# Any fellow Puggle Owners!?



## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

As the title really, interested to see if anyone owns a puggle


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## galaxy (17 November 2011)

Sorry....  being naieve.... what's a "puggle"  a pug x ????


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

It's a Pug x Beagle


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## s4sugar (17 November 2011)

A puggle is a baby echidna and ownership is illegal. 

Pugs crossed with beagles are bred by puppy farmers and sold to gullible purchasers. It is an horrendous mixture.


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## Cop-Pop (17 November 2011)

I thought it was just a 'cute' name for a Pug  

I bet they look a bit strange!


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## galaxy (17 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			It's a Pug x Beagle 

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oh right.  Is there a reason for crossing those breeds?  Or a mistake?


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## Cinnamontoast (17 November 2011)

Please tell me that wasn't a deliberate breeding!


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## MurphysMinder (17 November 2011)

Whilst I agree with all the comments about designer breeds (pretty sure my views on them are well known on here), lets remember that this is someones much loved pet, presumably the OP didn't breed their puggle so lets give them a break eh.


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

Jesus, this is the most bitchiess forum I have ever come aross. I Asked an innocent question and you all jump down my throats!!!


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## Dobiegirl (17 November 2011)

OP are you thinking of getting one or do you own one, if so would love to see photos.


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

I own one and he is the most gorgeous dog ever, we get complimented everywhere we go.


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## galaxy (17 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			Jesus, this is the most bitchiess forum I have ever come aross. I Asked an innocent question and you all jump down my throats!!!
		
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OP, I hope you didn't get the wrong end of the stick with my question.  I was genuinely interested!  

A lot of cross breeds are bred for good purpose!  My own dogs breed (German Shorthaired Pointer) was only established in the 1940s so hardly an old "pure" breed!


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## Dobiegirl (17 November 2011)

Well its compulsary to post pics of your dog.


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

That wasn't aimed at you galaxy23, but the others that tell me it's illegal to own one and that surely it's not a deliberate breeding!!!!

Dobiegir - I would love to
Post pics but I have a feeling people will be quick to comment an be horrible!!!


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## Dobiegirl (17 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			That wasn't aimed at you galaxy23, but the others that tell me it's illegal to own one and that surely it's not a deliberate breeding!!!!

Dobiegir - I would love to
Post pics but I have a feeling people will be quick to comment an be horrible!!!
		
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I think most people on this forum (me Included) are against byb people who breed to make a quick buck without health testing. We have nothing against people who buy them or if its an accidental breeding. There are quite a few people on this forum who are involved in rescue and they are the people picking up the pieces when things go wrong. If you are a designer breeder expect to get a rough ride but If this is not the case you are very welcome from me.

I would genuinely love to see pics of your dog and no one will make a horrible comment about him or her, we are all dog lovers on this forum with pedigree and cross breeds of our own.


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

I am not a breeder but we did purchase him from a breeder. We read up about the breed for years before we decided to buy one.
He is the most loveable, intelligent, loyal dog I have ever come across. And most of all he is fantastic with my 8 month old son.


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## s4sugar (17 November 2011)

It is illegal to own a puggle which is not a dog but the juvenile of an endangered marsupial. 
You didn't find that out in all the research?
People who purchase designer breeds are as guilty as those who breed them of perpetuating irresponsible breeding. 
These are bred for the puppy petshop, sell it while it is cute, trade but soon grow into the sort of dog that gets overlooked in rescue kennels.
If you have a oops one call it what it is -a cross breed. If you went out and bought one shame on you and I hope you have learned from you mistake. Your dog may be a sweetie but this cross mixes two very different characters & temperaments and the resultant puppies can have construction, health & mental issues. What about the rest of the litter & the parents?


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## Dobiegirl (17 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			I am not a breeder but we did purchase him from a breeder. We read up about the breed for years before we decided to buy one.
He is the most loveable, intelligent, loyal dog I have ever come across. And most of all he is fantastic with my 8 month old son.
		
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He sounds lovely and Im guessing his name is Peanuts, my best friend used to own Pugs who often stayed with me and were lovely. My mother used to own a Beagle so I would love to see some pics of your boy.


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

S4sugar - tell someone who's interested!!!!

Dobiegirl - he is absolutely adorable.  I am not a fan of Pugs myself but the puggle has the best traits from both. He actually gets mistaken for a boxer most of the time  
His name isn't peanuts actually, that was my sons name when I was pregnant with him!!!


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## Dobiegirl (17 November 2011)

S4Sugar that is very harsh, not everyone has your experience and people respond better when treated like adults. 

We all know on here the perils of buying designing dogs and Im sure you also know my feelings on people who breed them. We also know how many people feed Bakers but as I said people respond better when treated like adults.


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## s4sugar (17 November 2011)

Sorry if it seems harsh but we have had requests to take two "Bassiepoos"  & a "springbatt" this week - all bought by people who had "researched the breed" and all not suited to their families.


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## MurphysMinder (17 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			Jesus, this is the most bitchiess forum I have ever come aross. I Asked an innocent question and you all jump down my throats!!!
		
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Ermm. I don't think I jumped down your throat did I, I was trying to stick up for you.


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## Dobiegirl (17 November 2011)

s4sugar said:



			Sorry if it seems harsh but we have had requests to take two "Bassiepoos"  & a "springbatt" this week - all bought by people who had "researched the breed" and all not suited to their families.
		
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I understand why you feel the way you do and I do sympathise but the only way to change this is education. Most of the general public see both parents  are KC reg and take that as it must be good breeding and unless they are told different they are not to know.


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

Well he is suited to our family, just because you have have been asked to take in 2 crossbreeds doesnt mean that I am one of those people that haven't researched into the breed!! 

I do not wish to be tarred with the same brush!!


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

Apologies MurphyMinder, you did
Stick up for me so thank you


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## MurphysMinder (17 November 2011)

I'm intrigued to see pics now you have said he is mistaken for a boxer.


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## Dobiegirl (17 November 2011)

MurphysMinder said:



			I'm intrigued to see pics now you have said he is mistaken for a boxer. 

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Me too.


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

I will post pics when In a bit when I go on my computer (I am on my phone ATM)

But please, if anyone has any negative comments, keep them to yourselves!!!


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

How do i upload pics??


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## echodomino (17 November 2011)

Would love to see some piccies 

I personally would breed a Pug with a Beagle for many reasons especially the size difference (should hope the Pug was the dad!) but that doesn't mean peanutsmumma is the devil reincarnate for owning him. All very well putting opinions across but think it should be done in a diplomatic way, even those involved in rescues with strong opinions. Not the dog's or owner's fault he exists, so long as he's looked after and loved forever what's the problem?


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## echodomino (17 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			How do i upload pics??
		
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If you have a facebook account you can copy the image url and put 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 at the end or join and upload to photobuckt.com and copy/paste the link


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

Did this work?


