# Lame horse, no heat , no swelling and no injury .



## xoxellaxox (8 March 2015)

Hi everyone, to cut a very long story short, my horse went lame in January on her right front leg. She went sound one week then lame another. She is extremely lame in the school but not out hacking. Three weeks ago, she wasn't showing any signs of it improving so i got a physio out. He straight away said she has torn the muscle in her shoulder. Although when you press this or move it she shows no sign of pain. He told me a month of box rest and not to pick her feet out so her feet stay on the ground...

 So three weeks into the box rest I decided that i'd quite like my vet to look at her. He came out and was not very happy about the physio saying to not pick her feet out, he spent over a hour checking her whole body and doing all the necessary lameness tests on her . He said it is NOT her shoulder, her shoulder is fine . He then used two nerve blocking injections into her fetlock on her right front leg, he explained this would numb any pain from her fetlock into her foot. I when trotted her up and she was sound! No sigh of lameness at all .  So he knows it is something to do with her foot now.

She is now booked in for an MRI and x-ray scan of this foot next week, my vet also advised me to  have her shoes taken off which I did yesterday . 

She is a big chunky Irish cob and she is clean limbed and only 6. Apart from hacking she has hardly done anything to warren how lame she is . I am so so worried about her and really want her to be better. She has taken to box rest so well and is being such a calm good girl through it all . 

Has anyone got any idea what could be causing this ?


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## Wagtail (8 March 2015)

The four things that come to mind are laminitis, abscess, navicular or pedal bone fracture, with abscess being the most likely. Xray and mri should obviously give you more idea.


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## Aperchristmastree (8 March 2015)

Firstly, next time your horse is lame, please speak to the vet before following a physio's advice about a month's box rest.  You would be getting to the bottom of the problem three weeks ago if you had just rang your vet.  Physios cannot diagnose properly and they really shouldn't be telling you to boxrest a horse when they don't know exactly what is wrong.  Vet then physio, not the other way round.

Otherwise, what wagtail said. You will need to wait for the results of the scans, but it should show up something like wagtail's options.


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## xoxellaxox (8 March 2015)

Believe me I'm kicking myself for not getting the vet first . When your on a livery yard and everyone on the yard is telling you you don't need a vet just a physio to check her back, and me being quite a novice to owning a horse I just went with them. 
But its a learning curve and and in future the vets is my first port of call . Seriously hope I can get her sound as shes a very special girl .


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## Meredith (8 March 2015)

My mare was hopping lame last month. No heat, no swelling and no reaction when tested, then one day she was sound. We could see that an abscess had broken out from the bulb of her heel. No-one found it and it had taken a while to 'brew'. Hoping you have as simple a solution to your horse's lameness.


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## Fun Times (8 March 2015)

OP, my advice would be to wait and see what the outcome of the mri is. We could list a tonne of stuff and you could go and google it and panic yourself crazy, but ultimately it is all pointless until you have a proper diagnosis. Mine has recently been through a full lameness workup including bone scans, xrays and mris. Throughout the process I tried to second guess results based on my existing knowledge and that caused me more stress than just waiting and seeing. Its hard, but really what is the point of reading (in my case) all about suspensory damage and panicking about that only to find suspensories were fine and problem was something else entirely. 

Also in your position I would nevr use that particular physio again.


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## PolarSkye (8 March 2015)

Fun Times said:



			OP, my advice would be to wait and see what the outcome of the mri is. We could list a tonne of stuff and you could go and google it and panic yourself crazy, but ultimately it is all pointless until you have a proper diagnosis. Mine has recently been through a full lameness workup including bone scans, xrays and mris. Throughout the process I tried to second guess results based on my existing knowledge and that caused me more stress than just waiting and seeing. Its hard, but really what is the point of reading (in my case) all about suspensory damage and panicking about that only to find suspensories were fine and problem was something else entirely. 

Also in your position I would nevr use that particular physio again.
		
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This.  And please let us know how your beautiful girl gets on . . . will be awaiting updates and keeping everything crossed for you.

