# Is anyone a dog groomer?



## Oberon (11 October 2012)

If so - tell me all about it .


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## Taffyhorse (11 October 2012)

I think PuccinPony on here is. 

I'm considering a career change so I'd also be interested in hearing all about it :-]


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## PucciNPoni (11 October 2012)

Yep, there's a few of us

What do you want to know?

Training is usually about 20 to 30 days to get the basics, then you could be working with someone for a year or two before becoming reasonably proficient.  Many groomers are self employed, but personally that's highly overrated.  

It's a good job, but expect to be on your feet, standing, lifting and other hard graft dirty work.  

It's expensive to kit out your own place, expect to pay prob a minimum of £2k for table, clippers, dryers to get started.  

Pets at Home are hiring like mad, and I expect they'll also help pay for some of the training, and all of the equipment.  

Get a subscription to Total Grooming Magazine -- the second one is due to be out Monday or so.  If you need details, you can either google, look them up on FB or if you want I can send you details for the magazine.

I'm sure I left out lots of vital infor but today's a typical busy day - I had only four booked in and a surprise extra (a standard poodle which I had booked in for tomorrow) arrived today.  So fit it in between a shaved down lhasa and a Husky - and meanwhile my hoover broke today and I have nothing to hoover up all that husky hair with!  aaaacck!


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## s4sugar (11 October 2012)

As above training takes time & doesn't replace practice. 
Beware of the places offering a very expensive short course so you can set up on your own -rarely does a month go by without someone calling to see if I want to buy their "hardly used" equipment.
P@H may be a decent way in. At least you won't be thousands out of pocket if you decide it isn't for you.


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## Oberon (11 October 2012)

Just musing really.

Who does decent training?

Is it possible to earn a living from it?


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## PucciNPoni (11 October 2012)

Oberon said:



			Just musing really.

Who does decent training?

Is it possible to earn a living from it?
		
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I've been living off of grooming for ten years....

Decent training is Scotland - Scotgroom; Agnes Murphy is one of the top groomers in the world (International Groomer of the Year 2006).  Absolutely Animals (Heidi Anderton) in London is also very good.  Look North is another excellent reputation school.


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## GeeGeeboy (11 October 2012)

I am! Have worked in a salon for over two years. Went to do my training at Scotgroom and have just started my own mobile business. It's a great job but very hardwork and physical. There is decent money to be made if you're willing to work hard.


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## padderpaws (11 October 2012)

I am a fully qualified dog groomer.  Trained with Groomers in Shropshire.  Six week residential course.  Best £10,000. I ever spent. Got that back easily in the first year working part time. That was back in 2005 though so probably more to train to a decent standard now. Also that included all equipment you would need to start a pet grooming business.


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## Oberon (11 October 2012)

£10,000 

Is that a standard amount?


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## padderpaws (11 October 2012)

Don't know if it is a standard amount but that is how much it cost to hit the ground running so to speak.  I think that it would cost about that to start a professional dog grooming business up.  That would include training to City and Guilds standard, all professional good equipment (not cheap) and I am not a mobile groomer.  I would imagine that it would cost a whole lot more if you have to buy a purpose built van and maintain it. BUT once you are trained and have a good reliable client base you can easily earn a decent living.


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## PucciNPoni (12 October 2012)

The initial 10K outlay for just a course is pretty high, but as Padderpaws is saying they got equipment (minimumm outlay on that would run about £2k), six weeks of training and what not - it sounds about right.

I think Scotgroom for a month was about £2k way back then.  I have since gone for loads of top of training days, seminars, master classes, competitions (national and international) which all add to the learning experience.  I couldn't imagine what I've spent over the years on all the extra training.  The difference between someone who does those training dates and someone who doesn't will sometimes be very obvious.  Don't get me wrong, there are some extremely talented groomers who just quietly do away on their own, but most of us aren't that naturally gifted and do benefit from the extras.

I went residential - ten years ago - and it was cheap then - but it was still I think £50 / week (so another couple of hundred)

Then my equipemnt alone was £2-3k - and that was the bare minimum!

then the cost to kit out my salon........

by the time I was all in it cost me in excess of £30k to get up and running!!!

Then to do the C&G exams you're talking a bit more because you're needing to travel, take days off for mock exams and brushing up technique, the exam fees, and in my case, in order to maintain the dogs in proper length and quality of coat I groomed them FOC on a weekly or monthly basis (again, it costs to do this).

