# Has anyone's horse had a Neurectomy - de-nerving of the hoof - due to lameness



## Izzwizz (23 April 2010)

As per title, not getting much response in NL so am trying here.  As per title, would be interested to hear any stories - good or bad.  Thanking anyone in advance.


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## kez1001 (23 April 2010)

Hi they suggested doing this to my horse but it is only a temporary solution. The idea is that they cut the nerve that sends the pain signal so the horse is no longer in discomfort and therefore sound. HOWEVER they can never be jumped again and it is not without side effects that vets do not always detail. It was often used as a solution for show  horses who were championship bound but were becoming progressively sorer but had a particular competition to complete before the end of their career. Hope that helps


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## brucea (23 April 2010)

I know a horse who's had it. 

Pity, becuase the owner has heard about some natural approaches that might have worked, bit it's too late now. 

In that case they cut the nerves because they thought it might be ddft lesions - but weren't actually sure. Treatment without diagnosis...always makes me uncomfortable.


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## Daisychain (23 April 2010)

God no, i would never even consider it.  Its a very short term solution.

Far better give the horse time, rest and whip his shoes off, get good trimming and let nature do its magic.


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## misst (23 April 2010)

It was suggested as a possiblitlity for my daughters horse but we felt uncomfortable with it. As I understand it, it is a sometimes temporary solution but for us was not a comfortable choice. I can sympathise if your horse is extremely valuable, but, at the end of the day they do not choose to be competitive and we felt that we were making choices for him that only reflected our needs, not his. He is a sound happy field ornament without any ops or medication. He is not, however, sound to ride.  My other concern was that my daughter would be competing a horse who could not feel his whole foot and this was a safety concern for me.


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## Box_Of_Frogs (24 April 2010)

This was mentioned by my old vets - though only in a technical discussion covering absolutely every option available - when my horse was diagnosed with severe djd and navicular syndrome. I wouldn't consider it even for a second. I know it's not quite the same but if you had severe toothache or a broken arm, would you seriously consider having the nerves to your tooth or arm severed instead of treating the cause of the toothache or repairing the broken arm?


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## trumdella (24 April 2010)

I personally wouldn't ever consider this!

I have seen a horse that had it done... and it ended up with a foot abscess that underrun the sole.. in the end it had to be put down because of this.. by the time we got it for treatment.. it was too late! Its unfortunate to say that the owner was neglectful and nieve about the matter!

Its so hard when they can't feel their foot... what if they tread on a nail or have a foot abscess. you have to be so vigilant with them!!! 

I think this procedure focuses on human needs rather than the horses'. If it is so lame that it can't be turned out into a paddock and live reasonably comfortably on meds... then I don't think its fair to keep it alive! - if it was something that was going to fix with time then i would give it time not cut nerves to alleviate pain!


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## Murphy88 (24 April 2010)

I've seen the op done twice, both times as a temporary/palliative measure. One was a horse who had been 9/10 lame with a septic joint for 6 weeks - owner and original vet chose to ignore it, so by the time referral vets saw it the joint was completely f***** and it was either do a neurectomy or PTS.

The 2nd was a broodmare with chronic lameness, and it was done so they could get another foal out of her before PTS. Not sure if I really agree with the ethics of that one, but even being led out of the recovery box the horses were improved and in less pain which can only be a good thing.

As others have said, they take careful observation as you can't rely on the horse to tell you when it has trodden on a nail etc. I'm not sure I'd consider it for one of mine, but I can see the reasoning of some owners for allowing a horse another year/18m of pain-free life. The horse will need to nerve block MUCH improved before vets will usually consider it - if the lameness doesn't block out with lower nerve blocks, there is no point doing a neurectomy. There is also often aberrant nerves in the region (both of the ops I saw had aberrant nerves) which means a vet has to make sure to get all of them out as missing just one tiny nerve will mean the neurectomy doesn't work.


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## reindeerlover (24 April 2010)

I had it done to my horse, it worked partially and 4 years later I am considering having it done again. I did have moral questions about it I must say but then I remembered that horses have no use for morals and my big question was what was best for my horse?

I could (a) give him bute every day and damage his GIT and liver, (b) never ride him again and have a massively expensive and fairly sore field ornament that I still have to pay for worming/vacc/feed/haylage/livery/vet bills/insurance etc, (c) put him down and buy a new one OR (d) have a bilateral neurectomy and ride him as I usually do. 

