# Is it wrong?!



## sez1 (12 May 2013)

Is it wrong to buy a horse as an investment? It's something I've been wanting to do for a while and before I get any criticism, I have had experience with horses from most levels of eventing, showjumping, dressage, different ages and different breeds
The type of horse I would be looking at would be a Connemara X 15-16hh under 6. Broken in just not been out much. I would own it for 2-3 years and do BSJA, BD and BE
I've had many inputs saying owning a horse for an investment is wrong and means you don't love the horse- only doing it for the money. Others have said its very easy to loose money on a horse through vet bills and other things. However I would insure against accidents. 
What are your thoughts on this: should I go ahead or is it wrong?


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## Boxers (12 May 2013)

Not sure that you would ever get your money back.

If you add up the true cost, purchase price, vets fees, livery, feed, shoes, bedding etc over the 2-3 years and then sell, I would like to bet that your selling price will be less than you have spent out.

If you buy for, say, £1000, then 2-3 yrs later sell for £5000, ,then you might be happy to say you made £4000, but this would not be a true profit.


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## xspiralx (12 May 2013)

Of course it's not wrong - lots of people buy horses as projects to bring on and sell, or with the expectation that they will need to sell in the future. 

However, I guess it depends on your definition of an investment. It's very unlikely that you will make profit from selling the horse if you factor in the cost of upkeep and any vets bills etc. And of course there is also the risk that a physical issue or something else could arise during the time you own the horse which would render the horse very difficult to sell, or limited in value.

However, if you'd be spending out on keeping a horse anyway, and selling for a 'profit' in the end would be a nice bonus, then go for it!


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## sez1 (12 May 2013)

I have added up costs and it would come to 15k for 3years inc purchase price and everything else (that's including BE) My daughter would also be competing in ONu18 in hope of getting onto the Junior team at weston park. I would expect, especially if she competed him in 2 international * events a year, he would go for 12k-18k as a 8 year old. This would be dependant on how he succeeded at eventing but I should expect him to do well at novice level an be ready to take his next rider up to intermediate and see a rider onto a Junior euros


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## AdorableAlice (12 May 2013)

Not at all.  Just me mindful the investment easily turns into negative equity when they injure themselves or turn out to be little wotsits.

I bought a nice looking but very green cob last year.  The plan is to produce it, get out to a couple shows and then sell as a ready made and safe heavy weight cob.  There has been a hitch though, I like her, she is becoming a very pleasant ride and I have a whim to send her to a big stallion to bred me a heavyweight hunter.  Who mentioned investments !


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## sez1 (12 May 2013)

Haha yeah. Although because me and my daughter are both quite tall (and she's still growing -5'7 at 13) that if I got a 15.2hh that doesn't take up much leg. She'd eventually find herself under horsed and want a new one. By this time shell be 16 and moving to a sixth form somewhere and maybe even take a new horse with her. Hopefully, the attached side of things shouldn't be a problem as she will have to concentrate on A levels.


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## Mavis007 (12 May 2013)

I always used to buy a recently backed 4yr old, keep until 7-8yrs by which time I would have competed it to newcomers as well a general all round education. My last one I bought for £1700 and sold for £6300 3yrs later. However I don't think I really made any money! However, to me it helped justify all the costs (especially to my husband!) to get a big amount of it back. And was very satisfying as well. This plan has now failed badly as I love my current horse so much there is no way I am parting with him!!!
I think the only way to make a proper profit is to do it over a much much shorter period eg 6mths ish- and be lucky!


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## xspiralx (12 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			I have added up costs and it would come to 15k for 3years inc purchase price and everything else (that's including BE) My daughter would also be competing in ONu18 in hope of getting onto the Junior team at weston park. I would expect, especially if she competed him in 2 international * events a year, he would go for 12k-18k as a 8 year old. This would be dependant on how he succeeded at eventing but I should expect him to do well at novice level an be ready to take his next rider up to intermediate and see a rider onto a Junior euros
		
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Just be mindful that the scenario outlined above would be an ideal situation and contains a lot of ifs and buts, it might not go to plan! - horse could well injure itself leading to expensive treatment and leaving it unable to compete at that level, it may not have the ability or attitude for the higher levels etc etc.

You could end up spending 20k+ for a horse that might actually only be worth 5k in 3 years. But that's the risk with all horses, as long as you don't expect a guaranteed return on your investment then there's no harm trying!


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## Gamebird (12 May 2013)

Not at all. I've done it many times. However my time-scale is a lot shorter than yours (3-4 months). I'd also say that picking a 5/6 that will be good enough for 2*/int/teams is the weak spot in your plans. It will either have enough runs and good results to be too expensive to be an investment or unproven and a gamble. I'm certainly not good enough to gauge that level of ability in the rough. The ones I thought might be reasonable topped out at BE100 and the one I did buy who will do 2* was a sheer fluke. I thought he'd be a BE90 horse.


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## MissTyc (12 May 2013)

I've done it over shorter time periods ... 

My friend bought one as an investment on the understanding she'd be running a horse anyway to sale - purchase = "profit" ... Simply enough but the mare then had surgery twice in 10 months, one a field injury and then a complication, and has been nothing but a liability ever since to the point the insurance companies won't touch her for accident/illness, the mare's confidence around other horses is ruined and she is now a very expensive "project" horse. The perfect plan doesn't always happen but if you're prepared to take the hit then it's nothing morally wrong about it


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## Gamebird (12 May 2013)

Mavis007 said:



			I always used to buy a recently backed 4yr old, keep until 7-8yrs by which time I would have competed it to newcomers as well a general all round education. My last one I bought for £1700 and sold for £6300 3yrs later. However I don't think I really made any money! However, to me it helped justify all the costs (especially to my husband!) to get a big amount of it back. And was very satisfying as well. This plan has now failed badly as I love my current horse so much there is no way I am parting with him!!!
I think the only way to make a proper profit is to do it over a much much shorter period eg 6mths ish- and be lucky!
		
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My business plan is to buy for £1k or less, spend ~4mths bringing on up to about 90cm SJ and XC, Nov dressage level and sell for £3-3.5k. My costs (I only do it in the summer so they can live out) are approx £500 so there is always some room for profit. I've looked at doing it longer term/producing to a higher level before selling and just see the profit disappearing unfortunately.

And yes, you need luck on your side too!


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## Lady Supreme (12 May 2013)

I have a colt who will be 7 weeks tomorrow. He has already cost me in excess of £3000 to get on the ground and I know I will never recoup that. If you are in a position to have a go at it, go for it. I'm sure our top stars didn't get there by being sentimental. Doesn't mean you won't love the horse whilst it's with you. I love my colt to bits but I want/would like him to compete eventually and I'm not the person who can get him there. Good luck in your venture


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## sez1 (12 May 2013)

What about a pony? That she could do pony trials on. I know that at that level (novice/1*) ponies go for loads if they've gone DC at pony trials and CCNP**. Especially ponies that have done europeans can go for up to 75k


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## jrp204 (12 May 2013)

Personally I think there are too many variables. Injury, lack of talent in 1 discipline, getting to its limit before you wanted it to, poor traveller, stress head at comps.... Need i go on?


