# Mare Milk Replacer



## Jamana (7 April 2012)

Can anyone recommend a good milk replacer? Has anybody had either very good or very bad results with any particular brand.

We don't have an orphan foal thankfully, but we do have a mare with severe gastric ulcers that just will not drink enough to produce milk this time. She has not foaled yet, looks like  3-4 days to go, but we are going to have to be prepared to think about supplement feeding. 

Does anyone have any experience of mixing bucket and natural milk feeding?


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## JanetGeorge (8 April 2012)

It can be hard to mix natural and bottle feeding IME (lambs are much easier!)  Wouldn't it be easier to sort the mare - get her on Gastroguard FAST - and Cocoa is reputed to boost milk supply!  If foal is suckling and she's not producing enough, either foal will decline - OR - he'll give her udder such a beating that you'll be treating mastitis too!


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## Maesfen (8 April 2012)

Echo Janet but I used D & H Equilac when I had the foster foals which was easy to get hold of (any D & H stockist should be able to get it, if not ring D & H themselves, they will help) and it was very easy to mix, they took it well.  Be warned, no milk replacer is a cheap option; think a tub is £35-ish and will last on average, 6 days depending on how much is needed but it's cheap if the mare has no milk and you can still raise your foal.
As to mixing the two methods, not sure that will work but if you feed a replacer take the time to get it on the bucket straight away rather than faff with bottles (you might need to bottle the first main feed if the mare doesn't milk though) as otherwise you later have the problem of weaning to a bucket from a bottle which is much harder than you think!  One tip, they also prefer light coloured buckets and a shallow bowl (something like a feed scoop or kitchen mixing bowl) at first is easier as they don't like to get their heads down into the dark of a bucket.  If foal does not get anything off the mare then it will need supplementary feeding even at that young age; D & H Suregrow is excellent for that (no, I don't work for them just find their stud feeds excellent!)
Good luck, let us know how you get on.


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## Jamana (8 April 2012)

Thanks for your replies.

Janet, we managed to get her through last year using cocoa powder. But this year she is making hardly any bag. She generally foals at 340-343 days, but we are here at 337 days with every other sign that a foal is immanent but with only half a bag, at best, if you are optimistic. She barely drinks, overnight she will drink the equivalent of one bucket on a good night. Other than that she will take 'sips'. She looks dehydrated and obs that is why there is no milk.

As for Gastroguard, yes she is being treated and has twice daily doses. But her ulcers are of long-standing and she now has significant gut damage. It is more a case of managing the symptoms rather than 'curing' the ulcer.

This will be her 6th foal and each year has been tricky. Her now-yearling is a windsucker like the mother and also has ulcers. We are wanting to nip it in the bud this year hence why we are hoping to try and supplement milk feed the foal. All foals are creep fed anyway (baring DOD/epiphisytis issue of course) but until the foal is 6wks it is my understanding that they cannot digest grains. And certainly not at a level to replace milk entirely.

Maesfen. Thank you for your recommendation of Equilac. We always used to feed D&H stud feeds but have found Red Mills complements our ground better. However I can't see a milk replacer product from them. But having used D&H I would 'trust' their diet. Strange really how we can gain a sense of trust from what is a commercial company!

We have been speaking to our Vet, but I like to hear opinions from people that have actually USED a product and know what it is like to deal with on a daily basis. Rather than a Vet that swans in and out and dishes out advice but has never had to stand and actually mix up stuff that doesn't want to mix, and get a foal to drink what it knows is synthetic!

It is  little bit daunting to have to think about bottles,buckets and replacers as we have always used foster mares in the case of any orphans. So I am grateful for any advice from you all.

I would like to point out that the mare in question is NOT owned by myself, but by the TB stud on which my husband is the Stud Groom. From a purely personal point of view I think the mare should have been PTS several years ago, but certainly should not be bred from. However the Owner is determined to continue with her and so the job of managing her and her foals health and welfare falls to my husband and myself.


