# Scraggy doodle  (some rescue piccies) and some of my lots (im bored)



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

How about that to add some extra dosh when I sell it. it will also shed less cos it's hair is so matted it literally cannot drop out now that's a propper non shedding scraggy doodle, I tell thee and it's healthier than the average dog, just cos I said so...right!







She was cute when she was a babba....she aint so cute now though eh

It's gonna be a baldy doodle the morrow as his back is like a rock hard tatt

A 14 months old west was gonna go to devon for being aggressive....was reserved today for her new home





All rescues






Handsome rescue boy done his rounds on gum tree and pre loved






My lazy beasts plus a home boarder that was a rescue from us


----------



## Slinkyunicorn (20 April 2012)

Great piccies Nice to see little Panckes putting in an appearance

That Lab is gorgeous - why is he in?


----------



## Dobiegirl (20 April 2012)

Lovely pics and as for the Labradoodle how did you know it is my very favourite fab breed, cant wait to see them at Crufts and they are wonderful for kids with allergies.

Is that the lovely Pancake in the bottom pic.


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

The lab was having to be left at home a ridiculous amout of hours due to work so was handed in, we have 5 in altogether

The lab has stayed longer than he should due to be getting very picky with his home, he is a very good guard dog I like that about him

Yes that is indeed panner the mountain goatalier


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			Lovely pics and as for the Labradoodle how did you know it is my very favourite fab breed, cant wait to see them at Crufts and they are wonderful for kids with allergies.

Is that the lovely Pancake in the bottom pic.
		
Click to expand...

Can I interest you jan...non shedding, will never suffer illness, better bred than a lab or poodle, will be cute when cut, not neutered yet a steal at £600


----------



## Slinkyunicorn (20 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			The lab was having to be left at home a ridiculous amout of hours due to work so was handed in, we have 5 in altogether

The lab has stayed longer than he should due to be getting very picky with his home, he is a very good guard dog I like that about him

Yes that is indeed panner the mountain goatalier

Click to expand...

5 Labs?

He sounds like Max - there has been more then one person trapped in my porch by him


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

Slinkyunicorn said:



			5 Labs?

He sounds like Max - there has been more then one person trapped in my porch by him

Click to expand...

Lol....yep 2 black bitches and 2 yellow dogs and a black boy.


----------



## Slinkyunicorn (20 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			Lol....yep 2 black bitches and 2 yellow dogs and a black boy.
		
Click to expand...

Send the one in the piccy to me

Why are the other ones in?

Is the white floofster a Labradoodle or is it just a random floofster?


----------



## Dobiegirl (20 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			Can I interest you jan...non shedding, will never suffer illness, better bred than a lab or poodle, will be cute when cut, not neutered yet a steal at £600
		
Click to expand...

I am waiting until they breed a black and tan one, its only a matter of time because these breeders are so careful and Im sure one will just pop out  one day with my name on it.

If Diesel hadnt been neutered Im sure he would shag it but as he has Im sure he would just eat it.


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

The floofster is indeed a labradoodle (lab x poodle)

2 black girls made homeless when their owner was or should I say they never took them to the acommodation they moved too.
2 yellow boys basically not wanted anymore, kids grown up and they are now kept outside (loverly dogs) and very well bred by the looks of their paper work.


----------



## xxMozlarxx (20 April 2012)

Wow..that's a true dog lover...what an embittered attitude!!


----------



## Slinkyunicorn (20 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			The floofster is indeed a labradoodle (lab x poodle)

2 black girls made homeless when their owner was or should I say they never took them to the acommodation they moved too.
2 yellow boys basically not wanted anymore, kids grown up and they are now kept outside (loverly dogs) and very well bred by the looks of their paper work.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Wow..that's a true dog lover...what an embittered attitude!!
		
Click to expand...


Thanks.....I do try


----------



## Dobiegirl (20 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Wow..that's a true dog lover...what an embittered attitude!!
		
Click to expand...

Cayla runs a rescue, all this is tongue in cheek.


----------



## Dobiegirl (20 April 2012)

So will you try to find me a black and tan one please.


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			So will you try to find me a black and tan one please.

Click to expand...

Oh I...im sure I can create one esp for u


----------



## Dobiegirl (20 April 2012)

Thankee


----------



## xxMozlarxx (20 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			Cayla runs a rescue, all this is tongue in cheek.

Click to expand...

That gives them the right to be horrid about a certain type of dog apparently??? A true dog or animal lover wouldn't dream of it. It's nasty and clear who/ what it's aimed at. Why not the rant at the lab breeders given there's 5 rescued???


----------



## IWillIfIWant (20 April 2012)

Why the hatred for the doodle??? These dogs are used as hearing dogs, search and rescue, blind dogs and help for the disabled!!!! No they are not completely allergen free but it is proven that they have a lower shedding rate and therefore can be better for people with allergies. Wonderful dogs and im sure we will indeed see them at crufts someday as all breeds have been developed over time by breeders....the lurcher, the jack russell.....  dont hear you hating on those breeds in fact isnt there a lurcher in your pic??? Also you have a Cavalier, dogs that are reknown for defects ie eye probs,heart probs!! And labs often have hip problems so should you not be hating on these breeds too???


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			That gives them the right to be horrid about a certain type of dog apparently??? A true dog or animal lover wouldn't dream of it. It's nasty and clear who/ what it's aimed at. Why not the rant at the lab breeders given there's 5 rescued???
		
Click to expand...


Oh yeah im so horrible and dreadful I have taken the dog on in the first place
Who was it aimed at then? breeder of these crosses who lie through their back teeth to sell them or those giving advice about them in ignorance? or the dog it's self?
I don't agree with any back street breeding or the mass promoting of it on forums! but I would assume the labs where not sold as non shedding, immune to ill health, and healthier than any other breed of dog. but still they should have been offered back up, all of them and they would not not be in a rescue situation, but the more misguided folk give out misinformed info on forums the more they will end up like this.

I will however back this dog up for life (even though I made not a damn penny from flogging it for cash!!!!!!!!


----------



## xxMozlarxx (20 April 2012)

I find the whole attitude totally bizarre to be honest, there are numerous non shedding dogs who need grooming and clipping or they become matted, the bitterness seems to be related to finance? Very very odd indeed, and the bandwagon jumping by others is a joke at best..but if you run a rescue centre you must know what youre talking about (apparently)


----------



## IWillIfIWant (20 April 2012)

Oh and why the reference to how much these dogs cost??? Bulldogs go for over £1000 and have serious health problems, pugs the same, infact many of the pedigree breeds have inherent health problems yet people think nothing of paying small fortunes just because they are "pedigree" dogs! I have three terrier mixes or mongrels and would pay £600 for them all day long as they are my much loved, very healthy angels and you cant put a price on that. Bitching at peoples breed choice is highly unprofessional if you do indeed run a reputable rescue centre!!!


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Why the hatred for the doodle??? These dogs are used as hearing dogs, search and rescue, blind dogs and help for the disabled!!!! No they are not completely allergen free but it is proven that they have a lower shedding rate and therefore can be better for people with allergies. Wonderful dogs and im sure we will indeed see them at crufts someday as all breeds have been developed over time by breeders....the lurcher, the jack russell.....  dont hear you hating on those breeds in fact isnt there a lurcher in your pic??? Also you have a Cavalier, dogs that are reknown for defects ie eye probs,heart probs!! And labs often have hip problems so should you not be hating on these breeds too??? 

Click to expand...


The hatred is for the back street breeder and the person who got shot of the dog in the state it is in
The bloke who first bred these dogs (if you care to look it up) said it's the biggest mistake he ever made due to the mass production and back street breeding going on in the breed, they are far from what they where bred from, they are now a discardible fashion accessory..
I did not buy the cav you prob missed me p taking when I introduced her too, but she is from health tested parents, she is a rescue and has no defects luckily, but indeed I do prefer breeding from health tested dogs not willy nilly money grabbing from x breeds, esp when money is passing hands at such a rate.
Lurcher have a purpose atleast unlike fashion accessories and are not sold by back street breeders with all sorts of lies attatched in oder to make them "special". Again they are rescues I never encouraged any back street breeding with any of my pet dogs, I instead offered the back up a breeder should have and I also took over where the idiot purchaser left off in offering a responsible home for dogs they have f ecked up.


----------



## Dobiegirl (20 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Oh and why the reference to how much these dogs cost??? Bulldogs go for over £1000 and have serious health problems, pugs the same, infact many of the pedigree breeds have inherent health problems yet people think nothing of paying small fortunes just because they are "pedigree" dogs! I have three terrier mixes or mongrels and would pay £600 for them all day long as they are my much loved, very healthy angels and you cant put a price on that. Bitching at peoples breed choice is highly unprofessional if you do indeed run a reputable rescue centre!!!
		
Click to expand...

