# So where are all the good competition yard grooms hiding then?!



## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

Have been advertising for an AGE trying to find another (part time) groom to add to our little team and we've had LOADS of applications. BUT none of them have been any good?!?!

I have interviewed what seems like 200 people over the last few weeks, trialled (and unfortunately sacked) two people and been abused by one person over the phone. 

SERIOUSLY! We don't expect too much, they'd be offered training/transport etc but above all, we're really rather lovely people 

All I want is for someone to muck out slightly faster than at a ratio of one stable to head groom doing four stables, someone who doesn't squeal in hysterics when the stallions get their man bits out, someone who can handle a fit event horse without beating seven bells out of them if they prance about a bit and perhaps someone with a little bit of common sense? 

Maybe? No? Too much to ask? OK - we can probably just about get by without the last one, but honestly.... I am at my wits end  

We have been advertising in H&H, Yard&Groom, lots of other sites and have a good rate of pay too... We keep everything above board & have a PAYE system OR can be invoiced by the groom... we're easy!

Anyone got ANY suggestions at all? 

Has anyone else had trouble trying to find people to do their horses/work?


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## amage (4 July 2012)

I'd avoid the websites and go straight to the Facebook page grooms, jobs and riders reply here. It was set up by a pro groom because the top grooms move around by word of mouth not ads!!


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## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

Thanks for the reply.

That's the thing though, we don't want a top groom - just someone who isn't a complete numpty! 

We only want a part time person who doesn't move at the pace of a snail or scream & shout at the horses.. they don't even need to turn out to a high standard or anything like that. We already have a head groom for that...


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## amage (4 July 2012)

I'd still look at that group or else get head groom on the case. I only ever know good grooms or good future head grooms who need to learn their trade to come by word of mouth


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## humblepie (4 July 2012)

Have you put an advert up in Wicks in Lambourn as it is near you.    May well find someone who has worked with racehorses so used to fit horses and colts and working efficiently.

Have a couple of friends who have worked in event yards and racehorse yards so people do move around between the disciplines.


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## lrobson (4 July 2012)

where abouts in oxforshire are you? and what would the hours be part time can pm if you like?


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## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

amage said:



			I'd still look at that group or else get head groom on the case. I only ever know good grooms or good future head grooms who need to learn their trade to come by word of mouth
		
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I have requested to join the group - nothing on there at the moment to suit, but I will post on there anyway. Thanks.



humblepie said:



			Have you put an advert up in Wicks in Lambourn as it is near you.    May well find someone who has worked with racehorses so used to fit horses and colts and working efficiently.

Have a couple of friends who have worked in event yards and racehorse yards so people do move around between the disciplines.
		
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Yep - advert up there and in other local stores... Just got lots of older people not wanting to start early and one person who just hurled abuse at me down the phone when I said that they couldn't being their kids onto the yard while they work.


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## dominobrown (4 July 2012)

Hmmm I am a bit disilluisoned about working with horses really- £2.50 an hour with no holidays and 12 hours days is not on (where I last worked), and it seems to me anyone with any common sense probably thinks that A LOT of employers are taking the pee! Your job sounds good, put personally I think it would be easier to find a full time groom.


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## BronsonNutter (4 July 2012)

dominobrown said:



			personally I think it would be easier to find a full time groom.
		
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I thought that too - especially with it being down south and a higher cost of living. 
What about labelling it as a working pupil position? Seeing as you're including training and transport  Then you (probably) wouldn't get the adults with kids applying, although you might end up with even more idiots...


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## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

dominobrown said:



			Hmmm I am a bit disilluisoned about working with horses really- £2.50 an hour with no holidays and 12 hours days is not on (where I last worked), and it seems to me anyone with any common sense probably thinks that A LOT of employers are taking the pee! Your job sounds good, put personally I think it would be easier to find a full time groom.
		
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Definately easier to find a full time groom but we just don't have enough work for two full time workers. Can't take on another horse and can't offer any more accommodation either...



BronsonNutter said:



			I thought that too - especially with it being down south and a higher cost of living. 
What about labelling it as a working pupil position? Seeing as you're including training and transport  Then you (probably) wouldn't get the adults with kids applying, although you might end up with even more idiots...
		
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Really don't want a WP tho - been there, done that - can't be faffed with all the paperwork/hassle that goes with *legally* going through the apprentice system (although most yards don't actually do it - I just keep EVERYTHING on my yard above board).


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## dominobrown (4 July 2012)

Ali16 said:



			Really don't want a WP tho - been there, done that - can't be faffed with all the paperwork/hassle that goes with *legally* going through the apprentice system (although most yards don't actually do it - I just keep EVERYTHING on my yard above board).
		
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You'r definately th excption then! Good luck at finding a groom, if you were in the North I would be interested.


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## Festive_Felicitations (4 July 2012)

I would love to tell my job I'm going part time and spend my spare time working for you but... I'm in Australia. Dammit! 

Best of luck finding someone!


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## teazle (4 July 2012)

Sounds perfect for me (and yes, I am fast, try training on a riding school when you're short staffed in the middle of winter and 20 need mucking out!) but sadly I'm in Suffolk, so it wouldn't work!!

Problem I assume you're having: Part time, so people aren't willing to move for the job, whereas full time jobs people might take the plunge - limits the people pool and no accommodation so difficult for people to move for the job.


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## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

dominobrown said:



			You'r definately th excption then! Good luck at finding a groom, if you were in the North I would be interested.

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Sadly I think you're right... it is more expensive but less chance that you are going to be sued for breaching employment laws like my old boss!



Festive_Felicitations said:



			I would love to tell my job I'm going part time and spend my spare time working for you but... I'm in Australia. Dammit! 

Best of luck finding someone!
		