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## tristar (8 April 2012)

is the national foaling bank  in shropshire, still going? because if it is i would ask miss vardon who runs it, i would think she has come across this before in her vast experience of dealing with  things related to a post foaling problems, including if necessary adoptions where all else fails, good luck!


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## Sportznight (8 April 2012)

Talk to your vet about Domperidone!  It's excellent at increasing the mares own milk supply (if fed before foaling, they often foal within 48hrs too! Though that's not an exact science, as only ever done on overdue mares).


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## henryhorn (8 April 2012)

We have reared a few orphans now and my advice is make sure you end up only supplementing the mare not replacing her, or you will end up being tied to the bottle/bucket regime for months. 
Can't recall what we used, Equi something I think, came from first our vet then the local ag supplier, but I do remember it being incredibly expensive as the foal grew. 
I am sure your vet can inject the mare to help with milk production , probably if this was our mare I would be offering any liquid such as diluted apple juice, beet water etc.
It's certainly do=able but a lot of work and better than a true orphan because you won't need to do a lot of through the night feeds as the mare wil surely have some milk if not a lot?


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## koeffee (8 April 2012)

domperidone is excellent for mare producing more milk, also used for sickness in humans?!!! cant help be think if this is a problem for the mare every year why put her through it??


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## carmenlucy123 (8 April 2012)

I used baileys milk replacer this was £113 ANC lasted around 6 days :/ how old is the foal? Our orphaned 3 month old took to the bucket herself we didn't have to do anything
The truck is to come over the top of the head put fingers in mouth and use your arm to gently push the head down into bucket but once you have done it say for the first day you'll be surprised how quick they work it out!


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## Maesfen (8 April 2012)

carmenlucy123 said:



			I used baileys milk replacer this was £113 ANC lasted around 6 days
		
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How much?! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I thought £35 a tub was bad enough (especially with two foals)  I seem to remember I got through well over 30 tubs until they were weaned at five months.


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## carmenlucy123 (9 April 2012)

I know! It was a 20k bag lasted just under a week! I couldn't find much cheaper though I thought OMG when I saw your post!!!! 
What weight was the £35 tub?
After the first month I did manage to stretch the milk further though but I bought god knows how many bags spent well over £1000! Probably £1500!!!


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## carmenlucy123 (9 April 2012)

carmenlucy123 said:



			I know! It was a 20k bag lasted just under a week! I couldn't find much cheaper though I thought OMG when I saw your post!!!! 
What weight was the £35 tub?
After the first month I did manage to stretch the milk further though but I bought god knows how many bags spent well over £1000! Probably £1500!!!
		
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Yeah they all work out about the Same just my bag was bigger even the SCA mulimilk for goats/sheep/cows/horses came in at over £80 for 20kg


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## Maesfen (9 April 2012)

carmenlucy123 said:



			I know! It was a 20k bag lasted just under a week! I couldn't find much cheaper though I thought OMG when I saw your post!!!! 
What weight was the £35 tub?
After the first month I did manage to stretch the milk further though but I bought god knows how many bags spent well over £1000! Probably £1500!!!
		
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The tub was 10kg and depending on the size and number of the feeds lasted from 5 days upwards.  At first they were on 2 hourly feeds for a month, then 3 hours for 6 weeks, 4 hours for a month, then six hours for a month, then just two feeds a day until they were weaned completely at just over five months.  And yes, I can remember it well, my sleep patterns have never been the same since! 
The only other things they had were Suregrow along with soft meadow hay or grazing and they grew very well, slowly but surely, no growth spurts at all really.


