# Photo's of Ellie, reported to the RSPCA



## MrsElle (25 June 2010)

Ok, so I am back from giving Ellie her tea (see, I do feed her ) and thought I would put a couple of pics I took of her on here.

Please bear in mind she is 28 years old, partially sighted and not a good doer anyway.  She has had her teeth done, vet is happy with her given her age and she is on three feeds a day of build up cubes, sugar beet and alpha a oil.  She has ad lib haylege.

I do understand she is thin but what is your honest opinion?  Would you have called the RSPCA out after seeing her (see my last post).


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## LadyRascasse (25 June 2010)

she looks ok, if she was mine i would be slightly concerned (i have a 23 yr old, i know this is slightly younger but he has cushings and i have manage him carefully) 

i have found with my horses that if you feed to much protein (i.e alfa and build up cube) they tend to not be able to digest it properly. i feed my old boy hifi senior and mix with pink powder and he seems to do very well on it. 

good luck with her i know its not easy keeping an oldie and i can understand why people get rid before they get old but i wouldn't have my lad any other way


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## micramadam (25 June 2010)

Please don't take this the wrong way but, Yes, I would report her. That sounds mean I know but if you saw another horse looking like this wouldn't you report it. Think of all the poor horses that have never been reported until it was already too late. IMHO always better to be safe than sorry.


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## blitznbobs (25 June 2010)

I'd be concerned TBH...

I know I sound like an advert for this stuff... but it worked on 2 horses I know including my chappy...

Slobbermash... it puts weight on anything.

Blitz


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## Ranyhyn (25 June 2010)

Well obviously she is poor, but you know that - I can see why she was reported, did I not know horses and the situation, I might report her too.  Its the officers responsibility to check out the facts, not the general publics.

Good luck getting and keeping some weight on her, we have a lovely oldie at our yard, he looks like he's going to die every winter, but comes back beautiful every summer!


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## Brontie (25 June 2010)

I too admit, that if I was a normal Joe Bloggs, member of the public with no horsey knowledge, then yes I would report it.  But as a horsey member, I can't comment on her weight, as I have no idea about weights. But she if very cute!


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## benson21 (25 June 2010)

I feel awful for saying this because I know how much you are doing for her, but yes, I can see why she would of been reported. Unfortunately the passer by person does not know her age, history, vet visits, dental treatment etc, and would look at her on first sight and see a stiff thin horse.  sorry. xx


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## Spudlet (25 June 2010)

In all honesty I think I might well have done, I'd be worried about a horse that looked like that at this time of year. I would certainly have made sure to walk past a few more times at the very least to see how she was doing.

I don't want to overstep the mark, but I do think you need to consider your options very carefully before the winter comes I'm sorry.


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## Doris68 (25 June 2010)

I'm sorry to say that I would be really concerned - I have a 24 yo and she is a total picture of health - probably a bit too fat but she has a shiny coat and is in good order!

I hope that you manage to help improve your mare's condition.


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## ester (25 June 2010)

yes I probably would have reported her if I was just a passer by.


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## misst (25 June 2010)

First of all I know how much you care for her... But ...if I didn't know how old she was and that she was seen by a vet regularly etc then I would be concerned. I have a 26yo mare and oldies can be hard to manage - she has always been a good doer but the last 2 winters she has lost more weight than previously and been slower to put it back. 
Like you we care very much and monitor her carefully. I do think I would worry if your girlie did not pick up a lot between now and the winter - but I have no doubt you are more than aware of that. I think you just need to chalk it up to experience and hope the RSPCA keep a record of what has happened so they do not bother you with this again. I kind of feel they are dammed if they do turn out and dammed if they don't - sadly usually they seem not to.


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## RuthnMeg (25 June 2010)

Sorry but I have to agree micramadam. If Joe Bloggs walks past and sees the horse is thin, then they do have a right to report it. You obviously know your doing everything right, so you don't need to worry.
Why is she lame? I guess its just arthritis, but could she not be on a dose of any medication to ease her symptoms  and make her 'less lame'? 
I too have several oldies, and although their coats are a bit dull, they look well. 
I can understand how fustrating being reported is when you are doing your best, but don't be angry about it. 
Your mare must know she is loved and cared for.


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## MrsElle (25 June 2010)

Thank you for all your replies, sometimes it is hard to look objectively when you see something everyday.

I really don't know what else I can do   I have tried several different feeding regimes over the last year since she was attacked by a dog and lost the weight.  She has ad lib haylege as well as her three feeds a day.  The vet and I had talked about this being her last summer if I can't get the weight on her, I can't let her go into winter in this condition


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## Luci07 (25 June 2010)

What about putting up a notice on your field? something like, Please leave me in peace, I am elderly, cranky and a little bit arthritic. I am also under veterinary care and am doing the best I can!

However, as you have been opened up to this, then maybe you could take some other ideas from other veteran owners for some different ideas. I do feel for you though - my old boy was always a poor doer and was a complete nightmare to try to keep looking decent in winter and it was even worst when he got older. Dr Grass always bailed us out each summer but he had a lot of food poured down his throat just to look OK


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## LauraBR (25 June 2010)

Without the background I would also be concerned. Her feet look long to me too which doesn't help with the overall picture; I think the people who called the RSPCA obviously had her best interests at heart.

Context is everything though so don't take it personally, sounds as though the RSPCA will be more than happy with her care as soon as you get the opportunity to speak with them. 

She looks a very sweet girl.


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## misst (25 June 2010)

(((HUGS))) I know how much she means to you and remember the dog attack incident - Despite my previous post I still think you know what you are doing and I am sure you will do whatever she needs either way. I hope she picks up for you soon x


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## Letslip (25 June 2010)

I can understand why passers by who possibly don't know anything about horses especially those of the elderly variety have reported your horse.  TBH I think after the whole Spindles Farm incident and because it made national news lay people are more observant to this kind of thing more so possibly than before.  

Also as you said in your previous post because she has no muscle especially in her hind quarters it probably looks worse (especially since a lot of people these days are only seeing overweight horses!!!) and also it probably highlighted how thin she was if she was in the field with 2 others that don't have a problem with condition. 

It is difficult keeping weight on these oldies but would say that as long as she is happy, and your vet and farrier are happy with her then so should the RSPCA be, although nice to see them being proactive for a change even though in this case unwarranted.


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## Luci07 (25 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			Thank you for all your replies, sometimes it is hard to look objectively when you see something everyday.

I really don't know what else I can do   I have tried several different feeding regimes over the last year since she was attacked by a dog and lost the weight.  She has ad lib haylege as well as her three feeds a day.  The vet and I had talked about this being her last summer if I can't get the weight on her, I can't let her go into winter in this condition   

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Sorry - posts that crossed in the night!

What about contacting the veteran horse society and see what advice they can give you? they must be the absolute experts in keeping oldies looking good..


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## galaxy (25 June 2010)

I can understand why someone has, sorry.  Obviously your not neglecting her, but someone isn't to know that.

Have you tried Equijewel?  A friend of mine bought an old tbx back at the end of last summer that had been subjected to cruelty and looked horrific.  She was on 3 feeds of Alfa Oil, Baileys Topline and 1 mug of Equijewel 3 times a day and ad lib hay.  I still didn't think she'd last the winter...  She actually had her feed CUT in Feb as she was fat!!  Seriously try it, it's excellent stuff!


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## Spudlet (25 June 2010)

Watching an animal you love age is the poopy end of the stick of animal ownership, it sucks I think everyone on here will understand that.

It sounds like you are doing your level best, but from the pictures and what you say perhaps it really is just that she is coming closer to the end now. I'm really sorry


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## Spit That Out (25 June 2010)

I can understand why someone would have reported her as she does look poor but the trouble is people don't bother to find out the facts before they call people the RSPCA.

As much as it's annoying at least someone is looking out for horses welfare and I'm sure their heart was in the right place.
Without people calling people like the RSPCA there would be allot of cruelty cases unreported with horses and ponies suffering.

At least you know your doing everything you can for your horse and as long as she's happy then that's fine.


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## Vizslak (25 June 2010)

Honestly...she does look pretty poor. If she was in a field near me then yes, I probably would report her  Sorry, I know thats not what you want to hear.


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## RuthnMeg (25 June 2010)

Another vote for Equijewel. It does do a grand job on putting weight and condition onto horses. (Just don't be too shocked at the price!! - its worth it).
Good luck and I admire you for your dedication to her needs.


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## Bettyboo222 (25 June 2010)

I am currently loaning a 39 yr old mare who is thinner that your Ellie, she doesn't have many teeth and she isn't a good doer either, Her owner has been reported to the RSPCA so many times that now they know her and don't bother. They know beauty is healthy and that she is just old


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## Spudlet (25 June 2010)

C&P from the post in sb, re why people don't (and IMO shouldn't) try and speak to owners first in most situations:

Obviously you (as the owner) know you aren't a raging psychopath, but if you (as the observer) see a horse in a state there's no way to know what the owner is like, and it's not worth the risk of approaching them. Look at the way the delightful Grays intimidated all their neighbours and threatened them even outside the court - this is the kind of person you might end up dealing with!


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## splashgirl45 (25 June 2010)

im sorry but i would be very concerned if she  was in a field local to me and would prob report her.  i know you are doing your best and it must be very difficult as you obviously love her.  how about asking world horse welfare for feeding advice, they are the experts with this sort of thing and may come up with a feed regime you hadnt thought of.   i know you said she has haylage adlib but she may not be able to chew it properly and it may just pass through her.........hope you can find a solution...good luck


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## CBFan (25 June 2010)

I think the others have given you fair comment and unless you can get some decent weight on her in the next few months I would seriously not consider letting her go through winter. We had to make the same decision for 'my' old mare who was in a similar (but worse) state due to having cancer and decided to let her go last Autumn - Thank god we did given the winter we had!!

Big hugs. It's really hard when their bodies just give up on them while their brains are still going xxx


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## Ranyhyn (25 June 2010)

I can't really offer any help on feeding, although all my horses have done very well on pink powder to help them get the best from their feed.  She looks like a fairly sizeable mare, and the bigger ones always seem to take it harder than the smaller pony types (forgive me if she is only like 14hh or something now!)

Its clear you love her - so don't think any of us here doubt that.  But just a supportive word, its never too early but sometimes its too late.

Hugs ME x


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## dressedkez (25 June 2010)

Madness - most of these posts......I have seen lots of forum posts with people asking for critiques of their horses, where the condition is as bad if not worse then that one.......What time of year? If coming out of winter, and elderly, then yes likely to be thin. Yes you can count its ribs - as you can all of my horses once they finish a hard season of racing.......I was always told to ignore the ribs and look at the cover on the rump - not looking that bad on your beast.
Can you move this horse away from all the oh ah brigade?
Based on most of these comments - I am guessing that you are making difficult decisons? I expect you have had its teeth checked out? If a field full of grass puts on weight - then let the animal enjoy the summer - think about early feeding programme, good rugs etc, or make that tough decision?
I am really irritated by the majority of posts - you have taken it all in good part, I am surprised, but then it was high risk posting this...
Best wishes


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## The_snoopster (25 June 2010)

My friend had a gelding in the same condition as yours he was 42 years old and a tbx, RSPCA was called out to her and told her that unless he was put to sleep at the end of that summer he would consider taking further action against her.
It was a real sad summer for my friend has she really tried hard to get weight back on him so she could avoid having him PTS, but sadly she could not get him to replace the weight winter had taken away that year.
I agree with the other posters who advise you getting in touch with the veteren society who have lots of experience in the problems you are experiencing with replacing your mares weight.
Good luck


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## misst (25 June 2010)

Why are most of these posts madness???
M.E. is a popular member on here and she has come on to show her horse and get some opinons. M.E. has been posting on here a long time and we all know how much care and attention and love she has given this horse. However just because some of us feel that she does look rather poor and dared to express this - how does this make us mad I do not think we have picked on her at all. I am very  about your reply.

M.E. I hope you don't feel picked on because I really don't believe that is anyones intention who knows you


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## flash1 (25 June 2010)

I have found allen and paige feeds very good for my oldie.
Fast fibre and ride and rellax are good also readi grass as is spillers senior conditionig mix I know its hard when they get old but she should improve at this time of year.
Some of the feed helplines are very good at giving advice. Also the veteran horse society may be able to advise on feed etc.


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## brighteyes (25 June 2010)

*QR*

I'm more likely to have hovered about to see what's what and checked her feet - tidy feet mean someone is taking care - fresh clean water, tidy field etc.

I think you should definitely put a notice up to the effect that she is 28, on three feeds a day, under the vet, farrier and dentist and before anyone calls the RSPCA or WHW, they should call you on (your number) for a reassurance.


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## Crazy Friesian (25 June 2010)

Hey MrsElle. Dont get down about it. Oldies are a nightmare to keep weight on. I have been where you are with your girl. I have a lad who has ALWAYS been a nightmare to keep weight on. I haven't been reported, luckily, but have been "threatened" with it...

They do find it very difficult to digest cereal as they get older. My old lad (27) is on: (Morning) A&P Fast fibre and Top Spec Top Chop (lightly coated oil but no molasses) and Equijewel. Eve - Fibregest (slightly higher oil content), Top Chop and Equijewel. He has adlib hay. (Haylage can also be tougher on the digestive system.)

