# horse just bolted 5 miles down the road



## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

im sitting here shaking and crying just had a horrible experience.

Picked up a new horse yesterday - 7yo but green, direct from the breeder. He had been ridden on their yard but not hacked much and basically found out he has big gaps in his education - not had rug on, not been tied up. Turned him out next to another horse yesterday and he seemed fine. Today i turned him out with a buddy and when i went to switch fields with another horse and moved him next to another horse he went crazy. went through the post+electric, then over/through 2 lots of post and rail and then onto the road. i was chasing him to no avail but someone stopped in the car and we followed him in the car. he was heading towards the main road so i called the police to alert them. we tried getting in front of him, and stopped the car across the road a few times, but he ran me down. just before the main road i made a divebomb bu missed and he kicked my in the knee. somehow and i really dont know how he went straight across the main road without getting collected by a truck. about a mile from thew a41 he finally slowed to a trot , we managed to get past him and another divebomb meant i got him. some lovely horsey people stopped and i put him in a stable there ans got my lorry and went to collect him. hes soaked, sweating but stopped blowing and ive shut him in a stable for now.

The breeder is adamant that they wont take him back because of diseases he might have from being on my yard. All my horses compete so theyre all UTD on all jabs. theyre all in excellent condition. 

I knew i was taking on a green horse, but i was not expecting a horse that is 7 and backed to be this unhandleable. ive never had to deal with this situation before, and i have had green horses before. If my fencing cant hold him, nothing will . Im left with a big fencing bill, a horse that is dangerous ( he also kicked my dog yesterday ) the breeder is simply not interested, the horse is a danger to himself and others and i couldnt pass him on to someone so im facing having him PTS. IM in tears, my leg is killing me, the breeders attitude is simply making me angry, im sorry for the horse because hes sweet as really, its not his fault hes just scared. 

can i have a cup of tea please? and some peas for my knee.


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## suestowford (11 November 2013)

How frightening for you, and an injury to add to it. I will offer you not only ice for your knee but some virtual cake as well.

Not sure what to suggest really, but I bet someone will be along with some sensible advice.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

just messages the breeder ( phone smashed so cant call them ) theyve reiterated they wont have him back.


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## Mrs C (11 November 2013)

I don't really know what to say but don't want to read and run. Can't offer any advice but I hope you're ok and that must have been a v scary experience xx


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

im still shaking and crying and in immense pain from my knee but have had to go back to work  this all happened on my lunch hour


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## MerrySherryRider (11 November 2013)

Sorry you've had such a shock. You must be pretty shaken up. 

Ok, don't panic yet. Poor horse is very frightened, now you know what a vunerable chap he is at the moment, you can gear your management to help him settle. 
Don't pass judgement on him yet.


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## Orangehorse (11 November 2013)

Have you any sort of advert, or any witness to the sale and what they said when you saw him?  Ring the BHS helpline and ask for advice, also any of the horse solicitors that advertise in H & H.  There is also Trading Standards.

In your place I would be taking him back!


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Between him kicking the dog, me and getting through all my fencing, i cant turn him out and hes dangerous in th state he is in at the moment. i dont have the time to deal with an unhandled horse. i thought the basics had been done, didnt find out till after i handed money over the extent of the gaps.  going through the breeders facebook i find references to bolting horses so think hes done this before.


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## Flame_ (11 November 2013)

You could take him back to the breeders, unload him and take him back up to their horses, then the diseases excuse is void but you'd still have a fight to get your money back.

If you don't want that fight and want to avoid pts, if you can afford to, could you send him for some intensive training/ handling acceptance with a professional?


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## Abacus (11 November 2013)

You poor love. That's horrible, and well done for being so immensely brave and keeping on chasing. There are positives in this - you got him back and no one was hurt (except you) - I mean, of course, badly. 

Do you really have to sit at work? Sounds like you need to go and curl up with some sweet tea and cry it out.

Otherwise, I agree with horserider - poor chap panicked, sure, and as he didn't know where he was, he kept running. This is a panic reaction and not necessarily one that indicates terrible, unsolvable manners. If he has been in the same place 7 years (and never anywhere else) it was to be expected that he would be hard to settle at first.  

How to handle it now? - well that, I don't know. Shutting him up is a start - I'd be tempted to keep him there and spend time with him, before putting him out in the safest field you have. preferably with a little companion, both while he is in and then out. Could you do this? 

Also, what was his previous routine and can you mimic it as much as possible to help him understand what is expected of him?


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Orangehorse said:



			Have you any sort of advert, or any witness to the sale and what they said when you saw him?  Ring the BHS helpline and ask for advice, also any of the horse solicitors that advertise in H & H.  There is also Trading Standards.

In your place I would be taking him back!
		
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yes ive had witnesses - as they are a breeder i dont know where i stand in terms of the law. hes a low value horse ( i paid 1050 for him ) and i would like that money back but its not the point, i want him to go back to them so they can work with him, hes not a horse that should have been offered for sale, imho.  i have informed the breeder i will have to PTS if they wont take him back, they dont seem to give ***** about his welfare. they shouldnt have sold him in this state.


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## Baileybones (11 November 2013)

I would agree don't make any rash decisions just yet. Horrendous experience for both of you and you have every right to be feeling as you do. Sounds as if this chap has lived life in a bit of a bubble for the last 7yrs and has had minimal exposure to everyday life. Breeders attitude bothers me and makes me think they were pleased to see him leave and also hugely irresponsible for not better educating this horse. 
Get your knee looked at by a Dr and make arrangements needed to collect horse and then take him "home" and stable him quietly whilst you collect your thoughts and decide rationally what to do. 

Not suggesting you do one thing or another but no good will come of making a panic decision whilst your system is still coursing with adrenalin. 

Good luck and hope things sort out for you both x


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## Meowy Catkin (11 November 2013)

That is such a frightening thing to happen, I'm so glad that you caught him in the end and I hope your knee is feeling better soon.

Was this the first time he was fenced with electric fencing? 
Do you think that it was going through that fence (and being zapped), that then set him off in a blind panic? 
If he was upset by you moving the horses into different paddocks, could you bring him in, shift the horses and then turn him out again? 
Could he have a paddock with no electric fence?

ETA - having read the new posts, I think that ringing the BHS helpline would be good.


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## poiuytrewq (11 November 2013)

Orangehorse said:



			Have you any sort of advert, or any witness to the sale and what they said when you saw him?  Ring the BHS helpline and ask for advice, also any of the horse solicitors that advertise in H & H.  There is also Trading Standards.

In your place I would be taking him back!
		
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This is your best bet. Was the horse advertised? Get copies of the advert if you can and any witnesses willing to speak up.

Huge hugs, what a terrible terrible experience you've had. xxx


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Yes this is all excellent advice which i was trying to do and yes it was just fear and panic which is why he kept running poor thing. i dont think he has unsolveable manners but i  do think given what ive since read that hes done this before. and yes i expected first some since being at home to be freaked but he has other horses next to him and a buddy for company. its only when i switched the fields that he went mad. i had trouble catching him in last night too, he had to follow the other guy in.  i cant turn him out he did this while turned out with others. he was out 24x7 before i believe but ' brought in' in winter i dont know how long for. 

i cant risk him going out, something spooking him and him ending up dead or killing someone else. its not fair on him.


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## Templebar (11 November 2013)

Thats aweful, i had one once as i was going onto horses off ponies, a 5 year old who was lovely well schooled nice hack tried her about 5 times at the yard. Got her home rode her in my little paddock which is where she lives on the second day of being there, got on, reached to check girth she went up over backwards. My mother who is better at lunging than me then lunged her and she settled got back on went to ride forward and she went up again, thankfully my mother had hold of her so no backwards. 

We had a good friend come ride her who does a lot with youngsters she said send her back she was like a coiled spring, thankfully owner took her back, we had them sign a disclaimer which helped. Turns out they bred her, backed her never had anyone else work her. Suddenly she is in a new place with new people and she flipped. 

That isn't much help to you but all i can say is yes you may be right in thinking PTS. But i would let him settle a bit spend some time with him, treat him like a fresh 3 year old that has never had a hand on him. You say he is broke but if there are this big a gap in his handling then i would hate to think what might happen should someone get on him and ask him to hack. Also i would ask around, who are the breeders? Are they reputable(though it sounds not), if you can find anyone else with a horse off them then ask what theirs were like and what they did. Also i would not be adverse to stating who the breeder is, if they are dealing horses then the next one they sell could kill someone and it sounds like they wouldn't care two hoots.

Edited to say; just read other posts i too second getting legal advice, as a breeder should stand you in good stead as they have to uphold standards and that would include not knowingly selling a dangerous horse. Get hold of these other people that have put about bolting horses, get his picture out and ask anyone if they have had him. If the breeder has sold him on knowing he has done this before they are definitely liable.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Hi faracat, he was fenced with post and electric before so i thought he would be OK with it. clearly not. Yep have the sale ad, it didnt say much tbh. Im going to call the BHS helpline now. Yes he can have a post and fail field but he went through 2 post and rail fences and a gate so i dont know if my fencing will hold him. 



Faracat said:



			That is such a frightening thing to happen, I'm so glad that you caught him in the end and I hope your knee is feeling better soon.

Was this the first time he was fenced with electric fencing? 
Do you think that it was going through that fence (and being zapped), that then set him off in a blind panic? 
If he was upset by you moving the horses into different paddocks, could you bring him in, shift the horses and then turn him out again? 
Could he have a paddock with no electric fence?

ETA - having read the new posts, I think that ringing the BHS helpline would be good.
		
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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

oh, i cant leave work theyre not very understanding. but i do feel like i need to, but i cant.


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## webble (11 November 2013)

No advice but just wanted to offer virul hugs and moal support. Hope you can sort something with the breeder. Was he vetted at all could the vet get involved?


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Flame_ said:



			You could take him back to the breeders, unload him and take him back up to their horses, then the diseases excuse is void but you'd still have a fight to get your money back.

If you don't want that fight and want to avoid pts, if you can afford to, could you send him for some intensive training/ handling acceptance with a professional?
		
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I cant afford that sadly, ive had a really bad run this year with horses - my 6 year old has been dxed with PSD and thats sucking pretty much all my cashflow.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

nope not vetted and dont see how vetting would have anything to do with it. not worth a vetting on such a low value horse.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

heh just realised i cant call BHS no phone its smashed!!!


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## Sussexbythesea (11 November 2013)

Sounds terrifying. I'd be on the gin rather than tea by now!

Try not to think too far ahead, this may be typical behaviour or a one off, there is time to make decisions although I can see that you might want to get rid asap if the horse is a danger to you and others. 

I would write down as much detail as to what has happened, what time and any witnesses as soon as possible. Take pictures of horse and fencing etc. Write down when you made phone calls to the seller and what you and they said before, during and after purchase about the horse and any behaviour, keep a copy of any advert they may have had. Even if you don't take any of this forward at least you will be in a position to do so if you want/need to. I would also write a formal email or letter to the seller immediately describing the incident and your concerns so that you have a record that you told them about it as soon as it happened. I think the disease issue is a lame and suspicious excuse for not accepting his return. 

Contact Trading Standards if you think the horse has been misdescribed.


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## Booboos (11 November 2013)

How scary for you! 

What was the horse like when you tried him? Did you handle him? Did you ride him?

If the breeder sells more than a certain number of horses a year they will be classed as a dealer and you can return the horse for a refund (you may need a solicitor's letter first to get things going). If the breeder is classed as a private seller then I think you may have limited comeback.


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Between him kicking the dog, me and getting through all my fencing, i cant turn him out and hes dangerous in th state he is in at the moment. i dont have the time to deal with an unhandled horse. i thought the basics had been done, didnt find out till after i handed money over the extent of the gaps.  going through the breeders facebook i find references to bolting horses so think hes done this before.
		
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Start shouting trading standards at them.  That might make them think again.

From your original post, he was settled yesterday - but it was the change today that upset him.  So can he go back to the same arrangement as yesterday for a few weeks until he's settled, as that seemed to work ok?


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## be positive (11 November 2013)

Reading between the lines, a homebred 7 year old that is barely backed, has never worn rugs and is sold very cheaply, now they want nothing to do with him, using the excuse of bringing in germs is ridiculous, this sounds suspiciously like a problem horse they just wanted rid of rather than spend time and money getting him to be a useful animal or if there really is something amiss doing the right thing by him.

Legally you are probably onto a loser, you knew he was green, paid little for him, probably failed to ask some searching enough questions or get anything in writing, the fact that he has jumped out, kicked the dog etc can be put down to a new home and being unsettled, if he is nice enough sending him away for a proper evaluation and possibly schooling may be worthwhile if you can find the right place.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (11 November 2013)

poor boy.
7yo and not seen much of the world.
gets turned out with a new mate, then that one and only friend in the new world gets taken away. he tries to follow and gets zapped, ends up out on the road, no idea where he is, being chased by a car.

hardly his fault at all and if you PTS you are doing so for your sake and not his.

he doesnt sound dangerous, just too much for you personally and that not enough thought/effort went in to his first couple of weeks at your yard.

he needs to go out next to his buddy ,in a strict routine,and form a bond/get familar with the yard, THEN you can start introducing moving things around, varying the routine etc.

IMO you set him up to fail by being so quick to start moving things around, as even very settled horses can get frantic if moving fields etc.

get someone to help you handle him, be firm but fair.

he may be 7 but he's a 3yo mentally and you havent made any allowances!

as far as the kicking goes, if you made a grab for my horse he would kick seven shades out you too, and not all horses are dog reliable, but thats no reason to PTS either.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Thank you. i think they have sold a few this year. i dont know exaclty how many though. I have already wrote to them via FB to tell them exacrtly what happened i cant take pics of anything or call anyone because of the phone being smashed. the breeders are an old guy and a young girl ( i think a granddaughter ) he was fine when i tried him, i saw him twice, the seond time i tacked up in stable and road him. he was green but OK to ride. the granddaughter hacked him down the road and i followed on behind on foot - they wouldnt let me hack him down the road ' for insurance reasons' they said.


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## SadKen (11 November 2013)

That. Is. Scary. 

Could you sedate him and see if that helps in the stable? As an interim measure it might help.  

Echo other comments re BHS helpline, finding out if this is a 'dealer' and Trading Standards. You could also go to the small claims court. 

Please keep us informed OP, I'm thinking of you and the horse x


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

I think youve misread my post. i didnt take any buddies away. i was aware he needed time to settle, i just moved them from one field to another so he could meet the other guys over the fence. i was trying to introduce him to other horses over the fence. he was introduced to his first buddy yesterday over the fence. 

please tell me what other effort i should have made? 

i only made a grab to try and save his life, from going on the A41.


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## Templebar (11 November 2013)

Do you not have a landline you can use and a camera not on your phone? Also get a friend to help you they will have a phone with camera. But really if your taking pictures for evidence a phone camera will not cut it as you cant make out the detail.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

also i dont see how PTS would benefit me at all. would be out of pocket the price i paid for him, plus money to fix fencing etc, plus PTS costs... maybe i can work with him.. i dont know but i would struggle with a horse that does not respect fencing and its a dangerous situation for all involved. Ive owned horses for years, have my own yard, compete etc had young horses before.. and if it was just an overhorse situation i would put my hands up and say.


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## Antw23uk (11 November 2013)

Bloody hell Mel, will be down as soon as I can, will be bring you some JD xxx


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## ILuvCowparsely (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			im sitting here shaking and crying just had a horrible experience.

Picked up a new horse yesterday - 7yo but green, direct from the breeder. He had been ridden on their yard but not hacked much and basically found out he has big gaps in his education - not had rug on, not been tied up. Turned him out next to another horse yesterday and he seemed fine. Today i turned him out with a buddy and when i went to switch fields with another horse and moved him next to another horse he went crazy. went through the post+electric, then over/through 2 lots of post and rail and then onto the road. i was chasing him to no avail but someone stopped in the car and we followed him in the car. he was heading towards the main road so i called the police to alert them. we tried getting in front of him, and stopped the car across the road a few times, but he ran me down. just before the main road i made a divebomb bu missed and he kicked my in the knee. somehow and i really dont know how he went straight across the main road without getting collected by a truck. about a mile from thew a41 he finally slowed to a trot , we managed to get past him and another divebomb meant i got him. some lovely horsey people stopped and i put him in a stable there ans got my lorry and went to collect him. hes soaked, sweating but stopped blowing and ive shut him in a stable for now.

The breeder is adamant that they wont take him back because of diseases he might have from being on my yard. All my horses compete so theyre all UTD on all jabs. theyre all in excellent condition. 

I knew i was taking on a green horse, but i was not expecting a horse that is 7 and backed to be this unhandleable. ive never had to deal with this situation before, and i have had green horses before. If my fencing cant hold him, nothing will . Im left with a big fencing bill, a horse that is dangerous ( he also kicked my dog yesterday ) the breeder is simply not interested, the horse is a danger to himself and others and i couldnt pass him on to someone so im facing having him PTS. IM in tears, my leg is killing me, the breeders attitude is simply making me angry, im sorry for the horse because hes sweet as really, its not his fault hes just scared. 

can i have a cup of tea please? and some peas for my knee.
		
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Horrific.


 1. I hope you have a receipt from a breeder 
 2. Wont have him back due to disease on your yard??? cope out I bet they knew what he was like.
 3. Ask  BHS what you can do
 5.Try once more then take him to small claims 
6, Tradiing Standard, although they are pretty useless in my experience
7. Sounds like some serious fails on the breeders part in training this horse, at 7 to behave and not even tie up.  




Say if you don't take him back  you will take him to small claims,  costs here https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees. 

 try here >  https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview

  He will have to cover your court fees as well as his if you get judge in your favour.  Sometimes the threat is enough .  Believe me I did it to a few liveries who refused to pay.

 I smell a rat and would not buy from them.  I bet this has happened before .


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

I think you need to take stock before you seriously consider putting this horse down - you've had a terrible shock.

Phone the BHS now (work must have a phone?)

Take photo's tomorrow of your fencing (you must surely have a camera?)

Sedate him to turn him out - but try turning him out exactly the same as yesterday, no change.

Was he turned out this morning - as yesterday?  Or did you leave him in until lunch time?


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

yes i could but that field is only post and electric and im worried he wont stay in the field. but could try


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## RubysGold (11 November 2013)

What an awful experience for you!! And how annoying that the breeder wants nothing to do with it 
hope your knee is better soon


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

You also need to be there - so book the day off.


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## Carefreegirl (11 November 2013)

Oh dear, what a messy situation all round. I must say though in the poor horses defence (not slating you OP) but he's 7 and you bought him from his breeders. He's had 7 years of familiarity and suddenly his while life and routine changes. 
It's bad enough or us humans who can understand change but for him it must be terrifying, hence the blind panic bolt.
 Last time I moved yards my horse took a good 6 months to truly settle in. I'd had her for 5 years at this point (most of her life as she was 2 when I got her) so she knew me and she knew the routine which stayed the same. It takes time to adjust. 

I just hope everything ends up well for you and the horse.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

am going to use a friends phone and call the BHS. no camera, only camera i have is on my phone. have sedalin so will sedate. was turned out this morning was fine ..calling bhs now


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## suestowford (11 November 2013)

I was just thinking about this - have you been in touch with the Dodgy Dealers page on fb? Isn't that MrsB's page as well as Epona Stars? They may know more about the breeder.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			I think youve misread my post. i didnt take any buddies away. i was aware he needed time to settle, i just moved them from one field to another so he could meet the other guys over the fence. i was trying to introduce him to other horses over the fence. he was introduced to his first buddy yesterday over the fence. 

please tell me what other effort i should have made? 

i only made a grab to try and save his life, from going on the A41.
		
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knowing how much of an isolated life he has led up until now, i think i would have let him settle with one other horse before moving the others around-mine are all very settled and know each other very well but when they move in to new paddocks (individual turnout) they still act like idiots, its bound to be unsettling for a new, nervous horse, even more so when he's so not used to it.

granted i too would grab a horse to stop an accident but dont blame him for kicking you, that was my point. you did the right thing to get him but he shouldnt be labelled dangerous for panicking and kicking out.


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			was turned out this morning was fine ..calling bhs now
		
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Ok, so this situation arose after you made a change. His second change in as many days.


I'm sure you'll be able to work around this.  Horse is obviously a sensitive soul and is going to need some sensitive management.


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## ILuvCowparsely (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			im sitting here shaking and crying just had a horrible experience.

Picked up a new horse yesterday - 7yo but green, direct from the breeder. He had been ridden on their yard but not hacked much and basically found out he has big gaps in his education - not had rug on, not been tied up. Turned him out next to another horse yesterday and he seemed fine. Today i turned him out with a buddy and when i went to switch fields with another horse and moved him next to another horse he went crazy. went through the post+electric, then over/through 2 lots of post and rail and then onto the road. i was chasing him to no avail but someone stopped in the car and we followed him in the car. he was heading towards the main road so i called the police to alert them. we tried getting in front of him, and stopped the car across the road a few times, but he ran me down. just before the main road i made a divebomb bu missed and he kicked my in the knee. somehow and i really dont know how he went straight across the main road without getting collected by a truck. about a mile from thew a41 he finally slowed to a trot , we managed to get past him and another divebomb meant i got him. some lovely horsey people stopped and i put him in a stable there ans got my lorry and went to collect him. hes soaked, sweating but stopped blowing and ive shut him in a stable for now.

The breeder is adamant that they wont take him back because of diseases he might have from being on my yard. All my horses compete so theyre all UTD on all jabs. theyre all in excellent condition. 

I knew i was taking on a green horse, but i was not expecting a horse that is 7 and backed to be this unhandleable. ive never had to deal with this situation before, and i have had green horses before. If my fencing cant hold him, nothing will . Im left with a big fencing bill, a horse that is dangerous ( he also kicked my dog yesterday ) the breeder is simply not interested, the horse is a danger to himself and others and i couldnt pass him on to someone so im facing having him PTS. IM in tears, my leg is killing me, the breeders attitude is simply making me angry, im sorry for the horse because hes sweet as really, its not his fault hes just scared. 

can i have a cup of tea please? and some peas for my knee.
		
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 To which I would add if he was ok yesterday he could have been either drugged or sedated or buted up and now its worn off.


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## Shysmum (11 November 2013)

God you poor thing. 

I  was just going to say, with regard to what is happening to the horse right now, I would get the vet out and get him on Sedalin.  This will really take the edge off, and help you to make plans.


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## Goldenstar (11 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Ok, so this situation arose after you made a change. His second change in as many days.


I'm sure you'll be able to work around this.  Horse is obviously a sensitive soul and is going to need some sensitive management.
		
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I agree , a seven year old whose never been away from home and cost £1000 I would have been expecting trouble .
Use sedation for a few days   keep him with one friend ATM and establish a strict roultine .
I hope your knees ok soon.
Take a deep breath .


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## ILuvCowparsely (11 November 2013)

Shysmum said:



			God you poor thing. 

I  was just going to say, with regard to what is happening to the horse right now, I would get the vet out and get him on Sedalin.  This will really take the edge off, and help you to make plans.
		
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 the only thing with that  Shy  is the vet might want to take bloods to see if there is anything else wrong and they wouldn't want that to mess the results.


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## WelshD (11 November 2013)

I dont have much that is constructive to add but would recommend that you take screenprints of anything that will back up your case that you have found online

(press shift and prtscn at the same time then click to a blank word document and right click and paste)


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

I wasnt expecting a made horse - so which is why i asked questions about the fencing he had before, routine he had before. I honestly though i was doing all the right things, introducing over fence. had a buddy etc. what i wasnt expecting was himt o go through that many fences and in a blind panic. having since gone though breeders fb i can now see shes had problems with a bolter before - it doesnt reference him specifically but i know she was riding him last year. i dont want to PTS but im not sure i have the time he needs and wouldnt feel right about selling him on knowing he can do this. 



Goldenstar said:



			I agree , a seven year old whose never been away from home and cost £1000 I would have been expecting trouble .
Use sedation for a few days   keep him with one friend ATM and establish a strict roultine .
I hope your knees ok soon.
Take a deep breath .
		
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## splashnutti1 (11 November 2013)

First off all so sorry you had such an awful experience hope you feel a bit better soon, it must have been very scary?

Not sure if this will help but i had a similar thing happen (not quite as bad) my new horse who was only 3 and a half but had been ridden a year in ireland ( sold to me as a 5 year old but knew he wasnt) had been with me a week and was in with my old man and shetland (only those 3 on the yard) all was fine till the weekend when i took the old man out of the field to ride ( left shetland in the field with new horse) now old man was only being ridden in the field just across the drive from where my new lad was! suddenly he flipped galloped through 3 electric fences, jumped over post and rail onto the drive, fortunatley galloped down the drive towards stables then crashed through more post and rail fencing and another electric fence before galloping madly round and round the field where old man was, took ten mins to calm him down enough to get hold of him and then had to shut him in a stable with both doors shut till he calmed down!!! he was unbale to get on road as luckily my yard has 6ft thick hedgeing and trees all the way round.

I eventually got him back out of stable once he was calmer, did some inhand ground work with him for an hour in a dually (he hadnt done much groundwork prior to me having him,), re stabled him overnight then turned him back out next morning! he has never done it since and have had him a year and a half now.

i think he had never seen electric before, he got a shock which spooked him but once he had time to calm down and realise that the fence hurts if touched and learnt to expect a shock he has been fine! now has great respect for all fencing 

if you feel your lads problems are un fixable then i would contact bhs for advice xx


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## Charlie007 (11 November 2013)

Absolutely frightening. I collected a horse a few years ago that proved to be dangerous. After having no 
luck with the seller we loaded horse up, took him back and parked lorry blocking off his drive. In the end he swapped the horse and we ended up with an absolute cracker.


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## dianchi (11 November 2013)

I am sorry that you have had this, but new horse never left home in 7yrs I would have gone a lot slower with a routine personally.

Anyway deep breathe no point worrying over spilt milk.

Important things here are- A do you still want the horse, if not then go down BHS route and return to breeder.

B- yes you do want horse and how to manage. Personally I would sedate for turnout for a week, keep the turnout in a strict routine, do not leave alone or in the dark.

You will have to treat him like a 5yo broken this year, and take it all slow.

My girl it turned out was a rearer and had been returned twice from where I got her from, none of this was told to me and I bought sold as seen. After about 2 months she did rear with me, but it was to a situation not just cos she could as others would have said.
Your poor boy has run from a confused situation nothing more, you don't know if this was the horse spoken about before so you cant make that call.

Keep calm and plan out what you are going to do.


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## Annagain (11 November 2013)

I think I'd be inclined to just take him back with no warning and leave him there - providing you can get in there to do it and it's not all locked up. Did you notice what the setup was when you were there? You can then start on getting your money back. I would feel a bit guilty about doing that to him, and it's probably not the right thing to do legally, but if they refuse to do the right thing I don't see what else you can do? 

If I'd bred him, had him for 7 years and knew that he was so upset going somewhere new I'd want him back for his sake, so there's obviously something fishy going on. 

In the meantime, definitely get him on sedalin.


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## doriangrey (11 November 2013)

What a horrible experience for you.  I have no advice to offer about where you might stand about returning the horse.  I can only add get your knee checked out and make sure you stay safe around the horse.  Sorry you had to go through it, I've chased my horse up the road before when someone left the gate open and even though she wasn't in a mad panic the scenarios going through my head were awful.  Feel better xx


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Thanks, just got off phone with BHS... they said to check my home insurance ( just about to ) and persue a claim as misdescribed. ( was decribed not a bolter, have witnesses ). Now i know it may just be a one-off and i know why he ran he was obviously terrified and hindsight being what it was maybe i could have gone slower, but honestly thought was doing all the right things, had a buddy, not alone, gradual introduction to rest of the horses over fence, etc. he was moved with his buddy to the next-door field. 

