# Horse body language



## little_critter (25 May 2013)

Hoping some body language experts can help. 
What does it mean when a mare rests her head on your shoulder. Mine usually does this when I'm pulling her mane, I take is as her saying 'please don't do that'
This evening she did it in the field while we were having a soppy cuddle and a scratch. 
I'd be interested to know what she is saying.


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## Rosiejazzandpia (25 May 2013)

Im also intrested. Both my mares do this frequently, also when having a cuddle and a fuss in the field


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## texel (25 May 2013)

Hi - here is an extract from Julie Goodnight explaining the behaviour you describe;  

" As for the head resting behavior, there are two critical facts of horse behavior you must know and understand. First, space. The horse should NEVER be allowed to come into your space uninvited by you. If he does, he controls your space and is therefore dominant over you.

(I_ would add that there is a possiblilty of the horse making a sudden movemnt in response to a noise - remember they are flight animals). _

Secondly, horses display dominance over their &#8216;playmates&#8217; by reaching over the subordinate&#8217;s withers with their head and neck. That&#8217;s why when you are stroking your horse in praise, you should always take that opportunity to reach over his withers as a ploy of dominance (not with your head- that would be stupidly dangerous, but with your arm).

 I would never allow my horse to put his head on me. Besides, it is dangerous to have your head that close to a horse&#8217;s head. Biting is the most dominant behavior of horses and biting is the end result in a series of progressive behaviors. The first in the series is lipping behavior, then comes nipping then comes biting. 

All of these are progressive tests of dominance and so far you are failing this test. I would not allow any horse to ever put his lips on or near me. If I want to show some affection to my horse, which I do, once he has become totally and completely subordinate to me, I will rub him vigorously in his sweet spot (look for puckered lips) and/or rub down his face. While I will not let the horse reciprocate this affection, these moments can be very close and intimate with the horse. However, these grooming sessions are initiated entirely by me and ended by me (the dominant member in our herd of two)."

As with all interactions with horses *you must initiate the action * whatever it happens to be, not the horse.  You know your horse and his temperament.

Being human we seek affection from our horses and we like to think they can show affection however during the many years I have studied and observed horses I have learnt to accept that their idea of 'affection' (for want of a better word)  is no where near ours i.e. they do not cuddle etc.  Their world is all about dominance and submission.


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## little_critter (25 May 2013)

Thanks Texel. She's a pretty independent mare.  tonight was the first time in 2 years she has come over for a cuddle. Usually I can't prise her away from eating grass. 
I suspected the resting on my shoulder while mane pulling was a dominance thing but she confused me tonight because it felt like she was accepting me and giving me her time instead of eating.


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## mandwhy (25 May 2013)

Not having a go at you here Texel but I find what I have seen of Julie Goodnight to be too simplistic and a bit obsessed about being dominant over the horse. In fact I am surprised she mentions petting them at all! I completely understand hierarchy plays a big part, but I wouldn't agree that a horse is doing this particular thing to be dominant every time.

My mare does this sometimes resting her head on my folded arms or shoulder, just as she sometimes does it on the wooden post she is tied to. Is she trying to dominate the post? Sometimes she is a bit fed up e.g. if I am oiling or plaiting her mane, other times I think she is just tired and resting her head, especially on a hot day when the flies have been bugging her. She does it to my boyfriend a lot if he stands with her while I am tacking her up, sighing a lot!


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## Caol Ila (26 May 2013)

The obsession with "dominance" is very human.  Julie Goodnight's theories are not the only paradigm out there.  Other equine ethologists have observed dominance behaviour with regards to control over resources, mainly amongst domestic herds, but suggest that there are more communitarian relationships amongst herds where resources are less finite (by finite, I mean getting through a gate, arguing over piles of hay, living in small, fenced off spaces, etc.).  They also surmise that the hierarchy is fluid and situational and, at any rate, thinking solely in terms of dominance isn't that helpful for training.  

In any case, I have let my mare rest her head on my shoulder for 14 years and no ill has come of it.


