# Sore feet?



## DarcyMoo (9 October 2019)

Following on from my last post 'Newbie'. So Darcy is a pretty much unbroken 4 year old mare. As she is unbroken, she hasn't had shoes on, only feet trimmed. So when I bring her in for her morning feed/fuss, its quite rocky and uneven from the field to the yard. She is seeming a bit sore and when I pick her feet out she can't wait to get her hoof back on the floor. I don't want to get her shod yet really as she isn't going to be broken in properly for a year yet but I will be taking her out on the road traffic training. If its a better idea to have her shod, I will


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## ester (9 October 2019)

No, it sounds likely her hooves will benefit from some road walking. 

You might want to look at what you are feeding too though.


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## DarcyMoo (9 October 2019)

She is just on a bit of chaff at the moment. Is there anything I could put her on to benefit her hooves? And would hoof oil help? Thanks for your reply! ðŸ˜Š


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## 9tails (9 October 2019)

Hoof oil will not help.  No topical treatment will help, it comes from the diet.  Are you sure she's not being a bit rude and snatchy rather than sore?


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## paddy555 (9 October 2019)

a 4yo should be able to be led over rocky ground with no problems. I would look at the trim to start with. Is too much being taken off?


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## DarcyMoo (9 October 2019)

9tails said:



			Hoof oil will not help.  No topical treatment will help, it comes from the diet.  Are you sure she's not being a bit rude and snatchy rather than sore?
		
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Yes maybe which is why Im not sure which way to handle it. I dont want to chastise her for taking the p**s if she is actually sore!


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## DarcyMoo (9 October 2019)

paddy555 said:



			a 4yo should be able to be led over rocky ground with no problems. I would look at the trim to start with. Is too much being taken off?
		
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The previous owner had it done a week before I had her, so maybe 2 weeks ago she was done. Yes maybe too much taken off


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## ester (9 October 2019)

She might benefit from a non-iron vit/min supplement. 

Pellet wise options are equimins adv. complete and forageplus
powder both the above, pro-hoof from pro-earth, and equivita.

I didn't realise she was quite so new to you, also then that terrain might be a bit new to her and just going over it daily will generate improvements too.


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## DarcyMoo (9 October 2019)

Great thank you ester! X


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## paddy555 (9 October 2019)

DarcyMoo said:



			The previous owner had it done a week before I had her, so maybe 2 weeks ago she was done. Yes maybe too much taken off
		
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Have just read your earlier post and seen the pic of  your 12.2 grey pony. I think you need to look very closely at what is going on here. That sort of pony at 4 should most definitely not be sore on rocks. The terrain may be new to her and just walking from the field to yard should not cause a problem in the normal course of events. However if she has walked over it a lot or it is a long way she may have bruised her feet.

I would start by looking at the frog. Give it a good poke (being careful you don't get kicked) you are looking for signs of fungal infections/thrush. Does it smell? Does she react if you poke the frog around? Thrush can make a horse very sore. If she cannot wait to get her foot back on the floor when picking  it up then it may be painful for her to stand on one foot. To pick her feet up put the standing foot on rubber matting (just a small square), that may make it more comfortable for her. She could be being a bit naughty about picking her feet up but if she is sore I would give her the benefit of the doubt in case it is painful. 


If there is no obvious problem I would also be looking at her grazing.  Are you going towards low grade laminitis? It could be that the trim pushed an already vulnerable pony towards a problem? 
I gather you have had her a week. Did she walk happily over the rocky ground on the first day she came and has become more sore since? If so I would be looking towards the grass. If you think it could be the grass you could get a pretty definite answer by keeping her off grass 24/7 for a few days. If she becomes totally sound you could have an answer. 
Shoeing will not solve this problem or at least it may make her sound as a sticking plaster would on a wound. In her case she needs the cause to be sorted because of the long term effect on her health
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ps I am not sure what chaff you are using. Some chaff's have alfalfa in them (eg alfa A and I think hi fi has) some horses get foot sore on alfalfa.


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## DarcyMoo (9 October 2019)

paddy555 said:



			Have just read your earlier post and seen the pic of  your 12.2 grey pony. I think you need to look very closely at what is going on here. That sort of pony at 4 should most definitely not be sore on rocks. The terrain may be new to her and just walking from the field to yard should not cause a problem in the normal course of events. However if she has walked over it a lot or it is a long way she may have bruised her feet.

I would start by looking at the frog. Give it a good poke (being careful you don't get kicked) you are looking for signs of fungal infections/thrush. Does it smell? Does she react if you poke the frog around? Thrush can make a horse very sore. If she cannot wait to get her foot back on the floor when picking  it up then it may be painful for her to stand on one foot. To pick her feet up put the standing foot on rubber matting (just a small square), that may make it more comfortable for her. She could be being a bit naughty about picking her feet up but if she is sore I would give her the benefit of the doubt in case it is painful.


