# CS and Fig competition update!



## nikkimariet (24 March 2014)

So, having qual for the PSG regionals with relative ease, Pea has now stepped up to Inter 1.

We pencilled in Keysoe for our debut - its a lovely venue with super surfaces and they didnt let us down. Fantastic organisation as usual  

Having never ridden this test at a show before, and knowing how different it always is compared to at home, I was expecting it to be more of a schooling outing and true to form, I made some fairly large lemon-like errors! Unusually for him he went very buzzy in the ring and more or less totally ran off with me in the ext canter lol and then the next time off that corner tried to do the same Shame we should have been collecting for a piri! I then over whoad and over half halted and we ground to a stop so had to circle but did manage to do 2 sweet enough piris once we had got our act together!

I then got rather carried away in the 2s and did 9 instead of 7, doh so threw marks away for no good reason (albeit nice to know we can do 9 lol!). With 2 very tough judges the resulting 55% was fair enough and I couldnt wait to get out and have another go!

So off we trundled to Abbey Dressage on Sat for a take 2..

He warmed up really well, much more uphill and connected than at Keysoe. Despite an apocalyptic hail storm just before we went in (it has been a weekend of totally barmy weather!).

Perhaps pay back for my total muddle at Keysoe, but he really threw the towel in and ruined what could have been a very nice test - the positives outweigh the negatives but still, I could throttle the little git quite cheerfully.

Postives:

Stayed in front of the leg 90% of the time
Never thought about rearing in the piris
Didnt bog off in the ex canter
I can count to 7 (yay!)
Got better marks for his ext trot than normal so hard work paying off there
Got a 7 for his harder trot HP, finally!

Negatives:

Decided I needed a refresher course in Velcro pant useage and for absolutely no damn reason that I can see, humped at my leg in the 8m circle and then exploded in the trot HP right (the easy way, argh).

Decided after that that right HP was a no go and thus had to circle twice before the zig zag, kicking and swearing as he humped along doing snake head and threatening to drop me on my head.

I put my hand up at the end but even giving myself a 6 in place of the 0/1/2s I would have got 65.something%. I could have screamed (internally I was!)....










































I literally do not know what the hell got in to him. Clearly he decided that my left leg was not acceptable, but is it just him being a sod or pain? Having done a course of gastroguard with no improvement, worked my way through 4/5 diff ulcer supps with also no real improvement except the Egusin, moved on to Equishure and now started on gastro plus with no improvement. I feel like Im banging my head on a brick wall.

He is managed as an ulcer horse and clearly his stomach is/was sensitive but at what point do we tick this off the list? He trots up sound as a pound after flexion, is level on a tiny circle and at home and in the warm up finds the HP right easier!

He is being VERY aggressive in the stable atm, rug changing is like dressing a shark and hes taken a swing for me and NMT over the door a few times too. Clearly *something* is up - but what? He is quite colty generally year round, and spring is in the air, could it be that simple? He looks really well in himself, is keen to come in and work and his work at home is lovely, barely any antics.

Infuriating creature, my head hurts from thinking about him! Although in reality - why am I surprised? We seem to go through this every time we go up a level, everyone is convinced hes in agonizing pain and mental torture, and then one day he just shrugs it off and settles?

A good friend and GP rider is coming to have a sit on him on wed, shes confident she can help sort him out thank god! And then we might go out for another try, depending on her diagnosis. And then the winters, where hopefully the safety zone of the PSG will lull him in to keeping all 4 feet on the ground


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## nikkimariet (24 March 2014)

So, yesterday Mr Fig went to Elms Farm for M73 and M75. The weather scheduled to be moderately hideous, and true to form, there was an apocalyptic cloud looming upon arrival!

Brought him out for a first whizz round, and he was very tight over the back as there was quite a lot going on. Really bouncing and not stepping through; just worked him through it, asking gently for some steepish SI and traver in canter on a circle. Tried to be really soft with my hands so he didn&#8217;t feel pinned down, but really worked on getting him wrapped around my leg. Did some large working piris to make him sit behind and use his hips. After about 20 mins he just seemed to breathe out and relax. So a light seat canter round and lots of pats, and put him away.

We came back out to an imminent hail storm, thankfully the wind blew it the other day for a while! He didn&#8217;t take much working in this time, and was soft and waiting quite quickly. I watched a Dan Greenwood vid on Horse Hero a little while back (think the horse was Luca, lovely boy!), and he does on and back in the trot (using give and retakes too) but stays rising. I&#8217;ve been doing this with Fig and found it really helps because he HAS to wait on my seat and my rhythm, and not just pull my arms down his neck and brace his back against me.

Up into the canter; must NOT throw the contact away into the upwards transition. Otherwise I spend 2 strides with him flat and 2 more strides getting him up in the poll. Strangely enough, he sits more when I hold up my end of the bargain too  Back to the working piris, but making them tighter this time. 2 steps of piri and 2 steps forward, 2 steps of piri and 2 steps forward. Outside hand brings the shoulder round, inside leg keeps him stepping under and over.

I&#8217;m super impressed with his warm up as a whole; we&#8217;re getting the work we get at home now. I don&#8217;t need to baby him through it and I can run through the movements from the off rather than building up to them.

