# Pelham, rounding or double reins?  Or different bit?



## Sarah1 (22 February 2010)

Hi all

Posted a bit further down about my usually very confident horse becoming quite nervous out hacking alone (due to not doing it for a few months).
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5373382/an/0/page/0#5373382
Anyway I was wondering about whether to change his bit while we work thro these confidence issues out hacking alone?
Was thinking that as I worry he'll tank off perhaps a stronger bit would help give me more confidence that I can stop him if he does take off but as he is always ridden in a KK loose ring snaffle I'm not sure which bit to try?
I thought a pelham might be good but then do I use roundings so I don't have hands full of reins or double reins so I can be more sympathetic with the curb?
I only want something that will help if I do come to grief and isn't in effect all the time &amp; don't want to go mad cos he is a snaffle mouth I just need a bit of extra brakes til I get my head sorted out!

Thanks


----------



## Kat (22 February 2010)

A pelham with roundings is a pretty strong bit. If you go this route use two reins. You can always knot the curb rein and leave it loose when all is well. Riding with two reins will be great practice for the show ring too. 

If you are really worried about two reins why not use a stronger bit that doesn't need two reins? I didn't read your original post but what about a wilkie or a cherry roller or something snaffle derived? Even one of the mylers with hooks?


----------



## Lucy_Nottingham (22 February 2010)

what about something like a kimblewick? or maybe a hanging cheek snaffle? 
if you wanted a stronger bit but not 2 reins what about a continental gag? (milder than a dutch gag, and I find easier to figure out "strength" of your pulls off) 

or you could just try, and wear a body protector?


----------



## finefeathers1 (22 February 2010)

Sounds a bit like my coblet.  He is normally well behaved and bombproof, but take him somewhere new, where he hasnt been for a while etc, and he bombs off.  Or spins around and bombs off.  I use a mullen mouth pelham with d rings as I cant be fussed with two reins.  He does have respect for the pelham and it doesnt take much to stop hin.

He is normally a snaffle mouth - I have even take him xc in one.  For hunting and fast  hacks he has a pelham, as he has such a thick neck he can pull like a train.  However, one he is settled, he will happily hack out on his own in just a KK loose ring snaffle.

Good luck.


----------



## KatB (22 February 2010)

Continental gags and dutch gags are the same, surely?!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





OP, sometimes over bitting them can make them more backwards, so less confident. Lots of work in the school to keep him infront of the leg will help with spookiness etc, and keeping him in a consistent contact to keep his attention on you


----------



## Sarah1 (22 February 2010)

TheoryX - sounds exactly the same as your boy!  He's a big lad too (16.2hh ID x WB) with a really short thick neck and can be very strong if something spooks him (which is very, very rare to be honest!).  I just want to know I can stop him, preferably with a small pull on a stronger bit than pulling his teeth out with the KK!
However will give it a bit more thought and bear in mind what everyone else has said tho I think maybe a rubber pelham might be a good way to go...just for now until I get topside of him again &amp; then I'll swap him back to the KK.


----------



## Sarah1 (22 February 2010)

He's full of it to be honest!  He's a very forward going horse but without being daft &amp; spooky, usually.  
I not sure it's necessarily a schooling issue as he's super brave with another horse nearby so don't think he's dropping behind my leg and I had already sent him forwards in a nice working trot for about 1/2 mile down the lane, he wasn't stuffy and went off my leg as soon as I asked.
The stronger bit is really to give me confidence that I can stop him even if he does spook &amp; take flight - we had a fall on the road about a year ago when he tanked off with me &amp; I couldn't stop him, we hit the road &amp; fell and luckily both escaped with cuts &amp; bruises but I did end up in A&amp;E and obv accident could have been so much worse if there was traffic coming, not to mention fact that RI had a horse fall on the same stretch of road &amp; it broke it's shoulder &amp; had to be PTS.
I want to keep him safe as much as myself!
I know I'm being a bit irrational as he's usually a really good lad but the memories come back whenever I feel him taking control - I wouldn't say I was a nervous rider but the roads on the estate where I keep him are like glass even on a good day, we have 2 road pins in each back shoe cos they're so slippery! And my worst fear is being bolted with, even tho I lived to tell the tale last time!


