# Riding school - having to give the horses a good boot??



## stacey87 (14 November 2013)

Hi,

I'm completely new to riding only been riding about a month and half i'm currently learning to canter as my sitting and rising trot are coming along very nicely, I do like my riding school and my instructor is very good but i just have an issue with constantly being told to give them a right whack or bootful to get them going. I know riding school horses are different to say an everyday none riding school horse, it's just i don't want to eventually get a share or something and end up flat on my face because your everyday horse doesn't need a bootful to get going. I would just really like to be told how to ride with light leg pressure and instructing the horse what i want them to do instead of putting the boot in or using my whip. I also have the issue that when steering i'm only being taught to use my reins not my legs?? Is anyone else having these issues?? What can i do to change this? I just really want to learn to ride properly and not just use brute force to get them moving!!
Any advice would be muchly appreciated 


stacey.


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## 9tails (14 November 2013)

I don't think your riding school is much cop unfortunately.  Yes, riding school horses are generally a lot more forgiving of rider error but they shouldn't need booting or whacking to get going.  They sound completely sour.


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## stacey87 (14 November 2013)

This is what i thought!!! I know there more forgiving but i really hate having to give them a boot or whipping to get them going, i was hoping to be taught PROPERLY with instructing the horse, using leg pressure and so on, i really want to learn properly. Maybe someone might know of a good riding school or a freelance instructor that has there own horses they use around the Bedforshire area preferably near to Shefford or Clophill???
Thanks for your reply though


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## Booboos (14 November 2013)

I think if you really want to learn properly you need to commit to a couple of years of lessons on the lunge with no stirrups/reins on a well schooled horse. This will allow you to develop a feel for how to ride the horse and the correct position so that you do not need to kick or whack a horse. 

Unfortunately if you sit on a more receptive horse off the lunge as a beginner things are not likely to go well. The slightest weight change on your part will be interpreted as an aid by the horse and you may find the horse is doing all sorts of things you didn't think you asked for.


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## stacey87 (14 November 2013)

I completely understand where your coming from but the point i'm trying to figure out is if i should be schooled that i need to give them a whack or bootful to get them going even if there not that receptive i thought i should be taught to use leg pressure and give the horse an instruction, not brute force. I know that things would be different with a receptive horse as they respond to different movements but i just don't think its right i'm being taught like this surely i should be taught properly. Thanks for the replys though


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## webble (14 November 2013)

stacey87 said:



			I completely understand where your coming from but the point i'm trying to figure out is if i should be schooled that i need to give them a whack or bootful to get them going even if there not that receptive i thought i should be taught to use leg pressure and give the horse an instruction, not brute force. I know that things would be different with a receptive horse as they respond to different movements but i just don't think its right i'm being taught like this surely i should be taught properly. Thanks for the replys though 

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No its not right and yes you should be taught properly if I were you I would look for a different school


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## MadBlackLab (14 November 2013)

Sound like horse is sour and needs a holiday or new career. I think you need to find a new riding school that doesn't teach riders to boot the horses cause one day it could cause an accident on the wrong horse


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## stacey87 (14 November 2013)

Yeah I'm looking for a new school for both reasons of I hate giving them a boot I feel awful and I don't want to end up in an accident because of it, I've put up a thread to see if anyone knows of a good school round my way am also going to look at a couple and watch some lessons. She's a lovely horse as well I think she'd benefit from a career change bless her  
Thanks everyone


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## Kungfoo-hamster (14 November 2013)

I have sent you a personal message


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## p87 (14 November 2013)

I agree with everyone who says find a new riding school. What you will eventually find is if you put up being taught to ride harshly, one day you will get on a decent horse and have no idea how to ride it. After years of riding sour school ponies who detested their working life I had to essentially learn to ride all over again. The difference is amazing.


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## MadBlackLab (14 November 2013)

p87 said:



			I agree with everyone who says find a new riding school. What you will eventually find is if you put up being taught to ride harshly, one day you will get on a decent horse and have no idea how to ride it. After years of riding sour school ponies who detested their working life I had to essentially learn to ride all over again. The difference is amazing.
		
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Very true^^^^^^ 

Its like you learn to drive then once you past test you learn to properly drive


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## Mrs. Jingle (14 November 2013)

I really don't think you have to go to the extreme of riding on the lunge for two years to learn to ride properly. What a notion, who would ever bother to learn? 

If you find a decent riding school and some well schooled horses you will rapidly learn the correct way to ride. It will probably incorporate some lessons on the lunge. But if you find one that suggests you stay on the lunge for the next two years, I would save your money and go elsewhere.

