# Thermal imaging -  opinions good or bad?



## swellhillcottage (31 July 2015)

I am having this done on my pone tomorrow - he is slightly sore  behind but not enough on the workup to  pinpoint issue and as we have no other clues I thought I would give this a try - Vet was sceptical as his problem "appears" to be high up  which could all be in-bedded in deeper tissue and that would not show up on the camera - I feel it is a good idea but after reading negative comments on TE I wondered if anyone had experiences good or bad on here 
TIA


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## PorkChop (31 July 2015)

All positive from me - however, it obviously depends hugely on the operator - I used Roger Meacock who is a Vet.

I used it more as a tool for getting as much information as possible to keep the horses well, not to pinpoint injury.


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## Roody2 (31 July 2015)

Not had it done on my horse, but did have a physio come and use it on my dog who had unexplained forelimb lameness which the vets couldn't find any cause for. Turned out to be a torn pectoral muscle which showed up as a white patch. Interestingly she had had a major operation in the chest area about 8 months previously, I told the physio about this before she scanned and she told me we would likely see a cold spot over the scarring, lo and behold when scanned the 4" scar showed up as a blue stripe!


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## philamena (31 July 2015)

It's all in the skill of the technician IME. I have found it useful for exactly what you describe, pinpointing or guiding towards areas which may be having some kind of inflammatory or circulatory response and monitoring effects of treatment. But a poor technician who doesn't manage the environment can achieve false positives. Horse needs a good spell acclimatising in stable with no direct or reflected sun, beware metal walls or roofs ,skylights etc. No rugging or grooming for several hours before. But definitely worth trying when you're scratching your head so sounds like a good call in your circs...


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## tallywhacker (31 July 2015)

I think thermal imaging is a good idea. However for me i think you would need a normal scan to compare it too? So one before there was lameness etc? If that makes sense?


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## philamena (1 August 2015)

Not necessarily - if you have a specific area of inflammation ,injury or trauma it's about comparing that location on the leg (or wherever) with the tissue around it, reading "through" any normal variations you'd expect given natural variations in hair thickness, muscle thickness, etc which would lead to normaul variations in surface temperature.


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## Pebble101 (1 August 2015)

Has anyone seen the one that attaches to your mobile phone?  I saw it at Hickstead and was very tempted but decided that I would just scare myself silly with lots of imaginary problems.


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## philamena (1 August 2015)

Have had a look at them. Think their usefulness would be relatively limited as they can't achieve the sensitivity of a proper camera (and the photos do look less sophisticated) so I wouldn't rely on them for anything complex. But maybe for spotting bruises ,thorns, bites ,rubs or saddle pressure points. Biggest risk I think is ,as you say, developing Munchausen's By Proxy and worrying endlessly about false positives.


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## Stressagelover (1 August 2015)

We asked about Thermal Imaging before going down the bone scan route . Our vet didnt recommed it for a serous problem as others have said they can be vague or senstive so may not concentrate on the area which is actually causing the problems


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## philamena (1 August 2015)

Yep not an alternative to bone scans really. More a methos of identifying poss locations of source of pain when you're scratching your head.


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## BBP (2 August 2015)

Informative tool but not a diagnostic one. It did who up inflammation over sacroiliac which was later bone scanned and medicated. The after photos now show a dramatic improvement so helps me to know I'm on the right track with rehab. I also got it done this week for what I believe is a horse headache - see my horsey headaches thread in vet section for photos. I really rate it based on my own experience, it helps me visualise what is happening.


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## philamena (3 August 2015)

How did you get on, OP?


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## lori ann (3 August 2015)

LJR said:



			All positive from me - however, it obviously depends hugely on the operator - I used Roger Meacock who is a Vet.

I used it more as a tool for getting as much information as possible to keep the horses well, not to pinpoint injury.
		
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Is Roger Meacock still around his name came up a lot re Proximal Suspensory Desmitis


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## fburton (3 August 2015)

Another, though more expensive option (because it involves radioisotope and a more sophisticated camera) is nuclear scintigraphy. It's good for differentiating between bone and soft tissue damage. Whether or not it's worthwhile going down that route would depend on previous examination, history of lameness and any thermal camera result.

Scintigraphy was invaluable in diagnosing a deep pulled muscle in my TB's hindquarters. If I hadn't known this, I would not have committed to the extended (several months) rest that was needed for it to heal fully.


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## ycbm (3 August 2015)

fburton said:



			Another, though more expensive option (because it involves radioisotope and a more sophisticated camera) is nuclear scintigraphy. It's good for differentiating between bone and soft tissue damage. Whether or not it's worthwhile going down that route would depend on previous examination, history of lameness and any thermal camera result.

Scintigraphy was invaluable in diagnosing a deep pulled muscle in my TB's hindquarters. If I hadn't known this, I would not have committed to the extended (several months) rest that was needed for it to heal fully.
		
