# Trim your own horses feet...



## Randonneuse (11 June 2011)

I am looking at learning how to trim my ponys feet myself (he is a 14hh gelding) and would like to know if anyone does it and who "taught" them? (any courses?)

It would only be to do my pony, no other horses so I think maybe it is not so hard once you have been taught by the right person?
My pony has been barefoot for about 5 years and I have been using a barefoot trimmer from the AANHCP for a year now (I had my pony in France before)

I am looking at someone who balances the foot for the horse to be ridden and if possible doing the wild horse trim.

Please CC only, I am not trying to start a debate as I just think a regular trim "tidy up" every week or so would be better than my barefoot trimmer coming every 6 to 12 weeks!  (I would still have my barefoot trimmer every few months to check I am doing it right)

Thanks a lot


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## tallyho! (12 June 2011)

I think it's a great idea! You should look up UKNHCP or EPAUK. Both do courses, lengthy and fairly expensive. Be prepared to do a lot of travelling!


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## Miss L Toe (12 June 2011)

Not sure what CC is please.
I am digesting Feet First (Nic Barker and Sarah Braithwaite) which is great, some light-bulb moments, but from that book, I learned that trimming should be minimal, no attempt to radically alter the natural growth pattern of the hoof, which has responded to the natural gait of the individual horse. I understand their thinking is that the diet and exercise regime are the two most important variables and the hoof trimming is a small, though important part of barefoot performance.
I believe there was a fad for extreme trimming ten years ago or so, some notorious cases involved prosecution.
I see no reason to change my own farrier, even though he tells me he already knows all about barefoot horses! He has the eye for detail that takes years to absorb, every foot needs to be individually balanced. I don't find I need to rasp very often (6/7 weeks) if my boy is out 24/7, and I hope that will be the same when he is in work, but I am prepared to adjust my exercise regime to the development of the foot. I did'nt expect to have to rasp every week, only if a chip develops.


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## Randonneuse (12 June 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Not sure what CC is please.
		
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Constructive comments  as I didn't want people to start an argument about barefoot and shod horses, trimmer and farrier 

Thanks both for your advice, tallyho! I can't afford lengthy and expensive courses this is why I am looking for a short course to learn how to trim only my ponys feet  (probably someone coming to teach me on my pony would be the best!)
I will ask my barefoot trimmer if she would consider teaching me and see what she says!


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## teddyt (12 June 2011)

Randonneuse said:



			Constructive comments   I can't afford lengthy and expensive courses this is why I am looking for a short course to learn how to trim only my ponys feet  (probably someone coming to teach me on my pony would be the best!)
		
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Sorry but i dont believe there is such a thing as a short course that would adequately equip someone with the skills, knowledge and experience to successfully trim a horses feet.


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## Headpiece (12 June 2011)

I tidy up my horses feet weekly, in between farrier visits, any small chips or breaks from going on tracks can be sorted instead of left to get bigger, a stitch in time and all that. Is that what you were thinking? I assume you have been watching the trimmer work on your horses feet? Why dont you try and ask them, or lengthen the time between visits, rasping yourself to keep them in trim between, it is harder than it looks.


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## teasle (12 June 2011)

If you are insured for vets fees please read your insurance companys small print first. I am insured with Stoneways, and it is in their terms and conditions that the horse is trimmmed or shod by a registered farrier.


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## Randonneuse (12 June 2011)

Headpiece said:



			I tidy up my horses feet weekly, in between farrier visits, any small chips or breaks from going on tracks can be sorted instead of left to get bigger, a stitch in time and all that. Is that what you were thinking? I assume you have been watching the trimmer work on your horses feet? Why dont you try and ask them, or lengthen the time between visits, rasping yourself to keep them in trim between, it is harder than it looks.
		
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My pony has hardly ever had chips until now, I do tidy up his feet if they are any with a very small rasp my barefoot trimmer recommended me (and she showed me how to do it, it is only to smoother the chips, nothing else!)

The only problem is she can only come 6 or 12 weeks (when she has other horses to do in the area) as she lives far and for my pony 6 weeks is too short and 12 too long, ideally I would like her to come every 8 to 10 weeks.

I really like how she works but if I could do my ponys feet myself and have her to check on/trim his feet every other time she comes in the area would be great.


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## Randonneuse (12 June 2011)

teasle said:



			If you are insured for vets fees please read your insurance companys small print first. I am insured with Stoneways, and it is in their terms and conditions that the horse is trimmmed or shod by a registered farrier.
		
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I am not insured for vet fee but thank you


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## PapaFrita (12 June 2011)

Randonneuse said:



			I am looking at someone who balances the foot for the horse to be ridden and if possible doing the wild horse trim.
		
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I'm not at all opposed to people trimming their own horse's feet, but I have to ask; What is a wild horse trim? Surely that would be when they wear down naturally? This brings about the following question; how is a 'wild horse trim' compatible with trimming the feet for ridden work, as wild horses are not ridden?


