# Omg... when will it end??



## maisie06 (5 February 2017)

I heard about a litter of puppies today.. Someone thought it would be a great idea to cross a spaniel and a Bassett.... They are called spassets and for a grand you could own one...... Why??? I mean they are not exactly compatible breeds for heaven sake..


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## Amymay (6 February 2017)

Head/ wall &#128547;


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## Teaselmeg (6 February 2017)

Poor puppies, it would seem adding Bassett is becoming a trend:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas...tafford/bassador-puppies-for-sale-493133.html


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## Moobli (6 February 2017)

Why ... Just why?!  A purposeful crossbreed with a particular function in mind and health tests done on the respective parents can be a worthwhile thing imo.  A crossbreed for the sake of a stupid name, no actual function and (more than likely) no health tests is done purely for profit and to fill the rescue centres


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## Clodagh (6 February 2017)

Get enough of them they would make a great bobbitty pack! Apart from that I see no positives at all.


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## paddy555 (6 February 2017)

when I was younger they would have been called "mongrels" and cost next to nothing.


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## alainax (6 February 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Get enough of them they would make a great bobbitty pack! Apart from that I see no positives at all.
		
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Google doesn't enlighten me here, please do tell what a bobbitty pack is?


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## stencilface (6 February 2017)

I wouldn't mind some of the designer cross breeds, beagle x pug seems like a good one I think? Pug gets a longer nose, beagle gets less likely to run off  (maybe?!). Would only get one if it was in a rescue kennel though. Couldn't imagine buying a family 'no purpose' dog. For 1k I imagine the OH would laugh for a week


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## Clodagh (6 February 2017)

stencilface said:



			I wouldn't mind some of the designer cross breeds, beagle x pug seems like a good one I think? Pug gets a longer nose, beagle gets less likely to run off  (maybe?!). Would only get one if it was in a rescue kennel though. Couldn't imagine buying a family 'no purpose' dog. For 1k I imagine the OH would laugh for a week 

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Puggles look like beagles that have been in a car crash! Seriously the uglist dogs ever, I have met 3 and all have had teeth at very odd angles and a face like...well, poor little dogs I am sure they were nice 'people'.


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## Clodagh (6 February 2017)

alainax said:



			Google doesn't enlighten me here, please do tell what a bobbitty pack is? 

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A random pack of mongrels that you would take out to hunt rabbits, next doors tom cat, squirrels, rats, anything that moved. They probably don't exist any more! Generally terrier based.


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## stencilface (6 February 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Puggles look like beagles that have been in a car crash! Seriously the uglist dogs ever, I have met 3 and all have had teeth at very odd angles and a face like...well, poor little dogs I am sure they were nice 'people'.
		
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I quite like them! Although not looked in any mouths lol.  Realistically I'll pick the saddest one in the kennels


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## baggyb (8 February 2017)

Teaselmeg - the advert you shared was mine. Nine gorgeous puppies, ones gone to a working home, ones staying with me and seven have super homes as family pets. Mongrels/crossbreeds- whatever you want to call them - can be superb dogs with great temperaments I'd cross us carefully selected and people shouldn't automatically condemn them


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## Clodagh (8 February 2017)

baggyb said:



			Teaselmeg - the advert you shared was mine. Nine gorgeous puppies, ones gone to a working home, ones staying with me and seven have super homes as family pets. Mongrels/crossbreeds- whatever you want to call them - can be superb dogs with great temperaments I'd cross us carefully selected and people shouldn't automatically condemn them
		
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Hello. Thank you for coming on to support your side. What has a bassett added to the lab? I am genuinely curious. The one that has gone to a working home, in what way will it be working? Again, no malice I am intrigued.


