# Whistle for recall?



## Fiona (27 April 2016)

Me again asking another question after puppy class. 

I asked about using a whistle for recall and was told no. Not a 'no we don't need one inside for short distances' but just a straight no. 

However my Total Recall book and Ian Dunbar puppy book both recommend a whistle for recall and I had started to introduce one in conjunction with calling her..

Do I keep going with whistle for outside recall training or not? 

Fiona


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## NiceNeverNaughty (27 April 2016)

it doesn&#8217;t matter what you use for recall, name, whistle, rude word, whatever you like...  as long as you are absolutely consistent and time rewards well. Do choose one thing and stick with it though, don&#8217;t use one thing in conjunction with another.


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## Dry Rot (28 April 2016)

The advantages to a whistle are that the tone doesn't vary (so the dog cannot easily 'read' your mood), it can be heard over a long distance, and you can still blow it even if you are out of breath!

I use both the whistle, my voice, and a hand signal, all together, in every day use. So "Peeep" + "Come here" - plus body language to encourage the dog to approach. Chaining commands like this is a really good way of introducing a new 'trigger' or even a new name. Call Fido/Fred and drop the one you don't want and the dog will transfer to the alternative. Shout "Sit!" just as a bird flushes and you will teach your dog to Sit at the flush. To simulate a flush, you can roll  a tennis ball. Your world is limited only by your imagination. Once ypou get the idea, dog training is easy.


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## planete (28 April 2016)

I am slightly weary of pet owners who use a whistle.  Around here there is a joke that whistle=out of control dog.  You hear frantic nearly continuous whistling while dog happily careers around totally oblivious.  I actually stopped using a whistle as my dogs would look confused when hearing other people's whistles and I was worried they would respond if out of sight.  Most pet owners buy one of the acme whistles available and two whistles with the same tone sound exactly the same unlike voices.  If you are going to do specialist training like gundog training then you will have to use a whistle but you will probably not be in the same patch as the everyday dog walkers.


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## Dry Rot (28 April 2016)

American field trialers (of wide ranging pointers and setters) whistle frequently. That's so their dogs will know where they are and give them the confidence to range wider! If you want your dog to stay in touch, give one peep on the whistle, disappear occasionally, and make them come to look for you! If you follow your whistled signal with a bit of body language (a hand signal?), the dog will just check back with a glance and not be distracted by other people's whistles. Of course, some dogs will just ignore the lot!


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## Chiffy (28 April 2016)

Both my flatcoats ar whistle trained but the older one did a year of obedience classes before the whistle was introduced. As a puppy I did the whole crouch down, arms wide, call 'come' thing. Then gradually stand and using hands to guide to a sit in front of me. Her recall was established when a whistle was added and then used for gun dog work. 
The younger dog learnt whistle recall much earlier copying the older dog.
I don't use the whistle on Pet type dog walks, parks etc with others around but when the dogs are ranging further away or even round a corner out of site. Much better than shouting. 'Come' is 3 short pips, 'sit where you are' (stop whistle) is one long pip.


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## satinbaze (28 April 2016)

A whistle can be used for much more than just a recall. With s combination of shirt and long peeps my old FCR did recall, instant sit, instant down, left redirect, right redirect etc. When I bred a litter each puppy went to their new homes with an acme gundog whistle as they all recalled to it. IMHO whistles are brill


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## Thistle (28 April 2016)

I use a whistle for the spaniel, actually the pet dogs also respond to a whistle for all the reasons above. I introduce it from day 1. I took spaniel to puppy class in a local village hall as he was scared of new dogs. Whistles weren't allowed. What annoyed me was one man whose iPhone constantly whistled and puppy was trying to work out what his phone was doing.

I use 1 sharp pip to stop, 2 for turn/quarter and 3 or 5 depending on whether I think dog has heard for recall. Spaniels are supposed to work quite close so he is never allowed out of sight.

I also reward any 'checking in' that the dog offers if the dog is bold and wanting to hunt away. With a more clingy dog I wouldn't reward the checking in so much.


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## lindsay1993 (28 April 2016)

I've never used a whistle. I have 3 dogs, 2 springer spaniels and a springer x border terrier. 

