# Martin Clunes: Heavy Horse Power



## BraveHart (7 February 2013)

5 minute warning guys! Can't wait - there aren't enough horsey programmes on the box these days!


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## moodymare_1993 (7 February 2013)

Too right!!! So much more interesting with Martin clunes aswell


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## LisaS (7 February 2013)

After an incredibly stressful day at work i have a Large glass of red to hand with dog, hubby and I on the sofa ready watch. Good way to de-stress


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## Emilieu (7 February 2013)

Brilliant. I just love MC. He makes me smile


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## ecb89 (7 February 2013)

Ronnie and Bruce are gorgeous!


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## NeverSayNever (7 February 2013)

eeeek! the dog tho!!!!!!


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

Is he breaking them into work at 2?


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## dressagelove (7 February 2013)

Not right impressed with that guys methods!! And isn't 2 a bit young?


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

Yay Maddog!!


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## SpottyTB (7 February 2013)

Hmmm, finding the way that "trainer" is training quite interesting.. did anyone notice the way he was yanking the lunge line? I know he's a big horse but he'll still have a babies mouth and i feel for the poor sod being pulled around like that - plus the little dog was NOT helping, how can you expect a baby to just pick up lunging like that (clicks fingers) and especially with a dog yapping at its heels


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## Always_A_Moody_Mare (7 February 2013)

dressagelove said:



			Not right impressed with that guys methods!! And isn't 2 a bit young?
		
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I thought that! They are very nice though


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

dressagelove said:



			Not right impressed with that guys methods!! And isn't 2 a bit young?
		
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No 2 isnt a bit young, and i would trust him with any horse, he knows better than anyone how to do them!!


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

I thought they were asking a bit much of it on day 1!!!!


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## horsestar (7 February 2013)

The methods are not detrimental to the horse and the age is no issue.


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## SpottyTB (7 February 2013)

OH drives and he's ploughed with a pair of 3 year olds (in a ploughing comp) and they were the best pair he's had.. apparently 2 is a good age to "start" them.


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

SpottyTB said:



			Hmmm, finding the way that "trainer" is training quite interesting.. did anyone notice the way he was yanking the lunge line? I know he's a big horse but he'll still have a babies mouth and i feel for the poor sod being pulled around like that - plus the little dog was NOT helping, how can you expect a baby to just pick up lunging like that (clicks fingers) and especially with a dog yapping at its heels 

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The magic of telly!


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

I WANT / NEED a horse hoover!!!


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## Paint Me Proud (7 February 2013)

right, tomorrow I am vacuuming Chico!


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## black_n_white (7 February 2013)

Omg they Hoover them!!!


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## SpottyTB (7 February 2013)

I'll trust you on that then Fii.. i realise TV can make thing's look bad..


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## dollymix (7 February 2013)

Wow I want a horse vacuum!!


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## stacey_lou (7 February 2013)

Why go to America though? 

My mare would flip with the Hoover lol


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## DragonSlayer (7 February 2013)

Didn't take long for people to nit-pick....think of the size of the horse and they will grow more. Im guessing that starting them is better for their handling and state of mind than thinking 'oh I better wait till 4'.....

Enjoy the bloody programme!


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## horsestar (7 February 2013)

I think it's nice to see the good in people and their horses. Criticising bores me to death!


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## Coblover63 (7 February 2013)

I'm VERY disappointed that those babies are starting work at two.  Just because they are big(gish) in size, doesn't mean their bones are mature.  They've obviously never read the article on growth plates   Bruce may be taller but he's very lanky and just looks so very young to me.....


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## ladyt25 (7 February 2013)

A Vacuum!! Now why have I not tried that before?!!! Right, that's it - off to get myself one of those - no more me getting covered in hair!


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Didn't take long for people to nit-pick....think of the size of the horse and they will grow more. Im guessing that starting them is better for their handling and state of mind than thinking 'oh I better wait till 4'.....

Enjoy the bloody programme!
		
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 We are discussing and asking

whinge bag


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## DragonSlayer (7 February 2013)

Nit-picking!


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## ladyt25 (7 February 2013)

Coblover63 said:



			I'm VERY disappointed that those babies are starting work at two.  Just because they are big(gish) in size, doesn't mean their bones are mature.  Bruce may be taller but he's very lanky and just looks so very young to me.....
		
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Why shouldn't they? It's not exactly taxing work - they're not being asked to carry a person or pull something heavy. It's only lungeing essentially. You know when your youngster gets to an age when it wants to 'do' something.


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## Feathered (7 February 2013)

Paint Me Proud said:



			right, tomorrow I am vacuuming Chico!
		
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Same!! Just text my mother saying right we've got a job to do tomorrow 

OH says I can have the Clydies if he can have the lorries.


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

WTF!!!! Nearly a serious crash there


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## Sandstone1 (7 February 2013)

I realise that they are big and strong, but surely they would take longer to grow up than smaller breeds?   think people would be moaning if a smaller horse was backed at 2?

That was pure stupidity to let that jrt yap at his heels like that!  I dont care who the trainer is, its a accident waiting to happen.  I dont know about driving or heavey horses but I do know about dogs and that was stupid.


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## 3Beasties (7 February 2013)

Well said DragonSlayer! No matter what the program, if it involves horses there are always people who find something to moan about on here! 

It may not be perfect horsemanship but enjoy it for what it is. 
Awaits for the next lot of complaints regarding the stallion.....


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## Devonshire dumpling (7 February 2013)

I've done loads with Freddie aged 2.. hes massive and big built, I wouldn't have wanted to wait until he was 4 before I started trying to put bridles on etc, Freddie will be 3 end of May and he's backed, haven't "ridden him yet!  But hopefully it will be easy then!


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## horsesatemymoney (7 February 2013)

what a near miss..first the jrt then the near stallion crash! don't think I'd want my horse there for breaking (at 2!!)


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

3Beasties said:



			Well said DragonSlayer! No matter what the program, if it involves horses there are always people who find something to moan about on here! 

It may not be perfect horsemanship but enjoy it for what it is. 
Awaits for the next lot of complaints regarding the stallion.....
		
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^^ read back mine is on!! That was bliddy stupid to be fair!!!


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Didn't take long for people to nit-pick....think of the size of the horse and they will grow more. Im guessing that starting them is better for their handling and state of mind than thinking 'oh I better wait till 4'.....

Enjoy the bloody programme!
		
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yep! ....and yep!!


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## dressagelove (7 February 2013)

3Beasties said:



			Well said DragonSlayer! No matter what the program, if it involves horses there are always people who find something to moan about on here! 

It may not be perfect horsemanship but enjoy it for what it is. 
Awaits for the next lot of complaints regarding the stallion.....
		
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Err it's a horse forum.... Hence the discussion over horse related programmes! Duh. It's also called having an opinion. I don't know about people moaning, I'm fed up of people saying you can't have an opinion!


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## Irishcobs (7 February 2013)

My BBB's relations are on TV! Thank god she is a part bred, I don't think my legs would stretch that wide!


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## DragonSlayer (7 February 2013)

This is showing gritty lives with horses,  the real stuff, you want fluffy bunnies, go watch my little pony....


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## ladyt25 (7 February 2013)

Sometimes I do think some people on here have very idealistic views on how and what we should do with horses.


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## dollymix (7 February 2013)

Dragonslayer - that comment made me laugh out loud!


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## ladyt25 (7 February 2013)

The stallion ddin't do anything though did it? My 14.2hh pony will do that with his field mates on occasion. It's noise and bravado. Nothing happened, the man was in control! Horses will be horses after all.


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## Sandstone1 (7 February 2013)

Dont think its much to ask to keep the dog out of the way!!


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## DragonSlayer (7 February 2013)

Typical, the bigger boy is the wuss.....


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## 3Beasties (7 February 2013)

Lol at him having to get his hooves wet whether he wanted to or not,  that's one way to do it!


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## Hedwards (7 February 2013)

I'm not at all impressed with the fella doing the training of the 2 year olds, I have absolutely no experience with heavy breeds so don't know what work they should be doing and when... However he isn't someone id want my horses going to... Find putting 2 year olds on harness with a grumpy stallion through water a little odd??


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

I would personally like my horses to have had more ground work done prior to what they are being asked with the tack driving the river and the stallion..


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## Hedwards (7 February 2013)

Oh, just to add they are beautiful though!


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## Coblover63 (7 February 2013)

ladyt25 said:



			Why shouldn't they? It's not exactly taxing work - they're not being asked to carry a person or pull something heavy. It's only lungeing essentially. You know when your youngster gets to an age when it wants to 'do' something.
		
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Guess we'll have to agree to disagree... all the youngsters I've had have been more than happy to be baby horses until 4


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## ladyt25 (7 February 2013)

See, some would say the training's a bit rough and ready but it works doesn't it. I'd be the person going "god, what if he does this or does that" but it just goes to show a confident handler and the expectation of a horse just to get on with it, is the best attitude to have!


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## siennamum (7 February 2013)

The dog is a complete irrelevance. His point is that those horses from day one are completely obedient, unflappable and solid. I think it's a brilliant attitude and am thinking I should be harnessing my naughty horse to Axel for a few lessons.


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

horsesatemymoney said:



			what a near miss..first the jrt then the near stallion crash! don't think I'd want my horse there for breaking (at 2!!)
		
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Thats your prerogative, but he is the best at what he does!
 And he does a lot of his farm work if not most of it with his horses, I wouldnt hesitate  to send one to him if i got another Shire or  another heavy!


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## Elsbells (7 February 2013)

The guy has a lifetime of experience with working heavy horses so I think he knows a damm sight more than we do about it surely?!


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## ladyt25 (7 February 2013)

Coblover63 said:



			Guess we'll have to agree to disagree... all the youngsters I've had have been more than happy to be baby horses until 4 

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It's not about not being a baby though is it. I was leading mine out on road from 2 onwards, put a saddle on him etc etc. Got on him last autumn when he was aged 3 and the end of last year and now this year am steadily hacking him out. I guess my feeling with these youngsters is all they're being asked to do is pull something. It doesn't really put stress on their body, it's just brain work and horses like stimulation.


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

Springy said:



			I would personally like my horses to have had more ground work done prior to what they are being asked with the tack driving the river and the stallion..
		
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But you are only seeing what the telly shows you!!


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## NeverSayNever (7 February 2013)

itsmylife said:



			Dont think its much to ask to keep the dog out of the way!!
		
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totally agree. Its one of my pet hates seeing people who let their dogs run about horse's feet like this. I don't give a stuff if it's irrelevant to the horse but it's putting the dog at great risk of injury.


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## ladyt25 (7 February 2013)

siennamum said:



			The dog is a complete irrelevance. His point is that those horses from day one are completely obedient, unflappable and solid. I think it's a brilliant attitude and am thinking I should be harnessing my naughty horse to Axel for a few lessons.
		
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Exactly! Horses need to just be able to deal with stuff! It's about combatting their flight response.


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## Hedwards (7 February 2013)

Fii that's a very good point, the way its being shown on the TV is not the full picture... I feel its all a bit rushed, however we are only seeing snap shots!


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## Spellbound13 (7 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			This is showing gritty lives with horses,  the real stuff, you want fluffy bunnies, go watch my little pony....
		
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Made me giggle  totally agree.




These horses are beautiful, the program is about what the working horse is used for, and what it could be doing over here if we used them more.

yes its 'wrong' they are broke at 2, but these are just being started in their education is all.

Anyway ... Im reallllly enjoying the program


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## 3Beasties (7 February 2013)

Love the French horses.


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## Sandstone1 (7 February 2013)

siennamum said:



			The dog is a complete irrelevance. His point is that those horses from day one are completely obedient, unflappable and solid. I think it's a brilliant attitude and am thinking I should be harnessing my naughty horse to Axel for a few lessons.
		
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Hardly,  If the man cant control a dog I wouldnt let him have a horse of mine,  I also would not want to be picking the dogs brains off the grass if the horse kicked his head in.


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## Fjord (7 February 2013)

I love seeing the horses used for logging and in the vineyard. So much 'greener' than using tractors.


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## DragonSlayer (7 February 2013)

I watched a prog once with a trainer in saudi, he would get a horse to lie on the floor, place his knee on the neck and fire a pistol next to the horse. His reason? That would be the worst thing ever to happen to that horse, and training afterwards came easy....I can see the logic.


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

Fii said:



			But you are only seeing what the telly shows you!!
		
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The first day they did alot and they were in the same clothes so it was the same day then he drove the lorry away..... 

IMO 1 day is not enough to go from no tack ever to pulling a wooden thing?!??! and why on the lunge we break and school and the long rein around alot (and not in circles on the lunge) before being asked to pull anything (if ever)  Long reining is done for weeks so they know what your asking its not to be rushed its the guidelines for everything in its life

and 

IMO
that horse wasnt at a stage mentally to be harnesses up to that stallion and dragged through the water


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## zoelouisem (7 February 2013)

I dont think you can compare these horses to a normal 15h happy hacker. These are very big working animals that need to earn there keep and work with machinary that could if the horse is not very well behaved end up seriously injured. 
Also as somebody said TV shows you want it sees, its not going to show you an hour of a horse been bitted in the stable is it??


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## Charley657 (7 February 2013)

Springy said:



			I WANT / NEED a horse hoover!!! 

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I laughed at the hoover.  Typical Americans finding a lazier way to do things that actually makes you wonder why we don't do it here.


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## 3Beasties (7 February 2013)

Not that it matters but the dog was their neighbours,  I got the impression it wasn't meant to be there but as it was, the horses had to get used to it.


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## dollymix (7 February 2013)

I want to live on the vine yard! Looks heavenly


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## ew1801 (7 February 2013)

I've known plenty of horses broke to drive at 2 an backed at 3 to ride an they are fine. There's a big difference to pulling something than having to carry something.


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## BraveHart (7 February 2013)

I need a Clydie right now!!! Fella is asleep on the settee - so tempted to wake him up and let him know. Do you think I'd be pushing it to ask for one for valentines day? Haha I think 'keep dreaming' would be the response!


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## Spot_the_Risk (7 February 2013)

I think the two heavies are away for six weeks, so although what we see may seem rushed, six weeks is a pretty standard amount of time to back and ride away...


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

siennamum said:



			The dog is a complete irrelevance. His point is that those horses from day one are completely obedient, unflappable and solid. I think it's a brilliant attitude and am thinking I should be harnessing my naughty horse to Axel for a few lessons.
		
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he harnesses the stallion to a steam fire engine at the shows!  Fekin brilliant!!


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## BWa (7 February 2013)

There aren't enough of the proper old fashioned nags men left, straight forward, no messing approach. I can think of a lot of horses who would benefit from such clear boundaries.


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

Springy said:



			The first day they did alot and they were in the same clothes so it was the same day then he drove the lorry away..... 

IMO 1 day is not enough to go from no tack ever to pulling a wooden thing?!??! and why on the lunge we break and school and the long rein around alot (and not in circles on the lunge) before being asked to pull anything (if ever)  Long reining is done for weeks so they know what your asking its not to be rushed its the guidelines for everything in its life

and 

IMO
that horse wasnt at a stage mentally to be harnesses up to that stallion and dragged through the water



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It isnt the way i would do it ether , but then i am no way near as experienced as Robert Sansome! 
 Also he isnt as scared as most British people are to work a stallion, his stallions are brought up to work alongside geldings and mares, and in evry situation you can think of!


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## YorksG (7 February 2013)

BWa said:



			There aren't enough of the proper old fashioned nags men left, straight forward, no messing approach. I can think of a lot of horses who would benefit from such clear boundaries.
		
