# Ragwort all over field - disgusted by HHO member!



## **Dandelion** (24 August 2011)

I had to start this account to say I'm completely disgusted by a *member of this forum *whose field where her horses are kept is full of ragwort! I'm not talking about a few here, it's covered in it and there plants are quite mature so have been growing a long while. This person/poster must be such a lazy slob it's unbelievable, and to think I used to quite like her... Although she's one of these posters who claims to know everything (lol could be 1000+ posters on here) and that no one takes care of horses better than her - evidently not!

Well thats my rant over. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. She needs reporting - do I go to the RSPCA? What can they do?


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## Jesstickle (24 August 2011)

It's probably me.  I got told off a couple of weeks ago for mine by someone one here. I didn't think it was that bad!

No idea. Report to council as it is legally meant to be taken care of?


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## dumpling (24 August 2011)

I think it's DEFRA you report ragwort to.


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## PennyJ (24 August 2011)

It would be much better if you kept your petty arguments with another individual off this forum I think.

For what its worth, report away, I doubt anyone will actually do anything, but if it makes you feel better, then go ahead...


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## rockysmum (24 August 2011)

Isn't joining with a new user name to start threads like this generally the behaviour of TROLLS


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## Devonshire dumpling (24 August 2011)

Sigh, why didn't you keep your name???? if you're gonna rant just do it.. but to be honest what other ppl do is their business .... photos don't always tell the true story!  Too many ppl on this forum sticking their sticky beaks in!..... Theres more than one way to skin a horse


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## skint1 (24 August 2011)

Well, I know it's not me but I always feel so guilty when I see this type of thing!


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## devilwoman (24 August 2011)

why change your name, surely if you have something to say you could have just said it ?


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## Ibblebibble (24 August 2011)

perhaps it would have been better to have a word via pm with the person concerned under your usual forum name, if they tell you to go forth then by all means contact defra or the bhs welfare officer.  sometimes the quiet approach gets a better response than blasting someone on a public forum.


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## DragonSlayer (24 August 2011)

Report it to Defra and the council, if neither do anything about it, then don't stress over it.


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## Devonshire dumpling (24 August 2011)

OK I will give  a constructive reply after my initial response of annoyance, here are some ragwort facts for everyone to read:-

  Although Ragworts can be a significant nuisance to horse keepers, these species are a very important source of nectar and pollen. About 150 species of insects, such as bees, flies and butterflies, visit the plant. Therefore, even it were possible, eradicating the plant is not a desirable option. We will have to find other ways to protect our livestock. There are no easy solutions to the Ragwort problem, but that doesnt mean that there is nothing we can do.
   The aim of this website is to distinguish facts from myths by using a scientific approach based on research and advice from biologists, toxicologists, and other experts. In this way, we want to determine the nature and scale of the problem that Ragwort presents to our horses and other livestock. In this way, I would like to contribute to a solution of the Ragwort problem; as a horse lover AND as a Ragwort enthusiast.

Q: Is it true that horses usually do not eat fresh Ragwort?
A: Yes, that is right. Only in exceptional circumstances or when there is a food shortage, horses will eat fresh Ragwort. Horses, however, don't recognize dried Ragwort plants as poisonous and contaminated hay may cause Ragwort poisoning. More info

Q: Will my horse get ill when it occasionally eats a mouthful of ragwort?
A; No, incidentally ingesting small amounts of Ragwort will not result in illness. If, however, horses eat several kilograms of Ragwort a day or small amounts for extended periods, this may lead to irreparable liver damage. More info

Q: Do the toxins in Ragworts accumulate in a horses body?
A: No. The toxins (pyrrolizidine alkaloids) are excreted within 24-48 hours. If an animal consumes pyrrolidizine alkaloids regularly though, liver damage will accumulate and the animal will show signs of illness. More info

Q: Is it true there are several hundreds of victims each year?
A: The exact number of victims of Ragwort poisoning is unknown. The symptoms of Ragwort poisoning cannot be distinguished from other liver disorders and poisoning can only be confirmed by means of a post-mortem liver exam. These exams are, however, not common practice, and reliable data on the number of victims are therefore not available. There could be more than hundreds of victims, but there could also be much fewer. More info

Q: Will touching a Ragwort plant result in alkaloid poisoning?
A: No. Ragwort poisoning takes place in the digestive system. In the plant, pyrrolidizine alkaloids are stored in their non-toxic form. Only if these substances end up in the digestive system, they will be converted into their toxic form. There is no scientific evidence that skin contact leads to the conversion of non-toxic alkaloids into their toxic form. Some people experience an allergic reaction after skin contact (compositae dermatitis), but this response is cause by sesquiterpene lactones rather than pyrrolizidine alkaloids. These sesquiterpene lactones are common chemical compounds of members of the Sunflower family. More info

Q: Are all Ragwort species poisonous?
A: Yes, all Dutch Ragworts contain pyrrolizidine alkaloids. These are also found in Comfrey and Butterbur.

Q: Why is Ragwort fairly common in horse pastures?
A: Ragwort needs a bare spot to germinate. Horses easily churn up the ground when running, and graze the grass very short, thereby easily creating open spots suitable for seed germination. More info

Q: Why is Ragwort nowadays more common in the Netherlands than before?
A: Ragworts are presumably more common in the Netherlands and neighboring countries than 30 years ago, because the number of suitable habitats has increased due to large-scale renewal of infrastructure, building activities, and efforts to give agricultural land back to nature. In addition, Ragwort seeds have been used to enrich roadsides. There is no evidence that Ragworts have a different habitat preference or better dispersal capabilities than in the days when this species was much less common in the Netherlands. More info

Q: How can I recognize Ragwort?
A: Ragwort is a biennial. In the first it only has leaves organized in a rosettes. These can be found throughout most parts of the year. Ragwort usually flowers in the second year (June till October). After the plant has produced seeds, it dies. The leaves of Ragwort are pinnately lobed. Flowerheads often occur in clusters called corymbs. They are yellow with ray and disk flowers. Click here for pictures of Ragwort and other Ragwort species.

Q: I have Ragwort plants growing in my horse's field, what can I do?
A: Ragwort is difficult to eradicate and most methods to remove the plants, such as pulling by hand, mowing, and using herbicides, may have increase rather than decrease the number of Ragwort plants at a given site. The best way is probably to prevent ragwort from establishing in a pasture. Good pasture management is therefore of utmost importance. More info

Q: Is it true that the toxin in Ragworts can poison a whole bale of hay?
A: No. The toxins remain in the plant and don't 'contaminate' the rest of the hay. It is advisable though not to use the rest of the bale for consumption, because undetected parts of the plant may have remained in the hay and can potentially lead to Ragwort poisoning.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (24 August 2011)

You have a few choices
1. Speak face to face with said person
2. Butt out & leave them to get on with it
3. Report them to DEFRA/council

Does their land adjoin yours? In which case, 1 & 3 come into play
Does it affect you otherwise?

I really can't see what you get off on by having a new name to try to 'shame' someone on here for the way they keep their land


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## Ibblebibble (24 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			I have actually done that. I got little response in the way of actual care.
		
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then take the next step and report them, unless you're prepared to stick your neck on the line and name them and substantiate your claims then you can't expect people to just take your word and lynch someone.
i could just as easily claim you keep your horses in ragwort infested fields and start a witch hunt, unfair and hopefully untrue but you must be able to understand why people aren't just going to take your word for it


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## RatzFatz (24 August 2011)

Defra will pass you over to Natural England and l can honestly say they will do something about it.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (24 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			I'm worried about the safety of a number of horses.
		
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are they that short on food that they are reduced to eating ragwort 24/7?
See D/Dumplings post about cumulative etc.

Or is this sour grapes about something else in a bigger picture?


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## jhoward (24 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			I'm worried about the safety of a number of horses.
		
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then stop moaning and go and offer to help pull it out?


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## Devonshire dumpling (24 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			Thank you, DEFRA is the first stop then 



Go away.
		
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this made me LOL alot!  hehe


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## The Fuzzy Furry (24 August 2011)

jhoward said:



			then stop moaning and go and offer to help pull it out? 

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this ^^


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## The Fuzzy Furry (24 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			Go away.
		
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Thanks, how rude, you ask for advice & then react in a manner which appears I hit the nail on the head.

Why not eave this lady to her own problems, or if it is a days work - then offer to help out, maybe she is unable to remove it herself.

Please, dont post asking advice under a 'new' name & then behave in a playground manner when suggestions are given


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## Dancing Queen (24 August 2011)

hello - if you feel that strongly about it - why hide your normal username - people would have a lot more respect for you and your argument should you grow a pair!

i understand your wanting to get the situation sorted but there must be a better way than on a public forum.


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## jhoward (24 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			1. It would take the best part of a whole day (if not longer)
2. It is not my responsibility.
3. It will grow back - and then what? I go and help again? Don't think so.
4. Take your bitter attitude elsewhere.
		
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pmsl. you come across as the sort of person we all want as a friend, so caring about the horse. well done






























NOT


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## Ibblebibble (24 August 2011)

well you obviously wanted some reaction otherwise you wouldn't have posted, you could easily have just asked under your usual user name who to report a field full of ragwort to without mentioning it was a hho member. as you're not getting the response you want you're resorting to insults, the only thing you'll achieve is making people wonder what your gripe is with the hho member. I'm sure you're enjoying the attention tho so i'll leave you to it.


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## rockysmum (24 August 2011)

This wouldn't happen to be about a charity would it.

If it is I take back my troll comment


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## Dancing Queen (24 August 2011)

testosterone helps.


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## rubysmum (24 August 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			OK I will give  a constructive reply after my initial response of annoyance, here are some ragwort facts for everyone to read:-

  Although Ragworts can be a significant nuisance to horse keepers, these species are a very important source of nectar and pollen. About 150 species of insects, such as bees, flies and butterflies, visit the plant. Therefore, even it were possible, eradicating the plant is not a desirable option. We will have to find other ways to protect our livestock. There are no easy solutions to the Ragwort problem, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that there is nothing we can do.
   The aim of this website is to distinguish facts from myths by using a scientific approach based on research and advice from biologists, toxicologists, and other experts. In this way, we want to determine the nature and scale of the problem that Ragwort presents to our horses and other livestock. In this way, I would like to contribute to a solution of the Ragwort problem; as a horse lover AND as a Ragwort enthusiast.

Q: Is it true that horses usually do not eat fresh Ragwort?
A: Yes, that is right. Only in exceptional circumstances or when there is a food shortage, horses will eat fresh Ragwort. Horses, however, don't recognize dried Ragwort plants as poisonous and contaminated hay may cause Ragwort poisoning. More info

Q: Will my horse get ill when it occasionally eats a mouthful of ragwort?
A; No, incidentally ingesting small amounts of Ragwort will not result in illness. If, however, horses eat several kilograms of Ragwort a day or small amounts for extended periods, this may lead to irreparable liver damage. More info

Q: Do the toxins in Ragworts accumulate in a horse&#8217;s body?
A: No. The toxins (pyrrolizidine alkaloids) are excreted within 24-48 hours. If an animal consumes pyrrolidizine alkaloids regularly though, liver damage will accumulate and the animal will show signs of illness. More info

Q: Is it true there are several hundreds of victims each year?
A: The exact number of victims of Ragwort poisoning is unknown. The symptoms of Ragwort poisoning cannot be distinguished from other liver disorders and poisoning can only be confirmed by means of a post-mortem liver exam. These exams are, however, not common practice, and reliable data on the number of victims are therefore not available. There could be more than hundreds of victims, but there could also be much fewer. More info

Q: Will touching a Ragwort plant result in alkaloid poisoning?
A: No. Ragwort poisoning takes place in the digestive system. In the plant, pyrrolidizine alkaloids are stored in their non-toxic form. Only if these substances end up in the digestive system, they will be converted into their toxic form. There is no scientific evidence that skin contact leads to the conversion of non-toxic alkaloids into their toxic form. Some people experience an allergic reaction after skin contact (compositae dermatitis), but this response is cause by sesquiterpene lactones rather than pyrrolizidine alkaloids. These sesquiterpene lactones are common chemical compounds of members of the Sunflower family. More info

Q: Are all Ragwort species poisonous?
A: Yes, all Dutch Ragworts contain pyrrolizidine alkaloids. These are also found in Comfrey and Butterbur.

