# Concerns over a SW based rescue ?



## Calmwater (24 July 2014)

We have had a couple of ponies from a SW based pony rescue for just over a year, the place was recommended by a friend. We are fairly experienced horse owners and so agreed to take a couple on. In the year that we have had them it has become evident that this rescue regularly allow inexperienced loanees take on feral ponies on what they call " forever home"  circumstances. Some of these ponies are left in unsuitable surroundings, one lived in a garden in a shed for months as the loaner couldn't get close to the pony to put a head collar on which was required to have it castrated. Such is our concern over the ethics that we are returning the ponies we have to the rescue as we feel uncomfortable in continuing our association with them


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## Mrs. Jingle (24 July 2014)

Calmwater said:



			We have had a couple of ponies from a SW based pony rescue for just over a year......... . Such is our concern over the ethics that we are returning the ponies we have to the rescue as we feel uncomfortable in continuing our association with them
		
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Oh please - your concern about the rescue is one thing - but to then send back two ponies you have had for a year to suffer the same fate as the ones you complain about? That really is taking the moral high ground too far IMO. Your concern for animal welfare is obviously not that great really is it?


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## Calmwater (24 July 2014)

Ignorance is no excuse for rudeness ! I didn't ask for any advice on the returning of the ponies, that decision is based on the long term welfare of ALL the ponies and the continued placement of others. The decision to return them has taken months of conscience wrangling and should there be any other option we would have taken them. If it becomes obvious that any concern you raise is ignored then what other routes can you take. I can not sit back and do nothing. This rescue appears on this forum time and time again with the same reiterated concerns a fact that I fully admit we should have investigated before we took them on but as they came recommend by another respectable individual we did not it has only become evident in the time since. The ponies we have remain the rescues as the contract that we have is only a Loan agreement, we would have loved to have made the ponies ours and continued to keep them after all we have put a year looking after and caring for these ponies who came to us wild and are now handled and starting their education but the rescue is unwilling to allow that even under the proviso we would not sell/pass them on.


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## _GG_ (24 July 2014)

Calmwater said:



			Ignorance is no excuse for rudeness ! I didn't ask for any advice on the returning of the ponies, that decision is based on the long term welfare of ALL the ponies and the continued placement of others. The decision to return them has taken months of conscience wrangling and should there be any other option we would have taken them. If it becomes obvious that any concern you raise is ignored then what other routes can you take. I can not sit back and do nothing. This rescue appears on this forum time and time again with the same reiterated concerns a fact that I fully admit we should have investigated before we took them on but as they came recommend by another respectable individual we did not it has only become evident in the time since. The ponies we have remain the rescues as the contract that we have is only a Loan agreement, we would have loved to have made the ponies ours and continued to keep them after all we have put a year looking after and caring for these ponies who came to us wild and are now handled and starting their education but the rescue is unwilling to allow that even under the proviso we would not sell/pass them on.
		
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Personally, I would keep the ponies for the time being, just to keep them where I knew they were safe.

Now...do this rescue take donations? If they do, contact the Charity Commission to make your complaint and CC the complaint to BHS Welfare and World Horse Welfare. Don't exaggerate, just lay out your concerns and play it by ear.

If there is a chance that they will cease to be in the future, what will happen to the ponies then? If you would like to have them permanently, hold on to them for now as that might happen. If not, well, as you say, that's your call. All I can see is that you know they are safe at the moment, but you know that there's a chance they won't be if you send them back. Not trying to judge or have a go, I am really not...I'm just saying that sending them back won't make a jot of difference to the rescue centre, but could mean a big difference to the lives of the ponies. The only way you'll resolve the issues at the rescue will be reporting them.


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## Calmwater (24 July 2014)

They are not registered Charity but instead a Non Profit Organisation, you make a donation which is deemed to be covering passport and administration costs. Thank you for your considered response and I can fully see that keeping them is the best option at making sure they are safe but the rescue insist on regular update via a social media site and we have intimated that we are unhappy to continue doing so due to the conflict of interest. The likely hood is that the rescue will simply decide to remove the ponies from our care as for them it seems to be a control issue


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## _GG_ (24 July 2014)

Calmwater said:



			They are not registered Charity but instead a Non Profit Organisation, you make a donation which is deemed to be covering passport and administration costs. Thank you for your considered response and I can fully see that keeping them is the best option at making sure they are safe but the rescue insist on regular update via a social media site and we have intimated that we are unhappy to continue doing so due to the conflict of interest. The likely hood is that the rescue will simply decide to remove the ponies from our care as for them it seems to be a control issue
		
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If they remove them, that's down to them. If they accept more than £5000 a year then they are required by law to register with the Charity Commission. Get in touch with them and start a complaint, they will look into it. Call BHS Welfare and WHW and discuss with them as they will be able to advise you on anything you can do to help resolve this. 

I would also, if I were you, pop down to your local police station when you have a spare 10 minutes and speak to them about it. I would be asking how the law would stand if I were to refuse to hand over the ponies in the fear that they would not be properly cared for. We are duty bound in this country to prevent cruelty to animals, not just to report it when it happens. 

I believe and have used this myself, that under the section "is protected from and treated for, illness and injury". I would advise you to get advice before you do that, but if it was me...that is the law in England and Wales and it would be for the charity to prove your suspicions wrong. I would not hand the ponies over. I would let them call the police/take me to court...it would save me the money and start the ball rolling on then being investigated, so a win win for me.

https://www.gov.uk/caring-for-pets

You have much more power than you think you do. If you need any advice, any time, just ask. I will PM you my mobile number and you call me if they turn up or email or do something and you need advice. I don't care what time...horses and ponies need protecting from those who won't put their welfare first. 

xx


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## ester (24 July 2014)

dartmoor hill ponies or am I on the wrong track? Just wondering where there might be ferals... 