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Couldn't agree more.
Many horses are broken to drive at 2 or 3, the forces on the horse are very different from the forces placed on them by riding. They pull with the collar on their shoulders, there is next to no weight on the backs.


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## ann-jen (7 February 2013)

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with the dog as such as much better horses get used to yapping dogs and don't view it as anything to be scared of. I'd be more worried of the dog getting inadvertently squished tho lol


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## noodle_ (7 February 2013)

this is what i was going to ask ^^^

is it ok to break a horse to drive at 2?


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## horseandshoes77 (7 February 2013)

ladyt25 said:



			See, some would say the training's a bit rough and ready but it works doesn't it. I'd be the person going "god, what if he does this or does that" but it just goes to show a confident handler and the expectation of a horse just to get on with it, is the best attitude to have!
		
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here here, and as far as dogs concerned well it didn't seem that detrimental (sp) god these horses are being broken to do a job and not prance around etc.... just makes me laugh at all the threads regarding..im feeding this and that my horse is bucking me off I cant handle it...well work feed ratio and stop bubble wrapping it, these are big strong animals being well fed and well looked after but omg they are being trained from 2 to do a job...and shock horror they aren't wearing pink bridles and fluffly nosebands... I didn't see any animal abuse at all... and all horses looked happy !!


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## ladyt25 (7 February 2013)

Well, clearly those horses were completely ruined by that guy's training and dog chasing.....

Enjoyed that!


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

There you go, a pair of laid back, well behaved, well done, horses!  Nuff said!  

 Really enjoyed that, brilliant program!!


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## competitiondiva (7 February 2013)

Hoover's have been used on show yards here for years to!


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## Sarah W (7 February 2013)

I saw Martin Clunes with Monty Roberts and Ronnie and Bruce in Bristol a couple of years ago. They've grown!!!


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## Megibo (7 February 2013)

I am enjoying the programme  my only nit pick is how some of the horses are obese  *runs and hides* 


I love love love the budweiser clydes.


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## DragonSlayer (7 February 2013)

..and dogs...i let my dogs run in the paddocks, means now all horses cope with loose dogs out riding and my dogs don't chase horses.....


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## Sandstone1 (7 February 2013)

ann-jen said:



			Personally I wouldn't have a problem with the dog as such as much better horses get used to yapping dogs and don't view it as anything to be scared of. I'd be more worried of the dog getting inadvertently squished tho lol
		
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I agree horses need to get used to dogs but in a controlled way, not when they are first being lunged and with a out of control dog snapping at them.


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

They turned out fab however I feel they rushed the first day


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## Goldenstar (7 February 2013)

Nice programme horses getting on with stuff no fussing.
It's very common to start harness work at two big horses like that pulling two men in a light carriage are not working that hard.


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## horsestar (7 February 2013)

What a fantastic programme thoroughly enjoyed that and I didn't have one problem with any of the 'methods' I thought martin has showed us how special these different  breeds are and how talented they are! I'm proud of those horses!!!


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## NeverSayNever (7 February 2013)

great programme, enjoyed it very much! Loved the immense pride he had driving his 2 at the end

... I _dont_ allow my dogs to run loose around my horses, both my mares are well used to them and don't react, but I value my dogs too much to take risks with them.


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## Orangehorse (7 February 2013)

It is a TV programme, not a minute by minute account of how to break in a horse!

I would call him a nagsman too - and you end up with horses that do as they are told without fussing.


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## ribbons (7 February 2013)

Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.


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## SpruceRI (7 February 2013)

horsestar said:



			What a fantastic programme thoroughly enjoyed that and I didn't have one problem with any of the 'methods' I thought martin has showed us how special these different  breeds are and how talented they are! I'm proud of those horses!!!
		
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Well said


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## DragonSlayer (7 February 2013)

Well said ribbons


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## horseandshoes77 (7 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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wish there was a like button !


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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Some of us do know what we are doing when it comes to breaking dont just asume we dont because we thought he rushed it 

We ARE entitled to our OWN opinion


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## justabob (7 February 2013)

Megibo said:



			I am enjoying the programme  my only nit pick is how some of the horses are obese  *runs and hides* 


I love love love the budweiser clydes.
		
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You take the prize, you have just posted THE most ridiculous piece of nonsense on this thread. Well done because you have had a lot of competition.


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## Feathered (7 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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This!!!!! Very well said.


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## sandi_84 (7 February 2013)

Aaah I missed the last few minutes because of my stupid TV, it was just as he was leaving the Amish guys and their team to go back to Ronnie and Bruce....

What happened? Can someone tell me please as I'm a bit mad now, was looking forward to it for aaaages!


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## Sandstone1 (7 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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Im all in favour of horses getting used to dogs, but the first time the horse is being lunged is not the time to do it!  Also the dog was out of control.  They should have stopped, caught the dog and then carried on.  I dont care if it was his dog or not, it was stupid and dangerous for all concerned.


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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Well done , you put that a lot better than i did!


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## justabob (7 February 2013)

Thankyou ribbons, thank god for your wonderful post.


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## holeymoley (7 February 2013)

Really like the programme


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## Sandstone1 (7 February 2013)

Springy said:



			Some of us do know what we are doing when it comes to breaking dont just asume we dont because we thought he rushed it 

We ARE entitled to our OWN opinion 

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Well said.


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## FanyDuChamp (7 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Typical, the bigger boy is the wuss.....  

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Certainly it is so with my 2, Caps, all 17-3hh of him, is a total wuss, but Fany my heavy horse, 14-2hh, is solid and stoic.


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## maisie06 (7 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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WELL SAID!!! If all the armchair "experts" got off their backsides and did something practical with common sense we would not have all these "problem horses" who are then practically destroyed with parrelli or some other such crap. 

I really admire these old nagsmen who like the poster quoted has said have forgotten more than most of us will ever learn and it's a real pleasure to watch them in action.

As for the dog....well my horse is rock solid with dogs thanks to the annoying pack of JRT's and a random standard poodle whom used to reside at the yard he was on with his old owners.


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## Rockchick_uk (7 February 2013)

I have noticed alot of replies here start.....I have no experience of heavy horses but....i didnt like...

Guys these are horses that weigh over a tonne in weight, they are taller, wider and longer than most things.

They are broken to drive at 2 and usually broken to ride at 4.

You have to be stern with these animals otherwise they become dangerous and out of control.

Robert Sampson is a experienced handler of these animals purely because its his families way of life, everything he did on that programme was the right way.

And why do i have this opinion........I own a heavy who was once a ill mannered bolshy brat who WAS dangerous and out of control, without the knowledgeable people around me like Robert and the Midlands Heavy Horse Association i would more than likely be dead!!! squished somewhere!


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## whoatherejig (7 February 2013)

I was cringeing at the lungeing, but it makes you wonder if we are wusses? The Clydies appear to have turned out well, and it was all no-nonsense, just get on with it.
I know vacuums have been in use for a while, but I'm thinking of getting the upright on the naughty rhino at the weekend. Don't think he'll object!


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## littleladylou (7 February 2013)

Very, aptly put. This programme documented people who use horses for a purpose not a prize. They were all healthy, happy looking horses. Unless you are a major, like the drumhorse I am not sure you can comment 


ribbons said:



			Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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## ann-jen (7 February 2013)

itsmylife said:



			I agree horses need to get used to dogs but in a controlled way, not when they are first being lunged and with a out of control dog snapping at them.
		
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My horse was brought up with a yapping pack of dogs and now never bats an eyelid when meets them on hacks or at shows.  The YO's dog even ran underneath her once :-o the trouble is when you are out and about you don't always meet dogs in a controlled way and although I agree it mightn't be the best introduction in the world, that horse didn't look like it hadn't encountered yapping dogs before!


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## Rockchick_uk (7 February 2013)

I do wonder if people stop the huntsman or whipper in during a hunt to ask them not to allow the 40 odd hounds running around the horses barking etc to be quiet around their horses lol

Or the racehorse trainers racing 2 years olds??

Or even the 4 year old show horses who have had their heads tied in to make them look pretty??

Theres good and bad in the horse world, just dont put someone down because you dont understand their methods


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## ribbons (7 February 2013)

Can't quote on phone
Itsmylife says they should have stopped, caught the dog and re started.
1. No they shouldn't. They worked through it and in minutes the horse was ignoring the dog.
2. The idiots escapee dog that may be encountered in the future will most definitely be out of control.
3. You must be a superb horseman/woman to feel qualified to state what a man like Robert should or shouldn't be doing. 
4. You are of course entitled to voice your opinions, it's just that they make it quite plain that point 3 is most definitely not the case.


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## BorgRae (7 February 2013)

Brill programme!!! It's nice to see such happy and healthy horses! 


...For the record, I want a Clydie called Bruce!!!


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## Sandstone1 (7 February 2013)

Rockchick_uk said:



			I do wonder if people stop the huntsman or whipper in during a hunt to ask them not to allow the 40 odd hounds running around the horses barking etc to be quiet around their horses lol

Or the racehorse trainers racing 2 years olds??

Or even the 4 year old show horses who have had their heads tied in to make them look pretty??

Theres good and bad in the horse world, just dont put someone down because you dont understand their methods
		
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Dont know what hunt you are with, but hounds are mostly under control and not yapping at the horses heels


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			3. You must be a superb horseman/woman to feel qualified to state what a man like Robert should or shouldn't be doing.
		
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Ill take 3 as a compliment and ignore your sarky point 4!!!


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## Sandstone1 (7 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			Can't quote on phone
Itsmylife says they should have stopped, caught the dog and re started.
1. No they shouldn't. They worked through it and in minutes the horse was ignoring the dog.
2. The idiots escapee dog that may be encountered in the future will most definitely be out of control.
3. You must be a superb horseman/woman to feel qualified to state what a man like Robert should or shouldn't be doing. 
4. You are of course entitled to voice your opinions, it's just that they make it quite plain that point 3 is most definitely not the case.
		
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Yes they should have stopped, the dog could quite easily have been killed, Ever seen a dog kicked in the head?? I have its not pretty.


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## inamac (7 February 2013)

Interesting programme, but I was disappointed that no one questioned the fact that all the American heavy horses were short docked (despite the fact that it is illegal in some US states, and has been banned in this country for a century).


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## Welsh (7 February 2013)

Enjoyed the programme & those Budweiser Clydesdales are awesome, I just love the adverts they're in! &#10084;


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## dancingkris (7 February 2013)

Well said Ribbons - can't quote as on my phone. I don't really post much on here but it drives me mad about the amount of experts there are out there who'd do everything better. I've had horses all my life - yet these animals surprise me everyday and the old adage that you never stop learning is so true. The amount of horses on my yard that are rude, bargy and downright bad mannered is


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## Nugget La Poneh (7 February 2013)

I am deliberately watching this on my own on playback without the OH, and thanking a higher being that dad is on the other side of the world currently as I have caught both of them eye up the Le Poneh. OH to hitch up to an all-singing, all-dancing Amish style something or other (he likes the mix of horse and powered machines) and dad to use in the woods logging.

Am tempted to break fat boy to harness, if only to harrow the paddocks....


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## Springy (7 February 2013)

None of mine are bargey or ill mannered etc  more ground work doesnt make a bargy horse ... no idea where this theory is from


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## dancingkris (7 February 2013)

Oops bloody phone! Its nice to see an old fashioned horseman who stands no messing, is confident enough to give his horses confidence - sadly a dying breed these days. The big lads look happy and healthy - they have respect for their handlers and know their place which is more than can be said for a lot of horses these days!


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## RutlandH2O (7 February 2013)

Fii said:



			he harnesses the stallion to a steam fire engine at the shows!  Fekin brilliant!!
		
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Robert also hunts Axel.

Re: the JRT nipping at the Clydie's feet...I know of 2 JRTs that have been killed by a Clyde gelding and a Shire mare, respectively. All it took was just one stamped foot, and splat, dead dogs.


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## Trinity Fox (7 February 2013)

I am just watching end of it on the plus 1 , silent witness tonight sad this thread has not had more mentions of how fab some of the horses in this programme were. Love the fact the drum horse got the rank of Major and how great a british team went to the boat pulling comp.

Loved the loggers and the fishing horses, and the Amish horses wow, there are so many so called experts always willing to criticise on here, I am all for the nags man making a comeback, we take a few to break and bring on and there would be so many less problem horses or even worse my pet hate the phrase project horse if there were a few more trainers who gave straight forward no messing non confusing instructions to the horses they are training that is what they understand.

Also did make me chuckle Martin has been banned from driving and is considering using the horses he always looks so straight, nice to know he is human just like the rest of us.


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

I am not sure if Robert still does his working horse days, but if he does i thoroughly recommend any one to go and see what this man can do with his horses first hand, he also trains people as well as horses 
 I have seen him harrowing a field, NOt walking behind the harrow, but driving a pair from the back of ridden horse!


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## Fii (7 February 2013)

I like the Comptoir (sp) horses! I met a lady at a show who bought some of these to drive and work as she couldnt replace her Shire with a type she wanted, good old short, square, working types, not leggy show types!  She was most impressed with them, and didnt cost any more to import them than it would to finally buy a Shire!


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## cambrica (7 February 2013)

Brilliant TV ! Martin Clunes is as gentle as his Clydsdales and I would love to spend a week in the company of Robert Sansome, completely respect him.


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## sandi_84 (7 February 2013)

Hurrah for STV+1!  I got to see the end of it after all!
No comments from me except that it was a fabby program, loved all the horses and it was so so lovely seeing all the different jobs they do - I didn't know they fished/trawled with horses before! 
Ronnie and Bruce are gorgeous and it was lovely seeing Martin Clunes driving them together at the end!
If I had land, a heavy or two and more experience I'd definitely be going eco-friendly


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## devonlass (7 February 2013)

Springy said:



			IMO
that horse wasnt at a stage mentally to be harnesses up to that stallion and dragged through the water



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He did it perfectly fine though didn't he,and am pretty sure hasn't suffered terrible mental trauma from the experience.
Really don't see the problem myself,the man clearly is respected in his field,had control at all times and achieved for his client and clients horses exactly what he set out to.Seems like a good result to me.

Have been chuckling at this whole thread,I specifically came on to look for it just to see how much the programme had been ripped to bits.Can always rely on a few HHO members to know better

I enjoyed the programme,learnt a lot and thought it showed working horses in a positive but also realistic way.


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## micki (7 February 2013)

I watched it on plus1. It was a brilliant program and i thought the horses were broken in well. Yes they are broken in at 2 for driving so no they weren't done too early. I would love to be able to go and have some training from the bloke as i thought his no nonsense attitude was brilliant and there are a lot of horses around that would benefit from being with him for a while.


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## TrasaM (8 February 2013)

Brilliant program  loved the attitude of all concerned especially the Amish. Amazed with them working such big teams so competently. Just lovely. 

What nonsense about them being too young at two years. Human bodies respond to exercise by growing stronger bone I would expect that horses respond the same way. Stronger muscles help develop stronger bones and tendons. 

Why are JRTs so irritating! Sorry, when dogs behave like this they take their chances.


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## TrasaM (8 February 2013)

micki said:



			I watched it on plus1. It was a brilliant program and i thought the horses were broken in well. Yes they are broken in at 2 for driving so no they weren't done too early. I would love to be able to go and have some training from the bloke as i thought his no nonsense attitude was brilliant and there are a lot of horses around that would benefit from being with him for a while.
		
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Oh yes


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## Kaylum (8 February 2013)

Didn't enjoy it, the JR put it away, having seen a dog get under a horses legs and bring it down and the dog killed, why risk it.  

