# Horseriders Against Hunting FB Group



## combat_claire (26 April 2012)

https://www.facebook.com/horseriders.against.hunting

Check out the utter nonsense that is being spouted on this page. My calm and polite defence of stag hunting practices was deleted and I have now been banned!!


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## redredruby (26 April 2012)

I saw this and thought it rather hysterical and possibly factually inaccurate (and I say this as someone who would only go drag hunting)


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## combat_claire (26 April 2012)

They seem to be against any activity where a horse breaks sweat...no doubt only a matter of time before they pick up on the cruelty of drag hunts to socks on ropes!!


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## Luci07 (26 April 2012)

Having seen a husky race picketed as cruel....nothing surprises me!


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## ClassicG&T (26 April 2012)

I have never hunted before, parents won''t allow it.

But some of those photos are awful, im all for shooting the fox there and then, but not making it run for it's life.


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## lizziebinks (26 April 2012)

I cannot even bring myself to open the link - would do untold damage to my blood pressure reading what those antis waffle on about. There is also no point trying to debate with the wilfully ignorant or genetically stupid. Gets you nowhere. Hence why I no longer bother.


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## redredruby (26 April 2012)

combat_claire said:



			They seem to be against any activity where a horse breaks sweat...no doubt only a matter of time before they pick up on the cruelty of drag hunts to socks on ropes!!
		
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Quite! I agree they seem to be rather indiscriminate in what they think is cruel, anything to do with using a saddle / bridle appears to be rather frowned upon. 

Frustrating as it is there really is no point engaging because they do seem rather dogmatic.


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## mandwhy (26 April 2012)

I am doing a Zoology degree and am therefore confronted with animal rights people all the time. Obviously I like and respect animals or I wouldn't be doing the degree, but it makes me mad how ill-informed they invariably are and how they jump on any old emotional bandwagon with horrific pictures and they get into my Facebook newsfeed! 

redredruby I would only go drag hunting too really. So what's the deal with hunting now then? I thought you couldn't really do any hunting apart from a drag hunt, is this true? I notice not all hunts are called a drag hunt?


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## lizziebinks (26 April 2012)

mandwhy said:



			I am doing a Zoology degree and am therefore confronted with animal rights people all the time. Obviously I like and respect animals or I wouldn't be doing the degree, but it makes me mad how ill-informed they invariably are and how they jump on any old emotional bandwagon with horrific pictures and they get into my Facebook newsfeed! 

redredruby I would only go drag hunting too really. So what's the deal with hunting now then? I thought you couldn't really do any hunting apart from a drag hunt, is this true? I notice not all hunts are called a drag hunt?
		
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Pre 2005 ban - you had real hunts (hunting animals) and drag (hunting a human-laid scent). Post ban, these hunts did not change their name but of course, they have changed their activities. However, it should not noted that not all hunts post-ban offer the same sport. Drag hunts have always been bloody fast and without let-up. Post ban, many traditional hunts try to offer sport that replicates the nature of 'real' hunting. So they would include the holloaring, the standing on point, the standing around, the chatting (!) whereas drag is all about the whizzing round the jumps/land!


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## mandwhy (26 April 2012)

Oh I would love to try it, looks great fun! Current horsey loves to tank off when out with one other horse, so I suspect a whole bunch of horses might blow her mind a bit! I am also a scaredy cat when it comes to jumping, one day I will go!


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## marmalade76 (26 April 2012)

lizziebinks said:



			Pre 2005 ban - you had real hunts (hunting animals) and drag (hunting a human-laid scent). Post ban, these hunts did not change their name but of course, they have changed their activities. However, it should not noted that not all hunts post-ban offer the same sport. Drag hunts have always been bloody fast and without let-up. Post ban, many traditional hunts try to offer sport that replicates the nature of 'real' hunting. So they would include the holloaring, the standing on point, the standing around, the chatting (!) whereas drag is all about the whizzing round the jumps/land!
		
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Yes, if all hunts went like drag hunts / bloodhound packs, hardly anyone would go out and they'd be out of business! When I used to go bloodhounding, they'd get loads out on hound exercise and hardly any for hunting proper. I am no longer up to bloodhounding and follow my local faux foxhunt instead (which I see has made an appearence on the above FB group  ), much more sedate and with many more followers!

Having skimmed through the page, I have to agree with you, CC, it seems if you do any more than gentle hacking you are guilty of cruelty!


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## skyhigh (27 April 2012)

That pic of the unborn cubs is very disturbing. I am not against hunting but no one can defend that, it is cruel.


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## catwithclaws (27 April 2012)

lizziebinks said:



			I cannot even bring myself to open the link - would do untold damage to my blood pressure reading what those antis waffle on about. There is also no point trying to debate with the wilfully ignorant or genetically stupid. Gets you nowhere. Hence why I no longer bother.
		
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this ^^


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## Alec Swan (27 April 2012)

combat_claire said:



https://www.facebook.com/horseriders.against.hunting

Check out the utter nonsense that is being spouted on this page. My calm and polite defence of stag hunting practices was deleted and I have now been banned!!
		
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C_C,  amongst all the factual nonsense,  there was the picture of the two guys holding a live fox,  by its ears.  What rubbish,  the fox was already dead.  Even if it was a lactating vixen,  so?  Would the same indignation be shown by the posters,  were it a rat on display?  I very much doubt it.

Alec.


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## SpottyTB (27 April 2012)

Decided to leave this on the wall.. Just curious but have any of you ever followed a hunt - properly? On horse back? Down here, the scent it laid and we follow that.. the hounds a bred for a purpose (like TB's are bred for racing) and they need to be worked.. so by hunting a trail the hounds are worked. Even when there wasn't a ban, the amount of foxes killed to chickens killed (by foxes) - well there isn't a comparison at all. You can choose your own pathway and decide what you believe but what i have an issue with is the anti's coming out and following the hunt.. because you don't play fair either do you? The amount of stories i've heard about what anti's have done (all from good sources who haven't taken a side) is disgraceful, pieces of 2x4 taken to a hound - broke its back, it wasn't quick (like when a fox goes by the hounds, it's almost instant) it was left there to howl and scream on the floor because it couldn't move.. the hunts men were kind enough to end it's life quickly and humanely (the anti's would have just left it there!) Again, a plank of wood was taken to a horse - the wood had nails in.. to me that is truly disgraceful - call yourselves horse woman/men, if you support that behavior you certainly are not horse woman/men. As for the sweating of the horses, bloody hell, have none of you ever seen a horse after a XC event? They foam/swet because they've worked, it's not cruel, it's just how they keep cool - they swet! My mare absolutely LOVES hunting, she shakes with excitement and will actually watch the red coats and hounds working .. i am not a keen/often follower, i've followed on my mare this season about 4 times - mostly for her experience/to meet other horses. It's a nice day out for my horse with pleasant people. Well, it is down here.. obviously it's not where you are all from.


 = within 10 mins it was deleted! hit a nerve ?


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## lizziebinks (27 April 2012)

Seriously people, you'd be flogging a dead horse trying to convince the Haters otherwise. They say with hunting, 10% of people are passionately pro (ie this forum) and 10% are passionately against (ie that FB group) and the other 80% just don't give a monkeys.

I genuinely think you are wasting your breath trying to convert or just in putting your own POV across to the Haters that you are getting nowhere. Just walk away from them.


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## VoR (27 April 2012)

Uhu, everyone is entitled to their own opinion even if that opinion is wrong and, just because a person thinks something that doesn't make it a fact!

I know this, you know this, let 'em have their opinion, think what they like and just be satisfied in the knowledge that as they are hacking (at the walk of course as anything above that might be cruel or hurt their ponies) around the roads, desparately ensuring that their gee-gee doesn't get to hot or work too hard so as to break in to a sweat, we and our horses are out in the countryside having a brilliant time!


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## Amymay (27 April 2012)

My comments have been deleted too.


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## LauraWheeler (27 April 2012)

I wish I hadn't opened that link  I have argued with anti's most of my life as half my family are anti hunting  Did have to laugh at how alot of those photos are photoshopped Can they realy not tell  Esp the one of the hound running out onto the road. Fake fake fake.
I'm tired of arguing with these people so will pretend I never saw that page, let them live in there happy little world and i'll live in mine. 

Oh and if anyone has seen all my money please let me know. I am forever being told only the rich toffs go hunting but I have no idea where all my money has got to


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## winterhorses2 (27 April 2012)

marmalade76 said:



			Yes, if all hunts went like drag hunts / bloodhound packs, hardly anyone would go out and they'd be out of business!
		
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Have you been out with all the Drag hunts in the country then? This is like the anti's tarring all hunts with the same brush, you too are tarring all drag  and bllodhound packs as being fast and furious.

I'm not an anti, but pro, just fed up of Drag packs being quoted as all about the speed and jumping.


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## Alec Swan (27 April 2012)

Well,  I've replied,  but as it may be considered a trifle strong,  I suspect that I shall be keeping C_C company,  in the naughty corner.  Sod 'em. 

