# For those with dogs who pull



## SpringArising (8 June 2017)

What do you use for control?

Walks are starting to become a real PITA and not enjoyable at all. 

I've tried all the techniques -stopping and waiting, turning around in the other direction, telling him off, walking at the speed of light, walking at the pace of a tortoise and making him wait, you name it- he's unstoppable and everything falls on deaf ears as soon as he decides he just wants to go. He's a real Jekyll and Hyde to walk.

My neck/body is starting to ache and give me pain from the constant pulling and jerking. 

He's OK on the Halti but he's almost too shut down in it. He did have one of these: http://bit.ly/2si2jow but it literally snapped in use under his power :rolleyes3:	

Are the Julius K9 harnesses any good? I'm reluctant to walk him in a collar as I'm finding that his eyes are bloodshot after his walks.


----------



## pippixox (8 June 2017)

I use julius k9 harnesses. They don't stop pulling, but I think they are a lot more comfortable. My last dog also would choke himself on a collar. I sometimes did a combo- halti and harness on one halti training lead so I only used Halti  when needed


----------



## pippixox (8 June 2017)

I now have 2 rescue collies with no lead experience. The 2yo girl wants to pull. I have found she is better if she is aloud to lead slightly in front of me


----------



## {97702} (8 June 2017)

I am tremendously old fashioned so I would use a large link check chain....  as with any bit of kit, if they are used correctly they are effective without being harmful or injuring the dog in any way


----------



## paisley (8 June 2017)

I use a harness now, and a long lunge line, so mine has the freedom to trot on ahead (depending on where we are for safety sake, and I recall him just before he starts leaning in for a pull! 

Eventually the extra work he has to do tires him out enough that he settles down. This is does obviously need reasonable recall and depends if he can be reeled in if Sudden Onset Deafness (SOD!) occurs


----------



## MotherOfChickens (8 June 2017)

you can use a harness with a double ended lead (one clipped on back, one in centre of chest)-this works well on a friends pully dog, the chest line is basically there if she needs to remind him. she also has a bungee line (and I have them on bungee canicross lines when I am doing that) which takes the jerk out of sudden movements.


----------



## CorvusCorax (8 June 2017)

It sounds like you have tried 20 things and not given any time to any of them. And you've done the human thing of just saying 'oh sod it' and gone ahead anyway. Like a lot of us do.

I'm afraid I'm another old fashioned person who just used a slip line or check chain and puts a lot of time in tramping up and down/going nowhere in particular. Loose line = we go somewhere. Tight line = we go nowhere. The dog has to learn how to learn.

You can also do a bit of ball chucking or training before you go out to take a bit of the energy off. If you always go at the same time to the same place and do the same fun things when the dog is pulling, you are rewarding it whether you think so or not.

There is the overbearing sense that the dog 'needs' exercise so we chuck all the training in the bin if we're having an off day and it's back to square one. The dog can also be stimulated and made tired by training/having to think.

Personally I don't use any equipment that makes the dog more comfortable. If I am being caused pain by the dog's actions I am not going to make it easier/facilitate that. Bad me. 

My 35kg dog walks perfectly nicely on a loose line at my side on a dead check chain and is not traumatised in any way. If he at any stage lunges or pulls he stops and must wait for however long I decide. His decision.


----------



## MotherOfChickens (8 June 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			I'm afraid I'm another old fashioned person who just used a slip line or check chain and puts a lot of time in tramping up and down/going nowhere in particular. Loose line = we go somewhere. Tight line = we go nowhere. The dog has to learn how to learn.

You can also do a bit of ball chucking or training before you go out to take a bit of the energy off. If you always go at the same time to the same place and do the same fun things when the dog is pulling, you are rewarding it whether you think so or not.
		
Click to expand...

I agree -I am having to retrain mine as they were walking on a loose lead in harness but now we do canicross so I can't correct them for pulling in a harness (well, I dont think I can). So I am doing alot on collar and a slip lead (for the small headed, thick necked one) and its going well. 

Having had the setter that was a bit of a nightmare though, if people (ie my OH) couldnt/wouldnt train, I would rather the dog was a bit more confortable than knackering his larynx. consistency is the key buts its difficult sometimes!


