# how big is too big



## katwin (13 January 2012)

I have recently found out that someone who I know weighs about 20 stone. She has a 15hh full irish draught. I believe she is too heavy for it. Should I drop suttle hints or leave it be?


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## flying solo (13 January 2012)

Depends on how heavy the horse is IMHO. I weigh 9.5st after 3 months on steroids and my pony is only 13.3hh welsh a x cob and no way am I too heavy for him. I'm usually only 8st ish. 

Is she genuinely too big, have you seen her riding so you can see for yourself?


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## Chellebean (13 January 2012)

Before knowing her weight did you think she was to heavy?


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## katwin (13 January 2012)

i have seen her ride when she was around 17 stone and she rode quite heavy in the saddle. surely the extra weight will not be good for the horse's back.


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## PoppyAnderson (13 January 2012)

In my book, under any circumstances, 20 stone is too heavy to sit on a horses back.


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## WelshGal (13 January 2012)

alot of people have different ideas about this. i am 11 stone and the heaviest ive been is 13 and i ride a 12.2hh welsh pony. different breeds can handle different weights; also it depends on the horses age, if its a youngster and not fully grown it should not have anything too heavy on its back. You need to weigh up both sides before saying anything.


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## shadowboy (13 January 2012)

21 stone (once you consider tack) is in my opinion a bit too heavy to be comfortable for a horse to carry


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## jhoward (13 January 2012)

katwin said:



			I have recently found out that someone who I know weighs about 20 stone. She has a 15hh full irish draught. I believe she is too heavy for it. Should I drop suttle hints or leave it be?
		
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i think. 

that


you should suggest shes gets a shetland. they are reknown for weight carrying


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## shadowboy (13 January 2012)

By the way 21 stone is 133kg and guessing her 15 weighs in at 600kg  she's over the 20% weight calculation


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## ridefast (13 January 2012)

jhoward said:



			i think. 

that


you should suggest shes gets a shetland. they are reknown for weight carrying
		
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LIKE


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## katwin (13 January 2012)

the horse is 9yrs old and I believe she is planning to put it in foal. I also believe 20stone is too heavy for the horse. I stopped riding my cob when noticed I'd piled a few stones on. I didn't get back on hiim until I got to a weight I knew he could carry happily.


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## flying solo (13 January 2012)

I guess least if she puts it in coal it will save you saying anything and possibly falling-out?


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## JennBags (13 January 2012)

Aaah if she puts it in foal, she can ride the foaly too 

Is it a mare or a gelding?


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## katwin (13 January 2012)

shadowboy said:



			By the way 21 stone is 133kg and guessing her 15 weighs in at 600kg  she's over the 20% weight calculation
		
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i've learnt something new. I really didnt know there was a calculation for knowing how heavy you can be to ride


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## benson21 (13 January 2012)

trit trot, clippy clop........


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## katwin (13 January 2012)

JennBags said:



			Aaah if she puts it in foal, she can ride the foaly too 

Is it a mare or a gelding?
		
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its a mare. very lovely and will try her hardest to please


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## Camel (13 January 2012)

Can you get 15hh Irish Draughts?


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## jhoward (13 January 2012)

katwin said:



			its a mare. very lovely and will try her hardest to please
		
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ah well on the plus side, mare gets in foal, fat heiffer breaks mare, mare gets shot. foal lives on... 


its like the food chain really isnt it.. substained, and each beast has a use and then is disposed of.


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## QueenOfCadence (13 January 2012)

IMHO FAR to heavy, regardless if the horse is a weight carrier or not! I weight about 7 stone (49kgs) and I ride a 14.2hh Welsh Cob x TB and I've worried about being too heavy for him! Maybe drop subtle hints, it CAN'T be good for her horse!

My boy looks like this and I've worried about being too big for him (though I'm a worry wart so it's nothing unusual):







Maybe tell her you're worrying about getting too heavy for your horse because a vet told you that you shouldn't weigh more than 20% of your horse's weight? That way she gets the message but you don't have to tell her she's too heavy for the horse


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## Queenbee (13 January 2012)

katwin said:



			the horse is 9yrs old and I believe she is planning to put it in foal. I also believe 20stone is too heavy for the horse. I stopped riding my cob when noticed I'd piled a few stones on. I didn't get back on hiim until I got to a weight I knew he could carry happily.
		
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I'm sorry, I know what we are thinking *clip clop* and all that, but this made me LOL:

How do you just noticed you'd piled on 'a few stone' I mean, how do you only notice 3 stone down the line


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## shadowboy (13 January 2012)

Katwin its not a calculation for weight to ride its supposed to be used to work out the maximum 'safe' weight a horse is able to carry based on its weight. Research has found that horses can carry 20% of their body weight without undue effects on the body and bones, muscles tendons etc


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## FionaM12 (13 January 2012)

katwin said:



			I stopped riding my cob when noticed I'd piled a few stones on.
		
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 You only noticed after a few stones? 

I notice weight gain as soon as my jeans don't zip up so well.


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## Shantara (13 January 2012)

FionaM12 said:



 You only noticed after a few stones? 

I notice weight gain as soon as my jeans don't zip up so well. 

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I actually didn't notice 2 stone  I was 7, then went up to 9 in a very short amount of time, after getting the contraceptive injection. I only noticed after I leant forwards and couldn't reach the remote, which I usually can!


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## Capriole (13 January 2012)

Oedemitous Camel said:



			Can you get 15hh Irish Draughts?
		
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yes. this ones a little over but there are them out there 

http://www.swiftsgreenstud.co.uk/stallion.htm


Gosh, I notice Ive put weight on even before the zipper gets sticky, when I start feeling like a sausage in my jeans.

Either speak to her or leave it, dont bother with the subtle hints, people often dont get them anyway.


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## Chellebean (13 January 2012)

Oh i wondered why my jeans were falling down... Does that mean I've lost some weight?


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## FionaM12 (13 January 2012)

Chellebean said:



			Oh i wondered why my jeans were falling down... Does that mean I've lost some weight?
		
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No you're wearing someone else's jeans.


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## Persephone (13 January 2012)

Chellebean said:



			Oh i wondered why my jeans were falling down... Does that mean I've lost some weight?
		
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Nah, it just means you have managed to permanently stretch them


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## JennBags (13 January 2012)

I'm wondering if the op is really sure that the horse is a mare, as I heard that geldings who are put in foal can carry four times as much weight as a shire


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## Fantasy_World (13 January 2012)

jhoward said:



			i think. 

that


you should suggest shes gets a shetland. they are reknown for weight carrying
		
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lol


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## numptynoelle (13 January 2012)

JennBags said:



			I'm wondering if the op is really sure that the horse is a mare, as I heard that geldings who are put in foal can carry four times as much weight as a shire 

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This is correct - especially cob geldings who can still exceed 45mph whilst in foal


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## FionaM12 (13 January 2012)

flying solo said:



			I guess least if she puts it in coal it will save you saying anything and possibly falling-out?
		
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With current rising fuel prices putting in coal sounds expensive.


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## Fantasy_World (13 January 2012)

FWIW I rode when around 19/20 stone ooh dear!
Not that weight now though and haven't been for over 9 years


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## felixlight (13 January 2012)

jhoward said:



			i think. 

that


you should suggest shes gets a shetland. they are reknown for weight carrying
		
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Yes and that way she can relieve some of the weight by putting her feet down.


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## jhoward (13 January 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			With current rising fuel prices putting in coal sounds expensive.
		
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oil i hear is the way to go


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## jhoward (13 January 2012)

felixlight said:



			Yes and that way she can relieve some of the weight by putting her feet down.
		
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oh yes and use roller skates...


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## JennBags (13 January 2012)

No no no jh. Nuclear power


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## FionaM12 (13 January 2012)

Wind power? If I could harness Mollie's I'd be on a winner.


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## Arizahn (13 January 2012)

Is this the new Papa Frita thread? 

Seriously, I do not believe ANYONE who is seven stone and worried they are too heavy for a 14.2 welsh cob cross thoroughbred.

I am eleven and a half stone, and my 14.3 Arab is perfectly happy with me on her back. If she wasn't, she would soon let me know! By bucking me off. Or planting. Or not letting me mount up in the first place.

Reckon twenty one stone is pushing it though...I think for a 15hh the most would be around sixteen stone, including tack. I suppose it may depend on the horse's build and the rider's ability level too.

The best solution would be to surprise her with a paid for vet and physiotherapist/back person check for her mare - tell her you are helping make sure the horse is fit and healthy before she goes to all the expense of trying to breed from it 

Let the paid professionals advise her as to whether the mare is able to carry her. 

If she is too heavy, and has a reason for being that size - some medication is horrible - then why not help her get into showing in hand, or driving?


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## jhoward (13 January 2012)

Arizahn said:



			Is this the new Papa Frita thread? 

Seriously, I do not believe ANYONE who is seven stone and worried they are too heavy for a 14.2 welsh cob cross thoroughbred.

I am eleven and a half stone, and my 14.3 Arab is perfectly happy with me on her back. If she wasn't, she would soon let me know! By bucking me off. Or planting. Or not letting me mount up in the first place.

Reckon twenty one stone is pushing it though...I think for a 15hh the most would be around sixteen stone, including tack. I suppose it may depend on the horse's build and the rider's ability level too.

The best solution would be to surprise her with a paid for vet and physiotherapist/back person check for her mare - tell her you are helping make sure the horse is fit and healthy before she goes to all the expense of trying to breed from it 

Let the paid professionals advise her as to whether the mare is able to carry her. 

If she is too heavy, and has a reason for being that size - some medication is horrible - then why not help her get into showing in hand, or driving?
		
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your suggesting that at 20 stone she runs at speed???


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## Arizahn (13 January 2012)

jhoward said:



			your suggesting that at 20 stone she runs at speed??? 

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Erm...confused and scared now?
Please explain in small words, lol!


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## karen_c (13 January 2012)

numptynoelle said:



			This is correct - especially cob geldings who can still exceed 45mph whilst in foal 

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Now that really _is_ a Wondercob


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## Persephone (13 January 2012)

Arizahn said:



			Erm...confused and scared now?
Please explain in small words, lol!
		
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Continental shift.


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## jhoward (13 January 2012)

the post is about a 20 stone woman riding a 15hh horse?


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## QueenOfCadence (13 January 2012)

Arizahn said:



			Is this the new Papa Frita thread? 