Alec.


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## combat_claire (27 April 2012)

Alec Swan said:



			Well,  I've replied,  but as it may be considered a trifle strong,  I suspect that I shall be keeping C_C company,  in the naughty corner.  Sod 'em. 

Alec.
		
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The Naughty Corner link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/141714359287176/


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## combat_claire (27 April 2012)

The person who said they wanted to try drag hunting should definitely contact their local pack. Our nearest pack have hard & fast jumping days and other days that they mark as being suitable for children or novices that I understand have a slower pace and lower or optional fences. Talk to the secretary and ask for advice. 

Having been hunted by the drag on one of their fast and furious days across Milton Park I can vouch for how fast those big days are! They whizzed through the coverts that take the fox hounds trail hunting two hours in around 30 minutes!! In that time jumping around 20 hunt fences of around 3' average at a guess.


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## oakash (27 April 2012)

Thanks for the link to 'Horseriders against hunting'  - it really is silly, but I have every confidence that some people will believe it. Having seen anti hunting thugs attacking horses is surely some excuse for the apparently poor horsemanship being displayed in some pictures. Make no mistake, many anti-hunt people have deep mental problems and inadequacies and hate hunting people far more than they care about animals.


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## Alec Swan (27 April 2012)

combat_claire said:



https://www.facebook.com/horseriders.against.hunting

.......
		
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first you have to post a comment on here...........



combat_claire said:



			The Naughty Corner link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/141714359287176/

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Then you can join this rather exclusive,  smug and select lot.......that's us!! 

Alec.


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## Goldenstar (28 April 2012)

Alec Swan said:



			C_C,  amongst all the factual nonsense,  there was the picture of the two guys holding a live fox,  by its ears.  What rubbish,  the fox was already dead.  Even if it was a lactating vixen,  so?  Would the same indignation be shown by the posters,  were it a rat on display?  I very much doubt it.

Alec.
		
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Alarmingly Alec I suspect they might.


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## flump (28 April 2012)

I have never really been hunting properly, I took my pony once but he flipped amd my mum took me home, I would like to go again though

I have to say I found the picture of the hound on the railway line horrible, but surely the person who took it should of done something to help rather than leave it there?? I dont think the picture give a true picture of hunting as the pics of the horses being hauled in the mouth mainly have an anti stood infront so maybe a last minute thing to stop them being run over?! And as for the cruel pics of horses sweating- mine have come in from the field like that..

Can someone shed some light on the pics of the 2 hounds (railway line and fence popst) and the dead horse with a steak through it, was this in uk??


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## marmalade76 (28 April 2012)

winterhorses2 said:



			Have you been out with all the Drag hunts in the country then? This is like the anti's tarring all hunts with the same brush, you too are tarring all drag  and bllodhound packs as being fast and furious.
		
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  Have you??


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## winterhorses2 (28 April 2012)

Possibly more than you??? But i'll admit not all.


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## Paddydou (28 April 2012)

Not banned yet but working on it. What a bunch of plebs most of whom don't even know when the breeding season is or even when the hunting season they are so against is!

Idiots. 

Local fox is still getting a pellet up its arse for what it did to my girls...


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## Paddydou (28 April 2012)

Buggar. Hopefully they won't find them all...

I wouldn't mind so much if they were to tell the TRUTH - after all there are some grizzly aspects but all this bull...

Recently deleted a "freind" because she kept posting stuff on my wall after I asked her not to. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not to force it on others.

Propoganda is forcing an opinion too.


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## CrazyMare (28 April 2012)

I try not to waste any time on those who already have their view - the 10% someone mentioned, but I honestly did not realise that people would view a sweaty horse as cruel too. As someone else said, mine can come in from the field like that!!!

My fear out hunting is to meet sabs (I've been lucky so far) because my mare would probably loose the plot!


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## Alec Swan (28 April 2012)

As part of the link which C_C posted,  there is an additional link to Hillside Animal Sanctuary.

They have a picture of a lamb which was stolen from a field,  apparently it was alone starving and dying,  and they've taken it over.  I've suggested that their actions are more commonly known as theft,  and if they don't return the lamb to its rightful; owner,  then I shall report them to Defra,  the Police and to Trading Standards.  Just Who TF do these interfering idiots think that they are?  Try stealing my lambs as a propaganda stunt,  and see what happens,  go on Hillside,  I dare you.......

Alec.


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## Paddydou (29 April 2012)

There is no accounting for some.

Surprosed me that they were so quick to boot me off. Just as well I can touch type!!! 

Think they must be linked up to a mobile phone or something.


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## combat_claire (30 April 2012)

We did briefly have a visitor from their page on our group, but some robust response saw off her incoherent ramblings.


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## TwoPair (1 May 2012)

Added my two penneth worth


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## TwoPair (1 May 2012)

Oh! All my comments have been deleted! And the page is now on lockdown - even if you 'like' them you cannot comment!!

ETA unless that means I've been sent to the naughty corner?


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## pinklilly (1 May 2012)

I think that means you are banned TwoPair lol!  Have you seen the nasty comments regarding people from here?


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## TwoPair (1 May 2012)

I saw one comment about 'our friends from H&H' but only skim read most things really. They didn't seem to appreciate the following comment :

'Please, please, don't tar us all with the same brush. Some of the nicest people I have met have been hunting. A friend of mine events to a very, very high level. Her team horse was retired to the hunting field. She has in the last year lost two horses, in completely unrelated, unpreventable accidents. She is the nicest person you could ever wish to meet, and you cannot argue that her horses lack any care or love. I don't mind you hating the sport, but please don't hate the people when you don't know them.'

And also when I pointed out that the 'heartless bar stewards' that are hunt staff actually aren't heartless, and that Neil C buried one of his favourite hounds in the puppy parade ring at the old kennels. Had he been heartless, that hound would have been disposed of in other means...

None of that was acknowledged  Nor the fact that some FC's allow the hunt on their land, so unless they know for a fact the hunt wasn't allowed in that wood, it's a bit unfair to get their knickers in a twist


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## polopony (3 May 2012)

lizziebinks said:



			I cannot even bring myself to open the link - would do untold damage to my blood pressure reading what those antis waffle on about.
		
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if there was a retweet button on here, I would press it now! I get far to cross to even look!


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## cptrayes (3 May 2012)

lizziebinks said:



			Pre 2005 ban - you had real hunts (hunting animals) and drag (hunting a human-laid scent). Post ban, these hunts did not change their name but of course, they have changed their activities. However, it should not noted that not all hunts post-ban offer the same sport. Drag hunts have always been bloody fast and without let-up. Post ban, many traditional hunts try to offer sport that replicates the nature of 'real' hunting. So they would include the holloaring, the standing on point, the standing around, the chatting (!) whereas drag is all about the whizzing round the jumps/land!
		
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You've been out with the wrong drag hunts 

Drag hunt suitable for complete beginners with a way around every single fence:

Cheshire Farmers every meet.
North East Cheshire several meets a season, with several more "Intro to Hunting" easy days.

Also, by nature of the scent laying, every drag hunt has a check after every leg where there is plenty of time for people socialise.   

These checks are also predictable, meaning that it is easier than true hunting for less experienced owners to judge how fit their horse needs to be, and to stop at a point when the horse has had enough and hack back to their box, or home.

It's not unfair to socks, either, the socks are entirely willing participants


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## JosieB (3 May 2012)

Having looked at the site and what a Martin M****y has written about Rosie you would think the nasty piece would realise his address etc is easy enough to find.. considering the abuse he posts here and there, one day his disgusting mouth will get him a good smack in the face.


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## elliebrewer98 (3 May 2012)

God, some of those lot are complete idiots! I wonder if they'd consider my pony *mistreated* because she sweats up very quickly and easily?!


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## Alec Swan (3 May 2012)

For those who followed the thefts which were encouraged and supported by Hillside Animal Sanctuary,  near Norwich,  it's interesting to see that those posts which have pointed out the facts,  and the law,  have all been removed,  and it seems that I'm no longer welcome!!

Another point is that I reported the theft of the lamb to Trading Standards,  and it seems that there is a degree of nepotism involved,  because Trading Standards passed on some cattle to The Sanctuary (assuming that's what it is),  and seem loathe to take action against them.  If you are seen to assist a government body,  it seems,  you're immune form prosecution.  There is something very wrong with that,  and if we can't have a Trading Standards who are impartial,  then their whole being should be in question.

Natural England were similarly concerned at the release into the wild of restricted creatures,  so it all seems to have been a complete waist of time.  I suppose that the Police will show no interest whatsoever in the cage trap which contained the squirrel,  and which as stolen goods,  Hillside willingly took possession of.

Some of these charities need close inspection,  or a moral form of audit,  I feel.

Alec.


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## brucethegypsycob (3 May 2012)

Not all drag hunts are fast and whizzy. The drag hunt i go out with cater for different abilities - both horse and rider on different days. So on big hedge days it is  fast, wilst on 2* days its less fast and there is have lots of support and guidence from the masters. They also have regular stand around times to allow those who wish to watch the hounds at work. There is always a field master at the back to give advice/support/encouragement to those who need it.


