# Horse won't load



## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

OK so after having to move my horse several times in quick succession, he won't load, not a bad traveller, not frightend, just will not walk right on, both a lorry and a trailer.
I thought I was over it after spending a week, he was getting on with oats as a bribe. but now back to sq one.
He has had a bit of re training with a rope halter, and will walk backwards, but to be honest he is v blddy minded, and is not willing to accept the groundwork involved.
Those who have seen previous posts know that I am having to sell him, now this.!


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## FfionWinnie (27 August 2012)

Be nice halter and the associated ground work.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			Be nice halter and the associated ground work.
		
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I.ve done that, he will follow me and back up, just won't go right in to the lorry or trailer. 
He is reluctant to cross hind legs over when asked, and  does not seem to respond to a light touch with a schooling whip on his barrel  [groundwork or  when loading]
Is the bucket feed a very bad idea? I am thinking keeping him hungry then tying again. I did have sucess with this before.
I tried long reinng, he won't go in. I feel the more I try the worse he gets, as the most promising attempt was definately the first one.


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## Destario (27 August 2012)

I had a pony that wouldn't load, best way I found was to walk him in a circle gradually moving the circle close to the ramp, then walking him across the ramp in his circles so he stepped up and down and walked over and on the ramp but not into the trailer, after a while he seemed to get a bit bored and then when he was half way over the ramp I slacked off on the lead rope and walked into the trailer and he followed me without thinking. He looked very annoyed at himself once he realised what he'd done. Also when I had the time I would do this a lot, but instead of stopping in the trailer I'd walk him through and then back round to start the circles again...Sometimes he'd still refuse to go in but we got there eventually...he'd very rarely go straight in from home. At a show though, he'd walk right in, in fact he'd get in so fast I often had to let go and let him charge in all on his own...very strange...


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## FfionWinnie (27 August 2012)

Sorry thought you said rope halter. Be nice halter is a bit stronger for stubborn horses. 

I would just keep the pressure on til he makes the slightest step or lean forwards then release then repeat. If he is just being stubborn you probably need to wait him out. Once you get him in you should get him in and out multiple times ie 50 times a session (start in the morning lol) to reinforce it then do it every day about 50 times to completely reinforce him loading well. 

I don't bother with bribes as I don't think it works long term. 

Wear your hat and gloves...


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

Stubborn is what he is, I will get a Be Nice, another last grasp at straws with this horse, he is just very difficult is several ways, but has good points too, sometimes.
PS looked at Be Nice, they seem almost same as mine,  which is a thinner rope but has no rings to release it. Waited him out, he even sighed, but still not loading.


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## FfionWinnie (27 August 2012)

Another thing you could do is simulate loading ie a tarp or something he doesn't want to walk on and do it in the school until he respects you enough to walk over it. 

I have cured many bad loaders with a be nice halter but maybe get someone to help you if he is beating you. Where are you?


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

I am near Glasgow, I have had years of experience, and have loaded several horses for other people when they have failed!
Never had such a trying animal in my life. Have had other very experienced people try for me, last move they had to twitch and walk him on. I don't think this helped, but neither do I think it made any difference to his attitude now..


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## Destario (27 August 2012)

Well one bonus for you: he doesn't kick. My first pony (the wannabe rodeo bull) was a nightmare to load, you couldn't stand anywhere near his back end and when angry he could move himself into kick position very well! We ended up tying four lunge line to the trailer, two on each side, and getting two people to walk (a very long way off!) round behin him so that the lunge lines eveloped his back end causing him to walk forward with the occasional kick out, but as everyone was so far away he never got anyone...it would always take a few tries to get him in but it worked. Many years later when we had a second horse who loaded like a charm we found out that rodeo boy would walk on like an angel if there was already another horse on...sigh, he's much better now that he is retired and doesn't kick anyone much, except the new apprentice farriers who our top farrier sends over to trim his feet whilst we watch on to see what they do. He and the farrier have an agreement that they will both behave as the farrier is huge enough that when he has one leg up and rodeo boy picks up another to push the farrier over, the farrier can just hold him up, very amusing.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

Naughty horse is easier to deal with in some ways, any attempt to use any sort of pressure behind this horse makes the situation escalate , and not in a good way. Obviously we have tried mass people, lunge whips, lunge reins, the thing is he used to load like a lamb but I had to move him several times, and he has never been in a lorry or a trailer without being moved, this may have sparked off the problem, or perhaps someone  hustled him instead of letting him have a sniff, I don't know, but he is now an absolute refusnik.
He sees other ponies being loaded and going to shows etc all the time. Tried leading an old pony thru, etc.


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## Dry Rot (27 August 2012)

A lot of things in successful animal training are to do with choices. I'm sorry if that sounds flippant, but bear with me. I'm old and work alone so my ponies have to learn to self load. I refuse to go into a confined space with an animal that weighs over half a tonne, and is probably upset, especially as my mobile is in the house with a flat battery!

