# British Breeders Network Foal and Sale day.



## cundlegreen (22 August 2016)

Hi, this is on next Mon at keysoe, but haven't seen it advertised anywhere except on facebook. How many of you knew this was being run and where did you find out about it. I've entered two of my foals, as it seems a brilliant idea, but am hoping people do turn up to view, otherwise it will be a wasted exercise for me and the other sellers.


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## Kathy657 (22 August 2016)

To be honest I don't think anyone in this country wants to pay realistic money for eventing & showjumping foals. Dressage foals sometimes sell quite well. Having looked at the prices at Brightwells foal sale last week, prices were disappointing. 
A lovely filly by Ramiro B out of a Heraldik mare fetched only £3200 and other jumping foals went for less. ( mind you we don't know if the vetting so showed anything up).


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## ihatework (22 August 2016)

Kathy657 said:



			To be honest I don't think anyone in this country wants to pay realistic money for eventing & showjumping foals. Dressage foals sometimes sell quite well. Having looked at the prices at Brightwells foal sale last week, prices were disappointing. 
A lovely filly by Ramiro B out of a Heraldik mare fetched only £3200 and other jumping foals went for less. ( mind you we don't know if the vetting so showed anything up).
		
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It's criminal isn't it! I watched the livestream of the foal sale.
The BBN stuff I've only seen advertised on Facebook - I really really hope it's a success. I fear entries will be low and buyers non-existent


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## cundlegreen (22 August 2016)

ihatework said:



			It's criminal isn't it! I watched the livestream of the foal sale.
The BBN stuff I've only seen advertised on Facebook - I really really hope it's a success. I fear entries will be low and buyers non-existent
		
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Thanks for that !! Rather an expensive exercise then. I wouldn't enter the elite foal sale as it came before the Futurity, and I feel a good futurity result will add value. Let's hope I'm right. What were the foals like on the livestream? I was less than impressed by the pre sale photos, compared to one of mine.


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## Kathy657 (22 August 2016)

It is criminal. On the continent people are prepared to pay good prices. However over here even when breeding from good mares and using top stallions people aren't interested. They don't even want to pay a reasonable price for a nice 3 yr old either.


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## Kathy657 (22 August 2016)

I don't think many people worry about the futurity marks, although the vet Jane Nixon picks up on things at an early stage so it's worth it for that.


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## cundlegreen (23 August 2016)

Kathy657 said:



			I don't think many people worry about the futurity marks, although the vet Jane Nixon picks up on things at an early stage so it's worth it for that.
		
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In the past, when I've sold foals, the first thing buyers wanted to know was the Futurity marks, especially the vet. I've been lucky enough that several of mine get highest vet score, which is very satisfying.


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## crabbymare (23 August 2016)

I am not going and the person I know who is looking at foals will not be going either. so far there is no list that I have seen of what foals and bloodlines will be there so what is the point of going? or is everyone expected to just turn up and hope that there is a foal with the bloodlines  and conformation. type. and movement wanted will be there and for sale? the price of foals on the continent is picking up again so hopefullt price here will follow. but the foal sale day is on a weekday so not good for a lot of people and is at the same sort of time as the aes and brightwells sales so too many options will probably mean buyers split between the 3 of them. most of the foal auctions in europe are earlier in the year and there are only a few later e.g. the verden elite is a mixed riding horse and for foals born after 1st june. there really does need to be some sort of big showcase auction here with all the big studs attending as well as smaller breeders and earlier in the year so that people buy here before the end of season when a good few will have gone abroad. no idea how to get the different organisations together but something needs to be done to get up to the standard of presentation and attendance they have abroad. an auctioneer with personality and who has some enthusiasm would also be a good idea.


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## ihatework (23 August 2016)

Im not sure why the UK just cannot get their act together. Lots of smaller initiatives not quite hitting the spot, and no real obvious joined up thinking. There are plenty of British buyers out there but they in general choose to go onto the continent to purchase. 
I quite like the BBN concept, little risk to sellers given its only £50 and you get some pictures out of it - but where is the incentive for buyers? No listing/catalogue available which I assume is due to a lack of entries. 

I am in no way shape or form either a buyer or a breeder, just a keen observer, but I was lucky enough to spend a short amount of time in Germany with a friend of a friend prior to putting my mare in foal. I was given some really good unbiased advice on stallion selection and also went to Verden and presented foals at a smaller regional auction.

