# Benefit Cheats Nick and Mair Arnold------its OUR money folks!



## FairyLights (22 February 2011)

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...rs-caught-running-a-stud-farm-91466-28208159/
Benefit cheats!


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## bonny (22 February 2011)

You know them personally ? I fail to see why you've posted this unless you have an axe to grind......


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## smiggy (22 February 2011)

ah come on, shes definitely got a bit of a limp


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## BonneMaman (22 February 2011)

I totally agree with OP - this type of person should be named and shamed and anyone sticking up for them should feel ashamed!

We are all struggling in the current climate and to think that we are all subsidising people like this makes me very very angry.

They could have paid someone to look after the horses with the money they stole and pocketed it.


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## BonneMaman (22 February 2011)

smiggy said:



			ah come on, shes definitely got a bit of a limp 



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Yea, and if you read the article supposedly he has a bit of a limp... too!


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## Always Blue (22 February 2011)

oh dear....should have kept their mouths closed, wouldn't have got caught then


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## FairyLights (22 February 2011)

I do not know them, the point I am making is its this sort of thing that means that when we get our paypacket theres less in it for us to spend on our horses or what ever we want tospend it on,because these benefit cheats are telling lies,receiving money from the government and it us, our money,our taxes which they recieve.


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## Persephone (22 February 2011)

There must be something wrong with her....she is doing yard in a dress!


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## Steeleydan (22 February 2011)

Serves them right IMO. Too many people at it.


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## bonny (22 February 2011)

It doesn't affect your paypacket, that's a separate issue altogether.  Millions of pounds of tax money is wasted in alot of ways included this, but in the scheme of things it's a small proportion of tax that is spent on fraudantly claimed benefits.  Maybe stop reading the daily mail to get a wider view of the world and how it works ......


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## ChesnutsRoasting (22 February 2011)

bonny said:



			It doesn't affect your paypacket, that's a separate issue altogether.  Millions of pounds of tax money is wasted in alot of ways included this, but in the scheme of things it's a small proportion of tax that is spent on fraudantly claimed benefits.  Maybe stop reading the daily mail to get a wider view of the world and how it works ......
		
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The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.


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## bonny (22 February 2011)

It's a horse forum, not a daily mail forum.


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## Steeleydan (22 February 2011)

Bonny- You sound from your posts as though you applaud this kind of behavoiur, if the country didnt have to "fund" these kind of people it would not be in the sorry state it is.


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## SusannaF (22 February 2011)

I think maybe Bonny's saying that benefit cheats are small fry compared to corporate tax-dodgers. Which is true. Not that it doesn't stink when people take benefits to which they're not entitled.
So we should also get worked up about Barclays et al, and all those billionaires and big firms who stay off-shore so they don't have to pay tax here.


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## bonny (22 February 2011)

Of course I don't ....but they  are not to blame for the state of the country, well maybe a very small part of the problem.  There will always be people who defraud the system, whether it's benefit cheats, tax dodgers, MP's, bankers etc etc. I just felt this was a horse forum and not really the place for naming and shaming a couple who have presumably got their comeupance for what they did already. We could fill this forum with similar cases, to what point ?


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## ChesnutsRoasting (22 February 2011)

bonny said:



			It's a horse forum, not a daily mail forum.[/QUOT

I  believe the article was taken from Walesonline. Camerons speech on benefi
ts scams costing the country 5 billion was an exaggeration. But even the 1 billion that is attributed to benefits scams is too much for me. Benefit scams are no different from thieving from your neighbour (a neighbour that works or genuinely requires financial assistance, that is) and just as immoral.
		
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## tweedette (22 February 2011)

personally I hate the 'name and shame' attitude, no one knows any more than what the press sensationalise. The case has been dealt with - end of!!! the video is shamefull and should NOT be on public display.


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## bonny (22 February 2011)

that was a reply to steelydan btw


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## Nudibranch (22 February 2011)

I think it's absolutely right they are named and shamed, and since they were running a stud then why not on here too?

I can't bear the Daily Mail but passing this off as "small fry" is no excuse - how much does it all add up to when these "small timers" are at it all over the country?

Just ask anyone who rents property out about benefit fraud. Trust me, £1000 is a lot of money when that's how much someone still owes you when they've cheated the system and the landlord has to be the fall guy. Anyone on here want to take £1000 out of their bank account and stuff it down the drain? Thought not.

If it weren't for the benefit cheats costing millions of pounds our taxes/NI would be lower and hence we'd all be better off. I resent every penny that goes to someone cheating the system - it affects everyone, including honest people claiming benefits fairly.

Rant over


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## Natch (22 February 2011)

I presume the reason it is on a horse forum is because it is a stud farm the couple are running.

And yes it does suck, no less than bankers bonuses or MPs expenses, IMHO. its fraud, and its money which could have gone to greater public use.


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## Ladylina83 (22 February 2011)

Well I just don't see why I should have to go to work to look after myself and my horses when other people can just stay at home ! 

There used to be a girl on our yard with 7 - yes 7 horses and a wagon and drove a better car than me and her OH had a focus ST ! ! all on benefits, How can this happen ?? I can't even afford petrol some days !!

We also have a mate (loose sense of the word) who gets a brand new car due to his kid being Dyslexic (my OH has severe Dyslexia and his folks never got a car !!!) Doesn't work house paid for etc .... posts on FB every day " Ah what to do today while you losers are all at work!!" GET A JOB!!


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## bonny (22 February 2011)

Ladylina83 said:



			Well I just don't see why I should have to go to work to look after myself and my horses when other people can just stay at home ! 

There used to be a girl on our yard with 7 - yes 7 horses and a wagon and drove a better car than me and her OH had a focus ST ! ! all on benefits, How can this happen ?? I can't even afford petrol some days !!

We also have a mate (loose sense of the word) who gets a brand new car due to his kid being Dyslexic (my OH has severe Dyslexia and his folks never got a car !!!) Doesn't work house paid for etc .... posts on FB every day " Ah what to do today while you losers are all at work!!" GET A JOB!!
		
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Wow, there is obviously alot of fraud in the system but you don't help any argument by writing such utter tosh as this !


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## Steeleydan (22 February 2011)

There has been a similar story in the DM, Sat I think- About a retired couple who, 4 years ago reported there neighbour who was on the "sick" supposedly couldnt walk, he used to garden, go up ladders play golf etc, wife didnt work, he had a brand new AudiTT. So retired couple saw an ad on TV wanting people to shop know benefit cheats. So they reported them was promised it was in strictest of confidence, then the DSS or whoever dishes this money out wrote to the man and named the elderly retired couple as the ones that shopped him.
So now these two pensioners live in fear of their lives with threats from this benefit cheat.
And they say crime doesnt pay!!!


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## competitiondiva (22 February 2011)

Naturally said:



			I presume the reason it is on a horse forum is because it is a stud farm the couple are running.

And yes it does suck, no less than bankers bonuses or MPs expenses, IMHO. its fraud, and its money which could have gone to greater public use.
		
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Agree Naturally, as it has equine links it is here, it annoys the hell out of me and think they should be punished and made to pay the money back plus interest!!! But agree it's no different to fraudulent (sp?) expense claims from mp's, tax evaders etc, it all adds up to money that should have gone into the general pot, resulting in us, the law abiding tax paying citizens didn't get hammered left right and centre so much!


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## DipseyDeb (22 February 2011)

bonny said:



			It doesn't affect your paypacket, that's a separate issue altogether.  Millions of pounds of tax money is wasted in alot of ways included this, but in the scheme of things it's a small proportion of tax that is spent on fraudantly claimed benefits.  Maybe stop reading the daily mail to get a wider view of the world and how it works ......
		
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Oh that's alright then...let them claim more!!!!  Of course it will effect pay packets in the long run.....there are thousands upon thousands of these unscrupulous people about blatantly pocketing money that they have no right to...pushes taxes up even further for those of us who are honest!!!!


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## DipseyDeb (22 February 2011)

Ladylina83 said:



			We also have a mate (loose sense of the word) who gets a brand new car due to his kid being Dyslexic (my OH has severe Dyslexia and his folks never got a car !!!) Doesn't work house paid for etc .... posts on FB every day " Ah what to do today while you losers are all at work!!" GET A JOB!!
		
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I presume you mean he claimed Disability Living Allowance mobility componant......he wouldn't get that for dyslexia!!


