# Horses on Sucralfate and Renitidane forever...



## mrfluffyfeet. (24 August 2016)

Before anyone says it. I am awaiting a call from my vets!

I would like to know if anyone has a young horse on both of the above meds for life and is there quality of life good , my geldings been on Renitidane since he was 6 , and now at 7 he also needs to be on sucralfate. I have noticed his overall condition is so much worse than it ever was , he is generally happy but my worry is am I doing whats best by him? am i making his inside ruined ? is this fair on him ?
Currently he also cant be ridden, My vet hasn't said much either way but now he costs £12.50 a day to medicate , which also goes in a feed fully made of topspec so its very costly also. I will do what is best by him always but id like to hear form other who own horses on this medication for life. 

Ps my horse does not have ulcers.


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## Melody Grey (24 August 2016)

mrfluffyfeet. said:



			Before anyone says it. I am awaiting a call from my vets!

I would like to know if anyone has a young horse on both of the above meds for life and is there quality of life good , my geldings been on Renitidane since he was 6 , and now at 7 he also needs to be on sucralfate. I have noticed his overall condition is so much worse than it ever was , he is generally happy but my worry is am I doing whats best by him? am i making his inside ruined ? is this fair on him ?
Currently he also cant be ridden, My vet hasn't said much either way but now he costs £12.50 a day to medicate , which also goes in a feed fully made of topspec so its very costly also. I will do what is best by him always but id like to hear form other who own horses on this medication for life. 

Ps my horse does not have ulcers.
		
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.....you mean that your horse doesn't have gastric ulcers presumably confirmed by scoping? Hind but ulcers can't be scoped for as you probably know, so they could be an issue, particularly as you say his condition is poor and he is unrideable.

So, I presume you're medicating for hindgut acidosis?  As far as I know there's no long term damage with low levels of sucralfate and renitidine (looked into this with my late mare), however I think there may be some evidence that they can become less effective over time- might be worth a Google? 

Regarding the cost, yes it is extortionate and from an extensive amount of research, I don't think you'll be able to reduce that assuming you're already importing sucralfate from abler?

Like gastric ulcers, hind gut ulcers and acidosis can be triggered by other pain, so I'd be looking along that route before committing to a lifetime on meds. My mare had gastric and hind gut ulcers and HGA, presumably resulting from pain we couldn't find and used up all insurance money and plenty more trying to find. She'd had a successful KS rehab and seemed also to have a hormonal problem so unfortunately our story was not a happy ending and reluctantly we had to let her go.  If I was faced with this problem again, I think I would be much quicker to call it a day.

Sorry to be a prophet of doom, I'm sure there must be horses medicated for this long term perfectly successfully, it's whether you can extend to the cost- I couldn't! 

Try the horses with ulcers FB page- lots of amazing advice etc there! Good luck and ask away if there's anything my experience can help you with!! X


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## mrfluffyfeet. (24 August 2016)

he has had about 4-6 scopes over 9 months as he went in every three months. We have now also used up all our insurance money, my vet said its not ulcers... he said its a condition he hasn't seen many times before but have found they are managed on both above meds. but with my baby being well a baby you hit the nail in the head my worry is how long can he live happily like this ? 
he was initially only on renitindane but it became quickly ineffective... 

sorry for my spelling of both meds.


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## Melody Grey (24 August 2016)

It sounds like hind gut ulcers and/or hind gut acidosis from what you're describing. If this is the problem and that's what you're trying to resolve, I think it would be wise to time limit it somehow given the huge cost involved, which presumably you're not covered by any insurance for? If the drugs are working, I'd expect to see some improvement by two weeks and a marked improvement by a month.

Has the horse had a full lameness work up or back X-Rays under insurance to make sure there are no underlying causes? My mare never appeared at all lame but in hindsight, there must have been something else going on somewhere.

Hindgut ulcers and acidosis are not well understood conditions and I had to work extremely hard to convince my vet that this was the problem (won in the end!)

Just a thought- you say you're feeding top spec? Not sure whether it's true but some say this is really bad for ulcer horses, and all things considered I think you'd be well advised to pursue an ulcer-friendly diet.

Good luck with your vets phone call and let us know how you get on


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## mrfluffyfeet. (24 August 2016)

We feed the topspec ulcer feed and did see a great improvement in it with him. We had him on no feed before this all happened he's a heavy traditional cob. His routine is strict and he was ridden & shown last year but this year a drop in his well being. 
by time limit do you mean on his life.. i have been thinking it and i feel i may be at peace that I've done everything i can for him. 
my vet did treat ulcers at first, with gastroguard and everything along those lines... 

