# Its Grand National Week!



## Elf On A Shelf (1 April 2019)

There is less than a week to go until the greatest jumps race on the calendar! 5.15pm Saturday 6th of April 40 horses will line up, 40 horses will hear the roar, 40 horses will thunder down to the first fence (I wish they didn't go quite as quick!) Hopefully 40 horses will stay on their feet but most importantly that all 40 horses come back in to their devoted lads/lasses and back to their comfy stables for their dinner. 

I would love to see Arthur win again. Who wouldn't!?!?! I know he hasn't exactly had the ideal preperation this time round but everything has come together in time. He just needs a clean round again and he should have a chance of bringing home some decent prize money again!

Saying that I can't see Tiger Roll being beaten if he stays on his feet. He has done what no other National winner has done in a long time - won another good race again! Very few win again ever but he seems to be even better than ever this year!

I would love Captain Redbeard to get a run again. It would be good to see another grey and Scottish based horse win - but then the personal rivallry in me hopes that Lake View Lad doesn't! 

Gordon Elliott goes in mob handed with at least 12 runners! Possibly 16 if they all get in and I wouldn't dismiss one of his outsiders.

What are you guys backing this year?


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## bonny (1 April 2019)

I thought tiger roll was a good thing but now the weights have gone up Iâ€™m not so sure, itâ€™s a big ask now and maybe something from the bottom of the handicap will beat him. Silly question but if you could ask Arthur if he fancies another go at the National what do you think he would say ?


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## Calluna (1 April 2019)

On the basis of absolutely no (a) knowledge or (b) research I have gone with:
One for Arthur
Anibale Fly
Pleasant Company
Ramses de Teille
Iâ€™m not an habitual racegoer or follower so this is just a bit of fun across a pretty broad range of odds.


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## Elf On A Shelf (1 April 2019)

I'm pretty certain he would say: Mate, I'm already a National winner, I am so cool I am almost frozen and I plan on doing it all again because I am such a big headed moron!

Lol! I admire the horse but I actually don't like him as a horse! Since he won the other year he has turned into even more of an arrogant pita! It doesn't help that some people pander to him, spoil him and let him away with blue murder!

No I think he would say - I will try my very best for you because you have asked it of me.


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## Clodagh (2 April 2019)

Has Vintage Clouds got in? (I could go and look, but one of you can probably tell me). I love him. 

OK, I did go and look... I want him to win!


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## Mariposa (3 April 2019)

To be totally honest I'm more excited about the Betway Bowl and the Aintree Hurdle tomorrow!  

However - I'd love Tigar Roll to win! But i've gone for....

Ultragold
Walk in the Mill (hoping he makes the cut!)
Annibale Fly
Ms Parfois


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## blodwyn1 (4 April 2019)

Well done the amateur jockeys in the foxhunter, good examples of responsible riding pulling up tired horses!


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## bonny (4 April 2019)

blodwyn1 said:



			Well done the amateur jockeys in the foxhunter, good examples of responsible riding pulling up tired horses!
		
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As they do, the jumps look even easier if thatâ€™s possible but you certainly need a horse who can cope with soft ground


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## Clodagh (4 April 2019)

Wasn't Kalishnikov fantastic? Love him, he did it! Sorry for the mare, she is a cracker, but so pleased for K, he is so gorgeous.
Pentland Hills ran an amazing race as well, I hope he grows on for next year, he looks very special. And Kemboy, although I wasn't rooting for him, ran a blinder and made it look so easy.
The hurdle wasn't all that, I did want Buveur D'Air to win.
The Foxhunters was a yawn, I could probably jump round there nowadays. (OK, maybe not).


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## Elf On A Shelf (4 April 2019)

If anyone would like to follow One For Arthur - I am going to become even more annoying to my work colleagues over the next 48 hours! Join us on the Facebook page where I have no idea what I am going to be putting up yet but it will 99% be Arthur related! Plus I will have happy helpers down at Aintree with him to provide stuff for the page and possibly go live there too on the morning of the race ...




__ https://www.facebook.com/ArlaryHouseStables/posts/2223276424384839


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## Crazy_cat_lady (5 April 2019)

Running the work sweepstake, trying to get people to want to participate is like getting blood out of a stone!

No one will be able to say I've fixed it I have Single Farm Payment and LIve Love Laugh (stupid name!!)

Over half the runners still left this is in a decent sized office as well.


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## Bellaboo18 (5 April 2019)

I've gone for Anibale Fly and Vintage Clouds although I'll be happy if Tiger Roll does it.


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## blodwyn1 (5 April 2019)

Sorry for your yards loss  EKW. He was running a great race.


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## bonny (5 April 2019)

blodwyn1 said:



			Sorry for your yards loss  EKW. He was running a great race.
		
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This, he was going so well and I imagine the yard were shouting him home, itâ€™s a hard sport sometimes. Barry geraghty as well, looks like a broken leg


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## joosie (5 April 2019)

I know nothing about racing so I just pick mine on very superficial things! So this year I'm going for Tea For Two - because it's a female jockey, and because I love tea


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## Elf On A Shelf (5 April 2019)

Thanks guys x

Forest Des Aigles was a lovely, genuinely nice horse. Regardless of the fact he was a decent racehorse he was a lovely horse to deal with and to ride on a daily basis. Wee Paddy has looked after him all year and will be absolutely devastated as are we all ðŸ˜¥ racing is a hard game at times and before anyone jumps on it - it was not the fences that caused the injury. He broke a front leg with a slightly awkward landing which could have happened anywhere. 

We will remember him pinging round those big national fences! He had jumped absolutely superbly every step of the way! And he looked an absolute picture!


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## Clodagh (5 April 2019)

He was running a stormer, it was so sad to see. What a horse, he might have got second! 
Good racing today, not quite up to Thursday's standard but lovely horses all round.


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## Clodagh (5 April 2019)

bonny said:



			This, he was going so well and I imagine the yard were shouting him home, itâ€™s a hard sport sometimes. Barry geraghty as well, looks like a broken leg
		
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Oh no, although I have to say I thought Mark Walsh gave Champ an amazing ride. Still feel sorry for Barry, wouldn't wish that on anyone. Any news on Mark Enright?


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## Mariposa (6 April 2019)

EKW my deepest sympathies for your yard yesterday. So sorry.

Edit and for the National I'm on Ultragold, Step Back, Valtor and Walk in the Mill and my 5 yr old daughter has asked for Â£1 on Singlefarmpayment! I'd love to see Tiger Roll win again.


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## Chiffy (6 April 2019)

So sorry about your lovely horse EKW.
I am a National Hunt Fan but not particularly a National fan. I do watch it and the horses that manage to stay clear of trouble and gallop and jump in a rhythm are a joy to behold but on the whole give me a Gold Cup or even a Tingle Creek any day.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (6 April 2019)

I've gone for Monbeg Notorious, Don Poli and Live Love Laugh, only small each way bets but I tend to pick the longer priced ones as dont usually bet and anything can happen.


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## ILuvCowparsely (6 April 2019)

EKW said:



			There is less than a week to go until the greatest jumps race on the calendar! 5.15pm Saturday 6th of April 40 horses will line up, 40 horses will hear the roar, 40 horses will thunder down to the first fence (I wish they didn't go quite as quick!) Hopefully 40 horses will stay on their feet but most importantly that all 40 horses come back in to their devoted lads/lasses and back to their comfy stables for their dinner.

I would love to see Arthur win again. Who wouldn't!?!?! I know he hasn't exactly had the ideal preperation this time round but everything has come together in time. He just needs a clean round again and he should have a chance of bringing home some decent prize money again!

Saying that I can't see Tiger Roll being beaten if he stays on his feet. He has done what no other National winner has done in a long time - won another good race again! Very few win again ever but he seems to be even better than ever this year!

I would love Captain Redbeard to get a run again. It would be good to see another grey and Scottish based horse win - but then the personal rivallry in me hopes that Lake View Lad doesn't!

Gordon Elliott goes in mob handed with at least 12 runners! Possibly 16 if they all get in and I wouldn't dismiss one of his outsiders.

What are you guys backing this year?
		
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I won't bet on it,  2 horses have already died today.


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## minesadouble (6 April 2019)

I love National Hunt racing and while I prefer Cheltenham to Aintree I'll still be glued to the TV all afternoon. 
Hoping all of the runners come back safe and sound and also hoping I won't have to block too many FB bunny huggers at the end of the day ðŸ˜‰


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## Elf On A Shelf (6 April 2019)

ILuvCowparsely said:



			I won't bet on it,  2 horses have already died today.
		
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Racing hasn't started yet today. 

We lost a horse in the Topham yesterday. And as I said above it was absolutely nothing to do with the fences. The horse broke his leg actually on the take off stride before the fence. The other horse lost yesterday was over the regulation chase fences not the National fences.


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## Amymay (6 April 2019)

Lovely run by Ornua.


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## ester (6 April 2019)

That was tight!


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## Amymay (6 April 2019)

Wasnâ€™t it just!

Stewards enquiry I wonder?

Canâ€™t bear the interviews of the jockeys at the end.


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## ester (6 April 2019)

They are pretty dire. 
From the overhead camera you can see how much AJ moved right on the run in as well, couldn't quite understand why the whip wasn't switched by that point. 
It must be warmer there than it is here today!


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## Bellaboo18 (6 April 2019)

ester said:



			They are pretty dire. 
From the overhead camera you can see how much AJ moved right on the run in as well, couldn't quite understand why the whip wasn't switched by that point. 
It must be warmer there than it is here today!
		
