# General health niggles - WWYD?



## Ambers Echo (4 November 2017)

I bought a 5 yo Connie a month ago. She had a 5 star vetting and nothing at all was picked up.  However there is is just something about her that makes me feel as though she may not be feeling great.

I could ask a vet for advice but am reluctant at this stage because a few years ago at a routine check up (part of an annual health plan) I asked about the best way to clean wax from my dog's ears and was given a bottle of Otidine. 14 months later surgery for an intractable ear infection was excluded by the insurers on the basis that my casual conversation 14 months previously meant ear wax (which was part of the infection as bugs got trapped behind it) was a pre-existing condition! That conversation - which I did not really need to have as I could have got that very basic advice from anywhere - cost me over £500......

Anyway - when she arrived she ate mud. Lots of it! So I bought her a mineral salt lick and started  her on a good quality balancer. She was (is) extremely touchy about being touched anywhere so I thought that was more behavioural/emotional. But although she is now ok with being stroked on her neck and back and having her legs handled, she still kicks out or tries to bite if you touch her belly and she is girthy.

Her eyes look a little dull as does her coat. Though I am used to my super-shiny chestnut and my other daughter's bright bay. So maybe grey coats just are dull in comparison? Her eyes are a bit gummy though no redness and the gunk is clear.

Her appetite is good, her poos are normal looking. She has  plenty of energy under saddle and she plays in the field. YO does not think there is anything wrong with her!

She is on unlimited forage: plenty of long/old grass through the day and adlib haylage at night. She also gets plenty of Hifi. 

Physio saw her on the first week but she was too touchy about being handled to be assessed. Physio is coming back on Monday as mare is so much better now so physio will be able to assess and work with her. But there is no reason to think she is sore - she is very well behaved ridden and carries herself well.  Having said that when teeth were done as soon as we got her they were so bad her mouth was ulcerated but she never objected to being bridled when we viewed her so she seems the stoic type. 

She was shipped over from Ireland a week or so before we bought her so life has been pretty stressful for her recently...

I was wondering about ulcers? Or just generally having had poor nutrient intake till we had her (hence the mud eating) and being a bit overwhelmed by her travels and all the changes. Would you ask a vet to give her a once over (though isn't that what a 5 stage is?) Would you be thinking diagnostics: bloods/scoping? Would you change her diet? Or am I looking for problems and need to stop worrying - she will just settle down and perk up with good grub, a good routine and stability.

Vet is coming back in a couple of weeks for 2nd set of vaccs. I wonder if I can have an unofficial chat then about whether or not I need to talk to a vet? Or will that put the vet in a difficult position? I don't want anything on her vet record at this stage saying that I consulted a vet about x, y or z as explained above.


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## Leo Walker (4 November 2017)

I'd want her scoping or a trial run of treatment. It can be a long trip from Ireland with nothing to eat. Shes got symptoms and enough potential causes. I'd want to treat for hind gut at the same time. I'd also worm count and treat for encysted red worm as well. I suspect the physio will find a lot of tension and pain going by what you say. What her muscle tone like? Is she evenly muscled? Foot balance good? A blood test for general health/viruses etc wouldnt go amiss.

White coats dont shine the way chestnuts do, but they get a lovely gleam to them.

I never get anything vetted but I always do a full MOT with any new horse. Back/teeth/feet/saddle as well as a proper assessment of how they move and hold themselves and what bit of basic groundwork etc are missing.


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## be positive (4 November 2017)

You don't mention worming which would be the first thing to sort out, I would treat her as if she had ulcers, get the physio to look and see where you are in a month, they often take a while to come right after a traumatic  experience, which 2 moves, being shown to people, vetting, sore mouth etc is so I would wait a bit longer before getting the vet involved, obviously if anything deteriorates or gives cause for concern get her checked sooner but time, a settled routine and decent forage can be enough to allow her body to recover.


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## Ambers Echo (4 November 2017)

Thanks for replies. We wormed her on arrival.


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## Goldenstar (4 November 2017)

Definatly look at worming .
The other thing to try is a double dose of protexin for a prolonged period .
Ulcers are a distinct possibility .
If she where mine I would get the vet to do a general check plus a blood screening to see if it throws up anything like raised white cells or something like low iron or copper that can pull horses down .
It's early days .
ETA She should also see a good dental vet .


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## Ambers Echo (4 November 2017)

be positive said:



			I would treat her as if she had ulcers... I would wait a bit longer before getting the vet involved.
		