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## sez1 (12 May 2013)

I guess... But ponies do sell for a lot. The majority of ponies competing in trials get sold onto younger riders for 5 figures and even the European ponies have a weak phase.


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## jrp204 (12 May 2013)

They do sell for alot but they are in the minority.
I suppose if you are prepared to potentially write off the investment there is nothing wrong in giving it go.


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## sez1 (12 May 2013)

Just had a look on horse quest. Quite a few good fei ponies going for a lot on there. There aren't any over 20k yet as they are all still competing. But by October there will be a lot more ponies in there. One that will go for over 50k I expect


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## jrp204 (12 May 2013)

Just  a thought, it may be your dream, but is it your daughters? You will be putting a lot of pressure on her, she is only young. She may hit 15/16 and decide boys are a better bet.


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## TarrSteps (12 May 2013)

'Ponies' don't go for a lot, a very small number of ponies go for a lot.  And keep in mind, what they are advertised for does not necessarily reflect the price they will go for. . .or not in the cases of ones that fail the vet, don't go for a less experienced rider etc. The reason top ponies and jr horses command a high price is that they are rare birds and even people who produce them professionally will expect to only have a few successes out of quite a large pool.

There is nothing 'morally' wrong with your plan at all and if you're going to have a horse for your daughter to produce anyway then no reason not to try to make it the best horse it can be.


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## TarrSteps (12 May 2013)

Re pressure, that is a valid point. If your end goal is to produce a five figure pony (rather than to just have a horse/pony for your daughter to compete and enjoy, then sell for whatever) then NOTHING can go wrong. She can't afford to struggle in one phase, fall off it or otherwise mar its record. It can't get hurt or develop a bad habit or otherwise diminish its value. Of course these things happen no matter how careful one is, but that's a lot of pressure on a kid. I've seen children crying because they got a stop and they know it's going on a pony's record.


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## sez1 (12 May 2013)

This is what my daughter wants to do. It was her idea all along and j can't stand parents who make their children ride. No, this is what she really wants to do and she has told me this time and time again


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## be positive (12 May 2013)

I think there is nothing wrong with buying to sell later, plenty of people do this even if they do not actually start out with this in mind, I have bought and sold many, some for a good profit other not so good but they all get treated the same while here.
Your plan is fine as long as you are realistic about making a loss if things do not go to plan, so much can go wrong that will not be covered by insurance, the horse may not be as talented as you first thought, it may not cope with all phases once more is expected of it, unsoundness issues may be paid for by insurance but LOU is hard to get if it ends up slightly "wrong", the list is endless and having all your eggs in one basket can add to the pressure for all involved.

Friends of mine bought a good horse for their keen daughter, she had the same ambitions as your daughter to get to Weston Park etc. despite every care and attention to detail, the horse was not the easiest ride, she just missed a place, the horse then had some slight soundness problems, became more challenging and she eventually gave up and he was sold at a loss, he was never bought as a financial investment, more of an investment in the child and her dreams, fortunately, as they lost thousands in the end. 
Don't let this put you off but you do need to see both sides.


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## TarrSteps (12 May 2013)

I really don't think anyone is doubting your or your daugherty I mi km


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## Hoof_Prints (12 May 2013)

I don't think it's wrong at all  and It's a great learning curve but it involves a lot of risks.

My 6 month project is now still with me almost a year on and I have absolutely clicked with him ! My sister has took on my pony so as time's gone on, he's become 'my horse' .

... so I plan to buy another 'investment' horse  although I will be buying a newly broken one to school, hack, bombproof and take to unaffiliated shows when ready. I aim to do this in 4 months-ish and sell as a 'potential' rather than proven BE/ BSJA horse- which obviously limits the sale price but I'm staying in my comfort zone for now  All my horses so far have been unschooled pain in the backsides so I've learnt a few things along the way !


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## TarrSteps (12 May 2013)

Crazy phone!!

I really don't think anyone is doubting your or your daughter's commitment to the cause! Just that if it were as easy as picking up an 'overlooked' horse or pony and producing it to Team level in 3 years then the ones that are in that group (most older than 8, it should be pointed out) would not be the price they are. 

But that doesn't mean you can't have fun trying.


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## Booboos (12 May 2013)

Morally there is nothing wrong with this as long as the horse is well looked after while it is in your care and you take some reasonable steps to find it a decent home when you want to sell it.

Financially it is completely foolhardy. If it was that easy to make money out of horses professional riders would be raking it in.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Do it, but do it for fun, for the experience, etc, just don't do it with the expectation of making a profit.


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## TableDancer (12 May 2013)

As everyone says, there is no moral problem at all woth your plan  However, n the basis of the information you give us it does sound a little naive in terms of your goals and "business plan"... To get a just broken pony or horse to CCI* in 2 years is do-able but very ambitious, especially when ridden by an inexperienced teenager. I assume your daughter already has BE Novice experience or similar? Otherwise, to expect her to teach a young pony or a horse, and for them to learn together and to achieve the level you say you are aiming at, with the aim of making money on the horse is - in my view - unfair on both child and jockey. You may do it, but to embark on the project with a view to making money puts far too much pressure on them, why not go into it with a view to having fun, learning a lot and hopefully achieving some competitive goals. Whether you make money on the horse or not should be secondary, unless you and your daughter are an experienced, professional set-up, in which case you would not be on here asking the question.

Sorry if I sound a little harsh, but as I have a great deal of involvement with the scene to which you are referring and see many ambitious parents (and kids) who are unrealistic about how these things go, I find it a bit frustrating. And your understanding about the prices FEI ponies go for are simplistic and, to a degree, out of date. 

If you and your daughter want to get involved with eventing either ponies or JRNs go ahead and do it, it is great fun and can be rewarding in so many ways, maybe even financial. But, for Christ's sake, don't try to do it to make money


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## Lolo (12 May 2013)

Is it worth trying to find a nice pony for your daughter to have fun with for the next few years, with the goal that at the end they'll have both learnt a lot and you can hopefully sell the pony on for enough to buy a nice 'next stage up'?

Al used to do the riding/selling thing when she was younger on a very low-key scale (she got given nutters and spent a few months making them more normal rather than anything grand!) and she loved it but it was draining. Everything you do is going to have to be right for the pony to be sellable, every blip matters and it does make life more stressful...


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## Pigeon (13 May 2013)

To be honest, the cost in affiliating would eat any profit you may make.

Unless you're talking top level horses (olympic standard) there's very little (if any) money to be made.


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## kerilli (13 May 2013)

Lots of sage advice here already, especially about pressure being put on kids.
Must say possibly the most revolting thing I've ever witnessed at BE was a mother cooing over a pony (ignoring her child) before xc and informing me proudly of the plan to sell him for a fortune (amount specified, yes it was 5 figures), concluding with "he's mummy's pension, aren't you?" Ugh. Of course the ensuing xc faults did not help... poor kid. 
Putting money into it with the aim of having a great time and possibly getting a profit at the end might be more realistic!