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Thanks - If only we were in Aus. Then I would have been eventing more than 3  times this season, I wouldn't have to go to a stinky office job (because Dad, who lives in Aus, would OBVIOUSLY just pay my mortgage for the sheer pleasure of seeing me daily) and I would be brown all over, not just on my arms & face


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## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

teazle said:



			Problem I assume you're having: Part time, so people aren't willing to move for the job, whereas full time jobs people might take the plunge - limits the people pool and no accommodation so difficult for people to move for the job.
		
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Exactly this... and there's a WHOLE load of crazy people around us apparently!!


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## Leg_end (4 July 2012)

I know lots of people who have been having similar issues and TBH its because its part time work. Those recruiting for FT grooms seem to find it much easier. Would you ever be able to take on another FT groom? If you could in the future then it may be worth saying that there is a possibility of full time hours or at least overtime of some sort..

Also, worth reviewing your hours required. If you are offering PT then you need to offer some sort of flexibilty so that they can work another job around it...


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## Worried1 (4 July 2012)

I feel your pain...

Trying to find someone to replace our PT WP, she has been with us four years and is off travelling for a year.

I had a major rant on FB this week and it was nice to know I am not the only one who feels the same way! Lots of people feeling the same way.

I had one girl who despite being shown several times actually couldn't sweep! I kid you not, Mini W actually does a better job, she was so bad Mr W got off and even tried to show her, and as anyone knows Mr W doesn't do manual work 

I had one girl who was young but seemed enthusiastic and keen, over the following weeks the enthusiasm dwindled and the mouth got mouthier added to which I was running behind repairing or re-doing her work till she text me 10 minutes before she was due to come in to say she had rowed with her parents and wouldn't be coming in.

The majority hear the words weekend work and we don't see them for dust  - swear that most think we just plait ponies and compete everyday but obviously not at weekends 

Then the icing on the cake was this week, interviewed someone who seemed ideal, agreed for them to come in on Monday to work a trial day, they didn't arrive. 

We pay according to experience but at the top it exceeds the minimum wage, we also offer training and riding under Mr W and the opportunity to compete, as well as lunches, nibbles and unlimited drinks.


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## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

Leg_end said:



			I know lots of people who have been having similar issues and TBH its because its part time work. Those recruiting for FT grooms seem to find it much easier. Would you ever be able to take on another FT groom? If you could in the future then it may be worth saying that there is a possibility of full time hours or at least overtime of some sort..

Also, worth reviewing your hours required. If you are offering PT then you need to offer some sort of flexibilty so that they can work another job around it...
		
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Yep - we found a FT groom in April within a week (and a very good one too). I have said on the adverts that there will be more hours for the right person and that those extra hours can be flexible. We just really need help in the mornings - the rest of the day is fine ATM.

There might be the possibility of a FT position eventually, but there's just not currently enough work for two.


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## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

Worried1 said:



			I feel your pain...

Trying to find someone to replace our PT WP, she has been with us four years and is off travelling for a year.

I had a major rant on FB this week and it was nice to know I am not the only one who feels the same way! Lots of people feeling the same way.

I had one girl who despite being shown several times actually couldn't sweep! I kid you not, Mini W actually does a better job, she was so bad Mr W got off and even tried to show her, and as anyone knows Mr W doesn't do manual work 

I had one girl who was young but seemed enthusiastic and keen, over the following weeks the enthusiasm dwindled and the mouth got mouthier added to which I was running behind repairing or re-doing her work till she text me 10 minutes before she was due to come in to say she had rowed with her parents and wouldn't be coming in.

The majority hear the words weekend work and we don't see them for dust  - swear that most think we just plait ponies and compete everyday but obviously not at weekends 

Then the icing on the cake was this week, interviewed someone who seemed ideal, agreed for them to come in on Monday to work a trial day, they didn't arrive. 

We pay according to experience but at the top it exceeds the minimum wage, we also offer training and riding under Mr W and the opportunity to compete, as well as lunches, nibbles and unlimited drinks.
		
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OMG you could be describing our yard at the moment! 

Last week we had someone in who was just lovely, but mucked out seriously slowly so on the second day Edward got off his horse and showed her how to do it 'our way'. He got back on his horse, rode for 45 for mins, brought the horse back and she'd only done one more box 

The other person we had in was slow, but got slightly faster over a couple of days' trial, but she absolutely screamed the place down when one of stallions she was handling got his bits out when she was leading him. She actually LET HIM GO and ran to the other side of the yard  

I quote from her CV:

"Used to handling highly strung horses, mares, geldings and stallions".

Hhhmmmm.....


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## dafthoss (4 July 2012)

What about a uni student? they will be on their summer holidays until mid-late september now so might suit until you find some one more perminent.


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## Worried1 (4 July 2012)

Ali16 said:



			OMG you could be describing our yard at the moment! 

Last week we had someone in who was just lovely, but mucked out seriously slowly so on the second day Edward got off his horse and showed her how to do it 'our way'. He got back on his horse, rode for 45 for mins, brought the horse back and she'd only done one more box 

The other person we had in was slow, but got slightly faster over a couple of days' trial, but she absolutely screamed the place down when one of stallions she was handling got his bits out when she was leading him. She actually LET HIM GO and ran to the other side of the yard  

I quote from her CV:

"Used to handling highly strung horses, mares, geldings and stallions".

Hhhmmmm.....
		
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I'm sorry but ^^^^ this has made me giggle!

I am at a total loss as to where we go from here  some seem to be under the illusion that competition yard = ultimate glamour! It's not it's hard work and horse pooh still needs to be cleared up whether it belongs to Blitz or Valegros!