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## Aarrghimpossiblepony (26 May 2013)

texel said:



			Hi - here is an extract from Julie Goodnight explaining the behaviour you describe;  

" As for the head resting behavior, there are two critical facts of horse behavior you must know and understand. First, space. The horse should NEVER be allowed to come into your space uninvited by you. If he does, he controls your space and is therefore dominant over you.

(I_ would add that there is a possiblilty of the horse making a sudden movemnt in response to a noise - remember they are flight animals). _

Secondly, horses display dominance over their playmates by reaching over the subordinates withers with their head and neck. Thats why when you are stroking your horse in praise, you should always take that opportunity to reach over his withers as a ploy of dominance (not with your head- that would be stupidly dangerous, but with your arm).

 I would never allow my horse to put his head on me. Besides, it is dangerous to have your head that close to a horses head. Biting is the most dominant behavior of horses and biting is the end result in a series of progressive behaviors. The first in the series is lipping behavior, then comes nipping then comes biting. 

All of these are progressive tests of dominance and so far you are failing this test. I would not allow any horse to ever put his lips on or near me. If I want to show some affection to my horse, which I do, once he has become totally and completely subordinate to me, I will rub him vigorously in his sweet spot (look for puckered lips) and/or rub down his face. While I will not let the horse reciprocate this affection, these moments can be very close and intimate with the horse. However, these grooming sessions are initiated entirely by me and ended by me (the dominant member in our herd of two)."

As with all interactions with horses *you must initiate the action * whatever it happens to be, not the horse.  You know your horse and his temperament.

Being human we seek affection from our horses and we like to think they can show affection however during the many years I have studied and observed horses I have learnt to accept that their idea of 'affection' (for want of a better word)  is no where near ours i.e. they do not cuddle etc.  Their world is all about dominance and submission.
		
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Have to say,
"what a nutter"

Why any of these people have anything to do with horses in the first place is a mystery as they come across as being pathologically terrified of them.

Perhaps we should coin a new word/s
"horsephobic"
"horseaphobia"

omg, it's touching me.


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## little_critter (26 May 2013)

The other replies make more sense to me. I totally trust my mare not to take my ear off when she rests her head on my shoulder and it had a feeling of closeness rather than dominance last night. 
I will cherish the moment, she's not a cuddly girl and usually focuses on grazing but we had a lovely 20 minutes scratching and fussing and her attention was on me, not the grass. I felt accepted.


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## HBM1 (26 May 2013)

Sorry I don't hold with her view at all. Maybe in new relationships possibly, but I have had all my horses a  very long time and two of them I have bred. There is no way mine do this as a dominance thing. I hug their chests and they close their heads down on me. It is never hard, always gentle. As for horses "not cuddling" maybe they dont know that term, but theycertainly know affection. My horses seek each other out and nuzzle each other with nothing but gentle affection on their faces.


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## Rouletterose (26 May 2013)

my horses often nuzzle into me very gently and politely and it's a sign of affection as far as I am concerned, I've had horses for 53 years and had all sorts and competed lots, my horses 'look' for me all the time but they certainly dont dominate me in any way shape or form.

OP take it that your horse LOVES YOU.


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## hnmisty (26 May 2013)

Wow. The Goodnight explanation seems a bit OTT to me 

I really fail to see how a horse resting its head on your shoulder is any of the cr*p ranted off there.

The horse must never enter uninvited into your space? I love it when mine come up to me in the field, either to say hello or because they're curious about what I'm doing. I couldn't think of much worse than shoving them away because "I didn't invite them closer". 

I've got to say, from that quote, I feel sorry for any horse whose owner/rider follows that woman's teachings!


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## Fluffy bunny (26 May 2013)

My horse does this when she is in a soppy mood and will actually doze off resting gently on my shoulder. I love it )


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## oldie48 (26 May 2013)

Perhaps some folks find it's more acceptable to talk about clear boundaries than dominent/submissive behaviour but i think it's always important to try to ensure you are in a safe position when handling horses even when they are your "best friend" No, I wouldn't allow horse to rest on my shoulder, I'm not there to prop him up and he's teeth are too close to my face. Also, if something suddenly startled him, he could easily bash me in the face. Of course we all think nothing like this will happen but unfortunately, they do. If I want a cuddle which is recipricated, I stick to humans.


