# Vauxhall Vectra as a towing vehicle



## applecart14 (21 October 2011)

Anyone tow with a Vauxhall Vectra? We have a friend of the family who is selling a really nice example for a very fair price with a full service history and in show room condition.  Its a 54 plate 1.9L TDi 150H and it will be expected to tow a Rice Richardson trailer with a 700KG horse.  Its currently doing 50.3mph.

What are these cars like to tow with, anyone have any ideas?

I currently have a 2L Peugeot 406 TD with 130HP and manage okay except for long inclines when we struggle a little.  It does approx 40mpg, obviously a lot less when towing.  This has 20HP more and really has oomph.  And of course being diesel will be a dream to tow with.

We need to get a towbar fitted and are going to use the same people we used last time (CDF of Coventry).

ANy thoughts on this make of car, good or bad please?


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## Oldenburg (21 October 2011)

I thought it was illegal to tow with a car?? Could be wrong


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## dumpling (21 October 2011)

You need to look at it's towing capacity. Rice trailers are usually quite heavy.


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## dawny47 (21 October 2011)

Towed for years with a vectra with no problems but only a Ifor Williams Mare & Foal trailer (Single) with 550kg horse - take care your weight ratio is ok.


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## Bubbles (21 October 2011)

Pop into the towing clinic stickied in comp riders, you'll find out what you need to know. I'd be surprised if it's got a big enough max towing weight tbh.


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## Merry Crisis (21 October 2011)

Dont be ridiculous!


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## Alfiem (21 October 2011)

It would be fine for a 650kg single axle caravan, For a 950kg trailer with live load on board - No, We have a Vectra and I wouldn't dream of towing my Ifor with it, It has enough pulling power but I'd worry about braking and suspension, especially with the hills we have around us. I will never forget seeing the smashed up vectra and horse trailer after it snaked and turned over on the A27 at Hammerpot. I think you'd be over the towing capacity as well by the time you'd taken fuel and passengers into account, just not worth the risk.


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## dumpling (21 October 2011)

Saying that, I know a policewoman that towed her ID in an Ifor 505 with her vectra estate.... Clutch used to stink when she pulled out the drive.


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## Foxhunter49 (21 October 2011)

Most trailers weigh about 1.000kg - possibly more. If your horse is 600kg then you will be over weight and breaking the law.
I doubt if you are legal with your present vehicle.


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## cm2581 (21 October 2011)

From the limited info you have given about both cars, they both seem to have a legal towing capacity of 1500kg. Unless you have the small rosette trailer you currently are and still would be significantly over weight. If you do have the small rosette trailer and want to stick with a car for towing, the mondeo has the best towing capacity without going to a 4x4. If you have a larger trailer, there is nothing other than a medium to large sized 4x4 that will legally tow the horse and trailer.


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## Mithras (21 October 2011)

Although she could get a IW505 or similar trailer downrated and then possibly tow legally with a car this size.


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## sbloom (22 October 2011)

If you are towing with a car it is recommended you only tow 85% of the kerb weight so you would be well over that, even if legal (easy to google the towing limit of any car).  4x4s are specialist tow vehicles and can safely pull their full towing limit.


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## perfect11s (22 October 2011)

Mithras said:



			Although she could get a IW505 or similar trailer downrated and then possibly tow legally with a car this size.
		
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   I think you will find they have a B+E licence ..... so all that  matters is the weight the trailer weighs over the towing capacity of the car ....


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## sywell (22 October 2011)

Most modern cars have gear ratios that make them unsuitable for towing I had a 2.8 Turbo diesel Merc that overheated just over 40 mph with a trailer .


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## perfect11s (22 October 2011)

sbloom said:



			If you are towing with a car it is recommended you only tow 85% of the kerb weight so you would be well over that, even if legal (easy to google the towing limit of any car).  4x4s are specialist tow vehicles and can safely pull their full towing limit.
		
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 oh stop it !!!!!! there is a towing sticky on CR forum to avoid these stupid posts and give people the facts not urban myths!!!! please stop posting misinfomation...


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## perfect11s (22 October 2011)

sywell said:



			Most modern cars have gear ratios that make them unsuitable for towing I had a 2.8 Turbo diesel Merc that overheated just over 40 mph with a trailer .
		
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 LOL!!!!!!!


