# Snobbery in the horse world and happy hackers.



## partbredpacer (30 October 2011)

I know this is the unspoken elephant in the metaphorical room, but you cannot deny there is TOO MUCH snobbery in the horse world. What is wrong with being a non competitive rider? It doesn't make you a lesser person, or an negligent horse keeper, it just makes you non competitive. Not every car owner owns a car to compete with it, some just have them for pleasure, yet in the horse world owning a horse for that, just pleasure, is discriminated against and the term "happy hacker" is an insult. Just because you do not compete doesn't mean you aren't a good rider. Who else thinks this is utterly ridiculous?


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## FionaM12 (30 October 2011)

I'd agree it was ridiculous if I'd found it to be the case. I'm quite sure there are people like the ones you describe, but I don't personally know any. I've no wish to compete, I've never wanted to, and I don't feel looked down on.

I've been on this forum (mostly here in new Lounge) about two months. I'm quite open that I'm nervous and no great rider, and my mare's never going to win any prizes but I've only received kindness and sincere advice.


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## MiCsarah (30 October 2011)

I must just go around with my eyes closed. I'm just a happy hacker if you want to call me that as I don't like to compete and I feel no lesser a person  than my 4* eventing friend


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## StormyMoments (30 October 2011)

its even worse if your horse is capable of more and has done more and you have done more but you just dont want to anymore - used to get it all the time at a previous yard as i used to school a lot and compete and now i dont i just potter around the country side and apparently he is completly wasted on me and i shouldnt own him rah rah rah - i dont think taz was planning on doing the olympics some how haha as long as hes fed hes happy


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## FionaM12 (30 October 2011)

We discussed snobbery in another recent thread.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=487850


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## Shutterbug (30 October 2011)

I have never come across this competitive snobbery that other people talk about.  Im on a huge yard with people from all kinds of backgrounds and all kinds of abilities - some compete, some potter around, some hack, some hate hacking and some do a bit of everything.  Its all good though, nobody really cares what anyone else is doing with their ponies


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## NeilM (30 October 2011)

You want to try being a 6 foot, 52 year old guy who hacks out on a 14.2hh pony. I don't hear the comments, but I DO see the looks. 

I thoroughly enjoy hacking out, and so does Harry (my pony). When we go on holiday, my OH and I will take a compass and map, and hack out on completely unknown roads and bridleways for up to six hours a day, love it.

As for car drivers. I'm afraid as a high milage business driver, it seems most people these days do seem to think that the motorways are indeed a Grand Prix circuit. Perhaps that's why so many of them keep smashing into each other


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## dressagelove (30 October 2011)

partbredpacer said:



			Just because you do not compete doesn't mean you aren't a good rider.
		
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I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc


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## Keimanp (30 October 2011)

I enjoy competeing and have done for many years, I enjoy the challenge and I believe Prince does as well. For the past few years we have done nothing other than Hack and we have both been happy doing that.

I will talk enthusiastically about competeing and ask for advice and guidance on how to improve but you will also get the same this is the best place to go for a wander, have you seen the view from there etc and I am more than happy to spend hours in the saddle enjoying my hobby.

My sister would like to compete but as her horse flatly refuses to get in any mode of transport she isn't any less interested in horses. My mum will never compete and it makes her feel sick and is very much a happy hacker.

We all enjoy horses and it doesn't really matter what you like or want to do with your horse, it is your hobby and if anyone is looking down on what you enjoy doing then that is their problem and they are probably the unhappy ones in reality as they are possibly not being successful.


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## missyme10 (30 October 2011)

Same as Hevs, no one gives 2 hoots at my yard what anyone does. 
I've not seen it at any yard in fact, I read about it on here, but it thankfully remains a mystery to me  x


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## Dancing Queen (30 October 2011)

as in all walks of life there are individuals who are unable to accept that other people are happy doing XYZ.  These are generally the ones who feel that they are better than everyone else and look down their noses at others.

I compete to a very high standard yet nothing beats getting out on your horse enjoying the countryside, tracks, mountains and beach. Just you and your horse, enjoying each others company.


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## partbredpacer (30 October 2011)

hayleyshep88, I know a lot of retired competitive riders who just hack nowadays so I think your statement is a little sweeping. Don't get me wrong, some happy hackers can't ride, but just as many can and just can't be bothered to compete. You can't tar them all with the same brush.


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## dianeholmes (30 October 2011)

Safe hacking requires skilled riding! Adverts saying "needs a competitive home" always make me giggle. The first thing folk intimidated by their horses give up is hacking.

If your horse is happy and you are happy who cares what you do to acheive that!


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## FionaM12 (30 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it.
		
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Why do you think it has to be a "performance"? Do you believe it's not possible to do something well, but not compete with others? Not everyone wants to perform or compete in life.

Some people need an audience, some don't.


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## dressagelove (30 October 2011)

partbredpacer said:



			hayleyshep88, I know a lot of retired competitive riders who just hack nowadays so I think your statement is a little sweeping. Don't get me wrong, some happy hackers can't ride, but just as many can and just can't be bothered to compete. You can't tar them all with the same brush.
		
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I know  and I wasn't! The original post said that just because your a happy hacker doesn't mean you can't ride. Well that is a sweeping statement as well, there are many happy hackers who couldnt ride as well as competitive people, for the reasons mentioned, but I'm sure they don't care about that fact. I was just sweeping in the other direction


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## Sussexbythesea (30 October 2011)

Agree with Hevs and missyme10 I think a lot of it is in happy hackers minds. I compete and am a happy hacker more so now due to lack of funds. 

My observation on this forum and others is that happy hackers and (dare I say it) cob owners  spend far too much time worrying about what other people think and often in doing so come across as snobs themselves as they then proceed to put down all other riders because they compete or own a warmblood


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## dressagelove (30 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Why do you think it has to be a "performance"? Do you believe it's not possible to do something well, but not compete with others? Not everyone wants to perform or compete in life.

Some people need an audience, some don't.
		
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Oh dear, I knew I would get picked on! God forgive me for looking at the other side of the argument  I never said they did, the point I was trying to make, is that happy hackers won't be able to get their horses to do what other riders can do. Like I said, it depends on what your definition of a 'good rider' is.


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## FionaM12 (30 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			Oh dear, I knew I would get picked on! God forgive me for looking at the other side of the argument  I never said they did, the point I was trying to make, is that happy hackers won't be able to get their horses to do what other riders can do. Like I said, it depends on what your definition of a 'good rider' is.
		
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I'm sorry you feel picked on.  I didn't mean to come across like that, I was just asking, as I don't understand why someone who doesn't compete wouldn't be able to ride to the same standard as someone who does. It's nothing personal!


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## missyme10 (30 October 2011)

I can't quote as I am on a phone....

Hayleyshep88:
I think it works both ways really, I know many a rider that looks oh so pretty and well balanced on their well behaved horse, thus appearing a good rider. Can school well etc, again appearing good.

I've then seen them in open spaces and they can't deal with the excited leaps and bucks, or any kind of unpredictable behaviour.

I don't look down on happy hackers because they tend to be able to deal with the unexpected as they ride outside the security of an arena, usually making them effective riders.

I do however have a sly smirk at the oh so pretty riders when they ***** themselves at the thought of hacking, the smirk brought about by the fact that they think they are good riders and happy hackers aren't up to much  

So snobbery in reverse? Lol


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## dressagelove (30 October 2011)

Hmm, yes, interesting points by Missyme10 and FionaM. As you put it missyme, it is about defining what a good rider I suppose. I would imagine that there are people who school at home and get a wonderful tune out of their horse, but don't compete because they don't feel the need to. I can relate to that, as although I love competing, there are some days I'm so nervous I think twice about doing it!

Maybe the point of this thread should be competitive natures Vs non competitive natures?!


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## FionaM12 (30 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			Maybe the point of this thread should be competitive natures Vs non competitive natures?! 

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 Maybe. And whether you need the former in order to do anything well.


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## be positive (30 October 2011)

I have to add, that just because you compete doesnt mean you can ride well or that you have great knowledge or experience either. There are plenty of people regularly competing,even at affiliated level, that I would not let near one of my horses.


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## missyme10 (30 October 2011)

That's exactly it Hayleyshep88, there is a big difference in opinion on what a good rider is.

I watched my daughter hack out today into new stubble fields, she had big leaps of excitement, bucking going into canter, and had to deal with being in a group of 3 horses that were hell bent on


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## Batgirl (30 October 2011)

I think this thread has done what comes naturally and generalised which is always fun   A couple of random examples for you:

A 'Happy Hacker' who can sit a buck or a spook may be well balanced (which does not innately make a good rider), a good rider or both.

A Happy Hacker may have a 'bombproof' hack and therefore not need to be able to be a good rider, an unsuitable horse who is a nightmare and the pair are an accident waiting to happen (I know one of those), 'retired' competitive person on any kind of horse.

The problem is as a few have pointed out is the definitions, what is a 'good rider'? One who stays on? One who gives their horse safety and confidence? One who can jump/dressage/gallop it at a high competitive standard?  

I think that snobbery is just another word for stereotyping and discrimination which goes every which way.

Anyway that is my rambly two penneth's worth


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## dressagelove (30 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



 Maybe. And whether you need the former in order to do anything well. 

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Yeah interesting! I'm sorry if I'm hogging this post, lol, but it's a topic that I often think about. I wonder that when I get older and maybe lose my competitive streak, that I won't want to bother with horses? As I don't get that much pleasure from hacking, does that make me an awful, not proper horse lover?  could do with some fellow competitives to help me out here ;P

Aiming for competitions gives me aim to my riding, and I think I would be a bit lost just ambling around, I used to enjoy hacking, and still do it as part of my work, but I find it a bit boring. 

If you are not competitive then, like you say, would you want to school and progress in your riding, if you aren't aiming for competition? Would you do it for pleasure? Im a terrible perfectionist, so can't imagine not wanting to improve my riding!


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## missyme10 (30 October 2011)

Oops on phone!
I was saying, she had to deal with a young excited horse in the unknown.
To me this is a good rider, she schools good also, but so can many other kids I know, but they couldn't handle the behaviour she takes in her stride.
Maybe this explains my thinking bettter


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## bumblelion (30 October 2011)

It takes more precise riding, nerves of steel, patience, accuracy and stickability taking my exracer on a hack, than competing! I'm not talking advanced here!! Although my grand prix dressage trainer refuses to get on my boy!!


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## badgerdog (30 October 2011)

This makes me giggle.  I'm on a yard where some people event and some just hack out.  We are all supportive of each other and we all just enjoy our horses.  

I work in a riding school and to be honest I find more snobbery there!  I hear non horse owners being very scathing about horse owners who don't regularly have lessons.  They think it's sinful that people are 'only happy hackers' and don't continually try and hone their equestrian skills by having a lesson at least once a week.  I do sympathise with them as I know they would love to have their own horses.  Some of them are technically good but some of those making these remarks would be terrified to go out on a proper hack!


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## tazzle (30 October 2011)

I think it is just like the rest of life ..... there are some peolple who think they are better than others because of more money / qualifications etc and others who treat everyone ok no matter their "assets" or lack thereof 

Yes I think there are snobs in the horse world, I know one or two ,  who think that because they can show jump and come home with rossies their horses are "better" than mine and they are better riders than I.

but its all down to defintion isn't it ...... as said by others.

Can I jump round a 1m course? .... well my horse can but I can't ( but if need be out a hack I can get up a bank like at hickstead and jump at the top  )

Can I ride a novice dressage test .... hmmm doubt it -  but we can side pass a treat into small spaces, stop to a weight aid and  back up quickly. Actually we can get lateral work I just can never remember what the moves are called  .... we just do it trotting down the road.

I can also trust my horse to keep in a pace without being held and not change till I ask her.......... 

so I guess if I trained my horse to do all this I can't be hopeless as a rider... but true I do not have the balance / talent / bravery to do what many competitive riders do either. 



Yet I also do know some people who hack out that do not do any of that with their horses so it is also right that some happy hackers are terrible riders ( and I know some of them too  )


I just think we should try not to be prejudiced according to whether someone competes or not.



I have rarely competed but galloping out over the welsh hills and jumping the gulleys etc sure could compare to x country part of eventing skills wise I am sure


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## Lolo (30 October 2011)

The worst snobbery I come across is people who don't compete, or do and truly believe that anyone on anything other than a obese cob is looking down on them and so it's really funny when they beat you.

I found it most on my old horse. He was a very good-looking TB, who went like **** off a shovel in a jump off and did well in working hunters. Everyone assumed that I was a pothunter, thought I was better/ didn't deserve my success because I hadn't got him off the back of a lorry, and he wasn't a coloured cob or whatever. If someone did beat me from that group of grumblers, they'd all be sniggering away. Felt like asking why they got so much pleasure from beating a nervous young teenager and her 25yo semi-retired TB...

ETA- I think the fact that Reg hacks out so beautifully as well as being very talented makes him even more special. I see no boasts to be had from a horse who won't behave himself, but many 'happy hackers' and lower-level competitors do. I found it quite shaming that my horse was insane to hack out for me (although he was an angel for novices, the toad!).