----------



## CorvusCorax (8 June 2017)

I think the teaching of different commands also helps...I ring trained mine in the annoying German style lol so he does have a command to pull out in front and into the collar. In addition to a command to track, where he is 10m in front of me but must not pull, a formal/competition heel command and a social follow command which is what I use on walks.
I never walk him on the heeling side.

Having retrained a couple of steam trains, I keep whatever collar I am using quite high up the neck.


----------



## ponyparty (8 June 2017)

My boy can walk nicely on a normal collar and lead, but when I took him to Badminton last year he lost the plot and was lunging towards other dogs all over the place (only to sniff but... you know how many dogs there are at Badminton! He made me spill my champagne!). This quickly became tiresome, so I bought a figure-of-8 lead from a stall there - he wouldn't tolerate a normal Halti, tried to get it off immediately. The figure of 8 worked beautifully, stopped all the pulling straight away and he walked along meekly without any further trouble. 

I now use it as a slip lead and only use the figure of 8 if we're somewhere with a lot of stimuli. 

Deffo recommend a figure of 8 lead. Cheap, simple and versatile!


----------



## galaxy (8 June 2017)

Train is OFF LEAD first

Take him somewhere you can go straight off lead and go for a walk.  every now and again, recall and ask him to heal and show with a treat where you want him to be, walk and few steps, reward and release. Repeat and repeat until you can do longer distances.

I retained my older gap when he was 4 doing this way after doing all the techniques you tried and just getting frustrated.  Then I had a lightbulb moment that actually the lead has nothing to do with it, what you actually want is for the dog to walk next to you.  The lead is a safety devise only. My eldest now only reverts to pulling in highly exciting situations and only briefly, in these cases i change his slip lead into a figure 8 lead.When I got my younger dog as a pup I trained him this way as soon as he walked.  In fact I don't think he went on a lead walk until he was about 5/6months! He has never pulled because he actually understands what the word heal means.... walk next to me.


----------



## SpringArising (8 June 2017)

Lévrier;13567327 said:
			
		


			I am tremendously old fashioned so I would use a large link check chain....  as with any bit of kit, if they are used correctly they are effective without being harmful or injuring the dog in any way
		
Click to expand...

I'm not adverse to anything really. Do you find they are effective?



MotherOfChickens said:



			you can use a harness with a double ended lead (one clipped on back, one in centre of chest)-this works well on a friends pully dog, the chest line is basically there if she needs to remind him.
		
Click to expand...

This is sort of what I want really. I do the same thing but with his Halti if I use it - one lead on the Halti and one on his collar, and use the Halti when he doesn't listen to the collar.



CorvusCorax said:



			It sounds like you have tried 20 things and not given any time to any of them. And you've done the human thing of just saying 'oh sod it' and gone ahead anyway. Like a lot of us do
		
Click to expand...

Yes, unfortunately that is quite accurate! 



galaxy said:



			Train is OFF LEAD first. Take him somewhere you can go straight off lead and go for a walk.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion but that's not really an option - he can be dog aggressive so can't be let off/I don't have a garden.


----------



## Moobli (8 June 2017)

What breed is your dog?  Are you looking for advice on training him to walk on a loose lead or simply looking for equipment to make walks more enjoyable?

I prefer to train my dogs (from a young age) to walk on a loose lead although they don't spend an awful lot of time on leads in general, but it is certainly preferable to being dragged along on the occasions they do need to be leashed.

There are all kinds of no-pull harnesses now on the market but I don't have any experience of any so can't recommend - might be worth doing some research.  

I do have a Julius K9 for my dog and when we are doing road walking (around quiet country lanes) I use that with an extra long training lead and allow him to trot out in front of me.  He isn't the type of dog to immediately charge to the end of the lead and start pulling like a steam train though.

Personally I am not a fan of check chains due to the research done which shows they can cause irreversible damage to a dog's neck and throat.  

I would recommend you try one of the no-pull harnesses when walking but also spend some time teaching your dog to walk on a loose lead.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ


----------



## SpringArising (8 June 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			What breed is your dog?  Are you looking for advice on training him to walk on a loose lead or simply looking for equipment to make walks more enjoyable?

I prefer to train my dogs (from a young age) to walk on a loose lead although they don't spend an awful lot of time on leads in general, but it is certainly preferable to being dragged along on the occasions they do need to be leashed.

There are all kinds of no-pull harnesses now on the market but I don't have any experience of any so can't recommend - might be worth doing some research.  

