# Fox attack



## harkback (7 June 2010)

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20100606/tuk-baby-twins-badly-hurt-in-fox-attack-dba1618.html


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## RuthnMeg (7 June 2010)

Thats bad. Poor babies. Bloody foxes.


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## Capriole (7 June 2010)

very bad, poor little tykes. ditto bloody foxes, maybe this will be an eye opener to people


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## Hels_Bells (7 June 2010)

It's absolutely terrible, poor little loves and poor parents and family it must be shocking.  I hope the damage is not too serious and they will be on the mend soon.

Maybe this will make people see that foxes aren't just cute pretty little mammals but vicious predators.  This happens to lambs all the time; foxes make a terrible mess of them, it's shocking to see what they are capable of but many people just don't grasp how frequently this happens to livestock in rural areas.  Foxes are a wild animal yet people seem less wary of them than some breeds of domestic dog.  It's tragic what has happened but maybe it will act as a wake up call of some sort.   Having lived in c. London for some years I know that foxes are more populous than rabbits in the city, they are just accepted and get bolder and bolder as people think they are "pretty" and do no harm, if people were more widely aware/accepting of the damage foxes frequently do to livestock and had not let the population in cities swell so much this may not have occurred.


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## Kat (7 June 2010)

Did anyone hear the guy on the today programme talking about this? He was basically saying that he couldn't understand it because foxes wouldn't attack unless provoked, it was a real defence of the poor little fox. He actually went as far as saying maybe it had come into the house for some where warm/dry to sleep and had got into the cot and been frightened when the children started wriggling, couldn't get back out through the bars and attacked out of self defence only. It was all a bit sick to be honest!


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## RuthnMeg (7 June 2010)

I feel for the family very much, hope the little ones make a quick recovery BUT Iam pleased this has happened (bare with me). It gives people a true eye opener on what foxes CAN do, as said before they are not cute and cuddly and they don't need 'protection' and they shouldn't be rescued by RSPCA and put in wild life sanctuaries only to be released - when caught they should be distroyed. Urban foxes are not timid, they will not run away from us - they are brave and getting bolder. Sooner or later we will hear more stories like this, and how very sad that will be. 
If the stupid fox got into the cot (s) for a sleep - it really did need shooting, then again so does the man who said it 'was looking for somewhere to rest'! Yeah right, it was after food - they always are. They are also nocturnal animals and will 'rest' during the day ?!?! - Obviously a tired fox then.


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## itsme123 (7 June 2010)

Ruthnmeg said:



			I feel for the family very much, hope the little ones make a quick recovery BUT Iam pleased this has happened (bare with me). It gives people a true eye opener on what foxes CAN do, as said before they are not cute and cuddly and they don't need 'protection' and they shouldn't be rescued by RSPCA and put in wild life sanctuaries only to be released - when caught they should be distroyed. Urban foxes are not timid, they will not run away from us - they are brave and getting bolder. Sooner or later we will hear more stories like this, and how very sad that will be. 
If the stupid fox got into the cot (s) for a sleep - it really did need shooting, then again so does the man who said it 'was looking for somewhere to rest'! Yeah right, it was after food - they always are. They are also nocturnal animals and will 'rest' during the day ?!?! - Obviously a tired fox then.
		
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So the RSPCA WILL rescue them now? 
I only ask as we had a litter of six baby foxes and the RSPCA refused to come out and suggested the best thing we do was shoot them. In the end a private wildlife sanctuary took them. 
That said, foxes are not the timid creatures people make them out to be. As you said, urban foxes are quite tame and will sneak into houses. 
Had this been a stray dog that ventured into someone's house and bit a child I doubt there would be the 'poor thing' reaction. There would have been uproar and calls for the dog to be PTS. An urban fox is no different, in fact, it's worse.


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## harkback (7 June 2010)

Had it been a stray dog they would probably have the RSPCA and police marksmen out looking for it.  It did not actually say if the fox escaped out of the house.  Did anyone hear any differently on the news?


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## harkback (7 June 2010)

Ignore my last post.  It does now report traps were set, a fox caught and destroyed.


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## DragonSlayer (7 June 2010)

I understand that lot of foxes now are being fed by people in towns and cities, thus making them alot braver than they usually are.

