# Cremello Stallions



## madmare22 (24 February 2009)

Please can you folk give me some names of cremello stallions
and details of where they are standing.

Thanks


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## volatis (24 February 2009)

Milky Way at Groomsbridge near Newmarket
McJonnas at Solaris in Scotland
Perlino Kinsky at Ranby hall, Notts


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## TrueColours (25 February 2009)

Guaranteed Gold at Goldfields Stud in Aberdeen in 2010 ...

www.Goldfieldsstud.com

Here are a few pictures for you of GG who is a 16.1hh cremello TB stallion







and:







and:







and:







He is a truly lovely and talented stallion that is producing some amazing offspring!

Good luck in your search ...


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## magic104 (25 February 2009)

What sort, height of Cremello Stallion are you looking at?
http://www.thecremellosite.co.uk/CREMELLOSTALLIONS.HTML


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## madmare22 (25 February 2009)

Its not for me but for a friend. but it is over 16hh he would be interested in


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## DW Team (25 February 2009)

Crowns Wonder Pearl
stands at brackenspastud in Lincolnshire


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## valour11 (25 February 2009)

My cremello warmblood stallion is heading for grading at the end of March, I will have more pictures available after the 8th of March when he is having his first pro photoshoot.  Available now at Goldfields Stud http://www.goldfieldsstud.com/


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## GranDel (25 February 2009)

I saw Crown's Wonder Pearl at the Brackenspa stud open day last year and was quite impressed.

I beleive (from the Brackenspa website) that he has been graded with the ECHA into their Stud book 1.

I think they are having another open day in late March - well worth the visit.


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## Lillo (25 February 2009)

http://www.electrum-cremello-tb-uk.com/

A thoroughbred cremello if thats your thing! Stands in South East London/Kent.


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## Ciss (25 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Milky Way at Groomsbridge near Newmarket
McJonnas at Solaris in Scotland
Perlino Kinsky at Ranby hall, Notts 

[/ QUOTE ]

Perlino will also be standing in Cornwall for the latter part of the season. He is available by chilled and fressh semen and possibly frozen also later on.

Go to http://www.trevoulterbartonstud.co.uk/perlinokinsky.htm for more info and photos, including some of him under saddle.


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## MissIndependance (25 February 2009)

http://www.colourthyme-stud.com/czandorcremello.htm  - he's 16.3 - owned by the lady who used to have Vangelis


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## shirleyno2 (25 February 2009)

I'll second Milky Way at Groomsbridge, super stallion and really professional people.


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## Clodagh (25 February 2009)

I saw him yesterday, a lovely type of horse and a lovely temperament, not really my cup of tea colourwise though!!


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## ColourFan (26 February 2009)

There are a number of cremello stallions available, the question, beside size, is:
What type are you looking for? 
What bloodlines are you looking for? 
Are you looking only to UK standing stallions or also considering European or American standing stallions?
Are you considering only those stallions approved with:
- Colour Registers?
- Sport Registers?
- European recognized WB Registers?
- Only UK recognized Registers?
What are you prepared to pay?
Do you want fresh, frozen or natural covering?
WHAT COLOUR IS YOUR MARE? ... as many cremello stallions will not cover dilute mares

I have a list of 56 !  cremello stallions world-wide in sizes from pony (143cm) to horse (172 cm),  in warmblood-type breeds, approved and not approved.

Need some more information to thin the list out to meet your requirements.


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## madmare22 (26 February 2009)

The aim is to breed palomino and buckskin horses, the mares are chestnut and bay and i think he has a palamoino mare as well.

I think he would prefer UK standing stallions, over 16hh bu may consider 15.2 upwards. Ideallly something with a bit of bone as a couple of the mares are Tb. I think stud fee wise he is looking at the 5-600 GBP mark, either fresh/chilled or natural cover, not frozen if he can help it.

As for bloodlines i havent a clue.


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## Fahrenheit (26 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I have a list of 56 !  cremello stallions world-wide in sizes from pony (143cm) to horse (172 cm),  in warmblood-type breeds, approved and not approved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Give us all 56 because i've been looking at cremello's since the last thread and I haven't found that many


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## ColourFan (26 February 2009)

I will adjust my excel file this afternoon to accommodate the forum.
Only problem is I definitely do not want to be accused of advertising!!   I have spent alot of time search the internet, addressing the stallion listings in the studbooks and checking the information,  so much of it is up to date as per January 2009.
The listing is a personal research and as I breed warmbloods and sport horses and ponies I have excluded quarter horses, ASH, Morgans, etc.  Have kept their links on another document.
(I have also started on a Palomino/Buckskin and Pinto Stud List)


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## magic104 (26 February 2009)

What determines the richness of the colour for a Palomino?  ie why are some very wishy washy &amp; some have that real golden sovereign colour with a white mane &amp; tail.  Just wondered if there was a way of getting the darker shades.