I do have a Julius K9 for my dog and when we are doing road walking (around quiet country lanes) I use that with an extra long training lead and allow him to trot out in front of me.  He isn't the type of dog to immediately charge to the end of the lead and start pulling like a steam train though.

Personally I am not a fan of check chains due to the research done which shows they can cause irreversible damage to a dog's neck and throat.  

I would recommend you try one of the no-pull harnesses when walking but also spend some time teaching your dog to walk on a loose lead.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ

Click to expand...

He's a 3 y/o rescue Staffy. So unfortunately not a puppy, which would have made things a lot easier if I could have trained him from the get-go. 

I think I'm going to give one of the no-pull harnesses a go, was after some specific recommendations if poss from people who have tried and tested  

Like I said he's a real Jekyll and Hyde - some days he walks lovely and others he's just a 17kg manic ball of muscle.


----------



## TGM (8 June 2017)

SpringArising said:



			Thanks for the suggestion but that's not really an option - he can be dog aggressive so can't be let off/I don't have a garden.
		
Click to expand...

I think this may be a large part of the problem then - what do you do to allow him to burn off pent-up energy instead of having a off-lead run, or having a romp and play in the garden?


----------



## Moobli (8 June 2017)

OK this might help ...

http://mydoggie.co.uk/


----------



## galaxy (8 June 2017)

Thanks for the suggestion but that's not really an option - he can be dog aggressive so can't be let off/I don't have a garden.[/QUOTE]

ah, I wonder if that is actually a massive part of the issue....  My dogs would be horrendous if they never could go off lead and run. He must have so much pent up energy.

Obv letting him off lead is not the right thing to do.  Do you walk him on a harness and long line so he has some freedom?  Have you tried running with him to burn off some energy?  Or cycling with him?

Once you burnt off some energy, then I would put him on a long line and harness and try to teach heel again with the method I mentioned.


----------



## SpringArising (8 June 2017)

TGM said:



			I think this may be a large part of the problem then - what do you do to allow him to burn off pent-up energy instead of having a off-lead run, or having a romp and play in the garden?
		
Click to expand...

He gets four walks a day - three of those will be 15-20 mins, then his main walk will be anything from forty five mins to an hour and a half - sometimes more. He has a 65ft line which he goes on then, where he can hooley around/have a game of fetch/wind himself round my legs with stupid line as I silently curse him. 

Thanks WGSD, will check it out.


----------



## TGM (8 June 2017)

Can you try Galaxy's suggestion then when he is on the long line on his main walks?  Do you have any secure dog fields for hire near you that you could also use?


----------



## eatmyshorts (8 June 2017)

Echo others thoughts on training ... perhaps you can hire a tennis court or indoor school now & then to practise off-lead heel work? In terms of what to put on him, i personally like halti's & find my guys (who are sled dogs trained to pull) don't pull at all in them. I've heard a lot of good things about the figure of 8 & dogmatics too. Personally i wouldn't go with a Julius K9 harness for a puller, or any harness TBH - i tend to be of the mind that if your dog pulls, it'll just give him more to lean/pull into. A non-pull harness would be the only consideration, although i'd still go with the "control the head & the body will follow" type of thinking for a strong, powerful chested dog like a SBT.


----------



## blackcob (8 June 2017)

Going a bit off topic here but am I the only one who dislikes the Julius K9 style harnesses? I don't like that the 'saddle' area is so large and think it must impinge on shoulder movement, the front neck strap cuts straight across the trachea and I've seen more than one dog reverse out of them.


----------



## MotherOfChickens (8 June 2017)

blackcob said:



			Going a bit off topic here but am I the only one who dislikes the Julius K9 style harnesses? I don't like that the 'saddle' area is so large and think it must impinge on shoulder movement, the front neck strap cuts straight across the trachea and I've seen more than one dog reverse out of them.
		
Click to expand...

not convinced by them no-wouldnt take a sec for them to back out of them. lots of big dogs have them though.

for non canicrossing stuff I have perfect fit harnesses for both, Quarrie also has a non-stop half for tracking and we have a second skin and a non stop free motion for canicross. I tried various front entry types for general stuff but prefer the permit fit out of all the ones I've tried. so many of them impinge on shoulder movement. If the Ops dog has bust a ruff wear though, not sure they (perfect fit) would do?


