# A typical lockdown puppy....



## BBP (16 December 2020)

I’m so frustrated. I have a Facebook friend, we know each other from school. This year with lockdown she decides she’s going to get a puppy as the kids want one and she now works from home. But she doesn’t want one that sheds or gets dirt and fur everywhere. So it needs to be a poodle type. Lots of people were suggesting breeds and how their poo is the best poo ever. So I put a reply talking about how to select a breeder when looking for a puppy, ask about the genetic health tests for the breed, see the mum with the puppies, watch out for those who have bred to their male pet (as it might be because they can not because it’s a carefully thought out pairing), how many litters has the bitch had, his have they socialised it, all that stuff. Watch out for backyard breeders and puppy farms basically. 

Puppy, a chihuahua x miniature poodle, is a pretty enough little thing and has been with her 2 months now. It is sick for the second time. Swollen tummy, loads of fluid and retained feaces and enlarged heart. I suggested she give the breeder a call to see if there is anything genetically in the pups background that might give the vets more info. ‘Oh, I could try them, but to be honest they weren’t proper breeders and it was an ‘accidental’ little (the inverted commas are mine), and it was a pretty rough place.’

It makes me really sad that she seems to be another one who has fed the back yard breeder regime with cash because she wanted a cute fashionable ‘chi-poo’ right now.

Another Facebook friend did the same with a pug and bought one where it’s eyes are too big for its sockets. It looks a happy little thing but so so deformed, they eyes are always pointing different directions to each other.

I know I’m not one to talk, I don’t have a perfect dog. He’s probably harder work than these two pups will ever be. But at least he had the advantage of being from sound, healthy, health tested lines.


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## On the Hoof (16 December 2020)

I’m just overwhelmed with sadness at these poor pups -  people need to learn impulse control .  Snap re your dog 😊


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## Clodagh (16 December 2020)

That is so sad. Poor pups.
My husbands aunt and uncle, both mid 80s, he with cancer, got a springer spaniel x poodle. They only ever had show labs before, and no dog at all for 10 years. They can’t do a thing with it and it is now biting them.


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## Chiffy (16 December 2020)

Oh no, Clodagh! What a terrible choice! ☹️


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## meleeka (16 December 2020)

People are stupid.  A friend wanted a puppy. she bought a Husky x Pomeranian, hoping it would be more Pomeranian.  Of course it’s just a small Husky!  To be fair he’s a lovely dog but barely gets walked and is one of those uncontrollable dogs that’s “just being friendly” when it’s running riot.   At least he’s healthy, unlike another friends Pug.  How anyone chooses to buy a puppy that’s a walking vet bill is beyond me.  I couldn’t cope with the stress of a sick dog.  Of course we all take that chance, but knowing it’s going to happen is very different.


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## SOS (16 December 2020)

The majority of people don’t care about where they come from and don’t seem to even do any research. Especially when finding a good breeder takes time, patience and often comes at a greater cost (rightly so).

This year I’ve seen NUMEROUS people:
- Buy a dog without meeting any of the parents or even going to the breeders house. In some case couriered in lockdowns.
- Buy a dog despite knowing it was from a puppy farm as they “felt sorry” and were rescuing it 
- Ask why their 10 week old puppy is “crazy” and biting their children... to which I responded have they even read a book.
- Present very poorly, unwormed and unvaccinated puppies and not seem to be concerned by this. To then complain about the price of treatment.
-Many under age or unmicrochipped puppies
-Lots of nervous poorly socialised animals which are already presenting a handful and being rehomed

Why any first time dog owner would chose a poo breed is beyond me. Poodles can be notoriously stubborn and difficult hence why they are quite a niche breed to own. To then cross with working line spaniels leads to a very high energy, intelligent but stubborn animal. And they are not truly hypoallergenic in any shape or form, just don’t moult as much.

I got a puppy this year, after pausing my search during the first lockdown as global pandemic didn’t scream stable home life to me. It took a LOT of time and work and the majority of breeders advertising were awful. In the end the breeder found me which I was lucky for but if you were naive (or more likely ignorant), dodgy breeders were having a field day.


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## BBP (16 December 2020)

Clodagh said:



			That is so sad. Poor pups.
My husbands aunt and uncle, both mid 80s, he with cancer, got a springer spaniel x poodle. They only ever had show labs before, and no dog at all for 10 years. They can’t do a thing with it and it is now biting them.
		
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That doesn’t seem a good choice at all! I got a collie as a first dog, which was equally daft, but I was prepared to put in the work and change my life to suit the dog.


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## blackcob (16 December 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338967667571617799


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## deb_l222 (16 December 2020)

The first part of your post speaks volumes; she doesn't want a dog that gets dirty of sheds hair.  Hmmmm that's what dogs do, it's a fact of life.  Just because it's a 'poo' won't miraculously make it super clean 

It's so very sad but these lockdown pups and dogs must be doing OK because rescues are fairly empty at the moment, as are the stray kennels.  At least in this neck of the woods they are but only time will tell how long that will last when things get back to 'normal' next year.

Clodagh - that's very sad.  Sad for the couple but also sad for the dog because he just sounds frustrated and not living his best life.  They probably need to give him up now before the situation gets much worse and they get really hurt.  Poodles are highly intelligent dogs and combined with the idiocy of some springers, it's a recipe for disaster, just like it is with some cockerpoos.


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## Mrs. Jingle (16 December 2020)

All this puppy mill stuff breaks my heart. I can't tell you how ashamed I am of all the Irish puppy mills that flood the Uk and European market every single day of the year...how do they even smuggle that many in????

It isn't always the buyers fault though - Even after decades of owning and buying and even breeding pups (they both came to me accidentally in pup not intentionally bred I hastily add!) And I have worked in rescue here. 

I was caught myself in recent years. I researched as much as I could at that time  a breeder offering chocolate labs for sale - they ticked all the right boxes for being a responsible dog breeder, we went to see the pups and saw both parents and spent time with the woman and the litter.  Within a short few months we were concerned about the on/off limpin from our new pup.

 After a lot of vet work, including going to UCD Dublin for full xrays and consulting with an expert in the field, at less than a year old she was already showing significant signs of hip displacia on both sides and on one front elbow. The expert opinion was she had not been bred from health checked parents and probably was not from a responsible breeder. Her life span was going to be short and all we could do was keep her as comfortable as possible in that time.  Against all the odds with the help of our wonderful vets we kept her going almost pain free and very happily enjoying life until she just turned 6. At that point she became very ill and was taken in to be operated on and it would appear all the meds she had to be on over the years had literally eaten away half her stomach, it was inoperable and we took the decision to let her go while under anesthetic.  

Time had marched on, and over those 6 years we had all become more aware of puppy farms and to my horror when I did more research Coco's outwardly reputable and responsible breeder was now on a long list of scammers, churning out pups regardless of any health checks and illegally without licence.  I was devastated I had unwittingly added to their profit and help them fund yet more illegal and unscrupulous breeding of poorly sick pups destined for just a short and painful life.

