# Horse loan issues



## angel659 (29 September 2014)

Hi,

I am part loaning a horse for 2 days a week and pay £15 a week. However, we have had excuses after excuses about my daughter riding and now she said that the saddle does not fit. Therefore, we are paying for chores only. People keep saying that I should not be paying to only do horse care if not riding, but I have not loaned before and do not know if this normal.

If you were loaning a horse for non riding at present would you expect money? 

Thank you.


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## fliffkins (29 September 2014)

Personally yes, sadly one of the downsides of having horses is that there may be periods of time when riding isn't possible, these times are good excuses for bonding time, plenty of grooming and tail washing, hand walking for grass and a chat, these were some of my favourite times as a kid, also if pony still needs exercising then lunging or free schooling. If we have a bad winter again there could be times where it's not possible to ride for weeks .... but sadly we can't just pick and choose when we pay.
However if this is a new agreement and non riding has been going on for some time then you need to decide whether to stick with or look for another pony. Have a chat with the owner and discuss your concerns , but remember that riding isnt the be all and end all and as an owner i wouldn't  like to think that that is all a loanee is bothered about, but also the care and welfare of the pony. can the pony not be ridden bare back?


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## angel659 (29 September 2014)

Hi, thank you for your feedback. Personally I am enjoying caring for the horse, cuddles, grooming, bonding etc. however, my daughter who is 14 is disappointed as she wants to ride her and yes she can bare back, but my daughter is being picky. I won't be riding anyway, I enjoy spending time up there, I have other people commenting on that you should not be paying if your not riding. I thought it was because I was involved with the horses care regardless of riding. I wanted to know what other people felt and who was right, as I have not done this before. I love the horse to pieces and I know with winter coming up riding would be limited, but I think it was just how she went about making so many excuses that we felt we were being played. We do not have the bridle for bare backing either. I will be buying a cavesson for lunging and a line, but without a bridle I am guessing bare backing would be a no.


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## fliffkins (29 September 2014)

I would ask for the bridle so your daughter could ride bare back, even if it's just a little walk (as long as pony is safe to do so ) maybe press to see when saddle fitter is coming out etc. Who does the pony the other 5 days? Does the owner have a reason for not wanting the pony ridden?  Did your daughter manage to get any riding done at the start of the loan agreement? How experienced a rider is your daughter? What kind of reasons has the owner given? Sorry for the questions, just trying to work out if owner is being genuine or nor.


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## angel659 (29 September 2014)

The owner is doing the other 5 days, she currently lives out and is grass fed only. The horse can be a little green, has bucked her owner off with a saddle but seems fine bare back. When we first loaned it was agreed that she would ride twice a week, meet up to pick up the tack, as long as she is lead reined to start with. I was fine with that. Then the owner said she wanted her ridden twice a week, we would have the tack on the Saturday. I asked if she could us her tack and saddle again and to lead rein my daughter just for us all to be happy before started the riding on our own. However she was in season that day and didn't want to play ball. The owner gave up and said that she was concerned the saddle was too small, hence why she tries to get you off, but likes bare backing when she hacks her out. The horse is extremely overweight, I cannot imagine how uncomfortable it would be for her to ride anyway, so lunging is my thought for her to have exercise twice a week with us. Anyway, yesterday I got a text saying she cannot get a saddle until after christmas and that she will try hacking the horse out on bare back. When we were there the girth belt seemed very hard to put on initially, but the owner said she was puffing her air out and you will be able to tighten after lunging. I really don't know, I'm ok about all of this, but my husband and daughter are not happy. I plan to buy in February or re home a horse, so having this for caring for a horse is not a problem. My daughter is a novice rider and wants to ride more than she can, she has every other week riding lessons at a centre. Sorry long reply.