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## sez1 (13 May 2013)

Thank you for all the advice. I think the conclusion is (and correct me if I'm wrong) that we should get a pony, trailer and all the equipment. We will then start to do a few be90s and be100s and proceed to PTs/Ns at the beginning of 2014 and hopefully get invited to withington and brand hall. Continuing competing through 2014 and repeat this in 2015 which will be her last year in ponies. Depending on her results she may not even get invited to the final selection process, she will however be having regular training and lessons which should help. On the other hand she could get on the European team and win double gold in her first year of doing PT and even get double gold the year after. Unlikely I know but it could happen. Either way I think I've came to the conclusion that its unfair putting pressure onto her and the pony. I really want to make her happy but the prices of this project are high. 20-25k. Hopefully the pony will be worth 18-22k after doing trials for 2 years and maybe even being a reserve for a euro team will push value up a bit. So could get a small profit (5-10k) or could end up losing 4k. 
Please correct me if you disagree but this is the conclusion I've came from but I'm still willing to listen to any more advice you guys have?


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## jrp204 (13 May 2013)

At what level is your daughter competing at the moment?


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## sez1 (13 May 2013)

She rides a 143cm pony for someone. She doesn't compete but she works at 1* level at home as she isn't allowed to compete him


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## blackhor2e (13 May 2013)

Bonkers!! Is all I have to say, let your child enjoy herself..no pressure from parents.


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## sez1 (13 May 2013)

What do you mean, black horse?


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## TarrSteps (13 May 2013)

Re your worst case scenario being the loss of 4k. . .surely the worst case scenario is a HUGE expense and no profit at all? And that's assuming that nothing REALLY bad happens. . .


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## LEC (13 May 2013)

Gosh if only it was so easy to throw £££ at something and end up with the dream ticket to the Euros!

The only ones who I know buy their way onto the team buy serious, serious ponies and have serious training and back up. I think there are roughly 150 ponies out there doing PT out of those only 6 will get to the Euros. That is pretty small odds. Even then ponies are not going for the mega money of the past. The elite still will fetch amazing money but they are very few and far between.

I think you are focusing on completely the wrong things and because of that the whole thing could well end in disaster. Why not buy a nice schoolmaster for less money and go and have some serious and safe fun while educating your daughter? 

If this post is a wind up its a fun one and we all like to dream!


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## blackhor2e (13 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			What do you mean, black horse?
		
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I mean I think it's unrealistic, too much heavy expectations on young inexperienced shoulders.


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## jrp204 (13 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			Thank you for all the advice. I think the conclusion is (and correct me if I'm wrong) that we should get a pony, trailer and all the equipment. We will then start to do a few be90s and be100s and proceed to PTs/Ns at the beginning of 2014 and hopefully get invited to withington and brand hall. Continuing competing through 2014 and repeat this in 2015 which will be her last year in ponies. Depending on her results she may not even get invited to the final selection process, she will however be having regular training and lessons which should help. On the other hand she could get on the European team and win double gold in her first year of doing PT and even get double gold the year after. Unlikely I know but it could happen. Either way I think I've came to the conclusion that its unfair putting pressure onto her and the pony. I really want to make her happy but the prices of this project are high. 20-25k. Hopefully the pony will be worth 18-22k after doing trials for 2 years and maybe even being a reserve for a euro team will push value up a bit. So could get a small profit (5-10k) or could end up losing 4k. 
Please correct me if you disagree but this is the conclusion I've came from but I'm still willing to listen to any more advice you guys have?
		
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Ok, frankly I think you are taking any pleasure out of this for you and your daughter. You are aiming incredibly high, not that there is anything wrong with that but having a very capable daughter who has produced 2 youngsters I know how much work, expense, heartache and frustration goes alongside horse owning and competing. Your daughter may be riding at 2* at home but believe me, this will be nothing like riding a 2* competition, or even a Novice. Please, go and get your daughter a capable pony, get out there and have fun. If she goes up the levels, great but do it without pressure on her or the pony. 
I'm sorry but I am starting think you are trolling.


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## sez1 (13 May 2013)

It's not a wind up. I'm very hurt at what's being said!!


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## xspiralx (13 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			She rides a 143cm pony for someone. She doesn't compete but she works at 1* level at home as she isn't allowed to compete him
		
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Does she have any competition experience? Training at home is very different to competing at a level. Normally people will train one or two levels above what they're competing at.

I think it's somewhat naive to expect that your daughter will be able to produce a 20k pony in the space of three years, particularly if she doesn't really have much competition experience. It's not impossible but depends on everything going totally to plan. If it doesn't, pony could easily be worth 5k or less.

If it was easy to produce a 20k horse, everyone would be doing it!


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## Pigeon (13 May 2013)

How experienced is your daughter?


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## morrismob (13 May 2013)

OP, I have read the whole thread and agree with most and you have been given sound advice how ever I feel I have to say that I think your game plan is well off. You can buy a pony for 20/25k that is already doing its job well but your daughter lacks competition experience. I do not see how she can educate a young pony to the level you are looking at. Both my girls compete BE ( 20 yrs and 15 yrs) and have done for 3 years ( the elder one slightly longer). Its very hard and takes a lot of dedication with some tears and disappointments a long the way.

Both my girls have their dreams ( we all should have them) but they also have realistic goals for the season and their horses. Good luck


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## kerilli (13 May 2013)

jrp204 said:



			Your daughter may be riding at 2* at home but believe me, this will be nothing like riding a 2* competition, or even a Novice. Please, go and get your daughter a capable pony, get out there and have fun. If she goes up the levels, great but do it without pressure on her or the pony.
		
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This. x 1000. Honestly. I have seen SO many really competent riders over the years who did the craziest things in competition when under pressure. Of course some thrive on it but they are few and far between.
I think people are starting to get a bit rude, OP, because you've been given really sage advice from people who know what they are talking about in this specific niche and you seem to be virtually sticking your fingers in your ears going "Lalalalalala we're going to get on the Team" with a pony you haven't set eyes on yet and a daughter who hasn't evented yet...

I wish you all the luck in the world, don't get me wrong, but please aim to have fun etc and let the rest happen if it will!


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## measles (13 May 2013)

Very sound advice has been given already but I would say making money buying and producing horses is very difficult and most businesses, mine included, are subsidised by other income from livery, teaching or in my case a full time job away from horses.   You could get lucky but rather than pinning your hopes and focus on luck buy a nice horse or pony and enjoy the journey together with your daughter to wherever that takes you.   You can't replace these years so make them enjoyable and don't put too much pressure on your daughter.   As other have said, if it was that easy we'd all be millionaires


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## TarrSteps (13 May 2013)

I really don't think anyone is trying to be rude. There are people on this thread who have produced horses to the level you are aiming at, others who buy and sell professionally, others who train kids at the level your daughter wants to ride at. They - and the legions of other people who do similar - are not incompetent idiots who simply haven't figured out how to do it. They are giving you the benefit of their EXPERIENCE and the collective wisdom of the community. 