I prefer use of the voice as I can call each dog individually and give individual commands at distance. I suppose that could be achieved with a whistle, I just find the voice commands easier??

My 3 respond well to different tones of voice as well as hand signals at distance and close. They are never allowed further from where they can see or hear me. But I imagine a whistle would be better for very long distance recall/commands.


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## Goldenstar (28 April 2016)

I have trained my current pup to recall from a whistle ,voice and hand signals.
Just train him with it at home and do what they do at classes .
I took my last dog pup to classes to socialise him away from our pack .
It was a treat based system he quickly learnt he got treats at class not at home it did not harm him at all.


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## Fiona (28 April 2016)

Dry rot has summarised why my book says that to use a whistle is best   Dad and I do a lot of walking in the local forest park, where the dogs can occasionally (now that dad has a new border collie who runs like the wind) be out of sight, and a whistle combined with shouting their names works really well.....

Thanks folks for all your replies, I'll keep going with the whistle outside, and name plus body language for a short distance recall inside.

We don't tend to go to places where there might be multiple whistles being blown, if its that hectic ours will probably be on lead.  

So glad I have HHO dog peeps to keep me right... 

Fiona


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## Clodagh (28 April 2016)

I find whistle much easier - mainly because, as DR says, if you really want to strangle the little ****** it can't tell if you are whistling! However much you try to sound friendly they can tell if you are stressed or not. I always expect instant recall on a sharp 'pip, pip, pip' and if it is ignored I would not keep calling but would try to sneak up close enough to the dog or hide in order to scare it, whichever was most likely to work.


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## Fiona (28 April 2016)

That must have been very annoying Thistle 

Clodagh - the night she was stood in the middle of the road my voice must have been 100% panicstricken, so thats a good point about whistle..

Fiona


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## Dry Rot (28 April 2016)

Don't forget that less is more. Don't whistle too much, keep your dog guessing! Make them find you, not the other way around. A pip on the whistle tells the dog you are going to do something unpredicatble -- like change direction or hide behind a tree -- so they'd better catch up/come back to mum before she disappers!


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## PorkChop (28 April 2016)

Mine are trained to stop/turn/recall on the whistle, like Dry Rot I use the whistle in conjunction with voice and/or hand signals.

Choose something and stick with it


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## Fiona (28 April 2016)

Yes just once dry rot... a pip pip pip. They were both fantastic at the forest on Tuesday and turned back towards me as soon as they heard it. 

LJR - but its ok to use voice only for short distances at class and at home and whistle for longer distances or at forest? Book seemed to suggest that it was..

Fiona


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## PorkChop (28 April 2016)

Once you have trained the commands it matters not a jot how or where you use them as long as you are sure that they will obey them.

Every new command needs to be taught close and then the distances built up.

Sorry if this isn't what you were asking, I am no expert


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## Fiona (28 April 2016)

Not exactly, but I know what you mean..

I may have taught a decent recall from a moderate distance away but I haven't proofed it with other dogs yet... Thats my next job. 

Fiona


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## Thistle (28 April 2016)

Fiona said:



			Not exactly, but I know what you mean..

I may have taught a decent recall from a moderate distance away but I haven't proofed it with other dogs yet... Thats my next job. 

Fiona
		
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Remember the 3 D's. Difficulty, Distance and Distraction and only change one at a time.


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## Fiona (29 April 2016)

Thanks Thistle - good tip 

Fiona


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## Snuffles (29 April 2016)

I use a whistle, my own lips not a physical whistle ! I cant do the fingers in the mouth whistle though. I do a two tone whistle and then call name at the moment, but will then just whistle, its easier on the voice that shouting !


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## druid (29 April 2016)

Mine are all trained to a whistle - gundogs though. I hate hearing lots of shouting and roaring when a soft pip-pip-pip will do. I'd disagree with the person who thinks all acme whistles sound the same. The tone is the same but they whistle the owner gives is very individual....in Spaniel trials we hunt two dogs side by side and each handler is usually using an acme 211.5 and you don't see the dogs responding to the wrong whistle. Same in a beating line!