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## Ladylina83 (22 February 2011)

bonny said:



			Wow, there is obviously alot of fraud in the system but you don't help any argument by writing such utter tosh as this !
		
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These are 2 examples of fraud I have experianced in real life not TOSH thanks !In fact just the 1st 2 I could think of ... there are more 

And yes it makes me mad, sorry about that. How would you like me to help make it better? I'm a bit busy making a living to pay for the things I want ! 

I was brought up in a single parent family by a mum with a disability who went to work every day to feed us, we got no help not even a blue badge !



Edit; reading this back I realise I perhaps just look jealous !!


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## MissJael (22 February 2011)

Of course they should be named and shamed - anyone who has ever been dealt with in a court will know that they can find coverage of their case in their local newspaper no matter if they've been caught swindling the tax payer or punching the local mayor.

The media have hardly sensationalised this case; it's merely made it on to a daily website because of the absolute contempt the two have shown in running a stud farm whilst claiming to be too ill to move!


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## Archangel (22 February 2011)

Quote from the article:
_his wife was in the middle bracket and said fatigue and depression meant she slept up to 20 hours a day._

Oi!  I feel like that all the fluffing time but I have to get up and go to work  and I've got an Arab horse so where are my disability living allowance thingys £kerching£?

Maybe if I wore a dress to muck out *rubs chin*


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## bonny (22 February 2011)

Ladylina83 said:



			These are 2 examples of fraud I have experianced in real life not TOSH thanks !In fact just the 1st 2 I could think of ... there are more 

And yes it makes me mad, sorry about that. How would you like me to help make it better? I'm a bit busy making a living to pay for the things I want ! 

I was brought up in a single parent family by a mum with a disability who went to work every day to feed us, we got no help not even a blue badge !
		
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It is tosh and you can't make the system better .....there will always be people who cheat the system in all walks of life.


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## Ladylina83 (22 February 2011)

DipseyDeb said:



			I presume you mean he claimed Disability Living Allowance mobility componant......he wouldn't get that for dyslexia!!
		
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Do you know this for sure ? (this is not an attack btw just curious) He is an able bodied 10 year old boy who is on the football team and goes to mainstream school - he has Dyslexia and some mild behavior issues! I am not sure what criteria are used to deem it necessary for the state to give him mobility allowance.


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## Ladylina83 (22 February 2011)

bonny said:



			It is tosh and you can't make the system better .....there will always be people who cheat the system in all walks of life.
		
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So if I can't make it better then saying how I feel about it can't make it worse can it ! 

It is not tosh but we'll agree to disagree


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## Ranyhyn (22 February 2011)

Oh right, because it happens a lot and worse happens, we shouldn't complain when people do wrong?

Yeah allllllright....


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## competitiondiva (22 February 2011)

bonny said:



			It is tosh and you can't make the system better .....there will always be people who cheat the system in all walks of life.
		
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Bonny I don't quite understand your antagonism towards people regarding this issue, these benefit fraudsters have done something wrong, therefore they should be punished, it is equine related hence it is discussed here.  Do you feel that these people didn't do anything wrong? 

Just because it happens in all walks of life and people will always try to do it mean that the authorities shouldn't try to stop it and the people not be punished?

Why do you pass of other peoples experiences as tosh?!

You seem to think it's no big deal and almost as if you think it's a waste of resources chasing these people over it?!  Why can't we discuss it if it is an issue that people feel strongly about???


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## bonny (22 February 2011)

Complain about whatever you like, I just objected to anyone being named and shamed on here like this. It's a horse forum, no one is going to say what they did was justified but having everyone jump on the bandwagon and saying they are responsible for the countries woes doesn't help.


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## bonny (22 February 2011)

competitiondiva said:



			Bonny I don't quite understand your antagonism towards people regarding this issue, these benefit fraudsters have done something wrong, therefore they should be punished, it is equine related hence it is discussed here.  Do you feel that these people didn't do anything wrong? 

Just because it happens in all walks of life and people will always try to do it mean that the authorities shouldn't try to stop it and the people not be punished?

Why do you pass of other peoples experiences as tosh?!

You seem to think it's no big deal and almost as if you think it's a waste of resources chasing these people over it?!  Why can't we discuss it if it is an issue that people feel strongly about???
		
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Nobody gets mobility allowance because their son has dyslexia ...that's why I said it was tosh and I'll stand by that.


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## Ranyhyn (22 February 2011)

They aren't REALLY being named and shamed here, its no big suprise its in the paper, there's a link to a worldwide available newspaper - where they have been named and shamed.

I don't think anyone's trying to help Bonny..... somehow I think you have missed the point of this thread - OP isn't trying to "help" anyone... they are just making the rest of us aware, which most of us are greatful for.

Pretty sure that's what we all come here for, a chat, keeping up to date on current news (there's even a board specifically for it!! )....


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## DipseyDeb (22 February 2011)

Ladylina83 said:



			Do you know this for sure ? (this is not an attack btw just curious) He is an able bodied 10 year old boy who is on the football team and goes to mainstream school - he has Dyslexia and some mild behavior issues! I am not sure what criteria are used to deem it necessary for the state to give him mobility allowance.
		
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http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/FinancialSupport/DisabilityLivingAllowance/DG_10011816


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## DipseyDeb (22 February 2011)

bonny said:



			Complain about whatever you like, I just objected to anyone being named and shamed on here like this. It's a horse forum, no one is going to say what they did was justified but having everyone jump on the bandwagon and saying they are responsible for the countries woes doesn't help.
		
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I think you're more upset because you know them and feel their actions should be justified....whatever the reason, anyone who is caught should be named and shamed...simple!!!


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## hunting mad (22 February 2011)

I think this behaviour is disgusting.
It shouldnt be allowed...........I personally myself have to wear a splint from toes to my kness to be able to walk,if i dont have it i cant walk.Every day i suffer a great amount of pain,and swelling,but still i manage to help on my OH farm,look after the children and the horses,AND not claim disabilitiy.I feel that if i can do this,then i dont deserve it.
Also,did i mention im minus a finger as well


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## MosMum (22 February 2011)

People who commit benefit fraud, especially to do wth disability, make those claiming honestly look bad. 

Ladylina83: 
You can't get HRM (high rate mobility) for dyslexia, but if they argued he had severe behavioural problems together with a severe learning disability, its possible. The other way to get HRM is being physically incapable of walking, or it being dangerous to their health to walk (as in the case of someone with a severe heart disorder, for instance)

My son gets DLA for both care and mobility, and we have a motability car, because he has autism, epilepsy, hypermobility, low muscle tone, joint laxity and severe sensory problems together with a language disorder. 
We need, we are entitled to it, he benefits from it, and we also have a blue badge, bus pass and train pass. I don't work, but my husband does (I am currently at home with our 2.5 yr old who is also being assessed for autism).

Believe me, I would LOVE to have your job for a week!!! I'm not being rude btw but honestly, I would! I am going CRAZY spending every day using PECs, BSL and screaming/crying/spinning to be told what my kids want/need. I would LOVE to not wake up at 2 and 3 and 4am to clean **** smears off my bathroom wall because he's not toilet trained, or change bedding and clean up sick because he's had another seizure...

I guess maybe if you sound jealous (and I'm not saying you do), I just sound bitter LOL


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## Fairynuff (22 February 2011)

they do a hell of a lot of showing which must be incredibly complicated given their 'disabilities!' On one forum the bloke was thanking his wife as it was she who got the horses ready for showing etc...ahhhhh, how sweet. They cant be that bad, they do sponsor a class with the tax payers money...lol.
And he's a judge!!!

http://www.northwalesarab.co.uk/2009.php

I was a fraud officer for the DSS and loved nailing the dishonest sods. Bonny, benefit fraud is theft, pure and simple.


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## lar (22 February 2011)

Whilst I would in no WAY condone the Arnold's actions can I just point out the following (from the same source as the OP!).

This is OUR money too folks!

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/busine.../02/09/2m-bonus-for-rbs-chief-91466-28143691/


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## Seahorse (22 February 2011)

bonny said:



			Nobody gets mobility allowance because their son has dyslexia ...that's why I said it was tosh and I'll stand by that.
		
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yeah, you don't even get mobility allowance if you can't walk!!


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## DipseyDeb (22 February 2011)

MosMum said:



			People who commit benefit fraud, especially to do wth disability, make those claiming honestly look bad. 

