# Foal STILL scouring. Any ideas?



## Bojingles (16 June 2012)

I posted a few days ago about my foal scouring. The next day she was still scouring and looked a bit depressed so I brought her and mum in. The vet came out, she had a slight temperature (39.5) and he left me with some Diarsanyl and an electrolyte replacement powder. He said he'd be reluctant to give anti-bs at this point and to keep a close eye on her.

I've been taking her temp several times a day and it has come down to around the 38.5 mark. She's feeding and isn't showing any signs of dehydration but the runs are still really bad - like yellow liquid. I've taken mum off all hard feed and she's just on plenty of hay. The foal's still down in the dumps- she hasn't got any worse but not any better except the temp's come down. 

Any ideas anyone?


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## eventrider23 (16 June 2012)

Has the vet taken a fecal sample to test for anything serious???  Plus bloods?  Also have you tried her on something like Tuff Rock which is effectively Volvanic Ash/Rock and helps solidify her scours.  Would also put on something like Protexin Quick Fix Probiotic paste as continual scours will kill off the gut flora and as such helping provide a replacement will help them pick up quicker.


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## Bojingles (16 June 2012)

I haven't given her anything other than what the vet gave me - I have no experience of foals (she was an accidental BOGOF) so I went with his advice. He said the Diarsanyl would help firm her up. Not working yet . He didn't take any fecal samples either. I'm going to see her in a bit - I may ring the vet. What could be causing this? Thanks for your reply!


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## eventrider23 (16 June 2012)

With foals it can be anything from the absolute simplest such as mum's food too rich or being in season right up to the severe bacterial conditions they can get.  Foals don't have strong stomachs and are very prone to scours and so it can be a wide variety of things causing it.  How old is the foal now??  How long has it been scouring for?  If it has a temperature I am surprised that the vet wouldn't have taken a blood sample at least to see what is going on internally and so I would definitely speak to them if you are on good terms and otherwise if foal is still low tomorrow I would get them out as foals can go downhill soo quickly.


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## Bojingles (16 June 2012)

She's been scouring on and off for 2 weeks, but it's only the last couple of days that she's started to get a bit depressed. The vet said he wouldn't want to do any more than he did at the moment but I'll see how she is in a minute and call him again if she's still the same.


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## Bojingles (16 June 2012)

PS she's 4 1/2 weeks


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## whirlwindhorses (16 June 2012)

Have you wormed her? If not then i would worm her with a whole tube of Panacur paste. Panacur is safe to use.  Some foals do scour a lot and a wormer usually stops it, she might scour worse for a day or two after. If she stops feeding off the mare then you need to get your vet asap.


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## Lgd (17 June 2012)

Get some Prokolin foal (by Protexin) - used it on my little chap when he started to scour on Mum's foal heat and he dried up almost immediately


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## oldywoldy (17 June 2012)

Prokolin for foals is the best stuff easily available I would be very wary of the suggestion of giving her a whole tube of Panacur certainly worm her but for 100kgs or so if she is nearly 5 weeks old.  To have been scouring for over 2 weeks is not great - I am suprised she is not dehydrated and will be losing protein fast.  Any deterioration get the vet immediately as foals can go down hill very quickly.  There is also some fantastic stuff called Bio Sponge which your vet can get for you is expensive but very effective.


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## Miss L Toe (17 June 2012)

It is difficult to get something on a Sunday morning, if it were me, I would ring a local stud to see if they have something in stock, else get to the vet on monday morning. The foal may not survive for ever!


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## Maesfen (17 June 2012)

Try some natural yoghurt which might just help line the stomach.  It certainly won't work against anything you try later and might just clear the problem up, our vets often recommend it.  We usually syringe it down and they take it easily.


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## Bojingles (17 June 2012)

Thank you for your replies everyone. She's still not doing well - if anything the scouring's worse. Her temperature has gradually been coming down and is now bang on 38. She's feeding and showing interest in mum's hay but still down in the dumps. I'm syringe feeding her half-litres of electrolytes at regular intervals.

I called the vet and had a brief conversation - he was on another call. He seems reluctant to do anything. He actually said "there's not much we can do except support her with the electrolytes." He said to go to the surgery to collect some more Diarsanyl and electrolytes. He's also going to call after this call-out he's on. What do you think I should push for? Bloods? Fecal sample? 

I was advised against worming the foal or mum while the foal's so dicky. I will feed her some yogurt as she's accepting the syringe no problem. Do I need a prescription for the Protexin ProKolin? 

Thanks again for your help.


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## tynedale (17 June 2012)

No you don't need a prescription but vet will have some.
Ask your vet which sample would be best but it's not an instant result, about 5 days for rotavirus etc.
Thought he would have given ab's as her temperature was high wasn't it!
We had Prokolin and Diarsanyl together for one of our foals but it didn't work so are back on another antibiotic again now and on to our second fecal sample being sent away.
Hope she clears up soon it's such a worry isn't it.
Don't forget to disinfect everything daily with something like virkon and bed spotless! Also keep her bottom and tail as clean as you can and smear vaseline around the area to stop burns. If your not happy with the vets advice get another one in to look at your foal.