It is on a different league to what we see at Addington, and no wonder Addington cannot draw big money buyers. 

The German stud I was lucky to visit is having a downsizing sale, but even this single establishment can manage to provide buyers with the info they need. In particular a de Niro Colt I'm told is exciting!
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestr...e-top-quality-foals-and-sport-horses-10-septe


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## Mince Pie (23 August 2016)

ihatework said:



http://www.eurodressage.com/equestr...e-top-quality-foals-and-sport-horses-10-septe

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Interesting that there are 2 British bred horses in the sale


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## Kathy657 (23 August 2016)

cundlegreen said:



			In the past, when I've sold foals, the first thing buyers wanted to know was the Futurity marks, especially the vet. I've been lucky enough that several of mine get highest vet score, which is very satisfying.
		
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I agree if you are selling as a youngster the futurity evaluation a
Especially the vet mark is important. When we took ours as a 3 yr old a few years ago she got 2 elites, a vet score of 9.75 and went advanced eventing. If we had sold her as a 5 yr old I doubt any pro event rider would have been bothered. If they are good enough on performance they get onto the equine pathway anyway.


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## Kathy657 (23 August 2016)

crabbymare said:



			I am not going and the person I know who is looking at foals will not be going either. so far there is no list that I have seen of what foals and bloodlines will be there so what is the point of going? or is everyone expected to just turn up and hope that there is a foal with the bloodlines  and conformation. type. and movement wanted will be there and for sale? the price of foals on the continent is picking up again so hopefullt price here will follow. but the foal sale day is on a weekday so not good for a lot of people and is at the same sort of time as the aes and brightwells sales so too many options will probably mean buyers split between the 3 of them. most of the foal auctions in europe are earlier in the year and there are only a few later e.g. the verden elite is a mixed riding horse and for foals born after 1st june. there really does need to be some sort of big showcase auction here with all the big studs attending as well as smaller breeders and earlier in the year so that people buy here before the end of season when a good few will have gone abroad. no idea how to get the different organisations together but something needs to be done to get up to the standard of presentation and attendance they have abroad. an auctioneer with personality and who has some enthusiasm would also be a good idea.
		
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Well said


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## Lulup (23 August 2016)

Cundlegreen Have you got any of your 'older' youngsters (in work) for sale? x


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## crabbymare (23 August 2016)

ihatework said:



			Im not sure why the UK just cannot get their act together. Lots of smaller initiatives not quite hitting the spot, and no real obvious joined up thinking. There are plenty of British buyers out there but they in general choose to go onto the continent to purchase. 
I quite like the BBN concept, little risk to sellers given its only £50 and you get some pictures out of it - but where is the incentive for buyers? No listing/catalogue available which I assume is due to a lack of entries. 

I am in no way shape or form either a buyer or a breeder, just a keen observer, but I was lucky enough to spend a short amount of time in Germany with a friend of a friend prior to putting my mare in foal. I was given some really good unbiased advice on stallion selection and also went to Verden and presented foals at a smaller regional auction.

It is on a different league to what we see at Addington, and no wonder Addington cannot draw big money buyers. 

The German stud I was lucky to visit is having a downsizing sale, but even this single establishment can manage to provide buyers with the info they need. In particular a de Niro Colt I'm told is exciting!
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestr...e-top-quality-foals-and-sport-horses-10-septe

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therre are some very interesting ones in that sale and if I was headed out there its certainly one I would look at. why oh why can the british breeders not produce something simple like that so people have an idea of whats going to be there. I feel so sorry for the sellers as they deserve better



Mince Pie said:



			Interesting that there are 2 British bred horses in the sale 

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 I noticed those 3. one will probably make close to 5 figures and the other is by a young stallion but with a very good damline so although her colout may put people off over there equally she could appeal to both sports buyers and breeders for later on. they both look as if they were born there so why with the uk prices would the owner want to pay shipping to get them to addington or the sale day when the price will most likely be significantly higher in germany. I would guess that the cost of keep and insemination would be a fair bit different as well if they are kept where I think they are, plus if they are at the place I am thinking of they will be able to live out all year which is not always possible here. Its not going to be easy. but there needs to be some way to get all the smaller groups together without any preconditions or heirarchy and sort out a way to get breeders here as good a deal as they get on  the continent and to a slightly lesser extent things like go for gold in the other direction. also the british need to get the idea of auctions being for rubbish horses out of their heads. there are some damned good horses that get sold at auction and the big auctions that are properly run are nothing like the old markets that so often had a bad name and were for problem horses.


