# Expecting an exciting delivery...



## Ambers Echo (27 July 2021)

It's been mentioned on a couple of threads already but I have bought a new horse! Bay, 8 year old ISH mare. 16.1 Unseen from Ireland which is a bit scary but the dealer comes highly recommended according to a few HHOers and my RI loves the way she looks/moves. And she is sound. So fingers crossed it will all work out but if she doesn't I doubt it will be hard to move her on so seemed worth taking a punt on her.

She needs a stable name. Registered name is Shannonview Chicago. I am keen on something Irish or something related to her colour or her name.  She sails Thursday overnight and is going straight to a friend's yard for 2 weeks schooling livery. Just in case she is a fruit-loop. Which I'm sure she isn't!

Pics from her ad:


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## Kizzy2004 (27 July 2021)

She’s beautiful 😍 

What about Shandy?  It’s an Irish name and kind of fits with the first part of her name.


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## Micky (27 July 2021)

I was going to suggest Shamus but then realised she’s a girl! Shandy’s good..


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## ElleSkywalker (27 July 2021)

Clodagh


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## MrsCentaur (27 July 2021)

What an utterly beautiful mare!  Congratulations!

Do you like Orlaith?  Meabh?  Fiadh?  I have a bit of a thing for Fionnuala but perhaps that's a bit much?


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## Trouper (27 July 2021)

Shamrock.
Colleen


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## New2this (27 July 2021)

saoirse? Means freedom in Irish.


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## OrangeAndLemon (27 July 2021)

Chica, for no reason at all other than it's a shortened version of Chicago.


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## TPO (27 July 2021)

I liked @ihatework 's suggestion on the other thread of Roxie from the musical Chicago


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## SEL (27 July 2021)

Looks a really nice type - I like the name Shannon


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## ycbm (27 July 2021)

Nice looking mare AE  👍


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## Upthecreek (27 July 2021)

Aoife - Means "beauty" from the Irish word aoibh, Old Irish óeb. In Irish legend Aoife was a warrior princess. ... This name is sometimes used as a Gaelic form of Eve or Eva.


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## ycbm (27 July 2021)

Roxie,  lead character in Chicago.

ETA I'd call her Shannon myself


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## NightStock (27 July 2021)

She looks lovely, hope she works out for you. What about something to do with the 'view' part of her name? Maybe 'Vista', or maybe 'look' in Irish Gaelic apparently is 'Breathnaigh' which has a couple of different pronunciations?


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## Skib (27 July 2021)

Shanon. I like place names for horses from Ireland.


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## CanteringCarrot (27 July 2021)

There's a lot to like about her!


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## PapaverFollis (27 July 2021)

Oh she's smart! 

Beverly.  Irish neighbourhood in Chicago. Girl's name. ✔


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## Tarragon (27 July 2021)

I like Shanty, as in sea Shanty. I know it isn't very Irish, but at least people can spell it and pronounce it


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## PapaverFollis (27 July 2021)

I thought the Irish word for wind (windy city, see?) might work, gaoth, but people would reach for Goth I think. 😂  I only googled it though so there might be better Irish words for wind out there.


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## Ambers Echo (27 July 2021)

Oh Beverley is clever but a Bev has just tried to destroy my business with a relentless dirty tricks campaign! (Literally. Long story. She didn’t). So I can’t hear that name now without feeling angry. Shame as it’s a good name for the bay mare. Who at this rate will end up being called The Bay Mare!


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## PapaverFollis (27 July 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Oh Beverley is clever but a Bev has just tried to destroy my business with a relentless dirty tricks campaign! (Literally. Long story. She didn’t). So I can’t hear that name now without feeling angry. Shame as it’s a good name for the bay mare. Who at this rate will end up being called The Bay Mare! 

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Oh no! That's awful. Yes you can't call her that then!


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## Ambers Echo (27 July 2021)

NightStock said:



			She looks lovely, hope she works out for you. What about something to do with the 'view' part of her name? Maybe 'Vista', or maybe 'look' in Irish Gaelic apparently is 'Breathnaigh' which has a couple of different pronunciations?






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Love this  clip and Irish for Look is a good idea. But not sure A Furk is the best name for an event horse. Though I can imagine yelling it on the XC


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## Ambers Echo (27 July 2021)

I like Kyla which apparently means both beautiful or victorious. I have seen it spelled both Cadhla and Kyla so I’d go for the phonetic version so she wasn’t mispronounced all the time. I also like Fiadh but might use Fia, meaning wild.


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## splashgirl45 (27 July 2021)

how brave of you,  hope she is as good as she looks......will you go to your friends place for the schooling?    is it wise to call her something which means wild ?


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## Ambers Echo (27 July 2021)

I’ll let my friend get a feel for her, then I’ll go and have some lessons on her there. Then -all being well - she will come home.


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## PaulineW (27 July 2021)

Chic, pronounced “sheek”?


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## LouisCat (27 July 2021)

Aoife or Niamh?
I love the jumping photo, such a honest head 😍


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## blitznbobs (27 July 2021)

Shan ... a mythical irish spirit of some sort I think


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## buddylove (27 July 2021)

Lori - current Mayor of Chicago! Or Sybil, just because 😉


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## Sam_J (27 July 2021)

Lovely horse!  I wish you lots of happy times together.


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## FourWhiteSocks (27 July 2021)

Lovely mare, sending best of luck  

'River', for the river Shannon 
'Bridie' a lovely Irish name, and suits such a pretty bay mare.


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## Quigleyandme (27 July 2021)

Shazza 😁


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## little_critter (27 July 2021)

Margarita (Chicago pizza 🍕)


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## Bluewaves (27 July 2021)

I quite like old fashioned Irish names so Bridget, Mary Kate, Eileen, Annie or just Mary on its own.


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## PapaverFollis (27 July 2021)

Aaawww, Bridget is a nice name for a big honest bay mare.


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## Smiffypig (27 July 2021)

Stella - having stalked her breeding from the other thread.

she’s a lovely mare, I hope you have many happy years with her!


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## palo1 (27 July 2021)

Exciting stuff!! Hope she is wonderful fun for you AE.  I love the names Bridget, Erin and Clodagh for a good Irish mare but you will know what suits her when you meet her.  *Eachann*  means brown horse if that helps!!


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## wispagold (27 July 2021)

She looks lovely! I can't think of any Irish names that haven't already been mentioned so I would have to go with the Chicago musical theme and go for Jazz or Zeta.


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## PictusSweetDreams (27 July 2021)

She’s a wonderful looking horse. How exciting!


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## scats (27 July 2021)

She looks lovely! I like the names Caoimhe and Aoife.


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## Midlifecrisis (27 July 2021)

Well she looks lovely..as for a name I’m stumped….


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## Bernster (27 July 2021)

Super duper exciting !  You really went n did it 😀. I’d go for Shannon but wait and see whether it suits when you meet her in person. Really looking forward to reading how you get on with new ponio!


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## SatansLittleHelper (27 July 2021)

Ooooh she's rather nice, congratulations ❤


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## iknowmyvalue (27 July 2021)

So exciting! She looks lovely! 

I like Aoife and River as names.

How about Chita? Name of the actress who played Velma in the original Chicago musical on Broadway. (Funnily enough Chita Rivera is her full name, so River would nod to that too!)


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## Caol Ila (27 July 2021)

The pic didn't show up on my laptop.  Ruadh. Means red. Aoife. Niamh. Ghaoith means wind, which is pronounced Ghee, so not a great name (in my view). Nebheis (Ne-vis) means cloud. Uaine means angel. 

There are good place names to be had in Ireland. Kinvarra. Tralee. Ardara. Nenagh. Ennis. Maghera. Drogheda. Adare. Cashel. Innisfree.

I restrained the worst of my urge for challenging Gaelic words for my Highland.  I really wanted to, but there's only so much of your life you want to devote to spelling it out for people, even here.


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## Chippers1 (28 July 2021)

My mum's cat is called Liffey (after the river Liffey in Ireland) and I quite like that name!


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## pistolpete (28 July 2021)

Gertie. Or big bay Bertha. She needs a solid dependable name. Looks a solid dependable girl. Failing that the opposite. Kiki or Baby!


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## Meowy Catkin (28 July 2021)

pistolpete said:



			Gertie. Or big bay Bertha. She needs a solid dependable name. Looks a solid dependable girl. Failing that the opposite. Kiki or Baby!
		
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Now you've got me singing 'Bertha, lovely Bertha, sometimes I think you're a dream...'


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## Millie-Rose (28 July 2021)

Our Irish mare is Mary, really suits her.


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## Sealine (28 July 2021)

Ooh she looks lovely. Really reminds me of a super mare that belongs to an old friend of my mine.  I hope you have lots of fun with her.


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## FireCracker238 (28 July 2021)

You could make Bridget more Irish looking by altering the spelling

There's also Reva, which has some connection to water. Taken from Wikipedia so not reliable but it states "Reva (Reua) - personification of water flows". I'm assuming pronunciation would be Reeva


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## Ambers Echo (28 July 2021)

Ooh I like Reva. Also like Darcy and Maisie.


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## MissTyc (28 July 2021)

She looks like a really nice horse! Best delivery ever!


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## Ambers Echo (29 July 2021)

Argghh not enough horses coming to England for them to set off tonight. So now booked on next Tuesday's sailing. Sooooooo impatient to meet her. I am leaning towards Lottie. From Lot 53!
She is half German so that's the German side being expressed.


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## FireCracker238 (29 July 2021)

Lottie is a pretty name, my sister has a cat with the same name. I also liked your first suggestion of Ava from the other thread


Sorry to hear the sailing has been delayed, I think we were all looking forward to the pictures 🤭


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## Zuzan (29 July 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Argghh not enough horses coming to England for them to set off tonight. So now booked on next Tuesday's sailing. Sooooooo impatient to meet her. I am leaning towards Lottie. From Lot 53!
She is half German so that's the German side being expressed.
		
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disgusted of the Highlands complaining re the resultant delay to "Pony has landed" and "AE onboard" posts.. most inconsiderate of the transporters.. 

and Lottie is an ace name .. love Lottie Lenya


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## CanteringCarrot (29 July 2021)

Also a big brown German Lottie on our yard. A successful jumping horse. It's a nice name.


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## palo1 (29 July 2021)

Lottie or Lotte is a great name for a good bay mare  Gutted for you for the delay though!


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## splashgirl45 (29 July 2021)

oh no,   dont they realise we are all waiting for pics and updates


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## eahotson (29 July 2021)

She is lovely.


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## pistolpete (29 July 2021)

I like Lottie too. Especially as Charlotte DJ has been the girl of the moment!


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## Coblover63 (29 July 2021)

Oh I'm totally bummed that you've got to wait a few more days now!


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## EventingMum (29 July 2021)

I have a Lottie, she is the polar opposite of yours AE, she's a scruffy fugly little RS cob but has the most amazing, sweet character, loves people and other horses and is always delighted to have a fuss. I hope your new girl is as delightful as mine.


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## Ambers Echo (29 July 2021)

I'm so frustrated she is not on her way. And stressed that someone else will buy her over the weekend! But I’m sure it will all be fine in the end.  We had a welcoming committee arranged 😂


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## ImmyS (29 July 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			I'm so frustrated she is not on her way. And stressed that someone else will buy her over the weekend! But I’m sure it will all be fine in the end.  We had a welcoming committee arranged 😂
		
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The same thing happened when I was importing Finn, I couldn’t wait any longer so found another company who could transport quicker 😆 I understand your excitement and frustration!!

She looks so lovely! I like Lottie


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## windand rain (29 July 2021)

lot's wife was ado or Edith. Like the name liffey or shannonn after the rivers but guess there are a lot of lovely gaelic river names. Feale being one I like


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## Laafet (29 July 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Argghh not enough horses coming to England for them to set off tonight. So now booked on next Tuesday's sailing. Sooooooo impatient to meet her. I am leaning towards Lottie. From Lot 53!
She is half German so that's the German side being expressed.
		
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We had a box coming over tonight but don't do outsiders. Which way is she coming over - the long way or DUB/HLY?


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## Ambers Echo (29 July 2021)

Via Belfast to avoid tariffs and other charges.


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## Sheep (30 July 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Via Belfast to avoid tariffs and other charges.
		
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Brexit has a lot to answer for!
Fingers crossed for her to arrive with you v soon.


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## Ambers Echo (2 August 2021)

She is being picked up at 8am tomorrow. Poor girl will have a long long journey and will be arriving around 3.30 am on Wednesday at my friends yard. Safe travelling vibes please!


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## cauda equina (3 August 2021)

Is she underway yet? Bon voyage!

btw I like Bridie


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## Ambers Echo (3 August 2021)




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## Ambers Echo (3 August 2021)

Ok her way….


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## MuddyMonster (3 August 2021)

How exciting! Wishing her a very safe arrival  Will you be there to see her arrive?


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## nikicb (3 August 2021)

Safe travels lovely girl!!  xx


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## Wheels (3 August 2021)

Cant wait to see the bleary eyed pics


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## Jeni the dragon (3 August 2021)

Very excited for her arrival!


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## splashgirl45 (3 August 2021)

looking forward to pics , hope she arrives safely


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## Ambers Echo (3 August 2021)

MuddyMonster said:



			How exciting! Wishing her a very safe arrival  Will you be there to see her arrive?
		
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I’ve gone on holiday today so sadly not. Plan A was to meet her Friday and spend the weekend hanging out at my friend’s yard. But not to be. I’d’ve cancelled but that’s not really fair on the rest of the family!! So I need to be patient for a bit longer but will get lots of videos.


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## Michen (3 August 2021)

Did the transporter mess up plan A per chance as poor Bear ended up having the most awful journey due to them mucking around! Had to get him picked up from their yard by someone else in the end.


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## Ambers Echo (3 August 2021)

Not really they just didn’t have enough horses for a trip on Thursday. She was not in transit longer. Just had longer on the yard selling her before she set off


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## Michen (3 August 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Not really they just didn’t have enough horses for a trip on Thursday. She was not in transit longer. Just had longer on the yard selling her before she set off
		
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At least the truck went at all, Bear was going to have a week there (as in at the transporters) if I hadn't found someone to go get him!

They did look after him well though whilst he was there.


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## Ambers Echo (4 August 2021)

She’s arrived! Tired but no sign of being stressed, shiny coat. Will have at least 2 days out with ad lib haylage, grass and hopefully sun on her back.  Apparently the transporters were gentle, calm and the horses all looked good. And she arrived bang on time. So shout out to George Mullins!! I was haunted by that horse who colicked and died eating pieces of his haynet on a trip from Ireland. But she’s had a good journey over.


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## Michen (4 August 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			She’s arrived! Tired but no sign of being stressed, shiny coat. Will have at least 2 days out with ad lib haylage, grass and hopefully sun on her back.  Apparently the transporters were gentle, calm and the horses all looked good. And she arrived bang on time. So shout out to George Mullins!! I was haunted by that horse who colicked and died eating pieces of his haynet on a trip from Ireland. But she’s had a good journey over.
		
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Woooo fab to hear! Can't wait to see updates! xx


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## Rowreach (4 August 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			She’s arrived! Tired but no sign of being stressed, shiny coat. Will have at least 2 days out with ad lib haylage, grass and hopefully sun on her back.  Apparently the transporters were gentle, calm and the horses all looked good. And she arrived bang on time. So shout out to George Mullins!! I was haunted by that horse who colicked and died eating pieces of his haynet on a trip from Ireland. But she’s had a good journey over.
		
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Fabulous! I'm glad you used Mullins.


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## PictusSweetDreams (4 August 2021)

Fantastic news! Can’t wait to see updates. I bet you’re over the moon


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## Ambers Echo (4 August 2021)

Oh and the name is confirmed as Lottie. X


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## Reacher (4 August 2021)

Glad she has arrived safely


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## buddylove (4 August 2021)

Mullins are great, they bought a mare over for me a few years ago, and she arrived in perfect condition, and the transporter/driver seemed like proper horsemen who knew what they were doing, even though it was 3 in the morning 
Welcome Lottie!


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## Jeni the dragon (4 August 2021)

Excellent news! Looking forward to lots of pics!


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## splashgirl45 (4 August 2021)

great !!!!!  and a good name for her...


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## Red-1 (4 August 2021)

Tap tap tap, where are the photos?

One back view of a horse box does not an update make!


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## Ambers Echo (4 August 2021)




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## splashgirl45 (4 August 2021)

she looks nice and relaxed, bet you want your holiday out of the way now


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## Ambers Echo (4 August 2021)

Relaxing first day. Passport shows a well travelled girl having lived in Sweden!!
Plan for tomorrow is farrier, dentist and vaccs.  And a lot more chilling in the field. She is being quarantined for 2 weeks so no horsey company but she seems happy enough on her own.


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## Quigleyandme (5 August 2021)

Very pleased to learn she arrived safely and in good shape. I hope you bring each other much joy.


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## Ambers Echo (8 August 2021)

First hack in torrential rain was a success. She was a very good girl! My friend likes her. I’m so nervous waiting for the wheels to come off but so far so good.


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## Zuzan (8 August 2021)

I do hope the dreadful dearth of photos is because your friend has her at the moment.. In expectation of vicarious new horse oooglling


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## Ambers Echo (8 August 2021)

Yes! I’ve not even met her. I’m just waiting for updates and obsessively googling her. Hairy moment when she was described as 8 on a results page for 2018 but the page is live and gives the age now not at the time of the comp. Mad phone call to my friend: check her passport ! She might be 11!!

 It’s very nerve wracking.


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## Michen (18 August 2021)

Hows the delivery and where's the pics!!! xx


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## Ambers Echo (18 August 2021)

I’m still away! Going home tomorrow. Have a lesson in her on Friday at her schooling livery yard. Sort of a viewing I guess to see if she’s coming home with me or staying put for a bit. On Saturday I’ll just hang out with her, do some ground work.  And then another lesson on Sunday. Then - all being well - she’s  coming home on Sunday. It’s not been totally straightforward. She is described as uneducated. No idea what a contact is. Not on the aids, not straight, not supple. In fact she was described initially as a ‘wibblwobbly plank of wood!’ Hmmmm , But genuine and willing with potential. And jumps very well. Seems that’s all she’s done, really. Show jumped with a boy till 2018 then sold to Sweden as a show jumper. Then arrived back in Ireland in June to be sold at auction as a show jumper.  She’s also grumpy and not overly fond of people. Her attitude seems to be ‘fine I’ll do my job then sod off and leave me alone’. But then Amber was like that and she mellowed. I am hopeful we can be ok together. Excited and optimistic.


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## Ambers Echo (20 August 2021)

So I have finally met Lottie and the good news is that I like her! Actually I really like her. She is nowhere near as anti-human as Amber was when she first came. Amber really acted like she disliked people, Lottie seems more suspicious. Not wary, exactly, in an nervous sense, but she acts like she expects you could be bad news. Ears back, moves away, keeps a 'no funny business please' eye on you. But does not threaten, nip, turn to kick or show any aggression at all. I spent some time just hanging out in the stable and fiddling with a bridle and over time she relaxed a bit so I think she will be fine. 

Ridden she feels very willing and safe so that is a huge tick. She feels the perfect size too. She is not on the aids really but not in a lazy or rushing sense. Just in a 'no-one has expected me to be instantly responsive to cues' sense. And she really does not get flexion. She is very wooden. But once she understood she was ok. It is more a lack of understanding than active resistance to bending or flexing.

She locks onto any jump that passes her eye line which is a bit disconcerting. And she takes you to a fence. I like the feeling that whatever happens, she is going over. 

So all good, really. I'd have bought her if today was a viewing! So that's reassuring. I will hang out with her a bit tomorrow. Ride on Sunday and bring her home. Hurrah!!


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## Amymay (20 August 2021)

She looks lovely


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## JJS (20 August 2021)

She’s so pretty, OP! Sounds like you’re going to have lots of fun together


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## ImmyS (20 August 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			So I have finally met Lottie and the good news is that I like her! Actually I really like her. She is nowhere near as anti-human as Amber was when she first came. Amber really acted like she disliked people, Lottie seems more suspicious. Not wary, exactly, in an nervous sense, but she acts like she expects you could be bad news. Ears back, moves away, keeps a 'no funny business please' eye on you. But does not threaten, nip, turn to kick or show any aggression at all. I spent some time just hanging out in the stable and fiddling with a bridle and over time she relaxed a bit so I think she will be fine.

Ridden she feels very willing and safe so that is a huge tick. She feels the perfect size too. She is not on the aids really but not in a lazy or rushing sense. Just in a 'no-one has expected me to be instantly responsive to cues' sense. And she really does not get flexion. She is very wooden. But once she understood she was ok. It is more a lack of understanding than active resistance to bending or flexing.

She locks onto any jump that passes her eye line which is a bit disconcerting. And she takes you to a fence. I like the feeling that whatever happens, she is going over.

So all good, really. I'd have bought her if today was a viewing! So that's reassuring. I will hang out with her a bit tomorrow. Ride on Sunday and bring her home. Hurrah!!






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Great news! She’s lovely and sounds like she will come around pretty quick. Look forward to future updates!


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## AandK (20 August 2021)

Aww, she looks great, pleased you have finally found the right one! Hope you have lots of fun together!


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## rara007 (20 August 2021)

Great name!


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## MuddyMonster (20 August 2021)

Sounds like it couldn't have gone better! How exciting 💕


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## CanteringCarrot (20 August 2021)

She's lovely. So glad the "first date" went well.


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## ycbm (20 August 2021)

I'm glad you like her,  it sounds like a promising first date 
.


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## Bernster (20 August 2021)

You look like a nice pairing already. Glad it started well and with time, work and getting to know each other, I’m sure that will all come right.