THEN, the amount you earn will vary greatly with the speed in which you can do quality work.  A groomer will take at least a couple of years to get up to speed where they are comfortably and consistently doing enough dogs to a good standard in a quantity where they're making money.  Most newbies straight out of school can manage no more than 2 to 4 dogs in an 8 hour working day.  After the first year you might see them up this by 1 or 2.

Ten years on, I can do up to 8 dogs per day at a good standard, but it knackers me....especially if I'm working in my shop alone where I've got the door tod deal with, the phone to answer, stupid things like the hoover breaking down!  These are full scissor and breed profile trims rather than fast easy shave offs.  And sometimes "fast easy shave offs" end up being anything but - the dog might be really matted, flea infested, the ears really thick with waxy hair, the dog might be an alligator in fur.  There are so many variables in a single day which can make or break it.

 I love my job - but I don't recommend it for the faint of heart!


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## PucciNPoni (12 October 2012)

....meanwhile I have an uncle in the US who has been grooming for over 30 years.  No formal qualifications (though he was trained up in the show world).  He grooms something like 19 dogs per day, on his own. He works 4 days a week (long days though) and makes a VERY good living.  The 19 dogs per day he does come every week -- it is a very different culture there where the price for grooming tends to be higher and they come more often.  

Some top groomers can make six figure salaries.  I know of one, Jay Scruggs - who is mobile. (I don't know how much he makes)  He's a top international competitor, judge, speaker - and he still runs his mobile business.  However the demand for him is so great that he has a year long wait list for new clients.  Someone apparently offered to give him $500 to get to the top of his wait list - and now that's a regular thing (or so the story goes).


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## Skippys Mum (12 October 2012)

I make a very (very) good living as a self employed dog groomer .  I wouldnt do this job if I was working for anyone else as its dirty, backbreaking at times and can be quite heavy going.

I have staff now though who do the dirty, backbreaking, heavy going bits of it now .  I work 5 days a week but not really full time hours.  Its pretty exhausting and by 4pm I am knackered.  At certain times of year I work 7 days a week but its well worth it.  

I am a pet groomer.  I dont do fancy clips, I dont do show dogs.  I can do them but I choose not to (personally, I feel show dogs are a league apart.  Every breed will have such differing specs that only someone _showing_ that breed will know all about so I stick to pet dogs).  I am trained to C&G level although I have never sat the exams (when I did my training you had to go to England to sit the exams and I wasnt in a position to travel with dogs I could use for the exams).  I have to say that very very few groomers in my area (West of Scotland) are C&G qualified.  Mind you, half of them are barely trained *bangs head off desk*.

I got into it by clipping horses - then getting asked if I could run the clippers over the odd dog - then it was logical to go for training and set up.  The first year was scary but then it took off.  I dont advertise and my clients are all word of mouth.  

Mind you, I've had to take Arnies shoes off as obviously I dont earn enough for that


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## PucciNPoni (12 October 2012)

Skippy's mum -you can now sit your exams in a few locations in Scotland.  I know they do the theory in Galashiels as well as Carluke.  I did my theory in Carluke and two of my practical modules at Scotgroom too.  Agnes has been holding study/training dates for exam preparation again this year.


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## Oberon (12 October 2012)

Skippys Mum said:



			Mind you, I've had to take Arnies shoes off as obviously I dont earn enough for that 

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I'm a nurse, so earn a fair wage from that. I wouldn't want to drop in wage.....

Having looked into it, it's possible for me to do some training and pick up equipment along the way.

I'd love to work for myself, but I'm not business savvy 

I'm a bit fed up with paying dog groomers who are either unreliable, half hearted or unable to deal with large dogs.

The final straw has come when I went for my monthly appointment with the professional dog groomer I use......
She was busy, so her helper was in charge of washing the dogs first. This helper was obviously not a dog person and frightened. She insisted I stay with my dog as she was scared and wouldn't go near his face......I had to wash it for her. I wouldn't mind - but you can easily read Salem's body language and it was all submissive.

She half drowned the little fru fru doggie before mine while calling it 'stupid' .

And I pay £40 for this 

I could do better - plus specialise in large dogs....which seems to be a gap in the market here


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## PucciNPoni (12 October 2012)

Just out of curiosity Oberon, what breed of dog do you have?

There is a gap in the market for an obvious reason.  Okay, so your groomer's bather sounded horrible if they behaved the way you said.  But IMO, if the groomer was too busy, and left a frightened bather in charge, something is happening here - and that is the very fact that the groomer in question is charging WAY too little! They've overbooked themselves and had to pass the buck so to speak.

