# at the risk of being banned



## LynneB (24 May 2011)

how bad has this place become!! First you could not talk about your stallion, now you cannot show your foals - or at least some people cannot it seems.  I have seen plenty of foal photos on here with no problems for the original posters, but Cruiseline has been banned and I can only think it is due to her posting her new foal photo as that post has also now gone.

Soon you will all have to tip toe in lightly and ask if it is ok to even use the word breeding!!


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## Holly831 (24 May 2011)

WHAT???  How stupid - I know why I don't come on here to often anymore 

I WANT to see pictures of the new foals and growing youngsters and I don't care who posts them!

H&H bring back Cruiseline!!


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## joeanne (24 May 2011)

Dunno why we even have a breeding section these days.....
No foal pictures, no stallions, its all getting a bit tedious to say the least!


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## AnShanDan (24 May 2011)

Yes, and people seem to get away with basically advertising horses for sale one after the other in CR and no-one bothers. Double standards??


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## GinnieRedwings (24 May 2011)

Yep, just logged on at work to put a congratulations post on both CL and Rita's threads about their new babies.... and.... neither are anywhere to be found... 

What's wrong with people???? Why can't they just look at the baby pics and go AAAaaaawwww, instead of thinking "better report them, they might attract some buyers on here" - bloody imbeciles!!!!!!


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## Maesfen (24 May 2011)

Very sad when someone is as petty as this seems to be.  Button pushers should be ashamed of themselves and it's about time they should be named as the BPs when it is for something as petty as this.  Sour grapes, jealousy or another stallion owner's spite?


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## blissbaby (24 May 2011)

IT WASN'T EVEN CL that post the pics she just let everyone know she had a beautiful new foal, it was someone else that linked Facebook!!!!!

Just for you Holly831 but be quick you never know how long it will be on here for!!!!!


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## Jamana (24 May 2011)

I find that it insults my intelligence that threads have to be removed because seemingly we are not able to just look at pics and decide whether they are genuine threads or thinly disguised advertising.

I don't think that a stallion owner posting pics of their foals are advertising any more than a mare owner posting pics of their foals are advertising. Even if they are, so b****y what!


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## Bug2007 (24 May 2011)

I don't want to buy a foal or am i looking for a stallion but love the stories and looking at the pictures.

How many horses have been sold to other HHOers.


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## Holly831 (24 May 2011)

blissbaby said:



			IT WASN'T EVEN CL that post the pics she just let everyone know she had a beautiful new foal, it was someone else that linked Facebook!!!!!

Just for you Holly831 but be quick you never know how long it will be on here for!!!!! 




































Click to expand...

Thank you


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## Mugsgame (24 May 2011)

What an absolute joke!!  Its a little impossible to discuss breeding without speaking of / showing pics of thise animals involved in it surely?  

Ridicule - thank you button pushers and HHO for supporting British breeding LOL!!!!

Nice foal by the way!


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## Enfys (24 May 2011)

Cruiseline BANNED?!  OFGS! 

Well, HHO, Breeding, BREEDING, *BREEDING*. How petty is this getting!   

Someone posted about a cremello foal on here the other day, dam and sire named, did they get reported? As the thread is still here then no they didn't, and why should they have? The poster said they bred, I breed, we all breed, otherwise why would we be on this particular forum. What is the difference with Cruiseline, or a dozen others I could name? 
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=457731

Who *IS* the sad grumpy button pusher anyway? 
Some righteous, little holier than thou, jobsworth (are you a traffic warden in real life?) ...come on, whoever you are, stop sneaking about, put your hand up, grow some gonads and complain in public.


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## Tempi (24 May 2011)

Id like to know whos doing the button pushing to be honest.... It all seems very pathetic to me.

Gorgeous foal though


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## Avonbrook (24 May 2011)

Good grief


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## Spring Feather (24 May 2011)

Utterly ridiculous!  Cruiseline seems a lovely poster and I've never seen her "advertising" anything on here.  I cannot understand why anyone would be banned for showing photos of their newborns


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## Thistle (24 May 2011)

Mugsgame said:



			What an absolute joke!!  Its a little impossible to discuss breeding without speaking of / showing pics of thise animals involved in it surely?  

Ridicule - thank you button pushers and HHO for supporting British breeding LOL!!!!

Nice foal by the way!  

Click to expand...

Well said, it's pretty obvious that those who have the most foals are likely to be studs. It's not as if these foals have a price tag under the photo is it?

Hobby breeders like me come here to learn from the more experienced people. Those who are more experienced get there experience somewhere, whats wrong with showing a pic of a foal.

The same thing happend to Julia FSH last year, another sad loss of a very knowledgable person.

It's a breeders forum, so it's highly likely the breeders are going to post here isn't it!

It's not even as if CL posted the pics is it?


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## Whizz105 (24 May 2011)

HOW PEDANTIC!


ADMIN PLEASE EXPLAIN THE REASON TO CL SO IT CAN BE AVOIDED IN FUTURE!!!!



CL is a breeder and goes thru all the experiences and emotions we MARE owners do - WHY can she not share them????

I don't think ADMIN should pass the blame this to a nameless person when it is them?


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## Pony_Puzz (24 May 2011)

I can't believe that, surely you should be allowed to post pictures of your own foals if they have spent the time and effort breeding them. Its that proud moment you have and everyone should be allowed to have it. CL's post was linked via another member just like anyone else posting pictures for someone else (which personally I think is time consuming when they should just be allowed to themselves).
Wish the button pushers would pack it in and let people live their lives. Obviously they dont have enough to do or are as Maesfen said: jealous. Jealousy is a very bitter thing to live with and it wont warm your bed at night!!