And surely none of this is news to you? I presume you have an experienced trainer on board, advising you. Unless of course that person has JUST the green pony to start you off and/or a very attractive guaranteed.training package. . . . . . .


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## TableDancer (13 May 2013)

Sez1 assuming you aren't winding us all up, my biggest advice to you is to stop thinking about the financials, other than whether you can afford to buy and run a pony. The most sensible comment you have made is regarding the training: if your daughter enrolls on the Pony Programme she will gain access to the wonderful Jonquil who will do her best to help and guide you.

As to whether you get invited to Withington and Brand next year, assuming your pony qualifies for the early trials, it is a bit of a lottery: this year has been incredibly open and I have been a little amazed at some of the combinations which have been invited; last year was much tighter, and clears at the early trials were a pre-requisite. LEC's estimate is a little out, there are approximately 80 ponies doing trials n any one year (more registered with the Pony Programme for training), then 50 get invited to Withington and 40 to Brand. The thing to bear in mind is getting invited is only half the battle - the poor pony and kid then have to face the task they are set. If you look at the Withington results this year, you will see that many of them weren't up to it  

The Pony Programme is tremendous fun and they learn loads and make friends for life, but if I review the people we know from our time in ponies, the people who have genuinely made a profit on their adventure would be two - plus one who finishes this year will, assuming her pony passes the vet when sold  Those who have made a massive loss? Countless...


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## Bink (13 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			However I would insure against accidents.
		
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Im afraid there's no such thing! My horse has cost me hundreds of euro in vet bills in the last 8 months and been off work for 4 of those months...all from an injury he sustained in the stable!

I really dont think the market is in a good condition at the moment, even the cost of registering a horse for BE.... or transport,entry fees, equipment costs, not to mention time,it really wont leave you with much of a profit!


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## Lolo (13 May 2013)

Just to add again, it is a huge step up to PC Open, let alone BE Novice. Especially if *you* haven't got much experience at that level. My sister made the step up to PC Opens on a schoolmistress (a quirky one, with an awful stop and a big attitude, but a schoolmistress nonetheless!) and found it difficult enough as no one else around us was sufficiently experienced/ available. 

The kids who do it well, seem to have parents/ someone around them for most of their training who has experience at at least Novice, if not more. I don't know if that's something that TD and co would agree with, but it's certainly what I've observed... 

I'd buy the nicest pony you can afford, and work hard at them having the most fun. The ponies round us who sell for the bigger prices (£10k or so) are the ones who will go round a BE100/ PC Int. with a smile and will forgive the child for every mistake. The super smart ones who need correct riding are much harder to sell it seems as it is a niche market... Not many children are keen or ready for the height of the fences at PTs.

ETA: the worst isn't losing money. The worst is losing the horse and having to start again. Just had to do this, very talented little mare who developed ovarian cysts and had to be PTS- she went from being a serious prospect to that in under 3 weeks. Nothing could have insured against that, and insurance would have been bog all use- as a 'prospect', her value wasn't high.


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## Leviticus (13 May 2013)

Lolo said:



			I'd buy the nicest pony you can afford, and work hard at them having the most fun. The ponies round us who sell for the bigger prices (£10k or so) are the ones who will go round a BE100/ PC Int. with a smile and will forgive the child for every mistake. The super smart ones who need correct riding are much harder to sell it seems as it is a niche market.
		
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My wife and I met on pony teams, we now - with the help of our 3 kids - produce horses, including ponies to the level you're discussing and higher. Lolo is 100% correct in what she says. The safe, point and shoot, but limited to jumping 1m - 1.1m I could sell over and over again, blank cheque style. The strictly speaking more talented ones, who could go round a ** or maybe even *** with the right riding are a whole lot harder to sell (and harder to come by!).

Producing any horse or pony isn't a case of purchase + time = profit. You cannot predict from seeing them as a 3 year old how they'll go under sadde, whether they'll have a nasty stop or be ditchy, or go and blow a tendon in the field. I have been lucky to profit from most of the horses I've sold, but certainly not all, and certainly not easily.

Also, whilst my kids love riding and competing now, I never make plans for the future with them. I never tell them they have to take x horse to y event and place z, to make sure we get enough points to sell them in the fall. I never tell them I'd like them to follow in our footsteps and do pony teams, or go to the Olympics, or get famous. My kids are allowed to determine their own destiny, they can decide if they don't feel like riding or showing because at te end of the day, for kids horses should be based on fun, not profit.


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## elliefiz (13 May 2013)

Surely this thread is a joke? The OP's daughter doesn't even compete? And she is talking about 2* within two years? Well they always say you should dream big! 

In case you are actually serious I do think you are showing your inexperience in your belief that selling a pony/ horse for a large sum is very simple. A very dear friend paid a considerable sum of money for unbroken 3 year old gelding with impeccable breeding. Said horse went to a very well known pro who competes internationally to be broken and competed. Horse by all accounts lived up to his potential and was generating a lot of interest. Horse was due to compete at lion d'angers as a 5 year old and would be offered for sale after this with everyone expecting a great result from horse. Unfortunately 2 months prior horse blows a tendon and that's the end of that. Que massive vet bills for stem cell treatment, a year off work and a horse that now no longer is suitable to event but is sound enough not to be considered a write off thus no loss of use claim. Owner is massively out of pocket and has a horse that really can't be sold for anything. It would be great if this story was a rare occurrence but unfortunately is probably a more realistic outcome than producing a horse from scratch with minimum outlay, everything going perfectly to plan and selling said horse for a large sum of money. You would prob be better off putting all your money on a roll of a dice in a casino than trying to produce a top level competition horse or pony.


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## Lolo (14 May 2013)

How, just as a by-the-by type thing, have you gone from being under 16 to being old enough to have a 12yo daughter in the past year? 

I'm just curious, sorry!


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## jrp204 (14 May 2013)

Lolo said:



			How, just as a by-the-by type thing, have you gone from being under 16 to being old enough to have a 12yo daughter in the past year? 

I'm just curious, sorry![/

Not sure we will get an answer, all's gone very quiet, probably doing entries for Hickstead, HOYS and Burghley. 

Click to expand...


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## flyingfeet (14 May 2013)

I've read this thread through - you'll be up against juniors with a string of ponies and unlimited resources. Chances of success are limited, to chances of you buying a pony good enough and that will keep doing it are limited. Your daughter has never competed and mast not like the reality. Pony or rider could be injured and throw the towel in.

Do it for fun and if pony appreciates you got lucky, otherwise may I recommend an equity isa!


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## SpottedCat (14 May 2013)

Brilliant Lolo! I was discussing this thread with friends and said I thought this was the child trying to convince the parents


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## kerilli (14 May 2013)

OP, if you are the daughter trying to convince your parents, then maybe you're being smart, in a roundabout way, asking on here...
If you are serious about this you need a GREAT instructor, not just a good one, someone interested in you, someone REALLY experienced in eventing. You need a seriously excellent pony which will not come cheap. And you really don't need any further pressure on to try to make a profit at the end of it. 
The trainer, and the size of the investment, luck in finding the right pony and it being tough, honest and talented, and your willingness to work, take criticism, not be a princess who thinks she's a fabulous rider already, will determine how far you get... not too many variables then!


