# To anyone who knows anything about barefoot rehabbing to improve feet...



## floradora09 (5 August 2011)

So I've got a 16 year old Tb. His front feet have quite collapsed heels which have been causing us a few problems, and I have been trying to educate myself about hoof conformation, consequences of underrun heels and also how to improve them. My farrier is fantastic and he does a great job with less than great feet and a horse with a very low pain threshold!!  However, for the long term something does need to be done about his feet and I feel that he may benefit from removing all shoes at the end of october and have nov, dec, jan, feb barefoot. I have a massive list of questions and am left feeling very confused so I will spill all here and be very grateful to anyone who can answer any of them. Photos of his feet are here: (please note, he doesn't have raised heels on the shoes like some of the pics make it look, he has a rolled toe in front and that's it.) http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/floradora_2007/Winstons Feet/

I haven't brought this up with my farrier yet, but will do next time he's out.

1)Is it likely that I'll be able to improve his feet effectively at home under guidance? 
2)If my farrier is up for trying, would he be a good person to trim his feet, or is a barefoot trimmer better?
3)How do you know which barefoot trimmers to use, as what annoys me is that they all seem to have their own websites and ways of doing it, claiming theirs is the best trim, but a different style of trimming to others? Very confused on this one!
4)There is a lot about getting a heel-first landing. I think that at the moment he has a toe first landing (not sure though!), and I've read that a crucial part of the rehabbing process is to get heel first. How can this be done exactly? Is this where I may struggle doing it at home? Hoof boots? Or more to do with trimming?
5)What books on this subject would you suggest I read?
6)What IS the best way to help underrun heels?
7) Rehab places such a Rockley do a lot of controlled exercise on varied surfaces. Is this crucial for improving the foot? I can probably only hack out 1-2 times a week and ride on a surface 2-3 times a week in winter.

Just for the record, his diet consists of Alfa-Oil, Baileys performance balancer, biotin, cortaflex and grass!

Thank you so much to anyone who can help me!


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## Miss L Toe (5 August 2011)

Buy Feet First and digest it, tbh the feet don't seem too bad.
By going barefoot in the winter, do you also mean to ride and will he be stabled at night, either way you need to feed for hoof health, and to my mind you need to organise your program to fit in with is feet: when the shoes come off the walls will be weak due to nail hoes, and the frog will be underdeveloped.


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## Miss L Toe (5 August 2011)

If he has a toe first landing, I would be surprised, as this is indicative of some sort of pain, if you think about yourself walking along in bare feet, you will land pretty much heel down, if you had a problem with your feet, you might land toe first in order to relieve discomfort.
Get someone to walk the horse up and down before and after shoeing and discuss the gait with the farrier.


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## floradora09 (5 August 2011)

Thanks. He's out 24/7 most of the time (prone to mudfever so comes in sometimes) and I do mean to continue riding if possible, but am expecting some soreness to start with. What are the consequences of an underdeveloped frog? Sorry said I was trying to educate myself! Will watch his feet carefully when I'm with him. It's a bit confusing though because when he's meandering very slowly about or being lazy, he doesn't look as if his heels are landing first, but say, if he's on a mission to get somewhere he certainly does land heel first! Is it just a laziness thing related to not extending leg to the full?


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## Teamo (5 August 2011)

I agree that his feet look ok. Appearances can be deceiving, though, and if you're experiencing some soundness issues then barefoot may be worth a try. He will need regular exercise on various terrains... a decent amount of road work would be best. What type of surface does your arena have? Sand schools are good for gently wearing down feet.

What are your fields like in the winter? If they get muddy/hold water it may be an idea to bring him for a while daily (on a decent bed), as being wet 24/7 is not great for feet.

He will be footy on stoney ground for a while when fresh out of shoes, but I wouldn't expect any actual lameness/soreness when on forgiving surfaces. If he is, there might be some dietary issues that need addressing.

I have my horses' feet trimmed by a farrier, but it's entirely up to you. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to trim a foot... only what's best for the individual horse.

Good luck!


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## WoodfordFox (5 August 2011)

1)Is it likely that I'll be able to improve his feet effectively at home under guidance? 

With the right diet and management you should be able to improve his feet significantly, either to help himwear shoes or to continue with the barefoot. Ideally you need to grow a whool hoof mind, and that takes nearer to a year!