Q: Why is Ragwort fairly common in horse pastures?
A: Ragwort needs a bare spot to germinate. Horses easily churn up the ground when running, and graze the grass very short, thereby easily creating open spots suitable for seed germination. More info

Q: Why is Ragwort nowadays more common in the Netherlands than before?
A: Ragworts are presumably more common in the Netherlands and neighboring countries than 30 years ago, because the number of suitable habitats has increased due to large-scale renewal of infrastructure, building activities, and efforts to give agricultural land back to nature. In addition, Ragwort seeds have been used to enrich roadsides. There is no evidence that Ragworts have a different habitat preference or better dispersal capabilities than in the days when this species was much less common in the Netherlands. More info

Q: How can I recognize Ragwort?
A: Ragwort is a biennial. In the first it only has leaves organized in a rosettes. These can be found throughout most parts of the year. Ragwort usually flowers in the second year (June till October). After the plant has produced seeds, it dies. The leaves of Ragwort are pinnately lobed. Flowerheads often occur in clusters called corymbs. They are yellow with ray and disk flowers. Click here for pictures of Ragwort and other Ragwort species.

Q: I have Ragwort plants growing in my horse's field, what can I do?
A: Ragwort is difficult to eradicate and most methods to remove the plants, such as pulling by hand, mowing, and using herbicides, may have increase rather than decrease the number of Ragwort plants at a given site. The best way is probably to prevent ragwort from establishing in a pasture. Good pasture management is therefore of utmost importance. More info

Q: Is it true that the toxin in Ragworts can poison a whole bale of hay?
A: No. The toxins remain in the plant and don't 'contaminate' the rest of the hay. It is advisable though not to use the rest of the bale for consumption, because undetected parts of the plant may have remained in the hay and can potentially lead to Ragwort poisoning.
		
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whatever the back story to this actual thread [ which quite frankly, i deeply dis-interested in ] i just wanted to thank this poster for such a  useul  & informative response


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## Devonshire dumpling (24 August 2011)

rubysmum said:



			whatever the back story to this actual thread [ which quite frankly, i deeply dis-interested in ] i just wanted to thank this poster for such a  useul  & informative response

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Ahhh thankyou, i was being a bitch by googling this, but its all true!   Animals rarely eat poisonous plants unless we have processed it.. or if the animal is soooo damn hungry it has no choice, if they did do such things we would all be instinct!


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## RolyPolyPony (24 August 2011)

rubysmum said:



			whatever the back story to this actual thread [ which quite frankly, i deeply dis-interested in ] i just wanted to thank this poster for such a  useul  & informative response

Click to expand...

i agree with this  

Also, not sure exactly how true it is, but i was told that horses are more likely to eat ragwort when its dying as it gives off a sweet smell?


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## Fii (24 August 2011)

While I understand your concern,I don't understand why you could'nt post under your usual user name, you said you werent going to "out" the person concerned, so why hide?


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## DipseyDeb (24 August 2011)

I'm a little bit perplexed by some of the replies......ok so OP has assumed another user name and stressed that the post is about another HHO member....but if one of us had come on and had a rant about, say, some one we knew having a field full of ragwort, and were asking for advise on who to report it to...would we be calling them a troll or suggesesting they pull it up themselves, or would we be offering consructive advise (?)  The same advise my YO gave to me when I spoke to her about a field of horses near my friends yard, full of ragwort,......call Defra!   Just saying!!


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## cobmum (24 August 2011)

I am new to this forum and reading a thread like this is very disheartening. Ive joined this forum because i thought it would be helpfull, informative and fun and maybe i can give help and advise to others in an adult and respectful manner. 

This post shows very little respect or helpfull behaviour.

If this situation is worrying you so much then you would happily give up you time to help the HORSES not the forum member that you have an issue with.


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## JosieB (24 August 2011)

Whilst the big plants may be avoided by horses it is the smaller growing plants which are barely visable amongst grass which actually pose a bigger threat. The horse eats the grass and as the leaves are smaller the bitter taste is not so bad so they dont spit them out. By eating these they are getting the toxins in them albeit in smaller amounts but regularly which causes a build up.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (24 August 2011)

cobmum said:



			If this situation is worrying you so much then you would happily give up you time to help the HORSES not the forum member that you have an issue with.
		
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Nicely put cobmum 

(and welcome to the forum   - mostly is lovely here, you just have to filter out the mouldy chaff on occasions  )


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## Kellys Heroes (24 August 2011)

Get in touch with DEFRA.

Must add, I can't understand your way of expressing your concern for these animals....would it not have been possible just to say you are aware of a ragwort-ridden field and what could you do about it?? Why did you have to create a new name and stipulate it was a HHO member, surely you are aware of the reaction it would get? 

Very odd, I must say.
K x


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## Dobiegirl (24 August 2011)

See I dont see anything really wrong here, i suspect shes tried talking to the member and received no joy and in desperation is posting here to try and shame her into doing something.

It isnt how I would handle it but then we are all different ,feel free to disagree.

Happy to report we have had no ragwort on our land for years and years but found one on my lawn last week.


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## Mrs B (24 August 2011)

Hmm.

There's something familiar about the turn of phrase and the responses...

I may be wide of the mark, but it sounds like Skewby to me.

PS - Dobiegirl - yes - I found one HUGE plant on the farm, nowhere near any others and it seemed like one day it wasn't there, next it was. Not there now, though... Difficult to know what bin to put them in though - so they don't go to landfill...


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## Dobiegirl (24 August 2011)

Mrs B said:



			Hmm.

There's something familiar about the turn of phrase and the responses...

I may be wide of the mark, but it sounds like Skewby to me.
		
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Mrs B If you are right please ignore my post.


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## Kaylum (24 August 2011)

OP have you seen photos of their fields or do you them?  Just wondered.

Have to say though whoever it is, its part of horse ownership to keep the fields free of this.  I heard someone bought some hay and it had massive stalks of it in.


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## Fii (24 August 2011)

Mrs B said:



			Hmm.

There's something familiar about the turn of phrase and the responses...

I may be wide of the mark, but it sounds like Skewby to me.

PS - Dobiegirl - yes - I found one HUGE plant on the farm, nowhere near any others and it seemed like one day it wasn't there, next it was. Not there now, though... Difficult to know what bin to put them in though - so they don't go to landfill...
		
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HA! HA! if you'r right, you'll get a CSI badge.


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## horsegirl (24 August 2011)

Quote de cobmum

If this situation is worrying you so much then you would happily give up you time to help the HORSES not the forum member that you have an issue with.

Not everyone has the time to spend pulling up ragwort for other people


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## Mike007 (24 August 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			OK I will give  a constructive reply after my initial response of annoyance, here are some ragwort facts for everyone to read:-

  Although Ragworts can be a significant nuisance to horse keepers, these species are a very important source of nectar and pollen. About 150 species of insects, such as bees, flies and butterflies, visit the plant. Therefore, even it were possible, eradicating the plant is not a desirable option. We will have to find other ways to protect our livestock. There are no easy solutions to the Ragwort problem, but that doesnt mean that there is nothing we can do.
   The aim of this website is to distinguish facts from myths by using a scientific approach based on research and advice from biologists, toxicologists, and other experts. In this way, we want to determine the nature and scale of the problem that Ragwort presents to our horses and other livestock. In this way, I would like to contribute to a solution of the Ragwort problem; as a horse lover AND as a Ragwort enthusiast.

Q: Is it true that horses usually do not eat fresh Ragwort?
A: Yes, that is right. Only in exceptional circumstances or when there is a food shortage, horses will eat fresh Ragwort. Horses, however, don't recognize dried Ragwort plants as poisonous and contaminated hay may cause Ragwort poisoning. More info

Q: Will my horse get ill when it occasionally eats a mouthful of ragwort?
A; No, incidentally ingesting small amounts of Ragwort will not result in illness. If, however, horses eat several kilograms of Ragwort a day or small amounts for extended periods, this may lead to irreparable liver damage. More info

Q: Do the toxins in Ragworts accumulate in a horses body?
A: No. The toxins (pyrrolizidine alkaloids) are excreted within 24-48 hours. If an animal consumes pyrrolidizine alkaloids regularly though, liver damage will accumulate and the animal will show signs of illness. More info

Q: Is it true there are several hundreds of victims each year?
A: The exact number of victims of Ragwort poisoning is unknown. The symptoms of Ragwort poisoning cannot be distinguished from other liver disorders and poisoning can only be confirmed by means of a post-mortem liver exam. These exams are, however, not common practice, and reliable data on the number of victims are therefore not available. There could be more than hundreds of victims, but there could also be much fewer. More info

Q: Will touching a Ragwort plant result in alkaloid poisoning?
A: No. Ragwort poisoning takes place in the digestive system. In the plant, pyrrolidizine alkaloids are stored in their non-toxic form. Only if these substances end up in the digestive system, they will be converted into their toxic form. There is no scientific evidence that skin contact leads to the conversion of non-toxic alkaloids into their toxic form. Some people experience an allergic reaction after skin contact (compositae dermatitis), but this response is cause by sesquiterpene lactones rather than pyrrolizidine alkaloids. These sesquiterpene lactones are common chemical compounds of members of the Sunflower family. More info

Q: Are all Ragwort species poisonous?
A: Yes, all Dutch Ragworts contain pyrrolizidine alkaloids. These are also found in Comfrey and Butterbur.

Q: Why is Ragwort fairly common in horse pastures?
A: Ragwort needs a bare spot to germinate. Horses easily churn up the ground when running, and graze the grass very short, thereby easily creating open spots suitable for seed germination. More info

Q: Why is Ragwort nowadays more common in the Netherlands than before?
A: Ragworts are presumably more common in the Netherlands and neighboring countries than 30 years ago, because the number of suitable habitats has increased due to large-scale renewal of infrastructure, building activities, and efforts to give agricultural land back to nature. In addition, Ragwort seeds have been used to enrich roadsides. There is no evidence that Ragworts have a different habitat preference or better dispersal capabilities than in the days when this species was much less common in the Netherlands. More info

Q: How can I recognize Ragwort?
A: Ragwort is a biennial. In the first it only has leaves organized in a rosettes. These can be found throughout most parts of the year. Ragwort usually flowers in the second year (June till October). After the plant has produced seeds, it dies. The leaves of Ragwort are pinnately lobed. Flowerheads often occur in clusters called corymbs. They are yellow with ray and disk flowers. Click here for pictures of Ragwort and other Ragwort species.

Q: I have Ragwort plants growing in my horse's field, what can I do?
A: Ragwort is difficult to eradicate and most methods to remove the plants, such as pulling by hand, mowing, and using herbicides, may have increase rather than decrease the number of Ragwort plants at a given site. The best way is probably to prevent ragwort from establishing in a pasture. Good pasture management is therefore of utmost importance. More info

Q: Is it true that the toxin in Ragworts can poison a whole bale of hay?
A: No. The toxins remain in the plant and don't 'contaminate' the rest of the hay. It is advisable though not to use the rest of the bale for consumption, because undetected parts of the plant may have remained in the hay and can potentially lead to Ragwort poisoning.
		
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Great and constructive post, but please tell me what an obviously sane person like you is doing in this asylum Thanks again for your post .


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## SusieT (24 August 2011)

regarding the 'useful' information-where exxactly is that sourced from? To me it reads like total rubbish designed to excuse having ragwort in the fields.


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## Puppy (24 August 2011)

Mrs B said:



			PS - Dobiegirl - yes - I found one HUGE plant on the farm, nowhere near any others and it seemed like one day it wasn't there, next it was. Not there now, though... Difficult to know what bin to put them in though - so they don't go to landfill...
		
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I'm relieved to say that I only get quite literally a few per year sprouting in my field, but I tend to pull them up, put them in a feed bag, wait until they've dried out, and then burn them.


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## Mrs B (24 August 2011)

Mike007 said:



			Great and constructive post, but please tell me what an obviously sane person like you is doing in this asylum Thanks again for your post .
		
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I'm sane, I tell you. Really, completely 100%. Honest injun.

I must be: every time my endowment company writes to me, telling me there might be a teensy-weensey bit of a shortfall in the payout predicted 23 years ago, and could I send them some more money, just in case; I do.


