# Bonding with horse quandary



## BellaL (17 April 2021)

Hi all, 
This is my first post so please be kind!
My daughter had loaned a horse for over a year. She loved this loan horse but unfortunately she was never going to develop further on her as she was a notoriously moody mare who could become very frustrating . My daughter loved her for her quirks but did become frustrated over time.
So we now have a different horse on loan from a friend with view to buy but need to make a decision ASAP. Perhaps stupidly we didn’t look at many as this excellent opportunity come our way about a horse which seemed to fit the requirements perfectly. Described as extremely safe, responsive and good at all things this seemed like the ideal choice. Height etc also ideal.
Daughter has been riding her well in the livery yard arena etc and also done some small hacks. On one initial hack the horse appeared to rear but daughter now realises this may have been her own error rather than the horse. New mare is a very different ride to what she is used to and much more forward and she therefore suspects she pulled her back . Owner has never known horse rear before and owner is someone we know well. We know the history of the mare well and know what she has previously done etc .
However these rears have made my daughter nervous about hacking out on her again. She has gone out again though several times and faced these fears- she’s ‘ok’ but still nervous which I can see is then being felt by the horse.
She also doesn’t appear to be as ‘interested’ in the horse as i would have expected her to be. I don’t know if I’m expecting too much but she isn’t that keen to do much with her . We are only 1 month in and I would have expected much more enthusiasm. We do go up to the yard daily as we always do and she wants to go but she just isn’t that focussed on what she intends to do when she gets there. She gets heavily influenced by what her friends are intending to do and tend to go with that rather than having her own direction. she did become a bit like this with the other loan horse but we put that down to the loan horse being so awkward!! Although my daughter loved her for this!!
Time has now come to make a decision on this new horse but I just don’t know what to do. Daughter is adamant she doesn’t want to look at others and she’s happy. But I just don’t ‘see’ happiness or ‘feel’ it from her!! Horse appears very settled and daughter rides her very well in the school. However daughters lack of overt enthusiasm or delight when riding or going to see the horse, does worry me. One of the frustrations with the previous loan horse was the fact she was a real kick a long and needed constant encouragement to move! This new horse just needs a gentle voice command and she’s off!! It’s a real difference and I thought my daughter would be super excited about this!!

I can also see that my daughter is not being as assertive with the new horse as she needs to be. New mare was extremely well behaved in previous private yard around previous owner. Golden in fact on the numerous viewings we made . However little things like her not standing still when mounting are apparent now ( I appreciate this is a tiny issue). Is this horse really too strong and forward for my daughter ? Or is this just what my daughter needs to learn about? 
i would add that she is in the heart of teenage years so this could actually be the issue!!

Any thoughts gratefully received!!


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## southerncomfort (17 April 2021)

My first thought is that before making a decision you need to show your daughter what the alternative is. So go and view some other horses of the same type so she can compare and it might make her realise how unsafe she feels on the current one.

She may be loathe to let this one go because she fears a period of being horseless, but far better to take your time searching for the right one than risk her losing all confidence.

For what it's worth I wouldn't expect their to be any great bond between them at this stage, and it's admirable that your daughter wants to persevere, but if your gut feeling is that this one just isn't safe then I'd send it back.

Confidence is so precious and so easily destroyed.


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## Clodagh (17 April 2021)

Agree with SC.
Bonding with horses is something that may come eventually, but is irrelevant right now. As long as she’s safe and enjoying it ‘love’ is nothing to do with it


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## Meowy Catkin (17 April 2021)

On one hand I wonder if this mare is too forwards for your daughter. The rearing incident has frightened her so the forwardsness/great contrast between her last horse isn't letting her recover from that. It's horrible being over horsed, so this does need to be talked about.

On the other hand I wonder if the peer pressure stuff (doing what her friends want rather than having her own direction) would happen with any horse, not just this one.


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## Equi (17 April 2021)

Does your daughter have an instructor? What would they say about it? At the end of the day it will be you paying for this and it will be your decision if you buy the horse. If you’re not happy to drop your daughter off and let her get on with it then don’t buy it.


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## BellaL (17 April 2021)

Daughter is adamant she doesn’t want any lessons yet and wants to work through things initially. She does ride very well in her in the school with good walk/trot/canter. Nothing remotely unsafe apparent in school. However I feel she could do with a lesson from a reined eye to observe and watch riding and give initial advice. 
however I really don’t understand why she won’t have a lesson on her? 
daughter is driving me mad!!