A round pen is a great asset thought I'm told a lunge line will work. I haven't tried it and suspect it isn't as good. In the absence of my pen, I think I'd rig up a makeshift pen with some tape. My method is very simple. If they are outside the trailer, they work. The nearer they are to going in, the less work they do -- or the better the rest. Keep everything calm with no force. If they go in and immediately come out, that's fine too -- more work! It's their choice.

So, they get worked and eventually will put a foot on the ramp. I immediately turn my back and walk away and stand with my back to the horse for maybe a minute. Then work starts again and I demand an inch or two more each time. Hunger helps as there is a full hay net in the trailer. Training being what it is, it won't be a steady progression but more like three steps forward and two back.

This is where choices come in. Outside the trailer, the horse works. Completely inside, I leave the horse to its hay net and go and have a cup of tea. If they want to come out, that's their choice but, guess what? More work! I'll continue until the pony loads without hesitation.

Of course, the above is similar to several NH training methods but the penny dropped when I had a very shy mare in for service owned by a no nonsense livestock haulier. I've never seen an animal load as fast in my life! It was easy to guess what had been going on and to use a bit of imagination to vary the technique to be totally humane but every bit as successful.


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## Destario (27 August 2012)

That's a shame. Only thing I can think of is just practice loading and every so often once he's in take him for a short drive and bring him straight back home. We did that with one of our cats as our older ones make themselves sick and stressed in the car, so we drove mini cat around a little in the basket and brought him home. He is now happy to drive around to the vets when he needs to (funnily the only cat which needs vets attention - he eats too much rabbit and blocks himself up!) and this may help with your boy...let him feel safer about coming home after the trailer...I have a friend that puts their trailer in the horses field every so often with it all open so that they can have a look around and surprisingly they are happy to walk around inside and she never has problems loading. 
With rodeo boy we found that lavender gel (can get it in supermarkets) rubbed around his nostrils helped to calm him down a little and load, so maybe you could try that...he was plain stubborn, but forgot he was stubborn after a while and scared himself and got angry. We think he had a terrible experience in trailers when he was little as the people we bought him off had had him delivered to them on request of the sellers...he was always happier when there was a little bit of food in the trailer once he was in, positive reinforcement and all that, greedy little monster!


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

I have to borrow the trailer and though owner is on site she has never taken him for  a ride, even though I have asked her several times. Others have tried and failed.


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## FfionWinnie (27 August 2012)

I meant someone who is very experienced with using a pressure halter.

I've seen it all on various yards and shows.  No method in my experience actually cures a horse other than the correct use of a pressure halter.  Chasing them on, lifting feet, bribing with food etc etc is just a crutch that works on the day (some times).

My horse to my shame was a victim of all those techniques and while they worked with other horses on the yard they did not work with her.  She reared and went over backwards twice before my "helpers" called it a day. 

The next day I loaded her myself in 30 minutes using the be nice halter (she was already trained to it).  

I was young and the "experts" at the livery yard she was on had waded in with the other old fashioned techniques when she didn't go on straight away.  Had I been left to my own devices I could have avoided all that stress and I will never load a horse any other way than with any "aids" other than a pressure halter ever again. 

All my childhood and teenage years the horses and ponies I had were terrible loaders.  I used to look at folk at shows and see their horse just walk on and think that was utterly amazing.  Now my aforementioned horse and my new ponies all just walk on nonchalantly and it is all thanks to a Richard Maxwell clinic I attended on loading 12 years ago.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

Dry Rot said:



			A lot of things in successful animal training are to do with choices. I'm sorry if that sounds flippant, but bear with me. I'm old and work alone so my ponies have to learn to self load. I refuse to go into a confined space with an animal that weighs over half a tonne, and is probably upset, especially as my mobile is in the house with a flat battery!

A round pen is a great asset thought I'm told a lunge line will work. I haven't tried it and suspect it isn't as good. In the absence of my pen, I think I'd rig up a makeshift pen with some tape. My method is very simple. If they are outside the trailer, they work. The nearer they are to going in, the less work they do -- or the better the rest. Keep everything calm with no force. If they go in and immediately come out, that's fine too -- more work! It's their choice.

So, they get worked and eventually will put a foot on the ramp. I immediately turn my back and walk away and stand with my back to the horse for maybe a minute. Then work starts again and I demand an inch or two more each time. Hunger helps as there is a full hay net in the trailer. Training being what it is, it won't be a steady progression but more like three steps forward and two back.

This is where choices come in. Outside the trailer, the horse works. Completely inside, I leave the horse to its hay net and go and have a cup of tea. If they want to come out, that's their choice but, guess what? More work! I'll continue until the pony loads without hesitation.

Of course, the above is similar to several NH training methods but the penny dropped when I had a very shy mare in for service owned by a no nonsense livestock haulier. I've never seen an animal load as fast in my life! It was easy to guess what had been going on and to use a bit of imagination to vary the technique to be totally humane but every bit as successful.
		
