# British Horseracing and the latest Scandal



## palo1 (13 March 2015)

So...the country whose ruler is one of the biggest players in racing and is also the most influential individual in endurance racing has been thrown out of the FEI for horse abuse and cheating on a massive, systematic scale.  Horses being horribly injured and dying on an unacceptable scale, faked races, multiple horses carrying the same microchip numbers, failure to abide by international rules and so on and so on.  Can British horseracing ignore this?  What will HH do or say do you think on the subject?  Is this too large an issue to be brushed under the carpet perhaps?


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## Elf On A Shelf (13 March 2015)

Racing has nothing to do with endurance apart from the owner. 

In response to your question - no. The BHA will do nothing because of the above and also the fact that the blame would fall on the trainer so the owners would get off scott free. Not overly much happened when a load of horses got done for steroids because the trainer was made the scapegoat.


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## Clodagh (13 March 2015)

What has it got to do with horseracing? I bthink you are getting your sports confused.


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## palo1 (13 March 2015)

Not confused at all!  I believe it will be too difficult an issue for BHA because there are probably too many vested interests and yes the blame will be laid at the trainers' feet.  The thing is though, that if it is possible to have such monumental failing, cheating, doping etc in one horse sport and on such a huge and organised scale, is it really possible to believe that the other is truly clean?   Horse racing clearly has much to safeguard it in some ways but even so...it seems hard to stomach really.  I will be interested to read comments from the UAE, though don't expect to hear anything from HH himself.


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## Alec Swan (13 March 2015)

I take your point palo1 and were the BHA to show solidarity with the FEI,  and hand down a similar banishment,  then it would be throughly deserved,  BUT put simply, .. it aint gonna happen!  Even his own doping scandals of his own race horses has penalty and punishment meted out to the trainers,  as EKW says.

It seems that with 'some' of the Middle Eastern owners,  NOT all,  that their remarkable generosity,  especially to the town of Newmarket,  and with the numbers of staff employed and the number of allied Professions and Trades which are given employment in that town,  and are wholly reliant upon such business,  that money really does talk.

Much as I loathe all forms of corruption and deceit in sport,  I'm really not sure of the answer,  except that were there a clear ruling,  endorsed by the BHA,  that owners will be held equally responsible for their Trainer's actions,  and in the event of irrefutable evidence being offered,  will be similarly dealt with,  then perhaps we may see those who would cheat with apparent impunity,  thinking carefully before they issue their instructions!

Just to clarify the above comments,  I'm assured that Judmonte which is run from Newmarket is ethical and correct in all their dealings,  so we should be clear that it isn't ALL of the Middle Eastern owners who are at fault.

Alec.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 March 2015)

Best to take their money and don't allow them control. When they first started out on the UK they had no respect for english trainers, I mean on a personal basis, they considered them to be servants, its not likely things have changed much under the surface, but they do behave a bit better re social conventions.
One of the biggest houses in Newmarket is totally "Middle East in style", I assume that planning palms were greased !
No way should BHA intervene, its not their business.


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## popsdosh (13 March 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			I take your point palo1 and were the BHA to show solidarity with the FEI,  and hand down a similar banishment,  then it would be throughly deserved,  BUT put simply, &#8230;&#8230;.. it aint gonna happen!  Even his own doping scandals of his own race horses has penalty and punishment meted out to the trainers,  as EKW says.


Alec.
		
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Even when the drugs were found on their private plane at Stanstead they got off!
Sheik Mohammed reportedly was furious about it !! Getting caught I thinks!


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## palo1 (13 March 2015)

Of course, it would be entirely inappropriate to suggest that all ME enterprises have these problems. I didn't intend to suggest that at all. Also, it's impossible to imagine the implications for huge numbers of people working perfectly honestly in racing were the BHA to stand with the FEI on this issue.  Not to mention the political fall out...It's just that the endurance scandal is on a pretty huge scale and is directly connected with HH Sheik Mohammed. It must be a teeny bit embarrassing to the powers that be, in racing. I mean, is it just not going to be mentioned? Bit of awkward silence maybe? The thing is too, that the scandal is probably now too big, at least in the middle east, the US and Europe to go away.  Other equestrian disciplines are quite cross about it tooand unlikely to let it lie.  Good thing HH has a crack media team...


