# Bates saddles, any good?



## coen (12 December 2010)

I had a saddle fitter out yesterday and he fitted a bates elevation saddle to my horse. 
The saddle was very comfy but in comparison to my fairfax dressage saddle it doesn't look to be of the same quality.
I am also concerned about the cair system, although fitter assured me it is a combination of foam and air and wouldn't have any negative effect.

Does anyone have a bates do you like them, do you think they are worth the money?


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## bigboyrocky (12 December 2010)

I have a bates caprilli (cair and interchangable gullet) and like it, however i dont like thier VSD/GP/Jump saddles... havent seen any of their other DR saddles though so cant comment


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## Eventerchick (12 December 2010)

have had a Bates jump and dressage for years and really like them. Have held up to a lot of use on a professional yard on a number of horses, goes on a variety of horses (which I knows is less than ideal) and has never made anything sore, and had fussy horses happy in them. Really good value for money and the dressage saddles seem to hold you in really well. Never has any problems with cair. Hope that helps!


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## OneInAMillion (12 December 2010)

When we were looking at saddles for FH the saddler put on a GP but a leather version of it, apparently the leather they have only just started doing. Saddler says  they will fit any horse, any rider. I sat on it before putting it on FH and hated it saddler said well give it ago on FH and amazingly he couldn't get it to fit him at all, whichever V shaped thing he put in. (sorry the name escapes me)



ETA- I meant gullet!


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## silver zaanif (12 December 2010)

i love mine....


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## jrp204 (12 December 2010)

My daughter has the momentum and the isabell werth and loves them both.


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## TarrSteps (12 December 2010)

OneInAMillion said:



			When we were looking at saddles for FH the saddler put on a GP but a leather version of it, apparently the leather they have only just started doing.
		
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The Bates have always and only been leather.  You might be thinking of Wintec which are the same overall company and have the same gullet system, although they've only ever been synthetic.  I'm not sure if they're built on the same tree (they certainly didn't used to be but times change) but I don't find the Wintecs feel/ride the same as the Bates anyway.

Personally, I've had decent luck with them and quite like them, in part because the close contact models suit me.  I don't think the gullet means they fit *every* horse though, and I think they got a bad rap because so many people (including saddlers) seemed to think they do then buyers got annoyed when they didn't.  I've found them most useful for the same horse needing small adjustments in width, although widening them does change the "scoop" of the tree somewhat so that's not guaranteed.  

Over all, I found them decent quality for the money.

CAIR is a bit tricky.  The vast majority of horses don't seem to care much either way BUT I've had a few that genuinely seemed to dislike it.  I have the sense I haven't liked the feel of them as much as the more traditionally stuffed models but then I don't know if I'd have thought that if I hadn't known what I was sitting on.


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## NR99 (12 December 2010)

Have had mine fo 4 years, personally hate it and everyone that sits in it does too!  However due to my mares extreme change of bodyshape between winter and summer I have it to suit her.  She's 18 now and drops a lot in the winter.


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## kirstyhen (12 December 2010)

I have a Wintec Close Contact and a Wintec Dressage(I know they're not a Bates) with Cair.
I absolutely love it, and my horse has always gone well in them. My close contact saddle is my security blanket, hate riding in anything else now.


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## mil1212 (12 December 2010)

I have a bates close contact, a bates innova and a bates gp, so, you can tell I am a bit of a fan!  For the money, I think they are definately good value, and certainly fit my boys and me well. The close contact is my favourite, but then I do prefer jumping...!  The gp is comfy too, but the cantle annoys me when I am jumping (it's quite high). Am not bothered either way by the Cair.


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## TheoryX1 (12 December 2010)

Love my VSD.  Mini TX has a Bates Innova dressage saddle and she loves that as well.


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## MegaBeast (12 December 2010)

I have a Bates Momentum that I've had for two years and it still looks like new inspite of a lot of use in all conditions (except that most of the suede has worn off the seat and knee pads).  I think they fit horses with banana backs better than those with flat backs so to generalise more likely to fit the TB type than the WB.  Is the most comfortable and secure saddle I've ever ridden in but if you're a fan of big knee rolls then you probably wouldn't like them.

So far as Cair goes it's meant to limit pressure points, don't know that my horse notices but she seems to go better in than she does in my Albion dressage saddle but that may just be because she associates the Bates with fun!

ETA after reading mil1212's comment that I find the cantle on my Momentum is actually quite low and no problem with sitting right back over drops xc.


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## ofcourseyoucan (12 December 2010)

i have 2 close contact bates and love them. very comfey and the horses go very well in them. personally i prefer my very old stubben parzivals but they dont fit all!