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Sorry, are you saying you leave horse to load if he choses, cause he would choose not to! If in trailer loose, and the front door was open he could reach net from there.
I have tried loading, lunging, loading lunging, groundwork, lunge load, I am exhausted but not him. I have got him on the ramp with four feet, he will almost go right in then head up and pull back. As I say the first attempt of the day seems to be the best, things go downhill after that.
I rub his head as a reward for forward motion, and keep light pressure on him as he goes back with head up. I tend to stay in the trailer and use a long lunge rein. The first few times  after a lunge, I approach  the trailer normally, walking slightly ahead of him. I hope I am not confronting him by looking him in the eye, just try to be relaxed, though sometime I am ready to lose it, and he gets a reminder with the schooling whip, this upsets him but has no other effect.


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## sarahann1 (27 August 2012)

My little lad has a stubborn streak in him. On one occasion I ended up standing at the end of a lunge line, at the back of a lorry with a feed and a hay net, he was at the bottom of the ramp. In total it took about 3hrs but he gave in and came in. No fuss, no lunge whips, no chasing. Loads ok now


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## PorkChop (27 August 2012)

Another to recommend the Be Nice Halter, it really is quite different to any of the other rope halters.

I have loaded un-loadable horses in minutes, you can get them through Richard Maxwell's website, and sometimes you can pick them up off ebay.

I would have thought it was the easiest solution, considering you don't have access to pen and trailer - though I think Dry Rot's suggestion is genius 

Do make sure you do at least ten minutes away from the trailer with the halter before trying to load, I am sure there are loads of videos on Youtube showing the stages of progression.


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## Destario (27 August 2012)

When I get round to getting another youngster to bring on, loading and driving about and coming home again will be top of my priorities. That way trailers are just another thing to do and sometimes have a lot of horses at the other end! But always coming home. I think he may be worried about leaving somewhere he like a lot, so maybe put some pressure on the owner of the trailer to take him out for little trips. Also try just chilling on the ramp/next to the ramp holding the lead rope loose and long and stay like that for a while, he should get inquisitive anough about the lack of fuss and trying to get him in the trailer to wander up the ramp a little and maybe poke a head in and walk out...he might be starting to associate the trailer with stress and work and perhaps he might chill out a little if he has no pressure to go in, just curiosity. Also if there are any excellent loaders at your yard ask them to come and help - they walk their horse through a few times in front of your horse, and then see if he will follow them through the trailer, if he does, then keepo both of them going through and then try just on his own, if not, ask the other horse to go through a few more times and try again. The chilled relaxed horse that is happy to go through may make him feel better about it.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

LJR said:



			Another to recommend the Be Nice Halter, it really is quite different to any of the other rope halters.

I have loaded un-loadable horses in minutes, you can get them through Richard Maxwell's website, and sometimes you can pick them up off ebay.

I would have thought it was the easiest solution, considering you don't have access to pen and trailer - though I think Dry Rot's suggestion is genius 

Do make sure you do at least ten minutes away from the trailer with the halter before trying to load, I am sure there are loads of videos on Youtube showing the stages of progression.
		
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Yes I have studied RM video, and I can't get my boy to co-operate with the ground handling, at the moment  goes backwards reluctantly, will come forwards, easily, and wont cross back legs over at all. He will go round in a circle round me but tries to fall in on me, and I can't get him to turn on his forehand. I know what he should be doing , but he is just unco-operative. 
He comes up to the ramp fine, sometimes tripods [which is preparing to rear], but mostly he just will not go as far as is needed, so far but no further. He can just "turn off" I have tried re-presenting or just tugging on the rope.
I lunge, present to trailer,, work away.
lunge,   present etc etc.
In order to turn the quarters away [RM groundhandling] Richard swivels the end of the line in a vertical circele, my horse ignores this, even if I then hit him with the end of the rope he just stands there when I try to repeat the exercise.


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## FfionWinnie (27 August 2012)

I personally think multiple loading is more important thank actually taking them for a ride in it. They need to be utterly rock solid that the trailer is not at all a problem before it starts to move anywhere. Then you need to repeat the whole process with it moving.


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## FfionWinnie (27 August 2012)

He likely will rear that's why you need a hat and gloves and a long rope and just keep the pressure on until he makes any forward movement at all ie even leaning his body forward.


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## Destario (27 August 2012)

Something that worked with a friend's horse that was iffy to load, was walking up the ramp then turning sideways off the ramp, she'd do this for about 10 minutes and then try and go straight in, any resistance and she'd turn off the ramp again, repeat a few more times and then try again, he'd normally be in 10 minutes after her first try at getting him in. She thought he was a little scared of the ramp and that this helped him chil down and remember the ramp is his friend...


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

Destario said:



			Something that worked with a friend's horse that was iffy to load, was walking up the ramp then turning sideways off the ramp, she'd do this for about 10 minutes and then try and go straight in, any resistance and she'd turn off the ramp again, repeat a few more times and then try again, he'd normally be in 10 minutes after her first try at getting him in. She thought he was a little scared of the ramp and that this helped him chil down and remember the ramp is his friend...
		