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I thought the same (about the heat), I ran outside and stood for 5 minutes to convince myself I hadn't over rugged in no fills :/


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## AdorableAlice (6 April 2019)

amymay said:



			Wasnâ€™t it just!

Stewards enquiry I wonder?

Canâ€™t bear the interviews of the jockeys at the end.
		
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The use of the whip on all 3 was questionable. Two horses straight to cooling area, that would have been by direction of vets.  I cannot see the point of stuffing microphones up to jockeys as soon as the horse has dropped to a walk, surely it is more appropriate to let the handlers get the water on, undo the girths and the vets doing their job.  It is not that uncommon for racehorses to wobble and keel over, I have only seen it once thankfully and it was awful to watch. Imagine the PR disaster for racing if one went down whilst Rishi and his mates were doing the inane questioning of the jockey.


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## Peregrine Falcon (6 April 2019)

I made a comment to my husband that Rishi needed to leave them to it!


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## Amymay (6 April 2019)

My money is on Minella Rocco


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## JennBags (6 April 2019)

Watching them parade, I love Outlander, that's one good looking horse. Wish they'd show all of them though.


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## Elf On A Shelf (6 April 2019)

.... bricking it now ...

Ive been fine all day ...

Argh!!!!!!!!


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## Equi (6 April 2019)

Big deep breaths ekw! 

Hoping for a safe race for all.


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## Amymay (6 April 2019)

EKW said:



			.... bricking it now ...

Ive been fine all day ...

Argh!!!!!!!!
		
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Have you got one running??


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## Elf On A Shelf (6 April 2019)

amymay said:



			Have you got one running??
		
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Errr! Only One For Arthur! 2017 winner!!!!!!


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## Amymay (6 April 2019)

Of course!! Good luck xxxxx


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## Equi (6 April 2019)

Second faller looked a bit nasty


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## Sandstone1 (6 April 2019)

Hope it was just winded as did look nasty


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## Lammy (6 April 2019)

equi said:



			Second faller looked a bit nasty 

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Thatâ€™s what I thought it didnâ€™t look good  anyone know who it was?


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## Amymay (6 April 2019)

Theyâ€™re jumping so beautifully


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## Amymay (6 April 2019)

Screens up ðŸ˜¦


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## ester (6 April 2019)

ermm he appears to be cruising....


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## Equi (6 April 2019)

Ahh thatâ€™s a shame 

Bloody well done tiger roll!! 

And well done Arthur!


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## Amymay (6 April 2019)

Fantastic result!!!!

And Arthur home safe EKW xxxx


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## ester (6 April 2019)

Arthur did a good job


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## Elf On A Shelf (6 April 2019)

WHAT A BLOODY BRILLIANT RUN FROM ARTHUR!!!!!!! 

Fair play Tiger Roll! I did say it would win with a clear round!


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## JennBags (6 April 2019)

Didn't he just, wish I'd put a few quid either way on him! 
(In reply to ester)


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## Crazy_cat_lady (6 April 2019)

Didn't look good for the faller at the first think it was Up for Review?


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## ester (6 April 2019)

JennBags said:



			Didn't he just, wish I'd put a few quid either way on him!
(In reply to ester)
		
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I missed the start too so they'd only gone halfway for me!


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## Lammy (6 April 2019)

Well done Arthur! I put an each way in him, lovely horse.

I wish they would give updates about the fallers a bit quicker...


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## Crazy_cat_lady (6 April 2019)

Nosebleed for Tiger Roll?


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## ester (6 April 2019)

I rather like the ginger police horse 

yup he def bled


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## holeymoley (6 April 2019)

Ghastly fall at the first for one of them, could clearly see it couldnâ€™t get up. Screens were up on second time round. Still not sure who it was?


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## Crazy_cat_lady (6 April 2019)

holeymoley said:



			Ghastly fall at the first for one of them, could clearly see it couldnâ€™t get up. Screens were up on second time round. Still not sure who it was?
		
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Think it was Up for Review could see him unable to get up and the bypassing wasnt good


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## holeymoley (6 April 2019)

Apparently itâ€™s a broken neck?


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## Ambers Echo (6 April 2019)

I love the Grand National but I wish they would reduce the size of the field. It always seems carnage for the first fences with everyone still so close together. Glad Tiger Roll did it. Awesome horse.


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## Equi (6 April 2019)

Poor up for review & team  that was a nasty nasty looking fall.


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## joosie (6 April 2019)

Been confirmed. Up For Review killed at fence 1.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (6 April 2019)

Urgh just confirmed Up for Review a fatality


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## Follysmum (6 April 2019)

RIP horsey ðŸ˜¢


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## Peregrine Falcon (6 April 2019)

Well done to Tiger Roll and all connections. Had backed him and Walk in the Mill. 

Pleased your horse came home safe EKW


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## Lammy (6 April 2019)

They just confirmed it was a fatal injury 
Iâ€™ve always thought they should space out the field for the first few fences


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## WandaMare (6 April 2019)

That's so sad, feel so sorry for the horse and all his connections


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## only_me (6 April 2019)

joosie said:



			Been confirmed. Up For Review killed at fence 1.
		
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I knew as soon as saw him struggling to get up was going to be a broken neck. Not a nice fall at all


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## bonny (6 April 2019)

What a horse Tiger Roll, absolute legend of a horse


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## LeneHorse (6 April 2019)

can I just mention the mare Magic of Light who came second? The only mare in the race and 66:1 - If she hadn't made that mistake at the last she might just have won it. 
Very sad news about Up for Review


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## bonny (6 April 2019)

LeneHorse said:



			can I just mention the mare Magic of Light who came second? The only mare in the race and 66:1 - If she hadn't made that mistake at the last she might just have won it.
Very sad news about Up for Review 

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She did run a very fine race, saw her before and thought she looked a bit out of her depth, shows what I know !


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## Elf On A Shelf (6 April 2019)

LeneHorse said:



			can I just mention the mare Magic of Light who came second? The only mare in the race and 66:1 - If she hadn't made that mistake at the last she might just have won it.
Very sad news about Up for Review 

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Nah I don't think she would have beaten Tiger Roll - he doesn't know how to be beaten! But fair play to her, she ran a cracking race!

Arthur is on route home safe and sound! What a star he is! He will be back next year and with hopefully a more normal prep compared to this year where everything that could go wrong went wrong! But I still can't see Tiger Roll being beaten next year again with another clear round!


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## oakey14 (7 April 2019)

EKW said:



			There is less than a week to go until the greatest jumps race on the calendar! 5.15pm Saturday 6th of April 40 horses will line up, 40 horses will hear the roar, 40 horses will thunder down to the first fence (I wish they didn't go quite as quick!) Hopefully 40 horses will stay on their feet but most importantly that all 40 horses come back in to their devoted lads/lasses and back to their comfy stables for their dinner.

I would love to see Arthur win again. Who wouldn't!?!?! I know he hasn't exactly had the ideal preperation this time round but everything has come together in time. He just needs a clean round again and he should have a chance of bringing home some decent prize money again!

Saying that I can't see Tiger Roll being beaten if he stays on his feet. He has done what no other National winner has done in a long time - won another good race again! Very few win again ever but he seems to be even better than ever this year!

I would love Captain Redbeard to get a run again. It would be good to see another grey and Scottish based horse win - but then the personal rivallry in me hopes that Lake View Lad doesn't!

Gordon Elliott goes in mob handed with at least 12 runners! Possibly 16 if they all get in and I wouldn't dismiss one of his outsiders.

What are you guys backing this year?
		
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Fair play to Tiger Roll , never thought any horse would come close to Rummy with 2 successive wins , I don't think that any horse will beat his record of 3 wins and 2 seconds absolute legend that he was ... But hat's off to the little fella, he ran a canny race and proved his doubters wrong proper Tiger lol ... And RIP Up for Review so sad ðŸ˜¢


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## Elf On A Shelf (7 April 2019)

I do sometimes wonder why anti-racing people join racing pages. They go on just to shout their protests but usually either get shot down or totally ignored! 

Luckily out of the hundreds and hundreds of comments and messages we have had on the yards fb page over the last few days only 2 have been anti-racing. I have ignored them. I am not deleting their comments because everyone is entitled to their opinions but I am not responding to them. And neither is anyone else. These people come out twice a year - for Cheltenham and for Aintree. Where are they when a horse falls at the last at Sedgefield (now that place really should be shut down!) On a Tuesday afternoon? Nowhere!

Yes racing can be hard at times but sadly fatalities do happen despite racings bet efforts to element risk. You can never remove 100% of the risk.


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## meleeka (7 April 2019)

EKW said:



			Yes racing can be hard at times but sadly fatalities do happen despite racings bet efforts to element risk. You can never remove 100% of the risk.
		
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This is a genuine question because I donâ€™t know the answer.  What efforts are actually made to reduce the risk?   Obviously I know that field numbers have been reduced over the years.


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## be positive (7 April 2019)

meleeka said:



			This is a genuine question because I donâ€™t know the answer.  What efforts are actually made to reduce the risk?   Obviously I know that field numbers have been reduced over the years.
		