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## cundlegreen (24 August 2016)

Lulup said:



			Cundlegreen Have you got any of your 'older' youngsters (in work) for sale? x
		
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This is the first year in the last 5 that I have bred anything. The market was bad in 2009, and my husband was diagnosed with cancer, so the mares and foals went. The only older homebred is now 10, and competing here successfully up to intermediate BE. She's a keeper as she was the only filly from her dam who went to 2*. It's her foal that's entered for this sale day. Would you believe that I got asked today for photos and details. The sale is on Monday!!


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## cundlegreen (24 August 2016)

crabbymare said:



			therre are some very interesting ones in that sale and if I was headed out there its certainly one I would look at. why oh why can the british breeders not produce something simple like that so people have an idea of whats going to be there. I feel so sorry for the sellers as they deserve better

 I noticed those 3. one will probably make close to 5 figures and the other is by a young stallion but with a very good damline so although her colout may put people off over there equally she could appeal to both sports buyers and breeders for later on. they both look as if they were born there so why with the uk prices would the owner want to pay shipping to get them to addington or the sale day when the price will most likely be significantly higher in germany. I would guess that the cost of keep and insemination would be a fair bit different as well if they are kept where I think they are, plus if they are at the place I am thinking of they will be able to live out all year which is not always possible here. Its not going to be easy. but there needs to be some way to get all the smaller groups together without any preconditions or heirarchy and sort out a way to get breeders here as good a deal as they get on  the continent and to a slightly lesser extent things like go for gold in the other direction. also the british need to get the idea of auctions being for rubbish horses out of their heads. there are some damned good horses that get sold at auction and the big auctions that are properly run are nothing like the old markets that so often had a bad name and were for problem horses.
		
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I still can't understand why the BEF don't do this. They run the Futurity anyway, and are co-hosting the BBN mare and foal days at some venues. We pay enough to enter, and they dropped a long time ago the Elite show for the highest scored horses from the series. It's very hard to get a shop window in this country.


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## Springs (24 August 2016)

More information on the BBN shows and sales can be found here

http://britishbreedersnetwork.org/


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## crabbymare (24 August 2016)

Springs said:



			More information on the BBN shows and sales can be found here

http://britishbreedersnetwork.org/

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that is what is so very very frustrating. the entries close at midnight tonight so with luck they will have photos and video tomorrow. no way can they get a catalogue out to mr or ms  buyer until Friday so all the buyer knows at the moment is the breeding. what type are  the foals how big are they? people are not going to want to book time off work and go to this sort of thing without some sort of proper list   if they are incredibly lucky and have a spot booked at a printers that  they can collect from and it will arrive what monday? tuesday?. that is absolouely crazy it needs to be out at least 2 weeks before the event preferably more. where is the advertising to the buyers? what is the point of having the information on a website and facebook page that predominantly breeders look at? they must must must get the general public looking and buying at sensible prices. to do that they need to know there is a sale on which means waving the equivilent of big billboards in peoples faces to get them there. get leaflets sent out by robinsons ridaway oe derby house. I feel so sorry for the sellers and really hope that someone somewhere has a database or list of buyers email addresses so that people get interest in the foals and sell them at decent prices. op please let us know how it goes and I really hope you get interest in your foals and they sell for you.


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## cundlegreen (24 August 2016)

crabbymare said:



			that is what is so very very frustrating. the entries close at midnight tonight so with luck they will have photos and video tomorrow. no way can they get a catalogue out to mr or ms  buyer until Friday so all the buyer knows at the moment is the breeding. what type are  the foals how big are they? people are not going to want to book time off work and go to this sort of thing without some sort of proper list   if they are incredibly lucky and have a spot booked at a printers that  they can collect from and it will arrive what monday? tuesday?. that is absolouely crazy it needs to be out at least 2 weeks before the event preferably more. where is the advertising to the buyers? what is the point of having the information on a website and facebook page that predominantly breeders look at? they must must must get the general public looking and buying at sensible prices. to do that they need to know there is a sale on which means waving the equivilent of big billboards in peoples faces to get them there. get leaflets sent out by robinsons ridaway oe derby house. I feel so sorry for the sellers and really hope that someone somewhere has a database or list of buyers email addresses so that people get interest in the foals and sell them at decent prices. op please let us know how it goes and I really hope you get interest in your foals and they sell for you.
		
