# Sick to death of my horsebox, swap to big trailer?



## kerilli (25 August 2010)

Advice please, has anyone else done this?
I have a 3-horse 04 Eurocargo, my third, with lovely living etc etc. Unfortunately the engine has just blown up, in spite of just being serviced and plated, regular runs, me spending fortunes on the effing thing) and I have just HAD IT with it. I very rarely stay over in it anyway, and would be happy slumming it in a trailer (or finding a local b&b tbh, if it was freezing) anyway!
So, am very seriously contemplating selling it, selling my nice little car, and probably getting a Landcruiser and either a 3-horse or a 4-horse Fautras Oblic trailer (herringbone travel for horses etc etc.)
The thing is, that way i'll have tons of room for horses and kit, be legally able to carry 3 (unlike in horsebox), it should cost waay less per year, etc etc.
Got to shell out for new engine in ****ing horsebox first, obviously. Argh. Argh. Argh.
Comments, thoughts, anything, please?!


----------



## TheoryX1 (25 August 2010)

Ouch, I feel your pain.  Firstly, I do envy the lorry owning horse owner, but there is a flip side to everything.  IF you say you dont stay overnight much, and you will have much more room with a big trailer then why not?  You will save a total fortune on it.  OK I have to get my 4 x 4 serviced etc, and we have my trusty Ifor Williams 510 serviced each year, but I am sure it is far cheaper than running a lorry plus a trailer does not (usually) have too much to go wrong on it.  We even managed to take Mini TX, her best mate, myself, horse and masses of kit to the PC National Champs a couple of weeks ago with just my trailer and my Shogun SWB piled high.  We did stay in a nice hotel though.

Saying that though, I am seriously having to consider a lorry, but will resist the urge for as long as I can.


----------



## druid (25 August 2010)

I guess you need to add up the running costs of a jeep day to day and compare it to you lorry plus smaller car? 

I have a big 4x4 (Nissan Patrol) and a big trailer (Equitrek ShowTrekka L) and love it, I like having a jeep day to day for feed runs and general driving though


----------



## Chloe_GHE (25 August 2010)

We are just going exactly the other way selling big Ifor looking for 6T 2 horse lorry, but that's mainly a safety issue, fed up of idiots overtaking us dangerously, and high winds in trailer not much fun, also it's cheaper to have 1 lorry between me and my mum, me pass my HGV then have several 4x4s and insurance going on etc....

I think you would copy very well with a big trailer, we have and like you said b&b or slum it or even pitch a tent! 

Hope the new engine doesn't cost too much


----------



## teapot (25 August 2010)

One of my colleagues is thinking of ditching her lorry for exact the same reasons and just running a trailer (already has the 4x4) so I can see the logic (having been with her in the lorry).

I just loathe trailers for the over-turning risk but having had a quick google they look pretty sturdy compared to an Ifor.


----------



## kit279 (25 August 2010)

Do you really want to be able to carry 3?  I ask because I seriously considered a lorry but could not make it add up versus my LPG Jeep and Equitrek.  The horses travel really well, it tows beautifully and contrary to HHO urban legend, I've not had any problem with the build quality.  The nicest thing is that I can pick it up and put it down without it seizing or going flat.  No contest in my opinion.


----------



## Slinkyunicorn (25 August 2010)

We have done the lorry thing and have gone back to a trailer. In the end it was the cost of maintaining the lorries that finished us of with them - every time they went to be plated there was always something that needed doing and always seemed to cost around 1k despite regular servicing etc etc. 

Between my sister and I we now have a lovely new trailer and we each have a car we can tow with. I have an old Trooper which is great and can easily tow trailer, two big horses and all the tack etc without breaking a sweat! It cost me £400 for a sevice, MOT and a few repairs this year instead of 1k!

Good luck with sorting your lorry out.


----------



## kerilli (25 August 2010)

Yes, being able to carry 3 would be perfect tbh. 
i've been told the stabilising bars make things much better with trailers, never used one though.
I do very low mileage in my car (work from home, often do higher annual mileage in lorry!) so am not worried about running costs of a big car. Even the high road tax of the Landcruiser would be a doddle compared to the cost of getting the horsebox through its plating every year, plus its own road tax, etc etc. i'll have a look at the Equitreks at Burghley, kit, thanks!


----------



## *hic* (25 August 2010)

post redundant in view of my slow typing and later information!


----------



## *hic* (25 August 2010)

A brief further comment. Watching the 6-wheeled EquiTrek in front of me and the lorries in front of that on the slow crawl out of Blackwater Farm today I was appalled at the quality of the ride in the EquiTrek. It wriggled and jiggled and rocked and rolled in a way the lorries just didn't seem to. I was in a normal car at the time.


----------



## druid (25 August 2010)

I have an EquiTrek....I've been (locked) in the back while shifting it around the yard (the joys of a younger brother with the keys!)....I found it very hard to discern if it was being pulled forwards or reversing due to the smooth ride. Mine has 4 wheels though, don't know if it makes a difference


----------



## Honey08 (25 August 2010)

I've been desperate for a lorry for years, and my husband (a mechanic) says it would cost loads more!  We have a livery with an equitrek, and he has fixed bits and bobs on it for her, and says its not very well made, or half as strong as an Ifor - thats how they can get a bigger trailer (ie with living and tackrooms etc) to weigh the same as a smaller one..

We looked at 3 horse trailers at an agricultural show (ifor) but it wouldn't take 3 large horses - only 3 under 15h I think, which was no good for us.  I'd be interested to hear of any others you have looked into..x


----------



## kerilli (25 August 2010)

Honey08, have a look at this for example:
http://www.jswhorseboxes.co.uk/horse-trailers-jean-luc-fautras-oblic4.php
and
http://www.tallyhotrailers.co.uk/whyfautras.html
if you do a search, there are other posts about them. i'm going to have a look at them and report back if you like!


