# Any vets able to advise?



## fankino04 (27 May 2019)

My malamute (42kgs) went to the vets on Friday afternoon as he was showing some discomfort in his back and reluctant to move, he was put on 2x 40mg onsior tablets once a day and 2 x 300mg gabapentin twice a day, the gabapentin doesn't seem to make much difference in terms of pain levels, the onsior does but only seems to last 5 hours or so (it made a big difference on the Friday evening but he has regressed again and it seems to have less effect from yesterday), can he have more? Or would splitting the dose over 24 hours help? Will ring vet tomorrow obviously but just wondered if I can help him more today?


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## fankino04 (27 May 2019)

Also I've got some tramadol and some diazapan for my back, is it an option to give him either of these to help him and if so in what dose?


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## EllenJay (27 May 2019)

I would ring the vet today, there must be someone on call who can give advice over the phone


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## Auslander (27 May 2019)

I'd ring your vet today - they will have an out of hours service. They are the only people who can do anything to help your dog


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## fankino04 (27 May 2019)

Have called the out of hours just waiting for a vet to call back, hate seeing him in pain, bless ðŸ˜¢


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## Stiff Knees (27 May 2019)

Keeping my fingers crossed that your dog feels much better soon, it is awful to see them in pain.


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## Aru (27 May 2019)

Ring the emergency vets if you can't get your own.
Giving dosage rates online from human medications to give to dogs is not something that should happen if a vet likes their license to practice. Medications are sometimes very individual animal and illness dependent so that sort of info on the web can put animals at risk.

Fingers crossed your boys feeling better soon.


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## fankino04 (27 May 2019)

Emergency vets called back and said to give him more gabapentin which I've done but it hasn't worked this time or previously. He's feeling really down and sorry for himself. I considered trying cbd oil but the Internet suggests that it works as an anti inflammatory so don't want to do that as he's already on the onsior, just hate not being able to help him.


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## Pearlsasinger (27 May 2019)

I would take him back to the vet and prepared to pts if nothing further can be done, I'm afraid.


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## Umbongo (27 May 2019)

If he is in that much pain that the onsior and gabapentin are not helping him, then I would call the vets back, you may need to take him in.


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## fankino04 (27 May 2019)

That's the thing though the onsior works just doesn't last very long and is only a once a day dose, the gabapentin seems to have no effect on him but then it doesn't help my back pain either, naproxin didn't work for a bad ankle for me but now does for my back so I think it's just a case of getting the right dose of the right drugs.


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## Pearlsasinger (27 May 2019)

fankino04 said:



			That's the thing though the onsior works just doesn't last very long and is only a once a day dose, the gabapentin seems to have no effect on him but then it doesn't help my back pain either, naproxin didn't work for a bad ankle for me but now does for my back so I think it's just a case of getting the right dose of the right drugs.
		
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then you definitely need to take him back to the vet.  He might need injected version of the drugs to give him a good start to build on with the oral drugs.


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## Aru (27 May 2019)

If he's that painful it might be worth bringing him to the emergency vets, they should be able to prescribe and give stronger pain relief. Gaba often takes time to help with pain in humans. its an odd drug.

I wouldn't recommend adding CBD to his current cocktail. CBD isn't well researched in dogs yet for cross-reactions etc however, it is expected to cause issues with the metabolism of NSAIDs like onsior  You could do more harm than good.


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## {97702} (27 May 2019)

Another to say that I would definitely be taking him in to see the vet for a face to face consultation Iâ€™m afraid - expensive perhaps, but most definitely  worth it if he is in that much pain â˜¹ï¸


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## Stiff Knees (27 May 2019)

Gabapentin seems to work well in some dogs and have no effect in others, my 12 year old Lab has been on Gabapentin for 2 months and it has worked wonders for him (elbow and general arthritic pain) he has it with Metacam and a low dose of Pardale that we can increase if necessary.  We tried Gabapentin also with our 16 year old Lab (under vet supervision obvs) and she reacted very badly to it, wobbly, like she was drunk, we took her off it after just one dose her reaction was that extreme.  For a long time she was on Cimalgex, Pardale V and Tramadol and that worked very well for her, until it stopped working. We've found that small doses of multiple drugs is more effective than large doses of one, but it can take weeks to find a combination that works and that combination may not work for very long either before needing to add in something else. It is a fine balancing act. I think a face to face consultation is required, I'm hoping you can get him pain free quickly.