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So much has been done, and is still being done, to help reduce the risks for racehorses in general as well as those in the GN but no measures can prevent them completely, the GN fences were made 'safer' there are escape routes to help reduce the loose horses on the main track, the horses are far better schooled than they used to be with most, probably all, trainers having similar fences to school over before the day.
The first fence is always the worst in my view because the horses are usually very revved up by the parade, noise, atmosphere which will get to them as they set off so even with the jockeys trying to remain steady some get there too fast and come down which is where the fall happened yesterday, the pre race build up is becoming more over the top, the crowds seem to be more loud and very near the horses which may contribute to the rush at the start and may be the only thing left that could be altered but I guess it is encouraged to gain more publicity and more spectators through the gates.
There is no way racing can ever prevent fatalities completely but they are definitely trying in many ways, I was pleased to see several taken to the wash boxes yesterday but did feel for Tiger Roll who had to put up with rather a lot of 'praise' for his efforts when he looked so tired, they had got plenty of water on him quickly but being constantly thumped and hugged was not nice viewing in my opinion but I am sure he soon got over it.


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## Honeylight (7 April 2019)

I have been attacked by friends for watching racing and especially at this time of the year, when the fluffies crawl out of the Lush soap bars...
Did anyone look at the Horsemart Facebook over the last week? They were running a poll on the Grand National. Initially it was fairly close but it increasingly filled with radical animal rights people, there was so much ignorance and the posts were so filled with hate, towards the end there were just another person and I, it was a bit scary and the admin didn't seem very good. In the end the we managed to get the post taken down. I looked up some of the posters, some were extremely frightening radical people, need less to add most wouldn't know a horse if they saw one in a street. They are out there, they are organised and they hate racing and horses and hate people who have pets, we need to prepare for a back lash this coming week.


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## Elf On A Shelf (7 April 2019)

meleeka said:



			This is a genuine question because I donâ€™t know the answer.  What efforts are actually made to reduce the risk?   Obviously I know that field numbers have been reduced over the years.
		
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In jumps racing in general the ground can be no quicker than Good, good to firm in places. You cant jump on hard ground - same as you wouldnt risk your eventer or show jumper on rock solid ground. A lot of courses are now adopting the foam hurdles which are far softer on the legs if they clip the top of them, they a lighter too so give way easier if a horse batters them. 

Chase fences can not be above a certain height or width. Some courses have softer fences than others - they aren't stuffed with as much birch so you can go through them if you hit them. The likes of Hexham and Kelso have nice, soft enough  slightly smaller fences, Newcastle and Haydock are known for their stiff fences - up to height and tight with birch. You still need to get through them though and racecourse inspectors are out every so often checking that they haven't been over stuffed to make them solid and unforgiving. 

For the Cheltenham and Aintree festivals every single horse that ran had to submit medical forms stating any drugs the horse had been given in the 3/4 weeks leading up to the event and every horse got trotted up by the vets the morning it was due to race. 

Cheltenham reduced some field sizes. I do agree with a lot of people about the 4 mile amatuers race - having it as a novice chase is stupid - young horses in their first or second season chasing having never ran over 4 miles before combined with an amatuer (dont get me wrong there are a hell of a lot of good amatuers out there but equally there are some that are amatuers because they aren't good enough to turn pro) if they changed it to a handicap the horses would be older and far more experienced. The ground was always kept soft enough so it never got to the stage of Good - but that was more the rain though they would have watered if necessary. They removed Conditionals Claims in the Boys race so trainers would use the best conditional available and not the one who would take off the most weight- the most inexperienced. 

Aintree have made the National fences softer - you can go through the top 3ft of them. Its all just fluffed up spruce brances. There is strict criteria for horses and jockeys competing over the big fences. Any jockey who has not been over the big fences at least twice before had to do a course walk and they all got a good lecture before hand.


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## Ambers Echo (7 April 2019)

I think reducing the size of the field would help. I can't get the image of that awful fall at the first  out of my head. I know that suffering you see is not worse than suffering behind closed doors which is why people who eat factory farmed meat who focus on cruelty in racing strike me as illogical ..... but before the race the girls said 'will any horses die?' and i had to answer 'several will fall and some may not get up' and the fact that this is totally predictable made me question how I can enjoy watching it. The danger adds  nothing to the drama for me. I want to see clean jumping horses battling out to see who is strongest. Horses falling and bringing down others adds nothing and I am not sure I can watch again.


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## Clodagh (7 April 2019)

Tiger Roll was awesome. Love Davey Russell, he was having nothing to do with Rishi until he knew the horse was OK. It was Davey who saw Many Clouds was about to collapse after his win and dived in to help - what a horseman! It was worth him keepinmg him mouth shut when O'Leary sacked him before!!
Magic of Light was amazing, buit it was Arthur I couldn't believe. I had no idea why he was even in the race having been incapable of popping a fence all year (shows why I am not a racehorse trainer!). He was going like a train at the end.


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## Rowreach (7 April 2019)

Ambers Echo said:



			I think reducing the size of the field would help. I can't get the image of that awful fall at the first  out of my head. I know that suffering you see is not worse than suffering behind closed doors which is why people who eat factory farmed meat who focus on cruelty in racing strike me as illogical ..... but before the race the girls said 'will any horses die?' and i had to answer 'several will fall and some may not get up' and the fact that this is totally predictable made me question how I can enjoy watching it. The danger adds  nothing to the drama for me. I want to see clean jumping horses battling out to see who is strongest. Horses falling and bringing down others adds nothing and I am not sure I can watch again.
		
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As someone who has worked in racing, ridden in point to points, and been a lifelong follower of NH racing, I found the image of Up For Review in spasms after he fell and broke his neck absolutely sickening.  Of course it happens, but I find the argument of "it can happen in the field" rather spurious, as a horse hooleying round the field is in a slightly different situation than one trained for and brought to the race track, whatever the occasion.

The safety improvements so far are all good things, but I'd like to see a reduction in numbers for the GN.

I too was uncomfortable with the way Tiger Roll was slapped and crowded afterwards.  A win like this suddenly becomes all about the people and not about the horse.


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## Rowreach (7 April 2019)

Clodagh said:



			Tiger Roll was awesome. Love Davey Russell, he was having nothing to do with Rishi until he knew the horse was OK. It was Davey who saw Many Clouds was about to collapse after his win and dived in to help - what a horseman! It was worth him keepinmg him mouth shut when O'Leary sacked him before!!
Magic of Light was amazing, buit it was Arthur I couldn't believe. I had no idea why he was even in the race having been incapable of popping a fence all year (shows why I am not a racehorse trainer!). He was going like a train at the end.
		
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Agree about Davy ðŸ˜ƒ


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## NinjaPony (7 April 2019)

I have to say I find the National too tough to watch, and I donâ€™t consider myself an uninformed anti-racing protestor... I really wish they would cut the field to 20 top class horses, it would prevent so much crowding, falling, bringing others down etc. Accidents happen in any field but I canâ€™t help feeling there is more they should be doing.


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## Clodagh (7 April 2019)

Rowreach said:



			I too was uncomfortable with the way Tiger Roll was slapped and crowded afterwards.  A win like this suddenly becomes all about the people and not about the horse.
		
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I thought they werre talking about not taking the horses into the winners enclosure, it was completely unecessary after he had given his all.


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## Elf On A Shelf (7 April 2019)

Clodagh said:



			Magic of Light was amazing, buit it was Arthur I couldn't believe. I had no idea why he was even in the race having been incapable of popping a fence all year (shows why I am not a racehorse trainer!). He was going like a train at the end.
		
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Yee of little faith ðŸ˜‰ lol! To be fair everything was stacked against him this year. At home as well as at the track and it really all did come together in the last 2 or 3 weeks! He schooled really well round Carlisle a few weeks ago but he was built for the Aintree fences. His first unseat at the start of the season was entirely the jockeys fault. The next at Haydock was just stupid. And I do think the lack of an actual race told at the end of the National. He got to 4th at the elbow then folded. But he came home safe, he is bright and happy out in the field this morning. That's Arthur done for the season and will be prepper for next years Nationl with hopefully no more blips!

Davy Russell is something else! 

Have you seen the interview Racing Tv have just put up of O'Leary and Gordon Elliot? Gordon is clearly nished and a pewt! He is staring into space with his mouth open looking like a stunned goldfish ðŸ¤£ðŸ˜‚


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## bonny (7 April 2019)

I think what happened yesterday was just an unfortunate accident, all the horses jumped fine, there canâ€™t be another national where 37 of the runners went out on the second circuit and that must be the fewest fallers in the whole race, ever. The horse was brought down by vintage clouds falling after over jumping at the first, the rest of the horses soon learnt that they didnâ€™t need to get very high after that ! Just unfortunate that there was a death when so many people are just watching so they can criticise afterwards and as usual ignore all the safety improvements brought in. Iâ€™m sure tiger roll walking into the winners enclosure didnâ€™t harm him in any way and itâ€™s nice for the crowds to see such a legend of a horse afterwards. I imagine heâ€™ll be following Arthur for his summer holidays soon .....


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## Sandstone1 (7 April 2019)

I watched it for the first time in a few years as I hate to see the fallers.
The fatal fall looked bad and apparently there are people saying that the horse was lame before the race started.    A friend just showed me a clip of the horses in the paddock pre race and in my eyes Up for review did look slightly lame.
I am no fan of racing and will no doubt get slated for mentioning it but the friend that showed me is not horsey at all and was upset that the horse was allowed to run if not 100%.
I had not heard it but apparently there is a lot of talk on the internet about it.


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## Snowfilly (7 April 2019)

I think it was one of the best nationals for many years, and to see so many go round onto the second circuit was lovely. 