2)If my farrier is up for trying, would he be a good person to trim his feet, or is a barefoot trimmer better?

Ask your farrier. Mine suggested I try barefoot, and recommended people to talk to and websites to look at, but wasn't interested particularly in being part of it. From a busy farrier's point of view, they can earn a lot more from a set of shoes than from a barefoot trim... But I have to say, if your farrier is interested in barefoot, especially if he's done any CPD in this area then I'd say stick with him. At least you know how he's qualified... which leads onto the next question!

3)How do you know which barefoot trimmers to use, as what annoys me is that they all seem to have their own websites and ways of doing it, claiming theirs is the best trim, but a different style of trimming to others? Very confused on this one!

Yes, I agree. My trimmer was recommended to me anonymously via a forum! Still not certain she's the right person, but I've not a lot to compare with. She seems to do a fair job, and has taught me how to look after and trim my horses' feet between visits which is brilliant. I feel she lacks a bit of experience though, and she doesn't like to give straigh answers... but then I don't think there are many straight answers in barefoot.

4)There is a lot about getting a heel-first landing. I think that at the moment he has a toe first landing (not sure though!), and I've read that a crucial part of the rehabbing process is to get heel first. How can this be done exactly? Is this where I may struggle doing it at home? Hoof boots? Or more to do with trimming?

I thought toe first was normal, as that was all I'd ever seen! My boy's now heel first on all 4 feet. It just took time (and correct feeding and management!). Read Nic Barker's 'Feet First' to learn about the rear section of the foot and how it should function. Basically the cushioning structures tend to atrophy in a shod hoof, as the hoof doesn't flex to allow these structres to work. And as they atrophy, they become less effective and so the horse goes toe first. It takes take for these structures to re-develop, but once blood flow is restored, combined with correct exercise, they do respond and, hey presto, heel-first landing! Expect it to takes months though, rather than weeks, especially if your horse has very compromised feet, and if you're short of time to exercise (I was walking in hand every night to start with, then lunging, then the nights got dark and it all had to stop...)

5)What books on this subject would you suggest I read?

Nic Barker's Feet First. I don't follow it as the gospel, I don't feed like she does, but her book is brilliant for educating the horseowner about hoof function and physiology.

6)What IS the best way to help underrun heels?

Well, my horse had very underrun heels and contracted frogs. A year barefoot and he doesn't! It did take time for him to come back into full work, and a year on, he is still quite footy on stones. We've a way to go yet I think...

7) Rehab places such a Rockley do a lot of controlled exercise on varied surfaces. Is this crucial for improving the foot? I can probably only hack out 1-2 times a week and ride on a surface 2-3 times a week in winter.

Yes, I think it is important. But you can only do what you can do, and the process simply will take longer if you can't work the foot. Little and often is best, especially in the early stages; 10 mins walking in hand on a road, 10 mins lunging on grass, it was about 3 months before I even got onboard (BUT I wasn't able to use boots for various reasons...)

Just for the record, his diet consists of Alfa-Oil, Baileys performance balancer, biotin, cortaflex and grass!

Lose the Alfa Oil. Some (but not all) schools of barefoot thought have Alfalfa on their banned list, as it's a lucerne and therefore not natural for the horse to eat. It's also mollassed, big no no!

Check the label for the Baileys, if it contains molasses or other sugars, I'd cut it out. Likewise anything with 'Oatfeed' or 'Wheatfeed' - sounds nutritious, but it's the sweepings off the factory floor and likely to be very high in pesticides. Check if the Cortaflex and biotin has these in as fillers too, and change your brand if they do. Limit the grass, low sugar is vital, you need to treat your horse like he has laminitis, so ad lib hay is great, but keep grazing to a minimum (though some horses are more sugar-sensitive than others).

I feed Thunderbrook Base Mix (basically a low-sugar, low starch balancer, very favoured by barefooters) with organic bran and germinating oats. I don't feed biotin anymore, my boy's feet are growing like the clappers now, and in theory the Thunderbrook should contain all he needs. I do give him a egg yolk a couple of times a week - very rich, bio-available source of B vits ie biotin! I also use a website called www.naturalhorsesupplies.co.uk who do tons of supplements with NO FILLERS! I buy a combination of MSM, Glucosamine and Botswellia for joint comfort.

