# Pentathlon rant and reporters views....



## appaloosacaz (12 August 2012)

Is anyone else incredibly angry about firstly, the Pentathlon, and second how the world makes out its horses faults? http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs...ck-goes-very-very-wrong-korean-154540296.html


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## Flame_ (12 August 2012)

Yes, instead of raving about the incompetence of many of the pentathletes, the poor horses get criticized. The horses all went through vigorous testing and proved they could do the job beforehand with a suitable pilot on board, this pretty much proves the faults lie with the riders. I'm not saying horses can't be tricky and unpredictable, but they don't just chuck themselves over backwards for no reason.


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## appaloosacaz (12 August 2012)

Its true, how did any of them get into the Olympics, not sure how their process works :/


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## mle22 (12 August 2012)

Well I think the horse that went over backwards, although ultimately pilled over by its rider, still behaved badly from the beginning with its rearing and wasn't a suitable horse. Neither was the big strong grey today. It was lucky that a particularly competent rider got that horse. A less able rider would have had major problems.


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## appaloosacaz (13 August 2012)

However the horse started rearing in the first place because of the rider not letting the horse move his head in the slightest, Poor horse, when he started the round, tight reins and when the horse started rearing he clung on, and didn't allow with his hands. As for the horses being unsuitable... the horses had to be vigorously tested out of hundreds to find ones which were suitable for the job, obviously horses are unpredictable, so even the best can misbehave. However these horses are used to people who can ride to a high standard, so obviously it was a shock having some of these riders on them...


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## MerrySherryRider (13 August 2012)

Whatever criteria is used for ensuring the athletes can actually ride is not working. The horse's were fine, they just needed to know the person pointing them at jumps wasn't going to cause them an injury.
 Intelligence of horses.   1.
 Intelligence of athletes. 0


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## appaloosacaz (13 August 2012)

Very valid point  agree 100%


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## Mike007 (14 August 2012)

The horse that reared and went over backwards should never have been there. It is all very well saying that these horses were test jumped but there is a world of difference betwean a rider that the horse trusts and is used to,popping it round a course,and a complete stranger getting on in a high stress environment regardless of how good a rider they are. And as for the rider hanging on too tight. The rider knows that this horse has already put its previous rider out of the competition, he is in the start box  and the clock is running, trying to control a complete git . It goes up and he falls backward pulling the horse high and over.I have seen plenty of quite good riders completely phased by a rearing horse,if you have never experienced it before it can be terrifying. I have also seen quite a few haveing a complete nightmare in the start box at BE.A seasoned competition rider might have been able to sort things out ,but a young Pentathlete had no chance.I thought he was incredibly brave.


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## appaloosacaz (14 August 2012)

Didn't think he was brave, didn't think most of the riders had a basic knowledge of riding and horses. Good for the horse, a lot of horses could've behaved a lot worse to a rider like that.


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## Mondy (15 August 2012)

Yes, I found it quite disturbing to hear the speaker confidently declare that the horse was playing around, taking advantage of an inexperienced rider, etc. It seemed to me that the horses objected to hard hands pulling on the serious metalware in their mouths, being bumped in the back and kicked in the side; they were confused by opposing signals to go forward and stop, and expected to jump with a rider who put them both in danger. 
Cases like this makes me wonder whether human beings could be the most insensitive, stupid creatures around. ;-)


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## Wizzkid (15 August 2012)

I do think they should change it to dressage. Wasn't nice to watch, even non horsey people at work have asked me about it and wondered why it looked so awful.

Pretty much all the horses selected i thought were amazing, i think it just showed up that they need to put more hours into the riding phase.


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## wench (15 August 2012)

As I have said in NL... if your all that amazing at horse riding... we will see you in Rio!


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## Hedwards (15 August 2012)

While I dont envy the competitors, I certainly wouldnt fancy a 20 minute warm up with 5 warm up fences before a round of SJ at 1.20m. However, as soon as the Korean rider in the link came into the arena i said to myself - I hope he lengthens those reins... and then the inevitable happened, he was incredibly lucky nothing serious happened to him or the horse. 