----------



## Mrs_Wishkabibble (25 August 2010)

jemima_too said:



			A brief further comment. Watching the 6-wheeled EquiTrek in front of me and the lorries in front of that on the slow crawl out of Blackwater Farm today I was appalled at the quality of the ride in the EquiTrek. It wriggled and jiggled and rocked and rolled in a way the lorries just didn't seem to. I was in a normal car at the time.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but would have to disagree, we have the 3 axle one and it does not do that at all. The one you were following probably had either incorrect tyre pressures or a vehicle not up to pulling it.

We used to have an Ifor and although it was much lighter to tow it did snake a bit but our Equitrek does not do this.


----------



## tantallon (25 August 2010)

Hi Kerelli,
I am sort of swithering about the same thing but I am going from an equitrek (which has been fab) to something that will carry three horses.Mentioned to my mechanic who is excellent and very experienced, that I was thinking of changing it for a 3 horse trailer (fautras or similar) and he was horrified. Told me if I did he would have nothing to do with servicing it for me - reason being he says that no matter the legalities of it - if you get into trouble with a fully laden three horse trailer, no 4x4 on the planet he says is going to brake properly or get you out of the s*** with that much weight behind it. Reckoned that they were very unsafe and that I would be nuts to go down that route. Quite put me off so he did.
Now back to square one in my thinking and thinking its going to have to be a lorry * sighs


----------



## Honey08 (25 August 2010)

Thanks Kerilli. Very interesting. We've decided to stick with the 510 anyway - son is rapidly growing out of his pony, so we hope to get him onto horses next year, and share two horses, which makes life much easier!

I remember seeing some American 3-horse trailers on display at Kelsall Hill BE a couple of years ago.  They were heavier duty (and much stronger said husband-mechanic) and attached to a pick up truck with a hydraulic (Ithink) link.  The attachment was in the middle of the pick up truck (one of those american trucks with two rows of seats that are really popular now..) and hubby said that it would be much more powerful, and stable that way - his mechanic head was quite impressed with it.  I used to be on a livery yard that parked caravans too, and someone had a huge long cravan that attached in the same way.  Sorry I can't remember the name - not much use really!!


----------



## kerilli (25 August 2010)

ah, tantallon, that's interesting. must admit, i thought the Landcruiser Amazon could hold it, friend has one and uses it to tow his big JCB on a trailer everywhere... god knows what that weighs.
Honey08, i'm considering those too, i know they're hugely popular in the States and attach much more securely than with a tow ball. I'll keep looking. Thanks! I might even contact the Kelsall organisers and see if they have the details...


----------



## lucemoose (25 August 2010)

now ok...although the wheel fell off my equitrek last week-currently being looked into! I have to say I love my trailer and so does every horse, even a few bad travellers and loaders that have ridden in it.
I originally wanted an Obliq3 but went to look at them and they were so dark inside and quite claustrophobic that we went for the equitrek.
I am unsure of legalities and weights etc but have to say I much prefer the french 3 horse trailers- is it cheval liberte or bateson? very wide and much brighter in a strange way.
its a shame that although pick ups are becoming more popular as work and commercial vehicals that we dont have any gooseneck trailers nor mounts in this country.


----------



## tantallon (25 August 2010)

Kerelli if you do get a contact for gooseneck trailers over here could you post it please as have also looked into those a little. Can't just import one though as most of them are wider apparently than is legal over here. This could be rubbish of course but have reliably been told that by a couple of folks. But I also think that they are a great idea.


----------



## Honey08 (25 August 2010)

I just found the programme for 2008 for Kelsall Hill events hoping that there would be an ad in it, but there isn't..sorry.


----------



## TarrSteps (25 August 2010)

Hmm . . . I come from the land of giant trailers  and I would be VERY leery of pulling a 3 horse tagalong (what we call a ball hitch in the New World).  I wouldn't pull a 4, tbh.  You do see tagalong stock trailers that long and I have seen slant load 3 horse ones but generally, you never see anything larger than a 2 as you lose a lot on stability and safety.  Anything larger (and quite a lot of 2 horse ones as well) are 5th wheel or gooseneck, pulled with a pick up.  I don't know what the towing regs would allow here but generally, if you're pulling 3+ you're also looking at at least a 3/4 ton truck as well.  (Given shorter distances, fewer long gradients here, there might be a bit more leeway.)  No idea how a Land Cruiser would compare as have only seen them pulling 2 but they might be rated for more.

All that said, as above, I think a lot of gooseneck/5th wheel trailers would simply be too big to be practical in the UK.  There are some smaller ones to be had, to be sure, but obviously North American "standard" might not mean the same here!

(I miss my Dodge pick up and the extra high/wide gooseneck with tack room sooooooo much.  )


----------



## ironhorse (26 August 2010)

Most gooseneck trailers are illegal in the UK (too wide/heavy).

There is a company that is having a 'bumper pull' trailer built on the same lines but UK legal (HUT I think they're called) but this is with luxury living and just 2 horses.
A friend had the 3 horse Equitrek (Multitrekka) and liked it a lot, but it does need a big Disco or Landcruiser to pull it and the fuel is pricey - plus she never had more than 2 horses in it.
There's a Fautras Oblic for sale on Tally Ho's website but it has had living built in the front and is 2 horse.
Sadly I'm inclined to agree that if you want to transport 3 or 4 horses a lorry is the only way forward.
We've just sold our lorry - a tough decision cos I loved it and now I'm panicking about fitting everything for this weekend's show into the equitrek and disco 
But the running costs for even our lorry - which was really reliable - just didn't stack up for one or two horses.


----------



## icestationzebra (26 August 2010)

Quick question:  if you needed a 7.5t to travel 3 what payload would you be looking for?


----------



## OneInAMillion (26 August 2010)

Plus the driveway at Blackwater Farm is fairly hideous!


----------



## Elsbells (26 August 2010)

This post is very intresting and I'm sorry if I am hijacking it but it looks like a good place to ask?

My mare hates my friends very nice bateman trailer and refuses to get in, infact I am sure that she just dislikes trailers full stop. I also think she doesn't like travelling forwards and that she feels claustophobic as we have no trouble getting her into a lorry?