Well done you for recognising that what you are being asked to do to these poor sour working horses, is not the way to learn or to treat any horse. I hope you soon find a more reputable riding school.


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## Elsiecat (14 November 2013)

If you like your instructor could you perhaps find a part loan and ask your instructor to teach you on this horse?


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## ANP Lincs (14 November 2013)

I have only been riding a comparatively short time also, although I have had the (luxury?) of being able to ride three different horses and it has been quite interesting and in my opinion useful, to observe how some react better than others.

Luckily the riding school I use is highly regarded locally and their horses all seem 'happy at work'.

I was started with a lovely cob, who certainly doesn't need whipping into action, small squeeze, light kick only if you need it, and is very forgiving of learner error. As I was getting on quite well with her, I was moved onto a slightly larger TB (dressage trained and extensively competed). Steep learning curve! He will only do what you want if 'asked' in the correct manner - which I considered useful to learn. As the instructor said 'there's no point learning everything on a 'push button pony', and then thinking you can ride anything'... fair comment in my opinion...

Luckily I also occasionally get the chance to hack out on another cob, who responds better to the leg than the rein and also has a lovely bouncy trot - so much so, when I went back to the school cob, I was waiting for the 'lift' that never came ....

As other posters have commented, it is nice that someone early in their riding career can already appreciate the potential issues that being 'over heavy handed' can bring in the future. 

For my part I was told once 'don't be afraid to kick harder/use whip when required, the pony isn't made of glass - but always remember there's a time and place and they shouldn't need it all the time'

Wise words?


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## Rolffy (14 November 2013)

Stacey, I returned to riding lessons after a very long break and was really disappionted to find that nothing had changed in terms of being taught as you describe. I too know that I'm not being taught to ride correctly but good riding schools seem to be really hard to find. Not wanting to highjack your thread but if anyone could recommend and good riding school in the south northamptonshire area I would really appricate it


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## splashgirl45 (14 November 2013)

how about finding somewhere with a mechanical horse?  i had been riding for many years and had my own horse and, when i started to do some dressage i realised i was riding crooked and needed a refresher.  i booked a course with a local instructer who has a mechanical  horse and found it really helpful, so may help you to learn to sit properly and use the correct aids without worrying about the horse..  i would definately recommend....


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## stacey87 (14 November 2013)

My instructor has told me that I'm one of the lucky ones who naturally sits in a great position with good posture it's just the fact of only being taught to ride with kicking and whipping constantly and hearing "give her a proper boot" I know sometimes you have to be firmer but only when required in my eyes! I'm just trying to find a good school as a lot of you say they are hard to find especially as I live out in the sticks which you'd think was better for schools lol just not great ones so far. I would love to ride and just give a little squeeze and a little kick when required that's how I thought it'd be ANP Lincs I wish I had your experience  thanks again everyone you've all been great with your response fingers crossed I find somewhere to teach me


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## Booboos (14 November 2013)

MrsJingle said:



			I really don't think you have to go to the extreme of riding on the lunge for two years to learn to ride properly. What a notion, who would ever bother to learn?
		
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Fairly popular way of learning to ride in the continent. By those who use it it is considered the best way to develop a seat and feel for a horse without picking up bad habits from an unbalaned animal.


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## MasterBenedict (14 November 2013)

Just to play devils advocate and look at it from the other point of view.....

I used to teach at a riding school and I think it's great that you want to learn properly without compromising the horses welfare. HOWEVER, I distinctly remember a handful of clients that were just sooooo gentle with their aids that when I asked them to give the horse a 'boot' (for lack of a better term) they would give the horse an aid which I would not consider to be detrimental or harsh. I am not saying that I agree with the pony club style kicking and booting that has been discussed here, but take a look at your aids - do you tend to just 'tickle' the horse with your legs or do you really mean it when you give your aids? Riding school horses are notorious for ignoring riders that they don't feel like they mean it.

If you like the instructor and the yard in general why not try bringing this up with them in a lesson and ask exactly WHY they want you to be stronger with your aids? Their reply should help you easily decide if they have the horses welfare in mind.


