# Banning the Trimming of Whiskers



## MillionDollar (24 June 2011)

So in Pammy Hutton's column in H&H she says they are thinking about banning the trimming of whiskers (in Dressage). I agree with her, I know the pros and cons, and evryone has their own opinion but like she says, does a man use his beard to see in the dark!?!?

I personally do trim all whiskers and never had a problem. So what are your thoughts?


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## Miss L Toe (24 June 2011)

Men are fools, look at the new Andy Murray look, its pathetic.
Horses are  not men however, and spend 12 hours a day in the dark, my boy is kept "au naturalle" as nature intended, and as for baby oil, don't start me!


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## dieseldog (24 June 2011)

Really?  Its not 1st April is it?

If the worse thing that happens to a horse is that it has its whiskers trimmed its a lucky horse - nice that BD are concentrating on the real welfare issues in their sport.

It's not really true though, is it?


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## MistletoeMegan (24 June 2011)

MillionDollar said:



			So in Pammy Hutton's column in H&H she says they are thinking about banning the trimming of whiskers (in Dressage). I agree with her, I know the pros and cons, and evryone has their own opinion but like she says, does a man use his beard to see in the dark!?!?

I personally do trim all whiskers and never had a problem. So what are your thoughts?
		
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Whilst women are often (rightly ) derogatory about men, I don't think the male/beard comparison used has any merit - men may drag their knuckles on the floor but they generally tend not to sense their food and water with their chin 

Given how horses see, I think it does help them to keep their whiskers. I didn't encounter problems with the show horses, but I have heard and read of horses who develop sensitivity and headshaking after having their whiskers removed.

Whilst I do prefer the clean outline of a shaved face, it makes so little difference to a test that I can't see why so many dressage horses have them trimmed, given the disadvantages. I agree that the overall appearance can influence results, but I also think that if a judge has sufficient time to notice the length of your horses' whiskers and hold a strong opinion either way then the test is either going so brilliantly well that it won't matter, or the test is such a disaster that it likewise doesn't matter 

Having said that I do hate a horse with a moustache


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## classicalfan (24 June 2011)

Thank God!  Someone is actually thinking up there!  
It's about tiem the horse world stopped thinking about how a horse looks and gave more thought to how they feel.


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## dressagecrazy (24 June 2011)

Ive not trimmed any whiskers for many years now as it started to feel odd to do it as they are there for a reason, however i never had a problem when i did trim them.

It makes no differance to me if they ban it because i already dont do it, i dont pass judgement on those who do though as in my mind much worse things are done to horses in this world than trimming whiskers.


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## teagreen (24 June 2011)

I don't really do dressage, but we have shown since the 1970's and trimmed the whiskers of every single show horse and pony - and not one of them has EVER had any sort of problem, both in the stable or in the field. Crazy idea. 

People recoil in horror when I tell them that our plaited horses have their ears trimmed too - but again, not one has ever had a problem.

I haven't read the comments, however surely if we were seeing horses with facial injuries or looking distressed who were minus whiskers, we should ban it. But I don't think I've ever seen a horse who is bumping around the stable/the show ring or looking bothered in the slightest both at home or during competition who has it's whiskers trimmed.


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## Addicted to Hunting (24 June 2011)

I also thought maybe it's April fools day as well DD ;p

I know that alot of people do leave them on, but I always take my horses off and can't say they keep walking into things, and I work with show and hunt horses as well, all clean shaven and they also seem to be fine. If turned away then yes I let them grow along with coat mane etc.
If they start with banning trimming whiskers it may well end up going down the route of no clipping as after all their natural coat is a good barrier, and also some people argue that plaiting restricts them so no plaiting, and also maybe we shouldn't pull their manes and tails as this is also protection, or is this taking it too far??
Clean shaven look all the way here!!


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## wench (24 June 2011)

who cares?


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## Lolo (24 June 2011)

This reminds me oddly of how money is pumped into the NHS to make the food better when there are so many other bigger issues that need the help- but food is easy to fix so they look at that...

Bit mad really. How are they going to police it? "Oh sorry, you're immaculately kept horse is eliminated because you've trimmed him up a bit" isn't going to go down well with anyone!


