# Bits are cruel!!!!!



## burtie (21 July 2008)

Grrrrr,Ok I know I should probably post on the 'I'm a Parelli nut' forum to get the best response, but I am a bit mad after watching Pat Parelli taking the p**s out of people who don't follow his methods and implying we are all cruel/can't ride etc.
I also get annoyed with the whole Dressage riders just haul mentality as well. I have no doubt that many do, but just wanted to share this picture of my young horse at a new venue, so a bit tense, trotting own the centre line to start his Dressage test.

I'm not implying that we are by any means perfect but does this look like a horse who is being hauled in or does not like his bit?






Lovely photo thanks to Digital Dressage!

For the really observant, yes that is a crank noseband, but it is not tight I just liek the look of it on a larger headed warmblood!


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## dwi (21 July 2008)

He's gorgeous!


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## Spot_the_Risk (21 July 2008)

Bits aren't cruel, it's the rider that causes pain with their hands!


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## burtie (21 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 Bits aren't cruel, it's the rider that causes pain with their hands!  

[/ QUOTE ] 

Totlly agree!

On a side note looking at this photo, do you reckon I should drop the noseband a hole or not, I can't decide?


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## hellybelly6 (21 July 2008)

Nice horse with a nice light contact.

I am happy to accept that bits are unnatural.  It is the way they are used at times without consideration and in anger which is unacceptable.


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## Hippona (21 July 2008)

Don't get me started on Pat 'my skulls thicker than yours and I don't need to wear a hat' Parelli....


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## SilverSkye (21 July 2008)

I think the horse looks severely unhappy and i hope you havent also got a saddle on the horse as horses arent designed to be ridden just poked and prodded with a long stick.
In seriousness looks like a nice horse and looks perfectly content to me, bits are only as cruel as the hands that use them, the same applies to bitless bridles!


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## AmynPeanut (21 July 2008)

After doing some serious reading and research i thought i'd give bitless a go, sounded ideal for a young horse of ours who is a worrier and was being silly with his head. Rode in it for ten minutes (after diong ground work in it first) and the poor chap panicked when  asked to halt. have since found out that some bitless can cause horse to feel cluastraphobic due to "head-wrap" action.
 Now sold bitless and horse very happy and going beautifully in a myler. Obviously my chap doesnt agree that bits are cruel either!


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## Toby_Zaphod (21 July 2008)

Pat Parelli's training methods cost a fortune when you take into account having to buy all the various stages etc so many don't follow it through to the end. There is a saying "A litle bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing". I think that Pat Parelli has created many hundreds of dangerous people.


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## Ezme (21 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 There is a saying "A litle bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing". I think that Pat Parelli has created many hundreds of dangerous people. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

thats my favorite paralli bashing quote yet!


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## Smurphy (21 July 2008)

I get so cross with that type of attitude, on my yard we have a few liveries who practice Natural Horsemanship and look down and me for wearing spurs and carrying whips etc, but I just have to laugh as I have horses with manners while their horses are bargy and piss off when they like!!

Now I just say what exactly is natural about using a 10ft rope and riding bareback leav ethe dam thing  in the field or even betther let them run free to be a horse   GRRR rant over


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## Shilasdair (21 July 2008)

On the Parelli.com website, it says this about bits (extract, but unedited);

'The snaffle bit is intended to be used for teaching, controlling, reinforcing, and refining lateral flexion. It is a bit to be used mainly with a sideways pull for lateral flexion. It is not the type of bit you pull on with both hands at the same time.'

I leave you to make your own mind up.
S


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## Smurphy (21 July 2008)

5 1/2" Confidence Snaffle Bit

Designed to teach horses to have more confidence in Zone 1, to stretch into the bit. It has a smooth, even feel to the mouthpiece and an oval joint in the middle instead of a single joint. It is specifically designed for riding with two reins.

 "It is specifically designed for riding with two reins" 

Thats where I was going wrong!!! no wonder I cant trot down the centre line without veering left!!!!!


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## damsel (21 July 2008)

I agree with the fact that it is the rider who causes pain and discomfort. And there are so many different bits about that there will always be something a horse will be happy with. Love the pic he is gorgeous and love the bridle. I have always ridden with my horses comfort as the priority and i have had to change bit a few times but it has always been to a softer bit and something that mine are happy with. I think that you should decide what is best but he does not look in any discomfort he looks lovely


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## Rayado05 (21 July 2008)

I think there is huge amount of "marketing" with the PP thing to be honest.