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## Fahrenheit (26 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I will adjust my excel file this afternoon to accommodate the forum.
Only problem is I definitely do not want to be accused of advertising!!   I have spent alot of time search the internet, addressing the stallion listings in the studbooks and checking the information,  so much of it is up to date as per January 2009.
The listing is a personal research and as I breed warmbloods and sport horses and ponies I have excluded quarter horses, ASH, Morgans, etc.  Have kept their links on another document.
(I have also started on a Palomino/Buckskin and Pinto Stud List) 

[/ QUOTE ]

It can't be advertising if they aren't your stallions 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 besides I asked you to help me because I haven't even got into double figures on my search for a warmblood cremello stallion  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 you would be doing me a HUGE favour  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[ QUOTE ]
What determines the richness of the colour for a Palomino?  ie why are some very wishy washy &amp; some have that real golden sovereign colour with a white mane &amp; tail.  Just wondered if there was a way of getting the darker shades. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I was once told that cherry (very red) chestnut produces the most desirable shade of palomino but I don;t know if their is any truth in that or even if the person that told me had any idea what they were talking about


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## nomis (26 February 2009)

One question - What does a Cremello bring to sport horse breeding other than its colour?  

When I see people speaking of Cremello's (like above), all that seems to be important is the colour of the resulting foal, so I then presume that the only benefit to using such a stallion is because of its colour, and not about the quality or depth of its breeding.


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## Clodagh (26 February 2009)

Like most coloured horses, surely? So many skewbalds, for example, are bred to be patchy, not necessarily good at anything else?
(I'm not disagreeing with you, I think you are right btw!!)


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## GranDel (26 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
One question - What does a Cremello bring to sport horse breeding other than its colour?  

When I see people speaking of Cremello's (like above), all that seems to be important is the colour of the resulting foal, so I then presume that the only benefit to using such a stallion is because of its colour, and not about the quality or depth of its breeding. 

[/ QUOTE ]

In relation to the above quote in some cases this is true - some people do breed for colour but, on the otherhand many of the stallions listed above do have proven competition lineage in their pedigrees. 

Surely the process of grading and performance testing these stallions should set the same standard as for solid/traditional coloured horses.


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## TrueColours (26 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
 One question - What does a Cremello bring to sport horse breeding other than its colour? 


[/ QUOTE ] 

VERY legit question!!!  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 We have many cremello TB stallions here in North America that are 6-7-8-9 years of age that have never been backed, never been ridden, never been shown in anything, never been graded, never been appraised / evaluated by independent inspector's, never been measured by independent inspector's so you really have no clue how tall they REALLY are

Guaranteed Gold has been ridden and shown, he has been inspected and approved, he had a successful show career and now his sons and daughters are entering the show ring and the breeding shed as well so anyone interested in breeding to him or one of his sons down the road, can get a pretty accurate assessment of what they are getting for their money 

I honestly think if all a stallion has going for him is "colour" and nothing else to assess and judge him by then Mare Owners would be foolish to pay their money to breed to him unless all they want is a palomino or buckskin foal and dont care about the quality, conformation, movement and performance aspects that should go along with that foal ...


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## Fahrenheit (26 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
One question - What does a Cremello bring to sport horse breeding other than its colour?  

When I see people speaking of Cremello's (like above), all that seems to be important is the colour of the resulting foal, so I then presume that the only benefit to using such a stallion is because of its colour, and not about the quality or depth of its breeding. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well for me I had never considered a cremello stallion before but my interest (and nosiness) were peaked by a thread on Palominos and Buckskin Stallions and then I added the following thread

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4054663/an/0/page/2#4054663

but only came up with 3 or 4 stallions, I am actually interested in seeing if I can find a cremello stallion that fulfils the same critera that I use to pick other stallions, if I could find a cremello stallion that ticked the boxes on conformation, pedigree, ability and grading then I would consider using it because the colour would be a bonus... out of the stallions i've looked at so far I would only use one (I am not saying which one, as I don't want to offend anyone  
	
	
		
		
	


	




) but he wouldn't be a match for the mare I am thinking about, hence I am still looking... if I don't find one that ticks the boxes I won't be using a cremello


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## ColourFan (26 February 2009)

OK here goes the list!!
Please excuse any errors ... most of the work is done after 10 pm!
Please pass on any corrections!!!!! Much appreciated!!!

Only those stallions of 3 years old in 2009 and older have been taken into consideration.
Have also been classed per breeding and approval:

*Note:* 
* = no coverage on dilute mares or private treaty only
# = DNA tested AA
## = DNA tested Aa
EU = European recognized Warmblood Studbook
EUC = European recognized Mixed Breed, Colour or Sporthorse Register

*Name  DOB  Size  Birth Registry  Appr.with  Status  Book  Contact* 

* <u>Warmblood Bred and EU Approved</u> :* 
Weissgold  2004  16.1H  ZfDP  ECHA/ZfDP  Appr.  WB Bk.1  Gestuet Falkenhorst D*
Milky Way  2001  16.1H  ZfDP  ECHA/ZfDP  Appr.  WB Bk.1  Gestuet Falkenhorst D*
Mascarpones Erbe  2001  162cm  ZfDP  ZfDP/ECHA  Appr.  WB Bk.1  Gestuet Falkenhorst D *
Blue Eyed Dream  2002  16H  ZfDP  RPSI/AWR  Appr.  WB Bk.1  Equivale USA
Mirabeau  2000  16.1H  ZfDP  RPSI/Perf.HorseReg  Appr.  WB Bk.2  Blazing Colours Farm USA #
Mystic Blue Eyes  1999  16.1H  ZfDP  RPSI  Appr.  WB Bk.2  Hiatt Farms USA
Banquo  1994  16.2H  Swed.WB  RPSI/SHOC  Appr.  WB Bk.2 - ?USA
Limet Harry  2002  16H  CzechWB  RPSI  Appr.  WB Bk.1  Wolf Run Farm USA