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## MyBoyChe (8 February 2017)

Like Clodagh, I am genuinely interested in why a lab x bassett is a good idea per se.  One is a hound, one a gun dog so for what purpose is the one who will be working, being used.  This is in no way aimed at you baggyb, but Im sure Im not alone in thinking that a lot of people put 2 dogs together to create a litter of puppies that they can give a "cute" breed name to and then charge ridiculous amounts of money for because of the cute name.  That said, I have met several cavachons and poodle crosses of various sorts that I would take home in a shot.  They have all had fab temperaments and seemed really personable little dogs.  My conscience just wouldnt let me fork out in the region of £800 though for what is essentially a crossbreed.  I only paid £200 for my springers and my jrt was swapped for a couple of horse rugs and some hay


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## Moobli (8 February 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Hello. Thank you for coming on to support your side. What has a bassett added to the lab? I am genuinely curious. The one that has gone to a working home, in what way will it be working? Again, no malice I am intrigued.
		
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Seconded.  As I said in my post, a well thought out crossbreed with a function in mind (and with both parents health tested) is no problem in my book.


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## honetpot (8 February 2017)

My neighbour bought the most ugly looking mastiff cross I have ever seen, they love her but agree she is no oil painting, they paid about £300 for her.
  Eight months later she is in pup buy accident  to their springador type dog, who actually looks like a pointer with a wavy coat. She has nine puppies who look like brown/black Labradors who found homes with two weeks of being offered for sale. The two they have kept, a dog and a bitch look nothing like their mother, both look like they would make good working dogs, very calm temperaments and could pass for working Labradors.
  I love mongrels, that's all I have ever had. They are cheap to keep, long lived and tend to have no health problems, I just would not pay hundreds for a first x mutt.


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## MotherOfChickens (8 February 2017)

honetpot said:



			They are cheap to keep, long lived and tend to have no health problems, .
		
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not always the case, my last one was PTS at 5. I do love an old fashioned mutt and would have another-they just aren't that easy to find these days! 

Personally I would avoid any dog with a long back and short legs in an un-health tested dog breed/mix (or even in a tested one, and I love dachs)-seen too many with back problems.


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## Clodagh (8 February 2017)

I too love mutts and have had lots. Ideally a collie x, they always seem to be healthy, and I wouldn't pay more than £150 for one.


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## willhegofirst (8 February 2017)

We have a collie x kelpie, advertised as a border collie, only found out about the kelpie bit when we picked her up, she was breed on a farm, working parents, couldn't wish for a better dog, great temperament very active as would expect. But, big but the chap selling them would have sold to anyone and she would not be suitable for a working family in a small house where she was left alone a lot.


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## meesha (8 February 2017)

When will people stop breeding !!! Nice little money spinner but FFS the whole country is overrun with dogs needing homes...  Sorry rant over but why would anyone want to sell their pet's babies?


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## Teaselmeg (8 February 2017)

baggyb said:



			Teaselmeg - the advert you shared was mine. Nine gorgeous puppies, ones gone to a working home, ones staying with me and seven have super homes as family pets. Mongrels/crossbreeds- whatever you want to call them - can be superb dogs with great temperaments I'd cross us carefully selected and people shouldn't automatically condemn them
		
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I would also be interested in why you added Bassett and what health tests were done.  I'm afraid calling them 'Bassadors'  rather than crossbreeds,  just smacked of jumping on the 'designer dog' bandwagon.


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## Moobli (9 February 2017)

meesha said:



			When will people stop breeding !!! Nice little money spinner but FFS the whole country is overrun with dogs needing homes...  Sorry rant over but why would anyone want to sell their pet's babies?
		
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There will always be place for responsible breeders who breed for a purpose (other than that of simply making a quick buck) and who aim to produce dogs that will excel in a particular sphere, including that of cherished companion.  I do agree there needs to be eradication of puppy farms, people breeding their pets simply to make money and with no care or thought given to where these pups end up.  Unfortunately in this country, there is a "must have" attitude and couple that with the throwaway mentality of so many, hence our numerous rescue centres are fit to burst with unwanted dogs.  Depressing.


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## GirlFriday (9 February 2017)

Of course if you actually look at rescues (I have been to a large number quite recently) you find that whilst there are plenty of bullbreeds/xs and JRT/xs calm family-friendly dogs, particularly relatively small ones, are actually in very short supply.

I have what is supposed to be one of these x-s. (Not any of the ones mentioned above and not by selecting for anything other than the characteristics I was looking for in a pet) and he is fantastic: great with children, healthy, happy in a wide variety of circs and very bright without being too demanding. He was rehomed but I have to say it was pretty difficult to do. Can absolutely see why people pay a lot for pet animals (very few dogs in this country actually 'work' as a percentage of the total canine population) and crosses will tend to have fewer extreme characteristics than pure breeds so why not?


