# Greyhound attack... Am I being unreasonable?



## Queenbee (20 September 2014)

Today has not been a good one.  I woke to blood curdling screams outside my window, as I was coming to I heard the words "has he hurt the cat" and I blindly threw on some clothes and ran out the door to find two women with two greyhounds standing by my car, my cat having been attacked was hiding underneath it. My cat is thankfully and amazingly ok, she is traumatised, very sore, and utterly exhausted post shock but as the dog had her in a proper grip around her abdomen and shook her she could be dead very easily.  Basically she was chilling in her jungle... The neighbours front lawn and one of the dogs attacked her, she must have given him hell (she has shredded claws) some how she made it to the other side of the road and got under my car. But even the owners who were hysterical said he full on mauled and shook her.

Now people who know me will know I'm not biased towards the breed, far from it, I've owned a Lurcher and have my elderly whippet.  I am however seriously fuming!  The story goes that this dog is an ex racer, the greyhound rescue centre re homed him to one home who then having lost their house sent him back.  Two weeks later he was with these new women.  He is a fit male greyhound, they re homed him with an approximately 75 year old woman who is very slight, now I walk my dogs along a little track, when I get near it even my whippet who is old, arthritic stiff and sore is a strong burger to handle.  They were told he was calm and there were no issues.  

I am obviously furious with the two women, an ex racer who is a new addition should be wearing a muzzle in my opinion.  The younger woman (the daughter) was gabbling on about how she told her mum not to get him, how he was Irish and that was bad because they train them with live animals... And they also said that he had had his muzzle on earlier in the morning, followed up by the daughter shouting at her mother that she told her he should have had a muzzle on.  I got really ticked off, explaining that his attacking my cat was nothing to do with him being Irish, it had everything to do with him being a sight hound, and that he should not have been out without a muzzle, especially when they knew so little about his character and temperament, furthermore, why muzzle him for one walk and not the other. It's quite frankly insane!

I'm really bleeding angry though at the rehoming kennels, what on earth were they thinking rehoming such a strong dog with such a frail old lady, plus if they had assessed him properly they would know he is not safe without a muzzle, that he chases cats!  He just pulled straight out of this woman's hand, he has no recall because he's a track dog and acting on instinct and the only training he knows... Arrrrgh, I just am furious, they should not have put that dog with that woman, the dog chased my cat in a bound frenzy across the road, both animals could be dead having been hit by a car.  

I'm calmer than I was earlier, but I still feel strongly about the above.  Am I wrong?


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## hayley.t (20 September 2014)

Poor you and poor cat  how lucky (although not the right word, I know) that you woke up and got down there whilst they were still there.  
I don't think you are wrong to feel like that and I imagine that you were feeling pretty shook up too.
Hopefully it will have made them realise what they have taken on and they will be a lot more careful in the future. 
I wouldn't necessarily blame the rescue, it doesn't sound the perfect match but you don't know what has been said by either side and what they recommended. Also, rightly or wrongly,  I don't know if some are so full that they wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth so to speak. 
I know that this will be of little comfort to you but when I started reading I thought it was going to be about these despicable human beings who deliberately set there dogs on cats, there has just been a case near me where someone had been caught doing this, at least this was an accident. Although like I said I realise for you and your cat it makes little odds. Hope that she is feeling better this morning x


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## Alec Swan (20 September 2014)

If I owned and raced a greyhound,  when its racing days are over and if I wasn't going to retain the dog myself,  then it would be put to sleep.  Greyhounds through their breeding and training focus on one thing,  killing,  and expecting a dog to be desensitised to the main focus in its life,  is being unrealistic.  ALL greyhounds should be muzzled when in a public place.  

We have two families in our village,  and between them they have three retired greyhounds.  The three are all neutered and obese,  and they are never let off the lead,  spending their lives either indoors or being led about.  I don't call that much of a life,  but they're their dogs so it's their choice.  I often wonder why these people 'Save the dog's life',  for what?  A life of never having the ability to gallop,  again?  I have misgivings about all rescue centres,  and specifically those who re-home greyhounds.

No Q-b,  you're not being unreasonable.  The dog is the responsibility of the owner,  and to give any greyhound its freedom where there are likely to be cats around human domiciles is asking for trouble.  Irish or not makes not a jot of difference.

I hope that today your poor little cat is ok.  I'm surprised that without timely intervention,  that she wasn't killed.

Alec.


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## Fides (20 September 2014)

By the sound of it the women will think twice about walking the dog without a muzzle now. It sounds like  the dog is just way too strong for the lady  I foster for a sight hound rescue and although they insist fosters are to be muzzled in public, once the dog is rehomed, there's nothing they can do if the owner chooses not to 

The lady does need to be careful though as she could be reported under new legislation if the dog gets loose and someone feels 'threatened' by this


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## spike123 (20 September 2014)

I'm glad your cat is okay. This is the second time today I've read about a greyhound attacking a cat.(other story is on our local papers website) Unfortunately the cat concerned there wasn't so lucky and was killed. All dogs have that potential although I guess where greyhounds race by chasing a fake rabbit the instinct to chase cats must be extremely strong. I agree that maybe they should be muzzled. I know a few people who keep them as pets. One lady is fantastic and keeps her muzzled out in public but they are allowed to run and be dogs. Another owner though is clueless and has no control over hers whatsoever. Greyhounds seem to have built a reputation as being gentle easy dogs. The chase instinct seems to be forgotten about when people look at them as potential pets to live amongst cats and other small animals.


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## lurcherlu (20 September 2014)

QB in the West Briton (our local paper ) this week greyhound needs a sofa and garden no walks as finds life too stressful, I actually feel like adopting it and having it pts.... A running dog never allowed to run again ?? I have had lurchers for 7 years now so no means an expert , we adopted our big lad as a 2-3 year old , he must never be let off his lead they said , so I feel this is cruel , took him to an enclosed field let him go (muzzled in case we encountered small animals ) and we've never ever looked back , he successfully worked on the lamp for 4 years , ferreted and raced , my teen tiny 4 year old (QB will vouch for me she's a dot ) can walk him on the lead and he wouldn't think once about taking off . Now my issue with greyhounds is the adopters and rescue centres .... They advertise them as not needing much exercise :/ my friend had an off track grey they retired her at 7 she was a world beater , we used to take her on some permission I had and let her run with my lurcher , he would out turn her but my god she could run and run for hours , she was a known cat killer so the only time she was allowed to free run was on this permission I had where the only cats were feral and wise to the dogs  a greyhound confined to lead walks must surely be depressed ? Even now at 10/11 years old my lurcher still has a muzzle and if my granddad wants to walk him I make him take him muzzled , he wouldn't hurt anything but it keeps me happy knowing that if pappy forgets he's walking a sight hound and lets him off around cats that Oli wouldn't kill them or any pet rabbits as they live on an estate where cats and rabbits roam everywhere . 

No QB you're not being unreasonable , muzzles are handed out with all rescue greyhounds , they should be used , they are so used to them that a muzzle is no morecruel than a lead on any other dog . And a 30kg dog rehomed to a frail old lady ???? Stupidity at its best


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## Alec Swan (20 September 2014)

lurcherlu said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..

No QB you're not being unreasonable , muzzles are handed out with all rescue greyhounds , they should be used , they are so used to them that a muzzle is no morecruel than a lead on any other dog . And a 30kg dog rehomed to a frail old lady ???? Stupidity at its best
		
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Such a sensible and pragmatic post,  and specifically your last paragraph.

Alec.


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## helena29 (20 September 2014)

I hope your cat is ok :-( Greyhounds are seen as easy dogs, suitable for anyone, but when I got noodles he would throw himself at cats, he is 30kg of muscle and bone, I had to add a harness so I had something else to hold on to as well as the lead as he could be so strong around cats (yes, he was muzzled). At one point he was also attached to a canicross belt to avoid any chance him getting away.

It took a huge amount of training but he will more walk past them on a loose lead, although he well never be cat safe. I also agree with Alec Swan, greyhounds need to run, noodles was a different dog once I found empty, enclosed areas where he could run.  There are a lot of confused, frustrated greyhounds around and a lot of owners who say it is in their nature and don't even attempt training. I live in an area with 5 or 6 cats and we have never come close to an incident as I have never put him in that position, unfortunately an elderly lady with a strong ground is not a good mix.


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## Woolybear (20 September 2014)

I had a cat killed (Olive) years ago, by a 'retired' greyhound in the field behind my house (the dog walkers were trespassing)  I was at work at the time, but my neighbour's children were traumatized by watching the whole thing, the cat was pursued full pelt across 4 acres of field by two off lead greyhounds and torn apart as she tried to get back over the fence into my garden.  Some dogs can never be trusted no matter how much you retrain them, muzzles would have saved my Olive's life and my heartbreak.  I'm so glad your cat is ok x


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## {97702} (20 September 2014)

Greyhound owners like this really infuriate me, there are far too many people already willing to jump on the bandwagon & say how dangerous ex-racing greyhounds are and how they shouldn't trust them, it is simply down to poor ownership!  Greyhounds have been bred to chase/run for hundreds of years, what on earth do people think they are going to do when faced with a small furry fast-moving animal??!!


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## Alec Swan (20 September 2014)

A further point about controlling those dogs which are on a lead.  I've yet to understand the argument for 'Harnesses' on dogs,  when we consider 'control'.  Harnesses are fitted to dogs which are used for pulling heavy weights.  How does anyone expect to control a dog when the attachment is designed to make life easier for the 'pulling' animal,  and not harder?

Alec.


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## Fides (20 September 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			A further point about controlling those dogs which are on a lead.  I've yet to understand the argument for 'Harnesses' on dogs,  when we consider 'control'.  Harnesses are fitted to dogs which are used for pulling heavy weights.  How does anyone expect to control a dog when the attachment is designed to make life easier for the 'pulling' animal,  and not harder?

Alec.
		
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Why can people just not understand this...

I think it is an excuse for poor training - if a dog pulls on a harness they they aren't perceived as being cruel, but they would injure the same dog using a collar.


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## Queenbee (20 September 2014)

Hi all, just a wee update... Thank you all for your messages and posts... Silva kitty has absolutely amazed me, she is up and about this morning, has eaten, toiletted, and actually left the house which I could never have predicted.  Having spoken with the owners today who actually witnessed the attack, she was shaken... Her Arms and legs flying about was some of the terminology used . I'm just in shock that she is so unscathed.  

With regards to harnesses, to be honest Alec I have found mine useful, I have a dog that could slip out of any collar, and she is only a reprobate near her favourite track, a little path that goes from the road down the side of a school and straight into a field,  this harness allows me to hold her, without risk of her slipping her collar, while she does her best to start her little race from 100 yards away... I also don't give a monkeys about this little episode because she has cancer, she is old, stiff and has a short while left to live and since she behaves perfectly everywhere else I just deal with it... She basically goes bezerk because she knows she gets to take Archie the fat springer down along the track.  She also and importantly wears a harness because she has a tumor the size of half a tennis ball on her thyroid, and I'm not going to put a normal collar around that for leading her. No they do have their place, and in my opinion they do help with control... Because the handlers action on the harness is not the same as the action exerted when pulling a heavy weight...  The weight would be pulled in a more horizontal action, where as the handler should keep a shorter lead and use an upward pulling motion... Totally different effects on the dog.  