So don't just assume these breeders are all scruffy little sheds on untidy and filthy premises, believe me they are not - some of them and their very convincing owners put up a first class front that can scam even the more experienced of us. All I can advise is now the internet is more open acccess to licensed premises, searching thoroughly online etc. etc. before you even bother to go and look. OH - and don't trust the parents pedigree either - we suspect neither of the ones we were shown for Coco's dam or sire were even genuine for those particular dogs. Heartbreaking. Word of mouth from someone you trust who has some experience in breeding is probably a good first point of call.

sorry so long - but it is something I feel very, very strongly about as you may have noticed lol!


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## CorvusCorax (16 December 2020)

Private boats are being used and hidden compartments in large vehicles on commercial ferries/dogs sedated.

General advice re hip/elbow scores, with the BVA, you can only search EKC registered dogs online on the public KC Health Checker service. If you have an IKC registered dog or a dog from any other registry you want to search, you can't find it. A lot of people use this as a dodge, unfortunately, oh yeah the dog is scored, but the score is high, and you can't find out about it.
If you are shown hip and elbow score paperwork, make sure it tallies to the actual parents (name, microchip or registration number).
If you don't know what you are looking for you could be shown a white sheet and a yellow sheet with good scores but not relating to either of the parents of your dog.


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## QuantockHills (16 December 2020)

i've been looking for a dog.... had 7 GSD's and a Great Dane in the past. I've recently lost my 14 year old GSD and have a 12 year old GSD bitch left. I consider myself to be very experienced and knowledgeable, and have served on canine society committees and shown at championship level.  However, i cant find a suitable puppy anywhere.... i'm not prepared to pay £3000 for something bred without any health checks, hip / elbow certificates etc, kc reg, from a 'backyard / pet breeder, who's just cashing in on the lockdown puppy period..... looks like i'm going to have to wait a year or two and hope these 'breeders' disappear again....


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## CorvusCorax (16 December 2020)

QH do you want another GSD? PM me your location/how far you want to travel (I could guess, but just in case...) and I can see if there's anything about.


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## Bellasophia (16 December 2020)

I’ve had 3 standard poodles in my life since 2000....beautiful dogs.I’ve been complimented wherever I go...people want “a dog just like that”
I try to explain the breed needs..they often glaze their eyes and walk away..



Poodles don’t shed.. not true..they do shed *into* their coat..if they are not brushed,then combed every day,this hair will become knotted or worse matt  into a felt.



Poodles are easy keepers...hmm..poodles are happy if they rule your world...try to keep a poodle apart from the family..they actually pine/ suffer terribly.

Poodles have a long memory..if they don’t like something they can become phobic to avoid repeating the bad experience...they need a lot of understanding..with kind handling and positive reinforcement you can undo a bad experience,but it takes time.

Poodles are high maintenance..you will spend as much in one year,on grooming equipment as the cost of buying your pedigree ,well bred ,pup if you groom at home...if not ,the costs are ongoing as the coat grows continuously and will need daily grooming care and monthly clipping/ scissoring at the very least.

poodle temperament will differ according to their lines..
my first was high prey drive,uk dog,was a show pick pup,..had epilepsy at 3 yrs..but managed with constant attention to her thunder phobia etc..
my second ,German dog was all about work ethic..her litter siblings were search and rescue,guide for the unsighted,therapy hospital dog etc.. this pup had an old soul..my heart dog ,never  needed  a lead,...but had lifelong health issues due to auto immune ilness..cost me  200 e a month for her meds.
third and current..top show lines..intensively health tested, lovely healthy dog..third time lucky.



so to consider an apoo...cross breed...you really don’t know what you are going to end up with.. no two,pups in a cross bred litter will 100 percent resemble either parent ...often well bred pup from a same breed litter will cost less than a designer mix., and you will at least have an idea of what you are taking on.


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## BBP (16 December 2020)

Mrs Jingle said:



			All this puppy mill stuff breaks my heart. I can't tell you how ashamed I am of all the Irish puppy mills that flood the Uk and European market every single day of the year...how do they even smuggle that many in????

It isn't always the buyers fault though - Even after decades of owning and buying and even breeding pups (they both came to me accidentally in pup not intentionally bred I hastily add!) And I have worked in rescue here. 

I was caught myself in recent years. I researched as much as I could at that time  a breeder offering chocolate labs for sale - they ticked all the right boxes for being a responsible dog breeder, we went to see the pups and saw both parents and spent time with the woman and the litter.  Within a short few months we were concerned about the on/off limpin from our new pup.

 After a lot of vet work, including going to UCD Dublin for full xrays and consulting with an expert in the field, at less than a year old she was already showing significant signs of hip displacia on both sides and on one front elbow. The expert opinion was she had not been bred from health checked parents and probably was not from a responsible breeder. Her life span was going to be short and all we could do was keep her as comfortable as possible in that time.  Against all the odds with the help of our wonderful vets we kept her going almost pain free and very happily enjoying life until she just turned 6. At that point she became very ill and was taken in to be operated on and it would appear all the meds she had to be on over the years had literally eaten away half her stomach, it was inoperable and we took the decision to let her go while under anesthetic.  

Time had marched on, and over those 6 years we had all become more aware of puppy farms and to my horror when I did more research Coco's outwardly reputable and responsible breeder was now on a long list of scammers, churning out pups regardless of any health checks and illegally without licence.  I was devastated I had unwittingly added to their profit and help them fund yet more illegal and unscrupulous breeding of poorly sick pups destined for just a short and painful life.

So don't just assume these breeders are all scruffy little sheds on untidy and filthy premises, believe me they are not - some of them and their very convincing owners put up a first class front that can scam even the more experienced of us. All I can advise is now the internet is more open acccess to licensed premises, searching thoroughly online etc. etc. before you even bother to go and look. OH - and don't trust the parents pedigree either - we suspect neither of the ones we were shown for Coco's dam or sire were even genuine for those particular dogs. Heartbreaking. Word of mouth from someone you trust who has some experience in breeding is probably a good first point of call.

sorry so long - but it is something I feel very, very strongly about as you may have noticed lol!
		
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Oh absolutely, I can understand people getting caught still, as the scammers get smarter too. It’s more that this person just didn’t seem to do any research at all. Don’t get me wrong, she loves this puppy and it will get all the care it needs, it just grinds me that the ‘breeder’ has just cranked out a few puppies with by the sound of it no real care for the dog once the cash is handed over.

I have the same issue with people lining the pockets of dodgy horse dealers too. It might be a nice horse but I’m not handing over my cash to someone who kicks their dogs across the yard, drugs up horses and has them flinch every time he goes near them. It’s just supporting people who treat animals badly to restock with a few more. Anyway, I’m off tangent!


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## QuantockHills (16 December 2020)

CorvusCorax said:



			QH do you want another GSD? PM me your location/how far you want to travel (I could guess, but just in case...) and I can see if there's anything about.
		
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pm'd... i think!


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## meleeka (16 December 2020)

BBP said:



			That doesn’t seem a good choice at all! I got a collie as a first dog, which was equally daft, but I was prepared to put in the work and change my life to suit the dog.
		
