# Hello again - and Tobago update?



## htobago (17 March 2010)

Hello! Sorry I haven't been here for ages - been having some problems recovering from surgery and so on, but improving now. Just thought some of my boy Tobago's friends on here might like a little update on him (and some baby-pics!). Is it OK to post this? I'm not sure what the rules are now and wouldn't want to do anything wrong, so will wait for 'OK' from members before posting...


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## dingle12 (17 March 2010)

Im sure everyone would like to see pics of your boy  glad your feeling better xx


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## Tempi (17 March 2010)

Glad you are on the mend   Would love to see some pictures of your boy and babies, hes such a stunner


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## Sophiesmum (17 March 2010)

Oh my goodness - you don't know me but i used to love your Tobago updates and was just thinking the other day I hadn't seen anything of him for ages!  Glad you are feeling better.

Yes please - pics needed!


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## Enfys (17 March 2010)

Hello,

Lovely to see your name up here again, I for one have missed news from you and often think about you and himself.

So, come on then, what's the boy been up to? I think the last thing I really read was that he was just getting started under saddle. 

As for all this ridiculousness (real word?) about advertising, what utter drivel. 

Everybody talks about their horses, so what if he is a stallion? If someone sees him, likes him and is interested in using him they can find all the info for themselves. If mentioning a stallion by name constitutes advertising then Dashbardee Jet, Dashbardee Jet, Dashbardee Jet, go on button pushers, report ME! I am always putting up photos of him and HIS babies just because he's mine and I quite like him.


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## Spot_the_Risk (17 March 2010)

Please put up lots of pics of Tobago and his offspring, it's lovely to have you back on the forum, I think you've been in a lot of peoples minds.


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## htobago (17 March 2010)

Oh - thank you! You are all so kind.

Well, given the encouraging replies on this thread and the 'where's tobago?' thread that I found after posting this, it seems it would be OK for me to give a little update and post a few baby-pics! 

So - I am feeling quite chuffed cos since I last posted updates on here Tobago's babies have been doing very well in the show ring, especially at the 2009 Arab National Championships. His tally of champions now includes:

British National Champion Foal
British National Champion Futurity Yearling Colt
British National Palomino Champion
British National Reserve Reserve Champion Yearling Colt
Champion Arabian Foal, The Royal Show
Palomino Youngstock Champion, The Royal Show
Reserve Junior Male Champion, The Classic Arabian Show

I see these as victories for the 'little people', as Tobago is my only horse and has no mares of his own. Titles like these nearly always go to sires from the big wealthy Arab studs - in fact, Tobago is the first one-horse-owner's stallion ever to sire even one British National Champion, let alone as many as this! 

Very much a case of 'beginner's luck' though, as Tobago is only the second horse I have ever owned! I still don't feel ready to start my own breeding programme - got far too much still to learn...

Anyway, this is really about the babies, but here is Tobago himself to remind you what he looks like:


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## htobago (17 March 2010)

And here is his yearling son Marbon Mobago, who was British National Reserve Reserve Champion at the Nationals (and Reserve Champion Junior Male at The Classic Arabian Show). Photo by Emma Maxwell (who also took the pic above of Tobago):


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## htobago (17 March 2010)

And here is Marbon Mobago at the Nationals - doing what all Tobagolings love best: showing off!


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## htobago (17 March 2010)

Just a couple more of Mobago - as you may have gathered, I am a bit smitten with this colt, mainly because he looks so much like his Daddy!


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## Holly831 (17 March 2010)

Wow - stunning!  What more can I say?


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## magic104 (17 March 2010)

It is lovely to get the update, but sorry to say, I hate this way of showing arabs, it does nothing for them.  How is the boy doing under saddle?


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## the watcher (17 March 2010)

Lovely to see Tobagoling pics.

Kate, there is one in Photo Gallery today of Onyx who is doing his level best to be ALL arab


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## the watcher (17 March 2010)

magic104 said:



			It is lovely to get the update, but sorry to say, I hate this way of showing arabs, it does nothing for them.  How is the boy doing under saddle?
		
