# How to gate price of cardento foal please!!



## jalisco (27 August 2013)

As heading says really- filly foal correct good paces , dark bay do nice colour, by cardento out of a 4 star select mare who's had 2 or more double clears at 3 star fei classes abroad. Very good mare. 
Trying to gage a price but owner keeps asking me to bid!!! 
Any ideas breeders out there- I'm in Ireland so prices pretty low for foals here :-(
Thanks


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## Alec Swan (27 August 2013)

If the vendor keeps asking you to bid,  explain that you can't be buyer and seller,  and that you will need a guide price.  If he still wont,  then he probably doesn't want to sell it,  he's just messing you around,  and if that's the case,  walk.

Alec.


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## jalisco (27 August 2013)

Thanks Alex I agree however what do u think a foal like this would cost? So annoying really he has a load of horses for sale nearly 30 so he's desperate I think. Thanks


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## Spring Feather (27 August 2013)

I can't really help you as I'm in a different country but if the foal is registered with Holsteiner then over here you'd expect to pay around $15,000 for the filly.

However where the seller is at with his pricing ... he obviously has no idea on pricing so you need to do some research into finding comparable foals and see what they are advertised for/ selling for nearer your neck of the woods.  I find sellers who don't know the price of their stock absolutely frustrating to deal with!  In your case, I'd low ball him and see what he comes back with tbh.


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## Jesstickle (27 August 2013)

My friend has a Cardento horse which she bought as an unbacked 3yo. Think it was 5k but no idea on what the mare was and obviously that affects price.


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## Eothain (29 August 2013)

When you're asked to bid, it's sometimes because the owner doesn't want to scare you away with what (s)he thinks the foal is worth/isn't sure what to ask.
If it were my foal and out of a mare with that performance and by Cardento then recession or not, if she wasn't making &#8364;10k there's a big problem


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## Eoghan (30 August 2013)

Hey Jalisco
What is the breeding of the mare?
what did she win in competition?


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## elijahasgal (30 August 2013)

stud fee, triple it for first offer, see what his response is. go from there.  If he says anything, he said bid, and bidding starts low


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## sport horse (30 August 2013)

Cardento stud fee is 2000 euros.  Add to that the cost of vets fees working with frozen semen  ? £500plus.
Cost of keeping mare for one year while in foal, cost of foaling and rearing foal, paperwork, farrier etc.  Anything less than this total the breeder has lost money as we have not even accounted for the initial cost of the mare!  (Why do we breed?!)
Oh and by the way my Cardento was born dark bay and now at 3 years old is greying out. You could well buy a grey so be prepared!


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## Eoghan (30 August 2013)

I think in this situation it is the mare that is the more important factor, cardento is a top sire and will have how many foals born across europe this year? thats why I'm interested in the breeding and preformance of the mare as that would help dictate the price of such a foal!!


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## jalisco (31 August 2013)

Hi Eoghan the mare is by tot de semilly xstarter from fei results 135 is the max shes jumped at 3star shows. Thanks


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## Eoghan (31 August 2013)

Hey jalisco,
That's a super blood line.so she's le tot de semilly who's the sire of diamant de semilly , itot du chateau etc , then goes back to the famous Starter and then being crossed with Cardendto.. Why would anyone be desperate to sell a filly like that!! talking to one of my friends in Ireland today. they said a four star select mare must have results at 1.40m or progeny jumping at that level... Was I miss informed?


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## amage (1 September 2013)

The 1.40 results don't have to be FEI classes though could have jumped to that level in National Grand Prixs and then jumped smaller classes abroad


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## jalisco (1 September 2013)

I'm not sure about that on the HSI website they class a 4 star mare that's jumped double clears at 3star level. I have an fei passported horse and he just jumped to 125 on sun shine tour. I'm not sure. However the market in Ireland is quite dire for foals and in general ( not me included) most people don't appreciate well bred foreign foals, maybe at 3 they would be more interested. I guess I'm trying to play that card as well to my advantage. Tbh if she's 10000 I couldn't justify if really. She may not even jump!! That would be a lot of money gone down the drain. After all it's a business I'm trying to build up not an expensive hobby ;-) what's peoples opinions of heading to holland, Germany or France to pick one up? One serious warmblood breeder here who really is in the know said head over there. He said u cannot buy in Ireland because they ask completely stupid money - in Europe he bought 6 foals by international stallions out of 140 plus mares for 20000. That makes more money sense to me


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## Eoghan (1 September 2013)

What was the mares name! I'll see if I can find anything on her for you? If you had a filly that we'll bred how would you price her?


