# Difference between ridden hack & riding horse showing classes?



## Super_starz (15 May 2014)

Hi, i wonder if someone could help? what's the difference between the two and what is the correct turnout for horse and rider? Thank you


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## soulfull (15 May 2014)

Hacks are very fine and elegant. Actually not many horse around like a true hack 

I'm not sure about hack classes but riding horse i used to wear tweed jacket cream jods and shirt and tie. Coloured brow band for horse


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## Kat (15 May 2014)

Hacks are a bit finer than riding horses. Normally you wear tweed on a riding horse and a navy jacket on hacks. Otherwise the classes and turnout are virtually the same.


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## dotty1 (15 May 2014)

I think hacks are more lightweight and dainty, more like big show ponies and riding horses are more workmanlike but elegant. As for turnout, more bling on hacks, rider turnout very similar, maybe a tweed for riding horse?.


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## Super_starz (15 May 2014)

great thank you, she's probably more of a riding horse. Will snaffle be ok? I assume thick Caveson noseband, fancy browband, & no martingale or boots? .......sorry, showjumper here, no clue!!


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## soulfull (15 May 2014)

Snaffle/double or Pelham.  Chose what nose band suits her best.  
Yep no boots, martingale etc.   fancy brow band 

The most important rule is enjoy it


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## Doormouse (15 May 2014)

In years gone by the small hack was the horse used by a gentleman to get to the meet for hunting. His hunter was hacked on steadily by the the groom and the man rode the small hack cross country to arrive at the meet and get on his hunter for the day. Therefore the small hack was strong and sturdy but moved very well so he was comfortable. His manners had to be excellent to open gates and carry the gentleman easily.  The large hack was the Park Hack that a gentleman would ride in the park alongside a lady's carriage, the large hack was very beautiful to look at and again had immaculate manners. It also needed to be able to 'hack' canter at the speed of a carriage.

Riding horses are a later invention by showing for horses that are neither a hack nor a hunter! They are bigger moving and longer striding than the hack, their manners must be good but need not be as perfect as the hack. A riding horse is ridden in tweed with a pretty browband and correctly should be shown in a pelham or double bridle.

Good luck and have fun.


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## criso (15 May 2014)

I thought there were also height restrictions with small hacks up to  154 cm and large hacks up to 160cm


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## khalswitz (15 May 2014)

Doormouse said:



			In years gone by the small hack was the horse used by a gentleman to get to the meet for hunting. His hunter was hacked on steadily by the the groom and the man rode the small hack cross country to arrive at the meet and get on his hunter for the day. Therefore the small hack was strong and sturdy but moved very well so he was comfortable. His manners had to be excellent to open gates and carry the gentleman easily.  The large hack was the Park Hack that a gentleman would ride in the park alongside a lady's carriage, the large hack was very beautiful to look at and again had immaculate manners. It also needed to be able to 'hack' canter at the speed of a carriage.

Riding horses are a later invention by showing for horses that are neither a hack nor a hunter! They are bigger moving and longer striding than the hack, their manners must be good but need not be as perfect as the hack. A riding horse is ridden in tweed with a pretty browband and correctly should be shown in a pelham or double bridle.

Good luck and have fun.
		
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Really? Very interesting. I had thought the small hack was a ladies' ride, hence the impeccable manners - but very interesting pice of history


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## Doormouse (15 May 2014)

khalswitz said:



			Really? Very interesting. I had thought the small hack was a ladies' ride, hence the impeccable manners - but very interesting pice of history 

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I thought that until a very knowledgeable hack person explained it to me. The impeccable manners obviously came into play for opening and shutting gates and also the ability to hack canter, but faster than the park hack, so as not to give the gentleman a hard time before he had a day hunting. I believe that some ladies also rode to the meet on small hacks as well though in later years but obviously side saddle. It is the reason that the true small hack is so very hard to find because they were small horses, not big ponies and had to be very strong to carry a gentleman in full hunting kit. The average small hack you see today would never have the strength to carry that weight and are not really true to type any longer. TB's are the ideal small hack because as the saying goes 'an ounce of blood is worth an inch of bone'.

I have always wanted to run 2 hack classes where the small hacks (known as covert hack) would be required to open a gate and pop a log and the park hack would have to canter beside a carriage!

Link below backs up my info by the way!

http://www.horse-training-care.com/showhack.html


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## khalswitz (15 May 2014)

Doormouse said:



			I thought that until a very knowledgeable hack person explained it to me. The impeccable manners obviously came into play for opening and shutting gates and also the ability to hack canter, but faster than the park hack, so as not to give the gentleman a hard time before he had a day hunting. I believe that some ladies also rode to the meet on small hacks as well though in later years but obviously side saddle. It is the reason that the true small hack is so very hard to find because they were small horses, not big ponies and had to be very strong to carry a gentleman in full hunting kit. The average small hack you see today would never have the strength to carry that weight and are not really true to type any longer. TB's are the ideal small hack because as the saying goes 'an ounce of blood is worth an inch of bone'.

I have always wanted to run 2 hack classes where the small hacks (known as covert hack) would be required to open a gate and pop a log and the park hack would have to canter beside a carriage!

