# Harassment by the antis - anyone ever heard of this?



## emma bates (23 March 2010)

A person in my village told me that one day the antis used their own padlocks to lock all the gates, making it really difficult to move vehicles and horses?  Is this something they really do and have any of you experienced this problem first hand?


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## muffinino (23 March 2010)

Not had experience of being locked in before going hunting but my hunt got locked in a field a couple of weeks ago when out visiting another hunt. The antis didn't think about what would happen to the hounds if the huntsman couldn't get to them; never mind if they disappear, get lost in strange country or get run over because there's nobody with them. F*cktards.


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## UnaB (23 March 2010)

Thats crazy!  Never heard of that before either..  Though, its not the most effective method of stopping a hunt as all you need is some really strong bolt cutter things lol.

I have no respect for the "antis" at all, after watching one of them drive their range rover at my friends horse (narrowly missing my own) during a hunt and breaking its leg so it had to be put down, i question their "animal loving" morals...


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## combat_claire (23 March 2010)

Unfortunately this isn't the only braindead 'tactic' that has been employed by self-styled hunt saboteurs. There has been a long record pre-ban of anti-hunting activists stealing or releasing hounds and horses from hunt premises and leaving them to wander the roads; graffiti has been daubed on property, paint stripper poured on vehicles and a website I stumbled across and run by hunt sabs in Surrey listed addresses of people who just happened to be indirectly linked with hunting including parents of huntsmen and pub landlords who had hosted meets. 

Other nasty tactics have included desecration of graves, attempting to exhume the Duke of Beaufort and smashing the headstone of John Peel's grave. 

Most serious of all they attempt to wrest control of the pack from the huntsman using recordings of hunting horn calls. The Fitzwilliam led the way by obtaining an injunction against a saboteur using a defence known as 'trespass of goods' - this has led other hunts including the Portman to follow suit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...n-by-blowing-horns-and-hallooing-1504580.html

In the interests of balance I should point out that the pro-hunting side are not always squeaky clean and no matter what side of the debate you come from I abhor violence and intimidation over an issue, which on the grand scale of things is pretty trivial. To date three people from both sides of the divide have died in direct action and for me that is three too many.


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## HCkernow (23 March 2010)

We went to a hunt ball years ago and all the 4x4's at the hotel were sprayed with paint stripper. While we were at another function, end of season i think, the hotel got a phone call (presumably from the antis) to say the kennels were on fire!!! We've had tyres slashed out whilst we've been hunting, brakes tampered with on trailers etc.
I can remember being out years ago on a 13.2 pony and being confronted by people in balaclavas and baseball bats with pepper sprays spraying in horses and hounds faces!  Animal lovers - my f**king arse!!!


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## combat_claire (23 March 2010)

I nearly forgot that on a regular basis the antis would phone the radio station and claim they had left a bomb under the car of one of the local hunt masters. 

Not animal lovers for sure but you could probably class them as people haters.


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## LauraWheeler (23 March 2010)

I was out with a bloodhound pack, on a sunday, when i was younger. A load of protesters turned up at the meet. We tried to explain we where a bloodhound pack but they would not listen. Anyway we continued with the meet and just before we set off one of the antis ran up to Lucy and went to hit her over the bum with his plackard. Lucy saw him comming and double barrold him across the road.  I laughed and rode off. I was lucky Lucy wasn't hurt but i have known horses and hounds killed in the name of animal rights   One lot of antis actualy stood and laughed while a poor girls horse was shot due to a broken leg caused by a wire they had pulled across the path.  
People haters they are, Animal lovers they are not.


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## Serenity087 (25 March 2010)

As someone who has hunted in Surrey (where it seems to be a problem  ) - we've also had piano wire strung over bridleways before hunt meets - which was found by an innocent horse riding who happened to brave a hack the night before a hunt meet!  They put it at the right height that a normal walker wouldn't notice it - you'd have to be on a horse!

Also, they used to booby trap fences, although I haven't experienced this!

And they bite.  Yes, grown adults (who lecture to students at Brighton University, or thereabouts!) bite other humans as if they were five.
Fortunatly, I think she was arrested for it!  But sadly, actually catching and charging the buggers is a rare affair!


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## Nailed (25 March 2010)

A friend horse had his bit ripped through his mouth by an anti grabbing the rein as he trot (or cantered not certain) past the anti. The anti feel, the rider fell, the horse spun on the spot and had a 1 1/2 inch tear in his cheek.

Lou x


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## Fantastic_Mr_Fox (26 March 2010)

What utter tripe!!!!

Any evidence here? Prosecutions? Photographs? Video evidence? Newspaper articles?

Hunt sabs biting people? What planet are you on?


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## UnaB (26 March 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			What utter tripe!!!!

Any evidence here? Prosecutions? Photographs? Video evidence? Newspaper articles?

Hunt sabs biting people? What planet are you on?
		
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Theres tonnes of video evidence of this stuff.


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## Fantastic_Mr_Fox (26 March 2010)

UnaB said:



			Theres tonnes of video evidence of this stuff.
		
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Could you post some links then please?


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## combat_claire (26 March 2010)

January 1993 - 5 police officers injured and 25 arrests of hunt saboteurs in Essex
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...is-increasing-peter-dunn-reports-1474504.html

November 1993 - injunctions for the Fitzwilliam and Portman - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...n-by-blowing-horns-and-hallooing-1504580.html

March 1994 - Saboteurs armed with fencing stakes hospitalise four members of the Four Burrow hunt
http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/evidence/hunts/fourburrow.htm

November 1994 - Saboteurs charged with aggravated trespass following at incident at the Woodland Pytchley Hunt
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~maureen/pr1b.html

December 1996 - saboteur arrested after causing a horse to fall onto the master, Whipper in also arrested after hitting saboteur trying to force his horse onto barbed wire

June 2002 - saboteurs carrying hammers and pick axe handles attack the Three Counties Hunt - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competit ... 36173.html

September 2004 - Old Surrey Hunt Kennels held under siege by violent saboteurs who threw stones at humans and hounds. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... sters.html

October 2004 - Suzanne Amos found guilty of ABH following incident at Quorn Hunt
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/58511.html

December 2006 - Saboteur arrested for carrying an offensive weapon at a meet of the Essex & Suffolk
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/...gory=news&itemid=IPED26 Dec 2006 21:31:07:357

September 2009 - Tiff Clelland and David Marriot were charged with public order offences, they were asked to remove the clothing covering their faces and refused becoming verbally abusive to the police who had made the request.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2057370_fox_hunt_protester_fined_for_not_removing_balaclava


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## UnaB (26 March 2010)

There you go, its been done for me.

Also, i believe the people who ran their car into my friends horse were prosecuted for dangerous driving and leaving the scene of the accident as well.


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## Fantastic_Mr_Fox (26 March 2010)

Thanks Claire, I look forward to reading those with my Friday night pint tonight (I could release that as a song!)

UnaB - I honestly dont think sabs would attack a horse. They are genuinely there to protect animals as they care for them. It would make no sense for them to hurt a horse!


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## UnaB (26 March 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			Thanks Claire, I look forward to reading those with my Friday night pint tonight (I could release that as a song!)

UnaB - I honestly dont think sabs would attack a horse. They are genuinely there to protect animals as they care for them. It would make no sense for them to hurt a horse!
		
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Well, thats all very well for you to say, but i witnessed with my own eyes these people shouting abuse to us (who were on a CHILDRENS meet btw!  so we were kids) and driving a car directly into the horses who had nowhere to go (we were on a road with a hedge behind us) and this one poor horse died because of their wish to "protect" animals.  That is not an isolated incident either as you have seen from this thread.  I have had people throwing things at me and hitting my horses too, or making loud noises or trying to spook the horses.


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## Spudlet (26 March 2010)

I have seen antis pass hunt horses on the roads deliberately fast and close, sounding their horns, revving their engines and so on to try and frighten them.


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## combat_claire (26 March 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			Thanks Claire, I look forward to reading those with my Friday night pint tonight (I could release that as a song!)
		
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No Emmerdale tonight!


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## Eagle_day (26 March 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			UnaB - I honestly dont think sabs would attack a horse. They are genuinely there to protect animals as they care for them. It would make no sense for them to hurt a horse!
		
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Don't forget the antis who tried to set fire to the Essex & Suffolk's kennels and released their horses and hounds onto the roads.

And Claire, you missed Peter 'Oh dear, the tw@t didn't stand clear of it' Bunce who was fined £650 for careless driving and failure to stop after hitting a motorbike and a horse with the Warwickshire.  Then there's John Curtin, who was on the airfield with Bunce, who was jailed for 2 years for desecrating a grave.

Nice friends you have, Fanatic Mr Fox.


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## irish_only (26 March 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			Thanks Claire, I look forward to reading those with my Friday night pint tonight (I could release that as a song!)

UnaB - I honestly dont think sabs would attack a horse. They are genuinely there to protect animals as they care for them. It would make no sense for them to hurt a horse!
		
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I was riding to a meet a few years back when I saw a car heading straight at me from behind. I managed to move my horse very quickly over to the left and the car just missed us.
Guess what? It was my lovely anti-hunting brother in law who didn't realise it was me - not until I visited him and gave him one hell of a b***icking. He told me we shouldn't be riding down the road two a breast, so I dropped off the then BHS leaflet for car drivers, with the firm promise that if he did anything like that again in my presence we WOULD go to court.


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## jardinea (2 April 2010)

Thanks for the great compliation of articles/links!  There are so many companies (ie: Lush, Yellowtail) who are deluded into thinking that they are helping animals by supporting these terrorist idiots.  This is a great addition to my portfolio for pointing out to them exactly what kind of maniacs they are dealing with.
Funny - no reply from "Fantastic" Mr. Fox.  Not a fan of the facts apparently.


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## JanetGeorge (2 April 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			UnaB - I honestly dont think sabs would attack a horse. They are genuinely there to protect animals as they care for them. It would make no sense for them to hurt a horse!
		
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Tell that to the former Master of the Surrey Union!  Hunting was over, Mark was hacking hounds back to the lorry when a sab blocked his path and grabbed the reins of his horse, dragging down on the bit and causing the horse (whose mouth was badly torn by the sab's action) to rear up and go over backwards.

Mark was trapped under the horse who was badly winded - but pure luck his back wasn't broken.  Mark suffered a ruptured kidney!  Most sabs would not DELIBERATELY hurt a horse - but ignorance and stupidity around horses inevitably leads to horses getting hurt!