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thanks for the good wishes! There are 23 foals now entered, but let's hope some potential buyers turn up, otherwise its a very expensive exercise. 
I have actually got the Futurity tomorrow, then eventing at keysoe on fri and Sun, and going back there for this foal show on the Monday! With all that plaiting, and driving, I want to meet people that are interested in my foals.


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## Kathy657 (24 August 2016)

Cundlegreen, how is your foal bred?


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## crabbymare (25 August 2016)

Kathy657 said:



			Cundlegreen, how is your foal bred?
		
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cundlegreen has 2. both by feinfach tory boy out of concorde mares a brown filly and a chestnut colt


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## cundlegreen (25 August 2016)

crabbymare said:



			cundlegreen has 2. both by feinfach tory boy out of concorde mares a brown filly and a chestnut colt 

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Not quite right. Chestnut colt out of concorde mare, brown filly out of my event mare now jumping Nov/intermediate BE.


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## cundlegreen (25 August 2016)

The babies at the Futurity today....... The brown filly's mother is doing her first intermediate of the season at keysoe tomorrow. I DO hope it's not as hot as today.


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## crabbymare (25 August 2016)

cundlegreen said:



			Not quite right. Chestnut colt out of concorde mare, brown filly out of my event mare now jumping Nov/intermediate BE.
		
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you may want to tell british breeders network that.  see the link from springs above. well done with the foals today and good luck with the mare tomorrow a good result will be perfect timing


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## cundlegreen (26 August 2016)

crabbymare said:



			you may want to tell british breeders network that.  see the link from springs above. well done with the foals today and good luck with the mare tomorrow a good result will be perfect timing
		
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Unfortunately, we never got to the event, as had a double blowout some way from Keysoe, and couldn't get there in time. VERY frustrating!


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## volatis (28 August 2016)

Over time it would be nice if the BBN developed a database of potential buyers that could be emailed an electronic catalogue but it takes time to get these events into the public eye. As a stand alone sale not linked to an event that the public might attend, it is really down to the breeders to let people they know who are competing that the event is on. 
I have published info on the Foal show they are running on the Breeding British facebook page (my own page and not linked to BBN in any way) this morning as it is also the new Futurity championship for the dressage and show jumping foals, and I wasnt aware of that until last night. 
I will share the online catalogue for the foal sale too, just in case people I know dont have plans yet for tomorrow and fancy going along for a nosey


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## cundlegreen (28 August 2016)

volatis said:



			Over time it would be nice if the BBN developed a database of potential buyers that could be emailed an electronic catalogue but it takes time to get these events into the public eye. As a stand alone sale not linked to an event that the public might attend, it is really down to the breeders to let people they know who are competing that the event is on. 
I have published info on the Foal show they are running on the Breeding British facebook page (my own page and not linked to BBN in any way) this morning as it is also the new Futurity championship for the dressage and show jumping foals, and I wasnt aware of that until last night. 
I will share the online catalogue for the foal sale too, just in case people I know dont have plans yet for tomorrow and fancy going along for a nosey
		
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Well done! Us breeders need all the help we can get, as this appears to be very much a closed shop, and not well advertised IMO. The sad thing is that it is nearly all dressage foals. I think there are only three going as jumpers, and two are mine in the eventing sections.


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## sywell (29 August 2016)

cundlegreen said:



			I still can't understand why the BEF don't do this. They run the Futurity anyway, and are co-hosting the BBN mare and foal days at some venues. We pay enough to enter, and they dropped a long time ago the Elite show for the highest scored horses from the series. It's very hard to get a shop window in this country.
		
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With a new CEO at the BEF with Andrew leaving maybe some lottery money will be directed to British Breeding, When the Futurity was set up it was planned that there would be a pot of money to present to the breeder(not owner) of the most successful 5 year old that was presented as a foal onwards.(from memory) I remember getting money for a first premium in the early days. I also think all foals should be DNA parentage tested the BHHS has done this since 2006 for £30.


