# Kevin Thornton excluded from cagnes after his horse diies



## crabbymare (11 October 2016)

this sounds horrific. the poor horse  http://equnews.com/miscellaneous/kevin-thornton-at-centre-of-horse-death-investigation/ and another link to a google translated page from germany which has a bit more about what happened http://bit.ly/2dYhb1k


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## ElectricChampagne (11 October 2016)

I read about this on another site earlier, its shocking. I think though there is more to this than we are reading..


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## LadySam (11 October 2016)

How awful.  I read the French article too that the German one linked to.  His friend says 20 mins, French article says it went on for an hour.  Either way, KT sounds like he's in a spot of trouble.


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## Doris68 (11 October 2016)

Have a look at Grand Prix Relay site.  This is more than shocking...


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## Bustermartin (11 October 2016)

http://www.noellefloyd.com/kevin-thornton-responds-allegations-death-gpa-jump-festival/

Bit more ...


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## VikingSong (11 October 2016)

If the eye witness testimony is true (I read it in German as the English translation was abysmal), then I hope he's prosecuted.


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## crabbymare (11 October 2016)

I read what I could of the german and used the translation as a fill in but it does sound as if it was worse than on  the french site if the other riders were so disgusted and reacted the way they did


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## paddi22 (11 October 2016)

edited


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## stencilface (11 October 2016)

Horrendous if it's even as half as bad as the German translation


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## claude rains (11 October 2016)

Don't get me wrong it sounds horrendous but this happens every time there is an FEI Endurance event and nothing has been done at all. At the latest one a mare broke her leg, was allowed to trot off with a broken cannon bone and her body was accidentally shipped off to an animal crematorium instead of off for a post mortem- arab owned and ridden as ever and as for the video of the exhausted horse being dragged up in front of the vet panel well words fail me.


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## crabbymare (11 October 2016)

yes endurance is horrendous for the horses and I know the fei have done virtually nothing about it but this is showjumping and from the german report even the other riders were horrified at what happened


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## ElectricChampagne (12 October 2016)

One thing that I wonder about is that a statement was typed up and printed before going aroung the grounds asking witnesses to sign it. Shouldn't it be a case of the witness making their own statement then signing it?


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## asterope (12 October 2016)

Kevin Thornton's spoken out http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news...0-2016&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter


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## paddi22 (12 October 2016)

He must have the only horse that can bolt around a gallops, be pushed to gallop more and still finish not panting or breathless...


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## Rowreach (12 October 2016)

I'll be waiting for the PM result and the official report after the investigation.  The eyewitnesses didn't even get the right horse, and I really dislike drawing conclusions from this sort of reporting.  Generally speaking however, it's quite common for horses suffering heart failure to behave very strangely - including napping and bolting - before the actual catestrophic event occurs.


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## ester (12 October 2016)

Rowreach said:



			I'll be waiting for the PM result and the official report after the investigation.  The eyewitnesses didn't even get the right horse, and I really dislike drawing conclusions from this sort of reporting.  Generally speaking however, it's quite common for horses suffering heart failure to behave very strangely - including napping and bolting - before the actual catestrophic event occurs.
		
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That was my thought too. Will be interesting if the PM results can show something that it wasn't heart failure due to over exertion, I'm not sure if they will be able to tell the difference though?


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## ElectricChampagne (12 October 2016)

I really do think there is more to this that what is in the news, and something doesn't smell right at all here.


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## chillipup (12 October 2016)

I'm happy to wait until all the results are in, witness statements, PM result etc. From his own statement, which to my mind appears frank and open, it seems witnesses may have well confused his other two horses with the one that died. I'll reserve any judgement until all the facts are known.


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## JanetGeorge (13 October 2016)

chillipup said:



			I'm happy to wait until all the results are in, witness statements, PM result etc. From his own statement, which to my mind appears frank and open, it seems witnesses may have well confused his other two horses with the one that died. I'll reserve any judgement until all the facts are known.
		
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Yep - I have 4x 17hh mares in the field together (with other white greys a BIT smaller).  I can JUST about tell them apart with the formula - one is pigeon toed, one has a wide snip, one has a small left hand snip and one has no snip!  I think it's unlikely he had never hit him before - colts NEED the odd smack, at least, from an early age if you don't want them playfully removing your arm - or standing on hind legs and whacking you in the skull.  But - whatever he did - or didn't do - he's suffered big time already!  The PM results will be interesting - but horses DO have heart failure for NO apparent reason.