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## stacey87 (14 November 2013)

I do see what your saying masterbenedict and yes I may be a little gentle sometimes but when I'm being made to kick harder and harder and having "if you don't give her a bootful I'll come over there myself and slap her on her arse" shouted concerns me!!! I do like my instructor she does know her stuff she's just very hands on shall we say and I do worry about the appearance of the horses there not under weight just look a bit tatty I know there not loved pets like most peoples horses but they could do with some TLC. I know my aids could do with some more I mean it but when I feel like I'm slightly beating the horse I don't want to mean it but if I was being taught properly and felt like the horses welfare was priority my mean it aids would be I mean it as I would feel better if you see what I mean  I do know what you mean though but I just don't think the horses welfare is priority anymore it probably was when they started but it doesn't look like it now


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## Skib (14 November 2013)

O Happy learners who do find a teacher who gives lunge lessons month after month (plus a little freedom to wander unattached).  My OH and grand daughter both learned that way. It is expensive as it takes a long time and it is a priviledge to be taught by someone so skilled.

That is not the way most beginners are taught in the UK. Because there are mile stones by which to measure progress and there is pressure to meet them - walk trot and canter as soon as possible, so the student can qualify to join a class or go on hacks. Beginners may well be taught by the least experienced teachers who will do it by the BHS rule book as they are taking or have just taken their Teaching Test.

By all means leave your present school and go off in search of a better teacher and more sensitive horses. But understand that there are  different approaches to teaching riding, and the mass produced product is designed to help as many people as possible learn to ride in  a perfectly routine manner.
There is a very good book on learning to ride Getting the Most from Riding Lessons by Michael Smith which describes the different horses and ponies allocated in the lessons and how one's riding and cues may need to vary according to the horse and its own particular ways. As a long term riding school /trail ride rider  my priority when handed a horse is to ride it in the manner I am told. The owner or instructor knows what each horse is used to.
No, I dont like kicking a RS horse but on the first meeting it may be necessary as an initial message - after which a tiny cue may gain significance. It is called "intent". I would of course prefer you to find a brilliant riding teacher, but as someone who started my own learning in a BHS routine - I can reassure you that nothing you learn will be wasted. Nor your time in the saddle. One can always progress to specialist teachers, classical lunge lessons or more sensitive horses.  I thought of it  a bit like moving on from GCSE to A levels.


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## MadBlackLab (14 November 2013)

stacey87 said:



			I do see what your saying masterbenedict and yes I may be a little gentle sometimes but when I'm being made to kick harder and harder and having "if you don't give her a bootful I'll come over there myself and slap her on her arse" shouted concerns me!!! 




			This would concern me too. Shows no respect for the horse's welfare. I've seen instructors slap a horse on the arse with bad consequences
		
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## MasterBenedict (14 November 2013)

This would concern me too. Shows no respect for the horse's welfare. I've seen instructors slap a horse on the arse with bad consequences
		
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Hmmm me to - not pleasant seeing one of my colleagues get a broken knee from a Shetland who decided she got to close in a lesson and got defensive.....no doubt wondering if it was going to 'get a smack' (hadn't been with us long, came from another school and my colleague only went up to it to help adjust the stirrups!) Dread to think where the kick would have landed had it been a bigger horse....


OP, in that case I would look for somewhere else where you feel more at ease about the horses care and the teaching methods


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## p87 (14 November 2013)

MasterBenedict said:



			Hmmm me to - not pleasant seeing one of my colleagues get a broken knee from a Shetland who decided she got to close in a lesson and got defensive.....no doubt wondering if it was going to 'get a smack' (hadn't been with us long, came from another school and my colleague only went up to it to help adjust the stirrups!) Dread to think where the kick would have landed had it been a bigger horse....
		
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I went up to help a rider with her stirrups in a riding school and got kicked in the back. Horse was quite a big cobby type, extremely lazy, and as I hadn't been there very long didn't 100% know the horses personality. I halted the rider in the centre and walked over, and luckily I saw the kick coming just in time to turn slightly and got the kick in my back. Still ended up in A&E, but had I not turned it could have been so much worse. 

When I returned to work everyone was like "Oh yeah, he always does that, didn't you know?" Erm... I do now... cheers guys! 8 years later my back still gives me grief everyday.


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## Booboos (15 November 2013)

stacey87 said:



			I do see what your saying masterbenedict and yes I may be a little gentle sometimes but when I'm being made to kick harder and harder and having "if you don't give her a bootful I'll come over there myself and slap her on her arse" shouted concerns me!!!
		
