# Selle Francais Stallions in England...



## vallin (18 April 2010)

So at the moment this is a bit hypothetical, but I figure if I start my research now if I can put my mare into foal as I plan in 1 1/2 years time I might be at least half way prepared! 
So my mare is a registered pure Selle Francais A and I would like the foal to also be SF, but my research is throwing up very few SF Stallions at stud in Enlgand, not highly suprising I know! In an idea world I would like something around the 17h region, generally fairly relaxed, but with an interested and intelligent eye, good confo, especially the back and hind legs as these are my mares weakest areas. Will be aimed at eventing. This is the mare...any suggestions welcome! (as I say atm this is all fairly hypothetical!)


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## GinnieRedwings (18 April 2010)

I like this one very much and the stud terms are quite good:

http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Future_Desir.htm

Of course, you could still have semen imported from France or anywhere else for that matter. It's incredibly easy these days and most studs don't do natural coverings anyway, so you might as well widen your horizons - no reason to be limited to the stallion down the road!


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## mellissa (18 April 2010)

GinnieRedwings said:



			I like this one very much and the stud terms are quite good:

http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Future_Desir.htm

Of course, you could still have semen imported from France or anywhere else for that matter. It's incredibly easy these days and most studs don't do natural coverings anyway, so you might as well widen your horizons - no reason to be limited to the stallion down the road!
		
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Oh yes, desir has beautiful blood, and very good terms. selle horses are my favourite, but they are showjumpers in my mind. However, they are so versatile they are making brilliant eventers. I think for top level eventing you need lots of tb blood though, so if thats what you want why not use a tb that jumps well such as french buffet?

I shouldnt say it but using a wonderful sj stallion that was selle such as desir or necker platiere, would breed you something lovely!!!


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## vallin (18 April 2010)

Oooo. he looks nice  Though there's a little bit too much TB in him for my likeing. I would prefer to keep the SF as I love their temprement and they're so versatile that even though they are bred for SJ they can turn their hoof to anything  iyswim! lol


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## fred99 (18 April 2010)

Definitely look at our stallion Valesco

http://pelionstud.co.uk/stallions/valesco

He has 87 off spring in the UK working in all disciplines.  He has a fantastic laid back temperament.  He is 23 and we still take him to stallion shows!


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## eventrider23 (18 April 2010)

Not pure SF but certainly flashily bred enough, being by Diamant de Semilly, I woudl have to suggest Don VHP Z.  He is a big framed horse at 17.1 bit with paces to die for and a canter you could sit to for ages!!  Def one you shoudl think about:
http://www.brendonpyecombe.co.uk/brendonstud/Don.asp
and a You Tube video of him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHVWrXGGjVc


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## vallin (18 April 2010)

Valesco is stunning, are there any confo shots of him?
If Don VHP Z was pure SF I'd go for him in a shot, but for some reason I'm very set on have a pure SF-who knows! lol


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## amjo (18 April 2010)

vallin said:



			So at the moment this is a bit hypothetical, but I figure if I start my research now if I can put my mare into foal as I plan in 1 1/2 years time I might be at least half way prepared! 
So my mare is a registered pure Selle Francais A and I would like the foal to also be SF, but my research is throwing up very few SF Stallions at stud in Enlgand, not highly suprising I know! In an idea world I would like something around the 17h region, generally fairly relaxed, but with an interested and intelligent eye, good confo, especially the back and hind legs as these are my mares weakest areas. Will be aimed at eventing. This is the mare...any suggestions welcome! (as I say atm this is all fairly hypothetical!) 






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I suggest Necker Platiere at New Priory Stud, Wiltshire, www.newpriorystud.com


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## fred99 (18 April 2010)

vallin said:



			Valesco is stunning, are there any confo shots of him?
		
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Here's a confo shot of Val... glad you like him, he'd be flattered that you called him stunning


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## vallin (19 April 2010)

I love the fact that whatever level the SF horses are working at they appear to still manage to maintain that barrel bellly, glad it's not just my mare!! lol
I like NECKER PLATIERE...a lot...but he's go the very charachteristic long weak back end of SF, which I know is perfect for SJ and that is what they're bred for, but it just makes them so damn injury prone! Grrr!


