# Ashdale Cruise Master at Oasby



## amyneave (16 October 2011)

See on the results that ashdale cruise master was doing the OI at oasby. His first run since badminton. I heard ACM had had surgery. Anyone know anything about this?


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## kirstyhen (16 October 2011)

I thought I saw him! No idea on anything other than that though!


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## photo_jo (16 October 2011)

retired xc


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## dunkley (16 October 2011)

Retired XC, and was lame when he came back through the finish


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## amyneave (17 October 2011)

Oh dear. I saw he had retired xc. Hope its nothing to serious.


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## Tiggy012 (17 October 2011)

If ACM had surgery after Badminton (?) you would have to question why you would want to run him at the end of the season rather than slowly build up fitness again in my humble and non-professional opinion?  Hopefully we will see him fit and sound again next season.


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## Lace57 (17 October 2011)

Yes ACM has had surgery and it was pretty major op which most horses wud under go alot of rehab but wud u expect ne thing different from ollie?!


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## Maesfen (17 October 2011)

Lace57 said:



			Yes ACM has had surgery and it was pretty major op which most horses wud under go alot of rehab but wud u expect ne thing different from ollie?!
		
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Not when you take the owner into account as well, they're both as bad as each other; poor horse.


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## HappyHorses:) (17 October 2011)

Lace57 said:



			Yes ACM has had surgery and it was pretty major op which most horses wud under go alot of rehab but wud u expect ne thing different from ollie?!
		
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Is he still ridden by Ollie? Hope it's nothing to serious, poor horse  
Does anyone know what was his op for?


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## Lace57 (17 October 2011)

From what I was told from what should be quite a reliable source. Something along the lines of kissing spines and had loads of cartilage removed from a big number of vertebraes. Not sure how true this is but from my source i'd like to think it was v true


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## angelish (17 October 2011)

gob smacked


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## amyneave (18 October 2011)

lets hope over the winter he gets some rest, and comes back sound and well next spring


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## lannerch (18 October 2011)

I think it unfair to comment whether or not olli and owner should have run acm when we do not know the facts!
All I can say he did manage to keep Questy sound enough to win burghly a horse that like toy town has legs of glass!


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## lannerch (26 October 2011)

Have heard he's now been put down


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## Vetwrap (26 October 2011)

lannerch said:



			Have heard he's now been put down
		
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Very sad, if this is correct.


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## MadisonBelle (26 October 2011)

^^^ Very said if all of the entire post so far is correct


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## Saratoga (26 October 2011)

If it is true he had a major op after Badminton, and was rushed to compete this year and now been put down that's very sad indeed


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## Maesfen (26 October 2011)

Very sad if true and just shows that his welfare was never a major issue for the owner.


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## Empy&Treacle (26 October 2011)

Lace57 said:



			From what I was told from what should be quite a reliable source. Something along the lines of kissing spines and had loads of cartilage removed from a big number of vertebraes. Not sure how true this is but from my source i'd like to think it was v true
		
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Blimey, poor boy if he was back doing an OI within the space of not much more than 5 months after KS/similar surgery   No wonder he was lame when he pulled up 

Didn't see the possible PTS comments - If true that's very sad indeed!!!


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## ArcticFox (26 October 2011)

I don't think we can comment on anything without knowing the facts.  We don't know if the horse actually had kissing spine surgery, we don't know what his recovery from the unknown surgery was like.  We don't know if after 5 months he was back to full fitness and jumping well at home.  I am guessing as I don't know this either but I would imagine that his owners and rider would have jumped him at home to see how he was doing and to build up his fitness for the event.  I can imagine that a horse requires alot of fittening work to build up to an OI though - not a level to be half hearted at.  We also don't know why the horse was PTS - maybe it was unrelated to the injury, maybe it was.  Maybe the right thing for this horse was PTS.  

As we know none of those answers, maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions.  

PS - I for one do not like OT so I am not replying at his defense, but in light of the recent threads on here, maybe we should realise that there are two sides to every story.  