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## s4sugar (17 November 2011)

echodomino said:



			Would love to see some piccies ............
 All very well putting opinions across but think it should be done in a diplomatic way, even those involved in rescues with strong opinions. Not the dog's or owner's fault he exists, so long as he's looked after and loved forever what's the problem?
		
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The  problem is that others doing their "research" into these "breeds" pick out what they want to read or hear and more get produced. There were two crosses last time I was at Wood Green that may have been pug x beagle and the mix of a brachycephalic face with a scent hound is just cruel. 
Callling him the mix he is rather than a cutesy made up name would be a good start - note the OP called the three I mentioned cross breeds.


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## echodomino (17 November 2011)

No


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## echodomino (17 November 2011)

s4sugar said:



			The  problem is that others doing their "research" into these "breeds" pick out what they want to read or hear and more get produced. There were two crosses last time I was at Wood Green that may have been pug x beagle and the mix of a brachycephalic face with a scent hound is just cruel. 
Callling him the mix he is rather than a cutesy made up name would be a good start - note the OP called the three I mentioned cross breeds.
		
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I know, I agree and I wasn't having a dig at you - not intentionally, just think that sometimes everyone comes on here all guns blazing and not always necessary, I've had it happen to me I've just developed thick skin lol

ETA the OP only wanted to know if anyone else had one


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

Hoping this link works.

There are 2 pics from when he was a puppy and the rest a fairly recent. There is also a pic of him with my little boy.

http://s616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/Twerd_01/CB/


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

s4sugar - i am really not interested in what you have to say. I have done my research and my PUGGLE (yes that is what he is) has a home for life and he is much loved and very well taken care of.


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## Dobiegirl (17 November 2011)

He looks lovely and spotty and so much bigger than I was expecting.


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## Holidays_are_coming (17 November 2011)

Wow he is cute, not sure what I expected but he looks better than in my mind! I technically have a cavachon but I hate the name so he is my Bischon x!


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

Thank you 

Lui - what is your bishon crossed with?


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## numptynoelle (17 November 2011)

Oh he's not what I was expecting at all (not quite sure what I was expecting though!) - I can see why you get boxer comments! How big is he? (Am rubbish at judging size compared to children!)


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

He is just a bit smaller than a Beagle. I will see if i can find a pic of him standing up.


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## echodomino (17 November 2011)

He's a lot bigger and a different colour than I was expecting. He's gorgeous and wasn't he the most adorable puppy!!


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## MurphysMinder (17 November 2011)

Not what I was expecting either, he actually looks bigger than a beagle it must just be the angle of the pictures.   Was his pug parent black?


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## echodomino (17 November 2011)

MurphysMinder said:



			Was his pug parent black?
		
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That would explain why he's not the colour I was expecting lol I always think fawn/apricot what ever it's called lol, when I think "Pug"


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

This is the only pic i have of him standing!! http://s616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/Twerd_01/CB/?action=view&current=102.jpg

He is actually a second Generation puggle (so his parents were puggles) His mum was black and his dad tri coloured.

The first Generation are more pug like and are the fawn colour, the second generation hasnt got so much of a "squashed face" like the first generation has.....if that makes sense!!!


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## welshcobmad (17 November 2011)

He's lovely! I can see why you get the boxer comments but you can clearly see both breeds there.

I have a Sprocker puppy, but due to the amount of people who get on the defensive when I call her that I introduce her as a springer x cocker most of the time.


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## CorvusCorax (17 November 2011)

Wow, it's a monsta thread!!!

He looks and sounds like a lovely boy but like others, not what I was expecting at all, proving breeding these sorts of crossbreeds is a total crapshoot - you don't know what you are going to get. Although I realise this applies to purebreds too 

I'll admit I do not agree with breeding these types of dogs (in terms of, breeding 'fashionable' crossbreeds, giving them an endearing name, charging (more?) for them, breeding breeds together that do not compliment each other in terms of their original use/instincts - I feel just as strongly about say, crossing my own breed, the GSD, with a husky - totally different types of dog, they may both have pointy ears but totally unsuited to each other - at least with a sprocker the type and the breed traits/drive is similar) but he was, he's here, he is in your home, you love him, he's not going anywhere, he is healthy and that is what is important x

Hope you don't think I am hating on you, I am not, your dog looks and sounds like a dude, I am just being honest with my feelings about the bigger picture


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## numptynoelle (17 November 2011)

elliecjno1 said:



			I have a Sprocker puppy, but due to the amount of people who get on the defensive when I call her that I introduce her as a springer x cocker most of the time.
		
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I had a rescue Sprocker....much easier just to say she was a spaniel!


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

Thanks for your comments CaveCanem. Everyone has different opinions and thats fine, what i dont like is people jumping down my throat when all i done was ask an innocent question.

People can tell me till they are blue in the face that they think the breeding is wrong / cruel / whatever, im not interested. I have my little doggy who i love to pieces and dont care what negative comments people have regarding his breed / breeding.

I choose to have a Puggle, others may not......this is my choice and that is theirs???

Dont think i am aiming this at you cavecanem, its just a general post


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## Dobiegirl (17 November 2011)

http://www.mobiya.co.uk/view/ajawjtwpg

Just found this can you believe it, more than you would pay for a pedigree health tested dog.

We paid £550 for our health tested pedigree Lancashire Heeler pup with show winning parents. Our pup will be shown and hopefully bred if she is good enough and this year there was only 37 puppies registered to 10 litters. No wonder they are a vunerable breed.

Im not criticising the op but Labradoodles and the like are bred to make money not to improve the breed because they are not a breed and its all the hype which goes with these dogs  which unsuspecting people believe and buy.


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## CorvusCorax (17 November 2011)

Could be worse, you could have a couple of slopey-backed cripples like me  

ETA YOWSA! I could have bought two cripples for that


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## CAYLA (17 November 2011)

Well its not about responsible breeding the price tag, its about the made up name, so I guess it depends on your priority, do you want a well bred and less problematic dog and promote responsible breeding or do you want a "silly name"
I fear we will always stray more towards the fickle factor then the responsible one.

I don't own a mongrel of that cross but we do see a few at work, generally for problems with their eyes, considering both breeds are nenound for eye problems then thats not really surprising, we have had a few through our rescue and the rescue we have connections to who deal with smaller dogs have have had their share, they where especially bong eyed the ones they had in.

I think some of the designer xing you can get away with but imo crossing a sporting/hunting dog like a beagle with a with a breed like a pug is not to be encouraged,  I fell rather sorry for the beagle in this instance

Anyhow I think we have come to the conclusion there are no other pug x beagle owners

I have a big browed cavi with bong eyes


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## peanutsmumma (17 November 2011)

Blah Blah Blah!!!!


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## prosefullstop (17 November 2011)

Here in New York, puggles are ten a penny, including many in rescue. The ones I've seen are either sandy or jet black, with beagle-ish faces and an underbite.

This one is more typical of the ones we see: http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/21188431


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## Galupy (18 November 2011)

CAYLA said:



			I fell rather sorry for the beagle in this instance

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I'm writing this down for future reference and quoting CAYLA.  You don't mind do you? 