Hope that helps....


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## Amymay (5 August 2011)

OP contact Cptrayes on here - she's minefield of info on barefoot.


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## WoodfordFox (5 August 2011)

PS - I agree, his feet look pretty good, your farrier is clearly doing a good job. But giving his feet a few month's rest may help your farrier continue with his job! Historially lots of shod horses - hunters, eventers etc - get their shoes taken off at the end of the season for a few months, so their feet recover ready for the next season's shoeing!


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## PooJay (5 August 2011)

I had tb with awfully underrun heels transitioned to barefoot as a last resort (she was awful and very rarely sound in shoes) V difficult. Unfortunately i discovered the reason far too late but what seemed to make most difference was her diet.

At the risk of advertising  i used a company called Trinity Consultants - Roger Hatch (still do for new pone, he's brilliant). I used a product called tenderfoot which i fed just before and during the first month or so of the transition and it hardened her feet up significantly and made life a lot more comfortable for her. Might not be right for your pone but it's possibly worth a chat with Roger if you can get him.


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## WoodfordFox (5 August 2011)

Yes, don't know Roger, but do change diet before you take shoes off if possible, it will help.


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## floradora09 (5 August 2011)

Grr typed a massive reply and stupid computer lost it all! Shorter version now. 

Looked at his landings just now, when he meanders around lazily and doesn't fully extend his leg he lands toe first, when he's walked up properly or is on a mission he lands heel first. Does this mean he's just lazy and I don't need to worry about his landings?

Arena does have some sand in, and fields do get wet in winter but he has to come in anyway sometimes for mudfever so can monitor this too.

Thank you so so much WoodfordFox!  I'd love to use my own farrier if possible, and he actually works for a 'boss' in a group of farriers so I think his pay comes from the boss, so hopefully his judgement about going barefoot isn't too tinted by money. I have great faith in him and would really like to continue to use him if possible, so will def talk to him next time he's out and see what he thinks. If he's up for it then I will probably stick with him as he should understand what I'm trying to achieve so should be able to trim to help. Will look into that book! It's good to know that it doesn't really matter if I can't get him exercised as much as possible, because I really struggle for time and daylight in the winter months. Will look into diet too, and change the Alfa maybe if shoes come off, but other than that I think the rest is fine. 

Cptrayes replied to a thread about competing the transitioning barefooter on comp riders so may well send her a PM as she does seem to know a lot.

Finally, I hate to sound like I'm going back on myself, but most of you have said that his feet don't actually look that bad. Do you think he actually needs to/would significantly benefit the shape of them (mainly the caudal structure/heel) by going barefoot? I understand that it will help with the nail hole problems anyway but the main reason for doing it is to improve his heel a bit, but do you not think there is much in the way of a better heel to be gained?


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## Brownmare (5 August 2011)

I'm just in the process of taking my tb barefoot and she had hooves very similar to yours. I think by the looks of it your farrier is doing a fantastic job as did mine but the changes in my girl's hooves are incredible in the space of 5 months. Her heel is lifting and widening, all the flare is disappearing and the walls are getting thicker so yes there are improvements to be made in your horses hooves!

I would say diet is THE most important part - I actually ended up getting my haylage analysed for mineral content and getting a supplement made up to balance it (forageplus) and most of the above changes are down to that alone (She has been on box rest so I can say confidently that exercise had no part in it  ) If you do nothing else then look to the diet and as a minimum add some magnesium oxide to his feed.

I ended up going with a trimmer because my farrier, fab though he is, seems to be a compulsive frog & sole trimmer and as my girl's soles were thin enough to flex on thumb pressure she needs every millimeter!! If you would like to see the way my trimmer has trimmed my girl or you would like his number please pm me. He also fitted her up with boots - he doesn't sell them but carries a few sizes and makes to try on.

The other big change in her feet came from exercise - as soon as I started walking out inhand the angle of her front hooves started to grow in much steeper - noticable after only 3 weeks! So I would say exercise is crucial but as I was only doing about 15 min walking in hand I think that tells you it doesn't have to be alot of exercise 

Good luck and welcome to the world of hoof obsession


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## Fauvea (5 August 2011)

floradora09 said:



			1)Is it likely that I'll be able to improve his feet effectively at home under guidance?
		