I was very skeptical about Equijewel but decided to give it a try - partly cos of the cost!. "Unfortunately" I got the quantities wrong per feed and couldn't understand why I was getting thru sooooo much. I then "read the instructions" and halved the quantities!!! He did put on a lot of weight VERY quickly though! LOL The advantage is that it is very high calorie without being heating. Con is not one for food, not picky, just wont eat!!! Especially when his day has been upset by a leaf blowing across the yard!  I have had to reduce his food slightly as he wasn't finishing, but keep the Equijewel in.

Chin up hun, give it a go. You can but do your best. xx


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## MrsElle (25 June 2010)

Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions, as I said, it is sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees when you can't be objective.

I had decided deep down that this would be Ellie's last summer.  It has been so difficult this last year to keep any weight on her, but in herself she is happy.  She trots around after the boys and comes up for a cuddle.  Actually she has changed slightly, she used to pull some magnificent faces but never does now, she is loving, happy and contented.

So sad that my deepest fears have been aired, I am crying now


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## Persephone (25 June 2010)

If I didn't know the background, then yes I would have reported her.

Even a horsey person would look at her and think, she needs three feeds a day and  maybe her teeth done.

You are doing the best you can for her Mrs Elle, which is great, but unfortunately that's not always bery obviousl when our horses become elderly.

I think it was a fair reporting.


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## Persephone (25 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions, as I said, it is sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees when you can't be objective.

I had decided deep down that this would be Ellie's last summer.  It has been so difficult this last year to keep any weight on her, but in herself she is happy.  She trots around after the boys and comes up for a cuddle.  Actually she has changed slightly, she used to pull some magnificent faces but never does now, she is loving, happy and contented.

So sad that my deepest fears have been aired, I am crying now 

Click to expand...

We cross posted!

It's only June. If she is happy in herself and you can get some covering on her then who knows?


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## MrsElle (25 June 2010)

Just to add, I'm not upset or offended by any posts here, I asked for honest opinions, it is what I needed.  Thank you all x


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## dressedkez (25 June 2010)

misst said:



			Why are most of these posts madness???
M.E. is a popular member on here and she has come on to show her horse and get some opinons. M.E. has been posting on here a long time and we all know how much care and attention and love she has given this horse. However just because some of us feel that she does look rather poor and dared to express this - how does this make us mad I do not think we have picked on her at all. I am very  about your reply.

M.E. I hope you don't feel picked on because I really don't believe that is anyones intention who knows you

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Certainly not picking on M.E, quite the opposite - obvioulsy not into the clique who post all the time on this forum and can 2nd guess - ever thought of using Face Book instead - you can all chat to your hearts content then - without any of us, who are not a member of the regular gang, putting our foot in it - or possibly disagreeing?
Logging out now - lost the will!


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## Spudlet (25 June 2010)

Dressedkez, it is nearly July, we are not just coming out of winter. We are well into summer now.

Also, I do not consider that rump well covered, nor do I like to see so much spine on show, and coat condition appears poor.

I am absolutely not picking on the OP who clearly loves her horse dearly, and I hope she can get her sorted, but if she doesn't pick up I don't personally feel another winter would be fair. The horse doesn't even come close to the most emaciated I have seen, but given her age, the stiffness described, and condition despite the feed she gets I feel it must be faced that nothing lasts forever.

ETA I'm sorry ME, hugs from me too. Like I said, this is the poopy end of the stick of owning animals


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## misst (25 June 2010)

So sorry - maybe she will pick up x If not then give her the best summer ever and give yourself some great memories. We may have to put our lad down this autumn if he doesn't become more paddock sound than he is right now
I know how you feel x


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## catembi (25 June 2010)

Oh dear, I was planning on posting some pics & vids of Trev the ex-racer, but now I'm scared to as despite having put on a *lot* of weight & muscle in the 3 months I've had him, you can still easily count his ribs.  Perhaps I'd better PTS before the winter...??

I don't think the horse looks too bad? My old girl is thinner at 37 but she's still full of cheek & spirit, and while she continues to enjoy being alive, I will continue to do my best for her.  I just won't post any incriminating pictures!


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## Spit That Out (25 June 2010)

dressedkez said:



			Madness - most of these posts......I have seen lots of forum posts with people asking for critiques of their horses, where the condition is as bad if not worse then that one.......not looking that bad on your beast.
Can you move this horse away from all the oh ah brigade?
Based on most of these comments - I am guessing that you are making difficult decisons? I expect you have had its teeth checked out? I
I am really irritated by the majority of posts
		
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Most people on this thread have posted honest but fair opinions and nearlly everyone offers support...the fact that you couldn't even be bothered to use the horses name and called it a "Beast" says allot.
People showing they care however misguided is not being part of the "oh, ah brigade".
It has already been mentioned that her teeth had been checked so you couldn't even be bothered to read the OP.


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## Ranyhyn (25 June 2010)

Whoa Dressedkez...?????


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## Spudlet (25 June 2010)

Seeing ribs does not concern me, it is the overall picture given by the pictures and supplementary information.


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## misst (25 June 2010)

Sorry dressedkes but I am not a facebook user
I do not post that often on here but read a lot. I am certainly not a member of any clique, but I feel you jumped in all guns blazing and did not really trouble to "read" the situation. Please don't go - stay - this is a good place and I hope you will see is full of support and useful advice.


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## Crazy Friesian (25 June 2010)

MrsE - I know its expensive, but if you have not tried it, try Con's diet. It really worked for him.  Keep off the cereals and molasses too if you can. All is not lost - Honestly!


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## ester (25 June 2010)

MrsE, moving away from your original question, basically you put those pics up because you do care so much. 

Do be aware that I think people's reactions are different depending on if they are a passer by or if they know a bit more background. 

I don't think she looks that bad..... I would like her looking better of course. 

You know her best and know how she is in herself which is sometimes more important than her outward appearance, it is very hard for us to see the whole picture through a computer screen


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## Groom42 (25 June 2010)

You are obviously doing your best to help your mare, and I do sympathise with your predicament. Bailey's No1 is fantastic for putting weight on, without the "whizz", and it is made into a gruel/porridge so if those elderly teeth are struggling, it may help. Badminton Feeds do something similar. Enjoy those cuddles with your loving,contented horse! xxx


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## guido16 (25 June 2010)

Oldies are always difficult.
spine showing is not so much a lack of weight but overall lack of muscle, which can be expected at that age.
We have had the worst winter in years, now have a lack of grass, I`m not surprised how Elle looks in the photos.

I wouldnt take the fact she (not you) was reported to the RSPCA personally. 

All you can do is maybe phone the veteran society for feeding advice as she should probably be putting a bit more weight on having 3 feeds a day. 

and lastly, enjoy the time with her.


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## jack9 (25 June 2010)

yes i would report her as an outsider passing a field.

but if i knew you no definately not!!!


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## GLEEK (25 June 2010)

Have you tried fast fibre? I love it. It can be fed as a hay replacement or with hay. My mare (not elderly) lost a lot of weight over the very bad winter it put the weight on very quickly. I know its fed to a lot of oldies. When you feed it you soak it in a way like sugar beet so it does double in size so i think you get a lot of food for your money. Also if teeth are starting to go missing its easy for them to eat 

http://www.allenandpage.com/Products/Rest-and-Light-Work/Fast-Fibre.aspx

I dont that you have tried evrything. Horses like to worry you dont they?!!!


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## Ranyhyn (25 June 2010)

catembi said:



			Oh dear, I was planning on posting some pics & vids of Trev the ex-racer, but now I'm scared to as despite having put on a *lot* of weight & muscle in the 3 months I've had him, you can still easily count his ribs.  Perhaps I'd better PTS before the winter...??
		
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A skinny TB is a lot different though, this horse doesn't look like a full blood fit ex racer.  It looks like a skinny horse - and in answer to the OP, I would report it if I didn't know the history and didn't know horses.

The fact that I know horses and the history means that I judge it differently, but I don't think this was the jist of ME's post.


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## Ignition (25 June 2010)

and you were going to post a photo to prove me wrong...? Hm, I don't think you succeeded.


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## MurphysMinder (25 June 2010)

Yes she does look poor and I would possibly report her if I didn't know she was well cared for and loved.  I had an oldie who at 34 started losing condition and struggling with her arthritis (not lame just stiff).  She was an ILPH pony and with guidance from their Field Officer she had a last summer and was pts in the October.  I woudl recommend Rowan Barbary Soft n Soak to try and put some weight on her, I use it for my old donkey who was struggling to eat coarse mixes etc and he loves it and is doing really well.


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## reddie (25 June 2010)

She does look poor and I can understand why someone might report her to the RSCPA if they dd not know you or the situation.  It sounds as though you are trying to your best for her.  Just one thing though how good is your grazing?


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## Fiona (25 June 2010)

My hubby's old TB had very poor teeth (from a lifetime of crib-biting), and for his last 3 ish years he would have maintained very little condition and looked fairly similar to this mare in terms of ribs/cover over his bum etc.

He was still a happy horse though, and we would never have thought of having him PTS (he eventually had to be PTS due to a completely unrelated field injury).  

He gained a little weight during the summer, and lost a little in the winter but was still healthy and this would have been supported by our vet.

Don't panic yet MrsElle - its only June.

Hugs

Fiona


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## pastie2 (25 June 2010)

I concider that the horse is failing, she is old, and the time has come to make the most heart wrenching decision that eventually comes to us all. Please realise that the time has come. Its late june and she will never ever look any better than she does now.


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## lachlanandmarcus (25 June 2010)

Im with Fiona on this, to me she looks like a bigger version of a lot of cared for but very old ponies who live happy lives even tho their owners tear their hair out trying to stuff them with food so they will look as happy as they are and not like a neglect case. 

As she is a bigger model, she looks worse as you dont see so many very old horses as you do ponies as they tend not to make old bones so often. So bony skinny horses are more often welfare cases than bony skinny ponies, and peeps are more likely to report.

Try the other diets, talk to the vet horse soc, think about whether she is still enjoying life, think about the point of skinniness/weight below which you really dont want her to go. Then go with that. Dont worry about whether well meaning strangers in real life or on H&H would report her condition, they are just doing what they should which is to make sure all is ok, noone wants another spindles farm. 

If she doesnt get thinner than she is now, and you get a diet in place that gets more weight on, and she is happy, with cared for teeth hooves and rugs and a loving mum, then there is no reason she shouldnt have more time with you. But you might not want to risk a winter, only you can decide and whenever you decide the time is right will be the right time. 
all best wishes


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## brighteyes (25 June 2010)

Anyone remember Boodle on here?  And the truly heartbreaking decline of her beloved Trixie?  She did everything in her power for Trix (who was slowly fading away) and regularly posted pictures *lots* and asked for advice.  She knew, and we knew, that it was getting close to Trixie's 'time' and had Trixie not made the call herself, Boodle was facing up to her responsibilities as every great horse owner does.

I take my hat off to you for braving the forum's responses. I do not condemn you.  While she is relatively happy, eating and managing the day to day things important to her without too much effort, then let her be.  

I look at it this way - the people who called in on her behalf, were checking to make sure someone was looking after her.  And you are.  So that's OK.  Are horses not allowed retirement and a few years mooching about for fear the 'ribs police' will strike?  She may well be healthier than these lardy creatures waddling about in fields and the showring.  Let's face it - she has got to 28!  I wish you and her a lovely summer.  She'll let you know if and when she's had enough and you will do right by her.  I have no worries on that score.

Chin up x


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## brighteyes (25 June 2010)

pastie2 said:



			I concider that the horse is failing, she is old, and the time has come to make the most heart wrenching decision that eventually comes to us all. Please realise that the time has come. Its late june and she will never ever look any better than she does now.
		
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And you know this for sure - how?  Maybe a tweak to her diet is all that is required.  There is no reason why this can't be attempted.


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## pastie2 (25 June 2010)

brighteyes said:



			And you know this for sure - how?  Maybe a tweak to her diet is all that is required.  There is no reason why this can't be attempted.
		
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I think that it will need more than a tweak TBH! If it was that simple why hasnt the op done it?


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## meandmyself (25 June 2010)

She does look a bit poor. I might have reported her if I'd seen no improvement over a few weeks.

You said she gets sugar beet- how much? I'd soak a big bucket for her and let her munch on it all day. It's a good food for putting weight on. It's mostly fibre, so she can have as much of it as she'll eat without causing problems. You could also add some grass/hay pellets to the soaked mush if you can find them.

Maybe add a small amount of soaked barley to her diet too?


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## atholl (25 June 2010)

Not a chance. 

I see a horse whose coat is good, who is thin but obviously old, and who is clearly eating. I might have watched her for a few days, but no, at first glance, I wouldn't have reported her.

We have a 33-year-old who is thinner than that and whose suspensories are parallel to the ground (the vet just shakes her head at them), but he totters about the field with his old ladies, eats his huge buckets of sloppy feed, gets the dentist,his shots and everything, and is good for at least this summer. 

Every autumn we get the vet to assess him and tell us if we are being cruel by keeping him going, but his attitude is so good that so far, she thinks he should still be with us. 

We were reported to the Humane Society too, and they investigated us and just laughed it off. They have far more serious cases to follow up on. It turned out to be a vindictive ex-boarder in our case.