It could also lead to sabs getting hurt!  I recall at one hunt a sab kept rushing up behind horses and our very courteous hunt chairman - who was on a big young TB said:  "Please don't come up behind my horse - he WILL kick and then you'll be in real trouble."  Sab yelled back: "No mate, if your horse kicks ME then YOU'll be in trouble!"  Hunt Chairman replied: "Giving evidence about how your death occurred will be immensely embarrassing to me - you won't be there to enjoy my discomfiture!"  Sab didn't get it!


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## Scratchline (5 April 2010)

Then there's John Curtin, who was on the airfield with Bunce, who was jailed for 2 years for desecrating a grave.

Nice friends you have, Fanatic Mr Fox.
		
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Is that the John Curtin who Trevor Morse tried to attack on the day he killed himself with his own actions?? I will stick with Bunce and c/o rather than toffs and the country thugs they attract with the slaughter of our wildlife. R.I.P fox hunting as was lol lol lol


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## rangerover (5 April 2010)

I could write a book about the amount of anti incidents I have witnessed/been involved with over the years.  Sabs in my garden after beagling, pins stuck in my hoses chest to make it go backwards into a ditch (it was grey and the blood did show), being accused of illegal hunting of deer after the ban (they didn't hunt deer before so why start now?)
They are a totally unpleasant bunch of people, sadly we think a lot of them are still being paid to come out by some charity/inheritance as most of them are totally ignorant about hunting.  I would make the best anti ever!


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## Caledonia (5 April 2010)

As someone who has had firecrackers thrown under a horse out hunting, I think you antis are sad individuals who have a twisted view of the class system, hence we are *toffs and the country thugs* according to the blinkered such as Scratchline.

Why not do something useful, you antis, like fighting to change the laws on transportation of food animals? The suffering there has to be seen to be believed. Or is it that hunting is an easy target, and nobody pays you to to fight some real welfare battles?


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## Eagle_day (5 April 2010)

The fact that you associate with convicted felons speaks volumes.

As for RIP hunting that was, hunting has never stayed the same but always evolved to deal with new difficulties - like barbed wire, the railways and the Hunting Act 2004.  And it will continue to do so, although I suspect things will be a bit easier after 6 May.


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## SueEllen (5 April 2010)

Thank god I've never come across any of this abuse, well apart from some shouting and a few car horns but this was as a kid years ago in England. I can not imagine how I would react at someone trying to harm my horse out hunting.


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## Grey_Eventer (5 April 2010)

When i was younger we had a terrible anti problem, before it was banned, not so much now...
I was about 10 years old when I had moved to the side of the road to let a car through, it then veered off the road towards me and my pony, thankfully pony spooked, ended up in the ditch (thankfully not too deep) but the car only just missed us... 
We previously had pepper etc. sprayed in horses and hounds faces, have had tapes played in order to confuse out huntsmen- which it did not.
A friend and I were also threatened by some anti when we were with the huntsmen, i must have been 11 and it was scary, he had some tool things, not sure what they were, but i suspect to tamper with vehicles etc. although when they are being waved around in front of your pony while he grabs your reins, you do not think like that....
It does happen, and still does occur... although haven't heard of bolting gates... agree not the best method- jump out!


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## AengusOg (5 April 2010)

There are moves afoot to have these cowardly idiots identified, despite their attempts to remain anonymous, and for them to be dealt with away from the field, in their own environments, on their own time...a sort of anti-anti movement. Once the first few have been maimed, the others will not be so keen to turn out on hunt days.


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## mymare (5 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Is that the John Curtin who Trevor Morse tried to attack on the day he killed himself with his own actions?? I will stick with Bunce and c/o rather than toffs and the country thugs they attract with the slaughter of our wildlife. R.I.P fox hunting as was lol lol lol
		
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LOL!  Whoever it was who told you it's only toffs that hunt was very wrong!  Oh sorry, then you say they're thugs - which is it?  And it's hardly slaughter of the wildlife, the odd fox maybe which are vermin anyway.  

Unfortunately I've never had the chance to go hunting, always wanted to.  My horse is far too old to hunt, I really wish I'd taken her when she was younger, she would have loved it.   

ETA if I ever had been on the fence about the whole hunting debate, these b*st*rds who call themselves animal lovers, then attack horses, hounds, and as stated above, children, would certainly have made me a strong supporter of hunting!  They aren't animal lovers THEY are thugs, violent ones.


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## JanetGeorge (6 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Is that the John Curtin who Trevor Morse tried to attack on the day he killed himself with his own actions?? I will stick with Bunce and c/o rather than toffs and the country thugs they attract with the slaughter of our wildlife. R.I.P fox hunting as was lol lol lol
		
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Trevor Morse wouldn't have attacked a fly!  And who told you he attacked John Curtin - and what proof did they have.  Just Curtin's 'word', I assume, which is worth very little!  After all, Curtin didn't take the stand because his criminal record would have made him a VERY 'unhelpful' witness for the defence!  Jurors might have realised that if the pilot had 2 AR activists (?terrorists!) with convictions for violence with him, he had no NEED to be SO scared of Trevor Morse that he HAD to escape - despite the dangers of moving a gyrocopter when there is anyone in the close vicinity.


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## Serenity087 (6 April 2010)

JanetGeorge said:



			Tell that to the former Master of the Surrey Union!  Hunting was over, Mark was hacking hounds back to the lorry when a sab blocked his path and grabbed the reins of his horse, dragging down on the bit and causing the horse (whose mouth was badly torn by the sab's action) to rear up and go over backwards.

Mark was trapped under the horse who was badly winded - but pure luck his back wasn't broken.  Mark suffered a ruptured kidney!  Most sabs would not DELIBERATELY hurt a horse - but ignorance and stupidity around horses inevitably leads to horses getting hurt!

It could also lead to sabs getting hurt!  I recall at one hunt a sab kept rushing up behind horses and our very courteous hunt chairman - who was on a big young TB said:  "Please don't come up behind my horse - he WILL kick and then you'll be in real trouble."  Sab yelled back: "No mate, if your horse kicks ME then YOU'll be in trouble!"  Hunt Chairman replied: "Giving evidence about how your death occurred will be immensely embarrassing to me - you won't be there to enjoy my discomfiture!"  Sab didn't get it! 

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Mark is a former Master now?  God I need to catch up!

The buggers slammed a whipper-ins horse through a barbed wire fence (sadly, the whipper-in was charged for kicking the **** out of the sab for it rather than the sab, ironically, done for animal cruelty!)

SU sabs have also terrorised small children and loan women, easy targets for weak men I suppose.

I think Mark also gave evidence of Surrey Sabs killing foxes.  Now there IS irony for you!


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## blakesmum (7 April 2010)

Just to add a small thing about 'Sabs' a very good friend of mine is in the D & C police and he attends all sorts of protests. He says he sees the 'rent-a-mob' brigade bused into all protests, he arrests the same faces over and over, be it at a hunt meet or at a protest at RAF St Mawgan or Devonport Dockyard or crowd trouble at Plymouth Argyle. They are 'paid' a wage for the day given free transport and fed and when questioned couldn't tell you what they are there protesting about half the time.

Yes there may be sabs who love animals, but a large % of them are unemployed louts looking for a fight who couldn't care less who or what gets injured.


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## rangerover (7 April 2010)

The recent case of CPS v Lynne Sawyer proves the point!


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## Scratchline (7 April 2010)

Caledonia said:



			As someone who has had firecrackers thrown under a horse out hunting, I think you antis are sad individuals who have a twisted view of the class system, hence we are *toffs and the country thugs* according to the blinkered such as Scratchline.




			Toffs and country thugs all with the same blood lust and hatred of foxes! That is neither twisted or blinkered. Its the truth as the vast majority of us living in the countryside know. Your problem as proven with your next rediculous couple of sentences is that you dont like us because we are anti your sick little hobby. You know absolutely nothing about us so make it up as you go along. I know what the hunts do. I know those involved, who they are, what they are like in real life. I dislike for a reason. You dislike to protect the ripping apart of a live creature!!!






			Why not do something useful, you antis, like fighting to change the laws on transportation of food animals? The suffering there has to be seen to be believed. Or is it that hunting is an easy target, and nobody pays you to to fight some real welfare battles?
		
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Why oh why do you hunters allow yourself to say or post such absolute rubbish as you have above. You have no idea what any anti is invloved in outside of the hunting debate. None whatsoever and you believe such things give you some sort of ammunition against those who support the hunting ban. You just prove once again how defeated you really are.
		
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## Scratchline (7 April 2010)

Eagle_day said:



			The fact that you associate with convicted felons speaks volumes, Skidmark.

As for RIP hunting that was, hunting has never stayed the same but always evolved to deal with new difficulties - like barbed wire, the railways and the Hunting Act 2004.  And it will continue to do so, although I suspect things will be a bit easier after 6 May.
		
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The fact you call people names speaks volumes but then you always have been rather sad. As for associating with convicted felons, I just love the way you take someones words and make up your own little story lol lol If only you could hold your own in an adult debate it would makle such a nice change.

You think May 6th will help your hobby return??  ROTFLMAO  Its finished, forever.


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## Scratchline (7 April 2010)

mymare said:



			LOL!  Whoever it was who told you it's only toffs that hunt was very wrong!  Oh sorry, then you say they're thugs - which is it?  And it's hardly slaughter of the wildlife, the odd fox maybe which are vermin anyway.  

Unfortunately I've never had the chance to go hunting, always wanted to.  My horse is far too old to hunt, I really wish I'd taken her when she was younger, she would have loved it.   

ETA if I ever had been on the fence about the whole hunting debate, these b*st*rds who call themselves animal lovers, then attack horses, hounds, and as stated above, children, would certainly have made me a strong supporter of hunting!  They aren't animal lovers THEY are thugs, violent ones.
		
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Oh no, another one who either cannot read or likes to make up little stories!! Which is it?!
Please show me where I have said it is only TOFFS who hunt and I will walk around Cornwall naked for a week?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## Scratchline (7 April 2010)

JanetGeorge said:



			Trevor Morse wouldn't have attacked a fly!  And who told you he attacked John Curtin - and what proof did they have.  Just Curtin's 'word', I assume, which is worth very little!  After all, Curtin didn't take the stand because his criminal record would have made him a VERY 'unhelpful' witness for the defence!  Jurors might have realised that if the pilot had 2 AR activists (?terrorists!) with convictions for violence with him, he had no NEED to be SO scared of Trevor Morse that he HAD to escape - despite the dangers of moving a gyrocopter when there is anyone in the close vicinity.
		
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So you have not seen the video evidence then which clearly shows what actually happened. The video evidence which was shown in court. The video evidence which the jury based their decision on?! 
You can 'assume', whatever you please but you will look stupid without evidence to back it up!

