# Found a cat



## chaps89 (24 July 2020)

Or more accurately, a cat has found us.
Very very friendly, in good condition but super itchy so suspecting fleas.
Popped him to the local vets and he's a neutered male and has no microchip.
I've left our number with them and the other local vet and OH has posted on FB.



Nb- he let himself in through an open window!


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## HufflyPuffly (24 July 2020)

Yes I am not the only crazy person who cats decide to thrust themselves upon , we need pictures!


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## chaps89 (24 July 2020)

I've added one to the OP but here's another 
I bought a litter tray, just hoping he knows how to use it 🤔


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## Meowy Catkin (24 July 2020)

Gorgeous!


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## HufflyPuffly (24 July 2020)

Aww he's lovely and very distinctive! No idea why the picture didn't show before?

All of mine have accepted the litter tray well, Squirrel I used lots of them dotted about in corners or behind things just in case of accidents, but that was more because of how young she was.


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## Rumtytum (24 July 2020)

I rather think he ‘found’ you! Very handsome boy 😊


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## BeckyFlowers (24 July 2020)

Lucky you, I wish I was one of these people who just happens across a cat!  Look how at-home he has made himself   More pics please.

PS: Huffly, can you please update your threads with pics, thanks.


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## TheMule (24 July 2020)

Cats are very good at keeping multiple addresses!


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## 9tails (24 July 2020)

Welcome to the world of being owned by a cat!


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## Archangel (24 July 2020)

He is gorgeous.


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## chaps89 (24 July 2020)

He certainly has walked in like he owns the place and made himself comfortable, but he's very polite too. He may well just be treating us like a hotel and be ready to go back to his usual home soon - though currently he shows no signs of going anywhere!
I think @Archangel hits the nail on the head there with that one!
I spoke to my normal vet earlier about fleas and they said for now advantage or frontline from Pets at home would be ok.
My OH has said he'll go, and I just know he will come back with half the shops supplies of toys and catnip 😂
We lost our old boy a few months ago so it's lovely to have a cat around again. 
We have our names down for a couple of kittens and someone may yet come forwards for him or he may not settle being an indoor cat, but we'll just see what happens.

In the meantime, he does need a name, we can't keep referring to him as 'him' or 'the cat'! 
So, any ideas?


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## FinnishLapphund (24 July 2020)

Blaze, both because of his marking, and because he blazed into your home, and lives.


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## Rumtytum (24 July 2020)

Gordon.
(No reason, it just popped into my head whilst I was admiring his pic).


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## BeckyFlowers (24 July 2020)

Derek.


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## chaps89 (24 July 2020)

Hmmm. Popped him out in the garden to see if he would toilet (he legs it as soon as you put him in the litter tray and he's been in a long time)
No toilet but he was eyeing up the 6ft plus fence and trying to get under the gate.

Question is, do we let him back out to try and find his way home incase we have unintentionally cat-napped him, or do we hang onto him so if someone sees the FB post or calls the vet etc we still have him.

Or equally if no-one does try to claim him at least we know he's safe and can try to find him a more suitable home, rather than having unintentionally let a stray/dumped cat go?

Why oh why don't people microchip or have ID tags on their pets?


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## TheMule (24 July 2020)

chaps89 said:



			Hmmm. Popped him out in the garden to see if he would toilet (he legs it as soon as you put him in the litter tray and he's been in a long time)
No toilet but he was eyeing up the 6ft plus fence and trying to get under the gate.

Question is, do we let him back out to try and find his way home incase we have unintentionally cat-napped him, or do we hang onto him so if someone sees the FB post or calls the vet etc we still have him.

Or equally if no-one does try to claim him at least we know he's safe and can try to find him a more suitable home, rather than having unintentionally let a stray/dumped cat go?

Why oh why don't people microchip or have ID tags on their pets?
		
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Please let him out, he looks like a well loved and well cared for cat so he is most likely just crashing at yours temporarily and it is just awful when your own cat doesn’t come home.


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## Archangel (24 July 2020)

I would let him do his thing in case he belongs to someone but leave the door and windows open so he knows he is welcome. 

One thing is for sure though, you are ready for a cat.


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## FinnishLapphund (24 July 2020)

chaps89 said:



			Hmmm. Popped him out in the garden to see if he would toilet (he legs it as soon as you put him in the litter tray and he's been in a long time)
No toilet but he was eyeing up the 6ft plus fence and trying to get under the gate.

Question is, do we let him back out to try and find his way home incase we have unintentionally cat-napped him, or do we hang onto him so if someone sees the FB post or calls the vet etc we still have him.

Or equally if no-one does try to claim him at least we know he's safe and can try to find him a more suitable home, rather than having unintentionally let a stray/dumped cat go?

Why oh why don't people microchip or have ID tags on their pets?
		
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Personally I wouldn't say that a cat that is neither microchipped, nor have any old fashioned ID number in the ear, nor have any collar with ID tags, and are itchy enough to suspect fleas, are necessarily that well looked after by someone else. 

And what if he doesn't go back to where he came from? Someone sees your FB post, calls, and you have to say "Oh we let him out, and he disappeared again." I would rather do the old fashioned way, and put up posters around your neighbourhood. It seems to me as if cats with multiple homes usually have a locally living original owner. 

Anyhow, it is possible that you've bought the wrong type of cat sand. We used to buy a cat sand which looked like wood pellets, then when I came home with Berta the Cornish Rex, she was horrified, and refused to use the litter box. After two, three days, we went to the nearest store, bought a small, cheap bag of a tiny bits of gravel type of cat sand, mixed it with only a little of our ordinary cat sand, and then Berta realised that it was her new litter box.


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## chaps89 (24 July 2020)

See, that's the thing, I'd be devastated if he were mine and missing. 
The roads by us are busy and we have a train line only a few hundred yards away, hence why we only have house cats but I know not everyone agrees with that.
Once he was back inside he settled on the sofa for a cuddle straight away.
We filled his tray with compost to see if that will help, I bought wood pellet litter as that's what I've always used but maybe we should try another type.
Will open the window and keep a close eye so he has the choice to come back if he wants. 
The window was open most of the day and although he jumped out, he sat on the driveway, itched/licked, miaowed then came back in!


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## chaps89 (25 July 2020)

He spent the night on the bottom of the bed, he's very polite/well trained. Didn't demand breakfast but wolfed down a sachet of food when I put one down.

We opened the windows and gave him a choice. He sat on the drive for a bit then wandered off down the road.
Cats protection have paper collars that we printed out, that say this cat has been visiting us and might be a stray and a space for our number, so we'll see if he comes back or we get a text or a call. Hopefully he will safely find his way back to his family - and hopefully they will microchip and de-flea the poor thing!


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## Meowy Catkin (25 July 2020)

The paper collar is an excellent idea.


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## chaps89 (25 July 2020)

He's just jumped back in through the window, still wearing his collar.
I am hoping he has toiletted whilst out as he hasn't been in the flat or the garden
Watching OH make his breakfast


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## asmp (25 July 2020)

Think the paper collars are a great idea - hadn’t heard of them before


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## BeckyFlowers (25 July 2020)

Your OH has very bony toes, and some excellent tan lines


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## chaps89 (25 July 2020)

We have de-flead him, if he's going to hang around I don't want him bringing nasties with him, and he stinks.

I spoke to my friendly vet who gave us some really good advice - she's also a cats protection person.
She said if we let him out and he comes and goes make sure he always has the paper collars because if he is treating us like a hotel and popping home, his owners won't know anything is amiss/going on otherwise. The paper collar should then alert them to an issue.
Equally, it could be that they have gone on holiday and he has got upset by the lack of routine and left home temporarily.
She suggested either keep him in for a week/10 days time, to give owners chance to notice he's missing/get back from holiday/lost posters to appear, which is probably best in the long run as should give a definite answer to the situation.
Or we let him come and go but always with paper collars on and hope that the owner sees them and gets in touch. If he comes back without them then either they could be coming off on their own or the owner is taking them off and ignoring them, hence keeping putting them back on, and why this might not tell us if he is indeed a stray or not.
Apparently we only have to do this for a week and prove we have made an effort to find his owners before legally we could take over ownership/formally rehome him.


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## FinnishLapphund (25 July 2020)

Personally, even though I know that cats can decide to fix themselves up with multiple homes, or completely move in with someone else, I sadly believe that it happens far more often that cats gets thrown out/abandoned.

Time will tell which one is the case this time, I suppose. Meanwhile, I can't resist posting this meme:


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## chaps89 (25 July 2020)

😂 He certainly has us (mostly my OH) wrapped firmly around his little paws already! We will just see what the next week brings I suppose.
And yes, OH does have very bony toes 😂


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## Shady (25 July 2020)

Just caught up with this Chaps !!
Well he's definitely been loved and looked after well by somebody recently, despite the fleas. Doesn't look like he's been scrapping it out in the neighborhood either judging by the ears and general look of him. What are his teeth like Chaps? might give you a clue how old he is. He looks young mature to me at first glance.He's got very big ears for a moggie too , I wouldn't be surprised given his colour, if there's something pure mixed in there. He's very lovely.
I would say he's either an escapee , holday casualty or a young cat getting lost from a neighboring street .
If there is room on the collar can you ask to be phoned if the owner reads the collar? then at least you would know , otherwise as you said he could just come back without it and you'd not know if it had fallen off or been taken off.
I hope whichever way it goes it gets resolved. Lovely if you get to keep him if he's been abandoned recently ( very possible given covid) but equally lovely if there is an owner missing him and looking just round the corner or something.
Keep us posted?
My only concern if you keep him is if you do decide on a Rex kitten as i'd imagine you want it to stay indoors? that will cause major problems with one in and out  and one always in...... xxxxx


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## chaps89 (25 July 2020)

His teeth are good so I'd say he's an adolescent/young adult too, he weighs 4kg, and he has definitely got the look of an oriental in his face shape/eyes/ears. I'd be surprised if no-one is looking for him, he's definitely not an out and out stray.

We have called more vets in the neighbouring towns today (bigger chain ones rather than the local indepedants) No-one has reported him missing, but we've logged him and left our details. We've also put 4 signs up in the local shops/newsagents which cover the 4 directions he could have come from, and posted on a lost pets FB page.
So hopefully we'll get a resolution either way.

This is the page with the paper collars on (you have to scroll down a bit) They do ask for us to be called if he's found or owned, which would be the best outcome really 
https://www.cats.org.uk/help-and-advice/lost-found-and-feral-cats/found-a-cat

Plan is to keep him in tonight and in the morning to give someone a chance to notice he's gone and let him out with paper collar tomorrow afternoon, which is when he usually asks to go out and see what happens (presuming no-one has contacted us before then anyway)
I'll definitely keep the thread updated.

I'm still holding out for 2 devon kittens personally but it all depends on what happens with this chap and if we can find him a suitable home if no one comes forwards for him/he doesn't disappear when we let him out. I wouldn't have a kitten and him, it wouldn't work as you say.
I said to OH we will cross the bridge of what to do if he's still here/hanging around and we've heard nothing, this time next week!


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## Jeni the dragon (27 July 2020)

He is very handsome!


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## Lindylouanne (27 July 2020)

Any news. Is he still with you?


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## chaps89 (27 July 2020)

Still with us!
We've put more signs up now and he's on animal search UK.
He had an accident yesterday, but then used the litter tray last night so that's good progress.
He does ask to go out, very politely, but that is followed by toiletting, other than that he seems very content to be in.

We've decided to keep him in for the week now, to try and give someone proper chance to notice he's gone/get back from holiday and see he's not been home/put posters up etc. 
(I'm a bit more inclined to let him out for the toilet when he asks, with his paper collar on, so he doesn't get distressed, but OH pointed out if we'd left him at the vets like they suggested, he'd have had to deal with that. As he's otherwise well looked after and safe here, and we have a greater chance of getting him home by keeping him in, given as every time we let him out he comes back anyway, I've let OH win on that one)


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## chaps89 (27 July 2020)

He has just peed in the litter tray.
He asked to go out, I just sat quietly with him in the bathroom where the tray is, he circled a few times so I thought it wouldn't happen but he got in the tray and went there. Clever cat!


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## luckyoldme (27 July 2020)

Following with intrest..i. going to be gutted for you if an owner comes forward.
The paper collar thing is fantastic!


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## chaps89 (27 July 2020)

Not sure if this will work?
Excuse the running commentary, for the sake of OH bank balance I hope the owner does turn up, for the sake of his mental health I quite hope they don't, he's very smitten.
I have told him not to get too attached, he assures me he won't, and that if he does go back to his owners it's ok to have bought lots of stuff, ready for when we get the kittens.


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## HufflyPuffly (27 July 2020)

I’m just putting it out there that Tiger and Lillycat go out and Huffle and Squirrel stay in... it can be done 😜.


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## Lindylouanne (27 July 2020)

I’m sorry but that’s another stray not going anywhere 🤣 He is absolutely in love with that cat.


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## chaps89 (27 July 2020)

HufflyPuffly said:



			I’m just putting it out there that Tiger and Lillycat go out and Huffle and Squirrel stay in... it can be done 😜.
		
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How?!
And no, we can't have 3 😂 I'm just worried about him staying in or having enough company as and when we return to work, he seems to be a sociable little thing.



Lindylouanne said:



			I’m sorry but that’s another stray not going anywhere 🤣 He is absolutely in love with that cat.
		
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He's got it bad hasn't he 😂


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## HufflyPuffly (27 July 2020)

chaps89 said:



			How?!
And no, we can't have 3 😂 I'm just worried about him staying in or having enough company as and when we return to work, he seems to be a sociable little thing.



He's got it bad hasn't he 😂
		
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I have a no cats out of the front door when I’m coming in rule, the two outdoor ones I let out and in as requested, I don’t have a catflap.

Huffle is pretty good for staying in, I do let her out of the back (I’ve cat proofed), or supervised out at the front. fingers crossed it seems to be working so far! I have four of the blighters now, three is a great number 😂🙈.


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## FinnishLapphund (27 July 2020)

Whatever toy he's playing with, it obviously needed a lot of attention. Nice scratch post, but I couldn't help but notice that the fabric parts are very black, and the current cat is partly white.