See? Sane, me.


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## Mrs B (24 August 2011)

Puppy said:



			I'm relieved to say that I only get quite literally a few per year sprouting in my field, but I tend to pull them up, put them in a feed bag, wait until they've dried out, and then burn them.
		
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Good idea, Puppy.


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## MerrySherryRider (24 August 2011)

As the OP has already contacted the person with a field full of ragwort, the next step is to contact Defra, who have a  complaints form http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife-management/weeds-act-1959/

 For what its worth, although it would be neighbourly to pull up the ragwort for the horseowner, it wouldn't solve the problem, unless she had the time to repeatedly clear the fields for the lazy owner. 
The Surrey CC website offers some very good information that perhaps this person might be interested in; http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsite/sccwspages.nsf/LookupWebPagesByTITLE_RTF/Ragwort?opendocument


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## Jesstickle (24 August 2011)

SusieT said:



			regarding the 'useful' information-where exxactly is that sourced from? To me it reads like total rubbish designed to excuse having ragwort in the fields.
		
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Well why don't you post the information that contradicts it and cite your source and then perhaps we can all make up our minds. FWIW it sounds totally reasonable to me.


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## sprite1978 (24 August 2011)

SusieT said:



			regarding the 'useful' information-where exxactly is that sourced from? To me it reads like total rubbish designed to excuse having ragwort in the fields.
		
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You cant call the "useful" advice rubbish. If you know why these points are wrong, explain. Assuming you do have enough knowledge to disscredit it!


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## MerrySherryRider (24 August 2011)

SusieT said:



			regarding the 'useful' information-where exxactly is that sourced from? To me it reads like total rubbish designed to excuse having ragwort in the fields.
		
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Glad you thought that. I did too actually.


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## JFTDWS (24 August 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Well why don't you post the information that contradicts it and cite your source and then perhaps we can all make up our minds. FWIW it sounds totally reasonable to me.
		
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that's my line!


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## Fii (24 August 2011)

sprite1978 said:



			You cant call the "useful" advice rubbish. If you know why these points are wrong, explain. Assuming you do have enough knowledge to disscredit it!
		
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From what i can see this has been taken from a dutch website, although i know nothing about the species that grow there, i know that there are about seven species of ragwort (not including groundsel) that grow in Britain, and onley one of those that apears to be poisenous to stock.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (24 August 2011)

OP if your not willing to name usernames (Or use your own) then im afraid I dont really see the point of this thread.

DD - great post

Person who called it an excuse to have ragwort - i take it you dont have it or have to pull it??? When the council managed grass verges have it and farmers next to you dont eradicate it it is hard to, its too bitter for horses to want to eat but they will if there is nothing else or its hidden in hay.


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## cremedemonthe (24 August 2011)

SusieT said:



			regarding the 'useful' information-where exxactly is that sourced from? To me it reads like total rubbish designed to excuse having ragwort in the fields.
		
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Agree with this


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## SusieT (24 August 2011)

'You cant call the "useful" advice rubbish. If you know why these points are wrong, explain. Assuming you do have enough knowledge to disscredit it! '
Look at the source. Think abnout where that has come from. A)A dutch website
B)A random googled website.
Obviously not by anyone who has seen the damage done by ragwort. Some of us have busy job and not time to sit down at the moment and explain the issues. It would be sensible to think if you have a brain you would think about what you read.


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## SusieT (24 August 2011)

'
Person who called it an excuse to have ragwort - i take it you dont have it or have to pull it'
I sit looking over a field of it belonging to the farmer. I pull mine every year.


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## muff747 (24 August 2011)

Something that the ostrich (head in the sand) kind of people say is that the horses don't touch it and they eat around the plants.
Something that is always missed is that (as a previous poster said) they cannot help but pick up the seedlings with the mouthfuls of grass.
The plants don't suddenly go from a seed to a 2' high plant AND they are there for two years.  The seedlings grow amongst the grass and then turn into the rosette form and overwinter in the field, waiting until next May when they produce the flower stalk.  
So they cannot help but eat ragwort all the time whilst it is present in the field.
And yes they can distinguish it when it has dried.  Before I became more educated about the dangers of it, I used to pull out any dried plants from his hay net but occasionally, there was a big stalk left in the net in the morning which thankfully my boy had left. But he will have ingested the powdered dried leaves that would have been present in amongst the hay.


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## brighteyes (24 August 2011)

Well, I disagree.  You shouldn't be flip about it, it's a bloody disgrace and any horse owner should be ashamed to have it growing in a field their horses graze.

The blasted weed needs confining to areas it isn't likely to kill livestock and whoever it was said it needs to be ingested to be harmful, well that's a load of billhooks too.  It is poisonous on contact with the skin and although less toxic than if ingested, it's effects on the liver are still evident when tested.

Honestly, I despair sometimes


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## RunToEarth (24 August 2011)

I think ragwort is an issue a lot of horse owners are misinformed on, and there will always be articles online that suggest it isn't such a big deal. 
My coloured came to me photosensitive, diagnosed due to previously eating ragwort, whether it is appealing to them or not, I couldn't rest easy knowing my horses, who I care about a great deal, are grazing with ragwort available to them, and I really do not like seeing it in fields. 
Ragwort isn't a notifiable weed by DEFRA, there is no such thing in English law, it is just classified poisonous to livestock. You will struggle greatly to get a response from the authorities, I have recently relocated 3 miles from a large RSPCA base and I have never seen so many horses grazing ragwort, the place is riddled. 
I don't think creating this thread, and announcing 90% of people on forums liars, considering you created a second user name is a particularly helpful or sane thing to do. I also think if you are concerned for the horses' welfare, but cannot be bothered to spend a day pulling ragwort, you infact are a big troublestirrer, and not that bothered about the horses at all...


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## Dobiegirl (24 August 2011)

When people say it does not harm other livestock how do you know, the thing with Ragwort it is culmative(sp) and the animals are sent for slaughter before its affect can be noticeable.

I remember quite a few years ago I think it was Your Horse did an article about Ragwort and a professor from Liverpool took a sample of his blood, pulled ragwort without gloves and took another blood test. The second blood test showed the toxins in his system this is why you  have to wear gloves.

I think anyone who turns horses out in a field with ragwort is either very ignorant,lazy or both.


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## Foxhunter49 (24 August 2011)

Although Ragworts can be a significant nuisance to horse keepers, these species are a very important source of nectar and pollen. About 150 species of insects, such as bees, flies and butterflies, visit the plant. 

I disagree with this - if you go into any area that has wild flowers and ragworts growing then you will see very few insects on the ragwort they prefer other plants.

Gone are the days when anyone who saw ragwort growing would pull it - there was very little of it to be seen.


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## MerrySherryRider (24 August 2011)

RunToEarth said:



			Ragwort isn't a notifiable weed by DEFRA, there is no such thing in English law, it is just classified poisonous to livestock. You will struggle greatly to get a response from the authorities, I have recently relocated 3 miles from a large RSPCA base and I have never seen so many horses grazing ragwort, the place is riddled.
		
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Under the Weeds Act 1959, Natural England can, and will enforce the act.


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## Achinghips (24 August 2011)

Foxhunter49 said:



			Although Ragworts can be a significant nuisance to horse keepers, these species are a very important source of nectar and pollen. About 150 species of insects, such as bees, flies and butterflies, visit the plant. 

.
		
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Who cares?

"Well, I disagree. You shouldn't be flip about it, it's a bloody disgrace and any horse owner should be ashamed to have it growing in a field their horses graze.

The blasted weed needs confining to areas it isn't likely to kill livestock and whoever it was said it needs to be ingested to be harmful, well that's a load of billhooks too. It is poisonous on contact with the skin and although less toxic than if ingested, it's effects on the liver are still evident when tested".

 ...........................Too right!


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## toffeesmarty (24 August 2011)

I know of a horse who was grazed around ragwort for most of her life. 5 months ago she was brought in looking poorly. Overnight she had become emancipated and barely able to stand. Three days later she was dead from liver disease believed to be as result of ragwort poisioning. 
The worst thing is the owner still had fields full of the damn stuff.


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## WoopsiiD (24 August 2011)

http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb9840-cop-ragwort.pdf


Knock yourselves out........

Think that counts as fact?


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## CorvusCorax (25 August 2011)

Anyone remember Deja's ponies? 
Oh and I think I suspect the person being 'accused' here, was instrumental in trying to get those ponies help. Oh well, keep on hating, it's soooo productive....


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## Mike007 (25 August 2011)

The reason well managed pasture has little if any ragwort ,has nothing to do with "pulling ragwort" Ragwort finds it almost impossible to become established in a dense ,close, sward . It thrives on disturbed soil where it has no competition and relys on its ability to grow above surrounding competitors. The seeds are EVERYWHERE ,dormant. The reason they spring up on verges and after digging is because the seeds ALREADY THERE sprout. Its pointless worrying about uncontrolled ragwort because you will never have any impact on the seed reserve in the soil.Perhaps if more attention was given to pasture management and not overgrazing ,then there would be fewer fields showing it. Frankly, even if you are conscientiosly pulling ragwort ,you only clear the mature plant and your horse grazes amongst the seedlings.Your field might look better ,but the horse is less likely to eat a mature plant than a seedling.I doubt whether there is much difference in the number of viable ragwort seeds in a picked field as opposed to an unpicked one. The key factor is not the ragwort plants but the fact that they are indicative of A LACK OF GRASS TO EAT .A hungry horse will eat anything!


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## piebaldsparkle (25 August 2011)

Mrs B said:



			Difficult to know what bin to put them in though - so they don't go to landfill...
		
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Burn it!


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## piebaldsparkle (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			No I will not name them as I think that IS unfair - and can I ask how people are suppoed to 'lynch' someone when they don't know who they are? lol.
		
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See I think you should have named them with a polite request that everyone who read the thread PM'd them and politely asked that they pulled their ragwort


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## Mike007 (25 August 2011)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Burn it!
		
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Makes no difference ,just leave them in a heap outside your field ,to compost. They arent demon gremlin zombie trifid plants ,they are just dead plants.


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## Dolcé (25 August 2011)

I think this year is particularly bad for ragwort (or good if you are a ragwort plant I suppose!) Our yard comprises of fields that were mainly used as hay fields until 2 years ago, managed by a YO who is absolutely fastidious about keeping his fields clear.  This year it is springing up all over the place, I suspect due to the ground being poached now it is being grazed all year round and dormant seeds being disturbed.  We pull it every time we come across it  but more is springing up.  The next door yard has fields that are full of the stuff, along with several types of thistle and docks, they will be getting reported this year in the hope they will be made to do something about all of their weeds that are seeding into our fields as they completely ignore it.

I do believe that the seeds are carcinogenic and are inhaled by grazing horses after shedding so another reason to ensure that they are not allowed to seed.

I have to be honest and say that if OP has spoken to the land owner she is writing about then she should report it if it is being ignored, but I do not see the point of the thread other than to rant and be antagonistic towards posters who don't agree with her.  It does come across a tad personal!


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## piebaldsparkle (25 August 2011)

Mike007 said:



			Makes no difference ,just leave them in a heap outside your field ,to compost. They arent demon gremlin zombie trifid plants ,they are just dead plants.
		
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Now where's the fun in that?  Next you will be telling me I don't have to dance naked round the flames to ward off the evil spirits either!


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## Mike007 (25 August 2011)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Now where's the fun in that?  Next you will be telling me I don't have to dance naked round the flames to ward off the evil spirits either!

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Wots she wearing? ......I dont know but it needs Ironing....... Mike runs away and hides


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## piebaldsparkle (25 August 2011)

***Beats Mike round the head with a branch of burning ragwort***

(Yes I did mean branch the bugger grow as big as trees here)


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## sarahw123 (25 August 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			OK I will give  a constructive reply after my initial response of annoyance, here are some ragwort facts for everyone to read:-

  Although Ragworts can be a significant nuisance to horse keepers, these species are a very important source of nectar and pollen. About 150 species of insects, such as bees, flies and butterflies, visit the plant. Therefore, even it were possible, eradicating the plant is not a desirable option. We will have to find other ways to protect our livestock. There are no easy solutions to the Ragwort problem, but that doesnt mean that there is nothing we can do.
   The aim of this website is to distinguish facts from myths by using a scientific approach based on research and advice from biologists, toxicologists, and other experts. In this way, we want to determine the nature and scale of the problem that Ragwort presents to our horses and other livestock. In this way, I would like to contribute to a solution of the Ragwort problem; as a horse lover AND as a Ragwort enthusiast.