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I'm not sure what there is not to like in this picture even if you are not a huge fan of the breed


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## magic104 (17 March 2010)

It has nothing to do with the breed, it is the unatural way they are asked to star gaze when stood up.


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## magicgirl (17 March 2010)

I love to hear how Tobago is doing.  I am not an "arab person" at all but the pictures of him makes my heart skip a beat, not sure what would happen if I saw him in the flesh.  How is his ridden career going.


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## the watcher (17 March 2010)

I suppose there is some pressure on the handlers to conform to expectations of how Arab horses should be shown. The 'frozen' pose is quite natural for them (even my part bred does it in the field) so as long as they are achieving it without the use of excessive force or fear then it is probably harmless. I'm not a big fan of the oily appearance but hey, plenty of people seem to like it.

I'm not a huge fan of full feather and unclipped coats on natives but accept if I want to show one then I have to leave all that darn hair on - every breed has showing expectations.


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## htobago (17 March 2010)

magic104 said:



			It has nothing to do with the breed, it is the unatural way they are asked to star gaze when stood up.
		
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I do take your point Magic - and I'm not a fan of the more 'extreme' poses in the Arab show ring either.

But Mobago's trainer I think shows in a more natural manner - this head position may seem a bit high to some, but it would be regarded as 'natural' by current standards in Arab showing:







Here Mobago's head is high, but as you can see from the position and tension on the lead-rein, his trainer is actually trying to get him to lower his head (and pay attention, and stop shouting!):







This colt does also have a naturally high head-carriage and, er, flamboyant style - as seen in the first 2 pics, where he's just poncing about all by himself with no handler - I'll post them again here to save people the trouble of looking back:













And I think the photo Watcher posted again shows the happy friendship between colt and trainer - there is clearly no coercion or 'hyping' there - just horse and handler both having a lot of fun!

And just for a giggle, here is one of the colt having a lot of fun and the poor handler struggling to keep up!:


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## Vetty (17 March 2010)

He is absolutely gorgeous!


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## htobago (17 March 2010)

Sorry - meant to say a big thank you to everyone for the nice comments!

Also, just noticed that 2 people have asked how Tobago himself is going under saddle, and I haven't replied - sorry again! He's been making good progress, but unfortunately somewhat interrupted this winter by 3 factors: the godawful weather (no indoor school at the stud); his rider's racing commitments; and a few minor injuries (thanks to his own infuriating tendency to indulge in ludicrous high-speed gravity-defying antics when turned out). *sigh* I do love him. Really I do.


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## Guinness (17 March 2010)

Arab horses naturally have quite a high head carriage, and long necks. The also often have large shoulder joints compared to other breeds, which will lead to their neck being set on fairly high (and one of the reasons they have such beautiful elevated paces). With ridden showing, Arabs are shown fairly "upright" and I suppose with in-hand showing the point is to show off their best traits that make Arab horses a distinct and unique breed-one of these traits is their necks. I do think "showcraft" is a bit of a problem with in-hand showing, and I know the AHS have started doing natural showing classes rather than the traditional classes. The cynic in me thinks this is more welfare based though...

Tobago, your horses are beautiful! Having worked at a small Arab stud I know how facey showing can be (especially with Arabs) so its great that the smaller breeders are getting recognised.


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## Guinness (17 March 2010)

PS I love that the bloke showing him is wearing Nike trainers! Obviously needs them!


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## Kenniford (17 March 2010)

I am not 'into' Arabs, but.............wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Abbeygale (17 March 2010)

Your boy is gorgeous as always - and I am really glad that you posted an update, as I was also wondering where you and all your lovely photos had gone!! 

I have a little grey arab (who is just off being started!! very exciting!!) and while I agree with other posters that I'm not a fan of the way some arabs are shown - I can see from my little chap that so much of it is natural.  Rupert has quite a high head carriage and will stand out in the field with his head up really quite high compared to my other horses - he is also naturally a big show off, and ponses around everywhere, at every oppurtunity!! 

Please can we have some ridden pics of your lovely stallion soon??