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## sez1 (14 May 2013)

Ok. You figured me out. Yes I am only 13 and yes I'm tryin to convince my parents to get me a pony. Truth is- I'm becoming obsessed with pony eventing. Too much- to the state it's all I think about at school.
I have got a brilliant instructor and I do ride a 143cm pony. She said it would be a great experience. I have added up costs and compete in an event every 3 weeks. I would be planning to keep the pony for 2.5 years and the total costs would be 22k over this period of time. These prices are correct as I have has advice from instructors and people who compete in the sport themselves. 
Honestly, I'm desperate to make this happen and thought that if we could get a profit at the end then my parents would go ahead. 
I don't know what to do know though. At first people's advice was friendly then it started to become worse and eventually people thought it was a joke. 
I'm sorry but now that I've come out could you please help me. This is a dream. I may not get onto European teams or even go to withington and brand hall but I would have at least known that I've tried my hardest and had an experience of a lifetime. 
I just really need some help now. I'm sorry if I seemed transparent and I obviously have been as the majority of people have found out .
I've been honest now though and please give me some constructive advice. I'm so so sorry. Sorry :'(


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## Lolo (14 May 2013)

I think you're best advice would be to really work on what you've got. You've got a pony. Can you compete her? Or join a PC? I would 100% advise joining your local PC branch and working really hard at getting to areas and things at PC Novice (90cm, 95cm SJ), maybe Int. (1m, 1.05m SJ). Then say to them look, I'm at this level which means I could hold my own BE and try and do a few events on a ticket. There are PC classes, and BEu18 classes for BE100 level. 

Then you've built up your experience safely and steadily. Then if your pony feels ready, move on up to PC Opens/ BE Novices. 

But essentially, the only way to make a small fortune with horses is to start with a large one. I know it sucks- my sister is as dedicated and hard working as they come but our family cannot afford to buy horses or ponies, so she rode what she could find. None were ever tremendously inspiring but it's impressive what a desperate teenager will event to get their fix, as you know. She managed to get some experience at PC Opens on 2 ponies, one of whom was a total freak of nature and really should not have been able to jump what he did (14hh cob, knee high feathers, extra wide saddle he was so solid!) and the other was a little bit crazy.

Now, she's riding professionally. The years slogging with whatever she could have turned into positives- people know she's keen, determined and used to riding the unusual. So people ask her to ride for them, and she's managed to finally find a horse she has produced to be almost ready for Novices, and new horse arriving tomorrow who will hopefully be a bit special. She took the first horse on in her years of being able to do PTs, which was the final nail in the coffin for that dream. Right now, you're best to learn to ride as well as you possibly can and be the nicest, most polite person ever out competing and hunting, and at any outings.


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## be positive (14 May 2013)

Well done for being honest now and doing a fairly convincing job in your OP but I think you do need is to be realistic in your ambitions and maybe your  instructor could help you with this, if she is well connected she may be able to get you a pony to ride and compete on, even just low level PC competitions would get you started and show your parents how keen you are.
Joining PC would be a good way of making a start, there are often people with outgrown ponies that do not wish to sell but would love a rider to keep them going.
Your parents may be more willing to invest in a cheaper project pony, it may not take you where you want to go but could be another way of being seen and a stepping stone to greater things, if you did well they may then be happy to get more involved and spend more on the next one.


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## dieseldog (14 May 2013)

I have competed very low level baby horses and I have competed really good horses and in my experience you get just as much enjoyment out of doing the baby stuff as you do the big stuff.  It is all relative.

You don't have to jump PTs to have a good day.


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## kerilli (14 May 2013)

^^^ lots of excellent advice already, especially the PC stuff. IF you ride well enough and are lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time, you will get noticed. 
Eventing is horrifically expensive. there is no way around that. If your parents have plenty of disposable income and are happy to fund your fun, great. But, don't let pony eventing become an obsession. I hate to be a bore, but concentrate on your school work. Good qualifications are always something to rely on later in life.
Very very few kids are in the right situation with a pony good enough to do it. And, it's not essential either, if you want to become a good rider of horses when you are old enough. Plenty of top riders did not do pony eventing, for various reasons.


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## morrismob (14 May 2013)

Good on you for coming clean but also for having a dream ! I really agree with contacting your local PC as you don't have to*own a pony to join and there are a few people out there with ponies they don't want to sell or can't and the PC can help you. Have a look at the Pony Club uk website and find branches close to you. Have a look at their home pages there is always an ad or two for ponies needing riders.

Get a bit of experience under your belt and meet other kids your age with similar dreams. Work and learn hard and have some fun. Good luck and let us know how you get on and don't lose your dream


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## TarrSteps (14 May 2013)

So I'm going to be tactless and ask . . .do your parents have that kind of money to spend?  Or, more correctly, to lose?  I think your estimate, if you pursue the goals you are thinking about, are very low but there are clearly lots of families out there who CAN spend that kind of money on their children's hobbies.  

If your parents NEED to make it back, then don't lie to them about that possibility!  I presume they aren't going to drop 20k on your say so but even so, it's awful to tell people things you know aren't true just to get what you want.  

Which brings me to my next point . . .if you DO have the money to pursue this then you will probably meet a few people who will tell you things they know are not true to get what THEY want.  You need to have someone who has YOUR best interests at heart and will guide you accordingly.  This goes for your neck as well as your money, btw.

So why not get in touch with the people who run the Pony program.  Ask THEIR advice about what you need to do. Discuss lease options - no question the cheapest and most reliable way (which is not saying much, to be fair) to get a good ride outside of buying it.  Ask if your parents will at least speak to those sorts of people about your goals/plans/dreams to see if the might be able to make something work.

If you parents cannot afford it that sucks but that's life.  I would bet you many - most - of the people on here have been "you" at some point and the vast, vast majority have had to come to the cold realization that we don't always get what we want.  There are still many ways to ride and enjoy and even compete.


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## kirstie (14 May 2013)

I don't mean to be patronising but I love this thread, it totally reminds me of myself at 13, I was totally obsessed and came up with lots of different schemes to try and convince my parents to fund me, though it never worked.

OP, I was very similar to you, but my focus was on dressage. I tried many times to convince my parents to invest in me, they had the sense not too! Ride as much as you can, work as hard as you can at school and see what happens. The idea you have come up with is not realistic, as lovely as it would be if it worked. 

You sound like you have a lot of drive and determination and if you really want to do it one day you will.


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## sez1 (14 May 2013)

It's wiered because the high level stuff like burghley and badminton don't interest me (I say that, it does just not as much). I'm way more interested with the u25 side if things and swing pony riders, juniors and young riders going to europeans. I've emailed my local PC (blankney) but there are no horses for loan or in need of a rider. I know there are plenty of ponies out there but they just never seem to be in the right place at the right time. 
Not sure how much my mum earns but my dad is like 72k (sorry if its innapropriate to put on here but feel like its necessary for this thread)
And not sure how much my mum gets


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## morrismob (14 May 2013)

Have you spoken to your parents about where you want to go with your riding ?
Are you able to find your own pony either buy or loan obviously with your parents help and consent. 

