, whom maybe instead of moving up to novice etc, are more likely to stay at lower levels to get more FP's and to GR champs?


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## Honey08 (7 May 2014)

Definitely Wench.  From what I read on here last year, a lot of people who had qualified at BE90 were ready to go to Novice level by the end of the year they'd qualified, but couldn't or they'd lose their grass roots place the following spring...  Some of them came across as bored to bits of BE90/100 by the time the grassroots came round.


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## Honey08 (7 May 2014)

The other reason for not taking a horse above BE90/100 is that it can't do lower level pc/rc teams (I think) so is harder to sell as a schoolmaster for a pc horse...  Its almost worth more on the brink of getting points at novice than it is with points, as not everyone who is in the buyers market is brave enough to tackle bigger tracks but would love something that will take them out and win at lower level..


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## teapot (7 May 2014)

Dunlin said:



			Why is BE100 different to higher levels in that you can fall off but still carry on and not get eliminated?
		
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I think it's the FEI ruling of one fall and you're out. Whereas GR is still under BE? Could be wrong.


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## armchair_rider (8 May 2014)

teapot said:



			I think it's the FEI ruling of one fall and you're out. Whereas GR is still under BE? Could be wrong.
		
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That was the thought that occurred to me too.

Going back to the preperation issue, it must be quite a hard thing to prepare for. Limited time to get the horse fit, even if you haven't had an awful winter, possibly complacent about the level if you're looking to move up and maybe the events available as prep runs aren't that suitable? Isn't there some feeling that the early season events tend to be easier than those that come later. Plus the whole issue of how the horse will react to the atmosphere/being away overnight.


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## monte1 (8 May 2014)

claire_p2001 said:



			Brilliant can't wait for the report 

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ditto here, brilliant well done Star !!!


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## Ellie2893 (8 May 2014)

Yes.. She had to meet the criteria to be able to compete there. 

People like Star, the lady that won the 90 and myself, just because we can get to a pure dressage championship level doesn't mean the rest is perfect and up to the same standard. guess the equivalent of Elementary is novice BE(?) now I can get a good score in an elementary but I can't jump 90cm for toffee let alone 110cm! and I suspect this is the case with the 90 winner. So yes, I would class her as a GR rider. 

Easy to judge from an outsiders perspective but everyone has reasons for doing what they do, it's also easy to say 'well they clearly should be doing Novice' like I wanted to at those in the top 4 of the national class I was in, thinking they should be in at least elementary not prelim BUT without them the winner would have been on 66% and that doesn't represent a 'national championship' score from my point of view. It's a competition and as long as everyone is within the rules there's no harm done 

Again congratulations to Zoe & Dippy, amazing achievement to win and get such a fantastic dressage score - things I can only dream of! I look forward to Star's report & any others that were competing


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## Horsemad12 (8 May 2014)

wench said:



			Hmmm interesting point, has the introduction of foundation points, and the GR champs introduced an "elite" class of GR rider, whom maybe instead of moving up to novice etc, are more likely to stay at lower levels to get more FP's and to GR champs?
		
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Without a doubt!


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## montanna (8 May 2014)

I think it boils down to the difference of between 'competing at' and 'competitive at'. In order to be competitive at GR, you are going to need to be competitive at a higher level than 90/100. It doesn't mean they aren't GR riders!


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## montanna (8 May 2014)

Ellie2893 said:



			Again congratulations to Zoe & Dippy, amazing achievement to win and get such a fantastic dressage score - things I can only dream of! I look forward to Star's report & any others that were competing 

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Huge congratulations, what an amazing score. She must be on cloud 9!


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## Jo_x (8 May 2014)

Its interesting reading the records of the horses that did well. The winners of the 90 haven't done a BE bigger than 90 since 2010 and have had very few outings each year. The second placed horse is only 6, started BE last season and has only done one BE100. The horses in 4th and 9th also only started BE last year.

I wonder if the 100 is harder to prepare for, to get in enough experience to be able to run well round a championship track without accumulating points at Novice (I'm not sure what the exact eligibility criteria are?)


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## Garnet (8 May 2014)

Apologies for putting the cart before the horse yesterday afternoon, Star.  The scoreboard was not at all clear on who had completed and who had not run across country, and of course with the XC running an hour late, I was well off target.
Still an amazing achievement to compete there and I hope neither Monty or you have any lasting damage done and that you can enjoy the rest of the week living in the lorry!


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## LEC (8 May 2014)

I am personally thrilled it was not just a dressage competition. Long may this remain that its a proper championship cross country where people can move up in the placings. A friend came 9th in the 100. Moved up 22 places after dressage with a clear Sj to about 12th and then finished 9th on a clear xc. To me this is how it should be weighted. 

Its a tricky balance to get a championship course right but I feel that Badminton has got it right. Everyone was safe and sound even if the result was disappointing. I would be really sad if they dumbed it down as it would just make it a dressage competition.


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## Honey08 (8 May 2014)

I hope nobody thought I was criticising when I said the dressage of some horses was amazing and horses and riders were ready to move up the levels but didn't due to championships.  I wasn't.  That's just the way it is.  Everyone qualified and was quite entitled to go. Everyone deserved to be there.  Some people qualify early and have a long wait until the champs, they're naturally going to improve  in the meantime. I enjoy watching the videos, seeing the photos and reading people's reports on here.  Hats off and well done to everyone.  I'd have loved to have been able to do it.


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## Clarew22 (8 May 2014)

LEC said:



			I am personally thrilled it was not just a dressage competition. Long may this remain that its a proper championship cross country where people can move up in the placings. A friend came 9th in the 100. Moved up 22 places after dressage with a clear Sj to about 12th and then finished 9th on a clear xc. To me this is how it should be weighted. 

Its a tricky balance to get a championship course right but I feel that Badminton has got it right. Everyone was safe and sound even if the result was disappointing. I would be really sad if they dumbed it down as it would just make it a dressage competition.
		
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Exactly this


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## RachelFerd (8 May 2014)

Here here LEC - agree totally. I walked the course yesterday and thought it was a good tough test at both levels. It is not meant to be a dressage competition and there were very decent championship level questions in both courses. My old novice schoolmaster would not have struggled with either course, but my little grey lad would certainly have had a few wibbles around the 90, even though he has done 6 of them at normal events.

I spent a lot of time up at the coffin where the bulk of the problems in the 90 were occuring - interesting variety in the approaches and tactics used. Have to say those that did truly come back to a proper coffin canter and then rode forwards from that canter made a much better job than those who tried to use pace to get them over. One girl brought horse right back to trot and then wrapped leg on in the last three strides and made a beautiful job of it - easy to say with the benefit of being a spectator, but I do think nerves took over with some riders who were rushing the question rather than letting their horses assess it.