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## Meowy Catkin (26 May 2013)

horses display dominance over their playmates by reaching over the subordinates withers with their head and neck.
		
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My young gelding plays with the mares (when he can get them to join in ) and he is often seen resting his head on the chestnut mare's back. He is definitely bottom of the pack and she is at the top. The interesting thing is that he is more likely to do this if the grey is being grumpy towards him.


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## Hippona (26 May 2013)

Wow. Mentalist
I couldn't get near my horse when I got him. So for him to choose to come to me and sniffle my face and hair, and point his arse end at me for a scratch .....I take as a sign he's happy to be with me, not dominant over me...'

The other one wraps his head and neck around you when being groomed, he tucks his face in my armpit.....that doesn't seem like dominance to me


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## texel (26 May 2013)

Yes I did wonder how you folks would react to the Julie Goodnight quote 

As I did say at the end of my reply:

As with all interactions with horses you must initiate the action whatever it happens to be, not the horse. You know your horse and his temperament.

Being human we seek affection from our horses and we like to think they can show affection however during the many years I have studied and observed horses I have learnt to accept that their idea of 'affection' (for want of a better word) is no where near ours i.e. they do not cuddle etc. Their world is all about dominance and submission and I add here subtlety. 

Horses are very subtle in their interactions with each other and us, dominant behaviour does not necessarily mean gnashing of teeth and barging for example.  It can be as subtle as making you move your feet.   

It is also knowing that curiosity such as sniffing etc is not showing dominance. 

My chap does rest his head on my shoulder and he does this after I walk up to him and start to massage his neck. As I said as long as you initiate the action.  I am not talking about wildly waving your arms, sticks or whatever else. 

However how you interpret your horse's actions is up to you at the end of the day and as I said you all know your horse and his/her temperament.

How lovely the sun is out and I can see blue sky .............  off to the field later for a cuddle !


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## Hippona (26 May 2013)

Why can't the horse initiate? 

It's not a relationship surely if one party holds all the power all the time....


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## GeorgeyGal (26 May 2013)

I agree with what the others have said about knowing and trusting your horse, a bit different than letting an unknown horse wander over and plonk it's head on you. If you already have a trusting relationship I see no issue with this, anyway shouldn't we put trust in our horses or why should they trust us? We put our lives in their hoofs every day! I understand laying down the boundaries if they are not already established but I would take this for what it is, I'm sure most owners can sense what is acceptable and when it's not. I think we can get too bogged down with 'acting like a horse', of course we can use their 'language' as an advantage but they are not stupid they know we are not a horse.


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## little_critter (26 May 2013)

To put her actions in context. It didn't feel dominating. I invited her over and started the stroking/scratching. The rest of her body language was passive and relaxed. 
I did make a point of resting my hand on her withers this morning but it didn't initiate any reaction from her. 
Ref teeth close to faces, I guess letting her sniff my minty toothpaste breath is a big no-no then!
(Just to add while I trust her near my head I am always alert and conscious of her actions and attitude, I'm ready to push her 
away if need be)
Also ref gently dominant behaviour, if she wants to move round the stable and I'm in her way, tough! She has to walk round me not through me. 
I feel we have a give and take relationship. I have the final say but I don't seek to always reinforce my dominance and keep her under the thumb. There is give and take on both sides but there are clear rules and boundaries that she is not allowed to cross. 
Maybe look at the 50/50 rule that Michael Peace uses.


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## Meowy Catkin (26 May 2013)

Their world is all about dominance and submission and I add here subtlety.
		
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That's far too simplistic.

Horses also have friends. Anyone who watches a herd of horses regularly will see that some horses like to spend their time with certain members of the herd and not others. This is independent to the 'pecking order' that comes into effect when waiting for their turn to drink at the water trough (for example).


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## teabiscuit (26 May 2013)

Oh dear, I feel sorry for Ms Goodnight's horses.


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## texel (26 May 2013)

indeed Faracat the 'pecking order' is a product of dominance and submission.

