# Perro de Presa Canario



## kimberleigh (9 August 2012)

Does anyone here own one?
Or know any personally?

Trying to find real breeders here in the UK is damn hard and I have only spoken to one, as the couple others I emailed didn't reply!!
There are a few others that breed them, but aren't the sort of breeders I would care to purchase from; especially a dog of this size/type.

Have been researching them for a couple years now but have yet to get any truely unbiased opinions!!

Kim


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## s4sugar (9 August 2012)

I've met them in the USA and a few here. I have had some in boarding.
 Unfortunately they appeal to the types who would otherwise have dogs that are not allowed here. Some actually fall into prohibited type.
They are not a breed I would consider unless I knew I could avoid areas with other dog walkers. 
Why one of these when there are lots of other breeds?


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## kimberleigh (9 August 2012)

A true presa canario should never fall into the 'of type' category!! 

Other dog walkers wouldn't bother me, my male Stafford is intolerant of strange dogs so is kept away from Joe Public's pooches

This breed appeals to me mainly because they have yet to become popular in their pure form - and hence have yet to be ruined by idiots!
They make wonderfully loyal family guardians, and are extremely trainable if given a dominant and capable handler. They have few genetic health issues and are suitable for an active lifestyle. 

I want a larger breed than my Stafford, who is amazing for what he is - but would likely show any burglar where the family silver was in return for a cuddle and a sausage haha!! 

Presas fit what I'm after in temperament and visually also 

Kim


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## s4sugar (9 August 2012)

They fit the bandog part of DDA - not the pitbull part.

Unfortunately you have been misled as to their health. 
Presa Canario Health Issues: Hip and elbow dysplasia is sometimes a problem, as well as epilepsy, hypothyroidism, OCD, luxating patellas and wobbler syndromes.

I have seen PL in dogs at ARBA shows -remembering it as it is rare in larger breeds. 
What would your Staffie think to one?


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## kimberleigh (9 August 2012)

Am bit confused as to which part of the dda you mean - as it only refers to 4 breeds and their 'types' - American pitbull terrier, fila brasiliero, Japanese tosa and dogo argentino.
None of which the presa fits into!

All large breed dogs can suffer from HD and ED, and patellar luxation is common is a huge number of breeds so I don't count those. The other conditions are as rare in presas as any other breed of dog - from the extensive research I've done they are very healthy genetically in comparison to similar breeds.

The Stafford would accept it if thats what I expected of him - he is much more tolerant at home than he is outside as I believe he makes the distinction between what is my territory and what is public domain. He would never challenge my authority on my own territory and accepts my decisions 

Kim


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## EAST KENT (9 August 2012)

Well if you do get one be sure to get a female, your boy will not be thrilled if you get a male!


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## kimberleigh (9 August 2012)

Haha, no certainly no more males! He was extremely tolerant of the intact male Stafford who was returned to me almost 4 years after selling him as a pup...keep in touch with all owners and lady asked me to have the dog for a weekend - I agreed, was no problem to keep them separate for a couple days...she dropped him off then text to say she wouldn't be back to collect him!!

My lad began by wanting to eat him but they soon settled (though they were never left alone for even half a second) and he stayed for almost a year; he now lives with my parents! 

Kim


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## NOISYGIRL (10 August 2012)

I would recommend searching out Victoria Stillwell's programme in which a presa was included, very interesting and not a dog I would entertain having, personally.

The couple that had the puppy didn't have a clue they had about 4 other dogs one of which was going for the others including the presa, the advice given in this programme should be taken seriously IMO.

It completely changed the view of the owners after seeing them to their full potential in an attack mode


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## kimberleigh (10 August 2012)

I've seen that episode and saw nothing that would pit me off the breed in the slightest!

All I saw was an idiot owner who bought the dog for the image it portrayed and pit zero effort into training and socialisation.

I am not a Victoria fan in any case lol!! 

I most certainly never judge a whole breed by its individuals

Kim


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## Amymay (12 August 2012)

The dog is outlawed in Australia and New Zealand. You have to wonder why they are not in the uk.


