# Entire male dogs - if you have had one....



## sloulou (6 January 2009)

Can I ask about your experiences?

Am interested in the following:

Have you owned an entire male dog - how have you found it in terms of behaviour/ training? (and were they a stud dog or not?)

If you have owned an entire male - have you ever changed your mind and got them castrated later on in life (ie. once fully mature so over about 18 months old)? Why did you decided to do that and did you actually notice any behavioural changes?

Have you ever owned both entire and castrated together - what differences have you noticed?

I am interested because i have had alot of conflicting advice/ opinions recently and I want to hear real experiences  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Basically some people just believe in castration (for whatever reason) and so will advise that - others are totally against it and will go with that - neither of which are particularly helpful to me as they don't add anything. Am after opinions from people with direct experience if possible.

Thank you very much you lovely people


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## Nailed (6 January 2009)

My whippet is entire and we have never had a moments trouble with him. He has been a stud dog shortly and we still have no trouble with him.

He's not aggressive, doesnt hump anything that moves and is generally a nice person!!

Lou x


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

Thanks Lou  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 very helpful 

Just an extra question - how about if you meet a bitch who has recently been in season or is currently in season - does he run after them?


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## MurphysMinder (6 January 2009)

I have had an entire male who was used at stud.  He had a wonderful temperament and would mix happily with other males, entire and castrated. He was probably the most laid back dog I have ever owned.  Have also had a male who was entire till he was about 2.  He was very reactive with other dogs and hard work to have at shows (competed him in agility).  He was castrated to try and calm him down, he did improve slightly but you could never really relax when other dogs were about. 
If I had another male I would castrate I think (I am talking dogs here but then again  
	
	
		
		
	


	




), but wouldn't do so till about 9 months.
Sorry thats probably not a lot of help is it?


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## peanut (6 January 2009)

My sister has a one year old entire lab and it mounts every bitch in sight.  It has to be shut in a different room when bitches are around and it howls. 

The dog's a nightmare but she's reluctant to get its bits cut off in case it affects its hunting/competitive instinct


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## rabatsa (6 January 2009)

We used to have an adult male rescue dog that would wander the village given half a chance. The vet recommended castration and within a matter of weeks the dog was happy to stay at home and even ignored in season bitches. After that any dog that will not be used for breeding has the op.


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

That is helpful  
	
	
		
		
	


	





We didn't castrate Loki because we were advised to wait until at least 18 months for growth plates etc etc.  So I have one behavioural issue which has cropped up last week - and am getting much conflicting advice and i just want some real experinces i guess, to try to make sense of it and make my own decision.

Am guessing so much depends on the temprament of the dog... Loki is completely non- agressive, doesn't mark and doesn't hump other dogs. He also gets on with other entire males - they just sometimes don't like him!


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

Ah - now that is interesting rabatsa  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  how old was the dog when castrated? If you know?

One person has said to me that castration at Loki's age will now have no effect as the behaviours are learnt by this stage - hence why I was interested in whether people saw a difference after castration.


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
My sister has a one year old entire lab and it mounts every bitch in sight.  It has to be shut in a different room when bitches are around and it howls. 

The dog's a nightmare but she's reluctant to get its bits cut off in case it affects its hunting/competitive instinct  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds like a nightmare  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  - thankfully mine doesn't do that


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## huggz (6 January 2009)

It really depends on the Dogs temperament.
My nuetered boy is really dominant over entire males &amp; will spot a bitch in heat from a mile away. He cocks his leg everywhere on walks too. 
My entire boy (stud) is fine around the farm, but "loses it" if he catches a whiff of a bitch in season, who he doesn't get to "meet" &amp; will be a nightmare for a week or more.
When he is 7 he will be nuetered &amp; hopefully his hormones will settle.
I own him in partnership &amp; allowing him to be used to selected femails was part of the contract...or he'd be done by now. 
both work well in working trials &amp; are a joy to own.