I have the farmer coming out to our field soon to shoot the one we have who is sniffing after my chickens....they are safely in a run, but i'm taking no chances after I let them all out a couple of weekes ago and 5 were killed....

It's a very brazen fox, who just lollops across the field, as if it owns the place....


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## WishfulThinker (7 June 2010)

I remember being confroneted by 2 urban foxes in glasgow a fewyears ago.  They were these skanky manky growling things.......not something I would want to mess with.  They werent big though, and out of the corner of the eye looked not unsimilar to a cat when moving fast.
I've seen the aftermath of fox attacks on lambs - like freddy Kruger - and they dont always kill them, they leave them maimed and in pain. 


Yes, a healthy fox can look pretty, but then so can a healthy rat, tiger, king cobra..........doesnt make them safe!! 


OH has said that if there is ever to be a mass cull of urban foxes to put his name top of the list!


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## Ranyhyn (7 June 2010)

Sorry, sceptic here, there is no concrete evidence (that I have read) that it was a fox.  All I have read is heresay and supposition..

"The fox was BELIEVED to be in the upstairs bedroom"
"after an apparent fox attack"

Now, to me, in North London, its pretty unusual to leave windows/doors open on a Saturday night (hell I wouldn't leave MINE open!) and for the fox to enter one would suppose its ground floor...?? Unless its one of those odd affairs where foxes can enter through second story windows.  

Too many big question marks for my liking.


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## Sleighfarer (7 June 2010)

Kitsune said:



			Sorry, sceptic here, there is no concrete evidence (that I have read) that it was a fox.  All I have read is heresay and supposition..

"The fox was BELIEVED to be in the upstairs bedroom"
"after an apparent fox attack"

Now, to me, in North London, its pretty unusual to leave windows/doors open on a Saturday night (hell I wouldn't leave MINE open!) and for the fox to enter one would suppose its ground floor...?? Unless its one of those odd affairs where foxes can enter through second story windows.  

Too many big question marks for my liking.
		
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The family were in the house at the time, so the back door to the garden would have been open.

The mother found the fox in the bedroom - she says she came face to face with it... (BBC website).


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## Sleighfarer (7 June 2010)

I meant to say the family were *downstairs* in the house at the time, so perfectly reasonable for the door to be open - it was boiling in London on Saturday.


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## Ranyhyn (7 June 2010)

Seafarer said:



			The family were in the house at the time, so the back door to the garden would have been open.

The mother found the fox in the bedroom - she says she came face to face with it... (BBC website).
		
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Oh sorry - I had read it in Yahoo, where it says it was Saturday night, not the daytime/early evening.


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## blackstar (7 June 2010)

There seems to be some speculation now as to whether this really was a fox attack. Regardless, it is a tragedy for the children and parents. Urban foxes are certainly very bold, when I lived in the heart of the west end of Glasgow for a few years I would see a big fox sauntering down our street almost every evening, it would not have approached a human but it was certainly not as wary as a countryside fox would have been.

I like foxes and enjoy seeing them in the same way that I enjoy seeing any wildlife. I am no 'townie' , I have lived in a rural area for most of my life and I am well aware of the trouble they can cause to the owners of livestock but that in itself does not make me hate the fox. It is a wild animal acting on its instincts, it has no moral compass. We deride it because its instincts cause us problems. We praise a dog that is a good ratter, or a barn cat that keeps mice levels down. These animals kill as indiscriminately as the fox does, it is just that their killing benefits us.


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## blackstar (7 June 2010)

To lighten the mood after my oh so serious post...

Just found this in a comment on a piece Terry Nutkins has written in the Guardian.

"Anyone remember an incident on Newsnight about 12 years ago after a similar alleged urban fox attack (this time on family pets)? Paxman, becoming increasingly angry, was interviewing a Nutkins type, who was defending the foxes. Eventually, Paxo blurted out, `That's all very well, but what would you do if a fox was eating your pussy?' Cue dead silence, followed by stifled giggles and guffaws and the rest of the interview carried out with the entire panel trying to stop themselves crying with laughter!"


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## Kat (7 June 2010)

blackstar said:



			Urban foxes are certainly very bold, when I lived in the heart of the west end of Glasgow for a few years I would see a big fox sauntering down our street almost every evening, it would not have approached a human but it was certainly not as wary as a countryside fox would have been.
		