That said, well done to all who gave it a shot - must be nerve wracking to have so many watching, and the crowd that gathered around that fence must've only added to the spookiness for the horses.


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## Horsemad12 (8 May 2014)

LEC said:



			I am personally thrilled it was not just a dressage competition. Long may this remain that its a proper championship cross country where people can move up in the placings. A friend came 9th in the 100. Moved up 22 places after dressage with a clear Sj to about 12th and then finished 9th on a clear xc. To me this is how it should be weighted. 

Its a tricky balance to get a championship course right but I feel that Badminton has got it right. Everyone was safe and sound even if the result was disappointing. I would be really sad if they dumbed it down as it would just make it a dressage competition.
		
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Normally I would agree with this 100% but I do feel in particular for the BE100 riders who (if I am right) are restricted about moving up to Nov until they have qualified and as the qualifiers are towards the end of the year and Badders pretty early it makes it hard for them to perhaps "practice" over a harder track.  Correct me if I am wrong with this please!!!!!

It is pretty tough to do a course which sounds close to the equ of a Nov and is a long distance with the added pressure of being a championship for one of your first runs at a "higher" level.  

So bearing that in mind TOP MARKS to all of the clear XC round's, something to be very very proud of and big hugs to those that had their dreams shattered and did not complete.


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## AandK (8 May 2014)

Dunlin said:



			Have a look at this Hat Cam video of last years winner of the BE100 section

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L8sK8-OLfI

It's flippin' massive! The lady even says "oh my god that was big" about a brush fence in the latter part of the course and again over a more solid fence.
		
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That links to the second placed combination in the BE90 from last year.  Still a long and testing course though!



LEC said:



			I am personally thrilled it was not just a dressage competition. Long may this remain that its a proper championship cross country where people can move up in the placings. A friend came 9th in the 100. Moved up 22 places after dressage with a clear Sj to about 12th and then finished 9th on a clear xc. To me this is how it should be weighted. 

Its a tricky balance to get a championship course right but I feel that Badminton has got it right. Everyone was safe and sound even if the result was disappointing. I would be really sad if they dumbed it down as it would just make it a dressage competition.
		
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100% this.   After all the amazing dressage scores, I was glad to see it didn't end up being a dressage comp.  There is only so much prep you can do for this sort of competition, nothing can prepare you for the atmosphere on the day and the added nerves/pressure.

Huge congrats to those who topped the leader boards and well done to all those who did so well to make it there in the first place!!


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## Gamebird (8 May 2014)

Actually you can accrue a small number of points betweern RF and 100 final. Certainly someone I know ran his horse at Nov a couple of times last month and he went clear yesterday in the 100. I think I would prefer to do that for the 100 final so it felt easier. Even if you get a point for a DC ytou can still go steady-ish round the xc so you don't end up with too many points from a placing.


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## LEC (8 May 2014)

I would disagree that it was novice complexity. Last year was much more technical. If you walked Aldon BE100 three day I would say it was on a par. 

You can compete at novice, nothing is stopping you but you cannot get any points until after the regional final and then you are limited to 5 points? So you take a gamble and decide how good your horses chances are. But if we are talking gamesmanship there is plenty you can do to not get any points. If you did go clear novice in the Sjing then you would have to WD or run slowly xc. Maybe do a rubbish dressage test? All this is within the rules. 

The horse that won the 90 has been novice it just never got any points nor was it particularly successful at novice.


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## Horsemad12 (8 May 2014)

OK then good prep may have been aiming for a easier Nov at the start of this season (I know plans don't always work out).

I got the impression from the posts that it was tough, course pics only tell half a story.

Well done to those who did complete!


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## Honey08 (8 May 2014)

LEC said:



			Last year was much more technical..
		
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Out of interest, why did you think that?  I thought most of the fences seemed the same as last year's fences.


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## Dunlin (8 May 2014)

AandK said:



			That links to the second placed combination in the BE90 from last year.  Still a long and testing course though!
		
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Many apologies, too many tabs open syndrome!! The video I meant to post was this one;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-KldWPWUFQ

Although I still got it wrong because that's the winning BE100 round from 2012, not 2013...


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## Kick On (8 May 2014)

We speaking from experience (GR 2010).
I reckon this was a brilliant championship. There were some fabby dressage scores, showing jumping course was a nice course, then most of all the xc phase really was a challenge - look at the penalties collected by folk.
I take my hat off the everyone who was competing WELL DONE
To all the moaners and HHO arm chair riders - get out and ride your own horse and the green eyed monster is not a nice thing to show - life is for living....................
Esp well done Star can't wait for your report


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## BeckyD (8 May 2014)

Kick On said:



			We speaking from experience (GR 2010).
I reckon this was a brilliant championship. There were some fabby dressage scores, showing jumping course was a nice course, then most of all the xc phase really was a challenge - look at the penalties collected by folk.
I take my hat off the everyone who was competing WELL DONE
To all the moaners and HHO arm chair riders - get out and ride your own horse and the green eyed monster is not a nice thing to show - life is for living....................
Esp well done Star can't wait for your report  

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I haven't seen anyone on here being a moaner or an armchair rider!  And no one whatsoever has been a green-eyed monster!  Did you read this thread?  Everyone has been really congratulatory?!  

Strange!

But well done on getting there in 2010.  I can't even imagine getting there, let alone doing well.


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## Kick On (8 May 2014)

Becky D - I agree 99.9% replies very positive - (sorry sometime a bit of a straight talker....) I always find it odd when folk question rider or horse qualification etc....

Thx - I was helping yesterday and I was so wanted to get on horse and ping around again


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## BeckyD (8 May 2014)

Kick On said:



			Becky D - I agree 99.9% replies very positive - (sorry sometime a bit of a straight talker....) I always find it odd when folk question rider or horse qualification etc....

Thx - I was helping yesterday and I was so wanted to get on horse and ping around again  

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Wow yes I bet you did!  

I think the term grassroots can be confusing to people - BRC Grassroots competitions are at something like 70cm, and I think people who don't know much about the qualifications for Badminton Grassroots might be surprised to learn how competitive it is just to get there, and just how good you have to be.  It really is the cream of the crop.


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## Kick On (8 May 2014)

How true I reckon I would struggle to qualify again - going to try with new one tho


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## Tangaroo (8 May 2014)

I also competed there in 2010 and have to say, that year it was a dressage competition! I would far rather see a course like they had yesterday with lots of questions and a real challenge. 
I think qualifying is getting harder because it seems the reg finals are held over normal 90 courses so they end up more of a dressage competition again. I think they should find a way of making the xc more technical for the reg finals too.


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## Darremi (8 May 2014)

I think the Badminton Grassroots is a wonderful concept.