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## FionaM12 (30 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			Yeah interesting! I'm sorry if I'm hogging this post, lol, but it's a topic that I often think about. I wonder that when I get older and maybe lose my competitive streak, that I won't want to bother with horses? As I don't get that much pleasure from hacking, does that make me an awful, not proper horse lover?  could do with some fellow competitives to help me out here ;P
		
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Having not been able to go near horses for 35 years, to me it's just a joy to be in their company again. I love to ride, but I'd still be among horses even if I wasn't able to ride. The horses are the thing for me. 

If that's not so for you, it's not "awful", we're just different. Maybe you'll always compete, or maybe you'll find your love of horses takes a change of direction: possibly hacking!!

As for "not a proper horse lover"... so are we even competing about who's top horse lover now?


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## madmav (30 October 2011)

Walk tall and man up if you want to have a lovely time hacking out. And if you're out to compete, fabulous, too. Just enjoy what you're doing! Zen person leaving now....


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## FionaM12 (30 October 2011)

badgerdog said:



			I hear non horse owners being very scathing about horse owners who don't regularly have lessons.
		
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Trouble is, now I own a horse, I can't afford lessons any more! God knows I could do with some...


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## FionaM12 (30 October 2011)

madmav said:



			Walk tall and man up if you want to have a lovely time hacking out. And if you're out to compete, fabulous, too. Just enjoy what you're doing! Zen person leaving now....
		
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Wise words, oh zen person


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## Auslander (30 October 2011)

I'm neither a happy hacker, or a competitive rider. I would call myself a happy schooler. I did my BHSII, then trained on the continent to satisfy my urges to ride proper dressage. I can ride the advanced movements, and get a good tune out of most horses on the flat, I love teaching, and get more satisfaction out of watching my clients do well in competition than I ever did competing myself. I'm just not interested in going to parties - never have been. I've done it in the past, but only because other people wanted me to.


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## tazzle (30 October 2011)

If you are not competitive then, like you say, would you want to school and progress in your riding, if you aren't aiming for competition? Would you do it for pleasure?
		
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well I do   There is a pleasure gained from improving just for its own sake, you can see, or rather more importantly feel, it yourself. Of course it is nice to get feedback on how things look too .... but to me its the feel. Sometimes people cannot actually see what it is you are aiming for ..... that lightness, that softness that is hardly discernable to onlookers unless they are knowledgable and looking for it . 

The up side for me is that I can then take it at our pace... not a pace driven by deadlines for events ...... or the skills we chose to work on being dictated by say a dressage test / level.

and we take breaks as and when we need / want  not when a season begins /ends.



I dont know whether my attitide is because I used to be a competitive swimmer and I know first hand the sacrifices, dedication, time, money and energy it takes to get to even reasonable level of competition in any discipline. I was also quite active in may sports ion my younger days..... so maybe I jsut wanna chill now


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## badgerdog (30 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Trouble is, now I own a horse, I can't afford lessons any more! God knows I could do with some... 

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Exactly!  If they get their own horses they'll find out that it's sometimes too expensive to do everything that you want.


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## Rose Folly (30 October 2011)

I think hayleyshep88 overlooks one thing. There are plenty of 'competition ' riders who are pretty good rubbish and who I wouldn't let within a mile of my horses.

I've had a very long life with horses. I hunted for years, have done ODE, LDR, ridden polo ponies, brought badly ridden (sorry but yes) jaded, spoilt ompetition horses back into being decent horses. But some of my best times have been hacking, and they still are. Hacking is not sitting grimly clutching the pommel and following another horse round the local lane. It's exploring, jumping, wading, galloping, picnicking, riding in the sea, scrambling up and down crags, crossing bogs.

At which points one or two of my 'competition' friends over the years have suddenly remembered they have to go home and put the washing out! They're fine within the perameters of their sport, but pretty useless outside it. And I hope none of them recognise themselves...


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## rockysmum (31 October 2011)

Well I imagine even the happy hackers look down on me.  I'm just a lazy cow so bring it on.

My old boy has carried me around for 30 years and still does if I can be bothered.  My daughters semi retired show cob will do the same.  Neither of them give a dam whether we do anything or not and neither do I.

I even got on my daughters warmblood once (didn't stay on long as it was far too stressful) but I proved I could climb up there still.


I love grooming for my daughter when she competes, I love all the chalk and polish and having the cleanest horse in the ring.


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2011)

Thank you Auslander I did not know what I was but thats me a happy schooler I only go to competions to Jusify going for training.


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## Enfys (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
		
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Love this post. ^^

I guess I would be classified as a happy hacker then  
I stuck to mooching about on pretty ponies every weekend with a gang of friends.

I will freely admit that I know little and care less about higher standards of riding and schooling.  
I don't want to if I am to be honest, I am not interested, it bores me rigid, always has, always will, I leave that to the people who actually enjoy it.  

I am always in awe of people who work towards, and achieve, their own personal goals


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## millikins (31 October 2011)

Surely it's about riding to the best of your ability, whether your interest is competing or hacking or both. I hate watching riders allowing their animal to "slop" along, if you took the trouble to groom it and tack it up, make it stride out a bit!


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## Enfys (31 October 2011)

Millikins said:



			Surely it's about riding to the best of your ability, whether your interest is competing or hacking or both. I hate watching riders allowing their animal to "slop" along, if you took the trouble to groom it and tack it up, make it stride out a bit!
		
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Aha, I never said that I slopped, I said schooling bored me senseless  I _still_ classify myself as a happy hacker.
This is the kind of mooching I like, and if you've ever read Molly's book "In the Pink" you'll know this horse, and, No, I never did make fridge magnets, that was poetic license  She really wanted the mince pies just out of shot.


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## traceyann (31 October 2011)

Years ago when me and my cob was in our prime. I would do alot of showjumping on him everyone would look down on us but he has a huge jump top of the wings jump. And look at disgust at us when we beat them. I only did it for fun didnt care win lose who cares many a time travelled to a show and he wasnt in the mood so put him back in the box without jumping a pole. My friends used to say give him a good hiding make him jump my answer was if he dont want to i wasnt going to make him. I never gave him a hard time about it. My other horses events my tb showjumps but never to win just for fun.


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## elsielouise (31 October 2011)

What dianeholmes said. I know countless "competitive" riders who won't take their horses off the yard. Traffic no excuse here either . Toll rides, hundreds of acres of woodland etc. They just want to stay in the confines of their arena.

Completely fine by me but utter nonsense to suggest hackers can't really ride or don't bother refining their position. 

Oh and I hack and compete btw!


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## EstherYoung (31 October 2011)

Hacking is not sitting grimly clutching the pommel and following another horse round the local lane. It's exploring, jumping, wading, galloping, picnicking, riding in the sea, scrambling up and down crags, crossing bogs.
		
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Absolutely


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## AngieandBen (31 October 2011)

And doing this!!


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## muffinmunsh (31 October 2011)

I find all this very amusing! In my opinion, people will only ever be as judgemental as one let's them be... But maybe I am just ignorant / couldn't really give a monkey what everybody says. Both my horses compete successfully with mr and the sharers and both enjoy a decent hack or a holiday on the beach. They both go alone or in the group, on the road and even in London. It has all been part of their education ... 
I keep horses for pleasure and enjoyment and have no intention to let anybody spoil that ( not that anyone has tried


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## The Fuzzy Furry (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
		
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Oh dear 

So those of us who have competed to reasonable levels or above, who (for whatever reason) are hacking out, do not allegedly have sufficient skills?

Thanks for the sweeping statement, it does no help to anyone in the horseworld to be honest for you to come out with this.

I know I'm not in a minority round my neck of the woods in actually enjoying riding a horse outside a school - having ridden, trained and schooled to quite a high level previously -  perhaps you might think a little more and refresh your opinion?


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## DragonSlayer (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
		
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What rot.

I compete AND class myself as a 'happy hacker'.

You do NOT know what they have done in their past, I know many older riders who no longer compete and could knock socks off the younger generation with their horsemanship skills.


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## muffinmunsh (31 October 2011)

... Sorry, compete with me and the sharers 
Blasted phome


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## DragonSlayer (31 October 2011)

Millikins said:



			Surely it's about riding to the best of your ability, whether your interest is competing or hacking or both. I hate watching riders allowing their animal to "slop" along, if you took the trouble to groom it and tack it up, make it stride out a bit!
		
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Who cares if a rider wants their horse to 'amble on'? As long as all are enjoying themselves, what the hell does it matter?

what the heck has it got to do with anyone else?

These threads enrage me...

Keep your nose out of other peoples business!

Grrr......


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## touchstone (31 October 2011)

I am a happy hacker and proud.

Does that mean I don't ride to the best of my ability?  No

Does it mean I can't ride to a high level if I wanted to? No.

Every time I hack out I can be faced with a variety of 'obstacles' - rivers to ford, bridges to cross, heavy traffic to deal with, logs to jump, gates to open, steep gradients to deal with, not to mention spooky objects etc.

Because of this I have a deep bond with my horse, any schooling is a mean to an ends of an obedient horse out hacking, but my horse is light, responisve and quite capable of shoulder in, half pass etc.   I don't jump great heights like I did in the past, but enough to get me out of trouble if I needed to.

Because I'm not on a timescale like many competitors and have no incentive to reach the top, I can school at a pace that suits both of us while out hacking, no gadgets or shortcuts needed which I've often seen in competetive riders.

Just because someone doesn't compete doesn't make them a good or bad rider, there are both in competition and out hacking.

As dragonslayer has said, even if a happy hacker wants to 'slop along', it is nobody eles's business and as long as both horse and rider are happy then that is what matters, not how many rosettes are pinned on the wall at home.


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## claireandnadia (31 October 2011)

I've never come across snobbery, yes competiveness but when you are competing it's natural that you want to win.
I've ridden past a few riders with their noses stuck in the air but never on a yard.


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## Ibblebibble (31 October 2011)

perhaps it is the younger riders who feel the need to compare themselves to eachother and have ideas about what or whom is better 
At the grand old age of 40 i have to admit i no longer give 2 hoots about peoples opinion of me and what i do with my horses, as long as i'm happy and the horses are happy and well looked after then what does it matter to anyone else my horses at the end of the day that i pay for


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## Tr0uble (31 October 2011)

I think it's a silly thing to get offended at....no more derogatory than Dressage 'Diva' or other terms used in life in a light hearted way?

I use it, but certainly not meaning it in a snobbish way. I often say I'm off out happy hacking! Just the same as if I'm going to school I same I'm going to do some 'poncing in circles' or at certain times of year we go 'stubble bashing' or if I'm attempting some jumping/pole work, I say we're going to go and 'trip over some sticks'!! (and not because we can't do it, maybe I'm just an odd person!?)


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## Spudlet (31 October 2011)

Hmmm - I find tooling around an arena unbelievably boring to be honest. I like getting out and about, and seeing what there is to see out there. Does that mean I don't bother about how I ride, or just slop about? No... I still like to ride to the best of my ability, I just don't like doing so in little circles with a fence all the way around me.

As to 'not pretending to know all about higher standards of riding', well that's a rather large assumption to make about someone's background and past experience... and we all know what assume makes... yep, and ass of u and me. But mostly u, the one doing the assuming.


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## RunToEarth (31 October 2011)

I'm not snobby about happy hackers, but I do feel riders who mong about in  the middle of the road, not thanking drivers, not controlling their horses are dangerous and give all riders a bad name among the public. 
I'm not a fan of hacking, I do it to keep the horses fit for hunting and competition, so I really don't see the attraction.


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## AshTay (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			If you are not competitive then, like you say, would you want to school and progress in your riding, if you aren't aiming for competition? Would you do it for pleasure? Im a terrible perfectionist, so can't imagine not wanting to improve my riding! 

Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be a competition though. I've got a mare who's fab out hacking but green in the school and a gelding who's "challenging". So my motivation us to improve my riding to also bring on my horses. I have regular lessons but most of what i do is hack - but I do work on my position while out hacking and also school (to some extent).

I don't feel the need to compete. I have done it and I've enjoyed it but tbh I just find it stressful. I do plan to take my mare out to do some local RC dressage next year but more for fun and to see how she reacts more than to try and win any rosettes.

I'm on cloud nine at the moment as I can now touch my gelding on the shoulder with a carrier bag and my mare is beginning to understand leg yield!! Each to their own.


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## Spudlet (31 October 2011)

Enfys said:



			Aha, I never said that I slopped, I said schooling bored me senseless  I _still_ classify myself as a happy hacker.
This is the kind of mooching I like, and if you've ever read Molly's book "In the Pink" you'll know this horse, and, No, I never did make fridge magnets, that was poetic license  She really wanted the mince pies just out of shot.






Click to expand...

 Is that Ari!? I loved that book, loved the sound of Ari too!

*Plans to reread book this evening to see if she is right*


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## Spudlet (31 October 2011)

OK, one more post on this subject - why would a hacker want to improve their riding? Well, for the same reason that I still take my dog training despite the fact that for the vast, vast majority of the time, he is a pet and nothing more - for the pleasure of doing a job right, for its own sake. He doesn't really _need_ to be able to sit while half a dozen dummies get thrown out around him then retrieve the dummy on the left or the right on command, or to be able to do off-lead heelwork with three different variations on an about turn - but it's fun to do. You don't need to have something validated by others - improving your way of riding is worth doing for its own sake, surely? It will make you and your horse happier, what better reward is there than that?