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So did I.  I loved the bones of him and put in the work to make him fairly normal and he lived to a ripe old age.  Never again will I own a collie though 😂


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## misst (19 December 2020)

My hairdresser told me last week they were looking for a cavapoo as cavaliers are good with children but her husband did not want hair in the house. I said they might still shed depending on genetics and that I would either get a really well bred cavalier if that is what they want or a well bred poodle where they could also be sure of the "size" they were buying. 
Oh No! she said we want a cavapoo as they are so cute and as a cross they will not have health problems... I spoke about the syringomylia (spelling??) problems - no that will be fine if cross bred. I spoke about researching health checks needed for poodles. She said not to worry her husband had researched it all and they had found someone who guaranteed to breed healthy non shedders. She was adamant I was wrong. I gave up at that point and let her witter on until she said if they couldn't get a cavapoo the breeder could offer cockerpoos?! I suggested this was quite a high energy mix and could be less easy with small children but apparently this breeder breeds specially calm ones!!! They "definitely" will not be buying from a byb...


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## Clodagh (19 December 2020)

misst said:



			My hairdresser told me last week they were looking for a cavapoo as cavaliers are good with children but her husband did not want hair in the house. I said they might still shed depending on genetics and that I would either get a really well bred cavalier if that is what they want or a well bred poodle where they could also be sure of the "size" they were buying. 
Oh No! she said we want a cavapoo as they are so cute and as a cross they will not have health problems... I spoke about the syringomylia (spelling??) problems - no that will be fine if cross bred. I spoke about researching health checks needed for poodles. She said not to worry her husband had researched it all and they had found someone who guaranteed to breed healthy non shedders. She was adamant I was wrong. I gave up at that point and let her witter on until she said if they couldn't get a cavapoo the breeder could offer cockerpoos?! I suggested this was quite a high energy mix and could be less easy with small children but apparently this breeder breeds specially calm ones!!! They "definitely" will not be buying from a byb...
		
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Sometimes you just have to sit back and let it happen. Well done for trying.


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## horseman1985 (20 December 2020)

People are so people... Such a sad story


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## maisie06 (20 December 2020)

deb_l222 said:



			The first part of your post speaks volumes; she doesn't want a dog that gets dirty of sheds hair.  Hmmmm that's what dogs do, it's a fact of life.  Just because it's a 'poo' won't miraculously make it super clean 

It's so very sad but these lockdown pups and dogs must be doing OK because rescues are fairly empty at the moment, as are the stray kennels.  At least in this neck of the woods they are but only time will tell how long that will last when things get back to 'normal' next year.

s.
		
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It's because they are so easy to sell on at the moment for £££££'s to other idiots, one lady I know has just aquired a cocker that has been sold on 5 times since lockdown in march......luckily he now has a great home for life and she didn't pay a penny, the poor thing was given away for chewing furniture and nipping a child, no wonder as it has never even been walked let alone had any training, showing promise as a gundog though!


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## Clodagh (20 December 2020)

maisie06 said:



			It's because they are so easy to sell on at the moment for £££££'s to other idiots, one lady I know has just aquired a cocker that has been sold on 5 times since lockdown in march......luckily he now has a great home for life and she didn't pay a penny, the poor thing was given away for chewing furniture and nipping a child, no wonder as it has never even been walked let alone had any training, showing promise as a gundog though!
		
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That is all you can hope for for these dogs, that eventually they end up loved and well treated in a suitable home.


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## misst (20 December 2020)

Well our village website has just had a post asking if anyone knows if there are any puppies for sale... would prefer a small one as the children are not very old.... so far all sensible ideas/suggestions/instructions have been ignored and the poster seems to be happy with any random puppy as long as she can have one NOW. I am watching it with a facinated horror.


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## Amymay (20 December 2020)

misst said:



			Well our village website has just had a post asking if anyone knows if there are any puppies for sale... would prefer a small one as the children are not very old.... so far all sensible ideas/suggestions/instructions have been ignored and the poster seems to be happy with any random puppy as long as she can have one NOW. I am watching it with a facinated horror.
		
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Dear god 😒


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## misst (20 December 2020)

Amymay In A Manger said:



			Dear god 😒
		
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Well Amymay it is Christmas!! It's been pointed out that any reputable breeder will not be letting any puppies go this side of Christmas. She is still adamant she wants one. Still no specific breed/type etc. People have been really good with advice but it is being ignored. No doubt she will find one if she looks hard enough sadly.


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## Landcruiser (22 December 2020)

Clodagh said:



			That is so sad. Poor pups.
My husbands aunt and uncle, both mid 80s, he with cancer, got a springer spaniel x poodle. They only ever had show labs before, and no dog at all for 10 years. They can’t do a thing with it and it is now biting them.
		
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Oy! I have a springer-poo, my lovely faithful clever boy Neville. He's a super dog, does tricks, and is an excellent lorry dog. I met both his parents, saw springer mum with the litter and met pathetic looking apricot mini poodle dad who lived on the same farm - a racing stable. Nev's 9 now, I think things have changed a lot in those 9 years. But I had to jump in to defend the breed. We also have a fair few springerpoos coming into our vets, they don't stand out as a problem breed.

I was remarking only yesterday about the number of labradors we are seeing with problems, especially behavioral..


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## Clodagh (22 December 2020)

Landcruiser said:



			Oy! I have a springer-poo, my lovely faithful clever boy Neville. He's a super dog, does tricks, and is an excellent lorry dog. I met both his parents, saw springer mum with the litter and met pathetic looking apricot mini poodle dad who lived on the same farm - a racing stable. Nev's 9 now, I think things have changed a lot in those 9 years. But I had to jump in to defend the breed. We also have a fair few springerpoos coming into our vets, they don't stand out as a problem breed.

I was remarking only yesterday about the number of labradors we are seeing with problems, especially behavioral..
		
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I’m absolutely not blaming the breed other than being of inappropriate high energy ness. 😊


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## splashgirl45 (22 December 2020)

BUT they are crossbreeds and most are high energy and many seemed to be bought as a first dog and dont get the exercise they need or the training.  the few that i know who are owned by experienced people have had an awful lot of work put in to make them into well behaved companions...


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## nikicb (23 December 2020)

This just popped up on my FB newsfeed.  Puppy going blind, breeder not interested.  Well that probably says a lot about them.  Poor little pup.   




__ https://www.facebook.com/EmilyRoseGeorgeOx/posts/10219284266600559


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## ownedbyaconnie (23 December 2020)

misst said:



			My hairdresser told me last week they were looking for a cavapoo as cavaliers are good with children but her husband did not want hair in the house. I said they might still shed depending on genetics and that I would either get a really well bred cavalier if that is what they want or a well bred poodle where they could also be sure of the "size" they were buying.
Oh No! she said we want a cavapoo as they are so cute and as a cross they will not have health problems... I spoke about the syringomylia (spelling??) problems - no that will be fine if cross bred. I spoke about researching health checks needed for poodles. She said not to worry her husband had researched it all and they had found someone who guaranteed to breed healthy non shedders. She was adamant I was wrong. I gave up at that point and let her witter on until she said if they couldn't get a cavapoo the breeder could offer cockerpoos?! I suggested this was quite a high energy mix and could be less easy with small children but apparently this breeder breeds specially calm ones!!! They "definitely" will not be buying from a byb...
		
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Please tell me they are not getting it from a well known cavapoo/cockapoo breeder in Cheshire. This particular breeder churned out something like 200+ litters in 2019 😢.


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## FinnishLapphund (23 December 2020)

Nice Christmas Baubles said:



			This just popped up on my FB newsfeed.  Puppy going blind, breeder not interested.  Well that probably says a lot about them.  Poor little pup.   