Into the test. It started off well... And there are a LOT of positives to be taken from it. He tried to wiggle his quarters over coming up the centre line post canter HP and I said nooo you don&#8217;t so he bucked, bucked again, changed leg twice and then slammed his shoulder down. Off we went quite sweetly. Then he tried to do the same thing coming cross the short diag corner to middle mark (canter walk canter) but went to go humping across doing mad tempis, so I brought him to a halt and tried again. He popped up into canter sweetly enough :shrugs: He&#8217;s a big boy now and has got to accept that I expect him to behave like a big boy in the ring! Pleased with the general tempo and rhythm and I&#8217;m starting to use my corners and markers better 

Took him back into the warm up and did some really steep :youwillnotkickatmyleg: SI to travers with him, and he seemed happy enough to do that. Clever boy then did some really lovely HP to CC to simple change (must NOT throw that contact away, argh!). Showed off some lovely collected trot to passage transitions, and then worked on some mediums in rising trot as per JLC. He&#8217;s not a huge fan of the warm up surface (can be a little deep) so didn&#8217;t push them too hard (didn&#8217;t practice before the first test and got a 6.5 for both!). Perversely (considering he isn&#8217;t bred/built for this) he finds the long diagonals easiest, like he has more room to get into a rhythm?

Went in for M75 after a casual hail storm:







Remembered to canter in! Looking at the video (which I am desperately going to try and upload, come on internet!) I am SO pleased with how he looks - 99% of the time uphill and moving UP through the shoulder, can really see this in circles/corners. 

We had, as per the first test, a few bobbles. He tried to shove his head up going into the rein back, so I halted, asked for round and then tried again. Perfect! Gave him a little pat as we moved off - the rein back itself was very nice  Then the walk... The moment we turned across the diag: chomp chomp chomp and 2 jogs as soon as I put my leg on for extended. So nearly halted, brought him round (and far too deep for the movement to get a decent mark), and then asked him to lengthen the frame again. Fine! Second half really nice! Little booger lol! It&#8217;s (the walk) always the first thing to go with him, and I think it&#8217;s the anticipation of the walk piri&#8217;s (which are coming along nicely and think we got 6.5&#8217;s/7&#8217;s for). Can see in vid where I&#8217;m still not riding the med canters enough and I lost the canter HP rhythm (but kept the angle!).





































Scores: an expected 63.38 in M73 and a disappointing 63.64 in M75. I know this judge is tough but really expected a big diff between the 2 tests. I was however 1st out of a grand total of 2 people (by a good few %) in the first, and 1st out of a massive 3 people (by a good few % again). And we&#8217;ve somehow in not very many outings managed to qualify at Medium Restricted for the Regionals! Wasn&#8217;t my intention, but nice to know that even as a total newbie at this level (for both of us) we can do it! 2 more Area Festival sheets though which is ace. Looking at the individual marks our general trot and canter work got 7&#8217;s and 7.5&#8217;s from this judge, but the tension really let us down with a string of 2 3 and 4&#8217;s in both tests (and a 0 for the simple change we didn&#8217;t do!), which then affected our collectives.

Had a call this morning, my new saddle tree is FINALLY here! Should have it back by Fri! Eek, BD Winters are our next stop!!!!


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## glamourpuss (24 March 2014)

Oh PS my heart does go out to you, you work so hard with that bloomin' 'oss of yours & sometimes he's just an ungrateful little git! I do have to admire your tenacity...I sobbed like a baby & threatened to give up horses after having to retire at a BE90 last season yet you find the positive & find a way of tackling the negative. So many would've given up Pea by now! Good for you! 
I'm not going to insult you in any way by suggesting there is anything in your management causing his behaviour because I can't honestly see how there can be!!!! 
Fig looks & sounds to becoming more & more grown up with every outing. You must be soooo pleased with him


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## cobwithattitude (24 March 2014)

glamourpuss said:



			Oh PS my heart does go out to you, you work so hard with that bloomin' 'oss of yours & sometimes he's just an ungrateful little git! I do have to admire your tenacity...I sobbed like a baby & threatened to give up horses after having to retire at a BE90 last season yet you find the positive & find a way of tackling the negative. So many would've given up Pea by now! Good for you! 
I'm not going to insult you in any way by suggesting there is anything in your management causing his behaviour because I can't honestly see how there can be!!!! 
Fig looks & sounds to becoming more & more grown up with every outing. You must be soooo pleased with him 

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Agree with everything here - and spring is arriving too...well, kind of!  Well done and how do you always have your sheepskin looking SO fluffy?


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## j1ffy (24 March 2014)

You two know your horses better than anyone, so I'm probably not much help!  I was lurking on here the other day and saw Catembi saying something about her horse's ulcers, may be worth a read?  (Reminds me that I must go and comment after my lurking ).

They both look fab in the pics and I love how you both always draw out the positives and reflect on the learnings.