** crawls back under rock ***


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## Bubblegum (26 October 2011)

ArcticFox said:



			I don't think we can comment on anything without knowing the facts.  We don't know if the horse actually had kissing spine surgery, we don't know what his recovery from the unknown surgery was like.  We don't know if after 5 months he was back to full fitness and jumping well at home.  I am guessing as I don't know this either but I would imagine that his owners and rider would have jumped him at home to see how he was doing and to build up his fitness for the event.  I can imagine that a horse requires alot of fittening work to build up to an OI though - not a level to be half hearted at.  We also don't know why the horse was PTS - maybe it was unrelated to the injury, maybe it was.  Maybe the right thing for this horse was PTS.  

As we know none of those answers, maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions.  

PS - I for one do not like OT so I am not replying at his defense, but in light of the recent threads on here, maybe we should realise that there are two sides to every story.  

** crawls back under rock ***
		
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well said.


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## diggerbez (26 October 2011)

oh thats very sad 

as AF said though- we can't really comment/criticise when its all just hearsay....


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## dunkley (26 October 2011)

lannerch said:



			Have heard he's now been put down
		
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Very sad if true. How confident are you in your source? Horse's mouth, or friend of a friend of a friend?


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## lannerch (26 October 2011)

It's from a very reliable source unfortunately


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## dunkley (26 October 2011)

lannerch said:



			It's from a very reliable source unfortunately
		
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 I have also made some enquiries.......... very sad, as before.


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## HappyHorses:) (26 October 2011)

lannerch said:



			It's from a very reliable source unfortunately
		
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Does your source know why he was PTS? Very sad if true


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## meandmyself (26 October 2011)

ACM's page on the BE website isn't marked that he's dead.


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## VGM (27 October 2011)

very sensitively put there meandmyself i dont for one moment think that the people involveds priority wild be notifying be there are a lot of horses not out there anymore that according to be are fit and well


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## kerilli (27 October 2011)

very sad if true.


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## lil'chesnut (27 October 2011)

does anyone know then what has happened?  there's been nothing said on Ollie's facebook page...

i hope he hasnt been PTS


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## kerilli (27 October 2011)

I have been reliably informed that it is true, he has very sadly been PTS.
Apparently it was not because of the lameness but something internal.
R.I.P. Splash.
Sincere condolences to all connections.


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## Wilbur_Force (27 October 2011)

Oh that's a dreadful shame.  RIP Splash.  My heart goes out to all concerned


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## lil'chesnut (27 October 2011)

good god!!!   so sad to hear this. too many good horses are being lost 
my sincere condolences to all involved with such a great horse.

RIP lad.


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## Loopypony (27 October 2011)

Has anyone directly associated with Oli/ACM confirmed that he has indeed been pts?

Will be so sad if he has, he had a lot of talent which he had yet to show...


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## Bearsmum (27 October 2011)

That's very sad, he was a really lovey horse. So upsetting for all connected.

RIP ACM

JDx


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## CalllyH (28 October 2011)

I'm not a massive oli fan but I do think oli will be quite upset if he has been pts. He as his moments but I don't think he sets out to deliberately injure his horses. 

I'm surprised it's not on his Facebook or twitter page as they update it lots


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## BEUnderTheInfluence (28 October 2011)

I don't know about you guys but my thoughts go out to Emily Gilruth, poor girl made that horse, had to watch it crash a lot and then be PTS. Wish she has kept the ride, he didn't look the same afterwards.... R.I.P, sad loss.


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## VGM (28 October 2011)

i agree with beundertheinfluence on that one but unless i am told by someone directly related that it is a definite im not taking anyone elses word no matter how reliable their sources i know people very very closely associated with them so until they confirm it im not going to one hundred percent believe a forum


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## lannerch (28 October 2011)

Well said beundertheinfluence wish we had a like button in here! Very wise vgm but unfortunatly like you I know people very closely associated and it's definatly confirmed as true.


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## amyneave (28 October 2011)

Very sad. R.I.P Splash. 
I'm not a huge Oli fan, but did have a soft spot for this horse. Very sad for all involved. I really feel for Emily Gilruth.