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## MillionDollar (24 June 2011)

dieseldog said:



			Really?  Its not 1st April is it?

If the worse thing that happens to a horse is that it has its whiskers trimmed its a lucky horse - nice that BD are concentrating on the real welfare issues in their sport.

It's not really true though, is it?
		
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It's not BD, it's the FEI!!!!!


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## MillionDollar (24 June 2011)

wench said:



			who cares?
		
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I don't actually 'care' and if they do ban it I won't 'care', I just won't trim, but I just thought it would be interesting to see what others thought. After all this is a forum!!!!


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## TuscanBunnyGirl (24 June 2011)

Hmm  I used to compete before so whiskers off, feathers off, manes pulled, tails trimmed, ears trimmed etc

However, at the moment, I'm not competing so everyyything stays on  Manes and all because although I do they they look a bit scraggy at least they keep the flies off etc  For now mine are being real horses  They'll get a shock as soon as i get those scissors out  haha

But gonig back to the topic I think I'm going to start leaving whiskers on...they're there for a reason...but that's just my opinion..tbh they look a lot better without them 
xx


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## nikkimariet (24 June 2011)

Such a bizzare issue..... Aren't there bigger and more important things going on that needs sorting?!! Would like to read on how they plan on implementing and upholding this ban!

We have always trimmed whiskers on everything (except welsh sec B I had when I was teeny). Are currently letting them grow back to see if a difference with headshaking (flies/pollen) will be made. Must add that Bruce is not as severe as he usually is by this time of year, and I am not having to ride him in a nosenet 24/7 as is usual by this stage with Bruce.

Much prefer horses without them though!


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## TarrSteps (24 June 2011)

Well, there are already all sorts of unimportant things "banned" in dressage, just by default.  You can't ride without a noseband (my personal pet peeve), you can't use a bit with any tongue relief (which I'm not convinced is about "correct contact"), you can't ride in most classes in purple boots, you can't dye any part of the horse (which Pammy also discussed not long ago). . . it's just we take all that sort of thing for granted.

The whisker thing seems to be a bigger deal on the Continent, I think because more people DON'T do it.  

It's tricky. I can see why people say there are bigger issues - there are! - but this is an easy one, that's in the horses' best interests.  Okay, maybe it's a sop but how can they uphold the "happy athlete" idea without applying it to everything that can be controlled.  You can't even argue there is any benefit, as you might with medical treatment or corrective shoeing or anything else invasive.

Perhaps part of the thinking is that it makes sure people who DO think it's a humane issue aren't penalised.  This is also part of the banning branding issue - if you just ban it then you remove the argument that doing it benefits some and anyone choosing to not do it on ethical grounds has to do so at a personal cost.  If it's just not allowed then no one has to care.


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## Chloe_GHE (24 June 2011)

apart from not being able to 'feel' without whiskers, what are the other problems they think it will cause?...

I don't trim my boys, never really occured to me. I trim ear fluff, bridle paths etc, but not whiskers.

when they say trim, how short do they go? or do they pull them out completely?...


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## Lolo (24 June 2011)

Chloe_GHE said:



			apart from not being able to 'feel' without whiskers, what are the other problems they think it will cause?...

I don't trim my boys, never really occured to me. I trim ear fluff, bridle paths etc, but not whiskers.

*when they say trim, how short do they go? or do they pull them out completely?*...
		
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That's a good point- I assume they mean that you're not allowed a bald muzzle. We also don't trim Reg, simply because he's so ticklish he's on the floor squealing before you get within an inch of his muzzle!

You're not allowed to dye your horse? This is going to sound odd, but how does this affect the horse's welfare?


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## littlemisslauren (24 June 2011)

Chloe_GHE said:



			apart from not being able to 'feel' without whiskers, what are the other problems they think it will cause?...

I don't trim my boys, never really occured to me. I trim ear fluff, bridle paths etc, but not whiskers.

when they say trim, how short do they go? or do they pull them out completely?...
		
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Shaven off


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## cptrayes (24 June 2011)

Someone told me on my branding thread that it is already banned in Germany to trim whiskers, though not to brand.

Some of them do pull them out, as I have heard the advice that they grow more weakly over time.