Secondly the only word for this program was flick flick flick, yes getting into one story and then flick over to other side of the world. Very very badly made.


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## Merlin11 (8 February 2013)

I enjoyed it. We get very few horsey programmes so it's always a change. It could perhaps have been edited better and I also didn't like seeing the jrt at their feet but loved seeing the Clydesdales. The farm that Martin got them from is just up the road from me and I get my hay from them. Their Clydesdales win lots of prizes at shows. I definitely want one or two!


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## Spit That Out (8 February 2013)

And then you wonder why there aren't more horsey program's on the TV ...poor producers must be hiding behind their sofa waiting for the "I know better than you" HHO brigade to get typing on their keyboards in outrage at something/nothing.

I agree with you Ribbons, a sensible post about a great horsey program and makes a change from the soaps, sports and talant shows broadcasted on a daily basis.

I would love to see a catch up program in a couple of months/year to see how his lads are getting on...especially after such a traumatic start to life


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## daviedevs (8 February 2013)

I enjoyed the program as i love heavy horses. Bit miffed they didnt vist one of the heavy horse riding centres though..just to show they can do more than carry or pull heavy stuff.

I'm sure Annie at Cumbria heavy horses would of loved to take part...the publicity would of been great for them.

Still good to see horses on the TV in their element..and not in lasagne!!


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## Montyforever (8 February 2013)

I really enjoyed it!  I did cringe a few times with the Clydesdales  first training bit but I'd rather see them go through all that and end up as horses that can cope with anything at the end rather than being a liability as soon as they go out into the world. The water bit made me laugh, he's never going to be afraid to go through a puddle in his working life is he!!  
I would send a horse to him for training, purely because of his no nonsense attitude! and to see his percherons!!


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## everichred (8 February 2013)

Robert is lovely as are his sons who are my farriers.

They know how to handle horses,  might daren't even so much as fidgit when they are shoeing.


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## Pinkvboots (8 February 2013)

I also noticed the barbed wire fencing at the trainers yard.


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## poiuytrewq (8 February 2013)

I Loved the programme- I like Martin Clunes's attitude towards horses...quite cute 
Im amazed at the amount of you guys on HHO whilst watching- true multitasking that is! My o/h would have gone mad "you cant be watching it AND be on the laptop....MAKE YOUR CHOICE!!) Its his pet hate I'm jealous you all seem to get away with it!

I fully admit me and my daughter exchanged a few glances throughout the show BUT the results speak for themselves surely? I wonder if a 4 year old horse that size would be a nightmare to break having got the confidence and opinionated attitude? (might be totally wrong also!)
The dog irritated me, If my neighbour let their little dog at my horses like that Id kick it even if the horse didn't.
I used to ride a Clydesdale and it was probably one of the best riding experiences ever. He was amazing Polite, brave responsive...Highly excitable in open spaces which is just amazing to watch and ride- He was 100% safe just lolloped round like a giant puppy but with amazing brakes to boot!


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## Double_choc_lab (8 February 2013)

Pinkvboots said:



			I also noticed the barbed wire fencing at the trainers yard.
		
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Oh FGS.  Lets close down every yard that has barbed wire on it shall we???  Do you know those army horses were even exercised alongside the deadly lorries and cars - shock horror.  Perhaps I should change my forum name to "Steel toe caps" looking at yours.

Perhaps I am a foolish risk taker or maybe just realistic.  Great programme.  I also wish there were more real horsemen like that trainer.

BTW JRT was his neighbours - perhaps they should do more about training their animals.


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## pansymouse (8 February 2013)

Fii said:



			I like the Comptoir (sp) horses! I met a lady at a show who bought some of these to drive and work as she couldnt replace her Shire with a type she wanted, good old short, square, working types, not leggy show types!  She was most impressed with them, and didnt cost any more to import them than it would to finally buy a Shire!
		
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I think you're probably talking about Jane who is a real Comtois expert she rides, drives and shows them plus imports and sells them.  I've been to her place and ridden one - such lovely horses and so good to handle.  You need to know some French to communicate effectively with hers because they are started in France which also makes them initially confused when they are asked to work on the "wrong" side of the road!

Interestingly Jane says they mature very quickly and are worked and ridden from two years old.  Because of this they are also a popular meat breed but the working/ridden and meat bloodlines are quite different.


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## happyhack (8 February 2013)

This place never changes does it! There's always an expert that knows better than the expert!

I thoroughly enjoyed the programme and thought that the trainers no nonsense old school style of training was great and needs to be brought back. His horses all looked happy, healthy and there was mutual respect between them.
I love Martin Clunes TV programmes, they are light hearted but educational and he is wonderful to watch


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## Megibo (8 February 2013)

justabob said:



			You take the prize, you have just posted THE most ridiculous piece of nonsense on this thread. Well done because you have had a lot of competition.

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Oh dear. Read what I put Justabob.  There was a clear difference between the heavy horses that were the right weight and the ones that were over. 


Great programme, it was lovely seeing Martin driving his horses at the end looking pleased as punch


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## cambrica (8 February 2013)

Some of you may find this web page interesting. There is a piece on Robert Sampson if you scroll down.
http://simplymarvelous.wordpress.com/category/draft-horse-teams/


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## EPRider (8 February 2013)

A farm not far from me is worked by horses.  The farmer breaks his in at 2 and his reason is that "The body gets tired before the brain gets bored".  That way they do not start to think how to come up with evasions and vices.  All lessons are short but the young horses learn to do everything alongside the more mature animals.


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## cattysmith (8 February 2013)

Programme was brilliant! Really lovely horses doing what they do best.  HHO is full of people who have their main priority to criticise others because they think know best. Agree wholehertedly with others about the bargy horses! I doubt those who know what they're doing and the people who make the programmes care much for these people anyway and just laugh to theirselves as they see Twinkle Toes tagging Martha face first through the mud because he's being allowed to "express" his natural instincts, bless.


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## humblepie (8 February 2013)

What I liked from a presentation point of view is that Martin Clunes isn't an over excitable presenter like so much of television today and was driving the lorry along in everyday clothes, no "show" or gloss on it.   

The beer horses in America were impressive and very interesting to see the other working horses as well.


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## Amaranta (8 February 2013)

ew1801 said:



			I've known plenty of horses broke to drive at 2 an backed at 3 to ride an they are fine. There's a big difference to pulling something than having to carry something.
		
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This^^^

There is a world of difference between having a rider on your back and pulling a weight!


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## Amaranta (8 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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I have to say I totallly agree with you


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## onemorehorse (8 February 2013)

Sorry, I have to say I found this programme a bit disturbing at times and didn't enjoy it as much as I was looking forward to it.  
The training of those 2 youngsters, the docked tails of the Budweiser Clydesdales, the weight pulling contest (pleased to see the British entrants had braided their horses tails up though).

I used to work with shire horses and learnt from one of the most respected heavy horsemen in the country at the time.  Not that I would call myself an expert or anything like one.

However, it was great to see "proper" horses having some tv coverage and it did give a good insight in to different breeds and the jobs they do.  (Although there were not much on Shire horses which are the best!)  Particularly enjoyed the drum horse training and the logging horses.


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## Honey08 (8 February 2013)

ladyt25 said:



			Well, clearly those horses were completely ruined by that guy's training and dog chasing.....

Enjoyed that! 

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Absolutely, they looked really stressed and overbent at the end of the programme, really fizzed up!



inamac said:



			Interesting programme, but I was disappointed that no one questioned the fact that all the American heavy horses were short docked (despite the fact that it is illegal in some US states, and has been banned in this country for a century).
		
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Yes, that was the only thing that I didn't like about the programme, seeing all the docked tails.  Even at the French pulling competition, "ours"stood out with their tails plaitted up.   


Generally speaking, I really enjoyed watching this.  A lady up the road from us has Clydesdales, one has 90 BD points and has done BE90.


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## Oberon (8 February 2013)

Loved the programme.

I simply adore Martin Clunes - he's as daft and soft in the head about horses as I am.

NO Ardennes featured though  My poor Tank was not represented .


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## TrasaM (8 February 2013)

Oberon said:



			Loved the programme.

I simply adore Martin Clunes - he's as daft and soft in the head about horses as I am.

NO Ardennes featured though  My poor Tank was not represented .
		
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Lol.. And not a Friesian in sight


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## Maesfen (8 February 2013)

Amaranta said:



			I have to say I totallly agree with you 

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Me too.


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## YorksG (8 February 2013)

The fishing horses looked just like sisters Big Girl, she is a Westphalian Kaltblut, but I rather think that they and the Belgian Drafts etc share a fair bit of DNA


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## Oberon (8 February 2013)

TrasaM said:



			Lol.. And not a Friesian in sight 

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I thought Friesian were more carriage than draft?


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## Patchworkpony (8 February 2013)

Says a lot for the nature of MC's horses that they had everything thrown at them at once, including blinkers, strapped to a weight and that yappy dog and it didn't spoil them. An ignorant trainer if you ask me. Most people when they break a horse to harness (including me) start with several weeks of steady long reining then introduce the harness and blinkers slowly, introduce 'shafts' and finally attach a tyre or log with quick release string to give the horse a feeling of pulling a weight. Been doing it for over thirty years and would NEVER take any kind of risk as a runaway harness horse is lethal to everyone.

Two is a good age to start a large horse with slow basic training but not heavy work and encouraging a novice driver to take charge of a pair of inexperienced babies is highly risky. As for the near miss with the stallion MC was lucky he didn't turn over! When I was taught to drive I had safely drummed into me over and over again as the top priority, I suppose I was lucky as my trainers (also friends) were international four-in-hand champions. Also what about a hard hat for MC? HH has reported two terrible accidents this week - both head injuries, one fatal and one near fatal. Guess I'm just old school that respects the power and above all the potential danger of horses in the wrong hands.

Hated the slack barbed wired fencing by the way!


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## TrasaM (8 February 2013)

Oberon said:



			I thought Friesian were more carriage than draft?
		
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It's all still dragging things  I think the older style chunky ones were used as farm animals as well.


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## Oberon (8 February 2013)

TrasaM said:



			It's all still dragging things  I think the older style chunky ones were used as farm animals as well.
		
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OOh I didn't know that.


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## Jericho (8 February 2013)

Funny - gotta love HHO for its opinions! FWIW my views:

1) Martin Clunes - a well known gentle presenter, easy to watch, obviously loves his horses which is half his appeal. Seems a bit of an innocent.
2) Liked the get on with it attitude of Samson chap - no frills, good honest man whose horses respect and he treats them with respect
3) Was a bit 'eeekkk' when they hitched him up to Axel the stallion but horses learn a lot from a lead and this is a common training technique. Didnt particularly like Axel attacking the horse in the yard but it was just sensationalism for TV purposes, plus it showed how powerful and agressive these giants are, highlights how impressive they are and how amazing it is that us humans can work with them. All just show for TV.
4) i doubt very much those 2 youngsters were just harnessed up and pulling a pallet around on the first day - but for the purpose of the programme they are not going to show the boring stuff of introducing harness etc.
5) the JRTs chasing after horses heels - again I  bet they had a whole lot of footage of those boys lunging nice and quietly but hey thats not good TV - the general non horsey public would find that boring. I actually laughed at the JRT - a bit stupid of it to be doing that but gotta love their spunk - hell that Clydesdale is MASSIVE compared to that dog but it still wanted to take it on! And the pallet it was dragging.
6) Good to see a programme raising awareness of these animals and the fact they will become a dying breed if people dont use them.
7) Great to see the Budweiser horses - again fantastic coverage of them if a little twee.  Hoovering a horse - much more interesting than just a boring old groom.
8) I did go hmmmm a bit at the barbed wire shot but again it was the style of the show - no fancy white post and rail fencing here at this good honest Scottish working mans farm (see horses aint just for snobs you know!). What did make me laugh was the arty shot with some ragwort in the foreground ... bit more research needed on that bit - lovely yellow flower from the countryside ....ohhh wait its very poisonus to horses!

Come on guys - it was a TV programme not an educational DVD  - enjoyable, always lovely to see some beautiful horses but edited to show the 'interesting, funny' bits. Was never going to be a serious show.


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## onemorehorse (8 February 2013)

Patchworkpony said:



			Says a lot for the nature of MC's horses that they had everything thrown at them at once, including blinkers, strapped to a weight and that yappy dog and it didn't spoil them. An ignorant trainer if you ask me. Most people when they break a horse to harness (including me) start with several weeks of steady long reining then introduce the harness and blinkers slowly, introduce 'shafts' and finally attach a tyre or log with quick release string to give the horse a feeling of pulling a weight. Been doing it for over thirty years and would NEVER take any kind of risk as a runaway harness horse is lethal to everyone.

Two is a good age to start a large horse with slow basic training but not heavy work and encouraging a novice driver to take charge of a pair of inexperienced babies is highly risky. As for the near miss with the stallion MC was lucky he didn't turn over! When I was taught to drive I had safely drummed into me over and over again as the top priority, I suppose I was lucky as my trainers (also friends) were international four-in-hand champions. Also what about a hard hat for MC? HH has reported two terrible accidents this week - both head injuries, one fatal and one near fatal. Guess I'm just old school that respects the power and above all the potential danger of horses in the wrong hands.

Hated the slack barbed wired fencing by the way!
		
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I thought that too, especially about his lack of experience with two very young horses.  I was a bit shocked when although it said he had never driven, he was given the reins of the team of 6 Budweiser horses.  I once had a go at 4 shires but only exercising at home and with lots of experienced people around.  You couldn't really see everything though so I presume there were plenty of people on the ground!


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## Mondy (8 February 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			I watched a prog once with a trainer in saudi, he would get a horse to lie on the floor, place his knee on the neck and fire a pistol next to the horse. His reason? That would be the worst thing ever to happen to that horse, and training afterwards came easy....I can see the logic.
		
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One man's training, another man's abuse.

Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.


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## Mondy (8 February 2013)

ew1801 said:



			I've known plenty of horses broke to drive at 2 an backed at 3 to ride an they are fine. There's a big difference to pulling something than having to carry something.
		
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It's still a young skeleton with open growth-lines doing the pulling.


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## Luci07 (8 February 2013)

I found the programme interesting. I suspended my normal beliefs as I know nothing about heavy horses, best way to start or when you should do. I gave MC and the backer credit for a bit of common sense! Axel wasn't attacking the horse - he went after a mare and was a good example of when things can go wrong quickly but equally how RS got him back and under control almost immediately. I thought it demonstrated how well he had trained the stallion!

I personally hated that blooming dog and would have had strong words with my neighbour for letting the wretched thing chase and try to hang onto the horses tail. Forget the horse kicking it, I would have!. I have 3 staffords at the yard and they do not. EVER. chase the horses. Its not rocket science to put the smallest amount of effort to train your dog!


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## michelleyork (8 February 2013)

FWIW I actually really enjoyed the program, but I was sat there at one point and actually said to the dog 'bet there is a thread 8 pages long on HHO with people not happy about certain things'!  I paused the TV and yep, I was right!

I thought the program was well done, and I enjoyed watching it.  The same way if you watch another type of program with a person that is passionate about its content there are always opinions of how to do it better.

In my opinion those two horses of MC's have had a fair bit of ground work done with them, before they apparently just plonked the harnesses on.  One had already won a lot of prizes as a foal and I am sure you don't just drag them out the field to do that!  They also appeared to have traveled very well in the lorry (and unloaded very calmly) and at one point MC was having a good rub of its back and gave one a pat on the back - surely youngsters without any training wouldn't cope with that??

Overall good program, enjoyed seeing the variations or horses still used as work horses, and would love to see a follow up of the program in a years time to see what the horses are up to and how they get along.