It doesnt matter one little bit who was or wasnt the passenger. Now you want to denounce the near victim of an assault stating his criminal record made him an unfit witness. Good oh. How about Trevor Morses criminal record?? Any ideas?!


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## MontyandZoom (7 April 2010)

Oh no....my UI seems to have deleted since the move. I'll have to sort that.

Anyhoo, I have only hunted three times and two of those trips were blighted by kn@bheads in balaclavas  They were running through the woods wielding sticks, it was terrifying. They were jumping out of bushes smacking sticks on the ground to spook the horses. They also laughed and shouted abuse about the fact that my pony only has one eye. Animal lovers eh????

Luckily this came in handy when we were at full gallop through the woods. An anti jumped out from behind a tree to spook Zoom. It was on her blind side so she didn't spook.....but he almost got trampled!


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## somethingorother (7 April 2010)

As much as i am against fox hunting, i am just as against these stupid sabs who mess it up for us people who are against it, can form a valid argument and ARE animal lovers who would never endager a horse or human. Maybe if they could control themselves i might join them to protest peacefully, but unfortunately i do not want to associate with thugs, as pointed out above, who just want a fight.

Why do they have to go about it like this? It does their image more harm than good and that means it does the cause more harm than good. 

May 6th also poses a problem for me since mentioning lifting the ban. I do think there would be uproar though and it is unlikely to be overturned. Although i am sure many more people will injured in the name of running after a fox on horses.


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## rangerover (7 April 2010)

Glad I'm not in Cornwall eh?


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## Caledonia (7 April 2010)

Scratchline said:





Caledonia said:



			As someone who has had firecrackers thrown under a horse out hunting, I think you antis are sad individuals who have a twisted view of the class system, hence we are *toffs and the country thugs* according to the blinkered such as Scratchline.
		
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Toffs and country thugs all with the same blood lust and hatred of foxes! That is neither twisted or blinkered. Its the truth as the vast majority of us living in the countryside know. Your problem as proven with your next rediculous couple of sentences is that you dont like us because we are anti your sick little hobby. You know absolutely nothing about us so make it up as you go along. I know what the hunts do. I know those involved, who they are, what they are like in real life. I dislike for a reason. You dislike to protect the ripping apart of a live creature!!!
		
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Oh dear, ranting and vitriol. Hardly a strong argument. I suppose you are now going to tell me that none of you get paid to do sab work?
How do you equate animal welfare with the abuse of horses? 

As for the real welfare issues, I know perfectly well that none of you bigots are remotely involved in real welfare. Otherwise you'd be out doing something about that, at the markets, monitoring farms, following lorries and generally making the same fuss about how right you are in that environment. But no, you choose to bully (in gangs) people acting legally who will mostly afford you some courtesy. 

The reason I even bring this up (in answer to your question), is that if animal welfare is your real vocation, you would not be using the tired old bigoted argument of class issues. Because really, how IS that relevant? 




			You just prove once again how defeated you really are.
		
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It may have escaped your notice, but hunting is alive and well and legal, despite your incontinent ramblings.


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## Scratchline (7 April 2010)

Caledonia said:



			Oh dear, ranting and vitriol. Hardly a strong argument. I suppose you are now going to tell me that none of you get paid to do sab work?
How do you equate animal welfare with the abuse of horses? 




			Ranting? lol lol I think you will find I merely speak as I find. As for being a 'sab'???? I hunt as much as anybody on this forum. I simply believe fox hunting as was is 100% wrong, cruel and all involved are as bad as dogfighters. All very simple!





			As for the real welfare issues, I know perfectly well that none of you bigots are remotely involved in real welfare. Otherwise you'd be out doing something about that, at the markets, monitoring farms, following lorries and generally making the same fuss about how right you are in that environment. But no, you choose to bully (in gangs) people acting legally who will mostly afford you some courtesy. 

The reason I even bring this up (in answer to your question), is that if animal welfare is your real vocation, you would not be using the tired old bigoted argument of class issues. Because really, how IS that relevant? 




			Again you are talking through your backside I'm afraid. I am country through and through which people like you cannot bare to be true but it is. We in the coutryside do not support you sick lot! We dont want fox hunting as was thanks in OUR countryside. The sport of bloodthirsty toffs supported by bloodthirsty locals. Tired old biggoted arguement you say?? How is it relevant?? Because that is who hunts or are you missing the point?!






			It may have escaped your notice, but hunting is alive and well and legal, despite your incontinent ramblings.
		
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Rubbish. Chasing foxes over time/distance and hounds ripping them apart is illegal so no nothing has escaped my notice! If nothing had changed you lot wouldnt be so desperate for repeal now, would you?! PMSL
		
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## Scratchline (7 April 2010)

rangerover said:



			Glad I'm not in Cornwall eh?
		
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lol No fear, 'mymare', missquoted me and will no doubt have the decency to apologise so i have no need to strip.


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## Scratchline (7 April 2010)

skiddaw_lad said:



			if you go to youtube and search for cumcar1 you will see what sort of people antis  are !!!
		
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Preventing illegal hunting? Thank god for people like them helping the police deal with crime in our countryside.


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## Caledonia (7 April 2010)

Jeez, that's some chip on your shoulder, Scratchline. 

You still haven't answered the question about paid sabs? Also, as I am a fully fledged member of the countryside (farmer), you are attempting to speak for me, and you therefore are totally wrong. I am neither toff nor thug, just someone who believes in the right to hunt, and that it is not a welfare issue for the fox, but a pest control. 
As a country person yourself, how do you feel when you lose chickens, or lambs to foxes killing gratuitously?


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## rangerover (7 April 2010)

Helping the Police..the nearest we see of that is when they get arrested and put in the Police cars for trespassing, spraying obnoxious substances, illegal entry or any of the other things these scumbags do when they venture out into the countryside.


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## somethingorother (7 April 2010)

...Come to think of it, everyone on the hunting forum just seems to want a fight, whether anti or pro....


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## mymare (7 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			lol No fear, 'mymare', missquoted me and will no doubt have the decency to apologise so i have no need to strip.
		
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Misquoted you????  I quoted your whole comment.


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## mymare (7 April 2010)

Caledonia said:



			Jeez, that's some chip on your shoulder, Scratchline. 

You still haven't answered the question about paid sabs? Also, as I am a fully fledged member of the countryside (farmer), you are attempting to speak for me, and you therefore are totally wrong. I am neither toff nor thug, just someone who believes in the right to hunt, and that it is not a welfare issue for the fox, but a pest control. 
As a country person yourself, how do you feel when you lose chickens, or lambs to foxes killing gratuitously?
		
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Ditto all of the above!


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## PaddyMonty (8 April 2010)

Whilst I deplore the activities of a lot of anti's and respect a persons right to choose to hunt or not I have to say I get a little tired of this bit of mis-information used in support of hunting.



Caledonia said:



			As a country person yourself, how do you feel when you lose chickens, or lambs to foxes killing gratuitously?
		
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Foxes do NOT kill gratuitously.  They simple kill all available prey and given time would bury what is not needed for leaner times.  Man has messed up the system by collecting large groups of the foxes prey togther in a small area.
far to many for the fox to deal with as nature intended.  Therefor it appears that the fox kills for fun when in reality it just kills for food.  Not the foxes fault man has provided it with more food than it can deal with.  
Using incorrect information to strenghten an argument does the hunt no favours.

It would be so refreshing if, just for once both sides could take out the hype, bull and emotion.  Sit down and have a sensible debate without trying to kill each other.

I wont hold my breath though.

PS Spent many years hunting but now dont and have seen the work of both parties up close and personal.  Neither are pleasant to watch.


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## Caledonia (8 April 2010)

I don't buy that, I'm afraid, JunoXV. Killing 40 chickens in one go is gratuitous. There is no way the fox is killing to store, he's responding to his kill drive, nothing more. 
Otherwise, he'd be dragging them ALL back out the hole he came in, not just one of them.


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## rosie fronfelen (8 April 2010)

i totally agree with what you say, Caledonia, we farm too, mainly sheep way up in the welsh hills- the fox is a pest, he kills for the hell of it as well as for food. we have lost many chickens and ducks over the years, so much so that we gave up the duck idea!! now it is lambing, yet another bloody headache as there is now an explosion of foxes around these parts- many mangy ones amongst them. so much for the ban which has done NOTHING for the once healthy and manageable fox population.


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## mymare (8 April 2010)

Can sympathise with you.  Our lambing officially started yesterday, fortunately we don't really have a fox problem where we are, and any that are seen are shot by the gamekeepers.  The fox lovers obviously haven't seen the damage they can do to a healthy lamb, including leaving them with half a face.  Seems they love some species more than others, weird.


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## guccigivi2001 (8 April 2010)

im quite happy to say i havent witnessed anything to do with anti's except for shouting abuse until today, at which point i youtube'd anti's and was horrified to see that someone who is supposed to be an animal rights activist could do this to a horse, endangering both horse, rider and anti in one go! i personally think this is disgraceful. if someone assaulted me and my horse out hunting like that i can assure them they would have more than the living daylights beaten out of them, they wouldnt know what had hit them.
and to scatchline, please can we have a better arguement, all i have seen from you so far is mundane insulting of fellow horse fans and an attempt at sofisticated grammar. for your information i am 16 years ols, i live in a semidetched house that is in fact a building site, my horse is grazing on what might as well be mud and i am in no way a toff or whatever else you may want to call us.


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## Houndman (9 April 2010)

We have had antis breaking down locked gates with bullbars on the front of 4wds


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## Eagle_day (9 April 2010)

I have received this post from HHO Admin:

"Your post has been edited to remove the reference to another member as "Skidmark" after being brought to our attention. Please refrain from resorting to name calling."

I have also received a PM from Mr Scratchline entitled 'Hey Mouthy' (which I have deleted unread as I do not correspond with thuggish antis).

Double standards? Perhaps - and we are seeing increasingly nasty posts from our anti troll.  I personally believe he's a LACS employee - so, with his P45 already dated 9 May, he will be getting desperate.


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## Serenity087 (9 April 2010)

Thats a shame, Admin seem to have forgotton that we all had nicknames in here, courtasy of Kieran, and Skids was one of them!  I've been called many in here, and I certainly didn't go home and cry about it!

Scratchline is a broken record.  Hunting is gone forever?  Hunting never left, sweetheart.  We jumped through some hoops and came back stronger than ever, the one pack that disbanded reformed, and antis and labour mps have been crying into their fluffy fox toys every night because, far from saving animals and making tories so angry their monocles fall out and they spill their afternoon tea, they've garunteed that more foxes die and enhanced the appeal of hunting so much that any Joe Bloggs now goes, not just the toffs.