I have to admit to not being an enthusiastic cleaner, hoovering once per week is my max, sometimes less. I used to have a nice floor to ceiling grey cat tree, the black/white/brown cat hairs, and other dirt usually blended in quite well. Then my dad moved it to be able to change glass in a window, and managed to break it.
Found a new floor to ceiling cat tree to a reduced price, but black, and I have to say that white cat hair, parts of claws, and other dirt shows much more. I keep hoping they will wear it out so I will have reason to replace it, but I've had it for well over 5 years, and it looks like it will last for many more years. 

Anyhow, we've had cats where one or two have gone out, but one to two others haven't. Ditto HufflyPuffly, it can be done.


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## Shady (28 July 2020)

I agree it can be done but when you work full time it's not easy or ideal and 'could ' create tension between cats, added to which there is no vaccine for fiv, so the one going out could in theory bring it to the indoor cats.( small risk , but still..)
Not saying Chaps shouldn't do it, the cat is beautiful and clearly happy but there is a downside to some cats being more independent and others not. I have done it myself and I wouldn't personally do it again if I worked full time.

ETA. Just read Huffles post and this works as she has proofed the back, so if proofing can be done it's not a problem as everybody can go out into a safe outdoor space and you just have to watch the front door and windows.


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## chaps89 (28 July 2020)

I'm really not keen on the idea of having 1 indoor, 1 outdoor tbh.
We could cat proof the courtyard so they* could go in and out of that via the window when we're in. 
My OH is not so keen on that idea though and thinks letting them out in the day and having a cat flap in and out of the garden would be ok so they can roam - not for Devon kitties but for this one.
I don't know, lots to think about anyway. Personally I just want house cats and I'm not sure this cat is a house cat but you can see how taken my OH is. 
Trying not to stress about it for now until he's been here a bit longer and we can work out if he has an owner or not.
(*they being open at the moment as to whether it is this cat or future cats/kittens)

He's off to the vets today. 
He isn't toiletting anywhere near often enough, and today he seemed to choose to go to the litter tray (big progress from asking to go out first) but then when he got near it, he seemed very stressed, backed away and still hasn't been. 
He seems well in himself, that and the constant licking of himself aside but obviously we don't want to risk a UTI.


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## Meowy Catkin (28 July 2020)

We found that one of our ex feral/farm cats didn't understand what cat litter was. We put soil (from an old grow bag) in it and he used it straight away. Now he understands what they tray is for we have started to put cat litter in it but he definitely prefers the soil.


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## chaps89 (28 July 2020)

We put soil (compost) in it to start and it didn't seem to make any difference originally.
It has world's best in at the moment, but I can swap back to more compost.
I must have worried him somehow yesterday as he used it fine then (although even then he wasn't going as often as he should) and today he goes into the bathroom where the tray is, but gets really low to the ground, slinky then stops and legs it 
I do wish I had pushed harder to let him out with his paper collar on, I feel like we've caused this by insisting he stay in.
OH is adamant we followed professional advice, if he'd been in a vets he'd have had the same issue and also that there's no guarantee that if he's outside he's still toiletting anyway. 
All sensible, logical points, but I just feel really bad.


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## Meowy Catkin (28 July 2020)

Is the tray open or does it have a cover? I'd try changing the type of tray. Some have a flap and I usually take that off because we only have one cat who'll use a covered tray with a flap. 

Maybe try moving the tray somewhere else too. A different location might make him more comfortable.


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## chaps89 (28 July 2020)

It has a lid but we left it off after the first day.
There's a bigger tray in the bathroom, which is where he had his accident/seems to head to when it seems like he needs to go. 
We also have a smaller/shallower tray which is in the lounge/kitchen (that I bought very expensive small animal shavings for - wow what a mark up!) Which we've tried shavings and world's best in but he totally ignores that one. (His food/water is also in that room, but at the opposite side. Unfortunately our flat is only 3 rooms - bedroom, en-suite bathroom, lounge/kitchen, so nowhere else for it! And why 3 cats would be a no go!)
Sorry, not trying to shoot down ideas, really open to anything at the moment, but think/hope we covered that one?


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## Shady (28 July 2020)

Chaps. Cats can literally go all day and not need a pee. Or all night for that matter. I often get up and there's nothing in the box by any of them ( 3). I wouldn't worry about the frequency  or lack of too much.
I would put ordinary earth from the garden, not compost as it smells weird , has a different texture maybe.

I get what your OH is saying but it's not the same as he would be in a cage with no choice.

He's probably just not used to going in them and would prefer an alternative, which would be outside so he's getting a little stressed.
I would either ignore him, try some earth or sand or let him out.


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## D66 (28 July 2020)

If you get an electronic cat flap you can set which cats are able to use it.


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## Shady (28 July 2020)

D66 said:



			If you get an electronic cat flap you can set which cats are able to use it.
		
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Iv'e tried these and it resulted in chaos at the cat flap !!!
The indoor cats would start digging the hell out of it trying to open it and then given that Siamese are pretty sneaky they would squeeze through alongside or sort of underneath the outdoor cat or bully it to go as fast as possible to get out too. It was quite a few years ago so perhaps they have changed now ..........!


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## FinnishLapphund (28 July 2020)

You say he doesn't go as often as he should, but in general the average cat poops once per day, sometimes two, and pees two or three times per day. And that is the average, sometimes it is less than that, as Shady already have mentioned, sometimes a little more.

If he goes less than that, is it both pooping, and peeing that he does less? If it is only peeing, and since he's a male, it is possible that he have a bladder stone making it painful to pee. Males have a smaller "tube" from the bladder, than compared to females, so sometimes a gravel that a female cat could be able to pee out, might cause problem for a male.

I just want to mention it so that you're aware about that there can be another cause behind his reluctance to using the litter box, besides the usual wrong type of litter box, wrong type of cat litter, wrong placement of litter box (as in next to food + water), and/or only used to doing his business outdoors.


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## chaps89 (28 July 2020)

So he pooh'd on Sunday evening, the time before that was Sunday morning. That's all.
Wee wise he wee'd on the floor (massive puddle) Sunday afternoon, then again yesterday lunchtime in the tray, again a very long/large wee. Both very strong smelling but look like normal wee colour, not brown/reddish.
So he hasn't pooh'd in coming up to 48 hours and 24 hours for a wee.
It's a UTI we're most worried about as I know these can be bad for male cats.
I'll try dirt from the garden, we have 1 pathetic flowerbed I can probably scrape some up from, I hadn't realised that about compost, thankyou.
He eats a pouch of wet food am and pm and has a tiny handful of biscuits available which he picks at. He's always happy to eat but doesn't pester for food.
He seems well in himself, very calm, very happy for a fuss or to be left on the sofa snoozing.


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## Shady (28 July 2020)

Mmmm, ok he's holding both in as he really isn't happy about his toilet arrangement. 
That's not an enormous  amount of food but i'd expect a poo for sure today and rather than worry about an infection i'd concentrate on him doing that.  ( do take him to the vet if you are genuinely  worried ) He will be getting moisture from the food so possibly isn't drinking much anyway but you want to avoid constipation and dehydration. Cats are a bit weird sometimes and can reduce fluid intake if they are unsettled with the toilet situation
Honestly Chaps If he won't use a dirt box today I'd let him out.
I get that feeling your OH is rather smitten with him and if he goes out he might disappear and not come back?

I now have visions of you digging feverishly and chucking plants everywhere.  xxx


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## chaps89 (28 July 2020)

OH has taken him to the vet now as he's worried.
I agree, I think he's just really upset by the toilet arrangement and would rather not go than go inside, poor lad.
He doesn't seem to drink alot but he has a bowl of water and one of those cat water fountains available at all times, so he has choice and as you say he'll get some fluid by the pouches.
This is the one year we've not done anything with the garden so no fear of upsetting any attempts at flowers thankfully 😂

I think OH is worried about letting him out as a) we won't know if he does actually go to the toilet (I suspect he will but obviously won't be able to prove it) and b) if he doesn't come back we don't know if that's because he found his owners or has gone straying, then if owners do come forward we won't have him anymore. Obviously the paper collar helps with that but there's no guarantee either whoever finds him will contact us or that it hasn't come off itself.
I'm hoping the vet will say he's physically ok and that we will just have to let him outside to do his business.
Not sure how well we can manage that long term (no cat flap options from inside to outside as no back door and front door leads into communal hallway) and we are supposed to be going away next weekend for 2 nights, but we will just have to see.
It helps writing it all down, I hadn't realised how stressful I've been finding it :-/
It's lovely having a cat around again (really really lovely!), but mine have all been toilet trained/house cats already and they've been 'mine' as bought/adopted, the not knowing if he's here to stay/when he might go plus the responsibility of him being someone else's cat is quite unsettling!


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## Shady (28 July 2020)

I get that totally Chaps and your situation is unusual and not easy at all. It's possible he's temporary and you are trying to do the right thing now, rather than setting something up long term.
There is always a period of adjustment and settling for any adult cat coming into a new home. Sometimes they've never even used a dirt box, except when tiny. Cats are normally very clean animals and i'm pretty certain he doesn't want to pee on the floor but equally he's not happy with the dirt box at the moment. Give him time and i'm sure he will be. The only other choice is to let him out and hope he comes back. I understand your stress completely but you can only do your best given the situation . xxxx

You could have a cat flap put in glass if you haven't got a door option?


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## ILuvCowparsely (28 July 2020)

chaps89 said:



			His teeth are good so I'd say he's an adolescent/young adult too, he weighs 4kg, and he has definitely got the look of an oriental in his face shape/eyes/ears. I'd be surprised if no-one is looking for him, he's definitely not an out and out stray.

We have called more vets in the neighbouring towns today (bigger chain ones rather than the local indepedants) No-one has reported him missing, but we've logged him and left our details. We've also put 4 signs up in the local shops/newsagents which cover the 4 directions he could have come from, and posted on a lost pets FB page.
So hopefully we'll get a resolution either way.

This is the page with the paper collars on (you have to scroll down a bit) They do ask for us to be called if he's found or owned, which would be the best outcome really 
https://www.cats.org.uk/help-and-advice/lost-found-and-feral-cats/found-a-cat

Plan is to keep him in tonight and in the morning to give someone a chance to notice he's gone and let him out with paper collar tomorrow afternoon, which is when he usually asks to go out and see what happens (presuming no-one has contacted us before then anyway)
I'll definitely keep the thread updated.

I'm still holding out for 2 devon kittens personally but it all depends on what happens with this chap and if we can find him a suitable home if no one comes forwards for him/he doesn't disappear when we let him out. I wouldn't have a kitten and him, it wouldn't work as you say.
I said to OH we will cross the bridge of what to do if he's still here/hanging around and we've heard nothing, this time next week!
		
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also try your local cats protection, the local vets not just immediately local and rspca in case someone reported him lost also, pet missing register.  Soi handsome and cute hope it is a happy ending for him, why don't people microchip their cats, such a small cost for such a big reward.


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## luckyoldme (28 July 2020)

I saw this today and seeing how its cst related I thought I would share it here.
The caption read.
We have two skinny cats and one fat cat!


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## chaps89 (29 July 2020)

Shady - thanks for being so understanding and encouraging.
It's silly - we have a lovely little patio courtyard that is completely enclosed/private, which our bedroom backs onto. But they just put regular windows in, not a French door, so you can only access it from the outside of the house. So a cat flap would only work if we put a shelf on the other side/outside of the window for him to jump on and off. Not overly sure I can see the landlord going for it unfortunately! I think the wall might be a more discreet option, but again in a rental property I'm not sure how feasible it is. Definitely something I want to explore once we know what we're doing in the long run. (We do have it on the lease that we're allowed cats here btw)

I luv cow parsley - He is reported missing with 2 local independent vet practices and 3 large chain practices in the neighbouring towns, so we've gone a bit further afield  we also registered him as missing with cats protection and on the animal search website as well, just incase he somehow got here from much further away. Will try RSPCA too though, thanks. A microchip really could have made all the difference here!

Luckyoldme - my old cat would have been the fat cat in that picture 😂

He had a clean bill of health from the vet, no UTI.
He has got some sores from over grooming as a result of the fleas so we have some isaderm to apply. 
They double checked for a microchip and nothing.
The vet thinks he's about 1 or 2 years old and remarked he seemed very settled, friendly and not at all stressed.
Therefore they think the toiletting is just him needing to learn about it and we just need to be patient.
Typically, upon getting back from the vets he did both a pee and a poo in the litter tray 😏


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## FinnishLapphund (29 July 2020)

Easier since it is my own home, and I don't need a landlord's permission, but I took out the glass in a window downstairs, put a greenhouse glass substitute plastic panel there instead, and put in a cat flap in that. If we need to sell this house one day, we could just remove the window frame again, and pay to have new glass installed in it.
And then there is a small step outside the window.


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## Shady (29 July 2020)

We did that too once FL !
I am pretty sure you could make something to go outside the window if you put a cat flap in . My friend has a little platform and sloping plank for hers.
My only concern would be the cat coming and going all the time through your bedroom, which could get to be a problem unless you kept him in at night and locked out of there or blocked the flap. I have done this too. It can work depending on the cats character.

Very pleased to hear that he is in good health and has used the dirt box,,,,,,yay. xxxxx


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## Bradsmum (29 July 2020)

I'm sorry but I'm really uncomfortable with taking this cat in having had a cat that liked to wander but always came back when he was ready. One of our neighbours encouraged him in, feeding him and keeping him in. This cat does not look uncared for (apart from the fleas).  He seems house trained and not used to a litter tray and may just be confused.  It took us a long time to find our cat.  Spoke to the neighbour who was very drippy about it but once she stopped feeding him, he stopped visiting her and eating his food at home. He still took himself off once or twice a year but returned home and settled down for months - that was just him and he lived for 15 years.