If there is no obvious problem I would also be looking at her grazing.  Are you going towards low grade laminitis? It could be that the trim pushed an already vulnerable pony towards a problem?
I gather you have had her a week. Did she walk happily over the rocky ground on the first day she came and has become more sore since? If so I would be looking towards the grass. If you think it could be the grass you could get a pretty definite answer by keeping her off grass 24/7 for a few days. If she becomes totally sound you could have an answer.
Shoeing will not solve this problem or at least it may make her sound as a sticking plaster would on a wound. In her case she needs the cause to be sorted because of the long term effect on her health
.
ps I am not sure what chaff you are using. Some chaff's have alfalfa in them (eg alfa A and I think hi fi has) some horses get foot sore on alfalfa.
		
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Many thanks for taking the time to answer. She was like it straight away, maybe not used to the rocky terrain. I will try the things you suggested ðŸ˜Š


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## DarcyMoo (10 October 2019)

paddy555 said:



			Have just read your earlier post and seen the pic of  your 12.2 grey pony. I think you need to look very closely at what is going on here. That sort of pony at 4 should most definitely not be sore on rocks. The terrain may be new to her and just walking from the field to yard should not cause a problem in the normal course of events. However if she has walked over it a lot or it is a long way she may have bruised her feet.

I would start by looking at the frog. Give it a good poke (being careful you don't get kicked) you are looking for signs of fungal infections/thrush. Does it smell? Does she react if you poke the frog around? Thrush can make a horse very sore. If she cannot wait to get her foot back on the floor when picking  it up then it may be painful for her to stand on one foot. To pick her feet up put the standing foot on rubber matting (just a small square), that may make it more comfortable for her. She could be being a bit naughty about picking her feet up but if she is sore I would give her the benefit of the doubt in case it is painful.


If there is no obvious problem I would also be looking at her grazing.  Are you going towards low grade laminitis? It could be that the trim pushed an already vulnerable pony towards a problem?
I gather you have had her a week. Did she walk happily over the rocky ground on the first day she came and has become more sore since? If so I would be looking towards the grass. If you think it could be the grass you could get a pretty definite answer by keeping her off grass 24/7 for a few days. If she becomes totally sound you could have an answer.
Shoeing will not solve this problem or at least it may make her sound as a sticking plaster would on a wound. In her case she needs the cause to be sorted because of the long term effect on her health
.
ps I am not sure what chaff you are using. Some chaff's have alfalfa in them (eg alfa A and I think hi fi has) some horses get foot sore on alfalfa.
		
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So its pretty much confirmed its the beginning of laminitis  x


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## Leo Walker (10 October 2019)

by who?


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## DarcyMoo (10 October 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			by who?
		
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A vetinary nurse. She has a cresty neck and a strong pulse below her fetlock


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## Leo Walker (10 October 2019)

Then you need a vet out to do xrays and give painkillers and a treatment plan. I thought vet nurses werent allowed to diagnose? Either way, laminitis is a vet job


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## paddy555 (10 October 2019)

DarcyMoo said:



			So its pretty much confirmed its the beginning of laminitis  x
		
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I'm sorry to hear that however it is good that you know and are on the ball. Well done. 
I guess you will have got her off the field by now but are you happy with what you are doing or do you need any help? 
Lots of us have had horses with lami and it is not the end of the world as you learn to manage it. It could well be the mild weather and a lot of grass.


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## tallyho! (10 October 2019)

It's the dreaded autumn flush - I muzzle mine spring and autumn. All 3 of mine are bf on all terrain and yes they might stand on a particularly sharp one and say ow but not all the time. Can you track the field or section a bit off or muzzle? You need to feed soaked hay for a while and get a decent vit/min supp try forageplus, equimins or platinum hoof. First you need to flush the system so to speak.. try L94 bytrinity consultants


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## splashgirl45 (10 October 2019)

you really need a vet visit and pain relief rather than asking on here as we cant see the pony...


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## DarcyMoo (11 October 2019)

So she is on box rest. Changed food to Hi Lite, No Bute and nettles. A fellow yard member put her horse on Nettle Tea and has had no Lami in 3 years. Going to keep her in for a few weeks and go from there. Thanks for all your amazing advice!


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## splashgirl45 (11 October 2019)

so has the vet seen her?   you really do need the vet if it is laminitis and not taking advice from people on the yard or on a forum.  you need to establish why she has it and then treat...


