# Professional schooling - yay or nay?



## {97702} (17 November 2017)

Would you consider asking a professional you trusted to school your horse if you had the opportunity? What would your reasons be for yes or no? Just curious


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## MissGee (17 November 2017)

Yes definitely!


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## DiNozzo (17 November 2017)

Only if there was the opportunity to have lessons as well as the schooling.


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## Cortez (17 November 2017)

Yes: that's what a professional is for, surely? I'm amazed at the number of people who struggle along without it occurring to them to take lessons or get a trainer on the horse.


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## LeannePip (17 November 2017)

YES YES YES

Especially if its your YO, I wouldn't hesitate.  

We seek professional advice on so many different aspects of our horses, having a professional school your horse a few times or more frequently isn't a failure or an easy way out atall.  I really like to see a pro on my horse and then get a few lessons from them.


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## Tr0uble (17 November 2017)

Now, not unless it was a structured programme of them training the horse and then lessons for me - with the aim of progressing the horse and teaching me alongside.

Even then I'm not sure as I like to do things myself with the help of a trainer.

But, I did get a professional to back her. She was a sensitive horse to back (a little cold backed and hated the leaning over stage!) and my nerves got in the way and I made the decision to let someone bolder than me do the first bit so I wasn't creating issues.

Best thing I ever did, and I now have a lovely straight forward horse who's done very well competing. They basically just taught her how to carry a horse forward softly, and installed the basic WTC buttons. I had them come for around 3 months at the very end of her 3 year old year into the start of her 4 year old year, and then I started riding her before they stopped so it was a gradual handover.


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## humblepie (17 November 2017)

Gosh yes - for most of us the horses are not the day job and so whilst we like to think we can do it, we can't always.  Edited as realised didn;t say why - I was struggling a bit with mine, not his fault but whilst I have ridden for years, I hadn;t ever really taught a horse the bits he needed to learn and so it was much better for someone else to help him.   I haven't had anyone else school him now for a couple of years but i am struggling with something so am going to ask someone to ride him to help with it.  The poor animal puts up with enough of my bad riding, he deserves someone who can show help not hinder him.


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## GTRJazz (17 November 2017)

I sent one of my horses to be professionally schooled what a difference, that was in September have been getting her to ride him at our yard three times a week since I also hop on so my many schooling faults can be rectified. All done very kindly without whips spurs or shouting .
She works with vets too and can determine if the horse needs schooling or has medical issues


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## milliepops (17 November 2017)

Personally, probably not these days, though I do have very regular lessons and I know my trainer would have a sit on if it was necessary. I considered getting one of them on when trying to teach Millie changes, to see if it was her or me that was causing the muddle, but we got through it a different way.  I do have the time to train my horses entirely myself and happily we haven't got stuck too often   Plus I'm a bit territorial 

However, I definitely think that it can be helpful in some circumstances, can certainly help to move the horse on a bit which is just the ticket if horse/rider combination have got stuck in a rut.  No point battling on in misery if there's an alternative that can help to get things progressing again


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## {97702} (17 November 2017)

Lol LeannePip you have hit the nail on the head with my concerns 

YO has schooled Jensen twice now, and I am amazed at the difference! His left canter (always a problem) has improved massively, and she has said she will pop him over a grid next week to get him jumping again

I can have regular jump lessons with her in the future so it can all be part of a structured plan, but it still feels like cheating to me? I am mentally wrestling with the dilemma


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## Asha (17 November 2017)

Its far from cheating ! its helping to get the best out of your horse / train them so they can help you a little.  I use pro's all the time. My 2 homebreds are schooled and competed by pro's. The horse I ride has been ridden by a pro. When I needed help with her to do things I couldn't. So for example, I used a pro to jump her for the first time, I wanted it to be a great experience rather than me going oh ****, whats going to happen. Then I used a pro to take her xc schooling for the first time, purely because we had hit a problem with the water. So rather than it build up to be a big problem,  get a pro to help. The pro teaches me as well, so he knows what she is like under saddle, and also how rubbish I am. We get so much out of lessons as he knows us both.


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## gallopingby (17 November 2017)

Only if I trusted the professional and could be sure they would do exactly as I wanted, also would depend on the qualifications/experience of the professional. Far too many people setting themselves up to do this who have little experience let alone qualifications - and I mean achievements rather than having passed BHS exams.


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## monte1 (17 November 2017)

LeannePip said:



			YES YES YES

Especially if its your YO, I wouldn't hesitate.  