With regards to the sanctuary and the owners I have spoken with both today... To be fair, I spoke with the main centre, not the kennels or the person doing the animal assessment or home checks, but have expressed my upset, my disbelief that this is an appropriate pairing, or indeed that such a pairing could ever happen.  They are going to look at a better home for the dog and a better dog for the woman.  Having chatted with the owners, I have made them aware that silva is well, and of my contact with the rescue centre.  Apparently the mother and daughter walked him out muzzled today with two leads, totally not practical especially since the daughter has cancer.  The  mother needs a companion dog that she can safely control on her own.  I have suggested with them the possibility of rehoming a smaller sight hound and recommended they discuss with the greyhound rescue centre as they have details for whippet rehoming on their website. I was also shocked when I popped to their house to see a low four foot max gate... Any greyhound could make mincemeat of.  Any rehoming centre I know of would never place a dog of this type in a garden without higher fencing than that.

However, the bottom line is silva kitty is miraculously alive, and the centre are aware of the situation and will be acting appropriately to resolve it, they are also going to let me know how it has been resolved as this dog is currently on the same street as my cats and indeed a lot of other cats, albeit quite a way down the street.


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## TrasaM (20 September 2014)

Silva kitty is incredibly lucky. I hope she managed to draw blood ! I've got a cat fearing/hating dog and I have cats. I didn't realise until after I was committed to having him that he had problems..initially petrified of them but once braver starts baying and will chase. Hence he does not get off lead anywhere near cats ..other or my own . He did chase once but it was a but half hearted and more of a go away or else chase. But I still wouldn't chance him. Once I get the time and energy I will start to desensitise him..hopefully.bits possible that cats were used to get him to hunt and he came off worse  
I hope for both the dog's and old ladies sake that she gets help with him or as you say a swap for a more suitable dog.


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## Leo Walker (20 September 2014)

Just to add to the discussion about muzzles, I've seen sight hounds use a muzzle to bludgeon prey to death, so its not quite as clear cut as that. My 2 live with a cat and are therefore pretty cat friendly but I still wouldnt trust my youngest not to chase and hurt a cat when he was off lead if one ran. 

Mine are exercised off lead most days, they days they arent they run 5 to 10k with my partner. If they didnt they would be deranged lunatics within days. Too many people take on dogs like this and dont exercise them appropriately and it leads to trouble! My 2 sleep roughly 20 hours a day and are predominantly bone idle, but they do need exercise and stimulation. Dylan is a working bred whippet. He doesnt work but I spend a lot of time making him think he is working with games and training etc


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## Queenbee (20 September 2014)

FrankieCob said:



			Just to add to the discussion about muzzles, I've seen sight hounds use a muzzle to bludgeon prey to death, so its not quite as clear cut as that. My 2 live with a cat and are therefore pretty cat friendly but I still wouldnt trust my youngest not to chase and hurt a cat when he was off lead if one ran. 

Mine are exercised off lead most days, they days they arent they run 5 to 10k with my partner. If they didnt they would be deranged lunatics within days. Too many people take on dogs like this and dont exercise them appropriately and it leads to trouble! My 2 sleep roughly 20 hours a day and are predominantly bone idle, but they do need exercise and stimulation. Dylan is a working bred whippet. He doesnt work but I spend a lot of time making him think he is working with games and training etc
		
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Oh no I know, I've heard of similar instances, but my argument is that without a muzzle they would still have gone for the cat, a cat in my opinion has a stronger chance of getting away when a muzzle is used, and a muzzle will be enough of a barrier in some cases to protect a cat that would otherwise have been mauled or damaged.  

I was a little bit ticked off as the women had been advised to not exercise the dog as much to let it lose muscle definition and fitness as a combative measure by a friend.  I explained that the minimal level of walks their dogs get is a holiday in comparison to their old life and to restrict his exercise further is going to affect quality of life and turn him into a real problem dog.  These women really are not very bright, and they are trying to manage an animal they have no understanding of, with little guidance from the rescue centre and inappropriate guidance from friends. What a shambles


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## helena29 (20 September 2014)

Harnesses - he had a lead attached to collar and was walked like that, the harness was just so I had something else to hold him firmly when throwing himself around I am not stupid


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## Love_my_Lurcher (21 September 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			If I owned and raced a greyhound,  when its racing days are over and if I wasn't going to retain the dog myself,  then it would be put to sleep.  Greyhounds through their breeding and training focus on one thing,  killing,  and expecting a dog to be desensitised to the main focus in its life,  is being unrealistic.  ALL greyhounds should be muzzled when in a public place.  

We have two families in our village,  and between them they have three retired greyhounds.  The three are all neutered and obese,  and they are never let off the lead,  spending their lives either indoors or being led about.  I don't call that much of a life,  but they're their dogs so it's their choice.  I often wonder why these people 'Save the dog's life',  for what?  A life of never having the ability to gallop,  again?  I have misgivings about all rescue centres,  and specifically those who re-home greyhounds.

No Q-b,  you're not being unreasonable.  The dog is the responsibility of the owner,  and to give any greyhound its freedom where there are likely to be cats around human domiciles is asking for trouble.  Irish or not makes not a jot of difference.

I hope that today your poor little cat is ok.  I'm surprised that without timely intervention,  that she wasn't killed.

Alec.
		
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So you would have an otherwise perfectly healthy dog who could go to a nice home killed just because it was no longer good enough for racing? 

As for your wanting all Greyhounds to be muzzled while out in public and that they were trained for 'killing'. What a load of nonsense! Greyhounds are usually trained to chase NOT to kill. Sure some trainers will use live prey to keep them 'keen', but not all of them do. And my Greyhound does NOT need a muzzle. She and my other dog do get a lot of off lead time, but only in places where there aren't likely to be cats or other dogs. 

To the OP. I am really sorry that your cat was attacked and am glad she is on the mend, but please remember that this was an unforseen accident. The woman might have had dogs before and never had anything like this happen. To blame the breed for this is also unfair. Just about any breed is capable of chasing and attacking a cat. I also knew a man a couple of years ago when he patrolled the paths in my area at school time. He was probably in his late sixties and would bring his Greyhounds with him. He took good care of them and they were given plenty of off lead exercise. So a person's age doesn't necessarily mean they won't be able to fulfil a dog's needs.

So Alec I am quite frankly disgusted by your comments and Queenbee, please be thankful that you cat is okay and calm down. I know I would be fuming if my dogs were attacked, but if it were a genuine accident then it would be slighly better than if somebody had deliberately set their dogs on mine.


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## Love_my_Lurcher (21 September 2014)

TrasaM said:



			Silva kitty is incredibly lucky. I hope she managed to draw blood ! I've got a cat fearing/hating dog and I have cats. I didn't realise until after I was committed to having him that he had problems..initially petrified of them but once braver starts baying and will chase. Hence he does not get off lead anywhere near cats ..other or my own . He did chase once but it was a but half hearted and more of a go away or else chase. But I still wouldn't chance him. Once I get the time and energy I will start to desensitise him..hopefully.bits possible that cats were used to get him to hunt and he came off worse  
I hope for both the dog's and old ladies sake that she gets help with him or as you say a swap for a more suitable dog.
		
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You really hope the cat drew blood? Really?


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## Luci07 (21 September 2014)

My dog walker specifically takes on grayhounds whom I have always thought are such graceful dogs. However, when talking to me one day, she surprised me at how much thought she has to give to day to day care. Her bitch is muzzled always, but properly walked. Does have let off areas but my walker told me that a 6 foot fence would not stop a GH in full flight. No wonder she thinks walking my staffords is, literally, a walk in the park!


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## Love_my_Lurcher (21 September 2014)

Luci07 said:



			My dog walker specifically takes on grayhounds whom I have always thought are such graceful dogs. However, when talking to me one day, she surprised me at how much thought she has to give to day to day care. Her bitch is muzzled always, but properly walked. Does have let off areas but my walker told me that a 6 foot fence would not stop a GH in full flight. No wonder she thinks walking my staffords is, literally, a walk in the park!
		
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I forgot to say before that mine has NOT attempted to jump a fence. She will jump over ditches and water, but has never jumped over a height. One time when we were at a friend's house my Lurcher jumped over a fence and Neamhnaid was stood right next to him and made no effort to follow him. In fact the lady at the Retired Greyhound Trust (where Neamhnaid) came from had never heard of  a Greyhound jumping over a fence. Some might do, but to say that every Greyhound would is a sweeping statement.


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## Penny Less (21 September 2014)

There are several people local to me who have ex racing greyhounds.  They are always walked on the lead but not muzzled. There is nowhere locally that you could let the dogs off for a really good race round that is fenced, so if they are not obedient to recall these dogs never get a proper run.  Having had a lurcher for a month which used to clear 4ft fences with ease and disappear Im afraid I wouldn't have a greyhound or lurcher again. Said lurcher managed to get himself killed on a railway line by chasing bunnies under a railway line fence


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## Montyforever (21 September 2014)

I have a greyhound, he's never muzzled (got himself caught with it once and decided more hassle than they are worth given he nearly broke his neck!) I've got to admit he's an absolute **** and has put me off dogs for life end of but he is no worse than any other breed. Yes they chase, so do many other breeds! We have loads of cats come in the garden and he's been close to catching them sometimes but im not going to keep him on a lead in the garden. Its just not possible or fair. 
One of my neighbours cats got attacked by another neighbours dog a few weeks back and he's a jack Russell x .. Time for the saying deed not breed i think!

I also have a cat who makes sure my dog tows the line. She ran at first but soon worked out that was not a smart idea and she now wallops him if he gets too close. Dogs own fault as he never learns!


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## Alec Swan (21 September 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			So you would have an otherwise perfectly healthy dog who could go to a nice home killed just because it was no longer good enough for racing? 

&#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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Yes,  that's exactly what I'd do.  I would never allow a cherished dog to end up,  with an idiot.  Have you ever owned racing dogs,  or have you been on the other end,  picking up the discarded racing remains?

Responsibility of ownership includes facing up to the end of the dog's days,  and I'm sorry,  but palming an animal off,  and on to another,  isn't what I call responsible ownership.  Those who save themselves the disposal costs,  of their dogs,  by simply passing them on,  are not responsible owners.

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (21 September 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. 

As for your wanting all Greyhounds to be muzzled while out in public and that they were trained for 'killing'. What a load of nonsense! Greyhounds are usually trained to chase NOT to kill. &#8230;&#8230;...
		
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You clearly have neither experience nor knowledge of greyhounds in training.

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (21 September 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..

So Alec I am quite frankly disgusted by your comments and &#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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Understand your topic,  and you will perhaps,  have a different viewpoint.  I would be delighted to be wrong,  but fear that I'm not!

Alec.


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## Flicker (21 September 2014)

QB, how is your cat today?


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## TrasaM (21 September 2014)

So greyhounds should only be used for racing or coursing ? AND despatched atvthe end of their miserable working life.  

Does that mean therefore that;-

Collies should only ever be owned by farmers?

