# Downsides of barefoot (slipping/thrush/cut frogs?) & what else?



## canteron (7 September 2013)

The thread that ridden hunters have to be shod got me thinking.  The advantages of being barefoot are well documented on here, but what about the downsides (apart from occasionally being mocked by fellow riders!).

Are barefoot horses that much more prone to slipping on wet grass? Do you have to adapt your riding style?

And what are the other less discussed downsides of being barefoot both ridden and how they are cared for.  For example, are barefoot horses more prone to thrush, or does it just affect them more obviously when they have it?

Do you have to have different/more products in your first aid kit for barefoot horses?


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## FairyLights (7 September 2013)

I may be wrong but I do think that barefoot horses are more prone to abcesses.
They are most definately in danger of grit entering up the white line and causing seedy toe or white line disease. Also in wet weather the hooves are softer so wear more quickly.


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## ellie11987 (7 September 2013)

I think the long term benefits of being BF far outweigh any downsides. There are more downsides to shoeing than being BF IMO. 

My BF TB has never slipped on any surface. I can't say the same for the shod horses on the yard, who slide down the concrete hill on the way to the field. My riding has stayed the same, with the exception of being booted for hacking. 

She isn't more prone to thrush, but I am more aware of it and more thorough with disinfecting weekly to keep on top of it. I don't have anything different in my first aid kit.

The only downside for me is the faffing around with diet/turnout/work routines as she is a very sugar sensitive poor do-er so I am constantly reviewing and tweaking her managment to keep her 100% happy which can be a it of a PITA but it works and she is 100% happy and sound now.


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## FairyLights (7 September 2013)

No one asked if one was better then t'other. Please lets not start that debate! They asked for downsides. There are positives and negatives to everything in life.


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## ellie11987 (7 September 2013)

Horsesforever1 said:



			No one asked if one was better then t'other. Please lets not start that debate! They asked for downsides. There are positives and negatives to everything in life.
		
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I wasn't starting that debate? And I wouldn't want to lol! I've answered the questions asked, giving both positives and negatives from personal experience


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## MerrySherryRider (7 September 2013)

From the owners point of view, you can't turn a blind eye to things like thrush and too much sugar because it affects performance. A shod hoof won't appear footie like the naked hoof. It is a pain if the horse is uncomfortable on stony tracks, you can't just tack up and go like the shod horse unless you keep the feet conditioned or put boots on.

 The horse needs to be exercised on dry ground to help the to hoof self trim and you have to watch out for a stretched white line, which with a shod horse you wouldn't see, but it can get grit in it and while it isn't generally a problem, in the right conditions, it can be.

I haven't found slipping a problem, quite the reverse, they seem more sure footed on wet grass and slippery surfaces.

I don't really think having horses without shoes has a downside from the horses' point of view. Feet are the window to the health of the horse, an early warning system that something could be wrong and shoes hide the indicators.

The biggest advantage is that the foot has room to compensate from a less than perfect balancing trim, the hoof encased in a shoe has no way to adapt until the shoe is removed without putting stress on the foot, leg and muscles.

And you never have a loose shoe before a competition.


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## serenityjane (7 September 2013)

Horsesforever1 said:



			I may be wrong but I do think that barefoot horses are more prone to abcesses.
They are most definately in danger of grit entering up the white line and causing seedy toe or white line disease. Also in wet weather the hooves are softer so wear more quickly.
		
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My three would disagree-never had seedytoe or white line disease or thrush, and wear= exercise regardless of weather/wetness.
Found riding on steep short dry sheep grass slippy though-especially downhill, but then trotted past shod horses (who were slipping) on steep tarmac.


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## Gloi (7 September 2013)

Horsesforever1 said:



			I may be wrong but I do think that barefoot horses are more prone to abcesses.
They are most definately in danger of grit entering up the white line and causing seedy toe or white line disease. Also in wet weather the hooves are softer so wear more quickly.
		
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Mine had abscesses and white line disease when he was shod and abscesses at first when he was bare as the WLD grew out. However once his feet recovered from the shoe damage he's never had another abscess since.

I use boots which can be a faff on muddy legs and slippery in mud, but I no longer have to worry about slippery tarmac which evens it out.


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## StoptheCavalry (7 September 2013)

I had mine barefoot for 2 years and have recently had fronts put on him. 
The downsides for me were:
Having to consider where I was riding, if he was a little footy I would have to pick a route that was comfortable for him.
Spending SO much time thinking were his feet ok, do they look different, is he sore, should that look like that etc etc
Grit in his white line
Thrush
Separation of white line
And in the end the breaking point for me was a humongous abscess 

There were obviously benefits being barefoot, riding out in the snow and not worrying about balling in his feet, but for me now the pros out weigh the cons, I may have his shoes off for the winter but will have to see how we get on


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## wyrdsister (7 September 2013)

Well, I've never had thrush or cut frogs with any of mine and the one who did have recurring abscesses didn't as soon as I moved her away from the place she grew up (land management there was a joke!). The downsides I've found are a) having to be a bit picky about which fields to turn out in - clover is a real nuisance in large quantities and b) disagreements with one or two vets over barefoot versus remedial shoeing during treatment programmes. (Having gone that route once, I'd be hugely reluctant to do it again; it caused way more problems *for us* than it solved). Otherwise, once I got the right feed sorted out and my head around the mechanics/requirements of it, I've found it fairly simple, interesting, and better for my horses.


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## AngieandBen (7 September 2013)

Downsides are time, can't just grab them/tack them and go if they are booted like mine;  ( not that I mind )  Never had either of them abscess whether they were shod or not.