One of my favourite parts was when the Axel took the horse through the water, came out the other side and Axel then had a quick word and surprise surprise the youngster went straight through the second time!!


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## CL66 (8 February 2013)

Totally agree, Jericho


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## Ibblebibble (8 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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well said 
on the topic of the dog i thought it was martins dog as I'm sure somewhen later in the programme he had a JRT in the car with him
I deliberately logged off HHO before i watched it as i knew the nit picking would spoil it for me


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## littlemisslauren (8 February 2013)

I enjoyed it! 

I know nothing about driving but could clearly see the trainer knew his stuff. I had no problems with how he did things. We have to remember the youngsters were with him for 6 weeks, we didn't see all of their training!

I'm suprised this hasn't been mentioned but I was upset with the state of the Amish horses feet  Clearly well valued horses but their feet needed attention.


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## Springy (8 February 2013)

Important glad patchwork pony agrees with me.... Not sayingthatit was all bad but it was rushed....
Glad the turned out ok


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## Oberon (8 February 2013)

littlemisslauren said:



			I'm suprised this hasn't been mentioned but I was upset with the state of the Amish horses feet  Clearly well valued horses but their feet needed attention.
		
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What did you consider was wrong with their feet?


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## suestowford (8 February 2013)

I loved the prawn fishing Brabants - OH's comment was 'I bet they take some stopping once they get going'

Also loved the Czech man with his logging team. What a well-trained team!

Has anyone ever read a book by Tim Severin called 'Crusader'? In it he wants to recreate a Crusader's journey to the Holy Land and to do it he buys a 4 year old unbroken Ardennes. Havign read the things that happened while they were trying to break this horse in, I can quite understand why people would start the training earlier.


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## Shantara (8 February 2013)

Well I for one loved it 

I don't see anything wrong with starting work at 2. They weren't exactly pulling anything heavy! Had they made them do that boat thing...then yea, that would have been cruel.

Axel is amazing! I WANT HIM!!
Also, I've had a gelding going at a mare like that, it happens!

I love shows like this  Shame I couldn't watch it on TV (Working until 11pm ) ITV player is ace.


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## littlemisslauren (8 February 2013)

Oberon said:



			What did you consider was wrong with their feet?
		
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I saw one with terribly cracked and splayed feet, in need of a trim. I think OH recorded it so I will have another skip through it this afternoon so I can pin point exacly which ones concerned me.


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## skewbaldhobbyhorse (8 February 2013)

The Amish horses looked like they needed an urgent trim at the very least. And the state of their harness, working harness or not.

And what about putting that young horses in to the shafts next to the stallion, then get it through the water without a major accident.

Having driven horses (single only) I for one would not have sat on the exercise vehicle like MC even if it was my horse being 'trained'!

And what about when MC let the stallion run in to the other horse (gelding?) complete with trap?  He needed some lessons before being let loose with a strong horse on the end of his reins.


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## Oberon (8 February 2013)

littlemisslauren said:



			I saw one with terribly cracked and splayed feet, in need of a trim. I think OH recorded it so I will have another skip through it this afternoon so I can pin point exacly which ones concerned me.
		
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I did see some odd shaped feet but as they were all barefoot, sound and working in mud (which can produce 'scooping' hooves that aid with traction) I considered it all cosmetic.

The definition on my TV isn't that fine so I didn't see anything closer though.


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## Norfolk Pie (8 February 2013)

Patchworkpony said:



			Says a lot for the nature of MC's horses that they had everything thrown at them at once, including blinkers, strapped to a weight and that yappy dog and it didn't spoil them. An ignorant trainer if you ask me. Most people when they break a horse to harness (including me) start with several weeks of steady long reining then introduce the harness and blinkers slowly, introduce 'shafts' and finally attach a tyre or log with quick release string to give the horse a feeling of pulling a weight. Been doing it for over thirty years and would NEVER take any kind of risk as a runaway harness horse is lethal to everyone.

Two is a good age to start a large horse with slow basic training but not heavy work and encouraging a novice driver to take charge of a pair of inexperienced babies is highly risky. As for the near miss with the stallion MC was lucky he didn't turn over! When I was taught to drive I had safely drummed into me over and over again as the top priority, I suppose I was lucky as my trainers (also friends) were international four-in-hand champions. Also what about a hard hat for MC? HH has reported two terrible accidents this week - both head injuries, one fatal and one near fatal. Guess I'm just old school that respects the power and above all the potential danger of horses in the wrong hands.

Hated the slack barbed wired fencing by the way!
		
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This.
Personally I thought he came across as ignorant and arrogant - what was his comment early on "I can get a tune out of anything but ...(something to the effect of).... he'll walk all over you if I don't train you"

I'd love to think anyone "we'll respected" and high up in a discipline was worth listening to.  Sadly I've learnt there's plenty who think they can when they can't, and it's always to the horses detriment.  

No, there may not have been any long term damage (ditto the concerns about skeletal and muscular development on a young horse, but I don't know enough about heavy horses to comment) but is it really necessary to swing a horse round on the lunge, hanging off it's mouth.  Hardly productive to Its way of moving.  Mind you, that's how a lot of people seem to train their horses in every stage - no real logic, just chuck enough stuff at them and hope they figure It out.  Those that don't can be put into the also ran pile if they've coped mentally, those that don't will just get branded "quirky"

Tired of seeing it day in day out really, and very sad when programmes like this put it out their to the wider world, no wonder younger riders have such little feel for their horses.  I like Martin Clunes, but poor publicity for the BHS really.  Maybe I should lunge like that in my next exam......


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## fizzer (8 February 2013)

Having a heavy horse ourselves we loved the programme.  Very hard to make an opinion on just a few snaps of him working and training them to harness, however, the barbed wire fencing would concern me.  Great to see these lovely horses getting some TV coverage.


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## Dobiegirl (8 February 2013)

I enjoyed it, it wasnt a factual documentary otherwise most of the general public wouldnt have watched it. The Amish horses were they docked or not, I dont have a great love for the Amish as they are one of the biggest puppy farmers in the US.


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## Patterdale (8 February 2013)

My goodness, what a lot of experts on breaking we have here! 

Anyone actually ever worked with heavy horses? Or broken a horse to drive?

At the end of 8 weeks they were driving quietly and obediently as a pair.  Yes, the guys obviously clueless 

Another here who purposely didn't look on here whilst it was on...!


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## irishdraft (8 February 2013)

I found the programme really interesting, i dont know anything about working heavy horses and initially did think robert Sampson seemed a bit rough and full of himself but it became apparent he was the right man for the job. An earlier poster said he hunted Axel the percheron stallion and I remembered a great photo in horse and hound of robert jumping Axel out hunting.


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## onemorehorse (8 February 2013)

Patterdale said:



			My goodness, what a lot of experts on breaking we have here! 

Anyone actually ever worked with heavy horses? Or broken a horse to drive?
		
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Um, yes shires and yes assisted with a few.  Where I worked we also bred and brought on young shires.


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## EllenJay (8 February 2013)

Norfolk Pie said:



			This.
Personally I thought he came across as ignorant and arrogant - what was his comment early on "I can get a tune out of anything but ...(something to the effect of).... he'll walk all over you if I don't train you"
		
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And what was wrong with that comment.  Horses, (especially clever ones) know exactly what they can get away with, and therefore if the MC is not correctly "trained",  2 big heavy horses would run rings around him.


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## Patchworkpony (8 February 2013)

Norfolk Pie - I totally agree. A really ignorant presentation of training young horses. This is why so many horses are spoilt these days before they have even begun. Of course if it's 'on the telly' it must be the right way to do it. My welsh cob was on the TV years ago on a programme about osteopathy for horses and I hated the way the presenters tried to twist everything - anything to make a programme more lively for the public. I do love MC but I think he took some big chances without realising the potential for an accident. The proper driving world is hot on safety and method - I don't think this 'trainer' would quite cut the mustard.

There is too much ignorance these days because people take short cuts and want instant results. Horses are living creatures that need time to adjust to strange demands from 'alien' beings. I do wonder how that trainer would like to have a load of strange stuff dumped on his back and then be asked to run round in a circle while being shouted at. Horses need time and patience to get the best out of them. So many people forget that a horse NEVER forgets an experience - good or bad!


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## redriverrock (8 February 2013)

Those horses are clearly deeply traumatised and neglected...Im phoning the RSPCA


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## onemorehorse (8 February 2013)

Patchworkpony said:



			Norfolk Pie - I totally agree. A really ignorant presentation of training young horses. This is why so many horses are spoilt these days before they have even begun. Of course if it's 'on the telly' it must be the right way to do it. My welsh cob was on the TV years ago on a programme about osteopathy for horses and I hated the way the presenters tried to twist everything - anything to make a programme more lively for the public. I do love MC but I think he took some big chances without realising the potential for an accident. The proper driving world is hot on safety and method - I don't think this 'trainer' would quite cut the mustard.

There is too much ignorance these days because people take short cuts and want instant results. Horses are living creatures that need time to adjust to strange demands from 'alien' beings. I do wonder how that trainer would like to have a load of strange stuff dumped on his back and then be asked to run round in a circle while being shouted at. Horses need time and patience to get the best out of them. So many people forget that a horse NEVER forgets an experience - good or bad!
		
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This


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## Hot2Trot (8 February 2013)

I enjoyed it apart from it was very "bitty".  Here I am in the States, now i'm in Scotland, now i'm in the States again, now i'm in France.  I said to my husband - he gets around a bit doesnt he!  I think it would have worked better as a series with more focus on each place but i guess they dont have the budget or viewers for that.  Very interesting though.  Even hubby was interested and he's totally non-horsey.

Got my dust buster ready for the boy tomorrow too.


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## Magicmillbrook (8 February 2013)

Loved the program and though RS attitude was marvelous, clearly a man who knows his stuff.

Axel was such a dude, go the Suffolk pair, but what I would realy love is the Comtois.


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## Penny Less (8 February 2013)

I loved the programme.  Perhaps it flicked from item to item so the non horsey watchers dont get too bored.( I notice this happens a lot on American made programmes too ) I did wonder why they used 8 horses to plough the field on the Amish segment though ?  Im sure one could have done it !   The thing that spoiled it for me was the damned adverts


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## Fools Motto (8 February 2013)

Liked the program very much. Didn't didn't find anything wrong with it, just maybe the Armish horses' feet needed a trim, but that isn't the end of the world!


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## weebarney (8 February 2013)

michelleyork said:



			In my opinion those two horses of MC's have had a fair bit of ground work done with them, before they apparently just plonked the harnesses on.  One had already won a lot of prizes as a foal and I am sure you don't just drag them out the field to do that!  They also appeared to have traveled very well in the lorry (and unloaded very calmly) and at one point MC was having a good rub of its back and gave one a pat on the back - surely youngsters without any training wouldn't cope with that??
		
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I would say thats extremely likely, He's not short of a few quid so he's probably got grooms and the horses getting worked on for weeks prior to going away.


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## Magicmillbrook (8 February 2013)

Didn't you love the way RS summed them up at the end.  One will get you out of trouble but the other will get you into it!


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## cambrica (8 February 2013)

Magicmillbrook said:



			Didn't you love the way RS summed them up at the end.  One will get you out of trouble but the other will get you into it!
		
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## AdorableAlice (8 February 2013)

What a lovely programme.  I have just watched it this afternoon, after reading all the comments on the thread.

There is a vast difference between the heavy breeds and the riding horses/TB/warmbloods that some of the posters would be owning/handling and I think some of the ridiculous comments that have been made are based on trying to compare the heavies with riding horses.

Those 2 heavies would have had plenty of handling long before being put to, and the programme obviously edited out the hours of basic work.  Personally I wish I could see the work done before the camera was turned on, because that would have been the really useful and informative bit.  The camera only showed the end result of the true nagsman's work.

All horses should be steady to dogs, especially horses in harness.  I never ever protect my young horses from loose dogs around them with the exception of a nursing foal.  I learnt the hard way after a horse kicked and killed a hound some years ago after being surprised by the hound popping out of the covert directly behind him.

Everyone to their own, but I think I may just have found the man to start my feral carthorse next year.


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## Oberon (8 February 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Eveyrone to their own, but I think I may just have found the man to start my feral carthorse next year.
		
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## AdorableAlice (8 February 2013)

Oberon said:





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Can someone break the news to Ted please and explain to him he will need to remain vertical and awake rather than horizontal and comatose.


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## Spring Feather (8 February 2013)

I didn't see the programme as I'm in another country but it sounds like to me that many on here really aren't that familiar with handling heavy *work horses*.  Work horses aren't the same as hobby type carriage horses, or even cart horses.  Where I live there are a great many people who use work horses to work their farms.  We have quite a few amish and mennonite farms in the area and all the field work is done by horses.  The machinery these horses have to pull are seriously dangerous pieces of kit and there's no way they could have these huge ton hunks of horseflesh being anything other than obedient and bombproof to anything that goes on around them.  Real work horses are so rare to see in the UK so I do understand some of the comments people have made.  Over here they are not rare, they are relatively commonplace on farms in certain areas.  Amish and mennonites are notoriously hard on their horses and they do start them from young.  I don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing per se, it just is what it is and you NEVER hear of any horse related accidents on these farms so they must be doing something right.  This is a rural and pretty horse orientated area and we do hear about regular people having horse accidents often.

One problem that I do see a lot of though, is there are so many mennonite/amish trained/owned horses that go through the auctions over here and many soft hearted people want to 'rescue' them, so they do.  They get these great beasties home and are NOT up to dealing with them, or they pander to them and think 'aw they've had such a rough life, I'll be kind and gentle to them'.  Ye well that is normally where the problems begin.  These horses, like all horses, are very quick to cotton on to these inexperienced new owners and within no time the horse will be walking all over them ... and often their fences, their stables, anything that gets in their way tbh.  Then the horses end up in rescue centres to await the next 'rescue' owner.  It's a bit of a sorry site to see so many of these horses (typically Percherons or Belgian drafts) taking advantage of new owners and ending up on a spiral downwards, getting closer to the meatman with every turn of owner.

That's my 2 cents for what it's worth.


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## Norfolk Pie (8 February 2013)

EllenJay said:



			And what was wrong with that comment.  Horses, (especially clever ones) know exactly what they can get away with, and therefore if the MC is not correctly "trained",  2 big heavy horses would run rings around him.
		
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What's wrong with that? Only that in my opinion it came across as arrogant. IMHO most people who come across as arrogant (and I'm basing my opinion on his statement "I can get a tune out of anything" ) aren't particularly open to learning. He's probably done his way, with success, for a number of years. But he may choose not to learn anything new, such as a greater understanding of the horses development, or learning techniques.  Personally, I don't consider someone who allows a young horse to be unsettled by a dog, on its first attempt on the lunge, to be a particularly great "nagsman". I'd rather have someone who had a little more consideration and feel for a horse - not in a bunny hugging lets all stroke our ponies and feed them carrots kind of way, but just allowing a horse to feel confident.  I'm currently working with a big, flumpy cob who has spent 5 years being told to " get on with it" when in fact his basics were so rushed and poor he has no idea what he's doing with his legs in walk, let alone canter.  He's a good example of the horses that don't cope, and are a common by product from the many arrogant "professionals" who don't actually give a stuff, or ever bother to question if there are better methods available.  There is a horse "complying" with a well known event rider who I'm convinced has severe behavioural problems because of kissing spines ( the horse, not the rider  )but he bashes him harder than I did, so the lucky horse now gets to keep going   instead of being shot, which I feel would have been a great deal kinder. As I said, tired of seeing it


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## Pearlsasinger (8 February 2013)

pansymouse said:



			You need to know some French to communicate effectively with hers because they are started in France which also makes them initially confused when they are asked to work on the "wrong" side of the road!
		
