# Suitable stallions?



## KimberleyH (11 June 2011)

Hello, 

I'm thinking about putting my 16hh mare into foal next summer and it'll be her first foal. She's got pretty good breeding lines so we want to breed her with something else with a great pedigree, preferably not too old and somewhere nearer the south west /midlands.

Breeding with something that can jump would be massively preferable. Also, her sire was notes for his ill temperament, something I've seen flares of in her, so the stallion would ideally not be volatile! 

If anyone can recommend a stallion or a stud in that general area of the country i'd be really grateful! 

Thank you!!


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## dianchi (11 June 2011)

Um breeding of your mare, type your looking for would be good.

Are you wanting to do natural cover? You might be limited as apposed to AI


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## KimberleyH (11 June 2011)

She's a bit of a mixed bag, her dam is selle francaise though and her sire is Pouchka III, I can't seem to find out what his breeding is though.

Looking for something with a bit of arab possibly, as long as its not something not too chunky, but not really too fussy, it just really has to have good lines and have been reasonably successful. Something between 15.3hh and 16.2hh, nothing too big! 

I don't really know the main advantages with live cover and AI, probably AI though as I'm not sure her temperament would really suit live cover! 
Thanks a lot


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## jcwh (11 June 2011)

Pouchka III is also Selle Francaise http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=764684

doesn't seem to be a mixed bag if her dam is SF as well. what's her Dam's breeding like?
what are you aiming to breed? an allrounder or a jumper? if her temperament isn't good then watch that foal doesn't pick that up either.


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## KimberleyH (11 June 2011)

Thanks for finding that out, maybe that was what I was thinking of when I said selle francaise!  

Dont know an awful lot about her dam, but her dam's sire was Demonstrator. 

Looking for progeny to event. 

Is there anything I can do to prepare my mare for going into foal? Should I have her quite fit and strong, or maybe have been turned away for a few months so is more docile? 

Does anyone know if there is significant difference in the build of the foal at birth depending if its sire was of bigger or finer build? We we're tending towards something more lightweight and fine to try and make her first pregnancy less stressful and unpleasant, will this make a difference?

Thank you!


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## the watcher (11 June 2011)

I know he has been mentioned on another thread but you could look at Valesco who stands at Equine Reproduction near Reading, he is a successful Selle Francais stallion who was a Grade A showjumper and also gained points in dressage who might well fit the bill for you


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## gossipgirl (11 June 2011)

hi in the south west there is a good stud called grafham stud where the famous jumbo stands. also there are other quality stallions which are advanced and them being Breif Encounter, Jigilo and Wish Upon a Star who is by the late Gribaldi. 

www.grafhamstud.com


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## Touchwood (12 June 2011)

If your mare has Demonstrator lines and you are looking at breeding an eventer, you reallly need to be looking at something Thoroughbred or close to TB if you want enough blood to go eventing.  Demonstrator is a big old fashioned boy (I have a mare who has him as a grandsire - like yours) and this comes through, so you must make sure you add enough blood!


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## JanetGeorge (12 June 2011)

Touchwood said:



			If your mare has Demonstrator lines and you are looking at breeding an eventer, you reallly need to be looking at something Thoroughbred or close to TB if you want enough blood to go eventing.
		
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Like Esteban, perhaps!  Not quite South West - even by my geographical standards  - but close enough.  And with chilled semen available, does it matter?

He's not in the UK yet but will be very soon!  You'll need to Google him for the owner's website - it's blocked here.

I think he would be very near the top of my list for a TB eventing sire.


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## tristar (12 June 2011)

you say you would like some arab, take a look at anglo-arabs via the arab horse society gb, look at the 3/4 tb 1/4 arab type, they improve on the french horses, infact are incorporated in the s. f. stud book, and compete at very top level eventing produce lighterweight, galloping horses with very nice heads! and improve on warmblood soundness


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## cruiseline (12 June 2011)

Future Illusion or if you want to keep to the WB lines El Thuder are two I would consider.


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## Thistle (12 June 2011)

cruiseline said:



			Future Illusion or if you want to keep to the WB lines El Thuder are two I would consider.
		
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Future Illusion has Demonstrator on his dam side, otherwise he would be perfect.


