# Arena build - membrane or blinding?



## pootleperkin (3 September 2013)

Hi all,

I now have planning for my arena, so all is going ahead in the next couple of weeks. Exciting!

Just looking for thoughts on whether to use a membrane between the surface and stone, or use a stone 'blinding' layer to do the same job. I know a few folk who have done that and it saves the worry of the membrane coming up, but wondering if it works as well for the surface on top. If anyone has done it on here, what is the most suitable stone to do the job?

I'm having equine grade sand, plus either Clopf or flexi ride......I think!


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## Baggybreeches (3 September 2013)

I wouldn't ever use a membrane again, just wished I had put my foot down when we built ours, but I gave in for an easy life ( of constantly cutting out exposed membrane )


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## ljohnsonsj (3 September 2013)

Not membrane! Even with brilliant quality surfaces on top it still comes up! Absolute nightmare!!


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## Thistle (3 September 2013)

I have had both. The membrane is still where it sould be, but we have a very good depth of sand.

Over time the blinding worked it's way up but didn't cause too much problem. I just has to constantly pick gravel up from the surface.


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## wench (3 September 2013)

blinding then an membrane?


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## kerilli (3 September 2013)

there are loads of different thicknesses of membrane. if you go for a good thick one (I think i went for L200 off the top of my head, it's like grey felt about 3-4mm thick) and stitch/glue it with a 50cm overlap, and have a good surface covering, and most importantly don't have horses repeatedly stop at fences (best way to dig it up, total nightmare!) you'll never see the membrane. I've done 2 arenas with good membrane as blinding layer and never had a problem. I used cable ties to stitch this one, and baler twine to stitch the last one... a day's job but absolutely 100% worth it.


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## cptrayes (3 September 2013)

Mines glued with a big overlap. A friend has one the same, four years old and never seen a peep out of the membrane.

Other friend with no membrane has to pick stones off the surface occasionally, getting more frequent with age but not serious yet at four to five years.

Both arenas have the 'right' depth of sand and surface.

Don't know if that helps any!


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## Booboos (3 September 2013)

If you use a good membrane and put it down correctly it should not come up at all. 100 is the type commonly found for garderns and is fine between the soil and the hardcore, but for between the hardcore and the sand you need 500. It's very expensive but it does the job. When laying it you need to fix it under the retaining boards all around the arena and to overlap it and heat seal it - all of which is easily done. When the sand is laid on top the lorry should start tipping at the entrance and work backwards, reversing ONLY onto the sand and never onto the membrane.

A blinding layer can work but you really need to know your stone and how much to compact it. Compact it too much and it won't let water through, compact it too little and it will be loose contaminating the sand and not working as a barrier. While on the face of it it sounds like an easy DIY job (put it down, level it, roll it), actually it's best left to the professionals who know how the stone to dust mix reacts to compacting.


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## pootleperkin (3 September 2013)

Thanks all, some good info there.

I had been looking at the 700 grade terram, so a step up from the 500 Booboos. We had been thinking of either heat binding the overlap or gluing. If the 500 is good enough, I might get quote for that too?

I'm pretty sure I can get some good advice from my contractor re: the type of stone to blind with too.

The whole arena building thing seems to be a minefield!


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## Booboos (3 September 2013)

Specs for membranes by decent professionals are 500+. I've never had a problem with the two times we put down 500, if you can stretch to 700 even better. Heat binging is quite easy to do, I've never tried gluing.

The one time we did a blinding layer we used limestone, compacted it very carefully and then left it without sand for two weeks in the autumn to see how it reacted to the rain. Luckily we had gotten it right and it worked but it was more luck than anything else!


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## LynH (3 September 2013)

I had a new arena built earlier this year and opted for the blinding layer rather than a second membrane layer. I then had a major problem with clay patches swelling under the arena base a few months later which pushed the stone up through the sand. If I had a membrane and if it had been pushed up the same way it could have been dangerous if a horse had got caught in it. As it was the company removed all the sand which had been contaminated with stone, dug out and relaid the whole base with stone then relaid the membrane with a blinding layer of stone over and then the sand and Flexiride. 

It is now riding beautifully and I am so pleased I had the whole thing done by a reputable company who came back twice with no questions asked and fixed everything. 

I chose Flexiride over Clopf as it keeps the sand quite wet even with all the warm weather we've been having whereas Clopf will get deep unless the sand is waxed too. 

Here are the photos of my arena disaster. My only advice is to use a company who have a good reputation and a warranty to put it right if anything goes wrong. There is another thread where someone had the same problem I had but was having to dig out all the clay patches by hand as they chose a cheap contractor to do it and had been unable to get them to remedy the problem. 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...rena-watering-system-no-hard-going-at-my-yard


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## Cortez (3 September 2013)

I'll never use a membrane again after having huge problems with it coming up, tripping horses and making a total mess of an arena. With a stone layer, yes you do get a few coming up over time, but easily picked every now and again.