* <u>Warmblood Bred and EUC Approved</u> * :
Magic Memphis  2001  166cm  ZfDP  Pferdst.Schl.Holst./DSHA /(ZfDP)  Appr. - Colour Bk.1(WB-1)  Stutterilysgaard DK
Neon  2002  160cm  CzechWB  PZVS/SCS  Appr. - sect.A WB Bk.2  neon-cremello.de D ##
Vangelis  2003  168cm  CzechWB  ECHA  Appr. - WB Bk 1   ?? Ireland * #
McJonnas  2003  165cm  CzechWB  SSH  listed - ?? - umenno.com UK ##
Alba (perlino:Ee)  2005  167cm  HungWB  BritPaloAss  Appr. - ??  Halona Sport Horses  UK#
Baron (perlino:Ee)  1992  169cm  Eq.Kinsky  R.Belg.Palo  Appr.  WB Bk.1  Kinsky Stable NL
Perlino Kinsky (perlino) -  2002  16.2H  Eq.Kinsky  Dan.SportHorseAss  Appr.  Bk.1  Sporting-Horse UK
Czandor  2002  16.3H  Wielkopolska  BPA  Appr.  Colour - colourthyme-stud  UK* #
Matros  2005  16H  Wielkopolska - ?? - ?? - ??  colourthyme-stud UK *#
Kazbek (perlino)  2003  163cm - Akhal-teke - PZVS/SCS  Appr - ??  arabians.de D
Kinor (perlino)  2001  15.1H  Akhal-teke - ?? - ?? - ?? -  webshot community katoneal100

<u> *Thoroughbreds and EU Approved:* </u> 
The Alchemist  2003  17.1H  J.C.  ZSAA  Appr.  WB Bk.1  Gestuet Falkenhorst D *

* <u>Thoroughbreds and EUC Approved</u> * :
Guaranteed Gold  1998  16H  J.C.  Canad.SportHorse  Appr.  3rd Prem./not WB appr.  True Colours Farm

* <u>Thoroughbreds and Not Approved</u> * :
Billionair  1998 - ??  J.C.  xx - ?? - ??  Canyon Creek Equine USA
RFF El Dorado  2000  16.3H  J.C.  xx - ?? - ??  Blazing Colours Farm USA #
Snowy River  2004  16.2H  J.C.  xx - ?? - ??  Mission Ridge Farm USA (only TB mares)
White Magic  2003  16.2H  J.C.  xx - ?? - ?? -  Hollywood Ranch USA
Zillionair  1999 - ??  J.C.  xx - ?? - ??  Norsire Farm USA #

* <u>Partbred Arabs and EU Approved</u> *  :
Heclair d'Arbre Mort (perlino)  1995  154cm  Berber Arab - Rhein/Westf/ZfDP  Appr.  WB Bk.1  heclair.de D
Alant  2003  ?? -  BAPS  BAPS - ?? - ?? -  ?? Belgium
Roundhills Dancing Cloud  1993  15.1H  PBAR  AHS  Appr.  pbar  32.25%ar  Pioneer Stud UK
Legend Phantom Moonlight  1999  15.1H  PBAR  AHS  Appr.  pbar  37.5%ar - Blaencanaid Stud UK
Pioneerstud Silver Sheikh  2006  15H  PBAR  AHS  Appr.  pbar  75.5%ar  Pioneer Stud UK*

* <u>Partbred Arabs and EUC Approved</u> * :
Lancelot de l'Arbre Mort  1999  151cm  Berber Arab  ACHR/Berb.Ar.Fr  Appr.  Bk.1  Almansour D
Klepholms Ikarios  2005  158cm  PBAR  BAPS/ZfDP  Appr.  2e Prem/Colour Bk.1  65%ar  Harlekin Arabians B*


* <u>Partbred Arabs and Not Approved</u> * :
Roundhill's Crystal King  2005  16H  PBAR - ?? - ?? - ??  62%ar  Performance Arabians UK
Aratahne Azahl  2002 - ?? - ?? - ??  75%arab - West Kingston Stud  UK #?
Colebridge Silver Phantom - ?? - ?? - ?? - ?? - ?? - ?? - ?? UK
Goldenfields Silver Star - ?? - ?? - ?? - ?? - ?? - ??  Legend Stud UK
Legend Alphine Mist  1993  15H  PBAR - ?? - ?? - ??  54%ar  Sameon Stud UK
Soloman  2004  15.1H  PBAR - ?? - ?? - ??  via Forum Arabianbreeders.net USA

* <u>Colour Association Bred and EUC Approved</u> * :
Crowns Blue Pearl  2001  170cm  Dan.Pal.Ass.  DPA/ECHA/ZfDP  Appr. - Colour Bk.1  Crown Horse Stud DK
Crowns Wonder Pearl  2005 - ??  DPA  ECHA  Appr.  Colour Bk.1  Brackenspa Stud UK
Crowns Classic Pearl  2003  16.3H  DPA  DPA  Appr.  Colour Bk. 1  Naturally Equine UK
Slotshus Tosca  2002  15.2H  DPA  ??  ??.  ?? - Brackenspa Stud UK
Rebeh Al Mansour  2005  153cm  ACHR  ACHR  Appr. - ?  25%ar - ?? Fr
Fayrio Cream Dream - ?? - ??  ACHR  IAAA/ACHR  Appr. - ?? - ??  Fr
Cravens Enchanter - ?? - ??  ACHR  IAAA/ACHR  Appr. - ?? - ??  Fr ?
Ouzo des Dieux  2002  160cm  ACHR  IAAA/ACHR  Appr. - ?? - http://samvdm.free.fr/ Fr
Ismir du Tilleul  2005  157cm  R.B.P.  R.B.P.  Appr.  Bk. 1  royalbelgianpalomino.be B
Whitey  1996  162cm  R.B.P.  R.B.P.  Appr.  Bk.1  royalbelgianpalomino.be B
Chicco  1999  150cm  R.B.P.  R.B.P.  Appr.  Bk. 1  royalbelgianpalomino.be B

