# Exmoor ponies being culled



## Dave's Mam (1 March 2018)

I am fairly sure you've all seen this in the news this week & how the EPS being slow in issuing passports has allegedly led to ponies being slaughtered.

The herd involved has history of running non Exmoor stallions with the mares & they didn't DNA test the mares & stallions.  

The ponies could have had & did have eventually ID passports.

Please don't take the fanatical headline to be true.   The whole thing is badly researched & not true.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (1 March 2018)

It's so soul destroying to read this! 
If only those particular breeders bothered to follow the breed society guidelines then they wouldn't have a problem! Then they compound things by going to the press, when the problem was totally caused by themselves in the first place! :mad3:


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## Chinchilla (1 March 2018)

Thank you for clarifying, Dave's mam - I thought it was a bit dubious, I mean why would a proper ethical breeder cull ponies that so much time, thought, money and energy has gone into breeding? Doesn't make sense


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## Equi (1 March 2018)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			It's so soul destroying to read this! 
If only those particular breeders bothered to follow the breed society guidelines then they wouldn't have a problem! Then they compound things by going to the press, when the problem was totally caused by themselves in the first place! :mad3:
		
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Anything for a bit of drama and press! Just like how they also put a clyde to an exmoor, then sold the results at market for nothing. They have no place being in the business, but if they have a little fame what do they care.


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## scotlass (1 March 2018)

Controversy over these herds and the associated press that it generates only ever materialises in conjunction with the publicity for an impending book.

Dave's Mam is right.  The only reason these ponies needed DNA'd is because their breeding is questionable due to the unregistered, cross bred and completely different breeds that may have been running with them.

As for them perhaps being culled ... stop producing them for the sake of it.   If you can't feed them, don't breed them.


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## zaminda (2 March 2018)

Makes a good story for the people who don't know the background though!! When I saw the story and who was involved I was dubious immediately but horsey friends who didn't know were horrified!


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## MotherOfChickens (2 March 2018)

its worth repeating that this breeder currently bleating about having to cull his ponies, is the same one that stuck a Shire/Clyde stallion out with some Exmoor mares a few years ago and the one responsible for the orphaned cremello cross Exmoor foal currently being raised by a friend of theirs. you know the one, the 'planned and wanted breeding' that they then wouldn't pay the bills for. 

*awaits threatening PMs and infraction*


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## ester (2 March 2018)

I think I conclude that she just loves a bit of drama, 

and yes of course, with book sales in mind.


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## Laika (2 March 2018)

Ruddy hell


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## Chinchilla (2 March 2018)

MotherOfChickens said:



			its worth repeating that this breeder currently bleating about having to cull his ponies, is the same one that stuck a Shire/Clyde stallion out with some Exmoor mares a few years ago and the one responsible for the orphaned cremello cross Exmoor foal currently being raised by a friend of theirs. you know the one, the 'planned and wanted breeding' that they then wouldn't pay the bills for. 

*awaits threatening PMs and infraction*
		
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I feel like the word breeder needs to be written in inverted commas. So called breeders like that are why there is such a  massive equine overpopulation crisis in the UK.


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## Equi (2 March 2018)

Quite. Then to hide behind a rare breed is farcical.


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## Peregrine Falcon (2 March 2018)

Responsible breeders don't have a problem getting the correct passports I assume?  They know that registrations have to be passed through council and the last date for that.


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## Chinchilla (2 March 2018)

Does this "breeder" have a page? Can anyone share a link please?


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## ester (2 March 2018)

https://www.facebook.com/ExmoorPonyClub/?pnref=lhc


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## MotherOfChickens (2 March 2018)

ester said:



https://www.facebook.com/ExmoorPonyClub/?pnref=lhc

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thats not the actual breeder though ester.


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## scotlass (2 March 2018)

MotherOfChickens said:



			thats not the actual breeder though ester.
		
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She is their "spokesperson" though.

And no, other responsible Exmoor breeders have no problems with passports or entry into the stud book.


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## Dave's Mam (2 March 2018)

It's a shame that the media did not research these articles more thoroughly & put forward the real facts in balance.


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## ester (2 March 2018)

MotherOfChickens said:



			thats not the actual breeder though ester.
		
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no sorry I know, but she is the one that shouts the loudest.


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## Chinchilla (2 March 2018)

ester said:



https://www.facebook.com/ExmoorPonyClub/?pnref=lhc

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They're just pushing for sales of books/merchandise and bitching about how the EPS didn't let them register their ponies who don't conform to the breed standard...
Can't find this clyde/shire stallion whio was allegedly allowed to run with exmoors though...


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## MotherOfChickens (2 March 2018)

Chinchilla said:



			Can't find this clyde/shire stallion whio was allegedly allowed to run with exmoors though...
		
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you won't, because the person who runs that page isn't the breeder-if you do some HHO sleuthing you'll get more of the story 

e.g.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?711424-Cross-breeding-differnt-sizes-follow-up


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## Chinchilla (2 March 2018)

MotherOfChickens said:



			you won't, because the person who runs that page isn't the breeder-if you do some HHO sleuthing you'll get more of the story 

e.g.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?711424-Cross-breeding-differnt-sizes-follow-up

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Thank you MOC, I had a look at this too - http://people4ponies.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/brendon-fair.html
Pics aren't great but from what I can tell from that thread you shared and the blog post that's the clyde x exie foals and their sire. Makes me wonder what became of the foals...poor little things didn't ask to come into a world with such idiots did they?  
I hope they didn't end up suffering somewhere or being dumped, no pony regardless of breeding deserves that, but I do feel no one with sense would want such a bonkers cross, particularly one with potentially dodgy conformation. 
Breeding with such a size differential is just stupid - even doing it the other way round, as here (https://minigypsy.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/a-tale-of-another-breed-attempt-to-miniaturize/) has always struck me as pretty dumb, though there was a successful attempt to cross a 15.3 akhal teke onto an 11.2 Welsh A at solaris sport horses a few years ago...but it could have been very different.


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## Heatherbelle (2 March 2018)

This whole issue was started as yet another way to throw dirt at the EPS - and we all know why. In my opinion it has backfired, as almost everyone who has commented on the tv clips - Sky, Points West and Westward news - has condemned the unfeeling breeders who will overbreed and then cull when no sales are apparent. Not the result the instigator of all this publicity had hoped for! As well as 3 tv channels at least 3 newpapers have covered the story. Just a pity that all this journalistic talent can't be put to better use!


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## MotherOfChickens (2 March 2018)

there have been successful TB x Exmoors and I believe, lusitano x exmoor. neither cross made more than about 14h and the TB crosses were nice from what I saw of them. even if the mare's size governs foal size (and I'm not sure I agree with a size difference of that magnitude) its wrong imo to put such a big stallion in with 12.2h mares-I don't know how many of them there were.


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## Chinchilla (2 March 2018)

MotherOfChickens said:



			there have been successful TB x Exmoors and I believe, lusitano x exmoor. neither cross made more than about 14h and the TB crosses were nice from what I saw of them. even if the mare's size governs foal size (and I'm not sure I agree with a size difference of that magnitude) its wrong imo to put such a big stallion in with 12.2h mares-I don't know how many of them there were.
		