OP, I don't agree with the cross myself for reasons most others have quoted above as well as my desire not to see my favourite breed (beagle, as you may have gathered from above) cross bred on purpose especially with something that can often barely breathe.  Your dog is lovely though (not like, as PFS says, the kind I'm used to seeing a lot over here) and not unlike one of mine who is some kind of crossbreed.  Mine though just looks like an overgrown beagle/lab which is a guess at his cross, not a boxer.  I imagine they looked very similar as puppies though.


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## littlemisslauren (18 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			Blah Blah Blah!!!!
		
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Aren't you delightful?

Stop being so defensive, nobody is saying 'Your dog is digusting and you are evil for buying him'

The breeding of unsuitable crosses to produce a mongrel with a silly name and higher price tag is frowned upon.


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## NeverSayNever (18 November 2011)

your dog looks very sweet and much loved.    why not just call him what he is though, a cross breed?  The whole puggle, labradoodle type thing sounds very silly imho. I dont personally agree with such breeding either but thats not a dig at the OP, her dog looks a lovely happy chap.


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## PucciNPoni (18 November 2011)

All breeds of dogs come from crossing something...but *usually* they are borne out of a need to fill a niche, not just a whim of a marketing ploy to make the beagle x pug worth more than it would be otherwise....or worth more than either of the parents are as purebreeds. 

Just to clarify, a puggle, labradoodle, cockerpoo and so forth are NOT breeds.   They are crosses.  Some call them mongrels, but I think personally a mongrel is a right mix (heinz 57) whereas a cross breed is at least somewhat traceable in terms of lineage.  But still doesn't make it an official breed til the KC/AKC and so forth have deemed it so. (someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

Sorry OP, there are some really passionate views about the terms that marketers use to call their dogs, and the fact that they try to demand so much dosh for said crosses.  They're not having a go at YOUR cute dog per se, just trying to rectify the notion that these crosses are in their  own right a breed.

Years ago there was a "breed" started called Morab (morgan x arabian).  It was met with similar vitriol - and I think they eventually got their own registry. 

How about Jack Russels, someone might tell me otherwise, but somewhere in my mind there was some sort of anti JRT sentiment cos they weren't AKC or is it KC?  I think this is going back to the 90s or 80s?


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## echodomino (18 November 2011)

PucciNPoni said:



			How about Jack Russels, someone might tell me otherwise, but somewhere in my mind there was some sort of anti JRT sentiment cos they weren't AKC or is it KC?  I think this is going back to the 90s or 80s?
		
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Still happens, I have the traditional shorties and they're not KC acceptable/registerable etc and the Parson Jack Russell Terrier Club dropped the "Jack" to become the Parson Russell Terrier because they didn't want associating with the shorties.

I think it's 5 gens + before it can be considered a "breed" plus has to conform to a set standard, there's no way a Labradoodle or Cockapoo or Puggle can do that because they are so varied, you know even less what you're going to get from that cross than I do from breeding my shorties


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## Amymay (18 November 2011)

littlemisslauren said:



			Aren't you delightful?

Stop being so defensive, nobody is saying 'Your dog is digusting and you are evil for buying him'

The breeding of unsuitable crosses to produce a mongrel with a silly name and higher price tag is frowned upon.
		
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Actually - that could be the tone of this thread.

Interesting cross OP.

We have one or two around us.  Seem like charming dogs.


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## PucciNPoni (18 November 2011)

echodomino said:



			Still happens, I have the traditional shorties and they're not KC acceptable/registerable etc and the Parson Jack Russell Terrier Club dropped the "Jack" to become the Parson Russell Terrier because they didn't want associating with the shorties.

I think it's 5 gens + before it can be considered a "breed" plus has to conform to a set standard, there's no way a Labradoodle or Cockapoo or Puggle can do that because they are so varied, you know even less what you're going to get from that cross than I do from breeding my shorties
		
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So is that the main difference between JRT and PRT?  The length of leg?  I never knew that!  

Interestingly, I have met quite a lot of so called "labradoodles" in my job.  I have found the ONLY ones to be close to a breed standard are the Australian variety.  All the ones that I have met have  been of similar size/build/conformation, coat texture, temperament.  Some have been imported and some were bred here from imported parents.   They've been health tested and owners told about grooming and socialisation.   All in all, a very good step toward standardising for breed recognition IMO.  

But the BIG BUT in this is that there are so many people who are just crossing labs and poodles without any of the above regard and THOSE are what are causing the uproar.  And then everyone jumping on the badwagon with their own variety of 'doodle and hoping to make big bucks from the cross.

OP, THIS is what's causing the heated comments. *NOT* specifically you or your dog.


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## echodomino (18 November 2011)

Length of leg and the PRT should be predominantly white or minimum half white - I think, Vizslak would know more than me she's got PRTs I have JRTs


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## noodle_ (18 November 2011)

i techincally have a sprollie - shes a springer x collie for anyone who asks

i dont buy the stupid names - they are crossbreeds...

mine was an accidenal litter and paid £50 for her.  (to cover costs only) which is how it sholud be with crossbreeds...

what happened to all those years ago where if someones dog had a litter of muts they were palmed off on family and friends.........not charged!


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## Tammytoo (18 November 2011)

I have a "Weimador" the most beautiful, loving, loyal dog.  She is bred in the pink, both working parents KC registered - but she and her 7 brothers and sisters were unplanned.  Weimador is my description but she was sold as a "labrador cross".  I've also seen a weimaraner/boxer cross, and they are absolutely beautiful, again not a deliberate cross and again most beautiful loyal dogs.

So I have no problem with a cross breed, providing the result is a healthy, good tempered and useful dog.   Far better than some of the poor specimens of pedigree dogs bred to look good with no regard for their welfare - now I come to think of it, a bit like some designer dogs.

Your "Puggle" looks gorgeous, healthy and happy, you have no problem with him so why should others?


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## SplashofSoy (18 November 2011)

Tammytoo said:



			So I have no problem with a cross breed, providing the result is a healthy, good tempered and useful dog.   Far better than some of the poor specimens of pedigree dogs bred to look good with no regard for their welfare - now I come to think of it, a bit like some designer dogs.
		
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I have to agree with this - As long as it is a healthy dog with an excellent temprement who fulfills a purpose be it working or pet.  All breeders who do not health test or consider where their litters will end up are as bad whether it is of designer crosses or pedigrees.  As are the idiots who pay ££££'s for a dog if any kind with no consideration for its needs/energy levels/costs etc. 

OP, your dog is very sweet and if he suits your family and is a healthy happy dog what more can you ask for.


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## PucciNPoni (18 November 2011)

I think we can all agree that indiscriminate breeding, whether a purebred or fancy cross bred (aka Designer Dogs), is wrong.

Okay, fine breed for pet purposes.  But consider the dog's confo and health issues and get both parents tested.  

I see it all the time, people with pure breds or mongrels just breeding without consideration of the health issues, whether or not good homes are ready before mating and so on.  