At this stage it doesn't need to be a world beater but a genuine pc pony capable of doing a bit of everything. I am not sure how much you ride and who the pony you are riding belongs to ? Do either of your parents ride ?


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## sez1 (14 May 2013)

The pony I ride belongs to a local riding school. He's only ridden by a few people but definitely has potential. My parents don't ride although my mum used to up until she was 12. She too wanted a pony but not I the stage he wanted to compete. 
Does anyone have any ideas about what I should do next?


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## morrismob (14 May 2013)

Be honest with your parents tell them you really enjoy riding and would like to do more and perhaps either with your own pony or one you could find to loan. If your mum used to ride she may want to help you. Unless you speak to them about it you cannot move forward. Explain it calmly and ask how and if it can happen. Go from there and see where it goes.


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## pippixox (14 May 2013)

i'm sorry but I think you need to be realistic and go back a giant leap- if i'm correct you currently ride a pony at a riding school who has potential to do competing. but your jumping ahead to the idea of producing a top class 20k+ horse. sounds like to me you are letting your dream get a bit carried away. its great to have ambitions, but I also seriously doubt, unless they are loaded, you parents could fund all your plans.
from a realistic view I think you should look for a share or loan that you are allowed to compete, join a riding club ect. I hate to doubt your abilities, I don't know you, but perhaps really you are just desperate for a pony of your own to compete?  my parents certainly didn't get me my first horse as they thought they could get money from it, they did it because I loved riding and horses, and they did not have extra money to take me out to shows regularly.
why not ask advice about a more realistic plan, there are loads of people on here who can advise you. ultimately it will be about money, as sadly they cost a lot to keep


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## sez1 (14 May 2013)

I guess I'm scared though- scared they'll say no and that will be the end. My dream, just gone


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## morrismob (14 May 2013)

Don't ask and you'll never realise your dream !  perhaps start at the beginning  and not at the end with the european pony ! All you can do is bring the subject up with them. It won't get resolved overnight but we all start somewhere. For what its worth my parents said no but many years later I am doing it and loving all of it.


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## kerilli (14 May 2013)

I hate to say it, OP, but that is how life is for 99.9% of people. There are different dreams. dieseldog is right, you can get a lot of pleasure out of attaining different goals with ponies/horses. 
Pony eventing is a HUGE commitment/investment for anyone. Even if you did manage to get a pony who was good enough, would you mum and/or dad be happy to give up their weekends to drive you and the pony all over the country to events? It's a huge thing to ask. Do you have any siblings? Would they be happy to go along or are they likely to want support to do their chosen hobbies too?
We all had dreams and sometimes finances/situation/luck/whatever curtailed those dreams. Years ago I had an absolutely great horse, we were storming round Advanced courses, eating our only 3* CCI xc for breakfast, and I walked Burghley that autumn 100% convinced that we would be there the next year. Due to no fault of mine or hers, it did not happen. It was just very tough luck, which is what tends to happen with horses!
Now, 13 years on, I am even further from that dream and have pretty much accepted that it won't ever happen in spite of literally decades of trying to breed and/or produce a horse to that level. So, I have rewritten my dreams a little. 
You are aiming incredibly high... and really, very very few kids of your age are in the position to do pony eventing. Unless their parents are HUGELY steeped in Eventing, it's not easy... and even if they are, it's not guaranteed!


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## xspiralx (14 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			I guess I'm scared though- scared they'll say no and that will be the end. My dream, just gone
		
Click to expand...

Don't think like that. You probably need to revise your dream to a more realistic version. Life sadly is not like a Jilly Cooper novel.

But being realistic doesn't mean giving up.

As TS has said, most of us have probably been in your shoes at one point. Very few people are lucky enough to have parents who are able to support a serious competition career.

Will you get to do pony eventing? Well perhaps not if your parents can't or won't fund it. But keep working on your riding, keep saving and keep trying hard. Even if you don't get your dream of pony eventing, you'll get some great experience along the way and one day you'll be able to get your own horse to compete.


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## Baggybreeches (14 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			What about a pony? That she could do pony trials on. I know that at that level (novice/1*) ponies go for loads if they've gone DC at pony trials and CCNP**. Especially ponies that have done europeans can go for up to 75k
		
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I did a 14.2hh a couple of years ago, purchased for £1600, sold less than 9 months later for £5.5k, did a couple of intro and then jumped round first PN clear xc got her advertised straight away and had loads of interest ( I did drop my price considerably for the right home too, she was advertised at £8.5k and we had 6 people try her within a week). 
I would do another (if I was still 9 stone7lb!) but I think the market is a bit saturated now with overpriced average horses/ponies and too many idiots who think they are the next Pippa Funnell.

ETA the pony was originally bought for my step daughter but they just didn't get on, so I took over the pony, if I didn't struggle to be light I would still be zipping around on her now.


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## willtowin (14 May 2013)

You sound determined and that's definitely a start! It's so tough in this sport  - you need a lucky break  to make it work! I am a mum but I love eventing - so I don't mind giving up my weekends to chauffeur around etc. But if it were for a different sport - say car racing or whatever - I wouldn't give up all my time. And despite me loving horses and my family doing everything we can the dream can't be realised - you need an abundace of luck and cash to do that.  Even if you did get a pony - where would you keep it? Have you got a livery yard? A trainer? A lorry? - (you need to stay overnight at trials) - good venues nearby? It's tough. I'd start with a good PC pony. Not a world beater, but something to show you the ropes and take you to your first BEs on tickets and work from there. PM me - I know of one like this for loan but owner doesn't want it to go too far and he's a special one so needs the right home! Good luck though - you never know - chances are 1 in 10000 - but you could be that one!


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## dafthoss (14 May 2013)

Why not get a part time job and start saving for a pony of your own? It will show your parents that your dedicated and are putting some work in to getting a pony rather than just wanting them to invest with the vague hope of making a profit. I think you could increase the pony's value whilst you have it but I think you will struggle to make a profit once you factor in its keep as well and even then you are going to need lots of lessons with a good instructor along the way. But if you have a part time job that will cover some costs then your parents may be happy to help you with the rest of it. 

I think loads of people on here would have loved to do the same as you want to but sadly its not realistic for the vast majority. As others have said the PC stuff is brilliant and it gives you a bit longer to work up the levels as you have until your in your 20's. You could aim for pc champs and all sorts which would give you a brilliant experience of a big show without the massive costs of affiliated eventing.


