# Follow on thread: post good un-shod/barefoot pics please



## nikkimariet (19 February 2012)

Found the 'good shoeing pics' thread absolutely fascinating. So have followed suit with this one 

To start, I'll tell you about Fig. As an ex racer he has been shod since he was 2 (he is now rising 8), came to me Dec 2011, had his shoes off Jan 2012.

He has small, pony like feet and in all honesty, who ever shod him had done a fab job - so we had good basics to work with. Our BF trimmer took his shoes off Jan 2012 and left it at that. PS has since (who has been trained by our trimmer), rolled his toes and ensured his heels were even.

Off fore:











Off hind:











Near fore:











Near hind:











Obviously, we realize these are no way near perfect - but given his history we think he's doing a pretty decent of showing us the feet he wants 

For comparison, next pics are of CS (7 year old ex racer, will be competing PSG this summer) who has been BF/un-shod for 5 or 6 years (limited pics of CS as his feet haven't changed much!).

Near fore:











Near hind:






What do you think - any CC/thoughts to offer?

Would love to see pics of other BF/un-shod horses, partic TB's and dressage horse but all types welcome


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## GinaGeo (19 February 2012)

I'll be watching this with interest. I've just had my horse's shoes pulled off as well.


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## dafthoss (19 February 2012)

Heres the yellow ponys feet. Hes a 14.2 connie thats never been shod and covers several miles of a weekend they arnt perfect but he is happy with them. 

Ok I cant post photos because photo bucket is throwing all its toys out the pram


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## rowy (19 February 2012)

Rowan and Dancers came off on saturday! She said that our farrier had done a really good job and that she was really impressed with Dancer's feet. She has very similar feet to fig actually. 
Rowan- his shoes were starting to make his feet run forward making the hoof pastern axis a bit broken so she said his feet will be much better now he doesnt have shoes and that they should start to grow normal again lol. He is a bit foot sore on his fronts but hopefully that will go as he gets used to being barefoot again. 
This was Rowan today (dont have any close ups of his feet but you can kinda see them


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## itsonlyme (19 February 2012)

Here's the link to Dolly. 12.2 section A. Shoes on & off for the past 7 years. Permanently off a year ago. 

http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w8/mollymurphy_2007/Dolly/Dolly goes barefoot/

Molly (ddft injury in 2007, heartbars from then until July 2011. Massive thrush infections)

http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w8/mollymurphy_2007/Molly/Molly Goes Barefoot/

And Mo. 21 year old Warmblood with cushings / IR. Shod all her life until July 2011. 

http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w8/mollymurphy_2007/Mo/Mo Goes Barefoot/

All links go to the confirmation shots. Links to each foot are in sub-albums on the right-hand-side (if viewing on a PC) 

All have just started on their minerals & are still a work in progress


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## itsonlyme (19 February 2012)

deleted


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## kaiserchief (19 February 2012)

My little Kai pony has awesome feet - he's unbacked but I lead him out a lot and he goes over any surface at any speed without flinching.

A front foot:






A back foot:


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## dafthoss (19 February 2012)

Right now photo bucket seems to have stopped having a paddy here are the yellow ponys feet. As before a 14.2 connemara gelding, never had shoes on and does several miles hacking and anything else I fancy doing with him and fingers crossed event him this summer. 










hinds 





mark growing down not caused any issues 





other hind, dodgey light makes this one look bruised but its not 





and his heels look dodgey thats my bad photograpy and his un cooperative mood that night 





and the other front


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (20 February 2012)

dafthoss-id be chuffed to bits with those, they look really tough and *clean* if you know what i mean-no dodgy scraggy bits or chips or chunks out


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## Nocturnal (20 February 2012)

Fig's look pretty good for feet straight out of shoes . The only thing that really jumps out is the bullnosing in the hinds - looks like the farrier may have been dumping the toe?

CS's heels look pretty high, is he landing heel first? I think I'm right in saying he works mostly on a surface? So trim is probably quite important for him, as he won't get the wear from road work.


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## trina1982 (20 February 2012)

dafthoss said:








Click to expand...

Interesting angle change on this one. Hoof appears to be growing in tight, then flaring a bit - or is it the photo making it look like that?
Trina x


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (20 February 2012)

CS heels are higher than is *textbook* but he does land heel first and if they are taken lower he goes very sore..................now i know as well as anyone that you dont just let the foot do as it wishes at any cost, but my prev horse had the same issue once she got above adv med level IE that if heels were taken to *normal* height she became very sore.

trimmer and i came to conclusion that the high % of very collected work, plus the surface they mainly work on (sand but topped with THICK rubber so no natural wear) meant the foot needed the extra heel height????

if anyone has any other theories i would be interested.....he is rock crushing sound on them though, like horrid actual building rubble on the ground doesnt even make him flinch.


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## forestfantasy (20 February 2012)

I'd like some CC on my mares feet please 
Some background first...
Her back feet have never been shod and they are great.
She had fronts on 2 years ago as she took a huge chunk out of her off fore in the field and the hoof went boxy to compensate - old farrier said shoe to try and correct.
I did and well basically its always been smaller & boxy since (no lamness at all though)
New farrier improved them but still not right so i decided to whip them off.

Before:

NF










OF











Now (coming up for 3 weeks later)

NF





















OF
















She was a fine for a few weeks then went footy on stones, she's now just coming into her own and is improving every week on different surfaces & since i've changed her diet.
She does seem pigeon toed now (as can be seen in the pics) Obviously this wasn't evident in shoes.
I'm undecided on whether to leave her to wear them how she obviously needs them to be or to have them trimmed to try and improve this?
Any opinions welcome - obviously we have a way to go with the boxy small foot but i think we're improving 
Thanks


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## Jesstickle (20 February 2012)

These are the only photos I have on my photobucket account and I'm at work so can't get more right now but here we go they aren't perfect photos I'm afraid)

near fore


















off fore

















For some reason the hind ones aren't on here 

15.3 WBxTB, has only had one set of shoes in his whole life, other wise unshod. Farrier trimmed and does a bit of everything


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## cptrayes (20 February 2012)

I will come back with some comments on this thread later, but meanwhile I do feel that that the definition of a good barefoot hoof should be, *no matter what the foot looks like*, "the one on which the horse is long term sound".

ForestFantasy, your horse is in the middle of showing you that the balance of her feet in shoes was completely wrong for her legs. She is growing feet at a totally different left/right balance and will eventually move completely differently than she does right now. Try not to worry too much about what they look like until a complete foot is on the floor. Personally, with a change to the balance that big, I am surprised that she was completely sound in shoes and I doubt if she would have stayed sound if you wanted her to work hard in future; she looks like she was a case of collateral ligament strain waiting to happen.


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## forestfantasy (20 February 2012)

cptrayes said:



			I will come back with some comments on this thread later, but meanwhile I do feel that that the definition of a good barefoot hoof should be, *no matter what the foot looks like*, "the one on which the horse is long term sound".

ForestFantasy, your horse is in the middle of showing you that the balance of her feet in shoes was completely wrong for her legs. She is growing feet at a totally different left/right balance and will eventually move completely differently than she does right now. Try not to worry too much about what they look like until a complete foot is on the floor. Personally, with a change to the balance that big, I am surprised that she was completely sound in shoes and I doubt if she would have stayed sound if you wanted her to work hard in future; she looks like she was a case of collateral ligament strain waiting to happen.
		
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Thank you so much for your reply, thankfully she is rising 6 so only had shoes on for about 18 months - all i can say is thank god i found HHO otherwise she'd probably still have them on 
Also they have been off 3 *months* not weeks! For some reason i'm unable to edit that!


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## trina1982 (20 February 2012)

forestfantasy said:



			Thank you so much for your reply, thankfully she is rising 6 so only had shoes on for about 18 months - all i can say is thank god i found HHO otherwise she'd probably still have them on 
Also they have been off 3 *months* not weeks! For some reason i'm unable to edit that! 

Click to expand...

I must admit i thought the same as cptrayes. The new hoof growing in is at a very different angle (clever horse!), and in the shod pics the limb doesn't look straight(?). Out of interest do you have pics of the front legs from 3 months ago and now? (bit like this http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2011/12/solar-flares.html ). Those pics can be quite telling too 

Trina x


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## forestfantasy (20 February 2012)

trina1982 said:



			I must admit i thought the same as cptrayes. The new hoof growing in is at a very different angle (clever horse!), and in the shod pics the limb doesn't look straight(?). Out of interest do you have pics of the front legs from 3 months ago and now? (bit like this http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2011/12/solar-flares.html ). Those pics can be quite telling too 

Trina x
		
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Hi,

I'm afraid i don't really have many pics from before apart from these 2 which i know aren't great quality or close enough!










I'll get some full legs shots tonight if i get a chance & it's light enough!

thanks so much for your comment - feeling better and positive now


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## Nocturnal (20 February 2012)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			CS heels are higher than is *textbook* but he does land heel first and if they are taken lower he goes very sore..................now i know as well as anyone that you dont just let the foot do as it wishes at any cost, but my prev horse had the same issue once she got above adv med level IE that if heels were taken to *normal* height she became very sore.

trimmer and i came to conclusion that the high % of very collected work, plus the surface they mainly work on (sand but topped with THICK rubber so no natural wear) meant the foot needed the extra heel height????

if anyone has any other theories i would be interested.....he is rock crushing sound on them though, like horrid actual building rubble on the ground doesnt even make him flinch.
		
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Very interesting, thanks for explaining. 100% agree that if his feet are working for him then leave them. I don't reckon there are many barefoot horses working at psg to compare him with, so he makes a fascinating case study!


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## amandaco2 (20 February 2012)

its interesting re higher heels
my Inter II horsey had HUGE heels....well his whole foot was just 'big' looking. solid but he looked like he walked on stilts......
we have taken the hoof down quite a bit over 4 months and found the same as PS...
they need to be fairly high- defo higher than the mares hooves who are at nov/ele level- or he gets sore.... he grows a huge rate of horn too- he has a good clipping off each time (5 weekly)
he has very good hard hooves and concave soles....not one split or even chip!
noticed his frogs are fattening up nicely now too.....
his hooves now look very similar to CSs... before that he had shoes on from 2yrs old so over 9yrs of being shod.
he wears hoof boots for hacking as he does feels stones.....
not sure how he will be on hard summer ground so will play it by ear.............


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## Skippys Mum (20 February 2012)

Arnies shoes came off at the end of november.  He was trimmed them at the end of january.  I think he's got pretty good barefeet??  

The day before his trim






What was trimmed off all 4 feet in total (I know, I need to get a life )






osf (dont have the nsf for some reason?)











nsh











osh











He is sound and going great on a school, not bad on tarmac and getting there on my rough lane (he can now handle it led but not with my weight on him).  He is great in boots though and we did a happy 5 mile hack yesterday so I now know I can make this work for us.