We seek professional advice on so many different aspects of our horses, having a professional school your horse a few times or more frequently isn't a failure or an easy way out atall.  I really like to see a pro on my horse and then get a few lessons from them.
		
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Yes for me as well, as LP says it really makes all the difference


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## milliepops (17 November 2017)

Lévrier;13672044 said:
			
		


			L
I can have regular jump lessons with her in the future so it can all be part of a structured plan, but it still feels like cheating to me? I am mentally wrestling with the dilemma 

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you need to balance your desire to avoid "cheating" with your ability to be patient and struggle through it yourself   If she can shuffle you both along a bit, isn't that going to mean that you can get to do the bits you enjoy more speedily...? what's making you hesitate?


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## Snowfilly (17 November 2017)

As long as I'd seen them ride before and liked what I saw, yes, yes and yes. I also wouldn't be too fussed about qualifications and results - I know a few excellent riders who have never fancied going down that route but get horses going sweetly and effectively. 

I wouldn't even be too bothered about if they can do follow ups - we go to one off clinics with big names or visiting instructors so why shouldn't there be value in having a pro ride once? If nothing else, you'll get to watch your horse from the ground and that can be very valuable.


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## Cortez (17 November 2017)

I agree that the term "professional" and "qualifications" in this part of the world are no guarantee that the person to whom they are attached are actually capable, but the true pro riders/trainers will have reputations to match. A properly trained professional trainer will make life a lot easier for your horse (and thus, hopefully, you) by showing the horse how to do stuff that the owner may not know, thus speeding up the whole training process, removing confusion for the horse and generally making life more pleasant.


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## NinjaPony (17 November 2017)

If you trust your YO and she is making a difference then go for it!! My instructor schools my pony once a week and it makes a big difference-she can help him work through things he finds tricky and introduce him to new things before I do, which helps both him and me!


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## SEL (17 November 2017)

I'm very picky - only one other person has been up on mine - but it was a good call as she was able to help overcome some problems.

This was someone I had quietly watch ride other horses, liked her no-nonsense approach but also the fact that she was able to 'feel' rather than just demand. All the qualifications in the world (& she has a fair few) can't ensure someone has that feel.


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## Boysy (17 November 2017)

I would love for my trainer to get up on mine but given I am of the vertically challenged and therefore have small ponies and she is of the extra tall variety it just won't work without roller skates  So I just keep on with lessons with her doing really well to teach me from the ground.

However if a small pro came along that I did actually like then I wouldn't hesitate to have them up on the ponies, trouble is I haven't found a single small one anywhere around me.....


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## Lanky Loll (17 November 2017)

Yes - I don't have time to ride everyday and this time of year is really hard due to no lights, working fulltime etc so the opportunity for someone that I trusted to give a tune up or help us continue to progress rather than stagnate/go backwards would be ideal.


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## LeannePip (17 November 2017)

Lévrier;13672044 said:
			
		


			Lol LeannePip you have hit the nail on the head with my concerns 

YO has schooled Jensen twice now, and I am amazed at the difference! His left canter (always a problem) has improved massively, and she has said she will pop him over a grid next week to get him jumping again

I can have regular jump lessons with her in the future so it can all be part of a structured plan, but it still feels like cheating to me? I am mentally wrestling with the dilemma 

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milliepops said:



  
you need to balance your desire to avoid "cheating" with your ability to be patient and struggle through it yourself   If she can shuffle you both along a bit, isn't that going to mean that you can get to do the bits you enjoy more speedily...? what's making you hesitate?
		
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Exactly ^^  There's a HUGE difference between having a pro ride your horse so you can get on the end result and say 'Oooh, look at my fancy horse, how clever I am to have such a fancy horse blah blah blah' and take all the credit for it (cheating) and having a pro help you from the floor and by riding your horse; Nudging you BOTH along so you can learn together (not cheating).

Knowing who it is you are asking for help and assistance, I wouldn't hesitate.  You will still learn so much by being part of the process 

Just go for it!


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## nikicb (17 November 2017)

Yes, as part of an overall programme of development that I am very much involved in, rather than just handing over the horse and receiving a 'finished product' at the end.  I have found it useful to send Cassie for a week's schooling livery with my trainer when I have been away, not least because we both sometimes get wrapped up in an issue and having someone less emotionally involved getting on board can break that cycle.  That routine works for me now as mine are kept at home, but when I had my old mare on full livery, my YO, who was my instructor as well before we relocated, would school once a week or so.


