# Well this is a can of worms



## sunleychops (8 October 2012)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/314392.html


Fuller Fillies are now making saddles up to 22 inch seat. I'm sorry but if you know you are a heavy person then you ought to know you are too heavy to ride. 

When your arse sticks out wider than the horses, you know you have issues.


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## mcnaughty (8 October 2012)

Agree with everything written in the article - yep can of worms .......


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## YasandCrystal (8 October 2012)

chrisritch said:



http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/314392.html


Fuller Fillies are now making saddles up to 22 inch seat. I'm sorry but if you know you are a heavy person then you ought to know you are too heavy to ride. 

When your arse sticks out wider than the horses, you know you have issues.
		
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I agree it's quite ridiculous as few horses can take an 18" saddle let alone one bigger than that   Why would a very tall person need a 22" seat? That doesn't make sense to me.


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## YorksG (8 October 2012)

YasandCrystal said:



			I agree it's quite ridiculous as few horses can take an 18" saddle let alone one bigger than that   Why would a very tall person need a 22" seat? That doesn't make sense to me.
		
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Where is the evidence that very few horses can take an 18" saddle? I have known/do know a large number who do with no problem.
A tall person would need a longer saddle due to the length of their thigh bones.


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## Amymay (8 October 2012)

I think regardless of what your views are about the bigger rider - they're out there, and there is a market for the saddles.

We all expect to sit on a saddle that fits horse and rider - and the bigger rider is no different.  

It's a win, win situation.


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## YasandCrystal (8 October 2012)

YorksG said:



			Where is the evidence that very few horses can take an 18" saddle? I have known/do know a large number who do with no problem.
A tall person would need a longer saddle due to the length of their thigh bones.
		
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Every horse I have owned could never have worn an 18" saddle and I have had some big horses; so I judge it on my experience and that of friends saddle sizes. 

Unless one is riding like they are sitting in an armchair I disagree that the seat size needs to be increased - surely just a longer flapped saddle? On your theory WFP would need a saddle of 24" inches


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

It's not a 22" seat in the pic and the model is one of our lovely HHOers by the way. 

I have a 17 1/2 inch saddle on a 13.2 because of my long legs not my fat backside and it is a perfect fit for her. Depending on the saddle shape plenty of horses would be able to take more than an 18" saddle and having a saddle which fits both horse and rider distributes weight more evenly anyway.


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## YorksG (8 October 2012)

Out of the horses we have owned over the years, only three have not been able to carry an 18" saddle, one being my current Appy, who can only manage a 16 1/2". Sisters ID mare, we were told by a saddler, could have carried a 20" with no problem. The length of the seat, in conjunction with where the stirrup bars are, has a bearing on the riders position, so that would be another variable with the larger seated saddle. At 5' 6", with long thigh bones, I have to compromise my position on my mares saddle. It is the length of the horses back, not it's height which dictates the length of saddle.


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

YasandCrystal said:



			Every horse I have owned could never have worn an 18" saddle and I have had some big horses; so I judge it on my experience and that of friends saddle sizes. 

:
		
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It depends completely on the cut of the saddle.  An 18" in one style /make will take up less of the back than an 18" in another style.


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## Sparkles (8 October 2012)

I don't mean this offensively, just as a genuine general comment, but, if a horse has the conformational length for a 22" saddle, does it really have that capability/strength to take more weight without suffering stress/break down over time?

Again. I'm sure they did all this in trials and tests with it. But, that was just my first thought.


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## YorksG (8 October 2012)

ChristmasSparkles said:



			I don't mean this offensively, just as a genuine general comment, but, if a horse has the conformational length for a 22" saddle, does it really have that capability/strength to take more weight without suffering stress/break down over time?

Again. I'm sure they did all this in trials and tests with it. But, that was just my first thought.
		
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I think that is a really good question, the longer back a horse has, then surely the less stable it is? The long backed ID I mentioned above had done a lot of jumping before we got her and she did have back issues, so I would have thought it could be a problem.

And just another point about 18" saddles and which horses can wear them, my Old Appy at 15.3 had one, which fitted her perfectly, the current Appy can only manage a 16 1/2" one. The first was rangy, the second very compact.


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## thatsmygirl (8 October 2012)

I think a 22in saddle is mad. I agree with christmassparkles that would be a long back surely to take that length? And long backs are ment to be weaker.


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## Sparkles (8 October 2012)

YorksG said:



			I think that is a really good question, the longer back a horse has, then surely the less stable it is? The long backed ID I mentioned above had done a lot of jumping before we got her and she did have back issues, so I would have thought it could be a problem.

And just another point about 18" saddles and which horses can wear them, my Old Appy at 15.3 had one, which fitted her perfectly, the current Appy can only manage a 16 1/2" one. The first was rangy, the second very compact.
		
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Again. I did not mean it offensively, so glad it wasn't taken that way. 

My lad, again, could carry an 18" saddle, though I ride him in a 17.5". I'm aware he has a long back and I feel like I am erring on the side of heavy for him as a regular rider at 12 stone. That's not me being OTT about my weight, but, just me knowing my horse and what he could withstand. I wouldn't advise anyone heavier than that to ride him, as I don't honestly think he's got  the conformation for it. But that said, he IS a TB, and one with incorrect conformation ideally, and not bred to be that, so not really uncommon.

Even some of our big HW hunters....yes, they were perfectly capable of taking as much weight needed as that's their type, but, they still had spot on conformation and were not long in the back, so still were 18" saddles at an absolute push. The majority, still wore 17.5".
Long backs are always drilled to be conformation faults, and more prone to injury, so I wouldn't think of them as being able to be weight carriers.

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/217353_1026902726623_4172_n.jpg

17.3hh ID.

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/2586_1076735452410_5200308_n.jpg

18.3hh Shire x TB.


Same goes for the cobs. Up to the weight, that's no problem, but should be short backed and strong, so again, most are 16.5-17" saddles. 

Which I think, where the problems lie. I'm not opposed to weight at all, as there's plenty of horses out there who can cope with that no problem, but, I just don't see how, a 22" seat is physically possible that's all.

I'm curious if anyone could explain or expand on that at to me all, as I'm happy to see the reasoning


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## Elsbells (8 October 2012)

When you look at the size of a stock or western saddle...size???

I have an 18" saddle on my 16h SFx and she loves it and is very happy. She had several back issues when I bought her and had been ridden and jumped in a lot smaller saddle. Sometimes I think riders use a saddle much to small for the horse they are riding and that must cause a lot of problems as the weight isn't distributed equally which causes pressure points? OMO


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## Littlelegs (8 October 2012)

Ditto cs on the long backed problem. And don't see that height calls for 22" saddles. I have 36" inside legs, & because I sit correctly, i.e. not like an armchair I can easily do anything but jump in a 15" saddle without compromising my position. Admittedly I have a scrawny backside & ride long, but I would still expect someone with legs my length, an average size bum & even normal length stirrups to fit in an 18" saddle at the most. 
  So for me a 22" saddle encourages the view that its ok for the massively too heavy to ride. And by too heavy, I don't mean in a personal health or appearance way, I mean simply too heavy for a horse. Nobody expects tutus or leotards in sizes to fit the massively overweight, its considered standard you would achieve a vague level of fitness before partaking. And I fail to see why riding should be any different.


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## Batgirl (8 October 2012)

chrisritch said:



			I'm sorry but if you know you are a heavy person then you ought to know you are too heavy to ride.
		
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This I find rather sweeping, I know I am heavy, I also know I am balanced, that I get my horses back checked regularly and actually know how to school my horse in order to develop his back muscles, I am fairly sure there are some lovely 9 stone riders on horses with weak backs that do a lot of damage.  There is no black and white here.  For the record I weigh 17 Stone and I know I am NOT too heavy to ride the horse I have.

I rarely get drawn into the heavy rider debates because they go no where, those that think I shouldn't ride aren't going to change my mind, I doubt I would change theirs and small minded people aren't going to make me sell my horse.  This comment just made me boil.


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## crabbymare (8 October 2012)

Thinking back the very old fashioned serge lined half panel saddles that were used on the wider hunters and cobs used to have a wider top to the seat and flatter wider panels for the horses back without being long. if these were used as a starting idea I think there would be a good market for them from the larger rider and although the rider on the h&h article is on the bigger side I have seen a lot of people bigger and who really do need a saddle with a seat wide enough for their bums so that they are comfortable and which would spread the weight ont he horse back but I am not sure that making the saddle longer is the answer.


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## Nicnac (8 October 2012)

The MD of Fuller Fillies, Suzanne Wild, has said she doubts they would be asked to produce a 22in seat but that all saddles would be fitted by a qualified saddler. This is followed by a member of SMS saying it would be an issue to fit. 

Is Horse & Hound turning into the Daily Fail? Is the story is a load of tosh & FF are getting some free publicity......


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## Clava (8 October 2012)

Elsbells said:



			When you look at the size of a stock or western saddle...size???

I have an 18" saddle on my 16h SFx and she loves it and is very happy. She had several back issues when I bought her and had been ridden and jumped in a lot smaller saddle. Sometimes I think riders use a saddle much to small for the horse they are riding and that must cause a lot of problems as the weight isn't distributed equally which causes pressure points? OMO

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In the US they have a different view as to what is acceptable. 

http://www.horseforum.com/plus-sized-riders/anyone-brave-enough-post-98650/


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## Wagtail (8 October 2012)

Clava said:



			In the US they have a different view as to what is acceptable. 

http://www.horseforum.com/plus-sized-riders/anyone-brave-enough-post-98650/

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OMG!  Looking at all those pictures has really upset me. It is just appalling cruelty in some cases. Most of the horses look so miserable.


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## rhino (8 October 2012)

Clava said:



			In the US they have a different view as to what is acceptable. 

http://www.horseforum.com/plus-sized-riders/anyone-brave-enough-post-98650/

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I'm not so sure they do; have seen plenty similar threads to the ones on here on US forums. That is a 'plus sized riders' forum, so hardly representative I would have thought - you can find a forum for almost anything now!


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## Clava (8 October 2012)

rhino said:



			I'm not so sure they do; have seen plenty similar threads to the ones on here on US forums. That is a 'plus sized riders' forum, so hardly representative I would have thought - you can find a forum for almost anything now! 

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The threads on the main forum are usually very supportive of very large riders, not just in the separate forum (it was just the simplest example to find), over here even on a "plus sized rider section"  photos such as those would receive comment.


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## Littlelegs (8 October 2012)

Those pics are shocking, just cruelty imo. But agree with rhino, its not a us thing. Just like minded wierdos who have banded together in order to convince themselves that their warped views on overloading their horses are acceptable. Being overweight is fine, provided the horse can carry you happily.


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## Clava (8 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Those pics are shocking, just cruelty imo. But agree with rhino, its not a us thing. Just like minded wierdos who have banded together in order to convince themselves that their warped views on overloading their horses are acceptable. Being overweight is fine, provided the horse can carry you happily.
		
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Is there a UK equivalent forum then??? do we have the same groups of people?


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## tallyho! (8 October 2012)

YorksG said:



			Where is the evidence that very few horses can take an 18" saddle? I have known/do know a large number who do with no problem.
A tall person would need a longer saddle due to the length of their thigh bones.
		
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Why would they need a longer saddle? You don't sit on your thighbones, you sit on your seatbones. A saddle is not a chair.

If I were to fit a saddle for tall people, it would be stirrup length I would suggest adjusting, not the saddle length!


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## Angelbones (8 October 2012)

I find the original HHo article confusing / misleading 

Without intending to offend the person in the pic, I think using that image with the article implies that a WIDER seat saddle may be made to accommodate larger riders with a wider bottom, rather than a LONGER saddle to accommodate much taller riders. The company referred to is Fuller Fillies after all, not Long Tall Sally . Perhaps a more appropriate pic would have been more helpful. I think we are all right in our thinking that it would be a particularly tall rider who may need a 22" saddle, rather than a heavier rider who would, unless of course you are talking about a very tall, particularly heavy rider?  and I don't know many of those. 

My horse is 16.1 and I am about 5'9, currently weighing around 12st but normally riding at 11st. He is short backed and he wears an Albion 18" saddle. He accommodates it easily. I had the same size saddle on my previous horse; a 15.1 mare with some substance, again it was a good fit.


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## Chavhorse (8 October 2012)

Nicnac said:



			The MD of Fuller Fillies, Suzanne Wild, has said she doubts they would be asked to produce a 22in seat but that all saddles would be fitted by a qualified saddler. This is followed by a member of SMS saying it would be an issue to fit. 

Is Horse & Hound turning into the Daily Fail? Is the story is a load of tosh & FF are getting some free publicity......
		
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If the saddle is of the same quality as the rest of their tat then I doubt they will sell very many so may be a moot point!


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## YasandCrystal (8 October 2012)

I found those pictures upsetting. I am sorry I understand about a muscular man weighing perhaps a great deal, but this is not about weight alone and an obese person such as those in the pictures can have no core stability imo. Should the horse spook and shy (if they physically could with that weight on them) then the force of the riders weight on the one side would be tremendous.
One person talks of the horse being known to put in a buck - I cannot believe a horse so overloaded could possibly buck.


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## rhino (8 October 2012)

Angelbones said:



			I think we are all right in our thinking that it would be a particularly tall rider who may need a 22" saddle, rather than a heavier rider who would, unless of course you are talking about a very tall, particularly heavy rider?  and I don't know many of those.
		
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I'd say WFP is pretty tall and he's been quoted several times as using either 17" or 17 1/2" saddles


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## tallyho! (8 October 2012)

rhino said:



			I'd say WFP is pretty tall and he's been quoted several times as using either 17" or 17 1/2" saddles  

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Thats because he uses his seatbones and not his legs to sit in a saddle  

oh, and he isn't four miles wide


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## Littlelegs (8 October 2012)

No idea clava, but the us is a lot bigger anyway so easier to find like minded freaks with a bigger population. I've certainly seen something similar here, think it was a Facebook group a while back iirc.


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## Wagtail (8 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			No idea clava, but the us is a lot bigger anyway so easier to find like minded freaks with a bigger population. I've certainly seen something similar here, think it was a Facebook group a while back iirc.
		
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Yes it was run by this person www.diet2ride.com also a member on here.


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## Polotash (8 October 2012)

Clava said:



			In the US they have a different view as to what is acceptable. 

http://www.horseforum.com/plus-sized-riders/anyone-brave-enough-post-98650/

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Did anyone read as far as the discussion on people getting their "excess flesh", bra's and "pants" hung up on the horn of their western saddles?! I know I shouldn't but I did snigger/ cringe!


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## Buds_mum (8 October 2012)

is anyone looking at the pics on that forum with a face like this 


*some* look fine, on good stocky (i presume qh? and cobby types) others are on like what look 14hh shp!!! madness really.


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## touchstone (8 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Being overweight is fine, provided the horse can carry you happily.
		
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I'd agree with this; one comment on the other forum was the the horse 'didn't once stagger with me', as if this is how you judge a horse is overloaded 

I agree that the saddle seems to be being marketed for overweight larger riders rather than taller riders, the simple fact that it is being made by 'fuller fillies' alone suggests it is.

We have managed for centuries without using such large saddles, seems sad that we are resorting to them now.


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## Polotash (8 October 2012)

touchstone said:



			I'd agree with this; one comment on the other forum was the the horse 'didn't once stagger with me', as if this is how you judge a horse is overloaded 

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Totally agree.


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## Orangehorse (8 October 2012)

I agree with the majority who think that a 22" saddle is going to be too big for nearly every horse.

I use a 171/2 or 18" saddle on my 16hh horse, but he is both broad and quite long backed, and I need the man's saddle (as it was sold to me) as I have a long thigh, but I don't have big backside.

What about the old army style saddles?  I have used one of these at a trecking centre, where the saddles were designed so that even if the rider sat at the back of the saddle in a slumped position, they were not sitting on the b ack of the saddle as the weight bearing bars extended behind the seat - but they didn't go back all that far, and they used a good thick saddle pad underneath.

Looking at the photo it is more about being broad sideways rather than length.


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## Amymay (8 October 2012)

Batgirl said:



			This I find rather sweeping, I know I am heavy, I also know I am balanced, that I get my horses back checked regularly and actually know how to school my horse in order to develop his back muscles, I am fairly sure there are some lovely 9 stone riders on horses with weak backs that do a lot of damage.  There is no black and white here.  For the record I weigh 17 Stone and I know I am NOT too heavy to ride the horse I have.

I rarely get drawn into the heavy rider debates because they go no where, those that think I shouldn't ride aren't going to change my mind, I doubt I would change theirs and small minded people aren't going to make me sell my horse.  This comment just made me boil.
		
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Do you think you should be 'fit' to ride? Or fit really to do any of our chosen sports?


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## Wagtail (8 October 2012)

What gets me, is that they do not feel ashamed or embarassed about it. If I was unfortunate enough to put on that much weight, there is no way I would sit on a horse, not only because I would feel cruel, but because I would worry about what other people would think. I have always been skinny until the past year when I was put onto some pills to help with my severe morning sickness (non pregnancy related). The pills give me a ravenous appetite and I piled on 20 pounds in 4 months. Okay, so that only took me to ten and a half stone, half a stone of which I have now lost. But I have, for the first time in my life had to deal with being a foodaholic. I totally get why these people cannot stop eating. It is REALLY HARD. I lost the half stone but it is a constant daily battle not to pile the weight back on. Of course, I could just come off the pills, and I tried that, but found that I couldn't function as my nausea had more than doubled in intensity. I don't mind staying on them though as they have completely stopped my migraines and my allergic itching. However, I now have rolls of fat that I never have had before and I HATE it. What I am saying, is that I know how hard it is to resist food when you are a foodie, but it can be done, and getting/staying slim enough to ride should be a major incentive.


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## Montyforever (8 October 2012)

All the heavy horses I have known (cobs/shires/Clydesdale/percherons etc) have all been short backed so can't see many of them taking a 22inch saddle! I'm not skinny but felt fine in a 18inch saddle ..


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## Beausmate (8 October 2012)

Polotash said:



			Did anyone read as far as the discussion on people getting their "excess flesh", bra's and "pants" hung up on the horn of their western saddles?! I know I shouldn't but I did snigger/ cringe!
		
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Yep, I read it.  With a kind of horrified fascination 

I reckon some of those women must weigh nearly as much as the horses they're squashing.  Certainly more than 20% of the horses' weight anyway.


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## rhino (8 October 2012)

TBH I think *most* of the riders on the linked thread look fine, and there are some stunning horses and ponies and some great looking partnerships.

I'm more stunned at the state of the horses and the ill fitting tack (upside down bits and bridles put on back to front - i.e. browband behind ears  ). Think I'll stick to CoTH


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## Littlelegs (8 October 2012)

I also hate the way these debates always end up with people thinking its fat bashing, when its really down to the horses ability to carry you.


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## Hippona (8 October 2012)

Clava said:



			In the US they have a different view as to what is acceptable. 

http://www.horseforum.com/plus-sized-riders/anyone-brave-enough-post-98650/

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Anyone noticed a lot of the horses have odd stances, and very few seem to be tracking up...

One actually looks to be sinking slowly into the ground.....


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## Buds_mum (8 October 2012)

Hippona said:



			One actually looks to be sinking slowly into the ground.....
		
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Just spat tea everywhere


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## Polotash (8 October 2012)

Buds_mum said:



			Just spat tea everywhere 

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Haha, me too. Seriously tho, imagine them riding over soft sand or new forest bog... the horse would literally sink, the rider wouldn't be nimble enough to bale, and the pair would end up stuck. Not funny when you think it through :0(


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## Hippona (8 October 2012)

I mean...come one.

Surely when you can't get off your horse because 'excess flesh' is getting in the way its time to trim at least a little bit off.....


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## mcnaughty (8 October 2012)

YorksG said:



			Where is the evidence that very few horses can take an 18" saddle? I have known/do know a large number who do with no problem.
A tall person would need a longer saddle due to the length of their thigh bones.
		
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I don't believe the 22" relates to the flap length but the seat length - not sure what this would have to do with the length of someone's legs???


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

Clava said:



			In the US they have a different view as to what is acceptable. 

http://www.horseforum.com/plus-sized-riders/anyone-brave-enough-post-98650/

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Well that was an education


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

Hippona said:




Anyone noticed a lot of the horses have odd stances, and very few seem to be tracking up...

One actually looks to be sinking slowly into the ground.....
		
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I only got to page 19 but the appy early on is kind of a perfect example. It looks miserable in every pic except the one where she is slimmed down.


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## sunleychops (8 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			I only got to page 19 but the appy early on is kind of a perfect example. It looks miserable in every pic except the one where she is slimmed down.
		
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Its probably terrified of being eaten


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## Batgirl (8 October 2012)

amymay said:



			Do you think you should be 'fit' to ride? Or fit really to do any of our chosen sports?
		
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Absolutely I do, and I am an athlete hence knowing my body very well (my chosen sports include playing rugby north of England, county netball, hockey and basketball, badminton and horseriding).  Fit and heavy aren't mutually exclusive, neither are fit and fat (though tend to be more so)

If the comment had said you know when you are too unfit/unbalanced to ride I would have agreed totally


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## Littlelegs (8 October 2012)

Pmsl! I think in the last pic on the first page 'me squashing dancer on a trail' the poster is using the 20% guide. Unfortunately, the wrong way round with poor horse weighing 20% of what she does.


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## Batgirl (8 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			I also hate the way these debates always end up with people thinking its fat bashing, when its really down to the horses ability to carry you.
		
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The thread started as fat bashing (including the comment that incensed me), people still make sweeping statements along the lines of no one over 13st should ride (though admittedly not on this one yet).  Though there are some very balanced and educated views often the ones that get noticed are rude, thoughtless and plain wrong (in my opinion ).

Haven't looked at the thread that everyone's looking at but as several people have pointed out including you it about the horses ability to comfortably carry you and the combination of horse and rider.


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## Amymay (8 October 2012)

Batgirl said:



			Absolutely I do, and I am an athlete hence knowing my body very well (my chosen sports include playing rugby north of England, county netball, hockey and basketball, badminton and horseriding).  Fit and heavy aren't mutually exclusive, neither are fit and fat (though tend to be more so)
		
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So your weight is muscle, as opposed to fat then - which of course is a different kettle of fish all together, I agree.


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## sunleychops (8 October 2012)

Just to point out I have no problem with muscular or bigger built people riding,
Its just amorphous fat blobs just wobbling about on top of a horse far too small for them that gets me


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Pmsl! I think in the last pic on the first page 'me squashing dancer on a trail' the poster is using the 20% guide. Unfortunately, the wrong way round with poor horse weighing 20% of what she does.
		
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I am not laughing, really I'm not . I am laughing at the skinny people who have clearly posted to be told they are not plus size. 

I am still looking at the thread. It's addictive.


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

Oh hell. These folk wouldn't last five mins in here. Post 327 has the bridle on back to front.


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## Batgirl (8 October 2012)

chrisritch said:



			Its just amorphous fat blobs just wobbling about
		
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Fair do's then, we agree  And credit for the above quote


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## mandwhy (8 October 2012)

I don't see why they shouldn't manufacture such a saddle if it is suitable for horse and rider. True most horses I know wouldn't take much more than 18 inch but every now and then I see a picture or hear about an 18 or 19 hand horse and think 'that must be the biggest horse I've seen' so if its fitted professionally, why not, and sometimes the seat is bigger than the panels to give a little bit more space. Better spread the weight than perching on top of a too small saddle! 

I do find the attitudes of some people in the UK quite ludicrous when it comes to weight limits, trouble is these decisions seem to be made by 9 stone women and the thought of anyone weighing 5 or 6 stone more than them riding any horse doesn't make sense to them. I have a big tall fitness obsessed south African friend who was going to go trail riding in SA and wanted to have a brush up lesson or two first, couldn't find a riding school to take him as he is about 16 stone and built, not even those that clearly had heavy weight hunters and draught horses. What did he ride over there? Some 15 hand Arab type of course! 

Likewise their uncle breeds Arabs for endurance and is of similar height and weight. He obviously doesn't know anything about horses though because he is not a bhs gold member ;-) 

Whether you have to be fit to ride depends on how fit you mean, I am overweight but not really drastically so for my height, I am fit enough as I do a fair bit of walking and the usual horse related chores help, but I wouldn't say I'd be much good at running or those sorts of intensive cardio sports.


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## combat_claire (8 October 2012)

It seems from my reading of this forum that everyone is always worrying about their horse's fitness for hunting and other activities yet we don't seem to pay half as much attention to our own fitness to ride. 

I play rugby union and we wouldn't dream of turning up to play a match unfit and unprepared for 80 minutes of rugby. I don't see why riding should be any different. 

Over the last few months I have started taking my fitness deadly serious. I am in the gym most mornings, I've been doing boxercise, whipping in to the mink hounds, rugby training and all sorts of other bits. As a result I have lost a stone, muscled up in my arms and legs. My instructor says my position and seat have improved. I can't help thinking that the two are directly linked.


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## smokey (8 October 2012)

Oh dear, some of these women must weigh nearly as much as their horses! One in particular looked as if her bum had started to eat the poor horse!


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## Ibblebibble (8 October 2012)

Polotash said:



			Did anyone read as far as the discussion on people getting their "excess flesh", bra's and "pants" hung up on the horn of their western saddles?! I know I shouldn't but I did snigger/ cringe!
		
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Hippona said:




Anyone noticed a lot of the horses have odd stances, and very few seem to be tracking up...

One actually looks to be sinking slowly into the ground.....
		
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littlelegs said:



			Pmsl! I think in the last pic on the first page 'me squashing dancer on a trail' the poster is using the 20% guide. Unfortunately, the wrong way round with poor horse weighing 20% of what she does.
		
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oh please stop, i am laughing so hard i hurt!  there are some mighty big girls on that there forum, 

there is a lady i know who rides in a treeless saddle, she is a big girl and he's an aged 17hh WB, her stomach hangs over the front of her saddle and she's constantly having to shift her weight over to one side to reposition the saddle it's not good and people have told her but she will not listen


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## Crosshill Pacers (8 October 2012)

Ibblebibble said:



			oh please stop, i am laughing so hard i hurt!  there are some mighty big girls on that there forum
		
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Well now you've gone and distracted me well and truly from work with that forum!


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## TheSylv007 (8 October 2012)

Clava said:



			In the US they have a different view as to what is acceptable. 

http://www.horseforum.com/plus-sized-riders/anyone-brave-enough-post-98650/

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Jesus wept.  How can these people possibly think that it is fair to ride while in that sort of shape.  I think the people on that forum's perception is completely out of whack, only Stevie Wonder could think that they are not too big.


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## misterjinglejay (8 October 2012)

I am a large lady (although trying not to be ) and I too would be worried about the length of back needed to wear a 22".
I started out needing an 18", and have gone down to a 17/17.5", and my arse is huge, so I would be concerned about damage to the horses back if someone couldn't fit an 18"


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## martyfisch (8 October 2012)

There's video on page 80... (I got bored and skipped through every 10 pages)


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## Littlelegs (8 October 2012)

Mandwhy, I don't think as a 9stone woman I have the right to decide who can/can't ride. My bodyweight has no bearing on my ability to reason what a horse should, as opposed to can, carry. The fact is, some people are too big for some horses. Whether that's me on a fine 12hh pony, or some big lard ass on that website riding a small horse. My boyfriend weighs 15stone, its not the fact I'm light that makes me say he can't ride my 14.2, just the fact he's too big. And I really can't think of any horse able to take a 22" saddle. Likewise, I can't think of anyone large & healthy (i.e. not large & just flabby) who would require a 22" saddle either.


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## Ahrena (8 October 2012)

I    ED at the one that says "I think Airess is carrying me just fine even though he's only two" !!

Mind you she isn't one of the biggest on there, but still...


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## Irishcobs (8 October 2012)

I had my saddle (18") fitted to my Belgian draught x (17hh, takes 7ft rugs) by the saddler in the article. 
I can easily fit my backside in a 17" saddle and did so on this horse but for jumping I couldn't get my stirrups high enough as she has a big, active jump and my knees would be over the front of the saddle. We decided on a 18" slightly more forward cut saddle so I could get my stirrups high enough. 
I have gone from jumping 2ft3 to 3ft3 happily with this saddle. 
I think this must be what they mean by length of thigh bone. 
My gelding can only take a 17" saddle and therefore I have to jump him with longer stirrups, making it harder for me.


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## Spyda (8 October 2012)

I am picturing this and may be scarred for life....




			Bra on the horn is a killer. Have gotten hung up once and it scared me silly. I think I keep my hand on the horn, my left, so that my bra can't get over it. *But, I have had my pants get hung up on the horn, my wasteband, when the hrose I was riding reared and I leaned forward and found my "evil twin" (my muffin top family) going over the horn. Then, when said horse started to buck, I could not sit up straight and ended up literally hanging off the side of a bucking horse, by the waistband of my pants.* That was a bad moment in my head, but pants ripped and laid me down in the dirt, nice and gently.
		
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I'm no lightweight myself ATM (at 12.5 stone) but if my bra and/or knickers started getting in the way of me dismounting my horse, I'd DEFINITELY think it was time to give up riding and start knitting or something.

Eeeek.... just read a bit further....




			She only weighs 250ish...
		
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_Only?_


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## Luci07 (8 October 2012)

There seems to be a big deal made abut 18" and 17 or 17.5". One of mine was put in a 18" because it fitted him better.  The others are in 17.5 ..


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## *hic* (8 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Mandwhy, I don't think as a 9stone woman I have the right to decide who can/can't ride. My bodyweight has no bearing on my ability to reason what a horse should, as opposed to can, carry. The fact is, some people are too big for some horses. Whether that's me on a fine 12hh pony, or some big lard ass on that website riding a small horse. My boyfriend weighs 15stone, its not the fact I'm light that makes me say he can't ride my 14.2, just the fact he's too big. And I really can't think of any horse able to take a 22" saddle. *Likewise, I can't think of anyone large & healthy (i.e. not large & just flabby) who would require a 22" saddle either.*

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My 6'5 large fit rugby, hockey, cricketing, snowboarding teenage nephew riding my big solid Shire X mare made her look tiny. The 18" saddle was utterly dwarfed by him. I'm not a little girl and it's big on me but his backside looked cramped and his legs either hung down by her knees or were way off the front of the saddle. A 22" saddle would be too long on her but I suspect he'd have been a lot more comfortable in it (and not had a squeaky voice when he got off either) He's a nice balanced sort of chap and would make a good rider on a horse that suited, but he'd definitely need a BIG saddle (and horse).


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## rhino (8 October 2012)

Spyda said:



_Only?_ 

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250lbs = just over 17stone, doesn't it? Think there are far heavier riders on the linked thread.


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

Ahrena said:



			I    ED at the one that says "I think Airess is carrying me just fine even though he's only two" !!

Mind you she isn't one of the biggest on there, but still...
		
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Yeah but nor is he the biggest. In fact he is very weedy, as you might expect for a 2 yr old.  

Phew well it took all my spare time in between jobs but I read the whole thread. There were some utter shockers, very finely built horses with poor conformation which supposedly carry their very large riders with no problem.  I don't understand why as a very large rider they wouldn't at least choose a horse built to carry weight but there you go.


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## Spyda (8 October 2012)

rhino said:



			250lbs = just over 17stone, doesn't it? Think there are far heavier riders on the linked thread.
		
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Yes I know, but to suggest _"only"_ being 17 stone is like, lightweight or something! It's the "only" bit that caught my eye. And, sure, I know compared to being 316lbs it's a big improvement but my husband is 16 - 17 stone and is careful what type of horse he rides, obviously. He doesn't have trouble finding horses suitable to carry him, but again, a large majority of horses wouldn't be comfortable carrying him. I certainly wouldn't say, "Oh my husband's _only_ 17 stone!" in terms of finding a horse to carry him.


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## Molly'sMama (8 October 2012)

ugh that linked thread  

this quote is something that horrified me ;



			the reason that I'm smiling so much in the pic is that he didn't have to brace when I got on,
		
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ugh ugh so most horses DO physically have to brace when they get on? :L


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## Spyda (8 October 2012)

Anyone know what an acronym 'fluffy' stands for? The people on the link use it. I might have to adopt if for myself if it's a good one. I'm just wracking my brain but can't figure what it stands for.


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## tallyho! (8 October 2012)

I think "fluffy" is a nice word for morbidly obese. I dunno, I could be clutching at straws...

I'm sorry but I couldn't laugh at that thread. I'm far too saddened. I couldn't even laugh at the description of the belly getting caught on the saddle. I'm in shock.


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## rockysmum (8 October 2012)

amymay said:



			So your weight is muscle, as opposed to fat then - which of course is a different kettle of fish all together, I agree.
		
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Why????

As someone said on a thread last night, 14 stone is still 14 stone regardless of how well someone rides


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## classybutwild (8 October 2012)

I was told by the saddler that the saddle must never go as far back as the last rib, so what sort of horse can take a 22inch, plain stupid if you ask me x


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## Elsbells (8 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			I think "fluffy" is a nice word for morbidly obese. I dunno, I could be clutching at straws...
		
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Better not be cheese straws fluffy!


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## Littlelegs (8 October 2012)

Dod, I get what you say, but still think 22" is ridiculously large. I used to have a huge weightlifter bf years ago. Before passing the 18 stone mark he rode a beast of an 18.2 hw hunter belonging to a 17stone man who hunted it. Horse had a specially made 18.5" saddle, with a seat that was very roomy. Both men rode in it no problem. The difference was it had large panels to accommodate very tall men's legs for jumping. (ex bf 6'6). So I do see 18" might not be suitable for a big healthy man, but still think 22" is stretching it too far. 
  And spyda, posting that about bras catching near teatime is plain wrong!


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## luckyoldme (8 October 2012)

as a yo yo dieter i feel qualified to comment. though bereavement and  allsorts of things i have been at my worst nearly 17 stone. My horse is a 16.1 idx. 
At my heaviest I don t think i would have been able to ride and to be honest i just couldn t inflict that on my horse.
im shocked at the pictures .... those are not really what i would class as weight carriers.


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## cadefan (8 October 2012)

YorksG said:



			Where is the evidence that very few horses can take an 18" saddle? I have known/do know a large number who do with no problem.
A tall person would need a longer saddle due to the length of their thigh bones.
		
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I believe William Fox Pitt uses a 17" saddle; surely he has one of the longest thigh bones ever in a rider?


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

rockysmum said:



			Why????

As someone said on a thread last night, 14 stone is still 14 stone regardless of how well someone rides 

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Exactly, it makes no difference unless you are "fattist". 

I also think an unfit (fat or thin) very good rider does not bounce around like a sack of tatties. Just because you aren't fit you don't stop knowing how to ride. When I started back after 10 years I was not fit at all. This meant I couldn't ride for very long because it was blooming hard work to ride correctly. At no time was a bouncing around like a sack of tatties.


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

classybutwild said:



			I was told by the saddler that the saddle must never go as far back as the last rib, so what sort of horse can take a 22inch, plain stupid if you ask me x
		
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Yes however not all saddles which are the same seat size are the same length on the horses back. I have already tried to explain this but obviously not very well. 

My saddler told me there are various things they can do to make a bigger seat fit on a short backed horse which would not damage the horse (in fact it would be better than a rider sitting on a too small saddle). There is no point them making 22" saddles that do not fit any horse in the world.


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## Puddock (8 October 2012)

Well, I will stand up and be counted as someone who probably needs a bigger saddle - but I do think 22 inches is pushing it too far. 

Some horses can take more than 18 inches, though. My saddler says that mine is among them. He is a 16.3 tank (Dutch Harness Horse) and I am 5ft 11, weigh 12.5 stones and have a 36 inch inside leg. All my height comes from freakishly long thigh bones and I am currently trying to ride in an 18 inch Wintec Isabell. I just don't fit in it. Fits horse well, just not me. My knees are usually over the front, no matter how long I ride and I seem to be forced further back than I'd like. It's physically impossible for me to get a shoulder/hip/heel line. I am seriously considering asking for a bigger seat size (along with much longer saddle flaps) should I buy a made to measure next year. These pics are not the best for closely examining saddle size, but will give you an idea:

ttp://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=558465


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## tallyho! (8 October 2012)

Elsbells said:



			Better not be cheese straws fluffy!

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two packets or three????


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## Puddock (8 October 2012)

Sorry, on phone so can't edit, pics are here: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=558465


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

Puddock said:



			Well, I will stand up and be counted as someone who probably needs a bigger saddle - but I do think 22 inches is pushing it too far. 

Some horses can take more than 18 inches, though. My saddler says that mine is among them. He is a 16.3 tank (Dutch Harness Horse) and I am 5ft 11, weigh 12.5 stones and have a 36 inch inside leg. All my height comes from freakishly long thigh bones and I am currently trying to ride in an 18 inch Wintec Isabell. I just don't fit in it. Fits horse well, just not me. My knees are usually over the front, no matter how long I ride and I seem to be forced further back than I'd like. It's physically impossible for me to get a shoulder/hip/heel line. I am seriously considering asking for a bigger seat size (along with much longer saddle flaps) should I buy a made to measure next year. These pics are not the best for closely examining saddle size, but will give you an idea:

ttp://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=558465
		
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I don't think synthetic saddles accommodate tall riders very well at all. Have you tried some off the peg different styles?  Mine is a 17.5 inch barnsby and completely different to a 17.5 inch thorowgood griffin, which I will point out again was too long for my 13.2 but the barnsby is not


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## Theocat (8 October 2012)

Perhaps having to purchase a saddle with such a large seat, and face the difficulty of finding a horse big enough to fit it to happily, might a) encourage heavier riders to really think about their weight and b) might be better for the horse than too-heavy riders just squashing themselves into too-small saddles.

There shouldn't be a need for 22" seats, but there is, and if it forces a few people to think about what they're doing it's no bad thing.


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## a kind of magic (8 October 2012)

This is a very interesting thread and there are some horrible photos on the linked thread...a lot of unhappy horses!

I have not read all the thread but to the person who commented about western saddles...they are designed completely different to english saddles.  The lbs are spread out over a much bigger surface area-most people will fit into a 15", 16", or 17" western saddle-my husband is 6ft 4 and 15st and he rides in a 16"-equivalent to about a 17.5" english.


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## stacie21 (8 October 2012)

It must be great to be naturally as thin as a rake and not have to worry about gym / diets as long as the horse is of a suitable size I don't see the problem why should people be judged


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## stacie21 (8 October 2012)

Ok so some of them pics are horrendous but if the horse is up to size draft horse etc then ok


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## tallyho! (8 October 2012)

stacie21 said:



			Ok so some of them pics are horrendous but if the horse is up to size draft horse etc then ok
		
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Draught horses were not built to carry much weight on their backs. They are more for hauling weight.... hence draught. They actually have quite weak backs.


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## Littlelegs (8 October 2012)

The reason being x stones of flab versus x stones of healthy fit person comes down to fitness. Riding is a sport, & in no other would someone say 'yes, I am massively unfit now but still a competent balanced athlete/ballerina/swimmer etc'. If you are fit & healthy & an experienced rider & for arguments sake weigh 14 stone, you'll feel like 14stone to the horse. But, however good you were previously if you are 14 stone of couch potatoe you will not be as balanced & will feel heavier to carry than your actual weight.


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## Batgirl (8 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Exactly, it makes no difference unless you are "fattist". 

I also think an unfit (fat or thin) very good rider does not bounce around like a sack of tatties. Just because you aren't fit you don't stop knowing how to ride. When I started back after 10 years I was not fit at all. This meant I couldn't ride for very long because it was blooming hard work to ride correctly. At no time was a bouncing around like a sack of tatties.
		
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I would never contest that I ride lighter than 17 stone, I do however ride 'lighter' than a 17 stone FAT person.  Someone said that people use the vet thing about 'riding lighter' as an excuse to be heavier and I agree.  Trying to say that you are light enough on a horse because you are muscle is bull, saying that a horse that can take 17 stone should carry an 'amorphous blob' is wrong.

I purposely bought a horse capable of carrying me and I make sure I am fit and balanced enough to to ride him, I wouldn't allow a FAT 17 stone person on him.

I hope that made some sort of sense????

(edited to say I think littlelegs beat me to it more succinctly  )


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## Emilieu (8 October 2012)

Feeling very guilty reading some of these comments - I'm sure if I was a nicer person I wouldn't be snorting with laughter  
Seriously tho - that link is outrageous.


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## flump (8 October 2012)

Yes!!
I can stop my diet and just put a bigger saddle on my horse! An plus I'm skinny compared too those other riders so yeah I'm off to maccers!


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

I can assure you my riding was not unbalanced and I did not magically weigh more when I was not riding fit.  Incidentally I was not overweight and have never ridden over weight (I have been over weight tho!). 

I agree an incompetent unfit rider of any size would be worse for the horse.


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## Batgirl (8 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			I can assure you my riding was not unbalanced and I did not magically weigh more when I was not riding fit.  Incidentally I was not overweight and have never ridden over weight (I have been over weight tho!). 

I agree an incompetent unfit rider of any size would be worse for the horse.
		
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i hope I didn't offend you, I tend to say 'you' when I mean anyone!  The quote was meant to be just the fattist part 

However although you may not have been bouncing around like tatties you were not as balanced or light on the horse as you were/are when riding fit.


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## Mardy Mare (8 October 2012)

Emilieu said:



			Feeling very guilty reading some of these comments - I'm sure if I was a nicer person I wouldn't be snorting with laughter  
Seriously tho - that link is outrageous.
		
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I agree.

I cannot believe what sights I have seen on that thread.  Those poor, poor horses.  How do the riders get on   Or even walk to the field to catch them 

I really commend people getting off their arses and engaging in physical activities to get fitter/loose weight.  However, when you are the size of the majority of the people in that thread, I really think horse riding is not the way to go and you're being pretty selfish forcing an animal to lug you around when clearly you don't do it enough yourself


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## Littlelegs (8 October 2012)

Fw my comments weren't aimed at you riding. Nor at anyone who happens to be slightly overweight or unfit. I'm talking about the difference between a healthy person & a blob. You can control muscle, but flab tends to move around itself, so can't possibly be controlled or balaced. Carrying a few spare inches on top of muscle, then yes of course it can be balanced. A huge overhanging belly that swings about, no it can't possibly be balanced. (and by huge overhanging belly I don't mean someone a bit plump, I'm talking morbidly obese).


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## Puddock (8 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			I don't think synthetic saddles accommodate tall riders very well at all. Have you tried some off the peg different styles?  Mine is a 17.5 inch barnsby and completely different to a 17.5 inch thorowgood griffin, which I will point out again was too long for my 13.2 but the barnsby is not 

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True FfionWinnie - I think we chatted about Barnsbys before? Haven't had an opportunity yet to try a variety - current saddle fitter doesn't carry a big range of secondhand at all. The Isabell is supposed to be quite good position-wise for a lot of people, though. Just not me it seems!


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## maisie06 (8 October 2012)

I am overweight, but not morbidly obese, I am careful about what horses I ride and even asked my vet, instructor and the physio if I was too heavy as my lad has a spavin. I was told not to be silly!! I keep to sturdy native and cob types these days!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (8 October 2012)

Wow a 22 inch saddle!! Must be a loooong horse!!

I require a 17.5 for the length of my thigh as I have stupidly long legs for my small height (5ft1) but pony requires a 17 so I have to put up with jumping with my knees over the knee rolls. I know its not much but it does actually make a difference. Pony being a coblet needs a cob saddle so the kneerolls are actually rather flat anyways.

My butt fits fine into the 17 inch (with the weight off) and my 17.5 seat that i used to be overflowing at times now seems roomy lol


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## wallykissmas (8 October 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Iglesias


Might explain the fluffy comments .....


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

Puddock said:



			True FfionWinnie - I think we chatted about Barnsbys before? Haven't had an opportunity yet to try a variety - current saddle fitter doesn't carry a big range of secondhand at all. The Isabell is supposed to be quite good position-wise for a lot of people, though. Just not me it seems!
		
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Lol when I was typing it I was wondering if it was you, I couldn't remember so thought I'd bang on about it anyway.


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## FfionWinnie (8 October 2012)

Batgirl said:



			i hope I didn't offend you, I tend to say 'you' when I mean anyone!  The quote was meant to be just the fattist part 

However although you may not have been bouncing around like tatties you were not as balanced or light on the horse as you were/are when riding fit.
		
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Lol you haven't offended me however I know I was just as balanced as I always was because I have it on video.  I sent it to my friend who is an instructor and her first comment was, what a light and sympathetic rider I am. The pony is 13.2 and I am *seriously* paranoid about squashing her. 

I think we are talking a bit cross purposes however because while I wasn't riding fit, I am fit as my job involves walking miles, running after young dogs and wrestling sheep and cattle to the ground. (ok not really a cattle wrestler but their equipment is all heavy!). 

I wasn't referring to the super duper sized riders on the other thread.


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## YorksG (8 October 2012)

Finally found the size guide I knew existed 
According to this, at 5'6" and weighing 9stones I need an 18" saddle.
From the Thoroughgood site:-
It's easy to find the saddle size that suits you. Sit somewhere so your thigh is at a right angle to your lower leg and measure from the back of your buttock to the point of your knee.Upper leg lengthRecommended seat sizeUp to 16½" (41cms)15"Up to 18½" (46cms)
16"Up to 20" (50cms)16½
"Up to 21½" (54cms)17"Up to 23" (58cms)17½"
Up to 23" (59cms)or longer18"
While this offers you a guide, the seat size required may vary according to your build.


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## katastrophykat (8 October 2012)

Re the question of how they get on ( cant quote as on phone, sorry) but I may answer that one...

I went to see a 16.3 ID x not long ago and was surprised to find a lady owner as round as she was tall. Her BF was with her (think of the jack spratt nursery rhyme at this point) and I'd taken a friend with me to view said horse. 

Asked we to trot it up- she was unable, as couldn't run with it though she did have a good go. 

Asked her to ride it first (once bitten etc) and though reluctant, she agreed. She then tacked it up and looked about for something to climb on (she advised she had just moved yards but used a stepladder at the last one...) she found a couple of handy piles of flagstones, beside each other- one about 1'6 and the other maybe 3'. I didn't dare look at my friend as she climbed the pile to the top and stood waiting for the (unhorsey) BF to park the horse. Once they had him parked, the poor lad stood like a saint while she took hold of her ankle and hoisted it over his bum. The BF from the other side took hold of her ankle and dragged it over the cantle so her inner calf was resting on his saddle. She kind of hopped across the wobbly flagstones, and managed to get her knee across the saddle. He then took hold of her ankle and physically dragged her into place amid lots of huffing and puffing. She took five minutes to recover from the ordeal before asking him to walk on. For the whole viewing friend and I avoided eye contact completely. She could not ride to save her life- the poor horse was unerringly sweet to her, stopping when she unbalanced and flatly refusing to trot- when pushed he managed a few strides but she couldn't rise to any form of rhythym so he stopped. I rode him and found him to be a forward, easy type, but backing off seriously and I felt he was  expecting to be sore the whole time, so we gave him a miss. 

She has since sold him, has lost no weight at all, and after telling me that she wanted a 14hh heavy cob, was last seen on Facebook asking after three ex racers- all flat bred ones. 8o


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## WelshD (8 October 2012)

Whilst I agree with many comments on this thread (I am very large and wouldn't dream of riding a horse at anywhere near my current weight) I do think that some of the comments towards the people who bravely put their pics up on the US thread are a bit unfair, I hope to goodness none of them stumble across this thread


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## katastrophykat (8 October 2012)

See, I had a good look at that thread... And found them to be cruel. 

 you say you wouldn't consider it, and I'm certain that you're nowhere near the weight of those riders. 

Quite a few of those pics are downright cruelty I'm afraid.


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## Littlelegs (9 October 2012)

Tbh, I couldn't care less if they read any derogatory comments. Some of those pictures are downright cruel, & I couldn't give a flying **** about the feelings of someone who is cruel to an animal. If people insist on loading their gigantic lardy selves onto a horse blatantly far too small & causing suffering they can only expect people with decent morals to be offended. As it is, I'd be equally derogatory if it featured small slim adults riding 7hh minis.


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## spookypony (9 October 2012)

No comment on the FF saddles, but another not-tall, not-fat person here that needs a longer saddle. My pony shouldn't have anything longer than 17", and even that's pushing it, but I really need an 18", except for a dressage saddle, where I can get away with 17". I'm 5' 5.5", weigh 9.5st, and am as thin as I was at 9st (just fitter). Both the pony's saddles are 17", but I need to look at getting something with shorter panels and a longer seat, so that I don't feel like a grasshopper when I shorten up stirrups. I have no idea if or why or how WFP rides in a 17", but for me, that's uncomfortably short.


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## skydy (9 October 2012)

Clava said:



			In the US they have a different view as to what is acceptable. 

http://www.horseforum.com/plus-sized-riders/anyone-brave-enough-post-98650/

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In the U.S. the majority of horse people, do not find the very obese people on that forum, riding weedy horses, acceptable in any equestrian sense of the word.
 It seems to me that most on that forum have had no instruction and have no idea what they are doing. I'd like to think that if they did, they would not be putting bridles on backward or getting on obviously unsuitable horses.
  I can only imagine the unkind words that would be directed towards them if they posted those photos on the forum that I frequent.

Heavy riders need a suitable horse, period.


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## Tnavas (9 October 2012)

I've just bought an 18" saddle for my horse, true she is a Clydesdale but is 16hh, quite compact and certainly no problem fitting her.

I'm 5'7" tall and have long thighs, when I jump the average GP barely allows me to raise the stirrups more than a couple of holes, any more - I usually like to go up 6 holes from flat - my bum is pushed out of the saddle or my knees go over the front of the knee rolls.

I'm not sure that I'd ever need a 22" even though it sounds like my butt would fit more comfortably and safely in that size - I shall just keep dieting instead.


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

spookypony said:



			No comment on the FF saddles, but another not-tall, not-fat person here that needs a longer saddle. My pony shouldn't have anything longer than 17", and even that's pushing it, but I really need an 18", except for a dressage saddle, where I can get away with 17". I'm 5' 5.5", weigh 9.5st, and am as thin as I was at 9st (just fitter). Both the pony's saddles are 17", but I need to look at getting something with shorter panels and a longer seat, so that I don't feel like a grasshopper when I shorten up stirrups. I have no idea if or why or how WFP rides in a 17", but for me, that's uncomfortably short.
		
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WFP'S saddles are made longer on the flap and knee roll. The more of your thigh you have on the saddle the less stable you are and if someone thinks their knees are too long past the shoulder, the saddle needs to come back a bit further as it could be too far forward.