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This. 100%. Agree. /\
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## Heatherbelle (2 March 2018)

MotherOfChickens said:



			there have been successful TB x Exmoors and I believe, lusitano x exmoor. neither cross made more than about 14h and the TB crosses were nice from what I saw of them. even if the mare's size governs foal size (and I'm not sure I agree with a size difference of that magnitude) its wrong imo to put such a big stallion in with 12.2h mares-I don't know how many of them there were.
		
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I believe 5 Exmoor mares were used the first time, only 2 of which produced foals.


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## Dave's Mam (2 March 2018)

I guess what I was trying to say in my OP was to try & see past the sensational & emotive headline & do what the media should have done & do a bit of research, but from the replies, I see I am preaching to the already converted.


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## MotherOfChickens (2 March 2018)

Dave's Mam said:



			I guess what I was trying to say in my OP was to try & see past the sensational & emotive headline & do what the media should have done & do a bit of research, but from the replies, I see I am preaching to the already converted.
		
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from what I've seen on FB where this has been brought up-the breeder has come off worst. although I've had some mad American bint follow me around calling me an EPS troll. bit ironic when a) I'm not a member b) own a Section X gelding so doing my bit as it were.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (2 March 2018)

No matter where "blame" or "fault" lies; one cannot but feel so sorry for these poor sad little ponies, brought into the world and then immediately not wanted 

Why why oh why do people do this?


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## Dave's Mam (2 March 2018)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			No matter where "blame" or "fault" lies; one cannot but feel so sorry for these poor sad little ponies, brought into the world and then immediately not wanted 

Why why oh why do people do this?
		
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Totally agree.


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## Cecile (2 March 2018)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			No matter where "blame" or "fault" lies; one cannot but feel so sorry for these poor sad little ponies, brought into the world and then immediately not wanted 

Why why oh why do people do this?
		
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Maybe just because they can or they believe an empty uterus is useless, I don't get it either
I did wonder when I first read the article about the difficulty they seemed to be having as a ploy to get people
to buy these foals whether they wanted them or not or else they would be killed

I then remembered the Taffety discussion and wondered how that was going in Dartmoor, you can either buy it to ride, drive, use it as a companion, use it for conservation or buy a chuck of it and eat it
http://www.dartmoorconservationmeat.co.uk/


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## Leo Walker (3 March 2018)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I believe, lusitano x exmoor.
		
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There were 2 possibly 3 of this cross and from what I remember they made nice ponies.


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## ester (3 March 2018)

I'm sure exmoors do make nice crosses, I think I remember an xTB one, but surely it makes emminently more sense to use an exmoor sire?


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## Chinchilla (3 March 2018)

ester said:



			I'm sure exmoors do make nice crosses, I think I remember an xTB one, but surely it makes emminently more sense to use an exmoor sire?
		
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It does, they're a rare breed...


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## MotherOfChickens (3 March 2018)

Leo Walker said:



			There were 2 possibly 3 of this cross and from what I remember they made nice ponies.
		
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having had both breeds at the same time, I'm not sure I'd want to deal with those metabolic genes lol. I don't see the need to cross either tbh but then i tend to think there's enough breeds to do the jobs people want anyway.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (3 March 2018)

ester said:



			I'm sure exmoors do make nice crosses, I think I remember an xTB one, but surely it makes emminently more sense to use an exmoor sire?
		
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Piglet,  the wonderful eventer was part Exmoor 

Thing is, these 'misguided' people are not even trying to breed from good examples on either side, moan like hell when parentage is questioned, then blame anyone apart from  themselves......


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## DawnWestcott (4 March 2018)

The point of the Exmoor farmers speaking to the media over their concerns about Exmoor Pony Society registrations and passporting issues, was not actually about the (very important) number of purebred Exmoors being excluded from the stud book currently. It was born out of complete frustration about the year after year delays in registering their foals out of PEDIGREE MARES sired by PEDIGREE STALLIONS. There appear to be serious 'anomalies' in the EPS DNA source data. There are also continual 'mistakes' in data capture. Further, herd owners are encouraged by the society to not put foals forward for inspection at all, being told their foals are 'too difficult to register' and 'there is no market for them. 
This is absolute tosh, because, when the source data is correct and paperwork is supplied on time, allowing marketing efforts to successfully find buyers - they are not difficult to register and homes can be found. Foals need to find homes in the autumn - not the following year. And perhaps the recent pictures of what winter can be like on Exmoor demonstrates very well what the moorland farmers have to deal with - and why they need to find homes for foals in the autumn not the following August - or never?!
Basically, we're fed up on Exmoor of the incompetence and obstructions with the current registration process.
The society promotes the fact it is 'voluntary' to register ponies with it. But currently, if you don't, then your pony is actually not considered to be an 'Exmoor pony'. There is no alternative registration process other than this society - which discriminates, ostracises, and excludes - apparently as it wishes.... 
It's about time the EPS acknowledged its mistakes and stopped routing perfectly good Exmoor ponies to slaughter and exclusion from the stud book. And it is about time that EPS officials, trustees, officers and members, who 'diss' the moorland farmers trying to safeguard the true, authentic Exmoor ponies, are held to account. 
Basically, we're fed up with incompetence, obstructions, denigration and an apparent disregard for our ponies. This thread is yet another example of what the Exmoor farmers are up against. 
Why don't you all ask WHY perfectly good moorbred Exmoor ponies, from 2014, who passed inspection and had their DNA verified, haven't been issued with pedigree passports? And why no DNA results have yet been received for an entire foal crop from 2015? 
This needs sorting out. Listen to the farmers, or the herds won't be there. Is this what you want? Less work and more rare breed funding? And more chance of winning rosettes when there are so few Exmoors in the show ring? Sort it out.


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## Peregrine Falcon (4 March 2018)

Dawn, as a commoner in the NF I am interested in your registration process then.  I haven't had any trouble registered any foals that are forest bred.  How should it work with Exmoor ponies?


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## ester (4 March 2018)

The EPS is not routing any ponies to slaughter, it is up to breeders what they do with them, no one else is routing them to slaughter. 

Who does the DNA parentage testing for EPS?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (4 March 2018)

Dawn, this forum is not the place for you to peddle parts of information regarding the 'issues'. 
The whole sorry tale would be a huge help to others reading this thread, but then that wouldn't reflect well, would it?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (4 March 2018)

DawnWestcott said:



