# Horse rearing at dentist and vet



## Sarahpop6 (8 March 2018)

Anyone recommend a control head collar or some advise on how to stop a horse rearing when vet or dentist try to do anything. She is new to me but she hasnt been bothered by anything else. She doesnt seem frightened more stroppy. I dont want to resort to sedation to get her teeth done, especially as she also reared when the vet went near her! Any help greatly appreciated, have had horses for 20 years but never dealt with rearing before


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## Sandstone1 (8 March 2018)

I think most vets now sedate almost as routine for health and safety reasons.    I would maybe try clicker training.   I would not think a control headcollar would help in these circumstances.


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## Auslander (8 March 2018)

Why would you not sedate? It's not fair on your vet/dentist to put them at risk, and it's not nice for the horse to be put through a stressful ordeal that could be avoided with a bit of sedation.


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## Sparemare (8 March 2018)

My vet always sedates for teeth.  Why wouldn&#8217;t you?


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## Sarahpop6 (8 March 2018)

Theres so much contradicting advice around I dont know what to do for the best.


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## milliepops (8 March 2018)

Auslander said:



			Why would you not sedate? It's not fair on your vet/dentist to put them at risk, and it's not nice for the horse to be put through a stressful ordeal that could be avoided with a bit of sedation.
		
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^^ this

Safer for everyone


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## HashRouge (8 March 2018)

Definitely sedate for teeth unless the horse is super chilled (which yours isn't!).


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## Auslander (8 March 2018)

Sarahpop6 said:



			There&#8217;s so much contradicting advice around I don&#8217;t know what to do for the best.
		
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No conflicting advice on here!Everyone seems to be of the same opinion.

I'm a bit anti horses being unsedated for the dentist, after being smacked in the face by a horse wearing a Hausman gag. I have problems with my teeth and my jaw which have been ongoing for quite a long time! Simply not worth people getting hurt.


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## DabDab (8 March 2018)

Yep, definitely just sedate for teeth. My gelding used to have teeth done unsedated by an edt and is very good, but even him I have sedated now as his teeth are now done by the vet and she is little whereas horse is tall, so much easier for her to reach if he is a bit dopey with his head on the floor

For general vet examination then you could pick up a leg to try to prevent her flying around


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## ester (8 March 2018)

Agree with the others re. sedation, it's no biggy if it keeps everyone safe. If your horse is rearing at the vet I'd suggest you a do some training with her to be use to syringes etc.


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## LR2904 (10 March 2018)

My mare always needed sedated for dental treatment by vet but when I changed and used a highly recommended Equine dentist he was much more understanding and took his time with her, no longer scared or needs sedated.


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## Griffin (11 March 2018)

LR2904 said:



			My mare always needed sedated for dental treatment by vet but when I changed and used a highly recommended Equine dentist he was much more understanding and took his time with her, no longer scared or needs sedated.
		
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This. I have a very nervous mare and I have found that more understanding vets and dentists can work with her without sedation. Some things, she will always need sedating for (like clipping) but we are now able to have routine work done without.


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## Red-1 (11 March 2018)

I rarely sedate, having a great EDT who takes time and actually does some training as routine before starting to work on the teeth. 

Even when Jay had X rays, scans, PRP and shock wave therapy he was not sedated. It did take a few minutes longer to explain the situation to him, but I was prepared to pay for the vet's time to do so. 

The only place we almost fell out was when I decided, stupidly, to have his teeth done while we were there, as he was now retired. They wanted him to walk into some stocks, and it was a 90 degree angle down a slope to get in there. He was understandably cautious as he thought the gap was too small. There was a wider way in, but another horse was being treated in that space. 

The obvious thing for me was to wait until the access was clear. Or, do him not in stocks, as he normally stands just fine for his teeth. What I was not expecting was for people to start to chase him from behind - funnily enough chasing him did not make him more comfortable at going down the slope round a bend and into a space he perceived as too small. Their next 'trick' was to throw a jacket over his head?????

It only took a few minutes for everyone to stop what they were doing, take the pressure off and let me explain the situation for him. We did then move the other horse, place him in the stocks as they wished and do his teeth.

I suspect we all took more time because I said I would pay for the extra exam time to take it slowly. 

BUT - on another occasion Jay had been rested, box with in hand walking only, and he was that time too fractious for further shockwave so I did sedate for everyone's benefit. I do agree though that there seems to be an automatic assumption for sedation that I don't like.

I would not say that it is harmless: they feel rubbish; they sweat and it takes a few hours to stop being groggy.