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## jalisco (1 September 2013)

No its ok don't want to say !! But that's what I'm saying - in Ireland there isn't the same standard of foal here to Europe- so when they have a good one like her the price is silly IMHO. That's why I asking aswell how much people are paying in their experience for foals like her. I'm sure I would go to Europe and pay &#8364;5000 for her. Id even pay lower. I know someone who bought a foal who dam was a full sister to a horse that was top 10 in world championship in Kentucky. And he said u would be very surprised she was very reasonable. Also this man said the are more interested in colts and stallion potential rather that fillies.


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## jalisco (1 September 2013)

Sorry meant to say higher lol!!


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## Alec Swan (1 September 2013)

I wonder just how many would be brave enough to pay £5-10k for a foal,  in this current climate.  It isn't just the climate which is the risk either.  However well bred the foal,  and she may be considered to be exotic,  if she's to be kept for another 4 years,  and she proves to be less than ideal,  and we know that no matter the breeding,  there's a high percentage of rejects,  then the buyer is going to be left with a very expensive failure.

I'm not sure that there's a foal born which is worth £10k.  There will be 2 year olds,  for certain that are worth that sort of money,  because they will have been loose schooled over a jump and able to demonstrate their potential.  The only potential which a foal has is in its supporting pedigree,  and I suspect that that same foal,  when it's two,  will be worth the same money.  Me?  If I had £10k to spend on a youngster,  I'd buy a two year old,  before a foal,  every time.

Jaliscoe,  what would I pay for the foal that you're considering?  £2-3k is the answer,  and then I'd have to really want it!  I'm not belittling that particular foal,  but considering all foals,  and it's surprising how many are sold as backed youngsters for the same money as they were bought for,  but as foals.

Alec.


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## jalisco (1 September 2013)

I agree Alex- finally someone who think relatively speaking. The buyer would not sell for less than 5000 or any where near that even though he has a good 30 animals to get rid of and some that I have seen would not make 1000 let alone 10000! I probably think 2 yr old would be a better option- theres 2000 for sale in two wks in goresbridge - one wonders what the clearance rate will be! Once the winter sets in maybe his attitude will change - who knows. But I do agree Alex 10000 is a bit too much for just breeding alone. Unfortunately some sellers just push  themselves out of the market - they are just not realistic. Sometimes people have to realise the first offer is probably the best offer too! 
The foals sales last were dire too- not just because of the quality but nobody wanted them. I bought 4 lovely foals last year all straight correct lovely movers and great breeding. However I certainly didn't pay more than 2000 each. Some wanted a lot lot more and went home unsold but one has to realise that unless u are willing to keep them until they are 3 it's a huge gamble to buy a foal in the first place! I think it's just a waste of time to advertise a foal POA then to tantalise the buyer by getting them to bid! And then insulting the offef you do give!! Very frustrating indeed!


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## Spring Feather (1 September 2013)

I'm glad I'm a breeder over here that's all I can say lol!  Registered WB foals here sell for 10k-15k.  I just sold a 4 month old filly 2 weeks ago for that price.  She was bought to be shown on the line as a youngster and then destined to become a broodmare.  If I wasn't selling my foals for around the 10k pricetag then there wouldn't be any point in breeding as I'd never cover my costs let alone make a profit.  So now I see why you guys are always saying that there's little point in breeding well bred horses, if you're only getting 2-3k for 2 or 3 year olds then whoever is breeding them is not much of a businessman and must be making huge losses.

I have some extra special foals due next spring and I've already been offered well in excess of the figure above inutero.  I won't sell inutero however so will just wait until they are born and then offer them up for sale.

Jalisco if you know of foals selling for far less in Europe then seems obvious to me that you should go over there and buy one.  I know a fair few good breeders in Germany and I know they do not sell there foals for as little as you think (they sell for more than I do!)