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## nikkimariet (24 March 2014)

glamourpuss said:



			Oh PS my heart does go out to you, you work so hard with that bloomin' 'oss of yours & sometimes he's just an ungrateful little git! I do have to admire your tenacity...I sobbed like a baby & threatened to give up horses after having to retire at a BE90 last season yet you find the positive & find a way of tackling the negative. So many would've given up Pea by now! Good for you! 
I'm not going to insult you in any way by suggesting there is anything in your management causing his behaviour because I can't honestly see how there can be!!!! 
Fig looks & sounds to becoming more & more grown up with every outing. You must be soooo pleased with him 

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Peaface is not in my good books either, he really doesn't know how lucky he is! Thanks re: Fig  I tried him on the equine science calmer cookies, and although he would only eat a few mouthfuls of feed with one crumbled in (so I had to gleefully syringe a half dose down his throat) he was much less buzzy than normal, easier to get in his head? So going to give the powder a go and PS going to try the cookies on CS 



cobwithattitude said:



			Agree with everything here - and spring is arriving too...well, kind of!  Well done and how do you always have your sheepskin looking SO fluffy?
		
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Oh spring is certainly here! Springs in Figs blummin heels!!!! Use a wire dog brush  And wash them as little as often, and when you do, handwash only and make sure you condition them too.



j1ffy said:



			You two know your horses better than anyone, so I'm probably not much help!  I was lurking on here the other day and saw Catembi saying something about her horse's ulcers, may be worth a read?  (Reminds me that I must go and comment after my lurking ).

They both look fab in the pics and I love how you both always draw out the positives and reflect on the learnings.
		
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Yes think PS had already spied that and has that on her list of things to do, thank you for thinking of us  

It's all part of the journey isn't it, and I know I do (and am sure PS does too) learn SO much from the slightly off days. But I do feel for her with that brute lol. He can do it, and do it well, so I don't get it. Wish they could talk


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## Pigeon (24 March 2014)

PS, it's just horses!!! They are such contrary beasts  Like you said, he has a little wobble going up a level then settles, perhaps that's all it is? I feel your pain - we have finally gotten on top of Pip's tension under saddle, and with impeccable timing, he's decided he WILL NOT travel any more, and started flinging himself about even when we're only doing 4mph. Neurotic animals. If it's any comfort he looks absolutely fantastic in the photos! I was watching the vids of him on facebook the other day and gawping. You really have done such an amazing job! 

Fig is SUCH a dude! Love the hailstones pic.


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## amage (24 March 2014)

Random idea....have you blood tested him for hormone levels??


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## vic07 (24 March 2014)

Would jumping between the levels when you upgrade help? Eg inter back to psg before another inter.  It's what I'd do eventing to keep the confidence!


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## Supanova (24 March 2014)

amage said:



			Random idea....have you blood tested him for hormone levels??
		
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Was just thinking this myself!  Pea sounds like a hormonal mare...........despite the fact he is a gelding!


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (24 March 2014)

thank you everyone, really thank you for being so supportive. I was too utterly flummoxed to cry on sat, but i have shed a few tears since then. Its not just the doing it, its the him being happy too and i SO thought we had got it more or less nailed 

i am giving him until the trial of gastro plus runs out and the will try him on catembi's stuff and then on aloeride and if not joy, will re-build my wall and bang away.



amage said:



			Random idea....have you blood tested him for hormone levels??
		
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spookily i was thinking the same thing earlier, i presume you mean in case he is a rig? vet is coming to jab him soon so was going to get him to do another lameness check at same time and am going to also ask him to draw bloods for hormones too, thank you.



vic07 said:



			Would jumping between the levels when you upgrade help? Eg inter back to psg before another inter.  It's what I'd do eventing to keep the confidence!
		
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honestly i really dont know if its that simple with him or not, if it was the 2's, or the full piris, or the zig zag upsetting him, i would say yes. But circle to HP is in med/adv med/adv/psg so no idea? If he hadnt gone skyward in the trot HP the first zig of the zig zag would have been ok is my gut feeling. Will see what friend says on wed, and then decide if/when/what level we do prior to winters or if we just go and do the psg at the winters with no more runs before that.


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## fusspot (24 March 2014)

My boy had the Gastroplus and it did work for him-Have to say that it took a good two weeks to get really working and he was also better on two scoops a day-I put him on the two as advised by them for a week and then dropped to 1 scoop but just found him better on the two a day.The course lasted about 3 1/2 weeks even this way.Mine is always worse to the right and quite humpy to my leg when it's his stomach so knew exactly when it was working correctly.He has gone onto the stomach maintenance with Calmer from them after finishing the Gastroplus and I have to say is even better,can get straight on,no problems right and a pleasure and much more laid back.Not sure how long yours has been on it but would try and persevere with it an maybe consider keeping dose up or up dose day before and day of comp which they advised me to do.Good Luck and lovely horses.


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## shortstuff99 (24 March 2014)

I know its really hard to not to, but I wouldn't get too dissheartened by it. If he is doing all of the work okay at home but not out then it could be more of a stage fright issue or a physical issue that manifests itself from tension/stress? also as it is a test environment does he think he can get away with saying 'no'? Rather than at home where he knows he can't get away with it?

As an aside I warmed up with you at Keysoe and I think he looks even more hench in real life!. (I was on the bright bay with the red ribbon, not the kind-of out of control bay, I kept trying to stay out of peoples way and think that made me more in people's way! D'oh!).


