# Maximum amount of hard feed to give in one feed?



## Puppy (24 November 2009)

I always feed ab lib forage, and as minimal amount of hard feed as possible, to maintain condition, but I am often surprised with how much concentrates some people feed, especially in one go. I wonder if I am being over cautious about this. 

Out of interest, is there a guide about how much hard feed you can feed in one go - say a % of body weight/general guideline for the horse's height? 

I can't find anything this specific on any of the feeding websites that I've looked at. 

Thanks in advance


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## Chico Mio (24 November 2009)

I KNOW I saw a site which recommended that no more than 1.5kg of hard feed should be fed at any one time - so that's about 3.5 llbs I think.

I will try and find it but I need to get my head round what I was looking for when I found it!

ETS I found this one which says up to 5lbs in one meal - see Frequency of Feeding

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/horse/as953w.htm


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## Pony_Puzz (24 November 2009)

According to what I've been taught its.. 

Light work = 15%/20% conentrates and 85/80% forage
Medium = 25% concentrates 75% forage
Hard work = 30/35% concentrates 70/65% forage..

This is worked out as 2.5% of a horses body weight.. so then you split the kg's of feed into these percentages 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 So I suppose up to those percentages/kg's in one feed or split over a day
Hope this helps!


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## Cazza525 (24 November 2009)

Overall it should be 2.5% of horses weight including forage......daily intake. A lot of peaople overfeed concentrates and wonder why they have over fizzed horses prone to azoturia and filled legs. Weight tape your horse and feed accordingly...ie. if too fat then cut percentage down to 2% overall intake.
The BHS manual has loads of formula to work on. I did my stage 3 last year and i still have to check up now periodically....!


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## lilym (24 November 2009)

I once went to a showing yard where they produce in-hand welsh - these ponies are fed concentrates AD-LIB!!! and they were youngsters - the worst one was a pony that was literally knucking over at the knee due to being so bluddy overtopped - another I heard had died of colic - WTF for???? a bluddy red rossette.


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## toomanyhorses26 (24 November 2009)

http://217.169.63.171/bocmpauls/hickstead/page.jhtml?page_id=2300007 don't know if this chart is any help - it the one we use to make up our feeds


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## Chico Mio (24 November 2009)

I feed 2 - 2.5%.  Split 25% feed  75%forage.

I thought Puppy was asking how much could safely be given in one meal, as well as how much the horse should get fed in total.

EG if the horse needs 4kg of feed a day are three smaller meals better than two bigger ones?


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
According to what I've been taught its.. 

Light work = 15%/20% conentrates and 85/80% forage
Medium = 25% concentrates 75% forage
Hard work = 30/35% concentrates 70/65% forage..

This is worked out as 2.5% of a horses body weight.. so then you split the kg's of feed into these percentages 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 So I suppose up to those percentages/kg's in one feed or split over a day
Hope this helps! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know about those sort of rules, but as I stated in the title, I am thinking about the amount you can feed at once. ie, when should it be 2 feeds, or 3


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Overall it should be 2.5% of horses weight including forage......daily intake. A lot of peaople overfeed concentrates and wonder why they have over fizzed horses prone to azoturia and filled legs. Weight tape your horse and feed accordingly...ie. if too fat then cut percentage down to 2% overall intake.
The BHS manual has loads of formula to work on. I did my stage 3 last year and i still have to check up now periodically....! 

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes, sorry maybe my OP wasn't clear enough. I know that you should generally feed 2.5% of bodyweight per day to maintain condition (and the percentage of that being forage and hard feed is dependent on work etc). 

However, my question was, (as per the title) how much hard feed in one meal is sensible?


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I KNOW I saw a site which recommended that no more than 1.5kg of hard feed should be fed at any one time - so that's about 3.5 llbs I think. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





So therefore, no more than one generous scoop (stubbs size) of mix per feed, and therefore not as much as one (stubbs) scoop of cubes. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





If anyone else has similar links, then I'd love to see them - cheers


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## Pony_Puzz (24 November 2009)

I'd say for the kg's probably 2 - 3 then but it depends on your horse? if say its 16hh then 13kgs a day.. and its in medium work so 3.25kg of concentrates.. well if a scoop is 1kg as a rough estimate you'll want 3 feeds, but don't forget that excludes your chaff 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I just worked that all out


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I once went to a showing yard where they produce in-hand welsh - these ponies are fed concentrates AD-LIB!!! and they were youngsters - the worst one was a pony that was literally knucking over at the knee due to being so bluddy overtopped - another I heard had died of colic - WTF for???? a bluddy red rossette. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, well this was in my mind. I did work experience at a stud once that would feed about 5/6kg of undamped stud nuts each night...