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## JFTDWS (17 November 2017)

I'd be very, very careful about any professional I used in those circumstances.  I would have to have absolute faith in their skill, style and mentality before I considered it - I see far too many "professionals", some with "qualifications" and many with reasonable competitive records, who are frankly disgraceful, and I wouldn't let sit on one of mine, let alone pay them to school a horse for me.  Sadly, as in much of life, these people are often blessed with unshakeable confidence in their dubious skill set, and think they're the dog's *******s.  Thus novice and incompetent owners are taken in...

That said, in your situation, your YO is a bit different (unless I'm mistaken?)...


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## honetpot (17 November 2017)

Most of us to have horses keep them for a long time, and they adapt to our 'language'.
  I have had a pro sit on one in a lesson just to see if she could see if it could get it, tops 10 minutes. I have also sent ponies away to pros to learn things my daughters did not have the competence to teach them. You often get back a sharper animal, they use their weight differently and expect them to be more off the leg, and can cope. They also usually have better facilities and want quicker results, to show they are worth their fee, so you may get something back that's sharper and knows more than you and you may not have the right place to ride it. If they are working it every day it could be fitter than you are used to as well.
   I think the best thing is to find a trainer that is training the horse with you that has your competency and goals in mind.


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## rara007 (17 November 2017)

How do you define professional... I pay someone to work mine up to 4 days a week, she is a professional horse workers come groom come dog walker come house sitter. She makes her living from (largely) horses and she does 'school' mine (long reining and inhand work). I'm at a higher level than her overall (competitively, in experience and in teaching Quals). Most weeks she does 1-2 days, my work/life balance and aims mean realistically I need help getting the fitness in! I don't use her for lessons and don't watch her working him.


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## wingedhorse (17 November 2017)

Lévrier;13672006 said:
			
		


			Would you consider asking a professional you trusted to school your horse if you had the opportunity? What would your reasons be for yes or no? Just curious 

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I'd be very not keen to send my horses to a professional yard. I have no issue with a professional riding them to resolve an issue or teach them something, or ride through a problem if I was struggling or not able to ride. 

It is one of the tools available when building a support team for your horse. Good yard, good vet, good farrier, good bodyworkers, good trainers, good back up riding support if needed etc. 

What I'd not do is pay lots for a professional to ride my horse as really I need the lessons to ride them myself, and if professional improves them beyond my skills I will only de-school them. (My horses aren't youngsters).


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## {97702} (17 November 2017)

Thanks for the responses, they have been very helpful - and for LP and MP who know my YO (and others who have good memories for trivia  ) then yes I would agree that she isnt the standard sort of YO  

Asking the question has made me realise that what Ive been lucky to experience can only be good for me and for Jensen - so I shall stop criticising myself and enjoy the benefits


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## GTRJazz (17 November 2017)

Lévrier;13672195 said:
			
		


			Thanks for the responses, they have been very helpful - and for LP and MP who know my YO (and others who have good memories for trivia  ) then yes I would agree that she isn&#8217;t the standard sort of YO  

Asking the question has made me realise that what I&#8217;ve been lucky to experience can only be good for me and for Jensen - so I shall stop criticising myself and enjoy the benefits 

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I was amazed who was using my trainer when I was down her yard two sisters who are high level jumpers had a young horse with her for breaking they already had four other broken by her, a girl from my old yard who had been thrown over a fence by her horse, my vet known for being a very abrupt and opinionated man (but a very good vet) a horse one of a pair that had nearly been staved to death now brought back to work. All potentially cheating as they never let on to me they used a trainer but I know the secret now.


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## Batgirl (17 November 2017)

Yes for lots of different reasons:
I have the privilege of Jane Bartle Wilson being near me and I treat myself to a lesson at Christmas.  I wanted her to ride to show me the potential of my horse (It gave me high hopes!)
I have my normal day to day instructor ride my horse sometimes when I am trying to figure out if it is me or the horse struggling (sometimes it is both!)
I used to get my instructor to help fix specific issues (e.g. striking off on the wrong leg when physical issues had been ruled out)

There is no cheating in horse riding, you still have to ride at the end of the day.


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## Girlracer (17 November 2017)

Yes absolutely! I have just sent my young horse for schooling with a pro, with the idea being I can then continue to visit her for lessons with a horse that she will know.


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## Cortez (17 November 2017)

I am fascinated at people thinking that having a professional train your horse is somehow "cheating".....Horse training is a complex, highly skilled occupation that requires long years of dedicated study and practise: why would people assume that it's just something that you can pick up casually, like knitting? 

