# Hopping lame, but only in trot



## Destario (4 February 2017)

Just after some ideas really. 

*Rang the emergency vet from my practice because he really was that lame and he's on box rest and hand walking until Monday. Reassess daily and if worse ring for immediate call out, but if not wait till Monday, if still lame they'll come out then. Spoke on phone and sent video. *

Bop had a day off yesterday after going to my trainers yard on Wednesday for a lesson (nothing strenuous as very distracted and worked mainly on trot. My other dressage trainer came to mine for a lesson on Thursday. Much more intense but loads of breaks and lots in just walk. Had Friday off. He's been in since Tuesday as it's been so windy and he gets shivery by morning when he's out. Was supposed to be going back to overnight turnout today! Got on him today, walked up to arena waamed up in walk, walked over some pole exercises. He rolled a couple but they were super lightweight and he felt fine, and every horse rolls a pole! Felt lovely in walk. Asked for trot and immediately stopped and got off. Very very not sound. Walked him back to yard and trotted him up. Very very lame behind. Hopping lame. Lovely boy that Bop is he was more than happy to trot. No heat anywhere, no swelling, no stones in feet. Nothing sore to touch. 100% sound in walk and on small circle. Very not sound in trot. 

No idea what it could be. If he was stiff or less unsound I'd put it down to muscle strain. If he'd been out in the field, maybe a sprain after a slip. But he's been in his stable. Fine in himself. Felt very stupid ringing the vet but even a not horse person could see he's not right. 

Any ideas? He's golden in his stable so not too worried about him being on box rest, but I am worried about what on earth he has done!


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## Beausmate (4 February 2017)

Any sign of him getting cast?


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## Destario (4 February 2017)

No. No marks on the walls and the bed was tidy as usual. Can see where he lay down to sleep as more squashed than the rest of the bed. Rugs all straight too. Unless he got cast and made no mess of anything. Big stable too 13x15 and he's only 14hh. Big banks and deep bed because I'm worried about capped hocks (he turned up with one but it's gone right down now). Absolutely stumped. He's happy as anything when you trot him up too and not a hint in walk. :/


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## Hoof_Prints (4 February 2017)

If there is no swelling or pain reaction on palpation you would be thinking it's high up ie. pelvis, back issue.. or possible hind PSD (high up suspensory injury, the swelling is hidden by other structures in the leg) that can appear gradually without you realising . You could find out more with nerve blocks or just box rest and see how it goes  finger's crossed it's nothing major !


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## ycbm (4 February 2017)

Sudden severe lameness is an abscess the vast majority of the time.

As a vet once said to me in the same situation 'common things are common'


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## Destario (4 February 2017)

Im hoping it might be an abcess but it seems a bit more extreme than that (hope I'm wrong). He had physio on Tuesday and was in really good shape. Hoping it's a twinge and he's being a wimp. Maybe banged it in the stable. 
I've looked at the video and just cant decide where he's lame. He's obviously lame, can't miss it, but I can't pinfoint the location at all


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## Hoof_Prints (4 February 2017)

An abscess can be non weight bearing, they are extremely painful ! I would just expect them to be lame in walk with an abscess if the lameness is that bad.. but they can be awkward !


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## Theocat (4 February 2017)

You would have thought my mare had had her leg chopped off when she had an abcess - but equally, she showed it in walk (and halt!), not just trot.

I'd be really interested to hear how things progress - and fingers crossed it goes as quickly as it came.


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## 9tails (4 February 2017)

Hmm, I've had experience of a trot only abscess.  It was in the bottom right quarter of the hoof not near the edge so only seemed to hurt when there was more pressure.  Fingers crossed it is that.


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## splashgirl45 (4 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			Sudden severe lameness is an abscess the vast majority of the time.

As a vet once said to me in the same situation 'common things are common' 

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agree, that was my first thought..


