# In China,  apparently....



## Alec Swan (3 January 2014)

.... there's a row brewing,  because in amongst their Donkey meat which is presumably processed,  they've discovered Fox meat,  and with Fox at only $1 a kilo,  they're understandably uphauled!

Alec.


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## eahotson (3 January 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			.... there's a row brewing,  because in amongst their Donkey meat which is presumably processed,  they've discovered Fox meat,  and with Fox at only $1 a kilo,  they're understandably uphauled!

Alec.
		
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Trying to be sympathetic


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## Patterdale (3 January 2014)

eahotson said:



			Trying to be sympathetic
		
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Failing over here!


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## jenni999 (3 January 2014)

Surprised they care, given their appalling record in animal abuse...


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## Nugget La Poneh (3 January 2014)

jenni999 said:



			Surprised they care, given their appalling record in animal abuse...
		
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They've lost control, that's why they care. 

I for one never realised they ate fox. Or donkey for that matter. 

I still don't think our food chain is as clean as it should be.


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## misterjinglejay (3 January 2014)

Um.........


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## Alec Swan (3 January 2014)

Presumably,  when they discover that their supply of Fox meat has been contaminated with Rat,  which let's face it is probably around the 10c per kilo rate,  then there really will be uproar. :wink3:

It's starting to occur to me,  when we look at how other nationalities source their meat protein,  if we aren't being just a wee bit precious. 

Alec.


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## MerrySherryRider (3 January 2014)

Of course its totally unreasonable to ask for Donkey meat and expect to get donkey. 

Lets cut the ^^^^ and just ask for a meat product or a vegetable product instead. 
That way, no one's disappointed.


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## Nugget La Poneh (3 January 2014)

Genuine question - surely the time taken to butcher a fox (or rat) is more time invasive per kilo than a donkey. So why would it be cheaper? Or is there such a hug fox population that they are 10 to a penny so are not needing to be farmed? Or do they go in for the mass produced 'meat' method and throw the whole lot in?


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## Nugget La Poneh (3 January 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Lets cut the ^^^^ and just ask for a meat product or a vegetable product instead. 
That way, no one's disappointed.
		
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But then we'll get fake meat a la Quorn 

Meat Flavour is the way forward


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## Alec Swan (3 January 2014)

Nugget La Poneh said:



			But then we'll get fake meat a la Quorn 

....... 

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There's a thought!  Quorn Beef,  from Fray Bentos,  except that it's horse!

"And in amongst our array of Pytchley Pickles,  or forget Fortnums,  how about a Heythrop Hamper,  this week we have ...............".  I'm sure that it would be a success! 

As someone else has said,  donkeys in China?  I thought that their preferred beast of burden was the humble buffalo.  It was actually on the BBC News thingamy,  so I'd have thought that it was sort of right.

Alec.


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## MerrySherryRider (3 January 2014)

Nugget La Poneh said:



			But then we'll get fake meat a la Quorn 

Meat Flavour is the way forward 

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Hell, I think I'd rather eat rat than Quorn.


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## CorvusCorax (3 January 2014)

Why wouldn't they eat donkey? Donkey is eaten in Europe and it's part of a lot of cured meats, salami etc. It's not bad.

What does the fox say?   EE-AW!


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## MadBlackLab (3 January 2014)

since when did the Chinese care what animal their ate


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## CorvusCorax (3 January 2014)

China isn't some massive hub of evil solely populated by barbaric animal abusers. It's not like the UK is squeaky clean on all human and animal rights issues.


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## Alec Swan (3 January 2014)

Nugget La Poneh said:



			....... 

I for one never realised they ate fox. .......

........
		
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Nor I,  but if the Fox is bred for his skin,  then the carcass would just be a bi-product,  I suppose.  

Alec.


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## christine48 (3 January 2014)

MadBlackLab said:



			since when did the Chinese care what animal their ate
		
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They will eat anything with a pulse!!


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## Meems (3 January 2014)

MadBlackLab said:



			since when did the Chinese care what animal their ate
		
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You're spot on there!


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## ILuvCowparsely (3 January 2014)

MadBlackLab said:



			since when did the Chinese care what animal their ate
		
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Just like the Koreans if it moves = eat it!