In fact, labour just made hunting cool.

Which is a bit of a shame, because going back will decool it a little, and I think some packs would be wise to have drag days and kill days to keep up support, but for goodness sake, stop pretending to your obviously delirious mind that hunting ever went away!

Because more than 100% of the packs in the UK have hunted every possibly day since the ban.  And that really isn't a good statistic, is it.


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## rosie fronfelen (9 April 2010)

i do wonder why he calls himself Scratchline, knowing what it can possibly represent- makes you wonder!!!!


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## Scratchline (9 April 2010)

Eagle_day said:



			I have received this post from HHO Admin:

"Your post has been edited to remove the reference to another member as "Skidmark" after being brought to our attention. Please refrain from resorting to name calling."

I have also received a PM from Mr Scratchline entitled 'Hey Mouthy' (which I have deleted unread as I do not correspond with thuggish antis).

Double standards? Perhaps - and we are seeing increasingly nasty posts from our anti troll.  I personally believe he's a LACS employee - so, with his P45 already dated 9 May, he will be getting desperate.
		
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A LACS employee? Now that is funny lol lol As for abiding by the forum rules I do so you can. Simples.


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## Scratchline (9 April 2010)

and to scatchline, please can we have a better arguement, all i have seen from you so far is mundane insulting of fellow horse fans and an attempt at sofisticated grammar. for your information i am 16 years ols, i live in a semidetched house that is in fact a building site, my horse is grazing on what might as well be mud and i am in no way a toff or whatever else you may want to call us.
		
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Perhaps you should make the effort to find all of my other posts, read them and find out why I am an anti before you comment, young newbee!

Oh, and it is 'sophisticated', by the way. Stay on at school please.


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## Scratchline (9 April 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			Thats a shame, Admin seem to have forgotton that we all had nicknames in here, courtasy of Kieran, and Skids was one of them!  I've been called many in here, and I certainly didn't go home and cry about it! 




			I have a nickname and it is Scratchline. Sadly those who disagree with my views lower the tone of our forum by name calling. Not very grown up but sadly compounded by people like you who are always happy to blame the victim not the bully.




			Scratchline is a broken record.  Hunting is gone forever?  Hunting never left, sweetheart.  We jumped through some hoops and came back stronger than ever, the one pack that disbanded reformed, and antis and labour mps have been crying into their fluffy fox toys every night because, far from saving animals and making tories so angry their monocles fall out and they spill their afternoon tea, they've garunteed that more foxes die and enhanced the appeal of hunting so much that any Joe Bloggs now goes, not just the toffs.

In fact, labour just made hunting cool.

Which is a bit of a shame, because going back will decool it a little, and I think some packs would be wise to have drag days and kill days to keep up support, but for goodness sake, stop pretending to your obviously delirious mind that hunting ever went away!

Because more than 100% of the packs in the UK have hunted every possibly day since the ban.  And that really isn't a good statistic, is it.
		
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The one thing you forget honey, is chasing foxes for sport and ripping them apart with packs of hounds is illegal and will never return. Everything else is absolutely fine by me. Shoot them or snare them properly I couldnt care less. So no, I'm not upset I am happy as Larry. Numbers of hunters are up because you cannot kill as was so that made it cool nothing less. You can trot round our countryside all you want whilst whinging about the repeal you are 100% desperate for  (shame iot will not happen), which makes the situation even more funny for me. All this under the gaze of monitors who will not let you get away with anything illegal and you cannot do anything to stop them lol lol

ME the broken record?? Errrr repeal repeal repeal zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and nobody cares what you want ROTFL1
		
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## Apercrumbie (9 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Oh, and it is 'sophisticated', by the way. Stay on at school please.
		
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Please don't pick people up on their spelling.  Some people are dyslexic and there is no need to make them feel bad about themselves.  Please stop resorting to pettiness.

I am not anti hunting but I am in favour of the ban as I hate cruelty to animals and I think that the ban has enforced a more humane way of killing the foxes.  I now feel I can morally enjoy myself out hunting.  (I don't mean to sound so strange and up myself but I just can't think of a better way of putting it)  I completely understand the anti's views, but I just cannot abide their methods.  I have seen the damage they cause to horses and it just isn't the way to go about it.  I also have seen how horrible some hunting people can be as well, so it is slightly unfair to rant and rave solely at the antis.  

Scratchline - I understand some of your views but everyone needs to stop being so extreme and think about this more logically and in a more adult way.  

And can everyone stop being so horrible to each other?  This is actually a really interesting debate and both sides have good arguments but they are ruined by pettiness and over-reacting.


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## Scratchline (9 April 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			i do wonder why he calls himself Scratchline, knowing what it can possibly represent- makes you wonder!!!!
		
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Thats not fair keeping us all in the dark about the inquisitive ramblings of your mind. How about a clue about what you are suggesting as you havent as yet had the decency to perhaps just ask me why I call myself Scratchline?!


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## Scratchline (9 April 2010)

apercrumbie said:



			Please don't pick people up on their spelling.  Some people are dyslexic and there is no need to make them feel bad about themselves.  Please stop resorting to pettiness.




			Hold your horses please. I responded to this 'and an attempt at sofisticated grammar.', therefore in this case only, felt justified to respond the way I did. I have nothing to apologise for.




			I am not anti hunting but I am in favour of the ban as I hate cruelty to animals and I think that the ban has enforced a more humane way of killing the foxes.  I now feel I can morally enjoy myself out hunting.  (I don't mean to sound so strange and up myself but I just can't think of a better way of putting it)  I completely understand the anti's views, but I just cannot abide their methods.  I have seen the damage they cause to horses and it just isn't the way to go about it.  I also have seen how horrible some hunting people can be as well, so it is slightly unfair to rant and rave solely at the antis.  

Scratchline - I understand some of your views but everyone needs to stop being so extreme and think about this more logically and in a more adult way.  

And can everyone stop being so horrible to each other?  This is actually a really interesting debate and both sides have good arguments but they are ruined by pettiness and over-reacting.
		
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For the record I am just anti fox hunting as was. I have never, ever, said that I agree with or condone the extreme behaviour of either side of the hunting debate. Sadly if you bravely state your case as an anti on this forum you automatically become a sab etc in the eyes of some on here.
As for the present law it can be ammended ( Giles springs to mind), a little but basically it is great and works well.
		
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## rosie fronfelen (9 April 2010)

to be "decent" to a shabby,very unpleasant person- why do you call yourself by that name/ happy now that i have asked!!


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## Scratchline (9 April 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			to be "decent" to a shabby,very unpleasant person- why do you call yourself by that name/ happy now that i have asked!!
		
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If it was a question wouldnt it finish with a question mark? Now, I am shabby and unpleasent? lol

Save wasting anymore of my time on this with you my family are very much into sport, my niece reprisented Wales on a number of occasions weight lifting. Scratchline is taken from the same field term. Sorry it wasnt very exciting after all lol lol


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## rosie fronfelen (9 April 2010)

thank you for the explanation- lovely sport i must say, by the way, you have ALWAYS  been an unpleasant person, also your spelling isn't exactly 10 out of 10. lol-


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## Scratchline (9 April 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			thank you for the explanation- lovely sport i must say, by the way, you have ALWAYS  been an unpleasant person, also your spelling isn't exactly 10 out of 10. lol-
		
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On both counts I am in the right place then.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (9 April 2010)

I will admit that my knowledge of hunting foxes with hounds is almost negligable.  What I do know is that the ban has allowed other more barbaric methods of 'controlling' the fox population to flourish, thus allowing the real sadists to indulge in their perverted pleasures.


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## Annette4 (9 April 2010)

Everything else is absolutely fine by me. Shoot them or snare them properly I couldnt care less.
		
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Because a quick kill from a dog is sooooo much worse than dying slowly from a gun shot wound or being slowly suffocated (provided you get their neck.....the likelihood is it'll loose a limb/tail). Or suffocation with gas which also poisons anything else that's in the ground. 

I really don't understand why you think that is more humane?!

If I thought there was a more humane way to control the population I'd be all for it but they only way to get a clean shot IMO is a humane trap and a close range bullet......I don't know any farmers willing to spend that much money or time on keeping control of a pest.


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## rosie fronfelen (9 April 2010)

i'm bored now as ever, whatever you like!


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## cider loving mare (9 April 2010)

Hi I'm doing a presentation on hunting at college, and wondered if I could use some of your posts thanks.


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## rosie fronfelen (10 April 2010)

nats, not mine thank you, not knowing who or what you are doing!!


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## Eagle_day (10 April 2010)

"On both counts I am in the right place then."
Cornwall?

Nats, feel free.  They certainly show the antis to be people-haters rather than animal-lovers.


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## Scratchline (10 April 2010)

Annette4 said:



			Because a quick kill from a dog is sooooo much worse than dying slowly from a gun shot wound or being slowly suffocated (provided you get their neck.....the likelihood is it'll loose a limb/tail). Or suffocation with gas which also poisons anything else that's in the ground. 

I really don't understand why you think that is more humane?!

If I thought there was a more humane way to control the population I'd be all for it but they only way to get a clean shot IMO is a humane trap and a close range bullet......I don't know any farmers willing to spend that much money or time on keeping control of a pest.
		
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Use just 'a', dog and show us all your quick kill?????????? I have only ever, vocally, supported trained marksmen with high powered rifles and why do YOU mention gassing. I didnt and it is awful!
Farmers are responsible for their stock therefore they are responsible for the manner in which foxes are killed on their land. Pay them for humane killing as above save compensating them for lost stock.


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## Scratchline (10 April 2010)

Eagle_day said:



			"On both counts I am in the right place then."
Cornwall?
		
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You should be on the stage lol


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## JanetGeorge (10 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			I have only ever, vocally, supported trained marksmen with high powered rifles
		
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Have you ever tried shooting a fox, Scratchline?  I shot a lot of foxes in Australia when working in the Outback - and I was a bloody good shot!  I had to be - the boss handed out X no of shells - and wanted shells (or dead foxes) back in equal number!!  Or else!!

His reasoning was NOT humanity!  He was convinced that it was ill, wounded and old foxes that killed newborn lambs - and that theory was born outby the foxes we shot - 50% of which were wearing wire - or had shotgun wounds - despite the fact that on that 12,000 acre property NO snares nor shotguns were used for fox control!  Only .303s! (You try asking your local constabulary for a firearms license for a .303 for fox control!!  In most counties you'd struggle to get a license for a .222 - which does NOT guarantee a clean kill - even when you get a perfect shot!  In some areas, the best you'll get is a .22!)