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## chaps89 (29 July 2020)

I do absolutely understand where you're coming from @Bradsmum. 
He has only been kept in since Sunday. Thursday through to Sunday he had the choice to come and go, we haven't at any point bought him in ourselves, and have at times put him outside, as well as just leaving the window open for him to choose. 
We are aware that he may well not be a stray and just visiting/over friendly but unfortunately there is also the option that he is a stray/has been dumped too. Trust me, I would love to know either way!
So we are just giving it a bit of time to see if anyone starts looking for him/notices he's gone incase that is the case, as per the vet and cats protection advice.
If there's been nothing by the weekend (when it will have been a week) we will start letting him out with paper collars on and see what happens. 
If he has an owner hopefully he will go back to them or they will contact us. 
If he continues to hang around and his collars stay on then we will have to have a proper conversation/make a decision about him long term as by then I just can't see how no one would have got in touch?!

It's a very strange situation and one I would really rather not be in! 
We are just trying to do the best for him in the long run (find his owner) and keep him healthy and safe in the meantime whilst following professional advice on what to do in this situation.


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## Shady (29 July 2020)

I also understand Bradsmums post but would add that if the cat had been micro chipped, situations like this could be resolved very easily in a day


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## Bradsmum (29 July 2020)

Hi Chaps89, my post was not meant as a critisism as I appreciate you have posted in vets and on social media.  Our cat was microchipped but sadly this neighbour did not think to get him checked .  Cats are never really owned are they - it's all on their terms.  Good luck whichever way it goes


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## chaps89 (29 July 2020)

Thankyou. I'm sorry if I'm a bit sensitive, I really do see both sides to this one and I honestly can't say enough how much I hope we're not cat-napping him from someone!
(As time goes on I doubt it as I can't see why someone wouldn't have got in touch/we would have seen lost posters etc, but obviously if someone is in hospital or on holiday etc then they may be none the wiser anyway, so that's not a given either. I guess if it is because the owner is away at least he's being looked after in the meantime? I do hate the not knowing!) As you say, cats do live life on their own terms  

I can't believe they didn't check him for a chip, or even just recognise him from being out and about in the area, I'm glad you got to the bottom of it with yours ok in the end.


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## FinnishLapphund (29 July 2020)

Bradsmum said:



			Hi Chaps89, my post was not meant as a critisism as I appreciate you have posted in vets and on social media.  Our cat was microchipped but sadly this neighbour did not think to get him checked .  Cats are never really owned are they - it's all on their terms.  Good luck whichever way it goes
		
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Presumably even if the idiot/your neighbour only had at least put up some posters around the neighbourhood saying We've found this cat, you would have seen it, and would have been able to find your cat much sooner.


Must have been something like around 27 years ago by now, in February, a tortoiseshell and white cat turned up outside our cat enclosure, and tried to get in. We ignored her, and thought she would go home. But she came back, for two, three days, getting skinnier, and more desperate. 
The fenceposts was on the outside of the net so our cats wouldn't be able to use them to climb out. One night she must have climbed up one of the posts, and jumped into our enclosure, because one morning we opened the porch door, and found her in the enclosure. 

She wasn't keen on my dogs, so I put up a puppy pen on the porch, placed a dog cage with a rain + windproof cover on it inside the pen, and threw in several layers of blankets in the dog cage. Gave her a food, and a water bowl also inside the dog cage, and litter tray in the pen. And since it was before digital cameras, I simply wrote a short description of her, and put up some posters in the neighbourhood, and asked my dad put up one in the nearest food store. 

Also asked my dad to check the other posters in the food store, to see if someone was missing her. I don't know how he managed to fail to see the owner's poster, perhaps he was too worried about the possibility of us having added a sixth cat to the household. Anyhow, fortunately, our posters was noticed. 
Owner had been out looking for her every day since she disappeared one or two days after New Years Eve. He thought there wouldn't be any more fireworks, had let her out, and went away for a few hours. But a neighbour to him heard loud fireworks while he was away, and the cat must have gotten scared, and ran away. 

Bad timing, I was away at a dog class when her owner came to collect her. According to my mum, they went out on our porch, he called her name, she came out of the open dog cage, owner sucked her up in his arms, thanked mum profusely, his girlfriend gave mum a big box of chocolates, and they went home. 

This happened before microchipping, and she wasn't ID-marked in the ear, but still, even with only a written description she was recognised, and could be returned to her owner. 


By the way, our very first cat, Misan, was thrown out of a car which did a quick stop on a busy road when she was probably around 1 year old. 
Fortunately the car behind also stopped, and picked her up. Took her home, but their cat hated her, so they started to call around to people they knew which they thought might be interested, and my mum said we wanted her. 
Sadly Misan was later run over, and killed by a speeding car, and to comfort my sister, and me, mum said we would get two new cats from a rescue...


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## Sussexbythesea (30 July 2020)

My ginger cat kept disappearing and so I thought he may be visiting someone else. I bought some cheap collars and wrote a note and my number on it. I got a call the next day from an old lady who he’d been spending a lot of time with. He is microchipped. Sadly she kept encouraging him in despite me asking her not to and feeding him and now basically he lives with her. I’m gutted about it he was the cuddliest cat I’ve ever had. I think getting the dog was a nail in the coffin although my other cat is totally fine with him. 

Now I retain ownership as she’s 85 and he’s only 4 but he mostly lives with her. I do feel sorry for her as she loves him and is lonely although she has family she was widowed only a couple of years ago. He occasionally turns up for food in the middle of the night. I call her regularly and visited prior to Covid. He’s certainly never been anything but loved and cared for.


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## chaps89 (30 July 2020)

That's a real shame about your cat and that the lady continued to encourage him after you'd asked not @Sussexbythesea That said, in the nicest way I can say it, I'm glad you're still in touch with her and that he keeps her company

He's still here, not heard anything yet or had genuine responses to our ads (by genuine I mean not 'oh isn't he cute' type responses which we've had a fair few of) He's used the litter tray again. He is just the friendliest sweetest thing


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## chaps89 (3 August 2020)

I've just had a phone call from someone whose seen one of the signs in the local shops. 
They don't have WhatsApp but they're going to try and get some photos over to me to see if he's their cat but it seems likely - grey with a white mark between his eyes and they're at the other end of the village. 
(We were advised to ask for photos from anyone who rings to prove their ownership)
Not heard anything since but I'll keep the thread updated.


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## chaps89 (3 August 2020)

Not the same cat, very different face markings.
Freaky that an 18 month old neutered male grey and white cat went missing 2 months ago in the next village/edge of our village and it's not the same one though.


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## Meowy Catkin (3 August 2020)

Wow! I wasn't expecting that. I'm also kind of happy that it was the wrong cat because I know your OH has fallen a bit in love.


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## Sussexbythesea (3 August 2020)

chaps89 said:



			Not the same cat, very different face markings.
Freaky that an 18 month old neutered male grey and white cat went missing 2 months ago in the next village/edge of our village and it's not the same one though.
		
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Phew! I’d be so attached by now as I’m sure you are that I’d be gutted if the owner did actually turn up.


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## chaps89 (3 August 2020)

The sad thing is, we might have to look to rehome him 
The road we're on is too busy and we have a train track on the other side of us so we just don't feel comfortable having free range cats here. And he is most definitely an outdoor cat.
We are cat proofing the garden, as we were going to do that anyway. 
If he settles and it's enough for him to go out there then he will probably stay (assuming no one else comes forwards for him) but it's a patio courtyard so I can imagine he may still be unsettled/it's definitely not the same as free ranging.


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## FinnishLapphund (3 August 2020)

chaps89 said:



			The sad thing is, we might have to look to rehome him 
The road we're on is too busy and we have a train track on the other side of us so we just don't feel comfortable having free range cats here. And he is most definitely an outdoor cat.
We are cat proofing the garden, as we were going to do that anyway.
If he settles and it's enough for him to go out there then he will probably stay (assuming no one else comes forwards for him) but it's a patio courtyard so I can imagine he may still be unsettled/it's definitely not the same as free ranging.
		
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Cilla the moggy wants to go out where the dogs go out ( = front door), and not only have to settle with her cat enclosure. But she doesn't understand the risks of being run over on the road, I do, so I tell her (and myself) that we can't always get everything we want, and that she'll just have to be happy with what she got.

I have bird feeders on that side of the house, a bit away, but in full view from the cat enclosure. There is 2 large, and 3 smaller, ferns to run/walk between, an elevated area with better view, a stone she likes to sit on, and another stone large enough to lie on (when she doesn't lie in the grass). Last year I planted some bamboo intended to become another place to both offer shade, and a place to lurk behind, but it haven't grown as much as I hoped it would, maybe next year. Some years I take in a tree branch for a bit of claw trimming, the latest one needs to be replaced this year. And there's a small bush, but I've forgotten what it is.

Only because an area is small, doesn't mean you can't enrich it.


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## Sussexbythesea (3 August 2020)

chaps89 said:



			The sad thing is, we might have to look to rehome him 
The road we're on is too busy and we have a train track on the other side of us so we just don't feel comfortable having free range cats here. And he is most definitely an outdoor cat.
We are cat proofing the garden, as we were going to do that anyway.
If he settles and it's enough for him to go out there then he will probably stay (assuming no one else comes forwards for him) but it's a patio courtyard so I can imagine he may still be unsettled/it's definitely not the same as free ranging.
		
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Oh that’s a shame . You’ll just have to move .


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## BeckyFlowers (3 August 2020)

Yeah you'll have to move.  It's the only option  
By the way, what have you decided to name him?


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## chaps89 (3 August 2020)

😂 that would be one expensive cat! 

He is very good at playing, my OH is great at doing that bit, me less so.
We're definitely trying to keep his life enriched and interesting, so would do the same in the garden. The ferns are a good idea, we don't have any grass but do have an old tree that is great to scratch/climb on (it's cut down already as it was dead but handy as we don't want escapees!) Your garden sounds like a lovely set up FL.

'Our' rex kittens are due this week. There's obviously a long time before we go visit them (after first vaccs at 8/9 weeks) and longer before we'd pick them up, but we don't want to mess the breeder around. Not really sure what to do now, I honestly thought he'd have been claimed by now!


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## chaps89 (3 August 2020)

We tried to hold out on naming him given he's not ours etc but had to start calling him something other than 'cat' 🙄
I think we've been through every male name going - and certainly reading them out to each other he never seemed to respond to any. 
Names I liked were Hugo, Humphrey, Solomon or Pickles. OH like Ollie and Jack. So naturally we called him none of these and he's currently known as Stanley!


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## Shady (4 August 2020)

I am being very careful how I post on here Chaps as I know how much you would like the Rex's.
You have limited options due to your property size/ layout and it's location.
I don't know what I would do but much depends on how you honestly feel about the present cat compared to how much you want the Rex's. 

Wait till the Rex's are born and if there are two you need to have a good chat and decide what you really want.

In the mean time You could see how Stanley is with just the flat and patio . If he is happy that would open up the possibility of keeping him and getting 1 Rex instead of 2.( I personally think 3 is too much for your flat size)


I really don't envy your situation Chaps. xxxxx


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## chaps89 (4 August 2020)

Thanks Shady.
It's certainly a very odd and difficult situation.
He's very friendly and just so sweet, but much more of an independent cat and certainly doesn't do cuddles on your lap. It could just be early days of course. 
But that's why we wonder if he's better going somewhere he can go outdoors more.
And there isn't any guarantee the rex's would be any different, but by breed characteristics it's likely.

We've certainly wondered about keeping him and having 1 kitten (both with access to the garden but not outside properly so on the same routine/access) but he can be very rough when he plays and don't have any experience introducing cats so not sure if it's a good idea really? 
Did wonder if having a kitten to play with would be good for him though. 

We definitely wouldn't have 3 cats here, absolutely not.

Need to get the garden sorted asap really, and see how he gets on there and what kittens arrive


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## Shady (4 August 2020)

I think if he was going to do lap cuddles he would have by now. Some cats are just nice to have around and like you to interact with them but just don't 'do' laps. 

The Rex's will be kittens and unless there are some very iffy genes the chances of them being typical of their breed is pretty high. Indoor cats almost stay as kittens and have a greater need for attention in my experience.

That is the big question here regarding keeping him.
 He MAY be happy just with the patio and he MAY like a companion .You will soon know the first if you cat proof the patio! Depending on his reaction will determine whether you get a kitten and then if you get a kitten, will he accept it .He will then either hate the kitten to the point of wanting out of the patio and be stressed that he can't , or he will grumble a bit at first and then live happily with said kitten. He's young so the chances are high  that he will accept it.

But let's say you keep him and he's ok with the patio. You then pay a lot of money for the  Rex  kitten that you have set your heart on and it doesn't work out..... 

I don't want this to sound heartless but if he doesn't like just having the flat and patio I would either re home him or give him total freedom whilst accepting that he may get killed on the roads or train track.

You had/have your hearts set on two Rex kittens to live as indoor cats with access to a patio. This is very doable and you would all be happy.

As lovely as this cat is, he has come along and changed everything.


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## chaps89 (5 August 2020)

Thankyou @Shady 
I do really miss having a lap cat, I love giving him scratches and cuddles but I so miss curling up on the sofa with them buried into some nook or cranny beside you having a fuss. 
It would be unfair to force that onto him and so along with possibly not having enough outdoor space, I do think we need to look at finding him the right long term home given as no owner has been in touch.
I'm really sad though, I feel really horrible about it all and will really miss him, I wish I was able to accept him for who he is as it's not his fault  
He's not itchy or grooming half so much now so we seem to be on top of the fleas, and his coat quality is so much better - it was gritty, dusty and smelly when he arrived. Now it's soft and silky and he smells like a kitty cat should! We also seem to have cracked the litter training, he goes straight in either tray now and seems less freaked out by it all.

Apparently he heard all about me saying he's an outdoor cat and I came home earlier to find this, almost like he was proving a point. It's a hard life eh!


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## Meredith Brouillette (25 August 2020)

Once you go cat you never come back  I have 3..but 5 y earlier I would never consider myself a catperson.


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## Bradsmum (25 August 2020)

If I was still in Surrey I would offer to rehome him for you if that's the way you decide to go but sadly we moved to Wales, though this would be a perfect cat home with lots of safe outdoor space.  He just looks such a beautiful cat and I love his unusual markings.