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## Clava (9 October 2012)

skydy said:



			In the U.S. the majority of horse people, do not find the very obese people on that forum, riding weedy horses, acceptable in any equestrian sense of the word.
 It seems to me that most on that forum have had no instruction and have no idea what they are doing. I'd like to think that if they did, they would not be putting bridles on backward or getting on obviously unsuitable horses.
  I can only imagine the unkind words that would be directed towards them if they posted those photos on the forum that I frequent.

Heavy riders need a suitable horse, period.
		
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Well on that forum it is tolerated (over here I doubt such a sub-forum could even exist) even on the main part and generally on other forums I have also seen the level of weight that is regarded as OK as being much higher than would be deemed OK over here, but this is only my perception. It is just a horse forum for anyone so just a tiny a snap shot of what goes on in some places in the US (mostly although an international forum).


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

skydy said:



			It seems to me that most on that forum have had no instruction and have no idea what they are doing. I'd like to think that if they did, they would not be putting bridles on backward or getting on obviously unsuitable horses.
  I can only imagine the unkind words that would be directed towards them if they posted those photos on the forum that I frequent.

Heavy riders need a suitable horse, period.
		
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Yes I agree with you, the upside down tack and backwards bridles points to complete ignorance. Several posters stated the bit was too small or too large for the horse and that was why it was so fussy in its mouth (wtf!).  That is nothing to do with their size it's just complete ignorance. 

Secondly, them all saying their horses carry them fine because they don't brace when they get on eek or sweat on a 7 hour trail ride eek and if anyone says anything to bring them to reality it is written off as being a sizest comment and just them being mean.  That is also complete ignorance and something else I can't think of the word for just now!


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## Clava (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Yes I agree with you, the upside down tack and backwards bridles points to complete ignorance. Several posters stated the bit was too small or too large for the horse and that was why it was so fussy in its mouth (wtf!).  That is nothing to do with their size it's just complete ignorance. 

Secondly, them all saying their horses carry them fine because they don't brace when they get on eek or sweat on a 7 hour trail ride eek and if anyone says anything to bring them to reality it is written off as being a sizest comment and just them being mean.  That is also complete ignorance and something else I can't think of the word for just now!
		
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Do you think the forum itself tolerating such a thread (showing possible cruelty?) without negative comments being able to be posted acceptable? I totally agree that it is ignorance (but they aren't being enlightened for some reason), but I also think that in the UK there is no way that people would be tolerated to ride such horses at such sizes so there is a difference across the water.


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## spookypony (9 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			WFP'S saddles are made longer on the flap and knee roll. The more of your thigh you have on the saddle the less stable you are and if someone thinks their knees are too long past the shoulder, the saddle needs to come back a bit further as it could be too far forward.
		
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So really, it's a similar thing to the saddles I'm looking at, where it's the horsey bit of the saddle that's made at 17", and the personey bit that's adjusted to the limb length of the rider. The panel length may be that of a 17" saddle, but it's a touch confusing to call it a plain old 17".

I wonder how big the difference is that can be accommodated without compromising the function in some sort of way? For example, could a saddle go as far as 16.5" for a horse, and 18" for the rider? There must be a limit?


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

Clava said:



			Do you think the forum itself tolerating such a thread (showing possible cruelty?) without negative comments being able to be posted acceptable? I totally agree that it is ignorance (but they aren't being enlightened for some reason), but I also think that in the UK there is no way that people would be tolerated to ride such horses at such sizes so there is a difference across the water.
		
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There were 89 pages and there was one negative comment. The negative comment was (from memory). "I'm sorry, I don't want to upset you but you are too heavy for that horse". It wasn't on a quoted response so unclear as to which one they were talking about. I think only one other poster jumped on this comment and said basically the person was being mean and didn't know what they were talking about as they all knew their horses better blah blah. Everyone else ignored it completely. I think there were so many "pro plus size" posters that any attempt to educate would be trampled (sorry ) into the mud.  Any one who said anything at all would just be consider mean.


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

spookypony said:



			So really, it's a similar thing to the saddles I'm looking at, where it's the horsey bit of the saddle that's made at 17", and the personey bit that's adjusted to the limb length of the rider. The panel length may be that of a 17" saddle, but it's a touch confusing to call it a plain old 17".

I wonder how big the difference is that can be accommodated without compromising the function in some sort of way? For example, could a saddle go as far as 16.5" for a horse, and 18" for the rider? There must be a limit? 

Click to expand...

It's what I have been banging on about the whole thread. Seat size does not mean directly the length the saddle takes up on the horses back. 

I am getting adaptions on my 17.5 inch saddle to accommodate my long legs and the pony is only 13.2hh with a short back. The saddle doesn't go past the last rib because the design of it. I have a 16 inch saddle here which is LONGER over all than the 17.5 inch and utterly uncomfortable for me to sit in compared to the 17.5 inch I have on loan til mine is made.


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## YasandCrystal (9 October 2012)

WelshD said:



			Whilst I agree with many comments on this thread (I am very large and wouldn't dream of riding a horse at anywhere near my current weight) I do think that some of the comments towards the people who bravely put their pics up on the US thread are a bit unfair, I hope to goodness none of them stumble across this thread 

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WelshD nothing brave about it imo - the thing is these oversized folk have put themselves onto a website for all to see - they clearly are happy with the fact that they are riding at such heavy weights or they are seeking approval. I think some comments have become OTT simply because some of the pictures are laughable - one lady's bottom was so big it almost hid the entire western saddle and the lady was on a TB type.

We cannot expect to just do as we please in this life with no regard in this case for the poor weight bearer - the horse. Noone has a birth right to ride horses - it is our duty as riders to ensure we are not under horsed and to become proficient riders so the horse we ride is comfortable etc.

An oversized person cannot become a ballet dancer - end of....  As with any sport one needs to have a level of fitness and these people on this website in many cases quite obviously do not. Noone would complain if they took up jogging and gave the roads a pounding, but a poor uncomplaining horse - no! It's wrong and I cannot fathom how these folk can be so arrogant as to think otherwise.


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## spookypony (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			It's what I have been banging on about the whole thread. Seat size does not mean directly the length the saddle takes up on the horses back. 

I am getting adaptions on my 17.5 inch saddle to accommodate my long legs and the pony is only 13.2hh with a short back. The saddle doesn't go past the last rib because the design of it. I have a 16 inch saddle here which is LONGER over all than the 17.5 inch and utterly uncomfortable for me to sit in compared to the 17.5 inch I have on loan til mine is made.
		
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Yes, exactly. I was just wanting to understand if the 17" saddle that WFP uses, which had been cited as an example earlier, fell into that same category, which according to tallyho! it does.

I don't think that my riding in a regular 17" GP is doing my pony's back any favours at all, and I'll be doing some serious saddle searching during the off-season. There's also a different degree of tolerance, I think, between sitting in a saddle for 1 hour, or sitting in one for 8 hours.


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## combat_claire (9 October 2012)

katastrophykat said:



			the poor lad stood like a saint while she took hold of her ankle and hoisted it over his bum. The BF from the other side took hold of her ankle and dragged it over the cantle so her inner calf was resting on his saddle. She kind of hopped across the wobbly flagstones, and managed to get her knee across the saddle. He then took hold of her ankle and physically dragged her into place amid lots of huffing and puffing. She took five minutes to recover from the ordeal before asking him to walk on.  8o
		
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OMG Kat I have just snorted my drink through my nose reading this! I do feel very sorry for the horse but it was funny to picture the scene....


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

spookypony said:



			Yes, exactly. I was just wanting to understand if the 17" saddle that WFP uses, which had been cited as an example earlier, fell into that same category, which according to tallyho! it does.

I don't think that my riding in a regular 17" GP is doing my pony's back any favours at all, and I'll be doing some serious saddle searching during the off-season. There's also a different degree of tolerance, I think, between sitting in a saddle for 1 hour, or sitting in one for 8 hours.
		
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The saddler explained it to me really well what they could do but I can't remember the terminology well enough to explain it. 

I am getting a standard 17.5 inch saddle the same style as this one (which is a standard off the peg 17.5 inch loan saddle):







My saddle has an extra 1.5 inch knee roll, double memory foam seat (purely for my boney bum lol) and something else I can't remember to do with my upper thigh length.  There were other things that could have been done too. It was all included in the off the peg price too. 

I am just riding this pony for a few years to bring on for my daughter but I wanted a saddle which was comfey for us both.


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## rhino (9 October 2012)

YorksG said:



			Finally found the size guide I knew existed 
According to this, at 5'6" and weighing 9stones I need an 18" saddle.
From the Thoroughgood site:-
It's easy to find the saddle size that suits you. Sit somewhere so your thigh is at a right angle to your lower leg and measure from the back of your buttock to the point of your knee.Upper leg lengthRecommended seat sizeUp to 16½" (41cms)15"Up to 18½" (46cms)
16"Up to 20" (50cms)16½
"Up to 21½" (54cms)17"Up to 23" (58cms)17½"
Up to 23" (59cms)or longer18"
While this offers you a guide, the seat size required may vary according to your build.
		
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I find that quite bizarre, according to that I need a 17 1/2" saddle at least! Anything bigger than a 17" and I feel like I am wallowing about  I'm only 5'3" and a runty little thing! Just one with a long hip-to-knee measurement, which every saddle fitter I've ever used has commented on 

I find having single-phase saddles makes such a difference though, I ride in a 16.5" dressage saddle and 16" and 17" close contact jumping saddles and they fit fine, but some of the GP saddles I've tried have been hopeless. Spooky - have you tried any proper endurance saddles; they must be made slightly differently as most endurance riders seem normal sized, and the horses compact little arabs with fewer vertebra than others


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			The saddler explained it to me really well what they could do but I can't remember the terminology well enough to explain it. 

I am getting a standard 17.5 inch saddle the same style as this one (which is a standard off the peg 17.5 inch loan saddle):







My saddle has an extra 1.5 inch knee roll, double memory foam seat (purely for my boney bum lol) and something else I can't remember to do with my upper thigh length.  There were other things that could have been done too. It was all included in the off the peg price too. 

I am just riding this pony for a few years to bring on for my daughter but I wanted a saddle which was comfey for us both.
		
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This saddle is too long for this pony. It may be that it does not go past his last rib at the cantle but look how far forward it is on the shoulder. That pony has quite a nice sloping shoulder and the saddle does not clear the top of the scapula. The pommel is directly above the rotational angle of the top of that leg.

Look at this page: http://www.thebacklady.co.uk/ I'm not promoting DM or her products but the spotty is mine and he was used for a demo by a well known saddler. You can see the saddle well clears the top of his scapula and he has a fairly upright shoulder. That is a 17" saddle with a 5'6 rider. The other jump saddle is the same seat length but longer in the flap so my seatbones still sit in the saddle, not my leg. My leg remains either side of the horse. The top photo, the chestnut shows this well. The pommel is well behind the shoulder blade but the flap extends slightly over to accommodate the tall rider.

Spookypony, there is definitely a limit to what can be adjusted to keep rider and horse happy. The less panel area vs seat area = more weight distributed on a smaller area. The whole idea of a saddle is to spread the riders weight either side of the spine, on the longissimus dorsi and a bit of the trapezius. If too much weight is concentrated on a particular area, it causes muscle wastage. If the seat needs to be longer than the panels you have to adjust pommel and cantle or else too much pressure will be placed either forward or back. Thats why it is better to get a longer flap (forward or down) and knee roll. This may mean your legs dangle past the horses belly. If you don't like that, then get a taller/rounder horse


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## spookypony (9 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Spookypony, there is definitely a limit to what can be adjusted to keep rider and horse happy. The less panel area vs seat area = more weight distributed on a smaller area. The whole idea of a saddle is to spread the riders weight either side of the spine, on the longissimus dorsi and a bit of the trapezius. If too much weight is concentrated on a particular area, it causes muscle wastage. If the seat needs to be longer than the panels you have to adjust pommel and cantle or else too much pressure will be placed either forward or back. Thats why it is better to get a longer flap (forward or down) and knee roll. This may mean your legs dangle past the horses belly. If you don't like that, then get a taller/rounder horse 

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No fear of dangling here!  He's far too wide for that; hard to find a rounder horse than him! Generous souls say his ribcage is just well-sprung. Others suggest that he eats Shetlands. 

Funds haven't allowed so far, but am thinking that an endurance saddle may well be the way to go. I like riding with a slightly shorter stirrup for endurance than on the flat, so that I can get out of the saddle easily for long canters, but it appears that getting something straighter-cut with longer flaps is probably going to be the way to accommodate both him and me. Certainly, his dressage saddle fits him better than the GP, and they're supposedly the same size, on the same (I think) tree!

Got some saving up to do over winter...


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## cowboylover (9 October 2012)

14 pages about something we know very little about. The actual saddle that is. 

I agree this pictures are dreadful but HH wrote an article about a theory prototype that doesn't exist yet.

So no need to worry people there is no 22"!


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## rhino (9 October 2012)

cowboylover said:



			14 pages about something we know very little about. The actual saddle that is. 

I agree this pictures are dreadful but HH wrote an article about a theory prototype that doesn't exist yet.

So no need to worry people there is no 22"!
		
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I disagree. Obesity is very much the unspoken epidemic in this country; perhaps if it was more openly discussed/discussable then it wouldn't be as bad as it is now.

Turning a blind eye to it will never help. The fact is that people are getting bigger and heavier and at some point that will impact on the tack that is 'needed'.

ETA set your account to 40 posts per page and it's only 4 pages of 'something we know very little about'


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## cowboylover (9 October 2012)

No I think you missed my point, maybe I was not clear. 

I totally agree with you that it's an epidemic and turning a blind eye as you put it is never the way forward and will not help anyone. 

The OP was about a saddle that does not exist so I hope it nothing to worry about and never gets made.


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## smokey (9 October 2012)

rhino said:



			I find that quite bizarre, according to that I need a 17 1/2" saddle at least! Anything bigger than a 17" and I feel like I am wallowing about  I'm only 5'3" and a runty little thing! Just one with a long hip-to-knee measurement, which every saddle fitter I've ever used has commented on 

I find having single-phase saddles makes such a difference though, I ride in a 16.5" dressage saddle and 16" and 17" close contact jumping saddles and they fit fine, but some of the GP saddles I've tried have been hopeless. Spooky - have you tried any proper endurance saddles; they must be made slightly differently as most endurance riders seem normal sized, and the horses compact little arabs with fewer vertebra than others 

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Rhino, we have shared the naughty bench, we both know you are not nearly as petite as you claim to be!


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## cowboylover (9 October 2012)

PS Thanks for the set up change advise!


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## YasandCrystal (9 October 2012)

cowboylover said:



			No I think you missed my point, maybe I was not clear. 

I totally agree with you that it's an epidemic and turning a blind eye as you put it is never the way forward and will not help anyone. 

The OP was about a saddle that does not exist so I hope it nothing to worry about and never gets made.
		
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Yes but getting to the 14th page and seeing that American website has been en-lightening and shows just where that Fuller Fillies are coming from!


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## rhino (9 October 2012)

smokey said:



			Rhino, we have shared the naughty bench, we both know you are not nearly as petite as you claim to be! 

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 Cheeky moo!



cowboylover said:



			PS Thanks for the set up change advise!
		
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If you go to User CP and then to Edit Options you can change the set up. I agree with you that I'd rather the 22" saddle was never needed, but then I'd rather that high street shops had not needed to create plus sized clothes for 5 year olds, and yet they have


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## Daytona (9 October 2012)

i am a 5 foot 10 female and i had to get a 18" saddle made for me with a extra 2" cup forward flap as my hip to knee bone is really long - so i found out when buying a new black country saddle

But yes before this my knees alwaus poked off end of saddle - quite annoying.

This saddle was made for  16hh WB mare and they insisted she could take a 18" saddle due to where he ribs were or something along that lines

so maybe a really tall person on a 17 odd HH horse, could get away with a larger seat..??

No so keen on the idea if its just due to being obese  thats easily solved - eat less
bu tif you tall you cant do alot about that.


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

Tallyho as I said its a temporary loan saddle, it has moved forward however the saddle fitter has been back since and with a Prolite pad, stopped it moving. I don't have any other photos hence I used that one. The saddle fitter is very highly regarded and well qualified and I am afraid I will be taking her advice on this matter.


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## siennamum (9 October 2012)

My son is 6ft 2, which in itself isn't a huge problem. It has become problematic because he is riding a 16.2 with a phenominally short back and a loaded shoulder. 

The saddle  which is currently being made for him has to be a 17" because the horse will not take a longer saddle. The cantle will be a jumping one, the pommel is being raised to ensure he has some support & the flaps are being set further forward with adjustable blocks. 

This is an interesting topic really as in additional to other concerns you have to consider with longer saddles where the riders weight is centralised on the horses back. I do believe you have to ensure the weight is as close to the horses centre of gravity as possible. I loathe seeing saddles which sit the rider over the horses kidneys - as many modern event saddles do. They encourage slim people to sit on their thighs, let alone fatties.(like me - I hasten to add)


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

YasandCrystal said:



			Yes but getting to the 14th page and seeing that American website has been en-lightening and shows just where that Fuller Fillies are coming from!
		
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Is it tho. I don't think some of the American ladies would fit in a 22" seat either.


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## YasandCrystal (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Is it tho. I don't think some of the American ladies would fit in a 22" seat either.
		
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No sadly their bottoms would eat a 22"


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Tallyho as I said its a temporary loan saddle, it has moved forward however the saddle fitter has been back since and with a Prolite pad, stopped it moving. I don't have any other photos hence I used that one. The saddle fitter is very highly regarded and well qualified and I am afraid I will be taking her advice on this matter.
		
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Why are you afraid?


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## Littlelegs (9 October 2012)

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that length of thigh has a huge bearing on saddle size. It's not my thigh bones in the seat, its my bum. So on the flat, the fact I have 36" legs doesn't mean I need a bigger seat than someone the same build, with shorter legs. Granted, different flaps & knee rolls etc maybe required, especially for jumping, but seat size is more dependent on build. Unless of course you are sat in an armchair type position.


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## flump (9 October 2012)

Why are they saying they can't fit into 16" sAddles on the USA forum? I don't believe most adults ride comfortably in 16" saddles let alone ones with bigger bums!?


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## siennamum (9 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that length of thigh has a huge bearing on saddle size. It's not my thigh bones in the seat, its my bum. So on the flat, the fact I have 36" legs doesn't mean I need a bigger seat than someone the same build, with shorter legs. Granted, different flaps & knee rolls etc maybe required, especially for jumping, but seat size is more dependent on build. Unless of course you are sat in an armchair type position.
		
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as far as I am aware saddle size is all about the length of your thigh, though your bum size must also make a difference.

It relates to where your knee is and the alignment to your seat.


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## 'S'teamed (9 October 2012)

i think some here are confusing seat length, 18 19 or in the article 22 inches, with the panel length underneath..

i've 2 ponies that cannot take anything longer, panel wise, than 15 inches, but my thigh length is 15 3/4 so i have a 15 inch panel and a 16 inch seat..

perfectly acceptable, and made to measure


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

siennamum said:



			as far as I am aware saddle size is all about the length of your thigh, though your bum size must also make a difference.

It relates to where your knee is and the alignment to your seat.
		
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See this is completely alien to me. I have never ever heard about thigh length being important to seat size. Flap length yes, but not seat.


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## siennamum (9 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			See this is completely alien to me. I have never ever heard about thigh length being important to seat size. Flap length yes, but not seat.
		
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We're not talking about seat size, we're talking about saddle size, they are the same thing fundamentally unless you have a specially made saddle, but that is how saddles are measured.


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## siennamum (9 October 2012)

http://www.livestrong.com/article/196002-how-to-determine-saddle-seat-size/


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## Littlelegs (9 October 2012)

Ditto Tallyho. On the flat in a classical position, your knee should form the same angle no matter how long your thigh bones are.


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## YasandCrystal (9 October 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			Why are they saying they can't fit into 16" sAddles on the USA forum? I don't believe most adults ride comfortably in 16" saddles let alone ones with bigger bums!?
		
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I think they refer to Western saddles which are measured differently as I recall 16" in Western is adult size.


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## siennamum (9 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Ditto Tallyho. On the flat in a classical position, your knee should form the same angle no matter how long your thigh bones are.
		
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I'm not sure how this means you don't measure thigh length when calculating saddle size. In all riding your heel should be in a line with hip & ear, whether you are jumping or doing flat work, that is going to change the angle your knee is at, though I stand corrected if it is more important that your knee is at a certain angle when riding classically.


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## siennamum (9 October 2012)

Although Sylvia Loch also seems to think the critical aspect of a good seat are that the hip/heel/head line is maintained, so maybe you are talking about a different classical seat;
http://www.artofriding.com/articles/classicalseat.html


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## Littlelegs (9 October 2012)

I'm not talking about any particular school of 'classical' just what I call a good basic position. If you take two riders the same build & width both riding in a good classical position, & only leg length is any different, the taller won't bend there knees to a greater or lesser extent than the shorter, thus seat size has no bearing. I agree the flaps do, but not the actual seat. I'm not claiming I ride like Carl hester, but his is what I personally define as my ideal to aim for position wise on the flat if that makes sense?


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## rhino (9 October 2012)

YasandCrystal said:



			I think they refer to Western saddles which are measured differently as I recall 16" in Western is adult size.
		
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This. 16" Western is about equivalent to 18" English IIRC


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## flump (9 October 2012)

Ah I see! Thanks rhino and Yasandcrystal!


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## siennamum (9 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			I'm not talking about any particular school of 'classical' just what I call a good basic position. If you take two riders the same build & width both riding in a good classical position, & only leg length is any different, the taller won't bend there knees to a greater or lesser extent than the shorter, thus seat size has no bearing. I agree the flaps do, but not the actual seat. I'm not claiming I ride like Carl hester, but his is what I personally define as my ideal to aim for position wise on the flat if that makes sense?
		
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I think there is a general misconception that classical is different to good traditional. IMO they are one and the same thing.

A rider can have a classical seat whether riding bareback or with jockey length stirrups, and there will be a drastic difference in the angle of the knee.

A straight line  would connect the points of gravity on the ear, point of  shoulder,  hip joint & ankle. These remain the same whether standing or  riding, the only change being the bend in the knee and  elbow.

IF you have an enormous bottom the issue will be whether you can sit on your seat bones with your thighs loose against the horse - unlikely if they have ther own centre of gravity.

That is an unchangeable thing. What will change is where your stirrup bar & knee roll is in relation to your knee and heel. these are adjusted to standard saddle sizes. If your saddle is too small for your length of leg it will push you back in the saddle. if it is too big you will be 'reaching' for the stirrups they will be set on too far forwards and they will unbalance you.


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## YasandCrystal (9 October 2012)

This is all news to me too. All I have heard of is my particularly tiny slender friends getting saddles with a narrow twist to accomade their small pelvis' and short friends getting saddles with shorter flaps to accomodate their short legs. I always associated seat size with bum size, obviously taking into account that some horses with very short backs need a short saddle. I don't think I have ever owned a long backed horse.

I am no competition rider, but wouldn't riding with stirrups a hole or 2 longer make for a comfortable solution? My daughter is nearly 6ft tall with endlesss legs and she has never had a problem and competed at RC level successfully. She has a 17.5" saddle.


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## Polotash (9 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that length of thigh has a huge bearing on saddle size. It's not my thigh bones in the seat, its my bum. So on the flat, the fact I have 36" legs doesn't mean I need a bigger seat than someone the same build, with shorter legs. Granted, different flaps & knee rolls etc maybe required, especially for jumping, but seat size is more dependent on build. Unless of course you are sat in an armchair type position.
		
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I totally agree. I'm 5'8 and size 8 and happily use a 16 inch saddle... Anything more than a 17 inch I swim in...

My friend, size 10, is 6 foot tall with very long thigh bones. She has to have all her saddles made for her, but has a 17 inch seat with extra long and "forward" flaps to accomodate her legs in jumping position. No change in seat size is needed as she has a small bum!


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## Jesstickle (9 October 2012)

I like 18'' saddles and I'm short and not particularly fat. 

I think if you can't afford a custom made saddle with longer flaps and you have long legs using a longer seat is probably a reasonable way to find yourself some more room? Ideally not how you'd go but obviously not all of us can afford to buy brand new/have one made. 


Obviously nothing to do with being fat just a random musing on saddle sizing.


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## Polotash (9 October 2012)

jesstickle said:



			I think if you can't afford a custom made saddle with longer flaps and you have long legs using a longer seat is probably a reasonable way to find yourself some more room? Ideally not how you'd go but obviously not all of us can afford to buy brand new/have one made.
		
Click to expand...

No, because if you are forcing your bum back in the seat to fit your knees onto/ behind the knee roll you'll be out of balance...


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## Jesstickle (9 October 2012)

Polotash said:



			No, because if you are forcing your bum back in the seat to fit your knees onto/ behind the knee roll you'll be out of balance...
		
Click to expand...

So why do saddle fitters do it then?


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

siennamum said:



			I think there is a general misconception that classical is different to good traditional. IMO they are one and the same thing.

_Probably but not that I have seen in this life.[/I]

A rider can have a classical seat whether riding bareback or with jockey length stirrups, and there will be a drastic difference in the angle of the knee.

Yes I agree. So will there be in hip angle but a jockey only needs a very hort saddle.[/I]

A straight line  would connect the points of gravity on the ear, point of  shoulder,  hip joint & ankle. These remain the same whether standing or  riding, the only change being the bend in the knee and  elbow.

Right.[/I]

IF you have an enormous bottom the issue will be whether you can sit on your seat bones with your thighs loose against the horse - unlikely if they have ther own centre of gravity.

So, it's not the length, its the *width* of said thigh? I don't understand that a big thigh has it's own centre of gravity. You need to expand on this one. [/I]


That is an unchangeable thing. I thought you said it was??[/I]

What will change is where your stirrup bar & knee roll is in relation to your knee and heel. these are adjusted to standard saddle sizes. 

Lets consider the traditional tree. I have watched these made in my uncles workshop and the stirrup bar is always on the head and point. Some dressage saddle have longer bits of metal to put the stirrups further back under the flap but this is a new thing. The flap can be made as wide or as long as you want for the rider but it is the TWIST that makes the difference from sitting on a cantle or not.[/I]

If your saddle is too small for your length of leg it will push you back in the saddle. if it is too big you will be 'reaching' for the stirrups they will be set on too far forwards and they will unbalance you.

I still don't picture this. I would genuinely like to as perhaps we are speaking of the same thing, but I don't get why your leg length has anything to do with seat length. _

Click to expand...

_

..._


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

Polotash said:



			No, because if you are forcing your bum back in the seat to fit your knees onto/ behind the knee roll you'll be out of balance...
		
Click to expand...

Exactly!!!!! There is only one place where the centre of balance between horse and rider is at perfection! Further back or forward will put you way out of alignment and you will be behind/infront of the movement.


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

jesstickle said:



			So why do saddle fitters do it then? 

Click to expand...

They could suggest everyone hs bespoke saddles. This will never happen. They have a selection of pre-made saddles and it has to fit the horse first and foremost (some people still think it's the other way around!) then the rider. It's called route of least resistance  

As a long legged rider myself (need roller-skates for anything under 14.2) I have a bespoke 17" with extra long flaps, set back stirrup bars, rather fat knee rolls (it's how I like it) and a lovely gel seat. I don't spend money on countless rugs, I spend it on tack.


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## Polotash (9 October 2012)

jesstickle said:



			So why do saddle fitters do it then? 

Click to expand...

Because they want your money/ aren't instructors/ aren't very good fitters

Delete as appropriate! Just because people do it doesn't make it right. You would hope riders were good enough to feel when the proposed new saddle unbalanced them and say no to it, but perhaps this thread is showing that isn't the case.

Re having made to measure... there are many flap styles and only people with the most extreme "conformation" should need to go this route. For example, you could use a Wow, an Albion selecta, or just a jump/ event saddle instead of a GP if you needed more room on the flap for your knee...


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## Cop-Pop (9 October 2012)

Well I fit well into my 17 inch saddle and I'm no lightweight, in fact some of the more 'avid' HHO weight police would probably haul me off my horse   She was in an 18 inch but it was too big for me, luckily she goes well in a smaller one 

Also regarding leg length - I've seen William Fox-Pitt ride in normal saddles and his legs are about 8 miles long....


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## Littlelegs (9 October 2012)

Ditto Tallyho re saddlefitters. I actually have a 16.5" jefferies gp on my 14.2. Admittedly my knee comes over the front jumping length, but I don't do what I'd call much proper jumping on her anymore. Rest of the time, on her or anything else I ride in the same basic position as I would be bareback. So seat size really doesn't play a part. I've also ridden very briefly in a safari cub as an adult. (Hopped on a 12hh chunk who was playing up with tiny child I taught for 5mins). Yes, I was stirrupless but I was sat same as if I'd hopped on bareback. Only had an inch or two spare so couldn't have jumped in it, without hovering my bum above the cantle. But on the flat, it made no difference to my position. Admittedly leg aids were compromised by being far too low!


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

What a funny mental image!!!! That cheered up my afternoon no end!!!


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## Jesstickle (9 October 2012)

Polotash said:



			Because they want your money/ aren't instructors/ aren't very good fitters

Delete as appropriate! Just because people do it doesn't make it right. You would hope riders were good enough to feel when the proposed new saddle unbalanced them and say no to it, but perhaps this thread is showing that isn't the case.

Re having made to measure... there are many flap styles and only people with the most extreme "conformation" should need to go this route. For example, you could use a Wow, an Albion selecta, or just a jump/ event saddle instead of a GP if you needed more room on the flap for your knee...
		
Click to expand...


Most people have constraints on what they can afford and what they like though surely? It's all very well saying buy a WOW or an Albion but if you can only afford a Wintec that doesn't really help you does it? 

Now, you might instantly start saving for something else but in the mean time you have to ride in something don't you? 

I don't know. I'm short like I say.


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## Littlelegs (9 October 2012)

There were apparently pictures Tallyho, luckily it was over 8yrs ago & I haven't seen them published anywhere so hopefully now destroyed! But if you've seen the thelwell pic of the girl with rollerskates, that's about right, just imagine pony is a piebald cob!


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

jesstickle said:



			Most people have constraints on what they can afford and what they like though surely? It's all very well saying buy a WOW or an Albion but if you can only afford a Wintec that doesn't really help you does it? 

Now, you might instantly start saving for something else but in the mean time you have to ride in something don't you? 

I don't know. I'm short like I say.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I suppose so shortarse 

Hey, we all rode in a plastic saddle at one time. Can't say it was perfect but it made do. We are talking about "ideal world" here and last time I checked there was just "real world"... so on that note I will take my longs legs to the pub and drown my sorrows... anyone welcome to join as long we don't tlk about saddles again!!!!


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## Jesstickle (9 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Yes I suppose so shortarse 

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with being a midget! 

I still prefer my 18'' saddle to my 16.5'' one though. I must be weird or summat


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

Could be the twist or depth of seat? These things make quite a difference surprisingly enough. I don't like certain twists, hurts my foo foo.

Oh dammit! Saddles again!


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## Polotash (9 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			I don't like certain twists, hurts my foo foo.

Oh dammit! Saddles again!
		
Click to expand...

Haha, my friend used to be rubbed raw by her stubben and had to sell it! :0(


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

ROFL!!  

My OH just came in and said "Who's Stubben???" Poor girl... must stop crying with laughter now.... I mean pain. Sympathy pain................... sorry


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## Jesstickle (9 October 2012)

Polotash said:



			Haha, my friend used to be rubbed raw by her stubben and had to sell it! :0(
		
Click to expand...

I get that from my friends Stubben. Hateful thing


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## siennamum (9 October 2012)

I think there is a general misconception that classical is different to good traditional. IMO they are one and the same thing.

_Probably but not that I have seen in this life._ *What not even Carl Hester? - traditional dressage rider with a pretty much classical seat/manner*

A rider can have a classical seat whether riding bareback or with jockey length stirrups, and there will be a drastic difference in the angle of the knee.

_Yes I agree. So will there be in hip angle but a jockey only needs a very hort saddle._ *and?*

A straight line would connect the points of gravity on the ear, point of shoulder, hip joint & ankle. These remain the same whether standing or riding, the only change being the bend in the knee and elbow.

_Right._

IF you have an enormous bottom the issue will be whether you can sit on your seat bones with your thighs loose against the horse - unlikely if they have ther own centre of gravity.

_So, it's not the length, its the width of said thigh? I don't understand that a big thigh has it's own centre of gravity. You need to expand on this one. _*joke*


That is an unchangeable thing. _I thought you said it was??_*Sitting on your seat bones should be a given.....?*

What will change is where your stirrup bar & knee roll is in relation to your knee and heel. these are adjusted to standard saddle sizes.

_Lets consider the traditional tree. I have watched these made in my uncles workshop and the stirrup bar is always on the head and point. Some dressage saddle have longer bits of metal to put the stirrups further back under the flap but this is a new thing. The flap can be made as wide or as long as you want for the rider but it is the TWIST that makes the difference from sitting on a cantle or not._ *I didn't invent the rules, saddle sizing has been determined in part by the rider's length of femur for a long time, your uncle can probably tell you why*

If your saddle is too small for your length of leg it will push you back in the saddle. if it is too big you will be 'reaching' for the stirrups they will be set on too far forwards and they will unbalance you.

I still don't picture this. I would genuinely like to as perhaps we are speaking of the same thing, but I don't get why your leg length has anything to do with seat length. *I haven't talked about seat length, just saddle size. Saddles are traditionally fitted to the riders thigh - not exclusively, there's lots more to it obv. but it is standard practice - really suprised people don't know this tbh*


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## lorac_uk (9 October 2012)

I am not about to waste too much time by posting on the Horse & Hound Forum, I don't like forums because they give people with an unhealthy imbalance of free time and ignorance too great a voice however; several of the forum participants have drawn my attention to a post that has been made following an article run this week in your magazine. I have read and re-read the copy of the post with absolute disbelief; firstly that the Moderators can even think of allowing such a post, which is CLEARLY aimed to bully a sector of your readership, and secondly that there is a horse lover/owner/ interested party out there that is so bigoted, ignorant and uninformed!
Whoever you are madam, I am talking about the plebeian - (and YES I do know what it means and use the word freely and in context) - who thinks that people only ever put on weight because they eat too much- I don't know WHAT ill has befallen you to make you feel so inadequate that you have to try to bring others down, but I only hope that you find the pills you seem so keen to swallow by the mouthful, to make you feel human again; because being human enough to ride should be a major incentive!" Suzanne Wild, Designer & MD Fuller Fillies Limited.


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## Blitzen (9 October 2012)

^
Huh??? In english, please, lorac_uk?


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## rhino (9 October 2012)

Laura-C said:



			^
Huh??? In english, please, lorac_uk?
		
Click to expand...

I'm guessing she doesn't like people questioning why on earth there is a need for a company (her company) to produce a 22" saddle...


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

Goodness me how professional!


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## rhino (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Goodness me how professional!
		
Click to expand...

Sadly it reinforces everything I've heard about them before


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## Blitzen (9 October 2012)

The bit about 'pills to swallow', and 'being human enough' to ride really threw me. What a load of twaddle! How about being human enough to realise that if your fat arse needs a 22 inch saddle, you probably shouldn't be sitting on a horse?


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## Sparkles (9 October 2012)

Back to my genuine original point Suzanne, can I genuinely ask, for more info on how the saddles are fitted please? PM if you wish. I'm genuinely curious.



ChristmasSparkles said:



			Again. I did not mean it offensively, so glad it wasn't taken that way. 

My lad, again, could carry an 18" saddle, though I ride him in a 17.5". I'm aware he has a long back and I feel like I am erring on the side of heavy for him as a regular rider at 12 stone. That's not me being OTT about my weight, but, just me knowing my horse and what he could withstand. I wouldn't advise anyone heavier than that to ride him, as I don't honestly think he's got  the conformation for it. But that said, he IS a TB, and one with incorrect conformation ideally, and not bred to be that, so not really uncommon.

Even some of our big HW hunters....yes, they were perfectly capable of taking as much weight needed as that's their type, but, they still had spot on conformation and were not long in the back, so still were 18" saddles at an absolute push. The majority, still wore 17.5".
Long backs are always drilled to be conformation faults, and more prone to injury, so I wouldn't think of them as being able to be weight carriers.

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/217353_1026902726623_4172_n.jpg

17.3hh ID.

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/2586_1076735452410_5200308_n.jpg

18.3hh Shire x TB.


Same goes for the cobs. Up to the weight, that's no problem, but should be short backed and strong, so again, most are 16.5-17" saddles. 

Which I think, where the problems lie. I'm not opposed to weight at all, as there's plenty of horses out there who can cope with that no problem, but, I just don't see how, a 22" seat is physically possible that's all.

I'm curious if anyone could explain or expand on that at to me all, as I'm happy to see the reasoning 

Click to expand...


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

rhino said:



			Sadly it reinforces everything I've heard about them before 

Click to expand...

Good way to lose all of us ignorant, full of our own importance potential customers with so much time on our hands for internet shopping, in one fell swoop. Class


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## tallyho! (9 October 2012)

Sienna mum, no need to get bolshy. i apologise, it seems we have got our wires crossed, which I have now figured out.

While we have all gotten carried away with seat length, you have been talking about the whole saddle. Which is fine although still doesn't explain why you need a bigger "seat" when you leg angle changes as you eluded to earlier. 

I think I know what you mean but I see it as flap length and I don't change seat length in order to accommodate the leg. This I am afraid is where I will beg to differ and accept your opinion on the matter. It's just how differently we see things and I'm not about to try and change your views and you will not change mine. No worries, I respect your views.


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## rhino (9 October 2012)

http://www.facebook.com/FullerFillies?fref=ts

Interesting  So no time for forums but bitching about forums on social media is another story.


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## Littlelegs (9 October 2012)

Obviously its not occurred to md fuller that some of us are offended on behalf of any horse unfortunate to be ridden by anyone needing a 22" saddle. Perhaps that forum posted earlier might be more receptive to her. Personally, I'd rather someone thought I had an unhealthy imbalance of free time & ignorance, than an unhealthy imbalance of overhanging flab in a normal saddle.


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## Tnavas (9 October 2012)

Tallyho - the flap length is fone when considering a dressage saddle where the leg is straighter and when you have long legs its a pain when the top of your boot catches the bottom of the flap.

However this doesn't work when you are fitting a GP or jumping saddle where the thigh of the rider is more in front of the rider.

I have loong legs and a GP 17½" - when I take up my stirrups for jumping to a length I find comfortable and that provides me with a stable leg it pushes me back in the saddle as the forward cut is not enough with the seat size. A larger seat will give me more room between the centre of the seat and the front of the saddle to accomodate my long upper legs.


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## smokey (9 October 2012)

rhino said:



http://www.facebook.com/FullerFillies?fref=ts

Interesting  So no time for forums but bitching about forums on social media is another story.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, apparently we are all just bullying the big girls, it's not fair to make fun of these people, many of whom appear to have half a horse hanging out of their arse. Never mind making fun, a bit of sympathy for the poor horses is obviously out of bounds as well. These girls are probably all skilled riders, who ride light!


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## rhino (9 October 2012)

smokey said:



			Yes, apparently we are all just bullying the big girls, it's not fair to make fun of these people, many of whom appear to have half a horse hanging out of their arse. Never mind making fun, a bit of sympathy for the poor horses is obviously out of bounds as well. These girls are probably all skilled riders, who ride light! 

Click to expand...

Don't think you can call them 'big girls'. 'Fluffies' confused or 'Real' women seem to be the accepted terms


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## Daytona (9 October 2012)

I'm 5"10 and a 17.5 GP or jumping was just too small for me my legs poked past end I had to get 18" seat and 2" cut forward more on my made to measure Black Country jumping saddle.  

And I'm not a Fuller filly or what ever they called , I'm just tall with long legs.


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## Jesstickle (9 October 2012)

rhino said:



http://www.facebook.com/FullerFillies?fref=ts

Interesting  So no time for forums but bitching about forums on social media is another story.
		
Click to expand...

And bitching about comments made by some poor innocent in relation to the news article posted too. She seems like a lovely piece of work. Good job I don't need to buy anything from her eh? 

I also love the fact that it must be ok because the Daily Fail says will accept a piece on it or something


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

Re the riding light thermo imaging thing. What is that actual supposed to prove. Sitting squint in a horse wrecks its back. Really?

But if you are fluffy you cannot be squint?  Where is the control in this "study".


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## YorksG (9 October 2012)

rhino said:



			Don't think you can call them 'big girls'. 'Fluffies' confused or 'Real' women seem to be the accepted terms 

Click to expand...

Does that mean that women who are less than size 16 are all figments of our own imaginations?


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## Blitzen (9 October 2012)

Its the way its deemed to be "bullying" towards the "happy riders" on the US thread... hilarious. What about the poor beasts quivering under the weight of the ma-hoo-sive morbidly obese (sorry... "fluffy") women?? The riders may be smiling, but that appy's knees are about to buckle. Or is that not an issue? Nope? That's real classy, Fuller Fillies


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## YorksG (9 October 2012)

Laura-C said:



			Its the way its deemed to be "bullying" towards the "happy riders" on the US thread... hilarious. What about the poor beasts quivering under the weight of the ma-hoo-sive morbidly obese (sorry... "fluffy") women?? The riders may be smiling, but that appy's knees are about to buckle. Or is that not an issue? Nope? That's real classy, Fuller Fillies 

Click to expand...

I think one of the problems is that people think Appy's are all weight carriers, our Old Appy was, used to carry my then (now ex  ) OH, 15 stone ex-rugby player with no problem at all, she was 15.3 built like the proverbial brick outhouse. Current Appy, 15.3 dainty part arab part TB registered Appy, wouldn't want anyone much over 12st on her for any length of time at all. I think the 'real' women on that site don't understand the difference.


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## smokey (9 October 2012)

rhino said:



			Don't think you can call them 'big girls'. 'Fluffies' confused or 'Real' women seem to be the accepted terms 

Click to expand...

Well, Mika called them big girls, and he said they were beautiful. Mind you, he's a bit odd, so he probably doesn't count.  Surely "fluffies" could just shave?


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## Blitzen (9 October 2012)

I'm not fantastic at maths, but is 15 stone around the 200lb mark? Nothing like the 300lb+ that those women are bragging about being!
I think the main problem is probably that they don't give a crap about their horses welfare  if they want something to cart them around because they can't [be bothered to] walk, then get a bluddy mobility scooter, not some poor animal that is deemed to be a suitable mount because it "hasn't stumbled once" with them aboard. Its really sad, actually, made even sadder by the fact that a (once) respected company condones their actions


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## ClassicG&T (9 October 2012)

22" is just insane. I'm pretty long legged and fit in a forward cut 17" fine. A horse shouldn't have to carry that much weight! 
Wish people would lose weight instead of finding ways around it


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## TrasaM (9 October 2012)

smokey said:



			Yes, apparently we are all just bullying the big girls, it's not fair to make fun of these people, many of whom appear to have half a horse hanging out of their arse.  

Click to expand...

So are the zebra print jods a means of camouflage ?   ah, sorry no point asking in this forum of plebeians.


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			So are the zebra print jods a means of camouflage ?   ah, sorry no point asking in this forum of plebeians. 

Click to expand...

I read black tack, black jods and a black horse is the way to go.


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## TrasaM (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			I read black tack, black jods and a black horse is the way to go. 

Click to expand...

Maybe Zebra is the new black


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			Maybe Zebra is the new black 

Click to expand...

Stripes definitely make you wider


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## smokey (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Stripes definitely make you wider 

Click to expand...

I think the majority on that forum are beyond using stripes to slim them down to be honest.


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## Shooting Star (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Stripes definitely make you wider 

Click to expand...

no, no, no that's hoops! strips are supposed to slim


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## rhino (9 October 2012)

Deleted.


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## ester (9 October 2012)

lorac_uk said:



			I
Whoever you are madam, I am talking about the plebeian - (and YES I do know what it means and use the word freely and in context) - who thinks that people only ever put on weight because they eat too much- I don't know WHAT ill has befallen you to make you feel so inadequate that you have to try to bring others down, but I only hope that you find the pills you seem so keen to swallow by the mouthful, to make you feel human again; because being human enough to ride should be a major incentive!" Suzanne Wild, Designer & MD Fuller Fillies Limited.
		
Click to expand...


This has come up several times in the past and the point still stands.. 

The cause of why someone is overweight is irrelevant in this context because the horse doesn't know the difference if its because you had a good christmas or you have started taking steroids. 

Congratulations on just doing your business absolutely no good at all


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## Shooting Star (9 October 2012)

rhino said:



			What about bands? 


Gastric bands

Click to expand...


reckon they do work too, although no pun intended i actually did mean STRIPES and not strips - personally from being a size 14/16 myself I can confirm that stripping does not make me appear slimmer


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## TrasaM (9 October 2012)

Polly Peewee said:



			reckon they do work too, although no pun intended i actually did mean STRIPES and not strips - personally from being a size 14/16 myself I can confirm that stripping does not make me appear slimmer 

Click to expand...

Lol. Polly..did you really mean stripping


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## ester (9 October 2012)

ah.. the above from FF was posted by a groupie.. fabulous!


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## dominobrown (9 October 2012)

Having just read the american thread, fuller fillies page etc, I have a conclusion to this thread:
1) Some people are naturally thin, others are not. This through no fault of their own. I personally am not model thin and never will be.
2) Just because you are bigger doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to ride a horse- however you must take into consideration- size and type of horse and the horses comfort and welfare.
3) Riding is a sport and therefore you should be *scratch that* MUST be relatively fit to ride for your own safety!
4) Being morbidly obese is not something to be proud of, not all of us are stick thin, but that doesn't mean you should eat a whole cake, sit on the sofa doing nothing and then complain about being called fat. In an ideal world everyone should be fit and healthy, which is different sizes/weights to different people, however by being morbidly obese you are strain to the NHS and everyone around, being that big is not clever, and the person you are hurting the most is yourself. Strive to be fit and healthy, not thin.


p.s "you" refers to no person in particular, but is just used in general.


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## Baggybreeches (9 October 2012)

YasandCrystal said:



			I agree it's quite ridiculous as few horses can take an 18" saddle let alone one bigger than that.
		
Click to expand...

That's a pretty ignorant comment, I know of an 11.2 lead rein pony who had an 18'' saddle specially made for her due to a number of issues, it didn't look out of place. I have a 15.2 and a 17.1 and they both have 17'' saddles because that's the size that I prefer/am best suited to.
I don't think that overweight people should feel that it's OK to continue to ride whilst being too heavy but it depends on what type of horse they have and what they are doing with it, and don't forget it could be the incentive they need to get fit and lose weight.


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			Lol. Polly..did you really mean stripping 

Click to expand...

There is an interesting body stocking pic on the FF FB Photo page which may help with clarifying Polly's interesting approach to slimming


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## Shooting Star (9 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			Lol. Polly..did you really mean stripping 

Click to expand...

definetely NOBODY wants to see me do that - far too many wobbly bits these days, now if only I could put down the glass of wine and pick up the dumbell that is right next to it ...


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## smokey (9 October 2012)

lorac_uk;
Whoever you are madam said:
			
		


			I completely agree with you  Lorac_uk. Not everyone who is a bit on the large side eats too much. Some of them are big boned.  Some of their belly bones are *****ng enormous.
I must congratulate you on your fantastic public relations campaign. Phase 1 seems to be going well so far 

Click to expand...


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## Littlelegs (9 October 2012)

Is it wrong that everytime I see 'ff' wrote, I think of it as meaning something else? The first word is a derogatory term for being overweight, the second is a swear word.


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## Shooting Star (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			There is an interesting body stocking pic on the FF FB Photo page which may help with clarifying Polly's interesting approach to slimming 

Click to expand...

oh-la, missed that one - shall endeavour with my normal approach to attempting to shift the pounds though ta, 'tis motivation and less office work that is required ... although if somebody made me ride in one of those I would either a) give up in which case the boy wins or b) lose a huge amount of weight to make it look good, so maybe it is the answer for me afterall


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## Shantara (9 October 2012)

If I was as large as some of the people in that thread, I would not ride! Doesn't mean they can't be around horses though, they could do in-hand, bombproofing, agility, drive, etc...there's so much you can do with them without getting on their backs.


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## smokey (9 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Is it wrong that everytime I see 'ff' wrote, I think of it as meaning something else? The first word is a derogatory term for being overweight, the second is a swear word.
		
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Rofl! Bloody hilarious!


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## TrasaM (9 October 2012)

Polly Peewee said:



			oh-la, missed that one - shall endeavour with my normal approach to attempting to shift the pounds though ta, 'tis motivation and less office work that is required ... although if somebody made me ride in one of those I would either a) give up in which case the boy wins or b) lose a huge amount of weight to make it look good, so maybe it is the answer for me afterall 

Click to expand...

Couldn't find the all in one slimming body suit but I am reassured to read on their FB page that 'Bums Tums and Boobs we've got them covered'.  That's a relief


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## FfionWinnie (9 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			Couldn't find the all in one slimming body suit but I am reassured to read on their FB page that 'Bums Tums and Boobs we've got them covered'.  That's a relief 

Click to expand...

It was actually a naked suit for a fancy dress competition.


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## TrasaM (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			It was actually a naked suit for a fancy dress competition.
		
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Nooooo? Off to have another look ..


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## smokey (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			It was actually a naked suit for a fancy dress competition.
		
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Oh dear, Little Britain lives and breathes!


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## Shooting Star (9 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			It was actually a naked suit for a fancy dress competition.
		
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hmm, there's a local fancy dress SJ coming up in a few weeks ... what the hell, why bother paying for the hire of a suit


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## TrasaM (9 October 2012)

Polly Peewee said:



			hmm, there's a local fancy dress SJ coming up in a few weeks ... what the hell, why bother paying for the hire of a suit 

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Does seem like an unnecessary expense when you've already got a perfectly good one FOC.    Still not found the naked suit and got sidetracked by the pictures of cakes  I think I need a snack.


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## Littlelegs (9 October 2012)

Urgh, smokey please, I've just had supper, & now have a horrid image of the little Britain sketch with the huge naked woman at a health spa/country club riding a horse. I'm mentally scarred for life!


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## smokey (9 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Urgh, smokey please, I've just had supper, & now have a horrid image of the little Britain sketch with the huge naked woman at a health spa/country club riding a horse. I'm mentally scarred for life!
		
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Call me Bubbles darling!


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## Littlelegs (9 October 2012)

The name went right out of my head! 'call me bubbles darling, I'm your new area rep for ff, now where's my 22" saddle?'