Good luck with Ellie.


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## cm2581 (25 June 2010)

Poor you and poor Ellie! Many big hugs and polos!

Now whilst she does have fairly significant muscle wastage to her topline, I have seen horses in much poorer condition with less actual body fat. The one thing I do immediately notice is that she has what I would describe as an empty belly. The rear area of her barrel and under her hip bones are sunken in which would indicate that the actual quantity of food bulk in her system is too low (this is regardless of her body condition). You say she has ad lib haylage available but if she is in with your other horses can you actually be sure how much of it she is eating? If haylage is required I presume you have a lack of grass. The absolute best solution for weight gain in the absence of a predisposition to laminitis is as much grass that you can throw at her! My old girl was in the haylage field for 4 weeks and she now looks great for it! To be honest that amount of grass would probably have killed most horses!!!

Back to the empty belly scenario. The horses digestive system is designed to principally digest fibre and when fibre intake is too low (could be inability to eat due to poor teeth or pain from arthritis in the jaw or just through inappetance) the balance of bacteria essential for digestion in the horse can be very seriously affected, often leaving the horse with a very limited ability to actually extract any significant amount of nutrition from all that feed you are giving her.

Therefore my suggestions for you to try if you wish are based on rebalancing her gut and ensuring that she is receiving enough fibre to keep her digestion working as efficiently as it is able.

A pro and prebiotic supplement, such as pink powder that has already been mentioned at the highest recemmended initial dose will help to address any bacterial imbalance there may be. Providing her with a selection of high energy fibrous feeds will hopefully promote her interest and intake levels. Products such as high fibre cubes, alfalfa chaffs, grass chaffs, grass nuts, rice bran (equi-jewel I think), copra meal (coconut meal), high oil supplements such as baileys outshine - I'm sure there are many more such things on the market but those are a few to think about. Also have a look at Bailey's Endurance mix as a hard feed - its a great conditioning feed although that is not what its actually marketed as.

I would also suggest trying her on a sachet of bute a day if she's not already on it. My old girl has a considerably lower food intake level without it. This could be due to pain specifically from arthritic changes in her TMJ (jaw joint!) which my vet says he can feel or just generally improves her aches and pains overall so subsequently as she's happier, she eats more. She is nicely covered (maybe even chubby!!) at the moment at 616kg on the weigh tape. Before I got my head around the above, I was pouring £25 worth of high starch feeds into her every week and she was 467kg at her worst. I was probably making the situation worse and assaulting my bank balance!!

I wish you the very best for your beautiful girl and hope that you have maybe been able to get some help from my suggestions.

Oh and cover her slender frame with a fly rug to keep the interfering (although undoubtedly well meaning) public at bay!!


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## itsme123 (25 June 2010)

brighteyes said:



			Anyone remember Boodle on here?  And the truly heartbreaking decline of her beloved Trixie?  She did everything in her power for Trix (who was slowly fading away) and regularly posted pictures *lots* and asked for advice.  She knew, and we knew, that it was getting close to Trixie's 'time' and had Trixie not made the call herself, Boodle was facing up to her responsibilities as every great horse owner does.

I take my hat off to you for braving the forum's responses. I do not condemn you.  While she is relatively happy, eating and managing the day to day things important to her without too much effort, then let her be.  

I look at it this way - the people who called in on her behalf, were checking to make sure someone was looking after her.  And you are.  So that's OK.  Are horses not allowed retirement and a few years mooching about for fear the 'ribs police' will strike?  She may well be healthier than these lardy creatures waddling about in fields and the showring.  Let's face it - she has got to 28!  I wish you and her a lovely summer.  She'll let you know if and when she's had enough and you will do right by her.  I have no worries on that score.

Chin up x
		
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I was trying to remember the forum member's name. Trixie was far older and (no offence Boodle if you're reading) thinner than Ellie, but she was a happy pony who enjoyed mooching round fields and going for walks, just being loved.  She lived to a ripe old age. 

ME: you clearly love her to bits, and no-one should have any concern for her welfare. 
get a good night's sleep and do what is right for Ellie, not what others say. She's happy, she's alert and you've the whole summer ahead of you. xxx


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## LittleSoph (25 June 2010)

Gosh, what a diverse range of replies.
Personally, I do think she looks poor, but she's an old girl... she's allowed to let herself go a little 
I think, personally, when you said that she is still happy in herself, that was the answer. Until she starts letting you know that she no longer wants to be here, if you can and want to keep her here, do so!!

There's lots of great advice on here and I'm sure you'll agree you owe it to both you and her to give a few things a try. If your vet is happy, you are happy and she is happy, surely they are the most important opinions that matter??!


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## 3BayGeldings (25 June 2010)

*deleted... cba*


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## Tormenta (25 June 2010)

pastie2 said:



			I concider that the horse is failing, she is old, and the time has come to make the most heart wrenching decision that eventually comes to us all. Please realise that the time has come. Its late june and she will never ever look any better than she does now.
		
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You see I am going to put my neck on the line here and disagree. If this horse is happy within herself and what I mean is shows a good quality of enjoying life then why should she be put down because she looks thinner than is accepted? (Has anyone ever seen how humans age?) I have a friend with a pony who is almost 40 years old, looks similiar, gets well fed as does this horse and all her needs catered to. She is still fit enough to withstand the horrendous Winter we have just had with good care, is as bright as a button, still wants to tease the geldings and is thoroughly enjoying life with a spring in her step. My friend has even had the vet give their opinion, and their opinion is that they would not want her to be much thinner but as she is enjoying life and is cared for then they are fine with that.

I don't think an elderly horse needs to be put down because it can't carry the same weight it used to when it was younger. There are ways and means to catering for elderly horses. As long as they are happy to be alive, are not becoming skeletal due to ailments and are still displaying a healthy attitude to life, food and things in general then I see no just cause to say, 'put it to sleep'.


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## Tiffany (25 June 2010)

She does look underweight so I can understand why some people would ring RSPCA or other animal welfare society. Presume the person who rang doesn't know you or your horse amd I suppose they were thinking better to be safe than sorry particularly, with the Jamie case still fresh in peoples minds. 

You've nothing to hide, you are taking good care of her and that will be evident to the RSPCA.

She's a grand age - bless her


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## fingers_crossed (25 June 2010)

It sounds like you are doing everything you can to keep her well and happy so well done.I think you've had some honest comments and good advice so far, especially on feeding.
Now.....I'm sure i'll get jumped on by someone for this but here goes..... I think part of the problem is the cushing coat, which will also be quite hot for her this time of year. We used to have one a bit like her and in the end we ended up clipping her out in summer and it did make her look alot healthier and more comfortable - it might help the appearance for the passer by as an added bonus?

Disclaimer: I am not suggested health problems should be covered up to be ignored by strategic grooming, just feel this might make MEs life easier from the POV of outside interference.


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## flowerlady (26 June 2010)

Hi Mrs Elle

Well I've seen worse.  But she is old.  The grass around her looks rather sparse or is it just near the gate?  Have you tried Bailey No4 Topline cube?  I have no doubt you have and always will do the best for Ellie.  Good luck


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## Puppy (26 June 2010)

Persephone said:



			If I didn't know the background, then yes I would have reported her.

Even a horsey person would look at her and think, she needs three feeds a day and  maybe her teeth done.

You are doing the best you can for her Mrs Elle, which is great, but unfortunately that's not always bery obviousl when our horses become elderly.

I think it was a fair reporting.
		
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I completely agree with what Percy has said.  

Sorry, Mrs Elle, but she does look incredibly poor, and without any knowledge, if I saw her, then I would be concerned for her welfare. 

I hope that you can find a diet that helps her. Best wishes for you both. xxxx


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## Snickers (26 June 2010)

Personally, if I saw her in the field, yes D: But that's without knowing her age or situation, just if I was driving past and saw her out the car window, I would probably give them a ring. 

Butt, I've never had any elderly horses apart from natives, and they're good doers anyway, so I wouldn't know what diet to recommend. One of my boys was a rescue, and severly malnourished, and Alfa A worked wonders for his condition, without making him too wild! And oil, I guess, is always good for weight.


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## MurphysMinder (26 June 2010)

Mrs Elle , you say in the post in soapbox that she has "a bit of lameness".  If she isn't on bute already it might be worth putting her on it, if she is comfier she may put on weight too.  My oldie was on a low dose of bute for a long time, my vet said long term damage wasn't an issue , more important to keep her happy for the time she had left.  She actually kept going far longer than we anticipated with no problems at all.


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## ISHmad (26 June 2010)

She does look quite poor at the moment but we all know from your posts that you are a caring and committed horse owner and I'm sure you'll take on board some of the suggestions re alternative feeds to try.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (26 June 2010)

LittleSoph said:



			Gosh, what a diverse range of replies.
Personally, I do think she looks poor, but she's an old girl... she's allowed to let herself go a little 
I think, personally, when you said that she is still happy in herself, that was the answer. Until she starts letting you know that she no longer wants to be here, if you can and want to keep her here, do so!!

There's lots of great advice on here and I'm sure you'll agree you owe it to both you and her to give a few things a try. If your vet is happy, you are happy and she is happy, surely they are the most important opinions that matter??!
		
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My thoughts exactly


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## wildwest (26 June 2010)

yes shes too thin even for her age :{


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## Pearlsasinger (26 June 2010)

Sorry Mrs Elle, I do think she looks poor and I can see why a  passer-by with little horse knowledge, or a more knowledgeable passerby with no idea of the horse's history might feel the need to report to the RSPCA.  I know of other oldies who have been reported.  Of course as soon as the Inspector hears the age, the frequency of vet visits etc, he goes away again saying ' you are doing as much as you can'.  I would be most worried about the poor backend and obvious discomfort that this horse is in.  Is she on bute?  Or have you tried magnet boots?  I can recommend both for arthritic horses. 
Our oldie, who used to be a very good doer, lost weight as soon as she went out 24/7, this year.   She refused to eat any supplementary feed and we were quite worried about her.  She has now picked up again and is eating grassnuts again.  We find that these are very good at putting/keeping weight on (but not if they're left in the bucket, lol).
We have been told that her heart is not good, so we, too, are thinking that we probably won't take her into the winter.  We will have a last chat with the vet at flu/tet booster time in Aug and make the decision then.  We have had her a very long time and she has been brilliant.  She owes us absolutely nothing and we owe her a dignified end, while she is still relatively well.


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## digitalangel (26 June 2010)

ive seen a lot worse, yes shes thin, but she looks *old* NOT abused or neglected. Shes obviously well cared for - her feet have been seen to and shes obviously had a groom recently. I agree she looks 'tucked up' and i think there have been some brilliant and very throughful replies on this thead as per feeding recommendations.


i do concede that a general Joe Bloggs probably wouldnt know the difference though.

MsE its obvious how much you care. Full credit to you for doing all you can for this mare. xx


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## GlamourDol (26 June 2010)

I have to say that i probably would have been concerned if i didnt know her history.
It seems that as a member of the public, you are damned if you do, and damned if you dont. I hope with a true case of neglect, there is someone to contact the RSPCA. 

Just a side thought, could you tidy her up a little, ie pull her mane etc, she may look a little less like shes just been thrown in a field.

If this has been said already, then pls ignore, i dont have enough dedication to HHO to read 8 pages. lol


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## MagicMelon (26 June 2010)

I'm afraid I'd agree with most others - I'd be seriously concerned if this were my horse.  Has she been like this long?  My veteran (22 yrs old I think) has only this year come out of the winter (albeit very bad winter) looking very "hippy" and too slim.  Cant see his ribs at all, but he's definately not as good condition as usual. I've been depserately trying to fatten him up a bit now before the winter, difficult when he's cushings as have to watch what he eats though - he cant get any of the "senior" type feeds.  Have you had yours tested for cushings??  Might be worth doing so.


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## ladyt25 (26 June 2010)

I think I would agree with the majority on this one and say yes she does look poor but no I probably wouldn't have jumped to calling the RSPCA as i would have tried to find out a bit more about her first. However, it can be very hard as an outsider to approach a horse owner and draw attention to things like this as it can be taken wrong, cause upset and confrontation so maybe whoever did this was just considering your horse's welfare.

I would be concerned she seems to be hanging on to a fair bit of coat to be honest as she should have shed this by now. We have a 26 yo TB who came out of winter a bit thinner than usual and seems to have taken longer to pick up but he is very glossy in his coat, has lost all his winter coat and is very perky and eating well.

I would maybe reconsider what feed you are giving her. Fast fiber (soaked) is supposed to be brilliant at putting weight on. Years ago when we had oldies (one lived til 36 one, well god knows how old he was) we fed them a mixture of high fibre and stud cubes which really kept the weight on. Allen & Page also do an Old Faithful mix which we did feed our TB before this last winter and will probably put him on again this winter as he did so well on it and LOVED it!!! 

I wish you luck. We had one in a por state many years ago and we too had the vet check him regularly as we thought maybe it was 'time' for him but the vet checked his vitals and they were all fine and he told us as long as the pony was still alert and happy and eating then we were best to keep going as we were. We knew he wasn't suffering but eventually it did come to be his time, his whole demeanor changed and we knew he'd just had enough. I think the sign on the gate may be useful and stop any further RSPCA calls!