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## Star_Chaser (12 August 2012)

I've got to be honest if you want it for a guard and to give your burglars a bit of a shock then you are setting the dog up to fail and yourself in the long run, one bite of the wrong person and your dog faces being pts  you have legislation to abide by including licence even if the dog is not specifically trained for the job:  

*Guard Dogs*
Only section 1 of the Guard Dogs Act 1975 has ever entered into force. This means that all the other sections relating to a licensing scheme are not in force and neither are there any plans to do so. Section 1, which is in force, relates to the control of guard dogs.

Guard Dogs Act 1975
Section 1 states:

(1) A person shall not use or permit the use of a guard dog at any premises unless a person (&#8216;the handler&#8217 who is capable of controlling the dog is present on the premises and the dog is under the control of the handler at all times while it is secured so that it is not at liberty to go freely about the premises.

(2) The handler of a guard dog shall keep the dog under his control at all times while it is being used as a guard dog at any premises except:

(a) while another handler has control over the dog; or

(b) while the dog is secured so that it is not at liberty to go freely about the premises.

(3) A person shall not use or permit the use of a guard dog at any premises unless a notice containing a warning that a guard dog is present is clearly exhibited at each entrance to the premises.

The owner of a guard dog may be liable for any injury to a person under s 2(2) of the Animals Act 1971, unless they come within one of the exceptions in s 5.

Horse and Hound Forum threads are picked up on google so its probably not the best place for you to be advertising your intentions for this future dog.  This might literally come back to 'bite' you on the bum.

Here's a little lightweight reading... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/50/contents


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## kimberleigh (12 August 2012)

Horseloaner - at no point in time did I say I wanted a guard dog lol!

Don't make assumptions...

The dog would be an integral part of our family and would be expected to act accordingly; including accepting our visitors!

Guard dogs are not kept as house pets and this dog would not be taught to guard in any way shape or form.

I highly doubt we are likely to get burglars in my area either haha but if we did and my family was in danger I would expect my dog to step up to the mark

I suggest you ask a few more questions before offering your opinion...could have saved you typing that post if you hadn't leapt to incorrect conclusions!!

Kim


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## Amymay (12 August 2012)

Your second post implies quite strongly that you are looking for a dog to deter burgalers, and made the same assumption.


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## Amymay (12 August 2012)

And 'I' made the same assumption. Sorry on phone.


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## kimberleigh (12 August 2012)

Amy can you point that out to me as I've read it back and cannot see anywhere I've even implied I want a trained man-biter!!

Assumptions...making an ass out of you and me s the saying goes!!

Kim


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## CorvusCorax (12 August 2012)

I am not a fan from what I know of them but I didn't read the OP's second post as looking for an out and out manstopper either.
I don't expect my dogs to eat all around them and it was not my reason for 'choosing' them - they are just the dogs my family have always had - but I have been walking a German Shepherd since I was about 12 and I have always felt safe with a GSD.


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## kimberleigh (12 August 2012)

Thanks cavecanem, it certainly wasn't intended in that manner!

The dog will be expected to become highly trained, to competitive obedience level/standard so most definitely won't be a vicious killer lmao!

I think people have a very common misconception in this country about certain types or breeds of dogs and it only serves to make me more adamant to prove they really ought to get to know the dogs before they judge!!

Kim


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## Amymay (12 August 2012)

Sorry op, did read it you wanting a guarding type dog. My bad.


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## amy_b (14 August 2012)

Iv met a few and they have all been the softest lumps of lard known to man! 
I would suggest that similarly to rotties, staffies, GS, etc etc in the wrong hands they can be trained to be killing machines and because of thier natural strength they would then cause 50x damage than your average lab. However, Im sure we all know a nice staffy and a nasty staffy, I reckon these are the same, should only be sold to the most responsible of owners. 
They are also...theeeee cuttttest puppies!!!!!! 

ETA: you have to wonder about the stats behind 'dangerous' dogs, how many of the dangerous dogs are owned by dangerous owners.
p.p.s. sprry - dont know anyone that breeds them! lol! have you tried the breed society?


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## Ranyhyn (14 August 2012)

After reading, albeit briefly, about the struggles of Lennox, I would not trust simply that a dog ISN'T a banned breed, that it couldn't be deemed to be one, should some idiot, decide it is.

That reason alone would put me off.

However, having met both a PDPC, CC and a DA, I must admit I am very jealous if you do get one, I believe they are fantastic dogs and in the right hands, really very special.