I feel very uncomfortable about the level of experience in the MP - and wish there was some more levels of qualification in the riding stages, as it seems if you're strong enough to sit on the horse and hold on, anything goes...


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## Honeylight (15 August 2012)

Another problem is that if you get a horse that has been knocked about or gee-ed up in the first round your chances of success are reduced; which penalises the leaders of the competition who go in the second batch. A fresh horse for each rider would be fairer.
I agree though a dressage test would be better. Like to see them doing shoulder-ins & half passes!


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## TrasaM (15 August 2012)

Given what the modern pentathlon is meant to reflect I also think that dressage would be a better option.


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## HashRouge (15 August 2012)

wench said:



			As I have said in NL... if your all that amazing at horse riding... we will see you in Rio!
		
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It really annoys me when people say things like this.....I *know* I'm not that amazing, which is why I would never enter an Olympic pentathlon. If I did want to become a pentathlete, I would put some serious work into my riding - with a particular focus on riding strange horses and jumping. In fact, I remember the commentators noting that one of the female pentathletes had previously found the riding phase very difficult, so she had gone away and put a lot of work into it, and lo and behold she did a nice, competent round on Sunday. Not perfect, but she gave the horse a nice ride and got a good result at the end of it. That's what I want to see - people who've obviously made an effort to improve their riding! On the other hand, there was a French competitor who did a dreadful round on Sunday and the commentators mentioned that she too had always had trouble with the riding phase....yet unlike the other woman she obviously hadn't put that much effort into improving, given that she held her horse with such a vice-like grip it was a wonder he could leave the ground, and had such poor balance that every time he jumped she was completely left behind and ended up socking the horse in the mouth. How the horse put up with that, I have no idea! So the point is not that we expect all the riders to be amazing, just that we expect them all to appear to have put some effort into achieving a decent standard. I'm not a good jumper, and if I wanted to do more, I would start with small jumps and build up slowly, not try jumps that are far beyond my ability and hope for the best! Surely the point of the modern pentathlon is that you have to be a reasonable rider, because getting on a strange horse and jumping a complicated course is not for novices, yet some of the competitors looked like they'd only been riding for about 6 months


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## Flame_ (15 August 2012)

wench said:



			As I have said in NL... if your all that amazing at horse riding... we will see you in Rio!
		
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Oh give over. I know full well I couldn't hop on a random horse and pop it round a big course of jumps, so I don't do it. It is beyond my current ability and would be dangerous for both myself and the horse, and unfair and frightening to the horse to try, but I can safely say I'm a better jockey than some of them we saw in the pentathlon. Its not right.


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## Wizzkid (15 August 2012)

I'd have happily had a go on most of those horses!

At Uni we had the same deal and you should have seen some evil gits that would get dragged out for us to ride, i think at one place we actually draw straws!!


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## Mike007 (15 August 2012)

OK ,mad idea. Considering that the five sports are representing some mythical army messengers endevours. Lets get back to this. Get rid of the showjumps, stick up a relatively small course of portable x country fences . Somthing like 3 ft 3. BUT , they have to ride 3 horses in succesion ,against the clock , no help mounting, and on horses they have not even sat on yet. Points based purely on time.The advantages are that it would be easy to find suitable horses ,a lot fairer on the riders  and it would sort out who can and who cant ride.I would pay to watchEdited to add,and if you fall off you catch your own blooming horse


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## Kat (15 August 2012)

Mike007 said:



			and if you fall off you catch your own blooming horse
		
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Best idea yet! 

How about, if they have a pole they have to get off and rebuild? 

Perhaps the course could be more WH/Trec style so perhaps have a gate and things rather than just straight show jumps or xc fences.


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## camilla4 (15 August 2012)

Wizzkid said:



			I'd have happily had a go on most of those horses!

At Uni we had the same deal and you should have seen some evil gits that would get dragged out for us to ride, i think at one place we actually draw straws!!
		