Q: Is it true that horses usually do not eat fresh Ragwort?
A: Yes, that is right. Only in exceptional circumstances or when there is a food shortage, horses will eat fresh Ragwort. Horses, however, don't recognize dried Ragwort plants as poisonous and contaminated hay may cause Ragwort poisoning. More info

Q: Will my horse get ill when it occasionally eats a mouthful of ragwort?
A; No, incidentally ingesting small amounts of Ragwort will not result in illness. If, however, horses eat several kilograms of Ragwort a day or small amounts for extended periods, this may lead to irreparable liver damage. More info

Q: Do the toxins in Ragworts accumulate in a horses body?
A: No. The toxins (pyrrolizidine alkaloids) are excreted within 24-48 hours. If an animal consumes pyrrolidizine alkaloids regularly though, liver damage will accumulate and the animal will show signs of illness. More info

Q: Is it true there are several hundreds of victims each year?
A: The exact number of victims of Ragwort poisoning is unknown. The symptoms of Ragwort poisoning cannot be distinguished from other liver disorders and poisoning can only be confirmed by means of a post-mortem liver exam. These exams are, however, not common practice, and reliable data on the number of victims are therefore not available. There could be more than hundreds of victims, but there could also be much fewer. More info

Q: Will touching a Ragwort plant result in alkaloid poisoning?
A: No. Ragwort poisoning takes place in the digestive system. In the plant, pyrrolidizine alkaloids are stored in their non-toxic form. Only if these substances end up in the digestive system, they will be converted into their toxic form. There is no scientific evidence that skin contact leads to the conversion of non-toxic alkaloids into their toxic form. Some people experience an allergic reaction after skin contact (compositae dermatitis), but this response is cause by sesquiterpene lactones rather than pyrrolizidine alkaloids. These sesquiterpene lactones are common chemical compounds of members of the Sunflower family. More info

Q: Are all Ragwort species poisonous?
A: Yes, all Dutch Ragworts contain pyrrolizidine alkaloids. These are also found in Comfrey and Butterbur.

Q: Why is Ragwort fairly common in horse pastures?
A: Ragwort needs a bare spot to germinate. Horses easily churn up the ground when running, and graze the grass very short, thereby easily creating open spots suitable for seed germination. More info

Q: Why is Ragwort nowadays more common in the Netherlands than before?
A: Ragworts are presumably more common in the Netherlands and neighboring countries than 30 years ago, because the number of suitable habitats has increased due to large-scale renewal of infrastructure, building activities, and efforts to give agricultural land back to nature. In addition, Ragwort seeds have been used to enrich roadsides. There is no evidence that Ragworts have a different habitat preference or better dispersal capabilities than in the days when this species was much less common in the Netherlands. More info

Q: How can I recognize Ragwort?
A: Ragwort is a biennial. In the first it only has leaves organized in a rosettes. These can be found throughout most parts of the year. Ragwort usually flowers in the second year (June till October). After the plant has produced seeds, it dies. The leaves of Ragwort are pinnately lobed. Flowerheads often occur in clusters called corymbs. They are yellow with ray and disk flowers. Click here for pictures of Ragwort and other Ragwort species.

Q: I have Ragwort plants growing in my horse's field, what can I do?
A: Ragwort is difficult to eradicate and most methods to remove the plants, such as pulling by hand, mowing, and using herbicides, may have increase rather than decrease the number of Ragwort plants at a given site. The best way is probably to prevent ragwort from establishing in a pasture. Good pasture management is therefore of utmost importance. More info

Q: Is it true that the toxin in Ragworts can poison a whole bale of hay?
A: No. The toxins remain in the plant and don't 'contaminate' the rest of the hay. It is advisable though not to use the rest of the bale for consumption, because undetected parts of the plant may have remained in the hay and can potentially lead to Ragwort poisoning.
		
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^^^^Very imformative and useful info here! Glad to find some info which doesn't seem intent on 'scare-mongering'


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## M_G (25 August 2011)

I think it's shocking & HHO member should be ashamed... There is no excuse for ragwort covered fields!!


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## DragonSlayer (25 August 2011)

Call to Arms!

This is a Call to Arms!

Grab your pitchforks, hoes and shovels....we march tonight!

Bring you flaming torches and lets set-up the stake at which to burn this member who is obviously a heathen!

Look, report the member and be done with it.

We are all aware of the dangers of ragwort, but quite frankly, if the authorities don't give a flying fook, why the heck are people getting steamed up over it?


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## Lady La La (25 August 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			Anyone remember Deja's ponies? 
Oh and I think I suspect the person being 'accused' here, was instrumental in trying to get those ponies help. Oh well, keep on hating, it's soooo productive....
		
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isn't it just


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## fburton (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			I think it would help if a few of you to read my responses in here before posting. I HAVE already contacted this member and asked for them to do something about it - I got a less than satisfactory response.
		
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Ask or tell? What kind of tone did you take with this person? That can make all the difference. Did you offer to help?


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## Worried1 (25 August 2011)

Just a thought if you have enough time to create a new account, stop and rake photos and reply to just about every post, why not offer your help and spend some time helping to clear their fields.

As a landowner whose property Borders a country park, this year our fields have been horrific, it is heart breaking that the council has allowed their fields to flower and seed which in turn have caused our fields to become a hotbed of ragwort infestation.

In the end it took a team of five of us to cut, bale and burn a week. We have since been topping and pulling ever since.

I can appreciate how our fields 'looked' a few weeks ago but with 30 acres to clear its not a quick or easy job. 

I for one would have welcomed any outside help.


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## Puppy (25 August 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



*OK I will give  a constructive reply after my initial response of annoyance, here are some ragwort facts for everyone to read:-*

  Although Ragworts can be a significant nuisance to horse keepers, these species are a very important source of nectar and pollen. About 150 species of insects, such as bees, flies and butterflies, visit the plant. Therefore, even it were possible, eradicating the plant is not a desirable option. We will have to find other ways to protect our livestock. There are no easy solutions to the Ragwort problem, but that doesnt mean that there is nothing we can do.
   The aim of this website is to distinguish facts from myths by using a scientific approach based on research and advice from biologists, toxicologists, and other experts. In this way, we want to determine the nature and scale of the problem that Ragwort presents to our horses and other livestock. In this way, I would like to contribute to a solution of the Ragwort problem; as a horse lover AND as a Ragwort enthusiast.
		
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Erm, C&P'd much 

http://www.ragwort.jakobskruiskruid.com/


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## MerrySherryRider (25 August 2011)

So, genuine question for all the critics  - What would you do if, after having contacted the owner of horses grazing in a ragwort filled field, nothing was done, what would you do ?

a) Nothing. Not my problem.
b) Offer to pull the whole lot because the owner can't be bothered. And repeat as necessary.
c) Highlight the problem on the forum the owner reads, but without naming and shaming ? Also highlighting the problem to more complacent owners whose pasture management is lax.
d) Quietly report to Natural England and hope they enforce the Weed Act ?

I am at a loss to understand the hostility to the OP who has assumed another username which will prevent the offender being identified ? Why no criticism of the owner whose horses are kept in a field full of ragwort ? 

Confused.com.


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## brighteyes (25 August 2011)

Dobiegirl said:



			When people say it does not harm other livestock how do you know, the thing with Ragwort it is culmative(sp) and the animals are sent for slaughter before its affect can be noticeable.

I remember quite a few years ago I think it was Your Horse did an article about Ragwort and a professor from Liverpool took a sample of his blood, pulled ragwort without gloves and took another blood test. The second blood test showed the toxins in his system this is why you  have to wear gloves.

I think anyone who turns horses out in a field with ragwort is either very ignorant,lazy or both.
		
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*Thank you! *

I think the person with the 'constructive advice' works for the National Weed Protection Society.  Their facts are very distorted and not at all representative of this horribly noxious plant which actually cannot even be disposed of safely.  However it breaks down, inclding burning, it releases its deadly poison into the environment.  

Final point, how on _earth_ is it the OP's job to rid the field of it???  It could be construed as trespass or trespass with theft or damage to property - or some such public order law.

OP I hope you get some help on this one. Good for you for posting.

*horserider* you and me both.  Sometimes, I just don't get this forum!


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## NOISYGIRL (25 August 2011)

I thought it was the land owners/manager's responsibility to remove ragwort from where there are grazing amimals, you could try council or defra, environmental health ? or is that just people ?


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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

Rather brilliantly DEFRA recommend keeping horses off pasture when it is wet. They suggest December to March. My horses would go ape if they weren't allowed to go out for three months. Also they suggest no bald patches are allowed to develop due to 'overgrazing'. God only know what those of us with fattys are meant to do. As usual there advice is absurd and impractical in many instances


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## indie999 (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			lol I don't expect that people 'have' to believe me. But then again this is the internet and probably 90% of what people write is made up. Anyway, I've seen the field and I know the poster. No I will not name them as I think that IS unfair - and can I ask how people are suppoed to 'lynch' someone when they don't know who they are? lol.
		
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Ur I dont think 90% is made up at all..just the odd screwy person on here. Most are quite sane (I think)!

Anyhow re Ragwort...speak to them if no action your next step is DEFRA. Natural England are about as natural as the centre of London. Defra have to act.  Its that simple rather than getting into some spat on here. There is plenty about ragwort but little action.So off you go now. Good luck.


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## MerrySherryRider (25 August 2011)

indie999 said:



			Anyhow re Ragwort...speak to them if no action your next step is DEFRA. Natural England are about as natural as the centre of London. Defra have to act.
		
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Natural England is the agency that deals with ragwort complaints on behalf of Defra.


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## MurphysMinder (25 August 2011)

Dobiegirl said:



			When people say it does not harm other livestock how do you know, the thing with Ragwort it is culmative(sp) and the animals are sent for slaughter before its affect can be noticeable.

I remember quite a few years ago I think it was Your Horse did an article about Ragwort and a professor from Liverpool took a sample of his blood, pulled ragwort without gloves and took another blood test. The second blood test showed the toxins in his system this is why you  have to wear gloves.

I think anyone who turns horses out in a field with ragwort is either very ignorant,lazy or both.
		
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Years ago a farmer friend lost 2 calves from ragwort poisoning so it does affect other livestock, but as dg says probably it doesn't show in most before they go to slaughter.
That was Prof Knottenbelt at Liverpool Uni.  I went to a talk by him and he spoke about that experiment, he certainly wouldn't say those of us who worry about ragwort are over reacting.


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## Hedwards (25 August 2011)

Blimey its never dull on here is it!!

OP - I do wonder as others have why you feel the need to post under a different name, but each to their own I suppose. However, I do suggest some sort of attitude realignement - some of your replies have been very childish, and will only get people's backs up, and less likely to take your post seriously.

Ragwort does make an important contribution to wildlife and bio-diversity - look at the cinnabar moth - which I believe is heading towards being endangered, its cattepilars are particularly fond of ragwort - and I also believe its been suggested they could be used to go some way to help control the plant.

However, on grazing pasture I cannot abide the stuff, we are lucky on our yard to only come accross it occasionally, use a ragfork to remove and continue happily. little and often consumption of ragwort can be as damaging over time as a large amount in one go. I dont think there is any excuse to have grazing where it has taken over - the odd plant here or there can happen very easily, and I bet most of us on here either own or livery on land where this is the case.

I echo others that have suggested DEFRA etc. 

I have actually recently email the forestry commission about an area of the national forest that has become over-run with the stuff - the reply is that they currently feel they're fighting a loosing battle, trying to find weedkillers that are suitable for use (I had been considering trying to round up lots of volunteers and arm them with Ragforks - but the area to just so over-run and so huge i dont think we'd even make a dent in it!)


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## hayinamanger (25 August 2011)

When I spoke to Natural England about Ragwort, they gave me the following info:-

1) It is NOT illegal to have Ragwort growing on your own land.

2) It only becomes an issue if there is a danger of it spreading to your own land.

3) If this is the case NE will send you a complaints pack.