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## Kaylum (10 February 2017)

Sorry but already as soon as there is an advert up that screams irresponsible breeding as if your breeding you should already have homes waiting and they should have been checked out. I just find the whole over breeding thing just money making. I to have been to rescues and quite a well known one where I got my little dog from. So the breeder never kept in touch obviously. So when selling these pups what is the process?


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## cremedemonthe (10 February 2017)

paddy555 said:



			when I was younger they would have been called "mongrels" and cost next to nothing.
		
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Exactly my thoughts too


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## Moobli (10 February 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Can absolutely see why people pay a lot for pet animals (very few dogs in this country actually 'work' as a percentage of the total canine population) and crosses will tend to have fewer extreme characteristics than pure breeds so why not?
		
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I certainly wouldn't disagree that crossbreeds and mongrels can make excellent family pets - but of course that would depend on the breeds involved.  I do have to question your last comment though as pedigree dogs are bred to a standard which includes specific desirable temperament traits so a prospective purchaser can choose a breed with traits and personality to suit their requirements.  No one can predict the percentage of characteristics a cross may have from each parent.  It may well end up with the best of both parents ... or the worst.


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## Moobli (10 February 2017)

Kaylum said:



			Sorry but already as soon as there is an advert up that screams irresponsible breeding as if your breeding you should already have homes waiting and they should have been checked out. I just find the whole over breeding thing just money making. I to have been to rescues and quite a well known one where I got my little dog from. So the breeder never kept in touch obviously. So when selling these pups what is the process?
		
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I am sure everyone has a differing view on what constitutes a good breeder.  My view is that it is, in most cases, unrealistic to have every puppy spoken for before the mating even takes place - after all, the mating may not be successful, it is impossible to know prior to mating how many pups will be born, people drop out of lists if they find a suitable puppy prior to the litter being born etc.  Good breeders certainly gauge interest though and perhaps have a waiting list for a percentage of the pups but I think it is acceptable to advertise a litter once born in certain places such as a breeder's own website, specialist breed and dog forums/publications etc but most definitely avoiding sites such as pets4homes, gumtree, preloved.  A good breeder chooses the homes their pups go to very carefully and have a contract that says the pup should be returned to themselves at any point in his/her life should the owner need to part with them for whatever reason.  The breeder should also offer a lifetime of backup should it be needed.  It is not common for breeders to do homechecks in the way of rescue, but I certainly believe, as a minimum, they should be finding out as much as possible about the prospective home and meeting potential owners a few times prior to agreeing to let them purchase a pup.  I would also be happy with a homecheck from a breeder if they felt that was necessary.


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## Clodagh (10 February 2017)

Our next lab pup will only be confirmed once we have been interviewed by the breedre's wife, to ensure we are suitable. She is only avaialbe as some one has dropped out. I am confident we will pass and have no problems with that, both the last two we had to be intensively questioned before being considered, which is as it should be.


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## Moobli (10 February 2017)

It is doubtful I will ever breed a litter of GSDs myself as I just don't think there are enough homes out there to satisfy my exacting criteria!

As my dog is to be used at stud later this year, I will have a hand in vetting any potential owners in the UK and the breeder has extremely high standards and will vet potential owners in Denmark.


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## MyBoyChe (10 February 2017)

WGSD, thats exactly why I have never bred a litter myself.  I just wouldnt be able to part with them, rightly or wrongly, noone would be quite good enough for one of my girls puppies


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## twiggy2 (10 February 2017)

MyBoyChe said:



			WGSD, thats exactly why I have never bred a litter myself.  I just wouldnt be able to part with them, rightly or wrongly, noone would be quite good enough for one of my girls puppies 

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But WGSD is breeding her dog


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## Moobli (10 February 2017)

Depends which way you look at it I suppose.  Yes my dog is to be used at stud - once.  I do not consider that makes me a breeder, but perhaps it does in someone else's book.