Your comments are out of order, if you came on here regularly you will see Cayla only advocates responsible breeding with health tested parents and back up for life.


----------



## xxMozlarxx (20 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			Oh yeah im so horrible and dreadful I have taken the dog on in the first place
Who was it aimed at then? breeder of these crosses who lie through their back teeth to sell them or those giving advice about them in ignorance? or the dog it's self?
I don't agree with any back street breeding or the mass promoting of it on forums! but I would assume the labs where not sold as non shedding, immune to ill health, and healthier than any other breed of dog. but still they should have been offered back up, all of them and they would not not be in a rescue situation, but the more misguided folk give out misinformed info on forums the more they will end up like this.

I will however back this dog up for life (even though I made not a damn penny from flogging it for cash!!!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Genetics determine a diverse gene pool leads to fewer health issues, I've never read anyone saying NO health issues but cross breeds or mongrels DO have less inherited health issues, not rocket science. 
Some breeds do not shed hair in the same way as others and are less likely to make some allergies worse. 
Puppy farms sell far more pedigree dogs than they do poodle crosses, with far more inherited Heath problems.You will find far more Staffies/ terriers etc in rescue centres than you will poodle crosses. 
Always best to be factual and rational rather than emotive and biased I find.


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Oh and why the reference to how much these dogs cost??? Bulldogs go for over £1000 and have serious health problems, pugs the same, infact many of the pedigree breeds have inherent health problems yet people think nothing of paying small fortunes just because they are "pedigree" dogs! I have three terrier mixes or mongrels and would pay £600 for them all day long as they are my much loved, very healthy angels and you cant put a price on that. Bitching at peoples breed choice is highly unprofessional if you do indeed run a reputable rescue centre!!!
		
Click to expand...

You are clearly new to the forum and have missed a, alot of my posts, Im not posting a picture of a bull dog otherwise I may have commented about that and indeed I have commented about the over/irrisponsible breeding of many a dog/breed.
Any badly bred dog is diplorable, funnily enough we dont get many pugs or bull dogs, we get alot of designer x breeds, atleast with a pedigree you can do some clear research other than "it's cuteeeeeeee, buy one".  But still any dog bred for it looks and suffering because of it is just as bad as breeding a dog for it's fashionable ness, one commonly suffers ill health and the other suffers ill health (as lest not forget it aint any healthier because its a x) and being discarded of!
Not all bullies and pugs are badly bred, only the ones bred by back street breeders.


----------



## IWillIfIWant (20 April 2012)

Dear god, if you are an expert dog person you would know alot of cross breeds are infact mostly free of the inherent health problems an awful lot of pedigree dogs suffer with, this is not to say doodles are "immune" from health issues and i dont think any "joe average" person would be stupid enough to promote such rubbish nor believe it. I think this is an over exaggeration on your behalf as for some strange reason you have issues with this breed and therefore believe your views to be fact/right. Id like to point out that stating these dogs are "mass produced" and the breeders "lie through their teeth to sell them" is in fact not entirely true as plenty of these dogs are bred by good families/people with good cruft winning parentage and the breeder need not lie to sell them. Mass producing puppies is not something that is confined to a certain breed, many pedigree dogs are being mass produced...the husky is the latest victim as the staffy has been, the dalmation and these small "handbag" breeds. This is something that will be very difficult to stop as there are always fasionable dogs and as such the market for these dogs increase and enable irresponsible people to make a quick buck. Crufts in fact is one source of these "fashion dogs" as the winning breed booms in popularity. Hence the dalmations popularity some years back. I think perhaps if your issue is with irresponsible breeders or mass producing puppies you should stop being narrow minded about a certain breed and look at the bigger picture.


----------



## Dobiegirl (20 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Genetics determine a diverse gene pool leads to fewer health issues, I've never read anyone saying NO health issues but cross breeds or mongrels DO have less inherited health issues, not rocket science. 
Some breeds do not shed hair in the same way as others and are less likely to make some allergies worse. 
Puppy farms sell far more pedigree dogs than they do poodle crosses, with far more inherited Heath problems.You will find far more Staffies/ terriers etc in rescue centres than you will poodle crosses. 
Always best to be factual and rational rather than emotive and biased I find.
		
Click to expand...

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=528902&page=2

Do you remember the above post? you should do you posted on it, if you read it all the way through you will see Labradoodles/Cockerpoos are no more healthy or non allergic than any other dog.


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Genetics determine a diverse gene pool leads to fewer health issues, I've never read anyone saying NO health issues but cross breeds or mongrels DO have less inherited health issues, not rocket science. 
Some breeds do not shed hair in the same way as others and are less likely to make some allergies worse. 
Puppy farms sell far more pedigree dogs than they do poodle crosses, with far more inherited Heath problems.You will find far more Staffies/ terriers etc in rescue centres than you will poodle crosses. 
Always best to be factual and rational rather than emotive and biased I find.
		
Click to expand...

Of course you will find more staffs in rescue, they are the most over bred dogs we have 
You may not had heard folk saying x breed have no health issues! I have!
Again, IT IS not always hair people are allergic too in  regard to dog allergies  and there will be far less shedding than a labrador (mass shedding dog) x poodle, so if folk are indeed allegic to hair a lab x poodle should not be in the top few dogs you choose (but they have a fashionable name) thats is sure to make you sneeze less.
X breeds have no fewer health issues than pedigrees, you get the self and same issues in the badly bred pedigree than you do in the badly bred x from those self and same pedigrees.
I think working where I do and dealing with the sheer amount of dogs I do I would know a few things about dogs


----------



## s4sugar (20 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Genetics determine a diverse gene pool leads to fewer health issues, I've never read anyone saying NO health issues but cross breeds or mongrels DO have less inherited health issues, not rocket science. 
Some breeds do not shed hair in the same way as others and are less likely to make some allergies worse. 
Puppy farms sell far more pedigree dogs than they do poodle crosses, with far more inherited Heath problems.You will find far more Staffies/ terriers etc in rescue centres than you will poodle crosses. 
Always best to be factual and rational rather than emotive and biased I find.
		
Click to expand...

Puppy farms are hardly an example of good breeding are they? These crosses get sold to the gullible who see idiots spouting how wonderful they are and few of there producers pick up the pieces when the dog doesn't fulfil expectations. Hence the numbers in rescues. SBT too are overproduced and again it is not the carefully bred ones that swamp the rescues as good breeders take back their puppies.
Actually we see far more health problems in deliberate cross breeds than in well bred purebreds. Particularly when the breeds crossed share the same problems as poodles & Labradors do.
 Please try to be factual and look for information from the people who are not trying to flog these mixes.


----------



## xxMozlarxx (20 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=528902&page=2

Do you remember the above post? you should do you posted on it, if you read it all the way through you will see Labradoodles/Cockerpoos are no more healthy or non allergic than any other dog.
		
Click to expand...

Did you actually read my post? Do you have one of these dogs? What is your expertise?.


----------



## Dobiegirl (20 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Dear god, if you are an expert dog person you would know alot of cross breeds are infact mostly free of the inherent health problems an awful lot of pedigree dogs suffer with, this is not to say doodles are "immune" from health issues and i dont think any "joe average" person would be stupid enough to promote such rubbish nor believe it. I think this is an over exaggeration on your behalf as for some strange reason you have issues with this breed and therefore believe your views to be fact/right. Id like to point out that stating these dogs are "mass produced" and the breeders "lie through their teeth to sell them" is in fact not entirely true as plenty of these dogs are bred by good families/people with good cruft winning parentage and the breeder need not lie to sell them. Mass producing puppies is not something that is confined to a certain breed, many pedigree dogs are being mass produced...the husky is the latest victim as the staffy has been, the dalmation and these small "handbag" breeds. This is something that will be very difficult to stop as there are always fasionable dogs and as such the market for these dogs increase and enable irresponsible people to make a quick buck. Crufts in fact is one source of these "fashion dogs" as the winning breed booms in popularity. Hence the dalmations popularity some years back. I think perhaps if your issue is with irresponsible breeders or mass producing puppies you should stop being narrow minded about a certain breed and look at the bigger picture. 

Click to expand...

If you cross a Dobe with a Rotti  ie a cross breed and both parents are not health tested they are not healthier than a pedigree health tested dog, gee its no rocket science. To simplfy further any dog not health tested and bred to another  not health tested dog will not be healthier than a pedigree health tested dog.


----------



## IWillIfIWant (20 April 2012)

Dobiegirl if you are going to join the conversation/debate then please have something more to offer then....dont pick on my friend!!!!! I am an experienced dog person and am allowed my own opinion, we dont all have to appease someone to validate ones thought, ideas and opinions.


----------



## Dobiegirl (20 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Did you actually read my post? Do you have one of these dogs? What is your expertise?.
		
Click to expand...