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## fankino04 (27 May 2019)

That's interesting stiff knees, maybe the reason he seems more wobbly is actually caused by the gabapentin, I gave him some tramadol and he has perked up a bit, went for a short walk (the vet said little and often exercise) and he kept jogging so that seems to work better for him, have booked appointment in the morning to discuss alternative drugs. Still hoping it's a one off pulled muscle rather than a long term degenerative issue, he did have a little scuffle with my other dog the day before his symptoms started so maybe he slipped awkwardly on the laminate floor and has injured it that way, the decline is very sudden if it's not a one off injury...


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## Stiff Knees (27 May 2019)

Wobbliness, lack of coordination and lethargy are very well documented side effects of Gabapentin in dogs. I'd say that if you're not noticing an improvement but you are seeing those side effects that maybe Gabapentin is not the right drug for your dog, have this discussion with your vet, it should only be withdrawn under vet supervision as sudden withdrawal can cause seizures. Most NSAIDs seem to be a once a day dose as the anti inflammatory effects last after the drug has left the system. Keeping my fingers crossed for you both, I know how heartbreaking  it is to not be in control of your dogs pain.


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## {97702} (27 May 2019)

In all honestly SK I have never not been in control of my dogs pain - you know your own dog, and if itâ€™s clear the pain relief isnâ€™t working then I take them back to the vets immediately. Personally I wouldnâ€™t give tramadol to a dog unless it was under veterinary advice, but thatâ€™s just me


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## Stiff Knees (27 May 2019)

Levrier said:



			In all honestly SK I have never not been in control of my dogs pain - you know your own dog, and if itâ€™s clear the pain relief isnâ€™t working then I take them back to the vets immediately. Personally I wouldnâ€™t give tramadol to a dog unless it was under veterinary advice, but thatâ€™s just me
		
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I think you've been extremely fortunate Levrier,  there have been many occasions when I have felt as though their pain relief is not as effective as it could be and it can take time to find an alternative that works and I don't mean that it can take me time to find the time to visit the vets, mine all go at the first inkling that something is not working for them, my wages may as well be paid direct to the vets, they've never been treated with anything that the vet hasn't prescribed, Tramadol was a vet prescription, I wouldn't dream of self medicating my beloved dogs. I've just lost my 16 year old lab because we could no longer control her pain and believe me, we tried everything but the sad fact was that we could no longer find a combination of pain relief, that would have also afforded her any sort of quality of life, so we made the heartbreaking decision to put her to sleep. I tried, I failed, perhaps if she'd lived with you she would be living pain free but I doubt it. Your comment is hurtful.


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## {97702} (27 May 2019)

Oh no SK I didnâ€™t mean you re: giving Tramadol, I meant the OP who has said she has given her dog some? Presumably without a vet prescription, although maybe she discussed it over the phone with the vet

I donâ€™t think I have been lucky at all, Iâ€™ve had a lot of elderly and other dogs who have had very serious illnesses over the past 30 years including loosing 3 dogs in the past 2 years due to age-related issues.  Iâ€™m pretty well known for putting my dogs first at all times, so I would have made the same sad decision that you had to for the sake of the dog. It is never an easy decision to make, I know that very well after my recent experiences


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## fankino04 (27 May 2019)

Both the vet on Friday and the emergency one this morning said tramadol would probably be fine for him but Friday vet said they would try gabapentin first as they reckon it often has better results, and the emergency vet agreed it is suitable but couldn't prescribe without seeing him due to legislation, so I figured it was worth giving it a go as it was safe with his other drugs and he has had it in the past (injured foot) with no side effects, he is much perkier now and wagging his tale when you speak to him so will contact vet in the morning regards changing from gabapentin.


