# best low cal/low sugar chaff?



## ThePony (5 March 2010)

Hi all,
My good doers are currently on Hifi lite, but I think molasses is added to it (why?!!!), does anyone have a recommendation for a low cal chaff that either doesn't have molasses in or that is lower sugar? 
Thanks loads!


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## JenTaz (5 March 2010)

Hi fi good doer would work lol it has almost no molasses in it at all its practically just chopped straw and hay and whatever else is in it

Safe and sound by dodsen and horrel, or happy hoof

hi fi lite is approved by the laminitus trust so i cannot imagine it will have that much molasses in it as i use that and its fine for my two who are good doers but get alot of work


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## TGM (5 March 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
Hi fi good doer would work lol it has no molasses in it at all its practically just chopped straw and hay and whatever else is in it


[/ QUOTE ]

From the Dengie website:

http://www.dengie.com/pages/products/alfa-a-and-hi-fi-ranges/hi-fi-good-do-er.php

The ingredients for Good Doer are: 
Cereal Straw, Alfalfa, *MOLASSES*, Mould Inhibitor, Antioxidant, Mint Flavour, Lysine, Zinc sulphate, Manganese sulphate, Vitamin E, Copper sulphate, Sodium selenite. Contains permitted EC preservatives and antioxidants: Propionic acid and its salt, Sorbic and Phosphoric acid and Butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA).

It is, however, one of the lowest calorie chaffs at 7 MJDE/kg.


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## Zebedee (5 March 2010)

D &amp; H Safe &amp; Sound is the one mine find the most palatable.


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## criso (5 March 2010)

Most have molasses in, even the hi fi lite has molasses extract.  The fact that they are approved by the laminitis trust is no guarantee that they are sugar free.

Topspec top chop lite is molasses free however it does work out more expensive than Hi Fi.


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## HelsB (5 March 2010)

Practically the only chaffs on the market without molasses and preservatives are the simple system ones - I've not found ANY alternatives to them (apart from plain straw chaff) when avoiding molasses!


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## stacey_lou (5 March 2010)

I feed my mare Allen and Page simply beacuse they do a range of feed with no MOLASSES beacuse they make her go crazy and Im happy so far, shes on below and so far I cannot fault it, she a hypre, good dooer and it works well for me the fast fiber i use insted of chaff

Fast Fiber - ' Fast Fibre is also barley and molasses free and is ideal for the good doer or for horses who tend to be hyper even on low energy feeds'

Ride and Relax - 'Ride &amp; Relax is a light, muesli mix for horses at rest or in light to medium work. Suitable for horses with an intolerance to barley, molasses or alfalfa. Ideal for horses which tend to get excited even on low energy mixes'


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## AngieandBen (5 March 2010)

Good Doer is 8% sugar!!!
As criso says the new Top Spec Top Chop Lite has no sugar,  Dengie Alfalfa Oil has no sugar and Simple Systems Lucie Stalks has nothing added at all.
Also Mollichaff High Fibre Alfalfa


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## AngieandBen (5 March 2010)

You need to look at the starch content too, anything under 10% starch and sugar combined is considered a low cal diet!
Ride and Relax is 15% starch, although as Pricess Tango says its molasses free!


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## ThePony (5 March 2010)

yikes, loads to think about, thanks guys!
Sugar sends her absolutly off her head! Hadn't thought about fast fibre, shall look in to it. Unfortunatly ride and relax sends her loopy too!  
Don't mind if it's a bit more expensive, a sane mare is worth the expense!


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## criso (5 March 2010)

It's a minefield, not helped by the fact you often don't get a complete list of ingredients apart from the white label attached to the bag.
I guess it depends a little on what you are trying to avoid and why.
I avoid sugar and sugar beet as my horse gets a little hyper on them but he is fine with alfalfa.
Other horses can't cope with Alfalfa so hifi and top chop are no good for them.
If your horse is very grass sensitive then you would probably avoid fast fibre which has grass in it or if your horse can't cope with sugar beet but it doesn't contain alfalfa.

Don't know the ingredients but some friends with hyper horses have had good results with mollichaff calmer which is a complete feed.