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## jalisco (1 September 2013)

Spring feather you live in Canada  so does my uncle! He moved there to sell horses as there is a huge amateur market to sell to who have masses of money and don't seem to know what to do with it ;-) look at the prices they charge in Canada and across the border in the USA ?! A ordinary riding horses is mega bucks!! Your livery fees are huge! So it's all realities in my books!  When u have the likes of Springsteen, Gates etc to sell to sure u can charge what you like! Here in Ireland we don't have such a luxury. On a serious note fair play but you are probably one of many who gets that kind of money for your foals over there so it's the norm. Not over here I'm afraid. That's the difference I guess between the mega bucks clients you have there and real horse people over here. Difference as a buyer I'm realistic and couldn't justify as Alex said to spend that on just breeding alone. I'm a actually trying to make money and make realistic investments for the future of my business ;-)) thanks


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## Spring Feather (1 September 2013)

Yes it's incredible the difference in sport horse prices between our countries.  Over here yearlings and 2 year olds sell for not much more than they would at weaning.  Once they get to 5 or 6 years old if they are out there doing well at young horse classes then they sell for megabucks.  I looked at a really nice young mare yesterday (I'm always on the lookout for nice broodmares).  She had similar bloodlines (although not nearly as good) as one of my broodmares and they hadn't competed her as much or as successfully as my girl and yet they were asking $70k for her.  And they'll probably get it!

Why don't you approach European breeders who you know are selling the bloodlines you are looking for and ask them what their price ranges are and then once you have a few of them, you could take a trip over there and view them all.  As I say though, the breeders I personally know in Germany who are breeding this quality of foals are asking more for them than I ask for mine, so maybe you're best looking for a smaller hobby breeder with just a couple of mares as they tend to not price their foals at TMV as I'm sure they don't really work out the real cost to them of producing their foals.  Best of luck!


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## Eothain (1 September 2013)

What you have in that filly is a nice bit of what our thoroughbred friends would refer to as "black type" in the damline.
Even if she never competes and just goes breeding at 3, it's still a strong damline and the odds of producing successful competition horses from her are stacked in your favour.
If any foal isn't making 3x the stud fee plus expenses until weaning as a guide price, then you're as well as off just lining up the mares and shooting them.

It's illogical to brush aside the statistical advantage that has been proven to come from stronger damlines.
The argument that Frank Sinatra could sing, but could his brother? Just absolutely does not get a look in with me!!


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## Alec Swan (1 September 2013)

Spring Feather said:



			I'm glad I'm a breeder over here that's all I can say lol!  Registered WB foals here sell for 10k-15k.  I just sold a 4 month old filly 2 weeks ago for that price.  She was bought to be shown on the line as a youngster and then destined to become a broodmare.  If I wasn't selling my foals for around the 10k pricetag then there wouldn't be any point in breeding as I'd never cover my costs let alone make a profit.  .......
		
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We live in different worlds!!

Alec.


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## SusieT (1 September 2013)

well the main thing is if you don't want to pay that money to secure this foal then you may not be able to buy such a quality foal, so it's no point saying you don't want to pay it-just tell the seller what you do want to pay!


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## richie o'Hara (1 September 2013)

Hi everyone 
Im new to this forum and think these things can be usefull when used in the correct way?
However I feel I have no choice but to give a response to this current situation as I have a four star select mare called Kalifa de La Creek who is by le tot de semilly X starter and has a filly foal by cardento, now at this stage I must say that no one has been to see this foal in the flesh so therefore cannot comment on how it moves etc!!! But seeming as Ireland is a small I presume its my foal this discussion is about. Now im not going to hide behind fake names like ie Jalisco!! 
the dam in question as I have stated to "Jalisco" has won at five star international shows not just jumped two double clears at 1.35m at three star shows! and im sorry but last yr I broke my leg and dislocated my ankle in five different places last year,I was in cast for twelve weeks and told I would probably not ride again etc, in my first yr back might I add on two home bred horses who are from a 3 star select mare have had the winner of the stepping stones final and his half sister jumped in the two ruby qualifiers (1.20m 5 yr old 10,000 euro champ) double clear both days but not qualifying these are the only homebred horses of competition age , I find it very offencive that I have worked this hard and my horses are achieving results, most of my mares have preformed to a high level themselves or are from a good preformance family, so you could imagine my dissappointment at when Im trying to do things the correct way and often working from 6am to after 10pm at reading an article from someone saying my horses arent worth 1000euro!! but to state again NO ONE HAS BEEN TO SEE MY CARDENTO FILLY FOAL, and I TOLD THE PERSON NUMEROUS TIMES WHAT THE MARE HAD WON IN THE RING!


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## richie o'Hara (1 September 2013)

oohh and as an other not I told the person in question that I was not desperate to sell the filly!!!