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## Trules (9 May 2014)

''I think qualifying is getting harder because it seems the reg finals are held over normal 90 courses so they end up more of a dressage competition again. I think they should find a way of making the xc more technical for the reg finals too.''

this.

I would love to qualify, I have a great cross country horse but our dressage is average, and it is so disheartening to see folk with winning with low 20's all the time. I would be really up against it, although I am going to give it a go!


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## Lilyboo (9 May 2014)

I so agree, about the regional finals, it would be so good and good preparation if they could beef up the xc for the RF. I'm the same as you Trules, but I shall keep trying!


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## Trules (9 May 2014)

agree Lilyboo, both of my local RF 's are over really straightforward xc courses on dead flat ground, they could chose much more testing xc venues.


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## Orangehorse (9 May 2014)

Yes, it is a CHAMPIONSHIP and therefore everything is going to be the maximum for your level.  I think anyone who had qualified, but had never been to Badminton would be at a disadvantage because you wouldn't know what the terrain is like nor the whole set-up.  Any competitor has to think that they will need to be not just fit and prepared, but extra fit and prepared.

I was there yesterday, so I obviously didn't see the course being ridden, but it looked challenging.

It is a lovely idea to have a championship at Badminton, and I think it is going from strength to strength and it is certainly tough to qualify.


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## Darremi (9 May 2014)

Orangehorse said:



			Yes, it is a CHAMPIONSHIP and therefore everything is going to be the maximum for your level.  I think anyone who had qualified, but had never been to Badminton would be at a disadvantage because you wouldn't know what the terrain is like nor the whole set-up.  Any competitor has to think that they will need to be not just fit and prepared, but extra fit and prepared.

I was there yesterday, so I obviously didn't see the course being ridden, but it looked challenging.

It is a lovely idea to have a championship at Badminton, and I think it is going from strength to strength and it is certainly tough to qualify.
		
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Totally agree. A championship is supposed to be for the creme de la creme. Hence the course being challenging.

If you are not flying round PN with your eyes closed and on the verge of stepping up to Novice then you should not be there unless you are prepared to accept it will be tough.


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## Dunlin (9 May 2014)

Here's a pretty comprehensive video showing all the jumps, or almost all the jumps for the BE90. I also spy Star and Monty finishing at the end of the video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGRDD4vV8Sk


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## armchair_rider (9 May 2014)

I don't think that anyone is arguing for Badminton to be made easier - it is, as you say, the Championship and therefore it should be the hardest event. The issue is whether those competing 1 - understand what they're up against and 2 - have adequate opportunities for preparation.


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## popsdosh (9 May 2014)

armchair_rider said:



			I don't think that anyone is arguing for Badminton to be made easier - it is, as you say, the Championship and therefore it should be the hardest event. The issue is whether those competing 1 - understand what they're up against and 2 - have adequate opportunities for preparation.
		
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How could anybody not be aware of what they are up against and everybody has the same opportunity to prepare and if you feel you are not ready dont do it.


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## teapot (9 May 2014)

popsdosh said:



			How could anybody not be aware of what they are up against and everybody has the same opportunity to prepare and if you feel you are not ready dont do it.
		
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That goes back to the reason this thread got so many posts - DD posted saying that over the commentary it was said that riders were unprepared for the course...


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## Darremi (9 May 2014)

popsdosh said:



			How could anybody not be aware of what they are up against and everybody has the same opportunity to prepare and if you feel you are not ready dont do it.
		
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Totally agree with this.

Imagine you were doing the REAL Badminton for the first time (ie. CCI4*). You would blooming well make sure you were spot on prep. and experience-wise!!

It is no different at PN/Intro level.

Personally 100 courses vary so much in standard that sure it is easy to pick and choose the hard ones if you are concerned about the Championship course.


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## star (13 May 2014)

Thanks for all the well wishes and excitement when you guys thought we'd done well.  I will do a proper report when I've finished nursing my bruises and licking my wounds.  Monty did a cracking dressage for 27.8, then despite hardly being able to warmup for SJ due to him massively spooking at the tent nearly taking off and 4 people holding down the archway into the ring he jumped an awesome clear.  

We then did the long walk down to the XC warmup to find they were running half hour behind, not really long enough to go back to the lorry so I walked him round and round and round as the course got held again and again.  Half an hour turned into an hour, the wind was blowing a gale and Monty turned into a raving lunatic.  I generally avoid spending much time in the XC warmup for good reason.  He was bucking, rearing, spinning, launching, you name it.  When I tried to jump he galloped at them ignoring me and then skewed over them.  He hates wind and he hates waiting around.  He isn't very good with things around the course and will generally spook at anything other than his jumps so there was an awful lot for him to look at and I struggled to keep his attention on me.  We jumped the first 7 fences well then I got him back into a coffin canter, rode forwards for a lovely stride and instead of taking off he whipped round and threw me off before disappearing.  I got back on, he refused again and we got through on the 3rd attempt with him leaving a leg and it wasn't pretty.  

I don't know how anyone could say I hadn't prepared for it as much as possible.  I took him XC schooling and jumped Novice technicality and height, I competed at three 100's this year and was placed in all of them but I'd never asked him to do an old fashioned rail-ditch-rail coffin with a crowd next to it because where on earth would I find one of those?  I've never seen a coffin like that at BE100, only Novice and not on any local schooling venue, plus I was doing the 90 Champs so surely shouldn't have to go Novice to prepare?  He's never been ditchy or had a problem with any coffin I've jumped so far so I wasn't prepared for him to throw the towel in with quite such force.  I do think maybe things might have been different in different weather without the hold in the warmup but we'll never know.  I got back on and completed and am determined to try and go back next year and do a better job.  I know someone broke their arm badly at the coffin and I know people will just think I'm biased but I think that fence was a test too far - it wiped out a large percentage of competitors and hurt some of them too.  I'm all for the accuracy questions - all the skinnies and tough lines inviting runouts where you get 20pens for making a mistake but I think a full coffin with upright rails in a 90 when you don't get that at any other competitions at that level is a bit much.  I agree that they need to make the Regionals stiffer.  Why is it ok to be a dressage competition at the Regionals and then make the jumping so much tougher at the champs?  I say make the jumping tougher at the Regionals so you make sure you get combinations going through who are capable of jumping the Championship track without getting injured.

And I disagree with anyone who thinks a horse competing at Elementary pure dressage cant be a grassroots eventer.  I have worked hard on Monty's dressage and he has won at Elementary BD and will come out at Medium this year but I had zero experience of eventing before getting him and no way are we capable of doing more than BE100 (and clearly not capable of BE90 Champs either) so pretty sure we are just what they mean when they say Grassroots at eventing.