----------



## Kat (22 February 2010)

Just to clarify a pelham with roundings is strong because you can't regulate when and by how much you use the curb like you can with two reins. A rubber pelham with roundings will still be strong because of the curb action. You may also find that he simply drops behind the bit and clears off anyway. 

I'd look at a single rein bit that is a bit stronger than your current snaffle. 

A Kimblewick is strong and designed to be ridden with one rein, it also has a curb, if I wanted a curb action and only one rein this would probably be my choice. Or some of the mylers can be used with one rein and a curb. 

I wouldn't go for a continental or dutch gag as they are better used with a curb and two reins too. 

I would really look at some of the snaffle options though. A hanging cheek cherry roller might be just the job.


----------



## Lucy_Nottingham (22 February 2010)

well the continental gags iv used have been 3 rings, 2 smaller either side of the larger snaffle ring.

dutch gags are longer and so (i feel) more severe.

As I say, for some reason I work better iwth continentals than a dutch, but that might just be my mental status on it rather than "fact" per say!


----------



## Kat (22 February 2010)

A continental and a dutch are the same thing, but a dutch often has one more ring. 

If the reins are on the bottom ring then it will be stronger as there is more leverage, but the basic action is the same. 

They should be used with two reins and a curb, and when used with just one rein as they almost always seem to be not many horses go that well in them, and lots put their heads up and run through them. 

I'd rather try a hanging cheek snaffle than a continental/dutch gag if I wanted a bit of leverage. 

I think it is well worthwhile getting some lessons riding with two reins. It is one of those things that is a fiddly faff at first but gets easier very quickly with practice. To be honest I dodn't do it enough to not find it a fiddly faff but hubby rides on two reins a lot and it is now easy peasy.


----------



## Sarah1 (22 February 2010)

So then, how severe would a rubber mullen mouth kimblewick be in comparison to say a snaffle (obv stronger) and a rubber mullen mouth pelham with double reins?
Sorry to be numptyish but am not a bit expert I usually like everything in a snaffle!!!!!


----------



## Luci07 (22 February 2010)

I hack out in a dutch gag with the reins on the top ring - so theoretically no stronger than a normal snaffle, but if my boy looks to be overly fresh or silly, I will drop it down to the 2nd ring for more control. Its fine for hacking but for my horse, useless for jumping ( lose my steering completely) and of course I dont school in it.  I do like being able to have the control over the severity pretty much from hack to hack.


----------



## Kat (22 February 2010)

The thing to think about is that with any bit you need to think about the mouthpiece and the cheeks when you are evaluating it. 

Rubber will be milder on the bars and lips than metal in the same mouthpiece. BUT rubber mouthpieces are quite thick and if your horse has a fleshy mouth and tonugue might find a thin metal mouthpiece more comfortable..... just to confuse matters 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Then you have to think about the cheeks. A pelham and a kimblewisk are both curb bits. With a curb you have to think about the length of the shank to decide how strong the curb action will be. 

A pelham with two reins would be mildest as you would ride mainly off the snaffle rein and only use the curb when needed. With roundings the curb comes into play virtually all the time. 

A kimblewick, has very short sides so not much leverage and a milder curb action than a pelham but as you only use it with one rein the curb can't be used as an option. 

Kimblewicks normally have slots that you can put the reins through to change the severity of the bit. 

If you definitely want to ride with one rein I'd go for a kimblewick over a pelham. They are generally pretty good bits for strong ponies, see if you can borrow one to try. It is impossible to tell without seeing your cob's way of going what would work best.


----------



## Sarah1 (23 February 2010)

Thanks for that - certainly given me a lot to think about!
Asked my RI last night &amp; he suggested trying a bubble bit but after reading up about the action of the gag I'm not sure it's the best way to go as unless you use a curb &amp; 2 reins it actually raises the head?  This is part of the problem with my boy - he'll throw his head up &amp; use his huge neck to just basically ignore me if he's feeling that way out &amp; then I have zero control!
I have seen a Sprenger KK Ultra B ring snaffle which looks like it might do the job for me without moving too far away from the snaffle I ride in now - do you have any experience of these bits?


----------



## NOISYGIRL (24 February 2010)

Defo double reins, my horse is 31 but sometimes thinks he's 3, I have the bottom rein loose and feed it through when I need it


----------