Can't think of any other downsides!


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## Clava (7 September 2013)

Downside would definitely be slipping in some conditions (not roads), my tb has smooth small feet and on hard short grass she slips all over the place on the lunge, but with fronts on she really steps out with confidence and the same goes for going over chalk and clay. However, with my haflinger I hardly notice this, so every horse is different.

The other downsides are dependant on how you view things - spending more time caring about diet and thrush etc. to keep a barefoot happy some might call a downside, but you get a healthier horse and hooves at the end of it so totally worth it :0


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## Leg_end (7 September 2013)

The only downside for me has been horribly negative people! Old school, naive viewpoints and people who refused to believe that it was a viable rehab option that works. Luckily my vet is fab and sees total value in what I'm doing and I've removed the negative people from my life (who I don't think realised quite how bad they were but it was awful worrying about what they thought all the time) 

It's more inconvenient as you can't just pop to the local tack shop to get the supplements you need (and you need to mineral balance to some degree) and grass has become the devil!

I've not had any issues with slipping and I've jumped combinations on curving lines on damp grass with no issues but as another poster said, this seems to be down to the horse. Same with thrush, abscesses and WLD - that seems iet related or some horses and luckily I've not had an issue with mine.

Positives for me are a sound horse who is proving navicular is not a degenerative disease. He is happy, I've made some fab new friends and I'm constantly learning.


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## ridefast (7 September 2013)

I don't think there are any more downsides, maybe just different downsides, to being barefoot rather than shod. And as with everything in the horse world it's down to the individual, some people struggle more with shoeing issues and others struggle more with barefoot issues. Mine are all barefoot, all on a very basic diet that I don't have to faff around with, all happily rock crunching in spite of 2 of them getting hardly any exercise/foot conditioning. If there is any issues with general health I get early warnings as the feet will be the first to show it, but I only have issues with one of mine who has liver problems. So nothing to do with barefoot


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## Brightbay (7 September 2013)

I'm lucky enough to have a control group - my horse's companion is a fully shod mare who lives in the same conditions with him all year round 

He came to me shod, 7 years ago. He immediately developed an abscess, vet arrived, pulled shoe and said "my goodness, there's a lot of WLD here".

I arranged for all shoes to be pulled and started work fixing his feet 

Since then, he has had no WLD.  It took a long time (and a lot of abscesses) to fix the problems he had developed while shod, and it's unlikely his feet will ever be what they would if he hadn't been shod as a developing youngster.  He doesn't get stones in his white line, because I spend a heck of a lot of time making sure he doesn't have stretched white line to get stones in!

However, he is incredibly surefooted on roads - we happily trot down hills and then wait for the shod horses to catch up with us  He is surefooted in snow - we get out while our friends can't leave the yard.  He has never slipped on grass, but we don't do anything spectacular that would result in slips to be honest! 

He has thrush, and it has been a problem.   His mare friend who is shod has also had thrush - so it would appear to be a problem with the field, rather than shod vs bare.  I have finally got the thrush under control (and the abscesses) by getting his grass analysed.  This will also benefit the shod horse and the other horses in the field though  Shod mare has just blown the biggest abscess I have ever seen out her coronary band - so abscesses aren't just the province of the unshod, and again seem more likely to be due to the grass conditions. She also has rampant WLD, with her shoes just about held on with loads of filler.  It will be interesting to see if her owner starts feeding her minerals, will her hooves improve the way my horse's have?

I have never had cut frogs? Why would this be more likely bare than shod? We also don't have to deal with overreach injuries or speedicuts.

In terms of time, sometimes we use boots.  It doesn't take any longer to apply boots than it does to pick out hooves - I am usually tacked up and waiting around for my friends who are drying off legs in order to apply brushing boots and knee pads (or maybe it's just me - I always seem to be ready first!).

I do spend a bit of time thinking about diet, supplements, how much exercise/stimulation to give hooves, but I also think I'd want to do that with a shod horse too?

So there are pros and cons, and for me they balance out fine


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## ShowjumpingPrincess (7 September 2013)

you cant put in studs, you cant have remadial shoeing, you have to put in a lot more time and effort to ensure they are healthy barefoot, you have to use hoof boots which i have heard rub and annoy the horse, you have to carefully select where you ride, cyclists,pedestrians and other horses cant hear you coming as shoes are noisier and it helps the horse develop a rhythm as he can hear his natural rhythm easier.


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## skint1 (7 September 2013)

I had my Tb mare barefoot for a while, she now is shod in front. I was sad that it didn't work out for her but I was not willing to keep her off grass for most of the year, it seemed too high a price to pay (for her as well as me) just to say I had a barefoot horse.


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## canteron (7 September 2013)

A huge thanks to everyone for their considered and helpful replies.

It is really great to have helpful hints, to understand the reality of the barefoot situation.  One of my horses has just come back into work after 6 months of lameness and I have decided, at least over the Winter to keep it unshod and see how it goes, so thanks for all the great replies and keep them coming!


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## Leg_end (7 September 2013)

ShowjumpingPrincess said:



			you cant put in studs, you cant have remadial shoeing, you have to put in a lot more time and effort to ensure they are healthy barefoot, you have to use hoof boots which i have heard rub and annoy the horse, you have to carefully select where you ride, cyclists,pedestrians and other horses cant hear you coming as shoes are noisier and it helps the horse develop a rhythm as he can hear his natural rhythm easier.
		