Seriously, I do not believe ANYONE who is seven stone and worried they are too heavy for a 14.2 welsh cob cross thoroughbred.

I am eleven and a half stone, and my 14.3 Arab is perfectly happy with me on her back. If she wasn't, she would soon let me know! By bucking me off. Or planting. Or not letting me mount up in the first place.

Reckon twenty one stone is pushing it though...I think for a 15hh the most would be around sixteen stone, including tack. I suppose it may depend on the horse's build and the rider's ability level too.

The best solution would be to surprise her with a paid for vet and physiotherapist/back person check for her mare - tell her you are helping make sure the horse is fit and healthy before she goes to all the expense of trying to breed from it 

Let the paid professionals advise her as to whether the mare is able to carry her. 

If she is too heavy, and has a reason for being that size - some medication is horrible - then why not help her get into showing in hand, or driving?
		
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Puh. I'm a worry wart (as mentioned) and I'm insecure about riding small horsie (14.2) because of all the nasty comments I've received from the people I compete against about being on a pony (most of them riding WBs 17hh and up). I like your vet suggestion though xD


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## FionaM12 (13 January 2012)

Arizahn said:



			Erm...confused and scared now?
Please explain in small words, lol!
		
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Doesn't showing inhand include a bit of running to trot them up? My grandmother was 20 stone and anything over a slow waddle was beyond her capabilities, poor love.


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## Arizahn (13 January 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			Doesn't showing inhand include a bit of running to trot them up? My grandmother was 20 stone and anything over a slow waddle was beyond her capabilities, poor love. 

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Ahh, see now I understand! Thank you. My brain is not fully recovered from last night's seizure yet
Well, there is still driving. 

QueenofCadence: If you aren't hurting the 14.2's back, etc, then ignore the nasty types! Enjoy your pony/small horse Seven stone is tiny!


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## ridefast (13 January 2012)

I do think 15h is too big though, perhaps she should get a puppy?


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## Keenjean (13 January 2012)

At least if she puts the mare in foal then its like she's riding two horses at once really so they'll be able to carry her just fine, it'll be good experience for the unborn foal


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## karen_c (13 January 2012)

ridefast said:



			I do think 15h is too big though, perhaps she should get a puppy?
		
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To ride?!


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## Arizahn (13 January 2012)

ridefast said:



			I do think 15h is too big though, perhaps she should get a puppy?
		
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Sigh - only halflings can RIDE puppies/dogs!
You mean she needs a pack of dogs. For driving

We are all very bad people!


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## Beausmate (13 January 2012)

Oh please, stop it!!  I've just snorted half a glass of very nice wine all over my keyboard 

Surely a person of a certain size would be better getting two shetties?  You know, one for each cheek?


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## FionaM12 (13 January 2012)

Arizahn said:



			Seriously, I do not believe ANYONE who is seven stone and worried they are too heavy for a 14.2 welsh cob cross thoroughbred.
		
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When someone starts a post with "I'm seven stone....", I just assume they're showing off.


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## Capriole (13 January 2012)

me too


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## angelish (13 January 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			When someone starts a post with "I'm seven stone....", I just assume they're showing off. 

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and thank the L*** for that i was about to go buy a shetland ,i have a 14"2 and i'm a little  more than 7 stone


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## Arizahn (13 January 2012)

My OH really likes Shetlands...the proper, traditional ones, with Thelwell type manes, etc. If we could afford our own land, he said he would buy one or two of them to keep Ali company. And so our nieces and nephews could ride them (small children and shetlands) - he's really taken with the idea.
Can't afford it yet, but maybe some day


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## FionaM12 (14 January 2012)

QueenOfCadence said:



			I weight about 7 stone (49kgs) and I ride a 14.2hh Welsh Cob x TB and I've worried about being too heavy for him! (though I'm a worry wart so it's nothing unusual):
		
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I genuinely can't believe that anyone who knows anything about horses could think 7 stone could be too much for a 14.2 Welsh Cob x. Okay, you're a worrier, but if you worry about something that's so clearly not the case, what else do you find to worry about?!








Or maybe I'm just bitter as I haven't been 7 stone since I was about 14.


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## SamanthaUK (14 January 2012)

I sense a troll


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## rhino (14 January 2012)

QueenOfCadence said:



			I weight about 7 stone (49kgs) and I ride a 14.2hh Welsh Cob x TB and I've worried about being too heavy for him!
		
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49kgs is actually just under 8st (7.10 to be exact). I weigh that and still school 12.2s


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## Fools Motto (14 January 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			Or maybe I'm just bitter as I haven't been 7 stone since I was about 14. 

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You and me both! I'd love to be under 9st let alone 7st!


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## FanyDuChamp (14 January 2012)

JennBags said:



			I'm wondering if the op is really sure that the horse is a mare, as I heard that geldings who are put in foal can carry four times as much weight as a shire 

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LOL


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## Ranyhyn (14 January 2012)

good grief


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## Tinsel Trouble (14 January 2012)

I'm sorry, but how rude! 

Not in any circumstances should this sort if comment be mentioned to anyone! 

If she is hurting the horse then the horse will show it. 

I think you should be very careful that the woman on question does not see this. You will hurt their feelings, and you will discredit yourself.


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## Wagtail (14 January 2012)

Tinsel Trouble said:



			If she is hurting the horse then the horse will show it.
		
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I'm afraid I completely disagree with this. Horses are very stoical creatures. Often they don't show any discomfort until too late. I rode my TB who was found to have KS in ten places and in over a year he only objected once. At this time I got the vet, but he had put up with me riding him for a year.

ETA I think 20 stone is way too heavy for a 15hh ID. It puzzles me why it doesn't seem to occur to these people, but then you get skinny minies worrying they are to big on their chunky ponies.


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## Ibblebibble (14 January 2012)

Beausmate said:



			Surely a person of a certain size would be better getting two shetties?  You know, one for each cheek? 

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fpmsl oh the image that brings to mind


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## BombayMix (14 January 2012)

I read somewhere that the reality is anyone over 14.5 stone exc. tack is too much strain on the horses spine regardless of whether it is a welsh sec A or a shire


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## Queenbee (14 January 2012)

rhino said:



			49kgs is actually just under 8st (7.10 to be exact). I weigh that and still school 12.2s 

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That is just cruel, a rhino mounting a 12.2 pony... I'm sure that type of cross breeding must be illegal


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## rhino (14 January 2012)

Queenbee said:



			That is just cruel, a rhino mounting a 12.2 pony... I'm sure that type of cross breeding must be illegal
		
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 Enough, you. I'm an ickle rhino


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## flying solo (14 January 2012)

Oh rhino your cute! Haha


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## Fantasy_World (14 January 2012)

BooM said:



			I read somewhere that the reality is anyone over 14.5 stone exc. tack is too much strain on the horses spine regardless of whether it is a welsh sec A or a shire
		
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Pssst better not tell these showjumping men and hunting folks that


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## Arizahn (14 January 2012)

I'm lucky; my mare is one of those horses that lets you know when something is wrong. Her body language changes completely if she is upset or scared, and the same if she is physically uncomfortable.

EG - When I went to view, she needed her teeth done (had been left unchecked for two years) and so she acted out a lot when her old owner was riding her. I got on, and could tell at once that she was leery of her mouth being pulled about. She was tense all through her neck and shoulders. Once she realised I wasn't going to tighten the reins at all, she relaxed and started ambling about calmly.

And yes, she's had her teeth done since then and is nice and settled


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## happyhacking:) (15 January 2012)

Tinsel Trouble said:



			I'm sorry, but how rude! 

Not in any circumstances should this sort if comment be mentioned to anyone! 

If she is hurting the horse then the horse will show it. 

I think you should be very careful that the woman on question does not see this. You will hurt their feelings, and you will discredit yourself.
		
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i agree. 

im sorry but these type of threads really p*** me off. As a larger rider myself i find them highly insulting. I know lots of other larger riders too and whilst the pc brigade love telling us we should not be riding and that we are cruel we KNOW differently. If my horse were ever to have an issue with my weight i would know about it. just as any decent rider would know if something is up with their horse. just because some people are larger does not mean that they cannot be good riders or that they do not know their own horses limits.

If the horse is going well isnt suffering from any issues then i suggest you leave well alone.


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## Welshie Squisher (15 January 2012)

I don't think any horse of any breed or size should have to carry 20 stone.
Even tall, 20 stone is a very overweight person and there is nothing "light about their seat!
I also thinks its rubbish to say a horse will let you know you're too heavy. One only has to look at small ponies, donkey's and mules in India and similar 3rd world countries carrying bricks and almost collapsing and yet they continue with a tap of the stick and they do so because that's life 

Of course all excessively heavy riders will claim there horses are fine, that they are doing no harm etc. There would be something seriously wrong with them if they acknowledged they are too heavy yet continued to ride 

I'm no light weight myself, won't even consider riding my filly this year.
Fact is I'm a fat cow and need to get my lard arse on a diet and my pony sure isn't going to have to suffer me at my current weight


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## QueenOfCadence (15 January 2012)

Welshie Squisher said:



			I don't think any horse of any breed or size should have to carry 20 stone.
Even tall, 20 stone is a very overweight person and there is nothing "light about their seat!
I also thinks its rubbish to say a horse will let you know you're too heavy. One only has to look at small ponies, donkey's and mules in India and similar 3rd world countries carrying bricks and almost collapsing and yet they continue with a tap of the stick and they do so because that's life 

Of course all excessively heavy riders will claim there horses are fine, that they are doing no harm etc. There would be something seriously wrong with them if they acknowledged they are too heavy yet continued to ride 

I'm no light weight myself, won't even consider riding my filly this year.
Fact is I'm a fat cow and need to get my lard arse on a diet and my pony sure isn't going to have to suffer me at my current weight 

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We should have a like button for THIS^^^^^!!! As riders we all need to know our limitations, I wont ride anything smaller than 12.2hh as I'm a short **** (but even so I don't think anything smaller than 12.2 should be expected to carry me) - if you're a taller, heavier rider then you need to know what CAN carry you!!! Horse riding is a sport, so if you are heavily obese you CAN'T expect to be taken seriously - have you even seen an overweight sprinter? Or  a fat Gymnast? Or maybe a jiggly Ballerina? NO. To be serious about riding, you unfortunately need to be serious about yourself - this means gyming (if it will help you to become easier to carry for your horse) and eating the correct foods (your horse will appreciate it)

Let's face it, 20 stone is as much as a small pony - you wouldn't expect your horse to carry around a small pony. Also, I believe that if loosing weight is impossible for you - buy a larger, weight carrying horse - not a scrawny TB or something along those lines.

