# Equissage Machines...who uses them etc...



## Beanyowner (13 August 2006)

Hey guys...went to  show today where there was an Equine Physiotherapist with a stand showing off her gizmos and gadgets so naturally I went over to discuss them and she what she used them for and what ailments they could so say aid in treating.
We were talking about the Equissage machine which I know a lot of people who event and showjump tend to use them quite a lot after work, but the physio mentioned how some people use them as a warm up technique. At this point my brains begin to whirr and I can't see how this can be an adequate warm up but possibly to help horse who are 'cold backed'.
So...I was wondering how many of you guys use these machines or have used them in the past and at what point do you use them?? Is it before or after a standard training session or after hard work session only, also have any of you used it to help loosen the muscles underneath the saddle area where perhaps an injury may have occurred due to poor saddle fitting or an injury??

She also showed me a hand held unit to target more specific areas (apparently about £400 which I thought was a darn sight cheaper than the full back machine), so has anyone used one of these and did you see any noticable effects from this form of treatment?

Thankies for indulging my curiosity! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Claire x


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## Evadiva1514 (13 August 2006)

We had one on a NH yard i used to work on. We used to put it on horses before exercise if they were slightly coldbacked and then use it on all the horses in the afternoon after they had come in and been groomed. 

  I think it was really beneficial on one of the horses i used to ride. He was an 8 year old gelding who had suffered a lot of back problems mainly caused from being exercised on woodchip gallops over his years of training and was also very cold backed. By using the equisage everyday it seemed to loosen him up and he was fairly relaxed after the first 10 mins or so, whereas without it, he would be extremely tense for the first 20 mins or so.. I think they certainly have there place. Its just whether you are able to justify the cost of having one, but on a large yard i would imagine they are pretty invaluble!!


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## Saf (13 August 2006)

Hi

I use mine most days and in two ways.
I use it before exercise on a higher setting to get circulation going, each session is 20 mins, does not replace my warm up but defo with my mare feels more relaxed and softer through the back when I get on. I alway try to use at an event before the dressage and if have large gap to the jumping would use again.
Will then use again after work on a lower setting and she will dozzzzzzeeeeee off.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I also have the hand unit which after our fall last week we both had the benifit, can be used to target areas, used it on my shoulders and neck. Can also be put in a boot for swellings, knees etc

Saf and I love ours


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## nelgonde (13 August 2006)

Yep we've got one on the yard. In fact we've had 2.

Used to had a brown one now have a blue one  
	
	
		
		
	


	




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Tends to be used for horses who are particularly cold-backed/tight before riding. And occasionally on its own for horse with particular muscular problem.


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## seabiscuit (13 August 2006)

I dont doubt the good effects that you guys have had with the equissage machine,but I asked my physio what she thought about them,and in her opinion they were a complete waste of money and no more use then a hand held massage unit that you can get from Argos.

In my physio's opinion, an H wave machine, which is about £2000, and canbe used all over the back or in a specific place,was far more beneficial and works a LOT further and deeper on the muscles then the equissage. It really unlocks muscle spasm and gets the blood circulation actively flowing.


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## Peanot (13 August 2006)

My mare had one on her when the chiro/massager/physio came to check her over.  She did some work on her pelvis and back and then put the machine on her while she worked over her pelvis again.  She does seem better since the treatment.  About time for another visit soon actually.


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## Beanyowner (14 August 2006)

Thanks guys for your comments...I wonder if anyone has had any specific ailments such as horses having a fall etc which they feel the equissage has helped in treatment. Did the vet/chiro/physio use any other methods of treatment along side the equissage??


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## miamibear (14 August 2006)

Friends horse, had very big problems muscularly, her physio used equissage but it was 4 pads that were put where needed most. 

YO has only just bought one last week and its like a saddle pad thingie blue and comes with an attachment which you can use for specific areas.

My physio said they are good for use before work to relax horses and after strenous work.

To be of any benefit to specific problems they would have to be used every day for a couple of weeks on specific areas. 

If my horse had a specific problem i would get it checked out by the physio and on their instruction i would use the equissage.

Apparently it can calm horses down before travelling if they strass out when travelling.