P


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## Victoria25 (9 March 2015)

Have you had farrier out to check her feet? My mare was lame a few years ago (on and off) - vet came out dug around looking for an abscess, said wasn't sure if it was or not but poultice it anyway .. and got a huge bill (the vet was soon replaced!) farrier came the next day found it within seconds, burst it, horse was fine! £15 bill!!!


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## ester (9 March 2015)

Staggered that your physio suggested box rest and not picking out feet. 

good luck with the work up, fingers crossed you might get away with just xrays, they can also block different parts of the foot to help with locating the issue too. If it is an abscess it has been there a long time so I would be wanting to xray to see if they could locate it anyway.


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## xoxellaxox (9 March 2015)

I've had my farrier the day after the vet . He's took her shoes off as the vet adviced and given her feet a good trim . She was not happy about her right front foot being messed with . My farrier was quite on the defensive if I'm honest and sept not to happy when I told him about the x rays ect . Which has made me wonder why . I've looked on here for reviews on my farrier and they haven't been good at all which has not made me very worried . Plus her x rays are being taken 9 Friday 13th . Just my luck! I'm feeling sick worrying about her


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## Fun Times (9 March 2015)

Don't worry too much - some farriers just get nervy and defensive knowing that vets will be interrogating what the farrier thinks of as his "territory". My vet and farrier work closely together as a team, but I am conscious that not all have a harmonious relationship. Good luck on friday, let us know how you get on.


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## Fun Times (13 March 2015)

Good luck with the xrays today OP, let us know how you get on. Fingers crossed for a good answer!


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## Greylegs (13 March 2015)

Following with interest because my boy has the same problem. Box resting for a couple of days .... We'll see how he goes.


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## xoxellaxox (14 March 2015)

HI everyone . Ok so she had the x rays yesterday . Everything is where it should be , no breaks or fractures, but in her right foot her side bones have started to grow (forgot the medical term)  . He then x rayed her left foot . On the inside on her left foot she has a huge side bone! I've never heard of side bone before so this looked extreamly scary . He said that side bone don't usually causes lameness , and as she's not lame on her left leg and this has the huge side bone I guess that must be right ? Anyways he's then used a nerve block into just her foot this time and she was sound , so I know there is something on there . He wants her to go away for an mri scan.  He didn't say where .  My vet said in the old days he would put it down to a badly trimmed foot and turn her away for a few months then see how she is . But now we have mri that's probably the best way forward . 
   So after he left I told a woman on the yard and she pretty much said my mare needs to be put to sleep as ill never be able to jump her or school her or do a thing with her again because if side bone !! I've spent the night crying ! I now don't know what to do ! The vet told me it shouldn't affect her ! He also told me to keep her barefoot as the foot is a natural shock absorption. Oh I should add that after her shoes came off she looked 90% better and the lameness is hardly showing now . She also can be turned out now ! Yay! So if anyone has any advice as what you think it might be and if there's anything I can give her to help please let me know ! Thanks


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## be positive (14 March 2015)

Side bone should not be the end of the world, listen to your vet not the scaremongering liveries remember they are the people who told you to just get the physio so are hardly experts, some horses do get sore when the sidebones are settling but once they have settled down usually give no further trouble. 
Taking her shoes off will have reduced the concussion and be allowing her feet to adapt to support without the restriction, having a vet suggesting they stay off is a step in the right direction, many will be wanting to put on remedial shoes, so having a vet thinking that shoes off is the way to go is a great start. Her left foot has an established sidebone which gives her no trouble so there is no reason to think the new ones in her right foot will not be the same, the MRI will enable the vets to see if there is anything else going on that requires treatment, if nothing shows you should be able to get on and ride her in the near future.

Having her barefoot and in work may require some management/ feeding changes, there are plenty of threads on here that can help you with this, hope the MRI gives you good news.


