# gutted my horse bolted today and I'm so disappointed



## Quartz (11 February 2011)

I am sooo disappointed in myself and horse, confidence is now battered.  More my confidence and trust in him then confidence in riding.  He has been bolting when jumping, but dressage and hacking out fine.  In fact I have cantered and galloped him out on hacks on my own and with other horses;  he has always stopped when I have asked him and been good as gold.  
Anyway today went on a hack with another horse (first time with this horse).  Started to trot and my horse decided to put 4 massive bucks in (he never does this).  Walked for a bit then trotted again, he started to canter so let him for a bit.  We said we would trot again, the other horse went to trot and mine just bolted.  There was nothing I could do, usually I would think to cirlce as I do in the ring when he does this after jumping.  Path was too narrow and he was going way to fast to do a tight turn.  Evertime I tried to pull him up he went faster and faster, we arrived at a t junction where we headed straight, jumped a small hedge and headed off into a field where he then applied his emergency break.  All very unsettling.  Just don't understand where this came from, and of course now worry that he will do this on other occassions which puts me off hacking.  I usually love going out for a canter and gallop with neighbour and her ex race horse so why behave like this today?  He is seeing the oesto next week incase an underlying reason especially has he has started bolting after each jump.  But woudl a horse in pain bolt on a hack?  Or is it just the sunshine?  So worried about it all at the mo.  Any words of wisdom would help settle my nerves.  Also my friend said I should have hit him as a punishment with my riding crop which I didn't do (would you agree with this?)


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## Kat (11 February 2011)

Was he actually bolting - as in flat out blind terror not paying any attention to anything or was it more a case of he wanted to go faster for longer than you did? 

Either is not good and frightening but I think it makes a difference to the way you deal with it. 

The fact that you say he is bolting after a fence makes me think he isn't so much bolting as bu99ering off and evading your stop/slow down aids. In which case I'd be thinking schooling plus considering your tack, bit, noseband and martingale. As well as back, teeth and saddle checks. 

Once you are sure there is no pain anywhere, I'd examine what he does when he refuses to stop. Does he stick his head in the air, or down, or set his neck, or cross his jaw. Most of these things can be assisted with the right tack to make sure you aren't completely without brakes. You can also school him to respond better to downward transitions and to know that jumping doesn't mean "go flat out" and that "faster" doesn't mean "flat out until you run out of steam". I'd think about trying to train him to the voice too, lots of horses than get fast and start to ignore the aids respond well to being trained to respond to "aaaaaand wooooooaahhhhh".


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

Honestly it felt like a bolt (but then I guess these things can feel worse at the time), however, the feel of his body changed beneath  me, it seemed to change from nice comfy horse to beast full of power horse (if that makes sense) he would not listein to anything, it felt like he had grabbed the bit and was running through it.  I was not too tense as just tried to deal with situation but anything I did, he just went faster until he decided to stop, bad bad bad.  When jumping on landing he tanks off, head down bum in air then full on crazy acceleration.  When I was ridning today I had on his gogue, and snaffle bit.  He often canters to catch up with others when on a hack, and canters with other horses no probs.  Really cannot fathom what happened today and thats the thing thats getting to me.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (11 February 2011)

KristmasKatt said:



			Was he actually bolting - as in flat out blind terror not paying any attention to anything or was it more a case of he wanted to go faster for longer than you did? 

Either is not good and frightening but I think it makes a difference to the way you deal with it. 

The fact that you say he is bolting after a fence makes me think he isn't so much bolting as bu99ering off and evading your stop/slow down aids. In which case I'd be thinking schooling plus considering your tack, bit, noseband and martingale. As well as back, teeth and saddle checks. 

Once you are sure there is no pain anywhere, I'd examine what he does when he refuses to stop. Does he stick his head in the air, or down, or set his neck, or cross his jaw. Most of these things can be assisted with the right tack to make sure you aren't completely without brakes. You can also school him to respond better to downward transitions and to know that jumping doesn't mean "go flat out" and that "faster" doesn't mean "flat out until you run out of steam". I'd think about trying to train him to the voice too, lots of horses than get fast and start to ignore the aids respond well to being trained to respond to "aaaaaand wooooooaahhhhh".
		
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Echo the above.

Just a thought, do you canter/gallop him on the same stretch out riding?


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## Dobby (11 February 2011)

You say he hasn't bolted with you before on a hack, but it seems you are letting him get away with quite alot in terms of him dictating your speed. He canters to catch up, he started cantering so you let him etc.

More schooling on hacks - trot means trot. Get your hacking partner to just walk alongside or behind you while you go ahead and do lots of transitions to get him listening.
If he starts cantering - don't just let him, and if he starts cantering to catch up, call to the other person to slow down so you can get things under control again. Don't start cantering if he is trying to take off - get a nice trot going and then ask. 