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## BellaL (17 April 2021)

Meowy Catkin said:



			On one hand I wonder if this mare is too forwards for your daughter. The rearing incident has frightened her so the forwardsness/great contrast between her last horse isn't letting her recover from that. It's horrible being over horsed, so this does need to be talked about.

On the other hand I wonder if the peer pressure stuff (doing what her friends want rather than having her own direction) would happen with any horse, not just this one.
		
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yes I think you’re right, peer pressure would be there with any horse .


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## spacefaer (17 April 2021)

Two thoughts occurred when reading your post 
1. She's a teenager - could she be drifting away from horses but is reluctant to say it to you /admit it to herself?  
2. Some people don't do so well riding for the sake of it - would it help to give her an aim?  To have achieved x,  y or z by a certain milestone?  Just to help her focus. 

I would agree she ought to sit on some others - to compare and help her decide if she really wants this horse,  a different horse or even no horse for the time being


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## Meowy Catkin (17 April 2021)

BellaL said:



			Daughter is adamant she doesn’t want any lessons yet and wants to work through things initially. She does ride very well in her in the school with good walk/trot/canter. Nothing remotely unsafe apparent in school. However I feel she could do with a lesson from a reined eye to observe and watch riding and give initial advice. 
however I really don’t understand why she won’t have a lesson on her? 
daughter is driving me mad!!
		
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Tell her she is being an idiot.  Lessons are precisely what she needs, what anyone needs when they have a new horse even when it is going well and especially when there's been a rearing incident and they are too scared to hack.


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## BellaL (17 April 2021)

Meowy Catkin said:



			Tell her she is being an idiot.  Lessons are precisely what she needs, what anyone needs when they have a new horse even when it is going well and especially when there's been a rearing incident and they are too scared to hack.
		
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I will do 🤪


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## Meowy Catkin (17 April 2021)

Maybe be a bit more tactful depending on how she will react?


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## BellaL (17 April 2021)

Meowy Catkin said:



			Maybe be a bit more tactful depending on how she will react? 

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no I actually think she needs the blunt approach- she IS being an idiot!!

problem with her is that she she lacks inner confidence and doesn’t like the spotlight being on her!!

lesson is now booked despite her ‘anger’ at me doing so! She has since laughed and hid under the bed covers ( yes she’s still in bed) and admitted that she thinks it’s a good idea 🤣


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## Cortez (17 April 2021)

It sounds to me like your daughter is afraid of the new horse. Fear is not a good enticement to ride. I agree that lessons are a must (even pro riders have lessons), it is not possible to learn without instruction; a bit like flying a plane, or any other complicated, dangerous thing. I would strongly encourage your daughter to ride as many different horses as possible, she will learn far more by doing this than by riding only one, and she may find a much more compatible partner by doing so, or at least discover the type of horse that she feels most comfortable on. Good luck, I'd far rather have 100 rearing horses than a teenager


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## BellaL (17 April 2021)

Yes could be.....the new mare is definitely a ‘different’ kind of ride. 

However she is not afraid at all if in the arena . She’s fine and appears to show no fear. Has walked , trotted and cantered with sound transitions.  However when other riders are around she goes all bashful and doesn’t do much. Also ‘will’ go on hacks but slight encouragement but not real ‘excitement’. There is some definite fear there on hacks. is that enough to say no to this one?

I think I expected her to be super excited about her own horse but she hasn’t been- is that weird? I do wonder , if , as others have mentioned, she would be like this with whatever horse.....

She was very attached to her quirky previous loan horse! That one bucked and all sorts and it didn’t faze her. She was known as the difficult mare on the yard!!

my daughter does resist any kind of ‘change’ in life so could be partly this.

Or she could just be ‘teenage ‘.

am I expecting too much too soon?

but then how do you know whether to fully commit ?? 🤦‍♀️


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## Pearlsasinger (17 April 2021)

BellaL said:



			Daughter is adamant she doesn’t want any lessons yet and wants to work through things initially. She does ride very well in her in the school with good walk/trot/canter. Nothing remotely unsafe apparent in school. However I feel she could do with a lesson from a reined eye to observe and watch riding and give initial advice.
however I really don’t understand why she won’t have a lesson on her?
daughter is driving me mad!!
		
