# Miracle collars (anti-windsucking)?



## floradora09 (26 October 2010)

Has anyone had any experience with these? Do they work? Called in to local saddler today and was told they sold two and both were returned so they developed their own anti windsucking collar. Any others to try? Thanks  xx


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## Laura1812 (26 October 2010)

Why do you want to stop the windsucking?


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## Laafet (26 October 2010)

IMO they are useless and they can cause more problems. We have had horses come on to the stud with them that bear massive scars on their heads from the straps, and the collars were fitted as recommended. They can also still crib in them if they are determined enough. We always take them off if a horse arrives with one on and return it with horse when they leave.


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## ozpoz (26 October 2010)

I wouldn't use one.(instrument of mental torture, imo!)
 Instead, I'd look at ways to improve the issue, such as more or even 24/7 turnout, diet,  possibility of gastric ulcers, and  just generally trying to work out what causes this response to stress in the first place!
 Then I might be forced to just live with it!


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## floradora09 (26 October 2010)

We want to have one in our tackroom to get out if he really needs it- as during the winter there is less grass and when there is less grass he just windsucks. Therefore he loses condition and a few weeks back he gave himself colic and made himself very uncomfortable. On the whole I'm fine with his windsucking, but think it would be useful to have one to use if we need it, rather than letting him give himself colic. He doesn't appear do it out of stress, he's a very laid back horse, just habit really.


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## Laura1812 (26 October 2010)

Actually it sounds to me like he may have some gastric issues going on if it starts to get worse when the grass drops off.

Does he get ad lib hay?

IMHO a cribbing collar will just make him more stressed and want to crib more. When horses crib they do not swallow air, so I would have said the colic is more likely to be down to diet and stress.

Can you leave him turned out more / get a vet to scope for ulcers?

A cribbing collar is just a nasty plaster for a problem.

Even though he doesnt appear stressed outwardly, he may just be a 'shut-down' horse and not exhibiting it (common in prey animals), which is worse in a way.


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## Balibee (26 October 2010)

ozpoz said:



			I wouldn't use one.(instrument of mental torture, imo!)
 Instead, I'd look at ways to improve the issue, such as more or even 24/7 turnout, diet,  possibility of gastric ulcers, and  just generally trying to work out what causes this response to stress in the first place!
 Then I might be forced to just live with it!
		
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Totally Agree with above.  They are awful things.


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## ThePony (26 October 2010)

I honestly doubt it is just a habit, particularly if it does it when there is less grass. I would get him on a high fibre, low starch diet and make sure he always has hay available. Consider getting the vet out to check him out for ulcers.


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## floradora09 (26 October 2010)

ozpoz said:



			I wouldn't use one.(instrument of mental torture, imo!)
 Instead, I'd look at ways to improve the issue, such as more or even 24/7 turnout, diet,  possibility of gastric ulcers, and  just generally trying to work out what causes this response to stress in the first place!
 Then I might be forced to just live with it!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry didn't see your post!

He's already turned out 24/7, for other reasons too (15yo so want to keep his joints moving). He mainly does it at feed times, or when there isn't much grass, so rather than working to find the grass he just windsucks instead (see above post about losing weight and colic!).

I guess if it becomes a big issue I could ask YO if I could make him a little pen on his own and just give him ad-lib beet/hay/chaff...

 xx


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## Laura1812 (26 October 2010)

floradora09 said:



			Sorry didn't see your post!

He's already turned out 24/7, for other reasons too (15yo so want to keep his joints moving). He mainly does it at feed times, or when there isn't much grass, so rather than working to find the grass he just windsucks instead (see above post about losing weight and colic!).
		
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Definitely suspect ulcers - is he insured?


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## floradora09 (26 October 2010)

Sorry more posts are appearing before I have a chance to reply lol!  Got vet out RE the colic and she said it was gassy colic caused by windsucking. He hasn't got ad-lib hay atm, but there is plenty of grass in the field (for now). If I get worried or his windsucking is becoming worse then I will talk to YO and see if I can get him moved into a field on his own so I can give him ad-lib fibre.

