# Prognosis for Arthritis in Coffin Joint?



## thrillsnspills (13 November 2009)

My 16yr-old cob has just been diagnosed with arthritis in both front coffin joints. He's on bute at the moment (one sachet a day) and will be having steroid injections on 1st December. Plus remedial shoeing, so he will want for nothing!

Does anyone have any experience of this? How much ridden work can you do with a condition like this? Can you still compete? Help!


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## kezimac (14 November 2009)

my mare has it mildly at mo..... she was diagnosed in june with navicular and on the xray the vet noticed a spur on the coffin joint on one foot. she does have arthritis in hocks anyway. she has eggbars with wedges, she has had no medication other than navilox course for the navicular. (she not insured now for arthritis so no tildren or aquedan) - she is sound and working fine -we avoid hard surfaces and unlevel surfaces but is ridden 6 times a week mainly in arena and copes fine. She may well deterioate as it progresses but competing at lower level dressage now. 
She also has magnetic rug at night, bioflow boots on fronts during night and hinds during day, she also on pernamax joing supplement too.


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## spacefaer (14 November 2009)

We have a 16 yr old maxi cob - he's got arthritis in his fetlock &amp; coffin joint and high ringbone - all on the same leg.  He was medicated (steroid injections) this summer into each joint individually so we could see which was mopst affected.  He went 60% sound after the 1st (into the fetlock) and 95% sound after the pastern injection.  Then we put his shoes back on and he went as lame as he had been! Injected the coffin joint and he's now about 1/10 lame on the turn - sound enough in a straight line.

He doesn't have any special treatment - just FeelGood 30 Joint &amp; Relief for joint support and pain relief - which seems to be the equivalent for him as 2 sachets bute.

He's fit and hunting this season, with the proviso of a sachet of bute the night after.

He only hunts, so he's sound enough on the soft ground for what he does.  He wouldn't be sound enough to do a dressage test or anything on hard ground - but he'd have a hairy fit if I asked him to anyway lol!

also - I would put bioflow boots on him if he'd let me - I can't put boots or bandages on him - he stamps the relevent foot until I take it off (all night if necessary!)


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## smokeyjo (14 November 2009)

Yes my boy was diagnosed with the same (both front coffin joints) 2 years ago aged 19.  He went extremely lame quite suddenly and I was honestly wondering whether the PTS decision was approaching.

However he was treated with steroid injections and it was like a miracle had occurred.  He is now on one bute a day, permanently. He also has Extraflex HA with rosehips joint supplement, cod liver oil and wears magnetic bands 24/7 - though I'm not sure which (if any) are helping!

We avoid any fast work on hard or uneven ground, especially sharp turns and don't trot on the road any more.  However he is 100% sound and is absolutely up for a good fast ride.  He's fine working on the school surface too.  

Hope that helps and lots of good vibes for your boy.


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## Theresa_F (17 November 2009)

Cairo had low ringbone - I found for him wearing magnetic bands 24 x 7 really helped.  He went without any bute for about three years until he had another OAP problem.  I feed linseed for his joints and MSM 1000 which gave as good results as other supplements in his case.

He was still able to hack and if the ground was soft, enjoyed a good gallop and a few small jumps.

We did stop doing XC and SJ competitions and schooling was kept to large circles - never less than 20 m.

We also kept him in constant gentle exercise and turned out as much as we could.


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## Darkly_Dreaming_Dex (17 November 2009)

QR 
Our Jacob has it- was even in last weeks Horse and Hound Mag article about it! I am afraid that we have had 18 months of treating it, Jacob coming sound (even returning to hunting and jumping) and then going lame again. We have tried Steriod, Adequan,Cartrophen (2 courses)and IRAP injections. Magnetic boots,copper straps and every type of supplement inc the £100+ ones. Specially made shoes, pads, barefoot. Even an arthroscopy operation which removed a tiny bone chip and tidied up damaged cartilage but he remains lame


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## lynsey1808 (19 November 2009)

My 8 year old has just been diagnosed with it. He has had 2 steroid injections- one left to go, a course of Adequan and is now on Synequin.
He is currently sound but is only in walk and will start trotting next week.
I think it really is different for every horse and I will keep going with any treatment available until I run out of options!!
Good Luck


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## GMR (5 June 2010)

MY  horse has just been diagnosed with this too, had his coffin joints injected have to wait 3 weeks then call the vet, no special shoeing at this stage.....I just really hope this works, feel really devastated, but he doesnt , he seems very happy.