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Can't tell but at the very least you'll learn a good deal about hooves. 
In your pictures, it's missing a shot of the underneath to see how the frog is doing. Even then, it's difficult to see anything with the shoe on. There will possibly be some powdery white dead sole in the heels that can be removed and thus help lower the heels. The heels should never be lowered more than to the level of the live sole plan.



floradora09 said:



			2)If my farrier is up for trying, would he be a good person to trim his feet, or is a barefoot trimmer better?
		
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It depends on your farrier. Does he routinely trim frog and sole? You don't want to trim the sole in a barefoot horse and only the thrushy bits in the frog. Can he put a 45 degrees bevel on the wall? Overall, is he educated about a barefoot trim or is he going to do a pasture trim?



floradora09 said:



			3)How do you know which barefoot trimmers to use, as what annoys me is that they all seem to have their own websites and ways of doing it, claiming theirs is the best trim, but a different style of trimming to others? Very confused on this one!
		
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You want to stay away from a Strasser type trim (trimming for a certain angle, length...) as those will likely make the horse sore. Personnally, Pete Ramey has been recommended to me and the good thing is that he's got a lot of free articles online (and not much is free those days): http://www.hoofrehab.com/hoof%20articles%20by%20Pete%20Ramey.htm



floradora09 said:



			4)There is a lot about getting a heel-first landing. I think that at the moment he has a toe first landing (not sure though!), and I've read that a crucial part of the rehabbing process is to get heel first. How can this be done exactly? Is this where I may struggle doing it at home? Hoof boots? Or more to do with trimming?
		
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Hoof boots with pads, treat for thrush if you see any sign of deep central sulcus or foul smell, good barefoot trim (no systematic trimming/thinning of frog and sole). Toe first landing is what leads to navicular.



floradora09 said:



			6)What IS the best way to help underrun heels?
		
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I have read that it is to go barefoot because it will help the heels develop and become stronger. But it is a long way to go and I believe one of the most difficult things to correct. You want to maintain the bevel (also called mustang roll) very fresh or the tip of the toe will start pulling the wall away, leading to laminar separation/dishing in the wall. You also want to keep the heels shorts and relieve the wall at the quarters (only if the hoof is "telling" you to do so by making thinner wall a the quarters and/or having the sole lower at that place). But overall it all comes to the same thing, you have to learn to "read" the hoof and understand the constraints applied to it.



floradora09 said:



			7) Rehab places such a Rockley do a lot of controlled exercise on varied surfaces. Is this crucial for improving the foot? I can probably only hack out 1-2 times a week and ride on a surface 2-3 times a week in winter.
		
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I have heard that to put pea gravel where the horse eats in the pasture will help make the feet stronger. Actually, Xenophon, in his book on Horsemanship (written around 350BC), says to put large stones by the manger to make the colt's feet stronger. The Ancient Greeks did not shoe their horses.


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## Miss L Toe (5 August 2011)

amymay said:



			OP contact Cptrayes on here - she's minefield of info on barefoot.
		
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:lol: I 'm not sure if Cprtayes will be too happy about that, certainly a mine of information in a minefield of dis-information


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## tallyho! (5 August 2011)

I think you will do well barefoot, all I can see is contracted heels and a weak frog which will strengthen in no time.

I did the same as what you are thinking, took shoes off Aug and just let him have a long holiday thru' winter.

Started walking out, longreining from about January and we started dressage again this spring, jumping, hacking on everything, and generally having a laugh galloping about in all these cut fields!!! 

Where are you? Maybe someone can recommend a local farrier/trimmer.... 

Whatever you decide, diet will sort of consume your life and you'll become some sort of hoof geek but be happy - your horse will be  and if not, well, thats what boots are for. We used boots for a good couple of months.


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## RolyPolyPony (5 August 2011)

I realtively new to the barefoot world so cant offer too much advice.  I started using my trimmer as the other liveries on the yard i was at, at the time used her.  she is fantastic!  I'd just make sure you find a AANHCP certified trimmer.  i'm sure if you google it or something you should be able to find one


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## floradora09 (6 August 2011)

Brownmare- Oh no sounds like I might have something new to obsess over this winter! Probably not the best thing when I should be revising over for my mocks...  But that's interesting about trimming the frog and sole- another thing I hadn't considered. He seems to trim them yes, but to my ignorant eyes it makes it look much better and tidier afterwards? I don't *think* his sole is particularly thin, but will go and have a prod and a poke later.  