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## TableDancer (14 May 2013)

Bless you sez1 for coming clean, it all makes a lot more sense now, and I'm so glad you aren't some pushy Mummy trying to make money out of their kid 

Look, it is a really tough sport to get started in but if you want it enough you will get there! However, you may have to be a bit patient and play a long game... My advice would be to try to get involved by helping out to start with, what area is the Blankney? Perhaps someone on here will know some eventing folks in the u18 ranks which you could go to events and help with, and start to learn the ropes. I know it isn't the same as doing it yourself but it's a start. When you are a little older, you will be able to do work experience at eventing yards, and work as a WP to further your knowledge and training. It will take longer but it is possible to get there. The very best of luck, keep pushing


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## Booboos (14 May 2013)

If you approach your parents with a completely unrealistic plan they are more likely to dismiss you. It's far better to be honest with yourself now and this will give you a better chance of convincing your parents.

If you have never competed before you need a first competition pony. Something that has been there, done that and got the t-shirt to teach you the ropes. An older pony would be perfectly fine and although you have the cost of purchase the good news is that good ponies keep their value and you should be able to re-sell in a few years.

Also do a proper business plan. Write down all the costs, e.g. livery, farrier, insurance, lessons, transport to shows, entry fees, etc. Take on a part-time job now and save money. It may only cover a tiny amount of costs but it will show your parents your commitment. Also plan practicalities, like how you will get to the stables, when you will find time to ride in the winter, etc.

Finally if your parents say they cannot afford a pony, be realistic. A lot of people had to wait until they were adults before they could afford a horse (me included) it's not the end of the world. Meanwhile ride as much as you can, offer to help people at your yard and get as much experience as possible.


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## hairycob (15 May 2013)

sez1

If your parents say no the chances are it's not a lack of desire on their part. My eldest son had international potential in another sport & we supported him all we could but the time needed to take him to competitions alone, which were all over the UK & would very soon have been all over the world etc was not compatable with earning the money to pay for it. To give you a clue of his potential he used to come up against someone who has since won Olympic gold & beat him half the time. Another kid he used to beat regularly competes for England. Most of the kids of his era have either given up or just compete at low level for fun. Both the kids who got on had very wealthy parents, my son didn't. It still hurts that he couldn't take things as far as he could but that is life & I confess I had a tiny bit of a tear when his sport was on in the Olympics this year out of sheer frustration at the unfairness of life. But you just have to pull yourself together, suck it up & make the most of what you can.

I also suspect your estimates are a bit light. Eg that total will probably buy you a suitable lorry & nothing else, not even 1 years tax, insurance & a tank of diesel, let alone a pony to put in it. Even if they have the money do they have the time? Presumably they have that inconvenient time bandit known as a job to earn the £. Do you have any brothers & sisters who also have a claim on their time (let alone need money spending on them)? If yes, if they spend that much on you is it fair for them to go without/spend all weekend trailing up & down the country watching you compete for a few minutes?


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## jrp204 (15 May 2013)

Sez, thankyou for coming clean.
There is nothing wrong in having dreams but part of growing up is realising which are achievable and which will stay dreams. Whilst I appreciate your passion in reality it is hugely expensive and extremely risky, there are far more horses/ponies that fail to make the grade than the ones that go on to make mega money. I'm afraid if my 13yr old presented me with your plan I would very quickly knock it on the head, a horse is a luxury and your parents will have other commitments such as a mortgage, feeding, clothing etc you and your siblings if you have any.
Work hard, take every opportunity to ride and compete, work hard and ultimately have fun. Life gets all too serious very quickly. Every 6 months write a list of goals, do make them realistic then cross them off when you achieve them even if it something silly. Good luck.


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## Baggybreeches (15 May 2013)

Having read the whole thread now I will respond again. OP some people are lucky and they work hard, some people just work hard! I don't want to crush your dreams but I was in a far more fortunate position than you are at your age and even with the ponies, the ability and the support network I didn't get anywhere other than Riding club champs! That's life and I fear that you are going to be so far behind the curve with competition experience it will be impossible to achieve this particular goal.


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## willtowin (15 May 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			That's life and I fear that you are going to be so far behind the curve with competition experience it will be impossible to achieve this particular goal.
		
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This - most of these kids have been riding since they were babies (literally - mine sat on a pony for the first time the day after she first arrived home from hospital!) and competing since around 4 years old. This sport is all about experience - look at the Olympic teams - they're mostly all middle aged. Obviously cash being a bigger factor than that though. Why don't you set lots of short terms goals of doing PC etc now, and your first few competitions. And set a longer term goal for maybe 5 years time to do something like PC open champs? They are a real hoot and there's a great atmosphere there. And do PM me re pony for loan - need your approx location as owner wants it close to home. Keep going though - and remember - if you never try you'll never know!


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## sez1 (15 May 2013)

Spoke to my friend who has competed ponies for years now. She was on the euro team 2011 and is still competing ponies today. Her old pony had been to withington, brand hall and weston park in the autumn. 
I asked her about valuing and she said a pony under 10 that had been to brand hall could reach up to 30,000


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## Llanali (15 May 2013)

^ I don't think the question is whether those ponies are likely to reach the money  it's whether you are likely to find and produced one of those ponies!

I think you have had some excellent advice. Good luck- keep trying, but do keep in mind that unfortunately life isnt always what we want no matter how hard we strive.


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## Lolo (15 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			Spoke to my friend who has competed ponies for years now. She was on the euro team 2011 and is still competing ponies today. Her old pony had been to withington, brand hall and weston park in the autumn. 
I asked her about valuing and she said a pony under 10 that had been to brand hall could reach up to 30,000
		
Click to expand...

Yes. But those ponies are few and far between, and a bit idealistic. As far as I can think, there's only one person who was on the team then and still doing ponies now and she's a bit of a rare one in how good she is and the level of support and backing she has from her parents/ relatives (I think...).

Are your parents at all horsey?


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## sez1 (15 May 2013)

What is she called?
And no my parents aren't horsey although my mum would love to own a horse and my auntie produces youngsters and competes at medium advanced BD


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## willtowin (15 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			I asked her about valuing and she said a pony under 10 that had been to brand hall could reach up to 30,000
		
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Again - this is only a few. There are always the odd one or two that could fetch loads. Most don't. And it is hugely difficult to get a pony there - even if you and the pony are experienced. I suggest maybe have a chat to a couple of the girls who have produced their own ponies to this level from scratch. Most have a professional set up (their own yard, school etc), a lorry, a great trainer... Most importantly they have a wealth of experience themselves, and experienced parents too. It is a huge deal of hard work. It is definitely advisable to get some experience first. It's really not a case of just getting the pony and trying really hard - the pony needs to be good and quite frankly, so do you. You can't expect a pony to understand what you're trying to teach it if you don't know yourself! There are SO many ponies out there that don't make it anywhere near that level. Aim to get some competition experience first. Lay the foundations right and don't rush it.  
Just a thought - could you ask your friend who does ponies to put you in touch with someone who has self-produced their mounts (if your friend didn't herself) - if she's gone to the Europeans she must be pretty well known on the circuit and would definitely have some friends who have done it. Have a chat with them - they'll give you a pretty accurate picture of how really, truly difficult it is. Or maybe drop TableDancer a PM? To my knowledge she is pretty experienced in the FEI pony scene - the most so out of all the HHOers. 
Any luck with the parents on a first pony...?