* <u>Barok Association Bred and EUC Approved</u> * :
Iberian Blue  1995  158cm  Iberian  IAAA  Appr.  Bk. 1 - barockgestuet-heinz D 
Vulcoa  2002  160cm  PSL Lusitano  PSL  Appr.  Bk. 1  showpferd.de D
Robador (perlino)  2005  163cm  PSL Lusitano  IAAA/ACHR  Appr. - samvdm.free.fr Fr
Atlas  2003  153cm  Iberian  ACHR  Appr. - ? - freizeit-barockpferde D

*Quarter Horses* :
Magic For Ever  2005 - ??  AQHA - ?? - ?? - ?? - elevage-boudet Fr
Vandals Gold  AQHA - Netherlands
Raleighs Full Moon  1998  16H  AQHA  AWR/+++ - Appr.  1e Prem  Moon Rock Arabians USA*
.  More in France, Zwitserland, etc

* <u>Sport Ponies and EU/EUC Approved</u> * :
Falsario de Color (?perlino)  2001  139cm  ZfDP? -  BadenWürt./, ZfDP  Appr.  Bk.1 - gestuet-centauro D
Centauro's Golden Flashlight  2003  145cm  ZfDP - BadenWürt./, ZfDP  Appr.  Bk.1 - gestuet-centauro D
Moonhaze Silver Spiral  1998  14.3H  PBAR - ?? - ?? - ??  68.75%ar  Rainbow Arabians DK
Jacomo du Noly  2005  146cm  Connemara  R.B.P.  Appr.  Bk. 1  royalbelgianpalomino.be  Fr
Blue Eyed Super Star  2006  144cm  Connemara  R.B.P. - ?? -  ??  approval 2009?  R.B.P. NL

I  _was_  going to do the ironing this afternoon .......


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## ColourFan (26 February 2009)

By the way ... of the stallions listed above ONLY A HANDVOL have completed the stringent 70-day stallion test or the lesser 30-day stallion test!!!!!

If you want to find out more about a particular stallion in the list ... google on name and thereafter on contact ... in 99% of the cases you will ge the right link.


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## Fahrenheit (26 February 2009)

Sorry about your ironing 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Do you know which have completed to 30/70 day tests??  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I am just beating my printer up as it has decided to tell me that I have an ink cartridge malfunction!!


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## ColourFan (26 February 2009)

Have to get back to you on the ?-day tests .. have to look it up!
Must on to bring the girls in before it gets too dark ...  one of which is a cremello in foal to Don Laurie II!!


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## Fahrenheit (26 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
one of which is a cremello in foal to Don Laurie II!!    
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]


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## mimi6 (26 February 2009)

Re Colourfan's super list.  

What a huge amount of work and effort, very sorry about the ironing but a far more worth while job I am sure.  I found your list very interesting but you did mention that any corrections would be welcome.  

I know that Slotshus Tosca is now standing here in France rather than at the stud you mentioned in the UK and I am sure he was in 2008.

Congratulations on the impressive research.


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## Bright_Spark (26 February 2009)

Thank you Colourfan for the time and effort you have put into your list


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## Fahrenheit (26 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you Colourfan for the time and effort you have put into your list 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Thankies CF  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 You are a STAR!!!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





We should all...







*whispers* BTW I found out that Magic Memphis has been 70 day tested (thats if my german translation was right 
	
	
		
		
	


	




)


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## GranDel (26 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Crowns Wonder Pearl  2005 - ??  DPA  ECHA  Appr.  Colour Bk.1  Brackenspa Stud UK


[/ QUOTE ]

To aid in your '??' I was lucky enough to be present at the ECHA grading last Autumn where Brackenspa Stud presented Crown's Wonder Pearl.

At the end of his grading it was announced, among other things, that he was  *15.3hh*  and graded into Hengstbuch 1.

After chatting with his groom it was made clear that he will be presented for his performance test as a 4yr old in 2009.

I am looking forward to seeing how he has developed at the stud open day at the end of March.


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## magic104 (26 February 2009)

I looked at this one http://www.crownhorse.com/
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=Crown%92s+Blue+Pearl
I dont know if it is the new monitor but what has put me off is most look to be quiet long in the back.  Next to black I like a Palomino, I would not pick one that did not compliment the mare.  And to be honest the level we ride at performance is not the be all &amp; end all from a stallion.  His conformation has to suit the mare &amp; temperment is a must, also he has to be approved by his breed society at least.


