# Hindgut Ulcers



## ktj1891 (29 December 2012)

In Veterinary as well

Anyone had any experience with these?
What made you believe your horse had them?
What proven treatments you used to combat them?

I basically have an ex racer that windsucks, hes never held great condition or weight and he toe drags. Back in the summer I had him scoped and he had nothing in terms of ulcers so no treatment prescribed.

I have recently had vet out to examine toe drag completely sound after flexion however, my vet was concerned with his dull coat and condition. We took blood and tested his liver and for tapeworm.

Bloods and liver pretty much clear but my vet advised to feed milk thistle and tapeworm was moderate so I wormed for this. I have also decided to change his feed from Simple Systems to Pure feeds, just changed today so will record if/or any progress.

My thoughts are could he possible have hindgut ulcers and if so what is the most PROVEN effective way to deal with them?

Thank you


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## SadKen (29 December 2012)

There have been a few threads on this before (I only know because I've looked it up before as I was concerned myself). Our vet says its a possibility but unlikely as he doesn't have a huge amount of symptoms but some things do make me scratch my head, like girthiness and chewing at times. 

You may find the following link useful, there's a lot of info:

http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/horse_ulcers.htm

I don't know about proven, but I've taken my lad off alfalfa, give him limestone flour and mag ox in fast fibre, ad lib hay in a trickle net and make sure he has the haynet for a good half an hour before I tack up and start working. Seems to be working for us as he's cheered up and is only gritty on initial doing up of girth now.

I'm no expert but it doesn't sound like there's a lot of ulcer symptoms for your boy as windsucking inflates the tummy, but wouldn't think it would help hindgut pain... Definitely not an expert though!


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## Frozen Hoof Boots (29 December 2012)

Hey there,  my boy was scoped for ulcers just over two weeks ago after he colicked twice, resistant to leg and stiif on left rein etc, depressed, moody resistant to work and he has pyloric region gastric ulcers.  He's just done two weeks GG at high dose and now on 1/4 tube for next 2 weeks.  After 48 hours he was a different horse and back to being his usual self but as the first week passed he got crabby again and depressed.  Sensitive to rugging, kicking when i touch nr his sheath/inside hind thigh whereas i can cuddle him there... Hating being brushed and backing up to the wall if i try to put anything round his middle.  Pooing when i pick his hinds up and can show soreness behind.  More shuffling round the stable on OS hind and less hight of flight in pickup.  Of course this could be sacroiliac issues or hock as he could have slipped in the field.  He regularly treated by Chiro and Equine Myo bodyworker.

Having discussed with the vet we're trying sucraflate for one week to eliminate hind gut ulcers.  In his words we're treating blind but agreed that we need to eliminate as possibility.  He said the Succeed fecial test was not worth doing as gives false positives. 

Look at this http://www.drkerryridgway.com/articles/article-ulcers.php. Very interesting reading.

We had a TB 20 years ago that was a cribber and knowing what I know now I would put money on the fact she has ulcers.

Pls feel free to PM me... I need a gastric ulcer buddy


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## fusspot (30 December 2012)

Hi, my boy was scoped and had Grade 2-3 Pyloric and Squamos Ulcers,he has had a complete diet change with absolutely no cereal based feed to be included at all.He has had 2 months on GG with also for the first month antibiotics.He was rescoped for the 3rd time last week and he is totally clear apart from one very small patch.We decided to now leave him off anymore GG and rescope in a few months to see if all other changes have made any difference.The only signs he showed to suspect Ulcers was trying to bolt when asked to turn right when being ridden and losing a bit of condition.He does travel a lot and is Welsh so a natural worrier.Apart from the total diet change he is now on an Ulcer maintenance supplement,have just changed him back onto Topspec Calmer and a Prebiotic. The one thing that my vet said was that we somehow had to get him to eat oil as this helps bind everything in the gut,he has to have minimum 100ml per day which I actually give him 50ml in each of his 3 feeds.As much time out as they are nearly always grazing so the chewing cuts down the acid production or if in,adlib hay or Haylage. Sorry for the essay and hope this helps!.


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## Natch (30 December 2012)

How interesting, I didn't even know they could get hindgut ulcers. Would that be down to feed passing through the stomach too quickly and acidity from the stomach getting into the intestine?


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## maggiesmum (30 December 2012)

OP - which foot is he dragging? 

Hindgut ulcers are far more prevalent than first realised, gastroscopes really are only half of the story and treatment with GG is likely to make hindgut ulcers worse - as M&S said it allows undigested food into the hindgut creating acidity.