I also find using one rein to stop rather than heaving with both gets a much better reaction.

I know how you feel, what you've described sounds like a horse I've ridden, and it is scary. You can't let them get away with an inch dictating the pace at all or they will take a mile.

Good luck!


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## ibot (11 February 2011)

well can i start off this post by saying well done for staying on  you should be very proud of yourself. sounds like it was very scary.

i have been bolted with in an indoor school and i was unlucky i fell off (bailed) badly and was on crutches for 7 weeks not one of the happiest memories lol.

i think the back guy is certainly a good start, was there anything different going on for example was there a hunt on?? i know the horses in our area go a little silly when the hunt is on.
what happened with the other horse when you went?? 

well done again.........


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

blazingsaddles said:



			Echo the above.

Just a thought, do you canter/gallop him on the same stretch out riding?
		
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Yes, but not where we cantered today.  Usually we go of the main track and canter or go into a field to canter/ gallop around.  Today was on the main track, a long straight.  I keep thinking it over and over what could I of done differently and the only thing I think is I shouldn't of cantered him there, it was a long straight and on way home.  But really I just think he should listein to me, hes at that age (7) where people keep telling me he will try and show his dominance, its just not my horse that I know and love!!!  With regards to tack, what do you suggest?  Are you meaning a harder bit (hes quite sensitive in the mouth)?  Maybe I'm being really pathetic but it was a real tank off with me and not  listeining but speeding up.  Still don't want him to do this!!


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

ibot said:



			well can i start off this post by saying well done for staying on  you should be very proud of yourself. sounds like it was very scary.

i have been bolted with in an indoor school and i was unlucky i fell off (bailed) badly and was on crutches for 7 weeks not one of the happiest memories lol.

i think the back guy is certainly a good start, was there anything different going on for example was there a hunt on?? i know the horses in our area go a little silly when the hunt is on.
what happened with the other horse when you went?? 

well done again.........
		
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Nothing different, no hunt.  Lovely sunny day....perfect for hacking!!  Honestly I did think of bailing more than once but the floor just looked so uninviting that I tried my best to stay on as long as poss.  Had I of bailed he would of stopped straight away of course!!!  Its also the bucking he did which makes me think of his back as he has never ever done this on a hack only jumping again.  
The other horse cantered behind but not as fast as it took them a while to reach me when we had stopped!!!


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## ChesnutsRoasting (11 February 2011)

I could be completely wrong but....... your horse touches grass or track when ridden and is asked to canter/gallop in the same spot & repeatedly, he will most probably begin to anticipate what normally comes next.


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

Dobby said:



			You say he hasn't bolted with you before on a hack, but it seems you are letting him get away with quite alot in terms of him dictating your speed. He canters to catch up, he started cantering so you let him etc.

More schooling on hacks - trot means trot. Get your hacking partner to just walk alongside or behind you while you go ahead and do lots of transitions to get him listening.
If he starts cantering - don't just let him, and if he starts cantering to catch up, call to the other person to slow down so you can get things under control again. Don't start cantering if he is trying to take off - get a nice trot going and then ask. 

I also find using one rein to stop rather than heaving with both gets a much better reaction.

I know how you feel, what you've descried sounds like a horse I've ridden, and it is scary. You can't let them get away with an inch dictating the pace at all or they will take a mile.

Good luck!
		
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I agree with you on reflection he did dictate the speed and when etc.  Unfortunately I did ask the man I was with more than once if we could stay next to each other, but he didn't seem to take much notice.  Also when I go out with  my instructor she always goes off ahead, and when my horse canters and I try to pull him back to trot she tells me to just let him go and canter to catch up.  I kind of had this in my head a bit today, which seemed to be a mistake!!!!
Whilst sitting at home thinking about it, one thing went through my head and that was that I didn't  try to stop with just the one rein!  
I don't fancy another hack with that man again!!  Would prefer to try him back out on my own or with soemoen and a bike!!!


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

blazingsaddles said:



			I could be completely wrong but....... your horse touches grass or track when ridden and is asked to canter/gallop in the same spot & repeatedly, he will most probably begin to anticipate what normally comes next.
		
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I would agree with you if it was in the usual place that we canter, but it wasnt' so not entirely sure.  But will take all opinions and options on board.  With regards to brakes what would you suggest?