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## canteron (12 June 2011)

If you google the saddlery shop Ltd they do a type of rasp wiht a training video to keep your horses feet tidy between trims and I suspect would increase the length between trims.

I would then talk to my barefoot trimmer, explain that you need to increase the length of time in-between their visits and really try to learn about how to best tidy your particular horses feet from them - ie I would try and work as a team, I don't think most of them would have a problem with this - maybe aiming for a visit every 10 weeks??


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## tallyho! (12 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			I'm not at all opposed to people trimming their own horse's feet, but I have to ask; What is a wild horse trim? Surely that would be when they wear down naturally? This brings about the following question; how is a 'wild horse trim' compatible with trimming the feet for ridden work, as wild horses are not ridden?
		
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PF, it's nothing special believe me, trimmers use it as one of thier "models". It's quite simply a study in wild horses hooves and trying to apply some of the findings bearing in mind the balance & weight bearing of the whole foot taking everything else into consideration e.g. terrain, diet etc. You really have to understand the context in which it is used. Nothing to do with being ridden or not. 

And there is no wild horse TRIM!!! Each horse is different and you can't apply one model to every horse. Wild Horse 'Trim' is a method.


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## Orangehorse (12 June 2011)

There are some courses available, and most trimmers encourage you to take over some of the routine work, but it is still a good idea to have an expert to look occassionally.  What you will be doing is very conservative.

It is very scarey the first time applying a rasp to a hoof. I used to just run round to smooth off the rough edges.  Where you may come unstuck is if you are not doing enough exercise to wear down the foot and it becomes unbalanced, so it does need looking at occasionally by a trimmer or a farrier.


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## Randonneuse (12 June 2011)

ORANGEHORSE said:



			There are some courses available, and most trimmers encourage you to take over some of the routine work, but it is still a good idea to have an expert to look occassionally.  What you will be doing is very conservative.

It is very scarey the first time applying a rasp to a hoof. I used to just run round to smooth off the rough edges.  Where you may come unstuck is if you are not doing enough exercise to wear down the foot and it becomes unbalanced, so it does need looking at occasionally by a trimmer or a farrier.
		
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Thank you 
To be honest I am a bit scared as even with training I think I would be worried about making a mistakes!
I'll see with my trimmer what she thinks and go from there!

Canteron I would like her to come every 8 or 10 weeks but she only comes in the area every 6 weeks as she "groups" her visits so she does all her clients from my area on the same day.


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## cptrayes (12 June 2011)

I think your pony should be looked at every six weeks anyway, unless you do learn to trim for yourself. I agree with Tallyho that on a pony that has already been barefoot 5 years it is not rocket science. Ask your trimmer to teach you and if they won't, then there is a UKEP short course that will teach you enough to do your own pony that you already know so well.


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## Puppy (12 June 2011)

teddyt said:



			Sorry but i dont believe there is such a thing as a short course that would adequately equip someone with the skills, knowledge and experience to successfully trim a horses feet.
		
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I completely agree.


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## cptrayes (12 June 2011)

teddyt said:



			Sorry but i dont believe there is such a thing as a short course that would adequately equip someone with the skills, knowledge and experience to successfully trim a horses feet.
		
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Puppy said:



			I completely agree.
		
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I don't  I haven't ever been on a course at all, and I trim all my own horses, hunt,  evented, rehabbed one horse that two vets told me would never work barefoot and another that had been more than a year lame with navicular syndrome.

I do NOT recommend that people should learn from a book, as I did when there was no decent training in the UK. And I know that not everyone has the "feel" to be able to do more difficult horses. And I have done a huge amount of research.

But this girl has one pony, that she knows inside out, which has been barefoot for five years already, that is practically self-trimming and can go 12 weeks between trimmer visits. For her, it will be a piece of cake to trim that pony herself. 

I speak from experience. OP learn to trim the pony yourself, just don't think that it qualifies you to rehab a crippled horse - I'm sure you won't


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## KrujaaLass (12 June 2011)

Just ordered the riders rasp. I have four barefoot horses and they were only done a few weeks ago and their feet look terrible. Just tried to file down a split with hand file but this rasp looks easier to hold. Let you know if its any good


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## teddyt (12 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			But this girl has one pony, that she knows inside out, which has been barefoot for five years already, that is practically self-trimming and can go 12 weeks between trimmer visits. For her, it will be a piece of cake to trim that pony herself.
		
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A dangerous suggestion! Unless you know the OP and her pony, i cant see how you can say it would be a piece of cake for her to trim her pony's feet. Owning one unshod pony for 5 years doesn't necessarily mean you can trim! Ive owned an unshod pony for 13 years and i wouldn't do it! 

Im not saying she shouldnt learn but IMO it takes more a few days to safely learn how to trim a pony's feet. A few years maybe, but not a few days! And with only one pony learning will be slower, not easier.