My OH has suggested that I get a cheap lorry. What would you guys reccommend please? 

Small 2 horse, cheap to buy and to run please.
I'm an ambitious happy hacker.


----------



## nic85 (26 August 2010)

kerilli said:



			Advice please, has anyone else done this?
I have a 3-horse 04 Eurocargo, my third, with lovely living etc etc. Unfortunately the engine has just blown up, in spite of just being serviced and plated, regular runs, me spending fortunes on the effing thing) and I have just HAD IT with it. I very rarely stay over in it anyway, and would be happy slumming it in a trailer (or finding a local b&b tbh, if it was freezing) anyway!
So, am very seriously contemplating selling it, selling my nice little car, and probably getting a Landcruiser and either a 3-horse or a 4-horse Fautras Oblic trailer (herringbone travel for horses etc etc.)
The thing is, that way i'll have tons of room for horses and kit, be legally able to carry 3 (unlike in horsebox), it should cost waay less per year, etc etc.
Got to shell out for new engine in ****ing horsebox first, obviously. Argh. Argh. Argh.
Comments, thoughts, anything, please?!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear your engine gone bang  

My friend has a Fautras Oblic 2 and a Mitsubishi L200 Animal and is JUST legal weight wise....(but thats with 2 chubby cobs  ) Not sure on weight limit on a landcruiser, the only 4x4s I know can tow alot are Discoverys.
Good luck trailer and 4x4 hunting!


----------



## RW1 (26 August 2010)

For engines a cheap option is www.findanengine.co.uk

I did this recently when my car engine (renault clio- so to be expected really) blew up -  only 2 weeks out of warranty  despite owning from new with proper renualt full servicing and maintenance etc. Couldnt be bothered with a fight with Renault so sourced the engine for £250.00 via above had it delivered to local and trusted garage on a pallet- they then fitted - I know it was for a car but it worked out at just under £900.00 including engine and labour to fit - it took them 3 days -which I was able to live with. Renault conicidently wanted to charge me closer to £5,000.00! For a car that has three main journeys - to the station, to the yard, to horse shops - I wasnt prepared to do it. 

The bonus was the new engine only had 20,000 miles on it when it was fitted. .  

I dont know how easy it is to source Iveco engines but may be worth a try.


----------



## ihatework (26 August 2010)

I'm afraid I wouldn't even contemplate towing a large 3 horse trailer.

I fully understand your reasons for downgrading but if you genuinely will be travelling 3 on a regular basis then I'd stick with a lorry.

My friend has a 2 x 17.2hh rear facing equitrek with living for sale (she is actually upgrading!) and can pass on details of that if interested.


----------



## kerilli (26 August 2010)

thanks everyone, that's really helpful. I didn't realise the American/Canadian type trailers (floats? is that what they call them?) are so wide. Drats.
i'd usually only be carrying one or two, maybe 3 in exceptional circumstances... but no, obviously not a good idea. Drats.
Right, big 2 horse trailer with living and tons of space I guess. Or, a full 3 horse trailer but only ever put 2 horses in it? My 'stuff' won't weigh loads but will take up lots of space!
As far as I can see, the Landcruiser Amazon weighs about 2.5 tonnes unladen kerb weight, and has a towing capacity of 3.5 tonnes (they say...)

the Fautras trailers have their own braking system I believe, and special suspension... 

I wish i'd never sold my last lorry, it was such a good runner and never let me down. this one is a chuffing nightmare, it's NOT old and has already cost me thousands this year, it had full diagnostics a couple of months ago and they couldn't find anything, and now this happens... argh.


----------



## *hic* (26 August 2010)

Mrs_Wishkabibble said:



			Sorry but would have to disagree, we have the 3 axle one and it does not do that at all. The one you were following probably had either incorrect tyre pressures or a vehicle not up to pulling it.

We used to have an Ifor and although it was much lighter to tow it did snake a bit but our Equitrek does not do this.
		
Click to expand...

Have you followed yours following lorries in order to observe the difference? 



OneInAMillion said:



			Plus the driveway at Blackwater Farm is fairly hideous!
		
Click to expand...

Precisely, and from my viewpoint the Equitrek looked really shaky and rolly whereas the lorries - 7.5 tonners - looked quite reasonable. I've mainly been up there in a lorry before and haven't noticed the track anything like as much as in a vehicle with small wheels.

Of course mainly one would be towing on smooth roads, unless you live in the Fens near me where the roads are often dreadful, but should you hit a bumpy  patch the ride on the EquiTrek does not look good to me.

But each to their own, life would be so boring if everyone agreed


----------



## kit279 (26 August 2010)

The other thing to remember about those American/North American (Tarrsteps ) goose-neck trailers that tow with a pick up is that all the engine weight in a pick up is at the front.  My old Canadian friend said she had seen a couple of pickup/trailer combos jack-knife in the middle if the trailer is loaded at the back.

If you want to have a whizz in my ancient but reliable 4x4 and Equitrek, you are most welcome.  I wouldn't necessarily shell out for a brand new one - the way I see it is that with second-hand ones, the owners already know about any little problems and with VAT on the up, it doesn't make sense.  I do recommend a Jeep though - they are heavy, really tow and are proper workhorses.  Ours has a heavy duty towbar and reinforced rear suspension which made for a smoother ride for the horses.  I plan to drive mine until it dies and then get a new one - the plan might also include a slightly bigger Equitrek to accommodate my over-sized black horse!


----------



## kerilli (26 August 2010)

which Jeep have you got, please, Kit? I was thinking of the Landcruiser Amazon because a friend used to have one to tow his huge JCB around on a trailer, and in fact he pulled my 7.5 tonne horsebox (my first one) once when it broke down on the hill of the driveway at home... now, that was impressive.
I really don't fancy the Equitreks, have had a good look around them and they just didn't seem solid enough imho, although they look lovely.
I hear Isuzu Troopers are good towing vehicles too. Any advice welcome please... other than "give up now before chucking more money down the drain..."