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While there is a small chance your instructor will get kicked doing this, it's hardly a welfare issue! If you are that concerned with horse welfare you will be much better going the lunge lessons route because by far the worst thing for a horse is the unbalanced weight of a beginner rider on its back. Inevitably your weight will be all over the place, which will put pressure on the horse's back, one of its most sensitive areas, much worse than any kick you could deliver at this stage. If you do sit on a more sensitive horse you are likely to give too strong a leg aid, the horse will move forwards suddenly unbalancing you and, completely understandably like most beginners, you will use your hand to balance, wacking the horse in the mouth. That is all a lot worse than a kick. There is a reason riding schools keep very ploddy, switched off horses, and that is because beginners need them.

The other thing you will need to learn is reacting quickly to the horse, so if the horse is unresponsive to a light aid you must immediately do something about it. You will see people like Carl Hester demonstrating this, light aid, no reaction, quick boot, allow the horse to go forwards. If you give light aid, nothing happens, another light aid, nothing happens, another light aid, nothing happens, etc. you are not doing the horse any favours - you are merely desisitising it to the aids so that it will need an even stronger aid to get it going in the end.


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## paddi22 (15 November 2013)

if someone is only riding month or so, i'd imagine they have just had a handful of lessons. I would completely understand why they would get put on a plod. If a complete beginner is put on a horse that is responsive to a squeeze then it's too easy for the horse to take off into canter/too fast trot if the beginner gripped or bounced legs against the side.  Anyone I've seen beginning riding (naturally!) is unbalanced and doesn't have the correct control of their legs. As another poster said, what feels like a boot to a beginner is often much lighter in reality as they don't have the correct muscle control in place to really give a sharp aid in the correct place.  If I owned a riding school and I had a good schoolhorse who would go with a light tap, then I wouldn't stick a beginner on it as it's mouth would get destroyed by someone who hadn't grasped contact yet and would be using the reins to balance at times.  I'd def start every beginner on a plod and then upgrade them once the had some basics in place.

Saying that I have several friends who are from abroad and they all had their first month or so of lessons on the lunge. It definitely stood to them because all of them have fantastic seats and are lovely riders.


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## Booboos (15 November 2013)

I'd also wonder where RS are supposed to find horses that are sensitive to the leg but dead to the mouth because getting the horse going is one thing, stoping it quite another! A horse with a sensitive mouth can only be stoped with a half-halt which is primarily a movement done with the seat and legs and not with the hands - what chance does a beginner have of performing a subtle half-halt?


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## Gloi (15 November 2013)

These horses will weigh you up the second you get on them. If they know that you are reluctant to give them a harder kick if they ignore lighter aids they will take advantage of it and put in minimal effort. If you start off as if you mean it and are strong when they ignore your aids you may well find that you will then be able to use lighter aids for the rest of the lesson.


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## *hic* (15 November 2013)

Get your instructor to show you just how hard you should be using your legs, then ask her to show you how the pony goes when she rides it. I'll bet he's just a good RS pony who knows when to ignore his rider.


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## Penumbra (15 November 2013)

stacey87 said:



			I do see what your saying masterbenedict and yes I may be a little gentle sometimes but when I'm being made to kick harder and harder and having "if you don't give her a bootful I'll come over there myself and slap her on her arse" shouted concerns me!!! I do like my instructor she does know her stuff she's just very hands on shall we say and I do worry about the appearance of the horses there not under weight just look a bit tatty I know there not loved pets like most peoples horses but they could do with some TLC. I know my aids could do with some more I mean it but when I feel like I'm slightly beating the horse I don't want to mean it but if I was being taught properly and felt like the horses welfare was priority my mean it aids would be I mean it as I would feel better if you see what I mean  I do know what you mean though but I just don't think the horses welfare is priority anymore it probably was when they started but it doesn't look like it now
		
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This does sound concerning. I learnt to ride at riding schools and I would say most of the owners did treat their horses like well loved pets. Obviously they had to work for their living but I do think all the YOs did care about their horses, and if you don't get this feeling from the school it would concern me, more than being told to give horses a boot. I worked at a riding school/trecking centre over the summer, and the owner and her daughter genuinely loved all the horses there. It may be a bit unusual in that a lot of horses were homebred, but I just wanted to show that places like this do exist. 

I do think masterbenedict is right that sometimes you have to encourage people to be firmer with the leg. Some beginners will sometimes swing their leg and not actually make contact with the horse's side, for example. However, I think there are better ways to do this than encouraging you to give the horse a boot. It is a lot better to develop a strong, firm leg that does not really move away from the horse's side. This will get the horse moving forward better, as you are not taking the leg off, and it is better for your balance imho. 