Similar to me in some ways, me and Bertie need to get the hang of each other, but it’s slowly going in the right direction and I feel like there is (are?) the makings of something good there. But it’s reminds you what a journey there is with a new horse even if it’s not a green youngster!


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## Red-1 (20 August 2021)

Sounds like a very promising start!


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## Jeni the dragon (20 August 2021)

She's very pretty and you look great together!


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## southerncomfort (20 August 2021)

Very happy for you!


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## Jayzee (20 August 2021)

This is fab news - how exciting!! I hope there are lots of pictures when she comes home


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## Wheels (20 August 2021)

This is great to see, I hope you have lots of fun together


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## Equi (20 August 2021)

She looks lovely good choice 😊 the mullens have a good rep so good choice for transporter. Here’s to many happy years.


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## iknowmyvalue (20 August 2021)

All sounds very positive! Look forward to seeing your progress 😍


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## splashgirl45 (20 August 2021)

sounding very positive, you look like a good fit sizewise....  more updates when you can please


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## Trouper (21 August 2021)

She looks lovely - so glad she is with you.    Sounds like lots of carrot stretches then to help deal with the "wooden" feel - and to bond with her!!!!!


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## Ambers Echo (22 August 2021)

Continuing to get to know Lottie. I like how she thinks and how she tries. Her passport shows a well travelled horse and a different place for every vaccination suggests she has moved from yard to yard to yard, never staying anywhere very long. There is no obvious behavioural reason why she should have moved around so much so the pro who has had her thinks she just hasn’t fulfilled the SJ potential of her breeding so keeps not being quite good enough and sold on again. But she’s plenty good enough for me!! So hopefully she has now found her human and her place.

She reacts to human visitors to her stable with a ‘meh humans, what do you want now’ kind of vibe. But she is clever and she tries. She didn’t like being bridled or unbridled as she is a bit headshy. So I’ve spent a lot of time trying to make bridling/unbridling gentle and stress free with a dropped head and she is quick to learn. I trailered her home today and she walked on readily then as Katie raised her hand to tie her to the twine hanging from the roof, she threw her head up, hit the roof, panicked and shot out backwards. But she was happy to re- approach, sniff the ramp, step 2 feet on. You could see her processing/thinking so I left her alone and she then sighed and walked back in calmly.

She was fab to ride today. She accelerates to the fence  and tanks off afterwards but not in a way that makes me nervous. I think she’s just been ridden like that and she thinks she is meant to do that. So I think we need to do loads of work on maintaining rhythm over poles/ jumps. But she is so genuine. Kept the jumps teeny tiny but did a whole course! And she jumped off some pretty awful misses. Sorry Lottie.

So she’s home now, turned out with Dolly and seems very settled and context. Long may that last.


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## Ambers Echo (22 August 2021)

Oops not sure why that pic is sideways!!


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## Wheels (22 August 2021)

Oh bless her, hopefully once shes settled she will be less tense around people, sounds like shes never really had the chance to get to know anybody.

Has she had physio yet? Sometimes headshyness can link to tension I  the TMJ or jaw.


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## Baywonder (22 August 2021)

She sounds and looks absolutely lovely.  I am so pleased for you!


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## Ambers Echo (22 August 2021)

Wheels said:



			Oh bless her, hopefully once shes settled she will be less tense around people, sounds like shes never really had the chance to get to know anybody.

Has she had physio yet? Sometimes headshyness can link to tension I  the TMJ or jaw.
		
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She has physio this week.


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## Red-1 (23 August 2021)

I am so happy that your gamble paid off. Seems like there are some good sellers in the world!


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## lannerch (23 August 2021)

Red-1 said:



			I am so happy that your gamble paid off. Seems like there are some good sellers in the world!
		
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There are plenty of good sellers in this world in fact they far outnumber the bad it’s just you hear about the bad . 

Lovely horse ambers echo so pleased for you congratulations 🥳


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## Trouper (23 August 2021)

She looks a total sweetheart - so lovely when they are willing to work with you despite all that might have gone on in a chequered past.


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## TheOldTrout (23 August 2021)

She looks gorgeous. I like Shannon for a name.


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## Rowreach (23 August 2021)

Honestly, she sounds like a typical horse that's been started and jumped in Ireland. It's all about getting from one side to the other, and finessing it generally doesn't happen.

Once you've built that relationship and put in the missing pieces you'll have a cracking horse there 🙂


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## iknowmyvalue (23 August 2021)

Rowreach said:



			Honestly, she sounds like a typical horse that's been started and jumped in Ireland. It's all about getting from one side to the other, and finessing it generally doesn't happen.

Once you've built that relationship and put in the missing pieces you'll have a cracking horse there 🙂
		
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Agree with this! My new one is the same 🙈

She looks cracking, and I’m sure you’ll have a lot of fun together!


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## Backtoblack (23 August 2021)

Ci-Ci


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## Ambers Echo (23 August 2021)

I have no idea if this is of any interest to anyone.... but I'd like a record of our progress anyway. So here is more detail than anyone really needs on catching Lottie!

I knew Lottie could be tricky to catch even in her bare paddock. So I realised that a large grassy field may seem a better option for her than coming in! But hard to catch horses are a PITA and so I decided I would take as long as it takes and she would come in more or less willingly. I started filming a few minutes in and there are gaps in the filming because sometimes I wanted my hands free and sometimes I was petting her and sometimes I was busy and forgot.

Anyway the process went more or less: As soon as I arrived, ears went back and she trotted slowly away. No sign of fear. Just 'nope not coming in' vibes. So I followed at an equal distance and we meandered round the field together for a few minutes in walk or a slow trot till she stopped and I stopped and that is where the video starts. Essentially I was trying to use pressure release. I found her 'edge' where she would walk away and stayed on the edge. Not getting nearer. The edge got closer to her all the time. But I would move away away when she stopped or looked at me. Occasionally she would lose interest in me so I'd ask her to move out onto a circle around me. I'd also put a bit of pressure on when she was a bit aggressive, trying to drive me off, though in a very low key 'please go away' kind of way, No real hear behind it!  I held my ground, stopped filing and sent her away. Or if she tried to eat grass and I would step in and say no that wasn't allowed.

The film stops when she is happy to be approached and has taken a few steps towards me or with me and I wanted to pet her. Then I haltered her with her not objecting at all and she led in with no issues. Hopefully it will take a bit less time tomorrow! And no time at all in a few days.


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## Bernster (23 August 2021)

Very interesting. They communicate with us all the time don’t they, but sometimes it might seem like a whisper.☺️


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## Tarragon (23 August 2021)

Thank you for posting


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## Wheels (23 August 2021)

Lovely, well done AE


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## splashgirl45 (23 August 2021)

what a good conversation you had with her,  exactly the right way especially with a mare.  you will have her sorted in no time, she looks like she will soon be looking for you,  lovely to see your progress and i for one love seeing peoples journeys as i now dont have a horse, so lots more updates when you have time please


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## Lucky Snowball (23 August 2021)

You look really at home on her. Great looking horse.


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## Ambers Echo (24 August 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			what a good conversation you had with her,  exactly the right way especially with a mare.  you will have her sorted in no time, she looks like she will soon be looking for you
		
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I hope so. Catching was the one area the yard that had her was concerned about. Apparently  she charged at one of the grooms once. So I wasn’t sure how it would be but I decided that I would only ever match her pressure not ever get after her. So though I was fully prepared to have to defend myself I was never going to act aggressively myself. It took about 30 minutes to catch her though I didn’t even try to halter her until she looked ok about it. The first couple of times I was near enough to pet her she barely tolerated me stroking her neck and her ears were back so she might have put up with me haltering her but actually I didn’t want to with her in that mood so I just backed off and gave her a short break. 

My overall aim is for her to actually become well mannered and polite, not just obedient. And to trust me and feel comfortable around me not just tolerate me. It’s weird though: I really really like her even though the feeling is definitely not mutual! For all Toby’s friendliness and affection, I like her more already. And not just riding her (though that too) but her in general. I have no idea why. Maybe I like stroppy, clever, independent minded women!!


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## ImmyS (24 August 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			I hope so. Catching was the one area the yard that had her was concerned about. Apparently  she charged at one of the grooms once. So I wasn’t sure how it would be but I decided that I would only ever match her pressure not ever get after her. So though I was fully prepared to have to defend myself I was never going to act aggressively myself. It took about 30 minutes to catch her though I didn’t even try to halter her until she looked ok about it. The first couple of times I was near enough to pet her she barely tolerated me stroking her neck and her ears were back so she might have put up with me haltering her but actually I didn’t want to with her in that mood so I just backed off and gave her a short break.

My overall aim is for her to actually become well mannered and polite, not just obedient. And to trust me and feel comfortable around me not just tolerate me. It’s weird though: I really really like her even though the feeling is definitely not mutual! For all Toby’s friendliness and affection, I like her more already. And not just riding her (though that too) but her in general. I have no idea why. Maybe I like stroppy, clever, independent minded women!!
		
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She reminds me so much of my ex-racer - she had exactly the same attitude towards people especially in the field. She would read up at you sometimes - never tried to make contact, but she would warn you. We had the best relationship in the end once she came round. I think when some of these horses have never had a ‘constant’ in their life they naturally become defensive. You can see that she has an inquisitive and friendly side from that video. I think give it 6 months and she’ll be a completely different horse with you.


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## ycbm (24 August 2021)

She's 8 isn't she AE?  She's a lucky girl to have arrived with someone who will establish a relationship with her like you are,  she sounds like she's been unable to have that in the past.  
.


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## Trouper (24 August 2021)

Fascinating to be able to watch you work with her as well as the "written report"!

Her eyes look tired - as if she is still processing all that has happened to her in recent weeks.   I am sure she will soon learn to trust you with the approach you are taking with her.


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## Asha (24 August 2021)

She does look as though she wants to trust you, bless her. So glad shes found someone who will give her time. I look forward to the updates, where no doubt we will see a very different / relaxed mare.


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## Ambers Echo (24 August 2021)

Well that was unexpectedly easy! Bless her. So much for being 'tricky to catch'. After the video stops I just haltered her, meeting no resistance and led her in. 






Busy day for Lottie. Farrier first to have her shoes taken off. Then physio. She was quite tight but actually really seemed to relax and enjoy the massage.


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## Regandal (24 August 2021)

Ah, she’s getting the hang of it!  Clever girl.  She’s just lovely AE.


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## Bernster (24 August 2021)

Isn’t that lovely!  Sometimes the harder won, the sweeter the prize 😁


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## Zuzan (24 August 2021)

Aw .. this is why I just love an intelligent mare .. once they suss you out and understand you they are the absolute best partners in crime .. love the vids of "catching" .. I think she will make your heart sing.


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## j1ffy (25 August 2021)

Lovely progress, well done on treating her with patience and respect! I'm sure the flatwork will come on leaps and bounds with you too. She has a lovely fluid walk.


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## Ambers Echo (25 August 2021)

No problems catching her today and so we did some ground work. She catches on super quick. Her tendency was to get ahead of me when I was leading her but I have been working on her matching my pace and she is getting there. She is a real sweetie and tries hard. Only issue is that she isn't eating her hard feed. She eats hay and grass she will eat hard feed if I hold the bucket up for her but she won't eat off the floor! I've kept her on what she was on so that's a bit odd. But she is pooing loads and maybe as she is on good grass she is just not hungry?


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## CanteringCarrot (25 August 2021)

If you leave the feed there does she eat it eventually or just not at all?

Mine eats all of his dinner but in like...2 sittings. His "feed" and mineral are very boring and not tasty, so he eats about half or more and comes back for the rest later. Always been like this unless it's something more interesting aka a feed with sugar.


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## PapaverFollis (25 August 2021)

My sensitive mare would go off hard feed after a big change,  AE.

She's really beautiful. I love your catching videos.


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## Ambers Echo (25 August 2021)

Problem solved - they only mentioned her being on speedibeet, not that it was mixed with Alfa A. Have bought some Alfa A and she tells me that's much better!


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## Zuzan (25 August 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Problem solved - they only mentioned her being on speedibeet, not that it was mixed with Alfa A. Have bought some Alfa A and she tells me that's much better!
		
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It maybe the speedibeet doesn't suite her ... my mare went off it and refused to touch anything with even a smidgen of speedibeet in it .. in fact any beet at all.. even molassed..  I stopped feeding it altogether .. I don't think some horses get on with beet products as remember a previous co-livery's horse would colic if given any type of beet.. so might be worth finding another base feed.


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## Roxylola (25 August 2021)

Charlie isn't allowed beet at all - it may have been coincidence but he had a dreadful mallanders flare up that coincided with feeding speedibeet. He's also the pickiest cob I've ever known, he won't eat anything like topchop lite etc only alfa of some description 🙄
Glad you're getting along with her, you deserve a good one, and it sounds like she deserves a good steady home too 🥰


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## Ambers Echo (26 August 2021)

Call me soft but this has made me cry. My girls ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️


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## Trouper (26 August 2021)

I bet they're swapping notes and Lottie is being given the low-down on how things work round here.

Wonderful to see such quick results from your training.


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## Bernster (26 August 2021)

That’s adorable!


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## Caol Ila (26 August 2021)

Gypsum and my ex-YO had a falling out over speedibeet. He gave everything speedibeet. That's just how it was done. The last year we were on that yard, Gypsum went off the speedbeet. Would not touch anything with speedibeet in it. YO would storm up to me and snap, "She _not _eating her hard feed!" Like I have some control over this? I'll talk to her about it? His son, who helped run the yard, had a bit more sense and made a radical move -- feeding her the 16+ mix straight. She had no problem with eating that.


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## Ambers Echo (26 August 2021)

I am not wedded to speedibeet. I was just feeding what I was told she has been on but I’ll be weaning her onto pink mash if possible x


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## Ambers Echo (30 August 2021)

Next lesson was leading. I want her to lead politely. Partly because it's easier and safer that way and partly because I see all behaviour on the ground as an extension of being 'on the aids'. When I am riding I want her calm, attentive and immediately responsive. And I want the same on the ground. She was actually not too bad when she first arrived. Did a bit of towing me about but was nowhere near as bad as Amber had been. But she still needed tugging to move on or pulling back to stop her getting ahead. The ideal is for the lead rope never to get tight. So my first aim was her just being safe and not dragging  me. That felt ok so it was time for some refinement - having her her properly focused and matching me.

The video starts with her not really getting it. But all these clips were taken across 1 day (today) and I have never known a horse get it so quickly. She is either super clever or she's done this before!! Sorry for quality. It's all one handed obviously. Maybe I need a head cam.


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## Ambers Echo (6 September 2021)

Catching update! For the past few days she has been coming over with happy ears and following me around when I poo-pick, in a curious way but staying a few feet away. Today I was leaning over scraping some poo up when I felt her nuzzling/breathing on the back of my neck. It was so sweet. I turned to stroke her and Katie grabbed this snap. Awwwww


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## Ambers Echo (6 September 2021)

Sorry no idea why that is so enormous! Anyone know how I can make it smaller?


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## Roxylola (6 September 2021)

Its normal sized on my phone. She looks lovely, the best thing for a horse is to know exactly what is and is not acceptable and where they stand. They can relax when they know what the rules are


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## Ambers Echo (6 September 2021)

I am very happy she has gone from 'sod off' to 'give us a cuddle' in 2 weeks! Horses are endlessly generous and forgiving. She was obviously wanting to connect and make friends 
AND she wants to work. What's not to love.


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## DizzyDoughnut (6 September 2021)

Aww I love that photo, She looks so lovely!


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## Bernster (6 September 2021)

What a sweet pic. That must have been a really nice moment ☺️


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## Ambers Echo (11 September 2021)

Lottie giving lessons in the importance of asking politely! I had a dressage lesson this week. I was lining her up at the mounting block and she was still a step away from being where I needed her to be. I was about to ask her to step across from up on the block (I train horses to sort of come and collect me from wherever I am - block, rock, wall, fence) when apparently out of nowhere she kicked out and leapt forward. "oops sorry" said the instructor I gave her a bit of a prod to move her over."

 She didn't like that at all! She is a very sweet and willing girl but I am realising more and more how light and responsive she is. Not someone who needs a poke in the ribs for a response. I've started teaching her to yield to pressure from the ground: shoulders, hindquarters etc. Even on my first try, she did not need physical contact to step over or round. My hand a few inches away was enough pressure. She is totally my kind of horse: Intelligent, alert, willing, expressive. And won't let me push her around. Which I like because I think that trains me to be a better horse-person. I just love her.


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## DabDab (11 September 2021)

She sounds wonderful AE


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## Tiddlypom (11 September 2021)

She does sound lovely, AE.

At least your instructor fessed up. I can't fathom why she would think prodding a new horse unasked just as you about to get on to be a good idea .


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## Coblover63 (11 September 2021)

Aww, you are such a smitten kitten!!


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## Ambers Echo (11 September 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			She does sound lovely, AE.

At least your instructor fessed up. I can't fathom why she would think prodding a new horse unasked just as you about to get on to be a good idea .
		
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No me neither!


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## Ambers Echo (11 September 2021)

Coblover63 said:



			Aww, you are such a smitten kitten!!
		
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I really am actually. This one is a keeper.....


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## splashgirl45 (11 September 2021)

maybe lottie is loving having one person to herself and is responding by moving to you when poo picking.  you said she'd had quite a few homes and it may be that she was never given the chance to spend time with one person.  it sounds like you are perfect for each other.  i cant wait for the next update


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## FireCracker238 (11 September 2021)

I just love her, I'm only a tiny wee bit jealous. Red is so her colour too 😍


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## Ambers Echo (14 September 2021)

Lottie is lame and I feel sick. I know it's probably nothing much but everything starts with nothing much. She came in from the field Saturday evening with swelling and heat in front right after playing with Amber. Bute, cold hosing, box rest and she seemed sound so went out for a leg stretch in a tiny arena while I mucked out. She bucked, cantered a few strides and immediately pulled up lame again. So vet has said 10 more days box rest with bute and cold hosing.  If still lame then investigations will start. Please not another one...... I just can't keep doing this. Why are they so damn fragile.


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## Tiddlypom (14 September 2021)

Oh no, what rotten luck. I hope that it's just a minor tweak and that she'll be right as rain soon.


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## Ambers Echo (14 September 2021)

Just checked ny dates. It's not even been 3 days yet! It feels forever!! I should not have turned her out so soon. Really annoyed with myself.


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## CanteringCarrot (14 September 2021)

Hopefully just a hematoma or something. My horse did this and I thought for sure he had injured a tendon or ligament due to the swelling and slight lameness. Luckily it was a hematoma on his DDFT, and he was fine in a few weeks. 

I did use Ice Vibe boots and perhaps they helped.

Hoping it's something short and simple like that!


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## Birker2020 (14 September 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			I did use Ice Vibe boots and perhaps they helped.

Hoping it's something short and simple like that!
		
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Ice vibe are brilliant I used the loads of times on mine, a very worthwhile investment, the vet said he was astounded with the progress due to me using them during rehab.

Hope Lottie is okay soon.


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## Wheels (14 September 2021)

oh no, what a nightmare.  Try not to worry too much, the swelling etc. is doing it's job and hopefully it's just a bang or something that wll right itself.  It's been my experience that the injuries that are not visible are the worst / hardest to find and resolve but I'm sure that doesn't give you much comfort at the minute.

Don't beat yourself up about turning out, there is never a right time when hindsight is involved


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## splashgirl45 (14 September 2021)

what a shame, dont beat yourself up, we cant keep them wrapped in cotton wool,  hopefully its just a little tweak and she will be fine after a bit of rest..good luck


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## Skib (14 September 2021)

So sorry to read this. But horses in fields, well we want them to be free don't we? And with children too, it is the sporty ones who get injuries.


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## Caol Ila (14 September 2021)

Oh no! Hopefully she's just tweaked something minor and will be fine soon!


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## Red-1 (14 September 2021)

Oh no, I hope it is something very minor.


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## Zuzan (14 September 2021)

Fingers crossed it's tweek and nothing more.  Is it worth having a farrier out to check it isn't related to hoof balance / shoeing?


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## Bernster (14 September 2021)

😔


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## ycbm (14 September 2021)

Oh  begger it, AE, you must be in a blue funk.  What a horrible start to spoil your new horse owning , I'm so sorry to read this! 
.


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## southerncomfort (14 September 2021)

What absolutely rotten luck!  Really feel for you.

Keeping everything crossed that it's something very minor.


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## Squeak (14 September 2021)

Oh no, keeping everything crossed it's something minor.


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## Sam_J (14 September 2021)

So sorry to read this, hope it's nothing serious and she's fully recovered soon.


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## Ambers Echo (21 September 2021)

So she's had a week of bute now. Last dose was today. 3 days off bute then I can trot her up and see if she is fully sound. Please keep everything crossed. She is being angelic on box rest which helps at least. What a good girl.

The very patient patient:


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## ycbm (21 September 2021)

🤞🤞🏼🤞🏾


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## Roxylola (21 September 2021)

Crossing all the things for you


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## SatansLittleHelper (21 September 2021)

Awww I've not caught up on this til now....I hope Lottie is better asap...rotten luck AE but she'll have had the best of care with you so she's in good hands.
She's looking like a really lovely horse, it sounds to me as though she's very much enjoying having a person of her own and that her true personality is shining through now 😍


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## Ambers Echo (24 September 2021)

Cautiously optimistic.... she is a bit explosive but once she stopped dancing and actually trotted, she looked sound! I'm sending videos to check but I think she is ok.......