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## hobo (11 March 2018)

I always sedate for teeth it means a proper safe job can be done. Horse never suffers any side affects and is soon ready to go back out in the field. I always ask for a jab for the horse and a jab for me but he always refuses but as horse is so chilled I get away without needed the sedation myself!!!


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## SEL (11 March 2018)

I'm another who sedates. We tried my mare without and I couldn't fault the EDT  for her patience but this horse will come at you when scared and it was too dangerous. I called it off and it took all of 15 mins to finish her teeth under sedation.

I had my quiet one done at the same time. He's never been a bother but seeing how quickly and easily his teeth were sorted with just a small amount of sedation I'm planning on the same next year. 

I got whacked on the side of the head by the metal gag with my old horse. Luckily I had a woolly hat on at the time because that took the brunt of it. Nice bruise.


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## coss (11 March 2018)

I've not had any of mine sedated for teeth and actually it would be more stress and hassle to get the sedation done than just having my EDT do it. She's always taken her time and gives the horse a break if she's had a tricky bit to do. Gains their trust, lets them walk if they want and although they may not think it's a wonderful experience it's less dangerous than trying to get one of them sedated. It would have to be domosedan gel and my horse reacts funny to it anyway. He absolutely hates the vets and knows if they are going to inject and turns into a raging bull.


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## YorksG (11 March 2018)

The two older girls always had their teeth done without sedation, both stood well and didn't swing about with their heads. The younger pair will need sedation and so will have some, the Cob is likely to only need sedalin or ots equivalent, the Appy may well need something stronger. The Appy will likely go up, as that is her default, it really is horses for courses.


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## Tiddlypom (11 March 2018)

Sedation isn't a trivial procedure - one of several side effects is a slowing of gut function which can lead to colic. I'd always rather that a routine procedure like dental floating was carried out without it as long as the horse is well behaved

However, the OP's horse sounds like one which needs sedation to protect itself and its handlers.


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## ester (11 March 2018)

Frank has a note in his passport that he is allergic to sedivet, we have decided he probably isn't he is just very susceptible to sedation and usually has no more than a quarter dose if we need to sedate him for anything. He hasn't been routinely sedated for teeth over the last 13 years because I have found the right people to do him as he is a bit tricky but not dangerous. 
So I maintain that if it is done for the safety of people because of the behaviour of the horse (as in this case) it shouldn't be considered a big deal.


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## Cortez (11 March 2018)

Gosh, I'm surprised at the numbers who sedate as  "routine" - even my terrified cruelty case rescue is fine for vet and EDT if taken gently. I can't remember the last time we had to use sedation, and I'd be very careful as the drugs are not without side effects.


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## JanetGeorge (11 March 2018)

Sparemare said:



			My vet always sedates for teeth.  Why wouldnt you?
		
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Because it adds at LEAST £20 to the cost of routine treatment!  Vets are generally useless at teeth - and a good EDT rarely needs it.  I had one looked at a horse the other day who'd been "done" EIGHT times in a year - always under sedation and they STILL left her needing a tooth removed, treatment for diastema - and she's STILL not right.  She was always sedated.  EDT just talked to her, popped the gag on, showed me all the problems still there - she was fine!


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## tristar (11 March 2018)

i`ve had some dentists who are so good with horses, no  sedation needed, and at the mo we have two done by a vet who is also a dentist, he always sedates, the one is impossible without sedation,and the other ok, i leave it up to him, but its so routine maintenance that its  soon over and done with because he has resolved all any issues on previous visits,

our stallion has our edt, who spends an hour with him, mainly talking to the horse and me, no sedation, no issues just routine maintenance, he just takes his time and talks....a lot.

i`m happy to go with either, however even the best edts we had would not do the impossible one, they have the sense to recognize a horse that needs actually needs sedation, its easier for the horse and i would not wish anyone to be foolish enough to try and do her teeth, and i believe it would have only made her worse and put everyone at risk, as it is she has a lovely comfortable mouth and everyone is safe.

for me its not a big issue, i`ve had loads done with sedation and loads done with what matters is that they done


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## madlady (12 March 2018)

I have one who has to be sedated for dental work and he is now done by the vet as he managed to fling the edt around even after a tube of sedalin, the other 2 are absolutely fine although one did need slight sedation when she needed scans at leahurst when she buggered her tendon as she got a bit uptight going into a strange scary building.

I would sedate rather than risk injury.