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I'm sorry but this post is grossly misinformed!! 

ou cant put in studs - This is true
you cant have remadial shoeing - again, true but my navicular horse was going downhill in remedial shoes and is back competing barefoot (wi new bone growth on this years xrays) so I'm not too fussed that he can't have a remedial shoe 
you have to put in a lot more time and effort to ensure they are healthy barefoot - true to an extent... I certainly think about feet a lot more than I ever did when shod
you have to use hoof boots which i have heard rub and annoy the horse - firstly no, you don't HAVE to use hoof boots. I don't and go over all types of terrain. I couldn't say if they annoy the horse as I've never asked an opinion from the horse  Who's to say that having a heavy, clunky bit of metal nailed to your foot doesn't cause some annoyance 
 you have to carefully select where you ride - incorrect. I ride of all types of terrain including very stoney tracks. As long as the diet is right this is possible.
cyclists,pedestrians and other horses cant hear you coming as shoes are noisier and it helps the horse develop a rhythm as he can hear his natural rhythm easier - Again, incorrect I'm afraid. I'll give you that they aren't as noisy but I can assure you that a healthy, concave barefoot horse has a lovely sound coming down the road and I've never surprised anyone. Unfortunately it isn't possible to have a stealth barefoot pony, they are also noisy  As for your point that they need to hear their feet for a natural rhythm... Er that makes no sense to me - how do you think horses cope on grass?! But anyway, point above should help clarify that is a mute point (no pun intended  )


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## nikkimariet (7 September 2013)

ShowjumpingPrincess said:



			as shoes are noisier and it helps the horse develop a rhythm as he can hear his natural rhythm easier.
		
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My eyebrows are so raised they have gone around the back of my head and are wiggling on top of my ponytail.

ETS the rest of your post is complete rubbish also.


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## Auslander (7 September 2013)

nikkimariet said:



			My eyebrows are so raised they have gone around the back of my head and are wiggling on top of my ponytail.

ETS the rest of your post is complete rubbish also.
		
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Took the words right out of my mouth!


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## FfionWinnie (7 September 2013)

They aren't going to be more prone to thrush lami etc, its just you notice it if they have it even mildly. 

I don't find mine slip at all other than I do wonder about jumping on very dry short grass on hard ground. Softer/wet grass their feet will get a grip. 

The only possible problem I for see is I can't stud up for jumping. 

Touch wood haven't had thrush or abscesses in any of my three.


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## HashRouge (7 September 2013)

nikkimariet said:



			My eyebrows are so raised they have gone around the back of my head and are wiggling on top of my ponytail.

ETS the rest of your post is complete rubbish also.
		
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Haha what a brilliant response!


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## Meowy Catkin (7 September 2013)

Leg_end said:



			The only downside for me has been horribly negative people! Old school, naive viewpoints and people who refused to believe that it was a viable rehab option that works.
		
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Sadly this. 

I'm really hoping that the tide is turning and that more people begin to see that if a horse is sound and happy without shoes, that leaving them unshod is a genuine option (and you aren't being cruel by doing so).


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## FairyLights (7 September 2013)

nikkimariet said:



			My eyebrows are so raised they have gone around the back of my head and are wiggling on top of my ponytail.

ETS the rest of your post is complete rubbish also.
		
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How Rude! there are better ways of saying you dont agree.


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## Kenzo (7 September 2013)

People can't hear you coming down the road as there is no clip clop of shoes, sometimes this is a downside.


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## twiggy2 (7 September 2013)

Kenzo said:



			People can't hear you coming down the road as there is no clip clop of shoes, sometimes this is a downside.
		
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my horse clip clops without shoes


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## jessieblue (7 September 2013)

Doesnt clip clop??  This is a genuine reason for choosing the hammering on of a metal cast the the foot?? Lol, thats funny.  My horse also clip clops, its a lovely sound and I have to admit he has only been bare for 2 months and the change in the sound of his feet are amazing as is the difference in the conformation.  Initially his feet did sound flabby and soft.  Now there is a distinct clip clop hollowness and tbh its not that different to a shod horse.  Very misinformed if you havent heard a healthy unshod hoof on the road.  The trouble is hearing a hoof which has just lost a shoe will not sound the same as the hoof will be shoesick.  I have yet to find any downsides of barefoot as my horse is in rehab for navicular type injury.  Its a long road, but what I have seen in 2 months with my own eyes has proven to me there is no option if horses best interest is to be considered.  Simple as that!  Yes no studs, yes lots of time reading and learning, and I mean LOTS. More time spent on managing diet and grass and even the putting on and taking off of hoofboots! Lots of time commiting to exercising the horse as you have to do this to stimulate the hoof and to trim, but then horses NEED exercise shod or unshod.  Aside from all these inconveniences, the horses needs should come first, not ours!  No argument from me what is best but inconvenient, yes it can be, but so is lameness.


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## Holly Hocks (7 September 2013)

Downside - I do have to watch for the random stones on the road, but do have hoofboots although haven't used them now for about a year.  I have one abscess, not had thrush and not had any cut frogs (in fact never heard of them!)
Upside - navicular hasn't deteriorated, and never have to trawl round the field looking for lost shoes!


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## MotherOfChickens (7 September 2013)

never had an abscess in my lot-even last year in all the wet. my vet said 90% of their calls at one point was for abscesses and when I asked him how many were shod, he replied that they all were. don't think thrush is more of a problem either-did get a stone bruise on my bigger horse one time, in the field. 

boots can be a fiddle to get the right ones but once you do, have had no problems with rubbing and because I have them, I don't have to pay huge attention to where I go-after such a long wet summer/winter last year I would have without them. They don't take long to put on/take off once you're used to them. They never slip on roads (although smooth concrete can be slippy for bare footers when wet), grass etc but then I have ponies atm, I never expect them to slip. I never worry about them being out in the snow.

