# kineton noseband?



## Solstar (30 July 2007)

does anybody use one? 
it has been suggested that i should try one for my horse- 
he puts his tongue over the bit and runs off with his head down, even when the bit is really high up.
i am riding him in a happy mouth dutch gag with 2 reins at the mo with a flash on for hacking and jumping but i dont really like this arrangement as it makes him look a bit 'cluttered'.
i have been told that if i tried one of these, with the snaffle on that i school in, it may help. is this true or is it cr*p?
any other suggestions?
solo had his teeth checked 2weeks ago, and his back 4 weeks ago.


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## flyingfeet (30 July 2007)

Often work quite well and can stop horses that easily split their lips or object to bit pressure. Doesn't work with every horse, but worth trying.

In your case, may not work as the horses head is down rather than up, so might just push his nose to his chest. However you cannot really tell until you try.


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## jumpthemoon (30 July 2007)

It is a very severe piece of tack and I would only consider using one as a last resort and if I was completely satisfied that my riding was up to scratch. It should only be used with a snaffle, but I wouldn't use it at all, personally. Have you tried a bit with a port?


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## flyingfeet (30 July 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
It is a very severe piece of tack and I would only consider using one as a last resort and if I was completely satisfied that my riding was up to scratch. It should only be used with a snaffle, but I wouldn't use it at all, personally. Have you tried a bit with a port? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Woah - severe??? They act on the nose after pressure has been applied to the bars and stop further pressure on the bars thereby making the bit kinder in the mouth.

Not severe per se, and certainly milder than a myler combination bit

Try in a snaffle, but no reason why they cannot be used with other piece

Deeply out of fashion, therefore may be regarded by some as the work of the devil - these are the idiots that prefer a good old snaffle and sawing action!!! I despair.


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## lastresort (30 July 2007)

used it for hunting but try it first as some horses hate the action


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## gemmaw (30 July 2007)

i used it on a horse that used to make its mouth bleed when you cantered it, even in a snaffle! found it extremely good, no more bleeding mouths! make sure its fitted properly though or it wont work at all!


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## jumpthemoon (30 July 2007)

CSJ, it's only one school of thought, but the mechanics of the kinton metal loop make the bit rise higher and higher in the horses mouth as pressure is applied. This then causes the bit to act higher up the shank of the kinton giving increased leverage. The danger here is the rider can exert a considerable force on the nose without realising it.

 The noseband is very effective, as it does not give the horse any option to evade, but if not used by a skilled rider it can be very severe. TBH I've not used one so I may be wrong, but this is what I have always understood.

Oh, and if the sawing comment was aimed at me, i NEVER saw my horses mouth!


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## Solstar (30 July 2007)

if i can get hold of one il try it then. payday on wednesday! will look on ebay.
 iv tried a ported bit, he started shaking his head about. 
it is a last resort... my mum said to try a cheltenham on him but his lips are far too sensitive and will probably split and bleed. 
thanks everyone


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## 4WhiteLegs (30 July 2007)

Fitted correctly a kineton shouldn't pull the bit up in the mouth. I have found some horses go very well in them and some hate them with a passion - it always seems to be love or hate and nothing in between LOL

I wouldn't say it is a severe piece of tack. But then a piece of equipment is only ever as severe as the hands they are in..........


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## countess (30 July 2007)

Have you thought of using an austrailian noseband. I have found them very effective in the past with horses that do gymnastic movements with their tongues and they never seemed to object to wearing them. I do know they dont look the best though.


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## Zaf (30 July 2007)

I've used them in the past but only with mullen mouth bits as they do tend to have a squeezing action rather like a Scorrier - have had good results and no results whatsovever with different horses, adjusted properly and with bit guards I dont think they are particularly severe though


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## Solstar (30 July 2007)

countess- i hadnt thought of an austrailian noseband.... if i come across one of those first il try one.thankyou.


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## Teasel (30 July 2007)

Other option could be a Worcester noseband - similar action to the Kineton, but less severe?


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## Solstar (30 July 2007)

ooh i was looking at one of them in r nd r yesterday.. didnt really know what they did but on thinking about it a worcester may help.


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## Capriole (30 July 2007)

**Woah - severe???**

i have a saddlery book which does call it severe, the author says pretty mcuh if you cant stop in this the next step is have the horse shot before it kills you both...


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## flyingfeet (30 July 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
**Woah - severe???**

i have a saddlery book which does call it severe, the author says pretty mcuh if you cant stop in this the next step is have the horse shot before it kills you both... 

[/ QUOTE ]
A book is only one person's opinion - I have one that says they aren't severe

This is a good link:
http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/bridle.php#kineton

Quote from this link:
 <font color="blue">  "If you read older english books about tack and this one surfaces, it will invariably be called "sharp" and "harsh". Why, it doesn't say.

I think they have actually only "figured out" that it is harsh without even trying it. The logic is this: Since it stops hot pulling horses from running away with their riders it must be incredibly harsh and sharp, because it can accomplish what a thin, twisted scissor pelham cannot. It must be incredibly sharp. It's not of course...."</font>


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## Capriole (30 July 2007)

i dont know, the author is a saddler himself, he does give reasons why its 'the work of the devil' but i havent got the book here and dont want to misquote him too badly.
i havent tried one myself and havent needed too, thankfully ive been lucky with my horses and theyve never given my too mcuh trouble


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