Yes, One for Review's death was horrible and it was sickening to see; I guessed it was fatal, but he was brought down by another horse which is one of the problems with large fields.

What I don't get is where the anti racing people are the rest of the year? They seem to come out for certain races, and there's nothing said about a middle of the road hurdler dying in a novice race on a January afternoon, but they should be protesting equally if they really care. Weirdly, some of the worst antis I know eat meat without a second thought, and seem to have a nasty class element in their attitudes as well.

But lovely to see Tiger Roll winning, and a great run from Arthur, EKW. You must be very proud!


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## Sandstone1 (7 April 2019)

As I said I havent watched it for a few years but apart from the horrible fall it wasnt as bad as I remember.
I have just had this conversation with the friend that showed me the clip saying that there are many horses killed in smaller races all year round and the national does get a lot more publicity.


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## Elf On A Shelf (7 April 2019)

Every single horse was trotted up by a professional vet team the morning of the race. If the horse was not 100% sound it would not have ran. The vets wouldn't have allowed it to. What made the viewing worse was that it was a head on shot that couldnt be panned away from quickly. Up For Review did not fall because of the fences, he fell over another horse that was already down - Vintage Clouds who walked away with some grass stains and nothing more. The side on camera angles arw much easier to scoot away with as they follow the leaders. The head on not so much.


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## cundlegreen (7 April 2019)

be positive said:



			So much has been done, and is still being done, to help reduce the risks for racehorses in general as well as those in the GN but no measures can prevent them completely, the GN fences were made 'safer' there are escape routes to help reduce the loose horses on the main track, the horses are far better schooled than they used to be with most, probably all, trainers having similar fences to school over before the day.
The first fence is always the worst in my view because the horses are usually very revved up by the parade, noise, atmosphere which will get to them as they set off so even with the jockeys trying to remain steady some get there too fast and come down which is where the fall happened yesterday, the pre race build up is becoming more over the top, the crowds seem to be more loud and very near the horses which may contribute to the rush at the start and may be the only thing left that could be altered but I guess it is encouraged to gain more publicity and more spectators through the gates.
There is no way racing can ever prevent fatalities completely but they are definitely trying in many ways, I was pleased to see several taken to the wash boxes yesterday but did feel for Tiger Roll who had to put up with rather a lot of 'praise' for his efforts when he looked so tired, they had got plenty of water on him quickly but being constantly thumped and hugged was not nice viewing in my opinion but I am sure he soon got over it.
		
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He certainly did get over it! There was a clip of him later parading with his rug on. Jig jogging all the way past the stands, and looked ready to go again. I thought her looked an absolute picture in the parade ring. Full summer coat and beautifully turned out.


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## scats (7 April 2019)

Iâ€™m not a fan of racing simply because it doesnâ€™t interest me, but I do generally watch the national as Iâ€™ve been brought up with it - my family are from Aintree, nans house is just the other side of the course.  I hate seeing the fallers and Up For Review was a particularly horrible thing to witness.  My heart goes out to the stable lad/lass of that horse, as Iâ€™m not sure I would ever get that image out of my head.

I donâ€™t know much about racing, but how much safer would it be if the field was reduced to 30 runners rather than 40?


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## Sandstone1 (7 April 2019)

EKW said:



			Every single horse was trotted up by a professional vet team the morning of the race. If the horse was not 100% sound it would not have ran. The vets wouldn't have allowed it to. What made the viewing worse was that it was a head on shot that couldnt be panned away from quickly. Up For Review did not fall because of the fences, he fell over another horse that was already down - Vintage Clouds who walked away with some grass stains and nothing more. The side on camera angles arw much easier to scoot away with as they follow the leaders. The head on not so much.
		
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Yes.  I realise that they are checked by a vet prior to racing.  However in the clip I was shown he did look slightly lame.
The camera angle is not really the issue.   The horse fell and the fact is horses do fall and often its fatal.    No camera angle will change that.


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## meleeka (7 April 2019)

Snowfilly said:



			I think it was one of the best nationals for many years, and to see so many go round onto the second circuit was lovely.

!
		
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I think this is what Iâ€™m uncomfortable with, the fact that itâ€™s not expected that so many will finish without falling.


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## Clodagh (7 April 2019)

Sandstone1 said:



			Yes.  I realise that they are checked by a vet prior to racing.  However in the clip I was shown he did look slightly lame.
The camera angle is not really the issue.   The horse fell and the fact is horses do fall and often its fatal.    No camera angle will change that.
		
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Lame or not - and remember many a top racehorse has stringhalt for example, see if you can find a video of Big Bucks walking round the paddock, you wouldn't take him on as a freebie! - his death was caused by crashing into another horse at a flat gallop and whether he was lame or not is quite irrelevant. I also find it deeply unlikely that he was lame, Willie Mullins does know a bit about horses, let alone all the vets that passed him.


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## Amymay (7 April 2019)

Well, weather youâ€™re for it or against it - I am in awe of all those horses.  They are such incredible athletes, eating up the ground and taking on those fences with absolute bravery.

The jumping yesterday was truly epic, and I salute every single one of them.

I find it very emotional watching it because of the courage of each and every horse.

Long live The National!


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## splashgirl45 (7 April 2019)

i am a jump racing fan but still cant bring myself to watch the national live as i had picked Dark Ivy many years ago , he was a lovely looking horse and i still cant get the image of his fatal fall out of my head and i can only watch once i know the outcome of the fallers.  it was a good race this year (apart from the first fence) and tiger roll deserved to win,  i still think less runners would help so they all have a little more room at the fences and still think the more experienced horses should be given priority when choosing the runners...


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## Clodagh (7 April 2019)

amymay said:



			Well, weather youâ€™re for it or against it - I am in awe of all those horses.  They are such incredible athletes, eating up the ground and taking on those fences with absolute bravery.

The jumping yesterday was truly epic, and I salute every single one of them.

I find it very emotional watching it because of the courage of each and every horse.

Long live The National!
		
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I cry at all the retro bits, like Red Rum and so on.


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## Amymay (7 April 2019)

Clodagh said:



			I cry at all the retro bits, like Red Rum and so on. 

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Itâ€™s Red Marauder that gets me. Never a braver horse.


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## TheresaW (7 April 2019)

Like someone else posted above, I donâ€™t really follow racing, as I just donâ€™t have any interest in it. I used to work for a betting shop though and have worked at Cheltenham on gold cup day (one of the busiest days of my life), and also Kempton one Boxing Day.  On the odd chances I had to sneak out for a break, the horses are amazing. I do watch the national, donâ€™t have a bet, but take part in the sweepstake at work. I had Tea for Two this year.

My FB has been littered with anti-national posts yesterday and today. Much like everyone on here, I hate the fatalities, it makes me quite ðŸ˜¡ that the people posting left right and centre right now, had nothing to say during Cheltenham week. 

Weâ€™ve had a fair few foals of a certain type dumped around here in the last couple of months, one of which was very close to where I keep my horses. She later was euthanised at the vets.  Those are the horses people really should be getting up in arms and shouting about.

On a side note, I watch the national and think, how amazing would it be to ride in that race? Doll in her younger days would have probably loved to go round it. Would have probably taken about an hour and a half, and I donâ€™t jump, but imagine the high at the end.


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## Clodagh (7 April 2019)

amymay said:



			Itâ€™s Red Marauder that gets me. Never a braver horse.
		
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I hate that one - not the horse! - it was true cruelty that year, no way should it have been run.


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## Elf On A Shelf (7 April 2019)

Clodagh said:



			I hate that one - not the horse! - it was true cruelty that year, no way should it have been run.
		
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That wasn't the best example of racing that year. It was foot and mouth, cheltenham had been abandoned and racing needed something to keep going with. But it didnt need to in that deep muck. It was daft.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (7 April 2019)

Interestingly watching the re run on pretty sure Tiger Roll had his nosebleed over the water the first time, how come they said Politologue bleeding from the nose potentially affected his performance Friday but Tiger was potentially bleeding for at least a circuit of the grand national and was still able to win?

Being fairly soft I'd retire him on this high but for all Micheal O Leary says about worrying about him theres no way he wont resist going for the hat trick. He would make someone a great ROR

Interesting observation from OH- How come they have all these fans and cooling tents at the Grand National meeting but not these meetings in the baking hot summer/ Gold Cup? Do any other race meetings have them? The cynic says because the Grand National is so in the spotlight but is it just because it's such a long race? I'd also have liked to see TR taken there first then allowed to do his lap of honour once he'd been cooled down, people could still have appreciated him then and would have understood why he'd been allowed to be cooled off first. I've seen the cooling tents used for eventing too.

The jumps do seem a little too easy now compared to how they used to be they were just scraping over them.


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## Elf On A Shelf (7 April 2019)

Quite a few tracks bring in the cooling fans in summer. Perth and Cartmel certainly do. They make a big thing of it Aintree because they can.

Nosebleeds affect horses in different ways. Yes it can affect some and not others. It depends where the bleed has come from, of its lungs or somewhere else along the way.

I do believe O'Leary when he says no more Nationals for Tiger Roll. If he wins at Cheltenham next year I really wouldn't be surprised to see him retired there and then to  go and live on their stud farm. Yes the man is a complete tosspot at times but I do think this horse has really grown on him.


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## blodwyn1 (7 April 2019)

How do you think he would do in a gold cup? I think he could have won it this  year! That would be a great way to retire!