Unlike you who has one of those dogs I have rescue Dobermanns who I have owned as a breed for over 20years but I am not an expert on my breed unlike you on yours.


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Dear god, if you are an expert dog person you would know alot of cross breeds are infact mostly free of the inherent health problems an awful lot of pedigree dogs suffer with, this is not to say doodles are "immune" from health issues and i dont think any "joe average" person would be stupid enough to promote such rubbish nor believe it. I think this is an over exaggeration on your behalf as for some strange reason you have issues with this breed and therefore believe your views to be fact/right. Id like to point out that stating these dogs are "mass produced" and the breeders "lie through their teeth to sell them" is in fact not entirely true as plenty of these dogs are bred by good families/people with good cruft winning parentage and the breeder need not lie to sell them. Mass producing puppies is not something that is confined to a certain breed, many pedigree dogs are being mass produced...the husky is the latest victim as the staffy has been, the dalmation and these small "handbag" breeds. This is something that will be very difficult to stop as there are always fasionable dogs and as such the market for these dogs increase and enable irresponsible people to make a quick buck. Crufts in fact is one source of these "fashion dogs" as the winning breed booms in popularity. Hence the dalmations popularity some years back. I think perhaps if your issue is with irresponsible breeders or mass producing puppies you should stop being narrow minded about a certain breed and look at the bigger picture. 

Click to expand...

Where did I say I was an expert

Are you telling me that a poddle x lab does not suffer horrendous hip and elbow problems??
Or a chi x cavi is not as likely to suffer from luxating patellas and a heart murmur?
Because im damn sure we treat enough cross breeds at work with the self and same issues we see in pedigrees, only part of the time you cannot pin point the x, so it goes unblamed on either pedigree that was put into it.
The rate these designers (not just doodle) are being bred and the reasons for it is going to be far worse than any pedigree fall out issues we ever had.
Erm this is one post, as menioned you have clearly not seen my others, I do not advocate irrisponsible breeding of any dog pedigree or not.


----------



## MurphysMinder (20 April 2012)

From their previous posts I don't think you will find Mozlar looking for much information, he/she clearly has their view and no one, no matter how experienced, will change it.


----------



## xxMozlarxx (20 April 2012)

s4sugar said:



			Puppy farms are hardly an example of good breeding are they? These crosses get sold to the gullible who see idiots spouting how wonderful they are and few of there producers pick up the pieces when the dog doesn't fulfil expectations. Hence the numbers in rescues. SBT too are overproduced and again it is not the carefully bred ones that swamp the rescues as good breeders take back their puppies.
Actually we see far more health problems in deliberate cross breeds than in well bred purebreds. Particularly when the breeds crossed share the same problems as poodles & Labradors do.
 Please try to be factual and look for information from the people who are not trying to flog these mixes.
		
Click to expand...

As a dog owner and breeder of many many years I have no need to 'seek information' from anyone. I'm really not sure what you are alluding to and you probably need to get your facts right, many of these crosses are bred by responsible people with healthy tested animals, as said puppy farms sell far more pedigree dogs than cross breeds.


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Did you actually read my post? Do you have one of these dogs? What is your expertise?.
		
Click to expand...

Does she have 1?? and here is where the problem lies.....having one dog does not qualify people to give an all round (I can tell you all about it, as mine is like all others) you need to see/have experience of a vast number to advise more indepthly, esp when giving advise out in regard to them and the possible purchase other than (it's cuteeeeeeee).


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			As a dog owner and breeder of many many years I have no need to 'seek information' from anyone. I'm really not sure what you are alluding to and you probably need to get your facts right, many of these crosses are bred by responsible people with healthy tested animals, as said puppy farms sell far more pedigree dogs than cross breeds.
		
Click to expand...

Ah....so you must breed designer x's then?


----------



## xxMozlarxx (20 April 2012)

MurphysMinder said:



			From their previous posts I don't think you will find Mozlar looking for much information, he/she clearly has their view and no one, no matter how experienced, will change it.
		
Click to expand...

How odd that you would spend time reading my previous posts, and what a cheap trick to personalise a perfectly reasoned view..and im not the one making offensive sarcastic comments about animals.


----------



## Dobiegirl (20 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Dobiegirl if you are going to join the conversation/debate then please have something more to offer then....dont pick on my friend!!!!! I am an experienced dog person and am allowed my own opinion, we dont all have to appease someone to validate ones thought, ideas and opinions. 

Click to expand...

Cannot believe your attempts to invalidate me, I very much have my own opinions and as for you and your friend, yes funny that how you have suddenly appeared on this forum to back up someone who has challenged this issue before.


----------



## CAYLA (20 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Dobiegirl if you are going to join the conversation/debate then please have something more to offer then....dont pick on my friend!!!!! I am an experienced dog person and am allowed my own opinion, we dont all have to appease someone to validate ones thought, ideas and opinions. 

Click to expand...

I do love this aswell, if someone else wants to joinn in a debate they are accused of being "buddies" of the other person in the debate....I lurveeeee it
DG is also allowed her opinion


----------



## xxMozlarxx (20 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			Ah....so you must breed designer x's then?
		
Click to expand...

No I don't. I don't breed any dogs anymore.
Supposition again


----------



## IWillIfIWant (20 April 2012)

Wow dobiegirl so insightful and informative...i dont see what relevance this has to the conversation mind you... the doodle breed is basically being ripped apart and you are both assuming that if its a doodle its got to have been poorly bred and the parents have not been health tested.....this is not fact its your opinion. There are many staffys out there overbred and from untested parents but not all are.... there are many rotties bred untested but not all are, bulldogs,pugs,LABRADORS....the list goes on but i dont hear you blasting the entire breed and nor should you do this about the doodle.


----------



## xxMozlarxx (21 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			Cannot believe your attempts to invalidate me, I very much have my own opinions and as for you and your friend, yes funny that how you have suddenly appeared on this forum to back up someone who has challenged this issue before.
		
Click to expand...

And you are doing.....what???

And no I don't have a lab poodle cross!


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			How odd that you would spend time reading my previous posts, and what a cheap trick to personalise a perfectly reasoned view..and im not the one making offensive sarcastic comments about animals.
		
Click to expand...


Oh, instead you stalk me and cinnomenOntoast because of a previous post/debate.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			And you are doing.....what???
		
Click to expand...

Probabaly sitting on her puter debating on this post


----------



## IWillIfIWant (21 April 2012)

Lol, yes quite Cayla.... said so well
Think youll find im not quite so new to the h&h forums


----------



## CalllyH (21 April 2012)

Woo ah chill winston. 

Cayla please put scruffy White boy in the post to me immediately. I think he's lush!


----------



## IWillIfIWant (21 April 2012)

Cayla have you really got to the point where you have nothing productive to say, just childish, unitelligent comments about stalking and sitting on puter debating..


----------



## s4sugar (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			As a dog owner and breeder of many many years I have no need to 'seek information' from anyone. I'm really not sure what you are alluding to and you probably need to get your facts right, many of these crosses are bred by responsible people with healthy tested animals, as said puppy farms sell far more pedigree dogs than cross breeds.
		
Click to expand...

Great I will bring this up at the Kennel Club Breed Rescue conference next month.
I have spent the past few months gathering statistics from adverts and from rescues as we ( the rescuers) are all trying to find a way to educate the puppy buying public.
It is widely agreed that the best way to reduce dogs in rescue is to educate the buyers.

 You have just provided an excellent example of the main problem - morons who are sure they know what they are doing and don't need any information but will keep lining the puppy farmers pockets. BTW the general definition of puppy farmer is someone who breeds for sale rather than to better the breed. Numbers produced are irrelevant but " many of these crosses are bred by responsible people with healthy tested animals" and they are breeding to sell = puppy farmers. 
They have found that having a test certificate fools some of the public.
 Last eye testing session I ran we had poodles turn up that were barely recognisable as such - roached backed and clear PL but they sired big litters to poodles & cockers!


----------



## MurphysMinder (21 April 2012)

I read your previous posts because you posted on the same threads as me , what is odd about that. And you just confirmed that you don't need to seek information, which is what I suggested.  Although I have to say i have never met a successful breeder who is not constantly seeking information, as they feel there is always more to learn.


----------



## xxMozlarxx (21 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			Oh, instead you stalk me and cinnomenOntoast because of a previous post/debate.

Click to expand...

Wow..grandiose! That says it all!


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Wow dobiegirl so insightful and informative...i dont see what relevance this has to the conversation mind you... the doodle breed is basically being ripped apart and you are both assuming that if its a doodle its got to have been poorly bred and the parents have not been health tested.....this is not fact its your opinion. There are many staffys out there overbred and from untested parents but not all are.... there are many rotties bred untested but not all are, bulldogs,pugs,LABRADORS....the list goes on but i dont hear you blasting the entire breed and nor should you do this about the doodle.
		
Click to expand...

