# Livery yards being closed, banned from seeing our horses



## sarahann1 (24 March 2020)

Beyond upset/angry. We’re not even allowed to be at the fence line, let alone in the fields! Even for medical care! 


Anyone else in the same boat?


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## SEL (24 March 2020)

There are a few in the same position on the longer thread in Tack Room. It's at YO discretion so if they are doing it for safety reasons we need to respect that. It's really hard.


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## Aoife 2020 (24 March 2020)

I now people are upset/ angry but yards are doing it for everyone safety it will help save life’s.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (24 March 2020)

Ehm, as a YO myself (just a DIY one with only one livery, but still a YO), I personally would feel that is a little heavyhanded???

Yes I know this is an unprecedented issue - but I fail to see why the YO's concerned cannot issue "guidance" i.e. keeping safe space which might include "doing" your horses outside e.g. grooming etc rather than inside either a barn or stable, etc rather than issuing dictats that people should stay away??

But that's just me........


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## zaminda (24 March 2020)

We have gone to doing the horses in slots. My main herd share a field with a friend, but we both have one on the yard so have a spot each which means if necessary one of is can go twice a day. There are nearly 30  horses between our herd and the yard, so far too much for our poor farmer. We have several vulnerable people so are being incredibly careful. I would not be happy not being able to go, I would have moved mine to my mil short term if that was on the cards.


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## conniegirl (24 March 2020)

we have some pretty hefty guidance to follow if we want to go to the yard. I've got one who is just about to come off box rest having healed a tendon injury. I am working with vets to get him turned out as quickly and as safely as possible. That way if my yard owner does have to implement a full lock down (her and her infant daughter are in the high risk group as it is anyway) then horses can be chucked out and given hay and feed twice a day rather than her having to muck out and look after 35 horses on her own. 
If the full lockdown does come in before then hopefully the majority of horses can be chucked out and my yard owner will only have to deal with the special cases.
This evenings plan is to lightly sedate him and pop him out for an hour.


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## Midlifecrisis (24 March 2020)

Our yard has two spacious barns..individual tack/feed rooms and is DIY. We don’t share tools and almost naturally attend at different times. It was busier this morning than usual as a couple of mums have brought children but no one was in close contact or in a confined space. Admittedly I didn’t hang around...did my jobs..groomed the ponies and left...2 hours max...tonight will be check over feeds and leave and I don’t imagine many will be there. I can’t imagine the YO closing the place..she couldn’t provide full livery for all the horses.


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## Equine_Dream (24 March 2020)

Our yard has done something similar. The horses have all been turned all out 24/7 and we are not allowed on the yard save in exceptional circumstances (i.e. my lad is still coming off box rest so will need seeing to twice a day for the next week or two). 
My anxiety is through the roof about my other horses, but luckily there is a lane and footpath that runs behind our field so at least we can still check on them from there. 
It's going to be hard but we will get through this. Fingers crossed we will be able to enjoy some of the summer with our horses


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## vmac66 (24 March 2020)

My YO is a farmer, he couldn't possibly look after 40 horses. The yard has, stables built into old farm buildings so each block is self contained. YO has requested that we work out a, rota for each block so that everyone is not there at the, same time. That and we hace actually been given disinfectant spray for touch points such as field gates. Other then that it's all as usual obviously observing social distancing when we are there.


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## HBB (24 March 2020)

Two nearby diy yards have done this even though they are small spacious setups and their house's are quite some distance away. They have forced full livery on these clients and are charging an extortionate amount. I would be so disappointed if this is going to be a common occurrence and a chance to profiteer from this already horrendously stressful time.


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## poiuytrewq (24 March 2020)

My daughters livery yard are going to be given time slots they are allowed to visit. 
It’s closed today while all this is arranged but my daughters gone in this afternoon to help get the yard done as it’s a lot of horses for one y/o and they know she’s been working from home the last week at least. 
I think people just have to run with it. It’s going to be hard but remember a lot of these yards are also someone’s home.


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## be positive (24 March 2020)

HBB said:



			Two nearby diy yards have done this even though they are small spacious setups and their house's are quite some distance away. They have forced full livery on these clients and are charging an extortionate amount. I would be so disappointed if this is going to be a common occurrence and a chance to profiteer from this already horrendously stressful time.
		
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That is totally unfair, not the full livery part but the extortionate charges, I have a small yard and part liveries, they are now turned out so I can do full care, being prepared I have pared back on what they will need doing and will not charge more if anything does require extra for some reason, even if they come in on box rest, I will possibly be able to offer grass livery a bit later on for one or two extra if any owner ends up in difficulty, if moving is possible, profiteering from this does not sit well with me, we should all pull together.


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## Sussexbythesea (24 March 2020)

Thank god I’m on a yard where the owners are not closely involved. We’re all being sensible with distancing and hygiene and carrying on relatively normally.

I think people are focusing on the wrong risks personally.


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## ihatework (24 March 2020)

There is no point being angry, people are just trying to do what’s best in their own circumstances.

My young horse has already been turned away at the breaking yard. I haven’t been banned but will limit my access. Will probably take 1 exercise sessions week there to check him. YO is keeping a daily eye and haying.

The big horse is on competition livery. As of yesterday the yard was on full lockdown and I don’t have any access. He is currently being let down and provided this weather continues he will be turned away with some of the others next week.


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## Fransurrey (24 March 2020)

We're totally DIY with no-one living on site, but there aren't many liveries anyway and we do stagger times naturally. Most of us are on grass livery with our own storage, so it hasn't changed much, except we're careful to stay away from each other. We've made a book with all contact details and quirks of each horse just in case, but to be honest, we always help each other when someone is ill anyway, so aside from increased biosecurity, it's business as usual. YO doesn't have time to do horses - she's been ill herself and her OH is long term ill.


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## Coronaworried (24 March 2020)

We have also been forced onto full livery and banned from access. 

It is only a small yard and with two horses I can't afford it.  People are losing jobs due to coronavirus, can the full livery portion be challenged?? I don't have the option to move mine home, what will happen if I refuse to pay the extra?


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## Trinket12 (24 March 2020)

Mine is closed, lesson horses turned out. Sugar is rehabbing a check ligament injury, so my coach is walking her and dealing with vet visit's thankfully. But after going through the EHV-1 quarantine in January, 2020 is not my year so far!


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## SpringArising (24 March 2020)

We've also been banned from the yard and had full livery forced upon us. Not sure how I feel about it TBH. I'm just wondering what the people who can't afford full livery are going to do. I'm also concerned with how much weight my horse is going to pile on without being able to exercise him (not riding, just lunging and long lining).


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## ecb89 (24 March 2020)

I am already on full livery, all the horses at my yard are. The yard closed last night, no idea when I will see my horse again.
It’s horrible but it’s for the best.
I suffer with depression and seeing my horse makes me feel better


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## awelshandawarmblood (24 March 2020)

I think it absolutely out of order & morally wrong to enforce full livery on people!!! Especially at extortionate costs to make money out this difficult situation. Luckily my yard owner has the decency to allow us to sort it out amongst & be sensible - common sense!!


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## Annagain (24 March 2020)

We're carrying on as normal - smallish DIY yard and we're rarely all there at the same time. YO works for the NHS so is at risk anyway and house is a fair distance from the yard. We've always teamed up for turnout and bringing in anyway so half of us are there in the morning and half in the evening and usually at different times. I hardly ever see anyone up there anyway as I'm usually last up. We have sprays for gates and bolts etc and all have our own tools.


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## Daniel_Jack (24 March 2020)

I keep my horse at a small full livery yard so yo has decided to close the yard - her elderly parents live on the farm so she needs to protect them.

From a selfish perspective I'm gutted as I was just getting horse and I fit and  back riding again after having a baby but it's temporary and I 100% trust my yo to take care of my horse.


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## Honey08 (24 March 2020)

I think forcing full livery is a step too far.  Implementing some rules and changes to routines is acceptable.


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## criso (24 March 2020)

Ours it has the opposite end of the spectrum.  YM doing nothing, outside trainers visiting today and people would be going out to clinics if they could find them.  I'm keeping my distance.


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## Flicker (24 March 2020)

Our yard has enforced the same bio security measures we had in place during the strangled outbreak, but for people.


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## GoldenWillow (24 March 2020)

Although I am now not in a yard I was on a livery yard attached to a dairy farm during foot and mouth and the yard closed to all liverys with the yard owner doing all care. I respected their decision then and do understand livery yards owners who feel the need to do this. However our YO at the time did not charge the full livery cost, IIRC tyere was very little increase,  which made a huge difference and I think was very fair of them. This was a different situation though and the lockdown was to protect their herd and livelihood.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (24 March 2020)

My YO is leaving us to sort it all between ourselves - we are all distancing, keeping horses out as much as possible, and otherwise mostly stagger our visits naturally. We are trying to avoid sharing tools, and basically doing what we can within reason. 

I agree that it is a step too far to enforce full livery.


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## tiahatti (24 March 2020)

My mare is on retirement livery. They have said we can visit but they would rather we didn't go.


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## Expo (24 March 2020)

We are on rostered time slots to prevent too many people being there at once. My times are one hour, three days per week so not enough time to ride. Not sure how this fits with my other issues around dog walking (needed twice daily) and the requirement to only go out once per day for exercise!


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## Pippity (24 March 2020)

My yard is closed. People have the choice between paying for full livery and their horse staying in its usual routine,  or having their horse out 24/7, and yard staff will do a daily check and feed hay free of charge.

We're also allowed to see our horses in the field, no more than three times a week and no more than an hour at a time, and we have to co-ordinate so there's only one person at a time. We also have to go round by the farm track and duck under the fence, rather than using the gates.

Livery charges were due to go up at the end of the month, but that's been postponed indefinitely, so no profiteering! Just an at-risk woman, her two at-risk children, and her at-risk elderly parents, who all live on site, doing what they can to protect themselves.


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## [59668] (24 March 2020)

Not knowing how long it will be till I see her again has got me in pieces. Shes my soulmate. 
I know there is far worse going on, but that doesnt make this ok or bearable at the moment.


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## JJS (24 March 2020)

No changes at my yard so far and I don’t expect there to be, but it would be such a worry if this did happen. While I’m sure my two girls would be fine (though massively fat, so no doubt at risk of laminitis) by the end of it all, I honestly don’t think Sixpence could survive being thrown out 24/7 with no care.

At 27 and with PPID, he’s not only medicated daily, but has to be given three full buckets of various hay replacers every night, while still being out during the day to keep him supple. 

For a horse like him, it’s no exaggeration to say that chucking him out for goodness knows how long would be a death sentence, so I massively feel for anyone who finds themselves in such a position ☹️


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## ycbm (24 March 2020)

[59668] said:



			Not knowing how long it will be till I see her again has got me in pieces. Shes my soulmate. 
I know there is far worse going on, but that doesnt make this ok or bearable at the moment.
		
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Really feel for you, that would have torn me in pieces when I was at livery 

I swear I will never complain about any of the 'problems' with keeping horses at home ever again. 

.


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 March 2020)

My liveries come and go, a few are in London so in lock down, my liveries have a letter from me explaining why they are traveling here.

I would not close my yards if the livery's want to come, as I am a one man bandit and could not muck out and care for all mine and the l part livery and the diy.


24 hr out is impossible here  My livery owners are all being sensible


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## brightmount (24 March 2020)

My yard is closed to liveries. To say I was devastated was an understatement, as I was treating my horse daily for a field injury. I also don’t know if the vet will come back to remove the staples as they are only attending emergencies now. I’m not holding too much hope for the farrier either. My YO is looking after all the horses for no extra charge although mine was on full livery anyway.


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## Apercrumbie (24 March 2020)

Having witnessed the general public's perception of what social distancing looks like and the speed of transmission, I don't blame some YOs for taking matters into their own hands. Best of luck to all of you - it's going to be a tough few weeks.


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## Honey08 (24 March 2020)

That’s the thing - livery yards are someone’s home too.  Even if the house is not immediately on the yard.  It brings people to your house at a time when you need to keep people away.  So things can’t stay open without some changes.


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## eahotson (25 March 2020)

Our yard is a full full livery yard and we have been banned for three weeks.It is also the yard owners home and one of the yard owners is a very fit 80 year old but obviously more vulnerable.I think their decision is right for their staff who they are also trying to protect and of course, us.This virus is VERY serious.Remember that when this is all over your horse will need you alive and well.


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## wiglet (25 March 2020)

My full livery yard is closed, only the YO and staff allowed on yard. The YO does updated everyone every evening in the group chat and supplies photos of the horse so we can at least see them virtually.


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## SpringArising (25 March 2020)

Those on DIY/assisted/part etc. who have been told to not go to the yard - are you going to be charged full livery prices?


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## conniegirl (25 March 2020)

SpringArising said:



			Those on DIY/assisted/part etc. who have been told to not go to the yard - are you going to be charged full livery prices?
		
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my livery yard owner is great and realy appreciates the fact we are all living in uncertain times and our incomes may well be uncertain. she has said should it come to a full lockdown she won't be charging full livery but she would appreciate any extra if we can afford to pay.


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## Coronaworried (25 March 2020)

SpringArising said:



			Those on DIY/assisted/part etc. who have been told to not go to the yard - are you going to be charged full livery prices?
		
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Yes. I am disgusted to be frank.


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## SpringArising (25 March 2020)

Coronaworried said:



			Yes. I am disgusted to be frank.
		
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I know a few people in the same boat and I think it's terrible, especially as there are ways around it.


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## awelshandawarmblood (25 March 2020)

conniegirl said:



			my livery yard owner is great and realy appreciates the fact we are all living in uncertain times and our incomes may well be uncertain. she has said should it come to a full lockdown she won't be charging full livery but she would appreciate any extra if we can afford to pay.
		
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That's really good & also nice to see some common sense & humanity applied
I'm DIY & our yard owner has said she'll help if required but just leaving it to us (only small yard of about 10 owners) to sort out & be sensible, which we are.


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## Red-1 (25 March 2020)

On the flip side, I had a wisdom tooth out yesterday and feel pretty low. Every time I move about it starts to bleed again. Mine live at home and Mr Red is having to step in.

Goodness know how we will cope if we both cop for Corona simultaneously. We do have helpful neighbours and they would only have to throw hay and top water.


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## hopscotch bandit (25 March 2020)

conniegirl said:



			we have some pretty hefty guidance to follow if we want to go to the yard. I've got one who is just about to come off box rest having healed a tendon injury. I am working with vets to get him turned out as quickly and as safely as possible. That way if my yard owner does have to implement a full lock down (her and her infant daughter are in the high risk group as it is anyway) then horses can be chucked out and given hay and feed twice a day rather than her having to muck out and look after 35 horses on her own.
If the full lockdown does come in before then hopefully the majority of horses can be chucked out and my yard owner will only have to deal with the special cases.
This evenings plan is to lightly sedate him and pop him out for an hour.
		
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That's what I'm currently doing with mine as she has been on box rest for 3 months with a ligament injury.  However coupled with that is the problem that she's very colic prone, has had in the past numerous colic episodes and 2 splenic entrapments/left dorsal displacements and I worry about increasing her paddock size quickly enough for her to cope with being out 24/7 if the need arises, quite frankly I think I'm pushing my luck on day 5 with a paddock this size to be honest.


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## Frumpoon (25 March 2020)

We are banned from seeing our horses too!! I have absolutely no confidence that good care will be given and was due to leave this weekend coming

To say I'm furious is an understatement!! Nobody lives at my yard so that not an excuse and the BHS guidance is being bandied about as thought it says a load of things that it doesn't 

Stopping people attending to their own horses is not going to slow the transmission of a virus


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## SpringArising (25 March 2020)

conniegirl said:



			my livery yard owner is great and realy appreciates the fact we are all living in uncertain times and our incomes may well be uncertain. she has said should it come to a full lockdown she won't be charging full livery but she would appreciate any extra if we can afford to pay.
		
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Mine's given us a like it or lump it message!


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## conniegirl (25 March 2020)

hopscotch bandit said:



			That's what I'm currently doing with mine as she has been on box rest for 3 months with a ligament injury.  However coupled with that is the problem that she's very colic prone, has had in the past numerous colic episodes and 2 splenic entrapments/left dorsal displacements and I worry about increasing her paddock size quickly enough for her to cope with being out 24/7 if the need arises, quite frankly I think I'm pushing my luck on day 5 with a paddock this size to be honest.

View attachment 42774

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why the big green blobs?
Mine has had 6 months boxrest near enough.
This is my lad at 4pm today after 2ml sedalin this morning, will have worn off now though as he has been out all day as YO been about all day and will bring him in if he is stupid



that is technically my yard owners front lawn! She has been so brilliant about this, the lawn was the lushest grass within sight of other horses, hoping to play to his native pony stomach and have him too busy stuffing his face to worry about being an idiot!


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## sport horse (25 March 2020)

brightmount said:



			My yard is closed to liveries. To say I was devastated was an understatement, as I was treating my horse daily for a field injury. I also don’t know if the vet will come back to remove the staples as they are only attending emergencies now. I’m not holding too much hope for the farrier either. My YO is looking after all the horses for no extra charge although mine was on full livery anyway.
		
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I am sure your vet will come to remove staples - they cannot be left in so that is an emergency.  Farriers are still working but they are asking people to keep their distance from them and to try to reduce the need for too many calls by making shoes/trims on a slightly longer interval if possible.  Vets and farriers need protecting form C too.


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## poiuytrewq (25 March 2020)

ycbm said:



			Really feel for you, that would have torn me in pieces when I was at livery 

I swear I will never complain about any of the 'problems' with keeping horses at home ever again.

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I’d agree with this. Horses keep
Us sane in rough times and if someone said I couldn’t see mine I think I’d crack up.


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## Coronaworried (25 March 2020)

poiuytrewq said:



			I’d agree with this. Horses keep
Us sane in rough times and if someone said I couldn’t see mine I think I’d crack up.
		
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I think I will have cracked up by the end of it. Mental health declining rapidly 😔


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## poiuytrewq (25 March 2020)

Coronaworried said:



			I think I will have cracked up by the end of it. Mental health declining rapidly 😔
		
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What’s your situation? Are you isolating?


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## SO1 (25 March 2020)

We are allowed to go the yard for max 45 minutes a day, most are on part livery so not many people actually need to go to the yard as daily care is covered. Most are staying away at the moment but it is early days and three weeks is a long time to go without seeing your horse, my concern is that it will be a lot longer than three weeks - China has had over two months of lockdown and only just opening up.

I can understand why people are scared after what is happening in Spain and Italy and want to protect themselves and not have people on their premises if possible. I am desperate to see my pony but at the same time I want to respect the social distancing requirement put in place to protect others especially if more younger people start passing away as that might mean we all need to shield ourselves for 12 weeks.


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## Coronaworried (25 March 2020)

poiuytrewq said:



			What’s your situation? Are you isolating?
		
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No.. We are banned from our yard for the full lockdown period... And are having full livery fees enforced upon us for the privilege!


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## cindars (25 March 2020)

Only 3 on our yard which is day.  One lady off games with ski ing injury horses out and I go up once a  day it's my exercise.


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## Summit (25 March 2020)

Only 3 at my yard too so easy to manage


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## leflynn (26 March 2020)

On full livery yard (large 46 stabled horses ish) and ours is closed, although i hate it it needs to be done as its none essential travel to go and see/ride our horses.  YO also have an elderly vulnerable relative that lives on site.  I know he'll be very well looked after so it'll be interesting to see who is most bored and fat by the end of this lol! (horse for boredom me for fat)


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## Honey08 (26 March 2020)

I feel like banning my liveries today!!

Yesterday I gave everyone a sheet of new hygiene rules asking people to come at different times where poss, stay apart as much as piss and avoid staying at the yard longer than they have to etc.  I’m doing extra to regularly sanitise the bits of the yard we all touch.  Yet today they’ve come at the same time (despite being off work), mucked out together, had a coffee and gone out for a hack together.  Not the slightest effort made whatsoever.  I’m really upset.


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## ihatework (26 March 2020)

Honey08 said:



			I feel like banning my liveries today!!

Yesterday I gave everyone a sheet of new hygiene rules asking people to come at different times where poss, stay apart as much as piss and avoid staying at the yard longer than they have to etc.  I’m doing extra to regularly sanitise the bits of the yard we all touch.  Yet today they’ve come at the same time (despite being off work), mucked out together, had a coffee and gone out for a hack together.  Not the slightest effort made whatsoever.  I’m really upset.
		
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If it were my yard they would be banned from this point forward and it’s tough luck if they have full livery enforced upon them. Idiots.


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## hopscotch bandit (26 March 2020)

We are on 1 hour only visit per horse per day all at different times.  Its a real struggle as I'm trying to still rehab my horse and ultrasound takes 10 mins of my valuable time, icing isn't so bad as I just leave the ice vibe boot on, and then I have to walk her after ultrasound, only down the yard and back but its still time, something about aligning tendon fibres.  I have her on assisted DIy and they are still doing my stable for me, so I am very lucky for that - it is skip out, so when I get there I am doing a full muck out down to the floor as I always have, plus icing leg, bandaging, changing rugs, preparing and feeding, water, picking out feet and applying iodeine solution.

I am grateful we are still allowed up as I want to get my horse as well as I can with her injury whilst I have the chance so that I am actually able to ride her again.  And also trying to get her paddock as big as I feasibly can as she is strip grazed every day.  I need to do that as quick as I can without her getting colic from the additional grazing space.

I'm grateful to the YO for letting us still go up, but when I've been at work all day, I practically have to drive like a mad woman to get to the yard to make my hour slot as even though there is hardly any traffic all I seem to be stuck behind is buses going at 20mph  or tractors and other vechicles mooching along the lanes. When I get there I get changed and zoom in and do all my jobs, I feel I don't even have time for a cuddle anymore and its affecting my mental health big time, I keep bursting into tears, it has really upset me as I feel so frazzled, my stomach is in turmoil, I get home and have an upset stomach with the stress of it all and just cry and cry.  I'm not sure where the 'hour' regulation has come from, an hour and a half would be more reasonable for everyone.  Feel sorry for those that are buddying up and doing two although they get an extra hour.  We have a really good staff team of about four plus YO and they are not allowed to ride even though they are there all day.

But I would do anything to keep seeing my horse so I will keep perservering as long as my mental health will let me and as long as we are allowed.


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## be positive (26 March 2020)

Honey08 said:



			I feel like banning my liveries today!!

Yesterday I gave everyone a sheet of new hygiene rules asking people to come at different times where poss, stay apart as much as piss and avoid staying at the yard longer than they have to etc.  I’m doing extra to regularly sanitise the bits of the yard we all touch.  Yet today they’ve come at the same time (despite being off work), mucked out together, had a coffee and gone out for a hack together.  Not the slightest effort made whatsoever.  I’m really upset.
		
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Total idiots and unfair on you, mine are now on full care, not an issue as they are now out so just a feed, rug change and water check, I am allowing them to come and ride in the school as long as I know when they are coming/leaving and they follow hygiene rules, if they showed such a lack of respect they would not be coming at all.


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## hopscotch bandit (26 March 2020)

Honey08 said:



			I feel like banning my liveries today!!

Yesterday I gave everyone a sheet of new hygiene rules asking people to come at different times where poss, stay apart as much as piss and avoid staying at the yard longer than they have to etc.  I’m doing extra to regularly sanitise the bits of the yard we all touch.  Yet today they’ve come at the same time (despite being off work), mucked out together, had a coffee and gone out for a hack together.  Not the slightest effort made whatsoever.  I’m really upset.
		
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They should be asked to leave.  I try and stay well back from everyone, and I cover my hands with sanitiser that I keep in my car.  We have been asked not to all sit in the tea room together although I need to pop in to go to the loo and get my ice pack from the freezer.  I wipe the key pad after I've used it too on the way in and out.


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## ester (26 March 2020)

That's appalling honey


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## Dyllymoo (26 March 2020)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels lost and upset.  My yard is full DIY with 6 horses.  YO has tried to implement AM and PM people visiting once, but this isn't really working as 2 people work shifts which are changing daily.  I am back at work and so need to go up PM (if only once a day) due to J's hay etc. so I am going up around 6pm to avoid everyone (as I am a risk as I am still going to work).

I was heartbroken last night.  I know it sounds pathetic in the grand scheme of things but routine is massive for me, and looking after J myself is a big thing.  He will only be turned out and brought in by different people and I will be doing everything in the evening but its still so hard.

That said I completely get why it is being done, and I really feel for YO's whose liveries are carrying on as normal.  We wont have this freedom soon and at some point they will end up having to do a complete lock down which will be even more stressful and for longer.  Our YO has said if we cant stick to these rules she will lock the yard down for 3 weeks minimum and she will do full livery.  I cant afford it but it is what it is.


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## criso (26 March 2020)

One of the liveries where my horse is just posted in Facebook video of her lesson with an outside instructor.  Horse isn't hers, it's the yard manager's.


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## be positive (26 March 2020)

criso said:



			One of the liveries where my horse is just posted in Facebook video of her lesson with an outside instructor.  Horse isn't hers, it's the yard manager's.
		
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So what part of the sentence 'essential travel only' is not being understood by the 3 people involved?


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## Lindylouanne (26 March 2020)

There are only three of us on the yard and two of them are so joined at the hip they can’t function singularly. No social distancing whatsoever, one picks the other up which is just ridiculous as she lives within a three minute walk from the yard and as there’s a two on the yard rule at any one time I am trying to keep my distance. I have purposely put my two on opposite turnout to theirs so I am going up earlier to get them in and later in the evening to muck out and am trying to avoid them at all cost. My Farrier was down this morning so I kept my distance and he didn’t get a coffee. (He understood why) Their Farrier is down at lunchtime so there will be 4 of them on the yard and given they were discussing who was bringing the milk tea and biscuits will be handed out.

I just despair of some people they just don’t fecking get it.


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## indie1282 (26 March 2020)

Honey08 said:



			I feel like banning my liveries today!!

Yesterday I gave everyone a sheet of new hygiene rules asking people to come at different times where poss, stay apart as much as piss and avoid staying at the yard longer than they have to etc.  I’m doing extra to regularly sanitise the bits of the yard we all touch.  Yet today they’ve come at the same time (despite being off work), mucked out together, had a coffee and gone out for a hack together.  Not the slightest effort made whatsoever.  I’m really upset.
		
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You are the YO and they must abide by your rules. Take the kettle away and lock the tack/feedroom up. Put a BIG notice on the door saying that only one person is to be on the yard at any one time and they can either sort times between them or you will allocate time slots to them. 

Failure to comply will mean that the yard is closed and they will NOT be able to visit.


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## Elf On A Shelf (26 March 2020)

I am so glad I have my lot at home! 

I do feel for those of you who can't go and see to your horses but it is a short term problem in the grand scheme of life. Hopefully.


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## Honey08 (26 March 2020)

indie1282 said:



			You are the YO and they must abide by your rules. Take the kettle away and lock the tack/feedroom up. Put a BIG notice on the door saying that only one person is to be on the yard at any one time and they can either sort times between them or you will allocate time slots to them.

Failure to comply will mean that the yard is closed and they will NOT be able to visit.
		
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There never was a kettle.  People bring flasks.  We are now  doing allocated slots.


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## Coronaworried (26 March 2020)

Elf On A Shelf said:



			I am so glad I have my lot at home!

I do feel for those of you who can't go and see to your horses but it is a short term problem in the grand scheme of life. Hopefully.
		
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Well yes, hopefully. However it's easy to think positively if you are lucky enough to still be able to see your horses. 

For those that can't, and without any sort of confirmed end date, it is causing great anguish and that shouldn't be diminished, particularly where there are existing mental health issues. For many, their horses are a source of great help and comfort, from which they are now blocked.


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## Goldenstar (26 March 2020)

I have never ever been so grateful felt so privileged that I have mine at home .
Its the only thing in life that ever I really really wanted I am so so lucky .


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## Frumpoon (26 March 2020)

Honey08 said:



			I feel like banning my liveries today!!

Yesterday I gave everyone a sheet of new hygiene rules asking people to come at different times where poss, stay apart as much as piss and avoid staying at the yard longer than they have to etc.  I’m doing extra to regularly sanitise the bits of the yard we all touch.  Yet today they’ve come at the same time (despite being off work), mucked out together, had a coffee and gone out for a hack together.  Not the slightest effort made whatsoever.  I’m really upset.
		
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Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest? 

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what? 

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence


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## SO1 (26 March 2020)

It is incredibly difficult I am not banned from the yard but I have to travel on public transport which is still running but with being asked to only do essential journey's on public transport I don't think I can really justify going to the yard.

Three weeks will be struggle not to see my pony but there is now some mention of the lockdown being for 6 months which would be incredibly difficult for those of us who could not see our horses until the lockdown is lifted. I live on my own so not only will I not be able to see my horse until the lockdown is lifted I won't be able to interact socially with anyone until it lifted I will only be able to talk on the phone. 6 months without any proper interaction with a living being either animal or human is going to be mentally very challenging.


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## blitznbobs (26 March 2020)

Goldenstar said:



			I have never ever been so grateful felt so privileged that I have mine at home .
Its the only thing in life that ever I really really wanted I am so so lucky .
		
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I had mine at livery - for my convenience tbh - and snatched them home when I knew this was coming... I’m so glad I did... and recognise how lucky I am that I could - they are my sanity atm... stuck at home with 2 kids one of which is on the autistic spectrum, I actually look forward to mucking out... its such a previlege and I know I will never take it for granted again.


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## Apercrumbie (26 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest?

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what?

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence
		
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If yard becomes a covid hotbed because of ridiculous practices by the liveries, of course it affects the YO - the YO could get it! and then pass it on to who knows who. FFS it's precisely this attitude that has resulted in this situation.


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## Frumpoon (26 March 2020)

Can you explain what you mean by a covid hotbed?


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## indie1282 (26 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest?

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what?

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence
		
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Ffs really?! Because OP doesn't want to potentially catch the virus by touching things that haven't been properly sanitised.

Plus they have to abide by the yard rules - regardless of if they like it or not.


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## indie1282 (26 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Can you explain what you mean by a covid hotbed?
		
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Really???

You are aware of how a virus spreads?


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## Apercrumbie (26 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Can you explain what you mean by a covid hotbed?
		
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Multiple people at the yard getting coronavirus, whether they know it or not. They then go and pass it on to their family members, people they encounter etc. This is literally how the virus is being spread.


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## JJS (26 March 2020)

SO1 said:



			It is incredibly difficult I am not banned from the yard but I have to travel on public transport which is still running but with being asked to only do essential journey's on public transport I don't think I can really justify going to the yard.

Three weeks will be struggle not to see my pony but there is now some mention of the lockdown being for 6 months which would be incredibly difficult for those of us who could not see our horses until the lockdown is lifted. I live on my own so not only will I not be able to see my horse until the lockdown is lifted I won't be able to interact socially with anyone until it lifted I will only be able to talk on the phone. 6 months without any proper interaction with a living being either animal or human is going to be mentally very challenging.
		
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It’s not just their horses that some people will be cut off from. My long-term boyfriend has gone home to Glasgow to isolate (he usually lives 20 minutes away from me in West Yorkshire), but as we don’t live together, we thought it would be better for him to go to his family home rather than isolating with housemates who he doesn’t have an overly close relationship with. If this carries on for six months, that’s six months until I’ll see him again, and I’m sure I’m not the only one in this position. Thank God I can at least continue to see my horses, or I don’t know what I’d do! I really do feel sorry for anyone cut off from their loved ones right now, horse or human.


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## ILuvCowparsely (27 March 2020)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Ehm, as a YO myself (just a DIY one with only one livery, but still a YO), I personally would feel that is a little heavyhanded???

Yes I know this is an unprecedented issue - but I fail to see why the YO's concerned cannot issue "guidance" i.e. keeping safe space which might include "doing" your horses outside e.g. grooming etc rather than inside either a barn or stable, etc rather than issuing dictats that people should stay away??

But that's just me........
		
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Me too, Yard Owner small ish yard
5 part livery 4 diy and 3 + .2 horses of my owner,  One owner living in common room to help me out, daughter  coming 1 a week, diy carry letter from em and we have the 2 m rule. Still coming up for their horses


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## meleeka (27 March 2020)

This post has made me realise things could be worse for me.  I really feel for anyone who isn’t going to be able to see their horse.  It’s not something I’d cope with very well.


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## ihatework (27 March 2020)

Well I got a lovely video yesterday of my young horse playing with his herd, made my day. He is going to be completely ferel at the end of this, he is a twat at the best of times 😂


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## Frumpoon (27 March 2020)

indie1282 said:



			Really???

You are aware of how a virus spreads?
		
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I am thanks yeah

The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them


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## Shay (27 March 2020)

I'm lucky that my yard is still open and all the liveries are adults (not always chronologically - I mean in behaviour terms...) who can behave decently.  I can reach the yard on foot or by bike if I have to so no problem with getting to / from.  But I do wonder how many yards who have banned their liveries and are now doing the horses themsleves will start to think twice when this is extended to 6 weeks, or 9 or 12?


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## ycbm (27 March 2020)

Goldenstar said:



			I have never ever been so grateful felt so privileged that I have mine at home .
Its the only thing in life that ever I really really wanted I am so so lucky .
		
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Ditto. I'm never going to complain about how difficult it is to get cover if I want to go away, ever again. 

Huge sympathies for everyone locked away from loved ones, too. 

.


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## Jill's Gym Karma (27 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			I am thanks yeah

The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them
		
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They may not know precisely, but they have a fair idea based on past studies. Non-essential interaction needs to stop. It's not essential for people to have coffee together when rotas can be sorted. It's sticking two fingers up to those who are properly isolating, and to those on the frontline in healthcare.


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## southerncomfort (27 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			I am thanks yeah

The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them
		
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The point is it's her yard and if she wishes to put stringent measures in place to prevent the spread of the virus then she is is entitled to do so.

For the liveries to dismiss the rules she has put in place and do as they please, is blatantly rude and dismissive towards the yard owner who is trying to keep them all safe.

I wouldn't want liveries like that TBH.


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## paddy555 (27 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			I am thanks yeah

The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them
		
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are you for real? people are dying from this and NHS staff are put at risk each time they go to work. Perhaps you are one of the people not taking suitable precautions and are therefore at risk of spreading it. Or perhaps getting it yourself!  

Perhaps we should just all carry on as normal and idc the scientists will work it all out and come up with a consensus then we could consider isolation if that is what they advise. 

As for livery yard owners, their yard, their health and their rules which is very sad for some of their owners in a lockdown.


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## Expo (27 March 2020)

Not read the whole thread, but like many others we are one hour time slots to visit, working round YM and staff who go first thing and then pm to bring in etc. All ours are full or part livery: no DIYs so easier to manage.

Could someone please clarify whether a one hour visit to yard counts as my daily “outing” or is it an extra, deemed essential to look after livestock? I also have dogs to walk and can’t take them to the yard with me, and hubby is currently crippled with a bad back so no help with any animal care. I’m confused but trying to do the right thing.


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## Auslander (27 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence
		
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It most certainly isn't! I ask people to respect my wishes/follow my rules when they are on my property, and I am more than prepared to lay down the law if it ever becomes necessary. This means that my yard is a nice place, with contented horses and happy owners. My liveries are carefully chosen, so we rarely have any conflict, and the couple of bad apples I've had over the years have been asked to leave pronto.
If people think its ok to completely disregard a perfectly reasonable request from the owner of the property, particularly when it relates to biosecurity during a global pandemic, then they are not people that would be welcome to remain on my yard


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## Upthecreek (27 March 2020)

Replying to Expo: This hasn’t been made completely clear but my understanding is that if your horse in on full livery, therefore it’s basic care is being provided by the yard, you shouldn’t be going there at all. It is only deemed essential travel if it is necessary for you to go to the yard because you are the one providing the essential care (feeding, rugging etc). 

Regarding the permitted once a day exercise this should be done from your home (as in you shouldn’t be driving somewhere to take the exercise).


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## Expo (27 March 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			Replying to Expo: This hasn’t been made completely clear but my understanding is that if your horse in on full livery, therefore it’s basic care is being provided by the yard, you shouldn’t be going there at all. It is only deemed essential travel if it is necessary for you to go to the yard because you are the one providing the essential care (feeding, rugging etc).

Regarding the permitted once a day exercise this should be done from your home (as in you shouldn’t be driving somewhere to take the exercise).

View attachment 42872

Click to expand...

Yes, thank you. I thought as much. My boy is on full livery and the YM is taking good care of him, but she has put in place slots to give us all a bit of pony time. With regards to going out, yes, I'm walking doggy once a day from home and we are very lucky to have some open access heathland and woods very close by so I can walk there, let the dog have a good run and never see a soul. I appreciate that not everyone is so fortunate. I do know folks, though, who are going out for their daily exercise and are also going to their horses, classing the horse visit as "essential" even though it's on full livery. I guess making a set of "one size fits all" rules under these circumstances is just about impossible and everyone is just looking for a way to make the restrictions work, whilst staying within them. The YM is simply trying to do her best, but needs to accommodate the needs of the part liveries who do their own mucking out. This means the full liveries are effectively blocked from seeing their horses, which seems a bit as if we are being penalised somehow. <<sigh>> ... not whinging, just trying to do my best like everyone.

Our local police are also using similar notices to these. 

Maybe the answer is for the yard to lift to "no dogs" embargo whilst the crisis continues. Then we could do a dog walk and pony visit all in one.


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## MagicMelon (27 March 2020)

Surely if you don't like the rules the YO has set up you should look elsewhere to find a yard that does let you see your horse?  Or even a field to rent?


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## Coronaworried (27 March 2020)

MagicMelon said:



			Surely if you don't like the rules the YO has set up you should look elsewhere to find a yard that does let you see your horse?  Or even a field to rent?
		
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Difficult when moving is currently restricted by lockdown, and other yard owners probably don't want new people moving in at the moment.


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## MissTyc (27 March 2020)

I am fortunate that I can combine my exercise, the dog walk, and the horse care into a single route on foot from the house, so I get everything done all at once. 

On my yard we've agreed to no riding (we don't have an arena and anyway it's against the spirit of a lock down as it encourages people to hang around on yard for longer than essential), we have set visiting windows to minimise presence on the yard to a max of 8 people at a time - this is the number of people we believe can safely be one site socially distanced. We have locked away the coffee machine.  

On the way home this morning at 7am, I ran into an old acquaintance who also runs a livery yard. He told me he got two new liveries moved in YESTERDAY because their "stupid YO" had banned riding ... then told me his 12yo daughter was still training at 120m because her horse is "psycho" and would "kill himself" if not exercised daily ... This person also happens to work for a major supermarket.  Exposure, exposure, exposure. And we're surprised this thing is spreading?

Until that moment, I broadly thought most people were on the same page here, but apparently not.  

My reactive dog is getting more reactive. My fat cob is obviously at risk from spring grass, my sports horses are getting "excitable" but I've turned everything away because I genuinely believe this could be our best, and maybe only, chance of slowing this thing down.

No one is immune from the virus or from an accident. If people try to find ways to circumvent the spirit of the rules, then we will simply get locked down tighter by the government.


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## Honey08 (27 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest?

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what?

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence
		
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Ppp

Are you for real??  When the “space” they rent from me is in my home where my elderly parents live it does affect me!  What’s the point of me and my family trying to isolate when people coming to the yard aren’t?


Frumpoon said:



			Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest?

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what?

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence
		
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No.  The “space” rented is also where I live.  If people are not isolating themselves and being sensible I don’t want them around.  I’m using the yard myself and looking after elderly, high risk parents.  Plus it’s hugely disrespectful to ignore rules put in place to help us all.  I have gone out of my way to help - turning out/feeding at weekends (which isn’t included usually), trying to work out what to turn out where to make things easier etc and I’m asking for a few things in return (like coming at different times).  They’re not normal rules, they’re just in place while the country is under lockdown.  Unfortunately times have temporarily changed and you can’t spend all day at your yard playing with your horse unless it’s at your home.


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## indie1282 (27 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			I am thanks yeah

The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them
		
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Well...the fact that the whole world has been asked to self isolate and self distance so we are not be in contact with other people, that we are all asked to disinfect like crazy and the message from the government is that the virus doesn't spread on it's own it's people that spread it tells me that they have a fair inclination of how this virus spreads..

I think most people understand that....oh, apart from you clearly...


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## Frumpoon (27 March 2020)

paddy555 said:



			are you for real? people are dying from this and NHS staff are put at risk each time they go to work. Perhaps you are one of the people not taking suitable precautions and are therefore at risk of spreading it. Or perhaps getting it yourself! 

Perhaps we should just all carry on as normal and idc the scientists will work it all out and come up with a consensus then we could consider isolation if that is what they advise.

As for livery yard owners, their yard, their health and their rules which is very sad for some of their owners in a lockdown.
		
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Or maybe I'm one of the people working for the NHS


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## SpringArising (27 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Or maybe I'm one of the people working for the NHS
		
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I think it's quite clear from your apparent lack of intellect that you don't.


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## Errin Paddywack (27 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Or maybe I'm one of the people working for the NHS
		
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If you were you would know better and would be bricking it like the rest of us who live in the real world. With the amount of people dying every day you should be ashamed of yourself.


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## Goldenstar (27 March 2020)

It’s very hard for people who can’t see their horses .
but Yoers have the right to do this and it’s the best thing to do in my view .


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## Amymay (27 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			I am thanks yeah

The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them
		
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That is the attitude that could see 8 million people world wide die.

And, yes, virologists seem to have a pretty good handle on how the virus is spread.


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## honetpot (27 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Can you explain what you mean by a covid hotbed?
		
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 I think you not get it. So everyone decides they don't care if they are at higher risk and its spreads amoung them. As you do not know if you have the virus but can infect other people, you then go on to infect who do not mind the higher risk or do, and so it continues.
  Now you may be happy to take the risk, you may think I am young, I am healthy, so I won't get it that bad, but what about the ones that do, and time and resources it will take to treat them. So its not about you and the risk you are happy to take,its the people you infect that infect someone else. 
  If you work in the NHS, I would love to know where because I will screen shot your posts and forward them to the relevant Trust and see what they think of your remarks. I suggest you educate yourself.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-21/coronavirus-why-social-distancing-works/


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## flying_high (27 March 2020)

Expo said:



			Yes, thank you. I thought as much. My boy is on full livery and the YM is taking good care of him, but she has put in place slots to give us all a bit of pony time. With regards to going out, yes, I'm walking doggy once a day from home and we are very lucky to have some open access heathland and woods very close by so I can walk there, let the dog have a good run and never see a soul. I appreciate that not everyone is so fortunate. I do know folks, though, who are going out for their daily exercise and are also going to their horses, classing the horse visit as "essential" even though it's on full livery. I guess making a set of "one size fits all" rules under these circumstances is just about impossible and everyone is just looking for a way to make the restrictions work, whilst staying within them. The YM is simply trying to do her best, but needs to accommodate the needs of the part liveries who do their own mucking out. This means the full liveries are effectively blocked from seeing their horses, which seems a bit as if we are being penalised somehow. <<sigh>> ... not whinging, just trying to do my best like everyone.

Our local police are also using similar notices to these.

Maybe the answer is for the yard to lift to "no dogs" embargo whilst the crisis continues. Then we could do a dog walk and pony visit all in one.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what anyone else is doing is relevant. 

Morally we all should follow the spirit of the Government guidelines. 

If you yard owner provides all basic essential care to your horse, you should not going to the yard at the moment. 

You should not be driving (other than for reasons on the list which visiting yard when a full livery, exercising yourself or dogs isn't one of them). 

You should be exercising yourself and your dogs from home.


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## Firefly9410 (27 March 2020)

Coronaworried said:



			We have also been forced onto full livery and banned from access.

It is only a small yard and with two horses I can't afford it.  People are losing jobs due to coronavirus, can the full livery portion be challenged?? I don't have the option to move mine home, what will happen if I refuse to pay the extra?
		
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You do not have a contract with your yard owner for full livery.  They would have to take you to court to make you pay I think.  With no contract I think they would not have a leg to stand on because it is them who decided to go to full livery.  Not an easy position to be in it is no wonder you are upset about it.


hopscotch bandit said:



			We are on 1 hour only visit per horse per day all at different times.  Its a real struggle as I'm trying to still rehab my horse and ultrasound takes 10 mins of my valuable time, icing isn't so bad as I just leave the ice vibe boot on, and then I have to walk her after ultrasound, only down the yard and back but its still time, something about aligning tendon fibres.  I have her on assisted DIy and they are still doing my stable for me, so I am very lucky for that - it is skip out, so when I get there I am doing a full muck out down to the floor as I always have, plus icing leg, bandaging, changing rugs, preparing and feeding, water, picking out feet and applying iodeine solution.

I am grateful we are still allowed up as I want to get my horse as well as I can with her injury whilst I have the chance so that I am actually able to ride her again.  And also trying to get her paddock as big as I feasibly can as she is strip grazed every day.  I need to do that as quick as I can without her getting colic from the additional grazing space.

I'm grateful to the YO for letting us still go up, but when I've been at work all day, I practically have to drive like a mad woman to get to the yard to make my hour slot as even though there is hardly any traffic all I seem to be stuck behind is buses going at 20mph  or tractors and other vechicles mooching along the lanes. When I get there I get changed and zoom in and do all my jobs, I feel I don't even have time for a cuddle anymore and its affecting my mental health big time, I keep bursting into tears, it has really upset me as I feel so frazzled, my stomach is in turmoil, I get home and have an upset stomach with the stress of it all and just cry and cry.  I'm not sure where the 'hour' regulation has come from, an hour and a half would be more reasonable for everyone.  Feel sorry for those that are buddying up and doing two although they get an extra hour.  We have a really good staff team of about four plus YO and they are not allowed to ride even though they are there all day.

But I would do anything to keep seeing my horse so I will keep perservering as long as my mental health will let me and as long as we are allowed.
		
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In your situation I would start a deep litter bed so all you have to do in the evenings is a quick skip out and add fresh bedding freeing up more time for the other things you need to do there.  You sound really stressed out so I think you should do this for your health even if it is not the best for the horse.

I am lucky my yard has no new measures and I have a stable away from others just by chance so I am isolated even if other people are there.  Does anybody know if we as a country go to total lockdown will the vets PTS if the horse owner requests it for the ones who will almost certainly not survive without daily care for example horses with long term medical problems kept on yards without full livery options or would people be expected to turn out hope for the best and whatever happens happens?  It is a horrible thought I know.  I worry for the horses who might end up in this situation.


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## ecb89 (27 March 2020)

Goldenstar said:



			It’s very hard for people who can’t see their horses .
but Yoers have the right to do this and it’s the best thing to do in my view .
		
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It is really hard, and it’s not good for my mental health, even though I know it’s right.

Its even harder when I see the elderly out and about. I am being separated from my horse to help protect those who are vulnerable and some of those don’t seem to give a damn


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## SpringArising (27 March 2020)

ecb89 said:



			It is really hard, and it’s not good for my mental health, even though I know it’s right.

Its even harder when I see the elderly out and about. I am being separated from my horse to help protect those who are vulnerable and some of those don’t seem to give a damn
		
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I would imagine that not every single old person has someone to care for them during this, or fully understands or knows what's happening, or how to get the help they need.


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## Ricotta (27 March 2020)

People who their medical team think have less than 6 months to live have been advised that 12 weeks shielding at home is optional.  They may be out and about under the same restrictions as anyone else. They may be facing far harsher outcomes than a few weeks away from riding their horse.


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## Winters100 (28 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest?

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what?

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence
		
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Do you seriously not understand this at all?  I am shocked.

*What we all do now affects society as a whole - ALL of us. * If people do not act responsibly then this goes on longer. Do you not understand this? And what makes you think that keeping 2m apart is safe? It is NOT.  It is just a guide that is there to try to make *necessary *interactions safer.  If people had common sense then harsh restrictions would not be necessary - but if the majority think like you then there is no hope.  I suggest that you go home and read something about what is going on in the world.


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## Winters100 (28 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			I am thanks yeah

The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them
		
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And they have a pretty good idea that it is NOT spread by people staying home and staying away from others.  So unless you have a better idea for control than the WHO and just about every leading scientist perhaps you would like to not put others at risk by your foolish ideas and just stay home.


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## Winters100 (28 March 2020)

ecb89 said:



			It is really hard, and it’s not good for my mental health, even though I know it’s right.

Its even harder when I see the elderly out and about. I am being separated from my horse to help protect those who are vulnerable and some of those don’t seem to give a damn
		
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I think that we can safely say that being apart from our horses is small beer compared to what many will suffer in the coming months.


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## Winters100 (28 March 2020)

Expo said:



			Yes, thank you. I thought as much. My boy is on full livery and the YM is taking good care of him, but she has put in place slots to give us all a bit of pony time. With regards to going out, yes, I'm walking doggy once a day from home and we are very lucky to have some open access heathland and woods very close by so I can walk there, let the dog have a good run and never see a soul. I appreciate that not everyone is so fortunate. I do know folks, though, who are going out for their daily exercise and are also going to their horses, classing the horse visit as "essential" even though it's on full livery. I guess making a set of "one size fits all" rules under these circumstances is just about impossible and everyone is just looking for a way to make the restrictions work, whilst staying within them. The YM is simply trying to do her best, but needs to accommodate the needs of the part liveries who do their own mucking out. This means the full liveries are effectively blocked from seeing their horses, which seems a bit as if we are being penalised somehow. <<sigh>> ... not whinging, just trying to do my best like everyone.

Our local police are also using similar notices to these.

Maybe the answer is for the yard to lift to "no dogs" embargo whilst the crisis continues. Then we could do a dog walk and pony visit all in one.
		
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Appreciate that you are finding it difficult, but the answer is actually not for the YO to let you drive your dogs to the yard to see your horses, but for you to accept that your horses have the necessary daily care and to stay home and exercise your dogs from there. Sorry, but we all have to compromise right now and it sounds as if you are not worried about the welfare of your horses.  I truly understand how difficult it is, but if the majority do not stay home then harsher regulations will be introduced. Better to now allow those who have true welfare issues to have the yards to themselves.


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## sarahann1 (28 March 2020)

Wow, thanks for all the responses folks, I’ve not been able to face even coming back to this thread until now, me head is a mess.

In a way it’s nice to know others are in the same boat, I envy those of you who don’t seem to rely on your horses to keep you mentally sound as much as I do. 

I raised the question at our yard what will happen when this inevitably goes beyond 3 weeks. I don’t think they’d thought that far ahead yet. I have a tiny glimmer of hope they’ll at least let us into the fields, all of which are accessible without going anywhere near the main building. If that’s not going to be the case, I’m going to have to seriously think about trying to move her.


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## Micropony (28 March 2020)

SO1 said:



			It is incredibly difficult I am not banned from the yard but I have to travel on public transport which is still running but with being asked to only do essential journey's on public transport I don't think I can really justify going to the yard.

Three weeks will be struggle not to see my pony but there is now some mention of the lockdown being for 6 months which would be incredibly difficult for those of us who could not see our horses until the lockdown is lifted. I live on my own so not only will I not be able to see my horse until the lockdown is lifted I won't be able to interact socially with anyone until it lifted I will only be able to talk on the phone. 6 months without any proper interaction with a living being either animal or human is going to be mentally very challenging.
		
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I also live alone, so can empathise. I am not frontline but working from home on coronavirus stuff in a support capacity, so am basically working most of my waking hours during the week and I just want to see my horse and give him a groom and a cuddle. Riding would be wonderful, but I do think that is irresponsible unless the horse really is utterly bomb proof, which mine isn't. 
I thought I didn't like people very much, but am missing the company of other humans more than I expected to. Video calls help, but it's not the same.
Horse is looked after beautifully at his yard, I have no concerns whatsoever about his welfare, I am just being selfish wanting to see him for my own reasons. 
I think this will go on for a while, so am trying to get a grip and be sensible. It can't last forever, right?


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## SO1 (28 March 2020)

If deaths increase or someone at your yard or their family get seriously ill then you may better understand why some people who are risk adverse may have made the decision to lockdown the yard or severely restrict access.