Next question: now what? In the past I have just got back on a recovered horse for some hacking in walk before picking up more work. But I can't turn her out yet as she will go nuts. She needs to do a bit of rehab before I am willing to let her loose in a field. If there is space to buck and spin/turn then she will and I don't want her loading that leg so much. But equally I'm not sure I really want to get on! And hand walking has is limitations really in terms of getting the fizz out.


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## Red-1 (24 September 2021)

Would she lead off another horse? Gives you the height advantage, makes me feel less vulnerable anyway!


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## Annagain (24 September 2021)

Could you pop her out in a very small area and gradually make it bigger over the next few days?


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## splashgirl45 (24 September 2021)

could you long rein rather than walk in hand, how about a little bit of sedation ask your vet for some acp and what  dose he would suggest...  really pleased for you that she seems sound.   fingers crossed


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## ycbm (24 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Next question: now what?
		
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If there was soft tissue swelling when she went lame,  doesn't your vet want to scan to decide what to do next? 
.


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## spotty_pony (26 September 2021)

Photos aren't working for me, but Shannondale horses are lovely!


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## nikicb (26 September 2021)

If it was me I would get your vet to scan.  Maddie knocked herself in the field 5 weeks ago, never lame, but heat and swellling.  I got it scanned twice 10 days apart and thankfully the vet confirmed no underlying damage to tendons/ligaments.  She was on box rest with hand grazing/controlled walking until the second scan, then has been out with leg wraps in the field (a temporary solution as I don't really want her to wear them long term) and gentle work for the past three weeks (mainly in hand plus treadmill a few times).  The swelling has only really just about gone - she had a steroid gel after the second scan as there was still a lot of sub-cutaneous damage.  Lottie's injury sounds pretty similar.  Personally I wasn't happy to start bringing her back into work until I knew that there was no underlying damage.


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## Ambers Echo (26 September 2021)

I’ll speak to vet again tomorrow but his plan was 7 days bute and box rest then 3 days off bute then trot up and lunge both ways. Assuming she was fully sound then he didn’t see the need to investigate. And she seems absolutely fine now. No heat or swelling since day 3 either. But given she’s a loon in the field, he wanted her in work before being turned out again. It’s going from box rest to in work without turning out that is the challenge!


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## Ambers Echo (26 September 2021)

I think my Amber experience has made me paranoid. No one else on the yard thinks I have anything to worry about at all! I’m hoping they are right but actually I do now feel pretty relaxed about her. I think she’s fine.


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## nikicb (26 September 2021)

Perhaps I am just very careful, but I just booked Maddie in for a scan, without asking my vet in advance, once the initial very puffy swelling went down (they couldn't have scanned the first few days as it was too swollen).  My vet is super cautious (in a good way), and when I took Maddie back after 10 days and there was still a significant swelling, she said that she was glad we were keeping an eye on it.  You may not know, but in the last 6 years I have had to retire an 8 year old, and then lost a 13 year old to lymphoma.  If I have to buy any more horses it will probably end in divorce.  So yes I am a little neurotic about it, but the scans gave me a lot of comfort that I am not double guessing Maddie's soundness.


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## Ambers Echo (26 September 2021)

Gosh what a nightmare for you. I’ve had a bit of a bad run too but have sort of ended up in a different place as a result: I spent thousands upon thousands above insurance on scans, blocks, MRIs or scintigraphy on 3 previous horses, none of which made the slightest difference to the outcome: 2 retired and 1 pts. My vet says diagnostics are way ahead of treatment options. Obviously if my vet suggested scanning,  I’d scan. But I’m happy to follow his lead on whether or not that is helpful/ necessary. He is very experienced, knows the horse and I trust his judgement.


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## nikicb (26 September 2021)

That's fine, I trust my vet's judgement too, and she was very glad that I got it scanned to make sure there was nothing underlying.  I have been 'working' with her for many years, and she is a close friend of a close friend (and I see her socially because of this) and I absolutely don't think she is trying to get me to do more vet work than required.  I'm just glad to know that Maddie has no tendon damage.  Hope Lottie comes back to full work soon.  x


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## Ambers Echo (26 September 2021)

Hope Maddie does too. Horses always give us something to worry about. Amber, Lottie and the one on the way will be my last horses. I also think divorce would be on the cards if I tried to ever have another!  (Though another foal might be allowed)


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## nikicb (26 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Hope Maddie does too. Horses always give us something to worry about. Amber, Lottie and the one on the way will be my last horses. I also think divorce would be on the cards if I tried to ever have another!  (Though another foal might be allowed)
		
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Thanks - I don't think I will ever (don't say never!!) have a set up where I will intentionally breed as my ridden horses tend to be Heinz 57 with no particular breeding.  Always hope for a BOGOF though, but none have come up with the goods so far.  Did discuss renewing Maddie's LOU insurance with husband the other day (never done it before, but did with her for the first year), and he did sort of say we could find funds if it went belly up.  Maybe he has just realised that I am better to live with when I have a horse to ride, but I think that might be pushing boundaries somewhat.


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## Ambers Echo (27 September 2021)

Oh well I spoke too soon. She’s lame again on it today 😢😢

Vet coming tomorrow.


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## Skib (27 September 2021)

O dear, I am so very sorry, Amber. You are having a bad time.


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## Tiddlypom (27 September 2021)

Can you take her in for a lameness workup? Get nerve blocks/scans/xrays done in one day?

Or does your vet have a full mobile equipment set up?


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## southerncomfort (27 September 2021)

Really sorry to read your latest update.

Just desperately disappointed for you. ☹


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## nikicb (27 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Oh well I spoke too soon. She’s lame again on it today 😢😢

Vet coming tomorrow.
		
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So sorry to read this.  I shall keep everything crossed for you for tomorrow.  xx


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## Red-1 (27 September 2021)

Noooo, I'm sorry. I hope it is a glitch, nothing too serious.


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## Mrs. Jingle (27 September 2021)

I assume you had her fully vetted and if so which vet over here did you use? The person you bought from has a very good reputation, but that is no guarantee that something niggling may have been going on that even seller might not have been aware of at the point of sale to you.

If he bought her from the sales she would have had a vets cert at that time, but again that is not a guarantee that she would still be sound when you bought her, and there might even have been something noted on the vetting from the sales, did you ask to see that?

It could be worth a quick phone call just to politely enquire a bit further, you never know there may be a clue somewhere in her recent history that will help sort what is going on.


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## scats (28 September 2021)

Gutted for you AE.  I hope it’s something that can be easily sorted.


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## ycbm (28 September 2021)

Crossing my fingers this is something simple,  you must be absolutely gutted 
.


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## Ambers Echo (28 September 2021)

I'm devastated. And terrrified. I am trying not to get ahead of myself but having been so positive about her trotting up sound I have come crashing down heavily. And am now assuming the worst. Minor injuries get better over time. They don't flare up again with a bit of hand walking. I try to stay positive and I have had ups and well as downs but the reality is I last competed in summer 2019 and since then I have just never had any consistency in anything. Optimism and excitement like I had with Scarlett  and then with Lottie just gets snuffed out. I know competing is not the be all and end all, but actually that is why I have horses! I love my horses for themselves but my passion and inspiration is competing. Excitement about seeing progress is what gets me up and out day after day after day. All the money, time and stress is paid for in spades when I leave that start box and head out over fences. But over the last 2+ years it has just been money, time and stress sunk into a bottomless pit with 2 lame horses at the end of it all. Sorry for the pity party. A close friend broke her neck and back at the weekend and we are scrambling to try and sort her 4 horses out who all live at home with her. It should make me see that a lame horse is small fry in the grand scheme of things but actually it has just makes me more sad, anxious and overwhelmed. Espeically as I am now under pressure from my OH to literally give it all up as he just says its too dangerous, time consuming, stressful and expensive. Thank God for Dolly and Amber's pregnancy! Without those bright spots I'd be a puddle in the floor now.

I am dreading hearing that it's a suspensory and she's out for months or forever. Forgive me, ignore me. Just needed to vent.


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## Ambers Echo (28 September 2021)

Also it sounds silly but I loved Lottie more in a week than Toby after a year. We clicked. If she goes wrong long term I won't have another. I'll just wait for Amber's foal to grow up.


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## Asha (28 September 2021)

Sorry to read the update. Another one here that will keep everything crossed for you.


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## Roxylola (28 September 2021)

Oh I could just cry for you, you've picked yourself up again and again. 
Crossing everything for you


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## scats (28 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			I'm devastated. And terrrified. I am trying not to get ahead of myself but having been so positive about her trotting up sound I have come crashing down heavily. And am now assuming the worst. Minor injuries get better over time. They don't flare up again with a bit of hand walking. I try to stay positive and I have had ups and well as downs but the reality is I last competed in summer 2019 and since then I have just never had any consistency in anything. Optimism and excitement like I had with Scarlett  and then with Lottie just gets snuffed out. I know competing is not the be all and end all, but actually that is why I have horses! I love my horses for themselves but my passion and inspiration is competing. Excitement about seeing progress is what gets me up and out day after day after day. All the money, time and stress is paid for in spades when I leave that start box and head out over fences. But over the last 2+ years it has just been money, time and stress sunk into a bottomless pit with 2 lame horses at the end of it all. Sorry for the pity party. A close friend broke her neck and back at the weekend and we are scrambling to try and sort her 4 horses out who all live at home with her. It should make me see that a lame horse is small fry in the grand scheme of things but actually it has just makes me more sad, anxious and overwhelmed. Espeically as I am now under pressure from my OH to literally give it all up as he just says its too dangerous, time consuming, stressful and expensive. Thank God for Dolly and Amber's pregnancy! Without those bright spots I'd be a puddle in the floor now.

I am dreading hearing that it's a suspensory and she's out for months or forever. Forgive me, ignore me. Just needed to vent.
		
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I really feel for you and understand everything you’ve said.
I honestly can’t do this anymore after these two mares go.  I genuinely don’t think my mental health can take it any more.  I’m not in the position you are in, but Millie had a niggle this weekend (though she’s sound, thank god) and I feel like I’ve crashed and burned.  It scares me how much my whole life is affected by the horses, to be honest.

I am sending you the best vibes I can and really, really hope it’s something that won’t be too tricky to sort out x


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## CanteringCarrot (28 September 2021)

It's a justified vent, that's for sure. I, quite frankly, don't find horses to be that much of a relaxing hobby, myself. I won't be surprised if/when I just walk away from it all, tbh.

Sure I have many moments of joy and enjoyment, but it's a huge time, money, and stress type thing too.

You do have Dolly and a foal on the way, which is exciting! You're very fortunate in that you can have all of this. Hopefully with Lottie, it's nothing major. Fingers crossed.


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## ycbm (28 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Also it sounds silly but I loved Lottie more in a week than Toby after a year. We clicked. If she goes wrong long term I won't have another. I'll just wait for Amber's foal to grow up.
		
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I so get this.  I felt the same about Deza and Joe. The moment he arrived I knew she had to leave. I'll cross everything for you that this is just something minor.  
.


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## scats (28 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Also it sounds silly but I loved Lottie more in a week than Toby after a year. We clicked. If she goes wrong long term I won't have another. I'll just wait for Amber's foal to grow up.
		
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I felt like that with Diva. Within 5 minutes I loved her more than I’d ever loved the horses I had at the time (that probably sounds awful).  I don’t think I’ve ever got over losing her and I think it killed a bit of me if I’m honest. Horses just haven’t been the same since.


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## Asha (28 September 2021)

AE ,, this is the worst bit. The part where you panic and then over think all the scenarios.  Take a step back and wait for the vet to assess her. She could have just twisted her fetlock larking about in the field. Our Finn did that it took a week and he was fine. 
Youve also got the added pressure of your OH, which i understand as i get that on occasion too. Just do some pony patting for now, or even spend your time looking at what stage Ambers foal is at. I find that very exciting. Good luck, and hope it works out.


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## Ambers Echo (28 September 2021)

Thanks for all the support everyone. I think I deserve a kick up the backside really, but I appreciate the kindness instead. x


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## Caol Ila (28 September 2021)

Gutted for you. I really hope this is something fixable.


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## teddypops (28 September 2021)

Oh no! The ‘what ifs’ are the worst bit of it. Hope you get better news than you think you’re going to get.


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## HashRouge (28 September 2021)

Just wanted to say good luck with the vet AE, you really don't deserve this run of bad luck!


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## palo1 (28 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			I'm devastated. And terrrified. I am trying not to get ahead of myself but having been so positive about her trotting up sound I have come crashing down heavily. And am now assuming the worst. Minor injuries get better over time. They don't flare up again with a bit of hand walking. I try to stay positive and I have had ups and well as downs but the reality is I last competed in summer 2019 and since then I have just never had any consistency in anything. Optimism and excitement like I had with Scarlett  and then with Lottie just gets snuffed out. I know competing is not the be all and end all, but actually that is why I have horses! I love my horses for themselves but my passion and inspiration is competing. Excitement about seeing progress is what gets me up and out day after day after day. All the money, time and stress is paid for in spades when I leave that start box and head out over fences. But over the last 2+ years it has just been money, time and stress sunk into a bottomless pit with 2 lame horses at the end of it all. Sorry for the pity party. A close friend broke her neck and back at the weekend and we are scrambling to try and sort her 4 horses out who all live at home with her. It should make me see that a lame horse is small fry in the grand scheme of things but actually it has just makes me more sad, anxious and overwhelmed. Espeically as I am now under pressure from my OH to literally give it all up as he just says its too dangerous, time consuming, stressful and expensive. Thank God for Dolly and Amber's pregnancy! Without those bright spots I'd be a puddle in the floor now.

I am dreading hearing that it's a suspensory and she's out for months or forever. Forgive me, ignore me. Just needed to vent.
		
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I think this is an entirely natural reaction tbh @Ambers Echo.  I am very sorry to hear about your friend too - that would also compound the stress and worry for me too. Waiting for the vet is just awful so I hope you get that over soon and you will know where you are at.  Everything crossed here that things look simpler and easier to deal with soon.


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## TheMule (28 September 2021)

Just to offer you some hope, mine came home from a competition looking like she had properly done a tendon- bowed, hot, swollen leg. Over the next few days swelling came right down but then a week later it was swollen again and I assumed the worst. Had it scanned expecting the worst but she just has a very minor bit of damage to check ligament that only needs 4 weeks off.


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## EventingMum (28 September 2021)

Absolutely gutted for you. I don't know about others but I find horsey problems all seem to come at once. I had tens of years and lots of ponies and horses for my son and myself with no major problems and then had 3 pts at the same time all with different problems, then got another just to enjoy and lost him too. It's really put me off having another for myself. Hopefully, it's something minor with Lottie.


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## MuddyMonster (28 September 2021)

Keeping absolutely everything crossed for you & Lottie. 

Your rant is entirely justified, you've had a bad run of luck lately.


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## Ambers Echo (28 September 2021)

Well I’m not much further on really. There was no heat or swelling and leg felt totally fine so no idea where to scan. So vet blocked fetlock and she was 75% improved but he now needs to come back and block just the foot to see if it’s foot or fetlock. Once we know what hurts he will image that area. Waiting, waiting…..


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## palo1 (28 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Well I’m not much further on really. There was no heat or swelling and leg felt totally fine so no idea where to scan. So vet blocked fetlock and she was 75% improved but he now needs to come back and block just the foot to see if it’s foot or fetlock. Once we know what hurts he will image that area. Waiting, waiting…..
		
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Is there any chance it could be a hoof abcess, or bruised sole?  They can be very difficult to identify and can have a come-and-go lameness pattern. Gawd, waiting is the very worst. Stay positive if you can.


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## Roxylola (28 September 2021)

Oh that's frustrating. I was also wondering (hoping) if it could be abcess or bruising. 
Did you take shoes off?


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## Red-1 (28 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Well I’m not much further on really. There was no heat or swelling and leg felt totally fine so no idea where to scan. So vet blocked fetlock and she was 75% improved but he now needs to come back and block just the foot to see if it’s foot or fetlock. Once we know what hurts he will image that area. Waiting, waiting…..
		
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How frustrating. Seems strange to block straight to the fetlock, usually they start low and work up, as once you have started higher up, you can't then go back down! The delay must be killing you. 

I had many trouble free years with horses, then a period of problem after problem. Nothing changed in my management the problems were all different in nature. Sometimes it is just the luck of the draw. I  really hope it is an abscess.


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## splashgirl45 (28 September 2021)

i also thought it may be bruising or abscess , did you say that you took her shoes off when she arrived?  apologies if it wasnt on your post, but if you did bruising could be very likely and should be easy to sort out.  might be worth trying some hoof boots with gel pads..


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## Squeak (28 September 2021)

Crossing everything for you that it's just bruising or an abscess.


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## Ambers Echo (28 September 2021)

I did take her shoes off but as she had heat and swelling in the lower leg it seems likely that she fell or slipped in the field and got a knock where the swelling was visible which has now resolved, but at the same time pulled/twisted something somewhere else. 

Re the nerve blocks - he said if you started with the foot and the pain was in the shoulder you could do loads of blocks so starting fairly low but not right at the bottom made sense to get a ball park location and then home in from there.


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## Zuzan (28 September 2021)

Gutted as other have said.. hoping that it's something like a recalcitrant hoof abscess..  Is it worth getting your farrier out to check ..? I've known farriers to be better at picking up where a lameness is than vets in some instances.  

I totally understand the clicking with a horse .. it's almost instant and you definitely do not deserve a kick up the backside.  

I know how devastation it feels to have someone close suffer a life changing injury .. it happened to my cousin.  It's scary and does make you take stock.  But important to keep everything in perspective which is v difficult when it is so close and immediate.


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## AandK (28 September 2021)

How gutting for you, can totally understand your despair.

FWIW, I have had an abscess present with heat and swelling in the lower leg, it was my old mare years ago. Was convinced she’d done a tendon/ligament, then it popped out of her heel bulb. Fingers crossed for you.


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## Ambers Echo (28 September 2021)

Oh god I hope so. Can we all do the pus rain dance?


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## SaddlePsych'D (28 September 2021)

Just catching up on this. It sounds so stressful AE and I just hope all comes right soon (or at the very least you get some answers, I would hate the not knowing). Keeping everything crossed for you.


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## palo1 (28 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Oh god I hope so. Can we all do the pus rain dance?
		
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I too have seen heat and swelling in the leg due to an abcess. More frequently than my nerves would like in fact.  The awful nebulous worry with a lame horse is utterly shredding so I hope you have a glass of something nice at home and that sooner or later you may be 'blessed' with pus or similar small injury/ailment.


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## TheHairyOne (28 September 2021)

Another who has a horse who gets a huge fetlock and swelling half way to the knee with abscess' and looks dog lame, then mostly ok, then 'off', then ok, then dog lame, then sound when it pops. The worst was a 4 week cycle of this that I was getting worried about, then out the coronet band it came. Change of field and diet has vastly improved his feet now, but I had a lot of experience for 2 winters before I got that right.


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## Zuzan (28 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Oh god I hope so. Can we all do the pus rain dance?
		
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Yes just to back this up .. the two hoof abscesses Nita has had have both created sporadic lameness and a swollen lower leg even though both resulted in miniscule amounts of puss.


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## HashRouge (28 September 2021)

I've also had a swollen leg with abscesses, but this has always been accompanied by a very hot foot too.


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## Sam_J (28 September 2021)

Nothing useful to add, just wanted to say that I've got everything crossed that this turns out to be something and nothing.


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## dixie (28 September 2021)

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you as was looking forward to your progress reports! 
I’ve had a horse be very suddenly lame then ok and lame again.  No heat in the foot so it was x-rayed but was a bruised sole. Slightly reactive to the pincers but took quite some time to clear up. Worrying at the time as thought it was much worse.  Hopefully it’s something like this especially as you took her shoes off.  
Have you had the farrier put the pincers in to check?


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## Ambers Echo (29 September 2021)

Vet checked with pincers. He can't find a paoin reaction. We are doing more blocks tomorrow. If it is the foot then yes, farrier would be a good bet.


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## palo1 (29 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Vet checked with pincers. He can't find a paoin reaction. We are doing more blocks tomorrow. If it is the foot then yes, farrier would be a good bet.
		
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I always find it comforting in these circumstances to remember that a huge proportion of lameness is in the foot and a large proportion of foot lameness is abcess or brusing related.  It helps whilst you are waiting for vet to identify the actual cause of lameness.   I have had bruising and abcesses not respond to hoof testers as well.  It is soooooo frustrating to have a lame horse with no obvious cause. Fingers crossed for swift diagnostics and resolution!


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## SusieT (29 September 2021)

If she is shoes off and currenlty unshod having been shod for a long time I would be homing in on this as a cause and potentially easy fix


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## ycbm (29 September 2021)

SusieT said:



			If she is shoes off and currenlty unshod having been shod for a long time I would be homing in on this as a cause and potentially easy fix
		
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Agreed,  especially as she did camp recently too. Sincerely hoping it's that easy.  
.


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## Ambers Echo (29 September 2021)

Foot was warm today...... Wasn't yesterday. Is that good? We have a dinky laser temp gizmo thingy. Left hoof was 10 degrees, right hoof 21. I could identify the precise place on the sole where it was 21/22 compared to 15ish elsehere on that sole. So I am now pinning all my hopes on an abscess. Vet coming tomorrow but should I get farrier out too?


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## Roxylola (29 September 2021)

Sounds promising. I'd definitely have the farrier on standby at least


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## dixie (29 September 2021)

Yes sounds promising and I would say bruise rather than abscess but either would be good 👍 
I’ve found that farriers are better at identifying bruises/abscesses and cheaper!!


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## splashgirl45 (29 September 2021)

farrier wont make as much mess of the foot as vets usually do so i would get farrier first if you can....im really hoping its bruising or abscess...