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## cptrayes (24 June 2011)

TarrSteps said:



			Well, there are already all sorts of unimportant things "banned" in dressage, just by default.  You can't ride without a noseband (my personal pet peeve), you can't use a bit with any tongue relief (which I'm not convinced is about "correct contact"),
		
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neue schule verbindend bradoon and warmblood weymouth both have no tongue pressure at all and are dressage legal if you need a set that are.


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## TarrSteps (24 June 2011)

Sorry, not being difficult but how does the verbindand not sit on the tongue?  It's just a snaffle with no port, just a different configuration.  My point was only that nothing with a port is legal, but there isn't really a "good" reason for this.  (I'm not saying their should be, btw, just that a rule's a rule and they aren't always as well thought out as people might think.)

Re the dyeing - I'm sure now it's because the horse wouldn't match its passport.  But people used to dye dressage horses all the time, until it was specifically banned.  And they got over it (more or less, I suspect it still gets done) when they couldn't do it anymore, even though they would have considered it "essential" before.

If we're talking welfare rules, there are all sorts, both old an new.  There are rules about how often you can hit a horse (and judges have the power to excuse people if they think they're kicking too much or overusing the whip or spurs), what sort of spurs you can wear, not to mention medication rules and the like.  So we do "ban" all sorts of behaviour, and it's only got more complicated with the rolkuur debate.  I guess another question might be why should they ban some harmful practices and not others?  Of course the answer to that is because eventually you'd have to ban riding . . . 

I'm not just playing Devil's Advocate , I do think this is an easy one to do, there is no good reason NOT to do it, and at least one good reason in favour.  To all the people who do trim, why will it matter if you can't?  I can see if you're also doing showing but how many horses do FEI dressage and show seriously?


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## Thistle (24 June 2011)

Whiskers rule wouldn't affect me, I have NEVER trimmed a horses whiskers, guess that's why we don't 'do' showing.


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## kerilli (24 June 2011)

dressagecrazy said:



			Ive not trimmed any whiskers for many years now as it started to feel odd to do it as they are there for a reason, however i never had a problem when i did trim them.

It makes no differance to me if they ban it because i already dont do it, i dont pass judgement on those who do though as in my mind much worse things are done to horses in this world than trimming whiskers.
		
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ditto. i never trim them, but there are a lot of far more important subjects to get your knickers in a knot about when it comes to horse welfare...


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## NicoleS_007 (24 June 2011)

Lol what a bizarre rule (if implemented that is!). Does trimming whiskers really bother people that much!! Oh no they'll be banning the trimming of feathers next   Much prefer them trimmed, looks much smarter imo but tbh i dont care if people dont trim


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## Honey08 (24 June 2011)

I always thought that the whiskers were how they communiate with each other more than for balance (think thats cats...).  TBH a lot of dressage and show horses don't get to go out in a herd anyway!

Personally I don't trim whiskers.  Beards and feathers yes, but I can live with whiskers, even if they don't look quite as "pretty".  I was disgusted reading some "Get ready for the show ring" acticle this spring that had a top level show person getting a horse ready, and they suggested shaving off the eyelashes to make the eye look bigger!!!  That was pretty shocking and un necessary IMO, but then I am not a fan of showing in general, and they can ban the whole lot of it for me (except perhaps WH, which requires a bit of talent!)


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## Girlracer (24 June 2011)

Well that's the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a while. 

Perhaps lets worry about the real welfare issues before we worry about whether a few horses are having their whiskars shaved off... dear me!


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## kirstyhen (24 June 2011)

Just to add, they have conducted experiments on Rabbits and found that each individual whisker has it's own individual section in the brain and although when I was at Uni they hadn't done any horse research, they thought it was a similar case.

I've never trimmed horse's whiskers and don't intend to, however I really don't give a toss about those that do!


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## the ferret (24 June 2011)

hello everyone, the trimming of a horse's whiskers has been banned in my native germany by law (animal welfare act) for many years. it is considered as cruelty to cut or shave them off for the whiskers help the horse to sense/feel an object (for instance when picking up food from the floor etc. or in the dark) before actually touching it hence preventing injury (especially to the eyes). you wouldn't think twice about trimming your cat's or dog's whiskers, would you?