Hunting dogs by hunters? 

GSD's used only for security work?

And so on.. 
That leaves most of us who don't hunt, herd or whatever else should restrict our choice of dogs to those meant only for decorative purposes because keeping a dog and not utilising it's breed specific tendencies is wrong and deprives  or diminishes the dog in some way? 
Such arrogance ! 

Anyone want to swap me a pekinese for my deprived diminished pointer?


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## honetpot (22 September 2014)

Most of greyhounds I see are unmuzzled, it seems to me they give a lot of pleasure to people who do not appear to be idiots. I have had two lurchers, of course bred for coursing, the first as a rescue so I assume he was actually used. Well going on the fact we had a free range guinea pig that had the run of a large garden and four cats they are not all killing machines. Dogs will run after anything small, squirrels drive mine demented but they manage to control their killing instincts with no trouble, we have a large garden and paddocks and the cats will actually go for a walk with them.
 I have never had greyhounds but lurchers live for their sofa and comfort, would sleep 22hours out of 24, and  are deaf to recall when it suits them and I wouldn't say mine need that much exercise and neither are over weight.
   Local to me there are a few beagles, which seem to proportionally give more trouble, they do seem to like roaming. JR's get away with literally murder just because they are small, my friends attacked my goat and a neighbours managed to get in to my chicken run and kill three chickens in the space of a few minutes. I think your for more likely to get bitten or your cat killed by a JR, but they are just so inky dinky cute so one sees them as a pest.


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## Alec Swan (22 September 2014)

TrasaM said:



			So greyhounds should only be used for racing or coursing ? AND despatched atvthe end of their miserable working life.  

Does that mean therefore that;-

Collies should only ever be owned by farmers?

Hunting dogs by hunters? 

GSD's used only for security work?

And so on.. 
That leaves most of us who don't hunt, herd or whatever else should restrict our choice of dogs to those meant only for decorative purposes because keeping a dog and not utilising it's breed specific tendencies is wrong and deprives  or diminishes the dog in some way? 
Such arrogance ! 

&#8230;&#8230;..
		
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You've raised interesting points.  

Line 1.  Generally yes.  If greyhounds are taken as puppies and brought up within a family environment,  then they will almost certainly be a different animal than the one which has had no input other than it's 'schooling' which has been single minded and focused upon one point,  and that's to race.  I won't be alone in feeling that the track dog when at the age of probably 3 or 4 years,  spends the rest of its previously active life,  on a sofa for 23 hours per day,  and if it's really lucky,  and weather permitting,  it gets taken for a walk.  

The very same problems arise with Thoroughbred horses which are out of training,  and at the age of 5-7 years,  they are taken on by Happy Hackers,  and all so often with predictable results.

Generalisation is difficult,  but those adult greyhounds which have come out of training are rarely that amenable or accepting of obedience work,  and giving them their freedom has huge risks attached to it.

Line 2.  Again,  there are inherent problems with sheep dogs which have no outlet for their energies or their need for mental stimulation.  The rescue centres have a very high percentage of unmanageable or difficult sheep dogs.

Line 3.  The GSD has been bred,  since the 1920s (and probably before) as a domestic pet,  and by those with no clear wish to 'use' their dogs for the work which they were 'originally' bred for.  We therefore now have a secondary 'type' (if that's the right word),  which fits in fairly well with a domesticated existence,  though there are still throwbacks,  and it's these throwbacks which most of our Police Forces still rely on for a source of their dogs.

Your last paragraph;  I accept that it isn't the easiest question to deal with,  and I've also previously said that if we remove all 'Work-bred-breeds'  from the pet list,  then what are we left with?  Nonetheless,  it remains my argument that when people take on the breeds of purpose-bred dogs,  then they really do need to consider that they are taking on an animal,  possibly for 10-15 years,  which may have breed specific needs and requirements.  That isn't arrogance,  that's fact.

Your post has rather wandered away from the subject of Retired Greyhounds,  and I've followed you!  I'm sorry if you find my thoughts unpalatable.  I have opinions to which I'm entitled,  and arrogance it may be,  but if others would face up to the realities of canine ownership,  we wouldn't have so many ill-qualified breeders,  supplying so many ill-qualified owners,  who in turn are the bread and butter of so many ill-qualified rescue centres.

Alec.


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## {97702} (22 September 2014)

TrasaM said:



			So greyhounds should only be used for racing or coursing ? AND despatched atvthe end of their miserable working life.  

Does that mean therefore that;-

Collies should only ever be owned by farmers?

Hunting dogs by hunters? 

GSD's used only for security work?

And so on.. 
That leaves most of us who don't hunt, herd or whatever else should restrict our choice of dogs to those meant only for decorative purposes because keeping a dog and not utilising it's breed specific tendencies is wrong and deprives  or diminishes the dog in some way? 
Such arrogance ! 

Anyone want to swap me a pekinese for my deprived diminished pointer?
		
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Personally I ignore all the archaic and outdated opinions AS comes out with, he is not worth listening to....


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (22 September 2014)

Have trawled through a few comments here........ I'm with Alec on this one, very much so.

Am frankly appalled that any rescue organisation could be so irresponsible as to re-home what is basically a kill-on-sight predator animal, and a strong and very intelligent one at that, with  these new owners. A frail elderly person is just NOT going to be able to physically hold back a dog in kill-mode. Even a little dog can be strong when they see "prey".

Don't know whether it would be worth, OP, contacting the rescue organisation and telling them what has happened? and/or the RSPCA (of course, they may be one and the same  ).

Also perhaps local newspapers? Parish magazines? To make others aware basically.

If this can happen with a cat it could also attack another dog: with horrendous consequences.

Your poor puss: hope she is all right.


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## Flicker (22 September 2014)

I am another one with Alec.  If an animal has been trained from an early age to do one thing only, asking it to do something completely different is going to be extremely stressful for it.  Some animals adapt easily, some take more time.  Some don't adapt at all.   I have friends who are struggling with a rescue border collie.  She is not an old dog, but has an enormous amount of baggage due to her upbringing.  She escapes with Houdini like cleverness, is terrified of strange men, trailers, children, bikes, horses, cattle...  She can't go off lead anywhere because she just bolts off.  She raids the fridge and gorges herself, then sicks it all back up.  She has chewed all her teeth to stumps.  I can't imagine the life she must have led, poor little thing. They are going to give her as much training, structure and support as they can, but are also conscious that if she doesn't improve the kindest decision they can take for her is to put her to sleep.  She's a lucky girl to have wound up where she has a chance, but if she's still not happy in her new life, why force it?


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## {97702} (22 September 2014)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Have trawled through a few comments here........ I'm with Alec on this one, very much so.

Am frankly appalled that any rescue organisation could be so irresponsible as to re-home what is basically a kill-on-sight predator animal, and a strong and very intelligent one at that, with  these new owners. A frail elderly person is just NOT going to be able to physically hold back a dog in kill-mode. Even a little dog can be strong when they see "prey".

Don't know whether it would be worth, OP, contacting the rescue organisation and telling them what has happened? and/or the RSPCA (of course, they may be one and the same  ).

Also perhaps local newspapers? Parish magazines? To make others aware basically.

If this can happen with a cat it could also attack another dog: with horrendous consequences.

Your poor puss: hope she is all right.
		
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"Kill on sight predator animal" ???!!! Clearly you have never owned a rescue greyhound.....


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## {97702} (22 September 2014)

Flicker said:



			I am another one with Alec.  If an animal has been trained from an early age to do one thing only, asking it to do something completely different is going to be extremely stressful for it.  Some animals adapt easily, some take more time.  Some don't adapt at all.   I have friends who are struggling with a rescue border collie.  She is not an old dog, but has an enormous amount of baggage due to her upbringing.  She escapes with Houdini like cleverness, is terrified of strange men, trailers, children, bikes, horses, cattle...  She can't go off lead anywhere because she just bolts off.  She raids the fridge and gorges herself, then sicks it all back up.  She has chewed all her teeth to stumps.  I can't imagine the life she must have led, poor little thing. They are going to give her as much training, structure and support as they can, but are also conscious that if she doesn't improve the kindest decision they can take for her is to put her to sleep.  She's a lucky girl to have wound up where she has a chance, but if she's still not happy in her new life, why force it?
		
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And another who clearly has never had a rescue greyhound.....


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## Alec Swan (22 September 2014)

The curious thing about racing dogs is that those which are retired early are probably the brightest of them.  No dog chases a lure for fun.  The dog does so in the belief that it will catch and kill what it chases.  When dogs work out for themselves,  that their efforts will be to no avail,  then that's all so often when they fail to put in the effort,  and hence they are retired.  The moral aspect of breeding dogs which will probably only ever be fit for one purpose,  and then to kill them before they reach a true maturity,  is a question which we all have to answer for ourselves,  I suppose.

Flicker,  the ability of some dogs,  to 'self harm' is truly dreadful.  'Self harm' takes many forms.  I've no idea where you or your friends are based,  but I wonder if it might be an idea for me to head you,  or them,  in the direction of someone who is an experienced Sheep-dog Trialler.  Such people are dotted all over the country,  and they are generally a decent bunch of people;  possibly old and archaic in their methods,  but by demonstration,  they can establish their points.  

I would avoid the behaviourists,  were I in the shoes of your friends,  and seek out those who know what they're talking about.  If you think that I can be of help,  then PM me.  It seems a shame to see a dog put down,  for a lack of direction.

Alec.


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## Queenbee (22 September 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			So you would have an otherwise perfectly healthy dog who could go to a nice home killed just because it was no longer good enough for racing? 

As for your wanting all Greyhounds to be muzzled while out in public and that they were trained for 'killing'. What a load of nonsense! Greyhounds are usually trained to chase NOT to kill. Sure some trainers will use live prey to keep them 'keen', but not all of them do. And my Greyhound does NOT need a muzzle. She and my other dog do get a lot of off lead time, but only in places where there aren't likely to be cats or other dogs. 

To the OP. I am really sorry that your cat was attacked and am glad she is on the mend, but please remember that this was an unforseen accident. The woman might have had dogs before and never had anything like this happen. To blame the breed for this is also unfair. Just about any breed is capable of chasing and attacking a cat. I also knew a man a couple of years ago when he patrolled the paths in my area at school time. He was probably in his late sixties and would bring his Greyhounds with him. He took good care of them and they were given plenty of off lead exercise. So a person's age doesn't necessarily mean they won't be able to fulfil a dog's needs.

So Alec I am quite frankly disgusted by your comments and Queenbee, please be thankful that you cat is okay and calm down. I know I would be fuming if my dogs were attacked, but if it were a genuine accident then it would be slighly better than if somebody had deliberately set their dogs on mine.
		
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I am very grateful believe me, however I personally don't see that when comparing negligence and ignorance resulting in an accident vs a deliberate attack one is any less awful than the first.  You said you exercise your dogs unmuzzled in areas away from other dogs/cats, but that is you being responsible.  What exactly do you think is appropriate when you have an ex racer whose character you don't know and your only option is to walk out of your front door in an area that is built up with lots of pet cats?  You may be able to control your animal but this old lady would have difficulty controlling a chihuahua.  That dog should not have been placed with her, especially without a full appraisal, and she should not have been walking it through that area unmuzzled without knowing its character. It is that simple.