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## AshTay (31 October 2011)

I'm with everyone who has said "each to their own". I don't care what other people do or what they think of me and what i choose to do with my horses.

But, quietly, I have the most respect for people who bring on their own horses and turn them into easy happy hacking horses or successful competition horses! That takes skill!  I have least respect for people who buy readymade competition horses then look all proud and self satisfied when they bring home the rosettes. What's the point?!


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## Spyda (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
		
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Glad I dont know you in real life. Up your own a*** IMO.


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

If Dragon Slayer and The Fuzzy Furry had bothered to read the rest of my posts,and SPYDA As well!!) they would have noticed that I had continued my point. I was NOT being sweeping. As already pointed out I found the original statement to be quite sweeping itself. There are two ends to every stick, and I was talking about the people who sit on 'bombproof' cobs and tootle about with no regard for making their horse work properly.

I agree actually in terms of it being a snobbery in terms of your horse you sit on. If a happy happy was tootling about on a nice big pristine TB, would they get looked down on for hacking? Perhaps not. Maybe we should link this back to that great thread 'Why do people want to own cobs?!'  Don't gang up on me just cos I'm not siding with the majority?


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## Spudlet (31 October 2011)

Oooh, so it's all about the kind of horse... so it's people who ride cobs that are no good as riders....

Honey, you know if you keep digging yourself into that hole, you'll hit Australia eventually...


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

Spyda said:



			Glad I dont know you in real life. Up your own a*** IMO.
		
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And there is NO need for such a comment. you DO NOT know me in real life an cannot make that judgment so keep it to yourself please


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

Spudlet said:



			Oooh, so it's all about the kind of horse... so it's people who ride cobs that are no good as riders....

Honey, you know if you keep digging yourself into that hole, you'll hit Australia eventually...

Click to expand...

Haha! good grief, you have to maintain a sense of humour to survive this forum dont u  Again, people are reading between the lines and I did not say that!! I never said people who ride cobs arent as good riders! I have had some lovely cobs myself! Stop putting words in my mouth please 

I was merely referring back to that other thread which may have a contribution to this discussion


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## Spudlet (31 October 2011)

Well, then why does it make a difference if the horse in question is a TB? I'm confused by your point. 

If you expressed yourself with more clarity and precision, people would probably not read between the lines.


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## FanyDuChamp (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?
		
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I see this from both pov. I was, in my younger days, a competitive rider, Show Jumper and did fairly well. Now I am a happy hacker, if I ride at all. I am still as able as I was, just a lot more fragile after a pretty horrid accident hunting. 

I also own an ex-pro horse, he was a CDE horse for a  famous driver and I own a hack who has only properly been backed for 2 years,although she is 15/16 (can't remember) she was a show horse and brood mare. So I have a foot in each camp as it were, and so do my horses. 

So what I want to know is why would HH not ride correctly? Why would a comp rider definitely be riding correctly? I think there are good and bad comp riders, after all just because you can get a horse over a jump it doesn't make you a good rider, too often people buy school masters and think they are the bees knees at riding.We've all seen comp riders with every gadget under the sun stuck on their horse, still struggling to control it. So IMHO there are good and bad HH and good and bad comp riders, no one need look down on anyone. 

FDC


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

Fany Du Champ said:



			I see this from both pov. I was, in my younger days, a competitive rider, Show Jumper and did fairly well. Now I am a happy hacker, if I ride at all. I am still as able as I was, just a lot more fragile after a pretty horrid accident hunting. 

I also own an ex-pro horse, he was a CDE horse for a  famous driver and I own a hack who has only properly been backed for 2 years,although she is 15/16 (can't remember) she was a show horse and brood mare. So I have a foot in each camp as it were, and so do my horses. 

So what I want to know is why would HH not ride correctly? Why would a comp rider definitely be riding correctly? I think there are good and bad comp riders, after all just because you can get a horse over a jump it doesn't make you a good rider, too often people buy school masters and think they are the bees knees at riding.We've all seen comp riders with every gadget under the sun stuck on their horse, still struggling to control it. So IMHO there are good and bad HH and good and bad comp riders, no one need look down on anyone. 

FDC
		
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Yes, a good point. I dont think I am the best at expressing myself  I will try and improve this skill! But for now Im going to go hide back in CR, I thought the NL was dead friendly but I have been upset by the amount of attacks I have had for daring to have a different opinion


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## Hippona (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?
		
Click to expand...

Yes...I think you do
I have no real  wish to compete- partly because I can't be arsed and partly because I would get nervous 'doing stuff' in front of people.

However - my current horse- well, to say he isn't a novice ride would be an understatement. In a year I've turned him for a nervous nappy wreck into a happy confident horse who will hack out alone, in company- will trot accross motorway bridges and gallop flat out - but only when asked- and come back to hand sweetly. He is schooling well and really I'm so proud of him.

Just cos I don't choose to compete doesn't mean I can't do it

Guess I'm not a show-off - just an 'ordinary' person enjoying her horse and getting a kick out of bringing him on......like many many others.


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## FanyDuChamp (31 October 2011)

poppymoo said:



			Yes...I think you do
I have no real  wish to compete- partly because I can't be arsed and partly because I would get nervous 'doing stuff' in front of people.

However - my current horse- well, to say he isn't a novice ride would be an understatement. In a year I've turned him for a nervous nappy wreck into a happy confident horse who will hack out alone, in company- will trot accross motorway bridges and gallop flat out - but only when asked- and come back to hand sweetly. He is schooling well and really I'm so proud of him.

Just cos I don't choose to compete doesn't mean I can't do it

Guess I'm not a show-off - just an 'ordinary' person enjoying her horse and getting a kick out of bringing him on......like many many others.

Click to expand...

Sometimes I really wish we had a like button! 

So much better put than my post! 
FDC


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2011)

I have no snobbery about happy hackers it's just not what I do I want to train my horses make into the most athletic well schooled horses I can trained to do lots of different things that's what I love. what I do have a Problem understanding is ... Let's call them unhappy hackers people who patently terrified of riding barely in control of their horses and lurching from disaster to disaster without being aware that you need to work hard learn to ride well and control a large animal with a mind of it's own.I just don't get them I hear their tales of woe and am always kind and nice but I just don't get them at all.


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## touchstone (31 October 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			I have no snobbery about happy hackers it's just not what I do I want to train my horses make into the most athletic well schooled horses I can trained to do lots of different things that's what I love. what I do have a Problem understanding is ... Let's call them unhappy hackers people who patently terrified of riding barely in control of their horses and lurching from disaster to disaster without being aware that you need to work hard learn to ride well and control a large animal with a mind of it's own.I just don't get them I hear their tales of woe and am always kind and nice but I just don't get them at all.
		
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A hacking horse can still be well trained and athletic 

As for riders that are terrified, I suspect a lot of that stems from those new to horses who have a few lessons on a schoolmaster, manage well and then go and buy their own horse, not realising that there can be a vast difference in how horses 'go' when on their own,  and yes, there are some riders like that, but plenty more who cope admirably and enjoy their horses.  I've also seen plenty who've bought ready made horses for competition and then struggled with their own lack of ability - applies to both camps imho.


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## Zimzim (31 October 2011)

I dont think it matters what you do with your horse being honest, everyone likes to do different things whether thats competing or simply enjoying time with your horses. Everyones in the same boat at the end of the day, we all have horses and we all have to cater for their individual needs, the health and well being is far more important than what you do with them. At the end of the day if your happy and your horse is happy then I see no problem in what anyone does.

Theres snobbery in all professions, personnally I just take it with a pinch of salt.


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## AshTay (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			Yes, a good point. I dont think I am the best at expressing myself  I will try and improve this skill! But for now Im going to go hide back in CR, I thought the NL was dead friendly but I have been upset by the amount of attacks I have had for daring to have a different opinion 

Click to expand...

Aaah- don't be like that! You're as entitled to your views as anyone else and if we all agreed it would be very dull on here. Ignore the tiny minority who make nasty comments and just respond to those that engage in healthy (and polite) debate!


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## Enfys (31 October 2011)

Spudlet said:



 Is that Ari!? I loved that book, loved the sound of Ari too!

*Plans to reread book this evening to see if she is right*
		
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Yep, that's my lovely Arian, a definite departure from my usual type though.


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## Spudlet (31 October 2011)

Enfys said:



			Yep, that's my lovely Arian. Sweet horse, she was on loan to the FM of our local pack for a year.
		
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She's just like I imagined her to be Beautiful girly.

See, that book makes me want to give hunting a try (especially if I had an Arian or a Norman!)... then I go into the Hunting forum on here and am instantly put off again!


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## AngieandBen (31 October 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			I have no snobbery about happy hackers it's just not what I do I want to train my horses make into the most athletic well schooled horses I can trained to do lots of different things that's what I love. what I do have a Problem understanding is ... Let's call them unhappy hackers people who patently terrified of riding barely in control of their horses and lurching from disaster to disaster without being aware that you need to work hard learn to ride well and control a large animal with a mind of it's own.I just don't get them I hear their tales of woe and am always kind and nice but I just don't get them at all.
		
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While I'm a very happy hacker, I do have to agree with you'  I know quite a few people who are terrified of riding, whether in the school or out hacking  and usually they wont accept advise because they know it all, now that makes me mad and sad;  No one should be too proud to accept help, we've all been there.


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## rhino (31 October 2011)

I would call myself a happy hacker. Hacking makes me happy 

Like others on here, endless schooling sessions bore me silly  so I do all my schooling out hacking. Transitions between/within paces, all lateral work etc. are all included in my hacking. Also lots of jumping natural fences. I can happily be out and about for 3 hours plus 

And I can take my happy hacker straight to a dressage test/ode and win...

I have never experienced any negative attitudes, in fact the yard I was on a few years ago I found the complete opposite, people were impressed that my horse has the attitude and training to hack quietly one day yet be competitive in a speed class the next.


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## Kat (31 October 2011)

It isn't about whether or not you compete or whether you do most of your riding in a school, on the roads or in open spaces though is it? It is about doing the best for your horse. 

Some of the best riders don't compete, some don't hack either. I'd like to see anyone on this thread suggest that the riders at the spanish riding school are rubbish as a result though ;-) 

What is important is doing your best for your horse, if you prefer to just hack that is fine, but hopefully for the horse's sake people try to ride correctly, with their horse in balance. Likewise if you compete that is fine, whether you are driven to win or to compete to better your own record but again the important thing is that it is done with the best interests of the horse at the centre. No one likes to see a horse treated as a machine and ridden hard for the sake of a win (rollkur anyone?). 

I couldn't give a damn whether someone competes or not. The people who frustrate me are the people who believe they know everything they need to know and don't need to improve themselves with lessons/training/reading etc. I appreciate that not everyone can afford regular lessons, I haven't had one myself for six months but you can still put the effort in to learn and do the best for your horse. 

I hate the attitude that, lessons/training/reading is irrelevant because "I only hack" you may only hack, but your horse may benefit from you sitting straight/not nagging with your leg/learning correct aids/riding into the bridle/understanding the bit you have put in its mouth etc. But I also hate that attitude from competitive riders, especially if they think that winning somehow excuses them from ever needing to learn anything. Heard Robert Smith boasting about never having had a lesson in his life, came across as being a right ignorant plonker, and set such a poor example. 

Personally, I have been the person who only hacks (share horse, no school, couldn't afford lessons as I was a student), I have been the person who only has lessons (couldn't afford the time or money for my own), I have competed (only unaffiliated at dressage, sj, and a little bit of showing/wh), now I finally have my own horse and I am thoroughly enjoying hacking and schooling, bringing her on and developing her, I also can't wait to continue her education by taking her to fun rides, shows, competitions, hunts the works. But I know I will never know everything and will always need lessons/training/input from "eyes on the ground"/to read up on things/to seek advice. We will both, always be a work in progress. 

I was always taught that you never stop learning with horses, and the day that you believe you know everything you need to know is the day you should give up horses.

Hope that doesn't sound too preachy, but the thread was frustrating the heck out of me!


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## Hippona (31 October 2011)

^^^^

What she said.


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## stencilface (31 October 2011)

KristmasKatt said:



			Heard Robert Smith boasting about never having had a lesson in his life, came across as being a right ignorant plonker, and set such a poor example.
		
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Funny, because I have the same opinion of the above, but for different reasons!


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## Pedantic (31 October 2011)

Nation of Arseriders


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## catkin (31 October 2011)

Hmm, well look at it from the horse's point of view:

Up early, ponced about with itchy plaits in, spend all day travelling in a lorry, stand around in the cold waiting to do 5 minutes of work with a nervous wreck of a human not helping, stand about again, travel home - then it's dark

or

up early, out and about in the fresh air, stop to talk to people who give you cuddles and tell you how wonderful you are, have a chance to check out all the goings on in the neighbourhood, perhaps a little detour to the village shop to buy an apple then home by 'coffee-time' and spend the rest of the day mooching about with your companion in the field

PS and the cost of an apple is less than entry fees so we can still afford lessons


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## Enfys (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			I dont think I am the best at expressing myself  *I will try and improve this skill*! But for now Im going to go hide back in CR, I thought the NL was dead friendly but I have been upset by the amount of attacks I have had for daring to have a different opinion 

Click to expand...