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## Cyrus (28 October 2011)

I believe it has been confirmed by people who work for Oliver
Thoughts go to Oliver, he really did think a lot of that horse, Emily and of course Quest who I know is missing his stable mate


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## dunkley (28 October 2011)

Black Beth said:








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Doesn't he look fantastic?


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## Maesfen (28 October 2011)

Yes, he did then.


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## amyneave (28 October 2011)

He does look fantastic. He was a super horse with much more to give. He was only 12 so could have done so much more


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## Cyrus (28 October 2011)

My favourite picture of when I met both Carousel Quest and Ashdale Cruise Master last year on a visit to Olivers yard


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## amyneave (28 October 2011)

Cyrus said:



			My favourite picture of when I met both Carousel Quest and Ashdale Cruise Master last year on a visit to Olivers yard






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lovely picture 

I like this one I found of him.


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## Tiggy012 (28 October 2011)

Maesfen said:



			Very sad if true and just shows that his welfare was never a major issue for the owner.
		
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In defense of Splash, he didn't look like a horse that would leave a leg in those fabulous pictures.  Irrespective of people's opinion of OT, he was a talented & sensitive horse who was NOT a man's ride, I agree with Maesfen regarding the owner....


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## PooJay (28 October 2011)

I must admit, although i don't like to comment on the pro's normally, I did think that the OT partnership looked a little forced. 

Those photo's of him with the lady on he looks a lot more happy (although as we've discovered photo's can be misleading )


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## amyneave (28 October 2011)

PooJay said:



			I must admit, although i don't like to comment on the pro's normally, I did think that the OT partnership looked a little forced. 

Those photo's of him with the lady on he looks a lot more happy (although as we've discovered photo's can be misleading )
		
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I saw Oli and Ashdale Cruise Master competing on about 4 or 5 occasions and although the horse looked happy enough, the relationship at times did look slightly forced. I agree that I don't think Splash was a man's ride (I'm not saying Oli is a bad rider), but perhaps the owners felt that to get the best out of him he needed a firmer rider than Emily Gilruth (or another woman for that matter), such as Oli.


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## marmalade76 (28 October 2011)

BEUnderTheInfluence said:



			I don't know about you guys but my thoughts go out to Emily Gilruth, poor girl made that horse, had to watch it crash a lot and then be PTS. Wish she has kept the ride, he didn't look the same afterwards.... R.I.P, sad loss.
		
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Ditto that


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## PooJay (28 October 2011)

amyneave said:



			I saw Oli and Ashdale Cruise Master competing on about 4 or 5 occasions and although the horse looked happy enough, the relationship at times did look slightly forced. I agree that I don't think Splash was a man's ride (I'm not saying Oli is a bad rider), but perhaps the owners felt that to get the best out of him he needed a firmer rider than Emily Gilruth (or another woman for that matter), such as Oli.
		
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Maybe so but defo agree on the lady rider bit. Very sad.


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## dunkley (28 October 2011)

amyneave said:



			I like this one I found of him. 





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Looks like a horse _loving_ his job


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## amyneave (28 October 2011)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competitionnews/391/310234.html 

sadly its true. it says 
'Ashdale Cruise Master had a number of internal problems that unfortunately couldnt be treated. '

Very sad. made a quick video for him if anyone is interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FG3jSdPy_g


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## dunkley (28 October 2011)

Very sad, as many people have said.

"But he seemed to lose his co-ordination half way around the cross-country, so I quickly pulled him up, he added. 

I have never had any extreme opinions on OT, either way.  Some things have made me feel a little, uncomfortable, shall we say, but there is no denying the talent and determination. However........ _if_ this had been _my_ horse, and this had happened half way round, and the horse was lame, I sincerely hope I would have _led_ him back. 

RIP Splash - a lovely horse.