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## applecart14 (22 October 2011)

Oldenburg said:



			I thought it was illegal to tow with a car?? Could be wrong
		
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No its not illegal to tow with a car at all.  I've been towing my trailer with various horses/cars for 15 years.

Not everyone can afford to buy a 4x4.

We bought the lightest trailer we could find at the time (1996), researched heavily the towing capacity/weights/kerb side, etc with the car we had at the time (Sierra Sapphire) in conjunction with the police and DVLA and we have never been over the weight limit in *any* situation.  My trailer only takes one horse because of the way Dad has permanently altered the partition position to 3/4  /  1/4 in the horses favour.  I am a very safety concious person and there is no way we would endanger ourselves, my horse or other road users by being illegal.

I only asked if anyone towed with this make of car.  That was all.


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## sbloom (22 October 2011)

perfect11s said:



			oh stop it !!!!!! there is a towing sticky on CR forum to avoid these stupid posts and give people the facts not urban myths!!!! please stop posting misinfomation...
		
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Are you always this rude?

The 85% of kerb weight recommendation is from the caravan club who I reckon know their stuff about towing.  Are you saying that it is safer for ALL vehicles to tow only 85% of their kerb weight including 4x4s?  Or that car drivers should ignore the caravan club's advice?  Which they can do, as I said, they will still be legal.  Or perhaps their advice doesn't apply to horse trailers?  Which I reckon can be less stable than caravans, with their high and unstable centre of gravity (ie the horses affecting it).

Caravan Club website:

_The Club recommend, for safety and stability, that the laden weight of caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerbweight of the tow car. However, it is important that this figure does not exceed the car manufacturer&#8217;s towing limit, nor should it give rise to your outfit exceeding the plated train weight of the vehicle.

Experienced towers do sometimes go over the 85% ratio as it is not a legal requirement, but they should never go over 100%. You should always aim to achieve no more than the 85% ratio._

I did not, if you read again, state that it was illegal to tow more than 85% of the kerb weight.  And we've already had someone state that in the real world 4x4s have better gearboxes etc which are up to towing bigger weights - proportionate to their weight/size.


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## perfect11s (22 October 2011)

applecart14 said:



			No its not illegal to tow with a car at all.  I've been towing my trailer with various horses/cars for 15 years.

Not everyone can afford to buy a 4x4.

We bought the lightest trailer we could find at the time (1996), researched heavily the towing capacity/weights/kerb side, etc with the car we had at the time (Sierra Sapphire) in conjunction with the police and DVLA and we have never been over the weight limit in *any* situation.  My trailer only takes one horse because of the way Dad has permanently altered the partition position to 3/4  /  1/4 in the horses favour.  I am a very safety concious person and there is no way we would endanger ourselves, my horse or other road users by being illegal.

I only asked if anyone towed with this make of car.  That was all.
		
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 If you put the weights and details on the towing clinic you will get a defintive answer on the legality , best to ignore, alot of the replies  there are some stupid people with wierd ideas about towing despite so much correct  infomation  being avalible.... I dont think you will go far wrong with a vectra if you just want a bland cheap  practical mid size family car   they are as cheap as chips S/Hand   the bic pen of the car world  ..


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## perfect11s (22 October 2011)

sbloom said:



			Are you always this rude?

The 85% of kerb weight recommendation is from the caravan club who I reckon know their stuff about towing.  Are you saying that it is safer for ALL vehicles to tow only 85% of their kerb weight including 4x4s?  Or that car drivers should ignore the caravan club's advice?  Which they can do, as I said, they will still be legal.  Or perhaps their advice doesn't apply to horse trailers?  Which I reckon can be less stable than caravans, with their high and unstable centre of gravity (ie the horses affecting it).

Caravan Club website:

_The Club recommend, for safety and stability, that the laden weight of caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerbweight of the tow car. However, it is important that this figure does not exceed the car manufacturers towing limit, nor should it give rise to your outfit exceeding the plated train weight of the vehicle.

Experienced towers do sometimes go over the 85% ratio as it is not a legal requirement, but they should never go over 100%. You should always aim to achieve no more than the 85% ratio._

I did not, if you read again, state that it was illegal to tow more than 85% of the kerb weight.  And we've already had someone state that in the real world 4x4s have better gearboxes etc which are up to towing bigger weights - proportionate to their weight/size.
		
