# Eventing team for WEG announced.



## TheOldTrout (14 August 2018)

http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/news/item.aspx?id=7776


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## only_me (14 August 2018)

I can&#8217;t believe that they have left oli off the team. He&#8217;s the world no.1 and has had brilliant results this year on 3 different horses. 
Feels like a massive snub and insult from BE imo.


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## teapot (14 August 2018)

only_me said:



			I can&#8217;t believe that they have left oli off the team. He&#8217;s the world no.1 and has had brilliant results this year on 3 different horses. 
Feels like a massive snub and insult from BE imo.
		
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It's not BE, it's the BEF selectors. Ollie's past form in team comps isn't the best though.


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## splashgirl45 (14 August 2018)

could it have something to do with his behaviour regarding cross country riding and the whip?  it may teach him that no matter what the prize  there is no excuse for horse abuse...,


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## only_me (14 August 2018)

teapot said:



			It's not BE, it's the BEF selectors. Ollie's past form in team comps isn't the best though.
		
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Ok, BEF have snubbed him. 
No one can even improve their form in team comps if they aren&#8217;t in that team - he produced the results this year and has reliable form individually


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## Apercrumbie (14 August 2018)

Bonkers, just bonkers.


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## caladria (14 August 2018)

teapot said:



			It's not BE, it's the BEF selectors. Ollie's past form in team comps isn't the best though.
		
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Well, that was equally true last year and it didn't stop them then... and the horse they selected him with last year on the basis of top tens at CIC*** has a second at Badminton now, despite the two run outs at Strzegom.

If it was behaviour related I'd almost prefer it if the selectors came out and said it, to remind future potential riders what's expected of them.

But as it stands, there's three British riders who have podiums at 4* this year, and only one of them makes the team. (or 3 of the 5 with top ten placings at 4*). So if it is behaviour related, it's not obvious that it is. Especially because he was longlisted - I mean, if you're going to punish someone by not taking them, you don't waste longlist space on them!

If Quarrycrest Echo wasn't on the team, I'd wonder if they were only taking horses with multiple good runnings at 4* (Ballaghmor Class is the only multiple 4* runner of OT's longlisted and he fell XC at Aachen)... but Quarrycrest Echo only has one 4*.


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## claracanter (14 August 2018)

This is also being discussed at length in the Competing and Training Forum
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?766107-WEG-Eventing-Team-Selected-Thoughts


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## teapot (15 August 2018)

The selection policy is well worth a read too http://www.equestrianteamgbr.co.uk/media/2634/senior-selection-policy-final-june-2018.pdf


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## teapot (15 August 2018)

caladria said:



			If it was behaviour related I'd almost prefer it if the selectors came out and said it, to remind future potential riders what's expected of them.

.
		
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This is one of the selection criteria 'Demonstration of  behaviour that indicates a commitment to a positive team environment  both on and off the field of play'.


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## TheOldTrout (15 August 2018)

There seems to be more discussion of who's not on the team than who's on it!! I'm not surprised about Ros Canter - she's been on consistent good form for a couple of years. Tina's form hasn't been great this season but she's got good pedigree at this level and more experience than the others.


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## popsdosh (16 August 2018)

only_me said:



			Ok, BEF have snubbed him. 
No one can even improve their form in team comps if they aren&#8217;t in that team - he produced the results this year and has reliable form individually
		
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It could be more to do with those within the selectors and previous! To be fair im sure Ollie would be first to admit hes not a team player and im sure wont be giving it a second thought.

On a more positive note it is nice to see a more balanced selection than those previously based on name alone. Im sure she wont thank me but Tina will make a great Nanny!


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## Amymay (18 August 2018)

I'm glad. Hopefully he'll learn a little humility and restraint.


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## Fred66 (20 August 2018)

Personally I think this is too important to play games with, the team need to finish top 7 to qualify for the olympics and if they don't the whole sport will lose funding.

If he isn't perceived to be a team player then give him the individual place.

11.1 of the selection criteria states that except in exceptional circumstances then this section will outweigh any other criteria


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## popsdosh (27 August 2018)

Thats the team managers problem if they lose funding so be it  there is' no I inTEAM'


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## Chianti (27 August 2018)

Perhaps the selectors were worried that he'd have to 'win ugly'.


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## spottybotty (18 September 2018)

It seems the team didnt need Oli to win Gold. Well done to all of them especially Rosalin Canter on double gold.


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## TGM (18 September 2018)

I think it is clear that the selectors did indeed know what they were doing!  What great performances from all the GB riders, but particularly Ros Canter who did so well to to keep her cool and ride so well in that final showjumping round with so much pressure on her.