It's not to say that the OPs (or anyone else's) specific dogs were born this way, but so many were and THAT's the issue.  But the flames of that fire were fanned by those that saw a quick handful of cash to be made by mating their poodle to the neighbor's GSD (or whatever) because anything ending with 'oodle is bound to be non moulting and very trainable.  HA!  And then the bichon x's came --- and so on.


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## Holidays_are_coming (18 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			Thank you 

Lui - what is your bishon crossed with?
		
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Caverlier King Charles Spainel, he is lovely!!!!


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## Galupy (18 November 2011)

PucciNPoni said:



			All breeds of dogs come from crossing something...but *usually* they are borne out of a need to fill a niche, not just a whim of a marketing ploy to make the beagle x pug worth more than it would be otherwise....or worth more than either of the parents are as purebreeds.
		
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Hey now, beagles are priceless dontcha know! 

On the subject of health, my crossbreed has had to have two TPLO surgeries and was diagnosed with hip dysplasia when he was only 18 months old.  He is certainly not the hardy crossbred we are often led to believe is an advantage to owning one.  My purebred beagle girl, however, is by far the hardiest dog I've ever known and apart from a recent viral infection that got to two of my three and a sprained tail rolleyes a few years ago she hasn't given us any issues.  She's coming nine and long may that continue.


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## PucciNPoni (18 November 2011)

Galupy said:



			Hey now, beagles are priceless dontcha know! 

On the subject of health, my crossbreed has had to have two TPLO surgeries and was diagnosed with hip dysplasia when he was only 18 months old.  He is certainly not the hardy crossbred we are often led to believe is an advantage to owning one.  My purebred beagle girl, however, is by far the hardiest dog I've ever known and apart from a recent viral infection that got to two of my three and a sprained tail rolleyes a few years ago she hasn't given us any issues.  She's coming nine and long may that continue.
		
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Ooops, sorry Galupy - you are quite right! LOL

But you have hit the nail on the head (for me) with regard to the notion that cross-breeding automatically means a stronger healthier specimen in the pups.  


Trut is even careful breeding can yield pups that have *issues* but at least by doing the due dilligence and attempting to screen out potential health defects - and charing for THAT, rather than taking advantage of the cute factor.


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## GinaB (18 November 2011)

OP - Your dog is nothing like I expected! Cute though.

I have been looking at dogs for sale online and 1 - I am constantly shocked at the prices of un registered dogs (£500 for an unreg chihuahua anyone?) 2 - What people actually cross and 3 - the price of these crosses (mongrels to me!)


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## EllenJay (18 November 2011)

Wow - this is the first time I have put a toe into the dog forum - and I think  I will back out very very quickly. The bitchiness here far outweighs any other forum I have ever been on!

All "pedigree" dogs haved come about by "designer" breeding. The hill farmer wants a dog to help round up his sheep - hail the collie.  The Security guard wants a companion - bring on the German Shepherd (slightly tongue in cheek)  - but currently new breeds are being experimented with to fit into modern life styles.  This can include desirable attributes like "dogs that do not moult". 

I have previously owned full pedigree Springer Spaniels (still the best breed in the world) - but due to personal circumstances I was looking for a smaller breed.  Due to my lack of experience with the terrier breeds - I wasn't happy to take on a full blood terrier, so have adopted a cross breed of Jack/Patterdale/Cocker and she is fab.  Has loads of attitude of the terrier, but the loyalty and devotion of the spaniel.  She hasn't got a fancy name - but that is more down to my lack of imagination.

Some of the best dogs are these cross breeds - whether they have a fancy name or not - many pedigrees are so overbred that I wouldn't touch with someone elses bargepole.

I am now going back to the horsey forum as it is far less bitchey.

Goodnight!!


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## welshcobmad (18 November 2011)

Think I'll join you EllenJay lol!


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## peanutsmumma (18 November 2011)

Well Said EllenJay


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## CAYLA (18 November 2011)

I see nothing but people expressing an opinion on mongrels and the ways in which they are bred, i.e not accidental but for the purpose of profit, how can you be trying to better a breed when it of a completely different shape, often producing something rather over or under shot/bow legged/bong eyes/breathing difficulties and mass health issues from both breeds rolled into one dog (they can not be equally health tested) when this is the kind of thing that people are fighting to bred out in pedigrees (but it's fine to put 2 together of a different variety as this makes it better/healthier and give it a childish name, by this I mean literally something a 5 year old thought up and giggles about everytime it's mentioned)

We have breeds that are (low shedding) you will not get a zero shed dog, even bichons/poodles will drop a very mall amount but are definately the breed you need in regard to allergy compared to low/high shedding breeds and what x exaclty equals this desirable (zero shed)?? please don't say labradoodle, thats just another big joke and shows you have gullible/ignorant people can truely be and "taken in" and also = why we also see alot of rescue labradoodles

Like I mentioned you can get away with some X breeds and generally they will be for a purpose and good at it, but majority are just damn right cruel and uneccessary and the fact that people buy them is cruel imo.
Alot of these x breed (esp the 1st stage experimentals) will have/end up flooding the rescues or end up on dumb tree because they turn into monstrocities and have horrendous undesirable behaviours and traits due to their incompatible X breeding all for ££££££££££££££££££££££ and the laughs obviously.


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## Dobiegirl (18 November 2011)

Well if we dont agree with you run away ,very mature I must say. Is that what you do in the real world someone disagrees and you hop it.


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## Cinnamontoast (18 November 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			I'll admit I do not agree with breeding these types of dogs (in terms of, breeding 'fashionable' crossbreeds, giving them an endearing name, charging (more?) for them, breeding breeds together that do not compliment each other in terms of their original use/instincts
		
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Dobiegirl said:



			Im not criticising the op but Labradoodles and the like are bred to make money not to improve the breed because they are not a breed and its all the hype which goes with these dogs  which unsuspecting people believe and buy.
		
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All of this. I'm sure you adore him, he's a lovely dog etc, but I guarantee your cross cost lots more than my KC reg champions galore working springer.

 Deliberately buying a 'designer' cross breed and insisting on using a (sorry) ridiculous fake name just encourages others to do so, thereby encouraging BYB and poorly bred dogs that ultimately ends in misery for a lot of the dogs and the owners who fork out a fortune on health problems. Designer cross breeders are in it for the money. If you can show me both parents' health tests, I'll retract this. Bandwagon, anyone? Hope you sign the anti puppy farmer petitions that appear on FB regularly. 

 Even the guy who originally bred labradoodles now totally regrets doing it. The non moulting thing is massively erratic and not often relevant.



peanutsmumma said:



			Blah Blah Blah!!!!
		
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The ignorance (and I make no excuses for using that word) of people refusing to listen to ethical breeders about what type of cross would be appropriate amazes me. My mate's dog is a proper Heinz 57: she calls it a mongrel, because it is.



littlemisslauren said:



			Aren't you delightful?