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## ester (4 February 2017)

yup I'm plumping for abscess near the back of  the hoof


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## Destario (4 February 2017)

I'd happily pm the video of him walking and trotting up, but I've no idea how to do that.

I didn't immediately think abcess because he's so sound in halt and walk. Not resting a leg or anything, but agree could be a possibility (hopefully it is that!). 

I'll take bets on exact location  

He was a bit less lame when videod than when first trotted up (second trot up videod). 

I've bedded him up on an extra thick clean bed tonight with lots of haylage and will walk him in hand in the morning and video his trot up as well. Can't even decide whether to cold hose or not! Maybe there will be swelling in the morning.


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## skint1 (4 February 2017)

I'm going to go for abscess or a bruised foot. Back along my daughter was having lesson on my horse in the school and he was same, walking he was fine but lame in trot, in his case, he does have some arthritic issues so I did wonder if it was that, but equally when we'd picked his feet out earlier that day he'd somehow managed to wedge a massive flint stone right between his frog and heel, got farrier to have a look and he confirmed it


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## Destario (5 February 2017)

Update. Trotted up and video this morning. The same if not worse. Still no heat or swelling and no reactions to being prodded all over. But his temperament is so good that's not really helpful, I'm certain he'd let you wiggle your fingers around in an open wound! Got nextdoor racing groom to look and neither of us could work out if he's lame in a leg or back or abcess what. Sent video to good friend who is ace and says if surpenries feel ok then hopefully a very odd abcess. Hoping can pop in tomorrow and run pro eye over him. I've never dealt with anything like it. Took nextdoors groom by surprise just how bad he is - said he looked crippled! Took him for his in hand walk just now and he was very forward so fine in himself. All very very odd. Good job he loves his stable!


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## Destario (5 February 2017)

Borrowed the farrier who had popped in and no abcess. Doesnt think it's in the foot at all and he had a good look and watched him trot up. 

He was less lame this trot up but still notkgood, farrier thinks nearside hind and possibly muscular. Will keep an eye and keep in hand walking morning and afternoon and see how he goes.


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## cherylee (7 February 2017)

Hi any news I've been following this thread and hoping for some good news. Your story sounds very familiar to mine! My boy has damaged his suspensory ligament near the top he had no swelling or heat and only appeared lame in trot under saddle!


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## Destario (7 February 2017)

Still lame but less so. My physio is coming out this week for my mare so Im going to get her to have a look and feel for any tightness/soreness as he's so unreactive but it looks muscular. Tempted to say he's sprained his stifle, which is weaker anyway but is getting stronger. Still no heat or swelling and I'm going to turn him out for an hour tomorrow and see if walking about helps at all. He's so sensible in the field (famous last words!) that I'm hoping he might not further hurt. If still lame by end of week I'll get the vet, but as he's getting less lame I'm hoping it may resolve itself. Luckily his only booked thing is end of April and I just haven't entered anything I was going to. 

I'd think with suspensories he'd at least be resting a leg or even slightly lame in walk! But still sound as a pound except in trot. 

Also if he goes out he may roll and I can see him getting up (which I can't in the box as he only snoozes when no one's about) whech might help locate the problem. 

I'll trot him up again tomorrow and see how he is.


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## cherylee (7 February 2017)

I shall keep everything crossed for you, hopefully it will sort itself out.


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## Destario (8 February 2017)

Trotted up today and he's much improved. Still lame, but no longer crippled. Definitely behind but hard to tell which leg, think it's stifle area or maybe a muscle up in the bum somewhere. He doesn't seem to be in pain but he's a stoic little guy.


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## skint1 (8 February 2017)

Glad there's some improvement, hope it continues to go the right way for you both. they're such a worry sometimes aren't they?


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## Destario (13 February 2017)

Update on Bop. 