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## horselib (5 June 2010)

My mare aged 20 has arthritis in coffin joint .She was medicated in coffin joint and navicular bursae with hyluronic acid and depo steroid the vet could see arthritic changes in the coffin joint but decided to medicate the navicular bursea to be on the safe side.
She is on 1 danilon(when very hard under foot 2 danilon plus a joint supplement Flexamine HA 1 measure morning 1 measure evening.She is 16hh weight 650 kilo
She is sound for light hacking and schooling in my sand arena in walk and trot .
The first time she was medicated it took a while to improve and lasted from June to end of March when she was done again .
The vet also discussed the xrays with my farrier and a special heartbar shoe was made for that front foot fiting the new shoe seemed to coincide with coming sound a week after the injections.
She is much better on 24 hour turn out than when kept in though she is stabled at night in winter,
On this regime I hope to keep her in light work for some years.
I bred from her and have her son now aged 5 so will tail off her work as I increase his


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## mja (9 June 2010)

My 10 year old has arthritic knees but is riding well on the flat on herbs alone!  I have a mix made for me a good herbalist and she so far needs no other medication.

I ride her 5/6 days a week with hacking for an hour and we are building up her gentle schooling sessions in the hope of being back to prelim dressage in the summer!


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## helenangel (12 October 2014)

my mare had steroid injections don't last very long she in very little works she very slow had wedge put in her front shoes try to help not getting much better im afraid she 19 now


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## Andalucian (13 October 2014)

In my experience prognosis is guarded at best if you follow vets advice but very much more positive if you ignore them and go barefoot.


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## smokeyjo (13 October 2014)

I was really surprised to see this thread from several years ago re-appearing.  As I was one of the original posters I thought I'd update.

My boy is still going strong.  His management is still exactly the same - i.e. 1 sachet of bute (now Danilon) daily, Extraflex HA with Rosehips joint supplement and magnetic bands 24/7.  He has not needed any steroid injections since 2010

He is now 27, so is slowing down.  He was diagnosed with Cushings last November so now has Prascend in his drugs cabinet

He has been sound throughout, except for a couple of abcesses within the last few years (first symptoms of Cushings?)  

Last year he did 3 organised Fun Rides and really went for it, and we would have done a couple this year but family commitments intervened.

Re the comment about maybe doing something different from what the vet advises, I have followed my vet's advice with this condition, although I respect the fact that other people have differing opinions  

My lad has been shod throughout, in fact the vet said that he should have shoes as they give the joints support.  I am not knowledgeable enough about feet/shoeing to comment on this.  However, it is 5 years ago since I first posted, so the advice I received was spot on for my situation.

As the vet originally told me 'this is a condition which is progressive and irreversible, but which can be effectively managed.

Good luck to anyone who has just received this diagnosis - I know how upsetting it is.


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## jessx27 (13 November 2014)

Anyone's opinions here would be gratefully received.

My 9 year old mare was diagnosed yesterday with arthritis in both coffin joints, and early stages of sidebone starting too. She has extremely twisted conformation in her front legs which appears to have gotten worse as the years have worn on and the ligaments have shortened with the elasticity wearing off. She had xrays and remedial shoes yesterday after 3 months of forelimb lameness that had been put down to laminitis initially and 3 different vets were baffled.
In August when the lameness first started she had feet xrays done and there was no structural changes so this has all started suddenly and is progressing quickly.

However on top of this she also has KS, sacroiliac & hock arthritis (cartilage damage in both hocks) plus suspected stifle/pelvis problems. All at a mere 9yo. We tried injecting her spine & SI in march, lasted about 4 months before she got very sore and began violently stopping at fences which is seriously out of character. Due to the signs of laminitis (but its very strange and we aren't 100% sure it WAS lami), we're extremely guarded about giving her steroids.

After yesterday's findings she has had a full set of equilibrium shoes on to spec. She trotted up 100% sound behind and the farrier said she was a different horse, but still very short in front (however her legs were so twisted that the bone structures inside her feet were twisted too, bones lopsided and some touching where there should be gaps) so I didn't expect a miracle cure - by rights its a miracle she wasn't completely crippled. We are going to start lightly hacking her out and see what happens and talk with the vet again in a few weeks. 

At this stage the possibility of injections for coffin joints has been discussed but I really don't want to go down that route. Due to the possibility of lami for one, the second that her twisted conformation will probably prevent any treatment working as well as it should as her body is working against her regardless, and the 3rd that she has 3 other areas that need injecting and if we treat one it's pointless and fighting a losing battle unless we can treat them all! If that even makes sense.. it's hard to write it all down in short form as its been nearly 18 months of constant problems so its hard to tell everyone the full story and all the reasoning behind our decisions.
It's all racing through my head and anyone else's views on this are welcome before I have to battle it out with the vet in a few weeks who I know will go all out on treating her. 