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## Pinkvboots (12 March 2018)

I use an equine dentist and I just give them a bit of sedalin as they are both fine really, but if you have a horse that just wont stand quietly it is safer to sedate them, I find most vets when they do teeth want to sedate anyway as they don't have the time to take there time and just want it done and there is always the safety issue, most equine dentists tend to be more patient and give the horse more breaks and although it takes longer I think over time most horses do learn to accept having there teeth done.


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## milliepops (12 March 2018)

ester said:



			Frank has a note in his passport that he is allergic to sedivet, we have decided he probably isn't he is just very susceptible to sedation and usually has no more than a quarter dose if we need to sedate him for anything. He hasn't been routinely sedated for teeth over the last 13 years because I have found the right people to do him as he is a bit tricky but not dangerous. 
So I maintain that if it is done for the safety of people because of the behaviour of the horse (as in this case) it shouldn't be considered a big deal.
		
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Interesting, it was sedivet that Millie had a horrible reaction to - pulse weak and thready, breathing super fast, sweaty, it was awful and I thought she was going to drop dead in front of me.  She's the same as F to have her teeth done  - tricky but not dangerous, so we wedge her in a corner and get it done as best as possible.  She's a lot better with power tools, the hand tools wind her up


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## hopscotch bandit (12 March 2018)

Auslander said:



			Why would you not sedate? It's not fair on your vet/dentist to put them at risk, and it's not nice for the horse to be put through a stressful ordeal that could be avoided with a bit of sedation.
		
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My dentist won't even let owners hold their horses heads.  He takes the rope out of your hands and lays it across the mane.  He finds it harder to deal with a horse who is being held than one that is free to move its head. I wouldn't dream of using sedation to make my horse accept the dentist anymore than I would use sedation for a vet or farrier visit. Its something your horse has got to learn to accept as part of its routine.


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## PapaverFollis (12 March 2018)

Well use of sedation and a good vet to do teeth has taken Granny from a dangerous mess with a gag in to a calm patient who only needs a tiny bit of sedation.

The old boy was more scared of needles than dentistry though so he was done without sedation.  Which was fine as long as my OH (his human) was there.  when me and the vet tried to do him without OH there he bolted out the stable and disappeared up the yard. :lol:  Ooops.  We weren't expecting it cos he was the model of good behaviour when OH was there.

Goodness knows what we're going to do with The Beast.  She has decided she doesn't like needles (which reminds me I must get back to working on that issue, we had made progress but ugh winter and so many other things to faff with) so it might be that we try without and see how she goes. 

I think its a case by case basis for me bit have nothing against sedation if needed.  If my horse was being aggressive or flighty with a gag in it's face it would be sedated - that's a big heavy weight to be being flung about.


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## LaurenBay (12 March 2018)

Cortez said:



			Gosh, I'm surprised at the numbers who sedate as  "routine" - even my terrified cruelty case rescue is fine for vet and EDT if taken gently. I can't remember the last time we had to use sedation, and I'd be very careful as the drugs are not without side effects.
		
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This...

With a good EDT, they would be able to do most Horses without sedation.

I wouldn't sedate unless I really had too. I understand if a Horse is really tricky, thats fine. But just to sedate a well behaved Horse as its part of the routine is mad!


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## ester (12 March 2018)

milliepops said:



			Interesting, it was sedivet that Millie had a horrible reaction to - pulse weak and thready, breathing super fast, sweaty, it was awful and I thought she was going to drop dead in front of me.  She's the same as F to have her teeth done  - tricky but not dangerous, so we wedge her in a corner and get it done as best as possible.  She's a lot better with power tools, the hand tools wind her up 

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It was put in by previous owners, we've not used it agan but current vet said that he didn't think the others we've used since are different enough if it were an allergy. He is not the only very susceptible welshie that they have on their books.
Yes we pin him in the corner, size of EDT probably helps  previous one very tall, current one quite wide and I suspect he would have been better with power tools, he's had them three times now and seems to have more patience with them. Obviously generally he is not a difficult pony to handle, but generally suspicious of medic stuff and I know before us they always sedated him for teeth. The one who is a tit to clip and worm, has always been fine!


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## HashRouge (12 March 2018)

Regardless of whether people agree with routine sedation for the dentist, the horse the OP describes is dangerous, so if it needs its teeth doing sedation is the only way to go! My two were done a few months ago by a vet nurse who is also a specialist EDT. The vet came out too to take heart rates and okay sedation in case it was needed (cost no extra as it was a zone day). The gelding was done without sedation but the mare was given a mild dose. In fact, the dentist said she had given her the same amount as a Shetland pony (14.2hh Arab). She said normally when people say that they're exaggerating, but she really wasn't for my mare! The mare was sedated as she had quite bad diastema and was sore, so the dentist felt it would make things easier all round. No point upsetting her or making her more uncomfortable than necessary. I would personally have been fine for her to sedate the gelding too if she had felt it best, even though he was okay without. Certainly would have sedated if we'd had to "pin him in the corner"!