Much less lame now. Physio was out to see my mare on friday and saw him trot up plus the video of him from sunday. Saw tde vid after and exclaimed loudly about how awful he looked. Suggested as looking better he get a little ride in w/t/c in the arena and see how he was after. So hopfed on and went with a neighbour horse to babysit us to the arena, feeling very fresh. Walked ariund feeling good (but felt good in walk before!) and started a bit of trot. Felt ok but a couple of times we stumbled a bit with back right leg and decided to do airs above ground. 3rd times of bouncing in the air like a rocking horse I hopped off and called it quits. Felt lame every time just before explosion and didnt want him damaging more. Back in box and stayed in Sunday as well. 

Lunged him thes afternoon and had a couple of weird gallopy charges with jumpy bits in (not surprisingly being on box rest for over a week!) but being a gent he stayed on the circle and didn't tug on the line too much. Seemed happy to trot but very stretchy down nose on floor gentle trot. To be honest if he did that on the lunge from now on I'd be ecstatic as he takes ages to get there usually. Cantered left, less bounce and kept chanping behind to right. Would correct when asked but changed again etc. Swapped rein and a couple of charges followed by same stretch down trot and a bet less energy (but may have exhausted himself by this point!). Harder to get into canter (needed to swish the whip a bit) and he was true but trotted after a half circle every time. Both canters looked tight behind. Seemed very happy to be out doing something. Hardly lame on the arena surface, just looked tight/stiff so was happy to keep him trotting and cantering. He wasn't out for long. 

Trotted up in the yard and still a bit lame but looks muscular and above hock line, so think the pulled muscle in stifle/hip area is sounding a good theory. Maybe overextended when he rolled a pole and tweaked it - I khow it happens to me sometimes! 

Managed to grab some bute so will se if that helps over the next few days and have contacted she physio who wanted an update after exercise. So might have a physio and think I'll trot him up and if still getting better then another lunge and trot up.


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## ycbm (13 February 2017)

This post is only relevant if your vet has not prescribed the bute.  I can't see any mention of your horse having seen a vet yet, and he's been lame for ten days tomorrow. Have I missed something?

Pain exists for a reason. One purpose of it is to stop the horse doing things which will make the injury worse. If he is getting better and does not seem to be in much pain, it could be counter productive to give him bute at this stage. ( Leaving aside the fact that it would be illegal to do it without instruction from a vet.)

Fingers crossed for continued improvement.


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## Alec Swan (13 February 2017)

How old is the horse?

Alec.


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## Pinkvboots (13 February 2017)

I think by now I would be getting a vet out, I wouldn't be lunging or making the horse do too much as you don't really know what's making him so lame and you could be causing more damage. A physio should not really be looking at or treating a lame horse without your vets permission either.


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## SusieT (13 February 2017)

I think you are wrong to be lungeing and encouraging activity - it could be an abscess, bruise or soft tissue injury ie ligament  which work will make worse. box rest until vet seen (and to be honest I'd be a bit unhappy with vets not coming to see an acutely lame horse when asked to ... if it had been an abscess considerable pain could have been aleviated by draining at the time although it sounds less lik ena abscess now)


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## ester (13 February 2017)

Did the vet come out last Monday in the end? -I think you said they were going to if still lame?

Either way he sounds like he needs them out again if they did.


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## Destario (13 February 2017)

No pain in the horse at all. Significantly better and barely lame now. Very much seems muscular. Lunge was very short and very big circle, didn't seem lame at all on the surface. If he had done I would have stopped. Physio saw him on friday as was up anyway and agreed probably muscular. My vets are happy with physio seeing him. He's 9. I would have turned him out into my small paddock but it's very slippy and I'd rather he jump about in the arena under my control than round slippy field. 

I haven't had the vet out because they left me to see how he was and to only call them if much worse or no improvement. He's got better everyday and improved to the point he just looks a bit stiff, and considering he's been in for a week that's pretty good going. Obviously if he's more lame tomorrow morning no lunging, but if he's better then he can have another in hand walk and if still good a little lunge in the afternoon. And if he is still the same lameness level in a couple more days the vet will come out. They have been saying to continue the box rest and call them out if necessary. They've seen video of him. 