__ https://www.facebook.com/EmilyRoseGeorgeOx/posts/10219284266600559



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Oh heck, poor little chap. Felt wrong to Like your post, so I didn't, but I hope they find his siblings owners.




ownedbyaconnie said:



			Please tell me they are not getting it from a well known cavapoo/cockapoo breeder in Cheshire. This particular breeder churned out something like 200+ litters in 2019 😢.
		
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Couldn't Like this post either. That's terrifying, and very sad, numbers.


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## nikicb (23 December 2020)

FinnishLapphund said:



			Oh heck, poor little chap. Felt wrong to Like your post, so I didn't, but I hope they find his siblings owners.
		
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It's so sad isn't it?   xx


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## misst (23 December 2020)

Ownedbyaconnie I think it is someone local Surrey/Hampshire borders. Quite a few from this woman locally☹️. To be fair they are all fairly nice if rather full on temperaments but she seems to make a lot of claims that seem somewhat far fetched or. Non shedding healthy due to being crossbred etc.


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## DressageCob (24 December 2020)

I hate the poo trend. I don’t find the dogs cute, and really struggle to see the appeal. Every cockerpoo I’ve ever met has been wussy, neurotic and difficult. Their coats never look properly groomed, with that awful layer of fluff with little wiry curls at the ends. My dog groomer says every cockerpoo they have in has to be clipped because their coats are high maintenance and the owners don’t put the work in.

I know someone who decided on a cockerpoo, looked on preloved, saw the typical story of “she’s a pet bitch and so nice we just had to have puppies from her” and parted company with £2k. Funnily enough same bitch just happens to have to have a further litter a year later. But of course it’s not about the money... 

I don’t understand people who are happy to spend that amount of money on an unknown entity. They never meet the stud, sometimes meet the bitch but not always. No health tests, no research into the breeds that form the cross, no research into the cross. It’s just irresponsible, both breeder and buyer.


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## ownedbyaconnie (24 December 2020)

DressageCob said:



			I hate the poo trend. I don’t find the dogs cute, and really struggle to see the appeal. Every cockerpoo I’ve ever met has been wussy, neurotic and difficult. Their coats never look properly groomed, with that awful layer of fluff with little wiry curls at the ends. My dog groomer says every cockerpoo they have in has to be clipped because their coats are high maintenance and the owners don’t put the work in.

I know someone who decided on a cockerpoo, looked on preloved, saw the typical story of “she’s a pet bitch and so nice we just had to have puppies from her” and parted company with £2k. Funnily enough same bitch just happens to have to have a further litter a year later. But of course it’s not about the money...

I don’t understand people who are happy to spend that amount of money on an unknown entity. They never meet the stud, sometimes meet the bitch but not always. No health tests, no research into the breeds that form the cross, no research into the cross. It’s just irresponsible, both breeder and buyer.
		
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Mabel takes great offence at your post 😉

do agree though that naïve owners think no moult=no maintenance. I spend a good majority of my life brushing Mabel. 

I’ve said it before on here and I’ll say it again, I think cockerpoos are a mix of two lovely breeds and Mabel is very clever, very loving, great with children, dogs, horses, our cat, can be left alone etc etc. It’s the fact they are marketed by puppy farms as the perfect easy family dog which they aren’t. They are treated like teddy bears because they look like toys and as a result are as you say, neurotic, crazy etc.

There’s no such thing as a bad dog, only bad owners.


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## Amymay (25 December 2020)

I’ve met plenty of ‘poos.  To a dog they’ve always been completely and utterly delightful, happy dogs.  With loving owners who adore them, look after them and have put the work in to train them.


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## JennBags (25 December 2020)

Amymay In A Manger said:



			I’ve met plenty of ‘poos.  To a dog they’ve always been completely and utterly delightful, happy dogs. * With loving owners who adore them, look after them and have put the work in to train them*.
		
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Gosh. It's almost like those 2 things are linked isn't it 🤣🤣
I don't have an issue with cross breeds, just the idiots who get them (and any puppy) thinking it's going to be easy.  It's hard work raising a puppy correctly, and if you don't put the work in, you won't get the desired results.
I sort of wish I hadn't opened this thread as it makes me so sad and also angry that people can be so stupid and it's always the dogs that suffer.


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## BBP (25 December 2020)

LotsOfGiftBags said:



			Gosh. It's almost like those 2 things are linked isn't it 🤣🤣
I don't have an issue with cross breeds, just the idiots who get them (and any puppy) thinking it's going to be easy.  It's hard work raising a puppy correctly, and if you don't put the work in, you won't get the desired results.
I sort of wish I hadn't opened this thread as it makes me so sad and also angry that people can be so stupid and it's always the dogs that suffer.
		
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Even though it’s my thread, I still feel a bit hypocritical as although I did my research and put in soooo much work, I still have a dog with challenges. The amount of effort I put in I ought to have the perfect dog!


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## skinnydipper (25 December 2020)

BBP said:



			Even though it’s my thread, I still feel a bit hypocritical as although I did my research and put in soooo much work, I still have a dog with challenges. The amount of effort I put in I ought to have the perfect dog!
		
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Don't beat yourself up, BBP.  We know how hard you have worked with him.   He is what he is and all respect to you for making him the best he can be.  Many people would have given up.


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## Landcruiser (28 December 2020)

Nev did get lots of training, he did obedience and agility before the kids got too old to force to take “their” dogs to classes. (He actually decided he was “my” dog from day 1). He’s clipped at home by me, scruffy as you please, hardly ever brushed, I just keep him short. Pic just because 😊


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## splashgirl45 (28 December 2020)

the look of the poo crosses doesnt appeal to me and i also dont like the texture of poo coats, but some friends do have them, and on the whole they are reasonably obedient, however they have put in the work to train them.  all puppies/dogs of whatever breed need plenty of attention and training so the poo crosses are no different but it seems that they are bought by so many people who think they are easy family dogs and they dont do the training or give them enough exercise and they end up with a nutcase.  its not the dogs fault  and i wonder how many will end up in rescues in the future after having a lockdown puppy loses its charm...


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## BBP (28 December 2020)

skinnydipper said:



			Don't beat yourself up, BBP.  We know how hard you have worked with him.   He is what he is and all respect to you for making him the best he can be.  Many people would have given up.
		
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Thank you. I think ours is a grounding story of what getting a puppy can really be like. The fantasy of an easy puppy who can come up to the stables and come out riding with me wasn’t the reality. He’s got his challenges, noise sensitivity, HATES the left wheel of all wheelie bins, has strong chase drive for everything other than toys so rarely off lead, can’t be trusted with the horses, doesn’t like other dogs in his face after this years attacks and he’s prone to anxiety, his confidence is easily dented. I think him coming into a household whilst I was suffering so badly with Lyme probably led to my anxiety transferring to him at quite an impressionable time for him. 

BUT hes three years old now and as long as I adapt our lives a little to accommodate his challenges he is a real joy to have around and has kept a smile on my face through this rough year. He’s a sweet, gentle, intelligent soul. I’ve certainly learned a huge amount about dogs, their behaviour and training over the last 3 years!


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## greygirlie (28 December 2020)

Before Christmas, when buying a trolley load of stuff from PetsatHome for my little whippet due to be picked up in a couple of weeks, the cashier told me that on regular occasions, people turned up with the puppy they'd just collected, asking what they needed.. presume they didn't do that when they had kids. Sigh. Poor dogs.