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## angelish (24 June 2011)

i was just about to ask the same question 
i also thought "eh really" when i read that, i don't personally always trim my boys whiskers but did do some showing last year and decided they had to come off to be taking it seriously ,so off they came and i can't say it made any difference what so ever to him apart from make him look much tidier  

tbh i think thats taking things a bit far banning trimming ,there is far worse cruelty in the world


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## teagreen (24 June 2011)

Honey08 said:



			I was disgusted reading some "Get ready for the show ring" acticle this spring that had a top level show person getting a horse ready, and they suggested shaving off the eyelashes to make the eye look bigger!!!  That was pretty shocking and un necessary IMO, but then I am not a fan of showing in general, and they can ban the whole lot of it for me (except perhaps WH, which requires a bit of talent!)
		
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Just to say, what they meant with this article was the long eyelashes above the eye - not the eyelashes like humans have, if that makes sense. I cut off the long eyelashes, but no show producer would ever consider cutting off the actual eyelashes.

I still maintain that it makes little to no difference to a horse. None I have known have ever had a problem, but I appreciate some may be extra sensitive so you do have to be careful. I don't mind if people don't want to, but what I hate is when people have a go at me for doing it, going for the whole cruelty thing. My horses are completely unbothered.


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## PucciNPoni (24 June 2011)

the ferret said:



			hello everyone, the trimming of a horse's whiskers has been banned in my native germany by law (animal welfare act) for many years. it is considered as cruelty to cut or shave them off for the whiskers help the horse to sense/feel an object (for instance when picking up food from the floor etc. or in the dark) before actually touching it hence preventing injury (especially to the eyes). you wouldn't think twice about trimming your cat's or dog's whiskers, would you?
		
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Actually, as a dog groomer I shave plenty of dog's whiskers off on a regular basis.  I don't think twice of it.  Poodles for example, are shown with clean shaven faces.  Not sure how you'd leave whiskers on while cleaning the face.  However, I'm told that Kennel Club is thinking to ban removing or trimming of whiskers  on shown dogs in the UK.  Not sure how one would show traditionally groom poodles, chinese crested, bichon frise, portugese water dogs (for a start).  Anyway, not exactly on topic is it...sorry for the digression.


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## kirstyhen (24 June 2011)

Actually, maybe that's why I never trim my horses' whiskers - When I was little I cut my Cat's whiskers off and I got such a rollicking off my Mum!! 

Although like PucciNPony, I regularly clip dogs' whiskers off when I'm grooming, but can't say I would just randomly chop my dog's whiskers off!


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## georgiaziggy (24 June 2011)

My pet hate is cut whiskers! Once had my horse clipped by someone else while I was away and when I returned to find her face whisker-less I could have cried! Bit dramatic but i do love her whiskers!


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## Worried1 (24 June 2011)

God help us! Next up we will be banned from riding horses!


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## Vodkagirly (24 June 2011)

Got my first dressage competition tomorrow (unaffiliated) had to give up half way trimming his whiskers as he wasn't settled. Was going to have another go in the morning. I've always done it before and never considered it cruel. Now thanks to this thread I can leave it in the morning and not feel scruffy 
Now if someone can advise plaiting is cruel and about to be banned I would be even more grateful


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## kerilli (24 June 2011)

kirstyhen said:



			Actually, maybe that's why I never trim my horses' whiskers - When I was little I cut my Cat's whiskers off and I got such a rollicking off my Mum!! 

Although like PucciNPony, I regularly clip dogs' whiskers off when I'm grooming, but can't say I would just randomly chop my dog's whiskers off! 

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i cut my boxer dog's whiskers off when i was very small, and got SUCH a rollicking from the vet (who noticed instantly) and then my mum (who had to put up with the vet's disapproval).
i never touch my horses' whiskers any more, i much prefer them _au naturale _, but i know people who shave them every week.


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## FMM (24 June 2011)

One of the big differences between dressage and showing is the type of horse that completes at TOP level in those disciplines.

For example, most warmbloods do not get a lot of hair in their ears and around their face.