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## hopscotch bandit (10 February 2017)

I really don't understand why we have to breed so many animals in this country.  Not having a dig at people on this forum but can not understand the need to breed dogs when we put to sleep 17,000 dogs in the UK every year that are healthy due to not having room for them in animal shelters.  In America they routinely kill them by gassing them, I think the figure there is 170,000 per year!

One such video I watched years ago of a kill shelter on YouTube shows a variety of dogs being put in a box; beautiful creatures stuffed into the metal container, all shapes and sizes of dogs from old to puppies, some of them are trying to climb out of the box, not because they are necessarily scared but because they are wondering why they are in the box.  And little puppies, so full of innocence. They are just placed in the box on top of the bodies of other dogs that have just died, until the box can hold no more.    Then a fork lift comes along and throws them in a lorry to be incinerated.  Its heartbreaking.

So I would say that regardless of the breeds of dogs that are being 'engineered' these days, maybe some thought should be given to the dogs desperately waiting for their forever homes and stop breeding more.  Because the more that are bred the worse the situation will be.

I would never consider buying a dog from a breeder. My first point of call would always be to the local shelter.


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## paddy555 (10 February 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			So I would say that regardless of the breeds of dogs that are being 'engineered' these days, maybe some thought should be given to the dogs desperately waiting for their forever homes and stop breeding more.  Because the more that are bred the worse the situation will be.

I would never consider buying a dog from a breeder. My first point of call would always be to the local shelter.
		
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I do agree with you however I am hoping to buy a GSD from a breeder. (hopefully it will be a successful mating  but if not I shall try and find another breeder) 

I feel guilty that I am not taking a rescue dog as my first choice but over the years we must have taken around 10 cats from shelters and around the same number of  rescue horses, some very seriously damaged and numerous other unwanted small animals and poultry.  So I feel we have done our bit. I would like a dog without problems. I feel I could best achieve that from a puppy straight from the breeder. I also want a sweet, cute  and fluffy little puppy and there is nothing like a GSD puppy. 

If that doesn't work out I shall be back at a rescue no doubt!!


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## MotherOfChickens (10 February 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			I would never consider buying a dog from a breeder. My first point of call would always be to the local shelter.
		
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responsible breeders are not the problem. getting a dog from a rescue  (I've had more rescues than puppies over the years) is not all that easy-either through rescues being stringent about the wrong things (imo), or because most dogs in rescue are so badly socialised they aren't then equipped for a broad range of homes down the line. I will not feel guilty for buying quality pups from a good breeder and nor would I rule out another rescue. 

The welfare crisis is not my doing nor that of the breeders I have bought from.


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## CorvusCorax (10 February 2017)

If someone wanted a top showjumping or dressage prospect, no one on here would advise them to go to their nearest horse rescue, but nobody could deny there is an equine welfare crisis.
Stopping or boycotting responsible/ethical and performance breeding in dogs or horses will not solve the problem.


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## smja (10 February 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			I would never consider buying a dog from a breeder. My first point of call would always be to the local shelter.
		
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For me, it would very much depend what I wanted the dog for, and also if a shelter had a dog that was suited to me - for both my sake, and the dog's. Not all dogs are the same, and horses for courses.

Much like the arguments about breeding horses, the responsible breeders aren't contributing to the crisis. It's the ones who breed to make quick cash without thought to the future that are the problem.


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## Kaylum (10 February 2017)

What exactly is responsible breeding? Years ago we had waiting lists for good breeders and they were very well known nowadays everyone is breeding anything.


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## CorvusCorax (10 February 2017)

Years ago (this is purely from my own experience) people bred for a purpose (show/work/competition/farm dogs/hunting/shooting) and those that didn't make the grade made house pets. If a dog had a problem either physical or mental you dealt with it yourself, gave it to someone you actually knew, or put it to sleep and you definitely didn't breed it. Now the market seems to be predominantly driven by people who want cute and untroublesome pets and when there's trouble it gets moved on. And the breeding for looks and looks alone (which is not just driven by  show breeders might I add) has let temperament and physical issues slide and removed some or all of the traits that makes those breeds what they are.

There were always crap breeders though.