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## Bojingles (17 June 2012)

It is a worry!! I just spoke to the vet again. He said the absolute priority is to keep her fluids and electrolytes up so I'm going to the surgery to pick some more up. He said the probiotics will be the next thing so if I can get some today I will but it might be tomorrow. 

Surprisingly he said absolutely not to the yogurt - he said it has nothing beneficial for a horse gut and could make things worse.

Off to feed her some more fluids. Thanks again.


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## Rollin (17 June 2012)

I have only one experienced scour in a foal, so am no expert.  Certainly my Scottish vet would have recommended live yoghurt.

I had an email this morning from another CB breeder (with decades of experience) a mare arrived for covering with a foal, which scoured, she gave a-b immediately to the foal.

I shall google off and have a little google.


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## angrovestud (17 June 2012)

Hello we have just been through the same thing in our filly she started at 7 days and after 3 days of it not stopping i got our vet out he jabed her with ant Bs as her temp was raised slightly but she was not down at all far from it shes bronked since she came out! we have never had a foal scour so it was worrying me, we gave her actimel 5mil syringed twice a day i also used something called pepto bismol which lines the tummy i took mum off all hard feed but chaff and fiber nuts and 3 weeks later shes dry It could well be the grass this year my vet would always be safe then sorry oh and she got wormed on the spot we weaned her off the pepso bismol slowly and all is fine. good luck with her


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## TBB (17 June 2012)

As others have said a prolonged scour in a foal is not good. As long as you use a "live culture" yougart it will only help your foal's gut, the equine hospital we use swears by it even for foals after a course of antibiotics, you can get it in your local supermarket and foals love it. We also put them on "TuffRock" which I find very good for binding them and of course electrolytes if there is a danger of dehydration which is probably likely if scour is running out of the foal like you describe. We dose all our foals with a quarter tube of panacur at about 14 days as a scour prevention, has your vet mentioned Rotovirus? We had a foal with it only once (thank God) but the vet knew the minute he walked in (It has a distinctive smell apparently) and said ABs of no use but we stopped the foal sucking the mare and dosed the foal with everything I had for scour (foals and calves) and everything he had in the jeep (also for foals and calves) and fed it on electrolytes for 3 days and as she started to improve she was let back on the mare gradually and everything went fine. Vet said no one thing can fix it you just have to try everything to sort out the symptoms. I know you want to stick with your vet and I'm not saying you shouldn't but I think some "live culture yougart" wont do any harm and may help.


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## SusieT (17 June 2012)

Your vet sounds like he is doing the right thing. Bloods will not show anything useful. Antibitoics are very unlikely to be effective as it is most likely viral. Supportive therapy-ie.l keeping her non dehydrated is the way to go.


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## Bojingles (17 June 2012)

Just back from our last syringe feed of the day - she's had 2 litres today. I washed her bum and put some cream on at about 5 and she hasn't scoured since. I'm hoping that's a positive sign! Temp's 38.4. Fingers crossed for a brighter foal tomorrow.


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## tynedale (18 June 2012)

How is your foal today?


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## Mugsgame (18 June 2012)

oldywoldy said:



			Prokolin for foals is the best stuff easily available I would be very wary of the suggestion of giving her a whole tube of Panacur certainly worm her but for 100kgs or so if she is nearly 5 weeks old.
		
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To be fair though, a whole tube of Panacur is the recommended dose per 90kg bodyweight for a scouring foal of this age - we had one this year who was reasonably bright in herself but just continually scouring.  Tried a whole range of supportive treatments but only really dried up after this wormer.  This on a yard with excellent worm control and prevention, but who knows, they only need a few to set the cycle off in them!  She was also supported with Forgastrin, electrolytes, pre and probiotics, etc.  Foals are quite sensitive and often have a bout of scouring, but most would clear up after a few days.

If she continues to scour I would seriously consider the worming route - check with your vet first if you are worried, but at the very least it shouldn't hurt her and for around £7 per tube its not to costly to try!


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## frozzy (18 June 2012)

I had a Welsh B foal scour for the entire 6 months he was on his mother. Vet did worm counts on both mare and foal which came back negative. He had a couple of syringes of prokaolin which did dry him up but as soon as it stopped he went back to scouring. Vet put it down to rich mares milk. As soon as he was weaned he stopped scouring and is now a healthy 3 year old.


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## Bojingles (18 June 2012)

Thanks for your replies everyone. I thought we'd turned a corner this morning as she seemed brighter and hadn't scoured at all overnight. She was also feeding so I didn't give her extra fluids.

But then this afternoon her temp had nudged up (only to 38.4) and she started scouring again - projectile yellow liquid. So I gave her some more fluids. Her poor bum's so sore even though I'm cleaning it and rubbing baby oil or vaseline the skin's all coming off.

I'm going to the surgery first thing to get more electrolytes and Diarsalyn so will have a chat with the vet then. It's just going on and on - I feel we need to intervene with something else as what we're doing is not really improving things much. So I'll talk to the vet tomorrow about worming, anti-bs. 

I just wonder if it could be anything to do with the mare's milk? Because I gave her so much fluid yesterday I reckon she didn't take so much from mum and then stopped scouring. 

Oh well, I'll let you know what the vet says tomorrow.