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## harrietltb (19 April 2010)

eventrider23, do you work for Brendon stud or something?  You were seen at the Hartpury parade wearing their jacket and handling the stallions, so what's your connection, because you recommend their stallions for just about every mare looking for a stallion, regardless of suitability.


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## kibob (19 April 2010)

fred99 said:



			Here's a confo shot of Val... glad you like him, he'd be flattered that you called him stunning 






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Aww, lovely to see Valesco.  I knew him when he was standing at Tall Trees.  I've got a mare by him and can vouch for the laid back temprement.  She's got a great, easy to do attitude,,, she's also got spotty socks - now I can see they came from Dads' side


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## vallin (19 April 2010)

Any opinions on these stallions welcome...

http://www.bridgehousestudireland.com/dow_jones_courcel.html

http://www.bridgehousestudireland.com/riverland.html

http://www.frenchstallions.org/stallions/flipper-delle/2007008.html

http://www.rocksfarmstud.co.uk/3.html


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## vallin (19 April 2010)

kibob said:



			Aww, lovely to see Valesco.  I knew him when he was standing at Tall Trees.  I've got a mare by him and can vouch for the laid back temprement.  She's got a great, easy to do attitude,,, she's also got spotty socks - now I can see they came from Dads' side

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Always good the hear positive things about the progeny  My mares white sock is also spotty...i think it must be another of those odd SF traits! lol


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## eventrider23 (19 April 2010)

Harrietlb or shall I just be straight and call you Ken or a friend of Ken.  I do NOT work or Brendons and never have.  I am very very good friends with them and have used their stallions in the past and likely will in the future....  At Hartpury, they were short staffed and as I was going anyway, I offered to help out as they had 5 stallions to present and with many more horses left at home, they could only spare a few people to come on the day...hence i was there, wearing their jacket...helping with the stallions.  Is there something wrong with helping out a friend?  The reason I clearly know this is you here or someone connected with you is the fact that you have met me and know who I am and on walking past you at Hartpury, distinctly heard you say something to the extent of....that explains everything...when you saw I was in a Brendon jacket.  Get you facts stright first though as I do not work there and never have....just help out my friends when they need it as indeed I also ded when I presented my 2 yr old by El Thuder at their recent Open Day!

If you look at my posts yes I have indeed recommended many of the Brendons stallions, because they have a quite a wide variety, and seeing as you yourself represent Diamant de Semilly I would have thought you would be pleased to see how well their son of his is doing and in the case of this post, recommended him as he is 1/2 SF.  I have also in the past recommended stallions other than the Brendons boys if you actually look at my other posts.  To my recent recollection I have suggested both of Groomsbridges stallions...May 1 and the new boy. I have also suggested the likes of Weston Justice, Chilli Morning, Cristobal and many others where I have thought the mare has suited the stallion.

No not all stallions suit the same mares, and yet somehow, in your case, Graf and your own stallions suit seemingly every mare as regardless, if someone ask for an event sire...they get recommended Graf!  I do not see you demanding to know if Simsar works for the Funnells and yet she regularly recommends their stallions as well as Primo Pageant and Billy Be Cool to people....as a) stallions are owned by friends and b) she genuinely rates them!  It is exacly the same for me.....regardless of whether I were friends with the guys at Brendons or not....I would STILL recommend their stallions...they are all undeniably worthy in their own right, one cannot take away the achievemnts of Warrior and Unbelievable Darco...both of whom have, I believe, had requests to be exported to Europe and been refused as hey want them to remain in Britain and further British Breeding! In addition their young stallions, one of whom I have used, are awesome.....I will always expound the qualities of the one i used especially (El Thuder) as both my own foals by him have been awesome...and all of the others I have seen by him are the same!