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## 4faults (4 July 2012)

Haha I'm having the opposite problem! Trying to find a yard to work on with professional like minded people who don't expect you to do a 15 hour day for 20 pound. Good luck with your search, there must be someone out there


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## Festive_Felicitations (4 July 2012)

Ali16 said:



			The other person we had in was slow, but got slightly faster over a couple of days' trial, but she absolutely screamed the place down when one of stallions she was handling got his bits out when she was leading him. She actually LET HIM GO and ran to the other side of the yard  

I quote from her CV:

"Used to handling highly strung horses, mares, geldings and stallions".

Hhhmmmm.....
		
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LOL! Oh god that is hilarious!   Incredibly fustrating for you I'm sure but...*cracks up laughing*

If it makes you feel any better while you might have managed to event more than 3 times this year, the east coast has had the most ridiculously wet summer, autum and winter so far and we have lost events too!
http://www.berrimahorsetrials.com.au/index.html (scroll down a bit) there is normally a decent drop into that water complex...


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## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

Festive_Felicitations said:



			LOL! Oh god that is hilarious!   Incredibly fustrating for you I'm sure but...*cracks up laughing*

If it makes you feel any better while you might have managed to event more than 3 times this year, the east coast has had the most ridiculously wet summer, autum and winter so far and we have lost events too!
http://www.berrimahorsetrials.com.au/index.html (scroll down a bit) there is normally a decent drop into that water complex...
		
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Wow.. that's made me feel a bit better  Thanks!

I can laugh about that girl now, but I was having images of me trying to explain to our clients who own mares that their darling girls had been raped and were now going to be haivng part Fresian babies!


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## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

dafthoss said:



			What about a uni student? they will be on their summer holidays until mid-late september now so might suit until you find some one more perminent.
		
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Would love one of them, but none are replying to adverts.. Unless I go and kidnap one.... Hmmmm...



Worried1 said:



			I'm sorry but ^^^^ this has made me giggle!

I am at a total loss as to where we go from here  some seem to be under the illusion that competition yard = ultimate glamour! It's not it's hard work and horse pooh still needs to be cleared up whether it belongs to Blitz or Valegros!
		
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Tell me about it. I had a telephone convo with one and the first thing she asked was whether she would be able to ride our Inter II/GP boy on a daily basis. Errr... NO? Muppet.



4faults said:



			Haha I'm having the opposite problem! Trying to find a yard to work on with professional like minded people who don't expect you to do a 15 hour day for 20 pound. Good luck with your search, there must be someone out there
		
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Thanks... I am starting to lose all faith tho...


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## Missadelaide (4 July 2012)

Poor you - sounds like a nightmare! I would second putting an adverts in at EJ Wicks and the one near you White Horse Feeds I think it's called. Also in Lambourn try the newsagents, I have often seen wanted ads in EJ Wicks.

Best of luck!


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## dafthoss (4 July 2012)

Ali16 said:



			Would love one of them, but none are replying to adverts.. Unless I go and kidnap one.... Hmmmm...
		
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I'd be up for a bit of kidnapping if the YP could be kidnapped as well 

More seriously though could you offer grass livery for them for the summer? saves the hastle of finding a yard just for summer if you have space for some thing to live out. Might be worth putting some thing up about not minding uni stidents as it can be off putting applying for jobs and having to tell them your back off to uni in september and getting turned down because of it.


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## Perfect_Pirouette (4 July 2012)

Ali16 said:



			Have been advertising for an AGE trying to find another (part time) groom to add to our little team and we've had LOADS of applications. BUT none of them have been any good?!?!

I have interviewed what seems like 200 people over the last few weeks, trialled (and unfortunately sacked) two people and been abused by one person over the phone. 

SERIOUSLY! We don't expect too much, they'd be offered training/transport etc but above all, we're really rather lovely people 

All I want is for someone to muck out slightly faster than at a ratio of one stable to head groom doing four stables, someone who doesn't squeal in hysterics when the stallions get their man bits out, someone who can handle a fit event horse without beating seven bells out of them if they prance about a bit and perhaps someone with a little bit of common sense? 

Maybe? No? Too much to ask? OK - we can probably just about get by without the last one, but honestly.... I am at my wits end  

We have been advertising in H&H, Yard&Groom, lots of other sites and have a good rate of pay too... We keep everything above board & have a PAYE system OR can be invoiced by the groom... we're easy!

Anyone got ANY suggestions at all? 

Has anyone else had trouble trying to find people to do their horses/work? 

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QR

I'm not a groom, let alone a qualified one but even I wouldn't do any of the above 

I hope you manage to find someone soon!


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## ihatework (4 July 2012)

Tricky situation.

Part time, no accomodation means you are restricting to locals

Needing them to start at a specific time in the morning means you are probably ruling out a lot of PT candidates (who are usually such as they have kids to get to school etc)

You offer training but don't want the hassle of a WP. You offer training but won't take someone wanting to bring a horse ??

The way I see it you need a freelancer. Good freelancers tend to be pretty busy. Not sure what you are paying but presume it would be in the £12-15 an hour bracket to stand any chance of attracting someone?


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## Ali16 (4 July 2012)

ihatework said:



			Tricky situation.

Part time, no accomodation means you are restricting to locals

Needing them to start at a specific time in the morning means you are probably ruling out a lot of PT candidates (who are usually such as they have kids to get to school etc)

You offer training but don't want the hassle of a WP. You offer training but won't take someone wanting to bring a horse ??

The way I see it you need a freelancer. Good freelancers tend to be pretty busy. Not sure what you are paying but presume it would be in the £12-15 an hour bracket to stand any chance of attracting someone?
		
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Yep - happy to pay a freelancer between £7.50ph (for someone not so experienced) to £14.50ph for more experienced person. We do need them to start at a particular time so that the yard is finished on time...