Ladylina83: 
You can't get HRM (high rate mobility) for dyslexia, but if they argued he had severe behavioural problems together with a severe learning disability, its possible. The other way to get HRM is being physically incapable of walking, or it being dangerous to their health to walk (as in the case of someone with a severe heart disorder, for instance)

My son gets DLA for both care and mobility, and we have a motability car, because he has autism, epilepsy, hypermobility, low muscle tone, joint laxity and severe sensory problems together with a language disorder. 
We need, we are entitled to it, he benefits from it, and we also have a blue badge, bus pass and train pass. I don't work, but my husband does (I am currently at home with our 2.5 yr old who is also being assessed for autism).

Believe me, I would LOVE to have your job for a week!!! I'm not being rude btw but honestly, I would! I am going CRAZY spending every day using PECs, BSL and screaming/crying/spinning to be told what my kids want/need. I would LOVE to not wake up at 2 and 3 and 4am to clean **** smears off my bathroom wall because he's not toilet trained, or change bedding and clean up sick because he's had another seizure...

I guess maybe if you sound jealous (and I'm not saying you do), I just sound bitter LOL
		
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I think this is the whole point of the post.....people like yourself are what the benefit sytem is in place for....people like that are the ones that abuse it and need to be ashamed (though are probably not)...the sad fact is, their are those who receive benefits and are not entitled to it, there are too many 'loop holes' I worked for the (what was) the DSS for 10 years as a visiting officer...I left very bitter because the people who demanded everything going and more were not always the ones who needed it most....90% of the people I dealt with could, in all honesty, could have been in work....those that really needed the help were the ones who seemed to get the raw deal...


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## perfect11s (22 February 2011)

bonny said:



			It is tosh and you can't make the system better .....there will always be people who cheat the system in all walks of life.
		
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 Yes you can make the system better.... make it that the people that need help get it ...And the one that dont get off their fat asses and get gainfull employment or starve  ... it does  cost every worker and worse still has a bad effect on hard working peoples respect for  the less fortunate and  the system....


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## SonnysHumanSlave (22 February 2011)

Ladylina83 said:



			Do you know this for sure ? (this is not an attack btw just curious) He is an able bodied 10 year old boy who is on the football team and goes to mainstream school - he has Dyslexia and some mild behavior issues! I am not sure what criteria are used to deem it necessary for the state to give him mobility allowance.
		
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My BIL get DLA for Dyslexia, only the lower rate of £18 a week, but that means he also gets £70 a week in tax credits.... yet my daughter has Heart failure and gets nothing,.... whole system makes no sense.


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## DipseyDeb (22 February 2011)

I <3 My Teddi said:



			My BIL get DLA for Dyslexia, only the lower rate of £18 a week, but that means he also gets £70 a week in tax credits.... yet my daughter has Heart failure and gets nothing,.... whole system makes no sense.
		
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## MosMum (22 February 2011)

That's disgusting, Teddi (not that BIL gets DLA but that your daughter doesn't). Have you appealed, and have you used a charity to help do the forms? Wording is everything.


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## SonnysHumanSlave (22 February 2011)

Yeah I appealed and it was refused, I found out its because shes under one.  If I keep appealing we'll end up in a yo-yo effect as its now over a claim of around £4000 in back payments For DLC, Tax Credits and carers allowance if not more. 

I have been advised to leave it, and re-apply with a fresh claim when she is a year old.


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## MosMum (22 February 2011)

Teddi, is she on a waiting list for a heart?

Her age shouldn't have an affect on the claim as long as she's had additional needs for at least 6 months. Although it depends on what 'additional care needs' she has. I know she won't be eligable for Mobility but surely care? Although if you've been advised by a charity, ignore me and listen to them! I can see how it would be difficult to prove as an infant that she has more needs than that of another 1 yr old, as they are all quite needy and need round-the-clock care.

Forgot to say, we had to go to tribunal for C's HRM. But we won. His paediatrician wrote a very compelling letter on our behalf.


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## SonnysHumanSlave (22 February 2011)

MosMum said:



			Teddi, is she on a waiting list for a heart?

Her age shouldn't have an affect on the claim as long as she's had additional needs for at least 6 months. Although it depends on what 'additional care needs' she has. I know she won't be eligable for Mobility but surely care? Although if you've been advised by a charity, ignore me and listen to them! I can see how it would be difficult to prove as an infant that she has more needs than that of another 1 yr old, as they are all quite needy and need round-the-clock care.

Forgot to say, we had to go to tribunal for C's HRM. But we won. His paediatrician wrote a very compelling letter on our behalf.
		
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Shes only 8 months and I applied when she was 3 months old, so she wouldnt have needed the care for 6months then.

I was advised by the DLA people themselves.  She not on waiting list or anything for an operation yet, she is under medication for it, which has it under control.  Although she may need an operation at a later date, but they are not going to make a definate desicion for another 6months they've told me today. 

Next time I apply I am going to get everyone to write in.


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## MosMum (22 February 2011)

Good idea, feel free to PM if you want a chat anytime, I know its a very different situation for your daughter than my son and really feel for you, but raising a child like either of ours isn't easy x


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## Pearlsasinger (22 February 2011)

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's problems, Teddi but think that I can shed some light on why she isn't eligible yet for DLA.
DLA is usually only available for children aged over 5 because it is to pay for 'extra care'.  Children under that age, and particularly under the age of 1 are considered to need similar levels of care whether they have disabilities or not.  For example all children would need to be carried or to use a buggy for transport.  All children of this age would need to wear nappies and to be attended to during the night and need help with feeding.
I hope this helps.


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## SonnysHumanSlave (22 February 2011)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's problems, Teddi but think that I can shed some light on why she isn't eligible yet for DLA.
DLA is usually only available for children aged over 5 because it is to pay for 'extra care'.  Children under that age, and particularly under the age of 1 are considered to need similar levels of care whether they have disabilities or not.  For example all children would need to be carried or to use a buggy for transport.  All children of this age would need to wear nappies and to be attended to during the night and need help with feeding.
I hope this helps.
		
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I think that is pretty much what they said to me on the phone. Is annoying though as BIL dyslexia doesnt keep him awake at night etc. But then people with asthma dont get it, but I think my OH is constantly tired due to his asthma.  I used an iphone app to record noises during our sleep, every 10mins he was coughing! Surely thats worse the dyslexia.  Just dont get it.


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## Lila (22 February 2011)

I dont agree with benefit cheat in slightest but when i was out of work i got so much money for sitting on my fat backside (around £900/month) that i understand why people have no intention to go back to work. 
I was pulling my hair out after a few weeks and hated not having a job (although i had lots of time to spend with my horses) 
The sights i seen going into the job center i could only laugh. Your ment to go in fit and ready to go to an interview the same day, and people came in drunk as a fart i couldtn believe it


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## ponypilotmum (22 February 2011)

Lila said:



			I dont agree with benefit cheat in slightest but when i was out of work i got so much money for sitting on my fat backside (around £900/month) that i understand why people have no intention to go back to work. 
I was pulling my hair out after a few weeks and hated not having a job (although i had lots of time to spend with my horses) 
The sights i seen going into the job center i could only laugh. Your ment to go in fit and ready to go to an interview the same day, and people came in drunk as a fart i couldtn believe it
		
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Wow, which job centre did you go to? Is there a higher rate in Chelsea or something? Cos as far as I'm aware JSA is only about £60 a week for the rest of the country.


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## Lila (22 February 2011)

Thats including my rent and council tax.


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## ponypilotmum (22 February 2011)

Lila said:



			Thats including my rent and council tax.
		
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oh, so you didn't actually 'get' the money? the landlord / council did. That's different to being handed £900 a month to spend on what you choose. 


Of course, benefit fraud is wrong, but the hysteria it causes never ceases to amaze me. Maybe these people are thinking the same as you, why should i work to pay for those politicians / bank managers/ tax evaders who are ripping off the system? Just maybe.


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## perfect11s (23 February 2011)

lucky-lady said:



			oh, so you didn't actually 'get' the money? the landlord / council did. That's different to being handed £900 a month to spend on what you choose. 


Of course, benefit fraud is wrong, but the hysteria it causes never ceases to amaze me. Maybe these people are thinking the same as you, why should i work to pay for those politicians / bank managers/ tax evaders who are ripping off the system? Just maybe.
		
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  Ohhh yes she did get the money it paid for a roof over her head  not in cash form  maybe but  !!!!!  poiltitians have been going to jail and tax evaders are also  so what is your point  ???some kind of fraud is ok !!!!!