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## popeyesno1fan (9 October 2012)

Yip, totally agree. If you dont fit in the saddle, then dont ride. Well, in general. I had a saddle fitter here last year to fit the saddle on the horse. She laughed and said the saddle fitted the horse, but aud, you may need to ride longer in it, as your long friggin legs dont fit it when riding short. I dont care as saddle fits horse, but took a bit of getting used to. If i was too heavy, I'd die!! In fairness, my fatso would carry weight, but he'd have to have the right saddle. It's a tough one, I've seen both sides, horses that had heavy riders, and strong horses with light riders. both disasterous. If it's going to be a long term relationship, then getting a saddle made that fits you and the horse is the way to go!!


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## piebaldsparkle (9 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			Does seem like an unnecessary expense when you've already got a perfectly good one FOC.    Still not found the naked suit and got sidetracked by the pictures of cakes  I think I need a snack.
		
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Here you go


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## smokey (9 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			The name went right out of my head! 'call me bubbles darling, I'm your new area rep for ff, now where's my 22" saddle?'
		
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Lol, I think you may be sitting on it, but it's hard to tell!


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## TrasaM (10 October 2012)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Here you go






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Thank you and Ffion for the PM too... That looks lie a flesh coloured body suit and padding is all models own I think.


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## Shooting Star (10 October 2012)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Here you go






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my suit looks much more realistic so I'm feeling confident that I could win, although do you think a body protector would ruin the look... oh and I'm a little worried about chaffing?


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## TrasaM (10 October 2012)

Just use lots of Vaseline. It's guaranteed to prevent chafing even in the most extreme cases


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## piebaldsparkle (10 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			padding is all models own I think.
		
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without doubt she states she is a size 32 and think she is American, so 34 UK sizing???


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## Shooting Star (10 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			Just use lots of Vaseline. It's guaranteed to prevent chafing even in the most extreme cases 

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all very well but should I end up eating dirt well, I shudder to think where that sand could go, no in balance I think the body suit is the way to go


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## Mince Pie (10 October 2012)

Originally Posted by TrasaM  
Just use lots of Vaseline. It's guaranteed to prevent chafing even in the most extreme cases
		
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Polly Peewee said:



			all very well but should I end up eating dirt well, I shudder to think where that sand could go, no in balance I think the body suit is the way to go 

Click to expand...

Just snorted tea all over the keyboard! What a waste


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## Littlelegs (10 October 2012)

Fw- thanks for pm, on phone so can't reply.
Like a bp is required for that picture? Will bounce, literally. Maybe a new way of charting rider falls, in seismic waves. Could put a whole new twist on badminton too, falls at the water jump could be greeted with cries of '****, tsunami!'. Afaik, us sizes are two sizes smaller, so size 36.


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## tallyho! (10 October 2012)

Tnavas said:



			Tallyho - the flap length is fone when considering a dressage saddle where the leg is straighter and when you have long legs its a pain when the top of your boot catches the bottom of the flap.

However this doesn't work when you are fitting a GP or jumping saddle where the thigh of the rider is more in front of the rider.

I have loong legs and a GP 17½" - when I take up my stirrups for jumping to a length I find comfortable and that provides me with a stable leg it pushes me back in the saddle as the forward cut is not enough with the seat size. A larger seat will give me more room between the centre of the seat and the front of the saddle to accomodate my long upper legs.
		
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Hi Tnavas, you can also get flaps custom made you know so you don't have to change seat size. 

The reason people go up a size is because they buy off the shelf 

I had mine made. My dressage and my GP. I too have what you call loong legs and my legs fit fine in 17" seat with slightly longer flaps in front for GP and down below for dressage. Flapping brilliant!!! 

Gone are the days of me riding 17.3 hunters so I've downsized. When I downsized to a 15.3 short coupled jumping machine, I didn't have the luxury of extra back length so we did struggle with cheap ones for a while until I bit the bullet and had them made.

I don't really want to argue with you too, so, I'd like to leave it as that. You think one way, I think another. It works for me, it works for you. All happy


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## Armas (10 October 2012)

chrisritch said:



			Its probably terrified of being eaten
		
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Was there a need to make such a derogatory comment, its not constructive and and I am lost for words. 



WelshD said:



			Whilst I agree with many comments on this thread (I am very large and wouldn't dream of riding a horse at anywhere near my current weight) I do think that some of the comments towards the people who bravely put their pics up on the US thread are a bit unfair, I hope to goodness none of them stumble across this thread 

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This ^^^^



littlelegs said:



			Tbh, I couldn't care less if they read any derogatory comments. Some of those pictures are downright cruel, & I couldn't give a flying **** about the feelings of someone who is cruel to an animal. If people insist on loading their gigantic lardy selves onto a horse blatantly far too small & causing suffering they can only expect people with decent morals to be offended. As it is, I'd be equally derogatory if it featured small slim adults riding 7hh minis.
		
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Gigantically lardy That kind of comment is just not ok, I understand your point I understand that you care about the horses but the way you have expressed your point sadness me.



rhino said:



			I disagree. Obesity is very much the unspoken epidemic in this country; perhaps if it was more openly discussed/discussable then it wouldn't be as bad as it is now.

Turning a blind eye to it will never help. The fact is that people are getting bigger and heavier and at some point that will impact on the tack that is 'needed'.
		
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Rhino yet again another good post.......

I have posted a comment on that forum, along the lines of .....Its great to see so many plus sized people out there riding  The only thing I would say from some of the pictures is please make sure your horse is suitable for your size. As I am sure no one would knowingly want to harm there horses back.

I have managed to get my point across but with out being derogatory.


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

Laura-C said:



			^
Huh??? In english, please, lorac_uk?
		
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I think she is referring to me when I said I have to take pills to avoid nausea. The pills that have enabled me to eat enough food to have the energy to do my job. The pills that have given me an insite to what it must be like to be a foodaholic. Shows that she has little compassion for people who are ill and rely on medication. Obviously, that makes me a pleb.


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

lorac_uk said:



			Whoever you are madam, I am talking about the plebeian - (and YES I do know what it means and use the word freely and in context) - who thinks that people only ever put on weight because they eat too much- I don't know WHAT ill has befallen you to make you feel so inadequate that you have to try to bring others down, but I only hope that you find the pills you seem so keen to swallow by the mouthful, to make you feel human again; because being human enough to ride should be a major incentive!" Suzanne Wild, Designer & MD Fuller Fillies Limited.
		
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I presume you are referring to my post below?



Wagtail said:



			What gets me, is that they do not feel ashamed or embarassed about it. If I was unfortunate enough to put on that much weight, there is no way I would sit on a horse, not only because I would feel cruel, but because I would worry about what other people would think. I have always been skinny until the past year when I was put onto some pills to help with my severe morning sickness (non pregnancy related). The pills give me a ravenous appetite and I piled on 20 pounds in 4 months. Okay, so that only took me to ten and a half stone, half a stone of which I have now lost. But I have, for the first time in my life had to deal with being a foodaholic. I totally get why these people cannot stop eating. It is REALLY HARD. I lost the half stone but it is a constant daily battle not to pile the weight back on. Of course, I could just come off the pills, and I tried that, but found that I couldn't function as my nausea had more than doubled in intensity. I don't mind staying on them though as they have completely stopped my migraines and my allergic itching. However, I now have rolls of fat that I never have had before and I HATE it. What I am saying, is that I know how hard it is to resist food when you are a foodie, but it can be done, and getting/staying slim enough to ride should be a major incentive.
		
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Here, I am actually saying that I understand what it is like to be unable to resist over eating. But this somehow makes me a 'plebeian'? Like it or not, in the vast majority of cases, people are overweight because they are eating more than they are using up. There are very few people who are overweight because of medication or other health reasons. If you go onto discussion boards for my own medication, you will see that loads of people have put on in excess of four stone. Some of them blame the medication and insist that they are not over eating. The others (including myself) say that they are putting on weight because the medication gives them a ravenous appetite. Guess which ones manage to lose the weight or stabilize their weight? 

And you, as MD of Fuller Fillies, come on here and accuse someone who is on medication and simply sharing their experience of not being human? You should be ashamed of yourself. From the word human, comes the word HUMANE. You think it is absolutely fine for people who are far too heavy for their horses to carry on, without negative comment? What about the horses? I don't give a fig if I offend anyone who is doing this to their horses. I hate cruelty and this is cruelty, plain and simple. I am not talking about 17 - 18 stone men and women who are suitably mounted, but those hefty men and women, some of whom are 20 stone plus, thinking they have the right to inflict their bulk on some poor uncomplaining animal just because it doesn't stagger when they get on.


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## eahotson (10 October 2012)

Armas said:



			Was there a need to make such a derogatory comment, its not constructive and and I am lost for words. 



This ^^^^



Gigantically lardy That kind of comment is just not ok, I understand your point I understand that you care about the horses but the way you have expressed your point sadness me.



Rhino yet again another good post.......

I have posted a comment on that forum, along the lines of .....Its great to see so many plus sized people out there riding  The only thing I would say from some of the pictures is please make sure your horse is suitable for your size. As I am sure no one would knowingly want to harm there horses back.

I have managed to get my point across but with out being derogatory.
		
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I agree with that post there.


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## Jesstickle (10 October 2012)

Wagtail said:



			I presume you are referring to my post below?



Here, I am actually saying that I understand what it is like to be unable to resist over eating. But this somehow makes me a 'plebeian'? Like it or not, in the vast majority of cases, people are overweight because they are eating more than they are using up. There are very few people who are overweight because of medication or other health reasons. If you go onto discussion boards for my own medication, you will see that loads of people have put on in excess of four stone. Some of them blame the medication and insist that they are not over eating. The others (including myself) say that they are putting on weight because the medication gives them a ravenous appetite. Guess which ones manage to lose the weight or stabilize their weight? 

And you, as MD of Fuller Fillies, come on here and accuse someone who is on medication and simply sharing their experience of not being human? You should be ashamed of yourself. From the word human, comes the word HUMANE. You think it is absolutely fine for people who are far too heavy for their horses to carry on, without negative comment? What about the horses? I don't give a fig if I offend anyone who is doing this to their horses. I hate cruelty and this is cruelty, plain and simple. I am not talking about 17 - 18 stone men and women who are suitably mounted, but those hefty men and women, some of whom are 20 stone plus, thinking they have the right to inflict their bulk on some poor uncomplaining animal just because it doesn't stagger when they get on.
		
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Quite right Wagtail. I know you and I sometimes have differences of opinion but to imply you're some kind of evil bully is just unfair


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

Armas said:



			I have posted a comment on that forum, along the lines of .....Its great to see so many plus sized people out there riding  The only thing I would say from some of the pictures is please make sure your horse is suitable for your size. As I am sure no one would knowingly want to harm there horses back.

I have managed to get my point across but with out being derogatory.
		
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I hope so, Armas. Sadly, I have found that those people most worried about whether their horse can comfortably carry them are not the ones who should really be worried! I fear that your comment will go right over the heads of those who are the worst offenders.


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## Goldenstar (10 October 2012)

Well I am enjoying this , and Thankyou for the link to the FF page I was feeling decided lardey having bought some size 14 breeches and just returning from holiday .
Having looked the ff site I feel fab and have just had some toast before going to squish my horses
Thanks everyone


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## eahotson (10 October 2012)

Well you know some of the people who make the most derogatory comments are people with weight issues.Have friend P who weighs about 15 to 16 stone and is about 5ft.4.She does in all fiarness have a good big weight carrying horse who I am sure has no trouble carrying her.However she once said to me that she wouldn't want any great fat lumps riding her horse! Excuse me?


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## Puppy (10 October 2012)

jesstickle said:



			And bitching about comments made by some poor innocent in relation to the news article posted too. She seems like a lovely piece of work. Good job I don't need to buy anything from her eh? 

I also love the fact that it must be ok because the Daily Fail says will accept a piece on it or something 

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JT, you seem to be posting everything that I'm thinking this morning, but beating me to it.


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## FfionWinnie (10 October 2012)

I totally agree wagtail. The worst offenders on that forum are completely oblivious to the fact their horses are too small for them.  Some of those horses don't look capable of carrying 10 stone due to their conformation and lack of bone never mind 22 stone which I think is a conservative estimate for some of them. 

Add to the fact the ill fitting tack. Well. I'm sorry but it's not right.


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## Capriole (10 October 2012)

eahotson said:



			Well you know some of the people who make the most derogatory comments are people with weight issues.
		
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Ive noticed that.  Ive been on the receiving end of larger girls making snide comments on my weight/size, or lack of it. Seems to be OK that way round but if Id have been making 'fluffy' comments at them Id have been way out of order it seems.
I also object to the whole 'REAL' women thing you hear, ie on Fuller Fillies site, the implication you arent a real woman unless youre size 16 or over? What bollox.


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## rhino (10 October 2012)

Capriole said:



			Ive noticed that.  Ive been on the receiving end of larger girls making snide comments on my weight/size, or lack of it. Seems to be OK that way round but if Id have been making 'fluffy' comments at them Id have been way out of order it seems.
I also object to the whole 'REAL' women thing you hear, ie on Fuller Fillies site, the implication you arent a real woman unless youre size 16 or over? What bollox.
		
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Did you not see all the 'you can't be sexy if you are skinny' memes on there too  Who was it talking about prejudice again?

Wagtail yes they were referring to you, someone quoted your post saying it made them cry, and although Suzanne hasn't actually read the thread on here she decided that your 'bigotry' needed 'challenging'


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## Mongoose11 (10 October 2012)

rhino said:



			Did you not see all the 'you can't be sexy if you are skinny' memes on there too  Who was it talking about prejudice again?

Wagtail yes they were referring to you, someone quoted your post saying it made them cry, and although Suzanne hasn't actually read the thread on here she decided that your 'bigotry' needed 'challenging' 

Click to expand...

Can I have a link? Who is challenging bigotry?


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## Armas (10 October 2012)

It does not matter if your large skinny black or white...... It's not acceptable to insult some one because of the way they look.
There are ways and means of putting a point across without being derogatory.


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## rhino (10 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Can I have a link? Who is challenging bigotry?
		
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http://www.facebook.com/FullerFillies


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## Capriole (10 October 2012)

rhino said:



			Did you not see all the 'you can't be sexy if you are skinny' memes on there too  Who was it talking about prejudice again?
		
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No I didnt hang around, just had a look at the comments re. here, and clicked out again.


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## Jesstickle (10 October 2012)

Puppy said:



			JT, you seem to be posting everything that I'm thinking this morning, but beating me to it. 

Click to expand...

I try


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## ester (10 October 2012)

as a company owner.. to get someone else to reply to a thread without you actually having read it just seems utter madness to me.


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## Puppy (10 October 2012)

ester said:



			as a company owner.. to get someone else to reply to a thread without you actually having read it just seems utter madness to me.
		
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It's some of the worst PR I've seen since Heather Moffett posted on here!


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

I've just read the facebook page and see someone was trying to put things into perspective (ie that we are talking about massively overweight people on that other forum riding totally unsuitable horses) only to be shot down. It does seem odd that my post is the one that has been highlighted, when actually, I think it is quite polite and trying to say that I do understand what it is like to be fighting against food cravings. There have been far blunter and ruder posts on here than mine. Just makes her look ignorant IMO.


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

Puppy said:



			It's some of the worst PR I've seen since Heather Moffett posted on here! 

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Lol 

I thought it was particularly unprofessional when she seemed to revel in it after she's posted. Like she expected a round of applause or something.


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## Sparkles (10 October 2012)

Sigh. I suppose I should give up on trying to get an educated answer as to how 22" saddles are fitted, and relations to conformation, ie, back length v weight bearing capacity then....

I'd have thought with how meticulously this thread is being watched, someone could have enlightened more on the product as to how it was designed. Whether by a follow article, or whatever means.


*twaddles out*


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## Littlelegs (10 October 2012)

I actually will defend my right to make comments like gigantic or lardy with reference to those riders who are cruelly inflicting themselves on too small horses. As I said, if it was someone slim doing something cruel, I'd make equally personal & offensive remarks. Not sure why its ok for some of the bigger riders to make derogatory comments about thin people but doing the same in return about bigger people isn't? I'd be the first to defend a heavier rider on a horse suitable for carrying them if someone made personal comments. But soon as someone does something cruel, their feelings no longer concern me.


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			I actually will defend my right to make comments like gigantic or lardy with reference to those riders who are cruelly inflicting themselves on too small horses. As I said, if it was someone slim doing something cruel, I'd make equally personal & offensive remarks. Not sure why its ok for some of the bigger riders to make derogatory comments about thin people but doing the same in return about bigger people isn't? I'd be the first to defend a heavier rider on a horse suitable for carrying them if someone made personal comments. But soon as someone does something cruel, their feelings no longer concern me.
		
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I think the fact that no one has button pushed shows that there is considerable support for you too! 



ChristmasSparkles said:



			Sigh. I suppose I should give up on trying to get an educated answer as to how 22" saddles are fitted, and relations to conformation, ie, back length v weight bearing capacity then....

I'd have thought with how meticulously this thread is being watched, someone could have enlightened more on the product as to how it was designed. Whether by a follow article, or whatever means.
		
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I do find it extremely odd, that the MD of a company cannot be bothered to read a thread discussing their products! On a forum which is arguably the largest horsey online community in the world.


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## Clava (10 October 2012)

The US forum thread now has a link to this thread.


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## rhino (10 October 2012)

Clava said:



			The US forum thread now has a link to this thread.
		
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Was expecting that too; I recognised a fair few members on there from here.


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## Littlelegs (10 October 2012)

I was also quote suprised by the post from ff with the comments about the pleb, as I couldn't think who she meant. I was highly suprised it was Wagtails post, if there was going to be outrage I would have expected it to be aimed at posts like mine, definitely not at Wagtail.


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## rhino (10 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			I was also quote suprised by the post from ff with the comments about the pleb, as I couldn't think who she meant. I was highly suprised it was Wagtails post, if there was going to be outrage I would have expected it to be aimed at posts like mine, definitely not at Wagtail.
		
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Yes, but as Ms Wild hasn't actually read the thread, only the one post of Wagtail's that was quoted on the FF Facebook page, it is rather difficult to make an informed opinion 

It's a shame the mini shetland thread from a while back was removed, where the 7 1/2 stone person was being told she was too big for a poor looking tiny pony... Obviously HHO is just prejudiced against the morbidly obese.


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

rhino said:



			Yes, but as Ms Wild hasn't actually read the thread, only the one post of Wagtail's that was quoted on the FF Facebook page, it is rather difficult to make an informed opinion 

It's a shame the mini shetland thread from a while back was removed, where the 7 1/2 stone person was being told she was too big for a poor looking tiny pony... Obviously HHO is just prejudiced against the morbidly obese.
		
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Haha, yes, I got a temporary ban for that.


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## Puppy (10 October 2012)

Clava said:



			The US forum thread now has a link to this thread.
		
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It was only a matter of time, and is maybe no bad thing. 

Whilst I've no wish to ridicule anyone for the way that they look, or health problems they suffer from, some of those pictured in the other thread really do need their eyes opening to the cruelty that they are inflicting.    The horse in the bottom picture on the first page must be in so much pain


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

Puppy said:



			It was only a matter of time, and is maybe no bad thing. 

Whilst I've no wish to ridicule anyone for the way that they look, or health problems they suffer from, some of those pictured in the other thread really do need their eyes opening to the cruelty that they are inflicting.    The horse in the bottom picture on the first page must be in so much pain 

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It's heartbreaking. It seems to be looking at the camera and saying 'help me, please.'


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## Littlelegs (10 October 2012)

I don't remember the shetland post, but I would have been equally outraged by that by the sounds of it. Good post rhino.


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## Copperpot (10 October 2012)

I'm not a real woman according to FF  now that's quite rude in itself. Some people find it hard to put on weight and are naturally skinny.


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## Goldenstar (10 October 2012)

Oh wagtail you seem to have been a bad bad girl !!!


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

Copperpot said:



			I'm not a real woman according to FF  now that's quite rude in itself. Some people find it hard to put on weight and are naturally skinny.
		
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Exactly. I was at breaking point with my illness. It was getting progessively worse. I had seven horses to care for single handedly and I could not keep any food down me until at least 2 pm. By then I was weak and shaking with low blood sugar. I would sometimes be brought to tears with the frustration of being unable to eat, and then when I could eat, of being unable to enjoy it! But this MD of Fuller Fillies has seen fit to call me a plebeian, and say that I need to throw pills down my throat in order to feel human. How nasty is that!? And all that without taking the time to read this thread and see my comments in context.


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

Goldenstar said:



			Oh wagtail you seem to have been a bad bad girl !!!
		
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Yep. I was hauled over for inappropriate use of the forum. I started a thread after this person had posted pictures of herself squishing a mini and yanking it around by the mouth.


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## Puppy (10 October 2012)

Wagtail said:



			It's heartbreaking. It seems to be looking at the camera and saying 'help me, please.'
		
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Not a good day for that poor horse  

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/dancer-i-did-90688/


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## Goldenstar (10 October 2012)

Wagtail said:



			Exactly. I was at breaking point with my illness. It was getting progessively worse. I had seven horses to care for single handedly and I could not keep any food down me until at least 2 pm. By then I was weak and shaking with low blood sugar. I would sometimes be brought to tears with the frustration of being unable to eat, and then when I could eat, of being unable to enjoy it! But this MD of Fuller Fillies has seen fit to call me a plebeian, and say that I need to throw pills down my throat in order to feel human. How nasty is that!? And all that without taking the time to read this thread and see my comments in context.
		
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It is my experiance of oversenesitve people/ groups that their senestivity only extends to them selves and views they hold  others are expected to have no feeling at all if they have the express views that differ to theirs.


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## Flame_ (10 October 2012)

OMFG 

It just goes to show that if you look hard enough you can always find someone to support you no matter how mad the thing you are doing is. There's probably a forum out there for like-minded serial killers.


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## flump (10 October 2012)

Poor poor horse!!!!


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## Nightmare before Christmas (10 October 2012)

Flame_ said:



			OMFG 

It just goes to show that if you look hard enough you can always find someone to support you no matter how mad the thing you are doing is. There's probably a forum out there for like-minded serial killers. 

Click to expand...

I have yet to find one  





JOKE


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## touchstone (10 October 2012)

Wagtail said:



			Yep. I was hauled over for inappropriate use of the forum. I started a thread after this person had posted pictures of herself squishing a mini and yanking it around by the mouth.
		
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Good for you Wagtail!  

Political correctness can be a bad thing, a fat person is a fat person, calling them 'fluffy'  won't disguise the fact that they are fat, whether due to overreating or health issues.  

 I think the majority of people here don't have an issue with fat people, or fat people riding, but when they choose to put their excessive weight on an unsuitable animals spine then I think it is only fair that people are allowed to express their concerns for the sake of the animals involved.

Instead of catering for morbily obese riders by providing huge saddles, which I feel gives approval for them to inflict their weight on a horse, perhaps ways of enjoying horses from the ground and weight loss programmes if they definitely want to ride should be looked into.


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## rhino (10 October 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			Poor poor horse!!!!
		
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Pony! She is an absolutely stunning pony though, I'd love a grulla!
http://www.horseforum.com/horses.php?horse=3011


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## Littlelegs (10 October 2012)

I feel so so sad for that poor dancer, how can anyone say things like 'she was carrying twice as much as the others, couldn't buck, not exactly young, needed a rest after 2miles' & still get on its back? It's way beyond me how someone can be so cruel & yet pretend they care.


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## touchstone (10 October 2012)

badgermyers said:



			I have yet to find one  





JOKE
		
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Had to laugh at this


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## Goldenstar (10 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			I feel so so sad for that poor dancer, how can anyone say things like 'she was carrying twice as much as the others, couldn't buck, not exactly young, needed a rest after 2miles' & still get on its back? It's way beyond me how someone can be so cruel & yet pretend they care.
		
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I think called being in denial.


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## Copperpot (10 October 2012)

I can't see why they are picking on you Wagtail???!

Personally I think if you expect a horse to be fit and to canter, jump, hunt with you etc, you owe it to the horse to be of a suitable weight and fitness level yourself. 

Having been stuffing my face with junk for a few months I put on a few lbs, my horse is 16.3hh and I was nowhere near being too heavy for him, but I was unfit and rode worse for it, so decided to do something about it. 

Certain medication, makes people put on weight and I feel for these people. You have to choose treating a condition with medication over being your normal weight. 

I don't feel sorry for people who think its fine to be grossly overweight and ride a horse which is obviously struggling. It's wrong plain and simple however you dress it up.


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## eahotson (10 October 2012)

Armas said:



			It does not matter if your large skinny black or white...... It's not acceptable to insult some one because of the way they look.
There are ways and means of putting a point across without being derogatory.
		
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Here here!!


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

I wonder what their views are of this? http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/node/4739


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## flump (10 October 2012)

Omg! She is a pony!!!! That's not on!!!


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## wench (10 October 2012)

There are some people on that American thread that really shouldnt be on a horse!


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## rhino (10 October 2012)

Ah, now saying that there has to come a point where you are too heavy for a particular horse is exactly the same as being racist.




			It is no different to telling a Nigerian she cannot ride because because the colour of her skin will scare the horse! I have seen a very dark skinned person spook a horse so this could be argued as being valid and a matter that needs discussion - but which court do you think that would land in?
		
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Written by the MD of FF, who has just updated that she is not a believer in free speech. I could never have guessed...


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## Puppy (10 October 2012)

it is no different to telling a Nigerian she cannot ride because because the colour of her skin will scare the horse! I have seen a very dark skinned person spook a horse so this could be argued as being valid and a matter that needs discussion - but which court do you think that would land in?
		
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Oh my word...!!


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## Flame_ (10 October 2012)

rhino said:



			Ah, now saying that there has to come a point where you are too heavy for a particular horse is exactly the same as being racist.

Written by the MD of FF, who has just updated that she is not a believer in free speech. I could never have guessed...
		
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LMAO! Classic. Even if that wasn't embarrassingly offensive and pretty twisted, how on earth scaring horses and squashing them amount to the same thing I have no idea.


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## Nightmare before Christmas (10 October 2012)

touchstone said:



			Had to laugh at this 

Click to expand...

*bows* I thought someone might 

In regards to the thread. I agree, overweight people need exercise to lose weight and should be able to do what they enjoy BUT they must be realistic and chose a steed capable of carrying them to their goals.


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## tallyho! (10 October 2012)

Flame_ said:



			OMFG 

It just goes to show that if you look hard enough you can always find someone to support you no matter how mad the thing you are doing is. There's probably a forum out there for like-minded serial killers. 

Click to expand...

Umm... Al Qaeda?


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## Littlelegs (10 October 2012)

But even armas has used a term that could be termed derogatory. 'large or skinny, black or white'. The opposite of large is small, the opposite of skinny is fat. I realise I'm nit picking, but I really fail to see why its ok to use skinny & not fat. Or any of the phrases used by the 'fluffys'. Skinny, not a real woman, un sexy are all ok? Double standards somewhat imo.


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## Flame_ (10 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Umm... Al Qaeda?
		
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Ah, there we are, course.


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## Littlelegs (10 October 2012)

Are they all on something? All I can say to the racism thing is wtf? Are these people allowed out alone?


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## eahotson (10 October 2012)

Where did you find that comment about Nigerians? I can't find it.


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## rhino (10 October 2012)

eahotson said:



			Where did you find that comment about Nigerians? I can't find it.
		
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Facebook - Under the link with the two grey horses.




			What is a woman without curves...let me see...I know the answer to this one...a STICK? Suz x
		
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Can they not see the hypocrisy?


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## Capriole (10 October 2012)

Apparently not rhino.


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## tallyho! (10 October 2012)

Pah hahahahaha!! Rhino! You're the bloody best you are...


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## Mongoose11 (10 October 2012)

Ok, so before I begin let me clarify my position here.....

I am morbidly obese and have been for about 80% of my life. I am currently making a decision about whether to stop riding my mare for now and try to lose some weight or whether to carry on. I am at my happiest at a weight of about 5 stone less than I am now and I feel infinitely happier riding at 20 pounds less than what I weigh now. Despite my weight (which is at the top end for my mare) she is more than happy to carry me out on a very excited and jolly hack, work nicely in the school and two professionals have recently suggested that I am ok on the horse and I should get on and ride for her and for me - I have also done all of the calculations according to her weight, fitness, bone etc and I am within these limitations. Although I am morbidly obese I don't look too big for my mare, people are often suprised to hear how much I weigh and although I am obviously overweight my horse's bum is still wider than mine 

I am incredibly unhappy. At the moment, so unhappy that sometimes I don't want to be alive. I sometimes think to myself that I would rather be without the constant voice of hate that goes on in my head. This is all my choice, I choose to stuff my face, I choose to binge eat in secret, I choose to make myself bigger, more unhealthy, I choose to lie in bed and worry that my heart is going to stop in the night because I am so big (irrational and stupid).

All of this is my choice, I want a different way of life, thinking, feeling but I can't seem to get it right. When I start to lose the weight I feel weird, like my points of reference of moved. I don't know how to be, people are different and it all feels uncomfortable and a bit 'spacey'. Hard to explain. 

What doesn't make it easier is when people say 'eat less move more'. Please, please give me some credit. 

What makes all of this worse is the fact that my husband is a Personal Trainer. He met me somewhere near my heaviest and has known me four stone down from where I am now. I feel sorry for him because I am taking all of my anger out on him and it isn't fair. He has no problem with my weight, he has a massive problem with my self loathing. When we got together he thought I was a girl who was happy with my weight as that is what I presented to be. If he had known then what he knows now I am certain he wouldn;t have been interested.

So, how does this relate to this thread? Does anyone honestly think a single person on that American thread is truly happy with their weight? Wants to be that unhealthy? Want to have to desperatley seek reassurance from a bunch of strangers who tell tham that it is fine to continue to cripple their pony? Many of those people are riding horses that are unsuitable and I can not support that. It is unfair and cruel and it isn't wrong to point that out to them.

This thread was interesting to me because it showed a general concern for the horses and their well-being and some posters made their feelings clear in a concerned and appropriate way. Others have been very mean. On the one hand you are suggesting that it is inhumane to subject a pony to carrying a ridicluous weight but I would say it is also inhumane to band together and say such horrible things about fat people. If you saw me walking down the street I definitely wouldn't be one of those people that get sniggered and stared at but I am the same as those people in that I, for now, am trapped in a place in my mind that refuses to let me get out. I will and I have to promise myself that this will be the last time. If I let myself go here again then I am certain that I will choose some kind of alternative.

I think that it has been fair to bring this forum to other's attention but it has been unfair to work as a giggling pack of grown ups who feel it is ok to continually insult a particular demographic. It has made uncomfortable reading - not because I am a fatty myself but because I am a grown up.

If you put some of these posts in the context of the establishment that I work in you would find yourselves excluded 

I am not symapthising with these riders and I haven't taken any of what has been said personally. I am asking for people not to be so cruel towards others.

*hovers over post button unsure whether this is forum suicide*


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## tallyho! (10 October 2012)

By the way how did she know said dark skinned person was Nigerian?


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## smokey (10 October 2012)

Puppy said:



			Not a good day for that poor horse  

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/dancer-i-did-90688/

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i dont imagine the poor beggar will be doing much dancing! The riders bum is actually overhanging the horses sides. How could she think this was ok?


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## TrasaM (10 October 2012)

There was also a post on there which said..can't lose weight then make the test of the world fat' not an exact quote but basically this is what they were saying. I cant bear to go back and quote exactly as ive seen enough. It's the same old defence presented by overweight people that curves=sexy. Note the number of references to 'real' women on the site.  Is the lady who runs the site overweight? I've not seen a picture of her but did get the idea that she's seen an opening in the Market and is cashing on on it. There's money in that thar fat


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## eahotson (10 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Ok, so before I begin let me clarify my position here.....

I am morbidly obese and have been for about 80% of my life. I am currently making a decision about whether to stop riding my mare for now and try to lose some weight or whether to carry on. I am at my happiest at a weight of about 5 stone less than I am now and I feel infinitely happier riding at 20 pounds less than what I weigh now. Despite my weight (which is at the top end for my mare) she is more than happy to carry me out on a very excited and jolly hack, work nicely in the school and two professionals have recently suggested that I am ok on the horse and I should get on and ride for her and for me - I have also done all of the calculations according to her weight, fitness, bone etc and I am within these limitations. Although I am morbidly obese I don't look too big for my mare, people are often suprised to hear how much I weigh and although I am obviously overweight my horse's bum is still wider than mine 

I am incredibly unhappy. At the moment, so unhappy that sometimes I don't want to be alive. I sometimes think to myself that I would rather be without the constant voice of hate that goes on in my head. This is all my choice, I choose to stuff my face, I choose to binge eat in secret, I choose to make myself bigger, more unhealthy, I choose to lie in bed and worry that my heart is going to stop in the night because I am so big (irrational and stupid).

All of this is my choice, I want a different way of life, thinking, feeling but I can't seem to get it right. When I start to lose the weight I feel weird, like my points of reference of moved. I don't know how to be, people are different and it all feels uncomfortable and a bit 'spacey'. Hard to explain. 

What doesn't make it easier is when people say 'eat less move more'. Please, please give me some credit. 

What makes all of this worse is the fact that my husband is a Personal Trainer. He met me somewhere near my heaviest and has known me four stone down from where I am now. I feel sorry for him because I am taking all of my anger out on him and it isn't fair. He has no problem with my weight, he has a massive problem with my self loathing. When we got together he thought I was a girl who was happy with my weight as that is what I presented to be. If he had known then what he knows now I am certain he wouldn;t have been interested.

So, how does this relate to this thread? Does anyone honestly think a single person on that American thread is truly happy with their weight? Wants to be that unhealthy? Want to have to desperatley seek reassurance from a bunch of strangers who tell tham that it is fine to continue to cripple their pony? Many of those people are riding horses that are unsuitable and I can not support that. It is unfair and cruel and it isn't wrong to point that out to them.

This thread was interesting to me because it showed a general concern for the horses and their well-being and some posters made their feelings clear in a concerned and appropriate way. Others have been very mean. On the one hand you are suggesting that it is inhumane to subject a pony to carrying a ridicluous weight but I would say it is also inhumane to band together and say such horrible things about fat people. If you saw me walking down the street I definitely wouldn't be one of those people that get sniggered and stared at but I am the same as those people in that I, for now, am trapped in a place in my mind that refuses to let me get out. I will and I have to promise myself that this will be the last time. If I let myself go here again then I am certain that I will choose some kind of alternative.

I think that it has been fair to bring this forum to other's attention but it has been unfair to work as a giggling pack of grown ups who feel it is ok to continually insult a particular demographic. It has made uncomfortable reading - not because I am a fatty myself but because I am a grown up.

If you put some of these posts in the context of the establishment that I work in you would find yourselves excluded 

I am not symapthising with these riders and I haven't taken any of what has been said personally. I am asking for people not to be so cruel towards others.

*hovers over post button unsure whether this is forum suicide*
		
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Thank you for posting that.It was very brave.I also think that there are people posting on here that are doing it to be mean and spiteful rather than that they care for any horses welfare.I have no real idea of exactly how much it is reasonable to ask any horse to carry.Being fat myself I do think carefully before I ride any horse.In fact I went to try what was described to me as a 14 hand cob at a dealers.I got there and it was a slightly cobby PONY.I refused to try it and told the dealer why.She was a woman and about 2 stone heavier than me.She said I ride it regularly!!! I do hope not.


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## Clava (10 October 2012)

smokey said:



			i dont imagine the poor beggar will be doing much dancing! The riders bum is actually overhanging the horses sides. How could she think this was ok?

Click to expand...

That thread is on the main forum isn't it? but nothing negative mentioned. This is what I find difficult to understand.


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## Flame_ (10 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			*hovers over post button unsure whether this is forum suicide*
		
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Don't do it! I totally see where you are coming from, but remember people are ripping into people who deserve it, all be it, in places hurtful. Its like that awful woman who wrote books about understanding arabs whilst neglecting hers  people said mean things about her appearance on the thread on here which they'd never say about someone nice. Please see it as what it is, giving people stick who deserve it, if that doesn't include you, then it shouldn't hurt you, IYSWIM.

Please don't be sad, I hope you find a solution that works for you.


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## kerilli (10 October 2012)

Billie1007, that isn't forum suicide, and thank you for being so brave.
I hope I speak for a lot of us when I say that I don't care how big someone is as long as they aren't intending to get on a horse, especially one that is very unsuitable for carrying a heavy rider. Weight is an intensely personal affair of course, and a lot of us have issues about food and struggle to be the size/weight we want to be, with varying success. 
The infuriating attitudes on that forum though really do light the blue touchpaper for true horse lovers (as I think we all are, on this thread). I care more about the horses, who have no choice, and might well be harmed by what is happening, than the people, who do have a choice, and imho who should know better, and should not be bolstered in their denial by likeminded delusionists. Maybe that makes me a terrible person though, caring more about the horses than the people.
It sounds as if you need a support group who will help you with the way you feel when you try to lose weight etc. I hope you find something that works for you.


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## Littlelegs (10 October 2012)

Billy, I genuinely apologise if you've found anything I've said offensive. I can assure you its not the way I think about people overweight in general, it was inspired by my sense of outrage at how cruel some of them are. I genuinely do feel sorry for anyone who is unhappy with their size, but I cannot muster sympathy for those to whom I referred. If they had been thin adults on minis, I would have used words & phrases to describe them that could easily be used as insults about me as a thin adult. Ones such as those being used on the ff page currently. So really nothing to do with them being fat or thin, just their cruel actions. But again billy, I apologise if I have offended you.


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## suestowford (10 October 2012)

ChristmasSparkles said:



			Sigh. I suppose I should give up on trying to get an educated answer as to how 22" saddles are fitted, and relations to conformation, ie, back length v weight bearing capacity then....

I'd have thought with how meticulously this thread is being watched, someone could have enlightened more on the product as to how it was designed. Whether by a follow article, or whatever means.


*twaddles out*
		
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Too busy taking offence, and flouncing off in a huff.


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## smokey (10 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Billy, I genuinely apologise if you've found anything I've said offensive. I can assure you its not the way I think about people overweight in general, it was inspired by my sense of outrage at how cruel some of them are. I genuinely do feel sorry for anyone who is unhappy with their size, but I cannot muster sympathy for those to whom I referred. If they had been thin adults on minis, I would have used words & phrases to describe them that could easily be used as insults about me as a thin adult. Ones such as those being used on the ff page currently. So really nothing to do with them being fat or thin, just their cruel actions. But again billy, I apologise if I have offended you.
		
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very well put Littlelegs, can I add my own apology to Billy please. billy, unlike you, the people on that forum do not appear to care if they are way too large for their ponies, you have stated that you are aware that you are a larger girl, and you have checked your horses ability to carry you. that is responsible ownership. I am sorry that you took offence at some of the comments made, it wasnt my intention.


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## YorksG (10 October 2012)

I do think that some of the morbidly obese riders on the american site find it as difficult to see themselves clearly as the very thin people with annorexia nervosa do. However that is no excuse for the people around them to collude with the delusion. If I have a patient who is severly underweight,  I tell them so, likewise if I see a very fat patient, then I talk about their weight. Overeating can be as much an illness as annorexia, but these are issues that can be overcome with the correct help,PROVIDED the person with the problem is willing to do something about it, if they aren't then nothing will change. All the help in the world will do nothing if the person in need of help waits for someone to 'cure' them, or if they allow themselves to be convinced that there isn't a problem.


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## touchstone (10 October 2012)

Billie 1007, I agree with the others, the posts weren't directed at riders and owners like yourself who ride suitable horses and know when they have reached the limit of their horses ability, but towards those who will make any excuse under the sun to ride a horse that really isn't up to it.  If you are well within your horses limits get out there and ride, it will do you both good. 

I am sorry that you struggle with your weight, but it sounds to me as if your issues are more emotional and concern your own self esteem rather than weight, you say your husband wouldn't have been interested if he knew how you really felt, but the fact is that he *is* still with you and so there must be something wonderful about you.

I do hope that you can learn to love yourself and lose the self loathing, regardless of what size you are your body is still an amazing machine that we should appreciate.


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## Goldenstar (10 October 2012)

Billie1007 you are brave to post that .have you considered cognative behavioural therapy which can be a huge help with issues like yours .
these issues are complicated CBT has a proven track record of helping if you ask your GP they will point you inthe right direction .


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## Mongoose11 (10 October 2012)

Thanks for the support guys, I should have explained better that I wasn't offended by the people taking the mickey out of fat people, nobody could say anything that would make my situation any worse but I was just generally offended by the unkindness of it all.

I posted about the thinking behind my weight to try and encourage people to consider what is really behind those pictures. I see people who are suffering just as much as any of those horses. I understand about choice and the animal not having one and that is exactly what makes it wrong that some of them get on their horse. I totally get that. Some of those are people who are desperately clinging on to some sense of normality - a sign that they are still part of and can take part in life, perhaps they are kidding themselves that if they aren't too fat for their horse then they aren't too fat at all.

I am at a stage where I don't want to communicate with a single person in real life and yet I am surrouded by people all day every day. I want time to stop and the world to go away. My point is - you just need to think of the bigger picture before you say unkind things (no pun intended). Say what you mean about the horses suffering but there is no need to couch it in insult and mean spirit.


xx


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## Goldenstar (10 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Thanks for the support guys, I should have explained better that I wasn't offended by the people taking the mickey out of fat people, nobody could say anything that would make my situation any worse but I was just generally offended by the unkindness of it all.

I posted about the thinking behind my weight to try and encourage people to consider what is really behind those pictures. I see people who are suffering just as much as any of those horses. I understand about choice and the animal not having one and that is exactly what makes it wrong that some of them get on their horse. I totally get that. Some of those are people who are desperately clinging on to some sense of normality - a sign that they are still part of and can take part in life, perhaps they are kidding themselves that if they aren't too fat for their horse then they aren't too fat at all.

I am at a stage where I don't want to communicate with a single person in real life and yet I am surrouded by people all day every day. I want time to stop and the world to go away. My point is - you just need to think of the bigger picture before you say unkind things (no pun intended). Say what you mean about the horses suffering but there is no need to couch it in insult and mean spirit.


xx
		
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Billie1007  each side of this debate has said things about the other .
People have the right to commucate in any way they chose and yes you may find that upsetting but your issue is you you know that you have said so .
So seek help for yourself the views of strangers on the Internet canot harm you please seek help from your GP to begin with.
Just do it , go and make an appointment, life does not have to be this way.


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

Billy007, you are not the same as those people who have obviously not bothered to check whether their horse is capable of carrying them. Those people who think that if the horse doesn't brace or stagger, then it is okay, who take 14hh ponies on trail rides and over obstacles. I have absolutely no problem with overweight people who are adequately horsed. I posted that I fully understand having food cravings so strong that they are impossible to resist. I posted about this to illustrate that I am not some skinny who has no idea what they are talking about. But I was called a plebeian, and inhuman!

You do sound very depressed to me. I found the best way to stay off the chocolate and cakes was just to not buy them. I am sitting here craving them right now. The cravings do not go away. But I have a choice of being a little bit heavier but much happier, or be skinny and suffer nausea. Thankfully I have managed to stabilize my weight at ten stone despite my medication induced intense sugar and carb cravings. It does sound as though you are in dire need of some help. I really do hope that you find some peace within yourself.


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## Littlelegs (10 October 2012)

I do see what you're saying billy, & I'm sure you may well be on the right track in that some are clinging desperately to a sense of normality in that if they can still ride, its not so bad. But I still find it unforgivable. I'm not saying I have battled obesity, but there's been times in my life where its been tough for other reasons. And during those rough times, I have had to sometimes also make a decision about an animal, which came down to their welfare versus my need. And everytime there was never any question that the animals welfare came above my mental needs. So no matter what is behind the pictures, its no excuse imo.


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## Mongoose11 (10 October 2012)

100% agree LittleLegs


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## lula (10 October 2012)

kerilli said:



			The infuriating attitudes on that forum though really do light the blue touchpaper for true horse lovers (as I think we all are, on this thread). I care more about the horses, who have no choice, and might well be harmed by what is happening, than the people, who do have a choice, and imho who should know better, and should not be bolstered in their denial by likeminded delusionists. Maybe that makes me a terrible person though, caring more about the horses than the people.
		
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totally agree with this.

the MD of ff is almost coming off like some zealous cult leader of the 'fluffies'

AMEN sista!


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## HashRouge (10 October 2012)

rhino said:



			Ah, now saying that there has to come a point where you are too heavy for a particular horse is exactly the same as being racist.



Written by the MD of FF, who has just updated that she is not a believer in free speech. I could never have guessed...
		
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Oh dear lord 

I do find this sort of thread difficult to comment on, as I genuinely don't want to cause offence. Carrying a severely overweight rider is going to be detrimental to the health of the horse, no matter how strong he is (or appears to be!). I'm not saying that you have to be a skinny minnie to ride - I know quite a few riders who are overweight, but who are very well-mounted on horses who carry them easily. But there comes a point where a person is simply too heavy to ride, no matter how large or strong the horse. This isn't designed to be rude or offensive - it is said with the welfare of the horse in mind. But also, a person who is too heavy to ride simply _isn't_ healthy. It's all very well saying "big is beautiful" and "real women have curves", but this is only true up to a point. Because obese _isn't_ beautiful, it isn't good or healthy, and anyone who thinks it is has a seriously skewed perception of what people ought to look like! And once again, I'm not saying this to insult "larger" women.There is a huge difference between big and curvy and morbidly obese, in my opinion. And I don't think it should be okay to be rude to people or make them feel bad about themselves because they are overweight, but I don't see the point in lying to people making them think it is fine to be seriously overweight, because it's not, even if they don't ride. It works both ways - anorexia is not okay either! 
Anyway, that's how I see it, although as I'm skinny and clearly not a real woman, I don't know if my opinion counts


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## Polotash (10 October 2012)

HashRouge said:



			Oh dear lord 

I do find this sort of thread difficult to comment on, as I genuinely don't want to cause offence. Carrying a severely overweight rider is going to be detrimental to the health of the horse, no matter how strong he is (or appears to be!). I'm not saying that you have to be a skinny minnie to ride - I know quite a few riders who are overweight, but who are very well-mounted on horses who carry them easily. But there comes a point where a person is simply too heavy to ride, no matter how large or strong the horse. This isn't designed to be rude or offensive - it is said with the welfare of the horse in mind. But also, a person who is too heavy to ride simply _isn't_ healthy. It's all very well saying "big is beautiful" and "real women have curves", but this is only true up to a point. Because obese _isn't_ beautiful, it isn't good or healthy, and anyone who thinks it is has a seriously skewed perception of what people ought to look like! And once again, I'm not saying this to insult "larger" women.There is a huge difference between big and curvy and morbidly obese, in my opinion. And I don't think it should be okay to be rude to people or make them feel bad about themselves because they are overweight, but I don't see the point in lying to people making them think it is fine to be seriously overweight, because it's not, even if they don't ride. It works both ways - anorexia is not okay either! 
Anyway, that's how I see it, although as I'm skinny and clearly not a real woman, I don't know if my opinion counts 

Click to expand...

Totally agree.

I also have larger friends (one livery is 16+ stone) who are perfectly well mounted. However, there comes a point when there simply isn't a horse strong enough for you. Some of the ladies on the American thread have reached that point. End of!


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## imr (10 October 2012)

I completely agree with Polotash and Hashrouge.

I am not a small, skinny person. I have struggled with my weight forever, and from a riding perspective this is compounded by the fact that I am naturally heavy as am reasonably tall and I have heavy bones and muscle and so whilst I look the couple of stone overweight I am, that really does make me pretty heavy. That isn't an excuse - I know where I need to aim for as I have been to the doctor/nutritionist to help me. I have big, well made horses and I'm careful with my saddle and tbh keeping weight down for riding is the big incentive I have to reduce rather than increase in size, as I do not want to have to buy FF products or think that I must stop riding. Currently having put some on again (work) I am dieting (again) and as usual its a slow and painful process but I am determined to get back to a size 16 from an 18. This may seem huge but even if you sucked all the fat out of my body (I wish) I wouldnt be less than a 14.

FWIW there is at least as much difference between a 16 and a 24 as there is between an 8 and a 16, but once you hit 16 its like you suddenly might as well be a 24. I'm sure most size 8s would be horrified to be bracketed with the size 16s, so how do you think people my size feel about being bracketed with the 24s?! And it goes the other way too to help support the attitude that its ok to be huge and seriously overweight - which it isn't, for all sorts of reasons including health. 

I really struggle with my weight, its doubly hard when your self esteem is low as then you have no motivation, I really feel for billie here as i know what she means. If you are lucky enough to be naturally slim, then it is very difficult to comprehend this cycle. But, it does noone in my position any favours to say to us that its fine to continually expand, or to suggest that thin people are not "real" or attractive. For starters, that is patently untrue so that if you buy into it you are just kidding yourself.


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## Wagtail (10 October 2012)

My mouth was 'agog' when I read the comment regarding the Nigerian and the 'dark skinned person'! I found it very offensive and I'm not even black. Now she is laying into one of the people commenting and trying to put across a balanced view, and finishes with a highly sarcastic comment 'thanks for your admiration, that was big of you.' Unbelievable and a good way to alienate a large group of customers.


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## Cop-Pop (10 October 2012)

I wasn't really aware of the company until I saw this thread so spent some time looking at their site.  Tbh the MD's attitude has put me straight off them and some of their pictures are a bit   As I've said before - I need to lose quite a bit of weight (abt 2 stone) but I make sure I never get above my horse's maximum weight.  Of course if I had any sense I'd get too heavy and squish her into the ground so she stopped misbehaving


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## piebaldsparkle (10 October 2012)

She certainly knows how to win friends and influence people..............NOT!

The woman comes across and a racist bigot, (am still trying to pick my jaw off the floor, after reading the above comment).

Potentially I could buy from FF (size 16 on a bad day), but there is noway I would EVER buy from them or a FF branded item.  So well done in losing a potential customer.

On the upside thanks FF, reading your page and looking at the pics has made me decide to make more of an effort to lose my excess weight as although I have a mount more than capable of carrying me, I have seen the potential future (though I would stop riding), if I allow myself to continue down this slippery slop.  So roll on Christmas as my goal is to be out of FF clothing size by then.


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## FionaM12 (10 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			*hovers over post button unsure whether this is forum suicide*
		
Click to expand...

On the contrary, it's a brave, intelligent and very sensible post IMO.

I agree that it's possible to comment on the cruelty of expecting a horse to carry a rider far too heavy for it, but not go on to enjoy "laughing at the silly fat people".

I have struggled with weight and eating issues all my adult life, partly due to having to endure a lot of steroid treatment (it might save my life, but it messes my body up ) and I identify so much with everything you say Billie. Fortunately for me, my weight hasn't been too high for some years, but there but for the grace and all that.

Some of those riders on that thread are seriously cruel for continuing to ride their often very small horses. However, they are women with terrible problems themselves, and I too am uncomfortable with the posts here which poke fun at them.