Horses have a simplistic way of life - on the other hand we humans are far too complicated !

Have a lovely day everyone - and tomorrow is a bank holiday yipeeee


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## Rosiejazzandpia (26 May 2013)

Agree with Faracat but cant quote. On the livery yard my shared horse is at all 18 horses are turned out together on over 30 acres. Its intresting to sit and watch them when you have time because there are friendship groups within the herd. There are 4 horses who are always together, and within that 2 of the ponies are best mates. Another group of 3 are always together and we have 2 cobs who like to cause trouble together. Horses are fiends with each other in ways other than the herd leader and the submissive horses


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## FinnishLapphund (26 May 2013)

I haven't googled Julie Goodnight, but it is possible that she has a background that involves dogs, and then transferred dog language into horse language? In dog language, it can definitely be a dominance signal if a dog puts their head on another dog's back, but on the other hand, then she doesn't know that much about dog language either, because just as there is nuances in human language, there is also nuances in dog language, one signal can sometimes mean different things, depending on what other signals it is combined with/in what situation it is used. E.g. if two dogs are sleeping in the same bed, and one of the dogs ends up with their head over the other dog's back, it doesn't have to have anything to do with dominance, it can be just about sleeping comfortably with something to rest their head at. 

Besides, most dogs can learn that human signals doesn't have to mean the same as their equivalent in dog language, so why would horses only be able to read our body language in horse terms? I believe that horses can recognise that we're not horses, and that horse language can have nuances, just like human or dog language. My biggest problem with what Julie Goodnight have written is the lack of nuance, I believe that a horse can walk up to you in a dominant way, invading your personal space in a dominant way, but I'm sure that they can also walk up to you or invade your personal space without it having to do with them trying to dominant you. 
For example, I've heard Tobbe Larsson ( http://www.tobbelarsson.com/omtobbe.php ) talk about that when his horses thinks something can be dangerous or scary, they almost want to come up in to his lap, because to them, he is safety, he will take care of them.


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## WandaMare (26 May 2013)

I must be very submissive then because my horse did it the day I went to try her  The dealer let me ride her in the indoor school then take her for a hack. When I got back he met me and we chatted. Mare stood behind me then stepped forward and rested her head on my shoulder.......that was it for me, sold! She's never tried to dominate me or hurt me in any way, she's a gentle giant and if she wants to come to me and rest her head on me she'll always be very welcome !


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## little_critter (26 May 2013)

Just thought of something I was told ref human body language: you need to look at the whole picture, not just individual gestures. 
For example crossed arms and legs is meant to be an example of blocking and being defensive. However if the whole picture is of a relaxed friendly person it may just be that they find crossed arms and legs more comfortable. 
Just a thought...


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## Aarrghimpossiblepony (26 May 2013)

teabiscuit said:



			Oh dear, I feel sorry for Ms Goodnight's horses.
		
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Not half as sorry as I feel for the people and their horses who follow this guff.

The tone in that extract is bordering on the hysterical.
This bit in particular,

"I would never allow my horse to put his head on me. Besides, it is dangerous to have your head that close to a horses head. Biting is the most dominant behavior of horses and biting is the end result in a series of progressive behaviors. The first in the series is lipping behavior, then comes nipping then comes biting."

So when you're hanging upside down over a back foot poking around with a hoof pick, that's safer?

Ooops, I forgot, horses who want to bite your ear off to show their dominance (as they all do of course, don't trust the bu**ers) can't work out that kicking your head in would be far more effective.


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## Meowy Catkin (26 May 2013)

indeed Faracat the 'pecking order' is a product of dominance and submission.
		
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Of course it is. My point was that it isn't the be all and end all.


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## WelshD (26 May 2013)

My pony likes to get his face bear mine which involves him resting his head on my chest or shoulder, I don't mind that, it's obviously something he has always done and he is so small it's darn handy when you need to do up combo rugs! I have to say though that if he started to nip or mouth me I think I would call that too risky for comfort 

The wording in that article does indeed read like the standard stuff dog behaviourists say so I wonder if the writer has simply decided that's how all animals should be treated?