Fauvea- Thank you so much for that!  I will try to add some pics of his sole later and show how his heels are. Going to sound silly but do his heels actually need lowering? I thought they were so non existent and underrun they needed to be brought back and up? Frog and sole is trimmed by him, but that's when he's preparing/tidying up for putting shoes on, so I don't know what he'd do if I brought up about leaving the sole. Numpty question but why should the frog and sole be left not trimmed? What's a bevel/mustang roll? And very interesting about the greeks, they obviously were onto something all that time ago!

tallyho!- It's great to hear a happy success story! I'd really like to keep him in work, but we'll have to see- hopefully his feet will benefit anyway. I'm south of oxfordshire, can take a number if you've got one but for now just looking at all the options and would ideally like to keep my farrier.


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## tallyho! (6 August 2011)

Well floradora, no reason you can't work him, unfortunately mine had other issues like navi so some time off was his apple a day if you like 

I would say boot in the first few weeks. Boots are good things.

have you had a look at rockley farm's blogspot yet? You will find some interesting reading there 

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/


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## Fauvea (6 August 2011)

floradora09 said:



			Fauvea- Thank you so much for that! 

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You're welcome , I love to talk and think about hooves.



floradora09 said:



			Going to sound silly but do his heels actually need lowering? I thought they were so non existent and underrun they needed to be brought back and up?
		
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Doesn't sound silly at all. An underrun heel is a weak heel that is too long so it is growing forward instead of growing straight.

The blue line shows how long his heel is (the red line shows the angle he is trying to grow from the coronet, the excess wall is flare):






This photo shows a stronger and shorter heel and no dishing in the wall:








floradora09 said:



			Numpty question but why should the frog and sole be left not trimmed?
		
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The sole is what protects the coffin bone from the ground, you want it to get as thick as possible so the horse has the biggest amount of protection. Also, if you trim the sole, you will not achieve solar concavity.
This photo of a wild horse hooof illustrates solar concavity (and natural bevel/mustang roll):





Another reason is that the level of the live sole changes with time and it "tells" you how much you can trim of the wall and heels without making the horse sore. If the horse wants less heel, in the seat of corn the sole will become powdery. You'll be able to remove the sole with the hoof pick and adjust the heels accordingly. If the horse has long heels but the sole is shiny and smooth, it means the horse is not ready to have his heels lowered.
The frog is soft and if you work enough on hard/abrasing ground it should self trim. Thinning the frog will make the horse footy because again he's got less protection of the internal structures.



floradora09 said:



			What's a bevel/mustang roll?
		
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It's rasping the wall at a 45 degrees angle. It avoids chipping and lamellar separation. It's been called "mustang roll" because it has been first observed on the wild mustangs in the US.

Some more websites for ya:
http://www.barefoothorse.com/
http://www.thehorseshoof.com/articles.html


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## cptrayes (6 August 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			:lol: I 'm not sure if Cprtayes will be too happy about that, certainly a mine of information in a minefield of dis-information
		
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I didn' spot the double meaning MrsD  !

I think it's pretty much all been said. I think the only thing I would differ with is that in my experience underrun heels can be corrected quickly. Contracted heels seem to be the worst and sometimes seem to be impossible to cure.

A note of caution - you can trim the length of the heel down and right the underrun very quickly. If you do, the horse will take so much pressure on the back part of the foot where it is not used to it, that abscessing is very likely. Sometimes, that risk is worth taking, but it is better if you can to allow graduated programme of work to bring the heels back for you.


Regarding me being a mine(field) of information - I do a lot of research, and my horses probably do, (and did even more before I gave up eventing) as testing work as any barefoot horses except possibly long distance. But I do not have many horses, and I do not trim for a living, so there are others on here with much broader experience than me. On the other hand, I have nothing to lose and I enjoy a "robust" discussion,  so I am free to tell the truth as I see it, where the pros have to hedge their bets about farriers and vets because they have to work with them. Just don't think I know it all, cos I don't.