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Thanks for replying. What would treating for ulcers without the vet look like? Different feed? I actually had another pony a few years back who I also thought was a bit run down without being actually ill. She was girthy but I was told she always had been. I phoned Thunderbrooks and started her on base mix, healthy herbal chaff and oatbran. She improved massively and stopped being girthy. But since then I have read a lot of other stuff 'debunking' the claims of expensive feed so I am not sure sure if I am attributing an improvement to feed that would have happened anyway just with access to adlib forage and with time?


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## Ambers Echo (4 November 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			ETA She should also see a good dental vet .
		
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Thanks. As she was so stressy I decided to have her sedated for the dentist so they could take their time and do a thorough job. So she was seen by a dental vet and will be followed up in 6 months and then hopefully go to 9 monthly visits.


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## be positive (4 November 2017)

If she has ulcers then you really need to diagnose and treat but at this stage I would give something such as Protexin, they do a "quick fix" which may help, and continue as you are with ad lib forage, low sugar/ starch and a settled lifestyle and see if she improves without intervention, I am sure many horses get them from time to time and recover if their life settles down without the owners ever knowing if it is just due to trauma rather than long term pain/ neglect or unsuitable diet that is the underlying cause.


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## Ambers Echo (4 November 2017)

Thanks. I will order some Protexin today. See what the physio says Monday and take things from there.....


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## Pearlsasinger (4 November 2017)

Ambers Echo said:



			Thanks for replying. What would treating for ulcers without the vet look like? Different feed? I actually had another pony a few years back who I also thought was a bit run down without being actually ill. She was girthy but I was told she always had been. I phoned Thunderbrooks and started her on base mix, healthy herbal chaff and oatbran. She improved massively and stopped being girthy. But since then I have read a lot of other stuff 'debunking' the claims of expensive feed so I am not sure sure if I am attributing an improvement to feed that would have happened anyway just with access to adlib forage and with time?
		
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I suspected that my mare had ulcers, so I started her on Aloe Vera juice, following a tip on here.  It made a lot of difference to her grumpy, touchy behaviour.  For quite a long time, if she missed a dose, she was obviously uncomfortable by the time she got the next dose.


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## Goldenstar (4 November 2017)

Ambers Echo said:



			Thanks. I will order some Protexin today. See what the physio says Monday and take things from there.....
		
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Protexin quick fix is basically a double dose of the standard protexin .I had one whose dicey tummy was sorted by six months of protexin at the double dose .


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## Ambers Echo (4 November 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			Protexin quick fix is basically a double dose of the standard protexin .I had one whose dicey tummy was sorted by six months of protexin at the double dose .
		
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Thanks. I had a bit of a google search of both and from what  I could see people were using the Quick Fix when poos were sloppy eg after antibiotics. Whereas Ginny is just a bit touchy round her belly and flanks but does not have acute symptoms.  Poos, weight, appetite and energy levels all normal. So I thought the supplement to be used over a longer period of time would be more appropriate, so I have gone for a 700g tub. It will arrive tomorrow.


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## Ambers Echo (4 November 2017)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I suspected that my mare had ulcers, so I started her on Aloe Vera juice, following a tip on here.  It made a lot of difference to her grumpy, touchy behaviour.  For quite a long time, if she missed a dose, she was obviously uncomfortable by the time she got the next dose.
		
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This stuff?
https://www.viovet.co.uk/Barrier_Al...ST0Me1nyr7am18lUsNgJw-046AfSo_ykaAkucEALw_wcB

I went on an aloe vera tour once. It was actually more interesting than it sounds and aloe vera does sound like pretty miraculous stuff! I used an aloe vera based gel for an itchy pony and it made a huge difference. I'll try the gut supplement firsr but have this in mind as another option. Thanks. x


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## Ambers Echo (8 November 2017)

Going round the houses with this a bit now.... Physio came and noticed  a couple of small scabby lesions. Hard to see as she is so fluffy. Physio happens to know that the yard I bought her from has had an outbreak of ringworm... But I bought her 5 1/2 weeks ago (just checked dates) so timing is not quite right. But anyway I got the vet out and he was not convinced by the ringworm idea - but she DOES have some sort of very mild skin issue so that might be partly why she does not like being groomed. Or she might just have a few random scabs from life. It was not very clear - there was nothing much to see. But he has given me an anti-bacterial and anti-fungal wash to use to cover all bases.

 I asked about ulcers and he saw her in all her nowty, stroppy glory but he does not think it is physical. Her appetite is good, dropping are normal and she shows no discomfort being ridden - not even the odd swished tail. Her ears are pricked and she seems happier when she has a job to do than at any other time!

Certainly he did not think scoping was indicated. So I will treat the skin issue, carry on with the Protexin and see how she gets on.....Physio would not treat obviously, as she did not want to risk spreading a skin problem further. So need to wait for the skin to clear up before getting physio back a THIRD time in the hope of eventually assessing her!