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## millimoo (28 October 2011)

Poor horse, such a shame ... Looked amazing in the photos with his other rider. 
Oli seem to have ridden his way through quite a few decent horses over the years (is it just bad luck?/ timing with age of horses etc) - just an observation and my own personal opinion, and Im the first to hold my hand up and say I don't Event.
RIP Splash... they had you best interests at heart at the end


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## lannerch (28 October 2011)

What I would really like to know is who advised oli to run acm so soon after such a major operation? What were they trying to achieve?
Surely the horse deserved a longer period to build back strength and recuperate.
Rip splash.


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## fastfilly (28 October 2011)

very valid point


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## oldvic (28 October 2011)

The horse went to Oli to be ridden more competitively - Emily rode him very well but always within a zone that was easy for him. When you take a horse out of that area to a speed that is required to be successful, then mistakes are more likely to occur - many horses can jump the fences if time is taken presenting them at the fence but you don't have that luxury if you are going to win. Therefore it is incorrect to say he was better for a girl. I suspect that Emily didn't feel able to take him at the required speed and keep his jump. From what I saw the horse became unadjustable when he started to get tired (at about 8 mins). You cannot critisize Oli for trying in Kentucky as he wasn't to know this - the horse had never been asked to go for the time. He was placed in Luhmuhlen so surely it was worth trying at Badminton - if you don't try you won't get.
It looks to me like this sad situation has become another excuse for Oli bashing. He certainly has my sympathy for losing a friend.


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## alwaysbroke (28 October 2011)

oldvic said:



			It looks to me like this sad situation has become another excuse for Oli bashing. He certainly has my sympathy for losing a friend.
		
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Well said, some things that are said on here make me feel uncomfortable, you never know who reads what is written, we all have feelings and can be hurt.

Having lost a family horse recently my sympathies go to everyone who has been touched by the loss of ACM, may he rest in peace.


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## yeeharider (28 October 2011)

So sad RIP Splash condolences to all associated with him


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## strange (28 October 2011)

I worked on Emily's yard immediately after Splash was taken, have seen and heard everything from her side and can say she didn't let him go without a fight. It's a very sad story that's marred my opinion of Oli. Granted, he's a brilliant rider, but has shown some bad sportsmanship.

RIP Splash


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## CalllyH (29 October 2011)

Like sad I really do think oli will be gutted by this so rather than offering my full opinion all I will say is rip splash.


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## Cheiro1 (29 October 2011)

Very sad, RIP Splash


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## amyneave (29 October 2011)

I agree that I'm sure Oli will be sad.


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## lannerch (29 October 2011)

Offcourse oli will be upset that really does not need stating no one is suggesting different!


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## blue2262 (29 October 2011)

It seems very strange to me, if he his internal problems were so bad that he had to be PTS, why were they not spotted when he had surgery earlier? The article is very vague and simply doesnt say what was wrong with him. I just dont understand how he could go from being fit enough to run in an OI to being so ill in such a short time, would his problems not have shown themselves in training/ schooling?


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## amyneave (29 October 2011)

You would think the coordination problems would have happened at home as well. However as you say it doesn't say what was wrong with him exactly, so we can't really judge how obvious the problem would have been while schooling. I do see your point though


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## lannerch (29 October 2011)

Surely the vets were involved again who advised oli to run?
I suspect strongly it was not oli's decision.


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## Maesfen (29 October 2011)

oldvic said:



			The horse went to Oli to be ridden more competitively - Emily rode him very well but always within a zone that was easy for him. When you take a horse out of that area to a speed that is required to be successful, then mistakes are more likely to occur - many horses can jump the fences if time is taken presenting them at the fence but you don't have that luxury if you are going to win. Therefore it is incorrect to say he was better for a girl. I suspect that Emily didn't feel able to take him at the required speed and keep his jump. From what I saw the horse became unadjustable when he started to get tired (at about 8 mins). You cannot critisize Oli for trying in Kentucky as he wasn't to know this - the horse had never been asked to go for the time. He was placed in Luhmuhlen so surely it was worth trying at Badminton - if you don't try you won't get.
It looks to me like this sad situation has become another excuse for Oli bashing. He certainly has my sympathy for losing a friend.
		