Large dogs are absolutely back breaking.  They often take the space of 2 or 3 smaller more profitable breeds of dog...and often require more than one person to handle it to lift it correctly and to dry it quickly so the dog isn't standing on the table for hours on end.

 If I booked a newfoundland in, I would be required to charge upwards of £100 because THAT's how much I'd need to take for it in order to keep profitable.  Then you get "sorry, that's too dear!" from the cheapskates who just don't understand the time and effort it takes to do that dog correctly.  So then the groomers, for lack of wanting to turn away the business, undercharge what it should be, and pass the job on to the lower paid bather/brusher.

So rather than book these big beasties in, I specialise in smaller breeds that I don't have to rely on a second helper for lifting/efficiency purposes.

Yes, there IS a gap in the market - but I would think really carefully about how you'd go about dealing with the biggies.  I know some groomers who do specialise in them and love doing them.  But things you'd have to consider when doing them

a - time to groom
b - time to clean up
c - time spent at chiro/physio
d - cost of special equipment (large bath/large table/suitable flooring cos when a big dog shakes EVERYTHING in the shop is soaked!) etc
e - when you've booked a 3 hour block just for one dog, what you will do when the owner no-shows (so do you collect the fee in advance of booking or take a deposit?)



Yesterday I groomed a husky - it was it's first visit in to my shop.  I got wetter than the dog did in the bath - in fact despite my protective clothing I was soaked to the knickers every time she shook herself .  After that she was absolutely good as gold.  In fact she was lovely to deal with.  However, my hoover died so I had to try to sweep husky hair off every surface in the shop...and husky hair doesn't sweep so well!!  I spent 2 hours on the dog in total by the time I'd bathed, dried, deshedded the undercoat, nails and trimmed the pads.  While she was passive drying in the drying cabinet (which she rather enjoyed) I swept and swept and swept a bit more.  I charged £40 for that -- and that's not a "big dog".


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## Oberon (12 October 2012)

Salem is a 'Utonagan' (husky/mal/GSD mongrel). I get him done every month so he isn't such a 'management issue' with his coat.

This groomer states POA for big dogs, so £40 must be her price for a dog like him.

I chose her specifically as her website indicated she was happy to accommodate big/aggressive dogs (not that he is aggressive ), we schedule each month for when she has a helper in (although I've never seen THIS one before) and I always help to get him in the bath before I leave him.....

I'm just disgruntled at paying for a professional and getting the incapable helper .


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## padderpaws (12 October 2012)

Oberon, I may be able to shed some light on groomers who are unable or unwilling to do large dogs and it is this.  They are not cost effective.  I myself do not do large dogs for this reason.  I am able to but I choose not to.  I can earn £30. for 45 mins work on a small dog (westie for eg) but a large dog would take very much longer and the owner would not usually want to pay me in excess of £60. for two hours work.  

I always say that I love big dogs but don't have the room as it sounds better than saying "sorry but your dog is not cost effective"


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## Oberon (12 October 2012)

I certainly don't earn £45 an hour as a nurse .


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## Skippys Mum (13 October 2012)

I think I may move my shop!!  I only take £26 for a westie! 

I'm another one who doesnt do big dogs as a rule.  My bath is at waist height and I dont want to risk either my back or the dogs back by trying to lift them in.  I dont let the owners stay though as I have found dogs behave far better when their mums and dads arent around (bit like kids).  I do the odd big dog as an exception but I am very strict about what I'll do.  Regulars can have a bath and a brush out but the folk who want to bring their Newfie in once a year, matted to the skin and think I would be grateful if they decided to pay me £20 for it I chase.  I dont need it and I dont want that sort of work.  As the others have said, the money is in the smaller dogs.  You get endless comments about how its costing more than their hairdos to get the dog done.  

I also have a dematting policy.  If its matted solid it gets shaved.  If they dont want it shaved they can take it elsewhere.  I do some dematting but if its all over solid then I dont want to know.  It can really hurt a dog doing full body dematting so I am not interested.  Its a lot easier to be strict about this when you have a full diary though.

Dogs will come in with a strip of hair down the middle of their back brushed and you will get told that it gets brushed every day.  Yeah, what bit??  They come in bone dry on a pouring wet day and the owners are surprised that they pee or crap the floor.  Really, what surprised you about the fact that your poor dog clearly hasnt been out this morning??

*bangs head again*

There is good money to be made though.  Its something you can start off part time with and grow as it grows.


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## PucciNPoni (13 October 2012)

Oberon said:



			I certainly don't earn £45 an hour as a nurse .
		
