# Warning re aqueous cream...



## blitznbobs (4 October 2011)

I've seen loads of ppl on here suggesting that people use aqueous cream as a hoof moisturiser . Some of you may know that I am a human dr. There have been some fairly recent and extensive studies that if used as an emollient (ie moisturiser) it destroys the skins layers - thinning the skin and causing lots of damage . It was originally (and correctly) to be used as a soap substitute NOT a moisturiser and I would hate to think what it does to the hoof's wall... Please if you are going to use it read the evidence first... Your horses hooves are better off bare than using this stuff I'm sure....


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## brown tack (4 October 2011)

Im with you on this one, having been in the health care sector most of my working life, I've seen the damage it does to the skin. I did debate it with myself to use in my tb before I sold him, but thought better of it and stuck too hoof moist.


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

blitznbobs said:



			I've seen loads of ppl on here suggesting that people use aqueous cream as a hoof moisturiser . Some of you may know that I am a human dr. There have been some fairly recent and extensive studies that if used as an emollient (ie moisturiser) it destroys the skins layers - thinning the skin and causing lots of damage . It was originally (and correctly) to be used as a soap substitute NOT a moisturiser and I would hate to think what it does to the hoof's wall... Please if you are going to use it read the evidence first... Your horses hooves are better off bare than using this stuff I'm sure....
		
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Thank you for the warning, I saw some mention of this on here earlier and was going to look it up, I don't use it but was interested in the whats, whys and wherefores


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## Jesstickle (4 October 2011)

You wouldn't happen to have journal links would you? Or at least the volume. Are the studies published in the BMJ?

I'm nosey me.


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## amandap (4 October 2011)

I have very sensitive skin and was prescribed it years ago as a soap substitute but I found it an irritant, especially on my face. 

As an aside, imo hooves don't need moisturizing they need feeding properly.


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## tinap (4 October 2011)

My son was prescribed it for little pimply spots on his arms & they ended up looking horrendous - quickly threw it away! Hate the stuff!!


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## blitznbobs (4 October 2011)

I'm in bed at present -- so will find the reference tomorrow for you ( I've got it in a file somewhere at work)


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## **Vanner** (4 October 2011)

Thanks bitz ~ just goes to show how things can be incorrectly thought of.


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## Jesstickle (4 October 2011)

blitznbobs said:



			I'm in bed at present -- so will find the reference tomorrow for you ( I've got it in a file somewhere at work)
		
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Thank you! No urgency. I am just always interested to read a nice journal article. Especially as I can do it at work and it doesn't look suspicious as I'm meant to read journals from time to time. Unlike being on here which is clearly NOT work! lol

Funny how it really does seem to work for feet. I imagine the alkali effect of aqueous cream on a horses foot would be pretty small unless you're piling it on six times a day. I doubt twice a week makes much difference to hoof strength. But then I haven't read the journal yet so I could be utterly wrong!


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## Lotty (4 October 2011)

I've never used it on horses but I do use it myself as a hand cream.


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## hayinamanger (4 October 2011)

Strewth, I've been using it on my face for about a year  no wonder I look so rough


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## blitznbobs (4 October 2011)

It's the soapy stuff that's in it ( just had a brain freeze) that breaks down the lipid layers within the skin turning any fatty substance into mush ..., that's technical!!!


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## Jesstickle (4 October 2011)

blitznbobs said:



			It's the soapy stuff that's in it ( just had a brain freeze) that breaks down the lipid layers within the skin turning any fatty substance into mush ..., that's technical!!!
		
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Detergent. Probably sodium laurel sulphate or SDS? I call it SDS as I work in a lab. Can see how that would do it! Nasty stuff. Good for cleaning stuff though


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## Kat (4 October 2011)

Yikes my sister was advised to use it as a moisturiser on her ecezma (so?) Years ago and has been doing so ever since. Will suggest she rethinks!


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## blitznbobs (4 October 2011)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2133.2010.09954.x/full

quick google search !


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## Jesstickle (4 October 2011)

Win! It is indeed SLS that they are talking about. Massive geek moment!

Thanks for the link. Will have to find an Athens log in to read it though as it isn't something we subscribe to  Shouldn't be too hard though as we have a PhD student with as at the moment


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## scrunchie (4 October 2011)

SLS is nasty stuff on it's own. I've started making my own soaps to avoid it.

I was originally prescribed aquaeous cream for my eczema but it made me more itchy than what the eczema did!


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## Crazydancer (4 October 2011)

I'm quite shocked at this!!! 