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## Maesfen (19 June 2012)

It could well be the mare's milk being too rich; what are you feeding the mare, perhaps that would give you a clue?  Sometimes foals don't do well when the mare has a molassed feed.


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## Amymay (19 June 2012)

Maesfen said:



			It could well be the mare's milk being too rich; what are you feeding the mare, perhaps that would give you a clue?  Sometimes foals don't do well when the mare has a molassed feed.
		
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Ooo beat me to it.

OP, may be worth taking mare off everything except hay - to see if that does any good.


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## sallyf (19 June 2012)

My vet would certainly have run bloods by now particularly if the foal has had any sort of 
temperature.
They will tell you if there is any infection which is a possibility with her flucuations in temp and whether she has not got ulcers from the constant scouring.
We always give gastro gard for a few days to any foal that scours just to make sure ulcers dont occur.
I also had a filly that scoured and none of the normal treatments worked and a course of antibiotics after blood tests did stop it within 2 days and she never scoured again after that.
Any problems with foals we always run blood tests but then my vet practice deal with hundreds and hundereds of valuable foals on a daily basis so perphaps look at things from a differant perspective.


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## Bojingles (19 June 2012)

Saw the vet this morning and he thinks it is the mare's milk that's causing the scouring, as it's going on but she doesn't have a temperature (37.6 this morning). He's also happy it's not something she picked up in the field as they've now been in 5 days, so he thinks they should go out now, particularly as she's not "clinically abnormal", just a bit miserable and listless. 

I've picked up some more Diarsalyn and the plan is to turn them out and still keep a very close eye on her.

Maesfen - while they've been in the mare's only been on hay, and when they go out I won't give her any hard feed. She's looking very well so that shouldn't be a problem. 

Frozzy, how did you manage the constant scouring, and did the foal get depressed?

God, they're such a worry!!! Thanks again for your replies.


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## hayinamanger (19 June 2012)

A scouring, depressed foal?  I would be unhappy in this this situation.  I haven't read through all the posts, but if the vet has not taken a dung sample yet, I would definitely want this done.  I would also want the foal on Tribrissen paste (or whatever it's called now) with Antepsin to follow.


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## eventrider23 (19 June 2012)

I actually saw my vet this morning as was out to scan a mare and put this story across to her and immediate action would have been to put the foal on some Tuff Rock or similar and a pro biotic and done a fecal sample.  The constant scours, no matter what the cause, will deplete her natural gut flora and so the probiotics will rectify this and so on.


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## Bojingles (19 June 2012)

Well, they've gone out; the mare charged around and the foal joined in, which was good to see. She's also feeding. I'm really hoping that now she's back on the Diarsanyl it'll help bind her, and then I can talk to the vet about worming. 

I've been googling Diarsanyl, it contains prebiotics and seems to be good stuff. Fingers crossed!


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## sallyf (19 June 2012)

PlanetHacking said:



			Well, they've gone out; the mare charged around and the foal joined in, which was good to see. She's also feeding. I'm really hoping that now she's back on the Diarsanyl it'll help bind her, and then I can talk to the vet about worming. 

I've been googling Diarsanyl, it contains prebiotics and seems to be good stuff. Fingers crossed!
		
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Diarsanyl is very good stuff we use it along with a charcoal based product ,the name escapes me.
Both products usually do the trick.
The one we put on antibiotics would bind for a couple of days but then would start squiting again once we weaned her off the drugs.
Antibiotics sorted eventually


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## tynedale (20 June 2012)

How is your foal now?


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## Bojingles (20 June 2012)

She's not great, I'm afraid . She's still feeding but still scouring and not happy. I've kept her topped up with plenty of electrolytes but the Diarsanyl isn't working. I was on the verge of contacting a different vet for a second opinion but my original vet agrees that he now needs to run some tests. For pathogens, he said, not sure if this will be bloods or fecal or both. I wish I'd insisted on tests sooner, you live and learn.


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## sallyf (20 June 2012)

I would run bloods first that will tell you if it is infection but also if it is immflamatory and the best way to treat it.
We are very lucky and a full blood screen on a foal only costs arond £30 and we get results in a few hours.
They run so many differant tests on the blood and they look for certain markers that give an indication of the problem.
Rotavirus is something common on the bigs studs but not common if there hasnt been lots of foals born on site before as it passes on through previous contamination.
Good luck its not nice to have a sick foal and i hope he/she gets better soon


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## widget (20 June 2012)

I have no words of wisdom but I hope your foaly is feeling better soon x


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## tynedale (21 June 2012)

I hoped there was going to be better news.
Lets hope your vet springs in to action today then and gets some results for you soon.
Are you bringing her in at night?


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## Bojingles (21 June 2012)

Poor foal's no better; if anything a bit worse. It's really taking its toll now. The vet came and took lots of bloods, fecal sample and a swab, hopes to have some results tomorrow. They're in now and won't be going out till this is sorted. I'm feeding her electrolytes more intensively now, half a litre every 3 hours and keeping on with the Diarsanyl. I must admit I'm worried sick. Thanks for your concern, I'll keep you posted.


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## Amymay (22 June 2012)

I wonder if it's time to tell your vet you'd like the foal referred to hospital (for more intensive support).