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I have a German-bred Westphalian Draft (Kalt blut) mare, who was imported here aged about 12 (not by me).  She likes to walk in the middle of the road, which always makes me wonder if it's because she was trained to go on the 'wrong' side of the road. She understand English very well though!  I hve no proof but I believe that she hs been used as  broodmare and driven before she came here.  She is very aware of traffic and how to behave on the road. 
The 'sea-horses' looked very much like my mare - beautiful!


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## 1stclassalan (8 February 2013)

Martin Clunes is genuinely besotted with his horses and I could watch him with them all day - but my enjoyment of the programme ends there - rarely have I seen such a display of unconcerned, this-the-way-we-do-things, laissez faire to darn right dangerous stuff trotted out to the general public for chrissakes - it's not as if it was made for limited release for peer review - but bl**dy armchair entertainment!

There were heavy horses being tied to rings with rope that would hold the Queen Mary, then 2 year old were boxed up ( good to see the CCTV ) and taken to a so called expert breaker / trainer / worldly sage who seemed to live amongst the largest gathering of dangers to horses I've ever seen on telly.

I'm sorry for all the people above who think he is a cross between Jesus of Nazareth and Mother Teresa and will try to turn my words against me but let me remind them that one does not need to be carpenter and joiner to know whether a table and chairs is fit for the purpose!

You do NOT harness up a youngster to a stallion without a lot more preparation - then when driving a STALLION through a god awful untidy yard - you don't have a mare tied up 
in paddling range! Mein Gott! There was almost a broken leg there!!!  

I'm not going to list anymore because everyone saw them plain as day - I find it utterly gobsmacking that it was produced like this and not edited better - either that or they must be PROUD of it!

In my younger days, I saw horses literally broken ( just like Monty Roberts is supposed to have done, bagging and roping) and despite being told that it was the best way for all concerned - I knew damn well it wasn't.


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## devonlass (8 February 2013)

littlemisslauren said:



			I'm suprised this hasn't been mentioned but I was upset with the state of the Amish horses feet  Clearly well valued horses but their feet needed attention.
		
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Have to say if there was one thing i would have said in a negative light it would have been this issue.None of them had great feet,most were ok but a couple were pretty appalling

Having said that i am a barefoot person so inclined to nit pick and get evangelical over feet

Also hard to tell from a brief clip on the tv,maybe there was a reason or they didn't look that bad in the flesh so to speak.


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## horsesatemymoney (8 February 2013)

Before I get shot down, this is my opinion, I'm not saying I'm an expert, know better than anybody else, or am picking faults because it's fun. In my opinion, I would not send my horse to the trainer because I didn't like his attitude- that's not to say it doesn't work, it's to say I, personally, didn't like how he was portrayed. I can only base my judgement on what I saw, but I felt it was too quick- again, for what I would want for my horse- not saying it's wrong, but it's not for me. I thought running into the mare, whilst wearing no hat and having MC driving who was inexperienced, was just taking unnecessary risks- similarily, taking the young horse through the water straight away is not what I would want done with mine. I think each horse is different and in my opnion, my sensitive horse wouldn't cope with such an approach-yes, the horses responded, nothing went wrong and there's clearly no cruelty involved, it's just not what I would want for mine.


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## Kikke (8 February 2013)

My OH owns a "sea horse "  aka turnip van der schaakhoeve our lovely Belgian draft.
He is great, gentle sweet really really wants to work and a bit daft 
He is only 5 but leans very quickly and just wants to please.
Funny to say as my hubby started ground work to start him doing field work over the next year and even though he has never done anything like that he knows what to do straight away. My OH says it's like he knows what he was "made" for







I must admit I do not see what all the fuss is about. But I think it was great to see the heavies portrait!!


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## tallyho! (8 February 2013)

Where's that horses tail?


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## Patchworkpony (8 February 2013)

1stclassalan and horsesatemymoney I couldn't have put it better myself. Thank goodness there are actually people on this forum who can recognise an arrogant idiot when they see one - and I'm not referring to MC! Driving is probably the most dangerous horse activity there is since once a harness horse bolts with there is nothing you can do (think of that poor woman who was killed at an event as a result of total stupidity - the bridle was removed while the horse was still hitched). The most important part of driving is mutual trust and steady obedience so how can MC (without a hat) be encouraged by that 'show off' to drive young barely broken horses when, as a rank novice, he wouldn't have a clue what to do in an emergency.


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## Kikke (8 February 2013)

tallyho! said:



			Where's that horses tail?
		
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Typical for Belgian drafts. Any Belgian draft going to a grading in Belgium and holland will have a docked tail. 
These days it is not allowed in those countries to have tails docked unless there is a medical reason........ Well 95% of the horses come with a medical reason. 
Agree with it or not it's a tradition that has not been broken yet.
We got him this way, must admit being dutch I am used to seeing them like this but would have preferred a tail.


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## Spring Feather (8 February 2013)

Kikke said:



			Typical for Belgian drafts. Any Belgian draft going to a grading in Belgium and holland will have a docked tail. 
These days it is not allowed in those countries to have tails docked unless there is a medical reason........ Well 95% of the horses come with a medical reason. 
Agree with it or not it's a tradition that has not been broken yet.
We got him this way, must admit being dutch I am used to seeing them like this but would have preferred a tail.
		
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It's still legal in my country.  I'm used to seeing them docked too.


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## fburton (8 February 2013)

I didn't like "It is a case of dominance, 'cause it's the only thing they understand." 

Winced at the barbed wire, and the lackadaisical way the stallion was allowed to get near to the mare.

However, I enjoyed the programme overall.


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## Amymay (8 February 2013)

What a wonderful programme. Its wonderful to see a person relatively new to horses having such a natural affinity with them, and to be so obviously in love his boys.

I actually found it really moving.


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## Amymay (8 February 2013)

And for those banging on about feet,  H&S, etc. Come on. Some people's lives are far removed from ours. Most of us know how to 'play' horses  - but that's about it.  These people 'do' horses for a living,  and I just love the arm chair critics on here thinking they know better. ........


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## Amymay (8 February 2013)

Kikke,  such a beaitiful horse!


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## tallyho! (8 February 2013)

I enjoyed the show. 

Is it bad I wished for the little dog to be squashed?


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## TrasaM (8 February 2013)

tallyho! said:



			I enjoyed the show. 

Is it bad I wished for the little dog to be squashed?
		
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Oh a like minded person at last !   can't stand dogs worrying animals and barking incessantly.


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## Kikke (8 February 2013)

amymay said:



			Kikke,  such a beaitiful horse!
		
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Ahhh thanks we think so


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## tallyho! (8 February 2013)

TrasaM said:



			Oh a like minded person at last !   can't stand dogs worrying animals and barking incessantly.
		
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Yes! Absolutely...


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## Amymay (8 February 2013)

And those going on about the dog - ever wondered why so many of you go into meltdown if a dog so much as looks at your horse? ? 

Because you expect it to be a problem. And don't just tell your horse to 'get on with it'.


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## indie999 (8 February 2013)

I really liked the show and I think its great that the trainers are proper horse people where even yakky jacky russell was accepted as normal. Amazed it didnt get stepped on but I liked it that because they werent bothered that the horses were fine too. Instead of fluffy training its good training and the horses are expected to work. 

Only irritating is Martin you laugh all the time and I mean all the time that even the horses stop to listen and are puzzled. But good luck he seems to have plenty of money and time to enjoy his much loved horses. I think it was a good snap shot of what jobs horses do in other places. Brilliant programme. Martin has tried hard to learn and he clearly loves the animals.


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## SO1 (8 February 2013)

I did enjoy the program, the horses were beautiful and looked well cared for. MC was very fond of his horses which was nice to see though I don't think he is a natural horseman. However the moment when the stallion ran into the mare was scary and could have ended up in a nasty accident. 

I thought the training methods were not very subtle but considering the horses were going to be going back to MC who is a novice driver they need to be very tolerant and maybe used to a less subtle way of being handled for their own benefit. MC is President of the BHS and I sure he would have had advice from them about who to go to for the training of the horses and also it would look really bad if he associated with someone who was not safe or did not treat the horses well.


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## tallyho! (8 February 2013)

amymay said:



			And those going on about the dog - ever wondered why so many of you go into meltdown if a dog so much as looks at your horse? ? 

Because you expect it to be a problem. And don't just tell your horse to 'get on with it'.
		
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I don't go into meltdown amymay, I just don't like the yappy little things


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## TrasaM (8 February 2013)

amymay said:



			Because you expect it to be a problem. And don't just tell your horse to 'get on with it'.
		
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Oh but I do, and I give him full permission to kick if he feels inclined to


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## Fii (8 February 2013)

Patchworkpony said:



			Norfolk Pie - I totally agree. A really ignorant presentation of training young horses. This is why so many horses are spoilt these days before they have even begun. Of course if it's 'on the telly' it must be the right way to do it. My welsh cob was on the TV years ago on a programme about osteopathy for horses and I hated the way the presenters tried to twist everything - anything to make a programme more lively for the public. I do love MC but I think he took some big chances without realising the potential for an accident. The proper driving world is hot on safety and method - I don't think this 'trainer' would quite cut the mustard.

There is too much ignorance these days because people take short cuts and want instant results. Horses are living creatures that need time to adjust to strange demands from 'alien' beings. I do wonder how that trainer would like to have a load of strange stuff dumped on his back and then be asked to run round in a circle while being shouted at. Horses need time and patience to get the best out of them. So many people forget that a horse NEVER forgets an experience - good or bad!
		
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"The proper driving world"  LMAO  and what might that be? The chap comes from generations of farmers and drivers!


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## ribbons (8 February 2013)

Well said amymay. There is a world of difference between horse people and people who keep horses.
There are so many good horses ruined these days. Not by people like Robert Samson but by the fluffy brigade that insist on treating a horse like a big dog, then wonder why it walks all over them and ends up putting itself and people around it in danger. If it has no confident leadership it starts to make it's own decisions, and boy when that happens you really are in trouble.
I've read some rubbish on this forum but this thread really takes the prize for idiots talking tosh.
No wonder there are so many confused, difficult horses with behaviour problems ending up with the meatman. Anything trained by people like Robert will always have a useful life and be in demand. 
I don't know whether to laugh at this nonsense being spouted or cry at the fate of the poor horses in the hands of those who are so sure that fluffing and fussing is the right way and 20 minutes pottering round the school is work.


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## Oberon (8 February 2013)

I can't imagine Mr Samson feeding his horses into laminitis because, "They won't eat it unless it's got molasses in it...."


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## appaloosacaz (8 February 2013)

Brilliant program, and so nice to see someone who has the guts to say he needs help, unlike some of the people sometimes seen on H&H who are obviously complete experts!


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## TheoryX1 (8 February 2013)

I enjoyed it - guys take it for what it is - entertainment.  I cannot comment on the methods used as know nothing about breaking heavy working horses, but his horses looked happy and well cared for.  I will admit to being completely smitten by that stallion, Axel, and he did live up to his name, the dirty little beggar.  Also, I would love to go riding in the sea on those huge horses, but my short legs wouldnt get across those backs.

It was a very nice entertaining programme and I have to admit I am now a Clydesdale lover, so lets just leave it like that.


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## 1stclassalan (8 February 2013)

Fii said:



			The chap comes from generations of farmers and drivers!
		
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There were hundreds of generations of folk who thought the sun went around the earth - I don't think they were right - do you? How does your evidential factoid look now?

This is not to say they or you are ignorant - just misguided. Anyone, given a reasonable amount of confidence, can get a basically timid animal such as a horse and bully it, frighten it and wear it down until it does what you want - if you get one that still won't you could always throw you hands in the air and say "bl**dy thing won't listen" and shoot it. ( I know of cases.)

When I find I make myself understand no matter how loud I shout - I always consider that I might be using the WRONG LANGUAGE!


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## Norfolk Pie (8 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			There are so many good horses ruined these days. Not by people like Robert Samson but by the fluffy brigade that insist on treating a horse like a big dog, then wonder why it walks all over them and ends up putting itself and people around it in danger. If it has no confident leadership it starts to make it's own decisions, and boy when that happens you really are in trouble.
I've read some rubbish on this forum but this thread really takes the prize for idiots talking tosh.
No wonder there are so many confused, difficult horses with behaviour problems ending up with the meatman. Anything trained by people like Robert will always have a useful life and be in demand. 
I don't know whether to laugh at this nonsense being spouted or cry at the fate of the poor horses in the hands of those who are so sure that fluffing and fussing is the right way and 20 minutes pottering round the school is work.
		
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I can list you...ooh I don't know, 20, straight off the top of my head, from professionals who have been totally screwed up by their "good methods" 

The being backed 4yo's tied down in side reins in their stables til their mouths bleed? Seen that more times than I care to remember. I didn't like I when I was 16 - now I question people just how it's developing muscle tone - and yet the "respected trainer" can never actually tell me....
The novice event horses which won't come out the start box because they've been over faced?
The 1.30 SJ that won't go in the ring without a lunge whip behind it?
The pony club pony kept on a Pro's yard that "Jumps anything" but is so tight and tense and inverted I should think kissing spines beckon in the next 6 months
The show horse that was quite literally pinned against a wall by 4 people in order that they could clip it?
Great training techniques at work there.

A someone said earlier, please do not assume, just because some people observe a horse and give it consideration that we are all the idiotic owners who cause problems. Yes, of-course there are some of them, far too many in fact. But you know what - there's just as many problems caused by the "sort it out" brigade.  And have a look at where all the "novice numpties" buy those horses. The pros don't mind selling to them, do they, or rushing a horse through the grades to get a nice price tag.

Here's an idea - lets look at the first proper horseman - Xenophon maybe? Can't get much more traditional hormanship than that.  Now where is that bit about "make it get on with it......"


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## AdorableAlice (8 February 2013)

amymay said:



			And for those banging on about feet,  H&S, etc. Come on. Some people's lives are far removed from ours. Most of us know how to 'play' horses  - but that's about it.  These people 'do' horses for a living,  and I just love the arm chair critics on here thinking they know better. ........
		
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In a nutshell...   and can someone explain to me why so many of the posters are adamant that the horses were harnessed, lunged, put to and driven on the same day.  Some bright spark commented that the trainer was wearing the same clothes so it must have been the same day !  I wear my yard clothes day after day until they stand up by themselves and I smell like a skunk.

The programme was edited and anyone of you that think those horses were rushed, knocked about or frightened are way off the mark.  Those horses had weeks of handling before they travelled to Hampshire to prepare them for the breaking to harness.  They were broken by a man with decades of experience with heavy horses and now the horses are home, they will be continuing their education in the hands of experts.  Martin Clunes has the means, the want and the facilities to ensure those horses are kept and worked properly.

The programme was just a pleasant, easy to watch hour of TV that was bound to attract critical comments from some horse lovers, just the same as parelli/natural horsemanship/clinton anderson programmes attract critical reviews.

It is wonderful there are still horsemen breeding, breaking and working our native heavy horses.  No doubt some people on here think they could do it better, maybe they could, and everyone is entitled to a view, but I do wonder how many of you have actually had anything to do with a pure or half breed heavy horse.  I can assure you if you frighten or mis-handle one it will not go round you on as it leaves your company, they are not 'my little pony'.


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## Fii (8 February 2013)

1stclassalan said:



			There were hundreds of generations of folk who thought the sun went around the earth - I don't think they were right - do you? How does your evidential factoid look now?