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## Latiano (23 February 2011)

bonny said:



			It is tosh and you can't make the system better .....there will always be people who cheat the system in all walks of life.
		
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and if they are named and shamed they might think twice about doing it


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## ponypilotmum (23 February 2011)

perfect11s said:



			Ohhh yes she did get the money it paid for a roof over her head  not in cash form  maybe but  !!!!!  poiltitians have been going to jail and tax evaders are also  so what is your point  ???some kind of fraud is ok !!!!!
		
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I don't know quite what you expect? Should we make job seekers homeless? Because that would REALLY help them to find work  

If you cared to read what I had posted rather than seeing how many extra letters and exclamation marks you can fit in one sentence to add a bit of drama to your point, you'd see I don't condone any kind of fraud. 

Some just affects us more directly than others. Ie your local MP claiming expenses, because THAT comes directly out of YOUR bank, whereas benefits don't. 

That, my dear, is my point.


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## perfect11s (23 February 2011)

lucky-lady said:



			I don't know quite what you expect? Should we make job seekers homeless? Because that would REALLY help them to find work  

If you cared to read what I had posted rather than seeing how many extra letters and exclamation marks you can fit in one sentence to add a bit of drama to your point, you'd see I don't condone any kind of fraud. 

Some just affects us more directly than others. Ie your local MP claiming expenses, because THAT comes directly out of YOUR bank, whereas benefits don't. 

That, my dear, is my point.
		
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 OK poppet , personaly I would like to see national service brought back,  and I blame Labour for the present mess of  uninmployment esp the young, they realy screwed us with there failed education policys and allowing uncontroled immigration which has driven down wages and shut the unskilled young out of the jobs market...


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## Seahorse (23 February 2011)

The lower rate care which is £18.95 a week you get if you can't cook a meal for yourself. I assume if someone is dyslexic then they cant read cooking instructions??

I only get that even though I'm in a wheelchair and can't stand up for more than a few minutes without being in horrendous pain. 
I've had to appeal to get mobility allowance as when I first applied I was told I wasn't disabled enough :


Benefit cheats bloody piss me off, there's no way I could walk around like that, look after 1 horse let alone about 8 of them! I've had to loan out my precious horse because I can't look after him (or afford him) I've been on £80 a week SSP since May last year which ran out in december. Tomorrow I've got to go for a medical to see if I can get ESA and I got 'awarded' lower rate care of £18.95 a week last month, wow what am I going to do with all that money...


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## Lila (23 February 2011)

perfect11s said:



			Ohhh yes she did get the money it paid for a roof over her head  not in cash form  maybe but  !!!!!  poiltitians have been going to jail and tax evaders are also  so what is your point  ???some kind of fraud is ok !!!!!
		
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Wow you making it out like I chose to be out of a job.
 I was on it for about 6 weeks and hated every minuet of it. Its embarresing going to that job center every 2 weeks!! 

But sorry you must be totally perfect and never had a hard time!!!


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## ponypilotmum (23 February 2011)

perfect11s said:



			OK poppet , personaly I would like to see national service brought back,  and I blame Labour for the present mess of  uninmployment esp the young, they realy screwed us with there failed education policys and allowing uncontroled immigration which has driven down wages and shut the unskilled young out of the jobs market...
		
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And what does that have to do with people claiming disability benefits fraudulently?  

Education has failed people for many many years. And with the current government I can see many many more being failed. The cuts currently being made in education are shocking. 

I would hope you never find yourself long term sick or redundant. And if you did, would you appreciate being 'made' to do national service because of that? 

You can't blame everything on labour government with one hand and punish the unemployed for it. One's to blame, or the other. 

There are scroungers in every walk of life, and yes, politicians go to prison, along with people who evade paying tax, and guess what, benefits cheats.... I just don't understand the hysteria. We don't have this hysteria over politicians and tax evaders, the ones who really do take directly from your wage packet.


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

lucky-lady said:



			And what does that have to do with people claiming disability benefits fraudulently?  

Education has failed people for many many years. And with the current government I can see many many more being failed. The cuts currently being made in education are shocking. 

I would hope you never find yourself long term sick or redundant. And if you did, would you appreciate being 'made' to do national service because of that? 

You can't blame everything on labour government with one hand and punish the unemployed for it. One's to blame, or the other. 

There are scroungers in every walk of life, and yes, politicians go to prison, along with people who evade paying tax, and guess what, benefits cheats.... I just don't understand the hysteria. We don't have this hysteria over politicians and tax evaders, the ones who really do take directly from your wage packet.
		
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Finally a voice of reason amongst all the jumping on the bandwagoners (is that even a word ?)


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## Amymay (23 February 2011)

Seahorse said:



			The lower rate care which is £18.95 a week you get if you can't cook a meal for yourself. I assume if someone is dyslexic then they cant read cooking instructions??

I only get that even though I'm in a wheelchair and can't stand up for more than a few minutes without being in horrendous pain. 
I've had to appeal to get mobility allowance as when I first applied I was told I wasn't disabled enough :


Benefit cheats bloody piss me off, there's no way I could walk around like that, look after 1 horse let alone about 8 of them! I've had to loan out my precious horse because I can't look after him (or afford him) I've been on £80 a week SSP since May last year which ran out in december. Tomorrow I've got to go for a medical to see if I can get ESA and I got 'awarded' lower rate care of £18.95 a week last month, wow what am I going to do with all that money...
		
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When you read this - and listen to the story of the woman on Radio 2 just now who can't afford to eat since loosing her job, it makes me even angrier to think that there are people out there cheating the sytem out of thousands of pounds each year.

Despite what an earlier poster said - it _does_ come out of my pocket, and I do fund their lifestyle because I pay taxes.

Lock them up, and quite frankly throw away the bloody key.


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

amymay said:



			When you read this - and listen to the story of the woman on Radio 2 just now who can't afford to eat since loosing her job, it makes me even angrier to think that there are people out there cheating the sytem out of thousands of pounds each year.

Despite what an earlier poster said - it _does_ come out of my pocket, and I do fund their lifestyle because I pay taxes.

Lock them up, and quite frankly throw away the bloody key.

Click to expand...

It costs an awful lot more to lock somebody up !


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## cindars (23 February 2011)

This is also on the Arab websites as well.  I was really shocked to see who it was used to really enjoy the articles written by him in one of the arab mags.
s someone asked on the arab forum what will happen to the stud if they are jailed?


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## foxy1 (23 February 2011)

I think by jumping on the Daily Mail bandwagon it gives people someone to be angry at?

Benefit cheats, Immigrants etc.??

Unite against the common enemy and all that.

There is not this much outrage about armed robbers for example.


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## Fairynuff (23 February 2011)

cindars said:



			This is also on the Arab websites as well.  I was really shocked to see who it was used to really enjoy the articles written by him in one of the arab mags.
s someone asked on the arab forum what will happen to the stud if they are jailed?
		
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 Nice to see that the so called 'pillars of society' are nabbed alnong with the 'chavs'. I always enjoyed nabbing the former more than your knuckle dragging eedjit whos aim in life is to procreate as many children as possible and preferably not using the same partner more than once.


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## Fairynuff (23 February 2011)

foxy1 said:



			I think by jumping on the Daily Mail bandwagon it gives people someone to be angry at?

Benefit cheats, Immigrants etc.??

Unite against the common enemy and all that.

There is not this much outrage about armed robbers for example.
		
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Armed robbers here in Italy are at 'high risk' of being shot so at least they are risking more than just a public shaming/short prison sentence and having to pay back what they stole by having a small amount subtracted from their weekly giro. Dole frauders are parasites..end of.
I hope they manage to find homes for their horses, that way they can pay us all back in a one off'er!


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## Always Blue (23 February 2011)

I in no way condone benefit cheating, claiming what not entitled to etc etc. but I agree with some here have to say too...why not set up a thread about the disgusting murderers, sex offenders, burgalars and 'proper' criminals??
at the end of the day these people who cheat the system are not harming anyone as such...just trying to get as much as they can out of this 'ridiculous' government we have in this country.
also if there wasn't such thing as benefit cheats then we would still be taxed all the same so whats the difference!!