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## HashRouge (12 March 2018)

JanetGeorge said:



			Because it adds at LEAST £20 to the cost of routine treatment!  Vets are generally useless at teeth - and a good EDT rarely needs it.  I had one looked at a horse the other day who'd been "done" EIGHT times in a year - always under sedation and they STILL left her needing a tooth removed, treatment for diastema - and she's STILL not right.  She was always sedated.  EDT just talked to her, popped the gag on, showed me all the problems still there - she was fine!
		
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In fairness, you can't get exactly get rid of diastema so it's always going to be an ongoing issue.


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## ester (12 March 2018)

pinning in the corner in our case isn't a multiple person job fwiw, just the dentist and it just stops them fidgeting backwards round the stable . Frank usually makes one cob effort to come forwards and if corrected/not able to doesn't bother again and over 13 years we've just worked out what works best for him in these situs. Three EDTs have been very happy his behaviour is not excessive or dangerous. The OPs horse sounds like it is.


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## Auslander (12 March 2018)

hopscotch bandit said:



			I wouldn't dream of using sedation to make my horse accept the dentist anymore than I would use sedation for a vet or farrier visit. Its something your horse has got to learn to accept as part of its routine.
		
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Just for the record, my horse isn't sedated for the dentist. I was speaking specifically about the OP's horse, who sounds like it may do someone an injury due to its current behaviour. 

Please don't judge people who have horses sedated for procedures that most would think are routine. There are many very valid reasons why certain horses need sedation, and until you've experienced a horse that poses a danger to vet/farrier/dentist/itself, you won't understand. For instance,my horse has issues with both hindlegs, and it is safer for everyone if he has a light dose of sedation to shoe/trim his hinds. I "could" make him stand unsedated to be done, but it would be stressful and uncomfortable for him, risky for my farrier, and not possible to take the time to do his feet properly.


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## SEL (12 March 2018)

This ^^^^ Yup. Given it pushes the costs up I wouldn't sedate if it wasn't safer for all concerned, but it is.


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## hopscotch bandit (13 March 2018)

Auslander said:



			Please don't judge people who have horses sedated for procedures that most would think are routine. .
		
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Err I wasn't judging anyone.  I just said I wouldn't dream of having my horse sedated for anything. In some situations where a horse is rearing and is a danger to others then that it would be preferable to use sedation but not before other methods of restraint or training have been attempted. But some people just sedate as routine without discovering the reason why a horse is reacting like it is or attempting to teach the horse that rearing or kicking or general bad manners is clearly not acceptable when it needs treatment.Most horses with patience, time and firm but fair handling will and should become accustomed to the dentist/farrier/vet but of course there are exceptions to the rule. Its not different to anything else that you encounter with your horse.

An example - horse starts weaving or windsucking. Remedy; put an anti weave grill on the door or a cribbing collar on it. *OR* keep the horse busier with more turnout, more forage, stable toys, a radio, and try to find out the reason why its bored and carrying out these vices.  Probably not the best example, but you get my drift.


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## milliepops (13 March 2018)

hopscotch bandit said:



			Err I wasn't judging anyone.  I just said I wouldn't dream of having my horse sedated for anything. In some situations where a horse is rearing and is a danger to others then that it would be preferable to use sedation but not before other methods of restraint or training have been attempted. But some people just sedate as routine without discovering the reason why a horse is reacting like it is or attempting to teach the horse that rearing or kicking or general bad manners is clearly not acceptable when it needs treatment.Most horses with patience, time and firm but fair handling will and should become accustomed to the dentist/farrier/vet but of course there are exceptions to the rule. Its not different to anything else that you encounter with your horse.

An example - horse starts weaving or windsucking. Remedy; put an anti weave grill on the door or a cribbing collar on it. *OR* keep the horse busier with more turnout, more forage, stable toys, a radio, and try to find out the reason why its bored and carrying out these vices.  Probably not the best example, but you get my drift.
		
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but the opportunities to train the horse to accept the dentist are so much less frequent, it's a bit nuts to suggest you get the dentist out every day to teach the horse to put the gag on, open its mouth, stand quietly with its mouth wide open which can't be that comfortable, hold its head at an awkward angle, accept the tools etc... until it will do so happily. The reality is that few people would have the kit to do this themselves...  