IMO Ranitidine really is fantastic for treating ulcers of any kind, it treats both kinds therefore kills 2 birds with one stone rather than treating gastric with GG then having to deal with hindgut ulcers afterwards. 6 weeks on ranitidine changed my boy completely which was something that 6 months of trying GG, then cimetidine and antepsin didn't. 
Ranitidine isn't expensive either so probably worth trying if theres any suspicion.


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## TwoStroke (30 December 2012)

Great info, maggiesmum - I didn't know that ranitidine treats hind gut as well as stomach ulcers. Do you have any more info on how that works?


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## tallyho! (30 December 2012)

I thought omeprazole was much better these days?


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## maggiesmum (30 December 2012)

tallyhohoho! said:



			I thought omeprazole was much better these days?
		
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It is but only for treating gastric ulcers, it doesn't treat hindgut ulcers and can make them worse as the suppression of stomach acid allows undigested food to pass into the hindgut creating acidity therefore worsening hindgut ulcers.


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## maggiesmum (30 December 2012)

TwoTurtleDoves said:



			Great info, maggiesmum - I didn't know that ranitidine treats hind gut as well as stomach ulcers. Do you have any more info on how that works?
		
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If you PM me your email addy i've got some papers by Dr Ridgeway which explain it far better than I can.


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## tallyho! (30 December 2012)

maggiesmum said:



			It is but only for treating gastric ulcers, it doesn't treat hindgut ulcers and can make them worse as the suppression of stomach acid allows undigested food to pass into the hindgut creating acidity therefore worsening hindgut ulcers.
		
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I see. Thanks for that.


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## TwoStroke (30 December 2012)

Thanks, maggiesmum - will do .

Tallyho - omeprazole is gastroguard, licensed for horses.


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## tallyho! (30 December 2012)

TwoTurtleDoves said:



			Thanks, maggiesmum - will do .

Tallyho - omeprazole is gastroguard, licensed for horses.
		
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Duh... two + two = just got it


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## ktj1891 (30 December 2012)

Can you buy ranitidine without prescription?


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## maggiesmum (30 December 2012)

Yes as Zantac but its only as 75mg tablets which is pretty unworkable given the dose you'd need to treat a horse for 6 weeks. 
Much easier to either get them from the vet or ask for a prescription, relative to GG it's not expensive.


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## ktj1891 (30 December 2012)

maggiesmum said:



			Yes as Zantac but its only as 75mg tablets which is pretty unworkable given the dose you'd need to treat a horse for 6 weeks. 
Much easier to either get them from the vet or ask for a prescription, relative to GG it's not expensive.
		
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Okay if I mention it to my vet and request it would there prescribe it, I don't know if they vet would agree with me self-diagnosing my horse, but hes in such poor shape atm Im running out of ideas!


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## PortuguesePony (30 December 2012)

maggiesmum said:



			Yes as Zantac but its only as 75mg tablets which is pretty unworkable given the dose you'd need to treat a horse for 6 weeks. 
Much easier to either get them from the vet or ask for a prescription, relative to GG it's not expensive.
		
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Define ... "not expensive"..?!  I also suspect one of my horses to have ulcers, poss hindgut and have read some not so great stuff about GastroGuard re hindgut etc too so wondering what the alternatives are..

And despite being insured, as I understand it, ulcer treatment is only covered if you have the horse scoped? Which won't detect hindgut ulcers anyway it seems .. Anyone know/have any experience re cost of ranitidine? (Sorry I don't mean that to sound as cold as it undoubtedly does!!  )


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## Goldenstar (30 December 2012)

It's my understanding that GG may be linked to causing hind gut ulcers .
There is a supplement called Egusin which was found to be useful is helping hindgut ulcers google it I found the test results online when I was researching this subject.


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## ktj1891 (31 December 2012)

Goldenstar said:



			It's my understanding that GG may be linked to causing hind gut ulcers .
There is a supplement called Egusin which was found to be useful is helping hindgut ulcers google it I found the test results online when I was researching this subject.
		
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Yeah I have had this recommended to me as well. Has anyone actually used it though and seen proven results. From what I have read your cannot scope the hind gut so what scientific evidence do they have to show it treats hindgut ulcers, I have seen there experiment on those 30 horses or something like that and seen the pics of the improvements but that was of the horses stomach?


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## PortuguesePony (31 December 2012)

Goldenstar said:



			It's my understanding that GG may be linked to causing hind gut ulcers .
		