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I haven't read the whole thread but the best way for daughter to work through the issues is to have lessons with a trusted RI.  I wonder if her reluctance is because she fears the RI will say that the horse is unsuitable.  Your role as a caring parent is to ensure daughter's safety, so you need to give her an ultimatum, either she has lessons before you make the decision about keeping the horse or no, or the horse goes back.  IMHO lessons should have been arranged before you took possession of the horse, no teenager has enough experience to deal with a new horse without help, no matter how good they think they are.


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## Ambers Echo (17 April 2021)

I wondered whether my daughter was losing interest when we moved from a pony she rode well and had some success on but who occasionally reared and napped. We took far too long to make the decision to sell (or - as it turned out - retire as we discovered a physical cause) as she wanted to perservere with him. And she seemed to be doing ok. She went from dragging her feet to absolutely adoring riding the new pony who went on to be her pony of a lifetime. The difference having the right pony makes to enthusuasm and willingness is huge in my experience. And fear - even if low level lack of trust in your pony - is a horrid way to feel. Feeling safe in an arena is all well and good but when you have a pony you can canter on grass verges, gallop across fields, take to the beach etc and just know that they will look after you  gives you a different level of fun and confidence. 

I'd be selling that one not buying it, personally. As for making the leap - I also think that when you know you know. You should have a child who does not want to get off at the viewing. Not one that says, 'yes this is fine but can I get off now.'


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## Gloi (17 April 2021)

It sounds to me that she is more nervous that she wants to admit for fear of losing face. Do get her to have lessons on the horse if you can but don't let yourself be pushed into buying the horse yet.


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## BellaL (17 April 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I haven't read the whole thread but the best way for daughter to work through the issues is to have lessons with a trusted RI.  I wonder if her reluctance is because she fears the RI will say that the horse is unsuitable.  Your role as a caring parent is to ensure daughter's safety, so you need to give her an ultimatum, either she has lessons before you make the decision about keeping the horse or no, or the horse goes back.  IMHO lessons should have been arranged before you took possession of the horse, no teenager has enough experience to deal with a new horse without help, no matter how good they think they are.
		
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She had 6 lessons at the previous owners yard prior to horse moving to us.  All went well with gradual improvement over time and she was fine no problems. Didn’t hack there though admittedly .


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## Wishfilly (17 April 2021)

"On one initial hack the horse appeared to rear but daughter now realises this may have been her own error rather than the horse. "

Can I just query this sentence? Either the horse reared or didn't? Regardless whether it was due to your daughter's error or naughtiness, if the horse went up on its hind legs, that's a rear, surely? 

And that's scary for most riders, especially a teen who isn't used to it. And if she feels she caused it, she may be wary of doing so again. 

I think the reluctance to ride in front of others/with an instructor is because of the fear they will say it's the wrong horse/too much too. But it could just be general low level nerves, too. 

I agree with the plan others have suggested- get her a few more lessons and take her to try some other horses?


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## BellaL (17 April 2021)

Others have seen her ride the new mare in passing and have felt she’s riding him well- including her instructor and the yard owners who know her well.
On reflection , she is naturally shy in personality anyway so she kind of doesn’t like doing things in front of others whatever the activity is in life.

it was a rear ...... she was taking her up a slight incline . To be honest it was definitely too much too soon to hack so early on and we know that for sure. We would love to turn back time and not to have hacked too quickly but she did and we can’t change that now. She thinks now she pulled her back when going up hill instead of just letting her go forward.

We now have lessons booked.

However she is certain she doesn’t want to view any other horses at all. I guess I will have to make her .......


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## Wishfilly (17 April 2021)

BellaL said:



			Others have seen her ride the new mare in passing and have felt she’s riding him well- including her instructor and the yard owners who know her well.
On reflection , she is naturally shy in personality anyway so she kind of doesn’t like doing things in front of others whatever the activity is in life.

it was a rear ...... she was taking her up a slight incline . To be honest it was definitely too much too soon to hack so early on and we know that for sure. We would love to turn back time and not to have hacked too quickly but she did and we can’t change that now. She thinks now she pulled her back when going up hill instead of just letting her go forward.

We now have lessons booked.

However she is certain she doesn’t want to view any other horses at all. I guess I will have to make her .......
		
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That's totally fair about not enjoying riding in front of others. I'm a bit the same to be honest, sometimes!