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## Odyssey (18 January 2021)

My breed of choice is greyhounds, which are such gorgeous sweet, gentle, undemanding dogs, and they have great personalities, some are real clowns. I have to say that I'm very anti racing for many welfare reasons, including the "culling" of some of the poor dogs that don't make the grade, which is disgusting and heartbreaking. 😠 However, they are bred for speed, health and temperament, so aren't prone to the health conditions that are so common in many breeds, so the ones lucky enough to end up in loving homes after racing generally lead long, healthy lives.

I abhor the practice of breeding fashionable dogs to basically suffer disabilities and ongoing health problems, like French bulldogs, because people think they look cute. I can't think of anything less cute than a poor deformed dog struggling to breathe all the time, it's incredibly cruel and must be very distressing to witness. At least I know my dogs have come from healthy stock, have been well socialised and will hopefully have a good quality of life. They're rarely difficult/neurotic, though a few are real "spooks" who need careful handling and training. I'm also very happy to be able to give a home to a dog that's been discarded once it's racing life is over, which is so wrong. I'll be very glad when greyhound racing dies out, as some of the dogs get a very raw deal, but must admit I hope the breed doesn't die out, because they're the most beautiful souls. I can't imagine having another breed now.


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## Clodagh (18 January 2021)

Odyssey said:



			I abhor the practice of breeding fashionable dogs to basically suffer disabilities and ongoing health problems, like French bulldogs, because people think they look cute. I can't think of anything less cute than a poor deformed dog struggling to breathe all the time, it's incredibly cruel and must be very distressing to witness..
		
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It's beyond belief, isn't it, that people choose a dog that cannot even cope with normal day to day life. Not all dogs need to be world beaters but they should all be fit for function, walking and breathing would be a fairly basic need you would think.


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## rabatsa (18 January 2021)

Odyssey said:



			My breed of choice is greyhounds, which are such gorgeous sweet, gentle, undemanding dogs, and they have great personalities, some are real clowns. I have to say that I'm very anti racing for many welfare reasons, including the "culling" of some of the poor dogs that don't make the grade, which is disgusting and heartbreaking. 😠 However, they are bred for speed, health and temperament, so aren't prone to the health conditions that are so common in many breeds, so the ones lucky enough to end up in loving homes after racing generally lead long, healthy lives.

I abhor the practice of breeding fashionable dogs to basically suffer disabilities and ongoing health problems, like French bulldogs, because people think they look cute. I can't think of anything less cute than a poor deformed dog struggling to breathe all the time, it's incredibly cruel and must be very distressing to witness. At least I know my dogs have come from healthy stock, have been well socialised and will hopefully have a good quality of life. They're rarely difficult/neurotic, though a few are real "spooks" who need careful handling and training. I'm also very happy to be able to give a home to a dog that's been discarded once it's racing life is over, which is so wrong. I'll be very glad when greyhound racing dies out, as some of the dogs get a very raw deal, but must admit I hope the breed doesn't die out, because they're the most beautiful souls. I can't imagine having another breed now.
		
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It is the teeth that are the problem with greyhounds.  They do not race on their teeth and can survive on mush.  My boy only has a few teeth left in his head.


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## Odyssey (18 January 2021)

rabatsa said:



			It is the teeth that are the problem with greyhounds.  They do not race on their teeth and can survive on mush.  My boy only has a few teeth left in his head.
		
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True, that is their weak point, their teeth need regular cleaning. One of my boys had had most of his teeth removed by the time he was old. I've started giving my dog ostrich bones to help keep his teeth clean. I was giving him antlers, but read that they can cause fractures to their teeth.😬 Finding things to clean their teeth is a minefield! Fortunately his teeth are pretty good for a greyhound.


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## ownedbyaconnie (18 January 2021)

Odyssey said:



			True, that is their weak point, their teeth need regular cleaning. One of my boys had had most of his teeth removed by the time he was old. I've started giving my dog ostrich bones to help keep his teeth clean. I was giving him antlers, but read that they can cause fractures to their teeth.😬 Finding things to clean their teeth is a minefield! Fortunately his teeth are pretty good for a greyhound.
		
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Our dog gets a carrot to act as a dental chew. Bit softer than antlers but still helps rub the plaque off! We also freeze them in summer. Although actually our carrots live in the garage so in winter can sometimes still be frozen 😂


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## Odyssey (18 January 2021)

ownedbyaconnie said:



			Our dog gets a carrot to act as a dental chew. Bit softer than antlers but still helps rub the plaque off! We also freeze them in summer. Although actually our carrots live in the garage so in winter can sometimes still be frozen 😂
		
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Haxha! I give him carrots too. I haven't given them to him frozen, but he's so greedy that he'd probably try to swallow them whole in frustration! Do you give them whole? I chop them into long chunks but don't know if this negates their cleaning benefits.


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## ownedbyaconnie (18 January 2021)

Odyssey said:



			Haxha! I give him carrots too. I haven't given them to him frozen, but he's so greedy that he'd probably try to swallow them whole in frustration! Do you give them whole? I chop them into long chunks but don't know if this negates their cleaning benefits.
		
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Whole but I keep an eye on her. She absolutely loves them so don’t know how much good they do as they don’t seem to last long 😂. God forbid the pony drops a bit out of her mouth when she gets one, Mabel sucks it up before pony even knows what’s happened.


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## Odyssey (18 January 2021)

ownedbyaconnie said:



			Whole but I keep an eye on her. She absolutely loves them so don’t know how much good they do as they don’t seem to last long 😂. God forbid the pony drops a bit out of her mouth when she gets one, Mabel sucks it up before pony even knows what’s happened.
		
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I'd love to see that, I think mine would do the same! 😁 I'll try giving them whole as that's probably better for cleaning their teeth.


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## Andie02 (18 January 2021)

Odyssey said:



			True, that is their weak point, their teeth need regular cleaning. One of my boys had had most of his teeth removed by the time he was old. I've started giving my dog ostrich bones to help keep his teeth clean. I was giving him antlers, but read that they can cause fractures to their teeth.😬 Finding things to clean their teeth is a minefield! Fortunately his teeth are pretty good for a greyhound.
		
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Have you tried Plaque Off   also
'Skippers'  air dried fish skin twirls, flatties etc.  chews.


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## paisley (19 January 2021)

Andie02 said:



			Have you tried Plaque Off   also
'Skippers'  air dried fish skin twirls, flatties etc.  chews.
		
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I can add dried beef tendons to the list (leg, not neck),  good for a fussy whippet with a sensitive tum


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## Penny Less (20 January 2021)

One of the local dog owners who lost their dog a few months ago, was bought a puppy by their son at Christmas!  They didnt want another dog as they decided they would like to travel more (I know its not happening at the mo) puppy was riddled with worms when they got it, not vaccinated.  It will have a good home luckily.


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## misst (23 January 2021)

I have liked that it got a good home not the condition of the pup! It's tragic the present state of the puppy market


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## Smitty (22 February 2021)

The people 4 doors down from me have managed to conceal their lock down puppy from me for 6 weeks!!  It is a JR x Whippet.   A friend of theirs 10 miles away bred it.  I am hoping they get sick of it - I want it... 😁


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## splashgirl45 (22 February 2021)

many years ago i met one of these,  it was like a miniature whippet and was gorgeous.  it doesnt seem to be a popular cross and i have never seen one advertised.  mind you the prey drive of both and the speed of a whippet could be lethal...


