# Durham Horse dealer in court again for illegal selling



## Cuffey (9 May 2011)

Sadly people are still being caught out and even worse the judge is asking them to go through civil action to get their money back

http://www.theadvertiserseries.co.uk/news/8989568.Trader_fined_for_the_illegal_sale_of_horses/


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## orionstar (9 May 2011)

The judge had it right however when he said he couldnt understand why people still bought horses from someone of his reputation.


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## mazda (9 May 2011)

Trouble is, if he's still trading, there's a lot of people that may not have heard.  He's probably selling to less knowledgeable people who probably don't read the right papers.  

I think he should be made an example of & banned from owning, selling or having anything to do with horses.  Perhaps that would put other unscrupulous dealers on the alert to clean up their acts.

Hit 'em hard where it hurts.


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## pinklilly (9 May 2011)

I can't understand people buying off him to be honest, surely people don't think they are getting a decent horse for the prices he charges?  The horses he sells even in photographs don't always look sound, often have bad conformation and aren't in very good condition and some of them look a lot older than described.


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## EQUISCENE (10 May 2011)

Orionstar said:



			The judge had it right however when he said he couldnt understand why people still bought horses from someone of his reputation.
		
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Surely then it should be the judges responsibility to make sure that he cannot trade horses anymore..


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## Sprout (10 May 2011)

I cant believe he is still getting away with it - tougher action needed to stop him!


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## kirstyl (10 May 2011)

Sure I have seen adverts from him recently on Horsemart?  The prices are ridiculously low and the horses are always described as quiet and good all rounders.  What an appalling man with no morals whatsoever


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## BBH (10 May 2011)

Until people have the option of shouting loud and clear about dodgy horse sellers without fear of libel / slander laws nothing will change.

Lets face it there are some well known faces who sell dodgy horses, and on here there have been a few mentioned, one a very well known dressage rider and another a BS Accredited coach so there is no protection for unsuspecting buyers even if you think the person would be careful given they have a reputation to lose.

Until governing bodies regulate their members and there is some sort of 'kite mark' for dealers, low lifes like this will always find someone to shaft.

Likewise a dealers arbitration system thing or equivalent would protect dealers from ridiculous buyers who over estimate their capabilities and shout loud that the horse is ' dangerous' etc etc.


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## Sanolly (10 May 2011)

It's all well and good for us experienced people to say 'what do you expect for that money' however there are still a lot of novices out there who think they know more than they do, who don't know what to look out for when buying.

Yes he shouldn't be trading an the judge should ban him from dealing/handling horses, but people also need to take responsibility for themselves and if they don't know what they are looking at, take someone who does. Every single on of my horses has come from dealers, including ones with a bad rep (which I didn't know beforehand!) and none of them have been bad.


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## BBH (10 May 2011)

Yes I agree there has to be an element of buyer beware and taking someone experienced with you to assess suitability is advised but there are cases when even experienced people get caught out.

Opinions differ, A SJer might think a horses flatwork is fab only for a dressage trainer to come with a client and say the flatwork is rubbish who does the poor client believe. They are both professionals afterall.

The point i'm making is that its a minefield.

People who don't know the industry may assume rightly or wrongly that as with other industries there are certain protections in place.

It is up to horse people to weedle out the rogues IMV for the benefit of everyone because if the industry can get a better reputation you may have more people coming into it bringing more new money in.

I also think these rogue dealers do a huge disservice to all the genuine dealers out there who suffer through association. In the same vein not all Estate agents are bad after all but thats the reputation they enjoy.


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## Sanolly (10 May 2011)

BBH said:



			there are cases when even experienced people get caught out through a difference of opinion. A SJer might think a horses flatwork is fab only for a dressage trainer to come with a client and say the flatwork is rubbish who does the poor client believe. They are both professionals afterall.

But then on the same vein surely an experienced rider would take a professional from the field they wish to compete in, for example as someone who would be looking for an eventer I would take an eventer. Whereas my YO who is a SJ'er would take a show jumper.

It is up to horse people to weedle out the rogues IMV for the benefit of everyone because if the industry can get a better reputation you may have more people coming into it bringing more new money in.

Again also agree, better licencing would mean that novice buyers wouldn't end up with an unsuitable horse, and, the poor horse wouldn't be passed from pillar to post because it *should* find someone who can cope with it. 

I also think these rogue dealers do a huge disservice to all the genuine dealers out there who suffer through association. In the same vein not all Estate agents are bad after all but thats the reputation they enjoy.
		
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I appreciate that the legal system in this country is heinously overstretched at the moment but when peoples safety is being put at risk by dealers like these then they should take a more pro-active stance. At the moment dealers know that the likely hood of a client taking them through the courts is slim so they have no real deterrent to stop unscrupulous trading.


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## TallyHo123 (10 May 2011)

BBH said:



			Until people have the option of shouting loud and clear about dodgy horse sellers without fear of libel / slander laws nothing will change.

Lets face it there are some well known faces who sell dodgy horses, and on here there have been a few mentioned, one a very well known dressage rider and another a BS Accredited coach so there is no protection for unsuspecting buyers even if you think the person would be careful given they have a reputation to lose.

Until governing bodies regulate their members and there is some sort of 'kite mark' for dealers, low lifes like this will always find someone to shaft.

Likewise a dealers arbitration system thing or equivalent would protect dealers from ridiculous buyers who over estimate their capabilities and shout loud that the horse is ' dangerous' etc etc.
		
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I agree with this, I know 2 novice's who bought horses from him who were nice enough animals but not correct for them. People need to be made aware of these 'dealers' and so called 'trainers' and I really think they need harsher punishments.


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## BBH (10 May 2011)

But then on the same vein surely an experienced rider would take a professional from the field they wish to compete in, for example as someone who would be looking for an eventer I would take an eventer. Whereas my YO who is a SJ'er would take a show jumper.QUOTE.

I know its semantics but if you are interested in lower level dressage or lower level SJing a nice warmblood could do both jobs so I don't think you would necessarily only buy from those in the same discipline.

If you see a nice horse advertised you might take your trainer along irrespective of your preferred discipline. If on the other hand you were after a dressage superstar then yes I doubt you would rock up to a SJer or eventers yard but at the lower levels I think you just look for a nice horse.


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## BBH (10 May 2011)

I appreciate that the legal system in this country is heinously overstretched at the moment but when peoples safety is being put at risk by dealers like these then they should take a more pro-active stance. At the moment dealers know that the likely hood of a client taking them through the courts is slim so they have no real deterrent to stop unscrupulous trading. Quote


I think you're right these people just see it as an occupational hazard and if they get an unhappy customer whose determined to take it further they just pay them off before it goes as far as court action. 
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## minesadouble (10 May 2011)

With regard to the legal aspect of this matter, in the Judge's defence he may be limited by statute as to whether he can ban this dealer from selling. I'm not familiar with the law in this area so I do not know how much scope the Judge had on this occasion but I often see people criticising judges for lenient sentencing when, in fact legislation prevents a sentence the public are baying for.


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## dianeholmes (13 May 2011)

There has been debate about this recently on a local forum. I have never been to his place but a few who have posted to say it is impressive. Very tidy, well maintained and looks good. I know you should not judge a book by it's cover but it would help to be on your guard about the horses if the place looks a shambles!! May well reassure a novice buyer it looking presentable.


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