Has she been made to feel guilty about the rear e.g. by the owners? I'm not saying the horse is awful to have reared in that scenario BUT it has shown you that when things go wrong/there is too much excitement, the rear is there. If her old loan horse, regardless of being quirky, didn't rear, it may have shaken her up a little OR she may be feeling like she has "messed up" the horse because of this incident. 

If she really really doesn't want to view others, I think it's hard to make her. 

I know it's very difficult with teenagers, but can you discuss what you've noticed (e.g. reluctance to hack) and say that you don't mind what she wants to do either way, but you're just wondering if she's really happy, and how she's feeling. Driving can sometimes be a good time for these sorts of conversations with teens as without the eye contact there can be a bit less pressure? 

From what you've written, I feel like there is anxiety coming from somewhere, but it's hard for me to work out where! It might be the horse, but it might be pressure from another angle, which would happen with any new horse, or even her old one?


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## Quigleyandme (17 April 2021)

A world renown instructor sadly now departed accused me of having indoorschoolitis. I had a fairly innocuous fall during a jumping lesson because the fixed head broke off my side-saddle but it really knocked my confidence and I only felt safe in the indoor school. The fear was far greater than the incident warranted and completely inexplicable to me.


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## Pearlsasinger (17 April 2021)

BellaL said:



			However she is certain she doesn’t want to view any other horses at all. I guess I will have to make her .......
		
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That is indeed the parent's role


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## Muddy unicorn (17 April 2021)

I think a lot of teenagers have a romantic view of riding - they’re going to be the one to take the unrideable horse and a few months later they’re storming round Badminton - it’s the plot of umpteen pony books 😉. They don’t want to admit that they need help...

Lessons are non-negotiable especially if the horse is very different from the previous horse.  However, if she’s not coming across as particularly keen do you think she might be losing interest but doesn’t want to tell you because she can see how hard you’ve worked/how much money you’ve spent to make this happen for her.   How old is your daughter?  Many teens are horse obsessed in the first few years of secondary but as friendships/relationships/exams start to assume greater importance they lose interest.


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## ester (17 April 2021)

^^ I wondered re. the money side whether that was part of her reluctance to plan lessons with said horse?

From everything you've said I think I'd look elsewhere, whatever the 'actual' reason is it doesn't sound like this horse makes her heart sing, and to want to do stuff.

MU my RS owner used to say that once they hit 14 girls would either stop riding or go to work for her. It was very true!


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## maya2008 (17 April 2021)

I would also say to look at others.  When you sit on the right one, you know.  You want to take them home that minute and count the days ‘till they arrive. You want to show them off to the world and are excited to see them every day.  You buy them things and send everyone pictures...

My little mare makes me smile every day and I trust her no matter what. She is speedy and trainable and has bags of talent in her small frame. However, she is altogether too much pony for my son, for whom she was originally intended.

He, perhaps like your daughter, prefers something cheeky where there is the challenge to win the battle, but where the pony is happy to be the ‘adult’ in the situation. His shetland is a complete nightmare at times, but he loves her with his whole heart - he has stuck with her through her running off and decking him repeatedly - and he would choose her over competitive success without a thought. When they jump, or hack, I know she is making the serious decisions - where on the path to put her feet, striding to the jump, what is safe and what is not. Her cheekiness never causes harm, and however naughty she seems, no one ever gets hurt.


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## Wishfilly (17 April 2021)

maya2008 said:



			He, perhaps like your daughter, prefers something cheeky where there is the challenge to win the battle, but where the pony is happy to be the ‘adult’ in the situation. His shetland is a complete nightmare at times, but he loves her with his whole heart - he has stuck with her through her running off and decking him repeatedly - and he would choose her over competitive success without a thought. When they jump, or hack, I know she is making the serious decisions - where on the path to put her feet, striding to the jump, what is safe and what is not. Her cheekiness never causes harm, and however naughty she seems, no one ever gets hurt.
		
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Sorry OP, not relevant to you, but I hugely relate to this. I would rather ride something that can be tricky but has a brain than something that you feel like will crash into a solid fence if you get it wrong. And I definitely couldn't cope with something that wanted me to make the decision about where feet go on a hack!


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## southerncomfort (18 April 2021)

If she's very shy and doesn't like riding in front of others, I wonder if the idea of viewing other horses and riding in front of the owners is putting her off.


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## Winters100 (18 April 2021)

Is there really no way to extend the loan to give you a bit more time to decide?