My understanding is this virus can also live on fur so if you have virus on your clothes or face or hands and this gets transmitted to your horses' fur and someone else touches your horse the virus could get transmitted or maybe even if you horse touches another horse and the virus gets on to that horse' fur and the owner touches it.

Hand washing is vital. I have made the very difficult decision not to go to the yard following BEF advice not to ride and also being on part livery pony's basic care is being taken care of and he is on box rest with controlled walking which will be done now fully on the horse walker. This is not great for my mental health but there are times where one has to accept that we have to think of others not just ourselves. I may revise my decision depending on how long the lockdown goes on for example if the restrictions in place are said to go on beyond the 3 weeks - hopefully if we are all as compliant as possible with social distance and hygiene then the longer we are on lockdown the less virus out there and the less risk, the early stage of the lockdown is more risky especially if many people are not being careful enough. If I do need to go to the yard I will take a clean set of clothes to put on there and wash my face and hands before and after touching my pony.

YO and their staff will have to trust that those that come on their premise and those that their liveries are living with are complying with social distancing and hygiene when off the yard. Horse owners have a habit of attending to their horses even when they are really sick, mild symptoms of C19 may not put them off coming to the yard, can a YO trust that person is feeling ok, that anyone who lives in that person's house is not sick etc. This virus is killing people, I can totally understand why YO may want to restrict or stop access especially if they or their family are high risk. YO who employ staff will also have a duty of care towards those staff. These are not normal circumstances people will be worried about both their health and their business.


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## SO1 (28 March 2020)

I am also working from home and most of my work is focused on coronavirus but not NHS. I agree I think this could go  on for a a while, the schools are closed until at least September, I expect the lockdowns will gradually be extended as if they tell people that they might need to be locked down for 6 months there is a risk of panic and despair and also people more likely to break the rules, if you say three weeks people have some hope that it might stop after three weeks and people more likely to comply as they think they can cope with three weeks. In some respects from a behaviour aspect it would be easier to get people to comply with it if was winter as the outdoors become less appealing.

My concern if that they make the rules stricter and stop allowing exercise outdoors as for many people exercise really helps with mental health especially if you live in a small flat.




Micropony said:



			I also live alone, so can empathise. I am not frontline but working from home on coronavirus stuff in a support capacity, so am basically working most of my waking hours during the week and I just want to see my horse and give him a groom and a cuddle. Riding would be wonderful, but I do think that is irresponsible unless the horse really is utterly bomb proof, which mine isn't.
I thought I didn't like people very much, but am missing the company of other humans more than I expected to. Video calls help, but it's not the same.
Horse is looked after beautifully at his yard, I have no concerns whatsoever about his welfare, I am just being selfish wanting to see him for my own reasons.
I think this will go on for a while, so am trying to get a grip and be sensible. It can't last forever, right?
		
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## sakura (28 March 2020)

my mare is on full livery, I am therefore not her primary care giver and will not be seeing her until restrictions are lifted. of course this is a hard adjustment to make very quickly, and my mental health will likely suffer, but it'll protect others. and it won't be forever. my yard have been absolutely fantastic, I feel very lucky in that respect, but I miss her like crazy!


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## Cahill (28 March 2020)

this is the latest i have seen...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronav...Ca0cY4g1bcE5KlIJ9wBZNq_SP0SdA_wyYAl-MqGPf2LF0


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## Winters100 (28 March 2020)

Cahill said:



			this is the latest i have seen...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronav...Ca0cY4g1bcE5KlIJ9wBZNq_SP0SdA_wyYAl-MqGPf2LF0

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Seems pretty clear:_* "It is essential that you minimise the time spent outside of the home"  *_


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## Cahill (28 March 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Seems pretty clear:_* "It is essential that you minimise the time spent outside of the home"  *_

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i have been doing my horses (with dogs)then taking dogs for a walk,seems this counts as one now.


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## hopscotch bandit (29 March 2020)

Firefly9410 said:



			You do not have a contract with your yard owner for full livery.  They would have to take you to court to make you pay I think.  With no contract I think they would not have a leg to stand on because it is them who decided to go to full livery.  Not an easy position to be in it is no wonder you are upset about it.

In your situation I would start a deep litter bed so all you have to do in the evenings is a quick skip out and add fresh bedding freeing up more time for the other things you need to do there.  You sound really stressed out so I think you should do this for your health even if it is not the best for the horse.

.
		
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Ahh thanks but i will continue to muck out. I can't deep litter mine as this has never worked and there is no way i would have her skipped out both ends of the day.


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## SatansLittleHelper (29 March 2020)

I'm very lucky to have mine at walking distance from my house so can, if needed, combine walking a couple of the dogs down to check the horses. It's private property and no-one else needs to handle or go near mine (they live out) so quite safe from that perspective. However, I do only have the cob and Shitland there, my younger horse is away being backed etc and I've not seen him in 3 weeks and won't for the foreseeable future   He's only half an hour away by car but rules are rules. I had hoped to visit him weekly so it sucks a bit, I have absolute confidence in his trainer though so I know he's being well cared for. I live alone too but I've got dogs, parrots, rabbit etc to keep me occupied.
I think my mental health is going to take a bashing as my counsellor sessions have stopped for now and April 12th is the anniversary of my little girl's death  😭😭😭
Times are hard for us all, I really hope everyone stays safe...I'm open for a chat if anyone just needs to vent xxx


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## Winters100 (29 March 2020)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I'm very lucky to have mine at walking distance from my house so can, if needed, combine walking a couple of the dogs down to check the horses. It's private property and no-one else needs to handle or go near mine (they live out) so quite safe from that perspective. However, I do only have the cob and Shitland there, my younger horse is away being backed etc and I've not seen him in 3 weeks and won't for the foreseeable future   He's only half an hour away by car but rules are rules. I had hoped to visit him weekly so it sucks a bit, I have absolute confidence in his trainer though so I know he's being well cared for. I live alone too but I've got dogs, parrots, rabbit etc to keep me occupied.
I think my mental health is going to take a bashing as my counsellor sessions have stopped for now and April 12th is the anniversary of my little girl's death  😭😭😭
Times are hard for us all, I really hope everyone stays safe...I'm open for a chat if anyone just needs to vent xxx
		
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I'm sorry that you are not receiving your counsellor sessions at such a difficult time, it must be really the worst time for you to be alone.  If you ever want to chat just pm, and really do your best to set yourself some tasks around the home because not being busy will take a toll if you let it.  Do take care, keep in touch with your friends, and try to fill your day with tasks and little treats for achieving them. Chin up!


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## stormox (29 March 2020)

ecb89 said:



			Its even harder when I see the elderly out and about. I am being separated from my horse to help protect those who are vulnerable and some of those don’t seem to give a damn
		
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So you think the elderly shouldnt be out and about doing shopping and other necessary jobs but you should be allowed out pony cuddling? What an attitude!!


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## Winters100 (29 March 2020)

So early this morning I had a call from YO thanking me for staying away and asking what I thought about totally shutting down the yard to liveries.  Apparently yesterday many completely disregarded his request to make only essential visits, no extra people, keep visits short. It was a glorious day and he told me that there were many there, some even with their families, and several who hardly ever come in winter.  He had a big argument with one lady who wanted to ride her horse for the first time since October - obviously he told her that it was very wrong and she left in a huff.  Another lady brought someone to massage her horse - for the first time - and was upset when they were asked to leave.  

The sad thing is that if he does totally shut down it affects many people who have a much greater need to go (horses in recovery from illness or injuries), and who are there rain or shine giving care to their horses, not just on a sunny day when they want to play with them.  

I said that my view on this would be to announce that if this happens again he will close totally and hope that peer pressure will do the job.  He is considering this, but if not the gate will be locked.  He is a reasonable man, so I think (hope) if this happens he will allow those who have a great need to be there to come without anyone else knowing, there is only 2 of them, and one has a horse recovering from a horrific injury which we all thought would be the end for the horse.  But this is the reality of what happens if people like me who are lucky enough to have 2 uncomplicated horses without major health issues refuse to stay home.  Of course my horses are getting about 1/10 of the care they usually get, but they have basic care to be comfortable and to survive, not how I would wish to keep them, but for now I have to be satisfied.

A really sad thing that people cannot use common sense and think of others at such a time.


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## ecb89 (29 March 2020)

stormox said:



			So you think the elderly shouldnt be out and about doing shopping and other necessary jobs but you should be allowed out pony cuddling? What an attitude!!
		
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no that is not what I meant. I know of several vulnerable elderly people who are refusing to stay inside, even though they have been told to for 12 weeks. They have the attitude that they have had a long life, they will pass away eventually and no one can tell them what to do.


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## Honey08 (29 March 2020)

Winters100 I ended up doing times for people to come up.  There aren’t loads of us, so they have 2.5 hours - so can do jobs and ride if they want.  I said if rules weren’t followed the yard would be closed and they could either have full livery with no visits or grass livery in the furthest field from the house and no yard access.  Since then  everyone has followed rules perfectly.


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## Winters100 (29 March 2020)

Honey08 said:



			Winters100 I ended up doing times for people to come up.  There aren’t loads of us, so they have 2.5 hours - so can do jobs and ride if they want.  I said if rules weren’t followed the yard would be closed and they could either have full livery with no visits or grass livery in the furthest field from the house and no yard access.  Since then  everyone has followed rules perfectly.
		
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Sounds sensible - well done on coming up with a workable solution.  Out of interest do your full liveries do the right thing and stay away?  I would hope so as travelling to visit a horse on full livery seems wrong. I hope that this will continue to work for you


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## Honey08 (29 March 2020)

I don’t have any full liveries.  From what I hear, full livery yards around here are not allowing visits.  It’s hard, but I agree it’s not essential that you visit a horse on full livery.  You couldn’t argue your horse would suffer if you didn’t go.


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## Honey08 (29 March 2020)

Ps, I also reminded them it wasn’t being put in place to be horrible, but to keep us all safe and to stay within the government’s lockdown demands.


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## Dave's Mam (29 March 2020)

[59668] said:



			Not knowing how long it will be till I see her again has got me in pieces. Shes my soulmate.
I know there is far worse going on, but that doesnt make this ok or bearable at the moment.
		
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Oh I know how you feel.  There have been tears this week.


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## SWE (29 March 2020)

Very late to the thread and haven't managed to read all of the replies but what are peoples opinions on the below:

Horse on assisted DIY livery (yard cares for her 1 end of the day) along with 4 others on the yard, rest are on full livery. Yard has been put on full lock down and no one allowed up. 

What are your thoughts on this in my situation as an assisted DIY and also with regards to charges? I'm not really sure how to feel as know it's being done for the right reasons but also worrying about money being self employed and also really missing my girl.


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## be positive (29 March 2020)

SWE said:



			Very late to the thread and haven't managed to read all of the replies but what are peoples opinions on the below:

Horse on assisted DIY livery (yard cares for her 1 end of the day) along with 4 others on the yard, rest are on full livery. Yard has been put on full lock down and no one allowed up.

What are your thoughts on this in my situation as an assisted DIY and also with regards to charges? I'm not really sure how to feel as know it's being done for the right reasons but also worrying about money being self employed and also really missing my girl.
		
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As a YO I would turn the DIY's out 24/7 if possible to keep livery rates down or do a reduced rate for them until they can go out 24/7, the full liveries are used to the cost but it could be too much for a DIY to find, as long as the extra out of pocket costs are covered I would not want to add to peoples concerns at the moment , my part liveries are now out and owners are coming only to exercise, not daily, do the extra care they want to do, I do everything essential.


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## Dave's Mam (29 March 2020)

be positive said:



			As a YO I would turn the DIY's out 24/7 if possible to keep livery rates down or do a reduced rate for them until they can go out 24/7, the full liveries are used to the cost but it could be too much for a DIY to find, as long as the extra out of pocket costs are covered I would not want to add to peoples concerns at the moment , my part liveries are now out and owners are coming only to exercise, not daily, do the extra care they want to do, I do everything essential.
		
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My yard has turned out 24/7 & those that want to tend to their ponies are on 30 min slots.  I am staying away.  Dave is healthy, has people to check on him & is having a nice holiday, while I reduce the footfall on the yard in respect t the staff, family & others.  
God, I really miss my pony, but I'll see him soon.


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## criso (29 March 2020)

On the plus side my yard was much emptier today.  Biting wind, hail storms and even a bit of snow  meant only the most committed decided to ride (2 of us) and no one showed any interest in hanging around chatting.


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## Gingerwitch (29 March 2020)

Sorry but why should full livery folk be penalised for paying more ?  why is it that someone that cannot afford full livery have more right to see their horse/pony than those that pay for full livery as they work long hours or are out and around the country.  I am classed as a key worker, so I am going out to work, but as i work long hours my horses are on full livery.  So the opinion appears to be that I can risk my life to contact CV because i work in the transport industry, but must stay away from my horses because i ensure they have daily care. ie. full livery.  When someone whom is not exposing themselves to this through work can carry on, as they pay less and still get to see their horses?


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## Sussexbythesea (29 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Sorry but why should full livery folk be penalised for paying more ?  why is it that someone that cannot afford full livery have more right to see their horse/pony than those that pay for full livery as they work long hours or are out and around the country.  I am classed as a key worker, so I am going out to work, but as i work long hours my horses are on full livery.  So the opinion appears to be that I can risk my life to contact CV because i work in the transport industry, but must stay away from my horses because i ensure they have daily care. ie. full livery.  When someone whom is not exposing themselves to this through work can carry on, as they pay less and still get to see their horses?
		
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You’re not being penalised for paying more as such. Because your horse is looked after by someone else it’s not considered essential to have to go and see it. Plenty of people are key workers and do DIY, there are several on my yard. I’m still working albeit from home. I do understand though that it must be really awful not to see your horse I’d hate it and also I’d be worried about care if it were some of the YOs I’ve had before. I personally think that YOs should provide a safe opportunity at least once a week for owners to check their horses and I would personally regard that as essential (others would disagree). The government haven’t explicitly said that you can’t but people are following non-statutory BHS guidance and the like.


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## Upthecreek (29 March 2020)

It is very simple. The only reason anybody should be going to a shared yard is if they are solely responsible for the basic daily care of their horse.


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## Gingerwitch (29 March 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			It is very simple. The only reason anybody should be going to a shared yard is if they are solely responsible for the basic daily care of their horse.
		
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So should I change my livery status to DIY, so the livery yard looses out financially,  I will save loads of money, whilst I get more exercise and could then justify going to the yard twice a day for hours on end?


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## Gingerwitch (29 March 2020)

Sussexbythesea said:



			You’re not being penalised for paying more as such. Because your horse is looked after by someone else it’s not considered essential to have to go and see it. Plenty of people are key workers and do DIY, there are several on my yard. I’m still working albeit from home. I do understand though that it must be really awful not to see your horse I’d hate it and also I’d be worried about care if it were some of the YOs I’ve had before. I personally think that YOs should provide a safe opportunity at least once a week for owners to check their horses and I would personally regard that as essential (others would disagree). The government haven’t explicitly said that you can’t but people are following non-statutory BHS guidance and the like.
		
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I have my horses on full livery to ensure they are cared for whilst I am at work and so I can ride and enjoy them when I do get the chance rather than muck out, but I must admit this argument that if you are DIY you have more right to see your horse than those on Full Livery is really starting to grate on me, so if you are on a mixed livery yard, some can come up twice a day for hours on end, riding, lunging etc which is those whom pay the least, but those that pay the most are going to be banned for weeks ?  Sorry that does not sit well either way, would it for you ?


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## Upthecreek (29 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			So should I change my livery status to DIY, so the livery yard looses out financially,  I will save loads of money, whilst I get more exercise and could then justify going to the yard twice a day for hours on end?
		
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If you are already responsible for the daily care you have no choice but to go to the yard, although you could argue that DIY and part liveries should be made to go on full livery if the yard has sufficient staff to care for the horses adequately. Our country is currently officially in a state of emergency so I think in the current circumstances it would be unwise to put yourself and others at risk by going to the yard unless it is essential. Our yard has turned all horses out apart from a couple on box rest and nobody is allowed to go there except staff. There are no exceptions and this will be the case until restrictions are lifted.


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## Winters100 (29 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Sorry but why should full livery folk be penalised for paying more ?  why is it that someone that cannot afford full livery have more right to see their horse/pony than those that pay for full livery as they work long hours or are out and around the country.  I am classed as a key worker, so I am going out to work, but as i work long hours my horses are on full livery.  So the opinion appears to be that I can risk my life to contact CV because i work in the transport industry, but must stay away from my horses because i ensure they have daily care. ie. full livery.  When someone whom is not exposing themselves to this through work can carry on, as they pay less and still get to see their horses?
		
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I would have thought that in your position you would_ want _to stay away from the yard.  I am in a similar position to you of being at much higher risk of infection than most, _and this is exactly why I stopped going before any restrictions were introduced_.  I could still go now if I wanted, _but it is not the right thing to do_.  If you unwittingly take this virus to your yard then you really will see problems with care for your horses.  *It is exactly people like us, who could easily be infected now and not know it, who MUST stay away* and limit ALL contact with others to an absolute minimum.  I realise that this may seem 'unfair', but right now we are in a crisis and 'fair' doesn't mean anything.


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## Shay (29 March 2020)

Its not about who has a "right" to something or not.  Gingerwitch I really sympathise with your concerns and I don't want to be patronising - but perhaps thinking about it a bit differently would help?  This is about who absolutely has to be outside the house.  Not about who has a right to do this that or the other. Of course all horse owners have the same right to see thier animals.  But is is about who absolutely has to be at the yard otherwise the welfare of an animal will suffer - and who does not.


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## Dave's Mam (29 March 2020)

If you are frontline & at a higher risk of infection, then surely you should be doing your best not to take the virus to your yard?


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## Gingerwitch (29 March 2020)

Winters100 said:



			I would have thought that in your position you would_ want _to stay away from the yard.  I am in a similar position to you of being at much higher risk of infection than most, _and this is exactly why I stopped going before any restrictions were introduced_.  I could still go now if I wanted, _but it is not the right thing to do_.  If you unwittingly take this virus to your yard then you really will see problems with care for your horses.  *It is exactly people like us, who could easily be infected now and not know it, who MUST stay away* and limit ALL contact with others to an absolute minimum.  I realise that this may seem 'unfair', but right now we are in a crisis and 'fair' doesn't mean anything.
		
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All i am making the point of is, where is the fairness ?  folk are being sent home on 80% pay or full pay, I am working longer and more stressful hours for nothing extra, being exposed to lord knows what in order to keep food on shelves, but the upside is, that whilst DIY folk can go to the yard and spend hours with their horses doing all sorts, as i am on full livery I am being treated as a social leper for wanting to visit my horse for some well needed fresh air and relaxation.  When my alarm goes off at 03.30 tomorrow morning and I do not get back till after 7pm will anyone pat me on the back or even thank me - no because I am one of the unseen keeping food on shelve but as I have tried to ensure the best welfare for my animals I am banned from the yard.


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## Dave's Mam (29 March 2020)

My Yardmate is a serving Police Officer, in the frontline.  She's not attending the yard.


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## Gingerwitch (29 March 2020)

Dave's Mam said:



			If you are frontline & at a higher risk of infection, then surely you should be doing your best not to take the virus to your yard?[/QUO

So is everyone else, we do not turn pink or green when we are infected, so the same rule should be across the board, if you cannot afford full livery for 3 weeks then how would you afford a vet bill, or if you were ill and could not get to the yard what would happen then and does this also not encourage those on DIY to carry on regardless of what symptoms they may have?
		
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## Dave's Mam (29 March 2020)

I am DIY.  I have not attended my yard in a week.  Staff are checking my pony.  I hate it, I want to go, but I have chosen to reduce footfall on the yard, much as though I want to go to see Dave.


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## Gingerwitch (29 March 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			If you are already responsible for the daily care you have no choice but to go to the yard, although you could argue that DIY and part liveries should be made to go on full livery if the yard has sufficient staff to care for the horses adequately. Our country is currently officially in a state of emergency so I think in the current circumstances it would be unwise to put yourself and others at risk by going to the yard unless it is essential. Our yard has turned all horses out apart from a couple on box rest and nobody is allowed to go there except staff. There are no exceptions and this will be the case until restrictions are lifted.
		
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This situation is one  I can cope with this as it is fair and across the board.  What i cannot cope with is this two tier system depending on what provision you have normally made for your horse.


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## ester (29 March 2020)

But if you don't have that you will have horses not getting any care at all?


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## be positive (29 March 2020)

Not every yard can offer full livery so there will not be a rule across the board because every situation is different, it is not as simple as paying for full care for 3 weeks if the YO isn't able to offer it.


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## Gingerwitch (29 March 2020)

Shay said:



			Its not about who has a "right" to something or not.  Gingerwitch I really sympathise with your concerns and I don't want to be patronising - but perhaps thinking about it a bit differently would help?  This is about who absolutely has to be outside the house.  Not about who has a right to do this that or the other. Of course all horse owners have the same right to see thier animals.  But is is about who absolutely has to be at the yard otherwise the welfare of an animal will suffer - and who does not.
		
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Hi Shay, all of our yard has the same access to pay for turn out, bring in, full livery on a daily basis, but the same ones have changed nothing as the weather has been nice they are even bathing on an afternoon without a care in the world.  At the least hey could limit to being on the yard at one end of the day or the other.


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## Gingerwitch (29 March 2020)

be positive said:



			Not every yard can offer full livery so there will not be a rule across the board because every situation is different, it is not as simple as paying for full care for 3 weeks if the YO isn't able to offer it.
		
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Sorry if yards are going to remain open then regardless of what livery you are on then how can you honestly expect certain folk to stay away but others can come and go as they please. If this lock down carries on over the 3 weeks are you really expecting us Full Livery folk to keep paying up without seeing our horses ? whilst those that are on DIY can carry on as normal ?


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## Winters100 (29 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			All i am making the point of is, where is the fairness ? .
		
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I am sorry for you Gingerwitch, because you are right, it is not fair.  But we all have to accept restrictions now, and they will not be 'fair' in that they will not affect everyone equally.  Is it 'fair' that I cannot go to the yard just because I live with a doctor? Not really, but it is also _right_ that I don't go.  Is it fair that someone living in a bedsit in the city has the same restrictions as someone living in a country house with a large garden? Not really.  And it certainly is not fair that so many will die horrible deaths, completely alone, and if we do not restrict the rate of infection also without medical intervention which might have saved them if the curve had been flattened sufficiently. We all have to make sacrifices for this policy to work.  

Right now we all need to do the right thing. Not look at others to justify doing what we want, because we must all think of each other, and of society as a whole.  At present our only chance is if everyone avoids all unnecessary contact.  Sure for some they will have contact through their work, do you really think that I like sending someone out to work in an emergency room day after day? I do not, but it is our duty, and it is also our duty to restrict our personal lives so that we do not spread this further.


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## Dave's Mam (29 March 2020)

Winters100 said:



			I am sorry for you Gingerwitch, because you are right, it is not fair.  But we all have to accept restrictions now, and they will not be 'fair' in that they will not affect everyone equally.  Is it 'fair' that I cannot go to the yard just because I live with a doctor? Not really, but it is also _right_ that I don't go.  Is it fair that someone living in a bedsit in the city has the same restrictions as someone living in a country house with a large garden? Not really.  And it certainly is not fair that so many will die horrible deaths, completely alone, and if we do not restrict the rate of infection also without medical intervention which might have saved them if the curve had been flattened sufficiently. We all have to make sacrifices for this policy to work. 

Right now we all need to do the right thing. Not look at others to justify doing what we want, because we must all think of each other, and of society as a whole.  At present our only chance is if everyone avoids all unnecessary contact.  Sure for some they will have contact through their work, do you really think that I like sending someone out to work in an emergency room day after day? I do not, but it is our duty, and it is also our duty to restrict our personal lives so that we do not spread this further.
		
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This.  This all over.


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## milliepops (29 March 2020)

be positive said:



			Not every yard can offer full livery so there will not be a rule across the board because every situation is different, it is not as simple as paying for full care for 3 weeks if the YO isn't able to offer it.
		
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this
our yard is half full, half DIY. YO would be run ragged trying to do the whole lot by himself, it's not a bank of staff, it's one bloke.  Just because a yard offers some full livery doesn't mean that the capacity is there to increase the provision.
If I couldn't go up because of symptoms or suspected contact with someone who had them, I'd have to ask another DIY to take my horses on.


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## Gingerwitch (29 March 2020)

ester said:



			But if you don't have that you will have horses not getting any care at all?[/QUOTE

Full livery would cost approx £10 per day, so 3 weeks of 7 days is 21 = £210 quid and if you cannot put your hands on that amount what would you do if you were ill ?



Winters100 said:



			I am sorry for you Gingerwitch, because you are right, it is not fair.  But we all have to accept restrictions now, and they will not be 'fair' in that they will not affect everyone equally.  Is it 'fair' that I cannot go to the yard just because I live with a doctor? Not really, but it is also _right_ that I don't go.  Is it fair that someone living in a bedsit in the city has the same restrictions as someone living in a country house with a large garden? Not really.  And it certainly is not fair that so many will die horrible deaths, completely alone, and if we do not restrict the rate of infection also without medical intervention which might have saved them if the curve had been flattened sufficiently. We all have to make sacrifices for this policy to work. 

Right now we all need to do the right thing. Not look at others to justify doing what we want, because we must all think of each other, and of society as a whole.  At present our only chance is if everyone avoids all unnecessary contact.  Sure for some they will have contact through their work, do you really think that I like sending someone out to work in an emergency room day after day? I do not, but it is our duty, and it is also our duty to restrict our personal lives so that we do not spread this further.
		
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Hi Winters100, both my and my partner are front line, he is in a worse of situation than me, but again one of the unseen hero's in all of this.  All I am saying is that if a yard is banning folk then it banns all folk, not just the chosen few.
		
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## ester (29 March 2020)

It was not clear that you were referring to your yard set up only, rather than the nation as a whole - where it isn't often the cost but actually having people to do it that is the issue even on those with mixed livery types on the yard, staff numbers are usually what is needed for the normal amount of full livery.

If you have an issue with the specific situation on your yard perhaps you should tell your YO that everyone should be on full livery.


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## be positive (29 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Sorry if yards are going to remain open then regardless of what livery you are on then how can you honestly expect certain folk to stay away but others can come and go as they please. If this lock down carries on over the 3 weeks are you really expecting us Full Livery folk to keep paying up without seeing our horses ? whilst those that are on DIY can carry on as normal ?
		
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It may not seem fair but nothing about this situation is fair, my liveries are part and I am now doing full basic care owners can come to exercise and do additional care once a day at a prearranged time, I have turned them out so there is no increase in livery and if any were on DIY I would have insisted they turned out and came once a day, it is down to YO to set the rules and liveries to abide by them not try to get round them.
If the owner was injured or otherwise unable to care for the horse for 3 weeks they would not expect to have livery reduced for the period unless it was a longer term injury when they may be able to arrange for the horse to be turned away or even sold but these are exceptional circumstances and we all have try out hardest to do what is right, not just for ourselves but for everyone else.


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## be positive (29 March 2020)

Full livery would cost approx £10 per day, so 3 weeks of 7 days is 21 = £210 quid and if you cannot put your hands on that amount what would you do if you were ill ? 

Not many places will do full livery for £70, they may usually do a daily rate but if they have to supply hay and bedding and do 7 days a week the rate will probably be more in line with normal full livery rates and most will be double that at nearer £140 per week. It is all irrelevant if the YO cannot offer it anyway.


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## ecb89 (29 March 2020)

My full livery is £545 pm FYI (Essex)


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## Sussexbythesea (29 March 2020)

There are no staff on our yard not even a yard owner. All maintenance requests such fencing go to the estate office. Once a week the muck trailer is emptied, once a week the school is harrowed by estate staff who are blokes who drive tractors around and do not care for animals let alone horses. That’s it. 

We as liveries keep any communal areas clean, buy cleaning products and toilet roll. I personally bought Virkon S and spray bottles to disinfect locks, door handles, toilet area. We no longer congregate in any communal area. 

When I’m away working or if I’m ill I pay another livery to do my two horses. She is classed as a vulnerable person and is now coming up only once a day when no one is around. No one is staying on the yard any longer than to carry out chores. Yes most of us are still exercising as it’s not yet been banned by the government, I’m sure it will be and when it is I will stop.

I live alone and my nearest family is 130 miles away so I’m totally responsible and I am worried if I become ill but hope the other liveries will help out as I would help them.


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## angrybird1 (29 March 2020)

Sussexbythesea said:



			There are no staff on our yard not even a yard owner. All maintenance requests such fencing go to the estate office. Once a week the muck trailer is emptied, once a week the school is harrowed by estate staff who are blokes who drive tractors around and do not care for animals let alone horses. That’s it.

We as liveries keep any communal areas clean, buy cleaning products and toilet roll. I personally bought Virkon S and spray bottles to disinfect locks, door handles, toilet area. We no longer congregate in any communal area.

When I’m away working or if I’m ill I pay another livery to do my two horses. She is classed as a vulnerable person and is now coming up only once a day when no one is around. No one is staying on the yard any longer than to carry out chores. Yes most of us are still exercising as it’s not yet been banned by the government, I’m sure it will be and when it is I will stop.

I live alone and my nearest family is 130 miles away so I’m totally responsible and I am worried if I become ill but hope the other liveries will help out as I would help them.
		
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I'm in a similar situation.   If I don't do mine no one will.   I have arranged back up emergency care if I'm ill but otherwise I need to go myself at the moment twice a day.   If things get stricter they are going to be turned out and I will go once a day.   It's not ideal but it's the best I can do.


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## criso (29 March 2020)

Actually on yards that I've been on where the basic stable rent includes hay an bedding, £10 ia day s about right for weekdays. Weekends are usually more though.  However this sort of deal is fairly basic

It's the sort of deal I'm on Mon -  Fri so I'm fine not to go up for a few days but does need some attendance.  It does not include holding for vets and farriers  or much in the way of extras..   At the moment turnout is still very limited and muddy so I need to exercise a couple of days in the week to avoid filled legs and apply mud fever treatments.  I am expected to organise my own feed and put it in bins and  make up supplements ready to tipped in each day.   These are all little things but need to be done and I am expected to do it.

So I tend to agree that while you may get a day rate for that, you won't get the sort of comprehensive cover where you don't have to turn up at all.


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## m1stify (29 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Sorry but why should full livery folk be penalised for paying more ?  why is it that someone that cannot afford full livery have more right to see their horse/pony than those that pay for full livery as they work long hours or are out and around the country.  I am classed as a key worker, so I am going out to work, but as i work long hours my horses are on full livery.  So the opinion appears to be that I can risk my life to contact CV because i work in the transport industry, but must stay away from my horses because i ensure they have daily care. ie. full livery.  When someone whom is not exposing themselves to this through work can carry on, as they pay less and still get to see their horses?
		
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Hear hear!!!


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## Winters100 (29 March 2020)

Hi Winters100, both my and my partner are front line, he is in a worse of situation than me, but again one of the unseen hero's in all of this. All I am saying is that if a yard is banning folk then it banns all folk, not just the chosen few. 


I get it - I know that it is hard.  But really those of us who have a higher chance of getting this have to restrict our lives even more. I would say stop even thinking about what anyone else is doing. You don't want to spread this anywhere, let alone to the people who care for your horse, so it is anyway better that you stay away right now.  This will go on for a while, but not forever.


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## Pinkvboots (29 March 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest?

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what?

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence
		
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Are you serious if people still have the luxury of being able to do there own horse they could at least abide by the yard rules, while people have this attitude about it the longer we will be on lockdown, if they were on my yard they would be banned.


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## Upthecreek (29 March 2020)

This is not aimed at anyone in particular but when are people going to wake up and realise how serious this is? To be honest I am shocked at how many people are pretty much carrying on as normal under the illusion that what they are doing doesn’t affect anyone else. I’m beginning to think that I am watching different TV and seeing different information than a lot of people. Over 200 people have died from Coronavirus since yesterday and thousands more will die. We are in national crisis and at the highest level of emergency yet people still think missing their horses or not wanting to stop riding is a reason to go to the yard. If your horses are or can be looked after by someone else you shouldn’t be going to the yard. 

It’s hard for everyone and I especially feel for those whose horses are important for their mental health, but we have to slow the spread of this virus down so the NHS can cope with the volume of patients requiring treatment. 

We should not be leaving our homes, except for certain essential purposes, and even then we should be keeping this to a minimum. It doesn’t matter if we won’t see anyone else at the yard or if we think we’re there anyway so may as well ride so end up being there two hours instead of one. The government has issued these restrictions to EVERYONE. It is not for individuals to decide if they apply to them or not. And no it’s not fair if people are still doing x,y and z and we aren’t, but we are in a desperate situation and desperate times call for desperate measures. We all have to accept that personal sacrifice and changing the way we live is necessary at the moment.


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## SO1 (29 March 2020)

I am now feeling increasing depressed about the whole situation - there is talk of the lockdown going on for 6 months, 3 weeks I can cope with 6 months I expect lots of people would start to struggle emotionally and perhaps financially. My concern is this problem will not be resolved until we get a vaccine. I do feel sorry for those in the NHS and key workers who have more risk than those of us who just stay at home.

I am part livery so everything expect grooming and exercise. I am not banned from the yard but use public transport to get there so I am doing the responsible thing and YO is doing the extras. I can't just give my pony a 6 month holiday in a nice field with lots of grass as he gets obese easily. Somewhat luckily he is on box rest for an injury and so is not getting turnout so no grass so don't need to worry quite so much about laminitis risk. He is on controlled walking and we have access to a horse walker so he is on that at the moment and I will pay extra so he can get a decent groom once a week. His leg is meant to be scanned in 3 weeks time with a view to starting some turnout but if we remain on lockdown the vets doing emergency only his leg won't get scanned and he will remain on box rest with controlled walking. He certainly cannot go in the field with decent grass unless he can have enough exercise to keep his weight under control. If neither I nor the staff member can ride him due to the restrictions then we will have look at other forms of exercise, if I can't go the yard for 6 months my bill for exercise and services will probably be more than £3,000. Luckily I am still on full pay and working full time from home. 

It would be nice even if I could just see my pony once a fortnight, public transport is still running so I could get to the yard and probably less people on public transport than there is in Tesco - I saw the queue in Tesco was going out the car park. Luckily I do not need to go to Tesco for shopping as plenty of other less busy options. However I am trying to do the responsible thing as people are dying and even with frantic handwashing and social distancing for nearly two weeks there is no guarantee that I do not have the virus. 

People in the countryside may be thinking they won't get it because they see less people but this might a be false sense of security as I am sure most people have had colds and if you have enough interaction with people or touch enough surfaces to get a cold you could have enough interaction to get this virus. In most yards the gates are going to be the issue very difficult to avoid touching the gates if you are coming on the premises and or turning out and catching in your horse, or perhaps opening the gate to the school.


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## Bernster (29 March 2020)

I know SO1.  3 weeks is tough but am very blue about the idea of it going on for months. it’s a fine balance for the govt to achieve.  Long enough to make a difference but not so long that it impacts too much on everything else, and that people will start to ignore the lock down or try to find more ways around it.  The glimmer of hope is that wuhan is back up (albeit with a possible 2nd wave) and this will end.  Just don’t know exactly when 😫


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## Dave's Mam (29 March 2020)

This wee lad is enjoying his holiday & not bothered that Mam can't visit.


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## Michen (29 March 2020)

I do wonder what yards will do if this continues for a long time. News saying up to six months before reality. Those that are totally unable to see their horses, are the yards really likely to enforce that for months and months?


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## Winters100 (29 March 2020)

Dave's Mam said:









This wee lad is enjoying his holiday & not bothered that Mam can't visit.
		
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He is a very cool pony!  Would love one like him!


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## SWE (29 March 2020)

Michen said:



			I do wonder what yards will do if this continues for a long time. News saying up to six months before reality. Those that are totally unable to see their horses, are the yards really likely to enforce that for months and months?
		
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I bloody hope not, I'll be in bits before much longer!


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## Lillian_paddington (29 March 2020)

To be fair, I don’t know any full livery yards allowing owners to see their horses. Maybe that’s just my area?


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## Michen (29 March 2020)

SWE said:



			I bloody hope not, I'll be in bits before much longer!
		
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Well this isn’t going away any time soon. Certainly we can expect the current restrictions for at least 2 months I would have thought before they are relaxed a bit. 

I do think yard owners will need to apply a degree of practicality, this is not a short term problem.


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## Pippity (29 March 2020)

People complaining about fairness: You're right. There's absolutely nothing fair about this.

It's not fair that my 6yo niece can't understand why she's coughing so hard she vomits, and why it hurts to breathe. It's not fair that my sister's starting to come down with it. It's not fair that my blind brother-in-law is going to be the sole carer for a 6yo, a 11yo, and his wife, while still trying to work from home because they need the money.

This ISN'T ABOUT FAIRNESS. This is about doing every little thing you can to STOP THIS THING SPREADING.

It's not fair that some people get to spend time in their garden, while I'm in a town centre flat. It's not fair that my income is secure while some people have no money coming in and don't know how they'll pay their rent.

This isn't about, "Oh, well, the rules say that I can go out for one exercise session, so I'll go for a six-hour walk!" Stop looking at the letter of the law and how you can work around it. Look at the spirit. Look at what YOU can do.

Yes, it sucks. Yes, it's horrible. God, I miss my horse. But do I miss her enough to make my YO's 6yo daughter go through what my niece is going through? No. No, I don't.

Stay. Home.


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## Dave's Mam (29 March 2020)

Pippity said:



			People complaining about fairness: You're right. There's absolutely nothing fair about this.

It's not fair that my 6yo niece can't understand why she's coughing so hard she vomits, and why it hurts to breathe. It's not fair that my sister's starting to come down with it. It's not fair that my blind brother-in-law is going to be the sole carer for a 6yo, a 11yo, and his wife, while still trying to work from home because they need the money.

This ISN'T ABOUT FAIRNESS. This is about doing every little thing you can to STOP THIS THING SPREADING.

It's not fair that some people get to spend time in their garden, while I'm in a town centre flat. It's not fair that my income is secure while some people have no money coming in and don't know how they'll pay their rent.

This isn't about, "Oh, well, the rules say that I can go out for one exercise session, so I'll go for a six-hour walk!" Stop looking at the letter of the law and how you can work around it. Look at the spirit. Look at what YOU can do.

Yes, it sucks. Yes, it's horrible. God, I miss my horse. But do I miss her enough to make my YO's 6yo daughter go through what my niece is going through? No. No, I don't.

Stay. Home.
		
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This.  Stay home.


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## Gingerwitch (30 March 2020)

Dave's Mam said:



			This.  Stay home.
		
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But I can be forced to have to shop at 3 shops as I try to provide the basics for 3 households, 2 of which have people over 80  because of others too.  I can see why this lockdown isn't going to work  if we don't get some fairness in the system.


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## Pippity (30 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			But I can be forced to have to shop at 3 shops as I try to provide the basics for 3 households, 2 of which have people over 80  because of others too.  I can see why this lockdown isn't going to work  if we don't get some fairness in the system.
		
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Fairness over buying food isn't fairness over getting to see your horse.


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## Chinchilla (30 March 2020)

None of this is fair though if you want to get technical. Not the affect on horse owners, people who've lost their jobs, schools, keyworkers pushing themselves to the limit and beyond every day.
But you know what's even more unfair?

People.
Are.
Actually.
Dying.

When you go out (even to see your horse because 'it's not fair' that you can't even though it's perfectly well looked after) you are potentially killing people or making them quite seriously ill.

Yes, the restrictions are inconvenient, but that is ALL.
No one will suffer for adhering to them and going out for essential reasons only - that's BASIC necessities in shops and BASIC necessary care for animals only, however 'unfair' it is.
Yes you may vent about it, because it isn't fun, but flaunting the rules because you perceive it as unfair is just blatantly selfish.

The only reason lockdown isn't working is because we don't really, truly have a lockdown because people just aren't following what they've been told to do....


Eta I regretted this approximately 0.2 seconds after posting it.
*awaits furious lynch mob*


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## Winters100 (30 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			But I can be forced to have to shop at 3 shops as I try to provide the basics for 3 households, 2 of which have people over 80  because of others too.  I can see why this lockdown isn't going to work  if we don't get some fairness in the system.
		
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I would suggest that you ask around locally if anyone is willing to help you with the shopping - knowing that you are a key worker I am sure that there will be many volunteers.  

The fact is that you and I are in the same boat in that since we have a higher chance of contracting the disease we should be the ones trying to take our social interactions down to 0, or as close to that as humanly possible.    I agree that you are exactly a person who should_ not _be going into 3 shops, not because it is 'not fair', but because you represent a higher risk to others - so try to get some help with that.

Life was never actually fair before, it is just that we are seeing it in a more visible way right now, and in a way that impacts us directly.  I mean it isn't fair that our kids are born in European countries with health systems and free education and others are born in war zones.  It isn't fair that I was born into a middle class family and had a comfortable upbringing while other kids were born to drug addicts.  So forget about 'fair' and think about what you can do to help the situation - because if everyone does this there is some chance to limit the time that this will take.

I see that you are finding this really difficult and frustrating, you are not alone in that, but actually being envious of others is a really negative thing, and in the long run it will only affect you, because your YO is unlikely to suddenly relent and allow full liveries to go to the yard just to see their horses - and s/he is right.  So forget about what everyone else is doing, and remember that in staying home you are protecting others and also protecting your horse - because if this virus spreads to the yard for sure there will have to be lower standards of care.

This will not go on forever, and more containment is achieved now the less time it will take.  So do try to think positively that you can help society in both doing your job and in staying home when you are not at work, and if you are tempted to think about what others are doing why not think about those who are worse off - always puts things into perspective a little.  Chin up.


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## View (30 March 2020)

Right now, nothing is fair.  I'm terrified of bringing this home and giving it to my husband, so although I am sleeping at home, I haven't seen him or my daughter for over a week.  The only reason that I have seen my son is that he and I are both key workers, and work for the same company.  My daughter is doing the food shopping, twice a week.  I'd love some equine therapy in the guise of working in the yard of the now closed riding school where I taught twice a week - but I must not go there or risk potentially spreading it to them.

I have staff who are likely to lose parents or spouses in the next few days.

I have staff complaining because I won't send them home on full pay because they have vulnerable partners (but we have offered them their annual leave).

Nothing is fair at the moment, but this is a time to do things for the good of society as a whole.

Yard owners and managers need to make sensible decisions, again, for the greater good but I hope none of them are seeing this as an opportunity to grab money.


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## Gingerwitch (30 March 2020)

View said:



			Right now, nothing is fair.  I'

I have staff complaining because I won't send them home on full pay because they have vulnerable partners (but we have offered them their annual leave).

Nothing is fair at the moment, but this is a time to do things for the good of society as a whole.

Yard owners and managers need to make sensible decisions, again, for the greater good but I hope none of them are seeing this as an opportunity to grab money.
		
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I totally get this, most of my friends have been furlough'd, so are at home getting 80% wages, me i get to work in it, if i go off sick guess what  I will get ?

Yes SSP ! - that's grand isn't  it.  i am on a break now, its been an incredibly stressful shift already and some twonk has taken/hidden all of my cereals,  used all the milk and has left us with half a bog roll and two tea bags.

So not exactly wanting to do my bit for society at the moment !


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## Honey08 (30 March 2020)

Life’s not fair at the moment.  Sad but true.  It’s nothing to do with a tier system, it’s down to the fact that nobody should be making non essential journeys.  Nothing else! It isn’t the yards creating this situation, it’s the Government’s way of trying to protect us.  I just wish that people would work it out!  By not going places you don’t have to go you might just be saving your own life. or someone else’s life.  It’s that simple.

But I can certainly sympathise with people struggling to get shopping for people in isolation as well as yourself.  I’m in the same boat.  I’m having to go out more than Id like to because of it.  Having to go to more shops than I need to because of limitations.  The local coop that knows my mum has been great and will put things aside for her that I can collect.  Generally I think that every over 70 yr old, or anyone else that has to isolate, needs to be given a shopping pass that can be given to whoever is shopping for them to enable them to pick up extra shopping along with their own.


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## stormox (30 March 2020)

Life isnt fair in general. Never has been. We had feasts when  Biafrans werestarving. We have peace while Syria is at war. Some people are fleeing their country and dying in lorries and boats.
Life is not fair, people are not born equal.
This wont go on for ever- 2 months, 6 months who knows. But for the sake of everyone we must make do with what we have and not want what others have -for a short while at least.


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## hopscotch bandit (30 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I totally get this, most of my friends have been furlough'd, so are at home getting 80% wages, me i get to work in it, if i go off sick guess what  I will get ?

Yes SSP ! - that's grand isn't  it.  i am on a break now, its been an incredibly stressful shift already and some twonk has taken/hidden all of my cereals,  used all the milk and has left us with half a bog roll and two tea bags.

So not exactly wanting to do my bit for society at the moment !
		
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Well I'm a limited company contractor and won't get a penny as the government has already said that you are not entitled to SSP unless you are an employee of your own limited company and that also applies to other statutory payments. Whilst you'd think that you would be an employee of your own company you are not.  If you have a controlling interest in the company, or are the sole shareholder or sole director then you are not an employee.  This is the way it was set up for me by the accountancy company so I can't get anything.  Fortunately I have savings although most of that is in a bond which is inaccesible until August   So I guess I won't be getting 80% or even 10% lol

Thankfully I am still working in my job although I didn't think I would be.  The construction company I work for has issued me with a letter confirming I work on site in case I get stopped by the police, however unlikely this is.  I am trying to pay off my large vets bill whilst ensuring we have some money to fall back on if we should go into total lockdown. I am santising everything that I come into contact with and have a big line around my desk so people practice safe distancing.  Most of the staff have been sent home, non essential staff, it's just me and a couple of others.  There are around 10 people on site, one per table spread out in the canteen, all practising sanitising and social distancing.

Today is my 50th birthday and a few weeks ago I had hopes of celebrating it with family and friends and going for nice meals and maybe a weekend away.  Hopefully this will come one day and I will be able to celebrate then! I realise people are losing their lives and my problems pale into insignificance in comparison ..........


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## Peregrine Falcon (30 March 2020)

HB, I hope you find a way of marking your 50th today. What about ordering a takeaway! Lots of our local pubs are trading that way.


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## Pearlsasinger (30 March 2020)

Life *isn't* fair!


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## CavaloBranco (30 March 2020)

Happy Birthday Hopscotch Bandit! When this is all over there will be amazing celebrations!! x


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## Winters100 (30 March 2020)

hopscotch bandit said:



			Today is my 50th birthday and a few weeks ago I had hopes of celebrating it with family and friends and going for nice meals and maybe a weekend away.  Hopefully this will come one day and I will be able to celebrate then! I realise people are losing their lives and my problems pale into insignificance in comparison ..........
		
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Of course if you want you could take the view that if no one saw your birthday it didn't happen - which means you are still in your 40s  Do try to find some way to celebrate though - sounds like you need a bit of fun.  Chin up!


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## scats (30 March 2020)

Happy birthday HB!  X


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## Honey08 (30 March 2020)

Happy Birthday Hopscotch!  🍾🎂🎉

I like Winter’s theory that you’re still 49 as nobody saw it.  However the main thing with birthdays is it doesn’t matter how big the number- as long as they keep coming!


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## Surbie (30 March 2020)

Happy birthday HB - hope you can find a bit of niceness in it.


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## Leo Walker (30 March 2020)

be positive said:



			Full livery would cost approx £10 per day, so 3 weeks of 7 days is 21 = £210 quid and if you cannot put your hands on that amount what would you do if you were ill ?

Not many places will do full livery for £70, they may usually do a daily rate but if they have to supply hay and bedding and do 7 days a week the rate will probably be more in line with normal full livery rates and most will be double that at nearer £140 per week. It is all irrelevant if the YO cannot offer it anyway.
		
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Emergency full livery care by a freelancer is £20 a day. But she cant cope with everyone on full livery. Shes doing my two as I'm isolating and another person is doing someone elses. There isnt capacity to put the whole yard on full livery. The YO is workng hard to get it so everyone can go out 24/7 at some point this week though, and I suspect things will change again at that point.


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## SatansLittleHelper (30 March 2020)

Happy Birthday HB 🎈🎊


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## be positive (30 March 2020)

Leo Walker said:



			Emergency full livery care by a freelancer is £20 a day. But she cant cope with everyone on full livery. Shes doing my two as I'm isolating and another person is doing someone elses. There isnt capacity to put the whole yard on full livery. The YO is workng hard to get it so everyone can go out 24/7 at some point this week though, and I suspect things will change again at that point.
		
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The first line above was a quote from someone saying it was only £10 per day, in my experience it will be more like the £20 and beyond many yards to provide or owners to pay longer term.


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## ycbm (30 March 2020)

Happy Birthday HB

🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂
🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾
🥂🥂🥂🥂🥂🥂


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## Gingerwitch (30 March 2020)

Leo Walker said:



			YO is working hard to get it so everyone can go out 24/7 at some point this week though, and I suspect things will change again at that point.
		
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Hi again this I do not have an issue with, as everyone is being treated the same and has the same standard, what I cannot cope with is the two tier system of those that can and those that cannot.  I assume then that the horses that need special care the yo can put on full livery livery and stop anyone from visiting the yard. So everyone is in the same boat.

I would support this 100%.

The £10 per day was mentioned by me, this is on top of your normal livery package, does not include feed or bedding, a turn out or a bring in is already included in the livery package


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## SO1 (30 March 2020)

One thing my YO has done for me which has made a difference to my emotional health with missing my pony is to send little videos & we even had a video call so I could see him live & he could hear my voice.


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## Keith_Beef (30 March 2020)

I went out yesterday afternoon for my daily permitted walk around within a radius of 1km of my home. I walked past one of the racehorse training grounds and saw about six or eight horses in there, walking, trotting and cantering, that most definitely were not racehorses, but the kind of leisure horses and hacks that I usually see on the streets on their ways to the forest.

Coming back towards the house I saw a neighbour from the flats next door, and elderly lady in her eighties, with her dog, chatting to a young man, respecting the social distancing rules, so I stopped to talk, too (it's probably over a month since I last saw her).

It turns out that the young man's girlfriend is a riding instructor at one of the yards across the street from my house. When I commented that I'd seen people riding out of the yards, he told us that owners can't take out their own horses, most have had their shoes pulled off and have been turned away, and the few that are left are being ridden only by qualified instructors employed by the yards; and that France Galop, the company that manages the racehorse training grounds, has opened up those training grounds so that leisure horses can be exercised now that the local government has declared the forest paths off-limits.


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## tristar (30 March 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Life *isn't* fair!
		
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well its time it was.............fairer


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## hopscotch bandit (30 March 2020)

Aww guys thank you so very much, that's really kind of you.  Good idea about the takeaway, and those who said I could be 49 forever!!
	



I agree that there will be amazing celebrations when this is all over.  I wonder if it will be a bit like liberation day/independence day/VE day.  Someone said it will be marked with great sadness because of all those thousands that have died but they still celebrated the end of the war in the same way.

I don't expect there will be street parties and carnivals because the government will still want us to stay clear of crowds.  But I expect there will be fireworks (that we don't want) and flags and bunting in the streets, televised the world over.

As we are behind France, Italy and Spain I wonder if we will sit in our living rooms under lockdown and watch their celebrations on TV and wait in anticipation of our freedom??


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## southerncomfort (30 March 2020)

Happy birthday HB!  I shall raise a glass to you this evening! 

I wonder if we will have a lingering fear of crowds when this is all over.


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## Gingerwitch (30 March 2020)

I now know why most horses hate box rest, maybe the vets will reconsider dolling this advice out to us owners when we get out of this, can you just imagine what it must be like for the horse, they have no idea why they are not going out and don't even have a computer to keep themselves occupied.


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## hopscotch bandit (30 March 2020)

southerncomfort said:



			Happy birthday HB!  I shall raise a glass to you this evening!

