# My new horse keeps putting it's head down



## prettypony12 (10 August 2015)

Recently I've bought a new horse. We've had a few lessons and we're all ready falling out. What he does is in canter or trot he puts his head down right between his legs. He doesn't buck usually but it's impossible. I don't really want to use grass Reins or daisy Reins. It might be his bridle it's a grackle and I'm going to go back to basics and get him a flash bridle. He's had me off a few times and now he just knows he can get me off. I'm to weary to do anything else with him, he's already hurt me and truefully I'm getting sick of it. He's 16 and it's not his saddle. Any tips to keep his head up? thanks


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## epeters91 (10 August 2015)

Have you had his teeth checked? If he's had his teeth, back, bridle and saddle checked then I would ask your instructor what they suggest as they have seen him do it and will know what's the best way to get over it. Is he heavy in your hands when he does it like he's leaning on the bit? 

He could be trying it on but best to rule out it's not a bit or teeth problem first x


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## prettypony12 (10 August 2015)

He's had his teeth done in December, which in fact was 8 months ago. I've checked his back and felt it and he didn't seem to flinch. According to his old owners he's always seen to do it. Even without tack. I wouldn't say he is heavy in my hand. I think when he just has egnoth he just puts his head down. My instructor to me is making him worse. He has a tomb thumb bit and she said out it on the bottom hole. He didn't like it, she also said give him bute? . His previous owner went through a bit stage trying all bits known to man from hackamore's to Dutch gags, snaffles etc. He was bought to proggres me but he's just making me worse. I'm worried if I compete on him he's going to get me off and I'll be humiliatded. I think it's just a habbit he's been in for a while. I think I just need to stay on and shoe him it doesn't work hahha. He did it once and succeeded now he does it all the time.


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## thewonderhorse (10 August 2015)

prettypony12 said:



			He's had his teeth done in December, which in fact was 8 months ago. I've checked his back and felt it and he didn't seem to flinch. According to his old owners he's always seen to do it. Even without tack. I wouldn't say he is heavy in my hand. I think when he just has egnoth he just puts his head down. My instructor to me is making him worse. He has a tomb thumb bit and she said out it on the bottom hole. He didn't like it, she also said give him bute? . His previous owner went through a bit stage trying all bits known to man from hackamore's to Dutch gags, snaffles etc. He was bought to proggres me but he's just making me worse. I'm worried if I compete on him he's going to get me off and I'll be humiliatded. I think it's just a habbit he's been in for a while. I think I just need to stay on and shoe him it doesn't work hahha. He did it once and succeeded now he does it all the time.
		
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There's a big difference between you 'checking his back' to a professional checking him.


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## epeters91 (10 August 2015)

I agree get a proffessional to check his back, get the dentist to check his teeth and get a second opinion from another instructor (yours sounds terrible if they are suggesting to bute him to stop it! This also makes it seem like it's a pain issue if that is her suggestion)

Just because he's done it previously doesn't mean there isn't a cause behind it especially if they have just changed bits rather than look into why he was doing it. Maybe get his tack checked too to make sure there is no issue there. 

Did the old owner tell you he did this when you bought him? Did you have him on trial at all? Sounds like your taking a dislike to him so just a little curious about why you chose him in the first place x


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## Exploding Chestnuts (10 August 2015)

There  is a gadget for lunging which runs from the bit thru the leg and over the wither to the leg and back to the other bit ring. You use this to get the muscles forming correctly, and the horse is unable to drop head completely, this is not what you asked, but I think you need to install respect and form the correct musculature. Lunging is a skill which needs to be taught unless horse is willing, and I suspect he may not be willing.
You need to get your confidence back and alter the dynamics, the idea is to enjoy your horse, not to fight a losing battle.
You can try bridging the reins which effectively locks them so he can't stretch down.


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## Barnacle (10 August 2015)

Get a VET to check him over. If he does this without tack, it is not behavioral or evasive and will be a health issue. Of course his previous owners may have been talking out of their backsides.

It's extremely common for an experienced schoolmaster type to learn that he can throw people by ducking his head... All you need to do is lean back and push him forward. What is your level of experience? you may need someone more capable to ride him a few times so you can see if he keeps doing this with them. Usually after being corrected once, horses that do this stop bothering with that rider because they understand they are more experienced. 

