# Putting a horse down for dangerous behavior.



## EquestrianEllie01 (29 September 2015)

Hi guys,

In a bit of a state here. As some of you may know, I have been having trouble with Teddy, my 5 year old, for almost two years now.

Long story short, we have recently moved yards as our previous YO thought Teddy was dangerous and a liability. We have now had a few more incidents at the new yard, not even been there a week yet, and new YO has said he is a 'safety risk' and has given us a warning. So far he has not hurt himself or anyone around him seriously, but it is waiting to happen.

He has become increasingly aggressive, biting, kicking, pinning me against walls, running at me in the field. He also bolts away from me when I am leading him (this is our main issue) and will quite often bowl me over on his way. In short he has become dangerous. Unfortunately it has taken me nearly two years to come to terms with the fact that it may be safer (for him and people around him) to have him PTS.

It have taken us four years just to get him safe enough to have his feet done. We have Jim Goddard out frequently and he has been amazing, sadly he agrees that we should at least look into re-homing Teddy to a charity.

He has got both hind gut and stomach ulcers, so chances of him ever making a ridden horse are slim, considering he can barely tolerate a saddle any more. He is also displaying more riggish behavior every day, unfortunately we don't have the money to get him tested.

Just looking for a bit of reassurance really and also would like to know if we need any kind of proof from a vet or something before we can get him PTS?

We were going to get Harry Hawkins out, does he still do PTS?

I am also think it would be better to get him shot as he is only 5?

Thank you so very much for any advice, sorry if it doesn't make sense, I am absolutely beside myself.


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## SusieT (29 September 2015)

no need for proof unless youre trying to claim insurance (and you most likely wont be able to claim on insurance) sounds like he has been examined thoroughly if he's diagnosed with ulcers etc?
Doesn't matter shooting or injection - if he's difficult to inject shooting will be easier.
Assuming you've tried turfing him out to be a horse in a herd,  a length of time with a professional to see if he's just a pro horse - but if he's not rideable or handleable and has demonstrated this regularly for 2 years I think you have to wonderwhat else you can do
(ps- alhtough I'd not put much stock in anyone who suggests rehoming a difficult 5yr old ot a charity...)


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## oldie48 (29 September 2015)

I can't give you any advice but I'd like to offer my sympathy for what must be such a difficult decision. You know the horse best and if you feel you have come to the end of the road with him, then you must trust and believe in your own judgement.


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## gunnergundog (29 September 2015)

If you don't have the money to investigate and treat the issues (ulcers/riggish behaviour etc) and give him a quality of life/make him safe for those that handle him, then shoot him.  Hunt will do the deed professionally for you for c£150., depending on your area; don't need any proof.

You have my sympathy, but sometimes the hardest decisions are the best all round.


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## Pingu42 (29 September 2015)

EquestrianEllie01 said:



			Hi guys,

In a bit of a state here. As some of you may know, I have been having trouble with Teddy, my 5 year old, for almost two years now.

Long story short, we have recently moved yards as our previous YO thought Teddy was dangerous and a liability. We have now had a few more incidents at the new yard, not even been there a week yet, and new YO has said he is a 'safety risk' and has given us a warning. So far he has not hurt himself or anyone around him seriously, but it is waiting to happen.

He has become increasingly aggressive, biting, kicking, pinning me against walls, running at me in the field. He also bolts away from me when I am leading him (this is our main issue) and will quite often bowl me over on his way. In short he has become dangerous. Unfortunately it has taken me nearly two years to come to terms with the fact that it may be safer (for him and people around him) to have him PTS.

It have taken us four years just to get him safe enough to have his feet done. We have Jim Goddard out frequently and he has been amazing, sadly he agrees that we should at least look into re-homing Teddy to a charity.

He has got both hind gut and stomach ulcers, so chances of him ever making a ridden horse are slim, considering he can barely tolerate a saddle any more. He is also displaying more riggish behavior every day, unfortunately we don't have the money to get him tested.

Just looking for a bit of reassurance really and also would like to know if we need any kind of proof from a vet or something before we can get him PTS?

We were going to get Harry Hawkins out, does he still do PTS?

I am also think it would be better to get him shot as he is only 5?

Thank you so very much for any advice, sorry if it doesn't make sense, I am absolutely beside myself.
		
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Poor boy and poor you! Have you tried the Facebook group - horses with ulcers? I know than my own mare has been vile in the past but after treating her for ulcers and intolerance to clover (check out calm healthy horses website), she is now a reformed character! Also a Richard Maxwell pressure halter, allowed me to handle her safely! Have you considered turning him away 24/7 for the winter?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (29 September 2015)

Call Harry, you will just need to be able to pay before he comes or on the day on arrival.
Prob the most sensible thing to do,  from what you have said. 

Drop me a pm if yyou need help as you can't be far from me if you are using  HH


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## EquestrianEllie01 (29 September 2015)

Thank you all so very much for some really lovely posts. We have tried turning him away with a group of horses, unfortunately it made him worse.

I think I will be calling Harry Hawkins in the morning.

Thank you all again very much.


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## Makemineacob (29 September 2015)

EquestrianEllie01 said:



			Thank you all so very much for some really lovely posts. We have tried turning him away with a group of horses, unfortunately it made him worse.

I think I will be calling Harry Hawkins in the morning.

Thank you all again very much.
		
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God bless and thoughts are with you, a very sensible and responsible decision to PTS after what you have said.