This is not to say they or you are ignorant - just misguided. Anyone, given a reasonable amount of confidence, can get a basically timid animal such as a horse and bully it, frighten it and wear it down until it does what you want - if you get one that still won't you could always throw you hands in the air and say "bl**dy thing won't listen" and shoot it. ( I know of cases.)

When I find I make myself understand no matter how loud I shout - I always consider that I might be using the WRONG LANGUAGE!
		
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I think you maybe right, you are probably using the wrong language, i have never read a word that you have typed that i understood!
 You fill your posts with flowery spiel i suspect to confuse the reader , to the point that most of the time i think,  Meh, i cant be bothered to untangle  it all!
 My factoid as you put it, looks the same as when i wrote it, the truth, not misguided at all!


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## ribbons (8 February 2013)

Norfolk pie, you are talking the other end of the scale. Those sort of trainers are certainly not horse people. Just bullies. 
Robert Samson has total respect for his horses and expects it, and gets it from them.
He has no need to tie a horse down until it's mouth bleeds. His methods are firm and fair.
Arguments like you have presented have no relevance whatsoever to correct training, and would be as abhorrent to him as they are to us.


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## ribbons (8 February 2013)

Fii, ha ha ha. You have just summed up exactly what I think about 1stclass something or others posts. 
Brilliant description. Still chuckling.


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## horsesatemymoney (8 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			I've read some rubbish on this forum but this thread really takes the prize for idiots talking tosh.
No wonder there are so many confused, difficult horses with behaviour problems ending up with the meatman. Anything trained by people like Robert will always have a useful life and be in demand. 
I don't know whether to laugh at this nonsense being spouted or cry at the fate of the poor horses in the hands of those who are so sure that fluffing and fussing is the right way and 20 minutes pottering round the school is work.
		
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I'm probably one of those 'idiots' you so eloquently refer to (rea idiot: somebody with a different opinion to you). 

For what it's worth, in my opinion  I don't 'fluff and fuss' or spend 20 minutes 'pottering'- my point is really the safety issues. What if that dog had been kicked to death? Basic commonsense- dog yapping, get it on a lead- horse can still get accustomed to it, but it's not going to kill a dog by standing on it- it's basic safety. Horse meets dog out hacking, off lead, that's unavoidable- having one running round a horse being lunged is preventable. 

I didn't say his methods didn't work,just that it's not how I would have done them- basic safety needs to be respected, whoever you are, no matter how many horses you've applied the method to, and it's worked for, there's always the chance something can go wrong. Why up the chances by not wearing a hat, or tying a mare up, or letting MC drive in that context? 

That's my point- not an idiot talking 'tosh,' or fluffy-bunny don't shout at the horsey, just that it's not safe. For that reason, and the seeming speed it's done, as we were shown, then for me, it isn't what I'd choose. That doesn't make me an idiot, just somebody on a forum with a different opinion to you- no need to be rude about it and dismiss people as 'idiots' and assume that our horses are 'suffering.'


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## Norfolk Pie (8 February 2013)

In that case, fair enough. But I'm afraid I thought he came across exactly as one of those bullies. I can see no need to hang off a horses mouth while lunging in the middle of a field with something chasing at its heels, or to shout and holla loudly. I thought the incident with the stallion and mare on the yard - idiotic and unprofessional - if that had been one of the novice numpties, wouldnt everyone  have been saying how ridiculous they were? In fairness, although I didn't particularly like the hitching to the stallon and go through the river on its first drive (as portrayed) I agree he was brilliantly positive and quick to praise  see, I can be nice, I'm just fed up of this attitude of anyone who gets paid must know what they're doing 

(I don't mean that bit about being quick to praise to sound as patronising as it probably does either  )


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## hackneylass2 (8 February 2013)

Interesting programme, MC is well suited for horsey progs and I would like to see a follow up with more working breeds abroad doing different jobs..Im sure there's lots of interesting TV there. Id love to see some more pretty obscure-to us in the UK at least- heavy breeds.

My one sharp intake of breath came with the shot of the barbed wire...I learned from a pretty rough and ready nagsman and one of his mantras was Theres only one thing worse than barbed wire and thats slack barbed wire. Mind you another one of his gems was -   There should be a killing day one day a week for women.  He wasnt exactly PC


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## Superhot (8 February 2013)

Thank you to MC and team for a really interesting and charming programme.  More please!!!!


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## Amymay (8 February 2013)

But the point is, horseatemymoney, that dogs aren't always on a lead. Nor do they need to be. That dog wasn't going to get kicked,  let alone killed. ..


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## Django Pony (8 February 2013)

Just watched it on ITV Player, loved it! Here's the link if anyone missed it: https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/martin-clunes-heavy-horsepower/series-1/episode-1-martin-clunes-heavy-horsepower


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## horsesatemymoney (8 February 2013)

amymay said:



			But the point is, horseatemymoney, that dogs aren't always on a lead. Nor do they need to be. That dog wasn't going to get kicked,  let alone killed. ..
		
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Exactly, they're not always on leads- but that's beyond your control. If you're out hacking, and a dog runs out and gets kicked, or stood on, by your horse then  it's an accident. You can do what you can to get your horse used to it, at home, but where the horse can't do any damage to the dog. It looked to me like it was running near the horse's legs, a young horse doing something quite new- what's to say it might not accidentally stand on the dog? It just doesn't give a good example- the experienced man might be ok to control a young heavy horse with a dog round its legs, but what about other people who can't, but let their dogs round horse's legs?

How many people (on here too) complain about dogs at big events like Badminton barking, getting loose and chasing horses? Why is this any different? I just saw it as adding another issue that didn't need to be there. Again, my opinion, it's just something that I don't like to see.


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## Rockchick_uk (8 February 2013)

Would just like to say....

Both Ronnie and Bruce have now been backed to ride by the guys at Harbridge Stud and both are being ridden away and worked together as a driving pair.

The training was done professionally and a huge amount of work was done off camera ie road work in the cart etc etc, Martin Clunes was also given many lessons on how to drive etc etc during their training with experienced driving horses and not so experienced.

Also with regards to the JRT, the horses had blinkers on so it wouldnt of mattered if they were being chased by a elephant the horse would not of noticed as the dog didnt actually bit the horse it was just running behind it.

If anyone is interested in seeing more videos of Ronnie, Bruce or Axl let me know and i will post them


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## Spring Feather (8 February 2013)

For anyone not in the UK here's the international link http://brittv.co.uk/play.php?t=41828


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## Amymay (8 February 2013)

It may be beyond my control horseatemymoney.  But my horses aren't bothered,  because I'm not.


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## Amymay (8 February 2013)

Thanks rockchick. Please don't post vids without permission.


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## indie999 (8 February 2013)

I think you have to admire Martin for putting himself forward to make this programme in the first place and I prefer him to Noel Edmunds re the horse BHS etc. Good luck to him he is raising the horse profile as a useful intelligent working animal by making this programme.

The lions den of H&H forum or sorry Tack Room! I bet he is still laughing.


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## Rockchick_uk (8 February 2013)

I can obtain permission from The Sampsons direct if people did want to see them


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## Amymay (8 February 2013)

You'll need MC's permission to to post vids of his horses.


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## horsesatemymoney (8 February 2013)

amymay said:



			It may be beyond my control horseatemymoney.  But my horses aren't bothered,  because I'm not.
		
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Ok, they might not spook (like the one on TV didn't)- but what if it had been trodden on, that's an accident that could have been avoided? I just don't see why they took the risk of all manner of potential injury/accident, when they didn't need to- just seems to be making something potentially dangerous more risky.


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## horsesatemymoney (8 February 2013)

indie999 said:



			I think you have to admire Martin for putting himself forward to make this programme in the first place and I prefer him to Noel Edmunds re the horse BHS etc. Good luck to him he is raising the horse profile as a useful intelligent working animal by making this programme.
		
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He is fab- did like Noel too though- you can really see MC's love for his horses, he seems like a really nice guy.


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## melbiswas (8 February 2013)

Interesting insight from SpringFeather re Amish horses.

Loved most of this programme but I thought The Amish lad bridled the mare roughly, some of the feet looked odd ( wondered if the more knowledgeable folks on here would comment) and that they didn't appear over- enthusiastic about their breed and that MC himself wasn't as relaxed there as he was with the others he visited. I thought perhaps this was simply cultural differences but perhaps he wasn't taken with their approach to their horses either??


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## Fii (8 February 2013)

Some heavy breeders are importing horses from the Amish to help with the breed lines here, the Suffolk punch being one that needs help as they are so rare and have been closely bred!


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## Spring Feather (8 February 2013)

Well I've just watched it and I have to say what a fabulous programme it was!!  I enjoyed it immensely 

The ONLY criticism I have is that woah your adverts go on forever!!


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## Doncella (8 February 2013)

Did anyone notice the bit where he started off in the lorry, that in the foreground, right up against the camera, was a huge head of seeded ragwort?


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## PonyFeet10 (8 February 2013)

I noticed Doncella, was quite shocked as it seems as though they had tried to blend it in as scenery.. 

Loved the program though, always do if it involves horses


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## Amymay (8 February 2013)

WTF


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## littleladylou (9 February 2013)

You put this so much more politely than I would have. 



AdorableAlice said:



			In a nutshell...   and can someone explain to me why so many of the posters are adamant that the horses were harnessed, lunged, put to and driven on the same day.  Some bright spark commented that the trainer was wearing the same clothes so it must have been the same day !  I wear my yard clothes day after day until they stand up by themselves and I smell like a skunk.

The programme was edited and anyone of you that think those horses were rushed, knocked about or frightened are way off the mark.  Those horses had weeks of handling before they travelled to Hampshire to prepare them for the breaking to harness.  They were broken by a man with decades of experience with heavy horses and now the horses are home, they will be continuing their education in the hands of experts.  Martin Clunes has the means, the want and the facilities to ensure those horses are kept and worked properly.

The programme was just a pleasant, easy to watch hour of TV that was bound to attract critical comments from some horse lovers, just the same as parelli/natural horsemanship/clinton anderson programmes attract critical reviews.

It is wonderful there are still horsemen breeding, breaking and working our native heavy horses.  No doubt some people on here think they could do it better, maybe they could, and everyone is entitled to a view, but I do wonder how many of you have actually had anything to do with a pure or half breed heavy horse.  I can assure you if you frighten or mis-handle one it will not go round you on as it leaves your company, they are not 'my little pony'.
		
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## DragonSlayer (9 February 2013)

I don't believe it, we have a comment about ragwort.....quick, arrest the man!!!


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## millikins (9 February 2013)

I love the fact that MC, despite not being short of a bob or two drives an 02 reg lorry.
I was worried about his hands, I was taught NEVER hold the reins like that, the horse can easily pull them through, either drive "coachman" or if you can't master that, hold them as though riding, any thoughts?
I watched those Suffolks at an indoor driving trial, they didn't leave many cones intact but incredible driving.


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## Spring Feather (9 February 2013)

Millikins said:



			I was worried about his hands, I was taught NEVER hold the reins like that, the horse can easily pull them through, either drive "coachman" or if you can't master that, hold them as though riding, any thoughts?
		
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I haven't driven for many many years but I must have been taught at least 4 different ways of holding the reins depending on which horses I was driving, how many of them I had in hand and what type of driving I was doing.


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## jellybeanz (9 February 2013)

I enjoyed the programme immensely! I thought it was edited well to the point my non-horsey OH also enjoyed it too  

Dont really get the critisim against the trainer, as unless you worked on the show you have no idea how it was edited, anyone consider the trainer may have worked with the 2 horses before the show?


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## hairycob (9 February 2013)

Don't yopu love HHO. The horses were there was it 6 or 8 weeks, I can't remember which. We must have seen 10-15 mins of that time on screen & that's including the trip there! But still some can know fully what the guy is like.
As for worrying about them only being 2. I know someone who is the habit of buying shire weanlings. By the time they are 2 she & her OH can't handle them so they get sold to someone who can. They get put to work almost straight away after some initial ground manners work & are happy as larry with something to occupy their brains. If they were left until 4 they would probably end up in a ready meal. She's done this 4 times now & still doesn't learn.


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## tallyho! (9 February 2013)

OMG!!!! Ragwort!!!!

Quick call WHW!

Or is it the council?

Or is it defra?

Or wait, it's ok, calm down... It's been posted on HHO. Someone will surely drive over and pull the offending weed to save the UK.

Phew.


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## elbee (9 February 2013)

Did anyone else notice that in one of the scenes at Anheuser-Busch, the picture was back to front ? My OH noticed that the writing on the side of the wagon was reversed and the dalmation dog was sitting on Martin Clunes' right (whereas in the final shot he's on his left ?


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## JFTDWS (9 February 2013)

I haven't seen the programme yet (rubbish internet!) but I do have a reasonable idea of how the Sampsons train their horses, and I have to say I think some of the criticism on this thread is absurd.  I would trust RS with one of my horses and am fully aware of the quality horses he produces - these aren't little riding horses, they're seriously big, strong animals and I wouldn't want to leave one till it was fully mature and strong to start it.  Mind you, I also think getting horses used to loose dogs is very important, and am more to have them nipping around my youngsters feet!


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## jinglejoys (9 February 2013)

Wasn't concerned about the horse more concerned about the safety of the dog


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## freckles22uk (9 February 2013)

I watched it and really enjoyed it, was lovely to see the heavy horses for a change, and actually nice to see a horse program on 'normal' tv..

The stallion and the mare, reminded me of mine, he often goes to the fence and has a squeal/screech (was just the same noise) often the mares strike out with a front leg, and I only have to yell, and they all go back to doing what they were doing before (eating normally)  and I didnt see the problem hitching Martins horses up with him either, he knew his job and got on with it..  

thought the JR was a pain, but my dog stands and barks at mine, and has been known to nip the heels (typical sheltie) but she does get sent out the paddock, daughter was riding her horse the other day, and a dog came shooting over snapping at his heels, horse stood good as gold, and I would rather that happen, rather than the horse bolt and my daughter get hurt 

wished we got more programs like it, fingers crossed they make some more...


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## Pearlsasinger (9 February 2013)

amymay said:



			And for those banging on about feet,  H&S, etc. Come on. Some people's lives are far removed from ours. Most of us know how to 'play' horses  - but that's about it.  These people 'do' horses for a living,  and I just love the arm chair critics on here thinking they know better. ........
		
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ribbons said:



			Well said amymay. There is a world of difference between horse people and people who keep horses.
There are so many good horses ruined these days. Not by people like Robert Samson but by the fluffy brigade that insist on treating a horse like a big dog, then wonder why it walks all over them and ends up putting itself and people around it in danger. If it has no confident leadership it starts to make it's own decisions, and boy when that happens you really are in trouble.
I've read some rubbish on this forum but this thread really takes the prize for idiots talking tosh.
No wonder there are so many confused, difficult horses with behaviour problems ending up with the meatman. Anything trained by people like Robert will always have a useful life and be in demand. 
I don't know whether to laugh at this nonsense being spouted or cry at the fate of the poor horses in the hands of those who are so sure that fluffing and fussing is the right way and 20 minutes pottering round the school is work.
		
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I can't be doing with MC and his inane giggling but did enjoy the programme but then I appreciate 'proper horsepeople' those whose livlihoods depend on horses, who respect horses for what they are, rather than expecting them to be similar to fluffy bicycles, and expect every horse they meet to respect them.  Over the years, I've learned a great deal from such nagsmen (and women).




jinglejoys said:



			Wasn't concerned about the horse more concerned about the safety of the dog
		
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We had a couple of JRT pups which got into the field with our Clydie mare, who was broken to ride and drive, and from her age at the time, I expect was broken by an old nagsman, long before the modern era of the hobby-horse.  The pups rushed up to the mare round her feet, she lifted one leg and gently brushed them both with it.  From the yelping, you'd have thought she'd half-killed them, although were actually fine.  Those pups never went anywhere near a horse's legs again, in all the many years we hd them.  What a good job the mare had learned that dogs were unlikely to harm her.


