# best estate car/car for towing?



## SarahRicoh (9 March 2012)

Its been sugested that for me to tow my one 14.3hh ish & for day to day driving an estate car may be a better bet than a 4x4.. 
My sister tows with a vw passat but i thought it wasunsafe/illegal to tow with a car?
Are there any cars that would happily tow that? Suggestions please


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## cheeryplatypus (9 March 2012)

I'm sure the car has to be heavier than the combined weight of your horse and trailer.  Therefore you are probably ok to tow one horse and a normal trailer with quite a few different makes of car.  I know three people who use an Audi A4 to tow with and it's ok.  The manufacturer will tell you the maximum towing capacity.


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## Theresa_F (9 March 2012)

I used to tow my 14.3 cob in the very light weight Bateson Derby with my car.  It had a tow weight of 1500k so I was well within the limit.

I do now have a Landrover Defender, but I am towing the big Bateson trailer with my cob and our clydesdale.

I went miles with the car and trailer with no problems.  I did drive carefully and the downside was that I had to be careful with certain venues as if it was very wet and muddy I could have problems.  However, on the one time I did, a kind chap with a landy towed my trailer off and I then hitched up and loaded Stinky again.  

What you must do is ensure that the car's towing weight is compatible with the trailer and the weight of your horse.

As I recall the Passat has a 1700 k tow weight and I have seen them been used for ponies and light weight trailers.

I also used to use a Vito van which had a tow weight of 2000 k and this too was excellent to tow with and also I had tonnes of room for my stuff and could put an air mattress in the back and kip in it overnight.


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## Gracie21 (9 March 2012)

My dad tows with a Subaru Outback. 

It is amazing, and a 4x4. Very good up hills, ice, etc. And its luxury inside, all black leather with heated seats. 

He picked his up recently for £3k, they go on for ever and are great cars when they aren't towing too!


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## Horsemad12 (9 March 2012)

You need the correct towing capacity and ideally a car with a short backend as then the weight is closer to the centre of the car.

The older mondeo's were good.   I have towed with a Passat and hated it, not sturdy enough.  I have also towed with a pick up truck and that (although I loved the truck) was the worse of all due to the long back end.


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## TTK (9 March 2012)

Horsemad12 said:



			You need the correct towing capacity and ideally a car with a short backend as then the weight is closer to the centre of the car.

The older mondeo's were good.   I have towed with a Passat and hated it, not sturdy enough.  I have also towed with a pick up truck and that (although I loved the truck) was the worse of all due to the long back end.
		
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Agree re the pick-up truck, my L200 was really good but my Hi-lux was always getting a death weave on. Sorry OP, off-topic.


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## Fools Motto (9 March 2012)

One horse, our mondeo is lovely. Albeit we have a single 401 trailer too.


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## OWLIE185 (9 March 2012)

B licence - plated weight of trailer must not be more than unladen weight of towing vehicle
Towing vehicle GVW + plated MAM of trailer must not be more than 3500
Actual weight being towed must not exceed the manufacturer towing limit

B+E licence - Actual weight being towed must not exceed the manufacturer towing limit but the plated MAM of the trailer can be over that limit - this would be legal....
Towing vehicle has towing capacity of 2000 and is towing a trailer with a plated MAM of 3500
Trailer weighs 1000 unladen and has a 1000 load


One of the myths surrounding towing with a B category vehicle is that the plated trailer MAM must not exceed the towing capacity because it has the potential to be overloadedwhich is of course utter nonsense because no such charge exists in law


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## helencharlie (9 March 2012)

I tow with a mazada 6 with a cheval libertie trailer. Couldnt tell you what the weight ratio is at present, but we are well within the guided limit. Only my 16.2hh tb goes in the trailer. No issues with this set up


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## ROG (9 March 2012)

Plenty safely tow a single horse trailer with an estate car and many do so quite legally on a B licence

Just remember these simple rules if looking to tow on a B licence -

The plated MAM of the trailer must not be more than unladen or kerb weight of the estate car

The plated MAM of the trailer and the GVW of the estate car when added together must not add up to more than 3500 kgs

The braked towing weight capacity listed for the estate car must not be exceeded when the trailer is loaded with the horse
(horse plus empty weight of trailer must not add up to more than the towing capacity of the estate car)

When loaded with the horse, the plated MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded

When you find the estate car and trailer you are considering Sarah then let me know what you can about them and I'll let you know if they are ok for B licence towing


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## SarahRicoh (9 March 2012)

Thanks guys.. Im pretty useless when it comes to estate type cars..
So passat isnt great?
Mondeos?
Other ideasthanks for advice


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## SNORKEY (9 March 2012)

I have a mazda 6 estate with a 2ltr engine, and im looking to buy an ifor williams single trailer, and only tow a 14.2hh in it, Ive seen a lot of estate cars towing trailers, so im sure any estate with a bigger engine will be fine.