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## Fee Fo (12 June 2011)

I'm confused!  I thought it was illegal for unqualified people to conduct farriery on their horses, apart from to deal with emergency situations?


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## Clava (12 June 2011)

Fee Fo said:



			I'm confused!  I thought it was illegal for unqualified people to conduct farriery on their horses, apart from to deal with emergency situations?
		
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Only illegal to prepare a hoof for shoes and to put shoes on, trimming a barefoot horse it is quite legal to do your own.


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## Clava (12 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I don't  I haven't ever been on a course at all, and I trim all my own horses, hunt,  evented, rehabbed one horse that two vets told me would never work barefoot and another that had been more than a year lame with navicular syndrome.

I do NOT recommend that people should learn from a book, as I did when there was no decent training in the UK. And I know that not everyone has the "feel" to be able to do more difficult horses. And I have done a huge amount of research.

But this girl has one pony, that she knows inside out, which has been barefoot for five years already, that is practically self-trimming and can go 12 weeks between trimmer visits. For her, it will be a piece of cake to trim that pony herself. 

I speak from experience. OP learn to trim the pony yourself, just don't think that it qualifies you to rehab a crippled horse - I'm sure you won't 

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Quite agree. I keep my horses hooves tidy and occasionally have the farrier do them (but often there is nothing to do). I'm not happy doing my lami prone pony so he does him but the straight forward ones are just that straight forward as they do largely self trim anyway.


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## cptrayes (12 June 2011)

teddyt said:



			A dangerous suggestion! Unless you know the OP and her pony, i cant see how you can say it would be a piece of cake for her to trim her pony's feet. Owning one unshod pony for 5 years doesn't necessarily mean you can trim! Ive owned an unshod pony for 13 years and i wouldn't do it! 

Im not saying she shouldnt learn but IMO it takes more a few days to safely learn how to trim a pony's feet. A few years maybe, but not a few days! And with only one pony learning will be slower, not easier.
		
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I have the experience and you don't, and yet you say I am dangerous. Rubbish. This pony knows full well how to grow good feet for itself you know? If it only needs trimming once every 10 weeks then the owner will have no trouble at all learning how to do what little her trimmer does for her at the moment.

I have a lot of friends who are paid trimmers. They are so much in demand for lame and difficult horses that they are busy teaching the owners of easy ponies like this one to trim them for themselves, so that they can focus their skills on the difficult ones. 

We aren't talking about her learning how to trim "horses and ponies". Of course that takes more time. We are talking about her learning how to do a minimal maintenance trim for one pony that she knows inside out. It's a completely different thing, and it's not rocket science.


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## KrujaaLass (12 June 2011)

cptrayes. Hi what do you use for trimming,Do you use a farriers rasp or something else. Thanks


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## tallyho! (12 June 2011)

TeddyT c'mon, it's not hard is it? Lets just get things into perspective. It's a hoof. with a few chips in here and there... how hard can it be??? I've been doing mine for a few months now. My horse is still sound!!!! We did a three hour hack today in the rain no problems. I smoothed off the edges and we came back without even a single chip! 

I understand the pro has to keep the client and all that, but imagine how good the horses life would be if every owner new enough about feet to do a little cosmetic "filing" now and again??


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## Randonneuse (12 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I have the experience and you don't, and yet you say I am dangerous. Rubbish. This pony knows full well how to grow good feet for itself you know? If it only needs trimming once every 10 weeks then the owner will have no trouble at all learning how to do what little her trimmer does for her at the moment.

I have a lot of friends who are paid trimmers. They are so much in demand for lame and difficult horses that they are busy teaching the owners of easy ponies like this one to trim them for themselves, so that they can focus their skills on the difficult ones. 

We aren't talking about her learning how to trim "horses and ponies". Of course that takes more time. We are talking about her learning how to do a minimal maintenance trim for one pony that she knows inside out. It's a completely different thing, and it's not rocket science.
		
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Thank you!
Sorry was out on my barefoot pony!
As cptrayes (I was waiting for you to give me some advice to be fair!) said I don't want to learn how to trim horses and ponies but MY pony!
He does selftrim himself a lot and doesn't need a lot doing when trimmer comes.
We hack a lot (only thing we do), from "normal" hack around 2/3hours to very fast hacks (around 12 miles mostly trot and canter-training for a endurance ride end of July!-) and his feet are always near to perfect. And we go on all surfaces!

Thanks so much for your advice everyone, I'll ask my trimmer if she could "teach" me or if she knows someone who could!