I wonder if we will have a lingering fear of crowds when this is all over.
		
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Thank you, enjoy!


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## J&S (30 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I now know why most horses hate box rest, maybe the vets will reconsider dolling this advice out to us owners when we get out of this, can you just imagine what it must be like for the horse, they have no idea why they are not going out and don't even have a computer to keep themselves occupied.
		
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Now wouldn't it be easy if we humans could be kept happy with a treat ball!


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## Peregrine Falcon (30 March 2020)

J&S said:



			Now wouldn't it be easy if we humans could be kept happy with a treat ball!
		
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Oohh, now there's a thought....what would you like in your treat ball?


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## Gingerwitch (30 March 2020)

J&S said:



			Now wouldn't it be easy if we humans could be kept happy with a treat ball!
		
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Ohh and a water bucket of G&T just to encourage us to drink lol - maltesers and fruit pastels for my treat ball please


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## ester (30 March 2020)

ermm I'm not sure I wouldn't be happy with a treat ball.... 
more maltesers here please


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## Keith_Beef (30 March 2020)

I heard you like treat balls, so I put some treat balls in your treat ball



It comes in liquid form, too, in a vaguely ball-shaped bottle.


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## Winters100 (30 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hi again this I do not have an issue with, as everyone is being treated the same and has the same standard, what I cannot cope with is the two tier system of those that can and those that cannot.  I assume then that the horses that need special care the yo can put on full livery livery and stop anyone from visiting the yard. So everyone is in the same boat.

I would support this 100%.
		
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But I really don't get this Gingerwitch, because it seems that you are saying that you can accept the current restrictions even though they make you unhappy, as long as YO makes life more difficult for others so that they are unhappy too.  Remember that you don't know about their lives - some may not be able to afford full livery - even more so now.  I really think that you need to look around and realise that even in the current situation we in the western world are ALL incredibly lucky - including you - look at what is happening in India for example.

Today I was super happy to be given just 4 proper FFP3 face masks. They are supposed to be disposable, but I have learned about a way to clean them in the oven so that they can be re-used.  Seeing someone go every day to the emergency room, with no complaints and no proper equipment, makes me realise that I have absolutely 0 right to complain that I would like to play with my ponies, whatever others are doing.  Yesterday I asked if he was finding it hard. He told me that one of his friends who works in a different hospital had that day had to sedate a 16 year old girl to be put on a ventilator, she was terrified before the sedation, alone with only a doctor and nurse in protective gear around her and not knowing if she would ever wake up.  He told me that in this situation we have no right to be unhappy or weak - and really I think he is right.

I know it is hard, but really think about those worse off than you, not about the ones who are at the yard, because for sure we all still have good things in our lives.  People are dying, so whether or not someone else pays the same as us for their horses is not of any big concern.


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## Gingerwitch (30 March 2020)

Winters100 said:



			But I really don't get this Gingerwitch, because it seems that you are saying that you can accept the current restrictions even though they make you unhappy, as long as YO makes life more difficult for others so that they are unhappy too.
		
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No I am not saying I want everyone to be unhappy, I just want everyone to be being treated the same, nothing more and nothing less


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## Michen (30 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			No I am not saying I want everyone to be unhappy, I just want everyone to be being treated the same, nothing more and nothing less
		
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But people’s situations aren’t the same.


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## Gingerwitch (30 March 2020)

Michen said:



			But people’s situations aren’t the same.
		
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We all have horses - yes
We all keep them on the same yard - yes
I pay through the nose to have mine mucked out and fed each day - I am not allowed to see mine or ride them

Others pay for stable rent, and are allowed to go to the yard in a morning to muck out, turn out, then are allowed back on a night to bring in and ride

So your right peoples situations are not the same


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## Winters100 (30 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			No I am not saying I want everyone to be unhappy, I just want everyone to be being treated the same, nothing more and nothing less
		
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But how does that help you?  It does nothing but brings trouble to others, does not change your situation at all. Surely you don't care that much about others seeing their horses if they need to care for them?

You must accept that it makes no sense to allow a full livery on the yard at this time, so you would like everyone else to be forced to pay more and not go? Why?  Just to give yourself the satisfaction that they can't do something because you can't do it?  What if we said that no one who has a garden can use it because some people don't have gardens?  I am trying to understand you, but it makes no sense to me.


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## Caol Ila (30 March 2020)

Is it possible for you to change to DIY, Gingerwitch?


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## Gingerwitch (30 March 2020)

Winters100 said:



			But how does that help you?  It does nothing but brings trouble to others, does not change your situation at all. Surely you don't care that much about others seeing their horses if they need to care for them?

You must accept that it makes no sense to allow a full livery on the yard at this time, so you would like everyone else to be forced to pay more and not go? Why?  Just to give yourself the satisfaction that they can't do something because you can't do it?  What if we said that no one who has a garden can use it because some people don't have gardens?  I am trying to understand you, but it makes no sense to me.
		
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So you honestly think that they should be allowed to carry on as normal and even continue to ride and bath horses ? what makes that a necessity?  How do i know what cuts my horse has? if their shoes are coming loose how do i even know they are coming in at night, no one is telling us full liveries anything, do i go and buy a drone so i can fly it over the stables to see what is going on.


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## Gingerwitch (30 March 2020)

Caol Ila said:



			Is it possible for you to change to DIY, Gingerwitch?
		
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Wish I could but I work from 4am in a morning and some days I may still be there till 5 or 6pm depending on how hand over has gone, so need to have servicesr


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## EllenJay (30 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			So you honestly think that they should be allowed to carry on as normal and even continue to ride and bath horses ? what makes that a necessity?  How do i know what cuts my horse has? if their shoes are coming loose how do i even know they are coming in at night, no one is telling us full liveries anything, do i go and buy a drone so i can fly it over the stables to see what is going on.
		
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For goodness sake!  If you are not happy that you are being treated differently on your yard then take it up with the YO.
But generally, you know your horse is being looked after, (if you didn't think they were then you wouldn't have them on full livery), you know that you have to keep inside as much as possible to stop the transfer of the virus, and you know that people's lives are at risk - but this is still about you being treated "unfairly"!  I really want to say "grow up" but I'm sure someone will shout at me - so I won't


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## Winters100 (30 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			So you honestly think that they should be allowed to carry on as normal and even continue to ride and bath horses ? what makes that a necessity?  How do i know what cuts my horse has? if their shoes are coming loose how do i even know they are coming in at night, no one is telling us full liveries anything, do i go and buy a drone so i can fly it over the stables to see what is going on.
		
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Well this is a completely different issue to the 'fairness' one that you raised. 

In my opinion to keep within the spirit of the regulations people should be going to give essential daily care as quickly as possible, but to me this is to do with controlling the spread of the virus, not to do with fairness.

And again if you have concerns about the care that your horse is getting you need to raise them with the YO, but you said previously that you would be satisfied if everyone else had to go on full livery, and obviously this would not help in those concerns, indeed may make them worse with staff spread more thinly.

I can see that you are very stressed about this, but if you are concerned about your horse do raise it with the yard owner. If you were previously satisfied with the care then I am sure they can put your mind at rest without you needing to visit and put others at risk.  *Remember that the higher chance we have of being infected the more we must take care to stay away from other people or places where others will be.  *And forget about the whole 'fairness' thing - I am sure that if you think logically about this you will see that it is not relevant.  You would be quite within you rights to raise any infringements of the regulations with YO, but I would strongly advise against raising the 'fairness' part as I think that right now most people would dismiss it as envy.

Edited to add that when I decided not to visit the yard due to this situation I spoke with the owner and requested what additional services I needed. He was happy to accommodate. If you need some extra checks made why not just ask for them.


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## hopscotch bandit (30 March 2020)

Peregrine Falcon said:



			Oohh, now there's a thought....what would you like in your treat ball?
		
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Black pitted olives please


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## Lindylouanne (30 March 2020)

hopscotch bandit said:



			Black pitted olives please
		
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Oh no green stuffed with garlic please 🤣


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## ycbm (30 March 2020)

J&S said:



			Now wouldn't it be easy if we humans could be kept happy with a treat ball!
		
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Who said we cant? 🤣


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## Peregrine Falcon (30 March 2020)

Olives? Bleurghhhh! 😉

Would have to be orange creams for me. 😁


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## Winters100 (30 March 2020)

I would love a treat ball filled with porridge right now! I have had to really cut my calorie intake due to so much less exercise and I am so hungry! Definitely going to take some days to get used this this regime:/


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## SO1 (31 March 2020)

Does your full livery include exercise? I presume it does if the DIY's are allowed to exercise their horses & that whoever is exercising your horse would be checking them over for wounds, loose shoes etc. 

If full livery does not include exercise then I can understand that you would be frustrated that the DIY's can exercise their horse but you can't & your horse could get overweight/unfit whereas the DIY horses remain in good shape.

Perhaps the owner would rather the DIY's didnt come either but don't have the staffing capacity to put them on full livery. 

I agree it is not good customer service if the full liveries are not being communicated with properly during this time about what services are being done if different to normal, especially as it would reassure the full liveries. 

I think after the three weeks is up if there is a long extension of the restrictions, they are considering 6 months, then that is the time to discuss with YO long term options to see if a compromise can be made. There is a big difference between 3 weeks which most people can cope with & 6 months which most people would find incredibly challenging. 



Gingerwitch said:



			So you honestly think that they should be allowed to carry on as normal and even continue to ride and bath horses ? what makes that a necessity?  How do i know what cuts my horse has? if their shoes are coming loose how do i even know they are coming in at night, no one is telling us full liveries anything, do i go and buy a drone so i can fly it over the stables to see what is going on.
		
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## flying_high (31 March 2020)

hopscotch bandit said:



			Well I'm a limited company contractor and won't get a penny as the government has already said that you are not entitled to SSP unless you are an employee of your own limited company and that also applies to other statutory payments. Whilst you'd think that you would be an employee of your own company you are not.  If you have a controlling interest in the company, or are the sole shareholder or sole director then you are not an employee.  This is the way it was set up for me by the accountancy company so I can't get anything.  Fortunately I have savings although most of that is in a bond which is inaccesible until August   So I guess I won't be getting 80% or even 10% lol
......
		
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I thought this has since changed, and company directors can get the benefits? New change?


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## flying_high (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Wish I could but I work from 4am in a morning and some days I may still be there till 5 or 6pm depending on how hand over has gone, so need to have servicesr
		
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Gingerwitch I have a huge amount of sympathy. I have my horse on a yard that only offers full care livery. It is a set up that works for my horse. And I am still typically at the yard before and after work, as he has a complicated care and rehabilitation regime that I do myself. My yard is now shut/

I am lucky as my yard is fully staffed, and the staff are very good, and the standard of care is good. And my horse has more or less reached a rehab point where his feet and body should be okay with less assistance.

But if you are not confident in the ability of your yard to cover all your horse's needs, and if you are normally a very hands on owner, I can see it would be extremely frustrating.

Livery isn't equal, and different yards provide different levels of customer service.

I feel your frustration. I don't think the real issue is the two tier treatment of DIY and full livery. It is worry about the welfare of your horse whilst you cant oversee him, and lack of communication from the yard.


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## hopscotch bandit (31 March 2020)

flying_high said:



			I thought this has since changed, and company directors can get the benefits? New change?
		
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Oh, someone else has indicated something like this on another post.  I will dig deeper, thanks.


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## SpringArising (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			How do i know what cuts my horse has? if their shoes are coming loose how do i even know they are coming in at night, no one is telling us full liveries anything, do i go and buy a drone so i can fly it over the stables to see what is going on.
		
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That sounds like an issue with you not trusting your yard. The whole point of being on full livery is that you trust the yard to take adequate care of your horse for you.


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## Gingerwitch (31 March 2020)

SpringArising said:



			That sounds like an issue with you not trusting your yard. The whole point of being on full livery is that you trust the yard to take adequate care of your horse for you.
		
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I have never not had access to see my horses though, how does anyone know what is going on behind closed doors at the moment, yes i hear what you say but over the years i have seen all sorts, especially when owners have been on holiday, the horses have been skipped for 13 days and then fully mucked out on the last day, I have seen stable hands take clean water out of other horses stables to save them having to fill up and have seen DIY;s help themselves to other horses hays and feed and who can speak up ?  The horses cant pick the phone up and say "mum" someones nicked my hay again. I hasten to say that is not at this yard, but they have never had free range to do what they like and for us owners not to be dropping in.


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## Tiddlypom (31 March 2020)

GW, have you seen that happen at your current yard or was that at previous yards?


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## Dave's Mam (31 March 2020)

Could one of your yard friends not send you pics & updates on your pony?  That's how I am surviving at the moment.  I live for my little photo message to tell me he's fine.


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## Gingerwitch (31 March 2020)

Tiddlypom said:



			GW, have you seen that happen at your current yard or was that at previous yards?
		
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Hi Tiddlypom, no that has been on previous yards,one of the last yard I was at had promised me the earth, turn out every day, did not mind hay dunking, could access the yard anytime between 0600 and 2000 hours, the day I got their they miss sent a text meant between owner and manager saying to keep mine in for a few weeks to save the grass, and to give them some sed at the 5pm mark as Is said i I would be dropping in around half past 5.  I then had to book to see my horses, was not allowed to be on my own with them on the yard, we were their for 3 months before i could find another space, and then found out that even though daily turn out was promised they only went out if the ground was dry.  This meant they were in from October pretty much until April, this nearly killed me off and I was on the verge of selling up.

So whilst I have not had issues at current yard up to now, I am pretty stressed, especially as the DIY's are still being allowed up, it begs the question why? Is it because they are scimping on services or feed or bedding etc


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## Winters100 (31 March 2020)

Dave's Mam said:



			Could one of your yard friends not send you pics & updates on your pony?  That's how I am surviving at the moment.  I live for my little photo message to tell me he's fine.
		
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Me too! Really brightens my day  I also ask them to check how much hay they have and that there is water in the paddock just in case.

Today I was lucky enough to see them, albeit at a distance. I had to drop some food in to the yard, and had arranged to leave it in a dry place from where they can take it to the feed room in a few days time. I didn't want to go to their paddock because of the risks of touching anything (or indeed them), but a very kind groom fetched them while I was unloading and walked them up and down for me to see.  They look well and happy, not gaining weight, so I was very pleased


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## SpringArising (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			So whilst I have not had issues at current yard up to now, I am pretty stressed, especially as the DIY's are still being allowed up, it begs the question why? Is it because they are scimping on services or feed or bedding etc
		
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I understand why it's difficult for you. I also can't see mine at the moment and it's horrible. But it's not about being being tight and scrimping for those on DIY. It's about people genuinely not being able to afford it in most cases. I can afford full livery but I choose to be DIY because I know I would end up going every day to do things my way, which sort of defeats the purpose.


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## Gingerwitch (31 March 2020)

Dave's Mam said:



			Could one of your yard friends not send you pics & updates on your pony?  That's how I am surviving at the moment.  I live for my little photo message to tell me he's fine.
		
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Hi Daves Man, I don't really know anyone who is DIY on the yard as i pretty much keep myself to myself and only see them in passing, as not having to muck out or do waters or hay you don't tend to build up relationships except for a high and a bye.  The ones I hack out with are in the same boat as me as we are full liveries.


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## Dyllymoo (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			So whilst I have not had issues at current yard up to now, I am pretty stressed, especially as the DIY's are still being allowed up, it begs the question *why*? Is it because they are scimping on services or feed or bedding etc
		
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Because that has been the recommendation given by BHS in line with the Government guidelines (https://www.bhs.org.uk/advice-and-information/coronavirus-covid-19).

Taking out the fact that the DIY liveries are riding, they are sole carers for the animals.  As your horse is on full livery he/ she is cared for by the staff of the yard.

Unfortunately that is the black and white version.  Whether its fair or not, or whether you agree with it or not, its how it is.  I can imagine yards with mixed liveries is harder to manage than a yard that has all full livery or all diy.


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## Gingerwitch (31 March 2020)

SpringArising said:



			I understand why it's difficult for you. I also can't see mine at the moment and it's horrible. But it's not about being being tight and scrimping for those on DIY. It's about people genuinely not being able to afford it in most cases. I can afford full livery but I choose to be DIY because I know I would end up going every day to do things my way, which sort of defeats the purpose.
		
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Hi, no you have mis understood what i was saying - what I am asking is -are the Full Liverys being banned as the yard is scrimping on bedding, hay and feed for the full liveries ? not the DIY's scrimping.


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## ihatework (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hi, no you have mis understood what i was saying - what I am asking is -are the Full Liverys being banned as the yard is scrimping on bedding, hay and feed for the full liveries ? not the DIY's scrimping.
		
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It must be very stressful having so much distrust in your yard. In your shoes I think I’d try and find alternative yard that you do trust


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## Gingerwitch (31 March 2020)

Hi Ihatework, where money and care is concerned i distrust everyone.  Horses cannot speak, they cannot tell you what is or is not happening, when they are on Full Livery the yard is open and they have no idea when the owner will turn up.


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## be positive (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hi, no you have mis understood what i was saying - what I am asking is -are the Full Liverys being banned as the yard is scrimping on bedding, hay and feed for the full liveries ? not the DIY's scrimping.
		
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Turn this around and consider what the staff would be doing if they also had the DIY's to do each day they would be rushing about more than normal and things may be missed, shortcuts may be taken, assuming the yard is being run as normal, same staff, same income then why should the YO risk ruining a decent business by scrimping now, it should be easy enough to request a weekly report and photo of the horse without a rug on, if you think they are not trustworthy and that will be fixed then look for somewhere else and do them yourself.


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## SOS (31 March 2020)

I’d never keep my horses somewhere I didn’t trust the staff/YO. Having had mine on full livery for a long time I have seen some bad but mostly good. And the majority of the ‘bad’ was horses not being cared for to an owners standard I.e not changing rugs etc. So not huge welfare issues more personal preference.

Why would they be caring any differently to the horses now? I feel confident I trust my YO enough and pay a reasonable enough amount that corners don’t need to be cut. My YO is also proud of all their full liveries and wouldn’t like to see any horses coming out of all this anything but in good condition, well looked after and ready for the owner.


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## SpringArising (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hi, no you have mis understood what i was saying - what I am asking is -are the Full Liverys being banned as the yard is scrimping on bedding, hay and feed for the full liveries ? not the DIY's scrimping.
		
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Ah I see. I agree with IHW - I really think you need to find a yard you trust or learn how to trust that your horses aren't being abused or neglected. Those on full livery will have been banned as they're not the sole carer of the horse and already had a system in place which means they don't NEED to be at the stables.


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## sport horse (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hi Ihatework, where money and care is concerned i distrust everyone.  Horses cannot speak, they cannot tell you what is or is not happening, when they are on Full Livery the yard is open and they have no idea when the owner will turn up.
		
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As it seems you distrust everyone I think you would be better to find yourself a yard where you could be alone and just do your own horse. Your total distrust that runs throughout this thread is very sad - it seems to apply to multiple yards and maybe it comes over to those running the yards?  I would move somewhere and do them yourself even if this means turning out 24/7


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## Dave's Mam (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hi Daves Man, I don't really know anyone who is DIY on the yard as i pretty much keep myself to myself and only see them in passing, as not having to muck out or do waters or hay you don't tend to build up relationships except for a high and a bye.  The ones I hack out with are in the same boat as me as we are full liveries.
		
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We have a yard FB chat, and everyone posts a video as they walk round the fields, or sends a photo.  It's really great, could you reach out to someone to do that?


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## Winters100 (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			So whilst I have not had issues at current yard up to now, I am pretty stressed, especially as the DIY's are still being allowed up, it begs the question why? Is it because they are scimping on services or feed or bedding etc
		
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Why "especially as the DIYs are still being allowed up"?

I am sorry but you are making no sense.  First you say that it is only about fairness, and that if all owners had to go on full livery and were forbidden to see their horses then you would be happy. Now you say that you are worried about poor care. Which is it?  Surely if you are that worried you can ask one of the DIYs to take a look at your horse and to check if everything seems OK?  I understand that they are not your best friends, but I would hope that you would at least be on reasonable terms with most of them, and I believe that in the current situation people are very willing to help others.  Also you need to think about this calmly - why would a yard be suddenly neglecting your horse, particularly if other clients are around and might notice?

I really don't understand how you can ask why this is happening. In your shoes I would not be going to the yard anyway out of concern for others, and I would be super happy that the yard was taking steps to limit the number of people there, while still having the DIYs do their own horses so that those on full livery can enjoy the same quality service / staffing levels that they are used to. * If you are worried about the level of care now please think about how it will be if the yard staff fall ill with this, because I can tell you that this thought terrifies me, and I would do anything to avoid it. * If this happens no-one will be visiting, and your horse will most likely get nothing beyond the most basic level of care.

If you were previously going regularly and doing lots of 'extra' things why not have a think about which of these are essential and then contact the yard owner to ask if they can be done. You will need to be realistic in this case, and ask only for those things that you feel are truly necessary, this is what I did and YO gladly accommodated me.  I also like to check things, but other liveries are happy to send me photos and to confirm that all is as it should be.  These rules are there because we are in a crisis at present and have been asked to stay home as much as possible and to avoid all unnecessary contact.  Whichever way you look at it visiting a horse which is on full livery is not a necessary activity so you should not anyway be doing it even if the YO permitted such visits.


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## muddy_grey (31 March 2020)

My yard is a full livery yard and is on lockdown.  I am very lucky that I work there 3 days a week so still get to see my horse, but I only go down those days and am not riding.  It isn't just about the spread of the virus it is also about non-essential travel and the strain on the NHS.  I think you need to speak to your YO about the communication.  Mine has been brilliant and has been sending regular updates and pictures to all the owners and sharing in the group chat.  Also the horses are on what some would be considered part livery (no riding or grooming) but they are all having regular hoof picking, leg checks and rugs off.  I think you might feel better with regular updates.

It is such a crazy situation and we need to do all we can and for some of us that does mean not seeing our horses.


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## Gingerwitch (31 March 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Why "especially as the DIYs are still being allowed up"?

I am sorry but you are making no sense.  First you say that it is only about fairness, and that if all owners had to go on full livery and were forbidden to see their horses then you would be happy. Now you say that you are worried about poor care. Which is it?  Surely if you are that worried you can ask one of the DIYs to take a look at your horse and to check if everything seems OK?  I understand that they are not your best friends, but I would hope that you would at least be on reasonable terms with most of them, and I believe that in the current situation people are very willing to help others.  Also you need to think about this calmly - why would a yard be suddenly neglecting your horse, particularly if other clients are around and might notice?

I really don't understand how you can ask why this is happening. In your shoes I would not be going to the yard anyway out of concern for others, and I would be super happy that the yard was taking steps to limit the number of people there, while still having the DIYs do their own horses so that those on full livery can enjoy the same quality service / staffing levels that they are used to. * If you are worried about the level of care now please think about how it will be if the yard staff fall ill with this, because I can tell you that this thought terrifies me, and I would do anything to avoid it. * If this happens no-one will be visiting, and your horse will most likely get nothing beyond the most basic level of care.

If you were previously going regularly and doing lots of 'extra' things why not have a think about which of these are essential and then contact the yard owner to ask if they can be done. You will need to be realistic in this case, and ask only for those things that you feel are truly necessary, this is what I did and YO gladly accommodated me.  I also like to check things, but other liveries are happy to send me photos and to confirm that all is as it should be.  These rules are there because we are in a crisis at present and have been asked to stay home as much as possible and to avoid all unnecessary contact.  Whichever way you look at it visiting a horse which is on full livery is not a necessary activity so you should not anyway be doing it even if the YO permitted such visits.
		
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Hey Mrs holier than thou, you need to practice what you are so good at preaching and ramming down others throats.

Who went on an uncessary journey today to buy horse feed and then OMG you actually took it to the yard.  Surley your horse would not have died without it ? cannot it eat just hay ?  How far was your uncessary journey ? 1 mile, 2 or 3 oh and then not satisfied with getting the horse feed you then drove it to the yard and then had them fetch it in  so you could see him  - really !! After the way you are screaming on the other thread that someone was stupid and needs an education because the 2 mtr distance is nothing, so did you take your binoculars to see yours ?  How dare you keep berating everyone that does not agree with your zealot view.  So what happened to your doing anything to avoid it ?

Please note i have not fallen to your level of rudeness i.e. using bold letters to highlight your hollier than than opinions that you cannot even follow youself.


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## Bernster (31 March 2020)

Umm, I don’t think we’re at the stage of saying essential travel/care is only that which would otherwise = death? 😱. Lawks, we’re really in trouble now then. Although on a serious note, we are actually talking about avoiding unnecessary death here, and that’s pretty sobering, I think we can all agree on that.


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## tristar (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I have never not had access to see my horses though, how does anyone know what is going on behind closed doors at the moment, yes i hear what you say but over the years i have seen all sorts, especially when owners have been on holiday, the horses have been skipped for 13 days and then fully mucked out on the last day, I have seen stable hands take clean water out of other horses stables to save them having to fill up and have seen DIY;s help themselves to other horses hays and feed and who can speak up ?  The horses cant pick the phone up and say "mum" someones nicked my hay again. I hasten to say that is not at this yard, but they have never had free range to do what they like and for us owners not to be dropping in.
		
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my heart goes out to you, its truly a nightmare

livery yards are places for the most part i hate, i love the good ones but there is not many!


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## Winters100 (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hey Mrs holier than thou, you need to practice what you are so good at preaching and ramming down others throats.

Who went on an uncessary journey today to buy horse feed and then OMG you actually took it to the yard.  Surley your horse would not have died without it ? cannot it eat just hay ?  How far was your uncessary journey ? 1 mile, 2 or 3 oh and then not satisfied with getting the horse feed you then drove it to the yard and then had them fetch it in  so you could see him  - really !! After the way you are screaming on the other thread that someone was stupid and needs an education because the 2 mtr distance is nothing, so did you take your binoculars to see yours ?  How dare you keep berating everyone that does not agree with your zealot view.  So what happened to your doing anything to avoid it ?

Please note i have not fallen to your level of rudeness i.e. using bold letters to highlight your hollier than than opinions that you cannot even follow youself.
		
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Gingerwitch, firstly I am not being 'holier than thou', simply saying that we must all do our best in these circumstances.  Your horse is on full livery, it has care, therefore you do not need to visit.  I am in the same situation that I also do not need to visit other than seeing that there are adequate supplies - so I do not do so.

In answer to your questions:

No, the food could not be delivered directly to the stable, because it came with a delivery of dog food to my house some time ago.  I drove it a few km to the stable, and they brought the horses for me to see without my request, but yes, I was happy that they were kind enough to do that.

No, the horses cannot just eat hay. Arranging feed to the horses is necessary and permitted, and I took additional measures above those required to see that I was not anywhere near anyone and that the food was left in a place that it does not need to be handled for some days.

I have no problem to see my horses across the yard at a distance of about 25m and do not require any additional aids for this.

It is you who simply refuses to understand that _wanting_ to visit your full livery horse is not the same as _needing_ to visit your DIY horse.  Then you somehow muddy the waters saying that you don't mind that you can't visit as long as no one else can.

You say that the YO does not communicate with you, but honestly she might be finding it very difficult to speak with you when it seems that all that will satisfy you is to be allowed to visit the yard, which is clearly not sensible at the moment.

I am sorry that you are so stressed by this, but please take a step back and consider the position of the owner. She has a yard and possibly staff to protect.  She needs to limit the number of people visiting and to maintain a service to full liveries.  Not seeing our horses for a while is not the worst thing that will ever happen to us, so we need to compromise and think of others.


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## southerncomfort (31 March 2020)

I do wish certain posters would quit with the bold and caps lock. 

🙄


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## Winters100 (31 March 2020)

southerncomfort said:



			I do wish certain posters would quit with the bold and caps lock.

🙄
		
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If you are referring to me I am sorry if it offends - I always thought it was a useful way to emphasise key points - in fact I am constantly asking colleagues to please use this tool as it helps me to understand which points they feel are the most pertinent. But if it offends point taken and I will try not to do it from here in


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## Upthecreek (31 March 2020)

I really feel for anyone that can’t see their horses at the moment, myself included. I won’t be seeing mine for 12 weeks at least. It’s hard to ‘let go’ and entrust their care completely to someone else and also emotionally upsetting because they are a huge part of ‘normal life’ which is gone. I can’t help with your fairness issue Gingerwitch, but what I would say is this; you are paying for a service and you should therefore ensure you are getting what you are paying for. Speak to the Yard Owner about the routine you would like for your horse and anything particular you would like done or any specific requirements your horse has. Ask for updates on how your horse is, ask if he/she is being groomed, feet picked out, rugs changed etc. If you don’t trust they are telling you the truth you are at the wrong yard.


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## EllenJay (31 March 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Gingerwitch, firstly I am not being 'holier than thou', simply saying that we must all do our best in these circumstances.  Your horse is on full livery, it has care, therefore you do not need to visit.  I am in the same situation that I also do not need to visit other than seeing that there are adequate supplies - so I do not do so.

In answer to your questions:

No, the food could not be delivered directly to the stable, because it came with a delivery of dog food to my house some time ago.  I drove it a few km to the stable, and they brought the horses for me to see without my request, but yes, I was happy that they were kind enough to do that.

No, the horses cannot just eat hay. Arranging feed to the horses is necessary and permitted, and I took additional measures above those required to see that I was not anywhere near anyone and that the food was left in a place that it does not need to be handled for some days.

I have no problem to see my horses across the yard at a distance of about 25m and do not require any additional aids for this.

It is you who simply refuses to understand that _wanting_ to visit your full livery horse is not the same as _needing_ to visit your DIY horse.  Then you somehow muddy the waters saying that you don't mind that you can't visit as long as no one else can.

You say that the YO does not communicate with you, but honestly she might be finding it very difficult to speak with you when it seems that all that will satisfy you is to be allowed to visit the yard, which is clearly not sensible at the moment.

I am sorry that you are so stressed by this, but please take a step back and consider the position of the owner. She has a yard and possibly staff to protect.  She needs to limit the number of people visiting and to maintain a service to full liveries.  Not seeing our horses for a while is not the worst thing that will ever happen to us, so we need to compromise and think of others.
		
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What a polite and we'll reasoned answer.


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## JJS (31 March 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hey Mrs holier than thou, you need to practice what you are so good at preaching and ramming down others throats.

Who went on an uncessary journey today to buy horse feed and then OMG you actually took it to the yard.  Surley your horse would not have died without it ? cannot it eat just hay ?  How far was your uncessary journey ? 1 mile, 2 or 3 oh and then not satisfied with getting the horse feed you then drove it to the yard and then had them fetch it in  so you could see him  - really !! After the way you are screaming on the other thread that someone was stupid and needs an education because the 2 mtr distance is nothing, so did you take your binoculars to see yours ?  How dare you keep berating everyone that does not agree with your zealot view.  So what happened to your doing anything to avoid it ?

Please note i have not fallen to your level of rudeness i.e. using bold letters to highlight your hollier than than opinions that you cannot even follow youself.
		
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I definitely think you’ve descended into rudeness now. You don’t like what you’re (rightly) being told, so you’ve started to insult other people and accuse them of being ‘holier than thou’.

In all honesty, GW, you sound like a bratty teenager moaning about how unfair your life is, while also calling DIY liveries as a whole cheapskates, which is pretty offensive. No, I couldn’t afford to have all three of mine on full livery, yet they receive the best care and I always have backups in place in case they need a vet. That being said, there’s no way I could stump up for three weeks of full livery for all three, nor is it on offer even if I could, but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t make me a bad owner 🤷🏻‍♀️

To put it bluntly, the treatment that DIYs and full liveries receive has never been the same, but it’s apparent that this is only bothering you now that you feel like you’re getting the short end of the stick. Yes, it’s rubbish that you can’t see your horse, but so is the fact I won’t be able to see my boyfriend until all of this is over. No one likes it, no one is enjoying it, but at least you’ve not lost a loved one yet, as many will. I think you need to put things into perspective and realise it could be infinitely worse.


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## Chinchilla (31 March 2020)

southerncomfort said:



			I do wish certain posters would quit with the bold and caps lock.

🙄
		
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Sorry 😬 I wasn't trying to be rude and I'm really sorry if it came across that way if you're meaning me.


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## Dave's Mam (31 March 2020)

JJS said:



			I definitely think you’ve descended into rudeness now. You don’t like what you’re (rightly) being told, so you’ve started to insult other people and accuse them of being ‘holier than thou’.

In all honesty, GW, you sound like a bratty teenager moaning about how unfair your life is, while also calling DIY liveries as a whole cheapskates, which is pretty offensive. No, I couldn’t afford to have all three of mine on full livery, yet they receive the best care and I always have backups in place in case they need a vet. That being said, there’s no way I could stump up for three weeks of full livery for all three, nor is it on offer even if I could, but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t make me a bad owner 🤷🏻‍♀️

To put it bluntly, the treatment that DIYs and full liveries receive has never been the same, but it’s apparent that this is only bothering you now that you feel like you’re getting the short end of the stick. Yes, it’s rubbish that you can’t see your horse, but so is the fact I won’t be able to see my boyfriend until all of this is over. No one likes it, no one is enjoying it, but at least you’ve not lost a loved one yet, as many will. I think you need to put things into perspective and realise it could be infinitely worse.
		
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Perfectly put.


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## SO1 (31 March 2020)

GW - the only person who can answer the question as to why the full liveries are not allowed on the yard whilst the DIY's are allowed to continue as normal is your YO. You also have every right to feel sad about missing your horse or worried about it welfare if you don't trust the yard.

What I would say is that the virus can be passed on through touching surfaces including fur. So if perhaps like me you like to give your horse a kiss or a cuddle then the virus could get on to your horses fur and then the staff who looks after the horse might touch your horse and would be at risk of getting the virus.  You may have really good hygiene and wash your hands before touching your horse and not get close enough to breathe on the your horse or the head collars rugs etc but others may not be so responsible.

The YO and staff do not need to touch the DIY horses or their rugs head collars etc so there is less risk of them getting the virus from touching surfaces as there will be less shared surfaces to touch. With the full liveries there is more risk of spreading the virus as the staff and the owners will be touching the horses, rugs, and other things like headcollars and lead rope and possibly grooming kit and tack.

It is pretty much impossible to look after a horse and keep 2 meters away from it. So say a livery has the virus but is asymptomatic and they get close enough to breathe on the horse and some virus gets on to the rug. A member of yard staff changes the rug or checks it and they get virus on to their hands they then go and turn out another full liveries horse the virus gets on the lead rope, that owner of the horse touches lead rope they get the virus on them. Unless the staff are washing their hands before touching each horse they could spread the virus on to other horses and the owners could pick it up and the virus and touch things and pass it on. With the DIY's there is less risk as they are the only person touching the horse and its stuff.


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## Leo Walker (31 March 2020)

JJS said:



			I definitely think you’ve descended into rudeness now. You don’t like what you’re (rightly) being told, so you’ve started to insult other people and accuse them of being ‘holier than thou’.

In all honesty, GW, you sound like a bratty teenager moaning about how unfair your life is, while also calling DIY liveries as a whole cheapskates, which is pretty offensive. No, I couldn’t afford to have all three of mine on full livery, yet they receive the best care and I always have backups in place in case they need a vet. That being said, there’s no way I could stump up for three weeks of full livery for all three, nor is it on offer even if I could, but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t make me a bad owner 🤷🏻‍♀️

To put it bluntly, the treatment that DIYs and full liveries receive has never been the same, but it’s apparent that this is only bothering you now that you feel like you’re getting the short end of the stick. Yes, it’s rubbish that you can’t see your horse, but so is the fact I won’t be able to see my boyfriend until all of this is over. No one likes it, no one is enjoying it, but at least you’ve not lost a loved one yet, as many will. I think you need to put things into perspective and realise it could be infinitely worse.
		
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Indeed! Its fine to have a moan every now and again, but you've gone way past that now. If this is all you have to worry about then count yourself lucky.

It's not fair that I have a shattered spine, neuropathy, type 1 diabetes and that at some point I will go blind and that's just the big issues. Its esp not fair that looking after a horse is at least twice as hard and twice as expensive for me as an able bodied person. And it is not even remotely fair that I have a limited time left owning horses and this is taking a significant amount of that time away at a time when my health is as good as it will ever get. 

If I sat and dwelled on that I would go mad with frustration and grief. Life is just not fair, not in the slightest.


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## Nasicus (31 March 2020)

JJS said:



			I definitely think you’ve descended into rudeness now. You don’t like what you’re (rightly) being told, so you’ve started to insult other people and accuse them of being ‘holier than thou’.

In all honesty, GW, you sound like a bratty teenager moaning about how unfair your life is, while also calling DIY liveries as a whole cheapskates, which is pretty offensive. No, I couldn’t afford to have all three of mine on full livery, yet they receive the best care and I always have backups in place in case they need a vet. That being said, there’s no way I could stump up for three weeks of full livery for all three, nor is it on offer even if I could, but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t make me a bad owner 🤷🏻‍♀️

To put it bluntly, the treatment that DIYs and full liveries receive has never been the same, but it’s apparent that this is only bothering you now that you feel like you’re getting the short end of the stick. Yes, it’s rubbish that you can’t see your horse, but so is the fact I won’t be able to see my boyfriend until all of this is over. No one likes it, no one is enjoying it, but at least you’ve not lost a loved one yet, as many will. I think you need to put things into perspective and realise it could be infinitely worse.
		
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I suppose her YO could always put the poor, pitiful DIYs on full livery at no extra cost, so that they too wouldn't be able to see their horses. Bet she'd complain about that a bit more...


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## Michen (31 March 2020)

Deleted as just not worth the argument.


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## fredflop (31 March 2020)

I was thinking the point is that full livery not allowed at yard (fair enough as that’s the governments rules), and can’t ride, whereas the DIY’ers have been allowed to ride


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## sport horse (1 April 2020)

Life is not fair. Some people are not getting Coronavirus while others are and many are even dying. All you can do is publicy moan that you cannot see your horse. Get over yourself.


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## lme (1 April 2020)

Our horses are on full livery and we completely trust the yard to care for them. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t keep them there.  The yard has now closed to liveries but we had (in any case) stopped visiting before the closure as it seemed the correct thing to do. In the current circumstances, riding hoses who will be perfectly happy having a break seems an unnecessary risk.


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## Gingerwitch (1 April 2020)

Moving my horses tomorrow, current livery yard is now back tracking on banning FL's on the yard, especially as I have just pointed out that  the measures are pretty daft as all the DIY mares are in the same field as the FL mares and same for the geldings so all an sundry are using the same gates and chains.  Everyone shares the yard wheelbarrows and muck heap fork.  I also asked what was happening over the bank holdiay, and she has suddenly realised that she cannot provide care over the bank holiday weekend so suggested we would be allowed to do them on the Friday, Sat, Sun and Monday but then we would be banned again.


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## indie1282 (1 April 2020)

fredflop said:



			I was thinking the point is that full livery not allowed at yard (fair enough as that’s the governments rules), and can’t ride, whereas the DIY’ers have been allowed to ride
		
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That's what I thought GW meant too, which tbf is not really on.

Also the fact that the DIY deliveries are up there for hours bathing the horses is not on imo, its not really essential horse care unless they need to be bathed for medical reasons.


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## hopscotch bandit (1 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I also asked what was happening over the bank holdiay, and she has suddenly realised that she cannot provide care over the bank holiday weekend so suggested we would be allowed to do them on the Friday, Sat, Sun and Monday but then we would be banned again.
		
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Hilarious


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## sarahann1 (1 April 2020)

sport horse said:



			Life is not fair. Some people are not getting Coronavirus while others are and many are even dying. All you can do is publicy moan that you cannot see your horse. Get over yourself.
		
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You’re right I am moaning because my horse is a large part of my life and she helps keep my metal health on the right side of throwing myself off a bridge/overdose. I’ve never had to use my prescribed diazepam until this happened, I’m using it now and worried about how I’m going to get more to keep me on the level. 

So maybe I should just ‘get over myself’ but that’s significantly easier said than done when your mental health is already on a shoogly wicket. 

What ever happened to #bekind btw??


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## Tiddlypom (1 April 2020)

Gw, you did well to find another yard to take them during the current lockdown. The last thing most yards want now is extra comings and goings.


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## sport horse (1 April 2020)

sarahann1 said:



			You’re right I am moaning because my horse is a large part of my life and she helps keep my metal health on the right side of throwing myself off a bridge/overdose. I’ve never had to use my prescribed diazepam until this happened, I’m using it now and worried about how I’m going to get more to keep me on the level.

So maybe I should just ‘get over myself’ but that’s significantly easier said than done when your mental health is already on a shoogly wicket.

What ever happened to #bekind btw??
		
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I am sorry that you think my comments were not kind. I am sorry also that you  suffer with mental health issues - believe you me I do understand. However I understand that those in the NHS are currently struggling more than most, working under extremely difficult conditions, staring death in the face on every shift and I do find it hard to sympathise overly with the OP who is jealous of DIY liveries having more access to their horses than she does. Somehow it seems to me to be so minor at this time as to be insulting to keep going on about it.

GW is now moving her horse - I hope the next yard will fulfill her dreams and that she will not need to publicly post her complaints. We shall see.


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## ester (1 April 2020)

GW was not the OP, Sarahann was.


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## DressageCob (1 April 2020)

It's a hard one. On some interpretations, and certainly on an earlier version of the government guidance, the impression was that even on livery you can go and see to your horse. Of course, it was then for the individual yard to determine their own rules. 

It's a shame some aren't fortunate enough to trust the people who work at or run their yards. I know with absolute certainty that should anything happen to me my boys are in the best of hands.


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## Muddywellies (2 April 2020)

I have a fairly unpopular opinion on this.   I don't see why yards are closed?    We all know how to physically distance ourselves from others, with the plethora of government advice available.  Many large organisations are still working - I popped into the office the other day and whilst it was quiet, there was a team of people sat at their usual bank of desks, working (I would guess, slightly closer than 2m apart).   We are still going to the supermarket, petrol station etc and are all taking the advised precautions.  So why can't we just do the same at the yard?   Stay apart, and wash wash wash those hands?    Luckily there are absolutely no restrictions at my yard. We are distancing ourselves as per government advice. We all have our own mucking out equipment and I expect using hand wipes when we get in the car (I do)     it's only a small yard which obv makes it easier - I expect larger yards may be trickier, but I just feel banning people from their horses is a step too far.  Maybe limiting visits from owners who are already on full livery as I guess this could be deemed as unnecessary travel, but enforcing full livery on DIY yards is a step too far. If that happened to me it would bankrupt me!   And my horse is high maintence on three medications and simply couldn't be turned out 24/7 without having her meds administered.


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## Caol Ila (2 April 2020)

A friend of mine has been banned from her yard. All liveries at said yard are on now full livery whether they like it or not, and if horses need extra care like medication that owners would normally provide, YO is charging them £20 per week for the privilege. 

I agree with Muddywellies. So long as a barn can maintain biosecurity and social distancing, I don't think people should be banned from their horses. It's a lot safer than the supermarket.  And we don't know how long this will go on for. Are yards going to ban owners from seeing their horses for three months?  Six months?  There will be a lot of abandoned horses and welfare issues.


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## Tiddlypom (2 April 2020)

Muddywellies said:



			We are still going to the supermarket, petrol station etc and are all taking the advised precautions. So why can't we just do the same at the yard? Stay apart, and wash wash wash those hands?
		
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Unfortunately while many of us are indeed taking the advised precautions, far too many individuals are just not bothering to do so.

So that is why many yard owners are understandably being ultra cautious and reducing visits to a minimum. It’s easier than standing over every livery ensuring that they are complying with good practice at all times.


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## SO1 (2 April 2020)

I think the idea is for people to stay at home as much as possible to restrict the transmission of the virus.

We need to think carefully about those who are putting their lives at risk who are working with 1000's of infected patients.

People are not perfect, mistakes will be made with handwashing, people will touch their faces without washing their hands, asymptomatic people breathe may put virus on surfaces others may touch. The less people are out the less likely people are to come in contact with the virus & spread it or catch it.

If it was adults only dying & being affected then maybe it is up to us what risks we as individuals feel comfortable taking & that includes YO who may scared of getting virus. Different people have different attitudes to the same level of risk. Can you blame a YO for not wanting lots of people on their yard touching things which they may also touch.

A child has now died in intensive care without family being able to be with him. People will start thinking differently if more children die. I don't blame YO's especially those with children or living with vulnerable or elderly people for wanting to restrict the amount of people on yards & the amount of time they are there to reduce the risk.

Put yourself in the position of the YO if someone said to you the less people that come on to this yard the less likely you & those you live with are to die of a highly contagious virus wouldn't you be tempted to want to restrict access to protect yourself?



Muddywellies said:



			I have a fairly unpopular opinion on this.   I don't see why yards are closed?    We all know how to physically distance ourselves from others, with the plethora of government advice available.  Many large organisations are still working - I popped into the office the other day and whilst it was quiet, there was a team of people sat at their usual bank of desks, working (I would guess, slightly closer than 2m apart).   We are still going to the supermarket, petrol station etc and are all taking the advised precautions.  So why can't we just do the same at the yard?   Stay apart, and wash wash wash those hands?    Luckily there are absolutely no restrictions at my yard. We are distancing ourselves as per government advice. We all have our own mucking out equipment and I expect using hand wipes when we get in the car (I do)     it's only a small yard which obv makes it easier - I expect larger yards may be trickier, but I just feel banning people from their horses is a step too far.  Maybe limiting visits from owners who are already on full livery as I guess this could be deemed as unnecessary travel, but enforcing full livery on DIY yards is a step too far. If that happened to me it would bankrupt me!   And my horse is high maintence on three medications and simply couldn't be turned out 24/7 without having her meds administered.
		
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## Michen (2 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			I think the idea is for people to stay at home as much as possible to restrict the transmission of the virus.

We need to think carefully about those who are putting their lives at risk who are working with 1000's of infected patients.

People are not perfect, mistakes will be made with handwashing, people will touch their faces without washing their hands, asymptomatic people breathe may put virus on surfaces others may touch. The less people are out the less likely people are to come in contact with the virus & spread it or catch it.

If it was adults only dying & being affected then maybe it is up to us what risks we as individuals feel comfortable taking & that includes YO who may scared of getting virus. Different people have different attitudes to the same level of risk. Can you blame a YO for not wanting lots of people on their yard touching things which they may also touch.

A child has now died in intensive care without family being able to be with him. People will start thinking differently if more children die. I don't blame YO's especially those with children or living with vulnerable or elderly people for wanting to restrict the amount of people on yards & the amount of time they are there to reduce the risk.

Put yourself in the position of the YO if someone said to you the less people that come on to this yard the less likely you & those you live with are to die of a highly contagious virus wouldn't you be tempted to want to restrict access to protect yourself?
		
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But that isn't the wording from the government or the reasoning behind the lockdown. SLOW the spread of the virus to protect the NHS. Slow, not stop. Control it. We will never stop it going through the population, the minute movement is allowed again it'll come back.


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## Winters100 (2 April 2020)

Caol Ila said:



			A friend of mine has been banned from her yard. All liveries at said yard are on now full livery whether they like it or not, and if horses need extra care like medication that owners would normally provide, YO is charging them £20 per week for the privilege. 

I agree with Muddywellies. So long as a barn can maintain biosecurity and social distancing, I don't think people should be banned from their horses. It's a lot safer than the supermarket.  And we don't know how long this will go on for. Are yards going to ban owners from seeing their horses for three months?  Six months?  There will be a lot of abandoned horses and welfare issues.
		
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I appreciate that it is difficult, but there is a big difference between a _necessary_ trip to the shop and an _unnecessary_ trip to visit your horse who could otherwise be taken care of by onsite staff.  Of course if the yard is unable to provide care then the owner has to do it, but the risk is minimised if less people go.

Ultimately there is no point people in any country doing things like standing outside their houses giving applause for medical professionals if they are not first willing to follow the necessary steps to allow them to do their jobs.  We all know by now that the less we are outside our homes the better. We do not know how long it will go on for, but we do know that the more the spread is suppressed the shorter the lockdown is likely to be.  This is not going away, but right now the NHS needs time to prepare, and it needs the rate of growth to slow dramatically.  We slow this by carrying on with _necessary_ tasks, such as shopping or giving care to your horse where no onsite care is available, and stopping _unnecessary_ tasks such as meeting friends or visiting your horse who can be given the basic necessary care by people already at the yard.

Having horses does not make us exceptions. Sure we need to find a way that they can be given appropriate care, but that is it.  Some people will get to see their horses, some (like me) will not.  But if not seeing our horses for a while is the worst thing we suffer through this we must count ourselves _extremely_ fortunate.


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

QUOTE="Tiddlypom, post: 14236210, member: 106813"]Gw, you did well to find another yard to take them during the current lockdown. The last thing most yards want now is extra comings and goings.[/QUOTE]

Hi Tiddlypom, went back to a previous yard, which I only moved from to stop a 50 mile round trip, but needs must.

Amazing, bed was horrific and considering I was at the yard at 8 this morning, and they were supposed to have been done yesterday, it was impossible for that much muck to have accumulated overnight unless the horses had a poo party in my stable. The water buckets were disgusting and smelt and from the rub on the horse the rug had obviously not been taken off for days.  YO was quite upset that I was leaving as I was one of her good payers and asked me how she was supposed to pay her staff, as I have always been an extra month in advance which i would normally have paid yesterday, and she owes me my deposit back.  Oh well and before some of you have a pop, I do not think I have ever seen as many folk on that yard, I counted more people than horses whilst i was loading up, including some having a cup of tea in a group, so so much for keeping the numbers down on the yard.


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## stormox (2 April 2020)

I dont really think people should blame the YOs, the government has made the guidelines and they are trying to implement them the best they can. 
Maybe our horses wont be done exactly as we would like, but this is a difficult situation and one where if we ALL do our utmost to keep this disease at bay the sooner it will be under control and the sooner the measures will be relaxed.


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## Amymay (2 April 2020)

stormox said:



			I dont really think people should blame the YOs, the government has made the guidelines and they are trying to implement them the best they can.
Maybe our horses wont be done exactly as we would like, but this is a difficult situation and one where if we ALL do our utmost to keep this disease at bay the sooner it will be under control and the sooner the measures will be relaxed.
		
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I agree, to a degree. However I think some will see this as an excellent money making exercise


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## Muddywellies (2 April 2020)

Michen said:



			But that isn't the wording from the government or the reasoning behind the lockdown. SLOW the spread of the virus to protect the NHS. Slow, not stop. Control it. We will never stop it going through the population, the minute movement is allowed again it'll come back.
		
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And we need some people to catch it and recover, to then build immunity as a nation.   It'll be very intetesting when we get the antibodies test.


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## Muddywellies (2 April 2020)

Amymay said:



			I agree, to a degree. However I think some will see this as an excellent money making exercise
		
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Whilst each and every one of us has a part to play in this, the biggest problem is the highly populated areas (all those people cramming onto the tube last week!). Stopping country folk seeing their ponies really isn't going to massively add to the spread of CV if everyone complies with distancing advice.


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## hopscotch bandit (2 April 2020)

stormox said:



			I dont really think people should blame the YOs, the government has made the guidelines and they are trying to implement them the best they can.
Maybe our horses wont be done exactly as we would like, but this is a difficult situation and one where if we ALL do our utmost to keep this disease at bay the sooner it will be under control and the sooner the measures will be relaxed.
		
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This.  Totally agree.

Our YO has gone out of her way to help us, I know it's proper stressed me out with the hour limit.  But they have to abide by rules set by BEF, BHS, FEI which is fed to them from government.

As for those that are saying that its lucrative for YO's at the moment.  I think the present situation will help a lot of yards who may be struggling with making a living and coming out of the year with a profit but its only fair I guess.  They offer a service and that's what's important and there are ways of horse owners cutting down on expenses, I'm looking at cutting down on my supplements, bedding and the amount of hay I give my horse now they are out at grass more.