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## angrovestud (24 May 2011)

I got a warning last year as a stallion owner you can not post pics of your own foals but if someone else posts then its out of your control say for instance a visitor to the stud that just happens to take pics.
But if your a mare owner not a stallion owner you can post pics to your hearts delight also if you are a stallion owner but your using someones elses stallion you can then post pics this is how I understood the message I got.


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## cliodhna (24 May 2011)

It definately seems to be a poster with a vendetta against CL as maaany other posters have given details on dam and sire's breeding and never had their threads pulled, let alone be banned!!  I myself have, I even posted a link to the stud of the stallion as I didnt realise I was rule breaking and nothing happened!!

FGS button pusher, if you are reading this, seriously get a life. Everyone except you enjoys the foal posts and the point of the breeding forum is to LEARN about breeding practises and naming stallions and the dam's sire is important to those considering said stallions and it is interesting to see pics of their progeny. 

What if you are a one stallion owner, like htobago? How is it fair that mare owners can post pictures and they cant share the excitement of their breeding acheivements.


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## Simsar (24 May 2011)

CONGRATULATIONS CRUISELINE STUNNING FOAL


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## Simsar (24 May 2011)

The posts are still up from Rita ???


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## dianchi (24 May 2011)

Not fair on CL!!

Question is, was this an admin decision or a button pusher??


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## JanetGeorge (24 May 2011)

I think it's VERY odd that these 'rules' are being administered quite randomly.  I also find it odd that HHO is so willing to alienate ADVERTISERS!!  Yep - HHO - breeders advertise IN Horse & Hound - and pay good money for the privelege!

I wonder how many will now look more closely at Horse Deals or Horse Quest!


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## angelish (24 May 2011)

That's terrible , I enjoy coming in here and looking at the pics.
I mainly lurk but have noticed CLs post and found non of them remotely offensive , she's a very informative poster bring her back , shame on you button pushers


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## dianchi (24 May 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=131300146948432&set=o.143818049022472&type=1&theater

I am led to believe this is the culprit


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## Amos (24 May 2011)

Very sad!

I am not a stallion or even a broodmare mare owner any longer but love to come on here to see who is breeding what by what etc. I find it frustrating when somebody posts about a foal and we can't be told who the parents are! Whats the point???? Surely this is a breeding site??? Pathetic! 

People obviously post with horses for sale. sad sad sad 

Oh and I'd love to know who or what the dun foal is - stunning!


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## amy_b (24 May 2011)

I can understand the rules being there but this is insane. 
I have never seen CL once even mention her stallions name and it took me ages to find the facebook page!!! 
at the end of the day we all need to promote the best of british breeding  and if this is the place to do it then so be it, Iv seen so many posts where somebody has asked to stallion advice and got spot on answers - often stallions I have never heard of!!
why dont they cut to the chase and just delete the forum, its going to be pointless in due course anyway.
'here's my foal - its out of unnamed chestnut mare and unnamed bay stallion'
ridiculous.


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## Sportznight (24 May 2011)

HHO Admin and TFC always say that the forum moderates itself, therefore there HAS to be a button pusher.  

It's quite ridiculous!!  As has been pointed out how can you have a breeding forum if you can't discuss stallions AND see their progeny?  As for posting pics of a newborn foal, you can't tell THAT much from a new born, they need to unfold and fill out a bit!  WHY are forum users, who happen to be stallion owners, being persecuted for their delight at having a healthy new born foal?  I can understand not being allowed to  recommend their own stallions, however getting a healthy, new born foal on the ground is often the result of years of planning - why can it not be celebrated?

Plenty of people who are NOT stallion/stud owners post photo's of their foals and youngstock, many of which are/may be/will be for sale - there is little difference IMO.

You cannot have a breeding forum without photos!  That is madness!  I remember before there was the breeding forum on here and trying to persuade HHO Admin (before TFC came along) to create another forum on here specifically for breeders.  Before we just had the New Lounge, which was pretty inadequate and confusing, as so many other subjects are discussed in there, breeding related threads got lost PDQ.  In the last 4 or so years, since the Breeding Forum was established, the traffic on this site as a whole has hugely increased.  Without the Breeding section, the New Lounge would be a nightmare. and quite frankly I (and I assume others) would probably not use HHO so much, if at all?  So closing this section would surely only be cutting off it's nose to spite it's face?

It is unfortunate that there is no where else, that is relatively unbiased, for online discussion, that has the breadth and depth of knowledge that is available here on HHO.


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## Simsar (24 May 2011)

Can't get on the fb page??  what is it.


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## Thistle (24 May 2011)

dianchi said:



http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=131300146948432&set=o.143818049022472&type=1&theater

I am led to believe this is the culprit 

Click to expand...


Dianchi, I hope this is a joke, as it takes me to my home page
and it certainly isn't me!


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## shirleyno2 (24 May 2011)

Amos said:



			Oh and I'd love to know who or what the dun foal is - stunning!
		
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He's by Legrande you'll find his details here: http://www.lynairesportshorses.com/ 
I've met Legarnde and he is a superb stallion for british breeders!


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## Revena (24 May 2011)

I think that the hyperlink just takes you to your own page


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## Sportznight (24 May 2011)

Thistle said:



			Dianchi, I hope this is a joke, as it takes me to my home page
and it certainly isn't me!
		
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Doesn't take me anywhere M.  Says FB, but content unavailable, unless you've blocked me


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## welshsporthorse (24 May 2011)

Well, Ive not been on here long so pardon my ignorance but what exactly do you all mean by button pushing ?


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## Thistle (24 May 2011)

Sportznight said:



			Doesn't take me anywhere M.  Says FB, but content unavailable, unless you've blocked me

Click to expand...