I was instructed to slather this on by the bucket load by the hospital when I was having radiotherapy..... to stop the skin breaking down!!! But from what you have said it would do the opposite! 

And I still have a tub I was using for a hand moisturiser..... will be looking for an alternative now.


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## Louby (4 October 2011)

Ive been having awful trouble with my skin recently so started using Aqueous cream instead of my usual dermalogica moisturiser a couple of weeks ago, mainly as my hubbys doc told him to use it years ago.  My skin has started to look so much better   Maybe its turning to mush 
Im seeing a dermatologist tomorrow so will mention it to him.


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## cptrayes (4 October 2011)

blitznbobs said:



			It's the soapy stuff that's in it ( just had a brain freeze) that breaks down the lipid layers within the skin turning any fatty substance into mush ..., that's technical!!!
		
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I can see why this would affect skin, but I can't see why it would affect nails or horses' feet adversely. I started using it after dozens of people on here reported how effective it was as a "hoof oil". I have seen nothing but great results in a barefoot horse who develops cosmetic cracks in his feet in dry weather.

Can anyone give us the science of whether it will also damage nails in humans and feet in horses? Sodium laurel sulphate seems to be an ingredient in all shampoos, shower gels and bath foams, how dangerous is it?


ps just read the abstract pointed to above. The study was of 27 "sites" (in only SIX humans) In about half the sites, there was no  effect on forearm skin. Is there more and better evidence than this because it does not really suggest that there is likely to be any harm to a horse's hooves, and plenty of people are reporting benefits.


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## domane (4 October 2011)

Lotty said:



			I've never used it on horses but I do use it myself as a hand cream.
		
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Me too!  Funnily enough, the tub is just about finished and I was about to buy another.... don't think I'll bother now....


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## Merry Crisis (4 October 2011)

Crikey, I have recommended the stuff to everyone, I use it myself, my horse uses it, infact I have just smothered myself in it.


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## blitznbobs (4 October 2011)

The point is in soap, shampoo etc you wash it off.., and aqueous as a soap substitute is fine just not as a moisturiser. I was under the impression that hooves have a lipid outer layer - therefore sds is bbad but read the studies and make up your own mind...


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## frostie652 (4 October 2011)

I use dermol lotion rather than aqueous, its pretty good stuff, less gloopy (therefore easire to spread aswell). My skin is so sensitive, I litereally cannot use any soap/shampoo/bubble bath/conditioner thats not specialist stuff or my psoriosis flares up big time!


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## MissTyc (4 October 2011)

I used to use it as a hand moisturiser and it quickly became clear that my hands were getting worse and worse. I used more and more cream and they got even more worse and worse!
Stopped using and within 4 months fairly normal hands (rough, but normal and not painful). Now use suncream instead and great hands!


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## cptrayes (4 October 2011)

blitznbobs said:



			The point is in soap, shampoo etc you wash it off.., and aqueous as a soap substitute is fine just not as a moisturiser. I was under the impression that hooves have a lipid outer layer - therefore sds is bbad but read the studies and make up your own mind...
		
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Interesting ... do you know if human nails do? If they do then hooves are likely to, I would have thought. I'm off to google it, and whether "cold cream" has SLS/SDS in.


Follow up - the lipid layer in horses hooves is formed by the laminae. The aqueous cream would have to get all the way through the hoof wall, which is predominantly a protein called keratin,  to the laminae to affect the lipids in the hoof. Personally I think that's unlikely to affect the feet but I can see why people would not want to use it.


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## indie999 (4 October 2011)

KristmasKatt said:



			Yikes my sister was advised to use it as a moisturiser on her ecezma (so?) Years ago and has been doing so ever since. Will suggest she rethinks!
		
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Aqueous cream use to be one of the treatments and used extensively for eczema after a good wash/bath with emulsifying ointments, patients use to be slathered with it(& I dont remember their skin falling off or anyone ever complaining though)!?!. Now Hydromol is used. I wouldnt even think to put aqueous on hooves etc or much else(cornucresine??spelling around band but never hoof) but I do use it sometimes on my old boys sheath or hydromol.Whatever is to hand(literally) but now go for a tub of hydromol.

If you look at different brands of Aqueous cream they do contain slightly different ingredients as I had one brand for taking off eye makeup and it didnt sting but another shops own brand did.When I checked the ingredients there was a difference.
However Hydromol is good etc. I also sometimes use good old vaseline! 