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Yes this is what I understood too. GG seems to be the first thing Vets prescribe though (!) 



Goldenstar said:



			There is a supplement called Egusin which was found to be useful is helping hindgut ulcers google it I found the test results online when I was researching this subject.
		
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Yes, the Portuguese Pony is on Egusin at the moment, I did start a thread about it (below) recently to ask if anyone had any advice but nobody replied  Is it in case I am a "troll"?! 

His girthyness has gone but he is still very much behind the leg so just trying to decide if this is still due to possible ulcers or remembered pain/the result of the poor way he was ridden and trainined previously .. he is a project horse, I have had him less than a year and he is progressing well with correct training but I just still feel that there is *something* holding him back (physical or mental). No obvious pain or discomfort, everything checked and double checked so I was kind of hoping it was ulcers tbh (!) He is definitely "softer" in his way of going since the Egusin but for a breed renouned for being very "hot", he is a bit backwards under saddle!!


http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=583504


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## tallyho! (31 December 2012)

What about herbal stuff? Has anyone found this has helped?


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## amandap (31 December 2012)

Even if they don't have ulcers in the hindgut any hind gut irritation affects them
the main reason appears to be high sugar diets (including in grass and hay) not enough forage, stress and standing for long periods without forage. Measures such as SadKen describes to slow down consumption will help along with feeding a low sugar and starch high forage diet.
Here's another link but it is related to a product. http://www.succeed-equine.com/succe...lcer-free-pt-3-colonic-ulcers-in-the-hindgut/
If your horse has the symptoms already described, is gassy, gets the runs then to me these are warning signs of irritated hindgut to me. 

There is info on the net about sugars (either in excess or indigestible ones) spilling over into the hindgut and causing problems if you search about this subject and laminitis.

Here's a couple. http://goodhorsekeeping.blogspot.ie/2010/12/ulcers-in-horses.html
http://www.barefoothorseblog.blogspot.ie/search/label/hind gut acidosis

The other thing about hindgut irritation is horses troubled also cannot digest forages properly. Low sugar/starch forage is where they should get their main source of feed and energy.


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## ktj1891 (31 December 2012)

Thank you for your responses, I am now feeding my horse pure condition thins NSC is around 12% is that too high, he was on Simple Systems but his coat is so dull and hes not gaining any weight. Hes also on milk thisle and ad lib hay/haylege as grass was cut so late its still pretty dry so pretty much hay. In summer he was scoped and was on this same diet but out at grass as well and had no gastric ulcers considering hes an ex-racer and he windsucks as well.


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## Lucky Lad (1 May 2015)

Hi, I know this is an old thread but I'm interested to know how you got the rantidine Maggies Mum. I wanted to PM you but couldn't figure out how 
My boy has foregut ulcers which we're treating and he's improved, although they were very mild. I'm more concerned about the hind gut and have him on Egusin at present. I've also taken him off beet which has been the biggest change.
I saw you went to a Kerry Ridgeway Clinic, I'm hoping to as well. Did you find it helpful? 
Thanks


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## tallyho! (1 May 2015)

Lucky Lad said:



			Hi, I know this is an old thread but I'm interested to know how you got the rantidine Maggies Mum. I wanted to PM you but couldn't figure out how 
My boy has foregut ulcers which we're treating and he's improved, although they were very mild. I'm more concerned about the hind gut and have him on Egusin at present. I've also taken him off beet which has been the biggest change.
I saw you went to a Kerry Ridgeway Clinic, I'm hoping to as well. Did you find it helpful? 
Thanks
		
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You can get ranitidine anywhere. They sell it in tescos.


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## YasandCrystal (1 May 2015)

LuckyLad I have just bout 600 x 150mg ranitidine tablets from India on eBay for £13.99 for my horse.


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## Ali27 (2 May 2015)

YasandCrystal said:



			LuckyLad I have just bout 600 x 150mg ranitidine tablets from India on eBay for £13.99 for my horse.
		
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What dose would a horse need?


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## YasandCrystal (2 May 2015)

Ali27 said:



			What dose would a horse need?
		
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That I need to check but I imagine you would be looking at 15 - 20 tablets in a feed. I remember doing a trial years ago and giving 10 tablets in each feed.

I will be looking for the 600 tablets to last the month along with the Gastro gard I will be giving.


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## Pigeon (2 May 2015)

Can't you do a fecal test for presence of blood, which is indicative of hindgut ulcers? I know that's not a hard diagnosis either way, but might help the vet decide.


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