I think its a good invention, will use it myself at some point, but just had qualified physio to Red and they said there was nothing wrong and my only need for the equissage would be to relax him the day after a hard hack or intensive schooling session, i think i might start using it once a week on his day off


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## Tangaroo (14 August 2006)

I have got one of these and it is brilliant. My new horse has evented in the past and spent the last 2 years just hacking out. I found he didnt work over his back and was very tense in all his work. Apparently he has had saddle issues in the past. Anyway, we splashed out and bought an equissage and he is a different horse. He loves having it on and it really relaxes him. He now works much better, is softer in his whole body and really uses his back. Although i could have got these results with a lot of hard work, the equissage has helped speed the process up by keeping his muscles relaxed and taking the stress away from him. I cant recommend it highly enough, even though it is expensive.


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## baybeejay01 (14 August 2006)

I have my own Equissage machine and work both on my own and in conjunction with a local vet practice and a Mctimoney chiropractor treating other peoples horses as well as my own.  Have been doing it now for 3 years and have seen loads of different cases and actually saved at least 2 horses from being shot when the owners vet has given up on them!! Personally I am not into "gadgets" but love the Equissage and haven't found much that the machine can't help with. As for the comment that it is no more use than one from Argos - what rubbish!! It has a completely different and patented action to those percussive things that are no more use than a meat tenderiser!!


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## racingdemon (14 August 2006)

i used to have one, but sold it last year after it had sat used for months as my current horses like it, also talking to the girl who does my horses backs said a hand held one from argos (i had the equissage hand unit as well as the roller) was better and easier to use, and that the roller, while useful at relaxing tense 'cold backed' horses, was actually less than helpful after a fall or strain as when it vibrates over a damaged area it may encourage it to go into further spasm, so i sold mine and TBH haven't missed it, if they need a massage tbh its easier to do it myself and i know how the muscle is responding.


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## baybeejay01 (14 August 2006)

I disagree with the girl that does your horses back saying that the Argos units are better and easier to use than the Equissage hand unit. I am assuming (correct me if I am wrong), that she hasn't had much, if any, experience with the latter. It does not encourage the muscles to go into further spasms, it shows up a spasm when it releases it. The beauty of this machine over the percussive ones is it also carries on working, due to it's action, for at least 5 hours in some cases (scientifically proven).


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## baybeejay01 (14 August 2006)

Would be happy to answer any questions about specific complaints and uses for this machine (not enough room on here and may bore some people to death!) PM me if you like.


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## sally2008 (14 August 2006)

That's a very interesting point about causing muscle spasm RD.  A horse at a friends yard quite obviously has shoulder problems, which have been pointed out to the owner who for some reason refuses to accept there is any thing wrong.  She uses an roller-type massage machine on him.  The horse has fallen over four times in the last week and the attending vet has put this down to muscle spasm.  Hmmm.....


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## puddicat (14 August 2006)

Er what does it do? - hang on, I could  look on the internet couldn't I  - doh 

Oh right, so it saves you needing to use your hands to groom.  Yep it probably does some of the things it says, so does giving your horse a good groom except you can apply more pressure using your hands so the range of effect you can get using your hands is probably larger than this thing.  All the stuff about "deep cycloidial massage direct to nerve areas" is just playing wiht big words to sound impressive, its means nothing special.  I think the art of grooming has been lost.  At one time (and I guess still for professionals) people learned how to groom horses effectively which included recognising areas of muscle tighness and working on them.  I get the impression that these days gromming is about brushing dirt of your horses and you just pay someone to come in from time to time and charge you £50 for giving your your horse a good groom and telling you how much more relaxed it is.  Of course it is, I'd be more relaxed if someone gave me a good rubbing down.

As for helping with warm up - nope not really. Warm up is about significantly increasing blood flow systemically.  You don't do that by locally massaging a muscle group (although it won;t do any harm), you do it by exercise which invokes a physiological response increasing heart rate, respiration etc.  Hmmm I notice it says "ideal for warming up" in the advert - in my view that could be dangerously misleading.


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## BBs (14 August 2006)

I have trainers one atm - use it on all the horses 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 before and after work.

