# Any alternatives for giving steroids for COPD



## annew (22 December 2017)

My New Forest developed COPD last springtime but responded to a weeks course of steroids and ventopulmin from the vet. We bought a steamer and have been steaming his hay ever since. 

In September this year it came back -  he began coughing and had flared nostrils, a small clear discharge and was 'heaving' badly. The vet came out and prescribed steroids and ventopulmin again but although it stopped the cough, flared nostrils and nasal discharge, every time I reduce the steroids his breathing suffers and  the heaving worsens although not anything like it was in September. He has had several tubs of steroids now and has been on them constantly since September. He has had a course of antibiotics as a precaution but they had no effect. 

He is a nervous pony and because I have never worked him due to me having a  chronically bad shoulder he does not co-operate with the vet and unable to consider a nebuliser.

Has anyone similar experience? Is there anything I could give him in the way of supplements which would help. He is becoming very difficult to handle due to the steroids which is making him jumpy - as steroids do - and he is constantly hungry so is very 'pushy' when I go near him.


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## GirlFriday (22 December 2017)

Is there any possibility of moving him somewhere he can live out?

This sounds like a management headache you can do without.


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## YorksG (22 December 2017)

My older Appy was similar this summer, a few tubs of steroids and not getting so that she could off them. I had her stim tested for cushings, about six weeks/two months ago and she was prescribd one prescend a day, this has been put up to one and a half ten days ago and her breathing problems went as soon as the prescend kicked in. It would be worth the cost of the test, if it means that you aren't paying for the steroids. Our vet didn't expect the breathing to be affected by the prescend, but it has made a huge difference.


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## hellybelly6 (22 December 2017)

Inhalers?


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## ester (22 December 2017)

ditto inhalers if he will tolerate a spacer over a nostril?
are you using a proper steamer
what are his living conditions? I ask partly because a user on here had dreadful trouble with her welshie some time after moving him to a specific farm, I'm trying to remember what it was that had set him off but I would certainly consider a move, even if temporary to see if a change in environment helps.


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## annew (23 December 2017)

He is living out although he has a stable to go in if he wants to. He rarely goes in it.


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## annew (23 December 2017)

He is living out - he has a stable to go in but rarely goes in there. 

He wouldn't accept inhalers unfortunately as he is quite nervous. I know that a nebuliser could help but there's no chance of him accepting that. I have to put wormers in his food due to this.

I bought a Haygain steamer - mega expensive but it does a good job.

I will mention to my vet about testing for Cushings - anything is worth trying as I'm so afraid for his long term health by continuing to use steroids. 

Thank you so much for your responses - when something like this happens it makes you feel so alone at times.


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## GoldenWillow (23 December 2017)

Can you switch to haylage as there will still be somes spores around even with soaking hay. My pony was diagnosed with COPD this Spring, his is pollen triggered and he tolerates the flexineb nebuliser well generally. I think there is somewhere where you can hire or trial one to see if they will tolerate it. I've tried many supplements and have not found any of them make a noticeable difference once it gets bad enough for continued steroids, although both my experiences with COPD have been with pollen triggers. The steroids for the nebuliser are considerably cheaper than both oral and the inhaler ones which helps, and you don't have the risks associated with oral steroids. We both found the nebuliser much easier to use than an inhaler. Has he been scoped and/or had a BAL?


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## annew (23 December 2017)

I could try haylage - he and his companion are eating almost a bale a day of hay due to his increased appetite with the steroids. It would usually increase his weight but it hasn't which on one hand is good but on the other hand is odd. I have had him since 5 months of age and he's now almost 9 years old. It's strange that he's just started getting this - especially as he's still in the same place. We have a smallholding and they both have two small fields which we alternate every 6 months. 

I wish he would be able to tolerate a nebuliser but he's even more edgy since being on the steroids and is irritable with it now. The farrier came a few days ago and normally he will stand for him but we had a terrible time getting him to stand still long enough. He really isn't the same pony as he was a few months ago. So upsetting.