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## Red-1 (30 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Foot was warm today...... Wasn't yesterday. Is that good? We have a dinky laser temp gizmo thingy. Left hoof was 10 degrees, right hoof 21. I could identify the precise place on the sole where it was 21/22 compared to 15ish elsehere on that sole. So I am now pinning all my hopes on an abscess. Vet coming tomorrow but should I get farrier out too?
		
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Yay!  Yes, I would say that is all hopeful for a little glitch rather than a disaster!!!


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## ycbm (30 September 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Foot was warm today...... Wasn't yesterday. Is that good? We have a dinky laser temp gizmo thingy. Left hoof was 10 degrees, right hoof 21. I could identify the precise place on the sole where it was 21/22 compared to 15ish elsehere on that sole. So I am now pinning all my hopes on an abscess. Vet coming tomorrow but should I get farrier out too?
		
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I'd be certain that's a bruise,  possibly turning to an abscess,  and very likely to be the problem.  Those infrared thermometers are fab, I once found a 1cm  spot of bone bruising on a leg with one when I had an unexplained lameness.


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## timbobs (30 September 2021)

I haven’t commented on this thread, but I have followed your journey with Amber, Tony etc. And I’m sending abscess vibes your way! 🤞


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## Ambers Echo (30 September 2021)

Not getting my hopes up yet but at least I don't have bad news yet either. Just need to wait and see and not think too much about it....


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (30 September 2021)

Cup of coffee and something to take your mind off things.. Hope you get some calming news today AE!   I remember the all to familiar pit of stomach feeling when presented with an unexplained lameness. 
The heat gadget thingy sounds useful, I wish I had had one of those!


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## Bernster (30 September 2021)

Ooh what’s this infrared thermometer thingy?  This sounds useful although i should try to avoid randomly using it and then scaring myself if it flags anything haha.


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## Ambers Echo (30 September 2021)

Bernster said:



			Ooh what’s this infrared thermometer thingy?  This sounds useful although i should try to avoid randomly using it and then scaring myself if it flags anything haha.
		
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https://www.urbanhorse.com/infra_red_laser_thermometer


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## Ambers Echo (30 September 2021)

Vet says highly likely the foot - more likely a bruise than an abscess from the pattern over last 3 weeks -  and if so will settle down without treatment so we are waiting another week rather than stressing her out with more blocks or spending a lot on imaging that probably won't show anything.

She is sounder on it again today. Which is good but......I just want definitive answers!
The handwalking is starting again though so at least she can get out. She is also much more relaxed and happy in herself today. Her expression is softer, she feels gentler. She is more curious in what is going on around her. She's not seemed down throughout really, but she just seems more 'up' if that makes sense. More relaxed and curious, less subdued and grumpy. But overall I think it is good news.


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## AandK (30 September 2021)

That sounds positive, and would make sense if she has done a lot since having her shoes off. My older TB has less than ideal feet and has had bruising quite a few times in the 19yrs I have owned him. Quite often there is no reaction to the hoof testers, and the lameness comes and goes, similar to an abscess.

Do you have any boots you can use to walk her out in, just a suggestion.


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## Ambers Echo (30 September 2021)

Shoes were pulled on August 24th and she was never footy. But she is very playful in the field. She came in lame after a day in the field a couple of weeks after camp. The lameness was linked to swelling up the leg so I think it was an acute injury not something triggered a while ago. Apart from camp she has only ridden on grass or on a surface. So I think it's a field injury but I am no expert on this. I am happy to consider boots but if the bruising resolves over the next few days perhaps she will be fine without? And at this stage it is still a guess that it's a bruise. I'm to update vet next week on how she is doing. If it does not settle fully then we are back to the blocking/imaging plan.


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## AandK (30 September 2021)

If you don't have any boots to hand, then probably not worth considering, but just a thought if you did.

My 8yo managed to bruise his foot in the field recently, but that foot is still compromised from surgery on it 10 months ago, so it wouldn't take much!

Hopefully it is something as simple as a bruise, fingers crossed for you.


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## Tiddlypom (30 September 2021)

If it is bruising, and fingers crossed that it is all it is, then she would benefit from turnout in boots to protect her soles while she recovers. And again, if it is just bruising, she should instantly be more comfortable in boots, so they are quite useful as a diagnostic aid.


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## dixie (30 September 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			If it is bruising, and fingers crossed that it is all it is, then she would benefit from turnout in boots to protect her soles while she recovers. And again, if it is just bruising, she should instantly be more comfortable in boots, so they are quite useful as a diagnostic aid.
		
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This in spades.   Bruises can grumble on for weeks, if she's walking on the bruise or its much closer to the ground it will take much longer to heal.


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## JGC (30 September 2021)

Oh that is sounding very much like good news, so pleased for you Ambers if it's a bruise/abcess!


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## Ambers Echo (2 October 2021)

She’s such a good girl!

‘what’s this,mum?’

She is filthy and her coat is coming out in handfuls but she has not really felt like a fuss so I am keeping grooming to a minimum but once she is feeling better she will have a bath or at leasta very thorough groom!


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## FireCracker238 (2 October 2021)

I adore her 🥰 not ashamed to admit I'm extremely jealous of you AE 🤭, still think red is her colour. I'm so glad she's on the mend, you're such a wonderful mum to her


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## Ambers Echo (2 October 2021)

Well I hope she is on the mend! I am waiting for the farrier and I have measured her feet for boots but I think I did it wrong because she needs the biggest size which can't be right.


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## Ambers Echo (8 October 2021)

Well I am no further on. Farrier did NOT think it was hoof bruise or abcess. Not sore on hoof testers, not consistent with the history: worse on soft not hard. 3 times now she has come sound on boxrest, we have started handwalking and she has promptly gone lame again. She was sound yesterday evening. She is lame this morning on a large circle in a soft arena even in walk. Ok trotting  in straight lines on tarmac. I phoned the vet and he said he would come back Monday to block but she could well be sound again by then so I can't see the point in that. She is booked into the clinic at Somerford for a full lameness workup now. So the idea is she stays there till they work out what is happening. I think TiddlyPom suggested that - should have listened! She is not insured and I can't really afford it but at this point I don't care. I just want answers - good or bad. This cycle of optimism then despair is doing my head in now.

She is getting so much more gentle in the stable. She seemed to actually enjoy being groomed today. Perhaps I will look back at this time as important in cementing our relationship. But I just can't get away from the fear that she is broken and we won't ever get going.


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## TheMule (8 October 2021)

I would get the leg scanned- you say she had heat and swelling originally? Lame on soft not hard would suggest soft tissue and your best hope is for some minor damage on the leg. Worse if it’s in the foot of course as much harder to accurately diagnose.


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## Ambers Echo (8 October 2021)

I asked my vet to scan the leg and he said there was nothing to feel on it - no heat, no swelling, no lumps or bumps, nothing to indicate scanning it. But the clinic will do whatever they think they need to do, which I guess might include scanning.


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## scats (8 October 2021)

So sorry that things still aren’t getting better. Lamer on soft ground often indicates a soft tissue injury so I would definitely be investigating further now.


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## Ambers Echo (8 October 2021)

The (expensive) trip to horsepital is not helping the 'get out of the world of horses, they are a nightmare' vibes from OH either....


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## Goldenstar (8 October 2021)

On the reading of it my best guess is a soft tissue injury within the foot .

It’s rotten luck , I hope they find something without spending thousands and it’s something you can do something about .


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## TPO (8 October 2021)

Is it worth emailing the people who owned her when she was sold to Europe before returning to Ireland? There might be a reason she came back and that might help you narrow down what you could be looking for. I hope that you get a definite answer from the clinic


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## EmmaC78 (8 October 2021)

Also, sorry to hear you are having a tough time.  I have just started riding again after 14 months off due to horse lameness and the stress it brings when they are not right can make it a real struggle to stay positive.  I hope you get some answers soon.


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## Caol Ila (8 October 2021)

So sorry to read this, AE. Really hope they find an answer at the horsepital and it's something curable.


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## NinjaPony (8 October 2021)

So sorry to hear about this, it’s so hard to stay positive when it feels like an endless cycle of lameness. Fingers crossed for some answers and an fixable issue.


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## Squeak (8 October 2021)

Sorry to hear it's not a more positive update yet.  You've had such rotten luck recently and I really hope that you get good news from Somerford.


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## milliepops (8 October 2021)

I would also be pushing to scan at this point, i think it presented with heat and swelling at the start? I've rehabbed my fair share of soft tissue injuries and a couple have shown only fleeting heat and filling and then subsided but been there when we've scanned. Kira's SDFT was like that, it also took 2 scans to find as it was quite small and she wasn't remotely sore on the lesion but it was definitely there.  

Hope it's something easily found and resolved, horses are such a major source of worry.


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## NightStock (8 October 2021)

She looks lovely, hopefully you'll get some answers pretty soon and have a plan of action. It is easy to say and less to do but take it a day at a time and hopefully this will be a distant memory soon.


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## Michen (8 October 2021)

Two horses with soft tissue injuries here neither that had any heat or swelling!


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## ycbm (8 October 2021)

AE could you consider Ashbrook instead?  I fear you are going to end up needing an MRI and W&M i think don't have one and will refer you elsewhere with a delay and additional cost and worry,  but Ashbrook do. They also have the orthopaedic vet who used to head up Leahurst, Ellen.

ETA I am so sorry to read this,  you must be utterly frantic,  especially with no support from your OH. 
.


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## flying_high (8 October 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			The (expensive) trip to horsepital is not helping the 'get out of the world of horses, they are a nightmare' vibes from OH either....
		
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My OH says this too. He says horses are a drain and I become sole focused whenever there is a problem with them!


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## Ambers Echo (9 October 2021)

To be fair my OH is very supportive in general. But I am a bit of a nightmare when it comes to finances.  We bought Lottie from savings funded by the eventual sale of Dolly. Then I had to stop driving my lorry mid season and so bought a trailer on the assumption the lorry would sell easily. Which it didn't. And now vets bills are adding up. He just says we have reached his red line of not spending money we actually don;t have! Borrowing a bit against future sales is how I have done loads of stuff but it does not always work out as planned - Bought Jenny before Max sold and then of course he was retired. Borrowed for Dolly on the future sale of Jenny etc. It all works out in the end though. I just work a bit harder and make more. But he is much more cautious than I am. And actually the money is only part of the issue - it is him seeing the impact of horses going wrong. He loved seeing me out eventing but seeing me weeping into my cornflakes is not selling the joys of horsey life quite as well!


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## Ambers Echo (9 October 2021)

YCBM I might end up MRIing but I am at Somerford running a camp next week anyway and 2 friends have used Claire, at W&M there, and say she was fab in assessing the lameness. Again after their usual vet had no real answers. Said she has a very good eye and can usually tell which bit hurts. So I will start there and see where we end up.


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## ycbm (9 October 2021)

Claire is certainly an expert at lameness issues. 
.


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## Ambers Echo (12 October 2021)

So turns out it’s the pelvis 🙄🙈

Claire is a genius. She watched Lottie trot and canter on the lunge and said she could see why the eye is drawn to right fore - plus that’s where the swelling was and she was better when blocked - but she thought the pelvis of the main source of pain. So she blocked that and Lottie looked amazing. God she moves well. Right  fore appears to have resolved. Treating the pelvis with steroid injections and some sort of wave therapy. Fingers crossed.

Hurray for a vet with a good eye.


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## ycbm (12 October 2021)

Well there's a turn up!  I'm sure you've got a treatment and rehab plan AE, I hope the prognosis  was good. 
.


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## Ambers Echo (12 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			Well there's a turn up!  I'm sure you've got a treatment and rehab plan AE, I hope the prognosis  was good.
.
		
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She’s  staying till Thursday. Claire has a few more things she wants to check out and a treatment plan to start. Yes I’m sure I’ll have plenty of guidance on when/how to bring her back into work. Claire said she optimistic it was fixable. And that ‘she’s a very nice horse!’ Well I know that but nice too hear anyway.


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## DressageCob (12 October 2021)

Sounds like a positive development! Hope she has a speedy recovery. Vets with an excellent eye are worth their weight in gold.


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## DabDab (12 October 2021)

Well that's fantastic that you have some answers at least and know where to focus your energy. Fingers crossed some therapy and rehab will see her right


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## palo1 (12 October 2021)

That is really good progress!  Well done for finding the right person to get the answers too


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## HashRouge (12 October 2021)

Claire's an excellent lameness vet - she diagnosed SI pain in my mare just from a quick look on the lunge!


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## Jeni the dragon (12 October 2021)

Great to hear the vet has managed to pin point the problem and make a plan!


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## Reacher (13 October 2021)

Glad you have a diagnosis and hopefully a treatment plan and speedy recovery


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## SEL (13 October 2021)

I need a Claire down this way - she sounds a star. Relieved for you. Onwards and upwards now hopefully


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## Errin Paddywack (13 October 2021)

We need more vets like Claire.


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## Red-1 (13 October 2021)

Whilst I am glad there is a diagnosis and good prognosis, I am also gutted for you that it wasn't an abscess.


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## splashgirl45 (13 October 2021)

glad you have an answer and it seems to be treatable, fingers crossed for a good recovery


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## ycbm (13 October 2021)

Errin Paddywack said:



			We need more vets like Claire.
		
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We need a vet with her eye for lameness in every practice, but perhaps not a complete copy 😉 
.


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## Ambers Echo (15 October 2021)

So we have a plan! 3 days turn out. 1 week long reining over poles and up hills. 1 week hacking in straight lines in walk. 2 in walk/trot. 2 in w/t/c. Review. And then  hopefully good to go. Everything I did was ineffective (all that hot tubing 🙄) or actively unhelpful - box rest. Sigh. But we do our best with what we know at the time. 

Anyhow I’m sprouting grey hairs: turn out was to get her pelvis mobile. But vet said if she was too exuberant put her in a smaller paddock. Hmmmm - best laid plans …. I popped her in a small paddock with horses nearby and loads of grass. Handgrazed her there then gently unclipped hoping she’d barely notice and just carry on grazing. Maybe have a roll. But she is far too clever and she basically exploded! Problem was that she was in a small space so every 3 strides  she skidded to a halt, spun and galloped another 3 strides! Soon the entire yard was in uproar with every horse on the place galloping around, snorting, bucking and farting. Especially Lottie. Oh ffs! So anyway - bless her, she let me catch her and as soon as I had her she was polite and obedient again. Then I turned her out with Amber in the big field thinking nothing can be worse than what she was doing. She galloped the length of the field  bucking almost every stride, pretty much doing a vertical handstand with every buck. Well she certainly mobilised her pelvis 🙈

A few thoughts:
1) I am so impressed at how polite and obedient she was being led into the field given how much she clearly wanted to run and play
2) She moves very very well!
3) She looks like she’s feeling very very well! 
4) horses are idiots


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## Upthecreek (15 October 2021)

Sounds good… but absolutely horrific watching them tear arse around when you first turn them out 🙈 I never do it in a small paddock as the galloping and skidding to a halt in a confined space is more than my nerves can take. Whilst you obviously don’t want them galloping laps of a large field, I prefer to risk a quick flat out gallop to get it out of their system rather than the galloping/stopping abruptly/turning sharply/looking like they are going to jump the fence in a small paddock. Hope it all goes well and you can crack on with her. She sounds lovely.


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## Ambers Echo (20 October 2021)

Long reining has started. Exercise 1, figure of 8 over 3 poles. So not exactly an easy re-introduction to long reining which I have not done in years. But she was angelic. Spend a while just getting her used to the lines flapping everywhere and draping them over her just in case it went horribly pear shaped but she was totally chilled about it all.

Back on board next week!


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## Ambers Echo (22 October 2021)

She's so clever! We haven't been doing carrot stretches for long and she knows exactly where to go after the one to the stifle! 'Hey mum I'm ready!!'


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## Ambers Echo (29 October 2021)

And we are back on board!!! Hurrah! 

Honestly she was absolutely good as gold. She is so chilled. 

Physio came to see her today. She is not evidently lame - if you did not know how she normally moves (ie straight, swinging and overtracking) , you might think she was sound. But she isn't tracking up and she is swinging over the midline with her back legs instead of flexing - so still guarding that SI joint. But all going in the right direction. And tolerated much more massage of that area than before when she was on the ceiling when it was touched.

Physio again in 2 weeks then vet check 2 weeks after that when hopefully we get the all clear.....


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## SatansLittleHelper (29 October 2021)

Great news, fingers crossed she continues yo improve 👍


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## Michen (29 October 2021)

Awesome! Congrats! xxx


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## Goldenstar (29 October 2021)

That’s really good news .


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## Laurac13 (29 October 2021)

Fingers crossed for you x


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## Ambers Echo (30 October 2021)

Just random musings but I was thinking how important intent is when it comes to horses. Lottie does not tolerate any kind of rough treatment even quite mild. She gets startled or she gets indignant. Until the other day I was tugging a haynet loose and  the knot suddenly came free and my hand shot sideways and punched her on the muzzle 😱😥 . A bit like how I fairly frequently punch myself in the face when I’m doing up a girth!

She just gave a snort and a head shake then looked at he as if to say ‘that was silly’. No fear, no defensive. I love their intelligence x


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## BBP (30 October 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Just random musings but I was thinking how important intent is when it comes to horses. Lottie does not tolerate any kind of rough treatment even quite mild. She gets startled or she gets indignant. Until the other day I was tugging a haynet loose and  the knot suddenly came free and my hand shot sideways and punched her on the muzzle 😱😥 . A bit like how I fairly frequently punch myself in the face when I’m doing up a girth!

She just gave a snort and a head shake then looked at he as if to say ‘that was silly’. No fear, no defensive. I love their intelligence x
		
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I often think that when it comes to smacking and killing horse flies on them. If I was to smack him randomly at any other time being cross he would take it really personally (rightfully so!) but I can belt a horse fly on him and he’s not phased.

I used to groom for a huge TB event horse with a real sense of right and wrong. He was a troubled horse and a vicious biter (broke previous grooms arm and dragged her round by it) but knew in this home that biting was not the right thing to do but you had to be extremely respectful with any discipline. So he would go to bite and generally you ignore him and work round it, but if you slapped him once he would accept it with grace and quit biting and stand quietly. If you got mad and smacked him a second time out of pure being mad (or afraid) at him, he would come back at you like a tiger. I thought he was a great lesson in intent when handling a horse.


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## Red-1 (30 October 2021)

I use this intent thing when training horses not to be spooky. I just did this with my baby one, we got some foam trotting poles out the other day. He was scared of them, I mean, they are bright white, foam filled and blowing in the wind. Very strange. He was scared, I never so much as looked at him, although I could feel him dancing around at the end of the reins. I simply pushed him out of the way, not his business. 

After a few seconds, he got it. Not his business. Get out of mummy's way. She is doing something. 

No 'introducing' him, it simply isn't his concern. A good job, as the next day we were trotting and cantering over them, the wind had them and they were blowing away, flipping and flapping up the school! Not his business. Work continued.

I really think that this is about the intent too.


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## Ambers Echo (30 October 2021)

Yes! Great examples. In one of Mark Rashid’s books he talks about being out riding with his dog and seeing a coyote tracking her. He grabbed his gun and shot the coyote from the back of the horse. He had never desensitised the horse to guns or loud bangs but the horse simply understood that the noise was nothing to do with him and not something he needed to pay any attention to. I think that’s about intent too. 

But maybe you need a horse that is used to communication/connection  via intent? As plenty of horses react to air vest cartridges going off which are nothing to do with them either. And when I ride the RS horses they are often dull to my intent/energy even if they are responsive to my aids.


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## Red-1 (30 October 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			Yes! Great examples. In one of Mark Rashid’s books he talks about being out riding with his dog and seeing a coyote tracking her. He grabbed his gun and shot the coyote from the back of the horse. He had never desensitised the horse to guns or loud bangs but the horse simply understood that the noise was nothing to do with him and not something he needed to pay any attention to. I think that’s about intent too.

But maybe you need a horse that is used to communication/connection  via intent? As plenty of horses react to air vest cartridges going off which are nothing to do with them either. And when I ride the RS horses they are often dull to my intent/energy even if they are responsive to my aids.
		
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I think you are correct. For a while, I went annually over to America to ride with Mark. We did a lot of work. I was lucky enough to ride a couple of his horses, they really are dialled in to the inner story. I brought it home to my own horses, and my teaching. 

I also think it is an explanation as to why I was so shattered in my riding while I have been going through a difficult time personally. My inner energy has been scrambled. My normal way of riding, reading the energy, using thought, was scrambled. I quit teaching, could no longer see the inner story of horse/rider interaction. Or, often I could see it, but didn't trust myself. I sold my mare, felt I couldn't keep myself safe as I could no longer read the situation. Hence Rigsby, he simply didn't care about any inner story. He is pretty safe, read him or not. 

It took 9 months after mum died to re-gain some semblance of inner balance and quietness, and buy a new horse that is sensitive to the inner story.


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## CanteringCarrot (30 October 2021)

A big thing with horses, IMO, is that you have to mean what you say and say what you mean. Mostly this goes for body language and actions.


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## NinjaPony (30 October 2021)

I think intent is really important. Huge difference between a smack to tell them off for a specific reason and a smack because you have lost your temper, and they can always tell. It’s all about body language and tone of voice and they definitely know when it was an accident! If you tell my pony off because he’s been naughty, eg going to bite my sleeve, he will accept it. If I accidentally clunk him with something like a haynet he will give me a filthy look and carry on. If you lose your temper (which is what happened to him before he came to me), he will fly to the back of the stable and then come back at you.

Lottie sounds like a real sweetheart and very intelligent.