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## woolly (6 January 2009)

Our Wolfie was entire and we planned to keep him that way as there was no need at the time to worry. He was non aggressive and never used anyone/furniture to vent his frustrations if he had any. The big difference came after a year or so as where we lived at the time, (on a secure RAF station) and surroundings, many idiots would let their in season bitches roam or better still thought it was a great idea to let children aged 8 and lightly built, walk hoofing great German Shepherds! Several incidents in one week made us go for the chop:
1) bitch in season taken to a communal dog walking place and left to  wander with several entire males including our own
2) watched small child get dragged across a road by German shepherd (our dog and the GSD) both on a lead but although I had control of my dog she had  non and the GSD was only too keen to present herself
3) our dog began to drop serious amounts of weight (10kg in a week) even though he was 78KG at the time he started to look ribby and was constantly exhausted and driven to go out, meaning that on average per day he slept after around 6 hours hard exercise and hunting, for 10 mins at a time only. This began to be detrimental to his health.
We had him cut aged 18 months and after he improved in the fact he wasn't driven. He remembered that bitches in season smelt nice and for a moment would be interested, but then was non plussed. He was still as non aggressive as ever but did have a tendancy to put on a little weight which was counteracted with exercise and diet. Overall a good decision albeit uneccessary if every dog owner exercised a little bit of common sense and consideration. It cost us £220 and was worth it for a happier dog.
To the poster who has concerns about neutering affecting hunting this is a nonsense and don't worry one bit. Our dog was a prolific hunter and after neutering him gave him even more energy. He was even more focussed than before bagging a fox (preban) by overtaking an entire pack of hounds and the master and in front of a very horrified me snatching and dispatching the fox with one shake...Thank God the Master found it funny!!!!!
Our dog was never intended to be bred from as had OCD as a pup, was not conformationally perfect and bought purely as a pet. We had no intention of ever breeding from him although he had a good pedigree. His nature was superb and he was soooo gentle and never ever had to be muzzled even for vets. He never ever growled at a human or even bared his teeth to anything yet would hunt like a demon.


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## _Acolyte_ (6 January 2009)

We had an entire male lurcher who we had from a pup until he was 6 years old - he was deliberately never used at stud, although he was stunning, and he was as good as gold.  Never roamed (never got the chance!) never annoying with other dogs of either sex, never tried to mount other dogs....

We had him at the same time as a castrated male lurcher, and there was no difference at all in their behaviour.

Mac was finally castrated when we had to hand him into a rescue organisation when we divorced - I always felt it was a shame, as he was never any bother  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I was also brought up with entire males (stud dogs and non-stud dogs) living in the same house as bitches in season etc etc - they were Cavaliers, so all fabulous temperaments, but no difference in behaviour between castrated and non-castrated.  The castrated ones used to get fat more easily, and grow a longer curlier coat  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  The stud dogs were just like stallions on a stud - they knew when it was right to get sexy, and when it wasnt, and acted accordingly


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## Ravenwood (6 January 2009)

I have two male dogs, one castrated, one entire.

My lab was castrated at about a year old because of his OCD and therefore could not be bred from.  I don't think it has changed his temperament in any way, he has only ever shown interest in one bitch (and that was after he was done!).  However - it seems that he gives off a smell that  is very interesting to other entire dogs and quite often he is hassled by them which in turn has made him growl at these dogs when they are all in close confines such as in the back of the truck going from drive to drive etc.  From this experience alone I would have to have a very good reason to castrate a dog in the future.

My spaniel is entire and four years old - he is the most adorable dog, not territorial at all, not interested in other dogs and when there is a bitch on heat at the yard, yes he will sniff her but only for a minute or so and then he off playing again!  He hasn't been used as a stud yet but fingers crossed there is someone interested in using him and I desperately want a Flyn Junior!!

They both live together as best mates, sharing a basket in the kennel at night.