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## Bojingles (22 June 2012)

amymay said:



			I wonder if it's time to tell your vet you'd like the foal referred to hospital (for more intensive support).
		
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Just as I was typing my reply the vet phoned! He's had the first set of blood results which suggest infection, as the white blood cells are high. In a strange way I'm quite relieved as, depending on the next set of bloods, they're planning to start her on anti-biotics this afternoon. Also, the bloods showed that she's not showing signs of dehydration, which is good news.

I do agree though Amymay, if she doesn't pick up soon I'll ask for a referral. Thanks again everyone.


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## Amymay (22 June 2012)

Poor you, and foal.  Have to say I'd be none too impressed with my vet by this stage.

Please keep us posted.  We all have everything crossed for a speedy turnaround.


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## eventrider23 (22 June 2012)

PlanetHacking said:



			Just as I was typing my reply the vet phoned! He's had the first set of blood results which suggest infection, as the white blood cells are high. In a strange way I'm quite relieved as, depending on the next set of bloods, they're planning to start her on anti-biotics this afternoon. Also, the bloods showed that she's not showing signs of dehydration, which is good news.

I do agree though Amymay, if she doesn't pick up soon I'll ask for a referral. Thanks again everyone.
		
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Glad you are getting the right help for her now.  

I'm afraid that I would be saying something to the practice as everything you have said about her so far from the water like scours right down to the temperature suggested she has been fighting something for a while and your vet really should have been more proactive and got her tested sooner.

I have lost a gorgeous filly here this year...she had prolonged scours and was very lethargic....we treated withe everything we could as the bloods showed an infection however we still were unable to save her and so it just shows how delicate they are.

Good luck.


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## Amos (22 June 2012)

I would be very unhappy about the way your vet has handled this. I am amazed he has left it so long to get tests underway!? Lets just hope that now he is doing something that it isn't too late. 

Keeping everything crossed for you and the foal x


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## Bojingles (22 June 2012)

Yes, I'm very unhappy that tests weren't done sooner, as it certainly wouldn't have done any harm. I've been speaking to the vet daily so he has known the full situation. He was fairly sure the Diarsanyl would sort it, and didn't think she had an infection as she hasn't had a temperature for a week. I took his advice as I have no experience of foals at all (she was a surprise). Still, at the end of the day she's my responsibility and I should have insisted.


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## Amymay (22 June 2012)

PlanetHacking said:



			Still, at the end of the day she's my responsibility and I should have insisted.
		
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I don't think you can beat yourself up about it.  After all we pay professionals for their advice in the assumption that they are experts in their field.


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## Amos (22 June 2012)

amymay said:



			I don't think you can beat yourself up about it.  After all we pay professionals for their advice in the assumption that they are experts in their field.
		
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Totally agree


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## Lark (22 June 2012)

Fingers and toes crossed that your little filly fights off the infection and is well again soon.
Like the others have said I would be very very angry with the lack of action taken by the vet.  I would talk to the practice and review your bill when this all closes out.
Also I would definitely put the feelers out for another vet/hospital now in the event that she worries you over the next couple of days.

The very very best of luck.


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## Bojingles (22 June 2012)

Thank you everyone for your support. The vet has had some more blood results and on the basis of those spoke to a consultant at Liverpool Uni Equine Hospital and we now have a treatment plan. In addition to the Diarsanyl and electrolytes, she's also now having oral antibiotics and probiotics. Another vet from the same practice came out and saw her this afternoon and all her clinical signs are normal (temp, heart, gums, gut sounds) but she's still very depressed. I'm glad we're finally doing something but do wish we'd started sooner.


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## tynedale (22 June 2012)

So glad that you now have a treatment plan for your foal and fingers crossed it works.
If they now know she has an infection and have started her on the appropriate antibiotics lets hope for some improvement soon.
You have done everything and as has been said before, put your trust in your vet. I would be questioning why samples weren't taken before because had they done that then treatment could have started earlier.
I have had a few foals scour over the last few years and called vets out and one of the first thing that we did was send a poo sample to the lab to see what was going on.
Anyway, the most important thing at the moment is to get your foal bouncing around again and enjoying being a foal!
You can think about complaining later.
Agree about looking for another vet just in case.
Keep us all updated.


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## eventrider23 (22 June 2012)

Definitely do NOT beat yourself up as whilst yes you may have no prior experience of foals...you have done EVERYTHING you can to help her and been more vigilant than many by calling in professional help daily.  Especially as the vet knew you were new to this he/she should have helped more and been more thorough for you as well as simply doing the job properly from the start!


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## Alec Swan (22 June 2012)

PlanetHacking said:



			Thank you everyone for your support. The vet has had some more blood results and on the basis of those spoke to a consultant at Liverpool Uni Equine Hospital and we now have a treatment plan. ........
		
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Finally!  You have every reason to be peeved.  You are not an experienced breeder,  you've called for assistance,  after too long a time span,  the right steps are now being taken.  

