# Dalmation as a Gun Dog - thoughts....



## Aces_High (7 January 2013)

Before you think I am completely nuts....

I am looking at getting a dalmatian puppy and training it to pick up so it can come out shooting with me.  I know they are bred as carriage dogs and can be highly strung.  A friend breeds them and concentrates on them being placid and well put together/healthy dogs.  I am a believer that with good training and repetition you can pretty much train an animal to do anything!  

So does anyone presently have a spotty dog and what do you think?!


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## Otis and Lucie (7 January 2013)

I've had 4 over the years, 2 females and 2 males. I found the females better to work with by far, they tended to concentrate more, faster learners, more "toy motivated" and generally more eager to please. 
The males tended to be a bit "dappy" day dreaming, short attention span, and a little highly strung at times.
Lovely dogs, used to go running across the common with my last one and she loved it, you could see she always had 1 eye on me to see where I was and used to sit and wait for me to catch up with her, regardless of what was going on around her.


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## Tinsel Trouble (7 January 2013)

I know a gun dog trainer who, (as a joke) trained a Staffie to retrieve for him. He only sent him out after the birds who fell close to him and the birds came back pretty mauled but, they did come back!!

Good luck!! (personally I would go for a wire haired german pointer- a very striking looking, long-legged all round shooting dog, much cheaper than their more popular cousin the short haird german pointer!)


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## Aces_High (7 January 2013)

O&L - it's strange as I was thinking that I would go for a bitch over a dog.  My cousins used to have dogs and I must admit one of them bit my brother's girlfriend - it was a very timid dog and it attacked when nervous.  I am glad that you have such a good word to say on them - they are striking and I think they also make lovely pets.

TT - I know someone who trained a staffie to pick up as well!!!!  Hilarious!!!!  We have a GSP - he is lovely and my brother rehomed him.  He was living in a flat and now goes out shooting and does everything and is at my brothers side the whole time.  He has SOOOOOO much energy and has huge separation anxiety from my brother.  He has taken to me and he is cracking - he looks like a baby giraffe as he has such long legs!  I love the wire haired ones - an old boss of mine had several but he didn't work them.  My lovely lab was put down a year ago now and I felt that I would go for a change.


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## Jools1234 (7 January 2013)

i agree you pretty much train any dog  to do any job, but you cannot teach a dog to be soft mouthed when doing that job and if it mauls /mouths the birds regularly then you will be asked not to pick up with it


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## Aces_High (7 January 2013)

Jools - I will only pick up at home if she turns out to have a hard mouth.  I guess Labradors etc generally have soft mouths but there must be the odd few who are hard mouthed.  We have a spaniel who has brought eggs from the chicken run into the house unscathed.  He has on the odd occassion picked up a pheasant and you cannot get him to release it - he honestly locks his jaw like a bull terrier and you are stuck!  I also think it's important to not play tug games with them as puppies as I have always been led to believe this will give a dog a bad mouth??


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## echodomino (7 January 2013)

My Jack Russell Terrier's daughter goes out picking up on her local shoot, she's even had comments about being better than some of the Labs, not bad saying they all laughed at her when she started! 

I grew up with GWPs though ours were shown not worked. Hungarian Wirehaired Vizslas are becoming very popular working dogs, bit calmer than the GWP, very eager to please so easy to train and fantastic familiy dogs - not that I'm biased having also grown up with these and having 2 of my own  lol


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## Cinnamontoast (7 January 2013)

You're right about the tugging thing, bad form as it encourages the dog to maul the bird which should be fit for table. 

I don't see why you couldn't train a dally to pick up. Get the pup then see how she goes. As long as she doesn't misbehave horribly, you can always just keep her on the line without actually sending her for a pick up. I reckon she might be fab! Someone was asking about using their westie on another forum!


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## Kitty B (8 January 2013)

Loki would make a terrible gun dog, but then he has a very short attention span, and has always had a habit of eating anything that goes into his mouth! I would probably go with a female, too. My last girl was very clever and eager to learn. With the right dog and the training, I don't see why it wouldn't work out.


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## Aces_High (8 January 2013)

Eek - Many Thanks for all the feedback - it looks like it might just not be impossible!!  I know Dalmatians have a rep for being very greedy but so do Labs   My lab used to eat everything that passed her lips but I must admit she always used to (eventually) bring the birds back to me without scoffing them - just sometimes in her own time!  I am going to look at the bloodlines of the ones I know who are all very placid and see if there is any connection and hopefully that might take some of the surprise out of it.  Soooo excited!!  Probably will not happen until the summer - thanks again!


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## PorkChop (8 January 2013)

I agree that with enough time and patience you can teach a dog to retrieve, however you do have to accept that there is a reason that everyone uses labradors and springers.