I this post maybe, we have already discussed and do monthly about the back street breeding of un health tested dogs, and chucking 2 x breeds together for no other reason than fashion and cash "health tests of 2 separate breeds will do what"?? if they are not compatible in size, breed, structure what good will it do, thats why we have over shot monstrocities being bred with bandy legs that can barely breathe or walk and we have enough issues with badly bred pedigrees in this way so whay breed x monstrocities and preten they are/will be healthier

Lets not forget puppy designers are cute lie all other pups when bought till they look like a monster when grown and then rid of, there is no surprise with a pedigree.
Im not against x breeds (I own enough) none bought all rescued, im not one of these who say, im so glad they where back street bred, cos now they are mine" Im saying they should never have been here to start with a discarded like rubbish.


----------



## xxMozlarxx (21 April 2012)

MurphysMinder said:



			I read your previous posts because you posted on the same threads as me , what is odd about that. And you just confirmed that you don't need to seek information, which is what I suggested.  Although I have to say i have never met a successful breeder who is not constantly seeking information, as they feel there is always more to learn.
		
Click to expand...

Of course, in normal circumstances,  but not because I'm directed to in a sarcastic manner as a put down  by someone on here..come on get real.
Fairly odd to go,back and read posts in an attempt at a cheap jibe!


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Wow dobiegirl so insightful and informative...i dont see what relevance this has to the conversation mind you... the doodle breed is basically being ripped apart and you are both assuming that if its a doodle its got to have been poorly bred and the parents have not been health tested.....this is not fact its your opinion. There are many staffys out there overbred and from untested parents but not all are.... there are many rotties bred untested but not all are, bulldogs,pugs,LABRADORS....the list goes on but i dont hear you blasting the entire breed and nor should you do this about the doodle.
		
Click to expand...

I am very much against designer breeds and my definition of them is they are designed to part gullible people from their money.I am also against irresponsible breeders breeding non health tested pedigree dogs.

Years ago people whose pedigree dog mated with another breed of pedigree dog gave the resulting puppies away. Nowadays they are given a designer name and very often sell for more money than a pedigree dog of either breed, why is that do you think?,

Responsible pedigree dog breeders breed to improve the breed which rather precludes the designer dog breeder who dosnt have a breed just a x breed.

I am not against working breeds who are crossed and are used to work.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Did you actually read my post? Do you have one of these dogs? What is your expertise?.
		
Click to expand...


Ah see this is why I assume you where an expert and must breed them you say DG has not expertise and basically no right to comment, yet you own one and have advised someone to buy a one based on cuteness and because they are healthier
 S4S's latest reply I guess sums it all up then.


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

S4Sugars post said it all and I love her previous quote" sold by byb and bought by idiots."


----------



## Cop-Pop (21 April 2012)

Scraggy doodle is cute but more lab pics pleeeeeease


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Of course, in normal circumstances,  but not because I'm directed to in a sarcastic manner as a put down  by someone on here..come on get real.
Fairly odd to go,back and read posts in an attempt at a cheap jibe!
		
Click to expand...

Again if not brandying the "you all buddies the lot of ya" it's "you are putting me down"
I could claim this, but I ain't! im a big girl I can take it without resorting to this
I have basically been branded a dog hater erm yeah....that sums me up, you have got my number clearly


----------



## xxMozlarxx (21 April 2012)

s4sugar said:



			Great I will bring this up at the Kennel Club Breed Rescue conference next month.
I have spent the past few months gathering statistics from adverts and from rescues as we ( the rescuers) are all trying to find a way to educate the puppy buying public.
It is widely agreed that the best way to reduce dogs in rescue is to educate the buyers.

 You have just provided an excellent example of the main problem - morons who are sure they know what they are doing and don't need any information but will keep lining the puppy farmers pockets. BTW the general definition of puppy farmer is someone who breeds for sale rather than to better the breed. Numbers produced are irrelevant but " many of these crosses are bred by responsible people with healthy tested animals" and they are breeding to sell = puppy farmers. 
They have found that having a test certificate fools some of the public.
 Last eye testing session I ran we had poodles turn up that were barely recognisable as such - roached backed and clear PL but they sired big litters to poodles & cockers![/

Sorry but you've lost me now, I and everyone I know owns a healthy dog whatever the breed/type, loves it and cares for it well.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

Cop-Pop said:



			Scraggy doodle is cute but more lab pics pleeeeeease 

Click to expand...

Lol, i will get the rest on.


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Did you actually read my post? Do you have one of these dogs? What is your expertise?.
		
Click to expand...

So what is your expertise?


----------



## MurphysMinder (21 April 2012)

Can't quote as on phone but I did not go back and read your posts Mozlar, they stuck in my memory!


----------



## IWillIfIWant (21 April 2012)

Can i just say one thing................EVERY DAMN RECOGNISED PEDIGREE BREED WILL ORIGINALLY HAVE DERIVED FROM X BREEDING DOGS!!!!!!!!!! The Jack Russel was not recognised as a breed until recently and im sure the doodle, cockerdoo etc etc will one day be a recognised breed. There will be poor examples of the breed as there is in all pedigree animals and there will be fantastic examples as there is in all pedigrees. To say all doodles are monstrosities and bred from unsuitable parents is narrow minded and wrong.... i personally know of doodles that are bred from show stock by professionals and many go on to be Help for the Disabled dogs or much loved, healthy family pets, doing agility, fly ball etc etc. If your issue is with over production and puppy farming etc then you need to not rip to shreds one or two breeds but speak of all breeds subjected to this fate and raise awareness of people who are not so expert and informed as you so clearly are.  Bored of the repetitive comments as it clearly shows you are all missing the point here!!!!


----------



## xxMozlarxx (21 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			So what is your expertise?
		
Click to expand...

Hahaha....you first!


----------



## xxMozlarxx (21 April 2012)

Cop-Pop said:



			Scraggy doodle is cute but more lab pics pleeeeeease 

Click to expand...

Yeah...really cute, grown up and all..


----------



## IWillIfIWant (21 April 2012)

Sorry "Cockerpoo"


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

No one said doodles where monstrosities read back a little, I said there are designer monstrosities being bred and the poor little buggers are discarded of when maturity and full monstrosity is apparent.
You are not understanding either my issue is with irrisponsible breeding across the board, my comments where in regard to that particualr dog, many of my other posts have been in regard to that particular dog.
If I had pictures of the westi with horrendous skin we have in I would maybe have commented about her too.

So it's fine to keep experimenting and creating mass dogs discarding issues in order to get cocker poohs to crufts that will never happen.

I spend my life educating people about dogs (off the forum) in the Real word, rehoming them, helping with their behavioural issues (none of which I bred), im sure I have devoted alot of time to helping people on the forum too, not in regard to answering everything with the word (cute) mind you!
I also spend my life rehoming discarded dogs!


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Yeah...really cute, grown up and all..

Click to expand...


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Hahaha....you first! 

Click to expand...

Well I dont breed not dogs anyway, and Ive owned dogs all my life, not all pedigree but mostly Dobermanns and Lancashire Heelers.

Now your turn.


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Can i just say one thing................EVERY DAMN RECOGNISED PEDIGREE BREED WILL ORIGINALLY HAVE DERIVED FROM X BREEDING DOGS!!!!!!!!!! The Jack Russel was not recognised as a breed until recently and im sure the doodle, cockerdoo etc etc will one day be a recognised breed. There will be poor examples of the breed as there is in all pedigree animals and there will be fantastic examples as there is in all pedigrees. To say all doodles are monstrosities and bred from unsuitable parents is narrow minded and wrong.... i personally know of doodles that are bred from show stock by professionals and many go on to be Help for the Disabled dogs or much loved, healthy family pets, doing agility, fly ball etc etc. If your issue is with over production and puppy farming etc then you need to not rip to shreds one or two breeds but speak of all breeds subjected to this fate and raise awareness of people who are not so expert and informed as you so clearly are.  Bored of the repetitive comments as it clearly shows you are all missing the point here!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Has the Jack Russell breed been recognised as a pedigree dog by the kennel club?

Where does it say that Doodles are monstrosities?


----------



## IWillIfIWant (21 April 2012)

Tell you what Cayla we should all bow down to your expert knowledge and be grateful to have someone of such calibre around. You are the leading expert on this forum and therefore completely right......... 
You feel the need to advertise and justify your greatness and knowledge........why????  I do not feel the need to do this as what i do for the dog world i do out of selflessness not the need to show/tell everyone how fabulous i am and how much i do for dogs and owners.
What is the name of your rescue centre? Would love to look into all it does.


----------



## rhino (21 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			Where does it say that Doodles are monstrosities?
		
Click to expand...

It doesn't. Some people seem to have difficulty in reading for comprehension. 

Funnily enough Mr Conran (their creator) has referred to them publicly as 'Frankenstein' dogs a number of times though.