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## Navalgem (17 March 2010)

Flo_Bell said:



			Your boy is gorgeous as always - and I am really glad that you posted an update, as I was also wondering where you and all your lovely photos had gone!! 

Please can we have some ridden pics of your lovely stallion soon??   

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Seconded! and ps clear your PM box out!! 

Hope you are making a speedy recovery.


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## kerilli (17 March 2010)

lovely pics of stunning horses, thank you for posting them, tobago. hope you are okay and recuperating.


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## Rollin (17 March 2010)

What lovely photos.  Well done Kate.  You are an inspiration to small breeders.

Where do you keep your lovely boy?  Are you going to get a leg over and post a pic?


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## Tempi (18 March 2010)

Oh wow, Tobago and his Tobagolings look amazing as always, you must be so pleased with him (and them!)  xx


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## eventrider23 (18 March 2010)

He and babies are looking amazing as usual!!!  I am not usually into Arabs but he remains the one and only Arab I would actually consider breeding to!!

As for the head carriage...yes it is high but as others have said, this is very natural for an Arab.  If you want to see 'unnatural' head carriage, look at heavy horse showing.  The Shires and co are made to carry their heads incredibly high and be held at that height throughout their walk and trot ups....you can see examples of this here:
http://www.shiresandclydesdales.com/images/new_horses/0712_43/0712_43_c.jpg
and standing up in here:
http://cloud.equinenow.com/190839_1/american_shire_horse.jpg


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## Thistle (18 March 2010)

Fab pics of a very handsome horse. I am so pleased to see your upate, I wondered how he was.


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## htobago (18 March 2010)

Navalgem said:



			Seconded! and ps clear your PM box out!! 

Hope you are making a speedy recovery.
		
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Thank you - and thanks again everyone!

Sorry about the inbox - just received an email alert to tell me it was full and people were trying to send messages, so have done a big clear-out!


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## Evadiva1514 (18 March 2010)

HI K, lovely to see you on here again and see pictures of the gorgeous Tobago. His son looks absolutely stunning too!! Congartulations on your success with him and his beautiful babies!!


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## htobago (18 March 2010)

Guinness said:



			PS I love that the bloke showing him is wearing Nike trainers! Obviously needs them!



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LOL - well spotted! You wouldn't think that a top professional trainer/handler could have any trouble keeping up with his* baby yearling, but this little boy can really move! The Nikes are essential!

*Mark Gamlin is Mobago's co-owner as well as his trainer - Mobago was purchased from his breeder Diane Ellis by Mark and his father Peter Gamlin - both are leading international Arab judges as well as show-trainers. And the nicest part of the story is that the Gamlins very reluctantly sold Tobago to me as a 2yo (they owned him in partnership with 2 other breeders). I had to beg and plead to persuade them to let me buy Tobago, and they have been missing him greatly ever since, so they were absolutely thrilled to find and buy a beautiful son of their much-loved Tobago...


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## PalominoMare (18 March 2010)

htobago said:



			LOL - well spotted! You wouldn't think that a top professional trainer/handler could have any trouble keeping up with his* baby yearling, but this little boy can really move! The Nikes are essential!

*Mark Gamlin is Mobago's co-owner as well as his trainer - Mobago was purchased from his breeder Diane Ellis by Mark and his father Peter Gamlin - both are leading international Arab judges as well as show-trainers. And the nicest part of the story is that the Gamlins very reluctantly sold Tobago to me as a 2yo (they owned him in partnership with 2 other breeders). I had to beg and plead to persuade them to let me buy Tobago, and they have been missing him greatly ever since, so they were absolutely thrilled to find and buy a beautiful son of their much-loved Tobago...
		
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That's lovelly!

Mobago is gorgeous and very well developed for a yearling! thanks for sharing!


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## htobago (18 March 2010)

eventrider23 said:



			He and babies are looking amazing as usual!!!  I am not usually into Arabs but he remains the one and only Arab I would actually consider breeding to!!