YO and vet both think I should carry on working her - especially as I won't be turning her out till I am sure she is not contagious - and neither think that she is  in pain.  Vet did have a feel of her back and there was nothing of note. Both YO and vet think the stroppiness is behavioural/emotional and just treating her like any other horse and expecting her to get on with it is the way forward. Which suits me as I like getting on with it! Any thoughts on that advice?

And any supplements particularly good for promoting healthy skin?


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## OLDGREYMARE (8 November 2017)

Micronised linseed is brilliant for their coats. About 100 -200 grams a day.


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## Goldenstar (8 November 2017)

Micronised linseed and forage plus winter performance balancer , it takes time to get a horse into tip top condition just treat her right and feed her right and she will come right .


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## googol (8 November 2017)

Tricky one! Early days tho. FWIW I would manage her as an ulcer horse (as best you can given the circumstances, eg ad-lib forage based food, no cereals, don&#8217;t ride on an empty stomach) Feed micronised linseed as everyone has suggested- my &#8220;white&#8221; grey gleams and if the light catches right I canseehim shining - his skin & coat look &#8220;healthy&#8221; if you get me. Give her a few more weeks to settle in but if your gut feeling (which you obviously have) doesn&#8217;t go away, open the books again. My boy has a &#8220;strong&#8221; personality lol but I will listen to my gut and know his &#8220;normal&#8221; which is probably cloudy-ing the water a little for you


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## FfionWinnie (9 November 2017)

Ringworm doesnt really bother them in my experience. Its itchy at times but wouldnt cause them to behave how you describe it. I would say if her behaviour is improving I wouldnt worry at this stage. If its not or it plateaus thats the point to start wondering.  Shes young and shes had a stressful time with potentially poor standards of care (long journey without forage etc). Keep doing what youre doing and see how she goes in the next month or two.


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## Ambers Echo (9 November 2017)

Linseed on order! Thanks for advice. Any thoughts on Thunderbrooks? I was wondering about switching her off Hifi which does have a thin coating of molasses and putting her on their healthy herbal chaff instead. Very expensive though! Any cheap alternatives to that?


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## Fiona (9 November 2017)

What about a grass chaff such as D&H Just Grass OP???  Would that be cheaper??

Have you started the Protexin, we fed it with great success to a pony of ours last winter...

Fiona


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## Ambers Echo (11 November 2017)

Someone has recommended Pink Mash. Looking at the ingredients it  contains Protexin and micronised linseed plus is high fibre, low starch and sugar. Seems to have everything I want in one feed. I would need to continue with the balancer but what are people's thoughts about Pink Mash? Also do you need to feed chop as well or could it replace that? She will still have adlib haylage.


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## Ambers Echo (11 November 2017)

Ginny's behaviour is quite puzzling. I gave her some free time in the indoor school today so she could mooch around, roll or whatever. She would not move away from me, so I moved away from her and she followed me around nose by shoulder going everywhere I went. But her ears were pinned the whole time. It was quite odd. Why was she following if she was stressed? When I stopped she would stop too and her ears would go forward and she would sniff me all over. If I walked off she would pin her ears and follow. I can't really read her mood at all! 

She will still try to bite or kick out if you touch her belly but only once and then will tolerate it. So I think that might be anticipating pain which she then realises is not that bad now. So think she is improving slowly. She has been on Protexin 6 days.

Her skin looks ok - a few small scabby bits but nothing is spreading. I don't think that was much of anything tbh.


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## Leo Walker (11 November 2017)

Ears back dont always mean stress or anger. It can mean concentration or any number of things. Did she seem stressed?


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## Leo Walker (11 November 2017)

Ambers Echo said:



			Someone has recommended Pink Mash. Looking at the ingredients it  contains Protexin and micronised linseed plus is high fibre, low starch and sugar. Seems to have everything I want in one feed. I would need to continue with the balancer but what are people's thoughts about Pink Mash? Also do you need to feed chop as well or could it replace that? She will still have adlib haylage.
		
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I love the stuff! I feed it with a tiny sprinkle of grass chaff, but you dont need to. Its incredibly low sugar and starch and lasts a month at full rations. Mine looks absolutely stonking on it. He gets that and the cheapest Progressive Earth balancer. Its a really cost effective way of making sure he gets everything he needs.


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## Ambers Echo (11 November 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			Ears back dont always mean stress or anger. It can mean concentration or any number of things. Did she seem stressed?
		
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She didn't seem particularly stressed but her ears were both flat back as far as possible as opposed to listening ears or relaxed ears. Can that really be concentration?


