# Advice mare accidentally covered



## Gallop_Away (13 April 2017)

Also posted in the tack room.
It never rains but it pours eh? So today a stallion somehow ended up in the field with my mare (don't ask angry doesnt even cover it). I came home from work to find him and my mare doing the deed (dirty cow that she is). As you may have already guessed I do not want her in foal.
Ive already spoken to my vets who advised I need to leave it about 2 weeks and then they can come and give her a hormone injection to prevent pregnancy.
I have a few questions. Firstly how effective is it? Is there anything that can be done if it fails? I definitely 100% do not want her in foal. I dont want to put her through the risks of pregancy and foaling!
Also is there anything to be mindful of in the meantime i.e. infection? 
Trying to think of everything at the moment. I have no experience with this so any advice appreciated


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## popsdosh (13 April 2017)

A PG injection in a couple of weeks will be pretty reliable .Not sure I would leave it two weeks though. Maybe safest to scan her two weeks after that to be sure  PG will work up till about 12 weeks plus so could be repeated.


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## crabbymare (13 April 2017)

you need to wait for 10 days from when she ovulates for the best results and it is sometimes found that 2 jabs are needed to make sure so be aware of that. the vets may be thinking that at 14 days they can scan and see f she is in foal before doing the jab but if she were mine even if they found nothing I would still have the jab just in case. to keep you more relaxed about the time frame its worth remembering that they use it to abort twins at around 24 days so although you are right to be worried and keeping on top of things if she is in foal and if the pg does not work first time its not panic stations and you can try it again. I hope she is a few days off ovulating and that she is not in foal though. very good that you knew about it as well as seeing them as so many times the stallion would have been taken out and nothing said


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## Gallop_Away (14 April 2017)

Thank you both for replying. I just want to make 100% sure she does not end up in foal. There are so many risks involved and enough overbred horses in the world without adding to it. 
The vets said they will just give her the injection in around 2 weeks as regardless of whether she has caught it will not do her any harm.
Im assuming they will then want to come back and scan her a week or two after the PG to be sure she is not pregnant and repeat the injection if necessary? Could I also ask them to check bloods to be 100% sure as have heard of scans not always being reliable especially early on? 
Im probably overthinking it but if PG fails  is there anything else that can be done?


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## ycbm (14 April 2017)

If PG fails the foetus can be pinched out.

And the stallion owner pays the bill!


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## Clodagh (14 April 2017)

ycbm said:



			If PG fails the foetus can be pinched out.

And the stallion owner pays the bill!
		
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Absolutely, I know in your other thread you said it is owned by a young girl, well she must have parents that are paying for the pony to be kept.


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## Gallop_Away (14 April 2017)

Yes he is owned by a young girl who from what we can gather isn't especially "horsey" so a bit confused as to why they would have a stallion!? From what we can gather he got out, made his way through the forestry above the farm and got through the fenceline somewhere and has now ended up getting in to my mares field. 
At the moment my main priority is making sure my girl is baby free, but I do agree that it should not be me paying the vets bill but will cross that bridge once all this has been dealt with.
Just out of curiosity how much roughly could this potentially cost? PG injection, scanning, potentially pinching the embryo off? I have savings so am not worried about the initial cost but I do agree that the stallions owner should be the ones to pay it!!


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## Goldenstar (14 April 2017)

A vet will tell you the costs likely to be invovled I would be contacting the owner or their parents formally and telling them you will be recovering the whole costs from them once the mare is confirmed not in foal .
If they squeal just say you will go to the small claims court .


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## ycbm (14 April 2017)

At least two visits, one PG, one scan ... could be more,   your bill around here would be between two and four  hundred, I think.


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## LadySam (14 April 2017)

Gallop_Away said:



			Yes he is owned by a young girl who from what we can gather isn't especially "horsey" so a bit confused as to why they would have a stallion!?
		
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If they're not particularly horsey they probably wouldn't know the challenges involved in owning a stallion.  Anyway, I hope it all works out for you.


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## Gallop_Away (14 April 2017)

LadySam said:



			If they're not particularly horsey they probably wouldn't know the challenges involved in owning a stallion.  Anyway, I hope it all works out for you.
		
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This is what makes me so sad. You see people all the time advertising colts "free to good home" and people take them on without knowing the implications. They just see a "free pony". 
If I'm honest I do feel a bit sorry for them. Hopefully we can agree to something amicably.