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## Queenbee (22 September 2014)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Have trawled through a few comments here........ I'm with Alec on this one, very much so.

Am frankly appalled that any rescue organisation could be so irresponsible as to re-home what is basically a kill-on-sight predator animal, and a strong and very intelligent one at that, with  these new owners. A frail elderly person is just NOT going to be able to physically hold back a dog in kill-mode. Even a little dog can be strong when they see "prey".

Don't know whether it would be worth, OP, contacting the rescue organisation and telling them what has happened? and/or the RSPCA (of course, they may be one and the same  ).

Also perhaps local newspapers? Parish magazines? To make others aware basically.

If this can happen with a cat it could also attack another dog: with horrendous consequences.

Your poor puss: hope she is all right.
		
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I have contacted them, I explained that it was a very bad match, that the dog deserved better and the woman did too.  After being standoffish, they were pretty helpful and are going to try and find better solution for both the dog and the old lady... Lol, but I did laugh at the beginning when she said oh none of our greyhounds are ever muzzled.  I know many people that have extensive experience with a range of sight hounds including racers who would flip at such a irresponsible practice.  It's not bad if you know the dogs temperament etc but with dogs you know nothing about, it's idiotic and Wreckless.


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## honetpot (22 September 2014)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Have trawled through a few comments here........ I'm with Alec on this one, very much so.

Am frankly appalled that any rescue organisation could be so irresponsible as to re-home what is basically a kill-on-sight predator animal, and a strong and very intelligent one at that, with  these new owners. A frail elderly person is just NOT going to be able to physically hold back a dog in kill-mode. Even a little dog can be strong when they see "prey".

Don't know whether it would be worth, OP, contacting the rescue organisation and telling them what has happened? and/or the RSPCA (of course, they may be one and the same  ).

Also perhaps local newspapers? Parish magazines? To make others aware basically.

If this can happen with a cat it could also attack another dog: with horrendous consequences.

Your poor puss: hope she is all right.
		
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''kill-on-sight predator animal'', could be a JR, but they because they are small are considered no threat, and very often ill disciplined but they are just a capable of killing any cat and nipping any child.
 Dogs as always are only as dangerous as their owners allow them to be.


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## Flicker (22 September 2014)

Lévrier;12626076 said:
			
		


			And another who clearly has never had a rescue greyhound.....
		
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My post was about a border collie.  And generally about some animals being more adaptable to new circumstances than others.


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## Flicker (22 September 2014)

Alec, thank you.  I will ask them whether they are going anywhere in particular for her training or whether they could do with a steer.  They are good, sensible people, they will do right by her.


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## lastchancer (23 September 2014)

Lévrier;12626074 said:
			
		


			"Kill on sight predator animal" ???!!! Clearly you have never owned a rescue greyhound.....
		
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No, but our next door neighbors did, it jumped the fence and killed my mothers cat leaving her heartbroken. It was sent back to the rescue and most likely re-homed to another ignorant do-gooder to do the same thing. If I'd had a gun I'd have shot it, along with the owners and the deluded idiot rescue center that re-homed it to them.


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## lastchancer (23 September 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			Your post has rather wandered away from the subject of Retired Greyhounds,  and I've followed you!  I'm sorry if you find my thoughts unpalatable.  I have opinions to which I'm entitled,  and arrogance it may be,  but if others would face up to the realities of canine ownership,  we wouldn't have so many ill-qualified breeders,  supplying so many ill-qualified owners,  who in turn are the bread and butter of so many ill-qualified rescue centres.

Alec.
		
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Absolutely right, and the same goes for horses too.


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## {97702} (23 September 2014)

lastchancer said:



			No, but our next door neighbors did, it jumped the fence and killed my mothers cat leaving her heartbroken. It was sent back to the rescue and most likely re-homed to another ignorant do-gooder to do the same thing. If I'd had a gun I'd have shot it, along with the owners and the deluded idiot rescue center that re-homed it to them.
		
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Wow. One of those posts which make me so glad that this is just a forum & I don't have to know those who contribute in real life.


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## {97702} (23 September 2014)

Flicker said:



			My post was about a border collie.  And generally about some animals being more adaptable to new circumstances than others.
		
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I was referring to your comment that an animal trained for one purpose in life will find it "stressful" to adapt to another lifestyle - not true in the cases of the many rescue greyhounds I have known


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## lastchancer (23 September 2014)

Lévrier;12626964 said:
			
		


			Wow. One of those posts which make me so glad that this is just a forum & I don't have to know those who contribute in real life.
		
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I'm awesome in real life, just not keen on irresponsible muppets causing misery to people. I also like greyhounds, but not enough to let them kill my pets.


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## {97702} (23 September 2014)

lastchancer said:



			I'm awesome in real life, just not keen on irresponsible muppets causing misery to people. I also like greyhounds, but not enough to let them kill my pets.
		
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So awesome you would shoot a dog, it's owners & the rescue representatives just for an accident (which I will say was clearly preventable by responsible dog owners) where a cat died? Not my definition of an awesome person, it makes my blood run cold


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## lastchancer (23 September 2014)

Lévrier;12626971 said:
			
		


			So awesome you would shoot a dog, it's owners & the rescue representatives just for an accident (which I will say was clearly preventable by responsible dog owners) where a cat died? Not my definition of an awesome person, it makes my blood run cold 

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I exaggerated. I'd only shoot the dog. Why should the dogs life be more valuable than a cats? Yes it could have been prevented but it wasn't because the dog had fallen into the hands of idiots. Which of course illustrates the problem with re-homing such dogs, and I dare say is why people like Alec would prefer to pts his retired greyhounds rather than re-home. This kind of problem isn't just about greyhounds though, it's relevent to all breeds and species of animal. If rescues would do what needs to be done and dispose of those with questionable temperaments there would be far fewer animals in need of rescue and the good ones wouldn't be stuck in second rate shelters desperately waiting to find a kind home.


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## darli (23 September 2014)

lastchancer said:



			I exaggerated. I'd only shoot the dog. Why should the dogs life be more valuable than a cats? Yes it could have been prevented but it wasn't because the dog had fallen into the hands of idiots. Which of course illustrates the problem with re-homing such dogs, and I dare say is why people like Alec would prefer to pts his retired greyhounds rather than re-home. This kind of problem isn't just about greyhounds though, it's relevent to all breeds and species of animal. If rescues would do what needs to be done and dispose of those with questionable temperaments there would be far fewer animals in need of rescue and the good ones wouldn't be stuck in second rate shelters desperately waiting to find a kind home.
		
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Can I shoot the cat that killed one of my pond fish last night then?  

OP I fully understand your upset and would feel that way myself should it have happened to one of my cats and am sorry that it happened. I have, unfortunately, witnessed a similar incident when a neighbours cat was hunting in a horses field behind their garden.  One of the liveries dogs, a weimeraner killed it out right. The dog hadn't been trained to kill live animals, hadn't been trained to chase, wasn't a hunter and was a very well trained family pet.  All parties were extremely upset.  I guess I am saying that it could happen with any breed anywhere.
do think the rescue is at fault with it's re homing policy and that they really have to revisit that.  I know we complain about some of the rescues being overly strict with their policies there is a rescue near me that homed a three year old Dobie to a new dog owner who lived on her own but work 12 hour shifts, never had a dog before and the poor dog had seperation issues.  Never should have re homed to her, fortunately the lady soon realised that it was unfair to have a dog in her situation and she returned him.

Hope your cat continues to recover.


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## Love_my_Lurcher (23 September 2014)

darli said:



			Can I shoot the cat that killed one of my pond fish last night then?  

OP I fully understand your upset and would feel that way myself should it have happened to one of my cats and am sorry that it happened. I have, unfortunately, witnessed a similar incident when a neighbours cat was hunting in a horses field behind their garden.  One of the liveries dogs, a weimeraner killed it out right. The dog hadn't been trained to kill live animals, hadn't been trained to chase, wasn't a hunter and was a very well trained family pet.  All parties were extremely upset.  I guess I am saying that it could happen with any breed anywhere.
do think the rescue is at fault with it's re homing policy and that they really have to revisit that.  I know we complain about some of the rescues being overly strict with their policies there is a rescue near me that homed a three year old Dobie to a new dog owner who lived on her own but work 12 hour shifts, never had a dog before and the poor dog had seperation issues.  Never should have re homed to her, fortunately the lady soon realised that it was unfair to have a dog in her situation and she returned him.

Hope your cat continues to recover.
		
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Yes, ANY breed is capable of attacking a cat and that is what I have already said. I am sick of some on here blaming Greyhounds and sight hounds in general. 

However I do think that some rescues should not be as strict as they are. The Dog's Trust refused to give my Mum and I an older staffie when we were first looking for a dog. They did so because he had been a stray and we did not have much experience with the breed. But how on earth are you supposed to get experience of a breed if a rescue will not give you one? My Mum and I had a really strong gut feeling about the dog and that he would have been a good dog for us. However the DT refused us. We ended up getting Brochan from the Edinburgh Dog and Cat Home. Now Brochan had been a stray, but they still let us have him. Turns out he has been a perfect addition to our family. When we considered a second dog we went back to the DT and it turned out the staffie would have been right for us as he had been in a foster home and he would have ticked all the boxes. We adopted him, but Brochan would not accept him in the house. We had to take him back the next day. We later found out that he went to another home, but was returned again because one of their dogs attacked him. He ended up spending the last of his days at the DT and in a foster home. That poor dog would not have gone through that if the DT had just given him to us in the first place.  I do have to wonder how many dogs are still in rescue centres because people like my Mum and I had been refused on the basis of 'the dog has been a stray so is therefore unsuitable for you' and 'you have never had the breed before so you cannot have this dog'. I am sorry, but if they refuse because of those things then they are doing their dogs a massive disfavour. They are denying them the chance of a good home based on what if's and maybes. I am not advocating that rescues give to any old person that walks through the door, but if a person demonstrates a willingness to learn about a particular breed and to  work with whatever problems the dog may have then I do think they should get the chance of having a dog.

Regarding your opening sentence. I would like to ask those of you who let your cats roam the streets the following question. Why is it okay to let your cats out when they will then go on to kill birds (including chickens, racing pigeons and endangered wild birds) and poop in other peoples gardens? It wouldn't be okay if dogs were to do the same thing. You are also jeopardizing the safety of your cats by letting them out. Not only are they at risk from being attacked by dogs and nasty humans, they could also be killed on the road or they could cause a serious accident. Perhaps if you kept your cats indoors or in an enclosed outdoor run then they wouldn't be at risk from injury themselves nor would they pose a risk to others. You are furious about people not keeping their dogs under control, but what about your cats who are not under any sort of control? This is perhaps not the time to be asking those things, but I do think it needs saying. To the OP. This is NOT an attack on you, but it is something I am curious about.

For the record I do like cats and don't think they should be harmed, but I do think that if precautions were taken then no harm would come to them. A friend of mine has several cats. She always used to keep them indoors or in an outdoor run. She then got a cat who was used to roaming outdoors. He inspired her to start letting her other cats out. One of her other cats was killed a couple of weeks later on the road.