Nope, you were still there earlier, why would I block you!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Sportznight (24 May 2011)

Thistle said:



			Nope, you were still there earlier, why would I block you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
		
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Pulling your leg


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## Revena (24 May 2011)

I can't believe that cl has been banned, I thought that the rules of the forum were just guidelines and posts were only taken off if there wa over the top advertising (which probably would ruin the forum). 
Personally I would really like to see photos of stallions youngstock, whether they are posted by the stallion owner or not. I don't think posting photos of youngstock on here would affect the way they advertise.


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## Enfys (24 May 2011)

Thistle said:



			Dianchi, I hope this is a joke, as it takes me to my home page
and it certainly isn't me!
		
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Tongue in cheek thread by me, directed at no-one but the Button Prodder - who knows who they are, also in Picture Gallery here.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=9688537#post9688537

Didn't want to post the photo in here as sire and dam, both on my property, are named. On the other hand, I don't give a toot if I am banned or not, and if anyone wants to bitch then they'll have to do it in public because I don't accept pms.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........So, without further ado, I introduce 





'The Button Pusher' 
by 'That's Advertising!' (I'm Reporting You) 
out of 'You can't do that...!' (Jayfer Jobsworth)


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## Simsar (24 May 2011)

FF!


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## Enfys (24 May 2011)

Simsar said:



			FF!
		
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FF


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## Revena (24 May 2011)

Brilliant!


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## Simsar (24 May 2011)

*********G fantastic


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## Eothain (24 May 2011)

How's that Facebook registration going there Simsar?


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## JanetGeorge (24 May 2011)

Revena said:



			I can't believe that cl has been banned,.
		
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And I'm still here - and it was ME who added the link!    And my thread about my latest Archie colt is still here: while I (regrettably) don't own Archie, I HAVE got a LOT of youngsters by him which will be advertised and sold in due course!  They'll be advertised on the Irish Draught web site - and if I get banned from here - in Horse Deals!!

I'm afraid TFC has lost the plot!  NO professional stud owner would run their business, promote their stallion, or sell their youngsters based on posts on HHO's breeding forum!  No - we advertise PROPERLY - in titles such as - guess what - Horse & Hound!!

Even if by chance we sold a foal - or got an extra nomination to a stallion as a result of posts on this forum - it sure wouldn't reduce our advertising budget!

The hobby breeder with just the one foal probably stands a better chance of achieving the one sale they might want - and even if they advertise it on H&H, they sure won't post the number of ads professional breeders would.


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## Holly831 (24 May 2011)

Enfys said:



			Tongue in cheek thread by me, directed at no-one but the Button Prodder - who knows who they are, also in Picture Gallery here.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=9688537#post9688537

Didn't want to post the photo in here as sire and dam, both on my property, are named. On the other hand, I don't give a toot if I am banned or not, and if anyone wants to bitch then they'll have to do it in public because I don't accept pms.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........So, without further ado, I introduce 





'The Button Pusher' 
by 'That's Advertising!' (I'm Reporting You) 
out of 'You can't do that...!' (Jayfer Jobsworth)
		
Click to expand...

ROFPMSL!! Funniest thing I have seen in ages  Awesome!


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## LadyRascasse (24 May 2011)

it thinks its a bit ott as how on earth do you except british breeding to grow and help produce new stock for the future if you can't show photos of A) the stallions themselves and B) the foals so you can see the stallions strengths and weaknesses? however other people can get away with blatant advertising including links to advert etc and not have it removed.


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## eventrider23 (24 May 2011)

Ditto LR!!!


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## magic104 (24 May 2011)

Well I for one dont believe it is all down to people pushing the button I believe that we are also monitored.  Dont care what the fat controller states, I think they pane these threads & keep an eye on us all.  I will buy the odd issue, but I dont feel H&H offer great value anymore & I would not use them to advertise anymore either.  I think they do a cr@p job at supporting UK Breeders anyway.


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## magic104 (24 May 2011)

Thistle said:



			The same thing happend to Julia FSH last year, another sad loss of a very knowledgable person.
		
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Well I never knew that, thought it odd not seen any posts lately.  I am with everyone else this is petty & would the button pusher please stand up!!!


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## eventrider23 (24 May 2011)

When it comes to getting a stallion guide monthly magazine i would much rather gets Horse Deals personally anyhow.


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## Thistle (24 May 2011)

magic104 said:



			Well I never knew that, thought it odd not seen any posts lately.  I am with everyone else this is petty & would the button pusher please stand up!!!
		
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Not sure if she was banned but I know she was warned. That's why we never see anything about the gorgeous Louis (Future Illusion) or his beautiful babies.


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## Simsar (24 May 2011)

Eothain said:



			How's that Facebook registration going there Simsar?
		
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Its not but not indefinitely.


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## henryhorn (24 May 2011)

I'm afraid I think the person doing admin is over zealous these days by a long way. 
Read the description of what the breeding forum is supposed to be for, sharing experiences etc, how on earth can we do that if so many things are banned? 
I don't think it's button pushers at fault but a misunderstanding of what is needed to attract people to a forum, oppressive rules, frequent bans for small infringements of rules is hardly going to encourage anyone to stay. 
Take note admin, probably 85% of former daily members on breeding forum have decamped to a more open environment, where the only time we return is because someone posts on there of yet another rule or bannning. 
Pictures are freely posted, there are no fights/rows etc and a spirit of support exists. 
Funnily enough I seem to recall the present HH breeders forum being set up for those very reasons ....what happened?


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## Alec Swan (24 May 2011)

LynneB,

I'm becoming ever more disheartened at the stance taken by those who own this forum.

Breeding will logically involve foals.  Foals will logically involve 'photos:  that's the way it works.  By posting those 'photos,  could someone explain to me HOW T.. F... IPC media are loosing out on sales,  or revenue?

Would it really be so difficult for others to accept,  that those who breed horses take a great deal of pride,  in their efforts?  