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## reddie (9 March 2012)

We have a single ifor Williams trailer with both a VW passat and a Peugeot 406, both of which were fine.


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## SarahRicoh (9 March 2012)

Thanks guys-keep ideas coming


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## ROG (9 March 2012)

SNORKEY said:



			I have a mazda 6 estate with a 2ltr engine, and im looking to buy an ifor williams single trailer, and only tow a 14.2hh in it, Ive seen a lot of estate cars towing trailers, so im sure any estate with a bigger engine will be fine.
		
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Taking that set up and seeing what I could find in just a few minutes second hand ......

MAZDA 6 ESTATE 2LTR about £1,800
Kerb 1540
GVW 2010
Towing 1600

IFOR HB401 SINGLE HORSE TRAILER for about £1,200
Unladen 770
MAM 1600

The trailer MAM would need downplating to 1490 but that's an easy thing to do - just contact IFOR Williams and they'll assist with that process

After downplating to 1490 it would leave a max load of 720 so plenty for a large horse


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## NeverSayNever (9 March 2012)

ROG said:



			Taking that set up and seeing what I could find in just a few minutes second hand ......

MAZDA 6 ESTATE 2LTR about £1,800
Kerb 1540
GVW 2010
Towing 1600

IFOR HB401 SINGLE HORSE TRAILER for about £1,200
Unladen 770
MAM 1600

The trailer MAM would need downplating to 1490 but that's an easy thing to do - just contact IFOR Williams and they'll assist with that process

After downplating to 1490 it would leave a max load of 720 so plenty for a large horse
		
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think im having a 'moment' lol - ROG, why does the trailer need downplating? Im still confused - i thought it was a myth they had to match the plate on the car?


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## NeverSayNever (9 March 2012)

wait!  ignore me, the downplating is to keep the weight right for someone who doesnt have B+E, is that right? 

(stupid me)


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## ROG (9 March 2012)

NeverSayNever said:



			wait!  ignore me, the downplating is to keep the weight right for someone who doesnt have B+E, is that right? 

(stupid me)
		
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You're not stupid - it just took a little longer for the penny to drop - Same happens to me quite often - that's why I like the EDIT option


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## NeverSayNever (9 March 2012)

ROG said:



			You're not stupid - it just took a little longer for the penny to drop - Same happens to me quite often - that's why I like the EDIT option 

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lol, thanks, i blame baby brain   not sure why, as I am sorted myself, fab truck, HB505, B+E....   but I still have some burning desire to be well informed about the legislation, which doesnt even affect me


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## SarahRicoh (9 March 2012)

I still cant get my head around rules :/


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## SarahRicoh (9 March 2012)

Bump


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## ROG (10 March 2012)

SarahRicoh said:



			I still cant get my head around rules :/
		
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I'll TRY and help with a step by step guide for a B licence

When looking at a trailer there will be a little oblong/rectangle piece of metal which is usually silver in colour (looks a bit like tin foil!!) and usually found on the triangular metalwork at the front of the trailer and just behind where it attaches to the towing vehicle.

On that strip of metal you will find a figure like 1600 or 2500 for example
That is the plated MAM of that trailer
For many trailers that have not been replated the original weights can be found online by googling like this for example -
ifor williams hb401 trailer
This is one of the results
scroll down to the bottom and the weights are given
MGW (or MAM) 1600
Unladen 770

In the handbook, on the V5 registered keepers form or on a plate in the vehicle you will find the GVW and the KERB weight as well as the towing capacity for the towing vehicle
These figures can usually be found online if you google them something like this - 
ford mondeo estate 2002 gvw kerb towing weight kg
This is one of the results
Scroll down and click the DIMENSIONS tab and you get these figures -
KERB 1554
GVW 2165
TOWING braked 1800