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## tallyho! (11 October 2019)

There is a lot of advice and support here if you need it. Many of us have been through lami, it's not a death sentence and you can educate yourself whilst also getting support from the vet or hoof specialist. The vet is not a nutritionist nor a hoof expert but could well help you identify any underlying metabolic cause so make sure you use the expertise as you would any other specialist. Forearmed is forewarned.


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## tiahatti (11 October 2019)

What did the vet say? Hope she is OK.


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## vmac66 (12 October 2019)

My mare had lami last May. Its manageable. I had the vet and the farrier help me with it. You do need to find what's caused it to stop it recurring. I spent ages researching low sugar and starch feeds.
Feeding soaked Hay will help and if pony is overweight cut total feed to 1.5 percent of bodyweight.


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## DarcyMoo (12 October 2019)

Thanks everyone! Good to know its not a death sentence and can be managed ðŸ˜Š


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## Tiddlypom (12 October 2019)

DarcyMoo said:



			Thanks everyone! Good to know its not a death sentence and can be managed ðŸ˜Š
		
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If itâ€™s not treated correctly, and sadly sometimes even if it is, laminitis can indeed be a death sentence as Iâ€™m sure that your vet will tell you.

When did your vet last see her?


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## tallyho! (12 October 2019)

Oh FGS... laminitis is basically a horse that has type 2 diabetes! It needs to eat less.. and work more. Like most people on this planet. It really is NOT fatal!!!! Get in this century. 

OP please do not worry yourself into a hole with the keyboard warriors. Soak some hay, get him off the sweets (aka grass), do research which Iâ€™m sure youâ€™re capable of and let me tell you, it will be fine.


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## splashgirl45 (12 October 2019)

there has been no response to the posts asking if vet has been involved which is what is worrying me, and the OP seems to just be relying on the forum and someone on her yard for the right treatment....if the pony does have laminitis she needs some pain relief(from a vet) and box rest on thick bedding, and soaked hay.....


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## Tiddlypom (12 October 2019)

tallyho, Iâ€™m disappointed in you, I thought that you usually talked some sense.


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## tallyho! (12 October 2019)

How have I not said any truth here? To be fair I wouldnâ€™t have called a vet but thatâ€™s about it.


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## splashgirl45 (12 October 2019)

fair enough tallyho ,you may be much more experienced than the op who is posting on the new owner thread and  has bought an unbroken 4 year old who now may or may not have laminitis but i stand by my advice that the vet should have been called and the pony managed as per vets instructions and it sounds like the vet hasnt been called as the op has not responded to the questions...


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## 9tails (12 October 2019)

tallyho! said:



			Oh FGS... laminitis is basically a horse that has type 2 diabetes! It needs to eat less.. and work more. Like most people on this planet. It really is NOT fatal!!!! Get in this century.

OP please do not worry yourself into a hole with the keyboard warriors. Soak some hay, get him off the sweets (aka grass), do research which Iâ€™m sure youâ€™re capable of and let me tell you, it will be fine.
		
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The pony can't be worked while suffering an attack of laminitis.  If the pony is indeed suffering from laminitis.  This is a new owner whose experience seems limited so advising that the pony needs to be worked may be acted upon immediately.


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## Red-1 (12 October 2019)

Lami always needs the vet IMO. I would want X rays to see what you are dealing with.


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## paddy555 (12 October 2019)

tallyho! said:



			Oh FGS... laminitis is basically a horse that has type 2 diabetes! It needs to eat less.. and work more. Like most people on this planet. It really is NOT fatal!!!! Get in this century.

.
		
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oh shit I wish I had known!!

 I had to have mine PTS with laminitis. He was in such pain he could not be allowed to continue on welfare grounds and the vet was unable to do anything else for him. I did consider working him but as it took him several minutes to move even a couple of feet I just couldn't see how that would have worked. 

Are you telling me I had him PTS unnecessarily? It was in this century BTW.


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## scats (13 October 2019)

tallyho! said:



			Oh FGS... laminitis is basically a horse that has type 2 diabetes! It needs to eat less.. and work more. Like most people on this planet. It really is NOT fatal!!!! Get in this century. 

OP please do not worry yourself into a hole with the keyboard warriors. Soak some hay, get him off the sweets (aka grass), do research which Iâ€™m sure youâ€™re capable of and let me tell you, it will be fine.
		
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EMS is effectively the equivalent of Type 2 diabetes, laminitis is not.  EMS can be cured by working more and eating less, yes, which in turn will reduce the risk of laminitis.
I do think itâ€™s important to remember that laminitis can be caused by anything that causes a toxic response in the horses blood stream.


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## tallyho! (13 October 2019)

paddy555 said:



			oh shit I wish I had known!!

I had to have mine PTS with laminitis. He was in such pain he could not be allowed to continue on welfare grounds and the vet was unable to do anything else for him. I did consider working him but as it took him several minutes to move even a couple of feet I just couldn't see how that would have worked.

