# Too fat to ride?



## MamaPonio (22 May 2015)

Hey everyone, no this isn't a wind up but as it's slightly embarrassing I've created a new profile purely to ask this question! 

5'2" and 14 stone, on a diet but I'm desperate to ride now. Can afford a second pony but I'm so conscious of my weight and would never want to hurt a pony, I'm really not sure what to do. I'd only do light hacking until I lost enough weight to start riding 'seriously', I don't plan to do all day hunts! 

Opinions? Would obviously be looking at a native type, the smaller the better (ideally around 14hh) but not too small that it couldn't carry me


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## 0310Star (22 May 2015)

What about a 15.2 heavyweight cob for example? I am 5'2 And manage fine on a 16.2hh tb with the length of my legs.


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## PorkChop (22 May 2015)

A nice Highland would fit the bill, or of course a cob - have fun horse shopping


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## MamaPonio (22 May 2015)

Thanks guys, it's really encouraging to hear other people say it's ok to ride now! I've found a lovely haflinger mare, she's only 14hh but if I felt she was uncomfortable with me riding her, my eldest daughter could ride her for the time being? I'm so tempted to ring up and view her. Just need to double check at the yard that the next free stable is mine, there's a girl moving off in a couple of weeks.


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## Merlod (22 May 2015)

I'd say 15hh heavy cob or a well built highland as above, poss. an old fashioned type Welsh D though they generally aren't for the faint hearted! Not a small 14hh native pony


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## Palindrome (22 May 2015)

I'd verge more towards a good hunter, 15hh plus and well built. Is there a particular reason you can't ride a horse? You are in no way too fat too ride BTW but IMO you need a horse not a pony.


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## fathorselover (22 May 2015)

I had a haffy,  that mare was a tank and would carry 14 stone all day long! If you can cope with the Fab haffy personality I would recommend them wholeheawholeheartedly!


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## wingedhorse (22 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			Thanks guys, it's really encouraging to hear other people say it's ok to ride now! I've found a lovely haflinger mare, she's only 14hh but if I felt she was uncomfortable with me riding her, my eldest daughter could ride her for the time being? I'm so tempted to ring up and view her. Just need to double check at the yard that the next free stable is mine, there's a girl moving off in a couple of weeks.
		
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It isnt scientific what weight what horse can carry comfortably IMO, my 15.2hh short backed, fairly compact but chunky WB notices more than 12 stone.

My much bigger 17hh WB horse is fine with 14 stone, but he has health reasons, I wouldnt want him carrying more. 

I used to ride a chunky 14hh Conemara stallion, at 11 stone, and he was fine. But I cannott imagine asking him to carry 14 stone. 

I think there are few hard and fast answers and it is horse dependent. Plus how horse is built, age, conformation, saddle fit, back length etc. 

Id ring up about the Haflinger, and ask seller if he can comfortably carry 14 stone.


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## MamaPonio (22 May 2015)

At the yard at the moment so will send a proper reply later but my main reason for wanting to stay small is so I can mount from the ground (obviously not at this weight, I mean when lighter and fitter) and so that my eldest daughter could ride it too, she's got a year or two left on our 11.2 but it'd be nice if she could ride and maybe even share lessons with her younger brother. Then again, I'd be looking at a native type who'll take up the leg so she'd probably need a size in between anyway when she outgrows the sec a. Lots to think about! I'll catch up properly later, thanks for everyone's input


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## ozpoz (22 May 2015)

Honestly, mounting from the ground is bad for your horses back and your saddle - it is time to phase that out, and then think about something big enough to carry you comfortably - and I'm afraid that will not be a good size for your daughter coming off an 11.2.


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## Tiarella (22 May 2015)

Why don't you get to your ideal weight and then treat yourself to a horse so you won't feel constantly guilty in your mind.


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## Tobiano (22 May 2015)

I think a highland and most haffies would carry you happily but agree forget mounting from the ground it is really bad for the horse's back unless you weigh about 6 stone and can vault on.


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## Wagtail (22 May 2015)

Personally, I would say the hafflinger is too small for you. I once weighed myself and then added full riding gear, boots hat and body protector and then my saddle and I had gained more than two stone. So unless you are weighing yourself in full riding gear and saddle, the pony would be carrying around 16 stone, not 14. I don't think you are too heavy to ride, but I do think you need a bigger horse than a 14hh haffy.


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## sarahw123 (22 May 2015)

Personally I would wait until I had lost the weight before buying or riding. It would give incentive and a goal to stick to. I'd be very wary weight plus tack and wouldn't be riding until I was a more healthy weight


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## twiggy2 (22 May 2015)

I would ask an experienced person to try the horse for you with you there, someone who knows you and your riding abilities-the mare may not be suitable then it is answer found, if she is suitable then get her and spend a couple of months working her from the ground, long reining, walking in hand, teaching lateral work, spook training, loading + walking her somewhere new-and have someone else ride her a couple of times per week. give yourself a target weight before you ride and stick to it. all the extra exercise from the ground work and the best incentive you can get then maybe the weight will shift faster.


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## hibshobby (22 May 2015)

Heavier but balanced is fine. Heavier and dead weight, or at least not so secure in the saddle is perhaps not as fine. If you're concerned (but congrats on the diet by the way), maybe work on your balance and position to help your horse - whatever it ends up being ! I like the idea of a 15.2 cobby type, you should be fine.


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## sarcasm_queen (22 May 2015)

I definitely wouldn't want someone who weighed 14 stone on my highland, not for anymore than a few minutes anyway.


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## Leo Walker (22 May 2015)

My HW cob would be fine with 14stone. Hes 14.1/2hh and is a real tank. Hes also placid enough to be fine with kids. I wouldnt let you mount from the ground even if you were 6 stone though


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## cobgoblin (22 May 2015)

I wouldn't let anyone of 14st ride my 14hh heavyweight cob, and as Wagtail says tack and clothing usually add up to an extra 2st on top. 16st is too much for a pony of that size, 14hh really is very small and a haffy would be lighter built than my cob.
I also never mount from the ground unless absolutely necessary and I'm only 9.5st.

A 15.2 heavyweight sounds about right.


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## MamaPonio (22 May 2015)

Thanks everyone, I'm still in two minds whether to buy now or wait.  I've seen a lovely 15.2 ID who looks great on paper and I've always loved the breed, there's plenty of cobs around that I think would also be suitable.  With regards to the mounting comment, I was more meaning if we're out on a hack and I needed to dismount but I think 15.2 would be ok in a push (once I'm lighter of course).  I'm a sucker for a roman nose and hogged mane so maybe the hunter type horse would be a good option after all


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## mandyroberts (22 May 2015)

I am 5'2" and ride a 15'2". Weight is single figures stone (not prepared to disclose precisely) but would think you need very stocky 14'2" plus or pref 15'2" cob. I wouldn't regularly ride a 14hh anything.


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## orionstar (22 May 2015)

I'm 5'2" and about 10 stone and I'm currently riding my 14'3 wbx. He has a leg in each corner, but even if he was cobbier I wouldnt like to put much more on him on a day to day basis. I'm with him for the long haul. 14 stone for a pony In my book is excessive. We arent asking them to haul coal from the face anymore, they arent there to "earn a keep" until they die, regardless of how much they can take, we need to ask, should they!


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## hackedoff (23 May 2015)

I am currently 9 1/2 stone, 5,1 and ride a 13.3hh pony. I bought a stocky native as I was nearly 12 stone when I bought my pony. She could cope with my weight but the honest truth is she is happy carrying a lighter rider . It was s killer shedding nearly 3 stone. My husband used to be amazed that I would ration a potentially  lamenting pony but wouldn't cut down myself. I know it sounds harsh but if you are wondering about your pony carrying you it's diet time.


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## Bosworth (23 May 2015)

a highland cob would carry 14 stone with ease......... they are seriously strong, and incredibly sturdy.


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## Henry02 (23 May 2015)

I'm 5ft7 weight between 9 and 10.5 stones, dependant in circumstances, and I learnt to ride on a 14hand highland. He was more than capable of carrying me, and could have hacked out all day with me on him.


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## Archangel (23 May 2015)

Personally I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get another horse, the weight is going to prey on your mind -  set a target of say 3 months to make some of the surplus go away and then get the dream horse and off you go.   In the meantime you could get yourself ready by thrashing a bike about the place (my bike regularly just lays down on corners or bucks me off so all good practice).


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## Goldenstar (23 May 2015)

Bosworth said:



			a highland cob would carry 14 stone with ease......... they are seriously strong, and incredibly sturdy.
		
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A 15h mature highland would be perfect .


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## touchstone (23 May 2015)

I'm another that would wait until your weight is reduced, it will be an added incentive to trim down and a new horse can be a reward for all your hard work.


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## ridefast (23 May 2015)

It's not really about breed height or type it's the length of its back, what size saddle it can take and will your bum fit in it


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## Mongoose11 (23 May 2015)

Dear lord anyone would think the OP were on the verge of starring in an episode of 'My 600lb life'! Calm down dears, it's just some excess weight. Buy a horse, or a pony, there's a fair few that would carry you happily all day long. Alternatively, lose some weight and have the pick of the market.


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## Wagtail (23 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Dear lord anyone would think the OP were on the verge of starring in an episode of 'My 600lb life'! Calm down dears, it's just some excess weight. By a horse, or a pony, there's a fair few that would carry you happily all day long. Alternatively, lose some weight and have the pick of the market.
		
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Calm down? I don't understand why you think people are not being calm. The OP asked a straight question because she obviously wanted honest replies. I don't see one person being anything other than calm.

OP, at the moment you probably need a horse that is a little bigger than what you really want. So you need to be realistic. You could buy a horse that would suit your needs right now, and then lose some weight and regret not having the horse you really want. That would be a great shame. On the other hand, most of us know that losing weight is not easy. And if you are to keep the weight off, then it is a lifestyle change for life. I have had to diet in order to be light enough to back my tiny WB mare. I cannot eat very much at all or I will pile the weight back on. It's depressing because I know that is it for life. No takeaways, cakes, sweets (unless I starve myself the following day). It is HARD. So your other option is to lose some weight and then buy the horse you REALLY want. But unless you are confident you can keep the weight off, you may end up having to sell it or keep it as a pet. Only you know how likely you are to A) lose the weight, and B) keep it off. It's not easy. Good luck.


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## Smurf's Gran (23 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Personally, I would say the hafflinger is too small for you. I once weighed myself and then added full riding gear, boots hat and body protector and then my saddle and I had gained more than two stone. So unless you are weighing yourself in full riding gear and saddle, the pony would be carrying around 16 stone, not 14. I don't think you are too heavy to ride, but I do think you need a bigger horse than a 14hh haffy.
		
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Agree with this - at 14 stone you will have a riding weight (including saddle of at least a stone and a half  to two stone heaver)  this is 15 7 to 16 stone.  To follow the 20% rule at 15 7 in Kilos this would be approx. 98.43 kilos  you would need to be riding something that weighs approx. 500 kilos plus ( not carrying fat this would need to be be its natural fit weight)  most horses of this weight are at least 15 hh and bigger, even the stocky ones.

I definitely think you need something bigger than 14 hands


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## Smurf's Gran (23 May 2015)

Bosworth said:



			a highland cob would carry 14 stone with ease......... they are seriously strong, and incredibly sturdy.
		
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But to have a riding weight of approx. 14 stone, the rider would need to be approx. 12 stone to 12 stone 7.


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## Mongoose11 (23 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Calm down? I don't understand why you think people are not being calm. The OP asked a straight question because she obviously wanted honest replies. I don't see one person being anything other than calm.

OP, at the moment you probably need a horse that is a little bigger than what you really want. So you need to be realistic. You could buy a horse that would suit your needs right now, and then lose some weight and regret not having the horse you really want. That would be a great shame. On the other hand, most of us know that losing weight is not easy. And if you are to keep the weight off, then it is a lifestyle change for life. I have had to diet in order to be light enough to back my tiny WB mare. I cannot eat very much at all or I will pile the weight back on. It's depressing because I know that is it for life. No takeaways, cakes, sweets (unless I starve myself the following day). It is HARD. So your other option is to lose some weight and then buy the horse you REALLY want. But unless you are confident you can keep the weight off, you may end up having to sell it or keep it as a pet. Only you know how likely you are to A) lose the weight, and B) keep it off. It's not easy. Good luck.
		
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It was a little bit of a Michael Winner style joke. Nevermind. 

I was genuinely suprised at some of the answers here. The OP could ride a Highland, Fjord, solid Haffy, IDx, any number of cobs that are built right. 14 stone is hardly that excessive for a general pleasure rider's habits. I could be wrong but I don't think OP is talking about hunting three times a week.

There are plenty of saddles that weigh 6-7kg and you don't have to ride in chain mail or boots of lead, as some of you seem to. I don't ride my horse because I AM too heavy but I know she could go for hours with 15-16 (inc tack) stone on her back.


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## Pigeon (23 May 2015)

Yeah, I think a pony will be too small. When you actually stand next to a 14hh, they are really dinky. 

Yess get a show cob!! Nothing better


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## cobalobM (23 May 2015)

honestly im 5'3 and 10.2 stone, ride a 14hh haffy and feel/look a tad big on him....


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## Smurf's Gran (23 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			It was a little bit of a Michael Winner style joke. Nevermind. 

I was genuinely suprised at some of the answers here. The OP could ride a Highland, Fjord, solid Haffy, IDx, any number of cobs that are built right. 14 stone is hardly that excessive for a general pleasure rider's habits. I could be wrong but I don't think OP is talking about hunting three times a week.

There are plenty of saddles that weigh 6-7kg and you don't have to ride in chain mail or boots of lead, as some of you seem to. I don't ride my horse because I AM too heavy but I know she could go for hours with 15-16 (inc tack) stone on her back.
		
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7KG is over a stone, and clothes,  hat and boots, and Bikini ???  will weigh at least half a stone, so if you are 14 stone your pony / horse is carrying at least  15 stone 7lbs.  For your horse to carry 14 stone you need to weigh about 12 and a half max.


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## laura_nash (23 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			Thanks everyone, I'm still in two minds whether to buy now or wait.  I've seen a lovely 15.2 ID who looks great on paper and I've always loved the breed, there's plenty of cobs around that I think would also be suitable.
		
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I used to work at a trekking centre that had a lot of ID mares (bred showjumper's from them with their TB stallions and any that were barren went into the trekking centre for the summer).  We had quite a few "larger" riders that came to us because they were over the weight limits of all the other local yards, but the ID's could carry them no problem, even with cantering on the beach etc.  I would think a 15.2 ID would be much better for your current weight than a 14hh haffie, so unless you are really sure you are going to lose the weight and keep it off in the longer term it would be a more sensible choice.  

My 14.3 HW cob could carry you no problems when fit as a one-off for a quiet hack, but I wouldn't want him to always carry that weight 3-4 x a week or carry it when unfit, so again you need to look at whether you are going to be able to keep the horse in work all winter if you look at something smaller.


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## PollyP99 (23 May 2015)

I agree 14h is too small.  I tried a 14.1 Welsh whne looking to buy and looked and felt way too big, I'm 5'3 and about 11 stone currently, I bought my 15h mare and I'm fine in her but know I need to lose a stone in order to move up to long fast rides which is what we both need.


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## cobgoblin (23 May 2015)

I just weighed all the bits and bobs such as hat, bit and bridle , jodhpurs etc. and even with lightweight stuff it comes to over 5kg. Add on a lightweight saddle at 7kg and you're up to over 12kg, which is over 26lbs. You need to add at least 2st to the rider weight, my calculations didn't even allow for a jumper or coat ( or underwear!).


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## Mongoose11 (23 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			7KG is over a stone, and clothes,  hat and boots, and Bikini ???  will weigh at least half a stone, so if you are 14 stone your pony / horse is carrying at least  15 stone 7lbs.  For your horse to carry 14 stone you need to weigh about 12 and a half max.
		
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I'm well aware of how many pounds there are in 7kg and therefore the relation to stones. There is no need to have your tack and clothing come in at two stone if you choose not to. Webbing bridles, Jin Stirrups - these all shave pounds of the weight of tack. OP could consider these things and make lighter choices or she could ride a bigger animal/choose to lose weight. 

OP, the thread title is 'too fat to ride?' and the answer is no, not too fat to ride at all. You might have to go up in height/bone/depth though and not by too much. My horse is just shy of 15.1, has ten inches of bone and would see you right &#128516;


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## FfionWinnie (23 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			I just weighed all the bits and bobs such as hat, bit and bridle , jodhpurs etc. and even with lightweight stuff it comes to over 5kg. Add on a lightweight saddle at 7kg and you're up to over 12kg, which is over 26lbs. You need to add at least 2st to the rider weight, my calculations didn't even allow for a jumper or coat ( or underwear!).
		
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Sorry to be picky but a light weight saddle is more like half a stone not a stone. My jumping saddle is 7kgs and I wouldn't call that a light weight saddle.  Many synthetics are 4.5kgs or less.


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## Mongoose11 (23 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			Sorry to be picky but a light weight saddle is more like half a stone not a stone. My jumping saddle is 7kgs and I wouldn't call that a light weight saddle.  Many synthetics are 4.5kgs or less.
		
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Agreed. Your average Wintec comes in at 5kg and some are less.


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## Palindrome (23 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Agreed. Your average Wintec comes in at 5kg and some are less.
		
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yes but you need a saddle that fits the horse well, not necessarily the lightest.


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## Mongoose11 (23 May 2015)

Palindrome said:



			yes but you need a saddle that fits the horse well, not necessarily the lightest.
		
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Of course. What am I missing? You find a saddle that suits, but if weight is an issue then a synthetic could be a first port of call and considered.


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## Smurf's Gran (23 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			I'm well aware of how many pounds there are in 7kg and therefore the relation to stones. There is no need to have your tack and clothing come in at two stone if you choose not to. Webbing bridles, Jin Stirrups - these all shave pounds of the weight of tack. OP could consider these things and make lighter choices or she could ride a bigger animal/choose to lose weight. 

OP, the thread title is 'too fat to ride?' and the answer is no, not too fat to ride at all. You might have to go up in height/bone/depth though and not by too much. My horse is just shy of 15.1, has ten inches of bone and would see you right &#55357;&#56836;
		
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I agree you don't have to add on two stone to your riding weight, if you are careful  I think you might get the additional Weight  to a stone and a half  but even with the most lightweight saddle at 4.5 kg (and I don't see any lighter apart from children's saddles and racing saddles 4.5 kilos is still 10lbs)  

I don't see how you can cut it back more.    

Lots of people have been commenting saying its okay a 14 hand native can carry 14 st, maybe it can but in reality with a 14 st rider it will be carrying  15 stone 7 minimum, and that's different.

No one on here has said the OP was too heavy to ride (sorry OP)  just that at 14 stone, this would mean riding at 15 stone 7lbs and this will be too heavy for a 14 hander.  Im sure your 15.1 with 10 inches of bone would be fine, but the OP was asking about a 14 hander


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## Leo Walker (23 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			No one on here has said the OP was too heavy to ride (sorry OP)  just that at 14 stone, this would mean riding at 15 stone 7lbs and this will be too heavy for a 14 hander.  Im sure your 15.1 with 10 inches of bone would be fine, but the OP was asking about a 14 hander
		
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I see this all the time on here, yet my vets, chiro/osteo, instructor, any professional I have ever used says my 14.1hh cob is fine carrying 16 stone for steady work. They have weight carrying classes at the New Forest show for NF ponies and I'm pretty sure they are expected to carry 13 stone, plus tack. So why do opinions differ so much on here from the opinions of qualified people?


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## Smurf's Gran (23 May 2015)

FrankieCob said:



			I see this all the time on here, yet my vets, chiro/osteo, instructor, any professional I have ever used says my 14.1hh cob is fine carrying 16 stone for steady work. They have weight carrying classes at the New Forest show and I'm pretty sure they are expected to carry 13 stone, plus tack. So why do opinions differ so much on here from the opinions of qualified people?
		
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link has been deleted, I'll look for another


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## Smurf's Gran (23 May 2015)

FrankieCob said:



			I see this all the time on here, yet my vets, chiro/osteo, instructor, any professional I have ever used says my 14.1hh cob is fine carrying 16 stone for steady work. They have weight carrying classes at the New Forest show for NF ponies and I'm pretty sure they are expected to carry 13 stone, plus tack. So why do opinions differ so much on here from the opinions of qualified people?
		
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This is why 

http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-experts/horse-vet-advice/safe-weight-horse-carry.aspx

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/heavy-riders-have-impact-on-horse-welfare-and-industry-387319

http://www.horsesciencenews.com/horseback-riding/how-much-weight-can-a-horse-carry.php

I think horses / ponies can carry heavy weights, its whether or not they should I suppose


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## sarahw123 (23 May 2015)

FrankieCob said:



			I see this all the time on here, yet my vets, chiro/osteo, instructor, any professional I have ever used says my 14.1hh cob is fine carrying 16 stone for steady work. They have weight carrying classes at the New Forest show for NF ponies and I'm pretty sure they are expected to carry 13 stone, plus tack. So why do opinions differ so much on here from the opinions of qualified people?[/


I don't know. Although, if you are a client and they are taking your business, it's not unheard of for them to tell you what you want to hear. That's probably a bad phrase to use and slightly harsh, but I have witnessed professionals play things both up and down to suit the client. 

It's obviously a mixed bag of opinions. The age old 'just because they could, does that mean they should' applies here.

I'm of the opinion that if you are overweight, (I'm not saying 14st is overweight per-se, but we are all adults - we all know what weight we should be at according to age/height/build etc)  then why expect an animal to carry you?
		
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## cobgoblin (23 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			Sorry to be picky but a light weight saddle is more like half a stone not a stone. My jumping saddle is 7kgs and I wouldn't call that a light weight saddle.  Many synthetics are 4.5kgs or less.
		
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You have to add in the stirrups and leathers as I didn't put them into my bits and bobs weigh in. Most synthetic saddles are around 5.5-6kg.


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## Leo Walker (23 May 2015)

It was never telling me what I wanted to hear. It was people saying that I was being ridiculous for not riding him, so not people agreeing with me already riding him, if that makes sense? although I can see how that would happen


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## FfionWinnie (23 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			You have to add in the stirrups and leathers as I didn't put them into my bits and bobs weigh in. Most synthetic saddles are around 5.5-6kg.
		
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I've just weighed my synthetic thorowgood saddle with leathers and composite stirrups, girth and numnah and it's 5.2kgs in total.


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## MamaPonio (23 May 2015)

Wowzers, lots more replies since I checked last night!  I've been having a good think about it and I'm definitely leaning towards a 15.2 ID/Cob type - like a few people have said, what if I never manage to lose the weight or what if I lose it, buy dream horse then gain too much to ride it?  I've always loved hunter types so it's not as if I'd feel disappointed about owning one!  We're on a new yard with loads of fab hacking, the kids want to go out through the summer holidays and instead of walking (although it is good exercise!) it would be so lovely if I could ride out with them.


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## FfionWinnie (23 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			Wowzers, lots more replies since I checked last night!  I've been having a good think about it and I'm definitely leaning towards a 15.2 ID/Cob type - like a few people have said, what if I never manage to lose the weight or what if I lose it, buy dream horse then gain too much to ride it?  I've always loved hunter types so it's not as if I'd feel disappointed about owning one!  We're on a new yard with loads of fab hacking, the kids want to go out through the summer holidays and instead of walking (although it is good exercise!) it would be so lovely if I could ride out with them.
		
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I think that's a good decision. Hopefully once you have the horse you will find it easier to lose weight anyway, if you want to, but you won't feel compelled to or have to worry about it a lot, which tends to stop you losing weight anyway.


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 May 2015)

Good grief! You lot should go no where near the show ring then! 'Larger' riders on natives - yes Fells, Dales, Welsh etc ... And then you get the riders of some of the ex-racers out there ... Sometimes I do believe the only reason the horse is behaving is because it is so bogged down with weight it can't do anything but! 

OP - Personally I would think a large native breed or a cob from 13.2-14hh upwards would be absolutely fine. Especially as you say you are on a diet. 9/10 you are going to buy a pony that is over weight so you can give both of you a goal to work towards weight wise.


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## MamaPonio (23 May 2015)

http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/113087298/152-pretty-traditional-mare-for-sale.html

What do you reckon?  She's only 6 though, may be best to get a little older and 100% fully matured one with me being on the plump side


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## FfionWinnie (23 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/113087298/152-pretty-traditional-mare-for-sale.html

What do you reckon?  She's only 6 though, may be best to get a little older and 100% fully matured one with me being on the plump side 

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I don't like the bucks into canter or the front shoes as it gets foot sore. Both could be something (or nothing) to worry about.


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## MamaPonio (23 May 2015)

True!  I mean she's the first one I've really looked at, there's lots advertised - I was slightly snobby about 'preloved' at first but there seems to be some decent horses on there  

What do you think about her build etc?  I've seen some lovely show cobs/hunters but I really begrudge paying those prices when it'll mainly be used for happy hacking.  I'd like the potential to do more in the future but I'm not particularly into showing, especially when it's draining the bank account already for the kids, lol


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## cobgoblin (23 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/113087298/152-pretty-traditional-mare-for-sale.html

What do you reckon?  She's only 6 though, may be best to get a little older and 100% fully matured one with me being on the plump side 

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She's very pretty but only 5yrs ( the devil age!) so she hasn't widened out yet and probably has quite a bit of growing to do. Her sort will continue to grow until 8-9yrs.
The front feet would concern me unless she has been ridden very hard. The bucking might be balance, or might not.


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## FfionWinnie (23 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			True!  I mean she's the first one I've really looked at, there's lots advertised - I was slightly snobby about 'preloved' at first but there seems to be some decent horses on there  

What do you think about her build etc?  I've seen some lovely show cobs/hunters but I really begrudge paying those prices when it'll mainly be used for happy hacking.  I'd like the potential to do more in the future but I'm not particularly into showing, especially when it's draining the bank account already for the kids, lol
		
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I have bought two of the best horses I've ever owned through preloved...


And nearly been killed by another one lol. 

It's one to look at. I like how the ads are local first. Of course the ones I want are never local!


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## MamaPonio (23 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			I like how the ads are local first. Of course the ones I want are never local!
		
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Lol, same here!  I'll see a beautiful one, google the location (because my geography is appalling!) and it's like 200 odd miles away  I wouldn't mind that for something special but not for this one.


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## sarahandwilby (24 May 2015)

Whatever you do, if you are in any doubts as to if you might be too big for the horse you're going to try, ask the seller their opinion before going to try! 

I had a lady ring up about my 6 year old 15.2hh weedy TB when he was for sale, bearing in mind all the photos were of me (5ft3, 7.5 stone at the time) on him, and then when she turned up she must have weighed twice as much as he was used to. I felt it would be too rude to say she couldn't get on him (especially as they'd travelled some distance), so poor Wilby had to take matters into his own hands and grunted when she got on and then wouldn't do any more than the worlds slowest walk. Poor boy  I felt awful for him!

However, it sounds like you're being far more sensible in the type of horse you're looking for! Good luck


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## Smurf's Gran (24 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			I don't like the bucks into canter or the front shoes as it gets foot sore. Both could be something (or nothing) to worry about.
		
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Me neither, green horses are more likely to run into canter.  I have owned two who have sometimes bucked into canter, one was a young cob who we later discovered had OCD and needed surgery ( but then recovered 100%)  and another was my daughters pony - we later found out he had PSD and spavin


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## burtie (24 May 2015)

I used to worry about how much weight my horse could carry, yet he struggles to hold weight, last summer he put on over 100kgs (measured on weigh scales) which is far more than I'd ever put on his back, yet he still carried my quite happily even though I was at my heaviest ever! He's now back down about 75kgs and about right, I've also lost about 10kgs and feel much better but I don't think he's even noticed!!! Anyway, I think as long as the horse/pony is fit and healthy they can carry a lot more than some are making out. I can't believe that are many men in this country under 12 stone these days and many of our top show jumpers must be over this and jump horses at the top of the sport daily! 14 stone should be easy for the full up height and weight highlands, welshes, haffies etc but I'd want to go no smaller than 14.2hh really.


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## Smurf's Gran (24 May 2015)

burtie said:



			I used to worry about how much weight my horse could carry, yet he struggles to hold weight, last summer he put on over 100kgs (measured on weigh scales) which is far more than I'd ever put on his back, yet he still carried my quite happily even though I was at my heaviest ever! He's now back down about 75kgs and about right, I've also lost about 10kgs and feel much better but I don't think he's even noticed!!! Anyway, I think as long as the horse/pony is fit and healthy they can carry a lot more than some are making out. I can't believe that are many men in this country under 12 stone these days and many of our top show jumpers must be over this and jump horses at the top of the sport daily! 14 stone should be easy for the full up height and weight highlands, welshes, haffies etc but I'd want to go no smaller than 14.2hh really.
		
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........


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## mynutmeg (24 May 2015)

If it helps I'm a little more than you and have a 15'1 cob mare who has no problem with me at all - it's just about the right horse, I wouldn't go sitting on a 15'1 tb type as they wouldn't be ok with me but a stockier horse is fine. A big part of it is how 'heavy' you ride by which I mean a physically heavier rider who is well balanced and doens't thump about on the horse is going to be easier for them to carry than a bit lighter rider who lurches everywhere, bounces up and down and thumps on their back


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## Marchogaeth (24 May 2015)

I can't think of a single 14hh native that would carry 14stone...&#128533;
My 14.2hh Sufolk Punch X New Forest can't manage more than 12st -personally I won't even have that on him for very long!!
15.2hh plus with substantial bone and short strong back would be more ideal!


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## Wiz201 (24 May 2015)

if you have to dismount on a hack, you can always find a wall or a gate to mount from. In a middle of a field? Walk for a little bit, won't do your horse any harm!
I rode a 15hh cob when I was 16 stone and he was fine, when I was 14 stone I was once put on a 14hh pony (felt tiny lol) but carried me fine.


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## MotherOfChickens (24 May 2015)

Marchogaeth said:



			I can't think of a single 14hh native that would carry 14stone...&#55357;&#56853;
		
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erm, stalking Highlands carry huge stags that weight more than that, and at 15h as suggested here by some, would be overheight and overheight natives are sometimes not true to type and lacking bone. I realise its just in walk but often on tough, steep terrain. A decent 14.2h  old school haffie or Section D (if you can find one) should be able to cope with that weight as well, especially if OP is sensible about saddle fit and what they do together until some weight is lost.


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## Kallibear (24 May 2015)

The mare you linked is def the type of horse you should be looking for BUT bear in mind that many of these bigger cobs are Clydesdale X and end up with very shallow, weak loins. It makes them very poor weight carriers.  A 14hh pony with very wide thick loins will find you far easier to carry than a sloping loined 15.2 cob (regardless of how much bone it has). I've got the classic example. My friends 14.1 highland mare is a far better weight carrier than my 15.3 HW (clydesdale X) cob. Her mare is short and wide across the loins whilst my mare, although heavily boned and feathered,  is longer in the back and weak through the loins.

Have a look at 14.2 Highlands,  if you want something quiet and not too tall. There's an awful lot you can do with a Highland simply because of its breed (a lot of showing esp). A big mature Highland will EASILY carry 14st plus tack. They are a LOT of horse in a small package.  There's a big difference between the full height Highlands and the smaller 13.3/14 versions.