High powered rifles are NOT safe for use in most parts of lowland Britain!  If you miss, a bullet will travel half a mile or more and kill a cow, or a horse, or a Rambler!!  (And yes, even Marksmen miss foxes - because the bu**ers move!!)


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## Scratchline (11 April 2010)

JanetGeorge said:



			Have you ever tried shooting a fox, Scratchline?  I shot a lot of foxes in Australia when working in the Outback - and I was a bloody good shot!  I had to be - the boss handed out X no of shells - and wanted shells (or dead foxes) back in equal number!!  Or else!!

His reasoning was NOT humanity!  He was convinced that it was ill, wounded and old foxes that killed newborn lambs - and that theory was born outby the foxes we shot - 50% of which were wearing wire - or had shotgun wounds - despite the fact that on that 12,000 acre property NO snares nor shotguns were used for fox control!  Only .303s! (You try asking your local constabulary for a firearms license for a .303 for fox control!!  In most counties you'd struggle to get a license for a .222 - which does NOT guarantee a clean kill - even when you get a perfect shot!  In some areas, the best you'll get is a .22!)

High powered rifles are NOT safe for use in most parts of lowland Britain!  If you miss, a bullet will travel half a mile or more and kill a cow, or a horse, or a Rambler!!  (And yes, even Marksmen miss foxes - because the bu**ers move!!)
		
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Yes I have shot foxes and taken many more with lurchers lamping. Being ex Irish Guards I do also understand the danger of bullets. Licensed marksmen are taking out foxes in our cities and as yet havent killed anybody so perhaps we should employ them to do the job.
Any excuse can be made not to go down the route of certain types of fox control however the most abhorant and cruel has rightly been banned. Nothing can change that fact and having seen with my own eyes all types of fox hunting I couldnt agre with the law more.
Thankfully our Cornish MP's ( not 'townie' MP's), who will once more return to parliament are all for the ban and represent us, not the Countryside Alliance.


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## Scratchline (11 April 2010)

nats said:



			Hi I'm doing a presentation on hunting at college, and wondered if I could use some of your posts thanks.
		
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Sadly you would be wasting your own time using posts from this forum as it is monitored. To reveal the true face of hunting and expose those who break the law with abandon visit the pro hunting sites on facebook. Sickening stuff!


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## reindeerlover (11 April 2010)

Hmm.... Interesting views from everyone I must say and I don't want to start my own little battle here but I know for a fact that all anti-hunting people are not rent-a-mob and will certainly not harm animals. I also know for a fact that all hunting people are not mild mannered meek and sweet natured people who live for caring for their horses/hounds and nod and smile kindly at all people while they are hunting. I think you'll find many youtube videos that show sabs being sworn at and abused and often ridden at by hunters. Neither party is blameless is my general message. In addition to which I'd like to state that the ban on hunting has gone unnoticed to at least one hunt that I know of. I wonder if they haven't heard about it yet?


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## Serenity087 (11 April 2010)

Just one?

The hunting ban is much like the highway code, we're supposed to follow it, and whenever you see a copper, you make like you're following it, but all the rest of the time people do what they want...

Which does beg the question, is Mr Huntsman any more bad for hunting foxes than Mrs Pratin4x4 for driving around with her fog lights on in clear weather??


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## equine-science (11 April 2010)

As far as anti's locking gates causing worry about dogs getting lost, run over etc if people can't get to them. maybe the dogs should be under control???

As someone who has had hounds running a mock chasing live stock with huntsmen running around my field and garden with no control over them whatsoever, then maybe they should be all locked in a field together?

I AM anti hunting as it disgusts me however I would not be personally rude to someone who did hunt nor tell them I was in the wrong. By reflection I expect the same respect which entales not having to have out of control predators running around my land when I have expressly told the local hunt to not enter onto my land.

A friend years ago wasn't very impressed to have the hounds and fox in her swimming pool either. Not to mention the amount of hunts that go through farmers land regardless whether or not permission has been granted as I have seen this first hand (know some of the farmers) and huntsman have left gates UNLOCKED when they should have been locked as this is what the farmer wanted.

The anti's if they want to protest should do it in a way that they will be listened too not behave like hoolagons


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## Scratchline (12 April 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			Just one?

The hunting ban is much like the highway code, we're supposed to follow it, and whenever you see a copper, you make like you're following it, but all the rest of the time people do what they want...

Which does beg the question, is Mr Huntsman any more bad for hunting foxes than Mrs Pratin4x4 for driving around with her fog lights on in clear weather??
		
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From the horses mouth so to speak lol At least you are honest unlike most of the nicey, nicey face of hunting that is normally posted on this forum and the rubbish the CA spout. Anybody that actually cares can of course go and find all the posts about catching fox cubs and running them over with cars for fun etc but the reality is not all involved in hunting do so. Most absolutely despise foxes and want them destroyed no matter what. I accept some of you dont but many, many more do.
IMO if so many are prepared to break the law then the simple answer is ban all hunting with dogs and make the hunts and packs themselves illegal. With all the boasting going on (not on here), about the ongoing illegal hunting I doubt this would be difficult.

Is illegal killing of foxes with banned methods any different to driving a vehicle in the way you describe? Why dont you put it to a public vote lol


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## mymare (12 April 2010)

Scratchline said:





Scratchline said:



			Most absolutely despise foxes and want them destroyed no matter what. I accept some of you dont but many, many more do.
		
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Jeez make your mind up!!!!!!!!!!  You're contradicting yourself.
		
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## Serenity087 (12 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			From the horses mouth so to speak lol At least you are honest unlike most of the nicey, nicey face of hunting that is normally posted on this forum and the rubbish the CA spout. Anybody that actually cares can of course go and find all the posts about catching fox cubs and running them over with cars for fun etc but the reality is not all involved in hunting do so. Most absolutely despise foxes and want them destroyed no matter what. I accept some of you dont but many, many more do.
IMO if so many are prepared to break the law then the simple answer is ban all hunting with dogs and make the hunts and packs themselves illegal. With all the boasting going on (not on here), about the ongoing illegal hunting I doubt this would be difficult.

Is illegal killing of foxes with banned methods any different to driving a vehicle in the way you describe? Why dont you put it to a public vote lol
		
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Hunting foxes is much less offensive, I like foxes, I don't like being blinded by lights that shouldn't be on (I suffer night blindness and have had very close shaves with drivers using their foglights.  I'd rather stomp on a foxes head than have a head on collision at night on a rural road!)

Yes, you could say I've prioritised things, I come before animals.  So what.

For the record, I DON'T speak for ANY UK hunt.  I don't know of anyone who does hunt apart from Giles.  But I DO know that no one bothers to check what they're hunting, apart from a bunch of hippies who spend half their lives abusing children and killing animals to make good video footage to use in court.

So now you're suggesting all drag hunts become illegal too, as well as the two foxhound showing kennels who do little else than frequent crufts!  Why don't we ban football to stop hooliganism, or ban knives to stop murder (and make eating rather interesting).

How very totalitarian of you... God forbid the supporters of the ban are totalitarian... Oh, Wai...


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## mymare (12 April 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			Hunting foxes is much less offensive, I like foxes, I don't like being blinded by lights that shouldn't be on (I suffer night blindness and have had very close shaves with drivers using their foglights.  I'd rather stomp on a foxes head than have a head on collision at night on a rural road!)

Yes, you could say I've prioritised things, I come before animals.  So what.

For the record, I DON'T speak for ANY UK hunt.  I don't know of anyone who does hunt apart from Giles.  But I DO know that no one bothers to check what they're hunting, apart from a bunch of hippies who spend half their lives abusing children and killing animals to make good video footage to use in court.

So now you're suggesting all drag hunts become illegal too, as well as the two foxhound showing kennels who do little else than frequent crufts!  Why don't we ban football to stop hooliganism, or ban knives to stop murder (and make eating rather interesting).

How very totalitarian of you... God forbid the supporters of the ban are totalitarian... Oh, Wai...
		
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We could ban hacking altogether, just in case we upset any wildlife!!


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## combat_claire (12 April 2010)

Farrierlover said:



			Hmm.... Interesting views from everyone I must say and I don't want to start my own little battle here but I know for a fact that all anti-hunting people are not rent-a-mob and will certainly not harm animals.
		
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I am intrigued by your assertion that you know for a fact. I should like to see your evidence for this statement, because my quick research on the subject seems to paint a rather different picture of a group of people intent on causing mayhem. I've copied this list that I produced earlier in the thread.

January 1993 - 5 police officers injured and 25 arrests of hunt saboteurs in Essex
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1474504.html

November 1993 - injunctions for the Fitzwilliam and Portman - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-1504580.html

March 1994 - Saboteurs armed with fencing stakes hospitalise four members of the Four Burrow hunt
http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/evi...fourburrow.htm

November 1994 - Saboteurs charged with aggravated trespass following at incident at the Woodland Pytchley Hunt
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~maureen/pr1b.html

December 1996 - saboteur arrested after causing a horse to fall onto the master, Whipper in also arrested after hitting saboteur trying to force his horse onto barbed wire

June 2002 - saboteurs carrying hammers and pick axe handles attack the Three Counties Hunt - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competit ... 36173.html

September 2004 - Old Surrey Hunt Kennels held under siege by violent saboteurs who threw stones at humans and hounds. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... sters.html

October 2004 - Suzanne Amos found guilty of ABH following incident at Quorn Hunt
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/58511.html

December 2006 - Saboteur arrested for carrying an offensive weapon at a meet of the Essex & Suffolk
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/n...2021:31:07:357

September 2009 - Tiff Clelland and David Marriot were charged with public order offences, they were asked to remove the clothing covering their faces and refused becoming verbally abusive to the police who had made the request.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/20...ving_balaclava

I am fortunate enough not to have experienced these sort of tactics first hand, but I do belong to a hunt which was repeatedly targeted during the worst of the campaign. Our response has always been to never pack up, until the saboteurs had called it a day first. Combined with this there was a strict policy of no violence. I appreciate that there are bad apples on both sides of the debate, indeed my first post on this thread mentioned this very fact, but for you to make sweeping statements like the one above, whilst blackening the reputation of hunting supporters flies in the face of the available evidence. 




			In addition to which I'd like to state that the ban on hunting has gone unnoticed to at least one hunt that I know of. I wonder if they haven't heard about it yet?
		