4) They will only take action if the problem cannot be resolved by informal discussion between yourself and the landowner.


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## horsegirl (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Rather brilliantly DEFRA recommend keeping horses off pasture when it is wet. They suggest December to March. My horses would go ape if they weren't allowed to go out for three months. Also they suggest no bald patches are allowed to develop due to 'overgrazing'. God only know what those of us with fattys are meant to do. As usual there advice is absurd and impractical in many instances 

Click to expand...

How it is Defra's fault that this is what you need to do to prevent it?  Just because it is impractical doesn't make it poor advice!


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## Missmac (25 August 2011)

This is something which literally keeps me awake some nights worrying.

I rent land which is surrounded by fields plastered in ragwort. Most of these fields have some horses in them but one of my neighbours is an absolute bl**dy disgrace.

She breeds Welsh b's and judges quite a lot apparantly but the state of her land (and her horses) is disgusting. Fields full of skinny, pot bellied things that are knee deep in ragwort. She has been reported to the RSPCA and after that particular pony was put out of its misery she - according to the elderly lady that lives by my field - went round all the neighbours she could find accusing them of reporting her and threatening them (with what I dont know!)

I spend a lot of my free time armed with a ragfork pulling up every tiny piece I can find but every time I drive past this womans land I feel like crying because in my mind I am basically condeming my horses to illness by housing them where I am. I cant move them due to my current financial position but even when I can afford to, I look around and I can see ragwort everywhere!

My paranoia has gotten so bad that i'm terrified about where to get hay/haylage from as I simple dont trust people when it comes to keeping their land ragwort free.


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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

horsegirl said:



			How it is Defra's fault that this is what you need to do to prevent it?  Just because it is impractical doesn't make it poor advice!
		
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I would say that by very definition giving someone impractical advice is giving them poor advise. Especially if the advice being given is potentially detrimental to the welfare of animals. What if someone read that and thought 'o, my lami pony has grazed it's paddock down to bare earth. I had better turn it out on the whole three acres rather than it's strip of grazing as I now know ragwort is very dangerous and I mustn't let my paddock have bald spots'. I know people should know better but unfortunately some don't.


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## Ranyhyn (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			But then again this is the internet and probably 90% of what people write is made up
		
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Yes quite...


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## horsegirl (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:



			I would say that by very definition giving someone impractical advice is giving them poor advise. Especially if the advice being given is potentially detrimental to the welfare of animals. What if someone read that and thought 'o, my lami pony has grazed it's paddock down to bare earth. I had better turn it out on the whole three acres rather than it's strip of grazing as I now know ragwort is very dangerous and I mustn't let my paddock have bald spots'. I know people should know better but unfortunately some don't.
		
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No, because it is impractical for you.  If that is what needs to be done to prevent the spread of ragwort then what else do you expect them to advise?  They are telling you what needs to be done they are not saying you must do it.


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## scarymare (25 August 2011)

I'm too angry to read this thread.  I have seen a horse die from ragwort.  In a bareish field (some grass).  My own horse was also kept in the field (I was 14) but brought in to feed.  Anyone who can't be ar*** to go out with a pinch bar and pull them up is a muppet.  When I moved in to my house my fields were full of it - this year (7 years on) I only pulled up 3 lots.


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## jendie (25 August 2011)

I've been upset by the state of some of the paddocks close to where I live. They are filled with ragwort and poo, one wonders how the horses manage to find enough grass to survive. Surely people must KNOW the dangers of ragwort these days ?


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## RunToEarth (25 August 2011)

horserider said:



			Under the Weeds Act 1959, Natural England can, and will enforce the act.
		
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And evidently they are doing a cracking job, considering you can't swing a cat without launching it into a patch of ragwort in this country. 
It is a problem in this country because apart from the responsible land owners, there is no authority enforcing any reasonable legislation on the weed.


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## joeanne (25 August 2011)

OP contact WHW or BHS.....there HAVE been cases horses have been removed due to being in infested fields. Generaly given 7 days to get the horsrs off and field treated, but if not done after the 7 days they can remove them if its deemed necessary.


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## BBH (25 August 2011)

I am infested with the stuff this year and its a losing battle. I am bordered by the highways agency and a neighbour who has land but no horses and neither give a xxxx.

The only way I can keep it under control is spraying and at upwards of £400 twice a year I can understand why people get fed up of the stuff.

Has anyone considered that these people with ragwort may be just as worried about it but don't have the manpower, health or funds to keep on top of it. They may not be the lazy, uncaring .....'s mentioned they just need help.


Re enforement of legislation from what I gather its only horse owners that don't want it and when funding everywhere is so tight they maybe would prefer to save their money and assume horse owners will deal with it themselves.


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## Dobiegirl (25 August 2011)

The obvious long term worry is if anyone is buying in hay how can you tell it hasnt got ragwort in it. Sellers are not going to admit it has because who would buy it.

The way ragwort is spreading in this country is going to be a real health issue for horses in   for years to come.


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## Bosworth (25 August 2011)

the hay issues is why I won't let my liveries buy their iown. I make my own haylage, from ragwort free pasture. I spend a lot of time and money ensuring I have good grazing and good haylage. I am not going to jeopardise that by allowing unknow haylage/hay to be brought in and chucked on my muck heap. We spread the muck heaps on rested paddocks so any seeds could in effect be spread back out causeing ragwort. I pick about 10 plants a year. but i spray my fields once a year for weed control and that seems to ensure a ragwort plant is a rarity. I have one area of my land that is all fenced in where some previous owner ofthe property dug out a large pond. That has filled itself in over time so is now more of a swamp than anything else and that is where I get the ragwort. I have decided that next year I will spray the whole of that area as well to really get on top of it.


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## Kenzo (25 August 2011)

Bosworth said:



			the hay issues is why I won't let my liveries buy their iown. I make my own haylage, from ragwort free pasture. I spend a lot of time and money ensuring I have good grazing and good haylage. I am not going to jeopardise that by allowing unknow haylage/hay to be brought in and chucked on my muck heap.
		
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Good point, if only more famers and YO's invested more time and money into preventing the spread and growing good quality hay free from ragwort and other unwanted weeds.


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## martlin (25 August 2011)

Kenzo said:



			Good point, if only more famers and YO's invested more time and money into preventing the spread and growing good quality hay free from ragwort and other unwanted weeds.
		
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Oh, but we do! It's just so difficult to explain to liveries why they aren't allowed to buy hay from somewhere cheaper... I make my own hay, it's not enough and I also buy in from 2 farmers, from particular fields; I buy in haylage from 1 farmer, also particular fields.


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## brighteyes (25 August 2011)

martlin said:



			Oh, but we do! It's just so difficult to explain to liveries why they aren't allowed to buy hay from somewhere cheaper... I make my own hay, it's not enough and I also buy in from 2 farmers, from particular fields; I buy in haylage from 1 farmer, also particular fields.
		
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Well I have no idea why you go to these ridiculous lengths, after all, we have been reliably informed by YD that 




			Q: Is it true that horses usually do not eat fresh Ragwort?
A: Yes, that is right. Only in exceptional circumstances or when there is a food shortage, horses will eat fresh Ragwort. Horses, however, don't recognize  dried Ragwort plants as poisonous and contaminated hay *may* cause Ragwort poisoning. More info

Q: Will my horse get ill when it occasionally eats a mouthful of ragwort?
A; No, incidentally ingesting small amounts of Ragwort will not result in illness. If, however, horses eat several kilograms of Ragwort a day or small amounts for extended periods, this *may* lead to irreparable liver damage. More info

Q: Do the toxins in Ragworts accumulate in a horse&#8217;s body?
A: *No.* The toxins (pyrrolizidine alkaloids) are excreted within 24-48 hours. If an animal consumes pyrrolidizine alkaloids regularly though, liver damage will accumulate and the animal will show signs of illness. More info (surely this second sentence totally contradicts the 'No' in answer to the Q????)

Click to expand...

And remember it only *may* cause liver damage.


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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

brighteyes said:



			Well I have no idea why you go to these ridiculous lengths, after all, we have been reliably informed by YD that 



And remember it only *may* cause liver damage.

  

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It is certainly the case it may cause liver damage. Depending on how much is eaten and the horse in questions liver and metabolism. Just the same as drinking alcohol may cause liver damage. You can't, medically, say that drinking any alcohol causes liver damage in humans because many humans drink occasionally and have perfectly healthy livers. It is scientifically inaccurate to say drinking causes liver damage. I would say the same rings true for ragwort. There will be occasions, I'm sure, where ingestion of ragwort doesn't cause liver damage and therefore people will always be reticent to remove the word 'may' when describing it.

And you misunderstand the fundamental difference between accumulation of a substance in the body and the lasting affects on the body once the substance has been cleared. The last point certainly does not negate the second.

I'm not saying we should feed our horses ragwort but if you're going to get sniffy about wording you should try and understand it first.


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## A1fie (25 August 2011)

Just had to post my experiences.  A woman I knew kept horses in a field full of ragwort, there was grass there as well.  It was a massive field.  When I walked around it I could see that some of the ragwort plants had been nibbled.  

A couple of horses were subsequently tested and their bloods showed they had early liver damage.  

I think it is too simplistic and inaccurate to say that horses don't touch ragwort unless it's dried or there is nothing else to eat.  That might be the case for some horses but not all and the dangers of saying it is that some people will believe that their horses won't touch it unless it has wilted.


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## Equestrianfriends (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:



			It is certainly the case it may cause liver damage. Depending on how much is eaten and the horse in questions liver and metabolism. Just the same as drinking alcohol may cause liver damage. You can't, medically, say that drinking any alcohol causes liver damage in humans because many humans drink occasionally and have perfectly healthy livers. It is scientifically inaccurate to say drinking causes liver damage. I would say the same rings true for ragwort. There will be occasions, I'm sure, where ingestion of ragwort doesn't cause liver damage and therefore people will always be reticent to remove the word 'may' when describing it.

And you misunderstand the fundamental difference between accumulation of a substance in the body and the lasting affects on the body once the substance has been cleared. The last point certainly does not negate the second.

I'm not saying we should feed our horses ragwort but if you're going to get sniffy about wording you should try and understand it first.[/QUOT

The only thing to understand is ragwort is dangerous to horses thats all there is to understand about it and it can kill them
		
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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

Equestrianfriends said:





jesstickle said:



			It is certainly the case it may cause liver damage. Depending on how much is eaten and the horse in questions liver and metabolism. Just the same as drinking alcohol may cause liver damage. You can't, medically, say that drinking any alcohol causes liver damage in humans because many humans drink occasionally and have perfectly healthy livers. It is scientifically inaccurate to say drinking causes liver damage. I would say the same rings true for ragwort. There will be occasions, I'm sure, where ingestion of ragwort doesn't cause liver damage and therefore people will always be reticent to remove the word 'may' when describing it.

And you misunderstand the fundamental difference between accumulation of a substance in the body and the lasting affects on the body once the substance has been cleared. The last point certainly does not negate the second.

I'm not saying we should feed our horses ragwort but if you're going to get sniffy about wording you should try and understand it first.[/QUOT

The only thing to understand is ragwort is dangerous to horses thats all there is to understand about it and it can kill them
		
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paracetamol can kill you. It's really, really bad for your liver. Do we write on the packet paracetamol causes liver disease. No. Because it doesn't. Not necessarily. We say it MAY cause liver damage.

I am all for people being aware that ragwort is dangerous but to rip into YD for saying something may cause liver disease when that is entirely accurate as a statement is unfair.

By pointing that out I am not denying we should all try and keep on top of our ragwort.
		
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## Equestrianfriends (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:





Equestrianfriends said:



			paracetamol can kill you. It's really, really bad for your liver. Do we write on the packet paracetamol causes liver disease. No. Because it doesn't. Not necessarily. We say it MAY cause liver damage.

I am all for people being aware that ragwort is dangerous but to rip into YD for saying something may cause liver disease when that is entirely accurate as a statement is unf

 horses do not think like us humans.  Ragwort is deadly and ragwort poisoning is deadly and not very nice for horses and yes it does cause liver damage
		
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Click to expand...