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## wizzlewoo (5 March 2010)

Fibre Care has less that 9% starch and sugar combined and also has a hoof supplement and MSM in, put on a post yeaterday that it was great for my boy as he could eat it and not be hungry just because he was on a diet and he found it really palatable. I pay £9 a bag from Frogpool.


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## Hippona (5 March 2010)

Mollichaff Hoofkind has 6%sugar and 2.2% starch.....plus all vits and mins.

http://www.horsehage.co.uk/MC-Hoofkind.html


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## TGM (5 March 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
You need to look at the starch content too, anything under 10% starch and sugar combined is considered a low cal diet!

[/ QUOTE ] 

That's actually not quite correct - low calorie and low soluble carbohydrate (starch/sugar) are not necessarily the same thing!  You could have a feed that is low in starch and sugar but very high in oil and then it would contain a lot of calories!


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## TGM (5 March 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
Fibre Care has less that 9% starch and sugar combined and also has a hoof supplement and MSM in, put on a post yeaterday that it was great for my boy as he could eat it and not be hungry just because he was on a diet and he found it really palatable. I pay £9 a bag from Frogpool. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of you may not be aware that it is common for stealth marketers to operate on this forum. This is someone who pretends to be a satisfied customer of a product but is actually working for the company and plugging the product on the forum.

If you look through Wizzlewoo's previous posts you will see that the majority of them are recommending Falcon Feeds (who make Fibre Care) and a supplement called Equi Elements, which is, surprise, surprise, registed to the same Shipley address as Falcon Feeds!

It is a shame such companies use such underhand tactics to promote their products. Surely, if the product is that good there would be plenty of genuine satisfied users endorsing the product on the forum.


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## ThePony (5 March 2010)

oh my goodness, I think my head is going to explode!  All I would like is hifi just without added sugar, I would have hoped it was an easy thing!
Thank you for all your suggestions, I shall hit google and find out sugar levels so I can compare.


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## TGM (5 March 2010)

Is there any particular reason for wanting to avoid molasses altogether?  Dengie Hi Fi Lite actually contains molasses extract (rather than actual molasses) and the sugar content is not particularly high.  Is your horse still loopy on the HiFi Lite?

What is of most importance to you - low calorie, low sugar or no molasses?


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## ThePony (5 March 2010)

Even a small amount of sugar seems to make her go nuts (she is a good doer and on very little so it makes it easier to work out what's affecting her), also it shows its affects in her feet - even a little can make them warm and I would like to see if barefoot works for her, so I think reducing her sugar further would help.  She is a good doer, so no need for extra calories from it, I just need chaff as something to add her supplements to - currently brewers yeast, magnesium and seaweed.


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## MrReally (5 March 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fibre Care has less that 9% starch and sugar combined and also has a hoof supplement and MSM in, put on a post yeaterday that it was great for my boy as he could eat it and not be hungry just because he was on a diet and he found it really palatable. I pay £9 a bag from Frogpool. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of you may not be aware that it is common for stealth marketers to operate on this forum. This is someone who pretends to be a satisfied customer of a product but is actually working for the company and plugging the product on the forum.

If you look through Wizzlewoo's previous posts you will see that the majority of them are recommending Falcon Feeds (who make Fibre Care) and a supplement called Equi Elements, which is, surprise, surprise, registed to the same Shipley address as Falcon Feeds!

It is a shame such companies use such underhand tactics to promote their products. Surely, if the product is that good there would be plenty of genuine satisfied users endorsing the product on the forum. 

[/ QUOTE ]





Maybe they work for Frogpool


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## wizzlewoo (5 March 2010)

Just wanted to add that i have PM'ed TGM as i am not a 'stelth marketer' and feel this is really unfair as i have now been publically humiliated just for posting about products that i use and recommend, is that not the point of the forum and questions?


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## TGM (5 March 2010)

Actually I didn't accuse you of being a stealth marketer, but I did alert users to the fact that we have a problem with stealth marketing on the forum.  I also pointed out that the majority of your posts were recommending Falcon Feeds.  If forum users wish to link the two facts, then that is their prerogative.

In your PM you threatened to report me to Admin if I spoke my mind on the subject again, so do feel free to do so.