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## chaps89 (25 August 2020)

So I should probably update.
He's currently still here.
He's been microchipped and the garden has been cat proofed and turned into a cat playground with shelves, a bridge, tree trunks etc for him to climb on.
He doesn't go out when it's raining though 🙈 not through lack of trying, he just wants to stay indoors 🙄
He does seem to have a bit of a skin allergy which we are monitoring for now, but he seems much more settled.
I had forgotten about feline alarm calls. His favourite is to lick your feet 😳 or climb onto the headboard and jump down onto you.
He does seem alot more settled, skin issues aside, we are now just trying to work out what we do regarding him and kittens :-/

And of course photos!
Seems the penny dropped with being a lap cat. Only with my OH mind you.



Exploring the garden



His absolutely favourite toy


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## Lindylouanne (25 August 2020)

I am glad you still have him and that he is in such a safe environment. My house cats were so dense they didn’t even think about climbing out of their unroofed not very secure den 😂


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## chaps89 (25 August 2020)

My old cat would never have dreamed of such things either, he was happy to just go out and sunbathe.
Stanley however likes to stick his nose into everything, everywhere! So we fully enclosed it to be on the safe side, figuring if he doesn't settle then it's done for the kittens anyway.


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## Surbie (25 August 2020)

He's adorable! Love the face-plant lap pose.


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## BeckyFlowers (25 August 2020)

What a lovely update!


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## honetpot (25 August 2020)

Sussexbythesea said:



			My ginger cat kept disappearing and so I thought he may be visiting someone else. I bought some cheap collars and wrote a note and my number on it. I got a call the next day from an old lady who he’d been spending a lot of time with. He is microchipped. Sadly she kept encouraging him in despite me asking her not to and feeding him and now basically he lives with her. I’m gutted about it he was the cuddliest cat I’ve ever had. I think getting the dog was a nail in the coffin although my other cat is totally fine with him.

Now I retain ownership as she’s 85 and he’s only 4 but he mostly lives with her. I do feel sorry for her as she loves him and is lonely although she has family she was widowed only a couple of years ago. He occasionally turns up for food in the middle of the night. I call her regularly and visited prior to Covid. He’s certainly never been anything but loved and cared for.
		
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This has happened three times to our family, when the children were small it was very upsetting for them, and you get to get them back when they need the vet, even knocking on the door, telling you the cat is sick. They get the pleasure and you get the bills.
The last one to up sticks just preferred being the only cat, he got on with the others, but our neighbours he just loved, and he would spend hours in their sheds while the husband worked. When we moved they asked if they could keep him, and since the husband has since died he truly is light in someone's life.

 I think the problem is some just like to wander, one of our ferals was killed on the road five miles away, and another was killed about a mile down the road. They are neutered and chipped so if we are 'lucky' we get a call from the vets. I know we have at least two cats that come to visit that belong to someone else, there is dried cat food always left out in the feed room, I know they have homes where they are fed and well looked after. One has already been journey that took him ten miles away,  he ended up in a feral troupe on a farm. The farmer took him to the vets as he is a very striking chocolate brown, with blue eyes and thought he was too friendly to be a feral. He had been gone eighteen months, when he went missing it was posted on local FB, and his owner thought he was dead.
  Our part bred Siamese loves to go out, but she only goes in to the paddocks around the house, and definitely a fair weather cat, to wet and windy, and she stays in.


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## chaps89 (25 August 2020)

honetpot said:



			This has happened three times to our family, when the children were small it was very upsetting for them, and you get to get them back when they need the vet, even knocking on the door, telling you the cat is sick. They get the pleasure and you get the bills.
		
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That's awful 
If anyone came forwards for him we wouldn't expect them to pay for the vet bills he's had, nor would we try and hand him back if he got sick (not that we know where he came from to do that anyway, if we did we'd have taken him there in the first place)

Given his coat condition and just how clingy he was when he turned up and how independent he's been since, I suspect he's perhaps been missing from his home for a while. Just a shame whoever had him before never chipped him and I guess we may never know what his history is.


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## FinnishLapphund (25 August 2020)

By coincidence, I thought about you, and Stanley, and wondered how things where going yesterday, so I had decided to try and find this thread today, to ask for an update.
Or, well, to be honest, I mainly thought about Stanley, and wondered how things where going for him, and then you, and your OH, sort of came in at the end of the thought process.

Happy to read your update, and your cat enclosure looks great!
Any new news on the Devon kitten front, except that you're still not certain about what to do? Have you mentioned what colours they have/are possible? Hypothetically, what if they only have one boy, what would you do then?


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## chaps89 (25 August 2020)

So the kittens are here  (not here with us obviously, but born and well and healthy)
2 boys and 1 girl. The breeder wanted to keep a girl so that leaves 2 boys.
The girl is a tortie, then there's 1 cream boy and the other boy is a lilac tabby. Personally the cream boy is gorgeous and I've mentally dubbed him Milkyway, because he is the colour of the nougat centre of a milky way bar 🙈

So it's, keep Stanley on his own, keep Stanley and have 1 devon kitty, rehome Stanley and take both boys. 
I somehow suspect it will be one of the first 2 options, I can't see OH wanting to rehome Stanley somehow! I honestly wasn't expecting him to settle as well as he seems to have done, albeit only in the last couple of days, I really thought we'd have to rehome him for his benefit (which to a certain extent would make things alot easier)
But I'm not sure about introducing another cat - an un-neutered male (will be given the chop when he's old enough!) and a neutered male whose history we don't know. There's a lot to think about and decide on quite quickly too.


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## FinnishLapphund (25 August 2020)

Personally, I adjust very much in my life after what suits my dogs, and cats, but I draw the line at deciding who should live in my house, and not. When it comes to that, I do what is best for me, and since it suits me to have multiple dogs, and cats, that is what my pets have to put up with. 

So if I had been in your shoes, I would buy Milkyway, and Stanley, and him would simply have to learn to live with each other. Buy a Feliway diffuser, have some ice in the stomach, and most likely they'll either like each other, or learn to tolerate living in the same house, but I think either of those scenarios is okay.


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## chaps89 (25 August 2020)

It's something to discuss with the breeder anyway, we'd like a harmonious house for all our sakes!

Curveball- we are on a waiting list for a rescue/rehome and I've had an email tonight to ask if we're still looking for one, another option 😳


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## FinnishLapphund (25 August 2020)

Oh boy, first you have no cats, and now they're coming from all directions.


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## Shady (26 August 2020)

I was only thinking about you over the weekend as I almost bought a Si Rex! I was sooooo tempted but it was a girl and if I could only have one I would want a boy. So tempting though , although she wasn't very pretty, bless her !

I Love the patio Chaps. It is super and Stanley looks very settled there. Make sure you have some grass to eat  somewhere in it.

Just a question regarding skin condition. What's it looking like? and is he worrying over it? has the vet prescribed anything or given an opinion? If it's a flea allergy a cortisone jab will help, if not fleas look at diet

Well given how settled Stanley is and how much your OH likes him I would go for 1 Rex if you still really want one,it probably doesn't matter which sex . Cream boy sounds lovely ,will possibly darken to more apricot  all over , darker more ginger on  the points. These are Mr Banjax kittens Chaps?
The trick is to get them playing together as much as possible. Most adult cats hate kittens because they are small fast home invaders but Stanley is young so I am fairly confident he will accept a newbie but will have a hissy fit initially for a week or so( maybe less)

I have just seen that an adult may be available. I would personally not go for it given your living space and Stanley. Bringing an adult into a house with limited space and an existing cat could give you and them serious stress.

Keep us posted Chaps !


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## Meowy Catkin (26 August 2020)

I would also go for one kitten. 

We have always added a single kitten whenever we bought a new cat to add to the adults and it has always gone smoothly. I've always tried to 'set things up for success' but was lucky with our Burmese who loved kittens.


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## chaps89 (26 August 2020)

So seems like Stanley and a kitten might be a way forwards then. 
I did think an adult rehome plus Stanley might not be a good idea but it's new territory to me.

His skin is a strange one.
He groomed himself ALOT when he first turned up, we de-flea'd him and the vet gave us isaderm to put on 2 sore patches he had down his front legs.
They cleared up with the cream, the grooming has lessened but he will still lick himself excessively on occasion.
Initially we thought fleas, then we thought the heat then maybe he was picking up on some stress between us. But it's cooled down and we're not stressed and although he's again not licking himself constantly like he was, he does more than normal (in my view)
He won't let us brush him and we have Feliways plugged in.
He has 2 bald patches, 1 on his tummy near his back legs, one on his chest/the top of one of his front legs, yet I've never seen him licking those areas particularly.
He's on a grain free diet (though googling showed that cats rarely have grain allergies but most foods are grain free now so it's not an intentional thing) but it might be interesting to try omitting different flavours (what I've read suggests chicken as a common allergen and so on)
His coat seems soft and silky, no sign of scurf, we'll pop him back to the vets if it carries on much longer.
Not sure if it's related but he does like to lick everything - fingers, toys, the sofa, scratching post, alsorts! He isn't showing any other signs of being stressed/distressed as that feels like an obvious thing to rule out.

The finished garden/cat playground - we have some cat grass growing too, in a tub on the lounge windowsill currently 



One of his bald spots


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## NinjaPony (26 August 2020)

That looks like an amazing set up! What a lucky boy, he has really landed on his paws with you.


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## FinnishLapphund (26 August 2020)

I vaguely remember reading something about that kittens that has been taken from their mum too early are more likely to develop an excessive licking behaviour, which doesn't always goes away as they become adults. But Cilla who we found nearly starved to death only around 4 weeks old (we suspect her mum perhaps had been taken by a fox, or been run over on a road), have never had any problem with excessive licking, so it doesn't happen to all kittens who is separated from their mum too early. 
Also, they're like us, sometimes they just develop an unwanted behaviour for no apparent reason. 

Anyhow, Hills d/d is based on duck meat and peas, since they're a bit more expensive ingredients (the duck meat probably more so than the peas) to make a cat food of, they're usually not used in other cat foods, so that is one of the foods you could try if you suspect there is something in his food which he doesn't tolerates. 

I said previously that your enclosure looks great, and after seeing more of it I can only repeat that it looks great! Makes me feel that Cilla's enclosure could need a few improvements, but I'm not sure how I would be able to do them, without it becoming possible for her to climb out of the enclosure (there is no roof on it).


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## Kay Burton (26 August 2020)

He is so handsome. I really like your cat. He looks like an ambitious and serious guy, I usually see guys in a gym. He really looks like them to me. I think he has chosen the right owner. Take good care about him.


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## Shady (26 August 2020)

That's interesting regarding the bald patches Chaps.
 Could be as FL says and he has developed a bit of a habit or had irritation originally to the point that he has damaged the skin etc so bald spots are permanent. It looks quite pink , but clean, I can't see any sore bits.
In an older cat I would check thyroid, an outdoor cat ringworm etc.  With Stanley i'm not sure. It could just be scarring as you've said he's not worrying over them excessively but is possibly over grooming in general . Check again for fleas just in case and then either have a chat to the vet or monitor if he's fine in himself .Yes you could play around with his diet too and see if that makes a difference.  

The patio is fab ! xxx


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## lookingforadvice (30 August 2020)

He’s a really unusual looking cat, hopefully making it more likely someone will recognise him


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## chaps89 (10 September 2020)

So Stanley is staying. (Clearly if an owner ever materialised in the future that would be different)
We have spoken to the kitten breeder today and he was absolutely lovely about it and fine for us to have 1 not 2 kittens. Kittens are 5 weeks old now, so 4 weeks to go until we meet them (and if we meet them and don't like them for any reason he's absolutely fine with us pulling out at that point too) latest pictures, they are very cute! Milky way is no longer Milky way coloured so that name wouldn't work - not that my OH was up for it anyway 😂
I will do a kitten update as and when there is one


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## BeckyFlowers (10 September 2020)

Eeeeeeee!


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## Rumtytum (10 September 2020)

I think Stanley always knew he was staying 😀
Looking forward to kitpics


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## Shady (10 September 2020)

chaps89 said:



			So Stanley is staying. (Clearly if an owner ever materialised in the future that would be different)
We have spoken to the kitten breeder today and he was absolutely lovely about it and fine for us to have 1 not 2 kittens. Kittens are 5 weeks old now, so 4 weeks to go until we meet them (and if we meet them and don't like them for any reason he's absolutely fine with us pulling out at that point too) latest pictures, they are very cute! Milky way is no longer Milky way coloured so that name wouldn't work - not that my OH was up for it anyway 😂
I will do a kitten update as and when there is one 

Click to expand...

You'd better !!!
Can't wait to see them Chaps. Breeder does sound really lovely and that is amazing that he is waiting for you to see them before making a decision . Good man ! xx


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## FinnishLapphund (10 September 2020)

chaps89 said:



			So Stanley is staying. (Clearly if an owner ever materialised in the future that would be different)
We have spoken to the kitten breeder today and he was absolutely lovely about it and fine for us to have 1 not 2 kittens. Kittens are 5 weeks old now, so 4 weeks to go until we meet them (and if we meet them and don't like them for any reason he's absolutely fine with us pulling out at that point too) latest pictures, they are very cute! Milky way is no longer Milky way coloured so that name wouldn't work - not that my OH was up for it anyway 😂
I will do a kitten update as and when there is one 

Click to expand...

Stanley is staying - Woohoo! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





You're (probably) buying a Devon Rex kitten - Yippee! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Thank you so much for your updates, I'm looking forward to hear what happens on the kitten front.


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## chaps89 (10 September 2020)

I think everyone knew Stanley was staying - including him 🙈😂

If you can excuse the mess in the background, his lordship today - apparently it was time for a work break


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## Kay Burton (14 September 2020)

We took our cat from friends. She was at that time 9 months old, but weighed less than 2 kilograms. Two children tortured her, the owners did not feed her well. It was an ugly skeleton. She has been living with us for 3.5 years. In the first year and a half, she grew, began to weigh 4.7 kilograms, overgrown with bald patches, where the hair fell out. Now this plush affectionate miracle makes us happy every day.