I worried a lot over the first 2 months though but now things are improving.  His diet has been tweaked and he's started on MetaBalance so hopefully things should keep getting better.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (20 February 2012)

amanda thats interesting, i didnt know anyone else with a higher level barefoot horse to compare too but its fascinating that your inter II boy needs higher heels too.

food for thought for sure!


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## dafthoss (20 February 2012)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			dafthoss-id be chuffed to bits with those, they look really tough and *clean* if you know what i mean-no dodgy scraggy bits or chips or chunks out 

Click to expand...

Thanks  I'm not to worried about them they very rarley chip and are very hard so much so he almost sounds shod when on the road. Yep I do know what you mean with the *clean* thing he does generaly have neat feet so to speak. 

Intresting about CS' feet being more comfortable slightly away from the text book immage. 



trina1982 said:



			Interesting angle change on this one. Hoof appears to be growing in tight, then flaring a bit - or is it the photo making it look like that?
Trina x
		
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I think its my bad photography  his feet are even pairs and fairly straight and 'tight' all the way down 

I'll try get some better ones in day light tomorrow


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## forestfantasy (21 February 2012)

trina1982 - i have took some pics today of her legs as they are right now:

NF: 











OF


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## Rosehip (21 February 2012)

These are Melly's feet summer 2011 - I took them to show a friend as I was convinced she wasnt 'right' - and it was proved to be so, as she was diagnosed as chronic low grade lami a couple of days later. 

As you will see, there is much room for improvment on the feet, and Im pleased to say that after box rest/tweaking of diet (dispite what the feet say, she already was on a very minimal grass diet with a non-cereal, high fibre feed) she is 100% better, and her feet show that. 

I have had her tested for IR, but not cushings, do you think I should??

RF


















LF


















Both fore's from slightly above:







For some reason I dont have hind feet piccys!

cyptrays, (and others of course!  ) Id be really interested on your thoughts on these hooves, and on the pics I'll get as soon as I can x


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## Rosehip (21 February 2012)

Dammit! Ive got them all wrong and I cant edit them!!! Argh! Im so sorry!!

The 1st pic is Right fore, the others all seem to be Left fore...... So heres some more right fore piccys - 

























Sorry to confuse the issue so much! haha! xx


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## HashRouge (21 February 2012)

This could be interesting! This horse had her shoes taken off 4 1/2 months ago and her fronts were x rayed recently (if anyone can guess what her problem is, I'll be very impressed!)

Right fore











Left fore











I don't have any of here hinds, but she hasn't been shod behind for years and years. If anyone wants to see the x rays, PM me


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## amandaco2 (21 February 2012)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			amanda thats interesting, i didnt know anyone else with a higher level barefoot horse to compare too but its fascinating that your inter II boy needs higher heels too.

food for thought for sure!
		
Click to expand...

yes he grows them at a huge rate too....
must take some pictures.
his hooves are very concave inside too....


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## spookypony (22 February 2012)

OK, my turn! 

These pictures are all of the left fore. The first 3 were taken shortly after I got the pony. He had not been seen by a farrier in about 6 months
(previous owners had been unable to catch him for farrier), and had developed very long, flared feet, with a rather huge crack in one hind. 
A farrier trimmed him just before he came, and these pics were taken at his first barefoot trimmer appointment, some weeks after his arrival.

















The second 3 were taken 6 months later, to chart progress. They are almost 3 years old now. The feet have continued to improve since then.


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## Rosehip (22 February 2012)

Just wonderring how this thread isnt as popular as the shod thread?? I thought this forum was full of barefooters??!!!
xx


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## spookypony (22 February 2012)

*bump*


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## trina1982 (22 February 2012)

forestfantasy said:



			Some background first...







3 weeks later






Click to expand...




forestfantasy said:



			right now:






Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the pics 

So this (i hope!) is the same foot. We have to remember these are pics taken in a moment of time and can be deceptive (incidentally, does she ever stand square - she seems to point the foot you taking a pic of, is she a diva? lol) but i think they are interesting all the same.
I'm certainly no expert, but i think your horse knows what she is doing. 

As an aside - my friends horse was pts with severe arthritus in his hock a few years back. When looking back through photos with her, we noticed in every single pic he stood with that particular hind leg forward underneath him. She never noticed it in 'real life', and he was never lame as such, just stiff. I tend now never to underestimate what their posture tells you. Could be nothing, but it could be something. Worth just mentally taking note of their 'habits'.

Do you follow the Rockley blog, the post yesterday made me think of your horse 
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2012/02/do-twist.html

Will follow your story with interest (if you'll keep us updated please!)

Trina x


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## trina1982 (22 February 2012)

HashRouge said:



			This could be interesting! This horse had her shoes taken off 4 1/2 months ago and her fronts were x rayed recently (if anyone can guess what her problem is, I'll be very impressed!)

Right fore











Left fore











I don't have any of here hinds, but she hasn't been shod behind for years and years. If anyone wants to see the x rays, PM me 

Click to expand...

I'm going to 'say what i see'

Right fore, there is flare (the true line of the hoof changes about an inch down, so compromised laminae?). I also think the hairline on this hoof looks uneven. The crack also makes me think there is some sort of pressure at the toe?

Left fore, this looks like the balance is out? The joint above it doesn't seem to match up, and the hoof wall lengths are disimilar. The coronet looks high on the right hand side too, i think. Looking at the wear at the bottom of the hoof it isn't even.

As for diagnosis, i'll leave that to someone who has a clue  

Trina x


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## trina1982 (22 February 2012)

Rosehip, your horses feet are very interesting. What happened to cause the big change we see. 
I'm interested to know about the sole aswell - anyone care to share what they think? I wondered if it was false sole but i may be way off the mark.

Trina x


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## Rosehip (23 February 2012)

Trina, The only thing I can think of that has caused the massive change is that she wass medicated for bone spavin, so has steriods, tildren and several sedations within abiut 4 weeks. Othere than that, as far as her management was concerned nothing has changed!Thats why on the day I took the pics I looked down at her feet and went "argh, code red"!! It was like I was looking at another horses feet, frightened the life out of me!
With regards the sole, I got my farrier to come back (she had only been trimmed 2 weeks in the pics) and he took her toes right back etc in a hard lami trim, and also took half an inch of false sole off- even he said Oh my God, did I actually trim her last time, he couldnt believe the change in her foot! 
Ive wracked my brains to think what could have caused it, but have drawn a blank! What sort of thing would you be looking at Trina? xx


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## forestfantasy (23 February 2012)

Hi Trina,

Yes they are the same foot 
I think she knows what she's doing too - the difference since the shoes being taken off is amazing, almost to the point where i'm ashamed that i didn't do something sooner - i knew it wasn't right deep down. Again - thank gor for HHO!!
On another note, I can't say i've noticed the foot pointing until recently ( towards the end with shoes on & since they have been off more so)
Hopefully this will change as the new feet grow - time will tell i guess!
Oh and i shall definitely keep you all updated 
Thanks again
Here are some more square pics! (well fronts at least!)


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## trina1982 (23 February 2012)

Rosehip said:



			Trina, The only thing I can think of that has caused the massive change is that she wass medicated for bone spavin, so has steriods, tildren and several sedations within abiut 4 weeks. Othere than that, as far as her management was concerned nothing has changed!Thats why on the day I took the pics I looked down at her feet and went "argh, code red"!! It was like I was looking at another horses feet, frightened the life out of me!
With regards the sole, I got my farrier to come back (she had only been trimmed 2 weeks in the pics) and he took her toes right back etc in a hard lami trim, and also took half an inch of false sole off- even he said Oh my God, did I actually trim her last time, he couldnt believe the change in her foot! 
Ive wracked my brains to think what could have caused it, but have drawn a blank! What sort of thing would you be looking at Trina? xx
		
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So, am I right the pics were from last year? Summer time?
That big event line must have grown out by now, so what do the feet look like now?
Is she sound?

I have an interest in bare hooves, but i am certainly no expert. All I would suggest it just to ask yourself questions as to why things are the way they are. 
So, for example, the big event line on that hoof is halfway down - indicating an event at least 3 months before that pic (i think ). 
The hoof growing in after that event has lots of small vertical cracks, compared to the hoof below it (which has a few horizontal event lines).
Thats not a coincidence, something has changed. Get your detectives hat on 

Have you tried posting on the UKNHCP forum. There are very knowledgeable people on there who may help you get to the bottom of it, they will certainly help you 'think outside the box' a little. As I said, i have an interest - definately does not make me an expert!

I find it very interesting that this thread is not achieving much attention. I was looking forward to sitting back and learning!! Not blathering on making myself look stupid, lol!

Trina x


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## Rosehip (23 February 2012)

trina1982 said:



			So, am I right the pics were from last year? Summer time?
That big event line must have grown out by now, so what do the feet look like now?
Is she sound?

I have an interest in bare hooves, but i am certainly no expert. All I would suggest it just to ask yourself questions as to why things are the way they are. 
So, for example, the big event line on that hoof is halfway down - indicating an event at least 3 months before that pic (i think ). 
The hoof growing in after that event has lots of small vertical cracks, compared to the hoof below it (which has a few horizontal event lines).
Thats not a coincidence, something has changed. Get your detectives hat on 

Have you tried posting on the UKNHCP forum. There are very knowledgeable people on there who may help you get to the bottom of it, they will certainly help you 'think outside the box' a little. As I said, i have an interest - definately does not make me an expert!

I find it very interesting that this thread is not achieving much attention. I was looking forward to sitting back and learning!! Not blathering on making myself look stupid, lol!

Trina x
		
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Yes, absolutely, she went down with chronic low grade lami (or rather was diagnosed with it) in June last year. She is now sound as a pound in front, but is still 1/10th - 2/10th lame behind due to her bone spavin. The vet thinks that she had a bout of lami in March of last year (2011) which went un-noticed :rolleyes I dont think so!! As a prior cushings/lami owner Im fanatical about pulses and any signs of lami! 
The vet took blood to test for IR/EMS - both of us were convinced she would be, but everything came back clear. 
The only thing I can think of that changed during 2010/2011 that could possibly show on the feet was that I put them both (her and my broodie) on TopSpec Anti-Lam as I felt both of them needed additional nutritional support. 
She has had the same farrier for over 2 years, and he was shocked at her feet too. 
This is a video of how she was moving at the time - I initially suspected an abcess in the heal of the LF, and shoulder trauma, but the vet disregarded both of those immediately. 








And this is how she was stood on her feet:







I dont understand how Oberon, Cyptyres et al arent all over this thread!