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## Thistle (12 June 2011)

How much Arab do yoiu want to add. I believe Mill Law is 1/8 Arab, otherwise anything with TB or Trak carries alot of Arab, as do many Selle Francais.

If you want to go 1/2 Arab Tobago is stunning.


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## htobago (12 June 2011)

Thistle said:



			How much Arab do yoiu want to add. I believe Mill Law is 1/8 Arab, otherwise anything with TB or Trak carries alot of Arab, as do many Selle Francais.

If you want to go 1/2 Arab Tobago is stunning.
		
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Thanks Thistle! Even I hadn't thought of my boy, as Kimberley didn't sound as though she was thinking of a pure-bred Arab. Also, Tobago is only just 15.2, and she said she was looking for 15.3 to 16.2. 

It sounds as though a TB, Anglo-Arab or possibly Trakehner would be the best choice, but I'm hopeless at this sort of thing without seeing a photo of the mare - do you have photo you could post Kimberley?


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## magic104 (12 June 2011)

KimberleyH said:



			Hello, 

I'm thinking about putting my 16hh mare into foal next summer and it'll be her first foal. She's got pretty good breeding lines so we want to breed her with something else with a great pedigree, preferably not too old and somewhere nearer the south west /midlands.

Unless you want to visit the stallion location is not an issue not with AI

Breeding with something that can jump would be massively preferable. Also, her sire was notes for his ill temperament, something I've seen flares of in her, so the stallion would ideally not be volatile! - Looking for something with a bit of arab possibly, as long as its not something not too chunky, but not really too fussy, it just really has to have good lines and have been reasonably successful. Something between 15.3hh and 16.2hh, nothing too big! 

At what level?  This would narrow down any Arabs or AA's more luck with a PB

She's a bit of a mixed bag, her dam is selle francaise though and her sire is Pouchka III, I can't seem to find out what his breeding is though.

I don't really know the main advantages with live cover and AI, probably AI though as I'm not sure her temperament would really suit live cover! 
Thanks a lot 

AI opens up the use of stallions outside the UK as well as the other end of the country.  A photo of the mare would be more helpful, or an idea of what you are trying to improve on her, along with a full pedigree (so people dont offer stallions too closely related)
		
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## eventrider23 (12 June 2011)

Would agree with CL that if you want to keep the WB then a WB who is proving himself again and again in comp and has a high % of TB blood in him is El Thuder.  Very blood himself and all his foals are likewise.  I now have a granddaughter of his and a client with one as well and both have inherited the blood.

If you want TB there is always Primitive Academy from Louella, who is proving to come from a very good damline with his maternal sister being now a multiple race winner and his half brother also being run on as a stallion prospect.  He himself is a race winner and just a super example of a TB.  Otherwise Louella also has Primitive Proposal and others.  Not to mention the other super TB sires around the UK.


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## cruiseline (12 June 2011)

Thistle said:



			Future Illusion has Demonstrator on his dam side, otherwise he would be perfect.
		
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Oh yes forgot about that, thank you for reminding me.


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## LEC (12 June 2011)

What about Persiflage? He is part arab and has Primative Rising. I really like the look of his stock.
http://www.biddesdenstud.co.uk/10632.html


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## KimberleyH (12 June 2011)

Thanks to everyone for their suggestion, incredibly helpful!

I haven't got any decent photos of her, I'll take on this weekend and upload when next near a computer. 

She's about 16hh, she's dark bay with white blaze down her face. I'd describe her as quite heavy up her front end, she's got a massive neck and really well build shoulders. Probably wouldn't want something quite as chunky as this up the front end.

I'd like something i'd be able to compete at CCI */** at least?

Sounds like something arab or part arab would be best due to her big boned frame, and if I wanted to event. 

This is proving to be a huge learning curve, so many options out there!!!


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## eventrider23 (12 June 2011)

If it is Arab or PBA you want my picks would be:

htobago
Persiflage and co at Biddesden (2 additional Arab's/PB)


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## chrissie1 (12 June 2011)

cruiseline said:



			Oh yes forgot about that, thank you for reminding me.
		
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 The Demosntrator is a long way back from FI.  