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## Casey76 (24 March 2014)

I'm sorry I don't know the full story of your ulcer problems, but have you thought about hind gut ulcers, rather than stomach ulcers? They can produce the same type of symptoms, but can't be treated with gastroguard - they need something different, which at the moment completely escapes me.

Sorry, I'm being completely vague and probably not much help - but it might be something to think about?

Other than that, both boys look gorgeous


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## amage (24 March 2014)

Not so much a rig test more a broad spectrum hormone test...when you take into account the mood changes, the gut issues, being colty, reaction to pressure, explosiveness....he kinda sounds like the vile pmt that humans can get with thyroid issues? While being a rig could also be an issue I did just wonder is it more a pituitary hormone issue


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## Mince Pie (24 March 2014)

Casey76 said:



			I'm sorry I don't know the full story of your ulcer problems, but have you thought about hind gut ulcers, rather than stomach ulcers? They can produce the same type of symptoms, but can't be treated with gastroguard - they need something different, which at the moment completely escapes me.
		
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Omeprazole?

PS, he's a sod when he wants to be isn't he  However look how far you guys have come over the years, I think that perhaps because the explosions and "**** you" moments are happening less often it's worse when they do?
NMT sounds like you have a few positives to take away as well, and Fig is looking great. You also seem to be sitting a lot taller?


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## nikkimariet (24 March 2014)

amage said:



			Not so much a rig test more a broad spectrum hormone test...when you take into account the mood changes, the gut issues, being colty, reaction to pressure, explosiveness....he kinda sounds like the vile pmt that humans can get with thyroid issues? While being a rig could also be an issue I did just wonder is it more a pituitary hormone issue
		
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This was my thinking too, it really fits with the mood swings and stress reactions?


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## wench (24 March 2014)

I used a supplement called aquacid on my ex racer, would highly recommend it


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## nikkimariet (24 March 2014)

shortstuff99 said:



			As an aside I warmed up with you at Keysoe and I think he looks even more hench in real life!. (I was on the bright bay with the red ribbon, not the kind-of out of control bay, I kept trying to stay out of peoples way and think that made me more in people's way! D'oh!).
		
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Lol!!!! I know which one you were 



Broke_But_Happy said:



			NMT sounds like you have a few positives to take away as well, and Fig is looking great. You also seem to be sitting a lot taller?
		
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Ahh thank you  I'm trying SO hard to sit up straight, esp in canter. Where I tip forward. On any horse. In any saddle!!!! It's a defence mechanism for my poor creaky hips, but I've actually been feeling quite strong recently. Swimming has def helped get me stronger and fitter  My shoulders and neck are not so good at the moment (I feel like I have kissing spines!), but I'm due a physio and chiropractic biff next week so be sorted in time for Hartpury!


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## shortstuff99 (24 March 2014)

nikkimariet said:



			Lol!!!! I know which one you were 

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Hopefully in a good way


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## nikkimariet (24 March 2014)

shortstuff99 said:



			Hopefully in a good way 

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Yes! Think you did well in a busy warm up with a few... less than well controlled horses...!


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## JFTDWS (24 March 2014)

They look a million dollars.

Clearly I have nothing useful or interesting to say, but they do


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## Fools Motto (24 March 2014)

He does sound hormonal! (It would be easier if he was a mare!!) I'd def get some bloods done and go from there.
All the best, meanwhile I've got a rugged up shark image in my head......!!!!!


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## HayleyUK (24 March 2014)

PS - wondering, does Pea do this at home? Or is it purely in the ring?


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## shortstuff99 (24 March 2014)

nikkimariet said:



			Yes! Think you did well in a busy warm up with a few... less than well controlled horses...!
		
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Yes I was really pleased with her as she no longer finds warm-ups so stressful! Tests can still be a bit hit or miss though but that is getting better now too


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (24 March 2014)

Ok  have left a message for vet to call me to chat .

Hayley, he does it at home too but there's no particular move/ place that sets it off.


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## HayleyUK (24 March 2014)

Could it be worth looking for a pattern in the exact seconds before he does it?

If he's doing it at home on a fairly regular basis then it's possibly not ring/atmosphere related - even if this makes it worse? Could it be something in his head -  brain tiredness/uncertainty maybe?


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (25 March 2014)

There's no pattern as such, some days he will piaffe fine and then tell me to swivel in a walk/ canter for eg and other days a walk to trot might set him off, or a HP, or anything g really.
It's obv all related to him dropping behind the leg but he's like a ninja eel- one second up to the hand bobbing along fine and the next, bang.....if I feel it coming I've got seconds to make the call on whether to style it out ( like in the addington vid) or try and contain it, or ride out of it and again,no real pattern to what makes it worse or better the next time.

He was ok tonight but very much threatening me and thus we did have words about the HP and then he was very jolly and forward. Wish I could explain to him that a little bit more effort initially would avoid the argument!


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## Booboos (25 March 2014)

Little monkey CS! I appreciate how disheartening this is for PS, but keep thinking back to how far he has come. You've had similar discussions about his 'attitude' when he was competing at the lower levels, when he was having problems with the piris and now with the higher demands, so it could well be that he always has this little bleep going moving on with his work that you have to work through. Your plan of adjusting your competition schedule and playing around with the different levels seems to have worked before so perhaps it's something he just needs (pressure on, pressure off kind of thing).