I had a shod horse on loan this summer-awful, slipped on the roads after the first week of shoeing, was paranoid about infection in nail holes, couldn't believe how much crud he could pack into a shod foot and £80 every 6 weeks.


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## lurcherlu (7 September 2013)

Thinking about what to feed, and GRASS is evil now lol, I'm totally new to my barefoot journey, but am luckily starting with good foundations.... A 3 year old filly I've just broken in, I've had her 2 years and one day to be precise, I've always been interested in the barefoot side of things. I'm giving this bf thing our very best shot, yesterday we trotted along gravel, crunched over stones and rode over 12 miles of Tarmac, she is getting to be self trimming she's not been trimmed for 4 months and has good solid hooves that clip clip up the road. Yesterday on my way into the yard at mums she rang ,my mobile and as we were on a private road I answered and straight away she said o I can hear you're riding how many of you are out ??? Why mum ?? It's really loud and sounds like you have a shod horse... In fact is was just i on stone cruncher horse. But I'll openly admit if it doesn't work out on my part cos the ground we rent is a flood plain and always wet and muddy then yes il admit defeat and put shoes on her. The only downside is not seeing all the gorgeous farriers


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## thatsmygirl (7 September 2013)

ShowjumpingPrincess said:



			you cant put in studs, you cant have remadial shoeing, you have to put in a lot more time and effort to ensure they are healthy barefoot, you have to use hoof boots which i have heard rub and annoy the horse, you have to carefully select where you ride, cyclists,pedestrians and other horses cant hear you coming as shoes are noisier and it helps the horse develop a rhythm as he can hear his natural rhythm easier.
		
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Remedial shoeing is something I wouldn't do as there is enough evidence now which states it does more harm. 
Hoof boots do not have to be used and I think your wording " I HAVE HEARD" says it all I'm afraid. 

One of my lads makes as much noise as shod horses and with his feather covering his feet I get no negative comments.  as people prob think he's shod. The only horse iv got that has awful hoof condition despite being on the same diet is my shod mare!! ( or sorry bare as  off yesterday)


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## cptrayes (7 September 2013)

ShowjumpingPrincess said:



			you cant put in studs,
		
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I didnt need them for BE Novice




			you cant have remadial shoeing,
		
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You won't need them




			you have to put in a lot more time and effort to ensure they are healthy barefoot,
		
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I dont




			You have to use hoof boots which i have heard rub and annoy the horse,
		
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I don't




			you have to carefully select where you ride, cyclists,pedestrians and other horses cant hear you coming as shoes are noisier and it helps the horse develop a rhythm as he can hear his natural rhythm easier.
		
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You haven't heard mine. The only reason a shod horse would need to hear its feet hit the road is because it can't feel them properly.


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## Buddy'sMum (7 September 2013)

Horsesforever1 said:



			How Rude! there are better ways of saying you dont agree.
		
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I second this, thank you Horsesforever1. 

And to those of you who have posted less-than-polite responses to ShowjumpingPrincess - according to her profile she is still at school. So you're being rude to a child. :-(


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## Kenzo (7 September 2013)

twiggy2 said:



			my horse clip clops without shoes
		
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Well yes, but I wouldnt say it's as easily heard as with a shod horse that's all.


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## twiggy2 (7 September 2013)

Kenzo said:



			Well yes, but I wouldnt say it's as easily heard as with a shod horse that's all.
		
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but why would it need to be heard?


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## nikkimariet (7 September 2013)

Horsesforever1 said:



			How Rude! there are better ways of saying you dont agree.
		
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Buddy'sMum said:



			I second this, thank you Horsesforever1. 

And to those of you who have posted less-than-polite responses to ShowjumpingPrincess - according to her profile she is still at school. So you're being rude to a child. :-(
		
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Well then she should go and do her homework, shouldn't she.


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## Scarlett (7 September 2013)

Are you kidding me ShowjumpingPrincess? You actually have no idea, do you?

Come back and answer this question whan you have an idea of what your talking about.


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## Scarlett (7 September 2013)

Buddy'sMum said:



			I second this, thank you Horsesforever1. 

And to those of you who have posted less-than-polite responses to ShowjumpingPrincess - according to her profile she is still at school. So you're being rude to a child. :-(
		
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And? Maybe she will learn not to talk about things she has no idea about. Idiot!!


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## ATrueClassAct (7 September 2013)

Both mine are barefoot. 
Only down side is the worry over diet etc but neither of mine are ever booted. We don't have an outdoor arena and new boy is fine on the grass, sand track and stone track. He was barefoot before I bought him( TB too!) 
Neither have had abscess/thrush or anything else whilst being barefoot.


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## Alyth (7 September 2013)

I can only think of advantages!!  For a start I have learned so much about hooves, feeding, movement etc since starting the journey!!  Then again the ponies can have a quick rasp around at frequent intervals if their hooves need it.  My ponies don't seem to slip even on wet ground.  They can feel with their hooves and adjust their striding as required.  Hooves are healthy as the frog gets stimulation and hoof mechanism is unhindered.  The more road work they do the better the hoof wall grows!!!!  It's much cheaper!!!


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## Buddy'sMum (7 September 2013)

Scarlett said:



			And? Maybe she will learn not to talk about things she has no idea about. Idiot!!
		
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Really? A child expresses an opinion and you think it's acceptable for adults to call her names?