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Yes this is the same as walking sideways along the ramp, I have tried this a few times, but he is not scared, not scared at all.
I might try this, trouble is there is not a lot of room where the trailer is, and as it is not my trailer I don't like to move it about.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			He likely will rear that's why you need a hat and gloves and a long rope and just keep the pressure on until he makes any forward movement at all ie even leaning his body forward.
		
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He can only rear fom the tripod position, ie hind legs wider than fronts, so it is easy to prevent this, he would only do this if I put him under  lot of pressure from behind, so it is easy to avoid, yes, I have gloves and hat on now, but this is mostly to protect me when asking him to go round me when ground handling.


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## FfionWinnie (27 August 2012)

I think what I am trying to say is he may rear if you use the pressure halter in the manner I would be using it because they will try everything to evade it. In some ways they need to rear to learn they will never evade it other than going forwards. 

You have to dominate him on the ground away from the trailer first tho, it sounds like he knows all the tricks in the book and is not submitting to you therefore not trusting you.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			I think what I am trying to say is he may rear if you use the pressure halter in the manner I would be using it because they will try everything to evade it. In some ways they need to rear to learn they will never evade it other than going forwards. 

You have to dominate him on the ground away from the trailer first tho, it sounds like he knows all the tricks in the book and is not submitting to you therefore not trusting you.
		
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That is it, I have had plenty of similar issues with this horse over the years, he is not "nervous" as in a regular highly strung type,  but seems to spend a lot of time "evading" rather than co-operating.
But as I have said others just as experienced as me have tried, though they don't do the lunging and the groundwork, he still goes better for me than for them, as far as I can see. One lady loaded him [this was last year], by just crouching down and rewarding him, it took less than an hour, but the next time she tried it did not work. We have now had more sessions on loading than the number of times he has been in a trailer in his life. The trailer owner is the YO and is not particularly helpful other than letting me use it. There was lorry here a month ago and they promised to help me , but did not.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			I think what I am trying to say is he may rear if you use the pressure halter in the manner I would be using it because they will try everything to evade it. In some ways they need to rear to learn they will never evade it other than going forwards. 

You have to dominate him on the ground away from the trailer first tho, it sounds like he knows all the tricks in the book and is not submitting to you therefore not trusting you.
		
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It is difficult to try to get him so agitated that he would rear, that seems a very tricky approach, I know RM does say think will get worse before they get better, but I really can't go for a rear, he would be in a right state for that to occur.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

I have looked at Richard Maxwell halter, it is a bit diferent from my cowboy type which acts on both poll and nose, and is more like a Be Friendly, it comes with training video. I feel the whole control halter is much th same as usuing a lunge rein over the nose, but what do I know. I also have video of RM doing loading training, but the horse would load......... just took an hour, mine won't load at all at the moment.


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## R.A.H (27 August 2012)

This might not be of any use to you, but we had a horse that was a bad loader and what worked for him was parking downhill a little so the ramp almost level with the trailer. He wasn't scared of the trailer he was just a stubborn old git. He seemed to enjoy doing the opposite to what you was asking of him.


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## Dry Rot (27 August 2012)

Miss L Toe said:



			Sorry, are you saying you leave horse to load if he choses, cause he would choose not to!
		
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If he chooses not to, he works. Simple! It may take a while the first time, but the message will eventually get through.




			in trailer loose, and the front door was open he could reach net from there.
		
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Then don't leave the front ramp down/front door open! If you've backed the trailer up to a round pen or have him on a lunge, he can only get in at the rear anyway.

Editing this to add that I had a bought in mare that would refuse to load. She reared six times after a show when a very experienced horseman tried to load her using a rope head collar and we only got her in (eventually!) on her last rear when she fell forwards into the trailer -- and the ramp was promptly banged shut! It took a while, but even she was trained to self load on command once I got her home.


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## Paint Me Proud (27 August 2012)

I am having EXACTLY the same problem at the moment.

Chico WILL NOT load. 

I have tried lunge line, whips, feed, pressure halters, patience, etc etc, you name it we've tried it, but he just refuses to go on.

He used to load after i paid to have a professional come out and work with him but recently he has just gone backwards and now refuses altogether. 

I am using all the techniques the professional showed me but they just dont work anymore. 

Totally at a loss as to what to try next, short of getting the professional out again


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## nikCscott (27 August 2012)

Everyone has a different opinion when it comes to loading. Great thing about horses.... if one way doesn't work try something else 

For my boy I got him the walk across the ramp side to side without asking him to load at all the first couple of times to start with in a dually (which is a but hit and miss for him as he finds backing up really easy ) but we have a ritual...

...side ways across trailer ramp, then adjust the angle slightly but only put his front feet on, back away bit further, again, again, then straight through. Then i turn him around and load him up the front ramp and out the back do this a few times then whip the breast bar up and next time in ramp up. He'll probably go straight in now but the routine works so for the sake of a feel minutes and some random looks at shows its worth it.