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## Eoghan (1 September 2013)

Jalisco or what ever your name really is..... Is this true?


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## Gore (1 September 2013)

Ok. So completely diff story than what we were led to believe !! I'd imagine the first thing I'd do if I was interested in a foal would be to go see it. How can u tell what it's worth with out seeing it move, confirmation etc. I've seen pics & videos of animals & it's never the same. No mind trying to price it or knock the value of it. Horses aren't like used cars !! There's no book price. This is ob a very well bred foal that has enormous paddock value no mind a potential career in competition. I breed myself. Importing frozen semen from Europe , trying to use the best bloodlines available that will suit our brood mares, all that have had competition experience & well related.take into account stud fees, ( in this case e2 k),transport costs(approx e300 from Germany) vets fees e250 per frozen cycle & we know that it doesn't always work first time, then scans. Vaccinating , feeding, worming, farrier for  mare for the year & then cost of same for foal until approx 6 months, now I know we all love it ( breeding horses)but if I was to sell that foal for e2 to e 3 k , well dear god, multiply that by ten mares, I wouldn't last the year at those losses !!! Interestingly I follow the auctions on the continent & it always amazes me the high prices their foals get, to the point that there r discussions going on about taking some of the better irish bred foals out there. Goresbridge is always a mixed bag, as any sale & you'll often find that certain calibre of foals never get to public auction. & before I go , I would b very hesitant to buy a two year old.at that stage it's been well tried & if of any value would b held until at least a 3 yo. Yearlings & 2 yo never sell well & always command lower prices. I wouldn't mind that filly in my paddock !!


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## Eoghan (2 September 2013)

Jalisco or whatever you like to call yourself!! What level have you actually competed at? How many horses have you sold in the last 12 months? The foals you investedso wisely in how many are from a direct performance family? They probably have the popular names of your local area but how many are from direct proven mother lines, who's dams/ siblings have reached international competition??


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## gadetra (2 September 2013)

Eothain said:



			What you have in that filly is a nice bit of what our thoroughbred friends would refer to as "black type" in the damline.
Even if she never competes and just goes breeding at 3, it's still a strong damline and the odds of producing successful competition horses from her are stacked in your favour.
If any foal isn't making 3x the stud fee plus expenses until weaning as a guide price, then you're as well as off just lining up the mares and shooting them.

It's illogical to brush aside the statistical advantage that has been proven to come from stronger damlines.
The argument that Frank Sinatra could sing, but could his brother? Just absolutely does not get a look in with me!!
		
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The mare is the biggest part of the breeding equation. By some distance. The end! That they are not as valued in the equation as much as the stallion, certainly in terms of their own performance never ceases to amaze me. A foal out of a mare of this calibre with a PROVEN INTERNATIONAL RECORD has to be worth a few bob! If not what is?!!



richie o'Hara said:



			Hi everyone 
Im new to this forum and think these things can be usefull when used in the correct way?
However I feel I have no choice but to give a response to this current situation as I have a four star select mare called Kalifa de La Creek who is by le tot de semilly X starter and has a filly foal by cardento, now at this stage I must say that no one has been to see this foal in the flesh so therefore cannot comment on how it moves etc!!! But seeming as Ireland is a small I presume its my foal this discussion is about. Now im not going to hide behind fake names like ie Jalisco!! 
the dam in question as I have stated to "Jalisco" has won at five star international shows not just jumped two double clears at 1.35m at three star shows! and im sorry but last yr I broke my leg and dislocated my ankle in five different places last year,I was in cast for twelve weeks and told I would probably not ride again etc, in my first yr back might I add on two home bred horses who are from a 3 star select mare have had the winner of the stepping stones final and his half sister jumped in the two ruby qualifiers (1.20m 5 yr old 10,000 euro champ) double clear both days but not qualifying these are the only homebred horses of competition age , I find it very offencive that I have worked this hard and my horses are achieving results, most of my mares have preformed to a high level themselves or are from a good preformance family, so you could imagine my dissappointment at when Im trying to do things the correct way and often working from 6am to after 10pm at reading an article from someone saying my horses arent worth 1000euro!! but to state again NO ONE HAS BEEN TO SEE MY CARDENTO FILLY FOAL, and I TOLD THE PERSON NUMEROUS TIMES WHAT THE MARE HAD WON IN THE RING!
		
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Good luck with your foal, she will be a great addition to any paddock.