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## ycbm (18 September 2018)

Fred66 said:



			Personally I think this is too important to play games with, the team need to finish top 7 to qualify for the olympics and if they don't the whole sport will lose funding.
		
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No problem there then 

I hope this is a wake up call for Townend and the end of warnings for abuse of his horses on course. Clearly, it's not necessary in order to win.


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## Velcrobum (18 September 2018)

Fred66 said:



			Personally I think this is too important to play games with, the team need to finish top 7 to qualify for the olympics and if they don't the whole sport will lose funding.

If he isn't perceived to be a team player then give him the individual place.

11.1 of the selection criteria states that except in exceptional circumstances then this section will outweigh any other criteria
		
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I think the reason he was not given the individual place was they wanted the experience of Tina to support the younger "team inexperienced" riders.


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## Rowreach (18 September 2018)

I think it shows there is a great depth of talent for the selectors to choose from, which is an excellent position to be in two years away from an Olympics.

I'm personally delighted for the Irish silver though.


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## ginatina (19 September 2018)

They didn't need Olly did they...


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## CoachinaCar (20 September 2018)

I am not sure it is a case of whether or not they needed Olly, for me it is more a case of should selection to a team be based on results or should it be selectors gut feeling as to who should be selected.

I have not seen Eventing selection policy but I presume it must be worded in a way that allowed them to leave out one of Britains most successful riders.

I am not an Olly fan after Badminton but I am not comfortable that it is right to be able to ignore rider results in selection.


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## lannerch (20 September 2018)

And no they didnt need olly for the gold but he would have been nice to have the silver as well as the gold in the individual. ( was happy for Padraig though ).
And if the Germans had gone as well as predicted we may well have needed him in the team as well.


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## conniegirl (21 September 2018)

CoachinaCar said:



			I am not sure it is a case of whether or not they needed Olly, for me it is more a case of should selection to a team be based on results or should it be selectors gut feeling as to who should be selected.

I have not seen Eventing selection policy but I presume it must be worded in a way that allowed them to leave out one of Britains most successful riders.

I am not an Olly fan after Badminton but I am not comfortable that it is right to be able to ignore rider results in selection.
		
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In all likelihood there will be a clause in the policy about behavior and bringing the team into disrepute, warnings and yellow cards are likely to be taken into account as well.

I actually think that selectors should be able to pick who they think will work best for the team not just purely based on results.

Also the team does not need the bad PR that Olly has the major potential of inviting, his lack of selection may be the wake up call he needs, though i doubt it.


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## Wishful (21 September 2018)

I guess some of the selection was based on the selected horses being much more thoroughbred type so more likely to cope with potentially soft ground in high humidity- none of Ollie's top horses look the type to make the time without pressure- looking at Burghley the selectors were making the choice of specific horses for likely conditions rather than the highest ranked rider - after the issues we've had in the past with the "best" horse being wrong for the target event (Primmores Pride at Athens...) this strikes me as a reasonable approach.

Harry Meade made a good case for future teams with the massive improvement in his horse's stamina shown at Burghley...


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## CoachinaCar (21 September 2018)

Thank you Connie girl and wishful that all makes good sense.


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## tristar (21 September 2018)

the winners were best in the competition, the fact the germans did not win says they were not the best, its a competition not a prediction.

to suggest he may have won  individual silver, is fantasy, its in the past, its his own fault he was not there, no one made him hit the horses, the winners made the choice to not get yellow cards by controlling their attitude and horsemanship and got selected, sportsmanship,but more than that, love of horses, consideration that they are feeling beings that can vary and are not machines.

how would it have looked if he lost his rag at weg?, and made fools out of the selectors and shamed his country.


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## lannerch (21 September 2018)

tristar said:



			the winners were best in the competition, the fact the germans did not win says they were not the best, its a competition not a prediction.

to suggest he may have won  individual silver, is fantasy, its in the past, its his own fault he was not there, no one made him hit the horses, the winners made the choice to not get yellow cards by controlling their attitude and horsemanship and got selected, sportsmanship,but more than that, love of horses, consideration that they are feeling beings that can vary and are not machines.

how would it have looked if he lost his rag at weg?, and made fools out of the selectors and shamed his country.
		
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When did Ollie get a yellow card, did I miss it? I do not agree with your post at all , horses do not repeatedly perform as well as oldies horses do by being treated as machines. 

The Germans did not win as predicted as they were not the best on the day, and maybe the support behind the team is not as effective as it used to be . 
I do think the world no 1 should have been there and I think all 3 of his rides round burghley proved that point. 
I do agree though that until then there was a question mark after badminton on the stamina of his horses and maybe this is the base of the decision . Although I think particularly BC has now more than proved he had for future selection. 