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 Yes I dont suffer fools that mislead  others  cause worry and stress to people who are towing legaly!!!!, I dont care what the beardy yogurt kniting types  at the caravan club say as advice!!! however having seen the antics of some caravaners its possibly spot on, if you want to tow two horses yes you need a big 4x4   .....and what will do a lot will do a little  so the bigger car you have the better ..... but there is no reason a normal car shouldent tow as long as the manufuctures recomendtions are followed...


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## sbloom (22 October 2011)

I never stated that cars could not tow!!  Please read posts before leaping down throats.  Whether they are beardy types or not  I think their advice is worth taking into consideration - if you want to save your clutch and gearbox AND be as safe as you can be.


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## applecart14 (22 October 2011)

perfect11s said:



			If you put the weights and details on the towing clinic you will get a defintive answer on the legality , best to ignore, alot of the replies  there are some stupid people with wierd ideas about towing despite so much correct  infomation  being avalible.... I dont think you will go far wrong with a vectra if you just want a bland cheap  practical mid size family car   they are as cheap as chips S/Hand   the bic pen of the car world  ..
		
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Thank you for that, yes I shall be sure to go on the towing clinic.  People seem to think you shouldn't tow anything other than with a 4 x 4.  What did people do in the dark ages before 4 x 4 's were actually popular???  I know... they used heavy diesel saloons 

  I am really excited about getting the Vectra.  Actually its not bland, or particularly cheap, its a really good model, the exec type with cruise control, heated seats, wing mirrors, 4 stack CD thingy, and six speed gear box and its really been looked after as its a family friend of my fathers who is selling it so it has full service history and is show room tidy inside and out.  Its just over seven years old.  It am sure it is a strong, safe, economical (if anything is these days!) and durable towing vehicle.


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## onlytheponely (22 October 2011)

Just had a quick look on the Vauxhall site for towing specs and, depending on exactly which model (estate?) the maximum tow weight for this vehicle is 1500-1600kg. 
You must bear in mind though that anything/anyone extra you have in the vehicle will be classed as laden weight too. 
So, unless your box is 700-800kg, it's only you in the vehicle with minimal tack, even then you are going to be on or over the vehicle manufacturers stated limits.


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## flying solo (22 October 2011)

Heated seats and multi disk changers have nothing to do with towing weights?!


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## Mithras (22 October 2011)

sywell said:



			Most modern cars have gear ratios that make them unsuitable for towing I had a 2.8 Turbo diesel Merc that overheated just over 40 mph with a trailer .
		
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Really?  I think it must have had an engine or gearbox problem, I've towed for years with various Merc E and S classes without anything like that.  Certainly had no problems accelerating uphill while towing.  The only diesel Merc I've ever had that overheated had a radiator leak which caused the torque converter to experience problems.  Nothing to do with the capacity of the vehicle.

Downrating the IW 505 effectively turns it into a spacious trailer with the capacity for only one horse.  When I got the trailer downrated, IW told me they had quite a lot of people doing this so they could tow with cars, and when I sold it, the people asked me to leave it downrated so they could do the same.

I also had a Jeep Grand Cherokee at one point, far preferred towing with a Mercedes S class out of all the vehicles I towed with.  The Jeep was far too powerful for the job and the S class was much smoother.  My last S class had the same engine as the Jeep (3.2 CDI), the one before had a 5l engine.  S classes also sometimes come with limited slip differential, which does give them good off road capability and better breaking and stability, so its not true to assume that all saloon cars are dangerous to tow with.  The Audi Allroad is another saloon that you can tow most trailers with.

OP - the Vectra is a good utility car, but you can also get V reg or older Merc E200s or 230s for around £600 - pretty reliable petrol engines (the diesel engines are more complex beasts).

However just to prove wrong the theory that you cannot tow legally with a saloon car ever, I think you will find that the Mercedes Maybach is legal in all towing aspects.  Not that you would really want to tow with it, but nevertheless...


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## perfect11s (22 October 2011)

onlytheponely said:



			Just had a quick look on the Vauxhall site for towing specs and, depending on exactly which model (estate?) the maximum tow weight for this vehicle is 1500-1600kg. 
You must bear in mind though that anything/anyone extra you have in the vehicle will be classed as laden weight too. 
So, unless your box is 700-800kg, it's only you in the vehicle with minimal tack, even then you are going to be on or over the vehicle manufacturers stated limits.
		