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## DragonSlayer (10 October 2012)

My word, we here on HHO certainly seem to wind up well-known people and brandnames, don't we?? Wasn't too long ago since a certain professional was on here throwing her toys out, now we have a Big Noise from FF having a rage? Goodness....

Tell you what FF, I'm certainly no model, but I take offence then at your comment on your FB page saying '....REAL women in size 16-24'......

Are you implying then that those women who wear smaller sizes are not women? Talk about contradiction, your having a go at people who genuinely worry about a horse carrying weight and calling them all the names under the sun, yet you blantanly flaunt the fact you are calling smaller sized women not real...?

Obese is not funny, it's not healthy. As for the horse...it's not fair. Now, no-one go twisting my words here people, those who are fully aware of their horses capabilities and are doing what's right FOR THEMSELVES as well as their horses are to be applauded, those who don't give a toss....well, 'nuff said.


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## Goldenstar (10 October 2012)

Getting back to the saddle thing my horses have 17.5 inch saddles my OH ( just over thirteen stone )has a 16.2 ID and he has a 18 inch saddle one width fitting wider than my identical saddle.
It feels enormous to me I am amazed each time I get on it how big the seat feels even though it's only half an inch bigger.
A 22 inch saddle would be huge and I just can't imagine what type of horse could carry one.


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## FfionWinnie (10 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Billy, I genuinely apologise if you've found anything I've said offensive. I can assure you its not the way I think about people overweight in general, it was inspired by my sense of outrage at how cruel some of them are. I genuinely do feel sorry for anyone who is unhappy with their size, but I cannot muster sympathy for those to whom I referred. If they had been thin adults on minis, I would have used words & phrases to describe them that could easily be used as insults about me as a thin adult. Ones such as those being used on the ff page currently. So really nothing to do with them being fat or thin, just their cruel actions. But again billy, I apologise if I have offended you.
		
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Yes I am sorry too Billie. The thing is you have done the calculations and your mare is the right type for you. That to me is the difference in this situation. 

I do understand being obese too because I have lost 4st in the last year. I didn't actually look obese before I lost it and people would be surprised if they had known how heavy I was. My biggest fear is putting it back on because I have no will power and I know I have a bad relationship with food (comfort/reward etc). 

I hope you find happiness, I really do.


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## lula (10 October 2012)

frankly as a person who has suffered all her life with a lack of fluffiness (for a better word!) i find it  insulting and hypocritical of someone who rants about bullying - to be called 'a stick' by the MD of Fuller Fillies on her facebook page.

i have struggled all my life to gain a healthy weight after suffering from anorexia and other eating disorders from my teens

pot, kettle, much?


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## lula (10 October 2012)

DragonSlayer said:



			Tell you what FF, I'm certainly no model, but I take offence then at your comment on your FB page saying '....REAL women in size 16-24'......

Are you implying then that those women who wear smaller sizes are not women? Talk about contradiction, your having a go at people who genuinely worry about a horse carrying weight and calling them all the names under the sun, yet you blantanly flaunt the fact you are calling smaller sized women not real...?
		
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well put dragonslayer

i suppose FF doesnt give a **** about skinny people's feelings though, after all she's not trying to flog us her eye bleedling patterned zebra print jods


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## Shysmum (10 October 2012)

What a thread !  I saw the pictures posted when it started, and was just horrified by them - the fact that the riders were WAY too heavy for the horse they were riding, and were more than likely causing the horse suffering - either now, or for the future. 

I saw an article about a US "outsize beauty pageant" last week, and this just looked like terribly sad people trying to justify their weight, in a "we're in it together, so we must be ok" kind of situation. 

The truth is that over-eating to that extent IS a serious eating disorder, and eating disorders are routed in self-esteem issues, fear, self loathing,and they are life - crippling. That  is why this is such a difficult subject to discuss I guess. No-one that size can honestly be happy can they ? Food becomes a substitute for emotion ? 

Then, you move on the fact that they are riding unsuitable horses - well if I saw some of those situations, I would be ringing the RSPCA straight away. And if I were to go onto that forum, I would be telling them that too.


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## Apercrumbie (10 October 2012)

Well going back to the original issue:

I will be very interested to see whether a 22" saddle can be correctly fitted to a horse.  If it can be done correctly then fair enough.  Personally I think that it is highly unlikely but I am willing to be proven wrong.

I am really shocked by the MD of Fuller Fillies comments on the facebook post, she is so dismissive and rude to some of the commenters on there, even ones who are standing up for those fuller fillies in the right.  I will now be avoiding her company as while I agree that some comments on this thread have been awful, I don't believe she should stoop to the level she has.


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## Sparkles (10 October 2012)

Apercrumbie said:



			Well going back to the original issue:

I will be very interested to see whether a 22" saddle can be correctly fitted to a horse.  If it can be done correctly then fair enough.  Personally I think that it is highly unlikely but I am willing to be proven wrong.
		
Click to expand...


I posted ^ this on the very first page. And again. And then again as soon as FF was quoted as I thought I'd have someone who could help answer it.

I couldn't give a flying frig about what weight people are. I just wanted, what seems to be most peoples, genuine concern/curiosity over HOW the saddles are designed to fit the horse and conformation v weight carrying ability, should a 22" saddle fit a horse back length.

Surely. If you're going to advertise your product, EXPLAIN how the design/use comes about. No different to someone asking how a WOW saddle is designed, or a Reactor Panel Saddle, or a Barefoot Saddle, etc. Is there a TYPE of horse it is made for specifically? 

I cannot see why a saddle would be designed that has no practical use in the real world, so there MUST obviously be a way the saddle is deigned to be of beneficial, fitted use. How the design works, surely, should not be that con traversal to answer? I just want to know how it is made to fit the horse comfortably!


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## Shooting Star (10 October 2012)

I only hope that if they do create a 22" seat and there is a horse that could genuinely take it that their seat sizes do not follow their clothing sizes, if you follow their measurement charts the sizes in inches are all a dress size or more bigger than the standard UK measurements ... and they have 6" of stretch built in too?! 

http://www.fuller-fillies.co.uk/en/content/9-sizing-fit-information


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## rhino (10 October 2012)

Polly Peewee said:



			I only hope that if they do create a 22" seat and there is a horse that could genuinely take it that their seat sizes do not follow their clothing sizes, if you follow their measurement charts the sizes in inches are all a dress size or more bigger than the standard UK measurements ... and they have 6" of stretch built in too?! 

http://www.fuller-fillies.co.uk/en/content/9-sizing-fit-information

Click to expand...

I haven't looked at the link but vanity sizing does my head in  Spent a whole day shopping (and I really, *really* hate shopping) for decent work clothes, and managed to buy a total of one dress (and I really, *really* hate dresses), which was in a petites size 6. I'm neither petite (i.e. under 5'3") or a size 6


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## FfionWinnie (10 October 2012)

rhino said:



			I haven't looked at the link but vanity sizing does my head in  Spent a whole day shopping (and I really, *really* hate shopping) for decent work clothes, and managed to buy a total of one dress (and I really, *really* hate dresses), which was in a petites size 6. I'm neither petite (i.e. under 5'3") or a size 6 

Click to expand...

Wonders if I buy from FF if I can be a petite size 6 too.....rushes to look!


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## Copperpot (10 October 2012)

Ah but if your a size 6 your not a real woman!! You are merely a stick


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## rhino (10 October 2012)

Copperpot said:



			Ah but if your a size 6 your not a real woman!! You are merely a stick 

Click to expand...

Quite. An unsexy, unreal, stick!

Actually, that sounds quite accurate


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## FfionWinnie (10 October 2012)

Copperpot said:



			Ah but if your a size 6 your not a real woman!! You are merely a stick 

Click to expand...

I wanna be a stick even if it's only in my head!!!

(At the hosp today with my daughter I said she has always been tall and naturally slim and the nurse said well she is just taking after her Mum. I could have snogged the woman, little does she know how unnatural, recent and hard gotten my "natural slimness" is!)


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## Shooting Star (10 October 2012)

Copperpot said:



			Ah but if your a size 6 your not a real woman!! You are merely a stick 

Click to expand...

ah, now if we use the size chart many more can be sticks too - there is a plus side to following this thread


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## Sparkles (10 October 2012)

Out of interest. And I'm not a saddle fitter so not qualified to speak. I did stick a measure on my lot earlier for interests sake as it did get me thinking.

My long backed, conformationally incorrect TB [16.3hh if that matters],from his wither to his very last rib, and it came to 18 3/4". To the back of his loins, it came to just over 19 1/2". [Ridden normally in 17.5", but can fit an 18", but too big for me]

My Welsh D mare, 14.2hhish and again slightly long backed though a mare, measured wither to last rib 17 1/4".  To back of loins, she's just over 17 3/4". [Ridden normally in a 17", more for my benefit though does fit her obviously, but she could easily get away with a 16 1/2".]

My youngster, traditional cob, a grand total of about 13 1/2" currently wither to loin. He's 2 1/2 so moot point and no relevance.

Hairy [15hh as heavy as you can get traditional adult cob], wither to last rib is 17 1/4. To loins, just under 18".

Again, I'm not a saddler so no qualified relevance, but just personal findings. Hence my curiousness to find out how the saddles are fitted.


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## sophiebailey (10 October 2012)

I think what is worrying is the current trend in 'embracing' your curves etc etc which is all fine and well if you're a healthy weight for your size but carrying a few extra pounds. But when it comes to people who are 'overweight' and 'obese', why are companies creating products that seem to give the impression that not only is it ok to be overweight, but that its normal? 

Why isn't obesity recognised as a serious eating disorder, as anorexia is? The UK"s no 1 killer is heart disease. The largest contributory factor to heart disease is fat! 

But with equestrianism, its not just OUR health that's at risk if we're overweight, its the health of our animals. People say horses were 'bred' to carry weight etc, and they may well have been 100 years + ago, but these traits are no longer selected in breeding, or have been 'bred out' in favour of flashier horses capable of speed and agility, not weight bearing ability. 

So I guess what I'm saying is that its worrying that a 22 saddle is being marketed for those who cannot fit into an 18. I just cannot see how conformationally any horse can cope with this size of saddle, especially if the bum sitting in it fills the entire saddle and puts pressure at the back near the kidneys, or the rider is not fit/balanced (likely) and doesn't seat on their seatbones.

I don't think its a good idea


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## Copperpot (10 October 2012)

Yes I shall embrace my new stick like status. Although I like to think of myself as more of a small branch


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## Littlelegs (10 October 2012)

At the risk of it all kicking off again, I rather think anyone who condones the riders backside overhanging the saddle & resting on the loins isn't going to be overly fussed about resting the saddle on them. 
  Back to current topic- re clothes sizing, I have a size 4 dress that is actually far roomier than any size 8, & a size 10 skirt that is smaller than a normal 8.


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## FfionWinnie (10 October 2012)

Polly Peewee said:



			ah, now if we use the size chart many more can be sticks too - there is a plus side to following this thread 

Click to expand...

There's a joke in there somewhere


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## sophiebailey (10 October 2012)

I also hate vanity sizing, makes clothes shopping so hard when you have to try everything on in 3 sizes and the changing rooms only let you take 4 things in! Grrr xx


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## FfionWinnie (10 October 2012)

Copperpot said:



			Yes I shall embrace my new stick like status. Although I like to think of myself as more of a small branch 

Click to expand...

My good friend asked her (now ex) husband in her legs looked like tree trunks in these trousers following birth of baby. He said no dear, they always looked like tree trunks. Ouch.


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## Copperpot (10 October 2012)

I can see why he is her ex


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## Shooting Star (10 October 2012)

copperpot - since you've already taken branch status I'm going to go for trunk of a sturdy sappling  ( a good British variety that won't blow down in a storm) )


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## Copperpot (10 October 2012)

My unhorsey Nan asked me last year if I'd had a nice ride that morning. Said not really as my horse was bucking. She said perhaps its cos your too heavy for him now! He is 16.3hh and I'm 5ft 3" and had put on a bit of weight admittedly but was still under 9 stone! Said no Nan I don't think it's that lol.


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## Sparkles (10 October 2012)

I don't do 'sizings' as measurements between brands/garments/shops are so few and far between what the 'standard' average general UK size was/is. Buy for what fits 

Example A. I'm generally a happy size 10 in bottoms, 12 on tops [depending on shop/ etc]. However. Bought a lovely jumper the other day, ignoring the size label on it as looking at it knew it would fit. Labelled a size 8.....a size 8 which fits a pair of E's in it with no struggle.....I'll be damned!!!! 

[I'm not getting into the weight debate on here, as I couldn't give a frig. Been struggling with weight after a rather bad year and taken me over 2 years to be almost 'content' again. I gave up riding my 14.2hh pony mentioned previous, as I felt too heavy. I hated myself when I'd put on weight, as the only cause there was me, it's still probably my worst hang up now tbh, years on. Pony is now back, and happy to say riding her again  ]


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## Copperpot (10 October 2012)

Pmsl Polly  a small branch don't forget. I'm not an oak tree branch or anything


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## Shooting Star (11 October 2012)

Copperpot said:



			Pmsl Polly  a small branch don't forget. I'm not an oak tree branch or anything 

Click to expand...

... damn, then I'm still twice as large , ah well the tiniest of acorns into the greatest of oaks does grow!! (And I always told my mum that wasn't true, turns out mums are always right - I so wanted an exception for my figure rolleyes


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## Chavhorse (11 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Good way to lose all of us ignorant, full of our own importance potential customers with so much time on our hands for internet shopping, in one fell swoop. Class 

Click to expand...

Having had the misfortune to speak to Ms Wild on the telephone before (I did not realise it was the MD of the company until I was so incensed by the manner I was being spoken to in I demamded to speak to a manager to be told I am the MD!)  Frankly I am not suprised.

I have flatly refused to buy anything from them since and if asked my opinion of Fuller Filles I normally suggest a shop where barge poles can be bought.  

Badly made tat overpriced as alledgedly it has been "designed" for the larger rider.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

ChristmasSparkles said:



			Out of interest. And I'm not a saddle fitter so not qualified to speak. I did stick a measure on my lot earlier for interests sake as it did get me thinking.

My long backed, conformationally incorrect TB [16.3hh if that matters],from his wither to his very last rib, and it came to 18 3/4". To the back of his loins, it came to just over 19 1/2". [Ridden normally in 17.5", but can fit an 18", but too big for me]

My Welsh D mare, 14.2hhish and again slightly long backed though a mare, measured wither to last rib 17 1/4".  To back of loins, she's just over 17 3/4". [Ridden normally in a 17", more for my benefit though does fit her obviously, but she could easily get away with a 16 1/2".]

My youngster, traditional cob, a grand total of about 13 1/2" currently wither to loin. He's 2 1/2 so moot point and no relevance.

Hairy [15hh as heavy as you can get traditional adult cob], wither to last rib is 17 1/4. To loins, just under 18".

Again, I'm not a saddler so no qualified relevance, but just personal findings. Hence my curiousness to find out how the saddles are fitted.
		
Click to expand...

Well, since everyone else is still justifying being sticky or fluffy, I asked some people how theoretically this could work.

I did actually elude to an answer earlier on in this thread but it was lost... oh well.

IF they make it, and that is in capitals because the MD of FF would have to find a saddler to make it first... (somewhere in Walsall probably)... they would have to make it so it had shorter panels but longer cantle/twist/pommel. To avoid putting too much pressure on the weight bearing area of the back, the max this could be is 18". So really only your TB could do it. 

The typical "weight carrier" Welsh D only has a 17" space for the panels to sit properly so the seat of the saddle would have to be made especially long at the pommel and the cantle. You can't just go extra long at the cantle or that would move you too far back and put pressure on the horses loins and you would not be in the centre of balance. It's an extra 5" to make up. Even though the panels fit the horse, the seat area extends 2.5" front and back. 

You can see that the weight 250 - 300lbs maybe, is distributed over quite a small area.

If I were a saddle-maker, I would refuse to make this saddle. The extra work needed and it still wouldn't be very stable or safe.


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## FfionWinnie (11 October 2012)

Sounds like an utter charmer Chavhorse!!


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## Wagtail (11 October 2012)

Chavhorse said:



			Having had the misfortune to speak to Ms Wild on the telephone before (I did not realise it was the MD of the company until I was so incensed by the manner I was being spoken to in I demamded to speak to a manager to be told I am the MD!)  Frankly I am not suprised.

I have flatly refused to buy anything from them since and if asked my opinion of Fuller Filles I normally suggest a shop where barge poles can be bought.  

Badly made tat overpriced as alledgedly it has been "designed" for the larger rider.
		
Click to expand...

Well the more I hear about this woman, the 'nicer' she seems.


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## Sparkles (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Well, since everyone else is still justifying being sticky or fluffy, I asked some people how theoretically this could work.

I did actually elude to an answer earlier on in this thread but it was lost... oh well.

IF they make it, and that is in capitals because the MD of FF would have to find a saddler to make it first... (somewhere in Walsall probably)... they would have to make it so it had shorter panels but longer cantle/twist/pommel. To avoid putting too much pressure on the weight bearing area of the back, the max this could be is 18". So really only your TB could do it. 

The typical "weight carrier" Welsh D only has a 17" space for the panels to sit properly so the seat of the saddle would have to be made especially long at the pommel and the cantle. You can't just go extra long at the cantle or that would move you too far back and put pressure on the horses loins and you would not be in the centre of balance. It's an extra 5" to make up. Even though the panels fit the horse, the seat area extends 2.5" front and back. 

You can see that the weight 250 - 300lbs maybe, is distributed over quite a small area.

If I were a saddle-maker, I would refuse to make this saddle. The extra work needed and it still wouldn't be very stable or safe.
		
Click to expand...


Thankyou!!! 

Sorry if I missed this earlier on on a page...I honestly didn't come across it, must have missed that page out


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## ClobellsandBaubles (11 October 2012)

dominobrown said:



			Having just read the american thread, fuller fillies page etc, I have a conclusion to this thread:
1) Some people are naturally thin, others are not. This through no fault of their own. I personally am not model thin and never will be.
2) Just because you are bigger doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to ride a horse- however you must take into consideration- size and type of horse and the horses comfort and welfare.
3) Riding is a sport and therefore you should be *scratch that* MUST be relatively fit to ride for your own safety!
4) Being morbidly obese is not something to be proud of, not all of us are stick thin, but that doesn't mean you should eat a whole cake, sit on the sofa doing nothing and then complain about being called fat. In an ideal world everyone should be fit and healthy, which is different sizes/weights to different people, however by being morbidly obese you are strain to the NHS and everyone around, being that big is not clever, and the person you are hurting the most is yourself. Strive to be fit and healthy, not thin.


p.s "you" refers to no person in particular, but is just used in general. 

Click to expand...

This ^^ 
I really struggle with the global issue of obesity. On the one hand we have the models and the celebs bemoaning how they have to be a size zero etc. which raises huge self esteem, body image and eating disorder issues out there (particularly worrying in young children)  and on the there we have a huge obesity (I am talking obese and morbidly obese NOT overweight) epidemic that is not healthy for anyone. 

I used to think it was down to just over eating/ under exercising but having read some thought provoking books and had some interesting discussions recently it's amazing everyone isn't obese by now! Even compared to 30 years ago the difference in size  of people is staggering.

However I don't think that everyone has the right to get on what ever horse they like men or women (seen a lot of underhorsed men recently). 

I think our perspective of what is or should be normal has been warped and is more warped over the pond. For example on the US  forum where some girls are told they are not plus size enough to post (usually the ones I thought has  well matched happy-looking horses and a nice looking partnership) or the European idea of plus size is wrong. 

What I also found worrying was the age, size and poor conformation of horses it is deemed acceptable to ride.


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## Fellewell (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Well, since everyone else is still justifying being sticky or fluffy, I asked some people how theoretically this could work.

I did actually elude to an answer earlier on in this thread but it was lost... oh well.

IF they make it, and that is in capitals because the MD of FF would have to find a saddler to make it first... (somewhere in Walsall probably)... they would have to make it so it had shorter panels but longer cantle/twist/pommel. To avoid putting too much pressure on the weight bearing area of the back, the max this could be is 18". So really only your TB could do it. 

The typical "weight carrier" Welsh D only has a 17" space for the panels to sit properly so the seat of the saddle would have to be made especially long at the pommel and the cantle. You can't just go extra long at the cantle or that would move you too far back and put pressure on the horses loins and you would not be in the centre of balance. It's an extra 5" to make up. Even though the panels fit the horse, the seat area extends 2.5" front and back. 

You can see that the weight 250 - 300lbs maybe, is distributed over quite a small area.

If I were a saddle-maker, I would refuse to make this saddle. The extra work needed and it still wouldn't be very stable or safe.
		
Click to expand...

Well said. 

I think you've 'owned the tone' of this thread.

Must admit when I saw the thread title I did think tapeworms (oops, too late, said it)


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## Damnation (11 October 2012)

I am a curvy lady.

I am not light.

I ride light.

I have a 16.1hh with no back problems that can carry me, and doesn't struggle in the slightest.

I have a 17" saddle.

22 " would be HUGE :O Even my fat backside would be far too small in THAT :O

My horse could apparently take a 18" but 22" OMG


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## ester (11 October 2012)

Fellewell said:



			Must admit when I saw the thread title I did think tapeworms (oops, too late, said it)
		
Click to expand...

The solution to the obesity epidemic


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## lula (11 October 2012)

sophiebailey said:



			I think what is worrying is the current trend in 'embracing' your curves etc etc which is all fine and well if you're a healthy weight for your size but carrying a few extra pounds. But when it comes to people who are 'overweight' and 'obese', why are companies creating products that seem to give the impression that not only is it ok to be overweight, but that its normal? (
		
Click to expand...

simply, because companies have identified a market they can make money out of sophie.

a lot (not all) very over weight people aspire to lose weight for an assortment of personal reasons including health.

companies like FF take the opposite approach and seek to validate largely overweight people to keep their market share.
Thats all good and fine and perhaps im being overly cynical but when someone's coining in on a group of people by making them feel a certain way and encouraging them to join the 'cult of fluffiness' in an almost zealous manner with a lot of 'amen sistas!!' added to the mix i find it hard to think otherwise.
is it purely female solidarity by Suzanne fuller or a ploy to flog more size 22 zebra print jods?

excuse me for not being entirely convinced.


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## Wagtail (11 October 2012)

lula said:



			simply, because companies have identified a market they can make money out of sophie.

a lot (not all) very over weight people aspire to lose weight for an assortment of personal reasons including health.

companies like FF take the opposite approach and seek to validate largely overweight people to keep their market share.
Thats all good and fine and perhaps im being overly cynical but when someone's coining in on a group of people by making them feel a certain way and encouraging them to join the 'cult of fluffiness' in an almost zealous manner with a lot of 'amen sistas!!' added to the mix i find it hard to think otherwise.
is it purely female solidarity by Suzanne fuller or a ploy to flog more size 22 zebra print jods?

excuse me for not being entirely convinced.
		
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That is exactly what I was thinking. At first I was wondering why she was so OTT irate, and then I realised. Of course, if people like us convince the morbidly obese that they are too heavy to be riding, then she loses money.


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## TrasaM (11 October 2012)

lula said:



			simply, because companies have identified a market they can make money out 
Thats all good and fine and perhaps im being overly cynical but when someone's coining in on a group of people by making them feel a certain way and encouraging them to join the 'cult of fluffiness' in an almost zealous manner with a lot of 'amen sistas!!' added to the mix i find it hard to think otherwise.
is it purely female solidarity by Suzanne fuller or a ploy to flog more size 22 zebra print jods?

excuse me for not being entirely convinced.
		
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exactly the impression I got when reading the comments on the FF site. Could sum it up as 'come on ladies, eat more cake and keep on buying my clothing!


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## diet2ride (11 October 2012)

Ah see this is why I love HHO, I popped on here the other day and looking to see if anyone had commented on the new Fuller Fillies saddle (which I might add isnt even launched yet) well I didnt have to go very far it was the first thread I clicked on, I didnt even have to put it into the search. 

And as usual you didnt surprise me rather than discussing the saddle in an informed intelligent way. You quickly grasped onto the 22 which is a very loose 22inch seeing as they arent going to be off the shelf. But made to order, which I would happen a guess that if anyone going to the trouble of ordering a saddle it would go without question they would get the measurements needed for horse and rider. 

Rather than discussing the saddle as a piece of equipment you decided to quickly grasp the seat size furore. Fair enough the article in horse and hound is very sparse and despite the initial article being based on a Facebook link, they didnt think it relevant to include such information that would make for a genuine discussion, on the suitability of the saddle. But then again from reading this thread in its entirety I can see a lot of you have gone over to the mentioned page :-s 

As for me, my concern with the initial picture of the saddle is the skirt, it didnt look very comfortable. But then I am basing that purely on a picture and until I see it in the flesh I wont know for sure. Same as it wasnt until I saw a WOW saddle in the flesh and thought Thank god I got my Bates.

Firstly before I continue I would like to thank Wagtail for bringing up my blog on not one but two threads.  Yes I am a member on here, which you cant take away from me nor my right to ride my horse.  

I am what most would consider morbidly obese. Myself I like to call it grossly overweight and if anybody who knows me knows I have battled with this all my life. But hey Im not here to justify myself to you. If you want to know more check out www.diet2ride.com 

Im not even going to give the comments Ive read on this thread any more credence, they are purely and simply FAT BASHING made my obnoxious and rude people who it seems have nothing better to do than belittle people.  Whatever your beliefs about Obesity or Welfare it does not give any one the right to poke fun and make nasty comments about another human being Esp so in an online environment when you know neither the person or the story behind a picture. It is human nature to have differing opinions on a subject. But to bring them down to the level you have on this thread is beyond words. 

I just have 2 more points I want to bring up
1, who says horse riding has to be a sport? Where does it say you can only ride if you are an athlete! 
2, and as for the picture of the donkeys I thought aww cute donkeys that look healthy and looked after, doing a job they are bred for, Helping a community. Much like the saying History was written on the back of the horse,

I just want to leave you with one more thing, this was me and Nas earlier this year in the five years of owning him I dont think there has been a happier day for either of us. I was on his back for over an hour. And yes it was me hobbling around like a cowboy the following day. But Nas strode out of his box like he was ready to do it all again. 

http://youtu.be/UVT3VGKkAhI


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## Damnation (11 October 2012)

I haven't read the entire thread but I am assuming a 22" odd saddle would be sat on the weak and sensative part of the horses back behind the ribcage and would then cause back problems?


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## Puppy (11 October 2012)

Cloball said:



			What I also found worrying was the age, size and poor conformation of horses it is deemed acceptable to ride.
		
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Yes, and sadly elanorg's attempts to educated them on this has failed - 




			Originally Posted by elanorg    
Personally I would go on the overall conformation of the horse. Large amount of bone (measured around the cannon), a good, short back with no signs of sway and plenty of muscle, not fat though. Certain breeds are better weight carriers, such as cobs and irish draughts, however that cannot be relied on as each horse is an individual. For myself personally I wouldn't want to ride a fine boned older horse or young heavy at 150lbs. My last mare was a 16hh anglo arab (mainly tb) but with more bone than usual and comfortably carried my friend who was probably around 180lbs (so comfortably she'd happily spin and leap to the other side of the arena with her), but she was a very experienced and well balanced rider.
		
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			Originally Posted by Waresbear 
Maybe you should talk to a vet, horse chiro or at least someone who knows **** from shinola. Whoever told you this is either lying to you, ignorant, mentally challenged but most of all wrong. You sound very novice and uninformed, so get some experience and information. Good thing I weigh within your parameter of 130 lbs otherwise I would be too heavy to ride my horse? Seriously? Crazy talk, stop it, you are insulting these brave peops who have generously shared pics of themselves & their horses for OUR viewing pleasure, not for you to come on here and spout goofiness!
		
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Some of the ignorant comments on there are even more shocking then the photos.


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## Hippona (11 October 2012)

diet2ride said:



			I just have 2 more points I want to bring up
1, who says horse riding has to be a sport? Where does it say you can only ride if you are an athlete! 
/QUOTE]

You don't have to be an athlete.

It is preferable that YOUR enjoyment isn't causing unecessary suffering to your equine partner, however. 

And if you have to pull your horse out of your arse crack when you've finished enjoying yourself....then you are probably too big. 

And that includes 9 stone 'skinnies' riding mini shetties.
		
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## piebaldsparkle (11 October 2012)

I am shocked that FF would condone pics like this..........

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150807346210329&set=o.300209643951&type=1&permPage=1

Hell no I'm not I read some of the MDs comments..........


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## rhino (11 October 2012)

piebaldsparkle said:





I am shocked that FF would condone pics like this..........

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150807346210329&set=o.300209643951&type=1&permPage=1

Hell no I'm not I read some of the MDs comments..........

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Can't say I'm remotely surprised. Obviously bullying is only bullying when it's aimed at an overweight person...

Oh, and 'overweight' 'obese' 'morbidly obese' are technical, medical terms. Not insults... Seems to confuse some people.


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

This I find worrying as a lot of weight carrying horses are short coupled, which surely means that a 22 inch saddle will extend too far back, causing problems.


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

Hippona said:





diet2ride said:



			I just have 2 more points I want to bring up
1, who says horse riding has to be a sport? Where does it say you can only ride if you are an athlete! 
/QUOTE]

You don't have to be an athlete.

It is preferable that YOUR enjoyment isn't causing unecessary suffering to your equine partner, however. 

And if you have to pull your horse out of your arse crack when you've finished enjoying yourself....then you are probably too big. 

And that includes 9 stone 'skinnies' riding mini shetties.
		
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Hippona - made me LOL but very true!
		
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## Clava (11 October 2012)

Puppy said:



			Yes, and sadly elanorg's attempts to educated them on this has failed - 



Some of the ignorant comments on there are even more shocking then the photos.
		
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How true. They seem to really believe that 15.7 stone men on a 14.2  is OK. How can they think that ?



MHFoundation Quarters said:



			My hubby is a stout 220 very muscular guy, his favorite ride at our place is a 14.2 bulldog cutting bred QH. That horse has zero trouble carrying my hubby and still moves like a cat on his feet.
		
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## rhino (11 October 2012)

Clava said:



			How true. They seem to really believe that 15.7 stone men on a 14.2  is OK. How can they think that ?
		
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The woman who has been pictured on here on the beautiful grulla says she is over 300lbs (which is about 21stone I think), in full western tack, on a fairly fine looking 14hh.


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

Yes, the good old 'fat bashing excuse'. Obviously being overweight means you can't possibly be wrong, cruel or responsible for your own actions, anyone who comments negatively must just be picking on you because of your size. I find that attitude ruder than anything I've said. I judge people as individuals, idiots come in all shapes & sizes, being overweight doesn't entitle you to be excused from wrong. I assume those horrified at so called 'fat bashing' are equally disgusted by the 'skinny bashing' too. Although the general consensus on ff is otherwise. So me possibly offending someone too heavy for their horse isn't on, but causing physical pain to a horse is ok. I'll stick with my own morals thanks. 
Lula- excellent post.


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## Hippona (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			This I find worrying as a lot of weight carrying horses are short coupled, which surely means that a 22 inch saddle will extend too far back, causing problems.
		
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Agree....my arab just about gets away with a 17" and the highland with a 16.5".

Both are weight carrying breeds with stamina, but a 22" saddle would be over the loins/kidneys without a doubt.....


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## rhino (11 October 2012)

Hippona said:



			Agree....my arab just about gets away with a 17" and the highland with a 16.5".

Both are weight carrying breeds with stamina, but a 22" saddle would be over the loins/kidneys without a doubt.....
		
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My old boy would take a 19/20" easily enough, and looks silly in his 16.5 and 17" saddles, but it is precisely _because_ he has such a long back that he's not by any means a weight carrier! He's a 15.3hh lightweight WB (virtually pure TB breeding) with not the greatest conformation.


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## Hippona (11 October 2012)

Exactly....so, short coupled can't accomodate a 22", long-backed not really capable of carrying a huge weight....

....don't seem to be a call for said saddle eh?


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

But then, support we cant discriminate and say that "fuller" people cant ride.  Though 22 inch would be humongous (or however its spelt!)


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

Even if the saddle was designed as Tallyho said earlier, I think the riders weight, although more spread out would still be in the wrong places.


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## piebaldsparkle (11 October 2012)

diet2ride said:



			Im not even going to give the comments Ive read on this thread any more credence, they are purely and simply FAT BASHING made my obnoxious and rude people who it seems have nothing better to do than belittle people.  Whatever your beliefs about Obesity or Welfare it does not give any one the right to poke fun and make nasty comments about another human being Esp so in an online environment when you know neither the person or the story behind a picture.
		
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Hope you get equally horrified about skinny bashing!

Don't think anyone has a problem with an over weight rider riding a suitable mount with correctly fitted tack.  All however should be again anyone riding an unsuitable mount (7st stick on a mini shetland included), and/or using ill fitted or unsuitable tack.

Many horses back will not accommodate a 22" saddle or even a 18" saddle, and the fact is a long back is a weak back, so if they can carry a longer saddle, they will not be genuine weight carriers (and nor should they be expected to be).


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## diet2ride (11 October 2012)

But Littlelegs you are missing the point. I'm not using my weight as an excuse to ride. 

YOU are the one using the  'excuse of weight' to bash others in a derogatory way

What I am saying is how can you as adults make such rude and hurtful comments. based on a belief, 'your belief' that above a certain weight is too heavy for a horse. 

you are of course fully entitled to your beliefs and to express them eloquently and with thought to others, this is always a good basis for discussion.

to make cruel jibes to another person because 'you Believe' them to be too heavy for their horse, is *bullying*.


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## Polotash (11 October 2012)

diet2ride said:



			But Littlelegs you are missing the point. I'm not using my weight as an excuse to ride. 

YOU are the one using the  'excuse of weight' to bash others in a derogatory way

What I am saying is how can you as adults make such rude and hurtful comments. based on a belief, 'your belief' that above a certain weight is too heavy for a horse. 

you are of course fully entitled to your beliefs and to express them eloquently and with thought to others, this is always a good basis for discussion.

to make cruel jibes to another person because 'you Believe' them to be too heavy for their horse, is *bullying*.
		
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Uh, don't know what you are reading, but not the same as me, because Littlelegs hasn't said you are using your weight as an excuse to ride...

By the way, if you ache after an hour on your horse, you are not fit enough to ride. I would say that to any rider, no matter what their weight.


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## Clava (11 October 2012)

diet2ride said:



			to make cruel jibes to another person because 'you Believe' them to be too heavy for their horse, is *bullying*.
		
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I think some descriptions here are uncalled for BUT if these people were not riding I do not think anyone would comment on their weight at all. It is the cruelty to the horses which is provoking such feelings as they have no choice, the riders do choose whether to ride or not.

The other forum has had similar discussions, but the general level of what is seen as acceptable seems to be far greater than here, so I do think there are cultural differences. Perhaps FF would do better over there? One comment on this thread suggests that  people do have a right to ride, if they can afford a horse...post 8
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/too-big-ride-please-help-me-101126/


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## Puppy (11 October 2012)

Clava said:



			How true. They seem to really believe that 15.7 stone men on a 14.2  is OK. How can they think that ?
		
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I know. It's truly shocking.  

My OH is 6'3" and has just dropped from 15 stone to 14 1/2 and there is no way I would let him on my 15.3 ISH!!!! Not because I think he's "fat" (funnily enough I quite like how he's put together ), but because simple science and common sense tells me it would be against my horse's welfare. 

Me, yeah, I'm fat. I really need to lose a stone or two (I've put on a lot since being seriously injured, incapacitated and on a lot of steroids) but because I'm such a so short then even at 1-2 stone more than I should be I'm still not too heavy for my horse. Thats said, I'm trying to lose it and knowing I shall ride better is my main incentive. I have also given up another sport I love, purely because of my weight.


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## YorksG (11 October 2012)

diet2ride said:



			But Littlelegs you are missing the point. I'm not using my weight as an excuse to ride. 

YOU are the one using the  'excuse of weight' to bash others in a derogatory way

What I am saying is how can you as adults make such rude and hurtful comments. based on a belief, 'your belief' that above a certain weight is too heavy for a horse. 

you are of course fully entitled to your beliefs and to express them eloquently and with thought to others, this is always a good basis for discussion.

to make cruel jibes to another person because 'you Believe' them to be too heavy for their horse, is *bullying*.
		
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However the site you are supporting find it more than acceptable to make rude remarks based on other peoples size  The MD on fuller fillies has absolutely no problem encouraging people to remain obese. The people on the American Forum were, without doubt, too heavy for the horses they were riding 300lbs on a 14hh? How you can defend that is beyond me. The only reason I can see for saying that this is ok, is allow overweight/obese/morbidly obese people to feel that it is acceptable to compromise the welfare of the horses for their own self delusions. 
Just another point, the horse may well appear fine the following day/week,  the long term damage to joints and back tends to be cumulative.
The weight that people are or choose to be is entirely their business, provided they do not expect another living creature to pay the penalty for it.


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## kerilli (11 October 2012)

Well, having had a look at the FF Facebook page, I now feel besmirched.
In fact, I am incredibly offended because apparently, since I haven't got a backside the size of England (due to effort not genes!) I am not a REAL woman. REAL women apparently start at FF size 16 (a very generous 'size 16', I suspect), the rest of us are just disgusting little skinnies who are of no appeal to anyone. Pity our poor horses, since apparently we don't have their backs and saddles checked etc because we're so smug in our non-obeseness.
I have never seen so much **** in my life. 
Those who are getting incensed about the nasty comments on this thread etc... it's about the HORSES, not the riders. Can't you see that? If they just want to sit on a sofa or a Harley Davidson, they can go for it, get up to size 40, see if we care.   
This growing obesity and the ridiculous PC-ness surrounding it is going to damage horses who have little/no say in the matter, that's inexcusable imho.


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## Flame_ (11 October 2012)

I know this will upset people, but I'll say it anyway, lol. Being fat is a choice. It is something people can do something about, yes with possibly great difficulty, but they can. Obesity has a lot of similarities to alcoholism and drug addiction. No one would question that overcoming these afflictions is a huge struggle, but they are all a choice in the first place and doing something about them does remain a constant option. 

I mention this point because if someone posted in soapbox asking for support as they struggle with their drink problem, they'd get it with plenty of kindness and understanding advice. If they posted in here a video of them showjumping p*ssed, flopping around on their poor, confused horse, they'd get ripped into. To me that is all that's happened here.


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## rhino (11 October 2012)

kerilli said:



			Those who are getting incensed about the nasty comments on this thread etc... it's about the HORSES, not the riders. Can't you see that?
		
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It's quite clear to see that, no they can't get it. Or maybe 'won't' rather than 'can't'. I don't know


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## eahotson (11 October 2012)

Puppy said:



			I know. It's truly shocking.  

My OH is 6'3" and has just dropped from 15 stone to 14 1/2 and there is no way I would let him on my 15.3 ISH!!!! Not because I think he's "fat" (funnily enough I quite like how he's put together ), but because simple science and common sense tells me it would be against my horse's welfare. 

Me, yeah, I'm fat. I really need to lose a stone or two (I've put on a lot since being seriously injured, incapacitated and on a lot of steroids) but because I'm such a so short then even at 1-2 stone more than I should be I'm still not too heavy for my horse. Thats said, I'm trying to lose it and knowing I shall ride better is my main incentive. I have also given up another sport I love, purely because of my weight.
		
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16 stone stags on 14 hh Highlands plus the large special saddle to carry them.Criollo stalliuons around 14.2 performance tested over 750kms. 14 days, minimum 10kms  an hour and carrying 17.5 stone.Tested in Uraguay.


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## eahotson (11 October 2012)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Hope you get equally horrified about skinny bashing!

Don't think anyone has a problem with an over weight rider riding a suitable mount with correctly fitted tack.  All however should be again anyone riding an unsuitable mount (7st stick on a mini shetland included), and/or using ill fitted or unsuitable tack.

Many horses back will not accommodate a 22" saddle or even a 18" saddle, and the fact is a long back is a weak back, so if they can carry a longer saddle, they will not be genuine weight carriers (and nor should they be expected to be).
		
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You have to be fat do you to have a poorly fitting saddle and a horse with a damaged back?


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

I'm not missing the point at all. Rather I think you are. If my only aim was an excuse to make derogatory comments about overweight people, there are plenty of threads about diets, 'am I too big for my horse' etc, plus posts on this thread from larger, suitably mounted riders that I could have used as an excuse to be rude if I was that way inclined. As I have already said, if someone of 17 stone has a suitable horse I don't see an issue. 8 stone on a mini I have a problem with.20 stone on a fine pony, outrages me. I hardly think I'm alone in believing individual horses have weight limits. It's also bullying to call thin people cruel names if you take that pov. If someone believes its acceptable to inflict themselves on a too small horse, which is something I find deeply upsetting & distressing, its only natural I will express my anger in the only way possible. If I started a thread with pictures of me battering a pony with a lunge whip & inflicting pain, & encouraged others to post similar pictures of their 'bravery' in hurting animals, I would justifiably come in for a lot of personal insults by outraged animal lovers. I wouldn't have a right to respond by saying 'thats just your personal belief, & not an excuse for bullying'. Exactly the same for me with regards asking a horse to carry a too heavy rider. It might make those who are riding horses far too small better about their cruel actions to say its just 'my belief' or I'm a bully, it doesn't make it fact. I'm not getting all outraged & upset about the insults being used about thin people, because I really couldn't give a ****. But making animals suffer really gets my back up.


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## Mardy Mare (11 October 2012)

diet2ride said:



			YOU are the one using the  'excuse of weight' to bash others in a derogatory way
		
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Riders size and weight is what the crux of this topic has come down to.

Some people have bashed others, but this in reaction to viewing pictures of severely overweight adults riding horses which are clearly too small for them- in a lot of peoples minds, this is cruel. Some of these riders have shown and expressed blatent disregard for their animals which may have caused people to comment in the way they have.


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## dafthoss (11 October 2012)

diet2ride said:



			who says horse riding has to be a sport? Where does it say you can only ride if you are an athlete! 

I just want to leave you with one more thing, this was me and Nas earlier this year in the five years of owning him I dont think there has been a happier day for either of us. I was on his back for over an hour. And yes it was me hobbling around like a cowboy the following day. But Nas strode out of his box like he was ready to do it all again.
		
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This is precisley the reason you need to be fit to ride most people I know ride for an hour a day without even thinking of it let alone being sore from it. The only reason for being that sore after riding for an hour would be after years out of the saddle. And thats not fat bashing as you like to put it, riding is a sport and therefore requires a level of fitness to be able to do it. 

I'm not against larger people riding as long as they are suitably mounted but I am against the MD of FF saying that those that arnt a size 16 or above arnt real women! For some thats just not a natural size and never will be, if the comments were against larger ladies then there would be uproar but its ok to insult those that are naturally small.


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## rhino (11 October 2012)

eahotson said:



			You have to be fat do you to have a poorly fitting saddle and a horse with a damaged back?
		
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Where did anyone say that?


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## Jesstickle (11 October 2012)

eahotson said:



			You have to be fat do you to have a poorly fitting saddle and a horse with a damaged back?
		
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No, she/he said the exact opposite of that? 

No one should ride in ill fitting tack.


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## YasandCrystal (11 October 2012)

Baggybreeches said:



			That's a pretty ignorant comment, I know of an 11.2 lead rein pony who had an 18'' saddle specially made for her due to a number of issues, it didn't look out of place. I have a 15.2 and a 17.1 and they both have 17'' saddles because that's the size that I prefer/am best suited to.
I don't think that overweight people should feel that it's OK to continue to ride whilst being too heavy but it depends on what type of horse they have and what they are doing with it, and don't forget it could be the incentive they need to get fit and lose weight.
		
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It's pretty ignorant that as a horsey person you don't realise something as basic about back length and weight carrying ability/strength as pointed out by many already. Perhaps read some of the information.   I would love to see an 11.2hh in an 18" saddle; that's the most ridiculous thing I think I have read on this forum yet! Maybe next you will be claiming it could carry 14 stone.


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## eahotson (11 October 2012)

Flame_ said:



			I know this will upset people, but I'll say it anyway, lol. Being fat is a choice. It is something people can do something about, yes with possibly great difficulty, but they can. Obesity has a lot of similarities to alcoholism and drug addiction. No one would question that overcoming these afflictions is a huge struggle, but they are all a choice in the first place and doing something about them does remain a constant option. 

I mention this point because if someone posted in soapbox asking for support as they struggle with their drink problem, they'd get it with plenty of kindness and understanding advice. If they posted in here a video of them showjumping p*ssed, flopping around on their poor, confused horse, they'd get ripped into. To me that is all that's happened here.
		
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I don't honestly think true alcholism is a choice.Its totally different from just heavy drinking.Heavy drinkers can control or stop if they have to whereas alcholics have a life long b attle on their hands.Even the best and most motivated can slip and slide a bit.Gross obesity has its roots in other things I think and we don't always know yet what that is.Just as one example, girl I knew.Doing stages at college.From memory about 5ft 5.Weighed at a conservative estimate about 16 stone.Lovely girl actually.Sister about the same.Mother perfectly  normally sized.Horrible childhood with ongoing issues.Very violent father.


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

Whoa, for all the people saying that people are "fat bashing" it is a case of what is right for the horse.  As said by others, a suitable sized horse will be fine but a 22 inch saddle could be ill fitting.  Theres no argument that a light person will not damage a horse if the saddle is ill fitting or too long on a weight carrier with a short back.  The thread is about 22 inch saddles, nothing else.  It does all depend on the mount and rider.  Im tall and light but i would not ride something that was not capable of taking my weight.  Think some peoples are taking it a bit to heart when people are only trying to think of the horses!


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## eahotson (11 October 2012)

jesstickle said:



			No, she/he said the exact opposite of that? 

No one should ride in ill fitting tack.
		
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A huge number of people do though.One BHS student who had, even to my untutored eye, a very badly fitting saddle, said to me, when I said getting saddle fitter out, Well we have been taught saddle fitting in college so I know what I am doing!!!!!


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## diet2ride (11 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Yes, the good old 'fat bashing excuse'. Obviously being overweight means you can't possibly be wrong, cruel or responsible for your own actions, anyone who comments negatively must just be picking on you because of your size.
		
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By Their definition I am being cruel to ride my horse. and using my weight as an excuse to do so. 

as for supporting a group, I am not a member of a cult. I am an overweight rider who wishes to enjoy a hobby. I am on the sites and enjoy talking to like minded people. 

when you attack on such a personal level then you should expect like wise back. it is not my place to say how others conduct themselves. 

but if you are attacking a group of people because they don't confirm to your ideals, based on your beliefs. in such a derogatory manner Then yes I will stand up to that. and say Hang on I ride, and my horse is fine.


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## rhino (11 October 2012)

On completely unrelated note, does anyone want to help me choose my next eventer? I quite like the spotty one, but not sure if he'd be better in a 21 or 22" saddle 

Event horses for sale


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

Methinks maybe its time to close this can of worms??????


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## dafthoss (11 October 2012)

rhino said:



			On completely unrelated note, does anyone want to help me choose my next eventer? I quite like the spotty one, but not sure if he'd be better in a 21 or 22" saddle 

Event horses for sale

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I like the one at the top of the page, think it could take a 22'' at least which you should just about be able to fit in!


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## Hippona (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			Methinks maybe its time to close this can of worms??????
		
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Probably best.

Before it gets eaten.


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

Nobodys said that obesity doesn't have deep seated issues or that people can easily drop to a healthy weight. But the why's & wherefores aren't actually relevant to the horse carrying them. I have actually let a morbidly obese person ride my 14.2 connie x tb, let her jump & canter too. And it was my suggestion she do so, despite the fact she weighed more than double what she should. A morbidly obese child, with various complex medical issues that were in no way the parents fault. Morbidly obese novice small child, I was very happy to help. Would I let a tall, thin, 12stone man on her now she's older? No way.


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## newera (11 October 2012)

I've not read all of the replies, but my thoughts, based purely on reading the article, are that it is probably not very likely to find many riding horses that are able to withstand a 22inch saddle.  I own a 17.3hh who wears 7ft 3inch rugs and he owns a 17.5" dressage saddle and an 18" jumping saddle, both were fitted to him and there is no way even a horse his size would want anything bigger than an 18"!

The comment by the H&H vet, is also a little odd isn't it? Surely, in the days when horses were used to carry men wearing armour into battle, the standards of animal welfare, and what was and what wasn't acceptable for animals to endure in those past times, can hardly be compared to animal welfare standards in 2012 ????


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## zizz (11 October 2012)

diet2ride said:



			and say Hang on I ride, and my horse is fine.
		
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But i bet youaren't over 300 pounds on a 14 hand lightweight pony!!!


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

newera said:



			I've not read all of the replies, but my thoughts, based purely on reading the article, are that it is probably not very likely to find many riding horses that are able to withstand a 22inch saddle.  I own a 17.3hh who wears 7ft 3inch rugs and he owns a 17.5" dressage saddle and an 18" jumping saddle, both were fitted to him and there is no way even a horse his size would want anything bigger than an 18"!

The comment by the H&H vet, is also a little odd isn't it? Surely, in the days when horses were used to carry men wearing armour into battle, the standards of animal welfare, and what was and what wasn't acceptable for animals to endure in those past times, can hardly be compared to animal welfare standards in 2012 ????
		
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well said! what most people have been saying all along


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## Mardy Mare (11 October 2012)

Hippona said:



			Probably best.

Before it gets eaten.
		
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HAHAHAHA


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

Mardy Mare said:



			HAHAHAHA 

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Lol, bit slow and just this second realised what was being said!!!


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

Diet2ride, I haven't commented on you though? I haven't a clue what size either yourself or your horse are, (youtube playing up) so no idea why you think my comments have been specifically tailored to yourself. 
   The skinny bashing isn't at all just a return of anything I or others have said. Nobody has made any comments aimed as general insults to everyone who is overweight. Whereas unless I missed something the ff site is pretty much insulting everyone under size 16. You have double standards imo, you say its not your place to say how others conduct themselves. That doesn't seem to apply when its someone making negative comments about horse squashing does it?


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## kerilli (11 October 2012)

eahotson said:



			I don't honestly think true alcholism is a choice.Its totally different from just heavy drinking.Heavy drinkers can control or stop if they have to whereas alcholics have a life long b attle on their hands.Even the best and most motivated can slip and slide a bit.Gross obesity has its roots in other things I think and we don't always know yet what that is.
		