Looking through your own posts, the only stallions you 'deam' worthy enoughto be used are you own.....Graf and Kannan...and those represented by yourself, aka Jaguar Mail, etc.  So how is this any different from other people recommending stallions...except in mine and many other cases....we have no monetary gain from our recommendations.....we just genuinely like the stallions and recommend them!  Even had I never used a Brendon Stallion, I woudl still recommend them to people...you only have to look at the results they are starting to produce to see why they are good stallions!  Homebred stallions and progeny are consistently out winning from BN up to age classes.  Stallions and horses they have sold have gone on to great things....only have to look at Scott Brash and Sebastian winning at the British Open last week along with his other Brendon bought champ...Sauron ML!  Incidentally, Sebastian's first crop are now out winning Newcomers and Foxhunter too....so undeniable results!!!

So 'Harrietlb' why don't you, instead of constantly slating other British stallions and studs, instead do what you claim you are TRYING to do and PROMOTE British Breeding?  As I am afraid, all you are doing at the moment is putting it into a derogatory light!  Looking at your own posts, if you are not you are not promoting your own stallions, regardless of the mare, then you spend your time on here sowing discord and denegrating other British Stallions....many of whom have earnt their rights to be called such!!!!

For instance...your recent posts slate:

*Weston Justice* - an Advanced horse in his own right, whose record is far better than many stallions - he retired to stud late and so progeny only just appearing on scene....AND the fact that people such as yourself spend time denegrating genuinely british successes such as him in preference of European ones, means that yes, he might not end up with the quality of mares he should have but those I have seen have been lovely.

*King of the Hill* - again an advanced stallion.   Personally not my cup of tea but still a nice boy.....the fact that he is only just turning 11 and has competed since a 4/5 yr old means that there are likely NOT that many of his offspring out competing yet...give the horse a chance!!!!

*Set Adrift* - a stallion, that, I believe stood in Europe for a couple of years.  A very nice looking stallion who I believe has been used on showing mares a lot!

*Primo Pageant* - If you can't ind any progeny then you haven't looked hard enough!  On a quick search on BE I have already come up with a now deceased son, Royal Pageant, who was a 3 star eventer with an old friend of mine!  He has also sired, from VERY limited crops in Ireland, a Grade A SJer as well as a winner of the HOYS Supreme Hunter Champs.  From LIMITED crops....this is hardly a stallion to sniff at!

You also have a 'go' at Mark van Nunen for posting on behalf of a firend which could be classified as 'advertising'....pot calling kettle black methinks if you consider that you yourself either only promotoe Graf or Ken stallions or denegrate any others.  Thus, even if you are not Ken...which I am not saying you are....then you are certainly promoting or him....and if you want to complain about myself promoting stallions which I resect and indeed have used as well as do the same to other users...then maybe first you should look at home!  

I am also sending this post to you via PM and if you choose to reply we can continue our conversation off the public forum as that is no such place for these derogatory discussions.


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## seabiscuit (19 April 2010)

harrietltb said:



			eventrider23, do you work for Brendon stud or something?  You were seen at the Hartpury parade wearing their jacket and handling the stallions, so what's your connection, because you recommend their stallions for just about every mare looking for a stallion, regardless of suitability.
		
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Harriet is right, the constantly repetative essays about the wonders of El Thunder and Carentino Glory for pratically every single 'what stallion for this mare post' are now beginning to wear very thin and are becoming very tedious... there are other stallions out there.


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## eventrider23 (19 April 2010)