So what do i do now? good question. Yes i could load him up and go sit in their drive, but the old guy was pretty set in his ways - i nearly walked away because he changed the price when i came to pay for him so i ended up paying 50 quid more than i thought he was anyway and the granddaughter seemed nice enough i dont think she would be able to do much. But i feel the situaton would likely escalate and not in a good way.

Do i want a horse that bolts and has no respect for fencing? no. i specifically asked them if he bolts bucks or rears. i specifically asked what he was like being turned out and told he was fine, that he was used to post and electric.  i was prepared for a project and something that needed work and filling in the gaps of his education and there are some pretty big gaps. for my budget i expected that. 
the breeder mentioned no issues with being turned out. hes also quite difficult to catch at the moment but i expected that. i mentioned my concerns to the breeder regarding him not having ever been away from home and even asked for a trial - they said he would be fine and no to a trial. so i had my eyes open. 

I dont feel it would be responsible for me to sell him on. he would worry he would do the same thing. i honestly have to ask myself if i truly have the time to deal with the issues he has.. i am not sure. i work full time and i have 2 others. my plan was to work with him on the ground for the first 2 weeks anyway, didnt dream of getting on him for a while.  however, i feel needs monitoring in his turnout and im not sure i can do that. i do watch the horses through the window, but if he went again i would have no chance of catching him. 

My worry is some horses are just blind bolters - and i think he might be one. ive seen one before that bolted like that and there was a big nasty accident with someone getting seriously injured. Nothing stopped him and how he didnt kill himself or someone else i do not know. Now i could slow his routine down and sedate him and work with him, but my worry would be in the back of my mind of what if he did that with a rider on board. i am trying to look at the bigger picture here.


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## Booboos (11 November 2013)

I think you are entitled to return him if he does not suit for purpose, but don't communicate with them via FB or phone. Write a letter saying the horse is not fit for purpose (or whatever wording TS advise) and send it recorded delivery. 

Having said that I think you are a bit quick to label the horse a bolter. He had a fright and took off. Thinking back Freddy did kind of similar to me, when he was 5 years old. He had an injury and had been in a small electric fence pen with his buddy, a mini, I had only owned F for about a month or two at that stage. I went to get both of them and somehow the mini stepped out of the gate opening before I had a headcollar on F. F panicked, took off, took the fencing with me (which got wraped around my legs and pulled me to the ground, but luckily then came free of the horse so I was not dragged) and took off galoping around the farm for half an hour. Luckily he stopped at the cattle grid but still two of us and buckets of nuts still could not catch him for half an hour - he went completely bonkers. 

What I mean is that that's horses for you sometimes. Had this happened 2-3 years into ownership you would put it down to a really bad day. Freddy hasn't done anything like this before or after, it was just bad luck.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

right this minute he is in a stable -  dont want to sedate him just yet because of the colic risk. i will speak to the vet in the morning and see what he suggests re turnout and sedating. 2 of my fields are ruined anyway, and need to get the fencing fixed.


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## catroo (11 November 2013)

I think you're being a bit quick labelling him a bolter, there are lots of reasons why he did what he did and while quite an extreme reaction, it's not unheard off.

You either send back, keep and take things a lot slower, or sell.

Personally I wouldn't be put off buying an animal like you have described if I felt he had potential but I have my own land, a very settled and laid back group and high hedges and trees.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

yep maybe i am a bit quick but just reminds me of the experiences ive had before. ive had bolters in the past, and i believe there are 2 kinds, one which will bolt but will protect himself and one that runs blind into anything. he was running at cars and they were getting out of the way.


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## Goldenstar (11 November 2013)

Unless you can prove that when you asked about bolting it was in context of turnout I don't think it gives you any come back from the owner .
The horse was probally fine turned out with them it was away from home from for the first time and its seven and panicked I don't think its a given they knew it would misbehave.
if you take them to court that's what they will say we could not have foreseen the horse doing this .
However if you don't want the horse seek to return it PDQ then take them to the small claims court.


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## pansy (11 November 2013)

Sorry haven't read all posts  what a horrible thing to happen - i cant imagine how you are feeling I am short on time - need to do horses before dark - did you say dealers have a Fb page ? Maybe put some comments on there as to what has happened or suggest that you might - if they block you could always go on as a friend


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

catroo said:



			I think you're being a bit quick labelling him a bolter, there are lots of reasons why he did what he did and while quite an extreme reaction, it's not unheard off.

You either send back, keep and take things a lot slower, or sell.

Personally I wouldn't be put off buying an animal like you have described if I felt he had potential but I have my own land, a very settled and laid back group and high hedges and trees.
		
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ideally i would like to send him back. i believe it is the best place for him. i also have my own land and a very settled and laid back group. unfortunately i dont have any high hedges..... but through post and rail would be enough.


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## Flame_ (11 November 2013)

I maintain (against the majority on here) that an awful lot of horses have bolted, proper full blown, panicked, ain't stopping for nobody bolted but aren't deranged lost causes and "true bolters".

Many, many horses have it in them if they feel driven to it, but they certainly aren't all only good for dog food. You wanted a project (which is really code for PITA at least currently if not forever) that is probably what he is.


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## Goldenstar (11 November 2013)

Flame_ said:



			I maintain (against the majority on here) that an awful lot of horses have bolted, proper full blown, panicked, ain't stopping for nobody bolted but aren't deranged lost causes and "true bolters".

Many, many horses have it in them if they feel driven to it, but they certainly aren't all only good for dog food. You wanted a project (which is really code for PITA at least currently if not forever) that is probably what he is.
		
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All horses have it in them to bolt they are flight animals .
I frankly think its ludricous to label a horse that done this as some sort of dangerous nutter on its first move from home it was over faced and panicked .


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## Polos Mum (11 November 2013)

The breeders attitude would raise alarm bells for me.  Most genuine people want their sold horses to end up in the right place and if he was as just uneducated and had done this I'd have assumed (very wrongly probably) that you couldn't handle his level of education and I'd be there in a flash to pick him up. 

The fact they've told you to poke it is probably not a good sign. 

Looks like you might have to clear up the mess of someone who wouldn't do the responsible thing by a horse they bred - very sad but not uncommon.

I can't think of many example of horses running through 2 sets of post and rail - but happy to be corrected if this is a common occurance


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

i will re-iterate that i dont want to have to PTS. and i will try, while i can to do the right thing by the horse, but i will also be seeking to return the horse through the proper channels. im not even that worried about the money, i just want the horse in a safe situation. 

In the meantime i will try to work with him and make sure he is safe and well cared for. i am however extremely worried that this will happen again if i turn him out. however will go back and slow things down/sedate for turnout in the short term. Last resort is PTS though. Ive seen horses get a fright and bolt, and ive seen ones who bolt with no self-preservation and i believe there is a difference, sorry about that.


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## splashnutti1 (11 November 2013)

Polos Mum said:



			The breeders attitude would raise alarm bells for me.  Most genuine people want their sold horses to end up in the right place and if he was as just uneducated and had done this I'd have assumed (very wrongly probably) that you couldn't handle his level of education and I'd be there in a flash to pick him up. 

The fact they've told you to poke it is probably not a good sign. 

Looks like you might have to clear up the mess of someone who wouldn't do the responsible thing by a horse they bred - very sad but not uncommon.

I can't think of many example of horses running through 2 sets of post and rail - but happy to be corrected if this is a common occurance
		
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I agree its probably not a common occurence but as i said in my previous post my lad ploughed through my post and rail wooden fencing and my electric when he got spooked so it can happen. It gave me a real fright at first and i was unsure what to do with him as he was just blindly running through things (including me lol), i am in no doubt that if he could have got on the road he would have gone for miles, took ages to calm him down, but he was new to the place so gave him the benefit of the doubt, did some basic ground work with him and he has never shown a hint of doing anything like it since, infact i dont even have the electric on now and he stays put, so can turn out okay 

Every horse is different though, op hope it works out for you whatever you decide  xx


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (11 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			All horses have it in them to bolt they are flight animals .
I frankly think its ludricous to label a horse that done this as some sort of dangerous nutter on its first move from home it was over faced and panicked .
		
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agree completely.
if you dont have the skills or nerves to deal with him, gift him to someone who does.
this is not the horses fault at all and i cant belive people are advising filling him full of dope as though he's some kind of dangerous nutjob.


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## OrangePepper (11 November 2013)

I am sorry to read of your problems with your horse.
I would always advise having a horse vetted, however cheap as they all cost the same amount of money and time to keep.
I would suggest that the warning signs were already there - the horse being a green 7 year old.
I would also suggest that it will take some time for this horse to settle and calm down in it's new environment and that you will need to persist to determine it's true temprement and character.
In view of the sum you paid fo the horse it is not worth the aggrovation, time or money taking any legal action against the breeder unless as a matter of principle in which case you will not come out of it spending less than about £10k on legal fees.


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## LittleRooketRider (11 November 2013)

can't really offer any more advice than what anyone else has already said....chin up (((HUGS)))


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## YasandCrystal (11 November 2013)

To be fair to the OP here I expect (as we all would be) she was scared witless at this horrible event. I too would probably be hysterical with fear at something like this happening and the possible consequences.
Likely when she has had a little time to reflect and gather a good plan of action all will go well. We can all have shots out of the blue although not usually this serious and have a knee jerk reaction to it - very understandable.
I do hope that the horse is just green and scared and all will come right. I have a 4 yr old filly who is a handful at times on the ground and does the unexpected and one does get complacent if you have older well mannered horses who are settled it's easy to forget just how good they are. Mostof te good behaviour is down to trust and that needs to be grown with a new horse. Good luck OP.


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## Polos Mum (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			i will re-iterate that i dont want to have to PTS. and i will try, while i can to do the right thing by the horse, but i will also be seeking to return the horse through the proper channels. im not even that worried about the money, i just want the horse in a safe situation.
		
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OP don't get me wrong the right thing doesn't have to be PTS, it could be months of careful handling and education or vet investigations (v poor sight might make a horse run through fencing) but IMHO the breeder should have done this.

When I compare to the lovely Dolly who was brought up by first time foal owners and looks to be a pleasure to own it's a shame all breeders don;t put the same investment in early education!


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## be positive (11 November 2013)

That the horse bolted from the field would not be covered by the statement that it does not bolt, buck or rear they are considered ridden vices, taking fright and galloping down the road when loose is totally different.

As for sedation, it will not last for long, sedalin is not going to stop it from having a panic and may not even relax him anyway, he settled when you first turned him out so may well do the same next time.
I don't know what the answer is in where you go if they breeders refuse to take him back, fighting through courts will take time and money, the horse may have a problem but the chances are the poor thing has been a victim of circumstances, lack of education in his early years, then maybe being a bit more than they could deal with, now passed on for little money just to get shot of their problem.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

noone here ever said it was the horses fault.

I would love to have the facilities and 12 ft high hedges to keep this horse from bolting onto the road. But i dont. I have to do what is right by the horse to keep him SAFE. 

 Every horse reacts differently to new situations. Ive had horses that have come off the boat from Holland that have never had a new home and not reacted like this. I do not have psychic ability sadly. Other youngsters i have had have not reacted like this. Ive never seen anything quite like it. Ive seen bolters but not like this. If that means i am 'overhorsed' or 'lack the skills or nerves' to deal with this, then so be it. I am saying i lack the *facilities* to deal with this and the time required to monitor the horse in turnout every day.

I need to keep the horse safe and the public safe and myself safe. Im not worried about labelling him but it was an extremely dangerous situation today that i dont want to repeat.


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## Slightly Foxed (11 November 2013)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			agree completely.
if you dont have the skills or nerves to deal with him, gift him to someone who does.
		
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Where are all these wonderfully skilled  'horsey angels' who are willing to take on other people's problems??

To be fair, the OP is in shock, as I suspect many of us would be given that situation. Hindsight's a wonderful thing and maybe she should have taken things a little more slowly but what's happened has happened, maybe once over the shock she'll be able to see a way forward more clearly.

OP, I suspect you haven't a cat's chance of returning the horse to the breeder (unless you dump him there) or getting your money back. Good luck, I've been in a not dissimilar situation, although your horse is a lot younger than mine was, so maybe there's hope.


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## luckyoldme (11 November 2013)

its bloody terrifying. ive had my horse 5 years now but can clearly remember him galloping down the a1 followed by a truck. 
thing is you only have so long to make a descision . In the case of mine it was I think an extreme reaction to change and being in the hands of a nervous new owner.
You sound like you have a lot more about you than I do with horses..i just bought him and thought at the time it was par for the course! We got through it and built up a fantastic bond...although I would never feel right selling him..i know what he is capable of under all that butter would nt melt .
I know it took a long time to sort out..I had to turn him away and build the bond up gradually by only bringing him in to do nice stuff. funny thing is he is the most easy to do horse you could imagine now and well worth the hard work....... bringing him back into work taught me so much and was most definitely one of the most rewarding things I have ever done.


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## DW Team (11 November 2013)

OP I have no advice ref the horse and bolting/returning him but just wanted to say I do hope you and he are ok and not to sore.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Thank you Slightly foxed. Yes of course i am shocked and upset but also very grateful that the horse wasnt killed or anyone else was killed. also very grateful to the people who stopped and helped.


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## windand rain (11 November 2013)

If you only collected him yesterday then I would load him up and take him straight back. If you anticipate a breach of the peace take a policeman with you Even a community one can bring a presence with him. They cannot refuse to take him back you may well have to pursue them through small claims to get the money back but as you say the horses welfare is paramount and if he cant be trusted you are already on the back foot. Get him back there and even if you have to hang about waiting for them make sure they know you mean business. He is not fit for purpose and is being sold by a dealer in the sense he is from a commercial breeder


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## Mariposa (11 November 2013)

Must have been absolutely petrifying OP, I hope you're ok and your knee isn't too smashed up, sounds like you need a ruddy big drink


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Thank you. Its so good to hear im not the only one to have been in that situation and that others know how terrifying it really was for me. 

Im no worldbeater but ive had projects before, youngsters before. have i dealt with this particular situation? no. but i doubt there is anyone on here who has dealt with every possible conceivable situation that can happen with a horse and if they have all the answers i would love to hear from them! Im not normally nervous of handling horses, i have some that arent easy already ( a rearer who is on box rest atm, joy! and a very sharp ridden horse ) and ive owned a few youngsters. but in all honesty, i didnt buy this horse as a forever horse, he was a project for me to bring on while my other horse was being rehabbed. Clearly this horse has more issues than i expected, but my worry is again the facilities and the time monitoring his turnout.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

i would but i cant force them to take him back.


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## honetpot (11 November 2013)

First of all what a shock and I can only imagine how sick to the stomach you felt. I think its all very easy to say this horse may not do it again, but if it does the owner and the owner of the land( who in this case are the same person) are liable. The horse was lucky it wasn't killed but every car driver that missed it had a lucky escape to. In law even you have secure fencing and gates and your horse gets out you are liable for any damage or injury that's why third party insurance is so important. 
   Whether this a one off or not unfortunately there is a duty of care, the breeder may be classed as a trader but that doesn't help you unless you want to keep it contained in a stable and fight through the small claims court. I think a safe solution would to turn it out in a fold yard or barn with company but its sound horrible I would probably get the hunt out and not have the worry.
 A field neighbour of mine bought a pony and it has shown rig behaviour, breaking fences and attacking neighbours geldings. They had been told to either make sure the fence was secure or have it PTS. Last week it broke through the post and rail and seriously injured the neighbours gelding and it needed a four hour operation and it still might not recover. They have now put security fence panels but too late for the gelding. I just wouldn't want the worry.


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## JoannaC (11 November 2013)

What a horrible thing to happen.  I wonder if he did get zapped by the electric.   I had a similar incident when I first got my mare as an unbroken 4 year old.   She'd been fine for the first month and this particular morning she seemed a bit unsettled so I stayed in the field poo picking.   She was near the fence and I think she must have touched it because she suddenly came belting down the field and then her rug slipped which completely freaked her out she then jumped out the field and proceeded to jump/barge through various fences around the yard.  Thankfully she didn't get out onto the road but I still remember the feeling of terror and thinking she was going to kill herself.    She can still be a bit of an idiot out in the field but touch wood has never done anything like it again but I do hate seeing her galloping round the field like a loon as it reminds me of that awful day.    It does sound like your chap still has a mental age of 4 rather than 7 and hopefully it will all seem a bit better in the morning.


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## ihatework (11 November 2013)

It's a really difficult one, OP I do feel for you.

I don't actually think you have done anything wrong - I don't think it is out of the question to expect a 7yo to turnout and have some sense of self preservation. You couldn't have predicted what he was going to do, despite retrospectively being able to explain why the behaviour may have come about.

Firstly, deep breath. Big glass of gin and a hot soak in the bath. He is okay and you are okay apart from being bruised and shaken.

I suppose next you have to decide what you are going to do. My main concern is that his 'breeders' have washed their hands of him. Now if that were my horse and I generally believed the horse to be a goodun, I would be worried sick if it displayed that kind of behaviour. At the very least offering to come and help/see what was going on.

None of sat here behind the computer screen can make a true assessment of either the horse or your ability to deal with the horse, so in my mind you need to partly go with your gut feeling and partly with some good unbiased experienced advise from a horsey professional that knows you.

You have 4 main courses of action:
1. Fight the breeders tooth and nail to get them to take the horse back and refund. This may work, it may not. But it will likely be a long and emotional journey that you may not win.
2. Sell/rehome the horse - honestly, can't see a massive market for something like this. Plenty of do-gooders out there that might not do the horse a favour though. Be very careful if you go down this route.
3. Have the horse PTS. Do you know what, I wouldn't blame you if you did, no emotional attachment and a case of cut your losses.
4. Keep the horse and work with him. Think very carefully about this if you do decide to do this.

There isn't a right or wrong answer here, you just have to do what feels right for you.


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## BBH (11 November 2013)

It sounds horrific an experience and I can only imagine the terror you felt about what could have happened.

IMO the horse has made a catastrophic mistake but that Is all, just because you have had bolters before doesn't mean he is one. If you look at him in the cold light of day you have a horse who at the age of 7 had experienced very little. Your description of the lack of interest from the breeder makes you assume their horses were left to fend for themselves in a herd with very little / no chance of bonding with a human.

My advice - keep him stabled for a week , walking in hand, groom him , walk him around the new yard, let him bond and realise humans aren't bad and his surroundings aren't actually that scary.

Them put him in a small paddock with a quiet friend and again let him settle. Once happy them turn him out with another and in bigger field if required.

Once he has a chance to quieten and feel more confident he won't have anything to bolt from.
He has a lot of catching up to do and patience is needed whether that is from yourself or another experienced person.

Give him a fair chance and you maybe rewarded. Nine of this sounds his fault.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Thank you ihatework. Seriously, thank you.

Yes this is exactly my conundrum. i was thinking of doing 1 and 4 together. I am going to call the vet tomorrow and see if they have any advice. I am also saddened by the breeders attitude. I dont want to do 2 because i cant risk it. i may have to face doing 3. my gut instinct sadly says 3 because if this happens again i dont think the outcome would be a lot worse than it was at this time.

Yes while i was chasing him down and he was heading down woards the A road, it was going through my head of weether my 3rd party insurance (BHS) would cover this. it was only sheer luck the road he took is a 4 way intersection with the A41 so he was able to go straight over and not along the A41.


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			agree completely.
if you dont have the skills or nerves to deal with him, gift him to someone who does.
		
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How completely unnecessary.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

I have had bolters before - but not like this a true, non-self preservation bolt. years ago i had a horse that would bolt inhand. she would take you on a skiing lesson then just ****** off.  But she always had self-preservation about her. 

Surprisngly, the horse rides quite well but there are other big gaps in his education which i was prepared for, ie groundwork. the plan before today was not even ride him for a while but work on the groundwork stuff fir a good while first. 

i will re-iterate my first post - its not his fault he was clearly terrified.


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## ihatework (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Thank you ihatework. Seriously, thank you.

Yes this is exactly my conundrum. i was thinking of doing 1 and 4 together. I am going to call the vet tomorrow and see if they have any advice. I am also saddened by the breeders attitude. I dont want to do 2 because i cant risk it. i may have to face doing 3. my gut instinct sadly says 3 because if this happens again i dont think the outcome would be a lot worse than it was at this time.

Yes while i was chasing him down and he was heading down woards the A road, it was going through my head of weether my 3rd party insurance (BHS) would cover this. it was only sheer luck the road he took is a 4 way intersection with the A41 so he was able to go straight over and not along the A41.
		
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Well best of luck. Definitely stay safe, have a chat with the vet about sedation options ( I believe there is a long term injectable that might be worth considering) and build new situations up with him carefully. Always have a second person around just in case. 

It would be nice to give him a second chance, you never know he may reward you in spades.


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## Love (11 November 2013)

How terrifying for you digitalangel! Glad you managed to get him in the end, hope you are both ok!


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## Fools Motto (11 November 2013)

I wonder if anyone local to you can come and lend you a hand for a while? They may also be able to help you assess him, and his problems. Not saying you can't, but it is so much nicer, and easier to have a new set of eyes, thoughts and feelings about, a potentially dangerous situation. I feel for you.
I'd keep him in, and work on some basic handling, tying up, pampering. Be normal, don't pussy foot about him. See if anything you do sets him off in any way. Try and keep all gates closed, and leave a leather headcollar on him, with a 'dangly' until you get a partnership. (You can always ''catch'' him by putting on another over the top).
I wish you all the best.  PS - any chance of a photo of him? - I'm so nosey!


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## Templebar (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			I have had bolters before - but not like this a true, non-self preservation bolt. years ago i had a horse that would bolt inhand. she would take you on a skiing lesson then just ****** off.  But she always had self-preservation about her. 

Surprisngly, the horse rides quite well but there are other big gaps in his education which i was prepared for, ie groundwork. the plan before today was not even ride him for a while but work on the groundwork stuff fir a good while first. 

i will re-iterate my first post - its not his fault he was clearly terrified.
		
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I would just like to say that i have a horse that can bolt blindly. She did it once with me on the road i was leading her and a car came by way too fast she bolted blindly and galloped right into a 5 bar gate, nose first. However she has not done it again and i now feel we have a better bond and i could help her come out of it. So he may not be like that for life.

I have been thinking since my reply earlier this afternoon and i think can really see why your stuck, i dont know how far your going to get with the breeders and you say your not happy selling him on but in all likelihood if he went back that is all they would do. You bought him as a project horse until other horse is better, can you afford to keep him long term? If you wanted a project horse to make some money from i suggest giving him away to someone who wants him and then look for another or PTS. If you want to still work with him then carry on and sell but state all his concerns outright you may get less for him and may not be able to sell him at all but that way you can still work him, get rid of him when finished you just may need to cut your losses.


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## Quenotte (11 November 2013)

Sorry to hear about your story. But I think you need to think carefully and not to make a hasty decision.
If it was me, I would get a professional opinion, you should get a trainer/horsemanship specialist coming to assess the horse.
I would also consider sending him for schooling/training to a specialist if I didnt have time myself to work on him.
Also try to take some time to bond with him so he will be easier to handle and will get to trust you as his leader.
You should definetely go on to give something to calm him down (food/drugs - to see with your vet).
You should not give up on him so quickly, give him a second chance and some time to settle.
Crossing my fingers for you and hoping for the best.
IF you are thinking of PTS it might be worth contacting a rescue.


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## sunnyone (11 November 2013)

Definitely terrifying for you and the horse. Bolting down a main road is never good for the owner's nerves. However I have a suggestion. Ask the breeder if he had a favourite companion in his old home and, if so, given what's happened, could you borrow it for a week or two?
I once sold a yearling to a friend who had no transport so took her over in my 3 horse lorry. As the space was there we took 2 other horses with her just for the ride. Yearling unloaded well and started to graze. We shut the lorry up, turned round, and no yearling. She was 2 miles up the A27 as she'd jumped four foot into a garden and then run out onto the road. Happily she wore herself out and was good to catch and had seen traffic before. Once back with my friend we unloaded one of her friends and left him with the yearling. They both settled and she barely missed him when we fetched him back as she had new friends by then.
Obviously if the breeder pleads germs ........


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## Nightmare before Christmas (11 November 2013)

I see both sides. Sucks you have a new horse whos playing up but if I sold the horse to you I wouldnt want it back either. Horses are animals and act differently in different places.


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## MiniMilton (11 November 2013)

How terrifying. I personally don't think being green or a lack of handling is a reason for blind bolting in that manner. If a normal horse panics when changing field, you would expect it to try to get in with its new fieldmate, not run away from it. If there is Internet evidence of the breeder mentioning bolting I would get screenshots asap. They may try to delete that, or may have already done so.
Best of luck


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## Echo Bravo (11 November 2013)

Cut your loses and PTS, you have labelled him a bolter so in your mind that is how he will stay.


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## Shantara (11 November 2013)

Hi there!!

I can sympathise, as I have been through pretty much the same thing! (Though I didn't catch up to him so quickly as you! and he was not a new horse)

I moved yards with my Ned, he stayed quite happily for 2 days and on the 3rd...he decided to to leave. He jumped the fence and was gone! Goodness knows what happened from when he left, until I got him back 6 or 7 miles later.

Like your horse, he had been on the same yard since 2008, so quite a while!

We then moved him to a field and hey presto - he did the same thing!! About 4-5 miles this time.

I made sure the gate was 100% Ned proof and stuck him in there. He tried to get out again, but he simply couldn't get out and he finally settled. 


No help I'm afraid, but I honestly wish you the very very very VERY best of luck and I hope you feel better soon! *big hugs*


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

i would happily give this horse back to the breeder, i mentioned before money is not my priority, the horses safety is. Yup have other people around me who are knowledgable, and im sure they will help. I  havent got buckets of money to spend on this horse sadly but i will do my best. Am going to try to give him the benefit of the doubt, try to keep him as safe as i can, but also keep asking for the breeder to take him back because i am suspicious that they knew of his problems. I cant keep him long-term but i will do what i can to make him safe. my biggest concern is that giving him the benefit of the doubt is a huge risk because next time the outcome may not be so lucky for him or for me or for the general public.


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## Mrs. Jingle (11 November 2013)

How terrifying for you and for the poor horse. I bet he could do with a stiff drink tonight too. I am quite suspicious
of the fact that he is a 7 year old gelding and has little done and has remained with the breeders for his whole life? Is it 
possible he has been late gelded too, that might add to his present panic and bewilderment in a new home. 

But as you said, you did suspect he was a 'project' because of his price and the breeders rather reticent attitude with 
the facts and the very unprofessional changing of his price right at the last minute. I think the old boy was chancing his luck once he was certain he had a buyer for a hitherto difficult horse.

You have my utmost sympathy, I really feel you have been had good and proper. But in defence of this poor horse, lets be quite clear here. Returning him to the breeder/dealer in no way ensures he is 'safe' does it? Quite the opposite based on your opinions of the people who sold you the horse. I imagine they will refuse to return your money even if they have the horse back and they could well decide to just send him off to the abattoir, to get rid of the problem he his, once and for all.

If you can hand on heart say that you truly don't believe with time, patience and someone willing to go the extra mile for this gelding will NOT change him in any way, then do him a favour and have him killed tomorrow.