I'm a great believer in them living out 24/7, and looking at diet etc before going down the collar route, but was just asking to see which collars to try if I needed to in the winter if worst came to worst and he wouldn't graze.  xx


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## ThePony (26 October 2010)

In that case then I would def chuck the collar idea away and make sure he always has hay available.


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## Chestnuttymare (26 October 2010)

it's not a given that his colic was caused by cribbing. coud have been something else. i hate the collars, mine had one on once and never again, It is like an instrument of torture imo. To make it effective you have to put it on very tight, it must be so uncomfortable.
Mine cribs and has never had colic and holds her weight. I just let her got on with it. she has been checked for problems but vet says it is just habit.


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## soloequestrian (26 October 2010)

floradora09 said:



			Got vet out RE the colic and she said it was gassy colic caused by windsucking.
		
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I'd get another vet!!

Radiographic and endoscopic study of horses performing an oral based stereotypy
P. D. MCGREEVY, JILL D. RICHARDSON, CHRISTINE J. NICOL, J. G. LANE 
Equine Veterinary Journal
Volume 27, Issue 2, pages 9295, March 1995

'The findings reported show that the sequence of events during crib-biting/wind-sucking is not related to deglutition and that air is not swallowed to the stomach.'


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## mitters (26 October 2010)

Hi, i bought a miracle collar for my horse who windsucks after pressure from the YO and her friend to get him one.  I only used it a couple of times as they have to be done up ridiculously tight to actually work.  They do loosen when the horse puts his head down to graze/eat hay, and my horse didn't seem too bothered wearing it, but i would never use it again.

For various reasons I have tried everything to try and cure/improve his windsucking.  He has been turned out 24 hours a day during the summer, fed high fibre feeds, ad-lib hay when theres not much grass or he's in, toys in his stable, Settelex supplement and checked by two vets. 

Nothing appears to be wrong with him, so i have no idea why he does it and nothing seems to stop him.  But I'm not worrying about it too much now i know he doesn't have ulcers etc and i have done everything i can.  I will just keep an eye on him and hope the habit doesn't become worse or cause him problems!


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## Luci07 (26 October 2010)

Always gets a heated response and interesting to hear people stating firmly how you can "control" this. You can't because put simply, there is no definative evidence which says that cribbing/windsucking is caused by xxx. All you can do is try the other methods of managing it before a collar so yes, ramp up the forage (should really cut down the windsucking) try settlelex equivalent to see if it is acid (didn't work on mine), low sugar food. However, if your horse has this habit then I have seen 3 horses go down with colic who were cribbing so would not risk it. I ended up putting mine in a miracle collar but bought sheepskin covers for all of it so it wouldn't rub, he was also put in a field with electric fences so couldn't crib and then didn't need a collar. However, I am fully aware that all I did was manage the end result, I never go to the bottom of what was causing it and I did - literally - spend years trying different things. Interestingly enough, I found a large number of horses with his breeding had the same propensity to crib (4 at the last count). 

Cribbing is actually quite an emotive subject. Bring on the day the vets finally can get to the bottom of what causes it.


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## soloequestrian (26 October 2010)

Luci07 said:



			I have seen 3 horses go down with colic who were cribbing so would not risk it.
		
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It's much more likely that these horses had a predisposition to colic because of something wrong with them which caused discomfort, and the cribbing was a way of alleviating the pain.  There is no evidence that cribbing CAUSES colic, only that it appears to be associated with it.  Presumably in horses where cribbing can be reduced through good management, the actual effect of the management is to reduce the discomfort which therefore reduces the horses need to crib, and also reduces the chances of developing clinical colic.


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## loopylucifer (26 October 2010)

Another Anti collar vote from me. they cause more problems than they help IMO. As other have suggested would keep on hi fi diet out as much as. The best way to discribe cribbing to someone is like somking to humans, it has the same effect on the brain therefore you get the same effect when you try and stop them as you would from someone giving up smoking, and with some horses they get worse when the collars are off to make up for it.