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## jrp204 (3 May 2012)

Alec Swan said:



			For those who followed the thefts which were encouraged and supported by Hillside Animal Sanctuary,  near Norwich,  it's interesting to see that those posts which have pointed out the facts,  and the law,  have all been removed,  and it seems that I'm no longer welcome!!

Another point is that I reported the theft of the lamb to Trading Standards,  and it seems that there is a degree of nepotism involved,  because Trading Standards passed on some cattle to The Sanctuary (assuming that's what it is),  and seem loathe to take action against them.  If you are seen to assist a government body,  it seems,  you're immune form prosecution.  There is something very wrong with that,  and if we can't have a Trading Standards who are impartial,  then their whole being should be in question.

Natural England were similarly concerned at the release into the wild of restricted creatures,  so it all seems to have been a complete waist of time.  I suppose that the Police will show no interest whatsoever in the cage trap which contained the squirrel,  and which as stolen goods,  Hillside willingly took possession of.

Some of these charities need close inspection,  or a moral form of audit,  I feel.

Alec.
		
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Well, no surprise there then! Perhaps we'll not bother with movement forms next time, bet that'd go down like a lead balloon. The stolen lamb has a thread running on Farmers weekly forum, maybe FWwill pick up on it?


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## Fiagai (4 May 2012)

From a perusal of this *Horseriders Against Hunting *FaceBook page (!) it would appear that this motely collection of extremists are infact the usual Anti's who are pretending to present themselves as actual concerned horseriders!  Looking at what has been posted and the images presented as 'hunting' it is quite clear that they know no more about equestrian activities than a poke in the eye with a stick so to speak.... the quality of argument comes across as the usual collection of drivel and misinformation combining into the abhorrent howling of an ignorant mob.

Facebook should really man up and start ridding themselves of such incitment to hatred groups - I wonder if I set up a similar facebook page for example of Men against Motorists who openly vilifiled and threatened those involved in this  legal activity  what would happen?  To my mind this is simply another example of illegal activity by organised self interest groups of at best dubious intent.

The individual who has been openly abusive to a Hunting Forum member is one 'Martin Massey' - I believe we have encountered this ignorant individual on this forum before in another guise - anyone up for a considred opinion on their identity?....I suggest that this person be reported for incitment to hatred to the relevant FB authorities (but obviously not the page admin who is/are one of the aforementioned anti individuals/groups.


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## Alec Swan (5 May 2012)

As a matter of interest,  Martin Massey (assuming that's his real name) has suggested that petrol bombing would be a useful tool in their armoury,  and has offered it as a suggestion.

If that isn't incitement to violence,  I wonder what is. 

Alec.


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## DawnRay (5 May 2012)

It does appear to the casual observer of this thread that certain members somewhat enjoyed a bit of trolling on an anti hunting Facebook page until such time as the H&H forum had to pay the inevitable price. I guess such activity is not beneath some of our members sadly!!


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## Alec Swan (5 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			It does appear to the casual observer of this thread that certain members somewhat enjoyed a bit of trolling on an anti hunting Facebook page until such time as the H&H forum had to pay the inevitable price. I guess such activity is not beneath some of our members sadly!!
		
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Assuming that you are referring to yourself as a "casual observer",  perhaps I could point out to you that the Defra set rules by which most of us keep livestock,  and the laws of the land,  including those regarding common theft,  could hardly be described as trolling.  Unless,  of course,  that's your intent. 

Alec.


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## DawnRay (5 May 2012)

Nice attempt to sidestep but the topic is about the Horseriders against hunting FB page. If your post is directed at me you are talking about a completely different matter or is that YOUR intent


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## MagicMelon (6 May 2012)

wewillshowthem said:



			I have never hunted before, parents won''t allow it.

But some of those photos are awful, im all for shooting the fox there and then, but not making it run for it's life.
		
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Agree. I've never hunted because I would never wish to do so being against it.  It really irritates me that people assume that just because I ride / own horses that I am pro hunt.


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## Noodlebug (6 May 2012)

Seems to me both sides are as bad as each other. You have the die hard hunting set that see no wrong in anything to do with hunting and call the people that are against it idiots and morons. The you have the other extreme, the antis who seem to revel in showing nasty pictures of animals and hoping people break their necks!!


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## Paddydou (6 May 2012)

I have no problem with people being anti hunting at all - after all it is a personal choice. My best friend is very anti but she would never presume to use the arguements that the "anti's" use prefering to rely on her experiences and arguements that she knows are fact rather than this tosh.

What I have a problem with is the propoganda against hunting. Ok so some of the aspects are not pleasing to the eye but it has a job to do. No fit, healthy fox is going to be caught by a bunch of folk on horses with a pack of hounds. For a start the hulabaloo that the hunt makes is enough to make any animal aware that something is going on and get out of the way! 

To say that cubs have been killed by a hunt out of hunting season is so foolish. To say that they were killed PRIOR to the foxes natural breeding season also shows a complete lack of awareness of the natural enviroment around us. How can people who have no idea of the ways of a fox possibly argue that hunting is so terrible if they don't even know WHY there are hunting seasons and why it stops for periods of time, why it is done the way it is and alternative methods to ensure a healthy population is maintained.

THAT is what anoyed me about the page. There was no reasonable arguement, no reasoned debate just look at these propoganda pictures! Gosh if I start screaming loudly enough I may even get folk to believe that grass is actually pink! I have also been given the arguement that foxes were hunted until they were extinct in this country yet when I asked for the proof none was available. I have been told that foxes are bred in captivity then released for hunting - again no one could tell me where nor whom was doing this. Like I said grass could be pink if you shouted loudly enough about it. THAT is what all of the people I have met who are very anti the "anti's" are cross about and why they have dug in - not the fact that they are anti!


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## Fiagai (7 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			Nice attempt to sidestep but the topic is about the Horseriders against hunting FB page. If your post is directed at me you are talking about a completely different matter or is that YOUR intent 

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...and your point is ? - you would appear to have recently joined the forum to deliberately denigiate those who points out that the HRAH FB page is a virtual rant by organised Antis who in the main appear to have little or no knowledge of basic horseriding never mind actual hunting

On this forum there have been many excellent discussions on hunting however there has also been deliberate and concerted attacks from rabid Anti groups and individuals DESPITE the fact that what is discussed here is hunting activities that take place within the law

Where individuals or groups have problem with what they precieve as illegal activity (whether this is correct or not) they should follow the correct procedure and not attempt to infringe the rights of others to undertake what are legal activities

Rolling your eyes will decieve no one...


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## Fiagai (7 May 2012)

MagicMelon said:



			Agree. I've never hunted because I would never wish to do so being against it.  It really irritates me that people assume that just because I ride / own horses that I am pro hunt.
		
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And that is your right to do so MM.  However it would appear that we have rabid Anti Groups preteding to be 'horseriders' to score a virtual publicity hit against others who follow hunting post ban - hunting which is a legal activity, not that you would know it from the virulant attacks on the FB page and use of images amongst which would appear to be many that have been heavily photoshopped and taken from other equestrian activities

I know of extreme members of these groups that would seek for all forms of 'horseriding' activities to be eventually banned as they precieve riding horses as a form of animal abuse.  I fear that this howling mob type approach is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak...


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## Alec Swan (7 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			It does appear to the casual observer of this thread that certain members somewhat enjoyed a bit of trolling on an anti hunting Facebook page until such time as the H&H forum had to pay the inevitable price. I guess such activity is not beneath some of our members sadly!!
		
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Alec Swan said:



			Assuming that you are referring to yourself as a "casual observer",  *and were referring to me as a troll, *perhaps I could point out to you that the Defra set rules by which most of us keep livestock,  and the laws of the land,  including those regarding common theft,  could hardly be described as trolling.  Unless,  of course,  that's your intent. 

Alec.
		
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DawnRay said:



			Nice attempt to sidestep but the topic is about the Horseriders against hunting FB page. If your post is directed at me you are talking about a completely different matter or is that YOUR intent 

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I was responding directly to your remarks,  and there was no side-stepping on my part.

You will notice that I've placed an addition in bold print,  to better help you understand my point.

Alec.


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## DawnRay (7 May 2012)

I am sorry Mr.Swan but you did not! You responded to my post regarding YOUR trolling of an anti hunting page (Horseriders against Hunting), attempting to justify this with your actions on another, the Hillside Sanctuary page which is not anti hunting. Two very separate matters.
YOU trolled an anti group (whilst you complain about trolls on here), bringing tit for tat attacks on this forum and one of its members from anti's. If you are going to bring this forum into disrepute and think you are being clever,then boast about it on these pages please have the balls to admit your guilt! End of discussion.
Now I shall return to my normal username.