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## charlie76 (11 November 2013)

OP, I can see why this frightened you but I wouldnt be so quick to call him a bolter, he got unsettled, made a wrong decision , got caught in a fence and panicked, the more he panicked the more he ran. I wouldn't introduce him over a fence, I personally hate this as you are asking for a front  leg to go through, stick him out with his field friends and let hi. Settle, if you think he will be silly either sedate him until he gets used to his new routine or give him plenty of work before turn out.
Even the most sedate horses can do odd things in new situations,we have a cob on our yard, the most laid back animal you could meet, last week a new mare went in with her, she for some reason best known to herself worried over it and attempted to jump a five foot post and rail fence from standstill, she ended up getting wedged on the upright post with all four feet off the ground, needing a vet and the fence cutting down around her, she was in hurt but it proves that they sometimes do silly things and when they feel trapped or chased it can escalate


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## MadBlackLab (11 November 2013)

I'm sorry this has happened to you and I can imagine you very shaken up and you have every right to be. I think you need to take a step back and review the situation again.

First of all you said this horse kicked your dog. You got to remember this is a new horse, he may not been brought up with dogs around and this is something he will get use to in time.

You also said he kicked you. In his defence I doubt he did it on purpose. I do think you should get your knee checked over by a doctor to be in the safe side.

Now regarding your boy you have to see things from his point of view. He has spent first 7 years of his life in the same place, how he was treated I can not say, but from what your explained he sounds like he is terrified and maybe because of this, this is why he is so green and unhandled. Lack of confidence and experience on the breeders behalf IMHO.

From what you explained happened today, seeing from the horses point of view. He comes to new home, finds a new buddy and field and suddenly this moves. He didn't understand you were going to introduce him to more new friends. He just panicked and bolted. Remember horses are flight animals.

I believe with lots of time and lots patient he could be a lovely horse. Please re think your decision. There are lots of people on here that can offer lots of advice.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Just to clarify - i think when i wrote my original post i was very shocked and upset. I was looking ofr a recourse to have him sent back as i am still doubtful if i have the facilities and time to deal with this.  Having had a cup of tea, and putmy leg up ( knee is now a lovely shade of purple ) im now thinking i will try with him as much as i can. Ive spent a little time with him this evening, hes very shocked in himself and quite withdrawn, but ive done back to treating him as completely unhandled, so all i did tonight was run my hands over his head and neck until he accepted that, and checked his legs for any sign of damage. Im going to do what i can to avoid PTS.


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## spotty_pony (11 November 2013)

That must have been so scary! Hope your knee is better soon. Did you get him vetted (sorry if this has already been asked!) and could you consider getting bloods done in case there is still traces of them using a sedative or something when you bought him?


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## kerrieberry2 (11 November 2013)

I have read all the posts but I'm sorry that is not the sort of thing I'd expect from any horse that's right in the head!  what a load of twoddle from the breeder, they clearly know he has issues, which is why they wont have him back!!

I have no advice but I just wanted to say I hope your knee is okay and hope you can get something sorted!!


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## thatsmygirl (11 November 2013)

I can't believe the amount of people here saying send him home, its been 1 day!!

Op out of interest how far away did u buy him? Only asking as years ago a new horse I had chucked me off and ran back to her old home all 9 miles off it and put herself back in her stable. I won't say bolt as she was in a new home, scared and upset and seeked comfort which was her old home. Could he of been trying this?


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## windand rain (11 November 2013)

Good for you OP the only reason I would have sent him back tomorrow is because the longer you keep him the less likely you can legally send him home. I would have taken him straight back I am afraid but once I had lept him for a little while I would have accepted responsibility for him and done my best. Had he been a week or month in his new home I would feel less inclined to send him home. 
Well done on accepting his limitations I hope your leg is not too sore and heals well Good on you for giving him a chance


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## MadBlackLab (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Just to clarify - i think when i wrote my original post i was very shocked and upset. I was looking ofr a recourse to have him sent back as i am still doubtful if i have the facilities and time to deal with this.  Having had a cup of tea, and putmy leg up ( knee is now a lovely shade of purple ) im now thinking i will try with him as much as i can. Ive spent a little time with him this evening, hes very shocked in himself and quite withdrawn, but ive done back to treating him as completely unhandled, so all i did tonight was run my hands over his head and neck until he accepted that, and checked his legs for any sign of damage. Im going to do what i can to avoid PTS.
		
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Glad to see this. Just take it a step at a time. 

One way to get him used to being touched and handled is to get an old broom handle using a stuff rubber glove attached at end of broom handle you can stroke him using this dummy hand so he can get use to being touched. Once he has accepted this you can use your own hand and if need be use a long rope so you can hold him too. 

We here to offer any advice you require


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## Pidgeon (11 November 2013)

Didn't want to read and run OP. Scary day hope your knee and dog are ok? 
Re the horse, difficult as it is give him another chance, as you say he is shocked at himself and withdrawn so perhaps it was just a new place etc, who knows. Would a true bolter who has done it before be like that? I don't know. I've only ever experienced one bolt and that was when I was on 17.2hh going head on for a car! Scared the living daylights out of me if I'm honest. However found the cause of the bolting incident, root tooth infection.
I really do feel for you as my gut instinct as I imagine yours is is that the dealer knew damn well what he was like. However glad to see you are prepared to give him a chance, I really do hope it all turns out well for both of you.


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## MiniMilton (11 November 2013)

kerrieberry2 said:



			I have read all the posts but I'm sorry that is not the sort of thing I'd expect from any horse that's right in the head!  what a load of twoddle from the breeder, they clearly know he has issues, which is why they wont have him back!!
		
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Absolutely agree


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

hard to say.. like i said he was heading straight into cars it was the cars that were swerving. he also didnt slow down when he saw traffic going past on the A road. he just ran straight towards it. no self-preservation at all. Im going to try and give him the benefit of the doubt... but honestly, i am not that hopeful. going to take him back to very very baby basics not rush him not try to ride him just baby basics.


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## Saneta (11 November 2013)

What a dreadful experience for both you and the horse.  I can remember when looking for my first horse, I was warned that sometimes people "drug" their horses, so that they can appear lovely and calm when you go to visit and test ride.  I was appalled that anyone could behave so dishonestly...25 years later, very little shocks me I'm sad to say.
Your poor horse has had a terrifying experience too, and it seems to me that perhaps you could spend some 'bonding' time together.  Could you perhaps do some Ttouch?  Gentle grooming, exploring what you can do to make him relax.  Don't even think about riding him yet, don't put pressure on him or you.  I really, really hope he will start to enjoy being owned and loved by you, and he can forget the horrors he has endured to date.  I realise I'm making some huge assumptions here, but you do sound a sensible and caring person, so if anyone can turn him around, you probably can!
If you don't see any change, even the slightest after a few months, then seek professional advice and if nothing or no-one can make a difference, then PTS, no point in adding to his misery being passed around.  At least you will have tried...
Arnica for you and your dog!!


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

I am now wondering wether he was drugged but i dont think so, but i cant be sure. who knows. he wasnt that calm when i was there but wasnt exhibiting fearful behavior either. Since having him home hes turned his bum to me a few times, kicked the dog and raised his leg to me once or twice. i put all of this down to being in a new home/new situation and wasnt worried about it. just thought i would work more on handling on the ground. i didnt expect him to be OK when he got here, i expected problems hence him being a project - but i didnt not expect him to go through 5 sets of fencing either.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

I will do my utmost best to give him every chance. He deserves that. And having thought about it im pretty sure the breeder knew of this issue - and i should have picked up on it.. the fb post.. the fact they wouldnt let me hack him out and he was always in a stable when i went to see him. Maybe its better he doesnt go back there, but it was my first thought of where he would be safe and secure.


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## meesha (11 November 2013)

Just to put the thought out there, is he 7? Not that this makes a difference if he is a true bolter but worth a thought, may well have been kept with same horses (ie his mum) for all of life in same field.  My 3 year old jumped a five bar gate after I took my mare out for the first time after he arrived, even though his other field companion was still in field, he has also bolted once but it was panic and not a blind bolt although this wasn't much comfort at the time, galloping down the road and having to throw myself off after having lost stirrups etc after he spooked and fell.  He has never done either of these things again.


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## MadBlackLab (11 November 2013)

meesha said:



			Just to put the thought out there, is he 7?
		
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This is very good point. Is there any possibility he isn't 7 but younger?


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

As far as i know, they seperated mares and geldings. and they have sold a few already, so no idea how he reacted them then if a buddy was sold. i was simply told he was good in the field. good out with others etc. He also went down when bolting and also slippedon the road a few times hes likely to be sore/sore tomorrow but not accepting any hard feed, feed from my hand, and even tasty mollasses didnt interest him. Hes tucking into hay though.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

i think he is 7 but hes not chipped so cant be sure. cant be sure of anything now  hes not good at letting me look in his mouth and i didnt want to stress him out. i dont think hes teeth have ever been done thought. Passport says 7.


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## Goldenstar (11 November 2013)

Just keep him very calm and level and establish roultine that does not change .
Try and team up with your most level headed horse and put them out in a small paddock while you are there .
Just give him hay .
Establish handling time daily and do it at the same time .
Get his eyesight checked pronto .
I have know one horse whose bizarre behaviour was caused by a floating cataract .
Be careful hope your feeling better tonight .


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## Exploding Chestnuts (11 November 2013)

I would get straight onto, BHS legal helpline, appoint a solicitor and advise vendors by letter that the horse is not suitable for purpose, and that they will be charged for all costs.
The animal is not fit for purpose, so try Trading Standards as well.
I don't believe that breeders/vendors did not know he was dangerous.
He may get better treatment from you than he has had, but he is not  safe, and he may never be safe.
In the end you will put a load of cash in to this horse [and time] and it may still end up with a bullet, which will fill you full of guilt as well as all your other problems.


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## ILuvCowparsely (11 November 2013)

You should always be wary when buying from a dealer / breeder and ask yourself.



1.  How can he not know how to tie up
2.  knowing there were gaps in the education
3.  running through fencing

 Sorry but for me that smells  fishy.



A lot of dealers lie about why horses come to them  etc.  Look at that horse last year that was found to have been sold on as a quiet hack when actually the records showed it should have been pts for being  a fruit loop.

 Not saying this horse is, but I would  always now say can i try her for a week to see  if we are compatible.   If there are freezemarks I would get those checked also microchip find out any history.  Horses will panic but this instance I feel its too extreme to be a one off.  Something just does not sit right switching horses should not IMO have that catastrophic and reaction.    Thank god no innocent driver etc was involved,  I mean this horse obviously has some issues.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Have spoken to BHS they have advised speaking to my home insurance to see if i would be covered for legal expenses .


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

thanks for the advice. i did ask for a trial and was told no because of ' diseases ' that might be brought back to his farm because they dont vaccinate any of their horses. hes not chipped or freezemarked. 

my worry with this is he could seriously hurt someone. arguably, though any horse could hurt anyone but this behaviour is extreme even for a young/green horse. i will give him the benefit of the doubt in any case.


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

I'm  assuming that your gping to get the vet to give him the once over tomorrow - so I'd get a blood test too. 

I'm glad you're feeling a bit better.


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## Goldenstar (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Have spoken to BHS they have advised speaking to my home insurance to see if i would be covered for legal expenses .
		
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I hope you are because it could quickly cost the value of the horse .
Do get his eyes checked .


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## MadBlackLab (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			thanks for the advice. i did ask for a trial and was told no because of ' diseases ' that might be brought back to his farm because they dont vaccinate any of their horses. hes not chipped or freezemarked.
		
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This rings warning bells to me


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## L&M (11 November 2013)

I am very sorry to hear that you, and the horse, have had such a scare.

I have been in a similiar situation with a very neurotic 7yr old and I tried to be patient, sent him to pro's, spent a fortune on vet/saddle/back checks etc, for him to then climb over the partion in a blind panic and come out of the back doors of our 3.5t lorry - at that stage I decided that enough was enough.

I did briefly consider pts but after a good amount of soul searching came to the conclusion that he was not a 'bad' horse - just him and I combined was a big mistake. He was advertised as an experineced hunter and 'made' horse but was actually as green as a 4yr old according to the person I sent him to for schooling, and had very little experience of the world. Therefore I was expecting too much for him and putting him in situations he couldn't cope with, hence the behaviour.

After the lorry incident, I posted a very honest advert and sold him to a hugely experienced home, who were made fully aware of his issues. I lost a huge amount of money on him, but the downward spiral was going to end in disaster for either me or the horse, or possibly both!

Can I ask if this horse is insured as whatever you decide to do, you need to be covered for any eventuality.

The other thing I would question is whether you can return him - at the end of the day a breeder is not necessarily a 'dealer' and may be a case of 'buyer beware'. I contacted the previuos owners of my 7 yr old and they did not want to know either.......

I have huge sympathy for you and good luck, and keep us updated.


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## maisie06 (11 November 2013)

I think for the sake of a grand I would just PTS. There is something they are not telling you, and the fact he lifts his legs to you and swings his backside on you speaks volumes too. When I bought my youngster he had a shaky start but his temprement was there and he has never once lifted a leg despite being very suspicious of people, he is now turning into a lovely all rounder. 

Even if you find a problem such as eyes if you don't have the finances to get it sorted it's not even as if he would make a safe companion, and being shut in all the time is unfair on him. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

the only way i would sell him on or give him away would be to someone who had the facilities to keep him in = ie 12 ft hedging as post and rail does not stop him once hes panicking. and someone who was seriously at the top of their game re problem horses. 

According to BHS yes a breeder is a business - they are also listed in their breed directory and also some other websites as a breeder. they also appear to sell rabbits and dogs. i dont believe for a minute it is a private sale. Maybe someone from the breeders forum can come and shed some light.


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## Cinnamontoast (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			thanks for the advice. i did ask for a trial and was told no because of ' diseases ' that might be brought back to his farm because they dont vaccinate any of their horses. hes not chipped or freezemarked. 

my worry with this is he could seriously hurt someone. arguably, though any horse could hurt anyone but this behaviour is extreme even for a young/green horse. i will give him the benefit of the doubt in any case.
		
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Also speak to your credit card providers to see if they could fund any legal action. (Don't ask, just something I heard about from a solicitor in that they'll fund your insurance/compensation/small claims claim)


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

its so hard to know what to do that is for the best. One minute i can see a spark of potential. he was very quiet and sweet and let me cuddle his head tonight hes obviously exhausted though.  one minute he seems like a donkey, the next hes acting like a unhandled 3 year old. he doesnt know me and its all ver new and scary and like i said, i can understand and see his fear and  dont blame him. But on the other hand that was *extreme* and my gut says he will do it again. and i cant stress how lucky he was not to be hurt or killed or kill someone else today. And given the breeders suspicious behavior, comments on FB  and refusal to have anything further to do with him makes me think hes had this problem already. I was looking for a project but wanted a safe project, i have dogs and children here and i cant afford any animal or person to get hurt. im in my thirties, i have a mortgage and not interested in nutters. i explained all of this to the breeder. She assured me he was safe to handle and ride. i will give him a chance and throw everything i can at it, i just dont have a good feeling about it (((( But for the moment he is here, i will keep working with him until a) he improves b)the breeder does the right thing and takes him back or c) he displays more extreme dangerous behavior which will mean PTS. I hope against hope it will not be C.


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## ILuvCowparsely (11 November 2013)

I had a livery here  a few years back. One of the  2 horses in my lifetime I would gladly say the best option was PTS.  This particular one lunged at you swung his quarters on you lashed out with his back legs, and if you were not paying attention while you skipped out would reverse into you and double barrel you.   He did this to the sharer once they had to have one person to pull him away and the other to rescue the sharer or she would have been even more injured or dead.
  When you groomed or put a rug on he would lunge at you with teeth and legs.


   Owner said to me " don't hit him it will make him worse just pinch his skin same if he lifts his legs at you"   At the time I thought (*)&^%$ that I have a yard to run not train your blo0dy horse.  Yes he did lunge at me, gums back teeth open.  Only my bunch of fives collided with his snout, he was taken back, any time he threatens I said  " OH YEA??? want to try again"  He never got close enough only put his ears back and grimaced,  same with his leg he lashed out only I kicked him back, after that I only had to raise my leg when he did and he swiftly put it down each time.   I don't condone kicking or hitting but this horse was an exception to the rules. 

   owner  used to say  "naughty boy don't do that"  so  in reality the horse had no manners taught and I was not going to become a victim of his and be laid up injured and could not do yard.


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## Goldenstar (11 November 2013)

Leviathan said:



			I had a livery here  a few years back. One of the  2 horses in my lifetime I would gladly say the best option was PTS.  This particular one lunged at you swung his quarters on you lashed out with his back legs, and if you were not paying attention while you skipped out would reverse into you and double barrel you.   He did this to the sharer once they had to have one person to pull him away and the other to rescue the sharer or she would have been even more injured or dead.
  When you groomed or put a rug on he would lunge at you with teeth and legs.


   Owner said to me " don't hit him it will make him worse just pinch his skin same if he lifts his legs at you"   At the time I thought (*)&^%$ that I have a yard to run not train your blo0dy horse.  Yes he did lunge at me, gums back teeth open.  Only my bunch of fives collided with his snout, he was taken back, any time he threatens I said  " OH YEA??? want to try again"  He never got close enough only put his ears back and grimaced,  same with his leg he lashed out only I kicked him back, after that I only had to raise my leg when he did and he swiftly put it down each time.   I don't condone kicking or hitting but this horse was an exception to the rules. 

   owner  used to say  "naughty boy don't do that"  so  in reality the horse had no manners taught and I was not going to become a victim of his and be laid up injured and could not do yard.
		
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Don't think punching OP's horse is a great idea.


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## ILuvCowparsely (11 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			Don't think punching OP's horse is a great idea.
		
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I did not say it was, I was talking of this horse a view years back as I described.  Where did I tell the OP to hit her horse????? nowhere you will find.

 I said if you bothered to read my posts

 take bloods
 ask BHS 
 check small claims etc

I merely described this horses case to say there are some horse out there who are fruit loops and dangerous.   Until OP has had the vet out to view and check the horse you cannot categories this particular equine to be dangerous or a fruit loop or in pain or just plain untrained.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (11 November 2013)

amymay said:



			How completely unnecessary.
		
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No.this...



Echo Bravo said:



			Cut your loses and PTS, you have labelled him a bolter so in your mind that is how he will stay.
		
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Is completely unnecessary! Shoot it because she can't handle it, poor horse.


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## ILuvCowparsely (11 November 2013)

Once the OP has checked all her options 

and
 checked her legal options 

 the vet has checked the horse out thoroughly 

 Only then can OP decided what to do with the evidence and information she got from the vet


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

I never said i couldnt handle it, please do read my posts again.  thats the 3rd time youve made assumptions that arent true. Im trying my best to do the right thing here - why the attitude?


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## ridefast (11 November 2013)

The excuse of diseases wouldn't worry me for a stud, but it is a bit feeble as most studs have ways of isolating new horses to make sure mares don't pick up anything. It sounds like there's something wrong with this horse and PTS would not be a bad choice. I worked on a stud that sold several older horses, having got to the stage where nothing had sold as foals for several years so they realised they had to back and sell their horses ranging from 4 - 6 year olds, none of them had left the farm before but all went happily and none panicked in new homes and bolted... Yes the electric may have scared him, yes there may have been too much change for a horse with a sheltered life but I would expect him to maybe run around, not break through fencing and run for miles. And being a project isn't an excuse either, project to me would mean there was problems with handling or riding but to just be loose in a field, that's not a project issue, sounds more like a not quite right in the head issue.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Thank you ridefast, this is exactly my worry. As a project that had never been away from home before i expected problems - the lifting the leg and kicking the dog and being difficult to catch i put down to this but to smash through 5 fences and gallop for 5 miles away from his 'buddies' with no sense of self-preservation thats what is worrying me.


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## Turks (11 November 2013)

OP - I feel your pain and think you have been completely sensible about this throughout.

As far as I am concerned horses generally have their "thing" that they do when they're upset/frightened - be that rear, bolt, buck. Bolting - proper bolting - is one of the scariest in my mind. Its scarier because it tends to involve a threat to others as well. I agree that some bolting is more extreme than others and this was massively extreme and the fear is that it will be extreme bolting that he resorts to again if he's upset. 

I think a bit more time might help you work out what to do for the best. 

Please keep us posted.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			I never said i couldnt handle it, please do read my posts again.  thats the 3rd time youve made assumptions that arent true. Im trying my best to do the right thing here - why the attitude?
		
Click to expand...

So you either don't want to sort it, or you can't but either way you seem to be making a bit of a big deal out of this...a very nervy naive horse, upset routine, touches elec fence be use he isn't used to it and bolts because he has no idea which way home is , gets chased down in a car and kicks out and you want to pts. It's in no way the horses fault.

Give someone a chance to sort him out fgs. There are plenty who will do it but don't expect them to pay for the pleasure!


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## Tiddlypom (11 November 2013)

Prince33Sp4rkle, please drop the unpleasant, superior, dismissive tone. I fail to see how this is helping the OP after a very unpleasant experience.


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## justabob (11 November 2013)

Dreadful experience for you, I am sure that you are more than capable of handling a tricky horse. I would give him a few days in a controlled environment and see how he behaves and go from there. Out of interest what breed is he?


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Erm. horse was turned out with electric fencing at the breeders. im sorry if you missed that post. and yes i am making a big deal of a horse that put myself, and the general public in danger. we didnt chase him in the car we stayed back until safe to overtake and try to stop him. never said it wasnt a nervy situation for him. and for the 3rd time, noone said it was the horses fault. i did say that in my original post :/ 

I dont expect anyone to pay to sort him out and ive already said the money isnt the point. I will do what i can to sort him out, BUT i have a legal responsibility to keep him safe from the public and myself from injury. 

I am wondering if you have ever dealt with specific situation ( horse bolting down the road ) and what  you did differently.


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## justabob (11 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Erm. horse was turned out with electric fencing at the breeders. im sorry if you missed that post. and yes i am making a big deal of a horse that put myself, and the general public in danger. we didnt chase him in the car we stayed back until safe to overtake and try to stop him. never said it wasnt a nervy situation for him. and for the 3rd time, noone said it was the horses fault. i did say that in my original post :/ 

I dont expect anyone to pay to sort him out and ive already said the money isnt the point. I will do what i can to sort him out, BUT i have a legal responsibility to keep him safe from the public and myself from injury. 

I am wondering if you have ever dealt with specific situation ( horse bolting down the road ) and what  you did differently.
		
Click to expand...

Oh she would have put another rug on. Take no notice OP.


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## Spot_the_Risk (11 November 2013)

OP, you sound like you have a good handle on what's going on and that you'll do the right thing by the horse, whatever that ends up being.  Stay safe, both you and the horse.


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## digitalangel (11 November 2013)

Yes poor horse. poor horse that he didnt have the anyone to spend the time with him and educate him correctly. poor horse that was backed and thrown in a field and only brought in to ride and never taken out. poor horse that was left until he was 7 to be sold. poor horse that has not had the right education on the ground. poor horse that has not had a lot of human contact. Poor horse that has come to me and gotten a big nasty fright. 

We ask horses every day to react to new situations, first time out hacking, first time moving yards, first time meeting new field buddies, first time in new school, first time being led and handled, first time in lorry, first time being tied up, first time out hunting, first time meeting dogs, first time at X or Y venue. Yes horses can react in new situations and get frightened, and it would be unrealistic not to expect that. But the extremity of the reaction is the issue here. And if i did manage to turn him around, what would happen when it came time to sell? The same could happen. Can i keep him forever? probably not, he wasnt bought with that purpose in mind. So what is fair on him? Giving him a chance now and the next unfamiliar situation where he has a fright he ends up under a lorrys wheels? 

Its VERY upsetting situation to be in. and i feel for the horse as NONE of this is his fault.


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## Goldenstar (11 November 2013)

Calm down you have had a fright, but you bought a seven yo cheap project horse homebreds need to treated with caution when they move home for the first time and moving a seven yo who has done and seen very little always potentially harder.
Yes we ask horses to do all these scary things and usually all goes well sometimes as in your case it goes wrong sometimes that happens but even if stuff goes wrong the vast majority of the horses will go on to be fine.
Go to bed have a good sleep and start again tomorrow.


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## MiniMilton (11 November 2013)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			So you either don't want to sort it, or you can't but either way you seem to be making a bit of a big deal out of this...
		
Click to expand...

Well yes, a horse potentially killing a bunch of people in a car, or cars. That's rather a big deal in my book.


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## lastchancer (11 November 2013)

Was he definitely bred by the guy you bought him off? Just wondering if he's a seasoned  problem horse that they've stitched you up with. Most breeders would at least have the sense to teach a horse to tie-up before breaking it in... 
Although if he's 7yo and never been off the farm that could perhaps explain some behavior but bolting away from other horses does certainly seem extreme. 
Not got much to suggest really but good look with him in any case.


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## JellyBeanSkittle (11 November 2013)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			So you either don't want to sort it, or you can't but either way you seem to be making a bit of a big deal out of this...a very nervy naive horse, upset routine, touches elec fence be use he isn't used to it and bolts because he has no idea which way home is , gets chased down in a car and kicks out and you want to pts. It's in no way the horses fault.

Give someone a chance to sort him out fgs. There are plenty who will do it but don't expect them to pay for the pleasure!
		
Click to expand...

Oh shut up you silly mare! Always one who want to make an argument of it...

Hope you are okay OP and this situation sorts itself out for the best, for the both of you.


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## DragonSlayer (12 November 2013)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			So you either don't want to sort it, or you can't but either way you seem to be making a bit of a big deal out of this...a very nervy naive horse, upset routine, touches elec fence be use he isn't used to it and bolts because he has no idea which way home is , gets chased down in a car and kicks out and you want to pts. It's in no way the horses fault.

Give someone a chance to sort him out fgs. There are plenty who will do it but don't expect them to pay for the pleasure!
		
Click to expand...

I seriously think that if I had a new horse that ran through my fencing and onto the motorway, I'd be asking a few questions. It's not just the horse here, people could have been killed. 

Give the OP a break, we all know there are marvellous horsey people about, and all the OP is doing is grasping options, even the most brilliant owners and riders would be shaken by this I'm sure!


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

I just went back and reread the thread - and ive seen there are aload of posts/questions i missed. 

- the breed is appaloosa. 

I do believe the passport matches the horse, he is registered with british appaloosa society and has a picture in is passport which looks like him ( tho hard to tell, he is a fewspot ) the markings from what ive been able to see on his description do match up. I dont know if he has been sold  or tried to be sold on before. I dont know when he was gelded - the passport is stamped gelded without a date. No riggish behavior he showed no interest in my mare so far. 

i do have a receipt which i says ' sold as tried, not seen traffic' but i didnt get to see him in the field as both times i arrived he was already in. Having looked online at my home insurance i think their legal cover will cover this and is included as standard. So i will be persuing this route. I dont believe having stepped back and looked at the facts that they have been honest. Neither their sob story about downsizing/too many horses due to illness, or the diseases thing is now making sense because i remember now there being a new pony there yesterday. 

The last horse i bought reared vertical the first time i tried to get on him in his new home - he took time to settle but i got help and took him back to baby basics and he was fine after a few weeks - i bought from a dealer who was very shocked and offered to take im back straight away but i decided i would give him the benefit of the doubt. I sold him being completely honest in that he was slightly cold-backed and would need time to settle in a new home. I had a 3 year old fresh off the boat from Holland that ran me into fences and had me off more times that i can count. He wasnt great with electric either but he was running to horses, not away from them. i bought him as a project and sold him on 6 months later to an amazing home.  So its not like i havent worked through these types of issues before. I have also in the past over-horsed myself and cut my losses and sold the mare on after 9 months of trying and we just didnt click. That was a while ago now though. I also mentioned before i had a horse that would bolt when being led, but again, not through fencing and always had some self-preservation. I worked through her issues too and while never completely cured her behavior did improve. I swapped her for my old girl. My old boy ( in my sig ) had a year out of work and was a nightmare to start again with. Again i realised when i needed help, and got some help with him and he turned out completely fine. My PSD boy when i first moved to my current place also reared vertical the first time i asked him to hack. I sat it and had him walk on with someone on the floor to give him confidence. I later found out this behavior was more likely pain related and is now being dealt with.

