# Are sarcoids really contagious??



## RuthnMeg (25 November 2010)

Just catching up with animal madhouse on 4oD, and pony with them. Vet claims they are contagious and pony should be isolated... I've never heard this before, is it really true?
Thoughts please


----------



## Double_choc_lab (25 November 2010)

This was mentioned on a thread on here a couple of weeks ago but I'd never heard of it before.  I should imagine that you would have to isolate if treating with Liverpool cream as I wouldn't want a horse ingesting it.


----------



## MissMincePie&Brandy (25 November 2010)

I have never heard that before!


----------



## MissMincePie&Brandy (25 November 2010)

I didnt see the programme.  I've just done some googling, and this seems to be what all the veterinary sites say about them, which is what I understood to be the case anyway:-

The exact cause of the sarcoid development is not known, certainly a viral basis has been explored but there is no conclusive data to support this theory. At present there is no justification to consider sarcoids as contagious between horses. However on an individual horse the spread of sarcoids is certainly well recognised.


----------



## kerilli (25 November 2010)

I had a mare for about 11 years (grey in my siggy) who had terrible sarcoids, about 4 different types incl the really nasty verruca type ones. They were open and bleeding most of the time, including in the summer when there were flies around. None of my other horses, or any of my livery horses back then, ever 'caught' a sarcoid from her.
However, her daughter did get a couple on her face (because there were sarcoids up near the mare's teats, which bled a lot when the foal was nursing, so the filly spent months looking like a vampire foal), which I treated successfully with Newmarket bloodroot ointment.  So, I think direct (repeated) application of blood from the sarcoids can transfer them, but in my experience using the same tack etc never did, and flies did not spread them to other horses.


----------



## Cuppatea (25 November 2010)

it is possible on only some types od sarcoid, mainly in the spring summer when the flies areout. Apparently the flies land on them and because of the way they regurgitate their food, it can spread to the next spot they land. I have noticed it happen (very mildly) on the same horse but not seen any transfer to another horse. All ours, sarcoids or not, go out together in the summer and none of the others have got any from it.
It is possible but not very common. If the other horses are healthy and clean inside (rather than run down and wormy) its far less likely to catch them. A run down, sickly horse came to us once with  sarcoids (loads) and when we cleaned him out inside and out and brought him back to good health some of the sarcoids dissapeared with out doing anything to them.


----------



## stencilface (25 November 2010)

Thanks for that Kerilli, our old boy has some sarcoids on his back legs, and I try to be careful about not sharing brushes etc, but I'm not perfect!  That makes me feel a little better


----------



## KatB (25 November 2010)

I do think Sarcoids can be passed on. I had my horse (who was sarcoidless!) on a yard where a lot of horses had developed sarcoids and a fly problem, and he subsequently developed one whilst he was there. When he moved, I treated him with bloodroot cream, and he never had another.


----------



## Kao (25 November 2010)

¬.¬ yet another bunch of BS.
No, they aren't contagious.

But, it depends. They should've stated there are different kinds of Sarcoids.


----------



## Perissa (25 November 2010)

Kao said:



			¬.¬ yet another bunch of BS.
No, they aren't contagious.

But, it depends. They should've stated there are different kinds of Sarcoids.
		
Click to expand...

Professor Derek Knottenbelt OBE BVM&S DVM&S DipECEIM MRCVS said on the TV programme Animal Madhouse that sarcoids can be passed on to other horses via flies.


----------



## 0ldmare (25 November 2010)

Perissa said:



			Professor Derek Knottenbelt OBE BVM&S DVM&S DipECEIM MRCVS said on the TV programme Animal Madhouse that sarcoids can be passed on to other horses via flies.
		
Click to expand...

I had been told that by another vet. They obviously arent *massively* contagious though


----------



## showqa (25 November 2010)

Interesting as I've just been talking with my vet about this.

In her opinion, the research is very patchy regarding sarcoids being passed from horse to horse and even if you accept the possibility, she argues that the horse STILL has to be susceptible to sarcoids to pick it up - in which case they would very likely have presented with sarcoid at some point anyway. Likewise, she said that if the sarcoid would have to be oozing, infected and have a point of entry for the fly to pass the virus around anyway.


----------



## ttt (25 November 2010)

Over the years, I have had two with sarcoids. None of my others have ever 'caught' them.


----------



## HBBambee (25 November 2010)

One of our broodmares developed a scarciod during pregnancy. It was on the side of her udder.
Her foal developed a sarciod on his lip and vet said yes, he had got it from the one on the mares udder.


----------



## JanetGeorge (25 November 2010)

KatB said:



			I do think Sarcoids can be passed on. I had my horse (who was sarcoidless!) on a yard where a lot of horses had developed sarcoids and a fly problem, and he subsequently developed one whilst he was there. When he moved, I treated him with bloodroot cream, and he never had another.
		
Click to expand...