Im really appreciating your insight Trina, thank you very much!! You are talking absolute sense to me! Ill have a look at the site you mention xx


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## cptrayes (23 February 2012)

I'm watching, but again I would say that a good barefoot foot is the one that the horse is sound on. I'm not keen on joining in "guess what's wrong with this horse" games when the owner already knows, and I'm also very aware that it is easy to criticise a foot only to be told that the horse has been barefoot all its life and does 20 mile fun rides before breakfast . 

If anyone has problems, I will gladly make suggestions for what might be wrong, but other than that, there is no "wrong" barefoot on a sound horse, in my book.


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## ThePony (23 February 2012)

lol, was just about to say the same as cptrayes! If the feet are working for the horse, then it is a dangerous game to try and find fault - the horse knows what it needs better than anyone looking at a pic!  The heel height discussion above proves this well. You might be able to mention a change of angle down the hoof wall or the possibility of thrush from a pic - but you could only muse on the possible causes and solutions though.


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## Rosehip (23 February 2012)

I do take your point Cyptrayes & yourpony, as I completely agree with you - my little mare has the wierdest little feet, with a horrid flare on them that shows about 2 weeks after trimming, but she is (touch *so* much wood) sounds as a bell and always has been, so although many people would go oh god look at them, they work for her. However, with Melly and the pictures I have posted of her I would dearly love some guidance and help with them! Im on my way to take pics of her feet today to put on, and will give you a full run down of her feed etc if you like too? 
But any advice you can give me with her I'd be really really grateful!!!
What do you guys think of the vid? xx


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## Rosehip (23 February 2012)

Piccys!!!
They arent brillinat quality I'm afraid, between my friends stiff neck, and my op preventing me from grubbing around on the floor we havent quite got the angles right, and I havent scrubbed her feet, but I think you get the generral jist 

Near Fore:

























And Off Fore:

























Hope they are ok x


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## Oberon (23 February 2012)

Rosehip said:



			I dont understand how Oberon, Cyptyres et al arent all over this thread!
		
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I am enjoying looking at the pics but keep forgetting to take my camera down to the yard


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## Rosehip (23 February 2012)

Oberon said:



			I am enjoying looking at the pics but keep forgetting to take my camera down to the yard

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Ahhhhhhh  I see! 

Would you have any insights into Mellys feet? I so want to learn more about hooves, but get so far and then hit a blank again! 

Oh, I was going to put her feed down wasnt it....

*AM*
250g Fast Fibre
1 Stubbs scoop (approx 300g) HiFi Lite

*PM*
250g Fast Fibre
1 Stubbs Scoop HiFi Lite
1 measure Mobile Mover, 1 Measure Equivite Original, 1 measure Magnitude

She is out 24/7 on (at the moment) poor pasture, with 2 nets per day of fair, pretty course, hay, about 7lb each. 
In the summer she only has 1 feed a day, of the same FF but half the HiFi Lite, and is restricted in her grazing. If she is needing to shed any weight she is restricted to a 20x40 bare paddock and has soaked hay to supplement her fibre intake. 

Would you change/add anything to this diet? She is a retired paddock ornament  xx


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## trina1982 (23 February 2012)

Rosehip said:








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Rosehip said:








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Ok, so purely as an observation - might mean something, might not, (insert relevant i'm not qualified disclaimer here ) comparing the two pics the point of the frog looks to have moved in relation to the foot. In the top pic there is more sole to the right of the frog than the left, like the frog is skewed? 
Again, just an observation, but thought it interesting. Has your mare been barefoot a long time, or is this perhaps the foot readjusting after shoes, or injury...or...just a hoof being dynamic and clever  If she is sound, then it's all good, whatever the foot looks like.
Thanks for taking time to post pics (that goes for everyone on this thread) - i'm sure there are plenty looking at them and appreciating them, even if they have no comment to make ). 
Trina x


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## Rosehip (23 February 2012)

You have good eyes Trina! yes, her frog was skewed, again, that seemed to be a sudden onset just like the appearance of the massive event line and the heals running under. Its so wierd, one day her feet weere normal, the next they were like the 1st set of pics! Im not the best owner in the world, but I swear I would have noticed that colossal change....Im sure I would, and yet I somehow didnt! Makes me question everything!
Mels has - as far as I know - only ever been shod once in her life. When I bought her in 2008 she hadnt had her feet touched for approx 2 years, and had been owned by the people for around 4 years. I kept her unshod until she was diagnosed with Bone Spavin in 2009/2010 and then was pursuaded to have front shoes put on her so that when I was hacking her as part of her treatment she wouldnt get footsore. She hated being shod, slipped and had a strange gait, I had them taken off again after about a month, and since then she hasnt been near shoes. My other girl is also unshod, I think if they can be sound without shoes, then there is no point putting them on. 

Sorry, rambling completely, and somewhat Hijacking the thread!! x


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## nikkimariet (23 February 2012)

spookypony said:



			OK, my turn! 

These pictures are all of the left fore. The first 3 were taken shortly after I got the pony. He had not been seen by a farrier in about 6 months
(previous owners had been unable to catch him for farrier), and had developed very long, flared feet, with a rather huge crack in one hind. 
A farrier trimmed him just before he came, and these pics were taken at his first barefoot trimmer appointment, some weeks after his arrival.

















The second 3 were taken 6 months later, to chart progress. They are almost 3 years old now. The feet have continued to improve since then.
















Click to expand...

Spookypony that is one amazing change! Was he sound with the flare?


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## spookypony (24 February 2012)

nikkimariet said:



			Spookypony that is one amazing change! Was he sound with the flare?
		
Click to expand...

He was, yes! And he's always had a text-book heel-first landing. The "after" frontal pic, you may notice, isn't taken from head-on, but from slightly above. He still has a little flare going in that pic, but much less. Interestingly, while the trimmer initially tried to encourage the medial flare (on both fores) to go away completely, she is not so concerned about it now. He had a trim today, and she showed me how his heels are level and his sole well-shaped, even though the hoof is a decidedly wonky shape. She thinks that it's the shape he needs to compensate for somewhat wonky forelegs. He gets trimmed at 4 or 5-weekly intervals, and each time, the medial flare is apparent.


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## Rosehip (24 February 2012)

Its absolutely fascinating that your lad could be sound with that amount of medial flare Spookypony! And just as fascinating that he is still sound now that the flare has been taken back so much! Are the other 3 feet 'normal' or do they have flares too?? x


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## spookypony (24 February 2012)

Rosehip said:



			Its absolutely fascinating that your lad could be sound with that amount of medial flare Spookypony! And just as fascinating that he is still sound now that the flare has been taken back so much! Are the other 3 feet 'normal' or do they have flares too?? x
		
Click to expand...

Both his fronts have a bit of this wonkyness going on, but his hinds look really normal.


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## Oberon (24 February 2012)

spookypony said:



			He was, yes! And he's always had a text-book heel-first landing. The "after" frontal pic, you may notice, isn't taken from head-on, but from slightly above. He still has a little flare going in that pic, but much less. Interestingly, while the trimmer initially tried to encourage the medial flare (on both fores) to go away completely, she is not so concerned about it now. He had a trim today, and she showed me how his heels are level and his sole well-shaped, even though the hoof is a decidedly wonky shape. She thinks that it's the shape he needs to compensate for somewhat wonky forelegs. He gets trimmed at 4 or 5-weekly intervals, and each time, the medial flare is apparent.
		
Click to expand...

"If you trim something off and it pops back up by the time you come back, the horse needed it there." Pete Ramey.


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## nikkimariet (24 February 2012)

Oberon said:



			"If you trim something off and it pops back up by the time you come back, the horse needed it there." Pete Ramey.
		
Click to expand...

Very fitting!


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## Rosehip (24 February 2012)

Thats the way I view Seren's feet - her feet can look horrible when she is due a trim as she flares so much, but I can guarantee that within 3/4 weeks the flare will be back. We tried trimming her every 5/6 weeks, but it made her sore, so now I leave both her and Mels upto 10weeks, and she has never shown signs of sorness since. 
Ill have to get some proper pics, but these were taken after she foaled and was due a trim - note the massive flare - she was trotting and cantering on very firm ground with no problems at all. 



















And How she stands on them:







Ill have to get some better ones of her feet for this thread!


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## cptrayes (24 February 2012)

One of my favourite "good barefoot" pictures for you. 

My hunter's foot.

And the shoe that came off it 3 months before. Check the nail holes in the shoe - it is not physically possible to reattach that shoe.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6Ozz9sR8GT8/T0fOytjhTAI/AAAAAAAAA2w/K0U_EJYJ0e0/s1600/radarsfoot.jpg


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## cptrayes (24 February 2012)

Rosehip said:



			Thats the way I view Seren's feet - her feet can look horrible when she is due a trim as she flares so much, but I can guarantee that within 3/4 weeks the flare will be back. We tried trimming her every 5/6 weeks, but it made her sore, so now I leave both her and Mels upto 10weeks, and she has never shown signs of sorness since. 
Ill have to get some proper pics, but these were taken after she foaled and was due a trim - note the massive flare - she was trotting and cantering on very firm ground with no problems at all.
		
Click to expand...

Rosehip this is why I am not commenting much. I'm sure you won't take offence if I say that in those photos your mare's feet look appallingly trimmed and badly metabolically compromised. 

And yet she is trimmed by  a trimmer who really knows his stuff, and she is sound. Go figure, eh ?


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## Rosehip (24 February 2012)

cptrayes said:



			Rosehip this is why I am not commenting much. I'm sure you won't take offence if I say that in those photos your mare's feet look appallingly trimmed and *badly metabolically compromised. *

And yet she is trimmed by  a trimmer who really knows his stuff, and she is sound. Go figure, eh ?
		
Click to expand...

Actually thats very interesting Cptrayes, the pictures of Seren were taken the same week as the pictures of Melly on this thread, and I took them because I was freaking out that her P3 was going to fall through her sole! She was never lame and at the time not showing a pulse though. Approx 2 months before she foaled - so March (ish) 2011 - she did have a bounding pulse and was 'pottery' so she was immediately barned and went onto Top Spec Antilam instead of the stud ration she was previously on. The vet and my farrier put it down to the weight and pressure of a massive foal, and within a week she was back to 'normal'. 

I wish I knew more about metabolic issues, and what I need to be looking for! xx


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## spookypony (24 February 2012)

OK, took some new pictures today! The pony is currently sound, went for a 2hr20min hack today. The first set is of the left fore, where the point of interest is the medial flare. I've put the some of the old pictures again, for comparison.

Left fore, front view, when he arrived 3.5 years ago. This pic was taken a few weeks after farrier trim, before which he had not been trimmed for 6 months.