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## MamaPonio (24 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			The mare you linked is def the type of horse you should be looking for BUT bear in mind that many of these bigger cobs are Clydesdale X and end up with very shallow, weak loins. It makes them very poor weight carriers.  A 14hh pony with very wide thick loins will find you far easier to carry than a sloping loined 15.2 cob (regardless of how much bone it has). I've got the classic example. My friends 14.1 highland mare is a far better weight carrier than my 15.3 HW (clydesdale X) cob. Her mare is short and wide across the loins whilst my mare, although heavily boned and feathered,  is longer in the back and weak through the loins.

Have a look at 14.2 Highlands,  if you want something quiet and not too tall. There's an awful lot you can do with a Highland simply because of its breed (a lot of showing esp). A big mature Highland will EASILY carry 14st plus tack. They are a LOT of horse in a small package.  There's a big difference between the full height Highlands and the smaller 13.3/14 versions.
		
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Thanks Kallibear, I love Highlands but haven't found anything in my price range unfortunately.  Since the pony/horse will only be used for pleasure - hacking, beach rides, bit of light schooling - I begrudge spending too much out as well as not wanting to get a top quality horse and it be wasted with me!


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## MamaPonio (24 May 2015)

http://www.horsemart.co.uk/lovely-middleweight-all-rounder-mare/Horses/419184#Oom5sovb6rFzE8ki.97

???  I quite like her, although I might be hesitant to risk another chestnut mare considering our sec a well and truly lives up to the name, lol!!


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## Gloi (24 May 2015)

Marchogaeth said:



			I can't think of a single 14hh native that would carry 14stone...&#128533;
		
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Besides the Highlands a substantial Fell or a Dales is perfectly capable, especially when conditioned to it.


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## MamaPonio (24 May 2015)

Gloi said:



			Besides the Highlands a substantial Fell or a Dales is perfectly capable, especially when conditioned to it.
		
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It's funny you should say that, I've just this minute been looking at Fells. There's plenty of people on different forums who say they're a similar weight and their Fell is easily up to carrying them. I've seen an advert for a 14hh fell that's only 40 mins away, I'll probably give the owner a call and see what they think.


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## cobgoblin (24 May 2015)

Marchogaeth said:



			I can't think of a single 14hh native that would carry 14stone...&#128533;
		
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Nor can I.
14hh is very small.


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## [59668] (24 May 2015)

The thing is that a lot will also depend on how balanced you are as a rider. And comparing 14stone of Man to 14 stone of overweight woman is not the same. A man will be more lean at that weight and will feel different to the horse. Imagine carrying a stone of unbalanced water in a backpack compared to a stone of something less wobbly. I'm not saying that being overweight automatically makes you a bad rider or unbalanced. But this is something else to bear in mind. Also as someone else has said about the size of the saddle and will you fit in it. I think you'd be better off making a concerted effort to lose the weight,  feeling better and being healthier and then you will have so much more choice.


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## ozpoz (24 May 2015)

14hh natives will carry 14 stone, but whether they should, and how long they'll stay sound is another matter.

Ask yourself "does my bum look big on this? " (it will) and move up a size to something that suits you both better.


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## Kallibear (24 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			Thanks Kallibear, I love Highlands but haven't found anything in my price range unfortunately.  Since the pony/horse will only be used for pleasure - hacking, beach rides, bit of light schooling - I begrudge spending too much out as well as not wanting to get a top quality horse and it be wasted with me!
		
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Yes, sadly Highlands are expensive,  esp the full height mature ones who are sensible.  You'd be looking at a minimum of £3k. But having said that you're average 15.2 cob is expensive as well, esp anything that can be described as a weight carrier and sensible. 14hh cobs are ten a penny and £500 as sensible 4yr olds ( they're harder to find as sensible been-there done-that 8yr olds tho!) but decent solid 15.2hh-ers are surprisingly difficult to find!! They're either very young or green, have an issue or are elderly. I've been looking for a larger weight carrier for a friend ( significantly heavier that you though! ) and it's been amazingly difficult. Eventually found a Comtios but it wasn't cheap!!

If you don't need something very sensible and experienced that will make it easier but then it's unlikely to be suitable for your daughter ( if that's what you still desire).

When looking make sure the first thing you look at is its back. It needs to be WIDE, flat and short across the loins.  Forget leg bone: almost without exceptions anything with the correct back conformation will have decent bone.


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## laura_nash (24 May 2015)

Gloi said:



			Besides the Highlands a substantial Fell or a Dales is perfectly capable, especially when conditioned to it.
		
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This would be my opinion too - you want to look at breeds that are bred to carry weight rather than pull it, even if they are a bit smaller.


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## Kallibear (24 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			It's funny you should say that, I've just this minute been looking at Fells. There's plenty of people on different forums who say they're a similar weight and their Fell is easily up to carrying them. I've seen an advert for a 14hh fell that's only 40 mins away, I'll probably give the owner a call and see what they think.
		
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My friend has a 14hh Fell. In fact there's a couple in the area. None are particularly good weight carriers and feel about half the size of a 14hh Highland! I'm tall but only 10st and happily ride various 14hh Highlands but don't feel comfortable on a 14hh Fell.

Plus they're also PITA's!

The Chestnut mare you linked looks a sensible type and does appear to have a decent back on her. She may look ( and feel) different in the flesh but if she's a big 15hh (as opposed to a 14.2-and-a-little-bit-but-15hh-sounds-better)) then she may be suitable.  Go and see her if she's close? 


P.s if you've got £2.5k to spend you'll easily find a nice Highland up here. It'll be a bit green but nothing wrong with it. Mind you it's a hell of a trek if you're in Kent or somewhere equally foreign


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## FfionWinnie (24 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			Nor can I.
14hh is very small.
		
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It really isn't if it's the right type.


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## cobgoblin (24 May 2015)

Most 14hh ponies will take a maximum of a 16.5-17" saddle, that usually being a 'cob' type saddle, so probably equivalent to a 16" regular saddle. If they take a longer saddle, they will have a long and therefore weaker back.
OP if you are thinking of trying a 14hh pony, I suggest you sit in one of these saddles and see if you have a full hands width behind you to the cantle.


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## FfionWinnie (24 May 2015)

Here's my somewhere under 14.2 cob. (Need to measure her again, she was 14.2 with an extra inch of hoof and shoes on when I bought her!). She weighs 508kg (scales not weigh tape). She is approaching eventing fit, lean, very strong, tip top condition.  Something like her or a little bigger would do your job, and if you rode it to keep it that fit, would also help you shift the weight


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## Gloi (24 May 2015)

It's only because you are not used to it that you don't feel comfortable on them. I had Fells for years when I was a bit younger and a solidly built one will carry weight easily especially when fit. Vetted in every time after 25 - 35 mile distance rides back in the day carrying 12 stone so a bit more in lighter work would be no problem. A saddle which spreads weight over a large area helps avoid pressure points.


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## MamaPonio (24 May 2015)

[59668] said:



			The thing is that a lot will also depend on how balanced you are as a rider. And comparing 14stone of Man to 14 stone of overweight woman is not the same. A man will be more lean at that weight and will feel different to the horse. Imagine carrying a stone of unbalanced water in a backpack compared to a stone of something less wobbly. I'm not saying that being overweight automatically makes you a bad rider or unbalanced. But this is something else to bear in mind. Also as someone else has said about the size of the saddle and will you fit in it. I think you'd be better off making a concerted effort to lose the weight,  feeling better and being healthier and then you will have so much more choice.
		
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Yes, I'm still in two minds about what to do  Funnily enough, I don't actually look that big and I'm not worried about saddle size. I'd like to think I'm a balanced rider who rides lightly or I was anyway, I haven't rode for quite a while. 

I can't decide what to do!!!!


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## Kallibear (24 May 2015)

Gloi said:



			It's only because you are not used to it that you don't feel comfortable on them. I had Fells for years when I was a bit younger and a solidly built one will carry weight easily especially when fit. Vetted in every time after 25 - 35 mile distance rides back in the day carrying 12 stone so a bit more in lighter work would be no problem. A saddle which spreads weight over a large area helps avoid pressure points.
		
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My point was that 14hh of Highland is a lot more pony than 14hh of Fell. So if the OP really does want a 14hh Native, and feel confident about it's weight carrying ability, then small Highland will be more suitable than a large Fell.


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## mega spoilt ponies (24 May 2015)

Perhaps im soft but i certainly wouldn't put 14 stones on that skewbald pictured above, or anything less that a 15.2 HW (built like a brick @&£)house). Im of the, they may be 'able' to carry the weight, but should they have to camp


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## Kallibear (24 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			Yes, I'm still in two minds about what to do  Funnily enough, I don't actually look that big and I'm not worried about saddle size. I'd like to think I'm a balanced rider who rides lightly or I was anyway, I haven't rode for quite a while. 

I can't decide what to do!!!!
		
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Try some suitable looking horses. It's the only way you'll know.  Be completed happy in your head that it's ok carrying you now (and after you've eaten cake. Everyone loves cake). Loosing weight is hard so you need to be realistic about the potential of not loosing any. As you sound sensible and aware that you're a larger rider (believe me, there's plenty of people who aren't! !)   you'll be your own worst critic. And from experience of heavier, conscientious,  friends you'll do nothing but fret and worry if you're not 110% happy with the horses weight carrying ability.  So don't get something that will just 'manage' or 'cope' or you have doubts about. Get something you feel utterly confident doesn't even notice you on its back. 

You are by no means at all too heavy to ride but for you to feel happy and confident you're going to need the right horse.

P.s just noticed you say you've not ridden for a long time. In which case you'll be unfit (for riding) and will probably find you're a little nervous. You'll also find your balance is poor initially,  esp if you've put weight on since you last rode. A decent weight carrier who's sensible is therefore extra especially important


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## Elf On A Shelf (24 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			My friend has a 14hh Fell. In fact there's a couple in the area. None are particularly good weight carriers and feel about half the size of a 14hh Highland! I'm tall but only 10st and happily ride various 14hh Highlands but don't feel comfortable on a 14hh Fell.

Plus they're also PITA's!
		
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I take offense to that! Fell ponies mmost certainly are not PITA's!!! My fell was one of the best, most honest, genuine ponies you could ever wish to meet. Carried weighy not a problem. Showed, hunted, galloped with racehorses, did a bit of everything. And he was 'only 13.2hh' but he rode more like a 15.2hh as he was built like a brick outhouse!


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## Smurf's Gran (24 May 2015)

whats a PITA


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## Kallibear (24 May 2015)

EKW said:



			I take offense to that! Fell ponies mmost certainly are not PITA's!!! My fell was one of the best, most honest, genuine ponies you could ever wish to meet. Carried weighy not a problem. Showed, hunted, galloped with racehorses, did a bit of everything. And he was 'only 13.2hh' but he rode more like a 15.2hh as he was built like a brick outhouse!
		
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Yes, I know they're not all difficult but they do have a reputation, which I have so far found well founded  My friend grew up in Fell country too and always said the goods where amazing but there's plenty of awful (but pretty!)  They do also ride far bigger than their measured size but still a 14hh Highland is a lot bigger than a 14hh Fell.

Smurf: PITA = pain in the ass.


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## Orangehorse (24 May 2015)

If you weigh 8 stone, then anyone larger seems to be huge.

Highlands were bred to carry stags off Scotish mountains, stags are heavy, dead weight and mountains are steep, i.e. Highlands are weight carriers.
Fells and Dales were used to carry panniers of lead, they were heavy too, as above.
Halflingers also come from mountainous regions, and there was a Halfinger stud that did lots of endurance races, and the owner was, um, how can I put this delicately, larger than average.  These were fit, taking part in endurance and being regularly checked by vets.
And how about Western riding where biggish men ride Quarter horses that are usually around 15.00.  I can't even lift my western saddle.

Having said all that, I have recently lost one stone, and my 16.00hh strong horse seems much more lively.


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## FfionWinnie (24 May 2015)

mega spoilt ponies said:



			Perhaps im soft but i certainly wouldn't put 14 stones on that skewbald pictured above, or anything less that a 15.2 HW (built like a brick @&£)house). Im of the, they may be 'able' to carry the weight, but should they have to camp
		
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You've missed my point entirely. A vague description of a HW 15.2 doesn't mean its remotely able to carry more weight than a properly muscled fit cob or highland.  

Also, bear in mind the cob pictured is completely clipped out, which shows you what you have, instead of a mountain of hair and fat making it look like a bigger, yet in reality weaker, animal. 

I wouldn't go for a fell personally, and a Welsh D will not carry what a cob or highland will in my opinion, nor will it look like it can.  Plus welsh Ds tend to be highly strung.


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## Cinnamontoast (24 May 2015)

Archangel said:



			Personally I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get another horse, the weight is going to prey on your mind -  set a target of say 3 months to make some of the surplus go away and then get the dream horse and off you go.   In the meantime you could get yourself ready by thrashing a bike about the place (my bike regularly just lays down on corners or bucks me off so all good practice).
		
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PMSL! This is encouraging me to get mine out of the shed and thrash it round a bit. Hope it doesn't buck me off!



FfionWinnie said:



			Sorry to be picky but a light weight saddle is more like half a stone not a stone. My jumping saddle is 7kgs and I wouldn't call that a light weight saddle.  Many synthetics are 4.5kgs or less.
		
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FfionWinnie said:



			I've just weighed my synthetic thorowgood saddle with leathers and composite stirrups, girth and numnah and it's 5.2kgs in total.
		
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My Thorowgood synthetic plus plastic stirrups weighs over a stone.


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## Cinnamontoast (24 May 2015)

Archangel said:



			Personally I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get another horse, the weight is going to prey on your mind -  set a target of say 3 months to make some of the surplus go away and then get the dream horse and off you go.   In the meantime you could get yourself ready by thrashing a bike about the place (my bike regularly just lays down on corners or bucks me off so all good practice).
		
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PMSL! This is encouraging me to get mine out of the shed and thrash it round a bit. Hope it doesn't buck me off!



FfionWinnie said:



			Sorry to be picky but a light weight saddle is more like half a stone not a stone. My jumping saddle is 7kgs and I wouldn't call that a light weight saddle.  Many synthetics are 4.5kgs or less.
		
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FfionWinnie said:



			I've just weighed my synthetic thorowgood saddle with leathers and composite stirrups, girth and numnah and it's 5.2kgs in total.
		
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My Thorowgood synthetic plus plastic stirrups weighs over a stone, or about 6.5kg, I think.


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## cobgoblin (24 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			Yes, I'm still in two minds about what to do  Funnily enough, I don't actually look that big and I'm not worried about saddle size. I'd like to think I'm a balanced rider who rides lightly or I was anyway, I haven't rode for quite a while. 

I can't decide what to do!!!!
		
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Just buy a horse that is of suitable size and weight carrying capacity for you now. You may lose a little or a lot of weight ( I hope you do), or , something may happen and you may gain some. You don't want to be consumed by guilt every time you ride because you're not sure if you're too heavy, nor do you need people sniggering behind your back.
I think you definitely need to look for something bigger than 14 hh. I didn't intend to have a 14 hh - he just didn't grow as much as expected, and I watch my weight like a hawk because it's not fair that he has to carry more than is necessary. Plus I want to give him every opportunity to stay sound for the rest of his life.
I know you say that you are not worried about saddle size, but you may wish to reconsider that when I tell you that I am a size 10-12, leaning more to size 10, and with a 17" cob saddle I have one hands breadth behind me. I might be ok in a 16.5" but definitely no smaller than that.


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## Leo Walker (24 May 2015)

Mine is 14.1hh ish, not 100% as I measure him with a B&Q tape measure and a whip :lol: He is a tank of a horse! I actually paid someone to come out and specifically assess him. There was no pressure on her to say "yes, ok ride him" as I wasnt riding him at the time and wasnt bothered either way. He is very wide across the loins and she said he has one of the best and most supple backs shes ever seen. She also said hes very correct conformation wise, something vets etc have all said, which helps. Might be her giving me flannel, but going on the fact the vets, another back person , an instructor etc, etc, all say to ride him, I'm inclined to believe her. Hes a compact little thing, but currently has a 17.5" GFS saddle. Its actually bigger than I would prefer as despite being fat, I dont actually have an enormous arse  but it was a bargain so I bought it. It was professionally fitted. 

I think its very hard for a lot of people to visualise what 14 stone looks like, and it really does seem an enormous weight if you weigh 9 stone


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## Barnacle (24 May 2015)

Someone earlier posted 3 links to articles about the weight carrying ability of horses according to a controlled scientific study yet somehow everyone's still just throwing around personal opinions.

Get a horse that weighs at least 5 times what you do (healthy weight for it) and has a wide loin. Then it will actually be unstressed and not just 'look' able and you won't have to worry about it.


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## Highlands (24 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			My friend has a 14hh Fell. In fact there's a couple in the area. None are particularly good weight carriers and feel about half the size of a 14hh Highland! I'm tall but only 10st and happily ride various 14hh Highlands but don't feel comfortable on a 14hh Fell.

Plus they're also PITA's!

The Chestnut mare you linked looks a sensible type and does appear to have a decent back on her. She may look ( and feel) different in the flesh but if she's a big 15hh (as opposed to a 14.2-and-a-little-bit-but-15hh-sounds-better)) then she may be suitable.  Go and see her if she's close? 


P.s if you've got £2.5k to spend you'll easily find a nice Highland up here. It'll be a bit green but nothing wrong with it. Mind you it's a hell of a trek if you're
 in Kent or somewhere equally foreign

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Yes agree, you can find a highland cheaper, if you don't want to show consider one with a white foot or an ex trekking pony. Highlands keep their value too, yes for my gelding I paid over 3k as a three year old but he's won a lot. Both mares were less, unbroken but both weight their weight in gold especially my youngster who has a glowing report from her breaker! Transport is expensive but share loads are easy to come by.


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## Leo Walker (24 May 2015)

Barnacle said:



			Someone earlier posted 3 links to articles about the weight carrying ability of horses according to a controlled scientific study yet somehow everyone's still just throwing around personal opinions.

Get a horse that weighs at least 5 times what you do (healthy weight for it) and has a wide loin. Then it will actually be unstressed and not just 'look' able and you won't have to worry about it.
		
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Mine isnt a personal opinion  My personal opinion was I was too heavy, but having been told I wasn't by several professional people, I paid someone to assess him, and her opinion was that I wasnt too heavy. I am yet to speak to a professional person who says I am too heavy, yet the majority on here would say I am. So who is right? I used to believe the opinions on here, but when the first vet told me I was stupid and just to get on a ride the damn thing, followed by countless others, I decided to at least try and decide for myself. 

My boy carries me just fine and goes better for me than anyone else. He can be funny about other people getting on, but stands stock still with a loose rein at the mounting block. He can also be nappy and difficult in the school for other people yet I have no issues.

I do still stress about it when I read threads like this, but then I remember that no one other than people on line say I'm too heavy, and that he goes significantly better for me than anyone else. I will no doubt be very sorry if he breaks down from carrying my fat carcass about, but I honestly dont think that is going to happen, so I wont worry about it too much


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## Pigeon (24 May 2015)

Perhaps the problem is people are too embarrassed to say it in person? 

I'm sure you are fine, and the proof will be in the way the horse moves. But yeah, you do have to be objective about these things. I keep seeing the most gorgeous ponies but there is no way I could ride something smaller than my current horse, who is 15.1h. 

I personally would feel a little weird dismissing scientific studies. I guess perhaps I'd listen to a vet's take on it, not an instructors. However! It's worth remembering that every horse can move better with no rider at all...


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## rara007 (24 May 2015)

My dad and my sister (both over 12 stone) share a 14.1 cob (146.3 LHC Obv without shoes). He easily takes them + a 17.5 inch saddle. He'd take 14 stone easily 

https://sophiecallahan.wordpress.com/2015/04/08/millie-frankie-equine-photography-essex/


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## risky business (25 May 2015)

Just as a side note...

Since when did riding gear add two stone in weight?! What are you guys wearing,  lead boots? 

Wearing my jods, a top, my jumper, riding hat and boots may add a few pounds but two stone.. I don't think so.


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## Kallibear (25 May 2015)

risky business said:



			Just as a side note...

Since when did riding gear add two stone in weight?! What are you guys wearing,  lead boots? 

Wearing my jods, a top, my jumper, riding hat and boots may add a few pounds but two stone.. I don't think so.
		
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They mean tack too. Although the arguing over detail of synthetic v leather +/- plastic stirrups and bridle is a bit of a moot point: if you've needing to contemplate such minor weight differences as the difference between Can and Can't then the horse isn't up to the weight in the first place!


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## Kat (25 May 2015)

rara007 said:



			My dad and my sister (both over 12 stone) share a 14.1 cob (146.3 LHC Obv without shoes). He easily takes them + a 17.5 inch saddle. He'd take 14 stone easily 

https://sophiecallahan.wordpress.com/2015/04/08/millie-frankie-equine-photography-essex/

Click to expand...

Now that is a good weight carrier! Beautiful pony. 

OP, seriously consider the saddle size you require and what the horse/pony can take. We had this issue with my husband and our horse and ended up going treeless to give him more space (he's very tall not overweight). A too small saddle is horribly uncomfortable and it is very bad for the horse's back if you are spilling over the back of the saddle. 

I am not against larger riders on smaller ponies, I am 5'8" and could do with losing weight but I ride a 13.2hh Fjord for a friend. She takes my leg up well and copes well with my weight but I couldn't manage in a smaller saddle. If I weighed 14st I wouldn't fit in the saddle without putting too much pressure on the cantle.


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## Leo Walker (25 May 2015)

Pigeon said:



			Perhaps the problem is people are too embarrassed to say it in person?
		
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Nope. I didnt ride him, and when my vet asked what I did with him and I said I didnt ride as I was too heavy, he told me not to be so stupid, in slightly harsher words :lol: I didnt believe him. 2 further vets said the same thing, as did a very well respected back lady, the saddle fitter, my instructor and randomly the dentist! All as part of conversations where I said I didn't ride him as I'm too heavy based on what I kept reading on here.

So I paid for another impartial person, a Mctimoney chiropractor and classical dressage instructor to come out and assess him specifically as a weight carrier, with the understanding that as far as I was concerned I was too heavy and didnt care about riding him anyway. She said he was absolutely fine, had good muscle tone and an amazing back that was incredibly strong and also very supple. So I gave in and rode him expecting him to keel over. He didnt :lol: He had been napping with his other riders and not standing at the block and just being a bit stroppy and unhappy. He doesnt do any of that with me and I've actually stopped anyone else riding him as he clearly wasnt happy with them.

I'll be honest, I dont ride him much, or for long. We do half an hour mainly walk hacks and some light schooling, with the odd 100yds of trot and I am very careful to be light and balanced when I ride.


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## Leo Walker (25 May 2015)

this is mine:







Its taken at a weird angle which makes him look like he has a huge much higher bum and no front, but hes a tank all over and pretty level now he has stopped growing :lol:


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			They mean tack too. Although the arguing over detail of synthetic v leather +/- plastic stirrups and bridle is a bit of a moot point: if you've needing to contemplate such minor weight differences as the difference between Can and Can't then the horse isn't up to the weight in the first place!
		
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How can it be moot? It's exactly the point. If a pony is good to carry 14 stone then it can carry 14 stone and within that the rider could be 13 stone if she could get her tack down to a stone (tough job but possible). If she is 12.7 and her tack 2 stone then that's half a stone over her ideal limit. 

If the rider were nine stone then she could use a twenty pound saddle (and there are plenty of those). I don't understand your logic here. There are no minor weight differences when you start looking at shaving a whole stone off the weight of your tack by making some simple changes.


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## Kallibear (25 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			How can it be moot? It's exactly the point. If a pony is good to carry 14 stone then it can carry 14 stone and within that the rider could be 13 stone if she could get her tack down to a stone (tough job but possible). If she is 12.7 and her tack 2 stone then that's half a stone over her ideal limit. 

If the rider were nine stone then she could use a twenty pound saddle (and there are plenty of those). I don't understand your logic here. There are no minor weight differences when you start looking at shaving a whole stone off the weight of your tack by making some simple changes.
		
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If the difference between can and can't is only 1/2 a stone of tack (poss a stone at most) then the rider is too close to the border to be fair. Yes, synthetic lightweight tack give the horse a slightly lighter load but if a rider 'needs' the lightweight tack to be able to ride that horse then actually they need a bigger horse!!
If the OP (or any larger rider) wanted to shave a little off for a horse that carries her weight easily, regardless,  that's great. But suggesting she can get away with a horse that's really too small for her by quibbling over less than a stones worth of tack isn't fair for the pony.


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## Smurf's Gran (25 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			If the difference between can and can't is only 1/2 a stone of tack (poss a stone at most) then the rider is too close to the border to be fair. Yes, synthetic lightweight tack give the horse a slightly lighter load but if a rider 'needs' the lightweight tack to be able to ride that horse then actually they need a bigger horse!!
If the OP (or any larger rider) wanted to shave a little off for a horse that carries her weight easily, regardless,  that's great. But suggesting she can get away with a horse that's really too small for her by quibbling over less than a stones worth of tack isn't fair for the pony.
		
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Agree with this.

I would also say that just because a horse can carry more weight (more than the 20% guideline) doesn't mean it should do this on a regular basis with its main rider being over the one who is over the guideline.


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## cobgoblin (25 May 2015)

Cc



Kallibear said:



			If the difference between can and can't is only 1/2 a stone of tack (poss a stone at most) then the rider is too close to the border to be fair. Yes, synthetic lightweight tack give the horse a slightly lighter load but if a rider 'needs' the lightweight tack to be able to ride that horse then actually they need a bigger horse!!
If the OP (or any larger rider) wanted to shave a little off for a horse that carries her weight easily, regardless,  that's great. But suggesting she can get away with a horse that's really too small for her by quibbling over less than a stones worth of tack isn't fair for the pony.
		
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I agree with this too!
If you have the choice, as the OP does, why buy a horse that is too small for your weight. Far better to have a bit of leaway for the peace of mind of the rider and the health and comfort of the horse.

Interestingly, In order to be a healthy weight at 14st, a woman should be a minimum of 6'2" tall. I wonder how many 6'2" women would contemplate buying and riding a 14hh pony?


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## MamaPonio (25 May 2015)

rara007 said:



			My dad and my sister (both over 12 stone) share a 14.1 cob (146.3 LHC Obv without shoes). He easily takes them + a 17.5 inch saddle. He'd take 14 stone easily 

https://sophiecallahan.wordpress.com/2015/04/08/millie-frankie-equine-photography-essex/

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Wow, now that is a beautiful horse!! I think I'd trade my soul for him ;-)

Eta - *pony!! I hadn't realised he was so small!!


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## MamaPonio (25 May 2015)

I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to increase the budget, I can't find anything suitable for under £3K and to be honest, I'd rather spend the money on a horse instead of it going towards a holiday! I think it's between a cob and ID I've seen a nice 15.3 HW cob, 12 years old been there done it type who looks fab. I need to confirm with YO when the stable will be available then I'm going to start looking properly. Best to have something sufficient for this weight then losing weight will be a bonus for the both of us rather than an absolute necessity.


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## Wagtail (25 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to increase the budget, I can't find anything suitable for under £3K and to be honest, I'd rather spend the money on a horse instead of it going towards a holiday! I think it's between a cob and ID I've seen a nice 15.3 HW cob, 12 years old been there done it type who looks fab. I need to confirm with YO when the stable will be available then I'm going to start looking properly. Best to have something sufficient for this weight then losing weight will be a bonus for the both of us rather than an absolute necessity.
		
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I think you are being very sensible! I would LOVE a pony but at 5'9 I would never buy one. I bought my little mare thinking she would make at least 15.2 because dam and sire were both around 16hh. But it is not to be. She's hardly grown at all and is still only around 14.3hh and a light/middleweight. I don't want to sell her and so I will need to carefully watch my weight for as long as I plan to ride her. I will also look very tall on her. Unfortunately that is not something I can change. So I say buy the horse that is suited to you NOW and it will save a lot of heartache later. Good luck.


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## JulesRules (25 May 2015)

Hi OP

Firstly, as many have agreed on you are not too fat to ride. 

I'm just over 13 stone and have a 15.3 warmblood with plenty of bone, although she also carried me happily when I weighed a bit more. She suits me and I don't think I would feel comfortable on a 14 hander 

Anyway, If you would like something smaller have you thought about looking at an Icelandic horse? 

http://ihsgb.co.uk/icelandic-horses/


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## Goldenstar (25 May 2015)

Hi again OP .
Your decision about  the budget and buying a horse up to your weight is wise .
The cheapest thing you ever do is buy the horse the real expense is after that  , keeping the horse .
You are not to heavy to ride the correct horse but a word of caution falling off is another matter , having been light and heavy and now in the middle I can tell you from experience that you feel the falls less when you are the correct weight for your height and build .   
Start that sensible eating plan now look for ways to make your day to day life more active even pushing to do jobs quicker makes a difference parking at the back of the car park not the front etc .
I had great fun with my fit bit ( till I lost it riding ) increasing my mileage per day in every day life and I saw the difference in my size at once .


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## MamaPonio (25 May 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			Hi again OP .
Your decision about  the budget and buying a horse up to your weight is wise .
The cheapest thing you ever do is buy the horse the real expense is after that  , keeping the horse .
You are not to heavy to ride the correct horse but a word of caution falling off is another matter , having been light and heavy and now in the middle I can tell you from experience that you feel the falls less when you are the correct weight for your height and build .   
Start that sensible eating plan now look for ways to make your day to day life more active even pushing to do jobs quicker makes a difference parking at the back of the car park not the front etc .
I had great fun with my fit bit ( till I lost it riding ) increasing my mileage per day in every day life and I saw the difference in my size at once .
		
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It's funny you should say that - I had a Charge up until losing it recently! I've still got the aria scales which link up with my fitness pal, that's a great motivation. I've managed to get down from 15 and a half by loosely sticking to healthy eating but I'm going to start slimming world for something more structured as the weight loss has plateaued of late. I doubt I'll ever be on the other side of 10 stone, I was a size 12 at 11.5 stone, I think I'd look awful at 8.5, it wouldn't be maintainable either without sticking to a diet for the rest of my days and I couldn't think of anything worse than a life without a few treats ;-)


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## MamaPonio (25 May 2015)

JulesRules said:



			Hi OP

Firstly, as many have agreed on you are not too fat to ride. 

I'm just over 13 stone and have a 15.3 warmblood with plenty of bone, although she also carried me happily when I weighed a bit more. She suits me and I don't think I would feel comfortable on a 14 hander 

Anyway, If you would like something smaller have you thought about looking at an Icelandic horse? 

http://ihsgb.co.uk/icelandic-horses/

Click to expand...

I absolutely love icelandics but there wasn't many about when I looked the other day, definitely something to bear in mind though


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			If the difference between can and can't is only 1/2 a stone of tack (poss a stone at most) then the rider is too close to the border to be fair. Yes, synthetic lightweight tack give the horse a slightly lighter load but if a rider 'needs' the lightweight tack to be able to ride that horse then actually they need a bigger horse!!
If the OP (or any larger rider) wanted to shave a little off for a horse that carries her weight easily, regardless,  that's great. But suggesting she can get away with a horse that's really too small for her by quibbling over less than a stones worth of tack isn't fair for the pony.
		