Johnsons baby lotion is very perfumed! Go for Hydromol for human skin..old boy has survived many tubs of Aqueous on his bits and bobs.(Horse I mean)


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## laura_lor (4 October 2011)

Wow - interesting to know I'm not the only person who has had an adverse reaction to aqueous cream! My entire family swear by it, so a few years ago when I got a tiny patch of dry skin on my hip (about the size of a 20 pence piece) they told me to put some on. Woke up the next morning to find it had developed into a red raw and very itchy rash going all the way around my stomach and back. I've never touched the stuff again after that, quite interesting to read the science behind it too! 

Thanks for the heads up


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## indie999 (4 October 2011)

Has Aqueous cream been withdrawn from sale if its deemed this bad? I think its still available and would continue to use it.

Aqueous cream was used for donkeys years in dermatology clinics and I dont remember seeing anyone have adverse side effects, it was used by the bucket load on patients with terrible eczema. Hydromol is now very popular. I am sure it hasnt been withdrawn from any shelves etc in shops. 

But hooves I wouldnt know?


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## amandap (4 October 2011)

I can't see the abstract on that link. Is this the same study?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20649794


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## Tnavas (4 October 2011)

jesstickle said:



			You wouldn't happen to have journal links would you? Or at least the volume. Are the studies published in the BMJ?

I'm nosey me.
		
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http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100000160.html


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## Cuffey (4 October 2011)

NHS comment

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/10October/Pages/Aqueous-cream-BP-and-eczema.aspx


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## amandap (5 October 2011)

As I recall it doesn't wash off completely as a soap substitute, I remember a thin film on my skin after use.


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## Booboos (5 October 2011)

I've been using it on 3 horses' hooves this summer since seeing it recommended on here, one is much better than before, enormously improved really, another is the same as before when I used other products and the third is worse so I stopped using it for him. Doesn't mean much though as all of this could be coincidence and nothing to do with the actual cream!


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## OldNag (5 October 2011)

always strikes me as a bit odd when radiotherapy patients (well ones I know) have been told that's all they can use on their skin...  personally I wouldn't touch it with the proverbial bargepole, let alone through radiotherapy...


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## TheresaW (5 October 2011)

OH has been using it for months as a moisturiser because of his psoriasis.  Is this really not a good idea then?

My farrier did suggest I use E45 on Doll's hooves.  Would this be ok?


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## Piglet (5 October 2011)

OMG!!  I use it on my own skin   think I will be getting g proper moisturizer from now on. Thank you for highlighting it's problems


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## peanut (5 October 2011)

Eeyore.1 said:



			OMG!!  I use it on my own skin   think I will be getting g proper moisturizer from now on. Thank you for highlighting it's problems
		
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I've used it as a moisturiser on my face for years and have always sworn by it for my dry skin.


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## cremedemonthe (5 October 2011)

I use Aveeno, seems to be the best and my dermatologist recommended it for my dry skin and have used it ever since

http://www.aveeno.co.uk/


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## domane (5 October 2011)

So I guess the question is... what IS a "good" moisturiser?  (That doesn't  cost the earth!)


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## only_me (5 October 2011)

Botanica  amazing stuff, great as a hand creme and the wash is brill!
We use it on horse's cuts as well -brill stuff as also a natural anti septic!


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## Jesstickle (5 October 2011)

Some people don't suffer adverse reactions to it. It is only soap at the end of the day! I looked at several pots of moisturiser around my house and most of them had some sort of detergent in. Not always SLS but often polysorbate 80. Seems to be pretty normal. I for one will not be panicking quite yet. The study only concludes that aqueous cream may not be the best thing to put on skin already compromised by eczma


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## Theresa_F (5 October 2011)

I too was given a huge pot of the cream when I was having radiotherapy and told to apply several times a day, and my skin felt far better for using it.

I still have a bit left and have to say, it is great on my feet which still suffer from dry skin from the chemo.

I suppose it is like a lot of things, some react to it and others find it very effective.

I can't believe that if it were that bad, it would still be standard issue for radiotherapy patients and I am talking in both the NHS and private centres.


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## tristar (5 October 2011)

the hoof is covered by a delicate thing called the periople, sorry can't spell!   excessive rasping by the blacksmith can spoil it it, and anything containing soap dissolves fat and grease in the cleansing process, so possiibly is not good for hooves, maintaining the delicate moisture balance is an art and attention to weather changes and ajustments in management needed.

i believe the destruction of the periople leads to moisture loss, inabilty of the hoof to regulate  and retain its own moisture levels.

i would only ever apply stuff to hooves as and when needed and only use completely natural substances.