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## herewego (26 June 2010)

Sorry but I agree with the others, not knowing the history of the horse I would be concerned, I have a 28 year old gelding and he looks a picture of health, hes on nothing but grass at the moment. Hope you sort your mare out. Good luck


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## natalia (26 June 2010)

If she were mine this would be her last summer. I couldn't go in to a winter with a horse that thin and on that much food. By all means change her diet, see what you can do, but remember, its better a day to early than a day too late.


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## humblepie (26 June 2010)

My old horse was much much thinner after an illness.  Fortunately he was a good doer and got his weight back on with veteran plus, equijewel (which I think someone else has mentioned), sugar beet and ad lib hay/grass.  I think quite often it can be a case of finding what works for a particular horse.   

Fortunately the yard was not near a road and everyone at the yard knew his history as I am sure we would have been reported every day he was that thin.   If you are not the best thing to do is probably to have a chat with your vet and see what they suggest or think.    Good luck with your horse.


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## LFORLEATHER (26 June 2010)

Hi, I'm probably teaching Grandmother to suck eggs, but have you had Ellie's back checked by a back specialist? I have found that it's impossible to put weight on horses of any age if their backs are out, and your mare's weak back end make me wonder if she has damage in the lumbar region: it wouldn't cost a fortune to check it and it might make all the difference!
I sincerely feel for you and  I know you are doing your best - keep your chin up !


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## Puppy (26 June 2010)

Mrs Elle, have you had Ellie tested for cushings?


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (26 June 2010)

i think i would probably have a squint at her feet, and have a nose round to see if there was water IE is this horse being looked after and checked regularly.if close by i would give it 2/3 days and look out for signs of feeding and maybe try and catch you and have a chat. if it was too far to double check (ie i saw her on the way back from a show) then yes, im afraid id report her.

have you tried linseed, charnwood milling linseed has put a huge amount of condition on my 2 ex racers,its easy to feed and digest and you dont need to make up huge feeds to get a lot of calories down them with it. worth a shot id think????

big hugs, sounds like you are trying your heart out for her xxx


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## zeuscleoharmony (27 June 2010)

So someone reported you.  In their eyes there was justification.  You appear to have satisfied the RSPCA that she is being cared for to the best of your ability.  Put this episode behind you.

You know Ellie is getting the best care you can give.  You know Ellie.  You say she is happy and content.  She is not a hat rack.  You still have time to prepare yourself and her for the winter ahead.  With the advice of others on here perhaps her feeding regime can change and she will pick up.  Perhaps not.  Don't make any decisions just yet.

Enjoy Ellie and let her enjoy you.  You will know, without any influence from anybody, when the time is right to say goodbye and at the moment it doesn't sound like that time is now.

Wishing you and Ellie and Chad many happy hours spent together xxx  Oh, and not forgetting Blue! xxx


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (27 June 2010)

Luci07 said:



			What about putting up a notice on your field? something like, Please leave me in peace, I am elderly, cranky and a little bit arthritic. I am also under veterinary care and am doing the best I can!
		
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Aww that sounds like a good idea


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## abercrombie&titch (27 June 2010)

I also love the idea of the sign on the gate!! I'm sure all these suggestions will have been made (apologies for not reading 9 pages!!) - fly rug to avoid drawing attention to her supermodel size zero status (!!), lots of grass if she can take it, I found TopSpec Super Conditioning mix good for my oldie - you don't need to feed much in each feed - feed four/five times daily, soya oil (plus vit e if you feed lots of oil), bute as needed etc etc - I'm sure you know all this already, and have probably tried much of it. Very best of luck....


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## jokadoka (28 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			Thank you for all your replies, sometimes it is hard to look objectively when you see something everyday.

I really don't know what else I can do   I have tried several different feeding regimes over the last year since she was attacked by a dog and lost the weight.  She has ad lib haylege as well as her three feeds a day.  The vet and I had talked about this being her last summer if I can't get the weight on her, I can't let her go into winter in this condition   

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Try her on Alphabeet, it doesn't fizz them up and you can give as much as you like, soaked and mixed in with your other feedroutine, it put no end of weight on my TB
Good luck!


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## Amymay (28 June 2010)

I do understand she is thin but what is your honest opinion? Would you have called the RSPCA out after seeing her
		
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Yes I would.

Sorry, haven't read all the other posts - so I may be repeating.

I'm sure you're doing your best for her - but if those are recent pictures, I'd be thinking about her future very carefully - and fully agree with your vet.


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## pipstar (28 June 2010)

Hi

I'm not going to judge you, but I have just found this on ebay number 270562804926.   'If there are any concerns about these horses then please phone' sign.  Might be worth putting one up, then people will be aware that you are aware that the general public might feel there is a problem, at least you can put them right.

Wishing you lots of luck with her.

x


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## Indy (28 June 2010)

I wouldn't start making rash decisions about her future just yet.

My horse was injured in the field back in 2007  (he was 16 at the time)- he was on box rest and then had to be evacuated due to the floods.  He went downhill rapidly and I've just looked at a photo of him and he looked a hell of a lot worse than your mare.  I tried everything - swapping feeds, worming, teeth but he just kept deteriorating.  He got alopecia and lost his coat and that made him look even worse.   It just seemed like everything was shutting down - even my vet started saying things like 'they don't live forever' as if preparing me for the worse.

And yes, I got reported to the RSPCA.

We ended up trying him on a course of steroids and the improvement after 2 month was dramatic.  Maybe have a proper chat with your vet about different options - he may think steroids isn't the way forward - I don't know, but it worked for my boy.  We've basically put the severe weight loss and alopecia down to stress and mental trauma of the floods.  If your mare has been worried by a dog then mentally it may have taken it's toll on her.

To be honest she looks bright in her eye and you aren't the best photographer in the world!   My other horse (whose 20) can look angular if you've got him at a funny angle.

Like I say have a proper chat with your vet - get a profile done, ask about the pros and cons of steroids and then take it from there.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (28 June 2010)

From a person who has a poor doer oldie then i sympathise completely. I was ashamed of my boys condition last year and it wasnt til june that he began to look right.

I would have called the SSPCA on my boy last year he was terrible just like your girl. If you cannot get her looking right by August then I would seriously consider (after consulting your vet of course ) PTS as I would do the same for my boy had he continued to look like a hat rack every year.

Can you give us a list of her feed that she gets 3times daily so that we are not suggesting something that your trying???

I used to give my boy (scoop is a large round scoop)

1 x scoop of alpha a orig
1 x scoop of spillers conditioning cubes
1 x sccop of speedibeet
2 x coffee cups of veg/corn oil
and his hoof and joint supps

He got that that twice a day and ad lib hay both in the field and in stable and even with this he came out looking poor.

Now this year i have swapped the speedibeet for normal molassed beetpulp (the 24hr soaking one) and added extra bulk with a cheap molassed chaff so he was getting

1 x Scoop of alpha a
1 x 1/2 scoop of chaff
1 x scoop of conditioning cubes
1 x scoop of beetpulp
and the normal supps,

I had to cut out the oil as he was putting too much weight on. He cant have cereals as he is intolerant and the micronised wheat in the cubes is the most he can handle. This also didnt stretch my pocket as the beet pulp was over 5 quid cheaper for a 25kg sack which paid for the chaff to bulk out the feed and with it being molassed it added extra calories as well as bulk. A good friend also suggested copra meal as its coconut and high in fat content. I couldnt feed it as I am allergic to it but I would have tried it if I wasnt. 

The beetpulp and chaff did the world of difference to him and he actually looked tubby at one point before he came into full work. He hasnt looked like that in the 6 years I have had him 

nikki xxx


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## rachiianne (29 June 2010)

I wouldn't. This horse is clearly an old horse, as MrsElle tells us she is 28 years old. I had a highland gelding for 30 years, he died when he was 34. Towards the end he looked awful, he was all hips and ribs, knobbly legs and a skeletal face but the vet said he was healthy for his age but he was simply deteriorating like all old people and horses do. We used to get all sorts of comments about him though from people that had no clue.  
If she is eating and grazing well then obviously her weight problem is inevitable due to her age and again if she is not a good doer then its already going to be a struggle to keep weight on her.
If Ellie seems happy and the vet is happy then I think it is irrelevant what other people think when they don't have the full story. If you are giving her all the nutrients she needs to be healthy on the inside I think that should take priority over what she looks like on the outside. 
If her eyes are bright and she seems happy and comfortable in herself then I don't think you should worry over her physical appearance. Obviously, when she begins to deteriorate further this is when the problem should be addressed again.


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## Bens_Mum (29 June 2010)

Definately put the signs up. We had trouble with people thinking we were 'cruel' as our two ponies are not on grass but a surface with haynets. Both ponies have problems with putting on too much weight and laminitis so have to have very restricted grazing.  I put up a sign saying 'Please don't feed the ponies they are on restricted feed due to health problems' with my phone number underneath and that was the end of it. I think alot of people think they are helping and don't realise the animals are old, have a medical condition etc.. 
On the other side of the fence which has been said loads before the field up the road had 20 severely emaciated meat ponies in it, every authority was called, one died in the barbed wire and had to be removed by the fire service, several escaped, a foal lay dead in the field they went days without water but no one did anything but watch this includes the Police, RSPCA, local charities and WHW who could do nothing for them...


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## JackDaniels1 (29 June 2010)

Hi L,

I know it's prob not ideal but if you're stuck for ideas, you are welcome to use one of our fields for her to try and get some Dr green down her! Just a thought. x


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## dressagecrazy (29 June 2010)

She is looking a bit poor, blees it's really hard with Oldies mines a 25yo rickerty TB who can go from being porky to skinny in a blink of an eye.

ATM, i have him on Topspec Topchop Alfa, Speedibeet, Topspec Coolcondition cubes, Equijewel & micronised linseed. He gets 4 feeds a day as he's not on good grazing atm due to the hard ground he also get's ad lib haylage. 
His 4th feed of the day is his overnighter as sometimes he doesnt eat all his haylage if it's hot. But will eat his overnight feed which is different topchop lite & a handful of Topspec Fibre plus cubes. 

He does brilliant on this & is maintaining a good weight with a healthy shine.


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## lexiedhb (29 June 2010)

I think the problem is there is a world of difference between "us" seeing this mare, and a member of joe public. I would think she was maybe a bit old (could have a quick squizz at her teeth if she was a friendly type), but if I could see fresh water/feed buckets/head collars all suggesting she was being cared for then NO I wouldnt of rung the RSPCA.

Joe bloggs on the other hand sees a skinny horse (does she have field mates they would compare her too?) whose coat isnt all shiney, as she still has winter fluff, and just assume they are doing the right thing.......


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## Cedars (29 June 2010)

Annoying for you, but I'm glad members of the public will ring if they think a horse is distressed.

Better than them walking by and doing nothing.


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## annaellie (29 June 2010)

flamehead said:



			Annoying for you, but I'm glad members of the public will ring if they think a horse is distressed.

Better than them walking by and doing nothing.
		
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I totally agree with this and as others have said try a sign, I remember moving onto a yard and there was a chesnut tied up on the yard he looked like a complete rescue case  I moved on the yard through a friends recommendation, I later asked her if there was a reason for the horses condition she told me he was 32 had no teeth and was receiving regular vet care  though it would be his last summer 
I being horsey knew there could be reasons behind the horse being in poor condition but as others have said joe public will just see a horse in poor condition and not think why they I would imagine just presume neglect 
When My mare had a colic op she looked in a right state TB dropped tons of weight, I was on a livery and RS riding school clients did go in the office and state there concern for her to which with my consent the YM explained about what she had been through and was receiving all the care she needed. 
At the time I thought you nosy gits but looking back at least they shown concern they was not to know


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## Shysmum (29 June 2010)

I absolutely hate to say it, but I think this horse is nearing the end of life. If she was mine, and I was looking after her as well as she is now being cared for, and she still looked that poor, I would know that now is the time to say goodbye - from here on in, she can only start to go further downhill. There comes a time where you have to let go, there may be some underlying and hidden condition causing this. 

sm x


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## peanut (29 June 2010)

QR  If I was a member of the general non-horsey public, then I probably would have.


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## Kenzo (29 June 2010)

She does look very poor but then she is getting on and some people when get old and frail, they loose weight and look terrible as well, doesnt mean there not receiving the care they require (if in a nursing home etc) but good thing about older equines is we have the choice to do a very kind thing.

If an elderly horse gets to to the stage where it can no longer keep it's weight on (despite being fed everything under the sun and the owner doing all they can) then to me, that says the time is right to let them go with dignity and while there still feeling well.

I really wouldn't worry what people say, or if people are reporting you, end of the day, you know what the situation is, you are doing all you can, the only important thing is you knowing when the time is right. 

(((hugs)))


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## Berkeley (29 June 2010)

I have seen ALLOT worse. 

My friend has a TB gelding, about 28 yrs old. He looks like a hat rack. Its absolutely awful to look at him. He eats for England, the vet is aware of his severe weight issue but the horse is healthy. She has been reported several times - and each time she understands why. She keeps a rug on him all the time now. In the summer he is put into a secure field where no one can see, with a fly sheet. 

She has thought about PTS - but each time the motivation for that is because of what other people say about him.


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## BBH (29 June 2010)

This is really topical for me as I have an aged 25yrs TB who drops weight despite eating like a horse.