Amy


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## Melody Grey (24 August 2016)

Yes Amy, I did mean a time limit on his life. Sorry I hope that's not too blunt and doesn't offend. When I was trying to fix my mare I literally spent two years and thousands of pounds for it to end up nowhere, so if I was in the situation again I would still try to fix the horse, but not go on trying for so long or at so great a cost.

Speak to your vet though, and look on the FB group, there are people on there who are medicating their horses long term and they are out competing and all sorts, so there are success stories! 

Re: Gastrogard- this is known to exacerbate HG ulcers, so this could be a result of his treatment, I think it was for my mare.


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## SEL (24 August 2016)

So if it isn't ulcers then what does your vet say it is?

I actually found the Topspec ulsakind made my mare worse. Even though I introduced it slowly she got horrible diarrhoea and startedd taking my head off everytime I approached her tummy. She's pretty stable these days but that was only after she was diagnosed with PSSM and I was able to put her on the right diet. I worked my way through Succeed, Equishure and Coligone. All are great but Equishure is the one I would turn to if I suspected hind gut issues again.


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## Melody Grey (24 August 2016)

Is he grass sensitive at all Amy? We noticed my mares problems were a lot worse on lots of grass, we muzzled her and reduce turnout time and she did improve greatly- might be worth a thought? Otherwise, are you up to date with Physio and saddle checks? These could be causing or adding to the situation? X


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## mrfluffyfeet. (24 August 2016)

I am at peace with the last three years I've spent thousands helping him ... He is generally happy on the meds but off them he is terror..
as you can see my horse is so important to the vets they havent called still a day later I've called twice


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## Melody Grey (24 August 2016)

Succeed was a waste of time for us too, but we did see marked improvements experimenting with bicarbonate of soda in oil (which is what equishure is) to the point where we convinced the vet it was HGA. 

The other trap some owners can fall down is removing all sugars from the diet and turning to alfalfa, which some horses are allergic to.


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## mrfluffyfeet. (24 August 2016)

Melody Grey,
He is always lean ... never fat , he is on a strict routine in at night out 6 hours a day weather dependant. I've got the sadder next week but he's in light if none work.


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## Melody Grey (24 August 2016)

mrfluffyfeet. said:



			Melody Grey,
He is always lean ... never fat , he is on a strict routine in at night out 6 hours a day weather dependant. I've got the sadder next week but he's in light if none work.
		
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Probably a daft question, but he's wormed up to date?


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## mrfluffyfeet. (24 August 2016)

no questions are daft , yes very strict worming programme with the vets also


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## vanrim (25 August 2016)

I had 2 horses on similar treatment but only for 3 to 4 months before they were fixed. Neither had gastric ulcers and I believe they had hind gut ulcers which resolved with the treatment. I am very interested in your case and you say your vet has only seen it a couple of times before. Do you mind saying what he actually thinks is the problem?


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## mrfluffyfeet. (26 August 2016)

He said its active lesions in my boys small intestine , we got to watch him being scoped and i saw them myself horrible horrible things,they are kept under control by the medication but when we take him off the medication... they flare right back up to the stage they make him dangerous due to the pain!!  
He gave it a name himself but he said its not in the books


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## nikkimariet (26 August 2016)

Sounds like acidosis... Similar to mine.

Usual ulcer stuff didn't help at all... Sucralfate and Ranitidine do.

Fig has been on Sucralfate a few months now. I've got him down to a dosage that works for him without bankrupting me.


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## mrfluffyfeet. (26 August 2016)

Freddie has been getting treatment for a year now.. And hes apparently on the lowest dose now which averages at £12.50 a day   how did you manage to get your horse happy and your bank ?


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## Goldenstar (26 August 2016)

OP have you tried Eugsin SLH ?


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## ycbm (26 August 2016)

Has he been tested for any allergies? I know more than one horse allergic to common grass species and one to carrots. I think in your shoes with no insurance money, I might try an exclusion diet and keeping him in.

But I also wouldn't criticise you if you choose to call it a day.


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## nikkimariet (29 August 2016)

mrfluffyfeet. said:



			how did you manage to get your horse happy and your bank ?
		
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Don't buy anything else!


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## Archiepoo (4 September 2016)

have a look at astrids oil page on facebook some fantastic results with it , . ..also with acidosis  yeasacc is very helpful as the gut flora is disrupted or even a poo tea might be a good idea to help settle the gut  .would definatly get off the top spec tho have a look at thunderbrooks  and agrobs both much more suitable for ulcer horses .


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