In regards to the bute, it is the sort of injury I'd give bute to as it seems to be muscular. Judgement now is he's barely lame at all - so much so that anyone seeing him would say a couple of days box rest and walking out and he'll be fine. It's such a massive change from day 1 that I'm happy enough it isn't anything awful and is just a muscular thing. Physio would be feeling for tightness in the relevant muscles and not doing any work other than that. 

In the grand scheme of things I feel that his improvement is fast enough to indicate no serious problems and the continued lack of heat or swelling anywhere despite box rest and no reaction to prodding indicates he's generally ok. And considering the vet's brilliant idea that it was a stone in his foot and he wasn't lame at all, I'm going to continue as they suggested with box rest and in hand walking and let him mooch on a lunge line if he looks better. Farrier, physio, 2 race trainers and an extremely knowledgeable YM think muscular (all independently) and to call vet if no change in next couple of days now the lameness is so slight. He has till weds and then the vet will be called, fresh video sent and they'll do a full lameness workup if necessary.


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## Destario (13 February 2017)

Vet saw fresh video monday as requested and as much less lame said to continue box rest and in hand walking. Farrier saw him as he was passing and not a sign of abcess. Said didn't look anywhere near foot and looked muscular. Gave feet a good look over all the way up to fetlock and found nothing. 

No longer acutely lame, just looks stiff. Hence why I let him get on the lunge. He's very sensible and charged around for half a circle then settled and didn't look lame at all. Looked stiff type lame on trot up but very very mild. 

It's a lameness I was very tempted to field rest rather than box rest but went with the vet. Especially as he can get stiff behind if he stays in for prolonged periods. He's not had any heat or swelling anywhere (except his belly! But haylage and no exercise will do that!). I've been religiously checking his legs 3 times a day and after trot ups and not a bit of change. The box rest seems to be working, and he's barely lame. The exercise, if it is a ligament or tendon problem will show a location with a bit of heat or swelling in the morning or more lameness and if that's the case then vet and no more outdoor time for Bop. Either way he's being videod tomorrow for the vet and they'll probablu just say keep doing what I'm doing and to call if he gets worse or no improvement.

ETA: worth noting that he has seemed less lame every trot up after he's had an in hand walk and when he trotted up for the farrier he seemed less lame each run. So another reason a few people who have seen him in person suggested and I agreed about popping him on the lunge for a really quick w/t/c to help potentially loosen up the tight muscles. Watching him go round on hes massive circle stretching his back I'm inclined to think he felt better having moved around and his trot up was better again. Tomorrow he might be worse, in which case it was the wrong decision to let him move about. But even so it will at least help identify the problem if it isn't muscular.


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## ycbm (13 February 2017)

If he is now hardly lame at all why are you thinking of starting him on bute? It seems at best pointless, will confuse the issue if you are increasing his movement, and at worst possibly detrimental.


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## Destario (13 February 2017)

Thinking how I get if pulled a muscle - anti inflam to help reduce muscle swelling and help with low grade pain. Bute does the same thing and I really see no reason not to. If I had my normal vet they would 99% have sent me Bute and said field rest and Bute because they know him and how chilled he is in the field. As it is my vet is on a well deserved holiday and I've got a vet from the practice I dont know and who doesn't know my horses so is obviously being very careful and trying to save me money by saying to send video and only call out if worse or no improvement as didn't think it was emergency type lameness after seeing a couple of videos that day and the following couple of days.


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## Scatterbrain (14 February 2017)

The vet is "obviously being very careful and trying to save you money" by not attending and opting to watch your videos instead?? Sounds more like it is YOU that is trying to save yourself money. I would have had the vet out long before now.