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## ColourFan (26 February 2009)

Corrections received:
Warmblood Bred and EU Approved:
Weissgold is 16.2H

Colour Association Bred and EUC Approved:
Crowns Blue Pearl  2001  170cm  Dan.Pal.Ass.  DPA/ECHA/ZfDP  Appr. - ECHA Bk.1/ZfDP Bk.2  Crown Horse Stud DK
Crowns Wonder Pearl  2005  15.3H  DPA  ECHA  Appr.  Bk.1  Brackenspa Stud UK
Slotshus Tosca located at Estier Stud France

70-day tests:
WB+EU approved: Mascarpones Erbe
WB+EUC approved: Magic Memphis

Going in 2009:
WB+EU: The Alchemist
WB+EU: Weissgold
WB+EUC: Crowns Wonder Pearl

30-day test:
WB+EU approved:Limet Hurry


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## ColourFan (26 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
*whispers* BTW I found out that Magic Memphis has been 70 day tested (thats if my german translation was right 
	
	
		
		
	


	




) 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Yes Magic Memphis did his 70-day test and got quite good results.  Unfortunately even with the result his foals cannot be registered in Book 1 in most of the WB Studbooks.
He is approved with the Danish Sport Horse Ass and with the Pferdstammbuch Schleswig Holstein (NOT to be confused with the Holstein Verband!!) ... the first is a Sport Register and the second is a mixed breed Register,  however under the flag of Pferdst.SH he did his 70-day test, succeeded AND because ZfDP have an affliation with Pferdst.SH, the ZfDP accepts him in the WB Bk 1.  Again however no colt of his could ever get Stallion Bk 1 full approval as neither sire nor grandsires, both sides, were ever WB approved.  Such a pity!!


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## Ciss (26 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Corrections received: 

[/ QUOTE ]

Perlino Kinsky is standing at Ranby Hall Stud and Trevoulter Barton Stud not at Sporting Horse UK (what's that?)


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## ColourFan (26 February 2009)

If you goggle for information about him the most informative site is: http://www.sporting-horse.co.uk/PerlinoKinsky.htm
There is no mention of him on Ranby Hall Stud site, but I see that he has been recently added to the Trevoulter Barton Stud site.

Will correct accordingly, thank you!


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## madmare22 (26 February 2009)

Thanks colourfan you have been most helpful


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## TrueColours (27 February 2009)

ColourFan - what a fabulous list! I'm sure we'd all volunteer to run an iron over a few clothes for you as partial thanks ... 
	
	
		
		
	


	





One SMALL correction on Guaranteed Gold. He is 16.1hh and he has undergone performance testing as well within the context of the CSHA, where certain results had to be achieved in the discipline of choice (in his case - eventing) in order for him to achieve his Bronze Premium status. He can now move up through the ranks based on his own performance and also through the performance of his offspring, which I believe follows the same model as the European registries

VERY impressive list once again! Thanks for taking the time to put that together for all of us ...


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## Ciss (27 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
If you goggle for information about him the most informative site is: http://www.sporting-horse.co.uk/PerlinoKinsky.htm

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually the two most informative sites about him are a translation of his original Swedish and Danish site http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?...l%3Den%26sa%3DG and the new Trevoulter Barton Stud site http://www.trevoulterbartonstud.co.uk/perlinokinsky.htm both of which also include his excellent Danish grading marks of Head, neck, overline and body: 9899 Limbs: Front: 8 Hind 8  Paces: Walk 8 Trot 8 Canter 7 Overall impression: 8 and a brief history of the Kinsky (Czech Warmblood breed) and its contribution to sport horse breeding.

[ QUOTE ]
 There is no mention of him on Ranby Hall Stud site, but I see that he has been recently added to the Trevoulter Barton Stud site.

[/ QUOTE ] I don't think Paul has updated the Ranby Hall one for quite a while (they certainly don't stand an Irish Draught anymore) and just used the www.sporting-horse.co.uk one instead as it was likely to pick up more googlers.

I also gather that Perlino Kinsky will be appearing at the Arena UK PSHP Stallion Parade on 14 March if you want to see him in the flesh

[ QUOTE ]
 Will correct accordingly, thank you! 

[/ QUOTE ]
Very intersting list


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## magic104 (27 February 2009)

I might have missed him my eyesight is not as it was!

http://www.palominowarmbloods.com/blueeyeddream.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZTZPrxyznI
would you pay $1400 though?


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## flyingcolors (27 February 2009)

Blue Eyed Dream GF's fee is quite a low stud fee for the USA and he has a huge competition record in combined driving AND dressage: http://www.palominowarmbloods.com/blueeyeddream.html

Same applies for Mirabeau GF who is in Canada and is 1600 CAD which is much more. He also has a great competition record in showjumping: http://www.blazingcoloursfarm.com/Mirabeau1.htm


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## magic104 (27 February 2009)

I noticed that they have a lot of driving photo's of him, are his offspring too young to be showing any talents?  I suppose that when you think you are paying in excess of £970 compare that to some of the other stallions available with great competition records &amp; offspring proving themselves as well.  It could work out an expensive Palomino or Buckskin &amp; no matter how popular these colours may becoming in sporthorses it is still quiet gamble.  Interesting though as he is one I like.  

I would like to know what others think as far as using any of these listed as breeding potential sportshorses.


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## flyingcolors (27 February 2009)

You should look up the offspring page. The oldest have been just three last year and are already under saddle and competing! There are plenty of links and informations.

1400 USD ist about 1100 Euro which is an average stud fee in Germany for a good stallion that is competing and has good offspring.