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## fliffkins (29 September 2014)

Ok so it does sound that the owners reasons are genuine and I'm guessing the wait for the saddle is financial reasons. However chances are (at a guess) the current saddle doesn't fit due to the horse being overweight, I wouldn't want to be riding a horse that saddle isn't fitting and causing her to buck, and even worse with a novice rider. IMO if its going to be after Xmas till you can ride and you are getting your own in Feb I would walk away, chances are there will be someone who would love to have their pony lookec after and excersised over winter, I would put the feelers out, advertise on preloved and local tack shops, state that you are looking for a part loan just for the winter, someone will take you up on it, I know I would! One of mine is currently advertised for part loan for a year, which I have done as I'm not allowed to ride for 6 months but didnt want someone doing winter and me taking him back when the good weather arrives and the fun riding can begin!


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## gembear (29 September 2014)

It sounds like your daughter needs to realise that horses are not just for riding, and there is a lot of other work involved too. Things can happen, horses go lame all the time and that could mean no riding for some time depending on the circumstances. If she wants her own pony in the future, then you need to make sure she is committed otherwise it sounds like you'll be doing all the work! Unless you're okay with that, but every parent has their own philosophy. 

I currently have a share, and recently he went lame after an accident in the field. We had a comp later that day that we had to pull out of, obviously meant money and time lost. Thankfully he wasn't lame for long, however it never occurred to me to not pay the owner and I still came down to see him regardless of no riding. 

I think if it is a geniune issue with the saddle, you need to decide/your daughter/your hubby if horses are really for you, if you're not happy about not being able to ride. A horse is not a trophy, that you can get rid of or ignore easily when it doesn't suit.

If the owner is being a bit cagey about the saddle and you suspect something is a bit off... then have an honest chat with her and decide if you're better off finding another loan.

I hope you get it sorted.


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## angel659 (29 September 2014)

Thank you. I totally agree I would not want a horse ridden under those circumstances, hence why I would not even attempt bare back myself. I enjoy standing in the friend poo picking, watching her in the field, giving her cuddles etc. my daughter enjoys that too, but she is eager to get moving with her riding. I have said to her that I will pay for lessons every other week, I am paying for our loan and putting money away for Feb. I rather loan first so my daughter can experience winter weather. I agree that I could walk away, she is aware that we are looking to buy in feb. I really care for the horse already. I'm fed up with having to justify why I am paying when my husband thinks it's overpriced. Then again he isn't in to horses anyway. I just worry about the horse and lack of exercise, if she was a companion horse only and was told that then that's absolutely fine, I agree there is much more to looking after a horse other than riding etc.


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## honetpot (30 September 2014)

If this situation is long term I would stop the horse share, I call this situation long term. With the money saved your daughter could have a lesson every other week. My daughters both rode and has their own ponies and are well aware that there are time when a pony can not and should not be ridden but as teenagers they would be pretty teed off if they couldn't ride because the saddle didn't fit. 
  I used to loan out my old ponies and if the children were not able to ride I would expect the pony back. The fact that the saddle doesn't fit, the pony is too fat and puts in a buck and they can not get a saddle till after Christmas should ring alarm bells. They are either very novice owners or you are paying the ponies keep, god forbid they should get a vets bill. When I loan a pony out it comes with a saddle, bridle and a full set of rugs that fit and I am paying someone to help do my chores.


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## angel659 (30 September 2014)

Sorry my post wasn't clear, I am happy paying for the loan and lessons every other week, instead of weekly lessons. 

I definitely see what your saying, it seems to have got less and less. I have mentioned the bridle, but without the saddle she doesn't see the point. I was more seeing what she would allow, with my daughters riding skills, I would not allow her to bare back anyway.

Yes, I would hope for no vet bills too, I do feel that I'm funding it rather than anything else, especially as she is grass fed and no straw or hay has been ordered. I will reconsider the loan, but paid up until mid oct. I have to give 2 weeks notice. I don't want to seem out of order, when I do know there is more to having a horse than riding.

Thanks for your advice.


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## Auslander (30 September 2014)

Whilst I think it's important that sharers are fully involved in all aspects of a horses care, not just the riding - I think this situation is unfair. It's not as if your daughter has had months of riding, and is now having an enforced break. She's never been able to ride the horse, and it doesn't sound like it's going to happen any time soon. I appreciate that you enjoy the work involved, but personally, i don't think you should be paying to do it when you can't reap any of the benefits of that work i.e.; a horse to ride.