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You're missing the point - the border is the border whether you go up to it with your fat, its fat or tack. What's the point of a 'limit' if someone is then going to say that you have to be within so much of it? I don't think anyone here has made a poor suggestion regarding a pony.


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## cobgoblin (25 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			You're missing the point - the border is the border whether you go up to it with your fat, its fat or tack. What's the point of a 'limit' if someone is then going to say that you have to be within so much of it? I don't think anyone here has made a poor suggestion regarding a pony.
		
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I think you are the one that has missed the point, by quite a long way!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (25 May 2015)

Hi there

I'm 5ft1 and I was over 14 stone and was riding my 14.3hh Welsh d x appy on common tidings, hunting, jumping, endurance PC/RC you name it and he never had back issues or a problem carrying me. The pic of me jumping in my sig I'm about 13st there. As you can see he's not particularly heavy a cob type more hunter pony really.

He carried my 6ft4 OH on regular long rides and he was over 15 St due to his height and he never struggled. He was kept fit and active and saddle was correct fit and for the job required.

Don't beat yourself up, yes it's not great to be over weight, I'm now down to 10st ish and it's great but took me a while to get there and my horses never suffered for my weight. I even had a 15.2hh WBXTB and she also carried me perfectly fine with no back issues and she wasn't a chunky lady either.


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			I think you are the one that has missed the point, by quite a long way!
		
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Really? If a horses limit is 14 stone then it's 14 stone. How you get to it is up to you surely? If you're 14 stone and ride naked/without tack then you're still within it's recommended weight carrying limit. What point am I missing? 

There's no need to be rude by making a statement like that and not offering your thinking.


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## cobgoblin (25 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Really? If a horses limit is 14 stone then it's 14 stone. How you get to it is up to you surely? If you're 14 stone and ride naked/without tack then you're still within it's recommended weight carrying limit. What point am I missing? 

There's no need to be rude by making a statement like that and not offering your thinking.
		
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Why would you want a horse to carry the maximum it is capable of when there is the choice of looking for and buying, a horse that can carry ones weight easily, with extra capacity to spare. Especially as current thinking seems to be trending towards 15% being the ideal.
If a rider is so close to the horse's weight carrying capacity that synthetic tack has to be used, what happens if a synthetic saddle cannot be found that fits both horse and rider? Or you want to go on a picnic and put saddle bags on? Or it's winter and the rider needs a thick coat? All of these things weigh extra, besides which, the rider would have to be very careful never to gain any weight.
It is far more practical to have some leaway and nicer for the horse not to have to carry the maximum.


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			Why would you want a horse to carry the maximum it is capable of when there is the choice of looking for and buying, a horse that can carry ones weight easily, with extra capacity to spare. Especially as current thinking seems to be trending towards 15% being the ideal.
If a rider is so close to the horse's weight carrying capacity that synthetic tack has to be used, what happens if a synthetic saddle cannot be found that fits both horse and rider? Or you want to go on a picnic and put saddle bags on? Or it's winter and the rider needs a thick coat? All of these things weigh extra, besides which, the rider would have to be very careful never to gain any weight.
It is far more practical to have some leaway and nicer for the horse not to have to carry the maximum.
		
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Absolutely agree, but if you find yourself and your tack at the horses limit and not over then it can still be ridden? I thought that was the purpose of a limit? You can go up to it and not over it. Nobody says you should aim to, but presumably you can. You can generally have a unit of alcohol and still drive, but you can not go over the limit. I was suggesting that going to the limit is acceptable, not ideal. Doesn't seem I've missed the point at all.


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## cobgoblin (25 May 2015)

Ccc



Mongoose11 said:



			Absolutely agree, but if you find yourself and your tack at the horses limit and not over then it can still be ridden? I thought that was the purpose of a limit? You can go up to it and not over it. Nobody says you should aim to, but presumably you can. You can generally have a unit of alcohol and still drive, but you can not go over the limit. I was suggesting that going to the limit is acceptable, not ideal. Doesn't seem I've missed the point at all.
		
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Actually I dont think it is acceptable to be at the horses limit, or even very close to it, as that is asking the horse to work very hard every time they carry you. If a horse is ridden once or twice by someone at its weight carrying capacity then that is one thing, but if that rider is the owner and therefore the regular rider then it's quite another matter.


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			Ccc

Actually I dont think it is acceptable to be at the horses limit, or even very close to it, as that is asking the horse to work very hard every time they carry you. If a horse is ridden once or twice by someone at its weight carrying capacity then that is one thing, but if that rider is the owner and therefore the regular rider then it's quite another matter.
		
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. 

Quite &#128527;


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## sarahw123 (25 May 2015)

Black Beastie said:



			Hi there

I'm 5ft1 and I was over 14 stone and was riding my 14.3hh Welsh d x appy on common tidings, hunting, jumping, endurance PC/RC you name it and he never had back issues or a problem carrying me. The pic of me jumping in my sig I'm about 13st there. As you can see he's not particularly heavy a cob type more hunter pony really.

He carried my 6ft4 OH on regular long rides and he was over 15 St due to his height and he never struggled. He was kept fit and active and saddle was correct fit and for the job required.

Don't beat yourself up, yes it's not great to be over weight, I'm now down to 10st ish and it's great but took me a while to get there and my horses never suffered for my weight. I even had a 15.2hh WBXTB and she also carried me perfectly fine with no back issues and she wasn't a chunky lady either.
		
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Just because physical issues weren't apparent at the time, that does not mean that damage isn't being caused and could well show up in future.  14 and 15 stone on a 14.3 Welsh d x appy doing all that hard work is excessive and silly


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## FfionWinnie (25 May 2015)

sarahw123 said:



			Just because physical issues weren't apparent at the time, that does not mean that damage isn't being caused and could well show up in future.  14 and 15 stone on a 14.3 Welsh d x appy doing all that hard work is excessive and silly
		
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Except if I remember correctly the poster still has the horse and it's now fairly old (twenties) and still in work and sound.


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			Except if I remember correctly the poster still has the horse and it's now fairly old (twenties) and still in work and sound.
		
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*tumbleweed*


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## cobgoblin (25 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			*tumbleweed*
		
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Or luck.


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			Or luck.
		
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Tumbleweed or luck? Eh?


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## cobgoblin (25 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Tumbleweed or luck? Eh?
		
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Yep.


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## Cinnamontoast (25 May 2015)

What the heck do all these big strapping blokes out hunting ride? They're not on 20hh monsters, heck, they're not even on 18 handers, what are they riding?!


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			What the heck do all these big strapping blokes out hunting ride? They're not on 20hh monsters, heck, they're not even on 18 handers, what are they riding?!
		
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Tut tut. They are men, different rules apply.

Women must keep themselves within the 15% or be shamed in to dieting.


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## ester (25 May 2015)

I don't think anyone can talk about being at the top of the a horses 'limit' when there is no fail proof formula to say what this limit is .

% of weight misses out rather a lot of factors, and arabs rather mess up measuring bone as well.


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

ester said:



			I don't think anyone can talk about being at the top of the a horses 'limit' when there is no fail proof formula to say what this limit is .

% of weight misses out rather a lot of factors, and arabs rather mess up measuring bone as well.
		
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True, Ester. There is no hard and fast rule so the 'generally' accepted one is 20%. What else should we go by? It appears from this thread that even vets and trainers will flatter their clients and put a horse's welfare at risk!


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## ester (25 May 2015)

A bit of logic I think and assessment of the combo in front of you/yourself/horse's way of going. 

There is just so many issues saying 20% too, most people wouldn't know either what their horse actually weighs, or alternatively what it should way. 

I wouldn't want to be much more on my lad than I am, and was less when I got him 10 years ago and if buying now would prob go for something a bit bigger but he is tickety boo.


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## Cinnamontoast (25 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Tut tut. They are men, different rules apply.

Women must keep themselves within the 15% or be shamed in to dieting.
		
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Seriously, how much do these blokes weigh and ok, the horses are hunting fit, but hunting is damned hard work for a horse, what the heck are they carrying, day in, day out in the season?


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## Kallibear (25 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			What the heck do all these big strapping blokes out hunting ride? They're not on 20hh monsters, heck, they're not even on 18 handers, what are they riding?!
		
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Those 'strapping big blokes out hunting' don't really exist. Most are likely less than 16st. I've yet to see any Rugby player types out. They're usually average height men of average build. So probably 14st maybe?  And they're on 16hh+ HW hunter types (ID's) or big 17hh+ sports horses/TB types  They are NOT riding 15hh horses, never mind 14hh ponies. I'm sure there are some big fat man out hunting poor little horses but just because they do it doesn't make it right! 

No-one has ever said the OP is too heavy to ride. Far from it. But most agree that she does need a suitable horse and that's unlikely to be a 14hh pony.


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			Seriously, how much do these blokes weigh and ok, the horses are hunting fit, but hunting is damned hard work for a horse, what the heck are they carrying, day in, day out in the season?
		
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The first horse I took on was an Ex Master's horse. I kept him on the private hunting yard that he had been on for 17 years and he had hunted two/three times a week for 15 seasons. There were 16 horses in total and they ranged from a 14.2 Connie, a 14h Welsh D,
15.1 cob to 16.2 TB, ID, IDx. All of those horses were hunted hard for many years and the lightest male of the family was 13 stone - they always teased Charles for being a runt. The horses were treated well and lasted well, many of them went to the hunt in their early twenties which I don't think is bad going.


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## ester (25 May 2015)

We had a joint meet with the new forest this year, a fair few foresters smaller than Frank, some with tall adult men on who went all day, and Frank goes with 13 st. So for an extra 3 stone why do you have to scale up so much for an extra stone?!

I agree OP needs a suitable horse, and that could be some 14 hh ponies it depends what she picked.


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			Those 'strapping big blokes out hunting' don't really exist. Most are likely less than 16st. I've yet to see any Rugby player types out. They're usually average height men of average build. So probably 14st maybe?  And they're on 16hh+ HW hunter types (ID's) or big 17hh+ sports horses/TB types  They are NOT riding 15hh horses, never mind 14hh ponies. I'm sure there are some big fat man out hunting poor little horses but just because they do it doesn't make it right! 

No-one has ever said the OP is too heavy to ride. Far from it. But most agree that she does need a suitable horse and that's unlikely to be a 14hh pony.
		
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This could be a massively inappropriate assumption but I genuinely think that the majority of smaller/lighter people have no idea what a 16 stone man or woman looks like. People tell me to ride my horse until they find out what I weigh! I am regularly pegged at 4 or even 5 stone less than I am. I turn up to my local meet often enough and am able to pick out 15/16/17 stone riders with ease!


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## sarahw123 (25 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Tumbleweed or luck? Eh?
		
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I'd also agree with the luck comment.  Obese horse and everyone goes mental. Obese person? No probs!


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## ester (25 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			Except if I remember correctly the poster still has the horse and it's now fairly old (twenties) and still in work and sound.
		
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Yes he is, I think he is on loan to a teenage girl now but sound and working in his 20s.


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

sarahw123 said:



			I'd also agree with the luck comment.  Obese horse and everyone goes mental. Obese person? No probs!
		
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Clearly not the case. Absolute majority of posters here are encouraging weight loss or finding a horse up to carrying that weight without detrimental affect.


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## sarahw123 (25 May 2015)

ester said:



			Yes he is, I think he is on loan to a teenage girl now but sound and working in his 20s.
		
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It's a dangerous thing to advise someone who is overweight that 'they'll be fine' on something that really shouldn't be carrying that weight. Regardless of their own experience


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## rara007 (25 May 2015)

I know plenty of strapping big blokes in our local (essex) hunts including a few masters! I guess depends on your local hunts.


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## ester (25 May 2015)

Blackbeastie never actually said she'd be fine - on either the 14hh haffy mentioned or something like her black chap, just relayed her experiences.


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## Mongoose11 (25 May 2015)

sarahw123 said:



			It's a dangerous thing to advise someone who is overweight that 'they'll be fine' on something that really shouldn't be carrying that weight. Regardless of their own experience
		
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Who has done this?


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## Roasted Chestnuts (25 May 2015)

J



sarahw123 said:



			Just because physical issues weren't apparent at the time, that does not mean that damage isn't being caused and could well show up in future.  14 and 15 stone on a 14.3 Welsh d x appy doing all that hard work is excessive and silly
		
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I still have the horse, I've had him 14yrs now, he is now 24 and still going strong so perhaps you should seriously wind your neck in.

He was on loan but is now back with me and is hacking and schooling sound in all gaits, barefoot might I add, and out pacing ponies less than half his age. He's had the best I could afford all his life.

I never advised anything but losing the weight like I have now done. I've lost over 4st. I related my experiences and there are a few on this forum who know me in RL and can testify to the care my horse has had and witnessed him over the years.


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## Cinnamontoast (25 May 2015)

rara007 said:



			I know plenty of strapping big blokes in our local (essex) hunts including a few masters! I guess depends on your local hunts.
		
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I wonder what the guys weigh and how big the horses are?


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## Goldenstar (26 May 2015)

Fatty and H will be carrying 16 stone out hunting .
They are just over 16 and 16.2 both RID .
H is 7 this time and only carried MrGS for a few days at the end of last season , he had a lighter rider until then .
He's still in work this sumner while I develop his back and strength , he will do a bit more this winter with MrGS by his eight year old season I will consider him ready to work as a hunter instead of us developing him for the job.
By that time he will be in his fourth season with us , that's why good weight carring carefully produced gents hunters are expensive .


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## Roasted Chestnuts (26 May 2015)

Just so as you know for the OP just good diet and regular exercise can and will help loads.

This is me nowadays (pink dress)







Me back then







Weight does come into how heavy you are but how your ride and how you carry yourself is more important. Nobody guessed me at over 14st when I told them that's what I was just as many wouldn't look at me now and say I'm hovering around ten as I'm not lightly made.


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## OwnedbyJoe (26 May 2015)

The usual discussion regarding personal experience and a whole heap of case studies, but no science or real numbers... 
Which is normal for the horse world as we have VERY FEW good long term studies about anything much at all!
However, to my knowledge the only study that really had any science behind it found that horses which were routinely asked to carry more than 20% of their body weight had a significantly higher rate of musculo skeletal injuries and lamenesses than those carrying riders under that %. Hence where the "20%" figure comes from.
Without weighing both horse and rider we can't know if that 20% limit is reached/approached. People routinely underestimate my weight by up to a stone, and over estimate my horses by 50 - 100 kilos. I put him over a weighbridge and at 15.2 and well built with plenty of bone he weighs 480 kilos in fit condition (Arab X). So I have a 96 kilo "limit" with all gear.
There aren't that many genuinely 6-700 kilo horses around... There are plenty of 15 stone+ riders.


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## Stormynight (26 May 2015)

Just to throw another thought into the process - have you tried riding a 15.2 ID / cob?

At 5'2, you may struggle getting your leg round something that size if they're wide - I'm 4" taller than you on a chunky 16.1, and he really does feel huge sometimes. You need to assess what you're comfortable on, and take it from there. Weight loss is difficult, but it's not impossible... and once you break habits, it does become easier to maintain.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

OwnedbyJoe said:



			The usual discussion regarding personal experience and a whole heap of case studies, but no science or real numbers... 
Which is normal for the horse world as we have VERY FEW good long term studies about anything much at all!
However, to my knowledge the only study that really had any science behind it found that horses which were routinely asked to carry more than 20% of their body weight had a significantly higher rate of musculo skeletal injuries and lamenesses than those carrying riders under that %. Hence where the "20%" figure comes from.
Without weighing both horse and rider we can't know if that 20% limit is reached/approached. People routinely underestimate my weight by up to a stone, and over estimate my horses by 50 - 100 kilos. I put him over a weighbridge and at 15.2 and well built with plenty of bone he weighs 480 kilos in fit condition (Arab X). So I have a 96 kilo "limit" with all gear.
There aren't that many genuinely 6-700 kilo horses around... There are plenty of 15 stone+ riders.
		
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I did post links to this study and a discussion of it as a way of providing info.  I don't think everyone read it though and there appeared to be a lot who were happy to volunteer their horses for additional weight over and above the 20%.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Black Beastie said:



			J

I still have the horse, I've had him 14yrs now, he is now 24 and still going strong so perhaps you should seriously wind your neck in.

He was on loan but is now back with me and is hacking and schooling sound in all gaits, barefoot might I add, and out pacing ponies less than half his age. He's had the best I could afford all his life.

I never advised anything but losing the weight like I have now done. I've lost over 4st. I related my experiences and there are a few on this forum who know me in RL and can testify to the care my horse has had and witnessed him over the years.
		
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Well you certainly look great now, but I do really think that 15 stone on a 14.3 is very heavy, maybe he has exceptional conformation and the famed short back and wide loins so perhaps he has coped well.    I bet he prefers carrying you now though !!  Also If you weighed over 14 stone as you say in one of your following posts then your 14.3 will have been carrying  a minimum of 15 stone 7 and probably more like sixteen stone -  its your horse and obviously up to you but many people wouldn't consider that to be ok.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

OwnedbyJoe said:



			The usual discussion regarding personal experience and a whole heap of case studies, but no science or real numbers... 
Which is normal for the horse world as we have VERY FEW good long term studies about anything much at all!
However, to my knowledge the only study that really had any science behind it found that horses which were routinely asked to carry more than 20% of their body weight had a significantly higher rate of musculo skeletal injuries and lamenesses than those carrying riders under that %. Hence where the "20%" figure comes from.
Without weighing both horse and rider we can't know if that 20% limit is reached/approached. People routinely underestimate my weight by up to a stone, and over estimate my horses by 50 - 100 kilos. I put him over a weighbridge and at 15.2 and well built with plenty of bone he weighs 480 kilos in fit condition (Arab X). So I have a 96 kilo "limit" with all gear.
There aren't that many genuinely 6-700 kilo horses around... There are plenty of 15 stone+ riders.
		
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There are a lot of holes in that study though so I am scientifically unconvinced by its validity for all horses. A horse's weight is just not the only important measure.


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Deleted. Brick wall.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			There are a lot of holes in that study though so I am scientifically unconvinced by its validity for all horses. A horse's weight is just not the only important measure.
		
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Did you read the link I posted ?  It does go on to explain that there are other significant conformation factors and the 20% is used as a  guide.

Here is another link and this also discussed bone density - very interesting bigger is not necessarily better, but more support for the 20% rule. 

http://enlightenedequine.com/2014/09/13/how-much-is-too-much/

Ester I would be interested in what you are basing your views on ?  in the absence of a study without holes ??  I think we need some guide ?  is there something better you could suggest.


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## cattysmith (26 May 2015)

You'd be fine with a full up highland! Anyone who disputes that doesn't know highlands as a breed. They are still used up here to carry stag and work for the forestry on the queens estate. They are truly a fantastic breed and at 14 stone you'll be fine with one.


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## Goldenstar (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			There are a lot of holes in that study though so I am scientifically unconvinced by its validity for all horses. A horse's weight is just not the only important measure.
		
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No it's not ,correct conformation and correct training and work is very important as is what the horse is going to be going to do.
Fat unfit heavy horse and fat unfit rider is not going to be a good combination for the horse .
Correct saddle for the rider and horse throughout the horses life is also a huge thing.


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## Gloi (26 May 2015)

In another thread most people who commented thought it wasn't good practice for a horse which has not long been backed to be doing a two hour ride, saying that it hadn't had enough time to build up its muscles to do the work.
In most of the research which has been carried out on horses carrying different percentages of their body weight the horses carry the different weights without any time given to allow the horse to build up extra strength to do the work.
Surely, like anything else a horse does, what can be done with a horse new to a job and one that has built up the muscles to do it are two different things.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Gloi said:



			In another thread most people who commented thought it wasn't good practice for a horse which has not long been backed to be doing a two hour ride, saying that it hadn't had enough time to build up its muscles to do the work.
In most of the research which has been carried out on horses carrying different percentages of their body weight the horses carry the different weights without any time given to allow the horse to build up extra strength to do the work.
Surely, like anything else a horse does, what can be done with a horse new to a job and one that has built up the muscles to do it are two different things.
		
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The study that has been mentioned ( citing 20% as a guide) was completed on riding horses that were fit


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## Gloi (26 May 2015)

Fit and used to carrying the weight are completely different things.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Gloi said:



			Fit and used to carrying the weight are completely different things.
		
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So are you saying that what should have happened is that the horses carrying 25 % and up should have done this over several weeks to see if they acclimatised to the weight - I'm not sure that would have been ethical - after all the majority did physically show the physical  impact of carrying the extra weight.

I am surprised that so many on here choose to dismiss anything scientific re weight carrying ability and instead rely on anecdotal stuff such as the horse was okay - obviously its up to each individual owner, but in my view if there is any info out there which suggests you might be too heavy, then for your horses sake, you should consider if you might be too heavy - as opposed to carrying on regardless.

As for highlands carrying stags  - I'm sure they do, but they wouldn't be galloping, jumping, competing, hacking at mixed paces, or going to riding club carrying one - they would probably be just walking - which is quite different to what we might expect a riding horse to do


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			I am surprised that so many on here choose to dismiss anything scientific re weight carrying ability and instead rely on anecdotal stuff such as the horse was okay - obviously its up to each individual owner, but in my view if there is any info out there which suggests you might be too heavy, then for your horses sake, you should consider if you might be too heavy - as opposed to carrying on regardless
		
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Who are the 'so many' on 'here' who entirely dismiss the study and 'carry on regardless'? Are you reading the same thread as me?

Not one person has done any such thing.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Yes

There have been some posts on this thread  where people have encouraged the OP to ride a 14 hander saying that certain types will be fine - also even though the combination of rider and tack would push this to at least 15 and a half stone - equally there are also some who have posted to say that they weigh ??  and their pony is fine with the weight (when this weight is clearly in excess of the 20%)  

 Thankfully there have also been some who think the 20% rule is a useful benchmark.

What would be really helpful is if the 2008 Study could be completed on different types of native pony, so we could get some useful evidence - or not ??

I do think in the absence of this evidence then all we have is the 2008 study, everything else is anecdotal and  is  personal opinion


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Yes

There have been some posts on this thread  where people have encouraged the OP to ride a 14 hander saying that certain types will be fine - also even though the combination of rider and tack would push this to at least 15 and a half stone - equally there are also some who have posted to say that they weigh  and their pony is fine with the weight (when this weight is clearly in excess of the 20%)  

 Thankfully there have also been some who think the 20% rule is a useful benchmark.

What would be really helpful is if the 2008 Study could be completed on different types of native pony, so we could get some useful evidence - or not ??

I do think in the absence of this evidence then all we have is the 2008 study, everything else is anecdotal and  is  personal opinion
		
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There are some 14 - 14.2h breeds that would be within the 20%. How would you know if the posters are over the 20%, as I can't recall many who quoted their horse's weight, their weight and tack weight? An appropriate highland might weigh 550kg which puts the OP within the 20% with tack. You like the study, what more could we ask for here? 

'So many' is inflammatory, as that is not the balance of this thread. As are phrases like 'complete disregard'. You do many posters a disservice here. Overwhelmingly, there has been more posters against the idea of a 14h pony/over 20% than for!


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## Wagtail (26 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			There are some 14hh breeds that fit and muscled would be within the 20%. How would you know if the posters are over the 20%, as I can't recall many who quoted their horse's weight, their weight and tack weight? An appropriate highland might weigh 550kg which puts the OP within the 20% with tack. You like the study, what more could we ask for here? 

'So many' is inflammatory, as that is not the balance of this thread. As are phrases like 'complete disregard'. You do many posters a disservice here. Overwhelmingly, there has been more posters against the idea of a 14h pony/over 20% than for!
		
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If fit, I very much doubt any 14hh pony would weigh 500kg which is what it would need to be for 14 stone plus clothes and tack to be within 20% of its weight.


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			If fit, I very much doubt any 14hh pony would weigh 500kg which is what it would need to be for 14 stone plus clothes and tack to be within 20% of its weight.
		
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Try a Highland (the breed suggested very early on as potentially being suitable for the OP).


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## Roasted Chestnuts (26 May 2015)

Personally for me that study is worthless. Fit and in work carrying who? Men? Women? Children? What weights were they carrying before? What exact jobs were they doing? How was their aftercare? Did they have regular saddle checks? Regular body checks? How were they fittened??

All the above is not mentioned. I am not naturally a slim person, I carry a lot of muscle, always have, especially on my lower half and my shoulders. I can only give my experiences with my life and horse and also anyone else's which for me is more valid that any study full of holes and variants.


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## Wagtail (26 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Try a Highland (the breed suggested very early on as potentially being suitable for the OP).
		
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JFTD has highlands. I'm sure hers are nowhere near 500kg as she keeps them fit and trim. Could be wrong.


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			JFTD has highlands. I'm sure hers are nowhere near 500kg as she keeps them fit and trim. Could be wrong.
		
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JFTD is indeed our resident highland expert but I'd be pretty amazed if hers weren't too far off. I'll ask her. 

Perhaps it would be better to read some of the breed standard info rather than draw upon one poster's own experience &#128512; DunGarron (fairly famous breeders) suggest that a modern adult of theirs can weigh 650kg.


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## Kallibear (26 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			If fit, I very much doubt any 14hh pony would weigh 500kg which is what it would need to be for 14 stone plus clothes and tack to be within 20% of its weight.
		
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A fit and slim 14hh Highland will easily weight 500kg. They are a lot of pony! A 14.2 Highland will be at least 550kg. Your average fat 14hh Highland is 600kg (tho therefore less able to carry weight).  They're the only Native I'd say were up to a 14st rider at 14hh. A Fell or similar is far less horse. (P.s I'm surrounded by Highlands, can't move for the things.  Many of which I know the weightbridge weight for)


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			There are some 14 - 14.2h breeds that would be within the 20%. How would you know if the posters are over the 20%, as I can't recall many who quoted their horse's weight, their weight and tack weight? An appropriate highland might weigh 550kg which puts the OP within the 20% with tack. You like the study, what more could we ask for here? 

'So many' is inflammatory, as that is not the balance of this thread. As are phrases like 'complete disregard'. You do many posters a disservice here. Overwhelmingly, there has been more posters against the idea of a 14h pony/over 20% than for!
		
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I seriously doubt there are any 14 handers who would weight 500KG ( naturally fit weight and not overweight) and can happily carry 16 stone.  



 In terms of weight according to this website on worming the following weight's are a guide

http://www.wormersdirect.co.uk/infor...assessment.asp

 Under 12hh Shetland, Dartmoor, Welsh A 200kg  320kg 
 12hh to 13hh Exmoor, New Forest, Welsh B 230kg  330kg 
 13hh to 14hh Connemara, Dales, New Forest, Welsh C 290kg  390kg 
 14hh to 15hh Arab, Dales, Welsh D 360kg  550kg 

As you see it is only as you move towards 15 hands that weights increase to sufficiently to ensure that a 14 stone rider (adding tack and clothing etc) is under the 20%.

I think I would rather put my faith in science rather than personal ancedotes  / opinion.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			JFTD is indeed our resident highland expert but I'd be pretty amazed if hers weren't too far off. I'll ask her. 

Perhaps it would be better to read some of the breed standard info rather than draw upon one poster's own experience &#55357;&#56832; DunGarron (fairly famous breeders) suggest that a modern adult of theirs can weigh 650kg.
		
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Would that be a 14 hander ?


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			JFTD has highlands. I'm sure hers are nowhere near 500kg as she keeps them fit and trim. Could be wrong.
		
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I suspect they're a lot closer to that than you'd imagine.  Particularly F, now he's all muscled up and dressagey.  Though I'm not sure the extra muscle he carries means he should also be carrying a larger rider too, so the premise may be flawed.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Did you read the link I posted ?  It does go on to explain that there are other significant conformation factors and the 20% is used as a  guide.

Here is another link and this also discussed bone density - very interesting bigger is not necessarily better, but more support for the 20% rule. 

http://enlightenedequine.com/2014/09/13/how-much-is-too-much/

Ester I would be interested in what you are basing your views on ?  in the absence of a study without holes ??  I think we need some guide ?  is there something better you could suggest.
		
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I have read all of the relevant studies as some point. I am basing my views on being a working scientist with a PhD that knows how many studies, either slightly different or replicates of the same with different researchers, total replicates etc it takes to make a rule- and on this topic it's a long way away.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			A fit and slim 14hh Highland will easily weight 500kg. They are a lot of pony! A 14.2 Highland will be at least 550kg. Your average fat 14hh Highland is 600kg (tho therefore less able to carry weight).  They're the only Native I'd say were up to a 14st rider at 14hh. A Fell or similar is far less horse. (P.s I'm surrounded by Highlands, can't move for the things.  Many of which I know the weightbridge weight for)
		
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It needs to be up to carrying 15 7 to 16 stone though, if the rider is 14 stone


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			I have read all of the relevant studies as some point. I am basing my views on being a working scientist with a PhD that knows how many studies, either slightly different or replicates of the same with different researchers, total replicates etc it takes to make a rule- and on this topic it's a long way away.
		
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On what do you guide your views ?


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Would that be a 14 hander ?
		
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To be fair, the recommendations moved away from 14h very early in the thread but not necessarily away from ponies.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Would that be a 14 hander ?
		
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Well it isn't more than 14.2.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			On what do you guide your views ?
		
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errr  ' I am basing my views on being a working scientist with a PhD'

years of scientific training? Just because it is written up doesn't make something good, or correct. I imagine JFTD might agree with that . It just goes in the vat of 'things to consider might be right' .


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			There are some 14 - 14.2h breeds that would be within the 20%. How would you know if the posters are over the 20%, as I can't recall many who quoted their horse's weight, their weight and tack weight? An appropriate highland might weigh 550kg which puts the OP within the 20% with tack. You like the study, what more could we ask for here? 

'So many' is inflammatory, as that is not the balance of this thread. As are phrases like 'complete disregard'. You do many posters a disservice here. Overwhelmingly, there has been more posters against the idea of a 14h pony/over 20% than for!
		
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Actually, I think it was you that reintroduced the idea of the possibility of a 14 hander being suitable for the OP  who weighs 14 stone so would ride at considerably more.


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			On what do you guide your views ?
		
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Surely common sense and rational thought is sufficient for most people?

Even those of you who don't have PhDs and years of scientific experience


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			errr  ' I am basing my views on being a working scientist with a PhD'

years of scientific training? Just because it is written up doesn't make something good, or correct. I imagine JFTD might agree with that .
		
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Are you a specialist in equine science ? and is this your field   if so it would be great to get some info and guidelines from you based on actual science and you inconsiderable experience in this field.


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Actually, I think it was you that reintroduced the idea of the possibility of a 14 hander being suitable for the OP  who weighs 14 stone so would ride at considerably more.
		
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I'm certain one could be found, so I stand by that comment. I then went on to say, very early on, that she may need rethink height.

I'm still interested in the identification of 'so many' posters. Was it just me then?


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## ester (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Are you a specialist in equine science ? and is this your field   if so it would be great to get some info and guidelines from you based on actual science and you inconsiderable experience in this field.
		
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What? You don't have to be a specialist in any sort of field in order to read, interpret and analyse the merits of a variety of scientific papers, anyone scientifically trained can do so and science writers do it day in day out.


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Are you a specialist in equine science ? and is this your field   if so it would be great to get some info and guidelines from you based on actual science and you inconsiderable experience in this field.
		