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## kimberleigh (14 August 2012)

Thanks for the reply Amy b - could I ask whether you know what lines the ones you've met are/if they are British bred or imported?

I've not been able to find the British breeding I am after so would likely be looking to import - though there are maybe 1 or 2 dogs in the UK I would consider!

From the people I've spoken to they are much the same as many large and powerful breeds; maligned without true cause which is a damn shame. 

BoolavogueDC - thanks for your input, I do agree that breed itself isn't a blanket to hide under where the DDA is concerned but I feel as long as the dog is in the right hands then there would be little cause to seize - especially since so many are imported into the country as opposed to being bred here.

I am looking at perhaps years of searching to find the right dog but that's what I'm willing to do 

Kim


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## kimberleigh (14 August 2012)

Thanks for the reply Amy b - could I ask whether you know what lines the ones you've met are/if they are British bred or imported?

I've not been able to find the British breeding I am after so would likely be looking to import - though there are maybe 1 or 2 dogs in the UK I would consider!

From the people I've spoken to they are much the same as many large and powerful breeds; maligned without true cause which is a damn shame. 

BoolavogueDC - thanks for your input, I do agree that breed itself isn't a blanket to hide under where the DDA is concerned but I feel as long as the dog is in the right hands then there would be little cause to seize - especially since so many are imported into the country as opposed to being bred here.

I am looking at perhaps years of searching to find the right dog but that's what I'm willing to do 

Kim


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## HeatherAnn (14 August 2012)

"Family guardians"
"I want a larger breed than my Stafford, who is amazing for what he is - but would likely show any burglar where the family silver was in return for a cuddle and a sausage haha!!"
But you don't want the dog to guard? Surely you can understand why people would make this "assumption" after you brought up your staffy's guarding abilities..?
I made the same assumption from this post.


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## CorvusCorax (14 August 2012)

Some dogs are natural family guardians or livestock guardians in the way that some equally are not. I would consider a GSD or a Rottweiler a natural family guardian. 
I don't think there is any problem when someone wants a dog which is a pet but also makes them feel safe. Doesn't mean they will end up on a chain in the yard or slavering and bearing it's teeth on the end of a lead.

Re the point about 'type', as partly illustrated by the Lennox case - if a dog displays certain measurements and characteristics, it can be classified as a banned 'type'.
It would be a shame to go to the bother of importing a dog and then have it impounded or have its' liberty curtailed.
Is the breed recognised by the KC in the UK? If not, like the APBT, there is no breed standard to measure it against or breed registry or database against which to blood test, therefore there is no way of proving what it is not (the weight of the case against a 'Dangerous Dog' is that you as the owner have to prove what it is NOT, not what it IS)
If they are KC recognised, then I am talking through my hat


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## kimberleigh (14 August 2012)

HeatherAnn said:



			"Family guardians"
"I want a larger breed than my Stafford, who is amazing for what he is - but would likely show any burglar where the family silver was in return for a cuddle and a sausage haha!!"
But you don't want the dog to guard? Surely you can understand why people would make this "assumption" after you brought up your staffy's guarding abilities..?
I made the same assumption from this post.
		
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Lol!

Family guardian is the same for any breed of dog I would own - I would want the dog to be a loyal/faithful family member...Guardian and Guard dog are extremely different!

As for the bit about my Stafford, anyone with even an ounce of sense (and knowledge of Staffords) would know they make the most useless guard in the world; that whole part was very tongue in cheek. I forget occasionally I am not talking to Stafford people who would've automatically understood my meaning

Kim


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## kimberleigh (14 August 2012)

CaveCanem said:



			Some dogs are natural family guardians or livestock guardians in the way that some equally are not. I would consider a GSD or a Rottweiler a natural family guardian. 
I don't think there is any problem when someone wants a dog which is a pet but also makes them feel safe. Doesn't mean they will end up on a chain in the yard or slavering and bearing it's teeth on the end of a lead.

Re the point about 'type', as partly illustrated by the Lennox case - if a dog displays certain measurements and characteristics, it can be classified as a banned 'type'.
It would be a shame to go to the bother of importing a dog and then have it impounded or have its' liberty curtailed.
Is the breed recognised by the KC in the UK? If not, like the APBT, there is no breed standard to measure it against or breed registry or database against which to blood test, therefore there is no way of proving what it is not (the weight of the case against a 'Dangerous Dog' is that you as the owner have to prove what it is NOT, not what it IS)
If they are KC recognised, then I am talking through my hat 

Click to expand...