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

rhino said:



			It doesn't. Some people seem to have difficulty in reading for comprehension. 

Funnily enough Mr Conran (their creator) has referred to them publicly as 'Frankenstein' dogs a number of times though.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you, I thought I was going blind


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Tell you what Cayla we should all bow down to your expert knowledge and be grateful to have someone of such calibre around. You are the leading expert on this forum and therefore completely right......... 
You feel the need to advertise and justify your greatness and knowledge........why????  I do not feel the need to do this as what i do for the dog world i do out of selflessness not the need to show/tell everyone how fabulous i am and how much i do for dogs and owners.
What is the name of your rescue centre? Would love to look into all it does.
		
Click to expand...

Lol, I never said I was an expert (ever) but you keep saying it, you said I should spent more time doing the things I already do, im telling you I do
I rarely speak about rescue or post pics, I just had some uploaded. So I aint the one banging on or getting agressive over a debate/topic whatever it is.
It's not hard to tell what I do, I posted about it My point is I actively help not just recommend the mass buying of cuteness
Nowt great about me, you will certainly get better advice on here than what I can give esp in doggy doing I know nowt or little about, but then Im happy to say that.

I dont advertise on the forum but I can PM you if you would like a doggy


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Tell you what Cayla we should all bow down to your expert knowledge and be grateful to have someone of such calibre around. You are the leading expert on this forum and therefore completely right......... 
You feel the need to advertise and justify your greatness and knowledge........why????  I do not feel the need to do this as what i do for the dog world i do out of selflessness not the need to show/tell everyone how fabulous i am and how much i do for dogs and owners.
What is the name of your rescue centre? Would love to look into all it does.
		
Click to expand...

Wow that sounds like Cayla has p***** you off, why so personal? as I said in an earlier post this was tongue in cheek.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			Wow that sounds like Cayla has p***** you off, why so personal? as I said in an earlier post this was tongue in cheek.
		
Click to expand...

I was ebing nice too, I styed out of alot of debates lately and I was enjoying this one and I thought I was being good


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			Well I dont breed not dogs anyway, and Ive owned dogs all my life, not all pedigree but mostly Dobermanns and Lancashire Heelers.

Now your turn.

Click to expand...

Im still waiting, dont be shy


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			I was ebing nice too, I styed out of alot of debates lately and I was enjoying this one and I thought I was being good

Click to expand...

They are lucky they have caught you on a good night you have been very well behaved and restrained.


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

I expect they are busy pming each other, hence the delay in their posts


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

Just incase you is worried, I will care for that scragy doodle and give her a nice hair cut and relieve her of her sweatyness and sores caused by her mass tats and I will find her a home and home check for her to make sure this one is suitable and offer her back up if the home does not work out.

So don't worry, im not dog hater


----------



## IWillIfIWant (21 April 2012)

Lol, Dobiegirl.............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Cayla sadly it would be selfish of me to take on anymore dogs, horses, cats other waifs and strays otherwise i would gladly have anyone of the dogs pictured but time will not allow it. Only one of me and 24hrs in a day 
Why do you not advertise on here?? Perfect place i would have thought.


----------



## xxMozlarxx (21 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			thats why we have over shot monstrocities being bred with bandy legs that can barely breathe or walk and we have enough issues with badly bred pedigrees in this way so whay breed x monstrocities and preten they are/will be healthier


 discarded like rubbish.
		
Click to expand...

I think that says monstrosities...twice??


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			Im still waiting, dont be shy

Click to expand...

That made me have an excited pee, like in mm's post


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			I think that says monstrosities...twice??
		
Click to expand...

It certainly does but where does it say Labradoodles


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

You havnt replied to my post and questions and zzzzzzzz Im waiting to go to bed for some zzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

If you read back further you will see I also said, "creating bandy legged/over shot and under shot monstrosities" have you ever seen a labradoodle fit this description


----------



## xxMozlarxx (21 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			It certainly does but where does it say Labradoodles

Click to expand...

Ummmm so you weren't talking about crossbreeds??


----------



## IWillIfIWant (21 April 2012)

Then go to bed and stop brown nosing Dobiegirl.... reasonable debate/discussion with Cayla and then you keep popping up making churlish comments or spouting things already said by Cayla or someone else. Its boring me..... You aimed questions at someone else not myself.....


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx Im still waiting for your expertise, I gave you mine and its only fair you give me yours.


----------



## IWillIfIWant (21 April 2012)

Cayla we are discussing the Doodle so not unreasonable to believe the monstrosities you refer to are doodles.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Lol, Dobiegirl.............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Cayla sadly it would be selfish of me to take on anymore dogs, horses, cats other waifs and strays otherwise i would gladly have anyone of the dogs pictured but time will not allow it. Only one of me and 24hrs in a day 
Why do you not advertise on here?? Perfect place i would have thought.
		
Click to expand...

Shame but sensible

I don't advertise because A, not many live near me, most hho are spread all over the country and to be fair we don't rehome 100's of miles away, I have a few mind you but one had to come back and it involved alot of travel only a few days after he went (not his fault) the dog in the household was being mean to him and I thought it's no good. To be fair if a home does not work out I do want the dog back yesterday and do stress a little if I cannot, and a 4 hour jourey kind of hinders.
I feel mean advertising them and then having to say no when people pay interest miles away.

I have rehomed to a few HHO'ers nearer to me though. and like I said back in the day a few very far away.
Also in the terms and conditions im aware I should not advertise though.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Cayla we are discussing the Doodle so not unreasonable to believe the monstrosities you refer to are doodles. 

Click to expand...

Apologies, I did say designer x's in the post though and described bandy legged/under/over shot and breathing issues and purposely did not relate it to doodles


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Then go to bed and stop brown nosing Dobiegirl.... reasonable debate/discussion with Cayla and then you keep popping up making churlish comments or spouting things already said by Cayla or someone else. Its boring me..... You aimed questions at someone else not myself.....
		
Click to expand...

Wow what a nice person you are, you are having a reasonable debate is that what you call it, so Im boring you am I, not half as much as you are me, you are spouting rubbish and Im still waiting for you to verify Jack Russells as registered with the kennel club.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Ummmm so you weren't talking about crossbreeds??
		
Click to expand...


Yep, designer x breeds.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

Yep, lets not get personal people, thats why there are debates in here and it gets out of hand and bitchy is brandied about, me possibly included way back when
DG has the right to comment as anyone and she does being alot of sense to the forum and give great advice (says whilst licking DG crack) the back one by the way

I respect all views as "yours views" but mine are correct

lmfao (jokeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee) but true.

Many a debate has changed my mind you know.....I may yet start breeding doodles.




















 yeah right


----------



## xxMozlarxx (21 April 2012)

Sorry Dobiegirl, just I don't understand what your input is..Cayla helps with dog rescue, I understand that,  and I actually do Of course understand some of what her concerns are about overbreeding indiscriminately, just think it very unfair to tar all with the same brush or to use insulting terms like morons and idiots..but I don't get where you are at all.
Cayla..your opening of this post was personal...you know it was! There were many points well put as it happens..


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Sorry Dobiegirl, just I don't understand what your input is..Cayla helps with dog rescue, I understand that,  and I actually do understand some of what her concerns are about overbreeding indiscriminately, just think it very unfair to tar all with the same brush or to use insulting terms like morons and idiots..but I don't get where you are at all.
		
Click to expand...

Rescue or no rescue though, everyone is passionate and frustrated about the state we are in with back street breeding.
DG recently lobbied (sp) alot of major charities about (selling free dogs) she spent weeks on this and nearly drove herself insaine. I never did it, I should have
It was not DG who used insulting terms though, she just like them

It's me copying DG man.......im taking bits from her posts and making it looks like mine

^^^^^^^^^about selling free dogs (FPMSL) that was meant to say (giving away free dogs) Im so giddy it's unreal, TENA lady!!


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

Cayla and Im not brown nosing what this debate lacks is a sense of humour, I can laugh at it and Im sure you can but others cant.

My favourite quote never argue with stupid people they will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.

Mark Twain.


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Sorry Dobiegirl, just I don't understand what your input is..Cayla helps with dog rescue, I understand that,  and I actually do Of course understand some of what her concerns are about overbreeding indiscriminately, just think it very unfair to tar all with the same brush or to use insulting terms like morons and idiots..but I don't get where you are at all.
Cayla..your opening of this post was personal...you know it was! There were many points well put as it happens..
		
Click to expand...

Because Im not involved with rescue does that mean Im not allowed an opinion? what is your problem? this is an open forum and Im still waiting to hear what your expertise is.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			Because Im not involved with rescue does that mean Im not allowed an opinion? what is your problem? this is an open forum and Im still waiting to hear what your expertise is.
		
Click to expand...