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Exactly!  I'm not sure we even had 20 mins when I was doing University competitions, and I have a feeling that I only remember having two practice fences (but it was a while ago and my memory may not be 100% reliable!).  I, too, remember having to draw lots to see who was lucky enough to ride the one horse that was obviously pretty decent and who was left with the evil *******/bronco/beach donkey that was left


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## Amymay (15 August 2012)

Having watched the footage of the horse rearing, I'm not sure what the rider is supposed to have done wrong.  The horse said 'no' in no uncertain terms, and nearly killed the rider to boot.

(I won't comment on the general standard of penthathlon riding as I didn't see it.)


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## PolarSkye (15 August 2012)

Here's the thing . . . if the phase entails jumping on an unknown horse for 20 minutes and jumping five fences then why isn't that how the pentathletes train?  It's no good practicing on one horse . . . they need to make full advantage of some of the larger training centres and try and ride as many different horses as they can.  I have no way of knowing if this is what they already do . . . but judging by what I saw, I seriously doubt it.

'Twas ever thus, though . . . Beijing was worse . . . and I actually ended up with a bottle of champagne from a letter I wrote to H&H complaining about the athletes using the horses like bicycles.

P


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## Wizzkid (15 August 2012)

camilla4 said:



			Exactly!  I'm not sure we even had 20 mins when I was doing University competitions, and I have a feeling that I only remember having two practice fences (but it was a while ago and my memory may not be 100% reliable!).  I, too, remember having to draw lots to see who was lucky enough to ride the one horse that was obviously pretty decent and who was left with the evil *******/bronco/beach donkey that was left 

Haha!! I wonder if we competed at the same yards!!
		
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## camilla4 (15 August 2012)

Wizzkid said:





camilla4 said:



			Exactly!  I'm not sure we even had 20 mins when I was doing University competitions, and I have a feeling that I only remember having two practice fences (but it was a while ago and my memory may not be 100% reliable!).  I, too, remember having to draw lots to see who was lucky enough to ride the one horse that was obviously pretty decent and who was left with the evil *******/bronco/beach donkey that was left 

Haha!! I wonder if we competed at the same yards!!
		
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I suspect similar scenes were being played out on a weekly basis at yards around the country!  Happy days 

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## Maesfen (15 August 2012)

wench said:



			As I have said in NL... if your all that amazing at horse riding... we will see you in Rio!
		
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I think that's a stupid thing to say.

Those athletes have trained for that competition; they know what it entails.
They train hard for the swimming
They train hard for the fencing
They train hard for the running
They train hard for the shooting.

By the look of the majority of them, they don't give a fig about training hard for the riding.  If they had trained as hard as they should have you would expect them all to have been capable of much much better than what was seen because they should have been trained on a variety of horses so different horses shouldn't have fazed them at all; they should have known how to adapt to different types same as anyone at a riding school does regularly.  With very few exceptions they were an absolute disgrace.


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## humblepie (15 August 2012)

Not commenting on the riding or the horses, but don't think the halting in the start box to salute helped.   There were quite a few horses got upset when asked to move out of the start box who may have been quite happy if they had just trotted or cantered around as usual prior to a show jumping round.


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## ReefingsDad (15 August 2012)

amymay said:



			Having watched the footage of the horse rearing, I'm not sure what the rider is supposed to have done wrong.  The horse said 'no' in no uncertain terms, and nearly killed the rider to boot.




			a. Don't dig spurs into a horse whilst holding the rein in a vice-like grip, especially if it's a fit competition horse. The energy has to go somewhere, and if it can't go forward, it'll go up.

b. If you ignore a. and the horse DOES go up, don't lean back, maintaining the vice-like grip on the rein. You WILL pull the horse over.

That's what he did wrong.
		
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## mle22 (15 August 2012)

Mike007 said:



			The horse that reared and went over backwards should never have been there. It is all very well saying that these horses were test jumped but there is a world of difference betwean a rider that the horse trusts and is used to,popping it round a course,and a complete stranger getting on in a high stress environment regardless of how good a rider they are. And as for the rider hanging on too tight. The rider knows that this horse has already put its previous rider out of the competition, he is in the start box  and the clock is running, trying to control a complete git . It goes up and he falls backward pulling the horse high and over.I have seen plenty of quite good riders completely phased by a rearing horse,if you have never experienced it before it can be terrifying. I have also seen quite a few haveing a complete nightmare in the start box at BE.A seasoned competition rider might have been able to sort things out ,but a young Pentathlete had no chance.I thought he was incredibly brave.
		