It's very difficult times ahead, some people can't see further than the end of their noses.  This country will take decades to recover and things won't be the same again for a long, long time, if ever. I suppose the more we accept this now, the easier it will be in the long run.

I think large companies will take advantage, there's already a suggestion that I won't be taken back on my original rate of pay by the firm I'm temping for when this thing is over.  I can see this happening all over. Businesses have had to furlough people so need to make money on the back of this.


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## milliepops (2 April 2020)

Amymay said:



			I agree, to a degree. However I think some will see this as an excellent money making exercise
		
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My YO told me yesterday that he's eligible for the funding for the self employed. I was half expecting him to chuck us all out so he could have an easy few months  (ARGHHH joke in case anyone starts correcting the whys and wherefores )


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## Berpisc (2 April 2020)

Amymay said:



			I agree, to a degree. However I think some will see this as an excellent money making exercise
		
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Which might backfire on them if someone on DIY is suddenly expected to find extra for full livery. Especially if their employment situation has changed unexpectedly.
There are no easy answers to all this and I think different livery setups will have different pressures.


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

Amymay said:



			I agree, to a degree. However I think s
		
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It is really sad, but its amazing how your sixth sense kicks in when the facts are not appearing to stack up.

New yard, very much wanting to keep everything under control, have to use disposable gloves, tack room is off limits currently, and you are assigned a time you are allowed on the yard.  All liveries regardless of being full or part or DIY are only allowed to visit once per day, and only the person doing the horse is allowed on site, no partners, friends etc.
If the rule is not obeyed then the horse either has to be removed or be put on full livery with no visiting rights unless supervised by the YO


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## teapot (2 April 2020)

Perhaps yard owners are limiting access to reduce risk to their staff or themselves? Spare a thought for the equestrian centres that have had to completetly shut down. This could completely change the industry as we know it


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

Berpisc said:



			Which might backfire on them if someone on DIY is suddenly expected to find extra for full livery. Especially if their employment situation has changed unexpectedly.
There are no easy answers to all this and I think different livery setups will have different pressures.
		
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Hi Berpisc, but they also have to consider how they are treating the Full Liveries as well as its easier to drop down in a livery package which opens up many more yards after we get through this.


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

teapot said:



			Perhaps yard owners are limiting access to reduce risk to their staff or themselves? Spare a thought for the equestrian centres that have had to completetly shut down. This could completely change the industry as we know it 

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Teapot - everything is going to change as we know it, and whilst i understand some of your thoughts to have one set of folk spending hours at the yard and another group being banned at the same yard, in the same barns, using the same fields and muck fork and being allowed to ride out, it does not make sense, unless they are hiding something.  It was obvious after my arriving on the yard to day that basic care in the terms of the horse is still alive were just about being met, a dirty bed is one thing, water buckets that had rings round and dirty yellow water in them and a rubbed wither and clots of hair does not mean they were getting basic care, which i was still paying full whack for.  No wonder they do not want the FL's on the yard.  I have posted pictures to my friends on the full livery yard and a few rather difficult questions are being asked by many of them.

The yard still has full staff, so what was the excuse ?


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## Muddywellies (2 April 2020)

If I was a yard owner, I would ask people to wash their hands on arrival and departure, and I would have an old fashioned bar of carbolic soap tied with string to the tap!    I would ask people NOT to congregate, but do their jobs, ride, and then go home. Tbh I would be marching around a bit like the gestapo at peak times to break up any gatherings, keeping myself 2m apart.   But I wouldnt stop people seeing their beloved ponies who in many cases, are keeping people sane at the moment.


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

Muddywellies said:



			If I was a yard owner, I would ask people to wash their hands on arrival and departure, and I would have an old fashioned bar of carbolic soap tied with string to the tap!    I would ask people NOT to congregate, but do their jobs, ride, and then go home. Tbh I would be marching around a bit like the gestapo at peak times to break up any gatherings, keeping myself 2m apart.   But I wouldnt stop people seeing their beloved ponies who in many cases, are keeping people sane at the moment.
		
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Well Muddywellies I wish you were a yard owner, you have a very practical sense and would be appreciated by your liveries, well some of them ! lol


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## Muddywellies (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well Muddywellies I wish you were a yard owner, you have a very practical sense and would be appreciated by your liveries, well some of them ! lol
		
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Bless you.  I'll keep on choosing those lottery numbers


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## Bernster (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			It is really sad, but its amazing how your sixth sense kicks in when the facts are not appearing to stack up.

New yard, very much wanting to keep everything under control, have to use disposable gloves, tack room is off limits currently, and you are assigned a time you are allowed on the yard.  All liveries regardless of being full or part or DIY are only allowed to visit once per day, and only the person doing the horse is allowed on site, no partners, friends etc.
If the rule is not obeyed then the horse either has to be removed or be put on full livery with no visiting rights unless supervised by the YO
		
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I’m torn as I know we’re supposed to limit travel and if on full livery we don’t have to go for essential care. But if this goes on for longer, I’d love it if more yards would so this.  But on the flip side, I know this is for the greater good.


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## teapot (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Teapot - everything is going to change as we know it, and whilst i understand some of your thoughts to have one set of folk spending hours at the yard and another group being banned at the same yard, in the same barns, using the same fields and muck fork and being allowed to ride out, it does not make sense, unless they are hiding something.  It was obvious after my arriving on the yard to day that basic care in the terms of the horse is still alive were just about being met, a dirty bed is one thing, water buckets that had rings round and dirty yellow water in them and a rubbed wither and clots of hair does not mean they were getting basic care, which i was still paying full whack for.  No wonder they do not want the FL's on the yard.  I have posted pictures to my friends on the full livery yard and a few rather difficult questions are being asked by many of them.

The yard still has full staff, so what was the excuse ?
		
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I would be taking it up with the yard owner. No excuse for that.

I'm on the other side of all this - one of the last emails I sent at work was telling our liveries when they would be able to visit, field only, and for how long. We did it to protect the girls who are on site given the number of horses they're looking after.


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

teapot said:



			I would be taking it up with the yard owner. No excuse for that.

I'm on the other side of all this - one of the last emails I sent at work was telling our liveries when they would be able to visit, field only, and for how long. We did it to protect the girls who are on site given the number of horses they're looking after.
		
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Hi Teapot and i see no issue with you doing this, and nor would I have had an issue at the yard I left today, the issue i had was the complete gap between what was allowed.  FL's banned with the exception of the bank holiday weekend, which had been forgotten by the YO, so we were going to be allowed to go and do our horses but then be banned again,.  The DIY''s many of them off work were spending huge amounts of time on the yard, still riding out and bathing horses, I would normally have said  business as usual but after seeing what I saw today, it certainly was not, as I honestly have never seen so many folks on the yard.


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## teapot (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hi Teapot and i see no issue with you doing this, and nor would I have had an issue at the yard I left today, the issue i had was the complete gap between what was allowed.  FL's banned with the exception of the bank holiday weekend, which had been forgotten by the YO, so we were going to be allowed to go and do our horses but then be banned again,.  The DIY''s many of them off work were spending huge amounts of time on the yard, still riding out and bathing horses, I would normally have said  business as usual but after seeing what I saw today, it certainly was not, as I honestly have never seen so many folks on the yard.
		
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That's just piss poor management I'm afraid.


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## SO1 (2 April 2020)

My understanding is the gov message will change probably to stay at home otherwise people will die. 

The difficulty with public health messages is that they don't want to cause mass hysteria but at the same they need to encourage people to take the correct action. 

Telling people to stay at home otherwise they or their loved ones might die of the virus would probably be very effective but scary & it might stop essential workers from going to work which would be disastrous too. The gov needs to get the rIght balance. 

I would not be complacent just because you live in the countryside & are not in the vulnerable group. Food & essential goods and services are moved around the country from cities to rural areas. Country folk also do go holiday so could have brought the virus into rural communities that way. Fit young healthy people have been hospitalised/died.



Michen said:



			But that isn't the wording from the government or the reasoning behind the lockdown. SLOW the spread of the virus to protect the NHS. Slow, not stop. Control it. We will never stop it going through the population, the minute movement is allowed again it'll come back.
		
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## Michen (2 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			My understanding is the gov message will change probably to stay at home otherwise people will die. 

The difficulty with public health messages is that they don't want to cause mass hysteria but at the same they need to encourage people to take the correct action. 

Telling people to stay at home otherwise they or their loved ones might die of the virus would probably be very effective but scary & it might stop essential workers from going to work which would be disastrous too. The gov needs to get the rIght balance. 

I would not be complacent just because you live in the countryside & are not in the vulnerable group. Food & essential goods and services are moved around the country from cities to rural areas. Country folk also do go holiday so could have brought the virus into rural communities that way. Fit young healthy people have been hospitalised/died.

​

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It’s not about being complacent though. It’s about realising that at some point unless totally self isolating and not going to shops you will more than likely be exposed to the virus. 

It is about saving lives still because if the NHS get overwhelmed people will die as a result.


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## Caol Ila (2 April 2020)

Amymay said:



			I agree, to a degree. However I think some will see this as an excellent money making exercise
		
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Yes -- my friend's yard owner, for one. I appreciate the reasoning behind banning liveries, although I don't like it and still think there are less drastic ways to protect everyone while  not preventing people from seeing their animals for potentially months. But putting everyone on full livery at a yard that's at the upper end of the price range for the area anyway, and THEN asking for another big handful of cash for providing a service that's necessary for the horse's welfare? And you have the horse owner over a barrel, so they've got to do it. That's almost profiteering. 

My friend will be moving as soon as lockdowns and life allows.


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## DirectorFury (2 April 2020)

Bernster said:



			I’m torn as I know we’re supposed to limit travel and if on full livery we don’t have to go for essential care. But if this goes on for longer, I’d love it if more yards would so this.  But on the flip side, I know this is for the greater good.
		
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Doubtless I'll be slated for this but if this goes on for the estimated 6 months then I'm going to have to consider riding part of essential care. YO usually works miracles by keeping M's weight down but she needs exercise on top, without the exercise she'll likely come down with lami (EMS) or have to spend the summer locked in her stable. It's a small yard (7 full liveries, no DIY) and I'd be the only one visiting or riding regularly. Two of our hacking routes are usually deserted with no contact with gates or fences so we could stick to them.

And before I'm accused of making excuses please feel free to look at my posting history where you can read all about my battles with her weight and fear of laminitis. We have tried *everything* and the only combo that works is hard work, a muzzle, and a bare field.


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## Muddywellies (2 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			My understanding is the gov message will change probably to stay at home otherwise people will die.

The difficulty with public health messages is that they don't want to cause mass hysteria but at the same they need to encourage people to take the correct action.

Telling people to stay at home otherwise they or their loved ones might die of the virus would probably be very effective but scary & it might stop essential workers from going to work which would be disastrous too. The gov needs to get the rIght balance.

I would not be complacent just because you live in the countryside & are not in the vulnerable group. Food & essential goods and services are moved around the country from cities to rural areas. Country folk also do go holiday so could have brought the virus into rural communities that way. Fit young healthy people have been hospitalised/died.

​

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You need to consider how many people are dying WITH the virus, and how many are dying OF the virus.  There's a vast difference. And as they roll out testing, the number of cases will skyrocket, simply because more people are being tested, not because more people have it.


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## Winters100 (2 April 2020)

DirectorFury said:



			Doubtless I'll be slated for this but if this goes on for the estimated 6 months then I'm going to have to consider riding part of essential care. YO usually works miracles by keeping M's weight down but she needs exercise on top, without the exercise she'll likely come down with lami (EMS) or have to spend the summer locked in her stable. It's a small yard (7 full liveries, no DIY) and I'd be the only one visiting or riding regularly. Two of our hacking routes are usually deserted with no contact with gates or fences so we could stick to them.

And before I'm accused of making excuses please feel free to look at my posting history where you can read all about my battles with her weight and fear of laminitis. We have tried *everything* and the only combo that works is hard work, a muzzle, and a bare field.
		
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This to me is exactly the point. If everyone who is like me, lucky enough to have horses who do not need extra attention, can stay away then it leaves yards empty for people who, like you, would have genuine welfare issues if they do not visit.  But as long as people are focused on what is 'fair' in their eyes, and feeling that if someone else does something then they are somehow entitled to do the same, then this doesn't work.


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			This to me is exactly the point. If everyone who is like me, lucky enough to have horses who do not need extra attention, can stay away then it leaves yards empty for people who, like you, would have genuine welfare issues if they do not visit.  But as long as people are focused on what is 'fair' in their eyes, and feeling that if someone else does something then they are somehow entitled to do the same, then this doesn't work.
		
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Winters so you really think that my horse being left with a rug on that has cut into his withers, was left in a stinking bed with disgusting waters was "fair" for the horse ?  but you just have to keep having a dig don't you??  Their was obviously a reason the FL's were asked not to go to the yard, and their was no logic in whom was being banned.  DIY's could ride out, lunge, bath but FL's could not visit... but your gut usually kicks in and you know if something is off and it was.


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## Winters100 (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Winters so you really think that my horse being left with a rug on that has cut into his withers, was left in a stinking bed with disgusting waters was "fair" for the horse ?  but you just have to keep having a dig don't you??  Their was obviously a reason the FL's were asked not to go to the yard, and their was no logic in whom was being banned.  DIY's could ride out, lunge, bath but FL's could not visit... but your gut usually kicks in and you know if something is off and it was.
		
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My remark was general and not addressed to any one specific person.


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

Really, your posts have been aimed at me for much of this thread  Many folk do not bother to post on posts that you are involved in because of you and your bashing.  I have had over 10 PM's telling me to take no notice of you, and had several more saying they agree with what I am going through but do not feel emotionally strong enough to voice there opinion as you are getting quite a reputation of not only shutting down posts because of your pretty single minded opinions, but you are getting quite the reputation of being a bully.  I would put it in "bold and itallics" but I still will not reduce myself to your level.


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## tristar (2 April 2020)

DirectorFury said:



			Doubtless I'll be slated for this but if this goes on for the estimated 6 months then I'm going to have to consider riding part of essential care. YO usually works miracles by keeping M's weight down but she needs exercise on top, without the exercise she'll likely come down with lami (EMS) or have to spend the summer locked in her stable. It's a small yard (7 full liveries, no DIY) and I'd be the only one visiting or riding regularly. Two of our hacking routes are usually deserted with no contact with gates or fences so we could stick to them.

And before I'm accused of making excuses please feel free to look at my posting history where you can read all about my battles with her weight and fear of laminitis. We have tried *everything* and the only combo that works is hard work, a muzzle, and a bare field.
		
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hope you can work something out


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## stormox (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Winters so you really think that my horse being left with a rug on that has cut into his withers, was left in a stinking bed with disgusting waters was "fair" for the horse ?  but you just have to keep having a dig don't you??  Their was obviously a reason the FL's were asked not to go to the yard, and their was no logic in whom was being banned.  DIY's could ride out, lunge, bath but FL's could not visit... but your gut usually kicks in and you know if something is off and it was.
		
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I dont think its 'obviously a reason why FLs were asked not to go to the yard' at all. No full liveries are allowed on any yard at the moment under government legislaiton, as they arent sole carer of the horse, whilst DIY liveries are.
But I also feel for YOs who suddenly get a load of full liveries to do, having been a yard owner myself its absolute minimum 1 1/2 hrs work per horse just providing basic mucking out, rugs feed and turnout with pooh picking. About 10 hours a week, minimum wage... you do the sums!!


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## Winters100 (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Really, your posts have been aimed at me for much of this thread  Many folk do not bother to post on posts that you are involved in because of you and your bashing.  I have had over 10 PM's telling me to take no notice of you, and had several more saying they agree with what I am going through but do not feel emotionally strong enough to voice there opinion as you are getting quite a reputation of not only shutting down posts because of your pretty single minded opinions, but you are getting quite the reputation of being a bully.  I would put it in "bold and itallics" but I still will not reduce myself to your level.
		
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You over and over again wrote that you would not mind the restrictions if they also applied to other owners who were on DIY.  Then you attacked them, saying that if they could not afford FL how would they afford a vets bill.  This was the issue that I, and many others, had with what you wrote.

If your yard was providing sub-standard care that is a completely different issue, and one which you have correctly addressed by finding a yard which will hopefully meet your expectations.

Feel free to use bold or italics as you see fit, it does not concern me in the slightest.

I stand by my view that we should all be keeping any visits to our horses or anywhere else to the bare necessities, this is necessary in order to limit the number of countless deaths that we are going to see in the coming weeks.


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## flying_high (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Teapot - everything is going to change as we know it, and whilst i understand some of your thoughts to have one set of folk spending hours at the yard and another group being banned at the same yard, in the same barns, using the same fields and muck fork and being allowed to ride out, it does not make sense, unless they are hiding something.  It was obvious after my arriving on the yard to day that basic care in the terms of the horse is still alive were just about being met, a dirty bed is one thing, water buckets that had rings round and dirty yellow water in them and a rubbed wither and clots of hair does not mean they were getting basic care, which i was still paying full whack for.  No wonder they do not want the FL's on the yard.  I have posted pictures to my friends on the full livery yard and a few rather difficult questions are being asked by many of them.

The yard still has full staff, so what was the excuse ?
		
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None. My yard is closed to liveries, but are sharing regular videos and photos of the 30 odd horses on facebook, so owners can see they are happy, healthy and well.


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			You over and over again wrote that you would not mind the restrictions if they also applied to other owners who were on DIY.  Then you attacked them, saying that if they could not afford FL how would they afford a vets bill.  This was the issue that I, and many others, had with what you wrote.

If your yard was providing sub-standard care that is a completely different issue, and one which you have correctly addressed by finding a yard which will hopefully meet your expectations.

Feel free to use bold or italics as you see fit, it does not concern me in the slightest.

I stand by my view that we should all be keeping any visits to our horses or anywhere else to the bare necessities, this is necessary in order to limit the number of countless deaths that we are going to see in the coming weeks.
		
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Yes I did write that i was not happy with DIY's being allowed to be on the yard for any amount of time, riding out and bathing, when the FL''s were not, I could not see why when using the same fields, tools, muck heap etc.  The comment about affording a vet bill was from folk saying they could not afford to be on livery for 3 weeks, so it is a simple question if you cannot afford 3 weeks livery if you were ill, broke a leg or your horse had a massive vet bill was a sensible question.

Winters you have taken it way to far, ramming down your opinion of how we should be behaiving, you are not the police thank god and others are allowed opinions.  On several occasions by other posters you have been told how offensive your bold, italics are,  but you still carry on with this very rude behaviour.


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

flying_high said:



			None. My yard is closed to liveries, but are sharing regular videos and photos of the 30 odd horses on facebook, so owners can see they are happy, healthy and well.
		
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Hi Flying high, I am sure however if you had DIY's on your yard you would not have been allowing unlimited access and telling them to have one end of the day contact and no riding, as you are obviously a reasoned and considerate YO


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

stormox said:



			I dont think its 'obviously a reason why FLs were asked not to go to the yard' at all. No full liveries are allowed on any yard at the moment under government legislaiton, as they arent sole carer of the horse, whilst DIY liveries are.
But I also feel for YOs who suddenly get a load of full liveries to do, having been a yard owner myself its absolute minimum 1 1/2 hrs work per horse just providing basic mucking out, rugs feed and turnout with pooh picking. About 10 hours a week, minimum wage... you do the sums!!
		
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Hi Stormox, nothing form the FL side had changed, still full staff, still the same number of horses, so nothing had changed.  If the yard had been locked down and they had had another 20 horses to look after then I would have simply said to turn mine out overnight with a rug on.    The quote "obviously a reason why FL;s were asked not to go to the yard" was because they are not doing the work they have been paid to do, this was obvious by the state of the stables and the reason i have contacted my fellow FL's, some not all, and sent the photo's of the state of there horses stables, they need to know and the yard is not a cheap one.


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## stormox (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hi Stormox, nothing form the FL side had changed, still full staff, still the same number of horses, so nothing had changed.  If the yard had been locked down and they had had another 20 horses to look after then I would have simply said to turn mine out overnight with a rug on.    The quote "obviously a reason why FL;s were asked not to go to the yard" was because they are not doing the work they have been paid to do, this was obvious by the state of the stables and the reason i have contacted my fellow FL's, some not all, and sent the photo's of the state of there horses stables, they need to know and the yard is not a cheap one.
		
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The way the horses on full livery are looked after, either before oe after the loxkdown, has nothing to do with whether DIY liveries are allowed up or not really.
Its a problem between you and the yard owner and you have solved it by moving.


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## Upthecreek (2 April 2020)

The restrictions on travelling, where we can go and for what reasons and social distancing when we do go out have all been imposed to slow down the spread of coronavirus to enable the NHS to cope with the numbers requiring treatment in hospital. In terms of spreading the virus of course you can argue that people in the countryside visiting their horses at livery yards is not as high risk as people in towns going to gyms or shopping centres, but the problem is you can't have one set of rules for some people and a different set of rules for others. Whether it's fair or not the only reason people should be going to see their horse is if they are it's care provider and it is therefore essential that they do so. If the care is not being adequately provided by the care provider (if that is not you) and you don't trust them to look after your horse that is a different issue entirely. Notwithstanding the current situation, what would happen in 'normal life' if you were on holiday or ill or unable to get to the yard for whatever reason? Presumably you would entrust care to the Yard Owner or yard staff? 

I wouldn't keep my horses somewhere that I could not be confident they were being cared for in line with my expectations, regardless of whether I was able to 'check up' or not. Personally I won't be seeing mine for 12 weeks and I have no concerns about their welfare. I know they will get the care and attention they need and they will both be fine. I am lucky that neither has special requirements and they are enjoying a holiday turned out with their shoes off (which most competition horses and hunters do every year). I have asked that their weight is closely monitored due to the time of year, but I didn't really need to ask because I know it will be. I am being sent photos and videos every so often and I know the YO will contact me immediately if there are any problems.  

If the risk is removed or substantially mitigated provided that two metre social distancing is strictly maintained then what is the point in any of the restrictions that the government has put in place? If you subscribe to that logic everyone could pretty much carry on as before as long as people don't go within two metres of anyone else. And now they are saying two metres probably isn't far enough 

As for what will happen if this situation continues for a prolonged period of time, I can't envisage that those with horses on full livery will get to see them until restrictions are also lifted on movement of people in towns.


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## Leo Walker (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I have had over 10 PM's
		
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Course you have 😂😂😂😂 I've had over 20 😳😳😏


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## Gingerwitch (2 April 2020)

Leo Walker said:



			Course you have 😂😂😂😂 I've had over 20 😳😳😏
		
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Well we all know how full of crap you are, one moment its poor me, poor me, i am so frightened of getting anything and the next you getting the yard owners kids to drive you pony, and nearly let them run it in to the fence, so who really gives a stuff of what you have got to say ?


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## Leo Walker (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well we all know how full of crap you are, one moment its poor me, poor me, i am so frightened of getting anything and the next you getting the yard owners kids to drive you pony, and nearly let them run it in to the fence, so who really gives a stuff of what you have got to say ?
		
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Aww, now that's not very nice of you is it? If only I cared that a nasty lady was mean to me on the internet as shes an entitled dick 😂😂


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## be positive (2 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Winters so you really think that my horse being left with a rug on that has cut into his withers, was left in a stinking bed with disgusting waters was "fair" for the horse ?  but you just have to keep having a dig don't you??  Their was obviously a reason the FL's were asked not to go to the yard, and their was no logic in whom was being banned.  DIY's could ride out, lunge, bath but FL's could not visit... but your gut usually kicks in and you know if something is off and it was.
		
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That is not acceptable on any level, if YO's shut to liveries they must provide a decent level of care and not suddenly start to cut corners or in the other example profiteer from the situation, this is a time for everyone to do their bit to help the country as a whole it is not always going to be fair and suit everyone, some much needed common sense is required which is sadly lacking at times.


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## criso (2 April 2020)

stormox said:



			I dont think its 'obviously a reason why FLs were asked not to go to the yard' at all. No full liveries are allowed on any yard at the moment under government legislaiton, as they arent sole carer of the horse, whilst DIY liveries are.
		
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There is no govt. legislation that says anything about full liveries not being allowed on yards.  We can argue about what is sensible and what we consider essential care and whether we should be riding at all (FL or DIY)  but we should not infer specifics that do not exist.  Different organisations have offered some recommendations but these are not legislation.

From the govt site the only mention of not visiting livery yards is if you have symptoms. 

From the FAQs

* 3. Can I walk my dog / look after my horse?*

Yes – provided it is alone or with members of your household.

If you have symptoms

*If you have a horse in livery, you must not visit them whilst you are self-isolating. You should contact your yard manager or vet to make suitable welfare arrangements. *

if you do no have symptoms

*You may leave your house to exercise once a day and you should combine this with leaving your house to provide care for your horse or livestock. *


Meanwhile on my yard it's still at the other extreme.  One person's Dad is a bit bored so coming up with his daughter when she rides in the morning  and has offered to finish off at the end of the day so a second visit from both.  Yard manager has jumped at the chance to do less but still get paid. 

Problem is now my feeds are not being done properly, I need medication added to feed but I make it really easy so I premix everything, put it into daily pots and all that needs to happen is when doing the feed, you tip half the pot into each.  That's not happening.  I have raised it for the second time now but if doesn't happen tomorrow I will need to go up every day to do the evening feed. 

So we've gone from 1 person maybe coming up once in the week to ride before covid 19 to 2 people going up twice a day.  If I have to go up that's a person visiting 5 times instead of 2.


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## EllenJay (2 April 2020)

This thread is taking a really nasty turn.  GW - I think you need to calm down - obviously YOUR yard was doing a disservice, that doesn't mean that other yards are doing the same.

On a mixed yard the YO needs to reduce the amount of people coming through. They  have 2 choices - either A) ban everyone, and charge the DIY's a full livery price, or b) ban the FL as their horses are being looked after and keep the DIY on reduced hours.
Neither of these options will please everyone, but these are exceptional circumstances.

I have 2 horses. My main riding horse is on FL - so the best I can do is drive to his field and hope he comes over for a cuddle, whilst expecting the yard to look after him to their usual high standards.
My 2nd boy is on retirement livery - and due to the lockdown, and his issues have put a DNR on him.  I fully expect that the last visit I had with him was actually my final visit - but once again I completely trust the YO to do their best.


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## Upthecreek (2 April 2020)

Whilst we are all entitled to our opinions and feelings are obviously running high, let’s be grown ups and refrain from personally attacking and insulting each other. It’s not on.


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## SO1 (2 April 2020)

I think what this thread highlights is that if you are on part or full livery the importance of being able to trust the people looking after your horse when you are not there. It must be soul destroying being banned from the yard & suspecting your horse is not being cared for properly in your absence. I am sure there will be yards that take advantage of the owners not being there to check things.

This is unprecedented circumstances. Guidance is open to interpretation, some people are scared, some people don't know what to do. I expect if it looks like it is going to go on for longer than 3 weeks & deaths are not spiraling out of control then maybe then it might be time for FL yards to put in place something to allow owners to come & check their horses occasionally even if it is only half an hour once a week. 

Part livery is perhaps more tricky because of the exercise element for some horses is an essential part of their care especially if they are prone to weight gain & on decent grazing. If a horse is put at risk of laminitis due  to no exercise options then that becomes a serious welfare issue if you are banned from yard & no exercise if
yard does not offer you any exercise options.


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## Pippity (2 April 2020)

EllenJay said:



			On a mixed yard the YO needs to reduce the amount of people coming through. They  have 2 choices - either A) ban everyone, and charge the DIY's a full livery price, or b) ban the FL as their horses are being looked after and keep the DIY on reduced hours.
Neither of these options will please everyone, but these are exceptional circumstances.
		
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Third option: Ban everyone, and give DIYs the option of their horse being turned out 24/7, and given daily checks in the field without extra charge.


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## Lindylouanne (2 April 2020)

Pippity said:



			Third option: Ban everyone, and give DIYs the option of their horse being turned out 24/7, and given daily checks in the field without extra charge.
		
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This is just not workable in all cases. I’m a DIY on a farm, there isn’t a YO to do any of those checks and additionally one of mine has EMS and the other is a recovered but at risk laminitic. Neither can be turned away because after a few weeks I would have two dead horses.


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## SatansLittleHelper (2 April 2020)

Well this has been an eye opening thread 😱😱😱😱
I genuinely feel really bad for those who have been prevented from seeing their horses, I really do.
But do you know who I feel MUCH, MUCH worse for...??? The parents who are banned from seeing their children in hospital,  the parents whose children have DIED WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS.
The people whose loved ones have died ALONE. The people who have lost someone and cannot even comfort each other because of lockdown.

And before anyone bites me, I lost my daughter just before her 7th birthday,  she died peacefully in my arms with her favourite people around her. It absolutely breaks me that others are unable to do this because of the circumstances. I also suffer from mental health problems so I know how hard things can be.
This is genuinely aimed at no-one in particular but we all need to man the f uck up and be bloody grateful that we are none of those people.


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## Upthecreek (2 April 2020)

This thread also highlights that there is no ‘one size fits all’ approach that can be applied to every horse and every yard set up. All people can do is make a judgment on whether or not they need (rather than want) to be going to the yard based on their own individual circumstances. Of course if you are DIY with no services you must go to care for your horses whether you turn them away or not and nobody is saying you shouldn’t.


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## Pippity (2 April 2020)

Lindylouanne said:



			This is just not workable in all cases. I’m a DIY on a farm, there isn’t a YO to do any of those checks and additionally one of mine has EMS and the other is a recovered but at risk laminitic. Neither can be turned away because after a few weeks I would have two dead horses.
		
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The post I was responding to talked about mixed yards, so your situation wouldn't apply. I nearly added, "Of course, this wouldn't be suitable for everybody, either," but thought it was obvious.


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## Pippity (2 April 2020)

Double post.


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## sport horse (2 April 2020)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Well this has been an eye opening thread 😱😱😱😱
I genuinely feel really bad for those who have been prevented from seeing their horses, I really do.
But do you know who I feel MUCH, MUCH worse for...??? The parents who are banned from seeing their children in hospital,  the parents whose children have DIED WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS.
The people whose loved ones have died ALONE. The people who have lost someone and cannot even comfort each other because of lockdown.

And before anyone bites me, I lost my daughter just before her 7th birthday,  she died peacefully in my arms with her favourite people around her. It absolutely breaks me that others are unable to do this because of the circumstances. I also suffer from mental health problems so I know how hard things can be.
This is genuinely aimed at no-one in particular but we all need to man the f uck up and be bloody grateful that we are none of those people.
		
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I do so agree with you. I have struggled with this thread. The jealousy, disregard for the main problem and the total self absorption of liveries and the contsant carping at YO's who are mostly trying to do their best.   This is why I would never, ever have a livery in y yard again and I guess after this episode more yards will close. The modest profits for huge capital investment and masses of hard work are not worth the huge sense of entitlement of so many people.

I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter. I lost my husband very young and just one year later my neighbours lost their teenage son. We too know and sympathise with th suffering that is around us at the moment and frankly I could not care a toss if the YO does not quite muck out to your standards, or your horse is a bit warm etc etc. Get over yourselves you are really not with the world.


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## bouncing_ball (2 April 2020)

sport horse said:



			. We too know and sympathise with th suffering that is around us at the moment and frankly I could not care a toss if the YO does not quite muck out to your standards, or your horse is a bit warm etc etc. Get over yourselves you are really not with the world.
		
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Surely it depends, absolutely compared to sickness or loss, poor mucking out and rugs rubbing isn’t on the same scale.

but if yard has a full complement of heathy staff, and no direct health concerns and have stopped full liveries visiting to check their horses or do extras, it is reasonable Yard should do decent job on the basics!

Non smelly bed, fresh clean water, not rubbed by rugs are pretty basic and failure to provide is pretty unacceptable when have the full staff complement needed to do the work.

Made worse by preventing owners from checking their own horses.

Im lucky I trust my current yard. But I’ve not always been lucky.


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## Cinnamontoast (3 April 2020)

A little late, but the yo has now given us time slots to ensure social distancing. To be fair, we’ve not ensured it since lockdown! It’a going to properly put the cat among the pigeons, probably like many yards where liveries treat it as their social life, or it is their entire social life and only normality right now.

Can’t lie, I’m a little disappointed, I was going to start spending more time with the boy, but he’s retired and literally comes in, goes out, really easy horse. 

I feel really sorry for the yo, she is going to struggle with the ones who insist they can’t possibly cope, especially if those who have more than one horse. It’s an hour time slot, no way will people manage to catch in, ride, rug up, feed, get hay from the barn in an hour. Some horses need exercise and will go loopy without it.
Already had messages from one person who reckons she can’t turn out in 30 minutes, field is literally a 3 minute walk. 🙄


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## ester (3 April 2020)

attach a map to your reply?


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## Cinnamontoast (3 April 2020)

ester said:



			attach a map to your reply?
		
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Me, ester? I’m trying to use logic with her, but it’s not working! 😡


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## criso (3 April 2020)

I think slots are a good idea but an hour is quite tight.  I would struggle to groom (we still have mud), tack up, ride and untack in an hour.  And feeding, I have missed many trains waiting while  a tb takes his time eating his feed, 20 minutes is not unusual.


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## ester (3 April 2020)

Cinnamontoast said:



			Me, ester? I’m trying to use logic with her, but it’s not working! 😡
		
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yup , with estimated walking speeds . 

I guess timing of slots depends quite a lot on how many people you need to fit in.


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## Cinnamontoast (3 April 2020)

A local yard (Bury) has given 2 hour slots, so I think that will be the yardstick, we’re very linked with them, people move between the two, staff and liveries. I think the idea is that there’s no riding. Shame when a new arena just went down!


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## criso (3 April 2020)

Two hours seems sensible, I could even fit a muck out in that.


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## Cinnamontoast (4 April 2020)

Well, first person on the list took the mick this morning and overstayed by 1.5 hours. The girl after her wasn’t thrilled. Trouble is, the knock on effect will put everyone else at risk and wind up the yo. Silly, silly.


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## Lurfy (4 April 2020)

The place where I agist has up to 1 hr slots for non riding visits and 1.5hr slots for riding. It's tight but it's a big centre so catering for many clients. It is working well and people are following the schedule because we all want it to continue for as long as possible. The next stage will be no agistors able to visit, we haven't reached that point yet thankfully.


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## Frumpoon (4 April 2020)

SpringArising said:



			I think it's quite clear from your apparent lack of intellect that you don't.
		
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😂😂😂😂 I'm sure you're right


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## AdorableAlice (4 April 2020)

I wonder if there is another service industry that has to deal with such self serving, ignorant, arrogant, uneducated and rude customers than livery yard owners.  It is little wonder that yards are becoming more and more difficult to find when owners/managers are so obviously untrusted, undervalued and disrespected.  How many yard owners and potential yard owners read threads like this one and decide not to even consider going into the livery business.

When we come out of the crisis, there will be many yards out of business, many horses on the market, many jobs lost, many companies gone to the wall.  Many years will be needed to return to some sort of normality. Prices for food, human and equine, will rocket due to no planting be done in autumn.  Fresh foods will be less plentiful and will be left to rot in the fields because no one will pick them.  Taxes will rocket to pay for the unprecedented amounts of money the government is currently spending on keeping us all alive.

At this present moment all of us have far more worrying things to stress over than a grubby water bucket.


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## sport horse (4 April 2020)

AdorableAlice said:



			I wonder if there is another service industry that has to deal with such self serving, ignorant, arrogant, uneducated and rude customers than livery yard owners.  It is little wonder that yards are becoming more and more difficult to find when owners/managers are so obviously untrusted, undervalued and disrespected.  How many yard owners and potential yard owners read threads like this one and decide not to even consider going into the livery business.

When we come out of the crisis, there will be many yards out of business, many horses on the market, many jobs lost, many companies gone to the wall.  Many years will be needed to return to some sort of normality. Prices for food, human and equine, will rocket due to no planting be done in autumn.  Fresh foods will be less plentiful and will be left to rot in the fields because no one will pick them.  Taxes will rocket to pay for the unprecedented amounts of money the government is currently spending on keeping us all alive.

At this present moment all of us have far more worrying things to stress over than a grubby water bucket.
		
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At long last there is someone I can relate too.  Have all the posters on here failed to notice that the BEF, BHS and all member bodies have recommended that you DO NOT RIDE. Which bit of that is not clear?  It is to protect those poor folks that are working their butts of in the NHS, risking thier lives and do not need self entitled, stupid horse riders falling off and needing treatment.

The public opinion of horse riders is that they are wealthy, arrogant etc etc. Sadly the public are so right.


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

AdorableAlice said:



			I wonder if there is another service industry that has to deal with such self serving, ignorant, arrogant, uneducated and rude customers than livery yard owners.  It is little wonder that yards are becoming more and more difficult to find when owners/managers are so obviously untrusted, undervalued and disrespected.  How many yard owners and potential yard owners read threads like this one and decide not to even consider going into the livery business.

When we come out of the crisis, there will be many yards out of business, many horses on the market, many jobs lost, many companies gone to the wall.  Many years will be needed to return to some sort of normality. Prices for food, human and equine, will rocket due to no planting be done in autumn.  Fresh foods will be less plentiful and will be left to rot in the fields because no one will pick them.  Taxes will rocket to pay for the unprecedented amounts of money the government is currently spending on keeping us all alive.

At this present moment all of us have far more worrying things to stress over than a grubby water bucket.
		
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i also have never known another service industry where you are expected to put up with sub standard service regardless of what is paid.  How may steak houses would you pay for steak and be happy with scrag end and not say anything.  Would you pay for a service on a car and find that they had blew the tyres up and done nothing more ?  No you would not.

There are some very good livery yards out there, but there are also a huge number that are not, yards that promise one thing and deliver the opposite always with some reason ie turn out every day you move then find out it is, except when it rains.  Yet it is expected that you have to put up with it otherwise you are seen as a trouble maker.

As to being ignorant, uneducated and rude that works both ways.

Whatever I am asked to pay I do, set the prices to what is needed to make a successful business I have no problem with this at all,  my problem is when i am asked to pay x for y and find i am paying x and not getting the service.


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## stormox (4 April 2020)

sport horse said:



			At long last there is someone I can relate too.  Have all the posters on here failed to notice that the BEF, BHS and all member bodies have recommended that you DO NOT RIDE. Which bit of that is not clear?  

.
		
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The latest statement I can find from BHS says 'itis up to the individual to decide whether it is necessary to ride'..... it does not say DO NOT RIDE


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## Winters100 (4 April 2020)

sport horse said:



			The public opinion of horse riders is that they are wealthy, arrogant etc etc. Sadly the public are so right.
		
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Not all, but yes it does seem that a number are simply focused on what they can justify doing by stretching the rules rather than what is the _right _thing to do.


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## scats (4 April 2020)

Our YO prefers an empty yard to a yard full of the wrong people.  There are 4 of us on the yard at the moment and 6 horses (2 of which are mine). We have empty stables and have had people wanting to fill them but they haven’t been the right kind of people.  That probably sounds awful, but on a yard where we effectively manage it ourselves, the wrong person could be (and has been) a disaster.  YO isn’t around really, apart from dropping ok to collect post and do the bills.  She likes that she can happily leave us to it and have no drama but know the place is being well looked after.  As she is not actively involved in the horsey world anymore, she leaves it up to me and the other girls to decide who to have on the yard as we know the majority of the local horsey community, or can find out about people through various links.
We have no restrictions in place at the moment.  We are just keeping our distance but there’s so few of us that we don’t really have any reason to be near each other.  I have a barn to myself so I’ve been self isolating for years haha!


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Not all, but yes it does seem that a number are simply focused on what they can justify doing by stretching the rules rather than what is the _right _thing to do.
		
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#italics 

We really must be considered thick if we cannot grasp the sentence without italics being used.  Its incredibly condescending.


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## AdorableAlice (4 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			i also have never known another service industry where you are expected to put up with sub standard service regardless of what is paid.  How may steak houses would you pay for steak and be happy with scrag end and not say anything.  Would you pay for a service on a car and find that they had blew the tyres up and done nothing more ?  No you would not.

There are some very good livery yards out there, but there are also a huge number that are not, yards that promise one thing and deliver the opposite always with some reason ie turn out every day you move then find out it is, except when it rains.  Yet it is expected that you have to put up with it otherwise you are seen as a trouble maker.

As to being ignorant, uneducated and rude that works both ways.

Whatever I am asked to pay I do, set the prices to what is needed to make a successful business I have no problem with this at all,  my problem is when i am asked to pay x for y and find i am paying x and not getting the service.
		
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It rained this year, just a drop or two and maybe you expected ad lib turn out and classed the lack of it as sub standard service perhaps.  The yard manager/owner on the other hand took measures to protect the land for use of the liveries asap and will be actively, as we speak, harrowing rolling and rectifying.

Yard owners will be actively trying, in these unprecedented times we are living through, to ensure their own safety, that of their families and that of their clients.  They will also be listening to guidance from government and adhering to it to prevent the spread of the virus and to play a small part in saving lives and supporting the NHS.  Sub standard service or common sense ?  I will leave that one with you.

Thankfully there are various social media platforms that land owners/yard  owners can be part of to enable them to be warned of tricky yard jumping owners, thus ensuring they can avoid getting caught out and ending up with a rotten apple.


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## SatansLittleHelper (4 April 2020)

AdorableAlice said:



			I wonder if there is another service industry that has to deal with such self serving, ignorant, arrogant, uneducated and rude customers than livery yard owners.  It is little wonder that yards are becoming more and more difficult to find when owners/managers are so obviously untrusted, undervalued and disrespected.  How many yard owners and potential yard owners read threads like this one and decide not to even consider going into the livery business.

When we come out of the crisis, there will be many yards out of business, many horses on the market, many jobs lost, many companies gone to the wall.  Many years will be needed to return to some sort of normality. Prices for food, human and equine, will rocket due to no planting be done in autumn.  Fresh foods will be less plentiful and will be left to rot in the fields because no one will pick them.  Taxes will rocket to pay for the unprecedented amounts of money the government is currently spending on keeping us all alive.

At this present moment all of us have far more worrying things to stress over than a grubby water bucket.
		
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Basically this, with cherries on 🤟🤟🤟


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

AdorableAlice said:



			It rained this year, just a drop or two and maybe you expected ad lib turn out and classed the lack of it as sub standard service perhaps.  The yard manager/owner on the other hand took measures to protect the land for use of the liveries asap and will be actively, as we speak, harrowing rolling and rectifying.

Yard owners will be actively trying, in these unprecedented times we are living through, to ensure their own safety, that of their families and that of their clients.  They will also be listening to guidance from government and adhering to it to prevent the spread of the virus and to play a small part in saving lives and supporting the NHS.  Sub standard service or common sense ?  I will leave that one with you.

Thankfully there are various social media platforms that land owners/yard  owners can be part of to enable them to be warned of tricky yard jumping owners, thus ensuring they can avoid getting caught out and ending up with a rotten apple.
		
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Your taking things to the extreme Ad lib turn out in the winter is not something most owners want, but to be able to have horses out for part of the day i.e. 8 til 2 is not an unrealistic expectation, if your not going to do turn out then say so but do not say they go out every day regardless then the owner finds out as soon as they move that they don't.  I moved yards in the August and from September to April those horses went out twice.  Twice.  It nigh on killed me to keep them exercised.  Some days the reason given was because it was raining, some because it might rain, and others because the ground may cut up because the horses would canter.  Then on other days it was because the yard was too busy to turn out or then did not have staff to turn out and bring them in or they were clipping.

My hay bill was huge, but they could not be left stood in and hungry, they were supposed to be on Full Livery but if you did not do extra waters to leave outside stables they got nothing fresh till night stables.   I used to cry when I drove down the track and saw the board was showing for not turn out was up it was a horrid yard. And it was approved by the BHS - oh and on that day it was being assessed all the horses had to stay in as well !

If this classes as tricky yard jumping then I am over the moon, that yard was hell on earth for those animals, and some did not go out of the stable from one week to the next and then were classed as nutty and shoved in a chifney as they were so fresh and the owners could not handle them under saddle.

Horse owners are the same they know the crap yards and some yards will always have spaces because they are awful and if i were such a rotten apple when I phoned my previous yard they would have told me to jog on, but they moved horses around to accommodate me and mine.  Why, because I pay up front and on time and they do not hear a word from me when they uphold their part of the service contract.


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## Leo Walker (4 April 2020)

It does seem staggering that the service was just fine until lockdown, when a convenient excuse was needed to justify moving.

I'm very lucky with my yard. We too leave boxes empty rather than have the wrong people. Spaces don't come up often though.


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

Leo Walker said:



			It does seem staggering that the service was just fine until lockdown, when a convenient excuse was needed to justify moving.

I'm very lucky with my yard. We too leave boxes empty rather than have the wrong people. Spaces don't come up often though.
		
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Why on earth would you have to wait for a convenient excuse to leave a yard that is not looking after your horses ?

I suppose the wrong people on your yard are ones that don't hurl horses around schools by their mouths and laugh when the poor horse nearly impales itself into a wooden fence.  So I can see why your yard would have spaces.


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## paddy555 (4 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Your taking things to the extreme Ad lib turn out in the winter is not something most owners want, but to be able to have horses out for part of the day i.e. 8 til 2 is not an unrealistic expectation, if your not going to do turn out then say so but do not say they go out every day regardless then the owner finds out as soon as they move that they don't.  I moved yards in the August and from September to April those horses went out twice.  Twice.  It nigh on killed me to keep them exercised.  Some days the reason given was because it was raining, some because it might rain, and others because the ground may cut up because the horses would canter.  Then on other days it was because the yard was too busy to turn out or then did not have staff to turn out and bring them in or they were clipping.

My hay bill was huge, but they could not be left stood in and hungry, they were supposed to be on Full Livery but if you did not do extra waters to leave outside stables they got nothing fresh till night stables.   I used to cry when I drove down the track and saw the board was showing for not turn out was up it was a horrid yard. And it was approved by the BHS - oh and on that day it was being assessed all the horses had to stay in as well !

.
		
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when you run your own yard, as I do and from her comments I guess AA must do, you find out the reality of the situation, the fact you are the one responsible for sorting the damage caused by this long wet winter and the buck stops with you. Like many I had to make instant decisions as to whether they could go out on a particular day and the answer was often  they couldn't. It was a constant worry when the horses cantered on soggy, wet, poached ground. Exercising also a worry. Days when it was supposed to be fine and they could go out and suddenly the heavens opened so it didn't happen. 
My hay bill was also huge, with 9 that was not surprising but as you say they could not be left in and hungry. Like you I didn't anticipate that size of hay bill but life happened and it was a case of adapting as one always must do with horses.
I imagine life is very different being a livery and being the person responsible for it all. 

It is very easy after reading this thread and similar to see why people with space totally refuse any liveries. 

If it was such a horrid yard I don't understand why you stayed. 



Off topic but I did just wonder if one can have more than one account on here and post under different names? Just curious.


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## ester (4 April 2020)

I think/hope that we'd all agree that yard owners aren't a single collective. There are good ones that are always doing their best, there are terrible ones and there are ones in the middle. Mine was good but even then there were things that would upset/frustrate me. 

paddy, yes you can.


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## sport horse (4 April 2020)

ester said:



			I think/hope that we'd all agree that yard owners aren't a single collective. There are good ones that are always doing their best, there are terrible ones and there are ones in the middle. Mine was good but even then there were things that would upset/frustrate me.

paddy, yes you can.
		
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And vice versa there are good liveries, there are bad liveries and some in the middle.


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## sport horse (4 April 2020)

stormox said:



			The latest statement I can find from BHS says 'itis up to the individual to decide whether it is necessary to ride'..... it does not say DO NOT RIDE
		
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Extract from British Equestrian Federation Press Release 2nd April:

Our advice on riding remains unchanged – we recommend that people don’t ride their horses unless strictly necessary. We should all respect the Government’s message of ‘stay safe, save the NHS, stay home’, and carefully consider the risks associated with riding. As a community, we should not be putting any additional pressure on our emergency and NHS services.


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## HBB (4 April 2020)

stormox said:



			The latest statement I can find from BHS says 'itis up to the individual to decide whether it is necessary to ride'..... it does not say DO NOT RIDE
		
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I don't think the BHS are going to stick their neck out and tell people not to ride, it would unpopular and met with great criticism, they are a charity and I imagine it would have a negative impact on their income. 
We really need an official government department to be responsible for equines and equestrianism in the UK, that can set guidelines to be adhered to in situations like this, there is far too much confusion and conflicted interpretations in the advice that has already been given.


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## Winters100 (4 April 2020)

HBB said:



			I don't think the BHS are going to stick their neck out and tell people not to ride, it would unpopular and met with great criticism, they are a charity and I imagine it would have a negative impact on their income.
We really need an official government department to be responsible for equines and equestrianism in the UK, that can set guidelines to be adhered to in situations like this, there is far too much confusion and conflicted interpretations in the advice that has already been given.
		
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Sadly, yes, it seems that for some the current guidelines of 'stay at home as much as possible' are not clear enough and need to be more specific.


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## Lindylouanne (4 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Sadly, yes, it seems that for some the current guidelines of 'stay at home as much as possible' are not clear enough and need to be more specific.
		
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I am incredibly lucky that I can see my horses twice a day and I don’t see anyone else in person at either end of the day yet driving home this afternoon I had to slow down on the track I use across the fields because there were 7 adults and 5 kids on bikes standing in a huddle in the middle of the road having a good old chat. They were obviously not all from the same family so how is that social distancing and they parted like the Red Sea as I approached. Words fail me.


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## Upthecreek (4 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Sadly, yes, it seems that for some the current guidelines of 'stay at home as much as possible' are not clear enough and need to be more specific.
		
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Yes why is it so hard to understand? Saw this on Facebook today. Apparently they had 10 or so walkers a day before lockdown & now over 200.


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			when you run your own yard, as I do and from her comments I guess AA must do, you find out the reality of the situation, the fact you are the one responsible for sorting the damage caused by this long wet winter and the buck stops with you. Like many I had to make instant decisions as to whether they could go out on a particular day and the answer was often  they couldn't. It was a constant worry when the horses cantered on soggy, wet, poached ground. Exercising also a worry. Days when it was supposed to be fine and they could go out and suddenly the heavens opened so it didn't happen.
My hay bill was also huge, with 9 that was not surprising but as you say they could not be left in and hungry. Like you I didn't anticipate that size of hay bill but life happened and it was a case of adapting as one always must do with horses.
I imagine life is very different being a livery and being the person responsible for it all.

It is very easy after reading this thread and similar to see why people with space totally refuse any liveries.

If it was such a horrid yard I don't understand why you stayed.



Off topic but I did just wonder if one can have more than one account on here and post under different names? Just curious.
		
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Firstly - some folk do have more than one account, you are not supposed to and some have been caught out as they have forgotten whom they are posting as.  But for many they have had a second account as they either cannot cope with certain individuals constant badgering or they do not want to be seen as loosing face or have something really personal to pos.t

Secondly -where are you supposed to find stables for 2+ horses at the same time, like I say there are good yards out their, but they have wait lists.  If a yard has space for 2 to 4 horses at the same time then that tells a tail of its own.  when you move areas, and i move round the country every 5 or 6 years, then you can only go with what you are told when you visit the yard.  So if the yard says no turn out over winter then you have your choice to make, when the yard tells you they go out every day unless its icy, and that rug changes are included in the f.l package and that you have free use of the school you then do not expect to be told that horses cannot go out for weeks and months on end - and that x Riding club camp is coming in for two weeks in August and your horses have to go out 24/7 and you are not allowed use of the facilities including stables due to the camp.


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## ester (4 April 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			Yes why is it so hard to understand? Saw this on Facebook today. Apparently they had 10 or so walkers a day before lockdown & now over 200.

View attachment 43521

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I've seen similar posts complaining that people aren't wearing gloves, but I am not entirely sure why they think would help given that gloves are going to be pretty good at carrying stuff around too.