Good luck its easier said than done- do not to lose your temper (i'm the worst) that why for me setting small easy goals of 'i only want him to walk across the ramp today thats all', makes it easier no pressure regular short sessions but upping the bar gradually each time

GOOD LUCK!


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## Pedantic (27 August 2012)

I had exact same problem, people kept saying make it more inviting, more spacey blah blah, it nothing to do with it, he'd travelled for years no problem, he just didn't want to leave his mates in the field, as much as it pained me, I eventually after lots of patience and trying everything else and seemed to have sorted it, then not, I resorted to a chifney, not what I wanted to do at all, but it was the only thing that sorted it, take's a couple of minutes now to load when required, I would NEVER travel him in it, once loaded changed into headcollar, for coming home I don't always need it, he sometimes loads without it.


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## R.A.H (27 August 2012)

I have to agree with pedantic on a chifney, it stopped the mine from rearing at the bottom of the ramp and spinning with me


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

R.A.H said:



			This might not be of any use to you, but we had a horse that was a bad loader and what worked for him was parking downhill a little so the ramp almost level with the trailer. He wasn't scared of the trailer he was just a stubborn old git. He seemed to enjoy doing the opposite to what you was asking of him.
		
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I am a bit limited as it is not my trailer, a lot will load happpily with a horizontal ramp, but I can't do it.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

R.A.H said:



			I have to agree with pedantic on a chifney, it stopped the mine from rearing at the bottom of the ramp and spinning with me
		
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He is not rearing, I have taught him not to load I don' t want to teach him how to rear.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

Pedantic said:



			I had exact same problem, people kept saying make it more inviting, more spacey blah blah, it nothing to do with it, he'd travelled for years no problem, he just didn't want to leave his mates in the field, as much as it pained me, I eventually after lots of patience and trying everything else and seemed to have sorted it, then not, I resorted to a chifney, not what I wanted to do at all, but it was the only thing that sorted it, take's a couple of minutes now to load when required, I would NEVER travel him in it, once loaded changed into headcollar, for coming home I don't always need it, he sometimes loads without it.
		
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I don't see how a chiffney will help, it is to stop a horse rearing, mine don' t rear he just won't go all the way in to the box.


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## Beausmate (27 August 2012)

Have you tried backing him up when he pulls back?  Goes like this....Lead horse to ramp, horse pulls back, you say ok, go back and back him up a few steps, lead horse towards ramp, horse says no and pulls back, you back him up etc.  Don't let him turn, just back and forth.  Keep it up, even when he puts his foot on the ramp and wants to go in, back him up, once he's in, back him out again. and keep going until he really doesn't want to come out.

Worked with every horse I've used it on (thank you Mr. Roberts!) even my nervous, opinionated TB.  I failed to load him after three hours and countless tantrums, had to move yards and was dreading loading him!  Took twenty minutes and he's loaded everytime, first time since.  Unloading however....


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

Beausmate said:



			Have you tried backing him up when he pulls back?  Goes like this....Lead horse to ramp, horse pulls back, you say ok, go back and back him up a few steps, lead horse towards ramp, horse says no and pulls back, you back him up etc.  Don't let him turn, just back and forth.  Keep it up, even when he puts his foot on the ramp and wants to go in, back him up, once he's in, back him out again. and keep going until he really doesn't want to come out.

Worked with every horse I've used it on (thank you Mr. Roberts!) even my nervous, opinionated TB.  I failed to load him after three hours and countless tantrums, had to move yards and was dreading loading him!  Took twenty minutes and he's loaded everytime, first time since.  Unloading however....

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I have tried this [as another dozen things] but will have to make it clearer to him. This is all about ground handling, he comes forward, is reluctant to back, and determined not to move sideways. i think I will try this. 20 mins lol


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

nikCscott said:



			Everyone has a different opinion when it comes to loading. Great thing about horses.... if one way doesn't work try something else 

For my boy I got him the walk across the ramp side to side without asking him to load at all the first couple of times to start with in a dually (which is a but hit and miss for him as he finds backing up really easy ) but we have a ritual...

...side ways across trailer ramp, then adjust the angle slightly but only put his front feet on, back away bit further, again, again, then straight through. Then i turn him around and load him up the front ramp and out the back do this a few times then whip the breast bar up and next time in ramp up. He'll probably go straight in now but the routine works so for the sake of a feel minutes and some random looks at shows its worth it.

Good luck its easier said than done- do not to lose your temper (i'm the worst) that why for me setting small easy goals of 'i only want him to walk across the ramp today thats all', makes it easier no pressure regular short sessions but upping the bar gradually each time

GOOD LUCK!
		
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I tried the small goals approach, it worked, but when I started again I was back to sq one.


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## MagicMelon (27 August 2012)

I'd just practice every single day, twice a day even. Could you even put the trailer in his field (with all doors open and no partition) and put his feed in it so he has to go in to eat!  Otherwise, I'd just practice loads - take everything out of the trailer, open it up and encourage him on with feed. I had one horse who would always stop at the top of the ramp and want to stand there for 5 mins until he decided he'd go in, I used to carry a squeezy bottle of water and squish it at his hind end - it usually surprised him enough he'd go forward!  I think the aim is to keep it sweet though, dont go down the nasty route.