No need to improve, or to go back to CR permanently either 

Just be thankful that you didn't mention arabs  

Wouldn't it be boring if we all did, or thought, the same thing? Posts like yours always get this response, different strokes and all that. If tootling around the lanes, or the arena, or  jumping, or breeding, starting babies, or just being near a horse make riders/owners happy then that's just fine by me.

 Me personally?  I enjoy breeding a good horse and selling a well adjusted youngster to someone who _enjoys_ taking the next step on the ladder more than I do.


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## Super_Kat (31 October 2011)

WHY DO YOU CARE???!!!
All these threads do is get filled with happy hackers spewing out 'how challenging and dangerous hacking is'. Right ho. Hacking is dangerous, mainly because people risk their horses by taking them on the bloody roads which are full of dog-toss drivers!
Who cares if people look down on you, I'm sure you look down on others for different reasons. Enjoy your horses, don't listen to other people putting you down, it's such a waste of energy......


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

Super_Kat said:



			WHY DO YOU CARE???!!!
All these threads do is get filled with happy hackers spewing out 'how challenging and dangerous hacking is'. Right ho. Hacking is dangerous, mainly because people risk their horses by taking them on the bloody roads which are full of dog-toss drivers!
Who cares if people look down on you, I'm sure you look down on others for different reasons. Enjoy your horses, don't listen to other people putting you down, it's such a waste of energy......
		
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Like button. lol


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## stencilface (31 October 2011)

Well said super kat - I am used to people looking down on me (being a confessed showjumper   ) but I don't care


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## Enfys (31 October 2011)

Stencilface said:



			Well said super kat - I am used to people looking down on me (being a confessed showjumper   ) but I don't care 

Click to expand...

Anyone who _*deliberately*_ aims for an obstacle in their path has my admiration


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## claireandnadia (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
		
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When I first read this I was quite offended as I came in to riding at the age of 26, I wanted to be a happy hacker and I am and always will be a happy hacker.
But, I don't know how to ride as would a rider who competes SJ/dressage etc and quite frankly have no interest in doing that but that doesn't mean we can't ride, we still have to have certain skills and the foundations are still the same no matter what you are doing with horses.


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## JFTDWS (31 October 2011)

Why does everything have to be black and white?  You're a happy hacker so you're hopeless at riding, but he's a showjumper so the sun shines out of his arse.

Some people's idea of a hack is an amble round the block, some people's idea of a schooling session is a trot round the school for 15 minutes, sawing their horse into an "outline".  Some people head off over the hills for hours on end with a map, a compass and every intention of having a good gallop, jumping anything in their way.  Some competition riders are hopeless thugs, pulling their horses about the ring.  Some happy hackers are fluffy bunny middle aged women who think their obese cob will melt in the rain.  Some aren't...  

My favourite hacking buddy (the ultimate happy hacker) is an old school type who most of the competitive riders are scared witless of hacking with, because she knows how to have a good time and she's a speed demon.  She rides a pony, because it makes mounting and getting under low branches easier - not because she couldn't handle a horse.  Her pony was sold to her as her previous (competitive) owners couldn't handle her vertical rears - it was the happy hacker who sorted her out...  

There's good and bad in every sport and every discipline - and there's a diversity of shades of grey too.  I couldn't care less whether people want to go for a walk round the block, a mad gallop, ride xc or go in the school - they can make their own rules for themselves.  I'm busy enough making up my rules for myself.

Personally, I compete and I happily hack - and I do TREC which is pretty well competitive happy hacking anyway


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## lhotse (31 October 2011)

hayleyshep88 said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
		
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I don't compete, it doesn't interest me, but prehaps you would like to come for a hack with me, and then you will see that I can ride plenty good enough, and I bet my bottom dollar that you will be struggling with keeping your 'correct' position a long time before I do!!!!!

Hacking does not mean just being a passenger, it means being able to stay in tune with your horse over a meriad of different terrain, at all paces, and often for a long time. I used to regulary ride my horse for 25 miles, yet the people on my yard who did school work and competed were flagging after a couple of miles, and nervous of doing things like riding up steep banks or crossing rivers. Give them a gate, and they didn't know what to do!!! I could do any gate in less time than it took them to get off!!

So, my point being, that just because someone prefers the open country over mindless circles in a school (and my mare was never ridden in a school, she hated it) does not imply that they are of a lesser ability. Infact, I would argue that riding over different terrain at different paces actually proves more ability than just being fixed into position in the confines of a school.  I know of people who compete in dressage who are scared of going for a gallop.


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## Ranyhyn (31 October 2011)

Right now I'd give anything to become a happy hacker...atm I just can't seem to pull it off!


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## darkhorse123 (31 October 2011)

everyone is different - i hate beign "centre of attention" or "on show" so would never ever want to compete - however i have tremendous admiration for and love watching my friends who do
I only ever wanted to be a "happy hacker" however i wanted to ride my horse correctly and more imporatantly comfortably for him - I wanted to learn to ride "light" and correct so i put up with and endured lessons for 2 years on my daughters cob who she had got fed up with
Then id to deal with my confidence - i really loved this horse so to take him on roads took proper courage - and skill. 
Skill you ask? Ok - ridng properly ie forward but constantly having to turn round to check traffic behind you - keep safe whilst thanking drivers ie waving and taking one hand off the rein - not easy when your nervous!
Im now finally what you may dismally call a happy hacker - i would say its taken a hell of a lot of money, sweat and teares to get us there
Weekly lessons in winter at 8pm often in rain on a cob who sensed my nerves and spooked for england even in the school (i was a novice)- 
Now im hacking out with every horse at my yard going anywhere my fellow liveries go ie me and horse facing and dealing with new obstacles every ride.
Im now working to get us out alone - currently using hubby as a safety net running alongside us ready to grip the reins at any moment - not needed but my fears - always thinking what if????
Please dont knock happy hackers - bridle ways are now rubbish - non existetn or overgrown ie neglected, not all drivers considerate - we might not win any medals but its not all easy peasy - and yes we do try so hard to ride correctly - school while out in very difficult conditions.


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2011)

Some of you might to join in on the very happy hackers thread which is very lively


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## FionaM12 (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			I dont think I am the best at expressing myself  I will try and improve this skill!  back  I have been upset by the amount of attacks I have had for daring to have a different opinion 

Click to expand...

I'm sorry you feel attacked. 

However, seeing as you're looking to improve your communication skills, you might start by considering that telling people who don't compete, "don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc" could be seen as an attack on THEM. I expect if someone said that to you, you'd be very angry, and might retort as strongly as people have here!


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## The_snoopster (31 October 2011)

I would like to know who made up the term "happy hacker", being a grumpy old cow surely that makes me a "grumpy hacker".  I do thank cars which slow down and keep my horse in control whilst on the roads even when I am in my grumpiest mood, however cars which speed past usually get the middle finger salute. When we are on a bridleway I slop along for all I am worth, infact if their was a competition for the sloppiest riding I would win. 
Who cares wether you compete or not or even slop along or not, are,nt we all on the same side as horse owners ? I shall now use my favorite face


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## only_me (31 October 2011)

We don't really have happy hackers here (ireland). For one we don't have any bridleways (maybe 1, can't remember) and so most of our hacking tends to be either in national trust parks or on the road. 
Most people here will compete in something, be it low level riding club or endurance/le trec and the ones that only hack are truely in the minority!

But I personally can't see the attraction of hacking only - but then I only have a few road hacks avaliable and have to box up to go further and by nature am a competitive person. I love hacking and do it for fittness or relaxation - but I couldn't purely hack! But maybe I could if we had bridleways upon bridleways and close proximity to the beach?

If you are a happy hacker, then why get upset if someone says you are "just" a happy hacker? Sometimes, a lot of reverse snobbery goes on as well!!

By the defination of HHO, happy hackers are tree hugging barefoot cob owners - and showjumpers are chavtastic blonde no hairnet fashion follower who like to beat their horse around the course. We all know this is a very sweeping comment and almost certainly not true!
 don't forget, just cos someone has the opinion that dosen't agree with yours, dosen't mean it is wrong


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## trick123 (31 October 2011)

we have high level eventers but I don't care what people do with their horses as long as they look after them, we have friends who just hack on lovely hairy cobs, trotters, good all round PC ponies that wouldn't win a beauty competition but make brilliant children's ponies, hunt horses and so on, there is no need to condemn people because of what they do with their companion/friend, their welfare is more important.


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## Marydoll (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers
, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
		
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I have never heard such crap in all my life !
I have a friend who is a hapy hacker,she can get a tune out of anything you sit her on, works well schooling her horses and rides to a very high standard. Her pleasure is derived from the process of schooling and producing a good horse, not the glory of winning a rosette.


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

marydoll said:



			I have never heard such crap in all my life !
I have a friend who is a hapy hacker,she can get a tune out of anything you sit her on, works well schooling her horses and rides to a very high standard. Her pleasure is derived from the process of schooling and producing a good horse, not the glory of winning a rosette.
		
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And AGAIN I am fed up of repeating myself. Read my later posts. I am not thick I recognise this.


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## darkhorse123 (31 October 2011)

trick123 said:



			we have high level eventers but I don't care what people do with their horses as long as they look after them, we have friends who just hack on lovely hairy cobs, trotters, good all round PC ponies that wouldn't win a beauty competition but make brilliant children's ponies, hunt horses and so on, there is no need to condemn people because of what they do with their companion/friend, their welfare is more important.
		
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Totally agree with this - if your horse is happy and well cared for why does anyone else bother who does what????
You do what you want,what you like doing and if it doesnt hurt your horse, whose bussness is it???  - let others do what they like doing - end of


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## Moggy in Manolos (31 October 2011)

I had experienced a little snobbery in the past about me being an adult riding a pony (14.2hh) shock horror  but not particularly about being a happy hacker I don't think. My yard is a lovely diverse one, some people just have the horse, almost as a pet which could be due to retirement or illness etc, some hack, and some compete to varying degrees.

Perhaps people did say things about me and my lovely late old girl, but I cant say I noticed or paid attention, I like to keep out of the thick of any gossip and derogatory stuff said about any liveries. I do not tend to notice these things as I just keep the right distance from people, whilst being perfectly friendly and chatty


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## Marydoll (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			And AGAIN I am fed up of repeating myself. Read my later posts. I am not thick I recognise this.
		
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I did read your post it was a sweeping generalisation of many riders.
And still crap in imo


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## Merry Crisis (31 October 2011)

I am of an age when hunters were hacked to get fit, Point-to-pointers were hacked to get fit, even my eventer was hacked to get fit. We used to do fast work on a good bit of ground, out HACKING. Why has hacking got such a bad name!!


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## Marydoll (31 October 2011)

lionman said:



			I am of an age when hunters were hacked to get fit, Point-to-pointers were hacked to get fit, even my eventer was hacked to get fit. We used to do fast work on a good bit of ground, out HACKING. Why has hacking got such a bad name!!
		
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Exactly lionman, i event and hacking is whats helps get my girl fit.
I see some really good riders who hack, none of them have ever professed to know everything about riding.


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

marydoll said:



			I did read your post it was a sweeping generalisation of many riders.
And still crap in imo
		
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Well I find YOU quite very rude. I would never tell anyone their opinions were crap, we are all entitled to them. Just because you aren't enlightened enough to appreciate anyone else's POV. I did not intend my statements to be sweeping, and I was merely pointing out a point which not many people were exploring. I stand by my statements. You can like it or lump it.


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## Marydoll (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			Well I find YOU quite very rude. I would never tell anyone their opinions were crap, we are all entitled to them. Just because you aren't enlightened enough to appreciate anyone else's POV. I did not intend my statements to be sweeping, and I was merely pointing out a point which not many people were exploring. I stand by my statements. You can like it or lump it.
		
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I'll lump it thanks  your sweeping generalisation of hackers was imo rude and uncalled for, which is why i responded in the way i did.


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## Ranyhyn (31 October 2011)

Surely being good at hacking and having a good hacking horse, is a skill in itself?  Thereby people who purely hack would be the best at this skill... How can it be that certain skill sets are frowned upon compared to others?

Someone who is good at hacking, in my book is JUST as impressive as someone good at showjumping/xc/polo etc etc  

And even if you aren't good at hacking, merely enjoy it and like me are quite happy being mediocre at most things  then don't let any one else make you feel less than them!  YOU should be the last word on your own worth


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## Enfys (31 October 2011)

lionman said:



			I am of an age when hunters were hacked to get fit, Point-to-pointers were hacked to get fit, even my eventer was hacked to get fit.  and it is still the best way  When I was work riding the arab racehorses on the edge of Dartmoor we didn't have gallops, we worked them on the moor and they got fit without even knowing they were working. Anywhere I have ever been that required horses to be fit hacked them, even if it was only 2 or 3 miles to the gallopsWe used to do fast work on a good bit of ground, out HACKING. Why has hacking got such a bad name!!
		