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Whoa, back the truck up! 

Just because it has a price tag of £45 per hour does NOT mean that's what the groomer earned!

By the time rent, rates, water, elec, taxes, insurance, shampoo, maintenance on equipment, etc etc etc, the amount that the groomer might take HOME from all that is probably far less than half of that.  

I had one guy come in to my shop, who I charge about £70 for his two small dogs to be groomed.  He asked me how many dogs I groom in a day, I said about 5 or 6.  He did the math (35 x 6) and immediately got this illusion that I'm rolling in it because I earn over £200 a day.  However, my overheads are in excess of £2000 a month, before I earn a penny.


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## PucciNPoni (13 October 2012)

Skippys Mum said:



			I think I may move my shop!!  I only take £26 for a westie! 

I'm another one who doesnt do big dogs as a rule.  My bath is at waist height and I dont want to risk either my back or the dogs back by trying to lift them in.  I dont let the owners stay though as I have found dogs behave far better when their mums and dads arent around (bit like kids).  I do the odd big dog as an exception but I am very strict about what I'll do.  Regulars can have a bath and a brush out but the folk who want to bring their Newfie in once a year, matted to the skin and think I would be grateful if they decided to pay me £20 for it I chase.  I dont need it and I dont want that sort of work.  As the others have said, the money is in the smaller dogs.  You get endless comments about how its costing more than their hairdos to get the dog done.  

I also have a dematting policy.  If its matted solid it gets shaved.  If they dont want it shaved they can take it elsewhere.  I do some dematting but if its all over solid then I dont want to know.  It can really hurt a dog doing full body dematting so I am not interested.  Its a lot easier to be strict about this when you have a full diary though.

Dogs will come in with a strip of hair down the middle of their back brushed and you will get told that it gets brushed every day.  Yeah, what bit??  They come in bone dry on a pouring wet day and the owners are surprised that they pee or crap the floor.  Really, what surprised you about the fact that your poor dog clearly hasnt been out this morning??

*bangs head again*

There is good money to be made though.  Its something you can start off part time with and grow as it grows.
		
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I think I love you! LOL


PS, I charge $45 for a westie.  I'm giving up my shop the end of next month - you want my pitch?


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## PucciNPoni (13 October 2012)

Errr, make that £45 (silly keyboard, leaving the $ and £ next to eachother!)


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## Skippys Mum (13 October 2012)

Good God, I'd get run out of town if I tried to charge £45 for a westie.  I am very jealous .  Mind you, my overheads are not so much.

I do on average 9 dogs a day but I always have someone in to bath/dry for me.  I hate doing the bathing myself these days .  There has to be some advantages to being the boss


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## PucciNPoni (13 October 2012)

Skippys Mum said:



			Good God, I'd get run out of town if I tried to charge £45 for a westie.  I am very jealous .  Mind you, my overheads are not so much.

I do on average 9 dogs a day but I always have someone in to bath/dry for me.  I hate doing the bathing myself these days .  There has to be some advantages to being the boss 

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My advanatge to being the boss is not having to be a boss 

I'll stick to doing 5 or 6 a day on my ownsome and not have to worry whether a bather is going to turn up or call in sick....or hungover as I used to get a lot of!


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## GeeGeeboy (13 October 2012)

Loving this thread. I think a lot of owners are very ignorant of how much work and time goes into a full groom, including bathing and drying, nails, ear cleaning etc and they actually get very good value for money. We had a client drop off a very hairy , dirty Cocker Spaniel once and as she was leaving she called out "I'll be back in half an hour!" eh , more like two and a half hours for a hairy beast like that!


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## PucciNPoni (14 October 2012)

GeeGeeboy said:



			Loving this thread. I think a lot of owners are very ignorant of how much work and time goes into a full groom, including bathing and drying, nails, ear cleaning etc and they actually get very good value for money. We had a client drop off a very hairy , dirty Cocker Spaniel once and as she was leaving she called out "I'll be back in half an hour!" eh , more like two and a half hours for a hairy beast like that!
		
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Years ago as part of a grooming forum gag, which was then published in a grooming magazine, and then subsequently copied and made in to a poster by a shampoo manufacturer...we did a list of "101 reasons why dog grooming costs more than getting your own hair cut".  

There were things on there like 
- if you are unwell, your hairdresser won't take your temperature or take you to the doctor
- if you peed on the floor of the shop, you would probably be arrested
- if you bit your hairdresser, you would definitely be arrested!
- anal glands, your hairdresser probably doesn't know what they are (or in fact want to know)
- your hairdresser's blow dryer costs about £20, a groomer's cost about £400

....and so on.