We now have the weights for a car and trailer so need to look at the rules for B licence towing

question 1
Is the GVW/MAM of the trailer more than the kerb/unladen weight of the car?
Answer = yes because 1600 is more than 1554
Conclusion - no good for B licence towing BUT could be remedied by downplating the trailer to below 1554

question 2
Does the GVW/MAM of the trailer plus the GVW of the car add up to more than the 3500 maximum allowed for B licence towing?
Answer = yes because 1600 plus 2165 = 3765
Conclusion - no good for B licence towing BUT could easily be remedied by downplating the trailer to a maximum of 1335

question 3
When loaded will the trailer including its load be more than the towing capacity of 1800?
Answer = no, not in either case so thats ok

We now know that this trailer would need to be downplated to conform to B licence towing and the lower figure of 1335 would be needed to conform to question 2

In this case contacting IFOR Williams the trailer manufacturer would be the first thing to do and they will guide you from that point
Apparently, in most IFOR cases, they issue a new plate and it gets fixed on the trailer for free by one of their local agents

In this example we will have the trailer downplated to 1300
1300 minus the unladen weight of the trailer (770) = 530
530 would be the maximum weight that could be loaded into that trailer

Going directly to your nearest weighbridge when loaded is always a wise move and if it is overloaded then you can go directly back to where it was loaded and unload it without any legal penalty

Has that helped at all Sarah?


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## SarahRicoh (10 March 2012)

That has.. Thankyou rog  im a little bit mathmatically challenged so all this working out is hard lol!
Think my stepdad will drive until i  pass my test so it doesnt need to be on a b license (although would be brill if i didnt need to do test!)
Does that mean a greater choice in cars?
Can i tow before doing test if stepdads with me?

Any other ideas on cars? Budgets very low... Under £1.5k


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## kippen64 (10 March 2012)

In Australia we are so lucky. No trailer licenses. Family cars get used for towing a lot here, so some of them can tow a lot. The recent Ford Falcons can tow 2300kg if an automatic and with the heavy duty tow pack. Before I buy the truck I dream about, it will be a Ford Falcon station wagon (estate car) and a float (horse trailer).  Mind you, we have different laws in different states. So it may not be legal in NSW, even though it is legal here in Victoria.


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## SarahRicoh (10 March 2012)

Hmm i really dont know which car would work :/


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## paulineh (10 March 2012)

For years I towed with a Subaru Automatic Estate and an old heavy Rice double trailer. I also tow with a Mondao again with no problem including the hills on Exmoor.

I now have a Land Rover Discovery Automatic and would not tow with anything else. This is my third one.


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## ROG (10 March 2012)

SarahRicoh said:



			Can i tow before doing test if stepdads with me?
		
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Most definitely yes - a very good idea - loaded or empty is legal

You already have B+E provisional so that is OK
(all B drivers have a B+E provisional on the paper part of the licence)

You need correct insurance for a B+E learner - get StepDad to call his insurer if he is the main driver as adding you to that might be the cheapest way 

L plates are needed on front of vehicle and back of trailer

StepDad must have B+E and have had it for at least 3 years

StepDad must be over age 21 - think that would be impossible not to be unless Mum has a very young toyboy


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## CrazyMare (10 March 2012)

We use a Mercedes E300 turbo diesel estate for towing. All of ours are under 14.2

Fuel bill isn't cheap though with a 3l turbo diesel!!!!!


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## laura7981 (10 March 2012)

Rog, would a peugeot 406 pull a single trailer with a 500kg horse in on a B license?


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## Farma (10 March 2012)

I have just started towing with a car (with thanks to the advice of ROG )

The car is a merc c180 saloon, has towing weight of 1800 and I tow an ifor 403 so lightweight around 750kg with 1x500kg horse in it, it tows like a dream and certainly no better or worse than a 4x4. 

Obviously as others mentioned you need to consider what type of shows you are going to so you dont get stuck in any mud


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## ROG (10 March 2012)

laura7981 said:



			Rog, would a peugeot 406 pull a single trailer with a 500kg horse in on a B license?
		
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Bit difficult because there are many 406 models and all have different KERB and GVW weights BUT .... I can make a very rough guess....

KERB 1500 as that seems to be the AVERAGE
GVW 2000 as that seems to be the AVERAGE
Towing capacity 1500 - that seems to be the same for all

Using those guesstimated (new word) figures.... you would need a single horse trailer plated at no more than 1500 MAM and as most weigh around 800 max unladen then fitting a 500 kg horse will not be a problem

There is one trailer which, as far as I can see, will be good to go as it is for all 406 models without downplating and that is the Cheval liberte 1003xl with a MAM of 1400 and an unladen weight of 655 allowing a load of 745


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## ROG (10 March 2012)

Farma said:



			I have just started towing with a car (with thanks to the advice of ROG )

The car is a merc c180 saloon, has towing weight of 1800 and I tow an ifor 403 so lightweight around 750kg with 1x500kg horse in it, it tows like a dream and certainly no better or worse than a 4x4. 