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## R.A.H (27 August 2012)

If YO will let you use trailer then surely you can move it to give you more of an advantage.


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## kirstykate (27 August 2012)

Wet spikey yard brush on the btm


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

kirstykate said:



			Wet spikey yard brush on the btm

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Yea, I can see that working. lol


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

MagicMelon said:



			I'd just practice every single day, twice a day even. Could you even put the trailer in his field (with all doors open and no partition) and put his feed in it so he has to go in to eat!  Otherwise, I'd just practice loads - take everything out of the trailer, open it up and encourage him on with feed. I had one horse who would always stop at the top of the ramp and want to stand there for 5 mins until he decided he'd go in, I used to carry a squeezy bottle of water and squish it at his hind end - it usually surprised him enough he'd go forward!  I think the aim is to keep it sweet though, dont go down the nasty route.
		
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Not practical, he is not in the east frightened, just taking the px
I can't get him to respond to a schooling wwhip, he does not bother about lines, or sprays or shouting or sweets or treats or  anything.
I have tried a few temper tantrums [me not him], he is surprised but does not alter his behaviour.


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## PorkChop (27 August 2012)

Hear what you're saying re crossing of the hindlegs in the RM video, I had one who was exactly the same.

I can only re-iterate that the RM halter may look like the other be-nice halters, but it is different and much stronger.

If you do borrow/buy one they will have enough respect for it that when you turn a tight circle they will move a lot sharper with you and cross the hindlegs.  If they do need extra encouragement I find a rope flicked towards the quarters or fetlock works better.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

LJR said:



			Hear what you're saying re crossing of the hindlegs in the RM video, I had one who was exactly the same.

I can only re-iterate that the RM halter may look like the other be-nice halters, but it is different and much stronger.

If you do borrow/buy one they will have enough respect for it that when you turn a tight circle they will move a lot sharper with you and cross the hindlegs.  If they do need extra encouragement I find a rope flicked towards the quarters or fetlock works better.
		
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Yes well I am totally fed up, but I am trying to find out if a RM halter is the best,  I mean I can make one!
He does  not move away from swinging ropes or reins round the legs or anywhere.
He needs something strong as all the light weight things have not impresssed him. I draw the line at a chiffney as he is not aggressive, in fact he is non aggressive.
Even lungeing he needs two reins to keep control, if I canter him, it takes quite a lot of persuasion,  cracking  lunge whip and pushing him like mad from the ground,  he does not bother with lunge whips round his fetlocks or anything like that, you could say he is lazy, or laid back, but basically he sets the pace!


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## majors (27 August 2012)

Hi so sorry to hear your problem my only suggestion is a local professional man to come and load for you, take the emotion out of it.  I remember having temper tantrums at mine who after 5 years decided he wouldn't load.  I have twice seen men very calmly and kindley load big stong horses who knew they could take the mick out of their owners, as they couldn't shift the men they gave up.   Mine i cured through  time 5 hours and feeling calm that day, twice he threw himself over even thought it was just me a bridle and lunge line.   Then we went in and out 10 times and same the next day, but could always be stubborn if he felt like it.  I know its hard as not your trailer, but you have tried everything else brute strength night be next, good luck


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

Actually, I am calm as a fresh cool cucumber, and have also used strong but calm experienced loaders, also left it to several different people who have had loads of experience, no one lost temper, he has had the best of it.
I am a professional, and so were most of  his loaders,  I used a novice and he had them beat faster than me and the rest!
No one can use brute strength against half a ton of athletic muscle and bone, and I don't see all out aggression as the way forward.


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## Pearlsasinger (27 August 2012)

When we needed to load our mare (who had not loaded well to be delivered to us)10 yrs or more after her last travel experience)  the old farmer friend, whose land she and her mates were going to, brought a piece of blue pipe.  
We had a 7 horse horse box for 4, we put them on good loader/bad loader/reasonable loader/good loader. Obviously she had a good loader as a lead then farmer's daughter led the mare (so we didn't put her off) with farmer walking quietly behind, just swinging blue pipe gently - it makes a whistling type of sound.  She was never threatened or touched with BP but she knew that it was there and farmer would not be frightened of using it to push her in if necessary.  She went up the very steep ramp like a dream and did so again 3 months later when we brought them all home.
I'd hang a haylage net up in the trailer and get a piece of blue pipe.

I will say though that our 1st horse had travelled the return journey Bradford/Blackpool every year for several years and then was delivered to us loose in a box with no partitions.  He was not at all sweaty when he arrived and settled down to graze immediately, so did not appear to be at all upset.  Whenever we came upon an open horsebox in a farmyard that we often hacked through, he gave it the widest berth possible.  He never bothered about any other vehicle, even a grinding dust-bin wagon didn't worry him.  
So I can only assume that he was saying very clearly, 'I'm not leaving here'.