Just my 2 cents worth


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## Always Henesy (15 January 2012)

rhino said:



 Enough, you. I'm an ickle rhino







[/QUOTE

I love this! You are a very funny Rhino. 

Re the thread: I am just under 14 stone and 5'10" tall. My horse is a 17.1hh TB, medium build. My other horse was a 17.2hh TBxWB, medium build. Both carry me without a care in the world. I was worried that they would find my weight an issue but both my vet and my saddler laughed at me when I asked them.
But all have said that I do ride sympathetically and with a "light" seat????
I have been riding 27 years and would NEVER sit on a horse that I thought would not be able to carry me.
I am a lard arse though and plan on losing 2 more stone.
		
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## Wagtail (15 January 2012)

Welshie Squisher said:



			I don't think any horse of any breed or size should have to carry 20 stone.
Even tall, 20 stone is a very overweight person and there is nothing "light about their seat!
I also thinks its rubbish to say a horse will let you know you're too heavy. One only has to look at small ponies, donkey's and mules in India and similar 3rd world countries carrying bricks and almost collapsing and yet they continue with a tap of the stick and they do so because that's life 

Of course all excessively heavy riders will claim there horses are fine, that they are doing no harm etc. There would be something seriously wrong with them if they acknowledged they are too heavy yet continued to ride 

I'm no light weight myself, won't even consider riding my filly this year.
Fact is I'm a fat cow and need to get my lard arse on a diet and my pony sure isn't going to have to suffer me at my current weight 

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What a good considered post this is! There is nothing wrong with being overweight, so long as you are happy but there IS something wrong when you don't realise that you are too heavy for your horse! As I said in an earlier post, my horse carried me without complaint even though he was in agony from kissing spines. One of the worst cases the hospital had seen. I had had his back checked by vet, chiro and physio and also had his saddle professionally fitted. No one picked up on the pain he was in. He would sometimes freak if his girth was tightened but I was assured by the vets that he was just girthy. So I continued. Even did some low level dressage. Until one day, completely out of the blue, he exploded! I had to insist on xrays as the vets all said his back was fine. So no, if you are too fat for your horse, they will NOT let you know.


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## Wagtail (15 January 2012)

Always Henesy said:





rhino said:



 Enough, you. I'm an ickle rhino







[/QUOTE

I love this! You are a very funny Rhino. 

Re the thread: I am just under 14 stone and 5'10" tall. My horse is a 17.1hh TB, medium build. My other horse was a 17.2hh TBxWB, medium build. Both carry me without a care in the world. I was worried that they would find my weight an issue but both my vet and my saddler laughed at me when I asked them.
But all have said that I do ride sympathetically and with a "light" seat????
I have been riding 27 years and would NEVER sit on a horse that I thought would not be able to carry me.
I am a lard arse though and plan on losing 2 more stone.
		
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But you are not 20 stone, are you? I would expect both your horses carry you just fine. But what about 20 stone on a 15 hand horse, like in the original post?
		
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## tazzle (15 January 2012)

I have a 15hh half shire and actually would have a stricter weight limit on her than my 14 welsh cob because of their conformation and age differences.

the older half shire used to be ok imo with 14 stone, maybe a tadge more if only light work and not a beginner bouncing around......... she is now limited to 12 max due to her age and not being very fit.

the welshie carried 14 stone doing endurance .... and she is one of those that does let one know by her behaviour when she is in pain  ...... although I do agree that many are stoical and would not till they one day have had enough !!! 

edited to add...... or rather some of them do tell in ways that humans either do not see, put down as being "naughty" or choose to ignore ( either by necessity or just not caring)


I would not allow anyone of 20 stone on either of my horses. ...... maybe a short backed fit ardenne or similar as this was the limit / decision at the RDA group I used to volunteer with.


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## Puzzles (15 January 2012)

Whether rightly or wrongly, there is a heavy horse trekking company in the Lake District who will not allow 20 stone riders (I witnessed the owner turning someone away who was of that weight) and their horses are (obviously) 17.2-18.2hh fit heavy weights..


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## C&C (15 January 2012)

I would keep shtum, it really isnt anyone elses business. Even though it maybe wrong and you may not agree with it, its not affecting you or your horses so i wouldnt say anything. I mean that in the nicest possible way


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## lula (15 January 2012)

Tinsel Trouble said:



			I'm sorry, but how rude! 

Not in any circumstances should this sort if comment be mentioned to anyone! 

If she is hurting the horse then the horse will show it. 

I think you should be very careful that the woman on question does not see this. You will hurt their feelings, and you will discredit yourself.
		
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hurt feelings is probably nothing compared to what that horse's back must be feeling.  
which is likely to hurt the most and who's do you prioritise?

i know whose i would. the one that cant speak up for itself.


i just hope to hell she uses a crane to mount and doesnt do a belly flop from the mounting block or need the local fire brigade to give her a leg up...


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## Wagtail (15 January 2012)

C&C said:



			I would keep shtum, it really isnt anyone elses business. Even though it maybe wrong and you may not agree with it, its not affecting you or your horses so i wouldnt say anything. I mean that in the nicest possible way 

Click to expand...

So we should turn a blind eye to cruelty of it doesn't affect ourselves or our horses?


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## C&C (15 January 2012)

Wagtail said:



			So we should turn a blind eye to cruelty of it doesn't affect ourselves or our horses? 

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Oh come on PLEASE......is it REALLY cruelty!!!!! Is the horse starved, doesnt get looked after, feet a mile long, no water etc etc etc!! So the owner is a larger lady SO WHAT! Im sure the horse is much loved and cared for and happy. Ive seen PLENTY of larger ladies riding 15hh and smaller on the hunting field and in the SHOW RING!! Im sure the judge would have something to say if they thought the rider was TOO HEAVY for their horse!!!

Get a life and stop bitching about people who are overweight! Honestly!


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## lula (15 January 2012)

Welshie Squisher said:



			I don't think any horse of any breed or size should have to carry 20 stone.
Even tall, 20 stone is a very overweight person and there is nothing "light about their seat!
I also thinks its rubbish to say a horse will let you know you're too heavy. One only has to look at small ponies, donkey's and mules in India and similar 3rd world countries carrying bricks and almost collapsing and yet they continue with a tap of the stick and they do so because that's life 

Of course all excessively heavy riders will claim there horses are fine, that they are doing no harm etc. There would be something seriously wrong with them if they acknowledged they are too heavy yet continued to ride 

I'm no light weight myself, won't even consider riding my filly this year.
Fact is I'm a fat cow and need to get my lard arse on a diet and my pony sure isn't going to have to suffer me at my current weight 

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and that is what i call good old fashioned common sense and i completly agree with you. 

Nowadays its so un pc to just call anyone Fat isnt it.? 
well sorry if some of you find this fact unsavory but 20 stone is not a 'larger rider' its bloomin obese.


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## Always Henesy (15 January 2012)

Wagtail said:





Always Henesy said:



			But you are not 20 stone, are you? I would expect both your horses carry you just fine. But what about 20 stone on a 15 hand horse, like in the original post?
		
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No I'm not 20 stone. I would not put 20 stone on any horse of mine - even a Shire or heavyweight.

I consider myself to be a heavyweight at just under 14 stone which I am working on (want to get down to 12 stone) - for that reason I would only ever ride a horse capable of carrying me.
I also have a 15.2hh Arab. I would never ride him until I got down to 12 stone.
I let my lightweight friend ride him instead.
		
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## QueenOfCadence (15 January 2012)

C&C said:



			Oh come on PLEASE......is it REALLY cruelty!!!!! Is the horse starved, doesnt get looked after, feet a mile long, no water etc etc etc!! So the owner is a larger lady SO WHAT! Im sure the horse is much loved and cared for and happy. Ive seen PLENTY of larger ladies riding 15hh and smaller on the hunting field and in the SHOW RING!! Im sure the judge would have something to say if they thought the rider was TOO HEAVY for their horse!!!

Get a life and stop bitching about people who are overweight! Honestly!
		
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Just like a judge would say something about a horse with a bleeding sides??? (did anyone else see the Chinese lady who's horse's skin was broken because of her spurs at the last Olympic games). It's not the judges job to stop cruelty - they're only there to judge performance. Also if carrying 20 stone on your back isn't cruelty - lets see you do it for 35 - 40 minutes


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## Burnttoast (15 January 2012)

C&C said:



			Oh come on PLEASE......is it REALLY cruelty!!!!! Is the horse starved, doesnt get looked after, feet a mile long, no water etc etc etc!! So the owner is a larger lady SO WHAT! Im sure the horse is much loved and cared for and happy. Ive seen PLENTY of larger ladies riding 15hh and smaller on the hunting field and in the SHOW RING!! Im sure the judge would have something to say if they thought the rider was TOO HEAVY for their horse!!!

Get a life and stop bitching about people who are overweight! Honestly!
		
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What's all the shouting about?  Umm, there hasn't been any bitching about the overweight as far as I can see. If anything, it's the thin who've been getting it in the neck 
But come on, have you never carried a heavy rucksack and wished you didn't have to? It's every rider's responsibility to make a realistic educated decision about whether their horse is up to their weight, but not every rider will do this, unfortunately. Hence these debates.



lula said:



			and that is what i call good old fashioned common sense and i completly agree with you.
		
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Me too!


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## Wagtail (15 January 2012)

C&C said:



			Oh come on PLEASE......is it REALLY cruelty!!!!! Is the horse starved, doesnt get looked after, feet a mile long, no water etc etc etc!! So the owner is a larger lady SO WHAT! Im sure the horse is much loved and cared for and happy. Ive seen PLENTY of larger ladies riding 15hh and smaller on the hunting field and in the SHOW RING!! Im sure the judge would have something to say if they thought the rider was TOO HEAVY for their horse!!!

Get a life and stop bitching about people who are overweight! Honestly!
		
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Yes it IS cruelty. Just because there are worse things being done to animals does not mean it should be ignored. 

And FTR I could not care less about whether people are over weight if that is how they are happy. Nothing against overweight people at all. But I Am against abusing animals, and in my eyes forcing a 15 hh horse to carry 20 stone plus tack is abuse.