The expense and time you put into a WP (IF you do it properly) is often not worth what you get out so, no, we can't go down the WP route again. We offer training on the basis that they will ride OUR schoolmasters (which we are insured for). They are very welcome to bring their own horse for training if they want to and can arrange transport. We can also provide transport to and from comps that we are going to as well. Also happy to help them while they are competing...


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## nic85 (4 July 2012)

Im a Part time groom, I also have a 5 year old son.

I work 2 1/2 -3 hours during the summer and winter anything from 3-4-4 1/2 hrs.

I start at 9.30 after ive taken my son to school and finish at lunch time. I only live about 8 miles away from the yard and my horse is on a livery yard half way between home and work so easier for me 

Im very lucky that if i need to bring my son with me I can but he usually stays in the car with a portable dvd player or his DS and his 'work' lunchbox. To be fair I dont take him everyday and my boss doesnt mind but i do always ask first! 

I basically do the yard and get horses ready for hunting in winter and working hunter, SJ etc during the summer. I have ridden a few times but my boss did state when I spoke to her on the phone that she doesnt pay people to ride her horses, she just needs the yard running.

I really like my job but could do with more hours...but then who doesnt want more money!! 

Good luck and I hope you find someone soon


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## EmmaR (4 July 2012)

If I didnt work full time in a boring officey job and could afford to go part time I would work for you!! Worked for Tim Stockdale for 3 years so plenty of experience and not scared by stallions manly bits haha.

Just wish i could afford to go part time!! 

Good luck hope you find someone soon


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## Jesstickle (4 July 2012)

Move to Cambridge and I can recommend you someone. She is a student now so free all summer but worked for Andrew Nicholson before I knew her and then Val Gingell. 

I'd have thought a uni student would be exactly what you want too. At least 'til you find someone more permanent. Not quite sure how you'd go about finding them mind you. How friendly are you with your horsey neighbours? Maybe one of their grooms could recommend someone for you?


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## Polotash (4 July 2012)

I agree, all the PT people prob have kids so don't want to start so early (and are prob more inclined to call in sick when their kids are poorly!)

If you are serious about wanting a Uni student email the riding clubs direct with the job description. Most students won't be looking at horsey jobs for the summer because they are usually longer term, but will apply to a direct advert.

I'm assuming you are near one of the following Uni's but you'll be able to find emails via google if not...

Oxford Uni RC - info@ourc.co.uk
Oxford Brookes RC - sport@brookes.ac.uk
Reading Uni RC - http://www.reading.ac.uk/StUnion/Riding/web/index_java.htm

I used to work one (very long!) day a week to pay for my horses livery when I was at Uni. If it gives you hope I used to do 10 straw boxes in an hour - no rubber mat and horses in 24/7 Tuesday am to Sunday pm with only skipping out...


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## DunDally (4 July 2012)

You sound like a great employer.  Wish you were nearer.  Daughter currently working on a comp yard (not live in).  The standards are very high.  There are about  22 horses and 2 full time grooms.  she is supposed to do 11 hrs a day 6 days a week through the season but it is closer to 14 hours a day and at last count she has worked 12 days without a day off.  I don't even want to know what her wages equate to an hour - they are also expected to stay overnight at the yard if the YOs are away at a show.  Sadly she has become disillusioned and says she doesn't want to work with horses any more.  I think it is not so much the job itself - she loves horses and is not afraid of hard work but the long hours and constant working with little or no time off takes its toll.


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## seabsicuit2 (4 July 2012)

People are crying out/desperate for good grooms I get a weekly bulletin from an agency just so that I can keep tabs on what's on offer. A lot of jobs seem to get readevertised every few weeks; and that is jobs offering top wages, accommodation, etc etc. 
Think it's an employers Market out there!


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## Degan (4 July 2012)

Can I ask where abouts in Oxfordshire you are? I'm a student at Moreton Morrell and am currently home for the summer. Trying to find somewhere local to keep me busy!


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## ISH_lover (4 July 2012)

What area are you, on my phone so can't see. I have spent weeks looking for a position like this and people either want me to do full time with just over a day to myself or don't even want to pay  I hate job hunting


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## Posie (5 July 2012)

If you find a good groom, let me know! I need someone in Oxon/Bucks and seem to be only attracting morons!!


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## Ali16 (5 July 2012)

We're on the Oxon/Berks borders, near Wantage.

Nice to hear we're not the only yard having issues finding a groom - there are just so many idiots out there that expect you to bend over backwards for them and what do you get in return..? Nadda  

Phone interviewed someone last night. Girl asked if there would be a lot of riding.. I said 'No, not initially, but there could be for the right person if they prove that they are hard working. Hacking and general exercise'.

Her resposnse: 'Well what do I get out of it then?'



Seriously??


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## cobwithattitude (5 July 2012)

OMG - how do they talk to their parents and what were they like at school?  what's going on?


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## TarrSteps (5 July 2012)

It doesn't help you much but it is kind of a valid question. 

If someone is serious about working with horses, they won't be taking a part time gig, they'll be a WP somewhere or, if they have the experience, working full time, likely with accommodation for themselves and/or a competition horse.

Obviously they get money out of it but if that's the criteria then Sainsbury's would be an easier choice, not least because they would have flexibility with regard to shifts or the option of working limited full days.  As a big part of your target group would be women at home with their kids, an early start isn't going to ever work for them.  Ditto teenagers without their own transport - they might be able to get dropped off one someone's way to work but how would they get home?

Another problem now is travel costs.  Doing a couple of hours every day at roughly minimum wage would barely cover fuel etc. unless the person literally lived down the street.  I travel a lot but I also charge accordingly to cover it.   When I was doing a part day for someone (not on the yard, only with the horses) they paid me virtually the same as they would have someone else for a full day to make it worth my while.