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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

Equestrianfriends said:





jesstickle said:



			ragwort is poisonous!!  paracetomal is not poisonous to us.  Its a total kettle of fish lol  You cannot compare ragwort and paracetomal.  And also horses do not think like us humans.  Ragwort is deadly and ragwort poisoning is deadly and not very nice for horses
		
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Paracetamol certainly is poisonous to us. As is alcohol. That is why you can die from ingesting either of them. If you ingest a very small amount there are few consequences, just as there are few consequences for horses ingesting small amounts of ragwort. Prolonged use of paracetamol at a reasonable level will finish you off, so will an overdose of it. Just as prolonged exposure to ragwort, or an overdose will kill off a horse. 

I am still not advocating leaving ragwort unchecked. I am merely being a little bit scientific in response to hysterical scare mongering.
		
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## Equestrianfriends (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:





Equestrianfriends said:



			Paracetamol certainly is poisonous to us. As is alcohol. That is why you can die from ingesting either of them. If you ingest a very small amount there are few consequences, just as there are few consequences for horses ingesting small amounts of ragwort. Prolonged use of paracetamol at a reasonable level will finish you off, so will an overdose of it. Just as prolonged exposure to ragwort, or an overdose will kill off a horse. 

I am still not advocating leaving ragwort unchecked. I am merely being a little bit scientific in response to hysterical scare mongering.[/QUO

like i said we have choices horses dont they do not think like us same as any animal
		
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Click to expand...


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## Fransurrey (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:





Equestrianfriends said:



			paracetamol can kill you. It's really, really bad for your liver. Do we write on the packet paracetamol causes liver disease. No. Because it doesn't. Not necessarily. We say it MAY cause liver damage.

I am all for people being aware that ragwort is dangerous but to rip into YD for saying something may cause liver disease when that is entirely accurate as a statement is unfair.

By pointing that out I am not denying we should all try and keep on top of our ragwort.
		
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Actually if you read the insert, the dangers are highlighted on paracetamol. They're not on the packet because there isn't room. There was also a campaign a few years ago, suggesting that as little as 8 can be an overdose.

Alkaloids have been shown many times to cause liver damage. There's no 'maybe' about it.
		
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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

Equestrianfriends said:



			like i said we have choices horses dont they do not think like us same as any animal
		
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This is very true. And we should do our utmost to protect them. It still doesn't mean we need to get sarky about someone's perfectly correct wording that 'ragwort may cause liver damage' though. That was all I was pointing out.


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## Lady La La (25 August 2011)

Fransurrey said:



			Actually if you read the insert, the dangers are highlighted on paracetamol. They're not on the packet because there isn't room. There was also a campaign a few years ago, suggesting that as little as 8 can be an overdose.

Alkaloids have been shown many times to cause liver damage. There's no 'maybe' about it.
		
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Why has this turned into 'pick holes in everything Jess says' day 

...She's in agreement with the majority of you, and has said several times that ragwort can be extremely dangerous and should be kept away from horses


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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

Lady La La said:



			Why has this turned into 'pick holes in everything Jess says' day 

...She's in agreement with the majority of you, and has said several times that ragwort can be extremely dangerous and should be kept away from horses 

Click to expand...

Because I stupidly decided to pull someone up for picking holes in someone else. My own fault but ta for sticking up for me petal


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## Equestrianfriends (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:



			This is very true. And we should do our utmost to protect them. It still doesn't mean we need to get sarky about someone's perfectly correct wording that 'ragwort may cause liver damage' though. That was all I was pointing out.
		
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ok  i can see your point to


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## Lady La La (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Because I stupidly decided to pull someone up for picking holes in someone else. My own fault but ta for sticking up for me petal 

Click to expand...

Not 'sticking up' for you as such, it just seems silly that focus has now shifted to you & how you're incorrect about paracetamol - when essentially, you agree with the dangers of keeping ragwort around horses... same as me & most other responsible horse owners...


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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

Fransurrey said:





jesstickle said:



			Actually if you read the insert, the dangers are highlighted on paracetamol. They're not on the packet because there isn't room. There was also a campaign a few years ago, suggesting that as little as 8 can be an overdose.

Alkaloids have been shown many times to cause liver damage. There's no 'maybe' about it.
		
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Gah. I know. But what the insert says is 'MAY cause liver damage'. Just like ragwort MAY cause liver damage. 

I really don't think you people are listening to me. I am aware ragwort is dangerous. I am arguing an issue of semantics, not saying ragwort is safe!
		
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## Lady La La (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Gah. I know. But what the insert says is 'MAY cause liver damage'. Just like ragwort MAY cause liver damage. 

I really don't think you people are listening to me. I am aware ragwort is dangerous. I am arguing an issue of semantics, not saying ragwort is safe!
		
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Have a vodka & Tonic m'love..   (I appreciate its normally gin, but I hate the stuff...)


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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

Lady La La said:



			Have a vodka & Tonic m'love..   (I appreciate its normally gin, but I hate the stuff...)
		
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God. Me too. Ever since I drank half a litre neat at the age of 15. Now that _ definitely _ caused liver damage!


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## Equestrianfriends (25 August 2011)

wow all the scientific words i am no good with lol   and sounds like im going to be killed over by my meds


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## Lady La La (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:



			. Now that _ definitely _ caused liver damage!
		
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## joeanne (25 August 2011)

Equestrianfriends said:





jesstickle said:





Equestrianfriends said:



			paracetamol can kill you. It's really, really bad for your liver. Do we write on the packet paracetamol causes liver disease. No. Because it doesn't. Not necessarily. We say it MAY cause liver damage.
		
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Load of old tosh. Paracetamol will only cause liver damage if too much is taken, and the liver function is impared beyond 25%. After that the liver cannot regenerate itself.
The reason we dont write paracetamol causes liver disease is because it CANT....it CAN however cause liver FAILURE if too much is taken at any one point!
		
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Click to expand...


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## Twinkle Twinkle (25 August 2011)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			You have a few choices
1. Speak face to face with said person
2. Butt out & leave them to get on with it
3. Report them to DEFRA/council

Does their land adjoin yours? In which case, 1 & 3 come into play
Does it affect you otherwise?

I really can't see what you get off on by having a new name to try to 'shame' someone on here for the way they keep their land 

Click to expand...

^^^^^
This


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## CorvusCorax (25 August 2011)

Joanne, EquestrianFriends did not say that, it was a (not very well labelled) quote.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=161891


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## Syrah (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			Why are you agreeing with someone so ignorant? And see as you are agreeing with that poster, please explain how I have named and shamed someone on here without giving their name?
		
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Umm Fuzzy Furry didn't say you named them, merely that you are trying to shame them.  So RG will have difficulty explaining that one.

Goes back to lurking  and going out in a bit before you decide to tell me to go away 

Got to love this forum


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## joeanne (25 August 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			Joanne, EquestrianFriends did not say that, it was a (not very well labelled) quote.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=161891

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Ahhh My apologies EF.....Label your quotes better!

OP bottom line....if you want to do something about it then do so.....whinging on a forum is not going to action anything, and nobody here can help as they dont know the where's and whyfores.
Either call DEFRA, WHW, RSPCA, et al, who can either advise or action on your behalf.


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## Mrs B (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			Incorrect. I have actually found out what to do from here thanks to a minority of helpful, non-condescending posters.
		
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Well, if you're not Skewby, you must be very closely related OP...


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## Ranyhyn (25 August 2011)

And who would Skewby be most likely to love to lynch?  Answers on a postcard purleeeease?


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## Twinkle Twinkle (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			Why are you agreeing with someone so ignorant? And see as you are agreeing with that poster, please explain how I have named and shamed someone on here without giving their name?
		
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I am agreeing with certain points Fuzzy Furry made l dont think she is ignorant. I never said you named and shamed them on this forum. What l am saying is why change your name if you have a problem with someone don`t hide behind a computer.


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## CorvusCorax (25 August 2011)

BoolavogueDC said:



			And who would Skewby be most likely to love to lynch?  Answers on a postcard purleeeease?
		
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Dunno, but person on the postcard is probably busy, ya know, helping horses.


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## Mrs B (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			Oh here we go again...
		
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*shrugs* It's just that the kind of paranoid aggression you display in your posts and which gets peoples' backs up is identical to hers. 

If you want a good, helpful, 'non-condescending' response from the majority instead of the minority, you could try modifying your approach. Just a thought.


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## Ranyhyn (25 August 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			Dunno, but person on the postcard is probably busy, ya know, helping horses.
		
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I hear you.


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## martlin (25 August 2011)

BoolavogueDC said:



			And who would Skewby be most likely to love to lynch?  Answers on a postcard purleeeease?
		
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Oh, dunno, I might come close second


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## Ranyhyn (25 August 2011)

Just aggressive then


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## Mrs B (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			Patronising and condescending lol. I'm ignoring you from now on, it's the best way.

I wasn't being paranoid as it happens, you and many other posters are accusing me of being someone I'm not.
		
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I should do just that, Dandelion, whoever you are. Ignoring someone who might just be pointing out that you have a little bit of a problem when it comes to people and communication skills is _much_ the most sensible, adult and productive thing to do.


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## Ranyhyn (25 August 2011)

She wont be listenning Mrs B!


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## Mrs B (25 August 2011)

BoolavogueDC said:



			She wont be listenning Mrs B!





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Come again?


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## Ranyhyn (25 August 2011)

You don't know how much it took for me to post a photo of a grotesque monkey! Shudders!! However I feel it captured the gay abandon of not listenning, to a T..


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## Equestrianfriends (25 August 2011)

joeanne said:





Equestrianfriends said:





jesstickle said:



			Load of old tosh. Paracetamol will only cause liver damage if too much is taken, and the liver function is impared beyond 25%. After that the liver cannot regenerate itself.
The reason we dont write paracetamol causes liver disease is because it CANT....it CAN however cause liver FAILURE if too much is taken at any one point!
		
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Hey i never wrote that ^^^^^^^ it was another poster!!!!!!! i was quoting what a poster wrote!!!!
		
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Click to expand...


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## Equestrianfriends (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:





jesstickle said:



			This doesn't really stand as a statement, seeing as paracetamol is only toxic in an overdose. 


It might be nice if we move back to the original subject now, thank you.
		
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If you read back on the thread i never said that quote it was jesstickle
		
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## Equestrianfriends (25 August 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			Joanne, EquestrianFriends did not say that, it was a (not very well labelled) quote.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=161891

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Thankyou cave for pointing that out


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## MrsMozart (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			You really are childish  I have no problems thank you very much - you are the one attacking me. Grow up.

*waits for further childish responses asking why I replied*
		
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MrsB is lovely.

I like MrsB I do.

She said what she had to say very nicely, so, please be nice to MrsB.


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## jhoward (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			You really are childish  I have no problems thank you very much - you are the one attacking me. Grow up.

*waits for further childish responses asking why I replied*
		
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can I provide an answer to the latter instead? cauz u iz liking the attention! hows that?


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## devonlass (25 August 2011)

Is it just me who sees this kind of thing as overly interfering??

Am pretty sure if they're a horse owner they know the 'possible' dangers of ragwort,so if you're not telling them anything they don't already know then what's the point of this thread?? Where does 'helpfully informing' end and 'sticking your pompous nose in' start I wonder??

If you believe they are commiting an offence report them,and let the appropriate people deal with it.
Other than that perhaps minding your own business would be the most sensible approach.Especially as I am assuming you don't know what measures they might have already taken or be currently taking to address the problem??

There are many things as dangerous or even more so than having ragwort present on grazing do you go around telling everybody off about those?? Bet you're a popular soul,not


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## Mrs B (25 August 2011)

MrsMozart said:



			MrsB is lovely.

I like MrsB I do.

She said what she had to say very nicely, so, please be nice to MrsB.






Click to expand...

Thank you, Mrs M. I rather like you too and that was very... - what's the female equivalent of being chivalrous? Anyway - that, whatever it is   x


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## MrsMozart (25 August 2011)

Mrs B said:



			Thank you, Mrs M. I rather like you too and that was very... - what's the female equivalent of being chivalrous? Anyway - that, whatever it is   x
		
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Ta m'duck


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## DragonSlayer (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			This is about an extreme and isolated case. Please read the OP properly before humiliating yourself with a response that has little to do with the thread. Thank you.
		
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You talk about others being childish with regards to your replies.