I don't agree you need to spend years on the lunge (although I think occasional lunge lessons are beneficial), but I do think learning to canter is best done on the lunge as you can develop your seat/balance first, without having to worry about keeping the horse going.

ETA: I also agree you don't want a really forwards horse at this stage in your riding career. These will often overreact to all your aids, and could really scare you. In my experience, off the leg horses are also very sensitive to weight aids and hand aids, and you do not want a horse that does things you haven't asked because you have slightly lost your balance etc.


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## TrasaM (15 November 2013)

Gloi said:



			These horses will weigh you up the second you get on them. If they know that you are reluctant to give them a harder kick if they ignore lighter aids they will take advantage of it and put in minimal effort. If you start off as if you mean it and are strong when they ignore your aids you may well find that you will then be able to use lighter aids for the rest of the lesson.
		
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So true. The horse I was taught on ( started riding just over 2 years ago) was really good at sussing you out. His default pace was halt lol. However I was switched between him and another more slightly willing horse for my first 6 months of lessons. The things that poor horse had to put up with as he was the horse if choice for all adult beginners.  If a riding crop was used he would throw in a half hearted buck but would then actually start to comply.
I too was told to boot. However I've got a very ineffective boot and still do,'  I resorted to nudging with my heels. Not good either as it meant that I started to lift my heels so I've had to unlearn this too. 
I too was totally fed up with plods after a few weeks but then the not so ploddy horse taught me a lesson. I was learning to canter and he decided it'd be fun to charge off around the school at full tilt and I couldn't get him to stop. It was one of the few times I've been truly scared on horseback. ! This is why plods are used for beginners. It's safer. 
As to the kicking ; I totally agree that it should not be necessary and that poor horse has just learnt to ignore it.  
After 6 months I was moved on to a horse who was the complete opposite. I'd actually picked up the courage to ask if I could start refining my aids a bit rather than having a constant battle just to keep moving but they were a step ahead and had already decided to do so. His default speed was, and can still be at times, fast as possible and don't stop!  I've loved every lesson I've had on this horse and I'm still getting the hang of him 18 months on and I so wish he were mine! 
I still have lessons on him now and he has taught me so much.  I dread to think what'd happen if someone booted him though.  

Good luck with your lesson OP and well done fir recognising that booting is neither effective nor kind.


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## stacey87 (15 November 2013)

TrasaM said:



			So true. The horse I was taught on ( started riding just over 2 years ago) was really good at sussing you out. His default pace was halt lol. However I was switched between him and another more slightly willing horse for my first 6 months of lessons. The things that poor horse had to put up with as he was the horse if choice for all adult beginners. If a riding crop was used he would throw in a half hearted buck but would then actually start to comply.
I too was told to boot. However I've got a very ineffective boot and still do,' I resorted to nudging with my heels. Not good either as it meant that I started to lift my heels so I've had to unlearn this too. 
I too was totally fed up with plods after a few weeks but then the not so ploddy horse taught me a lesson. I was learning to canter and he decided it'd be fun to charge off around the school at full tilt and I couldn't get him to stop. It was one of the few times I've been truly scared on horseback. ! This is why plods are used for beginners. It's safer. 
As to the kicking ; I totally agree that it should not be necessary and that poor horse has just learnt to ignore it. 
After 6 months I was moved on to a horse who was the complete opposite. I'd actually picked up the courage to ask if I could start refining my aids a bit rather than having a constant battle just to keep moving but they were a step ahead and had already decided to do so. His default speed was, and can still be at times, fast as possible and don't stop! I've loved every lesson I've had on this horse and I'm still getting the hang of him 18 months on and I so wish he were mine! 
I still have lessons on him now and he has taught me so much. I dread to think what'd happen if someone booted him though.  

Good luck with your lesson OP and well done fir recognising that booting is neither effective nor kind.
		
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Thanks for the reply 
I know it's safer to be on a plod at the moment and i am thankful for that for safety whilst learning but i justhate booting her as she's soo sweet but she must be soo used to it now  bless her


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## livetoride (16 November 2013)

Many if not most school horses are disposed to do the minimum amount of work possible and will test each rider at the start of the lesson. A couple of good whacks behind the leg, with the whip held upright if necessary, at the beginning of the lesson is a lot more effective with most school horses than constant kicking and a lot kinder too. The rider can then concentrate on developing their seat and refining their aids and does not have to spend the lesson thinking about nothing else but impulsion.