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This made me laugh out loud. Let's not administer first aid while we're at it. We aren't qualified! 

I presume you also need a PHD in parenthood these days?


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## ester (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			Surely common sense and rational thought is sufficient for most people?

Even those of you who don't have PhDs and years of scientific experience 

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Well as those with are often accused of not having either  .


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			Surely common sense and rational thought is sufficient for most people?

Even those of you who don't have PhDs and years of scientific experience 

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Common sense can be wrong though  and rational thought can be as simple as someone's albeit strong !! opinion 

It would be great if someone has some actual experience in this field and can produce some sort of evidence  as opposed to common sense and opinion.

If someone does have a PHD in equine science  as opposed to a PDH in something other it would be great to hear from them and to have  a proper informed opinion other than a viewpoint.

  I would add (as I have already mentioned)  that those who criticise the study that gave the 20% guideline ( and this is also based on cavalry guidelines from the 1920's also)  at the moment  we have nothing other only opinions base on common sense.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			Well as those with are often accused of not having either  .
		
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Indeed


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Common sense can be wrong though  and rational thought can be as simple as someone's albeit strong !! opinion 

It would be great if someone has some actual experience in this field and can produce some sort of evidence  as opposed to common sense and opinion.

If someone does have a PHD in equine science  as opposed to a PDH in something other it would be great to hear from them and to have  a proper informed opinion other than a viewpoint
		
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I think the suggestion is that with a certain quality of intellect, you can be trusted to be rational and intelligent enough to make informed decisions.


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## Wagtail (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			I suspect they're a lot closer to that than you'd imagine.  Particularly F, now he's all muscled up and dressagey.  Though I'm not sure the extra muscle he carries means he should also be carrying a larger rider too, so the premise may be flawed.
		
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Thanks for clarifying that. Do you know what he weighs?


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## ester (26 May 2015)

I think if someone had experience in this field and could produce some excellent evidence it would be published anyway? So I think you may be requesting the impossible/the forum would be pretty small if view points weren't included .


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Common sense can be wrong though  and rational thought can be as simple as someone's albeit strong !! opinion 

It would be great if someone has some actual experience in this field and can produce some sort of evidence  as opposed to common sense and opinion.

If someone does have a PHD in equine science  as opposed to a PDH in something other it would be great to hear from them and to have  a proper informed opinion other than a viewpoint
		
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I did my PhD at the Royal Veterinary College if that's good enough for you?

Not that it's any of your business, but as a "real" scientist, I don't consider anyone with a degree in ES to know their backside from their elbow, scientifically speaking anyway


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## Kallibear (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			It needs to be up to carrying 15 7 to 16 stone though, if the rider is 14 stone
		
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I'd happily let a 14st rider (so yes, 16st)  ride a 14.2 Highland. And probably a 14hh one too. I'm very picky about over loading horses but know Highlands quite well and how substantial they are. If you've not been around them much (few people down south have been) then you'll not realise how heavy they actually are. Many have far more bone than a cob (who, once clipped out often have little chicken legs) and their backs are very wide, flat and strong through the loins.

JFDT: How tall are your two? If they're over 14hh I'd be very surprised if they weight less than 500kg, even fit and slim. My friends 14.1hh is in Fat Fighting Club and regularly weighted at the vets. Her ideal slim weight is 530kg (vet prescribed). Her currently weight (tubby by normal standards, verging on 'skinny' by showing standards, grrr) is 580kg. She weights only a smidge less than my 17hh ISH!!

P.S I'm trained as a vet, if that makes my opinion more valid?


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			I'm certain one could be found, so I stand by that comment. I then went on to say, very early on, that she may need rethink height.

I'm still interested in the identification of 'so many' posters. Was it just me then?
		
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Go back and have a read !!  think  you are also forgetting what you are posting some of the time !!


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Thanks for clarifying that. Do you know what he weighs?
		
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Did you check out any of the breed standard info, Wagtail?


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			I did my PhD at the Royal Veterinary College if that's good enough for you?

Not that it's any of your business, but as a "real" scientist, I don't consider anyone with a degree in ES to know their backside from their elbow, scientifically speaking anyway 

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Thank you !!  so if you could share with us your views on weight carrying based on your considerable knowledge that would be great


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## Wagtail (26 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Did you check out any of the breed standard info, Wagtail?
		
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Yes. However breed standards often apply to show animals which we know are often far in excess weight-wise. I am interested in real working animals in tip top condition, hence why I asked about JFTD's highlands.


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Thank you !!  so if you could share with us your views on weight carrying based on your considerable knowledge that would be great
		
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Sorry, but I don't actually want to.  Largely because I don't feel my opinion is actually any more valuable than Ester's or Mongoose's or even Wagtail's (  ).  Because without good evidence, it doesn't matter who I am, or what I do, or have done - it's just another opinion.

Besides, anyone can find my opinions on this matter by looking in the archives at the plethora of similar threads to which I have contributed in the past.


eta - Wagtail, I'm not avoiding the question - I can't answer it as I've never had cause to put them on a weigh bridge.  So whilst I strongly suspect they are both in the ball park of 500kg (at 14/14,1) I cannot give you a truly factual answer.


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Go back and have a read !!  think  you are also forgetting what you are posting some of the time !!
		
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Had a read through. I'm clear about what I've posted. Thanks though.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			I think if someone had experience in this field and could produce some excellent evidence it would be published anyway? So I think you may be requesting the impossible/the forum would be pretty small if view points weren't included .
		
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Agree and this would be a help - I suppose my point is that we only have the 2008 study, and though some would think it is flawed, yourself included, it is all we have.  It would be very helpful if the study could be replicated on our natives.   Then we would have some evidence rather than peoples opinions.


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## cobgoblin (26 May 2015)

I think a 14.2hh highland could well fit the bill, but even if a 14hh highland weighs 500kg I would say that is too close for comfort with a 14st rider plus tack.
There is a world of difference between a 14 hander and  a 14.2. Now that I'm used to my 14hh cob, and despite the fact that he is built like a brick outhouse, a 14.2 cob looks huge to me.
We don't see many highlands down here in the far reaches of Southern England, it's a shame really, I've always thought them to be an interesting breed.


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## Kallibear (26 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Yes. However breed standards often apply to show animals which we know are often far in excess weight-wise. I am interested in real working animals in tip top condition, hence why I asked about JFTD's highlands.
		
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Wagtail: I have more Highlands in a 2mile radius than JFTD will have in her county (the joys of living in Scotland.  Shame I'm not a big Highland fan ) I can promise you that a slim fit 14hh Highland will weight 500kg. My own resident Highland was a 14hh youngster, who hadn't filled out yet at 4yrs old. He weight 490kg at a lean looking 2.5 condition score.  A smaller 13.2hh will be no less than 400kg, more likely 450kg. You do get more 'Connie' looking ones that will weight a bit less, esp down south, but they're not desirable up here.


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Yes. However breed standards often apply to show animals which we know are often far in excess weight-wise. I am interested in real working animals in tip top condition, hence why I asked about JFTD's highlands.
		
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Perhaps get on to DryRot then, he's our resident breeder. There are a hundred different articles relating to the general breed weight at various different heights. It would be a shame for you to dismiss the facts we sweeping statements like 'breed standards often apply' and 'we all know'. On the one hand we are being asked to look at factual info and then in another breath dismissing it!


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			You do get more 'Connie' looking ones that will weight a bit less, esp down south, but they're not desirable up here.
		
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One of mine is a connie-style lightweight.  He tapes only slightly less than my more traditional one, and I'd be surprised if he's way off 500kg even as a skinny pocket rocket!


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

mmmm Mongoose - so says that there are 14 handers who could  support the OP at 14 stone and then when others suggest that a 14 hander might not be big enough  , then asks why we are back onto 14 handers as the thread moved away from this ???


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

I'm talking about the balance of the thread. You claim it weighs heavily (pun intended) on the side that says '**** it' ride anything!


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## Wagtail (26 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			Wagtail: I have more Highlands in a 2mile radius than JFTD will have in her county (the joys of living in Scotland.  Shame I'm not a big Highland fan ) I can promise you that a slim fit 14hh Highland will weight 500kg. My own resident Highland was a 14hh youngster, who hadn't filled out yet at 4yrs old. He weight 490kg at a lean looking 2.5 condition score.  A smaller 13.2hh will be no less than 400kg, more likely 450kg. You do get more 'Connie' looking ones that will weight a bit less, esp down south, but they're not desirable up here.
		
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Thank you. I had a very tubby 14.2 cob here that weighed 530kg at his fattest. We got him down to 450kg. But I have no experience of highlands. They do not LOOK to be heavier than that 14.2 cob, but appearances can be deceiving.



Mongoose11 said:



			Perhaps get on to DryRot then, he's our resident breeder.
		
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I didn't know Dry Rot bred highlands, but did know JFTD owns a couple, hence why I commented. I didn't know Dry Rot was a 'he' either.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			I did my PhD at the Royal Veterinary College if that's good enough for you?

Not that it's any of your business, but as a "real" scientist, I don't consider anyone with a degree in ES to know their backside from their elbow, scientifically speaking anyway 

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Appreciate that you may not have anything to add from a scientific / actual evidence point of view, I did ask you politely and its your perogative to refuse of course,  But I do wonder why you then felt that you needed to let us know that you have a PHD if your additional knowledge in this field  cannot add to the debate which it clearly cant.

In addition, thought your insult to people who have Equine Science qualifications was a bit much really.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			There is a world of difference between a 14 hander and  a 14.2.
		
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See that is one thing I am not really sure about, especially given different back confos- high withers/low wither etc.

Pointing out that someone has a big scientific background just indicates to others with similar backgrounds that they are used to not taking scientific papers just at what they say but taking a large cohort of them on a range of topics and then formulating a cohesive argument.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

I also think you can start to think about 'science' a bit differently, and how much of it generates more questions than it answers.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			I'm talking about the balance of the thread. You claim it weighs heavily (pun intended) on the side that says '**** it' ride anything!
		
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I said nothing of the sort !!


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## Kallibear (26 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Thank you. I had a very tubby 14.2 cob here that weighed 530kg at his fattest. We got him down to 450kg. But I have no experience of highlands. They do not LOOK to be heavier than that 14.2 cob, but appearances can be deceiving.
		
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They are indeed deceiving and uselesw you've seen a big Highland up close, they look like less hairy cobs.  However they are generally much deeper through the girth and loins than a cob. In fact a lot of cobs aren't great weight carriers. 
My friend has a Highland and a Comtios mare (french draught breed) From a distance they are almost identical in build.  It's not until you get close that you realise the Comtios is 16.2 and the Highland only 14.1. In fact the closest thing would be a Percheron scaled down to 14hh. 

Back on topic slightly: the OP asked about a 14hh pony as a weight carrier. The average 14hh pony, inc cobs,  wouldn't really be up to that. Except maybe a Highland.  But even then I'd recommend a 14.2 version.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			See that is one thing I am not really sure about, especially given different back confos- high withers/low wither etc.

Pointing out that someone has a big scientific background just indicates to others with similar backgrounds that they are used to not taking scientific papers just at what they say but taking a large cohort of them on a range of topics and then formulating a cohesive argument.
		
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I don't think you need a scientific background to understand that data can be interpreted etc and does not need to be taken at face value.  Also while you might consider the 2008 study to be flawed, I'm sure it has more to support it that personal opinion and common sense which are not based on any scientific validity.


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## touchstone (26 May 2015)

Going off on a complete  tangent (sorry!)  but I recently came across this article:- http://thehorsesback.com/equine-arthritis/

which studies the incidence of elbow arthritis in the horse; interestingly it is found only in horses which have been ridden/driven, which to me suggests the horse's muscoskeletal system could well be under stress in ways we don't even know about yet.  I think if that is the case, then for our horses sake, we need to consider carefully what we ask them to do, just because they are willing doesn't mean that they aren't being damaged, and keeping the riders weight to a minimum can only be beneficial.   

As an aside I have a 14hh fell which is very similar in build to JFTD's lightweight highland, she weightapes at between 410 -430 kg as a comparison.


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

SG I'm not sure you were all that polite to Ester though who is equally well qualified to comment scientifically - which was my point in the first place, had you cared not to circumvent that minor detail.  And incidentally, I didn't bring up the question of qualification, I was merely using mine to debunk your claim that someone "in the field" could offer some kind of silver bullet argument which would put the debate to rest, or at least, inform it significantly. No opinion can do that. And no evidence can until it had been published and repeated either...


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## Kallibear (26 May 2015)

touchstone said:



			As an aside I have a 14hh fell which is very similar in build to JFTD's lightweight highland, she weightapes at between 410 -430 kg as a comparison.
		
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That was my point about Highland V Fell earlier. My friends 14hh Fell looks quite like a Highland from the side (with more fluff) but weights a good 100kg-150kg less than a similar condition and height Highland. A Highland is by far the most substantial of the Natives (and therefore a weight carrier) so if the OP does still want a 14hh pony (although by now she's most likely put off horses for life! ) then a Highland would be one to look at, whereas I don't think the much-less-solid Fells and similar would be up to a 14st rider plus tack. Which is all the poor OP wanted to know in the first place!


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## cattysmith (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			I did my PhD at the Royal Veterinary College if that's good enough for you?

Not that it's any of your business, but as a "real" scientist, I don't consider anyone with a degree in ES to know their backside from their elbow, scientifically speaking anyway 

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JFTD I must say, as someone who has mainly lurked for many year and followed many of your threads with your very nice highlands, I'm disappointed and pretty bloody offended by that sweeping and down right bitchy statement you've implied about those of us who have worked hard to gain Equine Science degrees.


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

I'm sorry you find it offensive, but it is a fairly commonly held opinion in many fields of science.


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## Wagtail (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			One of mine is a connie-style lightweight.  He tapes only slightly less than my more traditional one, and I'd be surprised if he's way off 500kg even as a skinny pocket rocket!






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So what does he TAPE at? I know taping is not always accurate, but it does give us an idea.


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## cobgoblin (26 May 2015)

Y



ester said:



			See that is one thing I am not really sure about, especially given different back confos- high withers/low wither etc.

.
		
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I think one has to be sensible about the comparison and compare like to like. Most cobs have very little wither. I will remember to be more pedantic in future.


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## Polar Bear9 (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			I'm sorry you find it offensive, but it is a fairly commonly held opinion in many fields of science.
		
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Just popping in to say I agree with this. 

The weight thing, the OP has said they will be looking for bigger and agreed that getting a bigger horse is better


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## Walrus (26 May 2015)

I've recently become more aware of Highlands (I'm a fell person) and it is incredible how solid they are - i can see a well muscled, big built highland tipping the scales at well over 550kg. For reference my fell is 13.1 / 13.2, in regular work, competes BD and weight-wise is the best he's ever looked (not show-ring condition, but actual healthy weight condition) and he was 460kg on the weighbridge. He's ranged between 440 and 460kg for the past 3 years and tends to look just a little scrawny when he's down the bottom end of the range.


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## numptynoelle (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			I'm sorry you find it offensive, but it is a fairly commonly held opinion in many fields of science.
		
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Sorry for the hijack - just wanted to say this is definitely true in my experience too - our lab would always pick someone with a 'regular' science degree over an equine science graduate. Different fields may preferentially go for an equine science graduate, but not in my experience in pharma or academia.

ETS: I'm sorry if I offend anyone - it's no reflection on anyone with an ES degree, it just seems to be the way of it.


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Wagtail, DryRot bred JFTD's I believe. I'd certainly be knocking on his door if I wanted a Highland! His stallion is outrageously gorgeous.


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## cobgoblin (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			I'm sorry you find it offensive, but it is a fairly commonly held opinion in many fields of science.
		
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It was a disgustingly offensive comment.
As is stating ones qualifications on a public forum in the hope it gives one more kudos.


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			It was a disgustingly offensive comment.
As is stating ones qualifications on a public forum in the hope it gives one more kudos.
		
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I took it more as proof of reasonable intellect. I'm willing to offer kudos to anyone determined/pedantic enough to get themselves a PHD!

Disgustingly offensive? Jeeps - sheltered life?


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## Tiddlypom (26 May 2015)

Remember this recent thread? No Highlands on there, but correct weigh bridge weights of a few cobs. 

https://forums-secure.horseandhound.co.uk/showthread.php?699139-Guess-the-weight-of-the-cobs


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## numptynoelle (26 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			I took it more as proof of reasonable intellect. I'm willing to offer Kudos to anyone determined/pedantic enough to get themselves a PHD!
		
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Having a PhD doesn't necessary imply intellect - but does indicate a certain level of acquired scientific knowledge and reasoning :wink3:


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## ester (26 May 2015)

Thanks for getting my point NN! Not for Kudos at all just as pointing out the reasons why you might appear more critical of the 'science' than others.

The same scientific studies get brought up on this topic several times over. I just think it is important they are not taking ad verbatim/at face value etc. As is the case for a lot of other equine based issues/studies discussed on here. 

And although common sense is never a substitute for great controlled results sometimes it has a place, otherwise my horse would still have shoes on and be wonky .

I've always felt a bit sorry for ES graduates knowing what they usually cover but that they are often looked down on in industry but it is the case.


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## fatpiggy (26 May 2015)

OP, please for a moment stop considering what the horse or pony can carry and think about what you ARE carrying.  At 14 stone and only 5'2" you are very seriously overweight.  You may be young enough to get away with it at the moment but your joints will be ageing faster than a person in the range of a healthy weight and you get tired faster, plain and simple.  I'm 5'4" and currently ashamed to say I weigh not too far off 11 stone.  8 years ago I was a size 8 and under 9 stone.  I actually get more exercise than I was then and I eat a low fat, low sugar diet, as I always have.  I don't drink soft drinks other than fresh juices and haven't had a takeaway in more than 20 years.  My weight gain is, unfortunately, entirely due to the menopause.  Despite my very best efforts I cannot lose any weight and frankly it is only because I exercise so much that I'm not still gaining it.  This could very well be you in the future so please step up now and do your very best to shift some weight. Your body will thank you for it, and your horse most definitely will.


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## milliepops (26 May 2015)

touchstone said:



			Going off on a complete  tangent (sorry!)  but I recently came across this article:- http://thehorsesback.com/equine-arthritis/

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thanks for sharing, that was an interesting read.


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			It was a disgustingly offensive comment.
As is stating ones qualifications on a public forum in the hope it gives one more kudos.
		
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I don't need any more kudos, thanks.  I'm more than happy with what I have.

I'm genuinely sorry that the poster upthread took it personally, but, as other posters have confirmed, it is a common enough opinion.  I have had enough experience with ES graduates and students to inform my opinion, and sadly the local Agricultural College which churns them out does little to prepare them for a scientific career (in my opinion).

eta - the other colleges which teach ES may do a better job.  I couldn't comment on those.  I can say, with a degree of certainty, that a conventional science degree would be considered more desirable in all the workplaces I've been in previously.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

It's interesting from the weights thread that at 730kg AA's Martha would carry 23 stone, at 15.2. (weight taped 650 I think).


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## cobgoblin (26 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			I took it more as proof of reasonable intellect. I'm willing to offer kudos to anyone determined/pedantic enough to get themselves a PHD!

Disgustingly offensive? Jeeps - sheltered life?
		
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Yes I think it was disgustingly offensive to those that have done Equine Science, it was a put- down of their qualification.
I've known some pretty dim people that have a PhD and some very bright and observant people that have no qualifications at all.
Equine science seems to be a relatively new degree, I certainly don't remember it being around many moons ago when I was a student, degrees moving into 'new' areas take some time to carve their way. The young people that are studying or have studied this now, may well become the leaders in their field that finally answer the questions we all keep asking on here ( and about time too!). They don't need to be told that they are inferior to more traditional and established scientific areas.
Btw, I haven't led a sheltered life at all.


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## sportsmansB (26 May 2015)

At the end of the day, following a decent diet and exercise plan should result in a weight loss of 2-3lb / week 
If the OP really wants to ride a horse and be the most comfortable passenger for that horse and not risk damaging its back, then two months of sensible eating and exercise should get her on the right path 
OP don't risk a horses' health for convenience (skipping a pony stage/getting on and off on a hack)- use the promise of a horse to get on the right track and then reward yourself for a job well done. 
TBH if someone v overweight came to see a horse of mine & I thought the horse would be uncomfortable carrying them regularly I wouldn't let them try it. Though I have also asked people with awful hands to get off a sensitive one too...


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## sarahandwilby (26 May 2015)

I think the 20% rule is a bit rubbish tbh. According to that my TB (weighbridged at 494kg when fit, muscled and a spot on BCS) could carry 98kg, so 15.5st. His legs would buckle!

15% would be much more reasonable in my opinion - or less to be 'kinder'. 20% may be ok for some horses, but if people then begin to apply it across the board it can become a little dangerous (e.g. horses with soundness issues, different conformations, obesity themselves etc.) 

However, it sounds like the OP is looking for something much more sensibly suited for herself


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## ester (26 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			Yes I think it was disgustingly offensive to those that have done Equine Science, it was a put- down of their qualification.
I've known some pretty dim people that have a PhD and some very bright and observant people that have no qualifications at all.
Equine science seems to be a relatively new degree, I certainly don't remember it being around many moons ago when I was a student, degrees moving into 'new' areas take some time to carve their way. The young people that are studying or have studied this now, may well become the leaders in their field that finally answer the questions we all keep asking on here ( and about time too!). They don't need to be told that they are inferior to more traditional and established scientific areas.
Btw, I haven't led a sheltered life at all.
		
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As much as anything it is getting funding for such studies that is the issue, rather than the people available to do them as it is always more difficult when there isn't necessarily money to be made or saved. The ES students I know were at bristol in 2002, they had a pretty comprehensive syllabus with a good dose of science, poss more so than those JFTD has encountered but all have moved away from science (and horses!).


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## MamaPonio (26 May 2015)

I've been reading on my phone and needless to say, I have skipped a couple of pages but I appreciate everyone's input nonetheless!!

Kallibear, where abouts are you? I want to move close by and be surrounded by highlands, lol. I've seen very few advertised  I'm in the north west but don't mind travelling.  We've actually got one on our yard, a beautiful dapple grey, I'd guess 14hh, maybe slightly bigger and built like a tank. Unfortunately his part of the yard is privately rented and I have nothing to do with them so don't know his owner, I may have to do some snooping and hunt her out though!!


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## MamaPonio (26 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			That was my point about Highland V Fell earlier. My friends 14hh Fell looks quite like a Highland from the side (with more fluff) but weights a good 100kg-150kg less than a similar condition and height Highland. A Highland is by far the most substantial of the Natives (and therefore a weight carrier) so if the OP does still want a 14hh pony (although by now she's most likely put off horses for life! ) then a Highland would be one to look at, whereas I don't think the much-less-solid Fells and similar would be up to a 14st rider plus tack. Which is all the poor OP wanted to know in the first place!
		
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Lol, just spotted this!! Luckily I've got very thick skin and I totally expected this to be a controversial post and was prepared for this to happen


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## Kallibear (26 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			I've been reading on my phone and needless to say, I have skipped a couple of pages but I appreciate everyone's input nonetheless!!

Kallibear, where abouts are you? I want to move close by and be surrounded by highlands, lol. I've seen very few advertised  I'm in the north west but don't mind travelling.  We've actually got one on our yard, a beautiful dapple grey, I'd guess 14hh, maybe slightly bigger and built like a tank. Unfortunately his part of the yard is privately rented and I have nothing to do with them so don't know his owner, I may have to do some snooping and hunt her out though!!
		
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I'm in the central belt of Scotland so not a million miles from you!

Round here Highlands are common but very rarely advertised. Most are bought as youngsters with the intention to show then sold by word of mouth, if at all. If you do want a Highland then you need to go hunting and get in touch with breeders etc. Look for one that's 14.1 or 14.2 and you'll never fret about your weight. I'm rushing off this eve (to Common Ride, whoop whoop!) but I'll PM you as I know a couple sort-of for sale.


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## cobgoblin (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			As much as anything it is getting funding for such studies that is the issue, rather than the people available to do them as it is always more difficult when there isn't necessarily money to be made or saved. The ES students I know were at bristol in 2002, they had a pretty comprehensive syllabus with a good dose of science, poss more so than those JFTD has encountered but all have moved away from science (and horses!).
		
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Yes, I can quite see that funding is a problem. Human medicine relies heavily on pharmaceutical companies , various bursaries and charities to fund research, but as most of the studies done are required by law or for approval by NICE there is a large bias towards therapeutics. Studies into 'well being' such as this topic are much rarer even in humans.
We really need some horse friendly billionaires....


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## MamaPonio (26 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			I'm in the central belt of Scotland so not a million miles from you!

Round here Highlands are common but very rarely advertised. Most are bought as youngsters with the intention to show then sold by word of mouth, if at all. If you do want a Highland then you need to go hunting and get in touch with breeders etc. Look for one that's 14.1 or 14.2 and you'll never fret about your weight. I'm rushing off this eve (to Common Ride, whoop whoop!) but I'll PM you as I know a couple sort-of for sale.
		
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Thank you, that would be very much appreciated! Have fun later


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			SG I'm not sure you were all that polite to Ester though who is equally well qualified to comment scientifically - which was my point in the first place, had you cared not to circumvent that minor detail.  And incidentally, I didn't bring up the question of qualification, I was merely using mine to debunk your claim that someone "in the field" could offer some kind of silver bullet argument which would put the debate to rest, or at least, inform it significantly. No opinion can do that. And no evidence can until it had been published and repeated either...
		
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I asked if someone "in the field" could offer some information, not that they definitely could or indeed should, so nothing there to debunk !!

 Clearly you are not in the related field, despite being a "real" scientist and neither could you offer any information either - don't know why you bothered apart from to tell all that you have a PHD and to be insulting to others who have qualifications in Equine Science.

I accept all the arguments that the 2008 study may have its shortcomings and would need to be tested more thoroughly etc. I also think that its very easy to be criticical of a theory but in the absence of anything else that ANYONE can offer.  I would say that the 2008 study trumps  the use of "common sense "  by a country mile


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			It's interesting from the weights thread that at 730kg AA's Martha would carry 23 stone, at 15.2. (weight taped 650 I think).
		
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I think there is also some info written by Dr Deb Bennett about absolute weight limits.  I think she suggests a limit of 240 pounds, and that no horse no matter how big should carry more than this  (Of course she may be an Equine Scientist - so can barely tie her shoelaces!  )


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## Leo Walker (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			I would say that the 2008 study trumps  the use of "common sense "  by a country mile
		
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I'm not using common sense. I'm using people who work in the field, people who have no vested interest in lying to me. Its not flattering me by saying ride him, I had until very recently, another horse, bigger and probably more suitable, so there was no need for me to ride the cob at all. And in all honesty, I'm not that fussed about riding. I didn't initially ask the first 4 people who said to ride him, it came up in conversations. I'm pretty sure I've posted on here about what and how the vet at least said it to me, if anyone can be bothered to trawl through my posts. 

But clearly these experienced, qualified, professional people dont agree with some posters, so they are lying to me or flattering me etc etc. Yet my horse is more than happy, sound, no back issues and really doesnt seem to know I'm there, which backs up what all the professionals have said to me.


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			I asked if someone "in the field" could offer some information, not that they definitely could or indeed should, so nothing there to debunk !!
		
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That would be an opinion, which is no more valid than any of the others posted on here.  Or evidence which would be meaningless without a full report of methodology etc.  So your premise is a little flawed there...



Smurf's Gran said:



			Clearly you are not in the related field, despite being a "real" scientist and neither could you offer any information either - don't know why you bothered apart from to tell all that you have a PHD and to be insulting to others who have qualifications in Equine Science.
		
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I don't think you're in a position to question my field, or my motives.  But I'll repeat that I wasn't the first to mention my PhD on here (Ester had mentioned that we both have them in a previous post, so you can wind your neck in there).  I'm not obliged to discuss the issue with you, or offer any information or opinions I have - and perhaps if you were a little less disinclined to see my point, you might realise that it is quite the opposite of the one you are trying to make it out to be.



Smurf's Gran said:



			I accept all the arguments that the 2008 study may have its shortcomings and would need to be tested more thoroughly etc. I also think that its very easy to be criticical of a theory but in the absence of anything else that ANYONE can offer.  I would say that the 2008 study trumps  the use of "common sense "  by a country mile
		
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That's your _opinion_ and you are very much entitled to it.  Doesn't make it fact though.  Not by a country mile


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## Roasted Chestnuts (26 May 2015)

Smurfs gran you seem more intent now in winding up the posters who are providing you with valid points than actually proving one yourself. Every individual horse is an individual case, they all have their own limits despite any of these % rulings. My boy is still sound and in work, in fact I'd say other than taking it easy because of his age he could be out doing a lot more than I am doing with him. So if you wanted a case study over a period of time there is an example. 14years of it.

Science in this instance with so many variables is not exact as no horse or pony is the same as there are even types within a breed as JFTD has pointed out one of her highlands is more a 'sport' type ( sorry if that seems offencsive JFTD it isn't intended as such) where as you have the traditional leg at each corner that will easily carry the OP.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

FrankieCob said:



			I'm not using common sense. I'm using people who work in the field, people who have no vested interest in lying to me. Its not flattering me by saying ride him, I had until very recently, another horse, bigger and probably more suitable, so there was no need for me to ride the cob at all. And in all honesty, I'm not that fussed about riding. I didn't initially ask the first 4 people who said to ride him, it came up in conversations. I'm pretty sure I've posted on here about what and how the vet at least said it to me, if anyone can be bothered to trawl through my posts. 

But clearly these experienced, qualified, professional people dont agree with some posters, so they are lying to me or flattering me etc etc. Yet my horse is more than happy, sound, no back issues and really doesnt seem to know I'm there, which backs up what all the professionals have said to me.
		
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FrankieCob from what you have said previously you are riding at 22% though, and are trying hard to lose weight, and going for short and fairly steady rides.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Black Beastie said:



			Smurfs gran you seem more intent now in winding up the poster who are browbeating you with valid points than actually proving one yourself. Every individual horse is an individual case, they all have their own limits despite any of these % rulings. My boy is still sound and in work, in fact I'd say other than taking it easy because of his age he could be out doing a lot more than I am doing with him. So if you wanted a case study over a period of time there is an example. 14years of it.

Science in this instance with so many variables is not exact as no horse or pony is the same as there are even types within a breed as JFTD has pointed out one of her highlands is more a 'sport' type ( sorry if that seems offencsive JFTD it isn't intended as such) where as you have the traditional leg at each corner that will easily carry the OP.
		
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It is not my intent to wind anyone up, but I do agree with the weight limits as something that people should have mind of, and be guided by.  While those who do "real science" can find flaws in the 2008 study (which I don't doubt for a minute are there)  this appears to be the only study of any type produced, with the only alternative offered being "common sense" .    

I am also wondering if those who are considering that the study does not apply to their horse or weight are significantly over the 20%, but don't want to consider this - Its good that your horse is still doing well - there will always be ones that will - equally there will also be ones that wont also, and the study is there as a guide.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

I explained previously why it was relevant to how scientific studies, particularly those which are the only one of their type, are considered. Particularly as I know that I am far from the only one on here and that the others who do would likely have a similar opinion. I'd find it worse if I disagreed and didn't give a reason . If we are talking about scientific studies a background in science isn't really irrelevant IMO.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

Also that I have never weighed Frank as a 14.2 somewhat square short-backed welshie with less bone than you'd think they had if you chop his feathers off, if he is 450 kg that would put me at the top of his 'limit' if he is 500 kg we have a bit in hand but I don't have a weighbridge to check just the common sense, logic, pony in front of me.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			That would be an opinion, which is no more valid than any of the others posted on here.  Or evidence which would be meaningless without a full report of methodology etc.  So your premise is a little flawed there...