Teaching it to pick feet up for farrier, say, is possible for the average owner - we've all got hoof picks that we can tap the hoof with etc so it's a re-creatable situation to put the horse in daily until it learns how to cope.


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## milliepops (13 March 2018)

ester said:



			pinning in the corner in our case isn't a multiple person job fwiw, just the dentist and it just stops them fidgeting backwards round the stable . Frank usually makes one cob effort to come forwards and if corrected/not able to doesn't bother again and over 13 years we've just worked out what works best for him in these situs. Three EDTs have been very happy his behaviour is not excessive or dangerous. The OPs horse sounds like it is.
		
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Lol at one cob effort! That's Millie in a nutshell... "i don't want you to do this....<barge>" 

Kira doesn't give up barging, and without sedation she would be the one on her back legs. She only needs the dose for a doormouse though.


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## minesadouble (13 March 2018)

We used to use an extremely popular, highly recommended EDT who apparently trained and qualified in a non EU country. None of our horses needed sedating, he was so calm and patient with them! We then had a horse with an issue and called a BAEDT listed dentist and learnt a good few truths the hard way. The previous EDT had done so little actual work that it was no wonder the horses were so chilled - they basically had nothing to object to as the dentist was doing so little and left a horse with horrendously sharp teeth and a shockingly ulcerated mouth!!
Please only use a BAEDT listed dentist for your horses sake. I cant emphasise enough how popular and well thought of our original EDT is - I see people recommending him all the time and I just cringe!!

Its rubbish to say a horse shouldnt need sedating for dental work. Some of ours do require sedation and some dont. One of ours requires sedation as he has such a small tight mouth the gag is very uncomfortable for him. It would be tantamount to cruelty to try to treat such a horse without sedation.


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## hopscotch bandit (14 March 2018)

milliepops said:



			it's a bit nuts to suggest you get the dentist out every day to teach the horse to put the gag on, open its mouth, stand quietly with its mouth wide open which can't be that comfortable, hold its head at an awkward angle, accept the tools etc... until it will do so happily. The reality is that few people would have the kit to do this themselves...  

.
		
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SERIOIUSLY stop misquoting me guys!!! I didn't suggest you get the dentist out every day!  Blimey. you should work for the Daily Mail. 

Seriously, you just have to put some work into desensiting them.  If they have a problem with the dentist surely you would work on holding their heads, opening their mouths, holding their tongues (as you would when you wormed them - or is it just me that does this?) rub their gums, etc.  

 Same as you would introduce a rug to a horse for the first time, or a saddle, or a bit or a headcollar or anything.

You can roll your eyes as much as you want at me.  If you have an issue with your horse you should make it part of your routine so they come to accept it as the norm like they would anything else.


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## hopscotch bandit (14 March 2018)

minesadouble said:



			It&#8217;s rubbish to say a horse shouldn&#8217;t need sedating for dental work. Some of ours do require sedation and some don&#8217;t. One of ours requires sedation as he has such a small tight mouth the gag is very uncomfortable for him. It would be tantamount to cruelty to try to treat such a horse without sedation.
		
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As I said in reply #35 'there are exceptions to the rule'.  Of course there are. Having a horse with a tight mouth as in your description makes sense, if its to the horses benefit.  But so many people don't even attempt to see how the horse gets on without sedation, they just go ahead.  That was the point I was trying to make.  I'd go to the ends of the earth if it meant my horse didn't have to be sedated for something routine as the farrier or dentist.  Sorry that's just my opinion.


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## milliepops (14 March 2018)

hopscotch bandit said:



			SERIOIUSLY stop misquoting me guys!!! I didn't suggest you get the dentist out every day!  Blimey. you should work for the Daily Mail. 

Seriously, you just have to put some work into desensiting them.  If they have a problem with the dentist surely you would work on holding their heads, opening their mouths, holding their tongues (as you would when you wormed them - or is it just me that does this?) rub their gums, etc.  

 Same as you would introduce a rug to a horse for the first time, or a saddle, or a bit or a headcollar or anything.

You can roll your eyes as much as you want at me.  If you have an issue with your horse you should make it part of your routine so they come to accept it as the norm like they would anything else.
		
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I'm not misquoting you, but I am interested to hear how you get them to accept rasps being moved over their teeth?!  Or perhaps you have a full set of tools as well!  that's the main bit that most object to after all, and the bit that is perculiar to dental work which is by its nature, fairly irregular compared to other handling-related events.


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## Auslander (14 March 2018)

hopscotch bandit said:



			holding their tongues (as you would when you wormed them - or is it just me that does this?)
		