----------



## Mike007 (26 August 2010)

Sorry to hear about your engine problems,what actualy went wrong?Modern engines are incredibly reliable normaly.


----------



## kit279 (26 August 2010)

I've got an ancient Jeep Stealth which is basically a blacked out (pimped up but not alas by me!) version of the Jeep Cherokee.  The newer ones are the Jeep Grand Cherokee and they'd be what I'd go for next time round.


----------



## dixie (26 August 2010)

This will help you with towing capabilities.
http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/towing_vehicles.htm


----------



## flyingfeet (26 August 2010)

kerilli I think it may be good money after bad even if you do swap!

Land Cruisers - my parents just had to replace the brake calipers on their 6 year old from new only done 25k miles land cruiser. Its a known fault!

Izuzus also blow up, so be very careful, as unless you can buy a young one under warranty, people usually get rid of them when their is a problem! 

Also as a side note a farmer I know was towing a plough with the land cruiser amazon, right on the limit it could tow (3.5t) and he blew the engine up, however did do lots of miles with it.

My suggestion is get a new engine for your lorry if you are happy with the body.


----------



## kerilli (26 August 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Sorry to hear about your engine problems,what actualy went wrong?Modern engines are incredibly reliable normaly.
		
Click to expand...

You'll wish you'd never asked...!
last summer on the way back from Burgie it was surging and then underrevving, irrespective of what i was doing to the accelerator, but i managed to nurse it home. had it fully checked out immediately, they said it ran fine for them, then said it needed a new clutch so it had one. (it wasn't doing this when changing gear though...)
it wasn't really used at all during winter, spring and summer due to my injury but i made sure it went for a run every week or two, as ordered by mechanics.
i lent it to friends a few months ago, it went a bit weird for them (lights flashing on and off, then conked out) and i managed to talk them through how to start it again. 
as a precaution, had garage out to do fully diagnostic check on it (linked up computer etc etc) but found nothing...
it had full service for plating 2 months ago, blew back brakes during the test, had to be rescued... HUGE bill.
i used it in the interim a few times, incl to Twemlows and back (3-4 hour journey) and it ran like a dream.
friends borrowed it a few weeks ago, it ran beautifully there, they dropped horse off, drove out of drive up road, and it hugely over-revved, tons of black smoke poured out. driver stopped it immediately, waited a bit, then tried to start it, no go. no warning lights on at all...
i went over and tried, no good, called rescue... initially thought it was the turbo, no luck, dragged it to my usual garage (big commercial place).
mechanics found a melted and a broken injector. replaced all injectors. got it going, ran it for 5 mins, then it went bang, blew a rod straight through the engine block.
so, new engine required.
I am GUTTED, i can't believe i spent so much on this lorry, called the garage every time it seemed wrong, and it still blew up. 
any advice hugely appreciated. 
i'm going to have to sell it to pay for engine replacement, basically..
choices so far: used engine (3month warranty) £3k ish, recon engine 6k ish, new engine 8k ish, all plus labour and VAT of about 3k...
Help Help Help. Please!


----------



## Rana (26 August 2010)

QR

Can't help you on the towing, but if you quite like the Lancruiser, don't rule out a Toyoya Surf.  Mine is fab, I love it to bits.  It's a bit less....agricultural than a LC, but a similar size and only slightly lighter.  It's a similar size to a long wheel base Shogun, but known for being more reliable (and I think the Shogun is known for it's reliability anyway!).  The UK version is the 4-Runner, but they're hard to find (and pricey) 2nd hand.  The Surf is the Japanese import.  They're based on the notoriously indestructible Hilux pick up, and are basically a 5 door estate version of that.  Mine is badged as a Hilux Surf, but later versions just as a Surf.


----------



## alwaysbroke (26 August 2010)

Crikey mosses K what a story, mega sympathies!

Cant help with  trailer ideas, but we do have a Ford pickup, it getting on a bit but has been a great work horse.  (it was suggested when we bought it that we had an American trailer set up of the horses, but think some of ours are just too big for a trailer, so didnt bother following it up) Have recently seen, while out driving the larger versions of pickup with a goose neck trailer, but it contained motor bikes and living. So they are making it into the country, will keep a look out and see  if we can come up with anything


----------



## OliveOyl (26 August 2010)

I blew an engine up in a Leyland Daf 2 years ago, admittedly was an older vehicle than yours, was a 1995 vehicle, but was £1300 for a recon engine fully fitted.


----------



## Clarew22 (26 August 2010)

Rana said:



			QR

Can't help you on the towing, but if you quite like the Lancruiser, don't rule out a Toyoya Surf.  Mine is fab, I love it to bits.  It's a bit less....agricultural than a LC, but a similar size and only slightly lighter.  It's a similar size to a long wheel base Shogun, but known for being more reliable (and I think the Shogun is known for it's reliability anyway!).  The UK version is the 4-Runner, but they're hard to find (and pricey) 2nd hand.  The Surf is the Japanese import.  They're based on the notoriously indestructible Hilux pick up, and are basically a 5 door estate version of that.  Mine is badged as a Hilux Surf, but later versions just as a Surf.
		
Click to expand...

We have a 4-Runner and it has indeed been fantastic for towing and its reliability


----------



## TarrSteps (26 August 2010)

kerilli said:



			thanks everyone, that's really helpful. I didn't realise the American/Canadian type trailers (floats? is that what they call them?)
		
Click to expand...

Trailers?   A "float" is actually what you'd call a lorry, but more like an open stock truck without dividers etc.  The word is pretty much consigned to old horse books now, anyway.   Otherwise, people actually do call them "tagalongs"/"bumper pulls" (even though they don't attach to the bumper. . ) or "goosenecks"/"5th wheels" (different hitches) or "rigs" for the truck/trailer combo.

Goosenecks are a fantastic set up, not least because if you're staying away you can unhitch and just use the vehicle for running around etc., although that's a bigger plus where most shows are far away and multi day.  They're also very stable and a doddle to drive relative to bumper pulls, smaller ones with a standard license.  It's very rare to see lorries in North America.