No harm in getting his hormones checked.

Have you ever tried talking to Malcolm at Equifeast? He's quite knowledgeable and may have some suggestions for supplements worth trying.


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## dressagecrazy (25 March 2014)

If it is hormonal then you could try No Moody No from Pegusus Health it's a strong tincture of Chasteberry but not that expensive. The trouble with testing is if he did have PPID then it would be awful as the only drug able to help is Prascend & that it illegal for competition rediculously.
But dont panic he's young!!

Stupid question but is there any chance he could be a rig??

Regarding the ulcers the only stuff i have ever found to work is Gastro G from superfix it's amazing stuff, not cheap but it kept one of mine ulcer free after being on Gastogard for 15 months. I swear by the stuff, unfortunately i lost the horse i used to use this on but i wouldnt have any hesitation of using this stuff again over Gastrogard.


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## milliepops (25 March 2014)

Fab pics as always both of you... shame about the whoopsie and gutted we missed you at Abbey, PS!  Saw your name up on the score board on the Sunday and wondered what had happened :/  Will be along to watch at Hartpury as so local


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (25 March 2014)

cool, see you there 

thanks for the reccomendation re the gastro g, something else to look in to xxxxx


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## Jenni_ (25 March 2014)

Nothing useful to add re: his piggish behaviour other than he is a Pig. Albeit a rather clean, good looking one. But he's a top pig. 

Hope you get to the bottom of it, or that he grows out of it at this level. 

Both looking scrummy as always, and I think those scores will be easy for you two to beat next time anyway! xxx


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (25 March 2014)

vet booked for 14th April as he needs his jabs around then but would pref to have them AFTER the winters as he can get sore/stiff from it (even between front legs).

i suppose no point panicking to get the blood test done sooner(and thus add another call out fee on to it already) as whatever could be wrong, has been wrong a long time if it IS hormonal.

it would be an easy, albeit expensive, cure, if he was a rig i guess.

he's on easy transition work tonight anyway so will see how he feels.


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## nikkimariet (25 March 2014)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			it would be an easy, albeit expensive, cure, if he was a rig i guess.
		
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Thank the LORD he's never been turned out with a mare


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## spookypony (25 March 2014)

I'm now imagining a ninja-eel-shark in a bling fleece. This image isn't completely making sense to me as yet. 

I'm sure this obstacle, like others before it, will be overcome.


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## joycec (26 March 2014)

Does he do the same in a snaffle? I don't know his full history (I know he's an ex racer), so sorry if that already been ruled out.

I hope you can get him sorted, you were doing so well.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (26 March 2014)

yes, exactly the same in a snaffle 

he was absolutely horrendous last night,napping in to the corners, pushing me up against the fence and then refusing to move/threatening to explode if asked to move.

he started a new ulcer supp last thur and i suspect its not helping him/is actually making things worse so we have stopped that. It wouldnt be the first time that something that should on paper help, has actually upset him.

he did then give the game up and work nicely and never thought about doing it again-just did esy transitions etc.

i wish he could explain why we have to go through it only for him to then be foot perfect.


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## HufflyPuffly (26 March 2014)

I've had nothing to add so far expect they&#8217;re both so pretty and you do so well with them.

However it&#8217;s interesting that you have started a new ulcer supplement and he&#8217;s got worse. Do you think this could be the pattern? You try something new or make a subtle change and this is what upsets him? Whether it is a management change, asking more of him with the harder movements or the tests getting harder creating a bit more stress for him? Why did you change if you don&#8217;t mind me asking.

When the vet comes would it be worth re-scoping him to see what&#8217;s going on, or is his problem more in the hind gut? Sorry all this could be useless waffle, but you do so well persevering with him fingers crossed you get him figured out!

x x


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## Apercrumbie (26 March 2014)

How annoying that he's still being a little sod, I really admire you for sticking with it.  Congratulations with Fig too - it's amazing how much stronger he's getting.

Pea is obviously a rather sensitive horse, I was wondering if he is _literally_ sensitive.  What does his skin look like?  I'm only asking because of what you said about rug changing, it sounds like he could be a bit uncomfortable.  Kind of like when you have PMT and your pain threshold turns to zero and you get physically very sensitive.  Probably just one of the hundreds of things you will have heard saying "well have you tried this" but as he's suddenly got a lot worse, maybe the ulcer supplement isn't entirely agreeing with him.


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## bounce (26 March 2014)

Firstly, I have to say I really admire your determination and how far you have come with this horse.  I always think the trickier horses give you far more pleasure when things go right as you have had to work hard to get it and it feels a bigger achievement.

I haven't read all the threads so this has probably been looked at before but have you had his back x-rayed.  I can't help but notice similarities between him and my old boy who had kissing spines.  I treated him first for ulcers but I think they were just caused by the pain from his back.  He was also hyper sensitive and would react to virtually nothing.  He also didn't like rugs being changed and got to the point I could get a reaction from him just by putting a weight tape on him.  Might be worth just ticking it off the list for peace of mind.