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (12 December 2010)

i have the Innova but had the cair gutted and flock added because i dont trust cair and Bruce hates is, so i didnt want to risk it with CS.

am looking to get either another Innova or a new wintec pro for Bruce and will get the flock version/cair gutted again, think Cair is hard and bouncy and makes them sore.


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## Tnavas (13 December 2010)

coen said:



			I had a saddle fitter out yesterday and he fitted a bates elevation saddle to my horse. 
The saddle was very comfy but in comparison to my fairfax dressage saddle it doesn't look to be of the same quality.
I am also concerned about the cair system, although fitter assured me it is a combination of foam and air and wouldn't have any negative effect.

Does anyone have a bates do you like them, do you think they are worth the money?
		
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They are really lovely saddles, well made and of good quality leather. Some of the cheaper range are made of a mixture of real and synthetic leather. 

I have had several over the past 20 years, I had them for my own competition horses and also bought any 2nd hand ones for my school horses. The interchangeable gullet allows it to be fitted to most horses and the shape places the rider in a good position.


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## georgiegirl (13 December 2010)

I have the bates momentum too and absolutely LOVE it. I went to this from an albion k2 jumping saddle which had HUGE knee blocks and I must say I ride 100 times better in the momentum. 

When I can afford one I'm hoping to have a sit on an innova dressage saddle and see what thats like!


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## flyingfeet (13 December 2010)

To my knowledge all Bates saddles sold in the UK are all leather. The Collegiate brand also made by weatherbeeta are possibly a mixture and then Wintec is all synthetic and made on the same trees as the Bates saddles. 

If the tree shape suits your horse then they are really good saddles and hold their value (probably the best for high second hand prices) 

Granted if your horse demands a very flat tree, you are going to struggle, however the newer elevation and innova are slightly less shaped and now use shims to alter the fit as well as the gullet adjustment for width. 

I've just acquired two bates stock saddles, which are like hens teeth in the UK, as weatherbeeta decided that the UK only wants synthetic ones! Interestingly one is made in Vietnam and is a much softer leather than the Aussie made one.

Frankly cair is nothing like flair, and I've never really noticed much difference and just think its a good method of flocking a saddle with something that won't compact over time (oh and for those with the hard crisp bag analogy, the cair units are not "full", so therefore that is often scaremongering)


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## Lisamd (13 December 2010)

I have 2 x Bates cross country CC saddles and a Bate Innova Dressage and i really like them. They seem to fit everything and i have never had them fitted by a saddler. None of my boys have sore backs (they are seen every 6 months for their backs or in-between if i feel they are not right). They are easy to change width and seem to be suitable for all competitions, i've done eventing, workers, show hunter, sj and hunting in mine and they stand up well. Cair is fine, although i did have new air panels put in my old jumping saddle as they had moved and formed a ridge, but that was a good 7 years or so ago. All in all, a good saddle


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## charlie76 (13 December 2010)

whereabouts are you?  I have a bates jump saddle for sale if you want to try it?
I'm in Berkshire.


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## SirenaXVI (13 December 2010)

I have a Bates Isabell Werth and I love it, so does my mare


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## HayleyandBob (13 December 2010)

Im selling my Bates momentum if your interested  I am also in Berkshire  
I really like wintecs and bates just as long as they actually fit the horse! Unfortunately my stupid long legs dont fit my 17" Momentum!


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## Morrigan_Lady (13 December 2010)

Ive got a close contact jumping Bates saddle and LOVE it.
Ive had it for years and years and ride both my horses in it and we all love it.
I would only ever have cair now and I shall be buying the momentum next year as soon as Ive had my baby and can start riding again.


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## coen (13 December 2010)

I have just spoken to the saddle fitter and it is actually the ap (general purpose saddle) which isn't what I wanted I am after a secure jump saddle, big knee blocks ect.

I can't fault the fit it was perfect on him I am just not sure about the cair and more importantly the quality. He told me it is a good quality saddle but in comparison to my fairfax it doesn't look close and they are the same price.

I want a jump saddle so if I am willing to get a gp wonder if there are better options.

Horse has high withers so I am a little limited with the jump styles any recommendations?

I am getting sf back this weekend.


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## Tnavas (13 December 2010)

TarrSteps said:



			The Bates have always and only been leather.  You might be thinking of Wintec which are the same overall company and have the same gullet system, although they've only ever been synthetic.  I'm not sure if they're built on the same tree (they certainly didn't used to be but times change) but I don't find the Wintecs feel/ride the same as the Bates anyway.
		