Pedants-R-Us


----------



## TarrSteps (26 August 2010)

kit279 said:



			North American (Tarrsteps )
		
Click to expand...

Cheers.  

Hey, you wouldn't like it if I kept referring to you all as "Europeans", let alone "French".


----------



## kerilli (26 August 2010)

Ah, okay, TS, thankyou... at least if i've got the correct names, i have some hope of being able to track one down. 
4-runner, or Surf... great, thankyou.


----------



## Llanali (26 August 2010)

Another vote for the Surf....an ex had one which he used with a flat bed for his recovery business, when his big recovery lorry was off the road, and it ultra reliable and an absolute tank, but incredibly comfy with all the leather etc. for longer trips. 

I recently tried a ford explorer for towing, and got the distinct impression it could pull mountains, but I have no idea on the legality as I didn't check (decided on a Defender instead as couldn't be insured on the Explorer (too young)).


----------



## Mike007 (26 August 2010)

Crikey , .That is some serious fault. What is the lorry ,make model and year. Engine runaways like that are pretty unusual. Sadly if the engine over revs ,the strain on pistons and con rods is unbelievable and they tend to go bang ,maybe not immediately but the damage is done. Even changing the engine ,you would have to be very carefull. You need to know why it blew up to ensure you didnt transfer the fault to the new engine.The engine surging and hanging back should have rung alarm bells with the mechanics last year. Blaming it on a slipping clutch is frankly ,complete pants!


----------



## diggerbez (26 August 2010)

don't you have a solitaire box K? my friend had one on a W plate- cost her a fortune and was very well looked after and she had some problems with it- culminating in it actually setting on fire on the M6- it fully burnt out  not sure what the problem actually was 

re. trailers- i have an equitrek and its a piece of ****! the horses love it and bad travellers travel great in it but the build quality is truly awful as is the customer service (imho!)


----------



## Aces_High (26 August 2010)

Really interesting thread, I've not read all the comments so I hope I am not repeating anyone!  Just wanted to add that the big difference with these trailers that take 3+ horses in the States is that they all have big V8 or V12 4X4's to pull them with hence making them fine to use.  The big problem we have in the UK is cost of fuel (they are complete gas guzzlers) and 2nd the road tax would be through the roof.  My friends new Volvo costs over £400 a year to tax.  I can't work it out either!  Be interested if anyone gets links for more trailers as mentioned previously so we can have a look.


----------



## kerilli (26 August 2010)

diggerbez, yes, it's a Solitaire. Looks beautiful, cost a fortune, costs another fortune to keep on the road. Wish I'd never bought the bloody thing.
Mike, it's an O4 Eurocargo, the 75E17 version. Very well maintained... as if that's made any difference.  
What you said is EXACTLY what i'm so worried and angry about. I spent a LOT of money on this box, took it to the best garage I know of round here (big commercial place) every time there was the slightest question. I was driving it on the M4 soon after buying it when there was the most HUGE bang from the underneath/back, I stopped immediately, got out and checked, nothing had gone, all seemed fine, it carried on as if nothing was wrong. took it to garage... they never got to the bottom of that either... maybe it was the start of the problem. 
I couldn't work out how the surging and hanging back last summer had anything to do with the clutch tbh, it was in gear at the time humming along nicely at 50 ish on motorways... but this is the trouble, i don't know enough about engines to argue the issue.
any other advice enormously gratefully received...


----------



## *hic* (26 August 2010)

I know you're heart set on a trailer atm but just thinking slightly laterally (as I have tentatively looked at this as adding value to my lorry) is there any point in picking up another complete rolling chassis with lowish mileage and doing a body swap? 

Issue being that if you drop a "new" engine into yours you don't know that, assuming it was part of the management system that caused the problem in the first place, that part has been replaced, as you don't know what it was the had such disastrous consequences.

Actually I've just had another idea for a contact for you but will pm it.


----------



## silverstar (26 August 2010)

Couldnt you get a recon engine? 

The gooseneck trailers are made in North Wales by a company called fifth wheel. They look really nice but wouldnt you need a heavy powerful 4x4 to pull one?

Ive got a 3.5 ton but I expect you want to travel more than 1 horse. Its been reliable so far, except last weekend when I had to keep stopping as it was overheating. So Ive got to get it fixed and Im hoping its not going to cost too much. But Id still rather have that than tow a trailer.


----------



## alwaysbroke (26 August 2010)

Ummm something the chap that I bought my lorry from as a brand new conversion on an older lorry, told me was that he didnt like buying the chassis, as a 'dud' was more likely to be passed on to be converted to unsuspecting horse box buyers. His Dad runs a haulage company and his brother is a lorry mechanic, they all worked from the same yard, if the client wanted them to source the chassis, he prefers to send his brother out to buy so it wasn't recognised it was going to be converted. Not sure how true this is, but touch wood haven't had too many problems with our old girl.


----------



## dieseldog (26 August 2010)

I would look into swapping the body.  You can pick up a white box van type of a similar year for about £5k.

Does yours have a Maple immoboliser/alarm fitted?  I know someone with a 75E17 who's Maple gave them big problems - kept turning the engine off as they were driving down the road - they ended up ripping it out.


----------



## druid (26 August 2010)

I love my Nissan Patrol for towing - it's been far more reliable than our Trooper, Jeep or RangeRover were. It has 3.5t towing capacity. 

Landcruisers go forever....we have one at work with 600k km on the clock and all of that done in 2nd/3rd with an Ifor hitched up....


----------



## humblepie (26 August 2010)

Can't really add much but if you had a two trailer, for the odd occasion you need to travel three would it be economical or viable to hire a lorry - probably depends how often you would need to do it as self drive hire can be expensive.


----------



## kerilli (26 August 2010)

dieseldog, no Maple immobiliser, no.
i'll keep looking for ideas, thanks everyone. just sick to death of it at the moment and would love someone to take it off my hands... any takers?!!? (yeah, right.)