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## Meowy Catkin (14 September 2020)

Kay Burton said:



			We took our cat from friends. She was at that time 9 months old, but weighed less than 2 kilograms. Two children tortured her, the owners did not feed her well. It was an ugly skeleton. She has been living with us for 3.5 years. In the first year and a half, she grew, began to weigh 4.7 kilograms, overgrown with bald patches, where the hair fell out. Now this plush affectionate miracle makes us happy every day.
		
Click to expand...

Poor thing, what a sad start to her life. I'm glad that she has a happy home now ad is thriving. Any photos?


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## chaps89 (14 September 2020)

Kay Burton said:



			We took our cat from friends. She was at that time 9 months old, but weighed less than 2 kilograms. Two children tortured her, the owners did not feed her well. It was an ugly skeleton. She has been living with us for 3.5 years. In the first year and a half, she grew, began to weigh 4.7 kilograms, overgrown with bald patches, where the hair fell out. Now this plush affectionate miracle makes us happy every day.
		
Click to expand...

Oh bless her, it sounds like she landed on her feet with you 

Stanley is becoming a couch potato. Too many treats from my OH and not enough exercise. He wobbled his way around the shelves and bridges yesterday. Treats have been cut out and we will be taking him into the garden for climbing each day to try and keep him active. He does have at least one if not two extensive play sessions indoors each day but it was really sad seeing him yesterday given how confident out there he was only a few weeks ago. I'm glad we spotted it though. He seems very happy in himself and doesn't seem to mind sunbathing mind!

Does anyone have any tips for getting him a bit more handle-able?
He's very affectionate and happy to have a head rub on his terms, wrap himself around your legs, or, if you're my OH, curl on the sofa next to you.
But brushing him or petting his body is out and we can't ignore his claws any longer. They're mostly ok, talon like but not curling under (he uses the scratching post regularly) but his front dew claws are too long now - presumably from not using them to climb etc anymore. I'd also like to be a bit more confident running my hands over his body so we can check for lumps and bumps.
He will bite or scratch if he doesn't want to be touched so not looking forwards to this!


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## FinnishLapphund (14 September 2020)

Take out the treat bag again, preferably make your OH start fiddling with his paws when he's on his lap, really quickly at first, maybe some strokes, maybe a quick, loose hold. Then progress to a bit more lengthy, thorough contact, and if Stanley is good, he gets a treat. Also don't do it the whole time, without just a little, and then back to the usual petting.   
Alternatively you can do it, but if Stanley already prefers your OH a bit, you shouldn't have to be the only one at risk of ending up in Stanley's black book. 

I'm afraid that Cilla the cats acceptable amount of combing is around 3 strokes, so usually I try to do my occasional combing of her when she's occupied with eating one of her portions of food. If that trick doesn't work, and she really needs combing, then I do resort to a light grip at the scruff of her neck.

Berta the Cornish Rex doesn't have much fur to comb, but she doesn't mind neither getting groomed with a grooming glove, nor having her nails trimmed.

Cilla is really good with having her claws trimmed, but unlike Berta, she does expect some type of edible reward afterwards. However if we hadn't been able to teach her that, I would have wrapped her in a towel, and just done it whether she liked it or not. 

However Berta needs to be wrapped in a towel, if I need to do more than a quick clean of her ears. Because for some reason, Berta thinks that when it comes to her ears, anything that needs doing should either be done quickly, or not at all. And she will use all her agileness to try her very best to get away before you're done, if you, according to her, takes too long.

Strangely enough, having her ears cleaned is not something Cilla objects much about. Even though she demonstratively folds her ears shut whenever she sees me for a few days afterwards, regardless if I only did a quick check, or a thorough cleaning.


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## Meowy Catkin (14 September 2020)

With our ex-feral/farm cat types we just took it slowly. One loves playing with toys, so we distracted his front end with the toy and then just slowly touched him further back. Just slowly, slowly in small steps but also be confident and not wary. Snatching your hand away can make them swipe just because of the movement. With moving things they can swipe first and look at what it was second as the instinct to go after moving things is so strong. 

Our old siamese stopped sharpening her claws and they grew terribly long because of this. She hated them being clipped (I used nail clippers) so I got the side off a cardboard box ad put a small (cat leg) sized hole in the middle. When she was relaxed I would pop a leg through the hole and hold it firmly (my side of the cardboard so she couldn't bite me) and would clip the claws. I never tried to do all four legs in one session as it would have been too much, I just got as may claws done as she accepted. Keep going with that over a few days ad it's done without upsetting the cat too much until the next time. Do make sure that you don't trim the claws too short as they will bleed.


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## chaps89 (14 September 2020)

Thankyou, there's some good ideas here.
Particularly like kitty burrito (I never successfully managed this with my old cat who was slower and less nimble than Stanley - until it came to giving him his tablets!) But we can re-visit it.
The cardboard box is a great idea too, he loves sitting in boxes so might be fairly easy to execute.
Sounds like it's the same as with horses - repetition and patience with a small dose of firmness


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## FinnishLapphund (14 September 2020)

Reading Meowy Catkin's reply I should perhaps clarify that I don't mean touching his paws quickly, as in you/your OH moving hastily, without only that the length of the first touching shouldn't last for long, before stopping to reward Stanley.


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## Meowy Catkin (14 September 2020)

Another thing you could try (if your cat gets too excited by toys to safely stroke him then) is to stroke him when he's rubbing on your legs, so he's already touching you with his body. I have used leather gloves too as protection during the early stages. I will put my gloved hand out so the cat can get used to the gloves first and slowly progress to stroking the areas of their body that they are happy with first before moving onto the areas that they are less sure with.

Yes, repetition without frightening them is the key. 

*is excited for kitten photos in the future*


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## Kay Burton (15 September 2020)

Meowy Catkin said:



			Poor thing, what a sad start to her life. I'm glad that she has a happy home now ad is thriving. Any photos? 

Click to expand...

Of course, you can take a photo. Here is my beauty.


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## Meowy Catkin (15 September 2020)

Kay Burton said:



			Of course, you can take a photo. Here is my beauty.
		
Click to expand...

Beautiful cat!


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## FinnishLapphund (15 September 2020)

Kay Burton said:



			Of course, you can take a photo. Here is my beauty.
		
Click to expand...

Wow, what a beauty!


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## chaps89 (15 September 2020)

Looook. He sat on my lap all of his own accord.
Ruined it slightly by trying to bite me when I went to stroke him but he's sort of cuddling with me


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## BeckyFlowers (15 September 2020)

Awwww!  His coat is looking lovely in those photos.  Bet he can't believe his luck, finding you.


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## chaps89 (8 October 2020)

Stanley has had a test for feline leukaemia and hiv and is negative which is good news.
He's also had his first vaccination and his nails clipped.
Funnily enough when he went in for the blood test they told us he was well behaved which surprised us slightly.
When I picked him up from having his jab it slipped out that he was a lot better behaved that visit than the last one. Naughty kitty.
In a slightly mean way, it has been quite entertaining watching him adapt to life without talons as claws - he got a bit of a shock the first time he went to the scratching post!

And kittens have had their first vaccine today so we will be able to visit them soon! They are very striking colours now and playful so that is very exciting.

Spying on a cat outside 



Telling me I'm taking too long to get his toys out for play time


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## Amymay (8 October 2020)

I’ve never heard of a cat having it’s nails clipped 🤨


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## HufflyPuffly (8 October 2020)

Amymay said:



			I’ve never heard of a cat having it’s nails clipped 🤨
		
Click to expand...

I clip all of mine from time to time, but the indoor cats get done quite frequently to keep them neat.


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## chaps89 (8 October 2020)

@Amymay it's something we've done with all our cats, even our outdoor ones when we lived somewhere suitable for them to roam. 
Though more of an indoor/house cat thing I think, where they're not naturally wearing them, they can start to curl under if you're not careful and his were getting very long and sharp.
We did cheat and get the vet do it as he was going in anyway and suspect he might be a bit feisty about it.


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## Shady (9 October 2020)

Good news on the tests Chaps
Can't wait to see more pics of the kittens. I am so invested in this thread, lol!

My two gremlins are looking fab too. Exciting times for both of us. I blame you of course for making me seriously start looking again.xxxx


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## HufflyPuffly (9 October 2020)

Right that's two mentions of kittens/ gremlins and no pictures  no fair guys!


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## chaps89 (9 October 2020)

There will be kitten pictures when we visit, I feel a bit bad posting pictures before we've been to see them that's all.
Shady I'm very excited about your gremlins, very happy to take responsibility for that decision


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## chaps89 (11 October 2020)

Today we met our kitten, who is as yet unnamed! I think he might keep us on our toes, but I'm hoping him and Stanley will get on well and enjoy playing together

He's the grumpy looking kitty in the middle


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## ycbm (11 October 2020)

Evil eye!   Are you sure about this 🤣 ?


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## chaps89 (11 October 2020)

🤣 I suspect he'll create plenty of mischief let's put it that way. He was quite unperturbed by us visitors and very happy to play before crashing out for nap time 😻


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## FinnishLapphund (11 October 2020)

I think you should get all of those cuties! Screw the too small home, I'm sure you could get them all in without needing to use a shoehorn.


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## Shady (12 October 2020)

Gorgeous
I know iv'e seen the photo but that was great to see them in a video playing . They look a super size and are clearly full of energy . I would actually say the lilac tabby is the more dominant there. 
I think you are going to have so much fun.........laughs evily and then remembers the gremkitties
Can't wait to see more updates Chaps xxxxxx


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## chaps89 (3 November 2020)

Poor Stanley doesn't like fireworks  he stopped asking for dinner and hid under our bed. Now curled up on my feet bless him. He isn't awful like I've seen/heard some pets can be but definitley isn't a happy bunny (or, more accurately, cat)
My old boy was totally indifferent to them so this is new for me.
Luckily kitten isn't arriving until the weekend as we weren't sure how Stanley would react to fireworks and the breeder said his cats are unbothered and we wanted to make sure kitten had a good first experience/learnt there was nothing to worry about.
We already have Feliways plugged in, in advance of kitten arrival.
For next year are the firework cd's (or presumably some sort of modern equivalent on youtube/Spotify) worth trying for de-sensitisation ahead of firework season?


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## FinnishLapphund (3 November 2020)

Poor Stanley. 

I don't know if my fireworks Dvd + old cassette tape, that I've used to train my bitches, have also helped some of my cats at same time. But they have helped my bitches, some of them more, others less, but they've always made some difference in the right direction.


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## chaps89 (8 November 2020)

Thankyou @FinnishLapphund we shall look into those for next year. Luckily he got better as the week went on which is encouraging.

As yet unnamed kitten is here!
He travelled really well. Took him 10 minutes or so to venture out of the carrier, he cried a little bit then set out exploring and there's been no stopping him since.
Stanley is a bit perturbed about being shut in the lounge but is being a good boy.
A massive thankyou to @Shady who has been so helpful with sharing advice and reassurance









So he's not missed out, Stanley took a while to understand to understand this, now he has no trouble!


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## Meowy Catkin (8 November 2020)

Beautiful kitten!

I love the videos too - clever Stanley.


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## NinjaPony (8 November 2020)

What a cutie! He looks like lots of fun! That toy looks great- do you mind me asking what it’s called? Looks like it would be perfect for entertaining my cat when she arrives!


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## Shady (8 November 2020)

OMG Chaps, he is adorable 
A fellow Gremkitty for sure and already looking really comfortable with you .
Is he blue 'smoke' point Chaps or just blue ? I thought seal before but he definitely looks more  blue there
He's so lovely and i'm really happy for you both. xxxxx

I shall expect regular updates and photo's   xxxxx


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## chaps89 (8 November 2020)

@NinjaPony It's a cat kicker toy. It came from Pets at Home (along with most of the rest of the toys they sell... 🙄😂 ) although I can't seem to see it on their website anymore but there are lots of different ones about.

@Shady You've lost me on the colours I'm afraid 🙈 his papers say lilac point I'm sure, he's what I think of as a traditional Siamese colour but I'm not yet familiar with posh cat colours so you may need to educate me 😂 His body is cream and his ears and tail are grey, his legs are more brown.
His tail in particular is very striking, like it's been dunked in paint! (I wanted to call him dipstick because of it, that then changed to Rodney (only fools and horses reference) but we're not liking that for him so still name searching.

Eta- there are more piccies in the photo thread in club house for those who haven't seen


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## Shady (9 November 2020)

chaps89 said:



@NinjaPony It's a cat kicker toy. It came from Pets at Home (along with most of the rest of the toys they sell... 🙄😂 ) although I can't seem to see it on their website anymore but there are lots of different ones about.

@Shady You've lost me on the colours I'm afraid 🙈 his papers say lilac point I'm sure, he's what I think of as a traditional Siamese colour but I'm not yet familiar with posh cat colours so you may need to educate me 😂 His body is cream and his ears and tail are grey, his legs are more brown.
His tail in particular is very striking, like it's been dunked in paint! (I wanted to call him dipstick because of it, that then changed to Rodney (only fools and horses reference) but we're not liking that for him so still name searching.

Eta- there are more piccies in the photo thread in club house for those who haven't seen 

Click to expand...

Lilac eh? ooh he's a dark one then. Blue or lilac , both are fabulous colours and it matters not a jot anyway , he is perfect and Mr B breeder has done a super job. 
I am so not going to get into colour genetics . I am crap( you need Meowy catkin I reckon) and would have to pore over both parents pedigrees, but for anybody interested in 'smoke' this would be possible if there was silver present in the line and would have to be in one of the parents. Because little 'almost gremkitty' is a solid point he would be a smoke but if he was a tabby point he would be a silver.
DaDah. xxxxx


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## chaps89 (9 November 2020)

Mr B Breeder has done a fab job indeed.
We were worried when we went to collect kitten as he legged it, whereas the one who legged it last time was all over us 🙄 but we're so happy with him, he's a cracker.
I do have a 5 generation full pedigree for him  not that any of it really means much to me in all honesty. One of his pieces of paperwork says lilac tonkinese point, I'm not sure if that makes any difference? I find colours fascinating but it does sadly go over my head once it gets technical. Thankfully for me I just think he's pretty and an unusual colour and that is good enough for me 😂

Poor Stanley isn't loving life, so we're spending lots of time with both cats, playing and just chilling. 