			The point of the Exmoor farmers speaking to the media over their concerns about Exmoor Pony Society registrations and passporting issues, was not actually about the (very important) number of purebred Exmoors being excluded from the stud book currently. It was born out of complete frustration about the year after year delays in registering their foals out of PEDIGREE MARES sired by PEDIGREE STALLIONS. There appear to be serious 'anomalies' in the EPS DNA source data. There are also continual 'mistakes' in data capture. Further, herd owners are encouraged by the society to not put foals forward for inspection at all, being told their foals are 'too difficult to register' and 'there is no market for them. 
This is absolute tosh, because, when the source data is correct and paperwork is supplied on time, allowing marketing efforts to successfully find buyers - they are not difficult to register and homes can be found. Foals need to find homes in the autumn - not the following year. And perhaps the recent pictures of what winter can be like on Exmoor demonstrates very well what the moorland farmers have to deal with - and why they need to find homes for foals in the autumn not the following August - or never?!
Basically, we're fed up on Exmoor of the incompetence and obstructions with the current registration process.
The society promotes the fact it is 'voluntary' to register ponies with it. But currently, if you don't, then your pony is actually not considered to be an 'Exmoor pony'. There is no alternative registration process other than this society - which discriminates, ostracises, and excludes - apparently as it wishes.... 
It's about time the EPS acknowledged its mistakes and stopped routing perfectly good Exmoor ponies to slaughter and exclusion from the stud book. And it is about time that EPS officials, trustees, officers and members, who 'diss' the moorland farmers trying to safeguard the true, authentic Exmoor ponies, are held to account. 
Basically, we're fed up with incompetence, obstructions, denigration and an apparent disregard for our ponies. This thread is yet another example of what the Exmoor farmers are up against. 
Why don't you all ask WHY perfectly good moorbred Exmoor ponies, from 2014, who passed inspection and had their DNA verified, haven't been issued with pedigree passports? And why no DNA results have yet been received for an entire foal crop from 2015? 
This needs sorting out. Listen to the farmers, or the herds won't be there. Is this what you want? Less work and more rare breed funding? And more chance of winning rosettes when there are so few Exmoors in the show ring? Sort it out.
		
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Post reported.


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## MotherOfChickens (4 March 2018)

DawnWestcott said:



			It's about time the EPS acknowledged its mistakes and stopped routing perfectly good Exmoor ponies to slaughter and exclusion from the stud book.
		
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the only people responsible for culling those ponies are the ones that own them.


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## ycbm (4 March 2018)

Foals need to find homes in the autumn - not the following year. And perhaps the recent pictures of what winter can be like on Exmoor demonstrates very well what the moorland farmers have to deal with - and why they need to find homes for foals in the autumn not the following August - or never?!
		
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You appear to be openly admitting that you breed animals on the moor that can't survive on the moor. 

Shame on you.


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## scotlass (4 March 2018)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Dawn, this forum is not the place for you to peddle parts of information regarding the 'issues'. 
The whole sorry tale would be a huge help to others reading this thread, but then that wouldn't reflect well, would it?
		
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^ This


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## SeekingSense (4 March 2018)

Im so gratified to see that in all the arious media outlets who have covered this story and on this post, that common sense is prevailing. No matter what the breeder claims to be the hold up (which they seem to be suffering from in virtual isolation and which doesnt seem to be a major factor for anyone else in the breed who actually keep proper records), choosing to cull animals year on year because they cant sell them is bad business at best, abject stupidity at worst.

Still, for the uneducated, it might sell a few more books. And after all, isn't that what this is really all about?  Like someone else said, this talent for attracting media attention with emotive (if less than truthful) stories could be used in so many other ways to benefit the breed and Society. Just a shame its continually misdirected and abused.


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## ester (5 March 2018)

It is a shame, though not terribly unexpected that after taking the time to post that wall of text/rant yesterday Dawn did not stick around to answer any of the very valid questions arising from it. As such I don't think it is going to change anyone's mind on the situation.


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## MotherOfChickens (5 March 2018)

I think the fact that posters can't be silenced on here when they question stuff, which is what happens on other social media under their control, means that answers will probably not be forthcoming. thank heavens there is somewhere there can be questions of breeding practices rather than a hothouse of fans who can't see past the cute foal photos.


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## Antw23uk (5 March 2018)

If someone wants to donate an exmoor foal to me I will happily take one to eventually be my driving pony in old age


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## Heatherbelle (5 March 2018)

Basically, we're fed up on Exmoor of the incompetence and obstructions with the current registration process.

The above is a quote from Dawn Westcott's post.

For those of you who don't know, the vast majority of the owners of herds that run ponies on the moor are quite satisfied with the registration process. By use of the royal 'We' the writer is suggesting that all herds on Exmoor have trouble with registration. This is absolutely untrue. Dawn Westcott does not herself run ponies on the moor, they are all kept inground. There are just a few herds that have trouble with registration, but the answer is NOT to cull the ponies, but to cut down on breeding so many until the market improves. If you can't sell them the answer is simple - don't breed them!!


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## Laika (5 March 2018)

I did wonder how long it would take for her to air her views...


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## Cecile (5 March 2018)

Heatherbelle said:



			Basically, we're fed up on Exmoor of the incompetence and obstructions with the current registration process.

The above is a quote from Dawn Westcott's post.

For those of you who don't know, the vast majority of the owners of herds that run ponies on the moor are quite satisfied with the registration process. By use of the royal 'We' the writer is suggesting that all herds on Exmoor have trouble with registration. This is absolutely untrue. Dawn Westcott does not herself run ponies on the moor, they are all kept inground. There are just a few herds that have trouble with registration, but the answer is NOT to cull the ponies, but to cut down on breeding so many until the market improves. If you can't sell them the answer is simple - don't breed them!!
		
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Wise words ^^


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## Spartacus (5 March 2018)

Heatherbelle said:



			Basically, we're fed up on Exmoor of the incompetence and obstructions with the current registration process.

The above is a quote from Dawn Westcott's post.

For those of you who don't know, the vast majority of the owners of herds that run ponies on the moor are quite satisfied with the registration process. By use of the royal 'We' the writer is suggesting that all herds on Exmoor have trouble with registration. This is absolutely untrue. Dawn Westcott does not herself run ponies on the moor, they are all kept inground. There are just a few herds that have trouble with registration, but the answer is NOT to cull the ponies, but to cut down on breeding so many until the market improves. If you can't sell them the answer is simple - don't breed them!!
		
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Doing some research on the number of Herds on Exmoor, why is it that, according to the TV coverage, only two Herds of the 21 have this problem. Is it because of mismanagement by these two Herds, ie: not getting all there stock DNAd before the stud book closed, then along comes a saviour who blames the EPS for the short coming of these two Herds.


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## Daughter of the Moor (5 March 2018)

Heatherbelle said:



			Basically, we're fed up on Exmoor of the incompetence and obstructions with the current registration process.

The above is a quote from Dawn Westcott's post.

For those of you who don't know, the vast majority of the owners of herds that run ponies on the moor are quite satisfied with the registration process. By use of the royal 'We' the writer is suggesting that all herds on Exmoor have trouble with registration. This is absolutely untrue. Dawn Westcott does not herself run ponies on the moor, they are all kept inground. There are just a few herds that have trouble with registration, but the answer is NOT to cull the ponies, but to cut down on breeding so many until the market improves. If you can't sell them the answer is simple - don't breed them!!
		
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Well said Heatherbelle, could not have out it better myself.


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## Daughter of the Moor (5 March 2018)

Spartacus said:



			Doing some research on the number of Herds on Exmoor, why is it that, according to the TV coverage, only two Herds of the 21 have this problem. Is it because of mismanagement by these two Herds, ie: not getting all there stock DNAd before the stud book closed, then along comes a saviour who blames the EPS for the short coming of these two Herds.
		
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The majority of the free living herds on Exmoor are carefully managed, with great care taken over selection of breeding stock and identification of the progeny to the correct parents. A minority of free living herd owners do not seem to be able to grasp that in order to be registered in a stud book the animals must be of known parentage and seem to think that as long as it is brown and has a mealy muzzle that is enough. They do not seem to comprehend that to do that would undo years of hard work by a dedicated group of breeders who have ensured the continuation of all the bloodlines within the breed structure. Frankly, it breaks my heart to see a breed I have loved for many years being threatened by one manipulative person..