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## palo1 (13 March 2015)

EKW said:



			Racing has nothing to do with endurance apart from the owner. 
But the owner is hugely influential in both sports...
		
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## bonny (13 March 2015)

I don't really get your point on this ? The problems are to do with endurance racing mostly abroad as far as I know, why implicate the BHA?


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## palo1 (13 March 2015)

Because a key figure and owner/financial power at the top of both sports is one and the same. The cheating, faked races, faked microchips etc is clearly organised on a significant scale. Does no one outside endurance worry about ringers, fake identities et al? Is it really unthinkable that there could be any common practices or admin? In the Middle East, endurance racing is very serious and very big business, akin to horse-racing in fact.


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## Elf On A Shelf (13 March 2015)

palo1 said:



			Because a key figure and owner/financial power at the top of both sports is one and the same. The cheating, faked races, faked microchips etc is clearly organised on a significant scale. Does no one outside endurance worry about ringers, fake identities et al? Is it really unthinkable that there could be any common practices or admin? In the Middle East, endurance racing is very serious and very big business, akin to horse-racing in fact.
		
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Wht he does with a competition he created is his own prerogative. He has not got his foot in the door of the BHA he merely stands on the mat. He will never get his foot in that door either.


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## bonny (13 March 2015)

palo1 said:



			Because a key figure and owner/financial power at the top of both sports is one and the same. The cheating, faked races, faked microchips etc is clearly organised on a significant scale. Does no one outside endurance worry about ringers, fake identities et al? Is it really unthinkable that there could be any common practices or admin? In the Middle East, endurance racing is very serious and very big business, akin to horse-racing in fact.
		
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I don't think any of that is relevant to flat racing in this country...no one runs ringers and I believe the authorities are doing their best to tighten up on the steroid abuse that has been happening. It's not really comparable to Middle East endurance racing and the only connection as far as I can see is some prominent owners. That in itself doesn't mean the two sports have the same problems.


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## palo1 (14 March 2015)

That is all true bonny and EKW and good to hear that there is real confidence in British racing's integrity.   I can see it a bit differently but I don't much about racing and have seen and heard too much about certain influential owners to have the same confidence, but perhaps I am a born cynic!!


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## pip6 (19 March 2015)

IMHO any person (and no-one in particular) who is willing to cheat in one sport, be that by switching horses, switching riders, doping, injecting with snake venom, twitching ears, releasing 'failed' horses into desert to die ie 'let allah decide its fate',ice in rectum, hooding with blinkers covered in duct tape virtually blinding horse so inexperienced rider can cope, extra long reins to whip horses in section where whips are banned, getting grooms to hit horses when they are tired, scaring them with the crew cars, creating fake FEI events to qualify horses for longer races etc etc the is going to be trustworthy in another equine sport, then you are far more trusting than I.

It's about time flat racing, and ALL other horse sports looked beyond there own niche as to what is happening regarding horse abuse from certain sectors of the globe that supply copious sponsorship. How much can be ignored? And let's not get into a damning endurance discussion, abuse happens in ALL horse sport. That doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to keep getting the cash on offer.


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## palo1 (26 March 2015)

Well said Pip6. It seems odd to me that other equestrian disciplines aren't furious and anxious about this.


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## Dobiegirl (26 March 2015)

Im sure the BHA are fully aware of what has happened over the endurance scandal and the same culprits seem to be involved with racing as well. Having said that they have their own rules and will make sure they are enforced as we have already seen. They will not want to alienate those owners whose trainers have been caught out but Im sure they are hoping the message is getting through loud and clear and those owners know they will not benefit in any way by cheating.

At least I hope and pray this is the case for racing in this country because if that is not the case the consequences dont bear thinking about, our racing will go down the pan.