I decided to have him denerved as I could still ride him- I can still jump him as the neurectomy still allows feeling in the toe of the foot and frankly, the horse is not going to forget where his feet are going just because he can't feel some of it. In the old days (not good but I'm making a point!) all showjumpers were denerved as a matter of course and very few would fall on their heads.

I always check his feet regularly and would like to think that I would notice if he had a nail in his foot, abscesses usually burst out of the hoof if left anyway and a fractured pedal bone isn't really an issue as the horse can't feel it anyway and early recognition doesn't change the prognosis. 

I doubt your vet would have recommended it if there were many other options so don't let morals cloud your judgement- I'd prefer to not be able to feel my foot rather than live in pain- wouldn't you?


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## Marchtime (24 April 2010)

Farrierlover said:



			I doubt your vet would have recommended it if there were many other options so don't let morals cloud your judgement- I'd prefer to not be able to feel my foot rather than live in pain- wouldn't you?
		
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I'm afraid I completely disagree having been offered it and refused. You have other options - you could pts if your horse was in pain or you could retire the horse if comfortable (the option I took). Unfortunately I'm of the belief that those who put their horse through this op tend to do it for selfish reasons e.g. they want a horse to ride rather than a field ornament or they don't feel able to do the responsible thing and call it a day. It's not something I'd ever feel comfortable even considering.


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## Izzwizz (24 April 2010)

Oooh lots of different opinions here.  Im surprised to hear the bad stories rather than the good as someone has had their pony done on our yard due to navicular and she says its the best thing she ever did.  Vet is not pushing it atall at this stage for my horse.  She had a tear in her DDFT right within her hoof, shes had 2 MRIs and vet would do another one before any decision was made about a neurectomy to make sure that nothing else has occurred.  She was sound on nerve blocks by the way.  She is very special to me and its not about competing atall, its what makes her comfortable.  She is more than special actually as my previous horse died in the field from a broken leg so Izzy is worth the time and effort.  I dont want to breed from her and she does have the ultimate option of going to Wales to have total timeout with my friend who will be moving there.  I want to get it clear in my mind what will happen if she goes lame again after this second injection into her navicular bursa where there is some inflammation. (or there was back in January when she had her MRI)  Im hoping that the 2nd injection works and we dont have to go down the route of an op.  Vet is coming out early May to see her and if still sound as she is now, she will be turned out.  The rest is up to her then really.  Shes a superstar and at 15 owes me nothing atall.  I only have here best interests at heart and she certainly wont be PTS unless that was the very end of the road.  I do have another horse anyway so riding isnt the be all and end all with her atall.

Thankyou all for your replies, very helpful.


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## almorton (24 April 2010)

i had my horse operated on at 14 years old. she showed early stage changes on her xrays and was stopping out SJ, very uncharacteristic. she was also pointing her front feet. 
she had a bilateral neurectomy. 
although she still doesnt jump (she owes me nothing after a very stressful SJ career!!) she just lives here and is paddock sound. she has had 2 lovely foals. and before anyone starts, it WASNT her conformation that predisposed her to navic, she is 15hands and jumped opens for years! she loved all of it, still goes mad when the wagon goes without her 5 years later and i dont regret any of it for a minute.
i look at it this way. i have arthritis in my hands. i take painkillers. if someone offered me a neurectomy, id gladly give it a go! i dont want putting down. i lead a fully functional life and compete most weekends and muck out 12 a day. im sure my mare would gladly take ibuprofen if she could still go to our local centre and have a ball round the 1.25 at the weekend! 
its all about quality of life. sadly she isnt sound enough to jump still, even after the op. obviously, if she was, id go all out shoeing, meds etc to give her the best treatment possible so she could go back to the job she loves. 
she was never, and will never, be a happy hacker. we would both die! 
the modern day miracles of science are amazing, and id seriously give your horse every chance possible. 
saying that, when they tell you enough is enough, listen!


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## almorton (25 April 2010)

ha! that should say successful not stressful SJ career!!
Can we not edit anymore or am i being blind. 

edited to add, ive now found the edit button! ! maybe i do need putting down.....!