I don't think you're in a position to question my field, or my motives.  But I'll repeat that I wasn't the first to mention my PhD on here (Ester had mentioned that we both have them in a previous post, so you can wind your neck in there).  I'm not obliged to discuss the issue with you, or offer any information or opinions I have - and perhaps if you were a little less disinclined to see my point, you might realise that it is quite the opposite of the one you are trying to make it out to be.

That's your _opinion_ and you are very much entitled to it.  Doesn't make it fact though.  Not by a country mile 

Click to expand...





JFTD  I'm not interested in your academic qualifications.  I asked if anyone had any relevant qualifications who could shed any light - yes this would have been an opinion, but it may have been an informed and useful one that may have been helpful, I don't see what would have been wrong with that.    I don't know if Ester referred first, but if she did you were then happy to follow up in response to request for anyone with any sort of relevant  information, only then to say you could offer no information to assist - so why bother mentioning that you have a PHD  and are a "real scientist" ??

You're right you don't have to share any information - so don't respond !  its a choice ! 

I am now going to exercise my right of choice as I just hate academic snobbery


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			It is not my intent to wind anyone up, but I do agree with the weight limits as something that people should have mind of, and be guided by.  While those who do "real science" can find flaws in the 2008 study (which I don't doubt for a minute are there)  this appears to be the only study of any type produced, with the only alternative offered being "common sense" .    

I am also wondering if those who are considering that the study does not apply to their horse or weight are significantly over the 20%, but don't want to consider this - Its good that your horse is still doing well - there will always be ones that will - equally there will also be ones that wont also, and the study is there as a guide.
		
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As I've also said before it would be great if someone could repeat the 2008 study using natives so we had some more information.  I think this would be a useful addition for those who are over the 20% but say their horse manages fine, then we would have some potentially useful information as to how this actually does pan out.


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## siennamum (26 May 2015)

I can't face reading all the replies, and many of them will really annoy me.

Get a sturdy native type, you can share with daughter. If you want to lose weight riding and running around after pony & daughter will help loads, if not pony will be fine with 14st.


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

siennamum said:



			I can't face reading all the replies, and many of them will really annoy me.

Get a sturdy native type, you can share with daughter. If you want to lose weight riding and running around after pony & daughter will help loads, if not pony will be fine with 14st.
		
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The question is will the 14 hand pony be fine with 15 stone 7 to 16 stone ?  The imaginary 14 hand pony will only be carrying 14 stone if the OP intends to ride naked and without tack


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## ozpoz (26 May 2015)

This rider/horse weight ratio was discussed by the Saddle Research Trust during the last years conference and workshop. 
It is so very difficult to do a study when there are so many variables but what a great one it would be!

At the moment, if you don't have either common sense or a PHD why not stick with the old fashioned, but tried and tested method of "if the picture looks wrong... then it's wrong". 
To me, a heavy adult on a 14h pony will always look wrong. I don't care if it is willing/obedient/resigned/native. Rider's aim to have a partnership in sport and not a potential welfare issue.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

I do think some adults can not look heavy though, especially if they are tall and on something that takes up their leg. - I look much better on frank leg wise than I ever do on taller TB types but not like a pea on a drum on the 16.2 chunky warm bloods on the yard either.


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## cattysmith (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			I don't need any more kudos, thanks.  I'm more than happy with what I have.

I'm genuinely sorry that the poster upthread took it personally, but, as other posters have confirmed, it is a common enough opinion.  I have had enough experience with ES graduates and students to inform my opinion, and sadly the local Agricultural College which churns them out does little to prepare them for a scientific career (in my opinion).

eta - the other colleges which teach ES may do a better job.  I couldn't comment on those.  I can say, with a degree of certainty, that a conventional science degree would be considered more desirable in all the workplaces I've been in previously.
		
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Implying and I quote, that Equine Science graduates don't know their "arses from their elbows" is pretty arrogant and rude. I don't think unless you have studied at each institute offering the course you can use such a throw away statement. Fwiw I did mine many years ago now, and there was hardly any equine related subject until the final year. It was all entirely science related and run along side and on an equal par with the other biological science related courses. Science is a difficult thing to succeed in and those who have worked darn bloody hard at their degrees deserve the respect of their fellow scientists. The university I did my degree at still is one of the leading science institutes in the UK.


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			JFTD  I'm not interested in your academic qualifications.
		
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And I'm not interested in your judgement on my academic qualifications - or Ester's (whose opinion you dismissed because she isn't in the mythical field of having magic data to support your argument) - or indeed, any of your ramblings, which I presume are the result of you being deliberately obtuse at this point.



Black Beastie said:



			there are even types within a breed as JFTD has pointed out one of her highlands is more a 'sport' type ( sorry if that seems offencsive JFTD it isn't intended as such) where as you have the traditional leg at each corner that will easily carry the OP.
		
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Not offensive at all.  And it wouldn't matter if it were offensive to me, since it is actually true!


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## Smurf's Gran (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			One of mine is a connie-style lightweight.  He tapes only slightly less than my more traditional one, and I'd be surprised if he's way off 500kg even as a skinny pocket rocket!






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If this is your regular horse and saddle combination - your saddle is too small for you, this will cause you to put your weight on the back of your saddle ( which is evident from the photo )  and over time will make your horses back sore.


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## Wagtail (26 May 2015)

Just in case you missed it, JFTD, (though I suspect you are ignoring it for some reason as I've asked twice now), what do your highlands weigh tape at?


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## Regandal (26 May 2015)

I see JFTD has the Audi S4 version of the highland.  My friend has just acquired the Audi Q7 model.  He's 15.2, outgrew his showing career (and everything else they had) so his owners sold him.  He is massive!  However, he is also beautiful, very well schooled and a dream to ride. If I close my eyes, I could be riding my old ex-hunter.  I'm sure when he canters, it registers on the Richter scale.  Lovely boy.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Just in case you missed it, JFTD, (though I suspect you are ignoring it for some reason as I've asked twice now), what do your highlands weigh tape at?
		
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TBF I don't actually own a weigh tape.


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## JFTDWS (26 May 2015)

No idea, wagtail, I haven't been near either of them with a tape in years and for the life of me can't remember what they were taping then. I had been going to tape f tonight as you had asked, but don't think I will bother since you're being so charming about it.


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## Auslander (26 May 2015)

Any buns left? I'm a bit peckish...


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## cobgoblin (26 May 2015)

Auslander said:



			Any buns left? I'm a bit peckish...
		
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I think they've all been used as missiles.
There's some nice low calorie jellies though!


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## MamaPonio (26 May 2015)

I'm considering comfort eating, gaining even more weight, then sharing the kids 11.2 section a - I'll post some pics


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## Michen (26 May 2015)

Auslander said:



			Any buns left? I'm a bit peckish...
		
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If I could get my head out of the fridge long enough I may waddle to the shop to get some.


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## Fun Times (26 May 2015)

My pony is 13.5hh and I weigh 17st, although most of that is my brain coz I has got a PHD but its only in chocolate eating so not sure that counts. Anyway, i have calculated that if i ride totally butt naked with just a big cushion instead of a saddle (coz her spine is a bit sticky uppy as her belly has dropped what with her being heavily in foal and no one wants a vertebrae going up their foof when doing sitting trot do they) she should be o.k to go for a few hours a day. She has plenty of bone (well, one of her legs is proper fat looking anyway) so thats good isnt it. I haven't used a tape on her because i am scared she gets tapeworm. So my questions are, what colour cushion should I use (the mare is bay and I am blonde upstairs and dark below) and will I get arrested for being totally naked on a horse or did the Lady Godiva Act make that all o.k??


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## Michen (26 May 2015)

Fun Times said:



			My pony is 13.5hh and I weigh 17st, although most of that is my brain coz I has got a PHD but its only in chocolate eating so not sure that counts. Anyway, i have calculated that if i ride totally butt naked with just a big cushion instead of a saddle (coz her spine is a bit sticky uppy as her belly has dropped what with her being heavily in foal and no one wants a vertebrae going up their foof when doing sitting trot do they) she should be o.k to go for a few hours a day. She has plenty of bone (well, one of her legs is proper fat looking anyway) so thats good isnt it. I haven't used a tape on her because i am scared she gets tapeworm. So my questions are, what colour cushion should I use (the mare is bay and I am blonde upstairs and dark below) and will I get arrested for being totally naked on a horse or did the Lady Godiva Act make that all o.k??
		
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L.O.L!!


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## cobgoblin (26 May 2015)

Fun Times said:



			My pony is 13.5hh and I weigh 17st, although most of that is my brain coz I has got a PHD but its only in chocolate eating so not sure that counts. Anyway, i have calculated that if i ride totally butt naked with just a big cushion instead of a saddle (coz her spine is a bit sticky uppy as her belly has dropped what with her being heavily in foal and no one wants a vertebrae going up their foof when doing sitting trot do they) she should be o.k to go for a few hours a day. She has plenty of bone (well, one of her legs is proper fat looking anyway) so thats good isnt it. I haven't used a tape on her because i am scared she gets tapeworm. So my questions are, what colour cushion should I use (the mare is bay and I am blonde upstairs and dark below) and will I get arrested for being totally naked on a horse or did the Lady Godiva Act make that all o.k??
		
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If you use a really fluffy cushion no one will notice your butt is naked. Do you think a couple of tassels upstairs will push you over the weight limit?


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## ester (26 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			If you use a really fluffy cushion no one will notice your butt is naked. Do you think a couple of tassels upstairs will push you over the weight limit?
		
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Or just think you haven't done any ahem maintenance for a while...


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## only_me (26 May 2015)

Loving this thread. Anyone who thinks 14 stone is obese and therefore will maim/kill/knacker a horse clearly hasn't heard of Geoff billington or any other male rider tbh. And as for those who said that a 14stone women is different to a 14stone man - well, yes, in that men don't have boobs on anterior chest which alter balance (depending on size obs lol) but 14stone is 14 stone - no matter how you feel about it. OP yeah you may be a bit heavy for a 14h pony but a cob could carry you no problem!
Oh and of course a balanced rider will damage a horse less than an unbalanced - but that is true no matter if you are a 6 stone or a 17 stone rider!!


As for qualifications, well, tbh equine science isn't really seen as a "real" degree in uni circles including students - kinda gets lumped in with the golf management and history of art type degrees. I know that ES is hard work and does have a science component but what field of work does it lend to? Apart from being a groom/riding school esq jobs etc. where it may be better off just learning via working as a groom etc. it is hard to see what the degree is used for. For the record, the above is general opinion. A few of my friends have used it as a stepping stone to go on and do equine Physio - which you can do straight away (Not the ACPAT route the other one) without having ES. But they enjoyed the degree and it gave them access to a wider understanding which will help them as a Physio. 

Anyway, people who have PhDs are entitled to be proud of their qualification - they have worked incredibly hard to get it and are usually top of their given field. They deserve all the kudos they can get as a PhD is not easy and requires a lot more paper reading than I could cope with  
Having a PhD deserves respect. And is something to be very very proud of!!


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## Fun Times (26 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			If you use a really fluffy cushion no one will notice your butt is naked. Do you think a couple of tassels upstairs will push you over the weight limit?
		
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Tassells? Surely thats a health and safety risk as they could get tangled in the bits of baler twine I am using for reins (another top weight saving tip, although I am down to three useable fingers on each hand now though). 



ester said:



			Or just think you haven't done any ahem maintenance for a while...
		
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I don't like what you are implying Ester. Pony is fully maintained and has her teeth checked and feet trimmed regularly. How dare you imply otherwise. My foof by contrast is completely out of all control tho.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

Perhaps you'd be ok if you ensured you got a non foof coloured cushion... :eek3:.

Baler twine must save on more weight too though  especially if you lose fingers too?


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## Cinnamontoast (26 May 2015)

*Runs in with popcorn*

Just my twopennorth (and there's me without a PhD or anything!) but despite my cob being a weighty horse with over ten inches of bone, I don't really want more than 13/14 stones on him because of his arthritis. It's not as simple as saying yeah, h/w type, shove the whole family on him. Other factors need to be taken into account.


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## Fun Times (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			Perhaps you'd be ok if you ensured you got a non foof coloured cushion... :eek3:.

Baler twine must save on more weight too though  especially if you lose fingers too?
		
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Yeah the baler twine is a real weight saver. Especially as before I used to have her in two bits (coz she pulls like a train) and this way I have dispensed with both of them and just run the twine through her mouth. She don't pull no more either. And the best bit is....no tack cleaning!


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## Fun Times (26 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			*Runs in with popcorn*
		
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Bit inconsiderate in view of the fact OP is trying to lose weight. &#55357;&#56864;


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## ester (26 May 2015)

She didn't say she was sharing though .


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## Goldenstar (26 May 2015)

Well we do love a weight thread don't we.
I thought rugs were the new BF , I admit I was wrong .


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## Mongoose11 (26 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			I am also wondering if those who are considering that the study does not apply to their horse or weight are significantly over the 20%, but don't want to consider this - Its good that your horse is still doing well - there will always be ones that will - equally there will also be ones that wont also, and the study is there as a guide.
		
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I'd be willing to put my life on it that there isn't a single rider on this thread who is significantly over the 20% and riding. Perhaps you would like to suggest what 'significantly over' might be, as you seem to state your opinion as fact on every other matter.


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## Cinnamontoast (26 May 2015)

Fun Times said:



			Bit inconsiderate in view of the fact OP is trying to lose weight. &#65533;&#65533;
		
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Popcorn is low in fat, I'll have you know, apart from the mince pie flavour I had one Christmas. Strangely moreish. I hear *cough cough* that there's also a chocolate covered version....



ester said:



			She didn't say she was sharing though .
		
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Yeah, gerroff my popcorn!! :mad3:


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## ester (26 May 2015)

They sell a healthy chocolate one at work. It is very disappointing.

It would be better if it had about 5x more chocolate on.


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## only_me (26 May 2015)

I've got marshmallows (flumps) if anyone wants some? 
They are fat free and swell in my stomach so prevent me from eating anything else = diet aid


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## Wagtail (26 May 2015)

JFTD said:



			No idea, wagtail, I haven't been near either of them with a tape in years and for the life of me can't remember what they were taping then. I had been going to tape f tonight as you had asked, but don't think I will bother since you're being so charming about it.
		
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No worries. It was just because you said that your younger one taped less than F that I asked thinking you knew what they taped at. I asked you twice and you ignored both requests so I asked again in case you'd missed it.


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## Cinnamontoast (26 May 2015)

I have kindly trawled the Internet for a suitable outfit for Funtimes, usefully crotchless to accommodate her foof cushion, gosh, I'm kind. :biggrin3: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OPAQUE-CR...Domain_3&var=410668918826&hash=item19faf19b89



ester said:



			They sell a healthy chocolate one at work. It is very disappointing.

It would be better if it had about 5x more chocolate on.
		
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Or was just chocolate without the popcorn, perhaps? It should not be the peripheral ingredient!


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## cobgoblin (26 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			I have kindly trawled the Internet for a suitable outfit for Funtimes, usefully crotchless to accommodate her food cushion, gosh, I'm kind. :biggrin3: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OPAQUE-CR...Domain_3&var=410668918826&hash=item19faf19b89


!
		
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Ooh - go for the nude one Funtimes. Nude Lycra is always such a good look!


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## Fun Times (26 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			I have kindly trawled the Internet for a suitable outfit for Funtimes, usefully crotchless to accommodate her food cushion, gosh, I'm kind. :biggrin3: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OPAQUE-CR...Domain_3&var=410668918826&hash=item19faf19b89



Or was just chocolate without the popcorn, perhaps? It should not be the peripheral ingredient!
		
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Thanks CT, that looks spot on. I wonder if they do them in wasabi green to match my exercise bandages. I have to ensure we are matchy matchy as anything else just looks tacky dunnit.


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## ester (26 May 2015)

Oh they do wasabi popcorn too, it is really annoying as smells nice when my colleague has some in the office but tastes foul.


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## Cinnamontoast (26 May 2015)

I wonder if bailing twine would take a green dye? We need it ALL to match, after all!


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## ester (26 May 2015)

errr


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## ester (26 May 2015)

Or more wasabi?


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## Fun Times (26 May 2015)

Awesome ideas ladies! Will rub wasabi into foof region to complete the look!


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## Cinnamontoast (26 May 2015)

ester said:



			errr 






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I've only ever seen it in garden centres, that colour! I tied up my lavatera with it last year. *Nods*



Fun Times said:



			Awesome ideas ladies! Will rub wasabi into foof region to complete the look!
		
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Well, if you're dark down there, you need to match it! Although at the weight you claim to be, is the foof visible when you're sat down?! :eek3:


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## Malibu_Stacy (26 May 2015)

I think this thread has slipped down an Internet wormhole to mumsnet....


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			I'd be willing to put my life on it that there isn't a single rider on this thread who is significantly over the 20% and riding. Perhaps you would like to suggest what 'significantly over' might be, as you seem to state your opinion as fact on every other matter.
		
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 Inflammatory and unnecessary


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## ester (27 May 2015)

Oh the irony!


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## marmalade88 (27 May 2015)

Malibu_Stacy said:



			I think this thread has slipped down an Internet wormhole to mumsnet....
		
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yes agreed.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Inflammatory and unnecessary
		
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Hilarious!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Inflammatory and unnecessary
		
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Best laugh I've had all day


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Thinking about it, SG doesn't half remind me of someone...


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## gunnergundog (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Thinking about it, SG doesn't half remind me of someone...
		
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Hmmmm......me too!  Especially when you look at their postings on the Hunting Forum. Is this their fourth or fifth re-incarnation if it is who I suspect it is?  I've lost count.


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## SadKen (27 May 2015)

Black Beastie said:



			Best laugh I've had all day 

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Read the whole thread, and I enjoyed that particular bit immensely! No insight at all...


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## Leo Walker (27 May 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			Hmmmm......me too!  Especially when you look at their postings on the Hunting Forum. Is this their fourth or fifth re-incarnation if it is who I suspect it is?  I've lost count.
		
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They werent banned so nothing stopping them rejoining. The forum is a poorer place when things cant be discussed in a reasonable way though


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Thinking about it, SG doesn't half remind me of someone...
		
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Oh for goodness sake...


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## cobgoblin (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Oh for goodness sake...
		
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LOL ...it's almost as if the posse is gathering isn't it?


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## ozpoz (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			If this is your regular horse and saddle combination - your saddle is too small for you, this will cause you to put your weight on the back of your saddle ( which is evident from the photo )  and over time will make your horses back sore.
		
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To get back on track, the photo illustrates well the benefits of having a horse which can comfortably and correctly carry your saddle. 
There's a missed learning opportunity here... it is a shame as this is a topic so many people are unsure of. 
 Perhaps some riders just don't want to be better informed or learn new things.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Oh for goodness sake...
		
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cobgoblin said:



			LOL ...it's almost as if the posse is gathering isn't it?
		
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Sorry, is there an embargo on opinions?


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Sorry, is there an embargo on opinions?
		
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No, but you need to grow up. You make it sound like the school playground.


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## cobgoblin (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Sorry, is there an embargo on opinions?
		
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No....is there an embargo on commenting on them?


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			No....is there an embargo on commenting on them?
		
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Not at all and this did make me smile &#128522;


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## SpringArising (27 May 2015)

fatpiggy said:



			OP, please for a moment stop considering what the horse or pony can carry and think about what you ARE carrying.  At 14 stone and only 5'2" you are very seriously overweight.  You may be young enough to get away with it at the moment but your joints will be ageing faster than a person in the range of a healthy weight and you get tired faster, plain and simple.
		
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This is the most sensical post in the entire thread. You need to look at your own health first (and that's really not meant in a malicious way, I promise). 

I'm the same height as you and weigh six stone less. I am bang on eight at the moment (heaviest I've ever been) and feel chubby if I'm anything over that. 

I treat myself a few times a week and the rest of the time I eat mostly healthy. No junk food, no crisps, no fizzy drinks, ready-made meals or biscuits etc. For dinner I usually have baked veggies with home-made oven-baked chips or something similar. My treat is a can of Dr. Pepper/Coke maybe once a week. 

Please try to lose some weight. My sister is overweight and I can't tell you how much we all worry about her. It is such a sensitive subject and so hard to broach, especially with someone you care about and don't want to hurt. 

So, lose the weight, then buy yourself the horse of your dreams!


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## cobgoblin (27 May 2015)

ozpoz said:



			To get back on track, the photo illustrates well the benefits of having a horse which can comfortably and correctly carry your saddle. 
There's a missed learning opportunity here... it is a shame as this is a topic so many people are unsure of. 
 Perhaps some riders just don't want to be better informed or learn new things.
		
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Some of us did comment on saddle size earlier in the thread. Though I must admit that it wasn't much dwelt on. I frequently see riders with their bum all the way up the cantle.


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Poor OP must be terribly confused after reading this thread. So to recap, the majority of people have agreed that a 14hh pony would be too small for the OP, the exception being, perhaps (and the jury's out) a Highland or similar. However, as some people have pointed out, saddle size would likely be an issue if you are either too tall, or overweight. OP is not too tall, but due to weight considerations would likely need a saddle of 17.5 plus, which most ponies could not accommodate. Is this something we could all agree on?


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## numptynoelle (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Poor OP must be terribly confused after reading this thread. So to recap, the majority of people have agreed that a 14hh pony would be too small for the OP, the exception being, perhaps (and the jury's out) a Highland or similar. However, as some people have pointed out, saddle size would likely be an issue if you are either too tall, or overweight. OP is not too tall, but due to weight considerations would likely need a saddle of 17.5 plus, which most ponies could not accommodate. Is this something we could all agree on?
		
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Yes, I think this is a fair précis :smile3:


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## Fun Times (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Poor OP must be terribly confused after reading this thread. So to recap, the majority of people have agreed that a 14hh pony would be too small for the OP, the exception being, perhaps (and the jury's out) a Highland or similar. However, as some people have pointed out, saddle size would likely be an issue if you are either too tall, or overweight. OP is not too tall, but due to weight considerations would likely need a saddle of 17.5 plus, which most ponies could not accommodate. Is this something we could all agree on?
		
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I suspect poor OP has given up and decided to take up dancing or something else entirely....


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Poor OP must be terribly confused after reading this thread. So to recap, the majority of people have agreed that a 14hh pony would be too small for the OP, the exception being, perhaps (and the jury's out) a Highland or similar. However, as some people have pointed out, saddle size would likely be an issue if you are either too tall, or overweight. OP is not too tall, but due to weight considerations would likely need a saddle of 17.5 plus, which most ponies could not accommodate. Is this something we could all agree on?
		
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No, it isn't. No jury is out on a Highland in my opinion and at 14 stone my bottom fitted nicely in a 17.5 (verified by master saddler), so no 'we' are not in agreement. I have come to expect that though. There is no need to presume that an animal of that size can't take a saddle of 17.5. 

Another poster on here owns an almost event fit cob who at 14.1 weighs 508kg (weigh bridge) and takes a 17.5 saddle. Well within the realms of possibility then.


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## cobgoblin (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			No, it isn't. No jury is out on a Highland in my opinion and at 14 stone my bottom fitted nicely in a 17.5 (verified by master saddler), so no 'we' are not in agreement. I have come to expect that though. There is no need to presume that an animal of that size can't take a saddle of 17.5. 

Another poster on here owns an almost event fit cob who at 14.1 weighs 508kg (weigh bridge) and takes a 17.5 saddle. Well within the realms of possibility then.
		
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Well I'm still not convinced about a 14hh highland and if your 14st bottom fits into a 17.5 saddle, well, isn't that exactly what Wagtail said?
Plus a 14.1hh cob is not a 14 hh cob.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			Well I'm still not convinced about a 14hh highland and if your 14st bottom fits into a 17.5 saddle, well, isn't that exactly what Wagtail said?
Plus a 14.1hh cob is not a 14 hh cob.
		
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Then clearly I was responding to the word 'plus' in her post.


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## ycbm (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			No, it isn't. No jury is out on a Highland in my opinion and at 14 stone my bottom fitted nicely in a 17.5 (verified by master saddler), so no 'we' are not in agreement. I have come to expect that though. There is no need to presume that an animal of that size can't take a saddle of 17.5. 

Another poster on here owns an almost event fit cob who at 14.1 weighs 508kg (weigh bridge) and takes a 17.5 saddle. Well within the realms of possibility then.
		
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But doesn't a 14 hand pony who has a long enough back to take a 17.5 saddle have a longer than average back for a 14 hand pony?  And wouldn't that mean its back is weaker and the last type which should be carrying 14 stone even if the rider's bottom will fit into it?


Can we see a picture of you fitting into your saddle? I ask because I've seen more bad fitting by Master Saddlers than I can shake a stick at, and there is one around here who actually prides himself on persuading people into saddles which are, to my eyes, too small for them.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

ycbm said:



			But doesn't a 14 hand pony whos has a long enough back to take a 17.5 saddle have a longer than average back for a 14 hand pony?  And wouldn't that mean its back is weaker and the last type which should be carrying 14 stone even if the rider's bottom will fit into it?
		
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Possibly, but it would be a shame to presume that it would be the case in every instance when there has been at least two ponies on this thread who would fit the bill in terms of back/saddle/bone.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

ycbm said:



			But doesn't a 14 hand pony who has a long enough back to take a 17.5 saddle have a longer than average back for a 14 hand pony?  And wouldn't that mean its back is weaker and the last type which should be carrying 14 stone even if the rider's bottom will fit into it?


Can we see a picture of you fitting into your saddle? I ask because I've seen more bad fitting by Matter Saddles than I can shake a stick at, and there is one around here who actually profess himself on persuading people into sales which are, to my eyes, too small for them.
		
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All very conveniently there is only one pic in existence of me riding and it isn't it that saddle or at that weight. I don't 'do' cameras.


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## FfionWinnie (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			I am surprised that so many on here choose to dismiss anything scientific re weight carrying ability and instead rely on anecdotal stuff such as the horse was okay - obviously its up to each individual owner, but in my view if there is any info out there which suggests you might be too heavy, then for your horses sake, you should consider if you might be too heavy - as opposed to carrying on regardless.
		
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You seem to be arguing with your own science. I have already said this but I will say it again. 

My 14.1 (barefoot measured today) cob weighs 508kgs (weighed not guessed). She is in hard fit condition with no excess fat at all. She wears a 17.5" saddle. She could going on the science you are quoting carry 101kgs or 15.7 stone which is exactly what the op wants her horse to be able to carry. 

Now, I am sure the op (as she has said), wants to weigh less than 14 stone.  Personally I don't weigh anywhere near that amount. However I have in the past weighed more. There is no better incentive to weigh less than for the beautiful cob I am lucky to own.  I am under 15% with tack and I am happy to be there. It takes a lot of effort but it's worth it. 

If the op wants to buy a similar cob to mine and ride it while she loses weight, it's not going to damage the cob in the short term to carry 20%. It may not damage it in the long term. 

The op is best placed to know her own mind and whether owning the right size of horse for her height will help motivate her to get to the right weight for her height. 

A fit muscled 14.2 highland will weigh more than my cob for sure!


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			No, it isn't. No jury is out on a Highland in my opinion and at 14 stone my bottom fitted nicely in a 17.5 (verified by master saddler), so no 'we' are not in agreement. I have come to expect that though. There is no need to presume that an animal of that size can't take a saddle of 17.5. 

Another poster on here owns an almost event fit cob who at 14.1 weighs 508kg (weigh bridge) and takes a 17.5 saddle. Well within the realms of possibility then.
		
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I said 17.5 plus, which means 17.5 or bigger, just like 16hh plus means anything over 16hh. So you have completely agreed with me there, sorry about that. Also, when I say the jury is out, I mean just that. So once again you have agreed with me.


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## ycbm (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Possibly, but it would be a shame to presume that it would be the case in every instance when there has been at least two ponies on this thread who would fit the bill in terms of back/saddle/bone.
		
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Well there are saddles and saddles and some are much smaller than others even sold as the same length. I found the pictures of the heavy rider on the lightweight Highland with her bottom spilling off the back of the cantle quite disturbing as a recommendation of the weight carrying ability of the breed   If that's a 17.5, it just isn't big enough for the rider, and one big enough for the rider would be too big for the pony. In short, that pony is surely too small for her, whether it can carry her weight or not?


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			You seem to be arguing with your own science. I have already said this but I will say it again. 

My 14.1 (barefoot measured today) cob weighs 508kgs (weighed not guessed). She is in hard fit condition with no excess fat at all. She wears a 17.5" saddle. She could going on the science you are quoting carry 101kgs or 15.7 stone which is exactly what the op wants her horse to be able to carry. 

Now, I am sure the op (as she has said), wants to weigh less than 14 stone.  Personally I don't weigh anywhere near that amount. However I have in the past weighed more. There is no better incentive to weigh less than for the beautiful cob I am lucky to own.  I am under 15% with tack and I am happy to be there. It takes a lot of effort but it's worth it. 

If the op wants to buy a similar cob to mine and ride it while she loses weight, it's not going to damage the cob in the short term to carry 20%. It may not damage it in the long term. 

The op is best placed to know her own mind and whether owning the right size of horse for her height will help motivate her to get to the right weight for her height. 

A fit muscled 14.2 highland will weigh more than my cob for sure!
		
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Firstly, I think your cob is stunning. A picture of fitness and health. However, she has a very long back for her height which is not good for weight carrying. Secondly, would a 14.2 highland be able to take a saddle of at least 17.5 inches in length?


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## Bojingles (27 May 2015)

It's such a shame that so many "real scientists" are such insufferable know-alls. Of course, as a "real linguist", I have no peer-reviewed studies to back up this assertion; my evidence is purely empirical. Oh, and JFTD, you're way too big for that saddle.


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## Gentle_Warrior (27 May 2015)

PleSe note cobs still have weight limits. When mine was 12 very fit and toned and fighting fit, he had a weight limit applied to him at 12st  max. He is a very heavy, thick boned, 15.3hh cob cross


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Gentle_Warrior said:



			PleSe note cobs still have weight limits. When mine was 12 very fit and toned and fighting fit, he had a weight limit applied to him at 12st  max. He is a very heavy, thick boned, 15.3hh cob cross
		
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I agree. Cobs are not always the best weight carriers. Many are long backed and lack depth through the chest. They are also very often rump high which also puts more strain on the back when a rider is added. But they are all different, and some 14hh cobs are more suited to weight carrying than a 15hh plus. But then there will always be the problem of people trying to fit their backsides into saddles that are too small for them.


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## FfionWinnie (27 May 2015)

Tiddlypom said:



			Remember this recent thread? No Highlands on there, but correct weigh bridge weights of a few cobs. 

https://forums-secure.horseandhound.co.uk/showthread.php?699139-Guess-the-weight-of-the-cobs

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Thank you I couldn't find my own thread to repost it


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## Gentle_Warrior (27 May 2015)

Wagtail - Agreed. Just bugs me when people say get a cob and generally think they are all weight carrier's! !!  Mine is so much the weight carrier looking horse.  Shocked me when vet gave him a weight limit. Made me buy him  to take out of riding school! !!