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Hmm, the difference is that alcoholics (and former drug addicts etc) can totally avoid their particular 'poison' - I know some that do, very successfully. They just do not allow themselves near to temptation. But if you are a food addict (the word 'carboholic' has been coined) it is not possible to avoid food for the rest of your life. It becomes a lifelong battle to eat enough to have energy etc but not fall off the cliff and overeat, eat the wrong things (which we are now surrounded with) and yo-yo back up again.
I suspect that 99% of obese people would probably, deep down, just LOVE to wake up one morning in a fit and healthy much lighter body, however much they say they love their size, embrace their curves, feel like a 'real woman' and all that ****. 
Nobody ever said it's easy but it is a choice for most people... very very few can say their weight is 100% down to illness, hormones etc. It took a long time to put on that weight, it takes a long time to get rid of it, and it'll be a daily battle against a body which is convinced that a famine is coming and it needs to hang onto every calorie... 
Other people validating their size, saying 'it's fine to be 20 stone and still ride" might bolster their confidence but it is just NOT fair on the horses, nothing will ever change my mind on that. And the statement on the FF facebook page that there's a horse out there the right size for everyone just makes me want to scream.


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Diet2ride, I haven't commented on you though? I haven't a clue what size either yourself or your horse are, (youtube playing up) so no idea why you think my comments have been specifically tailored to yourself. 
   The skinny bashing isn't at all just a return of anything I or others have said. Nobody has made any comments aimed as general insults to everyone who is overweight. Whereas unless I missed something the ff site is pretty much insulting everyone under size 16. You have double standards imo, you say its not your place to say how others conduct themselves. That doesn't seem to apply when its someone making negative comments about horse squashing does it?
		
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Yeah i did wonder why the comment from littlelegs was picked up on by diet2ride.  Though.....and this is probably going to be absolutely slated for me saying this but....... if youre saying everyone is fat bashing and it doesnt matter about weight, etc then why are you dieting to ride?


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

Also, why should smaller people deserve to be insulted like that?  "large people" dont like people insulting them but yet you make derogatory comments to smaller people.  At the end of the day, it is unhealthy to be obese, it doesnt just happen overnight and to take your anger out on smaller people is ridiculous.  by "you" i dont necessarily mean diet2ride but anyone who makes these comments.


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## Mardy Mare (11 October 2012)

newera said:



			The comment by the H&H vet, is also a little odd isn't it? Surely, in the days when horses were used to carry men wearing armour into battle, the standards of animal welfare, and what was and what wasn't acceptable for animals to endure in those past times, can hardly be compared to animal welfare standards in 2012 ????
		
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Agree.  

What gets me is people always say 'horses used to carry men in armour into war.'  What they don't realise is the men were not massive, chunky, six-packed muscle machines you see in the movies.  They would have been fit but slim and on rations and smaller than people in general are today.  Obviously Knights horses had not only their riders and riders armour to carry but their own armour. Yes the armour would have been heavy, but I think when most people think of knights in armour, their stature is often exaggerated in their mind.  

Plus, these horses and men were fighting for their country and lives, so animal welfare was not their top priority.


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## lula (11 October 2012)

piebaldsparkle said:





I am shocked that FF would condone pics like this..........

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150807346210329&set=o.300209643951&type=1&permPage=1

Hell no I'm not I read some of the MDs comments..........

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rhino said:



			Can't say I'm remotely surprised. Obviously bullying is only bullying when it's aimed at an overweight person...

Oh, and 'overweight' 'obese' 'morbidly obese' are technical, medical terms. Not insults... Seems to confuse some people.
		
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Suzanne Fuller posting this on her FF fb is nothing short of shockingly hypocritical considering her stance on bullying
(or perhaps its only the group of people you're making money out of you care about standing up for eh Suzanne?)


Indeed, some people that know a little about metabolism would argue that the majority of skinny people have LESS control about being underweight than the majority (Im NOT saying ALL, before i get jumped on..) of overweight people do.


if this isnt encouraging people to mock a portion of society for the way they look then i dont know what is. 

outrageous graphic and strap line.


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

kerilli said:



			Other people validating their size, saying 'it's fine to be 20 stone and still ride" might bolster their confidence but it is just NOT fair on the horses, nothing will ever change my mind on that. And the statement on the FF facebook page that there's a horse out there the right size for everyone just makes me want to scream.
		
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This.  I have loads of horses, ranging in size from ponies right up to 18.2hhs and not one would happily carry someone over 16 stone and I wouldn't allow it anyway.  

Diet2ride, I finally watched your videos.  What a nice rider you are.  Very calm and gentle and balanced.  I think once you do shed the amount of weight you are striving for your horse will look happier, work better and the weightloss will benefit you greatly in many other aspects of life too.  Brave of you to post a blog on it and I'm sure myself (and many other 'twigs') wish you much success


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## Hippona (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			Yeah i did wonder why the comment from littlelegs was picked up on by diet2ride.  Though.....and this is probably going to be absolutely slated for me saying this but....... if youre saying everyone is fat bashing and it doesnt matter about weight, etc then why are you dieting to ride?
		
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That thought did also cross my mind.....


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## smokey (11 October 2012)

YasandCrystal said:



			It's pretty ignorant that as a horsey person you don't realise something as basic about back length and weight carrying ability/strength as pointed out by many already. Perhaps read some of the information.   I would love to see an 11.2hh in an 18" saddle; that's the most ridiculous thing I think I have read on this forum yet! Maybe next you will be claiming it could carry 14 stone.
		
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I saw this comment yesterday, and decided against commenting, glad you said it though. When I saw the original post I thought it must be a typo. I'm still praying it is!


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## kerilli (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			Though.....and this is probably going to be absolutely slated for me saying this but....... if youre saying everyone is fat bashing and it doesnt matter about weight, etc then why are you dieting to ride?
		
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Jeez, please, let's not have a go at someone who IS trying to lose weight to make things easier for their horse, huh?!
Presumably because she, unlike a lot of the "ffs", is NOT totally delusional and CAN see that the extra weight affects her balance and riding ability as well as her horse...


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

kerilli said:



			Jeez, please, let's not have a go at someone who IS trying to lose weight to make things easier for their horse, huh?!
Presumably because she, unlike a lot of the "ffs", is NOT totally delusional and CAN see that the extra weight affects her balance and riding ability as well as her horse...
		
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Hang on.  i wasnt having a go at her for trying to lose the weight.  This is where i knew id get slated as people would take it the wrong way.  My point was merely that she was saying she is fine for her horse and not to slate people who are overweight riding yet she is trying to lose weight.  it was not meant to be taken in a nasty way, just wondered why that was all when she said she was overweight and a rider.  Sorry diet2ride if i have offended you but it wasnt meant like that, merely a question as in her post she seemed ot be saying she was happy like that.


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## kerilli (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			Hang on.  i wasnt having a go at her for trying to lose the weight.  This is where i knew id get slated as people would take it the wrong way.  My point was merely that she was saying she is fine for her horse and not to slate people who are overweight riding yet she is trying to lose weight.  it was not meant to be taken in a nasty way, just wondered why that was all when she said she was overweight and a rider.  Sorry diet2ride if i have offended you but it wasnt meant like that, merely a question as in her post she seemed ot be saying she was happy like that.
		
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I can see what you mean, but I infer that you are saying that she is being a bit hypocritical. However, I can see the sense in "I'm okay and I've been assured that my horse is fine carrying my weight of x, but I'd still rather lose weight for my own health/vanity/riding ability/ whatever, and for my horse". I don't see that as hypocritical! Not having a go at you btw.


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## eahotson (11 October 2012)

kerilli said:



			Hmm, the difference is that alcoholics (and former drug addicts etc) can totally avoid their particular 'poison' - I know some that do, very successfully. They just do not allow themselves near to temptation. But if you are a food addict (the word 'carboholic' has been coined) it is not possible to avoid food for the rest of your life. It becomes a lifelong battle to eat enough to have energy etc but not fall off the cliff and overeat, eat the wrong things (which we are now surrounded with) and yo-yo back up again.
I suspect that 99% of obese people would probably, deep down, just LOVE to wake up one morning in a fit and healthy much lighter body, however much they say they love their size, embrace their curves, feel like a 'real woman' and all that ****. 
Nobody ever said it's easy but it is a choice for most people... very very few can say their weight is 100% down to illness, hormones etc. It took a long time to put on that weight, it takes a long time to get rid of it, and it'll be a daily battle against a body which is convinced that a famine is coming and it needs to hang onto every calorie... 
Other people validating their size, saying 'it's fine to be 20 stone and still ride" might bolster their confidence but it is just NOT fair on the horses, nothing will ever change my mind on that. And the statement on the FF facebook page that there's a horse out there the right size for everyone just makes me want to scream.
		
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I have no idea exactly what the maximum weight a fit weight carrying horse can be asked to carry.I expect you would also have to factor in what sort of rider they were and what they wanted to do.A gentle hack round the block twice a week is different from say, hunting.I think most of us have a personal maximum over which we would not be comfortable riding.I came close to my maximum once I think but have managed to loose some.I haven't seen any of the women on the FF page over what I am comfortable with but saw one or two on the plus sized page.If I weighed that much and wanted horse involvement I think I would learn to drive instead.


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

kerilli said:



			I can see what you mean, but I infer that you are saying that she is being a bit hypocritical. However, I can see the sense in "I'm okay and I've been assured that my horse is fine carrying my weight of x, but I'd still rather lose weight for my own health/vanity/riding ability/ whatever, and for my horse". I don't see that as hypocritical! Not having a go at you btw.
		
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No i know what you mean.  I probably didnt word my question to her properly.  I didnt mean to imply that she was being hypocritical, was just interested in ther reasoning


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			Hang on.  i wasnt having a go at her for trying to lose the weight.  This is where i knew id get slated as people would take it the wrong way.
		
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Get used to it Sam.  It won't be the last time you'll be taken the wrong way on here   People are forever putting their spin on what others say.  I agreed with your comment as it was a valid comment.  Why do fat people say they are content with their size and then go on diets?  It doesn't make sense to me either


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## ClobellsandBaubles (11 October 2012)

Just read the ' it's not a privilege to ride a horse it's a right if you can afford it' !!!!!!!
I agree with Kerilli it's not like any other addiction that you can avoid and it is very much a product of modern society NOT an individual over eating. We  as humans have not changed fundamentally for many years and yet this epidemic didn't exist in the 70's what does that tell you.


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## rhino (11 October 2012)

Have a read of D2R's blog sam, to me she doesn't come across as being remotely happy with her weight and level of fitness. She sounds desperately lost and unhappy to me


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			Get used to it Sam.  It won't be the last time you'll be taken the wrong way on here   People are forever putting their spin on what others say.  I agreed with your comment as it was a valid comment.  Why do fat people say they are content with their size and then go on diets?  It doesn't make sense to me either
		
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Thanks


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

rhino said:



			Have a read of D2R's blog sam, to me she doesn't come across as being remotely happy with her weight and level of fitness. She sounds desperately lost and unhappy to me 

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Yeah im having a read now  dont get me wrong its great that diet2ride is doing this and it is very brave to let the whole world see it as well.  Just in her post on here she was letting everyone else have it about saying people may be too heavy for their horses


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## lula (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			Hang on.  i wasnt having a go at her for trying to lose the weight.  This is where i knew id get slated as people would take it the wrong way.  My point was merely that she was saying she is fine for her horse and not to slate people who are overweight riding yet she is trying to lose weight.  it was not meant to be taken in a nasty way, just wondered why that was all when she said she was overweight and a rider.  Sorry diet2ride if i have offended you but it wasnt meant like that, merely a question as in her post she seemed ot be saying she was happy like that.
		
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no, i think you asked a fair question sam.

just my two penneth' worth: but not for a second am i slating over weight riders. As long as you have an up to weight horse bloody good on you. 

I do however, think there is a limit and the sad thing about the american thread is a lot of them dont seem to realise it - or want to believe it- and are looking for validation and comfort from each other (and getting it) that 300lbs is not too heavy for 14hh (for example)

This i do think is very sad.. and a little selfish towards your horse. Just because your horse is still standing after you've mounted and hasnt collapsed on to his knees should'nt be used as proof that he's happy with the situation.

People like the evengelical MD of Fuller fillies make me slightly suspicious if her FB page is anything to go by, as im not convinced she's not exploiting others to gain commercial success with lines like 'you're never too heavy to ride'

which is blatantly untrue.


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## hairycob (11 October 2012)

Yes some people have medical issues tht mean they can't control their weight, but the vast majority (& that includes members of my immediate family) are overweight because they eat too much. You only have to go to a country where food is scarce to realise that. But in the end the reason someone is overweight is irrelevant when it comes to riding a horse. If you are overweight for the horse that is stood in front of you then you are to heavy to ride it. As has been pointed out that can apply to a thin adult & a small pony as much as to an larger adult & a sturdier horse. Anybody who tries to say it's ok is not only being cruel to the horse, they are being cruel to the human in discouraging a healthier lifestyle. To do so for financial gain has to be pretty low


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## Mongoose11 (11 October 2012)

I am confused by Diet2ride's continued riding. I think I was very clear on my posts that although I think we should be careful not to insult heavy riders personally, I do think it is right to speak out when someone is obviously too heavy for their horse. 

I have read every post on your blog Diet2ride and had done way before this 'can of worms' ever opened. From my own posts on this thread you will be able to see that I am facing a clear battle with obesity and so my comments are not borne out of a lack of empathy or understanding. Your calculations have proved to you that you are too heavy to be riding Nas (who is an absolute stunner by the way and clearly well loved and cared for). Being 3% over his maximum weight carrying ability is significant as far as I am concerned.  If I am reading correctly you are now a stone heavier than when you made these calculations and so more than 3% over his weight limit? Or do I have that wrong? 

I am currently heading towards my mares top weight and so I have decided that I won't ride for the next 6 weeks in the hope that I will lose a stone before getting on her again. If I lose a stone more quickly then I will get on her.

I wholly support your weight loss journey, I know how hard it is and how you probably go to bed at night wishing it would all have melted away by the morning. I don't support your riding at the moment. I could be completely wrong, but according to the bone/weight calcualtions that we can conduct, Nas, according to his measurements, shouldn't be carrying you at the moment. 

No matter how much I sympathise with a person over their obesity issues I can not support continued riding when all the stats suggest that the horse is unable to and shouldn't be asked to carry that weight.

I do hope this post isn't considered hypocritical despite my earlier messages, I made it very clear I didn't like the insults that were being thrown but I wholly supported the idea of people being informed and discouraged from riding if they were indeed too heavy for their horse.

Perhaps we could get together and support each other as we try to lose weight? I do hope that you are not hurt by what I have posted, I am only commenting using the facts, facts I have had to face with my own mare. She does carry me, very happily and I am not over her weight limit but I don't feel right riding her and I don't want to risk her future health, I want her to last forever and this is something I can do to ensure that she doesn't suffer later in life or have to retire early.

Look at her lovely face in my avatar - her and Nas would make a lovely couple (but don't tell Buddy or Buds_mum because she already has a thing going with him).


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

I have just read some of the blog and was just wondering about the 3% over maximum for Nas then surely that is still bad?  I would have thought it would be better to be under that level rather than be happy that you are not as far over it as you would have thought? think that makes sense.....


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## ester (11 October 2012)

I think as kerilli and others have said the problem exists because a horse is involved, not say.. a bicycle.. 

And as said before, said horse really doesn't know/care about why someone is the weight they are, medication, life problems etc it just knows their weight. 

Horses are great therapy in a lot of instances.. but noone needs to ride them to use them for this purpose and no welfare need be compromised.


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## eahotson (11 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			I am confused by Diet2ride's continued riding. I think I was very clear on my posts that although I think we should be careful not to insult heavy riders personally, I do think it is right to speak out when someone is obviously too heavy for their horse. 

I have read every post on your blog Diet2ride and had done way before this 'can of worms' ever opened. From my own posts on this thread you will be able to see that I am facing a clear battle with obesity and so my comments are not borne out of a lack of empathy or understanding. Your calculations have proved to you that you are too heavy to be riding Nas (who is an absolute stunner by the way and clearly well loved and cared for). Being 3% over his maximum weight carrying ability is significant as far as I am concerned.  If I am reading correctly you are now a stone heavier than when you made these calculations and so more than 3% over his weight limit? Or do I have that wrong? 

I am currently heading towards my mares top weight and so I have decided that I won't ride for the next 6 weeks in the hope that I will lose a stone before getting on her again. If I lose a stone more quickly then I will get on her.

I wholly support your weight loss journey, I know how hard it is and how you probably go to bed at night wishing it would all have melted away by the morning. I don't support your riding at the moment. I could be completely wrong, but according to the bone/weight calcualtions that we can conduct, Nas, according to his measurements, shouldn't be carrying you at the moment. 

No matter how much I sympathise with a person over their obesity issues I can not support continued riding when all the stats suggest that the horse is unable to and shouldn't be asked to carry that weight.

I do hope this post isn't considered hypocritical despite my earlier messages, I made it very clear I didn't like the insults that were being thrown but I wholly supported the idea of people being informed and discouraged from riding if they were indeed too heavy for their horse.

Perhaps we could get together and support each other as we try to lose weight? I do hope that you are not hurt by what I have posted, I am only commenting using the facts, facts I have had to face with my own mare. She does carry me, very happily and I am not over her weight limit but I don't feel right riding her and I don't want to risk her future health, I want her to last forever and this is something I can do to ensure that she doesn't suffer later in life or have to retire early.
		
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That is a very fair and balanced post which most reasonable people would agree with.


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## hairycob (11 October 2012)

Billie007 - respect!


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## Wagtail (11 October 2012)

diet2ride said:



			By Their definition I am being cruel to ride my horse. and using my weight as an excuse to do so. 

as for supporting a group, I am not a member of a cult. I am an overweight rider who wishes to enjoy a hobby. I am on the sites and enjoy talking to like minded people. 

when you attack on such a personal level then you should expect like wise back. it is not my place to say how others conduct themselves. 

but if you are attacking a group of people because they don't confirm to your ideals, based on your beliefs. in such a derogatory manner Then yes I will stand up to that. and say Hang on I ride, and my horse is fine.
		
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I am sorry, diet2ride, but you are 23 stone. Add to that the saddle and your clothes and boots, hat etc, you are asking your beautiful horse to carry 25 stone. That is IMO cruel. That is 160 kilos. Add to this that your weight is very top heavy and unbalanced...


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## Wagtail (11 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Diet2ride, I haven't commented on you though? I haven't a clue what size either yourself or your horse are, (youtube playing up) so no idea why you think my comments have been specifically tailored to yourself. 
   The skinny bashing isn't at all just a return of anything I or others have said. Nobody has made any comments aimed as general insults to everyone who is overweight. Whereas unless I missed something the ff site is pretty much insulting everyone under size 16. You have double standards imo, you say its not your place to say how others conduct themselves. That doesn't seem to apply when its someone making negative comments about horse squashing does it?
		
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She is 23 stone.


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

I do think, no offence to anyone intended, that I have a member of the family who is a size 20-22 and she would not ride even if it was a stocky cob.  I do think that a person of size 24 (as catered for by FF) is too heavy to be riding most horses.  I would have thought that it would be motivation to lose the weight to be able to ride without putting the horse in danger in the meantime by riding it.


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## Copperpot (11 October 2012)

Billie you talk a great deal of sense  

23 stone, I'm sorry but for me that is too much to ride. That is simply asking too much of any horse.


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## Wagtail (11 October 2012)

Excellent post Billie007. Despite your own problems you put your horse's interests above your own enjoyment.


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## FionaM12 (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			I do think, no offence to anyone intended, that I have a member of the family who is a size 20-22 and she would not ride even if it was a stocky cob.  I do think that a person of size 24 (as catered for by FF) is too heavy to be riding most horses.  I would have thought that it would be motivation to lose the weight to be able to ride without putting the horse in danger in the meantime by riding it.
		
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I work with a lady who is a size 20/22 and she weighs just over 12 stone undressed. I know this for a fact, as I weigh her and buy her clothes! Clothes size is not a good guide to weight nor is 12 stone too much for many horses.


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

you know what? im just gonna keep my mouth shut.  I accept there may be the odd exception but mostly a size 24 would weigh a lot more than 12 stone.


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## Wagtail (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			you know what? im just gonna keep my mouth shut.  I accept there may be the odd exception but mostly a size 24 would weigh a lot more than 12 stone.
		
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I agree. This lady must be very short to only weigh 12 stone and be that size.


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## lula (11 October 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			I work with a lady who is a size 20/22 and she weighs just over 12 stone undressed. I know this for a fact, as I weigh her and buy her clothes! Clothes size is not a good guide to weight nor is 12 stone too much for many horses.
		
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well i have to take your word for that fiona as obviously this is someone you know so i will but have to say im surprised. once in my life i got up to 12 stone (eating disorders- my weight yo yo'd for a time - my bad ) and i was a size 14-16 at biggest.

you sure you scales are right? 


edited to say ; apologies,. just saw wagtails post and id forgotten to take height into the equation and i am tall so perhaps that accounted for the difference in the clothe size/weight ratio


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

Sorry, but if you are 23stone diet2ride, I agree with Wagtail, its cruel & selfish imo, no horse should carry that. 
  I'm not sure clothes sizing is an accurate guide to being too heavy to ride, there's too much variation in different brands & styles. Somewhere like ff with generous sizes, I'd imagine their 24 would fit someone several stones heavier than say someone who's a 20 in a shop with less generous sizing.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

diet2ride said:



			But Littlelegs you are missing the point. I'm not using my weight as an excuse to ride. 

YOU are the one using the  'excuse of weight' to bash others in a derogatory way

What I am saying is how can you as adults make such rude and hurtful comments. based on a belief, 'your belief' that above a certain weight is too heavy for a horse. 

you are of course fully entitled to your beliefs and to express them eloquently and with thought to others, this is always a good basis for discussion.

to make cruel jibes to another person because 'you Believe' them to be too heavy for their horse, is *bullying*.
		
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It's definitely not a belief. It's a fact. Fact is fact is fact and you did your own calculations which proved the fact you are too heavy. This statement is also just a fact and I have not written it with intent to bully anybody, especially not you.

But above what weight exactly do you believe IS too heavy?


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

actually, going on the whole clothes size thing, it does depend on height etc too.  the person i know is 5'9 and a size 20-22 - hence probably heavier than someone shorter but unless they are extremely short, weight would still be quite a lot.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			actually, going on the whole clothes size thing, it does depend on height etc too.  the person i know is 5'9 and a size 20-22 - hence probably heavier than someone shorter but unless they are a proper midget, weight would still be quite a lot.
		
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Oh dear, this can of worms has just gone 3D.


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

right so my observations dont mean anything?  sorry


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## Wagtail (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



			right so my observations dont mean anything?  sorry
		
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I think it may have been you reference to midget.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

It was just a joke Sam, don't worry


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

Wagtail said:



			I think it may have been you reference to midget.
		
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not meant in a derogatory way but now edited.


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## Christsam (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			It was just a joke Sam, don't worry 

Click to expand...

soz, got so much "opinion bashing" on here thought it was another


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

I love it when someone bashes my onions!


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## FfionWinnie (11 October 2012)

Wagtail said:



			I am sorry, diet2ride, but you are 23 stone. Add to that the saddle and your clothes and boots, hat etc, you are asking your beautiful horse to carry 25 stone. That is IMO cruel. That is 160 kilos. Add to this that *your weight is very top heavy and unbalanced*...
		
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As can be seen in the canter part of the video. 

Diet2ride.  I've been fat. Of course it's a choice. You don't see any obese folk in famine struck countries do you. The choice is eat less, weigh less, it doesn't matter what medical condition or what tablets you are on, it is a basic fact that if energy in exceeds energy out you will gain weight. I know this because my entire adult life has been a battle between what I want to eat and what size I want to be.  I have never been proud of being fat, I hated every minute of it, hated shopping for clothes, hated having my picture taken. I would never ever have been in your video with my backside in hot pink jodhpurs because I was so ashamed to look at myself.  I've never been bullied or really bothered about what anyone else thought it was more what I thought about it that counted. 

I've lost 4 stones and now I am thin. It's still a struggle. I still want to eat more than I should and I want to eat junk food. Every day it is a choice.

I would not have ridden 4 stone over weight. 

The other thing is if you are 5ft tall and your BMI is 32, you can weigh less than someone who is 6ft tall and just a bit over weight. It's not about the person it about the total weight the horse should be expected to carry. Do you really think that little Dancer mare should be carrying a 300lb + rider?


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## Wagtail (11 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			As can be seen in the canter part of the video.
		
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And also frequently using the reins to regain her balance.


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

I'm going to refrain from particulars, having now viewed the you tube film. What I will say is that I'd rather an unknown person formed the personal opinion I'm rude, obnoxious, a bully etc as diet2ride called me, than have to live with the knowledge I had deliberately caused pain to an animal. And I don't believe any bs about why someone is obese has any bearing on their right to ride. I can't imagine any horse saying 'yeah, the extra weight isn't a problem cos they had a crap childhood, low self worth etc' all the horse knows is it hurts & has to struggle.


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## Puppy (11 October 2012)

I've only watched the 'countdown to XC' and 'Canter on' videos so far, but that horse is not sound behind, I'm afraid


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## Wagtail (11 October 2012)

Puppy said:



			I've only watched the 'countdown to XC' and 'Canter on' videos so far, but that horse is not sound behind, I'm afraid 

Click to expand...

 I thought that too. He is much better in the early vids and doesn't briing his head up so high.


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## FionaM12 (11 October 2012)

Sam_1985 said:



*you know what? im just gonna keep my mouth shut. * I accept there may be the odd exception but mostly a size 24 would weigh a lot more than 12 stone.
		
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Just come back and seen this. Sorry you took it personally, I was just pointing out that clothed size isn't an accurate measure of weight. No reason for you not to post! 



Wagtail said:



			I agree. This lady must be very short to only weigh 12 stone and be that size.
		
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She is short.  Funnily enough I just bought a size 20 coat for another short very busty lady last week. The coat's a bit tight and the lady weighs under 10 stone!



lula said:



			you sure your scales are right? 

Click to expand...

Definitely.  Both ladies' weight was confirmed on the doctors' surgery scales.


I'm not meaning to be picky, I'm just showing that manufacturing 20+ size riding clothes isn't really an issue itself. The onus surely is on the rider to make sure they are not too heavy for their horse. The issue is the rider's *weight* not what it says on the label.


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## TrasaM (11 October 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXbH0iFzTP0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

What can happen .......


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

Where are you guys seeing all these videos?  I only saw 3 videos and D2R was only walking in them


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			Where are you guys seeing all these videos?  I only saw 3 videos and D2R was only walking in them 

Click to expand...

She posted one about the the beach ride. Beach looks lovely!


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXbH0iFzTP0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

What can happen .......
		
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My goodness me that mans laugh is infectious!! I couldn't help crumpling up in fits with my fat husband on the floor!!


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## rhino (11 October 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			Where are you guys seeing all these videos?  I only saw 3 videos and D2R was only walking in them 

Click to expand...

There is a video progress page on her blog and lots on her youtube channel


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## FfionWinnie (11 October 2012)

Wagtail said:



			And also frequently using the reins to regain her balance. 

Click to expand...

Incidentally I would agree with this and I would say the same if you weighed 7 stone, you are both landing heavily on the horses backs in canter and hanging onto their mouths.


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## Hollycatt (11 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Of course it's a choice. You don't see any obese folk in famine struck countries do you.
		
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Have you considered they died first from liver problems????????


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## FfionWinnie (11 October 2012)

Hollycatt said:



			Have you considered they died first from liver problems????????
		
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I'm sure some have died from all sorts of problems which is extremely sad however I'm sure you will agree that not all obese people have liver problems making them thus. I do not have any medical problems at all although you could probably say I have an eating disorder if you wanted to be pedantic due to my relationship with food.

All of my family and most of my extended family have weight problems in various stages of control, all caused by over eating no one has any medical problems.  (incidentally my daughter is not over weight and I have encouraged healthy eating habits in her to the enth degree)

I'm sure not everyone with liver problems is obese either.


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

Oops I'm lazy   I only looked at the videos that were staring me in the face, and then only briefly.  Maybe I should retract what I said earlier


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## rhino (11 October 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			Oops I'm lazy   I only looked at the videos that were staring me in the face, and then only briefly.  Maybe I should retract what I said earlier 

Click to expand...

I think she's doing the best she can at the weight and level of fitness that she is. She says on the blog that she struggles to walk her son the few hundred yards to school, or walk her dogs at all, so I can imagine how difficult even basic schooling would be.


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## Big Ben (11 October 2012)

WelshD said:



			I hope to goodness none of them stumble across this thread 

Click to expand...


Well of course we were going to, it's the internet, everything gets found eventually.

I have found this an interesting read, first I do find it funny on so many forums that people attack "them" over there, while defending one of their own, I've seen it so often on COTH, when one of their own admit to a weight issue, the hens spread their collective wings and defend their insider, while still hurling insults over their shoulders at others.

Second, I had to laugh at the comments about FF, and their customer service, I am currently firmly in their target audience, but can't shop there any longer because I am unprofessional in my comments It's the first time that I have ever offered constructive advice to a business, and been told off for acting unprofessionally, as a customer...heck I'm still laughing at that one.

Third........I love it how people take one statement, slightly out of context and keep repeating it, trying to prove what an abusive and mistaken person I am.

I am Golden Horse from the Horseforum, and no actually I don't believe that the lack of a horse staggering means that he is OK with your weight, but by the same context I DO believe that if a horse staggers and re balances itself when you mount, then heck yes you are to heavy for it. So that comment was solely in response to those who deemed that my little Haflinger looked like a good match, she clearly wasn't, she was unhappy with my weight. The spotty guy however, well again as stated in the HoFo thread, he was rock solid when I got on, hence the smile, and again as stated, there was a huge online debate about the pic as to if he was big enough to carry me, and as you can see from the pics, I lost a lot of weight to enjoy him even more.

What you can't see in pics, and always shocked people in real life is just how solid that boy was, he has been sold since and now is with a guy learning to be a rope horse.

Of course any pic posted is going to be discussed, but for those who are being truly spiteful in your comments, I think that reflects more about you, than about the larger riders. I put my story out there, with pride when I lost 140 pounds, with shame when I gained 100 back, it's life it happens. I'm proud of the fact I quit smoking, hang on.....4 years, 8 months 3 days, 22 hours ago, and counting, I'm proud of the fact that I can take or leave a drink now. I'm not proud that I, so far, cannot win the war against this weight, but I am still fighting, and that in itself is a victory.

But for some of you, if the cap fits wear it, remember, that I have been thinner, I will be again, but it's quite possible that you will still be a bitch, unless you try and change


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## dominobrown (11 October 2012)

Well exactly rhino- she doesn't seem to correctly ride downward transitions, but collapses forward. I would recommend becoming a lot fitter before riding, improving core strength to help keep body weight in the correct place throughout transitions, but not putting more weight on the horse's forehand.


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

rhino said:



			I think she's doing the best she can at the weight and level of fitness that she is. She says on the blog that she struggles to walk her son the few hundred yards to school, or walk her dogs at all, so I can imagine how difficult even basic schooling would be.
		
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Oh   I haven't read the blog.  I can't imagine living like that.


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## kerilli (11 October 2012)

I think the point about clothes size not being an accurate guide is very important. I know that so-called 'vanity sizing' caught me out for a while. Of course we all know that there's variation between different sizes in different shops, but I hadn't realised that they've gradually increased the measurements for ALL sizes. A size 10 now is NOT the same as it was years ago. I bet I wasn't the only one who was misled.
I'd always believed that designer clothing was 'vanity sized' (some makes anyway, definitely not Versace!) but then I realised one day that Next (which I'd always taken as a safe benchmark) had gradually changed the measurements on all their clothes. I got up to my heaviest at 11 stone 4 - at the time I was eventing my v big wb lad of 18h + so I didn't die of guilt, but I really didn't like the size of my backside! I kept convincing myself I was ok because I was still a size 12 in Next... hmmmm....
Now I'm a stone lighter (working on that last few pounds, argh) and Next says I'm a size 8-10. No WAY am I a size 8, I honestly doubt my skeleton would be! I'm a 10-12... but my Next jeans are size 8. Crazy.
Re: weight/height. Size 20 at 12 stone is, I'm sorry to say it, pretty much invariably going to be very short with chunky legs. This is NOT the ideal shape for a rider who wants to stay in the saddle... so then we touch a bit on the safety aspect. More likely to fall off, AND going to fall more heavily because of the additional weight.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

Hi Big Ben, welcome and I am sorry you had to be introduced to us in this way. If you look past some of the comments, I think you will find that many have the equines interest at heart, practicality and simple facts. Its just the way of this forum. You should have seen the bashing barefooters/natural horsemanship/cob owners get, now that makes this lot seem tame!!! Really hope you succeed being your ideal weight again so you can enjoy the good life with your equines


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

Exactly Kerilli!  I am now a size 0.  I am sorry but there is no way I am, or ever will be a true size 0.  Before all this resizing nonsense, I was a 8 or 10 size depending on the manufacturer.  So yes, size 20 is no longer size 20, more like 26 or 28 probably.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			Exactly Kerilli!  I am now a size 0.  I am sorry but there is no way I am, or ever will be a true size 0.  Before all this resizing nonsense, I was a 8 or 10 size depending on the manufacturer.  So yes, size 20 is no longer size 20, more like 26 or 28 probably.
		
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Ooh!! You skinny bitch!!! I am going to bully you now. So there !!


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## Hollycatt (11 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			I'm sure some have died from all sorts of problems which is extremely sad however I'm sure you will agree that not all obese people have liver problems making them thus. I do not have any medical problems at all although you could probably say I have an eating disorder if you wanted to be pedantic due to my relationship with food.

All of my family and most of my extended family have weight problems in various stages of control, all caused by over eating no one has any medical problems.  (incidentally my daughter is not over weight and I have encouraged healthy eating habits in her to the enth degree)

I'm sure not everyone with liver problems is obese either.
		
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It was a specific reference to FAMINE and obesity - which you made a specific reference to. One which I felt had little understanding of how starvation affects the body.  The fatter you are, the more likely you are to have hepatic problems with crash dieting/famine. I am not obese but some of my (non riding friends) are - and I feel for them when people without health problems think dieting is as easy as smaller portions and not eating junk food.  

I agree with you that obese people don't necessarily have liver problems. Obese starving people however........................


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## hairycob (11 October 2012)

Re the liver disease - over the many years of my life I have known many people that are obese, as I said earlier some in my own immediate family, but none of them have liver disease. Type 2 diabetes, heart & joint problems arising from being overweight, yes. I've only known a couple of people with liver disease (cancer) & both have had less weight than a piece of paper.


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

Big Ben I was with you, and enjoyed your post, right up to the last paragraph.  Shame.  It has tainted my impression of what sort of person you really are now.


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Ooh!! You skinny bitch!!! I am going to bully you now. So there !! 

Click to expand...

Lol   Go ahead punk ...


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

Is the bitch cap available in ff sizes too I wonder? Only I imagine given their thoughts on slim people  they'll need quite a few. Maybe a new line for md fuller, available in zebra print.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

hairycob said:



			Re the liver disease - over the many years of my life I have known many people that are obese, as I said earlier some in my own immediate family, but none of them have liver disease. Type 2 diabetes, heart & joint problems arising from being overweight, yes. I've only known a couple of people with liver disease (cancer) & both have had less weight than a piece of paper.
		
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Re the liver disease... That comment was about starving people. In Africa I think. It wasn't the cleverest comment but your reply was a little off the point


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## Clava (11 October 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			Big Ben I was with you, and enjoyed your post, right up to the last paragraph.  Shame.  It has tainted my impression of what sort of person you really are now.
		
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Yes.

For me a rider's battle with weight is not the issue, the only issue is whether the horses are suitable mounts for their rider's weight.


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## hairycob (11 October 2012)

Hollycat,

If you go to a poorer country you won't find anywhere near as many obese people as you do in the west even without a famine. Nothing to do with liver disease - just eating less compared to levels of activity


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## Big Ben (11 October 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			Big Ben I was with you, and enjoyed your post, right up to the last paragraph.  Shame.  It has tainted my impression of what sort of person you really are now.
		
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Sorry about that, I was feeling a little (lot) bitchy at that point, I know that it will be hard, but I will try and change that impression.


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

hairycob said:



			Re the liver disease - over the many years of my life I have known many people that are obese, as I said earlier some in my own immediate family, but none of them have liver disease. Type 2 diabetes, heart & joint problems arising from being overweight, yes. I've only known a couple of people with liver disease (cancer) & both have had less weight than a piece of paper.
		
Click to expand...

Same here.  One of my longterm friends is forever battling the weight.  She says she cannot understand why she is so large when she used to be the same size as me a million years ago when we were both teenagers.  I'm not sure why she can't understand it though.  Perhaps she is blinkered to size of portions I eat in comparison to the portions she eats.  That and I don't go back for seconds or thirds.  And even more rare is me eating desserts whilst she lives in pudding heaven, glugging down her mega sized *diet* cokes.  She's quite lovely though.  If only she'd stop trying to make excuses for being fat.  I have incidentally told her she's fat because she eats too much and drinks all that diet coke rubbish.  She just laughed


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## Big Ben (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Hi Big Ben, welcome and I am sorry you had to be introduced to us in this way. If you look past some of the comments, I think you will find that many have the equines interest at heart, practicality and simple facts. Its just the way of this forum. You should have seen the bashing barefooters/natural horsemanship/cob owners get, now that makes this lot seem tame!!! Really hope you succeed being your ideal weight again so you can enjoy the good life with your equines 

Click to expand...

OH, I see now I could of multi quoted 

People bash cob owners?? As an English transplant to Canada, tell me that isn't so

Bare foot, natural horsemanship?? Picks up security blanket and backs slowly and quietly away............


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## Hollycatt (11 October 2012)

hairycob said:



			Hollycat,

If you go to a poorer country you won't find anywhere near as many obese people as you do in the west even without a famine. Nothing to do with liver disease - just eating less compared to levels of activity
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I live in one of these countries so I totally agree with you. But it annoys me when someone with no medical/science background makes statements that all fat people need to do is diet.  Since starvation/famine was specifically mentioned I though I would throw it out there - probably since in nutrition class yesterday we were going over this issue!


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			Sorry about that, I was feeling a little (lot) bitchy at that point, I know that it will be hard, but I will try and change that impression.
		
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Well I've been on this forum on and off for 10 years and I'd say most people on here rarely bear grudges.  Perhaps you just had a moment   that's okay, we all have our moments


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## kerilli (11 October 2012)

Big Ben, thanks for your contribution and for putting a story behind the face and pics.
I'd just like to put one point across though... I don't think a horse staggering or not staggering, bracing or not bracing, is any kind of good indicator of whether it can carry a person without damage.
I've backed quite a lot of horses, all of a good size (16h ish upwards) and age (5 or 6, I delay it because I'm not 7 stone!) and all when I've been 10 stone ish. Some staggered and braced when I first got on, some didn't. It depended on their stance at the time and their individual balance. Some wobbled a bit on the first circles, some strode out like a pro. All were skeletally strong enough and big enough for my weight...
The last time I rode something I was definitely too big for it was a 13.2 kids' pony with serious attitude, bucking kids off for the fun of it. I got on and schooled it because there really wasn't anyone else around who was capable, unfortunately. No way was I the right size (I'm 5'10") or weight (about 10.5 stone then) for that pony, but needs must, a kid was going to end up hurt, so I sorted it. It did not stagger or brace, it carried me just fine for the 20 mins or so it took to reinstall its manners. I would not have kept riding it for the world, even though it SEEMED perfectly happy. My weight would NOT have done its back any good at all, long term...
Just my experience of horses bracing/staggering under my weight, or not...


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			OH, I see now I could of multi quoted 

People bash cob owners?? As an English transplant to Canada, tell me that isn't so

Bare foot, natural horsemanship?? Picks up security blanket and backs slowly and quietly away............
		
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Yup! Some of it is hilarious! Just have a search and prepare for a night of some good reading!! 

Some of the best have been removed... Such a shame, but probs for the best. The forum loves a good bashing, it doesn't really matter what is being bashed. Just join in, it's fine really. As they say, it is full of opinionated.. Um.. What did Suzanne call us again? Whatever, i think she is the other end of the spectrum than what you think is bad in here. Theres CARE behind them there jokes  But in all honesty we are a lovely bunch at heart, it's the mick taking that can get quite personal. I do honestly believe that this is the only place you can have a proper debate with no bias and I have really enjoyed it here and learnt such a lot. I hope you will stay and enjoy it too


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## piebaldsparkle (11 October 2012)

Puppy said:



			I've only watched the 'countdown to XC' and 'Canter on' videos so far, but that horse is not sound behind, I'm afraid 

Click to expand...





Haven't seen those, but seriously hope that intended x-country isn't anytime soon.


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## Mince Pie (11 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Yes, the good old 'fat bashing excuse'. Obviously being overweight means you can't possibly be wrong, cruel or responsible for your own actions, anyone who comments negatively must just be picking on you because of your size. I find that attitude ruder than anything I've said. I judge people as individuals, idiots come in all shapes & sizes, being overweight doesn't entitle you to be excused from wrong. I assume those horrified at so called 'fat bashing' are equally disgusted by the 'skinny bashing' too. Although the general consensus on ff is otherwise. So me possibly offending someone too heavy for their horse isn't on, but causing physical pain to a horse is ok. I'll stick with my own morals thanks. 
Lula- excellent post.
		
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Amen Sista 

In other words, I agree to this post 

Oh, and I may have felt the need to comment on that facebook link


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## flump (11 October 2012)

Kerilli I can't quote but I don't think at 10 stone you would do much damage to a 13.2hh pony...


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## katastrophykat (11 October 2012)

Haha- welcome Big Ben, yes, you have to be brave to post here without pics  

Everyone is bashed equally, so don't worry- just give as good as you get and you'll be fine!!


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## kerilli (11 October 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			Kerilli I can't quote but I don't think at 10 stone you would do much damage to a 13.2hh pony...
		
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Hmm, I was 10.5 stone, + clothes, + tack... prob getting up to 11.5 - 12 stone. I call that a lot for a 13.2 pony. It wasn't a chunky leg-at-each-corner sort, put it that way, it was a quality little thing. Oh, and my feet would prob have touched under its tummy...

anyway, BigBen, I hope you'll stick around, as this is a good place, honestly!


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## Capriole (11 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			People bash cob owners?? As an English transplant to Canada, tell me that isn't so

Click to expand...

Oh yes. Theres a 'Why do people want to have cobs?' thread thats been going  on for years   Occasionally a new forum member stumbles on it and is outraged


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## hairycob (11 October 2012)

Spring Feather you reminded me of a conversation I had on a train journey when I was a student many years ago. I was on the train going back to Uni & a (somewhat large) girl on my course got on at the next station, she joined me & we chatted while we ate our packed teas. Mine was a couple of sarnies, some fruit & a carton of juice. Hers was a pasty, a sausage roll, sarnies, a couple of slices of cake, chocolate biscuits, multiple choc bars & 2 cans of a well known fizzy drink. It stuck in my mind as I was stunned that one person could eat so much in such a short period of time. Several times she complained that she could not understand why she was so large as she only ever picked at food & hardly ate enough to keep a sparrow alive. The sad thing was she had convinced herself this was true.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

Capriole said:



			Oh yes. Theres a 'Why do people want to have cobs?' thread thats been going  on for years   Occasionally a new forum member stumbles on it and is outraged 

Click to expand...

Shall we go and "stumble" on it again...


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## flump (11 October 2012)

Sorry didn't read your post properly and couldn't edit post!


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## Hollycatt (11 October 2012)

Actually I feel I should apologise to FW. I am in a frustrated, unhappy mood today and I should not have commented as I did in a bit of a provocative way. I just do get frustrated seeing my friends end up in hospital from food related issues due to pressure from society and the assumption that fat people are that way as too lazy, can't be bothered to diet etc etc. Some people may be gannets but not all.

However that's no excuse to be a bit mean to someone else. Sorry.


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## lula (11 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Is the bitch cap available in ff sizes too I wonder? Only I imagine given their thoughts on slim people  they'll need quite a few. Maybe a new line for md fuller, available in zebra print.
		
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well pointed out.

strange isnt it how it very rarely seems to work both ways?

when underweight people dare to complain that skinny people are getting -often quite venomous comments levelled our way we get 'if you give it you should expect to receive it' which points to your logic Big Ben being that despite all the screeches of outrage when larger sized people feel criticised, its perfectly fine to be 'a bitch' yourself.

Really, if hypocrisy cost money some people would be bankrupt.


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## Capriole (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Shall we go and "stumble" on it again...
		
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I cant, Ive currently got a cob 

I accidently bred it though, didnt buy it, is my excuse


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

Capriole said:



			I cant, Ive currently got a cob 

I accidently bred it though, didnt buy it, is my excuse 

Click to expand...

Oh I thought that was the point... I'm so thick!


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## FionaM12 (11 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXbH0iFzTP0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

What can happen .......
		
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I just watched this (and yes, that guy's laugh is infectious ).

Off topic I know, but unfortunately I read some of the comments below it, thinking people might be commenting from an animal welfare point of view.  What I saw instead were lots of sickening outragiously racist insults .

And people think there are insults and "bashing" going on here.... Seeing those comments does make me glad that HHO has a decent report and admin system though.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

I never read YouTube comments.

Anyway, on a plus note... Was someone looking for the cob thread?? Talk about the devil.................


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

hairycob said:



			Spring Feather you reminded me of a conversation I had on a train journey when I was a student many years ago. I was on the train going back to Uni & a (somewhat large) girl on my course got on at the next station, she joined me & we chatted while we ate our packed teas. Mine was a couple of sarnies, some fruit & a carton of juice. Hers was a pasty, a sausage roll, sarnies, a couple of slices of cake, chocolate biscuits, multiple choc bars & 2 cans of a well known fizzy drink. It stuck in my mind as I was stunned that one person could eat so much in such a short period of time. Several times she complained that she could not understand why she was so large as she only ever picked at food & hardly ate enough to keep a sparrow alive. The sad thing was she had convinced herself this was true.
		
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It's amazing isn't it.  There's none so blind as those who can't see.  I have no issue with anyones weight, big and fat, thin and skinny, if they're friends, they're friends. End of story.  Just don't try to fob me off with ludicrous stories about how little you (ie they) eat when what you (ie they) eat in one meal is more than I eat in a 2 or 3 days lol


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## rhino (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Shall we go and "stumble" on it again...
		
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Hollycatt I don't see how anyone could possibly take any offence at your posts  

Societal pressure to conform to a particular image is damaging, whether that image is a severely underweight 'ideal' or a severely overweight one.. The MD of FF seems to think it perfectly acceptable to post derogatory pictures and 'jokes' about 'skinnies' and the blatant hypocrisy of that is getting people's backs up.

Then there is the separate issue of what weight is 'fair' for a particular horse.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

Skinney people have feelings too


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## Capriole (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Oh I thought that was the point... I'm so thick!
		
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Nah, that is the point, but I avoid it in my cob-owning shame.


I read some of those comments Fiona, nasty I agree.


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## Mince Pie (11 October 2012)

Just had a nosy at D2R's blog and would like to point out one thing:




			Friday night we&#8217;d had *lasagne and chips* which although was a big portion, I did stop myself part way through. Which left me wanting more.

Even after *toffee yogurt* I was still thinking about food. But I managed to soldier on and not eat anything else that night. Saturday was a bit of a mix up day, we were going to have a sandwich out but actually ended up in a pub. Where despite knowing I had a BBQ later.

I still ordered* scampi and chips*. Followed by *chocolate brownie*, which I did share with The boy. -i didn&#8217;t want to- then saturday night was actually a *hog roast roll with some salads followed by cheesecake*. I have to admit to demolishing this, it was the nicest cheesecake I&#8217;d had in a while.

And then onto sunday, which was brunch of *bacon and cheese baps*. With *pizza and coleslaw* for dinner, I had saved up my treat so I could have* popcorn and chocolate* in front of a film. (I know I shouldn&#8217;t of done this) I had wanted to stop the whole snacking in front of tv or at least make it fruit.

Then after the boy went to bed I had a scout around the kitchen but all I could find was a lollipop, which was horrible. So I settled on one of my *toffee yogurts* with the idea that at least I was having something I enjoyed and hopefully I wouldn&#8217;t go back for more junk.

I managed to stay away, despite feeling hungry and constantly thinking about food. I went to bed reasonably chilled. With a glimmer of hope I would be down a pound today, Nope no such luck.
		
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Hun, you really need to have a look at your diet! This is all fattening food (apart from the fruit but you didn't have that) and you will struggle to lose weight if this is a typical sample of what you eat! I really suggest that you visit a dietician/nutritionist.

ETA: having just watched that video, all of your 23 stone is focused over one small area of  your horse's back as you have squashed yourself into that saddle


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

Broke_But_Happy said:



			ETA: having just watched that video, all of your 23 stone is focused over one small area of  your horse's back as you have squashed yourself into that saddle 

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Which brings us nicely round to the point of this thread.  Some people need a 22 inch saddle ...


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## ester (11 October 2012)

I have been pondering... how are western saddles measured? they always seem to extend further back but not sure if that is the actual panels or not?


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

ester said:



			I have been pondering... how are western saddles measured? they always seem to extend further back but not sure if that is the actual panels or not?
		
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I eluded to this one too,  but not in this thread.

They only look longer because of the skirt but they are pretty much measured exactly the same as ours.


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

Unfortunatly, the horse that can take a 22" saddle & has the confirmation to take 20stone plus is needed before the saddle.


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## Big Ben (11 October 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			Well I've been on this forum on and off for 10 years and I'd say most people on here rarely bear grudges.  Perhaps you just had a moment   that's okay, we all have our moments
		
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Thanks, and also thanks to everyone who has said welcome



katastrophykat said:



			Haha- welcome Big Ben, yes, you have to be brave to post here without pics  

Everyone is bashed equally, so don't worry- just give as good as you get and you'll be fine!!
		
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I will maybe start my own thread, with pics......I have an idea, maybe



Capriole said:



			I cant, Ive currently got a cob 

I accidently bred it though, didnt buy it, is my excuse 

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LOL, well that's OK then, much like my latest saddle that I accidentally won on ebay



Broke_But_Happy said:



			ETA: having just watched that video, all of your 23 stone is focused over one small area of  your horse's back as you have squashed yourself into that saddle 

Click to expand...

Well maybe she needs a bigger saddle......Oh wait.....


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## piebaldsparkle (11 October 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			Which brings us nicely round to the point of this thread.  Some people need a 22 inch saddle ...
		
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Which takes us back to what sort of horse can carry a 22" saddle?   But is a horse has a back soooo long they can carry a 22" saddle, are they up to carrying the weight of a rider who has a butt sooo big they need a 22" saddle...............


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## MrsElle (11 October 2012)

Gosh, what a palaver!