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
http://217.169.63.171/bocmpauls/hickstead/page.jhtml?page_id=2300007 don't know if this chart is any help - it the one we use to make up our feeds 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. A helpful chart, but nothing I don't know, and not really what I was asking for. 

I was asking the safe and sensible amount to feed hard feed at in one meal.


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## Chico Mio (24 November 2009)

Here's another one - from Australia where forage can be in sort supply

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/DPI/nreninf.ns..._for_Horses.pdf


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I thought Puppy was asking how much could safely be given in one meal,  

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed I was 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I'm glad someone understood my post


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## Chico Mio (24 November 2009)

Partial quote:

In addition to being perfectly suited to extracting maximum
nutritional value from grasses, a horse's digestive system has other
requirements which are often ignored by owners. The relatively small
size of the stomach limits the amount of feed that can be safely
consumed at one time. A horse is unable to vomit or belch. Eating a
large volume of hay and grain concentrate twice a day, as most horses
do, can be unhealthy and even dangerous. A horse should eat small
amounts, many times a day.

from http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/articles/lamb_feedinghorses.html


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say for the kg's probably 2 - 3 then but it depends on your horse? if say its 16hh then 13kgs a day.. and its in medium work so 3.25kg of concentrates.. well if a scoop is 1kg as a rough estimate you'll want 3 feeds, but don't forget that excludes your chaff 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I just worked that all out 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling that you are missing the point of my post


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## Chico Mio (24 November 2009)

Finally found this one!!!!

http://www.equiworld.net/uk/horsecare/feeding/index.htm

Good feeding practices are also important.

· Feed Little and Often  A horses stomach is small and is not designed to cope with large meals, especially cereals. Feed a maximum of 2kg (4lbs) of cereals, coarse mixes or cubes in each meal


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## Pony_Puzz (24 November 2009)

I know what the point is.. and I just explained: if the max you can feed is 1.5kg then feed it 2-3 feeds since you only need for example 3.25kg's

Its not hard to half it is it?


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## Chico Mio (24 November 2009)

I'll stop now shall I??


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

Thank you ChicoMio, I thought that I was talking in Greek for some time there!


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## Coffee_Bean (24 November 2009)

This is a question that always confuses me. 

Is chaff classed as concentrates or forage? 

What about sugarbeet? If you feed 2kg wet then it's not that much and mostly water, but obviously 2kg dry then soaked would be a huge volume. 
So is it about volume not mass?

My girl has 1/2 a scoop nuts, 1/2 scoop sugarbeet (already soaked not dry weight soaked if that makes sense!), and 2/3 scoop chaff roughly. Twice a day. Too much?

And then there is a horse at the yard who has about 8 scoops of chaff (simple systems stuff) with some SB and a few soaked nuts mixed in... how does that work with the whole concentrate limit shebang?!


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

LOL! I really don't think that you were getting the point of my post, 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 but thanks for trying


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

Oh now don't go confusing things 
	
	
		
		
	


	









For the sake of clarity, I am talking hard feed without chaff or sugar beet as good forage is ab lib


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## JenHunt (24 November 2009)

my understanding is that the horse's stomach is only the size of a rugby ball and shouldn't ever be more than 3/4 full without risking colic.... this leaves you at about 1.5kg to 2kg concentrates in one go.

If you stretch it out with fibre the horse eats considerably slower allowing you to feed slightly more as the horse's stomach actually does what it does quite quickly before the contents pass into the rest of the gut- but you shouldn't increase it to more than 2.5kg really.

does that help?


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## lucemoose (24 November 2009)

I just always think that more that 1 'stubbs' scoop of short feed per bucket and you should start splitting it. Just my two penneth!


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
my understanding is that the horse's stomach is only the size of a rugby ball and shouldn't ever be more than 3/4 full without risking colic.... this leaves you at about 1.5kg to 2kg concentrates in one go.