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## Puzzles (15 January 2012)

C&C said:



			Oh come on PLEASE......is it REALLY cruelty!!!!! Is the horse starved, doesnt get looked after, feet a mile long, no water etc etc etc!! So the owner is a larger lady SO WHAT! Im sure the horse is much loved and cared for and happy. Ive seen PLENTY of larger ladies riding 15hh and smaller on the hunting field and in the SHOW RING!! Im sure the judge would have something to say if they thought the rider was TOO HEAVY for their horse!!!

Get a life and stop bitching about people who are overweight! Honestly!
		
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While some of the comments might be a bit bitchy, from my perspective it isn't about the individual being overweight that is the issue: it's about the effect of that person's weight on the horse when it is too great. Regardless of whether that person's feelings might be hurt, or if the horse is being looked after well, you can't say that a horse carrying a rider that is too heavy is not an issue. It's a very important issue in many ways! Mainly with the physical problems that it would cause - not necessarily instantaneously but over time and as the horse ages, plus the vets fees if that horse needs medical treatment for it, the person not being able to ride because their horse isn't well, etc. If only there were an objective, systematic way of measuring whether a rider is too heavy for a horse. 
You could think about it this way - think of all the 'minor' problems that horses have when they are carrying lighter riders, with regards to tack fit, kissing spines, bruising sore backs, stiffness etc ... with a rider that is too heavy for the horse, all those common niggles are magnified.


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## team barney (15 January 2012)

C&C said:



			Oh come on PLEASE......is it REALLY cruelty!!!!! Is the horse starved, doesnt get looked after, feet a mile long, no water etc etc etc!! So the owner is a larger lady SO WHAT! Im sure the horse is much loved and cared for and happy. Ive seen PLENTY of larger ladies riding 15hh and smaller on the hunting field and in the SHOW RING!! Im sure the judge would have something to say if they thought the rider was TOO HEAVY for their horse!!!

Get a life and stop bitching about people who are overweight! Honestly!
		
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The fact you think cruelty is only defined by lack of nutrition beggars belief.  There are plenty of well fed horses that are beaten and abused does the fact they have adequate nutrition make the treatment they receive okay?

No one who weighs 20 stone should be riding full stop, if they do ride, clearly don't give a damn about their horse's welfare.  Anyone that who is overweight to that degree should refrain from riding off until they slim down.  If losing weight isn't an option they should find another way to enjoy the company of horses, riding isn't the only pleasure we get from our equine friends.


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## happyhacking:) (15 January 2012)

I'm sorry but I don't think any of you have a right to judge. I'm not 20 but I'm not light. My mare DOES NOT HAVE Problems due to my weight. Would I let someone of 20 stone on her yes I would of I knew how they rode. Height of horse is completely irrelevant where weight carrying is concerned. How stocky they are and how much bone they have is a much better indication of weight carrying Ability


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## team barney (15 January 2012)

happyhacking:) said:



			I'm sorry but I don't think any of you have a right to judge. I'm not 20 but I'm not light. My mare DOES NOT HAVE Problems due to my weight. Would I let someone of 20 stone on her yes I would of I knew how they rode. Height of horse is completely irrelevant where weight carrying is concerned. How stocky they are and how much bone they have is a much better indication of weight carrying Ability
		
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I agree height is irrelevant, but there are very few horses out there who would be capable of carrying 20 stone.  Perhaps a few of the super heavy horses bred for their meat would be upto the job, but certainly non of the traditional riding types or natives.  I wouldn't even be putting 20 stone on a super heavyweight gypsy cob.


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## Burnttoast (15 January 2012)

Bone and build may provide a guide but it's the back you sit on. Its length and strength (or otherwise) and the strength of the abdominal muscles should be the guide as much as whether or not the horse has 10 inches of bone.


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## QueenOfCadence (15 January 2012)

Burnttoast said:



			Bone and build may provide a guide but it's the back you sit on. Its length and strength (or otherwise) and the strength of the abdominal muscles should be the guide as much as whether or not the horse has 10 inches of bone.
		
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Like like like!!!


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## Wagtail (15 January 2012)

Burnttoast said:



			Bone and build may provide a guide but it's the back you sit on. Its length and strength (or otherwise) and the strength of the abdominal muscles should be the guide as much as whether or not the horse has 10 inches of bone.
		
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True, my 17.3 ID could not carry a huge weight. I could just tell by the way his back dipped slightly before his rump. I limited him to 14 stone light hacking and 12 stone for harder work. If his back had looked stronger then he could perhaps have managed 16 stone. But 20 stone is too heavy for any horse IMO.


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## happyhacking:) (15 January 2012)

Burnttoast that is true. There are lots of factors that Influence the horses ability to carry weight. So much so that without knowing all the facts about a horse it is very difficult to know for sure. 

When I set out to buy a horse I won't for a specific breed known for it's weight carrying ability whilst not being enormous. 

Just because some of us are a few stone heavier than would be ideal does not mean that we do not no what we are talking about or that we cannot be good and competent riders. I know I would know if my weight became an issue for my horse just as anyone else would know immedietly if something was wrong with their horses. It is much more important to have correctly fitting tack and regular back specialists/osteopaths visits to asses your horse and keeping the horse as fit as possible is also key. It is possible that over time the wear and tear on the horses joints may be greater than if they had had a lighter rider but then do much is down to circumstance. If the horse is happy working well and isn't showing signs of discomfort then odds are things are fine.


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## welshcobabe (15 January 2012)

To be honest I dont think it is up to you to comment. I think you should leave well alone I have know heavier riders who ride very light and thin people that are like a bag of spuds.
ID are good weight carriers.


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## Burnttoast (15 January 2012)

Wagtail said:



			But 20 stone is too heavy for any horse IMO.
		
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I agree with you totally about this btw. I must admit, I can't imagine how anyone would think anything different


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## Burnttoast (15 January 2012)

happyhacking:) said:



			Burnttoast that is true. There are lots of factors that Influence the horses ability to carry weight. So much so that without knowing all the facts about a horse it is very difficult to know for sure. 

When I set out to buy a horse I won't for a specific breed known for it's weight carrying ability whilst not being enormous. 

Just because some of us are a few stone heavier than would be ideal does not mean that we do not no what we are talking about or that we cannot be good and competent riders. I know I would know if my weight became an issue for my horse just as anyone else would know immedietly if something was wrong with their horses. It is much more important to have correctly fitting tack and regular back specialists/osteopaths visits to asses your horse and keeping the horse as fit as possible is also key. It is possible that over time the wear and tear on the horses joints may be greater than if they had had a lighter rider but then do much is down to circumstance. If the horse is happy working well and isn't showing signs of discomfort then odds are things are fine.
		
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You sound like you've considered the issue and know what you're doing - which is great, and I applaud you for it. I am fortunate in that it is rarely an issue I need to worry about. But, believe me, there are people out there who haven't and don't - and they would not all be considered as particularly overweight. I could show you pictures of a person of 12 stone riding (badly) a stocky 16hh IDx with a dropped back that would make your hair stand on end.


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## Wagtail (15 January 2012)

For all those who think this thread is 'fattist', we had a similar one recently regarding a 7 stone woman riding a miniature shettie. I and others were equally appalled. It has nothing to do with how fat or thin a person is, but whether they are too heavy for the horse they are riding.


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## shadowboy (15 January 2012)

I thinly there are very few horses out there with the appropriate shape and size  that could carry over 20 stone without causing adverse wear and tear on joints.  I've nothing against big riders I teach a lady who is 16 stone (size 18/20) and is competing at elementary dressage. But 20 stone imo is going to be difficult to be balanced and supple to support the horse through movements and transitions. plus saddle fitting must be difficult to ensure the rider sits 'in' the saddle.


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## Honey08 (15 January 2012)

It would be interesting to hear Janet George's opinion as she breeds IDs doesn't she.

I'm another one that thinks  that  there are many other features apart from size that effect the weight carrying capabilities of a horse - a horse with a short strong back would be better than a taller horse with a longer back.

I always thought that the ID was originally bred as a strong riding horse that could carry a farmer round the farm and pull a cart to market, so it should be up to some weight carrying really.  I also thought that they weren't over tall horses - so a 17.3h ID is probably not the best example of the breed, and perpaps not the strongest as it is "overgrown", for want of a better word, sorry Wagtail, don't mean to insult your ID, I was just suprised to read of one so tall!


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## QueenOfCadence (15 January 2012)

Am I the only one that thinks that it's absolutely ridiculous that we're even discussing if a 20 stone woman should be on a 15hh PONY (which IS what I see most 15hh horses as!). I don't care if the horse has vertebrae of steel - she is too heavy for it! It's not a debate that should even revolve around opinion! Anatomically she is TOO HEAVY - end of story!


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## FionaM12 (15 January 2012)

I have enormous sympathy with anyone with a weight/eating disorder. I've struggled with weight issues in the past and have a history of compulsive/disordered eating. So I am the last person to be guilty of fattism. I have my own weight under control these days but it's a life-long battle and has taken a lot of work and support.

However my history means I've a little knowledge on the subject too, and a 20 stone woman is probably morbidly obese and at grave risk of heart and other organ failure. She will also be aware that there are some things her weight means she cannot do, unless she loses weight. 

And in my opinion, sadly for her, riding a horse is one of them.


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## rhino (15 January 2012)

QueenOfCadence said:



			Anatomically she is TOO HEAVY - end of story!
		
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But as horses were not anatomically *designed* to carry weight at all, of course how much weight we feel they should carry is down to opinion!


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## lula (15 January 2012)

i bet the sight of her backside in skintight jods is something special to behold

sorry


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## Honey08 (15 January 2012)

QueenOfCadence said:



			Am I the only one that thinks that it's absolutely ridiculous that we're even discussing if a 20 stone woman should be on a 15hh PONY (which IS what I see most 15hh horses as!). I don't care if the horse has vertebrae of steel - she is too heavy for it! It's not a debate that should even revolve around opinion! Anatomically she is TOO HEAVY - end of story!
		
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Yes a bit, but then I thought that you were a bit ridiculous thinking that you were too heavy for a 14.2 at 7 stone! At 7 stone there is very little that you would be too heavy for!  (Not meaning to be offensive).  I honestly thought to myself that you must be verging on anorexic to have posted that.

And a 15h is not a pony.  And a 15h ID is totally different to a  15h arab/tb type..