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## Meowy Catkin (14 March 2015)

I'm very impressed with your Vet suggesting that keeping the shoes off will help your mare. I used to know a horse with both ringbone and sidebone and she was much, much happier out of shoes. As above, don't listen to the scaremongering livery. Fingers crossed that there is nothing on the MRI, but if there is something that fits into the 'navicular' spectrum, then that's also better with shoes off.

Have a look at the work of Rockley Farm, the barefoot rehabilitation yard. They have a very interesting blog showing the progress of their rehab horses.


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## Fun Times (14 March 2015)

Great post from Bepositive. Disregard that other livery entirely, your vet is the qualified person that has been examining the horse, not her. In fact I would probably never take on board any advice from her ever again! Things will settle, its always horrid when you are going through the early days of investigations. I don't know much about sidebone but this really doesn't sound like the end of the world, honestly. Stay off google though,  just listen to your vet!

Cross posted with Faracat! I agree with her too.


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## Copperpot (14 March 2015)

My horse has a big side bone and it doesn't affect him. He is shod slightly differently to accommodate it and has pads when the ground is hard. He also went lame with the same symptoms. X Rays showed nothing (although that's how we discovered the side bone). He was booked in for an MRI and came sound a few days before.  The vet said probably soft tissue injury of the foot. So I basically left him resting in the field for a good few months and have had no issues since. 

I did consider taking his shoes off and have taken his backs off. However as he seems to be doing well with fronts on and the pads,I don't want to rock the boat!!


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## xoxellaxox (18 April 2015)

Hi everyone . I just wanted to post an update on here for some advice .nothing happened since my last post regarding her MRI scan. I am still waiting for my vet to refer her which is annoying. I have kept her barefoot and she is now turned out 24/7. My vet said no shoes till her MRI results . anyways I trotted her up last night to see how she is and she seems lame on BOTH front feet. I could cry!! She was the worst I've ever seen her . she struggled walking down hill back to the field as well . she doesn't appear to be lame in the field . she's trots around and looks lovely . when I trotted her up last night it was in the school on the sand. She's been lame since January and I've been waiting since the start of march for this MRI. I'm getting a lot of people saying she needs remedial shies and not to go ahead with the MRI. The thing is my vets only referring her for the right front foot and now she's showing lame on the left !!! I'm so so fed up as she's only 7 and she is bombproof and an amazing horse and I just want her better !! A few people have no said it could be navicular problem but my vetshoesnever mentioned that at all. I live a long way from the vets where she will be going for the MRI and I will be hiring a transport company to take her and ideally I don't want her to keep going back and forth there ! I feel like getting a farrier to come out and look at her but my vet has advised to do nothing till her MRI. She's now tripping up over her toes !! I could cry for her but I'm just sat here waiting for things to happen i keep ringing  the vets and they keep saying they are very busy and will send the referal soon . I'm very very fed up


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## Fun Times (18 April 2015)

Good grief OP, where are you based? Waiting over six weeks for an mri is generally accepted for humans on the nhs but in the case if horses this is not right at all. My horse was mri'd within a week of the vet suggesting he needed it. Your vet sounds next to useless to be honest. As for navicular, i am NOT saying it definitely is that but the symptoms you are describing do fit - it is often bilateral. I think you need a different and more proactive vet.


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## Moomin1 (18 April 2015)

xoxellaxox said:



			Hi everyone, to cut a very long story short, my horse went lame in January on her right front leg. She went sound one week then lame another. She is extremely lame in the school but not out hacking. Three weeks ago, she wasn't showing any signs of it improving so i got a physio out. He straight away said she has torn the muscle in her shoulder. Although when you press this or move it she shows no sign of pain. He told me a month of box rest and not to pick her feet out so her feet stay on the ground...

 So three weeks into the box rest I decided that i'd quite like my vet to look at her. He came out and was not very happy about the physio saying to not pick her feet out, he spent over a hour checking her whole body and doing all the necessary lameness tests on her . He said it is NOT her shoulder, her shoulder is fine . He then used two nerve blocking injections into her fetlock on her right front leg, he explained this would numb any pain from her fetlock into her foot. I when trotted her up and she was sound! No sigh of lameness at all .  So he knows it is something to do with her foot now.