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## lucemoose (13 May 2014)

Star I am really looking forward to your report, and slightly saddened that you have had to come on here defensively when you have made the massive achievement of qualifying in the first place!


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## star (13 May 2014)

Darremi said:



			Totally agree with this.

Imagine you were doing the REAL Badminton for the first time (ie. CCI4*). You would blooming well make sure you were spot on prep. and experience-wise!!

It is no different at PN/Intro level.

Personally 100 courses vary so much in standard that sure it is easy to pick and choose the hard ones if you are concerned about the Championship course.
		
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I'm sure all those doing real Badminton prepared as much as they physically could but look how many of them ended up on the floor/having refusals.  The point of a Championship is to test you to your limits and there's only so much preparation you can do - sometimes it's just circumstances on the day and not enough luck that makes things go wrong rather than a lack of preparation.  It's quite upsetting thinking people would have looked at us go round and thought we hadn't done our homework.  I threw absolutely everything into giving us the best chance possible but it just didn't work out


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## TarrSteps (13 May 2014)

Star, I can understand why you feel the need to defend yourself but, in my opinion (for what that is worth ) you have no reason to do so. You were as prepared as anyone - likely more so - and have done well at the level above your class. What more can anyone ask? I think, in your case, the circumstances were very much not in your favor that day. Perhaps there are things you can do to narrow those margins a bit but that was not to be expected and you did all you and your connections - who are hardly without top class knowledge - could think of. As, I'm sure, did most of the 4* riders. 

People seem to forget there is an element of luck in eventing. It is true that the harder you work, the luckier you get. But you work as hard as you can and do all you can do to narrow those margins, not eliminate them. Anyone who pretends it's not a potentially dangerous sport is delusional. And some of that danger comes because you can do everything right and still have it go wrong. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm probably what many people on here would consider an over preparer.  I believe you should do EVERYTHING you can to educate and prepare. But I've been in horses a loooong time and I would be kidding myself if I thought I had so much control I could make it all about me, all the time.

So don't listen to the people who imply you didn't do your best. It may me that, on the day, that wasn't exactly what was needed but it's also possible it just wasn't your day. Live and learn. What do they say, it's not how you fall it's how you pick yourself back up. Onward and upward.


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## j1ffy (13 May 2014)

TarrSteps said:



			Star, I can understand why you feel the need to defend yourself but, in my opinion (for what that is worth ) you have no reason to do so. You were as prepared as anyone - likely more so - and have done well at the level above your class. What more can anyone ask? I think, in your case, the circumstances were very much not in your favor that day. Perhaps there are things you can do to narrow those margins a bit but that was not to be expected and you did all you and your connections - who are hardly without top class knowledge - could think of. As, I'm sure, did most of the 4* riders. 

People seem to forget there is an element of luck in eventing. It is true that the harder you work, the luckier you get. But you work as hard as you can and do all you can do to narrow those margins, not eliminate them. Anyone who pretends it's not a potentially dangerous sport is delusional. And some of that danger comes because you can do everything right and still have it go wrong. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm probably what many people on here would consider an over preparer.  I believe you should do EVERYTHING you can to educate and prepare. But I've been in horses a loooong time and I would be kidding myself if I thought I had so much control I could make it all about me, all the time.

So don't listen to the people who imply you didn't do your best. It may me that, on the day, that wasn't exactly what was needed but it's also possible it just wasn't your day. Live and learn. What do they say, it's not how you fall it's how you pick yourself back up. Onward and upward. 

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Brilliantly put. 

Star, I've really enjoyed reading your reports and blogs in the run-up and you have achieved amazing things with Monty. It's such a shame that circumstances meant you couldn't show your top form on the xc but you will both bounce back and be even better for the experience. I'd love to read a full report (with pics) when you feel up to it as you're quite an inspiration!


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## TGM (13 May 2014)

Well done Star - sorry it didn't go to plan for you on the day, but regular HHOers should all be aware of how much work and preparation you put in.  The atmosphere at Badminton must be totally different from anything the majority of grassroots riders have ever experienced, so a very difficult thing to prepare for.  Obviously you now have to qualify again and go back next year when I am sure your experience this year will really help you achieve your aims!

As for regional finals versus the championships, I presume the regionals are run over standard BE90/100 courses that are also being used for the normal BE90/100 classes at the same event - is that the case?  Whereas the Badminton course is built specifically to be a championship course which is designed to really test the competitors.


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## lex2501 (13 May 2014)

Slightly sad to come on here and read this. I completely agree with Star - some of the questions asked in the course were questions that our 90 horses have never seen before and you would be hard pressed to replicate out schooling or at home. I have under good authority that Chris Bartle described the course as "jumpable apart from fence 8 which was a 4* question at 90cms". Billy caught me out there, and I am sure that he was a bit overwhelmed by the volume of people watching which took his eye off the ball a little as he is not at all ditchy.

Having said that, I don't think it should be softened - it meant that the winners were worthy ones and it was a really fantastic experience, and I am so proud to have got Billy round and for him to have grown and grown in confidence. He finished full of running and taking strides out so I really think he will come out a better horse from it, and hopefully we can go back next year and have a better result..

But for all the arm chair riders - trust me, we are beating ourselves up enough and wondering what else we could have done so please refrain from making us feel even worse!!


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## Darremi (13 May 2014)

lex2501 said:



			Slightly sad to come on here and read this. I completely agree with Star - some of the questions asked in the course were questions that our 90 horses have never seen before and you would be hard pressed to replicate out schooling or at home. I have under good authority that Chris Bartle described the course as "jumpable apart from fence 8 which was a 4* question at 90cms". Billy caught me out there, and I am sure that he was a bit overwhelmed by the volume of people watching which took his eye off the ball a little as he is not at all ditchy.

Having said that, I don't think it should be softened - it meant that the winners were worthy ones and it was a really fantastic experience, and I am so proud to have got Billy round and for him to have grown and grown in confidence. He finished full of running and taking strides out so I really think he will come out a better horse from it, and hopefully we can go back next year and have a better result..

But for all the arm chair riders - trust me, we are beating ourselves up enough and wondering what else we could have done so please refrain from making us feel even worse!!
		
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Sometimes it just does not go one's way on the day.

I remember going to the PN Champs that preceded the invention of the Grassroots scheme. I was 13 and it was my first ever season eventing. 

We drove all the way down from Scotland to Warwickshire and I got lost in the SJ and was eliminated . An early lesson that in eventing you have to take the lows with the highs!


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## TGM (13 May 2014)

lex2501 said:



			But for all the arm chair riders - trust me, we are beating ourselves up enough and wondering what else we could have done so please refrain from making us feel even worse!!
		
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I wouldn't take it too personally - the 4* riders are also getting criticism for being under-prepared in the other Badminton thread, so you are in very good company!