The breeding of unsuitable crosses to produce a mongrel with a silly name and higher price tag is frowned upon.
		
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This ^


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## welshcobmad (18 November 2011)

I totally agree with you Cayla & the majority of the other comments it was just the initial comments aimed at the OP I thought were a bit nasty. 

Another angle on it - my friend on the other hand has a british bulldog kc registered, tested etc cost £900 & she's had 2 ops on her hips & she has breathing issues at only 3. That imo is one of the reasons people buy into the x breed thing - after hearing horror stories about the few breeds that get bad issues like that.


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## CAYLA (18 November 2011)

elliecjno1 said:



			I totally agree with you Cayla & the majority of the other comments it was just the initial comments aimed at the OP I thought were a bit nasty. 

Another angle on it - my friend on the other hand has a british bulldog kc registered, tested etc cost £900 & she's had 2 ops on her hips & she has breathing issues at only 3. That imo is one of the reasons people buy into the x breed thing - after hearing horror stories about the few breeds that get bad issues like that.
		
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Exactly, we live and we learn, people will soon learn that designer X breeds will bring as many if not more health issues to the table and empty the wallet as frequently.
The answer is not the breed and experiment on other random breeds but to improve what we have.
If people stopped buying the poor bred pedigrees and went for the well bred ones where breeders will bred out or not breed from the undesirable traits we may get somewhere. I bet your friend wont buy another BBD or recommend them


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## blackcob (18 November 2011)

elliecjno1 said:



			Another angle on it - my friend on the other hand has a british bulldog kc registered, tested etc cost £900 & she's had 2 ops on her hips & she has breathing issues at only 3. That imo is one of the reasons people buy into the x breed thing - after hearing horror stories about the few breeds that get bad issues like that.
		
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Or you could just buy a breed that doesn't have a completely flat face and is known to be plagued with health problems because, let's face it, they're deformed to begin with? 

The way I see it there's what, 150+ dog breeds - there's already a breed for every possible function, including purely companion/pet breeds. Efforts would be much better spent improving the health of existing dog breeds than arbitarily crossing them in a misguided interpretation of hybrid vigour, 'mongrels are healthier' and what have you. 

A very great deal of the problem is the prevalence of form over function (it's the KC's fault, so ner ). In fact the functions available to dogs these days are few and far between, no wonder so many of them are deeply misunderstood.


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## welshcobmad (18 November 2011)

Yeah I agree with you there should just avoid the breed really (personally I don't like them but there we go). You've hit the nail on the head with the form over function thing. She looks spot on but the problems she's had as a consequence are awful :-(


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## blackcob (18 November 2011)

Suck-up. 



Can you tell I've been reading In Defence of Dogs again? Dogs are in crisis, I tell you. CRISIS.


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## CorvusCorax (18 November 2011)

EllenJay said:



			The Security guard wants a companion - bring on the German Shepherd (slightly tongue in cheek)
		
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Well Von Stephanitz actually designed  the breed to 'hold up' sheep in areas where there were no fences, so their initial job was to keep the sheep off the other crops and keep the wolves and thieves from the sheep, trotting up and down all day, hence the long, low, energy-efficient gait.
The guarding/protection instinct evolved in this way and then when their usefulness and utility was noticed, so they were developed for the associated activities, jobs and sports (which were originally designed as a breed selection tool ) that they now partake in and the dogs were bred for different aims.

Most of the working instinct is now being bred out of them by pet and purely show breeders (of which we once were) and people like myself are going back to the old skool dogs - they don't want to lie on the sofa all day, they will torture you if they don't have something to do, they do not suffer fools gladly, but they are very trainable, they WANT to work and they are a bit more typical of the original breed.

Sorry, your fault, you started me off 

ETA Great post BC  sucking up too


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## Cinnamontoast (18 November 2011)

Call me suck up too, but bang on, BC.


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## reddie (18 November 2011)

We have a schnoodle  mini schnauzer x poodle,  She s 7 and was the result of accidental breeding.  Th owner of her mother was going to drown the resulting pups and luckly she was rescued.  When she was 5 we got her as her owners just ignored her.  I guess that if she had been born n the last few years she could have sold for a few hundred quid.  Aas it was she cost us nothing!! i must say she is one of the most ntelligent and easy dogs i have ever owned.


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## peanutsmumma (19 November 2011)

Wow, I can't believe how much interest thing thread had had just by asking one simple question!!!!

I know my dog is a 'crossbreed', I never said he wasn't. 
Everyone has their own opinions
On these 'designer breeds' and that's fine, just because you choose not to have one, it doesn't make me a bad person because I do.
At the end of the day, he has
A family that love him very much and fits very well into out family. He is intelligent, loveable, loyal etc everything we were looking for in a dog.
Further down the line if health problems do arise, then well deal with that at the time.

I undertand that everyone has opinions on different breeds, I don't like german shepherds and wouldn't choose to have one but I have nothing against people that do. Just because they are 'purebreeds' doesn't mean they don't come without problems. 

I didn't mean to cause such uproar with my post, all I wanted to know is if anyone else owned one..........obviously not!!!!


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## millimoo (19 November 2011)

OP... I've been watching this thread quietly from the sidelines.
I have a pedigree lab, bought from a friend who has the odd nice well bred litter (know my dogs mum, grannie, and until recently great grannie, plus her auntie and cousin) I bought this way as I knew what I was getting ... Not that it gaurantees a healthy dog, with a good temperament.

But I have to say, that designer breeds aside, I think puggles are very cute looking. 
There's a load of clips on you-tube for anyone vaguely interested... They kind of keep that puppy look about them. Although concede, know nothing about their temperament. Looks Like their more known in the States.
Enjoy your dog OP, any dog is lovely as long as it's, fit, healthy and a nice person


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## PucciNPoni (19 November 2011)

Going to stray slightly OT, but still with the same idea...

with regard to cross breeds - and going back to HORSES.  I found it interesting when an EDT told another livery on my old yard that her horse's mouth was too small for the teeth it had, and was causing her some discomfort.  The mare in question was 5yo, an Arab x ID/TB.  He basically said that when crossing that it was important to consider the size/weight of both parents for not just bone and conformation - but also the conformation of the mouth and so on.  Because the Arab and ID have such different shaped heads/mouths that it will possibly cause problems.

And they're both "horse shaped!"

So back ON TOPIC, when considering cross breeding, how important is it that the shape / size of the parents are similar enough for the resulting puppies to be healthy?  Sure, sometimes mixing in something a bit different is a good thing for specific function.  But how many BYB are knowledge enough to get it right?


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## CorvusCorax (19 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			Wow, I can't believe how much interest thing thread had had just by asking one simple question!!!!

I know my dog is a 'crossbreed', I never said he wasn't. 
Everyone has their own opinions
On these 'designer breeds' and that's fine, just because you choose not to have one, it doesn't make me a bad person because I do.
At the end of the day, he has
A family that love him very much and fits very well into out family. He is intelligent, loveable, loyal etc everything we were looking for in a dog.
Further down the line if health problems do arise, then well deal with that at the time.