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## TrasaM (16 November 2013)

livetoride said:



			Many if not most school horses are disposed to do the minimum amount of work possible and will test each rider at the start of the lesson. A couple of good whacks behind the leg, with the whip held upright if necessary, at the beginning of the lesson is a lot more effective with most school horses than constant kicking and a lot kinder too. The rider can then concentrate on developing their seat and refining their aids and does not have to spend the lesson thinking about nothing else but impulsion.
		
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Totally agree. I know of onLy one exception to this at the RS I go to. Even some of the newer horses who start off quite forward soon learn to do as little as possible. I was told to do exactly what you said, use the crop rather than keep nagging with my leg. Sadly however some of them also learn to ignore this too whilst I've met a few who know that all it takes is a buck when slapped and the rider will back off. Crafty souls and who'd blame them.


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## Leaveittothediva (16 November 2013)

Hi there, maybe someone like me who has only access to riding school horses will let you in on a little secret.  A riding school will buy a new horse, ask to ride it, it will walk, trot, and canter, when asked.  It will do circles, turn well, jump very well,  give the horse a few months in the riding school.  You will be exhausted at the end of a lesson trying to get it to do anything.  It will have been subjected to so many different riding styles, its mind will be boggled.  Likewise Riding Instructors,(who do a fab job by the way) but like us all, they too get jaded, I could probably write a book on the quotations they use in every lesson, but I don't want to bore you.  Oh Yeah, and did you know that whenever I go to holiday in England and go to a riding school to have a lesson, I am thought of as a very good rider, funny that at home my instructor thinks I'm crap. Hey Ho, thats Riding Schools for ya got to love em, got no choice if we want to be around horses.  Take Care sure its only a bit of Craic


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## Echo Bravo (16 November 2013)

Wouldn't be one of the RS in Mid Beds would it? you will find most horses/ponies in RS are dead on their flanks and in their mouths and mostly their brains as they have been kicked, pulled in their mouths they switch off, it's a shamed to see some lovely animals ruined.


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## Biska (16 November 2013)

Interesting thread, I am just now coming back to riding after  a 30 year gap! I had my own horse until university! Well what a revelation, I decided to pick a "decent " school with nice forward horses and get private lessons, Yes I can still ride, I discovered....but boy am I unfit...LOL. I chose a dressage yard that teaches.  But the quality PSG horse I ride who is gorgeous is a lazy devil and I have not the strength and the fitness to get the best or even the average from him. Being told to "beat him up a bit so he knows you are the boss" does not float my equine boat.... I am now looking for a loan where I can develop a relationship with a horse and get  a quality local trainer to improve my fitness and my seat and have some fun with a responsive horse.  I would be interested to hear from others coming back from a HUGE break! I might start a separate thread. Good luck OP!


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## stacey87 (16 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			Wouldn't be one of the RS in Mid Beds would it? you will find most horses/ponies in RS are dead on their flanks and in their mouths and mostly their brains as they have been kicked, pulled in their mouths they switch off, it's a shamed to see some lovely animals ruined.
		
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Yes i'm Bedfordshire near Shefford area


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## viola (20 November 2013)

This is something very close to my heart as an instructor who is trying to fight with the "booting culture" ...I really hope OP that you find another riding school where standards are higher and understanding of teaching in place. 

I wouldn't believe everyone who says months of lunge lessons are boring as they most likely did not experience a good, fun, creative and educational seat training programme. If they did, they may have another opinion of lunge lessons 
I very highly recommend them as seat education for beginner riders is the first step to get rid of switched off/resigned horses. 

The time spent on the lunge depend on your general learning ambitions. As an example I keep my beginner riders on the lunge for minimum of 3 months. That's for your average leisure rider.

If your body awareness and alignment are very good (as advised by your instructor) it might be that you need to focus more on how to use this good posture you have in a way that helps the horse rather than demands...

I must add - I think it would be great if you wrote to H & H with your experiences. The booting culture must go if riding schools are to survive. More and more riders want to have good basics and ride well. Leisure riders shouldn't have to loan or buy horses to experience high quality education, they deserve to learn at places where horses are not used as kicking boards.

Good luck with your search


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## sarahann1 (25 November 2013)

jemima*askin said:



			Get your instructor to show you just how hard you should be using your legs, then ask her to show you how the pony goes when she rides it. I'll bet he's just a good RS pony who knows when to ignore his rider.
		
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This, I used to teach at a RS, just lower level stuff, I would happily get on any of the horses and show the customer what the horse could do if they found the right buttons. It shut many a customer up who told me "this horse can't/won't do it", if they couldn't/wouldn't, I wouldn't be teaching with it! If any instructor can't get on the horse and do it better, they shouldn't be teaching. 