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## FinnishLapphund (26 May 2013)

WelshD said:



			The wording in that article does indeed read like the standard stuff dog behaviourists say so I wonder if the writer has simply decided that's how all animals should be treated?
		
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 Glad I'm not the only one thinking it sounded like something from the dog world. If she has basically just exchanged dogs to horses, she wouldn't be the first one to do something like that. As I recall, there was a study from the 1920's that was based on a flock of hens and their pecking order, that then somehow became the norm, and many people was convinced that that was how all flocks/herds/packs of animals worked, e.g. some dog books from 1980's, and perhaps even later, can include beliefs about how a pack of dogs or wolves function together, basically based on that study about how a flock of hens functioned.   Or maybe that is what she has read about, and her beliefs about horse language is based on hens?


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## fburton (26 May 2013)

There's absolutely nothing wrong with letting a horse do rest its head on your shoulder if you're comfortable with it and you stay safe.

Why do some people insist on interpreting every other behaviour as signifying dominance??  (I have an idea it has to do with fear or lack of confidence, but that's another story.) Personally I believe that 'pecking order', while it may be important for horses in some situations - in deciding who has control over scarce resources, as Caol Ila said - is (or should be) irrelevant when it comes to training horses and our other interactions with them. Yes, one can start playing dominance games by emulating the alpha mare, but that can lead to all sorts of problems. In any case, it seems to me to be an unnecessary distraction from the business of training.

Here's a nice article on dominance and personal space on the Epona TV blog:

http://epona.tv/blog/2013/january/spaced-out


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## Aarrghimpossiblepony (26 May 2013)

fburton said:



			There's absolutely nothing wrong with letting a horse do rest its head on your shoulder if you're comfortable with it and you stay safe.

*Why do some people insist on interpreting every other behaviour as signifying dominance??  (I have an idea it has to do with fear or lack of confidence, but that's another story.)* Personally I believe that 'pecking order', while it may be important for horses in some situations - in deciding who has control over scarce resources, as Caol Ila said - is (or should be) irrelevant when it comes to training horses and our other interactions with them. Yes, one can start playing dominance games by emulating the alpha mare, but that can lead to all sorts of problems. In any case, it seems to me to be an unnecessary distraction from the business of training.

Here's a nice article on dominance and personal space on the Epona TV blog:

http://epona.tv/blog/2013/january/spaced-out

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We all know people who love horses but who can't for some reason or the other, usually fear, deal with them.
Just like you meet some people who are socially hopeless.

The amount of money being made by "professionals" appealing to these people is staggering.
And the underlying theme seems to be "the fear is justified and we will tell you how to become the boss and lose the fear".

Snake oil salesmen.
Would be more honest to tell them they are sniverling cowards and go buy a chiwawa.
Too harsh???


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## TrasaM (26 May 2013)

I read the Goodyear quote and though I'd got it all wrong I then read ALL the replies and Whew, relief   when I first met share horse he came up to me and nuzzled my neck..I took it as a greeting and him checking me out. My friend's very large mare will frequently come to me and put her head to my chest or I get a horsey kiss..bit yucky that when she's got a grassy muddy nose but she's a very affectionate lady and has fallen asleep before with her head on my shoulder. Also  it's quite usual to see her fast asleep with her head resting  on the withers of her field mate although he's the one who moves her around and is in charge.  Bit handy having a cob who's shorter than you to use as a pillow


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## fburton (26 May 2013)

Aarrghimpossiblepony said:



			Snake oil salesmen.
Would be more honest to tell them they are sniverling cowards and go buy a chiwawa.
Too harsh???

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A wee bit harsh, yes! I think in many cases people embrace the dominance paradigm because it is part of the package or philosophy ('Natural Horsemanship') they have chosen to follow. Believing that one must be seen by horses as the dominant partner is one way to achieve a degree of confidence that brings success in handling. There is no doubt that it works for many people, and that reinforces belief in the theory. However, it is not the only way that works, and there are other ways of developing confidence.


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## teabiscuit (26 May 2013)

'Ere we go, me favrite nuno oliveira quote, "the horse is then a partner, rather than a slave who is enforced to obey a rigid master by constraint". Another one "give him confidence and show him he has nothing to fear". I wonder if he enjoyed letting his horses rest their heads on his shoulder?  I like to think he did.