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## wizzlewoo (5 March 2010)

I sent you a PM so as not to make a public display and sort out something like this in private as it has upset me that i can not now use the forum as i wish. As you obviously want to make this very public then please do so. I hope people do not put 2 and 2 together and make 6, and if they do then they are wrong. I have said enough on the subject and will just continue to enjoy the forum.


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## TGM (5 March 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
I sent you a PM so as not to make a public display and sort out something like this in private as it has upset me that i can not now use the forum as i wish. As you obviously want to make this very public then please do so. I hope people do not put 2 and 2 together and make 6, and if they do then they are wrong. I have said enough on the subject and will just continue to enjoy the forum. 

[/ QUOTE ] I would have kept it to PMs if you had done the same, but as you decided to post publically then I am quite entitled to reply!


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## wizzlewoo (5 March 2010)

As you are now ignoring me on the PM's then i hope that you have decided to be nice and a little more friendly as there is nothing worst on this forum than people who think they are higher and better than others.


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## wizzlewoo (5 March 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I sent you a PM so as not to make a public display and sort out something like this in private as it has upset me that i can not now use the forum as i wish. As you obviously want to make this very public then please do so. I hope people do not put 2 and 2 together and make 6, and if they do then they are wrong. I have said enough on the subject and will just continue to enjoy the forum. 

[/ QUOTE ] I would have kept it to PMs if you had done the same, but as you decided to post publically then I am quite entitled to reply! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

I mearly defended myself so that people did not get the wrong information.


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## fatpiggy (5 March 2010)

Try asking around and see if you can buy good old-fashioned chaff.  I used to buy it for a 44 year old who couldn't eat hay and I didn't want her being overloaded with sugar. It came in unlabelled white woven plastic sacks and was just chopped hay and a bit of straw.


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## SirenaXVI (5 March 2010)

You could try Badminton Easy Rider, it does not contain any added sugar, DE is 8.8 so great for good doers, I believe the starch level is around 6%.


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## ISHmad (5 March 2010)

We used to feed Simple Systems Lucie Stalks until the price went up yet again to something like £10.  That, combined with the cost of travelling about 25 miles round trip to pick it up, made it too expensive in the end.

So we changed to Top Chop Lite and our horses love it.  In fact one of ours eats his chaff before carrots or anything else in his feed, he loves the mint that's included in it.


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## Rosehip (5 March 2010)

Sorry to hijack slightly! But just wondered if the Top Chop lite was lower calorie than Hi Fi Lite? My 2 are amazingly good doers and I struggle to keep weight off even on a tiny amount of that and 24hr soaked hay. Cheers xx


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## MochaDun (5 March 2010)

TGM many of us on here probably use the same products or feeds year in year out and so are more than likely to recommend those that we like best which is probably what Wizzlewoo does.  

I know in the 6 years I've had my horse I've honed in on some makes I prefer and would use no others now so if people asked me on here what I thought was best I would recommend those and only those and after a few posts recommending the same make of product I would hope people wouldn't suppose I was up to stealth marketing.   For example, I know I've recommended a certain type of saddle twice across the last month or so on here but I don't work for a saddlery company.


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## spaniel (5 March 2010)

Please explain how it is necessary for someone whose horse is such a good doer to require a chaff at all??    Surely a flap of hay would do the trick.

I am often amazed at how many people genuinely believe their horses are intolerant to sugar/molasses/beet/oats etc when the amount of these substances that a horse actually consumes is negligible.   If your horse cannot eat grass or hay then I will believe that it is intolerant....theres far more 'sugar' in that than there ever is in a bag of feed.


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## ThePony (5 March 2010)

fatpiggy, that sounds like just the thing! Did you just get it from your local feed merchants? Will have to ask around.


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## TGM (5 March 2010)

MochaDun - two posts in a month amongst lots of other different posts doesn't make you a suspect for stealth marketing! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  As you rightly say, lots of people have their own favourite brands that they recommend, but they will post about lots of other things as well.   However, when about 75% or more of someone's posts recommend a particular brand then alarm bells start to ring!


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## ThePony (5 March 2010)

Hi Spaniel,
She just has it as something to add her magnesium, brewers yeast and seaweed to.  Our grazing isn't rich enough in the minerals she needs.
Unfortunatly even the sugar in the grass is enough to have a rather negative effect!  Any grass spurt sends my legendary safe as houses hack totally up the wall!