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## {97702} (27 May 2019)

Thatâ€™s cool, you hadnâ€™t mentioned that youâ€™d discussed it with them before OP but Iâ€™m really glad itâ€™s helping him ðŸ˜Š


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## {97702} (27 May 2019)

Sorry I had to dash out so didnâ€™t have time to add, I apologise for posting something that you found hurtful SK that was most definitely not my intention at all.  Sadly I know how hard it is when you loose them â˜¹ï¸


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## GSD Woman (27 May 2019)

The dosage for gabapentin in dogs is 10-20 mgs/kg. Usually it is started at the lower dose as it can make some dogs groggy.  Tramadol can be added in with both the gabapentin and onsior.  The dog dose for tramadol is higher that the human dose.  For dogs 1mg/lb. And the human formulation for tramadol is the same for dogs and humans, at least in the USA.


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## Stiff Knees (27 May 2019)

fankino04 said:



			Both the vet on Friday and the emergency one this morning said tramadol would probably be fine for him but Friday vet said they would try gabapentin first as they reckon it often has better results, and the emergency vet agreed it is suitable but couldn't prescribe without seeing him due to legislation, so I figured it was worth giving it a go as it was safe with his other drugs and he has had it in the past (injured foot) with no side effects, he is much perkier now and wagging his tale when you speak to him so will contact vet in the morning regards changing from gabapentin.
		
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It's great that he is much perkier, we found Tramadol to be very effective but again I think it is one of those drugs that helps some dogs and not others. It is a very useful drug to have in your arsenal if your dog can tolerate it. I'm so glad that things are looking up for you both. xx


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## Stiff Knees (27 May 2019)

Levrier said:



			Sorry I had to dash out so didnâ€™t have time to add, I apologise for posting something that you found hurtful SK that was most definitely not my intention at all.  Sadly I know how hard it is when you loose them â˜¹ï¸
		
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I've realised that perhaps I'm not coping quite as well with losing Spot as I thought (and I didn't think I was coping well but clearly I'm doing worse than I thought), my response was disproportionate and I apologise, I took your post as a criticism that I did not know my dog and had therefore failed in my duty of care to her. You have read my thread where I pay tribute to her, and you said kind things I think, so you know how important she was to me. We all strive to do the right thing and sometimes the right path is the most difficult path to take. I have to live with the decision I made that morning and it is weighing heavily. ðŸ˜¢


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## {97702} (27 May 2019)

Oh that is so sad SK and I know just how you feel - a picture of my little Flick (who I lost in April) came up on my FB feed today and I cried all over again â˜¹ï¸  My post was very badly phrased so I can understand you feeling like that, I absolutely did not mean that and I know you did your very best for Spot, she was lucky to have you ðŸ˜Š xx


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## fankino04 (27 May 2019)

So sorry for your losses lev and SK, no matter the circumstances they always break our hearts when they go, lost my girl over 5 years ago and still get emotional over it and have been getting myself in a right state over Ashes back in case it's degenerative and have to make that decision in the not too distant future (he's too old to put through a big op so it would be pain management for as long as it gives him a decent quality of life), thankfully this afternoon he has come on leaps and bounds, up and moving around easily, I'm having difficulty trying to stop him running round the house now so I definitely think the gabapentin was giving him the wobbles which made it look like his back was really bad.


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## Stiff Knees (27 May 2019)

I'm so pleased that Ash is improving, there are so many combinations of multi modal pain relief available nowadays that it really is quite mind boggling. I hope tomorrow's appointment goes well, do let us know how you both get on.


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## Stiff Knees (29 May 2019)

I wondered if there was an update??? How is Ash doing?


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## Peter7917 (30 May 2019)

You could try a longer lasting NSAID? I had great success with Trocoxil with my collie before she went. It lasts something like four weeks. During the later stages of her life she took tramadol alongside this.


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## fankino04 (30 May 2019)

He's doing much better thanks, was a bit too active on Monday night when the gabapentin had left his system so a quite sore again on Tuesday but bright and perky the last few days, walking quite carefully / gingerly but definitely getting back to his usual self. The vet gave him tramadol instead of gabapentin, he's meant to take that twice a day so he has something approx every 8 hours but OH can't follow simple instructions (I'm staying at a friend's to look after her dogs this week) so he has had tramadol with breakfast and onsior with tea and that seems to be enough. Just a waiting game to see if this is an ongoing health issue or one off injury.