What to do?  That's a difficult one.  It sounds like you need your vet,  and there's no point in damaging your relationship with the practice.  However,  in your shoes,  when the initially attending vet is with you,  I would wait for a lull in the conversation and ask him just why it had taken 5-6-7 days (however long it's been) for proper tests to be carried out,  and for a further opinion.  Before he gets a chance to answer,  stay calm,  look him straight in the eye,  and point out that if you lose the foal,  then you will not be seeing the funny side of life.

You've been on this forum,  seeking advice and some highly experienced breeders have suggested days ago that further exploratory work needs to be done.  You may point that out to him,  too.

From what you say,  I don't think that you've been treated very well.  You and your foal have my sympathy.  

Alec.


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## angrovestud (23 June 2012)

Here Here Alec I was shocked that your vet just did not jab anti Bs as soon as he took the temp my vet did and she got another shot as well,we did not do tests but the foal was not depressed quiet the opposite. 
I do hope she now getting better with the anti bs well done xx


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## Bojingles (23 June 2012)

Well, I have cautiously optimistic news today. She's stopped scouring and is passing solids! She's still very down but I think I would expect her to be given the prolonged infection and scouring. Luckily she's inherited her mum's laid-back temperament and is very amenable to the intensive treatment - by the time I've finished one round of syringing it's almost time to start the next .

I'll keep you posted, this is a really worrying time and the support from you knowledgeable people has been very much appreciated.


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## tynedale (23 June 2012)

Well that is just fabulous news, I am thrilled for you!
With all of your intensive care I would hope to see more improvement tomorrow and even more the following day.
Well done, get your foal well again and then think about the vet.


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## Bojingles (24 June 2012)

Touch wood, I think we may be turning a corner. When I arrived this morning I could tell from the mare's udder that the foal was feeding better and she fed heartily four times while I was there. She also seems much less withdrawn and more engaged, she had a little play with the wheelbarrow and nicked a bit of mum's hay.


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## SKY (24 June 2012)

my foal had a awful scour last sunday.  green water it was like something out of the omen only coming from the bum.  yuk, anyway rang vet, he give me a injection for him and a probaoic (sp) paste.  i had to inject 10 mls in sunday and 10mls on tues and i give half the paste on sunday and tuesday.
bring him into vet and get them to give an injection.
youkurts are great but not at this stage as this seems like bacterial infection.  i owuldnt let it go anylonger.  toouch wood my filly was fine on tusday but had to finish the course.  but i know someone that lost a foal this year with a scour that wouldnt go away.  hope all will be ok, but i would get vet to see her.  let us know how you get on.


just realised everything is ok now, glad to here.


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## carmenlucy123 (27 June 2012)

obviously this is more worrying than the runs my foal had from the powdered milk being too rich, and obviously your dealing with it which is great

but if your foal does suffer and it is not an infection I found psillium husk worked for me it is just grass seed so I did not have to worry about giving it to my foal and I fed it consistantly while she was on milk as I was having to bath her morning noon and night 
I also put yoghurt and electrolytes in the milk and it cleared up immediatley

anyway thought you might like to know but as I say I can see this is more than just scouring xxx


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## MadisonBelle (27 June 2012)

Any more news Planet Hacking?


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## Bojingles (27 June 2012)

Hi yes, sorry, I started another thread and didn't update this one. Fingers crossed, she's still on the mend. The scouring has stopped altogether, and the course of antibiotics has finished. I'll keep on with the probiotics for a bit. I think it'll be some time before she's 100% as it's really taken it out of her. My feckless vet had the last of the results today and she's clear for worms so that's good.

My plan is to keep them in until the weekend just to be sure, and then turn them out. The foal's definitely more with it. When I popped them in a spare stable this morning to muck out, she went exploring, which is real progress


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## Bojingles (28 June 2012)

I thought we'd turned a corner - the foal had stopped scouring, was feeding really well and all round much stronger. 

I arrived this morning to find her looking really poor, the worst yet, and not feeding at all. That's the first time is got's that bad. Called the vet out immediately, her temp and heart rate were through the roof. Vet gave her a jab to try and get her temp down and she's back on fluids. I noticed just now that she has thick white gunk coming out of her nose.

The vet spoke to Leahurst, who would separate her from the mare and put her on a drip. They said I'd be looking at 2 grand with no guarantee she'd pull through. I tried to add her to my insurance shortly after she was born and was told I couldn't until she was 30 days, and then this was a pre-existing condition so she's not insured. I don't really have 2 grand. I'm absolutely devastated.


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## Amymay (28 June 2012)

Bloody hell.

Have they tested for salmonella??

Has your vet set her up on a drip?


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## TBB (28 June 2012)

Sorry to hear that your foal is bad again, as you say 2 grand is a lot of money to come up with even if they were 100% sure it would work. Do they know what the problem is? (I know its scouring, but do they know the cause?) Has it had a plasma transfusion to try to boost its antibodies? (sorry, having trouble with the computer and can't check if your foal is colt or filly, I don't normally refer to foals as "it") Have the clinic seen the blood results?


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## Alec Swan (28 June 2012)

Re the insurers,  when I enquired about insuring a new born foal,  I was told that it was covered by the mare's insurance.  I can't remember to what age it was covered,  but that's what I was told.

I'm so sorry to hear of your setback.  Awful news for you.

Alec.