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## charliejet (26 March 2014)

My horse has just had problems with her Sacroiliac Joint and had actually tipped her pelvis slightly.  She was sound on trot ups flexion tests etc but was showing signs of stress ridden and I just knew she wasnt quite right.  Got physio out thinking she had some tight muscles and she found pain in the stifle area, long story short I arranged for Vet to come out with a view to x raying stifle but he diagnosed the SI pain.  Her pelvis was only a few mm out but it has had a huge knock on effect on her body.  So even although he is sound a physical issue is still possible.  

Also in a lot of photos I see of him he has a lot of tension in his face even though he is performing very well, another issue that has just been picked up on my horse along side the SI probs (which are recent, she slipped in the field) is TMJ pain.  In hind sight this has been ongoing with mine for a while unfortunately but had never been picked up, worth looking into.

One more thing have you actually had him scoped to know what type or grade of ulcers he has, he may need antibiotics along with the GG?  He is such a beautiful horse I hope you can continue to help him.


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## nikkimariet (26 March 2014)

AlexHyde said:



			I've had nothing to add so far expect theyre both so pretty and you do so well with them.
		
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Apercrumbie said:



			Congratulations with Fig too - it's amazing how much stronger he's getting.
		
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Thank you 

I'll let PS chime in re: everyone's suggestions, but really appreciate your help guys!

We had our GP rider friend come over today. They were both super well behaved 

Homework is as follows:

Fig needs to be more softer, more supple, more elastic and more through in the back (which will enable him to be more expressive in his work). He is capable of holding tension in his back due to his nature, but whether this is also a throwback to his racings days who knows. Our recent saddle issues probably don't help but the good news is that my new headplate arrived and was fitted today and will be picked up tomorrow!!! Woohoo!!!!!

With Pea, it is the contact. Is the contact iffy because he is behind the leg? Or is he behind the leg because the contact is iffy? Chicken and egg situation. BUT PS needs to work on keeping 'a' contact at all times (except when he is belly flashing). It must be a consistent theme to his work, he must always be working into the hand. We can work on the quality at a later date.

They both have supplements to try, which will help with their general well being. So be interesting to see how they get on with those


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## skiltek0 (26 March 2014)

Stunning as always both of you! Fig looking like a totally different horse these days he's looking fab.
Where are your stocks from both of you? I'm after a decent quality one. Are they ready-tied?


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## nikkimariet (26 March 2014)

skiltek0 said:



			Stunning as always both of you! Fig looking like a totally different horse these days he's looking fab.
Where are your stocks from both of you? I'm after a decent quality one. Are they ready-tied? 

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Thanks  Both ready tied yep. Mine is from Flying Changes and PS got hers from Jax Designs.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (27 March 2014)

just a few things-the horse had been scoped and did have a KS work up as a 4/5yo. so a while ago but as th symptoms have decreased since then (ie rears less and is an easier ride) i would be suprised to suddenly find he is riddled with either.

that said, i am contemplating repeating both albeit i HATE the starvation period for scoping and think it can give a false positive result in its self.

Vet has already mentioned antibiotics for hind gut ulcers but i will discuss in greater detail in person 

He did exhibt some TMJ pain at his last but one appt with his *bodyworker* (i always shorten it to chiro but in reality she does muscles, nerves and joints!) but nothing awful. She worked on him and i have some manual flexions to do daily and it was nearly gone by his next appt.

The lesson yesterday was very interesting-trainer said he has learnt to give a very set selection of responses to my Q (ie go forward) and its almost liek hes half way through his *set* routine before ive even finished asking the Q.
My job is to present him with a slightly diff Q to get the desired response, that i can then praise the hell out of.
so when he slams to a halt,keep the contact at all costs and instead of just kicking forward against him kicking back at me, move the shoulder to make him step to the side-and praise. then ask for forward and if no joy, sideways, and praise etc.
make him think about his answer until the right response is habit i suppose.
she did say he's a tricky customer and that she didnt feel it was physical, he's big and strong and healthy etc.

so will see if this approach yields improvement over next few weeks. will still get bloods pulled as planned. and see where we are then.

the ulcer supp he started last week i def do not think helped and that has been knocked on the head


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## wench (27 March 2014)

Just out of interest have you had a thermal imaging scan done on him?


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (28 March 2014)

yes. showed nothing except a few very small muscular issues, nothing out of the ordinary for a horse in hard work.
again its something im willing to repeat if the vet thinks its worth it as its not that ££££.


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## charliejet (28 March 2014)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			yes. showed nothing except a few very small muscular issues, nothing out of the ordinary for a horse in hard work.
again its something im willing to repeat if the vet thinks its worth it as its not that ££££.
		
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This is something I am considering with mine after her treatments are finished to check for any lingering little hot spots.  I agree about the starvation for scoping, I wouldnt choose to scope unless it was really necessary either.  It can be so frustrating doing so much and not just quite getting it, but I am sure you will get it cracked.  Its these sensitive horses that we get the most from even if it is an emotional roller coaster ride!


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## doriangrey (28 March 2014)

How do you get a false positive with an endoscope?  Hind gut ulcers I can understand but not for stomach ulcers.  Granted, you might go through the starvation period only to find out that there are no ulcers (in the stomach at least) but at least you can then rule it out.