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## Faithkat (14 October 2012)

Reading all your replies has been something of a revelation.  I was a dog groomer for 25 years but never, ever was I able to make a full-time living out of it.  My original plan, after training, was to set up my own "shop" but had to do it from home in an adapted spare bedroom as the income would have barely been enough to cover the expenses of the premises and equipment.  However, I do firmly believe that it depends where you are as to whether or not you can make a living at it.  I trained in Manchester and the cost of living was considerably lower than where I am (eastern of the New Forest) so people had much more disposable income and were, therefore, happier to pay the price of having the dog groomed.  Down here which was/is much more expensive, people do not have such a large disposable income and as a consequence are much more careful.  I reckon it took me about 3 years to recoup the initial outlay for equipment - don't forget that when you are starting out you won't have any clients and will need to spend money on advertising and that customers will only dribble in at the beginning.  Unless they are unhappy with their current groomer they won't be looking around for a new one.  In the end I found that word of mouth was my best way of getting customers and I had ones who stayed with me for years.  When I was doing it, there weren't many dog groomers in the area (I think I was only one of three) and I ended up with permanent client base which numbered somewhere around 250.  The main problem I always found was that while people would cheerfully cough up extraordinary sums of money for their own cut and blow dry (in and out of hairdressers in 45 minutes), they expected to pay considerably less to have their dog done which took a minimum of 2 hours, consequently the amount earned in a day/week was either enough to pay for premises OR live on but most certainly not both.

I was stunned to read that someone who replied here reckons they can do a Westie in 45 minutes!  Eh???????  I certainly could not bath, dry, clip/strip and scissor a Westie in 45 minutes, it used to take me around 2 hours!  
I have recently been asked to blow the cobwebs off my scissors to do a Bichon for my son's friend.  They took it to a local salon who returned it in less than half an hour obviously not bathed and looking as though it had a run-in with a Flymo  . . . . .


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## PucciNPoni (14 October 2012)

Faithcat - I'm not quite sure how to word this without sounding awkward...but one thing I've learned about grooming for profit and speed/efficiency is that until you've HAD to do it, you don't know that you CAN.

When I first started grooming from my shop, I was happy to bumble along doing 3/4 dogs a day.  But I wasn't really making much money (like *any* because it was all going back in to the business) - I was taking a long time to do those three or four because I was new and still a bit cautious.  However, I had to PUSH myself in order to cover the expenses and really work at it to improve my speed (and still be careful).  I learned there were ways to reduce the time without cutting corners.  I started to multi-task and do other time saving techniques...and then you get hte confidence of KNOWING your trims inside and out (which you will cetainly have had with 25 years of experience).  But with the advent of grooming forums, magazines and seminars, you learn new ways, about new equipment and so on - which helps to no end.  

Many at home groomers who are isolated a bit just don't get that information unless they actively seek it out.

Nowadays you do get a lot of cowboy groomers who just do some quick training and don't get the ins and outs of conformation, health issues, styling to breed standard - some don't get any training at all in fact!  

A favorite saying of mine (that I learned on a grooming forum in fact)

A good groom is never cheap.....a cheap groom is never good

People will try cheaper groomers because they're cheaper, but will nearly almost always go back to the better groomer because of the value that they are in fact getting.  Some groomers still have the idea that people won't go to a higher priced groomer, but I can assure you that they do.


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## Skippys Mum (14 October 2012)

Faithkat, I am one of the cheaper groomers (although after reading this thread I may just relocate  ) but I am a good groomer.  People travel from far and wide to get to me.  I am based in the West of Scotland but I have clients travel from as far as Dunfermline (East of Scotland), Aviemore (up further north) and even one from Birmingham.  Tbh, they are not coming to me to save a fiver (I'm still always stunned because I only class myself as a pet groomer not a fancy posh "proper" groomer), so its not just about cost.