Knowing the horse's history, my mum agrees with me that we would rather just try and keep it at bay with remedial shoeing and bute her up rather than go down the invasive treatments route - again. But I feel that's a selfish decision on my part. I know there are logical explanations for both decisions, but my heart is telling me that long term treating her wont do much - due to all her other problems within a couple of years (thats being optimistic), she will be retired at best and PTS at worst. 

If anyone is kind and dedicated enough to read all my ramblings here, thankyou. I just needed to get it off my chest. Was a huge shock and just don't know how to react.


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## Sheep (13 November 2014)

I'm sorry to hear of your mare's diagnosis. My boy has wonky legs, sidebones, coffin joint arthritis (and hock arthritis, and mild KS). He is retired at present, but I am hoping to start hacking gently in the spring. His forelimb confirmation was also working against him.. remedial shoeing did sod all (as did the injections, FWIW) so I took him barefoot and he did really well. It's a slow process, but he is slowly growing the hoof to suit his confirmation. I am not sure if this will bring back true soundness, but if I can get him comfortable enough to hack out in walk, I will be delighted. If not, he will stay retired.
Honestly, I believe the problems were caused by years of poor shoeing.... I got him as a very flat footed 16yr old. I believe his problems were caused by the knock on effect of his compromised hoof structure, and years of compensating for it. Now though with a great farrier on board (who isn't forcing me to shoe him) I think I can change things for the better, though whether this brings back a level of soundness where he can come back into work, I do not know. 
Anyway, I think you need to think very carefully about the course of action, possibly PM Ester on here too, her pony had problems with his coffin joint and she has got him up to a really good level of work.

PS the coloured horse in your sig is the spit of my bf's mare, same shape and stance! How is she bred?


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## Zuzzie (15 November 2014)

Jessx27.  So sorry to hear about your horse's problems - you have a lot to contend with.  My gelding has arthritis in his right fore coffin joint and had virtually all the recommended treatment but was still lame at the end.  Basically, because arthritis has to be kept moving, I hack him out everyday on one bute per day given at breakfast. I try to make sure he is worked on soft ground as this is easier for him.  In the summer when the ground is hard he is worse but sometimes in the winter I can get him off the bute as the ground is much kinder to him.

With regard to steroid injections, these are only short lived solutions.  The first one will be like a miracle cure, second one will last a lot less time and so on.  They are a waste of time and money and I'm not sure that they do the foot any good at all. 

I feed him organic turmeric, micronised linseed and black pepper as this has proved effective for some horses.  There is a Facebook Group devoted to this subject and I would recommend you read some of the posts on there - you will be surprised at some of the results.  It doesn't cost much compared to some supplements (which I have spent lots of money on) which don't work.

I hope this helps.  Good luck.


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## jessx27 (15 November 2014)

Thankyou. It's the coloured one in the sig! She's ISH, by Riverstown Gypsy out of a TB mare. Looking a lot fluffier and less muscled than that now sadly!

It's a relief to see that I'm not the only one to disregard the injections. They didn't work for very long on her spine & sacroiliac so I don't think there's much hope where they're concerned even if I did want her to have them. 
I'd already long accepted that she would probably not do more than hack again which is a shame as she's a horse in a million but love her to the moon and back and she'll never go anywhere regardless of whether she's an overgrown lawnmower for another 20 years! 

If it's up to me I want to just shoe her as best we can, get some bute into her and just keep her ticking over for as long as we can. It's not too advanced yet, but if she's hared around the field she is absolutely crippled. Think I might have to get in touch with the vet again as she didn't give us bute from the outset just wanting to see how things went, but her KS is obviously playing havoc - she's the sweetest natured horse but as soon as I go to put the saddle on she's trying to double barrel the wall so obviously in a lot of pain and there's no way I'm attempting to ride her like that. 

I'm very open to going barefoot - my exracer went barefoot very happily through the winter and spring. But for the time being, putting the shoes back on have hugely helped Mia, especially in her back end so will just see how things go. She naturally was wearing her feet down on the outside though which was exaggerating her twisted forelimbs so not sure whether in the long term it will be a possibility, but will just wait and see - time will tell. I have the turmeric page on FB and we're thinking about it as we have my old retired welshy too (the other one in the sig!) who has bad arthritis in both stifles and is really stiff, so he would benefit from it too. 

Thankyou for the tips, reassured me to know I wasn't being mad by not wanting injections. The vet is absolutely lovely, but they have quite a way of making you feel like the worst person ever by not doing every single expensive treatment!


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## Sheep (15 November 2014)

Fingers crossed you find something to help her! my boy had the injections but the effect was very short lived, so I decided not to do them again. fortunately his KS is mild, so this shouldn't pose too many problems if brought into work gently.
Your girl is gorgeous, the resemblance is uncanny! It sounds like you have her best interests at heart no matter what, so good luck


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