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## jodie3 (15 January 2012)

A cob with a strong, short back would not be able to take a saddle big enough for a 20 stone riders bottom.


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## FionaM12 (15 January 2012)

lula said:



			i bet the sight of her backside in skintight jods is something special to behold

sorry

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Now that's unkind.  Many of our behinds are not such a great sight either....


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## FionaM12 (15 January 2012)

Burnttoast said:



			What's all the shouting about?  Umm, there hasn't been any bitching about the overweight as far as I can see. *If anything, it's the thin who've been getting it in the neck *

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Oops that could be me. 


It's just jealousy, of course.


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## Daytona (15 January 2012)

Way too heavy, now I consider myself a larger rider at 5.10" and 13 stone, and at this weight I'm overweight for my height.  But i 
am working on it, joined WW last 
week as I believe it is unfair for 
my 17hh 4 year old WB to carry 
me at that weight and with a lack
 of fitness.  People put alot of 
emphasis in the horses fitness 
and weights so is it fair not to 
expect the same from the rider.  If 
you want to ride a horse I think 
you should have a good fitness level yourself and not be overweight or worse obese.  I cringe at competitions watching large people out of breath on their poor horses.  It's not rocket science, eat less, and excercise 99% of people are capable of being a healthy weight.  So sorry I would say something.


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## Burnttoast (15 January 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			Oops that could be me. 


It's just jealousy, of course. 

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Ha ha! Yes, so it was! But you had help  Your comrades need to come and fess up too, now - speaking as a skinny(ish) I am most hurt  

And diverging slightly to your post in reply to Lula, I would like to say that I am 8.5 stone and have a bottom that I am embarrassed to be seen in public with  If there's any spreading inelegantly to be done, you can bet my bottom will be doing it...


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## Fantasy_World (15 January 2012)

i just hope to hell she uses a crane to mount and doesnt do a belly flop from the mounting block or need the local fire brigade to give her a leg up...[/QUOTE]

How rude !!!!!!!!


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## Capriole (15 January 2012)

Honey08 said:



			Yes a bit, but then I thought that you were a bit ridiculous thinking that you were too heavy for a 14.2 at 7 stone! At 7 stone there is very little that you would be too heavy for!  (Not meaning to be offensive).  I honestly thought to myself that you must be verging on anorexic to have posted that.

And a 15h is not a pony.  And a 15h ID is totally different to a  15h arab/tb type..
		
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Sorry QOC but I had the same thoughts. And no, 15h isnt a pony, its a horse


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## Alphamare (15 January 2012)

Just to point out, those drum horses in the army carry a man plus two 90-100lb drums!


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## ridefast (15 January 2012)

Well, I'm 8 stone and worry that my rabbit won't be able to pull me in a sleigh next christmas


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## rhino (15 January 2012)

ridefast said:



			Well, I'm 8 stone and worry that my rabbit won't be able to pull me in a sleigh next christmas
		
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Then get a goat   Problem solved!


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## ridefast (15 January 2012)

I don't like goats, because I'm breedist. How about a sheep? I have 3 of those!


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## rhino (15 January 2012)

ridefast said:



			I don't like goats, because I'm breedist. How about a sheep? I have 3 of those!
		
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Yes, that would do. What kind of sheep? Zwartbles are good drivers, and I've seen a nice little Jacob drive too


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## ridefast (15 January 2012)

Bum am I supposed to have pedigrees? They're Texel/mule crosses


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## ClassicG&T (15 January 2012)

I think you should say something, IMO 18st and over including tack is too heavy, no matter what breed/built. It isnt fair on the horse and they must struggle to work well on the flat or jumping with that much weight thumping of their back.

I know someone who is around 16st and their horse struggles with jumping and they are a 17.1hh ( not sure on breed but certainly isnt a heavy one eg ID) beast.


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## ClassicG&T (15 January 2012)

ridefast said:



			Well, I'm 8 stone and worry that my rabbit won't be able to pull me in a sleigh next christmas
		
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LOL!


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## bugbee717 (15 January 2012)

Off now to list my 12 horses on dragon driving, as I am sure I will find a better home for them on there, that's if I can lift my fat hand to the keyboard to type, how many of you understand what 20 stone looks like, 20 stone fat, 20 stone muscle. I would show a photo of myself, but my pc is too full and can't take such a huge photo. I am 20 stone, I have been bigger, I can run, I lift over 20 stone of poo a day so yes I know what it feels like. Just because you are 20 stone it does not mean you are unfit. I have 12 horses, 6 dogs, 3 kids and spend each and everyday running around after them, and fit working in as well, when I am not doing that I ride my horse, he is 14.3hh haflinger that can lift me of the floor with his head, I don't need a crane to get on him. I also can manage to fit my fat bum in a 17inch saddle without it dropping down the sides. Trust me if my horse has a problem he does let you know, as most people have found out. So whilst this is a lovely thread, none of us know one what this women looks like, she could be a 20 stone body builder, 2 we really have no idea how fit her horse is, or of what type, you can have the same breed of horse, but they can be very different types.


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## happyhacking:) (15 January 2012)

Well said bb717


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## Wagtail (15 January 2012)

bugbee717 said:



			Off now to list my 12 horses on dragon driving, as I am sure I will find a better home for them on there, that's if I can lift my fat hand to the keyboard to type, how many of you understand what 20 stone looks like, 20 stone fat, 20 stone muscle. I would show a photo of myself, but my pc is too full and can't take such a huge photo. I am 20 stone, I have been bigger, I can run, I lift over 20 stone of poo a day so yes I know what it feels like. Just because you are 20 stone it does not mean you are unfit. I have 12 horses, 6 dogs, 3 kids and spend each and everyday running around after them, and fit working in as well, when I am not doing that I ride my horse, he is 14.3hh haflinger that can lift me of the floor with his head, I don't need a crane to get on him. I also can manage to fit my fat bum in a 17inch saddle without it dropping down the sides. Trust me if my horse has a problem he does let you know, as most people have found out. So whilst this is a lovely thread, none of us know one what this women looks like, she could be a 20 stone body builder, 2 we really have no idea how fit her horse is, or of what type, you can have the same breed of horse, but they can be very different types.
		
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Why should it matter what she looks like? 20 stone concentrated on a 17 inch saddle is too heavy.


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## QueenOfCadence (15 January 2012)

Honey08 said:



			Yes a bit, but then I thought that you were a bit ridiculous thinking that you were too heavy for a 14.2 at 7 stone! At 7 stone there is very little that you would be too heavy for!  (Not meaning to be offensive).  I honestly thought to myself that you must be verging on anorexic to have posted that.
		
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Well yes honey, I do have an eating disorder that I'm not very proud of but I do have it under control . However, I'm short - 7 stone is not underweight for me and as I've said in previous comments, I'm very self conscious about my horse's size in relation to mine because of rude things that other riders have said to me

I'm not "fattist" - because 20 stone could be an extremely tall person (which in that case she wouldn't be obese), however I DO think it's too heavy for a horse to carry, regardless if the rider is simply tall or heavily obese. You wouldn't put someone who weighs 5 stone on an 18hh horse - why put someone who weighs 20 stone on a 15hh? It's all relative and really has nothing to do with being fat or not


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## The-mad-cat-lady (15 January 2012)

Awww !

Don't be so mean you lot
As long as she loves the horse what does matter how much she weighs. 
Bet there are lots of skinny minnies who don't love their horses as much as she loves hers


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## Fantasy_World (15 January 2012)

bugbee717 said:



			Off now to list my 12 horses on dragon driving, as I am sure I will find a better home for them on there, that's if I can lift my fat hand to the keyboard to type, how many of you understand what 20 stone looks like, 20 stone fat, 20 stone muscle. I would show a photo of myself, but my pc is too full and can't take such a huge photo. I am 20 stone, I have been bigger, I can run, I lift over 20 stone of poo a day so yes I know what it feels like. Just because you are 20 stone it does not mean you are unfit. I have 12 horses, 6 dogs, 3 kids and spend each and everyday running around after them, and fit working in as well, when I am not doing that I ride my horse, he is 14.3hh haflinger that can lift me of the floor with his head, I don't need a crane to get on him. I also can manage to fit my fat bum in a 17inch saddle without it dropping down the sides. Trust me if my horse has a problem he does let you know, as most people have found out. So whilst this is a lovely thread, none of us know one what this women looks like, she could be a 20 stone body builder, 2 we really have no idea how fit her horse is, or of what type, you can have the same breed of horse, but they can be very different types.
		
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Very well said and don't worry HHO has been known over the years for its often 'fatist' or should I say 'facist' attitude


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## rhino (15 January 2012)

Fantasy_World said:



			Very well said and don't worry HHO has been known over the years for its often 'fatist' or should I say 'facist' attitude 

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Funny, I would have said it has been known for being interested in debates about equine welfare... like this  Hardly fa*s*cist as there is no hierarchy or control on here, barring t&cs of course.

MCL if only love was enough. Sadly when you see the number of horses  injured through ignorance it becomes apparent it is not enough, not by a long way. 'Love' isn't feeding a horse into obesity/laminitis, nor riding a horse that isn't up to weight..


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## Wagtail (15 January 2012)

The-mad-cat-lady said:



			Awww !

Don't be so mean you lot
As long as she loves the horse what does matter how much she weighs. 
Bet there are lots of skinny minnies who don't love their horses as much as she loves hers
		
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If she loved the horse she wouldn't ride it. Sorry but that's a fact. I had a 12.2 hh section B here. He kept running off and dumping his six year old rider. I am nearly ten stone and no way would I subject him to my weight, nor would any of the other adults on the yard. I am tall and a size ten, but I knew I was too heavy for that pony. 

The point is not about what people look like or how heavy they are, it's about not making horses carry more weight than is good for them. A loving and thoughtful owner would know this, and not put their own desires before the welfare of the horse.


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## The-mad-cat-lady (15 January 2012)

But Rhino !
Love is all you need "wink" lol


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## Welshie Squisher (15 January 2012)

Bugbee717 - doesn't matter what you look like, 20 stone is 20 stone.

I am fat myself, and yes I can call myself fat. I refuse to kid myself, to justify being fat with a whole list of what I can do.
I'd rather concentrate on the list of what I can't do, and do something about it!

And riding my 13.3hh young pony is on the can't do list at present  

As I said in my previous post, of course those that are overweight for their horses will tell you their horses are fine, because to admit to being too heavy and continue riding shows little regard for the horse.