His dam, F.  Illicit Affair, is by The Outlaw.  

The Outlaw was by Criminal Law, and out of a Demonstrator mare, so not a high % of Dennis in FI from that angle.


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## KimberleyH (21 June 2011)

Thanks everyone so much for your help! This is what my mare looks like, awful photo but you her front end, she's got a really strong neck. 

That said, struggling to upload the photo onto here..... Just a moment.

Nope, no idea how to upload a photo .....


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## KimberleyH (21 June 2011)

I was looking at Valesco however there is a common ancestor of Ibrahim and Osyrus, whose progeny was Elf II however I think they also produced Elf III and thats my mare's paternal grand sire. Thanks for trying though.


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## magic104 (22 June 2011)

If you want to look at something with more arab how about
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_40415.html thought the video put me off this horse when I was looking at AA's & PBA's.
or
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_36999.html Marcus Aurelius

http://www.performancearabians.com/home.htm

http://www.zayinarabianstud.co.uk/zayin-arabian-stud-links.htm#uk


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## KimberleyH (31 March 2012)

So...after a talk with my instructor, and given my mares nature, we're thinking

- nothing warmblood
- pony stallion
- something that loves jumping


 Thanks everyone for your  help!


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## koeffee (1 April 2012)

Have Pm'd you


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## volatis (1 April 2012)

So are you looking to significantly reduce height by going to a pony stallion, and why does your instructor say no warmblood? That seems a strangly sweeping statement to make. What is the significant fact about your mares temperament that makes your instructor say that?


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## lilly1 (1 April 2012)

AA stud in the West Midlands - http://www.sunrayangloarabianstud.co.uk/stallions.htm 
We have bred 3 over the years from this stud.  A lot of stock around local to me and all I've seen are very nice sorts.


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## pintoarabian (1 April 2012)

Magic104 posted a link to our stud where we stand a range of stallions with Arabian blood, bred to perform. For details, please PM me.


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## KimberleyH (4 April 2012)

....that she's a little bit difficult to handle sometimes! She needs calming down, she's doing her best all of the time but I think I got her too late in her life and at the wrong time in mine to have done anything serious with her. She's about 16hh so something a little smaller would suit me much better. 

Thanks for all the suggestions


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## crazycoloured (4 April 2012)

KimberleyH said:



			....that she's a little bit difficult to handle sometimes! She needs calming down, she's doing her best all of the time but I think I got her too late in her life and at the wrong time in mine to have done anything serious with her. She's about 16hh so something a little smaller would suit me much better

sorry to sound negative but from your post above i would buy something rather than breed from your mare.if your mare is a little hot this could be passed on to your foal which you wouldnt want..there are many nice youngsters for sale that would fit your bill...
		
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## Faberge (4 April 2012)

crazycoloured said:



			sorry to sound negative but from your post above i would buy something rather than breed from your mare.if your mare is a little hot this could be passed on to your foal which you wouldnt want..there are many nice youngsters for sale that would fit your bill...
		
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Agree with this - if she has no proven competition record and can be tricky you'd be better off buying something.


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## magic104 (4 April 2012)

I would buy, but if you insist on breeding look at the natives like a Conni.  Avoid Welsh D's as they can be sensitive even PB's in the wrong hands, more so then the other natives.  

Loading photos is easy especially as there is a step by step guide in photo galary.


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## KimberleyH (8 April 2012)

You're entitled to your opinions and any advice you wish to give, but it would be more constructive if anyone knows of websites pointing me towards competition studs they would recommend, or horses they thing I should take a look at, as I will be breeding from my mare. 

Many thanks


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## Sportznight (8 April 2012)

http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/


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## Hollycatt (8 April 2012)

Well I am prejudiced of course!  But if you want arab blood to event I would go with shagya blood as it has been used very successfully in trakehner and other warmblood breeding at world class level - Windfall, Sixtus, Habicht,  etc all carry shagya blood from Lapis. This is a list of stallions avaliable via AI http://www.moellgaard.dk/English/Horses/Shagyas/Shagya_AI_Stallionslist.htm

I find shagya's very trainable and not hot, but they can be sensitive so if your mare is hot ...........