Have i made mistakes in the past? Yup. Do i have gaps in my knowledge of equine behavior? Certainly. I try to draw on my own past experiences, advice from trusted friends, other peoples stories and experiences and most of know my limits. This little guy is way out there in terms of my personal experience. His bolting is extreme and he did not want me near him. He tolerates me in the stable because he cant run. In the cold light of day, do i have the time, facilities and experience to help him? i am not sure. I am not sure if i can help him if this behavior is already ingrained - to quote a certain youtube horse person, i felt he had executed the bolt program in his head and he wasn't going to stop for anyone. google maps told me he galloped on the road for 5.6 miles. I only caught him by boxing him in on other traffic and taking a bit risk with the kind ladys car door and a divebomb. I dont think theres any malice in this horse and i am not going to judge him based on one day but things are starting to add up. He ran from the horses here, he ran straight past horses in other fields, he just ran ran ran and i dont think he ran for home, as he travelled around 30 miles. i think he was in a blind bolt. Yes he got a fright, yes its all new and he was in no doubt very scared and i dont know if it was the electric or something else that upset him or maybe it was the fact he fell over i dont know. but i cant trust him to turn him out right now, i will continue to work with him while hes here in the stable of maybe my turnout pen. I hope the above proves to any doubters out there that if i do work through issues if i feel i have the time and skills to do so, and when i cant, admit it, cut losses and do the right thing by the horse. I have never had to face the issue of putting an otherwise healthy horse to sleep due to behavior issues. 

I want him to go somewhere where he is safe and happy, which at the moment is where he came from. I dont think he is safe or happy here. I worry that at 7 years old he will be able to completely forget this behavior and become a safe horse. I feel the breeders of this horse kind of set him up to fail, and i think they should take responsibility for this. I would hope they keep him for themselves to ride and bring on or work through his issues in a safe place where he feels secure. I hope they would not shoot him, he is too nice for that. 

I desperately want to turn this little guy around, but giving him the benefit of the doubt could mean that next time there could be a terrible accident. And i would be responsible for that. If i sold him on, even to a knowledgeable home, that does not guarantee his future at any point and again if he was faced with a situation where he was scared, the same could happen and he could kill someone. And i would be irresponsible for selling on a dangerous horse. How many times does a horse have to endanger the public at large before he is labelled dangerous and a bolter? Am i irresponsible if i try to turn him out here again and the same thing happens, despite working with him and giving him lots of positive experiences/groundwork. Im only looking at worst case scanario because the consequences are so dire. He could never do it again or he could do it tomorrow, theres no way of telling. 

My heart is breaking, ive spent the evening on and off bawling my eyes out. Im sorry for rambling on, but my animals mean the world to me.


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			All horses have it in them to bolt they are flight animals .
I frankly think its ludricous to label a horse that done this as some sort of dangerous nutter on its first move from home it was over faced and panicked .
		
Click to expand...

   OMG ALL HORSES BOLT DO THEY.
Thats rich extend the same curtisy to maise o6 then.And to me
Dont say different situation All horses bolt you say. Yeah so i say
find out why a sweetheart suddenly bolts. What a contradiction
LMAO


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

annagain said:



			I think I'd be inclined to just take him back with no warning and leave him there - providing you can get in there to do it and it's not all locked up. Did you notice what the setup was when you were there? You can then start on getting your money back. I would feel a bit guilty about doing that to him, and it's probably not the right thing to do legally, but if they refuse to do the right thing I don't see what else you can do? 

If I'd bred him, had him for 7 years and knew that he was so upset going somewhere new I'd want him back for his sake, so there's obviously something fishy going on. 

In the meantime, definitely get him on sedalin.
		
Click to expand...

Good for you .Fishy too.


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

Polos Mum said:



			OP don't get me wrong the right thing doesn't have to be PTS, it could be months of careful handling and education or vet investigations (v poor sight might make a horse run through fencing) but IMHO the breeder should have done this.

When I compare to the lovely Dolly who was brought up by first time foal owners and looks to be a pleasure to own it's a shame all breeders don;t put the same investment in early education!
		
Click to expand...

Poor sight may make horse bolt .Not according to some.Health
problems should always be ruled out to be fair to the horse.


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## smellsofhorse (12 November 2013)

Although you say you compete and should be experinced you sound out of your depth and inexperineced.

I know this is an extreme reaction.
But you cant blame the horse, its young not done much, in a new home and with new people.

You cant give up this easily.

If you were experince you should have given the horse more tests and checks.
Was it vetted?
Surely you would have realised how unhandled it was?
Plus and issues physically or mentally would have been picked up.

Poor horse needs starting from the begining, let it settle, get the ground work sorted before thinking of riding.


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

goldenstar said:



			just keep him very calm and level and establish roultine that does not change .
Try and team up with your most level headed horse and put them out in a small paddock while you are there .
Just give him hay .
Establish handling time daily and do it at the same time .
Get his eyesight checked pronto .
I have know one horse whose bizarre behaviour was caused by a floating cataract .
Be careful hope your feeling better tonight .
		
Click to expand...

   really


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

lastchancer said:



			Was he definitely bred by the guy you bought him off? Just wondering if he's a seasoned  problem horse that they've stitched you up with. Most breeders would at least have the sense to teach a horse to tie-up before breaking it in... 
Although if he's 7yo and never been off the farm that could perhaps explain some behavior but bolting away from other horses does certainly seem extreme. 
Not got much to suggest really but good look with him in any case.
		
Click to expand...

seasoned problem you say
oh like behaviour problems ,say like old horses get when they are diagnosed
with chushings which can be treated.Also floating cateracts like
Goldenstar suggested that can cause bolting this may help
maise 06 to.LMAO.


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## smellsofhorse (12 November 2013)

Just to add, is there a reason the breeder hasnt done much with him?
He is 7 and hardly handled or is there some other issue?


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			I just went back and reread the thread - and ive seen there are aload of posts/questions i missed. 

- the breed is appaloosa. 

I do believe the passport matches the horse, he is registered with british appaloosa society and has a picture in is passport which looks like him ( tho hard to tell, he is a fewspot ) the markings from what ive been able to see on his description do match up. I dont know if he has been sold  or tried to be sold on before. I dont know when he was gelded - the passport is stamped gelded without a date. No riggish behavior he showed no interest in my mare so far. 

i do have a receipt which i says ' sold as tried, not seen traffic' but i didnt get to see him in the field as both times i arrived he was already in. Having looked online at my home insurance i think their legal cover will cover this and is included as standard. So i will be persuing this route. I dont believe having stepped back and looked at the facts that they have been honest. Neither their sob story about downsizing/too many horses due to illness, or the diseases thing is now making sense because i remember now there being a new pony there yesterday. 

The last horse i bought reared vertical the first time i tried to get on him in his new home - he took time to settle but i got help and took him back to baby basics and he was fine after a few weeks - i bought from a dealer who was very shocked and offered to take im back straight away but i decided i would give him the benefit of the doubt. I sold him being completely honest in that he was slightly cold-backed and would need time to settle in a new home. I had a 3 year old fresh off the boat from Holland that ran me into fences and had me off more times that i can count. He wasnt great with electric either but he was running to horses, not away from them. i bought him as a project and sold him on 6 months later to an amazing home.  So its not like i havent worked through these types of issues before. I have also in the past over-horsed myself and cut my losses and sold the mare on after 9 months of trying and we just didnt click. That was a while ago now though. I also mentioned before i had a horse that would bolt when being led, but again, not through fencing and always had some self-preservation. I worked through her issues too and while never completely cured her behavior did improve. I swapped her for my old girl. My old boy ( in my sig ) had a year out of work and was a nightmare to start again with. Again i realised when i needed help, and got some help with him and he turned out completely fine. My PSD boy when i first moved to my current place also reared vertical the first time i asked him to hack. I sat it and had him walk on with someone on the floor to give him confidence. I later found out this behavior was more likely pain related and is now being dealt with.

Have i made mistakes in the past? Yup. Do i have gaps in my knowledge of equine behavior? Certainly. I try to draw on my own past experiences, advice from trusted friends, other peoples stories and experiences and most of know my limits. This little guy is way out there in terms of my personal experience. His bolting is extreme and he did not want me near him. He tolerates me in the stable because he cant run. In the cold light of day, do i have the time, facilities and experience to help him? i am not sure. I am not sure if i can help him if this behavior is already ingrained - to quote a certain youtube horse person, i felt he had executed the bolt program in his head and he wasn't going to stop for anyone. google maps told me he galloped on the road for 5.6 miles. I only caught him by boxing him in on other traffic and taking a bit risk with the kind ladys car door and a divebomb. I dont think theres any malice in this horse and i am not going to judge him based on one day but things are starting to add up. He ran from the horses here, he ran straight past horses in other fields, he just ran ran ran and i dont think he ran for home, as he travelled around 30 miles. i think he was in a blind bolt. Yes he got a fright, yes its all new and he was in no doubt very scared and i dont know if it was the electric or something else that upset him or maybe it was the fact he fell over i dont know. but i cant trust him to turn him out right now, i will continue to work with him while hes here in the stable of maybe my turnout pen. I hope the above proves to any doubters out there that if i do work through issues if i feel i have the time and skills to do so, and when i cant, admit it, cut losses and do the right thing by the horse. I have never had to face the issue of putting an otherwise healthy horse to sleep due to behavior issues. 

I want him to go somewhere where he is safe and happy, which at the moment is where he came from. I dont think he is safe or happy here. I worry that at 7 years old he will be able to completely forget this behavior and become a safe horse. I feel the breeders of this horse kind of set him up to fail, and i think they should take responsibility for this. I would hope they keep him for themselves to ride and bring on or work through his issues in a safe place where he feels secure. I hope they would not shoot him, he is too nice for that. 

I desperately want to turn this little guy around, but giving him the benefit of the doubt could mean that next time there could be a terrible accident. And i would be responsible for that. If i sold him on, even to a knowledgeable home, that does not guarantee his future at any point and again if he was faced with a situation where he was scared, the same could happen and he could kill someone. And i would be irresponsible for selling on a dangerous horse. How many times does a horse have to endanger the public at large before he is labelled dangerous and a bolter? Am i irresponsible if i try to turn him out here again and the same thing happens, despite working with him and giving him lots of positive experiences/groundwork. Im only looking at worst case scanario because the consequences are so dire. He could never do it again or he could do it tomorrow, theres no way of telling. 

My heart is breaking, ive spent the evening on and off bawling my eyes out. Im sorry for rambling on, but my animals mean the world to me.
		
Click to expand...

Op i dont think you will ever have a bond with this horse.You will never be relaxed I am sorry what has happened but to pts this horse
is a disgrace.Whats more of a disgrace is you being told  in this state and people saying it may be seasonal changes
Floating cateracts .When i offered the same advice to a women with a old horse a sweet heart who had started to bolt the same advice
They were saying pts.While telling you not to.This is not right bolting is bolting total hipercrites .My point being you are in a vunerable place and i think these people are not qualified to answer you
Some have come up with good points I think you are out of your depth in allsorts of ways. But be safe and good luck xx


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## quirky (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			Op i dont think you will ever have a bond with this horse.You will never be relaxed I am sorry what has happened but to pts this horse
is a disgrace.Whats more of a disgrace is you being told  in this state and people saying it may be seasonal changes
Floating cateracts .When i offered the same advice to a women with a old horse a sweet heart who had started to bolt the same advice
They were saying pts.While telling you not to.This is not right bolting is bolting total hipercrites .My point being you are in a vunerable place and i think these people are not qualified to answer you
Some have come up with good points I think you are out of your depth in allsorts of ways. But be safe and good luck xx
		
Click to expand...

So Lizbet, enlighten us all and tell us how you are qualified for your response to be the only correct one?
You are doing yourself no favours by peppering certain threads with your inane ramblings.
Try coming up with something constructive!*


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## hairycob (12 November 2013)

If I were OP I think I would be trying to find out where either Princ33sSp4rkle or Lizbet lived & working out how best to get the horse to them.


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## 5bs (12 November 2013)

Very well said hairycob I know what I would be doing with horse as you know I have a daughter who was very lucky to walk away from a true bolt.


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## twiggy2 (12 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			Calm down you have had a fright, but you bought a seven yo cheap project horse homebreds need to treated with caution when they move home for the first time and moving a seven yo who has done and seen very little always potentially harder.
Yes we ask horses to do all these scary things and usually all goes well sometimes as in your case it goes wrong sometimes that happens but even if stuff goes wrong the vast majority of the horses will go on to be fine.
Go to bed have a good sleep and start again tomorrow.
		
Click to expand...

this


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## DragonSlayer (12 November 2013)

hairycob said:



			If I were OP I think I would be trying to find out where either Princ33sSp4rkle or Lizbet lived & working out how best to get the horse to them.
		
Click to expand...

This absolutely!


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## thatsmygirl (12 November 2013)

Have u read my post op? My horse done the same and actually ran back to her old home!!!


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## Luci07 (12 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			This absolutely!
		
Click to expand...

Another one who agrees!

Something else that would also now really worry me...insurance ...OP do you have 3rd party liability for this horse ? As you would be liable (and by this I mean financially as you are clearly aware and concerned about others safety). However, I do wonder if this is a known and documented issue if insurance would cover you?  I feel for you as a horse that behaves like this would be out of our area of experience of most of us. It's not simply a case of building a bond and making a pet out of this horse, there are clearly serious issues. I would start with blood tests and vet, I would look at seriously upping the fencing to stallion standard. Then go back to basics and start to reback and fill the gaps in his education, but above all... Please stay safe, put yourself first and I wish you every luck


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Hope everything goes ok today OP.  I'm sure we'll all be thinking of you.


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

hairycob said:



			If I were OP I think I would be trying to find out where either Princ33sSp4rkle or Lizbet lived & working out how best to get the horse to them.
		
Click to expand...

 well we could not do much worse than
some of you lot on hear could we. That poor girl being in your hands.And some really nice people nice
on hear to.Least me and this person are honest.Not two faced
hipercrites like some of you . And dont threaten me    quirky   for proving these people to be the 
hipercrites they are.Some people take advice seriously that is given to them
I wont put up with people giving me s***.When iam trying to help
I have been there done that got the T shirt. Not some no it all kid


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## Carefreegirl (12 November 2013)

Morning OP, hope your knee is ok today and hope you had a good nights sleep.

Hopefully things will be a bit clearer today.

P.S How's your dog?


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## Carefreegirl (12 November 2013)

Hypocrites :wink3:


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			well we could not do much worse than
some of you lot on hear could we. That poor girl being in your hands.And some really nice people nice
on hear to.Least me and this person are honest.Not two faced
hipercrites like some of you . And dont threaten me    quirky   for proving these people to be the 
hipercrites they are.Some people take advice seriously that is given to them
I wont put up with people giving me s***.When iam trying to help
I have been there done that got the T shirt. Not some no it all kid
		
Click to expand...

Hey, where's all this aggression come from?  And I fail to see how Quirky has 'threatened' you.

Please Lizbet - if you want to say something, do.  But don't attack people for having a different opinion from you.

It would also help enormously if you could actually string a sentence together.  

Now, I have to say you remind me of someone.  Just got to get those little grey cells in gear to figure out exactly who.

Christ there's some nutters posting this week.


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## Echo Bravo (12 November 2013)

Agree with Amymay, there are some nutters posting this week and it's making my eyes hurt trying to read their posts. Hope the OP's knee and dog ok this morning, and that the horse is ok as well.


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## Captainmouse (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			I am now wondering wether he was drugged but i dont think so, but i cant be sure. who knows. he wasnt that calm when i was there but wasnt exhibiting fearful behavior either. Since having him home hes turned his bum to me a few times, kicked the dog and raised his leg to me once or twice. i put all of this down to being in a new home/new situation and wasnt worried about it. just thought i would work more on handling on the ground. i didnt expect him to be OK when he got here, i expected problems hence him being a project - but i didnt not expect him to go through 5 sets of fencing either.
		
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Did you have him vetted? bloods taken?  there is always project horses.


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Captainmouse said:



			Did you have him vetted? bloods taken?  there is always project horses.
		
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OP said earlier in the thread that the horse was not vetted as it was so cheap.

However, a few have suggested a blood test today to see if any drugs show up.  

Might be worth a go OP - especially if you are planning on a light sedation before turning out.


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## quirky (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			And dont threaten me    quirky
		
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Deluded?
Much!


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## cornbrodolly (12 November 2013)

So sorry you re in this situation, and hope you feel better soon.
 It reminds me of a couple of horses we ve had. One took 6 months for my OH to retrain , but OH is aprofessional and could consistantly work every day with the horse.[ when we first put him in the field he bolted and went over a 5 bar gate!] he is now doing Medium dressage , but is too quirky for much else! 
We also have had 2 'to fix' who bolted when ridden . They were retrained , but never would be sitable for anay but the boldest rider. A habit of bolting can never really be cured - can be managed , but the underlying habit will usually resurface at some point.
IMHO this is a dangerous horse, and not worth persisting with. Send back immediately - if they say no, just drive him there and leave. There is no way the previous owners didnt know what this horse is like, and were less than honest with you. Cut your losses - your health is more important than anything else. I have said it a hundred times on this forum -no horse is worth putting yourself in danger . Seems there are lots of 'fluffy bunnies' on the forum ,whi believe every horse is fixable and should live out its natural life.  Boldocks to that - yes if the horse has given a lifetime of good service, but no if the owner/rider is in danger of losing life/limb/sanity.


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

Why would you want to pay for a blood test for a horse it is obvious you dont want to keep
Poor girl take no  notice take horse back. Nutters they are


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## w1bbler (12 November 2013)

Op, firstly good luck. If the horse stays with u check your insurance situation - if it happened again they could say you were aware of the problem & not cover you.
If you send him back, although you may get your money back some other poor soul may get sold the same problem.
Horses get PTS for all sorts of reasons & if you went down this route is it really so bad, the horse doesn't think about its future & there are enough unwanted horses.
To all the critics, really, would you not expect a new horse to be able to stay in a field with a quite companion, its the first thing I've done with any new horse & never had a problem.


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## Flame_ (12 November 2013)

I wouldn't blame you if you just pts OP, at least that way you know for a fact its not going to happen again, no one's going to get hurt and the horse won't have to go though the fear again. 

While I'd be inclined to persevere, especially since when the horse went it wasn't being worked with or restrained, it was just loose to react itself into a total panic, the sellers' attitudes do make me think that if they're that glad to see the back of it for not very much money its probably got some very big problems.


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			Why would you want to pay for a blood test for a horse it is obvious you dont want to keep
Poor girl take no  notice take horse back. Nutters they are
		
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I have never said this about anyone on the forum before but you girl ,are rude and not a positive addition to the forum.
I have never put anyone on user ignore but now I think I understand what that function is for.


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			I have never said this about anyone on the forum before but you girl ,are rude and not a positive addition to the forum.
I have never but anyone on user ignore but now I think I understand what that function is for.
		
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It's just such a shame to derail what is an interesting thread (please don't take that the wrong way OP).


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## DanceswithCows (12 November 2013)

Terrifying experience, the stuff of nightmares.  But, I think you'll be lucky to get your money back!  It's pretty obvious they've just dumped a problem.  Don't stop trying, but don't bank on it.  At the moment, it's the shock talking, and while I'm the first to put down animals that are more problem than fun (sorry fluffy peeps!), I really think this guy deserves the benefit of the doubt after a day/few days.  For now I'd just bung him somewhere he can stay for a while, a few weeks at least, and do nothing with him.  I would even be tempted to give him the winter off and come back to him in spring when he's well used to the new yard, and then pretend he's not broken at all and start from the beginning.  

I have an appaloosa too and she was a bit of a nightmare when she first arrived, but a few months on she's a different animal.  'They' say appaloosas have to get to know you and I very much get that impression!


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			I have never said this about anyone on the forum before but you girl ,are rude and not a positive addition to the forum.
I have never but anyone on user ignore but now I think I understand what that function is for.
		
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 Exactly how  you treated me on PTS behaviour problems when i was trying to help maise 06 as newcomer to horse and hound . Attacking my spelling . My opioin My advice .You Lastchaner anymay quirky hairycob loads of them Go bloody read
and get of my back.You are a disgrace babies and dont like it when
its done to you. You should be ashamed of yourseves if this is how
you treat newcomers to horse and hound well i wont put up with it.


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

DA I am thinking about you today let us know later how you have are.


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Bye, bye then.


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			Exactly how  you treated me on PTS behaviour problems when i was trying to help maise 06 as newcomer to horse and hound . Attacking my spelling . My opioin My advice .You Lastchaner anymay quirky hairycob loads of them Go bloody read
and get of my back.You are a disgrace babies and dont like it when
its done to you. You should be ashamed of yourseves if this is how
you treat newcomers to horse and hound well i wont put up with it.
		
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You find where I had a go at your spelling looking that will keep you busy for a while . 
I am highly unlikely to be ashamed of my self as I am not the one name calling and being aggressive .


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## Echo Bravo (12 November 2013)

Won't put up with what Lizbet, we've had to put up with your bad manners, swearing and so far we've been very nice to you. So what you going to do click the heels of your red shoes and puff us bad witchs are gone, go and sit down have a hot choccy and think about your attitude.


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## Shysmum (12 November 2013)

Lizbet, I have mentioned you to admin. This is perhaps not the right forum for you. Go figure.

PS - OP - hope you are ok today. x


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## Meowy Catkin (12 November 2013)

Digitalangel - i hope your knee is OK and that your horse is settled and calm.  



PS, is it awful that I wonder what Lizbet's feelings towards ragwort are?


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (12 November 2013)

hairycob said:



			If I were OP I think I would be trying to find out where either Princ33sSp4rkle or Lizbet lived & working out how best to get the horse to them.
		
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if i wanted another horse for myself(which i dont BTW), its the sort of problem that wouldnt put me off,but i wouldnt be paying much for the pleasure of taking it on. If you asking to send him here for training that is an entirely different matter as i do occasionally take in schooling liveries, and of course you can pm me if you wish to discuss that.



Tiddlypom said:



			Prince33Sp4rkle, please drop the unpleasant, superior, dismissive tone. I fail to see how this is helping the OP after a very unpleasant experience.
		
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people have unpleasant experiences all the time and manage to be rather less dramatic in the solution-horse had a fright, has shown no inclination to repeat this, and should not be PTS just because the OP put him in an unsettling situation too early on and paid the price.



justabob said:



			Oh she would have put another rug on. Take no notice OP.
		
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fortunately the OP does seem more mature than you justabob so im sure she can make up her own mind as to who to listen to without you having to guide her with your 100% unhelpful and unrelated comments.



minimilton said:



			Well yes, a horse potentially killing a bunch of people in a car, or cars. That's rather a big deal in my book.
		
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but again, its not like(for eg) a dangerous dog going for people and trying to bite to kill where its very black and white-the dog means business, the horse got loose on the road through no fault of his own-he got a fright and the fencing couldnt hold him, being chased by a car (albeit i do see this was the only option) would make 99% of horse bolt longer and faster so again not sure how this is the main problem, to my mind the biggest problem is that the horse has not been allowed to settle in to the new yard and routine. The ending up loose on the road is just an unfortunate series of mishaps resulting from the above.

if the breeder will not take the horse back, i think the horse at the very least deserves a second chance before the OP sells him on. Get someone with no emotional involvement to help you, strict routine, firm but fair handling, put him in situations you are able to praise him for making the right choices.

if you cant do it, or dont want to , you will find someone to take him on im sure but dont expect them to pay much.

i repeat, this horse does not deserve PTS just because his people let him down.


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			Agree with Amymay, there are some nutters posting this week and it's making my eyes hurt trying to read their posts. Hope the OP's knee and dog ok this morning, and that the horse is ok as well.
		
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Good morning, knee is purple and stiff but nothing that some painkillers cant sort out. Had the worst nights sleep ever, kept waking up with a fright. Is expected though. Doggy is OK, hes a pug and has a hard head.

The horse is quite riled this morning ( again expected ) I have left him in with hay and water, he tried a bit to barge the door, and also turned his bum to me again when i went to refill water. Ive left his buddy opposite him in a pen so he is close by and my other horse is in on box rest next door to him. Went about everything nicely and calmly am hoping he will settle a bit so i can do some handling in the box with him. No big questions just a bit of a pat and a groom. Just waiting on the farmer to get back to me about fixing the fencing.


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## Shysmum (12 November 2013)

What about trying that Magic Calmer - the wormer type syringe, and then add the powder to the feed ? You have to look after your knee, and can't be doing with a difficult horse atm. x


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## MiniMilton (12 November 2013)

Flame_ said:



			While I'd be inclined to persevere, especially since when the horse went it wasn't being worked with or restrained, it was just loose to react itself into a total panic, the sellers' attitudes do make me think that if they're that glad to see the back of it for not very much money its probably got some very big problems.
		
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To me, going into a blind bolt from a field makes it more of a danger than if it did this while being worked. At least if the horse did it while being worked, you could put the horse out to grass and let it settle, and build up a bond. Bolting from a field is the very worst situation and it leaves OP in the worst possible position. I would imagine extended stabling could make the horse more stressed and reactive. I would be threatening legal action and returning the horse. And printing off the Facebook evidence of the breeder mentioning bolting, even if the horse wasn't specified.

Any reputable breeder would not want a bad name over this and would take the horse back. They are in a position to be able handle the horse more in an environment that it is familiar and then bring it out to see new sights and sounds. This is the only way the horse has a chance


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## maree t (12 November 2013)

I hope you are ok today OP. I hope this poor horse is settling in a bit better and you can see a way forward, whichever way you feel is best to go. 
Can you get some very experienced help in to advise over the next couple of days to try and help you both ? .
As for the attitude by HHO to new posters it all depends on their attitude and behaviour doesnt it


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Good morning, knee is purple and stiff but nothing that some painkillers cant sort out. Had the worst nights sleep ever, kept waking up with a fright. Is expected though. Doggy is OK, hes a pug and has a hard head.

The horse is quite riled this morning ( again expected ) I have left him in with hay and water, he tried a bit to barge the door, and also turned his bum to me again when i went to refill water. Ive left his buddy opposite him in a pen so he is close by and my other horse is in on box rest next door to him. Went about everything nicely and calmly am hoping he will settle a bit so i can do some handling in the box with him. No big questions just a bit of a pat and a groom. Just waiting on the farmer to get back to me about fixing the fencing.
		
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Good lass,
Don't worry about the bum turning stay safe and be aware but he sounds like he's not not very humanised .
Which  in itself is concerning as he's supposed to be Backed and ridden away.
Years ago I worked on a lot with just broken Irish horses they often did bum swinging for a while until they calmed down.
I hope the bun fight is not upsetting you .


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Hes not interested in hard feed basically. NOt even just plain chaff which i offered him this morning. I also have valerien and also syringe calmers to hand. If hes handleable in the stable i will try to get one down his gob as he needs worming anyway. 

I too wonder if the stabling for long periods will stress him out. But at the moment its the safest way to keep him contained. Once hes calm i will try upgrading him to the turnout pen. Let him take it all at his own pace. But this morning, he doesnt want to know me. Its okay im not taking it personally LOL.

I have help, i have an amazing group of people around me. I also have some amazing neighbours who i am going to speak to later on.