I'd also put him in a French link bit to see how he goes. No grackle


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## prettypony12 (10 August 2015)

The owner did say he did this but I didn't realise how bad he was. I tried him out and he never did it. I've just had no luck with any horse I've purshased. I was almost affended when she said bute him! Ill definitely look further into getting his back checked. I never trialed him because he seemed sound. I've just had nothing but bad luck with him and he's wrecking my confidence. Just a little weary in case his back is the problem and the worse comes to the worse.


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## prettypony12 (10 August 2015)

He needs rollers on his bit as he has a very large tounge he's a strong horse and I struggle to pull him up.  I'd say I'm a competent novice. He was bought as an anyone's ride. It's impossible to stay on him.


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## prettypony12 (10 August 2015)

With a snaffle he's hard to pull up ^


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## epeters91 (10 August 2015)

best of luck to you hope you get to the bottom of it and get past this rough time. In a few years you may be looking back and laughing at how much trouble he used to be compared to how great you get on  xx


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## Pearlsasinger (10 August 2015)

prettypony12 said:



			He needs rollers on his bit as he has a very large tounge he's a strong horse and I struggle to pull him up.  I'd say I'm a competent novice. He was bought as an anyone's ride. It's impossible to stay on him.
		
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Horses with a  very large tongue generally prefer a thinner bit.  I would get rid of the grackle and NOT put a flash or drop-noseband on him either.  If he opens his mouth it's because his mouth is uncomfortable.  Definitely get his teeth checked, if it's been 8 months since his last check.  Even the most placid, easy horse can prove difficult if they are uncomfortable.  When his teeth are sorted have his back checked by a vet and if no problems are found have his saddle checked for a correct fit.
Then I suggest a different RI.  Good luck!


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## prettypony12 (10 August 2015)

I think it could be his teeth, I tracked his old owners and the had a snaffle no flash, instead


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## prettypony12 (10 August 2015)

Haha he's I probably will be looking back, thanks for the help you've raised my hopes x


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## Exploding Chestnuts (10 August 2015)

prettypony12 said:



			He needs rollers on his bit as he has a very large tounge he's a strong horse and I struggle to pull him up.  I'd say I'm a competent novice. He was bought as an anyone's ride. It's impossible to stay on him.
		
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All my life I have never heard of anyone suggesting that bute remedy, is this person a qualified instructor and taking money from you?
It is not impossible to stay on him, lets face it when you graze from the saddle most people would stay on board. Don't let him put his head down. If he is too much for you and you can't sort it,  best to sell him and get something more suitable.


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## sasquatch (10 August 2015)

My horse got into a habit of going canter - halt - drop head, neck and shoulder - spin inwards to throw off rider. 

It turns out he had a very bad fitting saddle. He had never shown any complaint before, and was jumping and in work. At first, it looked like he was spooking, then my instructor advised us to change from an elastic girth as she thought it was pinching him where the elastic was in two strands. Problem subsided for a while, and came back much worse.

The spins were entirely unpredictable, and going from a fast canter to a stop when the head, neck and shoulder were dropped and he turned inwards sent you straight over his shoulder. I fell off and broke my wrist due to a spin after a jump. I could sit them in trot, but not in canter. Due to knowing him as a horse who likes to test a rider, at first it was thought that he was just taking the mick and had discovered if he did this, I would come off (after we had initially ruled out back and dental pain - he was in a snaffle)

He was later fitted with a new saddle, and the unpredictable spin has only made a return when he is feeling particularly naughty (definitely not pain related at all) or is fresh and excited. The last time he did it was when I gave him his head to stretch down after schooling work he found hard, as soon as he was given a longer rein he went 'I'm off' and took himself to wait by the gate so he could go and get his dinner. 

The saddle wasn't checked at first as he'd never shown any complaint before, and his back was looked at and there was nothing wrong. The problem was the saddle was too tight on his shoulders, causing pinching, and when he was pinched, he spun. My instructors original idea about girth pinching wasn't too far off, and back person said nothing was wrong (we also got him checked with new saddle - and she said there was nothing wrong as well. The new saddle was fitted to him by a saddler, and in future I will be making sure any new horse gets their tack checked) 

You need a new instructor. If you're losing confidence, then there's something not right and the instructor doesn't seem to know how to help. Get the saddler out, and get teeth and back checked. He may also have learnt by dropping his head he can throw a more inexperienced rider off and get out of work, or that dropping his head is a way to avoid bit pressure. I would change him out of the tom thumb into something much softer, and see if that makes a difference after his teeth have been checked.

