# Horse injured whilst on sales livery



## Luckycharm (18 August 2016)

Due to tragic personal circumstances i have had to send my horse away to be sold to what i thought was a reputable horse producer/dealer. Within 12 hours of arriving at the yard my horse has somehow managed to injure herself on the horse walker. The dealer said told me she had injured herself in the stable but would be ok within a month to sell. He also began to push very heavily for payment upfront which it was originally agreed payment out of the sales price. After speaking to the treating vet it has become apparent that my mare hurt herself on the walker and now requires 3 months complete box rest followed by a further 3 months box rest and controlled exercise. Prognosis to return to previous level of work is good (BE90/100).
I do not have any transport and have left the yard i was previously at. In short i cannot due to the personal circumstances i find myself in have her back.
she has been at the dealers for a month now and the dealer has advised that if i 'gave her' to him we would call it quits with regards to the livery money and the fact she is worth peanuts now. I am completely at a loss as to where i stand. I took my horse to him, easily expecting to achieve a minimum of £5.5k (she's worth about £8k but need a quick sale so was fine to keep the price low). She has good eventing breeding and has competed up to novice level (she's just 9 now) so could sell her as a broodmare with ability to come back into work with correct rehab but this is a very small market i feel he is taking the piss! he was aware of my sad circumstances and now i have nothing.
any advice etc?????


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## Mince Pie (18 August 2016)

I would be contacting an equine lawyer.


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## madlady (18 August 2016)

Threaten to sue him for the value of the horse circa £8k!

Seriously he is taking the pee - the horse has been injured in his care so I personally wouldn't expect to pay him anything until the horse is fully recovered and in a fit state to sell.

On a serious note, are you a member of the BHS?  I'd contact their legal helpline.


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## Mince Pie (18 August 2016)

I think I'd also be handing him the vet bill....

Out of sheer nosiness, what is the injury?


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## ester (18 August 2016)

why did he lie and tell you that she injured herself in the stable not on the walker?
was she supposed to be on the walker? was she left unsupervised on the walker etc?

Accidents do happen so I wonder legally if it depends if either he was negligent or breached the agreement in some way.


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## SusieT (18 August 2016)

How can the vet say it was definitely caused on the walker?
Both you and the dealer should have insurnace - you should have horse insurance and he should have insurance that covers clients horses while they are with him - first thing I would do is ask him to present the bill to his insurer, accidents happen with horses especially in  new places - if you are not prepared to risk losing the value of the horse in an accident then you need to have insurance for loss of use.
I would be bringing the horse home/sending to rehab livery and then following vets advice. It is rubbish and not great when you are otherwise struggling but it's life.


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## ester (18 August 2016)

I presumed that the seller had told the vet it happened on the walker?
Whos vet was this yours or the dealers?


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## Red-1 (18 August 2016)

When we bought a horse last year that was not right for me (too big, hurt my back) she went straight onto sales livery at a yard I would trust with my.... well with my horse - which is trust indeed!

I decided not to insure for various reasons (she was advertised at £6,500 but I think would have been worth more if I had not wanted a quick sale as she was not right for me). 

I decided that if an accident happened there then it would probably would just as likely have happened at home, as they are very professional. I trusted them implicitly, and still do. Whilst there she was ridden, went on the walker, went to shows, was turned out.

TBH, that was all at my risk. Unless the yard proved to be doing something they should not have, like giving lessons on her (which I know they would not!) then I would have taken the view that accidents are accidents and horses are horses, and with the best will in the world accidents happen to horses.

As it happened she loved it there and sold very quickly.

IMO, in your case, the yard would have to be proved negligent for you to get any money for the incident. I would ask if she had been introduced to the walker, or just chucked on and left unsupervised, and also why there was a discrepancy between what the livery told you and what they told the vet. 

I can see why they would now want payment up front, with my horse is a similar arrangement, I paid out of the sale price as long as she sold within a month or so, otherwise I would have started to pay regular livery. They are running a business, and that seemed fair.

Have you seen the injury to ensure she is actually injured?

If so, the facts are that you now own a virtually unsaleable horse (currently anyway).  As you do not want her back, your options seem to be... PTS, keep at livery, give away, sell at a nominal amount, keep and try to find retirement home, cheaper livery, other option, including the option for them to take her off your hands (although that would only be as long as I totally trusted them to be honest and also do the right thing by the horse - as in not send unwarranted to a sales).


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## Luckycharm (9 September 2016)

UPDATE: sorry for not getting back to anyone, my life is in a mess!
Dealer has been extremely difficult to make contact with. He never answers any phone calls, texts or emails. The rare occasion he has answered the phone he has been extremely rude. After threatening legal action he agreed to purchase my horse and rehab her himself. The prognosis for returning to eventing is very good and he has already had interest in her. 
A small asking price was agreed as i would have to send her away for rehab and this would eat into the money I sold her for. Unfortunately half the agreed price was transferred to my account but the other half is not forthcoming.  I do not know what to do now.
I have paid the £2000 vets bill
I am looking to refer the information to trading standards
What do you suggest?