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## milliepops (4 April 2020)

ester said:



			I've seen similar posts complaining that people aren't wearing gloves, but I am not entirely sure why they think would help given that gloves are going to be pretty good at carrying stuff around too.
		
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yup, i just find them useful to stop me touching my face


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## criso (4 April 2020)

milliepops said:



			yup, i just find them useful to stop me touching my face 

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Someone at the yard was saying the same to me last week.  I didn't like to tell her she'd touched her face about 5 times in the space of a reasonably short conversation.


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

ester said:



			I've seen similar posts complaining that people aren't wearing gloves, but I am not entirely sure why they think would help given that gloves are going to be pretty good at carrying stuff around too.
		
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Well in two weeks time the government is possibly going to back track and go for herd immunity as it s approach, Spain and Italy have gone for catastrophe approach, Sweden is going down the herd immunity approach and China are just a bunch of liars. So at some point we will have to change for the herd approach.


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## ester (4 April 2020)

milliepops said:



			yup, i just find them useful to stop me touching my face 

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Oh I absolutely get that but it wouldn't make me then highlight that others weren't wearing them.


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

criso said:



			Someone at the yard was saying the same to me last week.  I didn't like to tell her she'd touched her face about 5 times in the space of a reasonably short conversation.
		
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Its rubbing the eyes that I find the hardest to get to grips with


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## milliepops (4 April 2020)

criso said:



			Someone at the yard was saying the same to me last week.  I didn't like to tell her she'd touched her face about 5 times in the space of a reasonably short conversation.
		
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haha!  oops! I'm quite well trained because I'm really allergic to hay (and horses) so I wear gloves for all the jobs where I need to not transfer allergens to my eyes.  It makes me really aware of what I'm doing. If I put dirty gloves near my face I will pay for it!


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## ycbm (4 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well in two weeks time the government is possibly going to back track and go for herd immunity as it s approach, Spain and Italy have gone for catastrophe approach, Sweden is going down the herd immunity approach and China are just a bunch of liars. So at some point we will have to change for the herd approach.
		
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No backtrack. 

We have never stopped going for herd immunity. All we have been doing is trying not to let people die because the NHS is overwhelmed, and to lock away the very vulnerable meanwhile.

For the moment, we all need to play our part in slowing the spread to save lives.

.


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## Winters100 (4 April 2020)

criso said:



			Someone at the yard was saying the same to me last week.  I didn't like to tell her she'd touched her face about 5 times in the space of a reasonably short conversation.
		
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I am so guilty of this - I find it super hard not to touch my face.  The only thing which I think worked, although I can't be certain, was to tie my hair back and put some really strong smelling disinfectant on the gloves so that everytime my hands came near my face the smell reminded me.  Now I am not going out, so problem solved for now.


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## stormox (4 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well in two weeks time the government is possibly going to back track and go for herd immunity as it s approach, Spain and Italy have gone for catastrophe approach, Sweden is going down the herd immunity approach and China are just a bunch of liars. So at some point we will have to change for the herd approach.
		
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I dont agree - the government wont backtrack. I think trying to limit the amount of people each person comes into contact with is the only way to slow the spread. It will work and as long as everyone plays their part results should start to show in 2 or 3 weeks time.


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

stormox said:



			I dont agree - the government wont backtrack. I think trying to limit the amount of people each person comes into contact with is the only way to slow the spread. It will work and as long as everyone plays their part results should start to show in 2 or 3 weeks time.
		
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I do not know how we can continue like this for another 3 weeks, we have just done 2, and the private sector is crippled, many of the firms I am working with do not know how they can pay 80% wages next week, as many clients are not paying suppliers because there customers are not paying them, this means they cannot pay wage bills and are on stop so cannot even keep what little part of the economy going.

Ie New yard has asked me not to go on shavings as they have dried up supply and want to keep there stock for the ponies and horses that have breathing issues or the lamis. Not a major issue for me, straw is fine for me, but i think this shows you how badly we are being impacted.  By the way i know that being on shavings or straw is a first world issue.


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## Upthecreek (4 April 2020)

ester said:



			I've seen similar posts complaining that people aren't wearing gloves, but I am not entirely sure why they think would help given that gloves are going to be pretty good at carrying stuff around too.
		
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Totally agree. But why 190 people more per day are walking there since before lockdown baffles me 🤷🏻‍♀️ I still can’t work out why staying at home and only going out when it is essential is such a difficult concept for so many people. The government has said it’s an instruction not a request so I don’t know how they can make it clearer. Nobody can use ignorance as a defence because you would have to have been living in a cave not to see and hear it.


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## criso (4 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			I am so guilty of this - I find it super hard not to touch my face.  The only thing which I think worked, although I can't be certain, was to tie my hair back and put some really strong smelling disinfectant on the gloves so that everytime my hands came near my face the smell reminded me.  Now I am not going out, so problem solved for now.
		
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My eyes always stream when it's windy and I find it impossible not to touch them.  And now we're into hay fever season so they are really itchy and watering.  Luckily I'm OK at the stables, it's London where it gets really bad.  I had to post a letter yesterday and sneezed about 4 times just walking 100 yards to the postbox. Wanted to tell people, it's just hay fever, honestly.


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## mavandkaz (4 April 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			Totally agree. But why 190 people more per day are walking there since before lockdown baffles me 🤷🏻‍♀️ I still can’t work out why staying at home and only going out when it is essential is such a difficult concept for so many people. The government has said it’s an instruction not a request so I don’t know how they can make it clearer. Nobody can use ignorance as a defence because you would have to have been living in a cave not to see and hear it.
		
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I can understand the increase in people walking on footpaths. I have a nice little 45min loop I can walk from my door. I am seeing lots more people on it then usual. Partly because a lot of people would drive the half mile to the top of the downs, and the police are stopping them, so they are staying local instead. Couple that with people who would normally be at walk, and now suddenly have time to work. Plus those that would normally go to the gym, are now outside running etc. 
That phrase ' can leave your house for exercise' has its drawbacks.


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## scats (4 April 2020)

We have a public footpath that runs through our yard and a couple of our fields.  We know all the regular walkers and dog walkers.  The Farm is very hidden and most people have no idea there’s a public footpath this way.
I’ve seen more people over the last couple of weeks than I have in ages!  Most are really considerate and friendly, but unfortunately the path isn’t well signposted to one side of the farm and people end up trespassing around our land rather than turning down the path they should. I know a few people do it on purpose (the locals who ought to know better) but a lot of these new walkers are now headed around the land, passing the sheep etc.  I keep finding confused people who end up doing a loop and find themselves back where they started!


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## southerncomfort (4 April 2020)

I've reassessed the whole riding thing and decided against.

The 2 nearest hospitals to me are filling up with cases now and the air ambulance has been grounded as the crews are needed to work in the hospitals.

Riding now wouldn't feel right, but I completely respect others for feeling differently.


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## Upthecreek (4 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I do not know how we can continue like this for another 3 weeks, we have just done 2, and the private sector is crippled, many of the firms I am working with do not know how they can pay 80% wages next week, as many clients are not paying suppliers because there customers are not paying them, this means they cannot pay wage bills and are on stop so cannot even keep what little part of the economy going.

Ie New yard has asked me not to go on shavings as they have dried up supply and want to keep there stock for the ponies and horses that have breathing issues or the lamis. Not a major issue for me, straw is fine for me, but i think this shows you how badly we are being impacted.  By the way i know that being on shavings or straw is a first world issue.
		
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At the moment stopping the virus spreading is the number one priority. They are not going to relax restrictions for the sake of the economy until that objective is achieved. Economic issues are secondary and the fallout from this will have to be dealt with later. Unfortunately this will have dire consequences for a lot of businesses.


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## Pearlsasinger (4 April 2020)

My neighbours are shielding, if I were them, I would put a sign on the footpath asking walkers to go round on the road, rather than across their land.


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## Pearlsasinger (4 April 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			At the moment stopping the virus spreading is the number one priority. They are not going to relax restrictions for the sake of the economy until that objective is achieved. Economic issues are secondary and the fallout from this will have to be dealt with later. Unfortunately this will have dire consequences for a lot of businesses.
		
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l
As Nicola Sturgeon has said, 'We can rebuilt the economy eventually, we can't bring people back from the dead',


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			At the moment stopping the virus spreading is the number one priority. They are not going to relax restrictions for the sake of the economy until that objective is achieved. Economic issues are secondary and the fallout from this will have to be dealt with later. Unfortunately this will have dire consequences for a lot of businesses.
		
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Its not just the businesses though is it, i really hope we have a back Britain campaign and we insist that the NHS finds suppliers from the UK and tells China to jog on.  I know that the economic reasons will be sited but really after this, anyone that buys from China in 2021 should be horse whipped and Bozza whilst I admire what he is doing needs his head looking at over the Huawei deal.  Bozz needs to stop HS2 and make us self sufficient again.  i am sure we wont die if we cannot get strawberrys all year round will we ? and just think what we will be doing for the environment too.


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## Lindylouanne (4 April 2020)

While Boris was Mayor of London he was all about trading with BRIC countries. For those that don’t know they are Brazil, Russia, India and China. Can’t imagine much has changed since I worked for him.


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			l
As Nicola Sturgeon has said, 'We can rebuilt the economy eventually, we can't bring people back from the dead',
		
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I agree, but some elements are already pushing for DNRs on some parts of the population.  I do not like this, I do not like this at all.  First in to hospital gets the care, if they happen to be the older part of the population well they are the ones that have paid in the most, they deserve to be looked after.

Do not forget the UK sent 6 million people out to fight in world war 1, and 700,000 died,
WW2 70 to 85 million people were killed.  70 to 85 million deaths and that was government sanctioned. (around the world)


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

Lindylouanne said:



			While Boris was Mayor of London he was all about trading with BRIC countries. For those that don’t know they are Brazil, Russia, India and China. Can’t imagine much has changed since I worked for him.
		
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Well he is a knob then !


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## Lindylouanne (4 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well he is a knob then !
		
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Sadly I am constrained by a confidentially clause and can neither agree nor disagree 🤣


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## Gingerwitch (4 April 2020)

Lindylouanne said:



			Sadly I am constrained by a confidentially clause and can neither agree nor disagree 🤣
		
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HA HA HA

does he have a hair dresser ?


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## Lindylouanne (4 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			HA HA HA

does he have a hair dresser ?
		
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I couldn’t possibly say 🤐


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## Michen (4 April 2020)

Oh GW you really do just sound like an absolute nightmare of a person.


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## Caol Ila (4 April 2020)

Saving lives and rebuilding the economy later is easy to say, but a lot of people will be looking at a choice between taking their chances with coronavirus or starvation (or both). They are highly unlikely to be on this message boards, and many won't be in this country, although if this lockdown goes on for months, some may well be. Poor countries like Zimbabwe will see lots of unrest and death when people can't feed themselves, and 'shelter-in-place' is in itself very first world and classist. It assumes you have a place to shelter and aren't living in a tin shack shanty town. India has instituted a lockdown and it's become apparent quickly -- where the hell are people going to lock down?

In other words, we are all pretty much screwed no matter what we do.


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## Upthecreek (4 April 2020)

Caol Ila said:



			Saving lives and rebuilding the economy later is easy to say, but a lot of people will be looking at a choice between taking their chances with coronavirus or starvation (or both). They are highly unlikely to be on this message boards, and many won't be in this country, although if this lockdown goes on for months, some may well be. Poor countries like Zimbabwe will see lots of unrest and death when people can't feed themselves, and 'shelter-in-place' is in itself very first world and classist. It assumes you have a place to shelter and aren't living in a tin shack shanty town. India has instituted a lockdown and it's become apparent quickly -- where the hell are people going to lock down?

In other words, we are all pretty much screwed no matter what we do.
		
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Completely agree with you but we aren’t in Zimbabwe or India. There are things we can do here right now to make a positive impact on the spread of Coronavirus. If we do them it will mean that lockdown restrictions are relaxed/lifted sooner which will have have a positive impact on the economy.


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## ester (4 April 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			Totally agree. But why 190 people more per day are walking there since before lockdown baffles me 🤷🏻‍♀️ I still can’t work out why staying at home and only going out when it is essential is such a difficult concept for so many people. The government has said it’s an instruction not a request so I don’t know how they can make it clearer. Nobody can use ignorance as a defence because you would have to have been living in a cave not to see and hear it.
		
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Well I'm just one person but I'm walking and cycling (roads and byways depending on which bike I take), I would ordinarily be doing bootcamp, weights, swimming and cycling (either communting or group rides) so you wouldn't normally see me walking. I think there's a lot of people like me who are having to alter their normal exercise routines. We have quite a lot of gyms locally, they add up to a lot of people + those now not commuting by bike.


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## ester (4 April 2020)

See I don't understand that argument logically either UTC, if we have a bigger impact on the spread than we are hoping to it risks not flattening the curve when everyone goes out again. It is a very fine balancing act and one I think they will only be able to assess once all those infected pre shutdown have been accounted for and we are only counting new infections.
Can you explain how you understand it will shorten the time of restrictions?


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## Caol Ila (5 April 2020)

As soon as you lift the lockdown, the virus comes back. Are you going to keep everyone in lockdown for the next 18 months? Italy's now having problems with social unrest. I don't see that going well. I think people will play ball up to a point, but then they need  to eat and live somewhere, and plenty will fall through the cracks of the government's half-assed plans to deal.  And obviously international travel will have to remain extremely restricted if not banned outright, because there are too many countries in the world without the resources to contain the virus (or who have the resources and don't use them... looking at you, America). China, South Korea, etc have found themselves doing this.

As far as walking goes, the government did say we are allowed out to exercise (haha, like prison), and like ester has pointed out, a lot of people's normal exercise routines won't be available anymore, say if they played team sports, used a gym, whatever. Or if they would normally be walking up mountains but are now walking in city parks. Or indeed, if they have a horse at a yard that has now banned owners. Plus, people are really fecking bored.

No matter what we do, we are all up sh ** t's creek without an outboard. Might as well go for a walk, while staying six feet away from everyone else.


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## JennBags (5 April 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			My neighbours are shielding, if I were them, I would put a sign on the footpath asking walkers to go round on the road, rather than across their land.
		
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Someone round here did that, put up a sign requesting people didn't go through their land as they were in self isolation and vulnerable people. The sign got pulled down and ignored, and the council told them they are not allowed to restrict access to a public right of way.
In the matter of seeing more people than usual out and about, they go out to get their daily exercise while they would normally be at work or at the gym.  I don't understand why some people get so upset about seeing more people out enjoying the countryside. As long as everyone is careful about keeping distance, not touching your face and washing your hands as soon as you get home, it shouldn't be a problem.


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## ycbm (5 April 2020)

JB I agree with you.  I was out for three hours (so shoot me!) yesterday, walking from home in an area which is a no more than a ten minute drive from two towns. We saw three people, all on bikes. I found it really sad that people were stuck in town when they could safely have been enjoying acre upon acre of open countryside. 

.


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## stormox (5 April 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			My neighbours are shielding, if I were them, I would put a sign on the footpath asking walkers to go round on the road, rather than across their land.
		
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Its no worse or more difficult isolating for those with a footpath through their land than it is for people who live next to a road!!


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## Upthecreek (5 April 2020)

ester said:



			See I don't understand that argument logically either UTC, if we have a bigger impact on the spread than we are hoping to it risks not flattening the curve when everyone goes out again. It is a very fine balancing act and one I think they will only be able to assess once all those infected pre shutdown have been accounted for and we are only counting new infections.
Can you explain how you understand it will shorten the time of restrictions?
		
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I can’t explain any of it, but unless everything we’re being told by government is false the way to get through this is for people to stay at home. As for what happens when everyone goes out again, I don’t know, but my understanding is that the immediate priority is to slow the spread down to enable the NHS to cope now and that is why movement has been restricted. Matt Hancock has just said on the Andrew Marr Show that they will have to ban exercise of all forms outside the home if people don’t follow the rules because this is how they think the curve will begin to flatten.

Parks are closed today because people were sitting around in groups in them yesterday (not exercising) so now there will be even less places for people to exercise and get fresh air, which is sad. 

I think there is a realistic possibility that by the end of this week further restrictions will be imposed. It also sounds like life as we know it will not return for a long time because I would think that the lifting of restrictions without the numbers spiking will be a difficult situation to manage. 

I just have this hope (though maybe I am being completely stupid) that if we all follow the rules the NHS will be able to treat everyone that requires it, less people will die and once the numbers drop the government will be able to look at relaxing some of the restrictions. Of course I could be completely wrong, but that’s how I see it.


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## Gingerwitch (5 April 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			I can’t explain any of it, but unless everything we’re being told by government is false the way to get through this is for people to stay at home. As for what happens when everyone goes out again, I don’t know, but my understanding is that the immediate priority is to slow the spread down to enable the NHS to cope now and that is why movement has been restricted. Matt Hancock has just said on the Andrew Marr Show that they will have to ban exercise of all forms outside the home if people don’t follow the rules because this is how they think the curve will begin to flatten.

I just have this hope (though maybe I am being completely stupid) that if we all follow the rules the NHS will be able to treat everyone that requires it, less people will die and once the numbers drop the government will be able to look at relaxing some of the restrictions. Of course I could be completely wrong, but that’s how I see it.
		
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I just wish the government would be honest, if the NHS is not going to issue recovery care to those that are older and or already have serious health conditions at least tell us.


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## SOS (5 April 2020)

I see they have closed a lot of the parks in London including Victoria Park which is over 200 acres. I understand some people that attended London parks yesterday were not following the guidelines and have large gatherings, BBQs etc. But the majority from the photos seemed to be sitting a fair distance apart or walking/cycling in pairs. Closing parks in cities will just lead to people exercising on the streets where it is harder to practice social distancing. 

Although sitting in parks is not strictly allowed I think we are forgetting many of these people are cooped up in flats all day long in a city and don’t have a garden to get some fresh air in.


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## Winters100 (5 April 2020)

ester said:



			See I don't understand that argument logically either UTC, if we have a bigger impact on the spread than we are hoping to it risks not flattening the curve when everyone goes out again. It is a very fine balancing act and one I think they will only be able to assess once all those infected pre shutdown have been accounted for and we are only counting new infections.
Can you explain how you understand it will shorten the time of restrictions?
		
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For sure you are right that it will be a balancing act. I don't see the restrictions being lifted altogether for a long time, but they can hopefully be loosened more quickly if the curve can be flattened enough to give some capacity within the NHS.  A smaller number of carriers coupled with a well prepared health service makes the risk of looser restrictions lower, but probably only for a period of time.  To be honest I think the restrictions will be here for some time now, probably will need to be strengthened in the immediate future, and once loosened will most likely will need to be re-introduced several times.  At least based upon most of what I have read about the assumptions used in some models this seems to be the best guess.  Until we have some effective treatment and vaccines it seems it is our best and only hope.


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## stormox (5 April 2020)

Here in Ireland we are allowed to go out for excersise, walk dog ride horse whatever, but we must stay within 2km (1 1/4 miles)  of our homes, unless its to do necessary shopping or care for animals.


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## flying_high (5 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I just wish the government would be honest, if the NHS is not going to issue recovery care to those that are older and or already have serious health conditions at least tell us.
		
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I don't think it is as black and white as that. I think (and have some knowledge to give this view) it depends on demand and availability on a day by day basis. And may differ from hospital to hospital I don't think demand has typically reached the point of needing to make choices yet. But it may do. 

To be truthful it always has been thus, that in winter not every elderly person can have an intensive care bed with pneumonia complications, it depends on availability, and with 100% occupancy rates common, may need the bed occupier to die first. 

I do think it is possible that people in care homes, not able to live independently will not be admitted to hospital with CV. And to be fair, would you want your older, confused, living with a lot of support, relative to be admitted to a CV ward, and be intubated, and barrier nursed, with no one familiar with them? 

Stark choices are likely if demand outstrips availability, and there maybe some guidance provided on making choices when pressure points arise, but the truth is the NHS does this already, deciding who to give organs too, and who to get surgery etc. there are ethical choices all the time as money isn't limitless, they just aren't spoken about much. But there wont be a blanket decision not to support certain groups of people (care homes aside).


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## flying_high (5 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			For sure you are right that it will be a balancing act. I don't see the restrictions being lifted altogether for a long time, but they can hopefully be loosened more quickly if the curve can be flattened enough to give some capacity within the NHS.  A smaller number of carriers coupled with a well prepared health service makes the risk of looser restrictions lower, but probably only for a period of time.  To be honest I think the restrictions will be here for some time now, probably will need to be strengthened in the immediate future, and once loosened will most likely will need to be re-introduced several times.  At least based upon most of what I have read about the assumptions used in some models this seems to be the best guess.  Until we have some effective treatment and vaccines it seems it is our best and only hope.
		
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Given the behavior witnessed yesterday of people out in the sunshine at beauty spots etc. there is talk now of the restrictions being further tightened to keep people in their homes! Despair of the people driving to popular spots, or even attending them if local. It is obvious are places to avoid at the moment. I can walk to a range of popular spots from home, I am avoiding them and walking little known routes at less social times whilst it is the weekend and sunny.


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## Tiddlypom (5 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I just wish the government would be honest, if the NHS is not going to issue recovery care to those that are older and or already have serious health conditions at least tell us.
		
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This already happens, and it will happen more often when there are many fewer ICU beds available than patients who need them.

Best prioritise those patients who have the best chance of recovery. And  as alluded to earlier on another thread by someone who has worked in this field, doctors are only human. If one of those patients is deemed to have suffered a self inflicted injury, say for instance after from falling from a horse during lock down, then they may be prioritised lower than other patients with equal need of the bed who are not considered to have been behaving unwisely before becoming ill.


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## Cinnamontoast (5 April 2020)

Triage sorts who gets seen quickly, not the doctor's moral conscience. Imagine if I'd had my accident this year, I was only catching in, not dangerous per se. Should I be left with bits of my leg falling off and someone else prioritised because they have cv19?


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## Tiddlypom (5 April 2020)

I am taking about patients with an equal need of an ICU bed in the current situation.


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## Gingerwitch (5 April 2020)

So where would a learner driver fit into this, i was especially bothered by one whom was really out of control.  Round my way the local council is still cutting grass on those ride on mowers so  if these had an incident would they currently be treated.


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## Gingerwitch (5 April 2020)

Tiddlypom said:



			I am taking about patients with an equal need of an ICU bed in the current situation.
		
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I still would like to know why Prince Charlie and Cam had C19 tests when front line cannot get them


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## Abi90 (5 April 2020)

Yes I’m not sure triage is allowed to be conducted on whether the doctor thought what the person was doing was moral or not. It’s entirely based on the extent of the person’s injuries and likelihood of recovery. 

For example, in a war zone where there a multiple casualties a military doctor would still have to treat the enemy first (even if that person was a terrorist) if their injuries were greater and needed more urgent care than their own soldiers. Triage is supposed to be morally impartial.


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## Gingerwitch (5 April 2020)

Abi90 said:



			Yes I’m not sure triage is allowed to be conducted on whether the doctor thought what the person was doing was moral or not. It’s entirely based on the extent of the person’s injuries and likelihood of recovery.

For example, in a war zone where there a multiple casualties a military doctor would still have to treat the enemy first (even if that person was a terrorist) if their injuries were greater and needed more urgent care than their own soldiers. Triage is supposed to be morally impartial.
		
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Thanks for that, that must be an awful call to make, especially if the enemy has just been shooting at your and yours and then your going to give them the first wave of treatment.


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## Tiddlypom (5 April 2020)

Abi90 said:



			Yes I’m not sure triage is allowed to be conducted on whether the doctor thought what the person was doing was moral or not. It’s entirely based on the extent of the person’s injuries and likelihood of recovery.
		
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Absolutely true. But if there are two patients with *equal* clinical need, and just one bed available, who should get it? These dilemmas are faced every day by our medics even in non corona times. And now, when we are being exhorted to stay at home?

In normal times medics, who tbh are often absolutely barking and into crackpot dangerous pastimes themselves, do not want us to lead boring sanitised lives. But just for now, could we please just stay home.


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## Cinnamontoast (5 April 2020)

Bonkers, but Firearms officers in the U.K. have to try to save the life of anyone they’ve just shot. They’re trained up to paramedic technician level.


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## Tiddlypom (5 April 2020)

Yep, and medics will pull out all the stops to save, for instance, a convicted child murderer who gets duffed up in prison.


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## blitznbobs (5 April 2020)

Ok lots of pseudoscience here... flattening the curve will not shorten the epidemic it will lengthen it. But it will enable the NHS to deal with the numbers - if 5000 get sick every day they’ll probably cope or thereabouts if 50000 get sick they won’t. This means we need  the 50000 (or whatever) people to get sick over a longer period of time... thus flattening the curve and extending the epidemic in time. But avoiding AVOIDABLE deaths ... not deaths but avoidable ones. At the moment there is no exit strategy which is why the government waited as long as it could to impose lock down... thus shortening the time we are cooped up for... thus increasing the chance that people might put up with it. They are feeding us ‘3 weeks’ to see how it goes cos saying 12 weeks will pretty much ensure non compliance but 3 weeks is nothing in the light of this epidemic. As someone who will likely have to make the choice of who gets a ventilator or not I’d really rather there were enough to go round ... I think seeing mass graves of people who died avoidably but for the lack of an itu bed will be pretty dire for anyone’s mental health.  So please stay at home - avoid everyone you don’t live with and help my and my colleagues mental health by not making us make such decisions .


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## SO1 (5 April 2020)

My concern is no longer about the possibility of not being able to see my horse for 6 months or more of lockdown but that they will take away the opportunity to have outdoor exercise. The thought of being stuck indoors indoors for 24 hours a day on my own for months on end, makes me feel glad just to be able to leave the house for an hour for a run.

If that comes to that even if going to the yard counts as horse care, riding would come under outdoor exercise so would be banned?


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## Berpisc (5 April 2020)

Cinnamontoast said:



			Bonkers, but Firearms officers in the U.K. have to try to save the life of anyone they’ve just shot. They’re trained up to paramedic technician level.
		
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Interesting, didn't know that though it makes sense in a civilian context.


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## Winters100 (5 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			My concern is no longer about the possibility of not being able to see my horse for 6 months or more of lockdown but that they will take away the opportunity to have outdoor exercise. The thought of being stuck indoors indoors for 24 hours a day on my own for months on end, makes me feel glad just to be able to leave the house for an hour for a run.

If that comes to that even if going to the yard counts as horse care, riding would come under outdoor exercise so would be banned?
		
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If they go along the route of France you cannot go to your horse unless it is kept somewhere with no one to provide basic care.  Doesn't matter if all they can do is give hay and water as I understand. My friend there keeps her horse 30 m from her door, but because the yard is manned it is prohibited.  And in several countries you may not walk your dog other than to take it outside to do its business within a very short distance from your door.  But I think if the vast majority show that they will keep to the spirit of the regulations it won't get to that.


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## Upthecreek (5 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			If they go along the route of France you cannot go to your horse unless it is kept somewhere with no one to provide basic care.  Doesn't matter if all they can do is give hay and water as I understand. My friend there keeps her horse 30 m from her door, but because the yard is manned it is prohibited.  And in several countries you may not walk your dog other than to take it outside to do its business within a very short distance from your door.  But I think if the vast majority show that they will keep to the spirit of the regulations it won't get to that.
		
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I hope it won’t come to that but today people have still been coming to two beauty spots very near where I live. They were questioned by the security guards and turned away but some had travelled from London (over two hours drive), Southampton, Salisbury as well as more local (but still around half an hours drive). Some were abusive and I believe their car registration numbers are being passed to the police.


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## criso (5 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			If they go along the route of France you cannot go to your horse unless it is kept somewhere with no one to provide basic care.  Doesn't matter if all they can do is give hay and water as I understand. My friend there keeps her horse 30 m from her door, but because the yard is manned it is prohibited.  And in several countries you may not walk your dog other than to take it outside to do its business within a very short distance from your door.  But I think if the vast majority show that they will keep to the spirit of the regulations it won't get to that.
		
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I believe the situation in France is different with much more structured horse care.  There are many more variants on DIY part and assisted here. For example I have no cover on bank holidays and weekends not because I choose that option but because it is not available.  If I don't go up, I would have to get another livery to do mine as a favour which is fine in an emergency but not over a period of time.  Plus that livery would have to travel to the yard.   And then how do you police that and check who really needs to provides essential care and who doesn't.


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## Winters100 (5 April 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			I hope it won’t come to that but today people have still been coming to two beauty spots very near where I live. They were questioned by the security guards and turned away but some had travelled from London (over two hours drive), Southampton, Salisbury as well as more local (but still around half an hours drive). Some were abusive and I believe their car registration numbers are being passed to the police.
		
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Wow  What is wrong with people?  How is this difficult to understand?


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## Winters100 (5 April 2020)

criso said:



			I believe the situation in France is different with much more structured horse care.  There are many more variants on DIY part and assisted here. For example I have no cover on bank holidays and weekends not because I choose that option but because it is not available.  If I don't go up, I would have to get another livery to do mine as a favour which is fine in an emergency but not over a period of time.  Plus that livery would have to travel to the yard.   And then how do you police that and check who really needs to provides essential care and who doesn't.
		
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Yes, this is a very good point.  I am in Poland and I have never heard of a yard offering DIY, and I believe that it is the same in France.  All yards here are 'full care', but including only the carousel rather than lunging or riding.


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## blitznbobs (5 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Wow  What is wrong with people?  How is this difficult to understand?
		
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there is none as blind as those who will not see.


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## criso (5 April 2020)

I saw a lot of cyclists today near the yard who judging by the confused looks and checking of maps on phone were not local.  Much busier than usual for a day without an organised ride.  It's a interesting question with bikes as I assume that if you are a fit and experienced cyclist, you can get quite far from home just on average ride but they could end up quite far out of their area.


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## Upthecreek (5 April 2020)

I think we have a very big problem now that Scotland’s Chief Medical Officer, the person giving people the instruction to stay at home, has been caught out for going to her second home over an hours drive from her primary residence the last two weekends. How does she have a shred of credibility now? 

I have never seen anything quite so cringe worthy as the press conference where she fessed up and apologised 😱 And Nicola Sturgeon says she still has her job because her advice is so valuable - the woman can’t even follow her own advice! I’m sure because of her actions many people in Scotland will be wondering why the hell they should stay at home.


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## SO1 (5 April 2020)

I know quite a few people who normally cycle to work, obviously not at the moment as they are working from home, but one of them told me 40km is an easy cycle for people who do it regularly and he does when he goes on cycling holidays with no problem at all. I expect people are getting bored being indoors and not being able to visit family and friends and just doing what they can do which for people is outdoor exercise. I would never normally go on three hour walk but as I am not going to yard at the weekends I did today, it was actually not busy possibly because I went at lunch time. Running after work is more busy but that is probably because everyone who would normally go to a gym or play team sports or any sport really is now running to try and keep fit.




criso said:



			I saw a lot of cyclists today near the yard who judging by the confused looks and checking of maps on phone were not local.  Much busier than usual for a day without an organised ride.  It's a interesting question with bikes as I assume that if you are a fit and experienced cyclist, you can get quite far from home just on average ride but they could end up quite far out of their area.
		
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## paddy555 (5 April 2020)

[/QUOTE]


Winters100 said:



			Wow  What is wrong with people?  How is this difficult to understand?
		
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yesterday or the day before  there was a head nurse talking about the 2 nurses who had died that day and asking people to stay home. It was very emotive and one would have thought surely it would have got the message home but apparently not. 
I totally fail to understand why people cannot realise key workers and the NHS staff have to go into this each day but, for the most part, all these others have to do is sit on the sofa and play  video games.


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## Winters100 (5 April 2020)

yesterday or the day before  there was a head nurse talking about the 2 nurses who had died that day and asking people to stay home. It was very emotive and one would have thought surely it would have got the message home but apparently not.
I totally fail to understand why people cannot realise key workers and the NHS staff have to go into this each day but, for the most part, all these others have to do is sit on the sofa and play  video games.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree.  But I would add (while being aware that this is an unpopular view) that we cannot view ourselves as somehow exempt as horse owners.  My firm opinion is that anyone who is doing more than visiting their horses to provide essential basic care as quickly as possible is not acting within the spirit of the instructions which are to stay home as much as possible. We may think that there is no risk, but everyone riding a bicycle or visiting a national park probably thinks the same.  Of course if horses are DIY or 'special needs' then it will be necessary to visit, but as you correctly say, if hearing of 2 nurses dying does not convince people to stay home and let the yards take care of their horses where possible then I am not sure what will.


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## Frumpoon (5 April 2020)

yesterday or the day before  there was a head nurse talking about the 2 nurses who had died that day and asking people to stay home. It was very emotive and one would have thought surely it would have got the message home but apparently not.
I totally fail to understand why people cannot realise key workers and the NHS staff have to go into this each day but, for the most part, all these others have to do is sit on the sofa and play  video games.[/QUOTE]

Because for a lot of people who live in unpleasant or less than ideal circumstances the potential consequences are not worse than the lives they have right now

It's  easy for us to judge if we live in nice houses with a bedroom each and a spacious shared communal area such a space a lounge. But if you  live 5 or 8 or 12 to a room, or if you have no hope for the future, or live with an abuser the unknown of a virus is less scary than the present


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## SO1 (5 April 2020)

I think non compliance is due to perceived risk. Most people are selfish, they don't really care that much if some stranger dies. They do care about risks to themselves, young healthy adults believe that they are at low risk of being killed by the virus so less likely to change their habits. People in rural areas feel they are safe as they don't come in contact with many people so they continue as normal. 

Unless people feel their life or their immediate family is in danger then it is very difficult to get them to change their habits. 

I also think some activities like sunbathing in groups are more young people activities. I went for a walk today & the only people I saw sunbathing/loitering not respecting social distancing were young adults. 

I do feel sorry for people who have to work in construction sites & shops or other places where social distancing is difficult who do not have PPE. 

The heathcare workers who have died may not have been infected at work as patients & colleagues may not have been their only contacts over the last 2/3weeks or before the lockdown. Family members who could be aysymptomatic could have passed on the virus. The schools have not been shut that long. Hopefully now more places are shut & people are staying at home more the death & infection rate will drop. 



Frumpoon said:



			yesterday or the day before  there was a head nurse talking about the 2 nurses who had died that day and asking people to stay home. It was very emotive and one would have thought surely it would have got the message home but apparently not.
I totally fail to understand why people cannot realise key workers and the NHS staff have to go into this each day but, for the most part, all these others have to do is sit on the sofa and play  video games.
		
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Because for a lot of people who live in unpleasant or less than ideal circumstances the potential consequences are not worse than the lives they have right now

It's  easy for us to judge if we live in nice houses with a bedroom each and a spacious shared communal area such a space a lounge. But if you  live 5 or 8 or 12 to a room, or if you have no hope for the future, or live with an abuser the unknown of a virus is less scary than the present[/QUOTE]


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## ester (5 April 2020)

criso said:



			I saw a lot of cyclists today near the yard who judging by the confused looks and checking of maps on phone were not local.  Much busier than usual for a day without an organised ride.  It's a interesting question with bikes as I assume that if you are a fit and experienced cyclist, you can get quite far from home just on average ride but they could end up quite far out of their area.
		
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That'll be me sometimes, I am a bit too used to 'following the group' which is actually quite nice without having to worry about where you are going. But it means I am using the saved tracks on viewranger to check I am going the right way,, particularly if I have gone over the A14  ! I'm a middling fit average cyclist so 25 miles would be a usual weekend ride, doing nearer 50 in the summer.

Given that we aren't group riding which took up most of last year I have also dusted off the mountain bike so I can cycle the byways so I check those on the map too.

I do purposely try to go at times when I think it will be quieter though and have come across very few people given the population numbers. went out on the road bike about 5.30 as was getting jobs done and everyone else had done their exercise for the day by then


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## criso (5 April 2020)

ester said:



			I'm a middling fit average cyclist so 25 miles would be a usual weekend ride, doing nearer 50 in the summer.
		
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That's what I was pondering.  That sort of mileage would easily get someone in London out into Herts.  If you drove to have a walk or walk your dogs in that area, it's been decided that  is unacceptable but on a bike you could easily be doing that.

That's not a criticism, I'm just musing.


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## ester (5 April 2020)

Oh absolutely, I'm mostly limited by seatbone conditioning, 70 was my max last year, with cake stops . I wasn't really doing more than the 16 mile round trip to work and back this time last year so you can get up to significant distance relatively quickly. 
Its part of the reason for taking the other bike out, I put more effort in over a shorter distance, not least because it's probably 3x the weight!


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## fredflop (6 April 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			I hope it won’t come to that but today people have still been coming to two beauty spots very near where I live. They were questioned by the security guards and turned away but some had travelled from London (over two hours drive), Southampton, Salisbury as well as more local (but still around half an hours drive). Some were abusive and I believe their car registration numbers are being passed to the police.
		
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stonehenge and Avebury by any chance?


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## Pippity (6 April 2020)

One of my friends on my yard did his weekly half-hour visit to his horse in the field over the weekend, and found a total stranger wandering out of the yard. When he confronted her, she said that she'd been following the 'footpath' and it just ended on the yard, so what was she to do??? The 'footpath' is the yard's farm ride, the entrance to which is behind a gate, with every indication that it's private property and no indication that it's a public foothpath.

Considering even the horses' owners aren't allowed onto the yard proper, he gave her an absolute blasting.

I appreciate that people are going stir crazy stuck at home (god knows, I am - just look at my shaved head for proof!) but some people are so entirely lacking in common sense that I think enforcement may have to be the way to go.


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## scats (6 April 2020)

My friends were out in one of our fields yesterday doing general maintanence for about an hour and witnessed 8 different sets of people that they’d never seen before using the footpath, getting lost and then wandering into one of the paddocks. Friend confronted one man, who was actually really nice she said, but told him that before he’d touched the mini gate to get through the field where the path is,  7 other sets of people had touched it in the last hour.  He said he genuinely hadn’t considered that at all.


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## JennBags (6 April 2020)

So people aren't allowed to get lost or go somewhere they've not been before?  FFS.


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## Amymay (6 April 2020)

JennBags said:



			So people aren't allowed to get lost or go somewhere they've not been before?  FFS.
		
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I think, ideally, in the current circumstances- no 😉


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## JennBags (6 April 2020)

Amymay said:



			I think, ideally, in the current circumstances- no 😉
		
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I doubt the getting lost was deliberate, and if you are having to walk from home when you're not used to it, then you're more likely to get lost.   You get blasted if you drive to places you know, so you walk locally where you might not know the routes and get blasted for getting lost.  No-win situation for some isn't it.


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## honetpot (6 April 2020)

JennBags said:



			So people aren't allowed to get lost or go somewhere they've not been before?  FFS.
		
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No not really. If they get lost someone may have to be sent to find them, and unless they know the area well, going somehere they have never been before makes the chances of being lost greater.
  I am always astounded that people set off somewhere with no food or drink, no descent footwear and expect the countryside to be like a park, with a flat walking surface and farms are not places of work. 
 Then if they have food and drink  they drop the rubbish, never take it home, and leave faeces, not dog, dogs don't usually wipe their bums with tissues paper, on the track. Yes on the footpath. Ugh.


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## sport horse (6 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I still would like to know why Prince Charlie and Cam had C19 tests when front line cannot get them
		
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Because he is the future King of England and Camilla is his wife.


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## Flicker (6 April 2020)

sport horse said:



			Because he is the future King of England and Camilla is his wife.
		
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Although I think the Queen would prefer Wills and Kate.


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## Pippity (6 April 2020)

sport horse said:



			Because he is the future King of England and Camilla is his wife.
		
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I'd certainly consider a nurse more useful. Both in the general scheme of things and at this specific moment.


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## Flicker (6 April 2020)

JennBags said:



			I doubt the getting lost was deliberate, and if you are having to walk from home when you're not used to it, then you're more likely to get lost.   You get blasted if you drive to places you know, so you walk locally where you might not know the routes and get blasted for getting lost.  No-win situation for some isn't it.
		
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No, not really.  The advice is to be out for the minimum amount of time that is absolutely necessary for exercise.  Nobody sets out to get lost (except maybe my PIL but OH has them on a short leash right now).  But, if you are wandering aimlessly through the countryside with no idea where you are going, it indicates that you are probably further from home than you should be.  An hour’s walk shouldn’t take you further from home than a couple of miles.

And as for cyclists going miles and miles, just get a turbo trainer FFS.  I cycle, and I’ve got one on order precisely because I don’t want to be ’that cyclist’ that everyone on social media is currently getting in a froth over.


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## Flicker (6 April 2020)

Pippity said:



			I'd certainly consider a nurse more useful. Both in the general scheme of things and at this specific moment.
		
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I would agree.


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## Jill's Gym Karma (6 April 2020)

Flicker said:



			I would agree.
		
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Charles is heir to the throne. If you have a Royal Family they are treated differently, that's the whole point.

I'm not a monarchist (far from it).


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## ester (6 April 2020)

Being on a turbo trainer does nothing for my mental health or my vit D levels so I will continue to cycle and to commute to work on it while permitted. 
They are also pretty expensive.
Also those who looked several weeks ago for said turbo trainers (bike group people anyway) struggled to find any at all.


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## Gingerwitch (6 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Yes, this is a very good point.  I am in Poland and I have never heard of a yard offering DIY, and I believe that it is the same in France.  All yards here are 'full care', but including only the carousel rather than lunging or riding.
		
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So if you are in Poland how on earth can you comment so strongly on UK livery yards when all your yards are "full care" but only the carousel rather than lunging or riding.

So in essence you have just admitted to preaching at everyone about items you know naff all about.


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## honetpot (6 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I still would like to know why Prince Charlie and Cam had C19 tests when front line cannot get them
		
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Charles and Camilia their life is also their live in job. They have lots of staff, some older people who they come in to contact with, and old parents which include the Queen and Prince Philip, they are not that young themseleves. Charles last saw his mum on the 12th of March. So it would have been useful to know who they had seen and when as they have seperate engagements, the fact Camilla did not test positive shows that they can not have been to together much, if at all when he was at is most infectious.   The HRH's may not mean a lot to you, but to to alot of people, especially the old they mean an aweful lot.
 I am far more annoyed with politicans who seem to think that the rules do not apply to them and didn't prepare well enough for this in the first place. The lack of PPE is the scandel, and the unjoined way testing has been handled within the NHS where departments who were capable of doing it, Cambridge has a huge amount of science labs based on the hospital site, were not repurposed. Two tests in comparison is not worth having a dig at two people, did Boris need to be tested, if he had been Joe Bloggs, probabely not, he would just have been told to self isolate.


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## Gingerwitch (6 April 2020)

honetpot said:



			Charles and Camilia their life is also their live in job. They have lots of staff, some older people who they come in to contact with, and old parents which include the Queen and Prince Philip, they are not that young themseleves. Charles last saw his mum on the 12th of March. So it would have been useful to know who they had seen and when as they have seperate engagements, the fact Camilla did not test positive shows that they can not have been to together much, if at all when he was at is most infectious.   The HRH's may not mean a lot to you, but to to alot of people, especially the old they mean an aweful lot.
I am far more annoyed with politicans who seem to think that the rules do not apply to them and didn't prepare well enough for this in the first place. The lack of PPE is the scandel, and the unjoined way testing has been handled within the NHS where departments who were capable of doing it, Cambridge has a huge amount of science labs based on the hospital site, were not repurposed. Two tests in comparison is not worth having a dig at two people, did Boris need to be tested, if he had been Joe Bloggs, probabely not, he would just have been told to self isolate.
		
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Thanks HP, I can see those points.  I am glad that the Scottish Health person has had the gumpton to resign as that would have been an achilies heal for this weekend i.e. if you do not practice what you preach.

I also agree with the PPE scandal so is it not about time we backed Britain and got our workforce making these vital pieces of equipment, and as to cost over the far east, this is the chance we can take to start to help ourselves.  Do we really care if a garment costs £1 more at the moment if we can a)get it and b) we are putting money into our own Country.

I also do not understand why the front line are not getting routine tests.  Especially after the Daily Fail ran the doctor article yesterday, and that shocked me when an unidentified doctor carried on working whilst feeling ill.  Now do you a. believe the story or is it made up ? and if it is a factual account then someone should be being brought to account for spreading the virus within the NHS.  Not sure myself if it was meant to be a look at me aren't i a hero to carry on whilst if felt ill, but not so ill I needed to be at home.  How the flip did she know this and as a Doctor,(if its a true account) why on earth did she carry on working ??


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## Pearlsasinger (6 April 2020)

stormox said:



			Its no worse or more difficult isolating for those with a footpath through their land than it is for people who live next to a road!!
		
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Well, yes it is actually.  My neighbours  have to spend time in their field which the path bisects, because their donkeys and poultry live there,  the path goes through a wooden gate from the road and passes their buildings very closely, within touching distance.  Yesterday, I watched a family trying to feed the donkeys carrots (and almost getting their toddler kicked in the process).  they were not just walking through.  Nobody needs to spend time in the road, or even on the pavement except for their own exercise/shopping outings.


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## scats (6 April 2020)

JennBags said:



			So people aren't allowed to get lost or go somewhere they've not been before?  FFS.
		
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Is this aimed at me?
I didn’t state that people couldn’t get lost, nor go somewhere they have never been.  I was just remarking how many people are now exploring areas that they previously haven’t been before.  I find your reply a bit rude if it was aimed at my comment as I don’t think I really deserved that.


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## Pearlsasinger (6 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Thanks HP, I can see those points.  I am glad that the Scottish Health person has had the gumpton to resign as that would have been an achilies heal for this weekend i.e. if you do not practice what you preach.

I also agree with the PPE scandal so is it not about time we backed Britain and got our workforce making these vital pieces of equipment, and as to cost over the far east, this is the chance we can take to start to help ourselves.  Do we really care if a garment costs £1 more at the moment if we can a)get it and b) we are putting money into our own Country.

I also do not understand why the front line are not getting routine tests.  Especially after the Daily Fail ran the doctor article yesterday, and that shocked me when an unidentified doctor carried on working whilst feeling ill.  Now do you a. believe the story or is it made up ? and if it is a factual account then someone should be being brought to account for spreading the virus within the NHS.  Not sure myself if it was meant to be a look at me aren't i a hero to carry on whilst if felt ill, but not so ill I needed to be at home.  How the flip did she know this and as a Doctor,(if its a true account) why on earth did she carry on working ??
		
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I have just heard on the BBC this morning that one of the nurses who died recently, was exhibiting symptoms but went back to work to do an extra shift because they were so short staffed.  Her main symptoms was fatigue/aching joints which she put down to tiredness after a 12 hour shift, so she probably didn't even wonder if she had C-19 but the medical staff are working such long hours that their judgement of their own illness is probably flawed.

I heard yesterday that a distant relative who is a paediatric oncologist has had her annual leave cancelled.  I know that just before the lockdown, she missed a family celebration weekend (her mother's 70th birthday) because she had to change her plans and go into work.  Hospital staff particularly but not solely are all shattered already.


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## Gingerwitch (6 April 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Well, yes it is actually.  My neighbours  have to spend time in their field which the path bisects, because their donkeys and poultry live there,  the path goes through a wooden gate from the road and passes their buildings very closely, within touching distance.  Yesterday, I watched a family trying to feed the donkeys carrots (and almost getting their toddler kicked in the process).  they were not just walking through.  Nobody needs to spend time in the road, or even on the pavement except for their own exercise/shopping outings.
		
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Even our local drug dealer has moved, he used to stand at the traffic lights but he has not been there for a week !


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## Gingerwitch (6 April 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I have just heard on the BBC this morning that one of the nurses who died recently, was exhibiting symptoms but went back to work to do an extra shift because they were so short staffed.  Her main symptoms was fatigue/aching joints which she put down to tiredness after a 12 hour shift, so she probably didn't even wonder if she had C-19 but the medical staff are working such long hours that their judgement of their own illness is probably flawed.

I heard yesterday that a distant relative who is a paediatric oncologist has had her annual leave cancelled.  I know that just before the lockdown, she missed a family celebration weekend (her mother's 70th birthday) because she had to change her plans and go into work.  Hospital staff particularly but not solely are all shattered already.
		
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It does make you wonder though if we had the tests would many of the staff be at work, thus re-leaving the ones that are working a massive amount of hours and again if we had the tests then the ones that need to be isolating would also know what to do.


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## Winters100 (6 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			So if you are in Poland how on earth can you comment so strongly on UK livery yards when all your yards are "full care" but only the carousel rather than lunging or riding.

So in essence you have just admitted to preaching at everyone about items you know naff all about.
		
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I kept horses in the UK for more than 30 years, both at home and on yards, so I believe that I am more than familiar with the challenges.  I also have immediate family, a business and 16 staff in the UK, so I have a strong interest in the UK situation not getting more out of hand than it already is.

GW, I do not know why you are unable to accept that people feel strongly about the situation that we are in.  Everyone is having to make sacrifices, but your sole complaints seem to be about other people somehow having it easier than you, whether it is DIYs being able to visit their horses or the heir to the throne receiving a test.  You and I are very different in our approach, because I see such attitudes as childish and small minded, while you see them as somehow striving for fairness.   I can only suggest that you do not read anything further that I post since you are unlikely to agree with it. I shall certainly not bother to read any more of yours.


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## Gingerwitch (6 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			I kept horses in the UK for more than 30 years, both at home and on yards, so I believe that I am more than familiar with the challenges.  I also have immediate family, a business and 16 staff in the UK, so I have a strong interest in the UK situation not getting more out of hand than it already is.

GW, I do not know why you are unable to accept that people feel strongly about the situation that we are in.  Everyone is having to make sacrifices, but your sole complaints seem to be about other people somehow having it easier than you, whether it is DIYs being able to visit their horses or the heir to the throne receiving a test.  You and I are very different in our approach, because I see such attitudes as childish and small minded, while you see them as somehow striving for fairness.   I can only suggest that you do not read anything further that I post since you are unlikely to agree with it. I shall certainly not bother to read any more of yours.
		
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Thats the best news I have had all day  not my fault you have been caught out, as you do not even live in the UK so everything you are peddling is at best second hand.


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## Michen (6 April 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I have just heard on the BBC this morning that one of the nurses who died recently, was exhibiting symptoms but went back to work to do an extra shift because they were so short staffed.  Her main symptoms was fatigue/aching joints which she put down to tiredness after a 12 hour shift, so she probably didn't even wonder if she had C-19 but the medical staff are working such long hours that their judgement of their own illness is probably flawed.

I heard yesterday that a distant relative who is a paediatric oncologist has had her annual leave cancelled.  I know that just before the lockdown, she missed a family celebration weekend (her mother's 70th birthday) because she had to change her plans and go into work.  Hospital staff particularly but not solely are all shattered already.
		
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This paints a picture of it being rather more hectic than it is currently. Both brother and SIL have been redeployed to corona cases (doctors). They are not yet over worked or over whelmed and both are in central London.


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## Gingerwitch (6 April 2020)

Michen said:



			This paints a picture of it being rather more hectic than it is currently. Both brother and SIL have been redeployed to corona cases (doctors). They are not yet over worked or over whelmed and both are in central London.
		
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The girl whom we were reffering too, on the local news had died last week was from the West Midlands, she went to work as the hospital was so short staffed.


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## Michen (6 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			The girl whom we were reffering too, on the local news had died last week was from the West Midlands, she went to work as the hospital was so short staffed.
		
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yes, which is not unusual in normal circumstances even before covid 19 within the NHS.

I am merely saying what I know directly from my family who are at the epicentre of this in London, that it is not yet at that point and they are operating within capacity as much as they ever are.


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## flying_high (6 April 2020)

Michen said:



			yes, which is not unusual in normal circumstances even before covid 19 within the NHS.

I am merely saying what I know directly from my family who are at the epicentre of this in London, that it is not yet at that point and they are operating within capacity as much as they ever are.
		
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Michen, is that relating to the specific hospitals family members are associated with? Or is that a broad statement across all London hospitals? (I know all hospitals monitor the capacity of all neighbouring hospitals). Thanks


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## honetpot (6 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Thanks HP, I can see those points.  I am glad that the Scottish Health person has had the gumpton to resign as that would have been an achilies heal for this weekend i.e. if you do not practice what you preach.