Regarding the 22" saddles.  I very much doubt one will ever be sold.  There are few horses that could accommodate so large a saddle, and any responsible saddle fitter would not fit such a large saddle on a horse just so the rider could fit their backside in it if it didn't fit the horse too.

Regarding people being too fat to ride.  I looked at the US horse forum and while some of the rider/horse combinations were absolutely wrong there were plenty of others that were well suited - the owner had obviously considered their weight and ability and bought a horse to suit.  I have found some comments on this thread a bit near the knuckle and some so hypocritical they made me laugh!  

The opinion in the UK (or perhaps just HHO?) is that anyone who weighs more than 10 stone in weight really shouldn't be riding.  How many threads are there that go along the lines of 'Am I too big for my horse' when the owner weighs 9 stone wet through.  The amount of comments that say the rider is at the top end of the weight for their 15.2 TB makes me laugh, it really does.  Now saying that there is obviously a top weight that a horse can comfortably carry, and that weight is dependant on so many things - the fitness of the horse, the length of back, the bone, the breed, and the ability and balance of the rider.  Also, what is it the rider does with the horse?  I am 14 stone in weight.  I ride a 13.2 Highland.  He is stocky and fit lad with good bone.  I would like to think I am a reasonably balanced rider and all we do together at the moment is hack up the hills in walk.  Due to my weight I wouldn't dream of doing much more, and I am happy being a happy hacker and pootling around admiring the scenery.  We are rarely out for more than an hour at a time and the thought of my galloping accross the beach or jumping the poor lad makes me shudder.  That would be unfair on him.

I admire people who are larger and who actually get off their arses and do something.  The members of the US forum, are not sat in front of the TV all day, at least they are making the effort, and in being more active I bet the weight will start to come off.


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## Mince Pie (11 October 2012)

And to bring things round in circles they type of horse that could actually CARRY a bigger saddle is like rocking horse poo, and those who do will no doubt be conformationally defective and therefore have a WEAK back - would you put 20+ stone on a horse which has already got a weak back?!

I'm not against "heavy" riders but only up to a point. After that you need to put the horse's welfare over you own needs and lose weight so that you can ride!


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## TrasaM (11 October 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			I just watched this (and yes, that guy's laugh is infectious ).

Off topic I know, but unfortunately I read some of the comments below it, thinking people might be commenting from an animal welfare point of view.  What I saw instead were lots of sickening outragiously racist insults .

And people think there are insults and "bashing" going on here.... Seeing those comments does make me glad that HHO has a decent report and admin system though.
		
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Best not to read the comments on YouTube ..advice from my son that


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## Flame_ (11 October 2012)

Maybe FFs need to produce a bigger breed of horse.


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## flump (11 October 2012)

Diet2ride your boy is gorgeous but I really think you should be losing some weight before riding him again. I have 3 thoroughbreds and my weight has gone in the last 3 years 11stobe-16 stone- 13 stone- 14 stone and now I'm fat still! I would love to blame my weight gains on the fact I had a miscarriage but I over ate to compensate my feelings I then lost loads and then put weight back on again and bla bla. I have now decided aged 22 that life's to short I'm trying so hard and am loosing weight (currently back at 14 stone ush) but I have decided to rough mine off over winter and lose another 2 stone before riding again. A lot of people may seem like 'bully's' on here but they are not and have given me the kick up the backside I needed after a horrid time!


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## Spring Feather (11 October 2012)

Hence the ... 

I'm still trying to get my head around what a 22" saddle would even look like.


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## Hollycatt (11 October 2012)

rhino said:





Hollycatt I don't see how anyone could possibly take any offence at your posts  

Societal pressure to conform to a particular image is damaging, whether that image is a severely underweight 'ideal' or a severely overweight one.. The MD of FF seems to think it perfectly acceptable to post derogatory pictures and 'jokes' about 'skinnies' and the blatant hypocrisy of that is getting people's backs up.

Then there is the separate issue of what weight is 'fair' for a particular horse.
		
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Awww - thanks Rhino. I was leting the inner moo-bag roar though   I never looked at the FF site. It is not nice to be mean to anyone - we all have our problems in life. Some can be seen some can't.


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## FionaM12 (11 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			Best not to read the comments on YouTube ..advice from my son that 

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Young people are often wise with things internet-related.


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## ester (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			I eluded to this one too,  but not in this thread.

They only look longer because of the skirt but they are pretty much measured exactly the same as ours.
		
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thank you


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## brighthair (11 October 2012)

Not the point of thread but Capriole, dare I ask how you accidentally bred cob?! I just choked on my tea reading that


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## TrasaM (11 October 2012)

Flame_ said:



			Maybe FFs need to produce a bigger breed of horse. 

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Not bigger .longer


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## Capriole (11 October 2012)

brighthair said:



			Not the point of thread but Capriole, dare I ask how you accidentally bred cob?! I just choked on my tea reading that
		
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Supposed to be Hunter-shaped, not cob shaped, wasnt it  You get what you get...


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## Capriole (11 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			Not bigger .longer 

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Sorted...


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## TrasaM (11 October 2012)

brighthair said:



			Not the point of thread but Capriole, dare I ask how you accidentally bred cob?! I just choked on my tea reading that
		
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What! I though all cobs were accidents. I mean who would go and deliberately breed a horse like that


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## Capriole (11 October 2012)

.


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## TrasaM (11 October 2012)

Capriole said:



			Sorted...







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Oh so funny


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## brighthair (11 October 2012)

Lol at supposed to be hunter shaped. Shorter, fatter and more hair than you wanted then?!


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## Capriole (11 October 2012)

Chest like a bulldog, backside to match. A daft colour as well *sigh*    Shes got a lovely personality though!


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## Wagtail (11 October 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			Diet2ride your boy is gorgeous but I really think you should be losing some weight before riding him again. I have 3 thoroughbreds and my weight has gone in the last 3 years 11stobe-16 stone- 13 stone- 14 stone and now I'm fat still! I would love to blame my weight gains on the fact I had a miscarriage but I over ate to compensate my feelings I then lost loads and then put weight back on again and bla bla. I have now decided aged 22 that life's to short I'm trying so hard and am loosing weight (currently back at 14 stone ush) but I have decided to rough mine off over winter and lose another 2 stone before riding again. A lot of people may seem like 'bully's' on here but they are not and have given me the kick up the backside I needed after a horrid time!
		
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But the thing is, Beans, you have an amazing attitude. Very rare thing that.


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## brighthair (11 October 2012)

Please tell me she's not grey or coloured?! At least you could hunt a cob that hid the mud  

Someone managed to breed my old horse - built like a Section D but with the speed and sharpness of an Arab plus some random breed that's s**t scared of everything thrown in to the mix. It's a wonder I still ride


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## Nicnac (11 October 2012)

Equine equivalent of the Fuller Filly?


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## Capriole (11 October 2012)

brighthair said:



			Please tell me she's not grey or coloured?! At least you could hunt a cob that hid the mud 

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Orange, socks and a blaze, with flaxen. Barbie Cob.


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## FionaM12 (11 October 2012)

Capriole said:



			Orange, socks and a blaze, with flaxen. *Barbie Cob*.
		
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## Big Ben (11 October 2012)

Nicnac said:



			Equine equivalent of the Fuller Filly?






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na, legs are to fine, need tree trunks like mine


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## brighthair (11 October 2012)

Capriole said:



			Orange, socks and a blaze, with flaxen. Barbie Cob.
		
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Snort. No hope  um.... Nope. No ideas


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

Capriole said:



			Chest like a bulldog, backside to match. A daft colour as well *sigh*    Shes got a lovely personality though!
		
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Oh thank god!! You must be sooooo relieved. Every cloud has a silver lining


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## brighthair (11 October 2012)

Although going back to the thread. I am well over the weight limit for riding schools despite being relatively fit. When I say fit I do circuit training, extreme spin and strongman classes. I've had a lesson today, the majority of it in canter with no problems. I am aware of my weight, and what horses I get on, but I tend to find I say "no, I'm too heavy" and people disagree. I'm classed as obese - possibly morbidly obese. That's me riding in my sig, and this was me last week.


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

I have yet to read a single post on hho where anyone, let alone the general consensus is that no-one over 10stone should ride. Seen as its repeatedly stated as the general attitude on hho, perhaps someone can link a few threads where this is stated by the majority?


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## Capriole (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Oh thank god!! You must be sooooo relieved. Every cloud has a silver lining 

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I know right!

(Wanna buy a cob??)


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## Fellewell (11 October 2012)

ester said:



			The solution to the obesity epidemic 

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Only if we can devise a way of making them stay in a bun

"Do you want fries with that?"


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## lula (11 October 2012)

Brighthair- ofcourse you are not too heavy. 
Infact you have a pretty gorgeous figure, very Christina Hendricks


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## brighthair (11 October 2012)

Wagtail said:



			But the thing is, Beans, you have an amazing attitude. Very rare thing that.

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lula said:



			Brighthair- ofcourse you are not too heavy. 
Infact you have a pretty gorgeous figure, very Christina Hendricks 

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Weight is so deceptive. People can be a lot lighter or heavier than you think though. I am just under 5'11


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## brighthair (11 October 2012)

I didn't mean to quote wagtail then. How the hell did I do that?!


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## FionaM12 (11 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			I have yet to read a single post on hho where anyone, let alone the general consensus is that no-one over 10stone should ride. Seen as its repeatedly stated as the general attitude on hho, perhaps someone can link a few threads where this is stated by the majority?
		
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Agree with this. I think it's a rather silly exaggeration. I don't for one minute believe anyone has ever said it. 

I've seen posts where someone said they thought *20*stone was too heavy to ride, but even then not everyone agreed.


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## FionaM12 (11 October 2012)

brighthair said:



			I didn't mean to quote wagtail then. How the hell did I do that?!
		
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You must have accidentally clicked the multiquote option!


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## FfionWinnie (11 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Re the liver disease... That comment was about starving people. In Africa I think. It wasn't the cleverest comment but your reply was a little off the point 

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I did not mention Africa and I was not trying to be clever. 

Are you seriously arguing that people in rich countries aren't generally fat because they eat too much. I am including myself in the "they". 

When I am fat which I have been to the point of obesity on the BMI scale twice I was fat because I ate too much. When I ate less and exercised more. I was thin.  It does't matter why I ate too much the bottom line is that is why I was fat and is the reason why most folk who are fat, are.


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

brighthair said:



			Weight is so deceptive. People can be a lot lighter or heavier than you think though. I am just under 5'11
		
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Yeah I know!! I am like 5'6 and 11 ounces!!


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## tallyho! (11 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			I did not mention Africa and I was not trying to be clever. 

Are you seriously arguing that people in rich countries aren't generally fat because they eat too much. I am including myself in the "they". 

When I am fat which I have been to the point of obesity on the BMI scale twice I was fat because I ate too much. When I ate less and exercised more. I was thin.  It does't matter why I ate too much the bottom line is that is why I was fat and is the reason why most folk who are fat, are.
		
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Erm mm no!! I am so confused right now, I don't even know what you are trying to say.


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## flump (11 October 2012)

Thanku wagtail 

I'd also like to say that a lot of horses won't say when you are to heavy! It took people on here to make me sit back and not kid myself anymore. Most horses are far to honest to tell you your to heavy, I know mine was!


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## FfionWinnie (11 October 2012)

Hollycatt said:



			Actually I feel I should apologise to FW. I am in a frustrated, unhappy mood today and I should not have commented as I did in a bit of a provocative way. I just do get frustrated seeing my friends end up in hospital from food related issues due to pressure from society and the assumption that fat people are that way as too lazy, can't be bothered to diet etc etc. Some people may be gannets but not all.

However that's no excuse to be a bit mean to someone else. Sorry.
		
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No need. 

I wasn't being mean. I have no qualifications other than I have a tendency to over eat. At no time did I mean to suggest starving is the way to go, my point was more that food makes you fat. Less food makes you less fat.  You being the royal you ie me


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## RunToEarth (11 October 2012)

Wow. This thread has shocked me, particularly the link to that absolutely vulgar larger ladies forum - USA really do shock to a whole new level. 

I agree with everything Wagtail has said on this, and I feel that there must be a point where people realise they are too heavy to sit on a horse, over any build.


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## Big Ben (11 October 2012)

Run to Earth, you may want to read your siggy line, and the forum is not vulgar, you are looking at one small sub section of a large and active forum, with subscribers from around the world, nothing is indeed totally black and white, even the question of when are you to big has a large grey area, and often starts "well it depends".


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## Littlelegs (11 October 2012)

There's certainly a grey area around how much an individual horse can carry, it does depend on so many factors, condition, fitness, level of work etc. But I defy anyone with a shred of humanity to defend the right of that woman on dancer on the first page. That's not a grey area, it is very black & white, it simply isn't justifiable for any reasons.


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## FionaM12 (11 October 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			Wow. This thread has shocked me, particularly the link to that absolutely *vulgar* larger ladies forum - USA really do shock to a whole new level.
		
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Big Ben said:



			Run to Earth, you may want to read your siggy line, and the forum is not vulgar, you are looking at one small sub section of a large and active forum, with subscribers from around the world, nothing is indeed totally black and white, even the question of when are you to big has a large grey area, and often starts "well it depends".
		
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I'm puzzled by the word "vulgar" too.  Are you saying the forum is vulgar, or the ladies? 

I think there are some people who are seriously too heavy for their horses on that forum, but I saw no vulgarity.


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## Batgirl (11 October 2012)

kerilli said:



			Hmm, the difference is that alcoholics (and former drug addicts etc) can totally avoid their particular 'poison' - I know some that do, very successfully. They just do not allow themselves near to temptation. But if you are a food addict (the word 'carboholic' has been coined) it is not possible to avoid food for the rest of your life. It becomes a lifelong battle to eat enough to have energy etc but not fall off the cliff and overeat, eat the wrong things (which we are now surrounded with) and yo-yo back up again.
I suspect that 99% of obese people would probably, deep down, just LOVE to wake up one morning in a fit and healthy much lighter body, however much they say they love their size, embrace their curves, feel like a 'real woman' and all that ****. 
Nobody ever said it's easy but it is a choice for most people... very very few can say their weight is 100% down to illness, hormones etc. It took a long time to put on that weight, it takes a long time to get rid of it, and it'll be a daily battle against a body which is convinced that a famine is coming and it needs to hang onto every calorie... 
Other people validating their size, saying 'it's fine to be 20 stone and still ride" might bolster their confidence but it is just NOT fair on the horses, nothing will ever change my mind on that. And the statement on the FF facebook page that there's a horse out there the right size for everyone just makes me want to scream.
		
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this is the most sensible thing posted about weight I ahve seen in a long time and almost the exact words I used when speaking to my doctor, I am T Total, quit smoking but you can't just give up food.  I am active, I need enough energy to ride, play netball, basketball etc.  I have been referred to a dietician to help me start to manage it better, and so will begin a never ending battle with a sweet and savoury tooth but I am under no illusions that it is my own fault.


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## RunToEarth (11 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			Run to Earth, you may want to read your siggy line, and the forum is not vulgar, you are looking at one small sub section of a large and active forum, with subscribers from around the world, nothing is indeed totally black and white, even the question of when are you to big has a large grey area, and often starts "well it depends".
		
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whilst I agree nothing is black and white, I maintain that there is a point where your weight should refrain you from mounting an animal who cannot always outwardly display the pain it feels. I understand a person's weight is difficult to control however I feel that when a person's excess fat is being caught in tack, that is a clear statement in itself. 

Your balance and riding ability have a great deal to do with your fitness, I simply feel the women in the link posted had very little judging by their seats and their size. 

With regards to my vulgar comment, I was referring to their attitude not their appearance, I am not that rude. Perhaps vulgar was the wrong word, I just cannot understand why you would get on a horse at that size.


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## MoonMagic (11 October 2012)

Geez I wrote a huge response and lost it cause the forum logged me out! Argh! Ok lets try this again! 

I have read this whole post and while many of you seem to have genuine concern for the horses, some of the responses were just awful. Saying things like "The horse was probably afraid it was going to get eaten" is just insensitive and bullying. Just because someone is heavy it doesn't make them any less of a person, and it does not make you better then them. 

That said.. Hello! My name is Kylie. Am I overweight? I sure as heck am! Am I happy about it? Of course I'm not, I HATE it. Am I trying to do something about it? Of course I am. But being overweight is not going to keep me from doing the one thing I love most in the world, riding! 

About 6 years ago I weighed about 200lbs (I'm tall (6'0) and big boned and the ideal weight for my size is 180). 4 years ago I weighed 260, I gained a lot of weight my first 2 years of college. 3 years ago I was down to 240 and then I hurt my back. I herniated 2 discs and chipped a disc, and had to have surgery to remove bone chips that were pinching nerves. After the surgery I couldn't do much of anything for about 6 months, couldn't start riding again for a year. After the first 6 months I started 6 months of light physical therapy. I PACKED on weight that year and got to the heaviest I EVER was, a whopping 325lbs. Right now I'm down to about 275, but it's a struggle because of my back. But I am trying.

I have an 8 year old Percheron/Thoroughbred mare named Amber, who I got literally a month before I ended up having surgery. She has been vetted by 3 different vets and is sound as sound can be, she gets regular chiropractic adjustments, and even at my heaviest I was given the ok to ride her by the vets, chiropractors and my trainer at the time. I do everything to ensure that she is comfortable. I bought a custom fit Bevel saddle for her. I only ride 3-4x a week, and never ride for over an hour, 20 minutes of which is walking. I will not jump her over 2' until I get down to 240 (it gives me a goal) and right now only jump once a week or every other week for 20 minutes. My trainer rider her 2x a week and when I can't ride, to ensure that she stays in fit shape. I bend over backwards to make sure that Amber is happy, healthy and comfortable. 

I am absolutely not ashamed about posting pictures on here so here you go. 

2 years ago when I was at my heaviest 325






A few months after that






Christmas 2011 show






and 2 months ago at about 280 in that picture







I guess the whole point of this post was to say that yes, there are those out there who jump on a horse without taking into account the fact that they might be to heavy, but most of the plus sized riders I have met are like me and do everything in their power to ensure that their horse is happy and comfortable!


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## FionaM12 (11 October 2012)

Welcome, Moonmagic. 

Yours is a very fair and honest post, good luck with your weight loss. I agree a few people can't help but have a giggle and poke fun about weight issues, which is unkind and unacceptable. Fortunately I think most here are not like that.


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## Littlelegs (12 October 2012)

you certainly shouldn't feel ashamed of your size moon magic. But I don't agree with riding that horse. You say you wouldn't let your weight stop your love of riding, fair enough, it shouldn't do permanently. But I'm not going to let being pc get in the way of my love of horses, & agree its ok to ask them to carry more than they should.


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## piebaldsparkle (12 October 2012)

MoonMagic said:



			I will not jump her over 2' until I get down to 240 (it gives me a goal) and right now only jump once a week or every other week for 20 minutes.!
		
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I'm sorry but if you had any respect for you horse you definitely would not be jumping her at your current weight (275lbs).


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## tallyho! (12 October 2012)

Moonmagic, welcome! What a lovely horse you have! Sorry to hear about the awful back problems you have had and now that you are mended and back riding again, I'm sending you loads of motivation vibes to get you to your target weight . It's great that you do everything to make your horse happy and comfortable and you know you owe it to yourself to be happy and comfortable too. Hope you carry on posting to keep us posted with progress


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## imr (12 October 2012)

Broke_But_Happy said:



			Just had a nosy at D2R's blog and would like to point out one thing:

Quote:
Friday night wed had lasagne and chips which although was a big portion, I did stop myself part way through. Which left me wanting more.

Even after toffee yogurt I was still thinking about food. But I managed to soldier on and not eat anything else that night. Saturday was a bit of a mix up day, we were going to have a sandwich out but actually ended up in a pub. Where despite knowing I had a BBQ later.

I still ordered scampi and chips. Followed by chocolate brownie, which I did share with The boy. -i didnt want to- then saturday night was actually a hog roast roll with some salads followed by cheesecake. I have to admit to demolishing this, it was the nicest cheesecake Id had in a while.

And then onto sunday, which was brunch of bacon and cheese baps. With pizza and coleslaw for dinner, I had saved up my treat so I could have popcorn and chocolate in front of a film. (I know I shouldnt of done this) I had wanted to stop the whole snacking in front of tv or at least make it fruit.

Then after the boy went to bed I had a scout around the kitchen but all I could find was a lollipop, which was horrible. So I settled on one of my toffee yogurts with the idea that at least I was having something I enjoyed and hopefully I wouldnt go back for more junk.

I managed to stay away, despite feeling hungry and constantly thinking about food. I went to bed reasonably chilled. With a glimmer of hope I would be down a pound today, Nope no such luck.  


Hun, you really need to have a look at your diet! This is all fattening food (apart from the fruit but you didn't have that) and you will struggle to lose weight if this is a typical sample of what you eat! I really suggest that you visit a dietician/nutritionist.

ETA: having just watched that video, all of your 23 stone is focused over one small area of  your horse's back as you have squashed yourself into that saddle 

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I have to echo this. Honestly, D2R, I struggle with my weight but eating like this you do not stand a chance. Pretty much everything you have described here is high fat and high carbohydrate, and basically diet hell. To lose a pound you (rough calcs here) you need to use about 3500 calories that you havent eaten, which means, assuming your daily calorific requirement is 2000 calories that you need about 1500 calories a day to lose a pound a week. That is essentially incompatible with eating what you have set out above, unless they are the teeniest, tiniest portions, which will leave you screaming hungry. Take your sunday, bacon and cheese baps are quite likely around 500 calories each, and the pizza around 900, coleslaw may sound healthy but its full of mayonnaise so you probably had a good 300 calories there. Now these are rough calcs and everyone is different (a lot of people don't need 2000 calories for starters), and protein calories are harder to digest than carbs so not all calories are equal. A nutritionist can tell you what is right for you, and design a regime that will help you - it seems to me that half the problem is you don't know what is good or bad. Honestly, I'm dieting right now and after two weeks I can now nearly do up my black escada suit which means I have reduced in size - YAYY - believe me what I eat looks nothing like your list! Try grilling a piece of salmon with a big bunch of asparagus and peppers for example and have that for dinner. If you want a treat, then try something like a french fancy (one!) - they have 106 calories in them so not that bad and it will give you a sweet taste that might stop you eating tons of something worse.


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## Puppy (12 October 2012)

I can't believe that they have banned elanorg from the other site for trying to get them to see sense.


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## rhino (12 October 2012)

Puppy said:



			I can't believe that they have banned elanorg from the other site for trying to get them to see sense.
		
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Same as FF deleting (polite) comments on their page if they don't happen to agree with their completely blinkered views. At least Suzanne is happy to admit she doesn't believe in 'Freedom of speech' 

The obesity problem is NOT going to go away. You can make clothes and tack as large as you like, but it is NOT healthy and WILL have a negative effect on (a) your horseriding ability, and (b) your horse.


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

Elanorg is on time out, not banned for ever, and maybe they will come up with a more constructive way of putting their point of view over, because their current approach isn't going to win anyone over.

Oh and a lot of us have spent time on the "naughty bench" and now try and make our points a little more subtly


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## burtie (12 October 2012)

Wow, this has got to one of the biggest threads on H and H for a long time........


I'll get my coat now


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## Wagtail (12 October 2012)

Diet2ride if you are still reading this, I notice that your horse, Nas is 15.3 hh. He's about the same build as my 15.3 chuncky warmblood. Her ideal weight (that she is now) is 530 kg. At her heaviest, she was 600kg! Even if Naz'z ideal weight was 600 kg, then you are 27% of his weight with tack. That is far too heavy. At most you should be 19 stone including tack, and so that is 17 stone without clothes and tack. Less if Naz would be overweight at 600 kg which I think he would be. At the moment it is the equivalent of your running around with over six stone in a ruck sack.

Echo what others have said regarding your eating. Your calories are far too high. You say your name is diet2ride, why don't you live up to that? Set a target weight and just keep Naz fit with ground work until you reach it. Your reward can be riding when you reach your target weight.


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

Even if we go with the 20% rule as being set in stone, and I don't think it is the be all and end all, then is that 20% to sit on, walk around for half an hour, spend a day going cross country, training and riding in low level dressage tests?

That rule does not take into consideration bone density, conformation, sort of saddle used, and any other variation. It's a guide line, somewhere to start from but not the bible.

As ever the horse is the decider, not defending or attacking anyone here, but certain breeds of horse are better at weight carrying, they are just built for it.


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## Mongoose11 (12 October 2012)

Even if the 20% 'rule' was to be used as a guide and not a bible do we really think that 7 or 8 % above that is a fair tolerance? Unikely!


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## Mongoose11 (12 October 2012)

Big Ben. I agree that it depends on bone, conformation, type etc BUT despite all of these factors there comes a time when a person becomes too heavy to sit on an animal and no 'type' of saddle or measurement of bone can touch the fact that the person should not get on their horse, surely?


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## Wagtail (12 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			Even if we go with the 20% rule as being set in stone, and I don't think it is the be all and end all, then is that 20% to sit on, walk around for half an hour, spend a day going cross country, training and riding in low level dressage tests?

That rule does not take into consideration bone density, conformation, sort of saddle used, and any other variation. It's a guide line, somewhere to start from but not the bible.

As ever the horse is the decider, not defending or attacking anyone here, but certain breeds of horse are better at weight carrying, they are just built for it.
		
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Indeed. I had a 17.3 hh pure Irish draft gelding. He weighted in at 850 kg. He was very tall for an Irish Draft. But he really struggled with a 16 stone sharer I had for him. Yet my smaller 15.3 mare carried her easily. However, I would not have allowed her to ride her for more than 20 minutes as I am sure that even though she looked fine, she is quite long backed and it would have caused her problems.


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## Wagtail (12 October 2012)

It also has to be considered, the temperament of every horse. Some horses are extremely honest and stoicle and will not let you know if they are struggling until it is too late.


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## Goldenstar (12 October 2012)

The conformation of a horses back is key if thehorses is to be a wieght carrier, I have seen huge big but weak in the back horses bought for largish men to hunt and they struggle  if they have not got correctly muscled backs.
On paper a 17 hand Irish draught should carry a big man but it's just not as simple as that.
My OH has had some quite small horses but as long as their backs are a good and easy to muscle shape they are fine we had one big heavily boned Irish horse who was very weak and hollow when he arrived it took a year to get  him into the right shape to do his job.


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Big Ben. I agree that it depends on bone, conformation, type etc BUT despite all of these factors there comes a time when a person becomes too heavy to sit on an animal and no 'type' of saddle or measurement of bone can touch the fact that the person should not get on their horse, surely?
		
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Oh yes, there has to be a cut off point, but the grey area is huge. I think my biggest issue is that people believe they can take a look at one picture of someone riding and tell the whole story about the horse, it's way of going, and that the rider is to big.

I have far more faith in a trainer who is there, seeing the whole picture, they need to be honest with the rider. Those who are consulting with vet, chiro and any other professional, well I hope that those people are looking out for the welfare of the horse, and will be honest with the owner. They do make assessments based on more than a snapshot. I bet even riders who are well below the 20% mark can post a pic where their horse is not tracking up, looks pissy or uncomfortable, just the way it is.


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## DH1 (12 October 2012)

Goldenstar said:



			The conformation of a horses back is key if thehorses is to be a wieght carrier, I have seen huge big but weak in the back horses bought for largish men to hunt and they struggle  if they have not got correctly muscled backs.
On paper a 17 hand Irish draught should carry a big man but it's just not as simple as that.
My OH has had some quite small horses but as long as their backs are a good and easy to muscle shape they are fine we had one big heavily boned Irish horse who was very weak and hollow when he arrived it took a year to get  him into the right shape to do his job.
		
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Couldn't have put it better myself
I have a 15.2 Arab X Hanoverian mare who, on paper, should be able to carry a rider of reasonable weight. However, she is short backed. 
My friend weighed just over 13 stone and unfortunately my mare was not able to carry her weight, she virtually sat down when mounted. I had all the checks done, but nothing was revealed.

My friend desperately wanted to ride her, so she decided to lose weight, so that she could. She lost 5 stones in total


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

DH1 said:



			Couldn't have put it better myself
I have a 15.2 Arab X Hanoverian mare who, on paper, should be able to carry a rider of reasonable weight. However, she is short backed.
		
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 I thought short backed was better than long from the point of view of weight carrying?



DH1 said:



			My friend weighed just over 13 stone and unfortunately my mare was not able to carry her weight, she virtually sat down when mounted. I had all the checks done, but nothing was revealed.

My friend desperately wanted to ride her, so she decided to lose weight, so that she could. She lost 5 stones in total

Click to expand...

Hang on doing the math here.......13 x 14 = 182 pounds 

OK question, is this horse and rider pair OK


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## ester (12 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



 I thought short backed was better than long from the point of view of weight carrying?
		
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it is but they then can't take a 22" saddle (much as I hate to go back the original point of a post!)


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## Clava (12 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			Oh yes, there has to be a cut off point, but the grey area is huge. I think my biggest issue is that people believe they can take a look at one picture of someone riding and tell the whole story about the horse, it's way of going, and that the rider is to big.
.
		
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In some cases one look at a picture is enough, when saddles are swamped and riders look huge on them. The grey area for many horses coping (when the rider is over 20% ) isn't that large, with the exceptions being particular breeds such as fells, highlands and icelandics that have exceptional weight carrying ability for their size.


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

ester said:



			it is but they then can't take a 22" saddle (much as I hate to go back the original point of a post!) 

Click to expand...


LOL, how dare you go back on topic, Mmmm Topic haven't seen one of those in years


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## Anglebracket (12 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Diet2ride.  I've been fat. Of course it's a choice. You don't see any obese folk in famine struck countries do you. The choice is eat less, weigh less, it doesn't matter what medical condition or what tablets you are on, it is a basic fact that if energy in exceeds energy out you will gain weight.
		
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How can it be a choice?  Who would choose to become morbidly obese? Obesity is a complex problem with many contributing factors, including the easy availability of fast food, inability to cook a meal, not having time to cook a meal, medical conditions, emotional eating, etc. Lack of self-control probably plays a part for some, but I don't think that calling people lazy and blaming them will change a thing. In fact I believe that this can have the opposite effect and make things worse. After all, if your main source of comfort is food and you are being insulted and ridiculed what are you likely to do next?

I know that people are different and react in different ways but I don't see how making fun of people will change their behaviour. Feedback politely put is far more likely to have an effect and stop people who (at least for the time being) should not be riding their horses from doing so.


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## tallyho! (12 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			Even if we go with the 20% rule as being set in stone, and I don't think it is the be all and end all, then is that 20% to sit on, walk around for half an hour, spend a day going cross country, training and riding in low level dressage tests?

That rule does not take into consideration bone density, conformation, sort of saddle used, and any other variation. It's a guide line, somewhere to start from but not the bible.

As ever the horse is the decider, not defending or attacking anyone here, but certain breeds of horse are better at weight carrying, they are just built for it.
		
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The horse is definitely the decider I agree with that. What I have to disagree with here is that this 20% rule shouldn't be used as the 'limiter' whereby people who *could* weigh less use it as a buffer to hover at the horses max limit (people I know personally do this). I don't think thats fair considering the horse didn't evolve especially to be man's transport.

Why don't people who know they are overweight aim to be _less_ than 20% instead of _"as long as I stay 20% I'm ok"_. This isn't healthy for anybody, and I am not digging at you personally here but everyone who diets to ride.

We all know horses pushed to the limits break down and I'm not comparing the hard working horse to the 20min/day horse. However, why limit yourself to just 20mins of riding a day? You could be out there for hours. Using your good self as an example, you ride good, and have a good position and this is good for the horse so why have you only given yourself 20mins? The power is yours! Take it! Do what you have to do change this unfairness to yourself and be happy riding your horse all afternoon!


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## joeanne (12 October 2012)

MoonMagic said:



			but most of the plus sized riders I have met are like me and do everything in their power to ensure that their horse is happy and comfortable!
		
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Except perhaps staying off said horse until they have achieved a weight that is acceptable for said horse to carry.

Justifying that the horse is sound, does not buck, and is happy does not actually make it right that you are placing more weight than it ought to carry.


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## Tnavas (12 October 2012)

To All you STICK INSECTS that sit there and preach about us hevy peolpe losing weight - I so hope that one day you too suffer the increase in weight.

Because believe me for many of you it will sneak in and one dday you'll realise how hard it is to lose weight.

I once was a stick insect - 7½stone at 25yrs old and 5'7" tall.

Your metabolism changes with age, work circumstances, the effects of injuries, Glandular Fever screwed mine up - and try as I might keeping the weight off is seriously hard.

I wonder how many of you that are preaching are smokers? Find it hard to give up and stop? It's like that for us too and we don't get the support that Smokers get in their quest for giving up. 

I actually don't eat much at all - breakfast is a meal replacer but I metabolise any food I eat well therefore like my Clydesdale I keep weight on really easily.

I've been quite shocked at the bitchy, holier than thouogh comments made on this thread.

A the saying goes - "What comes around goes around and hopefully will bite you hard on your increasingly expanding bum" then you too will know what it is like.


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## hessy12 (12 October 2012)

chrisritch said:



http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/314392.html


Fuller Fillies are now making saddles up to 22 inch seat. I'm sorry but if you know you are a heavy person then you ought to know you are too heavy to ride. 

When your arse sticks out wider than the horses, you know you have issues.
		
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This made me laugh and laugh. Being a skinny I don't have any problems in this area thank goodness. However, surely if the horse is 'big enough' to carry said rider and has a wide enough back to take wide saddle, then what's the problem? Just MHO.


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## Clava (12 October 2012)

hessy12 said:



			This made me laugh and laugh. Being a skinny I don't have any problems in this area thank goodness. However, surely if the horse is 'big enough' to carry said rider and has a wide enough back to take wide saddle, then what's the problem? Just MHO.
		
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...the problem is the length of the saddle not the width.


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## touchstone (12 October 2012)

Tnavas said:



			To All you STICK INSECTS that sit there and preach about us hevy peolpe losing weight - I so hope that one day you too suffer the increase in weight.

Because believe me for many of you it will sneak in and one dday you'll realise how hard it is to lose weight.

I once was a stick insect - 7½stone at 25yrs old and 5'7" tall.

Your metabolism changes with age, work circumstances, the effects of injuries, Glandular Fever screwed mine up - and try as I might keeping the weight off is seriously hard.

I wonder how many of you that are preaching are smokers? Find it hard to give up and stop? It's like that for us too and we don't get the support that Smokers get in their quest for giving up. 

I actually don't eat much at all - breakfast is a meal replacer but I metabolise any food I eat well therefore like my Clydesdale I keep weight on really easily.

I've been quite shocked at the bitchy, holier than thouogh comments made on this thread.

A the saying goes - "What comes around goes around and hopefully will bite you hard on your increasingly expanding bum" then you too will know what it is like.
		
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I don't think anyone has said that losing weight is easy, I'm 47 and have to admit that the days when I could eat what I wanted to are sadly gone, I have gone from a size 8-10 to 12-14 so I do understand how weight can creep on.  My mum is also on high dose steroids, she initially gained some weight but has managed to actually lose weight and is down to a size 8.  It is hard, but it is doable!

The issue isn't people  being overweight, but inflicting that weight on horses who are not built for carrying the amounts of weight.   If you want to ride badly enough then there should be no better incentive to lose weight, to simply accept that an individual is grossly overweight but is going to ride regardless because they want to while making no attempt to lose weight isn't fair on the horse imho.


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## DH1 (12 October 2012)

Tnavas, as a 'stick insect' I am equally offended by your 'holier than thou' comments.

I am a 49 year old stick insect, I weigh the same now as I did when I was 17 years old. I've been through many different life changing events during the intervening years.

Maintaining this weight isn't a miracle,  it's fairly simple really.
I put on a couple of pounds, eat healthily, and then lose said couple of pounds.


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## FfionWinnie (12 October 2012)

Tnavas said:



			To All you STICK INSECTS that sit there and preach about us hevy peolpe losing weight - I so hope that one day you too suffer the increase in weight.

Because believe me for many of you it will sneak in and one dday you'll realise how hard it is to lose weight.

I've been quite shocked at the bitchy, holier than thouogh comments made on this thread.

A the saying goes - "What comes around goes around and hopefully will bite you hard on your increasingly expanding bum" then you too will know what it is like.
		
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No doubt you are including me in that. I however wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.


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## Equilibrium Ireland (12 October 2012)

I come from a family of morbidly obese people. Not my dad but my aunts especially. Their kids are morbidly obese. One of my aunts has to be a medical marvel being close to 70 and MO. I guess I could blame my genes if I was the same. I'm not fat nor do I follow diets. I can always tell when I'm getting heavier than I like and I start running. A physical job helps a lot. Won't deny that. I'm also lucky not to be on medications that could wreck havoc on my weight. But as far as the members of my family, maybe they don't choose to be MO, but they sure didn't choose to not be MO. All the help they've been given didn't make a difference because it was easier not make the changes. Maybe that sounds harsh but they've not made the effort to stay healthy. Staying somewhat healthy is an effort. Let's be honest, for most, not all, it is the effort of keeping moving and eating less. Diets are usually no good as it's not keeping weight off for good. It's an entire lifestyle.

As far as horses are concerned mine are probably at a disadvantage for carrying weight. I weigh 8 stone. Hubby is probably 12 stone. From a personal preference I wouldn't want much more on their backs as a constant. I know they could carry more but it's my choice. 

Terri


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## rhino (12 October 2012)

Tnavas said:



			To All you STICK INSECTS
		
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Tnavas said:



			I've been quite shocked at the bitchy comments made on this thread.
		
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What, like yours? Again, it only seems to be 'bullying' if comments are made about overweight people. Hypocritical much? 



Tnavas said:



			A the saying goes - "What comes around goes around and hopefully will bite you hard on your increasingly expanding bum" then you too will know what it is like.
		
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Well aren't you just a charmer!

To the earlier comment about trusting trainers - I only wish it were true. I can't think of many who would turn down custom by saying that a potential client was too overweight to ride.


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## Mongoose11 (12 October 2012)

Tnavas said:



			To All you STICK INSECTS that sit there and preach about us hevy peolpe losing weight.
		
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I love how hypocritical this is. You are complaining about bitchy coments? Is calling someone a 'STICK INSECT' not the same as someone calling someone a 'fat bit*h'.

However miserable I am about my weight I certainly wouldn't want anyone to ever feel this sad. Not nice to wish misery on others. Did you really mean that?


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## ClobellsandBaubles (12 October 2012)

The obesity epidemic and peoples difficulty losing weight is not just about eating to much and doing too little it is far more complex than that. Our entire culture has created the situation we now find ourselves in and by perpetuating the myth that it is the individuals fault is not going to change it one iota. 
The food industry etc. are only perpetuating the situation in order to keep the money flowing. Food is more addictive than ever, what we eat is more processed  full of salt and sugar, portions are bigger, snacking has increased, cloth sizes have got bigger, the diet advice is mostly rubbish and everything is made so much easier and more comfortable for us.
Just telling people to eat less and do more is not going to help the individual or change the way the tide is going. The current generation is obese and yet malnourished!


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## Tnavas (12 October 2012)

Well Rhino and Billie1007 - you make me laugh - now you see what it is like when people make snide comments about your weight! You don't like it any more than we do.

It's sociably acceptable to look like you need a decent meal but for us cuddlies we are frowned upon. 

I've battled depression for many years - the medication I've been on has contributed to my weight gain. We aren't all overweight because we eat too much! 

Life is not fun for us - travelling on public transport is a nightmare as the seats are built for skinnies. I haven't been back to UK for many years because the journey in the cramped area is too uncomfortable and I don't have the money to travel business class. I miss my mum and would love to be able to see her as she is really getting on in years.

So before you judge you need to know the history.


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

DH1 said:



			Maintaining this weight isn't a miracle,  it's fairly simple really.
I put on a couple of pounds, eat healthily, and then lose said couple of pounds.
		
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No NO *NO* *NO*

If it were* simple* then there would be no (or very few fat people)

For some people it is that simple, but not for all of us.

I look out of my window at 3 horses who have been kept together all summer, Ben is at a good weight, Emmy is FAT, Willow is just about right, if I still had the Haflingers and they were out there they would be obese.

We are all quite happy talking about easy keepers and hard keepers when we are talking horses, but can't make the leap that realizes that the same is largely true of people.

FACT 1.

I am built like a draft horse, and that has nothing to do with the fat that I carry, I am solid, hairy, even when I'm slim I have size 9 (UK) feet. That is not a "poor me" or anything else, it is a fact, I am not delicate.

Fact 2

I am a marvel of millions of years of evolution, come the famine I will survive a lot longer than all of the 'naturally skinny' because I get full value out of each and every calorie that I eat.

So no it is not simple, you have no idea what level I have to eat and exercise at to lose weight, same as I have no idea what my very skinny friend has to go through to maintain weight, or try and gain. I am constantly amazed at how much she eats, same as she is at how little I eat.


Yes of course when it comes down to it the responsibility for what we eat ad how much we exercise is down to each of us, and I'm not asking anyone to condone my fatness, just asking that same as our horses, one diet, one regime will not produce the same results for all.


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## joeanne (12 October 2012)

Tnavas said:



			It's sociably acceptable to look like you need a decent meal but for us cuddlies we are frowned upon. 

I've battled depression for many years - the medication I've been on has contributed to my weight gain. We aren't all overweight because we eat too much!
		
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If you are putting on weight, I would offer the suggestion that you are eating more calories than your body needs.
Yes some drugs WILL make you put weight on, but you can CHOOSE to not inflict that excess weight  on a horse.

I quit smoking, I gained a couple of stone. I am losing it buy not eating junk, eating sensibly (read that as no cakes, sweets,sugar) and exercising.
Simple as.
And I would also offer the suggestion YOUR idea of a "good meal" and mine are poles apart!


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## Mongoose11 (12 October 2012)

Tnavas said:



			Well Rhino and Billie1007 - you make me laugh - now you see what it is like when people make snide comments about your weight! You don't like it any more than we do.

It's sociably acceptable to look like you need a decent meal but for us cuddlies we are frowned upon. 

I've battled depression for many years - the medication I've been on has contributed to my weight gain. We aren't all overweight because we eat too much! 

Life is not fun for us - travelling on public transport is a nightmare as the seats are built for skinnies. I haven't been back to UK for many years because the journey in the cramped area is too uncomfortable and I don't have the money to travel business class. I miss my mum and would love to be able to see her as she is really getting on in years.

So before you judge you need to know the history.
		
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Joke's on you Tnavas. If you bothered to read the thread you would find out that I am morbidly obese and have just made the decision to stop riding my mare as I am almost at the 20% figure. So I definitely know what it is like to be 'cuddly' although I prefer the term morbidly obese.

Oh and I definitely got to 17 stone by eating too much. My depression is a by product/stimulus all rolled into one but the weight is definitely due to stuffing my face. What a rose tinted world you live in. Check out my original post around page 40-42 if you want to find out my credentials 

I have managed to put across both sides of the story without insulting anyone or name calling....


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## Wagtail (12 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			No NO *NO* *NO*

If it were* simple* then there would be no (or very few fat people)

For some people it is that simple, but not for all of us.

I look out of my window at 3 horses who have been kept together all summer, Ben is at a good weight, Emmy is FAT, Willow is just about right, if I still had the Haflingers and they were out there they would be obese.

We are all quite happy talking about easy keepers and hard keepers when we are talking horses, but can't make the leap that realizes that the same is largely true of people. They are also much faster eaters!
		
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Regarding animals, I have two jack russell terriers who are full sisters out of the same litter. One is fat, the other is thin. The difference? The fat one is there the second she hears anyone open any food packet. She begs and begs for food constantly. Her sister can take it or leave it. She is more active. Sometimes she doesn't want her dinner.

I have seven horses here. Four are easy to keep trim, three are very difficult to keep trim. The good doers are FAR more food oriented than the poorer doers.


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## rhino (12 October 2012)

Tnavas said:



			Well Rhino and Billie1007 - you make me laugh - now you see what it is like when people make snide comments about your weight! You don't like it any more than we do.

It's sociably acceptable to look like you need a decent meal but for us cuddlies we are frowned upon. 


So before you judge you need to know the history.
		
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Stupid little comments and names like the ones you used don't bother me in the slightest - just pointing out the hypocrisy as you seem to have a difficulty in registering the concept.

I would also disagree that it is sociably (do you mean socially perhaps? Or societally?) acceptable to look like you need a decent meal.

I've never judged someone because of their weight. Unlike others


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## Littlelegs (12 October 2012)

It's all very well talking about 'grey' areas, but where animals are concerned I always err on the side of caution. Whether that's rider weight, ill health, living conditions, pts or anything, they don't have a voice to tell us when they've reached their limits. Therefore if we claim to be animal lovers, we shouldn't be trying to find those limits, instead staying well within what we definitely know they can manage. 
  Tbh, stick insect etc doesn't actually bother me, what's amusing is the hypocrisy. At least my disgust is only for those riding horses incapable of carrying them, not general insults aimed at anyone who struggles with their weight.


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## Wagtail (12 October 2012)

A while back I made a post about a medical condition I have which means that I am nauseous for much of the day and found it hard to eat. Not surprisingly I was pretty skinny. The pills I have been put on have given me a ravenous appetite for carbs and sugar. For the first time in my life I could appreciate what it must be like for people who have a problem with their weight due to over eating. I literally could not stop. I piled on the weight and could not fit into my jods and for the first time in my life had rolls of fat. I hated it. Tried to come off the tablets only to find my nausea was worse, so I'm stuck with them, probably for life. I knew I had to put a stop to the weight gain. I knew I could not resist carbs and sweet stuff if it was in the house. My solution was to only buy food online and not order anything that was unhealthy and fattening. Today I went into a supermarket for the first time in 6 months. It was SO hard not to buy chocolates and biscuits. It almost hurt. But I resisted, until I got to the till and then grabbed a bag of skittles. Well it could have been worse!


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

Wagtail said:



			Regarding animals, I have two jack russell terriers who are full sisters out of the same litter. One is fat, the other is thin. The difference? The fat one is there the second she hears anyone open any food packet. She begs and begs for food constantly. Her sister can take it or leave it. She is more active. Sometimes she doesn't want her dinner.

I have seven horses here. Four are easy to keep trim, three are very difficult to keep trim. The good doers are FAR more food oriented than the poorer doers.
		
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Funny that, without the power of advertising, without the variety of cakes cookies, crisps, fried food etc etc, some animals struggle with their weight, and they need someone to control their portion sizes, make them exercise, like errr naturally fat and needing help?


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## Flame_ (12 October 2012)

Anglebracket said:



			How can it be a choice?  Who would choose to become morbidly obese? Obesity is a complex problem with many contributing factors, including the easy availability of fast food you can choose a low fat, low calorie option, even McD's print their nutritional information now, inability to cook a meal you can choose to read recipe books, go to cookery classes, order diet chef, not having time to cook a meal you can eat raw carrots and fruit, medical conditions these don't cause fat in themselves, they just mean you need to be even more aware of what you can be eating and/or not give in to increased appetite, emotional eating you can choose to go for councelling, etc.
		
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It is a problem with many solutions and you can choose to commit to finding the appropriate one or ones or you can choose to sit and say "well I've got a problem and there's nothing I can do about it", which, with obesity is simply not true.

The overweight posters on this thread are clearly made of strong stuff and I'm sure they know beating this problem is within their capabilities and its only a matter of time and finding the right approach before they are the weight they want to be.


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## Wagtail (12 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			Funny that, without the power of advertising, without the variety of cakes cookies, crisps, fried food etc etc, some animals struggle with their weight, and they need someone to control their portion sizes, make them exercise, like errr naturally fat and needing help?
		
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Yes, exactly. It is behavioural, not down to genes or glands or anything else. Some people are foodies, some animals are foodies. We have to find a way that works to control it. I am not kidding, I would be enormous by now had I not taken control. I can no longer be trusted in a supermarket. I have to order online.


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## Natch (12 October 2012)

Choice is good. I think a person needs to have to really want to lose weight, they have to CHOOSE to do so, to be successful. But to simplify it into a simple choice is to overly simplify it. People don't choose to be fat. They react to emotions, addictions, habits etc and getting fat is a byproduct. I read diet2ride's blog with sadness. I see someone who desperately wants to be slim but hasn't been armed with the right tools to do so, and hasn't really uncovered the reason why she overeats. Personally, I am overweight and on my own journey. I wish I had the answers but I expect they are unique to each individual, and certainly run both just as shallow, and much deeper than 'choose not to eat that'.

I couldn't support inflicting it on a horse though.


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## TigerTail (12 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			.

I am built like a draft horse, and that has nothing to do with the fat that I carry, I am solid, hairy, even when I'm slim I have size 9 (UK) feet. That is not a "poor me" or anything else, it is a fact, I am not delicate.
		
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The Big Boned thing really doesnt wash. No not everything is as simple as eat less move more, often because by the time people have realised they need to lose weight they're past that more simple stage. 
However it is still you putting the food in your mouth - no one else.

And what on earth is  the ''us cuddlies'' bit about?!?!?!  Does that make it acceptable in your head to be putting your body under unnecessary strain? Or to be burdening the NHS? Bus seats are not made for ''skinnies'' theyre made for average  You seem to think the world owes you something just because you got yourself fat?!


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## touchstone (12 October 2012)

Hmm, I thought that there was scientific evidence that there was a fat gene?

In defence of some of the overweight posters I genuinely believe it can be harder for some people to lose weight, some who call themselves 'big boned' are simply a naturally heavier build.

An insulin resistant pony will often have a ravenous appetite and I suspect that will also be true in humans.

While it might be easier for some to lose weight, it is worth considering that it can be harder for others, although diet and exercise is still the key.


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## Mongoose11 (12 October 2012)

Right my new life in the aim to be a fitter, lighter, better rider begins now. Does anyone think thay have it in them to offer advice, motivation and strict ar*e kicking team talks?

Who's with me?

Oh God, did I mention I have a place to run the London Marathon in April?


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## rhino (12 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Right my new life in the aim to be a fitter, lighter, better rider begins now. Does anyone think thay have it in them to offer advice, motivation and strict ar*e kicking team talks?

Who's with me?

Oh God, did I mention I have a place to run the London Marathon in April?
		
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Ooh well done you!  I can probably help with running tips, as I'm a qualified athletics coach, but would be worse than useless with diet tips!

There is a diet 'sticky' in soapbox with lots of ideas I think - or maybe pm Armas as he deals with weight loss professionally


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## ClobellsandBaubles (12 October 2012)

touchstone said:



			Hmm, I thought that there was scientific evidence that there was a fat gene?

In defence of some of the overweight posters I genuinely believe it can be harder for some people to lose weight, some who call themselves 'big boned' are simply a naturally heavier build.