She is now booked in for an MRI and x-ray scan of this foot next week, my vet also advised me to  have her shoes taken off which I did yesterday . 

She is a big chunky Irish cob and she is clean limbed and only 6. Apart from hacking she has hardly done anything to warren how lame she is . I am so so worried about her and really want her to be better. She has taken to box rest so well and is being such a calm good girl through it all . 

Has anyone got any idea what could be causing this ?
		
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And this is exactly why it really grates on me that people get physios out before a vet. 

What a perfect example of how a horse can suffer as a result.


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## cobgoblin (18 April 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			And this is exactly why it really grates on me that people get physios out before a vet. 

What a perfect example of how a horse can suffer as a result.
		
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OP a has already said she wished she had called the vet first, so this is hardly a useful comment unless you want to make someone feel really bad!

Hope all goes well OP and your horse can be sorted.


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## Fun Times (18 April 2015)

Also OP, is the horse insured? It has just occurred to me that if not your vet may be trying to save you the cost of the scan and only do it if absolutey necesssry. If insured, i cannot understand why the delay from the vet at all.


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## Wagtail (18 April 2015)

OP your horse probably just has sore feet due to not being used to not having shoes and the dry weather of late. I know our land is quite hard and dry at the moment. I would not shoe the horse. Instead, I would get a pair of well fitting hoof boots and thick pads for your horse to wear at least some of the time. This should help a lot. I hope you get your referral sorted out soon.


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## Fun Times (18 April 2015)

Wagtail said:



			OP your horse probably just has sore feet due to not being used to not having shoes and the dry weather of late. I know our land is quite hard and dry at the moment. I would not shoe the horse. Instead, I would get a pair of well fitting hoof boots and thick pads for your horse to wear at least some of the time. This should help a lot. I hope you get your referral sorted out soon.
		
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I dont dispute this is a good idea but i think the horse had been lame and had already nerve blocked to the foot before the shoes came off, so there is probably something else underlying.


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## Firefly9410 (18 April 2015)

I read Wagtails post as advice on why the horse was now more lame and on both hooves, not as going against the vet. OP if hoof boots does not help I would tell the vet about the increased lameness. I would not shoe at this point and not use your farrier again either given that your vet mentioned (for an uninsured horse?) putting the lameness down down to bad trimming and try field rest. MRI is expensive do you have insurance?


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## Wagtail (18 April 2015)

Fun Times said:



			I dont dispute this is a good idea but i think the horse had been lame and had already nerve blocked to the foot before the shoes came off, so there is probably something else underlying.
		
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I agree there is probably something else underlying. I am merely saying that the horse may now also have sore feet (in addition) and this may be the reason she is sore on BOTH feet now, because the OP is really disheartened. The horse may not have deteriorated as much as she thinks if sore feet are causing the extra lameness.


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## Fun Times (18 April 2015)

Wagtail said:



			I agree there is probably something else underlying. I am merely saying that the horse may now also have sore feet (in addition) and this may be the reason she is sore on BOTH feet now, because the OP is really disheartened. The horse may not have deteriorated as much as she thinks if sore feet are causing the extra lameness.
		
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Sorry wagtail, i realise now what you meant (having a very thick morning) and its a good point. Fingers crossed you are right.


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## xoxellaxox (18 April 2015)

Yes she is insured thankfully. I shall be ringing again first thing Monday morning to see what's happening with her scan . Thanks guys .


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## Exploding Chestnuts (18 April 2015)

I hope your horse gets better soon, in the meantime lets be clear: in case of lameness ask a vet to diagnose, not a physio. No physio should attend a horse without the agreement of a vet. That is the law.
I don't know why you would follow the advice of any unqualified person about a veterinary issue, it should be obvious that your vet is the person to ask, not a crowd of people on a forum who have no qualifications and have not seen the horse.
Any lameness is a potentially serious condition, it should be diagnosed and treated when it appears, not three months down the line.
Pain relief is available from the vet. Use an equine vet not a small animal vet.
If the feet need trimmed find a good farrier, phone up the local equine university and ask them who they use or tell us where you are and we will advise on a good vet and farrier local to you.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (18 April 2015)

If your vet is not willing to discuss these things with you and is not doing anything to help this horse, then get a better vet.