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## Stiff Knees (30 May 2019)

It's great that Ash is improving, the drugs will take some time to build in his system so it is good news that he is doing well at this early stage. ðŸ˜


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## fankino04 (31 May 2019)

Well having had a good few days, I came home this morning and he really struggled to get up, wasn't too bad when he got going but getting up and down is still very hard for him. OH says he was his normal self for breakfast, which unfortunately often means small backwards jumps on his hind legs so he might have just done a bit too much again. Very pleased I'm home again from tonight and try to limit his movement more....


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## fankino04 (31 May 2019)




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## fankino04 (31 May 2019)

Only seems right to add a pic as we are talking about him, think we might be back at the vets tonight or the morning just currently waiting for him to call us again but he is really struggling this morning ðŸ˜¢


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## Stiff Knees (31 May 2019)

He is very beautiful, so sorry to hear that he is struggling, hoping for better news soon.


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## fankino04 (5 June 2019)

Just an update for anyone following and because it does me good to get some stuff off my chest, having appeared to be getting better once off the gabapentin he seems to go backwards everytime he does some exercise when he feels better (trotting in from the garden etc) so in the interest of enforcing rest for a few days (OH can't seem to understand taking him in the garden on a lead to avoid too much activity ðŸ˜ ) he is back on the gabapentin to keep him dopey, whi h means him not wanting to move and me panicking that he's really bad but it's only for a few days to let the back rest properly, he has dog chiro coming out on Friday for a 2nd opinion then reassess after that and discuss with vets again.


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## Stiff Knees (5 June 2019)

Poor lad, fingers crossed that the chiropractor can offer him some relief.


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## fankino04 (5 June 2019)

Thanks SK, when the gabapentin wears off he seems quite perky and gets up much easier so I think the onsior is working well just bloody boyfriend has been letting him have free rein in the garden so he undoes some of the progress, am home at tea times now for next 4 days so can make sure he only goes in the garden on the lead so will see how much he improves, vet did start mentioning possible ligament damage and 6 weeks of rest but not how we would diagnose that...


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## Stiff Knees (5 June 2019)

It's very difficult to medicate at a level that takes away the worst of the pain,  but not so much that they are left feeling invincible so they begin to throw themselves around and do more damage or aggravate the condition. Hugs to you and to Ash.


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## Stiff Knees (14 June 2019)

How are you both doing??


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## fankino04 (15 June 2019)

He seems to be getting there slowly, chiropractor is back on Tuesday so will be good to get her view but he's moving well on straight lines just still pivots on hind leg when turning rather than stepping through the turn if that makes sense, he had a few days of diarrhoea so was a bit sorry for himself and had to come off the onsior as vet thought that may be the cause so has only been on a low dose of pardale for the last few days and he hasn't gone backwards so I'm cautiously optimistic that we might be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.


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## Stiff Knees (15 June 2019)

Fingers still crossed for you both but it is sounding more positive. ðŸ¾ðŸ˜


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## fankino04 (16 June 2019)

May have spoke too soon, having had a few really good days and me getting really excited that yesterday he finally started stepping through on his turns he seems to have taken a step backwards again ðŸ˜­


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## Stiff Knees (16 June 2019)

Oh no, hopefully the chiropractor can help more on Tuesday. Poor you.


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## fankino04 (16 June 2019)

He had a pardale when I was up with him at 3am and he seems good again now so hopefully it was just a case of him having been under dosed for a few days due to trialing his belly without the onsior, will get more pardale in the morning and ask to swap onsior for a different anti inflammatory that hopefully won't upset his belly, I am that owner that just stares at him, over analysing every bit of movement. He is generally the dopiest, laziest dog who just likes to chill on his own in his hallway and pop in to see you for 5 min as and when he likes, but now if he's lying in the hallway minding his own business I worry that he's not getting up coz he's in pain, or depressed or any other thing that pops into my head ðŸ˜”


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## Stiff Knees (16 June 2019)

I am exactly the same, I think it is perfectly normal behaviour when you're worried about them. When Jake had to have his spleen removed my first words to the vet at 4am were "can I bring my Lab in to see you, he looks a bit pi@@ed off" because I new he wasn't right, anyone who didn't know him as well as we do would have just thought he was tired because it was 4am. The vet told me that many splenic tumour surgeries are unsuccessful because the bleed is too far gone for them to fix, and in fact the vet who looked after Jake following his surgery had lost his own dog to a ruptured splenic tumour because he had missed the signs, sometimes these signs can be so subtle that you just have to go with your gut instinct. I'd rather take them to the vet and pay for them to find nothing wrong than risk missing something serious. ðŸ¾â¤ï¸