I undertand that everyone has opinions on different breeds, I don't like german shepherds and wouldn't choose to have one but I have nothing against people that do. Just because they are 'purebreeds' doesn't mean they don't come without problems. 

I didn't mean to cause such uproar with my post, all I wanted to know is if anyone else owned one..........obviously not!!!!
		
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HOW DARE YOU!!!  

Only joking OP  and I do agree, but no one called you a bad person, things do just get heated in here sometimes.

Anyway, hope you hang around, you can fight your corner and be the resident Puggle owner!


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## CAYLA (19 November 2011)

PucciNPoni said:



			Going to stray slightly OT, but still with the same idea...

with regard to cross breeds - and going back to HORSES.  I found it interesting when an EDT told another livery on my old yard that her horse's mouth was too small for the teeth it had, and was causing her some discomfort.  The mare in question was 5yo, an Arab x ID/TB.  He basically said that when crossing that it was important to consider the size/weight of both parents for not just bone and conformation - but also the conformation of the mouth and so on.  Because the Arab and ID have such different shaped heads/mouths that it will possibly cause problems.

And they're both "horse shaped!"

So back ON TOPIC, when considering cross breeding, how important is it that the shape / size of the parents are similar enough for the resulting puppies to be healthy?  Sure, sometimes mixing in something a bit different is a good thing for specific function.  But how many BYB are knowledge enough to get it right?
		
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Exactly^^^^ and was the point I was trying to make, a dog should not be crossed with another, just because it's a dog!, physically some are not compatible at all, and its damn right cruel what it produces, but folk don't give a toss aslong as it comes with a cool/retarded name, that is until it grows into the monstrocity it does and they want shot of it.
It is hard enough trying to get folk to do their home work in regard to a breed that can be studied/that we are familiar with its size and traits let alone an experiment for money and a poncey name.
Nothing wrong with mongrels and as I said some serve a good purpose but we are now producing freaks with stupid names for money and encouraging mass irresponsible breeding along the way.
We had a basset x rotti in at work for treatment, it was hideous


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## lq22 (19 November 2011)

I, like many others on this forum don't agree with byb, irresponsible breeding and crossing breeds that are conformationally incompatible. However I think the argument that cross breeds are not worth as much as KC registered pure breeds is invalid. A dog, or any animal for that matter, is only worth what someone (that includes idiots!) is willing to pay for it. If someone is happy to pay ££££'s for a dog that has been bred by someone who has no regard for the health of their animals - until more legislation is brought in with regards to breeding and animal ownership - there is bugger all anyone can do about it. It is *their* perogative how they spend *their* money. I agree that the OP's puppy is cute, but i do not judge a breed solely by looks and a pug x beagle (changing the name is like trying to polish a turd) would not be the dog for me. But that is my personal opinion so please OP do not jump down my throat with regards to it.


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## lula (20 November 2011)

it does make me laugh that someone somewhere obviously decided that the best hydrid name to call these pug x beagle 'designer' puppies was a 'Puggle' 

I suppose calling it a 'Bug' might not have had quite as much cutesy factor when it comes to getting as much £££ as possible per pup.


'oh i do like your new puppy, what is it?'

'its a bug'

'no, im pretty sure its a dog'


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## HeatherAnn (20 November 2011)

I 100% agree with blackcob. Why would you want to mix a small little bug eyed dog, who at any moment could pop an eye trying to lick itself with a driven hunting dog? It's outrageous.
OP sorry to sound rude, but you couldn't have done THAT much research. If I was looking at a crossbreed. Take yours, for example, I would look at the breeds going into it. Pugs have such a high number of genetic issues there is NO chance I'd get one or get a cross. They have knees that pop out of place, they have breathing difficulties, not to mention several problems with their eyes. Its all well and good saying "oh, my dog's cute, I love him, I've given him a forever home" but at the end of the day it's owners like you and the breeders that bred your adorable dog that are causing shelters to become packed and healthy animals to be put down. I just hope in the future you'll look into rescues too.


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## MurphysMinder (20 November 2011)

Great post lq22.  
I have seen "bugs" advertised in our local free paper, so some folks obviously think the name is ok.


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## whisp&willow (20 November 2011)

i haven't read all the replies...

o.p your dog is cute, that is undeniable, and i do not have a problem at all with cross breed dogs, but a beagle x pug is not something i would look for. that is just my personal preference. 

everyone is different and we all have different tastes.  the world would be very boring it we were all the same.


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## peanutsmumma (20 November 2011)

Heatherann - how dare you say it's people like me that cause animal shelters to become packed. 
I have done my research thankyou very much. I can't believe how judgemental some of you are, especially you Heatherann. You don't know me at all and to say that I haven't done me research blah blah blah. 
Do you know what, I can't even be bothered to answer you!!!


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## HeatherAnn (20 November 2011)

OP I don't see how you got offended by what I said. It's so blatently obvious you didn't do research. Unless you like a long list of defects, if that's the case, then I apologise. "Puggles" have no breed standard so you have to look at the parents. And I know, there is no way in hell anyone would think that its a good combination. All I'm going to say is that you are quite ignorant. Most of the people on this forum really know what they're talking about, but with your dismissive attitude you're just p-ing people off. Maybe you should take a closer look at these comments and then take them into consideration next time you want to make a new addition. 
Also, thankyou ostrich for expanding what I said


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## numptynoelle (20 November 2011)

HeatherAnn said:



			OP I don't see how you got offended by what I said. It's so blatently obvious you didn't do research. Unless you like a long list of defects, if that's the case, then I apologise. "Puggles" have no breed standard so you have to look at the parents. And I know, there is no way in hell anyone would think that its a good combination. All I'm going to say is that you are quite ignorant. Most of the people on this forum really know what they're talking about,* but with your dismissive attitude you're just p-ing people off.* Maybe you should take a closer look at these comments and then take them into consideration next time you want to make a new addition. 
Also, thankyou ostrich for expanding what I said 

Click to expand...

My word, that makes for unpleasant reading - there is no need for such a personal attack! I dislike your claim highlighted in bold, as from your posts, you have certainly alienated me!


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## HeatherAnn (20 November 2011)

I have not meant to alienate anyone and would like to know why you feel that way. I don't understand why the post in bold has bothered you. People are trying to give this lady their opinions, which they are open to do, and she is dismissing them, judging by the replies, other people are finding this irritating.


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## numptynoelle (20 November 2011)

HeatherAnn said:



			I have not meant to alienate anyone and would like to know why you feel that way. I don't understand why the post in bold has bothered you. People are trying to give this lady their opinions, which they are open to do, and she is dismissing them, judging by the replies, other people are finding this irritating.
		
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Personally, I feel there is a difference between people rationally explaining why they feel the way they do about cross breeds (IMO - the majority of posts on this thread) and posts personally berating the OP for her (supposed) lack of research despite knowing nothing of her circumstances. I feel your posts are not as constructive to the tone of the thread, hence my uncomfort. The post in bold made me particularly uneasy as I do not like to see posters make comments "on behalf of other members" as it adds an air of assumption that the entire AAD community are against this poster - which is not the case. 