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## Mooseontheloose (28 March 2015)

Why stop at racing? I've seen a horse in a dressage yard with blood blisters and open sores on it's sides where the trainer has been attempting to make it into something it isn't. And yes, I did report it to the authoties, waste of time.
And don't forget the event horses run on medication, the show jumpers running lame, medicated, sensitised.
A BSJA official told me that at a foreign show the smell of jeyes fluid was overwhelming, not to disinfect the stables but to mask the smell of the fluid being rubbed into the horses' coronets. Said official didn't do anything about it because of the importance of the people involved. I think in other worlds it's called the Savile effect.
How many people think that rules don't actually apply to them?


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## fatpiggy (30 March 2015)

Mooseontheloose said:



			Why stop at racing? I've seen a horse in a dressage yard with blood blisters and open sores on it's sides where the trainer has been attempting to make it into something it isn't. And yes, I did report it to the authoties, waste of time.
And don't forget the event horses run on medication, the show jumpers running lame, medicated, sensitised.
A BSJA official told me that at a foreign show the smell of jeyes fluid was overwhelming, not to disinfect the stables but to mask the smell of the fluid being rubbed into the horses' coronets. Said official didn't do anything about it because of the importance of the people involved. I think in other worlds it's called the Savile effect.
How many people think that rules don't actually apply to them?
		
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Its all about money I'm afraid.  It buys you influence and you can shut up the dissenters either with bribes or blackmail.  Look at the palaver in professional cycling.  The powers that be knew FULL WELL that drugs were being used 30 years or more ago but turned a blind eye.  Now the exception to the rule is the competitor who doesn't cheat.


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## Maesfen (30 March 2015)

I'm with Palo and Pip; I wouldn't trust them to look after a spider; everything they touch is tainted.  Wouldn't be so bad (well it would because of the abuse involved) if not only trainers got their just deserts but that owners had any prizes from the concerned horse confiscated too so that they did share the blame and didn't profit from it either.


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## pip6 (31 March 2015)

All abuse should be abhorrent and not tolerated, period. My issue is the leniency certain peoples and countries have enjoyed, in more than one horse sport, in return for copious monies and sponsorship of events. It is time to look beyond the money and say the rules apply equally to everyone, and accept toys will be thrown out the pram and yes british racing should be more independant of this dirty money. The industry may have a hard time transforming, but hell we've all had a hard time in the recession. Better that than to keep looking the other way and just culling the odd trainer when practices come to light, the rot is far deeper. I love NH racing, a major reason why is the lack of this money, I trust it to be a far cleaner sport. Horses in sport are wonderful, but if we ask them to perform at their athletic peaks we also have the responsibility to treat them ethically, and not abuse our dominant position.

Endurance as a sport is currently split by a huge chasm. Those who want to compete in endurance, taking on the tough tracks where horsemanship is key to success, and those who want to belt around flat tracks at high speed doing long distance flat racing. They are worlds apart, one cherishes their mounts, usually one horse owner/rider/trainer combinations, the other has a huge stable to pull from trained professionally and ridden frequently to death (in most group vii race rides horses die) whereon it is replaced by another (even switching within a race). The fei has turned a blind eye for many years to keep the sponsorship coming in, to the point now they don't just abuse the horses but make up fake race results to get qualifications (12 races identified as fake so far - results were uploaded onto fei database by their national federation). This rubbish is happening, these people are cheating, these people are involved in uk flat racing. The time may well be coming where uk flat racing has to make a choice, as eventually happened to the fei. Do you keep the cash and turn a blind eye to dubious practices, or take the moral stand even though short term it will have a major economic impact to the industry. It's not a time for head in the sand, nothing going on in our game. Cheats cheat, whatever the sport.


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## Dobiegirl (31 March 2015)

JEREMY NOSEDA, who saddled Sloane Avenue to finish second in Saturday's Godolphin Mile and then questioned the draw of winner and hot favourite Tamarkuz, has apologised for his outburst.

Owned by former BHA chairman Paul Roy's wife Sue and ridden by Frankie Dettori, Sloane Avenue went down by a short head in the $1 million Group 2 after which Newmarket trainer Noseda said: "I don't know how a horse [Tamarkuz] gets drawn in stall one or two in four consecutive races.