But take a look at this horse in full coat 






and then trimmed







(ps - there were about 3 months between each of the photos above)

You cannot compete on a show cob that is invisible under its beard, ear hair and sundry other common hairy bits!

We have had our horses trimmed all over for many years and they all, without fail, manage to find their buckets, feed, avoid trees, live out at night (yes, in the dark) without bumping into each other, go out with several other horses and seem to survive without any problems at all.  

So no - I don't agree that trimming is cruel.  I assume you all (well, most of you) remove hair from your legs, eyebrows and other places?  Presumably that is also there for a reason ....  ?


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## Halfstep (24 June 2011)

I tend to trim whiskers to around half an inch just for neatness, rather than taking them off completely. 

However, each to his own. Horses don't seem to care either way. I don't show, so don't really feel the need to trim them completely. Surely, surely, the FEI has FAR worst issues to deal with????!!!!????!!!!


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## FMM (24 June 2011)

FMM said:








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By the way - I reckon the man in the white jumper works for the FEI and was saying "OMG - that horse has had its ears trimmed ...."

Or maybe he was yawning ...


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## cptrayes (24 June 2011)

TarrSteps said:



			Sorry, not being difficult but how does the verbindend not sit on the tongue?  It's just a snaffle with no port, just a different configuration.
		
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Have you got one? It is made so bent that when it comes into contact with the bars the middle rises into a port which matches the port on a warmblood weymouth and removes all pressure from the tongue. It is not "just" a snaffle with no port, it is radically different in its action in the mouth than any other single jointed snaffle.


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## Shilasdair (24 June 2011)

I disagree with trimming whiskers, but only whiskers. 

 I don't care if you shave off all the rest of the non-sensitive hairs (as long as you don't allow your horse/pony to get cold).
I'd maybe be a bit careful about how much ear hair you remove - external stray hairs only, perhaps, so the horse doesn't get bothered by insects, but apart from that, shave away!
S 

PS FMM, you did make me laugh.


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## Louby (24 June 2011)

I cut off the whiskers of my last horse having done it on previous horses with no problems at all and it was awful.  It was like she was getting electric shocks everytime she touched something, she wouldnt eat, was distressed and was sort of shocked.  My friend said I needed to get the vet as she was so distressed.  I didnt as there wasnt really much he could do as it wasnt like he could stick them on again.  She did calm down and start to eat later on but I felt terrible and never touched them again and havent touched my current horses either.


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## Ranyhyn (24 June 2011)

FMM I think he was muchos impressed by your horse  maybe he'd seen the before picture


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## Hollyloveponies (24 June 2011)

Defoooo agree they look sooooo soooo much smarter with there whiskers trimmed!!!!!


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## MillionDollar (24 June 2011)

I agree they do look so much smarter with them off!


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## MillionDollar (24 June 2011)

Oh yes and I definitely definitely agree there are a million things the FEI should sort out before even thinkiing about this.............like people have said what next?


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## Roasted Chestnuts (24 June 2011)

Well. Guess thats the end of my stressage adventures then as mine are trimmed for the show ring.

I have never joticed my horses to be uncomfortable or have injuries due to having no whiskers, so they will continue t come off.


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## FrodoBeutlin (25 June 2011)

I am totally in favour of this ban and do hope it is enforced. As TarrSteps has correctly said, trimming whiskers is illegal in certain countries. 

Out of curiosity, when you look at Totilas do you think "Oh my goodness that horse is disgusting, he's got whiskers!"

It seems to me that it has been proven that at least *some* horses react very badly to having their whiskers trimmed and *do* suffer because of that. How do you know your horse isn't one of those? You won't know until you try, and if it does affect your horse, then it's too late until they re-grow again. Why take the risk, for something so vain and shallow?

Of course there are more serious welfare issues. Does this mean we should ignore the 'minor' ones altogether? And we're talking about the FEI here anyway, which is a sports organisation, not an animal welfare one. It seems logical to me that they want to try and cover as many sporthorses-related welfare issues as possible.


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## jaspejoo (25 June 2011)

my horse has had his whiskers trimmed for the last 5 years and he has never had a problem! i can see why you would, and why would wouldn't but i think there are bigger issues that need adressing before the trimming of whiskers!