As for the head carriage...yes it is high but as others have said, this is very natural for an Arab.  If you want to see 'unnatural' head carriage, look at heavy horse showing.  The Shires and co are made to carry their heads incredibly high and be held at that height throughout their walk and trot ups....you can see examples of this here:
http://www.shiresandclydesdales.com/images/new_horses/0712_43/0712_43_c.jpg
and standing up in here:
http://cloud.equinenow.com/190839_1/american_shire_horse.jpg

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Wow - thank you - that is a huge compliment from you and hugely appreciated!

Re the Shires - ugh! You are right, that one being stood up looks particularly ridiculous. These heavy draught horses surely do not naturally have such high head-carriage? I had no idea they posed them like this in the show ring! (Jolly difficult to achieve this pose with a Shire too, I would imagine, unless the handler is extremely tall!)


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## htobago (18 March 2010)

PalominoMare said:



			That's lovelly!

Mobago is gorgeous and very well developed for a yearling! thanks for sharing!
		
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Thank you!

And if (judging by your username) you like palominos, you might like to see the palomino Tobago-filly I have just posted in a new thread...! (Although you're probably a serious big sport-horse breeder, and the filly is just a dinky little show-pony type. I do have some pics of a palomino colt-foal by Tobago out of a WB mare, if you or any other pally-fans would like to see these?)


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## htobago (18 March 2010)

Flo_Bell said:



			Your boy is gorgeous as always - and I am really glad that you posted an update, as I was also wondering where you and all your lovely photos had gone!! 

I have a little grey arab (who is just off being started!! very exciting!!) and while I agree with other posters that I'm not a fan of the way some arabs are shown - I can see from my little chap that so much of it is natural.  Rupert has quite a high head carriage and will stand out in the field with his head up really quite high compared to my other horses - he is also naturally a big show off, and ponses around everywhere, at every oppurtunity!! 

Please can we have some ridden pics of your lovely stallion soon??   

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Thank you! 

Oh - I would love to see your Arab - do you have any pics you could post? He sounds great fun! What's his breeding?

I will try to get some decent ridden pics of my boy for you as soon as I can, I promise. His main rider is tied up with racing at the moment (he's a jump jockey, among other talents) so it's a bit difficult, but will do my best!


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## htobago (18 March 2010)

the watcher said:



			Lovely to see Tobagoling pics.

Kate, there is one in Photo Gallery today of Onyx who is doing his level best to be ALL arab
		
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Just seen this! Onyx is adorable!


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## LauraBR (18 March 2010)

They are SO beautiful! I went to the Northern Arabian Show last summer to take photographs to paint from and I heard the commentator mention a Tobago baby in the ring... I got all excited but didn't have a clue which one it was as I my ears had pricked up too late to hear it all!  :grin:


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## htobago (18 March 2010)

the watcher said:



			I suppose there is some pressure on the handlers to conform to expectations of how Arab horses should be shown. The 'frozen' pose is quite natural for them (even my part bred does it in the field) so as long as they are achieving it without the use of excessive force or fear then it is probably harmless. I'm not a big fan of the oily appearance but hey, plenty of people seem to like it.

I'm not a huge fan of full feather and unclipped coats on natives but accept if I want to show one then I have to leave all that darn hair on - every breed has showing expectations.
		
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Very good points! 

I have to say that although I don't like the extreme poses, one thing I do like about Arab in-hand showing is the way they trot the horses up on a long/loose rein, giving them full freedom to move and 'express themselves'. At least, I like this when it's done properly, without any of the fear/noise/'hyping-up' of the horse that one does sadly see all too often. 

Mark Gamlin is one of the big international Arab trainers who is known for his gentle, non-hyping approach to showing Arabs. He says that either a horse is a 'natural show horse' (like Tobago and Mobago), with lots of natural presence and sparkle, who simply loves to show off, or it is not. If it is not a 'natural show horse' - if it has to be 'hyped' and/or frightened into showing animation and excitement - then the answer is simple: don't show it!!!