Seabiscuit - why don't you say the same then to those that expound the qualities of May 1, Primo Pageant, etc etc. who also have many many recommendations on here? Far more than those I myself and others have posted.  If the mare suits and someone asks, it is a posters perogative to recommend a stallion that they think is a suitable eventing sire...as you will note when I have recommended them it has been as event sires.  I could say the same about the constant and tedious posts we have had in the past about the wonders of other stallions....and yet I don't.....although you can always guarantee the same stallions will be recommended.  Nearly every event stallion post will have Graf, Chilli Morning, Wish Upon a Star, One More Tiger and many others suggested as potential sires....so why is it wrong that when others do the same, the above two stallions cannot be mentioned?  Simsar is a person in point who LOVES and rates Primo Pageant...and so will always recommend him as an event sire....I have no problem with that....she rates him as do others.  There are owners on here of One MoreTiger progeny who recommend him.  There are owners of many other progeny of other stallions and when pleased with them....they recommend them.  The same that you say about tediusness could be the same for Graf as the posts about him indeed also become tedious and yet I am not so rude as to say that.  I and others rate those above two stallions....so why is it that it is wrong to recommend them at the same time as other stallions are being suggested??  Huh?

If people ask for suggestions of coloured stallions, you are bound to see countless replies for Sempers Spirit and Goshka Ringo where is the harm in that??

In the case of THIS post....I simply suggested a Diamant de Semilly son...who is a SF and thus relevant to the post.  I STATED that he is only 1/2SF and the OP had the grace to say that whilst he is nice, she wants a pure SF.....so why the suddent attack on me regarding other stallions?


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## harrietltb (19 April 2010)

"as you will note when I have recommended them it has been as event sires" - perhaps in the future when you recommend a stallion you could provide some kind of evidence to suggest the suitability of a particular stallion to be an event sire: grading results, competition results, successful progeny, recognised eventing genetics etc.

In my previous post I merely asked for evidence of successful progeny, and was accused of "having a go" at certain stallions.  I, and others on the forum, only wish to make decisions for breeding based on facts, rather than just emotion or opinion.  

No one is saying that you can't like a certain stallion, but personally I want to see results to recommend it, not just a person's opinion.  Perhaps in future, rather than getting angry and accusing anyone who has a different opinion to you of being Ken Rehill, you could let the owners of the stallions speak for themselves, as I'm sure they have access to the information I am looking for.


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## fred99 (19 April 2010)

.......... - thank you Kibob for your lovely comments about Valesco - I will pass them on to him!  He does have a little bit of a belly but he loves his food and I reckon he's earned the right to be a bit 'podgy'! I would love to see any pictures of his off spring if anyone has any?


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## shirleyno2 (19 April 2010)

Hi all! I own the Brendon Stud stallions and i can categorically state that Eventrider does not work for me! She is a valued mare owner that has seen my stallions many times. Caretino Glory and El-Thuder are both very blood types that excel in showjumping, this coupled with exceptional movement and a brave and trainable temperament can surely make them suitable as eventing sires? Two of the grade A's have BD points too, they could easily have more but showjumping is what we do.
 I only stand stallions with correct conformation and they are competition stallions so they are out there doing "it".  Due to me having several stallions, that are all different, one will often suit a specific mare. 

Harriet! I can certainly speak for mtself, though I am very busy at the moment! My stallions are out competing and winning on a regular basis. Yes their progeny have been succesful too, not only in the futurities, many also under BS, BD and BE rules too. If anyone requires any info please do feel free to ask!


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## harrietltb (19 April 2010)

"this coupled with exceptional movement and a brave and trainable temperament can surely make them suitable as eventing sires?"  

Not really.  That's just opinion and you own them, so what else would you say?  What evidence is there that they are brave?  And exceptional movement?  In who's QUALIFIED opinion?  They move well, but it's not exceptional.  

"Yes their progeny have been succesful too, not only in the futurities, many also under BS, BD and BE rules too"

Again, what do you mean by success?  And how many are many?

This is where all of these "which stallion" threads go so wrong.  There is never any fact to back up the value judgements, the above statement provides no documentary evidence to prove the statement.

I'm just asking the questions, but that is always damned as denigrating.


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## eventrider23 (19 April 2010)

OK Harriet - stats.......if the Brendons guys come one here they will be able to correct anythings that are wrong or indeed elaborate but if I like a stallion (and not just this one) I tend to follow and chart its progress for my own information....as I am sure you could agree is responsible as it shows plenty of research!