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## HeresHoping (9 September 2016)

Luckycharm said:



			UPDATE: sorry for not getting back to anyone, my life is in a mess!
Dealer has been extremely difficult to make contact with. He never answers any phone calls, texts or emails. The rare occasion he has answered the phone he has been extremely rude. After threatening legal action he agreed to purchase my horse and rehab her himself. The prognosis for returning to eventing is very good and he has already had interest in her. 
A small asking price was agreed as i would have to send her away for rehab and this would eat into the money I sold her for. Unfortunately half the agreed price was transferred to my account but the other half is not forthcoming.  I do not know what to do now.
I have paid the £2000 vets bill
I am looking to refer the information to trading standards
What do you suggest?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry for your ordeal. You need a lawyer, now, I'm afraid. Do you have BHS gold membership? If so, I suggest you take advantage of their legal helpline. If you don't, you do need to talk to a lawyer anyway. I think if you search Peter Natt on here he has a list of equine lawyers. I think it was Peter, anyway. Failing that, pm me. I'm married to a litigation lawyer and I can pick his brains for you.


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## SusieT (9 September 2016)

Go and collect the horse until he makes further payment.


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## bluebellfreddy (9 September 2016)

SusieT said:



			Go and collect the horse until he makes further payment.
		
Click to expand...

I think is exactly what the dealer wants, there is very little chance he wants a broken horse that he can't sell for another 6 months! Only reason he is buying the horse is to stop a legal battle.


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## honetpot (9 September 2016)

I would give him a reasonable time frame to pay the money in writing by registered letter and if he doesn't pay take him to the small claims court for the rest of the money, that way its will cost you very little and he has to keep feeding it.This is supposing you have evidence of the contract of sale.
  I expect he is trying to stall so he can sell the mare before he pays you. I would also write a letter to the PIO and anything its registered with and tell them that you still own it.


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## Alec Swan (9 September 2016)

OP,  what a dreadful situation you find yourself in,  through no apparent fault of yours,  or 'possibly' the dealer's.

Every horse that I've ever sent away (mostly mares to stud) has been entirely at my own risk,  with all veterinary bills being my responsibility.  EVERY establishment where I've left a horse has always made it quite clear that horses are left in their care at the owners risk.

I'm now looking at this from the dealers standpoint (I'm not a dealer btw!),  and whilst he has in every other way,  from what you say,  cared for your mare,  the accident,  be it in a box or the walker,  providing that he's shown due diligence,  sadly is an accident and they happen, we know.

What are the likely costs of keeping your mare in for six months?  Well,  I would be wanting somewhere in the region of £60 rising to £80 per week when she comes back in to work,  and for that she would be fed and cared for properly.  That is likely to reach a total of about £1700 and it's also likely that there will be further veterinary charges and the need for a farrier on occasion.  The likely total will be in excess of £2k.

The dealer is now in a predicament,  he either presents you with a monthly bill for the box-rest keep of the horse and it seems for the next six months,  with further charges to get the mare in to a saleable shape over the last three months,  or he asks you to remove the horse from his yard or he makes an offer to take the horse as payment.

The dreadful truth is that any horse which has a sale value of £5-8k but is injured to the point of needing six months and considerable work,  is in reality,  of little or no financial value as she stands now. 

By all means seek legal advice,  but my honest opinion is that unless you can clearly prove a negligent approach on the part of the dealer,  then you will have no case.  Should you find legal counsel who will take on your case,  then you will almost certainly alienate yourself from the yard owner,  and may well end up with with costs,  both legal and keep where you'll wish that you'd gifted the horse when the offer was made.

Going back now to the dealer;  I suspect that he's attempting to make an offer which will put him at some risk.  A six month box-rest regime would have me thinking that the injury is serious.  There is no guarantee that she will return to work as has been suggested,  and he is also taking on a gamble.

I do understand your predicament,  but if it isn't the responsibility of the dealer,  as it may not be,  then the horse is still your responsibility.  The injury to your horse has changed the 'deal' and if the agreement is that the keep costs are taken from the sale price,  and if she sells for the hoped for £5k,  then the reality is that you will end up receiving very little in payment.  In fact,  she may well end up being sold and the sale price not equalling the keep costs.

I'm sorry OP that this probably isn't what you want the hear,  but I'm playing devil's advocate and hope that you accept that I'm actually on your side.

Alec.


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## HeresHoping (9 September 2016)

Alec, much as I adore you, I am afraid I have to disagree. She agreed a price with the dealer and the dealer has reneged on the deal. Breach of contract. He has paid half of what he said he would. Agreeing to pay in the first place was an acceptance of liability.


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