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## Clodagh (7 April 2019)

blodwyn1 said:



			How do you think he would do in a gold cup? I think he could have won it this  year! That would be a great way to retire!
		
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I would love to see him in the GC, but I would also love him to retire sound and unbeasten, and the risk of being beaten in a GC is just too high. He's a little cracker!


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## Crazy_cat_lady (7 April 2019)

Is it just me or does anyone else find the ITV Social Stable really irritating?

If I recall didn't I think it was BBC used to send one of their ex jockeys to ride a couple of the well fancied horses at work? I'd love if they could do this I'd find it interesting especially as they have AP on the team, liked the feature they did last year I think it was where he rode round some of the fences and explained what he was doing. 

Would love if in some races it was like the F1 where you can ride onboard with your chosen driver imagine if you could do that with the Jockeys, even if they couldn't do it live would be great if they all wore on one then they uploaded the footage after and you could choose who to watch.


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## Amymay (7 April 2019)

The ITV coverage was average to say the least. And the SS was abominable.


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## Elf On A Shelf (7 April 2019)

Crazy_cat_lady said:



			Is it just me or does anyone else find the ITV Social Stable really irritating?

If I recall didn't I think it was BBC used to send one of their ex jockeys to ride a couple of the well fancied horses at work? I'd love if they could do this I'd find it interesting especially as they have AP on the team, liked the feature they did last year I think it was where he rode round some of the fences and explained what he was doing. 

Would love if in some races it was like the F1 where you can ride onboard with your chosen driver imagine if you could do that with the Jockeys, even if they couldn't do it live would be great if they all wore on one then they uploaded the footage after and you could choose who to watch.
		
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Some jockeys wear hat cams but I dont think any jockey wears one in the National now as it became a bit of a bad luck charm. I dont think anyone made it beyond a circuit wearing one. Sam Thomas had it on one year in beautiful sunshine. You got this lovely starfished human shadow flying over the fence and to the floor minus the horse who had declined to actually jump the fence!


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## Crazy_cat_lady (7 April 2019)

EKW said:



			Some jockeys wear hat cams but I dont think any jockey wears one in the National now as it became a bit of a bad luck charm. I dont think anyone made it beyond a circuit wearing one. Sam Thomas had it on one year in beautiful sunshine. You got this lovely starfished human shadow flying over the fence and to the floor minus the horse who had declined to actually jump the fence!
		
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I think I remember that it was funny but not funny at the same time as you could almost feel the impact! Albeit without the headcam years ago when Mark Todd won Badminton on Horton Point they had him on afterwards talking through his round, I was only young but found it interesting, maybe if they all had hat cams on the luck element is ruled out we could then have had Davy Russell talking through his footage afterwards of his hat cam and his thoughts/ positioning etc. I'd far prefer that even if uploaded a couple of days later and would find it really interesting, I think an eventer uploaded one of their round at Burghley last year on Facebook which I really enjoyed as it was the closest I'll get to riding at burghley and you also got the scale of the course.


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## Clodagh (7 April 2019)

I gave up with ITV and watched RUK.


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## Mariposa (7 April 2019)

I really liked the coverage - I think they're a great team and they need to make it user-friendly for Grand National day as loads on non-racing-fans will be tuned in. Thought Bryony spoke as poetically and well as we expect now, Chris Hughes will have appealed to young fans ( and we need those younger fans to get into racing!) - he's actually knowledgeable if you listen to him, his dad works at Jackdaws I believe, and he rides out for Jonjo regularly - it's good that we have these 'celebs' ( if you can call him that?!) who are so passionate about the sport. He was on twitter earlier really defending racing, good on him! 

I also really like Ed Chamberlain and the rest of the team - it is a hard job trying to engage with everyone from the hardened racing fan to someone who only watches racing once a year, but I do think they get the balance right.

As for the race itself, wasn't Tiger Roll amazing? What a little star, and Davy rode his socks off. The fatality was awful, the poor Wylies to lose a third horse, it did that the shine off a great race. Was he lame? I didn't think so ( but was it just me or was One For Rosie lame behind before the stayer's hurdle? She looked really uneven to me but still ran a blinder!)


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## bonny (7 April 2019)

I canâ€™t see tiger roll going for a third national, it must be a tough decision what to do if you are lucky enough to own a horse like him. I doubt we will see him in another handicap,heâ€™s just too highly rated now to risk him. Heâ€™s only 15 2 and top weight would be a big ask....


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## islander (7 April 2019)

I also certainly found the Social Stable very annoying, though I hadn`t a clue who Chris Hughes was until I Googled him, and grudgingly agree he seemed knowledgeable and enthusiastic.

Although Tiger Roll is a great little horse and had a brilliant win, the excessive coverage of him beforehand when I would have liked to see\hear more about other runners, I also found irritating. Mind you, today I felt the same about the coverage of the Boat Race, concentrating so much on James Cracknell, although again I agree his was a stupendous achievement.

I expect I`m just a Grumpy Old Woman.


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## Clodagh (7 April 2019)

I didn't think ITV actually showed a horse, they are far more obsessed with people. Bryony was amazing though - did you see her on the opening show? She is a broadcasters dream. When she described being at the start and feeling your horses heartbeat, she really nailed it.


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## Clodagh (7 April 2019)

islander said:



			. Mind you, today I felt the same about the coverage of the Boat Race, concentrating so much on James Cracknell, although again I agree his was a stupendous achievement.

I expect I`m just a Grumpy Old Woman.
		
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Gosh, having watched that, are you saying there were other people in the boat with him!?


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## Tihamandturkey (7 April 2019)

splashgirl45 said:



			i am a jump racing fan but still cant bring myself to watch the national live as i had picked Dark Ivy many years ago , he was a lovely looking horse and i still cant get the image of his fatal fall out of my head and i can only watch once i know the outcome of the fallers.  it was a good race this year (apart from the first fence) and tiger roll deserved to win,  i still think less runners would help so they all have a little more room at the fences and still think the more experienced horses should be given priority when choosing the runners...
		
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Dark Ivy is the reason I can't watch the National either ðŸ˜¥

I'm not anti though in fact I've just been arguing with people on FB who want to ban racing


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## bonny (7 April 2019)

Has anyone seen the pictures of tiger roll parading through the town today ? What an amazing horse, he looks like he knows he is a superstar x


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## Mucking out - still (8 April 2019)

Lots of comments on here to agree with - Tiger Roll is a superstar, no-one could say anything else, could they?  Whilst I love NH racing (from my armchair) to see the horses who clearly enjoy their job it's never nice to see those when they're pushed too far if they're back in the field with few fences left and don't respond, I'd far rather see them pulled up.  I have seen a huge improvement this year in jockeys not pushing when clearly beaten.  I too hate seeing injuries / fatalities - who does? - but it is all part of the risk.  

Welfare is a high priority for me and I like the efforts being made in this area.  I didn't see the race where the 3rd finisher was penalised, though it, to me, did sound unfair .... if a horse is so tired it's wobbly at the end, that's different to being tired through effort.

On that note, the one I think might not make a difference is the trotting up before the race for a vet.  Would be interested in views from EKW and others directly connected on this.  Not that I don't approve - of course I do - but am thinking that no trainer would run a horse they didn't feel is 100%.  Maybe I'm being naiive but we're all repeatedly assured that racehorses live like kings (not saying I would like all methods used on every yard!!) and get the very best treatment.

Just to finish - I still watch the National, but Dark Ivy is the one who stopped me ever betting again and I never pick less than 6 to finish or willingly voice my choices either!!


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## Elf On A Shelf (8 April 2019)

Trotting up in the morning of a race for the vets is nothing new. Especially for big races, horses that have had time off injured or have spent the night in the racecourse stables. Any horse can get on the truck sound and bang itself in a strange stable over night. It also shows that the BHA are seen to be doing something about Welfare standards. 

I have never been eventing, I have no idea! Though I do know at higher levels you trot up before you even start the first day. I don't know if this is done at lower levels or not. 

Sometimes a fresh set of eyes sees something you don't because you see the horse day in day out. Trotting up is never a bad thing and only takes 30 seconds of your day. The vets can spin anything and ask for a second trot up after the horse has been walked for 10/15 minutes to see if its just stiffness from standing in. 

In some of my random blog type posts I have always said that you wont always like how or why we do things the way we do. But then in return I might not agree with the way you keep your animals. Same as Jane Doe next door might not agree with anyone and spends her life waving around carrot sticks! 

One thing I do say, especially to people taking on ex-racers straight from training is to come into the yard to see how we ride the horses. Once you understand how we do it you can then go away and figure out how you are going to change that and it will be easier.


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## Mucking out - still (8 April 2019)

Thanks for responding, EKW.  It does sound similar to eventing and, as I said, fully support.  You're absolutely right that another set of eyes is never a bad thing.  Coverage from Cheltenham etc made it sound as though this was a new step and I guess had I thought it through, would have been surprised if it wasn't in use already.

You are spot on with liking / disliking other people's methods whether on professional yards or at livery or home.  I encourage others on the yard I'm at to question how and why I do things as, especially given being an owner for many years, bad habits can creep in or just plain ignorance despite length of time as an owner, no-one knows everything!!  I love finding new or better ways and if my horse benefits that's no bad thing.

No plans to rehome an ex-racer - I think my body is getting too old to do justice to re-educating one of these wonderful athletes, unless it really is a dope on a rope, think it would be looking for someone up for a bit more fun than me these days


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## splashgirl45 (8 April 2019)

ElectricChampagne said:



			I never once labelled her difficult or nasty - could you show me where I did?