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## Lgd (28 June 2012)

Sorry to hear this. Suggest getting your vet to give antibiotics to cover for rhodococcus as respiratory infection combined with scours is often associated with it.

I lost my filly last year to complications from enterocolitis so I know what a horrible position it is to be in. The stud nursed mine through the acute illness and the thing that really helped turn the corner with her was a plasma transfusion from her dam. The late complications were caused by antibiotics kicking off the colitis again when she was 7 weeks old and she perforated her bowel. Thankfully I have a very understanding vet and have paid my bill off in bits.


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## tynedale (28 June 2012)

How can they say it will cost £2000, do they know what it is?
Can treatment not be given at home?
I am so sad for you because you thought you had turned a corner and now this!
I have followed this thread from the start because I was concerned for the little one and you and didn't expect to read this tonight.
Fingers crossed all will be well for your little filly, if I can offer any support or you need someone to talk to just shout!


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## Bojingles (28 June 2012)

I've just had a gruelling couple of hours at Leahurst. The staff there were absolutely marvellous - within minutes there was a full team on her. All sorts of tests were run and her abdomen and chest scanned. She had a bad heart murmur but when they scanned her heart they couldn't see any structural problems. She has pneumonia so is going to have IV antibiotics tonight, along with fluids. Her potassium levels were very low. I know she's in the best place she could be and the vets said they'd do all they could to keep my costs down. 

Thanks again everyone for your support.


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## Bojingles (28 June 2012)

Tynedale, I think the 2k was an estimate based on several days of intensive care.


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## misst (28 June 2012)

I have been following your little ones story and I am keeping my fingers crossed for you. You must be worn out  I hope you vet waives some of his fees for you as it sounds as if he could have been much more proactive some time ago


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## tynedale (28 June 2012)

Thinking of you, fingers crossed for your little one.x


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## eventrider23 (28 June 2012)

Oh I am soo sorry this has gone downhill!!  Everything crossed for you!!!


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## Meandtheboys (28 June 2012)

fingers crossed here and sending lots of vibes that your filly pulls through.........as you say she is in the best place now.


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## Charem (28 June 2012)

Have been following this for a few days since one of ours started scouring.

Everything crossed for your little one x


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## Alec Swan (28 June 2012)

eventrider23 said:



			Has the vet taken a fecal sample to test for anything serious???  Plus bloods? .......
		
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PlanetHacking said:



			I haven't given her anything other than what the vet gave me - I have no experience of foals .......so I went with his advice. He said the Diarsanyl would help firm her up. Not working yet . He didn't take any fecal samples either. I'm going to see her in a bit - I may ring the vet. What could be causing this? Thanks for your reply!
		
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eventrider23 said:



			With foals it can be anything from the absolute simplest such as mum's food too rich or being in season right up to the severe bacterial conditions they can get.  Foals don't have strong stomachs and are very prone to scours and so it can be a wide variety of things causing it.  How old is the foal now??  How long has it been scouring for?  If it has a temperature I am surprised that the vet wouldn't have taken a blood sample at least to see what is going on internally and so I would definitely speak to them if you are on good terms and otherwise if foal is still low tomorrow I would get them out as foals can go downhill soo quickly.
		
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PlanetHacking said:



			She's been scouring on and off for 2 weeks, but it's only the last couple of days that she's started to get a bit depressed. The vet said he wouldn't want to do any more than he did at the moment but I'll see how she is in a minute and call him again if she's still the same.
		
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PlanetHacking said:



			Tynedale, I think the 2k was an estimate based on several days of intensive care.
		
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*AN ESTIMATE?  FFS.*  Just a suggestion for you,  and I'm being serious;  Ask your Vets if they have a suitable insurance policy,  to cover them for professional negligence.

Just read back through your posts,  this,  from what you say,  is a disgrace.

Alec.


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## Amos (28 June 2012)

Alec Swan said:



*AN ESTIMATE?  FFS.*  Just a suggestion for you,  and I'm being serious;  Ask your Vets if they have a suitable insurance policy,  to cover them for professional negligence.

Just read back through your posts,  this,  from what you say,  is a disgrace.

Alec.
		
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I am so sorry to hear that she has gone back down hill. My god I hope you vets are running scared for what they have (or have not) done. Totally agree with Alec. SHOCKING! 

She is obviously in the best place now though and I really hope she pulls through x


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## Bojingles (28 June 2012)

I can't think at the moment about my vets. It should never have been allowed to get to this stage. This morning when a vet came out from the practice (not the original attending vet) I hadn't planned to air my grievances but I was so upset and did so. She wasn't aware of the full history and agreed with me that I had every reason to be upset that tests hadn't been run earlier. 

I then called her a little later to tell her about the nasal discharge and asked if we should continue with antibiotics as she'd nosedived so sharply when she'd come off them. I'm a bit too knackered to go into details but the foal's ended up at Leahurst. A clinical exam within the first 10 minutes revealed a heart murmur that the vet said was so bad he could hear it throughout her abdomen. 

I like the second vet and I think she's thorough, but I suspect she's now "closing ranks", I probably can't blame her; I don't know how she missed the murmur, or whether it actually wasn't there. I don't know. My feeling now is that my vets have served no purpose other than to make her worse, by delaying treatment.