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## Dawng (11 February 2011)

Hi - feels so sorry for you - it happened to me too last spring - same situation where the path was too narrow to try to turn or use just one rein - I felt like a faithful marriage was over and that my Angel had taken away all the trust that I put in her over the years.  My girl was terrified of a canoe that had appeared and totally ran in terror but now she is terrified of everything and my confidence had taken a real knock.  Good luck - I hope it's physical because if it's a mental prob like my mare it's a lot harder to sort out. I'm just hoping I can find some help for the spring time when I want to try and ride her again.


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

Dawng said:



			Hi - feels so sorry for you - it happened to me too last spring - same situation where the path was too narrow to try to turn or use just one rein - I felt like a faithful marriage was over and that my Angel had taken away all the trust that I put in her over the years.  My girl was terrified of a canoe that had appeared and totally ran in terror but now she is terrified of everything and my confidence had taken a real knock.  Good luck - I hope it's physical because if it's a mental prob like my mare it's a lot harder to sort out. I'm just hoping I can find some help for the spring time when I want to try and ride her again.
		
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Thanks, you have summed up how I feel.  Its the trust between us thats broken.  My boy didn't spook at anything so it wasn't in terror, it was more of a thats what he wanted and it didn't matter what I did or said.  Funnily enough by the end I was just saying calmly "please stop, please stop now"  I do worry he may just of gone mad!


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## Kat (11 February 2011)

Quartz said:



			Yes, but not where we cantered today.  Usually we go of the main track and canter or go into a field to canter/ gallop around.  Today was on the main track, a long straight.  I keep thinking it over and over what could I of done differently and the only thing I think is I shouldn't of cantered him there, it was a long straight and on way home.  But really I just think he should listein to me, hes at that age (7) where people keep telling me he will try and show his dominance, its just not my horse that I know and love!!!  With regards to tack, what do you suggest?  Are you meaning a harder bit (hes quite sensitive in the mouth)?  Maybe I'm being really pathetic but it was a real tank off with me and not  listeining but speeding up.  Still don't want him to do this!!
		
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The long straight on the way home rings alarm bells with me! 

I would stop cantering on hacks, get him used to the fact that he doesn't just clear off the minute he gets onto grass. 

In terms of tack, if his mouth is sensitive you don't have to whack in a "harsh" bit. Although it sounds like he did a pretty convincing job of ignoring his snaffle so maybe you do need to up the ante. It depends a bit what he does, a grackle noseband can make a big difference if he is ignoring the bit because he is opening his mouth or crossing his jaw, if he comes above the bit to evade your aids a standing or running martingale would help, a kineton noseband puts pressure on the nose to help with brakes without putting pressure on the mouth, there are bitting options that don't have to be severe, if you need to get his head up you could try a cheltenham gag with two reins so that you only use the gag if he tanks off, you can use two reins and the same principle with lots of bits, there are bits that work through curb action or poll pressure rather than pressure on the bars/lips/tongue. 

Just a thought, what is his history? Some horses are trained to gallop into pressure and trying to haul them up if they take off makes them run harder so you need to try something different. 

I would also get a neck strap on and if he goes again try pulling that. Sometimes it works when they've zoned out on the bit.


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## Dawng (11 February 2011)

Quartz said:



			Thanks, you have summed up how I feel.  Its the trust between us thats broken.  My boy didn't spook at anything so it wasn't in terror, it was more of a thats what he wanted and it didn't matter what I did or said.  Funnily enough by the end I was just saying calmly "please stop, please stop now"  I do worry he may just of gone mad!
		
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Hi I shout woah a lot too and she listens - but I recommend the Myler combination bit - not too hard on the mouth either - my mare used to be hard on one side but this sorted her out.


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

KristmasKatt said:



			The long straight on the way home rings alarm bells with me! 

I would stop cantering on hacks, get him used to the fact that he doesn't just clear off the minute he gets onto grass. 

In terms of tack, if his mouth is sensitive you don't have to whack in a "harsh" bit. Although it sounds like he did a pretty convincing job of ignoring his snaffle so maybe you do need to up the ante. It depends a bit what he does, a grackle noseband can make a big difference if he is ignoring the bit because he is opening his mouth or crossing his jaw, if he comes above the bit to evade your aids a standing or running martingale would help, a kineton noseband puts pressure on the nose to help with brakes without putting pressure on the mouth, there are bitting options that don't have to be severe, if you need to get his head up you could try a cheltenham gag with two reins so that you only use the gag if he tanks off, you can use two reins and the same principle with lots of bits, there are bits that work through curb action or poll pressure rather than pressure on the bars/lips/tongue. 

Just a thought, what is his history? Some horses are trained to gallop into pressure and trying to haul them up if they take off makes them run harder so you need to try something different. 

I would also get a neck strap on and if he goes again try pulling that. Sometimes it works when they've zoned out on the bit.
		