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## DawnRay (7 May 2012)

RUBBISH Fiagai!! I have changed my username to address this issue and shall return to it so this matter can be laid to rest amongst ourselves. Members of this forum went to an anti hunting Facebook page to 'have their say' (troll), and then we have a thread about it on the Hunting forum??? This led to anti's posting abuse on this forum and directing it at one of our members.
This did not happen out of the blue, certain posters caused it. If they want this forum to sink to the levels of others then they should carry on. If not they should bloody well grow up! I have had my say on the matter.


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## EAST KENT (7 May 2012)

We may have an outbreak of rabies   here folks


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## JosieB (7 May 2012)

I don't think anyones ''trolling'' or whatever is any excuse for another individual wishing someone a horrible death, threatening petrol bombs, etc..  thats just a clearly disturbed individual who i doubt would have the nerve to say it to the individuals directed at. Nasty people who lack something in their real life. Actually lack two somethings.


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## Alec Swan (7 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			I am sorry Mr.Swan but you did not! You responded to my post regarding YOUR trolling of an anti hunting page (Horseriders against Hunting), attempting to justify this with your actions on another, the Hillside Sanctuary page which is not anti hunting. Two very separate matters. *You're entirely correct,  they were two entirely separate issues,  and were dealt with on two different sites.  Short of talking nonsense,  I fail to see how you've managed to connect the two,  and attempt to lay the blame at my door.*
YOU trolled an anti group (whilst you complain about trolls on here), bringing tit for tat attacks on this forum and one of its members from anti's. *Perhaps this might be the point at which you should understand what a troll is.  I have disagreed with others,  I have made my point s clearly,  or so I thought,  IMPORTANTLY,  I have not hidden behind a user name,  and nor have I changed by name to suit my argument.*If you are going to bring this forum into disrepute and think you are being clever,then boast about it on these pages please have the balls to admit your guilt! *I would feel a degree of guilt if I thought that your accusations could be in any way substantiated,  and as for your suggestion that I admit to guilt,  when you've regained your composure,  ceased to hide behind yet another user name,  which most would consider trolling,  then I'll happily discuss the matter with you,  further,  should you so wish.*End of discussion.
Now I shall return to my normal username. *That would be interesting! *

Click to expand...

ALEC SWAN.


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## justforfun (7 May 2012)

what a horrible and nasty facebook group,they are wishng that people die, if they want to protest against hunting, ok, its their choice but the hateful, nasty and evil comments made about anyone who has a picture on there, albiet hunting oe not is shocking. its full of nutters.
I have reported the whole group for its slanderous comments and treats to kill direct to facebook.


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## Fiagai (7 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			RUBBISH Fiagai!! I have changed my username to address this issue and shall return to it so this matter can be laid to rest amongst ourselves. Members of this forum went to an anti hunting Facebook page to 'have their say' (troll), and then we have a thread about it on the Hunting forum??? This led to anti's posting abuse on this forum and directing it at one of our members.
This did not happen out of the blue, certain posters caused it. If they want this forum to sink to the levels of others then they should carry on. If not they should bloody well grow up! I have had my say on the matter.
		
Click to expand...

DO please then tell us  as to why you changed your Username and to what purpose?  If you are a genuine memeber of this Forum  then do please enlighten us (if you look you have minimal posts btw - if you had 'changed' your Username it would by default have carried your previous post count) So I stand by my analysis that you have 'joined' to stir more verbal manure to the matter at hand

Members of the hunting forum on HHO are more than aware of what is going on outside this relatively small interest group on HHO.  Where hunting is being denigrated and misinformation is being posted I would expect individuals to actively comment as they see fit.  The HHAH is very clearly trotting out the rantings of established Anti Groups without recourse to veracity or engaging in logical discussion.

Do ask yourself why Forum members felt obliged to comment on this piece of propaganda FB page?  To me it is obvious, if you do not then your interaction here smells badly.  As for your ludricous accusation that members of this Forum were to blame for individuals from the HHAH FB page posting abuse and directing it a member of HHO - I find that your arguments here reminiscent of putting the cart before the horse.  Everyone is responsible for their own actions.  My right to swing my fist ends at your nose.  Any individual who takes it upon themselves to threathen another person in such a manner is not deserving of any respect or excuse because there is no excuse for this type of behaviour.   Finally I would look to your own response before instructing others to grow up...


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## combat_claire (8 May 2012)

cptrayes said:



			It's not unfair to socks, either, the socks are entirely willing participants 

Click to expand...

The diamante ankle sock I saw being chased round by you lot didn't look at all happy. Tied to a rope, dipped in fake fox scent and then bumped around by a runner or quad bike. It is barbaric! 

The disturbing truth is that socks mysteriously vanish after the drag hunt have met in the locality. My best Lions Rampant striped sock was not a willing participant and did not have my permission to take part!! 

League Against Cruelty to Socks is open to new members...


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## combat_claire (8 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			It does appear to the casual observer of this thread that certain members somewhat enjoyed a bit of trolling on an anti hunting Facebook page until such time as the H&H forum had to pay the inevitable price. I guess such activity is not beneath some of our members sadly!!
		
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There is a common misconception amongst the anti-hunting brigade that anyone posting something that disagrees with your viewpoint is a troll. Like most of their beliefs it is completely erroneous. A troll is someone who deliberately tries to inflame the situation, not someone who tries to correct misleading information being spewed on sites.


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## smokey (8 May 2012)

combat_claire said:



			There is a common misconception amongst the anti-hunting brigade that anyone posting something that disagrees with your viewpoint is a troll. Like most of their beliefs it is completely erroneous. A troll is someone who deliberately tries to inflame the situation, not someone who tries to correct misleading information being spewed on sites.
		
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Couldnt agree more! I've left a comment on a foto on the fb page, will be interesting to see if its removed. I'm amazed and disgusted by the ignorance of some of these people, and the pure venom  they spout.           ,


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## Copperpot (8 May 2012)

Have posted on there! They say that hound was placed on a railway line, absolute balls. I am a train driver and he has wandered onto an electrified 3rd rail and gotten a shock. There would have been no rescuing him i'm afraid as anyone who fancied walking across several electrified lines to rescue him would have been electrocuted themselves the second they touched him.

I see many foxes/badgers etc that have been killed this way. The current on rails on the floor is DC and "grabs" you rather than the over head lines which fling you away. No one could have saved that hound.

What a group of idiots!


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## VoR (9 May 2012)

Well now, this is a bit of a Hornet's Nest I must say!

I hunt (within the law), I like hunting(within the law), I enjoy hunting (within the law), I understand that some people do not hunt, like or enjoy hunting, I fail to see, however, what they have against what hunting has now become!!?? I accept that they may feel traditional hunting is cruel, inhuman and barbaric, I accept that they may want to state their case against hunting and I'm happy to state my case for it, between two parties taking an adult approach it can be quite enlightening for both sides.

However, I have been confronted by anti-hunting protestors, I have maintained a dignified and polite approach, I have been called a 'bar steward' and a four letter word that begins with C and is quite unpleasant, been told to 'fork-off' and so on without replying in kind, I wouldn't wish those that have an alternative view to my own ill, I would wish them to contract a serious illness, be maimed, paralysed or any other terrible happenings, I wouldn't make outright threats or incite others to be violent towards them because I am not cruel, inhuman or barbaric, neither are the people I hunt with for that mattre............and this begs a fundemental question, who are the cruel, inhuman, barbaric thugs here ???????????????????????????????????


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## smokey (10 May 2012)

Oh dear, I seem to have been blocked from the fb site! I didn't even say anything inflammatory, just pointed out that the "severe" bits being used were in fact a loose ring snaffle and a hanging cheek snaffle. How pathetic!


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## Alec Swan (10 May 2012)

Smokey,

Ah well,  that's where you went wrong.  There is no place,  in the world of the bigot,  for knowledge,  experience or courteous correction.

The simple fact that those who disagree with us are as free to use this forum as any,  speaks volumes,  when the same consideration can't be shown to us.

Alec.


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## skydy (10 May 2012)

I must say,(firstly) that I was absolutely stunned when the U.K. antis actually had traditional fox hunting banned.

I thought we, in the U.S.,had a lock on the weird "animal rights"
people(most of whom are city dwellers who do not seem to understand that the meat that they buy from the grocery has been an animal, alive, that has been killed). Neither have they ever had livestock killed by fox, coyote or wolf. However, the "antis" in the U.S.  have been unable to supercede the farmer's/rancher's  interest in controlling the threat to livestock.

What makes me happy to be here in the U.S. is that, although it is against the law to dye your poodle pink (or any other color) in many localities, hunting is allowed (only, not of an endangered species). Protecting your livestock IS allowed. We still have many stubborn and independent farmers and their political representatives know better than to cross them.

I do believe that hunting deer with hounds is not legal in the U.S. (I'll check when I have a moment) however fox and coyote are fair game, though many U.S. hunts only chase and do not kill ,the purpose,especially with coyote, is to keep them away and afraid of people and civilization to keep the losses of livestock in control.. My brother's little dog was savaged by a coyote and our neighbour's cats were killed by foxes. Perhaps if you "anti's' pets were being eaten regularly thay would have a different view.