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## _HP_ (12 June 2011)

My farrier showed me how to do mine...I've been doing them for about a year now with no problems...I have a tb,a heavyweight cob, a lightweight cob,a Connie, a welshie and a shettie


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## cptrayes (12 June 2011)

KrujaaLass said:



			cptrayes. Hi what do you use for trimming,Do you use a farriers rasp or something else. Thanks
		
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I buy top quality rasps from a farriery supply store. I use top quality imported stainless steel nippers from the US for my Shetland, but he is the only horse I have who does not self trim and who needs height cutting off, otherwise I find nippers far too imprecise and in a novice's hands FAR too easy to cause damage. With a rasp, you can use gentle strokes and check after each and every stroke that you are nowhere near live foot. Horn goes slightly pink well before you get to anything which would cause issues, but you do need to keep checking. I rarely use a knife, I find it far too easy to cut myself!!! But I do trim off the top of bars very occasionally if they are rubbing on the road. Unlike many farriers, most trimmers of a pony of the kind we are talking about would never touch the sole or the frog, just reduce the wall height and rasp off chips around the edge. That's all I do with any of mine, because they do a lot of road work and there's not much to do with a horse who self-trims.

I do NOT recommend that you trim your own horse without being taught. I do NOT recommend that anyone but a paid trimmer, a farrier, or a very experienced owner trims a horse who has ever been lame with more than an abscess. Idiots should not be allowed near a horse with anything sharper than a stick of celery (thanks Nic ) but there will, unfortunately be some idiots in the world.  That doesn't mean that Randonneuse should not trim her own pony. If she lived near me I'd teach her myself


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## teddyt (12 June 2011)

cptrayes- i said it was a dangerous suggestion. Not that you were dangerous. There is a difference. And i don't believe you can safely say to someone you dont know, with a horse you havnt seen, that it is easy to trim their feet.

Tallyho- No its, not hard to trim/rasp. Just like its perfectly possible to rasp a horses teeth. But i have seen first hand many, many cases the affect good and bad trimming can have on soundness and performance. Some cases in the short term and some cases long term. So i personally dont think it is something people should do after just a few days 'training'.

And particularly with only one horse you do not learn to get an 'eye' for balance as someone who is trimming umpteen horses a day professionally. Even professionals get it wrong, so it shows its not that easy. 

I dont want to hijack this thread though, jut wanted to state i think you need more experience than one pony and someone showing you how they do something for a few hours.


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## tallyho! (12 June 2011)

Let me me just get ONE thing straight...

We are talking about a maintenance trim here right? A file if you like. Not a full on trim.

So, teddyt, stop getting all protective. OP just wants to know how to file a few chips off!


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## Randonneuse (12 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I do NOT recommend that you trim your own horse without being taught. I do NOT recommend that anyone but a paid trimmer, a farrier, or a very experienced owner trims a horse who has ever been lame with more than an abscess. Idiots should not be allowed near a horse with anything sharper than a stick of celery (thanks Nic ) but there will, unfortunately be some idiots in the world.  That doesn't mean that Randonneuse should not trim her own pony. If she lived near me I'd teach her myself 

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Thanks! 

teddyt I don't understand why I couldn't learn how to trim my ponys feet on my pony only as he would be the only one I would ever do?
I know for example why his left front foot has a different shape from his other feet and this is because I think he compensates for an injury he had on his right back foot (I think it's called fetlock in English) when he was about 6.
I mentioned it to my trimmer the first time she came to do his feet and she also thinks this is why his front foot selftrim in that way.
I wouldn't try to change his balance to have the perfect "visual" feet but would trim his feet as he needs them to be (if that makes sense)

I understand that maybe people who want to trim several horses should train and practice more as all horses are different and have different ways of selftrimming etc...but I think if I only want to do my pony it would be best to train on him only?
(I don't mind if it takes time for me to learn as long as in the end I can do it myself with as I said someone to come and check his feet few times a year)


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## corbleu (12 June 2011)

Sorry to be negative but quite frankly I'm rather alarmed at the rather blazé attitude to farriery on this post. I appreciate that the OP has known her pony a heck of a long time, and that he has been barefoot for a long time. However, a farrier trains for 4 years between college and apprenticeships under experienced horsemen to learn how to ensure a horse's foot is correctly balanced (for functionality, not aesthetically balanced) and has detailed, in-depth knowledge of exactly how the whole horse moves from cellular level through the structures of the foot, leg, shoulder, pelvis, back etc... Whilst in some cases I am sure many ponies "learn" how to sort themselves out, more through need than choice, I fear in the longer term the potential for damage is quite severe. It is an entirely different ball game to remove a loose shoe or run a rasp over a crack whilst waiting for an expert than it is to try and eek out visits from said professional. By all means discuss with your trimmer, I always have an eye over my farrier's shoulder and both he and I enjoy discussing what he is doing, how and why, but I would seriously reconsider trying to do this yourself. By the time your trimmer pops round to check your handy work the damage can already be done.


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## cptrayes (12 June 2011)

corbleu I understand your fears but to read your post you would think that horses and ponies don't know how to grow feet without the intervention of a farrier.

horses belonging to owners who can match growth to wear, as the poster does, don't need a farrier to tell them what the right foot is for them. As the poster has said, her pony grows feet that compensate for an old injury and knows exactly what foot it needs.