I stand by what I originally said and that is absolutely no horse should have to carry 20 stone, its just wrong, regardless of size or breed


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## rhino (15 January 2012)

The-mad-cat-lady said:



			But Rhino !
Love is all you need "wink" lol
		
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  Sorry, bit slow on the uptake tonight!


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## The-mad-cat-lady (15 January 2012)

Get back in the bar !


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## QueenOfCadence (15 January 2012)

Welshie Squisher said:



			Bugbee717 - doesn't matter what you look like, 20 stone is 20 stone.

I am fat myself, and yes I can call myself fat. I refuse to kid myself, to justify being fat with a whole list of what I can do.
I'd rather concentrate on the list of what I can't do, and do something about it!

And riding my 13.3hh young pony is on the can't do list at present  

As I said in my previous post, of course those that are overweight for their horses will tell you their horses are fine, because to admit to being too heavy and continue riding shows little regard for the horse.

I stand by what I originally said and that is absolutely no horse should have to carry 20 stone, its just wrong, regardless of size or breed 

Click to expand...

-applause-  I'm glad you had the guts to post this Welshie    -another round of applause-


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## JFTDWS (15 January 2012)

The-mad-cat-lady said:



			Awww !

Don't be so mean you lot
As long as she loves the horse what does matter how much she weighs. 
Bet there are lots of skinny minnies who don't love their horses as much as she loves hers
		
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OK ROFL  Some of this thread is hilarious, but when people take a comment like this seriously, a piece of me dies inside!


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## rhino (15 January 2012)

The-mad-cat-lady said:



			Get back in the bar !
		
Click to expand...








ETA JFTD, I know   Have obviously been spending too much time in NL this weekend


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## Blitzen (15 January 2012)

Does the big lass in question realise she's that fat? Speaking from experience, its scary how easy it is for weight to creep up over time and you not even realise, especially if you don't own a set of scales! My weight crept up slowly, I put on 2 stone in 2 years. I didn't even notice, I went up from a size 14 to 16 but that's all. I'm in the process of trying to drop a stone or so, as I will be backing my youngster this summer.

To be honest, I'd try to say something, subtley and kindly as possible, as it can't be good for the big gals horse. Its asking for back/joint problems in the future. Just because he CAN carry 20st doesn't necessarily mean he should have to.


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## Fantasy_World (15 January 2012)

Welshie Squisher said:



			Bugbee717 - doesn't matter what you look like, 20 stone is 20 stone.

I am fat myself, and yes I can call myself fat. I refuse to kid myself, to justify being fat with a whole list of what I can do.
I'd rather concentrate on the list of what I can't do, and do something about it!

And riding my 13.3hh young pony is on the can't do list at present  

As I said in my previous post, of course those that are overweight for their horses will tell you their horses are fine, because to admit to being too heavy and continue riding shows little regard for the horse.

I stand by what I originally said and that is absolutely no horse should have to carry 20 stone, its just wrong, regardless of size or breed 

Click to expand...

So just to answer one of my questions for the record what do horses in the Household Cavalry for example carry during work and training?
Excluding the weight of the rider, saddle and other dress code worn by horse and rider a pair of drums alone weigh 9 stone 10lbs. Do most regimental riders weigh far less than 10 stone then? I think not


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## lula (15 January 2012)

Fantasy_World said:



			i just hope to hell she uses a crane to mount and doesnt do a belly flop from the mounting block or need the local fire brigade to give her a leg up...
		
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How rude !!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

possibly. but said with tongue firmly in cheek but that obviously went right over your head in your rush to want to be offended.
some of you take lot- funnily enough the '20 stone is fine' posters - seem to take yourselves far too seriously but if i have offended anyone who didnt get the tone of my remark in the humor it was meant, then i sincerely apologise.


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## cassie summers (15 January 2012)

i am fat i am fit i ride my horse for about 45/60 mins a day mainly hacking a bit of walk a bit of trot nothing major she happily jiggy jogs all the way out and all the way back i did ask my vet did she think i was to heavy for her and she was very honest and said well i wouldnt advise taking her hunting ect for the day but an hour each day no problem i have a mw/hw shire x i have had her checked out by physio who found no problems why cant fat people be allowed to have a horse after all if i didnt go to the stables and muck out 3 horses take them out to the fields and ride i could be even bigger its my way of exercise and no i dont feed my face with crap all day but i work 12 hour night shifts sitting on my bum in front of a computer i sleep for a max of 5 hours a day my day starts when most of your days end of course i would love to be slimmer but it can be hard so stop being so fattist were not all perfect and OP if your so worried then say something to the woman


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## Welshie Squisher (15 January 2012)

I have no idea fantasy_world, perhaps you should ask them?

I'm sure if you think long and hard enough you can come up with many examples of horses carrying over 20 stone, doesn't make it right!


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## lula (15 January 2012)

Fantasy_World said:



			So just to answer one of my questions for the record what do horses in the Household Cavalry for example carry during work and training?
Excluding the weight of the rider, saddle and other dress code worn by horse and rider a pair of drums alone weigh 9 stone 10lbs. Do most regimental riders weigh far less than 10 stone then? I think not
		
Click to expand...

the distribution of weight would make this much easier to carry. The drums are strapped on the side of the horse which is not the same as a concentrated weight balanced on top of the spine.

i would be very interested to hear the opinions of any equine chiropractors/back people on the forum on this subject


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## Starbucks (15 January 2012)

cassie summers said:



			i am fat i am fit i ride my horse for about 45/60 mins a day mainly hacking a bit of walk a bit of trot nothing major she happily jiggy jogs all the way out and all the way back i did ask my vet did she think i was to heavy for her and she was very honest and said well i wouldnt advise taking her hunting ect for the day but an hour each day no problem i have a mw/hw shire x i have had her checked out by physio who found no problems why cant fat people be allowed to have a horse after all if i didnt go to the stables and muck out 3 horses take them out to the fields and ride i could be even bigger its my way of exercise and no i dont feed my face with crap all day but i work 12 hour night shifts sitting on my bum in front of a computer i sleep for a max of 5 hours a day my day starts when most of your days end of course i would love to be slimmer but it can be hard so stop being so fattist were not all perfect and OP if your so worried then say something to the woman
		
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Not all perfect, but don't all need to chose horse riding as a hobby either! 

Admire that it sounds like you have a suitably sized horse but not all people do, which bothers me a lot!!

Having said that I've seen plenty of very large men hunting on suitably large horses who seem to manage ok, think 20 stone is pushing it though.


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## cassie summers (15 January 2012)

Starbucks said:



			Not all perfect, but don't all need to chose horse riding as a hobby either! 

Admire that it sounds like you have a suitably sized horse but not all people do, which bothers me a lot!!

Having said that I've seen plenty of very large men hunting on suitably large horses who seem to manage ok, think 20 stone is pushing it though.
		
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no i am not 20 stone and no i didnt choose horse riding as my hobbie i am 51 years old my parents bread hunters so i grew up with horses up untill 12 years ago i bought and sold horses for a living so they are in my blood and yes i agree i do ride a suitable horse and when i sold them i would say to someone that i thought they would be to heavy if they were i sold cobs so some of my customers were overweight but why do they have to make such a fuss about it on this forum every day theres a "do you think i am to heavy thread"sorryu rant over


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## Fantasy_World (15 January 2012)

lula said:



			How rude !!!!!!!!
		
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possibly. but said with tongue firmly in cheek but that obviously went right over your head in your rush to want to be offended.
some of you take lot- funnily enough the '20 stone is fine' posters - seem to take yourselves far too seriously but if i have offended anyone who didnt get the tone of my remark in the humor it was meant, then i sincerely apologise.[/QUOTE]

Actually you don't know me that well hun as some on here do and are well versed with my excellent sense of humour and not being offended that easily 
If you had wanted it to sound amusing perhaps you should have included a lol, or better still not said it all as there are many bigger riders in the horse world who could quite easily take offence at what was posted.


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## Fantasy_World (15 January 2012)

lula said:



			the distribution of weight would make this much easier to carry. The drums are strapped on the side of the horse which is not the same as a concentrated weight balanced on top of the spine.

i would be very interested to hear the opinions of any equine chiropractors/back people on the forum on this subject
		
Click to expand...

Just a question, where do one's legs sit when seated on a horse. Personally I ride with mine tucked up my neatly formed bottom lol


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## Starbucks (15 January 2012)

cassie summers said:



			no i am not 20 stone and no i didnt choose horse riding as my hobbie i am 51 years old my parents bread hunters so i grew up with horses up untill 12 years ago i bought and sold horses for a living so they are in my blood and yes i agree i do ride a suitable horse and when i sold them i would say to someone that i thought they would be to heavy if they were i sold cobs so some of my customers were overweight but why do they have to make such a fuss about it on this forum every day theres a "do you think i am to heavy thread"sorryu rant over
		
Click to expand...

Maybe because there are a lot of fat people who are riding horses who are too small for them?

Most people who ask are not too big at all, because they have the sense and respect for their horse that they actually think about these things. Some people however, do not.


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## midi (15 January 2012)

Welshie Squisher said:



			Bugbee717 - doesn't matter what you look like, 20 stone is 20 stone.

I am fat myself, and yes I can call myself fat. I refuse to kid myself, to justify being fat with a whole list of what I can do.
I'd rather concentrate on the list of what I can't do, and do something about it!

I stand by what I originally said and that is absolutely no horse should have to carry 20 stone, its just wrong, regardless of size or breed 

Click to expand...

I totally agree with this and anyone kidding themselves that they're 20stone of pure muscle needs to get a reality check, 20 stone is unhealthy and wrong for any human to weigh let alone have a horse carry it as well.


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## The-mad-cat-lady (15 January 2012)

Try telling Geoff Capes that


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## lula (15 January 2012)

Fantasy_World said:



			possibly. but said with tongue firmly in cheek but that obviously went right over your head in your rush to want to be offended.
some of you take lot- funnily enough the '20 stone is fine' posters - seem to take yourselves far too seriously but if i have offended anyone who didnt get the tone of my remark in the humor it was meant, then i sincerely apologise.
		
Click to expand...