I also agree with the PPE scandal so is it not about time we backed Britain and got our workforce making these vital pieces of equipment, and as to cost over the far east, this is the chance we can take to start to help ourselves.  Do we really care if a garment costs £1 more at the moment if we can a)get it and b) we are putting money into our own Country.

I also do not understand why the front line are not getting routine tests.  Especially after the Daily Fail ran the doctor article yesterday, and that shocked me when an unidentified doctor carried on working whilst feeling ill.  Now do you a. believe the story or is it made up ? and if it is a factual account then someone should be being brought to account for spreading the virus within the NHS.  Not sure myself if it was meant to be a look at me aren't i a hero to carry on whilst if felt ill, but not so ill I needed to be at home.  How the flip did she know this and as a Doctor,(if its a true account) why on earth did she carry on working ??
		
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  I agree as a doctor she should not have been at work, but the reality is unless you know when you have become infected, you have up to five days when you have no symptoms but could infect someone, and there are the 30% who may never get any symptoms, so the damage if was perhaps already done. If someone knew she was ill they should have sent her home.
There is a lot of pressure to go to work, when perhaps you should stay at home.  There has long been an attitude that 'ringing in sick' is not pulling your weight or skiving off, in the past I have been foolish to go in to work when I have not been well, usually with tonsillitis when the kids were small. People talk about you when your off sick, you have a return to work interview, which has to be with your line manager, it becomes easier to go in sick than stay at home. I once threw up on the way to work, but still went because to ring half an hour a shift would black list me, so I turned up and said I was not fit to work, so they sent me home.
 My friend now thinks she has had CV-19, she works in A&E, she thought she was just tired from working long shifts and then doing some extra days. I really do not have a solution apart from treating everyone staff and patients as if they have it,at all times, like we assume that any blood or bodily fluids could cause hepititis or HIV, but it seems we do not have enough PPE now to do that.
  Testing at the moment will ony show if they are negative on the day the test is taken, I have no idea how long it takes for the markers to show in the blood of someone who has been infected.


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## Gingerwitch (6 April 2020)

Michen said:



			yes, which is not unusual in normal circumstances even before covid 19 within the NHS.

I am merely saying what I know directly from my family who are at the epicentre of this in London, that it is not yet at that point and they are operating within capacity as much as they ever are.
		
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There will always be better organised departments even with the same staffing levels and equipment, some teams just click.  I hope your family stay safe and are getting all the PPE they require, I just wish we would hurry up and get this testing sorted out, at least you would not be fighting with one hand tied to your left ankle.


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## Gingerwitch (6 April 2020)

honetpot said:



			I agree as a doctor she should not have been at work, but the reality is unless you know when you have become infected, you have up to five days when you have no symptoms but could infect someone, and there are the 30% who may never get any symptoms, so the damage if was perhaps already done. If someone knew she was ill they should have sent her home.
There is a lot of pressure to go to work, when perhaps you should stay at home.  There has long been an attitude that 'ringing in sick' is not pulling your weight or skiving off, in the past I have been foolish to go in to work when I have not been well, usually with tonsillitis when the kids were small. People talk about you when your off sick, you have a return to work interview, which has to be with your line manager, it becomes easier to go in sick than stay at home. I once threw up on the way to work, but still went because to ring half an hour a shift would black list me, so I turned up and said I was not fit to work, so they sent me home.
My friend now thinks she has had CV-19, she works in A&E, she thought she was just tired from working long shifts and then doing some extra days. I really do not have a solution apart from treating everyone staff and patients as if they have it,at all times, like we assume that any blood or bodily fluids could cause hepititis or HIV, but it seems we do not have enough PPE now to do that.
  Testing at the moment will ony show if they are negative on the day the test is taken, I have no idea how long it takes for the markers to show in the blood of someone who has been infected.
		
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It is awful especially when you are actually in a place where people get sick.  Most work places are the same, but we are not dealing with the sick or those with a compromised immunity.  At my workplace even if you keeled over at your desk, they would step over you and then complain that you had died before you did x y or z.  One of our new employees went to self isolate on his first day, that was over 3 weeks ago, he has not come back yet and no one in HR can say if he is coming back or not. He cannot have been furloughed because he was not employed by x date, so all he can do is try to claim unemployment.


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## Michen (6 April 2020)

flying_high said:



			Michen, is that relating to the specific hospitals family members are associated with? Or is that a broad statement across all London hospitals? (I know all hospitals monitor the capacity of all neighbouring hospitals). Thanks
		
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Across two regarding direct experience- Charing Cross and St Mary’s (both Imperial) though he did say it seemed consistent with colleagues at other hospitals he’d spoken with.


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## Dusty 123 (6 April 2020)

I feel sorry for anyone that can’t see there horses due to the corona virus. Were I live  3 yard was shut down by the police  there only 30 minutes form my yard . Luckily my yard is still open to owners.


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## Tiddlypom (6 April 2020)

Going back to turbo trainers for bikes, if you can still get hold of one.

Son no 1 bought an interactive one about a month ago. It cost £180 and is ridiculously good quality for the money. He has his spare bike fitted to it. He is ‘racing’ against fellow users in real time, and the resistance automatically adjusts for hills etc, so it is remarkably realistic.






https://www.halfords.com/cycling/tu...rs/elite-novo-smart-turbo-trainer-461874.html

He gets his aerobic exercise here at home (actually in a spare stable/store room) complete with a fan and his laptop. Then he can go out for a walk later with the dog for some fresh air.

ETA He also needed to buy a special turbo trainer rear tyre, but apart from that his spare bike is set up as normal.


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## ester (6 April 2020)

That was my other reason for not wanting to, I don't have a suitable spare . I do know some of the boys are enjoying similar/poss the same as your son on their spares though. 
My triathlete friends are doing it too so they can then run for their outdoor exercise but they already had trainers. 
Currently sat at work in my cycle gear as it doesn't seem worth getting changed for half a day, so long as I don't have to answer the door to too many couriers lol. It was a bloody lovely pedal in though.


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## wren123 (6 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest?

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what?

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence
		
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Let me explain, the social isolation is for the benefit of the whole of society to cut down the infection rates of society as a whole so the nhs can cope with covid 19 and also other sick people, not that hard to understand!


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## wren123 (6 April 2020)

Michen said:



			Across two regarding direct experience- Charing Cross and St Mary’s (both Imperial) though he did say it seemed consistent with colleagues at other hospitals he’d spoken with.
		
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I'm pleased this is the case at the moment, I've heard this too from a nurse friend in London. However other important tests, operations and treatments are being put on hold at the moment to facilitate this. So we need to stick to the social isolation to keep rates down and help the nhs.


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## stormox (6 April 2020)

I have a friend who lived in China for 30 years, only returned last year but obviously still has most friends living there.
He says most Chinese officials and ordinary people do not think British and other Western countries have the discipline and respect for orders as the Chinese and think more about ourselves than the State.  Therefore we will not be able to obey instructions to the letter and "lockdown"  in UK etc will fail....
Maybe he's right according to the differing interpretations on this and other forums...


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## paddy555 (6 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Thats the best news I have had all day  not my fault you have been caught out, as you do not even live in the UK so everything you are peddling is at best second hand.
		
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when you Pm'd me recently about posters having 2 ID's you described "pack mentality" and that now this is the worst you have ever known. That unless you were one of the in crowd you were basically hounded off. You also admitted you did not really like the forum. 

Is your above comment the sort of thing you were referring to?


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## Flicker (6 April 2020)

ester said:



			Being on a turbo trainer does nothing for my mental health or my vit D levels so I will continue to cycle and to commute to work on it while permitted.
They are also pretty expensive.
Also those who looked several weeks ago for said turbo trainers (bike group people anyway) struggled to find any at all.
		
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It’s not really about your mental health or Vitamin D levels at the moment, though, is it?  It is about doing what is best for society as a whole.  And that means reducing to an absolute minimum the time spent outdoors.  It is also about not doing things that could potentially put you at risk of needing the emergency services.  So, if it is safer to drive to work, and you have the means to do so, then you should choose this option.  I have a beautiful road bike that I am desperately looking forward to getting out on, but I also don’t want to fall off it and need an ambulance.  So my OH and I go for a run instead, while I await the delivery of my turbo trainer.

It is incumbent on us all to make the best, and safest, choices for the good of society.  Not what works best for us as individuals.

This is a short period of time in the grand scheme of things, and the sacrifices people are being asked to make are far from onerous.


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## Gingerwitch (6 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			when you Pm'd me recently about posters having 2 ID's you described "pack mentality" and that now this is the worst you have ever known. That unless you were one of the in crowd you were basically hounded off. You also admitted you did not really like the forum.

Is your above comment the sort of thing you were referring to?
		
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Hi Paddy when I pm'd you, it was to reply to your ask about 2 accounts. some of the others that post on here do,or those that get banned come back as someone else.  I have ver been in with the in crowd, and nor am I really bothered about being a yes person.  Yes and quote from my PM "I have only come back on due to C19, but i must admit I really do not like the forum as it is, it has changed beyond all belief " which it has, it used to be a supportive place where you could actually have a heated debate with out being called names or ganged up on.


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## Caol Ila (6 April 2020)

Yes, but if someone's mental health were to badly deteriorate, they could end up...needing an ambulance and hospitalisation. You cannae win.


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## Jill's Gym Karma (6 April 2020)

stormox said:



			I have a friend who lived in China for 30 years, only returned last year but obviously still has most friends living there.
He says most Chinese officials and ordinary people do not think British and other Western countries have the discipline and respect for orders as the Chinese and think more about ourselves than the State.  Therefore we will not be able to obey instructions to the letter and "lockdown"  in UK etc will fail....
Maybe he's right according to the differing interpretations on this and other forums...
		
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Yes, completely different social set-up between the state and the individual in China. Remember we don't have ID cards in the UK, we have policing by consent and our police are not armed. 

What we really need is some good old reliable rubbish British weather to keep the idiots indoors.


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## Tiddlypom (6 April 2020)

You’d also hope that lockdown also meant that folk wouldn’t take to the water in their pleasure boats, and that if they did, that they wouldn’t then get themselves in a pickle and need to call out the RNLI volunteers...

Coronavirus: Yacht crew calls for help during lockdown https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-52182041


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## Dave's Mam (6 April 2020)

Anyway......
On a lighter note, look who I saw today for the first time in 2 weeks.


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## ycbm (6 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			when you Pm'd me recently about posters having 2 ID's you described "pack mentality" and that now this is the worst you have ever known. That unless you were one of the in crowd you were basically hounded off. You also admitted you did not really like the forum. 

Is your above comment the sort of thing you were referring to?
		
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This isn't on,  Paddy. Private messages are supposed to stay private. It used to be in the forum rules, but it disappeared when the new software was installed. 

.


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## scats (6 April 2020)

I really feel for those who can't see their horses at the moment.  If you are anything like me, my horses are my sanity (when they aren't driving me mad!) and at the moment they feel like my only 'normal' in a strange world.
I went for feed today at a local feed store that has a large livery attached.  A fair few people were sat around chatting on the yard benches (I counted at least 5 people as I went past).  It must be virtually impossible to police that kind of thing though, as the yard is absolutely huge and all DIY.


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## Dave's Mam (6 April 2020)

I didn't see a soul.


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## ester (6 April 2020)

Flicker said:



			It’s not really about your mental health or Vitamin D levels at the moment, though, is it?  It is about doing what is best for society as a whole.  And that means reducing to an absolute minimum the time spent outdoors.  It is also about not doing things that could potentially put you at risk of needing the emergency services.  So, if it is safer to drive to work, and you have the means to do so, then you should choose this option.  I have a beautiful road bike that I am desperately looking forward to getting out on, but I also don’t want to fall off it and need an ambulance.  So my OH and I go for a run instead, while I await the delivery of my turbo trainer.

It is incumbent on us all to make the best, and safest, choices for the good of society.  Not what works best for us as individuals.

This is a short period of time in the grand scheme of things, and the sacrifices people are being asked to make are far from onerous.
		
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Hang on so you are going for a run but I'm not to go out on my bike (can't run) even though I am cycling completely on the flat, haven't fallen of a bicycle since I was a child and pass max 10 people - with plenty of room to give them space? I would be much more likely to injure myself running or walking due to physical issues and it would be foolish for me to spend the sort of money a TT costs right now.

I'd actually rather opt not to drive so I'm not using petrol pumps. I certainly wouldn't assess that it is safer to drive than cycle to work though there are other reasons for that too that I don't want to bring to this thread.

I believe I have the scientific know-how to be happy that I am making the best and safest choices and following government guidance. If in addition what I am doing limits my requirements to call on my GP or our 111 mental health option then I am reducing my use of services which is why it is important to include these things in any assessment of how to behave. Perhaps you don't realise how ill people can become/how risky their situation is currently.

I hope you are able to keep enjoying your running.


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## Gloi (6 April 2020)

I'm going to actually see mine tomorrow all being well. I had to put him on full livery as I'm isolating due to health issues but they have been put out in the fields this week and all my fly stuff etc is still at my house and I need to take it to the stables for him. So he'll get a quick hello and some carrots from me at last.


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## Leo Walker (6 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Hi Paddy when I pm'd you, it was to reply to your ask about 2 accounts. some of the others that post on here do,or those that get banned come back as someone else.  I have ver been in with the in crowd, and nor am I really bothered about being a yes person.  Yes and quote from my PM "I have only come back on due to C19, but i must admit I really do not like the forum as it is, it has changed beyond all belief " which it has, it used to be a supportive place where you could actually have a heated debate with out being called names or ganged up on.
		
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Oh the irony! You've attacked me twice on this post and will no doubt do so again when I post this. Maybe you are the problem 🤔 🤔


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## Gingerwitch (6 April 2020)

ycbm said:



			This isn't on,  Paddy. Private messages are supposed to stay private. It used to be in the forum rules, but it disappeared when the new software was installed.

Yes the forum has reached down to a whole new level, you would not mind if they did not edit the post to take it out of context, especaially when you were answering about two users, a question that they had asked
		
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Leo Walker said:



			Oh the irony! You've attacked me twice on this post and will no doubt do so again when I post this. Maybe you are the problem 🤔 🤔
		
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Oh yes the irony..... if i or anyone not in the Walker and Winters show had put up those videos of small children, and not from your house hold running a horse into a fence without a hard hat on, and if i had also said i had to be on lock down for 12 weeks, the letter is in the post, due to how poor my health and still went out and mixed with others, would have seen you badgering and  braying for my head and calling me selfish and not considering the impact on the NHS.  But I suppose that was necessary thing to do as as it was you doing it and only you can choose your own interpretation of the rules but ram your thoughts down others throats.

You attacked me first, so yes i retalliated, if you don't like it put me on UI and then get your friends to screen shot what I type so you can have another go. which is even more pathetic than announcing I wont read your posts and don't read mine.  That is why we have UI


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## Tiddlypom (6 April 2020)

Has a beautiful road bike but can’t ride one side of it, maybe, if running is perceived to be so much safer?

Commuting by bike = fresh air and exercise = fewer miles in the car so fewer stops for fuel, with all the potential for infection at the petrol station.


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## paddy555 (6 April 2020)

"Yes the forum has reached down to a whole new level, you would not mind if they did not edit the post to take it out of context, especaially when you were answering about two users, a question that they had asked"

you seemed to have edited this bit so I couldn't quote it but post 491  includes it. I have no idea what you are talking about. The only bit I edited was the GW came back due to C19 and I can't see the relevance of those words.


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## tristar (6 April 2020)

heard a tiger or two have tested positive for c 19 in an american zoo, caught it from the keeper


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## Velcrobum (6 April 2020)

While you are all bickering on here my OH came out of retirement today and returned to ITU to help out in this pandemic. ITU wise it is only just warming up in 2 weeks it is likely to be very very different. 

I also have a horse at a locked down yard he will receive excellent care and I have to just suck it up. 

If we all hunker down and stay in the smaller the likely hood of spreading C-19. When I last went food shopping I left it as late as I could working on the idea people would be eating their evening meal. It was quite but people were not social distancing. I wish the security people would stop families and couples coming in. The next time I see a car full of young men it will be photographed/videoed and passed to the police. The more times a pocket is hit the better the chances of riding out C-19.


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## honetpot (6 April 2020)

Velcrobum said:



			While you are all bickering on here my OH came out of retirement today and returned to ITU to help out in this pandemic. ITU wise it is only just warming up in 2 weeks it is likely to be very very different. 

I also have a horse at a locked down yard he will receive excellent care and I have to just suck it up. 

If we all hunker down and stay in the smaller the likely hood of spreading C-19. When I last went food shopping I left it as late as I could working on the idea people would be eating their evening meal. It was quite but people were not social distancing. I wish the security people would stop families and couples coming in. The next time I see a car full of young men it will be photographed/videoed and passed to the police. The more times a pocket is hit the better the chances of riding out C-19.
		
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 I have never understood why shopping, in a supermarket has become a family/social event. I left the kids with my husband at home, it does not take two to buy food, at the time it was my only break from the kids apart from work. I think the only time we shop for is a new house, shopping together is not a pleasure.
 Now I let him go on his own, he is feeling the lockdown more than me, I am the master of wasting time, so he gets to do the click and collect and somehow has managed to get us an order every week, by rotating supermarkets, he doesn't even go in the store. Sainsbury's gave us substitutes for free, which we didn't want, which we still not want so there will be some donations to the food bank.


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## thefarsideofthefield (6 April 2020)

tristar said:



			heard a tiger or two have tested positive for c 19 in an american zoo, caught it from the keeper
		
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Wouldn't want to be the person who had to do those throat swabs !


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## Pearlsasinger (6 April 2020)

Michen said:



			This paints a picture of it being rather more hectic than it is currently. Both brother and SIL have been redeployed to corona cases (doctors). They are not yet over worked or over whelmed and both are in central London.
		
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The paediatric oncologist does not live or work in London but her department obviously needs her to be present when she would, under normal circumstances be on holiday


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## Frumpoon (7 April 2020)

wren123 said:



			Let me explain, the social isolation is for the benefit of the whole of society to cut down the infection rates of society as a whole so the nhs can cope with covid 19 and also other sick people, not that hard to understand!
		
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I'm literally so bored I can't be arsed to repeat myself or argue the toss


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## Tiddlypom (7 April 2020)

Not sure what’s got into Frumpoon .


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## Dave's Mam (7 April 2020)

Tiddlypom said:



			Not sure what’s got into Frumpoon .
		
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Cabin fever.


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## Keith_Beef (8 April 2020)

I went for a walk around the block a couple of days ago, past the yard where I usually ride.

I could see only three horses there; I think the others have had their shoes taken off and have been turned away.


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## Gingerwitch (8 April 2020)

Keith_Beef said:



			I went for a walk around the block a couple of days ago, past the yard where I usually ride.

I could see only three horses there; I think the others have had their shoes taken off and have been turned away.
		
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Oh i hope so, but your in France...... I threaten mine in being sent to France when they are naughty !


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## hopscotch bandit (8 April 2020)

We are extending our time on the yard an extra half hour to 1.5 hours from tomz i think, we can ride if we want which will be great for my horses rehab controlled exercise plan but i will just go round the yard. Still only allowed to go up once a day. Asked if i could go up in the morning to try and reduce the time my horse goes out as she's so colicky (this would knock 3 hrs off) but not allowed if also want to go up in the afternoon as everyone would want to do the same.

So worried as normally i turn out late at night and go up early to get her in for 2 or 3 days.

Just so gratefuli can see her still although i havent a clue how I'm going to pay for her over the coming weeks.

Friend offered to turn her horse out in her field for an hour prior to her going out so i've bitten her hand off.

Hopefully rules will be relaxed by goverment on Monday. But realistically i can see the country going into full lockdown and everyone taken by suprise.


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## SO1 (8 April 2020)

There is no way the lockdown will be reduced on Monday,  I think we are in for another month of this at least. 

I have not seen my horse at all since the lockdown & miss him terribly. Just trying to do the right thing & reduce the risk of yard owner & staff getting infected or myself getting infected. So many people have died the best thing I can do for my horse is to try not to get infected.



hopscotch bandit said:



			We are extending our time on the yard an extra half hour to 1.5 hours from tomz i think, we can ride if we want which will be great for my horses rehab controlled exercise plan but i will just go round the yard. Still only allowed to go up once a day. Asked if i could go up in the morning to try and reduce the time my horse goes out as she's so colicky (this would knock 3 hrs off) but not allowed if also want to go up in the afternoon as everyone would want to do the same.

So worried as normally i turn out late at night and go up early to get her in for 2 or 3 days.

Just so gratefuli can see her still although i havent a clue how I'm going to pay for her over the coming weeks.

Friend offered to turn her horse out in her field for an hour prior to her going out so i've bitten her hand off.

Hopefully rules will be relaxed by goverment on Monday. But realistically i can see the country going into full lockdown and everyone taken by suprise.
		
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## sakura (9 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			There is no way the lockdown will be reduced on Monday,  I think we are in for another month of this at least.

I have not seen my horse at all since the lockdown & miss him terribly. Just trying to do the right thing & reduce the risk of yard owner & staff getting infected or myself getting infected. So many people have died the best thing I can do for my horse is to try not to get infected.
		
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absolutely the same here. it's hitting me hard, how long it's been without seeing my horse and how much longer this could potentially be for. but you only need to see the daily headlines to know it's the best thing to do. And that day I can see her again .... that's what's keeping me going!


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## ecb89 (9 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			There is no way the lockdown will be reduced on Monday,  I think we are in for another month of this at least .
		
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I agree, my work are planning for at least another 3 weeks


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## Chianti (9 April 2020)

Velcrobum said:



			While you are all bickering on here my OH came out of retirement today and returned to ITU to help out in this pandemic. ITU wise it is only just warming up in 2 weeks it is likely to be very very different.

I also have a horse at a locked down yard he will receive excellent care and I have to just suck it up.

If we all hunker down and stay in the smaller the likely hood of spreading C-19. When I last went food shopping I left it as late as I could working on the idea people would be eating their evening meal. It was quite but people were not social distancing. I wish the security people would stop families and couples coming in. The next time I see a car full of young men it will be photographed/videoed and passed to the police. The more times a pocket is hit the better the chances of riding out C-19.
		
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I went to Sainsburys this week and I think they were only letting one person in - no pairs or above. I can't understand people. I'm not allowed to see my pony and I really miss him but I know that's nothing to what key workers are going through. Best of luck to your OH. I'm furious about the PPE situation and have contributed to a crowdfunder of some young chap who is making visors using his 3D printer.


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## Chinchilla (9 April 2020)

thefarsideofthefield said:



			Wouldn't want to be the person who had to do those throat swabs !
		
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Be safer than posting on this thread 😂😂


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## Tiddlypom (11 April 2020)

Tiddlypom said:



			Going back to turbo trainers for bikes, if you can still get hold of one.

Son no 1 bought an interactive one about a month ago. It cost £180 and is ridiculously good quality for the money. He has his spare bike fitted to it. He is ‘racing’ against fellow users in real time, and the resistance automatically adjusts for hills etc, so it is remarkably realistic.







Click to expand...

Son no 1 is up bright and chirpy this morning, prepping for a 40 km virtual road race in Central London, starting at 9.05am. The roads should be nice and empty for it .


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## southerncomfort (11 April 2020)

Mitchelton Scott have been holding virtual races, letting every day riders race against  all their top riders.  Think Team Ineos have been doing something similar.

I love watching all the races on Eurosport but don't enjoy cycling myself.  I have however ordered myself a basic static bike trainer so I can continue the recovery from my torn calf muscles!


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## Daniel_Jack (11 April 2020)

I've not seen my horse for 3 weeks now. Thankfully I've got an amazing yard and know she's in the best hands. I'm full livery anyway so no additional costs. However from 1st May our horses go out 24/7 and we technically switch to DIY. I'm not sure yet if this means the yard will be accessible to liveries again. I'm hoping so as my horse stays in during the day too manage her weight and I can't afford to pay the yard owner to do her every day as I'm only receiving statutory pay at the moment so am slightly concerned about weight management this summer!


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## hopscotch bandit (11 April 2020)

southerncomfort said:



			Mitchelton Scott have been holding virtual races, letting every day riders race against  all their top riders.  Think Team Ineos have been doing something similar.

I love watching all the races on Eurosport but don't enjoy cycling myself.  I have however ordered myself a basic static bike trainer so I can continue the recovery from my torn calf muscles!
		
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I'd love to buy a pelethon bike kit. I love virtual spin at 'The Village Gym' by us, the Les Mill The Trip is amazing. Checkthis out, this is just one of about 15  'trips' that you can go on. Large cinema style screen, an audio visual treat and a lot of hardcwork but burns 650 cals a session. Miss it sooo much!


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## Pearlsasinger (11 April 2020)

ycbm said:



			This isn't on,  Paddy. Private messages are supposed to stay private. It used to be in the forum rules, but it disappeared when the new software was installed.

.
		
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Oh the irony!


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## ycbm (11 April 2020)

None whatsoever.

.


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## hopscotch bandit (11 April 2020)

Can't we just play nicely? Gosh if we can't all get on now in these troubled times when we should support our fellow citizens then when can we?

To put it simply why does this forum always have to descend into some frightful bitchfest bloodbath??


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## ester (11 April 2020)

Because it's like that time just before the end of winter when horsey people are going a bit dolally 
only worse.

Facebook is no better, the ice cream man being the current target.


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## thefarsideofthefield (11 April 2020)

hopscotch bandit said:



			Checkthis out, this is just one of about 15  'trips' that you can go on. Large cinema style screen, an audio visual treat and a lot of hardcwork but burns 650 cals a session. Miss it sooo much![/MEDIA]
		
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Well I just watched it all the way through . Twice . So that's my exercise done for the day . Off for a cream bun ….


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## ester (11 April 2020)

just one?


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## ycbm (11 April 2020)

Tiddlypom said:



			Son no 1 is up bright and chirpy this morning, prepping for a 40 km virtual road race in Central London, starting at 9.05am. The roads should be nice and empty for it .
		
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Did he win?


.


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## Tiddlypom (12 April 2020)

He finished about a quarter of the way down the field, apparently . The route took him alongside the Thames and through Trafalgar Square.

Cyclists of similar abilities are grouped together. After signing up to Zwift you do a 20 min flat out session to measure your power output in watts, and then divide it by your weight in kg to find your power-to-weight ratio. Your are then grouped with others of similar W/kg.

He is currently on a 100km club run. Apologies for the untidy store room, it is chokka with gubbins from our old garden shed which was demolished. Luckily the new one was finished before lockdown, so we need to move stuff over.


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## ester (12 April 2020)

fab. 
I did lol at being given the chance to ride with the teams, I wouldn't see them at all after the last bend


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## SO1 (12 April 2020)

So how are we feeling after yesterday's press conference & if this could go on for another 18 months. I am not sure if they could keep schools shut for so long....

Cost of furloughed employees for government would be extortionate but does gov debt really matter? 

I think most people can cope with short periods of not seeing their horses but 18 months is going to be difficult. 

I expect most people on full livery are on full livery due to work but if furloughed staff may want to move their horses off full or part livery yards if they have no access for months on end as they have more time to care for them but wouldn't be able to as it would be classed as non essential journey.


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## sarahann1 (12 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			So how are we feeling after yesterday's press conference & if this could go on for another 18 months. I am not sure if they could keep schools shut for so long....

Cost of furloughed employees for government would be extortionate but does gov debt really matter? 

I think most people can cope with short periods of not seeing their horses but 18 months is going to be difficult. 

I expect most people on full livery are on full livery due to work but if furloughed staff may want to move their horses off full or part livery yards if they have no access for months on end as they have more time to care for them but wouldn't be able to as it would be classed as non essential journey.
		
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18months, what, eh, I’d missed that??


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## stormox (12 April 2020)

Here in Ireland we are staying on total lockdown until May 5th....then a review.


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## SO1 (12 April 2020)

One of the press asked how the social distancing & restrictions could be lifted without a vaccine which could be 18 months. The science guy said it could be lifted if a treatment was found. He seemed to imply only way for this situation to change was vaccine or drug treatment.

It is very difficult to plan if have no idea how long restrictions are going on for. I think a lot of people if they thought they could not see their horses for 18 months due the yard restrictions might want to move their horses if they were able to. Certainly I am now thinking ahead about how to manage my pony needs if this goes on for 18 months. I am a part livery but my pony is native & needs regular exercise over the grass growing months to control his weight.The yard does provide exercise options but I normally exercise & grooming him myself. Long term I cannot afford to have him on full livery with exercise & grooming for 18 months. Short term it is manageable which is what is happening at the moment & I am complying with government advice on non essential journeys. I can see a lot of part livery people being in the same situation. If people can't move yards what happens if their finances change due to loosing their job or running out of savings to pay for extra services?



sarahann1 said:



			18months, what, eh, I’d missed that?? 

Click to expand...


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## Upthecreek (12 April 2020)

Unless I misunderstood I don’t think it was suggested that the situation as it is now will continue for 18 months. It would be impossible for the government to continue to pay furloughed workers and financially support businesses for that length of time. Other countries ahead of us (for example China where it started in December) are lifting restrictions. Progress needs to be made here on testing and research done on the likelihood of re-infection before they can come up with a long-term strategy. The first priority is of course to slow down the spread, which is why we are where we are, but once that has happened things will start to change for the better. Unfortunately it’s too early to get the answers we all crave about the timescale and what will happen next.

I don’t envy the decision makers at all. If they relax restrictions too soon the risk is the infection rates will blow up but if they stay in place too long the risk is killing the economy. It’s a difficult balancing act and I think they will get bashed whatever they do because they are unlikely to get it exactly right.

There is talk of schools opening at some point in May, even if it’s only for 6 weeks before the start of the summer holidays because of the detrimental effects on children’s education of being off school for a prolonged period and to enable parents to work.


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## stormox (12 April 2020)

How do the figures given accurately show the true picture of Covid though? Deaths - surely you need to know when they went into hospital. New cases - that must depend when they were tested and how long a wait they had? And how many of those tested showed symptoms or were they tested because they'd had contact with someone who tested positive?


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## Berpisc (12 April 2020)

I suspect that problems related to the economy and social unrest would start to overtake problems with the virus if any country was locked down for 18 months. Very very difficult times.


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## Duckanasteroidiscoming (12 April 2020)

Denmark is letting some kids back to school next week. Sweden never had lockdown but cases are falling. Spain is letting non essential workers back to work. In the UK the staff furlough scheme is not financially sustainable beyond the end of May so I expect lockdown to start to be relaxed in around 3 weeks time. That puts us in the same time frame as other countries. There is no chance of keeping the country in lockdown once other European countries start to return to normality. Its economic suicide. The country needs to start rebuilding the economy and we have to learn to live with coronavirus and being sensible with our social distancing and hand washing when lockdown is relaxed. There is zero chance of lockdown remaining as it is now until a vaccine is available. It would inflict irreparable harm to the economy and result in more deaths than from CV longterm


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## Upthecreek (12 April 2020)

stormox said:



			How do the figures given accurately show the true picture of Covid though? Deaths - surely you need to know when they went into hospital. New cases - that must depend when they were tested and how long a wait they had? And how many of those tested showed symptoms or were they tested because they'd had contact with someone who tested positive?
		
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I’ve given up trying to understand the figures. In the UK almost 85,000 people have been tested, but we don’t know who or why. 10,000 people have died in hospital, but how many have died at home or in care homes? People self isolating with symptoms have not been told to report it so unless they have needed medical intervention at any point there is currently no way of knowing how many people may have had it.

One positive is the NHS currently seems to have more capacity than people requiring treatment.


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## Abi90 (12 April 2020)

__ https://www.facebook.com/228735667216/posts/10157664110867217



More eye injuries in A&E due to an increase in DIY. Definitely not reporting more people falling of bikes or horses


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## criso (12 April 2020)

Well this weekend I've managed a hack complete with scary support the NHS sign (Tigger we support the NHS but not spooking!); schooled around some terrifying poles and did a little gridwork without injury. Also managed the usual catching, handling and mucking out duties without incident.

I did however go splat on an uneven bit of pavement walking out of a supermarket on the way home including a dramatic yoghurt casualty which required donation of a tissue (unused) from a passer by.  Luckily OK though a few bruises.


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## SO1 (18 April 2020)

How are we feeling about this now we have at least another 3 weeks of this?


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## Squeak (18 April 2020)

Duckanasteroidiscoming said:



			Denmark is letting some kids back to school next week. Sweden never had lockdown but cases are falling. Spain is letting non essential workers back to work. In the UK the staff furlough scheme is not financially sustainable beyond the end of May so I expect lockdown to start to be relaxed in around 3 weeks time. That puts us in the same time frame as other countries. There is no chance of keeping the country in lockdown once other European countries start to return to normality. Its economic suicide. The country needs to start rebuilding the economy and we have to learn to live with coronavirus and being sensible with our social distancing and hand washing when lockdown is relaxed. There is zero chance of lockdown remaining as it is now until a vaccine is available. It would inflict irreparable harm to the economy and result in more deaths than from CV longterm
		
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It will be really interesting to see how Spain & Italy etc. get on and I imagine it will probably give us an indication of what will happen here in 3 weeks time.


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## Bernster (18 April 2020)

I didn’t watch the press conference extending the lock down.  Furlough scheme has been extended to end of June.  Obv that makes me wonder if there’s a connection with how long lock down goes on for, although no one can be sure ofc.

I’m toying with the idea of checking in with you to see if we could do some form of rota, which is where they started but after 2 days went to total lock down. Weeks is bearable but even more weeks and possibly months just doesn’t seem sustainable.

My friend is saying if she’s furloughed she’ll move up to her boyfriends and take her horse with her, so yes I think some will try other arrangements rather than continue total lock down for months and months.


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## criso (18 April 2020)

I was always working on the basis that this was going to be for much longer than the first 3 weeks and made my decisions on how often to visit and what I needed to do as maintenance for the long term.  

I know of people who have already moved horses from yards on total lockdown and now it's been extended, can see more doing so.


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## Honey08 (18 April 2020)

I can’t imagine we’ll be on lockdown for 18 months.  I wouldn’t be surprised if it continued into June, perhaps even July, but will then relax down to social distancing again.  So people in some jobs will be able to go back to work etc, but pubs, restaurants and large gatherings/sports events will not be allowed.  By this point people would be allowed to shop/visit horses etc.

obviously only my opinion.


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## criso (18 April 2020)

Even into July is 4/5 months so in terms of horse care it's a long term approach not what is sustainable for 3 weeks.  Plus this is individual yards each having their own approach from open house to no liveries on site, even forcing diys onto full livery so they may all have different ideas on when to relax.


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## SO1 (18 April 2020)

My understanding is the yard restrictions are around social distancing/non essential journeys. If the social distancing/non essential journeys not related to work may continue to be part of guidance they may not open up to customers. Social distancing recommendations may well continue till until there is a vaccine.

I don't know how economically viable it would be for yards to restrict access for more than a few months as if customers thought this might go on for 18 months they might consider moving yards or turning horses away rather than paying expensive full livery with no access indefinately.



Honey08 said:



			I can’t imagine we’ll be on lockdown for 18 months.  I wouldn’t be surprised if it continued into June, perhaps even July, but will then relax down to social distancing again.  So people in some jobs will be able to go back to work etc, but pubs, restaurants and large gatherings/sports events will not be allowed.  By this point people would be allowed to shop/visit horses etc.

obviously only my opinion.
		
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## Bernster (18 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			My understanding is the yard restrictions are around social distancing/non essential journeys. If the social distancing/non essential journeys not related to work may continue to be part of guidance they may not open up to customers. Social distancing recommendations may well continue till until there is a vaccine.

I don't know how economically viable it would be for yards to restrict access for more than a few months as if customers thought this might go on for 18 months they might consider moving yards or turning horses away rather than paying expensive full livery with no access indefinately.
		
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I think that’s it - a lot of livery cost is about the care etc but to be paying out that much but with no access at all, and no use of facilities etc.  I can’t see people putting up with that longer term especially if other yards are allowing some element of access.  Let alone whether folks can even afford it given all this upheaval .


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## Caol Ila (18 April 2020)

That was my view when I started hearing about yards banning owners. What's the end game? According to my friend who's still at my old yard, my ex-yard owner has justified the ban, saying he doesn't want himself and his family at risk because if they get it, no one would be able to take care of the horses. That's a fair point, and owners will probably tolerate being separated from their horses for a few weeks, but the virus isn't going to go away in a few weeks. It will still be there, still a risk. If that's your justification for banning owners, then logically you will have to ban them until there's a vaccine. But I don't see anyone paying full livery prices for a horse they can't ride or even see for the next eighteen months, especially when many other yards are allowing access. That's insane.


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## Shilasdair (18 April 2020)

Personally, I think banning owners from seeing horses on full livery is not going to be viable for much longer.  I know people with horses on such yards who are looking to move to DIY as soon as they can find a place.  
I can see why full livery yards have jumped at the chance to lockdown - all the income, none of the hassle of liveries, nor the additional costs (electricity).  
But owners aren't going to keep paying for a service they can't gain the full benefits from, so if the yards don't open after the next three week period, I suspect many will be forced out of business as liveries remove their horses.


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## ecb89 (18 April 2020)

This is the problem. My yard is on lockdown but we are now allowed to walk through the fields to see the horses while they are out.
At first 3 weeks was ok, now it’s another 3 weeks, what about after that? Another 3, then another etc.
My ID is getting fatter by the day, he gains weight just looking at grass. I can’t afford for him to be exercised 5 times a week


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## Frumpoon (18 April 2020)

Caol Ila said:



			That was my view when I started hearing about yards banning owners. What's the end game? According to my friend who's still at my old yard, my ex-yard owner has justified the ban, saying he doesn't want himself and his family at risk because if they get it, no one would be able to take care of the horses. That's a fair point, and owners will probably tolerate being separated from their horses for a few weeks, but the virus isn't going to go away in a few weeks. It will still be there, still a risk. If that's your justification for banning owners, then logically you will have to ban them until there's a vaccine. But I don't see anyone paying full livery prices for a horse they can't ride or even see for the next eighteen months, especially when many other yards are allowing access. That's insane.
		
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This was exactly my point that got folks running round hysterically further up the thread 😂

A lot of yards banned owners without really thinking about why they were doing so, mine did and I moved my horses 3 days later no messing!

Lots of emotive words and phrases like 'covid hotbed' were used, you won't find these in a scientific journal because they have no real meaning.

Interestingly around here a lot of the yards that had fierce lockdown measures have now relaxed completely because a load of clients left - which sort of reinforces my point that none of the original lockdown measures in yards were for genuine reasons


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## criso (18 April 2020)

Not heard of relaxing round here yet.  In fact of heard of 2 more today that are having no visits, one that's put all their diys on 7 day livery and another that was already on 7 day but now charging liveries for exercise.


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## Gingerwitch (18 April 2020)

ecb89 said:



			This is the problem. My yard is on lockdown but we are now allowed to walk through the fields to see the horses while they are out.
At first 3 weeks was ok, now it’s another 3 weeks, what about after that? Another 3, then another etc.
My ID is getting fatter by the day, he gains weight just looking at grass. I can’t afford for him to be exercised 5 times a week
		
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Is that him in the photo? He looks stunning


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## ecb89 (18 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Is that him in the photo? He looks stunning 

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Yes that’s him, I’m biased but to me he is the most gorgeous horse in the world


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## Frumpoon (18 April 2020)

criso said:



			Not heard of relaxing round here yet.  In fact of heard of 2 more today that are having no visits, one that's put all their diys on 7 day livery and another that was already on 7 day but now charging liveries for exercise.
		
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I used to keep mine on the London/Herts border and I'm  not surprised


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## Caol Ila (18 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			This was exactly my point that got folks running round hysterically further up the thread 😂

A lot of yards banned owners without really thinking about why they were doing so, mine did and I moved my horses 3 days later no messing!

Lots of emotive words and phrases like 'covid hotbed' were used, you won't find these in a scientific journal because they have no real meaning.

Interestingly around here a lot of the yards that had fierce lockdown measures have now relaxed completely because a load of clients left - which sort of reinforces my point that none of the original lockdown measures in yards were for genuine reasons
		
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Arguably wanting to protect yourself and your family from getting COVID, especially if you live on the property, is a *genuine* reason to keep your herd of liveries away (some of whom are healthcare workers). But given the reality of the virus, it's not a *sustainable* reason because like I said, the virus ain't going anywhere and a vaccine is a long way off, so to eliminate all risk, you will need to ban your liveries for months. I imagine all but that one livery who never goes to the yard anyway will get the hell out of dodge, after a while. Eventually you will have to take the risk, if you want to keep your business, which makes it pointless to have banned owners in the first place. That's why it never made any sense to me (and you can imagine my relief when my yard didn't).


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## Frumpoon (18 April 2020)

You'd not only need to ban your liveries for months but you'd need to not take deliveries of food and supplies so as not to touch surfaces that had been potentially contaminated, you'd need to not go to the shops or GP or chemist...none of which is realistic


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## Gingerwitch (18 April 2020)

I do not want to start the bun fight again but I still cannot get over my original yard banning all the FL's but allowing all the DIY's to still ride and bath horses and sit round drinking coffee and going on multi rider hacks.  They have lost a couple of multi horse owners whom were all good payers, I am now struggling to get my deposit back off them as they have asked if i can wait as they cannot afford to refund this to me because they have liveries that are in arrears.

New but old yard has been very sensible, we are assigned a slot, we are allowed to ride in a maximum of 2, no jumping or use of x country fences currently but this may change depending on this next 3 week's lockdown.  No bathing unless its for a medical condition, the tack room has been closed along with the rest room.  You have to wash hands and put on disposable gloves as you arrive on the yard, cannot use any yard tools, we have automatic waters but have been asked to leave filling up of hay soaking bins to be filled by the yard.  We are allowed an hour and a half per horse, no lessons, no friends, allowed, no dogs but vets, farriers are still allowed on the yard. ~You are allowed to do your chores and ride, regardless of if you are on part or full livery, but are not allowed to stand around chatting and have to social distance.  If you break the rules then your slot is changed and you are then allowed up when you can be supervised by the staff or if you still ignore the rules then they have said quite clearly you will be asked to leave the yard.


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## SO1 (18 April 2020)

I suppose when this all started people didn't realise how long it might go for on. They thought maybe three weeks & everything would be ok. 

I cannot see how they could safely lift the lockdown without a vaccine unless we all wear PPE in public areas. This virus started with just one person being infected & has now spread around the world. It is easy to spread. I can understand people being worried about dying & limiting access to the yard thinking people won't move their horses. There is no guarantee there will be a vaccine. How long will the government financially support people on furlough & small business. Unless yards create cartels so all local yards close access to liveries people may move yards. Some people may have to choose between taking a risk that they may pick up the virus from liveries or loosing so many liveries their business is no longer sustainable. Selling property will be difficult in lockdown & state benefits may not cover mortgage or contractual rent. Very tricky situation long term for YO who want to protect themselves from the virus. 

Options may include rotas so that liveries can avoid contact with YO & staff. Perhaps ask people to come in the evenings when yard staff & YO have gone home. Maybe YO & staff could look at wearing some sort of PPE. 




Caol Ila said:



			Arguably wanting to protect yourself and your family from getting COVID, especially if you live on the property, is a *genuine* reason to keep your herd of liveries away (some of whom are healthcare workers). But given the reality of the virus, it's not a *sustainable* reason because like I said, the virus ain't going anywhere and a vaccine is a long way off, so to eliminate all risk, you will need to ban your liveries for months. I imagine all but that one livery who never goes to the yard anyway will get the hell out of dodge, after a while. Eventually you will have to take the risk, if you want to keep your business, which makes it pointless to have banned owners in the first place. That's why it never made any sense to me (and you can imagine my relief when my yard didn't).
		
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## criso (18 April 2020)

One of the farriers who comes to our yard said his business is down because of people taking shoes off and turning away. If people can't ride, they may decide they may as well do this.


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## Frumpoon (18 April 2020)

I can absolutely promise right now that we will have restrictions in place until at least July and very likely beyond

It was never going to be 3 weeks or even 6 weeks

Spanish flu of the 1920's killed 20 million people and there was no global travel or even local/regional travel back then

My personal view is that 2m distance or banning your liveries or any other similar measure is going to have zero effect on the speed of transmission of this particular virus


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## Gingerwitch (18 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			I can absolutely promise right now that we will have restrictions in place until at least July and very likely beyond

It was never going to be 3 weeks or even 6 weeks

Spanish flu of the 1920's killed 20 million people and there was no global travel or even local/regional travel back then

My personal view is that 2m distance or banning your liveries or any other similar measure is going to have zero effect on the speed of transmission of this particular virus
		
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A couple of yards around my old yard gave you 24 hours to get your horse off their premises if you did not like the lock down, add my old yard to this that is in excess of 100 horses that the owners have been banned from seeing.  My new (old) yard has been inundated with calls from owners wanting to move, they have all stated the same reasons, they are happy to have restrictions but are not happy they are not allowed to see their own animals. One yard has had the tack room bolted up, so all the tack has been locked away.

Whilst the yards may survive C19, the fall out from a exit of clients after this may be another matter.


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## Caol Ila (18 April 2020)

Yes -- the yard in question had a rota and rules for disinfecting stuff you touched. My friend, who's an anesthetist, was very happy that the measures put in place were safe and reasonable. Then the YO changed his mind and banned everyone. 

My yard has limited the amount of liveries who can be there at any one time. If there are six cars in the parking lot, you sit in your car until someone leaves. I've worked out what time virtually no one is there, and that's when I go, so I'm never waiting and never in a stressy rush to leave because there are other owners waiting.


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## magicmoments (18 April 2020)

Frankly I think it's terrible that YO's can ban liveries and then have the audacity to charge for full livery.  If they want to minimise their risk, and inconvenience the liveries in the process, then the YO should take the hit.  No problem with then putting in place time slots, or other conditions up to a point, although I would take exception to tack being locked away.  They deserve to lose liveries in my opinion.


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## shortstuff99 (18 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			I can absolutely promise right now that we will have restrictions in place until at least July and very likely beyond

It was never going to be 3 weeks or even 6 weeks

Spanish flu of the 1920's killed 20 million people and there was no global travel or even local/regional travel back then

My personal view is that 2m distance or banning your liveries or any other similar measure is going to have zero effect on the speed of transmission of this particular virus
		
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Just to say the Spanish Flu and Covid-19 are very different diseases and aren't that easy to compare for this outbreak. The flu killed around 50 million as it mainly killed young 20-40 year olds and the transmission was so widespread due to the movement of troops during WW1 (it is believed it originated at a US fort). There was also a lack of understanding about virus transmissions and no treatments. 

Covid-19 is less infectious then Spanish flu and we know how to treat pandemics differently now.

I think we will see longer measures but I can't see how it can be too much longer as you will end up with more deaths due to a tanked economy then you will see from the disease!


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## Frumpoon (18 April 2020)

shortstuff99 said:



			Just to say the Spanish Flu and Covid-19 are very different diseases and aren't that easy to compare for this outbreak. The flu killed around 50 million as it mainly killed young 20-40 year olds and the transmission was so widespread due to the movement of troops during WW1 (it is believed it originated at a US fort). There was also a lack of understanding about virus transmissions and no treatments.

Covid-19 is less infectious then Spanish flu and we know how to treat pandemics differently now.

I think we will see longer measures but I can't see how it can be too much longer as you will end up with more deaths due to a tanked economy then you will see from the disease!
		
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They are both respiratory viruses and epidemiologists have known we are well overdue for a pandemic for several years

The Spanish flu killed mostly younger people because they were mostly the ones moving about working etc

It had nothing to do with WW1

Anyone can access Wikipedia


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## Amymay (18 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			It had nothing to do with WW1
		
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Apart from the fact that troop movement helped spread it....


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## criso (18 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			They are both respiratory viruses and epidemiologists have known we are well overdue for a pandemic for several years

The Spanish flu killed mostly younger people because they were mostly the ones moving about working etc

It had nothing to do with WW1

Anyone can access Wikipedia
		
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I thought Spanish flu killed younger people because older people had been exposed to a similar strain and had some immunity but those born after a certain date hadn't so had no resistance to it.


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## shortstuff99 (18 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			They are both respiratory viruses and epidemiologists have known we are well overdue for a pandemic for several years

The Spanish flu killed mostly younger people because they were mostly the ones moving about working etc

It had nothing to do with WW1

Anyone can access Wikipedia
		
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Yes they are both respiratory illnesses but they still work in different ways, many things cause respiratory illnesses but not all need the same treatment.

WW1 was pivotal in spread of the virus! Here is a reasonable article explaining why it appears it was so deadly https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...any-otherwise-healthy-young-adults-180967178/


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## shortstuff99 (18 April 2020)

criso said:



			I thought Spanish flu killed younger people because older people had been exposed to a similar strain and had some immunity but those born after a certain date hadn't so had no resistance to it.
		
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Yes that is correct 😊.


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## Frumpoon (19 April 2020)

Amymay said:



			Apart from the fact that troop movement helped spread it....
		
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It is one hypothesis but the flu reached much further afield than the nations that contributed troops


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## Frumpoon (19 April 2020)

shortstuff99 said:



			Yes that is correct 😊.
		
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It is not necessarily correct, it is one hypothesis


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## southerncomfort (19 April 2020)

I think the Chief Scientific Officer has said from the start that it would likely be a case of easing and tightening restrictions several times over a long period.

Not sure how that would work but I suspect we'll be watching China, Italy and Spain very closely to see what happens.

In China their are small pockets of infections appearing but so far they seem small and under control.


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## Gingerwitch (19 April 2020)

Sad to say but i do not believe a single word from China and I am trying to avoid buying anything made in china again.  I just hope out government will adopt the same. I am pretty sure France will hike import duties to the hilt as they do still have some balls.


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## Frumpoon (19 April 2020)

southerncomfort said:



			I think the Chief Scientific Officer has said from the start that it would likely be a case of easing and tightening restrictions several times over a long period.

Not sure how that would work but I suspect we'll be watching China, Italy and Spain very closely to see what happens.

In China their are small pockets of infections appearing but so far they seem small and under control.
		
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Going back to the original point about yards and access to ones horses, probably makes the hysterical over reaction of some yard owners unsustainable and they will either have to close their doors or ease their  stance


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## NinjaPony (19 April 2020)

I think yards will have to ease up a bit over the next few months. My yard is now arranging slots for owners to come and ride in the 2 schools between certain hours, following social distancing protocol.


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## tristar (19 April 2020)

i think any easing of restrictions will involve a lot of masks, everyone wearing masks


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## stormox (19 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Sad to say but i do not believe a single word from China and I am trying to avoid buying anything made in china again.  I just hope out government will adopt the same. I am pretty sure France will hike import duties to the hilt as they do still have some balls.
		
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I believe a lot of PPE is made in China....


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## Gingerwitch (19 April 2020)

stormox said:



			I believe a lot of PPE is made in China....
		
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I know, but if you think about it overall, the cheapness of the item combined with the cost to the economy = we would have been better off with local supply.

From what I am understanding they have also sold an awful lot of inferior equipment and also gazzumpted a few countries to go with the highest bidder.


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## southerncomfort (19 April 2020)

Just reading the paper and the government are talking about beginning to ease the restrictions from 11th May.

That seems to soon to me. As a comparison France are also going to start lifting their lock down from 11th May, but their lock down began earlier than ours and the conditions were more stringent than hours has been.

A large number of cabinet members here are arguing that it is better to lift lock down sooner and save the economy even if it leads to a much higher death toll. Sounds like Matt Hancock is becoming a lone voice in arguing that we should wait until infection rates, hospital admissions and the death toll come down and stay down for a period of time first.

Of course we don't know what Boris thinks yet and ultimately he has to make that decision.