I have actually thought about having him PTS incase someone reports me but then there are two others in the field who are fine so I hope anyone realises he's old.

I am going to say goodbye at the end of the summer though as his legs are not going to carry his 17hh frame for ever and for both our sakes its the right time.


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## brighteyes (29 June 2010)

*QR*

I'd also be calling up feed companies asking for free samples of their product - I bought A&P's Fastfibre and she wouldn't touch it!  

I'm really not sure 'cereals' are the way to go - fibre in as sloppy a form as you can find would be my thinking.  Love the sound of Slobbermash! I was restricted as our pony was laminitic (Cushing's and EMS) but you should be able to give her anything - within reason.


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## camilla4 (29 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			Thank you for all your replies, sometimes it is hard to look objectively when you see something everyday.

I really don't know what else I can do   I have tried several different feeding regimes over the last year since she was attacked by a dog and lost the weight.  She has ad lib haylege as well as her three feeds a day.  The vet and I had talked about this being her last summer if I can't get the weight on her, I can't let her go into winter in this condition   

Click to expand...

Poor you Mrs Elle - this is a horrible situation to be in and one that so many of us will have to face.  I do agree that her condition is a cause for concern - as others have said, the fact that it is summer makes it more worrying and I would certainly be concerned about her having to face another winter.  You clearly care for her very deeply and are doing everything possible but, as you are obviously all too aware, if her weight cannot be sorted by the end of the summer, it may be time to consider some difficult optiions.  Huge hugs though as I know how tough this can be.

Do keep us posted on her progress, won't you?


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## pastie2 (29 June 2010)

Berkeley said:



			I have seen ALLOT worse. 

My friend has a TB gelding, about 28 yrs old. He looks like a hat rack. Its absolutely awful to look at him. He eats for England, the vet is aware of his severe weight issue but the horse is healthy. She has been reported several times - and each time she understands why. She keeps a rug on him all the time now. In the summer he is put into a secure field where no one can see, with a fly sheet. 

She has thought about PTS - but each time the motivation for that is because of what other people say about him.
		
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Sorry, but to have seen a horse in a lot worse condition does not condone the OPs horses condition. I dont understand your comment about the horse that you have described as being at all healthy! To have to be put in a secure field with a fly sheet on so no one can see him, sounds to me like a big decision needs to be made. Why wait until the horse is really suffering before putting down. We have that choice with our animals, sadly not for our ailing and in pain human beings.


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## jaypeebee (29 June 2010)

pastie2 said:



			Sorry, but to have seen a horse in a lot worse condition does not condone the OPs horses condition.
		
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I agree and cannot understand why people say things like this.  The OPs horse is not looking great and needs weight on it.  Its feet are too long and its mane and coat look unkempt.  I can understand why people would report this horse and it has nothing to do with whether people understand horses or not, the horse does not look cared for.  Im sorry OP as it does sound like you are trying to do your best for the horse but it doesnt seem to be working.  What exactly are you feeding the horse?  And how many lbs per day is it getting?  There is somewhat a science to keeping old horses looking good and maybe you are just feeding the wrong type of feed for the horse to thrive on.


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## R2R (29 June 2010)

OP, I feel for you I really do. Some of the comments on this thread have been less than constructive. 

I think you need to asses your mares quality of life and put her needs before yours. That does not mean I am telling you to PTS by the way, just to do what is best for the old girl. 

Good luck and lots of love to you - it cant be easy.


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## Hels_Bells (29 June 2010)

I couldn't agree more than with CM2851 about the feeding advice.  My oldie was struggling a few years ago, and having made some changes in diet he's now looking better at 31 than he was at 28/29.  Admittedly he isn't a poor doer but I would suggest you try the following feeds if you haven't already (in order of preference):-

Baileys Outshine
Pink Powder
Mollychaff Herbal
Fibrebeet or Alphabeet
Plus perhaps some other general mix (mine gets 16+)

Also agree with those who say that as much grass as possible without risking lami is a great thing at this time of year and also what is the quality of your haylage like, make sure she is getting the best you can (and that doesn't necessarily mean a "name" type brand of haylage, a top quality meadow type from a good old fashioned farmer type is often the best!!)

Finally, yes as a passer-by I would probably have reported her to the WHW etc - but if I knew her age and that you have her under careful vet instruction I definitely wouldn't have.


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## pastie2 (29 June 2010)

R2R said:



			OP, I feel for you I really do. Some of the comments on this thread have been less than constructive. 

I think you need to asses your mares quality of life and put her needs before yours. That does not mean I am telling you to PTS by the way, just to do what is best for the old girl. 

Good luck and lots of love to you - it cant be easy.
		
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If you are refering to my post R2R, there is not really a constructive answer to OPs question. I understand your urge to suger coat your answer, but in my opinion this mare is in need. The unfortunate aspect of horse, animal ownership is having the knowledge to call it a day.


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## Puppy (29 June 2010)

Hels_Bells said:



			Also agree with those who say that as much grass as possible without risking lami is a great thing at this time of year
		
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Which is why I'm wondering if the mare has been tested for cushings as she certainly doesn't want lots of rich grass if she does. Nor would she want much in the way of cereals.


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## marmalade76 (29 June 2010)

Spudlet said:



			In all honesty I think I might well have done, I'd be worried about a horse that looked like that at this time of year. I would certainly have made sure to walk past a few more times at the very least to see how she was doing.

I don't want to overstep the mark, but I do think you need to consider your options very carefully before the winter comes I'm sorry.
		
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Ditto the above, sorry.


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## jaypeebee (29 June 2010)

This post went up a few days ago now so what was the outcome of the RSPCAs visit?


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## PurplePickle (29 June 2010)

well I had a horse very similar looking to your mare in breed, he would not put weighto n at all no matter what he ate, vet checks etc etc RSPCA came out to look at him and although he was underweight his coat gleamed, they said they could see we did all we could for him and left us alone. Hope you have a good outcome of this, we never did find out why our elderly horse wouldnt put on an ounce


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## Weezy (29 June 2010)

No I wouldn't have reported her.  If she is having 3 feeds a day and haylage then there would be signs of that in the field, so with that, along with fresh water, I would have been happy.  I would have had a look at her feet and general wellbeing (i.e. I would be concerned if she had knots in her mane or tail as I take that, at this time of year, to be caused by people not giving a damn).

I would have tried to find out whose horse it was and have a chat with them rather than calling the RSPCA - I would do that anyway.  There is a LOT of bitching and moaning about the RSPCA on this board, but if they are being called out to look at elderly horses who obv have grass, feed, haylage and water, then that doesn't leave them a lot of time for the real welfare cases.


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## pastie2 (29 June 2010)

Summerleft said:



			well I had a horse very similar looking to your mare in breed, he would not put weighto n at all no matter what he ate, vet checks etc etc RSPCA came out to look at him and although he was underweight his coat gleamed, they said they could see we did all we could for him and left us alone. Hope you have a good outcome of this, we never did find out why our elderly horse wouldnt put on an ounce
		
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And the outcome was?


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## Echo Bravo (29 June 2010)

for an old lady she looks grand. What most people forget is that in Victorian times and earlier horses were old and past it at 9 years old and worked to death. I think we've gotten soft on our animals over the years. So we have fat kids and fat animals, seems the way the world Western type is going.


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## pastie2 (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			for an old lady she looks grand. What most people forget is that in Victorian times and earlier horses were old and past it at 9 years old and worked to death. I think we've gotten soft on our animals over the years. So we have fat kids and fat animals, seems the way the world Western type is going.

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Whaaaaaaaat are you talking about. I cant believe your post at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nikicb (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			for an old lady she looks grand. (
		
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I'm sorry I disagree - please take a look at this post and let me know what you think.....

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=379547

But that doesn't mean I don't have sympathy/empathy for the OP.  It's hard to keep condition on the oldies.  And I do feel reasonably qualified to pass comment.


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## Toast (29 June 2010)

Ive seen worse!! I know its terribly hard keeping weight on oldies once they start losing it! I cant blame the public for reporting her, to an average non horsey person she just looks thin!!
But i wouldnt worry, at least you know your doing everything you can to help her 
x


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## pastie2 (29 June 2010)

nikicb said:



			I'm sorry I disagree - please take a look at this post and let me know what you think.....

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=379547

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nikicb, all I can say is quite, quite and again. Your horse is amazing!!!!!!!


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## Umbongo (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			for an old lady she looks grand(
		
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I'm sorry but what!

I think she is thin and especially at this time of year I would like to see more weight on her. A pony at my yard was 42 when he got pts last year (because he trod on a nail of all things and we decided it was time for him to go and not go through the treatment), and he looked a lot better than this mare. He had no teeth and a long coat which we had to clip, he lived off mashes and sugarbeet etc, and on a condition score of 1 to 9 with 5 being ideal, he was about a 4...which is not bad for his age!!!

If I was a non horsey member of the public I would have been worried about her, but as a horsey person so long as I could see enough grass, water and feed buckets obviously having been used then I don't think I would have called the RSCPA. We all know how hard it is to keep weight on some horses!


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## Umbongo (29 June 2010)

nikicb said:



			I'm sorry I disagree - please take a look at this post and let me know what you think.....

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=379547

Click to expand...

Wow she looks amazing for 34!


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## Sparkles (29 June 2010)

I think the OP is being sensible tbh by giving her till the end of summer to live out and decide the important decision then.
Nothing else you can really do other than keep feeding her and keeping her comfortable as you can, which is what you're trying from what'sbeen posted. 

I know she means a lot to you like any of our horses do and have to do what's in her best interest, be it a hard decision or not.
I don't think it's fair comparing horses, as no two horses are identical regardless of age and how well they keep etc.

I hope it's a good turnaround once she's had a summer full of grass and all the best x x


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## Echo Bravo (29 June 2010)

The History of the London Horse Cab by Trevor May. Very good read may broaden some people minds a bit.


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## annaellie (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			The History of the London Horse Cab by Trevor May. Very good read may broaden some people minds a bit.
		
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I will have a look for that one thank you


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## Umbongo (29 June 2010)

Binky01 said:



			I hope it's a good turnaround once she's had a summer full of grass and all the best x x
		
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Agree, I hope things do turn out well. But if things do not go as planned and you decide to give the mare the summer then pts before she may start to feel the effects of the winter, then you have done the right thing by your mare.

I haven't read all the replies, did the RSCPA come out to see your mare?
And can you put up a sign to try to stop the public reporting you?


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## nikicb (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			The History of the London Horse Cab by Trevor May. Very good read may broaden some people minds a bit.
		
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I'm sorry, but fascinating as this subject is (and I am heavily into genealogy and many of my ancestors were actually London cab drivers, of the horse variety) this relates to 100 years ago.  If I was still living by these standards my 7 year old son would probably be up a chimney as we speak.


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## jaypeebee (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			for an old lady she looks grand.

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Dont be silly.  She does not look grand.  Many people including me have horses in their 30s and 40s who do not look in the same poor condition as the OPs horse.  Yes I have seen a lot worse too but that is irrelevant and should not take away from the FACT that the OPs horse is not *grand*.


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## VictoriaEDT (29 June 2010)

Yes sorry i think i would too, she doesnt look in good condition at all


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## Echo Bravo (29 June 2010)

So how would you feel if somebody reported you to the RSPCA??   MissElle looks after her mare and to me for a 28year old mare she does look good for her age. I've youngsters thinner than her.


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## Sparkles (29 June 2010)

If I personally ever got reported...I'd be very worried about what must be that obvious for joe public to feel the need to report me tbh.

Not linking that to this thread or the mare or OP or anything. Just answering the question if it was me and how I'd feel.


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## nikicb (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			So how would you feel if somebody reported you to the RSPCA??   MissElle looks after her mare and to me for a 28year old mare she does look good for her age. I've youngsters thinner than her.
		
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I would be absolutely mortified.  And the reason for this is that I would feel I had let my horse down.  I don't dispute that the OP is doing her best and is also happy to listen to what others have to say.  What I disagree with is you saying that the horse 'looks grand'.


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## Puppy (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			So how would you feel if somebody reported you to the RSPCA??   MissElle looks after her mare and to me for a 28year old mare she does look good for her age. I've youngsters thinner than her.
		
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 I wouldn't be admitting to that fact!! 

I've no doubt that Mrs Elle loves Ellie very much and wants to do the best for her, but no way can her current condition be described as 'grand' or anything like it. 

This is my 24 year old, of the same size. She is not a very good doer, and is not allowed more than minimal grazing due to suffering from cushings.


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## Maesfen (29 June 2010)

I'm sorry, I think she looks appalling which is in spite of the care the OP is lavishing on her so I wouldn't hesitate to call it a day now; I feel while the sentiment is good it is unrealistic in this case and the 'give her the summer' brigade are wanting to give her far too many days for far too long out of pity to the OP, not the horse herself.  Sorry, I agree with Pastie, amongst others, although it's not our decision to make of course.


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## Echo Bravo (29 June 2010)

So MrsElle the no votes are against you. And grand is an old yorkshire saying for looking well.


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## Echo Bravo (29 June 2010)

Sorry I meant I've seen youngsters thinner than that. I know I bought a Welsh Sec D 2 year old that looked 22 years old and now he's a bolshy 4 years old and trying to keep the weight off. Swings and roundabout don't you know.