He has brought a marketing/money making concept that does work, but really at the end of it, is pieces of things from others and alot of common sense.

For me personally, I have worked with vaqueros/ western trainers (non UK) and some classical trainers over years (US &amp; UK based). I have gleamed info from each, and used what i found of value and works for me. Along with all this I have my own 'feel'.

Bits are cruel in the wrong hands, any bit, not just dressage people. I have seen cruelty and wonderful lightness in just about every situation relating to a horse.

PP makes alot of money from his system and products, and if people find a sense of security and progress stuck on the first few levels, then some good has come from it.
I will say that you either have "feel" or you dont, regardless of discipline, and that is something near on impossible to teach.

I'm not saying he is wrong in what he introduces, anything that brings a little positive light into the horse world is welcome.

It is up to us all to decide what are our beliefs and understanding, our own failings and our own strengths, to understand our horse and our own ability to teach/lead/ handle.

It's one of those topics that gets everyone everytime!

But hey - wish I could launch a brand of rope at those prices


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## itsmyparty (21 July 2008)

Hang on - Parelli sell their own design of bit which looks almost identical to a French link.....


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## Faithkat (21 July 2008)

I saw an advert at the weekend for a second-hand carrot stick - £22  . . .  like . . . HOW MUCH?????


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## Tinypony (21 July 2008)

Burtie - just wondering, what was the purpose of your original post?  Did somebody say you were hauling your horse's head into an "outline"?  Are you asking for comments on the photo?  Or is it yet another excuse for a Parelli-bashing thread?
When the P people talk about riding with one or two reins, all they mean is that they would not take up much of a feel with both reins when using a jointed snaffle, because of the nutcracker action.  I thought that was something that non-P riders were aware of as well?
I can't quite come to terms with the new Parelli range of bits, supposedly tailored to the horse's "horsenalities", now that does smack of marketing to me.  Rather like Dually's, Wip Wops and all the other fancy bits and pieces we can choose to take or leave as we wish.
Parelli isn't anti-bits though, it's a huge misunderstanding to think he is.  He rides in a progression of bits as the horse's education progresses, including western curb bits.


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## burtie (21 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Burtie - just wondering, what was the purpose of your original post?  

[/ QUOTE ] 

In all honesty just a general grumble, I happended to catch a Pat Parelli masterclass on Horse and Country TV the other night, and thought I'd watch as up unitl then I'd only seen Parelli from the followers who pracitse it. I just got really angry when the man himself said that we all previously trained our horses by beating then up and pulling them about, but it wasn't our fault becuase before he came along with a 'better' way we didn't know any better.  Grrrrr

So no my gripe is that it is very possible to train your horse in a light and harmonious way without following Parelli. Grrrr again!


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## Tinypony (21 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
So no my gripe is that it is very possible to train your horse in a light and harmonious way without following Parelli. Grrrr again!  

[/ QUOTE ] 
Couldn't agree with you more!
I get annoyed by anyone who has this attitide that everything was bad and abusive until they came along, Monty R is the same.  And then their disciples make matters worse by carrying on upsetting people.
Shame, because I think there is generally something to be learnt from all trainers.  (Although sometimes I guess you learn about what you WOULDN'T do!).


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## Beanyowner (21 July 2008)

Its not the bits that are cruel...its the idiot riders that can't keep their sodding hands still for five minutes and actually balance their own bodies. Its also the mothers who buy their children 'advanced' ponies because they are determined their child is the next best thing when in real life the child is shi**ing itself when ever on board so the kid pulls, the pony stops, mother thinks pony won't go forward...mother gives child spurs...pony is confused...pony tanks off and damages child........

rant over. sorry all. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 bit of a tangent there.


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## Donkeymad (21 July 2008)

An incorrectly used bitless bridle or, as in P, one of their headcollars, can inflict worse pain and injuries than a correctly used bit of almost any sort.


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## Tinypony (21 July 2008)

Do you think so?  It's a bit hard to quantify really isn't it?  A badly fitted rope halter, used with a lot of force (or if a horse puts a lot of force in it) can cause nerve damage.  A badly used bit can rip a horse's mouth open (I have seen it in a polo pony).  Which is worse? 
I'd just say that a lot of equipment can do harm if used incorrectly.


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## Araminta (21 July 2008)

Hear hear


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## UncleJr (22 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 ... do you reckon I should drop the noseband a hole or not, I can't decide? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't, because the bit and noseband could pinch horse's lip when reins are pulled. The horse will not like that and, will shake his head in disapproval.


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