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## _HP_ (5 March 2010)

I use Fast Fibre for my supplements....no mollasses


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## alliebaxter (5 March 2010)

hi i use a cup of damp bran &amp; a handfull of readygrass to give my lad his supplements
i dont work for readygrass but if they want to send me any free samples then just PM me!


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## mrdarcy (5 March 2010)

I picked up some bags of Badminton Horse Feeds Easy Rider, Ultra Grass and Alfa Lite last weekend - all three molasses free and the horses really seem to like them... great value for money too. My only issue is my nearest stockist is 15 miles drive, which is a pain but I'm going to see if my local feed store will get it in for me. Definitely a good solution for those of us looking for molasses free chops at reasonable prices.


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## SmartieBean09 (6 March 2010)

Ive just started my pony on Top Chop lite instead of Happy Hoof just because it has no mollasses and she can be a bit of a piggy in the summer.

She seems to like it and it smells lovely.  Its also chopped short and it soft like Happy Hoof.

I personally love Happy Hoof but thought I would give this a go as she is looking good at the moment and I would like to keep it that way which means her diet starts now before the grass comes through!  

I would also be interested to know the nutritional analysis if anyone has that info?  The bag does not say although I thought they had to.  Will email them and ask too.


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## criso (6 March 2010)

Thought I woukd just say, if anyone on this forum either posting or lurking works for a feed company, could you please point them to the number of threads asking about molasses in feed. The fact we have these long discussions is because there are not many molasses free feeds out there and often you can't find the complete ingredients except on the white paper on the bag.

How about list of ingredients (with %) and nutritional analysis on your websites.


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## TGM (6 March 2010)

A lot of the companies have the nutritional analysis on their websites - ie % of protein, fibre, oil etc plus the calorie count (MJDE/kg).  However, not many have the ingredients on there, although I know Baileys do and Dengie have the ingredients of most of their range.  Some companies do put the starch content on their sites (such as Spillers) but not the sugar content (although I have suggested it to Spillers and they are considering it).

One of the worst culprits is Top Spec as they have hardly any information on their site!  They don't even have the MJDE/kg for Top Chop Lite which would be helpful as they say it is specifically for animals who need their weight controlling.  I have emailed them about queries in the past and suggested they put more information on the website but they say they are worried about people trying to copy their formulation.  What a stupid thing to say - if someone was that keen to copy them they would just look at the labels in the feedshop and jot the ingredients down from that!

So feed companies, take note - consumers would like to see ALL of the following information on your websites:

% of protein, oil, fibre, sugar and starch
Calorie count (MJDE/kg)
Full ingredients list


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## SmartieBean09 (8 March 2010)

Nutritional info to Top Chops

http://www.topspec.com/TopChop-Comp.htm


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## TGM (8 March 2010)

Thanks for posting that SB09 - now if they can put the MJDE/kg on their competition page, why can't they put it on the actual info page for the product!  I think they need to get their website a bit more organised!  They have a good range of products but it is hard to find all the info you need.


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## rangerover (12 March 2010)

Simple Systems Ruff Stuff but only if you don't have COPD.


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## Firewell (12 March 2010)

I have use falcon feeds in the past and have recommended them several times on here. Just because its an unusual brand doesn't make whoever recommends them a stealth marketer...


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## GREYSMEADOW (12 March 2010)

I no longer feed hifi lite to my Lami shetland nor happy hoof or hoofkind.  

A few weeks ago I posted on here that my shetland has a bad lami attack and found a lump of what looked like mollasses (half the size of a brick!) in the bottom of the bag (search for Hoofkind post).  

With the advice from forum readers I now use Top chop lite and fast fibre.  You need to look at the very small label which is usually stitched to the feed bags and you will be surprised with the amount of sugar/starch content - I was.  

I have just received my Greengrass from Simple Systems which was also recommended for my other boys as well.  Lucie stalks is also recommended but my shetland is not overweight.

I hope this helps - don't forget to read the small ingredients label.


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## PennyJ (12 March 2010)

Dodson and Horrell Fibergy is a good chaff to try and easily available, even if its a special order.  I had a molasses intolerant pony and this worked very well for him where many many others sent him loopy.  

I use oil coated alfalfa chops now to keep away from the molasses.


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