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## Alba (27 February 2009)

I have a Perlino WB who can produce Palomino's and Buckskins but not smokey blacks.

www.halonastud.co.uk

Everyone who has been seen his youngstock have been absolutely delighted with them, and not because of the colour, he is stamping his stock very well.


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## ColourFan (27 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
ColourFan - what a fabulous list! I'm sure we'd all volunteer to run an iron over a few clothes for you as partial thanks ... 
	
	
		
		
	


	





One SMALL correction on Guaranteed Gold. He is 16.1hh and he has undergone performance testing as well within the context of the CSHA, where certain results had to be achieved in the discipline of choice (in his case - eventing) in order for him to achieve his Bronze Premium status. He can now move up through the ranks based on his own performance and also through the performance of his offspring, which I believe follows the same model as the European registries

VERY impressive list once again! Thanks for taking the time to put that together for all of us ...  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you!

With respect to the performance test of the CSHA, this is a Sport Register and not a Warmblood Register or Studbook, so unfortunately any results obtained will have no standing in an EU recognized Warmblood Studbook.   Of course his foals are eligible for registration in the WB Studbooks but they will always be B-Register or Book 2 and never Main-Book.   If you want his foals eligible for Main-Book registration with EU recognized WB Studbooks you will have to get him approved in one of them AND, in the case of the German Studbooks, followup with the 70-day stallion test.

That said,  you can (am nearly 100% certain) however transfer his performance test to the ECHA and get him approved with them, again this is not a WB Register.

Although not completely familiar with their rules and regulations, the S.S.H. is also a Sport Register, European based and located in UK, and I am sure they will accept his transfer from a 'sister' Sport Register if the CSHA has a similar model of testing.  Again however not a Warmbloed Register,  these have totally different criteria.


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## jrp204 (27 February 2009)

http://www.trevoulterbartonstud.co.uk/stallions.htm. Karensa has got a new one standing although i don't know anything about it. Lovely blue roan on the home page too.


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## TrueColours (27 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
That said, you can (am nearly 100% certain) however transfer his performance test to the ECHA and get him approved with them, again this is not a WB Register.  

[/ QUOTE ]

Help me out here (I AM from Canada after all! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




)

What is ECHA please?

Also - tell me your thoughts on this. Guaranteed Gold is not Trakehner approved but he was bred to some Trakehner mares and has produced 2 colts and 1 filly. The Trakehner breeder is VERY "up" on the rules and regs within her registry and this is what she sent to me with regards to the future breeding / acceptance of her foals within the Trakehner Registry

 [ QUOTE ]
OK, I talked to the ATA guy and also reviewed our regulations.

We had a pilot program for several years under which purebred TB and Arab stallions could be inspected and approved for breeding to purebred mares. That program never extended eligibility to TB-Trakehner or Arab-Trakehner crosses; only purebred stallions, such as GG, were eligible.

A few years ago we voted to discontinue the pilot program, essentially making the program "permanent."  Here is a copy of the explanation for that program under which TB and Arab stallions can be inspected and approved. It may be somewhat outdated; for example, now the minimum score for a stallion is 60 instead of 58 (out of a possible 10 in each of 8 scoring categories). But it is the general tune. 

http://www.americantrakehner.com/faqs/FAQsPilotProgramStallions.htm

Historically, we have had very few applicants for this. The criteria are pretty tough (particularly performance record) and the market for ATA mares is pretty tight, so I think that discourages most owners of TB and Arab stallions.  But the get of approved stallions (TB stallions Musing, Cloned Steel, Ambassador in Love, maybe another...and Arab stallions Aul Magic, Al Marah Quebec, Taez, and maybe another) out of unrestricted ATA Studbook (OSB) mares are eligible for registration in the Official Registry Book, and then for entry into the Official Stud Book upon inspection.

But now and as ever, 

A colt

- by a Jockey Club stallion that has not been presented and approved by the ATA, and 

- out of an ATA mare (regardless of the book of her registry--registration book or stud book)

is not eligible under the pilot program or our regulations and is not eligible for the Official Stud Book.

Such a colt would be registrable only under the ATA Appendix Book Section (B) (if the dam is an ATA Stud Book mare--OSB) or Section (D) (if the dam is an ATA registry book mare--ORB). In neither case is a colt eligible for transfer to the Official Stud Book.

This is precisely the situation that Tango is in--his sire is unapproved, though his dam is OSB, so he is not eligible for approval on his own right (under the pilot program) and is not eligible to move up from his current registration status, in the Official Appendix Book (B)

The outcome is different for fillies. A filly by a Jockey Club stallion out of an ATA OSB mare is registrable in the Official Appendix Book (B), and from there, fillies (but not colts) can move into the Preliminary Stud Book upon inspection. So that will be Dory's path.

Hope that helps. Clear as mud, eh?



[/ QUOTE ]   

So - based on this, the Anglo Trakehner filly by my unapproved TB stallion, can be inspected as a 3 year old, move into the Preliminary Stud Book, then get bred to a Trakehner stallion and THAT foal will then get full Trakehner papers so there is a viable way to get TB blood into the European registries through the fillies

Is that just an ATA situation or would this not apply in Europe with the Trakehner registry there as well?

Also - lastly - I keep seeing the word "numpty" in some posts. What the HECK is a numpty???  
	
	
		
		
	


	













And what is S.S.H. as well please?

Thanks a bunch!