And yes, if the horse or pony can't take the saddle that you need then a blaten no! !

Like me taking a 17.5 saddle and putting it on a Shetland and expecting it to cope.  Lol


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## SpringArising (27 May 2015)

Bojingles said:



			Oh, and JFTD, you're way too big for that saddle.
		
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ycbm said:



			I found the pictures of the heavy rider on the lightweight Highland with her bottom spilling off the back of the cantle quite disturbing as a recommendation of the weight carrying ability of the breed   If that's a 17.5, it just isn't big enough for the rider, and one big enough for the rider would be too big for the pony. In short, that pony is surely too small for her, whether it can carry her weight or not?
		
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After looking at the pic, I agree with the above and don't think it should be used as an example (if that's what it was?).


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## Leo Walker (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Firstly, I think your cob is stunning. A picture of fitness and health. However, she has a very long back for her height which is not good for weight carrying. Secondly, would a 14.2 highland be able to take a saddle of at least 17.5 inches in length?
		
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My 14.1hh very correct and compact cob can and does. He definitely sounds very like the chunky old fashioned highlands people are talking about.

I'm more than 14stone and am fine in a 17" saddle. I'm fat, but its mainly stomach and boobs, bit like a weeble :lol: But my actual backside and legs are probably the equivalent to most sze 14/16 people, whereas the rest of me is a size 20


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			I said 17.5 plus, which means 17.5 or bigger, just like 16hh plus means anything over 16hh. So you have completely agreed with me there, sorry about that. Also, when I say the jury is out, I mean just that. So once again you have agreed with me.
		
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Sorry, perhaps I have a different understanding of the phrase. The 'jury's out' means they haven't made a decision, whereas I'm very clear that I believe it is possible to find an appropriate highland of that size. This would mean that the jury isn't out, as far as I'm concerned. 

I also noted to Goblin that I was referring to the 'plus' in your post. Again, apologies if that's not clear.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			No, it isn't. No jury is out on a Highland in my opinion and at 14 stone my bottom fitted nicely in a 17.5 (verified by master saddler), so no 'we' are not in agreement. I have come to expect that though. There is no need to presume that an animal of that size can't take a saddle of 17.5. 

Another poster on here owns an almost event fit cob who at 14.1 weighs 508kg (weigh bridge) and takes a 17.5 saddle. Well within the realms of possibility then.
		
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So you are / were 14 stone !!!!  ahh...  its all making sense now


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			So you are / were 14 stone !!!!  ahh...  its all making sense now
		
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It shouldn't have any bearing on it. I don't ride my horse because I am too heavy for it, so deffo not of the 'sod it' clan.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			You seem to be arguing with your own science. I have already said this but I will say it again. 

My 14.1 (barefoot measured today) cob weighs 508kgs (weighed not guessed). She is in hard fit condition with no excess fat at all. She wears a 17.5" saddle. She could going on the science you are quoting carry 101kgs or 15.7 stone which is exactly what the op wants her horse to be able to carry. 

Now, I am sure the op (as she has said), wants to weigh less than 14 stone.  Personally I don't weigh anywhere near that amount. However I have in the past weighed more. There is no better incentive to weigh less than for the beautiful cob I am lucky to own.  I am under 15% with tack and I am happy to be there. It takes a lot of effort but it's worth it. 

If the op wants to buy a similar cob to mine and ride it while she loses weight, it's not going to damage the cob in the short term to carry 20%. It may not damage it in the long term. 

The op is best placed to know her own mind and whether owning the right size of horse for her height will help motivate her to get to the right weight for her height. 

A fit muscled 14.2 highland will weigh more than my cob for sure!
		
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The OP was asking about a 14 hander though, and there will be very few of those who are up to carrying between 15 7 and 16 stone.  Indeed if any, and there is also the size of the riders bottom which needs to be accommodated in a suitable saddle, which, as has been debated, may likely then not fit the pony's back due to potentially being too long.


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

FrankieCob said:



			My 14.1hh very correct and compact cob can and does. He definitely sounds very like the chunky old fashioned highlands people are talking about.

I'm more than 14stone and am fine in a 17" saddle. I'm fat, but its mainly stomach and boobs, bit like a weeble :lol: But my actual backside and legs are probably the equivalent to most sze 14/16 people, whereas the rest of me is a size 20
		
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I think you would be the exception to the rule. You have a compact cob who rightly has a 17inch saddle, but as your weight is not carried around your backside, you fit in it fine. I don't think many 14stone people would fit easily into a 17 inch saddle. I am a size 10 and only just do! Ideally I need a 17.5 inch because I am 5'9.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			It shouldn't have any bearing on it. I don't ride my horse because I am too heavy for it, so deffo not of the 'sod it' clan.
		
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Yeah right !!!


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Yeah right !!!
		
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Sorry, the post was factual. There are several people here who could vouch for it. I am repeatedly pushed to ride her by friends, liveries, trainers but I don't. She can carry me, but I don't believe she should.


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## FfionWinnie (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Firstly, I think your cob is stunning. A picture of fitness and health. However, she has a very long back for her height which is not good for weight carrying. Secondly, would a 14.2 highland be able to take a saddle of at least 17.5 inches in length?
		
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I would say she has short legs for her body actually!  My point really was that there absolutely are 14 something ponies weighing over 500kgs which aren't obese. 

A person who is 5ft2 and 14st has a lot of weight they could lose (no offence op but I am 5ft8 and I could lose a lot of your 14st and not be stick thin).  

My thoughts are the op would struggle with a much bigger animal and would be better to lose the weight anyway for her own health. That would be my reasoning for buying something like my cob who could carry her now, and would carry her as if she were nothing if she lost a few or more stones.  

When I bought my cob it was via internet and she is exactly a hand smaller than advertised. I am 5ft8 and I want to look slim on her. It's great motivation!

Highlands are immensely bigger than my cob. I actually had a lesson with one the other day and I've got footage of them stood together. Now this highland is quite plump, but even slimmed to my standards would be a bigger horse than mine, at the same sort of height.  We used 17.5" saddles on highlands all the time when I rode them.  An over height one would be a good contender for the op. 

Also another thing is measuring to the withers is a fairly inconclusive way of measuring height. My friends have a pony who measures the same height as my welsh C. They are both Welshes, he is a B. Both our ponies are technically the same height at the wither but he has high withers and my C has no withers. There's really a hand between them if you look at overall size if that makes sense!


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Sorry, perhaps I have a different understanding of the phrase. The 'jury's out' means they haven't made a decision, whereas I'm very clear that I believe it is possible to find an appropriate highland of that size. This would mean that the jury isn't out, as far as I'm concerned. 

I also noted to Goblin that I was referring to the 'plus' in your post. Again, apologies if that's not clear.
		
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So YOU are the jury are you? I thought we, as a collective are. Last time I checked a jury was not just one person, hence why the 'jury is out' because we have not come to an agreement on it.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			So YOU are the jury are you? I thought we, as a collective are. Last time I checked a jury was not just one person, hence why the 'jury is out' because we have not come to an agreement on it.
		
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It's my opinion and I don't need a jury to form it, Wagtail.


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## Cinnamontoast (27 May 2015)

Fascinating discussion, getting a little personal in places. No need, is there? There's a lot to be learnt on here if people would stop trying to get one over each other. 

Anyone care to guess saddle size and height of cob here? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





As well as how it fits the horse, a saddle must fit the rider and I don't mean just size of bum on seat. Length of leg is mentioned at length in some saddle fitting information.


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## ozpoz (27 May 2015)

SpringArising said:



			After looking at the pic, I agree with the above and don't think it should be used as an example (if that's what it was?).
		
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Just to clarify, when I said "example" I meant it was a good example as it clearly showed the problems encountered with larger rider/small pony/saddle interactions.


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			It's my opinion and I don't need a jury to form it, Wagtail.
		
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Oh good grief!


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## ycbm (27 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			Fascinating discussion, getting a little personal in places. No need, is there? There's a lot to be learnt on here if people would stop trying to get one over each other. 

Anyone care to guess saddle size and height of cob here? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





As well as how it fits the horse, a saddle must fit the rider and I don't mean just size of bum on seat. Length of leg is mentioned at length in some saddle fitting information.
		
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Cinnamon Toast I don't know how big either are, but for me, the saddle is sat too far forward, and therefore probably, too long for the horse. Though these things can be very much a personal preference.


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## Crugeran Celt (27 May 2015)

I have read most of the replies on here and quite often when someone says their weight I am surprised how heavy they are compared to how they look. I have a 15.1hh heavy sect d and am 11st 4lb and I am sure he would carry a lot more with no difficulty what so ever but I also have a 14.3hh welsh d x tb and I wouldn't ride her at my weight. She is retired now anyway but I don't think she would be happy with me at this weight.  She isn't much smaller than him but a totally different conformation. It really depends on the horse's shape and fitness. Just look at a Shetland pony they can carry an average adult but if you just went by their height and weight you would only put a child on one. OP I am sure you will know what is best for you when you try some potential horses.


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## rara007 (27 May 2015)

15hh and 17.5?


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## ycbm (27 May 2015)

ozpoz said:



			Just to clarify, when I said "example" I meant it was a good example as it clearly showed the problems encountered with larger rider/small pony/saddle interactions.
		
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And when I said 'example'  I meant that the rider had put it up as an example of a horse which could carry weight, not you


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## siennamum (27 May 2015)

Honestly you lot are talking such a lot of sanctimonious bull, I suspect the OP has long since done a runner.
For reference: 13.5 stone, 17 inch saddle.


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			Fascinating discussion, getting a little personal in places. No need, is there? There's a lot to be learnt on here if people would stop trying to get one over each other. 

Anyone care to guess saddle size and height of cob here? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





As well as how it fits the horse, a saddle must fit the rider and I don't mean just size of bum on seat. Length of leg is mentioned at length in some saddle fitting information.
		
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I'd say 14.3hh and 17.5 but think it is too long as looks to extend past where the last rib would join the spine. Lovely compact cob.


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## Leo Walker (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			I think you would be the exception to the rule. You have a compact cob who rightly has a 17inch saddle, but as your weight is not carried around your backside, you fit in it fine. I don't think many 14stone people would fit easily into a 17 inch saddle. I am a size 10 and only just do! Ideally I need a 17.5 inch because I am 5'9.
		
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Sorry, I didnt make it clear He has a 17.5" now. Its better if he is carrying weight and he can take the length just fine. 

I'm 5ft6 so pretty much average height, just fat with it. I do see people my shape all the time, not everyone who is fat carries it on their bum


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## FfionWinnie (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Yeah right !!!
		
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Are you calling her a liar?  She doesn't ride the horse. Which is a great shame.


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

siennamum said:



			Honestly you lot are talking such a lot of sanctimonious bull, I suspect the OP has long since done a runner.
For reference: 13.5 stone, 17 inch saddle.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




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You should be able to fit a hands breadth between the back of your bottom and the cantle. Saddle looks too small, though not as bad as you often see and in the picture earlier in the thread.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			Are you calling her a liar?  She doesn't ride the horse. Which is a great shame.
		
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This comment was not directed at you, though do feel free to get involved !!!

I think Mongoose is certainly up to some banter, having been rather liberal in dishing it out herself on this thread.

BTW  for those of you who have speculated as to my identity  - it did give me  the best laugh ever !!!  oh the notoriety !!


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## FfionWinnie (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			This comment was not directed at you, though do feel free to get involved !!!

I think Mongoose is certainly up to some banter, having been rather liberal in dishing it out herself on this thread.

BTW  for those of you who have speculated as to my identity  - it did give me  the best laugh ever !!!
		
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You've replied to many comments that weren't directed at you so what is your point here?

You appear to calling her a liar. I know she isn't lying. This is a forum, on forums people reply to things that weren't directed at them if they have a view or knowledge of the subject.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			You've replied to many comments that weren't directed at you so what is your point here?

You appear to calling her a liar. I know she isn't lying. This is a forum, on forums people reply to things that weren't directed at them if they have a view or knowledge of the subject.
		
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mmmm you seem intent on stirring though !  

As I've said Mongoose is surely up to some banter, and she did actually answer for herself  (if indeed Mongoose is a she)   so would seem more than able to cope speak for herself, or am I mistaken and she actually needs a protector  / defender ... surely not !!


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## Palindrome (27 May 2015)

Starting to feel slightly depressed reading this as my bum isn't going to get any slimmer with baby on the way and 16+ hh mare won't take anything over 17'5. It's hard enough finding a saddle that fits the horse correctly!


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## FfionWinnie (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			mmmm you seem intent on stirring though !
		
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*Me* stirring, are you having a laugh?


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Palindrome said:



			Starting to feel slightly depressed reading this as my bum isn't going to get any slimmer with baby on the way and 16+ hh mare won't take anything over 17'5. It's hard enough finding a saddle that fits the horse correctly!
		
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Nah, just look forward to the breast feeding and the weight will fall off you.


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## FfionWinnie (27 May 2015)

Palindrome said:



			Starting to feel slightly depressed reading this as my bum isn't going to get any slimmer with baby on the way and 16+ hh mare won't take anything over 17'5. It's hard enough finding a saddle that fits the horse correctly!
		
Click to expand...

I am not sure the hands breadth thing is correct anyway. It's not what the saddler told me when I queried it.

For a start, whose hand are we talking about (no actually let's not start that I take it back!)


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## Palindrome (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Nah, just look forward to the breast feeding and the weight will fall off you. 

Click to expand...

Thank you Wagtail, that's kind.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			mmmm you seem intent on stirring though !  

As I've said Mongoose is surely up to some banter, and she did actually answer for herself  (if indeed Mongoose is a she)   so would seem more than able to cope speak for herself, or am I mistaken and she actually needs a protector  / defender ... surely not !!
		
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There's at least three on this thread who can vouch that I am female, tubby and have sat in her once in about two years. I have a rider who competes the cob weekly.


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## ycbm (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			There's at least three on this thread who can vouch that I am female, tubby and have sat in her once in about two years. I have a rider who competes the cob weekly.
		
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I think it's completely disgusting that you have felt pushed to have to write this Mongoose 11

I'm sure you would love to ride your horse, and I commend you for not just selling it and buying a bigger one, but doing the best for it.

If you are trying to lose weight, I wish you all the best with it.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			*Me* stirring, are you having a laugh?
		
Click to expand...

Best time ever !!

I particularly enjoyed  the secret identity thing, but not as much as Mongoose needing someone to "speak for her "


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## cobgoblin (27 May 2015)

Ex



siennamum said:



			Honestly you lot are talking such a lot of sanctimonious bull, I suspect the OP has long since done a runner.
For reference: 13.5 stone, 17 inch saddle.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




Click to expand...

The rider needs at least another inch in seat size.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

ycbm said:



			I think it's completely disgusting that you have felt pushed to have to write this Mongoose 11

I'm sure you would love to ride your horse, and I commend you for not just selling it and buying a bigger one, but doing the best for it.

If you are trying to lose weight, I wish you all the best with it.
		
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Actually no one has pushed Mongoose to reveal any information about herself , she has volunteered it all herself , weight included further up the thread.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Actually no one has pushed Mongoose to reveal any information about herself , she has volunteered it all herself , weight included further up the thread.
		
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I haven't revealed my weight. I'd be accused of torture for even standing near a horse, considering what some of you think to be 'large' &#128540;

I did feel fairly 'compelled' after being told 'yeah right' and it was inferred that my personal info shared so far was false!


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## ycbm (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Actually no one has pushed Mongoose to reveal any information about herself , she has volunteered it all herself , weight included further up the thread.
		
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You justify it to yourself however makes you feel better, but you openly accused her of lying about not riding her horse.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

ycbm said:



			I think it's completely disgusting that you have felt pushed to have to write this Mongoose 11

I'm sure you would love to ride your horse, and I commend you for not just selling it and buying a bigger one, but doing the best for it.

If you are trying to lose weight, I wish you all the best with it.
		
Click to expand...

Very kind of you. I have perused the ads on more than one occasion and drooled over Janet George's IDs, but I just can't sell her. She has my undivided attention and on her non ridden days we can often be found out for a walk together &#128522;


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

ycbm said:



			You justify it to yourself however makes you feel better, but you openly accused her of lying about not riding her horse.
		
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Yes I do apologise for my insinuation, just a little fed up with unjustified comments directed at myself from a certain poster, who has certainly "dished it out" in no uncertain terms , in particular suggesting I am some other poster who has disappeared off the forum only to rejoin under another name  - ???

While I don't actually mind the notoriety  this was unnecessary and gratuitous bitching which some would consider to be defamatory


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## So? (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Best time ever !!

I particularly enjoyed  the secret identity thing, but not as much as Mongoose needing someone to "speak for her "
		
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I am absolutely certain 'that other poster', whoever they are, will be offended big time to be compared to someone who openly accused another poster of lying about not riding her own horse because she knew she was too heavy for it.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			I haven't revealed my weight. I'd be accused of torture for even standing near a horse, considering what some of you think to be 'large' &#55357;&#56860;

I did feel fairly 'compelled' after being told 'yeah right' and it was inferred that my personal info shared so far was false!
		
Click to expand...

Mongoose, your memory is at it again.  I clearly remember you posting that you had been 14 stone - so this was not true, and was not your personal information


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## Mrs B (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Yes I do apologise for my insinuation, just a little fed up with unjustified comments directed at myself from a certain poster, who has certainly "dished it out" in no uncertain terms , in particular suggesting I am some other poster who has disappeared off the forum only to rejoin under another name  -
		
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Oh, well that's me wrong then, obviously. I was guessing cptrayes. Similar posting style ...


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Yes I do apologise for my insinuation, just a little fed up with unjustified comments directed at myself from a certain poster, who has certainly "dished it out" in no uncertain terms , in particular suggesting I am some other poster who has disappeared off the forum only to rejoin under another name  - ???

While I don't actually mind the notoriety  this was unnecessary and gratuitous bitching which some would consider to be defamatory
		
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Whilst I commend Mongoose for her obvious and selfless consideration of her horse, she did lead the attack on SG in the first place and regularly behaves in a similar manner in many other 'bitchfest' threads, which have contributed to valued members of this forum leaving.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

So? said:



			I am absolutely certain 'that other poster', whoever they are, will be offended big time to be compared to someone who openly accused another poster of lying about not riding her own horse because she knew she was too heavy for it.
		
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So you think you know what the "other poster" might have thought, but you don't know who they are ??


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## Fun Times (27 May 2015)

This thread is showing the horse world, and this forum, in the most unpleasant and negative light. There is a fine line between expressing an opinion and being downright rude and personal.


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## MotherOfChickens (27 May 2015)

Mrs B said:



			Oh, well that's me wrong then, obviously. I was guessing cptrayes. Similar posting style ...
		
Click to expand...

nah, different part of the country, although cptrayes is posting on this thread.

what is wrong with people atm? the forum is usually only this argumentative in the winter. It might still only be 7 degrees up here but I have it on authority that it is actually summer south of the border


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Mrs B said:



			Oh, well that's me wrong then, obviously. I was guessing cptrayes. Similar posting style ...
		
Click to expand...

I find your speculation a touch offensive tbh


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## MamaPonio (27 May 2015)

I'm still here but to be honest, I've skipped all the cr*p - I started this post for information and opinions (both positive and negative!) and I knew it'd probably be controversial and might ruffle a few feathers but quite frankly I'm disgusted by how rude people have been and how it's descended into a complete and utter b*tchfest.  

Surely a group of adults can have a civilised chat/debate without it resulting in this?  If I was new to horses I would have been put off for life...


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Mongoose, your memory is at it again.  I clearly remember you posting that you had been 14 stone - so this was not true, and was not your personal information
		
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Sorry, you said I had posted my 'weight' and I took that to mean 'current'. 14 stone was a previous weight. No memory loss.


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## Mrs B (27 May 2015)

Tough.


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## Mrs B (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			I find your speculation a touch offensive tbh
		
Click to expand...

Oh dear. But you must admit, the dog with a bone style is similar.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Whilst I commend Mongoose for her obvious and selfless consideration of her horse, she did lead the attack on SG in the first place and regularly behaves in a similar manner in many other 'bitchfest' threads, which have contributed to valued members of this forum leaving.
		
Click to expand...

Lead the attack/challenge her views/call her out for possibly being a banned poster?

Wagtail, you are being a little emotive there. I have been involved in at least three barneys on here, on balance and in view of the amount of threads I have participated in, I wouldn't call that 'regularly'. It should also be noted that you have been a poster on those very same threads &#128540;


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## Mrs B (27 May 2015)

deleted


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Lead the attack/challenge her views/call her out for possibly being a banned poster?

Wagtail, you are being a little emotive there. I have been involved in at least three barneys on here, on balance and in view of the amount of threads I have participated in, I wouldn't call that 'regularly'. It should also be noted that you have been a poster on those very same threads &#55357;&#56860;
		
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Just jogging memories. 

And I always try to defend those being bullied.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Mrs B said:



			Oh dear. But you must admit, the dog with a bone style is similar.
		
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And so it carries on !!


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Just jogging memories. 

Click to expand...

No need. I'm well aware of my thoughts/posting/arguments. Less so than you, it would seem. 

Always defending the under dog is not an admirable quality. The under dog isn't always right.


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## cobgoblin (27 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			I'm still here but to be honest, I've skipped all the cr*p - I started this post for information and opinions (both positive and negative!) and I knew it'd probably be controversial and might ruffle a few feathers but quite frankly I'm disgusted by how rude people have been and how it's descended into a complete and utter b*tchfest.  

Surely a group of adults can have a civilised chat/debate without it resulting in this?  If I was new to horses I would have been put off for life...
		
Click to expand...

You get used to it. I was amazed at first, but hey ho, baptism of fire.


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## Tiddlypom (27 May 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			Surely a group of adults can have a civilised chat/debate without it resulting in this?  If I was new to horses I would have been put off for life...
		
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This thread has gone bat **** crazy, OP. No fault of yours, it was a perfectly reasonable topic to discuss. Not sure what has got into some folk on here, it's not normally like this.


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## Mrs B (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			And so it carries on !!
		
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So it would seem.  It was merely an observation about posting style really, nothing more ...


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Mrs B said:



			So it would seem.  It was merely an observation about posting style but really, I couldn't care less ...
		
Click to expand...

 I do find the suggestion that I may be a banned poster  a little much really


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Tiddlypom said:



			This thread has gone bat **** crazy, OP. No fault of yours, it was a perfectly reasonable topic to discuss. Not sure what has got into some folk on here, it's not normally like this.
		
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I think it's ok to be combative sometimes. No stress on my part, I just refuse to be shouted down by hypocrites! 

Sorry OP, hope all is well.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			I do find the suggestion that I may be a banned poster  a little much really
		
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I don't think the poster was banned, just had a few guises. If you share a posting style and attitude then it's a fair assumption. Several people have thought the same, so there must be something in the comparison.


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			I do find the suggestion that I may be a banned poster  a little much really
		
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Cptrayes was not banned. She was harried into leaving by several other members including Mongoose11.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			I don't think the poster was banned, just had a few guises. If you share a posting style and attitude then it's a fair assumption. Several people have thought the same, so there must be something in the comparison.
		
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It was started by you.   I wasn't even on the thread at the time, I was at work.

It was totally gratuitous and had absolutely nothing to do with the thread and related discussion.  What possible reason did you have for doing that other than to create untrue gossip ?.


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## Cinnamontoast (27 May 2015)

ycbm said:



			Cinnamon Toast I don't know how big either are, but for me, the saddle is sat too far forward, and therefore probably, too long for the horse. Though these things can be very much a personal preference.
		
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I thought so too, interfered with his shoulder, cut rather than length. A shame, it was the most comfortable saddle ever, a Cardanal. He was 14.2hh with shoes on and the saddle was a 17.5. His current 17.5 is a totally different cut and fits brilliantly. 



rara007 said:



			15hh and 17.5?
		
Click to expand...

I'm sending you a prize, although the height is a bit out, I'm amazed at how close you are, tho! He's 'shot up' to 15.1hh now.

His current saddle, same size, different cut. Makes me wonder if he could stand another half an inch. (Not me riding!)


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Cptrayes was not banned. She was harried into leaving by several other members including Mongoose11.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely outrageous. You follow me around to share this information and claim that you stand up for people who are bullied.

Dear all, I had a big barney with CPT (as did many, many others) and she 'left' the forum. Forgive me for I have sinned and must pay a perpetual penance doled out by the forum minister of justice (aka Wagtail).


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			It was started by you.   I wasn't even on the thread at the time, I was at work.

It was totally gratuitous and had absolutely nothing to do with the thread and related discussion.  What possible reason did you have for doing that other than to create untrue gossip ?.
		
Click to expand...

In my opinion you share posting traits. I shared my thoughts. That's it. I didn't even name the poster, but others did.

Funnily enough the last barney I had on here ended with a constant focus on me and my comments (Wagtail and one other) while every other poster seemed to be able to agree/chime in without consequence &#128527;


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			In my opinion you share posting traits. I shared my thoughts. That's it.
		
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Not a very adult way to behave though, starting comments and suggesting that someone is another poster for the sake of whipping up gossip.


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Absolutely outrageous. You follow me around to share this information and claim that you stand up for people who are bullied.

Dear all, I had a big barney with CPT (as did many, many others) and she 'left' the forum. Forgive me for I have sinned and must pay a perpetual penance doled out by the forum minister of justice (aka Wagtail).
		
Click to expand...

Mongoose, read this thread. You are the one who followed me, both on here and another thread today. I didn't make a comment to you until you started with the usual snide comments. Yes, I think you are a bully, but more to impress those you admire than anything else.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Mongoose, read this thread. You are the one who followed me, both on here and another thread today. I didn't make a comment to you until you started with the usual snide comments. Yes, I think you are a bully, but more to impress those you admire than anything else.
		
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I see, a little amusing but ok. I think I'm actually making myself look like a right prat because I can not bear not to respond. Can't see how that would be impressing anyone! I really must get a life.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Mongoose, read this thread. You are the one who followed me, both on here and another thread today. I didn't make a comment to you until you started with the usual snide comments. Yes, I think you are a bully, but more to impress those you admire than anything else.
		
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Mongoose. I certainly think your behaviour towards me has been more than a little off.  I appreciate it has been heated but I have stayed "on topic"  and you haven't


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			I certainly think your behaviour towards me has been more than a little off.  I appreciate it has been heated but I have stayed "on topic"  and you haven't
		
Click to expand...

Yet again no mention of the others who have also deviated from the 'way of the topic'.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			I thought so too, interfered with his shoulder, cut rather than length. A shame, it was the most comfortable saddle ever, a Cardanal. He was 14.2hh with shoes on and the saddle was a 17.5. His current 17.5 is a totally different cut and fits brilliantly. 



I'm sending you a prize, although the height is a bit out, I'm amazed at how close you are, tho! He's 'shot up' to 15.1hh now.

His current saddle, same size, different cut. Makes me wonder if he could stand another half an inch. (Not me riding!) 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Click to expand...

Gorgeous horse. It does look there as if he might be able to take a slightly bigger saddle.


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			I thought so too, interfered with his shoulder, cut rather than length. A shame, it was the most comfortable saddle ever, a Cardanal. He was 14.2hh with shoes on and the saddle was a 17.5. His current 17.5 is a totally different cut and fits brilliantly. 



I'm sending you a prize, although the height is a bit out, I'm amazed at how close you are, tho! He's 'shot up' to 15.1hh now.

His current saddle, same size, different cut. Makes me wonder if he could stand another half an inch. (Not me riding!) 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Click to expand...

I think that saddle is bang on level with his last rib. (Where it would join his spine and not the widest part) so I wouldn't like to see a longer saddle on him. He's nice and compact.


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

duplicate


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## ycbm (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Gorgeous horse. It does look there as if he might be able to take a slightly bigger saddle.
		
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Still slightly bum high, or at any rate not yet able to carry him/herself off the forehand?  I wouldn't put a longer saddle on him/her myself. With the shape of the back, you world also risk bridging unless you could find a perfectly matching banana tree.


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## OldNag (27 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			I thought so too, interfered with his shoulder, cut rather than length. A shame, it was the most comfortable saddle ever, a Cardanal. He was 14.2hh with shoes on and the saddle was a 17.5. His current 17.5 is a totally different cut and fits brilliantly. 



I'm sending you a prize, although the height is a bit out, I'm amazed at how close you are, tho! He's 'shot up' to 15.1hh now.

His current saddle, same size, different cut. Makes me wonder if he could stand another half an inch. (Not me riding!) 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Click to expand...


To deviate slightly from the original question... just to say really like this horse CT. Very handsome!


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## Bede (27 May 2015)

Apologies if the link doesn't work.

www.beva.org.uk/news-and-events/news/view/427

It refers to a study done in Japan in 2013, which concluded that ponies can carry roughly 30% of their body weight


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Bede said:



			Apologies if the link doesn't work.

www.beva.org.uk/news-and-events/news/view/427

It refers to a study done in Japan in 2013, which concluded that ponies can carry roughly 30% of their body weight
		
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Oh dear lord, woman. I've got no energy left &#128514;


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## Fun Times (27 May 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			I thought so too, interfered with his shoulder, cut rather than length. A shame, it was the most comfortable saddle ever, a Cardanal. He was 14.2hh with shoes on and the saddle was a 17.5. His current 17.5 is a totally different cut and fits brilliantly. 



I'm sending you a prize, although the height is a bit out, I'm amazed at how close you are, tho! He's 'shot up' to 15.1hh now.

His current saddle, same size, different cut. Makes me wonder if he could stand another half an inch. (Not me riding!) 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Click to expand...

Lovely pic CT, he is a very nice boy indeed.


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## Goldenstar (27 May 2015)

Bede said:



			Apologies if the link doesn't work.

www.beva.org.uk/news-and-events/news/view/427

It refers to a study done in Japan in 2013, which concluded that ponies can carry roughly 30% of their body weight
		
Click to expand...

Pass the cake.


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## Smurf's Gran (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Yet again no mention of the others who have also deviated from the 'way of the topic'.
		
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But the personal attack on me was started by you, and I was at work at the time so not even commenting. 

 It is true others also commented and joined in, but you did start it.    I apologise for suggesting you may be riding your horse when you consider you are too heavy,   I should not have insinuated this, but to be frank I have had enough of you.  

I do think what you did is the actions of a bully


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Bede said:



			Apologies if the link doesn't work.

www.beva.org.uk/news-and-events/news/view/427

It refers to a study done in Japan in 2013, which concluded that ponies can carry roughly 30% of their body weight
		
Click to expand...

Well the Japanese are not best known for their compassion towards animals. However, having said that, I would absolutely expect ponies to be able to carry proportionately more weight for their size than horses. An ant can carry 20 times its own weight. The smaller the animal, the more weight it can carry in proportion to its size. However, with ponies, we have the previously referenced problem of saddle size.


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## Cinnamontoast (27 May 2015)

ycbm said:



			Still slightly bum high, or at any rate not yet able to carry him/herself off the forehand?  I wouldn't put a longer saddle on him/her myself. With the shape of the back, you world also risk bridging unless you could find a perfectly matching banana tree.
		
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Bum high, despite definitely being full grown. He's actually very light on the forehand. 



OldNag said:



			To deviate slightly from the original question... just to say really like this horse CT. Very handsome!
		