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## ester (23 December 2017)

I would still consider a trial of a different field for a bit if you can. A friend has no idea what sets her cobs off but he was better when he was moved elsewhere.


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## annew (23 December 2017)

The problem here is that we own our fields and finding somewhere else nearby would be virtually impossible as we constantly get people knocking on our door asking if we have grazing available as they cannot find any in the area. I won't discount this theory though and will ask around.


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## JillA (23 December 2017)

Bronchodilators like Ventipulmin - or are they steroid based?


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## ester (23 December 2017)

Ah tricky, yes friend owns hers too, essentially he went to another friends for the experiment. 
JillA I read it that he was on ventipulmin?
Haylage may be worth a try, also if this is a problem that isn't going to go away would it help to get an experienced trainer out to help him with the concept of the alternative treatments rather than avoid them?


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## YorksG (23 December 2017)

The Appy had a massive behaviour change too, clingy and unhappy. Unfortuntely we also lost her best friend about a month ago, which has obviously upset her. She is in the same field as our other two, but seperated by an electric fence and screaming at the cob is her latest hobby! She won't stay in or out on her own, which used to be routine for her. The increased prescend does seem to be having an impact on reducing her anxiety.


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## Pearlsasinger (23 December 2017)

A friend recommended Global Herbs Pollinex/Dustex for COPD horses, hers had responded really well.  Unfortunately ours wouldn't eat it!  Even the tiniest bit to try to get her used to the taste meant that her entire meal was left in disgust.


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## honetpot (23 December 2017)

I would want to know why he got the COPD. The steroids are supressing his immune system and that is why he improves so it sounds like its caused by an allergy, a bit like an asthmatic.
   I would look at his environment. Go back to basics soaked hay/haylage and nothing else. Try anti histamines and look at anything you use that he could inhale or that is in local fields or gardens. He may be better in an open field.
  I have a pony that I sold at four, I bought him back and he is now 10. He has developed that most awful breathing, so he is out all the time. He is so bad he can not come into an open barn, he will start to cough straight away and his lungs are stiff with fibrosis so he has it for a while. I have warned my neighbours he will be out all winter and that's for his own good, but he will look a bit sad in a flat open field.


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## annew (23 December 2017)

That is a good idea ester regarding getting someone in to train him to accept something like a nebuliser. I will do that - hopefully I can find someone who will take his stroppy attitude into their stride. He never used to be like that. The vet did wonder if he has a sensitive immune system as when he was about 10 months old he developed recurrent uveitis and we had to take to the animal health hospital in Newmarket to have Cyclosporine implants put in both eyes. 

He doesn't cough at all at the moment - stopped that after only a few days on the steroids. The Haygain steamer does an excellent job of steaming hay and is supposed to kill all the spores - but then they would say that I suppose. It was almost £1000! 

He is in an open field although there are trees around the edge - which I'm guessing would make it not an open field?  I will try closing the stable door so he can't go in at all but I doubt that the stable would have much effect as he rarely goes in there. I could also try the Global herbs Pollinex/dustex as he would probably eat it at the moment - he just wants to eat all the time and gets in a strop if I don't give him anything.


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## ester (23 December 2017)

Fwiw I do know someone who couldn't even tie theirs up in the field shelter to wash off or anything, so definitely close the stable for a bit too. 
Winergy ventilate seems to get mentioned in posts a lot but it isn't something I have ever needed to look into for myself.


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## Charlie31 (23 December 2017)

Hello, I just thought I&#8217;d share my experience with inhalers with you saying you don&#8217;t think your horse would tolerate them. The first day he was trembling in the corner of his stable and flung his head up every time I tried to squirt the drug in but after about a week I could administer the inhaler in the middle of the field with no head collar on and he just stood there quietly. My lad is very sensitive but it&#8217;s amazing what they&#8217;ll get used to so I definitely think it&#8217;s worth your while giving either the inhalers or the nebuliser a go, depending on which you think he&#8217;d take to the best.