Thankfully someone gets my meaning hehe!! Yes there are plenty of breeds I would class as family guardians - and many wouldnt even enter anyone's head if they were asked to picture guard dogs!

Presas are not recognised by the KC, and aren't likely to be either - however imported pups come DNA verified for breed as well as having registrations relevant to their country of origin. They arrive complete with fukll documentation including passport/chip/tattoo etc so there is never any doubt as to their breed. Thankfully they do not fit into 'type' of any of the 4 banned breeds in this country - their measurements are vastly different so no such mistake could be made as with dogs such as Lennox (who unfortunately was an ill thought out cross breed, who happened to fall into the 'pitbull type' category)

Kim


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## HeatherAnn (15 August 2012)

"As for the bit about my Stafford, anyone with even an ounce of sense (and knowledge of Staffords) would know they make the most useless guard in the world; that whole part was very tongue in cheek. I forget occasionally I am not talking to Stafford people who would've automatically understood my meaning" 
You don't have to be patronising. Obviously I don't have your obviously extensive and complete knowledge of the breed, but why bring up your stafford's guarding ability then say it's not relevant?
I know enough about staffords to know they aren't good guarding breeds, I was just querying why you mentioned it in the first place...


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## kimberleigh (15 August 2012)

Heather Ann it was a joke and I wasn't being patronising! I'm sorry if you didn't see it as such but can't please everyone I suppose. 

Kim


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## amy_b (15 August 2012)

before you read this I met this guy and I dont think he has come across very well here, probably on purpose because he has bought the dogs as a visual deterrant (sp) but as far as I understood wasnt going to be training them to be viscious, he was a very nice guy with very nice dogs (not deterring me from a cuddle!!!!) my understanding of the article was that there si no point buying them as a deterrant if you are going to go to press saying how soft they are! 
http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/Rare-dogs-brought-help-Gloucester-security-firm/story-16367135-detail/story.html

Another girl I know has a cross and a pure and no idea on lines but they seem just as...dare I say pathetic?!! 

On banned breeds, I 100% agree with others that if they are banned I wouldnt get one, if they are similar to a banned breed I would want KC reg to prove they'r not as I wouldnt want the worry of losing my dog the same way as lennox.


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## kimberleigh (15 August 2012)

Thanks Amy B for that link - I must say that the bloke comes across as a bit of a div and the dogs aren't my type of presa visually! 

Independent 'security firms' to me are not the sort of people I would seek a puppy from - they would focus purely on the intimidation angle of the dog so it is unlikely they will have been bred true to type and temperament which is immensely important to me. I do not want a time bomb on the end of my lead, I want a trustworthy partner who lives to please me. 

Will try and post some links to what I feel is more presa typical 

Kim


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## kimberleigh (15 August 2012)

Red star kennels in the USA are to me a prime example of the trainability and versatility of this breed - and they use positive reward based training to accomplish what they want from the dogs. They have a website and have uploaded numerous videos on YouTube.
Some of their breeding isn't my type visually but I cannot fault the temperament

Kim


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## amy_b (15 August 2012)

kimberleigh said:



			Thanks Amy B for that link - I must say that the bloke comes across as a bit of a div and the dogs aren't my type of presa visually!
		
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I dont like the imported ones purely because thier ears are cropped, looks crap. Thats the only different I pick up as the untrained eye.


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## CorvusCorax (16 August 2012)

That guy says in the comments:

"As a company we don't want our dogs to bite, the dogs are there as a deterrent. Someone asked why do I not use old fashioned GSD. They are great for sport they just have a lot of attributes I don't need, like tracking, prey drive, agility to jump obstacles."

A dog that can't won't bite, can't follow a scent, does not want to chase and cannot climb over an obstacle, would not be much of a deterrent, if I was a criminal!
But suppose should put people's minds at rest who think you are after a manstopper


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## kimberleigh (16 August 2012)

CaveCanem haha very good point, though hence why I said the guy sounded a bit of a div - surely any criminal reading that would think 'woohoo, sure his guard dogs look tough but since they are in actual fact about as deterring as a stuffed toy we ought to go rob anywhere with a presa!'