Mozlar, to be fair and I will adimit when i am being personal, it shows it was tongue in cheek like alot of posts we have had on here not just me, about sloapy back cripples (caveys) GSD's, cos only she owns the crippled variety and you will find many a post from me about x breeds/pedigree's/ignorant people etc. some serious some in jest. You will fins my breeding x breeds post in the form of knitted animals lol.
Who do you think it was personal towards and would they read it? are they on this forum?
I am not and never claim to be an expert, I have experience (I cannot deal with this many dogs and not) but it does seem to get thrown my way when folk are peeved with the debate/topic/convo.
Other people on here are involved with rescue and helping people with their dogs issues or working with rescue dogs behaviour, it aint just me.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

CalllyH said:



			Woo ah chill winston. 

Cayla please put scruffy White boy in the post to me immediately. I think he's lush!
		
Click to expand...

Lol...needs a good shave and bath first


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Lol, yes quite Cayla.... said so well
Think youll find im not quite so new to the h&h forums 

Click to expand...

Ah ha, I knew it I think you are inlove with me really. admit it


----------



## EAST KENT (21 April 2012)

Finished now? I actually think both of `em are trolls and are really  just one pesky person. Possibly even CPT at it again.


----------



## Cedars (21 April 2012)

Cayla, do me a favour and promise me you'll never rehome to idiots with manners like this...... 

Can I have the lab please? Thanks! X


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

EAST KENT said:



			Finished now? I actually think both of `em are trolls and are really  just one pesky person. Possibly even CPT at it again.

Click to expand...

Well that was certainly a marathon they were definately trolls,could have been one person and as for their identity there are several in the frame I think.


----------



## MurphysMinder (21 April 2012)

Have to admire your stamina dg, I gave up and went to bed .  Think you are prob both right with the troll theory!


----------



## Cinnamontoast (21 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			How odd that you would spend time reading my previous posts
		
Click to expand...

As you did? Went on my profile, resurrected a thread on docking and tried to get me flamed for buying a docked puppy, even though I to him way before the ban and he is from working stock anyway? Hmm. Pot, kettle? 



CAYLA said:



			Oh, instead you stalk me and cinnomenOntoast because of a previous post/debate.

Click to expand...

Thought I was getting paranoid, clearly not. 



xxMozlarxx said:



			Fairly odd to go,back and read posts in an attempt at a cheap jibe!
		
Click to expand...

*Cough cough* And again!

Can't believe I missed this last night. I could've had popcorn and everything! 

Ultimately, all dogs are fab, but the key is their health and ensuring only parents that are health tested are used. This is sadly not the case  with the BYBs who charge silly money for pups which have been churned out with no thought other than finance.


----------



## MurphysMinder (21 April 2012)

I had noticed that Mozlar seems to be a fan of yours Ct


----------



## CorvusCorax (21 April 2012)

Christ, that's ten minutes of my life I will never get back....


----------



## Emilieu (21 April 2012)

*runs back to New Lounge with tail between legs... 
Very informative for a newbie, thanks!


----------



## EAST KENT (21 April 2012)

Have they/it  REALLY gone?


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

EAST KENT said:



			Have they/it  REALLY gone?

Click to expand...

They are lightweights, I was up bright and early as usual I expect they are sleeping in.


----------



## Blanche (21 April 2012)

Mozlar and IWILLIFIWANT  what the fug are you on , just want to make sure I don't take it cos it brings on brain melt and thats not pretty on anyone .


----------



## numptynoelle (21 April 2012)

My word!

I have a small thing to add about hybrid vigour i.e. heterosis (from a Wikipedia article, for shame ) 

"Heterosis is the opposite of inbreeding depression. Inbreeding depression leads to offspring with deleterious traits due to homozygosity. *The term heterosis often causes controversy, particularly in selective breeding of domestic animals, because it is sometimes claimed that all crossbred plants and animals are genetically superior to their parents. This is untrue, as only some hybrids are genetically superior.* The inverse of heterosis, when a hybrid inherits traits from its parents that are not fully compatible, with deleterious results, is outbreeding depression."

OBVIOUSLY Wikipedia is not an accredited source of information, but without drowning you in academic journals (not all open source, so limited availability yadda yadda) I think it's an acceptable description. 

Full link here if interested


----------



## Cinnamontoast (21 April 2012)

MurphysMinder said:



			I had noticed that Mozlar seems to be a fan of yours Ct

Click to expand...

I know, I feel special, in fact one might even say _cherished_. Makes me all warm inside. *Sob* 

I might start one of those 'Am I too big for my massive cob, I weigh 30 stone' threads in NL just to see if I can spread the love a bit.


----------



## IWillIfIWant (21 April 2012)

Wow what lovely people. I merely dont agree that these dogs are all badly bred and i dont think slating the breed is a good way of promoting your views. There are badly bred dogs in all walks of life....pedigree and x breeds. This is not just a problem in one breed in one animal, its in all. I know, i have many animals that were abandoned with issues resulting from ill health, ill breeding or just abuse...from horses to budgies. I also personally know of doodles being bred from cruft winning parents(the poodle father is just insanely beautiful) and are being produced to help our disabled,deaf and blind with a few going into private homes. Not all these dogs are bad and it saddens me that this thread is slating a dog that i see doing so much for our society.


----------



## IWillIfIWant (21 April 2012)

Ps, not lying in sadly! Chance would be a fine thing  Just finished the morning rounds with my animals


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Wow what lovely people. I merely dont agree that these dogs are all badly bred and i dont think slating the breed is a good way of promoting your views. There are badly bred dogs in all walks of life....pedigree and x breeds. This is not just a problem in one breed in one animal, its in all. I know, i have many animals that were abandoned with issues resulting from ill health, ill breeding or just abuse...from horses to budgies. I also personally know of doodles being bred from cruft winning parents(the poodle father is just insanely beautiful) and are being produced to help our disabled,deaf and blind with a few going into private homes. Not all these dogs are bad and it saddens me that this thread is slating a dog that i see doing so much for our society.
		
Click to expand...

Well last night you and your friend were not lovely people, just very rude people and we have you rumbled.


----------



## Vizslak (21 April 2012)

Wow, that took some reading, I'm not sure I can even be bothered to grace the morons with any further replies.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Wow what lovely people. I merely dont agree that these dogs are all badly bred and i dont think slating the breed is a good way of promoting your views. There are badly bred dogs in all walks of life....pedigree and x breeds. This is not just a problem in one breed in one animal, its in all. I know, i have many animals that were abandoned with issues resulting from ill health, ill breeding or just abuse...from horses to budgies. I also personally know of doodles being bred from cruft winning parents(the poodle father is just insanely beautiful) and are being produced to help our disabled,deaf and blind with a few going into private homes. Not all these dogs are bad and it saddens me that this thread is slating a dog that i see doing so much for our society.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair their was some rudeness but I personally did not think it came from the "against back street breeding lobiests"
These dogs are vastly overly badly bred, it's not the actual dog we/i am slating, the dog cannot help being here, I am slating those selling them with a false pretence and then those who bought them then passing that on to others.
These dogs are not mass bred for the disabled/special cause, a select few will be no doubt as intended, but the vaster majority have been as the producer said turned into a puppy farmers dream. they have been bred for no other cause that "making cash".
The problem I have and what this post is about comes with the faulcity of them being healthier/great for allergies/better bred than a lab or poodle (even health tested ones) and who is suffering ultimately!
There are badly bred dogs (no one has said there is not) and past posts will prove that, this post was about the doodle, designer x breeds)...well it was actually about rescue pictures 
I find it very hard to take any breeder who has the best interests of their breed at heart who participates in crufts breeding designer x breeds from their well bred show dogs, unless of course their chosen breed bring little cash to the table and crossing them does if it's a programme for special needs then why are some going to (private homes) if indeed so many are supposedly bred for special needs programmes
Plenty of other breeds fit these programmes without using designer x's as an excuse to fill this supposed void.

We do indeed have a huge problem with over breeding in a mass irrisponsable way, so is then defending and encouraging the breeding of more the answer?


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

CaveCanem said:



			Christ, that's ten minutes of my life I will never get back....
		
Click to expand...


Ah, but your learnt so much and now I just know you are off to buy a doodle


----------



## ChesnutsRoasting (21 April 2012)

Look, this is very entertaining etc,etc, but can somebody please tell what the hell is the point of breeding a Doodle?  I would appreciate a definitive answer.

CAYLA - love the pic of the lurchers snuggling on the sofa, they are like parasites nicking bodily warmth from each other!

Oh and keep up the good work.


----------



## ChesnutsRoasting (21 April 2012)

Mozlar, read this and weep.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/nov/13/inventors-idea-regret

From the man whose great idea it was to deliberately breed Doodles.