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 UM no the towing capacity is not the train weight or the gross weight!!! you do have to consider the train weight  but that should allow for a reasonable  load to be carryed in the car


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## perfect11s (22 October 2011)

Mithras said:



			Really?  I think it must have had an engine or gearbox problem, I've towed for years with various Merc E and S classes without anything like that.  Certainly had no problems accelerating uphill while towing.  The only diesel Merc I've ever had that overheated had a radiator leak which caused the torque converter to experience problems.  Nothing to do with the capacity of the vehicle.

Downrating the IW 505 effectively turns it into a spacious trailer with the capacity for only one horse.  When I got the trailer downrated, IW told me they had quite a lot of people doing this so they could tow with cars, and when I sold it, the people asked me to leave it downrated so they could do the same.

I also had a Jeep Grand Cherokee at one point, far preferred towing with a Mercedes S class out of all the vehicles I towed with.  The Jeep was far too powerful for the job and the S class was much smoother.  My last S class had the same engine as the Jeep (3.2 CDI), the one before had a 5l engine.  S classes also sometimes come with limited slip differential, which does give them good off road capability and better breaking and stability, so its not true to assume that all saloon cars are dangerous to tow with.  The Audi Allroad is another saloon that you can tow most trailers with.

OP - the Vectra is a good utility car, but you can also get V reg or older Merc E200s or 230s for around £600 - pretty reliable petrol engines (the diesel engines are more complex beasts).

However just to prove wrong the theory that you cannot tow legally with a saloon car ever, I think you will find that the Mercedes Maybach is legal in all towing aspects.  Not that you would really want to tow with it, but nevertheless...
		
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 Down rateing is only for licence purposes not to do with towing capacity so if you have a pre 97licence  or have taken a towing test for B+E  then  down rating design weight plates is about as much use as an ash tray on a motorcycle...


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## onlytheponely (22 October 2011)

From the Vauxhall website, this is for info only, please don't criticise me for reproducing the 'official' information from the manufacturer.

Vectra CDTi (150) 2005

Kerb weight 1430kg
Maximum Ball weight 78kg
MaximumTow weight 1600kg
85% weight 1215kg

Feel free to interpret it any way you choose but don't aim your criticisms at me, I have done my own research and I have a towing vehicle that is more than capable of the job I need mine for.


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## Mithras (22 October 2011)

Just had a look at my S class's specs.  It says its kerb weight is 1995kg, gross weight is 2550 kg, towing limit 2100kg.  That is for an S320CDI (the same engine as in the 4 x 4 S class and the Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.2CDI), an older S500 would be heavier with a slightly higher towing limit.

For the E class, kerb weight is 1735kg, braked towing capacity 1.900kg.  Again, older models are heavier and with a slightly greater towing capacity.

Both below what you can legally tow a IW505 with, unless you have it downrated.  Which incidentally costs about £35 and involves sticking a plate on it with the weight you can legally tow.

The "85% rule" is a misnomer.  It is not a rule but a guideline, and of persuasive value only, in the same way that the Highway Code is.  ie it is not primary or even secondary legislation but has the same status a voluntary code of practice, in fact, probably not even that because its not widely enough adopted as any kind of industry standard or general knowledge to be a custom of trade.


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## Mithras (22 October 2011)

I always felt far safer towing with my S class than I did with the Jeep Grand Cherokee, which as I say, was far too powerful for the job.  Even when I towed with the E class, I once had to do an emergency stop on the motorway when a car ran into the one in front.  It stopped smoothly, quickly and in a straight line with no jacknifing or skidding.  It was a good car for towing with, never gave the slightest problem.  Now I have a 3.5 tonne lorry uprated to 3.9 tonnes.  No doubt however some busybody will take great delight on informing me of the dangers and follies of using such a vehicle as well.  Best all stay at home, eh?


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## DougalJ (22 October 2011)

Good old H&H forum living up to its reputation! I cannot comment on this topic as no experience in towing....just reading posts with....hmm interest!


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## ROG (22 October 2011)

onlytheponely said:



			From the Vauxhall website, this is for info only, please don't criticise me for reproducing the 'official' information from the manufacturer.