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Again I am intrigued by this sweeping statement - top legal minds have been unable to establish this point of law as far as illegal hunting is concerned, but unless I am mistaken as to your legal qualifications you seem able to determine the difference. Post-ban hunting by its very nature is designed to replicate quarry hunting. This is obtained by skilful trail laying and the use of exempt hunting. We have invested a great deal of time and money in complying with the law, whilst making it as close to pre-ban hunting experience as possible. I suspect that your local pack has made similar changes and to be honest I rather resent these inferences that hunts are deliberately breaking the law on a daily basis.

To conclude, I don't much care whether you are pro or anti-hunting that is your call, but I do mind the casual approach that some people seem to take to the facts of the debate.


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## Scratchline (12 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratchline  
Most absolutely despise foxes and want them destroyed no matter what. I accept some of you dont but many, many more do. 

Jeez make your mind up!!!!!!!!!! You're contradicting yourself. 


How have I contradicted myself????   One the one hand I accept foxes need some control and promote humane culling. Whereas I know the majority in hunting ranks despise the fox want all and sundry klilled by any means.
Perhaps you just cannot read my posts properly lol
		
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## Scratchline (12 April 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			Hunting foxes is much less offensive, I like foxes, I don't like being blinded by lights that shouldn't be on (I suffer night blindness and have had very close shaves with drivers using their foglights.  I'd rather stomp on a foxes head than have a head on collision at night on a rural road!)




			You said about fog lights in clear weather, now it is night driving??




			Yes, you could say I've prioritised things, I come before animals.  So what.

For the record, I DON'T speak for ANY UK hunt.  I don't know of anyone who does hunt apart from Giles.  But I DO know that no one bothers to check what they're hunting, apart from a bunch of hippies who spend half their lives abusing children and killing animals to make good video footage to use in court.




			A bunch of hippies abusing children and killing animals to make good video footage?? Oh please lol lol




			So now you're suggesting all drag hunts become illegal too, as well as the two foxhound showing kennels who do little else than frequent crufts!  Why don't we ban football to stop hooliganism, or ban knives to stop murder (and make eating rather interesting).

How very totalitarian of you... God forbid the supporters of the ban are totalitarian... Oh, Wai...
		
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You obvioulsy dont know anybody who hunts lol lol  Totaltarianism will not lead to the eventual outlawing of packs of hounds. Sick behaviour by hunts and their supporters in direct conflict with the law will bring the hunts to their knees. Not because of the antis but due solely to the desire by many to rub our noses in their continued vile treatment of the British fox.
		
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## Scratchline (12 April 2010)

combat_claire said:



			I am intrigued by your assertion that you know for a fact. I should like to see your evidence for this statement, because my quick research on the subject seems to paint a rather different picture of a group of people intent on causing mayhem. I've copied this list that I produced earlier in the thread.

January 1993 - 5 police officers injured and 25 arrests of hunt saboteurs in Essex
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1474504.html

November 1993 - injunctions for the Fitzwilliam and Portman - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-1504580.html

March 1994 - Saboteurs armed with fencing stakes hospitalise four members of the Four Burrow hunt
http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/evi...fourburrow.htm

November 1994 - Saboteurs charged with aggravated trespass following at incident at the Woodland Pytchley Hunt
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~maureen/pr1b.html

December 1996 - saboteur arrested after causing a horse to fall onto the master, Whipper in also arrested after hitting saboteur trying to force his horse onto barbed wire

June 2002 - saboteurs carrying hammers and pick axe handles attack the Three Counties Hunt - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competit ... 36173.html

September 2004 - Old Surrey Hunt Kennels held under siege by violent saboteurs who threw stones at humans and hounds. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... sters.html

October 2004 - Suzanne Amos found guilty of ABH following incident at Quorn Hunt
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/58511.html

December 2006 - Saboteur arrested for carrying an offensive weapon at a meet of the Essex & Suffolk
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/n...2021:31:07:357

September 2009 - Tiff Clelland and David Marriot were charged with public order offences, they were asked to remove the clothing covering their faces and refused becoming verbally abusive to the police who had made the request.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/20...ving_balaclava



			Given that these few cases cover 16yrs CC, it would appear the vast majority who attend hunts as an anti do so not as a rent a mob as suggested.
		
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## gigs (12 April 2010)

I remember many years ago hunting as a child having my pony hit round the head with a placard that read ' Against cruelty to animals ' Having said that remember laughing my head off when several rather large hunt followers liftted antis cars up and put them on concrete blocks !!!


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## combat_claire (13 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Given that these few cases cover 16yrs CC, it would appear the vast majority who attend hunts as an anti do so not as a rent a mob as suggested.
		
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My issue was not whether they were hired to saboteur hunts or not, my issue was with the style of debating that we were sinking to - unfounded assertions from Farrier Lover that he/she knew for a fact that no anti would hurt animals. The published list above shows just how wrong that statement is and that is before you delve into hunting pre-ban anecdotes where saboteurs have managed to be directly responsible for heading the fox into the hounds through a complete lack of understanding of what they are doing. 

I'd have jumped on the poster for displaying such poor skills of rhetoric whether we were debating hunting or any other issue...


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## Scratchline (13 April 2010)

Sorry for my confusion CC. The fact only a few of your examples related in anyway to harm to animals threw me x

Following the ban on cruelty to animals by certain forms of hunting there have been nearly 140 convictions I believe. Now that is as much if not far more worrying.


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## reindeerlover (13 April 2010)

Wow, hold on now- how do I know for a fact that not all anti-hunting folk are rent a mob? I would have thought that it was quite obvious! I know a lot of people who are anti hunting and I have a seen a lot of little old ladies who are "monitoring" hunts and I would swear in court that they are not rent a mob and care deeply (however badly qualified) about animal welfare. How rude of you to assume that I am making a sweeping statement when I said that not ALL of either group. Perhaps you should read the post properly.

And how do I know that the hunts are acting illegally? Because I was out with one recently and was asked to stand next to the hedge holding a horse while someone went in to turn a fox back towards the hounds- I'm pretty sure that when it is that obvious there is no question. An aquaintance of mine also saw hounds coming out of a covert covered in blood with no sound of gunshots- now in fairness, there COULD be a rational and legal explanation of that so I will not comment on it further.

How exactly am I blackening the name of hunt supporters? By saying that they swear at people? Coz they do and I'm pretty sure that you can find that one out for yourself.


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## Serenity087 (13 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Sorry for my confusion CC. The fact only a few of your examples related in anyway to harm to animals threw me x

Following the ban on cruelty to animals by certain forms of hunting there have been nearly 140 convictions I believe. Now that is as much if not far more worrying.
		
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and how many of those 140 have been hunt staff?  Surely if they'd all been red coats, hunting would have gone broke??


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## combat_claire (13 April 2010)

Farrierlover said:



			Wow, hold on now- how do I know for a fact that not all anti-hunting folk are rent a mob? I would have thought that it was quite obvious! I know a lot of people who are anti hunting and I have a seen a lot of little old ladies who are "monitoring" hunts and I would swear in court that they are not rent a mob and care deeply (however badly qualified) about animal welfare. How rude of you to assume that I am making a sweeping statement when I said that not ALL of either group. Perhaps you should read the post properly.

And how do I know that the hunts are acting illegally? Because I was out with one recently and was asked to stand next to the hedge holding a horse while someone went in to turn a fox back towards the hounds- I'm pretty sure that when it is that obvious there is no question. An aquaintance of mine also saw hounds coming out of a covert covered in blood with no sound of gunshots- now in fairness, there COULD be a rational and legal explanation of that so I will not comment on it further.

How exactly am I blackening the name of hunt supporters? By saying that they swear at people? Coz they do and I'm pretty sure that you can find that one out for yourself.
		
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This is a direct quote from your original post 




			but I know for a fact that all anti-hunting people are not rent-a-mob and will certainly not harm animals.
		
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To me that is what I would call a sweeping statement. I have provided evidence of instances that prove that you cannot categorically state that all anti-hunting people will certainly not harm animals. It doesn't matter which side of the debate you come from, the premise of your argument was technically incorrect. Do they not teach philosophy at school any more. 

I cannot comment on the specific incident that you claim to have witnessed. However since the ban I have been out with around 15 different packs and they have all been doing their utmost to comply with the law as it is written. There are over 300 packs in the UK, going out on average for 2 days a week. This makes 84,000 hunting days, yet to date there have been only 4 convictions of hunt staff under the Act and one of those was later overturned on appeal. That equates to 0.003% of hunting days ending in a conviction for illegal hunting. 

Again, both my original post and my second posting was not intended to paint hunt supporters as holier than thou. I appreciate that there have been bad incidents from both sides of the divide. However I resent the implication that everyone is like that, I presented an illustration of the approach that we take as a pack to try and move this debate on. There really is no need to throw your toys out the pram. 

This debate has never been and never will be about clear shades of black and white.


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## Scratchline (13 April 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			and how many of those 140 have been hunt staff?  Surely if they'd all been red coats, hunting would have gone broke??
		
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To be honest no idea and that is the reason I didnt make any claim about individual cases although I am sure any one of us could find out if needs be. Nearly 140 cases leading to conviction under the hunting ban says it is working well.


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## reindeerlover (13 April 2010)

Pardon me, maybe I made a statement which was easily misunderstood- I said that ALL anti-hunting people ARE NOT rent-a-mob and would not hurt animals. Thereby intending to mean that SOME may be, was I that unclear? Perhaps I should have declared that not all anti-hunting people are rent-a-mob? Whichever.

I do not know if they teach philosophy at English schools, they certainly didn't at the Irish school I went to, nor at the university I went to (perhaps I didn't do the right course?). My point was that there are bad people on the hunting side and good people on the anti side IN ADDITION to all the other things that have been claimed on here. 

Of course you cannot comment on what I "claim" to have seen as you weren't there and there is no solid evidence of the fact (yes fact) that I saw it. I must say, I had every intention of being fair and factual and because you have jumped down my throat for what I posted I am really rather perturbed! You were harsh in your first post and then when I replied you accuse ME of throwing my toys out of the pram? Wow.


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## jrp204 (13 April 2010)

I said that ALL anti-hunting people ARE NOT rent-a-mob and would not hurt animals


I think it was pretty clear!
If you didn't mean this statement why did you write it? it certainly doesn't say 'some' or 'maybe'.
I have been following this for a while and have had run ins with Scratchline in the past (but will now agree to disagree with him for other reasons) There are good and bad people in all walks of life, not all anti's are good and not all people who hunt are bad.


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## Eagle_day (13 April 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			and how many of those 140 have been hunt staff? ...
		
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Five hunt staff convicted from three hunts.  That's it.