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## Heatherbelle (5 March 2018)

Daughter of the Moor said:



			The majority of the free living herds on Exmoor are carefully managed, with great care taken over selection of breeding stock and identification of the progeny to the correct parents. A minority of free living herd owners do not seem to be able to grasp that in order to be registered in a stud book the animals must be of known parentage and seem to think that as long as it is brown and has a mealy muzzle that is enough. They do not seem to comprehend that to do that would undo years of hard work by a dedicated group of breeders who have ensured the continuation of all the bloodlines within the breed structure. Frankly, it breaks my heart to see a breed I have loved for many years being threatened by one manipulative person..
		
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That is the situation in a nutshell. This whole business has been brought into the spotlight to try yet again to discredit the EPS  by someone with a personal vendetta.


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## Heatherbelle (5 March 2018)

Chinchilla said:



			Thank you MOC, I had a look at this too - http://people4ponies.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/brendon-fair.html
Pics aren't great but from what I can tell from that thread you shared and the blog post that's the clyde x exie foals and their sire. Makes me wonder what became of the foals...poor little things didn't ask to come into a world with such idiots did they?  
I hope they didn't end up suffering somewhere or being dumped, no pony regardless of breeding deserves that, but I do feel no one with sense would want such a bonkers cross, particularly one with potentially dodgy conformation. 
Breeding with such a size differential is just stupid - even doing it the other way round, as here.
		
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Thought you might be interested to know that I am told the colt was sold to a private buyer for£350. They have nothing but trouble healthwise with him, infected gelding site, massive worm burden which they cannot shift, and very feral. Just what I've been told.


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## Dave's Mam (5 March 2018)

Heatherbelle said:



			Thought you might be interested to know that I am told the colt was sold to a private buyer for£350. They have nothing but trouble healthwise with him, infected gelding site, massive worm burden which they cannot shift, and very feral. Just what I've been told.
		
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Poor horse.


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## DawnWestcott (6 March 2018)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Dawn, this forum is not the place for you to peddle parts of information regarding the 'issues'. 
The whole sorry tale would be a huge help to others reading this thread, but then that wouldn't reflect well, would it?
		
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Fuzzy Furry what a weird thing to say. Which EPS person are you - why hide behind the fake name? Although the tone of your posts is tiresomely familiar. I thought Id made things pretty clear in my post about the ongoing issues in trying to register moorland Exmoor foals. And no, it doesnt reflect well at all and needs sorting out.


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## DawnWestcott (6 March 2018)

Heatherbelle said:



			That is the situation in a nutshell. This whole business has been brought into the spotlight to try yet again to discredit the EPS  by someone with a personal vendetta.
		
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That is SO misleading and disrespectful to the Exmoor moorland farmers Heatherbelle! With EPS issues in identifying pedigree registered parents; failing to issue pedigree passports to foals that passed inspection and were DNA verified; failing to confirm DNA and apparently losing samples years after being sent them; incorrectly recording mare and foal combinations at inspection - and missing ponies out of data capture - its clear there ARE big problems with EPS management and processes. Thats not a vendetta - its expressing concerns about Exmoors whose lives are put in jeopardy and ruined as a result. Perhaps time you stopped dissing the farmers/land owners asking for improvements and started researching the actual facts?


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## HashRouge (6 March 2018)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Post reported.
		
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On what grounds? You can't report someone just because you disagree with what they say.


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## ester (6 March 2018)

Oh good you are back, how interesting that you picked up on those two posts to reply to but have failed to respond to posts that asked direct questions about the situation............ 

Hashrouge I imagine TFF thinks it swings quite close to the defamation rules on the forum.


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## Casey76 (6 March 2018)

Funny how certain threads drag people out of the woodwork isn&#8217;t it...


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## The Fuzzy Furry (6 March 2018)

ester said:



			Oh good you are back, how interesting that you picked up on those two posts to reply to but have failed to respond to posts that asked direct questions about the situation............ 

Hashrouge I imagine TFF thinks it swings quite close to the defamation rules on the forum.
		
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Yup Ester, the OP has slandered on most places & just keeps on going :rolleyes3:


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## MotherOfChickens (6 March 2018)

so Dawn, there you are chucking your toys out on FB.again. 

I do wonder why you think everyone who disagrees with you is from the EPS. People don't have to have a vested interest to disagree with your interpretation of events or point out why certain breeders might have a delay in registering stock. I would of course do it on your page, but I am blocked and have been for years for discussing something completely different to this. I am not an EPS member, so your daft threats on FB about the EPS code of conduct on social media don't mean anything. 

This was a news story that you orchestrated and that means you have to deal with any criticism of it.

again, the only people responsible for culling those ponies are the people that own them, nothing you say alters that basic fact.


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## ester (6 March 2018)

oh good grief, what nonsense! A bit pot kettle isn't it? ' some of this is particularly nasty and unreasonable and is negatively affecting people's reputations '


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## gracenco (6 March 2018)

I have read on here about disrespect shown to Exmoor farmers? In H&H this week a statement by an Exmoor farmer read as follows  "this Autumn I slaughtered 10 after weaning. If you have to keep a freshly weaned foal for more than a month or two, it doesn't look right for sale" how sad to read this when in actual fact, a weaned foal given correct feeding, worming, basically, the care and attention appropriate to age will look more than right for sale. How can a farmer who deliberately brings so many foals into the world, opt for slaughter rather than take responsibility by providing their basic needs, command respect?

In the same issue, another Exmoor farmer is described as a romantic,  runs a large number of ponies and very beautiful they are too, however problems arise at registration time owing to the fact that so many breeding mares and foals create difficulties in identifying correct parentage, the same romantic farmer then stated on television his foals would be shipped off for slaughter as it would appear he begrudges the care, attention and expense involved in keeping foals he has bred.

We all know, owning and especially breeding horses and ponies is and always has been expensive, summer is a good time when with ample grazing ponies can be self sufficient, come autumn and winter, costs escalate with additional feed etc especially a growing foal. By deciding to breed from any animal there is a duty of care, the future wellbeing of a young life should be priority.

There are far too many horses and ponies being bred nationwide, horse welfare charities are stretched to their limits so, for the good of the Exmoor Pony, why not consider   - reducing numbers to a manageable level, foals who may need to be run on awaiting suitable homes, will not prove a financial burden and can be provided with required food, shelter etc. without being considered a problem.

If wishing to breed ponies eligible for full entry to stud book &#8211; reducing numbers would aid better record keeping, thus foals presented for registration should not encounter delays due to doubts relating to correct parentage etc.
Finally, by working together, (already a great spirit of camaraderie) if one farmer is in the fortunate position with all foals sold, he could pass on sales enquiry to his fellow breeder, surely of benefit to all concerned, smaller numbers are much more likely to have buyers waiting.


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## Laika (6 March 2018)

Find it quite ironic that she's linked to the social media rulings in the EPS Policy regarding anything that could be "defamatory". 