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## TarrSteps (25 June 2011)

Out of curiosity, how do people KNOW their horses don't feel () the loss of their whiskers?  Their purpose wouldn't be to stop things like horses banging into walls, anyway.  If someone taped gloves on your hands you'd still be able to get through the day but I bet you'd feel the loss of your finer sense of touch.  As kirstyhen pointed out, the whiskers are given a great deal of "brain space" (like tongues and thumbs in people) which the body wouldn't do "just because".  It really isn't the same thing as hair.

And I still don't see how addressing this issue means they aren't addressing other FEI RELATED humane issues?  (Which means, btw, no one is talking about showing or anything other than FEI sports.)  Aside from the fact that almost every other issue is far more complicated.  As FB said, the FEI's mandate does not cover the humane treatment of horses in anything other than their remit.  This seems an easy thing to be seen to be doing something about, a very easy one to police and an issue with no negatives and at least one possible positive.   

I don't really see what the big deal is.  It's not exactly a brand new issue and I don't see how making this minor change means they're ignoring more major issues.


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## Mince Pie (25 June 2011)

I'm confused, is it banned completely or can you tidy them up as long as they are still of use to the horse?


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## TarrSteps (25 June 2011)

It isn't anything yet.  And it's only being mentioned with regards to the FEI.


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## mcnaughty (14 December 2012)

Just thought I would resurrect this one to run alonside the Whiskers or not!


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## ILuvCowparsely (14 December 2012)

I used to trim whiskers, then after my first mare had uveitis and my late mare had them removed she would not eat for 4 days after, every time she put face in manger and touched her food with lips, she jerked her head  out again..  Now I refuse to trim any of my horses whiskers just for human vanity. IMO


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## nikkimariet (14 December 2012)

I've actually developed a slight soft spot for Figs whiskers  They're *so* long and snuffly. Kind of cute. Kind of...


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (14 December 2012)

nikkimariet said:



			I've actually developed a slight soft spot for Figs whiskers  They're *so* long and snuffly. Kind of cute. Kind of...
		
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aaaaaaaaaaaand...."wigglewigglewiggle...."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nikkimariet (14 December 2012)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			aaaaaaaaaaaand...."wigglewigglewiggle...."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
		
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Hahaaaaa!


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## Pongwiffy (14 December 2012)

Don't think it needs to be banned - there are bigger fish to fry in terms of animal cruelty! 

Perhaps the practice will die out naturally, as doesn't really serve any purpose - other than appealing to showing judges.  I am sure some people will always think untrimmed whiskers looks untidy which is fair enough but tastes and standards do evolve over time.


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## humblepie (14 December 2012)

I show so they are trimmed.    Strangely enough I do sometimes when I see pictures of dressage horses notice the whiskers and also want to chop dressage horses tails up to showing length.


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## Moomin1 (14 December 2012)

I refuse to trim my horse's whiskers even for showing.  Then again, I only do a bit of local showing so suppose it doesn't really matter!


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## ILuvCowparsely (14 December 2012)

Moomince Pie said:



			I refuse to trim my horse's whiskers even for showing.  Then again, I only do a bit of local showing so suppose it doesn't really matter!
		
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^5  this


 I also show but refuse to take whiskers off..

 welshie left natural my lad and his late mum i refused.


 If the show knocks me down for freeze marks or whiskers, they can get stuffed.  Not removing them  just because some lame judge tells me too.


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## Moomin1 (14 December 2012)

Leviathan said:



			^5  this


 I also show but refuse to take whiskers off..

 welshie left natural my lad and his late mum i refused.


 If the show knocks me down for freeze marks or whiskers, they can get stuffed.  Not removing them  just because some lame judge tells me too.
		
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Love it!


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## ihatework (14 December 2012)

FMM I believe it's only muzzle whiskers, not hairy chins/ears etc.
And humblepie - wash your mouth out and leave those dressage tails alone :O

FWIW, I keep my horses clipped/trimmed but always leave muzzle whiskers on, and am actually fairly 'pro' the new ruling although do agree there are probably bigger welfare issues to address first. And I'm not even convinced yet that removing whiskers falls under a welfare issue anyway.