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## Bosworth (10 February 2017)

With my own breed of dogs (bedlingtons) we are extremely lucky as there are very few in rescue, and those that are are normally moved to our breed rescue team who have a waiting list of people wanting to home a bedlington. If I want a good Bedlington, with all the health checks in place who is CT free I will have to wait a long while. If I want a designer dog, I can buy one from a back street greeder tomorrow. The problem lies with the purchasers, whilever people want to buy a designer dog some back street greeder will breed it for them. In the pub last week I met someone who had bought a blue french bulldog for £4000 with the only purpose of breeding blue french bull dogs from her. Blues are not able to be registered so loads of un registered un health checked expensive breeding machines being produced. He had no thought other than the £4000 he had paid for her, and the £4000 he could get per puppy.


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## blackcob (10 February 2017)

Nabbed from the husky rescue I volunteer for as it's a nice summary, IMO.




			Firstly, breeding as such, is not the problem. The problem (which necessitates the existence of SHWA and all the other husky rescues) is irresponsible commercial breeding. Since we started SHWA in February 2007, less than half of one percent of the dogs we have taken in have originated from breeders we would characterise as "responsible, ethical breeders" (three dogs in all). In all of these cases the breeders have taken back their dogs immediately and arranged for their private rehoming. All the other dogs we have taken in were bred by irresponsible, commercial breeders - whether large scale puppy farmers, backyard breeders or (increasingly) naive/stupid/greedy "pet" breeders.

Secondly, the few good, ethical, responsible breeders we have in the UK (and they are in a tiny minority) are absolutely crucial in maintaining the health, temperament and nature of the breed in this country. These breeders study bloodlines, match pedigrees, assess conformation, assess working ability, test for health and temperament issues and always have the future of the breed in the forefront of their breeding programmes. Compare that with the "commercial breeders" - no health tests, rarely bother with KC registration, no temperament tests, no research on bloodlines of pedigrees, total lack of knowledge or interest in working ability or conformation - basically putting any old dog to any old bitch to produce a profitable "product." 

Without the ethical, responsible breeders, our wonderful breed would go downhill very quickly - already we are seeing an increasing incidence of eye problems, hip problems, temperament issues, conformation problems amongst the rescue dogs we take in. If it were not for the few responsible breeders, within a very few generations, our breed would become unrecognisable.
		
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## Cinnamontoast (10 February 2017)

Double post.


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## Cinnamontoast (10 February 2017)

There's an idiot in the Midlands, I think, who runs a boarding kennels and uses entire males, unbeknownst to the owners, on any bitch he can find. His much used bull cross looks like Jabba the hut, butt ugly. He was producing basset crosses with appalling Queen Anne legs, seriously exaggerated out turned deformed legs. He pops up to troll Pet Forums occasionally. Total idiot. 



honetpot said:



			I love mongrels, that's all I have ever had. They are cheap to keep, long lived and tend to have no health problems, I just would not pay hundreds for a first x mutt.
		
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That's a very sweeping statement. My purebred Keeshond was 15 when he died, my purebred springer is nearly 14. How are they cheap to keep? They eat the same as other dogs, can have accidents same as a pure bred. The only way we can try to ensure good health of a litter is by carrying out the recommended breed health tests on the sire and dam before breeding.


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## CorvusCorax (10 February 2017)

blackcob said:



			Nabbed from the husky rescue I volunteer for as it's a nice summary, IMO.
		
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Brilliant synopsis.

From a brief scan of the free ad sites just this week, I have found a bitch my friend sold pretty locally as a pet, in a different country with a litter on the ground, and a half brother/half sister mating with the sire being barely a year old. And because of the location I can bet those pups will grow up and be mated to more close relatives :/
I know that because I know the lines and the names and can do my research...an unsuspecting puppy buyer generally won't.


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## Cinnamontoast (11 February 2017)

Call me suspicious, but does the dam of this litter look more like a springer/munsterlander? I was just being nosy to see if there are litters out there, I know they're in rainfall uncommon. Dad looks like what I'd expect. Pups have odd markings. 

http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/1487363-two-english-setter-boy-pups-solihull.html


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## MotherOfChickens (11 February 2017)

the working English setters you see in Europe are somewhat more substantial than the UK show types. Markings look alright for working type to me in the pups-there's a lot of variation in face markings in the working type (mum is quite dark though). I looked into English setters but there are too many health problems with them in the UK, especially show type. Many UK rescue setters are European in origin and have leish. 