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Will look into the tack you suggested to see what they are all about.  I do regret cantering there, I must admit.  However, the man I was with was on a much older calmer horse who was used to cantering down all the tracks.  Think this added a bit to the pressure.  
When you say try something different if they run into the pressure do you mean by a differnt noseband?  He did have a de gogue on, but that just kept his head down if not that would have been up and in my face as well.  What bit out the ones mentioned above would you recommend as being not too harsh but just an extra command so to speak when he doesn't listein?


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## Dizzydancer (11 February 2011)

Well done for staying on!!

My horse did this with me a few years back, basically he had just been a happy hacker i then schooled him and he turned out to be very fit and strong in the school i had never realised and not on roads but we went onto bridle paths he just tanked off i had no breaks for about a mile luckily he is good at cornering at speed and i managed to stay on even when he tried to smash my leg off on a post!! He stopped when he ran into a very high bridle path gate thank god it was closed.

I basically new what the prob was though he just locked his neck and off he went, I got off and pelted him (some will disagree but at the time that made sense!) and i knew it wasnt out of pain just taking the p**s! I basically changed his bit tried a few ended up in a pelham and double reins, only used curb one when needed.

If your boy just decided to take off and use his power rather than being scared which it sounds like, obv check for pain though but it sounds like he is trying to overpower you. I would be trying different bit/noseband etc to see. Or if he took off with head up high try a martingale, i prefer standing to running though as he will only pull on himself then not his mouth. 
Do percervere(sp) and make sure you dont canter in same places all the time. Concentrate on getting him to slow down in the school (to voice is good and if possibly weight position breathing exercises) Do not let him dictate the speed ever when out hacking, and finally dont hack with that man again (atleast for a while!!) Good luck.


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## ladyt25 (11 February 2011)

Sounds very scary - many years ago a friend had a mare who would do this and just jump any fence/hedge/gate in the process. It was very scary.

Whay rings alarm bells for me in your case is that you said you were trotting and the horse threw in bucks then you trotted again and that's when he set off. To me this behaviour would really indicate there is some pain of some sort going on there and I would really look into this. You need his tack checking and a good check all over by a vet and maybe a physio (depending what the vet thinks maybe).

Is he short coupled or long backed? It's just the bucking when trotting that makes me think that something is getting 'tweaked' - maybe a traped nerve type thing or spasm that scares him and he shoots off. It certainly does sound like he bolted - whether it's a 'true' bolt or not i do not know (hav been lucky enough never to have sat on a bolter) but i believe a serious bolter actually will not stop until it essentially crashes into something or falls over something sort of thing. Yours jumped an obstacle so it wasn't completely running blind as it were.

So, my main point would be check for pain it just ties in with his whole responses after jumping and the reaction to trotting on this occasion.


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

ladyt25 said:



			Sounds very scary - many years ago a friend had a mare who would do this and just jump any fence/hedge/gate in the process. It was very scary.

Whay rings alarm bells for me in your case is that you said you were trotting and the horse threw in bucks then you trotted again and that's when he set off. To me this behaviour would really indicate there is some pain of some sort going on there and I would really look into this. You need his tack checking and a good check all over by a vet and maybe a physio (depending what the vet thinks maybe).

Is he short coupled or long backed? It's just the bucking when trotting that makes me think that something is getting 'tweaked' - maybe a traped nerve type thing or spasm that scares him and he shoots off. It certainly does sound like he bolted - whether it's a 'true' bolt or not i do not know (hav been lucky enough never to have sat on a bolter) but i believe a serious bolter actually will not stop until it essentially crashes into something or falls over something sort of thing. Yours jumped an obstacle so it wasn't completely running blind as it were.

So, my main point would be check for pain it just ties in with his whole responses after jumping and the reaction to trotting on this occasion.
		
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I am getting the back lady out next week.  I do think there is pain, as after my dressage lesson yesterday took him for a cool down on the paths nearby and he kicked his back leg out, kind of, it was very odd like a spasm.  Also the bucking has never happened on a hack before.  He was not running scared however, and just using his power against me.  Will check him out as well as trying out another bit and nose band.


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

dizzydancer said:



			Well done for staying on!!

My horse did this with me a few years back, basically he had just been a happy hacker i then schooled him and he turned out to be very fit and strong in the school i had never realised and not on roads but we went onto bridle paths he just tanked off i had no breaks for about a mile luckily he is good at cornering at speed and i managed to stay on even when he tried to smash my leg off on a post!! He stopped when he ran into a very high bridle path gate thank god it was closed.

I basically new what the prob was though he just locked his neck and off he went, I got off and pelted him (some will disagree but at the time that made sense!) and i knew it wasnt out of pain just taking the p**s! I basically changed his bit tried a few ended up in a pelham and double reins, only used curb one when needed.