If the H&H were to offer more,  in the way of content,  then they may well find that sales,  and therefore the vital degree of revenue,  would increase.  This forum can do them no harm,  and would be viewed as a promotional vista for them,  by those who are only occasional purchasers of their journal.

If IPC media insist upon a sessile stance,  then they will be the poorer for it. I'm so sorry that the current stance is in place,  and that you've been upset.  It isn't good enough.

Perhaps if Admin read these posts,  they would be kind enough to offer an explanation for such intransigence. 

Alec.

ETS<  a good post Henryhorn. a.


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## Mega (24 May 2011)

Would love to hear about the more open forum. This all stinks, bring back CL.


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## Apercrumbie (24 May 2011)

So am I advertising if I post pictures of my horse which I will eventually sell?  This is so ridiculous!  I don't care if studs post pictures of their foals on here - I don't consider it advertising and I just like seeing the photos.  It isn't a form of advertising that will ever affect the revenue of Horse&Hound and it just takes away a lot of fun from the rest of us.


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## Touchwood (24 May 2011)

This is getting RIDICULOUS.  I have some beautiful babies, but don't bother to put up pictures, as I too have been the victim of the 'button pusher' whoever you may be!!!  

The whole value of a forum revolves around having experienced contributors, at this rate there will be none left!


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## Tharg (25 May 2011)

HHO is going down the tubes...


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## SusannaF (25 May 2011)

Tharg said:



			HHO is going down the tubes...
		
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Seriously. I joined for the foal photos. I love reading this part of the forum, even though I have bugger-all that's useful to contribute, bar the occasional name suggestion. I've been here a year and I was looking forward to watching the young-uns grow up.

If photos aren't allowed, couldn't an enterprising, devious seller of horses determined to exploit the poor, susceptible readers of HHO just provide lavish descriptions instead? You know, "Here's my new Totilas clone, he's 17hh, pure black and already doing canter pirouettes"?


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## TheresaW (25 May 2011)

My foal died.  I won't get to see her grow up, and I won't be trying to breed another.  I love following the foals on here and watching them grow and develop and it is being spoiled by a few.  Well done, I hope you are satisfied.


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## Mogg (25 May 2011)

im not a breeder, i visit the breeding section cos i love looking at the foal pics and reading the contributions from the posters. i don't care who posts em but i don't see the sense in having a breeding forum if the breeders, be them professional or amateur, are so restricted about what can and can't be posted.

I'm a simple soul and in my simple world i don't see why a mare owner can post pics of their foal(s) but the stallion owners can't post pics of theirs, or of the stallions themselves.
Ok so there may be an argument that the stallion owners charge a stud fee, but the mare owners will get a 'fee' down the line if the foal sells, so what's the difference?

What about the thinly disguised advertising on other parts of HHO...'will this mare/gelding sell,...is anyone buying cos my "insert description here" hasnt had any offers'

maybe the 'Breeding' title refers to the breeding of button-pushers!


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## hippomaniac (25 May 2011)

Simsar said:



CONGRATULATIONS CRUISELINE STUNNING FOAL

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love it. 
Cruiseline you have every right to be proud of your foals and want to show your pics.


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## lily1 (25 May 2011)

So why dont H&H have a "FOR SALE" section?? most other forums do. I hope in the next fews days to proudly put photos of my mare & foal.


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## Enfys (25 May 2011)

Soooooooo, _hypothetically_, if I began a "Show me your stallions" thread in PG would that be against the rules I wonder? 

Would it be considered advertising to show pictures of horses just because they still had their plums?

My stallion is in my avatar, if I could be bothered to update my signature that would probably have photos of his foals, would that be advertising?


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## Enfys (25 May 2011)

lily1 said:



			So why dont H&H have a "FOR SALE" section?? most other forums do. I hope in the next fews days to proudly put photos of my mare & foal.
		
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Probably because most other forums aren't associated with a publication that presumably relies heavily on advertising. If there is what amounts to  _free_ adverts why would anyone bother to pay for one? 

I can understand why they don't have one.


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## flyingcolors (25 May 2011)

Happened to me too. Someone asked about our stallion Chess and when I finally had some foals up and put the link to see them, someone pushed the button and all was deleted and I was warned. Now I do not know how to post any more here as I fear it will be taken down again. So better do not post at all. This is my first post since then I think.

I also feel that breeding should mostly involve offspring fotos and I have certainly not posted any for sale as most are bred by clients anyway and are not for sale either as Chess has been sold to Australia and so his foals are rare now and everyone wants to keep theirs.


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## Anastasia (25 May 2011)

I think that HHO and the breeding section is getting beyond a joke!

I used to post about pictures and details of all my foals, but then two years ago I kept on getting posts deleted and warnings because "someone had complained".  So I no longer post on here and this is why me and fellow breeders set up Horse Breeders Forum, because at least there you can post pictures, ask about stallions and everyone gets lots of information off it.  There are no silly marketing "injunctions" and because of that everyone has a lot of fun and learns a lot.

Magic I hear what you are saying re Admin watching the forums, and they may do this on an adhoc basis.  But in the PMs I have ever received it has been because someone has complained and been a button pusher, who obviously is just jealous, plain and simple.

So Cruiseline, think of it this way.  The only reason someone has reported you and you have been banned is because of jealous people, who obviously are not happy with what they are breeding and in turn must complain about the success of others.  So read it as a sign of success.

And if I get banned for writing the above, or someone else complains then I dont care because its a rare occasion that I post in here anymore anyway.

So people there are other forums where you can find out about breeding and post your successes without fear of reprisal!


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## magic104 (25 May 2011)

Anastasia, sorry but I still think most of it is Admin themselves.  I dont doubt there are those jealous sad souls with nothing better to do.  And may karma pay them back for their petty little deeds, but I still say we are being monitored more then Admin would like us to believe.