I have a handheld unit which is usually for sale at the big horsey events which i got at Blenheim - i find this just as good and gets to work in specific areas 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I love it but its a luxury for me atm but no doubt it will be going back with the hrose it came with


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## vicijp (14 August 2006)

I have an Equissage which I have found invaluable on a range of horses, a few examples.
4yo flat horse, big type, been racing since a back end 2 yo - Has an old wither problem which caused major problems last season, with regular physio managed to overcome and won a race as a backend 3yo. This season has worn Equissage before work every day, plus physio. No longer pulls out pottery and hasnt been out of the frame in 7 runs, winning 2.
3yo flat horse - Kept tearing small muscles along his back, having a very high head carriage as a result. Within 3 weeks of wearing Equissage before work his head carriage dropped, within 2 months had overcome his problems, and won after another month.
5yo 17.2hh Pointer - came from Ireland with old injury behind, loads of muscle wastage LH rump and small wither problem. After a week of Equissage was comfortable to saddle (was flinching before), and after 6 weeks of hand unit  wastage had built right back up.
I could give examples all day long, they are a godsend. However I have an excellent physio and they would be worthless unless used in conjunction with someone similar.


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## Beanyowner (14 August 2006)

[ QUOTE ]
Er what does it do? - hang on, I could  look on the internet couldn't I  - doh 



[/ QUOTE ]

Alright smarty pants!  
	
	
		
		
	


	








 I know what it does and I know why they suggest the use of it...have already looked on internet sites! Wanted to know peoples own thoughts on them and what they personally use the machines for thats all. Wondered if people have had any miraculous results from using it as the physio woman seemed to praise it for rejuvinating muscles which had suffered wastage, she also mentioned the use of it when horses are on box rest, to keep the muscles 'built up' so a greater level of work can, so say, be asked of the animal when it does come back into work...don't agree with that statement personally but wanted to ask the question on here to see what others thought.


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## puddicat (14 August 2006)

No not you, ME, i didn't know what it was so I looked it up on the internet.  I was being a bit unfair because I'm sure massagers are useful in a variety of situations.
Do you believe massaging a muscle will cause it to hypertrophy though ?


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## baybeejay01 (14 August 2006)

If you had to look it up on the interent because you didn't know what it was, why do you suddenly think you are qualified to rip the ad wording to bits? "..lots of big words to confuse you" I think you said (or similar), as I said, I have been using the machine for 3 years on lots of different horses in conjunction with a vet and chiropractor - there must be something in it then hey? If you only use it for warm up or only on your own horses how are you supposed to find out all the things the machine can do??!!


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## Beanyowner (14 August 2006)

Ohhhhhh...read that totally wrong then!!!  
	
	
		
		
	


	









I think massaging the muscle will increase blood flow which will aid in some sort of muscle repair/rebuild, although it is only the very surface of the muscle which is being stimulated so I am not sure what kind of result you would get...am gathering that the Equissage machines are not going to penetrate very deep into the tissue so I would have thought a decent bit of lungeing/long reining then gradual build up of fitness the old fashion way would be more beneficial in the long term.

I wonder if too many people are after the 'quick fix' and grasping at straws slightly...I do think the equissage is good for what the majority of people seem to be using it for i.e. relaxing the muscles after work etc...am not convinced that this machine can be used to cause hypertrophy after injury or due to lack of work in order to 'rush' an animal back to fitness and competing again sooner which is what the physio woman seemed to suggest.


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## baybeejay01 (14 August 2006)

You say "am guessing that Equissage doesn't penetrate deep into the tissue.." it does, if you put the roller on and turn it to number 6 (maintenance level), and then put your ear to the horses nose - you can hear the machine working deep in the horse. Also if you touch the surrounding areas you will be surprised at how far away from the area you are working on you can feel it working.


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## puddicat (14 August 2006)

Well because I know a bit about how nerves and muscles work and where they are in the body.  I can't think how else you would be able to evaluate the claims made by the advert.  I just noticed bits of the advert that had big words but meant nothing special.  I used a 'deep penetrating cyclic action that stimulated the nerver' with my hay whisp but it never occured to me to try to patent it.  Funnily enough if I'd used a liner alternating action it would probably had exactly the same effect.

If you think about human exercise, a massage is always nice but basically you avoid muscle stiffness by having a well planned exercise regime including sufficient warm down.  Same for horses, the first thing I'd think if someone tells me their horse only works well after regular massage is (1) are you feeding it properly esp. salt (2) are you warming up and down sufficiently. (3) does the saddle fit properly.  Its just a different outlook I guess.