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Right, just to prove that I* really *am old, and deserving of being a GOW, when I was a child it was still almost de rigeur to wear jodhs and a hacking jacket just to go out for a jolly in the forestry on a Sunday morning with the rest of the local kids. All very Thelwell-ish on our assorted shaggy natives come to think of it   Hacking was all we had, PC rallies were where we had lessons, and then we hacked miles and miles to get to them. 

Perhaps it is a sign of the times, if only limited safe hacking routes are available in some areas perhaps hacking isn't as popular. I wonder if the percentage of those that hack has any relation to their locale?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			If Dragon Slayer and The Fuzzy Furry had bothered to read the rest of my posts,and SPYDA As well!!) they would have noticed that I had continued my point. I was NOT being sweeping. As already pointed out I found the original statement to be quite sweeping itself. There are two ends to every stick, and I was talking about the people who sit on 'bombproof' cobs and tootle about with no regard for making their horse work properly.
		
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Hang on a min - are you also  'Hayleyshep88' as well then on here, cos I was responding to her quoted post missus 

(I havent read later posts on this thread, since I responded to Hayleyshep's post early this morning)


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## Brambridge04 (31 October 2011)

We have a girl at our yard, her 2 horses cost a bomb, ad did saddle trailer, her lessons etc.... She competes in dressage, SJ, Events etc and is a total snob, She schools her horses beautifully, yet CANNOT get either of them to leave yard to hack. Has been seen walking down road, getting on there and trying again, before letting horse turn for home and schooling or jump. So she is a better rider than myself of some of my friends yes?? (aimed at dressagelove)

Bearing in mind, my self and some of my friends, dont compete, but can break, hack and school young, old, green, spooky horses.....


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## Enfys (31 October 2011)

Originally Posted by dressagelove  
. There are two ends to every stick, and I was talking about the people who sit on_* 'bombproof' cobs and tootle about *_with no regard for making their horse work properly. 


 You didn't really say that did you? Talk about lighting the touch paper! That's like going on AL and saying arabs are ugly.


Every single horse in my signature is pretty everything proof, not a single one of them is a cob. 
Shame, because I could sell them for $10,000 a piece if they were cobs


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## FionaM12 (31 October 2011)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Hang on a min - are you also  'Hayleyshep88' as well then on here, cos I was responding to her quoted post missus 

(I havent read later posts on this thread, since I responded to Hayleyshep's post early this morning)
		
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Oh hang on, you're right, I think she's changed her name!


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## rhino (31 October 2011)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Hang on a min - are you also  'Hayleyshep88' as well then on here, cos I was responding to her quoted post missus 

(I havent read later posts on this thread, since I responded to Hayleyshep's post early this morning)
		
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Yes, namechange


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## DragonSlayer (31 October 2011)

Enfys said:



			Originally Posted by dressagelove  
. There are two ends to every stick, and I was talking about the people who sit on_* 'bombproof' cobs and tootle about *_with no regard for making their horse work properly. 


  You didn't really say that did you? On purpose? 

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My husband has just given an answer to the ''bombproof' cobs and tootle about' comment...

'Bollox'


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## Marydoll (31 October 2011)

Enfys said:



			Originally Posted by dressagelove  
. There are two ends to every stick, and I was talking about the people who sit on_* 'bombproof' cobs and tootle about *_with no regard for making their horse work properly. 


  You didn't really say that did you? On purpose? 

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Moves on from shovel, to mechanical digger


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

haha! Yes i have changed my name, not cos of this thread, I aint scared of u *puts up fists* lol, I just felt my name displayed too much of my personal info, but since u all remember it anyway... lols. I am thoroughly regretting getting involved in this discussion anyway. I am a very sensitive person (not looking for any sympathy) and its all got me a bit down. Once this thread dies down, I will be a lurker


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## rhino (31 October 2011)

*Ahem* If you are worried about personal info then I would not put your personal website in your sig... with even more personal info on it!

and quotes such as:




			I love to take him hacking, going for a gallop up the fields, going to the beach, and generally having lots of fun!
		
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## FanyDuChamp (31 October 2011)

marydoll said:



			Moves on from shovel, to mechanical digger 

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Lol. Well said Marydoll
FDC


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## Enfys (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			haha! Yes i have changed my name, not cos of this thread, I aint scared of u *puts up fists* lol, I just felt my name displayed too much of my personal info, but since u all remember it anyway... lols. I am thoroughly regretting getting involved in this discussion anyway. I am a very sensitive person (not looking for any sympathy) and its all got me a bit down. Once this thread dies down, I will be a lurker 

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No, don't go, you've livened up a dull day.  It is only a discussion after all, in cyber land at that.

ps. Did you mean to have your web site up there, because that's giving away a lot more personal info than your previous name did


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

rhino said:



			*Ahem* If you are worried about personal info then I would not put your personal website in your sig... with even more personal info on it!

and quotes such as:
		
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I never ever said throughout any of my posts that I did not go hacking, I do go hacking, I find a bit more boring recently as am getting into my dressage loads. I took my other horse to the beach the other day and loved it. The original point of this thread was about snobbery in the horse world and that competitive people look down on happy hackers. The point raised that originially picked up on was that the OP put, does this mean that ahppy hackers are not good riders.
I have already explored that YES some of them are. BUT there will be some people who are not! That is all I was talking about, not very eloquently, but that was my only point.


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## Moggy in Manolos (31 October 2011)

Enfys said:



			I will freely admit that I know little and care less about higher standards of riding and schooling.  
I don't want to if I am to be honest, I am not interested, it bores me rigid, always has, always will, I leave that to the people who actually enjoy it.  

I am always in awe of people who work towards, and achieve, their own personal goals 

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Could not have put it better myself  




lhotse said:



			Hacking does not mean just being a passenger, it means being able to stay in tune with your horse over a meriad of different terrain, at all paces, and often for a long time. Give them a gate, and they didn't know what to do!!! I could do any gate in less time than it took them to get off!!

So, my point being, that just because someone prefers the open country over mindless circles in a school (and my mare was never ridden in a school, she hated it) does not imply that they are of a lesser ability. Infact, I would argue that riding over different terrain at different paces actually proves more ability than just being fixed into position in the confines of a school.  I know of people who compete in dressage who are scared of going for a gallop.
		
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Here, here lhotse. I have ridden all kinds of terrain and areas on many different horses over the years, mostly my late girl in more recent years. I was a pro at gates with my old girl, we did them in a flash, no problems, special horse friendly gates and any other type of gate, 5bars going which ever way round, me and my girl always did it 



DragonSlayer said:



			My husband has just given an answer to the ''bombproof' cobs and tootle about' comment...

'Bollox'



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Good answer, I am with him on that answer 
There were times where my girl was a calm tootling angel out hacking, but there were also times where I had to use all my skill to stay on and get her back in control


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## Enfys (31 October 2011)

marydoll said:



			Moves on from shovel, to mechanical digger 

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Chokes...


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## Marydoll (31 October 2011)

Enfys said:



			No, don't go, you've livened up a dull day.  It is only a discussion after all, in cyber land at that.

ps. Did you mean to have your web site up there, because that's giving away a lot more personal info than your previous name did 

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Agree, I  may not agree with this post, but you may have some gems i'll be interested in debating at another date


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## indie999 (31 October 2011)

I think it should be HAPPY HORSE not Happy Hacker....horses enjoy it as well.

I dont think its as snobby as it use to be ie horses use to be stabled and taken out for exercise and put straight back in..now everyone knows its healthier to let the horse have some outside time etc......hacking is an excellent form of exercise and I think a lot of people wont do it as they are not such good riders out of the bubble of the menage.

Pony clubbers are usually jacks of all trades and I love seeing the children out doing a bit of everything. If they hack too they are really well grounded horse people with a happy horse. 

One of the reasons I swear I have found it hard to find a hacking horse is so many people built menages during boom time and sent horses dizzy and going round in circles all day! People just dont work or hack horses like they use to do. When I went hacking I would meet shoots out, training hounds on horn etc, off roaders(push bikes/quad/motor etc) loose dogs/People suddenly appearing out of hedges/herds of deer running or had a stand off with a stag & its herd one morning. Flapping pheasants/fallen trees/helicoptors/hot air balloons/combines refilling blocking bridleways that dont see you. People crouched down metal detecting/other horses galloping along that havent seen you/cows/pigs/goats/flooding.............the list is endless. Most of these unexpected and a challenge sometimes but I dont think I am a brilliant rider by any means but unforseen and things I expect my horse & me to deal with. Doesnt bat an eyelid on main road as he is comfortable with all the above. We got so use to the crow scarer next to the bridleway that again didnt bat an eyelid. Completely de sensitised. 

I still think there is no better way to see the countryside from the back of a horse and those that dont hack are missing out.  Go to Newmarket and you see them out and about crossing main roads training etc not just on the gallops............Hacking is more interesting than going round in blooming circles.


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## darkhorse123 (31 October 2011)

indie999 said:



			I think it should be HAPPY HORSE not Happy Hacker....horses enjoy it as well.

I dont think its as snobby as it use to be ie horses use to be stabled and taken out for exercise and put straight back in..now everyone knows its healthier to let the horse have some outside time etc......hacking is an excellent form of exercise and I think a lot of people wont do it as they are not such good riders out of the bubble of the menage.

Pony clubbers are usually jacks of all trades and I love seeing the children out doing a bit of everything. If they hack too they are really well grounded horse people with a happy horse. 

One of the reasons I swear I have found it hard to find a hacking horse is so many people built menages during boom time and sent horses dizzy and going round in circles all day! People just dont work or hack horses like they use to do. When I went hacking I would meet shoots out, training hounds on horn etc, off roaders(push bikes/quad/motor etc) loose dogs/People suddenly appearing out of hedges/herds of deer running or had a stand off with a stag & its herd one morning. Flapping pheasants/fallen trees/helicoptors/hot air balloons/combines refilling blocking bridleways that dont see you. People crouched down metal detecting/other horses galloping along that havent seen you/cows/pigs/goats/flooding.............the list is endless. Most of these unexpected and a challenge sometimes but I dont think I am a brilliant rider by any means but unforseen and things I expect my horse & me to deal with. Doesnt bat an eyelid on main road as he is comfortable with all the above. We got so use to the crow scarer next to the bridleway that again didnt bat an eyelid. Completely de sensitised. 

I still think there is no better way to see the countryside from the back of a horse and those that dont hack are missing out.  Go to Newmarket and you see them out and about crossing main roads training etc not just on the gallops............Hacking is more interesting than going round in blooming circles.
		
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what she said!!!


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2011)

Indie999 if you are good at going round in circles and you have a horse who enjoys it it the least boring thing you will ever do. It's endlessly fascinating how horses balance change Learn and some horses love it they love to learn I have one at the moment who is a dressage horse in his soul he loves it but he will also hack and do whatever I need ( except hunting my guts tell me he would not like hunting ) I have another who hates the school and I put it down to bend bored to death by bad boring unconstructive schooling at some point so we keep him out of the school as much as possible just some grid work to help his jumping and a bit of lunging for his tummy muscles luckily he loves hunting. It's each to his own for horses and people.


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## Auslander (31 October 2011)

Getting REALLY bored with the repetitive snidey comments about people with expensive competition horses being too scared to hack, never going out of walk etc etc. It's complete rubbish...

You cannot get a horse fit enough to compete properly in any discipline without hacking/canter work. I've worked for dressage riders, showjumpers and eventers - and all of them have hacked out - we used to be out for hours with WFP's horses.

People who are too scared to go out of walk out hacking are highly unlikely to venture out to parties - which are FAR more exciting to the average horse than cantering down a bridlepath...


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## FionaM12 (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			I am thoroughly regretting getting involved in this discussion anyway. I am a very sensitive person (not looking for any sympathy) and its all got me a bit down. Once this thread dies down, I will be a lurker 

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I don't believe any of it's personal, it's just the way forums work. People feel free to be blunt if someone posts something contentious. Cheer up, it's nothing to get down about!

None of it matters, everyone just goes on to the next topic and this one will be forgotten. Don't be a lurker, join in! But maybe consider how your posts appear in future if you don't want a strong reaction. 

And be very careful on the subject of cobs...


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## rhino (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			The original point of this thread was about snobbery in the horse world and that competitive people look down on happy hackers. The point raised that originially picked up on was that the OP put, does this mean that ahppy hackers are not good riders.
		
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And I think everyone else's point was that not all competition riders are good riders are either.

What makes you good at riding has nothing to do with what you decide you would like to do with your horses!


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

rhino said:



			And I think everyone else's point was that not all competition riders are good riders are either.

What makes you good at riding has nothing to do with what you decide you would like to do with your horses!



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indeed, of course correct. If my sweeps had missed that out, then I apologise  Of course, there are many hopeless competitive riders


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## lhotse (31 October 2011)

http://fernsfarm.com/photos/titch/?photo=4

Hmmm, for someone who professes to be so perfect, and others inferior, where would you like me to start with the CC????


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

lhotse said:



http://fernsfarm.com/photos/titch/?photo=4

Hmmm, for someone who professes to be so perfect, and others inferior, where would you like me to start with the CC????
		