Mine was also on oral steroids for a while and they didn&#8217;t help with his symptoms at all but he definitely wasn&#8217;t a happy chap while he was on them. The inhalers helped within a couple of days and they don&#8217;t seem to have the side effects of the oral drugs as it all goes directly into their lungs.

I see Ester mentioned Ventilate. I use it and rate it but I think if you can I&#8217;d try and get on top of it with the inhalers first and then think about supplements afterwards. None of the respiratory supplements are cheap either, which is annoying.

I hope this helps and really hope you manage to get on top of it. Respiratory problems are really miserable and it&#8217;s so difficult when you don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s causing it and how you can help for the best. In my horse&#8217;s case it was a lingering problem that wouldn&#8217;t go away but we seem to be on top of it now so hopefully you can crack it too.


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## annew (23 December 2017)

Thankyou Charlie31 and everyone else. I will ask the vet about an inhaler after Christmas and give it a go and I'm definitely going to see if I an find a good trainer to help me get Merlin to a stage when he will accept intervention. The main problem with handling him is my painful shoulder as I'm afraid of setting it off again if he pulls away suddenly. If someone can help me get him to a stage when he's more willing to accept any intervention it would be great.


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## YasandCrystal (24 December 2017)

My 8 yr old mare started with breathing problems this spring and the vet said it was an allergic reaction (she lives out) to probably some pollen. She was treated with steroids via injection and powders. This cleared it but it returned a couple of times and I treated her with ventapulmin.
She started again this time coughing and wheezing a few weeks ago so I tried ventapulmin and shiatsu and breathing herbs bought from my local herbalist which is is now getting daily. I also bought No Wheeze and a respiratory lick for her. I was steaming her hay with a couple of drops of tea tree and peppermint. 
We had very little improvement. I did buy a nebuliser and some Balsamic Air and F10 solution to use in it but never needed to, because I gave her 5 piriton tablets and she was fine within a couple of days. Quite an unbelievable change.  My mare is stressy so I have had a little practice putting the nebuliser nose bag on her and will continue to do this in preparation of perhaps needing it one day. She won't tolerate an inhaler via a spacer she just throws her head.
It's very odd but other horse professionals tod me that there have been a huge amount of cases of horses with breathing problems this year who have no history.


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## annew (24 December 2017)

That's interesting you say that about the increase YasandCrystal as my vet told me last year when Merlin had a short bout of this that last year they had a huge increase in horses with breathing problems. This year she said there was even more and as you say - first timers. I thought it was because I live in Oxfordshire and we are land-locked ( in the centre of the country so furthest away fro the coast) an therefore the air could be polluted. I tend to think he won't let me use an inhaler as the woosh of steroid will make him go mental. I'm still going to try it - and a nebuliser- and see if I can desensitise him. He doesn't just pull his head up though now, since being on steroids he has become so stroppy he swings his back end round. I need to find a trainer in my area that is good and will help me get him to accept things. Interesting too about antihistamines - honetpot kindly mentioned that - I will ask the vet about it.


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## PapaverFollis (24 December 2017)

I've had good results from NAF Respirator Boost a couple of times. Probably just one of those coincidence, regression to the norm things but cheap enough to be worth a try.


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## annew (24 December 2017)

Anything's worth a try as a tub of steroids is about £150! He's on his fourth now and 3rd tub of ventipulmin.


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## GoldenWillow (30 December 2017)

Had a couple of thoughts and hope they might help a bit. Don't blame yourself for where you are, I'm right on the coast, no arable especially rape anywhere near and he started with it very mildly last year and this year has been a lot worse. Interestingly other than May, June his worst month was September and our vet also said it's been a bad year for allergies, for dogs as well as horses.                                                                               

The nebuliser is silent so you don't get the noise of the puff of the inhaler, which does tend to make them understandably jerk their heads away. Cost wise it costs me £51 for steroids and £10 for saline solution and distilled water a month, that's on a medium dose of steroids. 

Have you had a scope or a BAL done, that's how we got a firm diagnosis as at the start it didn't present as typical COPD.

Good luck and hope you can find a solution.


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