Obviously as others mentioned you need to consider what type of shows you are going to so you dont get stuck in any mud 

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I believe yours was on a B+E licence - the OP was looking to tow on a B licence


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## SarahRicoh (10 March 2012)

Thanks all.. Mercs outa my budget i should think


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## Freya (10 March 2012)

I'm about to start considering what to do about what vehicle to use when towing.  At the moment I have 15hh 2yr old so he doesn't weigh as much as he will do in another 2yrs.

I don't have my own trailer, I'll be hiring it due to only needing it a few times a year to go to shows.

Currently have a volvo c70 convertible - towing capacity is 1600kg.  Probably alright for the time being but won't feel comfortable when my baby is all grown up.    My only concern is obviously towing in fields at shows, plus the car is quite low.

I have been thinking of a pickup, but reading the earlier posts they aren't so great due to the long ends.

It's difficult to decide which car is the best, OH hates 4x4s so I'm a little stuck 

I'll keep an eye on this thread as I'm interested, hopefully your able to make a decision Sarah


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## CrazyMare (10 March 2012)

SarahRicoh said:



			Thanks all.. Mercs outa my budget i should think 

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Depends on the age - ours is a 1994, and we have had it 5 years. Paid about £1800 for it from Ebay, and it has worked hard, every day. Either towing horses, or shooting trailers or generally carting stuff.


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## SarahRicoh (10 March 2012)

Really crazy mare? Dont think il get insured either


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## SarahRicoh (10 March 2012)

Bump


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## SarahRicoh (11 March 2012)

Any other ideas?


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## laura7981 (11 March 2012)

Thanks for that Rog, so much help as usual . Do you know if there's a double horse trailer that I could down plate that would be suitable to tow with a pug 406 on a B licence. It would still only ever be for the one horse.... Doubles just seem more stable than singles... And there's more of them for sale.


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## ROG (11 March 2012)

laura7981 said:



			Thanks for that Rog, so much help as usual . Do you know if there's a double horse trailer that I could down plate that would be suitable to tow with a pug 406 on a B licence. It would still only ever be for the one horse.... Doubles just seem more stable than singles... And there's more of them for sale.
		
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If the figures are as I posted earlier - you really need to check - then any horse trailer with an unladen weight of 1000 or under could be downplated to 1500 which would then allow for a 500 horse - just

I would google for - horse trailers unladen weight kgs - and see what comes up

the lighter the unladen weight the heavier load it could carry after downplating

If you find the exact figures for your vehicle and then find a trailer you think could work, please post in the HHO towing clinic so as to keep this thread on track (or bridleway - LOL)

sorry Sarah, back to finding you a suitable car and trailer.......


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## SarahRicoh (11 March 2012)

Lol dont worry rog.. Nice to see threads helping people


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## laura7981 (12 March 2012)

Rog ....Can i ask you another towing numpty question please . Regarding the pugeot 406, the one im thinking of buying is a 2l HDI but its the hatchback type, not the estate. Would this make any difference to towing


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## ROG (13 March 2012)

laura7981 said:



			Rog ....Can i ask you another towing numpty question please . Regarding the pugeot 406, the one im thinking of buying is a 2l HDI but its the hatchback type, not the estate. Would this make any difference to towing 

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http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/peugeot.htm#406400
According to that link the kerb weights and towing weights are virtually the same so I reckon they will tow the same

If towing on a B licence the GVW weights will be needed to accertain if you can tow a specific trailer legally


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## strike18 (10 October 2012)

Have read all the posts but still dont know what car I should get!! I found a downplated trailer with 1465kg mam. was looking at subaru forresters but their kerb weight is lower than the Mam of the trailer. I am needing something in the £3500 rage second hand... any ideas anyone PLEASE???


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## ROG (10 October 2012)

strike18 said:



			Have read all the posts but still dont know what car I should get!! I found a downplated trailer with 1465kg mam. was looking at subaru forresters but their kerb weight is lower than the Mam of the trailer. I am needing something in the £3500 rage second hand... any ideas anyone PLEASE???
		