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## puddicat (14 August 2006)

_ and then put your ear to the horses nose - you can hear the machine working deep in the horse. _

that doesn't tell you its *working* it tells you that you've send a pressure wave through the body as far as the lungs, that not hard you can do it by patting the horse, then the lungs being a nice big resonant cavity send it up the airway to the nose.  You've got no indication of how deep the pressure waves go while still having enough enegy to do anything useful.

_ Also if you touch the surrounding areas you will be surprised at how far away from the area you are working on you can feel it working. _

hmm but just because you can feel something doesn't mean to say its *working* it just means some vibration energy has travelled that far.


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## Peanot (14 August 2006)

Why are some people so negative about it if they haven`t used it???
I have had the chiro/massager/physio work on my horse and put the Equissage on afterwards.   She has lasted longer between treatments this time and I think that it may be because of a combination of manipulation, hand massage and the equissage.
I was pleased with the results but I don`t expect miracle cures, just things that help.


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## baybeejay01 (14 August 2006)

If the "vibration energy has travelled that far" - doesn't that give a clue that it is working? As for the "pressure wave" sent thru' the body as far as the lungs - what pressure wave? Do you mean the gentle. deep, penetrating cycloidal action of the machine? I should do some proper research on the machine and it's action before you do any more guessing or just read the comments of people who have had success with it and therefore know what they are talking about.


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## puddicat (14 August 2006)

_ Why are some people so negative about it if they haven`t used it??? _

Its a combination of putting an alternative viewpoint and unhealthy cyncicism.


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## puddicat (14 August 2006)

_ If the "vibration energy has travelled that far" - doesn't that give a clue that it is working? _

Er.  no - its true that if couldn't feel it, it wouldn't be working but its not true that if you can feel it, it is.

_ As for the "pressure wave" sent thru' the body as far as the lungs - what pressure wave? Do you mean the gentle. deep, penetrating cycloidal action of the machine? _ 

sound is a pressure wave, if there was no pressure wave you would hear nothing.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm sure it does although I'd like to know why the cheaper argos option wouldn't work just as well.  All these devices propagate pressure waves through tissue that cause movement of the tissue that stimulate fluid movement, end of story.  Its a bit like tooth brushes, you can keep saying you've improved the bristles and scientifically designed the handle but its still a tooth brush.  with these devices there's an issue to do with the amplitude (amount of) and frequency of vibration but that's about it.  In fact, if there are any physio's reading this I'd be interested to know whether they have machines that allow you to alter the frequency of the massaging head, and if so, how people use this?


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## Suzy (14 August 2006)

Calm down Ladylynney!! I'm not sure who Puddicat is, or what he/she does, but from reading many of their posts with great interest it is apparent that they know their stuff and I would be very surprised if they weren't a horse vet (and a pretty experienced one at that).

As Puddicat says, he/she is cynical and when you read what they have to say about the Equissage a lot of it makes a great deal of sense.  

However, that is not to say that there is no place for Equissage machines - (we have one at my yard) - and a lot of people feel that they benefit their horses- we can't all be wrong.  I certainly feel better after a massage and so imagine my horse does too.  For me, the Equissage is all about convenience - maybe a handheld job from Argos would do the job just as well, but my arm would fall off from the vibration and it would take hours as they are so small.  

I have a full time job and the time I have to ride is limited, therefore if I can put an Equissage machine on my horse before I ride whilst I do other stuff - great.  Grooming, a hand held massage machine or massage by hand might well do the job just as well from my horse's point of view,  but are much more time consuming and less convenient, so the chances are that I for one, wouldn't do them!  That's where the Equissage wins hands down for me!  Obviously if I had more time and less money [not saying I have lots of money   ] I might well take a different view.

It really is horses for courses.  An Equissage is not going to magically mend a medical problem, but if it relaxes muscles, your horse etc then it may well do some good and if we want to spend a small fortune trying to make our horses lives a bit more comfortable (in my case by way of an apology for carting my lardy body about!) then why the hell not?!