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## jaypeebee (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			So how would you feel if somebody reported you to the RSPCA??   MissElle looks after her mare and to me for a 28year old mare she does look good for her age. I've youngsters thinner than her.
		
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I wouldnt be reported to the RSPCA because none of my 30 and 40 year old horses look anything like MissElles horse.  None of my youngsters look like her either and if yours do then you should be shot.


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## Sparkles (29 June 2010)

JR^
An underfed 2 y/o isn't really anything to do with the horse in question though is it? A 2 y/o's, or any younger horse's, metabolism will be different to an elderly horses - extra energy needed for warmth, internal organs, lack of teeth, difference of body chemicals and building blocks as they have as youngsters etc.

Every horse is different and need to treat them individually, not in comparisons.
My nan isn't underweight and skinny like some elderly nans are in their 90's. Yet others are. It's each down to ones own metabolism at the end of the day.

But again. I wish you well with her this summer. I wouldn't go as far to say she's at deaths door now and past her time, but you know her and are in serious decision makings, so again, I really do wish you both the best as it is the hardest thing to know when to do the kindest thing for them - they'll let you know though. Maybe look at some nice new lush grazing somewhere where she can be turned out all summer and see what that does for her? x x


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## Echo Bravo (29 June 2010)

Well seeing hay is in short supply this summer and prices are going through the roof so to speak. I got quoted £8 per bale yesterday if I wanted to buy in. I'm down 123 bales this year because of the weather and I have 4 horses, luckerly I own my own land, so no livery fees. So come this time next year how many thin horses do you think there will be. But getting back to the point MrsElle was asking how did we rate her mare, most said bad have pts. I said for her age she looked good, what people forget you can stuff them full of grub and they still look thin, just like the human race.


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## Sparkles (29 June 2010)

If any person can't afford it, then they shouldn't have the horses, end of really. 

Haylage here through winter, is £40 a bale and we get through about 5 bales per week abouts. Extortionate yes, but necessary. We have our own hay during the summer which takes costs down a bit, but not many need it as the grazing is in plenty, nitrated and always lush then.

But anywho that's not what the topic is about. I know about having poor-doers and good-doers, and my god I'd choose a good doer over a poor one anyday!


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## jaypeebee (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			Well seeing hay is in short supply this summer and prices are going through the roof so to speak. I got quoted £8 per bale yesterday if I wanted to buy in. I'm down 123 bales this year because of the weather and I have 4 horses, luckerly I own my own land, so no livery fees. So come this time next year how many thin horses do you think there will be. But getting back to the point MrsElle was asking how did we rate her mare, most said bad have pts. I said for her age she looked good, what people forget you can stuff them full of grub and they still look thin, just like the human race.
		
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Okay Johnrobert if people cannot afford to buy hay for their horses then they should sell those horses to someone who can afford hay for them or have them put down.  How many thin horses will there be next year?  Certainly none of mine.  The only emaciated people you see are those living in areas of the world where starvation is life.  I do not see any emaciated people where I live and if you do then where in the world do you live?  I also do not see any emaciated horses on my yard and no I dont stuff them full of any old grub, they are fed appropriately to their age and condition.  My old horses (some almost double MrsElles horses age) are not all on the same feed programmes because what suits one old horse may do nothing for another old horse.  That was what I said in my earlier reply that perhaps MrsElle is giving her horse lots of feed but it obviously isnt the right sort of feed for that horse because the horse looks dreadful.  Sometimes it takes a little while to figure out the exact feed pattern for old horses but you can do it if you have the right sort of knowledge.


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## rosie fronfelen (29 June 2010)

just to stick my oar in,the mare looks so sad- she is painfully thin and looks unkempt. as another poster suggested, why not spend a bit of quality time with her- pull her mane a bit and a bit of a groom- TLC in other words. i have no doubt that the OP is doing her best for Ellie but i fear time is fast running out- i hope i am proved wrong.


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## Silverspring (29 June 2010)

I would have probably gone in for a closer look but you would be able to see from her face that she was an older horse.  I assume her company all look healthy so to a person with horse knowledge it would be obvious the horse was old and being well cared for but just not carrying condition.  So no I wouldn't have reported her but the person that did probably knew nothing much about horses.  The RSPCA should talk to your vet and hopefully it will go no further (I haven't read your other thread)

People are suggesting feeds that will get condition on but the fact of the matter is her digestion probably won't make much of them.  Add to that the fact she's not in work so she's doesn't have the opportunity to develop and maintain muscle and you're pretty much wasting your time.  Good grass, good hay and some high fibre feed is the best for the old timers.  We have one at our yard that looks significantly worse than this girl.  Vet is out every 3 - 4 months to check him over and keep the bute prescription going.  He's about 28 and you can see his entire spine, hips and rib cage but he's happy and he's eating so the owner has decided to keep him toddling along.


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## Sparkles (29 June 2010)

I wouldn't go as far as describing that painfully thin by any stretch of the imagination, thin, old and under yes, but not painfully.

Pulling her mane may well do fine for appearance but is personal preferance and not a necessity. I'd much prefer her to keep it with all the flies about now! She's in no need to have it pulled for showing.

But it will be personal preference and opinions like everything else. Same as a nice horse to one person, will be horrible to someone else.


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## Echo Bravo (29 June 2010)

MrsElle looks after her mare and no she doesn't look sad what ever. Just remenber the old saying what goes around, comes around. and there will be a lot of horses for sale this winter believe me.


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## rosie fronfelen (29 June 2010)

Binky01 said:



			I wouldn't go as far as describing that painfully thin by any stretch of the imagination, thin, old and under yes, but not painfully.

Pulling her mane may well do fine for appearance but is personal preferance and not a necessity. I'd much prefer her to keep it with all the flies about now! She's in no need to have it pulled for showing.

But it will be personal preference and opinions like everything else. Same as a nice horse to one person, will be horrible to someone else.
		
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i knew i was asking for trouble putting a post on here, who said anything about showing??our horses manes are kept tidy, in or out- if i had this old mare i would certainy be making bit of a fuss of her- as it is she just looks sad and neglected- my opinion, ok?


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## Mavis Cluttergusset (29 June 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			i knew i was asking for trouble putting a post on here, who said anything about showing??our horses manes are kept tidy, in or out- if i had this old mare i would certainy be making bit of a fuss of her- as it is she just looks sad and neglected- my opinion, ok?
		
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I agree - Im not sure Id have bothered with the RSPCA but I would have made enquiries as to whether she was being looked after - after all a layman can only make decisions based upon what is put in front of them. She is terribly thin and looks unkempt, and - to someone who is just passing, and knows nothing of her background - she looks like she may not be as well cared for as she is.  I would like to think that my mare will still look well groomed with a neat mane and tail when she is a pensioner, and I would be seriously concerned if she looked as poor as the mare in the OP.  I hope thats not too harsh but opinions were requested - and that's mine.


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## rosie fronfelen (29 June 2010)

one person has posted that the mare looks appalling- to try and be kind i have not said that,a bit of titivating can do wonders for appearance!!


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## itsme123 (29 June 2010)

I cannot believe this is STILL going on? 

Has OP not had enough of a bashing to last her a lifetime? a very sad time, a very difficult time, so unless there's something constructive or helpful to say maybe time to leave it be??


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## pastie2 (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			So how would you feel if somebody reported you to the RSPCA??   MissElle looks after her mare and to me for a 28year old mare she does look good for her age. I've youngsters thinner than her.
		
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That is something that I wouldnt be bragging about! I dont know who you are JR but you sound like a plonker to me!


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## Ranyhyn (29 June 2010)

I agree itsme, I think MrsElle will have gotten the point now and no more really needs to be said.  Judging by the fact she hasn't been back on the thread suggests its a bit of a painful subject and I'm sure she's taken on all the help and advice given.

And pastie2 lol, sometimes I genuinely love you, not for what you said, but your brass neck!


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## Mavis Cluttergusset (29 June 2010)

itsme123 said:



			I cannot believe this is STILL going on? 

Has OP not had enough of a bashing to last her a lifetime? a very sad time, a very difficult time, so unless there's something constructive or helpful to say maybe time to leave it be??
		
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I've only noticed it today, didn't even look at the date on the original post, since I dont come on here that often. I'll be certain to keep my opinion (which was asked for after all) in-date next time.  Didn't intend to offend.


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## asbo (29 June 2010)

cripes, some of you are pretty harsh!

i know just how hard it is to keep weight on an oldie who is a poor doer, some come through fine, some take a bit of time to get the weight on and some just dont.

you know your girl and you will know when its her time xx


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## jaypeebee (29 June 2010)

Kitsune said:



			I agree itsme, I think MrsElle will have gotten the point now and no more really needs to be said.  Judging by the fact she hasn't been back on the thread suggests its a bit of a painful subject and I'm sure she's taken on all the help and advice given.
		
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Funny that really.  I also noticed that she had been on H&H but hasnt returned to comment on this post.  It made me think that she doesnt give a hoot about the horse because if it was me I would be asking for advice and letting people know what the outcome of the RSPCA visit was.  I wouldnt be ignoring all of the people who have taken the time to reply.  I wonder now if this might be what she is doing with her horse, head in the sand type of thing you know?


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## Sparkles (29 June 2010)

That's a broad accusation to make, be fair. Anyone returning to a 17 page thread with words describing your precious horse as appalling, painfully skinny, etc is going to be harsh on the old heart!

Like it or not....no-one's under any obligation to reply to an internet forum, it's just a cross button away from not wanting slack from people you don't even know.


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## itsme123 (29 June 2010)

jaypeebee said:



			Funny that really.  I also noticed that she had been on H&H but hasnt returned to comment on this post.  It made me think that she doesnt give a hoot about the horse because if it was me I would be asking for advice and letting people know what the outcome of the RSPCA visit was.  I wouldnt be ignoring all of the people who have taken the time to reply.  I wonder now if this might be what she is doing with her horse, head in the sand type of thing you know?
		
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To be fair, if that was my oldie (and I do own a veteran who struggled last winter) I'd be heartbroken. OP isn't the kind to bury her head in the sand, more likely she's hurt by some of the things said and is just holding some dignity in not replying and is busy looking after her horses.


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## Spudlet (29 June 2010)

itsme123 said:



			To be fair, if that was my oldie (and I do own a veteran who struggled last winter) I'd be heartbroken. OP isn't the kind to bury her head in the sand, more likely she's hurt by some of the things said and is just holding some dignity in not replying and is busy looking after her horses.
		
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I would feel the same in this situation, I think. I feel very sorry for the OP as it is always heartbreaking to see age catch up with a beloved animal, and I hope that she can get things sorted with her mare, one way or the other. That needs to be her first concern, not responding to threads on the internet, IMO.


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## pastie2 (29 June 2010)

Kitsune said:



			I agree itsme, I think MrsElle will have gotten the point now and no more really needs to be said.  Judging by the fact she hasn't been back on the thread suggests its a bit of a painful subject and I'm sure she's taken on all the help and advice given.

And pastie2 lol, sometimes I genuinely love you, not for what you said, but your brass neck!
		
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You wouldnt have me any other way, I give you something to fight against!


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## jaypeebee (29 June 2010)

I dont know the OP and have never met her and probably am never likely to meet her.  It sounds like lots and lots of you on here do know her in real life and know that she does look after the horse??  She asked for opinions and most people said they thought the horse looked uncared for and underweight and only one or two people said they thought it looked fine (what planet they are on I do not know).  I hope MrsElle does read this post and it spurs her into phoning some feed companies or getting in touch with nutritionists to help this horse gain some weight.


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## Echo Bravo (29 June 2010)

Pastie2. If you had read my other post you would have read bought 2 year old. Also I should have said I've seen thinner youngsters. But yet again the posts are getting nasty. As I said what goes around comes around (Old northern saying)


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## pastie2 (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			Pastie2. If you had read my other post you would have read bought 2 year old. Also I should have said I've seen thinner youngsters. But yet again the posts are getting nasty. As I said what goes around comes around (Old northern saying)
		
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Sorry JR, I havent read your other post, but I do not want to know about your thin youngsters, whatever the age of a horse there is no need to see thin youngsters or thin oldsters, sorry but I think you are talking rubbish.


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## Echo Bravo (29 June 2010)

Ditto pastie2


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## pastie2 (29 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			Ditto pastie2
		
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What do you mean by that, JR?


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## maxapple (30 June 2010)

Tormenta said:



			You see I am going to put my neck on the line here and disagree. If this horse is happy within herself and what I mean is shows a good quality of enjoying life then why should she be put down because she looks thinner than is accepted? (Has anyone ever seen how humans age?) I have a friend with a pony who is almost 40 years old, looks similiar, gets well fed as does this horse and all her needs catered to. She is still fit enough to withstand the horrendous Winter we have just had with good care, is as bright as a button, still wants to tease the geldings and is thoroughly enjoying life with a spring in her step. My friend has even had the vet give their opinion, and their opinion is that they would not want her to be much thinner but as she is enjoying life and is cared for then they are fine with that.

I don't think an elderly horse needs to be put down because it can't carry the same weight it used to when it was younger. There are ways and means to catering for elderly horses. As long as they are happy to be alive, are not becoming skeletal due to ailments and are still displaying a healthy attitude to life, food and things in general then I see no just cause to say, 'put it to sleep'.
		