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## ColourFan (27 February 2009)

Not wanting to clog up this thread by discussing eligibility to the different European Studbooks, I'll just give a short answer:

For ANY issue (out of a TV Main Book mare) of a thoroughbred stallion to be accepted into the Main Book of the EU Trakehner Verband the stallion must be TV approved. After this initial approval he MUST complete the 70-day test otherwise the temporary approval is revoked.

I am very surprised that a Trak.breeder would use a non-approved TB stallion (unless of course it is to get colour ... palomino DOES NOT exist in the pure Trak.breed!!), nevertheless this specific anglo-trak filly can after inspection go into the Preliminary Stud Book, and although her foal by an approved Trak stallion will get full papers, it will not be Main Book.  The TV rule clearly states that a minimum of full 6 generations 'approved' Trakehner must be present to be eligible for Main-Book.  The anglo-trak filly's foal's great-grandchild would be eligible.

There are any number of ways to get TB blood into the European WB Registries but if you want full papers in the Main Book of this WB Registries the TB sire MUST be fully approved by an EU Warmblood Studbook.

The ECHA is the European Coloured Horse Association, a mix breed association with a very good reputation, they accept cremello's.  This is their site: www.echa-esv.de

The S.S.H. is the Scottish Sport Horse.  This is their site: http://www.scottishsportshorse.org

Can't help you with numpty!!


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## Ciss (27 February 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
The S.S.H. is the Scottish Sport Horse.  This is their site: http://www.scottishsportshorse.org

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have thought it was pretty unlikely that SSH would accept ECHA approval / grading as an atomatic overstamp / acceptable performance level for automatic stallion approval as the ECHA is not a WBFSH member studbook. But perhaps some of our Scots members might know more.

In the meantime it is possible that the no-cremello restriction might be lifted by WBS (there is a rules meeting to discuss this amongst other things in a couple of weeks time) but I understand that the SHBGB told Paul that they would not even consider looking at grading a cremello however good it was so definite colour predjudice still firmly in place there &lt;sigh&gt;


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## magic104 (27 February 2009)

1.  Numpty  732 up, 76 down 
 Scottish usage: 
a) Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular subject or situation to the amusement of others. 

b) A good humoured admonition, a term of endearment 

c) A reckless, absent minded or unwise person 
a) "No. That wisnae wit she meant, ya big numpty!" 

b) i.e. "Silly billy", "You big dafty" 

c) "That numpty's driving with no lights on!" 
by cargo_4 May 20, 2004 share this  
2.  numpty  450 up, 107 down 
 A person who never has or never will have a f*ing clue what he is doing 
Bobby Gould 
by Nested One Oct 14, 2003 share this  
3.  numpty  257 up, 59 down 
 An idiot, a silly person 
"You're going to look like a right numpty." 

I would be a lot happier seeing one of these (Cremello/Perlinos) approved by say the TBF.  I can see a huge benefit for the stallion owner, &amp; perhaps the stud fee will double then.  Sorry guys, just I dont see many of these stallions justifying their fees, I really dont.


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## Fahrenheit (27 February 2009)

Lol magic... I called someone a numpty today... in a very affectionate way of course... only for them to tell me that numpty is actually the Norwegian for numbskull... so I ended up feeling the numpty... whether they were telling the truth or not, I don't know but I thought you could add it to your numpty list!!

After looking at alot of the stallions, I do agree that imo some of them do not justify their fees but I have found 2 that I would use now...


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## magic104 (27 February 2009)

Oh well the search goes on, but I have another year so no rush.  I would love to see one of the TB's graded though, that would add some value. I may have to see them in the flesh not sure photo' are doing them any justice.


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## flyingcolors (28 February 2009)

The Alchemist xx is graded. He bred a lot of Warmblood and Trakehner mares in Germany. His foals were consistently premium awarded and have fabulous movement, excellent conformation and the most kind character. The breeders and also new owners of the foals are all very satisfied and happy.


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## magic104 (28 February 2009)

In March 2006 RFF The Alchemist has been presented to the breed commission of the ZSAA, which is a German National Breed Association for Arabian, Anglo-Arabian, Thoroughbred and Partbred Sporthorses. The approval of this Organization is accepted by the other German National and Regional Breed Associations. RFF The Alchemist presentend himself so very well, he could achieve several scores above the needed score of 7. He scored an 8 in body conformation, correctness, overall impression, gallop and jumping. He now cannot only breed for full papered Thoroughbreds, but Anglo-Arabians and Warmbloods too.

He will be standing at stud to maximum 3 outside TB mares per season only! 
If you want to breed a TB mare to him, book him early.

Stud fee for TB mares:   3000 Euro   LFG 
Stud fee for Trakehner mares:   2000 Euro   LFG 
Stud fee for Arabian mares:   1500 Euro   LFG 
Stud fee for WB mares:   1000 Euro   LFG 

If I used an Arab/AA or PBA with enough blood the offspring could be reg as PBA or AA (depending on the mare).  If I used a Trakehner mare it would only be eligible for PB status, is that correct?  Because he is not approved by the TBF?  And what about the BWS if you used a mare approved/reg with them what status would the foal have?  If I used a TB mare I take it that her offspring could run as a full TB not as an NTR.


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## flyingcolors (28 February 2009)

Sorry Magic, I do not know your abreviations, can you please write in full what they mean?