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## fankino04 (18 June 2019)

Chiropractor has just been, she's really pleased with his progress, did 2 smaller adjustments and said she won't need to see him for 6 - 8 weeks now (unless he gets worse), he can also start going for short walks again. Am so happy ðŸ˜


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## fankino04 (22 June 2019)

Well I'd say he's about 90% back to normal now, odd bit of movement every now and then but seems happy and pain free, he's on 1 dose of meloxidyl per day  and 1 pardale twice a day so next step is to check with vet which one he comes off first, chiro said the soft tissue damage will be painful for up to 6 weeks so obviously want to keep him comfortable while that repairs. It's such a huge relief given what I was fearing when he was reacting to the gabapentin but I didn't know it was the drugs making him so bad.


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## Stiff Knees (22 June 2019)

So relieved for you both ðŸ¾ðŸ˜


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## fankino04 (30 June 2019)

Hit a new problem ðŸ˜¢, the meloxidyl also gives him a bad belly, he had seemed OK on just the pardale but only been a few days, however ran out of pardale today and its out of stock at the vets and online ðŸ˜ , have given him meloxidyl again this morning to help with the pain and probs tramadol tonight until I can talk to the vet again in the morning. The prediction at his check up on Wednesday was that he will need some maintenence pain meds for the next 5 - 6 weeks but struggling to find ones that agree with him ðŸ˜¢, chiropractor is coming back next week too as I'm not convinced he didn't aggrevate something on the car journey to the vets as he was such a stress head and wouldn't lie down...


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## Stiff Knees (30 June 2019)

He's not making this easy for you is he? Can your vet prescribe some ranitidine alongside the meloxidyl or is the problem a runny bum rather than an acid reflux one? ðŸ¾


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## fankino04 (30 June 2019)

Problem is a runny bum, he did say he could give him something to bind it up a bit but even as loose as it is the pain in his back is making him reluctant to push so loose is good until it builds up so much that it explosively comes out all over the laminate floor ðŸ¤£


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## Stiff Knees (30 June 2019)

We've used canned pumpkin to very good effect for both runny and hard stools. Good Luck to you, Ash and your laminate floor!!


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## fankino04 (4 July 2019)

And the saga continues, vet took him off metacam due to his unsettled tummy last Wednesday, stayed on low dose of pardale as no more available anywhere, Sunday morning he was showing pain symptoms again so had to give him some metacam again. Spoke with vets on Monday who said to try metacam with gastro guard and added paracetamol in instead of pardale. Wednesday morning I came down to vomit everywhere so now vets say he can't have any pain meds as his stomach needs time to clear up. He seemed bright and happy last night (last metacam was Tuesday morning and last paracetamol Tuesday afternoon) but by this morning he was a bit reluctant to move and when he does his pelvic area looks a bit unstable and wobbly. Chiro saw him on Tuesday morning and said he was making good progress and she only did a small adjustment and although grumbly with her he didn't shriek in pain anywhere near as much as he did on either of the last 2 treatments. Just don't know what to do now, he seems almost back to normal if on anti inflammatories but he can't have them ðŸ˜¢, am tempted to give cbd oil a go but I know this is about me wanting to feel like I'm doing something to help him.


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## CorvusCorax (4 July 2019)

If he is shrieking in pain at chiro and isn't sound unless on medication then I'd be having a good think about the long term. Forgive me if I've forgotten as I've a lot in my head....did he ever have x-rays, where, and did they show anything? What age is he?


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## {97702} (4 July 2019)

He is shrieking in pain when the chiro treats him???!!! Wow....

ETA - I will reiterate what I have been saying for a while, which is that sadly for me he doesnâ€™t appear to be enjoying a good quality of life.  I agree with CC and MM that I would be strongly considering making the kindest decision for him now â˜¹ï¸


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## MurphysMinder (4 July 2019)

I've been reading this thread but not commenting as would only be duplicating what others have  said.   It would appear he has been struggling for coming up to 2 months now,  I hate to say it but if he was mine I would be seriously considering pts.  Tough decision I know but it doesn't sound as if his quality of life is good.