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## Amos (28 June 2012)

You poor thing - a nightmare. I would just concentrate on your foal and getting her better and then worry about the vets later. Best of luck x


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## Lark (28 June 2012)

Oh I am so so sorry to hear that the situation has regressed 
If it were me (and only my opinion) i would probably think about spending a few quid to get some legal advice in light of the veterinary care to date and the consequent requirement to attend a veterinary hospital for emergency care.  

Fingers crossed once more.


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## GT_02 (29 June 2012)

What a nightmare for you :-( So sorry to hear that she's take turn for the worse but she really is in the best place now.  I've everything crossed for a positive outcome for you.


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## Queenbee (29 June 2012)

Omg! I have only just read this thread, op you must be a bag of nerves and scared witless for your little one, I'm glad she is somewhere with a fully dedicated, experienced and competent intensive care team, and I am keeping everything crossed for you. I can only echo what Alec has said re insurance and negligence.


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## tynedale (29 June 2012)

Just checking for updates.
Let us know how the little one is today when you have time.


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## Amymay (29 June 2012)

PlanetHacking said:



			I've just had a gruelling couple of hours at Leahurst. The staff there were absolutely marvellous - within minutes there was a full team on her. All sorts of tests were run and her abdomen and chest scanned. She had a bad heart murmur but when they scanned her heart they couldn't see any structural problems. She has pneumonia so is going to have IV antibiotics tonight, along with fluids. Her potassium levels were very low. I know she's in the best place she could be and the vets said they'd do all they could to keep my costs down. 

Thanks again everyone for your support.
		
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I'm so glad to read this.  And will look for updates later on.

Yet another reason why your bloomin vet should be shot!  Poor little scrap.

EDT:  Also second Alec, and ensuring the vet has a good insurance policy (although they will).  I would be chasing them for every penny of the treatment at Leahurst!


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## widget (29 June 2012)

Hope the foaly has picked up over night x


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## hayinamanger (29 June 2012)

I am so very sorry that you and your foal are having to go through this terrible ordeal.  I hope to hear better news today.

Wholeheartedly agree with Alec, the practice must take responsibility for the way this case has been handled from the first call out.


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## Beans1 (29 June 2012)

Fingers tightly crossed for you and your little lady....

Another one agreeing with Alec, do you have BHS membership?  May be worth a quick call to their legal branch to see where you stand, I am sure they will have experienced similar before.


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## Maesfen (29 June 2012)

At the chance of sounding like a sheep, I completely agree with Alec too.  You and your foal have been treated very badly right from the start.  I'd be very interested in knowing which vet or practice this was as I know you're reasonably close enough to Leahurst to have been referred there and I'd hate to have him/her landing on my doorstep if they don't know what they're doing; that might have to be by PM though to be on the safe side!


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## meesha (29 June 2012)

What a horrible and probably unnecessary thing for you both to have to go through.  Sending vibes for little foaly and hoping to see some good news soon.

Just to echo everyone else - once you are through this you need to be looking to the vet in question for all costs (keep phone bills etc to show you have rung each day and a record of your conversations if possible) also worth keeping a copy of your posts on here which show your concerns.


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## AnShanDan (29 June 2012)

I've also been following this thread and hoping for the best.

I have to say, that all along I thought the foal would be better at the vet school/hospital. So, I'm really glad that they are there now.

Re. your own vets and the costs, you are bound to have grounds to claim against their prof. indemnity insurance. Don't worry about it just now, but as everyone has said, keep everything you think might be relevant. The vets will close ranks, that's inevitable, but it sounds like you have an excellent case.

Hope to hear that the intensive care is working.


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## Lgd (29 June 2012)

Fingers crossed for foalie. Stolensilver on here had a foal that Leahurst saved - she had botulism and they got her through it and she finished up a healthy horse.


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## Bojingles (29 June 2012)

I've spoken to Leahurst and the news isn't great. She's stable but hasn't responded to the treatment as they'd hoped she would - her electrolytes are still really low and the vet said they're going to treat her more aggressively today. She's very concerned that the foal hasn't picked up and is still so depressed. I'm going to see her this afternoon, will post with any news. On the bright side the vet did say she didn't think it was time to give up yet. This is all so awful, I can hardly believe it.


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## Amymay (29 June 2012)

Thanks for updating us.  I'm sorry that at this stage it's not better news.

Have absolutely everything crossed for you xx


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## Victoria25 (29 June 2012)

Just read this post at work and Im nearly in tears for you ... cant offer any advice but hope to god she pulls through xxx


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## domane (29 June 2012)

Gosh, this is so awful.  We are ALL rooting for your little fighter of a filly.  Now is not the time to be thinking about compensation but certainly there is finger of fault to be pointed at some stage....

Hugs xxxx


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## tynedale (29 June 2012)

Thinking of you, let's all hope your filly picks up very soon for you.


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## oldywoldy (29 June 2012)

Very sorry to hear about the dramas with your foal.  Your vet needs shooting and I hope you seriously take them to task over it.  Thoughts are with you - she is a little toughy and hopefully that will pull her through - it is so important to treat foals with any problems early they can go downhill so fast and your vet did you no favours.