(*ETA on a completely side note, seeing Flexible's full sister at the RDS made me want to kidnap her and put her in foal! Has she had any ET foals does anyone know? Or natural offspring? Talk about blacktype! Now there's a mare I would like in my field!)


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## sport horse (2 September 2013)

I am surprised by the people who think they can go into Europe and buy the best fillies for a few thousand pounds.

As part of my own breeding operation I have travelled some of the biggest show jumping studs searching for good filly foals. The breeders will not even put a price on the best as they keep them for their own breeding operations! Time after time we walked into a field of say 20 filly foals and several were pointed out with prices. When we asked about the one or two that really caught the eye we were without exception told ' that one is not for sale we are retaining it for our breeding'.

We have managed to collect some really nice bloodlines, produce the mares to jump up to a minimum of 1.40 themselves to be good enough for my breeding operation, mate them to the best and hope for the best.  As a breeder it always pays to buy the very best you can afford rather than fill your fields with average quality.


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## HBM1 (2 September 2013)

And therein lies the problem of giving too much information on an open forum, and then being rude about the seller's stock. Just because a person is not willing to pay a price for a foal, that does notat all mean the foal is not worth more.
People want the top bloodlines, have aspirations of jumping GrandPrix etc, but are not willing to pay. No need to be rude about the horses on an open forum though. Eg "not being worth a thousand".


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## no_no_nanette (2 September 2013)

HBM1 said:



			And therein lies the problem of giving too much information on an open forum, and then being rude about the seller's stock. Just because a person is not willing to pay a price for a foal, that does notat all mean the foal is not worth more.
People want the top bloodlines, have aspirations of jumping Grand Prix etc, but are not willing to pay. No need to be rude about the horses on an open forum though. Eg "not being worth a thousand".
		
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I'm very glad that the breeder came on here to present the accurate picture, and has, as he says, worked incredibly hard to breed the very best only to find his foal and her dam misrepresented and denigrated. I think that the prices the the OP quotes for top bloodline foals on the continent are pure fantasy.  It really is about time that myths about picking up super star foals from Europe or anywhere else for a song are stamped on.  Its incredibly damaging for breeders, who time and again come on these forums to give the real picture of how much it costs to put a mare in foal to a quality stallion and then raise the foal, let alone make a profit - and still there are posts raising expectations of being able to pick up a highly bred youngster for under £1500.


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## ihatework (2 September 2013)

no_no_nanette said:



			I'm very glad that the breeder came on here to present the accurate picture, and has, as he says, worked incredibly hard to breed the very best only to find his foal and her dam misrepresented and denigrated. I think that the prices the the OP quotes for top bloodline foals on the continent are pure fantasy.  It really is about time that myths about picking up super star foals from Europe or anywhere else for a song are stamped on.  Its incredibly damaging for breeders, who time and again come on these forums to give the real picture of how much it costs to put a mare in foal to a quality stallion and then raise the foal, let alone make a profit - and still there are posts raising expectations of being able to pick up a highly bred youngster for under £1500.
		
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The only highly bred foal you'll pick up on the continent for £1500 is one with a wonky leg or that looks and moves like a part bred camel. They breed in bulk, and there will naturually always be a % of crud that needs shifting at a loss.

Was at auction a couple of weeks ago - minimum bid was 3K, all bar a handful of circa 250 sold at minimum bid. Vast majority were higher than minimum bid, 10-15% were probably 10K+ and there were a handful at 20K+. Think top lot was 46K. The breeders were commenting on how low prices are this year.

(And bear in mind this was August and those entered up were the ones that hadn't sold privately for decent money beforehand ...)


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## Spring Feather (2 September 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			We live in different worlds!!

Alec.
		
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Well to that Alec I'd have to say "and thank goodness we do!" :smile3:  

Closely followed up by "Why?"  Why are top quality foals in the UK/Ireland selling for such low sales prices?  What is the point of breeding such high calibre foals if there is little interest from the UK/Irish buying public in paying a fair price for them?

I agree with the other breeders commenting above, that buying the best broodmares you can afford is critical to the future success of any horse breeding business.  The foal being commented on in this thread is an exceptionally well-bred foal and to suggest it should be sold for £1,000 is pretty insulting to her breeder.  I would, however, be very interested to see the bloodlines of these supposed fillies in Europe that OP says are selling for peanuts (heck I might even be interested in importing some of them at those prices! :biggrin3: ).  I try to keep my finger on the pulse and have a number of breeder friends in Germany and none are advertising and selling their foals for peanuts so where are all these cheapies?