LACS and Scratchline quoted the higher figure which is made up of poachers and coursers to make a case that the Hunting Act is working.  It isn't of course, which is why all the other anti-groups - HSA and POWA, to name but two - want the Act strengthening.


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## Eagle_day (13 April 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			and how many of those 140 have been hunt staff?  Surely if they'd all been red coats, hunting would have gone broke??
		
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Five hunt staff from three hunts.  That's it.

LACS and Scratchline (LACS employee?) quote the higher figure which is made up of poachers and hare coursers in attempt to show that the Act is working against organised fox-hunting.  It isn't of course, which is why every other anti group - like HSA and POWA - want the act strengthening.


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## reindeerlover (13 April 2010)

Am on the point of giving up and am changing my mind very quickly about how nice hunting people are..... 

If I said "all horses are not bay" would that mean that no horses are bay? Or would it mean that not all horses are bay? Why am I defending my grammer instead of my beliefs FFS??


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## rosie fronfelen (13 April 2010)

i personally think this thread has run its course and should be put to bed, insults are starting to creep and its unnecessary, there will always be antis and always be pro hunters-neither will budge on their opinions so its all getting pointless and boring.


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## Scratchline (13 April 2010)

Eagle_day said:



			Five hunt staff from three hunts.  That's it.

LACS and Scratchline (LACS employee?) quote the higher figure which is made up of poachers and hare coursers in attempt to show that the Act is working against organised fox-hunting.  It isn't of course, which is why every other anti group - like HSA and POWA - want the act strengthening.
		
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I made it clear that I was posting about the convictions under the hunting ban. As the Act covers all of these illegal activities there is no reason to separate the figures. The fact a law can be improved upon which is why I also agree with strengthening the present ban doesnt suggest for one minute the law is not working.
The hunts have found loopholes. People are vocally claiming to ignore the law. These things can and will be dealt with in due course I have no doubt.
As for now your second suggestion that i am invloved with LACS in some way I can asure you I am not.
If pushed in one direction given my understanding of the countryside, my knowledge of what the hunts get up to and my dislike of many involved I would definately go the route of the HSA.


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## Scratchline (13 April 2010)

Farrierlover said:



			Am on the point of giving up and am changing my mind very quickly about how nice hunting people are..... 

If I said "all horses are not bay" would that mean that no horses are bay? Or would it mean that not all horses are bay? Why am I defending my grammer instead of my beliefs FFS??
		
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Hi Farrierlover. Dont let them get to you. What you originally posted was clear and precise and the only, ONLY reason you are being taken to task is because you dared to be honest and question the behaviour of both sides. You cannot post freely from any anti standpoint without being jumped on which is sad because they need to debate with us and be nice to have any chance of repeal. They need the support of us all. Those of us prepared to put up with their little digs are in fact the few who actually choose to listen to their reasons for wishing to hunt. Most in the country and indeed on this forum want nothing to do with this gang but i like to let them sound off given their levels of frustration with nothing going their way.
Hunting is banned much to their dismay. Now it is becoming clear there is no chance of repeal after May 6th so they get angry. Who knows, a coalition may see the law strengthened and an end to all this nonsense lol  I see the toys laying on the ground but not around your pram you can be sure of that.


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## Scratchline (13 April 2010)

When invited by the BBC to be guests on the BBC's politics South West show for a debate about the hunting ban the Countryside Alliance refused because hunting 'is not an election issue'.
Whilst they encourage their members to scurry about campaining for pro repeal candidates for heavens sake??

On this one occasion we shall not be letting these lunatics take over the asylum! lol lol


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## Scratchline (13 April 2010)

Hi jrp hope all is well with you and your family. All good here.

Just a thought lol none of your local candidates will repeal with one as yet undecided. Oooops x


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## jrp204 (13 April 2010)

All's cool thanks S/L, candidates?????????????? is there an election?


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## mymare (13 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			On this one occasion we shall not be letting these lunatics take over the asylum! lol lol
		
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Not when it appears you're already in charge of it LOL LOL!!!!!  

Come on, you have to laugh at that!


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## JanetGeorge (14 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Yes I have shot foxes and taken many more with lurchers lamping. Being ex Irish Guards I do also understand the danger of bullets. Licensed marksmen are taking out foxes in our cities and as yet havent killed anybody so perhaps we should employ them to do the job.
		
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Tut-tut!  I hope you're still not taking foxes with lurchers - that is illegal!!  And could you substantiate your claim about 'licensed marksmen' - who licenses 'marksmen'?  The only licensing I am aware of is for firearms - and I'm damn sure that rifles are NOT being licensed for city fox control (and the police don't test the competence of holders of firearms licenses.)


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## Scratchline (14 April 2010)

mymare said:



			Not when it appears you're already in charge of it LOL LOL!!!!!  

Come on, you have to laugh at that!
		
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lol lol I am laughing at that, nice one.


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## Scratchline (14 April 2010)

JanetGeorge said:



			Tut-tut!  I hope you're still not taking foxes with lurchers - that is illegal!!  And could you substantiate your claim about 'licensed marksmen' - who licenses 'marksmen'?  The only licensing I am aware of is for firearms - and I'm damn sure that rifles are NOT being licensed for city fox control (and the police don't test the competence of holders of firearms licenses.)
		
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No I dont still work or keep lurchers but I am now looking for a Bed X Whippet to work with our fabulous little terrier.
Fox controllers in our cities are FAC licensed and Royal Society of Public Health Certificate in Pest Control Level 2 holders which allows them to shoot foxes. They used two different
methods, culling on the spot with rifles, the favoured method and live trapping then dispatched a.s.a.p.
Its suprising how much we need to know before we realise how little we know. And you can be 'damn sure', of that JG lol


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## Scratchline (14 April 2010)

p.s I do however fully believe that if any dogs ever have to be used to take foxes as humanely and quickly as possible it would be lurchers and not hounds.


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## Xlthlx (14 April 2010)

Farrierlover said:



			Am on the point of giving up and am changing my mind very quickly about how nice hunting people are..... 

If I said "all horses are not bay" would that mean that no horses are bay? Or would it mean that not all horses are bay? Why am I defending my grammer instead of my beliefs FFS??
		
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I haven't read the rest of the thread but I'd read that as saying that no horse is bay.  Was that the right answer?  Hope it helped anyhow.


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## Xlthlx (14 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			p.s I do however fully believe that if any dogs ever have to be used to take foxes as humanely and quickly as possible it would be lurchers and not hounds.
		
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I got berated for suggesting that lurchers were pretty good on foxes 

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...nline-postings-13-september-2009-1786426.html


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## ChesnutsRoasting (14 April 2010)

Lurchers are a type of dog. They are a sighthound crossed with any other breed. So for example, if crossed with a terrier they will possess more stamina. A longdog is a sighthound crossed with another breed of sighthound and will be the sprinters.  My whippet/bedlingtons would probably cause a hell of a mess if they tried to take down a big dog fox, whereas a sturdy bull/greyhound type would make a cleaner, quicker job of it.  Completely off-topic but hope this clarifies any dispute regarding lurchers versus foxes.


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## Scratchline (14 April 2010)

Xlthlx said:



			I got berated for suggesting that lurchers were pretty good on foxes 

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You shouldnt have been as far as cruelty levels go. Much more humane than the packs.


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## Serenity087 (14 April 2010)

Yes, except I haven't seen a foxhound coming home with his guts hanging out...


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## JanetGeorge (15 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Fox controllers in our cities are FAC licensed and Royal Society of Public Health Certificate in Pest Control Level 2 holders which allows them to shoot foxes. They used two different methods, culling on the spot with rifles, the favoured method and live trapping then dispatched a.s.a.p.
		
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A FAC doesn't test your ability to hit the side of a barn - merely your suitability to own and use a firearm (which includes reasons for requiring it, intended use and proof that you have safe areas to shoot.)  Some pest controllers MAY have a FAC - but a quick Google revealed 15 recent 'pest control' positions - some LA and some private - NONE of them required a FAC!!  And which LA's employ 'fox controllers' and why on EARTH would they need to  ....  ah, I forgot, to shoot foxes that dig up cricket grounds or bite small children in prams! 





			p.s I do however fully believe that if any dogs ever have to be used to take foxes as humanely and quickly as possible it would be lurchers and not hounds.
		
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That's as silly as saying all doctors can do brain surgery!  Lurchers are sight hounds, bred for speed.  Some are good catchers (some are bloody useless at catching!)  Some will kill - some more competently than others - prey that is a suitable size/weight for them.  Others will bringa live rabbit to hand unharmed!!  Far more are good on rabbits or hares than are good on foxes! 

Foxhounds are heavier and far more powerful than most lurchers and they have been bred specifically for their fox hunting/killing skills for hundreds of years in organised breeding environments - not the odd litters produced by individual breeders.  Only the BEST hunting bitches in any foxhound pack are used to produce next year's young entry - maybe 4 or 5 are chosen out of a possible 25-30!!  Hundreds of years of selective breeding means the foxhound is FAR superior to any other breed of dog for hunting foxes!


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## Scratchline (15 April 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			Yes, except I haven't seen a foxhound coming home with his guts hanging out...
		
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Thats because the cars tend to kill them outright.


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## Scratchline (15 April 2010)

skiddaw_lad said:



			why ? whats the difference ?
		
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Everything from begining to end. Its fast.


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## Bills (15 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Rubbish. Chasing foxes over time/distance and hounds ripping them apart is illegal so no nothing has escaped my notice! If nothing had changed you lot wouldnt be so desperate for repeal now, would you?! PMSL
		
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Well we hunt every week without a problem, and it has hardly changed since before the ban. So repeal or not doesn't bother me either way as it has barely affected us!


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## Scratchline (15 April 2010)

JanetGeorge said:



			A FAC doesn't test your ability to hit the side of a barn - merely your suitability to own and use a firearm (which includes reasons for requiring it, intended use and proof that you have safe areas to shoot.)  Some pest controllers MAY have a FAC - but a quick Google revealed 15 recent 'pest control' positions - some LA and some private - NONE of them required a FAC!!  And which LA's employ 'fox controllers' and why on EARTH would they need to  ....  ah, I forgot, to shoot foxes that dig up cricket grounds or bite small children in prams! 




That's as silly as saying all doctors can do brain surgery!  Lurchers are sight hounds, bred for speed.  Some are good catchers (some are bloody useless at catching!)  Some will kill - some more competently than others - prey that is a suitable size/weight for them.  Others will bringa live rabbit to hand unharmed!!  Far more are good on rabbits or hares than are good on foxes! 