Link below backs up my info by the way!

http://www.horse-training-care.com/showhack.html

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I wasn't doubting you - I just had never heard it before!! It makes a lot of sense - although sad not to see the true-to-type small hacks anymore. Thanks for the very interesting background!


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## Doormouse (15 May 2014)

khalswitz said:



			I wasn't doubting you - I just had never heard it before!! It makes a lot of sense - although sad not to see the true-to-type small hacks anymore. Thanks for the very interesting background!
		
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It is very sad not to see the true small hack any longer. Sadly many people decide to show a 14.2hh show pony that is slightly over height as a small hack which is very much not the correct type. A sprint bred TB is the ideal, strong and butty with lovely movement but they are very hard to produce and you need to be very experienced to produce them correctly. They have to have lots of presence and sparkle but must never put a foot out of line, not easy at all!!!


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## humblepie (15 May 2014)

Indeed my ex racehorse retrained to a large hack and was the epitome of the old style hack.  Would have liked your suggestion re cantering alongside a carriage - can recall at the Royal Show a few years back, walking him alongside a pony and trap having a long conversation with the lady driving it - would have been more than happy to try to replicate it at canter!   Even now retired in the field he is just so elegant and when ever he is tied up for anything goes automatically into show horse stance.

Echo the poster above about height - max 15.3/160 cms for any hack.


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## joulsey (15 May 2014)

Doormouse said:



			In years gone by the small hack was the horse used by a gentleman to get to the meet for hunting. His hunter was hacked on steadily by the the groom and the man rode the small hack cross country to arrive at the meet and get on his hunter for the day. Therefore the small hack was strong and sturdy but moved very well so he was comfortable. His manners had to be excellent to open gates and carry the gentleman easily.  The large hack was the Park Hack that a gentleman would ride in the park alongside a lady's carriage, the large hack was very beautiful to look at and again had immaculate manners. It also needed to be able to 'hack' canter at the speed of a carriage.

Riding horses are a later invention by showing for horses that are neither a hack nor a hunter! They are bigger moving and longer striding than the hack, their manners must be good but need not be as perfect as the hack. A riding horse is ridden in tweed with a pretty browband and correctly should be shown in a pelham or double bridle.

Good luck and have fun.
		
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How interesting!

This thread caught my eye as I am going to the first show that a new centre is having. I put a post up earlier on in the week asking how to turn my horse out, riding horse or hunter, expecting the schedule to have at least one or both of these classes, or even open showing, but they have neither. Instead they have Small and Large Hack. Its rare to see these classes as such local level, well around here anyway at our local riding clubs. And its a qualifier for Equifest. But I think the person who is trying to get this new centre up and running has a few 'hack' type horses so I think she has put them there for her self to qualify


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## wench (15 May 2014)

In my limited showing experience, I have always thought that hack = fine refined horse, often with a dash of arab in it.

I wouldnt have described either of my flat-bred TB's as hacks, one was god knows what, the other was more of a ridden hunter type, but far too small!


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## mle22 (15 May 2014)

There don't seem to be any hack classes in Ireland anymore and we currently have a horse that imo would fit the bill perfectly, but we have to go in riding horse classes, which he is a bit fine for.


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## conniegirl (16 May 2014)

Wench there are small hunter classes! For horses under 15.2


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## cavalo branco (16 May 2014)

An interesting and informative post, thank you! There is always something new to learn on this forum!


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## humblepie (16 May 2014)

I wish I could find a book I have where Count Robert Orssich describes what a show hack should be - it is somewhere in the house.  He was a Hungarian Count who had a famous hack Liberty Light and the article is all about the lightness in hand and elegance needed for a hack.  The hack championship at Windsor is presented in his name.


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## Cortez (16 May 2014)

Oh, I do miss proper hacks, small and large! Haven't seen one for years and years. There used to be a whole "school" of showing them; when was the last time anyone showed a correct hack canter, or rode one handed with the showing cane "tipped" on the thigh? And there was a special s-shaped weymouth bit that was for hacks, and box spurs, long trousers with a red stripe (for gentlemen, of course), tall silk hats, ah, so beautiful..........


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## Meowy Catkin (16 May 2014)

That sounds fab Cortez - they should bring it all back.


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## Cortez (16 May 2014)

I fear the old hack producers are no more; Count Robert Orssich was the epitome of an elegant, classical rider. He trained at the Spanish Riding School before WWII, I doubt that we will see his like again. It wasn't dressage, it was something else entirely; more like Alta Escuela riding in Spain? And the ultimate hack was either a small TB or an extremely elegant Anglo Arab, of types that are not bred today, sadly.


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## minesadouble (16 May 2014)

Cortez said:



			Oh, I do miss proper hacks, small and large! Haven't seen one for years and years. There used to be a whole "school" of showing them; when was the last time anyone showed a correct hack canter, or rode one handed with the showing cane "tipped" on the thigh? And there was a special s-shaped weymouth bit that was for hacks, and box spurs, long trousers with a red stripe (for gentlemen, of course), tall silk hats, ah, so beautiful..........
		
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Take a look at Simon Charlesworth and Pearly King, HOYS champion 2012 - epitomises the above, and Simon is a true showman of the old school.


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