How old is your horse? And what type/breed is he?
OP, strong horses aren't always suitable for competent novices, and it does sound like he may be too much for you or he may be learning he can get away with things with you that before he wasn't able too.


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## Barnacle (11 August 2015)

I just want to jump in and defend the instructor concerning the bute... I'm not absolutely sure that this is the case as I have no idea who the OP is or who their instructor is etc etc, but I suspect they were NOT saying, give the horse bute to mask the problem. It is perfectly usual - and often suggested by vets - to put a horse on a "bute trial". This is when you put a horse on bute for a few days and see if the unwanted behaviour/lameness/whatever stops. If it does, you know for a fact that it's pain-related and can proceed to try and identify the source of the issue. I very strongly suspect THIS is what the instructor was suggesting and the OP simply misunderstood the intention.

Word of warning, if you do put the horse on a bute trial and the behaviour does NOT stop, it still doesn't rule out pain. Some pain is severe enough that bute won't affect it. But a bute trial is one way to confirm that pain is definitely the cause, even though it cannot rule it out.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (11 August 2015)

If the animal needs to be assessed and put on a bute trial this should be done by a qualified vet, the assessment is essential, the bute may or may not be required, it is unlikely to be the way forward.


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## britisheventer (11 August 2015)

My horse did this and it was pain through the back, he had a sacroliac injury, which is not visible (pelvic). Does he have any lumps along his spine? Does he not stand on all fours? Rest one foot on the ground? Does he do it in canter? If there is no pain, everytime he does it dig your heels in and pull his head up, he has to bring his head up to balance himself in order to go foward hope this helps


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## prettypony12 (19 August 2015)

Bonkers2 said:



			All my life I have never heard of anyone suggesting that bute remedy, is this person a qualified instructor and taking money from you?
It is not impossible to stay on him, lets face it when you graze from the saddle most people would stay on board. Don't let him put his head down. If he is too much for you and you can't sort it,  best to sell him and get something more suitable.
		
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Excuse me you don't have any ideas what he's like. I've sat bucks, rears, cat leaps, GRAZING horses. His is completely different he puts his head between his legs snatching the Reins of and buck like crazy. It's unexpected and when you ride him you must ride him with short Reins so it's hard staying on. Unfortunately Im not selling him, I can't just get a new horse like that. I'll work with him. He's 16 he's used the trick. The instructors owns a riding school so..
She's qualified and what's it to you.


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## Barnacle (19 August 2015)

prettypony12 said:



			Excuse me you don't have any ideas what he's like. I've sat bucks, rears, cat leaps, GRAZING horses. His is completely different he puts his head between his legs snatching the Reins of and buck like crazy. It's unexpected and when you ride him you must ride him with short Reins so it's hard staying on. Unfortunately Im not selling him, I can't just get a new horse like that. I'll work with him. He's 16 he's used the trick. The instructors owns a riding school so..
She's qualified and what's it to you.
		
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Huh? This is the first mention that he doesn't just put his head down but also "bucks like crazy". What does the horse actually do? And what do you do about it?


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## nato (20 August 2015)

prettypony12 said:



			Excuse me you don't have any ideas what he's like. I've sat bucks, rears, cat leaps, GRAZING horses. His is completely different he puts his head between his legs snatching the Reins of and buck like crazy. It's unexpected and when you ride him you must ride him with short Reins so it's hard staying on. Unfortunately Im not selling him, I can't just get a new horse like that. I'll work with him. He's 16 he's used the trick. The instructors owns a riding school so..
She's qualified and what's it to you.
		
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You specifically said in your first post he doesn't buck at all?

You originally said yourself that your instructors advice didn't sit right with you - now you're defending her? "What it is" to the poster is you asked for advice and you're getting it. 

Seriously - get your horses back and teeth checked. 8 months is a long time if a horse has problems with its teeth, my horse has ETR and is being seen to every 4 months at the moment. If a horse is doing the same behaviour without tack then it is not behavioural he is in some sort of pain or discomfort and is trying to tell you. At the age of 16 he is not a spring chicken and needs to be taken care as he's more susceptible to problems at his age.


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