I love her to bits so don't see why I should sell.
		
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Mucking out - still said:



			Lots of comments on here to agree with - Tiger Roll is a superstar, no-one could say anything else, could they?  Whilst I love NH racing (from my armchair) to see the horses who clearly enjoy their job it's never nice to see those when they're pushed too far if they're back in the field with few fences left and don't respond, I'd far rather see them pulled up.  I have seen a huge improvement this year in jockeys not pushing when clearly beaten.  I too hate seeing injuries / fatalities - who does? - but it is all part of the risk. 

Welfare is a high priority for me and I like the efforts being made in this area.  I didn't see the race where the 3rd finisher was penalised, though it, to me, did sound unfair .... if a horse is so tired it's wobbly at the end, that's different to being tired through effort.

On that note, the one I think might not make a difference is the trotting up before the race for a vet.  Would be interested in views from EKW and others directly connected on this.  Not that I don't approve - of course I do - but am thinking that no trainer would run a horse they didn't feel is 100%.  Maybe I'm being naiive but we're all repeatedly assured that racehorses live like kings (not saying I would like all methods used on every yard!!) and get the very best treatment.

Just to finish - I still watch the National, but Dark Ivy is the one who stopped me ever betting again and I never pick less than 6 to finish or willingly voice my choices either!!
		
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thats odd,  3 of us badly affected by Dark Ivy,  thought it was only me,  this is why i only watch the re run


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## splashgirl45 (8 April 2019)

Mucking out - still said:



			Lots of comments on here to agree with - Tiger Roll is a superstar, no-one could say anything else, could they?  Whilst I love NH racing (from my armchair) to see the horses who clearly enjoy their job it's never nice to see those when they're pushed too far if they're back in the field with few fences left and don't respond, I'd far rather see them pulled up.  I have seen a huge improvement this year in jockeys not pushing when clearly beaten.  I too hate seeing injuries / fatalities - who does? - but it is all part of the risk.

Welfare is a high priority for me and I like the efforts being made in this area.  I didn't see the race where the 3rd finisher was penalised, though it, to me, did sound unfair .... if a horse is so tired it's wobbly at the end, that's different to being tired through effort.

On that note, the one I think might not make a difference is the trotting up before the race for a vet.  Would be interested in views from EKW and others directly connected on this.  Not that I don't approve - of course I do - but am thinking that no trainer would run a horse they didn't feel is 100%.  Maybe I'm being naiive but we're all repeatedly assured that racehorses live like kings (not saying I would like all methods used on every yard!!) and get the very best treatment.

Just to finish - I still watch the National, but Dark Ivy is the one who stopped me ever betting again and I never pick less than 6 to finish or willingly voice my choices either!!
		
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thats odd , 3 of us affected by Dark Ivy.  thats why i will only watch the re run

sorry, tried to delete the other quote but seem to have double posted instead!!!!!


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## Archangel (8 April 2019)

splashgirl45 said:



			thats odd , 3 of us affected by Dark Ivy.
		
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Make that 4 affected.


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## bonny (8 April 2019)

Archangel said:



			Make that 4 affected.
		
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Maybe itâ€™s time you all moved on !


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## Tiddlypom (8 April 2019)

bonny said:



			Maybe itâ€™s time you all moved on !
		
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Speechless


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## Elf On A Shelf (8 April 2019)

bonny said:



			Maybe itâ€™s time you all moved on !
		
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...


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## bonny (8 April 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			Speechless 

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It was years ago, a lot of bad things have happened since.......actually if you are still traumatised years later why even comment let alone watch the national ?


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## Amymay (8 April 2019)

bonny said:



			Maybe itâ€™s time you all moved on !
		
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You really are a piece of work at times.


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## splashgirl45 (8 April 2019)

i am not a fluffy bunny by any means but that death really affected me,   i have moved on but was explaining why i didnt watch the race till the re run.  maybe you didnt see it, but those of us who did were upset by it....you sound like a lovely person!!!!!


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## minesadouble (8 April 2019)

i remember the death of Dark Ivy too, he probably sticks in everyone's memory because of his looks and colour and because he received so much media. Attention prior to the race. 
The loss of Roll a Joint sticks in my mind as he was such a gutsy little horse and was one of my favourites of the time. 
I don't feel traumatised by it though. 
When I was about 7 I remember a riding school horse that had been hit by a bus being led back to the yard where I kept my pony. It was covered in blood and later died in the stable. That sticks. In my mind though  while it was upsetting I wouldn't go so far as to say I felt traumatised.


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## Elf On A Shelf (8 April 2019)

You guys HAVE to read this Twitter thread! It is just utterly awesome! I know it's PETA but it really is well worth it !!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113077568750673920


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## ester (8 April 2019)

Lol I love some of the replies!


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## splashgirl45 (8 April 2019)

minesadouble said:



			i remember the death of Dark Ivy too, he probably sticks in everyone's memory because of his looks and colour and because he received so much media. Attention prior to the race.
The loss of Roll a Joint sticks in my mind as he was such a gutsy little horse and was one of my favourites of the time.
I don't feel traumatised by it though.
When I was about 7 I remember a riding school horse that had been hit by a bus being led back to the yard where I kept my pony. It was covered in blood and later died in the stable. That sticks. In my mind though  while it was upsetting I wouldn't go so far as to say I felt traumatised.
		
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the only person who said traumatised was bonny,  the rest of us said we were affected by dark ivy the same as you were affected by roll a joint...slightly different!!!!


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## bonny (8 April 2019)

splashgirl45 said:



			the only person who said traumatised was bonny,  the rest of us said we were affected by dark ivy the same as you were affected by roll a joint...slightly different!!!!
		
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Why do you all keep going on about him then ? Iâ€™ve watched and been involved in racing for many years and can remember a lot of sad occasions of horse deaths but I donâ€™t watch now remembering them, there wouldnâ€™t be any point or enjoyment in the present if I did. In the same way, Iâ€™ve seen horses die eventing, showjumping, hunting and at home, either you accept it happens or choose not to be involved in the horse world. Bad things happen but for me Iâ€™d rather remember the star horses and the great races rather than constantly dwell on the down side.


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## Amymay (8 April 2019)

bonny said:



			Why do you all keep going on about him then ?
		
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Not _all_ are going on about him, just a few.

And as far as I remember what makes us human is our compassion.  Something you seem to be wholey lacking.


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## bonny (8 April 2019)

amymay said:



			Not _all_ are going on about him, just a few.

And as far as I remember what makes us human is our compassion.  Something you seem to be wholey lacking.
		
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Really, Iâ€™m not human because I can watch the grand national without dwelling on horses lost in it !


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## splashgirl45 (8 April 2019)

this forum used  to be friendly and tolerant,  we all think differently and there is no wrong or right...these days it seems some people have forgotten this......


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## Amymay (8 April 2019)

bonny said:



			Really, Iâ€™m not human because I can watch the grand national without dwelling on horses lost in it !
		
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Youâ€™re one of the rare members of our race lacking in compassion. Thankfully theyâ€™re far and few between.


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## bonny (8 April 2019)

amymay said:



			Youâ€™re one of the rare members of our race lacking in compassion. Thankfully theyâ€™re far and few between.
		
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You have no idea, I am as sentimental as the next person about animals, Iâ€™ve sat and cried at the deaths of my own horses and the deaths of strangers horses but I also love racing and reading Facebook etc every year at this time itâ€™s worrying how many people want it banned. This was supposed to be a thread about one for Arthurâ€™s big day, ironic that the stable lost a horse too. There are highs and there are awful lows in all aspects of horse ownership and I for one wish we could celebrate sometimes without dwelling on the lows. That doesnâ€™t make me lack compassion


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## minesadouble (9 April 2019)

splashgirl45 said:



			the only person who said traumatised was bonny,  the rest of us said we were affected by dark ivy the same as you were affected by roll a joint...slightly different!!!!
		
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Apologies - I knew I'd picked the word up from somewhere! 
I was saddened by Roll a 
Joint's death but it hasn't stopped me enjoying the Grand National. 
We all process things in different ways I guess.


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## Tihamandturkey (9 April 2019)

EKW said:



			You guys HAVE to read this Twitter thread! It is just utterly awesome! I know it's PETA but it really is well worth it !!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113077568750673920

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That's priceless ðŸ˜†


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## Orangehorse (9 April 2019)

bonny said:



			You have no idea, I am as sentimental as the next person about animals, Iâ€™ve sat and cried at the deaths of my own horses and the deaths of strangers horses but I also love racing and reading Facebook etc every year at this time itâ€™s worrying how many people want it banned. This was supposed to be a thread about one for Arthurâ€™s big day, ironic that the stable lost a horse too. There are highs and there are awful lows in all aspects of horse ownership and I for one wish we could celebrate sometimes without dwelling on the lows. That doesnâ€™t make me lack compassion
		
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I'm the same.


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## Mucking out - still (9 April 2019)

It is odd, splashgirl.  Solong ago and sadly more have gone since.  I think for me, it's due to having put a bet on him - last time I ever have


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## bonny (9 April 2019)

For anyone reading this thread who isnâ€™t as old as some of us, Dark Ivy died in the 1987 grand national so 32 years ago and since then the race has changed out of all recognition. I donâ€™t think saying itâ€™s time to move on justified the comments about me from two posters but each to her own.