My dear grandmother was British and her family came to the U.S. from Surrey when she was a child.(Long ago). She loved animals but was a no nonsense person.
I have many old foxhunting books that were left to me , that I enjoy still, and I really was shocked and surprised at the ban.. 

Am I correct that foxes can still be shot in the U.K.? Can they still be trapped? Poisoned?


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## smokey (10 May 2012)

Alec Swan said:



			Smokey,

Ah well,  that's where you went wrong.  There is no place,  in the world of the bigot,  for knowledge,  experience or courteous correction.

The simple fact that those who disagree with us are as free to use this forum as any,  speaks volumes,  when the same consideration can't be shown to us.

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

Alec, sadly you are correct! The older I get the more I realise this, and the more depressed I become. Its a sad state of affairs when people can't be civil and tolerant of others opinions. Although I do find it quite difficult to tolerate the rubbish spouted by some of the vile people on that page.


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## TiddlyPups (10 May 2012)

I had a glance on the page and read this written on a photo on a horse pecking on landing and in the process of galloping off:

"I hope the horse is OK but I hope the person is killed in the same way this horse will die"

Well I'm sorry but how can "hoping a person is killed" be better than someone hunting an animal?!!! And anyway the horse was not on the brink of a torturous death.


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## dunkley (10 May 2012)

I await my ban.............................having posted the following comment. (I tried to sit on my hands, honest I did!)

"So, Gillian.............. I guess the 'Toffs' comment shows just how much you are actually worried about the fox, rather than nurturing the bloody great chip on your shoulder?"


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## Fiagai (10 May 2012)

smokey said:



			Oh dear, I seem to have been blocked from the fb site! I didn't even say anything inflammatory, just pointed out that the "severe" bits being used were in fact a loose ring snaffle and a hanging cheek snaffle. How pathetic!
		
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Ahh smokey you see that is where HHO and the 'Horseriders'  against hunting differ.  Most people here actually ride or at least have ridden in the past. The HRAH brigade are in all evidence the usual bunch of Antis masquerading as 'horseriders' so that their propaganda 'appears' to have some veneer of seriousness, unfortunately the whole thing fails to stand up to even the slightest bit of applied intelligence...


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## Littlelegs (10 May 2012)

I don't do Facebook, but I've had a look, my best guess is now the gns over, they have to do something with their time. 
  We live on the edge of a town, with urban foxes who'd rather raid bins than kill stuff. However at the farm we had an injured dog fox who was of the larger country variety. Within weeks of his appearance, several cats had gone & he got in with the chickens & decimated them. Poor old thing is too timid to scavenge near houses & too weak to hunt. Now there's only agile farm cats in the area & chickens penned securely he's slowly starving & reduced to raiding the feed bins for pony nuts & chicken pellets. I took the time to explain to my 7yr old daughter why it was kindest to put it out of its misery & she understands. However whilst doing a school project with a trainee teacher, she was very much jumped on when the teacher asked who'd seen them, & my daughter said she had, but ours had to be shot soon as x could catch it. The teachers take on it was we should put food & water out for it, & it didn't matter about the cats & chickens. Daughter, bless her, said as it had killed one of our farm cats, & wanted to kill the other she'd rather it die than her cat. And then tried to explain the fox wasn't a very happy fox as he was hungry & can't even run. Sad thing is, even when I went in to school to discuss this, the teacher still didn't get it.


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## combat_claire (10 May 2012)

Skydy, yes shooting, trapping and snaring all remain legal. There are also certain exemptions that allow foxes to be killed by hunts such as flushing to a bird of prey or a gun.


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## dunkley (10 May 2012)

That's it - I'm banned


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## Alec Swan (11 May 2012)

littlelegs said:



			.......

Sad thing is, even when I went in to school to discuss this, the teacher still didn't get it.
		
Click to expand...

It is not the job of a teacher to indoctrinate children into their own,  narrow blinkered views on life.  In your shoes,  I'd have explained things,  in a way that there would have been no room for doubt! 

Alec.


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## Littlelegs (11 May 2012)

Agree entirely Alec. In fairness to the schools regular staff, they agreed too, it was just the inability of the trainee, to grasp that the cutesy wutey fox couldn't be taken in & fed like a stray dog. She accepted she couldn't teach those principles but I doubt she really understood why her opinion was invalid. I could readily imagine that in my shoes she would have captured the petrified fox & taken it home to feed it pedigree chum. Luckily hunting didn't come up, the woman's thoughts would fit right in with the Facebook group!


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## amy_b (11 May 2012)

on one photo they'r slagging the hunt off for not saving a hound from the train tacks...on another they'r slagging the huntsmen for being ON the tracks!!! (endangering people lives ) 
make your minds up at least!!! half of those photos of people falling/riding badly/overbitting/blah blah blah can be seen weekly round the country at dressage/SJ and eventing. its hardly unique to hunting?! idiots.


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## smokey (11 May 2012)

amy_b said:



			on one photo they'r slagging the hunt off for not saving a hound from the train tacks...on another they'r slagging the huntsmen for being ON the tracks!!! (endangering people lives ) 
make your minds up at least!!! half of those photos of people falling/riding badly/overbitting/blah blah blah can be seen weekly round the country at dressage/SJ and eventing. its hardly unique to hunting?! idiots.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think they can see the irony and sometimes downright cruelty in some of the comments. I bet these folks are a joy to be around! I wish they hadn't banned me, there's so much I'd like to say. Idiots is right!


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## Fiagai (12 May 2012)

amy_b said:



			on one photo they'r slagging the hunt off for not saving a hound from the train tacks...on another they'r slagging the huntsmen for being ON the tracks!!! (endangering people lives ) 
make your minds up at least!!! half of those photos of people falling/riding badly/overbitting/blah blah blah can be seen weekly round the country at dressage/SJ and eventing. its hardly unique to hunting?! idiots.
		
Click to expand...

Agree they appear to know bog all about horseriding...I like the name you have chosen and suggest on reflection that the FB page should be in fact renamed as Idiots Against Horseriding....


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## Pale Rider (12 May 2012)

They appear to have some pretty disgusting photographs even if some of them have been enhanced.


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## skydy (12 May 2012)

combat_claire said:



			Skydy, yes shooting, trapping and snaring all remain legal. There are also certain exemptions that allow foxes to be killed by hunts such as flushing to a bird of prey or a gun.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you combat_claire,
I thought that was the case. How on earth do your antis justify the ban? A fox left to suffer in a snare or from an inaccurate gunshot, rather than being killed quickly by a predator (hound) ? 

From my perpective (admittedly from across the pond) the "antis" seem to be more anti equestrian than pro fox... 

Of course, we have our fair share of nuts in the U.S. as well. I suppose at this point in time ,our rural people are able to keep their local politians in line with their interests.

 In the U.S. , the state's autonomy , I think, makes a difference. City people can have their views, but their opinion won't fly in a rural area, so they most often only have influence in their own locality. 

Of course that does not keep them from trying to dramatise the situation as they seem to do in your country, a- la the sweaty horse on that facebook page (so stupid). 

For what it's worth,I was absolutely stunned and disappointed, for everyone's sake, by the ban of foxhunting in your country... 

I'm happy to see you keeping on hunting in the legal way that you are allowed and hope that you will be able to turn things around!


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## Copperpot (12 May 2012)

I explained to them why they couldn't rescue that hound from tracks but they have chosen to ignore me


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## Fiagai (12 May 2012)

Pale Rider said:



			They appear to have some pretty disgusting photographs even if some of them have been enhanced.
		
Click to expand...

i agree PP some are disgusting - Some are taken from other equestrian pursuits, many appear to have been photoshopped and others are taken in the years previous to the Hunt Act of 2004 when fox hunting was legal.  In effect this FB page comes across a general incitment to hatred to those involved in equestrian activities.  I believe it is time for FB to get its house in order in relation to such underhand and grossly offensive  propaganda.


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## marmalade76 (12 May 2012)

skydy said:



			How on earth do your antis justify the ban? A fox left to suffer in a snare or from an inaccurate gunshot, rather than being killed quickly by a predator (hound) ?
		
Click to expand...

This is because, IMO anyway, the ban is about getting at the people who hunt, perceieved (by the antis) to be moneyed and upper class (shown by commments about 'toffs' on the group page). You don't see them harrassing the gypsies that were shown hare coursing on TV recently!

Of course, many different types of people hunt, including me and I am niether moneyed (mores the pity) nor upper class (even middle for that matter!)


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## Herne (15 May 2012)

Yep. I have been banned too.


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## Grey_Eventer (15 May 2012)

*humph* I just got banned because of my comment about the C&H...also about the vote being 58% and therefore in a democratic country, the law should not have gone through. Clearly they didn't like being told their halos weren't all that gold and shiny. They are so boring.


