# advice on mare size to stallion size please.



## Deraden (17 March 2012)

Does anyone have any advise/experiance on what the min. mare height should be to a 16.2/17 stallion. I already breed ponies but i like the idea of having a welsh section c mare (so would be approx. 13.2) to put to sports horse stallions. All my breeding stock is the same height give or take a few inches so was wondering if anyone knows more about breeding with such a height difference (would the mare cope with a potentially larger than average foal from her own breed). I would be expecting the foals to make approx 15 to 15.2 so do pple also think there is a market for this size of horse. Thank you!


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## Alexart (17 March 2012)

Personally I wouldn't go more than a couple of hands difference at the very most, although it is the size of the mares uterus which determines the size of the foal.  What I would be more concerned with is how chunky the stallion is compared to the mare and wether the foals he throws tend to be chunkier, also if the mare is a maiden then I'd put her with a similar size and type for her first foal.  I have bred a friesian to a fell - the mare was 13.2 and the stally 16.2 - however the mare was a very well proven 17yr old broody, was built like the proverbial outhouse and my stally although very chunky throws very refined little foals that chunk up later, otherwise I would not have even considered it!, the resultant foal ended up at 15.1Hh and looked like a large chunky hairy fell which was what the owner wanted - so alot of variables to be considered.

Height wise crossing a pony with a larger horse does not mean you will get something in the middle, it can take after either parent, so could be pony sized, or be way taller than both, I put a 15.2 TB to my 16.2 friesian and got a 17.2 horse so not an exact science!!!  Also crossing very different heights and types can result in the offspring looking like a cut and shut - you could get the body of a WB with the legs and head of a pony - it does happen and they are awful and pretty much useless for what they were intended for!!

If I were you and you think this is the route for you I would be looking at sport ponies to cross to welsh ponies if that is the type you are after - they have the look and everything a WB is but in a smaller package and be more likely to get a well proportioned foal and more likely to be the height you are after - just a thought!

Is there a market - probably not as the foal height could be way over or under what is expected if you cross to the larger horse, but especially at the moment as the market is not great - it also depends on the quality of your stock and how long you are prepared to wait until the first results of your breeding program are out competing and doing well - so 10 yrs really to see if there is a demand and to prove that your ponies are doing the job you intended, rather than just selling a random crossbred pony.  So you need to be prepared to keep all you breed and either invest in it until 4 then sell - which you never get back the money you put in and are still not guaranteed to sell even then - so if you're looking at it as a money making idea then I'd say no - horses don't make money they make everyone else money!!!!  And regardless of how expensive and well known the sire, the dam needs to be equally well bred to get the best chance of ending up in the sort of homes where people are willing to invest to get the pony to the levels you want to then be your advertising - it's along slog and very expensive!!!


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## Deraden (17 March 2012)

Hi Alexart thanks for the reply, yeh breeding is a mine field! One of the main reasons i was going for the welsh mare was so i had a mare that was low maintanance in the way of being able to live out and not rely heavily on extra hard feed and the 'plan' would be to put her in foal every other year so as not to over stock myself too quickly! Fortunatly i do have my own yard thats set up for breeding (i breed and show shetlands at the mo, hence why im asking for advice as using more varied breeds and sizes could raise issues/problems that i have not experianced with the shets). 
My reason behind looking into this idea is that i have had to make the hard decision to have my two retired riding horses, a cob and a thoroughbred, pts before next winter. I still want to be involved with 'biggies' but i find i am much more interested in the breeding side than riding now.
Money wise the only thing i would like is if when i sold one of the youngsters it could pay for my hay for the winter. 
Thanks for the advice given me lots more to think about!


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## Cherrygarden (17 March 2012)

Woodlander on here had a lovely foal out of a sec C by one of her boys last year(big sports horses) did very well at the futurity, does not look cut and shut. My daughter has a sec C we have bred to our should be a horse but is a pony sports pony and got foals I am very pleased with and which are admired. Several of the sports pony breeders have used stallions like Sarkozy, Mooiman etc and it has been popular for years on the continent to put larger stallions on native mares. Whether or not they sell depends on whether all the people who claim to want that elusive 15/15.2 dressage horse are actually prepared to buy it when it becomes available but you might need to breed and keep a flagship model and use popular, marketable stallions.


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## lucydelaroche (17 March 2012)

I am using Lauriston in my sports pony breeding program & in 2010 used him (via AI obviously!) on my 128cm part bred Sec B mare.  I am very pleased with the resulting colt & the mare is back in foal to Lauriston for a 2012 full sibling (fingers crossed for a filly!!). I am retaining the 2011 colt entire as he should stay under the elusive 148cm & he can definitely jump!! 

This is him & before anyone pushes any buttons he is definitely NOT FOR SALE! 
www.delarochestud.co.uk/DLREndeavour.html


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## Deraden (17 March 2012)

Thanks for all the breeding info pple will do some research into them about what traits they pass on and what their produce is like to different types of mares!
Lucydelaroche you have some lovely ggs! I really like Brillanz, i think his sort of stamp is what i would be hoping to achieve! x


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