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## Barefoot4 (25 April 2010)

The thought of this horrifies me, but in fairness I have not ever seen it in horses, only humans.  However, being involved in human muscular and skeletal work, if nerves 'die', the involved joint undergoes premature and excessive traumatic degenerative changes that will lead to eventual destruction and instability.  

To summarise, the pathogenetic sequence of events in neurotrophic joint disease (in humans) is:
- altered neurological status due to lack of sensation/proprioception
- leads to inappropriate relaxation of the supporting joint structure (the muscles/ligaments)
- leads to misalignment of the joint (and pain, but if the nerves are dead, how will the horse feel this?)
- leads to progressive joint destruction/cartilage disruption/bone fragmentation
- leads to final disorganisation of the joint

Not wishing to alarm, but surely if the nerves are deadened, and the horse therefore has no feeling, how can we as their keepers check for pain or heat for any other injury that may occur over the years?  We simply wouldn't be able to locate a problem which in all likelihood, could be an injury wed only find out about when the joint/bone had finally collapsed.  Which by then is too late.  

If this route is being suggested/recommended due to soft tissue injury, i.e. DDFT, this will heal given time and the right treatment.  Take the shoes off, get a healthy blood circulation going back into the hoof (which will happen immediately once the horse is allowed to use his frog again), provide correct hoofcare, and after time the horse will be sound again.


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## TarrSteps (25 April 2010)

I have seen quite a few horses that have been denerved, usually as a "last ditch" attempt to relieve intractable pain.  While I agree there are moral issues and medical concerns, I do think that most horses in this situation are sufficiently uncomfortable that simply "retiring" them and assuming they will be pain free if they're not ridden is perhaps not completely realistic.  Again, people have to make the decision that suits their situation but I've seen many horses turned out that were definitely NOT sound, the only difference was that people didn't have to look at them every day. 

The horses that I've known have also received a high standard of care afterwards, including careful shoeing and great attention paid to workload, footing etc.  Most worked only on surface (admittedly easier to do in North America) and well below their previous level.  Most went for years after and I only know one that was done again, although his first op wasn't that successful so I suspect he wasn't a good candidate to begin with.  I'm also pretty sure all the stories about competition horses being done "undercover" (it's specifically against the rules to show a horse with such a condition in many spheres and they can be tested) can't all be false rumours.  (In at least one case I know of a horse that was done and then sold on, I'm pretty sure without full disclosure.  Or the buyers simply pretended not to know.  ) So there are likely horses out competing successfully, perhaps for years, without any noticeable concerns.  Which is not to say it's a good idea, but it could well be that, as in so many cases, the bad situations get a lot more press than the good ones.


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## Izzwizz (1 May 2010)

Thanks again everyone.  Vet is coming out on Wednesday next week and turnout looks promising.  Just hope she stays sound and then we wont have to go down any other road atall.  Heres hoping!!


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## ElvisandTilly (1 May 2010)

Flin and I have got everything crossed for Izzy and you next Wednesday!! Good luck


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## Jo-lly (5 November 2019)

Izzwizz said:



			Oooh lots of different opinions here.  Im surprised to hear the bad stories rather than the good as someone has had their pony done on our yard due to navicular and she says its the best thing she ever did.  Vet is not pushing it atall at this stage for my horse.  She had a tear in her DDFT right within her hoof, shes had 2 MRIs and vet would do another one before any decision was made about a neurectomy to make sure that nothing else has occurred.  She was sound on nerve blocks by the way.  She is very special to me and its not about competing atall, its what makes her comfortable.  She is more than special actually as my previous horse died in the field from a broken leg so Izzy is worth the time and effort.  I dont want to breed from her and she does have the ultimate option of going to Wales to have total timeout with my friend who will be moving there.  I want to get it clear in my mind what will happen if she goes lame again after this second injection into her navicular bursa where there is some inflammation. (or there was back in January when she had her MRI)  Im hoping that the 2nd injection works and we dont have to go down the route of an op.  Vet is coming out early May to see her and if still sound as she is now, she will be turned out.  The rest is up to her then really.  Shes a superstar and at 15 owes me nothing atall.  I only have here best interests at heart and she certainly wont be PTS unless that was the very end of the road.  I do have another horse anyway so riding isnt the be all and end all with her atall.

Thankyou all for your replies, very helpful.
		
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I realize this is a very old thread, but our horse has what sounds like something very similar. I just wondered what the outcome was of everything. Thanks


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