In the meantime I have some interesting videos to share.
He has such odd behaviour with 1 of his toys. And only 1.
First time he showed this behaviour was with a fake mouse on a teaser stick. The mouse came off the stick and he showed very little interest in it then and didn't show the same behaviour.
He then showed the same behaviour with the replacement mouse on a stick and always has done just with that 1 toy.
Today mouse on a stick has gone to kitten (for some scent swapping) and Stanley showed the same behaviour with his feather toy. He loves his feather toy but hasn't ever been like this with it before.
Normally he miaows as well but he wasn't really doing that tonight.
Any thoughts on what he's doing/why? I've never seen a cat do anything like it before.


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## BeckyFlowers (9 November 2020)

Do you mean the bit where he has the feather in his mouth and is walking around with it?  If so then that's similar behaviour to what big cats do with a kill (eg an antelope).  The will pick it up by the neck and walk with the rest of the kill dragging between their front legs.  I suppose domestic cats would also do the same with rabbits, squirrels etc.


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## HufflyPuffly (9 November 2020)

Huffle has done similar with toys she really loves...


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## chaps89 (9 November 2020)

Yeah, when he walks around with it, his back is arched and he sort of humps? It's a very odd movement, not a normal walk and he does it even if he isn't dragging the stick behind him.
Stanley (and Huffle) the lion cat(s) 🦁 😂 glad it's not just him!


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## BeckyFlowers (9 November 2020)

I just watched a YouTube video of a leopard dragging a zebra up a tree


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## crazyandme (10 November 2020)

Izzy does that whilst grumbling. I've always just assumed it's pride from actually catching the toy/prey, as I can always remove it from her without her complaining!


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## Shady (10 November 2020)

chaps89 said:



			Yeah, when he walks around with it, his back is arched and he sort of humps? It's a very odd movement, not a normal walk and he does it even if he isn't dragging the stick behind him.
Stanley (and Huffle) the lion cat(s) 🦁 😂 glad it's not just him!
		
Click to expand...

Yes it's 'his' kill and everybody else had better know that. They get a bit fruity too which you can also see. 
I'd watch the kitten around him if he's in possession of his prey.
You'll find the kitten will do the same thing if he's particularly taken with a certain toy. It's usually fur or feathers but I did have a slinky kitten once who was obsessed with a knitted snake. 
If you find them getting too OTT over any  toy take it away if they are in the same space and best to take away if aggression occurs anyway. 

Those fishing line furry things are brilliant . I use them every single time when I bring newbies into the house but I never leave the cats with them as what you are seeing happens every time. Best for you to hold it and get them both to play with it back and forth, slowly bringing them closer together as time passes. Hold on tight tho as once grabbed the prey instinct kicks in !

On a different note.... You have lilac point Tonkinese in your line! This is a mix of Burmese and Siamese. Actually I can see the mix clearly in the female kitten. and the Siamese in yours. Lovely. 
Actually I might just pull up kitties pedigree just to be nosy !
xx


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## chaps89 (10 November 2020)

Stanley just did it to me. He was on the arm of the sofa, I was on the seat of the sofa next to him.
He'd had a fuss then told me enough was enough so I left him to it. Minute or two later he jumped on me, arched back, biting and chirruping. 
No toys nearby.
He is very unsettled poor chap.

We'll absolutely not be using that toy when kitten is nearby. We have been taking it away when he gets too OTT with it so I'm glad that's the right thing to do.
Kitten has a duck on a string which he loves and he's just mastered running with it in his mouth but no funny walking or noises (yet)

Kitten has woken me up at about 5am both mornings, trying to suckle on me? He was weaned at about 5 and a half weeks the breeder says, and was a greedy guts with the breeder who ate everything.
I've been getting up and giving him a small bit of wet food (he ignores dry) when he does it as it seems to be the only way to stop and I'm presuming he's doing it because he's hungry (as well as maybe after some comfort) is that the right thing to do? I don't really want to be setting myself up for 5am alarm calls forever more 

Shady, I can PM you the pedigree later this morning if you did fancy a look?


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## Shady (10 November 2020)

Stanley has had his house invaded. Some don't mind, most do. Just stay calm and keep giving him lots of attention . I know it's difficult and some can get a bit aggressive with their owners as they rightly blame them for the nasty thing that has arrived in their space. 
It's a time thing with measured kitten interaction . Both will be feeling unsettled.
Kitten is young Chaps and just left the nest. You have a mix of very affectionate but sensitive breeds and they ' need ' more when little.
It's sometimes the price you pay for having such a tactile loving cat when older. He is looking for comfort from you, which is a lovely thing as some hide away and I'm not sure which way is best to handle it though i'd be inclined to give him what he needs for comfort at this stage. He should settle in a few weeks but they do love their owners so I would imagine you may get a kitten hat or scarf if he shares your bedroom !  
 I usually buy 2 and always cage at night when they first arrive for 2/3 weeks , then they go into the general mix of cats and dogs and I leave dried down at night. I don't have them in my bedroom when I sleep as they wake up and play !

Yes I'd like to see the pedigree but only if you have time!  xxxx


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## chaps89 (10 November 2020)

Oh yes, there's absolutely no rush to mix them and I can completely understand Stanley's nose being out of joint.
I would love to have a different room or space for a cage for kitten as I haven't ever found allowing cats to be on the bed to be a way to get a good night's sleep!
Our flat is fairly open plan - entrance into lounge and kitchen, then doorway into the hall which opens into the bedroom and en-suite bathroom.
Stanley is most settled in the lounge, which is why kitten is in with us.
Tbh, mostly he nestles in the crook of my arm or neck and curls up and sleeps so he's no bother, I just feel for him as clearly his attempts to suckle are a bit fruitless but obviously coming from feeling a bit insecure, which is completely understandable.
Mind you, OH did take this video at about 12.30am... I have suggested maybe we don't encourage play time on the bed - although as you can see I am oblivious anyway


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## Shady (10 November 2020)

OMG Chaps he's so adorable. Are you honestly asleep with that little demon jumping everywhere, lol

I'm adding this video for you to see what Robs kitten is like at the moment. I'm pretty certain Vanessa was also asleep before she or her partner  took this!!!!
Hope it works . Romance has the biggest ears iv'e seen in years ,but I have to say your kittens are impressive!



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=672893773219320


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## chaps89 (10 November 2020)

I was absolutely asleep and totally unaware I was being used as a kitten climbing frame 
Oh my gosh, her ears are huge bless her! She's very pretty 😻
Stanley likes to sit and groom you too, he can get a bit dribbly though 🤢😂


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## chaps89 (14 November 2020)

I am one very tired sleep deprived person.
It started at 5am waking me up to suckle. Now it's become 3am. I can settle him then it starts again at 4am.
The only way I can ignore him is to hide completely covered by the duvet and keep it pressed down around me as he's desperate to get in. 
If I move him off me he just keeps coming back.
I wondered if it was because he's hungry so the last 2 days he's had extra food including a very late night feed at after midnight. No difference (other than a very round tummy!)
He never suckles during the day, he's happy and content exploring, playing, cuddling. But during the night he goes frantic trying to suckle me - never my OH.
I gave in last night and came and slept on the sofa, and had the best nights sleep since he arrived, with Stanley cat curled up next to me.

I've googled but can't find advice on anything similar, most people say their cat seems quite calm when they do it but he is frantic and distressed and then I get distressed.

Google suggests this usually happens if they're orphaned/weaned young. He self weaned at 5 and a half weeks onto the adult cats feed. Breeder started him on kitten food but he'd just go and eat the adult food so he just gets kitten vitamin supplements to go with it. He's been on the same food and tablets and 4 feeds a day so same feeding routine since arriving.
He was with mum when they were shut downstairs overnight so it is fully possible that he was still having night time feeds but apparently mum was fairly fed up with them by the time he came to us - he's now 14 weeks so I can't imagine mum still feeding?
We also wondered if it was because he's cold so shut the windows and turned the heating up a bit but that's made no difference (other than for us to feel like we're cooking!)
Anyway, sorry just needed to ramble and get it off my chest as I feel rubbish about it.

In brighter news, kitten now has a name - Frank! We have 2 old men cats 🙈

Obligatory photos!


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## Meowy Catkin (14 November 2020)

Look at them eating by each other, excellent. 

I'm sorry that you are having such issues at night, I've not had that myself so can't suggest a fix. Sorry.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe once the two boys can be together without supervision, things will improve? Our adult male cat used to be a very active 'parent'.


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## BeckyFlowers (14 November 2020)

Do you have Feliway plug-ins going? They may help both of them settle.


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## chaps89 (14 November 2020)

They've been really good, Stanley has done 2 very mild hisses but otherwise they're pretty good next to each other. 
We've been site swapping, we're doing it for a bit longer today and then shall do introductions tonight or tomorrow I think.
Stanley seems more settled today too which is good.

I'm very much hoping they will become friends and not just tolerate each other, and that that will help with night times too. I'm not doing very well on 4 hours sleep a night so I really hope it helps and doesn't take too long! In all other ways it's been going really well, I think it's fair to say it's one problem we never envisaged having though.

We have Feliways plugged in, 1 in each room


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## Blanche (14 November 2020)

I had a litter of kittens come to me with their mum. They would all get around a fluffy cat bed and suckle on it together, around lunchtime everyday. They stopped sometime after they turned one. They had never been separated from mum at all, I think some are just suckers and separation from mum has nothing to do with it.

I find Pet Remedy much better than Feliway. You can get a spray, plug in and wipes. I tend to just use the spray as you can put it exactly where you need it. I have a cat who is funny about the back door so spraying it around it helps. It does smell weird but  don’t really notice it now.


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## FinnishLapphund (14 November 2020)

Only because a behaviour is more likely to occur if a cat/kitten has been weaned early, it doesn't mean other cats/kittens can't do it. Besides, it doesn't happen to all kittens weaned too early either.  

Cilla the moggy was definitely weaned too early. When we found her she was around 4 weeks old, so cold, and starved, that the veterinarian couldn't get a temperature reading on her, because her temperature was lower than their thermometers (they tried 3 different ones) could measure. And that was even though she had been laying next to a hot water bottle since we found her, for around/over 1 hour! 
Her mum had probably been run over, or taken by a fox, but considering that Cilla was truly just skin and bones, it couldn't have happened the day before we found her. Yet, she never suckles on anything. 

Anyhow, I know Shady is probably correct about Frank simply seaking comfort from you, but after 35+ years of cat owning, I have a strong tendency to presume that cat's have a plan with everything they do. 
This thing that Frank frantically tries to get to you, so he can suckle on you in the middle of the night, but doesn't bother your OH, makes me suspicious. I mean, if Frank does it because he needs some comfort in the middle of the night, then when you left to go to sleep in another room, shouldn't he seek that comfort from your OH in your absence?
Could it maybe be that he does it to you, because he senses that you're more likely to put up with being his nighttime entertainment center? And that every time you give in, and gives him attention in the night, tells his stubborn determination that if I only persevere, she will cave-in. 

Regardless of why he does it, instead of turning your bedroom into a sauna, could you perhaps get a hot water bottle, wrap it up in a towel/put it inside a pillow case, and place it next to where Frank likes to sleep. 
Maybe try arranging a fleece blanket over his sleeping spot, so it resembles some type of igloo cat bed. 

Shady's way of letting new cats/kittens in the beginning sleep in a cage over night, sounds like a good option. Trying Pet Remedy, instead of Feliway, as Blanche suggested, might also be a good idea, to see if that works better on Frank.

Or you will simply have to work on your ability to turn your duvet into a cocoon for humans.


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## HashRouge (14 November 2020)

Chaps is he suckling on your PJs? Sorry, not trying to find out if you sleep in the buff 🤣. I ask because our cat (another Stanley) is a suckler but it tends to be on particular materials. If you pick him up wearing a fluffy dressing gown, for instance) he will always try to suckle. So it might be to do with you wearing something that he likes the feel of. Our Stanley is 14 and still suckles, but he was an abandoned kitten and was hand reared from 3 weeks. Usually when he tries to do it I move him gently till he stops and the he always falls asleep, but sounds like that might not work with your chap.


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## Keira 8888 (14 November 2020)

Archangel said:



			He is gorgeous. 

View attachment 52203

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Hahahaaaa! This would def be me!!


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## Kay Burton (16 November 2020)

HashRouge said:



			Chaps is he suckling on your PJs? Sorry, not trying to find out if you sleep in the buff 🤣. I ask because our cat (another Stanley) is a suckler but it tends to be on particular materials. If you pick him up wearing a fluffy dressing gown, for instance) he will always try to suckle. So it might be to do with you wearing something that he likes the feel of. Our Stanley is 14 and still suckles, but he was an abandoned kitten and was hand reared from 3 weeks. Usually when he tries to do it I move him gently till he stops and the he always falls asleep, but sounds like that might not work with your chap.
		
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This happens if the cat has underfed the kitten. Cats also need breast milk in childhood in the right amount. If a kitten is not fully fed by a cat, it may behave strangely throughout its life (sucking on clothes, being very greedy for food, etc.).


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## HashRouge (16 November 2020)

Kay Burton said:



			This happens if the cat has underfed the kitten. Cats also need breast milk in childhood in the right amount. If a kitten is not fully fed by a cat, it may behave strangely throughout its life (sucking on clothes, being very greedy for food, etc.).
		
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Yes this would all make sense, he's quite an odd cat! He and his siblings were found on a rubbish dump at 2-3 weeks old and were very, very ill immediately after being rescued. Two died, 3 survived. He's incredibly affectionate though, lovely boy.