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## Clodagh (29 April 2016)

druid said:



			Mine are all trained to a whistle - gundogs though. I hate hearing lots of shouting and roaring when a soft pip-pip-pip will do. I'd disagree with the person who thinks all acme whistles sound the same. The tone is the same but they whistle the owner gives is very individual....in Spaniel trials we hunt two dogs side by side and each handler is usually using an acme 211.5 and you don't see the dogs responding to the wrong whistle. Same in a beating line!
		
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I had a problem last season, the other picker up has a wild couple of dogs. I sent mine after a runner and she went but other picker up started frantic peeping two fields over, my dog slowed and sat, really having no idea what she had done wrong. It was not a whistle signal I had ever used but she obviously though she must be involved, poor little dog. We had to wait until the end of the drive and go find the bird. I hope as mine was only on her first season's work she will mature and not listen!


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## druid (30 April 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I had a problem last season, the other picker up has a wild couple of dogs. I sent mine after a runner and she went but other picker up started frantic peeping two fields over, my dog slowed and sat, really having no idea what she had done wrong. It was not a whistle signal I had ever used but she obviously though she must be involved, poor little dog. We had to wait until the end of the drive and go find the bird. I hope as mine was only on her first season's work she will mature and not listen!
		
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Do you train with others? I only see this an issue where the dog never runs in tests or trials and is trained solo (and fair enough, it's hard to manage anything else sometimes!) - they never hear another whistle so don't discern!


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## Clodagh (30 April 2016)

druid said:



			Do you train with others? I only see this an issue where the dog never runs in tests or trials and is trained solo (and fair enough, it's hard to manage anything else sometimes!) - they never hear another whistle so don't discern!
		
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That is probably the problem.


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## Thistle (30 April 2016)

Clodagh said:



			That is probably the problem.
		
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We must get together and train, my spaniel needs to learn to like water!


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## Clodagh (30 April 2016)

Tawny is thoroughly qualified to teach him, keeping her out is the problem. Bring him over sometime?


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## Alec Swan (30 April 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I had a problem last season, the other picker up has a wild couple of dogs. &#8230;&#8230;.. !
		
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It's certainly true that the truly wild-arsed dogs can be the best game-finders,  but the disruptive effect that they will almost always have on dogs which are under control can be irritating,  at best.  With dogs which are young but under control and at the point of riot,  it can be ruining.  I won't pick-up where there are others who have dogs which please themselves.

Alec.


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## Clodagh (30 April 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			It's certainly true that the truly wild-arsed dogs can be the best game-finders,  but the disruptive effect that they will almost always have on dogs which are under control can be irritating,  at best.  With dogs which are young but under control and at the point of riot,  it can be ruining.  I won't pick-up where there are others who have dogs which please themselves.

Alec.
		
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Thankfully I am never in line of sight. They aren't that bad...they don't run in but when sent for a retrieve are determined to just keep looking.


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## Cinnamontoast (30 April 2016)

Saves you losing your voice. My lot are trained to recall on 3 short pips and this got them back when they escaped the garden and went roving round the local park (across a main road) one time and stopped them galloping onto a main road during another escape. So ruddy naughty as youngsters! 

A woman I knew used to whistle her horse from the top of the hill, saved her a long walk!


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## Alec Swan (1 May 2016)

I find the plastic Acme whistles uncomfortable to use,  the plastic burns my tongue,  and I find the whistle note to be a bit soft.  Turner Richards produce excellent whistles in cow horn and they have a harder and sharper note,  I think.  Because sheepdogs can sometimes need instruction at 5-600 yards,  most who keep sheep and dogs tend to use a shepherd's whistle.  They take a bit of getting used to,  but the tone and pitch are variable and almost as a musical instrument!  I now use a shepherd's whistle for all dogs,  and it seems to work fairly well when they listen!

As with all things 'dog',  there are no magical tools or aids,  the attention of the dog needs to be focused on the owner,  and the key to that,  generally,  is 'consistency'.

Alec.


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## Cinnamontoast (1 May 2016)

I like the Acme, I have a purple one, matches my hands in the winter. Oddly, the dogs went deaf this morning at the river, first swim in a long time, funny that. 

