# Horse getting tongue over bit constantly



## Ranyhyn (17 October 2011)

Also in NL

Vital stats:
6YO ISH mare
I have had her for 5 months
Previous history known
Wearing a NS team-up (as previously ridden in)
cavesson, lightly done up.
Teeth not due (done before she came to me)

Ok, since Clover came to me she has been fidgetty in her mouth - showing itself in her tongue almost constantly over the bit.  I spoke to Measles, who recommended me take the bit up, which I did and it solved the problem for a little while.

Now mare is back in work, she's back doing it.  I have put bit UP and DOWN and it happens almost constantly.  I don't want to change her tack if I don't have to - so wondering if anyone has any other ideas?  Could the bit be too large (this making a nice gap over the tongue?) I did buy the size I was recommended, but these things happen - maybe the bit _is_ too long? YO looked at it previously and said they wouldn't like to see it any higher - so thats the only thing I can come up with.

I only have crap photos, sorry - hope this gives an idea!
she's mid tongue action here 






sorry about my face in this one, but it shows how much is on that side..






ETA: she has never done this before, I've seen various videos of her being ridden by other people and she's not doing it, so it must be something I've done, but can't think what


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## Tnavas (17 October 2011)

HAs she had her teeth checked recently? This bit is one that will sort out the tongue over the bit problem


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## Booboos (17 October 2011)

Lovely horse!

I would get her teeth checked again, sorry but I wouldn't trust previous owners to have done them, people lie all the time! In either case after 5 months she could well be due again.

The bit does not look too large to me. Unfortunately the only real solition if the teeth are fine is to try other bits. I found the Sprenger Turnado to be very good with a horse that got his tongue over the bit.


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## Imonone (17 October 2011)

I had my young mare in a KK Ultra, she constantly got her tongue over the bit. I swapped to a NS Verbindend in the same size and problem was solved........go figure :-/


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## *Spider* (17 October 2011)

She's gorgeous - she's obviously related to my horse - Clover Hill bloodlines


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## Ranyhyn (17 October 2011)

Booboos said:



			Lovely horse!

I would get her teeth checked again, sorry but I wouldn't trust previous owners to have done them, people lie all the time! In either case after 5 months she could well be due again.
		
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Thanks Booboos, measles is her previous owner and I have the dentists paperwork for the check, so I'm pretty confident it was done 

I had looked up on dentistry and my local equine vet advised 1 check a year, is this less for younger horses? (forgive me she's my first under 10!)

I am more than happy to get vet out to do her teeth though, as I had thought it was every 6 months (getting conflicting advice here and there )

And thank you everyone, she is lovely, just hoping I'm not missing a trick here and doing something that'd upsetting her! And yes, predictably a CH mare  I'm getting to like every single one I see though so there must be something in it


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## whizzer (17 October 2011)

My lad has always been a shocker for this! He's done it for years(& yes he has everything checked on a regular basis!) Does it in every type of bit I ever use. He's always much worse when he's been off work, he's very foward going & gets frustrated when unfit & getting tired. He also does it when I'm trying some thing new on the flat & he's confused about what I'm asking for. He will go for long periods without doing it at all. Interestingly he never does it when jumping(jumping is his favourite occupation!). When he does do it he helpfully always put it back over before I can stop & sort it out & he's not obvious about it so people rarely ever realise he does it at all. I find that a drop noseband helps tremendously.


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## Ranyhyn (17 October 2011)

I did consider a drop, however I am really keen to find out what the difference is - because she didn't do it previously, this is a new trick for her!  She's a very straightforward mare in all respects, so it's odd for her to have picked up a quirk in the few hours she spent travelling from old owner, to me.

I'm the first person to consider that its ME or something I've done (or not done  ) that is causing it before I strap her up.

Also I'm a lazy tack person


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## Booboos (17 October 2011)

She's a young horse, it could just be that her mouth has changed, or she is finding the new work load more demanding and has cleverly found a new way out of work. Trying out a new piece of tack is not an admission of defeat as a rider!!! Tack options are there to help you, there is no reason to continue suffering with something that does not work. A new bit needn't be expensive either, bit banks will allow you to try and return unsuitable bits at a small cost.