Farriers don't in the main, ever see a barefoot hunter or eventer during their training. They are taught to make and apply shoes, and to trim a horse that is not in hard work. Only a small proportion are ever taught to trim horses for hard work without shoes on. It depends entirely on whether their supervising farrier has any on his books, and few do.

Besides which, it's really not the trim which is the big issue with barefoot horses. It is feeding correctly, getting the right environment for them to live in, and matching exercise to hoof wear that are far more important.

As I say, I understand your fear. We have all been practically brainwashed for decades now that all horses need shoes if they are to work hard. It is difficult, if you have not seen in it practice, to go against that received wisdom.


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## peerielee (12 June 2011)

My horse is barefoot, a trimmer comes out and trims them for me but i keep them neat and tidy inbetween, she has shown me how to and if i have any problems at all i can call or email her.  Together we have changed my horses diet nad they are thriving on it and living really well.  I see no problem with keeping your horses feet neat and tidy if you research and have a good trimmer.


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## tallyho! (13 June 2011)

corbleu said:



			Sorry to be negative but quite frankly I'm rather alarmed at the rather blazé attitude to farriery on this post. I appreciate that the OP has known her pony a heck of a long time, and that he has been barefoot for a long time. However, a farrier trains for 4 years between college and apprenticeships under experienced horsemen to learn how to ensure a horse's foot is correctly balanced (for functionality, not aesthetically balanced) and has detailed, in-depth knowledge of exactly how the whole horse moves from cellular level through the structures of the foot, leg, shoulder, pelvis, back etc... Whilst in some cases I am sure many ponies "learn" how to sort themselves out, more through need than choice, I fear in the longer term the potential for damage is quite severe. It is an entirely different ball game to remove a loose shoe or run a rasp over a crack whilst waiting for an expert than it is to try and eek out visits from said professional. By all means discuss with your trimmer, I always have an eye over my farrier's shoulder and both he and I enjoy discussing what he is doing, how and why, but I would seriously reconsider trying to do this yourself. By the time your trimmer pops round to check your handy work the damage can already be done.
		
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Groaaaaan. Its blaze because we're not talking about a proper trim. You've taken it to a whole new level which I won't go into. If that's the way you feel, fine, don't come on here looking for an argument - comment if you have something constructive to contribute.



peerielee said:



			My horse is barefoot, a trimmer comes out and trims them for me but i keep them neat and tidy inbetween, she has shown me how to and if i have any problems at all i can call or email her.  Together we have changed my horses diet nad they are thriving on it and living really well.  I see no problem with keeping your horses feet neat and tidy if you research and have a good trimmer.
		
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Exactly. I think any owner should be able to perform a basic tidy-up rasp.


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## Miss L Toe (13 June 2011)

Fee Fo said:



			I'm confused!  I thought it was illegal for unqualified people to conduct farriery on their horses, apart from to deal with emergency situations?
		
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It is illegal to shoe a horse, that is why the farriers apprentice will only remove, rasp and tidy up, but is not allowed to nail a shoe on.
There is nothing about shoe removal, which competent people have been doing for years. 
In the UK farriers HAVE to be registered .. there are regular prosecutions every year, usually the same culprits.
I am quite happy to tighten up clenches in an emergency, but would NEVER put an extra nail in for example.


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## Miss L Toe (13 June 2011)

I have been rasping off for years, [in the literal sense], but never considered I was "trimming", I pay a farrier for that, and if he does the job properly I should never have a balance problem.


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## PapaFrita (13 June 2011)

tallyho! said:



			PF, it's nothing special believe me, trimmers use it as one of thier "models". It's quite simply a study in wild horses hooves and trying to apply some of the findings bearing in mind the balance & weight bearing of the whole foot taking everything else into consideration e.g. terrain, diet etc. You really have to understand the context in which it is used. Nothing to do with being ridden or not. 

And there is no wild horse TRIM!!! Each horse is different and you can't apply one model to every horse. Wild Horse 'Trim' is a method.
		
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Ok, thanks, makes more sense now (does sound VERY daft on first impressions... )


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## Fantasy_World (13 June 2011)