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## Ambers Echo (7 November 2021)

Quick update, After our colic scare on Monday she has been right as rain. Phew. And I am back on board. Hurrah. So far I have only hacked around the farm which was also my plan today, seeing as we were in a gale. But despite the wind she was really calm and listening so I decided to take her out into the big wide world for the first time from the saddle. (I have long reined her on the roads).

 She was very relaxed, striding out but very responsive to cues to slow/stop. A car came past and she was fine, then 1 came up from behind which she was less happy about.  I turned her to face it so she could see but then I was facing home and she started to jog. Got past the car ok and decided to walk just a few metres further away from home (not to reward jogging) and to keep her facing away from home even if cars came. Unfortunately the very next vehicle was a large wagon  and she was again tense and trying to turn to see it. So I turned to face it again  and we had the same jogging issue. I allowed the wagon to pass then decided we needed to address this immediately. So she was turned away from home and as soon as she walked calmly (which she did straight away) she was turned back towards home. (Unfortunately our yard is at the end of a mile long dead end lane. So no circular routes are possible.) At first she jogged the moment her feet faced home but after a while the penny dropped and she would walk a few paces before jogging again. By the end she was walking 20 + paces without jogging before the temptation got too much! So little and often doing that makes sense to me. We had a deal that she could march on as long as she stayed in walk. But I did not have her mind or her feet when she was heading home - she did not slow to weight cues etc. For today I accepted that as a good try - staying in walk was obviously hard for her so I took that. But in future I want her more with me even on the way home. Not something I ever achieved with Amber incidentally. But I live in hope!! So a work in progress for sure. But the positives are that she never felt unsafe, she never did anything except tense and try and turn when something was coming up behind and jog when heading home. I think she will be nice to hack. I might get a friend to drive past us in a small car a few times. She needs to get comfortable with vehicles passing her from behind. 

Trot walk can start tomorrow.


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## splashgirl45 (7 November 2021)

that sounds really positive, glad you feel safe on her, thats worth a fortune


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## Ambers Echo (18 November 2021)

And she is ....... SOUND!

Vet very happy with her progress. She has a tonne of work to do. She trails her legs behind as she does not have the range of motion in the pelvis she needs but that can be corrected with work. She is weak, unbalanced, 'upside down', so she needs canter work, poles, core work, gymnastic exercises etc. But I can crack on now with a winter of hacking, schooling etc. 2 weeks of canter work then I can start to jump. And no need to go back for another review unless anything worries me.

I cannot tell you how relieved I am. Fizz tonight!!


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## JGC (18 November 2021)

Great update, so pleased for you


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## Zuzan (18 November 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			And she is ....... SOUND!

Vet very happy with her progress. She has a tonne of work to do. She trails her legs behind as she does not have the range of motion in the pelvis she needs but that can be corrected with work. She is weak, unbalanced, 'upside down', so she needs canter work, poles, core work, gymnastic exercises etc. But I can crack on now with a winter of hacking, schooling etc. 2 weeks of canter work then I can start to jump. And no need to go back for another review unless anything worries me.

I cannot tell you how relieved I am. Fizz tonight!!
		
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It really sounds as if she was produced too fast without getting all those things in place first.. good for you for sticking with her .. She sounds as if she's going to pay you back with huge dividends for the time and effort you're putting in.


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## Ambers Echo (18 November 2021)

Zuzan said:



			It really sounds as if she was produced too fast without getting all those things in place first.
		
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Oh definitely! Vet reckons she has never worked correctly in her life. She was good at showjumping when I first got her but green as grass in every other way and zero topline! I think being forced to rehab her from the ground up will actually help long term as she HAS to work correctly to protect the injury. and I have had to go back to basics with her and get the foundations in place.


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## Quigleyandme (18 November 2021)

Yay! Super news!


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## Asha (18 November 2021)

Great news, such a nice change to read a successful outcome . Look forward to the updates


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## ycbm (18 November 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			And she is ....... SOUND!

Vet very happy with her progress. She has a tonne of work to do. She trails her legs behind as she does not have the range of motion in the pelvis she needs but that can be corrected with work. She is weak, unbalanced, 'upside down', so she needs canter work, poles, core work, gymnastic exercises etc. But I can crack on now with a winter of hacking, schooling etc. 2 weeks of canter work then I can start to jump. And no need to go back for another review unless anything worries me.

I cannot tell you how relieved I am. Fizz tonight!!
		
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Fantastic, so pleased for you. 
.


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## palo1 (18 November 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			And she is ....... SOUND!

Vet very happy with her progress. She has a tonne of work to do. She trails her legs behind as she does not have the range of motion in the pelvis she needs but that can be corrected with work. She is weak, unbalanced, 'upside down', so she needs canter work, poles, core work, gymnastic exercises etc. But I can crack on now with a winter of hacking, schooling etc. 2 weeks of canter work then I can start to jump. And no need to go back for another review unless anything worries me.

I cannot tell you how relieved I am. Fizz tonight!!
		
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Fab news - she will be in safe hands with you and you will both enjoy a winter of productive work.  So delighted for you - she looks a properly good mare.


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## MrsMozart (18 November 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			And she is ....... SOUND!

Vet very happy with her progress. She has a tonne of work to do. She trails her legs behind as she does not have the range of motion in the pelvis she needs but that can be corrected with work. She is weak, unbalanced, 'upside down', so she needs canter work, poles, core work, gymnastic exercises etc. But I can crack on now with a winter of hacking, schooling etc. 2 weeks of canter work then I can start to jump. And no need to go back for another review unless anything worries me.

I cannot tell you how relieved I am. Fizz tonight!!
		
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What wonderful news indeed!


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## splashgirl45 (18 November 2021)

Great !! 😀😀


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## The Fuzzy Furry (18 November 2021)

Blooming great update!  👏🍾🥂


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## Ambers Echo (18 November 2021)

Sat here with a glass of fizz in my hand and a silly grin on my face 🥂😁


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## Squeak (18 November 2021)

Great news. Can’t wait to hear what you get up to with her.


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## Alibear (19 November 2021)

Wonderful news. You two have lots of fun times ahead.


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## Hannahgb (19 November 2021)

So so pleased for you!!


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## southerncomfort (19 November 2021)

Wonderful news!


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## Skib (19 November 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			And when I ride the RS horses they are often dull to my intent/energy even if they are responsive to my aids.
		
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 I have also been to Mark Rashid in USA. And use his advice on RS horses. 
I am a solo hacker of horses ridden by numerous other people. There is a distinction between intent and significance. 
Once we have turned out of the drive and crossed the road for which I use conventional aids, my next move is to tell her that she is being ridden by me. i.e. a Rashid rider.
On this particular mare, I have not yet found it possibe to ride the very first transition to trot wthout using some leg.  But once I bring her back to walk and ask for trot again, I can just think it,  i.e. raised energy.
But the thinking needs to accompanied by something else. The removal of any obstacles to forward movement. And her willingness to work her hind legs so she doesnt stumble. There is a big difference between what one can hopefully do in a sand school and what works well on rough ground out in the open.


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## AandK (19 November 2021)

Wonderful news! Being sound is a great place to start, now you can start from scratch and build her up. Look forward to hearing more as she progresses!


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## Ambers Echo (12 December 2021)

Lottie progress report.

We have cracked on with core work using a pro core trainer and lots of poles. Have also started schooling her, trying to get her to engage her core and work over her back. And have started hacking which is a lot easier now we are in hacking heaven   To start with Lottie was jogging towards home but finally she has stopped doing that and today we managed to walk home on the buckle in a nice relaxed walk. Huge progress. So much nicer not to be sat on a joggy, spinny Lottie for half the hack. She is also now striding out much more confidently on the way out. So far all my hacking has been solo because arranging things with others just hasn't worked out. I can't do when they can and vice versa. But she is becoming much easier to hack. And I am loving the views:


















She is working well in the school and giving me moments of nice work but is not at all consisent yet.








 I also think she is also defintely getting stronger. The saggy belly, ‘pregnant lady pose’ pic was taken on 20th November and I took a progress pic today. I think there is a clear difference. Her coat is shinier, smoother and softer and she is looking more toned.













She gets very sweaty when ridden and the plan is to clip her but she was deeply unimpressed by that. She has spent years on the SJ circuit so she has obviously been clipped before but her fairly explosive reaction suggests she has been sedated to do it. I don't want to go down that road if I can help it so instead we got her used to the noise and the touch of it separately till that was ok and are taking off a very small amount at a time, with her 'permission'. I think after 2-3 more goes she will be ok  with it.

So all in all, feeling pretty good about things. Long may it last. I never count on anything anymore but just appreciate these little victories, and hope we get some consistent progress now. I have hopes and dreams for us..... But they are locked in the 'maybe one day' part of my brain and for now I am happy to just get her fitter, stronger, mnore trusting and more educated, both ridden and in terms of handling.


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## chaps89 (12 December 2021)

I’ll admit sometimes when I see before and after photos on here I can’t really see a lot of difference 🙈
But there’s a clear difference between those 2 photos, well done you putting the work in.
I’m also a tad jealous of your hacking!!!


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## Ambers Echo (12 December 2021)

chaps89 said:



			I’ll admit sometimes when I see before and after photos on here I can’t really see a lot of differenceg!!!




			Haha, I can't either! I sometimes think 'which is which' 
I was hoping I was not kidding myself but the difference is even more obvious in real life. When I took her to the vet I said 'could she be pregnant, she looks so fat' and the vet said she actually was not overwight but just had a saggy belly from having lost all her top line and core muscles in 6 weeks of box rest and from moving incorrectly to protect the injured area.

She looks totally different to me now.
		
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## SEL (12 December 2021)

Huge difference! So glad she is working out - you deserve a run of good luck. Totally jealous of your hacking. I miss really good "get away from it all" hacking.


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## Red-1 (12 December 2021)

What a lovely progress report!


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## scats (12 December 2021)

Lovely report and I am so delighted for you x


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## Trouper (12 December 2021)

She is definitely looking a toned and happier girl.   Feet looking great, too!!


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## SatansLittleHelper (12 December 2021)

Definitely can see the change, she's looking good..!!! So pleased it's fi ally coming together a bit more for you x


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## Sam_J (13 December 2021)

Lovely update, really pleased for you


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## Ambers Echo (2 January 2022)

Another day, another hack! Not done the same one twice yet. I am really impressed with Lottie's attitude. She is sure footed, non spooky, polite. Today we went on a faster hack for rhe first time and had 4 canters. She didn't lose her head or hot up. She went from canter to on the buckle to walking with no problems at all. Also coped with about 30 dirt bikes. She's a little star.

The only problem we had was the first canter was across a field and then turning right uphill at the wall and she needed a lot of persuasion to turn. I think she thought we were going wall hopping. Nooooooo!


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## Ambers Echo (17 January 2022)

So we have started jumping - well just raised poles really - laid out as a 'course' and she was very stressed by it all. She was ok in the summer but she had been jumped regularly by the schooling livery person. I have just messaged her and she said she rushed the fences at first but got better so when I first started riding her she was ok. But she then had several months without seeing a pole ib a jumping context. (She walks oer poles as part of rehab). When we re-introduced x-poles/ raised poles that she viewed as jumps  it was like she just closed her eyes and ran at them! She also sweats up immediately though she can do fast hilly hacks without breaking a sweat at all.

Looked online again at her record and discovered she started competing affiliated at THREE YEARS 8 MONTHS! Technically 4 but actually just 3. Started at 90 then stepped up to 100 at 4 years 1 month and was out almost every weekend till she was shipped off to Sweden.

So I think she has been rushed/overjumped and the whole thing just stresses her out. So we are taking things right back to basics with the aim of changing her perception of what jumping is all about. It depends how she gets on but my absolute priority with her is to fill the many, many gaps in her education and I am in no hurry at all to compete her.


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## Ambers Echo (17 January 2022)

I guess all the 4 year old classes have 3 year olds in them till summer. Which is why I hate young horse classes! To be ready to compete at 3 years 8 months, when did they start jumping her? And how much time did they take to get her ok with each step? Makes me sad and angry. Just no need.


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## ihatework (17 January 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			I guess all the 4 year old classes have 3 year olds in them till summer. Which is why I hate young horse classes! To be ready to compete at 3 years 8 months, when did they start jumping her? And how much time did they take to get her ok with each step? Makes me sad and angry. Just no need.
		
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I agree, I don’t like 4yo classes.
But to play devils advocate, for a talented natural jumper with a good jockey it doesn’t take much to prep some for 90/100 at all. You also can’t be sure what has gone on between Ireland-Sweden-Ireland and it’s more than possible it’s this period in her life that is that problem, not her jumping as a young horse. I find amateurs very quick to blame ‘done too much as a young horse’, to try and explain issues in new ownership. Sometimes they are valid, sometimes they aren’t!


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## Ambers Echo (17 January 2022)

Maybe it was Sweden but this is a horse who is scared of/dislikes people but super willing under saddle. Intelligent, great work ethic takes everything in her stride. You can really see her thinking, trying to work things out, wanting to please. Apart from jumping which makes her switch her brain off and just run. So something has happened and I feel if she had been produced with confidence in mind she would be fine now. She isn't so it makes sense to me that she did too mucn too young and just finds the whole thing very aversive.

She was competed by a pro at a metre just before being sold at auction to the dealer I bought her from. But was rushing and tense when ridden by a pro as soon as she was in England very shortly afterwards. So I think she has probably always been willing to try and therefore a good enough rider can mask the gaps. I can't and I would not want to even if I could.


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## bouncing_ball (17 January 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			So we have started jumping - well just raised poles really - laid out as a 'course' and she was very stressed by it all. She was ok in the summer but she had been jumped regularly by the schooling livery person. I have just messaged her and she said she rushed the fences at first but got better so when I first started riding her she was ok. But she then had several months without seeing a pole ib a jumping context. (She walks oer poles as part of rehab). When we re-introduced x-poles/ raised poles that she viewed as jumps  it was like she just closed her eyes and ran at them! She also sweats up immediately though she can do fast hilly hacks without breaking a sweat at all.

Looked online again at her record and discovered she started competing affiliated at THREE YEARS 8 MONTHS! Technically 4 but actually just 3. Started at 90 then stepped up to 100 at 4 years 1 month and was out almost every weekend till she was shipped off to Sweden.

So I think she has been rushed/overjumped and the whole thing just stresses her out. So we are taking things right back to basics with the aim of changing her perception of what jumping is all about. It depends how she gets on but my absolute priority with her is to fill the many, many gaps in her education and I am in no hurry at all to compete her.
		
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How old is she now? And where are you in her rehab? I do a lot of ground pole work aiming for back strengthening.


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## Ambers Echo (17 January 2022)

She is 9 this year. She has been signed off by the vet after 2 months of a vet -directed rehab plan for SI injuries. So we are back in full work. But with a focus on on-going core work ro strengthen her back. So lots of hacking, hills, poles etc and just starting to jump again.

We have done loads of poles/raised poles as rehab both inhand and ridden which she does not consider 'jumping' and is totally fine with. But at some point she thinks 'oh this is jumping' and gets tense. So now we are mixing up loads of flatwork stuff with the odd jump. Today was a Warwick Schiller bend to a halt from trot exercise - so a single x pole then bend to a soft halt with her attention on the rider. Took 4-5 goes before she landed and reconnected immediately and softly came to a stop. Before that it was land and run off. She's getting there.


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## bouncing_ball (17 January 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			She was competed by a pro at a metre just before being sold at auction to the dealer I bought her from. But was rushing and tense when ridden by a pro as soon as she was in England very shortly afterwards. So I think she has probably always been willing to try and therefore a good enough rider can mask the gaps. I can't and I would not want to even if I could.
		
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I’m confused, I thought you took her to riding club camp snd jumping pretty soon after getting her home? And she was good?


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## bouncing_ball (17 January 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			She is 9 this year. She has been signed off by the vet after 2 months of a vet -directed rehab plan for SI injuries. So we are back in full work. But with a focus on on-going core work ro strengthen her back. So lots of hacking, hills, poles etc and just starting to jump again.

We have done loads of poles/raised poles as rehab both inhand and ridden which she does not consider 'jumping' and is totally fine with. But at some point she thinks 'oh this is jumping' and gets tense. So now we are mixing up loads of flatwork stuff with the odd jump. Today was a Warwick Schiller bend to a halt from trot exercise - so a single x pole then bend to a soft halt with her attention on the rider. Took 4-5 goes before she landed and reconnected immediately and softly came to a stop. Before that it was land and run off. She's getting there.
		
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Sounds like a good exercise, and good progress.


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## Ambers Echo (17 January 2022)

BB wrote: I’m confused, I thought you took her to riding club camp snd jumping pretty soon after getting her home? And she was good?



Ambers Echo said:



			She was ok in the summer but she had been jumped regularly by the schooling livery person. I have just messaged her and she said she rushed the fences at first but got better so when I first started riding her she was ok. But she then had several months without seeing a pole ib a jumping context.
r.
		
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Yes I said that in my post. I took her to camp after 10 days of having her. But she had spent 2-3 weeks on schooling livery then. And yes she was fine but then had a long gap and she was not fine on her return to jumping post injury. I could just jump her a few more times and she would probably think 'ok this is ok' but I imagine every time we step up a height or put her under more stress she will go back to being unhappy so this time I am taking it right bacl to the beginning.


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## flying_high (17 January 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			BB wrote: I’m confused, I thought you took her to riding club camp snd jumping pretty soon after getting her home? And she was good?



Yes I said that in my post. I took her to camp after 10 days of having her. But she had spent 2-3 weeks on schooling livery then. And yes she was fine but then had a long gap and she was not fine on her return to jumping post injury. I could just jump her a few more times and she would probably think 'ok this is ok' but I imagine every time we step up a height or put her under more stress she will go back to being unhappy so this time I am taking it right bacl to the beginning.
		
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It seems a bit odd to me that she was okay jumping at lots of competitions abroad.

Comes to England and jumps okay at sales yard.

You take her to camp and she jumps with a strange non-professional rider, at a strange place, both poles and XC and she jumps okay.

You might expect a major loss of jumping confidence at each change, if her jumping confidence wasn’t solid?

You don’t think it might be a pain memory that is more recent linked to the SI injury and jumping in pain?


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## Ambers Echo (17 January 2022)

She didn't jump ok at the Sales yard. I contacted the pro to ask her what she had been like and she said she was tense and rushing, 'numb to aids' but she got better the more she did at that yard. I don't know why she did not tell me that at the time but maybe she thought she'd fixed it.

But yes maybe it's remembered pain. But she was tense and sweating just schooling round poles set up between jump wings but fine with much more intense exercise that she did not label as 'jumps' so I don't think so tbh. Plus she was injured in a field accident. It was not linked to jumping in pain. Anyway whatever caused rhe problem, she definitely is stressed now. But I also think she will relax again quickly. We shall see.


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## flying_high (17 January 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			She didn't jump ok at the Sales yard. I contacted the pro to ask her what she had been like and she said she was tense and rushing, 'numb to aids' but she got better the more she did at that yard. I don't know why she did not tell me that at the time but maybe she thought she'd fixed it.

But yes maybe it's remembered pain. But she was tense and sweating just schooling round poles set up between jump wings but fine with much more intense exercise that she did not label as 'jumps' so I don't think so tbh. Plus she was injured in a field accident. It was not linked to jumping in pain. Anyway whatever caused rhe problem, she definitely is stressed now. But I also think she will relax again quickly. We shall see.
		
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Will keep fingers crossed, sounds like she has a thorough and considerate owner, taking time to get things physically right, and put in all the foundations.


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## Ambers Echo (17 January 2022)

Thank-you! I am not a good enough rider to just control a horse who tries to take over. So I need to get her on-side anyway with a lot of back-to-basics work but i think that probably helps her too. Even if it takes me far longer to get anywhere.


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## Ambers Echo (27 January 2022)

Another update: Multi-pronged approach to help her relax when jumping. I've started occasionally schooling her in her jumping tack with jumps up in the arena instead of clearing the arena and wearing her dressage tack. Partly to help me adjust how I ride in both saddles but also to get her more chilled around poles and jumps and in jump tack. At first she was clearly thinking "we are jumping" and locked on to any jump that crossed her eyeline. But now she ignores the jumps and I have started just randomly popping one then carrying on schooling as if nothing has happened.  I have also taken her out and about twice more - to the tech arena at Somerford and to a SJ hire venue. The trainer in that awful lesson had me jump and halt in a straight line before the turn which I see the logic of, but it meant an abrupt, not very smooth regaining of control and a stressed Lottie. I tried someone else at Somerford and she wanted me to take my time to get Lottie back to avoid a fight. And to regain control of the canter smoothly then work the canter, then drop to trot then work the trot and then pop another log and repeat. It worked a lot, lot better and she was coming back to me calmly and smoothly much more quickly. Best of all she was not sweating up. Whereas a couple of weeks ago just working with poles out left her dripping. So not sure what was bothereing her but she seems to be making peace with the concept of jumps now.

We are in a decent routine of 6 days work and 1 day rest a week. I have built up the duration slowly and now adding more intensity too and riding on as wide a variety of surfaces as possible. I am very keen to be consistent and am using my lovely Secret Santa diary as my Lottie Progress Diary to plan and track every session along with a white board which has 2 weeks of work written up in advance and I have to tick off each session with a comment.  It is really helping with motivation as so many days I'm tired, it's pelting down with rain etc etc and I am tempted to think 'sod it' but then having to put a cross next to a session is painful so I am getting them all done.  Not missed a single training session yet this year. Though of course I adjust the plans if necessary. But my new mantra is I can only skip sessions in LOTTIE's interests. Not because I can't be bothered. Working so far. Feeling pleased with her progress and delighted with her attitude.