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## Baggybreeches (15 May 2013)

Sez you are not listening! It's a team effort you can't do it on your own if you don't have horsey parents then the only other way is to spend money and I think you would be very surprised how quickly you can get through £20k even without buying a pony/transport & paying livery. Enjoy your riding and focus on working hard


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## SpottedCat (15 May 2013)

And there's always the scenario where you win European gold, the pony is sold for megabucks subject to vet, and then it injures itself in the field and is worthless.....

You need to forget convincing your parents this is a great way to make money - it isn't. And if your father is on the kind of salary you mentioned, he'll be smart enough to know that. 

The problem with all the pony/junior/young rider stuff is that the window is so short in terms of the time you have to get the pony, get to know the pony, do the competitions you need to in order to qualify for the competitions that will in turn qualify you for the championships. Realistically, the people who produce ponies from scratch to that level in those time frames have a) very experienced parents or b) very rich parents, or c) both. And likely they've owned and ridden more experienced ponies first, so they know what they are aiming for. 

You've been given loads of great advice about how to get involved on this thread, but I fear you won't get anywhere with your parents if you keep trying to convince them they'll make money doing this - they likely know the exact opposite is true!


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## sez1 (15 May 2013)

Right well I think the plan from here is: 
1- speak to parents about getting a pony of my own and the business plan (as someone suggested) with all the prices on
2-look out for loans and sales of 14.2hh PC ponies that have had experience within the pony club at 90cm/1m level
3- sign up to PC and take part in rallies and take part in a few low key events
These are my aims for this year so far. Are these realistic enough?


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## willtowin (15 May 2013)

Sounds fine to me. Just remember that an older pony that has no potential to progress past its current level is, for you, a better option than a 4yo hot head with all the potential in the world for the same price  and remember to find a decent trainer! Maybe also a friend who is more experienced, keeps their horse near your livery yard, and could take you along to events? Have you found a good livery yard yet? That should be on your list!  and going to a couple of low key unaffiliated PC shows is definitely do-able too - it would be good to get some experience out competing - as well as lots of FUN - which is what it's all about! Don't get yourself too stressed about it because you're not good enough/at the same level as the PT kids. It's about having a fun experience


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## MissTyc (15 May 2013)

I did junior eventing in another country (many moons ago now!) and it was masses of fun, but also huge pressure, expenses. My parents were not horsey  but very supportive, financially and with their time, etc. The deal for me was that I had to keep my grades up at school - not easy when you're out travelling/competing every second Friday and needing to get to training, etc. With everything we threw at it, I was never good enough. My pony wasn't good enough ... and then I broke my knee and that was that. 

Now as an adult, I am enjoying unaffiliated competitions with the odd day ticket ride, and yes, I would like to affiliate and perhaps produce something amazing, but priorities have changed to much I can't believe how much time and emotional energy I ever put into it. 

I guess what I'm saying it, your PC idea seems more realistic. Competing is so much fun, but the pressure of the higher level is not suited to everyone and it's so worth getting as much experience as you can before throwing your expectations in the deep end (


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## sez1 (15 May 2013)

I have found 3, one which is just a paddock down the road which is good if There's no space at the livery yard. And then a livery 15mins away and another one nearer to school which is better quality. 
I'm still looking out for cheap good quality second hand trailer under 2k and good ponies under 4k too


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## Baggybreeches (15 May 2013)

*sighs*


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## sez1 (15 May 2013)

You don't agree, BB?


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## Baggybreeches (15 May 2013)

Perhaps you need to ask your parents first about whether they can actually commit to keeping a pony for you. You really need to start listening and taking advice on board or you are likely to end up with a whole heap of trouble. You appear to have a very simplistic grasp of costs and that's never a good thing with horses, I was once asked to send a spreadsheet of costs to a potential client and my reply was that horses are cells in a formula if you break it down to cost you will end up broken hearted and broke


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## willtowin (15 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			I have found 3, one which is just a paddock down the road which is good if There's no space at the livery yard. And then a livery 15mins away and another one nearer to school which is better quality. 
I'm still looking out for cheap good quality second hand trailer under 2k and good ponies under 4k too
		
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Just saying that if you plan to have a top FEI event pony - or even just a competition pony - you need a livery yard. As in, stables, and somewhere to ride it. And someone to look after it. There is no way that you could do that before and after school every day. It's a HUGE responsibility - and there aren't any mornings off because you're tired, or you have an exam, or you want to go on holiday. A trailer will be fine for now. But you will struggle to find a pony that has been round 1m PC ODEs for 4k. At the moment you need to look for a Steady Eddy, been there done that got the tshirt pony. You are definitely not looking for a just broken one. Really try and listen to the advice you're being given here.


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## sez1 (15 May 2013)

I have been through all costs and go quotes from insurance etc. there is someone available to look after it mornings and possibly the occasional evening. There is an arena an stables, good quality and floodlit. 
I've been looking around and found some very good ponies on the PC site


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## morrismob (15 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			I have been through all costs and go quotes from insurance etc. there is someone available to look after it mornings and possibly the occasional evening. There is an arena an stables, good quality and floodlit. 
I've been looking around and found some very good ponies on the PC site
		
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Great but have you asked your parents yet because you are going nowhere unless they agree. I suggest that you sit down and discuss it with them before going any further.


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## sez1 (15 May 2013)

Yes planning to tonight x


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## JandP (15 May 2013)

Good luck with your parents.  Remember pretty much everyone on here has been where you are now, and a lot of us are now adults/parents with financial responsibilities.

My father earned very good money when I was growing up, but you know he had a lot of other things to spend the money on - like houses and pensions and cars and my brother and sister!

I begged for years and years and years for my own pony.  My parents wouldn't even entertain the idea until I'd been a riding school helper for a year - giving up all my weekends and holidays shoveling **** just to get near a pony!  Finally, they bought me a pony!  He was 25 years old and cost £300 with all his tack.  I will tell you something - that pony was the best thing that ever happened to me.  He taught me absolutely everything, and at the age of 25 taught me how to jump BE Novice fences (schooling - not in competition, that is a totally different kettle of fish).

I had a friend who did the PT with a pony her parents bought for £15k (and this was 20 years ago).  Her parents had a lot of money and devoted every single second of their time towards competing and caring for the pony....she still didn't get on the team!

I reckon I had more fun though, with my scruffy little welshie who I could gallop around on bareback one day, and then go to a show and pick up a ton of rosettes the next day and then plonk back out in the field afterwards!

When you compete seriously it does take a lot of fun out of it, and believe me, at your age, you should be having fun.


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## sez1 (15 May 2013)

Yes I think I've realised that throughout this thread now. My aim it to get a good experience out of all this


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## willtowin (15 May 2013)

sez1 said:



			My aim it to get a good experience out of all this
		
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That's the attitude! Despite doing competitions most weekends my kids still found PC camp the highlight of their entire year - and it will teach you a lot too. Best of luck with your parents!


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