El Thuder is a 6 yr old stallion.   Imported to the UK as a 3 yr old, presented at the stud open day approx 3 days after arriving in UK (I believe).  He was, one WEEK after arriviing in UK, presented to the AES for approval and was given Licensed status...the only non ridden stallion awarded Licensed at that grading.  As a 3 yr old he also won a loose jumping comp - cannot remember where - not long afterwards.  I used this stallion on 2 of my mares this year based on what I saw of him.

ALL the 4 yr old horses do not get pushed too big too soon at Brendons and still as a 4 yr old, he did all his BN/Disc dble clears and jumped at Addignton YH Final. He then was turned away, as are all the 4 yr olds, I believe, for a holiday.

5 yr old year and beyond.  He has now jumped all his dble clears Newcomers and moved up to Foxhunter, now (I think) having jumped 2 of his necessary dble clears for 2nd rounds.  He jumped in 5 yr old age classes and was 2nd in the Hickstead 5 yr old champs (to his stablemate) in 2009.  He again qualified for the Addignton YH Champs and I believe may well have won his class except he came too fast into a corner and couldn't ake the turn.  In 2009 he then was selected to jump in Lanaken in the World Breeding Champs for young horses in which he competed in classes of 200+ horses.  I believe he is now aiming at 6 yr old classes.

No - these results are not in eventing....he is not owned by an eventing stud!  However many top eventers have always commented on him and indeed if he were out on the event circuit, he would do well...he has the movement, jump and athleticism to excell as an eventer if that were where he was aimed!  His breeding is highly TB influenced as well as having the movement and jump from the more WB side.  

Progeny wise.  At only rising 6, his eldest progeny is 2, of which there were only a handful from his 3 yr old year.  All of the foals I have seen by him (and I have seen all bar 2) are blood types as whilst he is WB with the argentinus, in there...there is also a large % of TB. ALL have been improvements on their dams...and to very nice mares!  One foal (I cannot find his records now though) from his 1st crop was presented KWPN and approved.  My two were excellent...one out of a WB mare...this colt was presented to Futurity as an eventer as a foal and as a yearling...both times getting 1st Prem and being reserve highest scores.  Both times, the comments from evaluators were that he was the 'ideal modern eventer'.  My other colt by El Thuder, out of a Welsh D mare - so not exactly a blood type mare - was given a 1st prem as a SJ yearling.  He himself is a HUGE refinement on his dam and could easily do JRN's as well if he continues as he is.  This colt has since been sold to a SJ home to be produced as a jumper.

No other progeny of his as yet has been presented to the futurities although I believe there will be quite a few more in 2010.  As his stock are at the oldest only 2, then one can hardly expect them to be other there winning in eventing can you?  They are doing all they can or their ages and I have no doubt, that if the stud were not incrediblybusy in the stud season, then further homebred stock by him would be presented and these woudl achieve similar scores as all are quality event stamps.

I am in no way getting angry at anyone having a different opinion to myself...everyone is entitled to one...however singling me out and demanding to know my connection to the stud is not on!  Owners of stallions on here are very strongly discouraged from publishing information on their stallions on here as they are seen to be 'advertising' and so it is then left to satisfied customers to say what their ptogeny have done as I am sure that if the big studs start coming on here and spouting about XYZ with their stallions then posts will soon be pulled.  

As you say...maybe the stallions should speak for themselves...in which case maybe you should tell all those posters on here who as for stallion recommendations to stop asking as at the end of the day, if the stallions can speak for themselves, then why should people be wondering which stallion's to use?


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## Jamana (19 April 2010)

harrietltb said:



			"this coupled with exceptional movement and a brave and trainable temperament can surely make them suitable as eventing sires?"  

Not really.  That's just opinion and you own them, so what else would you say?  What evidence is there that they are brave?  And exceptional movement?  In who's QUALIFIED opinion?  They move well, but it's not exceptional.  

"Yes their progeny have been succesful too, not only in the futurities, many also under BS, BD and BE rules too"

Again, what do you mean by success?  And how many are many?