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Have you ever thought that Emily did, indeed, know the horse well enough to be aware of his limitations and if OT is that brilliant, shouldn't he have known it too?  Of course then you have an owner grabbing for glory so he and OT were very mutually compatible regardless of Splash's well being which seems secondary to their greed for success.  Very sad for Splash.


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## dunkley (29 October 2011)

oldvic said:



			It looks to me like this sad situation has become another excuse for Oli bashing. He certainly has my sympathy for losing a friend.
		
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Actually, OV, I think you are unfair on this comment.  I also thought the thread would deteriorate but, actually, people have been very restrained, and no personal 'bashing' has occurred.  Opinions have been expressed as to 'why' certain things have happened, opinions have been expressed on the perceived 'happiness' of ACM with his previous rider, opinions have been expressed as to the perceived 'priorities' of connections.
I think the overiding feeling has been sadness at the loss of a beautiful, talented, much-loved horse - at a young age.  There are only a handful of people who will ever know the full details.  As it should be, really, after all it's a private matter.  I'm sure everyone directly involved acted solely with the horse's best interests at heart.


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## Orangehorse (29 October 2011)

RIP Splash, and sympathies to everyone involved.

I too get very uncomfortable about some comments.  I well remember an article by Richard Meade who said people used to buy him horses to try to win Badminton/a medal, etc. and then he found that the previous rider had taken them to the limit of their capability.  But you can't find that out until you try them at 4 star/Badminton, etc.  There was a very recent article in H & H about a horse (can't remember the name) that was a very good horse, but just couldn't last to the end of a cross country course, yet has found another niche.

I thought Oli brought out and won at Gatcombe on the horse that Mark Todd won at Badminton.  I don't remember him getting a huge amount of credit for that, and he must have been very disappointed not to be riding him.


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## ajn1610 (29 October 2011)

As we are not Oli, Emily, the owners or the vets we can't know anything for sure. I think it's very sad for the horse and all of those involved. Beyond that we can't really make a comment as we don't know all the facts. I find it odd to suggest that people have intentionally put the horse at risk in order to be competitive, the horse represents a massive financial investment, even if the interested parties didn't give a monkeys about it's welfare (not saying this is true but for argument's sake) I find it hard to believe they'd be prepared to potentially damage their investment. 
The reality of the sport is that it is dangerous for both horse and rider, and it takes a special combination to be successful at top level. Riders are competitive, they want to win, if someone offers them a good ride they are going to take it. Would you knock a ride back that would take you to the next level? The riders are dependent on success to continue competing and make ends meet, remember this is their livelihood not their hobby, I get a bit frustrated on here when people seem happy to demonise or sanctify certain riders, I think a lot of people have a somewhat unrealistic idea of what it takes to be competitive at that level.


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## amyneave (29 October 2011)

Orangehorse said:



			RIP Splash, and sympathies to everyone involved.
There was a very recent article in H & H about a horse (can't remember the name) that was a very good horse, but just couldn't last to the end of a cross country course, yet has found another niche.
		
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That was If You Want II. He won the express eventing this year. He was a horse was could be in top 4 or 5 after dressage at badminton, but every time he would just bottom out two or three fences from home. I believe he had surgery to try to help him manage the longer courses, but I don't think it worked well enough for him to be competetive at 4*. 

Just had a quick look at ACM's BE record. I think it had been mentioned that he had never really been pushed for the time at major competitions before Oli got him. However he was clear inside the time at Bramham CCI*** in 2009 with Emily and finished 5th. I know that isn't a round a four star course but its shows he did have the ability to make the time at major competitons.


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## lannerch (29 October 2011)

So he did,  the results contrary to previous posts are also very competitive with Emily.


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## kerilli (29 October 2011)

Orangehorse said:



			I thought Oli brought out and won at Gatcombe on the horse that Mark Todd won at Badminton.  I don't remember him getting a huge amount of credit for that, and he must have been very disappointed not to be riding him.
		