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## shirleyno2 (25 May 2011)

I just think we should all be allowed to post foal pictures, [I'm useless at it anyway!!] Breeding equals foals. Simple. 
Carry on Cruiseline, your breeding plans and knowledge are excellent, sod the button pushers and admin!


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## Anastasia (25 May 2011)

magic104 said:



			Anastasia, sorry but I still think most of it is Admin themselves.  I dont doubt there are those jealous sad souls with nothing better to do.  And may karma pay them back for their petty little deeds, but I still say we are being monitored more then Admin would like us to believe.
		
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Perhaps magic....

I remember what this forum was like for a start, full of lots of eager breeders who were just thrilled to post about the good news of their foals born.  Now it seems that only the private one horse breeder can post, while those with a stud are basically being discriminated against for fear that it may be seen as advertising, even though the person with the one horse could also be selling said foal.  Its all double standards, and as for the people who have so much time on their hands to keep on reporting threads, well they need to get a life really, and if they are not happy with their own breeding programme then they need to do something about it!

HHO Admin need to take their head out their behinds and wake up to the reality of what a breeding forum is about.  Its about sharing news and gaining knowledge, and you cant do any of that without posting pictures.  The more they stomp on breeders the less likely they will ever advertise in their magazine, so they are not even helping themselves, let alone have more knowledgable breeders on their forums.


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## LynneB (26 May 2011)

I think it is also worth their sitting up and taking note that there are many breeders who have been so upset by having their posts deleted and being banned that they have stopped buying the paper version of H&H too.  

Surely alienating breeders, which is actually a large part of the equestrian population in this country, is not a good business move.  They may try to salvage their obviously thousands of pounds of lost revenue due to people posting photos of their stallions and foals (cough) but they will lose just as much when people no longer buy or advertise with them due to being treated so shoddily.


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## angrovestud (26 May 2011)

I was told someone had complained about my post last year as it was titled Riccos youngstock it was actually other peoples youngstock that were out and about showing in coloured classes I think the peope who push buttons are fellow stud owner and buisness rivals. 
and they push the botton when they see you doing well if your having rpblems oh it can stay!


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## Thistle (26 May 2011)

Surely breeding is the future of ALL equine industry in any country. After all, every horse starts out life as a foal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Alec Swan (26 May 2011)

I agree with just about every comment,  so far,  but specifically LynneB's.

We have to consider that Admin,  are probably paid staff and that they are following the prescribed instructions of their employers,  IPC Media.  I'm not sure about The FC,  and I suspect that he's an honorary prefect!! (It's probably covered by the OSA,  so we wont find out for 30 years,  and by which time,  we'll have lost interest!!)

Those who take part in this forum must be a near minuscule percentage of those who buy the H&H,  as a journal.  IPC Media,  are most certainly loosing a great deal of respect,  from those who feel that the petty,  pointless and puerile decisions taken,  regarding what is acceptable and what isn't,  are quite simply,  turning this breeding section into a farce.

Foals are the result of breeding.  Fact.  Those who contribute,  generally,  look for affirmation that they've made the right decisions.  Fact.  I have NEVER seen a foal offered on here for sale.  Fact,  and anyway,  the decision to sell or to keep,  is rarely made in the first few weeks of birth.

I'm going to PM The FC,  and ask if he,  or another,  can join this thread,  and clarify the forum owner's rational behind the decisions which have been taken.

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (26 May 2011)

I've been in touch with TFC,  and I've received a well reasoned and argued response.

I can't,  and wont quote it,  word verbatim,  but the gist of it is,  that Admin need to be approached,  and if the current policies are considered unworkable,  then an approach should be made to them.  

I'm now wondering how we collectively approach Admin,  and request a more workable approach to life,  though it's unlikely that they will become involved in a public debate. 

Anyone got any thoughts?

Alec.


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## htobago (26 May 2011)

Whaaaat?!! Cruiseline has been banned???!! CRUISELINE???

Sorry - I have considerable sympathy for TFC, who has a difficult and thankless job, but the button-pushing clearly has become completely ridiculous if someone like Cruiseline can be banned! 

Cruiseline has never posted anything that could possibly be construed as 'advertising'. When someone asks for stallion suggestions, even if her boy ticks all the boxes on their wish-list, she is still scrupulously careful to recommend other stallions as well.

Thanks Alec - TFC does seem like a reasonable person, and I'm happy to join you in any approach to admin about this situation. Although like you I'm not sure how we can do this collectively, except through threads like this one?


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## htobago (26 May 2011)

cliodhna said:



			It definately seems to be a poster with a vendetta against CL as maaany other posters have given details on dam and sire's breeding and never had their threads pulled, let alone be banned!!  I myself have, I even posted a link to the stud of the stallion as I didnt realise I was rule breaking and nothing happened!!

FGS button pusher, if you are reading this, seriously get a life. Everyone except you enjoys the foal posts and the point of the breeding forum is to LEARN about breeding practises and naming stallions and the dam's sire is important to those considering said stallions and it is interesting to see pics of their progeny. 

What if you are a one stallion owner, like htobago? How is it fair that mare owners can post pictures and they cant share the excitement of their breeding acheivements.

Click to expand...

Thank you cliodhna!

I think I must be in the worst position possible on this forum. I am a one-horse owner - a typical, besotted one-horse owner who loves to chat about her horse, share photos, etc. 

But I can't post photos or anything about my horse because he is a stallion and stands at stud. Nor can I even post photos or news of his foals - despite constantly being asked to do so by other forum members.

I hate sound like a moaner, but it does seem a little bit unfair that mare owners can post photos of foals that will clearly be for sale, while I can't post photos of foals that don't even belong to me and are not for sale.

Much, much more important - as everyone else has said, this is supposed to be a *breeding* forum. Breeders need to see, assess and discuss stallions, mares, foals and youngstock. Even with the best will in the world, these essential detailed assessments and discussions of breeding stock cannot possibly be achieved exclusively through adverts in Horse & Hound!

