# Happy Hoof and laminitis?



## MyBoyChe (8 April 2015)

Just noticed on Greylegs post about hay soaking a couple of people saying they wouldnt feed this to a lami prone pony.  Can someone explain why.  I only ask because in several horsey mags lately everyone seems to be singing its  praises and Spillers are supposedly at the forefront of research into lami, as I understand them.  Genuine question, no axe to grind but amongst the many confusing things, feed choices are one of the most confusing!!


----------



## Merlin11 (8 April 2015)

It is higher in sugars and starch than you would expect. When I looked into it I found other feeds with lower sugar and starch e.g. Dengie healthy hooves molasses free.


----------



## MyBoyChe (8 April 2015)

You see, confusing.  This feed is marketed as perfect for lami prone types, especially natives.  I feed Dengie hifi lite through winter when he needs any extra although tbh from now until winter he gets nothing once the soaked hay stops.  Last summer I did feed a lo cal balancer but didnt actually feel it was doing anything for him so I stopped.  He has a red rockie mini block in the field although I dont think he bothers with it much.  He does have a hedgerow and he browses in that quite a lot, he seems to like some of the odd bits of vegetation in there.


----------



## Westfield (8 April 2015)

Have you looked on the back of the bag and seen how much they say you have to feed a day to meet the recommended feed intake of 14.2  I just cannot feed that much feed a day to our Laminitis prone chap a bag would only last 4/5 days if that.

So I keep to Hi-FI lite and a good GP Sup and Hay soaked for 6hr.


----------



## 3OldPonies (10 April 2015)

For me, it actually gets the blame for causing a lami attack.  In my mini shettie who was on restricted grass plenty of exercise, wasn't overweight and then bam - I changed his feed to Happy Hoof thinking I was doing the right thing, and he was only getting a couple of handfuls as a mock feed while his bigger friends had their buckets, and lami was the result.


----------



## ester (10 April 2015)

Because their are better things/the ingredients aren't the best particularly the molglo http://www.farmandpetplace.co.uk/products/laminitis/spillers-happy-hoof-20kg.html


----------



## MyBoyChe (10 April 2015)

Im not sure why they would add molglo to a product aimed at lami prone ponies!


----------



## ester (10 April 2015)

Because most are use to molasses and wouldn't eat it otherwise so then they wouldn't eat it and sell any. Any lami good doer of mine would be getting a pelleted vit min supplement and if I had to give something plain straw chaff/fast fibre


----------



## MyBoyChe (10 April 2015)

Many years ago I worked for Spillers (and Im talking 20 years ago).. I wasnt a nutritionist, I worked in the office, but one of the things I remember learning was that for any good doer/lami prone pony a pellet was the safest thing to feed, something to do with the extrusion process I think helping to get rid of the starches, never to feed a mix/cereal type feed and never to feed sugar which includes anything molasses coated, carrots, apples etc.  Now as I say, that was 20ish years ago and I know thinking and science changes, but they are rules I try to keep now with my very good doer.  Absolutely no added sugar, not even an apple or a carrot, hay soaked for 12 hours minimum and then rinsed off and in the winter if its bad weather, 1 scoop of hifi lite before turning out.  I do find the whole thing a minefield though, you have to be so careful and really know your stuff.


----------



## tallyho! (10 April 2015)

Dont trust everything you see with a liminitis trust badge... they can pay to have that you know. It's not tested.

Laminitis is a minefield and is a major metabolic issue your vet is probably as bamboozled as you are! 

Take everything into account and do not rule anything out in terms of management... 

as long as you reduce sugar/starch/food and increase exercise.... that should solve MOST issues.


----------



## ester (10 April 2015)

I think lami  trust badge criteria

B. Criteria

1. The feed must be capable of providing a minimum of 50% of a horse or pony's energy
requirements, when fed at the recommended rate.
2. Recommended feeding advice and rates for the complete diet should satisfy the likely daily requirement for energy according to current published information.
3. Inclusion of whole cereal grains, peas and beans is excluded with the exception of where they are cooked or used to facilitate pelleting and do not exceed 5% of the total feed.
4. NSC (%) must not exceed 40% of the dry matter of the feed (where NSC is used as an estimate for the hydrolysable and rapidly fermentable carbohydrate feed fractions). 
5. Recommended feeding rate per meal should not allow NSC intake to exceed 0.25% BW.

To me an NSC of 40% is very high when I think 10% or lower is recommended for laminitics!? I guess they are allowing for that with point 5 and taking in to consideration laminitic poor doers? but still!


----------



## tallyho! (11 April 2015)

ester said:



			I think lami  trust badge criteria

B. Criteria

1. The feed must be capable of providing a minimum of 50% of a horse or pony's energy
requirements, when fed at the recommended rate.
2. Recommended feeding advice and rates for the complete diet should satisfy the likely daily requirement for energy according to current published information.
3. Inclusion of whole cereal grains, peas and beans is excluded with the exception of where they are cooked or used to facilitate pelleting and do not exceed 5% of the total feed.
4. NSC (%) must not exceed 40% of the dry matter of the feed (where NSC is used as an estimate for the hydrolysable and rapidly fermentable carbohydrate feed fractions). 
5. Recommended feeding rate per meal should not allow NSC intake to exceed 0.25% BW.

To me an NSC of 40% is very high when I think 10% or lower is recommended for laminitics!? I guess they are allowing for that with point 5 and taking in to consideration laminitic poor doers? but still!
		
Click to expand...

I know it's such a lot and to think that cereals and grains are a no-no (cooked or not) and is used in the processing for many feeds that have the badge on!

When I read the criteria, that is when I decided to stop using bagged "complete" feeds. I feed everything as a straight now. In fact, I only feed grass as I know what's in that  and I figured a laminitic does not need more feeding, it needs less feeding.


----------



## Herts05 (11 April 2015)

This may be helpful - details were supplied in writing by Dengie

Hi-Fi Good Do-er oil 1%, sugar 9%, starch 1.3%
Alfa-A Original sugar 10%, starch 2%
Hi-Fi Original sugar 9%, starch 1.5%
Alfa-A Molasses Free 4.5% sugar, 2% starch
Hi-Fi Molasses Free 2.5% sugar, 1.5% starch product


----------



## Spreebok (12 April 2015)

Dunno if this is worth mentioning, but I was feeding Happy Hoof, and just switched to Healthy Hooves Molasses Free today. The difference in texture was quite stark! 
Happy Hoof felt sticky and slightly moist and smelt very sweet. Healthy Hooves MF is dry, not sticky at all and smells savoury (very garlicky!).
Guess it goes to show the difference the molasses makes.


----------