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

bearhuggz - that is also really really helpful  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  - You see this is what i have been told by one person - neutering might not really affect the undesirable behviours - and that really all I can do is reinforce training - which is what am having to do with him as he appears to have forgotten his recall when he got the smell of an in season bitch, since that happened he has continued to have memory blank - except at home or int he garden when everything is perfect again.. am having to keep him on a lead or only let him off when we alone as a result 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  he had been very good on recall untill then  
	
	
		
		
	


	





My mum asked the dog chriopractor she uses and he told her Loki should def be castrated as that was the problem - is bit hard when your mum starts going on about it and i start to doubt my choices


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

Woolly - that is very interesting - thanks very much  
	
	
		
		
	


	




Interesting re: hunting drive - I wonder if he would continue to be a pain for sniffing things and following scents anyway then? but the Bitch in season bit is also very interesting - much apprciated.

Acolyte - Thanks for sharing that - sounds like the balls probably aren't the problem with Loki, if your experiences are anything to go by - people suggest castration for dealing with the problem, but maybe is not the answer


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## BBH (6 January 2009)

I had to have my bulldog puppy done as he would mount anything with a pulse. It got to the stage where he couldn't be in the same room as guests as he was all over them.

He has been far happier done and has calmed down into a fabulous social little dog. IME I would deffo have it done.


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

Ravenwood - interesting about him giving off a smell - I've noticed Loki is always very interested in recently castrated male dogs - must be for the same reason... Loki is not like your spaniel though - i swear he lives for finding a bitch on heat


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## woolly (6 January 2009)

Ahhh the thing is Haz would track for miles after he was castrated same as before for a prey scent but would merely hover and have a good sniff at a bitch scent nbut didn't feel the need to go and track it which was a huge difference....
Do feel free to ask any other questions...some dogs did find Haz a little more interesting smell wise when he was cut ...but with a 37inch at the shoulder Wolfie, a Jack Russell trying to mount him was of extreme entertainment value...Haz was really quite bemused and actually sat on one which again was embarrassing as he has a touch of colitis in the hot weather and left a glorious poo stripe on some poor owners dog!!!!


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## KarynK (6 January 2009)

I currently have an entire male and a castrated male cattle dog, both are rescues so who knows what effect their early lives have had but this is my experience.

Digger I had as a year old dog (the one with black patches in the signature) he was a companion to my crossbred spayed rescue bitch, who sadly is no longer with me.   It was very obvious from the start that he had had no training at all in his former home and once he found his feet he was being aggressive with other dogs.  It was obvious that the aggression was fear related so I took him to a very good Dog trainer, she worked in partnership with another woman who immediately said Get that Dog Castrated thats why hes aggressive.  I politely,  (mainly because there was an audience) told her where to go!  The decent trainer put me straight in the top class where the dogs and owners were at a more suitable level and after a session or two he was off lead and working like a pro!

Digger has never looked back and I can see no reason to castrate him as he is a happy well adjusted and largely obedient dog.

Blue I got as a companion to digger when he was 3, blue was a 6 year old at this point and castrated.  He has easily been the hardest dog I have ever had to work with, but he has a very dark past and I have had to work blind with him not knowing all the story.   I can quite easily say he would have been put down by now by most, but I am still making progress.

Apart from that they get on quite well but are not lovey dovey and enjoy another dog being their rather than being affectionate to each other.  Blue I gather has always been an only dog and with people that did not understand dog psychology!   This is a tough breed at the best of times and requires some reminding who the alpha is in the pack!   They do fight now and again, when competing for my attention, and they are VERY competitive dogs.  I do have to break up squabbles now and again and last night they had the contents of their water bowl to contend with as a reminder who is boss!.  

At the moment between them Digger is boss when it comes to food and Blue with Toys (he is the confiscator), but I do treat Digger as his superior and feed and greet him first as he is the entire and should be boss.   Although they fight amongst themselves they are really good with other dogs, unless a dog is really aggressive to them then the pack instinct kicks in.

I have no intention of Castrating Digger, I do suspect he has been used to breed from in the past but he is very manageable and I see no need.  