I don't have any problem with knowledgeable people trimming their horses feet so long as they have been shown correctly how to do it. Personally I wouldn't do anymore myself than just rasp down a chip or similar. I certainly wouldn't be doing by own paring of the hoof. I have a great deal of respect for farriers as they work damned hard, study hard and pay out a lot of money to do the job that they do. Back breaking work in all weathers and with all kinds of horses, some good some bad!
What I don't agree with is these short quick fix courses like I have heard about at some centres. I think they are downright dangerous.
A horses soundness as we all know is not just based upon the state of the hoof but it is affected by the whole body and structure of the horse. I think we all know the phrase no hoof no horse. Unless someone is totally understanding of the entire muscular and skeletal system of a horse and understands the motor functions then I don't think people should be giving full on trims to their horses.
I don't think that every horse should be shod. Each to their own. Mine in fact are all barefoot now.
However the reason for my response is personal.
I did think beforehand that people should be au fait with the leg structures and motor functions of a horse before they even think about trimming and should always seek professional guidance if they were to trim themselves.
My mare recently came back from loan. Not only did she return underweight and full of lice but also her feet are not as they should be. My farrier cannot address problems caused by them self trimming as she doesn't have enough foot left on to correct. They have not only taken too much off but she is now pigeon toed on her front feet.
To be honest I am very angry about it!
So I urge anyone who is thinking of self trimming to please talk to the experts or your farrier before you think of doing any work like that to your horses feet.
Had my mare stayed in this home permanently I dread to think what may have happened to her in the long term.
By learning how to do things correctly is the way to go about trimming. Not some short course. Farriers train for years to do their job.


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## Natch (13 June 2011)

KrujaaLass said:



			Just ordered the riders rasp. I have four barefoot horses and they were only done a few weeks ago and their feet look terrible. Just tried to file down a split with hand file but this rasp looks easier to hold. Let you know if its any good
		
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I would be interested to hear from people who use this and have feedback from their hoof care professional. In a talk by a barefoot trimmer I attended, the chap seemed to think it left the horn open to fungal and bacterial invasion, since it was too coarse. He recommended a sandpaper block to run over the edges every few days, in between trims. If done lightly I think this sounds like a good way of keeping on top of a horse's regrowth between trims, but I would want the professional to check my work regularly and slowly graduate to seeing me further apart each time. 



cptrayes said:



			With a rasp, you can use gentle strokes and check after each and every stroke that you are nowhere near live foot. Horn goes slightly pink well before you get to anything which would cause issues, but you do need to keep checking. I rarely use a knife, I find it far too easy to cut myself!!! But I do trim off the top of bars very occasionally if they are rubbing on the road.
		
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I wouldn't be happy to recommend the OP to take anything like the amount you're talking about off, without sufficient and quality training, but that's just me.  (edited to add that I know you're not recommending this!) For the same reason I'd really caution against using anything but a fine rasp or sandpaper unless you know what you are doing.

May I just hijack and ask you about trimming the bars? If your horse's bars are touching the road, depending on concavity and how you're managing your horse etc, wouldn't it just be best left to wear itself down against the road? Just interested as I've seen a fair few people trimming bars and recommending others to do so, and I'm never quite sure why. Could be that I just don't have that knowledge


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## cptrayes (13 June 2011)

Naturally said:



			May I just hijack and ask you about trimming the bars? If your horse's bars are touching the road, depending on concavity and how you're managing your horse etc, wouldn't it just be best left to wear itself down against the road? Just interested as I've seen a fair few people trimming bars and recommending others to do so, and I'm never quite sure why. Could be that I just don't have that knowledge 

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Sometimes some horses will put up a really sharp little ridge at the top of the bar, and instead of wearing down nicely, it can catch like a snagged nail, especially going downhill on a flat road. If a horse has high bars like that and I feel a misstep going downhill, then I just pare the top off so it can't snag. I haven't had one do it for a couple of years that I can remember, it's not a routine part of trimming. But if you're going to do it you need a really decent knife.

For the earlier poster "self trimming" is the term we use when the horse's wear on its feet from its work matches its rate of foot growth and no trimming by a human is necessary. This is a great place to be, and the end goal for all barefoot horses, but not always achievable, so we replicate the wear with a trim.  Owner trimming is not "self trimming".

Cazee34 your horse may well have a poor trim. But if she has, a poor trim did not make your mare pigeon toed unless she was well under 4 years old when you lent her out. Pigeon toed conformation is usually a lack of straightness higher in the leg (fetlock or cannon). If she is not straight in the leg then it would be likely that your very skilled farrier has been diguising this by the way he shoes/trims her (as most farriers would, partly because owners want to see their horse look straight, I know I did when I had one years ago). 

Both you and he may feel that she moves better shod that way, but you may also need to question how much strain shoeing a horse straight when it is not built straight will put on joints higher up the leg and whether that will eventually cause her joint problems later in life. There are horses with lack of straightness in the leg which grow the most peculiar shape barefoot feet, but they are the optimum feet to cause the least stress to the horse. If you are sure your horse has straight legs and a balanced body, then her current pigeon toes are probably a result of poor hoof management as you suspect. But if she is not perfectly straight then they are likely to be a reflection of her lack of straightness and at least part way towards the hoof she knows she needs to compensate for that. It would then be very questionnable whether she should be trimmed to attempt to correct that.

Lastly, barefoot feet are very short looking to most shod horse owners. Did they "take it off" or did she do it for herself? Again, if she did it for herself and she is sound, then it's the foot she knows she needs.