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## Chianti (19 April 2020)

tristar said:



			i think any easing of restrictions will involve a lot of masks, everyone wearing masks
		
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But where will we get them from? Health and care staff can't get PPE- where will we get another 60 odd milion masks from?


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## Chianti (19 April 2020)

southerncomfort said:



			Just reading the paper and the government are talking about beginning to ease the restrictions from 11th May.

That seems to soon to me. As a comparison France are also going to start lifting their lock down from 11th May, but their lock down began earlier than ours and the conditions were more stringent than hours has been.

A large number of cabinet members here are arguing that it is better to lift lock down sooner and save the economy even if it leads to a much higher death toll. Sounds like Matt Hancock is becoming a lone voice in arguing that we should wait until infection rates, hospital admissions and the death toll come down and stay down for a period of time first.

Of course we don't know what Boris thinks yet and ultimately he has to make that decision.
		
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Reading the press today I wonder how long Johnson will be PM!


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## SO1 (19 April 2020)

I think easing the restrictions is very different from lifting the lockdown. 

Social distancing will continue but perhaps some more shops will be allowed to open to enable a few more people in retail to return to work. Maybe people will be allowed to travel to 2nd homes. 

Economy, the problem will be people who work in leisure industries such as bars, restaurants, cinemas, gyms, holiday business, concerts venues, football stadiums, wedding venues probably won't be back in work for a long time. 

Until they lift the restrictions on social distancing so bigger gatherings can take place it will be hard for people working in these industries.



southerncomfort said:



			Just reading the paper and the government are talking about beginning to ease the restrictions from 11th May.

That seems to soon to me. As a comparison France are also going to start lifting their lock down from 11th May, but their lock down began earlier than ours and the conditions were more stringent than hours has been.

A large number of cabinet members here are arguing that it is better to lift lock down sooner and save the economy even if it leads to a much higher death toll. Sounds like Matt Hancock is becoming a lone voice in arguing that we should wait until infection rates, hospital admissions and the death toll come down and stay down for a period of time first.

Of course we don't know what Boris thinks yet and ultimately he has to make that decision.
		
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## TPO (19 April 2020)

Based on what I've read (& I'm just a pleb, I just read it and didnt check sources etc) media is reporting easing restrictions from 11 May and allowing businesses like hairdressers (?) to open.

End of may allowing restaurants to open as long as they space out seating.

Mid june open cinemas and gyms 

There were many more places and businesses listed but those are the ones that stuck out to me as they all seemed to involve being very close to other people and high risk of cross contamination with people all having to touch/use items within those types of businesses.

I can appreciate from a business and earning POV why you would want those businesses opened asap but I cant see how they are essential/needed from a society POV.


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## fiwen30 (19 April 2020)

An unofficial (I think) Facebook page for the shops of my town posted today, announcing that shops would begin to open ‘one by one’. Not the foggiest where they got that memo, but one of the local hardware/garden shops has reopened today. Goodness knows why, since they don’t sell either food or medical supplies - seems like a recipe for encouraging non-essential journeys & mingling imo.

I know that no one is enthused about another 3 weeks of lockdown, but for some of us we still have 9 weeks, minimum, to go. We’re relying on other people to make the world safe enough for us to come back out again, and it’s scary as ****.


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## ester (19 April 2020)

hardware shops have always been exempt from having to close.

I think we should prioritise gyms over restaurants (last think I need is more bad food!) though I would undersand the basis of it being the other way round.


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## Muddywellies (19 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			I think easing the restrictions is very different from lifting the lockdown.

Social distancing will continue but perhaps some more shops will be allowed to open to enable a few more people in retail to return to work. Maybe people will be allowed to travel to 2nd homes.

Economy, the problem will be people who work in leisure industries such as bars, restaurants, cinemas, gyms, holiday business, concerts venues, football stadiums, wedding venues probably won't be back in work for a long time.

Until they lift the restrictions on social distancing so bigger gatherings can take place it will be hard for people working in these industries.
		
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A friend of mine owns a pub and they are hoping to reopen in July


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## Pointless1 (19 April 2020)

Michel Gove just said on news that schools will absolutely not reopen on the 11th May.


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## Michen (19 April 2020)

fiwen30 said:



			An unofficial (I think) Facebook page for the shops of my town posted today, announcing that shops would begin to open ‘one by one’. Not the foggiest where they got that memo, but one of the local hardware/garden shops has reopened today. Goodness knows why, since they don’t sell either food or medical supplies - seems like a recipe for encouraging non-essential journeys & mingling imo.

I know that no one is enthused about another 3 weeks of lockdown, but for some of us we still have 9 weeks, minimum, to go. We’re relying on other people to make the world safe enough for us to come back out again, and it’s scary as ****.
		
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but it’s not going to be any safer, I’m sorry. The virus will still be around.


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## Muddywellies (19 April 2020)

Michen said:



			but it’s not going to be any safer, I’m sorry. The virus will still be around.
		
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It will be around for years.  Reason for the lockdown isn't to get rid of the virus but slow the spread to give the NHS half a chance of dealing with it.


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## SO1 (19 April 2020)

It has given the gov time to build the nightingale hospitals, morgues & to try & source more PPE. 

I hope the lockdown is not lifted until NHS staff & social care workers can feel confident they have the PPE needed to protect them & help prevent the spread of the virus to those they care for.




Muddywellies said:



			It will be around for years.  Reason for the lockdown isn't to get rid of the virus but slow the spread to give the NHS half a chance of dealing with it.
		
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## SO1 (19 April 2020)

Doubt pubs will open again this year, unless it is for a few months over the summer, in the hope that the warmer weather subdues the virus.

I would not be surprised if we end up in lockdown again in the winter when the flu season starts as NHS won't be able to cope with flu & coronavirus circulating at the same time. A lot of people travelling & socialising over Xmas could also cause more cases.



Muddywellies said:



			A friend of mine owns a pub and they are hoping to reopen in July
		
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## southerncomfort (19 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			Doubt pubs will open again this year, unless it is for a few months over the summer, in the hope that the warmer weather subdues the virus.

I would not be surprised if we end up in lockdown again in the winter when the flu season starts as NHS won't be able to cope with flu & coronavirus circulating at the same time. A lot of people travelling & socialising over Xmas could also cause more cases.
		
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I wonder if everyone will be offered a free flu vaccine this year?


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## mavandkaz (19 April 2020)

Pointless1 said:



			Michel Gove just said on news that schools will absolutely not reopen on the 11th May.
		
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Parents need to be prepared for schools to not go back until September


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## southerncomfort (19 April 2020)

Can't decide if journos are getting things wrong or if cabinet members keep changing their mind.

Paper said today that Gove originally supported Matt Hancock in keeping the restrictions in place, but that he'd now changed his mind and was willing to go with the 'hot' option of easing restrictions to save the economy and accepting a much higher rate of deaths.


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## ycbm (19 April 2020)

And in all of this mess we also need to  understand that failing to release the economy and creating mass poverty will in itself create early deaths. 

.


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## southerncomfort (19 April 2020)

Yes, glad I'm not the one making the decision!


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## maya2008 (19 April 2020)

I have no idea what people at yards where the YO lives on site with highly vulnerable family members will do. Ban all liveries for 18 months plus until a vaccine? That makes sense medically, but not at all for the owners of the horses.


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## Muddywellies (19 April 2020)

It's just not possible if yard owners want to keep their business.   People who aren't allowed to see their horses long term will just move.  Who's going to pay the amount that I pay on my mortgage, on livery, to not be able to see their horse?


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## Frumpoon (19 April 2020)

Muddywellies said:



			It's just not possible if yard owners want to keep their business.   People who aren't allowed to see their horses long term will just move.  Who's going to pay the amount that I pay on my mortgage, on livery, to not be able to see their horse?
		
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Exactly

It is not, and has never been, ok to just pull up the drawbridge and  say to your customers "yes we will take your money but you can't have the service we originally agreed because we have decided to cherry pick bits and bobs of government and industry guidelines to suit ourselves"


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## Frumpoon (19 April 2020)

Muddywellies said:



			It's just not possible if yard owners want to keep their business.   People who aren't allowed to see their horses long term will just move.  Who's going to pay the amount that I pay on my mortgage, on livery, to not be able to see their horse?
		
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Exactly

It is not, and has never been, ok to just pull up the drawbridge and  say to your customers "yes we will take your money but you can't have the service we originally agreed because we have decided to cherry pick bits and bobs of government and industry guidelines to suit ourselves"


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## Chianti (19 April 2020)

maya2008 said:



			I have no idea what people at yards where the YO lives on site with highly vulnerable family members will do. Ban all liveries for 18 months plus until a vaccine? That makes sense medically, but not at all for the owners of the horses.
		
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That's the situation I'm in. We were allowed to visit today for the first time.


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## Gingerwitch (19 April 2020)

Chianti said:



			That's the situation I'm in. We were allowed to visit today for the first time.
		
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Sorry you are in this situation, have they said how often you can go or is this a one off visit for now ?


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## paddy555 (19 April 2020)

TPO said:



			allowing businesses like hairdressers (?) to open.
		
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don't you have to get quite close to someone to cut their hair? A little closer than 2 metres?


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## Gingerwitch (19 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			don't you have to get quite close to someone to cut their hair? A little closer than 2 metres?
		
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The government must think that hairdressers are like Edward Scissor Hands lol !


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## J&S (19 April 2020)

It's so that the news readers can look glamorous again!


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## ecb89 (19 April 2020)

My yard are starting to lift restrictions. We are able to go for 1.5 hours. One person on the yard at a time. I have been told I can go this Tuesday. I can’t wait!


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## tristar (19 April 2020)

Chianti said:



			But where will we get them from? Health and care staff can't get PPE- where will we get another 60 odd milion masks from?
		
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get sewing , and use your brains


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## southerncomfort (19 April 2020)

J&S said:



			It's so that the news readers can look glamorous again!
		
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Ha ha!

It has been quite amusing watching everyone's hair become unruly.

Luckily I've been cutting my own hair for years with varying degrees of success. ☺


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## Tiddlypom (19 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			don't you have to get quite close to someone to cut their hair? A little closer than 2 metres?
		
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Where there’s a will... Though to be picky, the distancing is still maybe less than 2m?


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## ester (19 April 2020)

iirc hairdressers are still counted as 'essential' in Aus so have never shutdown.


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## criso (19 April 2020)

They were an exception in Spain at first but I think then closed.  

My hair was due to be cut this week, give it a month to get really bad and I'd risk it.


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## Michen (19 April 2020)

ester said:



			iirc hairdressers are still counted as 'essential' in Aus so have never shutdown.
		
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Totally agree with this.

I’m going to be brunette soon and that will make me very unhappy.


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## AlDestoor (20 April 2020)

I get that alot of YO are doing what is necessary but I personally feel that alot of YO are seeing this as an excuse to take charge of others horses and their welfare. 

Having just left a yard where a cow farmer thought that they knew my horse better than I did- I don't agree with some of the restrictions in place and feel, like Italy and France, there should be more guidelines and not leaving it up to a YO discretion.


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## paddy555 (20 April 2020)

Lucy-Jay said:



			I get that alot of YO are doing what is necessary but I personally feel that alot of YO are seeing this as an excuse to take charge of others horses and their welfare.
		
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or it could be the case that YO's are trying to comply with the govt's lockdown in the case of full livery and are also being extremely selfish. ie trying to keep the virus away from their property and family and to save their own  lives and those of their family. Just a different perspective. 

I appreciate YO's are running a business however I wonder how many people would like a dozen or more people tramping through their property on a daily basis when they have no idea how strict they are on hygiene, where they have come from (virus wise) and, dare I say it, if some should in fact be in isolation either due to having symptoms or contacts with symptoms. 

 It is easy to criticise YO's but you have no idea what underlying health problems either they or their families have and how vulnerable they would be to the virus. 


I doubt any YO wants to take on additional responsibility and additional work.


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## AlDestoor (20 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			or it could be the case that YO's are trying to comply with the govt's lockdown in the case of full livery and are also being extremely selfish. ie trying to keep the virus away from their property and family and to save their own  lives and those of their family. Just a different perspective.

I appreciate YO's are running a business however I wonder how many people would like a dozen or more people tramping through their property on a daily basis when they have no idea how strict they are on hygiene, where they have come from (virus wise) and, dare I say it, if some should in fact be in isolation either due to having symptoms or contacts with symptoms.

It is easy to criticise YO's but you have no idea what underlying health problems either they or their families have and how vulnerable they would be to the virus.


I doubt any YO wants to take on additional responsibility and additional work.
		
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I do get this, which is why I'm saying some yards. One in my mind is still letting people gather for G&T's in barns.... but then claiming they are sticking with social distancing. It's all just what suits. Don't get me wrong, most yards are being proactive and I salute them for it.


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## Frumpoon (20 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			or it could be the case that YO's are trying to comply with the govt's lockdown in the case of full livery and are also being extremely selfish. ie trying to keep the virus away from their property and family and to save their own  lives and those of their family. Just a different perspective.

I appreciate YO's are running a business however I wonder how many people would like a dozen or more people tramping through their property on a daily basis when they have no idea how strict they are on hygiene, where they have come from (virus wise) and, dare I say it, if some should in fact be in isolation either due to having symptoms or contacts with symptoms.

It is easy to criticise YO's but you have no idea what underlying health problems either they or their families have and how vulnerable they would be to the virus.


I doubt any YO wants to take on additional responsibility and additional work.
		
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My personal view is that if you aren't comfortable with a dozen or so people tramping through your property then don't run a business from home, go and get a normal full time job! 

It is not the responsibility of your liveries to subsidise your country lifestyle whilst you interpret the government guidelines to suit yourself.


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## AlDestoor (20 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			My personal view is that if you aren't comfortable with a dozen or so people tramping through your property then don't run a business from home, go and get a normal full time job!

It is not the responsibility of your liveries to subsidise your country lifestyle whilst you interpret the government guidelines to suit yourself.
		
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@Frumpoon I'm so glad someone else said it. Whilst I agree that these are peoples homes etc, but why should a normal healthy person who isn't a risk be stopped from doing what they enjoy and often, deem as a mental health support. If you are at risk, then following government guidelines you should be self isolating anyway. This is what annoyed me most.


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## Muddywellies (20 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			My personal view is that if you aren't comfortable with a dozen or so people tramping through your property then don't run a business from home, go and get a normal full time job!

It is not the responsibility of your liveries to subsidise your country lifestyle whilst you interpret the government guidelines to suit yourself.
		
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Hear hear!


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## be positive (20 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			My personal view is that if you aren't comfortable with a dozen or so people tramping through your property then don't run a business from home, go and get a normal full time job!

It is not the responsibility of your liveries to subsidise your country lifestyle whilst you interpret the government guidelines to suit yourself.
		
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In normal circumstances I am more than happy for my liveries to come and go whenever they want but this situation is exceptional and as a high risk person I have restricted access, I allow the liveries to come to ride, do extra care and they are expected to abide by the guidelines set, my concern is that I do not know who they are in contact with when they are not here and whether they would know they had it if asymptomatic, for now as we live in an area so far fairly low in cases I will continue to allow access and they are well aware I am considered high risk, if I totally self isolated they would not be able to come at all as most of the horses on the property are mine. 

As for them subsidising my lifestyle I will treat that comment with the contempt it deserves.


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## AlDestoor (20 April 2020)

I quite like the idea of a timetable that has been utilised on yards, and in your case @be positive, you're taking the sane approach. 

I've known yards around here stop riding completely, even ground work (which is baffling considering not even Italy/ France have done this), some have stopped hacking but allowing riding in groups in arena (again baffling), some giving timetables (which I completely agree with) and some providing hand sanitiser at different points on the yards (again I agree with!) and some who, at the end of the day, disinfect everything that is communal (I was doing this on my last place as I was often the last person on the yard). 

I think it's more about taking a realistic and sane approach.


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## magicmoments (20 April 2020)

I would have thought the majority of yards had a separate house and garden that would not be accessed by liveries normally anyway so should be fine.  I personally would not want people on my business property that I felt I could not trust to take sensible precautions on an occasion such as we are now in.  I can see a reason for restricting full liveries, but think it is totally unacceptable to stop diy coming up to take care of their horses.  Feel very sorry for any livery that doesn't trust their YO to care for their horse.  I have to say that the time I have spent caring for my share horse has been a godsend in the current situation, which I am finding quite depressing, despite knowing that is for good reason.


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## Tiddlypom (20 April 2020)

Anyone thinking of opening a livery yard would be wise to read Frumpoon’s posts beforehand. Eye opening.


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## Frumpoon (20 April 2020)

Tiddlypom said:



			Anyone thinking of opening a livery yard would be wise to read Frumpoon’s posts beforehand. Eye opening.
		
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Of course

Please do


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## Sussexbythesea (20 April 2020)

I think some yard owners have gone too far however I think this is unprecedented and I think a lot of people didn’t know what to do and interpreted the guidance narrowly. I don’t think the BHS did anyone any favours. In most places there will be a way to manage the risks well without resorting to putting everyone on full livery or banning owners from yards. It just takes a bit of organisation. Going into the next three weeks I think YO’s really need to make the effort to sort something more sustainable out.


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## paddy555 (20 April 2020)

Tiddlypom said:



			Anyone thinking of opening a livery yard would be wise to read Frumpoon’s posts beforehand. Eye opening.
		
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totally agree. 

It is the yard owner's yard and their rules. If people don't like them, then as you would with any other service, go elsewhere. 

As for liveries subsidising a YO's country lifestyle word's fail me. If the YO had a normal full time job there wouldn't be a livery yard in the countryside to keep your horses on. 
I find the selfish attitude of some liveries at the current exceptional time amazing. I am surprised if YO's have to put up with this they  don't  just serve notice.


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## Frumpoon (20 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			totally agree.

It is the yard owner's yard and their rules. If people don't like them, then as you would with any other service, go elsewhere.

As for liveries subsidising a YO's country lifestyle word's fail me. If the YO had a normal full time job there wouldn't be a livery yard in the countryside to keep your horses on. 
I find the selfish attitude of some liveries at the current exceptional time amazing. I am surprised if YO's have to put up with this they  don't  just serve notice.
		
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It may surprise you to know that I do agree

What's I am saying isn't that a large number of horses have been removed from yards with punitive lockdown rules and as a result those lockdown rules have been relaxed

Which sort of points towards the original reason not being the carefully thought through decision making process informed by a good and thorough understanding of science and human biology

If people do remove their horses and go elsewhere for the services they require then those yard owners will have to go and get a normal job anyway and all will be resolved


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## paddy555 (20 April 2020)

Lucy-Jay said:



			I get that alot of YO are doing what is necessary but I personally feel that alot of YO are seeing this as an excuse to take charge of others horses and their welfare.

Having just left a yard where a cow farmer thought that they knew my horse better than I did- I don't agree with some of the restrictions in place and feel, like Italy and France, there should be more guidelines and not leaving it up to a YO discretion.
		
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I have just read your other thread about having to move your horse. If you read your final sentence above possibly it may point towards the mystery as to why your YO gave you notice. They may think that they have discretion as to how they run their yard.


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## Frumpoon (20 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			I have just read your other thread about having to move your horse. If you read your final sentence above possibly it may point towards the mystery as to why your YO gave you notice. They may think that they have discretion as to how they run their yard.
		
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Paddy are you worried that your liveries are going to leave and you'll have to go and work at Asda or similar?


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## Chianti (20 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Sorry you are in this situation, have they said how often you can go or is this a one off visit for now ?
		
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Thanks. We haven't been told yet if we can go again. It's very hard but others are going through worse.


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## Winters100 (20 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			totally agree.

It is the yard owner's yard and their rules. If people don't like them, then as you would with any other service, go elsewhere.

As for liveries subsidising a YO's country lifestyle word's fail me. If the YO had a normal full time job there wouldn't be a livery yard in the countryside to keep your horses on. 
I find the selfish attitude of some liveries at the current exceptional time amazing. I am surprised if YO's have to put up with this they  don't  just serve notice.
		
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Totally agree.  Hundreds of people are dying every day and everyone is being asked to stay home as much as possible. Of course DIYs need to do their horses, and of course there are exceptions, horses with welfare issues etc, but to me just wanting to see your horses is not a good reason to visit a yard.   We all miss our horses, but I am pretty sure that my friend who is working on the frontline and living in a bedsit so as not to take it home to her family also misses them.  There are bigger things in life than not seeing our horses, and many other groups of society are also making sacrifices, the horse owning world is not an exception.

Regarding liveries subsidising YOs lives I would say that livery in the UK costs about the same as where I live in Poland, despite the fact that real estate prices and staff costs are a fraction of that in the UK.  The least that YOs deserve is some respect and some compliance with their rules at such a difficult time.


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## paddy555 (20 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Paddy are you worried that your liveries are going to leave and you'll have to go and work at Asda or similar?
		
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not in the slightest worried Frumpoon. I don't have liveries, my yard is my own private yard with only my own horses and I refuse to take liveries. If I ever have any doubts on that score I only have to read stories on this forum. And no, I am not planning on Asda or anywhere else for that matter. Hope that sets your mind at rest.


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## Frumpoon (20 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			not in the slightest worried Frumpoon. I don't have liveries, my yard is my own private yard with only my own horses and I refuse to take liveries. If I ever have any doubts on that score I only have to read stories on this forum. And no, I am not planning on Asda or anywhere else for that matter. Hope that sets your mind at rest. 

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Phew! I do worry about you so you have reassured me


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## Gingerwitch (20 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			It may surprise you to know that I do agree

What's I am saying isn't that a large number of horses have been removed from yards with punitive lockdown rules and as a result those lockdown rules have been relaxed

Which sort of points towards the original reason not being the carefully thought through decision making process informed by a good and thorough understanding of science and human biology

If people do remove their horses and go elsewhere for the services they require then those yard owners will have to go and get a normal job anyway and all will be resolved
		
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I have said this once before, yards may survive C19, but the way they have reacted and treated liveries may be a totally different issue.  I get that yard owners want to protect themselves and their families but people paying £500 a month plus are not going to happily pay this when other yard sections of the yard are being given free access.

Why does everyone think that if you are Full Livery you can be treated like a second class citizen in regards to your horses welfare.  Whilst I am sure that there are some very good yards, but their is equally the ones that will take advantage of the banning of owners to enable them to take short cuts.


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## paddy555 (20 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I have said this once before, yards may survive C19, but the way they have reacted and treated liveries may be a totally different issue.  I get that yard owners want to protect themselves and their families but people paying £500 a month plus are not going to happily pay this when other yard sections of the yard are being given free access.

Why does everyone think that if you are Full Livery you can be treated like a second class citizen in regards to your horses welfare.  Whilst I am sure that there are some very good yards, but their is equally the ones that will take advantage of the banning of owners to enable them to take short cuts.
		
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that could well be true however I doubt well run yards will have any problems in taking on new liveries.


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## Frumpoon (20 April 2020)

Not delivering the service you are paid to by banning customers can't really be classed as well run


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## Gingerwitch (20 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			that could well be true however I doubt well run yards will have any problems in taking on new liveries.
		
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I doubt well run yards would be in this situation because well run yards behave like a business and have business sense.


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## paddy555 (20 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I doubt well run yards would be in this situation because well run yards behave like a business and have business sense.
		
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if I was looking at a yard ATM I would be looking at one with Corona virus sense. That would tell me a lot about the YO's attitude and attention to detail.


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## Sussexbythesea (20 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			if I was looking at a yard ATM I would be looking at one with Corona virus sense. That would tell me a lot about the YO's attitude and attention to detail.
		
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You say that because you don’t have to. Would you really move to a yard that banned you from seeing your horses and charged you extra for the privilege? I know I wouldn’t. 

Our yard of all DIY hasn’t had any rules applied by the YO but we’re all sensible. I keep myself safe by keeping a safe distance away from others and disinfecting everything I touch that could be contaminated and washing hands regularly.


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## Frumpoon (20 April 2020)

Sussexbythesea said:



			You say that because you don’t have to. Would you really move to a yard that banned you from seeing your horses and charged you extra for the privilege? I know I wouldn’t.

Our yard of all DIY hasn’t had any rules applied by the YO but we’re all sensible. I keep myself safe by keeping a safe distance away from others and disinfecting everything I touch that could be contaminated and washing hands regularly.
		
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This is a good and very measured point. You are a very experienced horseman Paddy and believe it or not I do like reading your posts and your view on competition and vetinerinary matters is always very good. I'm sure you have a number of horses of your own and with full Livery being £4-500 a month per horse, would you really spend upwards of £1500 a month to not see your horse or verify its care?

Don't forget that Livery is a completely unregulated industry compared to children's nurseries or doggy day care or other parallels


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## Upthecreek (20 April 2020)

There are many factors which Yard Owners need to consider when making decisions on access for liveries at the moment. Let’s not forget this is an unprecedented situation which nobody is prepared for or knows how to deal with. Large yards that employ staff have a duty of care to provide a safe working environment for those staff. On smaller yards with no staff the YO has the right to make decisions on access based on their individual circumstances. If the liveries don’t like it they of course have the right to find alternative accommodation for their horses. It’s very easy for people on here to criticise and think they know better and it’s probably those people that would put everyone at risk by not taking adequate precautions so best they stay away.


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## Sussexbythesea (20 April 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			There are many factors which Yard Owners need to consider when making decisions on access for liveries at the moment. Let’s not forget this is an unprecedented situation which nobody is prepared for or knows how to deal with. Large yards that employ staff have a duty of care to provide a safe working environment for those staff. On smaller yards with no staff the YO has the right to make decisions on access based on their individual circumstances. If the liveries don’t like it they of course have the right to find alternative accommodation for their horses. It’s very easy for people on here to criticise and think they know better and it’s probably those people that would put everyone at risk by not taking adequate precautions so best they stay away.
		
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I can’t think of any yard that I’ve been on or visited that couldn’t put in provision to protect themselves and their staff whilst still allowing controlled access. Many yards are doing just this. People are still working in supermarkets where the footfall is much higher and many many potentially contaminated surfaces as well as many staff and processes to control and yet they manage.


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## Winters100 (20 April 2020)

Sussexbythesea said:



			People are still working in supermarkets where the footfall is much higher and many many potentially contaminated surfaces as well as many staff and processes to control and yet they manage.
		
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This is absolutely true that people are (thankfully) still working in supermarkets, gas stations and other essential businesses.  However the key here is that we are being asked to avoid non essential contact.  So visiting a food shop is essential contact, caring for your DIY horse is also essential, but visiting your horse who has adequate care simply because you would like to see them is non-essential.  However we try to read the regulations the purpose is clearly to keep everyone home as much as possible. Surely, given the number of deaths and the sacrifices being made, this is not too much to ask?


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## Upthecreek (20 April 2020)

Sussexbythesea said:



			I can’t think of any yard that I’ve been on or visited that couldn’t put in provision to protect themselves and their staff whilst still allowing controlled access. Many yards are doing just this. People are still working in supermarkets where the footfall is much higher and many many potentially contaminated surfaces as well as many staff and processes to control and yet they manage.
		
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Yes people are still working in supermarkets but food is essential for survival. I completely agree that many yards could put provision in place to allow controlled access and many around here have done so since lockdown was extended and the initial panic about what to do for the best has subsided. If liveries are unhappy with current arrangements at their yard they should come up with a sensible proposal which they all agree to and nominate someone to put it to the Yard Owner. If YO is unapproachable or not willing to consider this without good reason then it's surely it's an easy decision to move yards.


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## Sussexbythesea (20 April 2020)

Winters100 said:



			This is absolutely true that people are (thankfully) still working in supermarkets, gas stations and other essential businesses.  However the key here is that we are being asked to avoid non essential contact.  So visiting a food shop is essential contact, caring for your DIY horse is also essential, but visiting your horse who has adequate care simply because you would like to see them is non-essential.  However we try to read the regulations the purpose is clearly to keep everyone home as much as possible. Surely, given the number of deaths and the sacrifices being made, this is not too much to ask?
		
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Yes it is too much to ask as far as I’m concerned but luckily I’m not affected just supporting others. How do you know your horse has adequate care if you cannot check on it? There are many people in the horse industry I wouldn’t trust one iota with my horses care unless I was keeping a close eye. 

I’ll never agree with you in this.


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## The Jokers Girl (20 April 2020)

Although I haven't been banned from my yard, we just have some restrictions in place but still get to see our horses and ride every day, if we chose, the yard next door to me has closed.  It closed the week before official lockdown and of the 25 liveries that were there only 8 are left.  17 have left in 5 weeks.  I feel dreadful for anyone kept apart from their horse and those that are currently trapped in yards that are banning visits I hope you all vote with your feet when you are able.  I think some yard owners don't deserve the luxury of having a livery yard, as they just don't have the people skills or compassion to run them well.


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## AlDestoor (20 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			that could well be true however I doubt well run yards will have any problems in taking on new liveries.
		
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It's actually I'm told the opposite. I'm told that professional yards are all shut down (they arent, just what I've been told by the few I've spoken to)

I do think my last sentence about having more guidance for yard owners still stands. I dont think I'm wrong in saying that, but being someone who was disinfecting said yard you've read about, with my own disinfectant because non had been made available. Spraying yard bolts because they're shared with the yard managers- I dont think I've done anything to warrant their actions on my other post. Feel free to pm though and I'll happily share with you the screen shots of my conversations with them. I think the current guidelines leave a lot to be desired and are open to alot of interpretation which are leading alot of people into stress (yard owners included) about doing the right thing. That is in no way about my yard owner, that is in general and I'm sure alot of liveries would support what I am saying.

Fyi- I've not once said yards shouldn't be restricted. I've reiterated that the approach should be realistic as these are not their horses but I understand it's their home.


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## SO1 (20 April 2020)

The situation is different now than it was 3 weeks ago. People are now realising that the problem will not go in a few months. Highly vulnerable people may have to self isolate until there is a vaccine. I can totally understand if a YO falls into that category & wants to protect themselves & have access to their own horses the safest thing for them is to not let customers access the yard until there is a vaccine regardless of if there is a lockdown or not. However they need to consider how they would manage financially if all their liveries left over the next 18 months & they couldn't get another job due to having to self isolate.

If they want to keep the business going then they need to think about what their customers will accept over the next 18 months most people would accept no access for 3-6 weeks but if becomes 3-6 months or more then lots of people would struggle with that. Would for example customers accept a weekly slot to visit their horse at a time when the YO or vulnerable staff were not on the yard for example evenings. I appreciate that big yards with 30+ owners is going to be difficult to timetable if you only want one livery on the yard at a time whereas smaller yards would be easier.

I think the question to ask is if access has primarily been stopped due to the lockdown guidance or if it is to protect themselves. If it is the later then it would useful to what would need to change in order for you to have access to the yard. If it is a vaccine then it could be years before you get access again & you might want to consider moving your horse.

With DIY yards with owners who do wish for liveries to access the yard in order to protect themselves then they will probably end up shutting as their customers won't accept full livery costs for that long.


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## Winters100 (20 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			The situation is different now than it was 3 weeks ago. People are now realising that the problem will not go in a few months.
		
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I'm pretty sure that not many people thought it would be gone in a few months, and I think we can assume that for the UK it will be a long haul given the late implementation of the restrictions.  I also see a lot in the UK press about restrictions being relaxed in other countries, but it is worth remembering that many of these reductions still leave more stringent restrictions than the UK. For example here the concessions are that national forests and parks are now opened, in shops of less than 100 sq m 4 people are allowed inside rather than 3, larger shops 1 person per 15 sq m, children over 13 are now allowed in the streets without a parent, but borders are closed, quarantine is monitored by the military, you have to wear a mask outside your own property and unnecessary travel is still prohibited.  The UK should not rely on reports that other countries are relaxing restrictions as evidence that it will be over soon, especially given that the modest relaxing of restrictions here comes with a death rate of 10 per million of population compared with 243 in the UK.


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## Gingerwitch (21 April 2020)

Lucy-Jay said:



			It's actually I'm told the opposite. I'm told that professional yards are all shut down (they arent, just what I've been told by the few I've spoken to)

I do think my last sentence about having more guidance for yard owners still stands. I dont think I'm wrong in saying that, but being someone who was disinfecting said yard you've read about, with my own disinfectant because non had been made available. Spraying yard bolts because they're shared with the yard managers- I dont think I've done anything to warrant their actions on my other post. Feel free to pm though and I'll happily share with you the screen shots of my conversations with them. I think the current guidelines leave a lot to be desired and are open to alot of interpretation which are leading alot of people into stress (yard owners included) about doing the right thing. That is in no way about my yard owner, that is in general and I'm sure alot of liveries would support what I am saying.

Fyi- I've not once said yards shouldn't be restricted. I've reiterated that the approach should be realistic as these are not their horses but I understand it's their home.
		
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Dont send paddy PM's as she will post them on the forum


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## maya2008 (21 April 2020)

A friend and I had a conversation yesterday - the pressure on the NHS will go on for many months.  So many people will turn horses away and not ride.  Others won't be allowed to even if they wanted to.  Then when things calm down, we will have owners and riders who have lost their riding muscles, on unfit horses, some of whom will be hot blooded competition horses who are sparky at the best of times; have probably changed shape so their saddles don't fit etc. She reckoned that will increase the number of horse related accidents!   I hope not, but can see her point.


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## Sussexbythesea (21 April 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			Yes people are still working in supermarkets but food is essential for survival. I completely agree that many yards could put provision in place to allow controlled access and many around here have done so since lockdown was extended and the initial panic about what to do for the best has subsided. If liveries are unhappy with current arrangements at their yard they should come up with a sensible proposal which they all agree to and nominate someone to put it to the Yard Owner. If YO is unapproachable or not willing to consider this without good reason then it's surely it's an easy decision to move yards.
		
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Winters100 said:



			I'm pretty sure that not many people thought it would be gone in a few months, and I think we can assume that for the UK it will be a long haul given the late implementation of the restrictions.  I also see a lot in the UK press about restrictions being relaxed in other countries, but it is worth remembering that many of these reductions still leave more stringent restrictions than the UK. For example here the concessions are that national forests and parks are now opened, in shops of less than 100 sq m 4 people are allowed inside rather than 3, larger shops 1 person per 15 sq m, children over 13 are now allowed in the streets without a parent, but borders are closed, quarantine is monitored by the military, you have to wear a mask outside your own property and unnecessary travel is still prohibited.  The UK should not rely on reports that other countries are relaxing restrictions as evidence that it will be over soon, especially given that the modest relaxing of restrictions here comes with a death rate of 10 per million of population compared with 243 in the UK.
		
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Meanwhile the virus is still circulating in the population and around the world. As soon as you lift any restrictions more people will get it. There is no cure although understanding of treatment is improving and importantly there is no vaccine nor is there likely to be. As far as I’m aware no one has ever developed an effective vaccine for a Coronavirus so this may not ever happen and if it does it’s unlikely  to be 100 per cent effective. It’s just a managing numbers game at the moment and that’s not likely to change for a very long time. You’ll have to completely isolate a population from the rest of the world forever to get rid of it and keep it out. That’s just not feasible in the medium to long term. At some point restrictions will have to lift even if we operate differently in society.


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## AlDestoor (21 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Dont send paddy PM's as she will post them on the forum
		
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Thanks for the heads up- She's also clearly searched my other posts which is a little strange!


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## ester (21 April 2020)

That's not really strange at all, sometimes it helps if you have miss a thread which had extra info it in


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## tristar (21 April 2020)

The Jokers Girl said:



			Although I haven't been banned from my yard, we just have some restrictions in place but still get to see our horses and ride every day, if we chose, the yard next door to me has closed.  It closed the week before official lockdown and of the 25 liveries that were there only 8 are left.  17 have left in 5 weeks.  I feel dreadful for anyone kept apart from their horse and those that are currently trapped in yards that are banning visits I hope you all vote with your feet when you are able.  I think some yard owners don't deserve the luxury of having a livery yard, as they just don't have the people skills or compassion to run them well.
		
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that last sentence is so true


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## Gingerwitch (21 April 2020)

I find it amazing that the people bleating about how selfish people are at wanting to see there animals and supporting yards for doing this are the very ones that still have access to their horses.   


tristar said:



			that last sentence is so true
		
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I totally agree


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## stormox (21 April 2020)

Some people are sadly kept away from their families, and other relatives.    If keeping away from your horse for a short while slows the spread of the pandemic - so be it. Try and look at the bigger picture.
It isn't only about keeping social distancing at the yard. It is extra fuel and unnecessary journeys meaning more filling up at garages.... more traffic on the roads meaning more chance of accidents putting pressure on NHS.
The more you are out and about the more difficult it is to trace and test your contacts ...again putting pressure on the front line workers.
If people dont comply this will only go on for longer..


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## AlDestoor (21 April 2020)

I completely get why people would not want to be away though. 

For myself, my horse has had 2 surgeries and been in strict rehab ever since. I wouldn't trust anybody else to follow the program I put in place and neither should I have to pay for it. All of which, if not done correctly, could have an impact on my horse ever being ridden again. To me, I deem this as essential care and something which I wouldn't want anybody else to do bare me- but I may just be a control freak!


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## Sussexbythesea (21 April 2020)

stormox said:



			Some people are sadly kept away from their families, and other relatives.    If keeping away from your horse for a short while slows the spread of the pandemic - so be it. Try and look at the bigger picture.
It isn't only about keeping social distancing at the yard. It is extra fuel and unnecessary journeys meaning more filling up at garages.... more traffic on the roads meaning more chance of accidents putting pressure on NHS.
The more you are out and about the more difficult it is to trace and test your contacts ...again putting pressure on the front line workers.
If people dont comply this will only go on for longer..
		
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Well there’s plenty of fuel and at rock bottom prices. There’s much less traffic on the road anyway although there is a rise in reckless driving from some of my personal observations. There are lots of non essential businesses still operating eg gardeners, some building. My local NHS is running at 60% capacity according to local news so not overrun. So far numbers of cases/deaths per day seems to be stabilising.

The biggest risk is still from mixing with unknown people at work or when shopping so the biggest lowering of risk of transmission would be to introduce more measures there. It may be essential but it’s still the risk that could be significantly managed down. How about NHS staff and other care staff actually having adequate PPE? 

Focusing on the wrong risks is easy and detracts from the real ones. The fact is going to see your horse won’t affect how long we are in lockdown.


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## tristar (21 April 2020)

but people for the most part can help themselves,   animals can`t and involve intensive management, i have every sympathy with all horses owners who stressing about  the welfare of their animals at this time, and trying to cope with a bad situation themselves at this time, i don`t think they are selfish, they have rights, and i admire their honest concern about what is happening to their animals at this time.

after what i`ve seen done to animals, i back to the hilt 100 per cent caring owners

and anyway the bottom line is the concerned owner is probably the one who will take the best precautions,  to ensure continued access will not be put at risk,  by observing  social distancing etc


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## merlinsquest (21 April 2020)

My friend runs a yard with 50 liveries, they are on lockdown & not able to come onto the yard at all, staff only. With this many people social distancing or a rota would be almost impossible & all touching gates & things, however I think if I were a livery there the staff posting pictures of themselves riding their own horses, sitting in the tea room together etc  would start to grate after a while. I appreciate that it’s a balancing act & my friend the YM is being responsible, but IMO it’s not sustainable, people won’t continue to pay for horses that they can’t see indefinitely. In her shoes, I have no idea what the answer is, it’s a difficult one


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## Gingerwitch (21 April 2020)

merlinsquest said:



			My friend runs a yard with 50 liveries, they are on lockdown & not able to come onto the yard at all, staff only. With this many people social distancing or a rota would be almost impossible & all touching gates & things, however I think if I were a livery there the staff posting pictures of themselves riding their own horses, sitting in the tea room together etc  would start to grate after a while. I appreciate that it’s a balancing act & my friend the YM is being responsible, but IMO it’s not sustainable, people won’t continue to pay for horses that they can’t see indefinitely. In her shoes, I have no idea what the answer is, it’s a difficult one
		
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MQ, sorry if she even only allowed one owner on once an hour, made them wear gloves, washed hands when they got out the car and only let them touch their own horse she would have from 7am until 7 pm that is 12 hours, in 4 days every owner pretty much could see their horse,, how difficult is that to organise ?


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## The Jokers Girl (21 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			I find it amazing that the people bleating about how selfish people are at wanting to see there animals and supporting yards for doing this are the very ones that still have access to their horses.   


I totally agree
		
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Apologies if your comment wasn't aimed at me GW (as I do still have access to my horse) but  I don't support yards that have closed at all.  I am appalled at yards that have banned liveries, whilst still collecting, in some cases upwards of £500 a month in livery.  I also know of a yard that has banned farriers!!!
I still have access to my horse and I in no way support yards who are stopping owners attending.  I hope the liveries that are on these yards at the moment leave at the 1st opportunity and these awful yard owners finally understand how their liveries feel when they have no visible business left.


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## paddy555 (21 April 2020)

Lucy-Jay said:



			Thanks for the heads up- She's also clearly searched my other posts which is a little strange!
		
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I haven't searched your other posts only the thread about given notice to leave which is/was live. I am afraid I simply don't have the time or the interest to search your or other people's posts.


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## paddy555 (21 April 2020)

The Jokers Girl said:



			I think some yard owners don't deserve the luxury of having a livery yard,
		
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I know now why I would never have liveries. This says it all. The attitude of the average horse owner in a livery yard. 

Those yard owners could of course be struggling in this lockdown, and we are still in a lockdown and the formal lockdown may well be extended.. They still have to pay their expenses, loans, rates, bills etc. They could well be paying forage bills and having to accommodate owners who, through no fault of their own, cannot afford their livery fees. They are still having to  pay contractors to move the muck heap, harrow the fields, repair fencing and then they have to pay for it.  They may be having to do a lot more work themselves if their yards are locked down. They could well be juggling the viability of their business, the viability of their overdraft, whether it is safe to let people near due to their vulnerable families or even their own underlying health issue.
I guess many are wondering as to how they can continue their business in the months to come, if in fact they should continue. All this alongside their key worker friends or family having to go into the HNS or supermarket to work.

Then they are faced with liveries who think it is too  much to ask they can't see their horse in this exceptional period.

You say you are appalled at yards that have banned liveries yet still collecting their livery fees. Try and remember the livery fees pay for the yard's expenses. Those expenses haven't gone away.

I am at a  loss to understand why any of the owners on here who are unhappy with their livery yard  are moaning about it. The answer is very simple. Go to yard even if locked down, put headcollar on horse, clip rope on and walk through the gates. You can do it this afternoon. No need for  any of you to be unhappy.

If you don't want to do that try and have some tolerance for the YO. I doubt they asked to be put in this position.


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## Abi90 (21 April 2020)

My YO is absolutely wonderful and has everything spot on as far as I’m concerned. I feel for those who are banned from their horses.

I think when it was initially 3 weeks, and it was never going to be just 3 weeks, it’s not so bad but as social distancing is likely to last potentially 12 months or longer there needs to be a plan moving forward, I could now be on DIY quite easily but I love my yard and set up but if I was banned from my horse I would probably be looking to move her to the DIY yard 200 metres from my office! 

I get that for some people their yard is also their home but I assume they don’t let liveries into their actual garden or house?


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## merlinsquest (21 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			MQ, sorry if she even only allowed one owner on once an hour, made them wear gloves, washed hands when they got out the car and only let them touch their own horse she would have from 7am until 7 pm that is 12 hours, in 4 days every owner pretty much could see their horse,, how difficult is that to organise ?
		
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No idea, her yard, her rules & I don’t keep my horse there, maybe with herself & 3 staff doing all the horses including the DIYs she’s too knackered to supervise people as well. If the staff get ill who will cover the yard? With that many people it wouldn’t be simple with who could get there at certain times, need to bring their kids up as well so suddenly more people.  I’m not saying she’s right or wrong, just that I’m agreeing with other posters who think that this won’t be sustainable over a long period.


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## Gingerwitch (21 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			I know now why I would never have liveries. This says it all. The attitude of the average horse owner in a livery yard. 

Those yard owners could of course be struggling in this lockdown, and we are still in a lockdown and the formal lockdown may well be extended.. They still have to pay their expenses, loans, rates, bills etc. They could well be paying forage bills and having to accommodate owners who, through no fault of their own, cannot afford their livery fees. They are still having to  pay contractors to move the muck heap, harrow the fields, repair fencing and then they have to pay for it.  They may be having to do a lot more work themselves if their yards are locked down. They could well be juggling the viability of their business, the viability of their overdraft, whether it is safe to let people near due to their vulnerable families or even their own underlying health issue.
I guess many are wondering as to how they can continue their business in the months to come, if in fact they should continue. All this alongside their key worker friends or family having to go into the HNS or supermarket to work.

Then they are faced with liveries who think it is too  much to ask they can't see their horse in this exceptional period.

You say you are appalled at yards that have banned liveries yet still collecting their livery fees. Try and remember the livery fees pay for the yard's expenses. Those expenses haven't gone away.

I am at a  loss to understand why any of the owners on here who are unhappy with their livery yard  are moaning about it. The answer is very simple. Go to yard even if locked down, put headcollar on horse, clip rope on and walk through the gates. You can do it this afternoon. No need for  any of you to be unhappy.

If you don't want to do that try and have some tolerance for the YO. I doubt they asked to be put in this position.
		
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I did and so have many of the others at my previous yard and guess what the yard owner now cannot pay me back my deposit and is trying to build bridges, well once bitten twice shy.

Yard Owners keep banging on that they want to be treated like a business, but then still want to behave how it suits them as and when it suits them but expect the liveries to carry on handing over hundreds of pounds. 

One of my clients is working, they expect me to provide them with the traction and drivers to continue to work, it is a non essential business ie. if they do not continue to provide the item no one will starve.  Guess what they would say to me if I said oh were on lock down, you must carry on paying for the trucks and trailers even though I have banned you from using them - note the word I, not the government.  What do you think they would say ?

As to your point about the livery fees pay for the yards expenses, those expenses haven't gone away - no but many peoples earning capacity has, and the vast majority are going without to ensure that they pay their bills on time and in full, but you honestly think that owners should just put up and shut up ?  Who is sorting out farriers, who is checking that the horses have enough to eat ? how many yards have cut back on feed knowing that the horses cannot pick up a phone and whats app - look what I have for tea".

Yes some yard owners are honourable, but their is a significant number that are just about breaking even or turning a small profit, do you honestly think that they have not cut back on feed and bedding when there is no one there to tell on them ?


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## Gingerwitch (21 April 2020)

merlinsquest said:



			No idea, her yard, her rules & I don’t keep my horse there, maybe with herself & 3 staff doing all the horses including the DIYs she’s too knackered to supervise people as well. If the staff get ill who will cover the yard? With that many people it wouldn’t be simple with who could get there at certain times, need to bring their kids up as well so suddenly more people.  I’m not saying she’s right or wrong, just that I’m agreeing with other posters who think that this won’t be sustainable over a long period.
		
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MQ - not popping at you at all, but horse owners given the chance will organise themselves if it means they can see their horses i.e.  put a face book post with a list of times, stress the rules and bobs your uncle.  or your aunt in these gender neutral times


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## AlDestoor (21 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Yes some yard owners are honourable, but their is a significant number that are just about breaking even or turning a small profit, do you honestly think that they have not cut back on feed and bedding when there is no one there to tell on them ?
		
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This is why I insist on going to my horses every day. Just because you are paying for a service, doesn't mean the horses care is on par with your own, and if I'm forking out hundreds- I expect this to be kept to. However, if I'm restricted from seeing my horse, and these yards aren't regulated, then who knows WHAT is happening with your horse. I really don't trust others, especially yards to do the same standard of care as my own. Too many horror stories about.


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## The Jokers Girl (21 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			I know now why I would never have liveries. This says it all. The attitude of the average horse owner in a livery yard. 

Those yard owners could of course be struggling in this lockdown, and we are still in a lockdown and the formal lockdown may well be extended.. They still have to pay their expenses, loans, rates, bills etc. They could well be paying forage bills and having to accommodate owners who, through no fault of their own, cannot afford their livery fees. They are still having to  pay contractors to move the muck heap, harrow the fields, repair fencing and then they have to pay for it.  They may be having to do a lot more work themselves if their yards are locked down. They could well be juggling the viability of their business, the viability of their overdraft, whether it is safe to let people near due to their vulnerable families or even their own underlying health issue.
I guess many are wondering as to how they can continue their business in the months to come, if in fact they should continue. All this alongside their key worker friends or family having to go into the HNS or supermarket to work.

Then they are faced with liveries who think it is too  much to ask they can't see their horse in this exceptional period.

You say you are appalled at yards that have banned liveries yet still collecting their livery fees. Try and remember the livery fees pay for the yard's expenses. Those expenses haven't gone away.

I am at a  loss to understand why any of the owners on here who are unhappy with their livery yard  are moaning about it. The answer is very simple. Go to yard even if locked down, put headcollar on horse, clip rope on and walk through the gates. You can do it this afternoon. No need for  any of you to be unhappy.

If you don't want to do that try and have some tolerance for the YO. I doubt they asked to be put in this position.
		
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Well as you don't seem affected by what's going on your opinion is entirely irrelevant to me.  You don't have liveries therefore you are not banning any and you seem to have your own yard so are not one of the poor people devastated by being kept away from their cherished pet, some of which need regular medical care.  You just like to jump on anyone with a different opinion to you, on a subject that doesn't affect you.

No government rules or newly introduced laws ban liveries from attending to their horses or from travelling to attend them.  The messages some yard owners are sending and the fact they are banning essential care to maintain welfare tells me all I need to know about these yard owners and makes me eternally grateful for my wonderful yard owner who called a meeting to let us all know she appreciates our horses are our lives, but can we please follow the restrictions she has in place to protect the staff.  We have all done that and not one person has come down with any illness.

It's also not possible for some people to just turn up with a head collar as some yard are padlocking gates so no way to get horse out.  One yard has threatened a livery with tying her horse up to lampost outside the yard on the road if she attempts to use the public footpath that crosses the land to check on the horse.

Some friends have managed to move their horses after having not seen them for a month to find them covered in cuts and fly bits and not having been brushed or had their feet attended to so owners banned from seeing their horses are absolutely within their rights to be upset, distressed and hacked off.

You are the sort of person that doesn't deserve a livery yard as you have no compassion or understanding


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## paddy555 (21 April 2020)

The Jokers Girl said:



			You are the sort of person that doesn't deserve a livery yard as you have no compassion or understanding
		
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wrong. I have a lot of compassion. It just happens to be for people suffering with this virus. Those who cannot visit their elderly relatives who are dying in care homes, or ICU wards. Those living with people whose health is already compromised and who may well not make it if they get the virus. Those having to work in hospitals who have to live away from their partners and their kids.  That sort of thing. It is in all our interests IMHO to try and prevent the spread or all this lockdown will have been a waste of time. 

If someone has a distressed relative in a care home they are not allowed to visit and may never see again or someone with a horse who hasn't been brushed I just have more sympathy for the former. 

However both of our opinions are irrelevant in this instance. Yard owner's yard, yard owner's rules. Don't like it, move. 

I do find it surprising that people are happy to keep a horse in a yard where they clearly don't trust the owner/staff to provide even basic care.


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## Ossy2 (21 April 2020)

Our yard initially banned liveries we’re a yard of 24 horses at the YO’s house, they also have a granny flat on site where their elderly parents live so accepted it initially.  We are all full or part liveries and YO put part liveries all on full in fairness at no extra cost. They lost 10 liveries in the space of the first 3 weeks of lockdown. Is the YO struggling now because of the empty stables yes more than likely but that’s a choice they made at the time. We have now moved onto allocated time slots and it’s working really well probably because they’re less people to arrange access too.
I agree at some point YO’s are going to have to think about their arrangements and the long term viability of their yard I’d have thought a lot are going to have to relax their arrangements if they’re going to keep going.


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## maya2008 (21 April 2020)

I have friends in this position - we decided years ago not to be on a yard ever again. This is another reason to comfort me when I enjoy the perks of schooling with no school and sorting stuff with no facilities. The alternative (for us at least) could be so much worse! I have an older horse whose long-term companion died last year. Even before that she panicked if I was away for long. She has been known to break through fencing to try to find me, so no way could I leave her without contact for weeks on end, however well cared for she was.  I have had her nearly all her life.