So please, admin, allow the dedicated breeders on here to see *all* the horses that are the future of British breeding, not just those who happen to belong to breeders without stallions of their own.


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## KarynK (26 May 2011)

Good Idea TFC and others so

How about something along these lines:

EVERYONE can post pictures of foals they have bred or friends have bred and even talk about achievements of older youngstock and horses, but it must be mentioned in the post heading i.e foal pictures or something similar and also they must state that they own or have an interest in the sire in any given case, sires and dams details can be listed for all to see.  

Then we can see for ourselves what types a stallion is producing from different mares and go ahhh at all those cute babies,  but it also assists breeders looking to produce the next generation of British bred horses, so the forum helps promote and improve British Breeding and we get to see all the babies not a select few!!

Then people can choose to look at the post or if they are currently a button pusher they can now choose not to look and would now have no reason to push the button, or they get off their chairs and post pics of their own stock and stop the preoccupation with what others have!!

No mention of sale or any implications that they might be for sale whatsoever in the young stock posts nor any mention of stud fees or where and how that stallion stands.

No posts with the purpose of blatantly advertising stallions, but stallion owners can respond if the poster asks for suggestions, then they should be able to respond for that mare / mare owner, stating why they think their stallion would suit that mare (possibly make this a requirement then at least some thought must go into responding on a stallion owners part!), so the mare owner gets proper reasoned feedback.

Stop pussy footing around and if someone transgresses these simple rules then zero tolerance and an immediate ban results and for persistent offenders a permanent one.

We or admin put this or any other proposals up on this forum as a vote, everyone responds how they see fit even the button pushers can have their say so its open and transparent, then majority rules!


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## KarynK (26 May 2011)

Oh and PS Bring back CRUISELINE NOW!!!!  It's a travesty of justice do it quick before we involve Liberty International!!!!!!


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## GinnieRedwings (26 May 2011)

Go Karyn... On both counts!

& I'm in!


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## magic104 (26 May 2011)

Very often mares get left off the stallion page, at least on here you can get so see what both parents have produced.  You can then see how well the stallion stamps his mark & if he is likely to suit your mare.  Cuts back on travelling all over, though obviously the stallion shows help with that as well.

So photos of foals along with their breeding & then of them growing up, the more the merrier.  And when a stallion is suggested for a mare, as already said, how about a reason why he has been put forward.  What will he contribute to the mix will certainly help other mare owners.


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## Kaylum (26 May 2011)

There is no point in having a breeding forum if you cannot post pictures of your foals, stalliions or mares because there is nothing to talk about.


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## equestrianabbie (26 May 2011)

Wow, literally lost for words.  Damn button pushers.


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## Spring Feather (27 May 2011)

Kaylum said:



			There is no point in having a breeding forum if you cannot post pictures of your foals, stalliions or mares because there is nothing to talk about.
		
Click to expand...

*gulp*  I've never posted photos of my foals, stallions or mares but I've managed to rack up 500 posts mostly all in this breeding forum


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## cliodhna (27 May 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			*gulp*  I've never posted photos of my foals, stallions or mares but I've managed to rack up 500 posts mostly all in this breeding forum 

Click to expand...

But how many of your posts were replying to those who had posted pictures?


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## KarynK (27 May 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			I've been in touch with TFC,  and I've received a well reasoned and argued response.

I can't,  and wont quote it,  word verbatim,  but the gist of it is,  that Admin need to be approached,  and if the current policies are considered unworkable,  then an approach should be made to them.  

I'm now wondering how we collectively approach Admin,  and request a more workable approach to life,  though it's unlikely that they will become involved in a public debate. 

Anyone got any thoughts?

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

Alec would you like to put the proposal forward to admin as you now have a good working relationship with TFC and ask them to set up a voting post on the Breeding Forum for them? 

So something like this if everyone agrees?

Anyone can post pictures of youngstock they have bred, but must declare any interest in the stallion involved. Sire and Dam names and breed can be listed.  The post title must include the name of the sire so for instance  "My Foal by".

No posts with the purpose of blatantly advertising of stallions or the sale of mares or youngstock, and no indication that anything posted on here is for sale or loan.

Stallion owners can respond to posts asking for suggestions, but must state why they think their stallion would suit that mare.

Any transgressions of these simple rules will result in an immediate ban and for persistent offenders a permanent ban.


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## KarynK (27 May 2011)

BTW we know who TFC is he was outed on facebook where his alter ego resides (who takes no notice whatsoever of button pushers or naughty words).


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## eventrider23 (27 May 2011)

KarynK - where was he outed???


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## TallyHo123 (27 May 2011)

All getting a bit pathetic! I prefered H&H when I first joined but ah well.
Congrats on a stunning foal though.


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## KarynK (27 May 2011)

eventrider23 said:



			KarynK - where was he outed???
		
Click to expand...


Well when confronted he never denied it!!!
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_143818049022472&view=permalink&id=143857612351849

You have to scroll down a bit!


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## eventrider23 (27 May 2011)

Eothain???  He started the FB group so wouldn't have thought it was him but stand to be corrected.


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## GinnieRedwings (27 May 2011)

eventrider23 said:



			Eothain???  He started the FB group so wouldn't have thought it was him but stand to be corrected.
		
Click to expand...

Not a chance... 

Edited to definitely remove the  bit.
No, not a chance.


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## ILuvCowparsely (27 May 2011)

OMG  ...  what happened to free speech   you can post a picture of your beloved animals which are no longer with us but you cant post pictures of your new babies who have  been born  recently where is the logic.. 

you can view deceased  pics
but not newly born 


I wonder if they would remove them if you posted the pics in the  gone but not forgotten  thread  answer prob not     .