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Argghh - please stop doing that! It's really not a good idea, as you can do serious damage to the hyoid apparatus, which the tongue is attached to.


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## hopscotch bandit (14 March 2018)

Auslander said:



			Argghh - please stop doing that! It's really not a good idea, as you can do serious damage to the hyoid apparatus, which the tongue is attached to.
		
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Didn't know that thanks Auslander . I've always done this when I have wormed without a problem.


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## hopscotch bandit (14 March 2018)

milliepops said:



			I'm not misquoting you, but I am interested to hear how you get them to accept rasps being moved over their teeth?!  Or perhaps you have a full set of tools as well!  that's the main bit that most object to after all, and the bit that is perculiar to dental work which is by its nature, fairly irregular compared to other handling-related events.
		
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Look , if you want to sedate your horse for the dentist then go ahead. I just wouldn't do that to any animal of mine.  Which is what my original reply did actually say. 

Janet George, Cortez and Lauren Bay have also said that they don't choose to sedate.  Its strange how you don't  direct your questions to them aw well or is it just my bad luck that you have decided to argue solely with me?


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## ester (14 March 2018)

But I can do all that? I even have to clear his front teeth with an implement as he has a gap grass gets stuck in, all very well tolerated. He doesn't mind the gag at all, he does mind the strange man (I don't have a great supply of them) and the rasping (I'm not doing that myself for obvious reasons) so it is hard to see why your suggestions would work. Most horses see a dentist every year, due to wear pattern we have usually done 6 monthly, that isn't frequent enough to get many training gains.

As I said the one who is tricky about her head and mouth, is absolutely fine and always has been with dentistry, go figure


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## hopscotch bandit (14 March 2018)

ester said:



			But I can do all that? I even have to clear his front teeth with an implement as he has a gap grass gets stuck in, all very well tolerated. He doesn't mind the gag at all, he does mind the strange man (I don't have a great supply of them) and the rasping (I'm not doing that myself for obvious reasons) so it is hard to see why your suggestions would work. Most horses see a dentist every year, due to wear pattern we have usually done 6 monthly, that isn't frequent enough to get many training gains.

As I said the one who is tricky about her head and mouth, is absolutely fine and always has been with dentistry, go figure 

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 Well if its hard to see how my suggestions would work then ignore them.  I am entitled to my opinion and that is how I would work with my horse.  I don't feel it is fair to sedate a horse when with a bit of time and effort you can de sensitise it.  

So if a horse is sensitive about having its feet handled for shoeing then repeated picking up of the feet and hammering them with whatever object you have suitable for the task is not sufficient unless you are prepared to bang some nails in with a hammer as you go along????  COME ON!! It is the same thing you are saying.

Years ago I had a rescue dog who was terrified of the vet.  I didn't know this until she went to the vet for the first time and tried to bite the vet when she attempted to look in her ears.  So before the next vets visit I ensure that she was absolutely 100% fine with having her ears handled and would spend many evening just stroking them and looking inside and asked any visitors to the house to look into her ears also when they petted her. As a result she was fine next time she had a check up because she was used to the repeated exposure her ears had endured! 

My friend had a horse she couldn't plait - he went mad when she went near his forelock so she spent many evenings sat on the washbox wall plaiting his forelock and rewarding him with a sweet when he did good - probably not the best thing to do. So for years after she would plait his mane, and finish with his forelock, after which he would get his reward.  Never looked back. Just 2 examples of hundreds I could mention.


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## JanetGeorge (14 March 2018)

HashRouge said:



			In fairness, you can't get exactly get rid of diastema so it's always going to be an ongoing issue.
		
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I her case, the diastema was a result of a tooth problem being missed.

My new EDT (when I say 'new', he worked for me as a rider for 6 years before he went into equine dentistry) treated her yesterday.  The difference was VERY noticeable when she was ridden this morning.  He did 7 other horses - all behaved beautifully, and one (who had its teeth 'treated' by the vet last in September) also had a major problem on the way.  One I really expected would play up started by freaking out and within 5 minutes was standing with his eyes back in his head.   Doping a horse to the eyeballs is easy for a vet but a horse learns nothing as a result!


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## milliepops (14 March 2018)

No I think you're missing the point HB, which is.. all of us can routinely do that stuff, because it's just normal handling which doesn't require any special kit or people to attend.  

Few of us can actually mock up the arrival of a strange person, the application of a gag, and running rasps over the horse's teeth. It's a specific thing that some horses really find quite stressful. 