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## Cherrygarden (10 April 2012)

I was just about to recommend the Baileys as I went against all advise and changed the foal off the milk replacer she came home from Rossdales with as I was sure it was contributing to her gut ache. Research showed that in the US they are well aware of the D and H contributing to ulcers which is a big help with orphan foals! I don't think I paid that for the Baileys back then though.....I am fairly sure I ended up saving money but said foal turned five yesterday so....
I like it because you can make it in a bucket and leave it at room temperature for them to drink as and when. I did all the night feeds anyway until she got the hang of haynets and variety buckets (which was some time later) however we could never leave it in the field as my daughters pony will guzzle milk replacer with great enjoyment. The other horses thought it was poison though and wouldn't touch it. I also eventually used SCA multimilk when she was down to one feed at night and for wasting it mixed up with creep feed and chop that she then wouldn't eat. That was £6-9 per bag though back then and now I see is £18.
My advice make it so expensive for the owner that they give up! And if you are feeding the foal with milk replacers treat the foals for ulcers anyway. Goats are also supposed to be very good at producing enough milk for foals.


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## TBB (10 April 2012)

We have reared a couple of orphans with no difficulties and no ulcers (Thank God) . We used a milk replacer which comes in 10kg bags and costs approx 50euro its called Golden Colt, can't remember the name of the manufacturer but they also make Golden Maverick for calves. we also put the foal on milk pellets as soon as they would eat them and weaned them off the milk gradually as per instructions on bag. The pellets were called Horse Power and were a bit dearer than the powder for the same size bag, we got them directly from Red Mills but I believe that Thoroughbred Remedies who sell on line also stock both now. Until you have to do it yourself its hard to believe how time consuming it is working with mares who have a problem feeding their foals and unfortunately for OP until the mare's owner has to do it themselves or be hit hard in the pocket, they will remain oblivious. Good luck with it OP, as a regular Red Mills user why not give the office in Goresbridge a call I've always found them very helpful.


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## Maesfen (10 April 2012)

I have to admit to not being aware of any warnings re ulcers by using Equilac at all; if it was general knowledge then I'm sure it wouldn't be used on so many of the top stud farms and I'm sure most of them would be on top of foal nutrition in a big way so would not use something thought to be dangerous.


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## Sportznight (11 April 2012)

Cherrygarden said:



			I was just about to recommend the Baileys as I went against all advise and changed the foal off the milk replacer she came home from Rossdales with as I was sure it was contributing to her gut ache. Research showed that in the US they are well aware of the D and H contributing to ulcers which is a big help with orphan foals! I don't think I paid that for the Baileys back then though.....I am fairly sure I ended up saving money but said foal turned five yesterday so....
I like it because you can make it in a bucket and leave it at room temperature for them to drink as and when. I did all the night feeds anyway until she got the hang of haynets and variety buckets (which was some time later) however we could never leave it in the field as my daughters pony will guzzle milk replacer with great enjoyment. The other horses thought it was poison though and wouldn't touch it. I also eventually used SCA multimilk when she was down to one feed at night and for wasting it mixed up with creep feed and chop that she then wouldn't eat. That was £6-9 per bag though back then and now I see is £18.
My advice make it so expensive for the owner that they give up! And if you are feeding the foal with milk replacers treat the foals for ulcers anyway. Goats are also supposed to be very good at producing enough milk for foals.
		
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Hi Cherrygarden - do you know where I (we) can find the research you mention?  Thanks


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## Maesfen (11 April 2012)

Cherrygarden said:



			I like it because you can make it in a bucket and leave it at room temperature for them to drink as and when. I did all the night feeds anyway until she got the hang of haynets and variety buckets (which was some time later) however we could never leave it in the field as my daughters pony will guzzle milk replacer with great enjoyment.
		
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This regime was suggested to me but I could never use it as the foals would have wolfed the lot down at one sitting then be without just when they needed it and possibly have been ill through over loading themselves which IMHO would have been a recipe for ulcers rather than the regular feeds they were given.  I'd also have never dared to leave any foal with a haynet let alone my two, they'd have strung themselves up no bother at all!
Neither scoured or had any digestive troubles at all (they're now strapping healthy four year olds with no sign that they were artificially reared from a fortnight old) but they were allowed to be normal foals; the only difference for them was they had no dam to feed them or keep them in order although my other horses did a good job of that.