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## Twiglet (13 May 2014)

Love Chris Bartle's comment! I do think it seemed a very tricky combination, especially coming from the table (?) and even more so with crowds there. Like someone said - where do you prepare for that? I've never seen a coffin like that elsewhere. Not that it shouldn't be used, but it is going to be an enormous test. 

Well done Star and Lex....not the XC round you might have been looking for but a wonderful experience and one you've both worked incredibly hard for. Hope Monty and Billy are both recovering nicely at home!


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## TableDancer (13 May 2014)

I am another one delighted that the Championships - both Grassroots and 4* - were a true three phase test. That does not mean that I am suggesting inany way that most participants - again at both levels - were not properly prepared. I think it would be a mistake to get too hung up on a few off the cuff comments by commentators: they don't really set themselves up to be experts and it is easy to make a quick remark off the top of your head which ends up immortalised, examined and analysed on the internet when it really doesn't deserve such weight 

There is no question that there are factors at Badminton which you can't prepare for - the crowds, for a start, and some horses may be thrown. All you can do is ride positively, let them learn from the experience, and if you have a hiccup hope that ypu will be back next year and they will be a little less fazed. Again, very similar to what riders on first time 4* horses will be doing - look at Tom McK and Diesel.

As far as weather and timings etc are concerned, some of those factors are out of our control, some are more manageable: I'm sure Star will have a contingency plan in place for next year to deal with a similar set of circumstances (we had a pony who was similar, star, and it was a nightmare at Weston CCIP one year in a very similar situation to yours; after he very nearly ditched the jockey I took him right away, almost back to the stables, and we used a runner to tell me when to bring him back).

I hope and believe they will try to keep the course at this level of difficulty, and that as riders and coaches learn what to expect, preparations will become slightly different, a larger proportion will cope amd the stas will become less alarming. But in the end as TS says, sometimes it is just not your day, and there aren't many people rushing to suggest that WFP, AN and Toddy weren't properly prepared!

Well done to all the HHOers, hope you had a thoroughly enjoyable experience anyway, and huge congratulations to the prize winners


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## Leaping (13 May 2014)

I think everyone who was there had done incredibly well to get there. 

The coffin caused many issues - its not a fence you often find on courses these days  (and quite often portables are used - which are solid and roll tops) so for a lot of horses nad riders this would be their first experience of it (unless they have been eventing for 15+ years - in which case they will have come across them previously!).   A few came to it in a steady canter, not a coffin canter (so horse was steady but not really on its hind legs and in front of the riders leg - a couple were steadied back so much they were almost in a 4 beat canter) - however its very rare to find a question like that where a true coffin canter is required until you get to novice and quite often not then. Also these are grass roots riders on novice horses, they are not meant to have years of experience and the ability to produce a coffin canter at will - and whilst you might have the theory, if you haven't had the opportunity at competition to put it into practise, you aren't going to have the experience.  

Looking at the final results it seems the course caused the right number of problems that it wasnt' a dressage test (rather like the main Badminton).  It was a championship course, the coffin wasn't a new fence this year, but it can be hard to prepare for - although the winner of the 90 hasn't competed BE at over 100, and hasn't competed 100 since 2010 so they were a true grass roots rider, and whilst the horse has competed at BE novice (not since 2005) its never gone clear at BE Novice.  

Looking at the figures, 29% were eliminated/retired on xc this year at BE90, the same as for the 2013 class (22% for the 2012 class, 16% in 2011) which would sound about right for a championships (and a lot lower % than at the 4*!) 

Its a championship, its meant to be a test.  This year the weather didn't help and the ground was a bit sapping, but those who were in the top 10 deserved to be there and I hope all those who didn't finish the xc will come back with experience and know how to improve and resolve the issues (and hopefully will make them better riders and better equipped for the step up the levels)  

Just to be there is an achievement and not one that many will experience, to complete a huge achievement - take full credit Lex2501 and Star and I am sure you will both be there again (and fully equipped to tackle any coffin!)


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## montanna (13 May 2014)

Well done Star and Lex, huge congrats on getting round Badminton, what an achievement! The tone of your posts really saddens me - YOU GOT ROUND BADMINTON!!!!!!! You should be so proud of yourselves and your lovely horses.

I wish you both all the luck in the world for next year, anyone that has followed your reports in the run up knows just how much you put into it.


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## vic07 (13 May 2014)

Out of interest and light hearted point! There used to be a full coffin on the borde hill Xc in the late 90s. As you leave the lorry park towards the dressage there is a narrow path, look right.... It used to be located there!


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## ArcticFox (13 May 2014)

It saddens me too to read that those who have fought so hard to get there are now having to defend themselves.  A mighty great big pat for Lex and Star (and all the competitors) who qualified.  Just to qualify is a mahoosive achievement, then to keep the horse sound over the long winter months, get out early with all the preparation you can, spending alot of money and time preparing for the big champs and getting the horse fit is a massive battle.   You should be so proud of yourselves for making it to begin with. 


I so hope this hasn't put a damper on your overall experience of Badders, you really did brilliantly and I raise my glass to you (well cup of tea as its morning just now  ) I would love it if I could join you there next year, the experience sounds amazing.


oh and hurry up with your report, I keep checking on here for it to appear and I'm really looking forward to reading it


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## montanna (13 May 2014)

ArcticFox said:



			oh and hurry up with your report, I keep checking on here for it to appear and I'm really looking forward to reading it 

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This!!!!!!


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## armchair_rider (13 May 2014)

The problems in the 4* certainly put the Grassroots in a new light (though possibly the ground was a bit better for them).

Well done to Star and Lex, you both did very well to get there at all and the problems on the day weren't always within your control.


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## lex2501 (13 May 2014)

montanna said:



			Well done Star and Lex, huge congrats on getting round Badminton, what an achievement! The tone of your posts really saddens me - YOU GOT ROUND BADMINTON!!!!!!! You should be so proud of yourselves and your lovely horses.

I wish you both all the luck in the world for next year, anyone that has followed your reports in the run up knows just how much you put into it.
		
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Don't panic - I could not be prouder of Billy! We put our problem behind us and he jumped the most superb round  And I finished Badminton on a smiley horse full of running!

I will do a report as soon as I find the time, but here is my hatcam video which I am confident shows that we made a pretty good job of it and were in fact prepared and within our comfort zone. Yes we had a mistake, but believe me I will learn from it and we will come back all the better for it!! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wIfFDYS-g8&list=UU85SJhsT-VgXLQ7hcgQ8LKg


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## TableDancer (13 May 2014)

Leaping said:



			I think everyone who was there had done incredibly well to get there. 