This is where all of these "which stallion" threads go so wrong.  There is never any fact to back up the value judgements, the above statement provides no documentary evidence to prove the statement.

I'm just asking the questions, but that is always damned as denigrating.
		
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I am not an Event breeder and I do not know of many of the sires mentioned, however I have followed this thread with interest.

I do not see why HarrietlTB is so set on wanting so much information to be added to post that are suggesting stallions for the OP's.

Surely a brief outline of the stallion, inc what the poster knows about him/his stock is sufficient unless the OP or someone else specifically asks for more info?

If I were to ask for suggestions of potential sires I would only need an outline, then I would go and do some research myself. Any questions further I could then post to ask for more. I do not see why chapter and verse MUST be provided each time.


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## shirleyno2 (19 April 2010)

harrietltb said:



			"this coupled with exceptional movement and a brave and trainable temperament can surely make them suitable as eventing sires?"  

Not really.  That's just opinion and you own them, so what else would you say?  What evidence is there that they are brave?  And exceptional movement?  In who's QUALIFIED opinion?  They move well, but it's not exceptional.  

"Yes their progeny have been succesful too, not only in the futurities, many also under BS, BD and BE rules too"

Again, what do you mean by success?  And how many are many?

This is where all of these "which stallion" threads go so wrong.  There is never any fact to back up the value judgements, the above statement provides no documentary evidence to prove the statement.

I'm just asking the questions, but that is always damned as denigrating.
		
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At the loose jumping competition that El-Thuder won, the KWPN judges, yes flown over from Holland commented in public that he had exceptional movement and a super technique, so much so that they asked if he could keep jumping as he did it "just for fun"! I am also sure Pippa Funnell won't mind me quoting her as she adores him and has asked me many times if she can event him.
Progeny have been awarded first premiums at the BEF futurities, one of Unbelievable Darco's was reserve champion [I think] as a 3 yr old.I do not show myself but I believe the judges are well respected people in the business! 
 There are too many to mention out competing! Under BS rules they are competing upto Foxhunter/1.30m. Electra is by Caretino and she won a International 6 yr old class, there are many more coming through the ranks now. The one out of the Tourmaline Rose must be 3 or 4 this year.....

Harriet, could you tell me something please, are you a mare owner or stallion owner? How many horses have you produced from novices? Also what does the LTB stand for?


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## vallin (19 April 2010)

EXCUSE ME!!!! THIS IS MY POST! IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE PLEASE DO IT OVER PM OR IN A THREAD OF YOUR OWN AS IT IS MAKING IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO RECEIVE ANY INFORMATION THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE OF HELP!
Thank You


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## vallin (19 April 2010)

fred99 said:



			.......... - thank you Kibob for your lovely comments about Valesco - I will pass them on to him!  He does have a little bit of a belly but he loves his food and I reckon he's earned the right to be a bit 'podgy'! I would love to see any pictures of his off spring if anyone has any?
		
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Haha! lol I didn't mean to be critical, sorry! He's lovely and I have no problem with a little belly, it just seems to be one of those SF traits that regardless of how often you work them, and how little you feed them, and how skinny they are elsewhere on their body's SF always have that little barrel shaped chest


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## eventrider23 (19 April 2010)

On a serious note Vallin - what is your budget limit of a SF stallion?


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## vallin (19 April 2010)

Given that it's very hypotheical atm I don't really have one as such, but probably £700ish. But I need to work out roughly how much all the vet stuff is going to cost as well to be sure.


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## eventrider23 (19 April 2010)

Just reading back through your posts Vallin - was about to suggest Necker Platiere!


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## vallin (19 April 2010)

I must say I am leaning toward him, it's just the weak back that's putting me off a bit. I would really like something with a stronger back...chance is a fine thing though given that I'm looking at SFs! lol


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## Lobelia_Overhill (19 April 2010)

There's a nice SF stallion in Ireland Link  they do frozen semen, doesn't say how much they charge tho'.  He's registered as a Belgian Sporthorse, but he is pure SF Pedigree


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