If your boy just decided to take off and use his power rather than being scared which it sounds like, obv check for pain though but it sounds like he is trying to overpower you. I would be trying different bit/noseband etc to see. Or if he took off with head up high try a martingale, i prefer standing to running though as he will only pull on himself then not his mouth. 
Do percervere(sp) and make sure you dont canter in same places all the time. Concentrate on getting him to slow down in the school (to voice is good and if possibly weight position breathing exercises) Do not let him dictate the speed ever when out hacking, and finally dont hack with that man again (atleast for a while!!) Good luck.
		
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Thanks!!  No he wasn't scared he just took off using his strength against me.  He knew what he was doing ( I think!!!)  But just locked himself off, so no amount of my force would do anything.  I think I will hold off cantering on hacks for a while till I get him listeining and def not with that man!!!.  Am going to look into some other bits as well.  Thanks for that, and staying on is the only thing thats keeping me from falling apart!!!


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## billy2 (11 February 2011)

I'm reading all this with great interest as I have a nappy little pony which appears to bolt in order to get home faster - 3 times, always within half mile of home - have just purchased a waterford snaffle to see where that gets us (after the cracked rib from the latest escapade has healed).


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

billy2 said:



			I'm reading all this with great interest as I have a nappy little pony which appears to bolt in order to get home faster - 3 times, always within half mile of home - have just purchased a waterford snaffle to see where that gets us (after the cracked rib from the latest escapade has healed).
		
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Ouch!!!  Hope you're ok!  Why did you choose the waterford snaffle?  Am really interested as checking all the bits that people have mentioned on the internet.  Good luck with your pony, hope your getting some useful suggestions!!


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## billy2 (11 February 2011)

Waterfords are supposed to be effective on ponies which grab the bit and run through it, because the links roll, the pony can't get a grip on it (allegedly!) We'll see!


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## Quartz (11 February 2011)

billy2 said:



			Waterfords are supposed to be effective on ponies which grab the bit and run through it, because the links roll, the pony can't get a grip on it (allegedly!) We'll see!
		
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I'd be interested  to hear how you get one with it.


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## sparky1981 (11 February 2011)

My horse bolted a few years back on a track for no apparent reason and wouldnt stop at all, was like a blind panic and i tried everything, turned him at hedge and he just spun and carried on along the road in rush hour. I ended up throwing myself off and needless to say ended up in hospital. He has done it once since but not quite as badly. I have had him for 8 years and theres nothing wrong with him have had every check possible. He just seems to do it on occasion. Very scary and did shatter my confidence and respect for him. I will only hack him in a dutch gag now, which to be fair i dont need to use much but i need it there as security. My horse doesnt seem to do it to take the mic as we have competed in all disciplines and hes a star and the rest of the time is a saint. Your horse does seem to be doing it more because hes throwing his weight around and cantering in the same place isnt always a good idea. My friends horse isnt good cantering on a hack fullstop. I would suggest some quiet hacks and maybe a change of bit.


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## sparky1981 (11 February 2011)

Also i didnt find the waterford snaffle helped much on either of my horses (my other is strong on xc)I now ride him on xc in a rubber pelham with an elastic curb chain and roundings. (He didnt like the normal pelham and metal curb as sensitive)


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## soulfull (11 February 2011)

hi  I agree with those that say well done for staying on!

The problems you have now are

Your confidence understandably needs a hand 
You need to be in control

These two can be helped by a change of bit I would use either the same mouth piece but in a dutch gag (3 ring snaffle) or a tom thumb bit.  I used a tomb thumb very successfully with my sensitive WB as he had shown  that he could threaten to rear.  you also need a martingale with either of these bits as he is VERY VERY likely to throw his head up to avoid it (you mentioned he would have if he could)

But first I would do the back and saddle check!!

Next problem is he has lean't he can do it so he cannot be allowed to do it again

This will be helped by the bit

However

This has started in the school with him running off after a jump!!  You need to address this urgently, the bit will help here too.  This is exactly what my yr WB was doing and why I used the tomb thumb,  it worked great and I only needed it 3 times.

Like others have said he you need to ALWAYS dictate the pace,  if he changes without you asking correct him IMMEDIATELY.

I suggest you start with the new bit/martingale  in the school and teach him to react to it,  lots of praise when he does.  The use it when jumping, again lots of transition him doing what you say and when you say

Then go on a hack on your own or with a really steady horse and repeat,  lots of transitions all your idea and ONLY when you say.  Build it up so you get your confidence back

Also very important use your voice,  I had a big horse that use to ignore me not cos he was naughty he just got so excited he would forget I was there as I am not very strong.  If I shouted  'Beacon TROOOOT'  he would oblige immediately though.  Its hard but you have to remember to do it in the same tone you would when lunging and calmly.