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## Bojingles (29 June 2012)

My foal didn't make it. Shortly before I arrived at Leahurst she collapsed. The vets said they'd been treating her really aggressively and she was only getting worse. They said there was nothing more they could do and they were simply keeping her going by pumping in fluids. Even with constant replenishment her potassium levels were so low they couldn't believe she was still alive. The vets there are marvellous, I know they did everything possible and were running tests the whole time she was there. I took the decision to put her to sleep this afternoon rather than prolonging her suffering. I'm absolutely heartbroken.


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## meesha (29 June 2012)

so very very sorry to hear you have lost her, you have done everything you could for her including letting her go when it was time.

((Hugs))


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## Nettle123 (29 June 2012)

So very sorry to hear this.


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## Sarah Sum1 (29 June 2012)

Oh no  I am so very sorry to read this.  

xx


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## Miss L Toe (29 June 2012)

So sorry, you did all you could, nobody could have done more [hugs] That's really awful.


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## Amos (29 June 2012)

Very, very sorry to hear this. Such a sad situation. My heart goes out to you...


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## Amymay (29 June 2012)

Devastated for you. I am so, so sorry.


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## Charem (29 June 2012)

So sorry to hear this, I was really hoping she would pull through 

You've done everything you could for her. RIP little one x


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## hayinamanger (29 June 2012)

Heartbreaking news, I am so very sorry.


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## Maesfen (29 June 2012)

I can't tell you how sorry I am for you after your desperate time.  Your original vet has an awful lot to answer for; I hope you get justice for your filly.


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## Lgd (29 June 2012)

(((Hugs))) So sorry to hear this.


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## Alec Swan (29 June 2012)

After your honesty,  dedication and your displayed ethics,  I just don't know what to say to you.  "I'm so sorry" seems so inadequate,  but there's nothing else to say.  Huge hugs.
a.

ps.  Tomorrow I shall PM you. a.


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## eventrider23 (29 June 2012)

Oh I am so so sorry to read this.  I have gone through something very very similar recently and lost a very much adored filly (not through poor vet care I must ad) and it is so heartbreaking.  Huge sympathy goes out to you.  You did everything you could for her right up to the very end in making that tough decision. ((hugs))


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## domane (29 June 2012)

Oh I am SO sorry to read this.  Such a tragedy and you tried so very hard for her.  No-one can fault your care or concern.  I'm a so upset for you xxx


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## MileAMinute (29 June 2012)

Oh I'm so sorry 

It's clear from your posts on here that you've worked damn hard to keep that foal going, and you did so well.

I'd certainly be demanding an explanation from your vets, when you feel up to it.

RIP little foalie xxx


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## tynedale (29 June 2012)

Oh no!
You tried so hard for her    I don't know what else to say.
Stay strong.x


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## Asha (29 June 2012)

Such sad news, you couldnt have done anymore for her. Take care x


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## misst (29 June 2012)

Just logged on hoping for good news 
I would also like to say how very very sorry I am that you lost your little one and that I am sure you could not have done more. RIP little foal x


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## Lark (29 June 2012)

So desperately sorry to hear such sad news.  Heartbreaking.  I really really really hoped she would make it.
You went above and beyond in trying to do what was best and unfortunately the professionals failed you.
I wish you all the very best of luck in the future.


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## Queenbee (29 June 2012)

I can understand some of what you are going through, you gave you're absolute all for your little filly, I'm truly sorry that you have lost her xxx there aren't any words that can console you at this time but I can say... Let the tears flow and go and have some time holding onto your mare, absolutely no consolation, but it will help a bit and she will need you to be strong for her xxxx


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## TBB (30 June 2012)

so sorry to hear your news.


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## AnShanDan (30 June 2012)

Very, very sorry to hear this, but you have done everything anyone could have.


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## angrovestud (30 June 2012)

I am so sorry for your loss of your little one, but I do hope you take others advice and take the vets to task when you are feeling stronger. my thoughts are with you (((hugs)))


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## dressagecrazy (30 June 2012)

I've been following this thread since the start & even though I didn't post I was really hoping your foal would be ok.

I'm heartbroken for you, having been on the recieving end of unbelievably poor vet care 5 years ago,my heart goes out to you.


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## Bojingles (30 June 2012)

Thank you everyone so much for your kind words. I'm really devastated, it doesn't even feel real. It feels wrong, and I think she was failed. We collected the mare today, luckily she is incredibly laid back and doesn't seem at all traumatised by what's happened. She'll have a little holiday then we'll resume plodding around the lanes. 

The vet hospital are going to do a post mortem. I want to know what went wrong but at the same time feel that, irrespective of the specific cause of her illness, she was badly let down by the standard of care and delay in testing. I pride myself on how I look after my animals, no in fact that isn't even true, it just goes without saying; you do your best at all times. She was badly let down and that's something I'll have to deal with. When I've calmed down a bit I'll be considering my next move. I can't imagine that the original vet could have a rigorously defensible reason for not at least testing her right at the beginning when she was already quite poorly.

Sorry, I've had some wine and am rambling but would like to thank you all again for your support.


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## widget (1 July 2012)

Awful news, I'm sorry for your loss run free foal x


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