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## brownswiss (2 September 2013)

Eoghan said:



			Jalisco or what ever your name really is..... Is this true?
		
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.....

I think Jalisco is gone underground... 

Are people that naive that they think they can post such detailed foal info ( and the foal being of such a high calibre ) and that it not be obvious to most on here who the breeder in question is....

I really think a big apology is the very least that is required. 

Jalisco obviously was well aware of the high value of the foal in question but wants it for the price of the service.

It shows a lot of arrogance and very little empathy with breeders to post some of what you wrote.


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## Eoghan (2 September 2013)

Wel said Brownswiss I don't think they will thouth I'm still interested seeming as they were so dismissive of his stock, what exactly they have that is so superior!!
I think Jalisco is gone underground... 

Are people that naive that they think they can post such detailed foal info ( and the foal being of such a high calibre ) and that it not be obvious to most on here who the breeder in question is....

I really think a big apology is the very least that is required. 

Jalisco obviously was well aware of the high value of the foal in question but wants it for the price of the service.

It shows a lot of arrogance and very little empathy with breeders to post some of what you wrote.[/QUOTE]


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## niamh (2 September 2013)

jalisco said:



			Difference as a buyer I'm realistic and couldn't justify as Alex said to spend that on just breeding alone. I'm a actually trying to make money and make realistic investments for the future of my business ;-)) thanks
		
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So your "business" consists in putting breeders out of theirs?  you're expecting the breeder to lose money on his carefully bred foal so that you are not put in a position to maybe make less than 10k profit on it in a few years? (or maybe you already have a buyer lined up, with an immediate gain of several thousands)


There are dozens of feathered cob foals on donedeal for 300 or less. Maybe that's what you should look at. I doubt anyone who breeds top bloodlines hasn't already figured that they themselves can sell the products as 3 or 4 yo into the english market and make the big profit themselves. (and if they make a loss, it's no less than the loss you're offering them now, so only a congenital idiot would accept such a bargain).


Everything is for sale in Ireland. It's the nature of the country. It doesn't mean most people are "desperate" to sell. Too many average animals have been historically overpriced, but that is no reason to underprice a genuine good quality bloodline. Anyway if the breeder had sold this filly to you at this ludicrous price, it would only mean one thing, and that there is something wrong with it and you've been had.


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## Spring Feather (2 September 2013)

Eoghan said:



			Wel said Brownswiss I don't think they will thouth I'm still interested seeming as they were so dismissive of his stock, what exactly they have that is so superior!!
		
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Hmm I'm not so convinced Jalisco really is dismissive of your stock. I think perhaps it might just be a case of sour grapes because she can't afford to pay a realistic price for a superbly bred future broodmare?


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## brownswiss (2 September 2013)

How much more dismissive would you like her to be ... here is a quote from one of her posts ... "I agree Alex- finally someone who think relatively speaking. The buyer would not sell for less than 5000 or any where near that even though he has a good 30 animals to get rid of and some that I have seen would not make 1000 let alone 10000!"......

Not only dismissive bet extremely insulting..... 

We await her apology..


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## Spring Feather (2 September 2013)

She wrote that, however she may not truly mean that.  Hence my sour grapes comment :wink3:


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## shirleyno2 (2 September 2013)

Goodness, this post has made me laugh, you're all jesting yes????
I'm still looking at 4 mares to breed for next year, I hope they will be worth more than 2k!!!!!


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## HBM1 (2 September 2013)

I am so glad more breeders of quality foals in this country are now hanging on to them to produce through themselves. As mentioned, under saddle they will make much more money.  Why should any breeder spend around £5000 or more to get a top notch foal on the ground just so someone with pie in the sky ideas of what they should have to pay can come along and offer £1500??  8 years ago I bought a beautifully bred filly foal for £3500.  People expect to pay less than that now.  Tell me, if you want a brand new car, would you be expecting to pay less now than 8 years ago?  

I think one of the problems is, some people don't really have a clue what it takes to breed, so much sacrifice and commitment and then wonder why breeders get angry when they turn down a snivelling offer for their foals.  I for one am keeping my foals to bring on myself now, they may turn out to not have the talent I am hoping for, but at least that will be my loss - no way I am giving away a foal to go make someone else money as a four year old thanks.