Left fore, current front view, showing wonky shape of foot. This seems to be how he wants his foot to grow.






Left fore, current side view. Excuse the mud!:






Left fore, top view after 6 months of trimming:






Left fore, current top view:






For comparison, here's his left hind, currently. It also wants to flare medially, but it's far less pronounced than the fore. His toe had really shot forward since his last trim! Excuse the mud all over the foot. I wish I had an old pic of this one: it had a spectacular crack most of the way up.


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## Rosehip (24 February 2012)

Wow spookypony! They are some really wonky feet!  But they look solid as a rock, and in lovely condition! My 36year old welshy had the same medial flare to his hind feet in his latter years, which we put down to the way his hind legs bowed out as he got older. Obviously thats not the case in your boys case, but it makes you wonder why he wants to grow feet like that, and how he stays sound on them!!x

Cyptrayes, that pic of your hunter is fascinating!! I always assumed that when a horse comes out of shoes their feet expand and spread to obtain their natural balance, but your pic shows that his foot has tightened. Really interesting! x


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## amandaco2 (24 February 2012)

cptrayes said:



			Rosehip this is why I am not commenting much. I'm sure you won't take offence if I say that in those photos your mare's feet look appallingly trimmed and badly metabolically compromised. 

And yet she is trimmed by  a trimmer who really knows his stuff, and she is sound. Go figure, eh ?
		
Click to expand...

i agree..............


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## Rosehip (24 February 2012)

Which bit do you agree with? Bad trimming....metabolic.....shes sound on wierd feet...?? 
If anyone wants to PM me rather than put something on an open thread please please do! I have noticed that *everyone* comments on the shod thread, but not many people are on here. I know that whatever the shape of the foot, of the horse is sound then it _cant_ be a bad trim...but hell, even with rose tinted glasses and a loyalty to my (frankly wonderful) farrier, I can see that someting went hellish wrong with both of my mares at the same point last year, and I have absolutely no idea why! x


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## cptrayes (24 February 2012)

Rosehip the "shoe" of horn and sole callous around your horses foot is normally only found on horses with very sensitive soles. I find it interesting that you have it without foot sensitivity. The top inch and a half of foot looks typical of the kind of quality produced by horses with huge insulin levels too, but your horse is happy and healthy. She's a complete barefoot conundrum!


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## cptrayes (24 February 2012)

Rosehip said:



			Cyptrayes, that pic of your hunter is fascinating!! I always assumed that when a horse comes out of shoes their feet expand and spread to obtain their natural balance, but your pic shows that his foot has tightened. Really interesting! x
		
Click to expand...

The other way is more common, that's for sure. He's a very big horse and I think that the farrier just assumed that his feet were meant to be that big and shod the foot he saw. But his action in them was a shambles and I bought him in spite of it, not because of it. 

As soon as he was put into work (I bought him as an unbroken 6 year old) and fed a good diet, that's what happened. He still has very big feet, but in proportion with a 17 hand middleweight horse and not the Shire feet his grandmother had


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## Rosehip (25 February 2012)

Really really interesting Cyptrayes, I know a farrier who bullnoses, makes the foot fit the shoe and yet is very very highly thought of around these parts, I wouldnt have him touch my horses!! I have never seen a foot go back from a shoe like that before - did all 4 do that? 

Which one of my girls do you mean re high insulin levels? Ive had Melly (big black hooves) tested, but not Seren (Little wonky white hooves!!) do you think I should have her tested? So sorry for completely hijacking this thread - should I PM you instead? I dont want to bug you!!x


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## cptrayes (25 February 2012)

Rosehip said:



			Really really interesting Cyptrayes, I know a farrier who bullnoses, makes the foot fit the shoe and yet is very very highly thought of around these parts, I wouldnt have him touch my horses!! I have never seen a foot go back from a shoe like that before - did all 4 do that? 

Which one of my girls do you mean re high insulin levels? Ive had Melly (big black hooves) tested, but not Seren (Little wonky white hooves!!) do you think I should have her tested? So sorry for completely hijacking this thread - should I PM you instead? I dont want to bug you!!x
		
Click to expand...

Yes, all four of his feet tightened up with work but the back two had never been shod so they weren't as bad. Some farriers seem to  deliberately allow feet to spread, maybe because it gives them more room to put the nails into. 

I have another horse who was similar, not as extreme, but I didn't take photos of him. In horses I have owned it's been about 30/20/50  smaller/stayed the same/bigger. The big horses seem to be the ones whose feet spread in shoes most, but I'm judging from a very small sample so trimmers who see lots might have more to say on that. 

Your white horse's feet seem to have very rough surface for the first inch and  a half, including the coronet band. To me, that looks suspicious and I see something very similar on a friend's brood mare which has sky high insulin levels.  Her horse is unsound though, so you do not have level of problem that she has.


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## Rosehip (25 February 2012)

Ahhh, that clarifies things! Ta! Ill take some piccys of Serens feet tonight, its almost a year since those pics were taken, so it will be a good comparrison 
They are both paddock sound in all paces, but neither of them have been out of the field for 6months - wheres that embarrassed smiley?!! - but I assume they would be sound on concrete, I have no reason to think otherwise! xx


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## Rosehip (25 February 2012)

Updated pics of Seren - the broodie!!

Left Fore:












Right Fore:












Sorry they arent flat to the floor, and a bit blurry....basically pants..... Im only 2 weeks out of a hysterectomy, so shouldnt really be grubbing round on the floor! lol! 
Im still a bit concerned about the lump at the toe area (I think theres a bit of shavings near it,,,let me see if there is a better pic!) It looks like the remnants of the large amount of sole that seems to be poking out in the pictures before. If that makes sense! 

Nope...all the other pics are too dark, sorry! x


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## cptrayes (26 February 2012)

They look completely different. Did she have a foal meanwhile? My friend with the IR mare has been told that if only she can get it into foal, that will most likely sort out its IR problems with the "work" that carrying a foal will give her body.

The piece of shedding sole is absolutely typical of a horse with sensitive soles which grew a protective false sole callous which it shed when it no longer needed it. I can show you photos of two the same if I can find them..

Here we go - an extreme case, IR horse, complete false sole callous shed when he was given a no-grass diet and his feet hardened up:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IaGqwoQlnmA/S6SUx_sDsxI/AAAAAAAAAog/k2BRKL9bLSg/s1600-h/PICT0132.JPG


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## Rosehip (26 February 2012)

Thanks Cyptrayes, yes, she was 9/10months preg in the 1st pics, and the foal is now nearly 9 months old, everything about her has improved since foaling, she seems a more robust pony in all ways, and her feet have never looked better. The farrier commented last time that her feet have harded up and that shis is starting to get some concavity back to her feet. They went very flat and very flared in the last couple of months gestation.

That pic is fab, is the foot that is coming away no longer needed by the horse and that is why it is coming off? 
Fascinating!!


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## Irishdan (26 February 2012)

This is my OHs 3 year old Rocky Mountain horses feet which he has been trimming himself since last October.  She has incredibly strong,  touch hooves - even more so than our donkey.  Any advise/critque welcomed


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## Rosehip (26 February 2012)

They look like beautiful feet Irishdan! Really strong and in lovely balance. The wellies in those pics are also fascinating me!! Im sooo easily distracted! Haha! Running the risk of sounding stupid, what is a rocky mountain horse?


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## cptrayes (26 February 2012)

Rosehip said:



 Thanks Cyptrayes, yes, she was 9/10months preg in the 1st pics, and the foal is now nearly 9 months old, everything about her has improved since foaling, she seems a more robust pony in all ways, and her feet have never looked better. The farrier commented last time that her feet have harded up and that shis is starting to get some concavity back to her feet. They went very flat and very flared in the last couple of months gestation.

That pic is fab, is the foot that is coming away no longer needed by the horse and that is why it is coming off? 
Fascinating!! 

Click to expand...

That's right. the false sole is a sort of "bandaid" that they produce very fast to prevent them hurting themselves. Some horses produce a 10p of it right over the point of the pedal bone. When it isn't needed any more, because the whole sole has got stronger, it peels off just like you can see.

I don't want to teach you to suck eggs, and can't remember what you posted about how you already manage her and tea is ready so I don't have time to look right now ,  but unless she is in foal again then you probably need to be watch out for the foot quality issues starting again, particularly with the grass that is already growing. The curent advice seems to be that the simplest way to keep on top of IR is at least 30 minutes exercise a day.

The "more robust in all ways" could be because excess insulin is like having a permanent hangover, it compromises the liver, the skin, the feet and from one I owned it can even cause them to have sweet itch.


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## Saluqihounds (26 February 2012)

Irishdan's O/H here.

Thanks Rosehip, she does have incredible feet, really hard hoof wall compared to our Welsh Cob and even our Donkey, you can really feel the difference when rasping! She has great concavity as well, it's also great her being only 3 this summer she has never be shod so has not had any of the negative effects of shoeing.

A Rocky Mountain Horse is a North American gaited breed Meaning she does a natural 4 beat ambling gait which is incredibly smooth riding, they are the ultimate trail/traveling horse.







"The breed is best known for gentleness. It is an easy keeper and a wonderful riding horse with a strong heart and endurance. Many of the horses are descendents of  Tobe, a stallion owned by  Sam Tuttle who stated that he bred  for the smooth four beat saddle gait, the excellent disposition, and its versatility. Today the Rocky Mountain Horse® is being used as a pleasure horse, for trail, and competitive or endurance riding. As show horses, the breed is rapidly gaining in popularity because of its beauty and unique way of moving in the ring. The calm temperament of this horse makes it ideally suited for working around cattle and for 4-H projects. Rocky Mountain Horses have a lot of natural endurance, they are sure-footed on rough ground and, because of their gait, they require a minimum of effort by both horse and rider so that together they can cover a greater distance with less tiring.  

In 1986 Rocky Mountain Horse Association was formed. The association has established a registry with standards be maintained and a panel of examiners has been set up by the association to provide vigorous supervisors to the growth and development of the breed. To achieve this, ALL horses must be examined for breed characteristics and approved prior to breeding. The established characteristics for the breed are:  

1. The horse must be of medium height from 14-2 to 16 hands, a wide chest sloping 45 degrees on the shoulder with bold eyes and well shaped ears.  

2. The horse must have a natural ambling four-beat gait (single foot or rack) with no evidence of pacing. When the horse  moves you can count four distinct hoof beats which produce a cadence of equal rhythm, just like a walk: left hind, left  fore, right hind, right fore. Each individual horse has its own speed and natural way of going, traveling 7-20 miles per  hour. This is a naturally occurring gait present from birth that does not require any training aids or action devices (i.e. chains, soring or built up shoes.)  