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## Fairynuff (23 February 2011)

Always Blue said:



			I in no way condone benefit cheating, claiming what not entitled to etc etc. but I agree with some here have to say too...why not set up a thread about the disgusting murderers, sex offenders, burgalars and 'proper' criminals??
at the end of the day these people who cheat the system are not harming anyone as such...just trying to get as much as they can out of this 'ridiculous' government we have in this country.
also if there wasn't such thing as benefit cheats then we would still be taxed all the same so whats the difference!!
		
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these threads can be set up if required. We are not talking about murderers., pedo's and co. We are talking about benefit fraudsters. There is no point in discussing moon travel with the ideal growing conditions of windowsill herbs...me thinks!n XXX


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## Always Blue (23 February 2011)

Fairynuff said:



			these threads can be set up if required. We are not talking about murderers., pedo's and co. We are talking about benefit fraudsters. There is no point in discussing moon travel with the ideal growing conditions of windowsill herbs...me thinks!n XXX
		
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yes but what I was trying to say was that we would still be taxed the same way and the same amounts even if there wasn't any benefit fraudsters...so why does it affect us taxpayers???


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## Serephin (23 February 2011)

Always Blue said:



			yes but what I was trying to say was that we would still be taxed the same way and the same amounts even if there wasn't any benefit fraudsters...so why does it affect us taxpayers???
		
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thats a very naive comment - of course it effects taxpayers!

I am disappointed to see people defending benefit fraud, as if it is nothing to worry about, no big deal.  Thats why people do it, because as a society we are accepting of it - it used to be frowned upon to be jobless and feckless, these days it is heralded as the holy grail of existence.  And to stand up against it you are labeled as alarmist of reactionary.

And for the record I have as much contempt for all the dregs of humanity.  All the entitlement whingers, the layabout good for nothing scum, the off the chain greedy bankers, the selfish out of touch politicians, murderers, rapists etc etc - the whole fecking lot.


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## brigantia (23 February 2011)

Of course, people are right to be angry about benefit cheats, because it steals money away from us all, especially those who have a *genuine* reason to be on benefits. 

Just because people aren't afraid of expressing anger at benefits cheats, doesn't make them blind Daily Mail zombies. Because a lot of us are *also* angry about low corporate taxes, undertaxed bankers, expense account cheating MPs and the rest of it. It's all bad and robs from the common good.


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## Always Blue (23 February 2011)

Serephin said:



			thats a very naive comment - of course it effects taxpayers!

I am disappointed to see people defending benefit fraud, as if it is nothing to worry about, no big deal.  Thats why people do it, because as a society we are accepting of it - it used to be frowned upon to be jobless and feckless, these days it is heralded as the holy grail of existence.  And to stand up against it you are labeled as alarmist of reactionary.

And for the record I have as much contempt for all the dregs of humanity.  All the entitlement whingers, the layabout good for nothing scum, the off the chain greedy bankers, the selfish out of touch politicians, murderers, rapists etc etc - the whole fecking lot.
		
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but your perfect?? also very naive


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## Serephin (23 February 2011)

Always Blue said:



			but your perfect?? also very naive
		
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quality response, thanks.


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

People defraud the system because they can, in the same way that other's lie on their tax returns, or their expenses forms etc. Or turn to crime.....none of it's right but it is human nature to try and get more than you are entitled to if you can. The benefits system is an expensive mess and the statistics of how many people claim disability allowances is frightening. Either we have become a nation of liars or their are an awful lot of people unable or unwilling to work.
The answers are not easy but locking up the few who get caught cannot be the solution. It costs more to lock someone up and if it works the prisons would be empty rather then overcrowded. I think for alot of people they see an easy way out of their situation, yes it's money for nothing and it's wrong but it seems to be easy to do.  Much the same with other people who defraud the system......and that includes most of us to some extent !
The previous reply saying that it doesn't affect what taxes we pay is right. It's a very small amount of the taxes we pay that goes to fraudalent benfit claimers and if they all stopped over night taxes would not go down.  In fact we pay more to have teams of people trying to catch them than the amount that they save.
I still say naming and shaming individuals is wrong


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## Serephin (23 February 2011)

bonny said:



			Either we have become a nation of liars or their are an awful lot of people unable or unwilling to work.
		
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I would say both.




bonny said:



			It's a very small amount of the taxes we pay that goes to fraudalent benfit claimers
		
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it is still a waste of other people's money regardless of how small the amount is to you.




bonny said:



			I still say naming and shaming individuals is wrong
		
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People used to be put in the stocks so they could be publicly shamed in front of theirs peers.  I see nothing wrong with naming and shaming, maybe it will make people think twice. Half the problem is that more and more people have no shame.


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## perfect11s (23 February 2011)

Lila said:



			Wow you making it out like I chose to be out of a job.
 I was on it for about 6 weeks and hated every minuet of it. Its embarresing going to that job center every 2 weeks!! 

But sorry you must be totally perfect and never had a hard time!!!
		
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 Not what I wanted people to think just that cash or payment the system is paying out and if you were 
in need I have no problem ,the system should be there to help the needy, help people get 
back on there feet....  not as a alterntive to contributing to socity...


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## perfect11s (23 February 2011)

bonny said:



			People defraud the system because they can, in the same way that other's lie on their tax returns, or their expenses forms etc. Or turn to crime.....none of it's right but it is human nature to try and get more than you are entitled to if you can. The benefits system is an expensive mess and the statistics of how many people claim disability allowances is frightening. Either we have become a nation of liars or their are an awful lot of people unable or unwilling to work.
The answers are not easy but locking up the few who get caught cannot be the solution. It costs more to lock someone up and if it works the prisons would be empty rather then overcrowded. I think for alot of people they see an easy way out of their situation, yes it's money for nothing and it's wrong but it seems to be easy to do.  Much the same with other people who defraud the system......and that includes most of us to some extent !
The previous reply saying that it doesn't affect what taxes we pay is right. It's a very small amount of the taxes we pay that goes to fraudalent benfit claimers and if they all stopped over night taxes would not go down.  In fact we pay more to have teams of people trying to catch them than the amount that they save.
I still say naming and shaming individuals is wrong
		
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 Sorry but this
attitude  is.... in a nut shell why we are in a mess  ...  shocked and disapointed that you think antisocial behavour  is "just human nature" and there isnt any thing we can do. so if crime touches your life you would just shrug and say oh well.!!!?? the reason we police things  is so people understand there is a negative to doing just as you please, for the good of the majority...


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

perfect11s said:



			Sorry but this
attitude  is.... in a nut shell why we are in a mess  ...  shocked and disapointed that you think antisocial behavour  is "just human nature" and there isnt any thing we can do. so if crime touches your life you would just shrug and say oh well.!!!?? the reason we police things  is so people understand there is a negative to doing just as you please, for the good of the majority...
		
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If it's not human nature then why do so many people do it ?
Most people will try and get something for nothing.....very, very few of us have never cheated the system in some way, even if it's just adding a few extra miles on an expenses sheet.
Oh and crime has touched my life and yes, I shrugged.
You need to see things how they really are if we are to have any hope of changing things.
Me, a cynic ? Guess I am, and I despair how alot of people live their lives ......


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## pip6 (23 February 2011)

Surely these people made a positive choice to lie in order to obtain money fraudulently? As such, why not name them when their lies are uncovered? They put themselves in this position, it's no-one elses fault.

I used to work with secondry school children in an area where many lived on benefits. They had no desire to work (at school), because they saw their parents with a house, car, clothes, beer, fags, tv, holiday each year & all the free time they wanted to do what they wanted as they were on benefits. The children had no desire to go out to work & have to sacrifice time & all these perks just to try & get what their parents had. If they screwed up school, were unemployable, they'd get everything for nothing as well & couldn't see an issue with it. They thought I was the stupid one for having a job & working for a living. 


An aquaintence (very nice person) is living on disability. he has a house, car (on mobility - lovely new Quasqai), eats take aways every night, smokes like a chimney. Yes he is killing himself & aggrevating his conditions which others manage & work with, it is self-inflicted. I couldn't afford to live like he does. Why isn't he penalised for making his condition worse through his own actions? The drive is to stay that ill, otherwise his benefits will decrease & he may be able to do a small job.

Support for people in trouble yes, long term financial security no. The ethos of the system has to change. It needs to pay to work. Those who abuse the system should be shamed, they are cheating everyone who works & pays taxes.


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

pip6 said:



			Surely these people made a positive choice to lie in order to obtain money fraudulently? As such, why not name them when their lies are uncovered? They put themselves in this position, it's no-one elses fault.