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## be positive (9 April 2019)

bonny said:



			For anyone reading this thread who isnâ€™t as old as some of us, Dark Ivy died in the 1987 grand national so 32 years ago and since then the race has changed out of all recognition. I donâ€™t think saying itâ€™s time to move on justified the comments about me from two posters but each to her own.
		
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What has also changed since then is how racing is reported, I think it remains in peoples minds in part because the photo was in all the newspapers the following day as well as being shown in the replays/ new reports, while is was probably done to sell papers, shock people, the owners, trainers, grooms and respect for the horse were given no consideration at all. 
We are given better information now without the need to replay any tragic incidents and there is far more consideration given to the feelings of everyone involved.


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## tristar (9 April 2019)

bonny said:



			For anyone reading this thread who isnâ€™t as old as some of us, Dark Ivy died in the 1987 grand national so 32 years ago and since then the race has changed out of all recognition. I donâ€™t think saying itâ€™s time to move on justified the comments about me from two posters but each to her own.
		
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sometimes things happens and change the way you view a situation, in this case the grand national, for me i no longer watch because there are to many horses, too many jumps, too fast, too many horses have died  and with age it has coloured my perspective of what i thought was a national event and spectacle, to something i feel is distasteful in the extreme, simply put i consider it to be too much to ask of a horse

i think seeing a bad end to a decent horse is the thing that turns the tables for a lot of people, they make a choice about what they think is acceptable to them, or not as in this case


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## tristar (9 April 2019)

splashgirl45 said:



			this forum used  to be friendly and tolerant,  we all think differently and there is no wrong or right...these days it seems some people have forgotten this......
		
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so true


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## bonny (9 April 2019)

tristar said:



			sometimes things happens and change the way you view a situation, in this case the grand national, for me i no longer watch because there are to many horses, too many jumps, too fast, too many horses have died  and with age it has coloured my perspective of what i thought was a national event and spectacle, to something i feel is distasteful in the extreme, simply put i consider it to be too much to ask of a horse

i think seeing a bad end to a decent horse is the thing that turns the tables for a lot of people, they make a choice about what they think is acceptable to them, or not as in this case
		
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So you came onto a thread about One For Arthurâ€™s attempt to win the National again to say that you find it distasteful in the extreme, why not just ignore the thread if thatâ€™s how you feel ?


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## tristar (9 April 2019)

bonny said:



			So you came onto a thread about One For Arthurâ€™s attempt to win the National again to say that you find it distasteful in the extreme, why not just ignore the thread if thatâ€™s how you feel ?
		
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its an open forum


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## Elf On A Shelf (9 April 2019)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I would hope that Tristar can take away a slightly different view of the National and Racing from this. 

No ones mind is ever changed by ignoring the situation and everyone (or most) is open to learning.


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## Bob notacob (10 April 2019)

Out hacking Bob the notacob, some years ago ,we fell in alongside another rider and got chatting. Turned out he worked for the jockey club .He asked me my opinion of the national (which I found strange as he didnt even know my background). I told nim in no uncertain terms that I would put the fences back up to full height circa 1925. That would slow the beggars down I said ,and make them ride a clear line rather than a racing line. More riders would hit the deck but less horses killed.  My new acquaintance then explained that ne was ditrectly involved with trying to make the national safer. He went on to explain the conundrum. Racing folk understand that bigger fences slow and spread out the field ,but the general public simply wouldnt get it. This was why the first fence was moved . It was at best  a bandaid on the problem . However the problem of the easier fences still speeds up the race . Go look at the old Pathe newsreels of the 20,s and 30,s . Yes there was some appalling amateur riding that wouldnt be permitted now ,but the race was safer.


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## Clodagh (10 April 2019)

tristar said:



			sometimes things happens and change the way you view a situation, in this case the grand national, for me i no longer watch because there are to many horses, too many jumps, too fast, too many horses have died  and with age it has coloured my perspective of what i thought was a national event and spectacle, to something i feel is distasteful in the extreme, simply put i consider it to be too much to ask of a horse

i think seeing a bad end to a decent horse is the thing that turns the tables for a lot of people, they make a choice about what they think is acceptable to them, or not as in this case
		
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Although my views are not as strong as yours, I do actually agree with everything you say. I used to love it, now I watch it if I am in the house.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 April 2019)

tristar said:



			i think seeing a bad end to a decent horse is the thing that turns the tables for a lot of people, they make a choice about what they think is acceptable to them, or not as in this case
		
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yep, dont watch racing, dont really agree with it (flat or NH-worked in flat for 3 years) so don't often post on this sort of thread - I know many decent people who do love it and am not about to argue with them about it. I am perfectly within my rights to post though, so here I am  

(whispers-dont care for eventing either)


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## tristar (10 April 2019)

MotherOfChickens said:



			yep, dont watch racing, dont really agree with it (flat or NH-worked in flat for 3 years) so don't often post on this sort of thread - I know many decent people who do love it and am not about to argue with them about it. I am perfectly within my rights to post though, so here I am  

(whispers-dont care for eventing either)
		
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same here, can`t sell any i`ve bred for eventing for similar reasons


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## bonny (10 April 2019)

I went on the ban the grand national Facebook page last night for a nosey and itâ€™s quite an eye opener ....itâ€™s not going to happen any time soon but maybe itâ€™s days are numbered and a lot of people would celebrate its demise. I think that would lead to a call to stop all racing, or change things significantly, dangerous sports just donâ€™t seem to be at all acceptable nowadays....maybe I should use the word risky not dangerous


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## littlefluffball (10 April 2019)

MotherOfChickens said:



			yep, dont watch racing, dont really agree with it (flat or NH-worked in flat for 3 years) so don't often post on this sort of thread - I know many decent people who do love it and am not about to argue with them about it. I am perfectly within my rights to post though, so here I am 

(whispers-dont care for eventing either)
		
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Another non fan here.  It just doesn't sit comfortably with me at all.  Would never argue with anyone about it though - each to their own. I do sometimes have to bite my tongue when the "it's folk that know nothing about it....." comments come out because, well, I do.  Don't get me wrong I am no expert in the racing industry but I am not a clueless fluffy bunny either with a delusional idea of a disney planet. I know enough about all the ex racehorses I have worked with over the years....

 On a bit of a tangent but a work colleague was arranging the sweepstake and it made me think how nice it would be if every bet that was placed was matched and donated to racehorse rehabilitation charities (or any horse charity really)  So I made it my personal mission to match his sweepstake takings to donate to the racehorse rehab charity!  Spent that night doing a tonne of baking and had a mini bake sale at work!  We only fell short of matching the sweepstake by Â£5 - but then one of the colleagues who won a fiver donated it to the chairty so it worked out well!  My friend/colleague who done the sweepstake pointed everyone in the direction of the cakes once they had picked their horse so most people who bet also donated.  Worked quite well I thought.


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## Elf On A Shelf (10 April 2019)

MotherOfChickens said:



			yep, dont watch racing, dont really agree with it (flat or NH-worked in flat for 3 years) so don't often post on this sort of thread - I know many decent people who do love it and am not about to argue with them about it. I am perfectly within my rights to post though, so here I am  

(whispers-dont care for eventing either)
		
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I do sometimes have to laugh when people are all for eventing and will shout down any nay-sayers yet want to ban racing. (Not you personally MOC you just happened to bring up eventing!) 

There isn't a huge amount of difference between eventing and racing - slower and individual - but the work is just as hard, if not harder and horses are only asked to race once, not perform to their best 3 days in a row for hours at a time (warm up etc.) Racing is a 30-40 minute lead up with a 20-30 minute lead cool down all in walk.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 April 2019)

bonny said:



			I went on the ban the grand national Facebook page last night for a nosey and itâ€™s quite an eye opener ....itâ€™s not going to happen any time soon but maybe itâ€™s days are numbered and a lot of people would celebrate its demise. I think that would lead to a call to stop all racing, or change things significantly, _dangerous sports _just donâ€™t seem to be at all acceptable nowadays....maybe I should use the word risky not dangerous
		
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I think people can choose to do all the dangerous sports they want but ethically I have a problem with using animals for risky entertainment as tristar says, there are certain red lines that we set for ourselves. There's no doubt in my mind that those involved with racing care and love their charges-maybe even some eventers do too  and that these horses get the absolute best of care while in training.

I used to love flat racing until I saw an amatuer race that really made me reconsider the whole sport-the actual event disgusted me tbh.


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## Mule (11 April 2019)

Here's a good article about research in to the causes and prevention of catastrophic breakdowns. There's lots of new research being done. The big thing is bone fatigue and tailoring rest periods to allow for bone regeneration.
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/bone-injury-the-science-of-rest-and-repair/?fbclid=IwAR2xwyM6a9XqvxD8S8jzWqFmyaoa-kmvxVu-tL7eoQi5-rXnbEO25J2QmWQ#.XK2_0BbxP-Q.facebook


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## bonny (12 April 2019)

mule said:



			Here's a good article about research in to the causes and prevention of catastrophic breakdowns. There's lots of new research being done. The big thing is bone fatigue and tailoring rest periods to allow for bone regeneration.
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/bone-injury-the-science-of-rest-and-repair/?fbclid=IwAR2xwyM6a9XqvxD8S8jzWqFmyaoa-kmvxVu-tL7eoQi5-rXnbEO25J2QmWQ#.XK2_0BbxP-Q.facebook

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Thatâ€™s an interesting article, does make you think


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## Honeylight (12 April 2019)

be positive said:



			What has also changed since then is how racing is reported, I think it remains in peoples minds in part because the photo was in all the newspapers the following day as well as being shown in the replays/ new reports, while is was probably done to sell papers, shock people, the owners, trainers, grooms and respect for the horse were given no consideration at all.
We are given better information now without the need to replay any tragic incidents and there is far more consideration given to the feelings of everyone involved.
		