Things have changed recently though.  Its now fashionable to have your dog groomed.  Its the done thing.  As PnP says though, you fair speed up once you get under pressure 

Not including bathing and drying I allow an average of half an hour to clip a dog.  Thats assuming the dog has been brushed out for me and is ready to clip.  I bring the dogs into my shop for approx 3 hours and we work as a bit of a conveyor belt system, bathing, drying and brushing out and then finally to me to clip.  It works well and allows a bit of an overlap if one takes a bit longer or if someone is running late.  Working like this I can do 6 or 7 dogs a day on my own but I usually do about 9 with a bather.  I can do a lot more than that in a day with assistants but I am basically a lazy cow so thats way more than enough and makes me a very good living  (I am the main wage earner and earn far more than my hubby does yet he has to work much longer hours).  Sadly though, I am a spendthrift and cant keep a fiver in my pocket without racing out to spend it so I am still always skint *blush*


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## PucciNPoni (14 October 2012)

Skippys Mum said:



			Faithkat, I am one of the cheaper groomers (although after reading this thread I may just relocate  ) but I am a good groomer.  People travel from far and wide to get to me.  I am based in the West of Scotland but I have clients travel from as far as Dunfermline (East of Scotland), Aviemore (up further north) and even one from Birmingham.  Tbh, they are not coming to me to save a fiver (I'm still always stunned because I only class myself as a pet groomer not a fancy posh "proper" groomer), so its not just about cost.
*
		
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Lordy no, they won't spend £20 in fuel to save a fiver! 

People DO travel to go to a groomer they like and trust.  We get the same (had one coming from Cornwall...but have since relocated to closer -- and a few coming from Dundee...many coming over the bridge from Fife too)

Sometimes it's not even JUST about the groom but the personality of the groomer and whether or not they feel their dog is in good hands.  There's lots of reasons why a person chooses a groomer.


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## Faithkat (15 October 2012)

PucciNPoni said:



			Faithcat - I'm not quite sure how to word this without sounding awkward...but one thing I've learned about grooming for profit and speed/efficiency is that until you've HAD to do it, you don't know that you CAN.

When I first started grooming from my shop, I was happy to bumble along doing 3/4 dogs a day.  But I wasn't really making much money (like *any* because it was all going back in to the business) - I was taking a long time to do those three or four because I was new and still a bit cautious.  However, I had to PUSH myself in order to cover the expenses and really work at it to improve my speed (and still be careful).  I learned there were ways to reduce the time without cutting corners.  I started to multi-task and do other time saving techniques...and then you get hte confidence of KNOWING your trims inside and out (which you will cetainly have had with 25 years of experience).  But with the advent of grooming forums, magazines and seminars, you learn new ways, about new equipment and so on - which helps to no end.  

Many at home groomers who are isolated a bit just don't get that information unless they actively seek it out.

Nowadays you do get a lot of cowboy groomers who just do some quick training and don't get the ins and outs of conformation, health issues, styling to breed standard - some don't get any training at all in fact!  

A favorite saying of mine (that I learned on a grooming forum in fact)

A good groom is never cheap.....a cheap groom is never good

People will try cheaper groomers because they're cheaper, but will nearly almost always go back to the better groomer because of the value that they are in fact getting.  Some groomers still have the idea that people won't go to a higher priced groomer, but I can assure you that they do.
		
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After husband #2 walked out on me I DID have to groom as my "living".  I used to work 12-15 hour days doing around 6 dogs a day 6 days a week but the amount of money people were prepared to pay did not allow a living that would pay the mortgage and bills and leave enough to live on (mortgage rates in those days were around 12%, not like nowadays).  One of my clients was a standard poodle which the owners brought 4 times a year (that was as frequent as they deemed necessary).  The first time she came I thought she was chocolate brown  . . . .  nope, she was pale apricot!  She used to take me 5 hours and the most I could get out them was £25  . . . . . .   Believe me, I never took a minute longer than I needed to.  I think out of the 25 years of grooming there were only ever about half a dozen dogs that I loved and would happily have kept!!!!!

I agree with your comment about cheap groomers though and I am continually shocked at the quality (or lack of it) of some groomers.  I was spurred on to learn grooming after my boss brought her standard poodle into the office after collecting him from his groomer.  At the time I was showing CKCS and was used to a high level of grooming in the show ring.  I was horrified at the state of her dog and thought "I can do better than that" and went off to learn grooming.  Mind you, coming from a showing background, it was quite a revelation to see the state that people let their dogs get into.  If they can't be bothered to groom it, why on earth don't they buy whippets/greyhounds/labradors etc?!!!!!


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## Skippys Mum (15 October 2012)

Faithkat, I started grooming after my first husband died so I was desperately needing it to work.

As for the likes of standard poodles - all I will do is a basic lamb trim and thats assuming they come in every 6 weeks.  If they dont, then fine, they can go elsewhere.  It took me a long time to toughen up enough to say this and mean it though.  Its a whole lot easier to have firm principles when your diary is full.  The first couple of years I was in business I would come home at night in tears, too knackered to even eat.  Now I am much tougher and if the dog is a mess, the only thing I will do is a full shave off.  Funnily enough, once you are adamant thats what you will do, I find people either come in regularly or accept a shave off with no issue.