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## JGC (27 January 2022)

That sounds like great progress, well done. I think you do a much better job than you give yourself credit for - I'd let you ride mine and I don't say that very often 

Is the two-week plan something you work out yourself or is it done with your trainer? I have a tendancy to skip sessions in winter (especially as I do have to adapt to weather - the school is still under snow and not open ...) and, hopefully, I am about to go back to two horses so I can't really afford too many off days. I think a plan/whiteboard might help.


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## Ambers Echo (27 January 2022)

I work it out myself using SportHorse Soundness and Performance book. The whiteboard is fabulous!! Has made a massive difference.


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## Bernster (28 January 2022)

Great update AE. I was reading your previous post thinking, I wonder how she’s dealing with the rushing issue, as I have the same issue with Bertie (to some extent). Then you posted!  Makes a lot of sense. I’m going to try the schooling with the odd jump in between.

We have some of our same issues working over poles so I can practice without always having to be jumping, which sounds like something you’ve worked through and isn’t an issue now with Lottie.

I try to keep a diary but it’s of what we’ve done. I’m not great at planning ahead other than general aims. But I’m very task orientated and don’t like to fail, so your whiteboard idea sounds like it would really help to motivate me!


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## Ambers Echo (29 January 2022)

Super happy with Lottie. Winds were too high for towing so I abandoned the Somerford plan and schooled instead. The wind was gusting over 50mph. The horses who had been turned out were galloping up and down the arena fence line as the field is bounded by the arena end. Leaves were being pulled off the trees and flying in our faces. We dealt with heavy sideways rain. And Lottie was a SUPERSTAR. She was a bit spooky for a few minutes then settled and got on with it. Her work ethic is remarkable.

Our focus was on smooth transitions between halt, walk and trot.

Derssage numpty alert: It was the best schooling session I have ever had and I am trying to articulate why. I am sure what was happenning is really very basic but I felt moments of connection that I have never felt on any horse before. And I can't really expain what was happening but maybe some of you can! (I am sure a lot of readers will be eye rolling that this is a revelation but anyway).  Normally when I ask her to slow or speed up within the trot, one of 2 things happens: she does slow but she sort of also loses energy or drops behind the leg so when I ask for trot again - she is willing enough but there is this tiny lag as she gets back up to speed again. Or she is heavy in the hand and although she does slow, I know that if I soften the rein or stop blocking with my seat she will just speed up again.

Today I could ask and she would come back to me and I'd just sit on that. Soft rein, relaxed on top with her maintaining the rhythm. Right down to a slow jog. And then when I wanted more I'd ask and the energy was there and she would just surge forward. It felt totally unlike any other session I have had. I am buzzing. Poor Lottie - I was having such a great session that we were out there for ages. And came back in as wet as if we had been swimming on the sea. But so worth it.

A very happy AE today.


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## Ambers Echo (29 January 2022)

Just to add -  the thing that is puzzling me and felt different is that when Lottie was trotting slowly - almost jogging - I could feel that she was still right there with me and that energy was available as soon as I wanted it. But how did I know that? That might seem a really silly question but I honestly don't know.


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## Roxylola (29 January 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			Just to add -  the thing that is puzzling me and felt different is that when Lottie was trotting slowly - almost jogging - I could feel that she was still right there with me and that energy was available as soon as I wanted it. But how did I know that? That might seem a really silly question but I honestly don't know.
		
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*Feeeeeeeelllll*
You're learning to ride what's under you instead of following direction 🥰
We abandoned somerford too - going tomorrow instead. A borrowed box and someone else's (and my) pride and joy in this seemed a bit foolish


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## Upthecreek (29 January 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			Just to add -  the thing that is puzzling me and felt different is that when Lottie was trotting slowly - almost jogging - I could feel that she was still right there with me and that energy was available as soon as I wanted it. But how did I know that? That might seem a really silly question but I honestly don't know.
		
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Because you are creating impulsion without increasing speed she probably feels more powerful and collected. Love that feeling of really starting to gel with a horse.


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## Ambers Echo (1 February 2022)

And just when it felt like it was going well!!

Frustrating lesson on Lottie. She is weak and unbalanced in left canter, rushes and falls in. And there were too many things I needed to do to correct it

- More effective use of inside leg to keep her out and stop her bulging into that leg
- More consistent outside rein
- Half halting with seat and outside rein to slow her down
- Flex and release inside rein to stop her looking to the outside
- Maintain my posiiton.
- Look where I was going (!)

It was too hard - I was doing everything mechanically with no timing or feel and she was just not responding. Outside hand was bouncing, inside rein was fixing, inside leg was ineffective, I was losing position. She was wall of deathing. Argghh what a mess. I stopped, saying 'I'm just training her how NOT to canter' and my RI got on to give her a better experience and end on a better feeling than my awful attempt. Still, the trot work was nice and I need to keep reminding myself that I am trying to do a hard thing well. And not every session is going to feel good. My RI says she feels a lot worse than she looks as she kind of throws you around but I think she was just being nice.

 On a more postive note, at the end of the lesson I felt like there had been no harmony, no connection. So I tried some liberty with her to re-connect and she was fab. It's not something I have trained her to do. It's just something I enjoy occasionally and played around with with Amber and so I tried it for the first time a few weeks ago and she was totally disconnected from me. Would not be drawn at all. And just ran away from any drive aids. So this was a huge improvement and I ended up drawing and driving her all over the arena with her glued to my shoulder. Ending with a jog to a halt and she was happy to speed up then stop sweetly and wait to see what was happening next. She seemed very curious and relaxed about this new game so I will do more of this for sure. I guess she forgave my sh1t riding!


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## Asha (1 February 2022)

Dont be so hard on yourself ! Im sure it wasnt as bad as you think. Ive had the same issue with the left rein in canter.  Wont bore you with the details, but what helped was leg yielding.  Plus a fantastic session at the physio for me.


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## Ambers Echo (1 February 2022)

If 'the details' could help I am all ears!


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## JGC (1 February 2022)

That's the thing about riding - it is simultaneously ridiculously simple and excruciatingly complex!

My horses going well for a pro has always been something I've struggled with. But do you know what? There is nothing surprising about someone who has probably ridden for 1000s more hours and on 100s more horses than I have being better at it than me! 

In a similar vein, I always used to get upset at not being great at playing the piano - but then I never practice! So now I have come to a place where I can just enjoy the practice and not compare myself constantly to "how I think I should be". And I am working hard to do the same for riding.

Paul Belasik tells a story in one of his books (can't remember which one, I'm afraid) about a very harsh dressage judge. Turns out that dressage judge was such a perfectionist that he hadn't ridden for years as he could never meet the ideal that he imagined for himself.

Sorry, AE, I might have wandered off topic a bit there


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## Ambers Echo (1 February 2022)

JGC said:



			Sorry, AE, I might have wandered off topic a bit there 

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No, that's all very interesting! I am trying to be patient and accept that there are no short cuts and I just need to put in the hours. We will get there. Or somewhere further along from here anyway.


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## Asha (1 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			If 'the details' could help I am all ears!
		
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Im crooked, and Pip can be a little stiff/one sided to start with. Always has been. I took her for a full vet check the other week, as id convinced myself she must be lame. Spent way too many ££ to establish shes absolutely fine. Popped a pro rider on her, no problem with left rein. Had a lesson with my regular chap who made it clear what was going wrong. pro riders are stronger than me, and can just make it happen.  We hadnt done flatwork for quite some time so she was a little stiff, so we did plenty of leg yielding got her going like she was precovid. Hey presto left rein canter was back, so much so she was offering it at every opportunity. I felt like a prize plum. 
The fact that my left hip has been causing me problems has left me weaker there. Found a new physio and in one session has made more of a difference than all the physios put together.  So it really was a combination of loosening us both up.


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## Ambers Echo (1 February 2022)

I'm glad you found a fairly simple solution! Leg yielding is a good idea. She needs to move off that leg.


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## DiNozzo (1 February 2022)

Next time it feels horrendous, get someone to video it. Especially if your instructor is there. 

You can visualise it, rather than 'feel' it, and you can learn to match those things up. "if it feels like that, the instructor wants me to do this", and you'll have it so you can go back to it and hear those instructions again.

And also, your RI was probably telling you the truth 😉 and that it really wasn't that bad.


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## scats (1 February 2022)

A little tip that I was taught many years ago that has never let me down with unbalanced/falling-in canters.
Sometimes, by putting your inside leg on an unbalanced horse, they either ‘prop’ against it, or you end up shifting the rib cage over and chucking them onto their inside shoulder.  This obviously exacerbates the falling in problem.
Pop your inside leg a little further forward than feels right, sort of between girth and elbow. Then try and use your ankle rather than calf, sort of bend your foot in and just lightly support the horse.  Then concentrate the rest of your energy on you and your position.  The result is pretty much instantaneous.  You can use this little nugget while you develop the canter and you’ll find you can eventually leave your leg in the ‘correct’ position.
It’s one of the most useful tips I’ve ever been given and it’s never failed me.


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## Ambers Echo (1 February 2022)

Thanks Scats I will definitely try that.


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## Ambers Echo (2 February 2022)

Read something interesting the other day.

Author talks about neutral - horse feeling relaxed and contented in her 'sweet spot' and active neutral - horse feeling relaxed and contented while moving. The sweet spot could be in the stable or under a tree, active neutral is running or playing with the herd. The challenge is to help the horse find both neutral and active/neutral with us. He says it is very common for performance horses to have no 'active neutral' while working. They go into the ring, work, go back to barn and only relax there. So over time they get more and more wired.

This really fits Lottie. Lottie had no 'neutral' when with humans before. She would not just stand relaxed once you were on her. As soon as the bum hit the saddle she was offering movement, head tossing, chomping, pawing, fidgeting. I have done loads of work on this. Just 'reading the paper' while on her back. Mount. Do nothing. Dismount. Mount, sit there. Faff for ages. Amble a few paces, Do nothing again, Get off etc. She has become very good at being horse-as-sofa. And just chills out waiting for instruction.  Now she needs to finds active neutral too while moving and especially while jumping.

I am sure a good rider could get on Lottie and hold her together to jump a round. But I still think she'd be tense while doing it. I remember that trip to Weston Lawns for a stay away SJ  with Amber. Horses rearing, napping, spinning, spooking all over the place - then going in and jumping clear. I hated that. That's not what I want with Lottie.


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## Caol Ila (2 February 2022)

I like that article. I've been working on finding "active happy neutral" with my Highland, not because he's a super wired peformance horse (LOL), but to get him to a happy, confident space while out carrying a rider. Not tense, not trying to freeze and plant. I have been informed that freeze and plant is a go-to behaviour of the Dallas feral ponies when they are unsure -- he's not doing it to be a dick -- so I try to encourage him forward, but not too forcefully. Smacking him with the whip would probably be unhelpful. If he's really stuck, it's better to send trail buddy in front. If out on my own, it's better to get off and lead for a few yards. When he is pottering down the trail in a relaxed and forward manner, I try to sit as quietly as humanly possible and tell him he's the best horse in the world.

I would love to have Mark Rashid work with this horse -- I think Mark would understand him because he knows BLM mustangs -- but that can't happen because both the horse and myself have had fall-outs with the yard where he does Scottish clinics. You know about mine, but Fin had an entirely unrelated fall-out with them, all on his own! Amazing.


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## scats (2 February 2022)

I’ve really turned a corner with Polly recently. She is the complete opposite of Millie- completely wired all the time. The second your bum hits the saddle, she’s off. She wants to go, go, go and is always such a ‘busy’ horse 
She’s had a lot of time off over the years due to PSD and various other issues, so work has been inconsistent. But I’ve now got her to the stage that I can get on and walk her without her jogging and fighting to go.  It sounds so simple but it’s been so difficult to achieve with her.  The fact that our first trot of each session is now one that I have asked for is a massive breakthrough.


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## Ambers Echo (2 February 2022)

Caol Ila said:



			I would love to have Mark Rashid work with this horse -- I think Mark would understand him because he knows BLM mustangs -- but that can't happen because both the horse and myself have had fall-outs with the yard where he does Scottish clinics. You know about mine, but Fin had an entirely unrelated fall-out with them, all on his own! Amazing.
		
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How did that come about?

Mark might travel to a new venue? I hosted a Kathleen Lindlay clinic a while back and am hoping to persuade Tik Maynard to run a camp with me. If you can’t get enough people together for a camp you might find trainers will do 1:1s if they are nearby anyway. Joe Midgely is coming to our yard just for Lottie. Guy Robertson also does private sessions.

 Trainers need bookings and while he’s in Scotland he might squeeze another visit in.


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## TPO (2 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			How did that come about?

Mark might travel to a new venue? I hosted a Kathleen Lindlay clinic a while back and am hoping to persuade Tik Maynard to run a camp with me. If you can’t get enough people together for a camp you might find trainers will do 1:1s if they are nearby anyway. Joe Midgely is coming to our yard just for Lottie. Guy Robertson also does private sessions.

Trainers need bookings and while he’s in Scotland he might squeeze another visit in.
		
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Joe Midgley comes to Scotland regularly and is back in Kinross in March. Can't recommend him highly enough, he has a really nice way around horses.


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## Ambers Echo (2 February 2022)

We sent him some video of Lottie: her grumpy behaviour in the stable & her rushing over poles - and he’s going to come next weekend to give me and Lottie’s sharer a lesson. His feedback so far is just as we expected: she is tense/stressed around poles/jumps. Looking forward to it x


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## TPO (2 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			We sent him some video of Lottie: her grumpy behaviour in the stable & her rushing over poles - and he’s going to come next weekend to give me and Lottie’s sharer a lesson. His feedback so far is just as we expected: she is tense/stressed around poles/jumps. Looking forward to it x
		
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I think it'll be money well spend. He's as good on their backs as on the ground. Just a lovely, decent, down to earth guy and his interactions with the horses when not "doing" anything says a lot (IMO).


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## Caol Ila (2 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			How did that come about?

Mark might travel to a new venue? I hosted a Kathleen Lindlay clinic a while back and am hoping to persuade Tik Maynard to run a camp with me. If you can’t get enough people together for a camp you might find trainers will do 1:1s if they are nearby anyway. Joe Midgely is coming to our yard just for Lottie. Guy Robertson also does private sessions.

Trainers need bookings and while he’s in Scotland he might squeeze another visit in.
		
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You don’t know if you don’t ask. Maybe he’d be keen to help a fellow Coloradan.

Foinavon’s ground manners are awesome— I don’t know if the training yard in question did that, or if it was the trainer who tamed and backed him. But I’ll give them a bit of credit.

Under saddle, however, he was a mess. I knew he’d been ridden a grand total of twice before first trainer had a bad accident (not on him) and had to stop working. From what his previous owner said, it sounds like he did his wild pony freeze-and-plant at the training yard, and they interpreted it as being dominant and stubborn (rather than scared and overwhelmed by life), and told his owner that he’d thrown a “tantrum” but they had powered through it. They said he could maybe be a trekking pony. Or an unridden therapy pony. Clearly, they didn't think a lot of him. It has taken me six months to bring him around to the idea that arenas are kind of fine and not like walking into Mordor or the Blight (pick your favourite fantasy series), so whatever they did to “win” when he had "tantrums" was maybe not the most effective horse training going.

If it had been a normal breaking yard, I would have been less annoyed, but -- same as with my old horse -- they have an epic amount of PR plugging themselves as horse-centric/natural horsemanship/problem horse/ yadda yadda gurus. I am not a guru; I'm not Mark or Tik  or Joe Midgley or Warwick Schiller or any of these people. I'm a muddling one-horse amateur, an extremely average rider, but I can get through to this horse. He can't be that difficult.


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## Ambers Echo (3 February 2022)

So Fin was backed at the place Mark R does his clinics? You can’t get away from there! 

Never meet your heroes, eh. I think Mark R is the real deal. But if he’s supportiing people who obviously aren’t then that is very disappointing.  It’s hard to believe after all these years of doing clinics with them that he wouldn’t have noticed a bit of a skills gap between the marketing hype and the  reality!!


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## TPO (3 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			So Fin was backed at the place Mark R does his clinics? You can’t get away from there!

Never meet your heroes, eh. I think Mark R is the real deal. But if he’s supportiing people who obviously aren’t then that is very disappointing.  It’s hard to believe after all these years of doing clinics with them that he wouldn’t have noticed a bit of a skills gap between the marketing hype and the  reality!!
		
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Equally I know numerous people who have trained at that yard/with her (with and without Mark), and they have nothing but good things to say about them. There are at least two sides to every story.


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## Ambers Echo (3 February 2022)

Not to mention - after all these years of doing clinics with them, why aren’t they more skilled?

My favourite part of Mark’s training is the way he views issues  as a sort of puzzle.
Takes a step back to work out the WHY of behaviour.

So long term students of his with their own training yard just going with the lazy assumptions of ‘stubbornness’ and beating on him beggars belief really.

Maybe a good metric for evaluating a horse trainer is to look at their students? Buck Brannaman has trained Betsy Steiner (Grand Prix Dressage Rider) and - I think-  Beezie Madden. Mark ?


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## Ambers Echo (3 February 2022)

TPO said:



			Equally I know numerous people who have trained at that yard/with her (with and without Mark), and they have nothing but good things to say about them. There are at least two sides to every story.
		
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Yes fair enough. But writing off a pony who an amateur then does very well with is not really a very good look! And this isn’t hearsay- this is CI’s actual experiences with her own horses


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## Ambers Echo (3 February 2022)

Well changing the subject back to my efforts to raise my game for Lottie: today I have an Ingestre day: classroom session, giving  a lunge lesson, having a lunge lesson, having a group supervised schooling lesson, then private jump lesson. Then going to work Lottie! Wish me luck 😂


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## Red-1 (3 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			How did that come about?

Mark might travel to a new venue? I hosted a Kathleen Lindlay clinic a while back and am hoping to persuade Tik Maynard to run a camp with me. If you can’t get enough people together for a camp you might find trainers will do 1:1s if they are nearby anyway. Joe Midgely is coming to our yard just for Lottie. Guy Robertson also does private sessions.

Trainers need bookings and while he’s in Scotland he might squeeze another visit in.
		
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Hey, I would be onterested in any interesting clinics you run. Could board my horse nearby or whatever. 


Caol Ila said:



			You don’t know if you don’t ask. Maybe he’d be keen to help a fellow Coloradan.

Foinavon’s ground manners are awesome— I don’t know if the training yard in question did that, or if it was the trainer who tamed and backed him. But I’ll give them a bit of credit.

Under saddle, however, he was a mess. I knew he’d been ridden a grand total of twice before first trainer had a bad accident (not on him) and had to stop working. From what his previous owner said, it sounds like he did his wild pony freeze-and-plant at the training yard, and they interpreted it as being dominant and stubborn (rather than scared and overwhelmed by life), and told his owner that he’d thrown a “tantrum” but they had powered through it. They said he could maybe be a trekking pony. Or an unridden therapy pony. Clearly, they didn't think a lot of him. It has taken me six months to bring him around to the idea that arenas are kind of fine and not like walking into Mordor or the Blight (pick your favourite fantasy series), so whatever they did to “win” when he had "tantrums" was maybe not the most effective horse training going.

If it had been a normal breaking yard, I would have been less annoyed, but -- same as with my old horse -- they have an epic amount of PR plugging themselves as horse-centric/natural horsemanship/problem horse/ yadda yadda gurus. I am not a guru; I'm not Mark or Tik  or Joe Midgley or Warwick Schiller or any of these people. I'm a muddling one-horse amateur, an extremely average rider, but I can get through to this horse. He can't be that difficult.
		
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I have ridden with Mark quite a lot, both in England and America. I would say he is the real deal. I had a Kathleen clinic in England too., it was fabulous, as well as riding with her at Mark's/Dave's. In fact, the clinic I went to here was her first solo clinic when she set up separately from Mark, she was great!

I have also visited the yard in question. I found them to be on a different wavelength. They do have nice stabling, and say the right things initially, but I found them fairly intractable in how they actually operate. I also watched them give a lesson on a school horse which was obviously... erm... unlevel. There seemed to be little progress but much oooh-ing and ahhh-ing about how well it was going. It was actually painful to watch, so I stopped watching.


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## Red-1 (3 February 2022)

AE, I had a fab lesson on my new horse (which you inspired me to get!) yesterday. But, that was on the back of a lesson last week that was not great. The fact that I felt we weren't going well, however, is what inspired me to listen closer and actually follow through on what the trainer was telling me. 

It was the same as she had told me before, but it was apparent that, until I actually achieved the next step, we were stuck. I upped the game. I needed to flounder to commit to the next step. Fingers crossed the stuckness will make more sense as time goes on, as it was a couple of days before my brain worked through it. I had thought I WAS doing it before, but it took a lesson where I felt bad to realise it was my insides that had to let go and change, not just my hands and legs!


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## Ambers Echo (3 February 2022)

Thanks Red-1 - that makes a lot of sense. I am generally avoiding canter in schooling because it feels horrible. I canter to warm her up - often in light seat -  but trying to work the canter in a frame and with a bit of quality just feels awful. My RI gave me a bit of a bollocking about that saying she genuinely WAS hard work, especially on the left rein, and I needed to work through that. It needs to feel a bit messy before it is going to feel better. It just feels unfair on Lottie! Which was my logic behind Ingestre - get better on school horses and then transfer those skills to Lottie. But school horses aren;t weak, unbalanced or falling in! So I need to actually work through her specific issues to improve them.


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## Marigold4 (3 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			And just when it felt like it was going well!!