And yes, in more than one occasion I told customers to boot the horse in question because it was taking the mick. But, it was a safe horse, that's the thing, we had more sensitive, easier off the leg horses, but riders graduated up to them, putting them on that type to start with would have been carnage. In time, all my customers ended up being able to get great work out of these horses, made me and them smile no end when it all fell into place  Then they got to ride our more sensitive types 

Remember OP, you've only been riding a comparatively short time, your muscles won't be as developed as an longer term rider, so what feels like a big boot to you, probably isn't all that hard to the horse. My one piece of advice, make sure when you are kicking on, your not tensing yourself up in the process, it's very easy to end up in a spiral of kicking and being tense, then getting nowhere (because the horse is being blocked by your seat), try, once you've kicked on, to take a breath and role your shoulders a fraction to help you stay loose.


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## hnmisty (25 November 2013)

stacey87 said:



			Thanks for the reply 
I know it's safer to be on a plod at the moment and i am thankful for that for safety whilst learning but i justhate booting her as she's soo sweet but she must be soo used to it now  bless her
		
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I think that's why you are being told to boot her- RS horses who are ridden by beginners a lot tend to just switch off and go into autopilot "I'm not going any faster". That's why I think even the novice RS horses benefit from having someone more experienced getting on from time to time. 

I personally would look elsewhere, at least to find an instructor who appears to care for the horses she uses to earn her living! Riding schools really do vary- I started out at a place that had me learning to jump on a fat and lazy 5 y/o who was also learning to jump. I was capable but not the most confident...so hey what, we stopped a lot! I rode there for almost 2 years, then moved elsewhere. First thing my new instructor said to me was "do you know you always ride with the same shoulder in?". Instructor at the old place had never noticed!

Good luck


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## bex1984 (25 November 2013)

jemima*askin said:



			Get your instructor to show you just how hard you should be using your legs, then ask her to show you how the pony goes when she rides it. I'll bet he's just a good RS pony who knows when to ignore his rider.
		
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Completely agree. Sometimes the more laid back horses need a good kick on. Generally once they know you won't take any nonsense they'll start listening to you.

Ets: I own a rs pony - he'll try and do the minimum but if you push him he's very capable, can go nicely and jump well. He's just a bit lazy. But he'll look after anyone and keep them safe.


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## oldie48 (26 November 2013)

Pity the poor RS owner, if they have safe plods that do as little as they have to, they get slated if they have more forward going sensitive horses and a client falls off, they are likely to get sued! Personally, I think lunge lessons on a well schooled horse are great for developing the basics (and a lot more) but they ARE expensive and not many places are able to offer them but if OP can find somewhere suitable, then I'd really recommend having some. It is very difficult to find suitable well schooled horses for beginners that don't become sour as they are very saleable to the leisure market but I was lucky to  find a school in the Midlands that was excellent for giving me the basics but it was still a huge shock when I got my own horse and discovered it had a mind of it's own! Please don't rush into buying or loaning too quickly as it's too easy to end up with something completely unsuitable.


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## Kelly9512 (3 December 2013)

The problem with a lot of riding school horses and ponies is that due to the fact that are ridden by many different people and many beginners, they become dead to the leg and some do need waking up. 

I'm afraid it takes a lot longer than a month to learn how to ride correctly, although you do seem to be making quick progress. I was learning at a riding school for around 9 years before I reached the top level. 

However I do agree that the instructor shouldn't be encouraging you to "boot" it. I would watch some lessons by other instructors and see if you think you would prefer their method better. Or go to other riding schools and do the same before you book any lessons.

All riding schools are different and all have different standards of instructors. I still ride at the riding school and all the instructors encourage you to use your seat to influence the horse rather than boot it and also encourage you to use you legs and seat for turning. If you don't show evidence of this, you don't progress through the levels.