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## Twiglet (28 March 2014)

How is he normally in terms of 'rigginess' (for want of a better word)? There is definitely something in the air for the more 'hormone-tuned' types at the moment, and might explain why his opinions are stronger than ever ?

A friend took her gelding and and another livery's horse (who is known to pretty riggy and stallion like on occasion) out showjumping on Sunday - they got the ramp down to find her gelding totally mauled, bite marks all over head and neck, and a whacking haematoma on his hip - which we guess was him trying to get away. The two have travelled together regularly over the last couple of years, but the 'riggy' one decided that he didn't like it anymore. Is also a bit of an argumentative s0d under saddle - incredibly opinionated.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (28 March 2014)

he is normally quite *riggy*- he definately notices mares in the warm up etc albeit is not obviously upset by them, doesnt call or nap to them particularly but could not be trusted to be turned out with one!

handling wise he has always been prone to PITA outbursts either turning out (when he will nip at your elbow) or coming in when he will sometimes rear-he reminds me of badly behaved colts TBH, despite none of us taking any of his jive, and him being reprimanded and made to back away out our space. It doesnt escalate, he just persists in doing it every so often.


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## Twiglet (28 March 2014)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			he is normally quite *riggy*- he definately notices mares in the warm up etc albeit is not obviously upset by them, doesnt call or nap to them particularly but could not be trusted to be turned out with one!

handling wise he has always been prone to PITA outbursts either turning out (when he will nip at your elbow) or coming in when he will sometimes rear-he reminds me of badly behaved colts TBH, despite none of us taking any of his jive, and him being reprimanded and made to back away out our space. It doesnt escalate, he just persists in doing it every so often.
		
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Sounds quite colty, like you say. Is it worth trying Rigcalm or something along those lines? I think they're comp legal.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (28 March 2014)

tried rigcalm (as had some on yard for Brucey) it made no diff sadly which is annoying as it REALLY works on Bruce who is just friendly flirty, never nasty.

also tried agnust castus on its own which had zero impact too 

sorry to be defeatist, if anyone has another other reccomendation for rig supplements i would be willing to try them? is the valerian free natural horse supplies one any good?


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## glamourpuss (28 March 2014)

PS I don't know how you feel about this as I know he's expensive but have you considered asking Richard Maxwell to take a peek at him? He's done some body work on mine (which was amazing!) & he works v closely with my trainer & has had some amazing results with a very tricky horse. 
I can't remember where you are in the country (midlands?) but he does come to my trainer's yard here in Suffolk, I'm wondering if we could squeeze you in with him to make it a sensible cost?


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (28 March 2014)

Im Leics based and yes I would consider it.

The lesson we had on wed was based around Andrew McLean philosophies i think so i think my plan will probably be:

Continue with new methods as above until vet comes to take bloods (14th April with Jab)
If not improved at all even a smidge in that time i will try Catembi's OTC mix for ulcers whilst awaiting results.

If NOT a rig and no improvement at all from new drugs or new training and Vet has no no ideas, i will look at trying Richard. My only reservation about that would be that i know he will be able to send the horse forward on a loose contact, the problem arises when the horse has to sit and collect and work-im not sure how much RM will be able to adress the contact and whether the contact causes the tantrum or the tantrum upsets the contact etc?

I have zero experience with him personally though, what do you reckon?

EVERYONE who sees the horse, either close friends, pro's, or total strangers, seems to feel its behavioural rather than physical, i do feel im groping around in the dark a bit atm!!!!


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## joycec (28 March 2014)

Scrabbling around for ideas here, obviously, as you have already tried so many things.  Might he respond to a complete holiday for a month, or longer?

And was there nothing at all on the back xrays taken at 4/5 for the kissing spines work up you mentioned?

I hope the bloods will give you some answers, you must be totally frustrated by this behaviour.


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## Firewell (28 March 2014)

I haven't read all of the replies and you may do this already. Here where I am at my yard in Calif no one takes their competition horses out in the trailer without giving them ulcer guard a few days before the show and on the day of the show as they think even if no ulcers a little bit of stress can cause excess acid production and uncomfortableness. It is probably just the step up and a small dip in confidence at the new level but that could cause a physical stress reaction and if he does get prone to ulcers a few notches of ulcer guard on the run up to his next test could help?


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## MyBoyChe (28 March 2014)

Just having a read through this thread to catch up with your latest adventures  and thought Id just add my thoughts.  Im nowhere near as good a rider as you and would have long since cried off with such a tricky customer but have always thought he is an absolutely stunning looking horse, very stalliony (new word).  Do you know when he was gelded (sorry if youve already covered that).  He does look as if he has an attitude that could be quite colty and it wouldnt surprise me if that is quite a big part of his issues.  He just has that look on his face sometimes, the look of a horse that has a very definite mind of his own.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (29 March 2014)

joycec said:



			Scrabbling around for ideas here, obviously, as you have already tried so many things.  Might he respond to a complete holiday for a month, or longer?

And was there nothing at all on the back xrays taken at 4/5 for the kissing spines work up you mentioned?