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I have these specs for that vehicle but you may be looking at a different model
SUBARU FORRESTER (4X4) 
Unladen/kerb = 1465 minimum
GVW = 2050 maximum
Towing = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM for B licence towing = 1450 kgs

You can downplate the 1465 kg MAM trailer further by contacting the manufacturer


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## strike18 (10 October 2012)

Thanks! There are so many subaru's and all the ones for sale in my price range seem to have low kerb weights   can u recommend any other cars from 2003-2005 that would be good but also legal?


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## ROG (10 October 2012)

strike18 said:



			Thanks! There are so many subaru's and all the ones for sale in my price range seem to have low kerb weights   can u recommend any other cars from 2003-2005 that would be good but also legal?
		
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Not my field of expertise


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## SouthWestWhippet (10 October 2012)

I'm wondering if I can safely (and legaly) tow my Bahill pony box (braked trailer, unladen weight 550kg) with a Skoda Octavia hatchback?

Would be carrying one pony, 14hh,  approximately 475kg I think. I would also remove the central partition in trailer which would bring the weight down further. 

I don't have a towing license yet. Would aim to get one but would prefer the chance to practice lots first so being able tow legally with this combo would be great for me. 

thanks


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## ROG (10 October 2012)

SouthWestWhippet said:



			I'm wondering if I can safely (and legaly) tow my Bahill pony box (braked trailer, unladen weight 550kg) with a Skoda Octavia hatchback?

Would be carrying one pony, 14hh,  approximately 475kg I think. I would also remove the central partition in trailer which would bring the weight down further. 

I don't have a towing license yet. Would aim to get one but would prefer the chance to practice lots first so being able tow legally with this combo would be great for me. 

thanks
		
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ANSWERED HERE in post number 756


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## Blythwind (10 October 2012)

We tow our Ifor 401 single trailer with a Vauxhall Vectra 1.9cdti on a B licence. Car copes fine!


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## SouthWestWhippet (10 October 2012)

thanks, well I haven't bought the Skoda yet, am still working out if I can afford it. But I will get the MAM for the trailer if I can (hope it is on the plate - box is older than me I think!). Do you mind if I ask again when I have all the information and am ready to go car shopping?

J


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## ROG (10 October 2012)

SouthWestWhippet said:



			Do you mind if I ask again when I have all the information and am ready to go car shopping?
		
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No probs but please ask on the HHO towing clinic thread so as we leave this free for the OP to find their towing car etc


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## Overgrown Pony (10 October 2012)

I had the same issues.  B license and couldn't afford to run a thirsty 4x4 everyday.

After some cracking advise from the ever patient ROG I ended up with a Cheval Liberte mare and foal (slightly wider than a single) which only weighs 550kg and I tow it with a 2ltr TD Mondeo.  The car pulls like a dream and is very economical to run.  I'd highly recommend it.  We paid £6500 for the car but you'd get an older model much much cheaper.


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## KarlyHT (10 October 2012)

ROG is a legend! Always willing to help!


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## strike18 (10 October 2012)

How about a kia sportage 2.0 xse 2003 ? Looks like kerb is 1494 gvw 1928 and my trailer will be 1465 ?


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## ROG (10 October 2012)

strike18 said:



			How about a kia sportage 2.0 xse 2003 ? Looks like kerb is 1494 gvw 1928 and my trailer will be 1465 ?
		
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THIS ONE?
Legal for B licence towing 

1928+1465=3393 which is not more than 3500
1465 is not more than 1494 so that is ok

Have done this answer on here to show what rules need to be followed for the OP


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## strike18 (10 October 2012)

Thanks so much!! Kia sportage it is! Hope it drives well! Time will tell


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## sbloom (10 October 2012)

SarahRicoh said:



			Thanks all.. Mercs outa my budget i should think 

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Large cars with large engines depreciate much faster than hatchbacks etc - we just picked up a top end 10 year old Audi A6 estate with a 3l V6 petrol engine for £2k.  If you're JUST using it for towing then it may make sense as you'll still spend less overall, even though it has a low mpg.  Obviously insurance is an issue but if you're only using for towing it will be very few miles per year so that may go in your favour.  Worth looking into.


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## RLS (10 October 2012)

Blythwind said:



			We tow our Ifor 401 single trailer with a Vauxhall Vectra 1.9cdti on a B licence. Car copes fine!
		
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I also have a vauxhall vectra estate, but a 2 ltr deisel one. I tow an older trailer, about 850kg, with a 15hh in it (~400kg) or a 15.3hh (~500kg). Usually only one horse, but have taken both on very short (5-6 mile) trips. 
Car has been brilliant, despite age and clocking up over 180,000 miles. Although does now sound (and look sometimes) a bit like a tractor!


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