Foxhounds are heavier and far more powerful than most lurchers and they have been bred specifically for their fox hunting/killing skills for hundreds of years in organised breeding environments - not the odd litters produced by individual breeders.  Only the BEST hunting bitches in any foxhound pack are used to produce next year's young entry - maybe 4 or 5 are chosen out of a possible 25-30!!  Hundreds of years of selective breeding means the foxhound is FAR superior to any other breed of dog for hunting foxes!
		
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Google urban fox control and educate yourself. As for lurchers there is a good post about it so nothing more to add other than Bull crosses do the job without any messing about.


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## Scratchline (15 April 2010)

Bills said:



			Well we hunt every week without a problem, and it has hardly changed since before the ban. So repeal or not doesn't bother me either way as it has barely affected us! 

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Good for you. Make the most of it before the law is ammended and tightened lol lol


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## Bills (15 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Good for you. Make the most of it before the law is ammended and tightened lol lol
		
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We will thanks


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## Scratchline (15 April 2010)

skiddaw_lad said:



			so a lurcher killing a fox is ok but not a hound ? and even a bull cross has only the same bite pressure as a foxhound . 




			I can assure you that is nonsense. Even some of the second cross, 3/4 greyhound 1/4 pit bulls I bred from my stud pit would shock the sh8t out of you. A fox hound does not have a bite anything like such lurchers.

[qoute]ive also googled urban fox control and very few even mention shooting and only with a caged fox
		
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Did you purposely ignore the Urban fox, Pest Control UK site right at the top of the page? Dont you remember Bruce Lindsay-Smith who was on TV a couple of years ago shooting foxes in West London with his rifle? Did you ignore the surrey fox control site amongst many others talking about culling with rifles? The evidence is right in front of you but you chose not to read it!
		
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## ChesnutsRoasting (15 April 2010)

"I can assure you that is nonsense. Even some of the second cross, 3/4 greyhound 1/4 pit bulls I bred from my stud pit would shock the sh8t out of you. A fox hound does not have a bite anything like such lurchers."

Who posted that? I can't find it


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## Scratchline (16 April 2010)

blazingsaddles said:



			"I can assure you that is nonsense. Even some of the second cross, 3/4 greyhound 1/4 pit bulls I bred from my stud pit would shock the sh8t out of you. A fox hound does not have a bite anything like such lurchers."

Who posted that? I can't find it

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Skiddaw_lad posted that foxhounds have the same bite pressure.


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## rosie fronfelen (16 April 2010)

how come you still have a stud pit bull? are they not illegal-


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## Scratchline (16 April 2010)

skiddaw_lad said:





Scratchline said:



			no i said "very few", or cant you read or wont you , but as you claim you were with the Irish Guards , you should know about shooting around buildings with any sort of center or rimfire  weapon is not recomended and even with a open licence will be frowned upon by the law .

personaly i prefer the a terrier and humane killer/cage trap in urban enviroments , in open country during the day (at this present stage of the law) two hounds  ,a terrier and a shotgun at night I would use the .308 .(but i would like a .50 bmg but you would say thats cruel)




			I know what you are saying but to be fair I only posted that rifles are used abd so far safely.




			oh btw , arn't any pit bull crosses included in the dangerous dogs act ??? and isnt it slightly illegal to have them as stud dogs and irresponsible
		
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Yes they are. I havent kept or worked lurchers for a number of years and when the DDA came in, having done all we could via radio stations and the press to prevent it, I registered my stud having him castrated, micro chipped, insured, tattoo'd and muzzled from that day on. It broke my heart and he was a shadow of his former self until he died 8 yrs later. One thing of note, when there was talk of a new law recently regarding dogs and insurance etc the insurance costs being talked of were in the hundreds of pounds?? We were all paying just ten pounds a year and that was for pit bulls. Inflation or rip of Britain again?
		
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## Scratchline (16 April 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			how come you still have a stud pit bull? are they not illegal-
		
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I havent I used to have one but have explained (now it seems I need to?? ), in the last post. I wonder why everyone is so quick to jump to the wrong conclusion lol lol


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## rosie fronfelen (16 April 2010)

BEFORE you are so ready to jump down my throat i was answering a post by Blazing Saddles, not you-


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## Scratchline (16 April 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			how come you still have a stud pit bull? are they not illegal-
		
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On a very serious note, as it interests me I still keep myself informed about pit bulls. They are so readily avaliable the law as it stands is and absolute joke. Googling either red nose pup/red nose staff pup etc and the dogs are very, very easy to find. I dont like the situation one bit. Before the law came in the pits were not so popular and we mostly were able to keep the bad owners away from them. The two dogs that basically led to the law being introduced ( after the death by again a Rottwieller), after attacks on poor Rukhsana Khan and the baker Frank tempest were never caught, identified or their owners found. The red tops however went into overdrive with scare stories.
Now the so called chavs have easy access to them it is really not a good situation. I cannot blame the breed from what I learned about them.


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## Serenity087 (16 April 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Thats because the cars tend to kill them outright.
		
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Erm... no.

It was the unfortunate outcome of Lurcher Vs. Fox (the humane way, according to you).  Lurcher got his speedy little ass whipped.

He made it (because all pro hunters hate animals so much he was denied veterinary care, obviously!) - and I met him at the hunt kennels (irony).

But I don't understand how setting a dog on a fox is any more cruel than setting a dog on a fox.  Am I missing the point?  Or is the point simply it's ok when you do it, but cruel when soemone richer than you does it?

P.S. - Some of the Irish Guards are really rather scrummy... but I very much doubt any of them are as ignorant about using guns in proximity to buildings as you are!


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## Scratchline (16 April 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			BEFORE you are so ready to jump down my throat i was answering a post by Blazing Saddles, not you-
		
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Not my intention to jump down your throat so I apologise. I prefer lighthearted discussion but eveyone gets so serious on here it becomes infectious. Please ignore anything that seems snappy as it really isnt meant to be.


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## Scratchline (16 April 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			Erm... no.

It was the unfortunate outcome of Lurcher Vs. Fox (the humane way, according to you).  Lurcher got his speedy little ass whipped.

He made it (because all pro hunters hate animals so much he was denied veterinary care, obviously!) - and I met him at the hunt kennels (irony).

But I don't understand how setting a dog on a fox is any more cruel than setting a dog on a fox.  Am I missing the point?  Or is the point simply it's ok when you do it, but cruel when soemone richer than you does it?

P.S. - Some of the Irish Guards are really rather scrummy... but I very much doubt any of them are as ignorant about using guns in proximity to buildings as you are!
		
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See, here is me apologising to one poster for the way I post sometimes and then you come in mouthing off for no good reason?! Once more as you have obviously ignored what I have actually written I dont run dogs after animals anymore. I believe it was wrong and is wrong therefore I have merely with experience of all aspects of hunting changed my mind about the humaness of some. I believe if any HAD to be legal  (so no I am not promioting it!), then the most humane way would be with lurchers. It is quick and final not a dragged out jolly for the hunters on horses.
Now you hit me with some rediculous comment about wealth????! Whilst the economy has been in desperate times Labout have managed to keep the interest rate around 1%. Given that I have a large amount of money in various high interest accounts I would love a Conservative government who when the economy was last in trouble managed to get interest rates to 15.3%. So no, it aint about money honey.
As for being ignorant about using guns around buildings save you little dig for someone who actually does so. I merely pointed out that is what is happening!


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## rosie fronfelen (16 April 2010)

apology accepted, but surely it Is illegal to still breed these poor unfortunate dogs, no reply as yet from BS-


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## ChesnutsRoasting (16 April 2010)

Hang on, I haven't stated I own or bred any bull crosses


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## rosie fronfelen (16 April 2010)

so you deny saying you had/have a stud pit, BS, what about your last post???


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## Scratchline (16 April 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			apology accepted, but surely it Is illegal to still breed these poor unfortunate dogs, no reply as yet from BS-
		
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Well yes it is illegal now but wasnt when i was breeding them.


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## Scratchline (16 April 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			so you deny saying you had/have a stud pit, BS, what about your last post???
		
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It was me he used to have the stud pit bull so I think there is some confusion. It wasnt balazingsaddles lol


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## rosie fronfelen (16 April 2010)

i am totally confused now, all i am going by is the fact that BS said he/she bred from a "stud pit"- or are you and this person one of the same, please explain. lol!!!


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## ChesnutsRoasting (16 April 2010)

Crikey, has someone been on the cherry brandy already, bit early for that!  Seriously, I haven't posted about owning or breeding bull/greyhounds, I only suggested they were a better lurcher for taking foxes than a little skinny rabbiter.  But FYI bull/greyhound lurchers are still popular, some second or even third generation and I have no doubt that there are plenty of 'pit bull types' (rolls eyes) alive and kicking in many inner cities across the country.

Scratchline and I are not one and the same, just have an appreciation of a decent working lurcher so no need to start sticking pins.


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## rosie fronfelen (16 April 2010)

blazingsaddles said:



			"I can assure you that is nonsense. Even some of the second cross, 3/4 greyhound 1/4 pit bulls I bred from my stud pit would shock the sh8t out of you. A fox hound does not have a bite anything like such lurchers."

Who posted that? I can't find it

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no, i have NOT been on the cherry brandy or anything else, so do you deny saying this, simple question requiring a simple answer- also what do you know of a hounds bite. lol!!


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## rosie fronfelen (16 April 2010)

i am not sticking pins, no point in that rubbish, but would just like a straight answer, also we have had lurchers ourselves for years and lost our old dear last year after so many faithful years and now we have a brindle cracker, who is brill. at her job already.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (16 April 2010)

"I can assure you that is nonsense. Even some of the second cross, 3/4 greyhound 1/4 pit bulls I bred from my stud pit would shock the sh8t out of you. A fox hound does not have a bite anything like such lurchers."


I marked the above statement with quotation marks as it was taken from another post! 
The bit below was the part I wrote.

Who posted that? I can't find it

...........and I still can't find it!

also, Scratchline has stated he wrote the part I have marked with quotation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and I also haven't stated anything about a hounds bite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!slowly losing the will to live..........................


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## rosie fronfelen (16 April 2010)

i guess i owe you an apology, i am now totally confused and think it is best to let sleeping dogs ly.i think this is to do with Scratchlines posts and i have misconstrued everything. so please feel free to regain your desire to live!!


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## Serenity087 (17 April 2010)

I don't do mouthing off, Scratchline, I've got a decent argument for hunting, I don't need to call names!

I post with a touch of humour... (I'm a little hyperactive 99% of the time) - so do yourself a favour, read what I say as you imagine I might say it (picture me hanging off the ceiling if it helps!) and don't take it personally!!


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