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## spookypony (7 September 2013)

Hmm. Never had an abscess. White line disease is probably rampant among shod horses; just concealed by the shoes. Same with thrush; most shod horses I see have pretty badly developed frogs, often thrushy, and contracted heels, and are probably looking at problems down the line somewhere; you know, all those mystery lamenesses that seem to plague so many horses...My competition pony has had lameness problems this summer, but at least I know why! As for boots, it takes me less than a minute to apply Renegades, which don't budge, and even if they did fall off, we could merrily continue. Far more sure-footed on most terrain. And some boot types do allow for studs now, if you feel the advantages of studs outweigh the potential disadvantages in terms of soft tissue damage. And if you feel that looking after your horse's diet and health is so much more arduous bare, that you prefer to mask the problems (_in the long term_) by hammering shoes on, well, perhaps your priorities could do with re-examination. 

As to SJPrincess...NM's response was so hilarious that I hope SJPrincess will take the put-down with a grin and perhaps learn something before jumping in. While it's possibly advisable to be gentle dealing with the ignorance of a child, she appears to be a teenager with very strong opinions, and I think can take care of herself!


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## Kenzo (7 September 2013)

twiggy2 said:



			but why would it need to be heard?
		
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I think there are instances when riding on the roads where it's handy (for safey)that people hear them coming that's all.


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## Scarlett (7 September 2013)

Buddy'sMum said:



			Really? A child expresses an opinion and you think it's acceptable for adults to call her names?
		
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Yes. I was taught as a child to stay out of adult conversations when I didn't understand what they were talking about, and only speak when asked to contribute and ask questions later if I had them, it was called manners and showing respect, something the vast majority children these days know nothing of. She needs to learn this. Her comments were idiotic and ill informed, thus I stand by my comment.


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## Clava (7 September 2013)

Buddy'sMum said:



			Really? A child expresses an opinion and you think it's acceptable for adults to call her names?
		
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She posted as an anonymous member (without saying she was speaking as a child) so it is inevitable that she will be treated as everyone else is and unreasonable for others to know to treat her any different.  She failed to mention she was speaking from an uneducated point of view, but her comments do rather imply this.


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## Buddy'sMum (7 September 2013)

Scarlett said:



			Yes. I was taught as a child to stay out of adult conversations when I didn't understand what they were talking about, and only speak when asked to contribute and ask questions later if I had them, it was called manners and showing respect, something the vast majority children these days know nothing of. She needs to learn this. Her comments were idiotic and ill informed, thus I stand by my comment.
		
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This forum is open to users of all ages and levels of horsemanship. The point of this forum is to share experience, not mock the less experienced or misinformed. Or children.

ShowjumpingPrincess has not demonstrated any lack of respect or manners. Unlike you.

When you signed up to the forum you agreed to abide by its terms. It seems you need to be reminded of a couple:
4.3	Do not post rude or abusive messages - including personal attacks on other Users.
4.4	Do not post defamatory or other insulting or inappropriate messages.


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## Scarlett (7 September 2013)

In answer to the original question I think the hardest bit is the attitudes and opinions of other folk, especially the attitude that to be barefoot means you're a 'hippy' or a 'bunny hugger' and can only be b/f becuase you never actually ride, just do NH. It saddens me that people don't make an effort to learn more about it, even if it's not something they want to do. It's our responsibility to our horses to educate ourselves as much as we can.

I already fed a b/f diet and have only added a good supplement to what they already had, my horses occasionally had thrush and abcesses before and they occasionally get them now, though it is probably less now they get the right minerals. I use hoofboots for really long hacks and find them easy to use and my horses have never had an issue with having them on, and the grip they have now on the road is amazing and I've had no problems out jumping or xc with grip, they never slip. My horses are sounder now than in shoes, and I'm happier because I feel like I'm doing the right thing.


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## Scarlett (7 September 2013)

Buddy'sMum said:



			This forum is open to users of all ages and levels of horsemanship. The point of this forum is to share experience, not mock the less experienced or misinformed. Or children.

ShowjumpingPrincess has not demonstrated any lack of respect or manners. Unlike you.

When you signed up to the forum you agreed to abide by its terms. It seems you need to be reminded of a couple:
4.3	Do not post rude or abusive messages - including personal attacks on other Users.
4.4	Do not post defamatory or other insulting or inappropriate messages.
		
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I'm sorry that I choose to stand up and say something when someone blatently posts something so wildly incorrect and lacking in fact, I said nothing here I wouldnt say to the poster face to face. Incorrect information when replying to a question asked MUST be pointed out, and if you or Showjumpingwhoever are too sensitive to deal with my reply I suggest you find the 'User Ignore' button and push it. The answer she posted was absurd as pointed out by folk other than me. There is nothing in the post to suggest it's a child, though I probably would have said the same thing had I known.


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## Buddy'sMum (7 September 2013)

Scarlett said:



			I'm sorry that I choose to stand up and say something when someone blatently posts something so wildly incorrect and lacking in fact, I said nothing here I wouldnt say to the poster face to face. Incorrect information when replying to a question asked MUST be pointed out, and if you or Showjumpingwhoever are too sensitive to deal with my reply I suggest you find the 'User Ignore' button and push it. The answer she posted was absurd as pointed out by folk other than me. There is nothing in the post to suggest it's a child, though I probably would have said the same thing had I known.
		
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And as an adult you are incapable of correcting someone politely? And you'd call a 14-year old girl an idiot to her face when she said something you disagreed with, rather than explaining to her why you disagree and inviting further discussion?

Love the signature btw, I can see you endeavour to apply Mark Rashid's philosophy to your interactions with horses and humans.