3. It must be of good temperament and easy to manage.  

4. All Rocky Mountain Horses® have a solid body color. Facial markings are acceptable so long as they are not excessive. There may not be any white above the knee or hock. "  

Oh and the boots they are Irish Setter Outrider's.


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## abitodd (26 February 2012)

Here are pictures from today of my KWPN's feet.
He is mainly self trimming but I do have a farrier who only does  barefoot horses appaising him every 8 weeks or so. I choose to use a farrier because I am aware that any insurance claims from the knee down require an accredited professional to be regularly tending the feet.

The last appraisal was a week ago and ther was a little to remove from the heels because I had not been riding as much due to the weather. The farrier will also point out any abonomilies which is a great help with my management and training regime.

This horse has never been shod. I bought him as an unbacked 4 year old and have backed him and trained him myself.He is now 8.He has no issues with tarmac or loose rocky terrain. He was stuggling along a particular track and I got off and lead him and immediately understood that walking on fixed cobbles covered in greasy mud is uncomfortable(and I was not carrying a rider!) Working without shoes has taught me so much and I am still learning. My new youngster who is 20 month old really struggled walking up a tarmac hill. She was used to the ground yielding when she dug her toes in to climb. She had to learn to push from behind. 
Her feet will be even more exciting than her Dutch uncles because she has never had molasses or cereals and lives on a variety of surfaces and she has always had the top man looking after her feet!


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## Oberon (26 February 2012)

[If I am allowed to comment on THIS thread]

They are very sexy hooves, abitodd


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## abitodd (26 February 2012)

Oberon said:



			[If I am allowed to comment on THIS thread]

They are very sexy hooves, abitodd 

Click to expand...

Thanks Oberon!

I spend many hours admiring and marvelling at them. 
You should see them in the summer when I am hacking every day and they are not plastered in mud!


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## Andalucian (26 February 2012)

Oberon said:



			[If I am allowed to comment on THIS thread]

They are very sexy hooves, abitodd 

Click to expand...

Hell yeah, mighty fine examples.


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## Oberon (26 February 2012)

abitodd said:



			Thanks Oberon!

I spend many hours admiring and marvelling at them. 
You should see them in the summer when I am hacking every day and they are not plastered in mud!
		
Click to expand...

A livery rode past me on her youngster yesterday and I marvelled (out loud) to the owner about the horse's lovely heel first landing....

.....and everyone looked at me like I was a nut job


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## Andalucian (26 February 2012)

Oberon said:



			.....and everyone looked at me like I was a nut job 
	
	
		
		
	


	










Click to expand...

....and you're surprised


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## Rosehip (26 February 2012)

Oberon said:



			[If I am allowed to comment on THIS thread]

They are very sexy hooves, abitodd 

Click to expand...

Yaaaaayyyy! Oberon!!  Always welcome here 

I have to say Abitodd, they are some super feet, and I would _never_ have said they belonged to a WB!!! Amazing!!

Saluqihounds & IrishDan - that horse is simply beautiful! Looks as though she will be a lovely ride when she is all grown up  SHe has a very genuine look about her. 

Cyptrayes, that is what I can see on Seri's feet now then, just a 20p size piece right on the toe of both front feet. The grass is starting to grow with us now, so I have upped her magnesium from 1/2 a 3gm measure to a full measure, and put both girls back on laminitis prone (global herbs) at 10ml/day, mels will go up to 20ml peak season and Seri about 15ml. She isnt back in foal for this year as the idea is that she will come out in the show ring in hand, and continue her education for driving. Ill hopefully be well/strong enough by next week to begin lunging her again.  Thanks very much for all your advice!! xx


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## GinaGeo (26 February 2012)

Note to self: must get pictures of my youngster's strange looking feet. He's barefoot always has been and is four this year. He's what I think would be called a "rock cruncher". I hadn't even thought about a horse not needing shoes until we had him. He shan't be having any on in the future. 

In the meantime I've pulled off my connies shoes.  His feet have a long way to go. His shoes have only been off for about a month. He's sore in front on stoney ground, fine behind and fine allround in tarmac and a surface. I'm riding him in hoofboots on the front currently. And with those on he's happy as larry and skips along.


Here're his feet.

Near Fore





















Off Fore





















Near hind





















Off hind





















I'm currently doing battle with thrush allround. Although the near hind is by far the worst. The farrier took the shoes off and did little else. The balance hasn't been messed with and seems to be what he wants or at least it will be eventually I think, I can see compared to previous photos that his frogs are getting wider and the toe shorter. 

Any other thoughts are very welcome!
Thanks!
G


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## CobSunshine (26 February 2012)

Never wore shoes, farrier says very strong and hard. Due his 8 week trim next week. 

He does have some stretch marks on his front hooves from when he was 250 kilo overweight  when the previous owner bought him. 

Down to a svelte 430 kilo now.


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## cptrayes (26 February 2012)

What interesting feet!

I have never seen a tighter white line in my life, or a thicker hoof wall.

They are very unusual in the apparent height of the hoof wall above the sole. I only point it out so that people new to barefoot don't think that their horses "should" be growing a shoe like your horse does.
It isn't commonly that way.  But it obviously works well for your boy and he has stonking feet, doesn't he?!?

As a point of interest, are his frogs in contact with the floor - are you able to slide a ruler underneath them when he's stood on concrete?  And does your farrier scrape his soles or are they always that smooth and white?


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## CobSunshine (26 February 2012)

cptrayes said:



			What interesting feet!

I have never seen a tighter white line in my life, or a thicker hoof wall.

They are very unusual in the apparent height of the hoof wall above the sole. I only point it out so that people new to barefoot don't think that their horses "should" be growing a shoe like your horse does.
It isn't commonly that way.  But it obviously works well for your boy and he has stonking feet, doesn't he?!?

As a point of interest, are his frogs in contact with the floor - are you able to slide a ruler underneath them when he's stood on concrete?  And does your farrier scrape his soles or are they always that smooth and white?
		
Click to expand...


Just wiki'd white line LOL is it the bit between the hoof edge and the flat sole? is it in all pics or just one? 

Farrier scrapes his frogs, and trims the edges of hoof, never touches the smooth white sole. 

These pics are taken after cleaning legs and feet and staying in stable overnight. Farrier is always amazed by them, never tried the ruler thing?


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## Rosehip (27 February 2012)

Cobsunshine - completely agree with Cyptrayes with regards the white line/hoof wall height - its definately unusual, but obviously working for your lad!!
the amount of hoof wall & sole remind me a bit of my little ones feet (white feet on page 6 I think??) although her sole was at the same level as the hoof wall, where as your boy has lovely concavity, and the cleanest soles!!! They look so smooth! 
xx


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## Erin (27 February 2012)

These are Reena's feet after 6 weeks of complete box rest and surgery on her right fore fetlock (13/11/11)
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/erinshaw86/ReenaFeet/13 Nov 2011/

3 days after these pics where taken she had the bandage off and started her walk programme.

And these pics are from the weekend - she's now having 3hrs turnout in the morning and 40mins walking in the afternoon.
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/erinshaw86/ReenaFeet/25th Feb 2012/

Far from perfect, but going in the right direction!


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## CobSunshine (27 February 2012)

Rosehip said:



			Cobsunshine - completely agree with Cyptrayes with regards the white line/hoof wall height - its definately unusual, but obviously working for your lad!!
the amount of hoof wall & sole remind me a bit of my little ones feet (white feet on page 6 I think??) although her sole was at the same level as the hoof wall, where as your boy has lovely concavity, and the cleanest soles!!! They look so smooth! 
xx
		
Click to expand...



i'll take some pics this weekend after he's had his trim. 

So how would a hoof traditionally grow, does the sole grow too to keep it always flat, or does the hoof wall grow outwards rather than downwards?


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## Rosehip (27 February 2012)

Cobsunsine - my girl had flat feet, which is something that we want to go away from and encourage concavity - which your lad has. Cyptrayes and Oberon will explain it waaaaay better than me!!xx


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## CobSunshine (27 February 2012)

Rosehip said:



			Cobsunsine - my girl had flat feet, which is something that we want to go away from and encourage concavity - which your lad has. Cyptrayes and Oberon will explain it waaaaay better than me!!xx
		
Click to expand...

I hope they come on the thread interested to learn more 


Found this pic from last summer, taken right after a trim. Not sure why the hoove uppers above the farriers smooth off, are a different colour to now, unless they dry out more resulting in the change in colour


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## cptrayes (27 February 2012)

CobSunshine said:



			i'll take some pics this weekend after he's had his trim. 

So how would a hoof traditionally grow, does the sole grow too to keep it always flat, or does the hoof wall grow outwards rather than downwards?
		
Click to expand...

In most working barefoot horses, the height of the hoof wall is worn to a level which is either at or barely above the height of the sole. The sole can been nicely concave, and the depth at the centre curves up, through the white  line and into the hoof wall in an uninterrupted line, especially at the toe. It isn't normal for a horse to grow a "horseshoe" of hoof wall, or a horseshoe of hoof wall and sole callous. In very general terms, if you can see an obvious "shoe" on the bottom of your horse's foot, it would not be a foot which would normally be considered a "good" barefoot foot. Though obviously if the horse is long term sound and happy he is entitled to disagree 

This is a picture of a "normal" hardworking foot - can you see that there is no apparent height at all in the hoof wall, and the sole just runs straight into it and the outside edge of the sole meets the floor at the same time as the hoof wall? The frog is ground bearing and the heels are big and meaty and great shock absorbers with the horse putting its heel to the ground first as it walks.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--cRmYGIxIfM/T0wQsZvNasI/AAAAAAAAA24/24hosVb6W5k/s1600/0022.JPG


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## LucyPriory (28 February 2012)

I like this foot (see link) for so many reasons.  Very sound, quite hard working, kept at livery on the 'wrong sort of grass', and attached to one of the breeds of horse we keep being told can't go barefoot.  Fortunately no one told the horse.  But equally true, I don't think there would be such a good outcome if it weren't for the carer's attention to detail and diet.

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/in-eye-of-beholder.html


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## YasandCrystal (28 February 2012)

CobSunshine said:



			I hope they come on the thread interested to learn more 


Found this pic from last summer, taken right after a trim. Not sure why the hoove uppers above the farriers smooth off, are a different colour to now, unless they dry out more resulting in the change in colour






Click to expand...

Your horse has fab feet


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## CBFan (28 February 2012)

Abitodd... I'm green with Envy! Those feet look GORGEOUS!