I used to work with secondry school children in an area where many lived on benefits. They had no desire to work (at school), because they saw their parents with a house, car, clothes, beer, fags, tv, holiday each year & all the free time they wanted to do what they wanted as they were on benefits. The children had no desire to go out to work & have to sacrifice time & all these perks just to try & get what their parents had. If they screwed up school, were unemployable, they'd get everything for nothing as well & couldn't see an issue with it. They thought I was the stupid one for having a job & working for a living. 


An aquaintence (very nice person) is living on disability. he has a house, car (on mobility - lovely new Quasqai), eats take aways every night, smokes like a chimney. Yes he is killing himself & aggrevating his conditions which others manage & work with, it is self-inflicted. I couldn't afford to live like he does. Why isn't he penalised for making his condition worse through his own actions? The drive is to stay that ill, otherwise his benefits will decrease & he may be able to do a small job.

Support for people in trouble yes, long term financial security no. The ethos of the system has to change. It needs to pay to work. Those who abuse the system should be shamed, they are cheating everyone who works & pays taxes.
		
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Ok, so if we all agree that the system is wrong, how does it change ?
You suggest penalising your friend for making his condition worse, does that include all of us ? People who choose to smoke, are overweight, don't excerise etc are a huge burden on the NHS - should we not pay our taxes to help them ?
There are millions of people unemployed either because they choose to be or because they cannot find a job, what do we do with them all ?
There are no easy answers ...maybe no answers at all so it's easier just to blame the occasional fraudster who gets caught .....


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## Tzarinaarabians (23 February 2011)

She always wears a dress whether doing the horses or at a show.

The whole of the UK arab fraternity is annoyed by what has happened, and as it does not show them in a good light, no one is going to have any sympathy with them, so if the person who feels that this subject shouldnt be on this forum, how would they feel if it was their breed society or organisation they belonged to that was associated with this.  Not happy, I know.


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## ZAHRA (23 February 2011)

bonny said:



			If it's not human nature then why do so many people do it ?
Most people will try and get something for nothing.....very, very few of us have never cheated the system in some way, even if it's just adding a few extra miles on an expenses sheet.
Oh and crime has touched my life and yes, I shrugged.
You need to see things how they really are if we are to have any hope of changing things.
Me, a cynic ? Guess I am, and I despair how alot of people live their lives ......
		
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I AM SO GLAD THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO SHRUG WHEN CRIME TOUCHED YOUR LIFE.

What a stupid and flippant comment to make. Your comment has made me really angry!

Our family house got robbed at 3am in the morning, they stole my dad's merc amoungst other things, a car that my dad had worked really hard to own, he's 60 years old, and has now had to take loan out to replace what originally got stolen.
not to mention the countless time i've had rugs nicked off my horses back, i had well over £3000 worth stuff stolen from my stables not that long ago.

Or do you think a rape victime shrugs after being raped, and then has to deal with what has heppened for the rest of her life? Affecting her relationship with people, and how she see's them.

Sorry but you have no *****ing idea!

Benefit cheats are no better than the people who broke into my house, only imo more sly, i met this nick arnold once and he spoke to me in a upper crust voice-apparently usually talks with a welsh accent


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## perfect11s (23 February 2011)

bonny said:



			Ok, so if we all agree that the system is wrong, how does it change ?
You suggest penalising your friend for making his condition worse, does that include all of us ? People who choose to smoke, are overweight, don't excerise etc are a huge burden on the NHS - should we not pay our taxes to help them ?
There are millions of people unemployed either because they choose to be or because they cannot find a job, what do we do with them all ?
There are no easy answers ...maybe no answers at all so it's easier just to blame the occasional fraudster who gets caught .....
		
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 A great journey begins with one step..


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

Tzarinaarabians said:



			She always wears a dress whether doing the horses or at a show.

The whole of the UK arab fraternity is annoyed by what has happened, and as it does not show them in a good light, no one is going to have any sympathy with them, so if the person who feels that this subject shouldnt be on this forum, how would they feel if it was their breed society or organisation they belonged to that was associated with this.  Not happy, I know.
		
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If you mean me, I don't have any have sympathy for them at all .....
I wouldn't take it personally though, no one is thinking it makes arab people look bad. It happens in all walks of life. There are alot of people with horses who are defrauding the system just as there are alot of people who live in cities who wouldn't know one end of a horse to another.


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

ZAHRA said:



			I AM SO GLAD THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO SHRUG WHEN CRIME TOUCHED YOUR LIFE.

What a stupid and flippant comment to make. Your comment has made me really angry!

Our family house got robbed at 3am in the morning, they stole my dad's merc amoungst other things, a car that my dad had worked really hard to own, he's 60 years old, and has now had to take loan out to replace what originally got stolen.
not to mention the countless time i've had rugs nicked off my horses back, i had well over £3000 worth stuff stolen from my stables not that long ago.

Or do you think a rape victime shrugs after being raped, and then has to deal with what has heppened for the rest of her life? Affecting her relationship with people, and how she see's them.

Sorry but you have no *****ing idea!

Benefit cheats are no better than the people who broke into my house, only imo more sly, i met this nick arnold once and he spoke to me in a upper crust voice-apparently usually talks with a welsh accent
		
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I assume you are young so I'll forgive you your rant !
I said crime had touched my life, not that I'd been raped.
Worse things happen than having things stolen.  I assume your dad's car was insured.
It's not a nice thing to happen but it's common and life goes on ....


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## Dirtymare (23 February 2011)

bonny said:



			I assume you are young so I'll forgive you your rant !
I said crime had touched my life, not that I'd been raped.
Worse things happen than having things stolen.  I assume your dad's car was insured.
It's not a nice thing to happen but it's common and life goes on ....
		
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Now come on!
Everybody has their own oppions, so why do you have to be so flippant and downright rude to those who have an oppinion that differs to yours
I find your "let them do what they want, because there is nothing you can do about it" attitude absolutely appalling.


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

Dirtymare said:



			Now come on!
Everybody has their own oppions, so why do you have to be so flippant and downright rude to those who have an oppinion that differs to yours
I find your "let them do what they want, because there is nothing you can do about it" attitude absolutely appalling.
		
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Where was I rude ? Or flippant ?
Theft is common, that's a fact. And I shrugged, another fact.
I never said let people do what they want, I said as far as I could see there was no easy answers.....If you know the solution then why not share it ?


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## Always Blue (23 February 2011)

bonny said:



			Where was I rude ? Or flippant ?
Theft is common, that's a fact. And I shrugged, another fact.
I never said let people do what they want, I said as far as I could see there was no easy answers.....If you know the solution then why not share it ?
		
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so would you just shrug if someone come and stole everything you owned and the rugs off your horses backs etc etc?


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## Archangel (23 February 2011)

I'm looking forward to seeing Mr & Mrs Flotsam round the Arab shows this year  *spits*


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## Dirtymare (23 February 2011)

bonny said:



			Where was I rude ? Or flippant ?
Theft is common, that's a fact. And I shrugged, another fact.
I never said let people do what they want, I said as far as I could see there was no easy answers.....If you know the solution then why not share it ?
		
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Sorry, and I should have added patronising as well! You may not find your comments offensive, but some of your replies (not all) have been somewhat patronising, and rude.

One idea to stop people stealing from the State is to name and shame. 
sadly, a prison sentence (as you quite rightly point out), would only burden the tax payer more. 
Naming and shaming is doesnt burden the tax payer, and, in some cases actually works.


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## canteron (23 February 2011)

Look at it this way.

I think we should campaign so all people with horses get a horse allowance, like child allowance for children.

Maybe they are just ahead of their time?


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## nikkimariet (23 February 2011)

ZAHRA said:



			I AM SO GLAD THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO SHRUG WHEN CRIME TOUCHED YOUR LIFE.

What a stupid and flippant comment to make. Your comment has made me really angry!

Our family house got robbed at 3am in the morning, they stole my dad's merc amoungst other things, a car that my dad had worked really hard to own, he's 60 years old, and has now had to take loan out to replace what originally got stolen.
not to mention the countless time i've had rugs nicked off my horses back, i had well over £3000 worth stuff stolen from my stables not that long ago.

Or do you think a rape victime shrugs after being raped, and then has to deal with what has heppened for the rest of her life? Affecting her relationship with people, and how she see's them.

Sorry but you have no *****ing idea!