Not all Arabs are 'natural show horses' - or at least not all have the rather extreme degree of animation and presence required to win in today's in-hand show rings. Certain Arab bloodlines are known for passing on this 'show attitude' (you won't be surprised to hear that Tobago comes from very 'showy' lines!), while others tend to be naturally more placid in their demeanour. 

I'm sure the same is true in other breeds as well (are there some particularly 'showy' lines in Highland Pony breeding, watcher?) although possibly few other breeds require such extravagant levels of animation/presence in the show ring? Welsh Cobs maybe are comparable?


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## Abbeygale (18 March 2010)

htobago said:



			Thank you! 

Oh - I would love to see your Arab - do you have any pics you could post? He sounds great fun! What's his breeding?

I will try to get some decent ridden pics of my boy for you as soon as I can, I promise. His main rider is tied up with racing at the moment (he's a jump jockey, among other talents) so it's a bit difficult, but will do my best!
		
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He is by Ansata Qasim and out of JMA Moniette

he is a bit on the dinky side - but he has a really lovely sweet nature.  Unfortunately he came to me verging on the rescue case, and was still looking a bit poor in these pics - but has filled out so much more over this last winter, which I am so pleased about.  

He is a little bit of a stress head - which is why he has gone away to be started - as I don't have the time or facilities to work with him on a daily basis at the moment 

And please do excuse the grubbiness!!  He is very white underneath all that grubby - but unfortunately does delight in being a filthy little herbert!! 














And some of the shapes he throws in the field.... 



















he is a little star - and he definitely has a great sense of humour!!  I should have some new pics of him under saddle soon!


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## the watcher (18 March 2010)

htobago said:



			Not all Arabs are 'natural show horses' - or at least not all have the rather extreme degree of animation and presence required to win in today's in-hand show rings. Certain Arab bloodlines are known for passing on this 'show attitude' (you won't be surprised to hear that Tobago comes from very 'showy' lines!), while others tend to be naturally more placid in their demeanour. 

I'm sure the same is true in other breeds as well (are there some particularly 'showy' lines in Highland Pony breeding, watcher?) although possibly few other breeds require such extravagant levels of animation/presence in the show ring? Welsh Cobs maybe are comparable?
		
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No, not really in the Highland ponies, they are enough of a force to be reckoned with without having that kind of animation in the show ring - and the stallions are very commonly shown in side reins anyway so couldn't fully express that. They have 'presence' but it is a bit different.


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## htobago (19 March 2010)

Thanks watcher. Actually your comments have made me think that this whole issue of 'presence' and what it means in different breeds is an interesting question which perhaps deserves its own thread rather than being discussed under a 'Tobago' heading. Might start a new thread about this!


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## htobago (19 March 2010)

Flo-Bell your boy is utterly adorable! And has some v nice breeding! Very sorry to hear that he had such a poor start in life - well done you for taking him on. I'd love to see photos of him under saddle when you get them - but again I think that deserves its own thread: please post one, OK?


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## Abbeygale (20 March 2010)

Yes I will do - the yard that he is at being started phone to tell that he has made some real progress this week - and they had a video of him that they were going to put on you tube - so I will post the link over once I have it! 

I am hoping to get down and take some pics of him shortly as well - so will of course post them as well  

He is a little star - he is a little nervy, mainly because he hadn't been touched at all until he was 2 and a half, but he has not got a nasty bone in him at all!  His brain often falls out of his ear, but no nastiness!!


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## argyle (20 March 2010)

They are both beautiful!  

Probably a silly question as I know absolutely nothing about arabs, but are they a fast maturing breed?  I appreciate Mobago has been produced to be in show condition but he just looks so perfect, not like my gangly warmblood yearlings at all


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## htobago (20 March 2010)

argyle said:



			They are both beautiful!  

Probably a silly question as I know absolutely nothing about arabs, but are they a fast maturing breed?  I appreciate Mobago has been produced to be in show condition but he just looks so perfect, not like my gangly warmblood yearlings at all 

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Thank you!