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## floradora09 (26 October 2010)

Thankyou everyone for the replies, it's very interesting to hear everyone's opinion! He's 15 now, and I know pretty much his full history- he's definately cribbed since age 5, possibly earlier. I just want to do what's best for him, and I wondered if a collar would help stop weight loss and colic (or so I thought, however that's still up for debate!!). He's fine at the moment, very happy in a massive field with others, and for now there's quite a bit of grass. When grass goes in the winter though, if he seems to be cribbing more and more, I will talk to YO about either moving him onto more grass which might not be possible, or give him a section where I can give him ad-lib fibre.

 xxx


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## Emily91 (26 October 2010)

floradora09 said:



			On the whole I'm fine with his windsucking,
		
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IMHO windsucking is your horse showing you something is wrong. I'm personally not fine with it.

I gave some advice on this thread http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=402413

My advice was basically this:

" I had a Horse that windsucked and cribbed like crazy. A lot of research I found suggested it was not so much a vice as was previously thought but caused by gastric ulcers or acid reflux type issues. It is thought to be brought on by feeding high concentrate feed, not enough access to grazing and incresed stress (such as competion/lots of travelling).
Unfortunalty I cannot find the article I read at the time!! I will try and find them and post the links.
I'm not sure on the situation in which you keep your horse or how he is fed. But when we got my horse. we stopped feeding anything high in concentrates or containing mollasses or too much suger, and put him on Settlex from feedmark. This stuff is brilliant!! He got as much time out grazing as physically possible. and then to break the habit he had aquirred we opened his door when we fed him (as this is when he used to do it most) and put a door chaani across so he had nothing to get hold of. We also gave him a treat ball, which gave him something to think about other than cribbing when he finished eating. All these things combined stopped his cribbing completely within a few months. Now he only does it if something really stresses him out, and we know when he does now there is something wrong with him.
Hope this helps some!
It is deffinately something that can be stopped if the root of the problem is found."

I would never use a collar. To me they are torture. 

Emily


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## Pearlsasinger (26 October 2010)

I'm another who thinks that collars are instruments of torture.
No offence to the OP, but I do wish people, including vets, would realise that when horses do things that are out of the ordinary, they are trying to tell us something and that it is up to us to work out what the problem is, rather than trying to mask the symptoms.


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## toffeesmarty (26 October 2010)

My mare cribs for the 5 minutes after every feed. Even one polo will start her off. Outside of this she rarely cribs at all All her feed and hay are fed from the ground and I try to keep her as happy as possible. 

When I viewed her the anti-crib collar was on a nail in her stable. I was asked if I wanted it when I bought her.
The answer was no and will always be no.

If you have the time and have a cribber or windsucker can I ask you to get involved with this survey being undertaken by Liverpool University?
http://www.liv.ac.uk/equine/studiesandtrials/cribbing.htm


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## Natch (26 October 2010)

Its worth remembering that whilst stereotypies develop for a reason - i.e. unnatural management or gastric discomfort, it actually causes a change in neural pathways, and they can therefore persist for the rest of the horse's life even if the source of the problem is removed.

Oh, and another vote for manage it as best you can but don't prevent the behaviour, as this has been proven to increase stress levels.


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## vikkiandmonica (26 October 2010)

I would put him on limestone flour instead. Started my gelding on it last year, and he windsucked so much less when he was on it! We've run out at the minute, but are ordering some more soon, and already he seems to be doing in for longer periods after feed, in the field (never did this when fed the limestone flour), and has gotten a little girthy. This might just be a coincedience, but it really does make a difference to my gelding.


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## charlie76 (27 October 2010)

In defence of the original poster, I bought a mare that cribbed and was prone to colic, I bought her a miracle collar and she never colicked again after wearing it.( before hand she was colicking on such a regular basis that the vet gave me finadine and told me to treat her myself as long as the colic wasn't bad). I had her scoped by one of the top vets in the country at a cost of almost £1000 to see whether she had gastric ulcers or something sinister going on to cause the colic, she did not. She was out all day everyday, had a varied routine, fed ad lib hay, had a low starch diet and also was fed a supplement to try and combact the cribbing. She would still crib.
It isn't the ideal suitation and I made sure it was covered with sheepsking to prevent it rubbing however I  believe If she had not worn the colic she prob wouldn't be around.
Maybe there was a cause in the first instance as to why she started it but by the time I got her it was an ingrained habit.


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