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Did I profess to be perfect?! I think not. You are incredibly rude, how dare you look at my website to try and find something to use against me, get a life you sad person. That has really quite upset me


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## NativePonyLover (31 October 2011)

There is snobbery everywhere though - and one person's 'not their cup of tea' is another person's dream horse  

I really don't care - I'm an absolute hobby rider, it has to be fun for me as I work hard enough Mon-Friday. I love hacking, I have regular lessons with my native. He may not look as flashy as my friend's dressage warmblood or an Olympic 2012 event horse, but I wouldn't want one - I doubt I'd be able to ride one side of it! 

As a twenty something adult owning 13.3hh native pony, I have experienced snobbery - but, I'm the one paying for him and I'm the one who comes back from every riding smiling and feeling lucky to have such a fab equine partner - if other people feel he is beneath them, then they probably aren't my type of person anyway. 

Besides, I'm busy having fun - I haven't got time to worry what people think, I'm happy hacking around, yes I want to improve but for me and my ponio, not anyone else's idea of what is good or more acceptable


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## Spot_the_Risk (31 October 2011)

I've never encountered snobbery regarding those who primarily hack.  I hack my 19 year old, he is spooky but safe ie shies but doesn't leave the county flat out!, but he doesn't enjoy being in the school, and neither do I, so 'do what you like, and like what you do' - simple.


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## FionaM12 (31 October 2011)

lhotse said:



http://fernsfarm.com/photos/titch/?photo=4

Hmmm, for someone who professes to be so perfect, and others inferior, where would you like me to start with the CC????
		
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Sorry Dressagelove, it seems a few people DO get personal.

I think this is an unnecessary and rather unkind post, Ihotse.


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## Black_Horse_White (31 October 2011)

Its all about happy riding whatever you do. We all have a common interest, the love of horses. Who cares what breed or what we do with them, as long as we and more importantly our horses are happy.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			indeed, of course correct. If my sweeps had missed that out, then I apologise  Of course, there are many hopeless competitive riders 

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Redressing the balance - I thank you 

So, to sum up the whole thread: we are all avid riders or horse owners or want-to-be-owners on here.

We all like the same hobby, tho many diversify their activities within the hobby.

Some are better than others at their selected activity.

Some are not so good at their selected activity.

Some will not try others activities.

Hurrah! 

Diversity makes the world go round, so tonights theme is EQUALITY (we all have equines close to our hearts) and DIVERSITY as we all do different things 

Sermon over, got a coffee to make


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## darkhorse123 (31 October 2011)

Black_Horse_White said:



			Its all about happy riding whatever you do. We all have a common interest, the love of horses. Who cares what breed or what we do with them, as long as we and more importantly our horses are happy.
		
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totally agreed - how boring would life be if we were all the same?


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## Spring Feather (31 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Sorry Dressagelove, it seems a few people DO get personal.

I think this is an unnecessary and rather unkind post, Ihotse.
		
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OMG how bad do I feel now as I also looked at Dressagelove's website and watched a video and immediately went  at the riding.  I wouldn't have said anything on here though ... oops now I have 

As others have said, for almost every type of competition in all disciplines I do not believe it is possible to get a horse truly fit enough without hacking.  Some hackers can ride and some can't; I think that's the long and short of it.


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## 1Lucie (31 October 2011)

I probably fall into 'happy hacker' catorgry. I can think of anything better than hacking in the sunshine with nothing but countryside around.

However,i do school my horse regularly and take lessons. At the end of the day people should do whatever makes them happy and their horses too!!

Who cares if ur a hacker, top eventer or dressage rider?!! Doesnt necessarily mean ur more or less knowledgable or ur horse is cared for any less!


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			OMG how bad do I feel now as I also looked at Dressagelove's website and watched a video and immediately went  at the riding.  I wouldn't have said anything on here though ... oops now I have 

As others have said, for almost every type of competition in all disciplines I do not believe it is possible to get a horse truly fit enough without hacking.  Some hackers can ride and some can't; I think that's the long and short of it.
		
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I cannot believe how rude people can be. You my dear, need to get a life. I never got personal, which is more than I can say for others on here.


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## Merry Crisis (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			Did I profess to be perfect?! I think not. You are incredibly rude, how dare you look at my website to try and find something to use against me, get a life you sad person. That has really quite upset me
		
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Wingey, winey, ghastley poster! If you cant take it dont give it. Now go away and grow some balls. I have read enough of your rubbish


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

lionman said:



			Wingey, winey, ghastley poster! If you cant take it dont give it. Now go away and grow some balls. I have read enough of your rubbish
		
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I dont care if you have had enough of my rubbish. It is a public forum after all. Another rudey. you really are all charming.


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## FionaM12 (31 October 2011)

Am I the only one who feels people are being rather TOO harsh on this young woman? She made some opinionated and rather rash comments which many of us strongly disagreed with and said so.

It's clear she's made herself look a bit silly, but she HAS backed down and reconsidered quite a bit. Is there really any need to carry on having a go? And going on her website in order to humiliate her about her riding is uncalled for surely?

This thread makes me feel rather uncomfortable now. It's beginning to look a lot like bullying.


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## rhino (31 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Am I the only one who feels people are being rather TOO harsh on this young woman? She made some opinionated and rather rash comments which many of us strongly disagreed with and said so.
		
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I agree completely. Ironic as that may be, as I was the first to draw attention to her website, but only because she was 'worried' about the personal information in her username, and I found the 'love of hacking' quote amusing considering the thread.

I do feel sorry for her, she is obviously young and did eventually realise how the words she had originally written were interpreted by posters. I think enough is enough though


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## Spring Feather (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			I cannot believe how rude people can be. You my dear, need to get a life. I never got personal, which is more than I can say for others on here.
		
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I have a life which is why I don't come on here very often   I never got rude or personal either, I just went  in a jocular fashion, which apparently judging by the outraged PM you just sent me, the joke flew right on by you.  BTW Websites are for advertising, so if you don't want people to look at yours then take it off your signature.


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## Shantara (31 October 2011)

I think you need to all calm down and I don't think DressageLove deserves those comments at all!!

I think there's a difference between the rather patronising "happy hacker" and a hacker.

I see happy hackers as riders who just wander down the road, not really worrying if they get anything more than a canter, just happy being with the horse. Not that this is a bad thing! It's what you want to do, so do it 
Whereas a hacker may jump, gallop, swim, climb etc etc...

I guess you could class me as inbetween! If something exciting comes along, I'll do it! If not, oh well, I got to ride 

I do envy comp. riders sometimes, I'd love to jump that high and get that wonderful canter, but I don't have the time, nor the horse (Or the jumping skills!).

It takes bravery to jump a course of jumps, just as it does to get a spooky horse past a lorry.

I do some local shows and I've managed to get 2nd, but I don't take it too seriously


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## DragonSlayer (31 October 2011)

It never ceases to amaze me that when someone posts on here and generally insults many, the many rise up to defend themselves, the original poster cries somewhat, then others start playing the bully card....?

Either THINK before you post then you won't get in this mess OR as Lionman says, grow some balls and suck it up...


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## FionaM12 (31 October 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			I have a life which is why I don't come on here very often   I never got rude or personal either, I just went  in a jocular fashion, which apparently judging by the outraged PM you just sent me, the joke flew right on by you.  BTW Websites are for advertising, so if you don't want people to look at yours then take it off your signature.
		
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I could see that your post was jokey and light-hearted SF. But I think Dressagelove was probably feeling so "got at" by then she couldn't see it that way!

Dressagelove, if I were you I'd go offline for a while, have a cup of tea and calm down. Most of us are NOT having a go.


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

Yes , I have gotton a bit hysterical, I have been given a stern talking to by my OH, and am calming down. Im sorry Spring Feather, it did completely pass me by that you were being ironic. Thanks Fiona M, x


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## brown tack (31 October 2011)

Dressagelover, just a little hint, not having a go. But you way too much personal info on your website. The only thing missing is your bank details. Id be changing a fair bit of it tbh


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## Spring Feather (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			Yes , I have gotton a bit hysterical, I have been given a stern talking to by my OH, and am calming down. Im sorry Spring Feather, it did completely pass me by that you were being ironic. Thanks Fiona M, x
		
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I apologise too.  Sorry to make you feel bad.  It wasn't intentional, I was just having a bit of fun with you to try to lighten the mood


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## FionaM12 (31 October 2011)

*(((((group hug)))))*?

And before anyone jumps on me, I'm being IRONIC, okay?


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## 5horses2dogsandacat (31 October 2011)

Im a little late reading this thread and in all honesty havent read all what people have said (im half revising.. half keeping myself from become a vegetable and reading about horses  ) 

However... 

I used to compete, have lessons, hack try everything I could.. I do feel my riding has deteriorated since I stopped lessons and competing. But if im not sounding too big headed, dont think Im a bad rider. Im balanced, I sit broncing sessions, shoulders being dropped etc.. I do however lose enthusiasm with riding when Im just hacking, I feel I have no goal to reach, why should I be sitting in an absolutely classical seat with my horse working hard to step out when we could both amble along together in comfort? After all the most I will see is a squirrel, and I havent as yet seen one sitting in a dressage box marking my position lol 

There is snobbery, as you get with everything competitive.. its just the nature of some people, but you get it every where from Equine Sports to showing guinea pigs. 

I think the long and the short of it is in my opinion, you will have natural riders who have the instant riding gift, who are just happy to hack and you will have the god awful riders, that shouldnt be let lose on a horse competing.. its a range through out the industry, and its what I love (not the terrible riders... some of them need locking up..) as there really is that will appeal to everyone and to every horse... we forget some horses love to compete while others find it such an ordeal and are happy to mooch round a field eat blackberries with their owner  


p.s if you skim through the post you will see a diverse range of characters coming out... some people are rude, other diplomatic. The same can go towards thoughts on riding disciplines.  .


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## lhotse (31 October 2011)

Seeing as the website is in the public domain, as are all the photos on it, does that mean I have to ask permission to view it?
Personally, I have found DressageLove's comments to be extremely derogatory of people who choose not to compete. I suggest you read back over your comments DressageLove and see that labelling people who only hack, such as myself, as inferior riders is offensive to me and probably others too.
If you can't take it, then I suggest you don't hand it out.

I don't think that sending me nasty PM's and reporting me to admin is really an adult thing to do when you advertise your website on their forum.


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## quirky (31 October 2011)

To be fair to dressagelove, you'd have to have nerves of steel to hack out from the yard she is on, it is on a major A road.

I love hacking .

When I got my mare as a 3 yr old, she was frightened of traffic, due to my expert riding and phenomenal skill , she is more or less bomb proof now.


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## DragonSlayer (31 October 2011)

lhotse said:



			Seeing as the website is in the public domain, as are all the photos on it, does that mean I have to ask permission to view it?
Personally, I have found DressageLove's comments to be extremely derogatory of people who choose not to compete. I suggest you read back over your comments DressageLove and see that labelling people who only hack, such as myself, as inferior riders is offensive to me and probably others too.
If you can't take it, then I suggest you don't hand it out.

I don't think that sending me nasty PM's and reporting me to admin is really an adult thing to do when you advertise your website on their forum.
		
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Who is sending you nasty PM's??

...and what did YOU do wrong? YOu don't have 2 accounts, do you....?


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## quirky (31 October 2011)

DragonSlayer said:



			...and what did YOU do wrong? YOu don't have 2 accounts, do you....?
		
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dressagelove doesn't have 2 accounts, she name changed from hayleyshep88.


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## Natz88 (31 October 2011)

I do abit of everything, local competions & hacking. Everyone rides different. We are all confident in our own ways from hacking to competing. I enjoy pampering my boys just as much as riding them & I feel alot of the confidence comes from the handling just as much as the riding. If I am honest I am not the tidiest rider, but I not bothered what people think as I am happy & so are my horses. I am on a big yard & majority of people only happy hack. It's each to their own as long as horse & rider are happy what ever there doing then so be it


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## Merry Crisis (31 October 2011)

DragonSlayer said:



			Who is sending you nasty PM's??

...and what did YOU do wrong? YOu don't have 2 accounts, do you....?
		
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What the feck!! Wingey little bint.


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## lhotse (31 October 2011)

No, not 2 accounts, just the one I've always had. Is it against forum rules to post a photo from a website that is advertised on this forum? Just working out how long my ban will be!
DressageLove, yes, I probably shouldn't have posted the link, but to be fair, you have been more than derogatory about people who you perseive as inferior riders on this thread, and to be honest, it was p***ing me off.


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## DragonSlayer (31 October 2011)

quirky said:



			dressagelove doesn't have 2 accounts, she name changed from hayleyshep88.
		
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Ah, I get it now, changed names when things started to get a bit heated, I understand.

Ihotse, I do hope you contact admin over this, I am hoping you don't get a refraction.....and I was also being sarcastic over the 2 accounts....


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## muffinmunsh (31 October 2011)

Jeeeeeeez... Just let it go, all of you. 'Nuff said by everyone now. Have a cuppa and a slice of cake 
And most of all another threat ;-)


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## proudwilliam (31 October 2011)

I fall into all aspects of horse ownership

When I rode my horse and I went on picnics together just poddeling around the lanes great for stress release.
He competed in all disiplines. But most of all I loved him and he gave so much back to me.