I have a sharer for one of mine. She has a full set of tack for him, which lives in her car, so she can ride him whenever she likes. She does all the chores, through choice, and recently had to have a break from riding him because he had a nasty abscess which has meant two months off work. Prior to that, she had plenty of fun on/with him, so she wasn't bothered about not being able to ride - I offered to terminate the share because he wasn't rideable, and she refused. 

I wouldn't dream of charging a new person to look after a horse they weren't able to ride!


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## JennBags (30 September 2014)

Auslander said:



			Whilst I think it's important that sharers are fully involved in all aspects of a horses care, not just the riding - I think this situation is unfair. It's not as if your daughter has had months of riding, and is now having an enforced break. She's never been able to ride the horse, and it doesn't sound like it's going to happen any time soon. I appreciate that you enjoy the work involved, but personally, i don't think you should be paying to do it when you can't reap any of the benefits of that work i.e.; a horse to ride.
		
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This ^^^^

I'm quite surprised at the amount of people that think this is a normal and acceptable position to be in.  It sounds to me as if the owner is completely taking the piss out of you.  Save the time and the money, either find a share where the pony is both rideable, and going to look after your daughter, or use the money for extra lessons at the riding school.


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## Goldenstar (30 September 2014)

I would terminate the share at once and look round for another.
I can't believe the cheek of people that's like my charging mu grooms to care for my horses,
As Jennbags says find a good riding school and spend the money on some lessons .


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## Equi (30 September 2014)

Id be running a mile!! This horse is not suitable and if it is as you say having so many issues it is not worth your time. You've done the caring and cuddling but realistically what experience in the long term can your daughter hope to gain with a horse in a field that she cant ride? Time to move on and get a horse on a yard that she CAN ride. To me it sounds like the owner is hinting that you should buy a saddle if you want to ride her horse. P.s. I totally do NOT agree with hacking bareback.


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## Kat (30 September 2014)

I agree with auslander,  this is a new share not a long standing one, the owner knows you will give up the share in February and has said that there is to be no riding until after Christmas. The only reason you can't ride is lack of a saddle,  not injury or ill health of the pony. She is taking the mick. Wonder what excuse she would come up with if you offered to buy your own saddle?  

In fact suggest buying your own saddle it could be a solution or it could show that she has no intention of letting your daughter ride. If you buy a second hand saddle you might be able to have it adjusted to fit your own pony and if not use it as part ex for a new one. If you do this do not let the owner use the saddle.  

On balance I would quit and find a new share or have extra lessons.


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## FestiveFuzz (30 September 2014)

angel659 said:



			Sorry my post wasn't clear, I am happy paying for the loan and lessons every other week, instead of weekly lessons. 

I definitely see what your saying, it seems to have got less and less. I have mentioned the bridle, but without the saddle she doesn't see the point. I was more seeing what she would allow, with my daughters riding skills, I would not allow her to bare back anyway.

Yes, I would hope for no vet bills too, I do feel that I'm funding it rather than anything else, especially as she is grass fed and no straw or hay has been ordered. I will reconsider the loan, but paid up until mid oct. I have to give 2 weeks notice. I don't want to seem out of order, when I do know there is more to having a horse than riding.

Thanks for your advice.
		
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It sounds like all parties involved are extremely novice and you would be best placed using the money you pay for a share for additional riding or horsemanship lessons. Depending on your contract you may be able to ask for some of your money back as you are not being provided with suitable tack to ride the horse in.

As an aside I don't suspect £15 a week will be funding much of the costs associated with the horse. H is on grass livery and costs me £190 per month before adding in shoes, physio, rug repairs and a vast array of other costs that crop up from time to time. I don't see why they would need straw if their horse lives out year round and depending on the set up at the yard wouldn't necessarily be alarmed that they haven't ordered hay/haylage - ours comes from the fields on the estate and is part of our monthly livery costs so doesn't need to be ordered in.