Which is a positive aspect, for those who expect the presa to be a slavering devil dog! But in actual fact is not a true representation of the breed's talent/temperament/ability! The most important thing to have in any dog (especially large powerful dogs) is drive - without drive training becomes a million times more difficult

Kim


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## orionstar (17 August 2012)

The dogs were used for herding and sheepdog duties in their native island, and are a very ancient and endangered breed of dog in their true form. They are not a banned breed, but very quickly will be given the type of person now breeding them and the response from some people who have replied to this thread. My sister's dog hasnt put a foot wrong in 6 years, and I will use the addage of the owner not the dog again and again.


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## kimberleigh (17 August 2012)

Thanks for that post orionstar - is good to see someone who knows the dog before judging!
Did she import or was he born here? (am assuming you're in the UK!)

Kim


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## orionstar (17 August 2012)

She was born here, and is a lovelly family pet, that lives with two lurchers.


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## Rach88l (19 August 2012)

Hi Kim,

I can't help you with your search but I just wanted to give you a heads up in case you weren't aware that a lot of insurers won't cover a Presa.

I've got a 4month old Russian Black Terrier, I didn't check before I bought him but luckily I had no problems insuring him. I did notice a lot of companies named the Presa as an excluded breed though.

I wish you all the luck in finding your ideal companion, to have researched the breed extensively and to be so patient in finding the right breeder/puppy is commendable, and just what this sort of dog needs in an owner.
If only more people could do this in their search for puppies, whatever the breed!

All the best,
Rach


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## paul sturdy (22 January 2013)

The presa canario is a fantastic breed honest loyal strong minded breed with a great powerfull build i would recomend this breed to anyone who either requires a deterent or loyal pet i own a 5 year old male imported from brazil truly outstanding breed i also know of uk breeders if any information is required


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## kimberleigh (23 January 2013)

Thanks Paul  I will message you!


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## paul sturdy (27 January 2013)

Ok speak to you soon


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## ecrozier (28 January 2013)

OP have you considered a Boer Boel? Definitely legal and bred in the UK, similar stamp of dog to look at. I've met several in SA and they are gorgeous looking dogs, and the ines that love as family pets and are bred as such are lovely natured! I would have one myself but the are a little too big to fit into my life at the moment! I wouldn't cross one kept as a guard dog in their native SA but nor would I try my luck with a rottie/GSD/ridgeback kept specifically as a guard dog, far more common out there than here!


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## DressageCob (28 January 2013)

I knew a chap in Lima who kept these dogs for fighting. They were impeccably well bred, and he imported them from Spain and Brazil mainly, before breeding the subsequent generations himself. Not the best advert for the breed though, as they were, from his accounts, very successful fighting dogs. Indeed they always came home, without serious injury (bearing in mind the loser normally either dies in the ring or is put down shortly after). He was a lovely neighbour but a terrible human being!

Have you tried Rogue Kennels? They seem to be one of the few places that breed the dogs as pets rather than guard dogs  Same goes for Zeus.


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## kimberleigh (29 January 2013)

Did you receive my pm Paul? 

Ecrozier the boerboel is a beautiful breed but just slightly too big for where I am currently - would need a bigger house lol! Height wise they aren't massively larger than press's but there is a very big weight difference. 

Helenalbert I have tried Rogue Kennels but have had no response :/ hadn't heard of Zeus Kennels but have had a look at their website and aside from not being sure whereabouts they are I'm not at all keen on the types of dog shown!


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## paul sturdy (30 January 2013)

Hi kimberleigh I havnt received the pm for some reason can u send again and I will let you know if I receive it thanks


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## kimberleigh (30 January 2013)

Hi will send again now


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## paul sturdy (30 January 2013)

I havnt received again for some reason will try and send u a pm see if it sends


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## kimberleigh (30 January 2013)

Was going to say if didn't work try pm'ing me! May be something to do with my phone :/


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## paul sturdy (30 January 2013)

Sent you a pm did you receive it?


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## kimberleigh (30 January 2013)

No, but have received them from other people...

May not be able to use the pm facility because you don't have enough posts :/

My email is crownbull@hotmail.co.uk though if you could email me with any advice etc that'd be much appreciated


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