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## muffinmunsh (31 October 2011)

... Or thread even 
Excuse lack of grasp of your beautiful lingo


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## rhino (31 October 2011)

DragonSlayer said:



			Ah, I get it now, changed names when things started to get a bit heated, I understand.

Ihotse, I do hope you contact admin over this, I am hoping you don't get a refraction.....
		
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Not that there is anything in the t&cs against having multiple accounts - as long as they are not used 'inappropriately'.

Dressagelove was just feeling very 'got at' and I can kind of understand why to be honest!

*whispers* and it's infraction


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## Merry Crisis (31 October 2011)

lhotse said:



			No, not 2 accounts, just the one I've always had. Is it against forum rules to post a photo from a website that is advertised on this forum? Just working out how long my ban will be!
DressageLove, yes, I probably shouldn't have posted the link, but to be fair, you have been more than derogatory about people who you perseive as inferior riders on this thread, and to be honest, it was p***ing me off.
		
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Me too!! She has well and truly got on my Tits.


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## Annie&Lilly (31 October 2011)

sussexbythesea said:



			My observation on this forum and others is that happy hackers and (dare I say it) cob owners  spend far too much time worrying about what other people think and often in doing so come across as snobs themselves as they then proceed to put down all other riders because they compete or own a warmblood  

Click to expand...

I own a very furry hairy cob and a very stereo typical dutch warmblood (No, i don't have a type!)

BOTH hack out very sensibly in the heaviest of traffic, and BOTH are affiliated and compete in dressage at Medium level.

I don't give a proverbial about what anybody thinks. my girls are well rounded and happy, because they see a bit of everything!


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## lhotse (31 October 2011)

DragonSlayer said:



			Ah, I get it now, changed names when things started to get a bit heated, I understand.

Ihotse, I do hope you contact admin over this, I am hoping you don't get a refraction.....and I was also being sarcastic over the 2 accounts.... 

Click to expand...

Another infraction to go with the other one, which ironically I got for exposing Ted'sMum for what she really was nearly a year ago!!

As for DressageLove, pot/kettle/black. If you can't take it love, don't dish it out. Also, you haven't taken me up on my offer of a hack, to show you that 'happy hackers' can ride just as well as you dressage divas. Are you scared?


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## DragonSlayer (31 October 2011)

rhino said:



			Not that there is anything in the t&cs against having multiple accounts - as long as they are not used 'inappropriately'.

Dressagelove was just feeling very 'got at' and I can kind of understand why to be honest!

*whispers* and it's infraction 

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Doh!

....in my defence I'm watching 'Paranormal Activity 2' and the laptop leaps 2 foot in the air when something happens! Making allsorts of mistakes....!


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## Holly Hocks (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
		
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Have you ever thought that some people may only hack because their horse has been injured and can now only hack out?  They're not cold-hearted enough to have their broken toy PTS so they can buy a shiny new one.  They are horse lovers.
There are dressage riders competing at a LOT higher level than you who don't have access to an all-weather floodlit, perfectly harrowed arena  and have to school in fields and on the roads who get an excellent performance from their horses.
There are a lot of people on this forum who will have competed at a much higher level than you will ever achieve who are now only happy hackers.  If I were one of them, I would be truely offended by your comments.
And as for your comment "don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc",  I believe the level you are currently working at requires very little knowledge of any of the higher standards.  
I did take the liberty of having a look at your web/blog/it's all about me site......your saddlecloth needs washing.  I think I would remove some of those photos - they are not flattering.  In your case, less would be most definitely more....
Good luck in your dressage career.


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## Marydoll (31 October 2011)

DragonSlayer said:



			Doh!

....in my defence I'm watching 'Paranormal Activity 2' and the laptop leaps 2 foot in the air when something happens! Making allsorts of mistakes....!
		
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Pmsl that films nearly as scary as posting on the forum


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## indie999 (31 October 2011)

Auslander said:



			Getting REALLY bored with the repetitive snidey comments about people with expensive competition horses being too scared to hack, never going out of walk etc etc. It's complete rubbish...

You cannot get a horse fit enough to compete properly in any discipline without hacking/canter work. I've worked for dressage riders, showjumpers and eventers - and all of them have hacked out - we used to be out for hours with WFP's horses.

People who are too scared to go out of walk out hacking are highly unlikely to venture out to parties - which are FAR more exciting to the average horse than cantering down a bridlepath...
		
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Where I live am surrounded by a lot of horses who are exactly the type that never go out. The horses next to mine are in the menage being ridden by TRAINERS. I suggested to go out for hack for the younger horse and the owner looked at me as if I was nuts!....Too much money, private in house facilities, well looked after horses! The owner is scared. We have lots of posh horses around here and I have never seen them out hacking at all. Less than more.


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## Sussexbythesea (31 October 2011)

Annie&Lilly said:



			I own a very furry hairy cob and a very stereo typical dutch warmblood (No, i don't have a type!)

BOTH hack out very sensibly in the heaviest of traffic, and BOTH are affiliated and compete in dressage at Medium level.

I don't give a proverbial about what anybody thinks. my girls are well rounded and happy, because they see a bit of everything!
		
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At last someone responded to my comment woo hoo! I thought I was invisible. 

Well done you Annie&Lilly that's my whole point why let it stress you what others think? although you do sound a little stressy.


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

lhotse said:



			Another infraction to go with the other one, which ironically I got for exposing Ted'sMum for what she really was nearly a year ago!!

As for DressageLove, pot/kettle/black. If you can't take it love, don't dish it out. Also, you haven't taken me up on my offer of a hack, to show you that 'happy hackers' can ride just as well as you dressage divas. Are you scared?
		
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Not scared in the slightest, I have hunted, evented, been riding since I was 4, and have an excellent seat, regardless of what you might think, so bring it on, I am up for extreme hacking.


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## DragonSlayer (31 October 2011)

marydoll said:



			Pmsl that films nearly as scary as posting on the forum

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...the baby slid down the cot and out....ARGH!


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## Merry Crisis (31 October 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			Have you ever thought that some people may only hack because their horse has been injured and can now only hack out?  They're not cold-hearted enough to have their broken toy PTS so they can buy a shiny new one.  They are horse lovers.
There are dressage riders competing at a LOT higher level than you who don't have access to an all-weather floodlit, perfectly harrowed arena  and have to school in fields and on the roads who get an excellent performance from their horses.
There are a lot of people on this forum who will have competed at a much higher level than you will ever achieve who are now only happy hackers.  If I were one of them, I would be truely offended by your comments.
And as for your comment "don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc",  I believe the level you are currently working at requires very little knowledge of any of the higher standards.  
I did take the liberty of having a look at your web/blog/it's all about me site......your saddlecloth needs washing.  I think I would remove some of those photos - they are not flattering.  In your case, less would be most definitely more....
Good luck in your dressage career.
		
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God I love you!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (31 October 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			Have you ever thought that some people may only hack because their horse has been injured and can now only hack out?  They're not cold-hearted enough to have their broken toy PTS so they can buy a shiny new one.  They are horse lovers.
There are dressage riders competing at a LOT higher level than you who don't have access to an all-weather floodlit, perfectly harrowed arena  and have to school in fields and on the roads who get an excellent performance from their horses.
There are a lot of people on this forum who will have competed at a much higher level than you will ever achieve who are now only happy hackers.  If I were one of them, I would be truely offended by your comments.
And as for your comment "don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc",  I believe the level you are currently working at requires very little knowledge of any of the higher standards.  
I did take the liberty of having a look at your web/blog/it's all about me site......your saddlecloth needs washing.  I think I would remove some of those photos - they are not flattering.  In your case, less would be most definitely more....
Good luck in your dressage career.
		
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*like*


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## lhotse (31 October 2011)

You might want to wash your saddlecloth first though, or the horse will have a sore back.
I hope you understand why I aimed my comment at you. Nobody is perfect, but to state so surely as you did, that poeple who just hack are inferior riders is as offensive to me, as you found my post to you. So we are equal now.


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## FionaM12 (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			I have hunted, evented, been riding since I was 4, and have an excellent seat
		
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 If you're going to post boastful stuff like that, Dressagelove, you shouldn't be surprised if people want to bring you down a peg or two.

Personally, I always think that whether or not a rider has an excellent seat isn't really for them to say. If you have, it will be obvious to others. Boasting about it does you no favours.

I'm NOT getting at you. It's just you seem to be digging yourself into a hole again....


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			Have you ever thought that some people may only hack because their horse has been injured and can now only hack out?  They're not cold-hearted enough to have their broken toy PTS so they can buy a shiny new one.  They are horse lovers.
There are dressage riders competing at a LOT higher level than you who don't have access to an all-weather floodlit, perfectly harrowed arena  and have to school in fields and on the roads who get an excellent performance from their horses.
There are a lot of people on this forum who will have competed at a much higher level than you will ever achieve who are now only happy hackers.  If I were one of them, I would be truely offended by your comments.
And as for your comment "don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc",  I believe the level you are currently working at requires very little knowledge of any of the higher standards.  
I did take the liberty of having a look at your web/blog/it's all about me site......your saddlecloth needs washing.  I think I would remove some of those photos - they are not flattering.  In your case, less would be most definitely more....
Good luck in your dressage career.
		
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Again, another personal attack on someone who doesnt know me. That is not my arena, it is my instructors. And how on earth do you know what level I will achieve? Everyone has to start at the bottom. Also, I later on in this thread recognised my comments had been taken the wrong way, and I corrected this, and recognised the wisdom of all the points you have so kindly pointed out. I was big enough to apologise for anything I may have said to upset anyone.


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## rhino (31 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Personally, I always think that whether or not a rider has an excellent seat isn't really for them to say. If you have, it will be obvious to others. Boasting about it does you no favours.
		
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I have an excellent seat.







Oh wait, no, I meant I have a _fat @rse_. That's not the same, is it?


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



 If you're going to post boastful stuff like that, Dressagelove, you shouldn't be surprised if people want to bring you down a peg or two.

Personally, I always think that whether or not a rider has an excellent seat isn't really for them to say. If you have, it will be obvious to others. Boasting about it does you no favours.

I'm NOT getting at you. It's just you seem to be digging yourself into a hole again....

Click to expand...

Lol, i know, I will wise up soon and stop digging? I only meant having a good seat in being able to stick on *sometimes* when my horse spooks, bucks, legs it etc which he does regularly. Apparently according to people on here my dressage seat needs work, well thanks, I will bear it in mind


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## DragonSlayer (31 October 2011)

ARRGGH! The kitchen cupboards just went nuts and blew open! Laptop almost ended up on the floor...! 

Sky Premiere is anyone is interested....!

...and when that low rumble starts...I bet it was hair-raising in the cinema!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			I have hunted, evented, been riding since I was 4, and have an excellent seat, regardless of what you might think, so bring it on, I am up for extreme hacking.
		
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DL, take a break, you are winding yourself & others up and quite honestly with comments like the one above, you really are shooting yourself in the foot by bigging yourself up


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## lhotse (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			Oh dear, I knew I would get picked on! God forgive me for looking at the other side of the argument  I never said they did, the point I was trying to make, is that happy hackers won't be able to get their horses to do what other riders can do. Like I said, it depends on what your definition of a 'good rider' is.
		
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When you write such sweeping statements as this, then can you see why poeple like me, a 'happy hacker' get so offended? You know nothing of my ability to ride, nor anyone else who you are tarring with that brush on here, yet you have argued that point for nearly 15 pages. How do you know what I am capable of getting my horse or anyone elses to do?
Also, I never pointed out anything wrong in your picture, I was just proving a point that it's not nice to be critised, even though I never actually did.


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## dressagelove (31 October 2011)

lhotse said:



			When you write such sweeping statements as this, then can you see why poeple like me, a 'happy hacker' get so offended? You know nothing of my ability to ride, nor anyone else who you are tarring with that brush on here, yet you have argued that point for nearly 15 pages. How do you know what I am capable of getting my horse or anyone elses to do?
Also, I never pointed out anything wrong in your picture, I was just proving a point that it's not nice to be critised, even though I never actually did.
		
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I promise I shall stop posting on here after this.... maybe  

Again, I have already recognised that this was sweeping, I believe I apologised for it as well? If not, I apologise again. It was indeed a sweeping statement, and NOT true of ALL riders, but I have already said this.


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## rockysmum (31 October 2011)

rhino said:



			I have an excellent seat.







Oh wait, no, I meant I have a _fat @rse_. That's not the same, is it?
















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ROFL wish it was, I might take up dressage then


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## Holly Hocks (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			Again, another personal attack on someone who doesnt know me. That is not my arena, it is my instructors. And how on earth do you know what level I will achieve? Everyone has to start at the bottom. Also, I later on in this thread recognised my comments had been taken the wrong way, and I corrected this, and recognised the wisdom of all the points you have so kindly pointed out. I was big enough to apologise for anything I may have said to upset anyone.
		
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I read all your posts thank you - every one of them.
I responded to your points as I saw fit. I believe you will not be too far from me if you compete at Myerscough.  If you would like to come and ride my mare out, I will testify to how good your seat is.  She will also be able to teach you some of the high school movements as she does these voluntarily and on a regular basis.


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## FionaM12 (31 October 2011)

dressagelove said:



			I promise I shall stop posting on here after this.... maybe 

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Nah, carry on posting. But maybe engage brain before hitting keyboard perhaps? 