Vectra CDTi (150) 2005

Kerb weight 1430kg
Maximum Ball weight 78kg
MaximumTow weight 1600kg
85% weight 1215kg

Feel free to interpret it any way you choose but don't aim your criticisms at me, I have done my own research and I have a towing vehicle that is more than capable of the job I need mine for.
		
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The 85% of the unladen weight is a recommendation for towing caravans but the original idea of the 85% was for the loaded trailer not to be more than 85% of the actual weight of the towing vehilce
This was a safety thing as it is easier to control a lighter trailer with a heavier vehicle which makes logical sense

Recently some 4x4s have been produced which weigh much less than what they can tow but they have been designed to do that - a bit like a car transporter which has a little truck pulling a much heavier trailer without being articulated (using a fifth wheel)

There is a difference between the way a caravan and other types of trailers such as horsebox trailers react when being towed so the recommended safety rules differ

Using a FWD or RWD vehicle also makes a difference

For this vehicle -
Licence held = ??
Kerb weight = 1430kg
MaximumTow weight = 1600kg
GVW = ??

I would need the GVW and what licence is being used to determine what the trailer could be legally used


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## ROG (22 October 2011)

Mithras said:



			Just had a look at my S class's specs.  It says its kerb weight is 1995kg, gross weight is 2550 kg, towing limit 2100kg.  That is for an S320CDI (the same engine as in the 4 x 4 S class and the Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.2CDI), an older S500 would be heavier with a slightly higher towing limit.

For the E class, kerb weight is 1735kg, braked towing capacity 1.900kg.  Again, older models are heavier and with a slightly greater towing capacity.

Both below what you can legally tow a IW505 with, unless you have it downrated.  Which incidentally costs about £35 and involves sticking a plate on it with the weight you can legally tow.
		
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Kerb = 1995
GVW = 2550
Towing limit = 2100
With a B licence you must not have a trailer over 950 plated MAM because of the 3500 GVW+MAM limit (2550+950=3500)
With a B+E licence you can have a trailer plated at 3500 MAM provided that the empty trailer plus the load does not exceed the towing capacity of 2100


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## Merry Crisis (22 October 2011)

perfect11s said:



			Yes I dont suffer fools that mislead  others  cause worry and stress to people who are towing legaly!!!!, I dont care what the beardy yogurt kniting types  at the caravan club say as advice!!! however having seen the antics of some caravaners its possibly spot on, if you want to tow two horses yes you need a big 4x4   .....and what will do a lot will do a little  so the bigger car you have the better ..... but there is no reason a normal car shouldent tow as long as the manufuctures recomendtions are followed...
		
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This has made me laugh, you might just put Jeremy Clarkson out of a job perfect11s. I agree completely.


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## ROG (22 October 2011)

The one and only reason to reduce the trailer MAM plate is to fit in with the rules on B licence towing

When towing with a B+E licence there is NEVER a reason to do so unless the trailer is over 3500 MAM

Trailers over 3500 MAM enter the commercial rules


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## redmerl (22 October 2011)

Would go Ford over Vauxhall any day. Horrid drive and the Mondeo tows loads better


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## Jazzy B (22 October 2011)

DougalJ said:



			Good old H&H forum living up to its reputation! I cannot comment on this topic as no experience in towing....just reading posts with....hmm interest!
		
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ditto!


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## applecart14 (25 October 2011)

flying solo said:



			Heated seats and multi disk changers have nothing to do with towing weights?!
		
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I was responding to the scathing comment about the Vauxhall Vectra being bland and cheap.  Read the post properly or don't bother commenting.

And if you'd bothered to read my post you would see that I had the lightest weight trailer on the market at the time (lighter than the ifor williams) AND i only tow *ONE* horse.


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## sane_and_sensible (25 October 2011)

it is very simple.

Assuming the info on your car is correct, you can tow upto 1600kg.

Your horse weighs 700kg.

That leaves 900kg.

So, if your trailer, empty weighs less than 900kg, then yes, you can legally tow with the vectra.  If the trailer weighs more than 900kg, then no, you cannot.

Don't forget if you carry hay / water etc in the trailer you need to add those weights into your calcs.

(The above is given assuming you have either a pre-1997 license OR have taken your B+E test).

That is the legal point of view.  Of course whether or not it is sensible is entirely your decision.  Personally i would NOT want to tow a trailer with an unstable load / load that can move with a vehicle that weighs less than that load - but it is not illegal.  So thats where your choice comes in.