I am wondering about this as you said that the horse 'appeared to rear'. Do you know if it actually did rear?  A proper rear is difficult to miss and is completely different from the little 'bunny hops' that even my schoolmistress will do if over excited.  If it really was a proper rear then personally I would not buy the horse for a teenager, or actually for anyone other than a very confident and experienced adult who was going into it with their eyes open.

It might also be worth having the discussion around does she really want her own horse. It might be that she is losing interest and just likes the idea, but that if she could have a share or regular riding some other way it might be enough for her.

Whatever you decide I wish you luck, and do remember that it is always a lot less heartache to have no horse than it is to have the wrong horse.


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## ester (19 April 2021)

winters post #20 clarifies that it was a rear.


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## BellaL (19 April 2021)

southerncomfort said:



			If she's very shy and doesn't like riding in front of others, I wonder if the idea of viewing other horses and riding in front of the owners is putting her off.
		
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this was definitely correct! She hates the thought of others looking at her in this way unless they are people she knows well. So ..... we overcame the issue and a horse was viewed yesterday and another today - virtues of a well timed PD day at her school!!

and the result ......... she wants the mare we have !!! She has just had the most amazing time in her in the arena and she is beaming! Not only this but the owner is happy to extend the loan for another month at a small cost until we are absolutely sure . Owner is as keen for her to be a right match as we are. this also means that we can view any others if she wants to but after today I am not sure she will want to!


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## Winters100 (19 April 2021)

ester said:



			winters post #20 clarifies that it was a rear.
		
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Thanks for the clarification Ester.  

IMO, which may of course be wrong because I don't have the whole picture, a horse that rears because she was hanging on a bit too much while going up a slight incline is probably not one who I would want to buy for a teenager who has only been riding a 'kick along' before. 

Teenagers can sometimes be very worried about what others think. Maybe she feels that her friends will think less of her if she doesn't keep trying with this horse.

Maybe I am too cautious, but I would not keep a horse that had reared during the trial period.


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## BellaL (19 April 2021)

She’s not too bothered about her friends and their thoughts really. She’s quite independently minded if that makes sense. 

We have another month to go anyway. I have to admit to her having shown to be extremely calm and well behaved since though. I’m feeling much more positive now though that we will be able to make a measured decision. Viewing other horses has been incredibly helpful and we will try and view some more. In the meantime she has weekly lessons ahead all scheduled within the loan period .


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## BellaL (19 April 2021)

BellaL said:



			She’s not too bothered about her friends and their thoughts really. She’s quite independently minded if that makes sense.

We have another month to go anyway. I have to admit to her having shown to be extremely calm and well behaved since though. I’m feeling much more positive now though that we will be able to make a measured decision. Viewing other horses has been incredibly helpful and we will try and view some more. In the meantime she has weekly lessons ahead all scheduled within the loan period .
		
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 Don’t mean she’s not bothered about her fitness as such. Mean that she’s not heavily influenced by them if that makes sense!!


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## Winters100 (19 April 2021)

Great that you have another month - well done for arranging that.  It should become clear during this time if the horse is a good fit, especially if you have an instructor to help


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## fredflop (28 April 2021)

How old is your daughter? Tbh it sounds like you need to sit down with her and have a proper “adult” conversation with her. Whilst teenagers can be moody etc, I think if you are honest with her, and try and treat her more like an adult than a child, things will be easier all round.

my mother was incapable of doing this... it was either... you will, your not having that or we are doing it my way. Leading on to the your not going on the Scout camp as you will get murdered. (Honestly how stupid!)


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## View (28 April 2021)

BellaL said:



			. To be honest it was definitely too much too soon to hack so early on and we know that for sure. We would love to turn back time and not to have hacked too quickly but she did and we can’t change that now.
		
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Don’t beat yourself up about this.  If she felt comfortable in the school in WTC, it was NOT to soon to hack.  For me, too much emphasis is placed on schooling only in a school.

Real life enjoyable riding, especially for teenagers, is about hacking, beaches, popping logs.  We schooled on hacks because we had no school - but when I spent a summer teaching in a riding school and had my horse there, it was my horse I used to teach those ready how lateral work feels, what the difference between working/medium/extended is, how it feels when a horse is working through.

it’s good that the loan has more time and lessons are arranged - but a teenager should be riding many horses and ponies.  I was a rider for a dealer at weekends and holidays while at school - I learnt so much from all the different horses and ponies.


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