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## Cortez (26 May 2013)

Unlike most on here, I am not a person who likes having horses "cuddle" or be "affectionate"; that's what I have pet dogs and cats for. Most horses in my experience don't like being fussed around with and would just as soon you gave them the ruddy food and b**gerd off and left them alone. I do have a friend who does the whole kissing and scratching the itchy bit stuff, and her horses are the rudest, most unpleasant creatures (also pretty much unrideable too). "Pet" horses are a reasonably recent phenomenon, I prefer to treat mine as working animals with good manners and mutual respect. And they are not "dominated", hit, abused or frightened. They are quiet, relaxed, reliable and obedient, as they are required to be.


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## siennamum (26 May 2013)

I love grooming, fussing and cuddling my horses. Always have, some aren't bothered, but of the 12 on our yard they all love being fussed and groomed once you find the right spot.

Sienna adores people, and will hook her nose round a passing strager and encourage them to stop and scratch her shoulders, she also likes being scratched under the chin and will often rest her head on your shoulder in an ecstatic trance.

She and Will sharing a moment..... ( as you can see she is just dead vicious & clearly dominating)

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...0274513516199.322522.535976198&type=3&theater


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## teabiscuit (26 May 2013)

I leave mine in peace to eat, separate issue. A pet horse can be respectful and well behaved,  no one told me they were mutually exclusive Cortez.


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## HBM1 (26 May 2013)

Cortez said:



			Unlike most on here, I am not a person who likes having horses "cuddle" or be "affectionate"; that's what I have pet dogs and cats for. Most horses in my experience don't like being fussed around with and would just as soon you gave them the ruddy food and b**gerd off and left them alone. I do have a friend who does the whole kissing and scratching the itchy bit stuff, and her horses are the rudest, most unpleasant creatures (also pretty much unrideable too). "Pet" horses are a reasonably recent phenomenon, I prefer to treat mine as working animals with good manners and mutual respect. And they are not "dominated", hit, abused or frightened. They are quiet, relaxed, reliable and obedient, as they are required to be.
		
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Not all horses who are cuddled and kissed end up this way.  Mine are well-mannered and respectful, but yes, they are much-loved and I show them a great deal of affection.  My stallion (who I bred), is just coming under saddle and he is proving the most easy, willing, well-behaved young horse to do.  Affection does not always mean bad manners and oafs.


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## Spring Feather (26 May 2013)

When a human puts their hand in the air it can mean all manner of things from telling you to STOP, to a QUESTION or right down to a friendly HELLO.  I feel the same about horses (and dogs when they paw you).  Yes in some contexts a horse putting its head on your shoulder could mean dominance but it can also mean a friendly tactile gesture.  It all depends upon the context in which the behaviour was initiated and executed imo.


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## YorksG (26 May 2013)

We have kept small herds of mares for many years and have witnessed the changes in leadershp in different situations. The amount of co-operation between them is astonishing, if you think only in a dominance/sumbission paradigm. We have seen that leadership can change, depending on far more than horses health. We have usually found that the horse who is in charge, is the quiet calm mare, who give confidence and support to the others. The bossy 'domminanat' one, ends up relying on the calm mare in a crisis. I think the quote from Julie Goodnight is bunkum, and the result of observing with a closed mind.


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## little_critter (26 May 2013)

Seems I've sparked an interesting discussion! I think I'll carry on with my gut feeling and our 2 way discussion with my girl.


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## mandwhy (26 May 2013)

Glad I'm not the only one who thought it was extreme. Totally agree about the dog comparison, e.g. dogs learn that when we bare our teeth it is normally a friendly happy thing, and humans don't snarl or show teeth to be aggressive. I am sure horses and dogs are just as capable of making these distinctions. 

I do like to maintain a firm position around my haffy especially as they have a tendency to be bargey and rude if allowed to get away with it, but just like with a dominant mare that doesn't mean I stand round barking orders and keeping all beings away from me at all times! 