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Thank you, he's a little pocket rocket of a horse. 



Fun Times said:



			Lovely pic CT, he is a very nice boy indeed.
		
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Thanks, he really is, an absolute diamond


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## ozpoz (27 May 2015)

But the study says they set a maximum of 100 k for the horses in the study, which is the weight the animals showed "significant asymmetry" (in a straight line, even surface.)

I hope we'd all stop loading our horses before they reached that point.  Surely staggering about isn't conducive to welfare?


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## ycbm (27 May 2015)

Bede said:



			Apologies if the link doesn't work.

www.beva.org.uk/news-and-events/news/view/427

It refers to a study done in Japan in 2013, which concluded that ponies can carry roughly 30% of their body weight
		
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Hmmmm, study is for 'maximum permissive weight weight load' for horses used by RDA, who usually plod at walk.


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## Fun Times (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Well the Japanese are not best known for their compassion towards animals. However, having said that, I would absolutely expect ponies to be able to carry proportionately more weight for their size than horses. An ant can carry 20 times its own weight. The smaller the animal, the more weight it can carry in proportion to its size. However, with ponies, we have the previously referenced problem of saddle size.
		
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Well if we are up for sweeping generalisations (and I am), its not often you see a lardy assed Japanese person though...except for sumo wrestlers. I suspect they would require at least two highland ponies for each thight. Now I think about it, a pair of sumo pants may be just the thing to wrap my foof in for my bareback riding extravaganza.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			But the personal attack on me was started by you, and I was at work at the time so not even commenting. 

 It is true others also commented and joined in, but you did start it.    I apologise for suggesting you may be riding your horse when you consider you are too heavy,   I should not have insinuated this, but to be frank I have had enough of you.  

I do think what you did is the actions of a bully
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough. It's all getting a little bit dramatic though isn't it? I didn't get all emotional on you when you suggested me a liar and insinuated, therefore, that I treated my beloved horse unfairly. 

I'm embarrassed I've continued posting tbh. I left the forum for some time because people can't handle a bit of challenge when it doesn't go their way, I think I'll just bog off again. 

Best wishes. (Genuine)


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Fun Times said:



			Well if we are up for sweeping generalisations (and I am), its not often you see a lardy assed Japanese person though...except for sumo wrestlers. I suspect they would require at least two highland ponies for each thight. Now I think about it, a pair of sumo pants may be just the thing to wrap my foof in for my bareback riding extravaganza.
		
Click to expand...

 You'd have to fight them for them first...


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## rara007 (27 May 2015)

I have a 15hh section D  He looks similar to your boy but with forwards cut non close contact 17.5 he wees before rides, 17.5 close contact straight or 17 forwards= no issue! I wouldn't put longer on yours  Our 'proper' pony cob I linked to earlier is compact as you can see yet takes 6'3 rugs and 17.5 saddles easily. You'd never guess he was so small, a true HW (we have one on loan heavier!) is a massive animal and they often get the height estimated and on passports wrong, our loan one by a hand and the owner hadn't realised!


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## Cinnamontoast (27 May 2015)

ycbm said:



			Hmmmm, study is for 'maximum permissive weight weight load' for horses used by RDA, who usually plod at walk.
		
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And are to be expected to have unbalanced riders. I wonder, therefore, is it permissible to ride only in walk if you are very over the horse's 20% or whatever percentage you choose to use?


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## Fun Times (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



 You'd have to fight them for them first...
		
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Well I will have a crack (ha) at it but if they sit on me I am relying on you to point out that would def breach the twenty percent rule and they better bleeding get off pronto!!


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## ester (27 May 2015)

Gosh seems like I've missed a lot having spent the evening riding on my 17" saddle on my 14.2 at 13 stone .

Arguably I might be better with a 17.5  though I have quite a bit of boob weight so I don't think you can say at X weight you will need X length saddle- it depends where you carry it! and if I was buying now I'd get a bigger version of him but at 22 and having had him for 10 years he isn't going anywhere! 

Sadly I was also doing some Maths while hacking along and though that if AdorableAlice's Martha is 15.2 and 730 kg if you took 1/15 off that it would make her 14.2 and approx 680 kg, 15% of which is about 100 kg/15.5 stone. Is it really so beyond the realms of possibility that a pony like that would exist? -


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## Buddy'sMum (27 May 2015)

Bede said:



			Apologies if the link doesn't work.

www.beva.org.uk/news-and-events/news/view/427

It refers to a study done in Japan in 2013, which concluded that ponies can carry roughly 30% of their body weight
		
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The study suggested that the native Japanese breed of pony used in the study can carry 30% of its bodyweight but, as the author pointed out, this is likely to vary by breed.


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## Mongoose11 (27 May 2015)

ester said:



			Gosh seems like I've missed a lot having spent the evening riding on my 17" saddle on my 14.2 at 13 stone .
-
		
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Heathen.


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## ester (27 May 2015)

ycbm said:



			Hmmmm, study is for 'maximum permissive weight weight load' for horses used by RDA, who usually plod at walk.
		
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With very unbalanced riders IME.


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## Cinnamontoast (27 May 2015)

Fun Times said:



			Now I think about it, a pair of sumo pants may be just the thing to wrap my foof in for my bareback riding extravaganza.
		
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I fear those ginormous nappy things probably weigh loads, not to mention when they're soaked in sweat!



rara007 said:



			I have a 15hh section D  He looks similar to your boy but with forwards cut non close contact 17.5 he wees before rides, 17.5 close contact straight or 17 forwards= no issue! I wouldn't put longer on yours  Our 'proper' pony cob I linked to earlier is compact as you can see yet takes 6'3 rugs and 17.5 saddles easily. You'd never guess he was so small, a true HW (we have one on loan heavier!) is a massive animal and they often get the height estimated and on passports wrong, our loan one by a hand and the owner hadn't realised!
		
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Mine quickly went from 5'6 in rugs to 6'3, probably more because of widthways expansion than anything. Everyone is always amazed at how small he is height wise. He certainly rides a whole lot bigger.


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## ester (27 May 2015)

Mongoose11 said:



			Heathen.
		
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Well he was 14.2 when he started out :eek3:

He did however see the physio for his 6ish monthly check last week who thinks he is fine and dandy, as does the vet :eek3:.

I'm sure ages ago we did mention common sense and looking at the pony in front of you.


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## FfionWinnie (27 May 2015)

ester said:



			Gosh seems like I've missed a lot having spent the evening riding on my 17" saddle on my 14.2 at 13 stone .

Arguably I might be better with a 17.5  though I have quite a bit of boob weight so I don't think you can say at X weight you will need X length saddle- it depends where you carry it! and if I was buying now I'd get a bigger version of him but at 22 and having had him for 10 years he isn't going anywhere! 

Sadly I was also doing some Maths while hacking along and though that if AdorableAlice's Martha is 15.2 and 730 kg if you took 1/15 off that it would make her 14.2 and approx 680 kg, 15% of which is about 100 kg/15.5 stone. Is it really so beyond the realms of possibility that a pony like that would exist? -
		
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A stone of my weight is frontage. Doesn't matter how thin I am the blooming things remain. I don't think my ass is that large, I need a 17.5" saddle to accommodate my stupidly long thighs.


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## ozpoz (27 May 2015)

How can this study benefit people who want to ride sound horses if the cut off point is the point they are "significantly asymmetric" ??
Indefensible, I think.  And what about the cumulative effects of working under a load that causes asymmetry?

Nope.


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## Kallibear (27 May 2015)

Bede said:



			Apologies if the link doesn't work.

www.beva.org.uk/news-and-events/news/view/427

It refers to a study done in Japan in 2013, which concluded that ponies can carry roughly 30% of their body weight
		
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Scarily it's a study that suggests the pony can carry up to 30% of it's weight *before it starts to stagger* (or 'show gait abnormality' if you want the polite term) then goes on to suggest that 30% therefore may be a suitable limit.

If  anyone in their right minds thinks that it's fair to load a horse up to the point it staggers, they need shot before they get within 20ft of an animal!!!!


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## ester (27 May 2015)

I suspect that is something we can all agree on, hoorah!


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## Leo Walker (27 May 2015)

I hate to bring this up again, but how come the many qualified professionals who have seen me and my horse think hes ok to carry weight, I think up to at least 25% of his bodyweight, maybe more I just haven't done the maths, yet the overwhelming consensus on here is that its not acceptable? And no, they arent flattering me, please see my earlier posts 

Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt let 25% + on him and I do very little with him and am also not riding at the minute as hes put on weight with the spring grass. Something I will be addressing shortly, but as hes overweight at the min I'm not riding him. But all those qualified professionals from different fields say its ok, are they wrong? 

What about the many horses in the US who are started at 2yr old with at least 15% of their bodyweight and then worked quite hard with at least that weight for their working life, then retiring sound and happy? 

I dunno, I only want the best for my boy and I'm only riding him as the best for him wasn't the LW riders riding him, it was me riding him. I wouldnt have done it without several professionals telling me it was ok, as well as my experience of riding him. 

How sure are people that the 10/15/20% quota is ok? There is no decent research so its mainly anecdotal, which is dodgy ground! I know lots of people who are my % who are or have ridden their horses and they are fine. And they are not the little compact weight carriers that mine are! They arent all fat people riding little horses either. the majority are riding bigger, leggier horses with not great conformation who just happen to be tall or more solid than the norm


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## Cinnamontoast (27 May 2015)

Take a 600kg horse with a big amount of bone. 20% is nearly 19 stone: would you really put that much on the horse? My warmblood was 650kg, would I have put 20 stones on him, his feet were the same size as my h/w cob's. I think anything over about 14st and he would have collapsed! As people keep saying, look at the horse in front of you and use your brain to decide. We've all seen the very obese people riding quarterhorses, I'm sure we've all gasped and said its not right. 

Use your common sense, a horse not complaining means nothing, some are very stoic. If you're unsure, don't do it, simple.


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## Gloi (27 May 2015)

Research in Japan
https://www.animalsciencepublications.org/publications/jas/abstracts/91/8/3989?search-result=1

clicking on "full text (pdf)" will download the paper


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## McFluff (27 May 2015)

Hi OP, just another thing to consider - you may find that some of the broader 'weight carriers' are too broad for your hips/pelvis.  Might not be a problem for you, but I've found that some heavier builds are too broad for my own build. I'm 5'4" and well proportioned.
Good luck on your change to a healthy lifestyle - the end result is worth the challenges.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (28 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			You should be able to fit a hands breadth between the back of your bottom and the cantle. Saddle looks too small, though not as bad as you often see and in the picture earlier in the thread.
		
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Are you meaning straight up or on its side here??Nobody would fit a saddle unless you have a small flat butt in that case wagtail. I've had my saddles fitted to me and my horses and I've always had a 17.5 or a 17. I used to be able to squeeze my butt into a 16.5 or less wen I was about 6 stone and a teenager!!! 

Honestly some people need to get real.

I have an hourglass figure and a fair amount of junk in my trunk and there is no way in even an 18inch saddle I could get my hands breadth between me and the cantle!!!


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## Blurr (28 May 2015)

Black Beastie said:



			Honestly some people need to get real.

I have an hourglass figure and a fair amount of junk in my trunk and there is no way in even an 18inch saddle I could get my hands breadth between me and the cantle!!!
		
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A hands breadth in front and behind certainly used to be the standard years ago.  It was what was taught.  Is it not anymore?


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## Gloi (28 May 2015)

Blurr said:



			A hands breadth in front and behind certainly used to be the standard years ago.  It was what was taught.  Is it not anymore?
		
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Years ago saddles had large, flat seats.


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## FfionWinnie (28 May 2015)

Blurr said:



			A hands breadth in front and behind certainly used to be the standard years ago.  It was what was taught.  Is it not anymore?
		
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Not what the saddler said when I queried it. And the saddle (same style to what I was sat on) was being made to measure so could have been altered if necessary.  That was one from AH saddles, the folk who specialise in fitting saddles to natives and cobs and fitting tall riders on those saddles.


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## Goldenstar (28 May 2015)

I think the hand thing is old fashioned non of my made to measure saddles are that big in the seat .
It's beyond vital that the panels of saddles are suitable for your height if you are too tall for the panel you will have no choice ,no matter what size your bum , you will have to sit on the back of the seat then no matter how well the saddle fits the horse with out you on it it will cause problems when you ride .
If a saddle is too big you get lost on it not perhaps as bad for the horse but you lack security .
This happens to me when I ride MrGS's horses who have 18 inch saddles I solve it to up to a point with a heather Moffat seat saver .
Let's be honest and blunt people know when they are on the heavy side and therefore it should be easy to decide that a small panelled close contact saddle might not be a bright idea and a saddle more like the ones used for endurance would a better choice.
I was struck while on a ranch in America how small the horses were for the people they carried and how fit they where for their ages ( some where quite old ) and what long hours they worked .
But the cow person ( a girl ) who was in charge of them was very skilled at fitting the saddle clothes they use under the saddles for each horse .
There's so much more to this whole issue than the wieght of the horse , but that's not a reason to ignore the fact your to heavy .


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## Blurr (28 May 2015)

I appreciate I'm coming in late to post a couple of links which might help to determine if you are too heavy for your horse.  I've posted them on similar threads but never seen anyone pick them up and repost so assuming not, I'll put them here.  Hilary Clayton did some research on the rider-saddle-horse interface and talked about it at the ISES conference.  Somewhere, I have seen the original paper but I can't find it on the website now.  The link below is to the ISES Proceedings and Hilary's paper is on page 35.  

She talks about maximal total force, which is roughly the weight of the rider in walk, twice the rider's weight in trot and three times the rider's weight in canter.  She states that threshold values for pressures associated with the development of ischemic damage and saddle sores have been established (no citation on the ISES Proceedings) and it's recommended that mean pressure should be less than 11kPa and maximal less than 30kPa. To find kPa you need to know the weight bearing surface of your saddle and your weight.

I've put a link below to convert kPa to psi, but for the two figures mentioned, 11kPa = 1.595lb and 30kPa = 4.35lb

I've done a quick google regarding weight bearing surface and one page states that for an English saddle it's 120-130sq inches and for a Western it's 180sq inches, but feel free to find other sites or measure your own, I'm not suggesting these are written in stone.

So, for instance a 10 stone (140lb) rider on an English saddle of 120sq inches weight bearing surface  = a mean of 1.166psi and a maximal (at canter) of three times that so 3.5psi.  A 12 stone rider on a the same saddle = 1.4psi and 4.2psi and a 14 stone rider would be 1.63psi and 4.9psi which is outside the recommended limits.

Bear in mind, this is for ischemic damage (damage to the tissues of the back) that the saddle contacts.  

This would suggest that one of the limiters on the weight carrying ability of a horse is the size of the saddle it can carry. And, if you're a heavier person then you need to look at the saddle you're using and chose one with a greater weight bearing surface to spread the load and get it within the limits mentioned.  If you're unable to find one that the horse can accommodate, then you're too heavy for that horse.  Or perhaps you should only walk and trot.

http://www.equitationscience.com/documents/Conferences/2013/9th_ISES_Proceedings.pdf
http://convertmpatopsi.com/kpa/convert-kPa-to-psi.html

On another note, in defence of the horse, we might accept that the UK is getting fatter, but why should the horse be made to bear the weight of that.  Our average size may now be 16, but a horse is still a horse.  It's not his fault I'm addicted to Victoria sponge ...


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## Fun Times (28 May 2015)

Blurr said:



			I appreciate I'm coming in late to post a couple of links which might help to determine if you are too heavy for your horse.  I've posted them on similar threads but never seen anyone pick them up and repost so assuming not, I'll put them here.  Hilary Clayton did some research on the rider-saddle-horse interface and talked about it at the ISES conference.  Somewhere, I have seen the original paper but I can't find it on the website now.  The link below is to the ISES Proceedings and Hilary's paper is on page 35.  

She talks about maximal total force, which is roughly the weight of the rider in walk, twice the rider's weight in trot and three times the rider's weight in canter.  She states that threshold values for pressures associated with the development of ischemic damage and saddle sores have been established (no citation on the ISES Proceedings) and it's recommended that mean pressure should be less than 11kPa and maximal less than 30kPa. To find kPa you need to know the weight bearing surface of your saddle and your weight.

I've put a link below to convert kPa to psi, but for the two figures mentioned, 11kPa = 1.595lb and 30kPa = 4.35lb

I've done a quick google regarding weight bearing surface and one page states that for an English saddle it's 120-130sq inches and for a Western it's 180sq inches, but feel free to find other sites or measure your own, I'm not suggesting these are written in stone.

So, for instance a 10 stone (140lb) rider on an English saddle of 120sq inches weight bearing surface  = a mean of 1.166psi and a maximal (at canter) of three times that so 3.5psi.  A 12 stone rider on a the same saddle = 1.4psi and 4.2psi and a 14 stone rider would be 1.63psi and 4.9psi which is outside the recommended limits.

Bear in mind, this is for ischemic damage (damage to the tissues of the back) that the saddle contacts.  

This would suggest that one of the limiters on the weight carrying ability of a horse is the size of the saddle it can carry. And, if you're a heavier person then you need to look at the saddle you're using and chose one with a greater weight bearing surface to spread the load and get it within the limits mentioned.  If you're unable to find one that the horse can accommodate, then you're too heavy for that horse.  Or perhaps you should only walk and trot.

http://www.equitationscience.com/documents/Conferences/2013/9th_ISES_Proceedings.pdf
http://convertmpatopsi.com/kpa/convert-kPa-to-psi.html

On another note, in defence of the horse, we might accept that the UK is getting fatter, but why should the horse be made to bear the weight of that.  Our average size may now be 16, but a horse is still a horse.  It's not his fault I'm addicted to Victoria sponge ...
		
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Crikey Blur, dont throw science and reasoned mathematical opinions into the mix else we may all have to start thinking about that rather than just hurling insults at one another. &#55357;&#56836;


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## ester (28 May 2015)

Thanks for the summary on that, it is something I have thought about although that would suggest an absolute limit on an english saddle.


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## Wagtail (28 May 2015)

Blurr said:



			I appreciate I'm coming in late to post a couple of links which might help to determine if you are too heavy for your horse.  I've posted them on similar threads but never seen anyone pick them up and repost so assuming not, I'll put them here.  Hilary Clayton did some research on the rider-saddle-horse interface and talked about it at the ISES conference.  Somewhere, I have seen the original paper but I can't find it on the website now.  The link below is to the ISES Proceedings and Hilary's paper is on page 35.  

She talks about maximal total force, which is roughly the weight of the rider in walk, twice the rider's weight in trot and three times the rider's weight in canter.  She states that threshold values for pressures associated with the development of ischemic damage and saddle sores have been established (no citation on the ISES Proceedings) and it's recommended that mean pressure should be less than 11kPa and maximal less than 30kPa. To find kPa you need to know the weight bearing surface of your saddle and your weight.

I've put a link below to convert kPa to psi, but for the two figures mentioned, 11kPa = 1.595lb and 30kPa = 4.35lb

I've done a quick google regarding weight bearing surface and one page states that for an English saddle it's 120-130sq inches and for a Western it's 180sq inches, but feel free to find other sites or measure your own, I'm not suggesting these are written in stone.

So, for instance a 10 stone (140lb) rider on an English saddle of 120sq inches weight bearing surface  = a mean of 1.166psi and a maximal (at canter) of three times that so 3.5psi.  A 12 stone rider on a the same saddle = 1.4psi and 4.2psi and a 14 stone rider would be 1.63psi and 4.9psi which is outside the recommended limits.

Bear in mind, this is for ischemic damage (damage to the tissues of the back) that the saddle contacts.  

This would suggest that one of the limiters on the weight carrying ability of a horse is the size of the saddle it can carry. And, if you're a heavier person then you need to look at the saddle you're using and chose one with a greater weight bearing surface to spread the load and get it within the limits mentioned.  If you're unable to find one that the horse can accommodate, then you're too heavy for that horse.  Or perhaps you should only walk and trot.

http://www.equitationscience.com/documents/Conferences/2013/9th_ISES_Proceedings.pdf
http://convertmpatopsi.com/kpa/convert-kPa-to-psi.html

On another note, in defence of the horse, we might accept that the UK is getting fatter, but why should the horse be made to bear the weight of that.  Our average size may now be 16, but a horse is still a horse.  It's not his fault I'm addicted to Victoria sponge ...
		
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What an interesting informative post. No doubt one of our 'true scientists' will pooh pooh the study as not being a double blind trial or something of the sort, but it's good enough for me (an inferior non scientist). Thanks for sharing.


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## fatpiggy (28 May 2015)

Tiddlypom said:



			This thread has gone bat **** crazy, OP. No fault of yours, it was a perfectly reasonable topic to discuss. Not sure what has got into some folk on here, it's not normally like this.
		
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Um, yes it is quite often like this actually!  Some people just can't stay on topic and delight in making "smart" comments for the benefit of their private fan club.  Herd mentality takes over and you can see why so many people post about cliques and bitchiness on their yards.


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## Wagtail (28 May 2015)

fatpiggy said:



			Um, yes it is quite often like this actually!  Some people just can't stay on topic and delight in making "smart" comments for the benefit of their private fan club.  Herd mentality takes over and you can see why so many people post about cliques and bitchiness on their yards.
		
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How true!


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## ester (28 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			What an interesting informative post. No doubt one of our 'true scientists' will pooh pooh the study as not being a double blind trial or something of the sort, but it's good enough for me (an inferior non scientist). Thanks for sharing. 

Click to expand...

It is good because it is breaking down the factors involved, concentrating more on one hypothesis (though any conclusions drawn will then be less 'wide') and you have actual figures to play with. I wonder if anyone has used the pliance system in this sort of study as that would provide direct pressure information- although I think mostly has been used to compare saddle fit- it would be interesting to see with a well fitting saddle how the pressure changed with greater rider mass.


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## Wagtail (28 May 2015)

ester said:



			It is good because it is breaking down the factors involved, concentrating more on one hypothesis (though any conclusions drawn will then be less 'wide') and you have actual figures to play with. I wonder if anyone has used the pliance system in this sort of study as that would provide direct pressure information- although I think mostly has been used to compare saddle fit- it would be interesting to see with a well fitting saddle how the pressure changed with greater rider mass.
		
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Yes, I think far more needs to be done in terms of research into this. Opinions vary so widely, I wish there was an accepted formula to use.


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## SpringArising (28 May 2015)

FrankieCob said:



			I hate to bring this up again, but how come the many qualified professionals who have seen me and my horse think hes ok to carry weight, I think up to at least 25% of his bodyweight, maybe more I just haven't done the maths, yet the overwhelming consensus on here is that its not acceptable? And no, they arent flattering me, please see my earlier posts 

Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt let 25% + on him and I do very little with him and am also not riding at the minute as hes put on weight with the spring grass. Something I will be addressing shortly, but as hes overweight at the min I'm not riding him. But all those qualified professionals from different fields say its ok, are they wrong? 

What about the many horses in the US who are started at 2yr old with at least 15% of their bodyweight and then worked quite hard with at least that weight for their working life, then retiring sound and happy? 

I dunno, I only want the best for my boy and I'm only riding him as the best for him wasn't the LW riders riding him, it was me riding him. I wouldnt have done it without several professionals telling me it was ok, as well as my experience of riding him. 

How sure are people that the 10/15/20% quota is ok? There is no decent research so its mainly anecdotal, which is dodgy ground! I know lots of people who are my % who are or have ridden their horses and they are fine. And they are not the little compact weight carriers that mine are! They arent all fat people riding little horses either. the majority are riding bigger, leggier horses with not great conformation who just happen to be tall or more solid than the norm
		
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I think there are probably a few reasons why. 


Some people really do not like confrontation, and will avoid it at all costs. Responding with 'Oh, that's silly! Just get on and ride!' is arguably easier than saying 'Yes you're right. You are too big for him and you shouldn't be riding him whilst you're at this weight'.


An opinion is an opinion at the end of the day. Just because they're a vet, dentist, rocket scientist etc. that doesn't mean they're right. Until we can actually speak to our horses, no one will know for sure whether you're too big for your horse.


People have become accustom to seeing fat people ride.

Etc. etc.

To be honest I don't follow the ever-changing 10/15/20/25% rule of what they can carry. I'm in the party of 'Just because they can, it doesn't mean they should'.


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## gembear (28 May 2015)

Blurr said:



			On another note, in defence of the horse, we might accept that the UK is getting fatter, but why should the horse be made to bear the weight of that.  Our average size may now be 16, but a horse is still a horse.  It's not his fault I'm addicted to Victoria sponge ...
		
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I can't comment on anything else regarding what horses can and can't carry as tbh I don't know enough about it. I'm just part of the camp that thinks if it looks wrong, it probably is.

However, this last part is totally true. The UK population is getting bigger and I can't believe how excepting the nation is about that. Instead of trying to find a horse to fit the weight, why don't people concentrate on their own health first? 

I would never be derogatory to someone who was overweight, but I realised how accepting of the situation we're becoming when I saw an interview of a model agency which promoted obese models (I don't mean just a bit more shapely, I mean very overweight) and they were talking about feeling and looking great and that they wanted to promote that ethos. Now, i'm not saying anyone who is obese should be stood in a dark corner and laughed at, and equally I don't believe in super skinny models either... just healthy. I kinda thought this was wrong? 

Like someone else said, people are either accepting we're getting bigger or they're too afraid to tell someone they're too fat for their horse.


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## cobgoblin (28 May 2015)

Black Beastie said:



			Are you meaning straight up or on its side here??Nobody would fit a saddle unless you have a small flat butt in that case wagtail. I've had my saddles fitted to me and my horses and I've always had a 17.5 or a 17. I used to be able to squeeze my butt into a 16.5 or less wen I was about 6 stone and a teenager!!! 

Honestly some people need to get real.

I have an hourglass figure and a fair amount of junk in my trunk and there is no way in even an 18inch saddle I could get my hands breadth between me and the cantle!!!
		
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The hands breadth should be measured horizontally from the top of the cantle to the rider's back, when the rider is sitting straight and looking forward.


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## Wagtail (28 May 2015)

Black Beastie said:



			Are you meaning straight up or on its side here??Nobody would fit a saddle unless you have a small flat butt in that case wagtail. I've had my saddles fitted to me and my horses and I've always had a 17.5 or a 17. I used to be able to squeeze my butt into a 16.5 or less wen I was about 6 stone and a teenager!!! 

Honestly some people need to get real.

I have an hourglass figure and a fair amount of junk in my trunk and there is no way in even an 18inch saddle I could get my hands breadth between me and the cantle!!!
		
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Another way to explain it is four fingers width. Hope that's a bit clearer.


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## SpringArising (28 May 2015)

gembear said:



			I can't comment on anything else regarding what horses can and can't carry as tbh I don't know enough about it. I'm just part of the camp that thinks if it looks wrong, it probably is.

However, this last part is totally true. The UK population is getting bigger and I can't believe how excepting the nation is about that. Instead of trying to find a horse to fit the weight, why don't people concentrate on their own health first? 

I would never be derogatory to someone who was overweight, but I realised how accepting of the situation we're becoming when I saw an interview of a model agency which promoted obese models (I don't mean just a bit more shapely, I mean very overweight) and they were talking about feeling and looking great and that they wanted to promote that ethos. Now, i'm not saying anyone who is obese should be stood in a dark corner and laughed at, and equally I don't believe in super skinny models either... just healthy. I kinda thought this was wrong? 

Like someone else said, people are either accepting we're getting bigger or they're too afraid to tell someone they're too fat for their horse.
		
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I saw that documentary too and thought it was wrong (if we're thinking of the same one). I don't know what kind of publicity it got in terms of positive or negative, but I just didn't agree with it. Being unhealthily overweight isn't OK, and we shouldn't be setting that kind of example to children and teenagers. I also found it incredibly hypocritical - they spent an hour saying that everyone should be accepted no matter what size you are or what you look like, and yet they wouldn't let anyone model for them who wasn't over 5'6" or something.


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## Emma_H (28 May 2015)

My saddler explained to me that if your saddle is too small and your butt sits on the cantle, when cantering it pushes the saddle up and forward. You really need to be central on the twist with room in front and behind. 

With regards to weight, I'm a bit of a plumpy and as a deterrent I have a photo on my fridge of me and my boy and I go to slimming world.


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## Serianas (28 May 2015)

Not going to wade into the discussion but I would like to say that I dropped about 4 stone to buy my boy, a 14hh New Forest.  Im only 5ft 2ish and I just wasnt comfortable buying until i had... Its possible to get where you feel happy with the support of people, and many of us have been in the same boat so if you want to talk pm me  The only thing i still find annoying is Im short enough to have to ride in kiddie stirrups ¬¬


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## Goldenstar (28 May 2015)

Good for you Serianas .
Back to saddles panel size that's key the bigger the panels the better it is for the horse carrying a big weight .
Of course the seat must not be too long as well .
And that's tall riders whatever their weight get into issues with short coupled horses , they must get saddles that fit them and that's not always easy .


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## windand rain (28 May 2015)

You see I dont think 14 stone is too heavy to ride a pony my 13hh highland carried me when I was as heavy if not slightly heavier than that with now trouble at all and in an english leather saddle. My probelm is when people recommend cobs for heavy people as many have poor bone quality and are often carrying up to a 100kgs of fat the answer really is to keep the pony fit strong and lean and your weight within reasonable bounds after all a horse carrying and extra 100 kgs of fat plus a heavy rider is actually carrying up to 200kgs of extra weight on its joints


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## *hic* (28 May 2015)

ester said:



			It is good because it is breaking down the factors involved, concentrating more on one hypothesis (though any conclusions drawn will then be less 'wide') and you have actual figures to play with. I wonder if anyone has used the pliance system in this sort of study as that would provide direct pressure information- although I think mostly has been used to compare saddle fit- it would be interesting to see with a well fitting saddle how the pressure changed with greater rider mass.
		
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It would also sort out whether heavy balanced riders ride "lighter" than light unbalanced riders


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## Roasted Chestnuts (28 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Another way to explain it is four fingers width. Hope that's a bit clearer.
		
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Never been measured that way. Had my thigh bone measured and had the pressure point machine used and never had an issue. Never even heard of that measurment and I'm over 25yrs in horses how.

If that was the case I doubt many people of even the correct weight would be fitting a saddle. Even now at over 4st lighter I couldn't get the width of four fingers behind my butt in the saddle and I am well within the 15% guideline now.


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## saddlesore (28 May 2015)

I was always taught a hand in front and a hand behind too.


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## alainax (28 May 2015)

Blurr said:



			On another note, in defence of the horse, we might accept that the UK is getting fatter, but why should the horse be made to bear the weight of that.  Our average size may now be 16, but a horse is still a horse.  It's not his fault I'm addicted to Victoria sponge ...
		
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gembear said:



			However, this last part is totally true. The UK population is getting bigger and I can't believe how excepting the nation is about that. Instead of trying to find a horse to fit the weight, why don't people concentrate on their own health first?
		
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It is true that many western nations are getting larger, however I do not think there is anything wrong with choosing a suitable mount for you. I would never consider riding a "ladies light hack" which would have been expected of me a few hundred years ago. We do have the option that we can ride " mens" horses  



Black Beastie said:



			Even now at over 4st lighter I couldn't get the width of four fingers behind my butt in the saddle and I am well within the 15% guideline now.
		