I know this is probably not the answer for your one horse, who I have not seen and cannot judge, but there are a lot of other readers who need to know that for a pigeon toed, short-footed horse like yours, all may not be what it seems.


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## Fantasy_World (13 June 2011)

Thanks for your reply CPTrayes. As far as I know she is the straight in her legs because this has not been picked up before and it is my usual and very good farrier which said she looked slightly pigeon toed when I asked him to look at her feet for me shortly after her return from loan.
I understand what you are saying about farriers and how they can disguise such matters but I do know in his case he is a very honest farrier. I have a cob which is slightly pigeon toed on one of his front and always has been. Every farrier has picked this up and it has never bothered him when riding, shod or unshod. 
My farrier also noticed an issue on my older horse last year that I wasn't aware of that had either developed through age or that previous farriers had not noticed.
My farrier has been dealing with my mare for some time and has trimmed her both for barefoot and shoes in the past. 
He did say that her feet were not that bad but did say she looked slightly pigeon toed and that there was not a lot underneath. 
I cannot remember all the technical bits he mentioned right now though. 
She is sound though and is rideable, but does feel the stones so we try to avoid them.
I did know she was being barefoot trimmed whilst on loan and I was happy with that as I trusted people. However when a horse returns in the state that she did and my farrier also saying she has foot issues then it doesn't really allay any fears about how well she was looked after.
Nutrition levels and grooming are all basic levels of care and the fact that she was thin and covered in lice does not bode well for how she was kept. The fact that she improved in condition within just a week tells me she was not getting anywhere near enough what she should have been. She was ravenous at the haylage net when I got her back and in all the time I have had her I have never seen her go at a net like that. 
The lice was unforgiveable too.
So with regard to the foot issue if even the basic standards of care were not met properly and I discovered the loanee had himself been trimming the feet then how does that allay any fears that her feet may have been trimmed wrong.
At least she is back where she belongs now and has put on weight and now looks really well. The feet issue will be sorted with the help of my farrier who I trust completely.

Getting back to why I posted what I did though it was because I do have concerns about people doing full on trims on their horses feet unless they are totally capable of doing so. That is not to say everyone is not competent but just that be careful who you trust to trim your horses feet.
My other big lad also suffered at the hands of someone before I had him. His then owner trusted a friend who was having her horse seen to, to trim him also.
I was told that he came back very foot sore on all four feet and in fact when I had him he had very boxy looking feet and was very, very short. It tooks months for my then farrier to have his feet looking anywhere near how a horses feet should look. He now has lovely feet and has been both shod and unshod since I have him.
So there are personal reasons for my comments about barefoot trimming.


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## KrujaaLass (13 June 2011)

Funnily enough I did try with sandpaper first, but it was not very effective.Perhaps Ill try it everday.Thanks


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## RobinHood (13 June 2011)

I occasionally tidy up my horse's feet but he's in no danger believe me. I'm so cack handed with the rasp that I remove more skin from my knuckles than hoof from his foot! After a few minutes I'm bleeding and sweating and I've barely made an impact on the foot .


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## KrujaaLass (13 June 2011)

Thats why I am trying a Riders Rasp. It looked so easy to hold.


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## ofcourseyoucan (13 June 2011)

farriers train for 4 yrs before qualifying, but usually do 1 to 2 years with a farrier before starting the apprenticeship per say. glad you are all so blase with your horses feet. a little knowldge is a VERY DANGEROUS thing. but hey go ahead and buy a knife, a pair of pinchers, and a rasp. you will be fine til the horse goes lame. like humans the horse has many complex conformation criteria going on in the foot.NO FOOT NO HORSE didnt magic itself out of the air.


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## ofcourseyoucan (13 June 2011)

and MRS D123 apprentices nail on in 2/3/4th years otherwise how wuld they learn?


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## tallyho! (13 June 2011)

AGAIN... we are not talking about trimming!!!!

Can we find a new word for a maintenance rasp/file/whatever as some people seem very confused.... and are jumping on their soapboxes.


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## DragonSlayer (13 June 2011)

teddyt said:



			Sorry but i dont believe there is such a thing as a short course that would adequately equip someone with the skills, knowledge and experience to successfully trim a horses feet.
		
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Hear, Hear.


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## KrujaaLass (13 June 2011)

Who said they were going to buy a knife. The OP only wanted to smooth edges off. Or have I got it wrong


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## Miss L Toe (13 June 2011)

ofcourseyoucan said:



			and MRS D123 apprentices nail on in 2/3/4th years otherwise how wuld they learn?
		
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Thank you for making it clear that you know more than me, of course that makes you only one in a million
This site is full of jobsworths, don't you agree?


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## Natch (13 June 2011)

tallyho! said:



			AGAIN... we are not talking about trimming!!!!

Can we find a new word for a maintenance rasp/file/whatever as some people seem very confused.... and are jumping on their soapboxes.
		