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## puddicat (14 August 2006)

Yep I agree there's a time and a place for them.  I don't really have anything against them, at least massagers have a genuine effect and the way they work is quite straightforward.  I was really only playing devil's advocate with respect to hand grooming.  I knew a bloke who spent at least an hour grooming and strapping his young horse every night - he was single!


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## JLav (14 August 2006)

I have used an equissage machine on a horse with a back problem and it didn't make any difference whatsoever. Have also had alot a clients who have used them who claim that their horses are better for it though as a trainer I can't see it's made any difference in their horses at all!!
It may well work for some but I personally wouldn't pay the money for one.
I also have heard 2 very reknowned equine physios advise that the cheaper hand held units like the Argos one mentioned do as  good a job but couldn't say if that really is the case or not!


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## Theresa_F (14 August 2006)

We had a demo with one on Cairo.

The old boy is now getting a bit stiff behind and bunny hops in canter until he gets going, which can take 30 mins of warm up some days.

We did a loose school session after the equissage had been used and he was much looser out of the box and on his first canter more forward going and hardly hopped.

He also seemed to really enjoy it - stood there with his lip curled making his goofy - I love this face.

What struck us was that my OH and I are very busy people and some days have limited time due to work going t*ts up during the week, and/or one of us having to do two horses due to the other being stuck at work.

We said we could put it on Cairo for 20 mins whilst doing jobs and then give him a shorter exercise session on those days and still keep him ticking over as his warm up time would be reduced.

If the old boys continues to stiffen up over winter, we will seriously be considering one - there goes our christmas pressies to each other and our skiing - but if it makes him feel good it is worth it.


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## Beanyowner (14 August 2006)

[ QUOTE ]
 I should do some proper research on the machine and it's action before you do any more guessing or just read the comments of people who have had success with it and therefore know what they are talking about. 


[/ QUOTE ] 

Its mainly just facts we know about the equine body that we are flying about to try and gather a better idea of what results or not as the case may be, have been seen when using the equissage. 
You don't have to know the "in's and out's" of the machine in order to work out what the vibration is doing to the tissue over which the machine is placed, at the end of the day it is a type of vibration aimed to increase blood flow into the tissue...what I don't understand is how the physio can claim it can aid in rebuilding muscle tissue and even aid in the task of 'warming' the horse up before work as a single strap over the saddle area will in no way adequately warm up the major muscle groups over the hindquarters and am definetly sure it will do NOTHING to tendons and ligaments within the lower limbs.

I wanted to put this subject to you guys to determine what you, as individuals use this machine for...I can read on the website what they 'think' it does! Also wanted to hear if there is a noticable difference between horses who reguarly use this machine and ones who don't.

Am pleased its caused discussion as this was the aim!!


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## baybeejay01 (15 August 2006)

*breathing deeply - ...&amp; out* Ok , am calm now! Sorry, sorry, sorry! Got a bit hot under the collar as it is very hard to explain yourself and got a bit cross at people not being open minded and not prepared to listen to another (informed) view.
I have treated close to a hundred different horses with very different symptoms with the machine in the last 3 years and there has only been 1 that didn't show any improvement at all and assumed that that wasn't a muscular problem. One 30ish year old pony was having real problems even moving and was due to go up to hospital in Bristol for a scan as the vets were at a loss as to what was wrong and, as the owners had nothing to lose, I was asked to do a course of treatments to see if anything showed up. It did, the pony was extremely sore all down her off side &amp; especially in the stifle region. The chiro was called in to see what she could find and adjusted her stifle and other bits. This was 12 months ago and "Molly" now bounces around the field like a spring chicken, she still has a treatment every 2 weeks to keep the muscles in shape and does have good days and better days but she looks fabulous for 30ish. You would be surprised at how good horses are at gritting their teeth and working through a problem without giving you a clue that there is anything wrong at all until they can no longer compensate and everything hurts! The equissage very definitely has a place in keeping our best friends free of pain and helping them to cope with our demands on them. 
Personally, I think every horse should have access to an Equissage periodically, even if it is someone else's who knows what they are doing with it and how to "read" a horse when it reacts in different areas.
Finally, if you've got this far, apologies to  *Puddicat* , I did get a bit defensive but I truly believe that, for whatever reason, it works!


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## puddicat (15 August 2006)

no need to apologise, I was enjoying the discussion


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