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## Ambers Echo (11 November 2017)

Thanks for other reply.
 Pink Mash on order!


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## Leo Walker (11 November 2017)

Ambers Echo said:



			She didn't seem particularly stressed but her ears were both flat back as far as possible as opposed to listening ears or relaxed ears. Can that really be concentration?
		
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yes, might not be but it can. If you have a look at videos of the some of the people that do liberty work you will see horses doing it a lot. It depends on the rest of her expression and body language though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKjEEYyQqPk


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## Ambers Echo (11 November 2017)

Wow that video is amazing and you're right some ears are pinned.. .. how interesting. But the one bucking and kicking out with pinned ears really doesn't look happy! Is that meant to be playing?!


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## Pinkvboots (11 November 2017)

Ambers Echo said:



			Linseed on order! Thanks for advice. Any thoughts on Thunderbrooks? I was wondering about switching her off Hifi which does have a thin coating of molasses and putting her on their healthy herbal chaff instead. Very expensive though! Any cheap alternatives to that?
		
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graze on chaff it's just grass about £9 a bag


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## Trules (12 November 2017)

Hi. Just thought i'd add i have recently seen 4 plus horses come straight from ireland all stressed and taking a good while to settle. My connie took a good 6 months to relax. I couldnt touch his feet or easily get a bridle on him. All are very headshy and obviously not used to being touched in a gentle manner. I would give her time to settle and not worry too much!! I dont think they typically get much affection from dealers over the water. All the best with your girl, i'm sure she will turn out fab.x


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## Goldenstar (13 November 2017)

Ambers Echo said:



			Thanks for other reply.
 Pink Mash on order!
		
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You need to check th pink mash because it contains protexin ( or something similar does not mean it provides in a quantity that will help .
You need to work out exactly how much is the amount you are giving your horse every day .
It's my experiance that horses do best when they are not being given food that mixed up in advance in a factory .


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## Ambers Echo (18 November 2017)

Trules said:



			Hi. Just thought i'd add i have recently seen 4 plus horses come straight from ireland all stressed and taking a good while to settle. My connie took a good 6 months to relax. I couldnt touch his feet or easily get a bridle on him. All are very headshy and obviously not used to being touched in a gentle manner. I would give her time to settle and not worry too much!! I dont think they typically get much affection from dealers over the water. All the best with your girl, i'm sure she will turn out fab.x
		
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 Sorry I never saw this! Thanks for posting. Yes I am sure she will be fine in the end. It's reassuring to know this is quite common!


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## Ambers Echo (18 November 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			You need to check th pink mash because it contains protexin ( or something similar does not mean it provides in a quantity that will help .
You need to work out exactly how much is the amount you are giving your horse every day . .
		
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How do you work it out? The Protexin tub does not have amounts of the Pro and Prebiotics in it as far as I can tell?


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## Ambers Echo (18 November 2017)

Someone else has suggested Equidgel. I'd never even heard of it. Their website looks good but have not seen any independent reviews. Any thought?

She is still girthy but less touchy generally and she is looking brighter. Has gained some weight and coat seems softer and shinier. She is now on linseed, Protexin (double dose), speedibeet, alfa A molasses free and Top Spec balancer. And a rock salt/mineral lick and adlib haylage and 8 hours daily turnout on grass.

I am thinking of replacing the linseed, protexin and speedibeet with Pink Mash though when the current stuff runs out. A few people I know have used it and swear by it...


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## Leo Walker (18 November 2017)

Pink Mash fed at 100gms per 100kgs of body weight gives you a full dose of Protexin. It also contains linseed. Mine looks really good on it.


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## Ambers Echo (18 November 2017)

Thanks. I asked my local feed merchant to get some in so we will give it a go when it arrives.


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## Ambers Echo (27 November 2017)

Quick update about 10 days ago she started with a really gungy snotty nose. She was a bit snotty from before we even got her which the vet was unconcerned about -- thin clear snot, but she never shook that off completely. A few days later everything cleared up - so I wonder whether the better grub kicked her immune system into action so her minor cold symptoms increased (body producing the defences more strongly) then stopped as she is finally bug free.

She does seem a lot better in a lot of way. Physio FINALLY managed to treat her today. She was a bit defensive but nowhere near as bad as the first 2 times. She was grumpy at first but then seemed to relax into the massage. Lots of licking, chewing, sighing and head dropping. Even her lower lip went a bit floppy. 

She spends FAR more time with her ears forward now. She looks fairly friendly most of the time!

She is weak but her muscle tone was ok. She was tight but not excessively so. Just needs to keep working her to build up her strength and fitness and keep feeding her well and hopefully she will be absolutely fine.


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