And try not to take it all so personally!

Calm down dear, it's only a forum.


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## FionaM12 (31 October 2011)

rhino said:



			I have an excellent seat.







Oh wait, no, I meant I have a _fat @rse_. That's not the same, is it?
















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Hahahahaha!


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## Spring Feather (31 October 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			She will also be able to teach you some of the high school movements as she does these voluntarily and on a regular basis.
		
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Lol!  I have a couple of those "classical" horses too


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## Welshie Squisher (31 October 2011)

Gosh is this still going on, I can see why.


Someone has a mighty big shovel


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## jenz87 (31 October 2011)

This has absolutely nothing to do with me, i have not read all 20 pages, but from what i can see, It looks like DL is really getting laid into, by several members.

I do not agree with DL statements or her comments, BUT she has apologised repeatedly and some of the comments in response are quite horrible!

Two wrongs dont make a right and all that! 

As said before, i dont agree with the comments from either side, but surely us fellow HHO members are adults and id like to think, not bullies?


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## Daytona (31 October 2011)

I am in shock at how rude some people are...!!!! Words fail me right now..!!  Some quite nasty individuals commenting on this post.


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## Shantara (1 November 2011)

^^^ Agreed!

I swear, this thread is as bad as bear-baiting...or Jeremy Kyle! Whichever is worse.
There's a difference between straight talking and being a d*uche.


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## YorksG (1 November 2011)

Perhaps if the OP had made her apologies and then proved her sincerity by not continuing to tell people how much better a rider she believed herself to be, than those who 'only' hack, then others would have let the subject drop. It never fails to amaze me how people believe it is acceptable for them to be rude, but then cry foul when the people they have offended give similar back. It also amuses me when people call themselves competition riders, when all they do is compete at local and riding club level


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## Daytona (1 November 2011)

Reading some of these people posts it would appear these people would feel quite at home on Jeremy Vile's stage spouting abuse for all and sundry to hear.  Worse than school yard bullying.


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## Welshie Squisher (1 November 2011)

I see the moral highground bashers are now out 

This means this thread in theory is about to go off the radar.

They always go through the same sequence:

Someone says something to offend...
Loads of folk defend themselves and the original offender gets a bashing 
Then the offended bashers themselves get bashed by the moral highground bashhers 

Thread then dies and disappears into the abyss till some tw*t ressurects it on a Friday night because they are bored and have no friends 

**Ducks for cover from the moral highground bashers**...............Not


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## Keimanp (1 November 2011)

In any topic Sweeping Statements are always made, it is inevitable. That does not mean to say they're aren't exceptions to the rule/statement.

I would say that you are more likely to find Warmbloods competing at a 'higher' level than you would a traditional 'cob'

I would also say that you are more likely to find a traditional 'cob' as the trusty steed of a 'Happy Hacker' rather than a Warmblood.

I would suggest that Warmbloods are more 'sensitive' to injury than a traditional 'cob'

I would say that 'Competitive' riders strive harder for improvement of thier riding than the 'Happy Hacker'

I would say that the 'Happy Hacker' has more bad habits when compared to the *textbook* way of riding than the 'Competitive' rider.

I would suggest there are more traditional 'cobs' and 'Happy Hacker's' than there are 'Competitive' Riders.

Neither riding style is better, the 'Competitive' rider will feel out of depth in a 'Happy Hacker' environment when compared to the Happy Hacker in his/her world. Similarly if the 'Happy Hacker' was dropped in a 'Competitive' riders field of choice they would feel more out of depth than the 'Competitive' rider. As would both horses if their roles were reversed.

There are times when the generalisations don't fit, and that is a good thing, they shouldn't. It means we have a wide demographic of riders in a wide choice of disciplines all able to help their peers improve and with that the improvement of the care of horses which brings pretty much everyone of us to this forum.

I am proud to both hack and compete and feel I can learn a lot from both those who compete and train and never hack to those who would never dream of spending the week in the school when there are so many lanes to explore with their best friend.

It is important to be able to realise the strengths and weaknesses in our own riding and that of others, to help us all improve.


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## Enfys (1 November 2011)

Keimanp said:



			In any topic Sweeping Statements are always made, it is inevitable. That does not mean to say they're aren't exceptions to the rule/statement.

I would say that you are more likely to find Warmbloods competing at a 'higher' level than you would a traditional 'cob'

I would also say that you are more likely to find a traditional 'cob' as the trusty steed of a 'Happy Hacker' rather than a Warmblood.

I would suggest that Warmbloods are more 'sensitive' to injury than a traditional 'cob'

I would say that 'Competitive' riders strive harder for improvement of thier riding than the 'Happy Hacker'

I would say that the 'Happy Hacker' has more bad habits when compared to the *textbook* way of riding than the 'Competitive' rider.

I would suggest there are more traditional 'cobs' and 'Happy Hacker's' than there are 'Competitive' Riders.

Neither riding style is better, the 'Competitive' rider will feel out of depth in a 'Happy Hacker' environment when compared to the Happy Hacker in his/her world. Similarly if the 'Happy Hacker' was dropped in a 'Competitive' riders field of choice they would feel more out of depth than the 'Competitive' rider. As would both horses if their roles were reversed.

There are times when the generalisations don't fit, and that is a good thing, they shouldn't. It means we have a wide demographic of riders in a wide choice of disciplines all able to help their peers improve and with that the improvement of the care of horses which brings pretty much everyone of us to this forum.

I am proud to both hack and compete and feel I can learn a lot from both those who compete and train and never hack to those who would never dream of spending the week in the school when there are so many lanes to explore with their best friend.

It is important to be able to realise the strengths and weaknesses in our own riding and that of others to help us all improve.
		
Click to expand...


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## rockysmum (1 November 2011)

YorksG said:



			. It also amuses me when people call themselves competition riders, when all they do is compete at local and riding club level 

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LOL This thread just gets better and better.

I'm standing back now to see if anyone notices this statement.

It should have been a thread on its own for saturday night.


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## Amymay (1 November 2011)

dressagelove said:



			I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section.  Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?
		
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Well that's an amusing start to a Tuesday morning


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## Elsbells (1 November 2011)

Keimanp said:



			In any topic Sweeping Statements are always made, it is inevitable. That does not mean to say they're aren't exceptions to the rule/statement.

I would say that you are more likely to find Warmbloods competing at a 'higher' level than you would a traditional 'cob'

I would also say that you are more likely to find a traditional 'cob' as the trusty steed of a 'Happy Hacker' rather than a Warmblood.

I would suggest that Warmbloods are more 'sensitive' to injury than a traditional 'cob'

I would say that 'Competitive' riders strive harder for improvement of thier riding than the 'Happy Hacker'

I would say that the 'Happy Hacker' has more bad habits when compared to the *textbook* way of riding than the 'Competitive' rider.

I would suggest there are more traditional 'cobs' and 'Happy Hacker's' than there are 'Competitive' Riders.

Neither riding style is better, the 'Competitive' rider will feel out of depth in a 'Happy Hacker' environment when compared to the Happy Hacker in his/her world. Similarly if the 'Happy Hacker' was dropped in a 'Competitive' riders field of choice they would feel more out of depth than the 'Competitive' rider. As would both horses if their roles were reversed.

There are times when the generalisations don't fit, and that is a good thing, they shouldn't. It means we have a wide demographic of riders in a wide choice of disciplines all able to help their peers improve and with that the improvement of the care of horses which brings pretty much everyone of us to this forum.

I am proud to both hack and compete and feel I can learn a lot from both those who compete and train and never hack to those who would never dream of spending the week in the school when there are so many lanes to explore with their best friend.

It is important to be able to realise the strengths and weaknesses in our own riding and that of others, to help us all improve.
		
Click to expand...

Well said and very true!


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## lhotse (1 November 2011)

speighty79 said:



			Reading some of these people posts it would appear these people would feel quite at home on Jeremy Vile's stage spouting abuse for all and sundry to hear.  Worse than school yard bullying.
		
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Get down off your high horse before you fall dear.


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## Feathered (1 November 2011)

Well said Keimanp! 

A Jeremy Kyle for horsey women!! Now that's a show I would watch! Maybe Tim Stockdale could host, I think he might just be able to keep it under control...


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## bensababy (1 November 2011)

The bully card always pops up in threads like this - so predicatable. Sorry but OP should be able to take it as well as she dishes it out.. deal with it or move on.

On a separate note - Lionman (sp) think you are my new fav poster.. you make me chuckle.


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## PaddyMonty (1 November 2011)

At the end of the day if people in the equine world spent a little less time worrying what others do and a little more time focussing on what they do the horse world would be a better place.

As long as horse and rider are both happy what the hell does it matter what they do. 

Ooops just realised, I dont have a horse so my opinion doesn't count


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## Natz88 (1 November 2011)

It also amuses me when people call themselves competition riders said:
			
		


			Since joining the forum I come on here alot & try to avoid any arguments etc as I can't be doing with chilidish tit for tat behavour, but I saw this comment & thought I will stand by ground on this one. I compete low level sj & xc at local shows around the area & while I am on that show ground I would class myself as a competion rider as I am at the show to compete against other competitors. If i was there just to ride about & not participate then I wouldn't call myself a comeption rider. So what I am saying is as soon as I am on the show ground with my show gear on I am a competion rider.
		
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## Natz88 (1 November 2011)

I have done the quote thing wrong, Nothing is ever simple for me haha


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## YorksG (1 November 2011)

Natz88 said:



			Since joining the forum I come on here alot & try to avoid any arguments etc as I can't be doing with chilidish tit for tat behavour, but I saw this comment & thought I will stand by ground on this one. I compete low level sj & xc at local shows around the area & while I am on that show ground I would class myself as a competion rider as I am at the show to compete against other competitors. If i was there just to ride about & not participate then I wouldn't call myself a comeption rider. So what I am saying is as soon as I am on the show ground with my show gear on I am a competion rider.
		
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Yes I agree with your sentiment, BUT do you talk about your 'competition horse' ? Do you talk as if you are going to HOYS (as a competitor not a spectator  ) Do you look down on those people who choose not to enter any competitions, because you are a 'competition rider'? These are the people I am amused by


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## Natz88 (1 November 2011)

I don't look down at anyone that don't compete one of my ponies I only happy hack with & do the odd show or fun ride. I also don't look down at non competitors as my mum has a cob that she happy hacks & we also have a sharer that only happy hacks. I have a 4yr old that I am bringing on to compete with so when he is out & about I would probs class him as my competion horse as thats why I got him to bring on to compete. I don't talk like I am going to HOYS, but soemtimes with my nerves you would think I was going to HOYS LOL


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## YorksG (1 November 2011)

Then Natz88 you are not of the type that I am amused by  Fif like your comment about nerves though!


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## partbredpacer (3 November 2011)

dressagelove. Sorry, I didn't mean to be sweeping and whatnot, very well said is all I can say!  Everyone is different and so long as the horse is well cared for and things then that is all that matters!


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## NinjaPony (3 November 2011)

I am one of those people who find hacking quite daunting- but compete in showing and dressage. So I would never ever look down on happy hackers- I am a stressed hacker!
Hopefully with my new pony, who loves hacking, I can enjoy it more!
I do like competing, my pony is a successful showing pony, and we are going to compete at county level showing, and dressage- but lower key. 
I have discoverd a love of showing, but its not the be all and end all. I like schooling, improving, having lessons and enjoying my pony 
I don't care if people just hack- great, enjoy your pony  Afterall thats the name of the game!


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## partbredpacer (3 November 2011)

Keimanp said:



			In any topic Sweeping Statements are always made, it is inevitable. That does not mean to say they're aren't exceptions to the rule/statement.

I would say that you are more likely to find Warmbloods competing at a 'higher' level than you would a traditional 'cob'

I would also say that you are more likely to find a traditional 'cob' as the trusty steed of a 'Happy Hacker' rather than a Warmblood.

I would suggest that Warmbloods are more 'sensitive' to injury than a traditional 'cob'

I would say that 'Competitive' riders strive harder for improvement of thier riding than the 'Happy Hacker'

I would say that the 'Happy Hacker' has more bad habits when compared to the *textbook* way of riding than the 'Competitive' rider.

I would suggest there are more traditional 'cobs' and 'Happy Hacker's' than there are 'Competitive' Riders.

Neither riding style is better, the 'Competitive' rider will feel out of depth in a 'Happy Hacker' environment when compared to the Happy Hacker in his/her world. Similarly if the 'Happy Hacker' was dropped in a 'Competitive' riders field of choice they would feel more out of depth than the 'Competitive' rider. As would both horses if their roles were reversed.

There are times when the generalisations don't fit, and that is a good thing, they shouldn't. It means we have a wide demographic of riders in a wide choice of disciplines all able to help their peers improve and with that the improvement of the care of horses which brings pretty much everyone of us to this forum.

I am proud to both hack and compete and feel I can learn a lot from both those who compete and train and never hack to those who would never dream of spending the week in the school when there are so many lanes to explore with their best friend.

It is important to be able to realise the strengths and weaknesses in our own riding and that of others, to help us all improve.
		
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the truest statement on this whole thread. congratulations. I'm genuinely surprised how many hits my thread has got...


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