Hope that helps


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## Ravenwood (6 January 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Ravenwood - interesting about him giving off a smell - I've noticed Loki is always very interested in recently castrated male dogs - must be for the same reason... Loki is not like your spaniel though - i swear he lives for finding a bitch on heat  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

No, he was castrated 4 years ago, so not recently, but there are certain entire dogs who treat him like a bitch on heat now


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## kibob (6 January 2009)

Our last dog was entire his whole life.  We never really had a problem with him. He would ocassionally wander but never went far and grew out of this.  He never humped, wasn't agressive, mixed well with males and females.  whenever a bitch was in season he would carry his favourite pink pig teddy around with him, as if to charm the ladies 
	
	
		
		
	


	









Our current dog, the Ridgie in my avater, was castrated early last year aged 3.  I had kept him entire with the intention of using him as a stud.  However he became a bit of a nightmare tbh.  Would wander off regularly and was VERY aggressive.  Walking him became like walking a wart-hog, he snuffled and dribbled constantly 
	
	
		
		
	


	





My son was 2 years old at the time and my daughter 9 and I just felt that having a large sexually frustrated dog in the house with the kids was tempting fate.  Don't get me wrong he has never shown any aggression towards people but he was 8 stone of raging hormones!

He has chilled out loads since the operation.  Never wanders off and shows no interest in girlie smells.  He is less aggressive, but unfortunately still has these tendencies, although to be fair we are lucky that we have our own land where I can run him off lead so I haven't really confronted this problem in public and I think alot of his aggression now comes from me expecting a problem rather than him (if you see what I mean 
	
	
		
		
	


	




)

We also have a nine month old bitch now and she is starting to come in to season as we speak.  He's not showing much interest, just a wee sniff every now and again - he'd rather sleep


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

KarynK - thanks for your input - is really interesting where people have one of each and can compare them. Is looking like temprament is really the over riding factor in whether dogs are manageable when entire..


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

kibob - thanks - think this is just reinforcing that temprament of the dog is the main thing... Loki doesn't display any sexual behaviour at all - no humping etc.  But he did wander off on Saturday - whioch is what has worried me... maybe it will be a one off...  and LOL at the teddy


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## CAYLA (6 January 2009)

Yep....I have. had 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 a male lurcher for 16 years, who we lost shortly b4 I joined the forum 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 with his nads on, he was OH's when we met, he had a heart condition, and so high risk for castration, he was never used on any bitch of course!, but apart from the pittling at every lamp post and the horrible entire male doggy pish smell, and drop in weight when other bitches where in season, he was just as well behaved as the other neutered dogs.......however as u know im firm with my doglets.
I have never experienced this male attraction to neutered dogs either, even in our 3 million rescues 
	
	
		
		
	


	




, we have no aggression from the entire ones, towards the neutered ones.
And back in the day when neutering was far and few, my mam had many entire Gsd's, and had no problems in regard to behaviour...........suppose it varies greatly from dog/owner, I just prefer all mine neutered 
	
	
		
		
	


	




, I don't do it for behavioural reasons, just for reproductive/health issues 
	
	
		
		
	


	




I would say though, that if u are a sensible owner and have put the time in training your dog, and problems are arising that could be hormone based, castration can help to calm or eliminate those problems with good sucess.
We take alot of entire male dogs in with dominance issues, but mind u the owners are as much use as a chocolate fire guard, and should not be allowed to own a hamster let alone a dog


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## GinaB (6 January 2009)

We kept Windsor entire and he was a joy to keep but not to work 
	
	
		
		
	


	





He was always very well behaved, not into humping things and only ended up in fights as the other dog picked them, not him.