You cannot call something "Cyber Bullying" when in fact you're making sweeping statements about a society that are working incredibly hard to keep the integrity of a breed. You're bound to get people's backs up if such statements are made when people are incredibly passionate about their animals. If you don't want to receive a backlash, then perhaps don't make such outlandish statements in the first place.


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## Dave's Mam (6 March 2018)

gracenco said:



			I have read on here about disrespect shown to Exmoor farmers? In H&H this week a statement by an Exmoor farmer read as follows  "this Autumn I slaughtered 10 after weaning. If you have to keep a freshly weaned foal for more than a month or two, it doesn't look right for sale" how sad to read this when in actual fact, a weaned foal given correct feeding, worming, basically, the care and attention appropriate to age will look more than right for sale. How can a farmer who deliberately brings so many foals into the world, opt for slaughter rather than take responsibility by providing their basic needs, command respect?

In the same issue, another Exmoor farmer is described as a romantic,  runs a large number of ponies and very beautiful they are too, however problems arise at registration time owing to the fact that so many breeding mares and foals create difficulties in identifying correct parentage, the same romantic farmer then stated on television his foals would be shipped off for slaughter as it would appear he begrudges the care, attention and expense involved in keeping foals he has bred.

We all know, owning and especially breeding horses and ponies is and always has been expensive, summer is a good time when with ample grazing ponies can be self sufficient, come autumn and winter, costs escalate with additional feed etc especially a growing foal. By deciding to breed from any animal there is a duty of care, the future wellbeing of a young life should be priority.

There are far too many horses and ponies being bred nationwide, horse welfare charities are stretched to their limits so, for the good of the Exmoor Pony, why not consider   - reducing numbers to a manageable level, foals who may need to be run on awaiting suitable homes, will not prove a financial burden and can be provided with required food, shelter etc. without being considered a problem.

If wishing to breed ponies eligible for full entry to stud book &#8211; reducing numbers would aid better record keeping, thus foals presented for registration should not encounter delays due to doubts relating to correct parentage etc.
Finally, by working together, (already a great spirit of camaraderie) if one farmer is in the fortunate position with all foals sold, he could pass on sales enquiry to his fellow breeder, surely of benefit to all concerned, smaller numbers are much more likely to have buyers waiting.
		
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Well said.


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## Heatherbelle (6 March 2018)

DawnWestcott said:



			That is SO misleading and disrespectful to the Exmoor moorland farmers Heatherbelle! With EPS &#8216;issues&#8217; in identifying pedigree registered parents; failing to issue pedigree passports to foals that passed inspection and were DNA verified; failing to confirm DNA and apparently &#8216;losing&#8217; samples years after being sent them; incorrectly recording mare and foal combinations at inspection - and missing ponies out of data capture - it&#8217;s clear there ARE big problems with EPS management and processes. That&#8217;s not a &#8216;vendetta&#8217; - it&#8217;s expressing concerns about Exmoors whose lives are put in jeopardy and ruined as a result. Perhaps time you stopped dissing the farmers/land owners asking for improvements and started researching the actual facts?
		
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How frustrating not to be able to delete posts you don't agree with!! Not misleading and disrespectful at all. 'Dissing'?? Not sure I quite understand this word!!  As I pointed out in a previous post, there are very few farmers who have this problem with registrations. The number 21 was mentioned in another post, and out of those 21 I believe there would be at least 15, if not more, who are perfectly happy with EPS management. But you are straying from the point of this thread. If the farmers who have problems with dna results for whatever reason are unable to keep any foals for more than a month, which was stated by one farmer, surely it's time they reduced the number of foals bred, so that they are able to run on any foals that may have dna problems. And as for the breeder who openly admitted they had disposed of 60 ponies, they should be hanging their head in shame. What a shocking thing to do.

Footnote : This thread would not have been started if you Dawn had not splashed this issue all over tv, the press and social media. So if anything defamatory or misleading has been said, any lies told, any insults thrown, or there has been cyber bullying or mobbing, then you have only yourself to blame.


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## meleeka (6 March 2018)

Well said Gracenco. Irresponsible breeding doesnt just apply to travellers.  Theyd do well to have a look at the New Forest ponies. Theyve gone to great lengths to reduce the numbers bred each year and to maintain the quality by only allowing selected stallions to run on the forest.  This seems like one of those situations that just because you can, doesnt mean you should.

Im also presuming it costs money to shoot and dispose of foal? Actually I probably dont want to know the answer to that one


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## Smallbrownpony (6 March 2018)

The simple, most humane, most cost effective strategy to deal with what is nothing more than an overproduction of in registerable stock is to stop breeding! If you cannot guarantee a home for any animal that you breed, if you cannot feed it, if you cannot easily obtain a society passport because your herd records are not up to scratch take your stallion off the moor until you are able to meet the needs of any stock you produce. A society cannot be held accountable or held to ransom for any subsequent welfare issues due to over saturation of the market. There has always been culling of unwanted colts. Just stop breeding them!


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## ester (6 March 2018)

This is what I don't understand, if you have made sure that your mare and stallion are on the database then a parental DNA confirmation will be relatively simple and quick (which seems to be what the EPS is saying). 

It is only if you don't know the breeding which means the database has to be searched to try and find a match that there is a delay, which makes total sense but is also avoidable if your herd is sorted and your breeding well managed. 

The breeder in the H+H who says that a foal isn't in a saleable state 1/2 months post weaning just has me gobsmacked quite frankly.


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## Smallbrownpony (6 March 2018)

I would hope that that the appropriate welfare organisation are made aware of a breeder who is happy to state in the national press that they are unable to keep a foal in reasonable condition for sale between weaning and 4-8 weeks afterwards. That is an appalling thing to admit to and should be investigated.


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## Amymay (6 March 2018)

How utterly depressing.


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## Cecile (6 March 2018)

amymay said:



			How utterly depressing.
		
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Yes precisely....... ^^

9 years ago people were quite excited about the Think Before You Breed Campaign, nothing much seems to have changed with some breeders when reading this thread

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...-BHS-Announces-Responsible-Breeding-Campaign&


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## dominobrown (7 March 2018)

Smallbrownpony said:



			I would hope that that the appropriate welfare organisation are made aware of a breeder who is happy to state in the national press that they are unable to keep a foal in reasonable condition for sale between weaning and 4-8 weeks afterwards. That is an appalling thing to admit to and should be investigated.
		
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This.... I am sorry I cannot understand why a pony (a hardy native pony at that) would look so poor after weaning. I have worked in thoroughbred bloodstock and weaning and taking to a sale is perfectly normal, and if you go to a bloodstock sale there will be very very few "poor" weanlings. 
I currently have an arab that I have weaned for an owner and in 4 to 8 weeks time it will be starting in hand showing... again, not poor at all.
What the hell is this farmer doing... and if thats is his knowledge of ponies maybe he would be best just getting rid of the lot of them!!