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For an urban fox that is timid, there is one near where my sister lives that does tricks for food. It has been all over the press. This old chap who is wheelchair bound feeds it regularly and it will sit up and beg, catch treats, roll over etc just like a pet dog, eats the food from his hand. 

Trouble is what happens when that fox comes accross a small child eating a chicken sandwich in a garden and tries to take it from its hand......

Not to mention what happens to the fox when the old boy stops feeding it and it has forgotton how to hunt. 

In the USA it is illegal to feed wild animals like deer and ground squirrels for these precise reasons.


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## harkback (7 June 2010)

To those doubters that is was a fox the mother is on record as saying she came face to face with it.  She appears to be an intelligent woman who certainly can tell a fox from a dog.  And residents on the same street interviewed today clain there is a real problem with multiple fox's in the neighbourhood and that they are a real pest in the gardens.  Not frightened of people at all, and will stand their ground when residents try to shoo them off their properties.


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## rangerover (7 June 2010)

People seem to have forgotten that foxes can carry mange, rabies, fleas, ticks etc.


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## lindsayH (7 June 2010)

Given that a fox was no more than a couple of feet from my back door on saturday at 2pm, when both me and my dog were in the garden, I certainly think they'd be capable of an attack like this. They can be incredibly bold and urban foxes are completely unfazed by the scent of people.

I thought the guy on the news that said 'there's a difference between what foxes are and what people would like them to be' was talking a lot of sense.


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## Orangehorse (7 June 2010)

No doubt that it is very unusual, but the RSPCA said that there are virtually no reports of humans being bitten by foxes, which I totally believe. 

That is because if anyone is bitten and go to A&E they say it was a  dog because they don't want a lot of questions about how they got bitten by a fox (because it was in a trap and I was trying to kill it, stupid). I know farmers that have been bitten by a fox in those circumstances but they keep quiet about it.

Horrid for the poor family.  The mother was interviewed on the radio and she said that the fox was looking at her and didn't run away.  I can believe that totally.  Young foxes often stand and stare when they are uncertain.  They haven't learned that there are circumstances when it is best to run away.


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## blackstar (7 June 2010)

harkback said:



			To those doubters that is was a fox the mother is on record as saying she came face to face with it.
		
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I have to admit that I initially thought that this seemed an incredible story. I realise I sound like a terrible cynic but the first thought to occur to me was that a dog had attacked the children and the parents were claiming the fox in order to protect the dog or even to avoid prosecution. That seems just as incredible though. The mother certainly does not come across as a liar when listening to her. Terrible thing to have happened.


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## CharlyPhoto (7 June 2010)

Absolutely in agreement with the general gist of the rest of the posts. Its an absolute tragedy for that poor family and its unfortunate that this is what it takes to prove to all those do gooder anti hunt protesters, and town dwellers with no experience of countryside life, that "fluffy little foxes" are a pest and a danger. Most of us know this having probably seen what foxes can do to farm animals and even your pets. Bring back the hunt and a measure of fox control in urban areas too.
My heart goes out to that family and the children.


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## Doris68 (7 June 2010)

A few years ago, I came back from the supermarket just before lunch and was carrying loads of shopping bags.  As I approached the kitchen door a fox came out and tried to attack my chickens.  I threw my shopping at it and shouted, but it took several seconds to chase it away - it seemed completely unfazed by me.

This was in rural East Anglia BTW.  They are much braver than we think!


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## Luci07 (7 June 2010)

Really sorry for the poor family - you can't blame them, BBC news had said they had their patio doors open (as I often do in the evening). I have had various "discussions" with people who would not believe me that foxes do attack lambs/cats etc (cats was first hand experience).

I disappeared at lunch to get dog food and they had people ringing in to Radio 2 - now one man was ringing in defense of foxes as he "kept 3 as pets" - I can't remember the size of the pen but it was NOT big for 3 animals that roam many miles. And he honestly thought he was giving them a better life, treating them like dogs.