Perhaps I am being over-sensitive here, but I'm happier having stated my opinion, as ineloquent as it may be - I'll bow out now.


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## peanutsmumma (20 November 2011)

Heatherann - you say that people are just giving me their opions, if you read the title of this thread and the question i asked, you will see that I did ask for people's opions but if any one had the same breed!!!!!!


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## peanutsmumma (20 November 2011)

Thanks for your reply Numptynoelle


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## s4sugar (20 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			Heatherann - you say that people are just giving me their opions, if you read the title of this thread and the question i asked, you will see that I did ask for people's opions but if any one had the same breed!!!!!!
		
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And you got the answer it isn't a breed.


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## peanutsmumma (20 November 2011)

This is by far the worst forum I have ever been on, don't worry,
Me and my 'hybrid/non breed'  will not be returning.

Some of you are no doubt miserable, opinionated bints, with many faults but someone has probably chosen to love you.
A bit like I have chosen to love my dog, whatever breed he may be!!!!!


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## peanutsmumma (20 November 2011)

But the thing is ostrich, I DID NOT ASK FOR OPINONS!!!!!!!!!!


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## Galupy (20 November 2011)

Ostrich said:



			What is that saying?  "There's none so deaf as those who will not hear" 

Click to expand...

And nowt so blind that cannot see ... .

OP, I think you'd do better to try to educate us as to why you chose your dog and what your research showed, especially in regards to the potential health issues such a cross could have, rather than start to hurl personal insults at all of us when IMHO, most of us have been very cordial in our disagreement with your choice to own one.  You might not have asked for our opinion but threads evolve all the time in ways that cannot be predetermined by posters.  That's just the nature of the beast I'm afraid .


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## peanutsmumma (20 November 2011)

That's fine, I understand that. But why people have to be so judgemental and damn right rude.....I do not!!!!


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## ABC (20 November 2011)

peanutsmumma said:



			This is by far the worst forum I have ever been on, don't worry,
Me and my 'hybrid/non breed'  will not be returning.

Some of you are no doubt miserable, opinionated bints, with many faults but someone has probably chosen to love you.
A bit like I have chosen to love my dog, whatever breed he may be!!!!!
		
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Without being horrible, grow up. It's a forum! Just because people don't agree with designer dogs is no need to call them names, thats a bit out of order IMO. 

At the end of the day you posted this thread to talk about your dog and show him off and for people to say "aww what a gorgeous dog" which people have done, and I totally agree, however the moment people have said something you disagree with you've become defensive. There's no need, they aren't personal attacks, in fact a lot of people have said even though they dont agree with designer dogs your dog is lovely and its not your fault etc. 

Honestly its only a thread, if its annoying you that much go and cuddle up with your puggle, and realise that it doesn't really matter what a few people on the internet say if you and your dog are happy  

For the record your dog is gorgeous.  

(Haha, me posting in AAD is probably the funniest thing in the world, I'm clueless about dogs! My dog has only just mastered "sit"  but he's a bit speshal!   )


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## lq22 (20 November 2011)

peanutsmumma, I think you need to respect that this is a free forum and (within reason) people can respond to posts however they like. It is welcomed to have responses that answer particular questions or comments but you have to realise that the very nature of the forum often leads to people going off on a tangent often related to the original post and healthy debate to occur. Sometimes this debate goes too far and petty arguing occurs but the adults involved usually admit when they are in the wrong, apologise and move on.


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## peanutsmumma (20 November 2011)

And why should I explain myself to you!!!??


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## galaxy (20 November 2011)

I don't usually get involved with threads like this, but there has been definite rudeness on both sides which has generally got peoples backs up.

Although not by all, some have tried to be the voice of reason and have asked the OP genuine questions which have been totally ignored, which is very frustrating.

For exmaple OP, I asked on the 1st page, and several asked since, as you have researched this cross of breed what the benefits/purpose of the cross is?  It is not an antagonistic question.  It is entirely genuine.


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## Galupy (20 November 2011)

OP, you don't HAVE to explain yourself to us.  If you feel people have gone too far, best just to ignore those posts and move on with educating us and answering our questions.  You could also step away and understand that it's an emotive subject for a lot of us who see time and time again some of the consequences of indiscriminate breeding and for those of us that love our dogs that others have chosen to cross with something we don't agree with and then charge an awful amount of money for.  That doesn't mean we think your dog will suffer or is any less of a dog than full breeds.  I think though, you would be better served going the education route because then we all learn from you and why you chose your dog and I THINK I can speak for most in here when I say that we would genuinely like to do that and understand your viewpoint better.


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## Cinnamontoast (20 November 2011)

Researching a crossbreed is virtually impossible: there are no guarantees that the pups will inherit the parental characteristics. It's a dodgy mix for reasons already stated: not very fair on the dog, is it? 

You sure didn't research HHO if you come on and start saying how great it is that you deliberately chose to fund a BYB of a designer cross breed of two breeds that aren't a good cross. Too many people on here know the consequences of buying a pup or work in rescue.

Do what you like, of course, it's your money/conscience, but don't expect us to only coo over the puppy and congratulate you and don't get personal (which we haven't) just because we're not all falling all over ourselves to say complimentary things about your choices. It's a shame that you have made a big point of ramming the whole made up name and 'I did my research' thing: perhaps peole wouldn't have leapt on you had you not started with the whole look at my cross breed made up dog name to start with. 

Recently, a big campaign was on FB to shut down a BYB in Norfolk who persisted in asking what was wrong with his Frankensten cross breeding farm: some of the poor dogs have been born with deformities/major medical issues  and the unsuspecting owners have forked out thousands trying to fix their beloved puppies. Some of the pups have grown into monstrosities and will no doubt end up in rescue.  

Breeders need to be more ethical but designer cross breeders are in it for the money, from what I can see.

There, now get personal again and sit back aquiver with annoyance while the rest of us try to educate, either from bitter experience or ethics, and try to persuade others to stop funding the idiots breedng randomly crossed litters.


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## Holidays_are_coming (20 November 2011)

I own a x as stated earlier, he is a Bichon x cav, Both my parents have cavs and Im fully aware of all the problems with them my mums first had a heart problem, epilepsy and spondylosis, and my dads from the same breeder (non of those were evident at the time) has just been diagnosed with spondylosis so we as a family have had a steep learning curve to ask the right questions. My mums dog now is a happy health boy (crosses fingers it stays that way)!!! 

I would have loved to rescue anything young and cute, but I tried and no-one would let me due to working I dont work long hrs but my boss will never write this (I do field sales so can always pop home for play/wee time)! So I brought my boy, I dint really want a pure breed and I think the mix of Bichon x cav is nice he is playfull and cute low sheding! Did my research and met both parents who had been health checked, and so far he is a very happy, healthy and fab boy!