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## Beausmate (9 February 2013)

Good programme.  Would have liked to see some Shires though, maybe a couple more Suffolks (bit biased, used to own a cross and would love a pure-bred), maybe a dray or two?  That is what most people see with regard to heavy horses, especially in urban areas.  The Budweiser Clydes were magnificent, shame about the tails though.  Think my favourite from the programme was the Comtois.  

As for the breaking in?  How do you show six weeks work in about ten minutes?


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## fburton (9 February 2013)

amymay said:



			But the point is, horseatemymoney, that dogs aren't always on a lead. Nor do they need to be. That dog wasn't going to get kicked,  let alone killed. ..
		
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How can you tell whether one dog definitely isn't going to get killed or injured while another might? I was taking a pony stallion for a walk in the estate of the vet school one day and a dog (that should have been on a lead, because there are signs up saying that) came racing towards him from behind. In the blink of an eye, the pony double-barrelled and the dog went flying through the air, yelping. Fortunately, the dog wasn't seriously injured, but it _could_ have been.


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## Montyforever (9 February 2013)

Does make me laugh! Horses of that size and build will be incredibly dangerous and impossible to work with if they're left until 4/5 years old! They need to have manners and know what is expected of them when they are that size and need to be 100% safe even if that means they have to get used to a JR chasing them. 

Say if mc's clysdale had never come across a dog before and mc was driving it along a road and a dog jumped out and started chasing the horse, the horse might bolt and seriously injure or even kill itself, mc and possibly other people too. 

You can't take chances with any horse that size especially if they are driven!!!!


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## fburton (9 February 2013)

Rockchick_uk said:



			If anyone is interested in seeing more videos of Ronnie, Bruce or Axl let me know and i will post them 

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Yes, please! Especially Axl.


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## fburton (9 February 2013)

Montyforever said:



			Say if mc's clysdale had never come across a dog before and mc was driving it along a road and a dog jumped out and started chasing the horse, the horse might bolt and seriously injure or even kill itself, mc and possibly other people too.
		
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I think that's a good point. I wonder if the dog was allowed to snap at the horses' heels when they _weren't_ wearing blinkers. 




			You can't take chances with any horse that size especially if they are driven!!!!
		
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Absolutely not. I remember one hair-raising incident where I was in a pony trap going up the lane next to a field with mares and he decided he wanted to go and 'talk' to them and was nearly climbing the dry stone wall. Fortunately, the skill and strength of the person driving allowed a potentially horrendous accident to be averted.


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## 1stclassalan (9 February 2013)

Montyforever said:



			Does make me laugh! Horses of that size and build will be incredibly dangerous and impossible to work with if they're left until 4/5 years old! They need to have manners and know what is expected of them when they are that size and need to be 100% safe even if that means they have to get used to a JR chasing them. 

Say if mc's clysdale had never come across a dog before and mc was driving it along a road and a dog jumped out and started chasing the horse, the horse might bolt and seriously injure or even kill itself, mc and possibly other people too. 

You can't take chances with any horse that size especially if they are driven!!!!
		
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Yes - but one thing at a time. Though there may be those who cast doubts here - I reckon that I'm a sort of reasonably inteligent human, in that you can tell me something is likely to happen and I'll have a pretty good appreciation of what you're talking about but amazingly despite the army knowing this - they did NOT take me up to 12,000ft and throw me out of an aeroplane on the day I joined. There's a build up.

I can't be sure of what others propose to do as their youngsters grow but I certainly wouldn't be leaving them in a field till four or five unhandled - there's a lot of preparatory work that could be done - including getting used to dogs but not all at the same time.

Your use of the word "manners" fills me with dread as I've had experience of people who used it before - how big are your sticks?


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## Spring Feather (9 February 2013)

1stclassalan said:



			Your use of the word "manners" fills me with dread as I've had experience of people who used it before - how big are your sticks?
		
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When your children were small did they have good manners?  Now they are grown up do they have good manners?  How big is YOUR stick?  What a ridiculous thing to say Alan


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## BWa (9 February 2013)

My jrt once tried to hump my horse's back leg. He just picked up his leg and shook off the dog gently! At some point in his life he learnt that Jrts are just a mild irritant.


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## Pale Rider (9 February 2013)

Well, finally got to see this programme.

Really enjoyed it, well Martin Clunes is exceptional. I thought his trainer hammed it up a bit, but it was entertaining.


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## tallyho! (9 February 2013)

Lol!! How big is your stick 1st class Alan?


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## Supertrooper (10 February 2013)

I really enjoyed it, I totally agree that horses that size need to learn things at an early age before they become too big and strong. 

I have to agree that some bits made me cringe, with the dog and then with the stallion but that's life. Things arn't always done well and the guy was very good with them I thought. 

My favourite bit was the Budweiser cyldedales, gorgeous!


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## Shysmum (10 February 2013)

I really enjoyed this, not knowing much about the heavies. My only disappointment (and I know it's stupid) is that there was no sign of the gorgeous Chester around 

Loved the admission of the driving ban too..


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## Montyforever (10 February 2013)

1stclassalan - the only "stick" I own is a lunge whip which I don't even need to use as my mare goes off voice commands when lunging, something she's been taught to do (without me ever hitting her I'll add!)  My mare has also gone from barely handled and bargey to perfect to lead without me EVER hitting her. I never mentioned using a whip in my post, and I would only ever use one in a situation where the horse was acting very dangerously to itself or me. 

I love how you assume I beat horses because I like them to have manners, I use positive reinforcement not negative.


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## Montyforever (10 February 2013)

Oh and having had my shoulder pulled out of the joint by a cob youngster with no manners who isn't even half the the size of some of those heavy horses, manners are something I feel strongly about!


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## _GG_ (10 February 2013)

I have to admit that this thread has given me a bit of a chuckle. 

I won't call anyone an idiot or use any such derogatory terms, but, seriously..I am amazed at the amount of opinions being thrown around here.

To form any kind of opinion on any programme that had been edited is almost a complete waste of energy and time at the keyboard. None of us on here as far as I have read in this thread were involved in the making of this programme...I mean, directly involved in this programme. 

You can have theories about how it was made, but forming opinions on unknown variables is nothing more than wasteful. We simply don't know what else was done previously.

Is it good to question? Yes....but to judge harshly without facts is just a little bit silly.

I enjoyed the programme for what it was and I have also learnt over the years that the approach of judgement and condemnation is never ever good for the animals you care about. Much better to be open and supportive in trying to teach a better way where you might help those animals, than offend the owners and lose a chance to make a difference.

Good on MC for highlighting such wonderful breeds and opening our eyes the world around us.

I would also say, somebody mentioned the Amish seemed a little less welcoming....well, they are. They are wonderful people, but are extremely private and I was amazed that they allowed the filming in the first place, so it probably was all a bit tense.


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## Mariposa (10 February 2013)

Pale Rider said:



			Really enjoyed it, well Martin Clunes is exceptional. I thought his trainer hammed it up a bit, but it was entertaining.
		
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I agree! Just watched this, it was great entertainment and lovely to see a horsey programme on prime time TV for once!


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## tallyho! (10 February 2013)

Yes, bring on more horsey programmes for the HHO experts to dissect!


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## horsesatemymoney (10 February 2013)

_GG_ said:



			I would also say, somebody mentioned the Amish seemed a little less welcoming....well, they are. They are wonderful people, but are extremely private and I was amazed that they allowed the filming in the first place, so it probably was all a bit tense.
		
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That said, I thought they were quite welcoming, considering they're private generally.


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## _GG_ (10 February 2013)

horsesatemymoney said:



			That said, I thought they were quite welcoming, considering they're private generally.
		
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Me too...lovely to get an insight into their lives


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## horsesatemymoney (10 February 2013)

_GG_ said:



			Me too...lovely to get an insight into their lives 

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I find their lifestyle fascinating- I loved how they were maintaining that lifestyel, but from their yard you could see a massive highway- like the meeting of old and new  Good to see them filmed in light of their horse skills, rather than studied as a almost freak show, like they usually are


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## _GG_ (10 February 2013)

horsesatemymoney said:



			I find their lifestyle fascinating- I loved how they were maintaining that lifestyel, but from their yard you could see a massive highway- like the meeting of old and new  Good to see them filmed in light of their horse skills, rather than studied as a almost freak show, like they usually are 

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I just think it is amazing to see the old traditions held to so steadfastly.

I always have youngsters asking me what I am doing when I am strapping my horses or hot towelling them. They are techniques that they have never even heard about. I always get comments on how good my horses look, but it is because I use the old fashioned time and elbow grease methods. I reckon we could learn a lot from the Amish...and not just when it comes to horses. 

I won't judge the horses hooves as I didn't see one footsore or unsound looking horse and they don't do roadwork or dressage or jumping. They work the fields, it is different and something I know very little about, so perhaps their feet are the way the individual horse is balanced for that type of work?


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## Pale Rider (10 February 2013)

I don't think anyone can make valid judgments from s programme like this, but I'd certainly love to be working with horses rather than diesel engines.


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## muckypony (10 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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This!

I've just watched it and had HHO open on the side seeing what comments people have had about whats going on... Perhaps if more people took the attitude shown on this program there would be far less horses branded as dangerous and un-rideable! I think its so nice to see horses doing a real job, what they were bred to do. It really gets my goat when people buy a horse and do naf all with it and wonder why it misbehaves, such a waste.

As for the stallion 'crash' and the dog - what did the stallion actually DO? Got a bit lippy... But he didnt actually do anything! And the dog - do people really think that horses such as the Budweiser clydes got used to dogs by being introduced gently gently..? 

Nice to see two horses produced by a non mamby-pamby trainer - I think they turned out pretty nice!


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## MochaDun (10 February 2013)

It might also be worth everyone remembering when we're all getting so hypercritical that what you're watching is a constructed piece of television, all edited - you don't see everything as they've had to squidge it all into less than an hour with endless ad breaks. Yes it's actuality of things but it's a construct - someone has written a script of what they want to cover, how they want it to look/sound/emotions they want it to create  in the audience etc.  Shots have been chosen, shots which might have told more of the story, given you more of an explanation of an incident will have been cut out or chosen not to use just for timing reasons.  I enjoyed the programme for what it was, a celebration of many breeds of heavy horses and the use they can be put to.  But I always remember those TV ads for The Guardian shown years ago...how you don't always see the whole picture and if you had it might have been a different story from the one you assumed.


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## fburton (10 February 2013)

muckypony said:



			what did the stallion actually DO? Got a bit lippy... But he didnt actually do anything!
		
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My concern is more over what could have happened to the stallion. He got well within kicking distance of the mare and _could_ have been kicked. Luckily he wasn't. Did the trainer know for sure she wouldn't kick? I don't think so. Anyway, it's not a risk I would have taken myself.




			And the dog - do people really think that horses such as the Budweiser clydes got used to dogs by being introduced gently gently..?
		
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I don't see why not. Isn't that the usual way of getting horses used to things - progressively? That isn't namby-pamby; it's common sense! Or do you think it's better to expose them to the max from the get-go?




			Nice to see two horses produced by a non mamby-pamby trainer - I think they turned out pretty nice!
		
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Agreed - the end result looked pretty solid. I still don't think the trainer _needed_ to do _some_ of the things he did - like the loud verbal scolding, or hauling quite so hard and long on the horse's mouth, or believing you need to dominate horses "because it's the only thing they understand" - in order to be successful. A person can still be confident, firm and no-nonsense without those. This isn't a major criticism of the guy though: it would be foolish to come to a conclusion based on just a snapshot - "a constructed piece of television, all edited" - and he certainly looked to be effective. I'm only giving my opinion of things I personally didn't like so much. Otherwise I enjoyed the programme a lot.


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## muckypony (10 February 2013)

Fair enough, everyones intitled to an opnion - thats what makes the world go round!

I'm all up for doing things progressively, I just think that making an issue of something makes it more of an issue to the horse - e.g. when the dog was there being yappy, they just ingored it therefore, so did the horse. I imagine if they'd have been more 'woah, woah stop, get the dog out of the way!' the horse would be more likely to be scared of the dog. (I agree with someone who mentioned it earlier, I don't think the dog was actually supposed to be there). 

Everyday I'm learning with my two yearlings - I've not had babies before so they are teaching me as much as I'm teaching them! And after seeing how they behave in certain situations its clear to see that the best way to teach them thigs is to just get on and do it. The neighbour has a dog who just doesn't stop yapping at them - at first I was worried evertime it came out and this made them very - my dad came up with me one day and the dog came out, he wondered why I was making such a fuss and made me leave them alone... The dog came out, barked and barked, the ponies trotted about a bit, then realsied it was nothing and carried on eating... Haven't heard the dog since!

More than anything, this program has made me want to drive my two (and possibl get a heavy horse.. ) After being towed around the field once on my backside, I know one of them will be excellent at it!!


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## Pale Rider (10 February 2013)

fburton, you're probably right, but as you say it was a snapshot for the tv. I still think he hammed  it up a bit, lol.


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## fburton (10 February 2013)

muckypony said:



			I'm all up for doing things progressively, I just think that making an issue of something makes it more of an issue to the horse - e.g. when the dog was there being yappy, they just ingored it therefore, so did the horse. I imagine if they'd have been more 'woah, woah stop, get the dog out of the way!' the horse would be more likely to be scared of the dog. (I agree with someone who mentioned it earlier, I don't think the dog was actually supposed to be there).
		
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I think that's a good point - how a horse reacts to something often depends on your own reactions and attitude, especially if the horse has had time to learn to trust your judgement. As you say, simply ignoring can be very effective!

Hope you have a fun time learning with your yearlings - working with unspoilt youngsters can be very rewarding.



Pale Rider said:



			I still think he hammed  it up a bit, lol.
		
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Yup, I reckon so - though I wouldn't blame him for that.


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## Vidock (10 February 2013)

Fascinating! I am a newcomer to this forum and know none of you (that I know...). I dont even live in the UK. But I do spend my days with draft horses. I have two of my own, a stallion and a mare (Percherons both). I spend time with breeders, trainers, users, at competitions, shows, you name it, all over the world. So, I think I have done the rounds of techniques and attitudes. So, I would say the following:

 I found it fascinating that everyone went on and on about the Clydesdales being schooled at the age of two (a perfectly good age to START schooling horses), but not a single person has said anything about the Czech logger who used his two-year olds to do a full days logging work. Why would that be?

 Axl, the stallion: I have had the pleasure of meeting him, conversing with him, sitting on his back and going through the water with him hitched to a (gulp..) mare, with Robert Sampson driving. I would say he is probably one of the most well-behaved and laid-back stallions I have met. But he is a stallion, and stallions do like to have fun and test the limits of your control of them. That is why we have geldings so that most people dont need to be able to do that. Kudos to Robert Sampson for being able to use Axl to do almost anything.

 Why was there not a single Shire in the programme? After all, there are only three native breeds of draft horse in the UK, and it would not have been too huge an effort for him to include all three, would it?

 The vineyards of Italy: Really? One unknown vineyard in all of Italy uses Comtois (and yes, that is how its written, not Comptoires as written in the official press release) and this is major news? Draft horses of various breeds are being used in vineyards all over France, including in some of the most prestigious vineyards of Bordeaux and Burgundy. It has been proven that they are more cost-effective and less destructive than tractors, but the programme did not see fit to mention this.