So the pool of people who can do the logistics of what you want is actually very small.  And competent people would likely have their pick, I'm sorry to say, as so many yards are cutting down and want at least some of their people part time.  (One yard near me ONLY has part time people now, or limited hour freelancers, so they don't have to pay the cost associated with full time workers.  )

Don't get me wrong, I feel your pain.  But those people we keep hearing about who "want to work" don't live in your neck of the woods and are not likely to be in a position to have a few free hours in their day at exactly the times you need.

Can you be flexible at all?  Could someone come in after feeding etc. and do chores to help you out?

Sorry, not trying to rain on the parade but there ARE good people out there, but they are the people who are, in their turn, going to have conditions on what they can do and how much they have to make to do it.


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## Ali16 (5 July 2012)

TarrSteps said:



			It doesn't help you much but it is kind of a valid question. 

If someone is serious about working with horses, they won't be taking a part time gig, they'll be a WP somewhere or, if they have the experience, working full time, likely with accommodation for themselves and/or a competition horse.

Obviously they get money out of it but if that's the criteria then Sainsbury's would be an easier choice, not least because they would have flexibility with regard to shifts or the option of working limited full days.  As a big part of your target group would be women at home with their kids, an early start isn't going to ever work for them.  Ditto teenagers without their own transport - they might be able to get dropped off one someone's way to work but how would they get home?

Another problem now is travel costs.  Doing a couple of hours every day at roughly minimum wage would barely cover fuel etc. unless the person literally lived down the street.  I travel a lot but I also charge accordingly to cover it.   When I was doing a part day for someone (not on the yard, only with the horses) they paid me virtually the same as they would have someone else for a full day to make it worth my while.

So the pool of people who can do the logistics of what you want is actually very small.  And competent people would likely have their pick, I'm sorry to say, as so many yards are cutting down and want at least some of their people part time.  (One yard near me ONLY has part time people now, or limited hour freelancers, so they don't have to pay the cost associated with full time workers.  )

Don't get me wrong, I feel your pain.  But those people we keep hearing about who "want to work" don't live in your neck of the woods and are not likely to be in a position to have a few free hours in their day at exactly the times you need.

Can you be flexible at all?  Could someone come in after feeding etc. and do chores to help you out?

Sorry, not trying to rain on the parade but there ARE good people out there, but they are the people who are, in their turn, going to have conditions on what they can do and how much they have to make to do it.
		
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No worries - just greatful for other people's input really!

Don't get me wrong - I know that there are good people out there, we have one extremely good full time groom and we used to have another two extremely good people part time. However, their circumstances unfortunately changed (one got pregnant and the other injured her knee skiing!) and so they have left a hole in our workforce 

Sadly with the hours we can't really be flexible - we need the yard done & dusted by 10am at the *very* latest - I know that this limits us, but can't really have it any other way.

The point of my post was really that I am just so gobsmacked at how many people there are out there who apply but really have NO clue what working on a competition yard is like. As Worried1 said, they think it's all glamour etc, and when they get to us and find out that even GP horses pooh, they're like 'This isn't what I signed up for!' 

We had SUCH an overwhelming response to the adverts that I put out, but the quality of people replying just doesn't seem great.

And yes, we're happy to pay travel at the normal business mileage rate...


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## wench (5 July 2012)

I will throw another spanner in the works...

If you NEED the yard doing by that time in the morning, and if I was looking at your job, to be honest, unless I was desperate for the cash, I wouldnt be climbing out of bed at stupid o'clock to have finished work by 10/11?

If it was FT hours - different matter, but by being up so early, this would also limit hours I could work in the local pub, say.


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## jodie :) (5 July 2012)

Sounds like just what I'm looking for atm, I would jump at the chance if I was down south


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## feldon (5 July 2012)

i havery worked in the industry for over fifteen years on yards and i am seriously thinking about giving up. i have had more bad employers than good and sadly equine wages do not increase with the cost of living. in my last position i was in charge of several high value comp horses expected to be on call day and night and generally keep whole thing afloat for the same wages some kids earn working in supermarket. and generally employers drop you when it suits them etc. sorry to sound doom and gloom but my experience has generally been poor despite spending lots of time and money training etc. many of the really good 'career' grooms leaving industry for same reasonleaving the kids to it!


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## bananas_22 (5 July 2012)

If only you were about 30mins closer towards the Bicester direction, I think I know the perfect person!


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## Jenni_ (5 July 2012)

We're hiding up in Scotland - I know a few that would suit you up here!

Ditto what someone said about people thinking working on comp yards is glamorous - the amount of silly girls I've seen come and go on yards is unbelievable. Starts off alright as they can say they are working with 'so and so' but once they realise they have a head lass / manager to answer to and will hardly spend any time with rider and that they will ACTUALLY (for all the glory travesty it is!) have to muck out... they scamper 

I've found the best workers I've had are the younger school age (15-17) ones who don't need the money, just really want to be around horses!

Hope you find someone  think the fact it's so part time and so rigid it not helping.


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## KatB (5 July 2012)

Have you got space on your yard for their horse? Just thinking if its just a morning job, and there is someone who works elsewhere but has a horse, there maybe scope for someone who has there own horse and could so with a couple of extra hours training/help and a bit of cash which is part of the package of working for 3 hours or so a day....?


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## Worried1 (5 July 2012)

For us we have previously had PT staff happy to work around uni as we are close to Canterbury Christchurch, Greenwich and Hadlow Campuses. They have got their horse fix without having to fork out the cost of their own and most have thoroughly enjoyed training and working.

I am prepared to be shot down for this... I think we have created a generation who think mucking out is beneath them and after learning to ride on Doris who has been in the college riding school since 1982, you can just start working with us, jump straight on an advanced horse and do flying changes for 40 minutes in your daily lesson.