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## Gingerwitch (21 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			I do find it surprising that people are happy to keep a horse in a yard where they clearly don't trust the owner/staff to provide even basic care.
		
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Unfortunately Paddy you are totally missing the point, trusting the owner/staff to provide even basic care is one thing when you are turning up at any point during the day.  Trusting the owner/staff to provide even basic care when you have been banned and they know you are not going to turn up is another.


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## Dyllymoo (21 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			Unfortunately Paddy you are totally missing the point, trusting the owner/staff to provide even basic care is one thing when you are turning up at any point during the day.  Trusting the owner/staff to provide even basic care when you have been banned and they know you are not going to turn up is another.
		
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Honestly, I don't think it is.  I'm DIY but I know for a fact if YO was to take charge either due to CV or if I went on holiday, he would be well cared for and his needs met (food, water, clean bed etc.).  As soon as I don't trust somewhere to look after my horse then I leave the yard (and that's even on DIY!).


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## sarahann1 (21 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			If someone has a distressed relative in a care home they are not allowed to visit and may never see again or someone with a horse who hasn't been brushed I just have more sympathy for the former.
		
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I’m in both these boats, there is a real possibility I may never see my gran again, nor would I be able to attend her funeral. 

I’m worried about her and my horse is my sanity, she’s what helps keep me on the right side of the bridge so to speak. I don’t have access to her, it’s a pretty rubbish situation to be in. Thankfully the drugs I’ve been given work for now. 

This is not a simple black and white situation, there are many, many shades of grey.


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## Upthecreek (21 April 2020)

Hard though it is I think we all have to try to understand that whilst we’re all going through the same life experience how it affects us will be different depending on our individual circumstances. As far as seeing our horses goes of course we all want to be able to do that, but we also have to accept that life as we know it has changed in the last month and that means we have all had to change the way we go about our lives and make some sacrifices. As I said before, anyone unhappy with access to their horse or the care being provided if they can’t visit should discuss this with the Yard Owner and if a resolution cannot be found you can make the decision to move your horse. The issue of trust is a different matter altogether and I personally would not keep horses somewhere that I didn’t trust the staff to provide appropriate care, even if I was visiting daily.


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## SO1 (21 April 2020)

In this scenario there must be a lot of staff in order to keep 50 horses exercised. 

My vet said he is seeing more laminitis cases than normal as more horses being turned away or exercise stopped. For those yards that are stopping access I hope that they are putting in provision for those horses that could be prone to laminitis if they don't have regular exercise if exercise is not included as part of the livery. 



merlinsquest said:



			My friend runs a yard with 50 liveries, they are on lockdown & not able to come onto the yard at all, staff only. With this many people social distancing or a rota would be almost impossible & all touching gates & things, however I think if I were a livery there the staff posting pictures of themselves riding their own horses, sitting in the tea room together etc  would start to grate after a while. I appreciate that it’s a balancing act & my friend the YM is being responsible, but IMO it’s not sustainable, people won’t continue to pay for horses that they can’t see indefinitely. In her shoes, I have no idea what the answer is, it’s a difficult one
		
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## stormox (21 April 2020)

Please tell me if Im wrong as Im in Ireland and lockdown is stricter here, but I think the rules are (in both countries) are you may travel to attend to animals if you are the 'primary carer'. 
So if your horse is on DIY livery the owner is the primary carer, but if the horse is on full livery the YO is.
Its all a bit ambiguous though as if an owner of a full livery horse usually goes up and rides, grooms feeds etc, books farrier , gives wormers etc surely they are as much the carer as the YO who just feeds and mucks out.
I have 2 yards nearby, one is totally closed it doesnt have DIY liveries, the other has both DIY and full and everyones allowed to go to their horse as usual as long as they obey hygeine and social distancing.
However, I also know plenty of people who have elderly relatives or aged parents they aren't allowed to see
and elderly people in care homes that have to stay in their rooms and havent seen a soul since this started.
Lets hope the virus gets tl manageable levels before too long.


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## ecb89 (21 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			In this scenario there must be a lot of staff in order to keep 50 horses exercised.

My vet said he is seeing more laminitis cases than normal as more horses being turned away or exercise stopped. For those yards that are stopping access I hope that they are putting in provision for those horses that could be prone to laminitis if they don't have regular exercise if exercise is not included as part of the livery.
		
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My yard offers exercise, at a cost. However this would add probably £100 a week on top of my nearly £600 a month livery bill. I just can’t afford it


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## Gingerwitch (21 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			In this scenario there must be a lot of staff in order to keep 50 horses exercised.

My vet said he is seeing more laminitis cases than normal as more horses being turned away or exercise stopped. For those yards that are stopping access I hope that they are putting in provision for those horses that could be prone to laminitis if they don't have regular exercise if exercise is not included as part of the livery.
		
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Some yards are and charging a pretty penny for them to be wanged round on the end of a lunge for 20 mins, well who knows if they are even being worked?

I know you think i am cynical but a very good friend of mine paid a yard to school her horse whilst she was away for a 3 week holiday, note school not exercise.  The yard owner used that horse for lessons, yes lessons and still charged the owner full schooling livery.  My little TB was left with rain scald after a yard decided that they were too busy to change his rugs when I was ill a couple of years ago, and I have witnessed first hand a yard not mucking out a liveries horses until the day they were due back off holiday, this was the same yard where the yard owner would walk round and take hay nets out of horses stables after the livery had gone.


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## SO1 (21 April 2020)

The gov website says you can leave the house to care for your horse. There is no mention of having to be the primary carer or for the care provided to be basic. I am normally on part livery & the care I provide for him for his welfare are grooming & exercise. Exercise is a very important part of his care as without exercise he would become obese & probably get laminitis.



stormox said:



			Please tell me if Im wrong as Im in Ireland and lockdown is stricter here, but I think the rules are (in both countries) are you may travel to attend to animals if you are the 'primary carer'.
So if your horse is on DIY livery the owner is the primary carer, but if the horse is on full livery the YO is.
Its all a bit ambiguous though as if an owner of a full livery horse usually goes up and rides, grooms feeds etc, books farrier , gives wormers etc surely they are as much the carer as the YO who just feeds and mucks out.
I have 2 yards nearby, one is totally closed it doesnt have DIY liveries, the other has both DIY and full and everyones allowed to go to their horse as usual as long as they obey hygeine and social distancing.
However, I also know plenty of people who have elderly relatives or aged parents they aren't allowed to see
and elderly people in care homes that have to stay in their rooms and havent seen a soul since this started.
Lets hope the virus gets tl manageable levels before too long.
		
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## paddy555 (21 April 2020)

sarahann1 said:



			I’m in both these boats, there is a real possibility I may never see my gran again, nor would I be able to attend her funeral.
		
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I'm sorry. I hope your gran is OK.


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## Leandy (21 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			The gov website says you can leave the house to care for your horse. There is no mention of having to be the primary carer or for the care provided to be basic. I am normally on part livery & the care I provide for him for his welfare are grooming & exercise. Exercise is a very important part of his care as without exercise he would become obese & probably get laminitis
		
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We can also leave the house for our own exercise.  As riding is a sport I class riding as exercise for me.  Recent police guidance also clarifies that one can drive a short distance for somewhere suitable to exercise.  I think it is more helpful to class riding as exercise rather than care where a horse is on part or full livery rather than DIY.


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## tristar (21 April 2020)

merlinsquest said:



			My friend runs a yard with 50 liveries, they are on lockdown & not able to come onto the yard at all, staff only. With this many people social distancing or a rota would be almost impossible & all touching gates & things, however I think if I were a livery there the staff posting pictures of themselves riding their own horses, sitting in the tea room together etc  would start to grate after a while. I appreciate that it’s a balancing act & my friend the YM is being responsible, but IMO it’s not sustainable, people won’t continue to pay for horses that they can’t see indefinitely. In her shoes, I have no idea what the answer is, it’s a difficult one
		
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Gingerwitch said:



			Some yards are and charging a pretty penny for them to be wanged round on the end of a lunge for 20 mins, well who knows if they are even being worked?

I know you think i am cynical but a very good friend of mine paid a yard to school her horse whilst she was away for a 3 week holiday, note school not exercise.  The yard owner used that horse for lessons, yes lessons and still charged the owner full schooling livery.  My little TB was left with rain scald after a yard decided that they were too busy to change his rugs when I was ill a couple of years ago, and I have witnessed first hand a yard not mucking out a liveries horses until the day they were due back off holiday, this was the same yard where the yard owner would walk round and take hay nets out of horses stables after the livery had gone.
		
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this is why people want access to their horses


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## sherry90 (21 April 2020)

If I didn’t trust my yard - I quite simply wouldn’t be there. It’s all well and good saying you are DIY but if you became unwell and weren’t able to go, you’d either have to have a freelancer or trust the yard staff. If you don’t trust them before this to care for your horse, even on a basic level, they why are entrusting your horse to remain on the property at all? My YO does late checks, would inform me if something was unusual with my horse and has ridden for me when I’ve been on holiday (not usually part of the livery package) I trust them implicitly. I’ve been on DIY too but again, trusted the YO with basic care that was sometimes called upon if I was working away etc.  

At first I felt guilty for going up to the yard in the week as felt ‘non essential’ being full livery Mon-Fri and gave him a week off. However, he is lami prone and gains weight off fresh air so with the grass coming through I need to nip this in the bud. I asked for weekday slots and my YO accommodated this so he is therefore worked x4 a week in my one hour slots during the week. At the weekend I’m DIY, I have an hour each day so I get my jobs done quickly and then if there is time, I will exercise him then too if not I know he’s had atleast x4 exercise each week. 
The yard don’t have enough time or staff to exercise horses as well as everything else associated with the running of the yard so I’m not able to tap into that. I’m needed to go for the welfare of my horse and so I use that as my daily exercise.l and after some internal battles I am now sure this is essential for my horses wellbeing. 

When the staff are there, 8-5 only one livery is rota’d on. Before 8am and after 5pm there are two liveries max put on an hour slot. We have a boot dip, hand wash and our own towels. We are not allowed to touch other liveries horses or the YO horses. The yard staff have their own dedicated tools and any shared tools have to be sanitised after you’ve used them. Doors are wiped down as are handles to the tack room. This is sensible, balanced and proportionate imo.


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## Ricotta (21 April 2020)

As the yard owners are running a business they also have to consider their responsibilities under health and safety law.  
https://www.ioshmagazine.com/2020/04/20/hse-issues-social-distancing-warning-employers


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## flying_high (21 April 2020)

sherry90 said:



			If I didn’t trust my yard - I quite simply wouldn’t be there..
		
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That only works if you have other viable options with spaces to move to. I like my current yard, but I have been in a situation, where I wanted to move but finding a yard that had space and was better was difficult and took time. Sometimes a yard looks ideal from the outside, and it only when you move in you find the wrinkles. 

I live in an area where there aren't many really good yards, lots with significant downsides.


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## bouncing_ball (21 April 2020)

paddy555 said:



			I know now why I would never have liveries. This says it all. The attitude of the average horse owner in a livery yard. 

Those yard owners could of course be struggling in this lockdown, and we are still in a lockdown and the formal lockdown may well be extended.. They still have to pay their expenses, loans, rates, bills etc. They could well be paying forage bills and having to accommodate owners who, through no fault of their own, cannot afford their livery fees. They are still having to  pay contractors to move the muck heap, harrow the fields, repair fencing and then they have to pay for it.  They may be having to do a lot more work themselves if their yards are locked down. They could well be juggling the viability of their business, the viability of their overdraft, whether it is safe to let people near due to their vulnerable families or even their own underlying health issue.
I guess many are wondering as to how they can continue their business in the months to come, if in fact they should continue. All this alongside their key worker friends or family having to go into the HNS or supermarket to work.

Then they are faced with liveries who think it is too  much to ask they can't see their horse in this exceptional period.

You say you are appalled at yards that have banned liveries yet still collecting their livery fees. Try and remember the livery fees pay for the yard's expenses. Those expenses haven't gone away.

I am at a  loss to understand why any of the owners on here who are unhappy with their livery yard  are moaning about it. The answer is very simple. Go to yard even if locked down, put headcollar on horse, clip rope on and walk through the gates. You can do it this afternoon. No need for  any of you to be unhappy.

If you don't want to do that try and have some tolerance for the YO. I doubt they asked to be put in this position.
		
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Echo this.

To give another view:

My horse is on 7 day part livery. I am pretty hands on and have been rehabbing my horse for last 18 months (some ups and downs). I am normally at the yard a lot, about 10 visits a week.
My yard is shut to liveries. I HATE the impact of the decision as my horse is hugely important to me, and I am a control freak and used to daily contact. More used to having multiple horses and being DIY. 
HOWEVER I support shutting the yard to liveries. I DO interpret the guidance as you can attend an animal if you are the primary care giver, you can leave home to exercise locally.

Yard is not local to home (it is to my normal place of work), and I am not the primary care giver.
I did think about the point the horse is 2/3 way through a 3 month vet rehabilitation programme.
However there are more than 30 horses on my yard, more than 100 associated people. And there are vulnerable people on site.

I leave my home to buy food, to exercise locally, work from home and that is it.

If I had horses on assisted DIY (have in past) of course I would still be doing them.

It helps that I trust my yard, they have been in regular contact, responsive, picking up extra care jobs, farriers and essential vets still going. Yard do regular photos and videos for liveries. Horses are in normal field groups and out all day, have grass but not enough to get fat.

Morally I cannot justify going to the yard to groom / rehab work / exercise my horse, when he is taken care of, it does not come under essential travel.

Personally I think those who are 7 day part or full livery, on a large yard that is a decent fully staffed yard, and are attending the yard to ride and groom are interpreting the rules to suit their purposes.


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## SO1 (21 April 2020)

How long would you would be willing to do this for? What happens if social distancing has to stay in place for 18 months or more for vulnerable people such as the ones on this site? Would you still be at this yard? 



bouncing_ball said:



			Echo this.

To give another view:

My horse is on 7 day part livery. I am pretty hands on and have been rehabbing my horse for last 18 months (some ups and downs). I am normally at the yard a lot, about 10 visits a week.
My yard is shut to liveries. I HATE the impact of the decision as my horse is hugely important to me, and I am a control freak and used to daily contact. More used to having multiple horses and being DIY.
HOWEVER I support shutting the yard to liveries. I DO interpret the guidance as you can attend an animal if you are the primary care giver, you can leave home to exercise locally.

Yard is not local to home (it is to my normal place of work), and I am not the primary care giver.
I did think about the point the horse is 2/3 way through a 3 month vet rehabilitation programme.
However there are more than 30 horses on my yard, more than 100 associated people. And there are vulnerable people on site.

I leave my home to buy food, to exercise locally, work from home and that is it.

If I had horses on assisted DIY (have in past) of course I would still be doing them.

It helps that I trust my yard, they have been in regular contact, responsive, picking up extra care jobs, farriers and essential vets still going. Yard do regular photos and videos for liveries. Horses are in normal field groups and out all day, have grass but not enough to get fat.

Morally I cannot justify going to the yard to groom / rehab work / exercise my horse, when he is taken care of, it does not come under essential travel.

Personally I think those who are 7 day part or full livery, on a large yard that is a decent fully staffed yard, and are attending the yard to ride and groom are interpreting the rules to suit their purposes.
		
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## teapot (21 April 2020)

Gingerwitch said:



			MQ - not popping at you at all, but horse owners given the chance will organise themselves if it means they can see their horses i.e.  put a face book post with a list of times, stress the rules and bobs your uncle.  or your aunt in these gender neutral times 

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Speaking from recent experience, that's fine, until you get one or two who flout the rules and ruin it for everyone else. Those then can't see what the problem is and it descends into chaos.

I think yards are damned if they do, and damned if they don't, and it is never easy to keep everyone happy, especially at the moment.


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## bouncing_ball (21 April 2020)

My understanding is there


SO1 said:



			How long would you would be willing to do this for? What happens if social distancing has to stay in place for 18 months or more for vulnerable people such as the ones on this site? Would you still be at this yard?
		
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My expectation is the government will loosen house lockdown at the end of the second three weeks whilst keeping a lot of social distancing and precautions in place.

My informed expectation is that this is pretty much guaranteed to prevent civil unrest.

My yard owner has said as soon as is ANY loosening from government she’ll put a rota for liveries in my place. 

The use of social distancing gloves / hand washing / avoiding common contact points was already in place at yard before the lockdown.


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## Honey08 (21 April 2020)

It’s interesting that a lot of you are grumbling about livery yards and saying people will leave yards.  I think it will work both ways.  I’ve some liveries that have understood the situation and appreciated that I’m doing my best to arrange things in a way that works for everyone and also that I’m doing a lot extra for free to facilitate it.  But I’ve had one that grumbled and sulked until I was at the point of telling them they could leave once lockdown was over.  It’s calmed down after a little chat a week or two ago, but it’s opened my eyes a bit and guess which livery I’d not miss if they went..


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## SO1 (21 April 2020)

I don't understand the logic on this. If the YO has stopped access to shield the vulnerable people on site, they won't stop being vulnerable if the government relaxes the restrictions in 3 weeks to prevent civil unrest. In some ways they will be more vulnerable as the virus will be still out there but people will more freedom so more likely to get it & spread it.



bouncing_ball said:



			My understanding is there


My expectation is the government will loosen house lockdown at the end of the second three weeks whilst keeping a lot of social distancing and precautions in place.

My informed expectation is that this is pretty much guaranteed to prevent civil unrest.

My yard owner has said as soon as is ANY loosening from government she’ll put a rota for liveries in my place.

The use of social distancing gloves / hand washing / avoiding common contact points was already in place at yard before the lockdown.
		
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## Winters100 (21 April 2020)

Honey08 said:



			It’s interesting that a lot of you are grumbling about livery yards and saying people will leave yards.  I think it will work both ways.  I’ve some liveries that have understood the situation and appreciated that I’m doing my best to arrange things in a way that works for everyone and also that I’m doing a lot extra for free to facilitate it.  But I’ve had one that grumbled and sulked until I was at the point of telling them they could leave once lockdown was over.  It’s calmed down after a little chat a week or two ago, but it’s opened my eyes a bit and guess which livery I’d not miss if they went..
		
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I also believe that there are a lot of owners out there who are very grateful to their YOs for taking good care and doing their best in these circumstances. I am certainly very grateful to mine, who is providing the extra services that I need to negate the necessity for me to visit the yard.  I am paying a very reasonable extra fee for this and do not feel in the slightest put out by this modest amount to cover their time in doing the 'extras'. 

Today I even had an call from my vet who had been there attending to another horse. My YO, knowing that I have a close relationship with the vet, asked him to check my horses so he could let me know that they are fine regarding weight and wearing appropriate rugs etc.   When it is sensible to visit them again I shall certainly be taking bottles of decent whiskey for him and the grooms to thank them for all of their many kindnesses during this time, which I am quite sure is as difficult and inconvenient for them as it is for me.


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## Frumpoon (21 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			I don't understand the logic on this. If the YO has stopped access to shield the vulnerable people on site, they won't stop being vulnerable if the government relaxes the restrictions in 3 weeks to prevent civil unrest. In some ways they will be more vulnerable as the virus will be still out there but people will more freedom so more likely to get it & spread it.
		
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Exactly this!

The virus or one like it is here to stay

Those vulnerable to catching it will remain so

Those vulnerable to dying from it will remain so

These 2 groups of people are not necessarily the same individuals


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## Winters100 (21 April 2020)

Frumpoon said:



			Exactly this!

The virus or one like it is here to stay

Those vulnerable to catching it will remain so

Those vulnerable to dying from it will remain so

These 2 groups of people are not necessarily the same individuals
		
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I agree with this, which is why I believe that going forward we all need to limit what we do, including in many cases time with our horses. Although I could legally visit my horses now I do not, and I see from the comments here that many in the UK have made the same choice.  Regardless of restrictions I am estimating that it will be September / October by the time that sufficient testing and contact tracing is in place to make it sensible for me to visit for anything other than an emergency.  Sad not to see them for such a long time, but others are suffering worse.  That having been said I totally support people who have welfare issues, horses in rehab, weight issues etc visiting them. We have a couple on our yard who fall into this category, and since mine are both uncomplicated I would hope that by staying away this helps them a little in leaving the yard empty for them to deal with essential care.

Regardless that YOs may feel under pressure to allow more access as restrictions are relaxed you are exactly right that the risks remain, so at that point it is up to everyone to try to do what they can to protect others.  I know that my YO makes modest, if any, profit from the liveries, and I would hate it if he decided that the risk / trouble outweighed the benefits as so many have.


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## Dave's Mam (21 April 2020)

I am feeling very blessed.  I am getting daily videos & photos of Dave enjoying his holidays.
I have been to see him twice since Lockdown & he's looking great & is not fat or feral.  I'm not very popular as I wormed him on Saturday, MEAN MAM.
I am going again this week to take pics of his feet for my farrier to decide if he needs to come, or if he can manage another few weeks.
Our yard is working really well, the owners that need to attend have their times & all horses are looking great.

I hope you're all keeping well & safe.


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## maya2008 (21 April 2020)

Long-term if this is here to stay, I guess some small yards will have to go back to being private and the owners back to a different job, if they have extremely vulnerable family members on site. You cannot expect people to stay away from their horses for 6 months/12 months/forever... Larger yards in that situation might be sold and the owners move maybe.  You can’t run a business if you cannot allow your customers on site, and if we don’t find a treatment/cure/vaccine then that danger remains indefinitely.

Hopefully it won’t come to that.


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## YorksG (21 April 2020)

I think in the long run a lot of yards will close. Those who are currently complaining may well end up with a great deal more to complain about! There will be a large number of horses that people cannot afford and a reduced number of livery yards. Not a good outlook for the equine population😒


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## LC2013 (21 April 2020)

SpringArising said:



			Those on DIY/assisted/part etc. who have been told to not go to the yard - are you going to be charged full livery prices?
		
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Yes, enforced full livery at a ridiculous cost. We are now not allowed up at all until the horses are out for Sumer which she refuses to do because she "knows best" (AKA profiteering) I can cope with not riding but not seeing him is ridiculous. I'm not 100% trustworthy of the owners as they have not been very cooperative or nice about the situation. A couple have leftalready, I may be next


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## YorksG (22 April 2020)

LC2013 said:



			Yes, enforced full livery at a ridiculous cost. We are now not allowed up at all until the horses are out for Sumer which she refuses to do because she "knows best" (AKA profiteering) I can cope with not riding but not seeing him is ridiculous. I'm not 100% trustworthy of the owners as they have not been very cooperative or nice about the situation. A couple have leftalready, I may be next
		
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Tbf it is very early for horses to be out at full grass livery, ours are out but we are giving hay daily, as the grass is not through enough yet.


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## paddy555 (22 April 2020)

Ours are still in at night so they can have hay. that is because I consider that is best for them.


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## Sussexbythesea (22 April 2020)

LC2013 said:



			Yes, enforced full livery at a ridiculous cost. We are now not allowed up at all until the horses are out for Sumer which she refuses to do because she "knows best" (AKA profiteering) I can cope with not riding but not seeing him is ridiculous. I'm not 100% trustworthy of the owners as they have not been very cooperative or nice about the situation. A couple have leftalready, I may be next
		
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Mine are out but to be fair the grass isn't really growing much as it’s been so dry over the last month here. We’ve individual paddocks that we manage ourselves so it’s different to a shared field situation. i can understand why it may not be possible for full turn out at the moment. However I feel for you on the not seeing your horse and paying extra though.


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## The Jokers Girl (22 April 2020)

YorksG said:



			Tbf it is very early for horses to be out at full grass livery, ours are out but we are giving hay daily, as the grass is not through enough yet.
		
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Not early particularly at all.  Ours are out for last 2 weeks, they always start summer grazing early April, as do a lot of yards in the area and further afield.  My old yard also turned out onto 20 acres around end of March early April.  They are on the land that has been rested over winter so plenty for the horses to eat without hay top up and we are not over grazed, enough land to sustain the number of horses and make hay with both summer and winter turnout.


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## Bernster (22 April 2020)

I agree with the above posts. It’s about risk management and obv I’m very aware of that. But not seeing a horse on livery for months is not sustainable for owners or YOs.  If that were happening, it would likely be part of other restrictions which would be tanking the economy.

I’m being ultra careful and for me the risk level would be very low (petrol stop and time at yard) which I think is manageable with the proper precautions.  I appreciate that, if we all do the same, it has a multiplier effect but of all activities which could be eased, heading up to a yard to ride solo must be one of the easiest.


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## Frumpoon (22 April 2020)

YorksG said:



			I think in the long run a lot of yards will close. Those who are currently complaining may well end up with a great deal more to complain about! There will be a large number of horses that people cannot afford and a reduced number of livery yards. Not a good outlook for the equine population😒
		
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I don't know, I think this sounds like a good thing


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## sport horse (22 April 2020)

LC2013 said:



			Yes, enforced full livery at a ridiculous cost. We are now not allowed up at all until the horses are out for Sumer which she refuses to do because she "knows best" (AKA profiteering) I can cope with not riding but not seeing him is ridiculous. I'm not 100% trustworthy of the owners as they have not been very cooperative or nice about the situation. A couple have leftalready, I may be next
		
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Perhaps she who 'knows best' knows a little more about grassland management than you do.


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## Gingerwitch (22 April 2020)

sport horse said:



			Perhaps she who 'knows best' knows a little more about grassland management than you do.
		
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Turning out to grass is a problem under normal circumstances, with people saying their is either to much grass, not enough grass, some want hay, some don't, who will fill the waters, who will put the rugs on, rugs off etc.

I am glad that my yard is keeping horses in the in at night routine as we now have a settled rota.


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## Muddywellies (22 April 2020)

Thank goodness my yard doesn't really have any restrictions other than third parties (except farrier and vet) not being allowed on the yard at the moment.   That's it.   YO  is the wrong side if 80 and has medical conditions, but is taking responsibility for herself re coronavirus. I assume when she's been out on the yard she washes her hands as soon as she goes indoors.  The yard is separate from her house, tho once a week we have to pop rent through her letterbox. We are fairly rural, with a low number of CV cases. Saw my farrier today as horse was shod, and he's carrying on as normal, just keeping  a safe distance from people. I think we all just need to take a few extra precautions (as we all are) without going too far.


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## Dave's Mam (22 April 2020)

YorksG said:



			Tbf it is very early for horses to be out at full grass livery, ours are out but we are giving hay daily, as the grass is not through enough yet.
		
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Ours went out the first day of lockdown.


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## Abi90 (23 April 2020)

CMO has said that social restrictions likely to go into next year. Yards will really need to thing about implementing Rotas and DIY yards that have enforced full livery on everyone will really need to think again. As much as I sympathise with their standpoint banning people from their horses for what looks like up to 12 months and more is unfair, especially for those who can’t afford DIY and have it imposed upon them


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## Tiddlypom (23 April 2020)

Agree, Abi90, something will have to give. I have full empathy for those yards that went into full lockdown when national lockdown was announced, but that is not going to be a feasible long term strategy. Yards will have to work out a system whereby owners can still access their horses, or be prepared to close down to liveries.

There will be a big shake up in the equine world during and post Covid19, which IMHO will result in fewer people able to afford to keep horses, and fewer yards available for them to keep them at. Horses are a luxury item.


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## SO1 (23 April 2020)

I agree. I am lucky enough to have access to my yard. We can have 45 minutes a day but we have been asked not to come unless absolutely necessary. Most of us are respecting this & are not going.

I went this week for 1st time since lockdown. It was wonderful to see my pony, be on the yard, see the yard staff. Social distancing was easy, as it was just me & the staff. If I was on a no access yard I would be looking to move now.

Now that I think the restrictions will go on for rest of year I am now going to go once a week. I feel this enables me to see my pony, have a quick ride, but still massively reducing my contact with others. I live on my own & am wfh.

From what I can see reducing your contact with other people by at least 75% is needed to help stop the spread. I used to go to yard 5 times a week so going once has reduced my time there by 80%.

Wfh & no socialising in the pub has reduced my contact with people by 100% in those areas of my life.









Abi90 said:



			CMO has said that social restrictions likely to go into next year. Yards will really need to thing about implementing Rotas and DIY yards that have enforced full livery on everyone will really need to think again. As much as I sympathise with their standpoint banning people from their horses for what looks like up to 12 months and more is unfair, especially for those who can’t afford DIY and have it imposed upon them
		
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## Michen (23 April 2020)

SO1 said:



			I agree. I am lucky enough to have access to my yard. We can have 45 minutes a day but we have been asked not to come unless absolutely necessary. Most of us are respecting this & are not going.

I went this week for 1st time since lockdown. It was wonderful to see my pony, be on the yard, see the yard staff. Social distancing was easy, as it was just me & the staff. If I was on a no access yard I would be looking to move now.

Now that I think the restrictions will go on for rest of year I am now going to go once a week. I feel this enables me to see my pony, have a quick ride, but still massively reducing my contact with others. I live on my own & am wfh.

From what I can see reducing your contact with other people by at least 75% is needed to help stop the spread. I used to go to yard 5 times a week so going once has reduced my time there by 80%.

Wfh & no socialising in the pub has reduced my contact with people by 100% in those areas of my life.
		
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Are you ok with seeing your horse once a week for the rest of the year!?


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## SO1 (23 April 2020)

Of course not. This is not yard enforcement. I could go every day if need be, but I am trying to respect social distancing guidelines. I actually don't need to go as yard is doing all care for him. He is on box rest & controlled walking due to ligament damage. This can be done on horse walker & water treadmill but once he needs to start daily hacking in 4 weeks time then I will need to go to the yard more often. Long term I can't afford to pay the yard to exercise him every day but at the moment it is fine. 



Michen said:



			Are you ok with seeing your horse once a week for the rest of the year!?
		
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## Misty 2020 (8 July 2020)

Until we get a  vaccine  there will be constant  full lockdown and yards will close. Every country is handing into a strict lockdown because the numbers are raising.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (8 July 2020)

I’ve never not been at my yard daily. We are pretty much business as usual but hand washing and social Distancing. Many people will have had it by now and not shown any symptoms, many have had it and gotten over it but the numbers up here are reducing so it’s all just about being smart and responsible.


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## Green Bean (8 July 2020)

I was horrified to find out that 2 people in our yard had it during the lock down and we weren't told anything, we are all restricted on going to the yard and what we can do when there, but the lack of information is ridiculous. I would have thought that there would have needed to be a period of self isolation for those at the yard when these people had been to see their horses


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## Gingerwitch (8 July 2020)

Green Bean said:



			I was horrified to find out that 2 people in our yard had it during the lock down and we weren't told anything, we are all restricted on going to the yard and what we can do when there, but the lack of information is ridiculous. I would have thought that there would have needed to be a period of self isolation for those at the yard when these people had been to see their horses
		
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are you still being restricted  ?


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## SO1 (31 October 2020)

So as we go into the second lockdown I will be waiting to see what access we will get to the yard. Hopefully some as pony needs daily exercise to control weight. In the first lockdown he was on box rest for a suspensory injury and only going on the walker so weight control was less of an issue - grass is what makes him fat he is already on soaked hay.


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## Chianti (31 October 2020)

SO1 said:



			So as we go into the second lockdown I will be waiting to see what access we will get to the yard. Hopefully some as pony needs daily exercise to control weight. In the first lockdown he was on box rest for a suspensory injury and only going on the walker so weight control was less of an issue - grass is what makes him fat he is already on soaked hay.
		
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I feel your pain. I know it's hardly going to make the news headlines but the thought of another four weeks with no contact with my pony is very stressful. Mine is also on a diet again. At the moment I'm weighing out his hay to ensure he only has his ration. I know the yard won't do this.


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## chaps89 (31 October 2020)

I was speaking to a lady who is still at a yard I was on last year. 
They have been under restrictions since the start of first lockdown. 
They got slightly longer timeslots over summer but even before tonight's announcement they were told their time slots would be being reduced from Monday.
I really feel for her.


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## Griffin (31 October 2020)

chaps89 said:



			I was speaking to a lady who is still at a yard I was on last year. 
They have been under restrictions since the start of first lockdown. 
They got slightly longer timeslots over summer but even before tonight's announcement they were told their time slots would be being reduced from Monday.
I really feel for her.
		
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That's awful. In her shoes I would move my horse of able to do so (I know it's not always an option).


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## Sossigpoker (31 October 2020)

Equine_Dream said:



			Our yard has done something similar. The horses have all been turned all out 24/7 and we are not allowed on the yard save in exceptional circumstances (i.e. my lad is still coming off box rest so will need seeing to twice a day for the next week or two).
My anxiety is through the roof about my other horses, but luckily there is a lane and footpath that runs behind our field so at least we can still check on them from there.
It's going to be hard but we will get through this. Fingers crossed we will be able to enjoy some of the summer with our horses
		
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This seems really over the top. 
If it's safe for you to attend to your horse on Weds it will be safe on Thursday. Not allowing anyone even in the fields is just ridiculous. This virus isn't radio active or anything. There's cautious and there's ridiculous.


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## chaps89 (31 October 2020)

Griffin said:



			That's awful. In her shoes I would move my horse of able to do so (I know it's not always an option).
		
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Apparently there has been alot of favouritism been shown in how time slots have been divvied up as well.
I'm certainly glad I'm not there any more, I'm not sure on her plans but I don't think anyone could blame her for going


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## SO1 (31 October 2020)

I am the only one on the yard in the evenings at the moment and I normally ride at 8pm. I am hoping that equine welfare will be a reason to travel  and the yard will let me come and ride - he does need regular exercise for health reasons due to the risk of getting obese and also he needs to be kept strong and fit as he had a suspensory injury earlier this year.

I can pay someone to come and ride him but that person does not work at the yard every day. 

In my case riding is not just for fun and there are some days when the weather is lousy that it not much fun but I have to get on and do it for welfare reasons.


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## fredflop (31 October 2020)

chaps89 said:



			Apparently there has been alot of favouritism been shown in how time slots have been divvied up as well.
I'm certainly glad I'm not there any more, I'm not sure on her plans but I don't think anyone could blame her for going
		
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in the last lockdown there was “reverse snobbery” at my yard. YO had said riding was permitted, with some rules in place. Obviously diy had to turn up every day to look after their horses. Some of the diy’ers read this that only people on diy were entitled to ride their horse and anyone on full livery was banned from the yard


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## hopscotch bandit (1 November 2020)

chaps89 said:



			Apparently there has been alot of favouritism been shown in how time slots have been divvied up as well.
I'm certainly glad I'm not there any more, I'm not sure on her plans but I don't think anyone could blame her for going
		
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We've been told we have to have timeslots of an hour. But try to avoid between 4-7pm. Well anyone who lives in the real world tends to work full time and that's the time they get there after work. So it can't be helped. I feel moreworried about lockdown than I do of getting corona virus. I will be continuing to travel to work as my work is classed as essential thank goodness. I just hope they don't decide to shut work as my job is not transferrable to home.


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## HashRouge (1 November 2020)

Sossigpoker said:



			This seems really over the top.
If it's safe for you to attend to your horse on Weds it will be safe on Thursday. Not allowing anyone even in the fields is just ridiculous. This virus isn't radio active or anything. There's cautious and there's ridiculous.
		
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I think it's absolutely bonkers and a massive over-reaction by the yard.


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## Goldenstar (1 November 2020)

For those of you on DIY I think yard owners will be much more likely to get a system going that allows you to provide care for you own horses.
It’s winter this time a lot more work .
I sympathise with you all it must be awful to contemplate people not used to providing care for a whole yard taking it on at this time of year .


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## JennBags (1 November 2020)

Sossigpoker said:



			This seems really over the top.
If it's safe for you to attend to your horse on Weds it will be safe on Thursday. Not allowing anyone even in the fields is just ridiculous. This virus isn't radio active or anything. There's cautious and there's ridiculous.
		
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It's not about it not being safe, it's about STOPPING the virus spreading.  Apart from the fact that the person you quoted first posted back at the beginning of the first lockdown and not now 🙄


HashRouge said:



			I think it's absolutely bonkers and a massive over-reaction by the yard.
		
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Each yard has to assess their own covid risks, if they don't do a proper risk assessment they won't be insured.


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## MrsMozart (1 November 2020)

Still allowed to care for horses. 

And riding is being counted as exercise, so long as you don't do anything that would require NHS services. No competing. No travelling except for vet treatment. 

That's my understanding from reading the rules yesterday.


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## Keith_Beef (1 November 2020)

MrsMozart said:



			Still allowed to care for horses.

And riding is being counted as exercise, so long as you don't do anything that would require NHS services. No competing. No travelling except for vet treatment.

That's my understanding from reading the rules yesterday.
		
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Where are these rules? I'd like to read them and compare them with the rules we'll have to follow.


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## MrsMozart (1 November 2020)

Keith_Beef said:



			Where are these rules? I'd like to read them and compare them with the rules we'll have to follow.
		
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On the .Gov site. I'll hunt them out later.


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## SO1 (1 November 2020)

Now mask wearing is accepted as a way of reducing risks and most people are used to wearing them perhaps asking liveries to wear masks when not riding may allow people to be able tend to their horses. 

Giving those in high risk categories time slots so they can have a time at the yard when no-one else is there to reduce the risk.


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## CanteringCarrot (1 November 2020)

SO1 said:



			Now mask wearing is accepted as a way of reducing risks and most people are used to wearing them perhaps asking liveries to wear masks when not riding may allow people to be able tend to their horses.

Giving those in high risk categories time slots so they can have a time at the yard when no-one else is there to reduce the risk.
		
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We've been wearing masks for a week or two now at the yard. You can remove them while riding, but otherwise wear them. Only 2 people in the tack room at once, a limit to number of riders in the indoor school, and just try to do everything outside as much as possible (grooming, riding, cleaning tack, etc.).

A livery did ask when the least busiest time would be as she is a nurse and would prefer to avoid as many interactions outside of work as possible. YO told her when less busy times are, and it worked out. 

All of these measures are doable. Sometimes it gets a bit busy, but we've been managing.


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## NinjaPony (1 November 2020)

This time round I’m totally DIY on a working sheep farm so will be carrying on as usual. My lot are next to each other and all my stuff is in my own spare stable so no need to interact with anyone else or their horses!


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## Goldenstar (1 November 2020)

Are those of you in yards with indoor schools going to be able to use them ?


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## Cinnamontoast (1 November 2020)

We haven’t yet been given slots. I’m waiting to see what happens. We’re likely to hear last minute.


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## Equine_Dream (1 November 2020)

Sossigpoker said:



			This seems really over the top.
If it's safe for you to attend to your horse on Weds it will be safe on Thursday. Not allowing anyone even in the fields is just ridiculous. This virus isn't radio active or anything. There's cautious and there's ridiculous.
		
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By way of an update, unsurprisingly this idea didn't last long. YO relented and agreed we could attend the yard once daily to check horses, and we each had a specific 1 hour timeslot. We were not allowed to ride which I found very difficult as I suffer with mental health issues which were already escalated by the lockdown. Not being able to ride was the icing on the cake, but unfortunately YO followed bhs guidelines to the letter. 
We are in Wales and currently mid way through the firebreak lockdown, and thankfully YO has relaxed a great deal since the first lockdown. I went for a lovely hack yesterday and horses were already coming in at night so we've continued to attend the 2x daily to see to them, but sticking to social distancing and sanitising hands regularly.


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## cindars (1 November 2020)

Only two on our yard.  Owner lives there as does her elderly mum.  Three ponies have lived out all summer and still are. I usually go up once a day check them over do water and poo pick.  Don't even see owner. Other livery has elderly parents and a grandchild she looks after.  It worked first time round and it's my daily exercise bike there and back.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (1 November 2020)

Our yard life was only restricted to no riding for three/four weeks at the beginning then it was relaxed. Most folk are only up to attend to their horses. I just go up, see to my boy, ride if I’m riding and go home, I don’t socialise much and our guys are at a dead end annex of the barn and we have our own door so once at the stables I don’t have to go near anyone.

There are 28 horses in the yard so we are used to having to stagger riding times etc and in the winter many don’t ride during the week just the weekends so is that do ride can do outdoors no bother


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## sarahann1 (1 November 2020)

I ended up moving yards in the end, I couldn’t risk not being able to see my horse for weeks on end again.

The yard I moved to had time slots, we’ve been told we won’t go back to them, we’ve just been asked to be extra careful.


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## ecb89 (1 November 2020)

My full livery yard are currently waiting to see what the BHS say.


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## greenbean10 (1 November 2020)

My full livery yard is continuing with business as usual but we are all generally very careful and ride at separate times anyway.

Possibly an unpopular opinion but I think it's absolutely bonkers that people were being told not to ride by their yard owners and pretty disgraceful of the BHS to encourage it.


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## Griffin (1 November 2020)

greenbean10 said:



			My full livery yard is continuing with business as usual but we are all generally very careful and ride at separate times anyway.

Possibly an unpopular opinion but I think it's absolutely bonkers that people were being told not to ride by their yard owners and pretty disgraceful of the BHS to encourage it.
		
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I totally agree with you.  In my job, I am in contact with up to a hundred students a day with no social distancing, I am fairly certain this is a lot more hazardous to my health (and therefore more problematic for the NHS) than doing flatwork for twenty minutes in an outdoor school.

I think it is fairly easy to reduce the risks at a livery yard e.g. asking people not to share tools, sanitising surfaces, handwashing areas, encouraging the wearing of masks in communal areas. 

I think that for many owners, seeing their horse is a bit of normality and very important for their mental health. Plus, I know that if I suddenly stopped seeing my mare for weeks on end, she would miss me nearly as much as I would miss her.


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## Sossigpoker (1 November 2020)

Equine_Dream said:



			By way of an update, unsurprisingly this idea didn't last long. YO relented and agreed we could attend the yard once daily to check horses, and we each had a specific 1 hour timeslot. We were not allowed to ride which I found very difficult as I suffer with mental health issues which were already escalated by the lockdown. Not being able to ride was the icing on the cake, but unfortunately YO followed bhs guidelines to the letter.
We are in Wales and currently mid way through the firebreak lockdown, and thankfully YO has relaxed a great deal since the first lockdown. I went for a lovely hack yesterday and horses were already coming in at night so we've continued to attend the 2x daily to see to them, but sticking to social distancing and sanitising hands regularly.
		
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I don't see how it's up to the yard owner to tell you if you can ride your horse or not?
I would be moving most likely. There is being sensible and careful and there's being over the top. Mind you, my yard only has a couple of liveries so not very busy at best of times.


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## Equine_Dream (1 November 2020)

Sossigpoker said:



			I don't see how it's up to the yard owner to tell you if you can ride your horse or not?
I would be moving most likely. There is being sensible and careful and there's being over the top. Mind you, my yard only has a couple of liveries so not very busy at best of times.
		
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It was extremely difficult as usually the yard is lovely and my horses are also very happy and settled. But if being told when I may or may not ride my own horses had continued,  then I was prepared to look at moving them to a different yard. Luckily things are much better now.


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## SO1 (1 November 2020)

We have been told business as usual this time round. Make sure wash hands and don't linger. She said horse need exercise and people need to come for their mental health. It is quite a small yard and most liveries wfh now and not been having parties socialising.


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## Shysmum (1 November 2020)

I'm very lucky to have my own land and stables here in France. I appreciate how very lucky I am, I have mental health problems which is why we moved here in the first place. My ponies are my routine, and mean the world to me, even if we are not allowed to ride during lockdown.

The change of routine must for many owners have a devastating effect. It would for me.


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## Fred66 (1 November 2020)

Sossigpoker said:



			I don't see how it's up to the yard owner to tell you if you can ride your horse or not?
I would be moving most likely. There is being sensible and careful and there's being over the top. Mind you, my yard only has a couple of liveries so not very busy at best of times.
		
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The yard owners that closed yards in the first shutdown did so based upon the guidance at the time. To blame them for doing what was at the time legally required of them seems to be rather unfair.


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## Equine_Dream (1 November 2020)

Fred66 said:



			The yard owners that closed yards in the first shutdown did so based upon the guidance at the time. To blame them for doing what was at the time legally required of them seems to be rather unfair.
		
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Buuuuut the government never actually said we couldn't ride. The BHS issued guidance but there was no legal requirement for it to be followed. 

In fairness I think a lot of people panicked at first. After all this was unprecedented, and happened very quickly. No one really knew what to do so acted in whatever way they thought best. 

I don't think the same panicked approach will happen this time. It certainly hasn't here in Wales (where we can happily ride our horses but under no circumstances are you allowed to purchase a pair of knickers 😂🤷‍♀️).


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## hopscotch bandit (1 November 2020)

Shysmum said:



			I'm very lucky to have my own land and stables here in France. I appreciate how very lucky I am, I have mental health problems which is why we moved here in the first place. My ponies are my routine, and mean the world to me, even if we are not allowed to ride during lockdown.

The change of routine must for many owners have a devastating effect. It would for me.
		
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My partner and I have both said as a result of lockdown and how stressful it waa the first time around we will be thinking about moving one day to a place with three or four acres so we can do our own thing. We'd thought about it before Corona virus, but now its definetley on.our radar for the future.

Having an hour timeslot was horrendous as my horse was rehabbed at the time which took up 10m of my precious hour but was essential for the eventual terrific outcome. The whole thing  was made worse by the fact that although i followed the rules that were in place on the yard to the book others did not which caused by terrible frustration and huge upset as others were permitted to drag their hour out to two or three hours. The unfairness of it all had a lasting impact on my mental health so I am dreading it again and feel as long as people socially distance and use a mask away from their stable this shoud work.


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## bouncing_ball (1 November 2020)

Goldenstar said:



			Are those of you in yards with indoor schools going to be able to use them ?
		
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I think government re classified indoor schools as outdoor spaces a few months ago, so if can ride in an outdoor arena an indoor will be ok


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## Dave's Mam (1 November 2020)

So far, my yard have said as long as we wear masks in public enclosed areas & maintain social distancing, we can continue as normal.  Hopefully this will carry on & we don't end up with time slots & no riding like last time.


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## Bernster (2 November 2020)

From previous threads, how yard managers responded seemed to cause a lot of unhappiness amongst liveries.  Hopefully people will feel a bit clearer now about what to do.

We managed to move yards at the weekend. Last one took a very strict approach. I think this one will be less strict.  That wasn’t why we moved but I think it will mean I can see and ride my horses more this time, but with some restrictions which is fair enough.


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## DawnS (15 December 2020)

deleted


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## shamrock2021 (30 December 2020)

Ireland is going back into lockdown strict level 5 it going to be announced in a few minutes.

full livery can have it pros and cons unfortunately the reality is if you choose to be on  full livery. If the yard owner  don’t want you there . There is nothing you can do unfortunately since your not horse career. It heartbreaking but is the reality.

nobody should be shaming DlY people they are entitled to see there horses because they are the horse career.


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## sherry90 (30 December 2020)

lex the raindeer said:



			Ireland is going back into lockdown strict level 5 it going to be announced in a few minutes.

full livery can have it pros and cons unfortunately the reality is if you choose to be on  full livery. If the yard owner  don’t want you there . There is nothing you can do unfortunately since your not horse career. It heartbreaking but is the reality.

nobody should be shaming DlY people they are entitled to see there horses because they are the horse career.
		
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I am full livery - I am the person who exercises my horse so regardless, for welfare reasons, I have always been able to exercise my horse.


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## charterline (30 December 2020)

lex the raindeer said:



			Ireland is going back into lockdown strict level 5 it going to be announced in a few minutes.

full livery can have it pros and cons unfortunately the reality is if you choose to be on  full livery. If the yard owner  don’t want you there . There is nothing you can do unfortunately since your not horse career. It heartbreaking but is the reality.

nobody should be shaming DlY people they are entitled to see there horses because they are the horse career.
		
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On the flip side DIY’ers shouldn’t shame people on full livery...


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## Tihamandturkey (30 December 2020)

lex the raindeer said:



			Ireland is going back into lockdown strict level 5 it going to be announced in a few minutes.

full livery can have it pros and cons unfortunately the reality is if you choose to be on  full livery. If the yard owner  don’t want you there . There is nothing you can do unfortunately since your not horse career. It heartbreaking but is the reality.

nobody should be shaming DlY people they are entitled to see there horses because they are the horse career.
		
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I don't understand the point of this post tbh 😕


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## leflynn (11 January 2021)

Curious to know if anyone has been lockdown off their livery yards this time round?  New current yard we haven't, old yard they are now restricted to 2 visits a week with time slots


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## Irishcob6 (11 January 2021)

leflynn said:



			Curious to know if anyone has been lockdown off their livery yards this time round?  New current yard we haven't, old yard they are now restricted to 2 visits a week with time slots
		
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We are allowed down thankfully, unlike last time. Only due to the fact that the BHS guidance this time stated yards can remain open - don’t think the BHS wanted to cause world war three again with unnecessary restrictions!!


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## Bernster (11 January 2021)

Yards around me in Herts are open apparently - some on time slots and restrictions, some not allowing outside trainers, but liveries still attending from what I know (via trainers and friends).


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## chaps89 (11 January 2021)

No restrictions on our yard, share horse yard is back to a Rota, maximum 5 slots a week of either 2 hours or an hour and a half (can't quite remember which) To be fair, it's a large yard, primarily part/full livery so they get busy periods where there is just too many people on the yard really.


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## wiglet (11 January 2021)

My yard (full livery) locked down completely last time. When restrictions eased we moved to time slots. This time, the yard has remained open with no time restrictions for liveries. YO has just asked that everyone remains socially distanced, no admittance to feed room or canteen, one person in tackroom at any one time. Masks to be worn at all times unless riding and hands to be sanitised before entering the yard and if you touch any brushes or stuff the staff may handle - there are hand sanitising stations dotted around the yard. It's working well atm.


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## leflynn (11 January 2021)

Irishcob6 said:



			We are allowed down thankfully, unlike last time. Only due to the fact that the BHS guidance this time stated yards can remain open - don’t think the BHS wanted to cause world war three again with unnecessary restrictions!!
		
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I thought it was odd they had restricted them so much esp when the guidance didnt really suggest they needed to, be interesting to see if any others have restricted as harshly

we hand sanitise before we come to the yard, don't hang around and we all communicate so no more than 2 in the arena or hacking out together


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## ecb89 (11 January 2021)

I’m on a full livery yard. We were locked down last time. This time we are on time slots, 1 and half hours, 4 times a week. They tried to do 1 hour but it was not long enough.
Time slots have been introduced to protect staff. However, time slots are still being used once staff have left for the night, which I don’t understand. 
We have also been told only vets and farriers allowed on the yard. No saddlers, back people etc


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## SO1 (11 January 2021)

We have all been asked to spend less time on the yard. No time limits but they might be introduced if people don't obey. But everyone is very compliant. I have reduced my visits from 4 to 3 times a week. Pre covid I was 5 times a week then reduced to 4 now down to 3 to do.my bit. Our yard can provide exercise ridden and on the walker. We were not shut the first time but most people did not visit during the first month of lockdown as it is mainly a part livery yard. This time whilst reducing our visits everyone is still coming. I expect as we know the restrictions are likely to continue for 3 months which is a long time to not go to the yard for.

I expect many yards will not want the joy of extra work in the winter which might arise from liveries not coming on to the yard for 6 weeks so perhaps less likely to shut this time.


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## hopscotch bandit (14 January 2021)

We are one hour timeslots for all liveries regardless of diy, full etc. Feel sorry for yard owner as she is under pressure to do things right.

We can ride or mess around outside grooming, leading, doing paddocks, etc which is classed as 'free time.

Masks, wash hands when arrive, santitise gel, socially distance.

An hour and a half or even a quarter would be better especially for those that can't ride. But just grateful i can see my horse.

I struggle as I have always suffered from anxiety and depression but really feel it now.

I feel a bit better this week. I respect others who may be vulnerable but it is sometimes hard to remember to put your mask on when you come in from outside. Its not like being at the supermarket for example lol.


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