Firstly, am I right in saying you are posting under an assumed name? 

If you cannot stand by your principals with your true identity, then you need to question your own morals here.

Every poster who has replied to you with a slightly negative response, has been met, by you, with an attempt to be 'Holier Than Thou'.

The problem has now been moved from ragwort in a field, to who you might really be.

It will only get worse and worse, insults will be along very soon, and someone will push the button, and this thread will disappear, therefore your attempt to make the person you speak of feel ashamed...will no longer hold any water.

I mentioned earlier, contact the relevant bodies and be done with it....then the animals you are worried about, can be saved from the ragwort you say is potentially harming their health.

I would also chose your reply to me carefully. Any attempt to say I am being childish, looking foolish etc etc etc....will show that you are unable to take part in an adult discussion.


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## DragonSlayer (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			Oh dear. Well I have little to do with you usually because you constantly bait people with this type of post and then get a kick out of starting an argument to get others in trouble. I've seen you do it countless times. For what it's worth, the bolded part of your post is very childish.
		
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I rest my case.


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## quirky (25 August 2011)

Happy Holiday Dandelion


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## Puppy (25 August 2011)

5 pages and no one has named names?! I am disappointed!


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## MrsMozart (25 August 2011)

quirky said:



			Happy Holiday Dandelion 

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The posts have all gone as well


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## devonlass (25 August 2011)

**Dandelion** said:



			This is about an extreme and isolated case. Please read the OP properly before humiliating yourself with a response that has little to do with the thread. Thank you.
		
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I don't suppose for one minute it's an extreme or isolated case TBH,many people have commented on how rife the ragwort is this year.Perhaps it's more that most people don't tend to make such a big fuss about it when they see it as you are??

Don't worry I don't feel at all humiliated,although am a little confused as to how my post wasn't to do with the thread??

Just an observation but you don't appear to be able to cope well with others questioning your judgement,with that in mind starting a thread such as this on a public forum might not have been the way to go.....................................................................


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## *hic* (25 August 2011)

I am fascinated now, was skewby on holiday before this thread was started because she is now, same as dandelion


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## Equestrianfriends (25 August 2011)

devonlass said:



			I don't suppose for one minute it's an extreme or isolated case TBH,many people have commented on how rife the ragwort is this year.Perhaps it's more that most people don't tend to make such a big fuss about it when they see it as you are??

Don't worry I don't feel at all humiliated,although am a little confused as to how my post wasn't to do with the thread??

Just an observation but you don't appear to be able to cope well with others questioning your judgement,with that in mind starting a thread such as this on a public forum might not have been the way to go.....................................................................
		
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so are you saying that if you see ragwort in your field you would leave it?  Im afraid to say that people do worry about and there are also owners that do not give a toss.   On the way to my yard there is a field with 6 horses and also a mother and foal and the field is absolutely riddled with it.  So no not all owners give a crap, but most of us do give a crap about ragwort.  If ragwort is got rid of at the start and kept up it will not return as much if people keep on top of it from the start and actually do it properly.


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## brighteyes (25 August 2011)

What if there *is* an HHO forum member with a huge plantation of ragwort and their horses are grazing in it, then?


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## Puppy (25 August 2011)

jemima_too said:



			I am fascinated now, was skewby on holiday before this thread was started because she is now, same as dandelion
		
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Yes, she was


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## DragonSlayer (25 August 2011)

brighteyes said:



			What if there *is* an HHO forum member with a huge plantation of ragwort and their horses are grazing in it, then?
		
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Then Dandelion needs to report it then, to the people who can sort it out.


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## Spring Feather (25 August 2011)

brighteyes said:



			What if there *is* an HHO forum member with a huge plantation of ragwort and their horses are grazing in it, then?
		
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It sounds like there is. It also sounds like he or she's been given the H&H okay to keep their horses in ragwort infested fields because this person _saves_ horses


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## HappyHorses:) (25 August 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			It sounds like there is. It also sounds like he or she's been given the H&H okay to keep their horses in ragwort infested fields because this person _saves_ horses 

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Not ok in my book!  anyone know who it is? 

There is a girl who keeps horses near me and is on her own. She got overwhelmed with the amount of ragwort she had. I got fed up with hearing horsey people slagging her off so rounded up a few friends and we spent a day clearing her fields in exchange for coffee and cake and a big thank you. Not that hard to help if you are able to.


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## DragonSlayer (25 August 2011)

HappyHorses:) said:



			Not ok in my book!  anyone know who it is? 

There is a girl who keeps horses near me and is on her own. She got overwhelmed with the amount of ragwort she had. I got fed up with hearing horsey people slagging her off so rounded up a few friends and we spent a day clearing her fields in exchange for coffee and cake and a big thank you. Not that hard to help if you are able to.
		
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Absolutely, I have attended Ragwort-picking BBQ's before now....


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## Ranyhyn (25 August 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			It sounds like there is. It also sounds like he or she's been given the H&H okay to keep their horses in ragwort infested fields because this person _saves_ horses 

Click to expand...

No no, just that is the OP was who we thought - she's very likely to be lying... that's all.


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## Ibblebibble (25 August 2011)

MrsMozart said:



			The posts have all gone as well 

Click to expand...

awww has the dandelion been pulled up by it's roots like an annoying weed

spring feather and happy horses, no one has said it's ok to have ragwort, people started off giving advice on who to report it to, dandelion didn't want to reveal her own identity or who she was accusing so what more could people do


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## MrsMozart (25 August 2011)

Ibblebibble said:



			awww has the dandelion been pulled up by it's roots like an annoying weed

Click to expand...


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## devonlass (25 August 2011)

Equestrianfriends said:



			so are you saying that if you see ragwort in your field you would leave it?  Im afraid to say that people do worry about and there are also owners that do not give a toss.
		
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Absolutely not,I don't get a lot of rag simply due to type of land and how it's grazed etc,but any I do get is pulled and disposed of as soon as it's seen.

I don't approve or condone keeping horses in fields rife with ragwort,but it's not my place to presume I know all the circumstances of anyone that does and judge them,and it's also not my business to tell them how to manage their horses.

If I had fears for the well being of the animals concerned I would report it to the appropriate organisation.
I understand your point about not so caring owners,I just don't think a thread like this is the best way to determine or address that.


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## Mrs B (25 August 2011)

MrsMozart said:








Click to expand...

Lol, Mrs M! Where DO you find these?


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## Devonshire dumpling (25 August 2011)

Mike007 said:



			Great and constructive post, but please tell me what an obviously sane person like you is doing in this asylum Thanks again for your post .
		
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Cos it was meant as bitter sarcasm,but got a couple thankyous for it and my better side felt guilty so said you are welcome!  haha


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## MrsMozart (25 August 2011)

Mrs B said:



			Lol, Mrs M! Where DO you find these?

Click to expand...


http://www.cosgan.de/smilie.php?wahl=11&ziel=tiere


Left click on the one you want. Then copy and paste the code that comes up in the blue box at the bottom


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## Devonshire dumpling (25 August 2011)

oh and whoever it was who accused me of copying and pasting a million pages ago, of course i copied and  pasted i was being sarcastic and annoyed, do you really think i could be bothered to write pages of text for a load of up their own arses i know it all , and can't be told cretins?

But I was brought up with good manners and of course would never actually say that to anyone, just smile and say you are welcome  XX

I do apologise for any rudeness, i spoke before i thunked!


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## 'S'teamed (25 August 2011)

Who is the Butt of Skewby's venom and lies this time?

Poor Lass, she obviously needs some kind of professional help.


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## Mrs B (25 August 2011)

'S'teamed said:



			Who is the Butt of Skewby's venom and lies this time?

Poor Lass, she obviously needs some kind of professional help.
		
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*snorts with laughter*

So. Do you?


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## 'S'teamed (25 August 2011)

Mrs B said:



			*snorts with laughter*

So. Do you?
		
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Do I know?
Or do I need professional help?


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## jhoward (25 August 2011)

'S'teamed said:



			Do I know?
Or do I need professional help?
		
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proberely both to be fair old steamy one.


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## 'S'teamed (25 August 2011)

jhoward said:



			proberely both to be fair old steamy one. 

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I'll leave you till later, young lady.


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## Lady La La (25 August 2011)

... Do uou have a field full of ragwort, i reckon was the question 

... Its usually you she tries to cyber destroy, isn't it?


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## babymare (25 August 2011)

please do not label all - for 4 years i have on my own rag worted every year( field with 16 and plenty grass so mmmm not sure how big but mmmm)now  im limitedafter 8 weeks on back on morphine  and now back weak - at started of season i pulled 12 barrows of young florrets now me and daughter ( she does not have horse on yard) are pulling as we can but given big yard lots of children with ponies in field and patronising comments i try but why?????? do they understand what it does - im trying but failing to keep  on top and my heart breaks as walk across field and no moving is not an option but wish was - so please some of us understand and try but fail


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## Mrs B (25 August 2011)

'S'teamed said:



			Do I know?
Or do I need professional help?
		
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Either or both.


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## 'S'teamed (25 August 2011)

Lady La La said:



			... Do uou have a field full of ragwort, i reckon was the question 

... Its usually you she tries to cyber destroy, isn't it?
		
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Do I?

What do you think, LaLa?


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## jhoward (25 August 2011)

'S'teamed said:



			I'll leave you till later, young lady.



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OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH spank me  baby


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## Lady La La (25 August 2011)

I know the answer - I dont even need to think (which is handy)


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## 'S'teamed (25 August 2011)

jhoward said:



			OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH spank me  baby 

Click to expand...

racing whip/schooling whip/driving whip/lunge line?

So many choices, so little time.


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## 'S'teamed (25 August 2011)

Lady La La said:



			I know the answer - I dont even need to think (which is handy) 

Click to expand...

It's a Godsend to the rest of us, LaLa, believe me LOL


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## Mrs B (25 August 2011)

'S'teamed said:



			racing whip/schooling whip/driving whip/lunge line?

So many choices, so little time.
		
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Chifney and Vetwrap.


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## 'S'teamed (25 August 2011)

Mrs B said:



			Chifney and Vetwrap.

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Don't forget a cattle prod


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## mymare (25 August 2011)

jemima_too said:



			I am fascinated now, was skewby on holiday before this thread was started because she is now, same as dandelion
		
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Puppy said:



			Yes, she was 

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AGAIN?!  Lol!


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## Mrs B (25 August 2011)

'S'teamed said:



			Don't forget a cattle prod
		
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Yes, but is that for you or her?


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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

Blimey. You lot got busy whilst I was out playing on a twenty foot inflatable slide. It took me ages to catch up with that lot! Good riddance to bad rubbish frankly!


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## Jesstickle (25 August 2011)

joeanne said:





Equestrianfriends said:





jesstickle said:



			Load of old tosh. Paracetamol will only cause liver damage if too much is taken, and the liver function is impared beyond 25%. After that the liver cannot regenerate itself.
The reason we dont write paracetamol causes liver disease is because it CANT....it CAN however cause liver FAILURE if too much is taken at any one point!
		
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Liver disease covers any kind of disruption to liver function. I would have thought this would include liver damage by paracetamol. However, I am no great expert. If it is an imperfect example I apologise profusely. Probably the other example I used, alcohol, is a much better example to model ragwort poisoning as certainly the liver damage caused by drink does become liver disease just like ragwort poisoning does in horses. It really is a moot point anyway now that we're all being friends but again, if you are a hepatologist and I have offended you I really am sorry. 

I should have double checked with my friend the pharmacist before posting I guess!
		
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Click to expand...


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## Fii (25 August 2011)

jesstickle said:





joeanne said:





Equestrianfriends said:



			Liver disease covers any kind of disruption to liver function. I would have thought this would include liver damage by paracetamol. However, I am no great expert. If it is an imperfect example I apologise profusely. Probably the other example I used, alcohol, is a much better example to model ragwort poisoning as certainly the liver damage caused by drink does become liver disease just like ragwort poisoning does in horses. It really is a moot point anyway now that we're all being friends but again, if you are a hepatologist and I have offended you I really am sorry. 

I should have double checked with my friend the pharmacist before posting I guess!
		
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Sooo, i guess it's not a good idea to pull ragwort without gloves after drinking too much brandy, then take a couple of paracetamol for the following headache?? 