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## Quartz (12 February 2011)

soulfull said:



			hi  I agree with those that say well done for staying on!

The problems you have now are

Your confidence understandably needs a hand 
You need to be in control

These two can be helped by a change of bit I would use either the same mouth piece but in a dutch gag (3 ring snaffle) or a tom thumb bit.  I used a tomb thumb very successfully with my sensitive WB as he had shown  that he could threaten to rear.  you also need a martingale with either of these bits as he is VERY VERY likely to throw his head up to avoid it (you mentioned he would have if he could)

But first I would do the back and saddle check!!

Next problem is he has lean't he can do it so he cannot be allowed to do it again

This will be helped by the bit

However

This has started in the school with him running off after a jump!!  You need to address this urgently, the bit will help here too.  This is exactly what my yr WB was doing and why I used the tomb thumb,  it worked great and I only needed it 3 times.

Like others have said he you need to ALWAYS dictate the pace,  if he changes without you asking correct him IMMEDIATELY.

I suggest you start with the new bit/martingale  in the school and teach him to react to it,  lots of praise when he does.  The use it when jumping, again lots of transition him doing what you say and when you say

Then go on a hack on your own or with a really steady horse and repeat,  lots of transitions all your idea and ONLY when you say.  Build it up so you get your confidence back

Also very important use your voice,  I had a big horse that use to ignore me not cos he was naughty he just got so excited he would forget I was there as I am not very strong.  If I shouted  'Beacon TROOOOT'  he would oblige immediately though.  Its hard but you have to remember to do it in the same tone you would when lunging and calmly.
		
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This is my main concern that its becoming something he thinks he can get away with.  Someone told me its him trying to dominate me, which can be quite common at his age (7 this year).  I don't know if it relates to age, but whatever it is I don't want it to carry on.  Should I change from a de gouge to a martingale, I think they are quite alike so not sure on that.


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## soulfull (12 February 2011)

Quartz said:



			This is my main concern that its becoming something he thinks he can get away with.  Someone told me its him trying to dominate me, which can be quite common at his age (7 this year).  I don't know if it relates to age, but whatever it is I don't want it to carry on.  Should I change from a de gouge to a martingale, I think they are quite alike so not sure on that.
		
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Personally I prefer a martingale.
Dominate is a strong word.  He is just being a cheeky teenager. 
 Most will go through it sometime between 5 and 8yrs. 

 All it means is that for a while at least EVERYTHING has to be what you ask, even on the ground. 
 Keep you eye out for little things where he is testing you to see your reaction, they can be very very subtle.  things like one step into your space when you are not paying attention,  not halting exactly when you say (either ridden or on the ground) 
 If he doesn't halt when you say back him up immediately then reward and repeat the halt.
Ridden things might be him slowing down or speeding up just a little when you didn't ask him too or falling out/bulging though one shoulder at a certain point

What breed is he?  any Welsh in there?


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## Quartz (12 February 2011)

soulfull said:



			Personally I prefer a martingale.
Dominate is a strong word.  He is just being a cheeky teenager. 
 Most will go through it sometime between 5 and 8yrs. 

 All it means is that for a while at least EVERYTHING has to be what you ask, even on the ground. 
 Keep you eye out for little things where he is testing you to see your reaction, they can be very very subtle.  things like one step into your space when you are not paying attention,  not halting exactly when you say (either ridden or on the ground) 
 If he doesn't halt when you say back him up immediately then reward and repeat the halt.
Ridden things might be him slowing down or speeding up just a little when you didn't ask him too or falling out/bulging though one shoulder at a certain point

What breed is he?  any Welsh in there?
		
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Thanks thats made me feel slightly better.  He is listed on the Haras Nationaux as a Selle Francais, but his mother was actually arab.  So he's half arab half selle francais.


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## Quartz (12 February 2011)

Sorry, should I look at a running or standing martingale?


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## Flir (12 February 2011)

he fact that you say he is bolting after a fence makes me think he isn't so much bolting as bu99ering off and evading your stop/slow down aids. In which case I'd be thinking schooling plus considering your tack, bit, noseband and martingale. As well as back, teeth and saddle checks. 

Once you are sure there is no pain anywhere, I'd examine what he does when he refuses to stop. Does he stick his head in the air, or down, or set his neck, or cross his jaw. Most of these things can be assisted with the right tack to make sure you aren't completely without brakes. You can also school him to respond better to downward transitions and to know that jumping doesn't mean "go flat out" and that "faster" doesn't mean "flat out until you run out of steam". I'd think about trying to train him to the voice too, lots of horses than get fast and start to ignore the aids respond well to being trained to respond to "aaaaaand wooooooaahhhhh". 