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## Fools Motto (29 September 2015)

Makemineacob said:



			God bless and thoughts are with you, a very sensible and responsible decision to PTS after what you have said.
		
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I agree. Thinking of you, but it has to be the best decision for all concerned.


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## tashcat (29 September 2015)

So sorry to hear what you've been going through  

From what I have heard, for me, there is no doubt he should be put to sleep. You've done all you can for him, and passing him on to a charity or anything else would not be sensible.


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## poiuytrewq (29 September 2015)

Op, hugs you have my respect for making such a tough decision. You may well have saved yourself or someone else from serious injury.  
Hope your ok x


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## Wagtail (29 September 2015)

It is probably the ulcers that are causing his behaviour problems. Have they been treated?


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## Equi (29 September 2015)

What's been done about the ulcers? How did a horse so young get them?

Have you thought about getting someone else in to help...are you maybe just way out of your depth? Sounds like it is pure ignorance of you and he needs some bloomin manners put in him. He's only 5. I doubt he is beyond being saved.


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## Pingu42 (29 September 2015)

Wagtail said:



			It is probably the ulcers that are causing his behaviour problems. Have they been treated?
		
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I really believe that no horse is dangerous and that pain is causing the behaviour!


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## EquestrianEllie01 (29 September 2015)

Sorry, think this post is going to sound rude, I really don't mean it that way.

His ulcers are a long story, which I really don't feel like telling tonight. Yes they have been treated, they keep coming back. He is on a special feed and a supplement. I have no doubt that they do contribute to his behaviour, and he has improved on a diet.

As for the experience side of things, my Mum was a three star eventer, whom trained and produced young event horses, she also has experience with rigs. We have had many professionals out to him, including Gill Blake, Rosie Jones and Mary Chick.

I have had Teddy since he was 6 months old, I have given him the best chance I can. Unfortunately he is no longer manageable. I owe everything to him as he is what got me out of my wheel chair nearly five years ago, this has not been an easy decision.

Thank you all for your support, you have been brilliant. And sorry gunnerdog (not sure I got your username right), I haven't answered your PM, too tired will get back to you tomorrow, thank you very much for your lovely advice.


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## Meowy Catkin (29 September 2015)

EE01. I completely understand how dreadful stomach ulcers are for horses. My lovely TB died from colic due to a hemorrhaged ulcer, despite treatment and very good veterinary care. They can be very, very serious and also extremely painful. 

You don't need to justify yourself or tell the whole back story. It's clear that you have the horse's best interests at heart.


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## twiggy2 (29 September 2015)

OP he wont know he is being put to sleep and I honestly think more people are guilty of passing horses on than taking responsibility and preventing injury to anyone. A horse with behaviour such as you describe is not mentally in a good place-whatever the reason ending his days will prevent suffering for him and injury to others.
tough decision and good luck


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## Pinkvboots (29 September 2015)

What a horrible situation to be in and a very difficult decision to make but it sounds like you have done everything you can for him, it's heartbreaking I think you have been very brave I wish you well x


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## Peregrine Falcon (29 September 2015)

Brave decision and I wish you all the best.  It's never an easy one to make in a horse so young but why put them (and you) through more than necessary?  You sound very sensible and have obviously done what you can so I think you are totally justified.  End the day of the day it's your horse therefore your decision. X


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## Goldenstar (29 September 2015)

I have PTS two horses who had diffcult behaviours .
Op I believe you are doing the right thing the ulcers are probably being driven for something else .
One I PTS had worsening ulcers no matter what we did I am sure that horse had something else wrong we just never found out what it was .
The other had behavioural issues very infrequent but not safe for people .
It's a horrible place to be have a hug from me .


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## Illusion100 (29 September 2015)

I really feel for you OP. 

When behaviour gets to this stage it can be nigh impossible to change it's path. I for one am extremely more wary of a horse that displays dangerous behaviour in an offensive and aggressive manner. It has either been confirmed or strongly suspected to be a brain tumour/lesion/neuron issue ime of horses that behave like this and sadly, nothing could have been done to help them but give them a humane end. 

I'm not saying Teddy is necessarily inflicted in this way, just that I don't believe horses are aggressive animals as such unless there are significant and potentially very complicated issues going on.

I think you are doing the right thing by acknowledging that PTS would be a very kind and brave gesture for you to do for him. It's ok to have doubts and wonder if you are doing the right thing, I'm behind you as so many of us will be. Keep safe and we are all just a few clicks of the internet away if you need support.

Best wishes and kindest regards.


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## Abby-Lou (30 September 2015)

I would support you ll the way !  a brave and sensible decision at the end of the day deep down you know when its right - Big hugs


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## FFAQ (30 September 2015)

Oh no!  Poor you (and poor Teddy - re the ulcers I mean). 

Really feel for you at this difficult decision.  Whatever you decide, it's clear you have everyone's best interests (including the horse) at heart.  I think you're very brave.


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## el_Snowflakes (30 September 2015)

Really sad situation but the behaviour sounds like a symptom of his condition. If you think of it as letting him go due to the pain caused caused by his ulcers it may make it a bit easier for you.


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## hobo (30 September 2015)

Very sad for you but well done for being so responsible about his welfare. It sounds like you have done everything you could and more.