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## Alec Swan (2 September 2013)

brownswiss said:



			How much more dismissive would you like her to be ... here is a quote from one of her posts ... "I agree Alex- finally someone who think relatively speaking. The buyer would not sell for less than 5000 or any where near that even though he has a good 30 animals to get rid of and some that I have seen would not make 1000 let alone 10000!"......

Not only dismissive bet extremely insulting..... 

We await her apology..
		
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I suspect that the OP was responding to my comments,  and considering the information which was available,  at the time,  I stand by my general observations in that we're living in straitened times,  and that foals simply aren't selling for the money that they were 3 years ago,  and we all whinged long and loud then,  and that was before a further downturn in the market!  I'd also still rather spend serious money on a 2 yo than a foal,  and I'll stand by that,  too!

richie o'Hara,  my comments weren't and aren't in any way intended to denigrate your foal,  and following on from your explanatory post regarding the dam's success,  there's no question but that you have every chance of having an exceptional prospect on your hands.

Those who have a waiting list of people who want to buy their foals,  and they continue to ride the crest of a wave,  I applaud you.  Not everyone's so fortunate that they maintain a market place which is unchanged for them.  

Alec.


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## FionaM12 (2 September 2013)

Wow this thread is a good read. 

People do need to realise that HHO is a high profile site, and if you write something which is traceable to a particular horse (or foal in this case) seller or breeder etc, someone will spot it.

I'm sure the OP thought they were safe because they didn't give every detail (I think they held back the name of the dam) but clearly it's a small world. :wink3:

I guess the OP won't be buying that foal now?


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## richie o'Hara (3 September 2013)

I wouldnt say that, I still find it very strange that jalisco would say they had seen the foal etc,etc when they hadnt!! Still though seeming as most of my stock isnt worth 1000e ill have to be open to offers!!!


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## Zero00000 (3 September 2013)

Awkward!!!

Sounds a lovely filly, hope if you decide to sell she finds a home to fulfill her hopefully promising future


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## brownswiss (3 September 2013)

as can be seen below jalisco was on here tonight and did not see fit to apologise for her derogatory comments on the value of a forum members foals....
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## FionaM12 (3 September 2013)

brownswiss said:



			as can be seen below jalisco was on here tonight and did not see fit to apologise for her derogatory comments on the value of a forum members foals....
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I should think she's somewhat embarrassed. :redface3:


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## gadetra (3 September 2013)

richie o'Hara said:



			I wouldnt say that, I still find it very strange that jalisco would say they had seen the foal etc,etc when they hadnt!! Still though seeming as most of my stock isnt worth 1000e ill have to be open to offers!!!

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Lol :lol: . I would be steaming if someone did what Jalisco did to me. You have the patience of a saint!

ETA oh and embarassed or not Jalisco owes Ritchie an apology. If you do wrong you stand up and apologise if your any sort of a person at all.


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## brownswiss (3 September 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			I should think she's somewhat embarrassed. :redface3:
		
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..

I hope you are right Fiona...BUT having read what she put down in writing for the World to read I am afraid she may not posses that emotion.


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## brownswiss (3 September 2013)

Jalisco..
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I BET SHE IS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Eoghan (3 September 2013)

Hey jalisco
seeming are you are such, an experianced horse person, and you know the business so well. would you like to enlighten everyone on the forum! On the questions that have been put to you?


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## Spring Feather (3 September 2013)

Although I do feel the same as everyone else, that Jalisco should return to this thread to apologise to Richie O'Hara/Eoghan, perhaps it's becoming rather daunting for her to do that now?


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## gadetra (3 September 2013)

Spring Feather said:



			Although I do feel the same as everyone else, that Jalisco should return to this thread to apologise to Richie O'Hara/Eoghan, perhaps it's becoming rather daunting for her to do that now?
		
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You do the crime...
I think it is very low to insult someone's stock on a public forum, wrongly, get caught out lying, and not bother to stand up and apologise/face the music. It is the decent and right thing to do. Not to do so is low and cowardly in my opinion.


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## Spring Feather (3 September 2013)

gadetra said:



			You do the crime...
I think it is very low to insult someone's stock on a public forum, wrongly, get caught out lying, and not bother to stand up and apologise/face the music. It is the decent and right thing to do. Not to do so is low and cowardly in my opinion.
		
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Oh I agree totally!  I don't know why she doesn't tbh, HHO is a pretty forgiving place and apologies are normally very well received.


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