The foals of The Alchemist got full main book WB papers for their breeders from Westfalen, Zweibruecken, ZfDP and others as the ZSAA approval is fully recognized by most all German Associations, except Hannover and Holstein as they have a closed studbook which they applied for some years ago and are now with a closed book such as the Trakehners. Which means a stallion must really be presented and approved to enter their books, when the others accept another approval. Oldenburg accepts outside stallions after they have finalized their performance test.

Since he HAS a valid German approval, a foal by him out of a Trakehner mare can be presented for the main Trakehner book once three years old. That is the way I am going with my Palomino filly out of a Trakehner mare. 

The Trakehner stallion Angard for example was Hessen bred, had Hessen papers and was presented for approval in Hessen first, but he was fully Trakehner recognized bred and later taken over into the Trakehner books as he fulfilled the demands of approved stallions and mares and the Trakehner purebred book rules.

Once he has positively finalized his performance test, his foals can also get Trakehner papers directly on request of the breeder. Does this answer the questions? If not just ask.

Forgot: I had a buckskin filly last year out of a bay Arabian thoroughbred mare and it has Anglo-Arabian main book papers. Dam is a premium awarded mare even in the WB books and sire approved/The Alchemist, so it got full main book papers. This filly can also enter the Trakehner main book once three years old.


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## magic104 (28 February 2009)

Sorry
AA = Anglo Arab mix of Thoroughbred &amp; Arab
PBA = Part Bred Arab min of 25% Arab
TBF = Trakehner Breeders Fraternity 
BWS = British Warmblood Society
TB = Thoroughbred


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## flyingcolors (28 February 2009)

Ok, thank you.  I knew AA, PBA and TB but not the rest and the NTR is what? I have no idea about the Trakehner Breeders Fraternity, I know only the Trakehner Verband of which I am a member since centuries.


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## Fahrenheit (28 February 2009)

NTR is the Non Thoroughbred Register.


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## TrueColours (28 February 2009)

So - does anyone have any idea then if the palomino Anglo Trakehner filly in the States by Guaranteed Gold, once she gets inspected and approved with the ATA (American Trakehner Association), gets bred to an approved ATA stallion, and then has a registerable ATA foal, if that foal was sold to Europe, lets say, would the TV recognize it as a "real" Trakehner, or would the approvals done in the States by the ATA have no validity at all with the TV?

I know the opposite is true - a TV inspected/approved   foal/horse would get the same status with the ATA upon importation but I have no idea if the reverse is true with the ATA for the TV

Does anyone know for sure???

I know that Lisa's intention with Guaranteed Gold when he arrives in Scotland in 2010, is to present him to one or more WB registries. Just dont know if TV is a possibility or not for him ...


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## ColourFan (28 February 2009)

I have already answered your question in a previous post.

To start off with you have a Preliminary Book filly by a non-approved TB stallion; 
HER foal by a ATA stallion will also be entered into the Preliminary Book (and I am assuming that the ATA stallion has full Trak.Verband approval!) ... why is this foal registered in the PBook ... because just as with it's mother, it doesnot have the 6-full approved generations needed to be registered in the Main-Book.
These are hard and fast rules by the Trakehner Verband ... 6-full generations with TV approved stallions are required before a foal can be registered in the Main-Book.

Also as previously posted somewhere,  your best bet for him would be to try and get him approved and do his 70-day stallion test with the German ZSAA ... most WB Studbooks recognize this Register (except Holstein and Hannover) which would make his foals eligible for most EU approved WB Registers.
And this has absolutely NOTHING to with whether the EU approved WB Studbook is a member or not of the WBFSH!!!  Not being a member doesnot exclude EU recognition!!


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## flyingcolors (28 February 2009)

The problem for Guaranteed Gold is that he is over 3 years old already BEFORE coming to an approval in Europe. This means if you want him to get an approval for any of the WB Associations, he would have to do the 70 days test BEFORE even getting allowance to be presented for approval with any of them. Those are the rules in Germany, its probably  different and less tight in Britain. 

A stallion must be presented for approval latest until his third year in the German Associations, after approval has 1 year to do the 70 days test to keep the approval, if not done he goes into book 2. With the ZSAA a stallion gets time until he is 6 years old to finish the performance test, but that is deadline too. 

With the Trakehner Verband a colt MUST be presented for approval ELECTION during the year he is 2 years old, if not done so and not elected that year for the approvals, he cannot be presented later, except if done the stallion performance test BEFORE being presented. 

Very hard regulations, but that is how its here.


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## cloppy (28 February 2009)

I'll iron the hankies.  Thanks for the very useful put together list x


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## TrueColours (1 March 2009)

Thanks ColourFan ...  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I believe that the intention will be to get him going under saddle once again when he arrives (if not before!) and see where he is at and then decide if he will go through a 70 day test, and which one. I think once his fitness level gets back up there and the surprise wears off that he really DOES have another job other than breeding mares  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 he will do very very well in all stages of the testing process ...

Thanks again for the insight - very much appreciated!

I see the hankies have been spoken for already .. you can send a few shirts my way to do now ...


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## Cassy (17 March 2009)

My percheron mare is in foal to Crowns Wonder Pearl and is due to foal in the next few weeks. I took her back to Brackenspa Stud at the weekend so that they can look after the foaling for me. She settled into her roomy stable and apart from a glance over the stable door when we drove off with the trailer looked quite at home. We are awaiting our first foal eagerly!


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