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very good tips above and i agree with them all... will cost you but worth it

also i was thinking its good to change what you do when out hacking, dont always canter/gallop in the same places its good to change it up. For examply my old loan mare would always try and bugger off in the same places but she got the hint in the end.

I dont think smacking him would have helped hes obviously got an issue with something / or not happy about something so i would suggest getting him a good MOT.. also try Supercalm check out their website all natual products for almost every issue/situation. If he is just doing it for the sake of it and theres hopefully nothing physically wrong with him it may help chill his brain and help him deal with different situations. I have used it on my mare for seperate issues to yourself and do rate it so might be worth a gander? 

And fianally welldone for staying on, i had a nasty experience with an ill mannered 17h wb afew years ago, would just bolt into jumps, you couldnt pull him as he would just go faster, ended up us both falling as he didnt slow for the corner!  not a nice feeling so good on you having the b@lls to stay on!!!


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## sugarlump121 (12 February 2011)

You poor thing!

Have not read all the replies but good advice on the ones I have- get everything checked first of all, teeth, back, saddle and bridle (anything could be pinching even long hairs etc) even his feet and legs.

If its a case of he's taking the choice to *iss off its schooling and tack. Some may say be wary of too much tack but if its for safety its needed- you could have both been hurt.

The main thing I wanted to say was I used to loan a horse and used to hack him out with others-sometimes a group of us or just with 1 other. One day after a fast canter we were all pulling up when he decided to go off again, overtook all of the others in flat out gallop and I could not stop him, he eventually stopped himself half way down a hill :\ I've no idea why he did this and looked into everything, BUT... thankfully he never did it again even in thesame area after a canter, so it was just one of those (terrifying) things- hope your experience was too. The only other thing this horse did which wasn't good was rear up vertical and jumped on his back legs 3 times  that was awful but was because we were riding in a field and the other horse left us (only in walk mind).

Good luck, I'd also suggest getting 1-1 help or advice from someone you trust and who knows your boy


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## skewby (12 February 2011)

Quartz said:



			No he wasn't scared he just took off using his strength against me.  He knew what he was doing ( I think!!!)
		
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OP your experience sounds horrendous and I'm not surprised your confidence is knocked.  You do need to get to the bottom of this.  So glad you survived though, you and him!

With regard to possible pain though, a sudden jab of pain SOMEWHERE can have this effect, how was he when he pulled up?  Mine used to bolt (and I mean bolt, and I don't use the word lightly, but I would most definitely use it for what you describe here) and when I first had him, it was in terror.  Then when he got his feet under the table and relaxed, he knew he was big and strong and would occasionally use it as his way of giving me the bird, so to speak.

In the former cases, he'd pull up shaking and scared, still worried, heart beating HARD.  Then in the minutes after, the adrenaline would leave him and he'd feel very flat, almost depressed.  In the latter, he'd pull up, put his head down for a good long but SOFT snort, and jog about feeling pleased with himself.

I just wondered, what was your guy like when he pulled up finally?  Could give you a clue.

I do wonder with the other things you describe whether something is hurting somewhere and it's that.

As for stronger bits, and the one rein stop, forget it.  My lad ran through everything and anything I put in his mouth.  And if you don't get it in right at the start, attempting a "one rein stop" on a truly bolting horse at full stretch would be utterly ineffective at best, suicide for the pair of you at worst.

Best of luck OP and please update, I will follow with interest.  Bolting is vile.  The true extent of the danger tends to really catch up with you afterwards. xxx


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## Quartz (12 February 2011)

skewby said:



			OP your experience sounds horrendous and I'm not surprised your confidence is knocked.  You do need to get to the bottom of this.  So glad you survived though, you and him!

With regard to possible pain though, a sudden jab of pain SOMEWHERE can have this effect, how was he when he pulled up?  Mine used to bolt (and I mean bolt, and I don't use the word lightly, but I would most definitely use it for what you describe here) and when I first had him, it was in terror.  Then when he got his feet under the table and relaxed, he knew he was big and strong and would occasionally use it as his way of giving me the bird, so to speak.

In the former cases, he'd pull up shaking and scared, still worried, heart beating HARD.  Then in the minutes after, the adrenaline would leave him and he'd feel very flat, almost depressed.  In the latter, he'd pull up, put his head down for a good long but SOFT snort, and jog about feeling pleased with himself.

I just wondered, what was your guy like when he pulled up finally?  Could give you a clue.

I do wonder with the other things you describe whether something is hurting somewhere and it's that.