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## MillionDollar (14 December 2012)

I still think the same. There are far bigger issues out there to deal with and I still clip/shave whiskers off, IMO looks far smarter BUT I don't have any issues when people leave them on either


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## Worried1 (14 December 2012)

I think I'd be more concerned about misuse of draw reins, Rolkur and other vile training methods before I began worrying about whiskers!


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## Zeus (14 December 2012)

So in Germany they have banned the trimming of whiskers but still allow branding.....


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## sarahhelen1977 (14 December 2012)

Having spent many hours writing for judges, I fail to see why anyone would trim their horse's whiskers 'for dressage' - I have never noticed that a horse has/hasn't had it's whiskers trimmed - I really don't think dressage judges care THAT much either!


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## TrasaM (14 December 2012)

Surely horses have whiskers because they have a blind spot under their mussel so the whiskers are there so they can feel what they are nibbling on. Imagine if your finger tips were numb. How would that affect you? 
It seems odd that anyone would want to shave them off.  If you want to know how sensitive they are just try tweaking one. 
They are there for a reason and maybe there are bigger fishes to fry but this is a start.


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## rowy (14 December 2012)

I don't really see the point in trimming whiskers for dressage. I don't bother trimming mine, I don't even notice them half the time! 
I hate seeing horses with all their ear floof trimmed out though. I cringe at the Thought of stuff falling down there and think it must have some effect on hearing?


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## TarrSteps (14 December 2012)

MillionDollar said:



			I still think the same. There are far bigger issues out there to deal with and I still clip/shave whiskers off, IMO looks far smarter BUT I don't have any issues when people leave them on either 

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But why does that mean there is no point to a relatively simple and completely positive ruling?  That's like saying no one should worry about rolkur/nerving/whip rules because horses are starving.

There is no reason to take whiskers off, growing evidence that they are there for a reason, and it's easy to tell people that if they want to show under FEI rules they should leave well enough alone.  The German horse industry hasn't tanked because of their national ruling.


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## TarrSteps (14 December 2012)

humblepie said:



			I show so they are trimmed.    Strangely enough I do sometimes when I see pictures of dressage horses notice the whiskers and also want to chop dressage horses tails up to showing length.
		
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If they are German it's because it's against the law in German to cut them off.  I do think this is how attitudes change, too - when one of the most dominant nations in a sport subscribe to a "new normal" it stops looking like such a good idea for everyone else.


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## TarrSteps (14 December 2012)

Zeus said:



			So in Germany they have banned the trimming of whiskers but still allow branding.....
		
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It's more than likely on the way out with the standardisation of the UELN, microchipping and DNA testing, but the argument, such as it is, has been that there are positive to branding beyond fashion.  No such claim can be made for whiskers.


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## Sol (14 December 2012)

I don't trim whiskers, and wouldn't. I don't even notice that they're there, but I do notice when they aren't, and I think horses look weird without them. Most of the time you are either sat on top of your horse (where you hopefully can't see too much of it's face!), or viewing it because you're feeding/grooming/patting it or whatever - where surely it having whiskers or not is not THAT big an issue for you... or do you plait up on a daily basis because it looks neater?  Otherwise, you'd probably be looking at photos from shows etc, and I honestly barely notice whiskers in these?  They're so fine, they often barely even catch the light! 

I have heard of many horses having issues with their whiskers being trimmed. 

I'm certainly happy to leave my boys with their whiskers, and a ban wouldn't worry me!


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## Worried1 (14 December 2012)

Just to lower the tone... Who shaves their armpits?  do we actually need that hair?????


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## TarrSteps (14 December 2012)

Worried1 said:



			Just to lower the tone... Who shaves their armpits?  do we actually need that hair?????
		
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Whiskers aren't hair.  



You're all too young and too English but there used to be a group called the Thompson Twins.  I heard a great interview with one of them, where she talked about their super cool idea one day to look "different" by shaving off their eyebrows.  They were very pleased with the idea until they went out on stage and started playing . . . at which point they realised WHY we have eyebrows, especially if one is sweating and wearing stage make-up!


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## Worried1 (14 December 2012)

Oi! Who you calling young  Doctor Doctor!