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## applecart14 (25 October 2011)

perfect11s said:



			oh stop it !!!!!! there is a towing sticky on CR forum to avoid these stupid posts and give people the facts not urban myths!!!! please stop posting misinfomation...
		
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Sorry for ignorance what is CR forum and can someone kindly send me a link.
Thanks so much xx


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## applecart14 (25 October 2011)

sane_and_sensible said:



			it is very simple.

Assuming the info on your car is correct, you can tow upto 1600kg.

Your horse weighs 700kg.

That leaves 900kg.

So, if your trailer, empty weighs less than 900kg, then yes, you can legally tow with the vectra.  If the trailer weighs more than 900kg, then no, you cannot.

Don't forget if you carry hay / water etc in the trailer you need to add those weights into your calcs.

(The above is given assuming you have either a pre-1997 license OR have taken your B+E test).

That is the legal point of view.  Of course whether or not it is sensible is entirely your decision.  Personally i would NOT want to tow a trailer with an unstable load / load that can move with a vehicle that weighs less than that load - but it is not illegal.  So thats where your choice comes in.
		
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Thank you.  And yes the trailer does weigh less than 900kg unladen.
And yes its perfectly sensible to tow with the car if the driver is sensible and experienced with towing, can read the road ahead (i.e adjust the speed and braking distance in accordance with hazards) and has a horse which is sensible and experienced to tow.  And I'm all of those.  And Bailey has approx 300 trailer trips under his belt, so I guess you could say he is too.


Thank you for your time.


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## perfect11s (25 October 2011)

applecart14 said:



			Sorry for ignorance what is CR forum and can someone kindly send me a link.
Thanks so much xx
		
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sorry It's in competition riders , pesonaly as a mecanical minded person  this towing with a car isnt safe posts is rubbish  asuming a simalar kerb weight to a small 4x4 and you are towing within what the manufacture recomends as a load then its posibly safer than the 4x4!! ie it has  lower center of gravity, road tyres etc ,the problems with a car are more to do with traction on a muddy field and not having a low range gear box  so if you are manuvering  on a slope  the clutch is going to get a beating  ...


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## redcascade (25 October 2011)

Someone at the yard I'm at used to tow with a Vectra Estate, Ifor 505 with a 15.1hh cob and 16hh ISH and seemed to manage fine. Like others are saying though, check the towing capacity


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## Spotsrock (25 October 2011)

friends mom toes a 15.1 in a single trailer in a vectra no problems.


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## lialls (25 October 2011)

Lets get something straight, excuatually how much does your trailer weigh unladen?


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## lilaclomax (25 October 2011)

I did lots of research into towing cars after my licence was downgraded (medical reasons)... I needed a combination that would tow my 920kg Fautras with my 365kg boy (weighed on scales) and sometimes my 285kg boy (weigh tape). I looked into Vauxhalls, Audis, Mercs, Fords, Pugs, Citroens etc... The Peugeots and Citroens only towed up to 1500kg, the Vetra used to tow up to 1600kg but the ones I looked at only went to 1500kg too, and the others I looked at up to 1800kg - I chose the Mondeo as the extra 200kg gave me that extra security and it also meant we could get a better, newer model with all the extras you mentioned without breaking the bank!

My suggestion would be to triple check all your figures for the sake of your horse and go for the biggest towing weight you can get, as Tesco says, every little helps especially when it comes to those we love.


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## lilaclomax (25 October 2011)

lialls said:



			Lets get something straight, excuatually how much does your trailer weigh unladen?
		
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My guess would be a Cheval Liberte weighing either 765kg or 830kg? 

Applecart14 - another thing to keep in mind is the weight of the towing vehicle (1525kg?) and make sure the trailer and cargo do not exceed this


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## Mithras (25 October 2011)

ROG said:



			Kerb = 1995
GVW = 2550
Towing limit = 2100
With a B licence you must not have a trailer over 950 plated MAM because of the 3500 GVW+MAM limit (2550+950=3500)
With a B+E licence you can have a trailer plated at 3500 MAM provided that the empty trailer plus the load does not exceed the towing capacity of 2100
		
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I agree.  Hate to point out the obvious, but this also means that anyone with a B license and a large 4 x 4 is going to exceed the MAM rule as well.  However if they towed a light trailer with a supermini, they would most likely not.  