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## Patterdale (12 November 2013)

Amymay....she increasingly reminds me of RWJ. But dont think actually her, just similar little expressions. 

OP, hope you're feeling better today. 
Having sat on a true bolter, I can honestly say I can't remember many more frightening things in my life. Mine did work out though...will write it all out when I have a bit of time later


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Good morning, knee is purple and stiff but nothing that some painkillers cant sort out. Had the worst nights sleep ever, kept waking up with a fright. Is expected though. Doggy is OK, hes a pug and has a hard head.

The horse is quite riled this morning ( again expected ) I have left him in with hay and water, he tried a bit to barge the door, and also turned his bum to me again when i went to refill water. Ive left his buddy opposite him in a pen so he is close by and my other horse is in on box rest next door to him. Went about everything nicely and calmly am hoping he will settle a bit so i can do some handling in the box with him. No big questions just a bit of a pat and a groom. Just waiting on the farmer to get back to me about fixing the fencing.
		
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So is the plan to leave him in all day?  Are you getting the vet up to run some bloods?


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Patterdale said:



			Amymay....she increasingly reminds me of RWJ. But dont think actually her, just similar little expressions.
		
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Spot on my friend.  Spot on!


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Also, note i am on the yard on my own a LOT ( something i also told the seller hence needing something safe ) so i am not going to go in all guns blazing, i am going to wait until i am not alone to do a lot of this. If this makes me a wimp so be it, but i dont think its sensible to be handling this horse alone. In any case im letting him dictate the pace of how things go. In the meantime, working and speaking to home insurance people.


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Hi amy, i have called the vet, they are going to come tomorrow.


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## Echo Bravo (12 November 2013)

Good Lord, I hope you don't think I was calling digitalangel a nutter, tis the other one.


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

The plan is to let him dictate the pace. I would like to be able to handle him, and him to be accepting of me in the stable. no big questions, just accept and be calm. I would like to try to move him to the pen ( and put the buddy back in his stable, not take him away ) but he could jump/go through 4ft post and rail if upset so want to make sure hes a bit more settled first.


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			The plan is to let him dictate the pace. I would like to be able to handle him, and him to be accepting of me in the stable. no big questions, just accept and be calm. I would like to try to move him to the pen ( and put the buddy back in his stable, not take him away ) but he could jump/go through 4ft post and rail if upset so want to make sure hes a bit more settled first.
		
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Why can't he go in the pen _with_ his buddy?


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

Shysmum said:



			Lizbet, I have mentioned you to admin. This is perhaps not the right forum for you. Go figure.

PS - OP - hope you are ok today. x
		
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They already know    and Omg have you told on me so another who cant read


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## buddy's mummy (12 November 2013)

I'd be sending the horse straight back to breeder if it were me..I wouldnt be bothering with vets etc, just causing myself more worry, stress and bills!


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

I think your plan is good I am glad the vet is coming .
Can you get a friend to come when you try more difficult things just for a while . The support of someone esle makes you more confident.
I do think it's worth considering sedalin ( or something the vet thinks is better ) in the circumstances so you can get him in the pen for some fresh air and movement .
No sign of lami today is there ?


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Why can't he go in the pen _with_ his buddy?
		
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This would be choice if he's unshod and the buddy is a trustworthy sort this would be a job for Fatty here he taught my TB how to behave and he was nuts in the field.


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			I think your plan is good I am glad the vet is coming .
Can you get a friend to come when you try more difficult things just for a while . The support of someone esle makes you more confident.
I do think it's worth considering sedalin ( or something the vet thinks is better ) in the circumstances so you can get him in the pen for some fresh air and movement .
No sign of lami today is there ?
		
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But she can't sedate today if she wishes bloods to be taken tomorrow........


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## Echo Bravo (12 November 2013)

Put something cold on your knee when you get time to rest it.


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## Circe (12 November 2013)

I really hope that this horse settles when he becomes more comfortable in his new home with you and gets to know you more, but , tbh the lack of self preservation worries me.
Do you have an instructor or professional that you can ask for an honest opinion on the horse?
Do you know anything about his bloodlines? 
the horse world is a small one sometimes, can you ask around and see if you can find out any more about the breeders?
Are you going to get a vet to give him a check over?
Kx
Sorry, lots of questions


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

amymay said:



			But she can't sedate today if she wishes bloods to be taken tomorrow........
		
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I meant leave in today discuss sedation with the vet tomorrow for building up to getting the horse out .


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Ah, righto.


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## Circe (12 November 2013)

Faracat said:



			Digitalangel - i hope your knee is OK and that your horse is settled and calm.  



PS, is it awful that I wonder what Lizbet's feelings towards ragwort are?
		
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Its funny you should ask that.... I was wondering the same myself
Kx


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## julie111 (12 November 2013)

Lizbet, as with all forum you always get cliques and horsey people can be the worse! I have had good advice given to me on here but also people who haven't been very pleasant! 
OP I think you were a little naive in purchasing this horse ( I've been there before). I do hope things get sorted soon for you and the horse!


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Questions are good!

The turnout pen is only really big enough for 1 horse ( its about double stable size )  and while my guy is pretty good with most horses, i think in a confined space like that i might be asking for trouble. I cant monitor all the time so i need to keep him in the safest place for now. I am checking on him when i can but i also have a job to do. I work from home. 

Yes am going to pop next door and speak to them, they are very experienced people especially with unhandled guys. I helped my neighbours rehome around 40 unhandled horses earlier this year after another neighbour had a serious riding accident ( and i  mean a really serious one ) 
I  have his breeding details yes, but google doesnt reveal much.


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Questions are good!

The turnout pen is only really big enough for 1 horse ( its about double stable size )  and while my guy is pretty good with most horses, i think in a confined space like that i might be asking for trouble. I cant monitor all the time so i need to keep him in the safest place for now. I am checking on him when i can but i also have a job to do. I work from home. 

Yes am going to pop next door and speak to them, they are very experienced people especially with unhandled guys. I helped my neighbours rehome around 40 unhandled horses earlier this year after another neighbour had a serious riding accident ( and i  mean a really serious one ) 
I  have his breeding details yes, but google doesnt reveal much.
		
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I glad you access to people who sound like they will be spot on to offer help and support.


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Ah, fair enough digitalangel.


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## WelshD (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			. I helped my neighbours rehome around 40 unhandled horses earlier this year after another neighbour had a serious riding accident ( and i  mean a really serious one )
		
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As a complete aside a friend had four of these horses. You all did an admirable and efficient job of rehoming them


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Thank you WelshD! Another HHO'er had a horse from the same place. Hes done amazing job with his guy  I try to keep in contact with the people who had them ( esp the welsh babies ) and glad to hear they are all doing well in their new homes.


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## ILuvCowparsely (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Questions are good!

The turnout pen is only really big enough for 1 horse ( its about double stable size )  and while my guy is pretty good with most horses, i think in a confined space like that i might be asking for trouble. I cant monitor all the time so i need to keep him in the safest place for now. I am checking on him when i can but i also have a job to do. I work from home. 

Yes am going to pop next door and speak to them, they are very experienced people especially with unhandled guys. I helped my neighbours rehome around 40 unhandled horses earlier this year after another neighbour had a serious riding accident ( and i  mean a really serious one ) 
I  have his breeding details yes, but google doesnt reveal much.
		
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 I agree turning them both out in such a small area  could be a real problem if things got bad.  The other thing can you get your hands on a microchip reader in case he has one??   It  could shed some light if he has an implant and been registered.  Ask the vet to scan him when he comes. 

 I have a microchip reader  which may or may not work on horses, your vet should carry one.  Have you checked also for any tattoo's in his ears, some do brand in strange places.  I presume you know if he has any obvious brand??? silly you would have said.

  Double check his passport  help here  http://blog.equineessentials.org/2013/08/identifying-fake-horse-passports.html


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

julie111 said:



			Lizbet, as with all forum you always get cliques and horsey people can be the worse! I have had good advice given to me on here but also people who haven't been very pleasant! 
OP I think you were a little naive in purchasing this horse ( I've been there before). I do hope things get sorted soon for you and the horse!
		
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Some of the people on hear are so nice and knowledgeable.But the are such stupid
kids in a cliques and others jumping in they cant see the point iam trying to make
When you search the forums thier advice does not make sense and it is dangerous
I have to be rude to make a point and they still dont get it
This girl is so over horsed .now they are telling her to get bloodtest omg thankyou


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## Clodagh (12 November 2013)

For my pennies worth I would try to take him back and if they won't I would have him PTS. You will lose the purchase price, but it will cost you that to keep him over the winter anyway, especially with jabs, teeth, saddle etc., etc.
Life is too short, I doubt any insurance company would cover you as he has done it before so if he killed/crippled someone by running blind you personally could end up liable for the bill. That is absolutely the worst case scenario but it needs to be borne in mind.
My homebred turned into a fruit loop when he went away to be backed, he had never left home before, but he still had self preservation.


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## oysterbay (12 November 2013)

I'm sorry if this has been asked / answered previously - I've not read it all.

Did he have a rug on?  Just that I have seen a 'rug runner' who initially was fine in one, then when something startled him totally panicked.  He then bolted blindly, and it was terrifying to watch.  You can imagine it from their point of view.

He lived without one from then on, and was a fabulous (if occasionally wet and muddy) horse!


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			I have to be rude to make a point and they still dont get it
		
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You never have to be rude to make a point.
Unless its a very weak point.


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## nikkimariet (12 November 2013)

justabob said:



			Oh she would have put another rug on. Take no notice OP.
		
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Don't be daft. We would have bought another matchy set.


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			if i wanted another horse for myself(which i dont BTW), its the sort of problem that wouldnt put me off,but i wouldnt be paying much for the pleasure of taking it on. If you asking to send him here for training that is an entirely different matter as i do occasionally take in schooling liveries, and of course you can pm me if you wish to discuss that.



people have unpleasant experiences all the time and manage to be rather less dramatic in the solution-horse had a fright, has shown no inclination to repeat this, and should not be PTS just because the OP put him in an unsettling situation too early on and paid the price.



fortunately the OP does seem more mature than you justabob so im sure she can make up her own mind as to who to listen to without you having to guide her with your 100% unhelpful and unrelated comments.



but again, its not like(for eg) a dangerous dog going for people and trying to bite to kill where its very black and white-the dog means business, the horse got loose on the road through no fault of his own-he got a fright and the fencing couldnt hold him, being chased by a car (albeit i do see this was the only option) would make 99% of horse bolt longer and faster so again not sure how this is the main problem, to my mind the biggest problem is that the horse has not been allowed to settle in to the new yard and routine. The ending up loose on the road is just an unfortunate series of mishaps resulting from the above.

if the breeder will not take the horse back, i think the horse at the very least deserves a second chance before the OP sells him on. Get someone with no emotional involvement to help you, strict routine, firm but fair handling, put him in situations you are able to praise him for making the right choices.

if you cant do it, or dont want to , you will find someone to take him on im sure but dont expect them to pay much.

i repeat, this horse does not deserve PTS just because his people let him down.
		
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Someone with commen sense
and not affraid to say what they mean.Babies giving advice and like being told whod rude
Does not deserve to be pts .Send it back learn to handle horses then get one.All stop pts these
horses you mess up.


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

FWIW I do think Op ought to consider returning this poor horse.
The blood test is to try to ascertain if the horse had been given drugs when Op tried it.
It may be too late now it may not.
If the vendors did dope it Op can return and sue them for the return of the money and costs and she will be very likely to win .
However she's weakened her position by not having a vetting and blood taken prior to purchase .
I do think it's worth looking at this horses eyes as well .
Op needs help to manage this horse until she can return if that is what she decides to do . To do that she needs legal help ( which she's sorting getting ) but the horse exists until then and she needs a method of meeting it's needs while things get sorted out that's what we are trying to support her though.
By the way Op was seriously shaken yesterday I don't think it's a given she's overhorsed herself.


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## Nettle123 (12 November 2013)

What a terrifying experience for you hope you feel slightly better this morning. I have no experience of this behaviour but there has been excellent sensible advice from some very knowledgeable people on here. How a breeder can sell a horse like this and then completely wash their hands of it is unbelievable, it speaks volumes about them. 

I hope you find a solution OP, he does deserve another chance in a controlled environment but it will be hard not to put yourself and others at risk.

Thinking of you in a horrible situation, keep safe and take things slowly. Oh, and ignore the numpties on here, they are a tiny minority,lol.


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## ILuvCowparsely (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			Some of the people on hear are so nice and knowledgeable.But the are such stupid
kids in a cliques and others jumping in they cant see the point iam trying to make
When you search the forums thier advice does not make sense and it is dangerous
I have to be rude to make a point and they still dont get it
This girl is so over horsed .now they are telling her to get bloodtest omg thankyou
		
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 Because blood test  can reveal drugs in the system illnesses.   Also a vet can diagnose further issues which can cause behaviour problems.  All of those if proved the case would not be the horses fault for his behaviour to be so extreme.

 So why are you taking the moral high ground and throwing peoples comments back at them as if they are stupid.

Calling people babies in here does not help this situation when most here are probably older than you and had more experience.


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## julie111 (12 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			You never have to be rude to make a point.
Unless its a very weak point.
		
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No you don't, but it does happen on here very frequently! There are some people that have their little followers and once one thing gets said all the little sheep follow! People hide behind the Internet to be nasty. But like I also said there are some good knowledgable people on here that are genuine!


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## SadKen (12 November 2013)

I think you can probably count the number of people who aren't 'overhorsed' when it comes to a bolter on one hand.  

My auntie is THE most experienced horse person I've ever met.  Had horses for years, could manage anything, she'd broken and backed 100+ horses and dealt with rearing, bucking, tanking... the lot.  Took on a horse which tore the reins out of her hands and broke her finger, and bolted for 4 miles flat out and ran onto the railway line in front of an express train.  That was the end of that. She wasn't overhorsed.  The horse was dangerous. 

OP has said that she took on the horse as a project and does not want to keep him long term.  I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't feel comfortable selling a horse that had done this to someone else; there's a chance it will happen again.  I also wouldn't want to get on; the thought of riding something that I've seen lose the plot is terrifying, not to mention the fact that as others have said, he'll probably be uninsurable which negates hacking out, shows, leaving the yard at all etc - liability claims can run into the millions.  

There would only be 3 choices for me - 1) take the horse back and leave him with the breeder 2) PTS or 3) give the horse away to someone who is capable of dealing with him. 

The latter is appealing but there aren't many people who would want to take on a horse like that for free, if any.  There are so many nice horses who don't have this type of problem; it's only really worth paying if the horse is or is going to be something spectacular.  OP isn't going to get any benefit from having him brought on and reschooled because she doesn't want to keep him long term; as above - once this is done, can he morally be sold?  

That leaves the other two - I know which one I'd be doing, but luckily for me it's not my choice.

I really feel for you OP; I hope that you aren't upset by any of the comments on this thread.  It is a forum and of course opinions will be exchanged, but you're living this situation whereas for the rest of us it's an abstract.  Hope the dog and your knee are on the mend.


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## ILuvCowparsely (12 November 2013)

To make your your point in here or to put your point across.  Why don't you

 Be more polite and string your sentence with more useful information (google if needs be) which would help OP.
  Instead of turning this otherwise  advice seeking thread  into mud throwing competition.


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## julie111 (12 November 2013)

Op, legally you have bought from a breeder and horse is not fit for buyers use so therefore you could sue, maybe through a small claims court. If you put in writing that to them it might make them back down and take the horse back!


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## Amaranta (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			Some of the people on hear are so nice and knowledgeable.But the are such stupid
kids in a cliques and others jumping in they cant see the point iam trying to make
When you search the forums thier advice does not make sense and it is dangerous
I have to be rude to make a point and they still dont get it
This girl is so over horsed .now they are telling her to get bloodtest omg thankyou
		
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Perhaps she should keep it in her living room?

How dare you presume that the OP is overhorsed, were you there to see what happened?  What advice can you offer?  Any?  No I thought not, just like you attacked the poor poster who had her horse pts without offering anything practical.

Roofy you are the last one to talk about horse welfare and I thought you had been banned from this forum anyway?

OP I am sorry, you must have been terrified, there is nothing quite as bad as a blind bolter.  I too would try to return the horse, but, in the meantime you do seem to have a good plan.  Baby steps.


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## hairycob (12 November 2013)

TBH from what I've seen the cliqueyness tends to be mutually admiring groups. If a large group of people on here are telling someone they really ought to consider pts it's generally because it's the right thing to do. 
I have known one horse that was extremely dangerous. I don't know why but he would lunge to attack horses in the stable as he was walked past & caused several serious injuries to handlers & bystanders with his erratic & aggressive behaviour. He was 6 & owner had bred him. He had spent his entire life on yards. Once he pulled a handler across a yard to try & attack a baby in a pushchair & broke the ribs of the person who dived to get the pushchair out of the way. This was a horse that never got ridden because it was just not safe to even get on. He was moved to another yard as YO was not prepared to have anyone else injured. Now Lizbet - what is your take on that horse?


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## ILuvCowparsely (12 November 2013)

I think the OP needs to think / do the following.


 How does she want to pursue this:

small claims court
BHS Legal
 sue for wrongly advertised animal
 Keep the horse
re train it
persevere with it with risk of this happening again 
pass it back to dealer
risk someone else having this issue  by sending it back.
Gets some good legal advice


Depending on OP feelings for this horse, will sway what she does:

 Does she want to go to the expensive of extensive test to see if there is an underling issue and if there is she will at least have a stronger case should it go to court


 Keep a record of anything strange the horse does at what time and what situation it was in and what was the likely cause of the upset, along with photos for evidence.


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## Saneta (12 November 2013)

A couple of more thoughts for you today...if you are a member of the BHS, I think you have automatic personal liability insurance???  Secondly, I'm sure there must be an Apaloosa Society/club/forum in the UK.  How about posting details of your horse on there, and ask if anyone has any knowledge of him, or the 'breeder' you bought him from.  You don't have to go into details, but you might find something out that will ultimately help you?
Sorry you had a rotten night sleep, but to be expected under the circumstances.  Have you taken the Arnica yet, it really will help?


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## Woody2013 (12 November 2013)

That is dreadful and such a nerve wrecking experience. So dangerous. And glad it didn't end up in a tragedy. I hope you can get some good legal advice. I would have expected the breeder or dealer to take it back too. Hope things are more settle now though


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

Leviathan said:



			Because blood test  can reveal drugs in the system illnesses.   Also a vet can diagnose further issues which can cause behaviour problems.  All of those if proved the case would not be the horses fault for his behaviour to be so extreme.

 So why are you taking the moral high ground and throwing peoples comments back at them as if they are stupid.

Calling people babies in here does not help this situation when most here are probably older Gthan you and had more experience.
		
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look up maise o6 pts behaviour problems
I know why a blood test should be taken and for what reasons. Leaving a internet site dose not bother me. Giving someone bad advice would kill me go read maise 06 start

to finish and see who posted what pts behaviour problems


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## doriangrey (12 November 2013)

I think some people have been quite hard on the OP here.  She has stated already that she's used to dealing with youngsters and difficult horses so must be quite experienced to say the least.  FWIW I would be following your course of action so far OP, and you probably don't need me to tell you to take precautions   He does sound like a very frightened horse rather than a nasty one and frightened horse + no sense of self preservation (which some horses seem to have is spades) is quite probably a recipe for disaster.  You have the horse in front of you OP so it's your call.  It's good that you have some good friends to help, if you were by yourself I'd be suggesting you return him.  There has been some good advice on here so far and it's always good to have as many opinions as possible but I don't feel it's fair for anyone to presume that they would be doing better under the circumstances than the OP, although practical suggestions would be helpful   Please keep us up to speed OP as it is an interesting thread and some useful information could come out of it.  Glad you are feeling a little better and I agree totally that your being cautious is the right way to go atm.


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## ILuvCowparsely (12 November 2013)

hairycob said:



			TBH from what I've seen the cliqueyness tends to be mutually admiring groups. If a large group of people on here are telling someone they really ought to consider pts it's generally because it's the right thing to do. 
I have known one horse that was extremely dangerous. I don't know why but he would lunge to attack horses in the stable as he was walked past & caused several serious injuries to handlers & bystanders with his erratic & aggressive behaviour. He was 6 & owner had bred him. He had spent his entire life on yards. Once he pulled a handler across a yard to try & attack a baby in a pushchair & broke the ribs of the person who dived to get the pushchair out of the way. This was a horse that never got ridden because it was just not safe to even get on. He was moved to another yard as YO was not prepared to have anyone else injured. Now Lizbet - what is your take on that horse?
		
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 And what about this other one I know?

1980   Horse 16.black tb type owners family owned the yard and a big company and the BHS training yard I was in. Lunged at you when you went near box you had to throw the feed bowl over the door to avoid being bitten.  Going in with hay net you had to hold it in front of you as protection and once tied you had to run backwards so you could keep an eye on it while it charged at you what about this horse then??  

 Or Fey  arab  who lunged at my friend while she put the hay net up and grabbed her face???  What about this horse then??


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## suestowford (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			they cant see the point iam trying to make
		
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I certainly can't see your point as I can't understand most of what you write. Really, I have tried but I can't follow your posts at all. Sorry.


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## ILuvCowparsely (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			look up maise o6 pts behaviour problems
I know why a blood test should be taken and for what reasons. Leaving a internet site dose not bother me. Giving someone bad advice would kill me go read maise 06 start

to finish and see who posted what pts behaviour problems
		
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So tells us why is blood test a bad idea?  

 me Personally Its one thing I would do if I was thinking of pursuing a claim against them or wanting to see if there was an issue which would explain the horses behaviour.


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## Annagain (12 November 2013)

Where did the horse come from DA and what's his name? I might be barking up the wrong tree but the more I read, there's a couple of things starting to ring a few bells with me. I understand if you don't want to put it on a forum so PM me if you want.


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## Ladyinred (12 November 2013)

Leviathan said:



			And what about this other one I know?

1980   Horse 16.black tb type owners family owned the yard and a big company and the BHS training yard I was in. Lunged at you when you went near box you had to throw the feed bowl over the door to avoid being bitten.  Going in with hay net you had to hold it in front of you as protection and once tied you had to run backwards so you could keep an eye on it while it charged at you what about this horse then??  

 Or Fey  arab  who lunged at my friend while she put the hay net up and grabbed her face???  What about this horse then??
		
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They just need love and a special brand of knowledge available to only one or two on here!

Same as the stallion who was 20 and still tried to kill everything and everyone. Or the hunter gelding whose box you could not enter.. farrier thought he had the 'special knowledge' and marched in. Ever seen a farrier jump over a stable door, complete with his tools and tripod??

But I am sure Lizbet could have 'cured' both of these, just as she knows better than everyone else on here. Hell!! I should love to meet this paragon of horsiness!


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## julie111 (12 November 2013)

Leviathan said:



			And what about this other one I know?

1980   Horse 16.black tb type owners family owned the yard and a big company and the BHS training yard I was in. Lunged at you when you went near box you had to throw the feed bowl over the door to avoid being bitten.  Going in with hay net you had to hold it in front of you as protection and once tied you had to run backwards so you could keep an eye on it while it charged at you what about this horse then??  

 Or Fey  arab  who lunged at my friend while she put the hay net up and grabbed her face???  What about this horse then??
		
Click to expand...


I am sure there are any number of cases where horses attack for no reason etc. but this is not going to help the OP decide what to do! 
My husband is a solicitor, you are within your rights to return the horse. If you feel out of your depth with him the sooner he is returned the better. Good luck!


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Thanks for everyones replies. Have had a nice cup of tea with the neighbour and talked it over with her. Shes come to basically the same conclusion as me. Try my best to return as he can be worked on his issues in a place where he is safe and comfortable. Shes also going to pop around later and have a look at him with me and give me her opinion with him in the flesh. 

its very easy to blame me for being overhorsed or naive or whatever, but not being in the situation i was in yesterday i dont think anyone can judge. But im not interested in a fight on an internet forum, i have bigger things to worry about right now. If some people want to have their opinion then theyre welcome to that, i dont mind. I am glad i have posted because i have recieved some very good advice and had some good ideas and perspectives about things i hadnt thought about, re bloods etc. So thank you to those who have been supportive and those that have made me consider other reasons for this behavior. Even those that think that its all my fault and things just went too fast for him. but hindsight is always 2020 and i had no idea he was going to react to that extreme. Im not interesting in aportioning blame just want to do the right thing by him. He is in one piece, i am in one piece, one way or another i must secure his future.


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

Leviathan said:



			And what about this other one I know?

1980   Horse 16.black tb type owners family owned the yard and a big company and the BHS training yard I was in. Lunged at you when you went near box you had to throw the feed bowl over the door to avoid being bitten.  Going in with hay net you had to hold it in front of you as protection and once tied you had to run backwards so you could keep an eye on it while it charged at you what about this horse then??  

 Or Fey  arab  who lunged at my friend while she put the hay net up and grabbed her face???  What about this horse then??
		
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Many years ago I bred a dangerous horse .
The mare was a strong minded but talented and hard working mare she did nine seasons with us and then I put her in foal to a TB .
The resulting foal bit and I mean it bit I worked very hard to handle it daily worked hard on it then when it was  three I was preparing it to start work very carefully little things every day I must admitt I was looking forward to having her in work but it was my job to get her a life so I got on with it .
One day she went for me while I was grooming her neck when she turned on me she struck out with her forelegs and teeth and it is assumed she hit me on the head I came round sometime later on the yard I must have got myself out of the stable .
I had her shot by the hunt the next day we did not breed from the mare again .
These things are difficult judgements yes I knew people who would have taken on a horse such as her from a well bred performance proven mare but I took the choice of ending it then .
She was that perfect first teenagers horse type I just was to worried about what might happen down the road to take the chance and lose control of her.
OP's horse is afraid not aggressive that's more hopeful , easier to work with if you like.
If this horse has been a 'wrong un ' from the start shame on the breeders if you breed horses you must be prepared to cull the ones that sadly turn out badly.


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## julie111 (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Thanks for everyones replies. Have had a nice cup of tea with the neighbour and talked it over with her. Shes come to basically the same conclusion as me. Try my best to return as he can be worked on his issues in a place where he is safe and comfortable. Shes also going to pop around later and have a look at him with me and give me her opinion with him in the flesh. 

its very easy to blame me for being overhorsed or naive or whatever, but not being in the situation i was in yesterday i dont think anyone can judge. But im not interested in a fight on an internet forum, i have bigger things to worry about right now. If some people want to have their opinion then theyre welcome to that, i dont mind. I am glad i have posted because i have recieved some very good advice and had some good ideas and perspectives about things i hadnt thought about, re bloods etc. So thank you to those who have been supportive and those that have made me consider other reasons for this behavior. Even those that think that its all my fault and things just went too fast for him. but hindsight is always 2020 and i had no idea he was going to react to that extreme. Im not interesting in aportioning blame just want to do the right thing by him. He is in one piece, i am in one piece, one way or another i must secure his future.
		
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Very well said! I really hope things are resolved for you and the horse soon!


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Thanks for everyones replies. Have had a nice cup of tea with the neighbour and talked it over with her. Shes come to basically the same conclusion as me. Try my best to return as he can be worked on his issues in a place where he is safe and comfortable. Shes also going to pop around later and have a look at him with me and give me her opinion with him in the flesh. 

its very easy to blame me for being overhorsed or naive or whatever, but not being in the situation i was in yesterday i dont think anyone can judge. But im not interested in a fight on an internet forum, i have bigger things to worry about right now. If some people want to have their opinion then theyre welcome to that, i dont mind. I am glad i have posted because i have recieved some very good advice and had some good ideas and perspectives about things i hadnt thought about, re bloods etc. So thank you to those who have been supportive and those that have made me consider other reasons for this behavior. Even those that think that its all my fault and things just went too fast for him. but hindsight is always 2020 and i had no idea he was going to react to that extreme. Im not interesting in aportioning blame just want to do the right thing by him. He is in one piece, i am in one piece, one way or another i must secure his future.
		