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## DawnRay (16 May 2012)

Grey_Eventer said:



			*humph* I just got banned because of my comment about the C&H...also about the vote being 58% and therefore in a democratic country, the law should not have gone through. Clearly they didn't like being told their halos weren't all that gold and shiny. They are so boring.
		
Click to expand...

'Lights are on but nobody's home', strikes again. The site clearly states it is only for people who are against fox hunting. Why on earth would a hunt supporter expect to post there?!


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## Grey_Eventer (16 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			'Lights are on but nobody's home', strikes again. The site clearly states it is only for people who are against fox hunting. Why on earth would a hunt supporter expect to post there?! 

Click to expand...

I actually posted in response to someones inaccuracy on facts. It wasn't clearly stating I supported hunting or didn't support hunting. I was just pointing out that our government failed us.


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## Alec Swan (16 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			....... Why on earth would a hunt supporter expect to post there?! 

Click to expand...

For the very same reason that you are shown the courtesy of being allowed to post on here. You have come onto a,  generally,  pro-hunting forum,  and been allowed to air your views.  Perhaps you'd be kind enough to explain to me why the side for whom you bat,  refuse to accept open debate,  as we do.  The reply,  that "You'd better ask them",  wont be a reply,  of any worth,  as your team seem unable to accept any opinion but their own.

Others have thought you to be a troll,  I suspect you to be one who is in receipt of guidance,  as your posts wander from thin and indefensible,  to reasonably well argued,  as if you are receiving instruction.  It would seem that we are talking to several.  

Perhaps I'm wrong,  but anyway, what on earth is the point of debate,  when there is such intransigence?  Draft all the accusations that you wish,  but I will no longer debate with an ill-informed bigot,  and I'd strongly recommend that others follow my rather late example.

Good night.

Alec.


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## Fiagai (16 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			'Lights are on but nobody's home', strikes again. The site clearly states it is only for people who are against fox hunting. Why on earth would a hunt supporter expect to post there?! 

Click to expand...

DR - the answer is quite simple. Where what is posted is at best questionable and at worst appears to be biased, inaccurate and in many instances completely misleading.  *The presentation of 'information' in whatever guise without discussion or comment is in effect propaganda. If it is argued that this is not propaganda then there should be no issue with individuals of all opinion commenting on what has been posted*

I note that on the HRAH FB page it states that the page has been set up by a single individual, however it's peculiar that this  singular becomes the plural of 'Horseriders' with purportedly one individual deciding that no one else outside their belief bias being allowed to make any comment. ....

An example - Lets say I set up a FB page for Hand gliders against Aeroplanes and proceed to post 'facts' about how nasty aeroplanes are and threaten those that chose to fly then I would presume that I would attract at least some negative comment.  

This type of propaganda amounts to an incitement to hatred - time FB did a bit of housekeeping imo...

By the way DR - I asked you in a previous post why you chose to disguise your presence here under a 'changed' username, I await an answer to this conundrum.


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## EAST KENT (17 May 2012)

Do as Alec suggests and leave the demented one to gabble in the corner ..alone.


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## Amymay (17 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			'Lights are on but nobody's home', strikes again. The site clearly states it is only for people who are against fox hunting. Why on earth would a hunt supporter expect to post there?! 

Click to expand...

Well it would certainly be of benefit to most of the posters on there, who don't seem to know one end of a horse from another........  You even get banned for pointing out the reasons why horses sweat for goodness sake.......


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## guido16 (17 May 2012)

EAST KENT said:



			Do as Alec suggests and leave the demented one to gabble in the corner ..alone.
		
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^^This.

Throw her something to play with and walk away.


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

Alec Swan said:



			For the very same reason that you are shown the courtesy of being allowed to post on here. You have come onto a,  generally,  pro-hunting forum,  and been allowed to air your views.  Perhaps you'd be kind enough to explain to me why the side for whom you bat,  refuse to accept open debate,  as we do.  The reply,  that "You'd better ask them",  wont be a reply,  of any worth,  as your team seem unable to accept any opinion but their own.

Others have thought you to be a troll,  I suspect you to be one who is in receipt of guidance,  as your posts wander from thin and indefensible,  to reasonably well argued,  as if you are receiving instruction.  It would seem that we are talking to several.  

Perhaps I'm wrong,  but anyway, what on earth is the point of debate,  when there is such intransigence?  Draft all the accusations that you wish,  but I will no longer debate with an ill-informed bigot,  and I'd strongly recommend that others follow my rather late example.

Good night.

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

My team, my team etc   NOW, lol lol  you suggest I may be receiving guidance?? Really. You do have somewhat of a chip on your shoulder at times.
I am very much an individual with my own beliefs thankfully. I do not stereotype and believe each person is entitled to their own opinion.

We are allowed to post here because it is an open forum that accepts and encourages sensible debate but equally offers great advice from other members about many issues. Therefore you are very, very wrong to suggest this forum and HaH on FB are one of the same. There are anti forums I guess were debate is encouraged but they are not on Facebook. Equally the pro hunting sites on Facebook do not allow debate and ban anti's immediately when they appear. Facebook simply leads to a kick in the backside if you oppose the site admin, a lesson being learned rather quickly by some on here.


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## smokey (17 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			'Lights are on but nobody's home', strikes again. The site clearly states it is only for people who are against fox hunting. Why on earth would a hunt supporter expect to post there?! 

Click to expand...

I stated quite clearly when I posted that I was neither for or against hunting, I have no opinion either way. I asked a perfectly reasonable question about a picture which was posted of sweaty horses, and was banned. DawnRay, I agree with you on one thing, you and your mates are definitely "confused"


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## Amymay (17 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			You do have somewhat of a chip on your shoulder at times.
		
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I think Alec is the last person you'll meet with an inferiority complex.


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

Fiagai said:



			DR - the answer is quite simple. Where what is posted is at best questionable and at worst appears to be biased, inaccurate and in many instances completely misleading.  *The presentation of 'information' in whatever guise without discussion or comment is in effect propaganda. If it is argued that this is not propaganda then there should be no issue with individuals of all opinion commenting on what has been posted*

I note that on the HRAH FB page it states that the page has been set up by a single individual, however it's peculiar that this  singular becomes the plural of 'Horseriders' with purportedly one individual deciding that no one else outside their belief bias being allowed to make any comment. ....

An example - Lets say I set up a FB page for Hand gliders against Aeroplanes and proceed to post 'facts' about how nasty aeroplanes are and threaten those that chose to fly then I would presume that I would attract at least some negative comment.  

This type of propaganda amounts to an incitement to hatred - time FB did a bit of housekeeping imo...

By the way DR - I asked you in a previous post why you chose to disguise your presence here under a 'changed' username, I await an answer to this conundrum.
		
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Oh no Fiagai that is all far too deep and boring for me to even begin to understand, sorry. 

I did explain why at the time I changed my username but I have as you note decided to stick with it for now. I am rather enjoying getting a little more involved in the forum this way. It has encouraged me to be less shy and open.


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

amymay said:



			Well it would certainly be of benefit to most of the posters on there, who don't seem to know one end of a horse from another........  You even get banned for pointing out the reasons why horses sweat for goodness sake.......

Click to expand...

My guess from knowing facebook is if you join a page to comment immediately in a negative way you tend to get banned. New member, just their to criticise, banned.


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

amymay said:



			I think Alec is the last person you'll meet with an inferiority complex.
		
Click to expand...

I fear you misunderstand the saying.


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

EAST KENT said:



			Do as Alec suggests and leave the demented one to gabble in the corner ..alone.
		
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2090 post's you have made I see. Have they all been so deep and meaningful?


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## Amymay (17 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			I fear you misunderstand the saying.
		
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A chip on the shoulder is most commonly referred to as someone holding a grudge or having an inferiority complex.

I suspect Alex has or is neither.


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## Amymay (17 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			My guess from knowing facebook is if you join a page to comment immediately in a negative way you tend to get banned. New member, just their to criticise, banned.
		
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I did not make any negative comments.  Just pointed out why a horse might sweat.


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## guido16 (17 May 2012)

Amy, throw her a bone and she can play with it in the corner.


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## KautoStar1 (17 May 2012)

Can I be banned too ?  PLEASE ??   Go on, let me be banned.  Ive never been banned for anything.

Is Dawn Ray  Over2You in a flimsy disguise ??


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

amymay said:



			A chip on the shoulder is most commonly referred to as someone holding a grudge or having an inferiority complex.

I suspect Alex has or is neither.
		
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Oh, you were sticking with the common. I was was referring to the original meaning.


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## Amymay (17 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			I was was referring to the original meaning.
		
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Which is?


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

amymay said:



			Which is?
		
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That of someone spoiling for a fight by carrying a chip on his shoulders and daring somebody to knock it off. In a number of posts made to me now Mr Swan has acted in such a manner.


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## guido16 (17 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			That of someone spoiling for a fight by carrying a chip on his shoulders and daring somebody to knock it off. In a number of posts made to me now Mr Swan has acted in such a manner.
		