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## Shady (17 November 2020)

Just got back on line after 5 days with no phone
Ok so it's not getting better but worse Chaps. I get the whole wean thing , not enough milk etc, but looking at Franks progress size wise he has never been a kitten depraved of milk at the most important time or food in general. There is a look to kittens that have gone short. This was a first litter from a young healthy cat who was almost certainly producing enough milk for 3 babies, that's a small litter. She was also never taken away from the kittens and although i'm sure she was sick of them hassling her at almost 3 months they would have been topping up past weaning for weeks .
( Bear in mind there's probably British in the mix somewhere and they are pigs. Rex's are known to be greedy and will over eat.)
I'm going to have a chat to my friend Wendy who was a breeder for nearly 40 years. See what she says but I would guess it's still an insecurity thing and in the day it's bright , he's distracted by toys and noise and you guys if you're around , Stanley too, but at night it's quiet  and there's nothing to interact with and no siblings or mum to sleep with . You are the next best thing to mum and you are there  
 I would buy one of those really snugly covered or semi covered beds and cage him at night in the front room with Stanley if nothing else is working. You can't go without sleep.
Something like this 
https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_beds_baskets/cat_dens/cat_dens/37430

I do like the hot water bottle idea in somewhere really cosy so would try that first but I have a feeling that he will still prefer you.
He will grow out of it as he becomes friends with Stanley


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## Shady (18 November 2020)

Just adding a little extra to my above post as I had a message from my go to friend as mentioned above . Direct quote from her as it's easier.
' _  Agree ,don't think little Rex has been deprived, more likely he wasn't weaned from Mum before he left.  Always think it unkind to suddenly take them away from their mother and send them off to a new home all in a matter of hours.  I'm afraid the 'suckling' behaviour is his only source of comfort for now.  Not sure how long he's been in residence but as long as he's eating, using his tray etc., it would be better to give him a cosy bed at night-time and leave him be.  I'm really not that au fait with the breed and you do get the odd kitten that is OTT .  Yep, expect he'll be a right pain for the first few nights/weeks but worth it in the end.  Didn't the breeder provide a blanket from home to help him settle?_ '

I don't know if this helps you Chaps but I think he's going to need a little more time to settle at night . Bit like puppies really, some aren't bothered and some cry all night.  xxxxx


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## chaps89 (18 November 2020)

Sorry to have gone quiet, I was sleep deprived and changing jobs and haven't had any head space for reading your helpful replies and taking them in.

He has a covered bed, but both cats ignore it. However he does like to sleep under the duvet. Not sure I love this!

He came with a pillowcase that smelt of them, I like the hot water bottle idea too.

He is very greedy/hungry - he gets 2 trays of wet food a day (split between 4 meals) and the occasional handful of dry food that he gobbles up. Side question - at what point do we wean him onto bigger, less frequent meals?

I have started sleeping with a long sleeved top on which seems to have helped, also I'd get out of bed to just give a clean walk away and that seemed to break him out of it.
Last night we both slept through for the first time. I really really hope it wasn't a one off! If not I really think we'll look into a little cage and bed for him at night time.

We had successful introductions between the cats on Sunday.
We'd done lots of site swapping, scent swapping and they were eating happily alongside each other either side of the curtain.
All went well Sunday and Monday with some nice playtime and the odd snuggle with each other, but Tuesday we hadn't played with Frank enough and he just kept going at Stanley who started hissing at him and he kept going back for more. I know a bit of hissing is to be expected but Frank was being too big for his boots and ignoring the leave me alone signals that Stanley was giving out
So we have split them up again and will go back a few steps.


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## chaps89 (19 November 2020)

He didn't sleep through the night last night.
BUT he didn't try and suckle, he was just mewing and purring loudly/being a bit active and very hungry, despite a decent sized handful of biscuits at midnight.

As an aside, I don't advise playing peek a boo with a feisty kitten behind the curtains. I should have known better, I got well and truly 'got'!


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## Shady (20 November 2020)

Well that's a bit better Chaps. You will get there!
 I'm surprised you still have curtains if you had 2 they'd be swinging from them for sure!

Regarding food. I hate advising on food intake as I can't see him, but he's growing rapidly now and I have to be honest I always leave a bowl of really good kitten munchies down for youngsters and then give 3 meals a day. Quantity varies but I guess 1 pouch 3 times a day of something like Royal Canin kitten, Concept for Life  or Felix kitten. ( not the best I know ) or I buy the little tins of Animonda Carny and use maybe 1-11/2 a day and gradually increase to 2.  
I would probably up his dried intake Chaps if you are only giving the odd handful. Also if he's got  good solid poos I add chicken or / and fish periodically.
When to change is also difficult and personal to each cat or person. I always give 3 meals a day. The last being just before I go to sleep after giving the horses their hay.  Cats are rounded up and they get 2 pouches divided by 3 cats and a bowl of munchies left down.


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## chaps89 (23 November 2020)

He climbs everything but the curtains! He is well established at being a shoulder cat now too, and is a quick learner - 'off' has, touch wood, been established in a day or two!

I'm not sure if I think you are a genius for getting 2 so that they can play with each other, and therefore tire themselves out, or if you're just a little bit mad 

His breeder was right when he warned us he is a greedy grubster. He eats anything! He is learning manners about not scrounging when we eat but I think that one might take a while to stick! 3 meals a day is feasible, it's the lunchtime one that can be a bit hit & miss depending on work.

We separated them for a few days then re-introduced them.
Poor Stanley! I think Frank is boss already. We were all snoozing happily on the sofa earlier, Frank climbed over to Stanley, I'm thinking how cute, he's gone for a cuddle. Oh no, the little horror just started biting Stanley  quite hard and persistent too.
We made a box for Stanley so he has a safe space to escape Frank - he's terrified of it and Frank loves it, of course! We've also put cat furniture up on the walls, Frank is quite fond of climbing so that's been a success.

Anyway, there's not been enough photos I don't think so here you go:


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## Shady (23 November 2020)

Oh I love him, he is fabulous.
All sounding perfectly normal Chaps 
Honestly you are doing really well and although I obviously feel sorry for Stanley as fierce kittens are harder work you are all making good progress and they will be friends for sure. No way would any of my grown up cats have tolerated a kitten hanging off their necks and the fluffies I have  are soft as hell. Stanley is a star.

Food situation  is normal too in that he wants what you have. I have had some that try and  get on the plate , literally swipe the food off and one Siamese had to go in another room and would hang off the door handle trying to get back in........it passes in a few months.
He is looking great weight wise. Just leave extra dried down when you're at work.

Iv'e now got the date for pick up of my two Chaps. It's on the 3rd of December
I am of course completely mad when it comes to cats but 2 kittens are easier for sure,  they can however do an enormous amount of damage zooming around !
I am starting to remove certain items but in reality most of my stuff has been stuck back together more times than I can count and my once beautiful Italian dresser is beyond hope! 

Please keep the photo's coming . I know i'm not the only one who loves to see them . xxxxxx


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## chaps89 (27 November 2020)

Trouble



I nearly decapitated the poor creature the other day  lifted the mattress to tuck the bed sheet under, unbeknownst to me, he was under the bed and stuck his head up between the slats and I obviously put the mattress down and he was stuck. Thankfully he's vocal and let me know what I had done very quickly so no harm done, but goodness me, heart stopping moment.

We are now alternating, one in the lounge and 1 in the bedroom, we swap which cat goes where each night.
Frank still doesn't sleep through if he's in the bedroom but seems to settle if he's in the lounge.
They are getting on ok, but whereas we could distract Frank from Stanley initially, now Stanley is far too exciting and it's hard to keep Frank interested in a toy if he's getting boisterous. Stanley occasionally wants to play but would mostly be happy to groom Frank and cuddle. Frank then gets quite bitey and it escalates but he goes back for more. 
I feel bad, I wanted Stanley to have a play mate and I adore Frank but I feel like we've just caused alot of upset so far, I sort of thought almost 3 weeks in we might be able to leave them unattended together by now, but maybe that was optimistic?
I suspect his little boy bits may come off a bit sooner than we had originally hoped/planned to see if that calms him down too (not till just before Christmas so he'll be almost 5 months by then?)


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## chaps89 (27 November 2020)

Shady said:



			Iv'e now got the date for pick up of my two Chaps. It's on the 3rd of December
		
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Oh how very exciting. Has Romance remained Romance or has she had a name change? Really looming forwards to your photos. 
Luckily we don't have anything as remotely nice as an Italian dresser for Frank to destroy, but you sound very calm about the impending chaos!


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## FinnishLapphund (28 November 2020)

Someone said it took 6 weeks for their old cat to accept the newbie.
With the exception of when my first puppy arrived, and we had 3 adult cats, one of them was not only very territorial, she also hated dogs, so we split some rooms in two with puppy pen net, puppy on one side, cats on the other, and had it like that for about 5, or 6 weeks I think, other than that time, new puppies usually from day one spends their time partly free indoors, partly in a puppy pen, and I have to admit that usually new cats/kittens in our house spends max 3 days partly separated from the rest, and after that we just let them get on with it. 

When Berta the Cornish Rex came, it took 3 days before she stopped attacking the 2 bitches whenever she saw them, who would have happily allowed her to be an honorary dog, but she could not fathom why the 2 moggies didn't instantly love her. I think Berta nearly developed stomach ulcers while she for several months kept trying to sleep cuddled up with the moggies, and both the moggies kept telling her that even though they could play a little, around ½ a metre away was their minimum acceptable level of sleeping close to another cat.
I think we took Berta to the veterinarian 2 or 3 times, and came home with stomach medicine. We kept thinking 'How stupid can she be, certainly now she must understand that No means No', but the answer was very stupid/stubborn, and she kept trying on, and off, for months.

Basically, I think that Stanley wants to groom, and cuddle with Frank, and sometimes play with him, sounds extremely positive. Hopefully Frank calms down a bit on the play front.


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## Shady (28 November 2020)

I agree with FL regarding Stanley and Franks relationship at the moment. Very positive and I would be pleased with it after only 3 weeks.
Don't feel bad Chaps. Frank is just a baby and wants to play . If Stanley really resented him, you would know, trust me. They will be friends when Frank calms down. He's just being a normal Rex kitten . 
5 months is fine for castration if that's what you want to do. x


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## Shady (28 November 2020)

chaps89 said:



			Oh how very exciting. Has Romance remained Romance or has she had a name change? Really looming forwards to your photos.
Luckily we don't have anything as remotely nice as an Italian dresser for Frank to destroy, but you sound very calm about the impending chaos!
		
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I gave up worrying too much about my possessions years ago!.  I'd prefer it if they didn't trash the tv or laptop but the rest of my furniture ( bar a few antiques) was past it's best after the first Siamese double act joined the household 30 years ago.
I was about 18/19 when I visited a Siamese rescue and  I can still close my eyes and see this wonderful old woman in this exquisite country cottage surrounded by dozens of Siamese cats. Every bit of furniture was damaged in some way and everywhere you looked there was a cat staring at you. She just didn't care . I remember thinking , oh my bloody god, look at that once priceless coffer and those gorgeous shredded curtains. LOL, I should have known better than to think my house would escape such carnage ! 

 Just to add I don't encourage cats scratching furniture, wallpaper  and breaking everything in sight, but sometimes, no matter how many rules you try and put in place and how many activity centers you buy, there is nothing that stops a couple of Orientals when they are on a roll! 

I think Romance will become Rosie.  x


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## horseman1985 (29 November 2020)

What a cutie!


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## Crazy_cat_lady (30 November 2020)

Oh look at the little Seal Point! Glad to hear their relationship is going as smoothly as it can, Gary aka the Vile Alley Cat had his little boy bits removed between 4 and 5 months as I was getting a little girl kitten so didn't want any potential "incidents!"

Any more photos?


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## chaps89 (9 December 2020)

Shady said:



			I gave up worrying too much about my possessions years ago!.  I'd prefer it if they didn't trash the tv or laptop but the rest of my furniture ( bar a few antiques) was past it's best after the first Siamese double act joined the household 30 years ago.
I was about 18/19 when I visited a Siamese rescue and  I can still close my eyes and see this wonderful old woman in this exquisite country cottage surrounded by dozens of Siamese cats. Every bit of furniture was damaged in some way and everywhere you looked there was a cat staring at you. She just didn't care . I remember thinking , oh my bloody god, look at that once priceless coffer and those gorgeous shredded curtains. LOL, I should have known better than to think my house would escape such carnage !

Just to add I don't encourage cats scratching furniture, wallpaper  and breaking everything in sight, but sometimes, no matter how many rules you try and put in place and how many activity centers you buy, there is nothing that stops a couple of Orientals when they are on a roll!

I think Romance will become Rosie.  x
		
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Rosie is such a lovely name 
We have voiles on the windows as well as curtains. Luckily the curtains are still intact, the voiles are suffering a bit now though!
This is the first year we have space for a Christmas tree as 1 of the drum kits is at a friend's, but I have refrained as I can't see it lasting very long 😳

He has learnt to jump on the kitchen counters. Not by jumping on them, but by climbing up the oven gloves which hang on the oven door handle. Monkey or cat?!

I think we are getting there. They curl up and sleep together alot now. Frank is getting better at leaving Stanley alone now if he doesn't want to play and better at subjecting himself for a groom. 
Stanley loves to groom us all - for Frank it's usually his ears, and, um, his bottom that get cleaned 🤢

He now knows that scrounging isn't allowed and can stay in the room whilst we eat but we've not quite mastered feeding them in the same room yet - they would both rather eat the others food 🙄






Stanley's turn for clean ears



He's very good at keeping me company and snuggling whilst I work


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## Meowy Catkin (9 December 2020)

Fabulous update!  They like each other!


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## Sussexbythesea (9 December 2020)

chaps89 said:



			Rosie is such a lovely name 
We have voiles on the windows as well as curtains. Luckily the curtains are still intact, the voiles are suffering a bit now though!
This is the first year we have space for a Christmas tree as 1 of the drum kits is at a friend's, but I have refrained as I can't see it lasting very long 😳

He has learnt to jump on the kitchen counters. Not by jumping on them, but by climbing up the oven gloves which hang on the oven door handle. Monkey or cat?!

I think we are getting there. They curl up and sleep together alot now. Frank is getting better at leaving Stanley alone now if he doesn't want to play and better at subjecting himself for a groom.
Stanley loves to groom us all - for Frank it's usually his ears, and, um, his bottom that get cleaned 🤢

He now knows that scrounging isn't allowed and can stay in the room whilst we eat but we've not quite mastered feeding them in the same room yet - they would both rather eat the others food 🙄






Stanley's turn for clean ears
View attachment 60785


He's very good at keeping me company and snuggling whilst I work
View attachment 60786

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Just adorable 🥰.