An insulin resistant pony will often have a ravenous appetite and I suspect that will also be true in humans.

While it might be easier for some to lose weight, it is worth considering that it can be harder for others, although diet and exercise is still the key. 

Click to expand...

There is a fat gene but it doesn't necessarily mean you will be fat (I think Trinny and Susanna are an example of this). 

Apart from that I agree completely. Exercising is hard if you are obese and many people do not know the best ways to exercise in order to lose weight best. 

Eating less is not the answer either in such  minimal terms it has to be a lifestyle diet change and the 'healthy' diets trooped out by the government are not necessarily the best for weight-loss. Cutting calories will probably just leave you hungry and craving food constantly, a recipe for disaster. I lived on just chocolate chewing gum and coffee for a while and yes I lost weight and ate less but was it good for my health? Was I malnourished and ill... yes!

Poor education is one of the problems.


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## Mongoose11 (12 October 2012)

Armas has already been very kind - what a good guy! 

Rhino, I am out of breath walking at the moment - can it be done? I accepted a place in July. Thinking 'I can do this' I then very promptly broke my foot, put on nearly two stone and am worse than when I started


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

TigerTail said:









The Big Boned thing really doesnt wash. No not everything is as simple as eat less move more, often because by the time people have realised they need to lose weight they're past that more simple stage. 
However it is still you putting the food in your mouth - no one else.

And what on earth is  the ''us cuddlies'' bit about?!?!?!  Does that make it acceptable in your head to be putting your body under unnecessary strain? Or to be burdening the NHS? Bus seats are not made for ''skinnies'' theyre made for average  You seem to think the world owes you something just because you got yourself fat?!
		
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STAND BACK, seriously are you that stupid or are you deliberately trying to be insulting, which ever you have succeeded in making me very very angry..

LISTEN

WHEN DID I EVER SAY I AM NOT FAT????


Jezus, look, take a shire horse slim it right down, what do you have a TB? no, you have a trim and fit big boned horse.

Take me slim me down do you have an etheral super model waif, no you have a trim fit SHIRE HORSE, complete with hairy legs unless I am dedicated in removing them.

I AM NOT USING BEING BIG BONED AS AN EXCUSE FOR BEING FAT, I just recognize a simple truth I am not a TB, I come from years of peasant stock, and yes it shows in my behaviour as well as my build.

AND I have never use the world cuddly, the world doesn't owe me a damn thing,  apart from recognizing that I am a PERSON, like everyone else a flawed, and less than perfect person, who sometimes thinks the only way that you are a winner is to keep fighting, and I am fighting.


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## rhino (12 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Armas has already been very kind - what a good guy! 

Rhino, I am out of breath walking at the moment - can it be done? I accepted a place in July. Thinking 'I can do this' I then very promptly broke my foot, put on nearly two stone and am worse than when I started 

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Absolutely yes it can! You have over 6 months, so if you are sensible, organised and try and look after yourself you can do it  Have you done any distance running or walking events before? What can you do (comfortably) now and how much time/how many 'sessions' are you realistically going to be able to do a week?


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## Little Fat Pony (12 October 2012)

I'm coming to this discussion fairly late, so my point may be invalid but I have read the whole thread.

I am a "former" anorexic. I say "former" because I truly don't think it ever leaves you. I am 17, and 5'11 and weigh 8 and a half stone. Many people often comment that I should eat more, but I am happy with who I am. When I was at my worst I was 4 stone, and was seriously ill. 

I have no problem with over weight people, none whatsoever. In fact, I understand it to an extent, although my problem with food is the complete opposite. 

What I do have a problem with, is if anyone comments on someone being obese/overweight etc, then its "fat bashing", its "bullying", "cruel" etc, but if somebody called me "skinny", people would assume it's a compliment.

Being "overweight" is a fact, just as being "underweight" is a fact. It's not bullying, or being cruel. 

What is cruel is people who are clearly too heavy for horses riding them. I'm sorry, I know people will disagree with me, but there comes a point when it is just not fair to ask any horse to carry that amount of weight. If you want to ride, use it as a motivation to lose weight, but in the meantime stay on the ground. 

I can't see how it can be good for the horse in any shape or form, and I bet it causes long term damage. Okay, so a lot of horses might seem okay carrying a certain weight, but I bet after a while they start to ache. 

I know it's not comparable, but the way I see it is, my college bag, when it's filled with books is heavy. I can carry it round for hours with no ill effect, but towards the end of the day my shoulders start to ache. It must be the same for a horse. 

I just can't understand, I have a problem with food, and my relationship with it is still unhealthy, but I use food to help me see things in a positive light. In my case, I won't allow myself to go on a ride unless I have eaten. I know it is hard overcoming the mental affects, but if I can put on weight, and try hard to overcome something as depressing and life changing as anorexia, I'm sure people could do the same with obesity. (I'm not denying it would be hard, but surely a gallop on a horse, who could carry you with no ill effects, would be so worth it!)

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just in general. I just hate how it seems to be one rule for obese people, and another for skinny people. I know not all slim people have anorexia, but some do. I'm sick of being told "I won't grow into a "real" woman". I'm sorry but who are you, who is anyone, to define what a "real" woman is?!

IMO, I think the horses have to come first, no one has the right to inflict pain on them, whether it be purposefully or not. 

PS, Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I'm dyslexic as well, and the spell check on my computer seems to be slow.


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## TigerTail (12 October 2012)

Er the latter part of my post was aimed at the poster who posted the 'cuddlies vs skinnies' bit..... Nothing to do with you 

You cannot compare your physiology to a horses - we are designed completely differently. X rays prove that 'big boned' doesn't exist in the sense most use it.


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## Wagtail (12 October 2012)

Little Fat Pony said:



			I'm coming to this discussion fairly late, so my point may be invalid but I have read the whole thread.

I am a "former" anorexic. I say "former" because I truly don't think it ever leaves you. I am 17, and 5'11 and weigh 8 and a half stone. Many people often comment that I should eat more, but I am happy with who I am. When I was at my worst I was 4 stone, and was seriously ill. 

I have no problem with over weight people, none whatsoever. In fact, I understand it to an extent, although my problem with food is the complete opposite. 

What I do have a problem with, is if anyone comments on someone being obese/overweight etc, then its "fat bashing", its "bullying", "cruel" etc, but if somebody called me "skinny", people would assume it's a compliment.

Being "overweight" is a fact, just as being "underweight" is a fact. It's not bullying, or being cruel. 

What is cruel is people who are clearly too heavy for horses riding them. I'm sorry, I know people will disagree with me, but there comes a point when it is just not fair to ask any horse to carry that amount of weight. If you want to ride, use it as a motivation to lose weight, but in the meantime stay on the ground. 

I can't see how it can be good for the horse in any shape or form, and I bet it causes long term damage. Okay, so a lot of horses might seem okay carrying a certain weight, but I bet after a while they start to ache. 

I know it's not comparable, but the way I see it is, my college bag, when it's filled with books is heavy. I can carry it round for hours with no ill effect, but towards the end of the day my shoulders start to ache. It must be the same for a horse. 

I just can't understand, I have a problem with food, and my relationship with it is still unhealthy, but I use food to help me see things in a positive light. In my case, I won't allow myself to go on a ride unless I have eaten. I know it is hard overcoming the mental affects, but if I can put on weight, and try hard to overcome something as depressing and life changing as anorexia, I'm sure people could do the same with obesity. (I'm not denying it would be hard, but surely a gallop on a horse, who could carry you with no ill effects, would be so worth it!)

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just in general. I just hate how it seems to be one rule for obese people, and another for skinny people. I know not all slim people have anorexia, but some do. I'm sick of being told "I won't grow into a "real" woman". I'm sorry but who are you, who is anyone, to define what a "real" woman is?!

IMO, I think the horses have to come first, no one has the right to inflict pain on them, whether it be purposefully or not. 

PS, Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I'm dyslexic as well, and the spell check on my computer seems to be slow. 

Click to expand...

What an eloquent post. Much more mature than many twice your age.


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## rhino (12 October 2012)

Beautifully written post LFP


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## TrasaM (12 October 2012)

Great post Little Fat Pony..really well said.


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## Mongoose11 (12 October 2012)

Rhino - (can't quote as on my phone), I can walk at 6k an hour for an hour at the moment. I work up a massive sweat but I can do it. Every 15 minutes I run for 1 minute as fast as I can which is at about 8k an hour - trying to do have the 'interval' effect. I need a programme to stick to though as I am just making it up, refusing to let husband help me and still massively overeating. I have to stop and I want to. A couple of years ago I managed to go from 30 seconds running to managing 55 minutes in six weeks.... What would you recommend? (If you don't mind)


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## tallyho! (12 October 2012)

*likes little fat pony's post*

And to reiterate, why justify to yourself that being 20% of your horses weight is ok? That's a fifth of a horses weight. Why not be 15%? Now THAT would be a radical way to care for the horse. Surely much cheaper than osteopath.... Saddler.... Physio..... Trainer.... Fuller fillies gear.... She's expensive!!

I am not being offensive, I am just trying to motivate. It's like trying to motivate my anorexic sister to eat... But the opposite... How bizarre.

Billie, I think you are awesome! Go girl!!!


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## Little Fat Pony (12 October 2012)

Thank you  It's not often anyone says anything I write is eloquent


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## TrasaM (12 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Right my new life in the aim to be a fitter, lighter, better rider begins now. Does anyone think thay have it in them to offer advice, motivation and strict ar*e kicking team talks?

Who's with me?

Oh God, did I mention I have a place to run the London Marathon in April?
		
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The longest journey starts with a single step  I used to run and once did the Dublin marathon. Don't know who talked me into that one as I was a short distance runner really.  You've got lots of time to get ready for it. Well done


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## ester (12 October 2012)

and shire horses do have big bones so making the comparison between TBs and them isn't really valid is it?


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## Wheels (12 October 2012)

I haven't read the whole thread as it is very long and I don't have the energy. I am a serial yo yo dieter, it is a lot easier to put weight on than take it off I know that much.  

I think people need to realise that losing weight is harder for some people than it is for others so while ever I agree that what is needed for successful dieting is to eat less calories than you burn, it is really a lot more complicated in practise. I work in an office for 8 hrs per day and sit in my car getting to and from work for another 3. Apart from that I am fairly active, I walk the dogs, ride, look after the horses at home, am partial to hill walking on rough ground at the weekends but given my time constraints during the week I find it very hard to burn more calories than I eat. I reckon on work days I probably only burn around 1200 cals so that would mean only eating 700 cals a day if I want to lose 1lb a week. That is actually very difficult to do. 

I think also my body is just generally slow, my blood pressure is always and has always been slightly on the low side and my resting pulse is generally between 50 and 60.  I was hooked up to a heart monitor for a while the other day in the docs and I kept setting an alarm off because my pulse kept dropping below 45, the nurse changed the parameters saying the machine didn't work well on people with naturally low pulses. I suppose that's all metabolism related.


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## Anglebracket (12 October 2012)

Flame_ said:



			It is a problem with many solutions and you can choose to commit to finding the appropriate one or ones or you can choose to sit and say "well I've got a problem and there's nothing I can do about it", which, with obesity is simply not true.

The overweight posters on this thread are clearly made of strong stuff and I'm sure they know beating this problem is within their capabilities and its only a matter of time and finding the right approach before they are the weight they want to be.
		
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I did not intend to suggest that people should not try to lose weight. What I would like to see though is that people stop treating obesity as a moral failing. This isn't really helping anyone.

Losing a few pounds is relatively easy losing a few stones not so much. It is also generally easier to lose weight if you haven't been carrying it for a long time. People who have been obese for many years find it particularly hard to lose weight. Finally, obese people might never achieve to be the weight they want to be. In fact many struggle to maintain a lower weight (compared to their previous weight) that is still considered fat. For example, a person who has been 25 stones for a few years might have to work hard to maintain a weight of 18 stones whilst still being labelled with the stigma of being fat. Imagine constantly restraining yourself to maintain a given weight and still be judged as someone who just can't stay away from the biscuit tin.

In general people find it very hard to change their behaviour. It is not easy to fully overhaul your eating patterns and life-style. Also, to lose weight and not put it back on these changes have to be permanent; a few months of dieting is not going to cut it. Change takes time and people often relapse back into old habits. A snide comment or disgusted look can be detrimental to a person who is trying to change. This is why I think that comments such as eat less, you're just lazy, you have no self-control are unhelpful.


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## rhino (12 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Rhino - (can't quote as on my phone), I can walk at 6k an hour for an hour at the moment. I work up a massive sweat but I can do it. Every 15 minutes I run for 1 minute as fast as I can which is at about 8k an hour - trying to do have the 'interval' effect. I need a programme to stick to though as I am just making it up, refusing to let husband help me and still massively overeating. I have to stop and I want to. A couple of years ago I managed to go from 30 seconds running to managing 55 minutes in six weeks.... What would you recommend? (If you don't mind) 

Click to expand...

I'll pm you a few links x


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## kerilli (12 October 2012)

very well said LFP.
Big Ben, the 'big bones' thing doesn't really wash. maybe it makes you feel better, but it just doesn't wash. I'm 5'10" with wide shoulders and size 8 (U.K. size) feet, but I have small bones (judging by the Dukan test: do your first finger and thumb not meet, meet, or overlap around your wrist? this indicates large frame, average, or small) even though I have a pretty big frame for a woman. 
I could very easily be really big and fat. I have a VERY sweet tooth. I'm a carboholic. I would like to exist on chocolate bars, bread, pasta, rice, cakes, muffins, choc brownies... you name it. Those would always be my foods of choice, if I gave myself the choice...
Luckily my love for riding, and for my horses, and my vanity, stop me. I have a cousin in the States who, fortunately, only rides a Harley. She's two of me, and happy with her size. Great, because her Harley copes just fine. That's what it comes down to for me and for a LOT of HHOers. It's about the horses...   
Wagtail does pretty much what I do. I can't have that stuff in the house. If it's here, I eat it. I will sit and eat jam out of the jar, honey out of the jar. Sugar out of the sugar pot has been known. That's carboholism for you. Awful.
I keep my weight under control the way thousands of people do, I watch what I eat. There are various ways that work for various people. It's not easy. It's a thousand choices a week. But it is a choice...  Dukan works for me. Now I do my own version which is a bit easier (but still stringent). 
This isn't supposed to be 'holier than thou'. Nobody ever said it was easy.


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## YorksG (12 October 2012)

I don't think that slow pulse and low blood pressure can be used as a reason for being overweight, or being unable to loose weight. I also have low blood pressure and a slow pulse. I actually have problems keeping weight on, and in the past have lost about a stone in two weeks, entirely unintentionally. One reason why my weight drops is allergies to certain foods, the most recent one being alliums (onions, garlic etc). It is possible that some of the people who are having the most difficulty loosing weight are eating something which they have an intolerance to, worth keeping a food diary and seeing which food you eat every day and trying without that for a week. A friend did this with all wheat and lost a lot of weight (which she needed to) she did have some problems with cravings for wheat and also with headaches until her system got used to being without wheat.


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## FfionWinnie (12 October 2012)

Tnavas said:



			Well Rhino and Billie1007 - *you make me laugh* -
Life is not fun for us - travelling on public transport is a nightmare as the seats are built for *skinnies*. 

*So before you judge you need to know the history*.
		
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Take a dose of your own medicine 

If I had written that post and said fatties instead of skinnies would that be less acceptable to you than your use of the word skinnies?


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## tallyho! (12 October 2012)

What yorks g said. When I was in hospital last year the docs put me on obs for having a slow pulse, low bp, etc but I wasn't obese. I'm just chilled out and a normal weight. I am not a skinny bitch and I'm not a fatty (ooh get me, two insults in one ). I am in the green zone... At the top end and I don't work hard for it. I just don't see food like it is a controller of me. I eat when I am hungry. I have the worst job ever as I drive 6 hrs a day. I should be 22st but I'm not because I don't need the energy when all I do is drive all day. I don't stop when I get home... Oh wait I do sit on my arse on HHO but that is another story...

You can make all sorts of excuses for your behaviour and use your body as an excuse for your shortcomings. That's fine. Just don't inflict it on a horse.


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## FfionWinnie (12 October 2012)

Naturally said:



			Choice is good. I think a person needs to have to really want to lose weight, they have to CHOOSE to do so, to be successful. But to simplify it into a simple choice is to overly simplify it. People don't choose to be fat. They react to emotions, addictions, habits etc and getting fat is a byproduct. I read diet2ride's blog with sadness. I see someone who desperately wants to be slim but hasn't been armed with the right tools to do so, and hasn't really uncovered the reason why she overeats. Personally, I am overweight and on my own journey. I wish I had the answers but I expect they are unique to each individual, and certainly run both just as shallow, and much deeper than 'choose not to eat that'.

I couldn't support inflicting it on a horse though.
		
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Really good post Naturally.


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## Wheels (12 October 2012)

I didn't mean that having low pulse and blood pressure made me obese. I'm not and never have been obese, overweight maybe. 

But low pulse can be an indication of having low metabolism, maybe not for you but maybe for other people. Everyone's different.


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## kerilli (12 October 2012)

Wheels said:



			I didn't mean that having low pulse and blood pressure made me obese. I'm not and never have been obese, overweight maybe. 

But low pulse can be an indication of having low metabolism, maybe not for you but maybe for other people. Everyone's different.
		
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Low resting pulse is actually a sign of fitness too...


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## tallyho! (12 October 2012)

Wheels said:



			I didn't mean that having low pulse and blood pressure made me obese. I'm not and never have been obese, overweight maybe. 

But low pulse can be an indication of having low metabolism, maybe not for you but maybe for other people. Everyone's different.
		
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Yes absolutely, I only used to poo three times a week. They were the size of footballs.

Metabolism can change. I am now in my thirties and I poo every morning. It's wonderful!! I love my poos. My weight hast changed much, I feel healthier and happier and I am like an energiser bunny.

I changed on to a barefoot diet and the rest as they say... Is history


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## FfionWinnie (12 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Right my new life in the aim to be a fitter, lighter, better rider begins now. Does anyone think thay have it in them to offer advice, motivation and strict ar*e kicking team talks?

Who's with me?

Oh God, did I mention I have a place to run the London Marathon in April?
		
Click to expand...

Billie you are fantastic, your posts are great and I think you are a brilliant person. 

Some things that helped me were, I don't drink anything except water. I got to the age of 28 not liking water now all I drink is (sparking unflavoured) water. 

I chew sugar free chewing gum instead of dessert/sweets. Firstly it gives you something to chew on and secondly the amount of calories in it are negative to the amount used to chew it. 

Sugar free jelly has hardly any calories. It's minging but ok once used to it. 

Lastly and most importantly I got a wii fit, I did as much exercise as I could at work and did the wii fit every day. I also tracked my calories with myfitnesspal. I would look at the calories of each thing before I ate it and decide if it was worth the x amount of minutes on the wii fit. 

I stopped snacking at night and don't eat after my evening meal. At first I felt hungry but I ignored it and went to bed and oddly wasn't hungry when I woke up so it was just habit. 

Good luck


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## Wheels (12 October 2012)

Too much information tallyho


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## FfionWinnie (12 October 2012)

Wheels said:



			Too much information tallyho 

Click to expand...

Amen sista


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## Copperpot (12 October 2012)

When I was super fit and before I started smoking again, my resting heart rate was 40. I've always had low blood pressure too. My maximum heart rate was about 190 thou, so had a big range 

Must get fit again ......


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## tallyho! (12 October 2012)

Wheels said:



			Too much information tallyho 

Click to expand...




FfionWinnie said:



			Amen sista

Click to expand...

I fart like a trooper too 

But they smell like... Yeah you guessed it... Roses !!


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## Wagtail (12 October 2012)

My blood pressure is 110 over 60 and pulse is 54. Before my recent meds I never had a problem with weight and was skinny.


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## FfionWinnie (12 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			I fart like a trooper too 

But they smell like... Yeah you guessed it... Roses !! 

Click to expand...

Go away stinky bleurgh


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## RunToEarth (12 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			STAND BACK, seriously are you that stupid or are you deliberately trying to be insulting, which ever you have succeeded in making me very very angry..

LISTEN

WHEN DID I EVER SAY I AM NOT FAT????


Jezus, look, take a shire horse slim it right down, what do you have a TB? no, you have a trim and fit big boned horse.

Take me slim me down do you have an etheral super model waif, no you have a trim fit SHIRE HORSE, complete with hairy legs unless I am dedicated in removing them.

I AM NOT USING BEING BIG BONED AS AN EXCUSE FOR BEING FAT, I just recognize a simple truth I am not a TB, I come from years of peasant stock, and yes it shows in my behaviour as well as my build.

AND I have never use the world cuddly, the world doesn't owe me a damn thing,  apart from recognizing that I am a PERSON, like everyone else a flawed, and less than perfect person, who sometimes thinks the only way that you are a winner is to keep fighting, and I am fighting.
		
Click to expand...

Big boned is absolute rubbish, IMO, it's such a poor founded excuse. There was a programme on a few months ago that hugely dispelled the "fat gene" argument also, with 9/10 "fat families" they surveyed not carrying it. 

Most of us have had issues with wieght, whether it being too skinny or too big. The truth is that many people choose diets that the human body was never designed to work on. Too many processed, high salt/carb crap. Reassess your diet, reassess your life. 

I still maintain that it is cruel to ride horses when you are that size.


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## tallyho! (12 October 2012)

I had Bombay potatoes earlier... Got some proper ripe ones for tomorrow


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## Littlelegs (12 October 2012)

Great post little fat pony. 
  And ditto yorksg, I'm the same, except its not intolerances that cause me to lose weight, its if for whatever reason I don't eat ridiculously large quantities of food.


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## Karran (12 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			I had Bombay potatoes earlier... Got some proper ripe ones for tomorrow 

Click to expand...

Off topic but what are they? The OH is rather fond of potato products but neither of us like spicy foods so we haven't tried.


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			Big boned is absolute rubbish, IMO, it's such a poor founded excuse. There was a programme on a few months ago that hugely dispelled the "fat gene" argument also, with 9/10 "fat families" they surveyed not carrying it.
		
Click to expand...


Has headache from banging head against desk, maybe it is me using the wrong language, one more try then I am out of here.

I AM FAT/ OBESE, and I am not making excuses, I am trying very hard to change that.

I lost 140 pounds 2 years ago, so I CAN lose weight, but HEY GUESS WHAT, I was still not a waif, lets stop the big bone, because you don't seem to get that, lets try large framed, whatever I do I will not be sylph like, because I am large framed, so as I said I can get to be a beautifully proportioned LARGE FRAMED person.

I am not using that as any sort of excuse or shield, it is just fact.

We are not all built the same, different people have a different structure, so even when they have a perfectly toned body they will look different, and that is all I was trying to say.

Now I'm going to give up, because I obviously do not pssess teh skillls needs to expalin.


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## tallyho! (12 October 2012)

Karran said:



			Off topic but what are they? The OH is rather fond of potato products but neither of us like spicy foods so we haven't tried.
		
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Basically, it's roasted potatoes.... Boiled and bashed first with some olive oil, then rained on with Bombay spice stuff you get form sainsburys, then given another good bashing in the pot before being transferred into a hot olive oiled pan to be sizzled to sublime crispiness. 

Roasted chicken and a tomato and onion salsa. 

It's not that spicy


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## Karran (12 October 2012)

Too spicy for the OH. Anything spicer than packet wedges would be discarded. He is very strict on his potato produce. 

Although I believe his aroma's could battle yours from what I've learnt tonight!


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## Little Fat Pony (12 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Basically, it's roasted potatoes.... Boiled and bashed first with some olive oil, then rained on with Bombay spice stuff you get form sainsburys, then given another good bashing in the pot before being transferred into a hot olive oiled pan to be sizzled to sublime crispiness. 

Roasted chicken and a tomato and onion salsa. 

It's not that spicy 

Click to expand...

Tallyho - you just made me, an anorexic, want to try some food, and thats saying something   (minus the roasted chicken though, I'm a strict vegetarian  )


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## tallyho! (12 October 2012)

Little Fat Pony said:



			Tallyho - you just made me, an anorexic, want to try some food, and thats saying something   (minus the roasted chicken though, I'm a strict vegetarian  )
		
Click to expand...

I am a pro darling my sis was just like you xxx

Also, I am an unashamed nigella fan and more recently Lorraine pascalle.... I admit to switching *some* of the ingredients to low fat though..... 

The amount of butter cooks use it's a wonder if they pooed once a week!


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## Little Fat Pony (12 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			I am a pro darling my sis was just like you xxx
		
Click to expand...

Ah that explains it, have googled recipes so I'm going to try and make it tomorrow. That'll be the real test!   xxx


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## TrasaM (12 October 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			Big boned is absolute rubbish, IMO, it's such a poor founded excuse. There was a programme on a few months ago that hugely dispelled the "fat gene" argument also, with 9/10 "fat families" they surveyed not carrying it. 

Most of us have had issues with wieght, whether it being too skinny or too big. The truth is that many people choose diets that the human body was never designed to work on. Too many processed, high salt/carb crap. Reassess your diet, reassess your life. 

I still maintain that it is cruel to ride horses when you are that size.
		
Click to expand...

You are being a bit unfair to big Ben..she's not making excuses for being overweight she was pointing out that she has a large frame and hence will never achieve sylph like proportions. From what she's said she is trying hard to lose weight and get fit to ride.  With regards to frame size. I am 5'5 " and at 10st can easily wear size 10. I have a friend who is the same height but at size 10 she will weight 8st 7lbs.  I once went down to 8st and was in a size 6 ( not a good look.)


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## Natch (12 October 2012)

What on earth is the problem with big or small bones?! We accept that a shire has larger cannon bones than a tb, and they are also denser. A cob and a tb could be the same height, carrying the same amount of fat, be in the same work routine and they will weigh different weights. Why is it so 'out there' to apply the same logic to human skeletons? Surely that is one of the reasons why there is a healthy weight RANGE for each height? 

My happy weight is right on the top border of the weight range for my height. I have been half a stone lighter and my ribs show, and I don't feel healthy. I believe that part of the reason why I am best off at the top of that range is that I don't have a small skeleton.

I'm not saying big bones are a good excuse to be fat. They are not. But some of us would look too skinny at a size 12, abd I'm pretty sure my skeleton alone has hips that wouldnt fit into size 8!


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## Wagtail (12 October 2012)

I think what most people are saying, is that they don't have any problems with overweight people. If this were a motorcycle forum, the issue would never come up! No one would say a thing unless someone was after dieting tips. The problem is that we are dealing with living beings, and they can suffer pain and fatigue when too much is asked of them. And this is not only when asked to carry too much weight. 

It is up to each individual if they are overweight or not. Some are happy that way, others are deeply unhappy. But that does not mean that another creature, namely a horse should be made to carry their burden.


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			You are being a bit unfair to big Ben..she's not making excuses for being overweight she was pointing out that she has a large frame and hence will never achieve sylph like proportions. From what she's said she is trying hard to lose weight and get fit to ride.  With regards to frame size. I am 5'5 " and at 10st can easily wear size 10. I have a friend who is the same height but at size 10 she will weight 8st 7lbs.  I once went down to 8st and was in a size 6 ( not a good look.)
		
Click to expand...

Goes and cries in the corner, thank you, thank you for understanding what I was trying to say, that is it exactly.

http://www.keep-in-health.com/item/body_type_endomorph_mesomorph_ectomorph.html

Different builds of people, different shapes, different ways to get fit and healthy.


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## tallyho! (12 October 2012)

Like wagtail says if it weren't for the ponies, we would not be here arguing whether there are big boned people or small boned people in the world.

If horses were not involved would we even be arguing with each other?


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## Littlelegs (12 October 2012)

Trasam has just highlighted the double standards in 'fat bashing' versus 'skinny' bashing. Why is 8stone & size 6 not a good look? Would it be ok to comment on people in plus sizes in the same way? Not having a go trasam, I know it wasn't meant as in insult or to be horrid, nor am I offended. It just highlights the difference in how personal comments on size are ok when its a thin person, but not when they're fat.


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## Big Ben (12 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Trasam has just highlighted the double standards in 'fat bashing' versus 'skinny' bashing. Why is 8stone & size 6 not a good look? Would it be ok to comment on people in plus sizes in the same way? Not having a go trasam, I know it wasn't meant as in insult or to be horrid, nor am I offended. It just highlights the difference in how personal comments on size are ok when its a thin person, but not when they're fat.
		
Click to expand...


Trasam was merely mentioning that 8 stone and size 6 was not a good look for her, believe it or not, once again same as horses to skinny is not a good look.

Trouble is we are all focused on scales and numbers rather than accepting that everyone is different, and a perfect covering of flesh is different for different people.

To fat is bad and unhealthy, to thin is bad and unhealthy


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## TrasaM (12 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Trasam has just highlighted the double standards in 'fat bashing' versus 'skinny' bashing. Why is 8stone & size 6 not a good look? Would it be ok to comment on people in plus sizes in the same way? Not having a go trasam, I know it wasn't meant as in insult or to be horrid, nor am I offended. It just highlights the difference in how personal comments on size are ok when its a thin person, but not when they're fat.
		
Click to expand...

 I was not in a good place at the time and was very underweight, as in skeletal,  for my frame. I know what you mean though as I was constantly being told how thin I was and it did used to annoy me. There are indeed double standards operating here.


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## Flame_ (12 October 2012)

tallyho! said:



			If horses were not involved would we even be arguing with each other?
		
Click to expand...

I think we can safely say that no matter what we'll all still be arguing with each other. 

Billie, respect! Have fun with your training. I went to do half an hour on the cross trainer after feeling bad for telling people they could and should lose weight whilst I sat on the couch eating curly fries.


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## YorksG (12 October 2012)

TrasaM said:



			I was not in a good place at the time and was very underweight, as in skeletal,  for my frame. I know what you mean though as I was constantly being told how thin I was and it did used to annoy me. There are indeed double standards operating here.
		
Click to expand...

It is annoying, even more so when they say how lucky you are! The 'you can eat anything and not put on weight' comments get a bit wearing.


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## Hippona (12 October 2012)

LFP  sorry cant quote cos im on my phone, but fabulous post


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## Zeehorse (12 October 2012)

I am a new member here.  I caught wind of your interest in our Plus Size forum and the photos there, and the merriment, shock and disgust they caused here. And as the person who got caught on the horn of the western saddle of a bucking horse, I am happy to have provided much amusement , too.
To those who have never ridden in a western saddle, they might find it inconceivable , but it actually isn't that odd, considering that the horn sticks up something like 8 inches when you factor in the height of he pommel, too.
Then add to that a rearing horse and the need for the rider to lean way forward to avoid falling off, and you have a scenario for the pant (trousers, breeches whatever you want to call them) to get looped over the horn.  Then a horse that then hits the ground bucking and it wasnt' nearly as much fun to experience as it was to tell.

True, if I did not have a belly, I'd be LESS likely to get hung up, but it could happen to a thinner person, too.

Just thought I'd put in a word in my own self defence.

That thread, by the way, is for the purpose of large sized riders to be able to show pictures of themselves and their horses.  There are cases where I might think the rider IS too big for the horse they are on.  But since they did not ask my opinion on that, I will not offer that critisism.

It's very hard for overweight people to feel ok about being seen in public, so this place is meant to be a "safe" place for those that are afraid to put themselves out on the line.  Your thread only reinforces my impression that we did the right thing by creating such a sub-forum for these members.  Many of these people do not ride very vigorously or frequently, so  it might not be nearly as damaging to the horse as if they were hunting across the countryside.

AND,  I will second the thoughts of folks who have already mentioned that a heavier rider , if well balanced and reasonably fit, can be much easier for the horse to carry than a thin person who is not capable of carrying their own weight well.

I weigh just over 200 lbs.  I don't know how many stone that is.  I would not subject my weight  to a small horse, and indeed, the horse that bucked me is one that I would not ride for long, only at a walk/trot in good footing for a short time.  He is about 15,2hh QH..  I now ride a 17hh Irish sport horse, and a 16 hh Appalousa.  Both can carry me with ease.  I am perfectly capable of trotting , cantering along the wooded trails for hours.  Even though I am most certainly fluffy. It is really a matter of fitness and experience.

Some of the riders on our forum do need to be more fit, if only for their own safety.  An unfit rider is more likely to fall and get hurt.

Oh, and one last thing.   I am not capable of mounting from the ground.  I am 54, fat and too many knee injuries.  That does not make me ready to give up riding. I use a mounting block, always.  works for me ,  not to mention, it is better for the horse to have the rider mount from a block or a pile of rocks or a log.

I welcome "fluffy" or just plump riders to join us on the Plus Size forum any day you like.  We are an international bunch and always looking for more members, whatever size you may be.


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## TrasaM (12 October 2012)

Hiya..Zeehorse. Nice post and welcome.  200lbs is approx 14st 4lbs in our currency.


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## Zeehorse (13 October 2012)

Thank you. Now I know.  I love the old measurements systems;  not so dry as metric.  There's a feeling of "heft" to a measurement system using "stone" to describe weight.


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## madeleine1 (13 October 2012)

i dont really care about the rest of the post as its decended into classic forum fun but  CURVES ARE SEXY some one on her put that they are not but they are. you dont have to be fat or skinny to have curves but they are sexy. im a size 18 but when i was a size 8 my bum was almost as big as it is now.
currently my top half is a 16 and bottom is an 18, but when i was a size 8 on my top my bum was still a size 12.

i have seen skinny people with very sexy curves and larger people with sexy curves but equally u can get big and small people who are very up and down and tend to be more beautiful and stunning rather then sexy.

everyone is sexy, stunning and beautiful to someone


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## Zeehorse (13 October 2012)

I think I put the Kiss of Death on this thread.  Real party pooper.  Sorry, y'all.
here is me on the Irish draft I part lease.







so, I don't yet know how to do photos.  it's much easier on Horse forum.  or "HoFo".






[/IMG]



ARGH!  cannot get the right code from Photobucket.  I am a technoidiot.  help!


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## Capriole (13 October 2012)




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## Zeehorse (13 October 2012)

how the heck did you do that?  Sorry to be such ignorant hillbilly.

Wow! that's a big picture.


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## Big Ben (13 October 2012)

Well Zeehorse AKA Threadkiller, you can't be that much of a techo idiot, I see you have an avatar, I haven't managed that, but then it's hard to squash a big horse and a big person into that little box


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## Capriole (13 October 2012)

I just edited your code a little bit 

Its the IMG code from photobucket you need to copy and paste.


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## Zeehorse (13 October 2012)

I thought I had done that.  

Sorry that this forum doesn't have a "like" button.   I'd "like" Big Ben's post .

in any case, many thanks Capriole.


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## Capriole (13 October 2012)

You're welcome. What's your horse's breeding?


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## Zeehorse (13 October 2012)

First of all, he isn't mine (though I sorely wish he were).  I am part leasing him from a college student who has not enough time to ride him. 
He is an Irish draft crossed with Selle Francais.  His father is King of Hearts, who was sired by King of Diamonds, I think.  He is actually quite an aggressive jumper, very brave across country and sometime more horse than I can feel truly comfy on.  But, mostly we ride at a peacable rate throught he woods and do some low level dressage work  (emphasis on "low").  He is very surefooted and loves the trails.   I am fortuneate to have an equestrian park across the street from the barn where there are nearly 500 acres of land to ride on (wooded and trails).

here is me on the Appy, out riding in the mountains (where we trailered into )







he is 16hh and maybe 1200 lbs.  He has no trouble at all carrying my 200 lbs, plus the weight of the saddle up the mountainside.


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## Zeehorse (13 October 2012)

forgive me for going on and on here, but am I the only Yank here?  just curious.


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## kerilli (13 October 2012)

Nope, you're not the only Yank... I'm an ex-pat, have lived in England since I was a baby.
Welcome to HHO. 
One question, when you see a pic of a very big rider on a totally unsuitable horse, does it not make you want to speak out for the horse's sake? I'm just curious.
Must admit, "fluffy" as a euphemism does make me laugh... Especially as anything fluffy is usually far _lighter_ than it looks, since the fluff disguises the real size of the body underneath! I'd love to know who came up with that label...


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## PucciNPoni (13 October 2012)

Kerilli, I had no idea you were a yank too!

I am, have only been in the UK for about 11 years now....

Zeehorse, I woudn't make apologies for not being able to mount from the ground.  Even those who are able just don't because it's better for the horse's back to mount from height.  

Now, when it's difficult to climb the mounting block in order to get on the horse, that's when it's nearly laughable!  We have a mounting block just outside our gates where I keep the horse.  It's a roadside mounting block and it's mid thigh height, and in the middle of a pile of stinging nettle.  I do find it a challenge...especially since I've sprained my left ankle and injured my right knee.  How does one get on such a high block without use of hands (one on the reins steering the horse, the other avoiding the nettles) and trying to move knee and hip joints in to weird contorsions in order to get up that high, all the while tyring to tell the horse to stand a certain way....fortunately mine is incredibly well behaved - and for some reason while he spooks at the blocks in the school, he never does at the one next to the speeding cars....


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## Zeehorse (13 October 2012)

That was the comedian, mentioned early, Gabriel Iglesia?  he IS really fluffy.

I am honestly about the biggest rider I know of.  Wait, I take it back.  There was another gal I knew back some years who was quite large.    I knew that she rode but never saw her ride.  I do rememer thinking "I wonder what kind of horse she is riding".  But, other than that, I am the biggest I see around here.  There are others near about my size, though, so I dont' feel TOO wierd.  I am aware of my size.  my good friend offers me to ride her little tiny qh  and I have sat in the saddle a few times to demonstrate some things to her, but I would never ride him fast than a trot, and then VERY briefly.  I know it is unccomfortable for him.      But, most other folks do not hesitate to offer me to ride their horses, all horses of a typical size.  If they are on the small side, I will politely decline.  I know what's best.

If I did see someone too large, I might say something if I truly thought the horse would suffer damage.  It's one thing if the horse is a little uncomfortable for the hour or so the rider putzes along.  But, if the horse is in danger of damaging a tendon, or being forced to jump high while carrying too much and unconditioned for such loading, them I might.

The thing is, most fat people know they are fat.  Funny how that works.  And most of them will not make a change by being shamed (as someone at the beginning of this thread was talking about).  Shame only makes a person try to escape pain, by eating more!
Hope is what makes people want to change.

From what I have hear, in Britain there is a popular idea of what a horse can carry that is maybe a bit narrow.    Those big hunters you have can carry me easily, but I would be over the weight limit at many places, so I am told.  And , ask yourself, is it just a matter of pounds?  I mean, there are lots of "normal" sized men who weigh about what I do.  Would anyone look askance at them riding a typical sized horse?  Would they, too, be denied a horse at a rental yard or riding school?


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## Zeehorse (13 October 2012)

PucciNPoni said:



			Kerilli, I had no idea you were a yank too!

I am, have only been in the UK for about 11 years now....

Zeehorse, I woudn't make apologies for not being able to mount from the ground.  Even those who are able just don't because it's better for the horse's back to mount from height.  

Now, when it's difficult to climb the mounting block in order to get on the horse, that's when it's nearly laughable!  We have a mounting block just outside our gates where I keep the horse.  It's a roadside mounting block and it's mid thigh height, and in the middle of a pile of stinging nettle.  I do find it a challenge...especially since I've sprained my left ankle and injured my right knee.  How does one get on such a high block without use of hands (one on the reins steering the horse, the other avoiding the nettles) and trying to move knee and hip joints in to weird contorsions in order to get up that high, all the while tyring to tell the horse to stand a certain way....fortunately mine is incredibly well behaved - and for some reason while he spooks at the blocks in the school, he never does at the one next to the speeding cars....
		
Click to expand...

I , do, agree with you.  Some scenes of me trying to mount at whatever placeI could find on the trail (like , say, if I dropped a glove and had to get off and fetch it) would be really laughable.  I am the first to laugh at myself there.

we have stinging nettles , too!  man, get out there with some cutters, or spray the Round Up on it (chemicals).   we have those darn things everywhere!


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## Zeehorse (13 October 2012)

PucciNPoni said:



			Kerilli, I had no idea you were a yank too!

I am, have only been in the UK for about 11 years now....

.
		
Click to expand...

So , what brought you to the UK 11 years ago?

I have only been there once about 24 years ago.  Spent two weeks in London with a few days detour to Edinburg and thereabouts.  I am an Anglophile, just like my mother.  I would totally LOVE to spend a month travelling around.  If I could afford it!


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## PucciNPoni (13 October 2012)

Now why don't they make riding gloves wtih strings attached like they do mittens for little kids?  I think there's a market there somewhere.

I moved to the UK for love (sap, I know).  I married a Scottish bloke.


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## Big Ben (13 October 2012)

ROFLMAO, I will now make my fortune by designing hat strings, a series of clips were you can secure gloves, whip, hanky, etc from your helmet, in true Aussie cork style

Zeehorse you make a good point about men v women, for the longest time I had a stolen quote as my siggy line on COTH, 

"well that was 200 pound of man fat, it weighs different to 200 pounds of woman fat" or something similar.

Once again, making no justification of my own size, but

I am 5' 8" (and sulking, I was always just over 5'9" but no matter how I tried couldn't get over 5'8 " when the measured me before my OP in August) now say I weighed 200 pounds, I actually don't look that horrific at 200 pounds, kind of like this







Now if my friend who is closer to 5', and coming at it from the shorter direction, weighed 200 pounds she would look like this







Now how often do we make judgments on suitability based on shape rather than weight? Body shots taken from this site 

http://www.mybodygallery.com/index.html


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## Big Ben (13 October 2012)

One more before I crawl off to bed...

our 5' person at 250 pounds







our 5' 8" person at 250 pounds







and a 6'4" man at 250 pounds







who I still thinks looks fine if a little tall for the little haffy, but either of the ladies would look better height wise, but not so good weight wise.


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## Vickijay (13 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			Now how often do we make judgments on suitability based on shape rather than weight? Body shots taken from this site 

http://www.mybodygallery.com/index.html

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this website. 

I have been big for a few years but when my horse was injured and off work for 3 months I just sat around and ate WAY too much (coupled with with drowning my sorrows WAAAAAY too much too) and I put on another 2.5 stone which took me to really, really big.

I also have a homebred who never really grew. She's around 15.2 (at a push!) and she was the biggest reason to do something about it as she was almost 4 and time to ride her. I didn't want anyone else to start her so I had to do something about it. 

So in April I decided enough was enough and now I am over 5 stone lighter. Still going to try to do another stone or stone and a half (which is boring but ill keep going) 

One of my biggest problems is that I still feel the same as I did when I was huge so that website is really interesting to see as I can look at my old weight and my new one (and my target weight!) so thank you for sharing


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## PucciNPoni (13 October 2012)

Big Ben, the point I think you're making is really valid - in that there is a conception that it's okay for a large bloke at that weight to ride a smallish horse but not a woman of the same weight. 

Now, the obvious reason is that a man at 250 and nearly 6' will very often be of muscle and that muscle can be made to ride lighter as the muscle can be directed in a positive way.   250# of fat however, does not take direction in the same way as muscle mass.  Of course a woman weighing 250 isn't just fat - there will be muscle and water retention and of course internal organs and skeltal structure...


....which gets me to thinking that we ought not judge a rider solely on their weight but take in to consideration the percentage of body fat and skill in "riding light".


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## Clava (13 October 2012)

PucciNPoni said:



			Big Ben, the point I think you're making is really valid - in that there is a conception that it's okay for a large bloke at that weight to ride a smallish horse but not a woman of the same weight. 

Now, the obvious reason is that a man at 250 and nearly 6' will very often be of muscle and that muscle can be made to ride lighter as the muscle can be directed in a positive way.   250# of fat however, does not take direction in the same way as muscle mass.  Of course a woman weighing 250 isn't just fat - there will be muscle and water retention and of course internal organs and skeltal structure...


....which gets me to thinking that we ought not judge a rider solely on their weight but take in to consideration the percentage of body fat and skill in "riding light".
		
Click to expand...

True, muscle will help with balance and control of the weight, but "riding light" only makes a bad situation slightly better, the same physical amount of weight is still bearing down onto a small area of the horses back.


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## eahotson (13 October 2012)

Zeehorse said:



			That was the comedian, mentioned early, Gabriel Iglesia?  he IS really fluffy.

I am honestly about the biggest rider I know of.  Wait, I take it back.  There was another gal I knew back some years who was quite large.    I knew that she rode but never saw her ride.  I do rememer thinking "I wonder what kind of horse she is riding".  But, other than that, I am the biggest I see around here.  There are others near about my size, though, so I dont' feel TOO wierd.  I am aware of my size.  my good friend offers me to ride her little tiny qh  and I have sat in the saddle a few times to demonstrate some things to her, but I would never ride him fast than a trot, and then VERY briefly.  I know it is unccomfortable for him.      But, most other folks do not hesitate to offer me to ride their horses, all horses of a typical size.  If they are on the small side, I will politely decline.  I know what's best.

If I did see someone too large, I might say something if I truly thought the horse would suffer damage.  It's one thing if the horse is a little uncomfortable for the hour or so the rider putzes along.  But, if the horse is in danger of damaging a tendon, or being forced to jump high while carrying too much and unconditioned for such loading, them I might.

The thing is, most fat people know they are fat.  Funny how that works.  And most of them will not make a change by being shamed (as someone at the beginning of this thread was talking about).  Shame only makes a person try to escape pain, by eating more!
Hope is what makes people want to change.

From what I have hear, in Britain there is a popular idea of what a horse can carry that is maybe a bit narrow.    Those big hunters you have can carry me easily, but I would be over the weight limit at many places, so I am told.  And , ask yourself, is it just a matter of pounds?  I mean, there are lots of "normal" sized men who weigh about what I do.  Would anyone look askance at them riding a typical sized horse?  Would they, too, be denied a horse at a rental yard or riding school?
		
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Sorry my quoting skills are poor BUT that bit bit about shame making people want to escape the pain by eating more.HOPE is what makes people at least try to change.Loved it.Emotionally intelligent.Loved your pics too.


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## eahotson (13 October 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			Big boned is absolute rubbish, IMO, it's such a poor founded excuse. There was a programme on a few months ago that hugely dispelled the "fat gene" argument also, with 9/10 "fat families" they surveyed not carrying it. 

Most of us have had issues with wieght, whether it being too skinny or too big. The truth is that many people choose diets that the human body was never designed to work on. Too many processed, high salt/carb crap. Reassess your diet, reassess your life. 

I still maintain that it is cruel to ride horses when you are that size.
		
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See I don't agree with that.People ARE built differently and I think there is a fat gene (or something,maybe metabolism,don't know).I say this because my sister had a friend years ago who was morbidly obese during childhood and teenage years.She eventually dieted and married, as it happens, a very slim man.Two girls later.G watched their diet like a hawk because she did not want her girls to go through what she went through.Neither were fat but they were different builds and you could see one was heavier built than the other one and would easily become fat if not on a very strict diet.G used to say she could have let the lighter one eat a lot more really but couldn't because they were young children and she didn't feel it fair to differentiate.


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## eahotson (13 October 2012)

Bad backs in horses.MM Some of the worst I have seen have been in riding schools where poor fitting tack seems to be the norm.You would think that these horses, that the amount of work they do,often with novice riders of all sizes would be the ones in most need of well fitting saddles, sometimes 2 for different sized riders wouldn't you? NOPE.I bought one horse, a big 16 hh cobby type.Always stumbling.Vet on vetting said lazy.I also got his saddle in with the deal.It tunrned out to be a childs with a broken tree.Nice eh? Properly fitting saddle and physio and he started moving his back and 95% of stumbling ceased!


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## kerilli (13 October 2012)

Clava said:



			True, muscle will help with balance and control of the weight, but "riding light" only makes a bad situation slightly better, the same physical amount of weight is still bearing down onto a small area of the horses back.
		
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This!!! 
Sorry, but this 'riding light' thing is a bit of a myth, drives me crazy when used as an excuse, and I was really disappointed to see the H&H vet perpetuate it.
If I fill a backpack with, say 30 lbs of well-packed, stable weight, that's fine to carry. If I fill it with a saggy water container weighing the same it will be harder to balance myself as I carry it, because it will shift around unhelpfully, but the weight is the same. The latter will be more tiring to carry though because I'll have to keep compensating for the shifts.
I think the tall guy like the one in the pic is like the former load. His weight is mostly muscle and is spread all around his body, his legs will be heavy but very stable. His core will be pretty stable too. Easier to carry, yes... BUT still weighs x, bearing down on a relatively small area of the horse's back, which as we know is a 'suspension bridge' held up by ligaments, tendons, muscles. (Hence many old horses get sway backs even if never ridden by anyone heavy - the constant heavy weight of their gut gradually weakens everything and pulls their back down. The one horse I know of who was backed and ridden FAR too young by a clueless idiot was a short-backed coloured cob, he had the worst sway back I've ever seen in a young horse, poor lad. Irrevocably physically damaged at 2 yrs old.) 
Most riding schools over here have a strict weight limit which they adhere to. Sometimes it is surprisingly low.
Vickyjay, good for you. That is a real accomplishment. 

Zeehorse, you have stinging nettles over there? I was told there were none in the U.S., that you have poison ivy and poison oak instead. Roughly whereabouts are you please, so I can tell my mother she got something wrong!


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## Emilieu (13 October 2012)

I can't quote because I am on my phone but just wanted to answer the question about the riding schools looking askance at men. I have a friend who husband is 16 stone of pure muscle, he is about 6'2" and recently wanted to try riding lessons. They looked the length and breath of Scotland and couldn't find a riding school to take him. So yes - riding schools judge men in the same way.


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## Wagtail (13 October 2012)

kerilli said:



			This!!! 
Sorry, but this 'riding light' thing is a bit of a myth, drives me crazy when used as an excuse, and I was really disappointed to see the H&H vet perpetuate it.
If I fill a backpack with, say 30 lbs of well-packed, stable weight, that's fine to carry. If I fill it with a saggy water container weighing the same it will be harder to balance myself as I carry it, because it will shift around unhelpfully, but the weight is the same. The latter will be more tiring to carry though because I'll have to keep compensating for the shifts.
I think the tall guy like the one in the pic is like the former load. His weight is mostly muscle and is spread all around his body, his legs will be heavy but very stable. His core will be pretty stable too.
		
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Excellent description, Kerilli.


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## Wagtail (13 October 2012)

Capriole said:








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Zeehorse, you look absolutely fine on that horse. He is lovely.


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## sidesaddlegirl (13 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			"well that was 200 pound of man fat, it weighs different to 200 pounds of woman fat" or something similar.