Frustrating lesson on Lottie. She is weak and unbalanced in left canter, rushes and falls in. And there were too many things I needed to do to correct it

- More effective use of inside leg to keep her out and stop her bulging into that leg
- More consistent outside rein
- Half halting with seat and outside rein to slow her down
- Flex and release inside rein to stop her looking to the outside
- Maintain my posiiton.
- Look where I was going (!)

It was too hard - I was doing everything mechanically with no timing or feel and she was just not responding. Outside hand was bouncing, inside rein was fixing, inside leg was ineffective, I was losing position. She was wall of deathing. Argghh what a mess. I stopped, saying 'I'm just training her how NOT to canter' and my RI got on to give her a better experience and end on a better feeling than my awful attempt. Still, the trot work was nice and I need to keep reminding myself that I am trying to do a hard thing well. And not every session is going to feel good. My RI says she feels a lot worse than she looks as she kind of throws you around but I think she was just being nice.

 On a more postive note, at the end of the lesson I felt like there had been no harmony, no connection. So I tried some liberty with her to re-connect and she was fab. It's not something I have trained her to do. It's just something I enjoy occasionally and played around with with Amber and so I tried it for the first time a few weeks ago and she was totally disconnected from me. Would not be drawn at all. And just ran away from any drive aids. So this was a huge improvement and I ended up drawing and driving her all over the arena with her glued to my shoulder. Ending with a jog to a halt and she was happy to speed up then stop sweetly and wait to see what was happening next. She seemed very curious and relaxed about this new game so I will do more of this for sure. I guess she forgave my sh1t riding!
		
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I sympathise - it's so hard to follow some many different instructions! I used to have a lot of "maintain your position" and rein instructions when I had lessons and this is what I've learnt recently that has helped ...

I have only just started to get the hang of really sitting properly on my horse and it has started to make a huge difference to my hands, my position and my straightness. All the time I thought I had an "independent seat", I hadn't really "got" it - my seat wasn't neutral at all and I was using my hands and seat and upper body to compensate. But instructors weren't really adressing the main problem - my seat - they were just trying to fix the symptoms arising out of not sitting properly.

Now I am learning (early stages) to properly SIT on my horse, my hands don't come into play nearly as much, I'm steering with my legs and fingers and everything feels much better and stiller. A real lightbulb moment for me that sitting properly fixes so much else. Difficult to explain what it means but Enlightened Equitation videos are great for this.


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## southerncomfort (3 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			Read something interesting the other day.

Author talks about neutral - horse feeling relaxed and contented in her 'sweet spot' and active neutral - horse feeling relaxed and contented while moving. The sweet spot could be in the stable or under a tree, active neutral is running or playing with the herd. The challenge is to help the horse find both neutral and active/neutral with us. He says it is very common for performance horses to have no 'active neutral' while working. They go into the ring, work, go back to barn and only relax there. So over time they get more and more wired.

This really fits Lottie. Lottie had no 'neutral' when with humans before. She would not just stand relaxed once you were on her. As soon as the bum hit the saddle she was offering movement, head tossing, chomping, pawing, fidgeting. I have done loads of work on this. Just 'reading the paper' while on her back. Mount. Do nothing. Dismount. Mount, sit there. Faff for ages. Amble a few paces, Do nothing again, Get off etc. She has become very good at being horse-as-sofa. And just chills out waiting for instruction.  Now she needs to finds active neutral too while moving and especially while jumping.

I am sure a good rider could get on Lottie and hold her together to jump a round. But I still think she'd be tense while doing it. I remember that trip to Weston Lawns for a stay away SJ  with Amber. Horses rearing, napping, spinning, spooking all over the place - then going in and jumping clear. I hated that. That's not what I want with Lottie.
		
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I really like this.  It definitely resonates with me.

Bo is such a busy, busy little pony.  He goes at life at 100mph.  From the moment I get on he's trying to anticipate what I'm going to ask him to do and it doesn't help that he's so responsive that I swear he can read my mind.

I'm definitely going to try the getting on, getting off, just chilling out exercises that you did with Lottie.


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## Caol Ila (3 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			So Fin was backed at the place Mark R does his clinics? You can’t get away from there!

Never meet your heroes, eh. I think Mark R is the real deal. But if he’s supportiing people who obviously aren’t then that is very disappointing.  It’s hard to believe after all these years of doing clinics with them that he wouldn’t have noticed a bit of a skills gap between the marketing hype and the  reality!!
		
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He was backed in 2019 by a good trainer at his old yard -- who I know, and she said he was a very good boy, super easy to back -- ridden away twice, and then sat in a field for almost two years (through no fault of his own). He was sent to that yard for re-backing, essentially. I viewed him a week or two after his return from the training yard, so it all would have been fresh in his mind.



Ambers Echo said:



			Yes fair enough. But writing off a pony who an amateur then does very well with is not really a very good look! And this isn’t hearsay- this is CI’s actual experiences with her own horses
		
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It has taken me six months to get the little guy going in arenas and hacking alone. He did not steer reliably when I bought him, so it's significant progress. Obviously if you're a trainer and you've got a horse in for 30 or 60 days or whatever, you don't have that kind of time. On the other hand, I'm not a professional, and I wasn't in a rush or trying to do anything by a certain time, so why push him?

In fairness, as AE knows, what happened with my old horse wasn't a training issue. I think moving her was the right decision, and I think they were genuinely concerned for her welfare. However, the way they handled it was less than ideal.



Red-1 said:



			I have ridden with Mark quite a lot, both in England and America. I would say he is the real deal. I had a Kathleen clinic in England too., it was fabulous, as well as riding with her at Mark's/Dave's. In fact, the clinic I went to here was her first solo clinic when she set up separately from Mark, she was great!

I have also visited the yard in question. I found them to be on a different wavelength. They do have nice stabling, and say the right things initially, but I found them fairly intractable in how they actually operate. I also watched them give a lesson on a school horse which was obviously... erm... unlevel. There seemed to be little progress but much oooh-ing and ahhh-ing about how well it was going. It was actually painful to watch, so I stopped watching.
		
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I rode with Mark at that yard some years ago. I thought it was alright, which is why I ended up there as a livery, very briefly. Mark and Chrissie were wonderful, and that clinic did wonders for my riding. 

To kind of go back to the original topic, I think Mark's aikido-inspired approach would really help Fin find "safe and neutral" when he goes to plant-and-freeze mode. Kathleen Lindley would probably be very helpful too. I have no transport so can't get to Kinross, but I'm on a big yard. There might be enough interest there.


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## Ambers Echo (3 February 2022)

Red-1 said:



			Hey, I would be onterested in any interesting clinics you run. Could board my horse nearby or whatever.
.
		
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 I often arrange stuff on the yard- mainly because it is a way of me affording training myself. Nicola Wilson has been. She was ace. Kathleen stayed with us for 3 days and ran clinics each day - she was very interesting to chat to about her life with Mark R and Buck B. Joe would come back too if there was interest. I can pm you or stick a post up if that's allowed. I don't make any money from clinics so it should be ok to let people know I'd have thought.


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## Red-1 (3 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			I often arrange stuff on the yard- mainly because it is a way of me affording training myself. Nicola Wilson has been. She was ace. Kathleen stayed with us for 3 days and ran clinics each day - she was very interesting to chat to about her life with Mark R and Buck B. Joe would come back too if there was interest. I can pm you or stick a post up if that's allowed. I don't make any money from clinics so it should be ok to let people know I'd have thought.
		
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Either a Pm or a thread would be OK, I think, especially in the regional boards? 

BTW, the thing that clicked for us after the not so good lesson was about him not being infront of the leg. He would do as I asked, but I was always chasing.


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## Ambers Echo (5 February 2022)

I can't even begin to exoress how happy I am right now. I took Lottie to Somerford yesterday rescheduled from last week. And then I had a lesson at a SJ venue today. My confidence has been on the floor in terms of how realistic eventing was ever since Amber retired. Amber was my horse of a lifetime and she gave me so much belief. I had plans and dreams with her and really believed we could get there together. Then she was retired and it all fell away. Toby came along and we never gelled. He was sweet and willing but I never got to grips with riding him. I came to the conclusion that I just couldn't ride and that Amber had masked my incompetence. Operation Learn to Ride has left me feeling as though I  will never ever get any better because although I had good lessons and glimpses of nice work I have also had plenty of frustrating lessons and work that felt rubbish. 

Then there was a long injury layoff. And when I started jumping Lottie early January, once I got the all clear from the vet, she was wired and wild. The idea of eventing her seemed a million miles away.  I have no idea why she got her knickers in a twist quite so much about jumping. I sent a video clip to the trainer Joe Midgley who's opinion  I really respect, who said she was tense, stressed, not coping. It was not enthusiasm or greenness.  I have approached that in multiple ways - all focused on getting her brain rather than just contolling her. I have no idea what has made a difference. Or whether actually it was just repeated exposure that has led her to calm down.  But the last 2 days she has just felt like a completely different horse.

Yesterday she was onwards but with happy ears and no sign of stress. In between jumping lines I could drop the reins on her neck to video my friend and she went from super keen to horse-as-sofa instantly. Then today we were jumping curving lines, doubles, related distances and making tight turns. She stayed with me for courses of 7/8 jumps in a row. She felt fab. 

And best of all was my confidence just flooding back. I was on a horse I love, maintaining the rhythm, staying balanced, seeing strides and moving with her. I have not felt that for SO SO SO SO SO long.

I am literally crying with gratitude and relief. I have a pony partner again and I can't wait to see where this year takes us.


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## ITPersonnage (5 February 2022)

Yay well done you  You have worked really hard on improving yourself, you deserve some payback.


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## Bernster (5 February 2022)

ITPersonnage said:



			Yay well done you  You have worked really hard on improving yourself, you deserve some payback.
		
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exactly this !


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## scats (5 February 2022)

I’m so pleased for you AE xx


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## Red-1 (5 February 2022)

Brilliant!


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## JGC (5 February 2022)

The wee tear in my eye is most definitely from chopping onions. Definitely.


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## bouncing_ball (5 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			Read something interesting the other day.

Author talks about neutral - horse feeling relaxed and contented in her 'sweet spot' and active neutral - horse feeling relaxed and contented while moving. The sweet spot could be in the stable or under a tree, active neutral is running or playing with the herd. The challenge is to help the horse find both neutral and active/neutral with us. He says it is very common for performance horses to have no 'active neutral' while working. They go into the ring, work, go back to barn and only relax there. So over time they get more and more wired.

This really fits Lottie.
		
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who is the author? Is it from a book or magazine? Thanks


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## Ambers Echo (5 February 2022)

Thanks so much everyone. Lottie is a little superstar.


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## Ambers Echo (5 February 2022)

bouncing_ball said:



			who is the author? Is it from a book or magazine? Thanks
		
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Jonathan Fields in his book The Art of Liberty Training for Horses.


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## Ambers Echo (8 February 2022)

Another dressage lesson after the frustration of last week. And it felt loads better. Hurrah. Maybe you need to work through those awkward 'this feels awful' sessions to get better. Instead of backing off in case you ruin your horse!

I've lunged her doing loads of canter-trot-canter transtions  and schooled the canter once since last lesson and then it was much better today.

A couple of progress pics. She is muscling up too.


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## Ambers Echo (22 February 2022)

Well she's been a bit wild again. But to be fair the weather is horrendous, she has not been turned out much and she is very fit now!  Had a dressage lesson and my RI got on first as I have struggled with her running through the bridle and was not sure if it was my lack of communiaction or her being rude. Verdict was she is being rude BUT if you get too strong with her she tenses up and gets worse. So you have to sort of cajole her patiently into maybe slowing down sometime this side of Easter.....

The advice was to release wherever possible. Really focus on instantly rewarding those brief moments of coming back to me to encourage her to listen. Plus lots of lateral work and circles to provide as many opportunities as possible to release and let her travel at the pace set and not speed up. The aim was to find as many ways as possible to show her that life is much nicer for everyone if she just maintains the rhythm I ask for.

By the end of the lesson it was getting better and what seemed to work best  was doing loads of transitions and looking for every opportunity to release and move hands forward. Also sitting trot was helpful. She has a lovely trot and when I ask for a bit more she feels great, but she can only manage about 6 strides before she starts taking over again. So I was asking for a transition within trot back down to a more collected trot after 4. And just repeating that over and over. We will get there. The promising glimpses are really nice.


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## Alibear (22 February 2022)

It's sounding like you have a very nice horse there AE.  I think you'll both have lots of fun together and it sounds like you've got good instructors and a good support group to help you both on the way.


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## stangs (22 February 2022)

Always lovely to read an update from you!

Out of curiosity, what do you think makes her want to run through the bridle - is it just a busy mindset, always wanting to be finishing one thing and getting started on the next?


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## wills_91 (22 February 2022)

Caol Ila said:



			You don’t know if you don’t ask. Maybe he’d be keen to help a fellow Coloradan.

Foinavon’s ground manners are awesome— I don’t know if the training yard in question did that, or if it was the trainer who tamed and backed him. But I’ll give them a bit of credit.

Under saddle, however, he was a mess. I knew he’d been ridden a grand total of twice before first trainer had a bad accident (not on him) and had to stop working. From what his previous owner said, it sounds like he did his wild pony freeze-and-plant at the training yard, and they interpreted it as being dominant and stubborn (rather than scared and overwhelmed by life), and told his owner that he’d thrown a “tantrum” but they had powered through it. They said he could maybe be a trekking pony. Or an unridden therapy pony. Clearly, they didn't think a lot of him. It has taken me six months to bring him around to the idea that arenas are kind of fine and not like walking into Mordor or the Blight (pick your favourite fantasy series), so whatever they did to “win” when he had "tantrums" was maybe not the most effective horse training going.

If it had been a normal breaking yard, I would have been less annoyed, but -- same as with my old horse -- they have an epic amount of PR plugging themselves as horse-centric/natural horsemanship/problem horse/ yadda yadda gurus. I am not a guru; I'm not Mark or Tik  or Joe Midgley or Warwick Schiller or any of these people. I'm a muddling one-horse amateur, an extremely average rider, but I can get through to this horse. He can't be that difficult.
		
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Mark done a clinic at a yard I was on, years and years ago, and possibly because of close connection to the yard I assume you are referring to Rd run by MH? Anyway, he may be willing to travel to you as you are more likely to be closer than the yard I was at. 

Sorry to Hijack your thread AE, I am an avid lurker reading updates. 😂


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## Bernster (22 February 2022)

You seem to be on a similar journey to me in many ways. I used to brace and hold when Bertie lost balance (he speeds up and runs through, particularly on the downward transitions).  Not quite cracked it but it’s def better.  We still need to do circles and shapes to balance him again. My current target is to be able to do a decent canter to trot transition without losing balance for a few strides!


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## Ambers Echo (22 February 2022)

stangs said:



			Always lovely to read an update from you!

Out of curiosity, what do you think makes her want to run through the bridle - is it just a busy mindset, always wanting to be finishing one thing and getting started on the next?
		
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I don't really know and am open to suggestions. She actually does not get strong out hacking which is odd. Can happily canter along and stop when asked! So I don't think it's that she is super forward and keen all the time. That was more Amber who did everything at pace - even just ambling in  walk on a hack was a power march. But I don;t really get the feeling she is stressed either though does gets stressed if we argue about it. And did get stressed over poles initially but seems to have relaxed now. I also don't think it's lack of balance. 

I wondered whether she thinks she is meant to take over? She was a show jumper  in her previous life and from my admittedly limited experience with the world of affiliated show jumping, riders seem to be fine with horses taking over! As long as they get round fast and leave the jumps up.

A local pro posted her winning round at the SunshineTour the other day on FB. And I thought it looked horrendous! Horse had his head in the air, lots of pulling and flapping, horse fighting all the way around. But he jumped a fast clear and  the comments were all super positive. And I have never forgotten how badly behaved the horses in the collecting ring at Weston Lawns were. Rearing , napping, barging, spinning, literally cannoning off poor Amber. I ended up warming up in the lorry park as the warm up arena was just chaos.

So maybe it's that! Maybe she was just allowed to/expected to take over more or less. But then again I probab;y don't know what I am talking about. The SJ horses are being ridden by people a lot better than I will ever be so what do I know.

As I said - open to suggestions and ideas! My RI sees it as a schooling issue. I was hoping the nh trainer Joe Midgely could get me more in tune with her brain and so I could work with that as well as her body. But he cancelled at the weekend, unfortunately.


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## Bernster (22 February 2022)

Ah interesting. Bertie is more of a sj - his issue I think is lack of balance in the sense of not having the strength and core yet to maintain himself and maybe not understanding what’s being asked of him now in the flatwork. Maybe they are ridden more from the front, and with stronger rein contact?  He also doesn’t really respond to my half halt, unless I do quite a strong aid. I’ve not found many gears within the paces either but that may be due to my rubbish riding. 

It’s interesting unpacking it all though and working out where the buttons are, and installing new/different ones with a different rider.

ETA I actually find him easier to ride round a course but I think I’m not so concerned about the quality of the work (other stuff taking up my brain space), and the aids can be a bit less refined when you’re wanging around jumps (but I appreciate we need to stop wanging around a course!).


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## Ambers Echo (22 February 2022)

Juat a few more SJ musings. At a recent lesson I jumped an oxer that was on the short side of the arena then turned to a double along the long side. There was a fair gap between Oxer and double. Lottie landed, locked onto the double and then jumped those. She did not accelerate but equally she totally ignored my half halt to balance round the turn. My RI said 'fabulous'. I said I didn;t think it was fabulous as she was just ignoring me and while I knew she wasn't going too fast , I hate that sense of the horse paying no attention to me.  She said Lottie was just getting on with the job and I was lucky she was happy to do it. Get out of her way and let her get on with it! So perhaps she is used to being allowed to make decisions. Perhaps that really is a useful trait in a show jumper?


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## stangs (22 February 2022)

I suppose a good show jumper needs to have a brain of their own a lot more than a dressage horse does to get horse&rider out of awkward strides without gaining any faults, so maybe that translates into wanting a horse to have a bit of a "I've got this, shut up already" attitude? Then there'll be a lot more adrenaline circulating in their systems that they'd have during a flatwork session, so some of that as well. Not to mention, with SJ the horse has a concrete idea of what's going on - they can see a jump, they know to jump it - whereas dressage is so abstract - they're completely relying on the rider to say what's next - that it doesn't allow for the horse to form its own opinions really.

Or maybe she's so accustomed to moving at her own rhythm that she struggles to balance at a more collected rhythm? Or she just doesn't see a reason to collect/steady her gaits in the arena, which she associates with SJ, which might be why the issue doesn't exist out hacking?

I wonder what would happen if you did a flatwork session with loose reins? If it is a SJ association that makes her strong and not a busy mind, then surely, after a bit of time trying to figure out what you wanted, she'd soften and relax, as she definitely won't have memories of SJ schooling without a contact. 

(Excuse the unstructured and poorly worded tangent!)


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## Caol Ila (22 February 2022)

wills_91 said:



			Mark done a clinic at a yard I was on, years and years ago, and possibly because of close connection to the yard I assume you are referring to Rd run by MH? Anyway, he may be willing to travel to you as you are more likely to be closer than the yard I was at.

Sorry to Hijack your thread AE, I am an avid lurker reading updates. 😂
		
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Aye. That's it.

Good to know, although it's all academic this year, as his website suggests he has no plans to travel to the UK anytime soon. Understandably. 

My little horse, however, did a 30 minute schooling session today. We had the arena to ourselves. He did walk and trot, some circle-esque figures, some straight-ish lines. He's wobbly and all over the place in the contact, like any green-as-grass horse, but for the most part, he was calm and willing. Towards the end of the session, I could walk him on a long rein, and he was stretching into the contact.


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## Ambers Echo (23 February 2022)

She whickered to me today as I approached her stable 
I don't feed her so it wasn't that.


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## JGC (24 February 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			She whickered to me today as I approached her stable 
I don't feed her so it wasn't that.
		
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Fabulous! Lovely milestone.

I know what you mean about the SJ - my gelding would canter round pretty slowly but I found it terrifying because whatever I did, he would just trundle along with exactly the same stride length, not listening to input on my part. I got a nasty habit of more or less freezing three strides out as I would just be waiting for him to pick his takeoff spot - I had no choice. My current mare has a pony brain and if we get into a sticky spot, she can work things out for herself BUT she will adjust shorter or longer and rebalance when I ask and I much prefer jumping with other, even though she can stop (there's always a reason why she stops, mind)!


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## Ambers Echo (7 March 2022)

Had a fabulous weekend with Lottie and thought I’d just reflect a bit (whittle on). I like re-reading this thread as it’s the full story and sometimes I can get so focused on the details and frustrated by individual schooling sessions that I lose sight of the big picture

Lottie has everything I like in a horse in spades: clever, kind, hard working, independent, bold, safe, sane, sassy, forward, sure footed, sensitive, expressive, athletic. If I have learned one thing it’s to trust my instincts on whether a horse is right for me or not. I was very fond of Toby. I enjoyed riding him at times and we had some very good experiences together. I tried hard to love him and develop a stronger bond with him because I could see he had many wonderful qualities. But I just didn’t ever truly connect with him whereas his new owner worships the ground he trots on. I kept him a year which was about 10 months too long as I knew straight away that he wasn’t really my kind of horse. So lesson learnt. That feeling of excitement, that spark needs to be there from day 1. Given that feeling, I can work through all manner of issues. But without it, I just don’t really feel happy even if the horse is not causing any problems. A good day with Toby led to ‘I really should keep him’ and a bad day to ‘no he’s not right for me’. With Lottie a good day leads to ‘I am so excited and happy’ and a bad one to  ‘how can we sort this out.’ She is 100% the right horse for me. And I knew that the day I met her.

Talking of ‘bad days’ this thread provides welcome perspective both in what truly matters and also on overall progress. Seeing the big picture instead of week by week obsessing over things!