I wouldn't say that Arabs are fast-maturing - it's just that some lucky ones seem to remain all smooth and even and 'perfect'-looking as they grow and develop, somehow managing never to go through the usual awkward, angular, uneven, gangly, bum-high or other fugly stages. These fortunate paragons are the ones that get shown at the higher levels, of course!

Tobago was one of these smooth, 'perfect' types as a youngster too. Here is how he looked as a 2yo, for example, which is normally one of the 'awkward' stages of development:



















But I think that Arabs probably vary in this respect as much as warmbloods or any other breed - I've certainly seen plenty of gangly, awkward-looking, uneven Arab yearlings and 2-year-olds!


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## htobago (20 March 2010)

Flo_Bell said:



			Yes I will do - the yard that he is at being started phone to tell that he has made some real progress this week - and they had a video of him that they were going to put on you tube - so I will post the link over once I have it! 

I am hoping to get down and take some pics of him shortly as well - so will of course post them as well  

He is a little star - he is a little nervy, mainly because he hadn't been touched at all until he was 2 and a half, but he has not got a nasty bone in him at all!  His brain often falls out of his ear, but no nastiness!! 

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LOL - I do love the way you put things - never heard 'brain falls out of his ear' before, but I can see exactly what you mean! Your chap sounds very sweet and I'm really looking forward to seeing more pics and the video!


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## somethingorother (20 March 2010)

I have missed your posts on Tobago, he is the best eye candy 

Glad to hear you are doing well as well as your boy and his offspring, you must be sooo proud! 

I mentioned him to the owner of my share arab a couple of weeks ago, saying how much i loved him and that i knew of him from coming on here and she said she knew of him too and he was a stunner 

So he's getting pretty well known now! And rightly so too. How is the 'seahorse' foal that caused an argument on another forum doing? Would love to see any updated pics of how they are coming on as i guess they will have grown into their dish now, bet they are just as lovely as their daddy.


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## *hic* (21 March 2010)

Wow Kate - it's so good to see you back. Here's hoping your recovery continues smoothly!

Always great to see pictures of Tobago and Mobago is stunning too. Such a nice thing that the Gamlins have got him. I'm now going to look for more Tobago and Tobagoling photos.


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## magic104 (21 March 2010)

eventrider23 said:



			He and babies are looking amazing as usual!!!  I am not usually into Arabs but he remains the one and only Arab I would actually consider breeding to!!

As for the head carriage...yes it is high but as others have said, this is very natural for an Arab.  If you want to see 'unnatural' head carriage, look at heavy horse showing.  The Shires and co are made to carry their heads incredibly high and be held at that height throughout their walk and trot ups....you can see examples of this here:
http://www.shiresandclydesdales.com/images/new_horses/0712_43/0712_43_c.jpg
and standing up in here:
http://cloud.equinenow.com/190839_1/american_shire_horse.jpg

Click to expand...

So what everyone is saying is that this is more natural 






then












I cant even find a photo of a ridden arab standing in the manner of the 1st pic.  I dont have the facilities to load up photos taken from the AHS show back in the 80's when held at Ascot race course, but I dont see one Arab standing in this now preferred stance either.  Sorry high head carriage is one thing, standing with the face verticle to the sky is another.


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## skint1 (21 March 2010)

No offense meant to anyone but I agree with eventrider23.


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## walkingman (21 March 2010)

Magic, you appear to have misunderstood what people are saying. It seems that everyone is in complete agreement with you; that an unnatural head carriage isn't desirable.

However, if I've misunderstood you and you are still feeling that the photos htobago has posted demonstrate a forced and unnatural posture, go back and compare the photos of Tobago and his off spring with the first picture you've posted. You'll see a clear difference not only in the actual head carriage shape, but in the way the horse is being asked to express it. i.e. in the picture you've posted, you can see by the lead rein that the handler is explicitly encouraging the Arab to adopt a very high head carriage, whereas in all the pictures htobago has posted, all the horses heads are naturally posed with no encouragement, and in none of the photos are they demonstrating the 'star gazer' attitude.

htobago, beautiful horses, a great story about Mobago and good to know Tobago's off-spring are going to such great homes.  You've obviously done them all very proud.


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