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## CharlyPhoto (7 June 2010)

Luci07: You are right.It is cruel to any animal, particularly a wild born one, to keep it as a pet in a small pen. What are these people thinking? Sadly there is no way you can communicate with a fox and ask it not to tear open your bins or your cat as the case may be (and foxes do NOT get on with cats!), and the solution is not to keep it as you would a domestic pet. I find it funny that people who behave that way think that they are being kind but will protest against hunting or population control as cruel.


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## Ranyhyn (8 June 2010)

I do not think this is any way, shows that hunting should be made legal.

Just means maybe its worth keeping your doors closed if you have young children living in an area thats frequented by wildlife, because Rosie is very right, its not just the attack, its the disease they carry.


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## Ranyhyn (8 June 2010)

repost..repost....repost...


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (8 June 2010)

I'm so sorry for the kids and the parents, but TBH its a miracle sommat like this hasn't happened before as there are so many foxes about, not just in the country but in the towns too.

We country folk have been saying for centuries that the fox is a problem; and the RSPCA and others have been doing their utmost to stop us from dealing with a vicious, cruel, ruthless and disease-ridden predator.

Foxes are horrible; I've seen lambs ripped open by foxes and it isn't a pretty sight - a shame the RSPCA and other bunny-loving animal charities don't show the horribleness of what foxes can do.

So now we're not supposed to hunt foxes with dogs (the most natural way which ensures the survival of the fittest) - and the townies have got foxes coming into their houses and don't know what to do! You can't shoot them in town, and you can't hunt them with hounds, and if you put down poison other things including kids will pick it up, plus dogs and cats.

So the dimwits will trap the foxes live, then release them back into the countryside!!! So then they'll be killing our lambs, chicken, cats and small dogs ....... and we're back to where we started.


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## FairyCakes (8 June 2010)

How horrific for the family
I live in an urban area, and I can't believe the amount of foxes I see wandering around, a lot in daylight
I also came across a video online of a fox attacking a man in the states, it sat there, then ran at his legs biting them. It was making awful snarling noises and only let go after the person beat it off with its shopping.


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## skint1 (8 June 2010)

I've got an acquaintance who is very pro fox hunting. His theory is that although this is most unfortunate and he hopes the children make a full recovery, it might help what he perceives as "townies" to keep a more open mind about the foxhunting debate.


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## Archina (9 June 2010)

I am not going to get into the whole fox hunting debate because that a differant can of worms all together but these are predators so why is everyone shocked? Offcourse they are going to lose there fear of ppl in large citys. They have to deal with us all the time but the foxes where here first so it is us who have to make changes. Any animal that attacks a human should be PTS but when it comes to small dogs, cats, family pets you cant turn around and blame the fox, that is there prey. Its the owners responsibilty to make sure there pets are secure. I personnally have lost quite a few chickens to foxes but i dont turn around and blame them. Offcourse they are going to go for the easy prey. I really do feel for the parents of these poor twin girls and wouldnt wish it on anyone. Heres hoping they make a full recovery.


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## samantha1973 (10 June 2010)

Maybe now all those townies that helped ban hunting might just rethink their views!


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## Tormenta (10 June 2010)

FairyCakes said:



			How horrific for the family
I live in an urban area, and I can't believe the amount of foxes I see wandering around, a lot in daylight
I also came across a video online of a fox attacking a man in the states, it sat there, then ran at his legs biting them. It was making awful snarling noises and only let go after the person beat it off with its shopping.
		
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That fox had rabies.


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## ladyt25 (11 June 2010)

I'm sorry I still don't see it as the fox's 'fault'. We are far to quick to blame an animal for what it is only doing as natural behaviour and oit has adapted to us humans - we have encrouched on it's natural environment and then you get the idiots who encourage them by feeding them in the gardens etc etc etc. The fox does not have any sense of reason, it can't distinguish between ight and wrong and where it should and shouldn't go but it is the HUMANS that are to blame for the fox not remaining scared enough to keep away. it grates on me how our option only ever seems to be "ooh, let's just destroy the animal". Yes they kill chickens and the odd lamb (although we have foxes on our land and woodland and the farmer does not suffer lamb losses. The fox does not think to avoid people's chickens because they are pets it just sees them as an easy meal so of course it will come in and take  them as opposed to hunting for itself.

All in all I believe it is OUR fault if foxes are proving to be a problem - we are supposed to be the 'intelligent species' after all!!!