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## popsdosh (14 April 2017)

ycbm said:



			At least two visits, one PG, one scan ... could be more,   your bill around here would be between two and four  hundred, I think.
		
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Should be a lot less than £100.

 I would leave it till 21 days and scan if not come into season then PG if needed. Assuming your vet knows what they are doing. That would be the most cost effective way for you.  Was she early in season? if she carries on in season for several days its unlikely she will have caught.

GS not sure how you can get a young girl into Small claims court.


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## Gallop_Away (14 April 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Should be a lot less than £100.

 I would leave it till 21 days and scan if not come into season then PG if needed. Assuming your vet knows what they are doing. That would be the most cost effective way for you.  Was she early in season? if she carries on in season for several days its unlikely she will have caught.

GS not sure how you can get a young girl into Small claims court.
		
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My mare isn't the easiest to tell when she is in season. She isn't a particularly oozy wet mare and her behaviour doesn't change much. She will usually be a bit on her toes for a day or two and thats it. Im quite lucky with her to be honest.
She has been a bit more on her toes for the last 2/3days but not especially swollen on her back end. Its difficult also because I had no plans to breed her I don't tend to keep a close eye on her seasons :/


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## crabbymare (14 April 2017)

Gallop_Away said:



			My mare isn't the easiest to tell when she is in season. She isn't a particularly oozy wet mare and her behaviour doesn't change much. She will usually be a bit on her toes for a day or two and thats it. Im quite lucky with her to be honest.
She has been a bit more on her toes for the last 2/3days but not especially swollen on her back end. Its difficult also because I had no plans to breed her I don't tend to keep a close eye on her seasons :/
		
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one way to check mares that do not show is to look at  their vulva. normally it will be a bit scrunched (technical term) and dry but when they come in season it will relax and look a bit longer and fuller and will normally have a bit of a sheen to the outside - you may know this already but if anyone is searching they may find it useful. you do need to know what is normall for them though and not be washing them off after work which will remove the sheen. I would estimate the cost as being whatever the visit is plus a scan at £30 to £40 plus pg if needed around £10 to £15. so well worth telling the owners that they will be paying all vets bills rtelating to this. If the person looking after the pony is a young girl then her parents will be liable so a letter to them would be a good idea. plus it may make them sort out the fencing and may make them think about having him gelded. once he has learned how to get out to a mare he may decide its worth doing more often so they do need to act to get their field properly secured


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## ycbm (14 April 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Should be a lot less than £100..
		
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Two visits with no treatment given would cost more than that.

I wouldn't take the mare appearing to come back into season as a guarantee I'd get no foal, I'd want a scan or pregnancy test first and then another after an abortion.

You take the parents to court, Popsdosh,they are legally responsible for the actions of their child.


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## popsdosh (14 April 2017)

ycbm said:



			Two visits with no treatment given would cost more than that.

I wouldn't take the mare appearing to come back into season as a guarantee I'd get no foal, I'd want a scan or pregnancy test first and then another after an abortion.

You take the parents to court, Popsdosh,they are legally responsible for the actions of their child.
		
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Didnt say it was a guarantee. However I would not be paying out for PG unless the mare is definitely in foal hence delaying until most competent vets could be sure with a scan. The chances are less than 50% she will be infoal. My vets charge £20 for a scan or less if doing others im lucky pay no visit fees unless its emergency. 
You will certainly struggle to get a negligence verdict against the parents of a child in a small claims court.


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## ycbm (14 April 2017)

popsdosh said:



			You will certainly struggle to get a negligence verdict against the parents of a child in a small claims court.
		
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Why do you think that? Parents are legally responsible for the behaviour of their children. The keeper of a horse (in this case, the parent) has a legal responsibility to keep it from straying. Looks like a slam dunk of a small claim to me?


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## popsdosh (14 April 2017)

ycbm said:



			Why do you think that? Parents are legally responsible for the behaviour of their children. The keeper of a horse (in this case, the parent) has a legal responsibility to keep it from straying. Looks like a slam dunk of a small claim to me?
		