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## misst (22 February 2021)

Smitty said:



			The people 4 doors down from me have managed to conceal their lock down puppy from me for 6 weeks!!  It is a JR x Whippet.   A friend of theirs 10 miles away bred it.  I am hoping they get sick of it - I want it... 😁
		
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Sounds rather lovely but i expect will be very full on


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## Landcruiser (23 February 2021)

Smitty said:



			The people 4 doors down from me have managed to conceal their lock down puppy from me for 6 weeks!!  It is a JR x Whippet.   A friend of theirs 10 miles away bred it.  I am hoping they get sick of it - I want it... 😁
		
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We had one of these come in the vets for 1st vaccs the other day - adorable, favouring the whippet rather than the JRT I'd say. I wonder if this is a cross that's becoming popular?


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## BaronSamedi (24 February 2021)

Landcruiser said:



			Nev did get lots of training, he did obedience and agility before the kids got too old to force to take “their” dogs to classes. (He actually decided he was “my” dog from day 1). He’s clipped at home by me, scruffy as you please, hardly ever brushed, I just keep him short. Pic just because 😊
View attachment 62103

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Please can you tell me if you know what type of cross he is? He is very very like my brothers dog who was a abused puppy he rescued from vile people. Thankyou ps you dog is lovely


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## Smitty (24 February 2021)

Landcruiser said:



			We had one of these come in the vets for 1st vaccs the other day - adorable, favouring the whippet rather than the JRT I'd say. I wonder if this is a cross that's becoming popular?
		
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Would this be classed as a Lurcher I wonder ..


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## Smitty (24 February 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			many years ago i met one of these,  it was like a miniature whippet and was gorgeous.  it doesnt seem to be a popular cross and i have never seen one advertised.  mind you the prey drive of both and the speed of a whippet could be lethal...
		
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Yes, and good for lurcher racing 😊😊


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## Landcruiser (2 March 2021)

BaronSamedi said:



			Please can you tell me if you know what type of cross he is? He is very very like my brothers dog who was a abused puppy he rescued from vile people. Thankyou ps you dog is lovely
		
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He's a sproodle. Mom was a liver and white springer, dad was a pathetic looking apricot miniature poodle. I actually thought twice about having one of the pups when the sire was brought out, so glad we went ahead because he's a cracker


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## BaronSamedi (3 March 2021)

Landcruiser said:



			He's a sproodle. Mom was a liver and white springer, dad was a pathetic looking apricot miniature poodle. I actually thought twice about having one of the pups when the sire was brought out, so glad we went ahead because he's a cracker
		
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My brothers boy is Mini poodle size so I wonder if he could possibly be the same, I’d inbox you a picture but I don’t know how. Tito is the soppiest cuddliest loveliest boy ever when he has got to know you, but if he doesn’t like someone he goes full on aggressive snarl and bark. He hates men in hi viz and also in Royal Mail uniforms. He even barks a women in hi viz but never women in plain clothes


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## FinnishLapphund (3 March 2021)

BBP said:



			Even though it’s my thread, I still feel a bit hypocritical as although I did my research and put in soooo much work, I still have a dog with challenges. The amount of effort I put in I ought to have the perfect dog!
		
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skinnydipper said:



			Don't beat yourself up, BBP.  We know how hard you have worked with him.   He is what he is and all respect to you for making him the best he can be.  Many people would have given up.
		
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Ditto Skinnydipper. 

A sensible/suitable dog owner is more likely to have a similar dog, but more likely isn't the same as always. Sometimes the problem actually is at the dog's end of the leash. 
Unscrupulous breeders who uses breeding animals with unsuitable temperament does exist. Besides, in rare cases perhaps nature's lottery is to blame, but regardless of the cause, even the most suitable owner can't always fix/manage a dog with congenital temperamental problems. 

And neither nature nor nurture is always a guarantee for that a dog won't react negatively to stuff which happens outside our control. 
So sometimes, like in BBP's case, a suitable/sensible owner can still end up with a dog with difficult challenges/problems.


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## skinnydipper (3 March 2021)

She did the right thing and asked Battersea to find a more suitable home for him.


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## Clodagh (3 March 2021)

I met a classic lock down pup on yesterdays walk, but all credit to the owner she was really trying. And doing well, he was an 8 month old collie, red and while, blue eyes, absolutely beautiful. She had him off lead and he came well when she called him and sat down on her feet (then on a lead) while we talked so I told her she was doing great. She said how hard it was, and she really wanted to take him to training but it was all shut and she couldn't really get on with you tube tutorials.
I think, on the whole, he'll be OK. I hope so, she obviously loved him.


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## Birker2020 (3 March 2021)

deb_l222 said:



			The first part of your post speaks volumes; she doesn't want a dog that gets dirty of sheds hair.  Hmmmm that's what dogs do, it's a fact of life.  Just because it's a 'poo' won't miraculously make it super clean 

It's so very sad but these lockdown pups and dogs must be doing OK because rescues are fairly empty at the moment, as are the stray kennels.  At least in this neck of the woods they are but only time will tell how long that will last when things get back to 'normal' next year.

Clodagh - that's very sad.  Sad for the couple but also sad for the dog because he just sounds frustrated and not living his best life.  They probably need to give him up now before the situation gets much worse and they get really hurt.  Poodles are highly intelligent dogs and combined with the idiocy of some springers, it's a recipe for disaster, just like it is with some cockerpoos.
		
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Already Dogs Trust have a new advert about rehoming Covid Dogs.  https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/changethetale/


I feel so sad for Bonzo found a happy home and Angelica and Pippa were rehomed together.


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## FinnishLapphund (3 March 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			pitballs are not an option in this country
		
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Pitballs? 

Anyway, I'm not sure Lucasnoel posted on the right thread. The question on this thread is not about choosing to buy a male or female dog, without about lockdown leading to more people buying unsuitable dogs. 
But by the way, last I heard, in general neutered females lives longer than male dogs. 

And, regardless if Pitbulls is banned in the country you live in or not, regardless if it's lockdown or not, it would be very difficult for anyone to convince me that whether a Pitbull is red or blue nosed would have anything to do with if they're a suitable breed for a person to own or not.


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## Amymay (3 March 2021)

I suggest you to go for Pitbulls
		
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Banned in the UK.


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## asmp (3 March 2021)

Just had a nose on the Dogs Trust. I’m not a dog person and prefer cats but I was surprised how many times it says homes mustn’t have any visiting children 😮


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## CorvusCorax (3 March 2021)

Only reply to bots if you're going to have fun with them


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## Birker2020 (3 March 2021)

asmp said:



			Just had a nose on the Dogs Trust. I’m not a dog person and prefer cats but I was surprised how many times it says homes mustn’t have any visiting children 😮
		
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Yes it noticed that too.  I think it's sad that dogs have to have these labels thus lessening their chances of a successful rehoming.  I think it's a bit of arse covering to be honest, on the part of the Dogs Trust.


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## CorvusCorax (3 March 2021)

It'll be to cover themselves legally. Why would they risk a child getting hurt?
We can't all say 'that's awful, how did that happen' when a child is attacked, then encourage rescues to exclude vital information just to get a dog out of kennels.