Now I am someone who was the first generation to go to university to do an equine degree but mine incorporated a year in industry where I was fortunate to work for Guy Landau and local well-respected event rider. I thoroughly enjoyed uni but I will admit I learnt the vast majority of tools of our trade working on my placements, not in a lecture room - aside from the theory for A&P and dissection!


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## Goldenstar (5 July 2012)

I have had some great older part timers who started after school starting time I think you will struggle with the early start.


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## teazle (5 July 2012)

Your need for things to be done by 10am will also definitely be holding you back. Is there any way you could have someone come in, say from 9.30-1.30 to do the mucking out etc? A lot of ex-full time grooms with children would then jump at that chance.


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## TheoryX1 (5 July 2012)

I dont work in the equestrian industry, but to be honest, the problems you are encountering seem to be universal for employers, and most of my friends who run businesses say all the same thing.  Before I start my rant I do need to say I dont have issues with part time employees, children, working parents or spaniels, so nobody please report me to ACAS.

First off, most part-time staff seem to be mums.  They will all want to work around school hours, will want first dabs on holidays - usually wanting to book vast swatches of their leave during August, preventing other staff without children taking leave.  If their child is sick they dont show up.  The good ones will ring up and ask to book holiday, the bad ones just go sick, or just dont turn up.  On top of that, they want to be paid massive amounts so that they can pay for child care (they do have my sympathy there though), even more than than the normal rate, and most have no shame in asking for it.  Also, most of them seem to be claiming all sorts of tax credits, which are administered through employers payroll - more dam papework for our HR and Accounts department.

Now if they are older part-timers, usually ladies with grown up children who have flown the nest they are lets just say inflexible.  No problem with them starting at 9.00 am etc, but they must, absolutely must be gone by 12.30 pm at the latest.  Reason - they have a dog at home - its usually a spaniel called  Archie (dont laugh, I have lost count of the Archies who have been owned by my part-timers in the past).  They have to get home to let it out for a wee, and then to walk it. pllus then prepare husband's tea and have a glass or two of wine.  Nine times out of ten they will refuse to work Fridays (in my profession, that can be a busy day), as they have a regular lunch date with a friend, or beauty treatment/hairdressers regularily.  

We are very good employers, pay excellent salaries and have great conditions and we look after our staff, will actively recruit people with potential and help them reach their full potential, plus we have a very good career path, and some very nice benefits as well, and we still have problems getting part-time staff.  Its usually easier to get full timers who actually want to work and have a career.  However, we do have some lovely part-timers currently, who we want to keep.  Oddly enough retired men make great employees as they want to work, have a great work ethic and dont have young children or spaniels.  What about considering someone like this - I am partially jesting, it would be a nice healthy job for a grandad who was fit enough to work on a yard.  They are also unfailingly polite and courteous and really want to do a good job - they are also mostly a lot of fun and the ones we have employed have taught your younger staff a lot of life lessons very well.

I absolutely and utterly do feel your pain though, and wish you luck in finding someone suitable, and I am sure that you will, just dont jump on the first person who you think might be suitable, if the gut feeling goes against it - the gut feeling is usually right, but I suspect you already know that.

In parting, just to show you how dam ridiculous people can be, we offered a Trainee's position to a young lady (18 years old), on a much higher salary than the original one on offer, with all her training for professional exams paid for, to a real bright spark who claimed to be desperate to work for us, she came for 2 interviews and spent half a day with us to see how she got on.  I offered her the job today at a much higher rate than originally discussed (£4K per annum) She told me that as she lived in the next village to that particular branch of our business (about 5 miles away and well served by public transport and plenty of free car parking), it was 'too far out for her to get to work'.  Oh god, I despair sometimes ........

Good luck with it!!!!!


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## PoppyAnderson (5 July 2012)

seabsicuit2 said:



			A lot of jobs seem to get readevertised every few weeks; and that is jobs offering top wages, accommodation etc there!
		
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Readvertised most likely due to nightmare employers and poor working conditions. I've left horsey jobs before because of such reasons and then I've seen them readvertised on a continuous cycle.


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## nikicb (5 July 2012)

Can I switch the question slightly to OP?  What sort of person would you expect to fill the role?  I know that as a mum I couldn't do those hours because of the school run, but I daresay a pt job would be quite nice.  And if someone could do those hours, might they not want a ft job?  I'm actually trying to help, but just trying to think what type of person would do this job so that you can aim for that market.


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## Mince Pie (5 July 2012)

SummerxStarsx said:



			QR

I'm not a groom, let alone a qualified one but even I wouldn't do any of the above 

I hope you manage to find someone soon!
		
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Eh?! So you wouldn't handle fit competition horses and muck out in a quick and precise manner? From what OP says she is advertising it sounds like a regular competition yard to me 



wench said:



			I will throw another spanner in the works...

If you NEED the yard doing by that time in the morning, and if I was looking at your job, to be honest, unless I was desperate for the cash, I wouldnt be climbing out of bed at stupid o'clock to have finished work by 10/11?
		
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When I was at my last competition yard we started at 7.30 and usually had the yard done by 10 - not that early?



OP shame you're up that way as I'm at a loose end and wouldn't mind being back in the yard world again!