"Shop around" for other instructors or riding schools


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## Dave the dog (12 July 2015)

Hi Stacey, You need a more informative instructor. I had the same problem in my early days, lack of assertion, still have it sometimes. The trick is more contact and lean back to put more weight on the hind legs and squeeze hard with the calves, as soon as horse moves for ward relax legs push with your pelvis in rythm with the horse and maintain contact, about the same amount of effort to hold a bag of sugar in each hand and keep your weight on the hind end. If you lean forward horse will stop. Often you may have to repeat the squeeze to keep the momentum. Just telling you to boot your horse is not value for money. Any fool can thrash a horse, it takes a special kind of fool to ride one. Good luck Happy landings


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## Princess16 (12 July 2015)

Dave the dog said:



			Hi Stacey, You need a more informative instructor. I had the same problem in my early days, lack of assertion, still have it sometimes. The trick is more contact and lean back to put more weight on the hind legs and squeeze hard with the calves, as soon as horse moves for ward relax legs push with your pelvis in rythm with the horse and maintain contact, about the same amount of effort to hold a bag of sugar in each hand and keep your weight on the hind end. If you lean forward horse will stop. Often you may have to repeat the squeeze to keep the momentum. Just telling you to boot your horse is not value for money. Any fool can thrash a horse, it takes a special kind of fool to ride one. Good luck Happy landings
		
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OP original post was 2 years ago! Think she probably knows what she's doing now lol


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## Dave the dog (12 July 2015)

doh thanks for that lets hope she wasn't put off


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## mighty attom (13 July 2015)

look up ride with your mind, mary wanless. get in touch with a coach in your area and ask if they can recommend a suitable riding school. start correctly , don`t hesitate to change!  I certainly wish you were in my area. ( westmids ). good luck


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## iestynlad (13 July 2015)

Dead to the leg! Moving your legs that much to get it going is not going to do much for your seat. Find a new school or buy a schoolmaster horse/pony, good livery yard to guide you through initial ownership with a good manege and a good instructor. Your life will change believe me!


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## Dave the dog (14 July 2015)

Mary Wanless is right on the money. the more I ride the more I learn how the seat leads the way and  horse and I  enjoy the intuitive  victory's and in turn the more subtle my riding. I've been lucky with an excellent school and instructor with a wide variety of horses, but for one thing, What doesn't seem to factor into the BHS curriculum  is  in hand ground work for the beginner. After all if you can move them around by posturing on the ground then moving them in the saddle must come easier.


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## HorseNeverWrong (14 July 2015)

I think there is always a delicate balance in selecting the right horse for any rider, not just a new rider, in a lesson program. I have to say, looking back, although I was/am a very timid rider, I wish I had more forward horses when learning to ride. I learned lots of bad habits like letting my leg slip back to kick the horse before my muscles were strong enough to squeeze, simply because the horses would not move.

I do wish I had more lunge lessons when I was starting off but quite often instructors don't always know how to give such lessons effectively or have a horse that can lunge properly and effectively for an extensive period of time.


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## Dave the dog (14 July 2015)

Know what you mean, my first ever lesson was on the lunge and I did wonder what it was all about felt safer and was able to feel the horse without the obvious responsibility.  But, in my post about ground work I was referring to actually being on the ground with horse in hand no tack just rope and halter moving with the horse as it follows your lead, and standing still as the horse follows your directions. Very subtle, very close, very rewarding to be able to command the old boy without actually touching him. Also a great cure for timidity or nervousness in horse or rider.


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## triple (21 July 2015)

I can't say I completely agree with the comments re changing schools. There is a school where I keep my horse, and the riding school ponies will usually need "a bit of a boot" to get them moving in the more novice/intermediate lessons. However, put an experienced rider/livery on them, who can apply the leg firmly and effectively (through practice and developed muscle) and the horses are instantly more receptive and the booting vanishes. 

Riding school ponies are _smart_ - they know if a rider is capable of correct aids, and aren't going to put themselves out; quite often they will ignore a flapping leg and are conscious of inexperienced riders and will not shoot off from the leg; having learned from past experience that this quite often unseats the novice rider and the horse is rewarded with a bang on the back and a pull in the mouth. 

You say you have been riding a month and a half; from experience as a rider, owner, and instructor, it is highly unlikely that you have developed the seat and leg strength to deliver a clear, precise aid every time. As such, your instructor is most likely trying to give you "saddle time" - i.e. encourage you to get the horse moving in order to develop seat and leg at the various paces to allow you deliver correct, tidier aids. I can guarantee you that the "flap" or "boot" most novice riders employ is a significantly lesser deal than receiving a sharp, well placed dig from an experienced rider for failing to follow the aids. 

If you wish to speed up the process, you need more time in the saddle. Private lessons, lunge lessons, whatever. You need to develop to a stage where you no longer need to give the horses a bit of a boot to get them moving; this is significantly more to do with rider than horse.


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## Sukistokes2 (25 July 2015)

Just to say Stacey Your inbox is full, you need to delete some messages .


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