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## Wiz201 (30 September 2014)

I would suggest you ask at the current riding school or find another where you could possibly part loan one of their horses or ponies so you could get extra lessons and do some chores with assistance and supervision, and your daughter could then learn to do more of the chores. Or if they can't spare one, offer to do more chores and they may do discounted lessons?
Considering your daughter hasn't even started riding I would terminate the share.


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## ester (30 September 2014)

After Christmas!!!

I would be calling time on that arrangement, but agree that it would be best if you can get some more experience before getting your own.


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## angel659 (30 September 2014)

Hi, thank you for all of your comments. I have taken on aboard what you have said and I will be giving my 2 weeks notice. It's such a shame, the horse is lovely. My daughter comes first and needs to learn. She does pony club on a Saturday and the yard she can help out more while we look for another loan. Thank you everyone, really appreciate it.


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## Noodles_3 (30 September 2014)

It is a shame but you have been well and truly taken advantage of  maybe you'll notice the owner pull a finger out but I doubt it. Good luck for your next share pony.


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## Mumof4 (30 September 2014)

How sad for your daughter, I'm helping with a horse and haven't been able to ride her yet (mostly down to the fact I took a flying lesson off her other horse and have a injured knee lol) BUT she hasn't asked me for a penny!! (Although id be happy to as I'm so greatful for the confidence I'm gaining)

However I have paid £50 towards a chiropractor that I offered I wasn't asked at all! 

I think paying to look after someone else's horse with no insight to ever being able to ride it is unfair! (Especially at her age)

Oh and it's £65 for a stable and grass turn out here so depending on prices local to you I would say your pretty much paying for her ponys keep!


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## hotair (1 October 2014)

I dont think its fair at all to be paying for this part loan when your daughter hasnt been able to ride. It sounds as though the reason saddle cant be bought until after christmas is either lack of money or that she has no real intention of letting your daughter ride. Both are unfair, at the yard i keep my horse there are some grass liveries, they pay £15pw in summer and £20pw in winter so it sounds like you are just covering the owners costs! Glad to see you have given your notice! Good luck with new pony when you find one


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## angel659 (1 October 2014)

I know it's just frustrating really, feel sorry for the horse. She is getting bigger by the day and we can't exercise her without her bridle either, head collar is not ideal when lunging. We will still be doing it until 21st when our notice period ends. Thanks again for your help. 

I have definitely found out that I have paid 3/4 of the field fee.


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## Wiz201 (1 October 2014)

its unfair she can't even let you have the bridle. I understand you want to help but under the circumstances I would forgo the two weeks notice considering the owner isn't holding up her side of the contract unless she isn't charging you anymore money?


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## Sugar_and_Spice (1 October 2014)

I would use the situation to your advantage as much as possible. You could at least come out of this competant at leading and grooming. Leading to the yard from the field is easy because the horse knows what to expect and its easy to get into bad habits eg letting the horse potter along behind you. If you walk her out in hand you will find there are times when its more challenging and you need to do it properly keeping your wits about you. 

You could still buy lungeing equipment. A cavesson, rein and whip are not expensive and will be useful for your own horse too. Bridles can be bought very cheaply second hand. English leather lasts forever if properly cared for and many are sold with a bit and reins too. For a green horse you'd need to look for a simple snaffle bit in the right size. I presume you remember the bit the owner was using and can look for similar. Try eBay or Preloved website. Bridles being more adjustable than saddles and less specific in fit, it would likely fit your own horse too if you are thinking of buying the same sort of animal. 

TBH I'd be making some reins out of rope for the headcollar as a temporary measure and riding bareback in the field or other enclosed area. Bareback is very good for the riders balance. If you are any good at lungeing you could lunge the horse with your daughter on it so she only has to think of her position, not controlling the horse too. 

Even if all she did was ride at walk, your daughter could work on her riding position and aids, plus learn how to structure a schooling session with warm up, work and cool down. There's plenty of school movements and pole work exercises that can be taught in walk. 