I was worried sick when she went lame that she was not coming back into work. And yet here she is, fit and well and working hard. I need to never lose sight of what a gift that is. But also she has come on a lot since she arrived. She was initially described by the pro on the sales livery yard as uneducated with no idea what a contact is. Not on the aids, not straight, not supple. A “wibblwobbly plank of wood!”. 8 months later she has gone out and scored 69.54 in her first dressage test. And judges are saying she has ability and there is lots to like. And she was so rideable in the tests. She was lovely and light and obedient.

She is also calmer over jumps so although she is very experienced as a showjumper, I want her much more with me and much more relaxed. That is a work in progress but there is improvement and best of all she now seems happy jumping, not stressed. I spent ages wondering if I was overthinking the jumping and sent video of her jumping to 3 trainers who all said she was stressed/tense. But now she is happy and relaxed which is fab. Though she still tries to jump ANYTHING that passes her eyeline. I need to be so careful wen I finish a round not to just stop riding and expect her to stop as she will still be looking for the next fence.

On the ground she is much softer. She loads like a dream, is no longer any problem at all to catch, (comes over to be caught), enjoys a good groom, lets me hang out in her stable and recently has started whickering at me in the stable. (She whickered at me in the field a lot earlier than in the stable). Does over-react and flinch sometimes, is still head shy – particularly round the ears. Still pins her ears at people approaching her stable but with much less ‘heat’ and if you just stay there she puts them forward again quite quickly and accepts a stroke. I think that will also keep improving as she's a sofy underneath!

















And it’s camp next week – hurrah. Onwards!


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## ycbm (7 March 2022)

AE from the pictures,  there's been an enormous improvement in your position and balance over a fence. It looks like you're going to have a lot of fun this summer! 
.


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## Errin Paddywack (7 March 2022)

What a lucky horse to have ended up with someone prepared to go the extra mile to make her happy.  A really happy story for both of you.


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## Ambers Echo (15 March 2022)

Well camp was incredible:I  focused on the jumping and she was ace SJ and XC. So I’ve entered our first event as we have now ticked off dressage in the boards, an SJ course and XC on grass and she’s been great in all of it. So we are as ready as I’ll ever feel, I guess. 

Edit of the dressage and camp if anyone is interested.


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## Bernster (15 March 2022)

Lovely vid.  She moves nicely !


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## DressageCob (15 March 2022)

She looks fantastic. So confident in the jumping and the dressage was lovely. Well done!


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## Ambers Echo (15 March 2022)

In the interests of transparency - that’s my RI in the dressage. I selected the wrong clip but can’t be bothered to change it now as I’ve put the music on. Lottie looked nice in my test too but I looked rather less elegant!


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## dixie (16 March 2022)

She’s looking fabulous. 
Well done for putting the hard work in and getting to this stage. 
You’re going to have a lot of fun with her.


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## scats (16 March 2022)

Looking super! She really seems to enjoy her job.
Well done AE.


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## Red-1 (16 March 2022)

That all looks so positive!


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## ycbm (16 March 2022)

Glad to see you having such  fun after a turbulent 2 years horsewise, AE. 
.


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## J&S (16 March 2022)

Fab little horse, going well in all three spheres.  Very best wishes for the season ahead.


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## Ambers Echo (16 March 2022)

scats said:



			She really seems to enjoy her job.
		
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Yes that's the most pleasing thing of all. Happy ears!


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## Ambers Echo (16 March 2022)

She can add nursemaid to her list of qualities.

Amber and Lottie are in the same barn with another horse between the 2 of them. Last night Lottie was really unsettled - pacing, wouldn't eat her tea or her hay. Nothing seemed to be wrong at that time but a while later the YO checked on them all and the middle one appeared to be colicking. YO, owner were up all night with her with vet coming and going. Lottie spent the entire night nosing her through the bars or nuzzling her round the door. She would not rest but stayed guard all night and every so often would nose the YO's shoulder as if to say 'you need to do something'. 

Amber ate her hay, went to sleep and ignored everyone!

Horse is much better now after being tubed overnight and Lottie has finally relaxed and been yawning away. Bless her.


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## Ambers Echo (27 April 2022)

Update! Gosh where has the time gone. A lot has happened over the last 6 weeks. We went eventing - yay- - and she was AWESOME. Double clear our first time out with just a handful of time. We then went again and this time I had a bit of a nightmare on the SJ wuith 2 rolled poles and a satnav error for 12 plus time. But another XC clear with 2.4 time despite going wrong. (Let's not mention dressage.....)

So last night I took her evening showjumping to restore some confidence. (Mine not hers! She is plenty confident enough). Entered a very local show and went straight into the 80 class to replicate eventing. She felt great. Controlled, rideable. The course had both tight turns and some long runs between fences so she needed to be listening and not get strong. And bless, her she was fab. I made a total ballsup of 10-12 though. 10-11 was on a curving line then straight on to 12. I saw a longish stride to 11 and was already looking at 12 when she hesitated, chipped in and cat jumped. I had committed to the long stride and was ahead of the movement, landed in a head on her neck after 11. She was already locked onto 12. Argggh. I thought this is not going to end well but managed to haul my arse back into the saddle just in time for her to jump 12. Bless her she just did her job despite the total deadweight numpty swinging around on top. So that was not  a good place to end, so I ented the 90. Our first round at that height and she flew round. Super confident, and I rode better so it felt a much neater, more organised, round. I thought we were clear but they called 4 faults so she must've rolled a pole somewhere. But I am super happy with her.

In other news, I went on holiday which co-incided with the warm weather over Easter and the grass started growing. She had more turn out and less riding while I was away so I thought I'd come back to a fatter, more chilled out horse. But as soon as I got back I could see she had dropped weight and was looking more grumpy. Skin was duller too. So I immediately assumed hind gut issues again and have got her off the grass. I did not know grass was implicated in hind gut acidosis. I always thought the more turn out the better for gut health. But actually it makes perfect sense that if sugar in feed is an issue, so is sugar in grass! So she is now in during the day and out overnight and is already looking and feeling better. She is clearly sensitive and will need to be managed carefully but luckily problems show themselves quickly so she's not one of these who looks fine while actually really suffering.

I am so happy that after a pretty awful start to our jumping partnership she is now listening, waiting and giving me such a good feel around courses. I can't believe I am jumping 90 courses on her. I never got above 60 with Toby in over a year. But a confidence giving jumping horse is worth her weight in gold. Just need to sort the dressage now.......


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## ITPersonnage (27 April 2022)

Super chuffed for you both, lovely to hear what a good partnership you've created.


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## Art Nouveau (27 April 2022)

I'm so pleased to hear how well you're doing. I love reading your updates


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## Asha (27 April 2022)

Great update AE.

perhaps give dengie healthy tummy a try. Since I’ve put mine on it they’ve all seemed so much happier .
2 of them had the poo tested so I know they where a bit unbalanced in that area .


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## SatansLittleHelper (27 April 2022)

So happy for you 💓 😁
She sounds and looks fab...interesting to see how your partnership develops.
Did you decide to put Amber in foal in the end??


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## Ambers Echo (27 April 2022)

Asha said:



			Great update AE.

perhaps give dengie healthy tummy a try. Since I’ve put mine on it they’ve all seemed so much happier .
2 of them had the poo tested so I know they where a bit unbalanced in that area .
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for reply. I looked at loads of feeds but decided to steer clear of alfalfa based chaffs in favour of honeychop. To mix in with pink mash.There is no reason to think she is sensitive to alfalfa but honeychop is a nice soft chaff and I've got the calm and shine version for extra oil. ANd she has the yeast, protexin and pre/probiotics in the mash and in her supplement.


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## Ambers Echo (27 April 2022)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			So happy for you 💓 😁
She sounds and looks fab...interesting to see how your partnership develops.
Did you decide to put Amber in foal in the end??
		
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Yes she is due end of June and looking very fat!


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## Ambers Echo (17 May 2022)

So proud of Lottie so I thought I’d do a picture story of our day out at Chatsworth. We entered the 90cm Arena Eventing at Chatsworth International Horse Trials. It is the most incredible venue with many sporting stars competing in classes up to 4*
Nice entrance!!

I
The site is huge so there was a lovely 20 minute hack to get to the Arena Eventing. It was a super buzzy atmosphere but Lottie was cool as a cucumber and I just couldn’t stop smiling on the hack down. I was nervous but also just overwhelmed and excited to be there. 



I had walked the course the night before and knew exactly where to start from to get a nice line to the first. But I was totally thrown by having to salute the judges and by fence number 1 being taken out so it started at 2. I have no spatial awareness so finding the first fence from the wrong part of the arena was beyond me. Literally 🙈 I crossed tracks looking for it which was not a great start! But once we were off I began to relax and started to have fun. Lottie was mega. Bold, keen but listening. Half way round I started grinning at every fence!


And kept grinning 😀 



She jumped so confidently. I am pinching myself that after a dodgy start to jumping she has just blossomed. Happy ears every fence! Rolled a pole but was never going to stop or run out. 



 I am so happy with her, so proud of her and so, so excited about where next…


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## dixie (18 May 2022)

Love it !  What a fabulous uplifting report - No wonder you’re excited. 
Lottie looks very professional in those photos 😀


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## Red-1 (18 May 2022)

That looks amazing!!!


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## Bernster (18 May 2022)

Amazing journey, love this!


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## Hannahgb (18 May 2022)

Honestly so lovely to read!!


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## Pinkvboots (18 May 2022)

Great pictures you both look brilliant 😀


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## ITPersonnage (18 May 2022)

Fantastic, what a lovely girl you've got !!


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## Ambers Echo (17 July 2022)

Another Lottie update. After Chatsworth I decided to do one more 80 at Eland then step up to BE90. Eland went well with a rolled pole SJ then a fab clear within  the time. And that’s a tricky 80 so definitely felt ready to step up to 90 as it’s only the dressage holding us back - and that’s no different in the 90. So I entered the BE at Stafford which was cancelled, ditto Cholmondely.
So I’ve entered Kelsall unaff at end of July and the team event at Eland mid August. But being logically ready does not mean feeling psychologically ready! 90s scare me. They still look enormous. 

To replace the cancelled Stafford, we went to the combined training at Kelsall. I wanted to do the 80 show jumping because  the 90 was a BS track which I knew would be harder than a BE SJ round. But the 80 had a novice test whereas the 90 had a BE90 test - equivalent to prelim. I was driving myself mad with indecision so thought I’ll just do both 😂. 

And Lottie was better in the N24 and jumped a fab clear in the 90. One of only 4 clears from a class of 12. So I just need to stop doubting her, stop doubting myself and be a bit braver in accepting challenges.

It’s a fab milestone for me because I never got above 90 in competition with Amber and I’ve now gone clear at 90 with Lottie. 

So, so happy with her. She is so easy to manage out and about, so bold and focused. Could not resist lots of pics.

Dressage is the weak link but I'm pleased with how calm and obedient she was. I need to sit UP! Why Am I tilted over liking a listing ship 







Then onto jumping and she's in her Happy Place!





















And all smiles at the end


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## Widgeon (17 July 2022)

What a nice update, so pleased to hear things are going so well. That last photo is just lovely, you both look like you're having a really good time.


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## Bernster (17 July 2022)

What an amazing journey you’ve had. Well done 👍


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## ITPersonnage (17 July 2022)

I so love seeing you two and what you get up to, what a fab partnership. You really look like you've met your match with her, you have so deserved to be successful.


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## Ambers Echo (3 August 2022)

Super happy with Lottie - again! My usual RI has changed her day and I can’t get there so today I went somewhere new with a new SJ trainer who advertised a cancellation slot. Well out of my comfort zone to just turn up and see how it went but I’m trying to ‘just do it’ a bit more often. After warming up we started around 90 then ended at 100+! Trainer was fab and Lottie jumped really well. And after the lesson the trainer asked if I’d consider selling her as she really liked her. Nope but nice to be asked!


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## J&S (4 August 2022)

HaHa!  Those are the ones you hang on to!!


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## Ambers Echo (4 August 2022)

J&S said:



			HaHa!  Those are the ones you hang on to!!
		
Click to expand...

Too right!


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## Ambers Echo (7 August 2022)

I’ve focused on her schooling and jumping but actually this week has reminded me what a great hacking horse she is too. Sharer took her out with another rider and they started being herded by a load of curious young cows. Other horse/rider (who hack all the time - that’s what they truly love) got agitated and got off to lead. Sharer used Lottie as a barrier between the cows and the other pair. She basically just moved them around/back. Lottie the cow pony. Then yesterday she was out with another reliable hacking horse. She was happy in front, behind or being left. He bounced/broncced when behind in canter and rider yelled for Katie to stop and she came back to trot immediately. He also napped when asked to ride independently whereas Lottie was not phased by him doing his own thing. Katie has only ever ridden her once and never hacked her but was fine  just hopping on and going for a blast across the fields. She then walked calmly afterwards. She just doesn’t put a foot wrong out hacking. Amber was a bit of a nightmare to hack! Lottie is helping me rediscover the love ❤️


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## Ambers Echo (9 August 2022)

Well Lottie arrived in the UK this week a year ago.  I was on holiday when she arrived as her sailing was delayed so she spent 3 weeks at my pro-friend's schooling/sales livery yard where she was described as "uneducated, with no idea what a contact is, not on the aids, not straight, not supple. Basically a "wibblwobbly plank of wood!’ But genuine and willing with potential and jumps very well. Grumpy not overly fond of people." I have had so much fun this year, getting to know her, trying to rebuild the basics and helping her learn that humans aren't so bad after all. 

My 'gotcha' day is 20th August as that is when I first met her and decided she was staying. So I'll do a fuller update then but she has been everything I dreamed of and more. I am so lucky and thankful to have her in my life.


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## Ambers Echo (8 October 2022)

Never posted our 1 year anniversary post here. It's elsewhere but nice to have the whole story in one place.






Since then we went clear at Frickey 90 over a tough track then had a fantastic time at camp. She is fab. 2 weeks till Norton Disney then our season ends and she us having a short break before we pick up again.

I am re-thinking the 'chucking in a field for a month' plan.

She hates wind and rain and refuses to leave the field shelter - not even to come in. Here she is saying 'go away and come back later when it isn't raining before expecting me to walk across the field to the yard' . 



She does not lie down either so the minute she gets into her stable she heaves a sigh of relief and kips for a few hours. 




So she may be happier coming in at night. And also she has done a lot less work recently as my work has gone insane. So since camp 2 weeks ago she has just been hacked twice a week and schooled once and that's it. So by the time she does her last event in 2 weeks she will have had an easy month anyway.

So I'm thinking 2 weeks off, then hacking for a month to mentally decompress without losing fitness. Then start the 2023 campaign!


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## Pinkvboots (8 October 2022)

I would just bring in at night one of mine hates the wind and rain and will leg it to the gate if he sees me, his happy to be in even if the others are out some like there home comforts 😴


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## Ambers Echo (20 November 2022)

No idea if this of any interest whatsoever, but it interests me! When Lottie arrived she needed to learn to be caught and to lead politely. I really like horses who are easy to deal with on the ground so I also taught her various other groundwork type stuff - yielding, following a feel, backing, turning, flexing, waiting politely. Not as an end in istelf but because it is useful to have a horse who will do all those things. And this week that training came into good use.

Lottie is now in a really awkard field. The gate is narrow, the field slopes steeply up from the gate and it swings shut automatically. The first time I turned her out, the gate caught her as we went past so I decided there had to be an easier way. So the next time I stood on her offside while she waited politely so I could open the gate and lean against it to keep it open. Then I sent her throgh on her own but the rope is only normal length so she also had to then turn and wait. All on a loose lead rein. So she needed to follow the forward feel, to go past me, then a flex feel to turn then stand and wait till I could scramble up to join her. Then I could take the halter off. And she did it all perfectly first time of asking.  So today I sort of tried to video it. The challenge was increased as Amnber was aready out and neighing at her. But she was fab. So here it is.

My commentary is rubbish but hope you get the idea! It really looks so basic but a year ago this would have been completely impossible. She would have been bargy, pushy, rushing through, trying to pull away etc. So this made me very happy!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/74daw7GH4_Q


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## palo1 (20 November 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			No idea if this of any interest whatsoever, but it interests me! When Lottie arrived she needed to learn to be caught and to lead politely. I really like horses who are easy to deal with on the ground so I also taught her various other groundwork type stuff - yielding, following a feel, backing, turning, flexing, waiting politely. Not as an end in istelf but because it is useful to have a horse who will do all those things. And this week that training came into good use.

Lottie is now in a really awkard field. The gate is narrow, the field slopes steeply up from the gate and it swings shut automatically. The first time I turned her out, the gate caught her as we went past so I decided there had to be an easier way. So the next time I stood on her offside while she waited politely so I could open the gate and lean against it to keep it open. Then I sent her throgh on her own but the rope is only normal length so she also had to then turn and wait. All on a loose lead rein. So she needed to follow the forward feel, to go past me, then a flex feel to turn then stand and wait till I could scramble up to join her. Then I could take the halter off. And she did it all perfectly first time of asking.  So today I sort of tried to video it. The challenge was increased as Amnber was aready out and neighing at her. But she was fab. So here it is.

My commentary is rubbish but hope you get the idea! It really looks so basic but a year ago this would have been completely impossible. She would have been bargy, pushy, rushing through, trying to pull away etc. So this made me very happy!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/74daw7GH4_Q

Click to expand...

Lovely.  Lottie is a very lucky horse!!


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## CanteringCarrot (20 November 2022)

I've taught all of my horses this. It's very basic and they learn it quickly. It's also super convenient. It's nice if there are other horses at the gate too, when I bring in because I can open the gate and he walks himself through and waits on the other side while I deal with the gate. Also works for tricky gates as you've noticed  I generally throw the lead rope over their neck and they know what to do.

Sounds like you've made great progress!


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## Barton Bounty (20 November 2022)

Lovely Manners @Ambers Echo ♥️


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## Ambers Echo (20 November 2022)

palo1 said:



			Lovely.  Lottie is a very lucky horse!! 

Click to expand...

I think I’m the lucky one! She’s so easy to train x


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## Ambers Echo (20 November 2022)

CanteringCarrot said:



			I've taught all of my horses this. It's very basic and they learn it quickly. It's also super convenient. It's nice if there are other horses at the gate too, when I bring in because I can open the gate and he walks himself through and waits on the other side while I deal with the gate. Also works for tricky gates as you've noticed  I generally throw the lead rope over their neck and they know what to do.

Sounds like you've made great progress!
		
Click to expand...

Useful for loading too! I like them to walk in on their own.


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## Ambers Echo (20 November 2022)

Barton Bounty said:



			Lovely Manners @Ambers Echo ♥️
		
Click to expand...

She’s a good girl 🥰


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## Barton Bounty (20 November 2022)

Ambers Echo said:



			She’s a good girl 🥰
		
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She is! And gorgeous! Id choose a horse with manners on the ground anyday 😬


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## Michen (20 November 2022)

CanteringCarrot said:



			I've taught all of my horses this. It's very basic and they learn it quickly. It's also super convenient. It's nice if there are other horses at the gate too, when I bring in because I can open the gate and he walks himself through and waits on the other side while I deal with the gate. Also works for tricky gates as you've noticed  I generally throw the lead rope over their neck and they know what to do.

Sounds like you've made great progress!
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t know horses shouldn’t know this lol, I can’t think of any that haven’t just naturally picked it up that I’ve had!


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## Ambers Echo (20 November 2022)

Well you’d think all horses would be taught this- or be handled in ways that mean they pick it up over time - but so many aren’t. Lottie was 8 when she came to me and was rude, impatient & bargy. Wouldn’t stand still, dragged people to the field etc.  So it’s nice to see the changes over the last 12 months or so X


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## Ambers Echo (1 January 2023)

So we have had pur post season break which went on for far longer then planned as the weather turned Arctic then I got ill. So she has done a load of groundwork and hacking but no schooling and jumping till this week. Finally picked her up again and she feels great. She is so fit and muscled. She feels very very well. Too well really - she is a lot more powerful than she was. But she is also relaxed and obedient. If a little spookier/on her toes. Jumped her today for the first time snce September and she listened and waited and felt keen and confident. So all in all, she is feeling in a good place to start her training with the aim of getting out eventing in March.  If 2023 is anywhere near as special at 2022 was, I will be very, very happy.


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## splashgirl45 (1 January 2023)

I’m looking forward to more happy posts from you as she sounds brilliant !!


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## SEL (1 January 2023)

Michen said:



			I didn’t know horses shouldn’t know this lol, I can’t think of any that haven’t just naturally picked it up that I’ve had!
		
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My youngster (nice but dim 🙄) will just stand in the gateway politely waiting while you sink into the mud rather than walk on a few steps. We did some practice in the field and he was fine. At the actual gateway though = does not compute


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## CanteringCarrot (1 January 2023)

SEL said:



			My youngster (nice but dim 🙄) will just stand in the gateway politely waiting while you sink into the mud rather than walk on a few steps. We did some practice in the field and he was fine. At the actual gateway though = does not compute
		
Click to expand...

LOL, my rising 2 year old was a bit like this at first. I taught him to lunge (just a few big circles at walk and trot) and the whole sending him in front of me just naturally fell into place at the gates after that. I mostly taught him to lunge so he got the concept of me sending him away/staying in motion away from me/in front of me/or beside me at a distance.

It's not strenuous, we usually walk 3 or so rounds, and trot 1 or 2 rounds each direction.

Then it was just repetition of taking him through the gate every other day and showing him what I wanted. Now he gets it. Between the very light lunging and other groundwork, he's more in tune to my body language now.


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