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Good for you , I wish you luck and good things .


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## YasandCrystal (12 November 2013)

I agree that horses can attack for no reason, but often there is an underlying cause.  The point we all need to remember is that we are talking about a horse - a horse's life has to come below a human life, however much we may love horses. 
People need to be in the correct situation, financially, emotionally, experience wise to pursue investigations of the issues with dangerous horses.

Noone can judge without walking in the owner's shoes and we cannot condemn the actions for any horse pts for dangerous behaviour.  Far better horses with issues pts than passed on or injuring someone.  I posted on another behaviour thread about my WB that I have now owned for 3 years - he was very aggressive and dangerous and to investigate and get to the bottom of his issues was my decision and not one I took lightly, but my family feared for me constantly around him until his problems were unravelled and addressed one by one. It also made a big emotional strain on me. If I had had him pts then it would have been right at that time.


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## christine48 (12 November 2013)

be positive said:



			Reading between the lines, a homebred 7 year old that is barely backed, has never worn rugs and is sold very cheaply, now they want nothing to do with him, using the excuse of bringing in germs is ridiculous, this sounds suspiciously like a problem horse they just wanted rid of rather than spend time and money getting him to be a useful animal or if there really is something amiss doing the right thing by him.

Legally you are probably onto a loser, you knew he was green, paid little for him, probably failed to ask some searching enough questions or get anything in writing, the fact that he has jumped out, kicked the dog etc can be put down to a new home and being unsettled, if he is nice enough sending him away for a proper evaluation and possibly schooling may be worthwhile if you can find the right place.
		
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Unfortunately my thoughts exactly. There must have been a reason that at the age of 7 they have done nothing with him and he was cheap. I have seen horses bolt through fences in panic like that and they haven't been bad horses so I wouldn't write him off just for that.
Although he is 7 he is like an unbroken youngster. However the question is have they actually tried to do anything with him and failed, or just not had time?
If you think he's worth it and can afford it, would it be an option to have someone come and work with him and assess him.


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## YorksG (12 November 2013)

I think his breeding may have something to do with it, the appies I have/have had have been incredibly loyal and 'one person' horses, although mine have all been mares. Our first mare took at least a year to settle with us, the second who had been handled and broken very well by her breeders took much less time, but is still very much of the opinion that I belong to her. The third is our three year old filly, who to be fair settled almost immediately, but appeared to have decided from day one that I am hers. It may take him some time to believe that he belongs to you, which is perhaps not what you would want for one to sell on.


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## ILuvCowparsely (12 November 2013)

Ladyinred said:



			They just need love and a special brand of knowledge available to only one or two on here!

Same as the stallion who was 20 and still tried to kill everything and everyone. Or the hunter gelding whose box you could not enter.. farrier thought he had the 'special knowledge' and marched in. Ever seen a farrier jump over a stable door, complete with his tools and tripod??

But I am sure Lizbet could have 'cured' both of these, just as she knows better than everyone else on here. Hell!! I should love to meet this paragon of horsiness!
		
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LMAO. Wow have loved to see  her try and fail.


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

hairycob said:



			TBH from what I've seen the cliqueyness tends to be mutually admiring groups. If a large group of people on here are telling someone they really ought to consider pts it's generally because it's the right thing to do. 
I have known one horse that was extremely dangerous. I don't know why but he would lunge to attack horses in the stable as he was walked past & caused several serious injuries to handlers & bystanders with his erratic & aggressive behaviour. He was 6 & owner had bred him. He had spent his entire life on yards. Once he pulled a handler across a yard to try & attack a baby in a pushchair & broke the ribs of the person who dived to get the pushchair out of the way. This was a horse that never got ridden because it was just not safe to even get on. He was moved to another yard as YO was not prepared to have anyone else injured. Now Lizbet - what is your take on that horse?
		
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People do keep missing my point Thankyou for at least listening but the matter that i refering to is that one of the fact that this was a old sweetheart who had just started to bolt. So i did not think it was fair to pts till its health had been checked out.Eyes
Ears bloods chushings etc as out of charactor.I was slated by various people saying pts .The same people are on hear now saying check eyes bloods etc and dont put to sleep a horse that the owner knows nothing about.This worries me who are these people 
What someone does with their horse at the end of the  day is not our decission
i can accept that. But i cannot accept dangerous advise being dished out.You cannot

say to one bolter pts dont check health
To another check health and dont pts


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## ILuvCowparsely (12 November 2013)

christine48 said:



			Unfortunately my thoughts exactly. There must have been a reason that at the age of 7 they have done nothing with him and he was cheap. I have seen horses bolt through fences in panic like that and they haven't been bad horses so I wouldn't write him off just for that.
Although he is 7 he is like an unbroken youngster. However the question is have they actually tried to do anything with him and failed, or just not had time?
If you think he's worth it and can afford it, would it be an option to have someone come and work with him and assess him.
		
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^5 

 I think the only things  the OP is guilty for is:

 Having a too trusting nature
 a bit gullible
and easily swayed

 All of which many of us could fall for in any situation

 Think your right there, sadly I think OP was easy target for these people.  They saw ££ in here and knew she had a soft spot and gave her  info she wanted to hear, and she fell for it.  Like some people who are too trusting and easily swayed for their own good.

 OP you have had some very good advice here from some. (no comments on the other advice).  Talk it through with your vet as a first thing.

 For the record I never said PTS


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

amaranta said:



			perhaps she should keep it in her living room?

How dare you presume that the op is overhorsed, were you there to see what happened?  What advice can you offer?  Any?  No i thought not, just like you attacked the poor poster who had her horse pts without offering anything practical.

Roofy you are the last one to talk about horse welfare and i thought you had been banned from this forum anyway?

Op i am sorry, you must have been terrified, there is nothing quite as bad as a blind bolter.  I too would try to return the horse, but, in the meantime you do seem to have a good plan.  Baby steps.
		
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 clique


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

Leviathan said:



			LMAO. Wow have loved to see  her try and fail.
		
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Clique


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## Tiddlypom (12 November 2013)

Everyone, just ignore lizbet's posts, she'll get bored eventually and go off and invent another new persona to wind people up.

DA, all the best, take care and stay safe.


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## hairycob (12 November 2013)

I'm with Leviathan on this one. I don't know what it is about selling horses that brings out the worst in people & I expect the OP is noticing all the warning signs. I often say to people that if you have been to see 12 horses then at least 11 people will have lied to you.

Lizbet, you are still not seeing the difference in the 2 horses. 
a) has been known by it's owner most of it's life & any pts decision will not have been taken lightly. Vet & pro rider are in agreement with the decision. Owner loves the horse & wants the best for it & if that is an end to suffering so be it. By the way cataracts would often be a reason to pts as some horses just can't cope with impaired vision & a younger horse with Cushings doesn't have much chance of a brilliant future either. The chances are that a confirmation of either of the things you are grasping at would merely confirm the owners decision. I'm lucky my horse with a cataract gets on just fine but some are too easily panicked.
b) is a totally unknown quantity. It may just have been a frightened horse. It may have a manageable condition. It may be so dangerous it is best pts. However there are several things about it that are ringing alarm bells that the OP has been sold a horse known to have severe issues.


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

Tiddlypom said:



			Everyone, just ignore lizbet's posts, she'll get bored eventually and go off and invent another new persona to wind people up.

DA, all the best, take care and stay safe.
		
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Good advise .


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## ILuvCowparsely (12 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			Good advise .
		
Click to expand...


 I found most people here helpful to OP.  Yes a few have been abrupt / rude/ unhelpful.  I think between all of the positive posters we have give OP as much info /advice to work with as we can, and now we need to sit back and see where it goes from here.


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Thanks for everyones replies. Have had a nice cup of tea with the neighbour and talked it over with her. Shes come to basically the same conclusion as me. Try my best to return as he can be worked on his issues in a place where he is safe and comfortable. Shes also going to pop around later and have a look at him with me and give me her opinion with him in the flesh. 

its very easy to blame me for being overhorsed or naive or whatever, but not being in the situation i was in yesterday i dont think anyone can judge. But im not interested in a fight on an internet forum, i have bigger things to worry about right now. If some people want to have their opinion then theyre welcome to that, i dont mind. I am glad i have posted because i have recieved some very good advice and had some good ideas and perspectives about things i hadnt thought about, re bloods etc. So thank you to those who have been supportive and those that have made me consider other reasons for this behavior. Even those that think that its all my fault and things just went too fast for him. but hindsight is always 2020 and i had no idea he was going to react to that extreme. Im not interesting in aportioning blame just want to do the right thing by him. He is in one piece, i am in one piece, one way or another i must secure his future.
		
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Great post.  Keep us updated.


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

seemed a little more calm. went in the stable with him, was careful with the door though as i think he would shoot out if he could! petted him chatted to him quietly and lifted his feet and checked his legs which seem fine given that he ran on the road for 5 miles. hes moving around his stable fine too. doesnt seem stiff. so just baby baby steps now. hes tolerating me but not engaging yet. thats OK its all new. Am glad i was able to get in the stable with him this time without him presenting his bum to me. All is quiet on the yard and the horses who are in are quietly munching their hay. If he progresses well this afternoon i will try to turn him out in the pen for an hour where i can watch him and make sure he stays calm.


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## Slightlyconfused (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			seemed a little more calm. went in the stable with him, was careful with the door though as i think he would shoot out if he could! petted him chatted to him quietly and lifted his feet and checked his legs which seem fine given that he ran on the road for 5 miles. hes moving around his stable fine too. doesnt seem stiff. so just baby baby steps now. hes tolerating me but not engaging yet. thats OK its all new. Am glad i was able to get in the stable with him this time without him presenting his bum to me. All is quiet on the yard and the horses who are in are quietly munching their hay. If he progresses well this afternoon i will try to turn him out in the pen for an hour where i can watch him and make sure he stays calm.
		
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that's good.

op did you get my pm?
x


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## justabob (12 November 2013)

Well done DA, at least you are prepared and can put things in place for both your safety, things will never be as bad as yesterday again. I would not be in too much of a hurry to turn him out, get him on your side a bit more. Lets face it you both had a trauma yesterday and you both need to get your levels of anxiety down. He is taking no harm at the moment, just take one step at a time. I am sure you are more than able to manage this horse and give him a chance, the achievement to get him to settle will be huge and this test for you will go even further to making you into an even better horsewoman. We learn nothing of much value from easy. Good luck.


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## YasandCrystal (12 November 2013)

justabob said:



			Well done DA, at least you are prepared and can put things in place for both your safety, things will never be as bad as yesterday again. I would not be in too much of a hurry to turn him out, get him on your side a bit more. Lets face it you both had a trauma yesterday and you both need to get your levels of anxiety down. He is taking no harm at the moment, just take one step at a time. I am sure you are more than able to manage this horse and give him a chance, the achievement to get him to settle will be huge and this test for you will go even further to making you into an even better horsewoman. We learn nothing of much value from easy. Good luck.
		
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These are wise words.


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## PolarSkye (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			Nutters they are
		
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Yoda?

P


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## PolarSkye (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Thanks for everyones replies. Have had a nice cup of tea with the neighbour and talked it over with her. Shes come to basically the same conclusion as me. Try my best to return as he can be worked on his issues in a place where he is safe and comfortable. Shes also going to pop around later and have a look at him with me and give me her opinion with him in the flesh. 

its very easy to blame me for being overhorsed or naive or whatever, but not being in the situation i was in yesterday i dont think anyone can judge. But im not interested in a fight on an internet forum, i have bigger things to worry about right now. If some people want to have their opinion then theyre welcome to that, i dont mind. I am glad i have posted because i have recieved some very good advice and had some good ideas and perspectives about things i hadnt thought about, re bloods etc. So thank you to those who have been supportive and those that have made me consider other reasons for this behavior. Even those that think that its all my fault and things just went too fast for him. but hindsight is always 2020 and i had no idea he was going to react to that extreme. Im not interesting in aportioning blame just want to do the right thing by him. He is in one piece, i am in one piece, one way or another i must secure his future.
		
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What a kind, sensible approach.  Best of luck with him .

P


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## yaffsimone1 (12 November 2013)

justabob said:



			Well done DA, at least you are prepared and can put things in place for both your safety, things will never be as bad as yesterday again. I would not be in too much of a hurry to turn him out, get him on your side a bit more. Lets face it you both had a trauma yesterday and you both need to get your levels of anxiety down. He is taking no harm at the moment, just take one step at a time. I am sure you are more than able to manage this horse and give him a chance, the achievement to get him to settle will be huge and this test for you will go even further to making you into an even better horsewoman. We learn nothing of much value from easy. Good luck.
		
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Ive only read some of the responses but I would agree with this. There is no rush, baby steps, if it means him being in his stable for a few days where he feels safe and comfortable then so be it. I wouldn't let too many people handle him at this stage either, you work on building the relationship. Lead him round the yard in hand, grooming, talking, just general TLC. I'm sure he will come round, it may just take time. Like Justabob says just getting him to settle will be a massive step forward. You know what to do, your just still shaken which I can understand. Good luck


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## MadBlackLab (12 November 2013)

OP just take it one step at a time and when you move on a step it goes tits up (so to speak) then just go back one step. 
 And as justabob said he will make you a better horsewomen.
Best of luck and keep us all posted on how you get on


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## Booboos (12 November 2013)

I am a big fan of a bit of sedaline for a new horse turned out the first time - did you ask your vet about this?


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## doriangrey (12 November 2013)

justabob said:



			Well done DA, at least you are prepared and can put things in place for both your safety, things will never be as bad as yesterday again. I would not be in too much of a hurry to turn him out, get him on your side a bit more. Lets face it you both had a trauma yesterday and you both need to get your levels of anxiety down. He is taking no harm at the moment, just take one step at a time. I am sure you are more than able to manage this horse and give him a chance, the achievement to get him to settle will be huge and this test for you will go even further to making you into an even better horsewoman. We learn nothing of much value from easy. Good luck.
		
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I agree with justabob.  It would be an advantage if he starts regarding his stable as a place where he feels safe and relaxed.  Of course if he goes stir crazy that's different!  Good luck OP, sounds like you have a plan


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## TheSylv007 (12 November 2013)

Sounds like you are being very sensible.  Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Carefreegirl (12 November 2013)

My only thought with taking Blood would be that it wasn't done at the breeders yard before being taken away (I know he wasn't vetted) Yes, if anything has been administered then hopefully the results would show this but the breeder will argue to the hills and back that it was administered after the horse left his / her yard. 

Hope it's a positive outcome all round - I mean the situation being resolved, not the blood tests !


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Thanks everyone. My neighbour came and walked him around thr school ( i am still limping quite badly so felt if was safer ) in a bridle. She had some very good advice also. Plan is tokeep him in thr stable for a couple of days as its obvious that is wherre he feels safest and walk him around the school so he can be used tobeing led and hes not stuck in the stable for so long. He may settle. I hope he does. I would still prefer he went back ( neighbour agrees ) but hes here now..


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## Spring Feather (12 November 2013)

To be quite frank, you're young I suspect so will probably try to make the best of this situation.  Are you going to be able to overcome your fear that this could happen again?  Do you think you'll ever be able to put this episode out of your mind and move forward?  Will what's happened taint how you bring this horse on?  Do you think you'll feel comfortable riding out the horse?  If these answers are yes then go with it and I hope the progress is steady.  If not then you should seriously consider taking the horse back to the breeder.

For what it's worth, I've sold two horses, similar age to yours, bred or raised here for all of their lives, and there have been problems moving them to new premises.  Both of these youngsters were bought and boarded at my farm for at least a year and the owners had no problems at all with them, but once they moved them to their own farms, trouble did brew.  The horses were very unsettled and fence ran and had the fencing not been good enough then it's highly possible they would have been experiencing the same as you did yesterday.  The way I remedied the problem for both horses was to go and ride these horses at their new homes for a month (2 or 3 times a week) so that they had their familiar handler/rider at the new place.  This did work and both horses settled, however in the first week or so they were very upset with their owners and did exhibit real stress ie. biting and barging their owners.  They didn't ever do this with me, more they wanted to kind of snuggle in to me.  I don't know whether all useful communication is over between you and the breeder but maybe it's worth a shot asking them to come over and help this horse settle.

I wouldn't be considering PTS for a horse who is just seriously unsettled and well out of his comfort zone, however I would not blame you if you made the previous owner take him back.  It can be very disconcerting for a new owner to experience what you've experienced.


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

That sounds more positive at least your in a place where you have a bit of breathing space so you can take advise re returning him.


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## Jenna1406 (12 November 2013)

Couldnt just read and run.

It must have been terrifying what happened yesterday for you and i am glad that no one came to any harm apart from your knee.  In this situation, you have to do what is right for you.

It is great that you are taking baby steps with him and trying to make light of a bad situation, I take my hat off to you.  

Hope he comes right for you and maybe he will turn into a cracker.

Keep us informed of his progress and you progress with the previous owners.

Good Luck and Stay Safe xx


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## zigzag (12 November 2013)

Hope it all goes well with you, give him a few days to settle before trying him out again and I would sedate him as well on first turn out.  

If it goes badly wrong again you could always send him to Beeston for Roofy to buy  (p.s this is a joke!) 


Also it doesn't mean a breeder is dishonest if a 7 year old hasn't done much, my old boss bred a few horses, things went wrong one year and  nothing was done with them, following year she was in hospital for a few months, year after husband died, ended up with 4 6 year olds who had nothing done to them apart from basic handling


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## TrasaM (12 November 2013)

You've had a terrible start to a new relationship. I'm sure that no one anticipates that something like this could happen. From the horses viewpoint he was in a strange place with strange people and all his normal points of reference and security had gone. Running away does not then seem so reckless when you consider all this. He was trying to find safety from all this strange new scariness. I does seem like you've made a brand new beginning today and so good that you hAve some support on hand to help you through this.  Go slowly, keep safe and give him time to settle and trust you. Best wishes and stay positive.


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## MadBlackLab (12 November 2013)

I agree to some the points of sedating him when he next gets turned out to take edge of him. It won't hurt him and it will prevent him doing harm to himself.


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## Fellewell (12 November 2013)

Glad to hear he's settled a bit. Was it the first time he'd been turned out with a rug on? He does seem to have been trying to escape something rather than looking for comfort (sorry if this has already been covered).
We've all bought 'fire-eating dragons' over the years and it's not unusual for dealers to off-load horses they consider not worth feeding for the winter.
Hope you can sort this out. All the best.


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Thank you, no, not particularly young.. old enough andugly enough to have a mortgage and a job and responsibilities  

Dont know who roofy is... im not very good with keeping up with the dramas on here


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Dont know who roofy is... im not very good with keeping up with the dramas on here 

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No body important, in any shape or form.


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## cambrica (12 November 2013)

So sorry to read about your experience yesterday... You must have been shook up to the core! 
Sounds promising that you are prepared to give him another chance and that you have some hands on support. You never know but he may turn out to be that horse of a lifetime. If not at least you have tried. 
My only experience of this type of situation is when I brought my Sec d back from Wales. He was 3 and had been born and raised on the stud. Following a five hour trip home he was scared and bewildered but stuck to me like glue. It was over the Xmas period so I was at the yard most of the time. I let him in a small paddock next to the yard and he just stood at the gate watching me and calling to me, then would venture a bit further, then come trotting back. I left him there for an hour or so, came back to find he had panicked and run straight through the post and rail fencing. He was in a state, bewildered and scared. The next few days he went out when I was there and stabled when I wasn't.  It took time but he did settle in and was introduced to the other horses and I made sure I spent a great deal of time grooming and just being with him. 
Looking back now it took several months to really feel that this was his home. The bond I have with him is like no other - my mum is always saying 'oh FGS that horse is like a love sick puppy!' 
Good luck, I really hope it all goes well for you x


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## ridefast (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			Clique
		
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Clique


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## ozpoz (12 November 2013)

I'm glad he is a bit more settled, and you are ok too.
I had a 7 year old who had stayed with his breeder all his life and I did not know just how stressed and miserable a horse could be, before we had him. Luckily we didn't have any added extra stresses in his first week, or I think he would have experienced the "tipping point" too. He took a year to feel at home, his behaviour was fine. but he wasn't happy, for a long time. 
Roll on 10 years, my daughter had loads of fun with him,and he is still here.

I would avoid anything but routine and a buddy for yours, and let him settle in. No rugs!
I really hope it all works out for you - too early to jump to conclusions about him at the moment.


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Op, sorry if this has been said elsewhere - but have you actually spoken to the breeder on the phone - or anyone who works for them??


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Amymay i was unable to due to broken phone. its now been fixed but ive lost the number. i spoke to one half of the operation via facebook and told them everything. I got a one line we reply ' we wont have him back '

Just wanted to update. hes calmer this evening. hes been groomed top to tail to get the mud off where he fell so i can see what kind of state he was in. He has a large haemotoma under his belly where i think he took the post out. his legs seem a touch puffy but he walked out sound which was surprising. no heat or signs of lammi. picked up all 4 feet OK. took it very slowly but able to touch him all over. Even managed to brush out his mane which had lots of knots in it and very long. he accepted belly and legs being touched and didnt turn his bottom. I think he feels safe in his stable so will work with him there for the time being. He also the had beginnings of being tied up, but the rope was only put through the ring with a friend holding the other end. a positive evening.


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## MadBlackLab (12 November 2013)

Glad he is much calmer and has accepted you. also glad he feels safe and calm in his stable. Well done with today progress. You have done well and may it continue x


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## Slightly Foxed (12 November 2013)

hairycob said:



			If I were OP I think I would be trying to find out where either Princ33sSp4rkle or Lizbet lived & working out how best to get the horse to them.
		
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Absolutely, these are the guys who can make it all better for you and the horse, they obviously have horsey super powers!


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## Lambkins (12 November 2013)

So sorry about all that has happened :/ sounds like a nightmare !! 
 I would call them .. Beg borrow or steal a phone .. Borrow ur friends .. Or turn up at the stud ( not with the horse )  and talk to them face to face ..and sort it adult to adult .. try and keep ur cool.. as nobody wants to deal with a screaming wild beast ( not saying u would scream and shout but its easy to get carried away in the heat of the moment  ) just be factual and to the point .. And try and call the ASAP don't let the grass grow


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## YasandCrystal (12 November 2013)

OP it sounds like he is settling down. If he was newly rugged I think you may be able to put it down to that as others have said. He's probably scared for his life and doesn't realise the drama he caused. I do wish you well and hope things progress positively.

Lots of sellers refuse horses back; I admit it is odd they are not engaging with you to help, but without a phone and via fb is also a bit weird and public for them too no doubt.


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

I am glad  you had a good evening with him.


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## justabob (12 November 2013)

What a difference a day makes, lets hope more steps will be taken tomorrow. Sleep easy tonight as he needs to do no more than to recover, and so do you.


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## Tern (12 November 2013)

I feel for you, mine is not that bad but she is 7, when i first got her she reared and bolted when ridden,would not stand still, would not load, reared when tied up. Couldn't even understand how to pick her feet up - owner even admitted she did them pretty much never. (luckily this was in summer where it was bone dry) and couldn't go on the bit - got that nearly sorted but still can't bend and i mean she's 7!  I would go with everything everyone else has said. Although she has been in the same home for 3 years - never went on roads to even hack..


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Don't you still have the advert?


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## Girlracer (12 November 2013)

I've seen a horse go into a blind panic bolt before, it went through a few fences/gates before finally tangling itself in a 5 bar gate which was the only thing that stopped it.

It was a similar age, and was rugged for the first time, tied on the yard. Put it's head down to eat and either the noise/feel of the rug sent it into absolute panic mode and it eventually bolted away from the yard (which it had been at for a LONG time). Could something such as rugs have been a trigger?

Sounds very scary but sounds as though you're dealing with it as best you can. He sounds like a very scared, confused boy and I hope he realises it's all okay soon.


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Yep i do good point. But i was advised today to send the letter and keep it to written communication.


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Yep i do good point. But i was advised today to send the letter and keep it to written communication.
		
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Oh good. What exactly did the guy say about the horse when you collected it on Sunday?


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

it could have been the rug - but he had worn it the night before, had a roll etc and didnt seem bothered by it...


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Yep i do good point. But i was advised today to send the letter and keep it to written communication.
		
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That's what I would do then there's no ambiguity about what everyone's position is.
Even better if you access to a friendly solicitor get them to send a letter.


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

lets see..

he signed the receipt to say that sold as tried, not seen alot of traffic.
they said the horse was well behaved in turnout would go out with anything, was fenced with post and electric, had not ever bolted bucked reared or bitten. They said he was safe just hadnt done a lot. the worst thing he had ever done was put his head up which is why he was ridden in a martingale. he was in a snaffle bit and gp saddle and a martingale and a cavesson noseband. hes not strong to ride. It was only when i asked specifically about tying him up they said that hes never tied up and when i asked his rug size they said hes never worn a rug.


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

I forget , was he rugged when the incident happened ?


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Well you should know OP that according to a couple of posters the breeder was in hospital on Friday (where he remains). An offer has also apparently been made to take the horse back  - once the daughter has arrived to take over management of the yard.

Make of that what you will. 

Hope these posters aren't confusing your purchase with someone else.


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## be positive (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			lets see..

 when i asked his rug size they said hes never worn a rug.
		
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If it was the first time he had been out in a rug, once he started running he was probably running from the rug, that would explain why he was in such a panic, wearing it in the stable is very different from in a field, makes it more likely he will come right if you end up keeping him.


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## MadBlackLab (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			well we could not do much worse than
some of you lot on hear could we. That poor girl being in your hands.And some really nice people nice
on hear to.Least me and this person are honest.Not two faced
hipercrites like some of you . And dont threaten me    quirky   for proving these people to be the 
hipercrites they are.Some people take advice seriously that is given to them
I wont put up with people giving me s***.When iam trying to help
I have been there done that got the T shirt. Not some no it all kid
		
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OMG what hole did you come from. So you don't agree with some of the opinions on here doesn't mean we hypocrites. Fair enough you may have had to PTS a horse for behaviour issues but each situation is different and can be handled differently.

What is wrong with everyone this week jumping on high horses and being rude to anyone with a difference of an opinion. What's wrong with some of the youth today


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## Spring Feather (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			It was only when i asked specifically about tying him up they said that hes never tied up and when i asked his rug size they said hes never worn a rug.
		
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I think here's your answer.  If he's never been rugged before then I think this is the most likely reason for him bolting.


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## minwood (12 November 2013)

Hi, similar thing happened to my sister but with 2 that she got from a breeder. They had a fright when the hunt suddenly turned up without warning, they cleared fence one legged it and grazed the other bolted down the lane, on to a busy main road for 4 miles and into the next village. She was found shaking between a scaffolding lorry and a double decker bus... But fine!!! They weren't turned out for a week after the incident and then only for an hour or so and now they are fine left all day- but has taken time!!!The one who bolted was bad mannered ridden and on the ground,but with perseverance and constant schooling- which is what she needed, is an angel now!


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

I nearly dropped my phone in the bath when I read this ! I hope they have me confused with another breeder because this breeder was certainly alive and well and right in front of me on Sunday and I wasn't at a hospital I was in their yard ! I have the sales receipt which is signed by him ad his name printed . 