 Beautyfull babie by the way  I love to see baby pics   ( equine ones)


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## htobago (27 May 2011)

KarynK said:



			Alec would you like to put the proposal forward to admin as you now have a good working relationship with TFC and ask them to set up a voting post on the Breeding Forum for them? 

So something like this if everyone agrees?

Anyone can post pictures of youngstock they have bred, but must declare any interest in the stallion involved. Sire and Dam names and breed can be listed.  The post title must include the name of the sire so for instance  "My Foal by".

No posts with the purpose of blatantly advertising of stallions or the sale of mares or youngstock, and no indication that anything posted on here is for sale or loan.

Stallion owners can respond to posts asking for suggestions, but must state why they think their stallion would suit that mare.

Any transgressions of these simple rules will result in an immediate ban and for persistent offenders a permanent ban.
		
Click to expand...

This sounds great to me, but I somehow doubt that admin will accept it. 

But just in case there is a chance of this proposal getting accepted, could we possibly alter it just slightly to allow people to post photos of foals or youngstock that they have not bred themselves? 

This is not just a selfish request - I'm sure there are other stallion owners here who would like to post photos of their stallions' foals from outside mares. And breeders on here who would like to see these foals and get an idea of what British stallions are producing from a wide range of different types of mare.


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## htobago (27 May 2011)

Trying to see this from Horse & Hound's point of view, I really don't think that they lose any advertising revenue when people post photos or news of their stallions, mares and foals on here. 

Nobody could possibly afford to take out an ad in a magazine every time a foal is born, or a yearling wins at a show, or a youngster looks cute playing in a paddock, for heaven's sake! 

If we are not allowed to share these kind of informal, detailed, day-to-day updates and photos on here, we don't rush to book ads in H&H instead - we simply go to other forums.  So H&H gains nothing in advertising income by banning this.


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2011)

KarynK said:



			Alec would you like to put the proposal forward to admin as you now have a good working relationship with TFC and ask them to set up a voting post on the Breeding Forum for them? 

So something like this if everyone agrees?

Anyone can post pictures of youngstock they have bred, but must declare any interest in the stallion involved. Sire and Dam names and breed can be listed.  The post title must include the name of the sire so for instance  "My Foal by".

No posts with the purpose of blatantly advertising of stallions or the sale of mares or youngstock, and no indication that anything posted on here is for sale or loan.

Stallion owners can respond to posts asking for suggestions, but must state why they think their stallion would suit that mare.

Any transgressions of these simple rules will result in an immediate ban and for persistent offenders a permanent ban.
		
Click to expand...

Karyn,

certainly I'll open the negotiations,  but before I do,  perhaps we should all consider,  that if Admin are to relax,  or agree to amend the T&Cs,  then we all have to acquire a collective responsibility.  

I've been advised,  privately,  that there are those who've abused the facilities.  I've never yet seen such abuse,  but presumably if they hadn't,  nigh on two years ago,  then the T&Cs wouldn't have been altered.

I would also point out that The FC,  has responded to a query in the _Feedback_ section,  which makes interesting reading.  The same TFC doesn't make the decisions,  he/she simply follows instructions,  so berating the The FC,  is pointless.

If I'm to approach Admin,  in an initial capacity,  then there seems little point in a poll!!  We know what the results of that will be,  don't we?!  It _MAY_ be possible,  that a sensible debate could be entered into,  some common ground found,  to the betterment of our enjoyment,  and the relief of The FC.

I'll have a go,  if you wish,  but it wont happen overnight.  Let me know what you think.

Alec.

Ets,  a brief and simple Yes or No answer,  from those with an interest will be enough.  We don't need a poll,  about a poll,  just some support,  or not.  Let me know how you all feel.  a


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## ILuvCowparsely (27 May 2011)

Well I have pictures of Diamonds foal ( now 10)  he wont ever be sold    and they are 10 years old but would they be deleted?


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## Spring Feather (27 May 2011)

cliodhna said:



			But how many of your posts were replying to those who had posted pictures?

Click to expand...

I don't know; maybe 10 or 20?


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## KarynK (27 May 2011)

Ok go for it Alec but add in htobago's bit as well !!


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## dianchi (27 May 2011)

Perhaps each stallion owner can have ONE thread that they are allowed to post progeny pictures on, ie "Avanti Amourous Archie Foals 2011" ))
Or if it makes it easier to police have a Progeny board?
In addition to obv being able to answer the "what would suit my mare" post etc
I dont think that there should be any advertising or direct links to studs in sigs still.

Hope this makes sense!


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## flyingcolors (28 May 2011)

I think a foals 2011 theme would make the most sense. With no indication of sale or not sale, just birth date and sire and dam.


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## Alec Swan (28 May 2011)

flyingcolors said:



			I think a foals 2011 theme would make the most sense. With no indication of sale or not sale, just birth date and sire and dam.
		
Click to expand...

By that,  do you mean a separate forum section,  or a condition attached to those putting up pics on the Breeders section?

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (28 May 2011)

I've sent a PM to Admin,  asking for their thoughts as to how we may resolve our current difficulties.  I very much doubt that they will want to join in with a public debate,  and having given my word that I will not repeat the details of their response,  then I shall have to stick to that.

Apart from The FC,  who never seems to sleep! I would imagine that we will have to wait until Monday,  before there is any sort of reply.  I will let you know how I get on!

Alec.


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## Maesfen (28 May 2011)

flyingcolors said:



			I think a foals 2011 theme would make the most sense. With no indication of sale or not sale, just birth date and sire and dam.
		
Click to expand...

We already have one of those each year, they're stickied.


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## Alec Swan (28 May 2011)

An interesting point Maesfen,  and I'll admit,  that I never actually look at them!! 