----------



## dozzie (26 August 2010)

kerilli said:



			diggerbez, yes, it's a Solitaire. Looks beautiful, cost a fortune, costs another fortune to keep on the road. Wish I'd never bought the bloody thing.
Mike, it's an O4 Eurocargo, the 75E17 version. Very well maintained... as if that's made any difference.  
What you said is EXACTLY what i'm so worried and angry about. I spent a LOT of money on this box, took it to the best garage I know of round here (big commercial place) every time there was the slightest question. I was driving it on the M4 soon after buying it when there was the most HUGE bang from the underneath/back, I stopped immediately, got out and checked, nothing had gone, all seemed fine, it carried on as if nothing was wrong. took it to garage... they never got to the bottom of that either... maybe it was the start of the problem. 
I couldn't work out how the surging and hanging back last summer had anything to do with the clutch tbh, it was in gear at the time humming along nicely at 50 ish on motorways... but this is the trouble, i don't know enough about engines to argue the issue.
any other advice enormously gratefully received...
		
Click to expand...

It sounds as if the garage mechanic f.....d up.
Our old Rover 827 had a problem and the garage, the big expensive Rover Dealership, blew up the engine. Fortunately my OH knew enough to explain to the garage exactly what the mechanic had done wrong and refused to pay the bill. They tried to land us with  £4.5K bill but because OH knows about cars they didnt get away with it.

With ours they drained the oil, but they didnt leave enough time for the new oil to filter through, I think, and there was a bit of an air block which caused the cylinders (I think that is what they are called but may be pistons-OH would know but I will get a lecture if i ask) to drop and blow the engine. I am not sure what the garage did with yours but it sounds similar if oil related.


I have to say had it been me I wouldnt have had a clue and would have paid the bill. I sort of feel you might be being taken for a ride here because, as you say, you dont know about engines.

The "Petrolhead" forum was always quite good for advice but not sure if it is still going. Plus you have to be a bit brave to post on there!


So IMO I think the garage should pay part of the cost tbh.You didnt take it in with a blown up engine so tbh they are responsible for that. I think they maybe taking you for a ride. Excuse the pun.


----------



## perfect11s (26 August 2010)

kerilli said:



			You'll wish you'd never asked...!
last summer on the way back from Burgie it was surging and then underrevving, irrespective of what i was doing to the accelerator, but i managed to nurse it home. had it fully checked out immediately, they said it ran fine for them, then said it needed a new clutch so it had one. (it wasn't doing this when changing gear though...)
it wasn't really used at all during winter, spring and summer due to my injury but i made sure it went for a run every week or two, as ordered by mechanics.
i lent it to friends a few months ago, it went a bit weird for them (lights flashing on and off, then conked out) and i managed to talk them through how to start it again. 
as a precaution, had garage out to do fully diagnostic check on it (linked up computer etc etc) but found nothing...
it had full service for plating 2 months ago, blew back brakes during the test, had to be rescued... HUGE bill.
i used it in the interim a few times, incl to Twemlows and back (3-4 hour journey) and it ran like a dream.
friends borrowed it a few weeks ago, it ran beautifully there, they dropped horse off, drove out of drive up road, and it hugely over-revved, tons of black smoke poured out. driver stopped it immediately, waited a bit, then tried to start it, no go. no warning lights on at all...
i went over and tried, no good, called rescue... initially thought it was the turbo, no luck, dragged it to my usual garage (big commercial place).
mechanics found a melted and a broken injector. replaced all injectors. got it going, ran it for 5 mins, then it went bang, blew a rod straight through the engine block.
so, new engine required.
I am GUTTED, i can't believe i spent so much on this lorry, called the garage every time it seemed wrong, and it still blew up. 
any advice hugely appreciated. 
i'm going to have to sell it to pay for engine replacement, basically..
choices so far: used engine (3month warranty) £3k ish, recon engine 6k ish, new engine 8k ish, all plus labour and VAT of about 3k...
Help Help Help. Please!
		
Click to expand...

 Sounds like rip of prices to me you could buy a compleat 04 iveco chassis for well under 6 grand !  take the engine and other parts and sell the rest,  I would shop round  a engine should be 1000-1500 for a used one and if you have a tilt cab about 500 should remove and refit  its a days work!!! if you have non tilt then 3 grand might be ok as its a total mess to drop the axle and fiddle around from underneth


----------



## kerilli (26 August 2010)

it's non-tilt cab, unfortunately.  
dozzie, i KNOW it had enough oil in it, that's the first thing the rescue people got me to check when it broke down, the level was absolutely fine.
the garage said the sump was full of oil and diesel though, that one of the injectors must have been faulty and was dribbling fuel in but then must have flooded it, or something.
yes, i suspect i might just be being taken for a ride here. will consult good friend who knows a LOT about engines...
thankyou, all. really really appreciate it, hugely.


----------



## perfect11s (26 August 2010)

kerilli said:



			it's non-tilt cab, unfortunately.  
dozzie, i KNOW it had enough oil in it, that's the first thing the rescue people got me to check when it broke down, the level was absolutely fine.
the garage said the sump was full of oil and diesel though, that one of the injectors must have been faulty and was dribbling fuel in but then must have flooded it, or something.
yes, i suspect i might just be being taken for a ride here. will consult good friend who knows a LOT about engines...
thankyou, all. really really appreciate it, hugely.
		
Click to expand...

 I would have a go at the bodgers that built  a late lorry in this age of tilt lutons  without a tilt  crikey it might have been ok to nail the cab down 20 twenty  years ago but its a simple enough thing to do nowadays
as plenty of people do .. very unfair and shows they don't give a ***** what happens after they sell the dam things...


----------



## SpruceRI (26 August 2010)

2 horse trailer-wise with a decent bit of living you could try a Pegasus.

A friend of mine had one that was much admired.  Carried 2 horses facing forward, with a large side ramp.  There was a good amount of space up the front, and my friend had a small kitchen of sink, gas hob and cupboards.  The padded side walls in the horse area, once horsey was out of course, pulled down to provide 2 beds.