The shepherd's whistle is fab, so loud! We used it to call for the naughty ones when they escaped in the woods one time.


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## Fiona (1 May 2016)

Shepherd  whistle  sounds fab Alec..

I have an Acme 211.5 and a metal clix one too. She seems to respond  to both..

I called  her away from food on the table this morning  which is supposed  to be one of the harder exercises  in the total  recall  book and she came first  time  

However  yesterday  I had to go back and get her as she was licking something  no doubt disgusting  off the gravel beach at the lake, so not foolproof  yet..

F iona


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## Clodagh (1 May 2016)

I would say with the labs we have 100% recall, we can call them off a retrieve, another dog, a running anything blah blah blah...but a rotten carcass for either rolling on or eating and they go completely deaf...
With the lurcher when she could hear you couldn't always tell and now she is really deaf I just save my breath.


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## Thistle (1 May 2016)

Clodagh said:



			Tawny is thoroughly qualified to teach him, keeping her out is the problem. Bring him over sometime?
		
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Will do


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## Dry Rot (1 May 2016)

When I was field trialing, I was rather fussy about whistles. A shepherd's whistle is fine. You can make your own from a piece of bent tin with a hole in it! But they are not the easiest to blow if you are out of breath.

I found a design that suited me perfectly. Not only that, they were right in my price bracket at 30p each! But there were two problems. First, they were made of a rather soft plastic and got chewed up. I clench my teeth in times of stress and running hot bird dogs can be stressful. Second, the supplied dried up and I couldn't find them on sale anywhere after I'd chewed up my meagre supply. So I wrote to Acme about my problems. I got a very enthusiastic and excited reply from the managing director. Apparently, not many are interested enough about whistles to write in about them!

He told me that they'd actually stopped production of that design and scrapped the mould. But he did send me one whistle that was perfect, with a warning. He told me it was made of a very hard plastic that would smash if I dropped it as it was like glass! Of course, after a year of use, it shattered! But it really was good while it lasted.

There's a wider selection of whistles about these days and I did get a supply from the USA that suited my particular requirements with such a piercing tone that, if blown hard, would actually hurt your ears! But I wouldn't bother with a whistle like that unless wanting to control a dog several hundred yards away. The Acme 201, if they still make it, should be powerful enough for handling most gundogs. Stag horn whistles are good too, but the tone can vary and change with the age of the horn as it deteriorates.

It all seems a bit sad now, but a good whistle really can make a difference if you are keen on working dogs!


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## Alec Swan (1 May 2016)

Dry Rot,  you're thoughts on whistles,  are interesting!  The best whistle that I ever heard was owned by an Irish lady-shepherd.  No whistle at all,  it was just her mouth,  and without pursed lips.  The next best is one that I have now which was made for me as a gift by a highly skilled stick maker,  and of ivory.  The piercing pitch is as sharp as glass!  It's too valuable to use and lose though.

I always used,  as you have,  stag-horn whistles,  but as you say,  they seem to deteriorate.  I suspect that rather than the stag-horn it's the wooden plug which fails.  I still have one from 40 years ago complete with the teeth marks from taking a firm grip,  but all that I get is a rush of air!  It still hangs with the rest though reminding me of some happy and fretful spaniel-days! 

Have you ever tried the Turner Richards cow horn whistles?  I'll send you one unused,  if you wish!

Alec.


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## Dry Rot (2 May 2016)

Yes, I know the ivory whistles, though I've never been fortunaye enough to own one, also the buffalo horn ones which are excellent. With the GSDs, I just use my mouth as I keep them in range. Field trialing pointers and setters is a young man's sport and, to my mind, they've ruined them now with their petty rules and regulations but don't get me going on that! Anyway, running up a heather bank when your young dog has disappeared over the top used to be a regular occurrence and if you hadn't enough puff left to blow the whistle when you got to the top it could set training back a month!  Grouse shooting is so expensive now that access to suitable training ground is next to impossible anyway. I still have my landyard hanging up in the kitchen with the last one of those soft plastic whistles, the American ear buster, and the Acme silent whistle, but don't use them -- though I probably should. The ear buster was the ultimate deterrent, though people always asked why I had three whistles. I thought that would be obvious -- one to go, one to stop, and the third for reverse!  Yes, the Acme 200 series are a bit like those dental gags the vets use to file a horse's teeth! But the trick to using a whistle is to use it as little as possible and just use body language.