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## MadBlackLab (3 January 2014)

Leviathan said:



			Just like the Koreans if it moves = eat it!
		
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LOL


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## ILuvCowparsely (3 January 2014)

I bet if they catch a rat it will be battered and served up.


One reason I wouldn't go to China seeing dogs etc served gross"Just the thought of it makes me cringe."


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## Gingerwitch (3 January 2014)

CaveCanem said:



			China isn't some massive hub of evil solely populated by barbaric animal abusers. It's not like the UK is squeaky clean on all human and animal rights issues.
		
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No were so good on human rights issues our pensioners sit freezing and staving to death, being left for days unattnded by carers that can only give them 33 mins..... whilst our prisoners languish in heated hotels, with all mod cons, 3 meals a day, tv's, people to talk to, checked at all hours of the day and night ! ????


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## MadBlackLab (3 January 2014)

Gingerwitch said:



			No were so good on human rights issues our pensioners sit freezing and staving to death, being left for days unattnded by carers that can only give them 33 mins..... whilst our prisoners languish in heated hotels, with all mod cons, 3 meals a day, tv's, people to talk to, checked at all hours of the day and night ! ????
		
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that is so true and so wrong too


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## Patterdale (3 January 2014)

CaveCanem said:



			China isn't some massive hub of evil solely populated by barbaric animal abusers. It's not like the UK is squeaky clean on all human and animal rights issues.
		
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Comparing the UK's animal welfare standards to China's is like comparing a wildlife sanctuary to a vivisection lab. 

China may not be *solely* populated by barbaric animal abusers, but they've got a FAR higher ratio than most. 

Any country whose population accepts without question live lizards being encased in water bubbles in plastic key rings so they do a 'cool wriggle' until they suffocate/starve, has got a serious screw loose somewhere.


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## Gingerwitch (3 January 2014)

SnowOnSnow said:



			Comparing the UK's animal welfare standards to China's is like comparing a wildlife sanctuary to a vivisection lab. 

China may not be *solely* populated by barbaric animal abusers, but they've got a FAR higher ratio than most. 

Any country whose population accepts without question live lizards being encased in water bubbles in plastic key rings so they do a 'cool wriggle' until they suffocate/starve, has got a serious screw loose somewhere.
		
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I wont sleep tonight now i have read this


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## mightymammoth (4 January 2014)

MadBlackLab said:



			since when did the Chinese care what animal their ate
		
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Exactly I hope they choke on it


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## Alec Swan (4 January 2014)

SnowOnSnow said:



			.......

Any country whose population accepts without question live lizards being encased in water bubbles in plastic key rings so they do a 'cool wriggle' until they suffocate/starve, has got a serious screw loose somewhere.
		
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I suppose that it could be true that those who we'd berate for such a thing would say exactly the same thing about us,  and the fact that we actually care enough about the well being of a lizard would cause wonderment amongst them.  I agree with you that it would be a bizarre and care-less thing to do,  but our differing and opposing moral psyche may not actually make us right.

I wonder,  for instance,  if for all the fish that we,  in our caring culture,  eat,  do we ever consider that when hauled out of the sea in nets,  they are drowned in oxygen?  Whether fish suffer,  as we would by drowning in their environment,  I can't say,  but we give precious little thought to the well being of fish,  whilst we criticise others,  and their treatment of another living creature.

I'm only posing questions,  to which I don't actually have any answers!

Alec.


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## CorvusCorax (4 January 2014)

Only a higher ratio because they've got a bigger population.
And I suppose you will eat anything if you're subjected to grinding poverty.

Do we as a population accept without question, lobsters and crabs being plunged into boiling water alive?  Do we as a population accept halal and kosher slaughter?
What about human slavery and people trafficking, that happens too, often in our leafy suburbs.
All of these things take place on our shores but to judge a whole nation on the actions of some would be unfair, in my opinion anyway.


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## Arizahn (7 January 2014)

Meh, I'd not be bothered eating fox. It's all carbon based protein, at the end of the day. I draw the line at silicon based protein though. Gives me indigestion.


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## Kaylum (8 January 2014)

I have this argument with people who think our meat industry is good. So when you eating in a cafe where is the meat from. Do you know how it's killed how its been produced?  Feel ok about eating red tractor meat that's good again how are these animals killed? Send your horse to the auction? How does the meat man kill them? Don't think people have any idea what happens at these places.