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## Destario (14 February 2017)

Money for vet isn't a problem. Vet has repeatedly said not worth coming out unless the rest doesn't improve as they would suggest rest and wait for improvement before doing a full workup. My ysual vet is great but I don't know this one personally, she was happy to see video (she asked for video) and leave him on box rest and see what happens. He's already much better and looking more like a muscle problem round his stifle. I wouldn't usually even contact vet for lameness as generally box rest fixes if no heat or swelling but I was on the phone all last weekend as it was so pronounced and I've followed their advice. They have repeatedly said only to call them if it gets worse or no improvement, none of which has happened. And as it has been looking more and more muscular a good few knowledgeable people suggested a small lunge to see if it helped, and if it didn't then that's an extra thing to help the vet work out the problem. I'm not ignoring any vet advice, nor am I not in contact with them. But they seem to be of the opinion that no point coming out and telling me box rest when they can do so over the phone. He's dramatically improving daily so they are happy that box rest and in hand walking obviously working. 

I've tried to give as much relevant detail here as the very pronounced lameness, but only in trot, is not something I've come across before and was hoping for some extra ideas about what the cause could be. So far most popular suggestion (and pretty much only) was abcess. But farrier has checked thoroughly and it really doesn't look like a foot lameness. I kept people updated because people asked. 

I've seen lots of lameness over the years that you bute and box rest for a week and then carry on as usual with no call to the vet at all  I've also seen plenty of lameness where after no improvement vet comes out and changes the regime slightly and all goes well.


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## ycbm (14 February 2017)

Destario said:



			Thinking how I get if pulled a muscle - anti inflam to help reduce muscle swelling and help with low grade pain. Bute does the same thing and I really see no reason not to. If I had my normal vet they would 99% have sent me Bute and said field rest and Bute because they know him and how chilled he is in the field. As it is my vet is on a well deserved holiday and I've got a vet from the practice I dont know and who doesn't know my horses so is obviously being very careful and trying to save me money by saying to send video and only call out if worse or no improvement as didn't think it was emergency type lameness after seeing a couple of videos that day and the following couple of days.
		
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But you are going to increase his movement and mask any pain that increase in movement may add by starting giving him bute at the same time. No sensible vet would do that.

Unless I misunderstood your comment about 'got hold of some bute' and he has been on it all along?

I agree with you that it sounds muscular, but it wouldn't be the first time a foot abscess has been missed by a farrier, or come and go over several weeks before it finally makes its presence unmistakable. 

Can we see your videos, it would be interesting?


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## Destario (14 February 2017)

Be happy to share video via pm but no idea how! Farrier found nothing and watched him trot up a few times and said he was certain not a foot problem and was muscular. My trainer watched him am trot up when she was over for a lesson and thought muscular around his stifle. Then race trainer from nextdoor saw him trot up and also thought muscular and all suggested (including phusio whoksaw his trot up) that a gentle lunge would be worth a go and see if better or worse - considering how much better he is. 

My farrier is coming today to shoe my mare so he can have a look for abcess as well but really doesn't look like it. 

The bute is on standby if he's worse today (only a few days light supply) and if he's worse then no more exercise. If he's looking much better and still good by pm trot up then he'll have another wander on the lunge and no bute. He looked totally sound in the arena, just tight behind. Video of am trot up will be going to vet and if they want to come see him they can.


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## Destario (14 February 2017)

Update. Moning trot up very good. Don't think he'll need the bute, very full of himself and tanked a groom across the yard so obviously not too sore! Sent video to vet waiting to hear back but seems very much improved even from yesterday.


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## Destario (16 February 2017)

Update again. 

Vet was out to nextdoor so borrowed him to watch trot up. Showed him original video too. He agrees muscular and thinks a physio treatment will sort him out and to bring back into work/lunge etc. If suddenly goes like it again then get full work up done. 

Will see when I can get my physio out for him!