RELATED LINKS
Godolphin Mile result 
"I've got no doubt Sloane's the best horse in the race and he didn't win. I'm just a bit upset with the draw as I think it's cost him. I don't want to, but I feel like a bad loser after that."

He backtracked on those comments on Monday, saying: "I knew my horse was ready to run the race of his life, but after the draw I realised the odds were heavily stacked against us.

"My passion, competitive desire to win the race and the frustration of going so close just came to the surface when I was interviewed moments afterwards."

Noseda, who will prepare Sloane Avenue for the Grade 1 Met Mile at Belmont Park on June 6, added on his website:  "I apologise to the owner and connections of a very brave winner, if I upset them. Likewise, I want to apologise to the Dubai Racing Club. My comments were made in the heat of the moment."

Tamarkuz, who runs in the colours of Hamdan Al Maktoum, is trained by Musabah Al Muhairi and was ridden by Paul Hanagan. He could also head to the States later this year.


This is a case in point, the winner and this draw and his previous draws, he wouldnt have been so lucky over here with his draws and the trainer of the second horse was right in my opinion to speak out even though he retracted his statement. Its common knowledge if you go out there that the local horses always are well drawn and it wont have been missed by the BHA, their hands are tied though so unless they infringe on the rules over here there isnt a fat lot you can do.

Im like you PIp NH is my preferred sport and one Ive loved for a very long time, does shenanigans go on there? Im sure but its more likely to be detected and dealt with but I hope its very rare.


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## madlady (31 March 2015)

I think it's about time the British racing industry did take notice (and action) over what happens elsewhere as it DOES have an impact when it's the same people involved.

Whether they WILL or not is something completely different and I highly doubt it - there is too much money involved.


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## Caledonia (4 April 2015)

It's certainly going to impact on Equestrianism in the Olympics. The IOC have for years tried to lose expensive horse sports, and here's their golden opportunity. 
It's no good letting it slide as 'Just Endurance' any more.

http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/2015/04/endurance-damaging-equestrianism-in-the-olympics/

I also have no doubt that the Endurance horses are road testing for the bigger stage, the TB racing. 

Sudden incredible spate of form from Godolphin recently, inc Prince Bishop. They have already lost several horses on the track this year. Flat racing, and early season - has to make you think, surely?


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## Echo Bravo (4 April 2015)

If it's happening abroad then it's happening here. What started off as a amateur sport here and suddenly went expert  because they looked towards the money. Money I think comes down to every woe in horse racing and now Endurance everything the Arabs touch, luckily National Hunt isn't on their radar so far (touch wood)


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## Westfield (6 April 2015)

Before we throw too meny stones lets just remember how many horses will die on British,Australian, European and US race tracks this year. Also what do we think hapens to all the 100s of TB foals born this spring that never evan make it to Youngstock sales let alone the 2 year old sales.

This is before we look at all of the other equine welfare problims in the UK thanks to poor private over breeding and bad managmant.

So let's get our own house in order first.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (6 April 2015)

Caledonia said:



			It's certainly going to impact on Equestrianism in the Olympics. The IOC have for years tried to lose expensive horse sports, and here's their golden opportunity. 
It's no good letting it slide as 'Just Endurance' any more.

http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/2015/04/endurance-damaging-equestrianism-in-the-olympics/

I also have no doubt that the Endurance horses are road testing for the bigger stage, the TB racing. 

Sudden incredible spate of form from Godolphin recently, inc Prince Bishop. They have already lost several horses on the track this year. Flat racing, and early season - has to make you think, surely?
		