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## fatpiggy (30 September 2015)

Have a virtual hug from me too.  Its never easy to put down a young animal, especially since you have known him since he was just a baby, but it does sound like his life is horrible for him.  Passing on something that is clearly dangerous to a charity is absolutely not something to even consider - imagine how bad you would feel if you heard that he had seriously injured someone there and caused the charity considerable problems in the process?  I hope it all goes well for you and him. At least you will be certain that all his pain and problems are gone.


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## Identityincrisis (30 September 2015)

twiggy2 said:



			OP he wont know he is being put to sleep and I honestly think more people are guilty of passing horses on than taking responsibility and preventing injury to anyone. A horse with behaviour such as you describe is not mentally in a good place-whatever the reason ending his days will prevent suffering for him and injury to others.
tough decision and good luck
		
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Agree with this. 

He doesn't know death but he clearly does know pain. It must be a very difficult decision but you have to be responsible and not pass on a horse who is clearly very dangerous, you are doing the right thing x


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## EquestrianEllie01 (30 September 2015)

Thank you all so much for the comforting words. We have got Harry coming out at lunchtime. I may post some of the lovely pics I took of him this morning later. Thank you all again so much. x


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## DJ (30 September 2015)

You have my love and support too, I PTS my gorgeous lad last year for behavioral reasons too ... Hope everything goes as smoothly as it can for you x


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## Serianas (30 September 2015)

100% the right decision from my POV.  Good luck and be kind to youself in this difficult time. You are giving him relief from the hell he is going through


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## Equi (30 September 2015)

If the ulcers are an ongoing thing not likely to get better despite treatment and are causing the issues then yes you are being responsible. Hope everything is smooth.


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## limestonelil (30 September 2015)

What a hard decision you had to make after all the time and effort and emotion you must have gone through over the past four years. Hugs to you and remember to be kind to yourself at a difficult time.


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## ILuvCowparsely (30 September 2015)

sounds like your at the end of the road emotionally and physically,  you tried so long and so hard and shy of turning him out  wild in Arizona you cannot rehome him to anyone of fear they get injured or someone else.  Don't feel guilty at all you have done all you can, not knowing the history of ulcers as it is private, it seems Teddy has some emotional issues and behavioral  issues which us humans, can not understand.  It seems the kindest thing to relieve him of this pain/emotions is to pts.


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## Equine_Dream (30 September 2015)

You are absoloutly doing the right thing for him. It sounds like you have tried to do everything you can for him and he is such a lucky boy to have such a caring sensible owner. 
Dont think of it as putting him to sleep. Think of it as setting him free. No more pain for him. Only peace. 
Massive hugs for you OP. Be good to yourself during this time. We are all here if you need us xxx


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## JosieB (30 September 2015)

Thought of you today


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## EquestrianEllie01 (30 September 2015)

Thank you all so much. Am in a bit of a tiz so won't put much. 
He's gone, at 1 pm today. Am feeling awful as I feel so relieved that he's gone, please some tell me this is O.K. I loved him so much, he has left a huge hole.
Thank you all for your support x


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## Luci07 (30 September 2015)

It's only natural t feel relieved. He knows nothing now and you can move on.


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## crabbymare (30 September 2015)

normally relief is not that the horse has gone its the knowledge  that they are no longer in pain and  that the stress of knowing what needed to be done is over. be good to yourself


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## alibali (30 September 2015)

Of course its ok to feel relieved, it is the feeling you get when you have done something you know was right but you didn't want to do - you are relieved you found the strength to do it.

You will probably also be relieved to no longer have the constant worry of what if he hurts someone and finally perhaps relieved to no longer have the stress and worry of trying to find the answer to 'fix' him which perhaps could never be found. 

All these are very valid reasons to feel relief, they don't mean that you are happy that things turned out as they did. Be kind to yourself op it sounds like you need to cut yourself some slack


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## Amymay (30 September 2015)

Have been following this post.

Cyber hugs EE xx


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## Clare85 (30 September 2015)

Hope you are ok OP. IMO, you have made the most sensible and responsible decision for you and for Teddy. It must've been a terribly hard road to this point and a very difficult decision to make. You have my sympathy, I'm so sorry. Hugs xx


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## mungasmum (30 September 2015)

So sorry for your loss, sending virtual hugs x


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## twiggy2 (30 September 2015)

Have a huge HUG

I have felt relief when each of my animals have gone, the organising and build up is immense and especially when it is something that you have struggled with and can doubt.

We had no choice with my daughters mare but the relief was huge as it meant no more suffering for her or second guessing for us.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (30 September 2015)

EquestrianEllie01 said:



			Thank you all so much. Am in a bit of a tiz so won't put much. 
He's gone, at 1 pm today. Am feeling awful as I feel so relieved that he's gone, please some tell me this is O.K. I loved him so much, he has left a huge hole.
Thank you all for your support x
		
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You did what was right for you, him and your situation. 
Please don't have too many regrets as to what might have been, instead grab the release of the worry you have had. Well done for being so brave xx


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## Vodkagirly (30 September 2015)

Brave decision. Hope your Ok x


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## Dollysox (30 September 2015)

It is sometimes very hard to do the right thing. You have done it,  and it will feel rubbish for a while. That is only natural,  but try to remember that you did the best thing for him in the end. Massive hugs from me xxx


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## Peregrine Falcon (30 September 2015)

The build up and decision making is worse than the release from the suffering.  ((Huge hugs))


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## coen (1 October 2015)

As this horse is only 5yr old and has been with you since a 3yr old I would be inclined to turn him away for a good six months, get the vet to check him out, sort out his ulcers, let him be a horse for a while and then instead of bringing him back into your routine send him directly to a professional yard for a couple of months to be handled/re-started ect and see how he is following that.