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## Auslander (18 April 2015)

It's a crappy situation, and one in which I would be having strong words with the vets, and if they didn't pull their fingers out immediately, I'd be changing to a practice that will make things happen.

Physios are not allowed to diagnose -they must work with veterinary referral. If your physio doesn't, get a different physio. And as for the people on your yard - they should be ashamed of themselves. It sounds like a very unpleasant environment - I'd be looking to bring the horse home to a new yard after the MRI trip. Horse ownership is supposed to be enjoyable!


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## laura_nash (18 April 2015)

Sounds like you've a few fellow liveries it is best not to talk to too much, most yards have them sadly.  Can't believe the lady telling you to PTS due to sidebone!  At this point you don't even know for sure if the sidebone is causing the lameness, many horses have sidebone and it never makes them lame.  Your vet's advice and comments all sound very sensible, shame they are now dragging their heels so much over the MRI.  

In the meantime I would be reading up on how to make your mare more comfortable out of shoes, i.e. boots and pads like wagtail suggested, in the meantime you can use nappies and gaffer tape, something like this - http://www.examiner.com/article/diapers-and-duct-tape-the-perfect-horse-boot, review diet.  Ignore all the people trying to diagnose and suggest treatments.  If it is navicular then that is not a death sentence and the MRI will find it, remedial shoeing is certainly not a cure-all - particularly if the farrier doesn't actually know the problem they are trying to fix.  

Personally from what you have said I would not be using the same farrier again just in case (vet suggested may be bad trimming, farrier defensive about feet being x-rayed, bad reviews).  I would usually suggest word of mouth to find a good one, but it sounds like that is not a great idea at your yard since they suggested the original physio so maybe ask on here?


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## Nudibranch (19 April 2015)

OP have you spoken to the vet again? I would just nag them to be honest, until you get the MRI and hopefully some answers. Some useful advice from Wagtail and others. I'm sorry some people have been a bit rude and patronising on here, don't let them or your fellow liveries put you off. Keep speaking to your vet and meanwhile it's definitely worth looking at the Rockley blog and a book called Feet First. They will arm you with some useful background info.


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## meesha (19 April 2015)

Didn't want to post as this is not what you want to hear and hopefully you will have different outcome but ........  My mare went lame 14 years ago, xrays showed enormous side bone (you can feel an egg sized lump) she is OK grazing in field or uphill but doesn't do well downhill, on hard ground or oddly if really hot weather.  I could still hack her round block at first but made decision to retire her.  Vet thinks most of lameness is mechanical as side bone is so large is interfering with normal movement of foot.

Things that definitely helped, 24/7 turnout on flat ground, joint supplement and most importantly shoe removal.

Nearly all side bone cases settle down and they are fine, fingers crossed for you x

Also meant to say we tried shoes with pads, the pads almost crippled her, had pads and shes removed and immediate improvement.


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## Emma Smith (19 April 2015)

Hi there 

I am having the exact same problem as you described. My horse has also been lame since February on and off on the right fore, and there is no heat, swelling or anything like that. My vet came out to X-ray her feet and fetlocks and said it could be a cyst but isn't completely convinced it is, and we are now being referred for an MRI scan - waiting on insurance as that seems to be taking the longest! He also nerve blocked initially, the foot, then the fetlock and she was totally sound - couldn't believe it! Like you, it started gradually and is now everyday. She's been consistently lame for 2 weeks now but somehow seems to be worse in the hot weather. Have you noticed a change in your horse's lameness from weather fluctuation? Would be really interesting to hear what the problem is, when you do find out. 