Benefit cheats are no better than the people who broke into my house, only imo more sly, i met this nick arnold once and he spoke to me in a upper crust voice-apparently usually talks with a welsh accent
		
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I actually cannot believe that you just compared rape with benefit theft. What the actual hell are you on. Stealing tax money? Unconsented sex? Seriously.


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## Wolfie (23 February 2011)

They should be horse whipped from on end of the country to the other. Maybe if there were sentences that were actual deterrents then people wouldn't do it.. I fail to see why I should work my buttocks off and struggle to pay the bills when bone-idle slackers claim money and laugh about it? I do not mean everyone who claims btw. JSA has a place certainly, as does DA. A family member was in a  car crash and broke their spine, now has stiff, limited movement and loss of use of one arm. They need it, and I will defend their right to have it, the same way as people actually looking for work should get JSA. However, blatant liars who steal from the system should be flogged.


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## ZAHRA (23 February 2011)

bonny said:



			I assume you are young so I'll forgive you your rant !
I said crime had touched my life, not that I'd been raped.
Worse things happen than having things stolen.  I assume your dad's car was insured.
It's not a nice thing to happen but it's common and life goes on ....
		
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Oh what that was rant was it?lol

Your replys has just shown what your mentality is. I was trying to share some of my exp. in life and crime, and why you shouldn't be so flippant about it.

Yeah s.hit happens, and life does go on, for those that are able to deal with it...

God forbid anything bad crime related happens to you, and if it did, i bet your opinion would be totally different


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

Dirtymare said:



			Sorry, and I should have added patronising as well! You may not find your comments offensive, but some of your replies (not all) have been somewhat patronising, and rude.

One idea to stop people stealing from the State is to name and shame. 
sadly, a prison sentence (as you quite rightly point out), would only burden the tax payer more. 
Naming and shaming is doesnt burden the tax payer, and, in some cases actually works.
		
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Naming and shaming certainly doesn't work.
People think they will get away with things until they are caught.
That's why we have prisons full of people. Alot of crimes are in the papers etc but it doesn't deter other people from trying the same.....


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## ZAHRA (23 February 2011)

nikkimariet said:



			I actually cannot believe that you just compared rape with benefit theft. What the actual hell are you on. Stealing tax money? Unconsented sex? Seriously.
		
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i am not comparing it, i was expalining why crime shouldn't be shrugged off as being so flippant


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

ZAHRA said:



			Oh what that was rant was it?lol

Your replys has just shown what your mentality is. I was trying to share some of my exp. in life and crime, and why you shouldn't be so flippant about it.

Yeah s.hit happens, and life does go on, for those that are able to deal with it...

God forbid anything bad crime related happens to you, and if it did, i bet your opinion would be totally different
		
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Your point is ?
I've had much worse things happen to me then my father's merc being stolen !
You probably will as well unless you have a very sheltered life.
I think we are getting off the subject a bit ....


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## ZAHRA (23 February 2011)

benefit cheats is theft, which is a crime and which shouldn't be shrugged off, where is your sense of right and wrong.


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## rosie fronfelen (23 February 2011)

In all seriousness,i say bring back National Service and get these wasters off our streets.


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## Happy Horse (23 February 2011)

Thieving Barstewards!  I reckon if you get caught cheating the system you pay it back and you automatically lose any right to claim in the future.  There are people in far greater genuine need than these two.


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## nikkimariet (23 February 2011)

ZAHRA said:



			i am not comparing it, i was expalining why crime shouldn't be shrugged off as being so flippant
		
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I *THINK* rape is a far more long term and life affecting, debilitating crime to happen to a person than getting a car nicked. Sorry, but you're totally bonkers.


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## honetpot (23 February 2011)

I think benefit fraud is seen as a clean crime and no one is seen to be hurt. The fact is no matter how much you have paid into the system its like insurance you can only claim when you need it, that why its call national insurance not national I've put my money in so I'll spend it.
 I've heard people says 'I've paid my taxes for years therefore I will 
get everything I can' or the other excuss is 'some people have never worked so why shouldn't I get all I can', as if its a personel bank account.
 I worked on a cruise ship last spring and a lot of the passengers were older and they had no idea that were the lucky ones and the young have to pay for everything. My 83 new Mercades driving step father is one of the biggest scoungers there are and he sees it as his right even though he can afford expensive holidays.
  My husband is a higher rate tax payer and he has put in far more than he is ever likely to get out of the system but thats the deal.


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## rosie fronfelen (23 February 2011)

----and about time--------


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## FairyLights (23 February 2011)

another problem with Benefit cheats isnt just that they are stealing our [the tax payer's] money but that because of the emotion it causes some people with geniune disabilities are put off from claiming what is rightly theres incase their neighbours think they are scrounging. So many,including low income families and pensioners struggle on with limited funds when there is money out there to which they are,by law,entitled. Whilst those not entitled to it gain payment by lies and cheating. Sad state of affairs.


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## bonny (23 February 2011)

rosiefronfelen said:



			----and about time--------
		
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why ? You don't have to read it, so why say that ?


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## Petethehunt (23 February 2011)

Horsesforever1 said:



			another problem with Benefit cheats isnt just that they are stealing our [the tax payer's] money but that because of the emotion it causes some people with geniune disabilities are put off from claiming what is rightly theres incase their neighbours think they are scrounging. So many,including low income families and pensioners struggle on with limited funds when there is money out there to which they are,by law,entitled. Whilst those not entitled to it gain payment by lies and cheating. Sad state of affairs.
		
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This is very true.  

It might seem wrong to show that video but if it put's some people off cheating then it's done a job, but as you say it could stop others from claiming rightly. 
I think these people will now be very ill right up until the sentancing in March. I expect they will get off lightly and do some community service or something, but they still will be breeding horses won't they?


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## intouch (23 February 2011)

canteron said:



			Look at it this way.

I think we should campaign so all people with horses get a horse allowance, like child allowance for children.

Maybe they are just ahead of their time?
		
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I'm with you.

Just occurs to me - would you all be so up-in-arms if their horses were rescues?


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## Pedantic (23 February 2011)

Cant be bothered to read all the dross, but basically they don't look very kin disabled to me.


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## andraste (23 February 2011)

intouch said:



			Just occurs to me - would you all be so up-in-arms if their horses were rescues?
		
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Yes.  

I'm sure most of us would like to help out unfortunate horses/animals/people and do more for charity but, like the the majority of honest people, I don't have that much time to spare because I have to work for a living and pay my taxes.


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## Holly Hocks (23 February 2011)

I love catching benefit fraudsters.....I love it when they get as far as court - and I love it even more when I see them on Saints and Scroungers - makes my day worthwhile.

It says the overpayment is £6000 - unlikely prison sentence - probably about 200hrs community service which I suggest is coming and mucking my horses out for me as I have to get up at 5.30am to muck them out before I go to work where I earn less for catching the thieves than they get in benefits

Bonny, Benefit fraud is theft from every taxpayer in the country.  I'm not saying it's any better or any worse than any other fraud, but it's one which is close to peoples minds.  And as long as it goes on, I'll be doing my damndest to get them prosecuted.


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## Fairynuff (24 February 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			I love catching benefit fraudsters.....I love it when they get as far as court - and I love it even more when I see them on Saints and Scroungers - makes my day worthwhile.

It says the overpayment is £6000 - unlikely prison sentence - probably about 200hrs community service which I suggest is coming and mucking my horses out for me as I have to get up at 5.30am to muck them out before I go to work where I earn less for catching the thieves than they get in benefits

Bonny, Benefit fraud is theft from every taxpayer in the country.  I'm not saying it's any better or any worse than any other fraud, but it's one which is close to peoples minds.  And as long as it goes on, I'll be doing my damndest to get them prosecuted.
		
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from an ex fraud officer (DSS)....go get em! I know just how you feel


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## Amymay (24 February 2011)

intouch said:



			I'm with you.

Just occurs to me - would you all be so up-in-arms if their horses were rescues?
		
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Yes.  The fact they have horses is of no interest to me at all.  Just that they are lying, cheating scumbags.


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## Petethehunt (24 February 2011)

Because they do have horses makes it worse as a lot of ordinary folk work dam hard to pay for their horses whereas these guys didn't, they got the income from the state.
For all you fraud guys on here why have they been alowed to get away with claiming benefits since 1995 and only be charged for a few months, something is wrong here. All come out in the wash I suppose.