They pulled 2 biggish horses in theirs with a Landrover Defender.

She had the Pegasus Beta model with living: http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/PegasusIndex.htm

 I'm sure it was bigger than the ones pictured, maybe they've altered the sizing.


----------



## Mike007 (26 August 2010)

Unfortunately we so often trust companys because they are large well kmow organisations,yet the truth is thati t is only as good as the spotty seventeen year old that works on your truck.But maybe I,m just bitter because I,m only a lowly backstreet cowboy mechanic with a degree in aircraft engineering


----------



## dominobrown (26 August 2010)

Just drop yout lorry off at mine 
You will get a complimentary Landrover and Ifor williams trailer


----------



## perfect11s (26 August 2010)

Rana said:



			QR

Can't help you on the towing, but if you quite like the Lancruiser, don't rule out a Toyoya Surf.  Mine is fab, I love it to bits.  It's a bit less....agricultural than a LC, but a similar size and only slightly lighter.  It's a similar size to a long wheel base Shogun, but known for being more reliable (and I think the Shogun is known for it's reliability anyway!).  The UK version is the 4-Runner, but they're hard to find (and pricey) 2nd hand.  The Surf is the Japanese import.  They're based on the notoriously indestructible Hilux pick up, and are basically a 5 door estate version of that.  Mine is badged as a Hilux Surf, but later versions just as a Surf.
		
Click to expand...

 sadly these smaller toyotas  are only rated to tow 2250kgs so one big horse in say a 510 ifor!!  best for heavy towing is 4.2 landcruiser 80or 100 series
the mupets at toyota call them amazons  (a big strong woman) nissan patrol  or defender all tow 3500kg


----------



## perfect11s (26 August 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Unfortunately we so often trust companys because they are large well kmow organisations,yet the truth is thati t is only as good as the spotty seventeen year old that works on your truck.But maybe I,m just bitter because I,m only a lowly backstreet cowboy mechanic with a degree in aircraft engineering

Click to expand...

 me too mike but not as clever no degree!!! I work round some of these main dealers and yes !!!! they  rush jobs and half do them, are fitters not engineers fix one problem and make another , or mis diagnose ... but apart from that quite good


----------



## Mike007 (27 August 2010)

I will take the "not as clever,no degree " with a pinch of salt.I have read your posts for too long to be fooled ,perfect 11,s.


----------



## dozzie (27 August 2010)

kerilli said:



			it's non-tilt cab, unfortunately.  
dozzie, i KNOW it had enough oil in it, that's the first thing the rescue people got me to check when it broke down, the level was absolutely fine.
the garage said the sump was full of oil and diesel though, that one of the injectors must have been faulty and was dribbling fuel in but then must have flooded it, or something.
yes, i suspect i might just be being taken for a ride here. will consult good friend who knows a LOT about engines...
thankyou, all. really really appreciate it, hugely.
		
Click to expand...

Yep you need a good mechanic to ask questions IMO.


----------



## perfect11s (27 August 2010)

Mike007 said:



			I will take the "not as clever,no degree " with a pinch of salt.I have read your posts for too long to be fooled ,perfect 11,s.
		
Click to expand...

 Thanks Mike Im still learning there's somthing new every day,


----------



## JenHunt (27 August 2010)

Kerilli,
we use an old wooden 3 horse trailer that has had the breast bar adjusted so it takes 2 big horses. Yes its heavy, but its stable and lovely and spacious. I tow with a daihatsu fourtrak, and previously with a disco. Won't go back to the disco as they rust too quickly, and the fourtrak is more stable. A few years ago my sister and I took 2horses and all the kit for eventing them down south for the RC champs near stoneleigh. We had 2 sets of tack, feed, clothes, a tent and associated stuff, hay for two horses for 3 days without grazing (9 bales, on the roof of the disco!) and found that it worked brilliantly!


----------



## TPO (27 August 2010)

Re Goosenecks. That's what horses were travelled in when I worked in Australia and they were amazing! 

Lakota Trailers have just started advertising in Western Horse UK mag and are the closest things to goosenecks I've seen in the UK. "HUT Horse Utility Trailer. USA made bumper pull trailer with all the living amenities of a Gooseneck!"

According to the advert:
Pull with a Discovery, Shogun or similar
Fully UK weight regulations compliant
No more VOSA worries about overweight lorries
The most luxurious trailer available in the UK
All aluminium trailer with awesome (their word not mine!) build quality.

Anyway the wesbite is http://www.lakotatrailers.com/ if it's of any use


----------



## perfect11s (27 August 2010)

TPO said:



			Re Goosenecks. That's what horses were travelled in when I worked in Australia and they were amazing! 

Lakota Trailers have just started advertising in Western Horse UK mag and are the closest things to goosenecks I've seen in the UK. "HUT Horse Utility Trailer. USA made bumper pull trailer with all the living amenities of a Gooseneck!"

According to the advert:
Pull with a Discovery, Shogun or similar
Fully UK weight regulations compliant
No more VOSA worries about overweight lorries
The most luxurious trailer available in the UK
All aluminium trailer with awesome (their word not mine!) build quality.

Anyway the wesbite is http://www.lakotatrailers.com/ if it's of any use
		
Click to expand...

 i was intrested to see that in the western horse,  I hoping to go to the wes champs tomorow
maybe they will be there, and as someone who looked into importing  a gooseneck and found a miriad of laws and rules that were different here v the states I have quite a few questions!!


----------



## dieseldog (27 August 2010)

Just a thought about double cab pickups - not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but they aren't easy to insure.  They are classed as commercial vehicles and 'normal' insurance companies won't do them.  My husband uses his for a business - so has to have business insurance anyway - but it would make it more expensive to insure if you didn't.

Also they get charged the same amount as an artic to get across the Severn Bridge.  So my lorry with living is now £10 cheaper to drive over than his pick up.