Sarcoids ARE passed on - via biting fly BITES!!  The fly bites the sarcoid (if it is 'interesting', usually bloody) and then bites either the same horse or a nearby one!  The horse with the original sarcoid WILL get more as a result.  Other horses may or may not get a sarcoid as a result of the bite - as some horses are more susceptible than others - and some have better immune systems.


----------



## showqa (25 November 2010)

I worked for a number of years at a yard in the Middle East, of about 35 + horses, all living in close quarters. One had a sarcoid over its eye, quite a large nodular type, and all I can say is that not one of the others developed a sarcoid in the 8/9 years that I was there. There was an artificial lake close by, much man managed flora, and needless to say at certain times of the year lots of biting flies. Now this is hardly conclusive scientific evidence that the virus cannot be spread by flies I know, but that's the point (and one which my vet was trying to make too), that so far there is no conclusive evidence to suggest that it can! We need to be careful not to scaremonger I think.


----------



## JanetGeorge (26 November 2010)

showqa said:



			Now this is hardly conclusive scientific evidence that the virus cannot be spread by flies I know, but that's the point (and one which my vet was trying to make too), that so far there is no conclusive evidence to suggest that it can! We need to be careful not to scaremonger I think.
		
Click to expand...

No - it's NOT conclusive.  My experience is rather different!  I have had 6 horses develop sarcoids in the last 5 years - all horses were unrelated.  The only thing they had in common was that they had all been stabled CLOSE (within less than 50 feet) to the original horse (whose small sarcoid I thought was not worth worrying about!)  One of the horses had a messy sarcoid which grew from a cut - we THOUGHT it was proud flesh - and the vet trimmed it (in summer).  It grew like stink in a matter of weeks before being treated with Liverpool Cream.  Within a month, the horse had 3 more sarcoids (all quickly treated) and winter came - no more sarcoids!  Although the original horse had only one sarcoid, all bar 1 of the others had more than 1.  The one who didn't develop more had his treated VERY quickly at the start of last winter - he's had no more.

I can think of NO other explanation for the number of sarcoids I had in a relatively short time.  Yes, I have a lot of horses so I would expect to see a couple of sarcoids - but more than half my horses live out.  Only the stabled horses - close to the original horse with a sarcoid - got them.  That seems pretty conclusive to me - and my vet is convinced too.  I now have NO horses with sarcoids - all have been successfully removed.  Let's see how many sarcoids I see in the NEXT few years!

And passing on FACTUAL information is not scaremongering!  People can make up their own minds based on the information available.  If I'd known 6 years ago what I know now it would have saved me several thousand pounds in veterinary treatment of sarcoids - and saved some horses the rather considerable discomfort of treatment!

Why the horses you saw in the Middle East didn't get sarcoids, I can't say.  Nor can I say why I saw VERY few horses with sarcoids in Australia.  The only comments I could make on that is that there are undoubtedly other factors involved; maybe it's a different type of fly; or the prevailing weather conditions (the UK being wetter and cooler generally than the Middle East and Australia) - or something else.  But it IS recogniesed that the UK has a higher incidence of sarcoids than many other countries.


----------



## hairycob (26 November 2010)

I think the current thinking is you need 3 things to be present - genetic susceptibilty, infection with the bovine papilloma virus & an injury site. The injury site can be something as small as a thorn prick or fly bite & the virus is spread by biting flies.
If you have a group of horses that are not susceptible it won't matter about the other 2 which might explain why experience differs. Or the current theory could be wrong. Thing is nobody knows for sure so at the moment you have to manage things in a way you feel comfortable with & get on with it. My old mare had loads of sarcoids (stopped counting at 30) by the time she was pts & none of the other horses on the yards we were at have acquired any in 6 years - lucky? I don't know, but I would walk away from buying any horse with a sarcoid because I would worry about it.


----------



## smellsofhorse (26 November 2010)

I think they say that  the flys that can spread it.

When my boy was having treatment, ( he was turned out in a field with about 10 others) he had a fly mask on but one with lycra so there was no way a fly could get to it, (it was on his eyelid)
But that was just as much for his own comfort and to stop him rubbing it.

They have now said sacoids are hereditary, but its just one of the many factors that have to be right for a horse to get them.

It dont think they can actually catch it from the other horse, but maybe if a horse had it in his genes then was bitten by a fly that was carrying sarcoid tissue from an infected horses there is probably a slightly bigger chance the horse will react.

We still know so little about them.


----------



## NOISYGIRL (26 November 2010)

Ruthnmeg said:



			Just catching up with animal madhouse on 4oD, and pony with them. Vet claims they are contagious and pony should be isolated... I've never heard this before, is it really true?
Thoughts please
		
Click to expand...


Apparently yes.  I think it depends, if they are dry and not weeping they are probably ok, I think its when they are ooozing and flies can transer it, presumably to another horse if it already had a cut, it would be passed on through the open wound


----------