I'm more than prepared to spend the time familiarising my horses with other things like shoeing, clipping etc. The one I choose to sedate for dental work stands without a headcollar to be clipped, lifts her feet for the farrier etc. But I can't simulate the dentist in a way that will make the annual visits acceptable to her.

Preaching to the converted anyway, since I have one that I will actively not sedate... it's horses for courses and what I object to is the assertion that all horses can be "got over" all situations and it's just laziness of owners to not sort it out.

There may also be occasions where it would be fairly urgent to get dental treatment to a horse that you don't have time to spend yonks getting it used to the idea (emergency treatment etc).


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## ester (14 March 2018)

But that is the thing HB, you are approaching it like a training problem and that horses that have issues have just not been trained correctly or thoroughly enough, we are suggesting that isn't true, that these are in fact well trained and desensitised horses. 

So what would the next at home doable training stage you would go to for a horse that is happy to have it's entire mouth handled, front, back etc, to the point of poking something between it's teeth every day to clear blockages, but does not like the feeling of a rasp against it's teeth?

Hammering a hoof is very similar to nailing a shoe on, what do you suggest that is similar to rasping teeth?


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## PapaverFollis (14 March 2018)

Sedating horses happens.  It happens for all sorts of reasons, all the time.  I had a TB for a time who probably got sedated about every 6 weeks on average as he kept trying to kill himself and needing stitched back together (or should that be done without sedation too?).  It's a common procedure with well studied risks.  Given that Granny with a gob-full of gag turns into a lethal weapon as she is the master of the impatient head toss I really don't think a bit of light sedation every 6 months is worthy of any derision or contempt.  FWIW I think they can learn to tolerate things while under sedation, as I said before we started needing enough to sedate an elephant for Granny... now she gets a shetland pony amount and is perfectly content.  It would be very, very difficult to train the head toss out of her - it's just something she does under little or no provocation.   I think it's great that some/many horses can be done without but mine isn't one of them and it isn't something I lose sleep over.


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## Auslander (14 March 2018)

I just feel that there is another person involved in the process - the dentist, and if a horse is likely to misbehave, for whatever reason - it's unfair on the person doing the job to expect them to be put at risk. If my horse squished my dentist and hurt her/affected her ability to work, because I wouldn't sedate, I'd feel pretty crappy. It's not her job to help train a difficult horse.

My dentist is excellent at dealing with nervous horses, and gives them all the time/space they need - and she is happy to do horses unsedated. I've got a few who aren't particularly good - and I would rather sedate them, and keep my dentist safe/allow her to do a decent job. It's an annual job, so I don't really feel that it's that important to desensitise horses that aren't accepting of the procedure. For jobs that need doing more regularly, I place a lot more importance on working to get the horse relaxed and accepting.


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## Damnation (14 March 2018)

I have 2 horses, 1 is fab for the dentist, stands like a rock, he is happy to do her without sedative.

Newbie had her teeth done in January (first time with me) and she was sedated. Very nervous type and she is a bloody big horse, I didn't even bother risking it - why would I?

Newbie also isn't great for the vet, and it did take 3 of us and about 10 minutes to sedate her. We know for next time to give her a loading dose of sedative into the muscle, let the dentist do the first one while the other is letting the dope work, then IV sedate and do her.

I would be absolutely mortified if someone lost their livelihood for weeks/months through injury because I wouldn't sedate a horse I know to be an issue.


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## hopscotch bandit (14 March 2018)

milliepops said:



			There may also be occasions where it would be fairly urgent to get dental treatment to a horse that you don't have time to spend yonks getting it used to the idea (emergency treatment etc).
		
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Agree as in reply 35 'there are exceptions to the rule'.


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## Tiddlypom (14 March 2018)

It's in a non veterinary qualified EDT's interests to float horses without the need for IV sedation. If you've got to get the vet out to sedate the horse first, you may as well get the vet to do the teeth as well while he/she's there rather than pay for the EDT on top. Though as observed elsewhere, not all (or indeed many) vets are great at teeth.

However, even my genius EDT is happy for me to pop some sedalin in a newbie with an uncertain history, such as the rescue foster ponies.

No one is suggesting that a known difficult horse should not  be sedated?


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## hopscotch bandit (14 March 2018)

Damnation said:



			I would be absolutely mortified if someone lost their livelihood for weeks/months through injury because I wouldn't sedate a horse I know to be an issue.
		
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Gosh I would too and in those circumstances I would sedate.  As I said in reply #35 there are exceptions to the rule.  Guess my horse must be more easy going that most, bit like me and my EDT to be honest lol.