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## Merrymoles (1 October 2015)

It is always the hardest decision. My thoughts are with you and no, it is not wrong to feel relief, you know he is not in pain now.


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## Micropony (1 October 2015)

You've done your best for him, and now you can do no more. He's at peace now and feels no more pain. The stress of looking after an animal when you desperately want to make it all better, but you can't, and the responsibility of making the final decision for them, is immense. To feel relieved when it's finally all over is very natural.
Thinking of you x


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## misskk88 (1 October 2015)

OP, I had my horse put to sleep last week. I can honestly say that whilst the pain is still very raw at the moment, I know long term I made the best decision for her and myself. In a way, whilst it hurts, I do feel relief at not having to worry, not having to toy with the decision, or to ask  myself 'when'. Had she displayed dangerous behaviour amongst the reasons, then I would have been even more confident in my decision.

Do not doubt yourself. You are being a very responsible, and unselfish owner by ensuring your horses future, and by also protecting yourself and others safety. 

Just to say, I had the vet. I did debate that hunt too, and in the end it came down to gut feeling and what I felt best for her. It was very quick and very peaceful and she had no idea what was happening. 

Thoughts are with you. x


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## fatpiggy (1 October 2015)

EquestrianEllie01 said:



			Thank you all so much. Am in a bit of a tiz so won't put much. 
He's gone, at 1 pm today. Am feeling awful as I feel so relieved that he's gone, please some tell me this is O.K. I loved him so much, he has left a huge hole.
Thank you all for your support x
		
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I felt relief too, I could see how much my old girl was deteriorating and life was becoming a burden to her.  Once it is done, there is nothing left to worry and stress about.  It wasn't until a week or so later that I also realised how much caring for her was physically taking out of me, and it was only the daily routine that kept me upright because frankly, I was exhausted.  It will be 3 years at the end of this month and the hole is still there but my time is filled by doing things that I had to give up in order to care for her.


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## xDundryx (1 October 2015)

I had an ex racehorse Pts for this reason. After a lot of money spent investigating with the vet, a farrier who was double-barrelled, friend who got badly bitten, 3 stays in hospital for me, inc fractured eye socket and the final being a dislocated shoulder and permanent nerve damage where de dragged me round the stable by my arm...the vet and myself agreed. When you were in the saddle he was a star, out of it he would switch from Jekyll to Hyde in a nano second with no warning. Once I was walking out of the field after poo picking and he came at me for no reason bit then tried to double barrel me, he ended up having a muzzle fitted to his headcollar . I eventually spoke to his old stable lass who said everyone had bite 'tattoos' from him including the trainer when the horse had grabbed him on the back of the neck. When it comes to you against 600kg of animal intent on doing damage a line has to be drawn. I got some stick however no way was I going to pass on a horse with those issues masked by sedative we think the couple of times I tried him and picked him up. Someone could get killed I was lucky it wasn't me. X


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## ladyt25 (1 October 2015)

EquestrianEllie01 said:



			Thank you all so much. Am in a bit of a tiz so won't put much. 
He's gone, at 1 pm today. Am feeling awful as I feel so relieved that he's gone, please some tell me this is O.K. I loved him so much, he has left a huge hole.
Thank you all for your support x
		
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So sorry to hear this as must be soo hard having had him for so long. However, as others said - horses are not dangerous/aggressive as there is always an underlying cause and your horse did not sound like he was happy or enjoying life and he was 'telling' you this in the only way he knew.

I have had my 'youngster' (now 6) since he was 15mths and, although not aggressive he reacted violently and unpredictably with a saddle a few months after we gently backed him. he was terrified of having a saddle on and despite people telling me he just needed to "get on with it" I knew there was something not right. Turned out he had damaged the ligaments in his spine 

Two years on after treatment and me sending him away to a professional I am slowly starting to ride him and get my confidence that he's no longer in pain. However, it could have ended differently. They can't tell us what is wrong so we can only do what is within our power.

It is not fair on the animal to be suffering either mentally or physically and in your case he was clearly just not a happy boy. So sorry but he is not suffering anymore and you don't have the worry about what he's going to do next.

I think you have been very brave as it's not an easy decision to make and I think it's even more difficult with a younger horse somehow.


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## cobgoblin (1 October 2015)

EquestrianEllie01 said:



			Thank you all so much. Am in a bit of a tiz so won't put much. 
He's gone, at 1 pm today. Am feeling awful as I feel so relieved that he's gone, 
please some tell me this is O.K. I loved him so much, he has left a huge hole.
Thank you all for your support x
		
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Feeling relieved shows how right your decision was. It's ok to feel this way and it's ok to feel awful too, because everyone feels awful whenever they have any animal pts, it's the flip side of animal ownership. You have behaved responsibly, let the relief flood through you.


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## ozpoz (1 October 2015)

cobgoblin said:



			Feeling relieved shows how right your decision was. It's ok to feel this way and it's ok to feel awful too, because everyone feels awful whenever they have any animal pts, it's the flip side of animal ownership. You have behaved responsibly, let the relief flood through you.
		