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## Daisy2 (6 August 2011)

I went barefoot recently with navi diagnosed horse, lame all the time. SO we gave him one last chance before becoming a field ornament. Farrier recommended a guy called Barry Payne, old guy professional farrier, now only works with horses with problem feet. Barry came out assessed trimmed, fitted cavello hoof boots and we have not looked back since! No more lame and loves his work. He charged £106 for the consultation, boot fitting and supply. Now my farrier trims but I am not too happy about it, lacks attention to his feet all seems a bit of a rush, I found part of the frog he trimmed still attached so had to pull it off, I did try a barefoot trimmer but she talked so much and was so negative, plus struggled doing my guys feet, was a bit frantic, like you ideally I would like someone who has studied the barefoot trim but for now we keep with the farrier as at least he is qualified. Good luck


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## Miss L Toe (6 August 2011)

Daisy2 said:



			I went barefoot recently with navi diagnosed horse, lame all the time. SO we gave him one last chance before becoming a field ornament. Farrier recommended a guy called Barry Payne, old guy professional farrier, now only works with horses with problem feet. Barry came out assessed trimmed, fitted cavello hoof boots and we have not looked back since! No more lame and loves his work. He charged £106 for the consultation, boot fitting and supply. Now my farrier trims but I am not too happy about it, lacks attention to his feet all seems a bit of a rush, I found part of the frog he trimmed still attached so had to pull it off, I did try a barefoot trimmer but she talked so much and was so negative, plus struggled doing my guys feet, was a bit frantic, like you ideally I would like someone who has studied the barefoot trim but for now we keep with the farrier as at least he is qualified. Good luck
		
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Could you ask the old farrier to come out and explain to you how to do it yourself?


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## Fauvea (6 August 2011)

Daisy2, if you are in Oxfordshire and looking for someone, I have a farrier/trimmer I'd recommend. Otherwise, may be Barry Payne can recommend someone in the area.


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## Fauvea (6 August 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I think it's pretty much all been said. I think the only thing I would differ with is that in my experience underrun heels can be corrected quickly. Contracted heels seem to be the worst and sometimes seem to be impossible to cure.
		
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I'm interested in any info or tips there (if OP does not mind me hijacking). My mare has a club foot and a flat foot. The flat has underrun heels and long toe. She tends to put more weight on it than the club, but is sound and heel first landing on all 4. She's been barefoot for a year and although hooves have improved tremendously she is not "cured" of the underrun heels.


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## ILuvCowparsely (6 August 2011)

floradora09

 contact   Jo Grimes   on 

shoelesshorse@btinternet.com
 she is a barefoot trimmer really good she is based in hants but will travel if you have 2 horses.

I can recommend her . i use her on my bare foot 2 horses 

 I now Have Billy  5 times world champion farrier  for my mare with lami
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOJkWUlAEEo


http://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/iaep/locate.html

United Kingdom

Adi Pratt, DAEP, Shillington Beds, UK  07891 134619 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting**************07891 134619******end_of_the_skype_highlighting, adi.pratt@gmail.com,  www.naturallysound.co.uk

Amanda Hendriks, DAEP, Middlesex, UK 07958 520586, Amanda@hendriks.freeserve.co.uk

Angela Burgess, DAEP, Cornwall, UK 07971 425447 angela@angelaburgess.orangehome.co.uk

Ann Cooper, DAEP, Altrincham Cheshire, England, 01565 830258, mobile 07760248377, cooper.ann11@btinternet.com

Ashley Harwood, DAEP, Sevenoaks, Kent, UK 07903 569421, Ashharwood@myself.com

Beth Rees, DAEP, Llannelli, Carmarthenshire, Wales, UK 01269 871760 beth.rees@btinternet.com

Caroline Forrester, DAEP, Spalding, UK 01775 680819, caroline@carolineforrester.co.uk

Colette Meade, DAEP, Devon, UK 01364 642826, Colette@colettemeade.com

Emma Carlton, DAEP, Gosport, Hampshire, UK 07545 259180, carmmaequinesolutions@gmail.com

Emma Larkins, DAEP, Dunstable, UK 07889 831965, lil-darkhorse@hotmail.co.uk

Hilary Davis, DAEP, Hambledon, Hampshire, UK 02392 632055, davispeartreecottage@btinternet.com

Ian Whatley, DAEP, Datmouth, Devon, UK (00 33) (0) 296296583, Mobile (00 33) (0) 6 70 01 78 09
alt_hoofcaresystems@hotmail.co.uk,  www.appliedequinepodiatry.info