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## Birker2020 (3 March 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			It'll be to cover themselves legally. Why would they risk a child getting hurt?
We can't all say 'that's awful, how did that happen' when a child is attacked, then encourage rescues to exclude vital information just to get a dog out of kennels.
		
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No I appreciate that.


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## splashgirl45 (3 March 2021)

this is my lockdown puppy, a terrier mix who so far has been pretty good.  even though my other terrier is only 3 1/2, i had forgotten how much hard work a puppy is and i have had dogs all of my life.  so many people these days seem to have no idea how much work even an easy puppy is so to buy a designer dog with health issues as well must be a nightmare and there are breeders who only see the money and are not bothered that the dogs cant breathe or have trouble walking...it would be nice if potential dog and horse owners had to pass a test before being allowed to,  never going to happen but would be a good idea...


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## DressageCob (4 March 2021)

Birker2020 said:



			Already Dogs Trust have a new advert about rehoming Covid Dogs.  https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/changethetale/

View attachment 67105
I feel so sad for Bonzo found a happy home and Angelica and Pippa were rehomed together.
		
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I wish I hadn't read that. Poor Bonzo. He must have been distraught that his human wouldn't wake and there was nothing he could do. I'm glad he was found. I hope he has a new home for his final years.


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## Birker2020 (4 March 2021)

DressageCob said:



			I wish I hadn't read that. Poor Bonzo. He must have been distraught that his human wouldn't wake and there was nothing he could do. I'm glad he was found. I hope he has a new home for his final years.
		
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I know it breaks your heart.  However his 'story' will be sure to pull on heart strings and he will be rehomed quickly I can bet!  I think the better 'angle' they can get on these rescue dogs the better although it's sad for them.


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## Tinkerbee (4 March 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			this is my lockdown puppy, a terrier mix who so far has been pretty good.  even though my other terrier is only 3 1/2, i had forgotten how much hard work a puppy is and i have had dogs all of my life.  so many people these days seem to have no idea how much work even an easy puppy is so to buy a designer dog with health issues as well must be a nightmare and there are breeders who only see the money and are not bothered that the dogs cant breathe or have trouble walking...it would be nice if potential dog and horse owners had to pass a test before being allowed to,  never going to happen but would be a good idea...
	View attachment 67109

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Oh 😍


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## Birker2020 (4 March 2021)

Tinkerbee said:



			Oh 😍
		
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Ahh bless, that looks a nice little dog.  Wish you the best.


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## Smitty (5 March 2021)

Saw one today going mountain biking with it's dad:   Whippet x Italian Greyhound, 11months old - I am sold..


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## [139672] (5 March 2021)

So sad. A friend of mine has wanted a dog for about 4 years. She started a new job about 2years ago, working from home all the time. She adores my dog Teddy, toy poodle, but we discussed different breeds and their needs. I explained about their coat, grooming and clipping. I clip and trim Teddy’s coat myself which saves a lot of money. She already has a cat so she wasn’t bothered about hair and she didn’t want a high energy breed that needed too long a walk each day. We discussed different breeds and I suggested she do lots of research on the breeds and maybe look at a few FB groups. She now has a 3month old d***shund and is getting on really well. She arranged 121 training as well. Teddy and I are looking forward to meeting them once restrictions allow 😊. Credit to my friend, she listened to all my advice and what we talked about.  She does like to have two holidays abroad each year and I’ve said that, provided our dogs get on well together (I wouldn’t leave them together alone even if they get on well) I’ll look after her dog when she goes on holiday. Love a happy ending 😊


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## chaps89 (6 March 2021)

Birker2020 said:



			Already Dogs Trust have a new advert about rehoming Covid Dogs.  https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/changethetale/

View attachment 67105
I feel so sad for Bonzo found a happy home and Angelica and Pippa were rehomed together.
		
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Have you heard their radio ad? I wasn't expecting it and it's pretty powerful!


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## Birker2020 (8 March 2021)

chaps89 said:



			Have you heard their radio ad? I wasn't expecting it and it's pretty powerful!
		
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Yes, sorry it was the radio ad I was referring to. 

Must be heartbreaking for owners but most of it is due to lack of foresight, i.e. if I can no longer work from home what will happen to the dog I have rehomed?  I know that things can happen at the best of times that are unexpected and put you in a quandry about 'what to do about the dog', my partner had to go into hospital and I said to my boss I either took my dog into work for a couple of weeks or I didn't come into work.  She came in to our site offices every day and lay under my desk for three weeks. Not much of a life for her, but what else could I have done?

I would have thought that prior to rehoming a dog this was a question that any possible adoptee would have asked themseleves.

And certainly the rehoming centres have an obligation to ask this question prior to relinquishing their ownership.  It's obvious that people would have to return to work at some point.

I know it's different if people are losing their jobs, my heart goes out to them in that situation.


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## Smitty (3 May 2021)

Smitty said:



			The people 4 doors down from me have managed to conceal their lock down puppy from me for 6 weeks!!  It is a JR x Whippet.   A friend of theirs 10 miles away bred it.  I am hoping they get sick of it - I want it... 😁
		
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Oh dear.     This last few days I have spent a good deal of time in my garden and have been very aware of a distressed howling that lasts up to a hour from a few doors down.  It sounds to me as though it's coming from outside.   I wonder if the lockdown puppy is now locked out 😐.


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## Amymay (3 May 2021)

Smitty said:



			Oh dear.     This last few days I have spent a good deal of time in my garden and have been very aware of a distressed howling that lasts up to a hour from a few doors down.  It sounds to me as though it's coming from outside.   I wonder if the lockdown puppy is now locked out 😐.
		
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Best go ask them


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## CorvusCorax (3 May 2021)

A dog I haven't seen since January, who's owner I told (among other things) to get him out and about and expose him to lots of different things, feed only from the hand/pocket, to basically control every aspect of his life because he was extremely reactive and insecure, almost had a chunk out of my arse yesterday when my back was turned.
Bought from a farm, parents seen 'in cages', no papers, was the only survivor of his litter apparently, and now potentially an absolute danger at just nine months old.
And on paper, not an unintelligent owner.
(The same advice was given as was in January, recieved as if revelatory).


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## Clodagh (3 May 2021)

Smitty said:



			Oh dear.     This last few days I have spent a good deal of time in my garden and have been very aware of a distressed howling that lasts up to a hour from a few doors down.  It sounds to me as though it's coming from outside.   I wonder if the lockdown puppy is now locked out 😐.
		
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Oh that is so sad. Maybe he can be yours one day...


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## Smitty (3 May 2021)

Amymay said:



			Best go ask them
		
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Well, yesterday I saw his neighbour having a conversation on the street with him.  Will ask him if he has heard anything.  Certainly the people at the end of our terrace have heard him howl for the last 5 days and say it sounds as though it's been shut in garden.  They said never seen it walked (I have, twice, but maybe they walk it in middle of night!) and said it was always being played with in garden at first but not seen it for ages.  

Will ask how they are getting on with him at earliest opportunity.  Lady at end of terrace is going to tactfully suggest playing fields over the road for exercise 😐


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## Smitty (3 May 2021)

Clodagh said:



			Oh that is so sad. Maybe he can be yours one day...
		