Once again, making no justification of my own size, but

I am 5' 8" (and sulking, I was always just over 5'9" but no matter how I tried couldn't get over 5'8 " when the measured me before my OP in August) now say I weighed 200 pounds, I actually don't look that horrific at 200 pounds, kind of like this







Now if my friend who is closer to 5', and coming at it from the shorter direction, weighed 200 pounds she would look like this







Now how often do we make judgments on suitability based on shape rather than weight? Body shots taken from this site 

http://www.mybodygallery.com/index.html

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Big Ben, that is SO TRUE! I'm 5'9" and not far off from 200lbs and I look similar to that lady in the pink top you posted (LOl, I'm boob 'n hip). I clock up about 8 miles a day on my bike, jog 3k nearly everyday and ride my horse  everyday (not plod around down the lane but seriously school dressage for an hour) and I do not look massive but I have some friends who ride (happy hackers) that are shorter than me, some by quite a few inches, who are very large looking BUT would be under the weight of most riding schools!! 

People are shocked when they find out how much I weigh and my weight doesn't affect my horse as the back lady never needs to do anything to my TB and we win regularly at shows and dressage comps!


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## sidesaddlegirl (13 October 2012)

eahotson said:



			See I don't agree with that.People ARE built differently and I think there is a fat gene (or something,maybe metabolism,don't know).I say this because my sister had a friend years ago who was morbidly obese during childhood and teenage years.She eventually dieted and married, as it happens, a very slim man.Two girls later.G watched their diet like a hawk because she did not want her girls to go through what she went through.Neither were fat but they were different builds and you could see one was heavier built than the other one and would easily become fat if not on a very strict diet.G used to say she could have let the lighter one eat a lot more really but couldn't because they were young children and she didn't feel it fair to differentiate.
		
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I agree. My sister and I have slim, tall parents. My mum is 5'9" and used to take 26"-28" waist jeans and skirts, my dad is 6'1" or 6'2" (can't remember) and I remember his jeans weren't that far off my mums!! My sis and I were both fed the same, both played outside but I was the "big" sister both in weight and height.


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## Wagtail (13 October 2012)

There was a recent series on UK TV called secret eaters. It proved that in the vast majority of cases, overweight people were consuming far in excess of what they thought they were.


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## PucciNPoni (13 October 2012)

kerilli said:



			This!!! 
Sorry, but this 'riding light' thing is a bit of a myth, drives me crazy when used as an excuse, and I was really disappointed to see the H&H vet perpetuate it.
)
		
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I don't think that you can magically reduce your weight on the horse's back - but we all can appreciate how dead weight is harder to lift than firm weight (for a lack of a better phrase).  A heavy rider who has the ability to not flomp down ona  horse's back like a sack of tatties versus one that hasn't got the muscle control to keep it all going the right direction is what I mean by riding "light".


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## Equilibrium Ireland (13 October 2012)

I also would like to commend Big Ben. She is trying. Having watched family members trying to do the same it is a very hard struggle. I also agree with posters that say it could be intolerances to some foods. I think diet products are counter productive. I'm lighter now than when I was in school. When I went to work at the track and was learning how to gallop, I wanted to lose some weight. I went on the slim fast shake thing. This was the late 80's. I lasted 3 days. On the night of the 3rd day I woke up about 12 and raided my roommates food stashes. I had only healthy things. Double fisted I was shoving twinkles in my mouth. I was possessed. Once I binges I thought holy crap that was scary. Never again. 

As far as the skinny comments and people being equally unfair, I went into a local shop to buy a pair of jeans. We struggled to find a pair small enough. Trust me I'm not model skinny. I'm short. Short waisted and bulky shoulders. I don't like my look. Anyway the woman couldn't be more nasty about me needing a small size gene. I tried to lighten her up explaining I had a physical job and that I was just small. She got worse so I walked out. 

When I was little my parents divorced. My dads side of the family were quite vocal that my mother wasn't feeding us enough because we were too skinny. Funny no one was too concerned she was an alcoholic who moved in a pedo. More concerned we were the skinny cousins. So emotionally I would have had plenty of excuses. Trust me. But one thing I will say. I do not make fun of fat people. I can't imagine how difficult the struggle can be. I've watched my family. I do believe it can be emotional and it's an addiction as alcohol, drugs, smoking, ect. We ALL have a vice of some sort including skinny people. Vice in the form of over exercising, throwing up after meals, being anorexic. Control or not control of something. I think with anorexia at least people know the mind needs to be treated in addition to the physical. Not so much with overweight people and I think that's a serious failing. Can you imagine just treating anorexia with a pill? It's kind of what we do with overweight people to an extent. 

But this is about riding and horses. For some it's the only motivation they need. I do feel it's in the best interest of the horse not to be at a certain weight that means you haven't the core or physical strength to be of some help to your horse. But by the same token I've seen some skinny people that are just brutal on a horse. They may have less weight but they use it all wrong and can damage said horse. 

Terri


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## flump (13 October 2012)

Everyone should write down exactly what you eat/drink in a day holding back nothing! I did and wa shocke because all though I didn't clock up big meals the snacking in between was awfull and I didn't even think untill it was written down. I used to eat crisps etc while cooking tea or snickers at the garage when hlgetting fuel etc. It's suprising.


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## ester (13 October 2012)

for PP .. I have a pair.. very warm but impossible to tack up in hence the string


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## alainax (13 October 2012)

Wow what a thread!! 
I have followed it from the start, and have tried to respond but deleted so many times.

I&#8217;ve been riding all my life and only stopped when I felt I was too large for the horses I was riding. My own two passed away a few years ago, so I was riding for some friends. They had asked why I hadn&#8217;t been coming to ride the horses very much and I was very embarrassed to explain to them that I felt too large now. They both thought I was being ridiculous and that I was perfectly fine, but it just didn&#8217;t feel right to me ( I was around 17stone / 238lbs).

I have been to 21 stone / 294lbs and back again, I know full well its challenges and triumphs that it faces. 





7 stone lost (100lbs)







However&#8230; as a rider you MUST know your limitations. All through my &#8220;fat times&#8221; I was never unfit, I climbed a mountain no problem at my heaviest, however&#8230; this didn&#8217;t mean I would feel ok riding. I know I would have been fit enough too, however I didn&#8217;t know of any horse in the world that could have been large enough for me to be happy about being the right size. 

Usually I read these threads and get all defensive of the larger riders, ( even at my lightest I'm still closing in on 200lbs/14stone. However I feel completely happy at this weight to be riding. But we all must know where it stops. I am happy riding however even the way I am just now, I constantly think people are looking at me now thinking im too heavy to ride, juding me etc... But now after reading this thread and seeing how much opinion really does vary.. thats changed for me. Ive realsied that sure some people will, however I cant change this, what I can change is my paranoia! and not be so worried when i truly ride horses that can carry me with ease. 

As for the 22inch saddle&#8230;. Ill admit I don&#8217;t know much about this, however&#8230; to me it seems more of a publicity stunt.. and as a business woman myself &#8211; it worked! They may not ever make one however they have sure got folks talking about it. 


Here&#8217;s a daft analogy, I'm usually a size 16 , I don&#8217;t like shopping n top shop as they tend not to stock many 16&#8217;s or much bigger. I like to shop in next as they go all the way up to 22+. It&#8217;s a comfortable range to shop in. So maybe&#8230; larger riders would feel comfortable shopping in a place that has more sizes than they require&#8230; just a thought. (i could be totally wrong, just what goes through my daft mind when i think of shopping :$)

I think in conclusion we have found that being nasty to fat or slim people  (or even those in the middle) is just plain not nice. We have found that a 22inch saddle may suit a larger rider, however finding a suitable horse ( inc back length etc) may well be impossible. 

We have found that there are many who struggle with their weight, and many who love their horses. We have found our own limits to what we think is right and wrong for riding, and found how much those vary from others who have their own opinions. 

We have all sparked a debate, on this and that side of the pond. And maybe just maybe&#8230; it will open some eyes to what really is ok to be placing on our horses backs, whether it be big long saddles, light riders who think they are too heavy or heavy riders who think it is ok. 

I know it all certainly made me think 

Happy riding  out there everyone, gl to those on thier weight loss battle - if i can do it anyone can! lol!  and to those who dont ride as you think you are too big, get lots a good advice, and read this thread!


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## Littlelegs (13 October 2012)

Excellent description kerilli, the riding light myth irritates me too. The laws of gravity dictate you cannot feel lighter than you actually are, only heavier. 
  And as far as curves, or lack of go, that has no effect on how much of a 'real woman' you are, or how sexy you are. I'm tall, & always been thin. I'm also straight up & down, with little in the way of boobs, hips, bum etc. And I'm every bit as sexy & womanly as my best mate, who has a figure like Jessica rabbit. At times I have been super thin, just because that's how my body is. And that doesn't effect how sexy I am, or womanly, because I'm healthy & confident about the way I look. Being thin isn't always down to eating disorders, or mental issues. Some of us are just like that. I've spent most of my life listening to negative comments from other females about my size. Because I eat lots, I have often been on the end of comments about bulimia too. Lots of times I've had comments along the lines of 'I didn't think you ate that much, I assumed you were the type to pick at a lettuce leaf'. To which when younger I would reply 'I am suprised at you too, I thought you sat eating pies all day'. Now I don't really care. I assume rude comments are either from a lack of intelligence & knowledge, or jealousy. Not jealousy of my size as such, but the fact I'm happy & confident about my figure & they aren't, whatever their size. And tbh, while there are times its a nuisance to have to almost constantly eat, I am incredibly lucky that bread, choc, cheese etc aren't something I ever need to limit myself on. I can eat all the foods I love, without watching the quantities. And I think that, more than anything else inspires jealousy.


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## kerilli (13 October 2012)

It does, littlelegs. I'd now quite like to strangle you.  
It is weird that nowadays it seems fine to be nasty to people if they are thin but absolutely taboo if they are fat (not on the internet obv, it's Open Season on here!) 
The nicest thing anyone has ever said to me about my weight was at a school reunion recently, where a guy (and I thought this was a VERY enlightened thing for a guy to say) asked me "So, it is good genes, or pure willpower?" Made me laugh a lot. I enlightened him... it's the latter. Love of horses & riding + vanity = willpower.


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## flump (13 October 2012)

Littlelegs you sound like my brother he is naturally skinny but that's perfect for his job, he eats alot and doesn't have to worry about what or how much. I WAS jealous of him and I thought it was ok to eat what he Ate but it's not and I'm not him. Some people are natrually skinny and it doesn't make them a 'twig' or Ill or anything like that. I don't however believe people are nYrually fat, o got here on my own! Can't blame genes!


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## foxy1 (13 October 2012)

Emilieu said:



			I can't quote because I am on my phone but just wanted to answer the question about the riding schools looking askance at men. I have a friend who husband is 16 stone of pure muscle, he is about 6'2" and recently wanted to try riding lessons. They looked the length and breath of Scotland and couldn't find a riding school to take him. So yes - riding schools judge men in the same way.
		
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To be fair to the riding schools, what type of horse can tolerate a 16 stone person learning rising trot?


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## *Spider* (13 October 2012)

But surely you'd need a horse with a super long back to support such a length! They should not come behind the 8th (correct me if it's the 10th) rib as it's not supported by the sternum.


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## FionaM12 (13 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			And as far as curves, or lack of go, that has no effect on how much of a 'real woman' you are, or how sexy you are. I'm tall, & always been thin. I'm also straight up & down, with little in the way of boobs, hips, bum etc. And I'm every bit as sexy & womanly as my best mate, who has a figure like Jessica rabbit.
		
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My best pal and I used to get dressed up and hit the town together regularly when we were somewhat younger.

I've always been curvy ("hourglass" as she calls me) whereas she's taller and pretty much straight up and down. However she has the figure of a supermodel, carries herself beautifully and is one of the sexiest-looking women I know. She turns heads everywhere.

Funnily enough, I envied her height and slenderness and she my curves!  

I used to say, "You're so _slim_....." and she'd reply, "Yes, but you can do cleavage!".


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## Wagtail (13 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Excellent description kerilli, the riding light myth irritates me too. The laws of gravity dictate you cannot feel lighter than you actually are, only heavier. 
  And as far as curves, or lack of go, that has no effect on how much of a 'real woman' you are, or how sexy you are. I'm tall, & always been thin. I'm also straight up & down, with little in the way of boobs, hips, bum etc. And I'm every bit as sexy & womanly as my best mate, who has a figure like Jessica rabbit. At times I have been super thin, just because that's how my body is. And that doesn't effect how sexy I am, or womanly, because I'm healthy & confident about the way I look. Being thin isn't always down to eating disorders, or mental issues. Some of us are just like that. I've spent most of my life listening to negative comments from other females about my size. Because I eat lots, I have often been on the end of comments about bulimia too. Lots of times I've had comments along the lines of 'I didn't think you ate that much, I assumed you were the type to pick at a lettuce leaf'. To which when younger I would reply 'I am suprised at you too, I thought you sat eating pies all day'. Now I don't really care. I assume rude comments are either from a lack of intelligence & knowledge, or jealousy. Not jealousy of my size as such, but the fact I'm happy & confident about my figure & they aren't, whatever their size. And tbh, while there are times its a nuisance to have to almost constantly eat, I am incredibly lucky that bread, choc, cheese etc aren't something I ever need to limit myself on. I can eat all the foods I love, without watching the quantities. And I think that, more than anything else inspires jealousy.
		
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I used to be like this. However, it is mainly about attitude to food. I ate to live rather than lived to eat. I never had to restrict myself and people used to say that it wasn't fair as I could eat what I wanted and not put on weight. But actually when I started to look at it, I rarely consumed more than 2500 calories a day. I Ate three good meals and didn't snack inbetween. I had an active job looking after horses and so burned up all those calories. However, a few years ago I started being unable to eat, and that started to make me ill and I lost more and more weight. The pills I am on are the same as those often given to anorexics. But I never had anorexia, I really WANTED to eat. But now I know what it's like to be what my husband jokes 'a normal person' who craves carbs all the time. I started to snack inbetween meals. I thought it great at first as I had so much energy. But then my weight just shot up. Had I not taken control I would be massive by now.

Anyway, what I am saying is that all these people who are slim and appear to be able to eat almost anything without putting on weight, very rarely are actually eating that much at all. It is just because they and others perceive them as having no restrictions on their intake that they give that impression. The exception being teenagers. Now they really CAN put it away and remain stick thin.

A few years ago I used to fetch a friend's 12 year old daughter from school and she also had her pony at my yard. She was pretty overweight, but I couldn't understand it because she always turned down any offer of food I made. Then I realised why. Her mother started to bring her plated up meals to eat in the tack room before riding her pony. I was staggered by the size of them. My six foot husband would have struggled. Another time, she had a (thin) friend here to come and ride her pony. They both had fish and chips brought to them by her Mum from our local chippy. The portions were such that neither me or my husband had ever managed to finish one. She ate hers no problem, and when her friend gave up half way through her portion, she polished that off as well! So for her, she wasn't naturally greedy, she had just been brought up on huge portion sizes. And her mothers cup cakes are to die for!


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## Emilieu (13 October 2012)

Foxy1 I think the riding schools were quite right and when my friend told me I wasn't surprised at all. Just made the point to show that muscled up men are treated in the same way - its not discrimination it is just comments sense for the welfare of the horses x


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## Littlelegs (13 October 2012)

That sounds so familiar fiona, & I think it did a lot for my self esteem when younger. Mid teens I despised my very stick thin figure, especially my legs. She hated her hourglass shape, especially her bum. I remember getting ready for a party together, & we both did the 'I wish I had your...' thing, about each others figures. It was enlightening, because until then neither of us had ever considered our negatives were a plus point to others. 
  Beans, no of course no-ones naturally fat, but genes do play a part as well as lifestyle.
  Kerilli, I do certainly appreciate it, especially given my love of carbs.


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## kerilli (13 October 2012)

the portion size you grow up with is a HUGE deal. I dated a guy for years who was very slim, and his brother was even slimmer, 5'10" and 7 stone. Both had very little appetite. When we went to his parents' for dinner I always came away really hungry and we had to stop at the petrol station for extra food on the way home! His mother would serve small portions, no extra bowls to help yourself from...  contrast with another guy I dated who was the opposite, and both he and his brother ate HUGE portions. When we ate at his house his mother put a couple of loaves of cheap white bread on the table for them to eat WITH their full meal.. and both they and their dad would always put away about 10 slices each + full roast, etc. Trained over many years to eat huge portions and think it normal. 
On hols once with my large relative, she couldn't decide which of two full platters to have for lunch... so had both. About 4-5 hours later we were all discussing supper and she said "I'm really hungry, I only had a light lunch". I was shocked to the core... she'd eaten at least twice as much as me (and I can eat!) and I was still full...
fwiw you can shrink the size of your stomach. When I came out of hospital after a week on a drip I remember clearly that 1/2 a boiled egg filled me up completely, couldn't finish it. Weird.


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## FfionWinnie (13 October 2012)

alainax said:



			I am happy riding however even the way I am just now, I constantly think people are looking at me now thinking im too heavy to ride, juding me etc... But now after reading this thread and seeing how much opinion really does vary.. thats changed for me. Ive realsied that sure some people will, however I cant change this, what I can change is my paranoia! and not be so worried when i truly ride horses that can carry me with ease.
		
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Great post alainax and you look really great. Very pretty and a great figure. I don't think anyone will be thinking anything other than that


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## alainax (13 October 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Great post alainax and you look really great. Very pretty and a great figure. I don't think anyone will be thinking anything other than that 

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I went back to try and edit the post as I chickend out of it but it wont let me now!  Thank you for your comment, thats realy such a beautiful thing to say.


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## Natch (13 October 2012)

May I add that it irks me when people use the term 'thin' to describe someone within a healthy weight range. So you're either fat or thin? Um. No. Fat is unhealthy. Thin is unhealthy. A healthy weight is just that. Don't confuse a normal sized person with a thin person. I think the same irks me about the use of the word 'curvy' and possibly the new to me term fluffy. A woman who is a healthy weight but who is a size 14-16 is perhaps 'curvy'. I was probably in that category at 12 1/2 stone, pear shape and size 12 top 16 bottom. A woman who is a size 22 shouldn't think of herself in the same category as that IMHO, I don't of myself right now . And I agree that in itself is difficult, as people like lisa riley are sexy, she shines with confidence (and She. Can. Dance!)  although the blokes who find her sexy are perhaps fewer in number than those who find some of the slimmer dancers sexy, but that's individual preference for you. Self confidence is sexy, and there's nothing wrong with boosting a woman's self confidence at any size, but to do so using the term 'curvy' is to give the wrong impression that its healthy to be fat, IMO.

I wonder if the attitude, calling people 'twigs', thin, 'in need of a good meal' etc evolved from avoidance of anorexia and bullemia? Or if it is simply another way to express body dysmorphia because 'i don't want to be like that (normal size) because that's unhealthy, I prefer my curves which are sexy'


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## Wagtail (13 October 2012)

alainax said:



			Wow what a thread!! 
I have followed it from the start, and have tried to respond but deleted so many times.

I&#8217;ve been riding all my life and only stopped when I felt I was too large for the horses I was riding. My own two passed away a few years ago, so I was riding for some friends. They had asked why I hadn&#8217;t been coming to ride the horses very much and I was very embarrassed to explain to them that I felt too large now. They both thought I was being ridiculous and that I was perfectly fine, but it just didn&#8217;t feel right to me ( I was around 17stone / 238lbs).

I have been to 21 stone / 294lbs and back again, I know full well its challenges and triumphs that it faces. 

However&#8230; as a rider you MUST know your limitations. All through my &#8220;fat times&#8221; I was never unfit, I climbed a mountain no problem at my heaviest, however&#8230; this didn&#8217;t mean I would feel ok riding. I know I would have been fit enough too, however I didn&#8217;t know of any horse in the world that could have been large enough for me to be happy about being the right size. 

Usually I read these threads and get all defensive of the larger riders, ( even at my lightest I'm still closing in on 200lbs/14stone. However I feel completely happy at this weight to be riding. But we all must know where it stops. I am happy riding however even the way I am just now, I constantly think people are looking at me now thinking im too heavy to ride, juding me etc... But now after reading this thread and seeing how much opinion really does vary.. thats changed for me. Ive realsied that sure some people will, however I cant change this, what I can change is my paranoia! and not be so worried when i truly ride horses that can carry me with ease. 

As for the 22inch saddle&#8230;. Ill admit I don&#8217;t know much about this, however&#8230; to me it seems more of a publicity stunt.. and as a business woman myself &#8211; it worked! They may not ever make one however they have sure got folks talking about it. 


Here&#8217;s a daft analogy, I'm usually a size 16 , I don&#8217;t like shopping n top shop as they tend not to stock many 16&#8217;s or much bigger. I like to shop in next as they go all the way up to 22+. It&#8217;s a comfortable range to shop in. So maybe&#8230; larger riders would feel comfortable shopping in a place that has more sizes than they require&#8230; just a thought. (i could be totally wrong, just what goes through my daft mind when i think of shopping :$)

I think in conclusion we have found that being nasty to fat or slim people  (or even those in the middle) is just plain not nice. We have found that a 22inch saddle may suit a larger rider, however finding a suitable horse ( inc back length etc) may well be impossible. 

We have found that there are many who struggle with their weight, and many who love their horses. We have found our own limits to what we think is right and wrong for riding, and found how much those vary from others who have their own opinions. 

We have all sparked a debate, on this and that side of the pond. And maybe just maybe&#8230; it will open some eyes to what really is ok to be placing on our horses backs, whether it be big long saddles, light riders who think they are too heavy or heavy riders who think it is ok. 

I know it all certainly made me think 

Happy riding  out there everyone, gl to those on thier weight loss battle - if i can do it anyone can! lol!  and to those who dont ride as you think you are too big, get lots a good advice, and read this thread! 

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Great post!

The thing is, I expect that you ARE absolutely fine on the horses you choose to ride. The problem is, that it is often the people that worry about it the most that are fine on their horses. Sadly, it is equally often the people who are way too heavy that don't give a damn. Or are lied to by professionals either too scared to tell them the truth, or who don't want to lose their business. The lady from the other forum who rides the 14hh grullo is an example. She has added to the thread that her vet, chiro etc all say she is fine! Sorry but that is utter tosh! They are either lying to her, or really should not be a professional in their field.


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## Littlelegs (13 October 2012)

Wagtail, that sounds very much like a friend of my daughters, exactly the same on the portion size. Like you, I don't live to eat but I do eat way in excess of 2500 calories even in an office job. I have 4 man size meals a day & plenty of unhealthy snacks. But although I enjoy eating, I don't think of food when not hungry. Working with horses I ate more in a day than most people do in a week. Even now, I eat the same as my boyfriend, who outweighs me by almost 6stone. But I fidget, a lot, & being mainly muscle burn off far more than average even watching tv. And I think maybe like horses, my lack of fat means I burn off calories keeping warm too.


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## kerilli (13 October 2012)

but Naturally, healthy and/or fit people usually are thin, aren't they? I don't regard 'thin' or 'slim' as being negative. For health reasons, it's better to be on the slimmer side of the 'normal' weight range (which has a huge range depending on who you talk to!) than overweight, surely? 
And dragging it back to horses... it's always got to be better for the horse if the rider is on the lighter side than the heavier side. I've never heard of a horse having a problem because the rider was too light. Knew a man who had to do a LOT of work in the gym to build up his strength to ride a 4* horse who got stronger and stronger as they went round a track.... but that's a bit different. That was about strength and effectiveness for a specific horse, not about his weight (which was on the lighter side of normal I guess.)  A polite well-trained horse can be ridden by a tiny rider and go beautifully.


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## Wagtail (13 October 2012)

kerilli said:



			A polite well-trained horse can be ridden by a tiny rider and go beautifully.
		
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So there is hope for the foal at my yard who I will be breaking in 3 years time? He is likely to make 17hh +. His Mum is 16.1 hh and is a pain to ride as she is so gobby. I am hoping he doesn't take after her. She was broken and trained on a show jumping yard where they were hardly ever out of draw reins. I can get her nice and light with a lot of effort, but then her smaller, older and weaker owner gets on and we are back to square one. I am hoping foalie doesn't take after his Mum!


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## Littlelegs (13 October 2012)

It's very hard to define what 'thin' as opposed to healthy is. Bmi is too vague, according to that I'm unhealthy, except when pregnant I have always been under the so called minimum of 18.5. Yet health professionals don't think its an issue for me. Boyfriend is above 25 & always has been as an adult, again he's healthy. If you take a top athletes body, they have virtually no body fat, but lots of muscle. I'm not any thinner than them, I just don't have the same muscle to bulk it out with, so bmi & appearance is very different.


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## kerilli (13 October 2012)

Yes, BMI is utterly rubbish because it does not take fat/muscle ratio into account. Many top athletes are classified as Obese going by their BMI - ridiculous. Body fat percentage is better. Or measuring with pinch test (caliper thingies) maybe.


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## Natch (13 October 2012)

I think 'thin' = underweight, aka too little fat
Slim= a healthy weight.

I think you can be too thin to effectively ride your horse. Too little fat in the body and you can't produce hormones properly, and your strength for things like keeping in balance can be affected. I've seen it happen, and heard the reports if a doctor telling an underweight horse rider to put on fat, as well as muscle, and many people on fitness forums at their peak like to not be below a certain % body fat for performance reasons. Some equine colleges have lower weight limits for safety just as they do upper weight limits.

I agree the less weight a horse has to carry the better. And the fitter the rider, the better. Who was it that said this isn't a sport and all riders aren't athletes? That's not true IMO. All horse riders are athletes taking part in a sport, whether hacking or riding the olympics.


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## Shantara (13 October 2012)

I think the main problem people have, is that it's a live animal you are asking to carry you around...for fun!

I have no issue with large people working with dogs, or cars, or bikes, or anything else that isn't alive (or in the case of a dog, doesn't require sitting on).
Though, even in the case of dogs I'd be a bit iffy. There was a woman who had a dog in my village. She was massive and so was the dog. It never got taken for walks because she was too fat and lazy to be bothered. She would have been much better with a cat. 

My point I guess is that, when living things are involved, you should be able to meet the requirements of the animal and keep it as pain free and happy as possible.


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## Big Ben (13 October 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Excellent description kerilli, the riding light myth irritates me too. The laws of gravity dictate you cannot feel lighter than you actually are, only heavier.
		
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 To quote Scotty "Ye cannae change the laws of physics!" so how can you feel heavier than you are?


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## rhino (13 October 2012)

madeleine1 said:



			some one on her put that they are not but they are.
		
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Who? Where? Please could you find and quote as I certainly didn't see anyone say that...



Capriole said:








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Now *that's* a proper horse! Lovely!


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## eahotson (13 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



 To quote Scotty "Ye cannae change the laws of physics!" so how can you feel heavier than you are?
		
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Like it!


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## FionaM12 (13 October 2012)

Nah said:



			My point I guess is that, when living things are involved, you should be able to meet the requirements of the animal and keep it as pain free and happy as possible.
		
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Sounds right to me.


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## kerilli (13 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



 To quote Scotty "Ye cannae change the laws of physics!" so how can you feel heavier than you are?
		
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An unbalanced, shifting load (as per my 'sack of water in backpack' example) which the carrier has to make extra effort to carry, might, I guess. A beginner rider thumping on the horse's back, maybe maintaining balance by the reins, surely s/he'd be more of a burden than a competent rider of the same weight?
I'm convinced nobody can ride lighter than their physical weight, that's for sure.


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## Littlelegs (13 October 2012)

Ditto kerilli again. If you are slamming up & down & bouncing about, you will feel heavier than you actually are. My little girl is 4stone. Picking her up isn't a struggle, or even carrying her a short distance when she's been ill etc. But, if she falls asleep downstairs, it takes far more effort to carry her cos she's dead weight. Awake, she supports herself, asleep she flops, which makes her feel heavier than she is.


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## Natch (13 October 2012)

I think the term riding light means riding balanced. I agree that one cannot appear to the horse as weighing less than they do, but I think they can appear to be more of a burdern if they ride badly. If we are talking laws of physics, a rider lifting themselves up to rise to the trot and then sitting by relaxing their muscles suddenly lands on the horse's back with more force than one who rises and lowers themself in a controlled movement. The former must be more of a burden than the latter, and to be ridden by someone like that must carry more risk of injury than someone more in balance. The horse may also be expending more energy to correct a lack of balance either by setting their neck against rein pressure or muscle adjustment of the back and abs and even lateral movement to maintain overall stability. I would imagine the burdern of an unbalanced, unfit rider is more than that of a heavier but balanced and fit rider, (within certain parameters). A sleeping toddler is far less of a burdern for us to carry than a tantruming one kicking and wriggling. 

I would argue that fitness to ride is more important than adiposity, certainly at the levels of hacking and light schooling. Whilst fitness and adiposity are often related I believe someone who has a high amount of adiposity can also be relatively fit, and fit enough to do basic riding tasks as I have just described. I say this again before anyone screams at me, this is subject to being within certain parameters, and still being a light enough weight for the mount you are on.


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## Natch (13 October 2012)

Damn, while I was composing my long winded message kerilli and littlelwgs made similar points much better and concisely. Pipped to the post, how rude


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## kerilli (13 October 2012)

if only that was the rudest thing on this thread...


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## Big Ben (13 October 2012)

Naturally said:



			I would argue that fitness to ride is more important than adiposity, certainly at the levels of hacking and light schooling. Whilst fitness and adiposity are often related I believe someone who has a high amount of adiposity can also be relatively fit, and fit enough to do basic riding tasks as I have just described. I say this again before anyone screams at me, this is subject to being within certain parameters, and still being a light enough weight for the mount you are on.
		
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Totally agree, within the parameters, fit is easier to carry than unfit, balanced than unbalanced, competent rather than beginner, all of these are factors in the whole equation.


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## brighthair (13 October 2012)

That fingers round wrist thing that Kerilli mentioned is interesting. Just tried it and I have a good inch gap between my fingers meeting no matter how hard I try!!


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## Zeehorse (13 October 2012)

Naturally said:



			I think the term riding light means riding balanced. I agree that one cannot appear to the horse as weighing less than they do, but I think they can appear to be more of a burdern if they ride badly. If we are talking laws of physics, a rider lifting themselves up to rise to the trot and then sitting by relaxing their muscles suddenly lands on the horse's back with more force than one who rises and lowers themself in a controlled movement. The former must be more of a burden than the latter, and to be ridden by someone like that must carry more risk of injury than someone more in balance. The horse may also be expending more energy to correct a lack of balance either by setting their neck against rein pressure or muscle adjustment of the back and abs and even lateral movement to maintain overall stability. I would imagine the burdern of an unbalanced, unfit rider is more than that of a heavier but balanced and fit rider, (within certain parameters). A sleeping toddler is far less of a burdern for us to carry than a tantruming one kicking and wriggling. 

I would argue that fitness to ride is more important than adiposity, certainly at the levels of hacking and light schooling. Whilst fitness and adiposity are often related I believe someone who has a high amount of* adiposity *can also be relatively fit, and fit enough to do basic riding tasks as I have just described. I say this again before anyone screams at me, this is subject to being within certain parameters, and still being a light enough weight for the mount you are on.
		
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I love that!  I am not sure that's a word, but it should be.

I completely disagree with saying that the weight/fit rider is easier to carry as opposed to the light /unfit  is a MYTH.

I would focus more on the skill level of the rider.  A skilled rider knows how to rise to the trot (post the trot as we say in N. Am.) such that she has less impact on the horse's back.  She knows how to connect the horse to the bit and encourage it to round up and engage its' core muscles, things that bring the back up and keep the horse in a position to maintain soundness there.

The unskilled rider will flop down hard on the back such that the horse will drop his back (which means will brace the back muscles but loosen the abs) raise the neck, hollow out and try to run out from under this painful rider.

So, it isn't just weight, it's skill .  


And, yes we do have stining nettles here.  They grow waist tall or more in the spring and are a tasty treat if you pick them young and boil them up like spinach.  They also have medicinal uses (the Indians used them a lot) but I dont know.  They are very high in Iron,so make some nettle tea if you are anemic.

Oh, and the young lady in blond and graduation get up: you could be a model, you are so pretty!


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## Mongoose11 (13 October 2012)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=11155663#post11155663

For anyone who is interested, I have well and truly received the kick up the ar*e and the encouragement I need to get going and I am going to do it. The link above will take you to my new thread that I am going to use as a kind of diary as I attempt to beat obesity once and for all. I would be grateful of support, advice, any words of encouragement that you can offer along the way.

It also has my ugly mug on there so you can see exactly what 17 odd stone of Billie1007 looks like!


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## Natch (13 October 2012)

Zeehorse said:



			I love that!  I am not sure that's a word, but it should be.

I completely disagree with saying that the weight/fit rider is easier to carry as opposed to the light /unfit  is a MYTH.

I would focus more on the skill level of the rider.  A skilled rider knows how to rise to the trot (post the trot as we say in N. Am.) such that she has less impact on the horse's back.  She knows how to connect the horse to the bit and encourage it to round up and engage its' core muscles, things that bring the back up and keep the horse in a position to maintain soundness there.

The unskilled rider will flop down hard on the back such that the horse will drop his back (which means will brace the back muscles but loosen the abs) raise the neck, hollow out and try to run out from under this painful rider.

So, it isn't just weight, it's skill .
		
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Adiposity is a word. I know it all too well from my recent studies 

I'll let you carry the 2 year old child who is throwing a tantrum then  I'll be carrying his 4 year old impeccably behaved brother 

You can have all the skill in the world, if you are not fit enough, you won't be able to use it for long.

It'll be a combination of lots of things that decides if a rider is an unfair burden on their horse or not. Sadly I suspect that something someone has already said in this thread is true, that those who need to hear the advice will be deaf to it. They'll make excuses about "those mean HHOers" bitching about them and making fun. Sadly several posters HAVE been bitchy and poked fun (on both sides of this argument) so the fact that many of us have debated this sensibly will get lost in the ether to those who really should listen, even if it is upsetting to hear.


Agree about blonde person by the way, very pretty


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## Wagtail (13 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=11155663#post11155663

For anyone who is interested, I have well and truly received the kick up the ar*e and the encouragement I need to get going and I am going to do it. The link above will take you to my new thread that I am going to use as a kind of diary as I attempt to beat obesity once and for all. I would be grateful of support, advice, any words of encouragement that you can offer along the way.

It also has my ugly mug on there so you can see exactly what 17 odd stone of Billie1007 looks like!
		
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Well done Billy1007. I have commented on your thread. You were beautiful even at 18 odd stone. Just think what you will look like when you reach your 12 stone target.


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## Laura6544 (13 October 2012)

Billie1007 said:



http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=11155663#post11155663

For anyone who is interested, I have well and truly received the kick up the ar*e and the encouragement I need to get going and I am going to do it. The link above will take you to my new thread that I am going to use as a kind of diary as I attempt to beat obesity once and for all. I would be grateful of support, advice, any words of encouragement that you can offer along the way.

It also has my ugly mug on there so you can see exactly what 17 odd stone of Billie1007 looks like!
		
Click to expand...

Hi Billie1007! 
I have read this thread with interest and felt that I wanted to post, not to air my opinions as such, but because weight issues and horses have been two dominating features in my life for many years. I havn't posted till now because I didn't really feel the need to express my opinions just wanted to tell how it was for me and that's a bit self indulgent but hopefully what I have to say might help/encourage you. I'm posting on this thread as it might help others too. Some of what I say might sound harsh but I really believe changing my mental attitude is what ultimately made me loose and maintain my weight.
I have always been fat, I remember being taken to a diet class with my grandma when I was 10 years old, I weighed 10 stone, I was shy and embarrassed by my weight all through school, kids can be cruel. My family told me I was big boned, I think they did this to make me feel better.
In my early 20's I became more confident about my appearance and do think at that time I wasn't unhappy with my weight, I'm 5ft 3ins and I was around 11 and a half stone then.
I have ridden since I was about 6 years old, there is a picture in my sig in my early 20's on my horse Woody.

I had a bad fall about 6 years ago and broke my back, I stopped riding for 3 years, I put on a tonne of weight and at my heaviest was 14st 7lbs and a size 20.
My OH has always said to me he doesn't care what size weight I am as long as I'm happy but if I'm unhappy he doesn't want to hear me whinge about it he wants me to DO SOMETHING about it. At 14st 7lbs I was unhappy but in denial.

 I had the opportunity to ride a wonderful horse and at the same time help out my friend who owned her but it didn't sit easy with me, in my heart of hearts I knew I was too heavy for her so I decided I wouldn't ride her till I had reached 11 stone.
I now realise that one of the reasons why my weight has been such an issue in my life is that I have let the opinions/stereotypes of other people/media, good and bad, interfere with my mental attitude. One day you hear people talking about 'real' woman and fuller figures being sexier, the next we are in the middle of an obesity epidemic. There's fat genes, thin genes, new diets, size 0 scandals, the world is obsessed. When the foodie/comfort eater in me wanted to eat a whole packet of biscuits I thought of the articles telling us about how airbrushed models are unrealistic role models for women and in my head this cancelled out the bit of my brain saying 'you're overweight and this isn't healthy'. Now I'm not saying that I don't agree that the media has a lot to answer for BUT a crucial change was when I decided to take a real good look at myself and decide what I wanted and go back to basics. In the beginning I dropped my calorie intake to around 1500 per day, ate 3 meals per day, if I did snack it was healthy options such as fruit. I also tried to opt for low saturated fat foods. I also weighed my food and realised my previous dinners amounted to around 3 portions! This sounds a bit extreme but I needed to not kid myself about what I was eating, I needed to be honest with myself.
I tried not to feel sorry for myself when I refused puddings, when someone at work has a birthday and they buy everyone cakes I said I wanted a banana. No point being fed up about it, fact is I couldn't continue to eat the way I did and loose weight. Do I wish I could eat everything I wanted? Of course I do but no amount of moping about it is going to make it so. Instead I patted myself on the back and thought 'one step nearer to riding that horse'.
I reached my goal of 11 stone and at 32 years of age was the same size as I was at 18. I rode my friends horse, it was amazing. Everyone said how fabulous I looked and I felt great. 
So I was a size 14 again and thats ok because I was big boned right? Everyone has always told me that, I always believed it. I've always been a physically strong person, somehow this fitted in with me being 'big boned'.
Thing was I carried on eating healthy because this was a change of lifestyle for me, because the deal had always been 'get to 11 stone and you can ride the horse' this also meant 'go back above it and you have to stop'. 
So where am I now? 8 1/2 stone, size 8 and maintained for 2 years. Is it easy? The answer is no. Is it worth it? Yes. Odd thing is now I get the 'Its alright for you you're skinny' comments. I smile inside because half the problems people have is because they spend too much time feeling sorry for themselves because they perceive other people as being able to eat what they want and be thin. Some people are that way, some work hard at it, in any case its irrelevant because you have to work with what you are given and wishing it any other way is just detrimental to your attitude to loose weight. If you constantly tell  yourself that its harder for you than every one else how is this going to help matters?

So after this epic post thats probably bored the pants off everyone, how heavy is too heavy to ride a horse? Put a dozen photo's up and I could probably voice an opinion on each one, couldn't we all. If one picture got a resounding 'Yes, you're too heavy to ride' vote would this stop the person from riding said horse, maybe/maybe not. Ok I'm a wimp and won't commit but if anyone out there harbours some small doubt that they may be too heavy for their horse because they are 'overweight' be sensible, be honest, and make the decision not based on what other people think but on what your conscience tells you. 

And finally, picture of me having a lesson on a fantastic schoolmaster, something I wouldn't have done unless I had changed my attitude towards food.


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## kerilli (13 October 2012)

wow Laura6544, that is absolutely inspirational. thank you for sharing. great photo.


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## FfionWinnie (13 October 2012)

Laura that's what I've been trying to say far less eloquently than you. Excellent post and well done you, you look wonderful.


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## DH1 (13 October 2012)

What a great post Laura

It's been an amazing journey for you. 
We've shared some highs - me fetching ever decreasing sizes in Jods to the changing room, because you wouldn't try the smallest ones first just in case they were too small 
And some lows- the last stubborn bit of weight that really took some will power to shift

It's been life changing for you, and you should be really proud of what you have achieved.


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## dominobrown (13 October 2012)

Billie- You are really pretty, good luck on your journey and keep us all posted! 

Laura- Wow, you went from a size 20 to a size 8?? You are amazing inspiration. 

I can't believe this thread has turned out this way... I really thought it would turn into a huge bitching  contest, but I am actually finding it really helpful!


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## murphysmummy (13 October 2012)

Laura you've actually made me cry! Everything you've said is so true. I feel so sorry for myself being overweight and I always have an excuse for eating rubbish, I'm tired, stressed, its there, one won't hurt but now I've read your story and I've realised its all in my head! At the end of the day I am in control of what I shovel into my mouth. So...here's to being healthy, losing weight and making me happy!! And Laura, truly, thank you Xx


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## Laura6544 (13 October 2012)

murphysmummy said:



			Laura you've actually made me cry! Everything you've said is so true. I feel so sorry for myself being overweight and I always have an excuse for eating rubbish, I'm tired, stressed, its there, one won't hurt but now I've read your story and I've realised its all in my head! At the end of the day I am in control of what I shovel into my mouth. So...here's to being healthy, losing weight and making me happy!! And Laura, truly, thank you Xx
		
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Goodness me, you'll start me crying now! Its all gone a bit Oprah 

But seriously, after I wrote that I hovered for 10 minutes over the 'post' button. If it helps just one person its worth it. It sucks being miserable, dont stand for it!


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## murphysmummy (13 October 2012)

I'm so glad you did post it! You have definately helped me and tomorrow is the start of a healthier, happier murphysmummy!!! 
This forum is great for a good Oprah moment!! 
Thank you again xxx


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## TrasaM (13 October 2012)

dominobrown said:



			Billie- You are really pretty, good luck on your journey and keep us all posted! 

Laura- Wow, you went from a size 20 to a size 8?? You are amazing inspiration. 

I can't believe this thread has turned out this way... I really thought it would turn into a huge bitching  contest, but I am actually finding it really helpful! 

Click to expand...

I was thinking exactly the same thing.  It's had it's twists and turns and ups and downs but there have been some lovely posts from some very inspiring people. Best of luck to all of you with your weight issues.   and Laura, wow indeed. Great post.


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## Big Ben (13 October 2012)

It's always great to hear from those who have fought and won, and more importantly maintained their weight loss, and I love to have the positive role models that tell me I can do this as well.


Laura, you are awesome, congratulations

I was searching for something this morning and came across this:




			First, thank you for being here for Horses and Horse people! And I would love to sit with a cup of coffee and talk with you all day!! Just reading your words of advice is awesome!!

    Now, I am a 5'2, 300lb woman. I LOVE horses, I learned how to ride on an old pro. She was a great horse. I now however am becomming scared to ride another horse. I have a 2year old gelding which I have raised from day one and a 3 year old filly that I rescued. She had more or less no touch from humans, she seems to have bonded with me, once, sense I have gotten her has she tryed to kick me, and that was when I was touching her all over, I touched her utter. I gave her a "punch" in the side and told her not with me you dont'. She now allows me to touch her anywhere.

    Neither of them is trained, although I have been working the gelding, he's already been saddled, & I have made plans to send the filly out. I am still worried about not being in control of my body. I dont think I am a bad rider, I am "green"... I guess my questions are... If my horse(s) trust me will I be a better rider and what do you suggest for me as to learn how to control my own body? As a heavier rider I feel I must ride a larger horse (14.2hh if muscular and above. Falling off from this hight is a LONG LONG way). Are there things I can do? Like ride a barrel or something? I know I am not the only LARGE AND LOVELY RIDER (hehehe).

    Thank and your pages are great help... Thank you! 

No, I don't think you'll be a better rider if your horses trust you. I think your horses will be better horses if they trust you.

Loss of confidence is the result of some action or actions that psychologically convince you that you do not have the capabilities you once had to do what you once did. That action can be a fall, a general realization that you do not bounce as you once did or even the realization that you are no longer immortal.

Or it can be your subconscious mind's way of telling you that it doesn't trust your body to do what you would like it to do.

One of my interests is tracking. Tracking requires that you observe. One of the things I have observed about heavier people is that extra weight exponentially affects their balance. It certainly affects their flexibility. Balance and flexibility are major pluses when riding a horse.

When I say that weight exponentially affects your balance I mean that each level of additional weight has ten times more effect than the level before it. If we use ten pounds as the measure level, the third extra ten pound is not 30 times (3x10) more hindering, it is 1000 times more hindering (10x10x10). It does not take long before you are up to a level of effect that is extremely difficult to get over.

I see a lot of riders and I deal with a lot of horse problems. However, the percentage of those who are greatly overweight is rather small. That doesn't mean the heavier individuals are less interested in horses than the rest. It just means they have to put greater effort and energy into horses than others. They reach a point at which they simply cannot meet the demands.

There is also the matter of inertia. When a heavier person gets their weight moving it takes more time and energy to change its direction or to stop it than it does a lighter person. If I am moving at 15 mph I kinetically weigh 2700lbs. According to what you say you weigh your kinetic weight would be 4500lbs at the same speed.

Mounted direction and speed change forces would play a greater role. You would require greater control and balance than someone of lesser stature. Perhaps your mind sees this and programs your confidence accordingly.

A heavier person, especially one with a shorter stature would also have a higher center of gravity to further complicate balancing. The heavier the person, the more difficult it is for the rider to maintain balance. The heavier the rider, the more difficult it is for the horse to maintain balance. The "greener" the rider and the "greener" the horse, the greater the risk of injury, The heavier the rider, the more serious the injuries are likely to be.

Our self-preservation instincts throw up some serious roadblocks under these circumstances.

Unfortunately I know of no techniques that would help you regain the level of confidence you once had short of losing one pound.

It is extremely easy to say the answer to your problem lies in your weight. However it is not easy to deal with that weight but it must be dealt with if you wish to be confident, flexible and balanced enough to ride. When we say we need to lose X number of pounds it becomes a hercleaun task. Therefore, it seems to make more sense to deal with just one pound. One pound is easily do-able (at least more easier doable than 10, 20, or more) and repeatable (you did it once you can do it again).

Going after that *one* pound over the time your horses are undergoing their training will bring your confidence up to a more suitable level to match the increased capabilities of your horses.

Best of luck,

PS: Within minutes of posting the original email to my Horses Discussion List http://MarvWalker.com/horslist.htm one of the list members posts this response to the original email...
		
Click to expand...

http://marvwalker.com/larger.htm

I found it very interesting, and just love the thought that every pound makes a difference o Yes I realize it did on the way up as well) Large amounts of weight to loose can make you scared of even starting, but YUP, I can make a difference and lose a pound, and another, and another.............


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## rhino (13 October 2012)

Big Ben said:



			I found it very interesting, and just love the thought that every pound makes a difference o Yes I realize it did on the way up as well) Large amounts of weight to loose can make you scared of even starting, but YUP, I can make a difference and lose a pound, and another, and another.............
		
Click to expand...

Thank you, I found it interesting too!  If horses are sensitive enough to detect a teeny fly landing anywhere on their body they can certainly tell when their owners have lost a lb or a few lb.

I think it's been mentioned on here, though perhaps not enough, but the horse's own weight must have a huge impact on the longevity of its healthy life. If we think it is bad for the horse to be carrying 50 or 100 kg of extra person for 20 minutes a day, how much worse is it to be carrying 50 or 100 kg extra of itself, every minute of every day. Obesity in horses is every bit as problematical as obesity in humans. I was heartened by the US forum that in general the horses themselves were not obese!


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## Littlelegs (14 October 2012)

I think too there's too little thought put into the long term damage caused by a too heavy rider. I always wanted to breed from my 14.2, preferably something to make a nice sporty 13.2. After damaging her ligaments, although 100% recovered, vets agreed the burden of carrying a foal, even a relatively small foal from a small sports pony would hasten the onset of arthritis. Now although I know a foal is 24/7, you have to wonder how carrying a too heavy rider is comparable. There isn't enough research to be conclusive, but I do wonder about the reasons mine is so supple still at 23. Still rolls over uphill, marches out tracking up after being stabled overnight, & basically resembles a horse in its prime. Despite competing & hunting most of her life & being high mileage. Certainly she doesn't have supplements, magnetic rugs, or anything similar to try & slow the ageing process. In part its down to management, lots of turnout & exercise, but I do wonder if in part the fact that 99.9% of her ridden work has been with riders under the 10% mark.


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## Big Ben (14 October 2012)

The thing is Littlelegs, you will never know, if you posted that thought on a US board you will be flooded by replies from people who started their horse at 2 years, loaded it with 30% of its weight, rode the range every day for 25 years and they are still going strong.


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## Wagtail (14 October 2012)

All I know is that my knackered TB that has hock arthritis and severe kissing spine was previously ridden by a very overweight lady. I had him on loan with view to buy and she signed him over to me as soon as she found out he was 'knackered'. Said she had no room for him so would PTS if I returned him.


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## Littlelegs (14 October 2012)

I don't think mines at all unusual in still going strong in her 20's. But ime at that age its more common to find they take a little longer to warm up, or come out of their stables not quite flexing the same for the first few strides, or with filled legs. And few of that age can roll over uphill successfully. Especially after a very full life of high impact riding. The other thing is the few injuries she's had have all been as a result of specific external causes. Even the ligament damage was down to idiots with air rifles in her field, on a hot day with the ground like concrete. But I agree its hard to research, there's too many factors to find enough subjects for conclusive research. 
  30yr old kids ponies still in full work aren't unusual, whereas there are few tbs still competing at 30. Obviously there are too many factors, such as breed, etc to conclude its because the former is rarely ridden by kids anywhere near their maximum weight carrying capacity. But, I also know plenty of small, fine, non native ponies who are still going strong at ages few horses are. And ponies like that are again outgrown height, ability, class wise, long before the riders weight becomes a concern. I'll be first to admit that I'm sure the reasons for longevity are down to more than just % rider weight, & its almost impossible to research. But my own thoughts are that % rider weight is also a factor in continued flexibility/soundness/health.


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## eahotson (14 October 2012)

Harsh and unsympathetic schooling can cause lameness.Read Tug of War by Dr.Gerd Heuschmann .He is a Bereiter (master rider) in Germany and a vet.As children are rarely INTO schooling it might explain, at least in part, why their ponies go on for ever and many horses don't.Correct schooling of course, is very helpful to a horse.


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## Littlelegs (14 October 2012)

I wouldn't say kids in general aren't into schooling. But I agree they are less likely to be guilty of incorrect schooling, as they generally do so under experienced guidance, eg instructor, pc, horsey parent etc. And like I said, I don't think weight is the only reason, there are many, but imo weight is still one of those many factors.


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## eahotson (14 October 2012)

One of MANY factors.Maybe not even the most important one.


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