I too would be interested in that research as I'm useless at finding those sort of things myself.


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## Cherrygarden (11 April 2012)

Maesfen she was a fair bit bigger before she had a haynet, I did a lot of night feeds. She was very delicate or very tough depending on how you look at it and really shouldn't be here at all. I also thought the feeding intervals she came home with were not helping as they were too far apart so moved her back to half hour feed intervals and smaller feeds. In the beginning it was hard to get anything in but then after changing milk and ulcer prevention/treatment regime slightly she would guzzle, it took quite a while to be able to leave a large feed ie two hours worth while I went to the shop or to teach and always worked best outside but I felt safer being able to leave it so that if she didn't drink it all then it would keep for her to have later.
The ulcer link came from rescue centres raising orphan/premarin foals and was confirmed by other breeders but as for cold hard research I am not sure there is any, I will look again. Clearly Rossdales like Equilac, the National Foaling Bank like Aintree, I liked the Baileys but at the time it was pretty much a given that fighting ulcers was going to be a big part of raising an orphan so I doubt anyone looked much into which milk was best or worst. I didn't like the fact that it smelled like sour milk and however carefully I mixed it and blended the water in at whatever temperature it would still be lumpy by the time I had walked it to her stable. I wasn't going to like it and was quite happy to let anecdotal evidence from others confirm by dark suspicions.


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## Cherrygarden (11 April 2012)

"my" dark suspicions that should read.


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## Cherrygarden (11 April 2012)

I can't find anything now either, I can't even think what I would have been googling that lead me to it my brains were that addled but I don't think I dreamed it.......It was a blog or website that I first saw it mentioned on and then googled to find out more which I did. However even in five years foal and orphan management has changed as have feeds and supplements so anything I read then may well have been down to something that isn't there any more or user error or just more foals surviving. Who knows sorry for panic, still don't like Equilac but don't have to drink it currently so will stop talking about it.
To the OP good milking goats can be quite expensive I have been told so maybe putting a couple on the mare owners bill would be a good thing?


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## Laafet (12 April 2012)

We use the Aintree one, sadly had to use it a bit this year. The last time I had to use it for any real length of time, from foaling up until he went home at around 2 or 3 months old, I saw no problems with scouring etc. Foal grew up to be a real nice individual and made 70k at the yearlings sales.


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## Jamana (12 April 2012)

Many thanks for all of your replies. It is the 'personal' experiences that I am looking for, like Cherrygarden's, I know how sometimes you just don't get on with a product for no particular reason and others think it's great. It is a similar thing for us with feed we love Red Mills but have never got on with the very popular Saracen. Horses for courses!

The vet came out yesterday and says the mare is approaching 50% dehydration. She is now on a special elecrolyte mix, the same as they use for cows with milk fever. We have to drench her with half of it over a about an hour period and then she is left with the rest for the night. Her food has been changed to a very wet oat mash as it is the only thing she will eat. Not ideal and we have tried everything to try and keep her on her stud cubes, but have just had to hope that eating something (and something with plenty of added water) has got to be better than eating hardly anything. It was suggested that soaking her hay would be a way of adding more water, but she won't eat it wet at all.....will pick at about 1 slice dry overnight.

She has more ulcer treatment on order, after demanding the owner did something. Though he is still working on the theory that she 'might be ok'.

Vet did not think that Domperione would be suitable for this case, as the deficiency is in her water consumption not in her hormone production or suppression. He also said that it (domperidone)  can increase thirst and demand for water and could actually exacerbate her discomfort.

We have some foal milk replacer here now, I think it is called Happy Horse, or something similar. But it is used as a supplementary feed for similar situations.

Many thanks for all of your input. Now we have the waiting game for her to produce a foal. She is currently 2 days overdue.............


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