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Land Vision? Yes, and he made a very very very nice profit in 1 year if the numbers I was told are true, as I suspect they are. That's the choice any rider/owner makes - take the profit while the horse is still sound and fine, or hang on and hope it stays right and take the glory... if it comes...   
OT has been shrewd and successful enough to make enough money to buy his own place
at an impressively young age, all credit to him. You can't have it both ways though!


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## Custard Cream (29 October 2011)

Neurological disorder according to twitter.


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## oldvic (29 October 2011)

Maesfen said:



			Have you ever thought that Emily did, indeed, know the horse well enough to be aware of his limitations and if OT is that brilliant, shouldn't he have known it too?  Of course then you have an owner grabbing for glory so he and OT were very mutually compatible regardless of Splash's well being which seems secondary to their greed for success.  Very sad for Splash.
		
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There is no way that Oli could have known how the horse would react (or not as was the case) at around 8 mins without trying - some horses keep digging in and trying while some go a little numb and can't adjust themselves for whatever reason. There is no pattern to it and you can only find out by trying.
It has been stated that ACM was within the time at Bramham 2009 which is correct. However, as far as I remember, the course that year was fairly galloping especially in the 2nd half and there was not too much that required the horse to shorten in the last part of the course. It was the 1st year that they went up round the old steeplechase course.


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## Festive_Felicitations (30 October 2011)

RIP Splash. My condolences to all his connections.

To everyone mking comments re-Splashes fitness I have often see from working with Endurances horses coming back from injury that they can appear 100% fit training, even under 'hard' training, but the true test isn't till you next put them under the pressure of a competition. So please stop jump to conclusions about the horses fitness.

As an 'outsider' ie non-UK inhabitant I admit I've never seen Oli ride in the flesh but from watching him online (FEI TV, Burghley TV etc) I have seen nothing that warrants the bashing he recieves on here. Every interview I have read in H&H or seen online H&C shows a very nice young man, who has a lot of ambition and it determined to make it but has never given the impression that he is singleminded enough to want to do so at the expense of his horse.

That is obviously just my opinion, but I really think everyone needs to take a deep breath and think hard before they join the next lynch mob.


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## lannerch (30 October 2011)

Bar one it two comments particularly at the beginning that are borderline I am relieved to say this thread is not oli bashing 
there is no lynch mob!

We discuss acm results with both oli and Emily we discuss why after such a major op he was run at oasby ( probably with veterinary advice and probably the owners not oli's decision ) hence his fitness level is questioned and it is mentioned why acm problems so severe enough to warrant PTs were not noticed schooling again, I would question the vets not oli!

Sorry I do not read most of the threads on here as oli bashing.
Oli is a highly talented rider who has made it to where he is from a working class background and for that has my full respect.


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## amyneave (30 October 2011)

oldvic said:



			It has been stated that ACM was within the time at Bramham 2009 which is correct. However, as far as I remember, the course that year was fairly galloping especially in the 2nd half and there was not too much that required the horse to shorten in the last part of the course. It was the 1st year that they went up round the old steeplechase course.
		
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I totally agree with this point. 
My point was I have often heard people say (not necessarily on here) that Oli got the ride on Splash because Emily's results were not very competitive with him. When I looked at the results of Splash and Emily I was a little surprised because from what I had heard I expected them to be worse. At Bramham for example in 2009 only 11 out of the 58 XC starters made the time, one been Emily and Splash.


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## Luci07 (30 October 2011)

Some very interesting points made here. I am not, personally, an OT fan having watched some of his XC performances and not enjoyed what I have seen. Too many OMG moments for me. I balance that this he is a professionial, have enjoyed huge success on a wide variety of different horses but I think it would be fair to say he could never be classed as a sympathetic rider. I also have to applaud him for having made his way so far and by himself. Still doens't mean he would ever be a rider choice for me. 

We won't know the whole story about Splash and I agree with an earlier post that, really, its not actually our business. I also, while having stated my personal view on OT do not believe that the death of this horse was due to choices he made.


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