If Admin point out that as the facility is already in place,  what's the point in duplicating it,  then I'm not too sure how that could be countered.

Alec.


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## Sportznight (28 May 2011)

I must admit that I never look in there either.  It just never crosses my mind to do so.  I guess it's because it's difficult to have conversation about a foal in there, due to the confusion created by lots of foal pics - it's not terribly user friendly.  

Alec, you efforts are commendable!  Thank you


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## Eothain (28 May 2011)

Eh ... TFC? Me? Nope!


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## magic104 (28 May 2011)

Sportznight said:



			I must admit that I never look in there either.  It just never crosses my mind to do so.  I guess it's because it's difficult to have conversation about a foal in there, due to the confusion created by lots of foal pics - it's not terribly user friendly.  

Alec, you efforts are commendable!  Thank you 

Click to expand...

Snap/Ditto


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## Maesfen (28 May 2011)

Sportznight said:



			I must admit that I never look in there either.  It just never crosses my mind to do so.  I guess it's because it's difficult to have conversation about a foal in there, due to the confusion created by lots of foal pics - it's not terribly user friendly.  

Alec, you efforts are commendable!  Thank you 

Click to expand...

I agree with you, it's not the place for a chat, just an announcement which defeats the object but I suppose better than all those threads being removed or stallion owners being banned - as long as stallion owners are able to post pics of foals by their stallions in there as well of course - otherwise the Breeding Forum is pretty worthless as not everyone likes to use Facebook.


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## Rollin (28 May 2011)

I don't look at foals either.  So that is most of us!!

Perhaps it is because foals are born from Jan-June and it means scrolling through pages, whereas this forum is current and topical and so the best place for foals.


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## JanetGeorge (28 May 2011)

Well I had a lovely filly this morning - but you can't have a pic because she is by my stallion!  Thankfully, HE is producing fillies this year - unlike a certain other stallion I could name!


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## Enfys (29 May 2011)

Janet, Congratulations.

This is what gets me, I can and do, put up photos of my foals by my own stallion..
what the heck is the difference between me doing that and you doing it?


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## magic104 (29 May 2011)

Enfys said:



			Janet, Congratulations.

This is what gets me, I can and do, put up photos of my foals by my own stallion..
what the heck is the difference between me doing that and you doing it? 

Click to expand...

I am guessing loss of revenue, stallion owners in this country could possibly use this as a free way of advertising.  Your stallion is not going to take away revenue as you are hardly going to use H&H to advertise him anyway.  H&H have improved, but there are other publications like Horse Deals (also owned by IPC) that do a better job of promoting breeding
IMO


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## flyingcolors (29 May 2011)

I think people do have very clear ideas about which stallion they will use or not use so a photo will not really make them chose this or that stallion. I have started a website for the foals of the stallion that was inquired information here but when I told about this - I did not even post a picture! - I was warned. So I do not understand for what all that is good if you cannot give information. It was certainly not to promote anything as I do not even know the person that inquired and I think it was not her interst for breeding either, she just wanted some information. The stallion has anyway sold to Australia just recently.


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## JanetGeorge (29 May 2011)

magic104 said:



			I am guessing loss of revenue, stallion owners in this country could possibly use this as a free way of advertising.  Your stallion is not going to take away revenue as you are hardly going to use H&H to advertise him anyway.  H&H have improved, but there are other publications like Horse Deals (also owned by IPC) that do a better job of promoting breeding
IMO
		
Click to expand...

The ONLY place I advertise my boy is on the IDHS(GB) Yearbook & website as I don't WANT more than a handful of outside mares for him - and I'd prefer RID mares.  Not being snobby about it - but he IS 20 and I am 'nursing' him along a bit.  I'm also too over-stocked to have much room for outside mares.

IPC DOESN'T own Horse Deals - I know there were plans for IPC to buy it in 2006, but there was a 'competition' enquiry and the deal was cancelled.  Horse Deals is now owned by Bauer Media - which also publishes Your Horse.  And Horse Deals is doing a feature On Irish Draughts in July - which my boy will pobably be in (DO hope the photographer Photoshops out the poo stains he was wearing when she visited!)


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## pintoarabian (29 May 2011)

I do find it rather incongruous that a 'breeding' forum has so many don'ts, button pushers, threats of banning and warnings. I am a member of several forums and the other 'breeding' forums are less stringent. It is permissible to post pics of your own foals, even if you own the stallion. It is only blatant advertising that is not allowed.

It is to be hoped that Alec's reasoned approach to TFC will enable a relaxation of the rules to allow us to enjoy this section of HHO to a greater extent. Most breeders know their own minds and aren't swayed by hype and those who self-promote at any opportunity. In fact, that is inclined to put me right off. I like to think that I am adult enough to make up my own mind but do enjoy seeing what other people breed and what they like.

I hope that there will be a more positive way forward and that HHO 'Breeding' forum will become a more enjoyable place to visit where we can all enjoy the fruits of each others' labours.

I agree that blatant advertising and intimation of stock for sale should not be allowed but please relax the rules on breeders posting foal pictures, regardless of whether they are stallion owners or not. Getting a foal is what breeding is all about. It's a rocky path to get as far as a healthy foal so, please, let us be allowed to celebrate our achievement with those who are interested.


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## htobago (29 May 2011)

Sportznight said:



			I must admit that I never look in there either.  It just never crosses my mind to do so.  I guess it's because it's difficult to have conversation about a foal in there, due to the confusion created by lots of foal pics - it's not terribly user friendly.  

Alec, you efforts are commendable!  Thank you 

Click to expand...

Very good point SN - the stickied threads are always too long and confusing and cumbersome. It's very difficult to find anything or have any sort of proper conversation on a 'War and Peace'-length thread like that.

Plus it seems a bit daft to allow people to post about their horses on one thread but not another - it's all the same sub-forum, after all!


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