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I agree totally. I know a few horses this year that look like that. One is 38, the other is a TB and mid 20's. The older they are, the more they struggle to put weight back on after a winter like we've had, but they can often improve slowly over time. My friends TB looks so similar and he is on fantastic grazing. We've just had a nutritionist out and are about to start trying new things.

If the horse is happy and healthy and being looked after, why does it need to be put to sleep. You can see my ribs too !!


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## smellsofhorse (30 June 2010)

micramadam said:



			Please don't take this the wrong way but, Yes, I would report her. That sounds mean I know but if you saw another horse looking like this wouldn't you report it. Think of all the poor horses that have never been reported until it was already too late. IMHO always better to be safe than sorry.
		
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Sorry but i would too.

If i saw a horse like that and didnt know the full story i would also be concerned.
Is there nothing more the vet can do?
I know you said he is happy with her but is there anything else going on?
Can you speak to a feed expert and get their advice on the best feed for her?


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## Amymay (30 June 2010)

johnrobert said:



			So how would you feel if somebody reported you to the RSPCA??   MissElle looks after her mare and to me for a 28year old mare she does look good for her age. I've youngsters thinner than her.
		
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I'd be mortified if I was reported to any welfare organisation - any of us would.  However, these things are very rarely done meliciously, so common sense would tell me that there was a reason for it.  The OP recognises that the mare looks poor and can understand people's concerns.

This horse does not look good - for _any_ age.  Anno Domini catches up eventually - and this is exactly what has happened to this horse.  I have no doubt that she is given the absolute best of care.

JR - if you think it's acceptable for any horse to look like this, you need to step back and look at your own management.  

As for your ridiculous comments about London cabby horses - how on earth is it relevant here - and do you know what a horse in good and fit condition should actually look like????


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## Lollii (30 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			I haven't read all of the replies but don't get upset, you know deep down that you are doing your best for her, we have a 38 year, 17hh, ISH here, he looks ok ish but I always keep a fly rug on him when he is out in the field, he does get bitten by flies but also no one can see his body - can you put a mesh rug on her - keep the uneducated from looking 

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## Amymay (30 June 2010)

keep the uneducated from looking
		
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That's a really confusing thing to say.  I'm educated and I would be concerned about the horse..........


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## Lollii (30 June 2010)

Are you still concerned for the horse after reading everything MissElle has written here?

I understand what she is saying.

I just feel for her now after all of these replies, what is the point - she is doing the best she can - the horse is looked after and cared for, she is old and won't last another winter. 

I'm not concerned for the horse after reading her replies.


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## Amymay (30 June 2010)

Lollii said:



			Are you still concerned for the horse after reading everything MissElle has written here?
		
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No - not for a minute.

However your comment about the uneducated intimates that anyone with equine knowledge would not be concerned about this horse - if they did not know its history.  And as someone who is educated - I would be concerned if I did not know the horse or the owner.


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## GreedyGuts (30 June 2010)

Wow this post has certainly provoked a response. 

OP, I wouldn't take it personally that your horse has been reported to the RSPCA as this actually happens quite a lot for a variety of reasons. As your mare is under vet care and well looked after nothing will come of it.

I don't think your pictures are the best; she would probably look quite a bit better if she had been stood up, but frankly I think those who have said she looks sad are anthropomorphising a bit too much. Also it is impossible to judge condition accurately from a photo. You are best placed to judge her quality of life and provided she is able to mooch around and do normal horse things then I don't think being lean is a reason to have her PTS. Being thin is not painful. 

I would get your vet to check her over and run a blood profile to check that there is no obvious reason for her weightloss (liver/kidney problems etc) and if nothing shows up I would consider adding oil to her diet to up the calories cheaply without increasing the bulk.

I know how difficult this situation is, having dealt with it both on a personal level and professionally. There are lots of thin elderly horses out there, but provided you are prepared to accept a high lecvel of supportive care and are realistic about the long term then I see no reason to rush to a decision on her future in light of someone phoning the RSPCA.


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## Tinseltoes (30 June 2010)

Ive kept quiet till now.I am going to have my say!!  The pics do not do the horse any justice.Just because shes lost weight IS NOT A REASON TO PTS. Remember she is a old lady and old horses DO tend to lose weight! LET YOUR VET BE THE JUDGE AS TO WHEN ITS TIME TO SAY GOODBYE!
Ive seen a tb in worse condition than that and his owner did everything she could for him ,but eventually at 36,his kidneys were failing,and had to be pts. RIP Marvel!!
I would pop a fly rug on him too,just to keep the pesky flies off her!!
BOL hope she gains the weight back!!


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## _HP_ (30 June 2010)

Am I the only person who doesn't think she looks THAT bad for an oldie out of work? Not all horses carry thier weight the same nor look good all the time. My tb is alot younger and can look quite rough when out of work.
Why are we all so obsessed with how we want them to look? There should be alot more to whether a horse is neglected than just how they look ie how they appear in themselves.
I have a laminitic who I have been advised (by my vet and farrier) to keep to a weight whereby we can see his ribs. Both have said that if anyone has a problem with that then to refer them to them.

Tbh...I would have no qualms about being reported to the rspca...people are often wittering about how I keep my horses ie not pampered, because they are happy and healthy regardless of whether they fit into the 'how a horse should look' mould.


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## Tinseltoes (30 June 2010)

My point exactly.NOT all horses keep weight on,especially those that are old.I think a lot has to do with TB breed in general.


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## xsummerholidayx (30 June 2010)

hi i have a 16h 23 yr old gelding i have had trouble with his weight for 10 years he is in the exact same condition i have had blood tests the lot but he windsucks very bad so where he should be eating more hay and grass he chooses to suck the wood and crib bite hes also on 3 feeds a day weight gain old faithful and dengi twice a day and a big bucket of dried grass in the afternoon because he has worn his front teeth down from windsucking he finds it hard to pick grass from the ground he has 5 slices of hay a day the 2 feeds and the grass he does put on a bit this time of year but what at the moment he has torn a ligament in his leg and is in i would recommened the dried grass also since i have been giving it he looks alot better already for my horse its grass that puts the weight on there are lots of people in our situation i hae never had the rspca called on me though omg that would break my heart all the effort i put in to try and put weight on my horse i no exactly were your coming from xxx good luck xxx


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## Tinseltoes (30 June 2010)

xsummerholidayx said:



			hi i have a 16h 23 yr old gelding i have had trouble with his weight for 10 years he is in the exact same condition i have had blood tests the lot but he windsucks very bad so where he should be eating more hay and grass he chooses to suck the wood and crib bite hes also on 3 feeds a day weight gain old faithful and dengi twice a day and a big bucket of dried grass in the afternoon because he has worn his front teeth down from windsucking he finds it hard to pick grass from the ground he has 5 slices of hay a day the 2 feeds and the grass he does put on a bit this time of year but what at the moment he has torn a ligament in his leg and is in i would recommened the dried grass also since i have been giving it he looks alot better already for my horse its grass that puts the weight on there are lots of people in our situation i hae never had the rspca called on me though omg that would break my heart all the effort i put in to try and put weight on my horse i no exactly were your coming from xxx good luck xxx
		
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Is it called READY GRASS?


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## MrsElle (30 June 2010)

Wow, I can't believe this post has provoked so many replies!

I am not in the least bit offended by any comments, I asked for opinions and I recieved them.

I rang the RSPCA after recieving the notice through the letter box and explained that Ellie was old and a tad stiff due to arthritis.  The lady on the telephone said she would pass my contact number and the information I had provided onto the officer who came out to see Ellie and as yet I haven't heard from her.

There is no point putting a notice on a gate as the field is only visable from a few back gardens.  I have a pretty good idea who reported me, someone I have had problems with previously and who would like the horses off the land.

Ellie is groomed daily but holds her coat.  She has actually lost a fair bit more now and her summer coat is very very shiny and healthy looking.  She hates having her mane pulled and I do trim it occasionly but with the other two being a gypsy cob and a fell long manes are all the rage in our paddock 

I am sure she has put a little bit of weight on in the last week, but I will leave it another week before taking photo's.  The vet is back tomorrow and farrier at the weekend.

Thanks again for all the comments, all are much appreciated.


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## Puppy (30 June 2010)

Glad to hear she seems to be picking up  

If she's holding onto her coat, and seems rather dropped in her back, have you had her tested for cushings? Only the medication and implications it has on their diet are quite significant. My old girl was diagnosed earlier this year, so I know how it affects them and how she's improved since I've been able to act on her diagnosis. 

Best of luck with her. xx


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## MrsMozart (30 June 2010)

Sorry, haven't read all replies!

Saracens Releve and Equijewel . Small quantities that pack some good calories . They worked on the Dizz, who can be a complete pain to get weight on (tried everything else!), and Friend's TB (who's also had it cut back as he was starting to get a bit too much condition on ). Speak to Saracens, worth a try


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## meandmyself (30 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			Wow, I can't believe this post has provoked so many replies!

I am not in the least bit offended by any comments, I asked for opinions and I recieved them.

I rang the RSPCA after recieving the notice through the letter box and explained that Ellie was old and a tad stiff due to arthritis.  The lady on the telephone said she would pass my contact number and the information I had provided onto the officer who came out to see Ellie and as yet I haven't heard from her.

There is no point putting a notice on a gate as the field is only visable from a few back gardens.  I have a pretty good idea who reported me, someone I have had problems with previously and who would like the horses off the land.

Ellie is groomed daily but holds her coat.  She has actually lost a fair bit more now and her summer coat is very very shiny and healthy looking.  She hates having her mane pulled and I do trim it occasionly but with the other two being a gypsy cob and a fell long manes are all the rage in our paddock 

I am sure she has put a little bit of weight on in the last week, but I will leave it another week before taking photo's.  The vet is back tomorrow and farrier at the weekend.

Thanks again for all the comments, all are much appreciated.
		
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Have you had her tested for crushings/ insulin resistance? The fact that she's hanging onto her coat makes me wonder.


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## dressedkez (30 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			Wow, I can't believe this post has provoked so many replies!

I am not in the least bit offended by any comments, I asked for opinions and I recieved them.

I rang the RSPCA after recieving the notice through the letter box and explained that Ellie was old and a tad stiff due to arthritis.  The lady on the telephone said she would pass my contact number and the information I had provided onto the officer who came out to see Ellie and as yet I haven't heard from her.

There is no point putting a notice on a gate as the field is only visable from a few back gardens.  I have a pretty good idea who reported me, someone I have had problems with previously and who would like the horses off the land.

Ellie is groomed daily but holds her coat.  She has actually lost a fair bit more now and her summer coat is very very shiny and healthy looking.  She hates having her mane pulled and I do trim it occasionly but with the other two being a gypsy cob and a fell long manes are all the rage in our paddock 

I am sure she has put a little bit of weight on in the last week, but I will leave it another week before taking photo's.  The vet is back tomorrow and farrier at the weekend.

Thanks again for all the comments, all are much appreciated.
		
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Well admiration to you for sticking with this, and I was one of those who said that I didn't think that she looked that bad! Although apols when I posted that I had forgotten what sex she was and referred to her as 'it' and maybe 'beast' that was only because I scanned masses of posts V quickly, not because I wanted to dehumanise / dehorse her!
You are her owner, and you need to trust to YOUR instinct when she no longer has quality of life.......Personally, and this is of no criticism to you, as I understand from the flack I got from my original post, that you are a regular on here, and that you and Ellie are well known, and to an extent well loved.......but do you really need to confer with everyone out there in cyber space to have a gut feeling of what is right for your horse? I mean after receiving all these posts (and is this a record for H&H Forum) how do you really feel about the way forward for you and your horse?


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## MrsElle (30 June 2010)

dressedkez, I think that sometimes I feel the need for justification of my decisions, just to ensure they are right.  Unless Ellie bangs some serious weight on in the coming weeks then this will be her last summer   This was/is my gut instinct but I needed confirmation that I was doing the right thing by her.  Although selfishly I would love her to be here for several years to come I have to do what is best for Ellie.


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## meandmyself (30 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			dressedkez, I think that sometimes I feel the need for justification of my decisions, just to ensure they are right.  Unless Ellie bangs some serious weight on in the coming weeks then this will be her last summer   This was/is my gut instinct but I needed confirmation that I was doing the right thing by her.  Although selfishly I would love her to be here for several years to come I have to do what is best for Ellie.
		
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I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a pain, but have you had her tested for crushings/ insulin resistance? The fact that she's hanging onto her coat makes me wonder.

(Reposted because I wasn't sure if you saw it the first time. Sorry if you've answered this elsewhere in the thread- I don't want to scan through all of the replies.  )


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## MrsElle (30 June 2010)

She has always held onto her coat longer than most, but definately hasn't got cushings   She is almost winter coat free now and looks lovely and shiny!


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## dozzie (30 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			dressedkez, I think that sometimes I feel the need for justification of my decisions, just to ensure they are right.  Unless Ellie bangs some serious weight on in the coming weeks then this will be her last summer   This was/is my gut instinct but I needed confirmation that I was doing the right thing by her.  Although selfishly I would love her to be here for several years to come I have to do what is best for Ellie.
		
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I havent replied up to now but with you all the way. I am in the same boat with two oldies. It is hard.