The coffin caused many issues - its not a fence you often find on courses these days  (and quite often portables are used - which are solid and roll tops) so for a lot of horses nad riders this would be their first experience of it (unless they have been eventing for 15+ years - in which case they will have come across them previously!).   A few came to it in a steady canter, not a coffin canter (so horse was steady but not really on its hind legs and in front of the riders leg - a couple were steadied back so much they were almost in a 4 beat canter) - however its very rare to find a question like that where a true coffin canter is required until you get to novice and quite often not then. Also these are grass roots riders on novice horses, they are not meant to have years of experience and the ability to produce a coffin canter at will - and whilst you might have the theory, if you haven't had the opportunity at competition to put it into practise, you aren't going to have the experience.  

Looking at the final results it seems the course caused the right number of problems that it wasnt' a dressage test (rather like the main Badminton).  It was a championship course, the coffin wasn't a new fence this year, but it can be hard to prepare for - although the winner of the 90 hasn't competed BE at over 100, and hasn't competed 100 since 2010 so they were a true grass roots rider, and whilst the horse has competed at BE novice (not since 2005) its never gone clear at BE Novice.  

Looking at the figures, 29% were eliminated/retired on xc this year at BE90, the same as for the 2013 class (22% for the 2012 class, 16% in 2011) which would sound about right for a championships (and a lot lower % than at the 4*!) 

Its a championship, its meant to be a test.  This year the weather didn't help and the ground was a bit sapping, but those who were in the top 10 deserved to be there and I hope all those who didn't finish the xc will come back with experience and know how to improve and resolve the issues (and hopefully will make them better riders and better equipped for the step up the levels)  

Just to be there is an achievement and not one that many will experience, to complete a huge achievement - take full credit Lex2501 and Star and I am sure you will both be there again (and fully equipped to tackle any coffin!)
		
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Excellent post! Couldn't agree more


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## monte1 (13 May 2014)

lucemoose said:



			Star I am really looking forward to your report, and slightly saddened that you have had to come on here defensively when you have made the massive achievement of qualifying in the first place!
		
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Star, totally agree with the above comments , I think you have done brilliantly to get to the Champs and am sure you will get another shot next year. I take my hat off to all of you that qualified it takes guts and hard work


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## ArcticFox (13 May 2014)

love the hat cam Lex. 

he has a massive bridle path!!  love the ears pricked


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## lex2501 (13 May 2014)

ArcticFox said:



			love the hat cam Lex. 

he has a massive bridle path!!  love the ears pricked 

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He was a bit cheeky when I had the clippers on him to cut it one year and I can't bear to grow it out as I can't stand the spikes!! Saves me one plaits worth of plaiting time 

I think he enjoyed himself


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## Goldenstar (13 May 2014)

Sometime the luck goes with you sometimes it's does not .
You need luck and preparation for a championship competition 
It think it's very sad that some of those who had a bad day have felt the need to defend their performance .
Everyone who qualified did well to get there lots and lots never qualified .


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## Honey08 (13 May 2014)

That hat cam footage is wonderful, thanks for posting it.  You looked super around the rest of the course.  You could also see how deep and spooky that ditch in the coffin was,  not surprised it shocked horses that hadn't come across them didn't like it.  I think it was just one of those things, it happens to us all.  You shouldn't feel bad about it.  A lot of us on here know how much you and Star have put into getting to Badminton, feel proud (and tell us all about it!!)


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## lex2501 (13 May 2014)

Honey08 said:



			That hat cam footage is wonderful, thanks for posting it.  You looked super around the rest of the course.  You could also see how deep and spooky that ditch in the coffin was,  not surprised it shocked horses that hadn't come across them didn't like it.  I think it was just one of those things, it happens to us all.  You shouldn't feel bad about it.  A lot of us on here know how much you and Star have put into getting to Badminton, feel proud (and tell us all about it!!)
		
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Thank you so much  As soon as my Total Recall video has arrived I will post the report!!


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## teapot (13 May 2014)

Another looking forward to reports - in awe of those who get there, love the hatcam! :biggrin3: 

As an aside as people riding have got defensive, given the thread which is a total shame, it was apparently the commentator who originally said it, not the armchair critics of HHO...


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## rara007 (13 May 2014)

Looking forwards to both our 'homegrown' riders reports


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## BeckyD (14 May 2014)

lex2501 said:



			Slightly sad to come on here and read this. 

But for all the arm chair riders - trust me, we are beating ourselves up enough and wondering what else we could have done so please refrain from making us feel even worse!!
		
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I think it was the commentator who said people weren't prepared for the XC, not anyone on here! I don't think ANYONE in here agreed with that (in a critical way) or said anything that would have made you feel worse! It's been such a positive post. Everyone's been saying "how could people prepare for something like this"? 

We were all rooting for you both - I was refreshing bdwp like mad all day and cried out "oh no!!!!!" In my office when I saw you'd both had problems. Gutted for you. But still incredibly awed that you even got there.


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## elliefiz (14 May 2014)

The hatcam footage was fantastic. What a great job you did having a horse get round full of running despite the obvious heavy footing. And he obviously loved it, his ears pricked the whole way, what a lovely honest boy you have.  I agree the coffin was horrible- there are a lot of coffin complex fences on courses in Ireland, most hunter trials I've been round have them but none have such a narrow fence in that I can recall. Why do the courses over here not have them out of interest?


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## lex2501 (14 May 2014)

elliefiz said:



			The hatcam footage was fantastic. What a great job you did having a horse get round full of running despite the obvious heavy footing. And he obviously loved it, his ears pricked the whole way, what a lovely honest boy you have.  I agree the coffin was horrible- there are a lot of coffin complex fences on courses in Ireland, most hunter trials I've been round have them but none have such a narrow fence in that I can recall. Why do the courses over here not have them out of interest?
		
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 This has just made me smile a lot! Thank you so much  He is fan-blimmin-tastic! He gave me such a great ride - so proud of him!!

We have seen the odd coffin at BE90 and BE100 but they tend to be either just rail to ditch, or ditch to rail. You barely get all 3 elements together, and they are nearly always on flat ground, with more than 1 stride between and a smallish ditch. So I think the combination of the 1 stride distance, big spooky ditch and undulations made it a bit overwhelming for him and he just needed a bit of time to work the question out. Interestingly it reminds me of the concepts Eric Smiley was talking about the IEF when training young horses - he talked at length about how you should introduce "surprises" to the young horses so that they get used to reacting quickly and working out problems for themselves. Definitely food for thought!!


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## almostthere (14 May 2014)

BeckyD said:



			I think it was the commentator who said people weren't prepared for the XC, not anyone on here! I don't think ANYONE in here agreed with that (in a critical way) or said anything that would have made you feel worse! It's been such a positive post. Everyone's been saying "how could people prepare for something like this"? 