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I can... but the real question is do you have to be able to see all of my hand when I squish it between my bum and the cantle?


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## Wagtail (28 May 2015)

saddlesore said:



			I was always taught a hand in front and a hand behind too.
		
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Thank you. It's a commonly known tip. Though it seems to have passed some people by.


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## FfionWinnie (28 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Thank you. It's a commonly known tip. Though it seems to have passed some people by.
		
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It's not passed me by but I asked a professional and she said it wasn't needed.


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## cobgoblin (28 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			It's not passed me by but I asked a professional and she said it wasn't needed.
		
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I wonder if it's no longer needed by necessity.


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## ester (28 May 2015)

Saddles really are hugely different these days though compare to the swept up panels and flatter seats of old. It seems a bit of an odd rule to me as it is usually obvious if a small saddle is making someone sit too much on the cantle.


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## Red-1 (28 May 2015)

ester said:



			It is good because it is breaking down the factors involved, concentrating more on one hypothesis (though any conclusions drawn will then be less 'wide') and you have actual figures to play with. I wonder if anyone has used the pliance system in this sort of study as that would provide direct pressure information- although I think mostly has been used to compare saddle fit- it would be interesting to see with a well fitting saddle how the pressure changed with greater rider mass.
		
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jemima*askin said:



			It would also sort out whether heavy balanced riders ride "lighter" than light unbalanced riders 

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Hi,

I was lucky enough to be involved in a saddle research day with the Saddle Research Trust, and used a bunch of saddles on my horse. It was only me riding, so not comparing heavy with light, but it did give some insights.

There were three factors  that shone out to me. One was the overall weight (in my case that did not change, but we did discuss it). One was saddle fit, which obviously is vital as to pressure points. The third tackles the point with balanced riders. If I rode "well" the saddle sort of massaged along the back, with the pressure map showing waves of different pressure. If I was unbalanced the pressure was into the red zone. 

The video of the pressure was fascinating, seeing the rising trot was good, but seeing when I lost balance, and maybe landed at the back of the saddle, or tipped forwards, was startling. 

Proved to me that, with any rider, a balanced one was easier on the horse than an unbalanced. It would also stand to reason that both saddle fit and balance would be more vital with a heavier rider. 

I hasten to add I was just an interested horse owner, and do not speak for the Saddle Research Trust. It would be worth seeing their research though, as it was not just the Pliance system they examined but also they stuck white "markers" on me and on my horse to see how my movement and his were interconnected, and connected to the saddle fit.

Most interesting of all to me though was how my horse told me what the pressure map was going to say with each saddle set up. I know some horses are more stoic than others, but Jay did tell me which fitted and which did not, and was accurate to the pressure map.


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## Crugeran Celt (28 May 2015)

Is it just me who thinks that all it takes is some common sense?  The height of the horse can ge irrelevant it must be decided on the build and fitness of each animal and the riding ability of the person. I know I am too heavy for my mare but am more than happy to ride my gelding who is only 2 inches taller. All down to the fact that he obviously can carry more weight. Doesn't take a genius.


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## FfionWinnie (28 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			I wonder if it's no longer needed by necessity.
		
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I already said the saddle could have been made bigger if necessary but it was deemed not necessary. I'm not sitting on the cantle and I don't have a fat backside nor does my horse have a sore back so that would seem to mean everything is fine.  

I could just shoot her tomorrow and get a bigger one but since everything is going swimmingly I think she would rather we stuck with the status quo.


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## gembear (28 May 2015)

alainax said:



			It is true that many western nations are getting larger, however I do not think there is anything wrong with choosing a suitable mount for you. I would never consider riding a "ladies light hack" which would have been expected of me a few hundred years ago. We do have the option that we can ride " mens" horses 

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My underling point was that as a nation, why are we so accepting that everyone is getting bigger to the point of being unhealthy? 

Rather than first thinking... oh i'm overweight, so I need to get X horse to carry my weight... shouldn't it be.... oh i'm overweight, this is unhealthy and causing/will cause lots of issues in my life, I need lose weight - which will also mean I will have lots more options when buying a horse.


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## Wiz201 (28 May 2015)

gembear said:



			My underling point was that as a nation, why are we so accepting that everyone is getting bigger to the point of being unhealthy? 

Rather than first thinking... oh i'm overweight, so I need to get X horse to carry my weight... shouldn't it be.... oh i'm overweight, this is unhealthy and causing/will cause lots of issues in my life, I need lose weight - which will also mean I will have lots more options when buying a horse.
		
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easier said than done sadly. I'm about to try again losing weight, very difficult with a condition that causes weight gain.


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## cobgoblin (28 May 2015)

E



FfionWinnie said:



			I already said the saddle could have been made bigger if necessary but it was deemed not necessary. I'm not sitting on the cantle and I don't have a fat backside nor does my horse have a sore back so that would seem to mean everything is fine.  

I could just shoot her tomorrow and get a bigger one but since everything is going swimmingly I think she would rather we stuck with the status quo.
		
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I didn't realise you were only talking about yourself. I thought we were talking about it being no longer necessary in more general terms. Presumably if your saddler doesn't think you need the space in the saddle he/she would advise others in the same way.


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## gunnergundog (28 May 2015)

ester said:



			Saddles really are hugely different these days though compare to the swept up panels and flatter seats of old. It seems a bit of an odd rule to me as it is usually obvious if a small saddle is making someone sit too much on the cantle.
		
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I think it may depend a bit on the discipline and type of saddle.

For instance, in my experience, flat seated saddles are still sought after for XC in order to allow the jockey to push his arse back over a fence whilst riding short and also so as not to be whacked in the small of the back by a banana curved cantle when leaning back over a drop.  In this instance I would suggest that a hands width behind the bum could be a good indicator as to fit - along with the other usual measures of course!

I had to smile at your comment about older saddles being flatter.....I still have nightmares at the U shaped County dressage saddles (and other makes too!) that I used to inflict on my ned in the early 70s!    In hindsight, they were truly hideous.


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## gembear (28 May 2015)

SpringArising said:



			I saw that documentary too and thought it was wrong (if we're thinking of the same one). I don't know what kind of publicity it got in terms of positive or negative, but I just didn't agree with it. Being unhealthily overweight isn't OK, and we shouldn't be setting that kind of example to children and teenagers. I also found it incredibly hypocritical - they spent an hour saying that everyone should be accepted no matter what size you are or what you look like, and yet they wouldn't let anyone model for them who wasn't over 5'6" or something.
		
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I didn't actually see the whole documentary, I saw one of the models in it being interviewed by a news channel. They were promoting the programme which was on later that week but I missed it because I was busy. So, i presume it was the same one.

I know some people find it harder to lose weight. I use to be able to eat what I wanted within reason, although I still went to the gym & went running. Now i've noticed i've put on nearly a stone since hitting my 30's and now have changed my eating habits to reflect this. (now 9st for a 14.3 welsh d, for anyone wondering).

However, being healthy is perfectly doo-able.
I get the impression most people just can't be bothered.


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## gembear (28 May 2015)

Wiz201 said:



			easier said than done sadly. I'm about to try again losing weight, very difficult with a condition that causes weight gain.
		
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I do feel for people who do struggle to lose weight. I now find it much harder to eat what I want, but i've accepted that and deal with it accordingly (cakes and biscuits are now a rare treat).

My other half eats whatever he wants and still looks like a rake.


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## FfionWinnie (28 May 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			E

I didn't realise you were only talking about yourself. I thought we were talking about it being no longer necessary in more general terms. Presumably if your saddler doesn't think you need the space in the saddle he/she would advise others in the same way.
		
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I was saying that the hands breadth thing has not passed me by. I am quite aware of what used to be advised. I am not convinced it still is as saddles and the fitting of them has changed dramatically even in the last few years. And I mean for the better, for the horse's comfort. You then quoted me and said words to the effect that it had changed possibly for necessity so I explained that in my case at least, it was not for necessity.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (28 May 2015)

ester said:



			I don't think anyone can talk about being at the top of the a horses 'limit' when there is no fail proof formula to say what this limit is .

% of weight misses out rather a lot of factors, and arabs rather mess up measuring bone as well.
		
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As I've stated previously  , if the horse braces itself when you prepare to mount you're too heavy!&#128540;


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## YorksG (28 May 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			I was saying that the hands breadth thing has not passed me by. I am quite aware of what used to be advised. I am not convinced it still is as saddles and the fitting of them has changed dramatically even in the last few years. And I mean for the better, for the horse's comfort. You then quoted me and said words to the effect that it had changed possibly for necessity so I explained that in my case at least, it was not for necessity.
		
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However, for those who are unsure of their size relative to the horse they wish to ride, then perhaps if the saddle is fitted to the horse, a guide for them would be a hand in front and one behind. As an aside, having seen a lot of riders at a local show this weekend,, sitting on the back of the saddle, in a chair seat, perhaps it could be re-introduced!


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## ester (28 May 2015)

I guess that is perhaps what people mean by riding 'light' ie centered and not causing areas of high pressure where there shouldn't be - further to Red-1s experience (thanks for that Red-1, interesting!) 

gunnergundog, I wasn't around in the 70s . TBF the only older saddles I've dealt with are usually pony GPs at riding schools. I would want something flatter with space behind if I were XCing but then if I was doing that seriously I wouldn't have an aged welshie either


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## gunnergundog (29 May 2015)

ester said:



			gunnergundog, I wasn't around in the 70s . TBF the only older saddles I've dealt with are usually pony GPs at riding schools. I would want something flatter with space behind if I were XCing but then if I was doing that seriously I wouldn't have an aged welshie either 

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Now feeling VERY old!


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## PaddyMonty (29 May 2015)

Being a simple person I like simple tests - if yer bum is wider than the horses then you shouldn't ride it.


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## *hic* (29 May 2015)

ester said:



			I guess that is perhaps what people mean by riding 'light' ie centered and not causing areas of high pressure where there shouldn't be - further to Red-1s experience (thanks for that Red-1, interesting!)
		
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I'm certain of it, however others will strongly point out that 14 stone is 14 stone, no matter what. If someone of 10 stone is putting excessive pressure on any part of the back then that is worse for the horse, more difficult, than someone of 14 stone whose weight is spread evenly IMHO.


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## *hic* (29 May 2015)

PaddyMonty said:



			Being a simple person I like simple tests - if yer bum is wider than the horses then you shouldn't ride it.
		
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 Cue mad rush for draft horses . . .


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## Kallibear (29 May 2015)

jemima*askin said:



			I'm certain of it, however others will strongly point out that 14 stone is 14 stone, no matter what. If someone of 10 stone is putting excessive pressure on any part of the back then that is worse for the horse, more difficult, than someone of 14 stone whose weight is spread evenly IMHO.
		
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Good riding does not make you levitate and 14st will always be 14st. Which for some ponies is far more than is fair to make them carry. Pointing out that some lightweight riders ride badly doesn't change that. 

At best 14st is well balanced and spread evenly.  That still makes them 14st OR MORE. And being 14st doesn't automatically make you a top riders and everyone makes mistakes at times.  A 10st rider's mistake (say it doubles the weight in an area briefly) may occasionally feel like 20st. A 14st rider will feel like 28st. 

A balanced 14st rider may be better than an unbalanced 10st rider but no 14st rider will ever rider 'lighter' than an equally balanced 10st riders.  And when 'balance' don't really come into play (so the majority of walk work for the 'average' horse owning rider) then the 14st rider is nearly 50% extra pressing unendingly down into the horses back.


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## cobgoblin (29 May 2015)

X



Kallibear said:



			Good riding does not make you levitate and 14st will always be 14st. Which for some ponies is far more than is fair to make them carry. Pointing out that some lightweight riders ride badly doesn't change that. 

At best 14st is well balanced and spread evenly.  That still makes them 14st OR MORE. And being 14st doesn't automatically make you a top riders and everyone makes mistakes at times.  A 10st rider's mistake (say it doubles the weight in an area briefly) may occasionally feel like 20st. A 14st rider will feel like 28st. 

A balanced 14st rider may be better than an unbalanced 10st rider but no 14st rider will ever rider 'lighter' than an equally balanced 10st riders.  And when 'balance' don't really come into play (so the majority of walk work for the 'average' horse owning rider) then the 14st rider is nearly 50% extra pressing unendingly down into the horses back.
		
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Well said.


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## Wagtail (29 May 2015)

jemima*askin said:



			I'm certain of it, however others will strongly point out that 14 stone is 14 stone, no matter what. If someone of 10 stone is putting excessive pressure on any part of the back then that is worse for the horse, more difficult, than someone of 14 stone whose weight is spread evenly IMHO.
		
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Well as I am 10 stone I must be a terribly unbalanced rider . I wonder why it is that all heavyweight riders ride so well and in balance when all the lighter riders (those 10 stone and under) seem to be such unbalanced equestrians, who bump about on their horses causing all kinds of pressure points and discomfort. Am I missing something?

Sorry, not getting at you here, but it seems to be a point that is always made in these threads and it worries me that people actually think it. There will probably be more unbalanced riders who are overweight than there are who are a healthy weight, if anything, because generally speaking people of a healthy weight are fitter and more supple than people who are unhealthily overweight. It is much harder trying to balance when you are carrying excess weight. I say generally speaking, because there will be exceptions, of course.


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## alainax (29 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			Good riding does not make you levitate and 14st will always be 14st. .
		
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Indeed, hence why "riding light" is a daft phrase. What I prefer is "riding heavy". There are very many light riders who ride heavy as often are not aware of how their weight might have an impact on the horse ( there are of course very many excellent ones too!). I would rather a heavier balanced rider on my horse, than a lighter one "riding heavy" - well within the horses capabilities of course.  When I was training my OH to ride, he had no stirrups or reins and was taught how to influence the horse with seat alone. Seat is often left out when teaching new riders these days


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## SpringArising (29 May 2015)

Kallibear said:



			Good riding does not make you levitate and 14st will always be 14st.
		
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Agree. And if a six stone person is riding with all their weight in one stirrup, that's probably worse than an even fourteen-stone rider. That still doesn't mean I'd want anyone who is fourteen stone riding something that might not be up to carrying that weight (and honestly, I wouldn't want to put fourteen stone on most things). 

We once had a very chunky 13.2 Connie gelding. Tough as nails and sturdy as anything. Good example of the breed with a nice short back. Our twelve-stone friend asked if she could have a sit on him and we said yes out of politeness. As soon as she got on the pony's hocks buckled for about three seconds and he grunted - no exaggeration. 

I do think that a lot of people over-estimate what they can carry; maybe because they don't want to admit to themselves that something needs to be done about their own weight. I had to send a very awkward email to a prospective buyer not so long ago, telling her that I feel she is bigger than what the horse could carry. 

It would be a lot nicer for everyone if people were realistic.


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## PaddyMonty (29 May 2015)

alainax said:



			I would rather a heavier balanced rider on my horse, than a lighter one "riding heavy".
		
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And I'd rather have a light balanced rider 
Simple fact, it's a lot easier to be in balance when not overweight, especially on a horse. Therefore it would seem logical that there are more unbalanced heavy riders than their are unbalanced light riders.


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## ester (29 May 2015)

I wasn't suggesting that 14st wasn't 14st, but given the results that Red-1 saw sitting well seemed to make a huge difference rather than just pure weight, light and balanced ideal but that does again go back to what suitably light is . It is also possible to carry some excess and have pretty impressive core strength and fitness so I don't think the above is always logical PM.


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## PaddyMonty (29 May 2015)

ester said:



			It is also possible to carry some excess and have pretty impressive core strength and fitness so I don't think the above is always logical PM.
		
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Possible but not the norm from my experience teaching a wide range of pupils.


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## Sukistokes2 (29 May 2015)

Nothing like a fat thread to get everyone going!


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## YorksG (29 May 2015)

With a BMI of 35+ the OP is obese and therefore very unlikely to be able to ride in as good a balance as some-one within the healthy range for their height. I am also confused  as to why there appears to be a belief that riders within the healthy BMI range, will automatically ride badly, without balance and with no core strength or muscle control, that really is more likely with obese riders!


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## ester (29 May 2015)

I don't think anyone was saying that, just that the opposite is automatically true either.

And thought it interesting that the whole balanced heavier v. unbalanced lighter (however rarely those combos might occur) very often comes up on here and Red-1s observations perhaps shed a bit of light on that.


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## Auslander (29 May 2015)

I can't really be bothered to get embroiled in a weight thread, but I have a story to tell about something myself and a bunch of other young dressagey people were made to do by our trainer in Germany. He was on the yard when we came back from hacking, and was furious because certain people were slouching, moving around in the saddle, and just generally slobbing about. He filled one rucksack to the brim with neatly packed yard jackets and boots and strapped it on to the nearest person firmly. He put a few bricks in another, and just hung it off the shoulders of the next person. He made them run round the school a few times, then swap rucksacks, and try again. Both agreed that the firmly strapped on rucksack (which was heavier) was easier to carry than the lighter, looser one with a few bricks bouncing aroud in it. I agree that a horse carrying 14 stones is carrying 14 stones, but 14 stones of balanced, competent rider is a damn sight easier to carry than 11 stones banging around on a horses back. Equally 11 stones of balanced competent rider is easier to carry thatn 14 stones of the same.


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## gembear (29 May 2015)

Going back on what the OP said, she mentioned she'd ridden a lot in the past but hadn't for a while and therefore was getting back into it.

As such, I don't think any horse would be suitable unless she lost some weight, as her balance isn't going to be as good as it might have been.

Also, no-one can say they 100% keep their balance at all times. Therefore, a heavy rider is going to be more detrimental to a horse than a lighter one when that happens. 

Just getting to the point I guess.


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## cobgoblin (29 May 2015)

An unbalanced lightweight rider can quickly become a lightweight balanced rider, whereas a heavy balanced rider has to shift a lot of weight to become the same.


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## ester (29 May 2015)

Depends how often they have their lessons .


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## Araboo27 (29 May 2015)

Just out of curiosity - what weight would people put on an 11.2 section a? My kids are all light, even the girl at the yard who's rode her is only 4 stone, I can't imagine her wanting to carry too much more yet I've seen posts where adults of significantly more weight say they would ride one! Now we're obviously not talking 14 stone, lol......


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## ester (29 May 2015)

You see a fair number of teens/small adults showing them ridden.


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## Wiz201 (29 May 2015)

PaddyMonty said:



			Being a simple person I like simple tests - if yer bum is wider than the horses then you shouldn't ride it.
		
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jemima*askin said:



			Cue mad rush for draft horses . . .
		
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I'm getting down to 14 stone for this chap, but according to PaddyMonty's theory I could ride him now cause my bum is smaller than his lol


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## Wagtail (29 May 2015)

Araboo27 said:



			Just out of curiosity - what weight would people put on an 11.2 section a? My kids are all light, even the girl at the yard who's rode her is only 4 stone, I can't imagine her wanting to carry too much more yet I've seen posts where adults of significantly more weight say they would ride one! Now we're obviously not talking 14 stone, lol......
		
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Maximum I would put on is 7 stone (and not for any hard riding), so long as the rider was an accomplished rider. However, I'd not put more than a 5 stone novice.


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## Araboo27 (29 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Maximum I would put on is 7 stone (and not for any hard riding), so long as the rider was an accomplished rider. However, I'd not put more than a 5 stone novice.
		
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Yes, that's what I'd have said


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## Arthur-Badger-And Me (29 May 2015)

I am about 5ft5/5ft6 and weigh 15 stone exactly at the moment. I am on a diet and loosing weight and feeling better and better every day. I have an about 15hh 10 year old black heavyweight cob and a 14.3hh piebald cob. I ride both ever other day (one on one day and the other the next) and both seem to carry me fine and have no issues, are very happy and healthy horses. I am a firm believer that a 14 stone confident and able rider who has a good position and can hold themselves in the saddle nicely (heels down, straight back etc.) is about 100 times easier for the horse to carry than a 8 stone novice rider, who really cant ride, slouches in the saddle, bounces around and shakes the reins etc. Go for it, go and try out some horses and you will tell straight away if they are the horse for you, if you have to contemplate it then it's not the right horse. You will meet the horse and have a connection, get on the horse and you will just have fun without any worries about whether they can carry you etc. That will be when you know you have found your horse  You are definitely no way too heavy to ride!


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## *hic* (29 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Well as I am 10 stone I must be a terribly unbalanced rider . I wonder why it is that all heavyweight riders ride so well and in balance when all the lighter riders (those 10 stone and under) seem to be such unbalanced equestrians, who bump about on their horses causing all kinds of pressure points and discomfort. Am I missing something?

Sorry, not getting at you here, but it seems to be a point that is always made in these threads and it worries me that people actually think it. There will probably be more unbalanced riders who are overweight than there are who are a healthy weight, if anything, because generally speaking people of a healthy weight are fitter and more supple than people who are unhealthily overweight. It is much harder trying to balance when you are carrying excess weight. I say generally speaking, because there will be exceptions, of course.
		
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Can someone please point out where I have said all 10 stone riders are unbalanced and all 14 stone riders are balanced!

THat's a request to the various people who have commented


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## *hic* (29 May 2015)

Sukistokes2 said:



			Nothing like a fat thread to get everyone going!
		
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Yup, why the heck did I comment


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## *hic* (29 May 2015)

Auslander said:



			I can't really be bothered to get embroiled in a weight thread, but I have a story to tell about something myself and a bunch of other young dressagey people were made to do by our trainer in Germany. He was on the yard when we came back from hacking, and was furious because certain people were slouching, moving around in the saddle, and just generally slobbing about. He filled one rucksack to the brim with neatly packed yard jackets and boots and strapped it on to the nearest person firmly. He put a few bricks in another, and just hung it off the shoulders of the next person. He made them run round the school a few times, then swap rucksacks, and try again. Both agreed that the firmly strapped on rucksack (which was heavier) was easier to carry than the lighter, looser one with a few bricks bouncing aroud in it. I agree that a horse carrying 14 stones is carrying 14 stones, but 14 stones of balanced, competent rider is a damn sight easier to carry than 11 stones banging around on a horses back. Equally 11 stones of balanced competent rider is easier to carry thatn 14 stones of the same.
		
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Now why couldn,t I have explained it like that?


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## *hic* (29 May 2015)

YorksG said:



			With a BMI of 35+ the OP is obese and therefore very unlikely to be able to ride in as good a balance as some-one within the healthy range for their height. I am also confused  as to why there appears to be a belief that riders within the healthy BMI range, will automatically ride badly, without balance and with no core strength or muscle control, that really is more likely with obese riders!
		
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Absolutely, it's more likely in the obese - but it isn't exclusively the obese.


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## Wagtail (29 May 2015)

jemima*askin said:



			Can someone please point out where I have said all 10 stone riders are unbalanced and all 14 stone riders are balanced!

THat's a request to the various people who have commented 

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No, it's not specifically directed at you, but at the comment which is always made on these threads numerous times that it's better to have a heavy balanced rider than a light unbalanced one. When the fact is, that if you are overweight you are far more likely to be unbalanced than if you are a healthy weight. I say 'more likely' because there will be exceptions. But when we are talking about how much weight a horse can carry, it is not a valid argument. You have to take into account weight and riding ability. The OP in this thread has not ridden for some time and is obese. She is unlikely to be balanced, at least at first and so should not be looking at riding horses with a maximum weight carrying ability of 14 stone (without clothing and tack) or 16 stone (with clothing and tack).

But back to your comment; it gives the impression that all overweight people ride beautifully and never lose balance, where as all lighter people ride like a sack of spuds.


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## Arthur-Badger-And Me (29 May 2015)

*Note to self* Never post a thread asking about anything involving weight on this forum *


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## RunToEarth (29 May 2015)

I just would like to know why so many riders seem to have zero common sense when it comes to riding over weight - because all the equations in the world can be countered with common sense when it comes to (not) getting on your horse. 

I agree wagtail - the "light balanced heavy rider" argument is just mindless - head in sand IMO.


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## Mrs B (29 May 2015)

Arthur-Badger-And Me said:



			*Note to self* Never post a thread asking about anything involving weight on this forum *
		
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Dare you. Find a way to combine it with cobs, draw reins, NH and barefoot and it's online TNT ... 

If you really want to add fuel, ask what rug you should have put on your horse today


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## Red-1 (29 May 2015)

Mrs B said:



			Dare you. Find a way to combine it with cobs, draw reins, NH and barefoot and it's online TNT ... 

If you really want to add fuel, ask what rug you should have put on your horse today 

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You forgot the colour scheme of all this equipment!


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## Arthur-Badger-And Me (29 May 2015)

Mrs B said:



			Dare you. Find a way to combine it with cobs, draw reins, NH and barefoot and it's online TNT ... 

If you really want to add fuel, ask what rug you should have put on your horse today 

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HAHAHA I like you  You made me laugh a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mrs B (29 May 2015)

Red-1 said:



			You forgot the colour scheme of all this equipment!
		
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Bum. Missed a trick there ...  But I vote for purple-pink with rhinestone sprinkles every time.

And you're welcome, Arthur-Badger-And Me. You don't have to be mad to post here, but it helps


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## Cobbytype (29 May 2015)

Mrs B said:



			Dare you. Find a way to combine it with cobs, draw reins, NH and barefoot and it's online TNT ... 

If you really want to add fuel, ask what rug you should have put on your horse today 

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You forgot turmeric


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## Mrs B (29 May 2015)

Cobbytype said:



			You forgot turmeric

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Dear me ... I AM getting forgetful ... 


Did I mention ragwort yet?


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## Arthur-Badger-And Me (29 May 2015)

Haha I should fit right in then, I have been called mad many times


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## WelshD (29 May 2015)

RunToEarth said:



			I just would like to know why so many riders seem to have zero common sense when it comes to riding over weight - because all the equations in the world can be countered with common sense when it comes to (not) getting on your horse.
		
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This. absolutely.

If you need to sit down and work out percentages to the last 1% to ease your conscience then you are on dodgy ground

Common sense tells me I am too heavy to ride so I have small ponies and do fun groundwork with them to get my horsey fix


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## Cinnamontoast (29 May 2015)

Mrs B said:



			Dear me ... I AM getting forgetful ... 


Did I mention ragwort yet?
		
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Shh, she'll appear and I'll be told off for mentioning someone whose opinion I don't agree with (cringing at my own grammar!) 

I think you forgot the carrot stick, which must of course be the right colour. 

*Waddles off to ride 6hh Shetland having heard that they're weight carriers*


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## ester (29 May 2015)

WelshD said:



			This. absolutely.

If you need to sit down and work out percentages to the last 1% to ease your conscience then you are on dodgy ground

Common sense tells me I am too heavy to ride so I have small ponies and do fun groundwork with them to get my horsey fix
		
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I think some people are saying that they don't work it out to the nth percentage to ease their conscience instead they just assess the situation they have and they happen to have appropriate shorties that are very capable of carrying them when they aren't miles off the weight of the OP. 

Arthur Badger and Me, you need to shrink your signature please .


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## ester (29 May 2015)

Mrs B said:



			Dare you. Find a way to combine it with cobs, draw reins, NH and barefoot and it's online TNT ... 

If you really want to add fuel, ask what rug you should have put on your horse today 

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barefoot's a bit old school these days Mrs B, they all seem to be civilised threads now!


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## SatansLittleHelper (29 May 2015)

Wow services. ..just sat and read this whole thread and it's blown my brain lol 
I have a sturdy 16.1 Friesian x Warm blood who is 5. I'm just under 6ft tall and 14st 10lb.
I shall be doing some light hacking with him over the summer but wouldn't expect him to do any more than that at my weight. I'm aiming to get to 12 stone, anything lighter and I look a bit ridiculous to be honest. 
Surely it all boils down to common sense?? I would hate to do anything to harm my horse so am proceeding cautiously.


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## MamaPonio (8 June 2015)

Well, for anyone who may be curious as to how this turned out - I've bought a 15hh Haflinger, 10 years old, built like a tank and in good fitness. I have no doubts about him being able to carry me comfortably and neither did his previous owner  I want to go right back to basics and focus on walk/trot initially and hopefully I'll have lost even more weight by the time we include some canter work, I'm sure it wouldn't faze him now but I did feel a bit unbalanced and very much out of practice!


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## MotherOfChickens (8 June 2015)

good for you, Haffies are fab (I have promised myself one one day, just don't tell the OH  )


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## Wagtail (8 June 2015)

MamaPonio said:



			Well, for anyone who may be curious as to how this turned out - I've bought a 15hh Haflinger, 10 years old, built like a tank and in good fitness. I have no doubts about him being able to carry me comfortably and neither did his previous owner  I want to go right back to basics and focus on walk/trot initially and hopefully I'll have lost even more weight by the time we include some canter work, I'm sure it wouldn't faze him now but I did feel a bit unbalanced and very much out of practice!
		
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Excellent! He sounds perfect. I hope you have fun with him.


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## JulesRules (8 June 2015)

We need pictures


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## cattysmith (8 June 2015)

Great choice! Have fun with him.


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## Red-1 (8 June 2015)

Ahhhh, New Horse!!!!!

Good luck, and I am looking forward to pictures!


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## Goldenstar (8 June 2015)

Have fun.


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## Starbuck (8 June 2015)

Oh he sounds ideal. I love Haffies. Have a great time with him.


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## MamaPonio (8 June 2015)

Thanks everyone  He's due to arrive on Friday so I'll get lots of pictures over the weekend!!! I couldn't be happier or more excited


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## Crugeran Celt (10 June 2015)

Oh exciting,  good luck with him he sounds ideal.


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## Cinnamontoast (10 June 2015)

Exciting! Haffies are so gorgeous!


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## MamaPonio (21 June 2015)

I'm absolutely loving him, feel like a beginner again and so unbalanced so I'm relieved I opted for a good solid weight carrier!! Going to book some lessons and get lots of practice in over the summer  thanks for everyone's advice. 

http://s280.photobucket.com/user/mc...Uploads/image_zpscepaywi3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0


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## MamaPonio (21 June 2015)

http://rs280.pbsrc.com/albums/kk173/mcglynn62/Mobile Uploads/image_zpshoog1lsk.jpg~320x480

http://rs280.pbsrc.com/albums/kk173/mcglynn62/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsznbbmenc.jpg~320x480


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## MamaPonio (21 June 2015)

His mane and tail are a work in progress but I think he's super handsome!!


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## MamaPonio (21 June 2015)

http://rs280.pbsrc.com/albums/kk173/mcglynn62/Mobile Uploads/image_zpst4x93t2a.jpg~320x480

Me riding again after 13 years!!


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## Tobiano (21 June 2015)

yay well done!  your horse is lovely - I do love them with that pretty dappled colouring.  best wishes for both of you


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## Regandal (21 June 2015)

He is lovely!!!  Out of interest, what happened to his tail?  And what is his name?!  Looks like a Fudge to me.


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## MamaPonio (21 June 2015)

His official name is Arlon (he's imported) but he's been called Harry for years now. His previous owner bandaged it too tightly after he hurt it in the field and it came off  I'm hoping it will grow out nicely but if not then it's not the end of the world, I only want him for fun anyway.


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## Wagtail (21 June 2015)

He's really lovely but needs to lose around 100kg; I think you might have your work cut out keeping him trim. So pleased you're enjoying him. I think he's perfect for you.


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## SatansLittleHelper (22 June 2015)

He looks super 
You might need to watch his weight as he looks a little tubby but you will be able to get fit together 
Congratulations xxx


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