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## cptrayes (7 September 2013)

Kenzo said:



			I think there are instances when riding on the roads where it's handy (for safey)that people hear them coming that's all.
		
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I cannot imagine a situation where the difference between the clack of an unshod horse and that of a shod horse would affect anything.

Can you give me an example of what you mean?


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## Scarlett (7 September 2013)

Buddy'sMum said:



			And as an adult you are incapable of correcting someone politely? And you'd call a 14-year old girl an idiot to her face when she said something you disagreed with, rather than explaining to her why you disagree and inviting further discussion?

Love the signature btw, I can see you endeavour to apply Mark Rashid's philosophy to your interactions with horses and humans.
		
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In this instance, yes. Her post, in my opinion, deserved the severe reply I gave it, I wouldnt have said it otherwise. 

I regularily have a 14yo girl help me with my horses, had she said the contents of that post either too me verbally or if she had written it and I had read it I would have called her an idiot, yes. However she wouldnt, because she isn't, she is very good at asking questions, reasearching stuff she doesnt know and then holding conversations to discuss the issue at hand. 

Having read and watched a fair amount of Mark Rashid I think he would be the first person to call someone with a ill informed and incorrect opinion an idiot if he felt it was true. His honesty is one of the reasons he is so, so awesome. 

Oh, and I'm much nicer to my horses than any person


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## Buddy'sMum (7 September 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I cannot imagine a situation where the difference between the clack of an unshod horse and that of a shod horse would affect anything.

Can you give me an example of what you mean?
		
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Well, just this afternoon I had a dog walker chide me for 'sneaking up behind him'!


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## spookypony (7 September 2013)

Buddy'sMum said:



			Well, just this afternoon I had a dog walker chide me for 'sneaking up behind him'! 

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I like riding a Ninja Stealth Pony! Maybe I should get him a black hood thing!


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## cptrayes (7 September 2013)

Buddy'sMum said:



			Well, just this afternoon I had a dog walker chide me for 'sneaking up behind him'! 

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He'd have to have been half asleep or deaf to accuse me of that on my horses


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## twiggy2 (7 September 2013)

cptrayes said:



			He'd have to have been half asleep or deaf to accuse me of that on my horses  

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me too but then I have a gob and am not afraid to use it

'horse behind you' usually does the job

and i usually meet more people on the farm tracks and bridle paths where neither shod nor unshod hooves make much noise


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## Alyth (8 September 2013)

Buddy'sMum said:



			Really? A child expresses an opinion and you think it's acceptable for adults to call her names?
		
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IMO if a child is posting on a public forum she is treated like an adult and if the comments show a lack of understanding she will get responses that relate to the lack.......


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## Alyth (8 September 2013)

Kenzo said:



			I think there are instances when riding on the roads where it's handy (for safey)that people hear them coming that's all.
		
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Riders have voices!!  It's not hard to call out 'rider coming up' or something similar.  I wish cyclists would do that!!


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## ester (8 September 2013)

Trailing the field in the rain to cut the grazing sample?? 

Used boots for a bit - got quite pro at them, could easily pop on or off as needed mid ride. Had thrush while frogs were improving but not since. No abscesses, I love the relative peace of our bf clip clip. During transition was a bit aware of surface/route planning but not any more.

I've also never met a bad opinion, everyone has just been interested if a little sceptical and as he has a certain fan base locally relieved to see him sound and out enjoying himself again


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## Kenzo (8 September 2013)

Alyth said:



			Riders have voices!!  It's not hard to call out 'rider coming up' or something similar.  I wish cyclists would do that!!
		
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I'm aware riders have voices.

But if don't see them or a potential situation,you wouldnt know to shout out (in some instances).

I'm not against BF horses, I've got one myself, I was simply saying it could be a downside at times because you can't hear them on the roads as much as shod horses.

Dog walkers for example, you may not see them but they would hear you coming sooner, in which case a loose excitable dog would be put on the lead sooner.  People in gardens/children playing (that you can not see if behind a fence or might think I wont do that as it might frighten the horse that's coming, therefore wait until you've rode past.  

I guess it depends where you ride however.


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## twiggy2 (8 September 2013)

Kenzo said:



			Dog walkers for example, you may not see them but they would hear you coming sooner, in which case a loose excitable dog would be put on the lead sooner.  People in gardens/children playing (that you can not see if behind a fence or might think I wont do that as it might frighten the horse that's coming, therefore wait until you've rode past.
		
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be nice to think a dog would not be loose on a road especially an excitable one
I want my horse to learn to deal with distractions so don't expect people to stop what they are doing for my dog. horses hooves shod or otherwise cannot be heard over motorised traffic and if the road is clear it is safe to deal with any issues people playing might raise.

your reason for barefoot being a downside is a load of tosh so i shall agree to disagree.


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## brucea (8 September 2013)

ShowjumpingPrincess said:



			you have to carefully select where you ride, cyclists,pedestrians and other horses cant hear you coming as shoes are noisier and it helps the horse develop a rhythm as he can hear his natural rhythm easier.
		
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You can always buy your horse a set of bells. ;-)


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## Kenzo (8 September 2013)

twiggy2 said:



			be nice to think a dog would not be loose on a road especially an excitable one
I want my horse to learn to deal with distractions so don't expect people to stop what they are doing for my dog. horses hooves shod or otherwise cannot be heard over motorised traffic and if the road is clear it is safe to deal with any issues people playing might raise.

your reason for barefoot being a downside is a load of tosh so i shall agree to disagree.
		
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My original reply was to the OP, my opinion based on experiences where I ride, which could be much differnt to where you ride.