I know that anyone can hang out a "Horse Trainer" sign, and that the qualifications on offer in this part of the world aren't exactly onerous (or particularly useful), but proven, effective training is not something that you just get the hang of by "bonding"...


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## Auslander (17 November 2017)

Cortez said:



			I am fascinated at people thinking that having a professional train your horse is somehow "cheating".....Horse training is a complex, highly skilled occupation that requires long years of dedicated study and practise: why would people assume that it's just something that you can pick up casually, like knitting?
		
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Couldn't agree more. It saddens me when I see people making a hash of breaking or schooling a nice horse, because they think they could /should do it themselves, even if they aren't in any way equipped with the experience/knowledge/skill to do it.


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## JFTDWS (17 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			Couldn't agree more. It saddens me when I see people making a hash of breaking or schooling a nice horse, because they think they could /should do it themselves, even if they aren't in any way equipped with the experience/knowledge/skill to do it.
		
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Bloody hard when your experience of professionals is pretty bleak though.

(I know a couple I trust within reason, but god knows I see a lot more of them who shouldn't be in charge of a rocking horse)


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## Auslander (17 November 2017)

JFTD said:



			Bloody hard when your experience of professionals is pretty bleak though.

(I know a couple I trust within reason, but god knows I see a lot more of them who shouldn't be in charge of a rocking horse)
		
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Obviously you have to pick your professional carefully! I have a select group of amazing horse people who I would send a horse to without hesitation. Never had to, as I muddle through pretty well on my own - but I've been doing it for a while, and I learned the craft before I tried to implement it


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## spacefaer (17 November 2017)

(not including your YO in the following comment, Levrier)

As long as the professional understood the difference between getting the horse going well for themselves, and training the horse to be rideable by the actual owner.

It's much easier to get on a horse and get a tune out of it, and make it look good (better than the owner can do) in a lesson situation, than  it is to school it on a longer term basis for the rider - it requires a lot more conscious thought about how the horse should be trained and going. Every time the professional rides the horse, the owner/rider should be foremost in the rider's mind - how they ride, what they struggle with, so that the horse can be improved with that rider in mind.


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## Cortez (17 November 2017)

If the overall standard of  training both horses and riders WAS more professional in this part of the world perhaps it wouldn't be so difficult to match the two things up? I don't get this "training the horse so the bloody awful owner can ride it" idea.


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## {97702} (17 November 2017)

spacefaer said:



			(not including your YO in the following comment, Levrier)

As long as the professional understood the difference between getting the horse going well for themselves, and training the horse to be rideable by the actual owner.

It's much easier to get on a horse and get a tune out of it, and make it look good (better than the owner can do) in a lesson situation, than  it is to school it on a longer term basis for the rider - it requires a lot more conscious thought about how the horse should be trained and going. Every time the professional rides the horse, the owner/rider should be foremost in the rider's mind - how they ride, what they struggle with, so that the horse can be improved with that rider in mind.
		
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Really really good point Spacefaer, I absolutely agree with you - I know we have discussed this before, and I had forgotten until you mentioned it, but yes totally!

I think I am incredibly lucky in that I have a YO who can ride J and improve him (plus giving me detailed feedback which luckily matches what I already know....) and a great trainer who can translate that to me and J working together if that makes sense?


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## {97702} (17 November 2017)

Cortez said:



			I am fascinated at people thinking that having a professional train your horse is somehow "cheating".....Horse training is a complex, highly skilled occupation that requires long years of dedicated study and practise: why would people assume that it's just something that you can pick up casually, like knitting? 

I know that anyone can hang out a "Horse Trainer" sign, and that the qualifications on offer in this part of the world aren't exactly onerous (or particularly useful), but proven, effective training is not something that you just get the hang of by "bonding"...
		
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I don't think anyone has suggested that it is easy?  I certainly don't think so - I was simply trying to establish the difference between working through a problem myself and finding the answer (albeit with the help of a fantastic trainer and a long period of time) and being presented with a solution 'here you are, I have fixed it' that potentially might result from a professional intervention.


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## Britestar (17 November 2017)

A slightly different slant on it, which probably doesn't apply to you.

I have a horse who is really too big for me. I'm 5'2" and he's nearly 16.3hh. It wasn't a choice, I bred him and he kept growing, so I'm stuck with him.

Whilst I would love to send him away to bring him on, at the end of the day, I'm the one who has to ride him, and nearly everyone is bigger/stronger than me. This means he can go beautifully for them, but I struggle to reproduce it with my short legs!