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## DawnWestcott (7 March 2018)

There are other factors:
- DNA hasn't been collected from all mares
- DNA is collected and lost
- Mares are misidentified
- Mares can't be identified (can't read brands and either not microchipped or microchipped has migrated/failed)
- low marker DNA tests can't successfully distinguish between closely bred herds
- original DNA database source data is incomplete/incorrect
- mare and foal combinations correctly presented by data recorded wrong (mix-ups and missed out ponies)
- Data is recorded at all on DNA samples
- DNA samples mixed up
- DNA samples corrupted
- Failure to issue pedigree passports for foals that passed inspection and were DNA verified
- Failure to supply DNA results years later
- Data recorded incorrectly on passports and in stud book
And so on - believe me, all this happens and this is what we are complaining about.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (7 March 2018)

DawnWestcott said:



			There are other factors:
- DNA hasn't been collected from all mares
- DNA is collected and lost
- Mares are misidentified
- Mares can't be identified (can't read brands and either not microchipped or microchipped has migrated/failed)
- low marker DNA tests can't successfully distinguish between closely bred herds
- original DNA database source data is incomplete/incorrect
- mare and foal combinations correctly presented by data recorded wrong (mix-ups and missed out ponies)
- Data is recorded at all on DNA samples
- DNA samples mixed up
- DNA samples corrupted
- Failure to issue pedigree passports for foals that passed inspection and were DNA verified
- Failure to supply DNA results years later
- Data recorded incorrectly on passports and in stud book
And so on - believe me, all this happens* and this is what we are complaining about*.
		
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'We' need to step back then & determine why the many many issues mentioned, are not experienced by most others? If 'we' put our house in order, didn't cross breed, didn't use different entires, didn't actually know what mare was which (and I could go on!) then 'we' wouldn't need to keep on being a complete pain in the butt in the media, eh?

For the purposes of above, my 'we' means the OP.

OP must find it very difficult on here, as you she unable to edit or delete any responses that don't suit, hey ho


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## Amymay (7 March 2018)

DawnWestcott said:



			There are other factors:
- DNA hasn't been collected from all mares
- DNA is collected and lost
- Mares are misidentified
- Mares can't be identified (can't read brands and either not microchipped or microchipped has migrated/failed)
- low marker DNA tests can't successfully distinguish between closely bred herds
- original DNA database source data is incomplete/incorrect
- mare and foal combinations correctly presented by data recorded wrong (mix-ups and missed out ponies)
- Data is recorded at all on DNA samples
- DNA samples mixed up
- DNA samples corrupted
- Failure to issue pedigree passports for foals that passed inspection and were DNA verified
- Failure to supply DNA results years later
- Data recorded incorrectly on passports and in stud book
And so on - believe me, all this happens and this is what we are complaining about.
		
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So why are those of you who are experiencing these problems continuing to breed????


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## DD (7 March 2018)

amymay said:



			So why are those of you who are experiencing these problems continuing to breed????
		
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ha-ha becaue they are breeders and its what they want to do. Some people just want to breed regardless.


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## Amymay (7 March 2018)

Downton Dame said:



			ha-ha becaue they are breeders and its what they want to do. Some people just want to breed regardless.
		
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No, I don't believe that. No one in their right mind breeds to shoot it at 5 months old.


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## ester (7 March 2018)

DawnWestcott said:



			There are other factors:
- DNA hasn't been collected from all mares
- DNA is collected and lost
- Mares are misidentified
- Mares can't be identified (can't read brands and either not microchipped or microchipped has migrated/failed)
- low marker DNA tests can't successfully distinguish between closely bred herds
- original DNA database source data is incomplete/incorrect
- mare and foal combinations correctly presented by data recorded wrong (mix-ups and missed out ponies)
- Data is recorded at all on DNA samples
- DNA samples mixed up
- DNA samples corrupted
- Failure to issue pedigree passports for foals that passed inspection and were DNA verified
- Failure to supply DNA results years later
- Data recorded incorrectly on passports and in stud book
And so on - believe me, all this happens and this is what we are complaining about.
		
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Which is why I asked who was doing the testing, ie is it an issue with who they have contracted to do the work, or do you only hold EPS responsible for those problems. 

'- DNA hasn't been collected from all mares' this problem here, surely is the breeders problem, if you have mares that DNA hasn't been collected from, get collecting! 

'Mares can't be identified (can't read brands and either not microchipped or microchipped has migrated/failed)' - again why hasn't the owner of the mare made sure she can be identified?

'- Data is recorded at all on DNA samples' - I don't understand what you mean by this?


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## Spartacus (7 March 2018)

Microchips do not migrate, they are injected into the nuchal ligament where tissue grows over them preventing them from migrating.
As for the restof your post, Have you got irrefutable evidence of this and can we see this anywhere other than on your various pages which in all honesty is your own view and not shared by any others, from what I can see.


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## SpottyMare (7 March 2018)

So the gist of all this is...  (Someone = the same 1 person)

Someone who was removed from the EPS uses the media to attack the EPS...
Someone supports the breeding of exmoor mares to non exmoor stallions while claiming to keep the breed pure...
Someone supports indiscriminate and over breeding by 'breeders' who haven't kept their records in order and then complain when the EPS won't just issue a passport...
Someone supports the breeding of foals just to be euthanised because the breeder can't be arsed to keep them for an extra couple of months...  

Just to clarify, the only contact I have with exmoors is that I share a yard with someone who keeps them and they all seem to get fat on fresh air.  So if the breeder is in such penury that they can't keep a few exmoor weanlings around, what the **** are they doing breeding in the first place?

I am somewhat confused...


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## Heatherbelle (7 March 2018)

Spartacus said:



			As for the restof your post, Have you got irrefutable evidence of this and can we see this anywhere other than on your various pages which in all honesty is your own view and not shared by any others, from what I can see.
		
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The only view allowed on the 'various pages'  is the view of the page admin. All other views are deleted and the posters banned, as has happened to countless folk who have attempted to to contribute to various issues.


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## Velcrobum (7 March 2018)

SpottyMare said:



			So the gist of all this is...  (Someone = the same 1 person)

Someone who was removed from the EPS uses the media to attack the EPS...
Someone supports the breeding of exmoor mares to non exmoor stallions while claiming to keep the breed pure...
Someone supports indiscriminate and over breeding by 'breeders' who haven't kept their records in order and then complain when the EPS won't just issue a passport...
Someone supports the breeding of foals just to be euthanised because the breeder can't be arsed to keep them for an extra couple of months...  

Just to clarify, the only contact I have with exmoors is that I share a yard with someone who keeps them and they all seem to get fat on fresh air.  So if the breeder is in such penury that they can't keep a few exmoor weanlings around, what the **** are they doing breeding in the first place?

I am somewhat confused...
		
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^^^^^^ THIS in spades


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## ester (7 March 2018)

^^^ yup again, and I have no contact with exmoors at all, I rebroke one in about 17 years ago so certainly not any sort of EPS mole.


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## Chinchilla (7 March 2018)

deleted don't want to be attacked by DW


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## Heatherbelle (7 March 2018)

Chinchilla said:



			deleted don't want to be attacked by DW
		
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No-one can attack you on here!!! We are all entitled to our opinions on the subject of whether breeders should be culling foals!


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## Chinchilla (7 March 2018)

Heatherbelle said:



			No-one can attack you on here!!! We are all entitled to our opinions on the subject of whether breeders should be culling foals!
		
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When she slanders me off on FB I will hold you lot responsible then eh  

But what I said was, "This thread makes me incredibly incredibly sad; after all it's the ponies who will suffer in the end for it. People need to take some flipping responsibility." 