I agree, I don't expect people to stop what they are doing either, never have done but accidents can happen. 

Sometimes people do have loose dogs on the country lanes where we are.

For you to say that is a load of tosh, just because you do not agree or have not had the disadvantage like I have (at times) I think is a little rude.


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## Scarlett (8 September 2013)

Personally I find mine make just as much noise on the road as they did when shod, my big lad in particular has a proper 'clip clop', when he hacked out with a shod horse the rider commented on how noisy he was. It's a lovely noise


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## paddy555 (8 September 2013)

Kenzo said:



			Sometimes people do have loose dogs on the country lanes where we are.
		
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loose dogs are loose dogs and my horse's foot status doesn't make any difference. If the owner has control they will call them in and if they don't and the dog is coming towards me out of control I will call out and ask the owner to call their dog back. If it keeps coming then I let my very well trained horse sort it out himself. Barefoot is an advantage for the dog owners that will not control their dogs as a kick from a barefoot will not hurt the dog as much. 

Most of the downsides mentioned are not important. Frogs especially. Barefoot horses  have frogs like thick leather. Try cutting one with a knife and then try cutting a frog on a shod horse. You soon see the difference. 
The only downside I have come across, which is particuarly relevant at the moment, is hedge trimming if you ride on roads with thorn hedges which have just been cut. Blackthorn in foot usually equals abscess.

As for walkers being fast asleep and not hearing the horse behind it is up to them to make sure they are aware of what is going on. If my horse can creep up behind then so could an attacker or rapist on a quiet lane.


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## amandap (8 September 2013)

I find it fascinating the downsides are all to do with the impact on us humans. Inconvenience, can't go where we want sometimes, have to learn more etc. etc. etc.


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## Jas123 (8 September 2013)

The sound of a shod horse, especially trotting, knocks me sick. I just think of the concussion with evey metallic clack. 
I can't believe the noise is considered to be a good thing at all!!! They make cars quieter, people should be more observant!!!


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## Clava (8 September 2013)

amandap said:



			I find it fascinating the downsides are all to do with the impact on us humans. Inconvenience, can't go where we want sometimes, have to learn more etc. etc. etc.
		
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Of course it is, we ride horses for our convenience not the horses, if they weren't ridden there would be no discussion. However, I think the effort that goes into keeping a horse barefoot is worth all or any inconveniences as I value having a healthy horse and healthy hooves.


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## fattylumpkin (8 September 2013)

Have to agree with many, digging around in your horse's foot in search of gravel was a new experience for me when I took on Lena.  I'm pretty amazed at how deep it can work itself into the white line, and those tiny little bits of grit can turn into an abcess if they aren't rooted out properly, so that's always in the back of my mind.

If the field gets really wet and boggy I spend a lot of time worrying about her feet.  Lena has 24/7 turnout with a gravelled shelter and a heated stable, but come rainy soggy weather she's sure to be found squelching about in the soggiest bit of the field.

Dry weather is annoying too, I regularly took her for a dip in the lake this Summer and you could hear the relief when she let her feet have a good soak!


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## Goldenstar (8 September 2013)

In my experiance the biggest downside of the bare foot horse is that it works best when work levels are kept very level and increases in work are done gradually the feet find sudden increases in work load hard to manage .
I keep mine barefoot in period of gentle training and shoe when they are doing a lot it works well they move between shod and unshod very easily .
I have not had trouble with abbcesses and was always pretty fussy about hoof care so thrush is not really an extra issue.
The diet stuff is just good healthy management anyway .


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## LucyPriory (8 September 2013)

The biggest 'downside' is that keeping your horse unshod is that it reflects on our collective ability to manage our horses.  As an example, healthy, well kept horses don't have a stretched white line, so grit getting in is not an issue.  That sounds harsh, it's not meant to be, its just what I see on a daily basis.  Some owners/carers are hostage to their livery conditions.  I welcome the day when livery yards are run with the horse's well being is the priority rather than for example 'chocolate box' settings.


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## OldNag (8 September 2013)

ShowjumpingPrincess said:



			you cant put in studs, you cant have remadial shoeing, you have to put in a lot more time and effort to ensure they are healthy barefoot, you have to use hoof boots which i have heard rub and annoy the horse, you have to carefully select where you ride, cyclists,pedestrians and other horses cant hear you coming as shoes are noisier and it helps the horse develop a rhythm as he can hear his natural rhythm easier.
		
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Have to disagree. 
I have 3 barefoot. I don't use hoofboots at all. Have never had an issue with other road users  not hearing us... we are quite noisy enough. And we don't have a problem with rhythm either.   
I haven't yet found a downside, only benefits,  sorry.


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## brucea (8 September 2013)

LucyPriory said:



			The biggest 'downside' is that keeping your horse unshod is that it reflects on our collective ability to manage our horses.  As an example, healthy, well kept horses don't have a stretched white line, so grit getting in is not an issue.  That sounds harsh, it's not meant to be, its just what I see on a daily basis.  Some owners/carers are hostage to their livery conditions.  I welcome the day when livery yards are run with the horse's well being is the priority rather than for example 'chocolate box' settings.
		
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Absolutely Lucy

And spin the question the other way round - downsides of shoes. Long term hoof damage, inhibited growth and development, inability to develop adaptive asymmetry, hoof damage on removal, risk of pricking and driving the nail too deep,  navicular damage, risks to other horses and people, increased concussion for the rider and horse  etc., and £80 every six weeks to replace them. Add in a long wait for a rude, hostile farrier who may not bother to turn up and won't bother giving you the courtesy of a phone call too.