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## pootleperkin (3 September 2013)

Hi lyn, wow, scary stuff fortunately no clay or springs in our field. We are pretty much doing things ourselves, with some help and OH is a builder. Did your contractor recommend stone blinding or was it your choice? How do you like the flexiride to ride on? I don't like the idea of putting the clopf down to start with either.  Hope your school is all sorted again!


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## Booboos (4 September 2013)

For what it's worth I really like my clopf. I'm in the south of France and only had to water the arena twice so far this summer. The only problem I find with it is that it retains moisture so well when we have a sprinkling of snow it does tend to stay on the arena the longest and it balls up in the horses' hooves.


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## LynH (4 September 2013)

pootleperkin said:



			Hi lyn, wow, scary stuff fortunately no clay or springs in our field. We are pretty much doing things ourselves, with some help and OH is a builder. Did your contractor recommend stone blinding or was it your choice? How do you like the flexiride to ride on? I don't like the idea of putting the clopf down to start with either.  Hope your school is all sorted again!
		
Click to expand...

I got 6 quotes and all of them recommended the stone blinding rather than membrane. 

I really like the Flexiride to ride on. It forms a compact layer over the sand and keeps the sand moist and protects against freezing. The sand does need to be very wet and compacted before you lay the Flexiride and it is hard work to get it level at first. I ended up raking the deeper areas and moving the excess by barrow to ensure it was even all over but it's well worth the effort. It takes minimum maintenance and hardly ever needs harrowing. I just rake the track back occasionally but it hardly moves at all. It does need a lot of water to compact it so I waited until it had rained quite a bit before I first used it. When I had it relaid after the problems with the base I hosed it for quite a while and the contractor compacted it for me. Well worth it as it hasn't been deep at all in this warm weather. 

I searched for threads about it here and found a lot of positive feedback. I rang Equestrian Direct and they arranged for me to see a local arena with Flexiride down. The one I saw had a 2 day jumping clinic and at the end you could hardly tell it had been ridden on let alone 18 horses a day jumping on it.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (4 September 2013)

like everything i think it depends how well you do it-our arena has been down 11 years and we havent seen a peep out the membrane!
we have a good thick layer of sand, then topped with rubber and we are all anal about not just grinding round and round the track and no one lunges really so i guess that helps.


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## pootleperkin (4 September 2013)

Thanks again all. Just had in interesting conversation with Terram - they do not recommend any of their products for equine arena use. Basically, they don't want to be involved with any problems and claims should the membrane not be installed properly and cause an accident.

Of course everyone seems to use it!......I have had quotes for 700 now and an equivalent to T1000. I have also just been in touch with Geosynthetics and they sell a product specifically for equine arenas, so it will be interesting to see that quote. It looks as if I am going to have to go with a membrane as the local 5 m stone that would be used for blinding is know round here as 'dust' - it sets pretty hard, so don't think it would be porous enough to allow the water to move down through to the stone easily enough. I think it will be membrane for us, which is massively overlapped, glued and fixed to the kicking boards - I'm going for 3'' by 6 '' boards built up in layers to the correct height....what does everyone else have?


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## LynH (5 September 2013)

I've just remembered that when we got the quote for Flexiride from Equestrian Direct they sent me some membrane samples and prices in with the Flexiride sample. Might be worth asking for those.


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## showjump (5 September 2013)

My OH builds them for his living, he always uses membranes. If laid correctly, and the correct depth/ type of surface is laid onto it you should never see the membrane or have any trouble. Batten to kickboards all around and glue the seams. 

Re surface, on my own i have premixed Clopf not had it dry out or ride deep all summer. Afew years ago on my old arena i had equestrian surfaces fibres mixed into the top used to always dry out and go very deep in the summer months.


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## henryhorn (9 September 2013)

Having done it both ways I can promise you a membrane is essential not an option. 
Oh yes it works without but over time the stones loosen with the impact from the hooves and they start working their way up through the surface to the top.
A few other tips are do not store the membrane in sunlight, overlap it where it meets and glue or stitch it. Fasten it with heavy wood at the edges and when you get your surface delivered (remember it must be co-ordinated to avoid leaving the membrane exposed) tip from the gate then spread inwards so the lorry or machine is always driving on something other than the membrane. We have a mix of Padstow Sea sand, silica sand and rubber which has been improved hugely by adding Premium Grade Fibre (all this is is new carpet chopped up!) , it is rarely dusty, has some bounce and a superb footing.


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## supersally (9 September 2013)

We are going down the route of blinding & using pure flexi ride Has anyone else on here done that ?


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## pootleperkin (18 September 2013)

So, we are quite a way on now - we have used a membrane, with overlaps glued and batoned at the edges. All looks good. I have Bathgate silica sand partially laid, last three loads tomorrow (fingers crossed as the hauliers have been letting us down....). 

In a wee while I will be topping it with Flexiride - I went to see a school with it down last week and really liked it. Hopefully, it will be good to go for schooling soonish! Supersally, I haven't seen a school with Flexiride alone in it.

Thanks for the help all!


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