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Don't bother, there's nowt so deaf as those who don't want to hear


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## tallyho! (14 June 2011)

Naturally said:



			Don't bother, there's nowt so deaf as those who don't want to hear 

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LOL... absolutely Naturally!


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## corbleu (14 June 2011)

Retiring from this thread gracefully. I don't look for arguments, I simply am concerned at the attitude to work normally undertaken by a skilled professional. However, reading some of the comments there appears to be an all round attitude. Not sure what happened to supportive, constructive criticisms which encourages us all to look at our practices but evidently they've died a death. I did want to say one thing to Mrs D, however, hence the reason for this post - I agree with you about the apprenticeships, it is illegal for someone not registered to nail the shoes on, which is why when on an apprenticeship the student is accompanied by the farrier who oversees their work. It's a similar situation to nurse training - as a student I was allowed to give medication as long as it was witnessed and checked as correct by a registered nurse, therefore the liability ultimately rested with them. As you progress through your training and become more competent the level of supervision becomes less until by the end of your training you should be practically doing the job with someone glancing over your work to check you are on the right lines, you shouldn't need actual "instruction" as such by the time you are ready to qualify.


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## MissMistletoe (14 June 2011)

KrujaaLass said:



			Funnily enough I did try with sandpaper first, but it was not very effective.Perhaps Ill try it everday.Thanks
		
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Have you managed to use the riders rasp yet?

Mine arrived yesterday and im going to give it a go later on. My only concern is whether it is too course. It is the new trial rider version which has a medium course rasp, but it's not interchangable.

Like, you and the other' tidy-uppers between trimming visits' people on this board , I will only be using it to remove superficial chips and smooth off the edges. It would be pretty useless for removing flare on my mare's hard feet.


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## Hobbitpony (14 June 2011)

Randonneuse said:



			I am looking at learning how to trim my ponys feet myself (he is a 14hh gelding) and would like to know if anyone does it and who "taught" them? (any courses?)

It would only be to do my pony, no other horses so I think maybe it is not so hard once you have been taught by the right person?
My pony has been barefoot for about 5 years and I have been using a barefoot trimmer from the AANHCP for a year now (I had my pony in France before)

I am looking at someone who balances the foot for the horse to be ridden and if possible doing the wild horse trim.

Please CC only, I am not trying to start a debate as I just think a regular trim "tidy up" every week or so would be better than my barefoot trimmer coming every 6 to 12 weeks!  (I would still have my barefoot trimmer every few months to check I am doing it right)

Thanks a lot 

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My OH is from the @rse end of no-where rural NZ and most farmers where he's from trim their own horses. So yes I guess you can learn to do it, it's just culturally (and because we have a ready supply of farriers available) we don't do it in this country. In theory I think its a useful skill to have but I'm not sure if a) I'd have the guts to do my own horse, b) where you would find someone to teach you? I guess you could pay for some 'tutor sessions' with your trimmer??


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## tazzle (14 June 2011)

I learnt how to do my own horses feet from both a farrier and a trimmer starting with me watching them, then doing it under their supervision, then doing work between their visits. ( the trimmer took over when my farrier retired although they did overlap for a while quite happily.). Now  trimmer visits couple times a year to check and is available to give advice anytime.

I dont think its something for a short course then left to ones own devices  .....  and I just about contained myself when a visitor to the yard saw me doing it once and said he had a file in his garage and  would give it a go if we didn't need a farrier to do a pones feet.     ... but done sensibly and limited to ones own neds where the feet have alreday been assessed by a professional  and advice heeded... then there is no reason an owner cannot be responsible about a horses feet.

I know several people who do thier own horses feet .... and like hobbitpony's oh its sometimes  a necessity. One lives in the outer hebrides with no farrier available regularly  ....and planned visits can be put off indefinately when the weather is bad and the ferries not running.  A regual rasp round is imo far better than waiting for weeks  and weeks and have problems developing from a chip to a large crack if the farrier not due or cant come soon enough.


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## KrujaaLass (14 June 2011)

Hi Pod 77. Mine came today so did try it. It was not as abrasive as I thought it would be. It was similar to doing your hardskin on your feet with a pummice stone. How did you get on


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## Pale Rider (15 June 2011)

In an ideal situation barefoot horses should have self maintaining feet, unfortunately in the majority of cases horses do not get enough exercise, or work, as it's now called, to maintain their feet, so they need to be trimmed.

6 weeks or whatever is too long a period to leave their feet so owners should be doing a maintainance trim on a weekly basis or thereabouts.

Very little and often is the key to this, your trimmer of farrier should show you how to do it.


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## zandp (15 June 2011)

My trimmer has advised me if I wanted to tidy up in between visits to use a wood shaving tool, rather than a rasp, you are much less likely to do more harm than good.  She's also shown me what to tidy - and what to leave.  Speak to your trimmer, most are happy to help with this.


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