----------



## Maisie2 (21 April 2012)

OMG this has turned into War and Peace, where's Prince Andrei when you need him   Cayla you do a wonderful job and def. don't need all this flak, if everyone on this forum did as much for stray dogs we would all be a lot happier.   Perhaps we have to refer to you now as St. Cayla   Btw if I didn't have Harley with the legs of a Queen Anne chair and and matching temperament I would be asking you for the dreaded Doodle   I have to say he looks pretty cute - I will now go hide behind sofa


----------



## MurphysMinder (21 April 2012)

I put a similar link on one of the other threads, don't think they have commented on it yet.


----------



## Jake10 (21 April 2012)

It's all very well saying that both the parents of first generation crosses are health tested but the results will not provide an accurate reference to the future health of the puppies (if the puppies were pedigree the test results would be more accurate). 

If you want to state that the puppies generated by this cross were healthier than pedigrees you would most likely need to health test all the puppies in the litter. Preferably using all the health tests recommended for each of the parent breeds. Of course this would be expensive and require the breeder to keep the puppies until they were old enough to be tested. You would need to repeat this over several litters etc so they puppies would no longer be small, cute etc

Lets face it no crossbreed should cost £600 unless they pooped rainbows or money  Do Labrador x Poodles (refuse to use the fashion accessory name) poop rainbows or money? Are the guaranteed to be better for allergy sufferers than a pedigree poodle, wire fox terrier or any other breed with a similar low/non shedding coat? No they are not.

CAYLA - I love the pic of the dogs in front of the fire. That's exactly where mine are now


----------



## rhino (21 April 2012)

numptynoelle said:



 My word!

I have a small thing to add about hybrid vigour i.e. heterosis (from a Wikipedia article, for shame ) 
Full link here if interested
		
Click to expand...

Actually to be pedantic a hybrid is a cross between two _species_, not two _breeds_ of the same species...  One of those words that is commonly misused.



Jake10 said:



			It's all very well saying that both the parents of first generation crosses are health tested but the results will not provide an accurate reference to the future health of the puppies (if the puppies were pedigree the test results would be more accurate).
		
Click to expand...

There's more to it than that too. Not only are the offspring of a 'hybrid' cross (using the term as it has been applied in this thread) as likely to inherit any condition predisposed to by the parents, but the crossing itself can lead to 'new' genetic conditions coming to light.

Veterinary Record doi:10.1136/vr.100361

Survey of ophthalmic abnormalities in the labradoodle in the UK

J. A. C. Oliver, BVSc, CertVOphthal, DipECVO, MRCVS and D. J. Gould, BVMS, PhD, DVOphthal, DipECVO, MRCVS

Showed that not only do labradoodles have the _same_ high level of cataracts as labradors, but they have a vastly increased risk of Multifocal Retinal Dysplasia than either parent breed. 

By not understanding heterosis it's at least as easy to breed in problems as breed them out.


----------



## CorvusCorax (21 April 2012)

I love the theory that if you are a dog lover you will never criticise any dog, ever.

Well here goes, I have a GSD that is bred in the purple, he has his pink papers from Germany, which are full of world champion show dogs, all health tested and working qualified.

His hips and elbows, for which his many relatives were tested, are fine but his back is wrecked (partly due to injury) and he is full of allergies and sensitivities and his character is not what I like in a German Shepherd. 
He is also far too tall and over angulated behind. Yes, I love my dog but I can look at him and see his faults, they've cost me and him enough in more ways than one.
He was responsibly (although perhaps in hindsight, not wisely) bred, sold for a huge loss.

However - I am in constant contact with his breeder and none of the litter or the mother are being bred from again. None have his issues apart from a bit of insecurity/knarliness with other dogs.
I can look at his pedigree having researched it and say 'well, I now know that this dog and that dog in a pedigree can lead to skin issues...I will never choose from that combination of lines again'.
You can't do that when a crossbreed or unknown breed becomes ill or is a condition-carrier and the problem perpetuates.

As pointed out by the science people  and the founder of the 'breed' (yeah, like, what would he know...), you breed unknown to unknown without health testing, it doesn't matter whether it is pedigree or not, you don't know what you are going to get and promising the earth, the moon and the stars to unknowlegeable buyers for a high price tag with no comeback is wrong, sorry.


----------



## dingle12 (21 April 2012)

Wow im going to have to start and come on the forum more often. There are alot of no it all's about lately.


----------



## galaxy (21 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			Tell you what Cayla we should all bow down to your expert knowledge and be grateful to have someone of such calibre around. You are the leading expert on this forum and therefore completely right......... 
You feel the need to advertise and justify your greatness and knowledge........why????  I do not feel the need to do this as what i do for the dog world i do out of selflessness not the need to show/tell everyone how fabulous i am and how much i do for dogs and owners.
		
Click to expand...

I take GREAT humbridge to this post!

Cayla is held with great respect around AAD for very good reason.  She freely imparts any advise to ANYONE who asks for it on here.  She has never put anyone down for daft questions or when they are making obvious mistakes with their dog.  She hands out puppy guides to anyone who asks for one which many many people have said have been an enormous help when bringing up their puppy.  Not only that, but to me personally (and I have no doubt countless others) she has received personal pms with dog training problems and then following emails which she spends a lot of time answering and following up.  I have done this and her advise has always been spot on and well thought out.  She has no reason to do this to absolute strangers other than for the love of dogs!  Others on the forums have also driven to the opposite end of the country because they could only trust Cayla to look after their dog when they go on holiday.

So you feel we're all creeping up her backside?  No!  There is great reason and history why people respect her so much.

you don't have to agree with her or anyone elses opinion.  But there is no need to be personal and rude.


(and now galaxy gets off her soap box and quietly goes back into the corner where she normally sits!)


----------



## CorvusCorax (21 April 2012)

LIKE ^^^^


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

galaxy said:



			I take GREAT humbridge to this post!

Cayla is held with great respect around AAD for very good reason.  She freely imparts any advise to ANYONE who asks for it on here.  She has never put anyone down for daft questions or when they are making obvious mistakes with their dog.  She hands out puppy guides to anyone who asks for one which many many people have said have been an enormous help when bringing up their puppy.  Not only that, but to me personally (and I have no doubt countless others) she has received personal pms with dog training problems and then following emails which she spends a lot of time answering and following up.  I have done this and her advise has always been spot on and well thought out.  She has no reason to do this to absolute strangers other than for the love of dogs!  Others on the forums have also driven to the opposite end of the country because they could only trust Cayla to look after their dog when they go on holiday.

So you feel we're all creeping up her backside?  No!  There is great reason and history why people respect her so much.

you don't have to agree with her or anyone elses opinion.  But there is no need to be personal and rude.


(and now galaxy gets off her soap box and quietly goes back into the corner where she normally sits!)
		
Click to expand...

Welcome to the brown nose club.


----------



## MurphysMinder (21 April 2012)

Well said Galaxy!  Cayla has a huge amount of experience and having recently seen her puppy training guide I can say it is excellent and I will be handing one out with every puppy that goes to its new home from my current litter.  I am by no means a novice owner but if I had a doggy problem I was struggling with I would definitely ask Cayla for advice.


----------



## MurphysMinder (21 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			Welcome to the brown nose club.

Click to expand...

We could form a new clique


----------



## Dobiegirl (21 April 2012)

MM what a wonderful idea I would be proud to be a member.


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

galaxy said:



			I take GREAT humbridge to this post!

Cayla is held with great respect around AAD for very good reason.  She freely imparts any advise to ANYONE who asks for it on here.  She has never put anyone down for daft questions or when they are making obvious mistakes with their dog.  She hands out puppy guides to anyone who asks for one which many many people have said have been an enormous help when bringing up their puppy.  Not only that, but to me personally (and I have no doubt countless others) she has received personal pms with dog training problems and then following emails which she spends a lot of time answering and following up.  I have done this and her advise has always been spot on and well thought out.  She has no reason to do this to absolute strangers other than for the love of dogs!  Others on the forums have also driven to the opposite end of the country because they could only trust Cayla to look after their dog when they go on holiday.

So you feel we're all creeping up her backside?  No!  There is great reason and history why people respect her so much.

you don't have to agree with her or anyone elses opinion.  But there is no need to be personal and rude.


(and now galaxy gets off her soap box and quietly goes back into the corner where she normally sits!)
		
Click to expand...


 I don't know what to say to that Galaxy, thankyou, I will help where I can but I would never want to be seeing as the "leading expert" of a forum as was suggested (erm it's just doggy forum) that is all and there is some fabulous advice given out on here and I have picked up a few tips here and there it's just seems it's a way to "have a dig" in a topic (shame it leads to that) I even tried having a laugh to lighten the mood (I laughed anyways, i pished me sell near enough)

No cliques ladys' but I expect you to all wear t shirts in worship of me
Dingle12....more hoodies!

Dare I post some more piccies for you's


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

Dobiegirl said:



			MM what a wonderful idea I would be proud to be a member.
		
Click to expand...