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 Absolutely this.  So sorry for all you have been through. x


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## EquestrianEllie01 (1 October 2015)

Thank you everyone. It's what Teddy wanted, he was ready. It must have been so miserable being so confused all the time and I should think he was in pain too. He was my little ray of sunshine and I'm glad I got the pleasure of knowing him and that I made the best decision when the time came.
Thank you all again so much x


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## AdorableAlice (1 October 2015)

EquestrianEllie01 said:



			Thank you everyone. It's what Teddy wanted, he was ready. It must have been so miserable being so confused all the time and I should think he was in pain too. He was my little ray of sunshine and I'm glad I got the pleasure of knowing him and that I made the best decision when the time came.
Thank you all again so much x
		
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Remember he was lucky to have you as an owner.  He had the best care throughout his life, his circumstances were beyond your or anyone else's control.


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## ILuvCowparsely (1 October 2015)

I know it is hard EE but remember you tried everything, and you would never have lived with yourself had you kept him and he really hurt himself beyond help or he had fatally or badly injured someone.  He is at piece now, his pain and discomfort is over, think of him in a good way it was not his fault it was a tragic twist in his life.  


 Keep thinking you did your best and take each day as it comes.    Ciber hugs coming your way


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## skybabe (19 August 2016)

I'm going through a similar situation with my 17.2hh mare. She is dangerous to turn out, some days be good and others without warning will bolt off even a chifney or bridle won't hold her and some days we just have to leave her grazing with the bridle on as she won't be caught.

she is lame at the moment and has kissing spine, and over the 5 years I have had her, she has been lame a lot with investigations of MRI, ultra sound, x ray, nerve blocks etc, no diagnosis. 

she has been turned away and now is very difficult to catch to bring in.

so now I'm making the decision if PTS is the kindest option to put this made at peace. its bloody difficult but I don't see I have any other option xx

I hope you managed to sort your boy & you are OK xxx


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## Irish gal (19 August 2016)

Sky babe I think you will be doing the right thing for her, like the OP here. Unfortunately, this gut wrenching part of having a horse is not something any of us envision, yet it's part of our responsibility to them. 

It sounds like you've really tried your best. Not easy, I know, but perhaps you'll feel also feel relieved when it's done.


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## Adopter (19 August 2016)

Skybabe,  so sorry to read about your mare and her ongoing problems, it takes courage to make the call to end the pain, but it is the kindest option for your horse.  Sadly sometimes there is no answer as to why the problem continues, but the behaviour is not that of a happy horse so sending hugs at this difficult time.


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## LadySam (19 August 2016)

cobgoblin said:



			Feeling relieved shows how right your decision was. It's ok to feel this way and it's ok to feel awful too, because everyone feels awful whenever they have any animal pts, it's the flip side of animal ownership. You have behaved responsibly, let the relief flood through you.
		
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This is exactly what I came to say.  The right thing often isn't the easiest thing.

I had a very similar experience to xDundryx.  You do have to draw a line somewhere for everybody's sake, including the horse.  Horses that can't be helped do happen, and you did everything you could for a long time.  Big internet hugs to you.


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## Mollylittle (19 August 2016)

is she safe out in the field and happy with other horses? Than maybe there would be an option to rehome her as a companionhorse only?


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## Ruftysdad (19 August 2016)

Molly Little, the OP has already said that this has been tried and that he was just as bad


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## Mollylittle (19 August 2016)

Ruftysdad said:



			Molly Little, the OP has already said that this has been tried and that he was just as bad
		
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I didn't understand it like that-my understanding was that mare will take off hot while being brought to the turn out. My question was is she dangerous while she is in the field?


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## Frumpoon (19 August 2016)

Brave, responsible, strong and selfless!!!

Anybody gives you stick send them my way xxxxxx


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## YorksG (19 August 2016)

Mollylittle said:



			is she safe out in the field and happy with other horses? Than maybe there would be an option to rehome her as a companionhorse only?
		
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Companion horses also need catching in, for farrier, vet, ground conditions etc. There is a serious glut of horses in the UK as it is, PTS is absolutely the right thing in this case, have you read about the mares health problems? Companion animal homes are something of a myth as far as I can see.


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## Mollylittle (19 August 2016)

YorksG said:



			Companion horses also need catching in, for farrier, vet, ground conditions etc. There is a serious glut of horses in the UK as it is, PTS is absolutely the right thing in this case, have you read about the mares health problems? Companion animal homes are something of a myth as far as I can see.
		
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Look, I have a reason for asking. i currently care for 8 horses. 2 were surrendered to a rescue close to me for being dangerous. 2 chestnut mares. The rescue asked if I could try and help. Now I have a policy of letting a horse be a horse. I also have 6 very calm and collected horses. Within about 6 months their behavior had rubbed off on the dangerous horses to a level that they now can be safely approached and handled.Riding them will never be possible-but we knew that form the start. They are now fit to be re homed as a perfect companion horse. Thats why i'm asking.Horses learn by imitating.I have no issues if OP want to euthanize her horse, that is her decision.But I can ask yes? Re companion homes being a myth? eh...nnly 2 out of my 6 can be ridden.The rest are companions.


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## YorksG (19 August 2016)

Mollylittle said:



			Look, I have a reason for asking. i currently care for 8 horses. 2 were surrendered to a rescue close to me for being dangerous. 2 chestnut mares. The rescue asked if I could try and help. Now I have a policy of letting a horse be a horse. I also have 6 very calm and collected horses. Within about 6 months their behavior had rubbed off on the dangerous horses to a level that they now can be safely approached and handled.Riding them will never be possible-but we knew that form the start. They are now fit to be re homed as a perfect companion horse. Thats why i'm asking.Horses learn by imitating.I have no issues if OP want to euthanize her horse, that is her decision.But I can ask yes? Re companion homes being a myth? eh...nnly 2 out of my 6 can be ridden.The rest are companions.
		