He was very headstrong though and a real stubborn git. I couldn't work him, wouldn't listen to me but was an angel for my uncle. In general 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 He always though he knew best. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





God, I miss that dog


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## Cop-Pop (6 January 2009)

My lab is entire.  We were going to get him done but we were approached about using him for stud.  We never used him for stud in the end but stil haven't had him done.  He can be a bit insistant with the ladies 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  The main problem we have with him is he's been attacked so much he's now learnt how to fight back 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 but he's never started a fight and never growled at another dog and since we've stopped walking him in the town we've stopped meeting aggressive dogs


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

Cala - fanks for input - as ever much appreciated - and v. useful.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





GinaB - thanks too - he was a lovely looking dog - not surprised you miss him x


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## sloulou (6 January 2009)

Zalacca - thanks too  
	
	
		
		
	


	





My problem is that I live in london during the week then we go to my parents house at the weekends in Suffolk - so in London it can be a bit of a pain because of the sheer number of unspayed staffy bitches (I do live in an area known for this). I avoid mainly though and walk on roads or in very quiet parks - then he gets big country walks at the weekend...  where the dogs we meet are much nicer (even the ones with balls on) and we meet less dogs in general. 

Anyway - am going to have to see how he goes with more training and monitor the situation I guess. Am hoping this is a small blip...


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## CorvusCorax (6 January 2009)

My dog (the first male GSD I have owned after a lifetime of bitches) is entire for a number of reasons, we are considering castration but will only do so in consultation with his breeder.

He doesn't hump, although he does show interest in his sister when she is in season so obviously we keep them seperate and walk them seperately at those times and they are never left alone together.

He is not great with other dogs, but neither are both of his sisters, however being so much smaller, they are easier to deal with.
I am currently tackling this issue (as mentioned in a post the other day) as apart from that he is a super dog and very biddable with people.


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## kirstyhen (6 January 2009)

Otto is entire, but only 7 months old. I don't intend on getting him castrated, as he has a lovely nature (atm!) with people and other dogs! He is a bit of a wild child as far as training is concerned but that isn't down to his balls!

His hormones have obviously just started to kick in as he was trying to hump my leg the other day, but a sharp NO! and he stops!

My Parents have 6!!! entire males! Only one is a problem, he has an enlarged prostate, and is a horny (and grumpy) devil! He has only recently become a problem as he is now getting on a bit and the other eldest dog began to challenge him a bit, so he has to be kept seperate. He has been used at stud, although so has his son without problem.The other 5 have their rank cemented, and although can be fairly distracted and humpy when there is a bitch in season locally, they are normally normal!

We had a lab X that was castrated fairly young, and it didn't change him in the slightest! And our old springer Midge was definately gay! He was a cracking dog, we where asked by his breeder to use him as a stud dog, and the bitch wasn't ready and bit him. He was then tried again a year or so later on a bitch that was definately "up for it" and he wasn't interested! 
We used to call him the rent boy, as all the other boys used to hump him!


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## piebaldsparkle (6 January 2009)

My 1st family dogs were entire (brothers)...........One got run over at two chasing deer.  The other was a soppy mutt, who was great with everyone, till he got to about 12 years old, then he would clear a 6ft fence if you took your eyes off him for a second when there was a bitch in season within about a 5 mile radius.  He was a nightmare and my parents were always having to go a pick him up!!!

Oz my current male dog was castrated as at 11 months (basically as soon as he was big enough)!!!


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## Lill (16 January 2009)

My OH has an entire male staffy.

He is brilliant with female dogs HATES male dogs... 

Pisses on EVERYTHING which is goddamn annoying when he comes to the yard with us  
	
	
		
		
	


	





And forever has his willy out which is just gross


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## missshell (16 January 2009)

My Golden Retriever is entire. we have never had a moments bother with him. 
When my in laws bring there castrated dog round they get on fine, although their dog mounts him  
	
	
		
		
	


	









I have no plans to get him castrated and would only do so on my vets advice if need be in the future.


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## Honeypots (17 January 2009)

My JRT was entire until he was 3. I never had a problem with him at all until he mated with my friends JRT. Once he had been mated he became obsessed with sex.
I hadn't inteded having him castrated but he was a changed dog...used to sit in the middle of the field and howl 
	
	
		
		
	


	




I had him done and apart from not pining for a female he's no different...  
	
	
		
		
	


	




I had one of his puppies...a male and he was castrated pretty early on as a safety measure. I'd had many enquiries about him being used as a stud dog and didn't want him 'disappearing'


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