My original reply was based more on people who routinely sedate for things.  Not sure why everyone's taken objection to my reply when there were many others on here that said basically the same thing. It's weird.


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## ester (14 March 2018)

Because you were the one that suggested it could be overcome with basic training and that the horse has to learn to accept it, implying that those who have horses that are difficult have not completed this, when it seems quite often they have. 

I think perhaps what is being missed, having re-read your earlier comments is that we often aren't talking horses that are kicking/rearing etc. As soon as you put a gag in the mouth any movement of the head can become very dangerous for dentist/handler.

My own is a very tolerant easy going sort of beast for pretty much everything in his life, he has to be he's put up with my for 13 years. But he does not like the feeling of a rasp against his teeth and if he were bigger I would expect any dentist to suggest sedation, current dentist if fine unsedated.


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## Alibear (14 March 2018)

Mine behaved herself without sedation, but she will insisted on trying to help. Tilting her head to get the rasp where she wanted then moving her head back and forth herself to rasp it.  Unfortunately she didn't appear to pick the same spots that the vet actually wanted to work on. So we sedated her,  I've not had her long so no sure yet how it will pan out in future.  Gave us both a chuckle though.


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## Nasicus (14 March 2018)

I have one that stands like a rock for the dentist, albeit with a look of abject horror on her face, but she's fine.
The other one is young, stroppy and opinionated, so it's safer for everyone involved, including the horse, to pop in some IV Sedation when it comes to actually rasping. She's accepting of the gag, but knowing her personality, she won't appreciate being awake to hear and feel a swarm of electric bees buzzing around her skull. I'd rather she remained willing and accepting of the dentists visits, than have a bad experience and attempt to knock the vet/dentist flying every time she spots them. It's taken over a year to get her to stop trying to eat our lovely vet after a major injury requiring 3 months of painful poking and prodding.


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## ihatework (14 March 2018)

I have to say I wouldn&#8217;t routinely sedate for the Dentist (or anything really), and have never come across an EDT that has requested this, the guy I use is so calm and quiet that he gives them a good experience. However I wouldn&#8217;t hesitate to sedate if I had a known or suspected problem!

My current horse is as kind and as genuine as they come, but does do &#8216;worried&#8217; very well. He arrived with his first set of shoes manhandled on with little thought given to getting them off and on again. So he has had a lot of homework done over the last 6 months but alongside that he has had a bit of chemical help  in reducing dosages .... this week he had his first set, hot shod, minus sleepy juice and was in general very calm and accepting.

On a similar note, given his shoeing tendencies, I took the decision to give him 3ml sedalin before his first Dentist. As it was I don&#8217;t think he needed it so will try without next time.

Like most things you need to take an educated decision with the horse you are dealing with at the time, but to state you would never use sedation is really quite daft!


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## scats (14 March 2018)

I give everything new the benefit of seeing how they are with it first.  I chat to my EDT and he always knows if its a new one and we take it slowly.  If we felt the situation was becoming dangerous, or the horse was very distressed, we would stop and re-arrange a date and I would arrange for sedation (EDT does a yard full, so never a wasted journey). In 30 years Ive never had to sedate anything, but I know a few people who have and it is for safety as their horses get very upset.

I was a bit dubious about Polly as she is head shy with people she doesnt know and didnt like being bridled so I knew the gag might be a problem, but we took it slowly.  It took ten minutes to put the gag on, but we kept the whole thing calm and gave her a chance.  She was an angel once the gag was on.
My EDT is always keen to give them a good experience if they are new and if its a huge job, he will do some and arrange to come back so we can do it in stages as to not stress the horse out.  It works for us so we will continue this way, but if I needed to sedate something, I would.


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## soloequestrian (25 March 2018)

Just to add - Sedalin has quite variable effects but Domosedan is much more like the IV sedation that the vet can provide.  It's a bit more expensive - around £35 for the tube - but you can get a really good, reliable sedation without the added cost of a vet.
I sedate two for the dentist and have one who is fine without.  As others have said, that gag on the end of a swinging neck is a lethal weapon without adding in a rear!


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## Auslander (25 March 2018)

Alf was done last week - with no sedation. Although I have no hesitation in agreeing to sedation if the horse is upset/dangerous, it's nice not to have to! He used to be very nervous, but he likes current dentist, and is happy to put up with the fiddling!
Interestingly, all the others had a different dentist last time, and their teeth were all shocking. I had opted to stay faithful to my regular one, and it was a smart move. His teeth were in good shape, and he just needed a tidy up.

[video=youtube_share;U7yjBuS8evo]https://youtu.be/U7yjBuS8evo[/video]


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