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## Love_my_Lurcher (23 September 2014)

Lévrier;12626971 said:
			
		


			So awesome you would shoot a dog, it's owners & the rescue representatives just for an accident (which I will say was clearly preventable by responsible dog owners) where a cat died? Not my definition of an awesome person, it makes my blood run cold 

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That is pretty much what I was going to say.


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## Meowy Catkin (23 September 2014)

So what are you saying LML? That cat owners are to blame if their cat is attacked by a dog, because they should either keep the cat indoors or in a run?


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## Love_my_Lurcher (23 September 2014)

Lévrier;12625830 said:
			
		


			Personally I ignore all the archaic and outdated opinions AS comes out with, he is not worth listening to....
		
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That is what I have come to believe as well. If I can remember correctly he once said that he kills his OWN dogs with a bolt gun.  

I posted a thread a while ago asking for help with regards to my Greyhound's peeing, toilet training and a few other issues she was having. He more or less said that I had a bad one.

It is attitudes like his that makes me despise the human race even more. The belief that when a non human is no longer fit for purpose then it should be killed and nobody should ever take the animal on to give it a better home just fills me with rage. 

To AS. My Greyhound has adapted to home life extremely well. She LOVES the sofa and LOVES playing with her toys and my other dog. She lives a life of luxury and is no longer confined to small kennels nor is she made to race. The scars on her body (caused by being kept in concrete kennels and from racing itself) have more or less healed. Just how are those things bad for her? If her previous owner had the same mindset as you then she would have been killed. She would never have known what it was like to have people who actually loved her for her and not for the money that she could make. She would never have known life away from racing. And my Mum and I would not have our incredibly sweet Greyhound girl.


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## Love_my_Lurcher (23 September 2014)

Faracat said:



			So what are you saying LML? That cat owners are to blame if their cat is attacked by a dog, because they should either keep the cat indoors or in a run?
		
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I can remember a while back that there was a thread about a dog that was hit by a car and other members blamed the dog's owner for not keeping better control of it. So why should cats be any different? 

So yes I am in a way saying that cat owners should be more responsible for their cats. 

To me it is a tad hypocritical to say that people need to control their dogs all the while letting their cats out to do whatever they want and to possibly get themselves or somebody injured or worse. I have also come across cat poo in both my front and back garden and it's not pleasant.


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## twiggy2 (23 September 2014)

some dogs kill cats, some dogs kill rabbits etc etc etc

some dogs dont.

OP I am glad your cat appears OK and agree the rescue centre are to blame and pleased you have made them aware of the situation.

racing greyhounds are not trained to kill, although the drive to catch the 'rag' is often due to the desire to catch it I agree.

years ago my dads friend had a beautiful ex racing greyhound called saxon, he did not retire till he was 4yrs and had been very very successful on the track and used as a stud dog due to his breeding and success-he lived on a small holding with my dads friend, they had free range chickens, ducks, turkeys lots and lots and lots of cats and kittens, 2 small dogs, rabbits and guinea pigs in runs, he spent 5 years on that farm till he was PTS and he never showed any interest in killing anything-I do think it is unusual but does show you cannot assume that they are all the same.

a responsible owner will be prepared to muzzle an ex racer till they have a good idea of temperament and a good recall and it can take plenty of time but is possible with many


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## Meowy Catkin (23 September 2014)

Wow LML, that's a hell of a stance to take.


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## Clodagh (23 September 2014)

Faracat said:



			Wow LML, that's a hell of a stance to take.
		
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Absolutely! I am not a cat fan and don't welcome them in my garden but would expect my lurcher to leave them alone if we met one out on a walk. Ditto small fluffy dogs. Rabbits/squirrels etc I have never bothered teaching her to leave.


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## Alec Swan (23 September 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			That is what I have come to believe as well. If I can remember correctly he once said that he kills his OWN dogs with a bolt gun.  

&#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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Would you care to explain to us what a 'bolt gun' is?

If you remember correctly?  If you remember correctly and weren't quite so quick to judge,  and if you weren't as some others,  so quick to form opinions based upon ignorance,  you would remember that I've always emphasised the point that when I bring my dog's life to a close,  it is done with humanity and with the dog's well being to the fore.

Consider this;  Have you ever stood and watched a vet nurse put a slip lead on a difficult dog and pull the lead through a doorway,  with the dog pulled up against a closing door,  so that a vet could get a needle into the kidney of a fighting and struggling and screaming dog,  because there was no other way?  You haven't?  Well I have.  Not all humane destructions are as I've described,  but having witnessed such treatment,  no one else will ever put a dog of mine to sleep.  I've also witnessed the botched dispatch of cats and horses,  and again,  I take responsibility for mine.

I put my own dogs down in an environment where they are at peace,  where there is no perceived threat and where their passing is instant.  That's how my horses leave this world too.  I don't expect you to understand me,  because you will probably be one of those who hands your dog over to total strangers,  and you leave them to complete the dirty work,  with the only thought being whether you can 'cope with it,  or not'.

I put my own dogs to sleep,  it is a job which I loathe,  and when it's over,  I shed my tears,  I dig a hole,  and I have the certain knowledge that I've faced my responsibilities.  I don't expect others to be able to deal with the situation as I do,  but take exception to those who would judge from a position of the ill informed.  

I object to being judged by those who are not qualified,  and you are amongst them.

Alec.


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## honetpot (23 September 2014)

Dear Alec, bad things happen sometimes, unfortunately things go wrong despite every ones best efforts but for the majority of us the vets needle is a peaceful passing for our animals. The vet comes to my house to inject my dogs, cats, and Floppy the goat in their homes and on their own sofa, not the goat. The majority of us would not have the skill to despatch any animal even if we thought doing otherwise would be letting someone else do our 'dirty work'. I value the huntsmans services as much as the vet and I always say thank you and give them a gift.
 My one armed next door neighbour once asked to borrow a shot gun from another neighbour to put destroy a cat, they were more concerned about the vets fee than the animals welfare. Who wants the thousands of people doing botched jobs with animals for practice, you do not need to be qualified in any way to realise its not a good idea.


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## Amymay (24 September 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			That is what I have come to believe as well. If I can remember correctly he once said that he kills his OWN dogs with a bolt gun.  .
		
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And???? Does this mean he has any less compassion for his animals than you? No of course not. As an experienced countryman he simply chooses to dispatch his animals in a way he feels is _best_ for them - as he has the experience and skill to do that.

I couldn't do it, but I salute the person that can (again, with the interests of the animal being foremost).

I agree with Honetpot, in that my animals have always been dispatched by a vet or huntsman - stressless and with compassion. However that doesn't mean that AS is wrong in his actions. He just chooses a different method.  Because he can.


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## Mitchyden (24 September 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			I can remember a while back that there was a thread about a dog that was hit by a car and other members blamed the dog's owner for not keeping better control of it. So why should cats be any different? 

So yes I am in a way saying that cat owners should be more responsible for their cats. 

To me it is a tad hypocritical to say that people need to control their dogs all the while letting their cats out to do whatever they want and to possibly get themselves or somebody injured or worse. I have also come across cat poo in both my front and back garden and it's not pleasant.
		
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These are my thoughts exactly. I do not particularly like cats although I would not harm or want to see one harmed. I have never understood why cats are allowed to roam around doing exactly what they like with no liability on the owner. 

When I was a child, our neighbour had approximately a dozen cats which were frequently in our garden, my mum was a keen gardener and got fed up with putting her hands in cat poo whenever she was tending to her garden. One day, one of the cats was killed when it went into a neighbour's garden and the dog attacked it. There was complete uproar from the cat owner as she said the dog was dangerous etc. As far as I'm concerned, the cat was in someone else's property so I don't see how the cat owner could really complain, upset obviously I understand.

I strongly believe that cats should not be allowed to roam around just like dogs are not allowed to.


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## planete (24 September 2014)

Regarding the keeping of cats.  I have stopped having cats even though I loved the ones I had over past years.  Why?  Because I believe it is wrong to deny such an animal the freedom to be a cat and roam and hunt so would not keep one confined, and I got fed up of waiting for them to be run over by the ubiquitous cars where I now live in the built up south of England.  I would simply feel selfish if I kept cats in such unsuitable conditions for my own satisfaction.  As we also grow some vegetables I can sympathise as well with not liking finding cats offerings in the vegetable beds.


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## Clodagh (24 September 2014)

Seconded Amymay. My husband shoots his dogs, it tears him to pieces doing it but they are working dogs who see the gun and think all good things. He would never take them to the vets, stress them out, argue about the need to PTS then bring the body home. They are shot and buried in the garden or wood.
My lurcher is gun shy so she will have the vet come out (unless it is an emergency) but 9/10 shooting at home is best for our dogs.


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			I can remember a while back that there was a thread about a dog that was hit by a car and other members blamed the dog's owner for not keeping better control of it. So why should cats be any different? 

So yes I am in a way saying that cat owners should be more responsible for their cats. 

To me it is a tad hypocritical to say that people need to control their dogs all the while letting their cats out to do whatever they want and to possibly get themselves or somebody injured or worse. I have also come across cat poo in both my front and back garden and it's not pleasant.
		
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Urgh, your attitude makes me sick.  My cat was not hit by a car, it was attacked by a dog, a dog the woman could not control.  I see little to no validity in any of your arguments, and yes, I find your attitude rude and full of prejudice.  How dare you come on here and insinuate that it is my fault because I didn't take care of my cat????!!!!

MY cat was asleep in a garden! my neighbours garden where she is very welcome. She was hardly running a muck with a big sign saying "bait - free for mauling".  The dog was out of control, the women completely unable to control it.


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## MerrySherryRider (24 September 2014)

My cats have been very good at avoiding being mauled by dogs. The only exception was when a nursing queen was killed as she  too slow to escape a couple of GSD's that got loose from a neighbours garden. Of course I was devastated as was the owner of the dogs. 
 However, rather than demand the dogs were rehomed and labelled as dangerous, the owner of the dogs put a different lock on the gate and instructed her children to never use the side gate when the dogs were in the garden. 
Quite honestly, the biggest problem I've had, has come from unneutered Tom's attacking my cats, rather than other dogs or even foxes. 

Perhaps QB, instead of taking it upon yourself to speak to the rehoming charity, if you'd had a rational discussion with the owner to see if she was confident that she could manage the dog and was willing to always muzzle it on walks, an acceptable solution might have been found without you taking it upon yourself to decide that the dog should be homeless again. Have you given your neighbour a list of dog breeds acceptable to you ?


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

Perhaps MSR if you bothered to read the post you would see that I spoke with the owner before I spoke to the rehoming centre. She is NOT able to control the dog. She is eighty and quite frail, in addition she is worried about walking the dog as she knows he is to strong for her, now she and her daughter walk him with two leads, however this is clearly not practical, notwithstanding the fact that her daughter is dying of cancer, soon the woman will be left alone with a dog she can't control. She actually did ask my advice on breeds and I reccomended she speak to the rehoming centre who have contacts with a whippet rehoming centre, a bit smaller for her, something she is very interested in looking into.  I have rung the centre and left a message to call me within 24hrs with an update as promised, and will be talking with the council regardless to have specific safeguarding measures put in place on the dog wherever it ends up.  On top of all of this, I comforted the woman who broke down in tears, I comforted her when my cat had been mauled by her dog, and went the following day to assure her my cat was still alive and ok

These include
Muzzled at all times in public
An appropriate handler that can control the dog at all times in public
Restriction that it can not be walked past my house.