We were all rooting for you both - I was refreshing bdwp like mad all day and cried out "oh no!!!!!" In my office when I saw you'd both had problems. Gutted for you. But still incredibly awed that you even got there.
		
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^^^^^^
This Alexis. You KNOW I adore you and Billy and bow before you and Nicola for making it there in the first place. I am proud to know you both and as I have said to you many times YOU COMPLETED BADMINTON...how many people can say that


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## almostthere (14 May 2014)

star said:



			Thanks for all the well wishes and excitement when you guys thought we'd done well.  I will do a proper report when I've finished nursing my bruises and licking my wounds.  Monty did a cracking dressage for 27.8, then despite hardly being able to warmup for SJ due to him massively spooking at the tent nearly taking off and 4 people holding down the archway into the ring he jumped an awesome clear.  

We then did the long walk down to the XC warmup to find they were running half hour behind, not really long enough to go back to the lorry so I walked him round and round and round as the course got held again and again.  Half an hour turned into an hour, the wind was blowing a gale and Monty turned into a raving lunatic.  I generally avoid spending much time in the XC warmup for good reason.  He was bucking, rearing, spinning, launching, you name it.  When I tried to jump he galloped at them ignoring me and then skewed over them.  He hates wind and he hates waiting around.  He isn't very good with things around the course and will generally spook at anything other than his jumps so there was an awful lot for him to look at and I struggled to keep his attention on me.  We jumped the first 7 fences well then I got him back into a coffin canter, rode forwards for a lovely stride and instead of taking off he whipped round and threw me off before disappearing.  I got back on, he refused again and we got through on the 3rd attempt with him leaving a leg and it wasn't pretty.  

I don't know how anyone could say I hadn't prepared for it as much as possible.  I took him XC schooling and jumped Novice technicality and height, I competed at three 100's this year and was placed in all of them but I'd never asked him to do an old fashioned rail-ditch-rail coffin with a crowd next to it because where on earth would I find one of those?  I've never seen a coffin like that at BE100, only Novice and not on any local schooling venue, plus I was doing the 90 Champs so surely shouldn't have to go Novice to prepare?  He's never been ditchy or had a problem with any coffin I've jumped so far so I wasn't prepared for him to throw the towel in with quite such force.  I do think maybe things might have been different in different weather without the hold in the warmup but we'll never know.  I got back on and completed and am determined to try and go back next year and do a better job.  I know someone broke their arm badly at the coffin and I know people will just think I'm biased but I think that fence was a test too far - it wiped out a large percentage of competitors and hurt some of them too.  I'm all for the accuracy questions - all the skinnies and tough lines inviting runouts where you get 20pens for making a mistake but I think a full coffin with upright rails in a 90 when you don't get that at any other competitions at that level is a bit much.  I agree that they need to make the Regionals stiffer.  Why is it ok to be a dressage competition at the Regionals and then make the jumping so much tougher at the champs?  I say make the jumping tougher at the Regionals so you make sure you get combinations going through who are capable of jumping the Championship track without getting injured.

And I disagree with anyone who thinks a horse competing at Elementary pure dressage cant be a grassroots eventer.  I have worked hard on Monty's dressage and he has won at Elementary BD and will come out at Medium this year but I had zero experience of eventing before getting him and no way are we capable of doing more than BE100 (and clearly not capable of BE90 Champs either) so pretty sure we are just what they mean when they say Grassroots at eventing.
		
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Star - anyone who read your reports and blogs would know that you prepared as best you could with 4* eventers. As I said to Alexis - you guys COMPLETED BADMINTON. That is an amazing achievement and I know that both of you are beating yourselves up but please don't. I watched your video of the coffin last night, I didn't see it coming at all. Please, please don't let others comments distract you from such an amazing achievement.


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## lex2501 (14 May 2014)

almostthere said:



			^^^^^^
This Alexis. You KNOW I adore you and Billy and bow before you and Nicola for making it there in the first place. I am proud to know you both and as I have said to you many times YOU COMPLETED BADMINTON...how many people can say that 

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Sorry guys - perhaps a little over sensitive and defensive!  Mike Tucker was commentating when I went round and anything he says I always take with a pinch of salt anyway


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## elliefiz (14 May 2014)

lex2501 said:



 This has just made me smile a lot! Thank you so much  He is fan-blimmin-tastic! He gave me such a great ride - so proud of him!!

We have seen the odd coffin at BE90 and BE100 but they tend to be either just rail to ditch, or ditch to rail. You barely get all 3 elements together, and they are nearly always on flat ground, with more than 1 stride between and a smallish ditch. So I think the combination of the 1 stride distance, big spooky ditch and undulations made it a bit overwhelming for him and he just needed a bit of time to work the question out. Interestingly it reminds me of the concepts Eric Smiley was talking about the IEF when training young horses - he talked at length about how you should introduce "surprises" to the young horses so that they get used to reacting quickly and working out problems for themselves. Definitely food for thought!!
		
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Well you should be super proud, you gave him what looked like a great ride and the coffin took him completely by surprise. It was spooky because it was so sloping- what a brave boy he was when you re presented, and it made me laugh hearing you shout go on  I don't think I would have found my brave pants as quickly as you did, you were back on and over it straight away!


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## EveningStar (14 May 2014)

Thanks for the hat cam vid Lex - I really do adore Billy and can't wait to see your full report.
I'm vastly under qualified to comment but the course looks really tough - lots of skinnies and technical questions. You seemed to answer every other question with ease and its a real shame you fell. Love that you used the fence as a mounting block! 

Well done to you & Star and everyone else who qualified - no mean feat in itself. I don't think anyone here could possibly believe you were underprepared and it is really unfortunate when it is criticisms that make the biggest impression rather than the praise you all deserve


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## ester (14 May 2014)

I wasn't their on grassroots day but heard all about the coffin and walked it. I was surprised that when it is so hard to get through the RF to qualify that the XC caused so many issues but I suppose that is explained by the RF being run over more 'standard' courses - perhaps the XC at the RF should be beefier than it currently is and not be a dressage competition?

On walking it (it was the other way round last year I think so two strides to the ditch) I figured that something about the line must have looked confusing for the horses to work out - because of the drop the ditch looked smaller than it was from the rail and the first rail wasn't overly big (85 cm from my Ester's hip measuring tool/would I jump that on Frank measuring tool) so I figured it must just have been difficult for the horses to read, particularly when they wouldn't have seen that sort of question previously.


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## Fanatical (14 May 2014)

I think there are always fences on the course at the Grassroots champs that cause issues. But I think you can only expect that at a championships.

The coffin has been there for at least 4 years. In 2011 it also caused a lot of trouble, running in the same direction as this year. However in 2011 instead of the rails, they had pretty up-to-height hedges, so the horses definitely didn't see the ditch until the last minute. 