I've discussed it at length with trainers and we've come to the conclusion that its better that I get lots of input, but ultimately do it myself.


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## ihatework (17 November 2017)

Why would you not have a pro help if you can afford it?
When I was competing I had someone school mine for me at least once a fortnight, always good to have a little tune up!
These days I tend to send them away for short periods whilst I&#8217;m busy away with work.


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## Ahrena (19 November 2017)

I have in th past. 

I had some problems with my mare bucking in canter last year. I could sit them perfectly well but I couldn't stop her doing it. Once everything physical had been ruled out my dressage instructor got on a few times at the start of my lessons which helped us work through it.

Then in February I broke my collarbone/shoulder joint and couldn't ride for a few weeks so I had both my dressage and jump instructor ride her a few times to keep her ticking over. Thoroughly enjoyed being an 'owner' for a while


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## ILuvCowparsely (19 November 2017)

Lévrier;13672006 said:
			
		


			Would you consider asking a professional you trusted to school your horse if you had the opportunity? What would your reasons be for &#8216;yes&#8217; or &#8216;no&#8217;? Just curious 

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Yes I would and I am on many counts, even though I am a qualified BHS, this time round with my recent accidents and business in the yard. I don't have the interest to school my mare, partly because I prefer western schooling but also I have no interest in in English schooling anymore.  Also With my gelding out of action for 2 years I never rode from 2013 - 2015 so a lot of my muscles went, when I did ride again my mare fell on the road and fractured my shoulder which has left a disability and pain, and out of action for a further 4 months.. 


The other reason my trainer albeit same BHS qualifications as me is an amazing rider/trainer/person who is working and trained by a high professional  dressage rider so I get brilliant schooling and my mare has come on leaps and bounds  as we are playing the catch up game due to her lack of training in the first few years she is behind. 

  The same with jumping  reasons above too, have a Professional jumper training her weekly, as again we are playing catch up.


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## chestnut cob (19 November 2017)

I think it depends on what you're trying to achieve but I have done in the past. My DR trainer had my horse (now sold) in for schooling three times. Twice when I was on holiday and once after some time off. The difference in him after each "holiday" was fantastic. It also helped my lessons as she had felt what I did & so better helped me to deal with it. I wouldn't hesitate to send a future horse to her & have recommended her to loads of people.


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## j1ffy (20 November 2017)

Absolutely yes. My YO has schooled mine fairly often in the past, mostly due to me being busy with work, and it's helped keep them on the right track and also gives her insight that helps when she is teaching me. She also takes schooling liveries but usually horses belonging to people she teaches - I think this is a good combo as she can help the rider to maintain the training after the intense schooling period.

I'm not sure I'd send a horse away to a 'random' for training but I'd never say never, especially if the person was highly recommended and I'd seen their training methods.


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## rachk89 (20 November 2017)

I would send my horse off to be trained and competed by a professional if I could afford it. I'll never accomplish with him what someone better could. He has a lot of talent for dressage or jumping that I just can't use.  But can't afford it so he's stuck with me, but seems happy as we do nothing overly complicated and he gets to jump with someone else now and again to keep him happy.


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## NZJenny (20 November 2017)

So interesting and once again highlighting differences between the UK and NZ.

Very few people here would consider sending their horses away to be schooled by someone else.  Yes, you may pay someone else to start the horse under saddle, but lots of people, myself included have started our own.  I learnt from a book - the confidence of youth!  No one died, the horses have all turned out fine and I learnt a lot along the way.  These days however, I'm happy to pay someone else to do it as starting young horses needs a ton of confidence and that fades with age. 

Kiwi's are big on DIY - it's a national obsession!

What is more normal here is to have lessons with an instructor on said horse and this is how I have always worked.  I love learning how to do it myself and developing the feel required to school the horse.  Yes, sometimes we get it wrong, but that's called experience.  I'm not aiming for the Olympics and I don't own a horse for someone else to have the pleasure of riding it.  "Professional" doesn't really mean a lot (other than you pay them) and NZ isn't big on qualifications either.  Most people in the horse industry  trade on reputation and word of mouth and given that the horse world is very small here, news travels.


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## Oscar (24 November 2017)

Yes!! A pro can install buttons, teach it movements or help iron out any issues quicker than your average rider.  Many of us buy young or green horses as it's all we can afford so we often need a bit of extra help, there's no shame in that.  I'm not the worlds best rider but I school my oh's 4yo while he works away and he always says he feels better after I've ridden, I think because I'm quite black and white with him and oh may be a bit fluffier!!


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