Secondly noone had contacted me to say that tey will take the horse back I haven't blocked then on fb an I'm guessing they still have by number in their phone .


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

Thought not.


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## Slightly Foxed (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			I nearly dropped my phone in the bath when I read this ! I hope they have me confused with another breeder because this breeder was certainly alive and well and right in front of me on Sunday and I wasn't at a hospital I was in their yard ! I have the sales receipt which is signed by him ad his name printed . 

Secondly noone had contacted me to say that tey will take the horse back I haven't blocked then on fb an I'm guessing they still have by number in their phone .
		
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Oh, what nearly made you drop your phone in the bath?? Replying with a quote sometimes makes things easier to follow.


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

The more I think about amy mays post the more angry I get . If this is the case why has nobody pmed me with this story ? I can I Lu think that there are bored people out there wanting to meddle and cause drama . I have a receipt from the guy signed by the guy dated Sunday and 4 witnesses to say he was there alive and well ! No way was he In  Hospital . I sincerely hope you are its a vase of mistaken identity Amymay but if you think not then name ad shame these posters !


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Oh, what nearly made you drop your phone in the bath?? Replying with a quote sometimes makes things easier to follow.
		
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amymay said:



			Well you should know OP that according to a couple of posters the breeder was in hospital on Friday (where he remains). An offer has also apparently been made to take the horse back  - once the daughter has arrived to take over management of the yard.

Make of that what you will. 

Hope these posters aren't confusing your purchase with someone else.
		
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Sorry on my phone hope this helps for context


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## Spring Feather (12 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Well you should know OP that according to a couple of posters the breeder was in hospital on Friday (where he remains). An offer has also apparently been made to take the horse back  - once the daughter has arrived to take over management of the yard.

Make of that what you will. 

Hope these posters aren't confusing your purchase with someone else.
		
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So why don't these posters post on this thread?  From what DA has said, it's mistaken identity though.


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Sorry should have been more clear about the issue re rugs the first night he was t in stable was in my turnout pen as he was completely chilled with the rugs SI far .  That of course doesn't mean they didn't spook him but I think it was probably more likely the nasty fall into the fence taking the post out with him which likely zapped him and caused the bolt . When I got him home he was soaked to the bone and I was forced to put him in a sweat rug as I did not want to risk a chill . It came off once he was dry ad he's been unrugged since .  But of all the things that have happened hea been surprisingly good about rugging and loading .


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## Heaven27 (12 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			lets see..

he signed the receipt to say that sold as tried, not seen alot of traffic.
they said the horse was well behaved in turnout would go out with anything, was fenced with post and electric, had not ever bolted bucked reared or bitten. They said he was safe just hadnt done a lot. the worst thing he had ever done was put his head up which is why he was ridden in a martingale. he was in a snaffle bit and gp saddle and a martingale and a cavesson noseband. hes not strong to ride. It was only when i asked specifically about tying him up they said that hes never tied up and when i asked his rug size they said hes never worn a rug.
		
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By reading your earlier posts and especially the one above i think you have made the point clear yourself:
1. As other people have said too.... it is early days, give the horse a chance to settle in (my horse took months to settle in).
2. If he has never had a rug on, i think that maybe your problem too.
3. If the horse was that bad and difficult do you think the breeder would have kept him for 7 years.

Maybe you should give the horse a chance!


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## digitalangel (12 November 2013)

Um thanks . He's still here and I didn't spend hours with him today to not give him a chance  I doubt the rug is the issue having replayed it over and over in my head I think it was the fall into the fence that escalated everything . but thank you for all your points anyway ! 

And re the other post I am Gobsmacked .


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## MiniMilton (12 November 2013)

If he was rugged for the first time and this was the cause of the panic, then this is great news. At least there is a reason for the over reaction. 

I had a silly mare that I spent time putting rug on, she was happy in it, and then didnt seem bothered at all going out into the field. Going through the gateway the rug rubbed against the gate making a noise, terrifying her and causing a freak accident where she seriously over reacted and the bolt of the gate badly punctured her abdomen. Needless to say I never put a rug on her again.

If the horse was settled in stable with rug, settled in field with rug, but then the upset of changing field caused him to run, then this scary thing in his back causing the bolt. It's sounding more promising than I first thought. It's still a huge over reaction by the horse, but at least if there is a reason it gives you something to work on. I wish you and the horse the the very best of luck whichever route you take


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## MiniMilton (12 November 2013)

Sorry my post crossed with yours. If you don't think its the rug, and as you are the only one to actually witness the incident, then you are most likely right. I'd avoid a rug for the first few times Turing him out though, just to be sure


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## hoggedmane (12 November 2013)

7 years ago a pony I know bolted through a set of slip rails and two post and rail fences after being scared by her rider falling off of her. She was in a right state when caught and took a while to calm down again. She has never done this again. Something happened to trigger her flight response and she was also in a new home so less secure in the people and surroundings. She is really sweet and a lovely pony although slightly sensitive. I haven't read all the replies but it seems like you are giving him a chance and that may  work.


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

julie111 said:



			No you don't, but it does happen on here very frequently! There are some people that have their little followers and once one thing gets said all the little sheep follow! People hide behind the Internet to be nasty. But like I also said there are some good knowledgable people on here that are genuine!
		
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Thankyou


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## lizbet (12 November 2013)

Tiddlypom said:



			Everyone, just ignore lizbet's posts, she'll get bored eventually and go off and invent another new persona to wind people up.

DA, all the best, take care and stay safe.
		
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Board omg iam board no wounder you are old nags and done
42,000post.42,000posts.who the hell has time for that old nags.
No wounder its been 20years and you still cant get shoes on your
horse.Thats why you have to have them all pts with problem.You have
not got time to deal with them.You are all to busy clique on hear.
Bet none of you are going hunting or olympia or just been to hoys
nothing on the competing section none of your names anyway.Well i would
Rather be with my family and horse than talk rubbish with rubbish
On hear what a waste of a week looking at this rubbish.42,000posts
who does that.Brain dead zombies


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## WelshD (12 November 2013)

sorry.... I turned in to a braindead zombie just trying to process that in to English....


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## Goldenstar (12 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			Board omg iam board no wounder you are old nags and done
42,000post.42,000posts.who the hell has time for that old nags.
No wounder its been 20years and you still cant get shoes on your
horse.Thats why you have to have them all pts with problem.You have
not got time to deal with them.You are all to busy clique on hear.
Bet none of you are going hunting or olympia or just been to hoys
nothing on the competing section none of your names anyway.Well i would
Rather be with my family and horse than talk rubbish with rubbish
On hear what a waste of a week looking at this rubbish.42,000posts
who does that.Brain dead zombies
		
Click to expand...

Good heavens !!!!!!!!!!!


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## TrasaM (12 November 2013)

Is it too late for popcorn ? Ok.. Maybe a nice milky drink then


----------



## lastchancer (13 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			Board omg iam board no wounder you are old nags and done
42,000post.42,000posts.who the hell has time for that old nags.
No wounder its been 20years and you still cant get shoes on your
horse.Thats why you have to have them all pts with problem.You have
not got time to deal with them.You are all to busy clique on hear.
Bet none of you are going hunting or olympia or just been to hoys
nothing on the competing section none of your names anyway.Well i would
Rather be with my family and horse than talk rubbish with rubbish
On hear what a waste of a week looking at this rubbish.42,000posts
who does that.Brain dead zombies
		
Click to expand...

Are your thoughts as jumbled at your writing?


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## hairycob (13 November 2013)

I bet Lizbet has one of the highest posts per day rates this week. 
Sorry I didn't post last night - I was out show jumping.


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## Amymay (13 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			I sincerely hope you are its a case of mistaken identity Amymay but if you think not then name ad shame these posters !
		
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I have no doubt that the situation is precisely as you have stated.


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## Amymay (13 November 2013)

hairycob said:



			I bet Lizbet has one of the highest posts per day rates this week. 
Sorry I didn't post last night - I was out show jumping.
		
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Lizbet is a previously banned member.  Hopefully they'll get board soon...


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## Patterdale (13 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Lizbet is a previously banned member.  Hopefully they'll get board soon...
		
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Ooooh who?


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## Goldenstar (13 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Lizbet is a previously banned member.  Hopefully they'll get board soon...
		
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Oh I see.


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## Kat_Bath (13 November 2013)

Page 2:



digitalangel said:



			oh, i cant leave work theyre not very understanding. but i do feel like i need to, but i cant.
		
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Page 22:



digitalangel said:



			*I am checking on him when i can but i also have a job to do. I work from home.*
		
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Perhaps I spend too much time on here browsing on my mornings when I work late...  Perhaps there is a legitimate reason for the above...? But I'm confused.


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## Goldenstar (13 November 2013)

Kat_Bath said:



			Page 2:



Page 22:



Perhaps I spend too much time on here browsing on my mornings when I work late...  Perhaps there is a legitimate reason for the above...? But I'm confused.
		
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I think OP works from home .


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## WelshD (13 November 2013)

hairycob said:



			... 
Sorry I didn't post last night - I was out show jumping.
		
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How dare you have a life  

Even if OP does work from home it doesnt mean they are easily made free, I remember when I worked from home I was pretty much tied to the laptop and telephone sometimes for up to 15 hours due to colleagues being in other parts of the world. I have more freedom now and less scrutiny than I did then.


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## Kat_Bath (13 November 2013)

WelshD said:



			Even if OP does work from home it doesnt mean they are easily made free, I remember when I worked from home I was pretty much tied to the laptop and telephone sometimes for up to 15 hours due to colleagues being in other parts of the world. I have more freedom now and less scrutiny than I did then.
		
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I know (my landlord is a work-from-home and a family member used to) but the implications and tone of both posts were different and just threw me slightly. That's all I'll say, I wasn't bringing it up to be nasty, I was just confused.


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## Goldenstar (13 November 2013)

Kat_Bath said:



			I know (my landlord is a work-from-home and a family member used to) but the implications and tone of both posts were different and just threw me slightly. That's all I'll say, I wasn't bringing it up to be nasty, I was just confused.
		
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I think what you are referring to as OP's tone could be put down to the fact she was seriously shocked and stressed after this happened .


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## Jenna1406 (13 November 2013)

Glad to hear that he was more settled and you are making some progress in the stable with him.  Maybe this was a one time thing and he will come good for you.  Hope all is well this morning.

As for Lizbet, you are acting very immature.  Grow up or go back to school.


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## Wagtail (13 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Today i turned him out with a buddy and when i went to switch fields with another horse and moved him next to another horse he went crazy.
		
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And here lies your answer. Most knowledgeable horse people will be familiar with the way completely strange horses, when put into an unfamiliar environment, away from their own long term buddies, will bond very quickly and very strongly. It is a prey animals survival instinct. To then move them away before they are secure in their new environment is asking for trouble. Obviously not all horses are going to react the way your new boy did, but I can tell you one thing, my horse of a lifetime that I just had PTS two days ago would have done that when I first got her. No doubt about it whatsoever. So many people told me to get rid. And you know what? She turned out to be the best horse I could ever have wished for. My true soulmate who I will never be able to replace.


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## suestowford (13 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Lizbet is a previously banned member.  Hopefully they'll get board soon...
		
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I am unreasonably excited that I think I have guessed who this new poster is! Usually I don't have a clue. 

I also wanted to add to the OP, I have been reading your updates and it's all sounding much more hopeful. I think this horse is lucky to be at yours as you sound like you know what you're doing. In a way I hope you can't send him back as I feel he will do better with you than back at the breeder's.


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## digitalangel (13 November 2013)

Yes sorry i do tend to get tied to the laptop and i had meetings all that afternoon and couldnt leave the home/office. its one of the downsides of WFH you do tend to get tied and cant get away! Work really needed me that afternoon due to an important issue and i couldnt bail. Im sorry if it was misleading. Also being a public internet forum and all that, i try not to put out too many private life details and all that  

Hes still here.. im still here. have a plan going forward and im still nervous of the risk of if this happens again. Shall see.


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## MotherOfChickens (13 November 2013)

I reckon you sound like you know what to do, must have been such a shock-I remember seeing mine bomb off and cross the old A1 after coming off. Managed to leg it after him, call someone nearby to help catch him and once we had him back I was physically sick with the shock-I honestly thought he would kill someone. 

As an aside, I started rugging one of my natives in a fly rug this summer, he's a youngster. He was fine in his box but in the field, although he coped with the elastic tail loop fine, the fillet strap occasionally tapping the back of his legs caused him to randomly bomb off-even when he was just grazing! It was a desensitisation issue, I took that one off and worked with him a bit until it didnt freak him out. Just a hole in his education through not being as well handled in that respect as he could be.


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## MotherOfChickens (13 November 2013)

...


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## DragonSlayer (13 November 2013)

lizbet said:



			Board omg iam board no wounder you are old nags and done
42,000post.42,000posts.who the hell has time for that old nags.
No wounder its been 20years and you still cant get shoes on your
horse.Thats why you have to have them all pts with problem.You have
not got time to deal with them.You are all to busy clique on hear.
Bet none of you are going hunting or olympia or just been to hoys
nothing on the competing section none of your names anyway.Well i would
Rather be with my family and horse than talk rubbish with rubbish
On hear what a waste of a week looking at this rubbish.42,000posts
who does that.Brain dead zombies
		
Click to expand...

By what right have you got to call me an old nag and a brain dead zombie?

Reporting you. I am so sick of posters like you who cannot even TRY to have a balanced argument, it's just all insults.


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## Amymay (13 November 2013)

Pssst, Dragonslayer - check your avatar.  You are an old nag


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## Antw23uk (13 November 2013)

Wagtail said:



			And here lies your answer. Most knowledgeable horse people will be familiar with the way completely strange horses, when put into an unfamiliar environment, away from their own long term buddies, will bond very quickly and very strongly. It is a prey animals survival instinct. To then move them away before they are secure in their new environment is asking for trouble. Obviously not all horses are going to react the way your new boy did, but I can tell you one thing, my horse of a lifetime that I just had PTS two days ago would have done that when I first got her. No doubt about it whatsoever. So many people told me to get rid. And you know what? She turned out to be the best horse I could ever have wished for. My true soulmate who I will never be able to replace.
		
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I can assure you digitalangel is a very knowledgable horse person and the moving to a new paddock sounds a lot more than it actually is. This was simply a case of moving him from one side of the electric tape to the other, thats how close the next paddock was (Its obviously easy for me to visualize as I livery at this private yard so thought I would step in to clear that up)
I'm sorry to hear about your horse being PTS.


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## MotherOfChickens (13 November 2013)

who is this banned poster?


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## DragonSlayer (13 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Pssst, Dragonslayer - check your avatar.  You are an old nag 

Click to expand...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I REFUSE to believe it!


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## Booboos (13 November 2013)

If you decide to turn him out again get another person to help you, leave him and one other horse (ideally the horse that will end up next to him) until last and turn out together. Then reverse the process for brining in, i.e. get someone to help you bring him in first with his 'friend', but make sure you catch him first and the other person with the other horse stays close to you rather than walking off in the distance. This has worked for me in the past, although I hope it doesn't make things worse for you, you never know with horses!


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## Amaranta (13 November 2013)

*wonders if her chushings is playing up*


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## HazyXmas (13 November 2013)

The last horse i bought reared vertical the first time i tried to get on him in his new home - he took time to settle but i got help and took him back to baby basics and he was fine after a few weeks - i bought from a dealer who was very shocked and offered to take im back straight away but i decided i would give him the benefit of the doubt. I sold him being completely honest in that he was slightly cold-backed and would need time to settle in a new home. I had a 3 year old fresh off the boat from Holland that ran me into fences and had me off more times that i can count. He wasnt great with electric either but he was running to horses, not away from them. i bought him as a project and sold him on 6 months later to an amazing home. So its not like i havent worked through these types of issues before. I have also in the past over-horsed myself and cut my losses and sold the mare on after 9 months of trying and we just didnt click. That was a while ago now though. I also mentioned before i had a horse that would bolt when being led, but again, not through fencing and always had some self-preservation. I worked through her issues too and while never completely cured her behavior did improve. I swapped her for my old girl. My old boy ( in my sig ) had a year out of work and was a nightmare to start again with. Again i realised when i needed help, and got some help with him and he turned out completely fine. My PSD boy when i first moved to my current place also reared vertical the first time i asked him to hack. I sat it and had him walk on with someone on the floor to give him confidence. I later found out this behavior was more likely pain related and is now being dealt with.

Please don't take this the wrong way OP, but could it be you? I've just read the whole thread & the paragraph above really stood out for me, you do seem to have had much more than your fair share of problems when buying horses. Are you attracted to difficult, quirky horses? Or maybe you feel nervous around a new one when they first arrive & they pick up on this?

I hate getting new horses, it's always the most problematic time while everyone adjusts to the newcomer, but over the last 25 years i've bought 25-30 horses as well as having other's for loan or in to sell, & i've not had anything like the problems you've experienced with yours. 

I think it's a good idea that you are having your vet out to check the horse, better to know if there is some physical problem.

Best of luck with him, i hope that you both stay safe.


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## digitalangel (13 November 2013)

hes just barged through the stable door. thankfully didnt go anywhere but now have broken stable door. Hes quite agitated this morning. His buddy is next to him. hes just taken the top bolt off.


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## digitalangel (13 November 2013)

I didnt list all the good ones, just the ones that were problems. Its horses!


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## Amymay (13 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			hes just barged through the stable door. thankfully didnt go anywhere but now have broken stable door. Hes quite agitated this morning. His buddy is next to him. hes just taken the top bolt off.
		
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I'm not surprised really.  He needs to be turned out.


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## buddy's mummy (13 November 2013)

I'd have him returned to breeder or shot..he is a danger to himself and others! and will be a drain on your finances replacing stable doors, fences etc god knows what else he will take out!


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## Bucephalus Steell (13 November 2013)

Hello OP and others,

First of all I&#8217;m glad you are ok &#8211; and keep an eye on that knee they are certainly not to be ignored if damaged.

A few years back we had a pony that was a true star, she jumped 1.20m tracks all day long had all the younger kids on her jumping round 1m tracks to get them going at big shows with lots of things going on. We had had her about 12 years when she went out on loan (same yard) to a lady that didn&#8217;t have loads of experience but the pony was slowing down a bit in the workload we wanted for her. Basically the lady wanted to learn to jump a bit hack out etc. one day after 3 weeks of having her she was lunging and the pony just went. She ran off the yard (we couldn&#8217;t get the several gates closed in time having just had hay delivered) ran through traffic a village horns honking cars skidding the full terrifying job. We &#8216;chased her&#8217; in a car and she eventually stopped and we got her just before a motorway joining. She just ran and ran and ran. The lady said she was lunging and she just went. Now I have no idea what made her go that day, the lady I don&#8217;t think had done anything to warrant that and such an easy well mannered mare I cant imagine what made her go. We knew her inside out and we had her old rider get back on her slowly (not that day!!) and work with her. She settled back with us jumping her tracks and winning classes never saw behaviour like that from her ever again. Thing is we had 12 years of riding the pony and knowing it inside out and she still did it and we had an established friend to put her straight.

I personally do not think that you did anything to warrant that reaction. What I would say to the above it that we have had others, that were broken and could not be fixed. In the above case she has her old jockey get on and see what&#8217;s going on with her. There wasn&#8217;t much to do she had her old friend back and just carried on like nothing had happened. You are not a friend of this horse, you don&#8217;t know its background and let me tell you even after she &#8216;went&#8217; I wasn&#8217;t queuing to jump back on her and see what was doing. I&#8217;m very sorry for your experience and I&#8217;m very conscious that you have the same fears (if he did it again people could get v v injured) my rambling point Is this &#8211; he&#8217;s a project horse which has put an amount of uncertainty in your dealings with him &#8211; do you think this is going to progress well? 

I absolutely admire you for working with him &#8211; I don&#8217;t know what I would do in your situation &#8211; I wasn&#8217;t comfortable with seeing a pony id known for a long time do  that and one I trust so very best of luck with your decisions. I don&#8217;t think you can make a wrong decision by the way, so long you keep in mind the bigger picture of your own safety and other peoples (hopefully this thought school should cover his safety too). best of luck to you &#8211; you sound like a very caring person trying to do the right thing x


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## YasandCrystal (13 November 2013)

buddy's mummy said:



			I'd have him returned to breeder or shot..he is a danger to himself and others! and will be a drain on your finances replacing stable doors, fences etc god knows what else he will take out!
		
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This is a very drastic suggestion. My very relaxed horses would be barging out of stables if I left them cooped up too in a new environment. Horses are flight animals - a stable can be a scary vulnerable place for them. I am glad I am not a pet in your household!


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## Rouletterose (13 November 2013)

Work him, he's ridden isn't he? get a friend over and give hime a good work session, something to think about. Get him into a firm routine straight away, the horse doesn't know whether he's coming or going, he needs someone to tell him and that's you.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (13 November 2013)

YasandCrystal said:



			This is a very drastic suggestion. My very relaxed horses would be barging out of stables if I left them cooped up too in a new environment. Horses are flight animals - a stable can be a scary vulnerable place for them. I am glad I am not a pet in your household!
		
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agree.



Rouletterose said:



			Work him, he's ridden isn't he? get a friend over and give hime a good work session, something to think about. Get him into a firm routine straight away, the horse doesn't know whether he's coming or going, he needs someone to tell him and that's you.
		
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and agree!


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## MerrySherryRider (13 November 2013)

Rouletterose said:



			Work him, he's ridden isn't he? get a friend over and give hime a good work session, something to think about. Get him into a firm routine straight away, the horse doesn't know whether he's coming or going, he needs someone to tell him and that's you.
		
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Agree with you absolutely.


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## Quenotte (13 November 2013)

I must say I am a bit shocked with all people on there who said PTS. Should all the young green horses be PTS as soon as they misbehave ?
I know lots of horses who bolted, escaped, bite, kicked but they havent been PTS.
The OP says she is experienced so I am sure she can work on him her magic. She needs people to support her and gives her more confidence after her ordeal.
I fully agree he needs to get exercised, maybe lunged in the pen if you dont feel like riding him straight away. 
Keeping him in his stable without enough exercise and turn out is definetely not good.
I wish I would be close to you because I would offer my help. Maybe some people on the boards who live next to you could offer their help??
If you try turning him out again, maybe you should do it after lunging him so he will be hopefully calmer. Good luck and sending you a lot of positive thoughst!


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## buddy's mummy (13 November 2013)

YasandCrystal said:



			This is a very drastic suggestion. My very relaxed horses would be barging out of stables if I left them cooped up too in a new environment. Horses are flight animals - a stable can be a scary vulnerable place for them. I am glad I am not a pet in your household!
		
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thats a bit nasty too...the horse that digitalangel is describing sounds dangerous, if everytime he goes in a field he blind bolts, imagine driving down the road with one coming towards your car windscreen?! would you then think I was being drastic?


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## Quenotte (13 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Sorry should have been more clear about the issue re rugs the first night he was t in stable was in my turnout pen as he was completely chilled with the rugs SI far .  That of course doesn't mean they didn't spook him but I think it was probably more likely the nasty fall into the fence taking the post out with him which likely zapped him and caused the bolt . When I got him home he was soaked to the bone and I was forced to put him in a sweat rug as I did not want to risk a chill . It came off once he was dry ad he's been unrugged since .  But of all the things that have happened hea been surprisingly good about rugging and loading .
		
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The OP explained that the running off was because he had a nasty fall into the fence taking the post out with him. So that's hopefully just a one-off unfortunate accident very unlikely to repeat itself. It was not just a question of turning him out.
For sure he was used to be turned out at the breeder. You can see how unhappy he is to be kept in his stable, he is probably used ot the routine of being turned out in the morning and lots of horses I know go crazy in their stable if they are not turned out in the morning as they are used to.
So IMO he just needs time to get used to his new life thats all.


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## Tiddlypom (13 November 2013)

Give DA a break, please people who reckon the horse is now misbehaving because he's stir crazy at being stabled.

I'm sure DA would much rather he was moseying around the field, relaxing. What she DOESN'T want is a repeat of the terrifying escape onto the road. 

It's common for new horses to take time to settle, but most of us take it as a given that we can contain the dang things on the premises during the process!


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (13 November 2013)

buddy's mummy said:



			thats a bit nasty too...the horse that digitalangel is describing sounds dangerous, if everytime he goes in a field he blind bolts, imagine driving down the road with one coming towards your car windscreen?! would you then think I was being drastic?
		
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he's been out ONCE? got upset by his mate/other horses being moved around (which i personally would not do on his first day there) got a shock from the fence, and possibly a fright from the rug.

if we were talking about a horse that just went hell for leather in to the sunset repeatedly, day after day, time after time i could see your point, but you are advocating PTS a healthy horse that potentially will settle down, if not with the OP, with someone else.

as ive said before, this was an unfortunate series of events but lets not be too dramatic about what to do now...........................


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## buddy's mummy (13 November 2013)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			he's been out ONCE? got upset by his mate/other horses being moved around (which i personally would not do on his first day there) got a shock from the fence, and possibly a fright from the rug.

if we were talking about a horse that just went hell for leather in to the sunset repeatedly, day after day, time after time i could see your point, but you are advocating PTS a healthy horse that potentially will settle down, if not with the OP, with someone else.

as ive said before, this was an unfortunate series of events but lets not be too dramatic about what to do now...........................
		
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I see your point but it has tried to barge out of its stable also.


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## HazyXmas (13 November 2013)

DA's vet is the best person to advise her once he's had a chance to assess the horse.

 I know that he must be very unhappy to have been in for the last 24 hours, especially if he's spent most of his life out, but i do agree with DA that her safety & that of the general public must come first.

  If it's felt that turning out is worth another try, maybe he can give a sedative for a couple of days until he's had a proper chance to settle & make a friend or two. 

Is there any news from the Vet DA?


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (13 November 2013)

but it hasnt.its tried, been told no, and hasnt managed it.

again, if it had jumped out then fled the yard leaving a trail of carnage in its wake, id be taking a different view. or it had bust the door off its hinges and done the same, again, diff view.

its a naive, green, upset, unsettled horse, that (in my opinion) was set up to fail by the situation it was placed in.

again, i think PTS is ridiculously drastic.


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## digitalangel (13 November 2013)

I agree with everyone regarding not keeping it locked up in a stable - likely it will explode. But that is the place where he seems most comfortable and safe right at this moment. Small steps. given hes barged out, and just gone to eat grass hes saying hes happy to start exploring so ive put him in the turnout pen and sitting on the loo because the loo window is the only one that looks out to the pen. So i will be working on the loo for the rest of the afternoon. I watched him in person first. He checked for his possible exits, now hes standing calmly by the gate. Im away this weekend and i dont want to lump other people with handling him/having to handwalk him, so i am hoping we can keep building up he turnout and he remains calm. 2 other horses are also in, 1 is his buddy and 2 is my other horse on box rest. i the evening i will work with him in the stable getting him used to me grooming etc, and see how we go.

It seems he is a LOT more stressy in the mornings. by the afternoon he almost seems dopey.

That said this is not what i was after in terms of a horse at all and i struggling for time and relying on others because i cant and shouldnt be handling him alone. so for that reason i would still want him to go back. Im starting legal proceedings. they knew damn well i needed something that was safe to handle on my own because i explained that to them over and over that im alone on he yard for quite a few days in the week.


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## Tiddlypom (13 November 2013)

The horse has only escaped the once so far, but it was a miracle that no one was killed or injured on the roads when he did so.

IF it happens again, innocent people may well not be so lucky. 

Some people, who have never even met the horse, seem to be sure that it was a one off, never to be repeated. 

Will you all stand up to back up DA at the inquests then if the horse bolts again and this time there are fatalities?