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## PucciNPoni (15 October 2012)

Faithkat said:



			).  The first time she came I thought she was chocolate brown  . . . .  nope, she was pale apricot!  She used to take me 5 hours and the most I could get out them was £25  . . . . . .   QUOTE]

Well, without knowing how long ago that was, I can imagine that it still was below NMW that you actually earned for that job.  You couldn't have covered your overheads with that small fee for such a big job.  That would be most of a day's takings for such a silly low amount - defintely not the way to earn a living - more like killing yourself!

If you ever do come back to the business, I do hope you'll have a closer look at your fee structure so that you don't fall in to that trap again.  PM me if you want  I can send you a profitability formula.
		
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## padderpaws (15 October 2012)

Faithkat that would be me that said I can do a westie in 45 min. I can bath, blow dry, clip, and scissor a non matted well behaved westie in that time and make and put a bow on its collar.  

The training and equipment must have changed a lot from 25 years ago.  Not all of my westies are done in 45min some take 60 min.  I am very choosy as to what dogs i groom.  I only do pet dogs, I don't hand strip or do big dogs because neither are cost effective.  I do not spend hours de matting either.  I make a very nice living thank you.  I have set my stall out for my requirements and it works very nicely.  I am a professional, qualified pet dog groomer who grooms small pet dogs to high standard.  The training I received was not just dog grooming it was also how to run a successful pet dog grooming business.


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## PucciNPoni (16 October 2012)

Skippys Mum said:



			Faithkat, I started grooming after my first husband died so I was desperately needing it to work.

As for the likes of standard poodles - all I will do is a basic lamb trim and thats assuming they come in every 6 weeks.  If they dont, then fine, they can go elsewhere.  It took me a long time to toughen up enough to say this and mean it though.  Its a whole lot easier to have firm principles when your diary is full.  The first couple of years I was in business I would come home at night in tears, too knackered to even eat.  Now I am much tougher and if the dog is a mess, the only thing I will do is a full shave off.  Funnily enough, once you are adamant thats what you will do, I find people either come in regularly or accept a shave off with no issue.
		
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Absolutely hit the nail on the head.  If you continuously allow clients to dictate what you'll do, when you'll do it, how you'll do it and how much you'll charge for it, you will always be chasing your ar$e and never getting anywhere but deeper in the poo.  I see it all the time - people are so afraid of losing  few clients that they just turn in to yes-men and women.  Really if they want to be respected in their chosen field, they be firm but fair with their approach.  Saying NO is a good thing at times.  

Burnout rate on groomers is pretty high.  It's physically and mentally demanding.  We have to understand dog psychology and goodness knows sometimes we need to be human psychologists as well!  We get people who try to emotionally blackmail us over a dog's haircut!

The main thing to remember is that YOU have responsibility for the dog that's in front of you WHEN that dog is in front of you.  You can't and should not attempt to undo months of neglect in a few short hours.  You can't and should not attempt to demat and untangle a severely matted coat JUST to please an owner at risk of the dog's mental and physical wellbeing.  The AWA protects animals and US alike in that regard.


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## CAYLA (16 October 2012)

Lol at this post, (all to familair)  I burned out (well ill health) at the time did not help the old stress levels, I was a bit younger and more willing to please and now I please myself, people come to be to get there nasty little/big nipper groomed or people who have followed me, the few dogs I do now know better than to demand anything, they hand the dog over and get it back (simples) 
I remember I was grooming at the vets once (I used to do it at the vets) and one woman called 3 times whilst I was grooming her westi to say the following "can you tell her to give it a cauliflower head"... "can you tell her to leave his tail extra bushy and on the third call...I said to the receptioist "tell her to come get the damned dog or stop calling", she never rang back and he was cut to my liking and not hers and yet he came back time again.
So true that people don't appreciate how back breaking and knackerizing it is


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## Oberon (16 October 2012)

I have made some enquiries and got some ideas about training from the suggested places.

I need to start saving 

I think mobile grooming would suit me. 

I like being out and about


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## PucciNPoni (16 October 2012)

That's excellent Oberon.  I would also highly suggest joining some of the grooming forums  - PM me if you would like the name of a few?  Best of luck


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## GeeGeeboy (16 October 2012)

An entire groom and bath in 45 mins? Wow! That is impressive!


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## PucciNPoni (16 October 2012)

GeeGeeboy said:



			An entire groom and bath in 45 mins? Wow! That is impressive!
		