Last year at the water they had the 'A' element directly into the water. Of course, this also caused carnage - you don't normally get a direct jump into water until Novice level (except maybe a step at PN).

It will be interesting to see what changes they make next year as the coffin was the same this year, as last year, just the other way round, so I would say the fact that you landed on a slope after the first rail, made the difference. They set the fences in front of the water back again this year so they clearly acted on last years carnage.

At the end of the day, I'm not against setting the men from the boys, but it'd be nice if they gave options to those that have a problem, just so they can get round and complete. As there never has been many alternatives on the grassroots champs course.

Huge congratulations to both lex and Star for completing. With or without issues, its a fantastic achievement to even get there, never mind complete. And to me hopping back on and completing after a fall is no mean feat!


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## ester (14 May 2014)

Yes, I did watch the water last year cause a lot of issues - interesting re. the 2011 set up of it.


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## glamourpuss (14 May 2014)

Regarding the coffin. There is one unaffiliated event in this area that has a proper old fashioned coffin. It's rails, 2 strides down a steep slop, ditch, 2 strides up a steep slopes then rails. It's also set under trees. 
The course isn't open for schooling only for this one event once a year. I do everything in my power to make it purely to give my horses the experience of a proper old fashioned coffin because they are so rare!


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## lex2501 (14 May 2014)

Fanatical said:



			The coffin has been there for at least 4 years. In 2011 it also caused a lot of trouble, running in the same direction as this year. However in 2011 instead of the rails, they had pretty up-to-height hedges, so the horses definitely didn't see the ditch until the last minute.
		
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I would have preferred up to height hedges as they would allow you to attack more as they are forgiving. Upright rails demand that coffin canter - and I guess that highlighted my weakness in that mine perhaps wasn't powerful enough as we have never really needed it before around the standard BE90 and BE100 tracks.


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## EstherYoung (14 May 2014)

As we say in endurance, to finish is to win.You both did bliddy well and I take my hat off to you. So, you've got some learning points, but heck, if you'd have won it you would have still had learning points. It's how we all get better, by learning.


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## Fanatical (14 May 2014)

lex2501 said:



			I would have preferred up to height hedges as they would allow you to attack more as they are forgiving. Upright rails demand that coffin canter - and I guess that highlighted my weakness in that mine perhaps wasn't powerful enough as we have never really needed it before around the standard BE90 and BE100 tracks.
		
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I think its a fine line really and at the end of the day the horse and rider are a team - or should be! lol
In 2011, plenty of people were attacking, and plenty were stopping. I think unless the horse is uber experienced at that type of fence, when the ditch suddenly comes upon them as a suprise, they will prop or stop for a look, no matter how well you ride the fence.

I am annoyed at the reports that the commentator suggested that competitors were not prepared enough as in my eyes, people make a huge effort on the run up to such a prestigious competition. I think it is more that the Grassroots course asks horses and riders new questions which they have not tackled in the process of qualifying. Plus the addition of crowds around fences gives horses a lot more to look at - and that's something you can't really aqaint a horse to if you are competing at Grassroots level.


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## TarrSteps (14 May 2014)

lex2501 said:



 This has just made me smile a lot! Thank you so much  He is fan-blimmin-tastic! He gave me such a great ride - so proud of him!!

We have seen the odd coffin at BE90 and BE100 but they tend to be either just rail to ditch, or ditch to rail. You barely get all 3 elements together, and they are nearly always on flat ground, with more than 1 stride between and a smallish ditch. So I think the combination of the 1 stride distance, big spooky ditch and undulations made it a bit overwhelming for him and he just needed a bit of time to work the question out. Interestingly it reminds me of the concepts Eric Smiley was talking about the IEF when training young horses - he talked at length about how you should introduce "surprises" to the young horses so that they get used to reacting quickly and working out problems for themselves. Definitely food for thought!!
		
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Definitely. I'm a huge believer in teaching horses to 'think with their feet' and I think this is actually a skill that's diminishing the general population now so many horses spend their lives in very proscribed circumstances. It doesn't necessarily follow that every horse will develop it with competition oriented training. I find it's often a missing piece of the puzzle in horses with hacking issues, too, and even in loading problems. I can quite often work with a dodgy loader and tell people where they might see apparently unrelated issues in their other work, especially at speed.


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## wench (14 May 2014)

TarrSteps said:



			Definitely. I'm a huge believer in teaching horses to 'think with their feet' and I think this is actually a skill that's diminishing the general population now so many horses spend their lives in very proscribed circumstances. It doesn't necessarily follow that every horse will develop it with competition oriented training. I find it's often a missing piece of the puzzle in horses with hacking issues, too, and even in loading problems. I can quite often work with a dodgy loader and tell people where they might see apparently unrelated issues in their other work, especially at speed.
		
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I've previously had a horse with problems. Speak to people for advice - it's two or three sets of different problems. I insisted that the behaviour in different circumstances was in fact related, and had the same root cause. Nope it doesnt. 

Guess what, speak to a horse behviourist/whisperer, and they agreed with me.


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## charlimouse (14 May 2014)

I did the BE90 Grassroots in 2011. As far as the coffin is concerned in 2011 it was certainly the bogey fence (everything else was pretty straight forwards), but was quite a different question to the 2014 version. In 2011 you jumped a table to open the horse up (similar to 2014 by the looks of it), before jumping in to the coffin over a full up hedge.







You landed just on the flat, then it was 2 strides down hill to the ditch.







You had to put in a slight left bend to jump a pretty harshly angled full up hedge on the way out, 3 strides after the ditch.













It certainly was a different question to the one posed in 2014 (which I did walk). I think both the 2011 and 2014 were fair for a Championship course, however I will admit it came as a bit of a shock when I walked the 2011 version, wondering what on earth my horse would think of it! The 2014 version probably required a more accurate approach due to the upright rails, with the 2011 hedge it was a little more forgiving if you didn't have the coffin canter.  

I would love to see the regional finals have a beefed up XC course compared to a normal class at the level. I do think the RFs end up being a dressage competition, with one of our local RFs being held around a course which is considered a first timers course at every level it runs at. The only reason I qualified in 2011 was due to the RF being held in atrocious weather and ground conditions my TB managed to jump clear XC with relatively few time penalties (the event was abandoned after the RF finished). I was last after dressage, but pulled myself up to 4th to qualify, purely on jumping performance. But in normal circumstances I wouldn't have qualified, as we were out of the equation after the dressage. 

Massive well done to all who made it to Badminton and completed. It is an amazing experience, I was so jealous of you all last Wednesday whilst following the updates. There is no better feeling than galloping away from the water towards Badminton house!


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