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## MotherOfChickens (4 July 2019)

what is the diagnosis from the vet? Has he had x rays? I've read over this thread and am struggling a bit OP, that your dog has been in a lot of pain, that has barely been kept under control and is seeing a chiro that evidently hurts him-why is he seeing a chiro? is the chiro a vet? I thought a chiro couldn't diagnose and that only a vet can?

I'd be having a long hard chat with myself about his quality of life right now, I know its hard-we've all been there .


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## fankino04 (4 July 2019)

He shrieked when she corrected his pelvis rotation the first time, second time was a small howl and this week a yelp during the adjustment but he is quite growly as soon as she goes to touch him but more in an expecting it to hurt than actual pain, he hardly reacted to the vet examining him last week. He has x rays which showed nothing, vets and chiro say there is still soft tissue damage from the pelvis misalignment that they expect to take 3 more weeks minimum. Initially the 24 hour dose of anti inflammatories was only giving him relief for up to 12 hours, now it seems to last the full 24hours then over the next day the symptoms build again. He's not acting in pain as such just uncomfortable so he's improved a lot from 3 weeks ago just hate that I can't support his recovery with anti inflammatories due to his stomach issues. Waiting on vet to call to discuss alternative homeopathy options. It's also not great that taking him to the vet seems to make it worse as he won't lie down in the car so stumbles etc.


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## CorvusCorax (4 July 2019)

X-rays of what/where? What age is he?


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## fankino04 (4 July 2019)

Also I know this thread reads like he's been miserable for 2 months, but honestly he has improved so much since the chiros first visit, he was shuffling his back feet before then but now takes full steps, steps through his turns instead of pivoting etc, gets up using his back legs instead of pulling himself up from the front end, hears the car and is straight up to meet me at the door, gets up for a walk when you pick up his lead etc, it's just he seems like he needs a daily dose of ant inflammatories (as do many older dogs with arthritis etc) and he can't have those due to tummy issuesðŸ˜¢


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## fankino04 (4 July 2019)

CorvusCorax said:



			X-rays of what/where?
		
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Spine, hip / pelvis


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## MotherOfChickens (4 July 2019)

so the vet says a pelvis misalignment? 

I really don't mean to be mean and it is much easier for us not knowing the dog and being in your position. But looking objectively at what you've written, you have a large dog in pain and who can't be treated easily because even getting him to the vets is traumatic. I have a bias against chiropractors I admit, as they did my husbands back a lot of damage. Have you thought of acupuncture?


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## fankino04 (4 July 2019)

MotherOfChickens said:



			so the vet says a pelvis misalignment?

I really don't mean to be mean and it is much easier for us not knowing the dog and being in your position. But looking objectively at what you've written, you have a large dog in pain and who can't be treated easily because even getting him to the vets is traumatic. I have a bias against chiropractors I admit, as they did my husbands back a lot of damage. Have you thought of acupuncture?
		
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The vets were initially somewhat like my gp when I hurt my back, they gave meds and said little and often gentle exercise, seeing the improvement since the chiro and how much his gait has changed for the better they seem to agree that was the problem, they say mri is still an option but given his improvements they don't think its worth it at the moment. I'm quite open to acupuncture although it didn't help me...


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## MurphysMinder (4 July 2019)

I've had quite a few oldies with arthritis,  they have never been at the state when passing a motion causes them pain.  Is it definitely soft tissue not joint,  as  cartrophen injections  are good for pain relief in the latter.   .


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## MotherOfChickens (4 July 2019)

acupuncture didn't help me either but I am a big believer in acupressure being useful. there are various other modalities -emmett, bowen, canine touch that might help but to me it sounds like further diagnostics are necessary.


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## CorvusCorax (4 July 2019)

There's no nice way of saying this, but with a large weight-bearing dog, you have to think about the strain on the body in the longer term compared to a smaller, lighter dog like a JRT or a Collie.
All of the symptoms you describe would concern me greatly, particularly over this sort of time frame. I would definitely push for MRI if I could afford it and depending on how old he is. But even then you have to be realistic about treatment long term.