I hope the bloods will give you some answers, you must be totally frustrated by this behaviour.
		
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 No nothing, not a hint of KS. He can't have a total holiday as he had locking stifles as a baby ( clear of OCD just ligament related) so needs to stay fit. He does get breaks during the year when I go on hol and NMT just does lots of field cantering to keep him sweet and ticking over. He does get more nappy the more days in a week he has off too !



Firewell said:



			I haven't read all of the replies and you may do this already. Here where I am at my yard in Calif no one takes their competition horses out in the trailer without giving them ulcer guard a few days before the show and on the day of the show as they think even if no ulcers a little bit of stress can cause excess acid production and uncomfortableness. It is probably just the step up and a small dip in confidence at the new level but that could cause a physical stress reaction and if he does get prone to ulcers a few notches of ulcer guard on the run up to his next test could help?
		
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Already do the same but it's a good thought, thanks for thinking about us  



MyBoyChe said:



			Just having a read through this thread to catch up with your latest adventures  and thought Id just add my thoughts.  Im nowhere near as good a rider as you and would have long since cried off with such a tricky customer but have always thought he is an absolutely stunning looking horse, very stalliony (new word).  Do you know when he was gelded (sorry if youve already covered that).  He does look as if he has an attitude that could be quite colty and it wouldnt surprise me if that is quite a big part of his issues.  He just has that look on his face sometimes, the look of a horse that has a very definite mind of his own.
		
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My completely none horsey OH said he looks " belligerent " which I think sums it up.
When I rode today I worked through the techniques we practiced on wed, namely that when he stops, he gets one polite reminder to move on and then if no joy I move the shoulder back and forth until his balance makes him step forward and then praise like mad. This gives him less excuse to rear ( albeit there will be times when he's rearing before he's really stopped and I'm not quick enough to stop those ones lol!) and my OH said that when he stops he looks totally at ease, just like " nope ta" but when I forced him to move the shoulder this turned in to a furious sulky brat expression........initially we literally went only 3/4 steps before he would stop and check the rules.....then once every 5minx, then only twice in 20mins. He was chewing and mouthing a lot( nice wet mouth, not drooling saliva) which I think is a good sigh, so we will see how he is mon. He's going for a jolly walk hack tomorrow as meant to be warm and still!

P.s thank you all. When this horse completes his first GP I will owe you all a lot and will have an oscars like speech ready lol! He really is the HHO project pony/ problem child!!!!


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## CBAnglo (30 March 2014)

Apologies if this has been covered in this or other threads but have you had a really good dentist come to see him?  I use a vet who is also an EDT and it has been a revelation in terms of readiness to accept the contact and move forward.  My regular vet admitted that he hates teeth as really they only do a half day at vet school (at least when he was at vet school) but an EDT can't sedate to get right in there.

For years I used an EDT who treated the horses nicely and the were mainly compliant with him.  I was recommended a vet in here (as couldn't get hold of the EDT) and he was amazing and I have been using him ever since every 6 months for the youngster.  He sedated them so he can get right in there - there is no point just fiddling about and I don't have a problem with sedation for treatment although I know some people might.

It's just a thought as one of mine showed signs of being a head shaker and would go up rather than forward.  Turned out as he was a baby he had gaps between his teeth which made accepting contact painful (he only ever liked working on a very long rein).  The food was getting trapped between the gums making them sensitive so new vet/dentist gave me a huge syringe to administer mouthwash and horse's teeth now moved into correct position so we don't have those arguments (he's a stubborn thing though so we do argue about other things).


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (30 March 2014)

Thank you. I do have complete faith in my EDT IMO he's one of the best, is much in demand world wide but I will ask the vet to have another look when he comes too so thanks, added to list


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## dominobrown (7 July 2014)

Just to put my 2 pence worth in...
-You are not producing him to sell are you?
... so I think you are always going to have 'write off' tests. He is probably never going to be a consistent horse. But, if you are not bothered by his record or trying to produce him to sell, then you might just have to accept it. 
I just think if he had a major problem physically you would of found it by now. I think its in his head, and some days he is just going to give you the finger and be a prat. Other days he decides he is a dressage horse. 
I know its hard but maybe you just need to take the pressure off yourself and accept that he is never going to be consistent, will keep you on your toes and one random day will pull a brilliant test out of nowhere. He seems to do it every
time you go up a level, try a different test and then one day decides to get over himself and get on with the job.
You do very well with him and he has a luxury life style. He is probably just like those people who don't realise how lucky he really is!


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (8 July 2014)

just to quickly reply (to what is quite an old thread now) but thank you for your thoughts-i suspect you are pretty much spot on.

He has done several tests in a row now at inter 1 with no probs-Keysoe Premier League, Addington Premier League, Vale View twice, Somerford premier League he was tense and too hot but not naughty so can count that too. He seems to have pretty much settled at the level and is producing some of the best work ever at home so i do tend to agree its a moving up thing and he will do it every time for a few months.

he is very settled and happy in the stable/field now too.

he will carry on doing inter 1 at area festivals in 2014, and then aim for inter 1 regionals in 2015. We will move up to inter 2 as soon as we have the 1's more consistently


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## Charmin (8 July 2014)

have you had the blood results back?


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