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## MagicMelon (15 December 2012)

Miss L Toe said:



			Men are fools, look at the new Andy Murray look, its pathetic.
Horses are  not men however, and spend 12 hours a day in the dark, my boy is kept "au naturalle" as nature intended, and as for baby oil, don't start me!
		
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I personally hate the smooth look on horses, they need their whiskers and its another thing which is done purely to look "pretty".  I've never taken my horses ones off.  My new horse arrived with them off and so is sporting a decent stubble now!


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## Goldenstar (15 December 2012)

If BD want to micro manage people's horse care, then let it be on their heads on whiskers I think there are things that are you banned from doing that they could look at allowing first having to use nosebands being one I can't get brain around why do you have to wear a noseband does anyone know?.
Loads of things you could ban or require if you get going on it .
Lots of fun for someone.


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## TarrSteps (15 December 2012)

I'm actually renowned for my anti-noseband stance  and I still don't see how it's a trade. Surely any conversation about what is necessary and/or comfortable for the horse is one with having in the larger context. One argument is that we should not have these conversations because that way PETA lies , and the eventual end is do we have any right to do anything to horses? I prefer to believe that frankly we do, as that's what horses are for, but that does not preclude a discussion about things that have only negative effects vs practices that could go either way. No one can argue any benefit to whisker trimming whereas one might argue that nosebands CAN be beneficial and within the narrow confines of dressage requirements, acceptance of a noseband is one of the aspects being tested. 

I agree, it's small potatoes but it is a simple thing that people can agree on, leaving aside vanity. Perhaps it's a place to start?


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## Goldenstar (15 December 2012)

Well I suppose from where I sit I see the whiskers thing  as a sort of giant red herring.
I was a welfare officer and have seen what I would call "proper cruel ".
So that any one in the context of Germany banning the trimming of whiskers that taking thirty seconds of time banning whisker trimming in a country that part of an union that allows horses to be transported massive distances for slaughter many injured many potentially carrying potentially dangerous diseases just seems to me frankly a joke.
What about insisting that horses have the right to turnout ?
Or period a Rest from shoes every year ?
I am just sure where this route will take us , there are people out there who do believe the use of horses is right .
I am aware that this post is not entirely coherent but I don't thing my own views in this area are fixed I am not sure what I think.
PS Tarrsteps my horse says can he come and live with you he can't wear a noseband ATM and is in a micklem but does not like his mouth tied shut he wants to trend the racehorse look.
I think I am going to let him .


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## TarrSteps (15 December 2012)

When Clayton Fredericks gave a clinic in Ontario recently and took off/loosed a bunch of nosebands at least half a dozen people sent me a link! 

I see what you mean - we have much bigger fish to fry - but I still maintain things like shoes and nosebands can be necessary evils in some circumstances so far more complicated to legislate. Whiskers are easy and the topic at least gets people thinking about things they've 'always done' without thinking if they might have negative consequences. We can work up to optional nosebands!


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## Baggybreeches (15 December 2012)

TarrSteps said:



			Out of curiosity, how do people KNOW their horses don't feel () the loss of their whiskers?  Their purpose wouldn't be to stop things like horses banging into walls, anyway.
		
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My TB bangs his head on just about everything possible, and for that reason alone I wouldn't rim his whiskers! My ID tries to eat the clippers so I can never be bothered trying to do hers either, maybe why I am not a showing/dressage diva!


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## Daytona (16 December 2012)

I think it's a bloody shame, horses needs there whiskers


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## Pigeon (14 November 2013)

I've never trimmed whiskers on any of mine as assumed they were there for a reason! However I think in the domesticated horse, who isn't having to forage through scrubland for food, they have very little need for them.


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## Pigeon (14 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			If BD want to micro manage people's horse care, then let it be on their heads on whiskers I think there are things that are you banned from doing that they could look at allowing first having to use nosebands being one I can't get brain around why do you have to wear a noseband does anyone know?.
Loads of things you could ban or require if you get going on it .
Lots of fun for someone.
		
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THIS. 

Also why are people allowed a double bridle, but not allowed to go bitless? Surely the minimisation of unnecessary equipment is more important?


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