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## {97702} (24 September 2014)

I find it hard to believe that they would allow a restriction that would not allow someone to walk a dog past your house when they would be doing so in a public area?  And if the dog is muzzled and with an appropriate handler, why should it not be walked past your house?  Just curious, not wishing to be confrontational (for a change...!!)


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## {97702} (24 September 2014)

honetpot said:



			Dear Alec, bad things happen sometimes, unfortunately things go wrong despite every ones best efforts but for the majority of us the vets needle is a peaceful passing for our animals. The vet comes to my house to inject my dogs, cats, and Floppy the goat in their homes and on their own sofa, not the goat. The majority of us would not have the skill to despatch any animal even if we thought doing otherwise would be letting someone else do our 'dirty work'. I value the huntsmans services as much as the vet and I always say thank you and give them a gift.
 My one armed next door neighbour once asked to borrow a shot gun from another neighbour to put destroy a cat, they were more concerned about the vets fee than the animals welfare. Who wants the thousands of people doing botched jobs with animals for practice, you do not need to be qualified in any way to realise its not a good idea.
		
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Second this entirely - the idea that an individual can destroy their own dogs in this way is a potential recipe for disaster.  Personally I appear to have been very lucky, as every dog I have had PTS (and there have been a great many over the years, both my own dogs and others) have gone quietly to the vets and have had the lethal injection without fuss.


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## bonny (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Perhaps MSR if you bothered to read the post you would see that I spoke with the owner before I spoke to the rehoming centre. She is NOT able to control the dog. She is eighty and quite frail. I have rung the centre and left a message to call me within 24hrs with an update as promised, and will be talking with the council regardless to have specific safeguarding measures put in place on the dog wherever it ends up.

These include
Muzzled at all times in public
An appropriate handler that can control the dog at all times in public
Restriction that it can not be walked past my house.
		
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I think you are getting this totally out of proportion, your cat is fine, and regardless of what you think, this woman is entitled to have a greyhound or whatever else she wishes. You've told the rehoming centre your concerns and I think you should leave it at that. Dictating where the dog walks or with whom is not your business!


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

Lévrier;12628419 said:
			
		


			I find it hard to believe that they would allow a restriction that would not allow someone to walk a dog past your house when they would be doing so in a public area?  And if the dog is muzzled and with an appropriate handler, why should it not be walked past your house?  Just curious, not wishing to be confrontational (for a change...!!)
		
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Lol, please see control measures on this link... It's standard across the uk but certain councils may have additional bylaws, for example one poster has already mentioned a bylaw they know of in one county that requires all ex racers to be muzzled.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/controlling-your-dog-in-public


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## bonny (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Lol, please see control measures on this link... It's standard across the uk but certain councils may have additional bylaws, for example one poster has already mentioned a bylaw they know of in one county that requires all ex racers to be muzzled.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/controlling-your-dog-in-public

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It's one thing to have a by law that affects everyone, another to dictate what individuals can and cannot do themselves, the latter is a matter for the courts, not the council.


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

bonny said:



			I think you are getting this totally out of proportion, your cat is fine, and regardless of what you think, this woman is entitled to have a greyhound or whatever else she wishes. You've told the rehoming centre your concerns and I think you should leave it at that. Dictating where the dog walks or with whom is not your business!
		
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Actually it is, it is also my legal right since my cat was attacked.  Two days ago a vet and I discussed the incident and he said it was very rare for a cat to survive.  Plus the woman is frightened, doesn't feel she can control him and feels she has made a mistake taking him on.  It is my right to protect my animals and I am responsible for ensuring their safety!


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

bonny said:



			It's one thing to have a by law that affects everyone, another to dictate what individuals can and cannot do themselves, the latter is a matter for the courts, not the council.
		
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Actually not entirely, owners can be fined up to £1000 for an incident where a dog attacks a pet, and certain measures (as previously discussed are put in place) it's that simple, it's the law and your opinion on it doesn't make it less so.

Just to clarify that point (see this link for control orders that can be issued by the council)
https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/dog-control-orders


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## bonny (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Actually not entirely, owners can be fined up to £1000 for an incident where a dog attacks a pet, and certain measures (as previously discussed are put in place) it's that simple, it's the law and your opinion on it doesn't make it less so.
		
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You have a strange way of seeing the world, understable I suppose as your cat was the first in history to be attacked by a dog so I guess it calls for very strict conditions about what this woman can and cannot do in future. Last question before I cannot look at this ridiculous thread anyone, what would you do if the woman and her greyhound did walk past your house again ? Call the police ?


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## TrasaM (24 September 2014)

Queenbee. How's pussy doing? Has she got over the shock? My two are currently being plagued by some new cats on the block and my very tiny female is doing a staunch job of protecting her territory.


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## MerrySherryRider (24 September 2014)

Yep, did read the post Queenbee. If the lady was able to get to the rehoming charity and deal with them to choose a dog, surely she's competent enough to phone them herself for advice after the incident ? It seems you responded in an overly dramatic way and have crushed the confidence of the woman who is now worried that you are watching her like a hawk.
Now you're off to the council to further your crusade against the dog and owner. Why do you want the council to ban the dog walking past your house and to dictate who walks the dog ? Words fail me.


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## {97702} (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Lol, please see control measures on this link... It's standard across the uk but certain councils may have additional bylaws, for example one poster has already mentioned a bylaw they know of in one county that requires all ex racers to be muzzled.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/controlling-your-dog-in-public

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That is Northern Irish legislation not English?  ETA - even the link you have given to the English website doesnt not give allowance to stop someone walking a dog past someone's house....


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

bonny said:



			You have a strange way of seeing the world, understable I suppose as your cat was the first in history to be attacked by a dog so I guess it calls for very strict conditions about what this woman can and cannot do in future. Last question before I cannot look at this ridiculous thread anyone, what would you do if the woman and her greyhound did walk past your house again ? Call the police ?
		
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No dear... It's just the law


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## {97702} (24 September 2014)

bonny said:



			You have a strange way of seeing the world, understable I suppose as your cat was the first in history to be attacked by a dog so I guess it calls for very strict conditions about what this woman can and cannot do in future. Last question before I cannot look at this ridiculous thread anyone, what would you do if the woman and her greyhound did walk past your house again ? Call the police ?
		
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You couldn't call the police as it would be a civil matter....


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## Love_my_Lurcher (24 September 2014)

bonny said:



			You have a strange way of seeing the world, understable I suppose as your cat was the first in history to be attacked by a dog so I guess it calls for very strict conditions about what this woman can and cannot do in future. Last question before I cannot look at this ridiculous thread anyone, what would you do if the woman and her greyhound did walk past your house again ? Call the police ?
		
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I agree. The thread and the OP are getting out of hand. First the OP goes on a tirade and gives both the rescue centre and woman a hard time. Now she is trying to get the council/court to implement some kind of weird restriction on where the dog can be walked. If that's not enough the poor woman who adopted the dog is having to deal with her daughter's horrible illness. On Monday I attended the funeral of somebody who had been battling cancer for years. It ended up going through her whole body and in her last months a tumour had been pressing against her spine which paralyzed her. I also lost a friend last September to an illness which was similar to cancer. She was bed ridden for her last couple of months and believe you me the last thing that those two families would have needed was a person like the OP harassing them.


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Yep, did read the post Queenbee. If the lady was able to get to the rehoming charity and deal with them to choose a dog, surely she's competent enough to phone them herself for advice after the incident ? It seems you responded in an overly dramatic way and have crushed the confidence of the woman who is now worried that you are watching her like a hawk.
Now you're off to the council to further your crusade against the dog and owner. Why do you want the council to ban the dog walking past your house and to dictate who walks the dog ? Words fail me.
		
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Because she can't control it, and it chases cats?????!!!!!  Honestly, people are not allowed to have a dog out in public that they can not control... This isn't my law, it's THE law.  

And no, my response did not knock her confidence, her daughter was screaming at her that she told her she shouldn't have the dog, that it would be too much for her, she said to me "he's just too strong" she also said to me when she came to my house later that she had made a mistake getting himand she was scared of walking him because of the incident and his strength.  At this point, the only conversation I'd had with them was at the time of the incident when, to be fair I was only concerned with asking them to leave with their dogs so I could get my cat out from under the car and check her over.  I didn't create lack of confidence or lack of control or strength... They voiced these to me, I completely agreed, and yes I spoke with the rehoming centre, to express that this was an inappropriate homing, that he was too strong and a better match could be made for both dog and owner. They told me they would update me, they have not.  The old woman is petrified of walking him, this is not my fault.  I want the dog muzzled and in the right hands, and yes, if it is in my power to exercise my right to not have the dog walked past my house where my cats are, I see absolutely no reason why I damned well shouldn't exercises them.  Although hopefully the dog will be rehomed with someone more appropriate, and the elderly lady have a more apropriate dog she can control. it's unfair to the woman and to her dog.


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## Love_my_Lurcher (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Actually it is, it is also my legal right since my cat was attacked.  Two days ago a vet and I discussed the incident and he said it was very rare for a cat to survive.  Plus the woman is frightened, doesn't feel she can control him and feels she has made a mistake taking him on.  It is my right to protect my animals and I am responsible for ensuring their safety!
		
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How on earth can you say that you are responsible for ensuring your cat's safety when she is allowed to roam the streets where ANYTHING could happen to her? I know she was very sadly attacked and I truly am glad that she is okay, but the next time it could be a car and she might not be so lucky.

Even if it were seen as acceptable to let dogs roam the streets then there is no way that I would allow my dogs out on their own. There are far too many dangers out there.


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## Love_my_Lurcher (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Because she can't control it, and it chases cats?????!!!!!  Honestly, people are not allowed to have a dog out in public that they can not control... This isn't my law, it's THE law.  

And no, my response did not knock her confidence, her daughter was screaming at her that she told her she shouldn't have the dog, that it would be too much for her, she said to me "he's just too strong" she also said to me when she came to my house later that she had made a mistake getting himand she was scared of walking him because of the incident and his strength.  At this point, the only conversation I'd had with them was at the time of the incident when, to be fair I was only concerned with asking them to leave with their dogs so I could get my cat out from under the car and check her over.  I didn't create lack of confidence or lack of control or strength... They voiced these to me, I completely agreed, and yes I spoke with the rehoming centre, to express that this was an inappropriate homing, that he was too strong and a better match could be made for both dog and owner. They told me they would update me, they have not.  The old woman is petrified of walking him, this is not my fault.  I want the dog muzzled and in the right hands, and yes, if it is in my power to exercise my right to not have the dog walked past my house where my cats are, I see absolutely no reason why I damned well shouldn't exercises them.  Although hopefully the dog will be rehomed with someone more appropriate, and the elderly lady have a more apropriate dog she can control. it's unfair to the woman and to her dog.
		