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Have you found homes for them, are they lame and have health issues? You may have four who are fit to be companions, but at the moment they are companions to each other! We too allow our horses to be horses together, but any retired remain with us, we do not send them out to be "companions". Please look at the adverts for horses on any of the sites, as I said, a glut of horses.


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## Mollylittle (19 August 2016)

I've re homed a few in the past, but those 6 will always stay with me for reasons of personal attachments and they are a tight little community. Of course there are health issues, otherwise they wouldn't be un-ridable wouldn't they? I have a home check pending for outcome for one of the girls.I am not sure why you would want me to look at horses for sale. I haven't bought a horse in my life nor will I ever.


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## Frumpoon (19 August 2016)

Mollylittle said:



			Look, I have a reason for asking. i currently care for 8 horses. 2 were surrendered to a rescue close to me for being dangerous. 2 chestnut mares. The rescue asked if I could try and help. Now I have a policy of letting a horse be a horse. I also have 6 very calm and collected horses. Within about 6 months their behavior had rubbed off on the dangerous horses to a level that they now can be safely approached and handled.Riding them will never be possible-but we knew that form the start. They are now fit to be re homed as a perfect companion horse. Thats why i'm asking.Horses learn by imitating.I have no issues if OP want to euthanize her horse, that is her decision.But I can ask yes? Re companion homes being a myth? eh...nnly 2 out of my 6 can be ridden.The rest are companions.
		
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But who are they companions to? In 35 years of horses I have literally never known of anybody needing an unridden companion horse yet see hundreds of people every day try and rehouse lame, unpredictable, or poorly creatures to their 'forever' homes

Maybe it's because land is at a premium around here and it's not traditional horse country


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## Clodagh (19 August 2016)

I always have a companion horse or pony.


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## Mollylittle (19 August 2016)

Frumpoon said:



			But who are they companions to? In 35 years of horses I have literally never known of anybody needing an unridden companion horse yet see hundreds of people every day try and rehouse lame, unpredictable, or poorly creatures to their 'forever' homes

Maybe it's because land is at a premium around here and it's not traditional horse country
		
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You might be right with the Land. I re home to Germany and in one case to the Netherlands.IN all cases the new homes had one horse which was fine to ride for the family and didn't want to splash out on a second horse just for company.Those people adopted.


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## YorksG (19 August 2016)

Mollylittle said:



			I've re homed a few in the past, but those 6 will always stay with me for reasons of personal attachments and they are a tight little community. Of course there are health issues, otherwise they wouldn't be un-ridable wouldn't they? I have a home check pending for outcome for one of the girls.I am not sure why you would want me to look at horses for sale. I haven't bought a horse in my life nor will I ever.
		
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The  reason I suggested that you look at the horse sales sites, is that then you will be more aware of the number of horses for sale, including those who are being offered as companions.


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## Mollylittle (19 August 2016)

oh....what makes you think i am not aware...and why would you think that would change my stance?


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## EQUIDAE (19 August 2016)

Mollylittle said:



			is she safe out in the field and happy with other horses? Than maybe there would be an option to rehome her as a companionhorse only?
		
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Noone wants a 17h2, horse that is dangerous to handle as a companion.


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## Mollylittle (19 August 2016)

EQUIDAE said:



			Noone wants a 17h2, horse that is dangerous to handle as a companion.
		
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so you know what 100 million people want? >just saying<.I just don't agree with generalization.
Honestly, if the gal was in my own country,i'd give her a go. What OP describes here is actually less dangerous behavior than one of the 2 chestnut girls displayed.


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## skybabe (19 August 2016)

yes that's the issue I've got. she is not easy to turn out, bolts away and she is not easy to catch either. she has almost turned into a wild horse, and will gallop around for hours rather than be caught. so this is why retirement or companion horse isn't ideal, she will only be caught when she is in a good mood and I feel I can't care for her properly. I'd love to go down, get her in, groom her, pamper her then put her back out, but can't :-(


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## Mollylittle (19 August 2016)

skybabe said:



			yes that's the issue I've got. she is not easy to turn out, bolts away and she is not easy to catch either. she has almost turned into a wild horse, and will gallop around for hours rather than be caught. so this is why retirement or companion horse isn't ideal, she will only be caught when she is in a good mood and I feel I can't care for her properly. I'd love to go down, get her in, groom her, pamper her then put her back out, but can't :-(
		
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I see. So she would probably be happy in a herd of horses being free. My lot comes and goes as they please.My land is connected with an open lane to my stables which are behind the house.If they want to come up,they come up.If they don't,they don't.They can be relied on to come up strictly on time in the winter for feeding.I might have an idea.I will pm you.


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## EquestrianEllie01 (19 August 2016)

Gosh, had completely forgotten how lovely and supportive you all were through that very hard time. Thank you all so much again. It's hard to believe that it's been nearly a year, still feels like yesterday.
Skybabe, I have PMed you and hope you find my advice at least slightly helpful. As you know, you have my utmost sympathy and I am sending you best wishes I can.
Mollylittle, I'm afraid I agree with YorksG, there are so many horses out there that need homes that it really is an unknown for a horse like skybabe has.