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## Kat (5 October 2011)

indie999 said:



			Aqueous cream use to be one of the treatments and used extensively for eczema after a good wash/bath with emulsifying ointments, patients use to be slathered with it(& I dont remember their skin falling off or anyone ever complaining though)!?!. Now Hydromol is used. I wouldnt even think to put aqueous on hooves etc or much else(cornucresine??spelling around band but never hoof) but I do use it sometimes on my old boys sheath or hydromol.Whatever is to hand(literally) but now go for a tub of hydromol.

If you look at different brands of Aqueous cream they do contain slightly different ingredients as I had one brand for taking off eye makeup and it didnt sting but another shops own brand did.When I checked the ingredients there was a difference.
However Hydromol is good etc. I also sometimes use good old vaseline! 

Johnsons baby lotion is very perfumed! Go for Hydromol for human skin..old boy has survived many tubs of Aqueous on his bits and bobs.(Horse I mean)
		
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Well you say that you don't remember chunks of skin falling off but my sister used to slather this on her feet twice a day and then put white cotton socks on as instructed by the doctor and despite this chunks of skin would fall off and her feet would crack and split. They would itch so badly and be ever so sore. 

She had eczema in all the usual places but her feet were always worst, and when her skin has been ok elsewhere he feet have never been quite right. This just makes me wonder whether all that time she was putting something on them religiously that was making them worse. 

She was always advised not to use any other products, we had to stick with one brand of wash powder and she couldn't use normal bath products just Oilatum in the bath. I wonder whether she would have been better off using normal moisturisers all along...... 

Anyway for anyone looking for a nice natural moisturiser I can recommend using almond oil or olive oil. You don't need much and although it takes a while to soak in it does the trick, you also know that there is nothing horrid in there as it is suitable to eat!


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## Louby (5 October 2011)

Ive been to a dermatologist today and mentioned it in passing, he reckonned it was fine and if it was working to carry on using it  He said there will always be some people that react to one product or another.
I also have Diprobase which is for eczema and looking at the ingrediants it has sodium dihydrogen and phosphoric acid in it, not that I know what they are??


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## burtie (5 October 2011)

I have used aqueous cream for years as both a soap and moisturiser and have never had any problems but it has to be Boots aqueous cream as all other makes made my condition worse, so theirs must be a different recipe to others!


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## indie999 (5 October 2011)

If a your dermatologist/tissue viability nurse recommends a product they will certainly know what is best for you. 

If you ever get a chance to read side effects and precautions/contraindications etc for most pharmaceutical products/over the counter etc etc etc there will be side effects. Some will suffer others will not. 

And if you read most of these  side effects you probably will not use anything!  

As the old saying goes if it aint broke dont fix it.

Years ago it was Lazards paste or emulsifying ointment melted in boiling water added to a bath/Aqueous cream slathered and netty vests covered patients. Daily baths recommended.

Then Oilatum came along & is still available. 

Nowadays it can be ie Hyrdomol wet or dry wrap plus all the garments different companies provide to stop the itching.

And whatever happened to calamine lotion? But hooves I have no idea??


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## abina (5 October 2011)

Crazydancer said:



			I'm quite shocked at this!!! 

I was instructed to slather this on by the bucket load by the hospital when I was having radiotherapy..... to stop the skin breaking down!!! But from what you have said it would do the opposite! 

And I still have a tub I was using for a hand moisturiser..... will be looking for an alternative now. 

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A little alarmed now as we were also advised by the hospital to use it on my mum who had a severe stroke and is now basically confined to her bed and a wheelchair but is unable to move and is paralysed down her right side 
. Am now going to look into this in a greater depth as this has shaken me a bit at the thought that we are making things worse when she is unable to speak and tell us.


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## indie999 (5 October 2011)

I will throw another spanner in the works here I remember Hibiscrub being withdrawn from market in the 1980s. We were told to wash our hands with it and our skin pores started opening up,painful sore skin etc it was used as a theatre skin prep etc. But it was withdrawn quite abruptly. It then reappeared in its current form.

Hibiscrub can sting too..........I am not knocking it in its current form although it does stay active on the skin for quite a few hours and is a strong skin prep but whenever I see it in the shops I still think of its old formula. It is a very strong antibactericidal and definitely should be used with caution. 

We had to go back to old fashioned bars of soap and water.

recently I viewed a horse and the owner regularly washed the horses tail and feathers in Hibiscrub ?..


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## Devonshire dumpling (5 October 2011)

lionman said:



			Crikey, I have recommended the stuff to everyone, I use it myself, my horse uses it, infact I have just smothered myself in it.

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Just lazily reading this thread as saw your reply and actually lolled!!  Sorry hehe but imagined you all white with cream and reading it and thinking OMG!!  XX


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