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Well what breed of dog do you think would be acceptable for this woman? Earlier on you said she would have difficulty controlling a Chihuahua.


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			Well what breed of dog do you think would be acceptable for this woman? Earlier on you said she would have difficulty controlling a Chihuahua.
		
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Perhaps you would like to read the thread in full before asking a question I have already answered.


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## zigzag (24 September 2014)

Sorry but if you allow your cats to roam , you have to put up with the consequences.  As sadly I did.


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

Just got a call back from the centre, the guy who runs the whole charity, not the idiot who placed the dog with this woman.  He has recieved a message from the lady (idiot) at the kennels to say it is sorted, he has asked for more clarification on how, we can only assume the dog has been removed.  He has been really helpful and actually agrees, this dog should be muzzled at all times in publicly  have an appropriate handler. the new owner will be made fully aware of its history and chosen very carefully, with instructions to muzzle in public.  He is going to message me back with a full update as soon as he has one, and personally oversee this, as he recognises the severity of the issue and the impact on all involved.  Funny how some people on here seem to believe that this is excessive, but he does not, neither does he understand why this dog was re homed with this woman in the first place.


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

zigzag said:



			Sorry but if you allow your cats to roam , you have to put up with the consequences.  As sadly I did.
		
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No I should not have to put up.... With an out of control dog... This is unacceptable and not something anyone should have to put up with as it should not happen


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## dogatemysalad (24 September 2014)

zigzag said:



			Sorry but if you allow your cats to roam , you have to put up with the consequences.  As sadly I did.
		
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This is true. Perhaps the OP will also seek a ban on traffic passing her house and neighbouring cats too.


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			This is true. Perhaps the OP will also seek a ban on traffic passing her house and neighbouring cats too.
		
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I find your comment quite childish.  I wonder why it is seen as so abhorrent to some that I insist that a dog be kept under control.  It's is just as important for the dogs safety.  And the dog and the elderly lady should never have been put in such a position, you seem to be under the misconception that this is all about my cat, it's not, it is highly important to me that the dog has an appropriate home, an elderly vulnerable lady is not left with a dog she is frightened of walking because she can't control it and yes, that steps are taken to ensure that the chances of this dog attacking another cat are minimised as much as possible.  This has not been a fair deal for anyone involved, cat, dog or owners.


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## {97702} (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			He is going to message me back with a full update as soon as he has one, and personally oversee this, as he recognises the severity of the issue and the impact on all involved.  Funny how some people on here seem to believe that this is excessive, but he does not, neither does he understand why this dog was re homed with this woman in the first place.
		
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No, he recognises the bad publicity that is affecting his charity as a result of this incident and is trying to mitigate it - he is a manager, and must put aside his personal views on your complaint to deal with the matter professionally.


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## Love_my_Lurcher (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			I find your comment quite childish.  I wonder why it is seen as so abhorrent to some that I insist that a dog be kept under control.  It's is just as important for the dogs safety.
		
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It's not the fact that you _think_ that we perceive it as abhorrent to keep dogs under control. It is the fact that you are sat there preaching to us to keep dogs under control all the while your cat is allowed out to do whatever she likes and is under NO kind of control. Some of us are finding that to be a smidgen hypocritical. 

As for your wanting the dog to be prevented from walking past your house. Does that mean passing it from the other side of the street as well as on your side of the road? If so then it could well mean that the entire street is off limits to the dog. In which case your are being completely unreasonable.


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

Lévrier;12628572 said:
			
		


			No, he recognises the bad publicity that is affecting his charity as a result of this incident and is trying to mitigate it - he is a manager, and must put aside his personal views on your complaint to deal with the matter professionally.
		
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I'm assuming this is speculation.


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## Love_my_Lurcher (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Perhaps you would like to read the thread in full before asking a question I have already answered.
		
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I have read the whole thread. You started by saying that the woman would find it difficult to control a Chihuahua (the smallest breed of dog there is) and then you go on and say that a Whippet would be suitable. A Whippet is larger than a Chihuahua (although the Whippet is quite a small breed anyway), but one would require more exercise than a Chi and would also be stronger than a Chi. So which is it? Do you think the woman would actually have difficulty walking the smallest breed of dog or do you think she would be able to cope with a Whippet?


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## MurphysMinder (24 September 2014)

I wasn't going to reply to this thread, and sympathise with you on the attack on your cat.  However, having read all the posts  and your treatment of an 80 year old lady who is facing the loss of her daughter, I would answer the question in the title of the thread with , yes you are being unreasonable !


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

Love_my_Lurcher said:



			It's not the fact that you _think_ that we perceive it as abhorrent to keep dogs under control. It is the fact that you are sat there preaching to us to keep dogs under control all the while your cat is allowed out to do whatever she likes and is under NO kind of control. Some of us are finding that to be a smidgen hypocritical. 

As for your wanting the dog to be prevented from walking past your house. Does that mean passing it from the other side of the street as well as on your side of the road? If so then it could well mean that the entire street is off limits to the dog. In which case your are being completely unreasonable.
		
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It is a legal requirement for dogs to be kept under control in public places.  It has nothing to do with a cat.  My dogs are always kept under control.  If a dog is not under control or has attacked a person/livestock or pet, then the council can reasonably expect and insist that measures are put in place to control the dog.   It's about safeguarding a dogs life too!  This particular dog after dropping my cat chased across the road after her.   I personally don't think it's appropriate to compare cats and dogs in the manner you are, they are totally different animals, and have different lifestyle requirements. I did not say, that you or anyone else perceive it as abhorrent to keep dogs under control.  I asked why people find it abhorrent that I insist this dog is kept under control.  I adore dogs, I adore sight hounds and aside from anything else I see that what happened the other day was wreckless endangerment of a beautiful dog.


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## Love_my_Lurcher (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			It is a legal requirement for dogs to be kept under control in public places.  It has nothing to do with a cat.  My dogs are always kept under control.  If a dog is not under control or has attacked a person/livestock or pet, then the council can reasonably expect and insist that measures are put in place to control the dog.   It's about safeguarding a dogs life too!  This particular dog after dropping my cat chased across the road after her.   I personally don't think it's appropriate to compare cats and dogs in the manner you are, they are totally different animals, and have different lifestyle requirements. I did not say, that you or anyone else perceive it as abhorrent to keep dogs under control.  I asked why people find it abhorrent that I insist this dog is kept under control.  I adore dogs, I adore sight hounds and aside from anything else I see that what happened the other day was wreckless endangerment of a beautiful dog.
		
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Yes cats and dogs are different species and require different things, but that does NOT negate the FACT that both are just as susceptible to the dangers of the environment around them and that both can endanger others too. A loose dog  bolting across the road and causing an accident is no different to a cat doing the same thing. An unsupervised cat being lifted by some scumbag to be used as bait for dog fighting or coursing is no different to an unsupervised dog being taken to be used for the same purposes. If a dog got the chance then it could very well kill somebody elses pet or a wild animal. Cats can and have raided chicken coops, pigeon lofts, etc. A person could also be fined if they were caught letting their dog foul in a garden. The difference here is that a dog would be considered a menace if it did such things and authorities would place controls on the animal. Yet it seems to be acceptable when it's a cat. I am sorry, but I find that to be wrong on every level. Why do people who have dogs have to adhere to such laws yet people with cats have no such legal responsibilities?

I will also ask if somebody were to stroke/pick up a cat a street and got bitten and or scratched by said cat then would the cat's owner be held legally responsible or would it just be brushed off as an accident? This is also something that bugs me about horses. I can remember watching an episode of Helicopter Heroes and a boy had part of his ear bitten off by a horse. This was regarded as a 'freak accident'. Had it been a dog it would have been classified as a mauling and the owners punished by the law and not to mention the possible killing of the dog.


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

MurphysMinder said:



			I wasn't going to reply to this thread, and sympathise with you on the attack on your cat.  However, having read all the posts  and your treatment of an 80 year old lady who is facing the loss of her daughter, I would answer the question in the title of the thread with , yes you are being unreasonable !
		
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You have no idea just how much support I've been giving to this woman!  How angry I am that she was ever put into such an awful situation at a time when she has more than enough to deal with.  She knew and welcomed the fact that I was going to speak to the centre as she knew the dog was too much for her and was frightened of walking him after the incident. She's been worrying about her daughter, and her old dog, I've been guiding her with management tips for her old dog to make her last few days as comfortable as possible, listening to her about her daughter and comforting her, advising her when requested.  Updating her on my cat, as requested.  It is a responsible thing to ensure that this dog goes to its new home with accurate history, and as a result control measures of a muzzle and an appropriate handler.  The council can ensure this happens, that is all I want for the dog, as I said where it walks is not an issue to me as it is no longer in my town.  What I want for the owner is what she has expressed she wants, to not have the hassle of a dog like that, to have instead a loving and easy to do companion, she asked my opinion as she knows I have a whippet, and I discussed whippets with her at her request.

I am truly offended that you could accuse me of bad treatment, far from distressing her I've been supporting her and calming her.  Because I think she was put in an appalling position.


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## MurphysMinder (24 September 2014)

So as you clearly feel you haven't been unreasonable, why ask the question!


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## MotherOfChickens (24 September 2014)

cats and the liability of having them roam free isn't relevant here IMO. The fact is cats _can_ roam free whatever the rights and wrongs of it or whether 'you' like it or not. If you're a cat owner that allows a cat to roam then you do have to accept an element of risk from RTA/wandering off but I don't think you have to accept the risk of a dog attack-dogs shouldn't be attacking anything. 

Other animals are not worth less than a dog and as a dog owner, if you have a dog that's liable to chase and harm _anything_ else, it should be under control-end of.  If this story was about sheep it would be a different thread entirely I suspect.


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## lurcherlu (24 September 2014)

Better than any drama this...... ( fetches the popcorn )


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## Alec Swan (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Because she can't control it, and it chases cats?????!!!!!  Honestly, people are not allowed to have a dog out in public that they can not control... This isn't my law, it's THE law.  

&#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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I'm sorry,  but the OP is entirely correct.  The Law requires that those who have a dog in their care are responsible for its actions.  The same conditions do not apply to those who own cats.  

There will be those on here who having read a book or two or listened to what they want to believe,  will be authorities on Greyhounds which have been in training and have raced.  The realities are all so often different from their beliefs.  

Perhaps I can explain;  Greyhounds chase the lure in the belief that they will catch it.  They also believe that having caught it,  they have achieved their prize.  During the days of when Coursing was legal,  the prize for the dog,  was to kill its prey.  Greyhounds don't act to please man,  but themselves,  and it's this self centred approach which can make them difficult to deal with,  in short,  for generations Greyhounds have been bred for one purpose,  and one only,  and in part to the detriment of the breed.  Accepting that they are all so often a most amenable and kindly breed of dog,  there are those examples,  especially those which are just out of training which are nonetheless,  testing!

Just about every Greyhound which has been in training has the potential to be a danger to those things which are small and furry,  and the simplest route is that those dogs,  particularly the 'recently-re-homed',  should wear muzzles in public,  until either the owner is confident that they have full physical control,  or that the neutered dog becomes so old and ungainly that it's no longer a threat.