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## EQUIDAE (19 August 2016)

Mollylittle said:



			I see. So she would probably be happy in a herd of horses being free. My lot comes and goes as they please.My land is connected with an open lane to my stables which are behind the house.If they want to come up,they come up.If they don't,they don't.They can be relied on to come up strictly on time in the winter for feeding.I might have an idea.I will pm you.
		
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Stop guilt tripping the poor girl - shame on you!


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## ljohnsonsj (19 August 2016)

All my sympathy but totally the right decision. They're many fates worse than death, especially for a horse like this. x


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## conniegirl (19 August 2016)

Mollylittle said:



			I see. So she would probably be happy in a herd of horses being free. My lot comes and goes as they please.My land is connected with an open lane to my stables which are behind the house.If they want to come up,they come up.If they don't,they don't.They can be relied on to come up strictly on time in the winter for feeding.I might have an idea.I will pm you.
		
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What a horrid person you are, trying to guilt trip this poor person.
A 17.2hh that is dangerous to handle and cannot be caught is not suitable for a companion and infact in the UK no one will want a 17.2hh horse as a companion anyway. There are litteraly thousands of horses advertised as companions only, or in rescue centres advertised as idea companions and cant be ridden. There is a reason that the rescue centres are over flowing with them.

How exactly would you handle said dangerous horse if it needed urgent vet treatment? when it is highly stressed already and in full flight mode?
It is hard enough handling a well mannered, well handled horse who is highly stressed and injured let alone something that is dangerous to begin with!

Please feel free to take a trip to some of the low level auctions like York, Beeston and Derby to see what a horrid future awaits those poor horses that are sold as companions. Often neglected, starved or drugged up to the eyeballs to be sold on for a small profit and then they end up hurting someone or in the wrong hands

I also don't see you offering this horse a home?


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## applecart14 (19 August 2016)

Interesting but sad thread.


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## Red-1 (19 August 2016)

applecart14 said:



			I have read all the myriad of replies about this horse but I take it he has had everything investigating and treated?  

I know someone who wanted a six year old pts because they couldn't be bothered to rehabilitate him as the daughter was into her new puppy and didn't want to be bothered with a horse that she was frightened of or couldn't ride whilst it was rehabbed.  They were running out of money also.

The appointment was booked the vet came out to PTS and he asked for a weeks extension so a suitable home could be found.  He felt it was a shame to let go of a young horse without trying to solve the problem or find an alternative home for it. Owner was adamant (through ignorance) that her horse was not going to a blood bank 'to be experimented on'  and there was little choice.  Thank goodness for the vet.  New owners were found, the owners didn't give a toss when the horse went, just literally saying good riddance, it was heartbreaking to us fellow liveries who thought a lot of the horse and we were digusted with the woman and her daughters attitude.Horse ended up going to the home for about three months, but did subsequently die from colic which was sad but at least it had a chance.  I know a blood bank would probably not be suitable in your horses case because if he cannot be shod without huge problems then I a am guessing he wouldn't tolerate needles.

I think you owe it to him to try and solve the gastric ulcer problem first, even if you just tame it to an extent with cheap treatment like slippery elm or other supplements on the market without necessarily treating it with expensive veterinary intervention.
		
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I am sorry as I rarely contribute to your threads Applecart, as they seem to end with you crying "bullies" but this time I think you could re read your post in this thread. You say you have read the "myriad of replies" about the horse, but maybe have missed that the horse was PTS almost a year ago? If you did not miss that, then telling the owner that she "owes it to the horse" to sort out the ulcers, along with a story about people who "could not be bothered to rehabilitate" is utterly cruel.

IMO it is bad enough to argue and guilt trip before the horse has been PTS, but to do the same after the event is awful.

I do hope that it is a mistake, and that you have not in fact read the thread, as you say you have.

The current horse has not been diagnosed as having ulcers as far as this thread is concerned.

For what its worth, I think both OP and Skybabe are doing the correct and responsible thing for their horse.

I wish you well, both of you, and hope your horses have peace.


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## EquestrianEllie01 (19 August 2016)

Red-1 said:



			I am sorry as I rarely contribute to your threads Applecart, as they seem to end with you crying "bullies" but this time I think you could re read your post in this thread. You say you have read the "myriad of replies" about the horse, but maybe have missed that the horse was PTS almost a year ago? If you did not miss that, then telling the owner that she "owes it to the horse" to sort out the ulcers, along with a story about people who "could not be bothered to rehabilitate" is utterly cruel.

IMO it is bad enough to argue and guilt trip before the horse has been PTS, but to do the same after the event is awful.

I do hope that it is a mistake, and that you have not in fact read the thread, as you say you have.

The current horse has not been diagnosed as having ulcers as far as this thread is concerned.

For what its worth, I think both OP and Skybabe are doing the correct and responsible thing for their horse.

I wish you well, both of you, and hope your horses have peace.
		
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Thank you Red-1 x


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## Damnation (19 August 2016)

Mollylittle said:



			I see. So she would probably be happy in a herd of horses being free. My lot comes and goes as they please.My land is connected with an open lane to my stables which are behind the house.If they want to come up,they come up.If they don't,they don't.They can be relied on to come up strictly on time in the winter for feeding.I might have an idea.I will pm you.
		
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I'm sorry Mollylitte, I don't know what has annoyed you but Babe is facing a hard decision and quite frankly, I don't think you are helping. If a horse is dangerous then I am sorry but human life comes first.