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## Cinnamontoast (20 November 2011)

Health checked or health tested? World of difference. Saying they have health issues now that weren't previously evident just says it all, really. There's no cure for spondylosis-isn't it degenerative? A friend has it.


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## Holidays_are_coming (20 November 2011)

Thats what Im saying Ive learnt the lessons the hard way, my dads dog is looked after very well and as soon as he shows any signs of pain he goes back to the vet, he has been on painkillers for a accident which damaged his neck 2 yrs ago, but on the x-rays last week that looks really good.

The breeder we got the cavs with problems from, had loads of champions in there pedigrees and there were KC registered.


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## Cinnamontoast (20 November 2011)

lui23456 said:



			The breeder we got the cavs with problems from, had loads of champions in there pedigrees and there were KC registered.
		
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Same, the big dog in my sig has a ton of champions on his pedigree, KC reg etc, but crucially, the parents weren't health tested. I'd rather a mongrel with health tests than a KC reg pedigree with none. I'm still learning the hard way.


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## CorvusCorax (20 November 2011)

For a dog to be a champion, all it has to do is win three Challenge Certificates during it's show career - trot around a ring, stand nicely, adhere to a standard and not rip the judges throat out (I have seen a lot of very windy dogs of all breeds winning prizes, which I totally disagree with, don't care how nice put together it is, if it is a nervous wreck). 
Being a champion is no guarantee of health (one champion in our breed has a score of 50 in on one hip, obviously the breeder is honest and the dog is not being bred from). 

The KC will register any recognised breed of dog out of a bitch of the correct breeding age, if you pay the money.

A vet check of a puppy is not a health TEST of a breeding pair. As with everything, it is no failsafe (see my dog chock full of VA excellent select dogs, world Siegers, five gens of hip and/or elbow scored, top winning show dogs, many with working qualifications - yes his hips and elbows are fantastic but he has allergies coming out of his ears) HOWEVER having said all that, I would still **buy** from generations of health tested dogs than **pay** for an unknown quantity. Might as well rescue if you don't know or care what might be lurking in the lines. B is my first dog that has displayed any continuing health problems. And he was only £300


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## Holidays_are_coming (20 November 2011)

Thats the thing when u are a uneducated person buying a dog u don't know what dogs have to do to be a champion, I take no responsibility as I was young at the time! Totally agree more education is needed for people!


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## Dobiegirl (20 November 2011)

I have always said people see the magic words Kennel Club and Pedigree and think it guarantees them a healthy dog. Breeders who dont health test count on this and dont enlighten potential buyers so how is the general public to know.


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## CorvusCorax (20 November 2011)

Well maybe this thread isn't a total disaster!!!
I genuinely don't mean to offend anyone as I know a lot of forum users have competed there (my mother's bitch got third in Open in, er, 1972  we still have the cheque) but Crufts is just a big dog show.


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## Ravenwood (20 November 2011)

OMG Peanutsmumma - I feel desperately sorry for you reading this thread 

You obviously ventured in here with all good intentions with a light hearted post without having any idea what AAD is like - what a shock!  I am sorry you have been pulled apart, shouted at and criticised by a cliquey few who love to jump on the bandwagon to please the elite 

Personally I think it is such a lovely and heart warming post to read that a dog has such a loving family home - so many dont.

As much as all that has been said already in this thread holds weight and if you pick out some of the well written posts I am sure you can agree that they have a point.  No one likes to see an animal exploited and I am sure even you agree that puppy farms should not be allowed to exist.

I think education is the way forward - not to humiliate and tear apart a new poster to this section.


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## Amymay (21 November 2011)

Hear, Hear Ravenwood.


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## amy_b (21 November 2011)

this is insane....
I got bored by page 6 so apologies if im repeated/resurrecting something that has been said
Iv seen a few PUGGLES *oops!* did i say *PUGGLE*?!!  and i think they are ace. I dont think peanutsmamma can be held soley responsible for all of the people out to make a quick buck and I dont think the PUGGLE has a scratch on the labradoodle surely?!!! 
for the record, I neither for nor against breeding two breeds and 'making a new one' (dont shoot me, i dont know how else to explain it!) but also, i dont think the pedigrees are holyer than thou, they are RENOWNED for horrific health issues are they not? why else is insuring a pedigree four times the price? I think the only time when breeding crossbreeds is a problem (in my very humble opinion!) is when it is on mass scale, for purely money purposes (but does this not apply to alot of pedigree owners aswel?!) and for breeeding monstrosities(sp?) like the teacup puppies.
live and let live! she owns a puggle, he's massively cute (I also was expecting beige?! ) and im pretty sure she isnt going to take him to the vets to be PTS because you guys have all told her he shouldnt exist, she isnt breeding from him, she bought him years ago so presumable the 'breeder' has either made thier millions and retired in barbados surrounded by puggles or has gone bust from the RSPCA shutting them down for breeding deformed,depressed,crippled,non-health-tested,MOT'D,breed researched.......dogs?!
also, I dont see why the people that breed two pedigrees to make a mongrel are so much worse than the people who purposely breed mongrels?!


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## Spring Feather (21 November 2011)

Ravenwood said:



			OMG Peanutsmumma - I feel desperately sorry for you reading this thread 

Click to expand...

I do too.  One of my friends has a puggle, the typical fawn coloured type, and he's a very nice dog.  How many posters on this thread have crossbred or breed-unknown horses?  Quite a few I believe.


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## JFTDWS (21 November 2011)

I'm not especially more worked up about the breeding of a "puggle" than I am of pugs in general.  Seriously, who buys these things, they're a walking vet bill. 

I'm sure the OP's dog is very cute and is lucky to have a caring home.  But if people didn't buy them, they wouldn't be bred...


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## Sid_p (30 November 2011)

I also own a Puggle in the milton keynes area and he is the greatest little puppy ive ever had. he is 6 months old and the mix of the 2 breeds creates a perfect little dog.

he has the charm and character of a beagle and the loyal and slightly stupid nature of the pug. they get alot less breathing issues than a pug and so thats gotta be a good thing.

Peanut, if you wanted to meet up for a puggle dog walk let me know

I have a hnd in animal husbandary gained at moulton college in northampton and i wouldnt even consider a dog if i felt that the cross was cruel in any way.

si


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## BBH (30 November 2011)

I wonder if those in Victorian times got such a hard time when crossing the bulldog with a mastiff - not an obvious match really but they wanted something to bring down poachers so chose the bulldog for its ferocity and the mastiff for its size and the result = the Bullmastiff which today is a recognised breed of which I have two and love them. 

Maybe in years to come some of these current crossbreeds will be more accepted.

To the OP I think your little chap looks lovely and is well loved and cared for.

I'll save my dislike for those who abuse and illtreat their dogs be they pedigree or crosses. 

There are far more important canine welfare issues to be dealt with and deserve peoples animosity rather than offending someone who came on asking if anyone else had a puggle.

I actually dislike any breeder who churns out puppies cross or pedigree for money year after year and those are the people I worry about.


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