I would like to add - as has been reiterated many many times already - it is not the EPS sending ponies to slaughter, it is their owners, unless you want to tell me EPS members (Fuzzy Furry, do you have something to 'fess up!?  ) have been sneaking onto the property of this "breeder" and shooting their "purebred" ponies. No one who is passionate about a breed is going to be sending it to slaughter; this stinks of a want for publicity and drama. But if the horse world wanted drama, we'd read the tabloids - dragging a worthy society's name through the mud is just underhand and unnecessary. As a longtime lover of all native breeds and supporter for those who work to better them as a breed, I do not for one second think the EPS are responsible for the registration troubles of this "breeder" of "purebreds". It's worth pointing out, too, that yes, the breed standard of the exmoor pony does not allow ponies who are too pale or have conformational deficiencies but an ethical breeder wouldn't be worried about such things as they would be breeding healthy, happy, true-to-type animals who would in the end be more saleable and have better future prospects as a result, which benefits everyone: breeders, buyers, and of course the beautiful beasts themselves. 
I applaud what the New Forest Pony Breeding and Cattle Society have done in the New Forest and definitely think that this is a scheme that societies should consider rolling out elsewhere where there are free living ponies. Bealieau Road Sales have also implemented a minimum bid of 21 guineas on ponies, this safeguards their future to a certain extent as people are less willing to abuse/neglect animals who are worth more - happily gone are the days when a New Forest colt could be bought for 5 gns, and in my (albeit fairly worthless) opinion, this should be the case elsewhere, too - for instance on Exmoor. 

The current figure of horses "at risk" of "abuse, neglect or abandonment"  stands at 7,000 according to the BHS; slaughter prices for one well kept horse however are £400 per head. So in this equine market climate I think breeders really do need to be asking themselves, should they be producing foals at all? 
I could go on and on on this topic to be honest but I won't, don't see the point, though I will say that DW blaming the foals' tragic deaths on the EPS would be like me blaming the death of our unregistered shitland (if he died but he is going to outlive me I swear lol) on the Shetland Society - especially as she also keeps going on about how breeders are unable to get their ponies registered, in which case the EPS has even less to do with them than if they were true purebreds!


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## Dave's Mam (7 March 2018)

Well said Chinchilla.  Heartfelt.


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## Heatherbelle (8 March 2018)

Chinchilla said:



			When she slanders me off on FB I will hold you lot responsible then eh  

But what I said was, "This thread makes me incredibly incredibly sad; after all it's the ponies who will suffer in the end for it. People need to take some flipping responsibility." 

I would like to add - as has been reiterated many many times already - it is not the EPS sending ponies to slaughter, it is their owners, unless you want to tell me EPS members (Fuzzy Furry, do you have something to 'fess up!?  ) have been sneaking onto the property of this "breeder" and shooting their "purebred" ponies. No one who is passionate about a breed is going to be sending it to slaughter; this stinks of a want for publicity and drama. But if the horse world wanted drama, we'd read the tabloids - dragging a worthy society's name through the mud is just underhand and unnecessary. As a longtime lover of all native breeds and supporter for those who work to better them as a breed, I do not for one second think the EPS are responsible for the registration troubles of this "breeder" of "purebreds".!
		
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Don't worry, Chinchilla, we've all been through the slander process and lived to tell the tale!!!

A brilliant post, echoing the thoughts of us all.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (8 March 2018)

Lol Chinchilla, nowt needed to fess up to here 
Am willing to give DW a run for her mud slinging tho


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## gracenco (8 March 2018)

DawnWestcott said:



			There are other factors:
- DNA hasn't been collected from all mares
- DNA is collected and lost
- Mares are misidentified
- Mares can't be identified (can't read brands and either not microchipped or microchipped has migrated/failed)
- low marker DNA tests can't successfully distinguish between closely bred herds
- original DNA database source data is incomplete/incorrect
- mare and foal combinations correctly presented by data recorded wrong (mix-ups and missed out ponies)
- Data is recorded at all on DNA samples
- DNA samples mixed up
- DNA samples corrupted
- Failure to issue pedigree passports for foals that passed inspection and were DNA verified
- Failure to supply DNA results years later
- Data recorded incorrectly on passports and in stud book
And so on - believe me, all this happens and this is what we are complaining about.
		
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If all that is written here is actually true, then it is an absolute disgrace!

HOWEVER I find it very hard to believe that an organisation which has existed for nearly a century and within this time has progressed, managed everything involved with registration, the stud book etc. very well, should suddenly become so inept? The issues outlined here seem to affect a tiny minority, the same minority have been complaining about their problems for the past few years. Other free living moorland herds who are responsibly managed, who have carefully thought out breeding programs, who do not produce large numbers of foals without thought to their future do not appear to encounter registration problems, so why such a difference?
I am sure the EPS is not unique in that it will set down conditions as to what is required for entry into a stud book, all pedigree livestock will have guidance/regulations which need to be adhered to, the basic requirement for entry into any stud book is surely going to be known parentage and both sire and dam registered with relevant society. In days gone by it may have been satisfactory to have a vague idea who parents might be however nowadays, perhaps, possibly or probably are no longer acceptable answers to the parentage question. If an accurate stud book is to be maintained it is essential that correct information is provided.


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## Dave's Mam (10 March 2018)

& startlingly, there's a new £5000 crowdfunder to sustain the ponies.


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## limestonelil (11 March 2018)

And another book for sale perhaps?


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## Chinchilla (11 March 2018)

It's actually getting to be a joke right now ..... DW is bringing proper breeders into disrepute (because guess what, proper breeders don't need to crowdfund what they are doing, mind blowing stuff eh.....)


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## Yorkshire Dales (11 March 2018)

This is the third crowd funding she's done.  The last two brought in £2000 each. Now shes getting greedy and has upped the ante.  She is not a charity so is not audited by anyone, so can do what she likes with the money. Does she also not realise that by giving the disreputable breeders a lifeline they will continue breeding  numbers not quality then expect this self appointed Exmoor pony expert to save the day.  If she can't afford this hobby, I suggest she cuts her numbers  considerably and pays her own bills. At present, she's nothing more than a pony hoarder.


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## Spartacus (11 March 2018)

If one can't afford to keep their ponies without crowdfunding, then perhaps she should think of cutting her cloth to suit her pocket


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## Cecile (11 March 2018)

Dave's Mam said:



			& startlingly, there's a new £5000 crowdfunder to sustain the ponies.
		
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I don't fully understand crowdfunding, is there a link to this? I would like to know what this money being asked for is to be used for

I know there was a crowdfunding for someone who died a pauper and the locals wanted to help out, the limit they set was exactly the amount to pay for the funeral but nothing else


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## Dave's Mam (11 March 2018)

Cecile said:



			I don't fully understand crowdfunding, is there a link to this? I would like to know what this money being asked for is to be used for

I know there was a crowdfunding for someone who died a pauper and the locals wanted to help out, the limit they set was exactly the amount to pay for the funeral but nothing else
		
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https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/exmoor-pony-project


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## Cecile (11 March 2018)

Dave's Mam said:



https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/exmoor-pony-project

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Thank you


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## Heatherbelle (11 March 2018)

There are in excess of 30 Exmoors on this farm. Many of them were bought/rescued as foals from moorland herds to socialise, in the belief that handled ponies would sell better than unhandled ponies straight off the moor. In some cases homes were found, but i believe some are still there 4 years later, and yet she is STILL breeding from her own stock. I don't expect someone else to pay for my ponies' upkeep, but it seems that some people have no qualms about doing so. I believe I am right in saying that if you contribute more than a certain amount to crowdfunding you can demand to see how your money is spent. How she can have the barefaced affrontery to ask for £5,000 to keep her own ponies is beyond me.