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## riding_high (24 February 2011)

i'm of the thought that national service should be brought back, it would help our armed forces, teach these younger people how to give respect and also teach them a trade for later life.

there should obviously be some exceptions to it, the disabled children should not be forced to do national service. also if the child has a secure place at university which would give them a good job afterwards then maybe they should be allowed to do their course. but if they mess up they sign up.

benefit fraud pees me off (any crime does) because my son can't get it because they regard him as a child who should have the care that's needed. he is diagnosed as autistic, same as his brothers. they spout a load of rules at me and think that should put an end to me appealing, it doesn't.

i'm in a similar position to someone above who said about cleaning up **** off the bathroom walls because their child isn't toilet trained. DLA tried to say that it was my fault he isn't toilet trained so i did invite them to stay in my home for a week and show me different, i was told i was being silly for that. i'm fed up with people thinking that my kids are easy and can manage with every day things that we take for granted. they can't. 
i could go on but the poster above said it perfectly well about the stress of looking after an autistic child.


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## Holly Hocks (24 February 2011)

Petethehunt said:



			Because they do have horses makes it worse as a lot of ordinary folk work dam hard to pay for their horses whereas these guys didn't, they got the income from the state.
For all you fraud guys on here why have they been alowed to get away with claiming benefits since 1995 and only be charged for a few months, something is wrong here. All come out in the wash I suppose.
		
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It could be because when they claimed in 1995 they were claiming legitimately and in fact were genuinely ill.  Or it could be that they just can't prove that they weren't disabled prior to starting the investigation, so they have only been able to charge them back to the date the investigation and surveillance commenced.


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## BBH (25 February 2011)

Your link doesn't work for me and I haven't read the whole thread. Benefit cheating is not a good thing but whilst not wishing to open a can of worms a lot of horse business is done ' cash in hand' which cheats the taxmen and ultimately us.

Even calling it a gentlemans agreement doesn't change the fact its cheating the public purse. Can't have it both ways as much as we'd like.


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## Always Blue (25 February 2011)

at the end of the day nobody likes paying the taxman...cos he too is a theiving scumbag!!


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## BBH (25 February 2011)

Always Blue said:



			at the end of the day nobody likes paying the taxman...cos he too is a theiving scumbag!! 

Click to expand...


Well I think what brought it home to me was that when you have your hour of need you get a bit fat zilch so I can fully understand anyone wanting to look after themselves if they are in a position to take cash in hand. 


I suppose I only raise the point though in that if we are going to be holier than thou over benefit cheats we can't then take cash in hand with a clear conscious as ultimately whether it be benefit fraud or tax evasion the public purse is diminished.

If what you put in is linked to what you can take out I think people will see the system as fairer and be more inclined to be honest. The problem most of us have is those who constantly take out and never contribute anything in,


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## perfect11s (25 February 2011)

BBH said:



			Your link doesn't work for me and I haven't read the whole thread. Benefit cheating is not a good thing but whilst not wishing to open a can of worms a lot of horse business is done ' cash in hand' which cheats the taxmen and ultimately us.

Even calling it a gentlemans agreement doesn't change the fact its cheating the public purse. Can't have it both ways as much as we'd like.
		
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  sort of aggree however if you do cash in hand it all goes back in the system in the end, and maybe suports the more 
discretionary spending on hobbys and jobs in the leisure industy  that you would avoid if it was by way of  a credit card,  so we do a cash deal and feel like a little treat so go out for a meal or go in to a tack store and feel more inclined to spend on something  extra and then vat is paid and money goes back in the economy a win, win for all perhaps....


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## Petethehunt (8 March 2011)

Just to update this thread.  Both Mr Arnold and Mrs Arnold got a suspended prison sentance of 95 days suspended for 2 months.
Both are tagged and have a curfew where only one goes out and about from Midday to midnight and visa versa the other.
They had costs to pay of £250 each and paid back all the money they cheated from the system.


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## howengold (8 March 2011)

DipseyDeb said:



			I presume you mean he claimed Disability Living Allowance mobility componant......he wouldn't get that for dyslexia!!
		
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ditto this.  My 17 year old son is is a wheelchair and is what the kind medical people call Mentally and Physically Retarded (not a label I like but it will do).  We had medical checks and he had to get the high rate disability to get a car.  I can't work as he is 24 hour care, and guess how much I get as a carer...£53 per week but thankfully hubby is working, this barely pays the desiel on his van.

I hate benefit cheats as it is taking the money from people who really need it, I have to prove everything that is wrong with my son every couple of years or so and its hard to imagine how these scroungers can do it.


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## HopesnDreams (8 March 2011)

Ladylina83 said:



			Do you know this for sure ? (this is not an attack btw just curious) He is an able bodied 10 year old boy who is on the football team and goes to mainstream school - he has Dyslexia and some mild behavior issues! I am not sure what criteria are used to deem it necessary for the state to give him mobility allowance.
		
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Not all disabilities are visual.  Disability Living Allowance is a very difficult benefit to claim.  Backed up with Doctors reports in many cases.  So im sure there is something else going on that you are not aware.  Not everybody publicises what illnesses, disease or disabilities they have.


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## xxMozlarxx (8 March 2011)

riding_high said:



			i'm of the thought that national service should be brought back, it would help our armed forces, teach these younger people how to give respect and also teach them a trade for later life.

there should obviously be some exceptions to it, the disabled children should not be forced to do national service. also if the child has a secure place at university which would give them a good job afterwards then maybe they should be allowed to do their course. but if they mess up they sign up.

benefit fraud pees me off (any crime does) because my son can't get it because they regard him as a child who should have the care that's needed. he is diagnosed as autistic, same as his brothers. they spout a load of rules at me and think that should put an end to me appealing, it doesn't.

i'm in a similar position to someone above who said about cleaning up **** off the bathroom walls because their child isn't toilet trained. DLA tried to say that it was my fault he isn't toilet trained so i did invite them to stay in my home for a week and show me different, i was told i was being silly for that. i'm fed up with people thinking that my kids are easy and can manage with every day things that we take for granted. they can't. 
i could go on but the poster above said it perfectly well about the stress of looking after an autistic child.
		
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He must be high functioning on the autistic spectrum (ie Asbergers) to not qualify for DLA?


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## Kinkyangel (9 March 2011)

Yes they should be named and shamed!!! I have a 7 yr old son who has autism who I can't claim benefits for as he doesn't have the right label! 

Xx


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## MosMum (9 March 2011)

kinky, have you gotten support from Cerebra? They are fantastic for kids with neurological conditions including autism, PDD-NOS, GDD etc? Were you turned down for DLA? A lot is due to the wording used, pm if I can help at all?


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## Puppy (9 March 2011)

riding_high said:



			i'm of the thought that national service should be brought back, it would help our armed forces, teach these younger people how to give respect and also teach them a trade for later life.

there should obviously be some exceptions to it, the disabled children should not be forced to do national service. also if the child has a secure place at university which would give them a good job afterwards then maybe they should be allowed to do their course. but if they mess up they sign up.
		
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Wow.... Just wow....


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## Achinghips (9 March 2011)

Petethehunt said:



			Just to update this thread.  Both Mr Arnold and Mrs Arnold got a suspended prison sentance of 95 days suspended for 2 months.
Both are tagged and have a curfew where only one goes out and about from Midday to midnight and visa versa the other.
They had costs to pay of £250 each and paid back all the money they cheated from the system.
		
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Bet they'll still keep their horses, who will now suffer as a result!!


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## dumpling (9 March 2011)

That's a disgrace!


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## janet horse (21 March 2011)

bonny said:



			You know them personally ? I fail to see why you've posted this unless you have an axe to grind......
		
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I think the interest is that Nick and Mair are arabian horse judges


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## Fairynuff (21 March 2011)

janet horse said:



			I think the interest is that Nick and Mair are arabian horse judges
		
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but above all, they are thieves.


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## Perissa (21 March 2011)

janet horse said:



			I think the interest is that Nick and Mair are arabian horse judges
		
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Were not are.

Taken from the AHS shows and events website...

AHS JUDGES, DCs AND STEWARDS The 2011 book AHS List of Judges, DCs and Stewards is available from Windsor House, or by completing this form   

Amendments received since publication:

********* has a new address.  950 Atherton Road, Hindley Green, Wigan, Lancashire.  WN2 4TA.

Mr N Arnold is no longer on the List.

********* home number is not in use for judging enquiries.


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