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## crabbymare (30 August 2016)

lets hope the bef decide to put some money into the breeding side. even if its just a futurity championship sort of event with a sale of foals attached it would be a start. does anyone know if the sale was a success in that most foals sold and what sort of price range they went for?


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## cundlegreen (31 August 2016)

crabbymare said:



			lets hope the bef decide to put some money into the breeding side. even if its just a futurity championship sort of event with a sale of foals attached it would be a start. does anyone know if the sale was a success in that most foals sold and what sort of price range they went for?
		
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I went with my two. Didn't honestly have anybody who were interested in mine, but most were dressage foals. I spoke to another breeder there who hadn't sold anything, and said that there weren't many buyers there. There were quite a few people viewing in the arena, but possibly connected with other foals. It will be interesting to find out if anything sold. The good part was, that we all get professional photos by the Futurity photographer, and a video with full breeding. This is a big help in selling on a website. Lynn Crowden from Woodlander stud did a wonderful job of commentating on all the foals, for which I was very grateful, as it was just me and my rather inexperienced son, so were shorthanded when it came to showing the babies off. There were some very nice foals there, but, being occupied with mine, I don't know what sort of prices they were asking. Lots to like about the concept, but PR needs a lot more work, as buyers need plenty of time to arrange to come to these events, and an early catalogue that can be updated constantly would be much better. I never did get a reply about how I should show off my foals, so was relieved to see a triangle set up. The problem for me, was that the BBN used the new arena at keysoe, which had no gates up to stop escapees, just some steel hurdles. That was fine for foals at foot, as they stayed more or less with their dams. I, unfortunately had a filly who had been weaned, and she was determined to escape the arena, which was a bit dangerous, as people were standing in the open entrance.


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## TGM (31 August 2016)

Cundlegreen, is the Concorde mare the chestnut is out of, Sammy Jo G?


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## cundlegreen (31 August 2016)

TGM said:



			Cundlegreen, is the Concorde mare the chestnut is out of, Sammy Jo G?
		
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Yes.


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## TGM (31 August 2016)

cundlegreen said:



			Yes.
		
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Ah, thought it might be, I have a three year old out of her, by Take It 2 The Limit.


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## cundlegreen (31 August 2016)

TGM said:



			Ah, thought it might be, I have a three year old out of her, by Take It 2 The Limit.
		
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Did you buy yours from the lady in Lincolnshire? Ian Wills was interested in it but she's already sold it. You must be excited for the future being a full brother to a 3* horse.


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## TGM (31 August 2016)

Yes we did.  Very pleased with him so far, just backed him last week.


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## cundlegreen (31 August 2016)

He should have a nice temperament, the mare is an absolute dear in every way.


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## TGM (31 August 2016)

He has, mostly very sensible and chilled, although he can be sharp on occasions!  But even when the weather was foul and wet last winter and he had to be kept in a couple of days, he still led out to the fields like a lamb.  Happily loads in a box and travels on his own, been out to a couple of very busy inhand shows and been a star.  Just a nice horse to have around.

This is him:







Your boy looks very smart, are you going to do the same cross again?


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## cundlegreen (31 August 2016)

TGM said:



			He has, mostly very sensible and chilled, although he can be sharp on occasions!  But even when the weather was foul and wet last winter and he had to be kept in a couple of days, he still led out to the fields like a lamb.  Happily loads in a box and travels on his own, been out to a couple of very busy inhand shows and been a star.  Just a nice horse to have around.

This is him:







Your boy looks very smart, are you going to do the same cross again?
		
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Interesting that he's a chestnut too. I wasn't sure if the colour came from my stallion. He's got a much nicer head than Sky, who has his dam's head. Yes, I will cover her again next year with my stallion, should breed really good jumpers with that cross. She foaled late this year, and had a hard time, so I thought it was best to leave her to recover. She certainly does her foals well, I was told at the Futurity to get my boy weaned, as he is almost too big for his joints. i'll be advertising him next week if you hear of anybody.


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## TGM (31 August 2016)

I think the chestnut gene has to come from both sides of the pedigree for the offspring to be chestnut, as it is recessive.  If I know of anyone looking for a jumping-bred foal I will point them in your direction but unfortunately everyone seems to be looking for 3/4 yos at the moment


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