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## harkback (11 June 2010)

ladyt25 said:



			Yes they kill chickens and the odd lamb (although we have foxes on our land and woodland and the farmer does not suffer lamb losses. The fox does not think to avoid people's chickens because they are pets it just sees them as an easy meal so of course it will come in and take  them as opposed to hunting for itself.

All in all I believe it is OUR fault if foxes are proving to be a problem - we are supposed to be the 'intelligent species' after all!!!
		
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THE ODD LAMB!!!  Please come up to Wales and tell my flock of sheep that, and all our neighbouring farmers.  Oh and while you are at it tell the rare breed turkey farmer who has just lost 24 rare bronze turkey adults to a fox that got into a coop (dug under an electric fence, tore off the wire netting and pulled off the wall panels) and killed or maimed ALL 24 birds and did not even eat one morsel of any of them.  Where have you been hiding your head in the sand all this time?

It is human fault that urban foxes are so darn bold though all those do gooder who see them as a dog and put food out for them because they are "cute".  Well not so cute when they start preying on their nice little kitties, and lap warmer dogs.


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## ilovecobs (11 June 2010)

Sometimes they will kill a few chickens or a lot and not even eat a 1/4 of what they kill.. i know they dont think like that but it wouldnt be as wasteful


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## LuanneCat (12 June 2010)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/10298168.stm

Gosh, if this is the same Fox it is darned cheeky!, caught on a Police officers camera phone staring in the patio doors.

Am hoping the poor girls and their family are recovering well still, such a horrible thing to happen.


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## lifebythedrop (12 June 2010)

I have been hunting for most of my life , and I always saw the fox just as vermin. However this winter during the extreme bad weather, a fox appeared at our back door, and was sharing food with our 5 cats.  My initial reaction was panic (for the cats). The fox has returned every night, and shares the cat food. He will back straight off if one of the cats gets angry. The cats are not in the slighest bit bothered by the fox, and they will share the food.

A few weeks ago he (it is the dog fox, the vixen is sometimes seen but does not approach the house) started carrying off food presumably for the cubs. There are now also 3 cubs appearing every night, again they are very wary of the cats. 

I am not suggesting that this incident did not happen, however the fox behaviour is quite different to what I have now been observing for a few months.


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## Hollycat (13 June 2010)

A woman I know that used to run an animal charity hand raised more than one orphan fox. She said as pets they were somewhere in between a dog and a cat personalitywise and she  preferred a fox as a pet to either dog or cat.  Obviously she didn't go out to get one as a pet - these were orphened fox cubs and no I don't suggest people go out and try to raise them as pets.  I just thought it was interesting re their character.

Dogs are also a real menace in some parts of the world where they are feral.  Any largeish predator can be a real menace to livestock and humans and having lived in London for 10 years I know many urban foxes are exceptionally bold and have little fear of humans.  Some will walk past you down the street as if you were not there.  They also have very good climbing skills re getting through windows.

At the end of the day its one attack. Compared to all the kids injured by dogs, killed on the road, abused by their parents etc it isn't a big deal (though obviously it is for the parents and the children themselves - hopefully they will be ok).  I think foxes are more of a problem in the coutryside where they do a lot of damage as demonstrated in the posts in this thread


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## dorani (13 June 2010)

All carnivores are predators. Whether it be your cat, dog or a fox. I assume this was a young unwordlywise pup . There are alot about at this time of year. Lets not go over the top about this. Surely as  a race we have progressed further than this oldfashioned archaic response . Yes , they will eat your chickens if you  leave them out ,yes they will kill them all as your JR terrier will kill all the rats in a barn..what is praised in one is castigated as evil in another.
My sympathy goes out to the family , but lets not get hysterical! Hand feeding fox cubs and adults does them no favours in the long run.


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## dorani (13 June 2010)

ilovecobs said:



			Sometimes they will kill a few chickens or a lot and not even eat a 1/4 of what they kill.. i know they dont think like that but it wouldnt be as wasteful 

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As do humans! The amount of food waste is making a huge rat problem in towns and cities. Foxes eat rats!

Lets  face it...if hunting was not so popular foxes like wolves, wild boar and bears would have been eradicated  from this country centuries ago.


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