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It also costs £1200 !!!

Uninsured, I'd chuck a horse in the field for three to six months before I'd spend that kind of money, personally.


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## Lanky Loll (3 August 2015)

lori ann said:



			Is Roger Meacock still around his name came up a lot re Proximal Suspensory Desmitis
		
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Yes Roger is still around  he's based in Wiltshire


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## fburton (3 August 2015)

ycbm said:



			It also costs £1200 !!!

Uninsured, I'd chuck a horse in the field for three to six months before I'd spend that kind of money, personally.
		
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Ah, is that how much it is now? Gulp! I got mine done for free in 1993.


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## philamena (3 August 2015)

lori ann said:



			Is Roger Meacock still around his name came up a lot re Proximal Suspensory Desmitis
		
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Yep very much so. Based Swindon way and travels.


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## swellhillcottage (3 August 2015)

philamena said:



			How did you get on, OP?
		
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Very, very interesting to say the least! It didn't show anything to scary but it did hopefully  pinpoint the hind end niggle which looks like some sort of muscular issue on what I suppose is his right buttock almost hamstring area so it looks like the physio will be getting a call  also it pinpointed asymmetric hocks which we knew was a potential issue but the real light bulb interesting bit was the images after his lunging ( more me being lunged really as I have to chase him so much) any way after his lunging it seems his whole body showed abnormal high temperature  and after some discussion with Elaine ( thermographer) I realised that him not ever sweating after work and him panting  a lot and him being extremely lethargic  was not him being a lazy so and so,  it was actually part of a bigger picture which hasn't been discussed yet with veterinary but looks like he may have some sort of Anhidrosis  - I am going to have his bloods checked to make sure there is nothing going on , he has had the Cushings test which came back negative.  So yes it seems it may have been a worthwhile call. The Lady was lovely and very thorough and patient as it took over 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon, and as I was potentially travelling 3 hours the next morning to pick up a saddle for him  she then that evening took the time to briefly go over the images (120 of them) and outline what was going on with him so as not for me to make a wasted journey  in case something in my expected problem area was seriously amiss, so all in all a good experience and I would recommend - £90 for photography plus petrol at £14 so not too bad  If anyone interested in her details please pm me - we are Glos/Oxon


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## fburton (3 August 2015)

Not too bad at all, swellhillcottage. Interesting results indeed.


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## philamena (3 August 2015)

How interesting - esp on the heat and lethargy issues!


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## Lanky Loll (3 August 2015)

Glad to hear you found it useful  How are you getting on with his feet issues?


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## swellhillcottage (3 August 2015)

Lanky Loll said:



			Glad to hear you found it useful  How are you getting on with his feet issues?
		
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That's another story and still on-going and another reason for the thermography  but it seems the diagnosed navicular syndrome was low grade lami - he is now out of bar shoes and seems ok but I am taking one day at a time with him - it seems I have purchased Mr Sensitive 2015


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## Lanky Loll (3 August 2015)

Seems you did indeed! Hopefully low grade lami will prove simpler in the long run to manage than the navicular though!


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## swellhillcottage (3 August 2015)

Lanky Loll said:



			Seems you did indeed! Hopefully low grade lami will prove simpler in the long run to manage than the navicular though!
		
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but fingers X we are getting back on track and agreed re the Lami but still early days yet


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## Pebble101 (3 August 2015)

swellhillcottage said:



			That's another story and still on-going and another reason for the thermography  but it seems the diagnosed navicular syndrome was low grade lami - he is now out of bar shoes and seems ok but I am taking one day at a time with him - it seems I have purchased Mr Sensitive 2015 

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Did the thermal imaging show the laminitis then?


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## swellhillcottage (3 August 2015)

Pebble101 said:



			Did the thermal imaging show the laminitis then?
		
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Nope the feet were normal on the imaging - he was put in bar shoes approx. 8 weeks ago after being diagnosed with palma heel pain and 2 days post bar shoes he went down with lami  - which in hindsight was possibly what was wrong all along - I don't know tbh but he did the  round of bar shoes and treated as a lami case and he is now back in normal shoes with the plan to try and go barefoot after this set of shoes - but who knows he is a tricky one  but he is 95% better  in front. So we will do the physio to see if we can free up that hind end and keep him gently ticking over and see what we have got  if he weren't such a good doer I would turn him away but he would no doubt be at risk of a lamintis bout if I didn't keep him moving


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## TPO (3 August 2015)

Glad that you've got something to go off. It sounds like you've got a plan.

Good luck


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## swellhillcottage (4 August 2015)

TPO said:



			Glad that you've got something to go off. It sounds like you've got a plan.

Good luck 

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Hmm plans and horses TPO do they ever work?  but yes we sort of have a plan and thank you - he is only young and I hope will outgrow this sensitiveness as he is a full Connemara I thought they were rock hard!


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