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45 minutes seems inconceivable especially when you're newer, but it's totally do-able.  I remember being surprised one day when my time went under two hours, and then again when it went under one hour.  You find little ways to save time, get more confident and suddenly it takes no time at all. 

I do one extremely thick coated, massive lhasa in a shave down.  Tail is always pretty thick and has a few mats.  By the time I've washed, blasted, dried, nails, ears, clipped and finished it's only taken 40 odd minutes to complete.  So a westie in a reasonably good coat - totally do-able


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## GeeGeeboy (16 October 2012)

Yeah, when you put it like that Puccinponi it does sound do-able. I'm very slow but have just started so it's understandable. Also think I'm really rubbish too but that's another story! What's your usual routine if you don't mind me asking? Do you rough clip then bath then finish or just bath straight away?


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## PucciNPoni (17 October 2012)

Unless a dog is very matted and heavy coated (or I have to wait for the bath) I nearly never ever pre clip.  I prefer to wash and dry the coat before ever touching it with my blades (saves the blades to only work on clean, but also the finish is better, and there is no real time saving by pre clipping).  It is different if it's a cocker, for example, that's not been clipped for a year - those coats can take ages to dry so stripping it all off first does help.  But for normal grooming, I always always always bath first.  Knots brush out easier if the coat is absolutely squeaky clean and then sprayed with a detangling spray.

Literally it takes me less than ten minutes to bath and blast a smaller dog (cocker in full feathers, lhasa with 8 week teddy growth, poodle in lamb trim), and then on the drying table for usually about 20 minutes.  The rest is spent trimming.  I can't trim and style all dogs in 20 minutes or less, but many I can.  Quick shave off dogs we're about 5 minutes bath/blasting.  Twenty minutes max drying and then another 15=20 or so clipping and nails/ears.

What DOES slow me down are things like the door / phone going and having to down tools every time someone calls in or comes in.  

I've got quite a lot on coming up between now and December, but next article I'm doing for the magazine will be on speed/efficiency - how to speed up without cutting corners.


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## Skippys Mum (17 October 2012)

Oberon said:



			I have made some enquiries and got some ideas about training from the suggested places.

I need to start saving 

I think mobile grooming would suit me. 

I like being out and about 

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Oberon, come up to me for a holiday and I'll give you a "basic starter/make sure you like it before you spend money on it" visit (and you get to meet Arnie - oh and Brightbay and Jackson ).  My only qualm with mobile is that you waste time travelling and setting up for the next dog.  If you like being out and about try collections instead.  You can drive around and pick up 2 or 3 dogs, do them then drive them home

Today was Chow Day at my shop.  3 of them.  I am still spitting out Chow fluff


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## PucciNPoni (18 October 2012)

Skippy's Mum is right about the time spent travelling, however if done correctly it can still be pretty profitable.  One major downside is that if you arrive to someone's door and they're not there to hand over the dog, not only are you out the space time for the groom, but also the travel time and expense it took to get there.  Most mobiles will only manage four visits a day, unless they can very carfully plan which areas to go to and keep them geographically close - which sounds obvious.  But sometimes it easier to herd kittens than it is to organise stuff like that.  Thus the price of mobile grooming needs to be even higher than salon grooming...and well it should be as it is considered more of a luxury to have someone come to you rather than the other way round.

Mobile woudln't be for me (but then neither would collection/delivery).  Those that do it seem to love it.  

Another thing to consider re mobile - when the vehicle breaks down or needs to go in for maintenance, you're off work.  If the weather is freezing, you have more concerns as the system in the unit can freeze easier (unless you have a heated garage to store your van).  You can have these issues in a salon (to a degree) but it always sounds to me -- judging from the comments that mobile groomers make in the winter - that it's a greater hardship and takes a bit of planning.


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## GeeGeeboy (20 October 2012)

What magazine will your speed/efficiency article be in Puccinponi?


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## PucciNPoni (20 October 2012)

Geegeeboy - It'll be in Total Grooming Magazine.  It'll be the December issue as I'm still writing in...it's a free magazine that comes out ever 2 months (2nd issue just went out last week -but if you go to the website, you can probably still get a copy).


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## GeeGeeboy (20 October 2012)

Cool, thankyou.


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## s4sugar (28 October 2015)

Plenty of places selling training courses, even some online ones but unfortunately many are not providing a sound basis for a long-term business and are unrealistic in the equipment needed.
I too get regular calls offering nearly new equipment.

City & Guilds is pet grooming. Show grooming is different.


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