In Skybabe's shoes I would PTS to prevent anyone getting injured in future, whether or not they have the dream set up, my own conscience would not hold that.

Quality not quantity - Babe's horse has had a hard life of being poked, prodded, lameness issues and back problems. This behaviour could be pain related and alot of vetenary intervention and I am sure time, money and emotion has gone into this hose and it hasn't been able to sort these issues. What makes you think that being out in a field, unable to catch the horse to even trim her feet or treat her medical issues without risk of being hurt is a good idea to anyone?

Your guilt tripping is insensative, uncalled for and rude. You appear to be under some misguided conception that any life is better than no life.

Babe - Ignore Mollylittle's emotional blackmail and insensative comments. You know your horse and sometimes despite what other people say you have to make that call. *Huge hugs*

P.s I PTS my mare 6 years ago due to unfixable medical issues and the behavioural problems that came with the issue. Quality over quantity.


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## Red-1 (19 August 2016)

EquestrianEllie01 said:



			Thank you Red-1 x
		
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You are welcome. I see Applecart has not edited her post. Glad she has seen the error of her ways, even if there is no apology, ad I hope it was a simple error. 

I do think this is one of the hardest 'costs' of having our horses, and I am amazed when someone criticises someone making the brave decision to do the right thing. 

I would take mollylittle a little more seriously if she were to actually offer a home for Babe's horse, easy to be an armchair critic.


ETA - not that I would take mollylittle up on it, as I think you re doing the tight thing.


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## Neversaydie (19 August 2016)

Such a shame for all involved, it is a hard decision to make. Hope you are ok op.


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## EquestrianEllie01 (19 August 2016)

Red-1 said:



			You are welcome. I see Applecart has not edited her post. Glad she has seen the error of her ways, even if there is no apology, ad I hope it was a simple error. 

I do think this is one of the hardest 'costs' of having our horses, and I am amazed when someone criticises someone making the brave decision to do the right thing. 

I would take mollylittle a little more seriously if she were to actually offer a home for Babe's horse, easy to be an armchair critic.


ETA - not that I would take mollylittle up on it, as I think you re doing the tight thing.
		
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I would like to believe that it was and that no malice was intended.

The way I saw it was that there were far worse fates awaiting my lad than to go out with a big hug and a bucket full of his favourite foods. There are so many great horses out there that are of both sound mind and body, why would anyone else, not that I did not love and cherish Teddy dearly, want that horse. And if they do, you have to question their intentions. I loved Teddy with all my heart, as I am sure skybabe does her mare, but skybabe's horse is 17.2 and Teddy was 16.2, who really would want a horse like that as a companion? I owe Teddy everything and he meant (and still means) more to me than anything else in the world, and that is why I made that decision, I think any other decision would have been selfish on my part.

Could not agree more with that last statement, it is so easy to criticise someone else from the comfort of your home and to not give regards to that persons feelings.

I know I did the right thing and I am sure skybabe will make the right decision by her mare when the time comes. x


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## EquestrianEllie01 (19 August 2016)

Neversaydie said:



			Such a shame for all involved, it is a hard decision to make. Hope you are ok op.
		
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Thank you, I am getting there. x


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## maisie06 (19 August 2016)

EquestrianEllie01 said:



			Hi guys,

In a bit of a state here. As some of you may know, I have been having trouble with Teddy, my 5 year old, for almost two years now.

Long story short, we have recently moved yards as our previous YO thought Teddy was dangerous and a liability. We have now had a few more incidents at the new yard, not even been there a week yet, and new YO has said he is a 'safety risk' and has given us a warning. So far he has not hurt himself or anyone around him seriously, but it is waiting to happen.

He has become increasingly aggressive, biting, kicking, pinning me against walls, running at me in the field. He also bolts away from me when I am leading him (this is our main issue) and will quite often bowl me over on his way. In short he has become dangerous. Unfortunately it has taken me nearly two years to come to terms with the fact that it may be safer (for him and people around him) to have him PTS.

It have taken us four years just to get him safe enough to have his feet done. We have Jim Goddard out frequently and he has been amazing, sadly he agrees that we should at least look into re-homing Teddy to a charity.

He has got both hind gut and stomach ulcers, so chances of him ever making a ridden horse are slim, considering he can barely tolerate a saddle any more. He is also displaying more riggish behavior every day, unfortunately we don't have the money to get him tested.

Just looking for a bit of reassurance really and also would like to know if we need any kind of proof from a vet or something before we can get him PTS?

We were going to get Harry Hawkins out, does he still do PTS?

I am also think it would be better to get him shot as he is only 5?

Thank you so very much for any advice, sorry if it doesn't make sense, I am absolutely beside myself.
		
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Harry still does the deed....He did mine last year, the guy he sent was professional, calm and a real horseman, I wouldn't have a vet do it now.  No proof from a vet required - I just rang and arranged "dispatch and disposal" and paid CC over the phone so all was done before the day.

I think you are doing the right thing by going down the PTS route, dumping him on a charity is not the answer and I'm sure deep down that you already know this.


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## Shantara (19 August 2016)

I'm so so sorry EE 
That must be the worst feeling. It's at times like these when you wish you could ask what's wrong and how to fix it  I think you did 100% the right thing. 
I used to be so against PTS for dangerous or problem horses, but having read up on the subject and seen a couple of dangerous horses first hand, I have to say my mind has been changed. I read some of this thread this morning and I've had you in my thoughts all day. 

I really hope things get a little easier with time *hugs*


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