Emma


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## Exploding Chestnuts (19 April 2015)

Emma Smith said:



			Hi there 

I am having the exact same problem as you described. My horse has also been lame since February on and off on the right fore, and there is no heat, swelling or anything like that. My vet came out to X-ray her feet and fetlocks and said it could be a cyst but isn't completely convinced it is, and we are now being referred for an MRI scan - waiting on insurance as that seems to be taking the longest! He also nerve blocked initially, the foot, then the fetlock and she was totally sound - couldn't believe it! Like you, it started gradually and is now everyday. She's been consistently lame for 2 weeks now but somehow seems to be worse in the hot weather. Have you noticed a change in your horse's lameness from weather fluctuation? Would be really interesting to hear what the problem is, when you do find out. 

Emma
		
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WHy are you waiting on insurance, don't you do the MRI then claim, the vet is the one to diagnose not the insurance company. I can't see any reason to wait, its not the NHS..............


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## Emma Smith (19 April 2015)

Bonkers2 said:



			WHy are you waiting on insurance, don't you do the MRI then claim, the vet is the one to diagnose not the insurance company. I can't see any reason to wait, its not the NHS..............
		
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It's because the vet wants to be sure it will be covered by the insurance as I can't afford to pay for it.


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## SO1 (19 April 2015)

How good is your grazing and your cob overweight? If you have a good doer cob out 24/7 and not being worked on good grazing a bit overweight could this recent about of lameness in both front feet be the start of laminitis?


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## Exploding Chestnuts (19 April 2015)

Emma Smith said:



			It's because the vet wants to be sure it will be covered by the insurance as I can't afford to pay for it.
		
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Have you removed the shoes and changed the diet .......... hi fibre lo sugar, boosted minerals such as pro earth or forageplus, add some salt, this may be what you decide on later anyway, so best to start now. see Rockley Farm re hab blogs.
It may be easier to reduce weight if you stable  for part of the day [thick shavings bed] and feed well soaked hay. Use a weigh tape weekly, average over two weeks.
Send a letter to the vet of the insurance, get anything in writing. I hope it is not E&L or other associated companies.?


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## Dan Brown (19 April 2015)

Hi OP

You have had some great advice on this thread so far, but there is a limit to what anyone can recommend without a solid diagnosis.

The foot is a very complex structure and a lot of things within it can cause pain, and hence, lameness. There are about 15 different diagnoses for a horse that "blocks to the foot". This used to be THE test for navicular syndrome but it is now recognized that that term is fairly useless and that anyone who looks at a foot lame horse without imaging it and pronounces that they know exactly what it is should not be trusted.

The route your are taking by getting an MRI is the best possible way for you to get an answer as to exactly what is causing the problem in your horse's foot. And when you have that answer you can work with your vet to develop a specific, targeted treatment plan.

I hope the news is good, and I wish you all the best with getting your horse sound again


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## xoxellaxox (10 May 2015)

Hi just wanted to update people on this . My girl has  hairline fracture on her pedal bone ! All this time she's had it and it would only get worse in time . So she's got a hoof cast on . She's had an painkiller injection and she's on box rest for 6 weeks!  the vets seem very positive at this will work for her . The switching of lameness she said is because she's held a lot of her weight on her front left leg to avoid the pain and has caused a small amount of bruising in her foot . This should heal on time .


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## KrujaaLass (10 May 2015)

So glad you got a proper diagnoses. Hopefully all will go well for your girl


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## Exploding Chestnuts (10 May 2015)

Thanks for the update, often we are left in the  dark, I hope it all works out for you, make sure you ask vet if she will need sedation when turned out, as you don't want her to go bonkers.
Keep bedding immaculate, as you want to keep her feet healthy. Good luck.


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## ALO (15 May 2015)

Hi, how did your vet diagnose this?was it seen on X-ray?im going through a similar thing, I've had X-rays done but although they ruled out most things were not conclusive. Vet is also thinking hairline fracture. What prognosis have you been given?


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