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That has really cheered me up no end. what a giggle

Dawnray, if you are looking for your pot, it is just behind your kettle over there...that`s right, the black kettle....got it?   Thought you would. Well done.


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## Amymay (17 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			That of someone spoiling for a fight by carrying a chip on his shoulders and daring somebody to knock it off. In a number of posts made to me now Mr Swan has acted in such a manner.
		
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Touche my dear.

I suspect it could be applied to perhaps another person too, eh?


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## Alec Swan (17 May 2012)

For those who can be bothered to troll through the tedium,  you will all see that during the last 2+ years that I've been on this forum,  I've yet to fight with anyone,  figuratively or otherwise.

I make a point of never bullying the less than fortunate.  I would always prefer to withdraw from a discussion,  when the narrow minded fail to see reason,  and allow them to have a sense of victory.  That's the kindest way,  I think. 

Alec.


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

Let the fanfares sound as the baying crowd is played to!


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

amymay said:



			Touche my dear.

I suspect it could be applied to perhaps another person too, eh?
		
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One who races off topic to wrongly correct another in an attempt to score points on in internet forum perhaps?


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## guido16 (17 May 2012)

Dawnray. Despite enjoying your trolling stirring and ramblings, I fear that you should maybe except your time is done. Maybe 6/10 for overall effort.   

I suggest you try mumsnet like I did. They only have double figure IQ'S there. Unlike here where the triple figure is more prevalent.


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

Sounds more like your time posting pretty irrelevant posts to me are done guido. Best you step aside then and leave it to those hopefully more able to post something of interest and not the normal boring pro/anti nonsense.


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## guido16 (17 May 2012)

Dawn, I only post irrelevant posts to you because everything you say is irrelevant . So over2you. . .


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## DawnRay (17 May 2012)

Kind of guessed you had taken me for someone else  more fool you! If everything I say is irrelevant why on earth keep posting every time I post? I am starting to worry about you.


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## guido16 (17 May 2012)

Dont worry about me.     
You have admited you are someone else. Keep up with your own lies. . . .


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## Fiagai (17 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			Oh no Fiagai that is all far too deep and boring for me to even begin to understand, sorry. 

I did explain why at the time I changed my username but I have as you note decided to stick with it for now. I am rather enjoying getting a little more involved in the forum this way. It has encouraged me to be less shy and open.
		
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I do apologise for thinking that you would choose to at least try and understand what is being actually said.  But of course I acknowledge the whole point of propaganda is to ignore criticism or comment and simply goosestep on into history....

I will call out that your response is a lie.  I can find no previous explanation of why you 'changed' your user name (and for all the readers out there - if indeed you were a regular HHO forum member previously and indeed changed your username - your post count would have carried, funny enough it hasn't!).  Do please explain or at least link to your explanation of this (and I note that you also said that you would revert to your original username - another singular lie or inaccuracy perhaps?)

Oh by the way do list the pro hunt FB pages you brought up - I'm sure we would all love to see them as well....


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

guido16 said:



			Dont worry about me.     
You have admited you are someone else. Keep up with your own lies. . . .
		
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What trivial nonsense are you on upon now?!  I am exactly the same person I have always been. I have told everybody that I chose to change a mere forum 'username'. Have I been 'outed'?? NO Have I pretended to be someone I am not?? NO Have I lied?? NO

If you are going to make things up please have a little bit more imagination but these now personal attacks will not carry on from you without recourse, please be aware of that


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## Amymay (18 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			but these now personal attacks will not carry on from you without recourse, please be aware of that 

Click to expand...

Ooooo Guido, be careful.  She might start battering you with her crop


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

Fiagai said:



			I do apologise for thinking that you would choose to at least try and understand what is being actually said.  But of course I acknowledge the whole point of propaganda is to ignore criticism or comment and simply goosestep on into history....

I will call out that your response is a lie.  I can find no previous explanation of why you 'changed' your user name (and for all the readers out there - if indeed you were a regular HHO forum member previously and indeed changed your username - your post count would have carried, funny enough it hasn't!).  Do please explain or at least link to your explanation of this (and I note that you also said that you would revert to your original username - another singular lie or inaccuracy perhaps?)

Oh by the way do list the pro hunt FB pages you brought up - I'm sure we would all love to see them as well....
		
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Dear Fiagai, your personal interest in me is flattering but a little stalker like. Hopefully you can for a time stop attempting  to be so super clever, giving your attention to actually hearing or seeing what another has to say. So much as reverting to my original username now noted as your suggestion at my "singular lie or inaccuracy", please refer to post 102 of this thread. Read, digest and then perhaps get over ones self xx
As for my "lie", regarding change of username for which you 'call upon all these persons here present to witness' ( oh pleeeeeeeeeease )??! Not that it is of any of your business I received some unwanted attention via e-mail and decided to use a new e-mail address creating a new user account whilst I considered what course of action to take. Now Fiagai you poor little mite, do you desperately need me to inform you the very moment I decide about this matter for I am sure I cannot bear to think of you out of the loop for a single second? Or, just because of you should I provide my former username thus taking me back to a somewhat uncomfortable place so the great flipping Fiagai can have that feeling of control once more?! Given that I am far to polite I have indeed not added the appropriate swear words to my previous sentences!!!

Now for your next demand the "list" , although why you think you or the others you once more attempt to drag into this now somewhat personal matter would love to see is beyond me?! It follows

Bring Back Hunting
If you don't like the way of the countryside etc
Ban the Ban etc
150,000 people etc
I live for hunting

etc etc


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

amymay said:



			Ooooo Guido, be careful.  She might start battering you with her crop

Click to expand...

Glad I could help educate you


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

Now you may well laugh amymay but I find the personal nature now in the attitudes of some posters a little unnerving. Perhaps this is because I do not fully adhere to what is 'expected of me'. Well let me assure you we are not 'out in the field now darling', and I will of course if needs be look to the forum rules to protect me as any sensible thinking person would in a similar situation.


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## Amymay (18 May 2012)

Now you may well laugh amymay but I find the personal nature now in the attitudes of some posters a little unnerving.
		
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As you've been around HHO for so long, you'll know there's nothing unusual in some of the responses you've had.  I can't see anything posted to unnerve you, certainly you've not been harassed, threatened or bullied.

But if you want to beat a hasty retreat out of the thread - I think it's probably a good idea.  As there is little more to day, on either side.


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## Littlelegs (18 May 2012)

Yes, careful guido, or they'll be a 'horseriders against Guido16' Facebook page, & none of us will be able to defend you as we'll just get banned!


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

amymay said:



			As you've been around HHO for so long, you'll know there's nothing unusual in some of the responses you've had.  I can't see anything posted to unnerve you, certainly you've not been harassed, threatened or bullied.

But if you want to beat a hasty retreat out of the thread - I think it's probably a good idea.  As there is little more to day, on either side.
		
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Do you not think the unnerving may result from so many posts not about anything to do with the topic but directed simply at me for daring to post an opinion? Oh no of course not when looking from the inside out


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Yes, careful guido, or they'll be a 'horseriders against Guido16' Facebook page, & none of us will be able to defend you as we'll just get banned!
		
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How I wish I had crossed over to the section much sooner littlelegs. Some of you are hilarious


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## *Spider* (18 May 2012)

I am not for or against hunting, however, some of the comments shocked me! Some pictures of a horse in a grackle and martingale with comments of how shocking this was..... WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Amymay (18 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			Do you not think the unnerving may result from so many posts not about anything to do with the topic but directed simply at me for daring to post an opinion? Oh no of course not when looking from the inside out 

Click to expand...

Honestly?  No.

You've only got to look at other threads that cause a lot of debate and discussion.  They all have the same pattern.


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## smokey (18 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			Do you not think the unnerving may result from so many posts not about anything to do with the topic but directed simply at me for daring to post an opinion? Oh no of course not when looking from the inside out 

Click to expand...

I love that you are put out by the comments directed at you for daring to post an opinion! I'm put out by the fact that I was banned from your fb page for daring to post an opinion! As another poster said, pot and kettle springs to mind! I think that posters here have been pretty restrained in their comments to you, considering the foul and provocative statements regarding subjects on the fb page. Wishing a horse to be ok but it's rider dead IMO merits a stronger response than you have had here, perhaps we're just a bit more tolerant than your lot? Anyway, as we say in Scotland, away and boil yer head!


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

amymay said:



			Honestly?  No.

You've only got to look at other threads that cause a lot of debate and discussion.  They all have the same pattern.
		
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Fair enough. Guess I will have to toughen up.


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

smokey said:



			I love that you are put out by the comments directed at you for daring to post an opinion! I'm put out by the fact that I was banned from your fb page for daring to post an opinion! As another poster said, pot and kettle springs to mind! I think that posters here have been pretty restrained in their comments to you, considering the foul and provocative statements regarding subjects on the fb page. Wishing a horse to be ok but it's rider dead IMO merits a stronger response than you have had here, perhaps we're just a bit more tolerant than your lot? Anyway, as we say in Scotland, away and boil yer head!
		