----------



## Cinnamontoast (8 June 2017)

I think Galaxy has it. You want the dog walking by your side even without a lead on. Mine do, but because they can be excited, Zak can yank if he sees another dog, I need control, he's very aggressive with them plus my balance is awful, so it's slip lead made into figure of eight until we're in the field. I can have all three with no bother, little finger is enough to control one dog.

If yours is keen on balls/retrieving, you can get him focused on you and not other dogs. It's like a magic trick, having a ball or dummy in my hand, other dogs are ignored and I can let him rip to chase a ball. For extra focus, a rabbit skin covered ball is Zak's favourite ever toy, only ever allowed when on walks and then very briefly as a reward.


----------



## Moobli (8 June 2017)

blackcob said:



			Going a bit off topic here but am I the only one who dislikes the Julius K9 style harnesses? I don't like that the 'saddle' area is so large and think it must impinge on shoulder movement, the front neck strap cuts straight across the trachea and I've seen more than one dog reverse out of them.
		
Click to expand...

I was a bit dubious until I saw them in action on some working police dogs.  I also have a Ruffwear Webmaster harness which I also like but it is fiddly to get on and off quickly.  My dog is happy wearing a harness and doesn't try to back out, so no probs with the Julius K9.  Also the strap across the front of the Julius goes across my dog's chest, nowhere near his trachea?!  My concern with them was they might hinder shoulder movement, but the one I have doesn't appear to.  So, all in all, I am happy with mine so far (not had it long).


----------



## SpringArising (8 June 2017)

eatmyshorts said:



			Echo others thoughts on training ... perhaps you can hire a tennis court or indoor school now & then to practise off-lead heel work? In terms of what to put on him, i personally like halti's & find my guys (who are sled dogs trained to pull) don't pull at all in them. I've heard a lot of good things about the figure of 8 & dogmatics too. Personally i wouldn't go with a Julius K9 harness for a puller, or any harness TBH - i tend to be of the mind that if your dog pulls, it'll just give him more to lean/pull into. A non-pull harness would be the only consideration, although i'd still go with the "control the head & the body will follow" type of thinking for a strong, powerful chested dog like a SBT.
		
Click to expand...

See I thought that too and really agree that some harnesses do make it easier for them to pull, but the one he had made walking him SO much easier and he actually respected it and walked nicely. I think it might have been because it controlled the front end a bit more than the standard type harness fit you usually see. 

Thanks all for the suggestions so far.


----------



## Fragglerock (8 June 2017)

SpringArising said:



			He gets four walks a day - three of those will be 15-20 mins, then his main walk will be anything from forty five mins to an hour and a half - sometimes more. He has a 65ft line which he goes on then, where he can hooley around/have a game of fetch/wind himself round my legs with stupid line as I silently curse him. 

Thanks WGSD, will check it out.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, no help but made me laugh.  And you must be getting fit


----------



## alainax (8 June 2017)

I'm guessing the normal training methods are not working? I treat a pulling dog like a horse who pulls, don't give them anything to pull against and "half halt" till they realise walking nicely is a good option.


----------



## MotherOfChickens (8 June 2017)

I don't agree that pullers necessarily pull harder in a harness-that hasn't been my experience at all.  dogs don't know they are meant for pulling in until you teach them so. I had a rescue dog last year who pulled in a collar and not at all in a harness.my own dogs didn't pull in harness until I did canicross. if a dog can be taught to walk in a collar then the same principles apply to teaching a dog to walk in a harness and at least they arent being half throttled in the process. 

when you add reactivity/strong drive and/or learned behaviour into the mix and you don't have a blank canvas, it can make some dogs very difficult to remedially train-for us mere mortals at least.


----------



## MeltingSnowflake (8 June 2017)

Easy Walk harness worked really well with my GSD who would try to drag me up a tree after squirrels! Training definitely helped, but I still use the harness just in case


----------



## CorvusCorax (8 June 2017)

Everyone I know who uses a Julius K9 or similar (including myself) does so for drive exercises in bitework....as it leaves the head and neck totally free and they help dogs who block themselves out in a collar. Big differences in the types of harnesses available. Front leaders and side rings seem to be better for pullers.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (8 June 2017)

We have Rottweilers, which are a similar body shape to your Staffyx, OP, an ordinary collar and lead are no good because the collar just slides off if the dog steps back. We do use harnesses but also use figure of 8 leads, so the dogs have 2 leads at all times.