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## Dry Rot (8 January 2014)

I have a good friend who is a Chinese vet in Taiwan. He tells me they do indeed eat everything and anything. Also a highly intelligent and interesting man, btw.

But which is the more environmentally friendly? To eat a dead dog or bury it? Provided the dog died humanely, I am not sure I see the difference -- at last to the dog! They can eat me if they want (having been certified deceased) but I suspect I will be a bit tough.


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## pip6 (8 January 2014)

They eat dog so why not fox? Not overly sure of difference save one more 'free range' maybe?

Whilst in no-way do I condone cruelty, do not judge their attitudes to meat by a western way of life. Not so long ago, during the cultural revolution (which was take part in or die), there was mass starvation in China (indeed parts of North Korea still on verge of starvation). As such, the people who would 'eat anything that moves', would be more likely to live! Given they have walked this tightrope of survival, is it not to be expected then that this is the attitude now?Would you rather you (& your children) die or feed them dog/rat/fox etc? It was a very stark choice for them.

Also, given the decades of governments in these countries treating their people as cattle, to be abused & slaughtered at will, do you really expect them to respect animal rights? I'm not condoning what goes on (at all levels, & yes I have been to China, how others commenting on here have?), but try to understand where the people are coming from before you are rude about their morals. A little more understanding of their point of view would help to change things in the future, as you can see why things are as they currently are.


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## Alec Swan (8 January 2014)

pip6,

a good post.  My opening post was a bit t-i-c,  but there is,  of course,  a serious side to the matter.

Alec.


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## Patterdale (8 January 2014)

Kaylum said:



			I have this argument with people who think our meat industry is good. So when you eating in a cafe where is the meat from. Do you know how it's killed how its been produced?  Feel ok about eating red tractor meat that's good again how are these animals killed? Send your horse to the auction? How does the meat man kill them? Don't think people have any idea what happens at these places.
		
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Actually I know very well what happens in abattoirs. Do you?
The animals have a quick death, don't see their pals be killed so have no idea what's going to happen, and have no more stress in the run up than they do being loaded up to move fields, or put through the race to be dosed. 
This is the reason I only eat British meat.


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## siennamum (8 January 2014)

Dry Rot said:



			I have a good friend who is a Chinese vet in Taiwan. He tells me they do indeed eat everything and anything. Also a highly intelligent and interesting man, btw.

But which is the more environmentally friendly? To eat a dead dog or bury it? Provided the dog died humanely, I am not sure I see the difference -- at last to the dog! They can eat me if they want (having been certified deceased) but I suspect I will be a bit tough.
		
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Literally anything.....
http://communities.washingtontimes....nese-cannibalism-infant-flesh-outrages-world/

I think maybe it will be a good thing one day to just have manufactured fake meat protein, then we won't be quite so gruesome as a species. (soylent green anyone...)


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## siennamum (8 January 2014)

siennamum said:



			Literally anything.....
http://communities.washingtontimes....nese-cannibalism-infant-flesh-outrages-world/

I think maybe it will be a good thing one day to just have manufactured fake meat protein, then we won't be quite so gruesome as a species. (soylent green anyone...)
		
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Cannibalism was also encouraged during the cultural revolution. Quite bizarre


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## PaddyMonty (8 January 2014)

Soylent green is not fake meat unless plastic surgury was involved prior to entering the food chain.


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## siennamum (8 January 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			Soylent green is not fake meat unless plastic surgury was involved prior to entering the food chain.
		
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I know but it is a sign of our age  that we can have a meaningful conversation about it.


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## Kaylum (8 January 2014)

Patterdale said:



			Actually I know very well what happens in abattoirs. Do you?
The animals have a quick death, don't see their pals be killed so have no idea what's going to happen, and have no more stress in the run up than they do being loaded up to move fields, or put through the race to be dosed. 
This is the reason I only eat British meat.
		
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Certainly do that's why I don't eat meat. Did used to btw but started doing a bit of research. That's the end of my meat eating day.  I suggest you have a look at some under cover videos that have been made there is a good one to watch with a nice WHW statement to go with it.  On second thoughts the video is very gruesome and upsetting but if you eat meat you should already know how animals are blooded in the UK


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