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## conniegirl (13 October 2016)

Rowreach said:



			I'll be waiting for the PM result and the official report after the investigation.  The eyewitnesses didn't even get the right horse, and I really dislike drawing conclusions from this sort of reporting.  Generally speaking however, it's quite common for horses suffering heart failure to behave very strangely - including napping and bolting - before the actual catestrophic event occurs.
		
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This exactly, I had one and he came out of his stable that evening like a fire breathing dragon, so I decided he wasant safe to ride and I lunged him instead. He collapsed within 5 mins, having spent that 5 mins bucking, squealing and generaly being an idiot, and was dead a few minutes later. PM showed heart failure due to an enlarged ventricle (sorry if I've not got the terminology correct)


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## Fiona (13 October 2016)

I'm happy to wait until the final PM results etc are available, it really sounds like a case of mistaken identity (between different horses), so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now 

Fiona


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## Orangehorse (13 October 2016)

I read Kevin's reply too, and I would reserve judgement until there is a proper enquiry.
I had 2 14.00 ponies, both bay but one was a gelding and the other a mare.  They were very difficult to tell apart.  The one was a really good gymkhana pony and hunter but hopeless jumper, the other was brilliant jumper but otherwise a nutter.  People got very confused about the different performances.


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## MagicMelon (14 October 2016)

Hmm I think people could be given more credit, I doubt 3 greys would look that identical and usually if you're a fellow rider you would know what horses certain riders generally had. It sounds like he must have laid into the horse at some point so I dont believe the "2 smacks" rubbish, people dont go this mental over 2 smacks (which IMO are unacceptable but the vast majority of horse people think its fine). If he did beat his horse, he deserves to be banned from keeping and riding horses for life, simple. I hope the FEI come down extremely heavily on him (if true)


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## VikingSong (14 October 2016)

MagicMelon said:



			Hmm I think people could be given more credit, I doubt 3 greys would look that identical and usually if you're a fellow rider you would know what horses certain riders generally had. It sounds like he must have laid into the horse at some point so I dont believe the "2 smacks" rubbish, people dont go this mental over 2 smacks (which IMO are unacceptable but the vast majority of horse people think its fine). If he did beat his horse, he deserves to be banned from keeping and riding horses for life, simple. I hope the FEI come down extremely heavily on him (if true)
		
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This.


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## Rowreach (14 October 2016)

MagicMelon said:



			Hmm I think people could be given more credit, I doubt 3 greys would look that identical and usually if you're a fellow rider you would know what horses certain riders generally had. It sounds like he must have laid into the horse at some point so I dont believe the "2 smacks" rubbish, people dont go this mental over 2 smacks (which IMO are unacceptable but the vast majority of horse people think its fine). If he did beat his horse, he deserves to be banned from keeping and riding horses for life, simple. I hope the FEI come down extremely heavily on him (if true)
		
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The horse was wrongly identified in the first media report.


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## SpringArising (14 October 2016)

I don't believe what he said for a second. Sounds like he absolutely hounded the horse.


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## Luci07 (16 October 2016)

I think we need to have all the facts, correctly reported before making firm decisions. Reports are already contradicting earlier statements. If the PM shows he caused the horses death, then we will find out. If he didn't, we could well be destroying a mans career with this speculation.


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## Goldenstar (16 October 2016)

I have two greys .
I constantly have to tell people no thats the other one .
Alarmingly one is a TB and one is a ID .
It's perfectly possible that people got the horses mixed up.


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## claracanter (17 October 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			I have two greys .
I constantly have to tell people no thats the other one .
Alarmingly one is a TB and one is a ID .
It's perfectly possible that people got the horses mixed up.
		
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I have a chunky bay with white socks and a dark brown TB with no white and I am constantly telling people at the yard which one is which. However I think there is more to this case than mistaken identity.


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## LadySam (17 October 2016)

claracanter said:



			I have a chunky bay with white socks and a dark brown TB with no white and I am constantly telling people at the yard which one is which. However I think there is more to this case than mistaken identity.
		
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Yeah.  There was at least one eye witness who identified the horse correctly, despite what KT said.  He may have only been riding it for 20 minutes but I suspect he lunged the bejeezus out of it first.  Still, just a theory and I await more facts and the PM results with interest.