----------



## blackcob (8 June 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			Also the strap across the front of the Julius goes across my dog's chest, nowhere near his trachea?!
		
Click to expand...

It's possible that I've only seen badly fitted ones, this is almost the kind of thing I mean - as soon as there's tension on the lead the 'saddle' lifts, the front strap goes too high on the dog's neck and a strong puller starts honking. Maybe that happens when it's too large? 







My preference is for a Y-shaped front with a fitted neck collar and as little as possible over the shoulders but even then it's a case of trial and error, I've yet to find a perfect harness. One of mine is a bloody awkward shape as well with a pigeon chest to account for.


----------



## CorvusCorax (8 June 2017)

The ones I've seen have a lot more coverage and a bejaysus handle


----------



## planete (9 June 2017)

The Julius K9 does not fit some body shapes.  I sent back the one I had ordered for my very deep chested but narrow lurcher as it was literally cutting across his windpipe at rest.


----------



## Cahill (9 June 2017)

imo harness is an aid for pulling.
the best headcollar is a SWAG as it attaches from behind the head.
pulling is a training issue.

i have one that pulls for the first 5 mins of our walk,i put up with this because we on are a road with very little path/verge so we just hurry along till we get off road and i can work with him.it has become a habit.


----------



## eatmyshorts (9 June 2017)

blackcob said:



			Going a bit off topic here but am I the only one who dislikes the Julius K9 style harnesses? I don't like that the 'saddle' area is so large and think it must impinge on shoulder movement, the front neck strap cuts straight across the trachea and I've seen more than one dog reverse out of them.
		
Click to expand...

Looking at that pic, i can see what you mean. We use one on our GSD/Doberman but not as the main method of control - more just a visual for the "Do Not Pet" labels on the side. Although if he does react the handle on the top is quite a nice backup to his leash.


----------



## eatmyshorts (9 June 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I don't agree that pullers necessarily pull harder in a harness-that hasn't been my experience at all.  dogs don't know they are meant for pulling in until you teach them so. I had a rescue dog last year who pulled in a collar and not at all in a harness.my own dogs didn't pull in harness until I did canicross. if a dog can be taught to walk in a collar then the same principles apply to teaching a dog to walk in a harness and at least they arent being half throttled in the process.
		
Click to expand...

We might need to agree to disagree on this one ;-) I just think if you consider the design of, for example, a horses harness, it's to allow the animal to put maximum pull of it's body into it. Therefore if you have a dog who will use a harness against you (& of course, they're all different so a harness may work for some), it's probably going to give it more leverage, than if you are controlling just the head. Maybe in smaller dogs it'd be easier, but a staffie? From what i've seen out & about, the tendancy also seems to be to allow a harnessed dog to walk slightly in front (perhaps just because of the positioning of where the lead is attached) which i don't think helps the mindset of pullers.


----------



## MotherOfChickens (9 June 2017)

eatmyshorts said:



			We might need to agree to disagree on this one ;-) I just think if you consider the design of, for example, a horses harness, it's to allow the animal to put maximum pull of it's body into it. Therefore if you have a dog who will use a harness against you (& of course, they're all different so a harness may work for some), it's probably going to give it more leverage, than if you are controlling just the head. Maybe in smaller dogs it'd be easier, but a staffie? From what i've seen out & about, the tendancy also seems to be to allow a harnessed dog to walk slightly in front (perhaps just because of the positioning of where the lead is attached) which i don't think helps the mindset of pullers.
		
Click to expand...

yes, I see what you're saying but I did say 'not necessarily'   (the dog I spoke about was a beagle staffie cross). I dont like most headcollar arrangements tbh but I hate to see a dog throttling itself on a collar more than anything.


----------



## eatmyshorts (9 June 2017)

"Not necessarily" ... "maybe" .... i was speaking generally ... hey, maybe we don't disagree so much as lean in different directions?  I probably should have added that non-pull harnesses are different. Can i ask why you don't like headcollar type arrangements? I guess at least there are options out there so no excuse for dogs being throttled. Your thoughts on my last point?


----------



## MotherOfChickens (9 June 2017)

eatmyshorts said:



			"Not necessarily" ... "maybe" .... i was speaking generally ... hey, maybe we don't disagree so much as lean in different directions?  I probably should have added that non-pull harnesses are different. Can i ask why you don't like headcollar type arrangements? I guess at least there are options out there so no excuse for dogs being throttled. Your thoughts on my last point?
		