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## Dave's Mam (11 March 2018)

Heatherbelle said:



			There are in excess of 30 Exmoors on this farm. Many of them were bought/rescued as foals from moorland herds to socialise, in the belief that handled ponies would sell better than unhandled ponies straight off the moor. In some cases homes were found, but i believe some are still there 4 years later, and yet she is STILL breeding from her own stock. I don't expect someone else to pay for my ponies' upkeep, but it seems that some people have no qualms about doing so. I believe I am right in saying that if you contribute more than a certain amount to crowdfunding you can demand to see how your money is spent. How she can have the barefaced affrontery to ask for £5,000 to keep her own ponies is beyond me.
		
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& £2000 just at the end of last year for the Cremello X foal's keep.


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## Chinchilla (11 March 2018)

Yorkshire Dales said:



			...she's nothing more than a pony hoarder.
		
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PREACH ! ! ! 

Side note - Hey,  any one fancy giving me £10,000 to breed my New Forest to the mongrel thing with 4 legs and balls next door?  I mean, that's rare breed conservation ain't it? 
(I'm joking...)


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## Chinchilla (11 March 2018)

Oh dear god though, that crowdfunding spiel makes me cringe so hard - "...we're improving breeding stock..." 
Um? Since when is outcrossing rare breeds with random mongrels just because they happen to be a pretty colour improving the gene pool?   
I need to leave this thread... I think there's steam coming out of my ears.


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## Amymay (11 March 2018)

Yorkshire Dales said:



			This is the third crowd funding she's done.  The last two brought in £2000 each. Now shes getting greedy and has upped the ante.  She is not a charity so is not audited by anyone, so can do what she likes with the money. Does she also not realise that by giving the disreputable breeders a lifeline they will continue breeding  numbers not quality then expect this self appointed Exmoor pony expert to save the day.  If she can't afford this hobby, I suggest she cuts her numbers  considerably and pays her own bills. At present, she's nothing more than a pony hoarder.
		
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The tax man would probably be interested.


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## Yorkshire Dales (11 March 2018)

I don't understand your statement chinchilla...PREACH ?


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## Dave's Mam (11 March 2018)

Yorkshire Dales said:



			I don't understand your statement chinchilla...PREACH ?
		
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I think it was a resounding agreement.


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## honetpot (11 March 2018)

Its income, so unless its a charity or a not for profit organisation, with books like Hillside, its taxable. If she is being paid by the NPO its should be in the books.


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## scotlass (11 March 2018)

Another day, and another article sent to a newspaper
http://www.wildponywhispering.co.uk/moorland-exmoor-ponies-in-crisis-full-article


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## Dave's Mam (11 March 2018)

No words.


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## Dave's Mam (11 March 2018)

Dawn, is all this income, targetted at 7 thousand pounds in 6 months declared?  Just asking.


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## DabDab (12 March 2018)

"DNA parentage testing needs to be suspended as a registration requirement, while the EPS gets its database and service up to standard."

QUOTE from Dawn. 

So just register any old foal as purebred then eh?


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## Heatherbelle (12 March 2018)

scotlass said:



			Another day, and another article sent to a newspaper
http://www.wildponywhispering.co.uk/moorland-exmoor-ponies-in-crisis-full-article

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There is a space beneath this article for comments. I have done so.


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## meleeka (12 March 2018)

Perhaps DEFRA needs to take over registrations, or provide alternative registration, for Exmoor ponies.

Perhaps they should, then theyd know all about incompetence


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## Cecile (12 March 2018)

meleeka said:



			&#8220;Perhaps DEFRA needs to take over registrations, or provide alternative registration, for Exmoor ponies&#8221;.

Perhaps they should, then they&#8217;d know all about incompetence 

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People don't call it Deathra for nothing


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## Chinchilla (12 March 2018)

Dave's Mam said:



			I think it was a resounding agreement.
		
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Yes Sorry Yorkshire Dales! Resounding agreement is right, apologies for not making myself clear!


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## Yorkshire Dales (12 March 2018)

Apology accepted chinchilla!


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## Heatherbelle (12 March 2018)

I see those of us who have posted on this thread are being accused of 'vile remarks' and 'character assassination'. There have been no vile remarks made on this thread, only the truth, and as for character assassination, there is plenty of that on other pages!! As I mentioned before, this thread would never have been started if the tv channels and numerous publications hadn't been fed false information in an attempt to further discredit the EPS. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen!!


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## Cecile (12 March 2018)

Heatherbelle said:



			I see those of us who have posted on this thread are being accused of 'vile remarks' and 'character assassination'. There have been no vile remarks made on this thread, only the truth, and as for character assassination, there is plenty of that on other pages!! As I mentioned before, this thread would never have been started if the tv channels and numerous publications hadn't been fed false information in an attempt to further discredit the EPS. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen!!
		
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Can you put a link to the above?  I've posted on this thread so I am intrigued - mind you if its on FaceAche I doubt I will be able to read it unless the public are allowed to read it but not make comments - technology escapes me


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## Yorkshire Dales (12 March 2018)

Make a comment Cecile...you'll be lucky.  The only ones allowed to comment are those who think Dawn Westcott is the Messiah, believe every word that comes forth from her mouth and/or cough up to her just giving ....again.


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## ester (12 March 2018)

what interests me is the page has 5.8k likes... there is a distinct lack of comments on anything she posts.


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## Cecile (12 March 2018)

Yorkshire Dales said:



			Make a comment Cecile...you'll be lucky.  The only ones allowed to comment are those who think Dawn Westcott is the Messiah, believe every word that comes forth from her mouth and/or cough up to her just giving ....again.
		
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Oh I see, now some of the comments on here make sense about being banned on there or not being able to post anything that isn't accepted/liked, I checked out the books on Amazon so I now understand that bit, its like a puzzle for someone who had never heard of all this Kerfuffle prior to this thread


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## Cecile (12 March 2018)

ester said:



			what interests me is the page has 5.8k likes... there is a distinct lack of comments on anything she posts.
		
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Can you like your own page or comments?


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## Yorkshire Dales (12 March 2018)

She goes by so many names half the comments are probably her.  I think you can like your own posts..


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## ester (12 March 2018)

you can definitely like your own posts and comments, always an odd thing to do. 

TBH Cecile when it does come up I do need a bit of piecing help, I did not realise who was involved the first posting of this story I saw (on facebook) so took it at face value.


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## Heatherbelle (12 March 2018)

Cecile, I believe it is posted on Another Page !!! You can probably see it but probably won't be able to comment - unless you are among the Favoured Few, or you agree with everything said on said page. Most of us are banned from commenting cos we didn't agree


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## Yorkshire Dales (12 March 2018)

If you want to join any of her pages you get the Spanish Inquisition. Are you a member if a certain page, are you friends with certain people,  heaven help you if you answer in the affirmative to either question.


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