There a few good breeders of working types in the UK (that use a few European stud dogs & that are also health testing) that I manage to track down and speak to. Seems a shame to me that setters are not fashionable over here as gun dogs when they are used such a lot in Europe. Maybe people just can't train them here anymore 


eta these breeders were advertising pups last summer I'm sure.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 February 2017)

http://www.upperwoodsetters.com/working-english-setters.html


this kennels breed both types and you can see the difference in the markings.


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## Cinnamontoast (11 February 2017)

Thanks for that, lovely looking dogs. I'm swayed towards the paler ones, like Underwood Clover. Is that more of a show type? I'm interested in the hip scores, will google average, it's something I'd want to be sure about with any future pup.

Edit: 16, according to a link I found. The dog above is 12 on one side, although the link did explain that the median score can be raised by one poorly scoring dog, of course.

I really, really like the look of the setter.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 February 2017)

tbh that site nixes my broadband lol! I like the darker ones personally. join a couple of English setter FB groups and get a feel for the problems. hypothyroidism is a problem in the breed, as are hips and skin allergies-having lived with skin allergies in my last setter I'd just say they aren't all easily controllable and can be costly to diagnose and manage. The only English setter I know personally is a walking disaster vet wise and is only 4 yo so breeder research is very important. also bear in mind the grooming issues-especially in neutered setters. I think they are beautiful dogs with a lovely character.


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## honetpot (11 February 2017)

As to mutts being long lived and healthy, I can only speak as I find. From a teenager as family we have always had Heinz57, or xbreed x xbreed. They have all lived well into their teens, only needed the vet for neutering and the final PTS. None of my animals are insured and as I have my vets bills for the last 40 years, apart from the blooming cat being knocked over in 1980, which cost £120, a fortune at the time, that is the biggest bill I have ever had.
  Its well known that the wider the gene pool the less likely you are have hereditary diseases passed on, that's in a normal population because if you have a recessive 'bad' gene if your mate comes from a different genetic family they are less likely to carry that recessive 'bad' gene, the two 'bad' genes combine. 
  I suppose in horses the best expression of this is HWSD in Connemara's. If you are breeding pure breeds you need to know that the potential sire and dam do not carry the gene, although they will be healthy. If they are breeding a x breed there is far less chance with mating with a carrier.
  I am not saying the all mutts live for ever, but they are genetically likely to be more diverse, therefore have hybrid vigour. The worrying thing about breeding dogs to be extra small etc, is the breeds that are smaller may come originally from the same genetic ancestors although they look like different breeds now.


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## debsandpets (11 February 2017)

Saw another cross breed advertised today - cavalier King Charles crossed with a golden retriever !!!!!! I mean seriously WHY !!!???!!!???


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## Cinnamontoast (11 February 2017)

Think I prefer the flecking, no dark patches. I'm aware that's very superficial of me and health of the pup is more important!



debsandpets said:



			Saw another cross breed advertised today - cavalier King Charles crossed with a golden retriever !!!!!! I mean seriously WHY !!!???!!!???
		
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Dear god, I hope the dam was the goldie


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## debsandpets (11 February 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			Think I prefer the flecking, no dark patches. I'm aware that's very superficial of me and health of the pup is more important!



Dear god, I hope the dam was the goldie 

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So do I !!!


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## MotherOfChickens (11 February 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			Think I prefer the flecking, no dark patches. I'm aware that's very superficial of me and health of the pup is more important!
		
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no reason you couldn't have both!


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## Cinnamontoast (11 February 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			no reason you couldn't have both!
		
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Hamm, but I've panicked myself looking up leish, hipscores and reading your posts about skin conditions etc! Saying that, Zak's hips are poor and all it means is that we don't ask him to do too much and we swim him lots in decent weather. The breeder you linked is doing hips, eyes. I do think they're amazing looking dogs.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 February 2017)

leish is only in foreign rescues though. just choose a good breeder


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