Actually you don't know me that well hun as some on here do and are well versed with my excellent sense of humour and not being offended that easily 
If you had wanted it to sound amusing perhaps you should have included a lol, or better still not said it all as there are many bigger riders in the horse world who could quite easily take offence at what was posted.[/QUOTE]

i dont use 'lol'. is that obligatory now?

you cant live your life worried you might have an opinion or a remark that might offend somebody somewhere or you'd be too worried about saying anything.
i still think 20 stone is too heavy for a 15hand horse.
thats my opinion and it it offends you then im really sorry but there it is.


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## Welshie Squisher (15 January 2012)

Does he ride 15hh horses


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## lula (15 January 2012)

Fantasy_World said:



			Just a question, where do one's legs sit when seated on a horse. Personally I ride with mine tucked up my neatly formed bottom lol
		
Click to expand...

is this an example of your 'excellent sense of humor'?


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## tallyho! (15 January 2012)

katwin said:



			I have recently found out that someone who I know weighs about 20 stone. She has a 15hh full irish draught. I believe she is too heavy for it. Should I drop suttle hints or leave it be?
		
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Subtle?? 

Hahahahaha..... look love, if horse hasn't keeled over yet, don't worry about it - plenty of horses n donkeys carry more than that without food or water and live for a few days.....


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## Fantasy_World (15 January 2012)

Starbucks said:



			Maybe because there are a lot of fat people who are riding horses who are too small for them?

Most people who ask are not too big at all, because they have the sense and respect for their horse that they actually think about these things. Some people however, do not.
		
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Now this I wholeheartedly agree with.
Nothing wrong with being overweight and riding so long as you are riding something that can comfortably carry you. I think there are lot of misconceptions about horses and weight carrying, both from those who are not obese to those who are.
Finding a suitable horse is a must and in some cases a tall horse medium/heavyweight horse may not be not be as suitable for someone than one which is smaller in height but built like a tank.


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## Fantasy_World (15 January 2012)

lula said:



			is this an example of your 'excellent sense of humor'?
		
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Yes couldn't you guess as my ass will comfortably hide my legs lol


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## Starbucks (15 January 2012)

Fantasy_World said:



			Now this I wholeheartedly agree with.
Nothing wrong with being overweight and riding so long as you are riding something that can comfortably carry you. I think there are lot of misconceptions about horses and weight carrying, both from those who are not obese to those who are.
Finding a suitable horse is a must and in some cases a tall horse medium/heavyweight horse may not be not be as suitable for someone than one which is smaller in height but built like a tank.
		
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Although ID's are fairly chunky monkeys I wouldn't quite say tank like though, would you?

I'm a small person with a big horse so maybe have a different view on things, but if I were to put on weight I'd be seriously considering what I should and shouldn't be riding. For me personally, if I got above about 12 stone I probably wouldn't ride, I'd be too much of a lump of fat to be fair on any horse.


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## cassie summers (15 January 2012)

Starbucks said:



			Although ID's are fairly chunky monkeys I wouldn't quite say tank like though, would you?

 if I got above about 12 stone I probably wouldn't ride, I'd be too much of a lump of fat to be fair on any horse.
		
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oh dear i think half of us should give up then what do you think people like Geoff Billington weigh to name but one


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## Starbucks (15 January 2012)

cassie summers said:



			oh dear i think half of us should give up then what do you think people like Geoff Billington weigh to name but one
		
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I said for me personally.  If I had an extra 3 stone of lard hanging around I don't think I'd ride right, that's just me and what I'm comfortable with.  My OH is 6'3'' and 15 stone and I'd be happy for him to ride my horse (16.3 ISH) but that's different to me riding him at 15 stone IMO.

As for Geoff Billington, I think he's fab and a great rider, but sure he'd do better if he lost a few pounds!


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## Cinnamontoast (15 January 2012)

Alphamare said:



			Just to point out, those drum horses in the army carry a man plus two 90-100lb drums!
		
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Fantasy_World said:



			So just to answer one of my questions for the record what do horses in the Household Cavalry for example carry during work and training?
Excluding the weight of the rider, saddle and other dress code worn by horse and rider a pair of drums alone weigh 9 stone 10lbs. Do most regimental riders weigh far less than 10 stone then? I think not
		
Click to expand...

Anybody know? And a knight in armour? What the heck kind of horse did they ride?!



cassie summers said:



			oh dear i think half of us should give up then what do you think people like Geoff Billington weigh to name but one
		
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Geoff Billington is very short to my recollection-he may be chunky, but having seen him at YHL, he looked tiny on all the horses he rode! 

As a bigger girl, I waited til I was under the RS limit to have lessons. Should I sell my 15hh, 10 inch of bone cob and buy a tank instead?   

I think you have to take into acorn also what the horse/rider are doing. I wouldn't take my horse XC, but light hacking and schooling won't hurt, IMO.


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## The-mad-cat-lady (15 January 2012)

He's a lard ass 
He would agree too!


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## Welshie Squisher (15 January 2012)

Cinammontoast - you mention you waited until you were under the RS limit prior to having lessons. Why do they need a limit?

To answer your question, no you shouldn't sell your horse.
BUT, we as horse owners have a responsibility to ensure that our horses are carrying a weight they are comfortable with, one that is not detrimental to their health.
So for me, that means loosing weight.
I have no idea in your case.

Comparing horses of the past really is a poor argument, horses were working animals, and once their working life was over they generally ceased to exist. Life spans weren't as great as today, they were worked hard, and were knackered at a much younger age.
A bit like show jumpers jumped into the ground and knackered by 12! 
We frown at this, why not a horse ruined by excess weight and its back being ruined in the long term?


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## Starbucks (15 January 2012)

Welshie Squisher said:



			Cinammontoast - you mention you waited until you were under the RS limit prior to having lessons. Why do they need a limit?

To answer your question, no you shouldn't sell your horse.
BUT, we as horse owners have a responsibility to ensure that our horses are carrying a weight they are comfortable with, one that is not detrimental to their health.
So for me, that means loosing weight.
I have no idea in your case.

Comparing horses of the past really is a poor argument, horses were working animals, and once their working life was over they generally ceased to exist. Life spans weren't as great as today, they were worked hard, and were knackered at a much younger age.
A bit like show jumpers jumped into the ground and knackered by 12! 
We frown at this, why not a horse ruined by excess weight and its back being ruined in the long term?
		
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Exactly - have people seen War Horse? I know it's a bit far fetched but horses were seen as a tool back in the day.  They can put up with a lot but do we really want them to put up with stuff for recreational use? :-\


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## Wagtail (15 January 2012)

Fantasy_World said:



			So just to answer one of my questions for the record what do horses in the Household Cavalry for example carry during work and training?
Excluding the weight of the rider, saddle and other dress code worn by horse and rider a pair of drums alone weigh 9 stone 10lbs. Do most regimental riders weigh far less than 10 stone then? I think not
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I know, and they used to go to battle too, and the little pit ponies used to go down mines, and those donkeys carry 15 stone tourists up the side of mountains. Oh yes and can't Dartmoors carry a stone a hand? That means a ten hand pony can carry ten stone...


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## JFTDWS (15 January 2012)

Welshie Squisher said:



			Comparing horses of the past really is a poor argument, horses were working animals, and once their working life was over they generally ceased to exist. Life spans weren't as great as today, they were worked hard, _and were knackered at a much younger age._

Click to expand...

Do you have any evidence of this?

I've just googeld Copenhagen and Marengo - albeit later than suit of armour warfare - but hard working battle horses ridden by men - Copenhagen was late 20s when he died, Marengo in his 30s.  (Obviously that's a very select 2, but they were the first two I looked up)


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## The-mad-cat-lady (15 January 2012)

Lets do a test..
Would anyone with a 15hh  horse please find a 20st person and  heave then on to your horse and pkease


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## The-mad-cat-lady (15 January 2012)

Report back !!!!!


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## JFTDWS (15 January 2012)

I have a 15hh horse.  Shall I start on the pies and test it for you?


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## The-mad-cat-lady (15 January 2012)

Yes please ! 
Or find a lard arse ...


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## JFTDWS (15 January 2012)

I don't know any 20 stone people... How many pies would I have to eat to put on 8.5 stone?  It may take a few days...  Unless I kidnap someone from weightwatchers?  Or disneyland?


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## dafthoss (15 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			I don't know any 20 stone people... How many pies would I have to eat to put on 8.5 stone?  It may take a few days...  Unless I kidnap someone from weightwatchers?  Or disneyland? 

Click to expand...

I'll sit on him with you


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## Tadah (15 January 2012)

I have a 15.1 cob, built like a brick outhouse, short wide backed, short cannon's and 10 1/2 inches of bone. I am not the lightest person in the world by any stretch, with tack about 15 1/2 stone. I haven't been riding for long but I am fairly well balanced and I do my best to "ride light" My horse carry's me just fine, we are happy hackers and we toddle around very happily, however my husband decided he wanted to learn to ride in the summer, he was 18 stone. I thought he was too big but my riding instructor kept telling me he was fine, stop worrying. For first month my horse seemed ok, only an hours lesson a week, but when hubby started to learn to trot, even though my horse never tried to get him off, had the patience of a saint and did his best, when I rode him afterwards he just felt different to me. I got a back specialist out and all the muscles in his shoulders and back were bruised and sore. I had to give him 8 weeks off to get him right, he is fine now thankfully. However my horse showed no outward signs of struggling and being in pain, even though he was struggling.

I am on a diet now, even though I know I am not to heavy for him at the moment, I just feel it's the responsible thing to do for my horse, I don't want his back ruined, I want us to be happy hackers for years. I had his back checked again recently and he is fine.

I don't think heavy people shouldn't ride, I just believe that the choice of horse should be suitable for their size/height and build and that they regularly check their horse backs for problems, though that should be true of any rider.

Oh and I sacked my riding instructor !!!


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## JFTDWS (15 January 2012)

dafthoss said:



			I'll sit on him with you 

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perfect - I didn't fancy all those pies anyway


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## dafthoss (15 January 2012)

Ok I'm back next weekend then we can report back and let every one know if J colapsed


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## The-mad-cat-lady (15 January 2012)

Thank you ladies...
If you are serious about this. Challenge ....
Please don't ride through the drive through.....


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## happyhacking:) (16 January 2012)

tell you what ive got the osteopath coming tomorrow pm. i'll ask him for you all shall I? I will ask him (again) whether how much weight my 13.2 mare is capable of carrying. I think I already know the answer he will give though


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## FionaM12 (16 January 2012)

I'm confused by people saying a woman of 20 stone can be fit and healthy. If you consult a doctor about your weight, he/she will advise you that a healthy BMI (body mass index) is between 18 and 25.