These are my boys feet - Posted the other day as they are due for a trim this coming week but there isn't a great deal to take off, so we're leaving it for 6 weeks. I've actually rolled his fronts a little since these pics (which he seems to need every few weeks) and I realise these aren't perfect feet - he's still telling me so occasionally! I'm currently awaiting the results of a hay analysis and diet plan to come through, so hopefully that may give me some answers, but if anyone wants to tell me how they think they can be improved, please feel free to explain! I'm still learning!

NB these feet belong to a 17hh 4.5 year old CB Gelding, who has never been shod.. he is schooled twice a week for about 45 minutes on Sand and rubber and then hacked twice on a variety of terrain for up to an hour and a half... often needing boots on for one of those hacks ... still not achieving consistent heel first landing 

LF:


















LH



















RH
 (Stood odly for this one - Sorry!)


















RF



















ETS... Sorry about the pooey feet! and He had horrendous flare on the outside of the hinds which we have been dealing with over the last 7 months...


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## forestfantasy (28 February 2012)

Sorry to invade again!
For anyone who wanted updates on Fantas feet here you go!
These are from Sunday just gone so were coming up for 3 1/2 months of no shoes - still a long way to go!







OF
















NF


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## JessandCharlie (28 February 2012)

Not perfect, but I think these pictures show the beginnings of good barefeet  They are old pictures, so will try and take some up to date ones, but I like how they show a drastic change in the new horn being grown 









































5yo TB, I think you can all guess the event line that marks removal of shoes  Is sound on all surfaces now other than hard ground with large, loose stones on top, but I'll forgive him for that 

J&C


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## JessandCharlie (28 February 2012)

ETA: So interesting to look back at those ^^ actually, his bars are far meatier now, as are the bulbs of his heels. Will definitely get more pictures 

J&C


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## forestfantasy (28 February 2012)

Amazing pics J & C!


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## Rosehip (28 February 2012)

Oh wow J&C, they are amazing pics! That event line is so marked, I cant wait for updated piccys!
FF, the new pics do show a change in the right direction  Its going to be a long, wonky road with her though isnt it! Is Fanta sound that the mo? It never fails to amaze me how feet work!! x


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## abitodd (28 February 2012)

Thanks CBfan. For the record here is a front foot from when this horse was 4.5 years and only 16.2!






Back to today 4years on.He has grown a hand,but his feet have shrunk!






It has not been easy and there have been many times when he was not happy over all surfaces. This was partly due to the fact he was still growing and I was expecting too much but mainly due to weak stifles,particularly the right stifle.
This is NOT a stoic horse and he can get very negative if he has a tiny 'hurty'. When his stifle troubles him,he takes more weight on the forehand and becomes sensitive to everything including stones.I percieved this as a problem with his feet,tried boots and even toyed with the idea of shoes......but farrier would not let me and said there was nothing wrong with the hooves!
For me the key has been patience,both for the feet to come right and the rest of his body to come right. Big horses like warmbloods and CBs take ages to mature,ages to get fit and that includes the feet.
Dietry tweaks may also have helped. I have removed Alfalfa from his diet and sugar beet(even the unmollassed stuff did not suit him.) He now eats rough pasture,meadow hay and Pure Easy with a bit of Pure Balance.
This recipe seems to be working for him.
If highly bred warmbloods can do it,so can Cleveland Bays!


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## Oberon (28 February 2012)

JessandCharlie said:



			Not perfect, but I think these pictures show the beginnings of good barefeet  They are old pictures, so will try and take some up to date ones, but I like how they show a drastic change in the new horn being grown 

5yo TB, I think you can all guess the event line that marks removal of shoes  Is sound on all surfaces now other than hard ground with large, loose stones on top, but I'll forgive him for that 

J&C
		
Click to expand...

OOh. It's YOU!
	
	
		
		
	


	





I remember those amazing photos and often wanted to refer back to them - but couldn't remember who's they were or where I'd seen them.

Truly amazing pics. I'm going to save them to my Photobucket and use them in the future

I'd LOVE to see updated pics.


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## nikkimariet (28 February 2012)

Really enjoying seeing everyone's pics and reading the background info - learning a lot


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## JessandCharlie (28 February 2012)

Glad you enjoyed  like nmt, I'm loving looking through these! Some brilliantly strong, capable looking feet to aspire to 

Will definitely get more photos ASAP  I'll even wash them off really well first because I'm nice like that  

J&C


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## abitodd (28 February 2012)

JessandCharlie said:



			Will definitely get more photos ASAP  I'll even wash them off really well first because I'm nice like that  

J&C
		
Click to expand...

Yes,point taken!
In my defense,I did mention that the horse who owns the muddy feet is very sensitive. He has a huge problem with hosepipes and buckets of water(although he will wade through rivers) Washing his feet was not worth the risk to him,me,the cars and the camera!


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## CBFan (28 February 2012)

Thank you for the reasurance abitodd! That really means a lot and rings so familiar with my boy... in fact he's going for xrays of his stifles on Monday - hopefully just to put my mind at rest but I know he definately has a weakness there. We had a lesson on Saturday which got us moving in a much more positive manner so if we can keep that up I'm hoping his feet and action will improve  I'm sure his feet are already smaller than they were this time last year too 

The diet is still in the trial stages... I've made some pretty small but significant changes in the last year - he has never been on mixes or high sugar feeds but there are things we have changed and mada difference all the same - dropped alfa-alfa products for graze-on dropped graze on added magnesim, biotin and brewers yeast.. have just had frage analysed so we'll see what that shows up


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## JessandCharlie (28 February 2012)

! Definitely not aimed at anyone! Sorry, it did sound like I was hinting, I wasn't! Promise!  in fact, I was more referring to the fact that his feet were filthy in my set of pics 

Sorry, it really did sound awful in retrospect  

J&C

PS your horse's feet are incredible! I did have yours in mind when I said I had some pictures of great feet to aspire to


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## abitodd (28 February 2012)

CBFan said:



			Thank you for the reasurance abitodd! That really means a lot and rings so familiar with my boy... in fact he's going for xrays of his stifles on Monday - hopefully just to put my mind at rest but I know he definately has a weakness there. We had a lesson on Saturday which got us moving in a much more positive manner so if we can keep that up I'm hoping his feet and action will improve  I'm sure his feet are already smaller than they were this time last year too 

The diet is still in the trial stages... I've made some pretty small but significant changes in the last year - he has never been on mixes or high sugar feeds but there are things we have changed and mada difference all the same - dropped alfa-alfa products for graze-on dropped graze on added magnesim, biotin and brewers yeast.. have just had frage analysed so we'll see what that shows up

Click to expand...

It may be tough trying to figure it all out,but it's a wonderful learning curve with a host of 'right' answers,but only you can find the right one for your boy.And I think that the horse's way of going is very significant. Once they start working through with more weight behind and a lifted back,they seem to glide over any surface.
Will be interested to hear what the stifle X-rays show.Do keep us posted.



JessandCharlie said:



! Definitely not aimed at anyone! Sorry, it did sound like I was hinting, I wasn't! Promise!  in fact, I was more referring to the fact that his feet were filthy in my set of pics 

Sorry, it really did sound awful in retrospect  

J&C

PS your horse's feet are incredible! I did have yours in mind when I said I had some pictures of great feet to aspire to 

Click to expand...

No offence taken. Thought it was funny.


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## forestfantasy (29 February 2012)

Rosehip said:



			Oh wow J&C, they are amazing pics! That event line is so marked, I cant wait for updated piccys!
FF, the new pics do show a change in the right direction  Its going to be a long, wonky road with her though isnt it! Is Fanta sound that the mo? It never fails to amaze me how feet work!! x
		
Click to expand...

Yes, amazingly she has been sound throughout this whole process - apart from being a little footy on stones in the early stages.
It does amaze me to look at how wonky they are!
I'm just hoping she know what shes doing!


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## laura_nash (29 February 2012)

These are my boys front feet, taken very recently (apologies for the poor side view, I took them to get some boot advice so I was focussed on the sole's). I'm bringing him back into work after 6 months off (due to my pregnancy) and I'm pleased with how they are doing considering he has been doing no work and doesn't have ideal living conditions (standard livery with 6hrs turnout a day in the winter).  He is a little footy on stony paths so is back to wearing boots in front out hacking, though that isn't easy because his feet are 2cm wider than long and he dishes!  Interestingly he always had RF smaller than LF (commented on by farrier when I bought him and noticeable when I measured for boots when the shoes first came off).  I measured hime again a couple of weeks ago and they are now both the same size.

http://s706.photobucket.com/albums/ww69/laura_Nash/Triggers hooves/

He's been barefoot two years, trimmed by my farrier.


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## CBFan (29 February 2012)

Just had the results of my Forage analysis through - Shows very high Calcium and Chloride and high sodium, manganese and Iodine with low Magnesium, Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Cobalt, 

Just waiting for a diet plan now  Exciting times


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## JessandCharlie (1 March 2012)

This one is interesting. If you look about halfway down, you can see (I hope) a section of wall that almost looks like it&#8217;s not as well connected as the wall above and below it. I have no idea if this is just coincidence or not, but that would correspond with the time that I had to temporarily change his feed to a higher starch alternative for a little while, as my feed order was delayed 





















I love how this one ^^ shows how that massive event line is growing out now 

































I&#8217;m aware that his heel should probably be a little lower than they are, and intend to sort that out slowly, as his feet strengthen further, to have the frogs loading a little more. Frogs are shedding, and although you can&#8217;t really see in pics, the frog below the loose bits is looking really nice  I assume it&#8217;s because he&#8217;s growing a much better frog, and getting rid of the &#8216;old&#8217; frog he had in shoes. 

Interesting that he&#8217;s also a (wannabe) dressage horse with higher than textbook heels. He&#8217;s not schooling to any great level though &#8211; wonder if it&#8217;s to do with the volume of work on a surface? He doesn&#8217;t hack as much as I&#8217;d like atm (will when days are a bit longer) so most of his work is in the school. I&#8217;m sure I read that often feral horses in very sandy areas have more concave feet, with higher heels than those on harder, rockier ground, which would make sense. 

Any thoughts/observations etc. more than welcome 

J&C


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## JessandCharlie (1 March 2012)

! They're huge sorry!


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## forestfantasy (2 March 2012)

Bumping this back up! It keeps disappearing! 
really interesting pics J&C


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## Oberon (2 March 2012)

JessandCharlie said:



			This one is interesting. If you look about halfway down, you can see (I hope) a section of wall that almost looks like its not as well connected as the wall above and below it. I have no idea if this is just coincidence or not, but that would correspond with the time that I had to temporarily change his feed to a higher starch alternative for a little while, as my feed order was delayed 

Click to expand...