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## magic104 (9 April 2012)

KimberleyH said:



			You're entitled to your opinions and any advice you wish to give, but it would be more constructive if anyone knows of websites pointing me towards competition studs they would recommend, or horses they thing I should take a look at, as I will be breeding from my mare. 

Many thanks 

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It is no good taking that attitude as it is responsible breeding that has promoted the response & your lack of photos do not help.  If you are serious about breeding & really want constructive advise then post photos of the mare.  Otherwise it is worthless advice & just based on what a person likes.

It annoys me immensely when people insist on asking for "which stallion" but put no photo, little info on the breeding or what it is they want to try & breed.  The amount of owners who think their mares have fab conformation when in reality they are full of faults is amazing.


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## Faberge (9 April 2012)

magic104 said:



			It is no good taking that attitude as it is responsible breeding that has promoted the response & your lack of photos do not help.  If you are serious about breeding & really want constructive advise then post photos of the mare.  Otherwise it is worthless advice & just based on what a person likes.

It annoys me immensely when people insist on asking for "which stallion" but put no photo, little info on the breeding or what it is they want to try & breed.  The amount of owners who think their mares have fab conformation when in reality they are full of faults is amazing.
		
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This x 100. 
Sounds like your motivations are all wrong and it's this sort of breeding/attitude that's such a huge contributing factor to so many of today's problems in the sector.


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## SueBrowne (9 April 2012)

I have PM'd you.


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## amy_b (10 April 2012)

http://www.meadowstud.com/romulus.html


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## KimberleyH (10 April 2012)

With the greatest respect, and as previously requested, please cease the negativity. Your comments have been read and noted, but there is nothing wrong with my ' motivation' and 'responsibility'. Furthermore, your comments which in some places are verging on rudeness, will certainly not be influencing any decisions i make with regards to breeding. 

Thank you for the links to the studs and the PM Sue.


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## magic104 (11 April 2012)

KimberleyH said:



			With the greatest respect, and as previously requested, please cease the negativity. Your comments have been read and noted, but there is nothing wrong with my ' motivation' and 'responsibility'. Furthermore, your comments which in some places are verging on rudeness, will certainly not be influencing any decisions i make with regards to breeding. 

Thank you for the links to the studs and the PM Sue.
		
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It is not negativity or rude, there is no photo of the mare, so how on earth are people meant to give decent advice on stallion suggestions?  The mare is the most important ingredient to the whole process.  Just because you have a mare that is the reason to breed, there is a hell of a lot more to it then that.


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## KimberleyH (11 April 2012)

You are right about the photo, and I'm sorry I couldn't provide one.  
I'm grateful for the interest taken in this thread and any suggestions people have been able to make. 

There's been a slight change of plan as to the stallions we're looking at. It'll be her first, so foal might be a bit small, so no longer looking at pony stallions. This, coupled with the tendency to throw out slightly smaller foals (i've done my research!) means we're looking for something up to 16.1hh. 

I've shortlisted a couple;
Mill Law
Billy Mexico
Welton Adonis

In terms of looks of the stallion, my father is really hoping for something with a large head. Strong believer in the large head = large brain hypothesis. Ideally the stallion would have some sort of competition history. My mare has a very chunky neck, something we don't want to lose when breeding if possible. If you look at demonstrator, you're basically looking at her. I've a photo of each of them, turning the same amount, and they look identical!


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## KimberleyH (11 April 2012)

so thats pretty much what my mare looks like, although this is actually a photo of the beautiful Demonstrator.


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## Asha (11 April 2012)

Hi Kimbereley, if thats what she looks like wow, shes a stunner.

but what people need to see to be able to give good solid advice is a conformation shot of your mare. That way the people on here who have loads of experience can advise you on which stallions can improve on your mare.

Good luck and hope all goes well. 

Let us now which you use, and also next year dont forget to post pictures of baby


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## KimberleyH (11 April 2012)

Ok, i hope this works...... this is just a head shot but i adore this mare to pieces and I think she looks beautiful.


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## cruiseline (11 April 2012)

As others have stated, it would be almost impossible for anyone on here to give you an answer to your question 'Suitable Stallions' without seeing your mare! We can tell you which stallions we think might add what you are looking for, but we don't know what your mare will bring to the mix.