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What are we to think , sorry, I am no Godolphin fan, but not sure what you are saying, if their horses are breaking down on track, it would suggest that their stallions are weak, so really they don't want this to be the message as breeding is a million $$$$$$$ business, not sure they want it to happen for the sake of winning a few £'s at Lingfield.
There is litle doubt in my mind that they have been using drugs and that includes steroids, this has been hapenning in UK yards too, but easier when you have your own yards and your own trainers, and most of your employees are part of your own family [tribal loyalty or poverty]
There have been other trainers, UK trainers who have used methods which were illegal, and as technology moves on they will be thinned out, but most of it comes down to ethics, cheating is really a mental aberration, there are those who do it regardless of the consequences when that are caught. The most arrogant and most successful tend to be those in a position to let their underlings take the punishment.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (6 April 2015)

Westfield said:



			Before we throw too meny stones lets just remember how many horses will die on British,Australian, European and US race tracks this year. Also what do we think hapens to all the 100s of TB foals born this spring that never evan make it to Youngstock sales let alone the 2 year old sales.

This is before we look at all of the other equine welfare problims in the UK thanks to poor private over breeding and bad managmant.

So let's get our own house in order first.
		
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Not sure how we are going to get our own house in order, it takes maybe five years to set up any sort of breeding program, and in those 5 years a lot happens to economics and to horseracing, it is not possible to have some sort of quota system relating TB coverings to worldwide demand for youngstock.
For some it is a sport for some it is a business.
The leisure rider benefits from input from the TB industry which could never be financed if there were not such huge sums of money involved. 
Horses can now be transported worldwide. In my early years they went by ship to America and elsewhere because air flights were expensive and hazardous to  horse health.
We have people on here who consider pts is OK, because they are heading for an unatural life and destined for the slaughterhouse aparently.
We don't look at cattle breeding in these terms, and yet they are all heading in one direction from birth.
Indiscriminate breeding of poor stock is difficult to stop, education may help, but some people are very pigheaded.


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## Caledonia (13 April 2015)

Bonkers2 said:



			What are we to think , sorry, I am no Godolphin fan, but not sure what you are saying, if their horses are breaking down on track, it would suggest that their stallions are weak, so really they don't want this to be the message as breeding is a million $$$$$$$ business, not sure they want it to happen for the sake of winning a few £'s at Lingfield.
There is litle doubt in my mind that they have been using drugs and that includes steroids, this has been hapenning in UK yards too, but easier when you have your own yards and your own trainers, and most of your employees are part of your own family [tribal loyalty or poverty]
There have been other trainers, UK trainers who have used methods which were illegal, and as technology moves on they will be thinned out, but most of it comes down to ethics, cheating is really a mental aberration, there are those who do it regardless of the consequences when that are caught. The most arrogant and most successful tend to be those in a position to let their underlings take the punishment.
		
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It's not breeding, it's the accepted use of drugs in training in Dubai as stated by the trainer in the BHA press release below. Of course, the Dubai horses aren't tested in Dubai. 

http://www.britishhorseracing.com/p...isciplinary-panel-hearing-mahmood-al-zarooni/

This article links drug abuse to musculoskeletal breakdown.

http://thomastobin.com/archive/370 ...ed racehorses In Kentucky.pdf?hc_location=ufi

Westfield - there is no comparison between what is happening in the UAE and what is happening in the UK.


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## Honeylight (13 April 2015)

If you have any old Timeform Annuals from the 1990s take a look at some of the horses and draw your own opinions.....


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 April 2015)

Honeylight said:



			If you have any old Timeform Annuals from the 1990s take a look at some of the horses and draw your own opinions.....
		
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I don't have any old Timeform annuals sry, its seems clear horses in the US are trained on almost anything, Lasix for example [to stop bleeders] is allowed in most races,  it is not a level playing field, and for this reason alone is not allowed in the UK.
If horses are run on Bute or other drugs in Dubai this will not be good for horse health [though of course we often give Bute to leisure horses] and it is fairly self evident that horses which are on bute will statistically have more breakdowns on the racecourse than those which are healthy, though no one is going to set up a trial to prove it. The horses which are fatally injured on track can be blood tested, I suppose, not sure if they all are.
Not sure about comparing times from years gone by as track surfaces will have changed significantly, even the distances may be open to challenge, and of course training methods should have increased pure speed and also stamina to some extent, otherwise people would not use modern, science based methods.


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