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The image is still seen in books and there are several detailed images on Google including one of him dead after the runners had been by. They would find it difficult to obtain these images now. I am not 100% of what is correct though.....hiding everything behind screens and cutting footage on TV is hiding reality and sanitising the sport, and also death itself. I like many people have never seen a dead person (I am 60) and this is extremely common now, at one time horses were common place and lots of people came across injured or sick horses. When I first watched racing in the 1960s-70s you often saw a dead or injured horse next to a fence, obviously vet medicine has improved and horses are given every chance to recover. Personally I thought the over head shots of horses injured behind screens at Aintree in the early 2000s commentated by Claire Balding, was the beginning of the new hatred of racing amongst this generation.


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## tristar (12 April 2019)

mule said:



			Here's a good article about research in to the causes and prevention of catastrophic breakdowns. There's lots of new research being done. The big thing is bone fatigue and tailoring rest periods to allow for bone regeneration.
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/bone-injury-the-science-of-rest-and-repair/?fbclid=IwAR2xwyM6a9XqvxD8S8jzWqFmyaoa-kmvxVu-tL7eoQi5-rXnbEO25J2QmWQ#.XK2_0BbxP-Q.facebook

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i``m glad he said good horse people know these things, and not that its all something new.

but nowhere does he mention  the implications of racing at a young age, well i did`nt see that anyway, or  the part in injuries that in-co-ordination plays or the overstretching of ligaments and tendons going beyond their physical limits, in the breakdown of bone, multiple things happening at the same time leading to catastrophic injury  particularly in immature horses

and its sort of obvious that workload strengthens up to a point, then starts to deplete bone strength by using up the bodies mineral and nutritional deposits when horses are pushed to the limits.

they are not just allowing bone regeneration, by rest periods, some horses, the young ones are putting done bone for the first time because they are so young,


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## joosie (12 April 2019)

Honeylight said:



			I am not 100% of what is correct though.....hiding everything behind screens and cutting footage on TV is hiding reality and sanitising the sport, and also death itself.
		
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This is what I thought in this year's race when the runners came around on the second lap and they had to bypass the first fence because Up For Review was still there. Not only did the commentators not even briefly address WHY the fence was being bypassed, but you can see the cameras deliberately keeping the fence and screens completely out of view until the field had moved on. And when they did the race review in the studio, they mentioned that a horse had died and then started showing the footage from fence two. I can't decide if this stuff is done because they genuinely want to avoid upsetting people, or do they sanitise it because they don't want to ruin the spectacle and excitement of the race?


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## splashgirl45 (12 April 2019)

i would think it is out of consideration for the owners,groom and trainer.   i hate the fact that so many horses die in racing, but love horses and enjoy watching racing so am a bit torn, but there are hundreds of horses who die in awful conditions all over the country who are nothing to do with racing who suffer for months, sometimes years  and at least the racehorses are dealt with immediately


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## Snowfilly (12 April 2019)

I have a friend who trains pointers and says one of the big benefits of the screens is that the injured horse is less likely to try and move as it's contained. He also feels it offers privacy to trainers, grooms and anyone else who might be there with the horse regardless of outcome, pointing out that most people want privacy for PTS whatever the circumstances. I think they're good enough reasons to continue with the screens.

I've also known and seen horses down behind screens for an awful long while and then get up. Sometimes there's a tendon injury or the horse is winded; I saw a horse stay down for over 20 minutes at a local point to point and most people moved away from the screens because we guessed what was going to happen - only to see him walking out a while later! So sometimes the commentators might not know for sure, or treatment is ongoing, so they don't mention it.


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## joosie (12 April 2019)

Oh I understand the screens. My point is why they felt the need to deliberately keep them off camera.


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## bonny (12 April 2019)

joosie said:



			Oh I understand the screens. My point is why they felt the need to deliberately keep them off camera.
		
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Why not ? If you can film the race without showing the stricken horse then why would you not ?


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## joosie (12 April 2019)

Because you can't see the horse when the screens are up... so there's no need to deliberately hide the screens from the camera. Read my post again, I am asking WHY it is important to hide the fact that something's going on. Are the broadcasters protecting us or the race? I am not actually asking people to answer this by the way - I'm saying this is what I personally am trying to decide.


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## bonny (12 April 2019)

I have never heard anybody say that itâ€™s important to hide the screens from the tv audience and my point was only that if you can use a different camera angle that doesnâ€™t show the incident then why not ? The only thing that they try hard not to show again are reruns of the race that show the actual fall or whatever bad thing has happened


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## joosie (12 April 2019)

They didn't use a different camera angle - they were using the normal angle and following the field but then just as the scene of the incident was about to come into view they shifted the camera quite noticeably to keep it out of shot. It was nowhere near close-up enough for you to see any detail even if it had been on camera - so deliberately keeping the scene out of frame was clearly a choice, as shifting the camera at that point was unnecessary from a technical point of view. 
But anyway... I feel like this is getting a little nit-picky! As I've said already it is just MY thought processes and I am not expecting you to give me an answer or attempt to make me agree with you  

The other day I watched the video of the mass pileup at the 1967 National (go Foinavon!). Given the current anti-National climate can you imagine the reaction if THAT happened now?!


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## bonny (12 April 2019)

joosie said:



			They didn't use a different camera angle - they were using the normal angle and following the field but then just as the scene of the incident was about to come into view they shifted the camera quite noticeably to keep it out of shot. It was nowhere near close-up enough for you to see any detail even if it had been on camera - so deliberately keeping the scene out of frame was clearly a choice, as shifting the camera at that point was unnecessary from a technical point of view.
But anyway... I feel like this is getting a little nit-picky! As I've said already it is just MY thought processes and I am not expecting you to give me an answer or attempt to make me agree with you 

The other day I watched the video of the mass pileup at the 1967 National (go Foinavon!). Given the current anti-National climate can you imagine the reaction if THAT happened now?!
		
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No one was hurt in that pile up, most of the horses look like they are going so slowly that they just grind to a halt ! Still an amazing race though and it wouldnâ€™t happen now.


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## joosie (12 April 2019)

I know, some of them looked like they were going "oh, are we stopping here?...  oh alright then"


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## oakey14 (14 April 2019)

I struggle with the national tbh, love it and hate it but you get a horse like Rummy who jumps round ten times which can't just be luck he loved it and bear in mind there were 33 tougher fences then... He also won the Scottish national a week later in 1974 that would never be allowed to happen now . Horses die racing all the time but the people who watch the national once a year don't see that and have no idea , if they watched the Pardubice and knew that the national used to have stone walls they'd faint lol bless them


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## Mule (14 April 2019)

The beast loves to gallop. He's only half TB but he has a real turn of speed. I do lots of flatwork but he comes alive when he does x country or when I take him galloping.

I had a dressage instructor who used to say he had no work ethic ðŸ˜‚ but it was really because he wants to run and jump. I think it's his TB side, it's just in their nature.


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## GTRJazz (15 April 2019)

Nothing wrong with the National its the breeding thats wrong not enough bone, they should put some ID blood in them will slow it down a bit and take more of a knock


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## Mule (16 April 2019)

GTRJazz said:



			Nothing wrong with the National its the breeding thats wrong not enough bone, they should put some ID blood in them will slow it down a bit and take more of a knock
		
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That sounds like my dream horse


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## Sandstone1 (16 April 2019)

littlefluffball said:



			Another non fan here.  It just doesn't sit comfortably with me at all.  Would never argue with anyone about it though - each to their own. I do sometimes have to bite my tongue when the "it's folk that know nothing about it....." comments come out because, well, I do.  Don't get me wrong I am no expert in the racing industry but I am not a clueless fluffy bunny either with a delusional idea of a disney planet. I know enough about all the ex racehorses I have worked with over the years....

On a bit of a tangent but a work colleague was arranging the sweepstake and it made me think how nice it would be if every bet that was placed was matched and donated to racehorse rehabilitation charities (or any horse charity really)  So I made it my personal mission to match his sweepstake takings to donate to the racehorse rehab charity!  Spent that night doing a tonne of baking and had a mini bake sale at work!  We only fell short of matching the sweepstake by Â£5 - but then one of the colleagues who won a fiver donated it to the chairty so it worked out well!  My friend/colleague who done the sweepstake pointed everyone in the direction of the cakes once they had picked their horse so most people who bet also donated.  Worked quite well I thought.
		
Click to expand...

Yes.   The old saying about it being people who dont understand it being against it.   Same as hunting.   You get it s " townies dont uunderstand.    Well some people do understand and are still against it!
Do we have the right to use horses in sports where there is a big risk to life?   Im really not sure to be honest.


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## Clodagh (16 April 2019)

Charlie Brooks wrote a fantastic article in the Telepgraph about totally changing the National, and making it like the London Marathon. I will see if I can find it. (May be buried in my old papers to go to the vets box).


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## Clodagh (16 April 2019)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/racing/...ilence-critics-altering-entry-rules-becoming/

You do have to register to read it all. I don't agree with the 'no one cares about the humans' they choose to do it, being aware of all the risks. The paper version is covered in puppy pee!


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