My mare actually did the head resting thing today, she does seem to do it when she is hot and tired or weary of flies! I had already fed them and was passing back through from the village, I went over and stroked her on the shoulder, she rested her head on me and I patted her for a minute, then she wondered off to graze, it was just a friendly gesture I think. 

Human body language is so complex, e.g. a person comes and puts their hand on your shoulder, are they comforting you, reassuring you, just being friendly and tactile, is tactile behaviour welcomed from that particular person, e.g. a boss you don't know very well it might be more patronising, deliberately invading your space or even dominating in some way... God its hard enough to read the body language of our own species let alone others


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## Equilibrium Ireland (26 May 2013)

I think Cortez's explanation sums it up for me. As well as York G. My dominate mare is quiet and calm. She keeps everyone else calm in scary situations as well. I also have one obnoxious mare who I could never put out with horses lacking confidence. But she is also very good with the youngest member of the herd. Although she lacks nothing in the confidence department. I've seen some amazing things in the working of these mares over the years but will not bore you.

Mine all love to be brushed. As far as lovey dovey stuff. No not really. Some can stand to be cuddled and oggled over but they're horses. I don't have them to be love bugs. But I also don't try to dominate them. Boundries are set but the foremost thing in my mind is always confidence. I want horses to be as confident as they can bee. And that's with people and in herds. A horse can be confident and still be at the bottom of the pecking order. If they lack confidence in a herd situation it can be equally as damaging. We get a few unhandled horses in for starting. If I were to try and dominate them things would not work out so well. They come in very defensive. They do not understand boundries. So it's a process that means in the first few days we ignore certain behaviors others would not agree with. However, they come to hand quickly and boundries are set along the way and we never have issues. Having confidence doesn't mean they challenge you or push your boundries. Simply means they trust what you ask of them. By the way by bad behavior I don't mean kicking or biting. It just means certain things are ignored until they learn. But once they start learning these roadblocks aren't issues. It's hard to explain. 

Terri


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## little_critter (26 May 2013)

I don't usually fuss over my girl much because she doesn't reciprocate and would rather be eating. The difference was that yesterday she came over to me (invited) and wanted attention so I gave it to her. Had she been focused on grazing she would have had a goodnight pat and I'd have left it at that. 
She respects boundaries and I can wander in and out of her stable with the door open and she doesn't try to barge out. Her manners are very good, hence why I feel I can trust her.


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## LeneHorse (26 May 2013)

The only time my mare behaves like this is when she is in season. Usually she is very stand-offish and dislikes human contact but when she is in season she becomes quite affectionate and will sometimes rest her head on my arm.
How does this fit in with the dominance theories?
She also likes to rest her head on the farrier's bum when he is doing her fronts. What does this mean??


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## fburton (26 May 2013)

LeneHorse said:



			The only time my mare behaves like this is when she is in season. Usually she is very stand-offish and dislikes human contact but when she is in season she becomes quite affectionate and will sometimes rest her head on my arm.
How does this fit in with the dominance theories?
		
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Does it need to have anything to do with dominance? I don't think so!


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## LeneHorse (26 May 2013)

fburton said:



			Does it need to have anything to do with dominance? I don't think so!
		
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Sorry I think you misunderstood my post. I didn't say I thought it was dominance. I was asking those who earlier posted a theory that head resting was dominant behaviour, to explain why my horse only does it when she is in season.


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## fburton (26 May 2013)

LeneHorse said:



			Sorry I think you misunderstood my post. I didn't say I thought it was dominance. I was asking those who earlier posted a theory that head resting was dominant behaviour, to explain why my horse only does it when she is in season.
		
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Apologies for not being clearer - my question/statement was to everyone in general, not to you specifically.


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## paddi22 (26 May 2013)

But surely just like people, some horses respond better to affection and touching than others. I have one guy who is the boss in the field and while an absolute polite gent, he just doesn't do affection/touch at all. 

I have another one who while still polite and respectful of your space, absolutely enjoys as much physical interaction as possible, but in a playful and gentle way. I always imagine that if he was a human he'd be the friend who links your arm or throws his arms around your shoulder.


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