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My fb page? It has absolutely nothing to do with me thank you very much nor have any of the posts!!!


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## smokey (18 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			My fb page? It has absolutely nothing to do with me thank you very much nor have any of the posts!!!
		
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My apologies, not your Facebook page! Obviously I got the wrong end of the stick and any minute now you will tell us all that you have no sympathies at all with said fb.


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## Fiagai (18 May 2012)

Fiagai said:



			... I can find no previous explanation of why you 'changed' your user name (and for all the readers out there - if indeed you were a regular HHO forum member previously and indeed changed your username - your post count would have carried, funny enough it hasn't!).  Do please explain or at least link to your explanation of this (and I note that you also said that you would revert to your original username - another singular lie or inaccuracy perhaps?)
....
		
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DawnRay said:



			....What trivial nonsense are you on upon now?!  I am exactly the same person I have always been. I have told everybody that I chose to change a mere forum 'username'. Have I been 'outed'?? NO Have I pretended to be someone I am not?? NO Have I lied?? NO
		
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Yes it would appear so...

You disclaim too much with nothing to back up what you say

I and others have asked several times for an explanation of your claimed 'change' of HHO user name

So without further ado Answer the question that has been put to you...

Then we can make up our own minds

Thanks


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

Are you for real fiagai?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your question has been fully answered and if that does not satisfy then tough.


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## Fiagai (18 May 2012)

Yes DR I am very real thank you for asking...



DawnRay said:



			...So much as reverting to my original username now noted as your suggestion at my "singular lie or inaccuracy", please refer to post 102 of this thread. Read, digest and then perhaps get over ones self xx
		
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For everyones benefit THIS is Post 102



DawnRay said:



			...
I did explain why at the time I changed my username but I have as you note decided to stick with it for now. I am rather enjoying getting a little more involved in the forum this way. It has encouraged me to be less shy and open.
		
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Where is the previous explanation as mentioned by your good self?  I cant find it so DO please enlighten us all...

Today you said....


DawnRay said:



			...
As for my "lie", regarding change of user name for which you 'call upon all these persons here present to witness' ...Not that it is of any of your business I received some unwanted attention via e-mail and decided to use a new e-mail address creating a new user account whilst I considered what course of action to take.
		
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 _...(diatribe removed for clarity reasons - I suspect DR has lost the run of themselves entirely - These paragraphs made no sense whatsoever )_

So your 'change' of name - just happened at the moment when you decided to open an attack on the HHO Hunt forum Members?  Well well such a coincidence.  Do you know you could 'hide' your email address without changing your user name?  No but then I suspect the truth doesn't bother you too much does it?

So my previous post stands DO please try and come up a 'better', explanation.

Oh and I do extend my apologies for seeming as you see it 'too clever' I often forget that this can be intimidating to the thick and beligerant....


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

My explanation stands Fiagai and if you do not like it I guess you know what you can do


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## Fiagai (18 May 2012)

The famous Post 102


DawnRay said:



			I did explain why at the time I changed my username ...
		
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Still cant show where you 'explained' no?  You surprise me, you really do 



DawnRay said:



			My explanation stands Fiagai and if you do not like it I guess you know what you can do
		
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Well I guess you are well and truly busted dawnray or whatever you will be calling yourself tomorrow....

And I see like most of your ilk, you are politeness personified indeed!


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

I think I have been far more polite than necessary given some of the silly name calling but sticks and stones fiagai, stick and silly little stones


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

Fiagai said:



			Still cant show where you 'explained' no?  You surprise me, you really do 

Click to expand...

If you cannot see where I clearly have explained why I changed my username then you are blind.


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## Fiagai (18 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			If you cannot see where I clearly have explained why I changed my username then you are blind.
		
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Do you really believe that posters here are stupid as you seem to presume they are?

You Said Today:




			Originally Posted by DawnRay  
...So much as reverting to my original username now noted as your suggestion at my "singular lie or inaccuracy", _please refer to post 102 of this thread. Read, digest and then perhaps get over ones self _xx
		
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*For everyones benefit 

THIS is the original Post 102*




			Originally Posted by DawnRay  
...
_*I did explain why at the time I changed my username*_ but I have as you note decided to stick with it for now. I am rather enjoying getting a little more involved in the forum this way. It has encouraged me to be less shy and open.
		
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WHERE OH WHERE _*DID YOU EXPLAIN AT THE TIME YOU CHANGED YOUR USERNAME?*_?  Please do explain?

Backtracking won't make your glibness any less obvious


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## EAST KENT (18 May 2012)

Jeeez I see Verbal Dysentry is still at it..Bye..


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## Fiagai (18 May 2012)

EAST KENT said:



			Jeeez I see Verbal Dysentry is still at it..Bye..

Click to expand...

Aye indeed  its getting messy in here EK - need to get local authority to look at the drains there is the very bad smell prevalent


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

Fiagai said:



			Do you really believe that posters here are stupid as you seem to presume they are?

You Said Today:

*For everyones benefit 

THIS is the original Post 102*



WHERE OH WHERE _*DID YOU EXPLAIN AT THE TIME YOU CHANGED YOUR USERNAME?*_?  Please do explain?

Backtracking won't make your glibness any less obvious
		
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I don't need to backtrack you just need to read what I have posted and stop trying to be cleverer than you think you are.
I never said I explained 'at the time I changed my mind'. Had that of been the case I would have posted to you " I did explain at the time WHY I changed my username".

HOWEVER what I actually posted to you as you flipping know was " I did explain WHY at the time I changed my username. Quite simply fiagai I may with hindsight have been more correct to post a comma after the WHY in my actual words. As for YOU. OMG you have serious issues and see espionage at every turn


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

I will do you a favour fiagai. I will let you call me what you choose because it is very clear how much it would choke you to have to admit in your desperate attempt to discredit me YOU actually misunderstood what I was saying and then stupidly went on and on about it


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## Fiagai (18 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			I don't need to backtrack you just need to read what I have posted and stop trying to be cleverer than you think you are.
I never said I explained 'at the time I changed my mind'. Had that of been the case I would have posted to you " I did explain at the time WHY I changed my username".

HOWEVER what I actually posted to you as you flipping know was " I did explain WHY at the time I changed my username. Quite simply fiagai I may with hindsight have been more correct to post a comma after the WHY in my actual words. As for YOU. OMG you have serious issues and see espionage at every turn 

Click to expand...


Its quite easy to spot BS tbh, it doesn't take much skill...I have asked where is this original post you claim to have explained about your Usename ???(not 102 btw)  I can't find it nor can you. The use of a comma still does not explain your very sudden appearance on HHO when the Idiots against Horseriding Thread was being discused. You have been deliberatly obtuse and have attempted (badly) to create a persona around your claimed previous HHO profile so as to appear ' genuine'  I have called this out as it shows you for what youy are.  So now finally I am taking the shovel off you now so you cant dig any more...YOU HAVE BEEN BUSTED!


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

Bye bye fiagai


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

p.s fiagai. I knew it was choking you but nice side step


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## Fiagai (18 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			I will do you a favour fiagai. I will let you call me what you choose because it is very clear how much it would choke you to have to admit in your desperate attempt to discredit me YOU actually misunderstood what I was saying and then stupidly went on and on about it 

Click to expand...

No definitly proven otherwise...sorry



DawnRay said:



			Bye bye fiagai 

Click to expand...




DawnRay said:



			p.s fiagai. I knew it was choking you but nice side step 

Click to expand...

Hmmm who is going on and on and on and on...nope sorry you still dont wash and the smell continues to linger.....


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## DawnRay (18 May 2012)

Fiagai said:



			No definitly proven otherwise...sorry





Hmmm who is going on and on and on and on...nope sorry you still dont wash and the smell continues to linger.....

Click to expand...

Still talking to me


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## EAST KENT (19 May 2012)

Pass it a couple of boxes of Imodium for pity`s sake


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## Fiagai (19 May 2012)

EAST KENT said:



			Pass it a couple of boxes of Imodium for pity`s sake  

Click to expand...

...and a mop!


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## DragonSlayer (19 May 2012)




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## Alec Swan (28 May 2012)

I notice that Dawn Ray's name has gone a bit dark.  Anyone know what's happened?  Not banned,  surely! 

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (28 May 2012)

DawnRay said:



			Still talking to me 

Click to expand...

Fiagai,  you missed your chance,  "For now"  would have been a suitable response!! 

Alec.


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## EAST KENT (29 May 2012)

AAhh,she`ll be missed


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## Fiagai (30 May 2012)

Alec Swan said:



			Fiagai,  you missed your chance,  "For now"  would have been a suitable response!! 

Alec.
		
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Thanks for that Alec, I'm afraid my interest was waning somewhat at the rather monosyllabic and moronic posts.  Oh well I think we will have another of the same before long   You know how it is....


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## happyhunter123 (30 May 2012)

Hm, I may be a bit late here, as this discussion seems to have moved away from the original topic but I have to say I have never seen such a nasty, hate filled Facebook page as this one.


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