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## Shady (9 December 2020)

What a fantastic update Chaps. Just perfect. I was pretty confident that all would be well between them but seeing them together like that has really made me smile. So happy for you all. It's a really nice feeling when things pan out between cats
Both are gorgeous but I do have a super soft spot for Frank as he's clearly an excellent  gremkitty xxxxx


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## BeckyFlowers (9 December 2020)

Lovely update, well done on all your hard work getting them to like each other!


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## chaps89 (19 January 2021)

Figured an update might be due 

So Frank has had his little boy bits snipped. Bounced back fine and you'd never know any different - my OH on the other hand was completely traumatised by it all! He (Frank, not OH!) Is growing like a weed and now weighs 2.2kg and is all legs. If anyone has any tips for keeping him off the kitchen counters please do share, I've never had a cat quite so brazen about it.

Stanley has had a referral vet appointment to have his heart checked after the local vets picked up a murmur, luckily there's nothing to worry about. He's on a proper exclusion diet now as poor thing does not stop grooming himself and still has sores. It sadly isn't agreeing with his tummy very well though so we will have to see how that goes.
He's just starting to come out of his shell and is back to sitting on OH lap in the last week or so (still won't sit with me. He does now tolerate a daily cuddle for about 30 seconds though.)

And of course, photos


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## FinnishLapphund (19 January 2021)

Both of them look gorgeous! Sorry to hear about that the problem with Stanley's over grooming continues, but zero sympathy for OH's boy bits snipping trauma (okay, I admit, I giggled at reading it).

About the kitchen counter, after over 35 years of cat owning, I will readily admit that I consider it a success when we've managed to teach our cats to avoid the kitchen counter when people is in that room. Most of them avoided/avoids the kitchen counter also at other times, because they didn't like that when they've gotten caught on it, they were shouted at.

But with a few, like Berta, it went in one ear, and out the other. If nobody was in the room, and she smelled something interesting... In fact, with Berta it was enough that she spotted a mug, cup, or glass with fluid inside it, for her to want to try sticking down a paw, or her head, to try drinking from it.

I also tried rattling a can with pebbles/something inside, and squirting her with water, which made her jump down, but maybe an hour later we could sit in the living room, and hear her be up on/jump down from the kitchen counter again.
Smell deterrents only worked as long as the smell deterrent was there (citrus, red pepper).

Covering the counter with sticky tape never seemed like a good idea, because how are you then going to be able to use it some hours later? 
Wrapping with aluminium foil is something that has worked best for me when we had a cat that started to pee outside the litter box (the aluminium supposedly makes the pee squirt up on them, which clean cats dislikes), so I didn't bother trying that either.

The last suggestion which I've heard about in later years, is putting them in a time-out for 20 minutes in for example the bathroom. Perhaps I'll try that if I get a new cat like Berta one day.

Fingers crossed, hope you get on top of Stanley's over grooming soon.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (20 January 2021)

FinnishLapphund said:



			Both of them look gorgeous! Sorry to hear about that the problem with Stanley's over grooming continues, but zero sympathy for OH's boy bits snipping trauma (okay, I admit, I giggled at reading it).

About the kitchen counter, after over 35 years of cat owning, I will readily admit that I consider it a success when we've managed to teach our cats to avoid the kitchen counter when people is in that room. Most of them avoided/avoids the kitchen counter also at other times, because they didn't like that when they've gotten caught on it, they were shouted at.

But with a few, like Berta, it went in one ear, and out the other. If nobody was in the room, and she smelled something interesting... In fact, with Berta it was enough that she spotted a mug, cup, or glass with fluid inside it, for her to want to try sticking down a paw, or her head, to try drinking from it.

I also tried rattling a can with pebbles/something inside, and squirting her with water, which made her jump down, but maybe an hour later we could sit in the living room, and hear her be up on/jump down from the kitchen counter again.
Smell deterrents only worked as long as the smell deterrent was there (citrus, red pepper).

Covering the counter with sticky tape never seemed like a good idea, because how are you then going to be able to use it some hours later?
Wrapping with aluminium foil is something that has worked best for me when we had a cat that started to pee outside the litter box (the aluminium supposedly makes the pee squirt up on them, which clean cats dislikes), so I didn't bother trying that either.

The last suggestion which I've heard about in later years, is putting them in a time-out for 20 minutes in for example the bathroom. Perhaps I'll try that if I get a new cat like Berta one day.

Fingers crossed, hope you get on top of Stanley's over grooming soon.
		
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I'd also love to know how to stop a cat counter surfing! My parents ragdolls do it but they at least have the decency to mostly just sit on the side telling you to feed them (apart from when Poppy lifted the mesh cover my mum had put over the freshly cooked gammon and made off with it!!!!!)

AC however is terrible for it, he's been known to jump up as you're in the middle of chopping chicken etc, diving under your arm. How he hasn't ended up as sliced as the chicken as I instinctively wave my arm which is holding a sharp knife ill never know!

You CANNOT leave ANY food on the side unattended or AC will be there. Hes especially partial to uncooked pasta and brocoli!

We tried foil, AC showed complete and utter contempt for it, walking all over it and knocking it to the floor

What I've found "helps" is an empty wrapping paper cardboard tube that the rolls of wrapping paper come on. I will smack the side with it (as yes sometimes bop AC with it, before anyone says I'm an evil vile cat abuser it does not hurt I've smacked myself with it before) and drive AC from the kitchen. I call it my Cat Stick

AC now rarely enters the kitchen if I'm in there cooking, unless I open a tin as it sounds like cat food, instead he sits just behind the door bar, relatively meek and cowed

Interesting re "time outs" I have been known to march up to the loo with him tucked under my arm, and he gets to sit shut in the bathroom with me while I pee 

He respects OH far less and is in there constantly trying to jump up- I walked in as he was leaning back to leap, shouted no, AC scarpered! Whether it's because OH feeds them (AC actually made me cry last time I fed them as I was trying to get ready for work, tried to do it in the fridge as AC jumps leaps up on the counter and dives into the tin and I worry about him slicing his mouth open) and AC got his hands on the end of the fridge and pulled the bowl to the floor, PD is on different food which doesn't agree with his tummy so I'm trying to pick up the food, deal with the empty tin and keep PD back all while needing to go to work!!) However I like to believe its respect for me that he doesn't enter while I cook.

As soon as you're out the kitchen AC is back on the unit. I'll sometimes get up to drive him off but I'd never sit down otherwise so just give up if I'm not in the kitchen

Chaps, Frank's fur looks like it's really starting to curl, what does it feel like? I also had no sympathy for AC on removal of boy bits! Is he noisy like a siamese or are they quite quiet?


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## Sussexbythesea (20 January 2021)

To be honest I’ve never bothered trying to keep them off the counter. It’s a losing stressful battle. I never prepare food directly on the counter anyway I use a board and have multiple ones. A bottle of spray bleach and a cloth kept handy can quickly go over counters to keep them hygienic. 

Never poisoned myself or anyone else.


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## Rumtytum (20 January 2021)

Crazy_cat_lady said:



			I'd also love to know how to stop a cat counter surfing! My parents ragdolls do it but they at least have the decency to mostly just sit on the side telling you to feed them (apart from when Poppy lifted the mesh cover my mum had put over the freshly cooked gammon and made off with it!!!!!)

AC however is terrible for it, he's been known to jump up as you're in the middle of chopping chicken etc, diving under your arm. How he hasn't ended up as sliced as the chicken as I instinctively wave my arm which is holding a sharp knife ill never know!

You CANNOT leave ANY food on the side unattended or AC will be there. Hes especially partial to uncooked pasta and brocoli!

We tried foil, AC showed complete and utter contempt for it, walking all over it and knocking it to the floor

What I've found "helps" is an empty wrapping paper cardboard tube that the rolls of wrapping paper come on. I will smack the side with it (as yes sometimes bop AC with it, before anyone says I'm an evil vile cat abuser it does not hurt I've smacked myself with it before) and drive AC from the kitchen. I call it my Cat Stick

AC now rarely enters the kitchen if I'm in there cooking, unless I open a tin as it sounds like cat food, instead he sits just behind the door bar, relatively meek and cowed

Interesting re "time outs" I have been known to march up to the loo with him tucked under my arm, and he gets to sit shut in the bathroom with me while I pee

He respects OH far less and is in there constantly trying to jump up- I walked in as he was leaning back to leap, shouted no, AC scarpered! Whether it's because OH feeds them (AC actually made me cry last time I fed them as I was trying to get ready for work, tried to do it in the fridge as AC jumps leaps up on the counter and dives into the tin and I worry about him slicing his mouth open) and AC got his hands on the end of the fridge and pulled the bowl to the floor, PD is on different food which doesn't agree with his tummy so I'm trying to pick up the food, deal with the empty tin and keep PD back all while needing to go to work!!) However I like to believe its respect for me that he doesn't enter while I cook.

As soon as you're out the kitchen AC is back on the unit. I'll sometimes get up to drive him off but I'd never sit down otherwise so just give up if I'm not in the kitchen

Chaps, Frank's fur looks like it's really starting to curl, what does it feel like? I also had no sympathy for AC on removal of boy bits! Is he noisy like a siamese or are they quite quiet?
		
Click to expand...

Your ‘time outs’ with AC in the loo made me laugh 😂!


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## Shady (20 January 2021)

Pft to keeping cats off the worktops. Can't be arsed anymore after 35 years of trying because my mum nagged and  nagged about how unhygienic it was. Bless her she looked after them when I had about 8 and had to go abroad suddenly with work. She was completely traumatised from constantly finding them sprawled out on the worktops or hanging off the sides of the gas boiler and freezer. Think she emptied the local shop of Dettol spray!

Frank is looking amazing. He is as beautiful as I knew he would be and i'm delighted that him and Stanley are good friends. Yay to the bits coming off too.

Sorry to read he's been over grooming still Chaps. Is he still flaky? you mentioned his heart and if I put that with his coat/ grooming issue I would check his thyroid just to be on the safe side or at the least run it past your vet. 
 Out of interest what is he eating? there are so many choices now, perhaps try another. 
I know from experience that sometimes it can take a long frustrating  time to get diet right. Iv'e got one that can't tolerate fish and one that absolutely can't eat fresh chicken. 

Anyway both are looking lovely and I admit that every time I see Frank I really want a Rex too to add to my Gremkitties.
I'll do an update tomorrow on them.
Thanks for yours . I love seeing them xxx


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## chaps89 (24 January 2021)

Oh gosh, I'm not sure I could cope if he was on the counter all the time or whilst we were doing food prep 
He just seems to like exploring, he has lots of cat furniture all up the walls but no surface is safe! It does sound like @Crazy_cat_lady has nailed it with AC though.
But I think Frank is like Berta - in one ear out the other!

Frank's coat is softer/thicker now than it used to be but he's more fuzzy I'd say, whereas Stanley is really soft.

He isn't actually very vocal unless it's tea time. You can  have a conversation with him then! The rest of the time he's usually quite quiet.

Frank now comes to call and plays fetch (we're working on the retrieve part, he's not got that bit yet!) He's a smart cookie for sure.

Stanley was on a single source of protein hypoallergenic diet (lamb based) but that made no difference so the vets suggested we try one of the hydralised diets so he's on Hills z/d at the moment.
His skin and coat actually seem very good, no flakiness and he doesn't seem overly itchy, he just doesn't stop grooming himself (or Frank, or us, or anything else soft that stays long enough for him to groom!) And he has his sores on his front legs still. Although bizarrely he doesn't seem to overly groom those.
I will keep thyroid in mind, thankyou.

Here's a bit of Sunday morning fun. I swear we are worse at pets at home than most horsey people in tack shops. I went in for some food this morning as I was a bit late doing the online order, and somehow came out with (another) new toy.





This was last week. OH made a cat box as a safe space for Stanley to get away from Frank. Well I don't think I've ever seen Stanley in it and OH finally gave in and took the microchip cat flap off so Frank can use it and it now forms part of his obstacle course. Or as per this video, stealth attacks. Excuse the mess on the table. I'm not sure why the video is fuzzy either, sorry.


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## Shady (24 January 2021)

. Looking good Chaps xx
Rob now wants one of those toys for the Grems AND a Rex ( his mum used to breed Cornish Rex). 

I spent ages the other day making a 3 box activity center for mine and they are having so much fun with it, however the most fun they seem to have is seeing how fast they can go from the cat litter box in our old bedroom, down the hall, through the kitchen and into the front room where they fly up the stairs and into the attic which runs the whole length of the house. Right to the end they go , onto the bed, fly off the other side and back as fast as possible to the starting point . Little monkeys !


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## chaps89 (24 January 2021)

Well Mr Banjaks has another litter on the way... 
I definitely don't think I can see life without a Devon in it anymore, I adore him (and Stanley too of course. But Stanley is very much my OH cat, Frank is an attention whore so anyone will do, though I do seem to be his human 😂 ) 

It sounds like yours are having great fun and that you've got a fab house for them to tear about in!

Stanley had a go. I'm so happy. He was so playful when he arrived and really shut down when Frank came so it's lovely to see him getting his personality back. (Excuse me doing laundry in the background!)


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## Cloball (24 January 2021)

My old boy used to compulsively clean until his toe beans were red and angry as a stress response when his pal died. It did settle eventually but he was always cleaning weird things ... Your hand, the sofa, his new friend he adopted.  I also have a maladaptive grooming response so I can relate 🤣 like owner like pet.


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## FinnishLapphund (3 April 2021)

I can't make up my mind about if you're just another spam bot @vadega85 , posting a link to a Cat training guide you have to pay to get access to, or if you're really a human who just happened to make a first post that sounded exactly like something a spam bot could post.

I strongly suspect the first, but just in case it's the later, this is a friendly reminder that adding a bit more info showing you've actually read through the thread, and making a few more replies on this, and other threads would help making people realise that you're not a spam bot only trying to advertise/promote something.


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## Spirit2021 (15 April 2021)

He probably a wild cat


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