It looks like your horse is very sensitive to feed. There is still some flaring and the WL is still stretched - so I's keep an eye on that. My old boy's WL tightened up after two weeks of feeding balanced minerals, so the hooves are that dynamic.



JessandCharlie said:



			Im aware that his heel should probably be a little lower than they are, and intend to sort that out slowly, as his feet strengthen further, to have the frogs loading a little more. Frogs are shedding, and although you cant really see in pics, the frog below the loose bits is looking really nice  I assume its because hes growing a much better frog, and getting rid of the old frog he had in shoes. 

Interesting that hes also a (wannabe) dressage horse with higher than textbook heels. Hes not schooling to any great level though  wonder if its to do with the volume of work on a surface? He doesnt hack as much as Id like atm (will when days are a bit longer) so most of his work is in the school. Im sure I read that often feral horses in very sandy areas have more concave feet, with higher heels than those on harder, rockier ground, which would make sense. 

Any thoughts/observations etc. more than welcome 

J&C
		
Click to expand...

He still looks a bit weak at the back of the foot. The sulcus is still way too deep - I wonder if it's sensitive to a hoof pick back there? And there is evidence of excess wear to the toe in some pics - which indicates a toe-first landing and a heel that is not comfy enough to bear weight yet. 

So if he is still weak and tender in the back of the hoof - then the higher heel is a good idea in order to protect him for now. If he was dumped onto his heel at the moment, he'd just start walking on his toes full-time and you'd never get anywhere. 

It is true that horses from deserts have a higher concavity than those from firm terrain. As the horse fully loads the foot, he will compress the sole to obtain ground contact. If he is on hard ground, he will want less space to compress onto.

But in a domestic horse this should equate to the ground that he lives AND works in. One hour of work won't make the difference in concavity to a horse - it's the other 23 hours that do.

You will find that diet is also a large factor in concavity, as it's related to depth of sole and positioning of P3 in the hoof capsule. 

My old boy has concavity and looked perfect in Dec 2009, Then in Jan, he had vaccines and that kicked off all kinds of problems....I started feeding him alfalfa pellets and a forage replacer diet in accordance with the vet's advice.

He never regained concavity until I overhauled the diet again in 2011 - I ditched the alfalfa and balanced minerals and then the concavity came back...

Turns out the alfalfa was too high in calcium for my grazing and it was just messing up everything minerals wise 

I live and learn


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## JessandCharlie (2 March 2012)

Hi Oberon  

I was thinking that I'd begin to (verrry slowly) lower the heels, to load the frog so they'd begin to strengthen further? I figured if I don't, they'll continue to stay as they are  I won't be dumping the heels of course, it would be done very gradually so he stays comfortable  he is landing heel first, btw, so I don't think he's sore. I'm pretty scrupulous about checking for thrush, and even a pretty hefty amount of prodding with a hoof pick doesn't cause a reaction, if I suspect any thrush it's treated ASAP, but I don't atm  

Forage analysis would be great, but he's turned out on such a vast area, I have a feeling it would take me forever, so I've ordered some pro hoof instead. He's fed the lowest starch and sugar diet I can possibly find (that keeps weight on him) and I think you can see in the pics that the hoof is growing a bit tighter with each diet change, as I'm working out what works for him  

He's turned out on pretty soft ground too, which doesn't help him wear his feet much. Bring on summer when I can hack properly!  

J&C


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## JessandCharlie (2 March 2012)

ETA: should have made it clear that pro pod hasn't arrived yet, but I will post more pics in a few weeks when it's had a chance to work, and report back 

J&C


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## lazybee (3 March 2012)

I've been reading this post for a few days and have been thinking........ One thing to bare in mind here. It has been mentioned a few times in this thread that the horse will grow the hoof he needs etc, also there's a quote about if you trim something off and it grows back, then horse needed it it there. 
This isn't necessarily true when you think how many runners, walkers etc need Orthotic insoles in their boots or running shoes to prevent soft tissue damage and problems later in life. I currently have 4 out of 6 shoeless. There's no way the other 2 could cope without shoes (fronts only). Conformation has to be considered prior to making any choices that could cause future problems.


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## cptrayes (3 March 2012)

lazybee said:



			I've been reading this post for a few days and have been thinking........ One thing to bare in mind here. It has been mentioned a few times in this thread that the horse will grow the hoof he needs etc, also there's a quote about if you trim something off and it grows back, then horse needed it it there. 
This isn't necessarily true when you think how many runners, walkers etc need Orthotic insoles in their boots or running shoes to prevent soft tissue damage and problems later in life. I currently have 4 out of 6 shoeless. There's no way the other 2 could cope without shoes (fronts only). Conformation has to be considered prior to making any choices that could cause future problems.
		
Click to expand...

The whole point is that humans need inserts because they can't grow their own. The reason horses grow peculiar shaped feet is _*exactly the same reason *_as why athletes need inserts. 

If your horses are shod on front to keep their feet "looking" right when their legs/body aren't straight then they are causing the very stresses and strains that will create the soft tissue damage that human athletes use inserts to prevent.


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## LucyPriory (3 March 2012)

Personally the human shoe inserts analogy doesn't work for me.  Having had them inflicted on me and suffered immense pain in knees and hips I realised that my feet were doing what they needed to in order to keep my hips and knees in good order.  

I get on best in plimsols.........  completely flat and only serve to protect my feet from glass and dog mess.  

I've seen x-rays of a horse's knees where the horse was shod to be straight and the knees were in deep trouble as a result with the joint heavily compressed on one side and wide open on the other.

I agree with CPTrayes and have found time and time again that the horse is perfectly capable of growing the foot she needs for the body she has if only we manage the horse properly.  The tragedy is so few people seem to realise this.


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## lazybee (3 March 2012)

cptrayes said:



			The whole point is that humans need inserts because they can't grow their own. The reason horses grow peculiar shaped feet is _*exactly the same reason *_as why athletes need inserts. 

If your horses are shod on front to keep their feet "looking" right when their legs/body aren't straight then they are causing the very stresses and strains that will create the soft tissue damage that human athletes use inserts to prevent.
		
Click to expand...

That seems be true in most cases I agree as observed with _most_ of my own horses I just don't like to generalise. There are always some exceptions. For example, one of mine is pigeon toed and will rapidly wear out the inside edges to such a point as to make himself lame. When shod he transfers his weight more evenly through his joints and is much more balanced; this has nothing to do with simply trying to make it look right. This is demonstrated perfectly well when he's trotting on the tarmac; his footfalls are spookily silent and you'd never believe he had metal shoes on; more like carpet slippers. So summing up he can't be relied upon to grow his own as per his needs.


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## cptrayes (3 March 2012)

lazybee said:



			That seems be true in most cases I agree as observed with _most_ of my own horses I just don't like to generalise. There are always some exceptions. For example, one of mine is pigeon toed and will rapidly wear out the inside edges to such a point as to make himself lame. When shod he transfers his weight more evenly through his joints and is much more balanced; this has nothing to do with simply trying to make it look right. This is demonstrated perfectly well when he's trotting on the tarmac; his footfalls are spookily silent and you'd never believe he had metal shoes on; more like carpet slippers. So summing up he can't be relied upon to grow his own as per his needs.
		
Click to expand...

We'll have to agree to differ. I think he is, but perhaps you did not leave him long enough to find out. If left long enough, the areas subject to excessive wear grow much thicker horn to prevent imbalance that is wrong for the foot. I can understand why you may not have wanted to back off the work for up to a year to wait for this to happen, but it isn't to say that he cannot manage barefoot. I doubt very much, if you had a pressure analysis of his joints, that shoeing him is loading his joints more evenly than they would load if he had been allowed to develop the right foot for his wonky joints, but then that's why I'm called a barefoot evangelist 


My barefoot boys make a noise like firecrackers going off when they trot on a hard flat surface. I'd say your horse's soft footfalls with metal shoes on may even indicate that he is putting his feet down softly to avoid concussion on the joints.  It is not normal for a shod foot to make as much noise as if the horse was wearing slippers, it would worry me.


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## lazybee (3 March 2012)

cptrayes said:



			We'll have to agree to differ. I think he is, but perhaps you did not leave him long enough to find out. If left long enough, the areas subject to excessive wear grow much thicker horn to prevent imbalance that is wrong for the foot. I can understand why you may not have wanted to back off the work for up to a year to wait for this to happen, but it isn't to say that he cannot manage barefoot. I doubt very much, if you had a pressure analysis of his joints, that shoeing him is loading his joints more evenly than they would load if he had been allowed to develop the right foot for his wonky joints, but then that's why *I'm called a barefoot evangelist *


My barefoot boys make a noise like firecrackers going off when they trot on a hard flat surface. I'd say your horse's soft footfalls with metal shoes on may even indicate that he is putting his feet down softly to avoid concussion on the joints.  It is not normal for a shod foot to make as much noise as if the horse was wearing slippers, it would worry me.
		
Click to expand...

I see myself more as a barefoot realist


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## CobSunshine (4 March 2012)

CobSunshine said:



			Never wore shoes, farrier says very strong and hard. Due his 8 week trim next week. 

He does have some stretch marks on his front hooves from when he was 250 kilo overweight  when the previous owner bought him. 

Down to a svelte 430 kilo now. 




































Click to expand...


Oberon i'd be interested in your thoughts too on my Ponys never shod feet.


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## abitodd (7 March 2012)

For anyone interested in barefoot horses,there is now a fab facebook page.
My farrier is posting daily pictures and there's lots info on courses(e.g.dissection day for all)  
Well worth a visit.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...2250686&type=1#!/pages/UKNHCP/326130354104148


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## Oberon (7 March 2012)

CobSunshine said:



			Oberon i'd be interested in your thoughts too on my Ponys never shod feet.
		
Click to expand...

Obviously you are doing well, slimming him down. His hooves look strong, with robust heels.

It's difficult to see the angle of growth due to his hair but his WL is stretched and his soles are pancake flat - which is shouting diet to me.

He's dragging his toes - any problem further up? Saddle fit ok?

Also - is the first pic's stance looks like he's standing strangely? Is it just the pic?


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## CobSunshine (7 March 2012)

Oberon said:



			Obviously you are doing well, slimming him down. His hooves look strong, with robust heels.

It's difficult to see the angle of growth due to his hair but his WL is stretched and his soles are pancake flat - which is shouting diet to me.

He's dragging his toes - any problem further up? Saddle fit ok?

Also - is the first pic's stance looks like he's standing strangely? Is it just the pic?
		
Click to expand...


Saddle and tack all ok, he's always very surefooted, old owner did mention stretch marks on front hooves from when he was over 700 kilo!! and put a lot of weight on his front feet. Pic taken from rather top down angle, heres some pics of him in motion if this helps show how he lands his feet?