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## Ranyhyn (17 October 2011)

Thanks booboos, I usually use gail @horsebithire for bits.  

Would you suggest plan of action, dentist-bit-noseband *or* dentist-noseband-bit?


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## whizzer (17 October 2011)

If she was mine I'd get her teeth checked just to put my mind at rest,young horses can spring all sorts of teeth things on you! When mine was young he had dentist every 6 mths & always needed something doing! He's in his teens now & is checked every 6 months but usually only needs doing yearly. I persevered in a cavesson for years & years but resorted to a flash as we could never get to the bottom of why  he does it. I have lots of lessons with very well respected people & they eventually put it down to a funny habit that he does when tired or unsure trying new things. I really hate flashes & tried friends drop as an experiment about 4 yrs ago, it worked so well that I bought one straightaway & have used it ever since.


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## PorkChop (17 October 2011)

I think it is a matter of systematically working through a list of things that could be changed or checked.

I personally think you are doing the right thing by not using a flash or drop for the time being, my first port of call would be trying a Verbindend/Tongue Relief Bit/Hippo type bit - the last two you will find on the Cotswold Sport website. 

I think that often horses put their tongue over when they don't have a lot of room in their mouths, so quite a thin bit.

Also make sure you are being super soft with your hands, and insist that she go on a light contact x


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## Booboos (17 October 2011)

I would get the dentist out to be honest first. Two of mine need doing every six months (one is 9, the other is 12 but both have needed every 6 months since I bought them at 5 and 6 respectively), otherwise you know about it (fussy in mouth, refusing to take bit, even bridle lame due to sharp bits digging in with the bridle).

Personally I prefer to change the bit for horses that get their tongues over rather than use a flash, but if the flash works for you go for it.


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## not_with_it (17 October 2011)

My horse is a pro at this. I've had her nearly 10 years and she has always done it no matter what bit or noseband she is wearing. Sorry I know that its not what you want to here. My trainer gets really frustrated with her.

She is ridden in a flash noseband and a NS loose ring snaffle, not sure which one. I tried her in a drop which solved the problem for a few weeks but then it made the problem 10 times worse and took a while to sort out. I have tried her in just a cavasson and various bits, none of which have made a difference. 

Its something that I have learnt to live with. She is worse when she gets cold and stiff and so I always make sure she is warm. 

My dentist is coming next week and so I am going to have a long lengthy chat with him, the poor man.


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## whizzer (17 October 2011)

Nat,glad I'm not the only one that's had this problem for years! Mine's so good at it that sometimes I don't even know he's done it,he sometimes does a tiny 'gulp' as he does it & often I only realise what he's done as he's putting it back under the bit!


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## kerryflower (17 October 2011)

I woudl get dentist out - Highly recommend Jess Hayes. I usually use Peter H and had Ollie doen in Feb but wasn't convinced that he had been very thorough as did Sharone. Oscar starting putting tongue over bit and Jess came out and both had ulcers as back teeth hadn't been done properly  Problem solved for Oscar and Ol much happier in mouth. Also, she seemd better that day at beach when I leant u that flash strap. I agree it isn't an admission of defeat. I had ot put one on Ol for flatwork because he got very clever at evading the bit and therefore workign into a true contact but the flash has really improved this as recommended by Kate G. So if I was u I would get dentist and try a flash


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## Louby (17 October 2011)

I feel your pain 
Ive had my horse since he was a just backed rising 4 yr old.  He has done it for as long as I can remember.  The difference being I dont think my boy aims to get his tongue over the bit, more drawing it back constantly.  Ive spent a fortune on bits and have tried all the ones mentioned above and lots lots more as well as no noseband, flash, drop and grackle.  It drives me mad.  The photo looks exactly like what my boy does, I think they look mesmarised as if sucking a dummy.  The omly time my horse stops is if he spots something scary or exciting in the distance.  He stops for a moment then furiously starts clanking the bit and drawing his tongue back.  I think his 'vice' is now an ingrained habit.  Its so bad I cant use a flash long term as it rubs the side of his mouth due to so much movement.
Ps the tongue saver bit actually made him worse and a grakle made him choke as he kept blocking his airway with his tongue 
If you find a cure, please let me know 

Friend thinks a lot of it is due to the fact he isnt truely off my leg and working properly.  Its hard as hes so messy in his mouth, its hard to get any sort of contact as he feels dead in his mouth due to his constant messing.