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## fankino04 (4 July 2019)

CorvusCorax said:



			There's no nice way of saying this, but with a large weight-bearing dog, you have to think about the strain on the body in the longer term compared to a smaller, lighter dog like a JRT or a Collie.
All of the symptoms you describe would concern me greatly, particularly over this sort of time frame. I would definitely push for MRI if I could afford it and depending on how old he is. But even then you have to be realistic about treatment long term.
		
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I honestly get where you are coming from and might well feel the same if I didn't see the almost back to normal spells, the time frame is an issue due to the vets initially saying exercise him when I think he really needed full rest so that delayed the recovery, also not diagnosing the pelvis issues early enough meant he couldn't start to heal, then we've had over the top symptoms from side effects of the meds etc, having to stop the meds that helped, trialing different ones etc. I have seen that on a daily dose of anti inflammatories he is almost back to normal and not in pain, the vets and the chiro don't think the issue is one that needs a lifetime of pain meds but if that were the case I'm happy to have him on pain relief for the rest of his life as long as the level needed doesn't leave him pretty much sedated and not interested in life. There are many horses on 1 bute a day to keep them happy, many dogs on a daily dose of metacam to control their arthritis and many people on pain meds so they can lead a good life again, believe me if he wasn't interested in life, was getting worse not better or needed so much medication that he was almost sedated I would make the pts decision but at the moment I'm seeing a dog who has improved a lot in 3 weeks, is interested in life and going for a walk again, whose vets agree he is improving, we just need to find the meds he can tolerate to support him.


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## CorvusCorax (4 July 2019)

He appears almost normal and not in pain because the drugs are masking it. My understanding is that you administer the drugs and fully rest the dog until it recovers. The dog does not feel pain on meds, so if it self regulates exercise, the issue never resolves. Every time he exercises he is aggravating the issue and then when the drugs wear off, he feels it again. I don't know how better to describe it. It's masking things, not making them better.

Edited because it's really none of my business and I shouldn't get so invested, apologies, only you can do what you think is right.


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## fankino04 (4 July 2019)

CorvusCorax said:



			He appears almost normal and not in pain because the drugs are masking it. My understanding is that you administer the drugs and fully rest the dog until it recovers. The dog does not feel pain on meds, so if it self regulates exercise, the issue never resolves. Every time he exercises he is aggravating the issue and then when the drugs wear off, he feels it again. I don't know how better to describe it. It's masking things, not making them better.

Edited because it's really none of my business and I shouldn't get so invested, apologies, only you can do what you think is right.
		
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I'm not meaning to sound antagonistic here, and I fully get that you have my boys best interest at heart but do you think it's a problem for horses to be on a maintenance dose of bute too? I take a dose of naproxin most days for my back, if I don't exercise enough I actually need to take a second dose, I doubt I will ever be totally drug free but it doesn't stop me living my life and although sometimes there's a bit of discomfort and I need a top up I'm never really in pain, I'm pretty much seeing the same scenario in my dog over the past few weeks and the experts who don't stare at him every day overanalysing things like me all say he is progressing well and we just need to give it time and keep up the gentle exercise. He is stiff when he first gets up but if he moves with purpose (ie to get a treat, go for a walk etc) he improves in just a few steps if he is allowed to "bimble" around he looks weak.


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## CorvusCorax (4 July 2019)

I cannot and would never compare a human who can rationalise things and understand why they are in pain, to an animal, who cannot. Just my own view!


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## Blazingsaddles (4 July 2019)

I still donâ€™t understand â€˜pelvis misalignmentâ€™. What does it mean?


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## fankino04 (4 July 2019)

Blazingsaddles said:



			I still donâ€™t understand â€˜pelvis misalignmentâ€™. What does it mean?
		
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His pelvis had rotated so one side was more forward and tilted upwards, it caused his spine to curve to one side putting undue pressures on various other parts of his body, not sure how it happened but one theory is that it may have happened slowly from him adjusting his weight / gait to compensate for pain from a bulging disc in his back.


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## gunnergundog (4 July 2019)

In which case until you solve the root cause (disc??) you will only ever be putting temporary elastoplasts on the situation.  A scan would be adviseable to see what you are actually dealing with.  No vet/chiro can advise you without such definitive information.