ETA DA I've just seen your latest post, I admire what you're doing with him, hope you get a safe resolution to it all.


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## MadBlackLab (13 November 2013)

Tiddlypom said:



			The horse has only escaped the once so far, but it was a miracle that no one was killed or injured on the roads when he did so.

IF it happens again, innocent people may well not be so lucky. 

Some people, who have never even met the horse, seem to be sure that it was a one off, never to be repeated. 

Will you all stand up to back up DA at the inquests then if the horse bolts again and this time there are fatalities?
		
Click to expand...

How you sure its not a one off?


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## Tiddlypom (13 November 2013)

I'm not sure if it was a one off or not, nobody does....


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## Ladyinred (13 November 2013)

DigitalAngel must be losing the will to live reading this thread. I don't think I have ever read so much conflicting advice.

Carry on as you are DA, you seem to have patience and sense and will do the best you are able. I hope you are able to get the breeder to take him back.. it sounds a very strange story on their part.


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## buddy's mummy (13 November 2013)

Tiddlypom said:



			The horse has only escaped the once so far, but it was a miracle that no one was killed or injured on the roads when he did so.

IF it happens again, innocent people may well not be so lucky. 

Some people, who have never even met the horse, seem to be sure that it was a one off, never to be repeated. 

Will you all stand up to back up DA at the inquests then if the horse bolts again and this time there are fatalities?

ETA DA I've just seen your latest post, I admire what you're doing with him, hope you get a safe resolution to it all.
		
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this!


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## cptrayes (13 November 2013)

Tiddlypom said:



			The horse has only escaped the once so far, but it was a miracle that no one was killed or injured on the roads when he did so.

IF it happens again, innocent people may well not be so lucky. 

Some people, who have never even met the horse, seem to be sure that it was a one off, never to be repeated. 

Will you all stand up to back up DA at the inquests then if the horse bolts again and this time there are fatalities?

ETA DA I've just seen your latest post, I admire what you're doing with him, hope you get a safe resolution to it all.
		
Click to expand...


If it happens again and he kills or injures a couple of motorists with dependants to support, the owner has what is called 'a priori' knowledge of the danger she put the motorists in. Her public liability limit on her insurance could easily be exceeded leaving her open to losing everything she owns in damages to the injured, dead, and their dependants.

For the moment she has no safe option but to keep him stabled or penned in an unbreakable area..

With so many nice horses needing homes, I would not blame her for getting rid of this disturbed creature any way she can. His reactions so far have been abnormal. He may settle, he may always be a bit crazy like one of mine was*. Who would willingly take that risk?





* at four he broke stable doors down. At ten, he was settled at home but if ever put in  stable away from home he broke the door down. He was put down at ten because he was a wobbler, but I don't believe he would ever have changed.


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## buddy's mummy (13 November 2013)

cptrayes said:



			If it happens again and he kills or injures a couple of motorists with dependants to support, the owner has what is called 'a priori' knowledge of the danger she put the motorists in. Her public liability limit on her insurance could easily be exceeded leaving her open to losing everything she owns in damages to the injured, dead, and their dependants.

For the moment she has no safe option but to keep him stabled or penned in an unbreakable area..

With so many nice horses needing homes, I would not blame her for getting rid of this disturbed creature any way she can. His reactions so far have been abnormal. He may settle, he may always be a bit crazy like one of mine was*. Who would willingly take that risk?





* at four he broke stable doors down. At ten, he was settled at home but if ever put in  stable away from home he broke the door down. He was put down at ten because he was a wobbler, but I don't believe he would ever have changed.
		
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I agree


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## doriangrey (13 November 2013)

I wouldn't be riding him either.  He went through several fences bolted for 5 miles and if I recall correctly fell at least once.  Apart from obvious lumps and bumps he's likely to be sore enough at the very least.  I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction DA.


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## Fellewell (13 November 2013)

You say it's worse/ he's more reactive in the morning. He's an Appaloosa, could this be ERU?


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## Lambkins (13 November 2013)

^^^^^ I agree with this .. If someone got hurt/ killed and somehow this thread came to light op could loose everything  this horse needs to go back to the breeder


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## Goldenstar (13 November 2013)

DA get him returned if you can .
Poor horse.


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## Lambkins (13 November 2013)

If it happens again and he kills or injures a couple of motorists with dependants to support, the owner has what is called 'a priori' knowledge of the danger she put the motorists in. Her public liability limit on her insurance could easily be exceeded leaving her open to losing everything she owns in damages to the injured, dead, and their dependants.

For the moment she has no safe option but to keep him stabled or penned in an unbreakable area..

With so many nice horses needing homes, I would not blame her for getting rid of this disturbed creature any way she can. His reactions so far have been abnormal. He may settle, he may always be a bit crazy like one of mine was*. Who would willingly take that risk?





* at four he broke stable doors down. At ten, he was settled at home but if ever put in stable away from home he broke the door down. He was put down at ten because he was a wobbler, but I don't believe he would ever have changed. 


 100% agree with this


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## fattylumpkin (13 November 2013)

Tiddlypom said:



			The horse has only escaped the once so far, but it was a miracle that no one was killed or injured on the roads when he did so.

IF it happens again, innocent people may well not be so lucky. 

Some people, who have never even met the horse, seem to be sure that it was a one off, never to be repeated. 

Will you all stand up to back up DA at the inquests then if the horse bolts again and this time there are fatalities?

ETA DA I've just seen your latest post, I admire what you're doing with him, hope you get a safe resolution to it all.
		
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Definitely this.

I learned from a horrific accident that there's a difference between a horse prone to having a high spirited explosions and a horse that turns red zone at the flip of some internal switch.  If they do the latter once, you don't want to be around when it happens a second time.  A childhood friend of mine was too in love with her new horse to let it go and the second time it bolted with her it galloped over a hedge flat out into the side of a house.  Horse had to be put down on the spot and she ended up in intensive with ruptured organs.  I've had horses bolt with me but never like that, it was terrifying.


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## digitalangel (13 November 2013)

Fellewell said:



			You say it's worse/ he's more reactive in the morning. He's an Appaloosa, could this be ERU?
		
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The only appaloosa-specific disease i was aware of was PSSM/EPSM and they told me both parents had tested negative. i held off buying him/viewing him again until i knew the results of the test. Im off to google appaloosa ERU. Ive had warmbloods most of my life, a few TB's and ponies too. Never had an appy before but so i guess i lack knowledge there. 

Vet not coming till tomorrow now  i honestly dont think in my heart of hearts he was doped, having used sedatives myself before ( for legitimate reasons!! ) you can normally tell. or at least i think i would. Thing is about this horse as i think he keeps his worry to himself until he explodes out of him. Hes also surprisingly sound given what hes been through. 

He stuck like glue to the turnout pen gate for most of the time today, so hes taking comfort in being close to other horses. Thats OK but i kinda would like to ride his ' buddy ' at some point and said buddy is starting to get fed up of being in most of the time


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## buddy's mummy (13 November 2013)

Do whats right OP, do not put anyone at risk for the sake of a horse!!


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## digitalangel (13 November 2013)

and yes completely agree was an utter miracle.


no, wont be riding him any time soon, he is still sore. need to sort getting him feeling like the doesnt need to leave the yard, or the village or the county in general first. riding and exercise will come, but given i am away this weekend am sticking to the current routine which i know others who will have to step in and do him will be comfortable with.


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## digitalangel (13 November 2013)

fattylumpkin - i dont really have a choice. its either this or he eats a bullet now because it will be a long and arduous road to get the breeder to take him back. But the wheels have been put in motion in any case.


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## Booboos (13 November 2013)

cptrayes said:



			If it happens again and he kills or injures a couple of motorists with dependants to support, the owner has what is called 'a priori' knowledge of the danger she put the motorists in. Her public liability limit on her insurance could easily be exceeded leaving her open to losing everything she owns in damages to the injured, dead, and their dependants.
		
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Sorry but I don't think this is right. 'A priori' is knowledge arrived at purely through reason (deductive) as opposed to 'a posteriori', that is knowledge arrived at through experience (inductive). So 'all kittens are young cats' is a priori, but 'there are three kittens in my kitchen' is a posteriori.

Could you mean 'prior knowledge'? Not sure this would matter anyway as I think that animal owners have strict liability with respect to the actions of their animals, i.e. horses are flight animals so the possibility of flight is known to all horse owners and accepted when purchasing any horse.


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## cptrayes (13 November 2013)

Booboos said:



			Sorry but I don't think this is right. 'A priori' is knowledge arrived at purely through reason (deductive) as opposed to 'a posteriori', that is knowledge arrived at through experience (inductive). So 'all kittens are young cats' is a priori, but 'there are three kittens in my kitchen' is a posteriori.

Could you mean 'prior knowledge'? Not sure this would matter anyway as I think that animal owners have strict liability with respect to the actions of their animals, i.e. horses are flight animals so the possibility of flight is known to all horse owners and accepted when purchasing any horse.
		
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Thank you for your correction   I have seen the term used, it seems incorrectly,  in the sense I used it.

My point was that it is not normal for horses to bolt through multiple fences, nor to travel on for another five miles to a major road once they have done so. The insurers might well be able to fight a liability claim on that basis. But knowing the horse has already done it once, neither they nor the owner would have a leg to stand on if it did it again and killed or injured people.

Thankfully the owner has more sense than to take that risk in spite of the posters insisting that the horse needs to be turned out.


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## Rose Folly (13 November 2013)

Really sorry to read of your experience today. Horrid for you, and you'll be all shaken up.

Have got to go out, but what Abacus said on Page 1 makes sense. Start again - very very slowly. Keep him stabled until he's really settled, and meanwhile, as you have other horses, get them used to each other with stable doors between them. When he does go out, hack out first with another horse and, after a good tiring ride, turn them loose together (letting the older, wiser one loose first). 

You've had a horrid scare, but so has he. Horses often behave completely out of character in new surroundings. You said 'straight from the breeder'. Perhaps he's never even been away from home before. Give him a chance. My bet is that things will improve - just slowly, slowly, slowly. And give that poor knee time to recover too.


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## MadBlackLab (13 November 2013)

cptrayes said:



			My point was that it is not normal for horses to bolt through multiple fences, nor to travel on for another five miles to a major road once they have done so. The insurers might well be able to fight a liability claim on that basis. But knowing the horse has already done it once, neither they nor the owner would have a leg to stand on if it did it again and killed or injured people.
		
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No horses should not bolt through multiple fences  and carry on for 5 miles but we have domasticated horses that is against their natural instinct so where do we stop with 'a horse shouldn't'


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## fattylumpkin (13 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			fattylumpkin - i dont really have a choice. its either this or he eats a bullet now because it will be a long and arduous road to get the breeder to take him back. But the wheels have been put in motion in any case.
		
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I hope it's all resolved quickly, one way or another, and in the meantime I'll be sending you vibes!  Stay safe


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## cptrayes (13 November 2013)

HandleyCross said:



			No horses should not bolt through multiple fences  and carry on for 5 miles but we have domasticated horses that is against their natural instinct so where do we stop with 'a horse shouldn't'
		
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I don't understand your point?  My comment was about public liability??


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## bensababy (13 November 2013)

PolarSkye said:



			Yoda?

P
		
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The force is not with that one for sure!


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## Fellewell (13 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			The only appaloosa-specific disease i was aware of was PSSM/EPSM and they told me both parents had tested negative. i held off buying him/viewing him again until i knew the results of the test. Im off to google appaloosa ERU. Ive had warmbloods most of my life, a few TB's and ponies too. Never had an appy before but so i guess i lack knowledge there. 

Vet not coming till tomorrow now  i honestly dont think in my heart of hearts he was doped, having used sedatives myself before ( for legitimate reasons!! ) you can normally tell. or at least i think i would. Thing is about this horse as i think he keeps his worry to himself until he explodes out of him. Hes also surprisingly sound given what hes been through. 

He stuck like glue to the turnout pen gate for most of the time today, so hes taking comfort in being close to other horses. Thats OK but i kinda would like to ride his ' buddy ' at some point and said buddy is starting to get fed up of being in most of the time 

Click to expand...

It's just something to be aware of. If his world is shades and outlines I expect he'd rather they were familiar ones. He seems very good to box/travel and when you viewed he was stabled. I cared for a horse with ERU and she spent most of her time in a poorly lit stable. This was years ago though I expect science has moved on. 
I bet you could use a good night's sleep


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## mon (13 November 2013)

We once bought a so called kids pony from an auction which then turned into a nightmare, pulled away by putting shoulder in to you, bucked and was nasty to catch, but once a walker on footpath said he had worried him, no option but meat man, as couldn't do with that responsibility as once informed of dangerous animal then an added liability.


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## meesha (13 November 2013)

My chap I said about earlier who has jumped out and taken off/bolted is an appy.    From what I have seen from mine and others they are often intelligent, mine is bold and brave but friends is more spooky etc.  I would be tempted to try him again with a friend in the paddock, make sure there is no reason for him to leave, no potential friends just out of sight, plenty of food in paddock, no visible exits.  If you are going away the weekend I would try it tomorrow and the next day before you go and then after vet has been leave sedalin at yard Just in case.

Not sure where u r in the country but my fields are very secure and lead onto lane etc no main road, I also have retired mare he would never have to be parted from so before u decide to pts if appropriate contact me, I am not judging if you do pts but just offering other options. 

Take care


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## texas (13 November 2013)

Lovely offer meesha. Good luck DA.


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## windand rain (13 November 2013)

Many many years ago when I was a late teen my horse jumped out of his field and ran back to his old home, He was hit by a car the driver died and the horse spent over an hour in agony waiting for a vet to shoot it. All caused because I didnt expect him to be bother about moving (young and naive me, first horse rode him from his old home to his new one so he knew his way back) I now never take them to a new home without using enclosed transport. This was a very sensible settled horse that decided to go home as a trained showjumper he cleared a 6ft fence and was gone in minutes.  very sad circumstance but one that with increasing road traffic and less tolerance is even more likely now. There is nothing wrong with putting to sleep an unwanted horse there are not thousands of horse gurus that will or can deal with quirky horses and there are a lot of problem horses whose lifestyle can only be guaranteed by those willing to pts if they cant keep  their charge. All those horrified at the thought please think carefully about it if you couldnt keep your horse what would you do there is no market there is a great likelihood of bottom end horses ending up in hands that through ignorance or neglect will suffer horrendously. When you can buy a horse for less than you would pay for a bar of chocolate just how committed do you think those owners are going to be. We have already seen sensational stories of people rescuing from the meat man just for those poor animals to end up in very dire straights or the rescuers looking for good homes for them these homes just dont exist there is probably at the moment about 10 horses for every good home available what would you do with the rest.
My dangerous horse will live with me until I can no longer keep him well when although he is only young he will be shot. 
OP you are a saint to even try to help him but if it comes to him having to stay with you as the breeders wont have him back then it is purely your decision and if PTS is the thing that fits for both of you so no one gets hurt then do so with my blessing it is a brave and sensible decision. Not one taken lightly but you didnt take on the responsibility of a dangerous to himself horse you thought you had a nice youngster to bring on and get going. To put in non emotional terms if you bought a car that the brakes failed and were lucky enough to survive you wouldnt drive it again until it was either fixed if economically viable or scrapped and melted down. If he had been a car you would have returned forthwith the law is the same for a horse but people become all holier than thou because it is a sentient being There are far worse things in life for animals than a dignified death regardless of age or reason


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## Farma (13 November 2013)

I recently had a very similar situation happen can i ask where you got him from? Pm if you prefer


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## Flame_ (13 November 2013)

When you first ride him, if you do ride him, do it in an indoor and if he's not used to one, take him to one to practice in first.


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## Turks (13 November 2013)

On main H&H site... 

Man charged after loose horses cause fatal crash

A man will appear in court charged with causing a public nuisance after his horses were involved in a fatal accident on the A14 on Christmas Eve last year.

Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news...horses-cause-fatal-crash/#1MPyK66q8M01aqjW.99

We all have to be so damn careful... Its not just a question of liability. It can be a criminal matter. Bottom-line - its life and death. 

Sorry DA - I know you are more than aware of risks. Thought it was worth emphasizing for one or two out there nevertheless


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## digitalangel (13 November 2013)

windand rain - i want to thank you for posting. This must have been a very brave post indeed. i cant imagine how you must have felt - id you have to go to court or an inquest?

Farma - i dont think its the same person you got yours from, i could be wrong but mine isnt a dealer as such, just a breeder.

I just wish i could see some improvement. He wasnt happy tonight having me in the stable for the most part, again he tolerated me and he had another all-over groom but he wasnt happy especially around his back end and again lifted a leg.  There are glimpses of him settling but for the most part you can just see how tense he is, except hes holding it all inside, not like my wussy warmbloods whos snorts of worry can be heard in the next county! Not being able to read him at all.  I really feel so sorry for him. Im still not convinced he will ever settle, i hope im wrong but not much progress being made yet, but early days. 






windand rain said:



			Many many years ago when I was a late teen my horse jumped out of his field and ran back to his old home, He was hit by a car the driver died and the horse spent over an hour in agony waiting for a vet to shoot it.
		
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## YorksG (14 November 2013)

Appys can be odd creatures, the first mare we had got onto a road loose twice the first six weeks that we had her! The first time was when the livery yard put her in a 'new' field and she walked out over the poor fencing, fortunately a local farmer herded her with his truck and put her in a spare loose box. She called and called when she heard us get there (they had shut the top door as they feared she would jump out). The scond time she broke an unbreakable head collar while panicking at a double decker bus on a narrow road, she ran off to a field with horses she was turned out with. We moved after six weeks, leading her the four miles to the new yard (she didn't load) with our hearts in our mouths, at one point thinking we may have to break the journey by putting her in a field! About half way there it was as if a switch had been flicked and she was our horse and happy to be where ever we were. We kept her for the next 24 years and while she was always 'interesting' she was great fun and very much part of the family. She is the reason we have gone on to have two more Appys.


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## windand rain (14 November 2013)

45 years later it is still traumatic the inquest and PM couldnt prove whether the man died from the accident or the accident was caused by his death but for a very long time the family were in limbo not knowing how it was going to turn out. Both the horse and man were dead so nothing could make it any better it was a very dark time in my life. Horse broke both his front legs and the vet didnt get there for over an hour. To this day even if they go only a few hundred yards they go in an enclosed trailer or lorry I will not lead them or ride them away from their familiar surroundings to a new home. It nearly killed my dad who was heartbroken and had to inform me of the accident and I took a very long time to recover from his death, and be able to talk about it at all


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## Turks (14 November 2013)

Windandrain - There but for the grace of G go the rest of us. How absolutely horrible all round. Thanks for telling.


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## Girlracer (14 November 2013)

In all honesty, I'm really quite surprised by all suggestions to PTS. At the end of the day, none of us were there, but it sounds as though a series of events on his first day with you led to him going in to a total panic. And now, with that as his first experience he is understandably pretty un-settled. He's now been locked in a stable (understandably) for a prolonged period of time, was probably sore from the accident which has been made worse by standing in. You say he's un-comfortable with you grooming him and has raised a leg? Well is it not probable he is pretty darn sore? 

This to me sounds like a scared, confused and upset animal. Obviously it's an awful situation for you to be in but I do not feel as though this horse has really been given a fair chance. Appy's can be extremely sensitive, and he's not had a great time of it since he arrived at yours.

FWIW I have a private yard, at the end of an extremely long gated drive. He would not get near a road if he was to get loose. Please before you tar him dangerous and shoot it send me a message, I feel quite strongly that this horse does not need a bullet. 

Really hope you come to a solution soon.


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## Jenna1406 (14 November 2013)

OP I hope you are getting on OK with this horse.  Again, I take my hat off you to for doing this.  If I lived closer I would have happily lent a hand.

Again, think about your safety first.


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## Goldenstar (14 November 2013)

DA what did the vet say?
  There is a supplement available from the vets for settling horses on box rest.
Some horses are very susceptible to liquid Valerian if he was here I would try that first.
And I would be using sedation , sedalin or what ever the vet advises when you change things .
It's just too soon to say he will never settle .
I have dealt with ' rough broke ' Irish horses who took six months to stop leg lifting and and bum swinging.
They don't trust quickly why should they .
Do you have a school ?
If so after the weekend I would start gentle lunging even if it's all walk halt if he's still sore twice daily to get his interest.
I would also start changing the horse in the stable next to him , hes going to absorb a lot of time that's for sure that's projects fot you.


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## DJ (14 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			DA what did the vet say?
		
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digitalangel said:



			Vet not coming till tomorrow now  (
		
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In yesterdays post at 5pm x


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## Goldenstar (14 November 2013)

daisysp8 said:



			In yesterdays post at 5pm x
		
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OP's missed that sorry.


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## digitalangel (14 November 2013)

Hi Yes hes been checked out now - no vision issues or health issues that the vet can see, yes hes sore all over so been advised to just keep him quiet and the turnout is the best place for that because he can move around if he wants but still has his buddies there. Hes resting now in the turnout and having a doze. Turning him out first into the turnout pen seems to keep him calmer. 

He wont eat hard feed, i have sedalin and valerian and magic calmer to hand.


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## digitalangel (14 November 2013)

and yes have a school. when hes less sore we will start work in there.


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## TrasaM (14 November 2013)

Good to hear he's having a snooze. He must be relaxing a bit if he's decided its safe enough to sleep. Poor lad. Even if the fall hadn't hurt him I bet a five mile gallop will have left him stiff and sore all over. Well done on persevering with him. Onwards and upwards and fingers crossed for you both.


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## Rouletterose (14 November 2013)

I do wish you well with him but it all seems a little strange to be fair to him.

you got him home fine and turned him out with another horse and he was fine. He had a rug on and was fine.
You rode him twice, and he was fine, the second time you tacked him up yourself in the stable and he was fine.
you said he was not strong to ride.

I would say all his issues are confidence issues and separation anxiety especially as I understand he has come from the breeder? A bolting horse is petrifying for anyone especially if you are riding at the time, which luckily you were not. 

He needs to work, start schooling him and let him start to get attached to you, you are the one saying what is happening. Make sure you have someone experienced with you, but if you are nervous then get an instructor to start him off for you the first week or two so he doesn't pick up on your nerves.

Don't put yourself in danger but try to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Good luck take your time, do everything slowly and breathe.


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## diamonddogs (14 November 2013)

Wanted to finish reading everything before I posted 

Whatever it is you're doing must be OK if he's relaxing enough to snooze! I wonder if he seems to have gone back a step when being groomed because his aches and pains are starting to come out now. I think the quicker you can establish his routine the better - my mare was up on her hind legs once because someone had the temerity to introduce a new yardbrush without checking with her first!

There's a gelding on our yard who won't tolerate rugs when he goes out. He wears his fleece pyjamas at night and never bats an eyelid, but as soon as he's turned out in a rug he turns into a screaming banshee. He was turned out for ten minutes in the school while his owner mucked his stable out, and when she went to fetch him he'd tried to run through a hedge and slashed his knee to ribbons. His owner has no clue as to why he has such an extreme reaction to rugs as he was always fine for years. This ex-racehorse happily goes out in all weathers naked these days.

Good luck and keep on doing what you're doing, and it looks like you've got a couple of offers to take him if things don't come right for you.


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## Goldenstar (14 November 2013)

Hope today has gone ok DA.


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## Shysmum (14 November 2013)

I'm not able to go through all the threads, but I want to say, hope everything is going ok your end DA.


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## Moomin1 (14 November 2013)

Hats off to you op, that must have been some rally driving! :-o


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## Elsbells (14 November 2013)

How terrifying ! 

I hope there's a good outcome to all this.


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## devonlass (15 November 2013)

Were the breeders based in Cornwall by any chance??

I read through your posts with as much surprise and shock at 'what might have been' as no doubt most other posters on here (I say most as there are always the ones who know better of course ;-)),and then I got to page 16 and the post where you mentioned he is an appaloosa,and have to be honest his behaviour seemed a lot less surprising.

I say that as someone who owns an appy BTW and I love my lad very much,but they can be IME hard work and quirky souls.Incredibly rewarding when it goes well,but never straight forward or easy.

That's not said to sway your opinion or be negative,just might shed a bit of light on his nature and inclination for the drama ;-).

They can make amazing life-long equine friends,and are actually highly trainable if you can keep their attention and interest,but they need the work and time put in and cannot be rushed.They are prone to anxiety and over reacting,and this can make bringing them on very slow progress.

This is all just my opinion and experience,and also what I have gleaned from talking to other appy owners,and of course not necessarily true for all appy's,and possibly not even relevant to your situation,but it would seem they do have certain traits that make them a little 'unique' shall we say.
I will shut up now as I could go on about them all day,but wanted to wish you the best of luck if you persevere with him,I am sure for what it's worth he would be worth it,but equally no one will blame you if you don't.Mine has been 4 years of hard work and frustration (so far!!) and some days I think we still have some way to go,but others I think 'wow' he's come such a long way.

Keep yourself safe,and do whatever is best for yourself,your other horses and circumstances.Holding good thoughts for you whatever you decide


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## Saneta (15 November 2013)

Hope today is happier for you both, and that  you manage to get away OK this weekend.


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## MagicMelon (15 November 2013)

digitalangel said:



			Between him kicking the dog, me and getting through all my fencing, i cant turn him out and hes dangerous in th state he is in at the moment. i dont have the time to deal with an unhandled horse.
		
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I had a horse who was stabled permanently when I got him, he didn't understand being turned out very well and would simply gallop about until he was brought it (he also jumped the odd fence). So I kept him stabled and set up a pen with 6ft high steel mesh fencing (the type builders use round construction sites) about the size of a stable then put him in that for increasing amounts of time every day (I'd move it about every few days so he got fresh grass).  Took about 6 months but he now lives out 24/7 very calmly.  Could you try that?


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## DanceswithCows (15 November 2013)

devonlass said:



			then I got to page 16 and the post where you mentioned he is an appaloosa,and have to be honest his behaviour seemed a lot less surprising.

I say that as someone who owns an appy BTW and I love my lad very much,but they can be IME hard work and quirky souls.Incredibly rewarding when it goes well,but never straight forward or easy.
		
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Agree.  Sounds just like mine tbh, I would just give him a lot more time to settle in.


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## Tiffany (15 November 2013)

horserider said:



			Sorry you've had such a shock. You must be pretty shaken up. 

Ok, don't panic yet. Poor horse is very frightened, now you know what a vunerable chap he is at the moment, you can gear your management to help him settle. 
Don't pass judgement on him yet.
		
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^^^this^^^

Everything is new to him, he doesn't know you are his routine yet and you were in your lunch hour so may have been rushing which would also unsettle him.
Hope you are soon feeling better after your shock and injury.


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## JoannaC (18 November 2013)

Hope you're fully recovered from your shock, how is it going now?


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## Amymay (18 November 2013)

How did the weekend go?


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## Jenna1406 (19 November 2013)

^^^^
this


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## Antw23uk (19 November 2013)

Weekend went well, DA was away so a select few of us were on the yard to ensure everything run smoothly. He has settled nicely although Sunday he got a bit anxious about the mare (who he doesnt really know) leaving the yard for a hack but he had his two stable companions either side of him and on and off turn out in the pen next to the stables which he was happy about and he behaved well being led to and from the pen.

I did notice him leaning on the stable walls though so he definatley knows how to use his weight to his advantage!

I'm sure DA will give you a proper update but the weekend went well. He is very aloof though, he doesnt seem to crave attention or really know what it is ... and we now have two on the yard who dont like polo's


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## Annagain (19 November 2013)

Glad things are starting to settle down. Hope they continue to improve.


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