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## dressedkez (30 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			dressedkez, I think that sometimes I feel the need for justification of my decisions, just to ensure they are right.  Unless Ellie bangs some serious weight on in the coming weeks then this will be her last summer   This was/is my gut instinct but I needed confirmation that I was doing the right thing by her.  Although selfishly I would love her to be here for several years to come I have to do what is best for Ellie.
		
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Yes of course you do, and if this is your way of dealing with this, then who am I too criticise, I am sure that based on the posts here, and your own instinct that you will do the right thing, and the right thing by your mare.  It is good that for you, you wanted to take soundings, which you have had aplenty.


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## meandmyself (30 June 2010)

MrsElle said:



			She has always held onto her coat longer than most, but definately hasn't got cushings   She is almost winter coat free now and looks lovely and shiny!
		
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Might still be worth getting her tested though?  I don't think there's any way to really know unless you get a negative test. And if it did come back positive, then you could change her management, which might give you more time with her.


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## Puppy (1 July 2010)

MrsElle said:



			She has always held onto her coat longer than most, but definately hasn't got cushings   She is almost winter coat free now and looks lovely and shiny!
		
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So, just to clarify, she has been tested?


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## Tinseltoes (1 July 2010)

You should get her tested???????????


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## flash1 (1 July 2010)

I know its hard when they get old and sometimes hard to keep weight on. regarding cushings, they dont always have a thick coat my old mare was fouund to have it when she got laminitis but she had and always had had a lovely coat and she also looked good for her age. It wold be worth having her tested maybe if she has not been already.

Hope she improves.


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## Amymay (1 July 2010)

You should get her tested???????????
		
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Why????


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## rosie fronfelen (1 July 2010)

isn't it time to put this thread to bed? poor Ellie has had soooo many differing views so i think shes had more than her share of advice, dont you all agree?


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## Amymay (1 July 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			isn't it time to put this thread to bed? poor Ellie has had soooo many differing views so i think shes had more than her share of advice, dont you all agree?
		
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Not one person has had a go at Ellie.

I think it's been a really useful discussion about 'oldie's', when it's time to say goodbye, responsibilities, perceptions, condition etc.


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## rosie fronfelen (1 July 2010)

god, cant you read what others write! did i say that anyone had had a "go" at Ellie- no!!considering that there have been 20+ pages to this thread i think Ellie and her owner have had enough advice to run the WHW.yes, the discussions will have been useful and constructive, but surely she will have read enough now, and it has to be her own decision in the end, and i dont imagine that she is unknowledgable herself!


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## Berkeley (1 July 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			god, cant you read what others write! did i say that anyone had had a "go" at Ellie- no!!considering that there have been 20+ pages to this thread i think Ellie and her owner have had enough advice to run the WHW.yes, the discussions will have been useful and constructive, but surely she will have read enough now, and it has to be her own decision in the end, and i dont imagine that she is unknowledgable herself!
		
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Handbags!


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## rosie fronfelen (1 July 2010)

dont use them!!


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## Berkeley (1 July 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			dont use them!!
		
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Is that a direction or an affirmation of your non use? If the former, I would contest as I have many. 3 Jimmy Choo, 1 Prada and 1 Fendi. Although the one thing that vexes me about my Prada bag is that its white - and gets particularly dirty


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## rosie fronfelen (1 July 2010)

i just dont bother with them, if i do i leave the bloody things everywhere-i dont go out much anyway so i find them a pointless bit of kit!! so----- no handbags at dawn, sorry!


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## Amymay (1 July 2010)

god, cant you read what others write! did i say that anyone had had a "go" at Ellie- no
		
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Of course, you are right - and I apologise.

I was really trying to say that I found this an informative and interesting post, and was interested in seeing it progress.  And it has moved on in places considerably from the OP, which many posts do - and so should not be seen as having a go at Ellie, more an expansion of the discussion.

Perhaps then there is a need for a new post to start on the good management of old horses - and where to draw the line.


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## Berkeley (1 July 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			i just dont bother with them, if i do i leave the bloody things everywhere-i dont go out much anyway so i find them a pointless bit of kit!! so----- no handbags at dawn, sorry!
		
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Saddlebags.....?


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## DAA83 (1 July 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			isn't it time to put this thread to bed? poor Ellie has had soooo many differing views so i think shes had more than her share of advice, dont you all agree?
		
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If I'm not mistaken Ellie is the name of the horse. Now admittedly I can't be bothered to read all 21 pages, but I can't imagine many people on HH have actually been advising Ellie on how to look after herself, furthermore, I doubt MrsElle allows Ellie to surf the web especially with those hefty sized hooves!


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## Megan_T (1 July 2010)

I've read the first couple of pages of this thread and, seeing how many pages it had become, I suspected it had turned into a bit of a bitchy thread at some point.

Shame.


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## meandmyself (1 July 2010)

amymay said:



			Why????
		
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Because if Ellie does have crushings/is pre-crushings, management can play a huge part in keeping her well and comfortable. I've have her tested if she was mine, even if it was just for the peace of mind knowing that she didn't have crushings.


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## Berkeley (1 July 2010)

DAA83 said:



			If I'm not mistaken Ellie is the name of the horse. Now admittedly I can't be bothered to read all 21 pages, but I can't imagine many people on HH have actually been advising Ellie on how to look after herself, furthermore, I doubt MrsElle allows Ellie to surf the web especially with those hefty sized hooves!
		
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Absolutely PMSL


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## rosie fronfelen (1 July 2010)

DAA83 said:



			If I'm not mistaken Ellie is the name of the horse. Now admittedly I can't be bothered to read all 21 pages, but I can't imagine many people on HH have actually been advising Ellie on how to look after herself, furthermore, I doubt MrsElle allows Ellie to surf the web especially with those hefty sized hooves!
		
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i know that-whats the point of nit picking- bit juvenile.


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## rosie fronfelen (1 July 2010)

ok you guys, have your fun and kicks- nothing else to do or write??


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## rosie fronfelen (1 July 2010)

amymay said:



			Of course, you are right - and I apologise.

I was really trying to say that I found this an informative and interesting post, and was interested in seeing it progress.  And it has moved on in places considerably from the OP, which many posts do - and so should not be seen as having a go at Ellie, more an expansion of the discussion.

Perhaps then there is a need for a new post to start on the good management of old horses - and where to draw the line.
		
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thank you Amymay.


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## conniegirl (1 July 2010)

I have not waded through the 22 odd pages of this post.

To answer the original question, yes as a passer by who did not know the history of this mare I would report her. I would rather report her and then find out she was just old and thin but well cared for as opposed as opposed to not report her, spend all week worrying about it and potentialy find that it was a neglected horse by seeing a collapsed or dead horse in a field.

Knowing her history now I would say you need a sign up on the gate to stop people worrying. As a passer by with no knowlege of the horse, seeing her I would be worried but after seeing a sign explaining why I would not report her because I would know she is being cared for.

As for the care of old ponies maybe I can help with the feeding, currently the youngest horse on my yard is 20 years old, the oldest is over 30 and looks similar to your mare (although he is not artheritic and he has no teeth what so ever).

The decision has already been made with my 30 yearold that we will not be putting him through anouther winter. It would not be fair to him. 
I am a great believer in 'Better a month too early then an hour too late' Let them pass before they start suffering.

That said I have a little pony who a few years ago looked like yours does and was 22 years old. We made the decision to have him PTS at the end of summer as well, we did get his teeth done and he had one pulled out. Then on the reccomendation of the vet we tweeked his feeds. He (a 13.2hh pony) was put onto the following feed regime: a scoop of stud mix, a scoop of topline cubes, some blue chip and an obsene amount of flax oil in his feed and fed 4 times daily. By the end of summer he was glowing and looked fantastic so we kept him going. He is still going years later, has put on tons of weight, did not struggle through winter and is now out showing again.

This is he last weekend, he is now 27.











Dont give up on her just yet, get her teeth done, change her feeds (bare in mind it will take at least a month for any visable results to show).
Perhaps give her a tidy up, trim or pull her mane etc. Make it obvious that someone comes regularly and is caring for her (a sign etc).
Good luck


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## minesadouble (1 July 2010)

OK - haven't read all of the previous posts but in answer to the original question - no I would not call the RSPCA (ever actually but that's a different story) or any other welfare organisation.

If you see a field where a few horses are kept, on decent grass or with fodder available and they all look well but there is one that looks poor then it's a reasonable assumption that the problem is with the horse itself rather than the way it is kept. Have a word with the owner if it concerns you to that extent.

Very elderly horses always change shape and in their latter years may carry little condition - if they are still enjoying life should they be PTS because they are offensive to the eye??

This is a subject close to my heart as next door to our farm there was an elderly gentleman who had bred fell ponies for about 50 years. He was in 70s and still had about half a dozen mares in a field adjoining one of ours. One of these mares was in her late 20s, she was lean and dippy backed - her shape was probably exaggerated due to her spending her life as a broodmare. She always looked happy and healthy - just thin but by no means a walking skeleton.

We took on some liveries about this time and they used to go on about how thin this poor mare was. Myself and my OH explained she was an ancient broodmare so was bound to look a bit ropey. Soon after someone reported this mare to the RSPCA, they visited and said all was fine but the old man was devastated someone had reported him and had her put down a week later. I was absolutely furious - it still makes me mad to think about it now!!

I'm certain it was one of our liveries that reported him - the fields are not visible fom the road or even from the farm itself. They were told in no uncertain that if we found out who it was they would be thrown off the farm immediatley. Needless to say we never found out!

If one of my horses gets to their twilight years and begins to lose weight but is otherwise happy it will not be getting PTS for being thin!


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## ElaineD (1 July 2010)

Don't give up on her yet as someone else said try her on other feeds. We have a 35 yr old who we bred and she does really well on 16+ mix, chaff and Kwik Beet she has only lost one tooth and still rules the roost here. I also had a TB Charlie who I got when he was 18 he raced until he was 12 then was passed from pillar to post, he had a serious accident when he was hit by a car when he was 29 and I thought I had lost him but he pulled through and I was still riding him until he was 35 as he loved it, the last couple of years I started having trouble keeping weight on him so tried him on stud cubes,chaff and beet and he really put weight on again. I lost him at nearly 38 with a heart attack which was a real shock as he looked so well so don't give up just yet.


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## dressedkez (1 July 2010)

Megan_T said:



			I've read the first couple of pages of this thread and, seeing how many pages it had become, I suspected it had turned into a bit of a bitchy thread at some point.

Shame.
		
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I have almost lost the will to live......'bitchy thread' those were aimed at those who thought that maybe Ellie, whilst thin, was possibly not the thinnest horse we had ever seen, albeit a youngster (and wow he / she got loads of flack for suggesting that yongsters could get skinny....) and mine, many, many pages previously, who dared suggest that all those who were rushing off to the RSPCA were a bit OTT - OK, I did use the word 'bonkers' - bad move om my part...!
The Ms Ellie - who we are feeling truly sympathetic about, as she owns the much loved horse, who has been the subject of in excess of 22 pages of comment, told me that she needed the advice of many, many complete strangers to enforce her own view that maybe Ellie was coming to the end of her life, and in the Autumn, might be destined to meet her maker?
Yes, of course very sympathetic about those who need to make that ultimate choice - but like politicians, if one opens one self up for public scrutiny, then sadly reap the consequences. 
OK guys, I am thinking that I might have to pull a horses mane tomorrow to smarten him up to prior to selling him - it will undoubtably hurt him ( a bit, I expect we will try and exercise him before hand) but I would value your views on whether this is a wise thing to do?? Rubbish, Of course I don't - and if he gets a leg problem tomorrow from galloping around
 the field on rock hard ground, where he might do a tendon, am I going to consult with you guys before I call the vet? No! That is why finally I have HAD IT WITH THIS POST!!!
Ms Ellie, finally  - IT IS UP TO YOU - if your mare, is thin but happy keep her going and ignore the RSPCA jibes, if her quality of life is **** - MAKE THAT DECISION......what would you do if she was your elderly dog / cat / grandmother........She is not the latter, you have the power and for goodness sake the knowledge you should have as a responsible horse owner, that should empower you to make that decison....it is a bit different from what type of bit, should I try on a horse that pulls etc. etc. Is it not??
Rant over......!! Let the hate mail begin!


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## Munchkin (1 July 2010)

The mare is being PTS within a few days, so, this bitchfest can be put to rest also.


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## Spudlet (1 July 2010)

The OP posted an update earlier, and very sadly, on the advice of her vet, it has been decided that for the welfare of the mare it is best that she is pts

I think that the mare is very lucky to have an owner that has done, and is doing, the very best she can by her all the way.


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## saddlesore (1 July 2010)

Munchkin said:



			The mare is being PTS within a few days, so, this bitchfest can be put to rest also.
		
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 did I miss something?

Sorry - just saw Spudlets post. So sorry OP, hugs and thoughts to you and your girl x


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## Amymay (2 July 2010)

The mare is being PTS within a few days, so, this bitchfest can be put to rest also.
		
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There has been no bitchfest.........


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## Berkeley (2 July 2010)

amymay said:



			There has been no bitchfest.........

Click to expand...

I agree.

I am also very sorry to hear that PTS is the best way forward. Brave decision - and no doubt a good one.


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