----------



## now_loves_mares (27 August 2010)

kerilli said:



			dieseldog, no Maple immobiliser, no.
i'll keep looking for ideas, thanks everyone. just sick to death of it at the moment and would love someone to take it off my hands... any takers?!!? (yeah, right.)
		
Click to expand...

Very possibly maybe  My dad is a mechanic, I already have the (Euro-cargo!!) chassis; and Dad has just started getting the chassis up to scratch to swap under my lorry. But my existing body is too long so he's got to do quite a bit of work to shorten it. 

Therefore in theory might be interested in a lovely body with a duff brain  But depends on how on earth we'd get a lorry with no engine up to NE Scotland 

Re towing, I'm afraid there is not a chance I'd tow three horses. I tow with a Disco (one of the few that have a 3.5T rating, Landcruiser being another I think). It tows my Ifor and 2 horses very very well, but I get a lecture every time I see my Dad about the combined weight, and how I need to pay attention and yadayadayada. He's quite right to lecture me (not that I'm not a careful driver, but I'm a girl and therefore in his eyes a ****e driver ) but his point is that even that combination can weigh nearly 4 tons - as much as many smaller lorries, but with a "bendy" joint in the middle. I don't mind towing per se, but I can't wait to get a lorry back, I just feel so much safer.

Also - I can't tack up in the trailer, so if it's raining when out competing I get soaked. And cos my two fight, I have to keep putting the head partition up, then take it down to unload again. Not an issue in a lorry.

Admittedly as Dad is a mechanic the running costs are less of a concern for me, but I really really can't wait to get back to one! Horses for courses though, and it does sound as though yours has been a particularly bad End of Shift version


----------



## perfect11s (27 August 2010)

dieseldog said:



			Just a thought about double cab pickups - not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but they aren't easy to insure.  They are classed as commercial vehicles and 'normal' insurance companies won't do them.  My husband uses his for a business - so has to have business insurance anyway - but it would make it more expensive to insure if you didn't.

Also they get charged the same amount as an artic to get across the Severn Bridge.  So my lorry with living is now £10 cheaper to drive over than his pick up.
		
Click to expand...

 dont think its a problem anymore as the insurance companys have realised they are a sensible alterntive to a car for sporty familys or country folk so the NFU etc will give cover and at a sensible price...


----------



## perfect11s (27 August 2010)

now_loves_mares said:



			Very possibly maybe  My dad is a mechanic, I already have the (Euro-cargo!!) chassis; and Dad has just started getting the chassis up to scratch to swap under my lorry. But my existing body is too long so he's got to do quite a bit of work to shorten it. 

Therefore in theory might be interested in a lovely body with a duff brain  But depends on how on earth we'd get a lorry with no engine up to NE Scotland 

Re towing, I'm afraid there is not a chance I'd tow three horses. I tow with a Disco (one of the few that have a 3.5T rating, Landcruiser being another I think). It tows my Ifor and 2 horses very very well, but I get a lecture every time I see my Dad about the combined weight, and how I need to pay attention and yadayadayada. He's quite right to lecture me (not that I'm not a careful driver, but I'm a girl and therefore in his eyes a ****e driver ) but his point is that even that combination can weigh nearly 4 tons - as much as many smaller lorries, but with a "bendy" joint in the middle. I don't mind towing per se, but I can't wait to get a lorry back, I just feel so much safer.

Also - I can't tack up in the trailer, so if it's raining when out competing I get soaked. And cos my two fight, I have to keep putting the head partition up, then take it down to unload again. Not an issue in a lorry.

Admittedly as Dad is a mechanic the running costs are less of a concern for me, but I really really can't wait to get back to one! Horses for courses though, and it does sound as though yours has been a particularly bad End of Shift version 

Click to expand...

 surely it would be easyer to get the right wheelbase chassis to suit your box or move the rear axle its easy to get the propshaft  altered ...


----------



## now_loves_mares (27 August 2010)

perfect11s said:



			surely it would be easyer to get the right wheelbase chassis to suit your box or move the rear axle its easy to get the propshaft  altered ...
		
Click to expand...

Not so simple unfortunately - oh that it were!! The existing box that I've owned for years is the maximum length it can be for the size (including the maximum distance from behind the rear axle, which if iirc should be a % of total length?). I think from memory it's a 24ft box (excl cab), and most are 18-21ft. It's aluminium so not as heavy as some, but still pointlessly long for the 7.5t limit; it's partitioned for 4 but in these weight conscious days, completely un-necessarily big, unless I load 4 falabellas in it . Also unfortunately in my new house, there is a very tight gateway in from the fairly narrow road, with trees either side I'm not allowed to take down, hence can't make gateway wider. My lorry won't fit in unless we shorten it; due to the swing from the rear wheel to back of lorry. 

Anyway, he loves doing stuff like this - honest


----------



## dieseldog (27 August 2010)

perfect11s said:



			dont think its a problem anymore as the insurance companys have realised they are a sensible alterntive to a car for sporty familys or country folk so the NFU etc will give cover and at a sensible price...
		
Click to expand...

That is handy to know


----------



## perfect11s (28 August 2010)

now_loves_mares said:



			Not so simple unfortunately - oh that it were!! The existing box that I've owned for years is the maximum length it can be for the size (including the maximum distance from behind the rear axle, which if iirc should be a % of total length?). I think from memory it's a 24ft box (excl cab), and most are 18-21ft. It's aluminium so not as heavy as some, but still pointlessly long for the 7.5t limit; it's partitioned for 4 but in these weight conscious days, completely un-necessarily big, unless I load 4 falabellas in it . Also unfortunately in my new house, there is a very tight gateway in from the fairly narrow road, with trees either side I'm not allowed to take down, hence can't make gateway wider. My lorry won't fit in unless we shorten it; due to the swing from the rear wheel to back of lorry. 

Anyway, he loves doing stuff like this - honest 

Click to expand...

Ahh yes I understand ,big job broken out then yes better at about 20 ft and get rid of some overhang, best if one horse is in front of the back axle, good luck with your project..


----------