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## Pinkvboots (16 February 2017)

Destario said:



			Money for vet isn't a problem. Vet has repeatedly said not worth coming out unless the rest doesn't improve as they would suggest rest and wait for improvement before doing a full workup. My ysual vet is great but I don't know this one personally, she was happy to see video (she asked for video) and leave him on box rest and see what happens. He's already much better and looking more like a muscle problem round his stifle. I wouldn't usually even contact vet for lameness as generally box rest fixes if no heat or swelling but I was on the phone all last weekend as it was so pronounced and I've followed their advice. They have repeatedly said only to call them if it gets worse or no improvement, none of which has happened. And as it has been looking more and more muscular a good few knowledgeable people suggested a small lunge to see if it helped, and if it didn't then that's an extra thing to help the vet work out the problem. I'm not ignoring any vet advice, nor am I not in contact with them. But they seem to be of the opinion that no point coming out and telling me box rest when they can do so over the phone. He's dramatically improving daily so they are happy that box rest and in hand walking obviously working. 

I've tried to give as much relevant detail here as the very pronounced lameness, but only in trot, is not something I've come across before and was hoping for some extra ideas about what the cause could be. So far most popular suggestion (and pretty much only) was abcess. But farrier has checked thoroughly and it really doesn't look like a foot lameness. I kept people updated because people asked. 

I've seen lots of lameness over the years that you bute and box rest for a week and then carry on as usual with no call to the vet at all  I've also seen plenty of lameness where after no improvement vet comes out and changes the regime slightly and all goes well.
		
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I hope your horse has improved now but I must admit your vets procedure is one of the strangest I have ever known, I fail to understand how they would advise you about lameness from watching a  video I have had horses for 30 years and dealt with many vets over the years but have never sent them videos instead of getting them out, surely it's not in their interest to do this from a money sense of view and also its a recipe for disaster if something was seriously wrong and the wrong advise was given.


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## milliepops (16 February 2017)

Pinkvboots said:



			I hope your horse has improved now but I must admit your vets procedure is one of the strangest I have ever known, I fail to understand how they would advise you about lameness from watching a  video I have had horses for 30 years and dealt with many vets over the years but have never sent them videos instead of getting them out, surely it's not in their interest to do this from a money sense of view and also its a recipe for disaster if something was seriously wrong and the wrong advise was given.
		
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This  I'm happy for you OP that he seems to be improving but for me I've always wanted them to come and see the horse in the flesh, poke and prod it +/- any diagnostics that would be relevant.  Whereabouts are you based OP?


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## SEL (16 February 2017)

I've sent a vet a video before - but her response was 'yup, looks off - when are you free for me to come out.' Mare was recovering was tying up at the time so I would have fully understood if she'd told me to wait and see whether she got better.

btw OP - you'd barely notice my gelding with advanced ringbone was lame at walk and canter, but in trot its very pronounced. He's had it for a long time but it got significantly worst when he had an altercation with another horse and the sidebone he was also growing fractured. I would have been a bit miffed if the vet had asked me to keep sending videos rather than turning up with the x-ray machine when I rang.


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## Alec Swan (16 February 2017)

If the problem's in the stifle and the horse is now 9 years old,  are you aware of him having an OCD op when he was a youngster?  If he had growth related problems then about now could well be the time for the onset of arthritis in the previously effected joint.

Alec.


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## Destario (16 February 2017)

Problem seems to be the muscle over the left hip, vet poked a bit and he was reactive (in as much as it started rippling and dipped away a little from him). 

Stifle problem was just weakness and lack of straightness, but have been very aware that in building it up it needs doing slowlykto prevent injuring it. He's also a welsh D so would hope no OCD problems. 

Vet shought not emergency type lame and a wait and see before bringing all the kit (scans xray machines etc) and as he was improving we were both happy to keep going. Obviously if he goes wrong again after a bit of work we'll do a full workup.


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## Alec Swan (16 February 2017)

Thanks for the update Destario.

Alec.


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