It's true that the owner is ripping you off but if you give up this easily every time something goes wrong you wont find horse ownership much fun. You've given notice on this share which I can see why, and I'm sure you will find another share until February if you want, but I also think you may as well make the most of the time you have left.


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## angel659 (1 October 2014)

Thank you. I offered to buy a bridle, but was told no straight away. She only wants her horse using her bridle as she is used to that bridle only. I feel that I get constant obstacles. I was at the yard today, apparently the owner said she was jelous of us being with her horse but is getting over it. I don't mind with the horse care and i know any handling experience is very important, but I feel very restricted. I have thought about cavesson, but with everytime I suggest something I get something negative. I feel that all she wants is to do, cuddle, groom and water. Which is fine if this was explained at the beginning as I would have a different outlook on this.


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## Wiz201 (1 October 2014)

angel659 said:



			Thank you. I offered to buy a bridle, but was told no straight away. She only wants her horse using her bridle as she is used to that bridle only. I feel that I get constant obstacles. I was at the yard today, apparently the owner said she was jelous of us being with her horse but is getting over it. I don't mind with the horse care and i know any handling experience is very important, but I feel very restricted. I have thought about cavesson, but with everytime I suggest something I get something negative. I feel that all she wants is to do, cuddle, groom and water. Which is fine if this was explained at the beginning as I would have a different outlook on this.
		
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I'm sorry to say this but I don't know how or why you're persevering with this share even for two weeks notice. I would not be able to get along with that owner at all


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## Sugar_and_Spice (1 October 2014)

angel659 said:



			Thank you. I offered to buy a bridle, but was told no straight away. She only wants her horse using her bridle as she is used to that bridle only. I feel that I get constant obstacles. I was at the yard today, apparently the owner said she was jelous of us being with her horse but is getting over it. I don't mind with the horse care and i know any handling experience is very important, but I feel very restricted. I have thought about cavesson, but with everytime I suggest something I get something negative. I feel that all she wants is to do, cuddle, groom and water. Which is fine if this was explained at the beginning as I would have a different outlook on this.
		
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That's "cow poo" about being used to the bridle. Another bridle that fits and has the same/same size bit would do equally as well. If she's being this difficult I'd not be bothering to give her notice. 

No problem with her only wanting you to cuddle, groom, water but people don't generally charge for this! She is one cheeky madam for sure.


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## Pocket.Rocket (1 October 2014)

What a horrible situation!

I think you did the right think leaving the share.  Making someone pay to help with a horse without even having tack that fits it is beyond a joke.

Your poor daughter didnt even get to ride at all and expecting someone to wait til after Christmas for a saddle is ridiculous.    (I also think hacking out bareback sounds really dangerous).

It would be different if the poor horse went lame and actually couldn't be ridden perhaps but it all sounds like the owner is unwilling all round. 

IF (if!) your daughter had been riding and having fun and then something happened like a lameness -  yes I'd expect her to suffer no riding for a month or so and this can and will likely happen no matter what horse.    But for no saddle and never even getting the chance -  that's taking the proverbial!


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## be positive (1 October 2014)

angel659 said:



			Thank you. I offered to buy a bridle, but was told no straight away. She only wants her horse using her bridle as she is used to that bridle only. I feel that I get constant obstacles. I was at the yard today, apparently the owner said she was jelous of us being with her horse but is getting over it. I don't mind with the horse care and i know any handling experience is very important, but I feel very restricted. I have thought about cavesson, but with everytime I suggest something I get something negative. I feel that all she wants is to do, cuddle, groom and water. Which is fine if this was explained at the beginning as I would have a different outlook on this.
		
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She may be "getting over it" but has really taken liberties with your good nature not to mention the cash you are giving her for the privilege  of doing the work for her, to me it seems as if she wants it all on her terms, you owe her nothing in the way of notice as she has broken any agreement by not providing tack, yes if the pony was injured it would be different but it is not, get out and move on to someone who appreciates your help.


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