Erm....behave the pair of you, is this pay back time or summit


----------



## galaxy (21 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



 I don't know what to say to that Galaxy, thankyou, I will help where I can but I would never want to be seeing as the "leading expert" of a forum as was suggested (erm it's just doggy forum) that is all and there is some fabulous advice given out on here and I have picked up a few tips here and there it's just seems it's a way to "have a dig" in a topic (shame it leads to that) I even tried having a laugh to lighten the mood (I laughed anyways, i pished me sell near enough)

No cliques ladys' but I expect you to all wear t shirts in worship of me
Dingle12....more hoodies!

Dare I post some more piccies for you's

Click to expand...

Sorry if I made you blush!


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

galaxy said:



			Sorry if I made you blush!   

Click to expand...


You did, and I got a lump in my throat


----------



## Blanche (21 April 2012)

Can I join the brown nosers club as I think Cayla is mucking fagic and I'll have a new fleece!


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

Blanche said:



			Can I join the brown nosers club as I think Cayla is mucking fagic and I'll have a new fleece!
		
Click to expand...

I love your way of getting round those swear words, as I have tourettes and struggle on here to contain me self, I may have to remember your substitutes


----------



## galaxy (21 April 2012)

CAYLA said:



			You did, and I got a lump in my throat

Click to expand...

ahh you softie!!  I'm not that sorry then!!  ha ha!


----------



## CAYLA (21 April 2012)

Grass_Proof said:



			Blimey who is the troll?  Surely we ALL love Cayla on here 

Click to expand...


----------



## mollichop (21 April 2012)

Sorry to tag onto the end of this - but well said Galaxy - no one is (deliberately) brown nosing Cayla but, she offers something on here thT nobody else does. 

Many posters on here offer diverse advice and help on this section of the forum but all with the sole intention of the good of the dog from what I've experienced - and that can only be a good thing surely?


----------



## dingle12 (21 April 2012)

Thats it give me more bloody stress  Cayla drives me mad the best of times.

In all seriousness even though i get a headache every time i talk to C or attempt a conversation via pm ( takes me ages to read it as i have to translate  ) i class Cayla as a good friend and she has always been there for me even though she wont take my little sod !!!

So trolls please back off and go back in your hole.


----------



## Cinnamontoast (21 April 2012)

dingle12 said:



			In all seriousness even though i get a headache every time i talk to C or attempt a conversation via pm ( takes me ages to read it as i have to translate 

Click to expand...

This is because she is northern! Fortunately, I too am northern so I can understand all the 'mesell' comments. * Feels smug*

I too have been known to go all Cheryl Cole when excited!


----------



## CAYLA (22 April 2012)

dingle12 said:



			Thats it give me more bloody stress  Cayla drives me mad the best of times.

In all seriousness even though i get a headache every time i talk to C or attempt a conversation via pm ( takes me ages to read it as i have to translate  ) i class Cayla as a good friend and she has always been there for me even though she wont take my little sod !!!

So trolls please back off and go back in your hole.
		
Click to expand...

I do admit, you do put up with alot and certainly deserve the right to strangle me...you have the patients of a saint


----------



## CAYLA (22 April 2012)

cinnamontoast said:



			This is because she is northern! Fortunately, I too am northern so I can understand all the 'mesell' comments. * Feels smug*

I too have been known to go all Cheryl Cole when excited!
		
Click to expand...

 too funny....


----------



## CAYLA (22 April 2012)

mollichop said:



			Sorry to tag onto the end of this - but well said Galaxy - no one is (deliberately) brown nosing Cayla but, she offers something on here thT nobody else does. 

Many posters on here offer diverse advice and help on this section of the forum but all with the sole intention of the good of the dog from what I've experienced - and that can only be a good thing surely?
		
Click to expand...

I should string this out really whilst I can...you lot will be wanting to throttle me again soon, you know you will. It must be the new calmer cayla that does it.
It's the counselling you see it's working


----------



## Vizslak (22 April 2012)

Not wishing to be a brown noser, I cant stand that Cayla one, who does she think she is with her rescue dogs and her knowledge and her northern accent sounding like cheryl cole and her typos all over the shop. How very dare she try and help others by offering free advice on an internet forum.....no really, its bloomin disgusting, I just cant stand helpful people with real knowledge, worst type of person IMO. 






Dont forget my crate training guides please Cayla


----------



## Elle123 (22 April 2012)

Here here Galaxy! Some of those posts were making my blood boil!


----------



## CAYLA (22 April 2012)

Vizslak said:



			Not wishing to be a brown noser, I cant stand that Cayla one, who does she think she is with her rescue dogs and her knowledge and her northern accent sounding like cheryl cole and her typos all over the shop. How very dare she try and help others by offering free advice on an internet forum.....no really, its bloomin disgusting, I just cant stand helpful people with real knowledge, worst type of person IMO. 






Dont forget my crate training guides please Cayla  

Click to expand...

You bedda get in the "brown nose queue" if you want those guides!


----------



## Cinnamontoast (22 April 2012)

Vizslak said:



			How very dare she try and help others by offering free advice on an internet forum.....no really, its bloomin disgusting, I just cant stand helpful people with real knowledge, worst type of person IMO.
		
Click to expand...

I know  and she sounds all funny as well! Weirdo!


----------



## dingle12 (22 April 2012)

cinnamontoast said:



			This is because she is northern! Fortunately, I too am northern so I can understand all the 'mesell' comments. * Feels smug*

I too have been known to go all Cheryl Cole when excited!
		
Click to expand...


Best thing is my hubby is from sunderland and he struggles to understand her


----------



## CAYLA (22 April 2012)

dingle12 said:



			Best thing is my hubby is from sunderland and he struggles to understand her 

Click to expand...

Erm girls...."this is about worship" not bloody picking on me

Get back to worship please

I DON'T SOUND FUNNY!!! (ha way man pet) for instance does not come from my gob!


----------



## dingle12 (22 April 2012)

Sorry i will bow down to u from now on  as long as u never say

" send me ur email again "


----------



## Cinnamontoast (22 April 2012)

dingle12 said:



			Best thing is my hubby is from sunderland and he struggles to understand her 

Click to expand...

My gran was from Sunderland and she said words funny, me and mam were saying today that she said schooooool and boooook, really weird!


----------



## dingle12 (22 April 2012)

cinnamontoast said:



			My gran was from Sunderland and she said words funny, me and mam were saying today that she said schooooool and boooook, really weird!
		
Click to expand...

Yep thats right , and he says mam man lol i just say mum everything he says has man at the end even the dogs answer to some of the odd things he says  its funny because im used to his family now but if we go back up north or he talks to friends that are geordies he turns really geordie on me.


----------



## IWillIfIWant (22 April 2012)

Cayla id just like to point out that being bred for a programme does not instantly mean the dog will be of suitable character for the job it was bred for. Not all dogs bred to become sniffer dogs by the police will actually become a sniffer dog as it takes more than just breeding for this cause for them to become said sniffer dog. But then im sure you realise this and hence would realise that indeed some do end up in private homes!! And the reason the programme was started was due to there low shedding coat being helpful to asmatics and people with allergies. One young disabled girl has allergies and reacts to the short haired coat of the lab but has managed just fine with her doodle so have to say the proof is in the pudding with this girl. 
 I have no arguement at all with being AGAINST the indescriminant breeding, over breeding for monetry gains, puppy farming or idiots who sell animals by bullshitting. The same goes for me being against indescriminant, over breeding etc of ANY animal so we are on the same page with that.......i am not an idiot or moron and i also have a household/land full of animals that are abandoned,rescued,abused and have come to me for a better life and thats what they get, they are my life.


----------



## Cinnamontoast (22 April 2012)

dingle12 said:



			Yep thats right , and he says mam man lol i just say mum everything he says has man at the end even the dogs answer to some of the odd things he says  its funny because im used to his family now but if we go back up north or he talks to friends that are geordies he turns really geordie on me.
		
Click to expand...

Dear Lord, woman, don't call him Geordie! If he's a Sunderland boy, he is a Maccum and will be most insulted to be called Geordie!


----------



## Cinnamontoast (22 April 2012)

IWillIfIWant said:



			One young disabled girl has allergies and reacts to the short haired coat of the lab but has managed just fine with her doodle so have to say the proof is in the pudding with this girl.
		
Click to expand...

But the point, surely, is that not all such crosses will be non allergenic? Is that what you meant about breeding programmes? 

Many BYBs are touting their litters as all allergy free, but as Conran discovered, only 3/11 of his first litter were. For people to be raving on about how all doodles are low shedding, non-allergenic is tosh. To then sell them for more than a health tested, excellent pedigree because of this is ridiculous.

This is what riles people on here, particularly when rather than exploding the myth, some choose to perpetrate it on a public forum because they are determined they are right. It's infuriating.


----------