Are you telling me I had him PTS unnecessarily? It was in this century BTW.
		
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Iâ€™m sorry for your loss ðŸ˜¢. Iâ€™m sorry I posted my post. Im ashamed I posted such flippant thoughtless drivel.


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## paddy555 (13 October 2019)

tallyho! said:



			Iâ€™m sorry for your loss ðŸ˜¢. Iâ€™m sorry I posted my post. Im ashamed I posted such flippant thoughtless drivel.
		
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now you make me feel bad.


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## tallyho! (14 October 2019)

Not as bad as I feel paddy! Honestly sometimes I despair at myself.

I do get a bit cross when it comes to lami and vets I'm afraid. I personally don't think they are much help - but that's me! Not many people share my views and I'd do well to remember that and shut my errr... keyboard gob!!


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## Tiddlypom (14 October 2019)

tallyho!, you were very helpful when I asked you about going barefoot and which podiatrist qualification to look for. The podiatrist I ended up using after following your recommendations has done wonders for my horsesâ€™ feet .


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## Smogul (15 October 2019)

scats said:



			EMS is effectively the equivalent of Type 2 diabetes, laminitis is not.  EMS can be cured by working more and eating less, yes, which in turn will reduce the risk of laminitis.
I do think itâ€™s important to remember that laminitis can be caused by anything that causes a toxic response in the horses blood stream.
		
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Yes, my Shetland also had to be put down. Management was correct, she had been very fit and the right weight but on top of horrendous sweet itch and a pelvic problem, our experienced vet felt stress was a major factor in triggering the laminitis.


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## Leo Walker (15 October 2019)

I lost my boy as well. 6yr old no EMS, no underlying metabolic conditions that could be found. He was in the most work of his life, good weight, fed and managed as a lami risk. He still got it. He still died from it.

Vets don't annoy me as much as owners not taking it seriously. Only 30% of horses recover once the pedal bone starts sinking. That means 70% die. 

A bout of low grade lammi like this is a chance to stop it in its tracks. But that involves xrays, sympathetic trimming to those xrays and management changes. Not diagnosis by a vet nurse and nettle flaming tea!

And just for the record, my dead horse had all sorts of herbs, one of which was nettle. Didn't do anything for him.


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## ycbm (15 October 2019)

tallyho! said:



			Not as bad as I feel paddy! Honestly sometimes I despair at myself.

I do get a bit cross when it comes to lami and vets I'm afraid. I personally don't think they are much help - but that's me! Not many people share my views and I'd do well to remember that and shut my errr... keyboard gob!!
		
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You were correct in the essence of what you said even if the way you said it wasn't brilliant TH. (Been there!) The vast majority of laminitis is caught very early by knowledgeable owners or advisors like farriers and yard owners, and in this case a vet nurse. They don't get X rayed, they just get taken off the grass for a while, and nobody hears about them. In forty years I've had three of my own and seen at least a dozen others with friends and neighbours and none of them had vet visits. One of those was a friend's pony who was extremely sore, the parents were away and the daughter asked for my help. I phoned the vet and he said Bute for four days, deep bed, off grass, call back if it doesn't improve. Did not even want to come out, still less X ray. I see two ponies in different areas which stand with both front feet propped forward and huge crests each summer, are fine in winter and repeat the cycle again every year. (their owners need a good talking to!).

It's only a small proportion of cases that are emergencies and still fewer which go on to a life threatening pedal bone rotation. It must be absolutely terrible if you've lost a horse to it, particularly as ignorant people will assume it was a management issue. Cushing's and stress related laminitis are desperately difficult to manage and I feel for anyone who struggles with that or has lost a horse to it.

I think the majority of experienced horse owners would do what the OP has been told to do with a fat pony which is sore on stones; get it off the grass and onto a diet.

DM if the pony is not already more comfortable, you do need to call a vet.


.


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## splashgirl45 (15 October 2019)

ycbm  i understand where you and th are coming from but this is a new owner with a 4 year old and while we alli have been around horses for many years the OP has not so i still feel that it would be prudent to have a vet ,  where is the pain relief coming from or is there none?


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## ycbm (15 October 2019)

DM did say the pony is on Nobute, which is a devil's claw/MSM preparation which has been scientifically proved to be effective and is banned from competition horses. She is also not a novice on her own, she is getting advice from a more experienced person who has taught her about digital pulses.   It's not certain  the pony actually needs pain relief. My loaner let my mini get laminitis this spring and she was never given pain relief as she improved rapidly once off the grass.

DM I would repeat my advice that if your pony is not already looking improved, you need a vet. It's never wrong to get a vet, especially if you are an inexperienced owner.


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