 Martin Clunes: Has anyone considered how much more interesting the programme might have been without him? If it had actually focused on heavy horses rather than MCs interaction with them, and how he might best use them to show what a wonderful (-) person he is?


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## AengusOg (10 February 2013)

Vidock said:



			&#8226; Martin Clunes: Has anyone considered how much more interesting the programme might have been without him? If it had actually focused on heavy horses rather than MC&#8217;s interaction with them, and how he might best use them to show what a wonderful (-) person he is?
		
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I have.


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## Floxie (10 February 2013)

Meg, I quite like the guy, and to be honest there's a reason he's the face of it. We might all enjoy a pure horsetest but I imagine the target audience in this case was a little broader, and it takes a popular face to sell something a bit niche to the wider crowd. And if that's what it takes, so be it. I'd rather see it on a major channel at prime time with Clunes than tucked away on some obscure sky channel cos it's justva bit too niche!


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## Floxie (10 February 2013)

Meh, not Meg! Horrid autocorrect!


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## Floxie (10 February 2013)

* horseFEST *cries*


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## RutlandH2O (10 February 2013)

Vidock said:



			Fascinating! I am a newcomer to this forum and know none of you (that I know...). I dont even live in the UK. But I do spend my days with draft horses. I have two of my own, a stallion and a mare (Percherons both). I spend time with breeders, trainers, users, at competitions, shows, you name it, all over the world. So, I think I have done the rounds of techniques and attitudes. So, I would say the following:

 I found it fascinating that everyone went on and on about the Clydesdales being schooled at the age of two (a perfectly good age to START schooling horses), but not a single person has said anything about the Czech logger who used his two-year olds to do a full days logging work. Why would that be?

 Axl, the stallion: I have had the pleasure of meeting him, conversing with him, sitting on his back and going through the water with him hitched to a (gulp..) mare, with Robert Sampson driving. I would say he is probably one of the most well-behaved and laid-back stallions I have met. But he is a stallion, and stallions do like to have fun and test the limits of your control of them. That is why we have geldings so that most people dont need to be able to do that. Kudos to Robert Sampson for being able to use Axl to do almost anything.

 Why was there not a single Shire in the programme? After all, there are only three native breeds of draft horse in the UK, and it would not have been too huge an effort for him to include all three, would it?

 The vineyards of Italy: Really? One unknown vineyard in all of Italy uses Comtois (and yes, that is how its written, not Comptoires as written in the official press release) and this is major news? Draft horses of various breeds are being used in vineyards all over France, including in some of the most prestigious vineyards of Bordeaux and Burgundy. It has been proven that they are more cost-effective and less destructive than tractors, but the programme did not see fit to mention this.

 Martin Clunes: Has anyone considered how much more interesting the programme might have been without him? If it had actually focused on heavy horses rather than MCs interaction with them, and how he might best use them to show what a wonderful (-) person he is?
		
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Very interesting post. I am in agreement with most of what you have expressed. Being a Shire person, I, too, wondered why there were no Shires in the programme. The Shire is the most numerous of the heavy horse breeds in the UK. Perhaps that is why none were shown. The Shire Horse Society goes on about how endangered the breed has become, but one look at the yearly stud book puts paid to that rubbish. True, back in the 1950s, 60s, even 70s, registrations were critically down, but certainly not now. Buying and, particularly, selling Shires abroad is big business. In England, the Shire has always eclipsed the Clyde and the Suffolk. When I purchased my late Clyde, my Shire friends and acquaintances were rather miffed. Their feeling was that my Clyde gelding was taking up valuable space on my farm that could have been occupied by a Shire mare (I have had 5 Shire mares...I'm down to two now). Obviously, in Scotland the reverse is true re: Clydes vs Shires. Martin Clunes flying the flag for Clydes in England is great PR for the breed. 

Martin is a very affable chap and certainly was a draw for a programme on heavy horses (or  goats or yaks, for that matter). For all of us horsey folks, there needn't have been any humans involved for us to watch the show. But for the non-horsey public, Martin is a mushy, non-threatening everyman with whom viewers can identify and, ultimately, boost ratings. 

I am also a lapsed member of the British Percheron Horse Society. I adore the breed. If I were quite a few years younger...

Robert Sampson is a very visible entity within the society. His work with Axl and his aptitude in driving is very well-known. Those qualities, and his proximity to Martin's farm, were probably deciding factors in his being chosen to train Martin and his "boys."

The vineyards and their use of Comtois in France is very interesting and something of which I did not know. Thank you for that information.


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## Pale Rider (10 February 2013)

It was for the general public to view, not us freaky horse folk, so MC is essential.

I get the impression people wanted more from this 50mins than they actually got.


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## SHCC (10 February 2013)

Well said Vidock! 
I especially agree with your last point having had the 'honour' of meeting with MC and the production team in France.

Pity that after all the chaos and interruption that MC etc caused in France that they didn't feature more of the Route Du Poison than just the boat pull. Or is that because the rest of the British Team wouldn't be pressured into playing along with the producer? 
Having had a stand up row with the producer and been put under unfair pressure by MC to do something that I wasn't keen on, me thinks so.


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## dancingdriver (10 February 2013)

Personally I think for a basic general public horse programme it was ok - bit of variety, not too many inane questions asked etc. However I agree with Vidock - they tend to romanticise things for TV and make out that using horses in certain areas is unusual (maybe to us it is but not abroad) - people out there do so much more with their working horses (not just heavies either!) 
I understand they had to show the Budweiser Clydes and Route du Poisson but I also feel every time carriage driving is mentioned the Amish have to be featured and I'm sure most people have heard of them - maybe they coud have included less traditional uses of the heavy horse such as in driving trials etc? However I appreciate its got to appeal to a broad audience and time is a factor.
With regards to training I think Martin should have sent them to someone like Barry Hook - from his videos on Youtube he takes a lot of time preparing the horses for things and doesn't hang on their mouths (he drives in rubber bits). I also feel it would have been a nice ending to have seen Martin working his horses around his own farm rather than just driving them round a field seeing as that was what he wanted to do with them in the first place. However for a short one-off programme you can't show everything and I think we should be grateful driving horses were featured on a channel other than Horse and Country! Hopefully it will continue and we will have more on similar topics in the future.


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## Fii (10 February 2013)

Pale Rider said:



			It was for the general public to view, not us freaky horse folk, so MC is essential.

I get the impression people wanted more from this 50mins than they actually got.
		
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TBH if i had any criticism of the show, it would be that i would have preferred it to have been longer, and done on maybe three or four half hour slots over three or four weeks!
 And yes also had some Shires, they didnt even show the ringwood brewery show shires and they are only a few miles from MC!


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## Fii (10 February 2013)

SHCC said:



			Well said Vidock! 
I especially agree with your last point having had the 'honour' of meeting with MC and the production team in France.

Pity that after all the chaos and interruption that MC etc caused in France that they didn't feature more of the Route Du Poison than just the boat pull. Or is that because the rest of the British Team wouldn't be pressured into playing along with the producer? 
Having had a stand up row with the producer and been put under unfair pressure by MC to do something that I wasn't keen on, me thinks so. 

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I did wonder why they didnt show more of the Route Du poison!


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## cambrica (10 February 2013)

I agree, it would have been far better to have had 3 or 4 episodes. Ive had many non-horsey folk saying "Did you watch MC and the heavy horses, wasn't it brilliant". For the older generation it really stirred up nostalgic memories of their fathers / grandfathers having working horses. 
Considering that the Suffolk Punch is on the 'critical' list, the Clydesdale on the 'vulnerable' list and the Shire on the 'at risk' list it would have been a positive for the breed societies if the general public were made more aware of this.


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## Patterdale (11 February 2013)

I think he should have taken a year over it, used Parelli and natural horsemanship, stopped and instead of just calmly and firmly pushing him on, he should have gone back to the beginning every time the horse was unsure. 

When the dog came, instead of just getting on with it and jeeping the horse working through distractions, he should have stopped, screamed 'OH MY GOSH, a DOG!! A DOG IS COMING!! WOAH, steadyyyy, WOAH! A DOG!! Oh GOD it's still HERE! Steady boy, IT'S OK!! It's OK!! WOAH!!'


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## Amymay (11 February 2013)

Patterdale said:



			I think he should have taken a year over it, used Parelli and natural horsemanship, stopped and instead of just calmly and firmly pushing him on, he should have gone back to the beginning every time the horse was unsure. 

When the dog came, instead of just getting on with it and jeeping the horse working through distractions, he should have stopped, screamed 'OH MY GOSH, a DOG!! A DOG IS COMING!! WOAH, steadyyyy, WOAH! A DOG!! Oh GOD it's still HERE! Steady boy, IT'S OK!! It's OK!! WOAH!!'



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Naughty


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## *hic* (11 February 2013)

Patterdale said:



			I think he should have taken a year over it, used Parelli and natural horsemanship, stopped and instead of just calmly and firmly pushing him on, he should have gone back to the beginning every time the horse was unsure. 

When the dog came, instead of just getting on with it and jeeping the horse working through distractions, he should have stopped, screamed 'OH MY GOSH, a DOG!! A DOG IS COMING!! WOAH, steadyyyy, WOAH! A DOG!! Oh GOD it's still HERE! Steady boy, IT'S OK!! It's OK!! WOAH!!'



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amymay said:



			Naughty 

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but damned funny


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## SHCC (11 February 2013)

Sorry Fii.
All my fault, I dared to say no to carrying extra unnecessary weight on a difficult night stage. 
Sorry guys x


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## Double_choc_lab (11 February 2013)

I wonder how many more horsey programmes we'll see on TV bearing in mind the criticism received here.


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## Pale Rider (11 February 2013)

Of course once the dog situation is sorted, you can move on to cyclists, motorcycles, cars, waggons, busses, tractors other horses in fields and the penultimate pigs.


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## Pale Rider (11 February 2013)

Double choc lab, I wouldn't worry, no one takes any notice.


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## Finkins (11 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO. 
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them. 
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
		
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** this. What a load of nonsense gets written on this page, all the critics should perhaps watch the programme again with the above in mind.


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## dancingdriver (11 February 2013)

Don't forget plastic bags Pale Rider! Its a shame there aren't more trainers/actual horsemen (not showmen - big difference  ) who teach horses to cope with those things on your list. It annoys me that people think you should keep everything calm and quiet when training horses - when things go wrong chances are its not going to be a "calm, quiet" situation so hey how about teaching it to handle that type of thing as well?! May not be to everyone's taste but surely its better for the horse in the long run? As I said before, there are people like Barry Hook who do this type of thing, but they seem to be the exception rather than the general rule. Does anyone know if they will be doing a "catch-up" show in the future, like a year-on thing? I'm sure (despite all the critique about it) there are more people who WANT to see another show than those that don't, if only to give us more fuel for debate...


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## doriangrey (11 February 2013)

Spring Feather said:



			For anyone not in the UK here's the international link http://brittv.co.uk/play.php?t=41828

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Finally got to see this (thanks for the link Spring Feather).  I must admit, from the thread I was expecting to see something rather more controversial and meaty than the nice bit of light entertainment with some beautiful horses thrown in.


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## tallyho! (11 February 2013)

What people don't seem to understand is that it is bleak midwinter outside. No sign of spring. It's freezing. Most people live in mud. Everyone's fed up and crying out for some sunshine engineered happiness as it still seems like we live in darkness.

Moaning about tv programmes is about the best it's going to get right now. So, either join in wholeheartedly, or start another riveting thread!


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## doriangrey (11 February 2013)

You're not the boss of me


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## CatStew (11 February 2013)

I personally don't have a problem with the two horses being broken to drive as two year olds, at the end of the day, they're going to grow to be big, strong animals so for safety reasons, surely its better to do all the basic work with them before they're fully grown?  Presumably after being started they'll have 6 months or so off before being restarted and their education being furthered?

I'm a bit on the fence regarding the JRT chasing the horse round whilst it was being lunged.  When I was watching the programme I was concerned, not for the horse as I agree with what has already been mentioned that these youngsters need to be 'desensitised' from as much as possible so that they don't bat an eyelid when they're out and about at shows etc - if they spooked and things started to go wrong it could cause carnage!  I was a little worried that the dog was going to get kicked in the head though, perhaps it would have been better to keep it at bay until the horse had at least got used to lunging?  Just my opinion on it.

I did really enjoy the programme though, and wish there were more horsey programmes on!  I'd never heard of a fishing horse before so did find it interesting to learn about that.


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## Fii (11 February 2013)

Fii said:



			TBH if i had any criticism of the show, it would be that i would have preferred it to have been longer, and done on maybe three or four half hour slots over three or four weeks!
 And yes also had some Shires, they didnt even show the ringwood brewery show shires and they are only a few miles from MC!
		
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Patterdale said:



			I think he should have taken a year over it, used Parelli and natural horsemanship, stopped and instead of just calmly and firmly pushing him on, he should have gone back to the beginning every time the horse was unsure. 

When the dog came, instead of just getting on with it and jeeping the horse working through distractions, he should have stopped, screamed 'OH MY GOSH, a DOG!! A DOG IS COMING!! WOAH, steadyyyy, WOAH! A DOG!! Oh GOD it's still HERE! Steady boy, IT'S OK!! It's OK!! WOAH!!'



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Not sure if this was aimed at my comment, but to clarify, i meant that to show more of the heavy horse community, different breeds, different disciplines, and just because i want to see more of them,   the program could have been longer!


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## Caol Ila (11 February 2013)

Finally saw this.  I wish there had been more Shires, as my horse is half-Shire, but hey ho.

Otherwise, I'm surprised by all the HHO posters who thought Martin's young Clydies were broken to harness in 15 minutes.  It's a 45 minute-long TV program, guys.  It's edited within an inch of its life. They're not going to show the rather dull (to a general audience) parts of introducing the horses to all the tack they're going to wear.  I'm sure all that went on.  It just didn't fit into 45 minutes that was meant to be entertainment, not a step-by-step training video on how to break a horse to drive.


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## FabioandFreddy (12 February 2013)

Eventually watched this off my planner. I enjoyed it, loved the Bud horses too. I reckon Fab would let me vacuum him! May buy a handheld and try it out on him! 

Must say my only bugbear was all the barbed wire fencing in the guys paddocks, but thats one of my pet peeves generally where horses are kept.


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## SKY (12 February 2013)

Is there another one this third part 2?


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## SKY (12 February 2013)

Is there another one this thurs part 2?


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## RutlandH2O (12 February 2013)

SKY said:



			Is there another one this thurs part 2?
		
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No, it's a repeat.


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## tallyho! (12 February 2013)

Oh yay! We can start all over again!!!


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## Springy (12 February 2013)

tallyho! said:



			Oh yay! We can start all over again!!!
		
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No we cant we have to agree implicitly with everything we see on that programme so why start over lets just say it was perfect and we all agree and anyone that doesnt is an idiot who will have horses that walk all over them and knows nothing


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## tallyho! (12 February 2013)

Springy said:



			No we cant we have to agree implicitly with everything we see on that programme so why start over lets just say it was perfect and we all agree and anyone that doesnt is an idiot who will have horses that walk all over them and knows nothing 

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Oh  does that mean I can't wind anyone up about JRT squashing again?

I enjoyed that


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## Rebels (13 February 2013)

Just seen the repeat and was pleased to see the stallion Axel, he comes out with the hunt all dolled up with the ribbons etc. And he is extremely well behaved even with the other horses close by.


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