Click to expand...

lol-I dont think we are disagreeing majorly. I would rather use a harness than a headcollar, but I'd rather use a headcollar than a collar with a hardened puller. I've used a halti for a dog some 20 years ago and a dogmatic on the setter (which I binned rather than resell). I didnt like either-a dogs nose/muzzle/lips etc are very sensitive and I would personally rather have a dog pull in a harness a bit with a bungy lead if all other training methods failed, thats all.


----------



## eatmyshorts (9 June 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			lol-I dont think we are disagreeing majorly. I would rather use a harness than a headcollar, but I'd rather use a headcollar than a collar with a hardened puller. I've used a halti for a dog some 20 years ago and a dogmatic on the setter (which I binned rather than resell). I didnt like either-a dogs nose/muzzle/lips etc are very sensitive and I would personally rather have a dog pull in a harness a bit with a bungy lead if all other training methods failed, thats all.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying x I've had dogmatics in the past but didn't like them - they were leather & even with softening & shaping/moulding, around a wine bottle  i found them quite restrictive - never did try a fabric one, but i know many who swear by them. Horses for courses i guess


----------



## millmo (10 June 2017)

I know how you feel, I got a 2year old rescue staffie nearly two years ago and nothing I did stopped her pulling. She stopped me enjoying her and enjoying walks, I tried nearly everything even the K9 which claims to stop pulling in most dogs that didn't work. This was until I bought a walkeez harness, it was instant, no pulling (unless she sees her boyfriend coming), she is now a dream to walk. I clip the lead to just one side of it and bizarrely it only works on her if it is put on up side down, i.e. the clip is under her belly. Good luck


----------



## vallin (10 June 2017)

When we had Daisy we used the set up below, it's a harness and a SWAG headcollar. We also spent lots of time teaching her to heal off the lead with a line attached to either the collar or the harness and dragging on the ground, as soon as she gets a too far away we stand on the line and she has to come back and when she's walking nicely she gets lots of praise/treats. We had far more success teaching her to heal off lead than on lead! I would also echo what others have said and find somewhere he can let off some steam, Daisy would be horrendous if she never got to fully stretch her legs


----------



## Rupertthebear (12 June 2017)

There are so many variations of haltis/harnesses but they don't address the pulling problem. Maybe a lesson with a dog trainer, they will show YOU what to do. Chances are the dog will be walking to heel within 10 minutes, with a small correction you may have overlooked  it will boost your confidence in your training abilities and you wont need to rely on gadgets! I walk my 4 springers on slip leads, but I had to practice to get them walking off a little finger (I use haltis for older family members just incase a rabbit runs across their path!) - and a little bit of a kick up the bum.


----------



## SpringArising (12 June 2017)

Thanks guys  

I bought a harness at the weekend - bargain at £8 too. He walks lovely on it. 

And millmo - they are something else aren't they! So blinking strong.


----------



## eatmyshorts (12 June 2017)

Brilliant! That sounds like a result  x


----------



## lexiedhb (15 June 2017)

Best bit of advice I ever had for my Staffy X (was dog reactive etc, so not an off lead dog) was from here actually. Find a field. Hire one if needs be, and let him just RUN, and run and run and run. Makes training a shed load easier if your dog is not a huge ball of energy to begin with.
LL walk training is the most boring training in the history of the world. I used a harness with a front clip, and a double ended lead. Every time that lead went taut I stopped, waited for slack then off again - literally sometimes for 2 steps at a time- my god is it boring. I got nowhere fast. I actually took a good six months for it to be consistent. 
I now use a Julius K9 - I like them, they seem to fit the "squarer" dog well. I do however use their "belt" harness as he's a dog that gets hot quickly and I dont like all that saddle padding bit
https://julius-k9.co.uk/dog-harness/idc-belt-harness/

You can also get a Y attachment to stop them being able to back out if they have escape artist tendencies- which also comes with that all important front ring
https://julius-k9.co.uk/front-control-belt-with-ring-for-powerharness-size-0.html


----------



## Goldenstar (15 June 2017)

Lévrier;13567327 said:
			
		


			I am tremendously old fashioned so I would use a large link check chain....  as with any bit of kit, if they are used correctly they are effective without being harmful or injuring the dog in any way
		
Click to expand...

That's what I would do


----------