What about training him to beat?  Or why not train him to be a peg dog, now that would be a striking dog to have on your peg.

Bottom line is if you want a picking-up dog I don't think a dalmation would be the most sensible breed.


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## FfionWinnie (8 January 2013)

You can train most dogs to do most things but it will be an uphill struggle I think. If you want to do it for a bit of fun and won't be distraught if its a disaster, then no problem. If you want a dog which will most likely pick up and enjoy it (gun shyness could be another issue) get one bred to do it.


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## Alec Swan (8 January 2013)

A_H,

Why?  What's so wrong with our established and already focused breeds?  VERY rarely,  a non gundog breed will come along which surprises everyone.  I know,  I've seen them,  but not one that I've seen has ever been because of the ability of the trainer,  it's always been about the dog. 

If we were allowed to still course hares,  would you use a poodle?  Probably not is the answer.

If you want to have a go,  then by all means do,  but be prepared to end up with a dalmatian as a pet,  and nothing else.  Gundogs need to be compliant,  biddable,  willing and keen to learn.  Dalmatians tend to lack all of those qualities!  Good luck! 

Alec.


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## Star_Chaser (8 January 2013)

Poodle used to be a gundog breed before it was a circus and pandered pet... 

If you fancy a laugh then I'd give it a go but taking a carriage dog and expecting it to be a gundog... ummm not so sure.  If you want a laugh I've seen a GSD and a bullterrier on a shoot so as long as you don't mind a pet if it doesn't work out why not.  You might have a bit of problem with bogging off though   You better be good at taking a ribbing because its going to stick out like a sore thumb 

In all fairness though if your going to opt for a Gundog not of the lab or spaniel variety there are plenty to choose from GSPs, GWP's are popular and work, Vizslars if you want an moaner (sorry but of late all the ones I've met whine the whole time) spinone? slovak? Weimaraner?? Probably close to your Dally 

Soft mouths... umm Labs are no better than any other breed its down to the dog I've seen some very soft mouthed HPRs and some rotten labs who've brought birds back not fit for the bin!

Dont be put off by rescues there are some cracking dogs that come in because they need a job so long as you can iron out some of their quirks.


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## CorvusCorax (8 January 2013)

Mrs Barrington from the Brittas GSD and IWS kennel, used to work her sheps to the gun (and herding, and showing, and obedience, she also bred several international show champions, busy lady ) and so did the old Bellbar kennel. I also know someone with a showline/workingline crossover doing gundog training. Not sure how that would work out, when the breed, especially the working lines, should be genetically inclined to grip/hold but they seem to be getting on OK!!


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## jodie3 (8 January 2013)

In Shooting Times a month or so ago there was an article about non gundogs being trained as gundogs and one that had been succesfully trained was a Dalmatian.  I usually get the mag after my boss has read it and was looking forward to reading it as I have three Dals myself but unfortunately that copy was lent to someone else first and i never got it.  Not sure if you can see it online?


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## Wishful (8 January 2013)

Think mouse softness completely depends on the dog/breeding rather than training.  We did (and still do) play tug with our lab and his mouth is soft enough that he can carry tomatoes without damage, and we could even play catch with a balloon model at Christmas without it popping!


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## Cop-Pop (8 January 2013)

My aunt had a male dalmation who was sent to a gun dog trainer out of desperation - he returned a fairly decent dog but the trainer said he was too highly strung and strong willed to be taken on a shoot.  He was a nightmare dog tho, nothing he couldn't destroy!


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## dalidaydream (9 January 2013)

I've been trying to find where I read it and failed but I think dalmatians were originally bred to be gun dogs but they were a disaster so they were used to guard the stables and carriages instead.  Certainly neither of the 2 I've had would be any good.


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## Fools Motto (9 January 2013)

All the dalmations I know are as dappy as the day is long, so I wish you good luck!


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## dalidaydream (9 January 2013)

Fools Motto said:



			All the dalmations I know are as dappy as the day is long, so I wish you good luck! 

Click to expand...

My first one was very intelligent - so intelligent she would be able to work out she'd be better off staying well away from me and eating any treasure she'd found than giving it back to me.  No reward would ever be as good as what she'd found so she would've never made a gun dog


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## Alec Swan (9 January 2013)

dalidaydream said:



			My first one was very intelligent - so intelligent she would be able to work out she'd be better off staying well away from me and eating any treasure she'd found than giving it back to me.  No reward would ever be as good as what she'd found so she would've never made a gun dog 

Click to expand...

...... and therein lies the problem,  with oh so many dogs.  Do we relegate them to the zone of the thick,  or impossible,  or do we work to be that little bit brighter,  and then,  are any such dogs actually worth the effort?  As someone who's spent many years thinking about our canine companions,  I'm still not sure of the answer.

Alec.


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