If you stretch it out with fibre the horse eats considerably slower allowing you to feed slightly more as the horse's stomach actually does what it does quite quickly before the contents pass into the rest of the gut- but you shouldn't increase it to more than 2.5kg really.

does that help? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, thank you, it does 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Have you a link that you got this info from, by any chance? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Thanks


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## Puppy (24 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I just always think that more that 1 'stubbs' scoop of short feed per bucket and you should start splitting it. Just my two penneth! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know exactly where you're coming from, 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Hence, 1 stubbs scoop of volume, could be (roughly) of mix (1.3-1.5kg), or cubes (1.9kg- 2.2kg) and is very variable, and hence I was wondering about when people say "my horse has a scoop or + of such-and-such" it is quite different, and relevant, as to whether is is straights/mix/cubes, etc


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## _April_ (24 November 2009)

I just scanned through quickly and saw that jenhunt has already mentioned my highly scientific method 
	
	
		
		
	


	




...   

'no bigger than a rugby ball'  per hard feed 

Although it is backed up by fact 
	
	
		
		
	


	





http://www.herefordequestrian.co.uk/article_feeding_rules.pdf


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## marmalade76 (25 November 2009)

I was taught that you should not feed more than 4lb of concentrate in one meal, chaff does not count, it is forage, and with sugar beet, its the dry weight that counts. A stubbs scoop (level) holds about 4lb of cubes and about 3lb of mix.


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## *hic* (25 November 2009)

Stomach is roughly the size of a rugby ball, so feed needs to be fed by volume and weight. Weigh to make sure that the correct amount of hard feed is given and then split into just-less-than-rugby-ball-sized meals more frequently through the day if necessary.


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## TheMule (25 November 2009)

Today I am dissecting a horse's stomach- I shall measure the contents of it when it's full and get back to you with an approximate volume.


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## Pedantic (25 November 2009)

But what about the weigtht of the rugby ball, if I scrunch up and compress Happy Hoof I could probably get 4 large scoops in


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## Pebble101 (25 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I was taught that you should not feed more than 4lb of concentrate in one meal, chaff does not count, it is forage, and with sugar beet, its the dry weight that counts. A stubbs scoop (level) holds about 4lb of cubes and about 3lb of mix. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this - no links I'm afraid but a vet told me.


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## kellyeaton (25 November 2009)

2kg is the max per meal!


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## jnb (25 November 2009)

I attended a talk by Top Spec, and Nicola said, no more than half a standard black (water type) bucket, per feed including chaffs - otherwise you are wasting the feed (it will start being pushed out of the stomach undigested) and also you risk colic.


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## ester (25 November 2009)

^^ that makes more sense,  

rather than not including the chaff, If you are feeding a big bowl of chaff and small amount of concentrate it is going to all end up in the stomach at the same time anyway. Taking up space!!


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## burtie (25 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I just always think that more that 1 'stubbs' scoop of short feed per bucket and you should start splitting it. Just my two penneth! 


[/ QUOTE ] 

That's the rule I use too, although you need to use common sense with size of horse and type of feed i.e course mix is not as dense as nuts or straights etc.

However I have yet to feed anything close to that amount for any horse, my 16.2hh warmblood gets by on 0.5kg of grass nuts a day spilt between 2 feeds!


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## hotdog (25 November 2009)

does it not depend on the size of the horse as to the acceptable amount to feed it? ie you'll be able to give a 17.2h more in one feed than you would say a 14.2h?


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## milomoo (25 November 2009)

I always say that if the concentrate potion of the feed would'nt fit inside of a rugby/football then there is too much in the feed. Especially as most horses will drink after eating, too much food just increases the risk of food being flushed out of the stomach too soon and fermenting in the wrong part of the gut causing colic.
As we are all told as beginners - feed little and often.


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## CBAnglo (25 November 2009)

I also work on the rugby ball rule, but include all the feed i.e. chaff, nuts, speedibeet by volume.  That is the maximum I would feed in one meal.

However, in determining how much I would feed in a day (i.e. weight), that depends on the feed and the work the horse was doing/weight etc.


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## JenHunt (25 November 2009)

it's from my degree course and from PC stable management, and then from the feed reps when I was working at a feed merchants.

Baileys do a good description  Here


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