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## {97702} (4 July 2019)

Blazingsaddles said:



			I still donâ€™t understand â€˜pelvis misalignmentâ€™. What does it mean?
		
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I find itâ€™s a term commonly used by chiropractors with horses as well, even though it is physically impossible for the pelvis on a 600kg horse to become â€˜misalignedâ€™.  It basically means the muscles holding the pelvis in place arenâ€™t doing their job properly in my experience, due to some other cause as the OP has suggested - and as GGD has correctly said, if you donâ€™t solve the root cause you never solve the problem

Chiropractors can cause way more problems than they ever solve for horses IMO, I stopped using them and tended to use a qualified physio instead as I would use for myself.  Results were consistently much better, so Iâ€™d always do the same for my dogs now (even though the rescue used a chiropractor for Marty!)


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## fankino04 (4 July 2019)

gunnergundog said:



			In which case until you solve the root cause (disc??) you will only ever be putting temporary elastoplasts on the situation.  A scan would be adviseable to see what you are actually dealing with.  No vet/chiro can advise you without such definitive information.
		
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They say its a chicken and the egg thing in that the disc may have gone first causing uneven movement and the pelvis misalignment or he could have slipped and twisted his pelvis which put more pressure on his spine and did the disc.... In any case the treatment for a burst or bulging disc is anti inflammatories and gentle exercise and the treatment for a misalignment pelvis is a chiropractic adjustment, he's had both of these, I've been told 3 months recovery and that both vets and chiro are happy with his progress, he seems happy still tonight, was just a bit stiff when first getting up this morning which is what the ant inflammatories are meant to be addressing but he's had to come off them. He's met me at the door everytime I've come home today, been begging for scraps at dinner (which he never gets but God loves a tryer lol), is taking proper full steps and using his hind legs properly to get up and when turning, I'm just a bit neurotic and impatient.


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## Pearlsasinger (4 July 2019)

Why hasn't the vet given him something to counteract the stomach problems?  It is usual in people for Ranitidine to be given alongside pain meds to mitigate the effects on the digestive system.  I had a vet give me some for a Rottweiler once.  Just saying that he can't have the meds isn't good enough.  Surely they could inject the pain killer/anti-inflams.


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## fankino04 (4 July 2019)

He's had a gut protector but it didn't work, they think his system needs a break, seeing how he's  been the past few days I think he's doing well without them, if he starts seeming in pain then we'll go back and try a different approach but he seems to walk off the stiffness quite easily.


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## gunnergundog (4 July 2019)

From what you've written Fankin, I would stop the chiro immediately and get a second veterinary opinion from  a referral practice re the disk asap. 

Out of interest, has your veterinarian authorised the chiro treatment?  I would be amazed if so. The potential for damage to the spinal chord is immense.  And yes, I do/have used chiro treatment on both myself and my various animals in the past where appropriate so not adverse to it at all.


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## fankino04 (10 July 2019)

Had final checkup at vets this morning, he had no pain response anywhere along his back, belly is finally back to normal again as of the weekend although he is probably staying on chappie for a while. He's getting up and down really easily now, constantly steps under and through his turns so vet is really pleased with him. He has physio set up for next week to help with the muscle wastage as that's what's causing the odd occasional wobble that he still has bur happily these wobbles don't seem to cause any pain, they happen when he does things like turn really tight and cock his leg to pee on the Bush and he doesn't have enough strength to keep balanced or enough sense to stop doing it lol. We are being optimistic that the back injury caused the muscle wastage not that the lack of muscle left him unsupported and caused the back injury but that's a thing that only time will tell, for now he is coming on in leaps and bounds and made so much progress this week so I'm over the moon.


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## fankino04 (4 August 2019)

Finally, just over 3 months later my boy is finally completely back to normal, so much so that he is now back to carrying his tail over his back ðŸ˜, no more wobbles or loss of balance or lack of co ordination in the last few weeks and can now do a 20 minute walk without resembling a marathon runner crossing the line at the end.


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## Stiff Knees (4 August 2019)

Yay, well done for sticking with it. Long may his good health continue ðŸ¾


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