Click to expand...



Click to expand...


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## rockysmum (25 August 2011)

Fii said:





jesstickle said:





joeanne said:



			Sooo, i guess it's not a good idea to pull ragwort without gloves after drinking too much brandy, then take a couple of paracetamol for the following headache?? 

Click to expand...

I dont know, sounds like a plan to me.
		
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Click to expand...


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## jhoward (25 August 2011)

'S'teamed said:



			Don't forget a cattle prod
		
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Mrs B said:



			Yes, but is that for you or her?

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is a cattle prod "battery" powered?


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## Fii (25 August 2011)

jhoward said:



			is a cattle prod "battery" powered? 

Click to expand...

Only if you hit someone over the head with it...


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## Lady La La (26 August 2011)

'S'teamed said:



			It's a Godsend to the rest of us, LaLa, believe me LOL 

Click to expand...


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## Jesstickle (26 August 2011)

Fii said:





jesstickle said:





joeanne said:



			Sooo, i guess it's not a good idea to pull ragwort without gloves after drinking too much brandy, then take a couple of paracetamol for the following headache?? 

Click to expand...

Brandy is ok. It's the gin you need to watch for! Bleurgh.  That stuff is definitely bad for your health! 

Click to expand...



Click to expand...


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## Mrs B (26 August 2011)

jesstickle said:





Fii said:





jesstickle said:



			Brandy is ok. It's the gin you need to watch for! Bleurgh.  That stuff is definitely bad for your health! 

Click to expand...

Is it? I thought it counted as one of my 5 a day...

(Mind you, it does make my Cornflakes taste a bit odd)
		
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Click to expand...


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## Jesstickle (26 August 2011)

Mrs B said:





jesstickle said:





Fii said:



			Is it? I thought it counted as one of my 5 a day...

(Mind you, it does make my Cornflakes taste a bit odd)
		
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O god. I feel physically ill at the thought of gin on cornflakes. Bleurghh!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's such hideous stuff.
		
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Click to expand...


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## Mrs B (26 August 2011)

jesstickle said:





Mrs B said:





jesstickle said:



			O god. I feel physically ill at the thought of gin on cornflakes. Bleurghh!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's such hideous stuff.
		
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They're not too bad - you could try Shreddies instead...
		
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Click to expand...


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## Damnation (26 August 2011)

brighteyes said:



			Well I have no idea why you go to these ridiculous lengths, after all, we have been reliably informed by YD that 



And remember it only *may* cause liver damage.

  

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That may be the case, but I know a horse who has ragwort poisoning. He copes with life but I think his time is near tbh. It was caught early, they went to biopsy his liver and it was like mush  Alot of time and money has gone into ensuring that horse is comfortable. He now gets repeated attacks of laminitus, ties up, unable to be ridden as the repeated attacks of laminitus has really taken their toll on his feet.. poor soul 

I would like to add the ragwort poisoning did not happen at my yard!


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## *hic* (26 August 2011)

Damnation said:



			That may be the case, but I know a horse who has ragwort poisoning. He copes with life but I think his time is near tbh. It was caught early, they went to biopsy his liver and it was like mush  Alot of time and money has gone into ensuring that horse is comfortable. He now gets repeated attacks of laminitus, ties up, unable to be ridden as the repeated attacks of laminitus has really taken their toll on his feet.. poor soul 

I would like to add the ragwort poisoning did not happen at my yard!
		
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The "mush" description is rather odd IMHO as I understand ragwort causes cirrhosis, which is characterised by hardening and scarring rather than "mushiness". Certainly the liver damage we look for when we slaughter our pasture-cleaning sheep is hardening. We never find any hardening or "mushiness" though.

There are a lot of horses with liver problems where it is pinned on ragwort, I've never been certain whether this is realistic or convenient. There are a lot of people with liver problems too, but they are investigated rather than being easily lumped together as "ragwort poisoning" just because the liver is involved.


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## Devonshire dumpling (26 August 2011)

jemima_too said:



			The "mush" description is rather odd IMHO as I understand ragwort causes cirrhosis, which is characterised by hardening and scarring rather than "mushiness". Certainly the liver damage we look for when we slaughter our pasture-cleaning sheep is hardening. We never find any hardening or "mushiness" though.

There are a lot of horses with liver problems where it is pinned on ragwort, I've never been certain whether this is realistic or convenient. There are a lot of people with liver problems too, but they are investigated rather than being easily lumped together as "ragwort poisoning" just because the liver is involved.
		
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Thats right, it becomes scared and solid!    Liver problems can even be caused my Lymes disease!  In humans it would be very easy to say yep they got hepatitis, or alcoholic liver disease... but it can come from the pancreas, gall stones etc etc... not everything is black and white!

And as regards paracetamol, of course it can cause liver damage!  Same with any poison.


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## fburton (26 August 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			And as regards paracetamol, of course it can cause liver damage!  Same with any poison.
		
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I don't think it's true to say that all poisons cause (direct) liver damage.


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## Devonshire dumpling (26 August 2011)

fburton said:



			I don't think it's true to say that all poisons cause (direct) liver damage.
		
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of course they will over a time, you may not get acute but defo chronic, your liver will carry on and on and on and on some more, but with abuse one day it suddenly says thats enough, it won't warn you..  some ppl  only need as little as 1/2 glass of wine a day for years and one day their liver will be diseased, where another person it may take a bottle a day to cause the same damage.  Tis a fact!


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## Serenity087 (26 August 2011)

ARGH!

I'm gonna say that it breaks my heart that the lasting legacy of a much loved horse is a piece of legislation no one bats an eyelid to.  Rag is getting worse and worse and worse and heartbreakingly the worst offenders seem to be horse owners.

Why, one wonders?  Because of posts that declare horses won't eat it and would have to eat it by the kilos for days to get sick.

I had a mare almost die on me from ragwort poisoning.  Trust me, she hadn't eaten kilos of rag.  She hadn't eaten kilos of anything.  She was starved half to death.  Ragwort was all she had left and that little she ate was enough to not only cause liver damage, but kidney failure and brain damage.

The only myth on Rag is that poisoned horses are write offs.  THEY DO NOT HAVE TO DIE!  If only owners knew what they were dealing with, could start treatment.

Despite suffering multiple organ failure and some sort of equine depression (ever seen a horse attempt to die of mild colic? I have!) - we saved that horse.

From that came a councillor who fought doggedly to introduce legislation.  A lady who also mourned with us when my beautiful girl lost her life to a lipoma.

But now everyone thinks it's okay, people put the value of a moth (who can exist on plants that are not ragwort and ragwort in it's rosette stage, so no need for 150,000 offspring plants!!!) over the value of our horses.

Yes, rag kills livestock who live long enough and yes, it is one of the five noxious weeds (which whilst aren't notifiable, are recommended to be removed.  I wonder how many horse owners can name all five and remove all five from their paddocks, because I can promise you I do!!!)

I find it ironic beyond belief that SCC is one of the sources in this thread as they're probably nuturing several hundred tonnes of rag throughout the county this summer.  They're ignorant beyond belief on rag and have had this pointed out regularly for years.

But what bugs me the most is why people insist on bickering about it.  I long ago decided if you can't be fecked to put your horse in a safe paddock, well your horse is better off dead than in your care.  Rag is quick for most horses.
I don't care that my neighbours don't rag, although it sickens me, because my horse is safe and in a 99% rag free field.  They probably believe their horses will eat round it (eat what round it, I don't know, the field is a solid mat of rag...)

I've lost my steam when it comes to helping other people and other horses with rag.  I saved Cariad and I do my bit to stop Dorey ever getting sick like it.  You could feed your horse dried rag in a haynet for all I care, having petty spats on an internet forum won't help anyone.

I'm tired of the ragwort battle.  The plant is winning.  It's all I can do to win my tiny wars and I once swore not to rest until it was gone from this country.  Never going to happen.  Breaks my heart.


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## ceiron (26 August 2011)

It's not legally controllable in it's own right. You need a court order first. 

There is varying research to it's toxicity too.


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## fburton (27 August 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



*of course they will over a time*, you may not get acute but defo chronic, your liver will carry on and on and on and on some more, but with abuse one day it suddenly says thats enough, it won't warn you..  some ppl  only need as little as 1/2 glass of wine a day for years and one day their liver will be diseased, where another person it may take a bottle a day to cause the same damage.  Tis a fact!
		
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'Tis not, I'm afraid. The key phrase is "over a time". Many poisons can kill _before_ there is any liver damage. (In that case, the liver will become damaged _after_ death of course, but that's because it's been deprived of a blood supply, not because the poison is having a direct effect on it!)

That said, I support what you posted earlier, especially the 'information sheet'. I think ragwort is a serious problem, but I am also against scare-mongering.


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## amandap (27 August 2011)

I remove the small amount of ragwort on my land but reading stuff like this does make me want to know more and the truth. http://www.ragwortfacts.com/index.html

According to this the effects are only cumulative if liver is damaged and for liver to be damaged a toxic dose has to be eaten in one go. It states small amounts over time do not cause damage as the body can deal with low level of toxins...
makes sense to me.
Mta... my main worry has always been about ragwort in hay but how right I may be I have no real idea.

As an aside... I have personal experience of giving un treated, ground fresh linseed now to my horses for well over a year with no toxic affects. I believe linseed is given to horses in many countries without cooking including USA and Australia... 

Disclaimer... this is my opinion and experience do your own research and come to your own conclusions.


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## ceiron (27 August 2011)

also according to current surveys ragwort is at the same level as every year and if anything is decreasing.

its more noticable this year i am guessing due to the freaky weather.

also pulling it by hand is harmless as the toxic chemical is only activated in digestion and cant pass into the blood stream via skin contact as it is not present then.

i think it should be pulled in grazing but its not major.


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## fburton (27 August 2011)

ceiron said:



			also pulling it by hand is harmless as the toxic chemical is only activated in digestion and cant pass into the blood stream via skin contact as it is not present then.
		
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There's more than one toxic chemical in ragwort - so I would still recommend wearing gloves for pulling. I pulled a whole field once without gloves and didn't feel very well at the end of it (nasty headache). That could have been a coincidence, of course, but I always wear gloves now just in case.


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## Dobiegirl (27 August 2011)

ceiron said:



			also according to current surveys ragwort is at the same level as every year and if anything is decreasing.

its more noticable this year i am guessing due to the freaky weather.

also pulling it by hand is harmless as the toxic chemical is only activated in digestion and cant pass into the blood stream via skin contact as it is not present then.

i think it should be pulled in grazing but its not major.
		
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Where are you getting this info from, there have been scientific studies showing that the toxins pass through the skin. If you read back through my earlier posts and the reply by Murphysminder you will see who did these studies.


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## team barney (27 August 2011)

fburton said:



			There's more than one toxic chemical in ragwort - so I would still recommend wearing gloves for pulling. I pulled a whole field once without gloves and didn't feel very well at the end of it (nasty headache). That could have been a coincidence, of course, but I always wear gloves now just in case.
		
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I second this, always wear gloves when pulling ragwort, it is toxic to humans too and I believe can enter the blood stream through your skin.


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## lovekita (27 August 2011)

Hi,
I stopped reading p6... there are too much pages.
Well first of all, If we have a problem with someone only, we go talk to this person alone or by private messages due to we all in this forum... How old are you seriously? 

Secondo, a horse eat what is good for him and he can smell if the plant have poison. In the wild, there are a lot of toxic plants that horses NEVER touch and if they do, its because there have a problem of smell or they are too angry (but even that, they wont touch it normally)

Last but not least, Leave the people how care about horses alone! There are to many horses that are locked in a very small place with no food or no water... go look for them and complain the owners. Not the ones how care for their horses!


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## lovekita (27 August 2011)

Serenity087 said:



			ARGH!
I had a mare almost die on me from ragwort poisoning.  Trust me, she hadn't eaten kilos of rag.  She hadn't eaten kilos of anything.  *She was starved half to death*.  Ragwort was all she had left and that little she ate was enough to not only cause liver damage, but kidney failure and brain damage. 

Click to expand...

She was skinny... only bones on her I suppose? Here, only a small quantity could have killed her BUT with normal horses (horses in shape) the risque is very low!
But, I never will say that is fine to eat a small quantity. If we can prevent it, we will.


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