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## louisem (5 July 2012)

There is nothing wrong with being a Mum in the Equestrian industry....
(Having 3 daughters has not managed to hinder me TOO much, running a 60 box livery yard or competing on the International circuit,without the help of Grooms or Nannies,Ladies and Gentlemen)
Peronally,I do my best work between 7 and 10am. (Kids go on the BIKE to school)
Shall I send you Char? She can work in the morning,ride her horses til lunch,then someone can put her on the walker til you are back from work!!!
With a bit of luck she might scramble you an egg and make some toast so you can get straight on a horse in the evening...
Oh,no! Bummer,she's only 15


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## nikicb (5 July 2012)

louisem said:



			There is nothing wrong with being a Mum in the Equestrian industry....
(Having 3 daughters has not managed to hinder me TOO much, running a 60 box livery yard or competing on the International circuit,without the help of Grooms or Nannies,Ladies and Gentlemen)
Peronally,I do my best work between 7 and 10am. (Kids go on the BIKE to school)
Shall I send you Char? She can work in the morning,ride her horses til lunch,then someone can put her on the walker til you are back from work!!!
With a bit of luck she might scramble you an egg and make some toast so you can get straight on a horse in the evening...
Oh,no! Bummer,she's only 15 

Click to expand...

I agree there is nothing wrong with mums in the equestrian world, but I couldn't send my 9 year old child on a 10 mile trip down the A34 on a bicycle to school every morning so I could do a pt job.  I'm sure there are many others like me, so that's why I was wondering what type of person Ali was looking for.


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## SusieT (6 July 2012)

''No, not initially, but there could be for the right person if they prove that they are hard working. Hacking and general exercise'.
' that rings alarm bells to me. In the equestrian worls that normally means no, and there never will be!


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## 4faults (6 July 2012)

This would be the perfect job for me :-( I would love an early start and finish as I would then be able to concentrate on my own horses etc in the afternoon, I'm lucky in that I don't need to work full time, I'm not fussed about riding employers horses and I have always worked with fit competition horses and my last place was also a stud so seen all the 'bits' etc ;-) it's a shame I'm too far away but were there's one there will be others OP


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## Ali16 (6 July 2012)

SusieT said:



			''No, not initially, but there could be for the right person if they prove that they are hard working. Hacking and general exercise'.
' that rings alarm bells to me. In the equestrian worls that normally means no, and there never will be!
		
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Erm, that's a massive assumption, isn't it? We STICK to our word, thanks.

What we didn't want was someone coming in and JUST thinking about the riding, actually. 

Anyway, thanks for all the replies - we have actually confirmed with someone this morning that they will be starting on Monday 

Comes highly recommended from a fellow eventer and we already know they can handle stallions & fit horses. 

PHEW


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## dingle12 (6 July 2012)

Ive been on lots of different yards via word of mouth, think thats a better approach then adverts you have no idea who you will get applying.


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## Jenni_ (6 July 2012)

Broke_But_Happy said:



			Eh?! So you wouldn't handle fit competition horses and muck out in a quick and precise manner? From what OP says she is advertising it sounds like a regular competition yard to me 



When I was at my last competition yard we started at 7.30 and usually had the yard done by 10 - not that early?



OP shame you're up that way as I'm at a loose end and wouldn't mind being back in the yard world again!
		
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The last comp yard I worked on, we started at 7am in the summer and 7.30 in the winter... it was a 70 odd horse yard that lived in at night all year, andin the summer between 3/4 of us we could have them all turned out (ok there was maybe some leading of 3 horses at a time sometimes....), mucked out, some on/ off the walker, haylage and water drinkers done for them coming back in at 3/4, by 9/ 9.30, so we could all go ride, and then if it was a nice day all go to the pub for a team lunch and a few drinks, and back to the yard for 3ish to bring in and put to bed which took about 1.5 hours max cause everything was done!

obviously that wasn't every day as there was maintenence, but it could be done.

OP glad you have found soemone


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## feldon (6 July 2012)

agree totally with comment about generation learning to ride on donkeys etc then expecting to walk straight in to job as  Carl hesters second rider without ever having to get up early or pick up po0!!


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## misterjinglejay (6 July 2012)

Sounds ideal for me! P/T is great and I am definitely a 'get up early, get working' groom! I've been YM on a 80 horse yard, and am more than happy to get stuck in mucking out to a tight time schedule.

If you would be willing to move your yard down to Kent, I'd be an excellent employee


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## Pancakes (6 July 2012)

Just a view from a different persepective 

I am comp groom recently looking for a F/T position (tried the whole multiple P/T thing - not really financially viable). I have worked with horses for many years and except that long hours, low pay is part of the job -its a lifestyle and one that i love! 

HOWEVER i did find myself thinking the other day where have all the good grooms jobs gone, the packages being offered by some employers at the moment are just crazy! i know you have to be slightly insane to work with horses but us gd'uns are not stupid and need a realistic wage to survive aswell.

I think some employers in the equine industry need a wake up call, treat the good grooms with a little respect after all i cannot see many employers getting up at 5am to muck out and plait before leaving for comps  

Disclaimer: this is only my opinion and personal experience with employment - like everything there is good and bad


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## TarrSteps (6 July 2012)

I do think yard owners are between a rock and a hard place though. If they want to pay more they have to up their charges but if they up their prices to cover it then customers scream. There still seems to be a feeling that affordable livery is a 'right' . . .perhaps that's the attitude that has to change? 

But then if you have fewer people owning horses you need less staff. .  . .


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## Ali16 (6 July 2012)

Pancakes said:



			Just a view from a different persepective 

I am comp groom recently looking for a F/T position (tried the whole multiple P/T thing - not really financially viable). I have worked with horses for many years and except that long hours, low pay is part of the job -its a lifestyle and one that i love! 

HOWEVER i did find myself thinking the other day where have all the good grooms jobs gone, the packages being offered by some employers at the moment are just crazy! i know you have to be slightly insane to work with horses but us gd'uns are not stupid and need a realistic wage to survive aswell.

I think some employers in the equine industry need a wake up call, treat the good grooms with a little respect after all i cannot see many employers getting up at 5am to muck out and plait before leaving for comps  

Disclaimer: this is only my opinion and personal experience with employment - like everything there is good and bad 

Click to expand...