Jackie Blake, DAEP, Rhayader, Powys, UK 01597 811369, jacquieb@mac.com

Jackie Sansom, DAEP, Cambridgeshire, UK 01945 781198, info@phenomenalhooves.co.uk www.phenomenalhooves.co.uk

Jessica Day, DAEP, Devon, North Cornwall, UK 01647 432836 holistichoofcare@btinternet.com

Joanna Seymour, DAEP, New Forest, Hampshire, UK 07709181634, performance4hooves@gmail.com, www.performance4hooves.com

Joanne Clark, DAEP, Northamptonshire, UK jo@holisticequitation.co.uk, www.holisticequitation.co.uk

Joanne Culley, DAEP, Cornwall, UK 07968 692228 joanne@joanneculley.orangehome.co.uk

Jo Grimes, DAEP, Church Crookham, Hants, UK 07876 711731, shoelesshorse@btinternet.com

Karen Beaumont, DAEP, Northwich Cheshire, UK 01606 75586, karenabeaumont@yahoo.co.uk www.karenabeaumont.com

Katharina Jay, DAEP, Oxfordshire, UK 07523333764 or 01491613745 katjay11@hotmail.co.uk

Linda Kerry, DAEP, Melton, Mowbray Leics, UK 07952 248672, l.kerry@live.co.uk

Mags Hawkins, DAEP, Northamptonshire, UK 01536 712419, mags.hawkins@btinternet.com


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## cptrayes (6 August 2011)

Fauvea said:



			I'm interested in any info or tips there (if OP does not mind me hijacking). My mare has a club foot and a flat foot. The flat has underrun heels and long toe. She tends to put more weight on it than the club, but is sound and heel first landing on all 4. She's been barefoot for a year and although hooves have improved tremendously she is not "cured" of the underrun heels.
		
Click to expand...

Because I am not paid and I own every horse I trim, I would take a risk with the underrun heel if she was mine and trim it back. It would quite likely abscess and there are fifty people on here who would shoot me for causing her pain. But very often an abscess at the back of the foot blows out at the heel and the regrowth is really strong and good. 

Abscesses don't scare me, I just let them develop and blow and then syringe in hydrogen peroxide for a week until it has healed. Other people would probably be petrified at how horribly hopping lame a horse can be on an abscess that is about to burst. A paid trimmer would lose clients faster than rats leaving a sinking ship if they let it happen. 

I do not recommend that you try it. 

The difference between your horse's feet is interesting. I wonder what imbalance she has that causes two such different feet? I know of horses with one leg longer than the other which grow a club foot on the shorter leg to match the length up. Do you know if yours is like this?  If so, bringing the heel back on the longer leg would cause an even bigger difference in leg length and may well be why she reduces the height like this in the first place.


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## Miss L Toe (7 August 2011)

There are no barefoot trimmers who visit my little island, otherwise I was going to get a lesson and keep the feet trimmed myself, with the farrier called in to balance as required.
First thing my farrier does is run the knife down either side of the frog, I am reluctant to question him too much as he can be a bit of a Diva sometimes, why does he do this?
He also rasps the hooves beautifully, so that they look perfect when he has finished, and the horse is not footy after the trim. I am not sure if this is ideal, as he does have a very slight "twist" in his feet, which any farrier compensates for when shoe-ing,  
I have tried sandpapering the edges of the front hooves every week, as this is where they are chipping, but now I have a rasp, not a full size farriers rasp, one, just a wood rasp from the local ironmonger, so I hope to round the edge of the wall, and prevent "long toe", any advice is welcome, hinds are great but fronts, well, looking from below, they do not have the nice rounded edges where the wall and sole meet, and as I say there is a tendency to chip. 
The hooves have been growing healthily for two months, but the current hoof wall in contact with the ground is not perfect, but not poor. 
I want to develop concavity in the front feet, but at the moment, I want to see a nice "rounded"  appearance where the wall and the sole meet, at the moment it looks rather "flat and rather "abraded". He is just starting in to work, and gets 30 mins on a tarmac road as the main method of "working" his feet. Out at grass 20/7, stables with soaked haylage and his hoof "diet" [linseed, seaweed, magnesium , yeast, biotin, limestone etc.]


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