Not a lot to like is there really


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## twiggy2 (8 September 2013)

brucea said:



			Absolutely Lucy

And spin the question the other way round - downsides of shoes. Long term hoof damage, inhibited growth and development, inability to develop adaptive asymmetry, hoof damage on removal, risk of pricking and driving the nail too deep,  navicular damage, risks to other horses and people, increased concussion for the rider and horse  etc., and £80 every six weeks to replace them. Add in a long wait for a rude, hostile farrier who may not bother to turn up and won't bother giving you the courtesy of a phone call too.

Not a lot to like is there really 

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agree with all Lucy posted and everything except the farrier bit in your post brucea - my farrier is great, does not want to put shoes on horses unless they need them, is always on time, polite, funny and great with the horses and that is over a 27yr period and many horses.


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## stencilface (8 September 2013)

twiggy2 said:



			agree with all Lucy posted and everything except the farrier bit in your post brucea - my farrier is great, does not want to put shoes on horses unless they need them, is always on time, polite, funny and great with the horses and that is over a 27yr period and many horses.
		
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Ditto this, we've had the same guy for 30 years now, always on time, early annoyingly sometimes, quick to come out for lost shoes/problems, he can be a bit grumpy, but he's a Yorkshireman so that's to be expected! We do always feed him coffee and biscuits, and he'll be getting presents this year as thanks for ll his work over the years 

But I will be stealing your 'adaptive asymmetry' description to explain to people why I am trying to bf my horse brucea, beats the half baked 'I'm letting his feet go wonky to compensate for his wonky legs' description I currently give!


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## brucea (9 September 2013)

Ha - I give a natural process a pseudo scientific name and suddenly folks start using it and it "sounds" like it is a really good idea to encourage it because it sounds like something a vet might say!!!   Better than my other gem the "Barefoot Taliban" though!


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## FfionWinnie (9 September 2013)

I don't actually find the management side all that onerous. Initially I worried a lot (passing endurance vettings on stoney tracks will do that!) but really none of its rocket science, once you have a routine its hard at all.


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## LucyPriory (9 September 2013)

FfionWinnie said:



			I don't actually find the management side all that onerous. Initially I worried a lot (passing endurance vettings on stoney tracks will do that!) but really none of its rocket science, once you have a routine its hard at all.
		
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I have some sympathy for those with horses at livery on the M25 loop.  There is a lot of 'pretty pretty', polished concrete, profits and the grass must look 'nice' at all times. So horses either have to have reduced turn out, grazing muzzles or both.  Some yards even ban hay soaking.  I do wish more people could vote with their feet (no pun intended) but they then end up having to travel many miles further and then it's harder for them to look after their horse :-(


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## AngieandBen (9 September 2013)

Well I only have unshod horses on my yard ;  I decided three years ago when I had my then 18 year old ponies shoes off that I would adapt my yard to their needs even if it meant more work for me; 

All four thrive, especially my friends laminitic horse who has been with me for a year now;  We did the Burghley Sponsored ride yesterday and she is so thrilled  he was almost pts 18 months ago! And only 2 miles from her home

Simple track system, strip grazing, access to large concrete yard and hay during the day.   Fast Fibre with magnesium/salt and linseed in winter.


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## Lancelot (9 September 2013)

Mine slips on our concrete yard when its wet, he went down on his bum in the early days and has been very careful in wet conditions ever since. Not such a bad thing really I guess! I find having to pre plan where I am going to ride a bit of a downside but if I flip that round, it really means I have to be more considerate to my horse which is never a bad thing


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## Nudibranch (9 September 2013)

The only downside I have found is that vets don't seem to believe that horses can exist without shoes. Mine is booted occasionally if we are going over rough ground, when I told the vet that he said "Why don't you put shoes on her? It's easier." He also appears to believe it would be a good option for managing arthritis...???


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## pines of rome (9 September 2013)

One of the biggest downsides for me is the constant worry of his he footy, is he sore, has he got LGL! As for my vet, his views on barefoot have improved and even though he thinks shoes are the way to go with my boy, he does understand my reasoning for not shoeing and he agrees with me that my boy,s feet do look better than they did shod!


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## pinklilly (9 September 2013)

Someone I know has a barefoot endurance horse and she wasn't heard by a couple  having a spot of fellatio midday and in broad daylight!  Then again they wouldn't have heard someone walking past either!

My horse hasn't had any abscesses, he's had a bruised foot but had far more bother when he removed his own shoes in the field!

I have just moved yards as the grazing at my last yard was purely rye grass and didn't suit.  My horse suffers from mild laminitis so he's managed as a 'barefoot' anyway.  He does have all four feet naked now.  I find it's easier to see the early warning signs of problems, rather than if he was shod which would cover them up a bit.  I do have to be vigilant with him anyway because of his health aspects.  My vet was very pro shoe but the horse was lame in front until I took off the front shoes and he was immediately sound, and you can't argue with that.


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## undergroundoli (9 September 2013)

pinklilly said:



			Someone I know has a barefoot endurance horse and she wasn't heard by a couple  having a spot of fellatio midday and in broad daylight!  Then again they wouldn't have heard someone walking past either!
		
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Lol.

When I lived in Wales the were lots of lanes with corners and its nice to be able to hear if the is something coming round them as obviously one can't see. It was definitly possible for a cyclist to end up on a walker and neither party to be at fault. IME some unshod horses are louder than others and while in some places a warning noise isn't necessary in others it is. I like the suggestion of bells.

I don't find that being rude to people leads to them thinking they can respect my opinion and learn from what I'm telling them.


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