Every owner of every dog is responsible for the animals actions,  regardless of the animal's predisposition to any certain behaviour pattern.  Would we consider that a horse which kicks out in the public arena should be excused simply because "Well that's what horses do"?  We are all responsible for our dogs,  and that's both morally and in the eyes of The Law.

Alec.


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## Love_my_Lurcher (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			You have no idea just how much support I've been giving to this woman!  How angry I am that she was ever put into such an awful situation at a time when she has more than enough to deal with.  She knew and welcomed the fact that I was going to speak to the centre as she knew the dog was too much for her and was frightened of walking him after the incident. She's been worrying about her daughter, and her old dog, I've been guiding her with management tips for her old dog to make her last few days as comfortable as possible, listening to her about her daughter and comforting her, advising her when requested.  Updating her on my cat, as requested.  It is a responsible thing to ensure that this dog goes to its new home with accurate history, and as a result control measures of a muzzle and an appropriate handler.  The council can ensure this happens, that is all I want for the dog, as I said where it walks is not an issue to me as it is no longer in my town.  What I want for the owner is what she has expressed she wants, to not have the hassle of a dog like that, to have instead a loving and easy to do companion, she asked my opinion as she knows I have a whippet, and I discussed whippets with her at her request.

I am truly offended that you could accuse me of bad treatment, far from distressing her I've been supporting her and calming her.  Because I think she was put in an appalling position.
		
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If you don't think you are being unreasonable then why is part of your thread entitled 'Am I being unreasonable'? Did you come here for reassurance that you have been doing the right things or do you have doubts about your actions?


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## Claire-R (24 September 2014)

lurcherlu said:



			Better than any drama this...... ( fetches the popcorn )
		
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My thought exactly!!


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

lurcherlu said:



			Better than any drama this...... ( fetches the popcorn )
		
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Claire-R said:



			My thought exactly!!
		
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Haha, glad to amuse... Well ladies... Im flouncing out now... Either of you going to the yard?  Im on my way now, may be a little late as i thought id stop at the council offices to insist that all cats are placed under a protection order and cars are stopped from driving down my road...


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## Claire-R (24 September 2014)

Lol I shall be up with boyo about 5ish again


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

Cool, see you then

*exits stage right! at a flounce*


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## Fides (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Actually not entirely, owners can be fined up to £1000 for an incident where a dog attacks a pet, and certain measures (as previously discussed are put in place) it's that simple, it's the law and your opinion on it doesn't make it less so.

Just to clarify that point (see this link for control orders that can be issued by the cohuncil)
https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/dog-control-orders

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You will find that cats are exempt from this. For the same reason you aren't obliged to stop if  you hit one, the way you are with a dog/sheep/cow/horse - although morally most reasonable people would...

Initially I would have said you weren't being unreasonable, but now I think you have got a bit over the top about it and I think, yes you are now being unreasonable...


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## Alec Swan (24 September 2014)

Fides said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..  now I think you have got a bit over the top about it and I think, yes you are now being unreasonable...
		
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In the defence of the OP,  when goaded,  an ever more strident approach is the likely course.  Q_b was hacked off and frightened for a much loved cat.  A powerful and determined greyhound dog,  quite naturally attempted to kill the cat.  He made a hash of it,  thankfully,  and Q_b now has her rather ruffled pussy restored to what appears to be good health,  and all is well, except for the ongoing discussion!! 

I would also say that Q_b has behaved I believe,  in an exemplary fashion by attempting to assist the dog owner (probably throughout gritted teeth), in their possibly preferred management of a large and powerful dog.  Q_b has also tackled the re-homing lot and perhaps they too will learn a lesson,  though I have my doubts!

I'd say,   Queenbee,  that you have every reason to stand up and take a bow!!

Alec.


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## bonny (24 September 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			In the defence of the OP,  when goaded,  an ever more strident approach is the likely course.  Q_b was hacked off and frightened for a much loved cat.  A powerful and determined greyhound dog,  quite naturally attempted to kill the cat.  He made a hash of it,  thankfully,  and Q_b now has her rather ruffled pussy restored to what appears to be good health,  and all is well, except for the ongoing discussion!! 

I would also say that Q_b has behaved I believe,  in an exemplary fashion by attempting to assist the dog owner (probably throughout gritted teeth), in their possibly preferred management of a large and powerful dog.  Q_b has also tackled the re-homing lot and perhaps they too will learn a lesson,  though I have my doubts!

I'd say,   Queenbee,  that you have every reason to stand up and take a bow!!

Alec.
		
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I was trying not to comment again but what a load of claptrap !! That is all.


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## Moomin1 (24 September 2014)

bonny said:



			I was trying not to comment again but what a load of claptrap !! That is all.
		
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In what way was that clap trap?


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## {97702} (24 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			I'm assuming this is speculation.
		
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Ah yes - assumptions, the mother of all **** ups.....


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## MerrySherryRider (24 September 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			I would also say that Q_b has behaved I believe,  in an exemplary fashion by attempting to assist the dog owner (probably throughout gritted teeth), in their possibly preferred management of a large and powerful dog.  Q_b has also tackled the re-homing lot and perhaps they too will learn a lesson,  though I have my doubts!

I'd say,   Queenbee,  that you have every reason to stand up and take a bow!!

Alec.
		
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Oh Alec, I just spat my wine all over the keyboard !  There's 'assisting' and assisting.


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## Fides (24 September 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Oh Alec, I just spat my wine all over the keyboard !  There's 'assisting' and assisting.
		
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It was the 'rather ruffled pussy restored' that made me spit mine


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## Alec Swan (24 September 2014)

Fides said:



			It was the 'rather ruffled pussy restored' that made me spit mine 

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Which was the intention and hoping that others may smile.  Not entirely wasted,  I see! 

Alec.


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## Fides (24 September 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			Which was the intention and hoping that others may smile.  Not entirely wasted,  I see! 

Alec.
		
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Never wasted with my dirty mind


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## {97702} (24 September 2014)

Fides said:



			It was the 'rather ruffled pussy restored' that made me spit mine 

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Yep there are certain forum users you can always rely on for a bit of sleaze.....


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## Fides (24 September 2014)

Lévrier;12629307 said:
			
		


			Yep there are certain forum users you can always rely on for a bit of sleaze.....
		
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And some you can rely on to put a downer on a bit of fun


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## {97702} (24 September 2014)

Fides said:



			And some you can rely on to put a downer on a bit of fun 

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Aye thats me


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## lastchancer (24 September 2014)

zigzag said:



			Sorry but if you allow your cats to roam , you have to put up with the consequences.  As sadly I did.
		
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The OP's cat was on a neighbors which it was welcome on. Our cat was on HER OWN GARDEN. 
QB has shown compassion for an old lady who has been stitched up with an unsuitable animal by a divvy bleeding hearts rescue that should know better.
I hope your cat makes a good recovery QB.


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## MerrySherryRider (24 September 2014)

lastchancer said:



			The OP's cat was on a neighbors which it was welcome on. Our cat was on HER OWN GARDEN. 
QB has shown compassion for an old lady who has been stitched up with an unsuitable animal by a divvy bleeding hearts rescue that should know better.
I hope your cat makes a good recovery QB.
		
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Interesting way of looking at it. 
Are all animal charities divvy bleeding hearts or just the one's you have personal experience of ? I'm assuming you do know this particular charity ? 
How did she show compassion to the old lady exactly ?


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## lastchancer (24 September 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Interesting way of looking at it. 
Are all animal charities divvy bleeding hearts or just the one's you have personal experience of ? I'm assuming you do know this particular charity ? 
How did she show compassion to the old lady exactly ?
		
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I don't need to know this particular charity - anyone who rehomes a fit strapping grey hound with a frail 80yo lady is a divvy. And no I don't think all animal charitys are bleeding heart idiots but a lot certainly could do with a more realistic approach.

Read QB's posts again, she isn't the one who put a powerful dog with a vulnerable old lady, but shes the one paying the price and yet has been big enough to try and help the old girl out. I really feel for this old lady, she probably feels terrible about the situation.

Do you think the charity made an error? 
Do you think they carried out an adequate assessment of risk prior to the re-homing?  
Do you think they are doing any justice to their cause with such irresponsible decisions?    
Do you think people running rescues should legally have to hold relevant qualifications to make sure they actually understand the animals they are dealing with, the competency of potential owners, and the consequences that could happen should things go wrong?


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## Leo Walker (25 September 2014)

I just wanted to add that I have a working bred whippet, probably has a dash of something else in there, hes bred from a long line of working bred dogs. His instinct is to chase anything that runs. Hes lure raced a fair amount and is pretty good at it  Hes also a terrible working dog! He catches rabbits, rolls them, lets them go and chases them again. He has done the same with the only hare he ever caught. Hes never caught a deer depsite trying very hard :lol: He will spend hours retrieving a ball, and loves to retrieve from water. Hes grown up with cats and lives with one now. He runs for the joy of running, not killing. But as I said pages ago I think, I'd be worried if a cat leapt up in front of him off lead. Hes not muzzled, I think he would do more damage with one on than without. Hes also incredibly strong, hes a little ball of muscle. I doubt a frail 80yr old would hold him on the lead if he really wanted to go, although he is very well behaved and doesnt go on the lead.


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## Alec Swan (25 September 2014)

FrankieCob said:



			I just wanted to add that I have a working bred whippet, &#8230;&#8230;... Hes grown up with cats and lives with one now. He runs for the joy of running, not killing. But as I said pages ago I think, I'd be worried if a cat leapt up in front of him off lead. &#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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Interesting.  40+ years ago I lived in a huge farmhouse and we had an equally huge kitchen (think half an acre!),  and we had 5 pure-bred racing/coursing dogs which lived en-famille.  These 5 dogs also shared the kitchen (and their beds on occasion) with two cats,  a mother and daughter from memory.  One morning whilst giving the dogs their morning run in the paddock behind the house,  and when the dogs were loose,  one of the cats jumped up and galloped for the hedge.  She never made it,  two of the dogs spotted her,  and before I could get to them they'd killed her.  It happened.

Those greyhounds which live as couch potatoes,  share their beds with a cat,  and don't even bother to bark when a visitor knocks at the door,  are generally totally different creatures when free.  Barring the accidents,  for me that's part of the attraction!

Alec.


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## EmmaB (29 September 2014)

If a greyhound is under control on the lead then why does it need a muzzle...? Obviously in this case it wasn't under control and I agree that it was ridiculous to have given such a strong dog to an old woman! Surely there must have been better options for her when she was deciding on which dog to have? Feel sorry for her, the dog and your poor cat, thank god it managed to get away!


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## planete (30 September 2014)

It has happened before that a greyhound on a lead has dived into a bush by the side of the path he was being walked on and grabbed a cat hiding there and killed it.  Or he has suddenly jerked the lead out of his walker's hand and gone after a cat.

At the last dog training session I attended, we were told not to put our hands through the loop of dog leads as we could get injured if a dog lunged!  I never went back and I always put my hand through the leads and hold the lead itself in a closed fist.  I would rather break an arm than let one of my dogs get killed under a car.


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