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Ha!!  Not sure I could pick him up, he may be slightly too heavy to lug over a 5 bar gate under one arm if the worst comes to the worst and my map reading goes wrong.


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## Mrs. Jingle (3 May 2021)

I am sitting here tutting about unsuitable owners buying very unsuitable puppies and dogs during lockdown, mentally telling myself I would NEVER buy pups or dogs during a lockdown type of situation, then realised I have actually bought 2 last year lol! In my defense we did lose out 6 year old lab and our very ancient little Patterdale within a month of each other last year and put adverts out on my FB business page and eventually ended up with these two hooligans.
My beautiful black lab girls Jem on the left a very, very pretty ex show dog who hated the show ring,  4 years old.  
Jess  on the right coincidentally also 4 years old,  but a field trials bred lab that we suspect probably just feffed off and did her own thing when she was supposed to be setting up snipe lol!

Cant believe my luck - we adore them and they adore us, almost too much, Jem in particular is very over protective with the family and has to be carefully supervised outside the home with people she doesn't know who come to close to us (in her opinion not ours!) .- they do have some minor issues but nothing we are not able to deal with day to day and they adore each other too. 😍🤩


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## Smitty (3 May 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			A dog I haven't seen since January, who's owner I told (among other things) to get him out and about and expose him to lots of different things, feed only from the hand/pocket, to basically control every aspect of his life because he was extremely reactive and insecure, almost had a chunk out of my arse yesterday when my back was turned.
Bought from a farm, parents seen 'in cages', no papers, was the only survivor of his litter apparently, and now potentially an absolute danger at just nine months old.
And on paper, not an unintelligent owner.
(The same advice was given as was in January, recieved as if revelatory).
		
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What breed is this dog CC?   Just curious.  As for owners on paper, had a very eventful walk with a friend and her 1 year old black lab bitch yesterday.   I have to say it was bloody awful walk and the dog left a trail of growling, barking and traumatised dogs and owners behind it as it was just being friendly and wanted to say  hello😟.   This is her 4th dog.


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## CorvusCorax (3 May 2021)

Smitty said:



			What breed is this dog CC?   Just curious.  As for owners on paper, had a very eventful walk with a friend and her 1 year old black lab bitch yesterday.   I have to say it was bloody awful walk and the dog left a trail of growling, barking and traumatised dogs and owners behind it as it was just being friendly and wanted to say  hello😟.   This is her 4th dog.
		
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GSD. It is getting referred to someone who actually charges for the pleasure and owner has been advised to take it to the vet as it is so hyper-alert (barking straight out of the car) I'd query a pain response. Probably a cheap/easily available dog that will wind up being expensive one way or the other.


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## CorvusCorax (3 May 2021)

Mrs Jingle said:



			I am sitting here tutting about unsuitable owners buying very unsuitable puppies and dogs during lockdown, mentally telling myself I would NEVER buy pups or dogs during a lockdown type of situation, then realised I have actually bought 2 last year lol! In my defense we did lose out 6 year old lab and our very ancient little Patterdale within a month of each other last year and put adverts out on my FB business page and eventually ended up with these two hooligans.
My beautiful black lab girls Jem on the left a very, very pretty ex show dog who hated the show ring,  4 years old.  
Jess  on the right coincidentally also 4 years old,  but a field trials bred lab that we suspect probably just feffed off and did her own thing when she was supposed to be setting up snipe lol!

Cant believe my luck - we adore them and they adore us, almost too much, Jem in particular is very over protective with the family and has to be carefully supervised outside the home with people she doesn't know who come to close to us (in her opinion not ours!) .- they do have some minor issues but nothing we are not able to deal with day to day and they adore each other too. 😍🤩
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I got a puppy too but I own her father so I knew she was going to be a looney tune 😂 all were booked before birth.

I don't think there's any issue with people acquiring dogs, more people getting them for the wrong reasons/unsuitable breed or type/not doing their research.
As mentioned previously, during lockdown, people I know who showed no interest in dogs previously, have rushed out to buy dogs, didn't put the extra legroom in to socialise them during these unusual times (mine is relatively babyish as a result but we're finally getting a bit of focus and engagement under distraction) and are now going back to work.


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## Smitty (3 May 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			GSD. It is getting referred to someone who actually charges for the pleasure and owner has been advised to take it to the vet as it is so hyper-alert (barking straight out of the car) I'd query a pain response. Probably a cheap/easily available dog that will wind up being expensive one way or the other.
		
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Thank you.  Why would you question pain response on reactivity getting out of the car?    Are you thinking along the lines of its breeding producing the neurotic behaviour?

I am ever so interested in this nature/nurture thing.  My little terrier type came from a very unscientific background and yet is very laid back, although the mix visible in him  could be quite challenging.  I can't believe it was due to me.  He just seemed to have a calm nature from day one, but totally inexhaustible for years if that makes sense.


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## CorvusCorax (3 May 2021)

Smitty said:



			Thank you.  Why would you question pain response on reactivity getting out of the car?    Are you thinking along the lines of its breeding producing the neurotic behaviour?
		
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I would query a pain response because the dog was at no point relaxed, it was constantly looking for things to vent on/at...people in the distance, dogs minding their own business in vehicles, crows, me bending over to pick something up. None of these things should be perceived as a threat. A dog in constant pain, when it doesn't know what is causing the pain, may display extreme behaviour because it links discomfort with whatever it is looking at (Is HE hurting me? Is it THAT?).

But as a generalisation, that sort of behaviour is absolutely genetic, the dog has no strength of nerve whatsoever. I have seen plenty of dogs who have led pretty sheltered lives and/or are living with pain which don't freak out over completely innocuous things, because they have innate mental stability.
Poor temperament/weak nerve used to mean a dog wouldn't be bred from but now it doesn't seem to matter.
To paraphrase a great trainer, when this dog is stressed, 'he reaches back for help from his ancestors, but there is no one there'.


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## Smitty (3 May 2021)

CorvusCorax said:



			I would query a pain response because the dog was at no point relaxed, it was constantly looking for things to vent on/at...people in the distance, dogs minding their own business in vehicles, crows, me bending over to pick something up. None of these things should be perceived as a threat. A dog in constant pain, when it doesn't know what is causing the pain, may display extreme behaviour because it links discomfort with whatever it is looking at (Is HE hurting me? Is it THAT?).

But as a generalisation, that sort of behaviour is absolutely genetic, the dog has no strength of nerve whatsoever. I have seen plenty of dogs who have led pretty sheltered lives and/or are living with pain which don't freak out over completely innocuous things, because they have innate mental stability.
Poor temperament/weak nerve used to mean a dog wouldn't be bred from but now it doesn't seem to matter.
To paraphrase a great trainer, when this dog is stressed, 'he reaches back for help from his ancestors, but there is no one there'.
		
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Thank you for that.  VERY interesting.


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## CorvusCorax (3 May 2021)

Smitty said:



			Thank you for that.  VERY interesting.
		
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NP! I've been lucky to observe lots of different dogs in training and nothing will convince me that reactivity/response to stress isn't genetic (as are a lot of other things). 
It's not an excuse not to socialise or not to try and fix/manage/influence it and of course some behaviour can come from bad experiences, but you have a better chance if the dog is calm and confident by nature to begin with/it will recover better.


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