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I think you need to check up on what you would be suing for as it would not be a small claim( you need a contract to establish a small claim) it would need a county court judgement against the child for negligence and then the veterinary cost would be part of the settlement, even then the parents would not be liable and you cannot enforce a county court judgement for money against anybody under 18.
The parent is not the keeper of the horse . You may be getting mixed up with the passport laws where nobody undersixteen can have a passport in their name ,however a passport is not proof of ownership!


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## ycbm (14 April 2017)

But you don't need a contract for a small claim, do you?  I'm not sure where you got that idea from.  Recently an HHO  member won a judgement for a stray horse eating her haylage. She needed neither a contract nor any County Court judgment for negligence. 

The parent is the keeper of the horse, in all probability.  I doubt the child is paying the bills.  And in any case, the parent is the responsible party, not a child. Parents are responsible for the action/inaction of their children. In a criminal Court, if an offence is committed by a child, any fine is given to the parents. I believe, unless you can show me otherwise, that the same will apply in the small claims court.


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## Gallop_Away (15 April 2017)

The owners phoned my YO... turns out he isnt even passported!! They don't have turnout for him only a small makeshift stable on a tiny allotment. So have been turning him out in the forestry.
YO has put the little sod in a stable for now. On closer inspection he only appears to have one testicle. 
My YO isn't really happy to hand the pony back as she isn't satisfied they have facilities to keep him. She is also concerned he will just simply escape again. They were supposed to come and collect him yesterday but didn't turn up. So not really sure whats happening at the moment :/


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## Equi (15 April 2017)

Even if they do come back is it really a suitbe place to leave an animal? Might be better to call the authorities and attempt to get them to realise that it's not acceptable to keep him as they are and to hand him over or get better advice on what to do. Maybe they're refused at yards cause he is a stallion but they have been told he can't be gelded til two balls drop (or won't pay the extra fee for gelding a cryptoid)


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## Gallop_Away (15 April 2017)

equi said:



			Even if they do come back is it really a suitbe place to leave an animal? Might be better to call the authorities and attempt to get them to realise that it's not acceptable to keep him as they are and to hand him over or get better advice on what to do. Maybe they're refused at yards cause he is a stallion but they have been told he can't be gelded til two balls drop (or won't pay the extra fee for gelding a cryptoid)
		
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This is why my YO has concerns. Obviously the welfare of the pony comes first and it doesn't sound like they have the knowledge/facilities to keep him.


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## Gallop_Away (29 April 2017)

So vet came out on tuesday which was 12 days after the covering. She gave my mare her jab and that was that. Mare was a bit twitchy and restless for an hour or so afterwards but vets said it was normal. 
I just wanted to ask roughly how long after the jab I can expect her to come into season again? 
She was a bit frisky as if she were in season sunday but as I've said she is a very difficult mare to tell when shes in season. 
If she doesnt come into season does that mean jab hasnt worked? Vet was pretty confident so soon after covering the jab would be very effective.


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## Equi (29 April 2017)

The jab really is very effective. I would try and relax the chances of her being pregnant are very low.


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## Gallop_Away (29 April 2017)

equi said:



			The jab really is very effective. I would try and relax the chances of her being pregnant are very low.
		
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Thanks! Ive been panicking so much over this you could swear it were me that was potentially pregnant  
By the way incase anyone is wondering our little friend, who we have now nicknamed adolf, is still here. It would seem the owner is happy for my YO to keep him. He has an appointment with the vets to sort passport and have him gelded in the next few weeks.
He really is the sweetest little thing, you know, when hes not trying to hump my mare


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## popsdosh (29 April 2017)

Im guessing if mare was showing signs she may be in season last sunday the injection was most likely not needed but better to be safe. If she was indeed in season then do not be worried if you dont notice her in season to the injection.


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## Pinkvboots (29 April 2017)

Gallop_Away said:



			Thanks! Ive been panicking so much over this you could swear it were me that was potentially pregnant  
By the way incase anyone is wondering our little friend, who we have now nicknamed adolf, is still here. It would seem the owner is happy for my YO to keep him. He has an appointment with the vets to sort passport and have him gelded in the next few weeks.
He really is the sweetest little thing, you know, when hes not trying to hump my mare 

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sounds like his landed on his feet


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## Gallop_Away (29 April 2017)

Thank you poshdosh, i was thinking just that but just wanted some clarification. 

And thank you all so much for your sharing your advice with me over the last few weeks. Youve all been so helpful  x


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