*click to enlarge*


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## Oberon (7 March 2012)

He's lovely 

The stance was the pic angle then.

I'm just wondering why he's dragging his toes?

I noticed my Arab's white line tightened up after two week's of feeding balanced minerals.

It may be he needs his diet looking at again if you develop any problems


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## CobSunshine (8 March 2012)

all he has is 247 graze out and happy hoof. don't want to continue with 2 kilo of happy hoof when spring grass comes through so thinking top spec for his vitamins?


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## CobSunshine (10 March 2012)

Front hooves after a trim today


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## forestfantasy (12 March 2012)

Hi,

Thought i would update you all on Fantas feet.
The small boxy foot is becoming less pointy & 'pidgeon toed' in these last few weeks  I think at last both sides of the foot are matching in their growth rates.
She is also amazingly sure footed now and hardly ever has an 'ouchy' stone moment now 
I rode on saturday and found a new pace! Yes, this sounds silly but everyone told me she would start to move differently as her feet change - i was sceptical myself.
Soooo... Saturday we did our usual 'round the block' ride, which incorperates a nice hill for a good trot, we set off, horsey was a bit lazy due to the warmth so i squeezed on for a little more pace and instead got an amazing extended trot!
I have owned this horse since a foal & backed her myself and can honestly say i have never experienced her move like she did on Saturday. 
Sooo pleased with her & can't wait to see the difference when she has a total new foot 
Will post pics again this week when i get a chance


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## Oberon (12 March 2012)

CobSunshine said:



			all he has is 247 graze out and happy hoof. don't want to continue with 2 kilo of happy hoof when spring grass comes through so thinking top spec for his vitamins?
		
Click to expand...

There is plenty of dietary advice on here
http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/forum8.php&sid=a3ffe2c57f0d90439a17408ffab7e9db

Top Spec sounds very nice (as does Happy Hoof) but the mineral balance is the key. Some owners of BF horses have struggled with Top Spec feeds and balancers. And as he is already shouting at me with his hooves, "Diet, diet, diet", I would look carefully at you choose.


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## CobSunshine (12 March 2012)

Oberon said:



			There is plenty of dietary advice on here
http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/forum8.php&sid=a3ffe2c57f0d90439a17408ffab7e9db

Top Spec sounds very nice (as does Happy Hoof) but the mineral balance is the key. Some owners of BF horses have struggled with Top Spec feeds and balancers. And as he is already shouting at me with his hooves, "Diet, diet, diet", I would look carefully at you choose. 

Click to expand...


Thanks Oberon, 
When you say "Diet" do you mean in terms of weight loss or in terms of getting the macro nutrient % right?

Is that going as in depth as having grass field analysis done to know 100% what he gets from grazing, then making up the difference with supplements. 

Or is it finding a better food than top spec?

Great link too thanks!


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## PogoPumpkinBecky (12 March 2012)

I have a 3 year old who I am going to keep bare foot as he has very good feet. He has always been trimmed by our farrier and will start being ridden next month. Can a farrier trim a hoof for a horse to go fine without shoes, or do you need a barefoot trimmer? Really don't want to change as our farrier is brilliant.


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## LucyPriory (13 March 2012)

PogoPumpkinBecky said:



			I have a 3 year old who I am going to keep bare foot as he has very good feet. He has always been trimmed by our farrier and will start being ridden next month. Can a farrier trim a hoof for a horse to go fine without shoes, or do you need a barefoot trimmer? Really don't want to change as our farrier is brilliant.
		
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Ridden at 3?  I know it's very common practice, still doesn't make me think it's the best idea on the planet.


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## cptrayes (13 March 2012)

LucyPriory said:



			Ridden at 3?  I know it's very common practice, still doesn't make me think it's the best idea on the planet.
		
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I've always ridden my youngsters at three. I don't school circles or lunge or put them on a horsewalker, but I do hack them out. I think most people do break them at three and some turn away and some don't. I never did, but everyone I know backs and rides for at least a while at three.


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## cptrayes (13 March 2012)

Just to add, the two horses that I have had with spavin were both broken at four, one by me and one in Holland. None of the horses I have broken at three have ever had any soundness issues. A small sample, I know, but enough for me


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## Oberon (13 March 2012)

CobSunshine said:



			Thanks Oberon, 
When you say "Diet" do you mean in terms of weight loss or in terms of getting the macro nutrient % right?

Is that going as in depth as having grass field analysis done to know 100% what he gets from grazing, then making up the difference with supplements. 

Or is it finding a better food than top spec?

Great link too thanks!
		
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I'm meaning his hooves are telling me (from the pics) that there is something not 100% WITH his diet. Usual suspect is mineral balance.


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## CobSunshine (13 March 2012)

Oberon said:



			I'm meaning his hooves are telling me (from the pics) that there is something not 100% WITH his diet. Usual suspect is mineral balance.
		
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I weighed his happy hoof on some pin point accurate kitchen scales last weekend, and he's not been having enough kilo per day to give him all the nutrients. So hopefully with him having the 430 grams of Top Spec Balancer for his 430 kilo weight i'll see some benefits.


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## cptrayes (13 March 2012)

I have a friend whose horses went itchy on TopSpec, CS, and anecdotally there are a lot of barefoot horses that don't do well on it either.


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## AFlapjack (16 March 2012)

Would love some opinions of my boy, he has just had his shoes off 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=522585


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## abitodd (16 March 2012)

PogoPumpkinBecky said:



			I have a 3 year old who I am going to keep bare foot as he has very good feet. He has always been trimmed by our farrier and will start being ridden next month. Can a farrier trim a hoof for a horse to go fine without shoes, or do you need a barefoot trimmer? Really don't want to change as our farrier is brilliant.
		
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Farriers are more than able to trim hooves. Many are now taking natural feet seriously. The advantages of staying with your farrier are that some insurance companies get iffy about claims from the knee/hock down if the horse is not regularly attended by a person with a recognised qualification. (Sadly the powers that be have yet to recognise any bodies other than WCF)
And even if your farrier has yet to have much experience of working barefoot horses,at least the experience he/she has gathered in the 4 year apprenticeship stands you and your developing horse in good stead.

I would advise you to trawl the internet for all the advice and experience the 'barefoot taliban' have gathered. The foot trimming is only a small piece of the jigsaw!

Good luck and have fun with your youngster.


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## forestfantasy (28 March 2012)

I thought i'd update you all on Fantas feet, farrier has been today and she only needed a bit of a file and a little off her heel on the boxy foot.
She's going very well at the moment, not footy at all on all surfaces & moving like i've never felt her before.
The feet are still a little strange looking but she is sound so i'm just trying to come to terms with her weird feet at the moment!
I've started feeding Mag-Ox with the spring grass coming through so hoping that will help.
Any opinions/comments welcomed 

Before trim:
NF





















Before trim:
OF
































After a quick file!
NF







OF



























They still look very bizarre to me!


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## forestfantasy (28 March 2012)

Bump!


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## Oberon (28 March 2012)

How is she landing? Toe-first or heel-first?

Is she sound?

Is she working?


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## forestfantasy (28 March 2012)

Oberon said:



			How is she landing? Toe-first or heel-first?

Is she sound?

Is she working?
		
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Heel first landing on both, paces are a lot more extended and forward compared to before, we now have extended trot! 

She is sound as a pound on all surfaces including stoney tracks.

We hack out 4 days a week for approx. 1hr at a time, mainly roadwork


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## Oberon (28 March 2012)

Then fair enough

Her feet may well 'straighten up' in time but if she is sound....then just don't look at them 

Have I mentioned investigating the body to check for a cause of the boxy hooves?


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## forestfantasy (28 March 2012)

Oberon said:



			Then fair enough

Her feet may well 'straighten up' in time but if she is sound....then just don't look at them 

Have I mentioned investigating the body to check for a cause of the boxy hooves?
		
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Yes that has been mentioned to me - although the hoof was never boxy till she took a huge chunk of toe off as a 3yr old in the field on hard ground, the farrier explained that the hoof had gone boxy to protect/compensate the hoof.
It has gradually got better.
She also had a saddle that didn't fit well previously (didn't know this at the time) which meant one shoulder was muscled up and the other had wasted away due to the saddle being tight on that side (the same side as the boxy foot)
She now has a new saddle and the weak shoulder is building back up nicely so i hope this will help the foot.
She is due the back lady in the next month so i make sure it is mentioned.

Thanks again


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## nikkimariet (3 September 2012)

Hi everyone!!

How are all horses/ponies feet doing??

Thought I'd post an update on Fig - whose feet have changed quite a bit 

Here are our comparisons, top pics taken beginning of January, bottom pics taken this weekend....

Right fore











Right hind











Left fore











Left hind











I'm pretty chuffed - the soles are showing greater symmetry, he's grown out the bullnosing and his heels have expanded accordingly. 

My only niggle is the split that extends about 3mm upwards) on his right fore. This grew out a month ago, but has reappeared along with the crazy weather!!

He's rock crunching sound and working on rubber/sand surface, walk and trot hacks for 30 minutes on tarmac and tracks, and will happily work on grass.

So....what do we think?!


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## CBFan (4 September 2012)

Looking really good! Much improved


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## AFlapjack (4 September 2012)

Figgie's feet look fab 

I have kept a photo diary on here of Jack's hooves. Had his shoes off approx 6 months now! Time flies!! 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=522585


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## nikkimariet (4 September 2012)

Thanks CBFan  I just can't believe the difference in his heels and the texture of the soles!!!

AFJ - you must be chuffed to bits with those feet! Interesting you feed mag ox too; I give it to Fig but mainly as a calmer (very reactive to grass!!), but within a week his hooves were 'tidier' if that makes sense?


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## cptrayes (4 September 2012)

nikkimariet said:



			Hi everyone!!

How are all horses/ponies feet doing??

Thought I'd post an update on Fig - whose feet have changed quite a bit 



I'm pretty chuffed - the soles are showing greater symmetry, he's grown out the bullnosing and his heels have expanded accordingly. 

My only niggle is the split that extends about 3mm upwards) on his right fore. This grew out a month ago, but has reappeared along with the crazy weather!!

He's rock crunching sound and working on rubber/sand surface, walk and trot hacks for 30 minutes on tarmac and tracks, and will happily work on grass.

So....what do we think?!
		
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Nice job Nikki, but surely you know that TB's have naturally weak feet and can't do barefoot? Especially ex racers??


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## nikkimariet (4 September 2012)

cptrayes said:



			Nice job Nikki, but surely you know that TB's have naturally weak feet and can't do barefoot? Especially ex racers?? 

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The combination of rock hard little pony feet + oodles of mane and tail is starting to make me wonder if he has some Fell in there somewhere


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