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## Lizzie66 (17 October 2016)

MagicMelon said:



			Hmm I think people could be given more credit, I doubt 3 greys would look that identical and usually if you're a fellow rider you would know what horses certain riders generally had. It sounds like he must have laid into the horse at some point so I dont believe the "2 smacks" rubbish, people dont go this mental over 2 smacks (which IMO are unacceptable but the vast majority of horse people think its fine). If he did beat his horse, he deserves to be banned from keeping and riding horses for life, simple. I hope the FEI come down extremely heavily on him (if true)
		
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SpringArising said:



			I don't believe what he said for a second. Sounds like he absolutely hounded the horse.
		
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Innocent until proven guilty. Lynch mob mentality is extremely low and people should not be judged based on social media.


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## Rowreach (17 October 2016)

http://www.theirishfield.ie/postmortem-results-on-flogas-sunset-cruise-inconclusive-231224/

... but no whip marks found.


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## Goldenstar (17 October 2016)

Rowreach said:



http://www.theirishfield.ie/postmortem-results-on-flogas-sunset-cruise-inconclusive-231224/

... but no whip marks found.
		
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Well I would say it's impossible to whip a horse to death without marking it.


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## Rowreach (17 October 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			Well I would say it's impossible to whip a horse to death without marking it.
		
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So would I.  I am also wondering about the many "eye witnesses" who "saw" him doing it.


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## Rowreach (18 October 2016)

http://www.theirishfield.ie/kevin-t...-group-for-riders-under-mental-stress-231334/


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## VikingSong (18 October 2016)

It should be remembered, before denigrating the eye witnesses who are all horsey people, they were present during the incident. None of us on here were.


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## sasquatch (19 October 2016)

VikingSong said:



			It should be remembered, before denigrating the eye witnesses who are all horsey people, they were present during the incident. None of us on here were.
		
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I feel like there is much more to this than meets the eye, especially as the post mortem and eye witness statements don't add up, people mistook the horse for a different horse etc. which if they are horsey people seems odd. 
The post mortem results also seem odd, in that there's no sign of a heart attack, no marks on the horse from whips or spurs and apparently no sign that the horse was even sweating when it collapsed. 

It's all just odd, as going by reports from both sides, the whole situation doesn't seem to make sense. I reckon there's more we are not being told somewhere, but it does make you wonder about the rider if people are reporting seeing him whipping/lunging a different horse to exhaustion anyway (even if it wasn't the horse that collapsed and died)


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## ester (19 October 2016)

I've missed the pm report and google is struggling is it anywhere one doesn't have to log in to view?


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## Fiona (19 October 2016)

ester said:



			I've missed the pm report and google is struggling is it anywhere one doesn't have to log in to view?
		
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The Irish Field lets you read 10 articles per month for free once you register ester...

Fiona


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## sasquatch (19 October 2016)

ester said:



			I've missed the pm report and google is struggling is it anywhere one doesn't have to log in to view?
		
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not sure if this will work - Duffy Sporthorses posted screenshots on their FB. 
https://www.facebook.com/DuffySportHorses/posts/1256043151126024

I have an Irishfield account, but can't remember my log in so was a bit stuck.


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## ester (19 October 2016)

Thanks both  

it seems odd that is the only place the report currently is, screenshots work though too


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## Lizzie66 (19 October 2016)

VikingSong said:



			It should be remembered, before denigrating the eye witnesses who are all horsey people, they were present during the incident. None of us on here were.
		
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sasquatch said:



			I feel like there is much more to this than meets the eye, especially as the post mortem and eye witness statements don't add up, people mistook the horse for a different horse etc. which if they are horsey people seems odd. 
The post mortem results also seem odd, in that there's no sign of a heart attack, no marks on the horse from whips or spurs and apparently no sign that the horse was even sweating when it collapsed. 

It's all just odd, as going by reports from both sides, the whole situation doesn't seem to make sense. I reckon there's more we are not being told somewhere, but it does make you wonder about the rider if people are reporting seeing him whipping/lunging a different horse to exhaustion anyway (even if it wasn't the horse that collapsed and died)
		
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The "eye witnesses" are anonymous people who have nothing to fear from being "denigrated". You appear quite happy to denounce a rider based on these witness statements when it appears the evidence doesn't actually back up what they claim to have witnessed. This therefore throws severe doubt on the validity of the statements, even if they did see a horse being whipped as they claim they obviously  have managed to mistake the horse so maybe they also mistook the rider.


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