As you have now worked out how to post photos, would it be possible to see one of your mare, as there are many super stallions in the UK to choose from.

Edited to say, we posted at the same time 

She looks very nice, but a stood up conformations shot would be more helpful


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## KimberleyH (11 April 2012)

And another photo! This was taken last summer 
I've been against uploading photos due to copyright so please don't spread the photos, and also if making some sort of comment, keep it constructive and not hurtful, it'd be like me insulting how a child of yours might look!


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## cruiseline (11 April 2012)

She is a nice stamp of mare, my daughter's ex international show jumper was by Puchka, so I know what you mean when you say temperament must be considered   I would say if you are looking to event, then you have to go either full TB or very near full on her, or you might end up with something still a little too chunky.

So you need to find a TB with a big head 

She looks bigger than 16 hands in that photo, either that or the rider is a little person


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## KimberleyH (11 April 2012)

Thanks, and its nice to meet someone who understands the temperament thing! 
I'll measure her soon but i'm pretty sure she's 16hh.....prepare for me to eat my words...!

I thought Mill Law might be good, he's mostly TB. 

Keep the comments coming!!


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## cruiseline (11 April 2012)

KimberleyH said:



			Thanks, and its nice to meet someone who understands the temperament thing!
		
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When ever I come across a horse by Pouchka, it always reminds me of that nursery rhyme 

"There was a little girl, who had a little curl, right in the middle of her forehead .....................................................


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## Amymay (11 April 2012)

Lovely mare.  No suggestions on stallions, I'm afraid.  But good luck with your plans for breeding.


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## KimberleyH (11 April 2012)

We just measured her and she came out at 158cm, so just over 15.2hh, however i'm not entirley sure whoever was measuring her was doing it right.....will try again tomorrow!


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## s4sugar (11 April 2012)

KimberleyH said:



			And another photo! This was taken last summer 
I've been against uploading photos due to copyright so please don't spread the photos, and also if making some sort of comment, keep it constructive and not hurtful, it'd be like me insulting how a child of yours might look!
		
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A proper, sideways on, conformation picture showing her limbs, feet & back would help. This photo does not flatter her and makes her look a cut n shut. Put your finger over the middle / rider and the two ends look like they are from different horses.

If your Dad wants a big head try a Dales? - won't be what you want but a big head on a fine horse doesn't work


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## magic104 (11 April 2012)

Well she is no weed!  I agree with Cruise, a good moving TB if you want the offspring to event.  Some of Demonstrators offspring could be difficult so it may have come from sire & dam, the difficult temperment.  She also looks bigger then 15.2hh but that might be because she is a deep bodied mare & the rider is leaning over.

Do you know what your budget is?


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## KimberleyH (11 April 2012)

Thanks for the positive comments. I hope the following photo is of use, its the best I can find:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/28090_10150215205020054_6487551_n.jpg


Price range is about £600 give or take. Was looking for chilled semen as thought frozen semen will be significantly less fertile than chilled? Please correct me if i'm wrong though.


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## KimberleyH (11 April 2012)

And yes, we're pretty sure she was measured incorrectly, but don't think she's bigger than 16hh


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## magic104 (11 April 2012)

Frozen is not recommended for the older mare, but is fine (my mare took 2nd time frozen) for those under 16yrs.  It is not impossible just needs managing & has a shorter window when inseminating.  

Revoultion is full TB who has some 4yos out eventing in BYEH classes, along with his stallion son Sir Suave.  Primitive Proposal has already been mentioned.  Power Blade is another one to look at.


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## tristar (12 April 2012)

hello kim, as you are midlands, have you had a look at sunray stud,? they breed anglo-arabs and part breds, they have many years of breeding under their belts and many national champion  stallions, assuming you are really looking around at all possibilities, could be worth a look, your foal would be around 1/4 arab and with due due respect as she is a mixed bag, could pull the whole thing together, many top performers are part arab, including warmbloods, but its not often acknowleged. good luck


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## maestro (12 April 2012)

If you go to Twemlows open day next Sunday 22 April you will see Revolution, Mill Law and my own Weston Justice all under one roof.  Hopefully there will be loots of breeders there so you can learn lots about them


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## Hollyanna (12 April 2012)

I like Unbelievable Darco:

http://www.brendonstud.com/undarco.htm

Friend of mine has lovely youngster by him and he has a lovely temperament.  Also, Libra K is lovely too, sane and nice all rounder! 

http://www.stallionai.co.uk/stallions/librak/


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## KimberleyH (12 April 2012)

I don't think I can make it due to other commitments, but am hoping to visit before the open day if thats a possibility, but thank you for the suggestions!