As for stronger bits, and the one rein stop, forget it.  My lad ran through everything and anything I put in his mouth.  And if you don't get it in right at the start, attempting a "one rein stop" on a truly bolting horse at full stretch would be utterly ineffective at best, suicide for the pair of you at worst.

Best of luck OP and please update, I will follow with interest.  Bolting is vile.  The true extent of the danger tends to really catch up with you afterwards. xxx
		
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When he pulled up it was like he did an emergency stop, I flew forwards but not off.  And then it was like nothing had happened, just a bit of snorting and heaving breathing for a couple of secs but he just stood there, still as anything.  I got off, as was a bit shock up and had a few cross words to say face to face.  Then I led him for a bit, calm as anything, then I got back on and walked him home.  
I hate that I can't stop replaying it over and over, I know I couldn't have doen anything differently though, I had no choice in what was happening.  But when I think back and remember actually crossing a T junction where cars come passed (not all the time luckily) I just think what could have happened.  
The oestopath is coming out next week to check him over, so will see what she says.  Will also ask her opinion on my saddle (not sure if she will be able to help on that score though).


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## Kokopelli (12 February 2011)

You may not know this but what were his ears doing at the time? Were they back or forward or neither?

As for getting confidence back try and ride in a place you feel safe and just take baby steps I honestly think being bolted with is the most frightening experience involving horses so well done for staying on and I hope you get it sorted soon


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## Quartz (12 February 2011)

Kokopelli said:



			You may not know this but what were his ears doing at the time? Were they back or forward or neither?

As for getting confidence back try and ride in a place you feel safe and just take baby steps I honestly think being bolted with is the most frightening experience involving horses so well done for staying on and I hope you get it sorted soon 

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I think his ears were back.  For some reason I have that in my head, when I was trying to stop they were definately back.  When we stopped think they were forwards as he was completely calm.


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## Quartz (12 February 2011)

Think a bit of shock may be kicking.  Yesterday the adreneline must have still been pumping because I now feel sick when I think about it!!


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## blitznbobs (12 February 2011)

I'd give him a kick in the ribs TBH difficult to do but it's not what he will be expecting and I've had success with this technique on several occasions... If you are in an area where it is dangerous to do this then I would suggest pulling one rein (hard and sharp) then the other - never both together. If you are somewhere safe the other technique I've tried with success is pushing them on faster and not letting them stop when they want to... if you do this everytime, they soon learn that bolting causes you to be very very tired.

I know some of these techniques may be seen as extreme but this is dangerous behaviour and could get both of you killed..

BnB


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## skewby (13 February 2011)

Thanks for that clarification Quartz.  Sounds like something's up to me, not a bad horse.  Honestly, if they have pain somewhere and it's sudden, this is what you get.  They're not stupid, really does sound like he went absolutely blind and in panic with you.  As he hasn't done this before, it has to be physical (I later discovered mine went like the blitz as he was already nervous as hell, then some fool man discovered that if you "wave the whip between his ears he goes like the clappers".  Go figure).  But sounds like you have a nice horse and SOMETHING or other is jabbing him somehow, I personally wouldn't get on until you have all your checks done.  Also don't just rely on "back person" as in my experience they have had greater or lesser training and experience. if you get no joy there I honestly would get vet and explain it to them.  Good luck chick and keep in touch xxx


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## Quartz (13 February 2011)

skewby said:



			Thanks for that clarification Quartz.  Sounds like something's up to me, not a bad horse.  Honestly, if they have pain somewhere and it's sudden, this is what you get.  They're not stupid, really does sound like he went absolutely blind and in panic with you.  As he hasn't done this before, it has to be physical (I later discovered mine went like the blitz as he was already nervous as hell, then some fool man discovered that if you "wave the whip between his ears he goes like the clappers".  Go figure).  But sounds like you have a nice horse and SOMETHING or other is jabbing him somehow, I personally wouldn't get on until you have all your checks done.  Also don't just rely on "back person" as in my experience they have had greater or lesser training and experience. if you get no joy there I honestly would get vet and explain it to them.  Good luck chick and keep in touch xxx
		
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Thanks for those comments, I think that whats so upsetting that it was so out of the blue he has never bucked before on a hack or bolted and he did both.   Once the back lady has been I will also get the vet out.  Really really hoping they come up with something.


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## skewby (13 February 2011)

Quartz said:



			Thanks for those comments, I think that whats so upsetting that it was so out of the blue he has never bucked before on a hack or bolted and he did both.   Once the back lady has been I will also get the vet out.  Really really hoping they come up with something.
		
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Me too.  Fingers crossed for you both here!  Let us know how it goes xxx


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