What was the rescues response to the pony in a shed situation/are they open to suggestions to how it might be run better or not, ie only rehome headcollared and gelded animals like other rescues would?- clearly the best they can do to secure such ponies future is to put as much training into them as they can before they go off to rehome. I do at least think it a good thing that they wouldn't allow you to completely take on the ponies outside of the loan scheme.


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## _GG_ (24 July 2014)

ester said:



			dartmoor hill ponies or am I on the wrong track? Just wondering where there might be ferals... 

What was the rescues response to the pony in a shed situation/are they open to suggestions to how it might be run better or not, ie only rehome headcollared and gelded animals like other rescues would?- clearly the best they can do to secure such ponies future is to put as much training into them as they can before they go off to rehome. I do at least think it a good thing that they wouldn't allow you to completely take on the ponies outside of the loan scheme.
		
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Yes, I'd be extremely angry at any rescue/charity/organisation like this allowing a transfer of ownership. 

It needs reporting so that it can be investigated independently as unless we are seeing things with our own eyes, we only have the words of others to go by and people can easily exaggerate, get the wrong end of the stick etc. To some people, a pony in a shed could in reality be a laminitic pony shut into a single field shelter.


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## Calmwater (24 July 2014)

We recognise that allowing unsolicited transfers would be detrimental in some circumstances but then again so is the rescue for taking on indiscriminate amounts of ponies that they then can not rehome and/or allow inexperienced loanees to take on. We have over 40 years of horse ownership and ours horses stay with us for life 

It has and will continue to be reported to the various agency the concerns for these ponies and we are entirely at fault for taking them without doing more background checks. 

The pony in the shed was a feral foal that having been removed from the moors was the kept in a garden with a shed for a stable with no equine company for nearly 2 months.


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## ester (24 July 2014)

Unless something were to happen to you, sorry I still think that is a good stance although it is a shame you are returning them.

As I said do the rescue think these situations are ok? Have they been questioned/had any comment?


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## Calmwater (24 July 2014)

Yes we have tried to question/ask but they become defensive and churlish in their actions. In fact others too have tried but have been met by the same response so we are not the only ones. They condone ponies being stabled for weeks on end with no turnout and yet when I photographed my small 5 year old son innocently sat on one of the cob ponies for the duration of taking a photo,  she is 2, we were vilified and an onslaught of dictatorial posts about ponies shouldn't be sat on until they are 3 were posted. Closely followed by a video of a 3 year old small pony that was being cantered around by a large rider but this was deemed ok as he had passed that magic milestone when in essence the pony in question may not be 3 until later in the season. 

We are just disappointed that it has come to this and it has been heart wrenching, I have never felt the need to post on a forum before but morality situation makes us feel quite helpless


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## Fides (24 July 2014)

I am starting to see why perhaps they have issues with you - to put a 5yo on 2yo RESCUE pony is just awful.


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## Moomin1 (24 July 2014)

Fides said:



			I am starting to see why perhaps they have issues with you - to put a 5yo on 2yo RESCUE pony is just awful.
		
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It would depend on the 'rescue' pony in question, the nature of the child sat on it, and the duration.  OP says the child was on it momentarily for a photo. If it's a laid back pony, the child is quiet and well behaved, and it's only for a moment, I don't really see a huge issue tbh.


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## Calmwater (24 July 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			It would depend on the 'rescue' pony in question, the nature of the child sat on it, and the duration.  OP says the child was on it momentarily for a photo. If it's a laid back pony, the child is quiet and well behaved, and it's only for a moment, I don't really see a huge issue tbh.
		
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Thank you Moomin1  ( brill name by the way I often think of button moon ! ) 
My son is very quiet as he is autistic and the pony in question is exceptionally quiet, he sat on her for perhaps 10 seconds with 3 people in holding him and the pony. She knows he is different and will seek him out to nudge and interact with him. 

Having posted for the first time ever on here I am just appalled at some of the negative and unpleasant people that are on here, do you really have nothing more useful to do with your time that post antagonistic comments. I sincerely hope anyone who ever truly requires advice would be willing to accept more vilification than advice, what a very sad situation


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## Mrs. Jingle (24 July 2014)

"Such is our concern over the ethics that we are returning the ponies we have to the rescue as we feel uncomfortable in continuing our association with them." ............

But you clearly state in your first post the above -nothing at all about being forced by the rescue to return them - you say that you have made the decision to return them because of your concern at their ethics and not wanting to be associated with them, therefor they are getting the ponies back? 

I am not being rude at all, if you didn't expect comment why did you post about it - of course it isn't fair on the ponies to send them back to the fate you yourself describe, because you want to make an ethical point to these people? Do you think that will make one jot of difference to them if they are as unethical as you say? Of course it won't, but it will make a huge difference to those poor ponies if what you say is true.

I actually think there may be more to this than meets the eye - have the rescue questioned anything else about how you keep the ponies apart from the child being allowed to 'sit' one of them? On the one hand they are supposedly dreadful and don't take due care with the homes these ponies go to. But on the other they do seem to keep an eye on their welfare, hence their comments to you about allowing one of the 2 year olds to be ridden, despite the fact it was only a brief moment in time, they were on the ball about the ponies welfare in that instance were they not? And refuse to hand them over permanently to just anyone who wants to keep them?

If it is rude to question your accusations about the rescue and point out that perhaps you aren't really too bothered about the fate of the ponies that you claim to be very upset about, but you are quite happy to make a point at the expense of their long term welfare - then yes, I am damn rude.


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## _GG_ (24 July 2014)

Did you get my PM Calmwater?


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