Impossibility is a defence...I'm not aware of any case law to give a clear interpretation of how the authorities intend to enforce this.  

It all arose because the Government failed to secure an opt out for the UK regarding the relevant European regulation - on the Continent, trailers tend to be lighter and smaller, and more often single horse only, but the UK market is dominated by more substantial double horse trailers.


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## Flashpaddler (25 October 2011)

On the continent, the most common way of moving a horse is via a trailer and a car.  I have a lightweight trailer, a 16H TB and a BMW 320d estate.  We're very careful with what we carry but have towed successfully for 3 years. I had the car remapped at a cost of £200 and now average 38mpg whilst towing, thanks to the extra torque, and have 185bhp available (up from 150).  Without the hoss, I get 65mpg on a run at motorway speeds.  This has made a huge difference to our competition costs and made events further away viable.  We have limited funds and this has kept us regularly competing compared to the costs of a lorry. The car is also so usable outside of equestrianism.


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## applecart14 (26 October 2011)

lialls said:



			Lets get something straight, excuatually how much does your trailer weigh unladen?
		
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I've just found out it weighs 650KG unladen.  That 250KG under.

So basically my tack, hay, saddle and bridle and water need to weigh under 250KG to be inside.

And a website I found yesterday actually says that although it the towing weights are there on display (if you can find them lol) they are manufacturers guidelines only and they are not legalitys as such.


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## ROG (26 October 2011)

applecart14 said:



			And a website I found yesterday actually says that although it the towing weights are there on display (if you can find them lol) they are manufacturers guidelines only and they are not legalitys as such.
		
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And yet those are the weights which the authorities will go by if a prosecution is to take place so I would not rely on them being just a 'guide'

If there was a legal challenge to refute that then it would have happened by now and be in caselaw


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## perfect11s (26 October 2011)

applecart14 said:



			I've just found out it weighs 650KG unladen.  That 250KG under.

So basically my tack, hay, saddle and bridle and water need to weigh under 250KG to be inside.

And a website I found yesterday actually says that although it the towing weights are there on display (if you can find them lol) they are manufacturers guidelines only and they are not legalitys as such.
		
Click to expand...

 You may be right as nothing under 3500kg is legaly plated for weight , I had a long chat with a fella at the Dpt for tranport about  about american trailers and this was one of the things that came up , however if  the police think you are useing a car and trailer and it's not in a safe condition ie exceeding the design weights and it ends up in court I think you will have a problem !!!same if you need to make an insurance claim so best to stay with what the manufacture recomends unless you have a Very good lawyer and deep pockets....


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## applecart14 (26 October 2011)

Oh I agree with the fact that if you are overweight you may be able to stop.  You may be able to tow.  But if you had an accident and wrote off your car and your horse you wouldn't be covered if they found you were overweight and therefore wouldn't get a penny.

That's why I was really anal about trying to find out about the trailer weights all those years ago and how we didn't really listen to the policeman that said that if we put a concrete slab in our boot it would 'even everything up'!!!!


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## Mithras (26 October 2011)

ROG said:



			If there was a legal challenge to refute that then it would have happened by now and be in caselaw
		
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Not necessarily.  There have been relatively few prosecutions, and of those you would need to find that combination of circumstances which produced someone who challenged in court, with a very good lawyer and willing to appeal and bear the costs of doing so.  You would be surprised what illegalities and impossibilities there are in law which are never challenged in court (breaches of European competition law and abuse of dominant positions by QUANGOs is one good example).


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## meandmyself (26 October 2011)

applecart14 said:



			I've just found out it weighs 650KG unladen.  That 250KG under.

*So basically my tack, hay, saddle and bridle and water need to weigh under 250KG to be inside.*

And a website I found yesterday actually says that although it the towing weights are there on display (if you can find them lol) they are manufacturers guidelines only and they are not legalitys as such.
		
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That weight includes you and anything you have in the car, too.


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## perfect11s (27 October 2011)

meandmyself said:



			That weight includes you and anything you have in the car, too.
		
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 No it dosent  unless you are working out your towing capacity from the GTW ...


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## applecart14 (27 October 2011)

meandmyself said:



			That weight includes you and anything you have in the car, too.
		
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Well I'm stuffed then aren't I!

Just had a Big Mac!


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