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Some of their saddles are made from a mixture of leather and of synthetic leather look - the Olympia range was - I've bought many for the riding school as they seem to fit so well - I still have my Olympia GP which is now about 16yrs old - its been on a TB and is now on my Clydesdale - with a different gullet though.

The Wintecs are built on the same tree but totally synthetic. When I first came to NZ 23 yrs ago they did some of the saddles in colours too I remember a blue one and a friend had a red one. Definately agree that the Wintecs just don't seem to ride the same - I find that they tend to slide back.


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## Stormy123456 (13 December 2010)

I have a Bates Caprilli Event (Interchangable gullets/Cair system) - and love it. It must be at least a good 8/9 years old now, and isn't particularly worn. I'd definately have one again (I could never go back to a GP after mine!). 

Ballet is very wither high as well.


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## Kate. (14 December 2010)

I have a Bates caprilli close contact with cair too, absolutely love it - i've had it for 3years and it still looks as good as new.  It's been on my last 4 horses and have managed to get it to fit all of them perfectly.  I do a lot of showjumping and hunting, and the only hang up that i have with it is that i find that it throws my lower leg forwards - however this isnt such a bad thing when anchoring myself down whilst going full throttle at a decent hedge!!


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## Kallibear (14 December 2010)

The reccomendation of fit are rather arbitary unless you specify an exact model, and a manufacture date - the tree's and panels differ from model to model - the Werth is different from the Pro, which is different from the GP and the Innova and momentum are different yet again. The jump CC is totally diffferent from the GP. They are NOT the same saddle and they fit very differently! Those who say they GP and the CC fit equally well need to have a look again at their saddles!

The bates have the same (synthetic) tree as the wintecs, they're just made of leather on the outside. The older style's of wintecs/bates are a terrible fit on most horses as they're too curved. The newer model and the higher spec ones are better.

Cair only works if the saddle is a perfect fit for the horse. If its NOT a perfect fit the cair never beds down and 'springs' back into the orginal (incorrect) shape every stride and eventually gives them a sore back. Decent flocking beds to their exact shape and stays there. As for cair not compressing - that's untrue: cair panels compress and flatten over a couple of years and will need replaced - I've seen some very squished panels! They don't go lumpy but they do compress badly. I'd always got for decent flocking instead for those reasons.


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## Lyle (14 December 2010)

I have a flocked Bates Caprilli CC flat seat with interchangeable gullet and love it! Very easy to fit and comfy to ride in. Until recently I had a Bates Preciuex dressage, with the Cair. Loved the saddle, hated the Cair! It changed shape and became oddly lumpy, so had it changed for flock. 
I recently purchased a Wintec pro Dressage, which is amazingly comfy and being synthetic suede is easy to keep clean


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## jumptoit (14 December 2010)

I have 5 Bates GP/VSD saddles and I love them had some for 6 or 7 years now and despite not being looked after perfectly in the first place they still look very smart, I'm currently on the look out for a second hand elevation/momentum now too .


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## Alibear (14 December 2010)

Bates VSD 2010 model for a flat backed lad who's recovering from KS amongst other things.
Love it and it has the shims along with the wither adjustments so we can constantly keep changing it as his shape changes. 
Do find I cans sometimes feel a bar in the seat when I ride but that tells me it needs adjusting again so easily solved. 
Doesn't hold me in as much as my dressage saddle did but still very comfy and personally I feel safer in it as  I can acutally jump off in an emergency now.


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## HotToTrot (14 December 2010)

No idea - but how is he going now, has he stopped his tantrums?  Hope it is all going well!


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## coen (14 December 2010)

Thanks hot to trot yes he has been great recently. I have also started having lessons with Kevin Woods who has been a great help he is so knowledgeable totally unfazed and has given me some little tricks to nip the tantrums in the bud before they start.
He is a big baby and will probably always be the type to try it on but he it isn't a big deal now. It was a few months ago. 
How are things for you.

As for the saddle - I am not going to keep the gp it isn't right I need a jump. As for Bates, I can see a lot of people really like them and I can't fault the fit on him but I am just not mad on them and you should love a new saddle.
 I will let you know what I end of getting. Hope the bloody snow doesn't stop the saddler getting to me.


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## scoobydoo1236 (4 November 2013)

I have the bates gp sc saddle in tan leather. I LOVE IT!!! It fits my tb x wb mare with very high withers perfectly, and the adjustable knee rolls makes riding dressage and jumping easy in the saddle as you can move the knee roll to change your leg position. CAIR is really good, the air bags do a great job of absorbing the impacts put on them, and create me a lovely light seat. my girl loves it too, would recommend to anyone


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