If a person is six foot tall and 20 stone, their BMI is 38. So a doctor would advise they are obese and at serious risk. That's not fattist or judgemental, that's just what current medical knowledge tells us.

Of course, if she's shorter than six foot, her BMI will be even higher.


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## Ladydragon (16 January 2012)

numptynoelle said:



			This is correct - especially cob geldings who can still exceed 45mph whilst in foal 

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Seriously... LMAO!! 



Welshie Squisher said:



			Bugbee717 - doesn't matter what you look like, 20 stone is 20 stone.

I am fat myself, and yes I can call myself fat. I refuse to kid myself, to justify being fat with a whole list of what I can do.
I'd rather concentrate on the list of what I can't do, and do something about it!

And riding my 13.3hh young pony is on the can't do list at present  

As I said in my previous post, of course those that are overweight for their horses will tell you their horses are fine, because to admit to being too heavy and continue riding shows little regard for the horse.

I stand by what I originally said and that is absolutely no horse should have to carry 20 stone, its just wrong, regardless of size or breed 

Click to expand...

Good post... 

I'm 2 1/2 stone overweight...  It's not rocket science why that is - a combination of diet choices, calories in vs calories out, fitness and exercise levels, maybe caring a bit less as I'm older...  Carrying the equivalent of nigh on 16 bags of sugar around unnecessarily though is definitely *not* healthy whatever argument/excuse I tried to use...

My father was mahoosive...  19 st on a good day but 6' 4" with a 64" chest and the overall build of an average barn...  He carted around far less excess sugar bags than me but still weighed considerably more...  I've got a 15.3, close coupled, stock type QH - arguably bred to hike hefty guys around and still have plenty of bounce...  If the horse was given the OK, I might have let Dad on for a gentle walk on soft ground - but certainly nothing more than a walk...  I just wouldn't have felt happy with the extra compression that would have occurred on the horse's joints/skeletal system with his weight on board...


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## Alphamare (16 January 2012)

Apparently the light brigade came in at around 21 stone with armour, tack, rider etc.


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## QueenOfCadence (16 January 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			I'm confused by people saying a woman of 20 stone can be fit and healthy. If you consult a doctor about your weight, he/she will advise you that a healthy BMI (body mass index) is between 18 and 25.

If a person is six foot tall and 20 stone, their BMI is 38. So a doctor would advise they are obese and at serious risk. That's not fattist or judgemental, that's just what current medical knowledge tells us.

Of course, if she's shorter than six foot, her BMI will be even higher.
		
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Hoozah . As I said before (not being judgemental - ot fattist, it's just the way it is) Horse Riding is a SPORT (unless you plan on being a happy hacker, which in that case - ride on), you CANNOT be a fat athlete. Have you EVER seen a fat Dancer? Or a fat high jumper? Or maybe a 20 stone sprinter??? It's not how it works. At 20 stone YOU are not fit (just like you can't be fit if you're underweight), your body's physical structure maintains the same structure when you pick up weight so you do not physically become bigger but your body needs to lug around all that extra mass. It's unhealthy to the point where they'll give you gastric bypass surgery - how can anyone of that weight be fit? I'm sorry - maybe a 20 stone body builder would be okay but I personally doubt this lady is 2 meters tall and a body builder

If she does infact just want to be a happy hacker (which is fine as well), she should get a suitable horse. A 15hh weight carrier might be able to carry quite a lot of weight - but definitely not 20 stone

As for looking back on how much the war horses use to carry, they also use to wear this bit





Shall we carry on with that as well while we're at it


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## Sheep (16 January 2012)

To go back to the OP, I do think that this lady is probably too big for this horse. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, it is an incredibly sensitive issue. I do feel sorry for her, and I think that deep down, a lot of larger people are unhappy with their size. But as this also takes into account the welfare of an animal, it becomes even more complicated.

How do you know she weighs 20 stone anyway? Did she tell you?


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## FionaM12 (16 January 2012)

Alphamare said:



			Apparently the light brigade came in at around 21 stone with armour, tack, rider etc.
		
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They were also malnourished, had an appallingly short life expectancy and mostly died dreadful violent deaths. 

So is that the standard we're setting for our horse care now? 



QueenOfCadence said:



			As for looking back on how much the war horses use to carry, they also use to wear this bit





Shall we carry on with that as well while we're at it

Click to expand...

Quite. Anyone know where I can buy one for Mollie?


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## scheherazade (16 January 2012)

QueenOfCadence said:



			Hoozah . As I said before (not being judgemental - ot fattist, it's just the way it is) Horse Riding is a SPORT (unless you plan on being a happy hacker, which in that case - ride on), you CANNOT be a fat athlete. Have you EVER seen a fat Dancer? Or a fat high jumper? Or maybe a 20 stone sprinter??? 

I have seen darts on Eurosport. Therefore it is a sport?!?!?! Thus, you CAN be a fat athlete!!!!! :O  

Click to expand...


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## QueenOfCadence (16 January 2012)

scheherazade said:





QueenOfCadence said:



			Hoozah . As I said before (not being judgemental - ot fattist, it's just the way it is) Horse Riding is a SPORT (unless you plan on being a happy hacker, which in that case - ride on), you CANNOT be a fat athlete. Have you EVER seen a fat Dancer? Or a fat high jumper? Or maybe a 20 stone sprinter??? 

I have seen darts on Eurosport. Therefore it is a sport?!?!?! Thus, you CAN be a fat athlete!!!!! :O  

Click to expand...

I've been proven wrong

Click to expand...


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## jenki13 (16 January 2012)

QueenOfCadence said:



			Hoozah . As I said before (not being judgemental - ot fattist, it's just the way it is) Horse Riding is a SPORT (unless you plan on being a happy hacker, which in that case - ride on), you CANNOT be a fat athlete. Have you EVER seen a fat Dancer? Or a fat high jumper? Or maybe a 20 stone sprinter??? It's not how it works. At 20 stone YOU are not fit (just like you can't be fit if you're underweight), your body's physical structure maintains the same structure when you pick up weight so you do not physically become bigger but your body needs to lug around all that extra mass. It's unhealthy to the point where they'll give you gastric bypass surgery - how can anyone of that weight be fit? I'm sorry - maybe a 20 stone body builder would be okay but I personally doubt this lady is 2 meters tall and a body builder
		
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Well you can get quite a few world class rugby players that weigh 19-20stone  But I wouldn't let them on my horse - I think it would just lie down lol.
(however the heaviest Women's rugby player is only just over 14 stone).

I reckon my horse (15.3hh TBxshire) could carry ~16 stone with tack, if the rider is balanced - my problem would be unbalanced rider weighing that much "thumping" down on her back. My dad used to hack her & is prob 13.5-14stone (inc. tack) & she quite happily tanked off with him in a field (he was out for a nice gentle Walk!). I must weigh-in at about 12-12.5stone with tack & I jump, school etc on her.  

With regards to the OP yes I would think that 20stone is too heavy for a 15hh horse. 
But how do you know she's 20stone? Did she tell you?


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## MerrySherryRider (16 January 2012)

Cob Boy is 15.1hh with 11'' of bone,when he was a fit 6 yr old, I asked the vet if he thought a lady of 18 stone was ok to ride him. Put on the spot, he thought a bit and replied as tactfully as he could that it was far from ideal but if she just wanted to tootle round the block on him occasionally, he'd probably manage.
 So I took that as a no.

Being obese does not make you a lesser person, but it does mean that you have a responsibility to put the horse's interests before your own. Fortunately, the heavy owners I know have done just that by staying off the horse and looking at options such as finding lighter rider,doing ground work, breaking to drive or selling.


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## MagicMelon (16 January 2012)

Too heavy but I dont think its anything to do with you to comment on it.  You telling her she's too big to ride her horse isn't going to make her suddenly realise and then flog the horse I doubt so its pointless.  Big shame for the horse but not much you can do.  Hopefully at that weight, she wont be doing too much cantering about / jumping etc. anyway.


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## JFTDWS (16 January 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			They were also malnourished, had an appallingly short life expectancy and mostly died dreadful violent deaths. 

So is that the standard we're setting for our horse care now? 

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The latter two factors relate to the nature of their job - whilst not an appealing end for any horse, it is hardly relevant to whether they were capable of carrying such weights (which they were) and whether carrying those weights would have had long term effects (which we can't judge without knowing whether they would have survived and been capable of working if not killed in combat).  If your first statement is true (and I couldn't comment), the most relevant comment is that even malnourished horses were capable of galloping into battle carrying 21 stone - though any long term effects remain unknown.

If you're going to put a weight limit on riding, your reasons should at least be sound and relevant


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## scarymare (16 January 2012)

I haven't read through the thread.  Yes, 20stone is too heavy to ride a 15 hand horse and in my opinion any other BUT its a balance.  If she is giving the horse a fantastic life, and it wants for nothing and has a home for life then perhaps let sleeping dogs lie.  I sold my 3 year old to someone too heavy by the book but have no regrets.  Probably one of the best cared for horses I know.  Horse landed on its feet and will cope with the weight I'm sure.


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## Wagtail (17 January 2012)

Honey08 said:



			It would be interesting to hear Janet George's opinion as she breeds IDs doesn't she.

I'm another one that thinks  that  there are many other features apart from size that effect the weight carrying capabilities of a horse - a horse with a short strong back would be better than a taller horse with a longer back.

I always thought that the ID was originally bred as a strong riding horse that could carry a farmer round the farm and pull a cart to market, so it should be up to some weight carrying really.  I also thought that they weren't over tall horses - so a 17.3h ID is probably not the best example of the breed, and perpaps not the strongest as it is "overgrown", for want of a better word, sorry Wagtail, don't mean to insult your ID, I was just suprised to read of one so tall!
		
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Yes, I know. He was a good hand taller than others I have known. But then you sometimes get 18hh TBs and they are usually 15.2 - 16.2 hh so not unheard of.


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## QueenOfCadence (17 January 2012)

Wagtail said:



			Yes, I know. He was a good hand taller than others I have known. But then you sometimes get 18hh TBs and they are usually 15.2 - 16.2 hh so not unheard of.
		
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I know a WB out of Donnerwetter mare and sired by a Rohdiamant descendent (both his parents were above 16hh) - he's 14.3hh . Flukes happen with breed standards I suppose


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