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## KimberleyH (12 April 2012)

I can't believe what a journey this has all been for me! I've spent almost one year researching a stallion and i'm nearly there with the decision.

Here are a few names of horses we hope to look at, if you've anything to add to them you think I should know, please give me a shout. Similarly, anything similar to them you think I should know about, also shout! 

And thanks everyone for your help, I'm really grateful.  

Mill Law
Rainbow High
Revolution
Windsor Heights
Weston Justice
Broadstone West Country


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## Sportznight (12 April 2012)

Will PM you about a couple of those and limb correctness!


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## christine48 (12 April 2012)

Nice mare but a little upright in the hocks and could do with  more front. Try and pick a stallion to improve on these. A TB or Anglo/ PBA or arab w ould definitely refine her too.
Forget about trying to breed a big head though!


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## KimberleyH (13 April 2012)

I think we've narrowed it down a little more:

Rainbow High 
Windsor Heights
Mill Law
Weston Justice

Out of the above, without actually visiting them, i'm trying to assess which has achieved the most, which has the best pedigree, and which has the best conformation. 
I spoke to my vet today about AI and getting things started, to which she turned to my horse and said '' You're going to have a little foal-y!'' I think the ''foal fever'' and excitement is spreading!


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## magic104 (16 April 2012)

KimberleyH said:



			I think we've narrowed it down a little more:

Rainbow High 
Windsor Heights - Dam had 2 1/2 sisters who evented Nov - His offspring are probably too young to evaluate him as a stallion
Mill Law - Has has some very good mares who have helped boost his profile.  He himself gained respect as a sporthorse both eventing & dressage
Weston Justice - Seen some younger offspring starting out eventing look to be nice sorts

Out of the above, without actually visiting them, i'm trying to assess which has achieved the most, which has the best pedigree, and which has the best conformation. 
I spoke to my vet today about AI and getting things started, to which she turned to my horse and said '' You're going to have a little foal-y!'' I think the ''foal fever'' and excitement is spreading! 

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Best pedigree?  Mill Law has probably achieved most followed by Weston Justice in eventing.  Conformation needs to have the mare taken into account as the stallion needs to compliment the mare & try & balance her weak areas.


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## KimberleyH (18 April 2012)

We decided to run with Windsor Heights. We went to have a look at him and realised he was plenty big enough, and he was the smallest one we'd shortlisted. 

Thank you everyone


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## KimberleyH (31 October 2013)

Well, he arrived safe and sound back in July! He looks just like his mother and is doing really well at almost 15 weeks old. Very very happy


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## Meowy Catkin (31 October 2013)

Photos?


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## christine48 (2 November 2013)

Tamorillo was Anglo Arab, and an Anglo Arab came 2nd at Pau 4* last weekend.


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## KimberleyH (25 November 2013)

I'll upload a few things, go take a look!  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLgD_Q2poro


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## KimberleyH (25 November 2013)

Another video - he's around a similar age to the first video: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XggUeP81Ku8


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## KimberleyH (25 November 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...145053.-2207520000.1385394310.&type=3&theater

I'll make this facebook album public for a few weeks. If people want to see photos after that, PM me and i'll change it back for you to see


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## Meowy Catkin (25 November 2013)

lovely!


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## KimberleyH (26 November 2013)

I'd like to add that I made that little green rug  

(Thank you for putting his photo on here  )


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## Meowy Catkin (26 November 2013)

No problem. 

I'm very impressed with your rug making skills.


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## Hollycatt (1 December 2013)

Thanks for posting an update on your foal. Its always nice to see how things turn out. You must be over the moon. Congrats - he is lovely


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