The Aussies always made their own shepherd's whistles. The raw material was the tin lid off something (tabacco tin?) and it's annoying me that I can't remember what! The hole was punched with a 6 inch nail! That always appealed to my penny pinching nature but I never really got the hang of them.


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## druid (2 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			I find the plastic Acme whistles uncomfortable to use,  the plastic burns my tongue,  and I find the whistle note to be a bit soft.  Turner Richards produce excellent whistles in cow horn and they have a harder and sharper note,  I think.  Because sheepdogs can sometimes need instruction at 5-600 yards,  most who keep sheep and dogs tend to use a shepherd's whistle.  They take a bit of getting used to,  but the tone and pitch are variable and almost as a musical instrument!  I now use a shepherd's whistle for all dogs,  and it seems to work fairly well when they listen!

As with all things 'dog',  there are no magical tools or aids,  the attention of the dog needs to be focused on the owner,  and the key to that,  generally,  is 'consistency'.

Alec.
		
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Cow horn/Buffalo horn/Ivory/Antler whistles are lovely to look at but the tone is not reproduced from one to another simply because they are a natural material. Not great  if the dogs spends years on the one whistle and it finally breaks and a new one has to be acquired!

The acme 212 works well out to 600-750 yards (American retriever distances!) and is designed for such. The new W25 whistles are giving Acme a run for their money also.


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## Alec Swan (2 May 2016)

D_R,  I can play God Save the Queen on my shepherd's whistle (sort of)!   See?  I knew that I'd come in useful for something! 

Alec.


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## Dry Rot (2 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			D_R,  I can play God Save the Queen on my shepherd's whistle (sort of)!   See?  I knew that I'd come in useful for something! 

Alec.
		
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And so you should on her 90'th! 

One for Britain's Got Talent, perhaps?


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## Alec Swan (2 May 2016)

druid said:



			Mine are all trained to a whistle - gundogs though. I hate hearing lots of shouting and roaring when a soft pip-pip-pip will do. I'd disagree with the person who thinks all acme whistles sound the same. The tone is the same but they whistle the owner gives is very individual....in Spaniel trials we hunt two dogs side by side and each handler is usually using an acme 211.5 and you don't see the dogs responding to the wrong whistle. Same in a beating line!
		
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An interesting point,  but I strongly suspect that a hunting dog knows exactly where the handler is and so they take the direction that the whistle comes from,  and or,  it's that we all blow a whistle in a slightly different fashion.  Whatever it is,  two identical whistles and for two dogs hunting will have each respond to their 'own'.  How or why it works as it does,  I'm not sure! 

Alec.


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## planete (2 May 2016)

Thinking about it, I never call my lurchers when they are out of sight, I expect them to find me, so no shouting.  If I change direction when they are within sight, I expect them to take their cue from me, in fact if I want them to change course, I change course first.  But then we do not do gun work or competitions, a totally different mindset.


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## Clodagh (2 May 2016)

planete said:



			Thinking about it, I never call my lurchers when they are out of sight, I expect them to find me, so no shouting.  If I change direction when they are within sight, I expect them to take their cue from me, in fact if I want them to change course, I change course first.  But then we do not do gun work or competitions, a totally different mindset.
		
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I never used to call my lurcher as it was a waste of time and my OH went mad when she killed things, so it was best not to draw his attention to the fact she was missing. I find it much easier having dogs that behave!!


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## planete (2 May 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I never used to call my lurcher as it was a waste of time and my OH went mad when she killed things, so it was best not to draw his attention to the fact she was missing. I find it much easier having dogs that behave!!
		
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I think mine prefer watching TV and chasing balls!


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## Clodagh (2 May 2016)

planete said:



			I think mine prefer watching TV and chasing balls!  

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Much safer!


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