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## measles (17 October 2011)

Booboos said:



			Lovely horse!

I would get her teeth checked again, sorry but I wouldn't trust previous owners to have done them, people lie all the time! In either case after 5 months she could well be due again.
		
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I can guarantee that she did have her teeth done and as OP says she has the paperwork to prove it  

BoolavogueDC - as the others have suggested I would have her teeth looked at again.   I'm mystified as to why she is doing this after being quiet in the mouth before, so first port of call would be another check up.   Our dentist is great but maybe something has changed or needs attention.   Is there an instructor or someone you trust who could have a look at her bit and how it is sitting in her mouth?   Initially it was sitting low but I agree that it doesn't look to be any more.

Another of the Neue Scheule bits might suit her better now?   Is there bit supplier in your area who could have a look at her?


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## dieseldog (18 October 2011)

Make sure she hasn't got tushes coming through, my horse changed overnight when his appeared, went very flappy with his head and drawing his tongue back constantly.  He was 6 too.


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## Ranyhyn (18 October 2011)

Thanks everyone 

Ok so we'll start with dentist.  Once that's ruled out I am due to start having lessons soon so can chat it out with someone who can get their hands on it - and see what they think!  As I say, she's such a straight horse, I'd like to rule out outside influences before I believe its her being a naughty pudding.

 at what point did I become a rose-tinted-glasses "mum"?...sigh


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## Booboos (18 October 2011)

measles said:



			I can guarantee that she did have her teeth done and as OP says she has the paperwork to prove it 

Click to expand...

Ooops, sorry Measles, I didn't realise the horse came from you!!! I had no intention to suggest YOU had lied about her teeth!!! Just meant it as a general observation about previous owners cost-cutting techniques!


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## charleysummer (18 October 2011)

Mine does this too but she gets her tongue over the bit and hangs the tongue of of her mouth- I put it down to nervousness and she did it when two very scary cows moved next door to the manege and she was running around everywhere like an idiot hanging her tongue out (and i read somewhere its linked to nerves at times) she kept doing it despite teeth checks and flash noseband - i just took this off again as I hate them anyway. As she has made friends with the cows she has stopped doing it.


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## Andalusianlover (18 October 2011)

Mine used to do it so he now wears a drop noseband!  Works a treat!


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## DarkHorseB (18 October 2011)

Most younger horses should have their teeth checked every six months. By younger I would mean until 7 or 8 when there adult mouth is settled. Older horses teeth don't change or grow as much but my horse has had his teeth checked six monthly since I got him as rising 5 year old.


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## Dizzydancer (18 October 2011)

well my TB does this its so annoying he has to be ridden in a flash which i dont like but once he gets his tongue over bit he just goes off on one like he panics!! He does the same as someone elses though just draws his tongue back and i think it pops over without meaning to. His flash is not done up incredibly tight as this i think is his stress relief opening his mouth as he is being retrained at the mo, however if my boy went with his mouth like yours in first pic id be happy at moment he goes round smiling!! It is going to be fin doing dressage with a smiley horsey!!


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## SpottedCat (18 October 2011)

The cute beige one started doing this after I sold him - he too had had his teeth done etc. She overcame it with the help of an instructor and we think it was anxiety on his part couple with a change in the style of riding (as you'd expect with any new rider) - only took a few lessons and he stopped again, so I personally wouldn't panic about it. He's 6 too...


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## KatB (18 October 2011)

Godders went through exactly this stage too. I took him out of a lozenged bit as they sit lower in their mouth, and put him in a straight bar nathe for a while which had less "fiddle" potential! He soon forgot about it and wa sfine to go back into allsorts of bits afterwards with no problems


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