I can totally see your point and I have been there, done that, got the t-shirt on yards where the boss doesn't rock up until gone 9am to start riding.

The reality on our yard is that now we are full to bursting with training liveries, it is simply not realistic for Edward (dressage rider) to muck out in the morning any more and then ride (which he has done for the last 10 years) as he normally has 10+ horses to ride. 

So, we never were, and never will be one of 'those' employers who refuses to get their hands dirty and turns up on the yard later than everyone else. 

I think it is disgusting that people expect their grooms to work longer hours that them. If anything is should be the other way around, which is most certainly is on our yard.  

We need the yard doing early as we just cannot have our liveries turning up to watch their horses go and still have wheelbarrows etc on the yard. Does not look professional IMHO


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## Allover (6 July 2012)

TarrSteps said:



			But then if you have fewer people owning horses you need less staff. .  . .
		
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Maybe fewer people paying better money would mean better conditions for grooms and and ultimately the horses?


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## lme (6 July 2012)

Ali16 said:



			We need the yard doing early as we just cannot have our liveries turning up to watch their horses go and still have wheelbarrows etc on the yard. Does not look professional IMHO 

Click to expand...

Speaking as a livery, I find that quite strange. If my horse's training was going well & he / she was happy / well looked after, I really wouldn't care about things like wheelbarrows on the yard when the horses were being mucked out.  

I'm not at all suggesting that your yard is like this (from your posts here, I'm sure it isn't), but in the past I've chosen not to move to somewhere where the need to keep up appearances seemed to be given too much priority.


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## Ali16 (6 July 2012)

lme said:



			Speaking as a livery, I find that quite strange. If my horse's training was going well & he / she was happy / well looked after, I really wouldn't care about things like wheelbarrows on the yard when the horses were being mucked out.  

I'm not at all suggesting that your yard is like this (from your posts here, I'm sure it isn't), but in the past I've chosen not to move to somewhere where the need to keep up appearances seemed to be given too much priority.
		
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I know what you mean, but the type of clients we have coming to our yard are not run-of-the-mill training livery clients.

We had an entire royal family (won't say which country, but they've just funded a very tall building in London...) last week and have a very well known footballer coming this weekend.... Need the place to look smart & tidy when they're there.

It's also a H&S matter too when you have a high footfall through the yard.


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## jessjc (9 July 2012)

Hi Ali, 

Wish I could do something to help you! You run such a professional operation, and wonderful to see that you're doing everything by the books - wish everyone would!

Sadly, there is such a bad reputation on both sides (employee/employer) when it comes to working with horses, and unfortunately it all far too often substantiated by bad/disreputable behaviour (again on both sides!).

For any potential, hard-working grooms (and I know they exist as I was one for several seasons!!) in the area, Ali and Edward run a fantastic yard, with top quality horses and facilities, excellent training (really excellent - I have lessons with Edward every couple of weeks, and they are fantastic!). They both are super-energetic, keep their horses wonderfully and are amazingly knowledgeable.

Ali, have you tried asking Grace from Heros (just down the A338 from you)? She might know of someone local. I shall ask around and let you know if I come up with anything - it's a hard task, but there must be someone perfect for you, just waiting for the opportunity!

BTW, I think you were perfectly right in saying  that there would be opportunities to ride in the future for them. There are not many horse owners who would let any old person ride their horses! It seems crazy - when I was younger, I was desperate to work on a yard in the summer, would work any old hours I was given, with no complaints, for whatever pay and ended up working with some top professionals and learning invaluable skills. 

Good luck with your search (and have a lovely holiday!)!!

Jxxx


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## luckyoldme (9 July 2012)

dominobrown said:



			Hmmm I am a bit disilluisoned about working with horses really- £2.50 an hour with no holidays and 12 hours days is not on (where I last worked), and it seems to me anyone with any common sense probably thinks that A LOT of employers are taking the pee! Your job sounds good, put personally I think it would be easier to find a full time groom.
		
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WHAT? £2.50 an hour?
Absolutely disgusting.. whoever dares to pay anyone this amount should hang their heads in shame.. i hope you told them where to shove their yard brush!


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## luckyoldme (9 July 2012)

4faults said:



			Haha I'm having the opposite problem! Trying to find a yard to work on with professional like minded people who don't expect you to do a 15 hour day for 20 pound. Good luck with your search, there must be someone out there
		
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Another one!!!!! £20 per day?
Is there anyone on here who dares to admit that they expect someone to work for £20 a day?
Tight fisted tossers.


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## wench (9 July 2012)

If its cash in hand when you need the money... but otherwise I wouldnt!


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## louisemum (9 July 2012)

When I joined the family business (Doesn't matter what it was) My Father in Law told me something which I have never forgotten, regarding the work ethic.
He said " Never ask a person to do a job that you are not prepared to do yourself. And if you can't, (for whatever reason ) offer to make a cup of tea for the person who can." In other words....Broadly, show support and appriciation in whatever way you can. 
And a  decent days pay is a good place to start !


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## fiveleafclover (9 July 2012)

Sadly I've been one of those expected to work for ridiculous money. I did it as a favour, and it would have been awkward for me to refuse/walk out because it's a small village and was for a friend of a friend, but I would never go back. I've got no problem with working hard but being left in sole charge of 16 horses on my first day, and only being paid the same as the girl who worked the mornings (i.e. we both got paid £30 a day and she was doing 5 hours, and me 11!) was taking the P!!

Mainly, though, I work for someone who spoils me totally so I love the work and would do it for no money if she needed me! Wish she was a bit busier because there isn't really enough for me to do on a regular basis.

It's good to know there are good bosses out there though!!


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