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## Ibblebibble (27 August 2012)

Miss L Toe said:



			Yes well I am totally fed up, but I am trying to find out if a RM halter is the best,  I mean I can make one!
He does  not move away from swinging ropes or reins round the legs or anywhere.
He needs something strong as all the light weight things have not impresssed him. I draw the line at a chiffney as he is not aggressive, in fact he is non aggressive.
Even lungeing he needs two reins to keep control, if I canter him, it takes quite a lot of persuasion,  cracking  lunge whip and pushing him like mad from the ground,  he does not bother with lunge whips round his fetlocks or anything like that, you could say he is lazy, or laid back, but basically he sets the pace!
		
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Lazy or laid back? sounds like a very smart boy to me who has you better trained than you have him!!


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## BethH (27 August 2012)

Hi you have my sympathy, my horses is the twin of yours!!!!  He used to load like a poppet but I had to change my lorry chassis and he decided he hated it and would not get on.  He is superb with his groundwork and long reins like a dream but just will not load, he will even rear when you just stand on the ramp and swip at you with his front leg with a deliberate miss to prove on this matter is is not moving and is in charge. I am a soft touch but can't bear bad manners in horses and my horse is a wonderful person in every respect to do - except loading!

Unfortunately my lorry was nicked last year so I never got a chance to really persevere (tried only for 2yrs!!!), but loading him was exhausting, I'd be knackered before I even left for a show.  I came to the conclusion it perhaps was slight claustrophobia, he was better if you left open the side ramp and jockey door and moved the central partition so he had plenty of room and could see, no amount of lunge lines, schooling whips, be nice halters would do anything other than make him rear and bolt, the dually is best as it releases better than the rope halters whichh used to get stuck so I couldn't release quickly enough.  He goes straight through a chiffney, without fail, the most stubborn horse I have ever dealt with in my life and I've had him for 9 long years!!!!!


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## Pedantic (27 August 2012)

I spent 2.5 hours one day, plus he being a total prat he injured his shoulder slipping, then the next time he pulled his front shoe clean off, they had only been on a day, it had to be a chifney as we had tried everything else and the injuries to him and me just weren't worth it, problem sorted, funny how some people don't take it in when you explain that it isn't to do with fear of loading or travelling and that it's just down to willfullnes and they know how to avoid going on the ramp and in.


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## mainpower (27 August 2012)

A method I have used with a lot of success for people when I have not got the horse for any length of time to practice with is; Take one very long lunge line, attach to headcollar, take the line into the trailer and thread through tie ring, bring the end out and pass it behind the horse. Start putting a steady pressure on the rope, building it up. The horse will fight itself ie if it pulls back it increases the pressure on the rope around the quarters. Be prepared for the horse to shoot forward into the trailer! It works better with a lorry with loading gates, but if you park up with one side against a wall and you stand to the other side you can keep them straight.
As others have said time training spent is invaluable, but if you only have access to the trailer when you need to travel the horse it can be an invaluable method.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

I can try the rein round bum, but I did this by tying one end to his roller, and pulling, it only made him present to the ramp at an angle. there is no way I can  pull him on to the trailer, but I will try.
We tried two reins round bum attached to the trailer, needs three people and was no use.
Again I dont see the chiffney "pulling him on" he does not rear and I don't want to end up with a rearer.
I have the trailer here, but it is not possible to have it in the areana, it is inside the barn at the moment, originally I got him in it when it was in the car park. I don't know why she put it in the barn except that it was easier to get it there. This is where she loads her own ponies.
I do know the horse has the better of me, in some respects, he has always been very difficult, it his his nature to be difficult. But this has occured recently and I think it is due to him being moved so often, not something I wanted to do, but it had to be done.
He does not understand being hit, I really don't think this is the way to go, and I am not a fluffy bunny. I realise it is wilfullness not fear, fear in many ways would be easier to deal with.
We tried belting him and he reared.


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## Miss L Toe (27 August 2012)

Ibblebibble said:



			Lazy or laid back? sounds like a very smart boy to me who has you better trained than you have him!!
		
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I know!


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## Miss L Toe (28 August 2012)

OK thanks to all who replied, just looks like a long road with no turning, tried asking a well known transporter, after a lot of negativity because they wanted to send a lorry, then some other transporters lorry, and being told he must be out of control otherwise I would not be using a control halter, I was told to stable and not feed for 12 hours. I might try that, but then I suspect he will not come in from the field!
I await a response from Richard Maxwell.