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Totally agree!


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## dieseldog (15 August 2012)

appaloosacaz said:



			However the horse started rearing in the first place because of the rider not letting the horse move his head in the slightest, Poor horse, when he started the round, tight reins and when the horse started rearing he clung on, and didn't allow with his hands. As for the horses being unsuitable... the horses had to be vigorously tested out of hundreds to find ones which were suitable for the job, obviously horses are unpredictable, so even the best can misbehave. However these horses are used to people who can ride to a high standard, so obviously it was a shock having some of these riders on them...
		
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Apparently the horse that went over backwards had already done it to the Chinese rider in the warm up, seriously injuring him - does that sound like a suitable horse to you?


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## ReefingsDad (15 August 2012)

OK - let's have a look at this. A horse rears in the collecting ring, injuring its rider to the point that he's forced to withdraw from the Olympics. There are reserve horses available, but instead of withdrawing the horse in question, the organisers and the next rider decide to continue to use him for the competition.

Not very likely, imo.

I haven't seen anything to indicate that the horse had previously reared or misbehaved. The only reports I've been able to find state that the chinese rider fell off and injured his back.

If I'm wrong, I apologise unreservedly, but it doesn't ring true for me.


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## Maesfen (15 August 2012)

I do have to say that it looked to me that the horse had flipped itself over far too quickly for it to only be because of the rider even though I know the rider didn't help the situation.  It looked like it was a learned habit, the fall was far too quick and the horse didn't seem to try to save itself which is normal for a horse that's being pulled backwards, soft mouth or not.


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## teapot (15 August 2012)

ReefingsDad said:



			OK - let's have a look at this. A horse rears in the collecting ring, injuring its rider to the point that he's forced to withdraw from the Olympics. There are reserve horses available, but instead of withdrawing the horse in question, the organisers and the next rider decide to continue to use him for the competition.

Not very likely, imo.

I haven't seen anything to indicate that the horse had previously reared or misbehaved. The only reports I've been able to find state that the chinese rider fell off and injured his back.

If I'm wrong, I apologise unreservedly, but it doesn't ring true for me.
		
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It was posted by someone on here who had been at Greenwich on the day, on a thread that was started in new lounge entitled 'men's modern pentathlon' (or words to that effect).

I'm just reading through the rules to see what it says about asking for a reserve horse...


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## Flame_ (15 August 2012)

ReefingsDad said:



			OK - let's have a look at this. A horse rears in the collecting ring, injuring its rider to the point that he's forced to withdraw from the Olympics. There are reserve horses available, but instead of withdrawing the horse in question, the organisers and the next rider decide to continue to use him for the competition.

Not very likely, imo.

I haven't seen anything to indicate that the horse had previously reared or misbehaved. The only reports I've been able to find state that the chinese rider fell off and injured his back.
		
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Well tbh, if that horse's response to being driven on and hung on to at the same time, by a rider with terrible hands, is to rear to escape the pressure, its entirely conceivable it happened twice, likely even considering the overall riding standard. What's to say the Chinese bloke was any better balanced or had any better hands? That doesn't make it a bad horse, just not a mug, and a rider ought to be able to ride it.


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## ReefingsDad (15 August 2012)

Found it.

All I can say is "Wow!".

Can't believe they'd be so dumb as to do that. If I'd seen a horse do that to another rider, there's no way I'd get on to jump a round of showjumps. If I was the organiser, I wouldn't want the potential lawsuit for using a dodgy horse. if I was the owner, I'd pull my horse out before more damage was done. Bizarre decision, that makes me even more convinced that unless they're going to take the riding more seriously, it should be taken out of the competition.

I used to deal with "problem" horses when I was younger (although "problem" OWNERS was usually more accurate), and dealing with horses that reared was usually done without a saddle. Those were the days when I was worth less than the horse...


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## teapot (15 August 2012)

Rules here for anyone interested: http://www.pentathlon.org/images/Rules/ii 4 riding 17 1 2012final.pdf


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