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## partypremier (28 August 2012)

I think I have tried everything that. has been suggested by others with bad loaders over the years.
a last resort that worked with 2 stubborn loaders was to blindfold them.  Jumper works you can tie it on with the arms or use a ready-made hood like they use getting racehorses into stalls.
Do it all calmly & keep talking to him may just work


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## Sarah1 (28 August 2012)

I once saw a very petite little lady load a particularly stubborn animal in about 5 minutes flat after it had been refusing every attempt for about 45 minutes (including food & company on the trailer).
She stood the horse directly in front of the ramp, moved him backwards, moved him sideways, forwards, each & every way possible - basically wherever she wanted his feet is where she made sure they went.  She did this for about 5 minutes, quickly & continuously, then she turned a few tight circles right in front of the ramp and came out of the last one & walked up the ramp in a very determined manner - horse didn't know what had happened until it was on the trailer!  Genius, and no force or fuss at all.
Good luck


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## Annagain (28 August 2012)

This is not exactly conventional (and I bet a few will say it's not safe!) but someone showed me a trick once and it's worked with both my old boy who just like yours was very stubborn and just stood totally passively refusing to move in any direction and with my current one who will go on quite happily but shoot off backwards before you can get the back done up! 

Attach a lunge line to the headcollar, thread the lungeline under the breast bar and back to you like a pulley (wear hat and gloves). Stand behind the horse and apply some pressure. Because you're behind him, he can't tell where the pressure is coming from and it confuses him enough for him to react to the pressure without considering other factors (ie counteracting you) From then on the pressure and release principle works - he goes forward, you give a little, he goes backwards, you up the pressure. It's easier for you to resist his strength with a 'pulley' and you can give him a surprise bit of 'persuasion' from behind if you need to as well. 

Like I say, I'm sure there are plenty who won't like the sound of it, but it worked with my two who had different reasons for being difficult to load! They both ended up walking on with no issues after using that method for a while.


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## Miss L Toe (28 August 2012)

Beausmate said:



			Have you tried backing him up when he pulls back?  Goes like this....Lead horse to ramp, horse pulls back, you say ok, go back and back him up a few steps, lead horse towards ramp, horse says no and pulls back, you back him up etc.  Don't let him turn, just back and forth.  Keep it up, even when he puts his foot on the ramp and wants to go in, back him up, once he's in, back him out again. and keep going until he really doesn't want to come out.

Worked with every horse I've used it on (thank you Mr. Roberts!) even my nervous, opinionated TB.  I failed to load him after three hours and countless tantrums, had to move yards and was dreading loading him!  Took twenty minutes and he's loaded everytime, first time since.  Unloading however....

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WOW this worked, got him in , twenty minutes, tried again in afternoon when he was a bit hungrier, nearly trampled in the rush! Eating out a bucket in trailer, then give him an apple as he unloads. 
I did put him in a rope contol halter as soon  as I caught him in field, and I will stick to this, he had just lost respect for a halter or anything else.


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## Elsbells (28 August 2012)

Miss L Toe said:



			WOW this worked, got him in , twenty minutes, tried again in afternoon when he was a bit hungrier, nearly trampled in the rush! Eating out a bucket in trailer, then give him an apple as he unloads. 
I did put him in a rope contol halter as soon  as I caught him in field, and I will stick to this, he had just lost respect for a halter or anything else.
		
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Whoop! Well done!

This is the only thing that works for mine too. That still doesn't mean she likes it when she's in there though.


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## Miss L Toe (28 August 2012)

Elsbells said:



			Whoop! Well done!

This is the only thing that works for mine too. That still doesn't mean she likes it when she's in there though.

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He is not botherd, not at all.


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## Valhalla (30 June 2013)

Oh hurray!! I've been reading with increasing doom having had a 2.5hr loading experience at a show today. 
My new horse is a slightly nervy type and is more used to lorries (ex polo) than trailers, but had been loading okay, but just getting progressively less keen to actually step into the trailer. I don't think he's actually too worried about the trailer, just would rather not thank you & is working new ways to resist my (extremely patient!!) methods. 
He will stand on ramp, even all four feet & then refuse to move. Happily stretches head inside, but if at that point you add any additional pressure from outside (even picking up a stick or lunge) he'll throw head up and back off. 

So, spent a good two hours doing walking sideways over ramps (which used to work with him & many other difficult horses I've loaded) used pressure from me & release when he steps forward onto ramp, but could still only get as far as all four on ramp , calmly but quietly telling me to p** off. Tried some pushing him backwards everytime he resisted, which didn't seem to work, but didn't do it continuously enough probably.
In the veeeery long-winded-end of patience end, a lady lent me another lunge (we'd tried a single one around bum & he freaked..a lot) & we tried the scissor action thing of tying it to each side and slowly chaneling him, putting pressure on till he goes forwards. As he's hyper sensitive to 'things' touching his sides and back end (so much so, ive gobe from using a schooling whip to a shorty for now as ANY touch is like an electric shock! *rolls eyes* 
He had a bit of a freak the first time a lunge touched him and ran back but we crossed the lines behind him and didn't let off until he went forwards (a bit risky but seemed to work). Anyway, he then walked in quite happily rather than risk the lunge touch him again and was totally calm inside. 

I do think that that might not work for a second time, as we may have had the surprise factor (and 2.5 hours of boring him with ramp standing) on our side. I really want him to be able to go in without all that &do it willingly & happily as I will nearly always be alone to load so will definitely put more work into the be-nice idea and Beausmate's seemingly amazeballs method! Here's hoping & thank you from me and Musket!  ))


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