That said I loved every minute of the WEG and am so proud of the team. Its great that after a long period of just mainly wfp getting the results for this  country we have now such a strength in depth which will only get stronger.

The future is exciting bring on the Olympics !


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## tristar (22 September 2018)

where did i say OT got a card?   i did not!

i don`t agree with your opinion all, but you are entitled to it, as you are so defensive would i be right in assuming you think it is right to hit horses when they are apparently doing their best?


horses are flesh and blood, but more than that they are living creatures with minds and yes, feelings, moods, tendencies, and more importantly inherited traits that show in the way they perform and how they cope under stress, part of being a great horseman is understanding this and having the ability to counteract difficulties without resorting to taking it out on the horse, whether in  a horses deficient performance or when the horse is tiring on the cross country course


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## lannerch (22 September 2018)

tristar said:



			where did i say OT got a card?   i did not!


i don`t agree with your opinion all, but you are entitled to it, as you are so defensive would i be right in assuming you think it is right to hit horses when they are apparently doing their best?


horses are flesh and blood, but more than that they are living creatures with minds and yes, feelings, moods, tendencies, and more importantly inherited traits that show in the way they perform and how they cope under stress, part of being a great horseman is understanding this and having the ability to counteract difficulties without resorting to taking it out on the horse, whether in  a horses deficient performance or when the horse is tiring on the cross country course
		
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The winners choose not to get yellow cards certainly trys to infer OT did!

Apart from that your answer does not deserve a reply and nor will get one.


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## tristar (22 September 2018)

maybe there is no answer available to you,?   certainly  not one involving  justifying the unjustifiable


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## popsdosh (24 September 2018)

tristar said:



			maybe there is no answer available to you,?   certainly  not one involving  justifying the unjustifiable
		
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You are creating a very high pedestal for you to fall from. At the end of the day talent shows through and separates the top riders from the weekend riders . There is a system in place and it cautioned him yet you cant accept that ,I think that makes it your problem unless you are good enough to make up the GJ


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## tristar (24 September 2018)

i think that some of the best trainers riders i know don`t compete, i truly believe that competition is not necessarily the ultimate or only definition of `the best riders`

i sincerely believe that many `weekend riders`are very good riders indeed and its not fair to use their status  as a put down or infer they in inferior, unless you put yourself on a pedestal.


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## lannerch (25 September 2018)

popsdosh said:



			You are creating a very high pedestal for you to fall from. At the end of the day talent shows through and separates the top riders from the weekend riders . There is a system in place and it cautioned him yet you cant accept that ,I think that makes it your problem unless you are good enough to make up the GJ
		
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Exactly poshdosh results speak louder than words and results week in week out cannot be obtained by terrorising your horses, they are only obtained by a harmonious relashionship. Who is world no 1 again?


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## ycbm (25 September 2018)

lannerch said:



			Exactly poshdosh results speak louder than words and results week in week out cannot be obtained by terrorising your horses, they are only obtained by a harmonious relashionship

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What fairy dairy land do you live in?  Horses are very compliant creatures and are all around the world working through various amounts of pain because they are told to. Rollkur was/is a highly successful training method. Top showjumpers use all kinds of gadgets and get caught for it. In the eighties I stabled with a foreign eventing Olympic team member who beat his horse until it bled during one training session. The ten or so top riders I've met have been driven characters, hard as nails and mostly totally unsentimental about their horses.


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## ycbm (25 September 2018)

tristar said:



			i think that some of the best trainers riders i know don`t compete, i truly believe that competition is not necessarily the ultimate or only definition of `the best riders`
		
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Completely agree.


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## lannerch (26 September 2018)

ycbm said:



			What fairy dairy land do you live in?  Horses are very compliant creatures and are all around the world working through various amounts of pain because they are told to. Rollkur was/is a highly successful training method. Top showjumpers use all kinds of gadgets and get caught for it. In the eighties I stabled with a foreign eventing Olympic team member who beat his horse until it bled during one training session. The ten or so top riders I've met have been driven characters, hard as nails and mostly totally unsentimental about their horses.
		
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The real fairy dairy life ! you will get the odd exceptional horse who does comply but as a rule when a horse says no it says no. You may get some sort of result by force but you will never get the results day in day out to make your way to world no 1. That is only achieved by having a true partnership with your horses. You may not be sentimental but you still have to ride with balance and feeling, and work with the horse not force! 
Force gets short term results the results never last. A short term fix.

Just go and watch a local ode, or even fun ride and you will see dozens of examples of how non compliant horses ( infact the majority of horses at the last one I witnesssd ) can be when faced with force ,


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## ycbm (26 September 2018)

Riding with balance and feeling is skilled riding. Nobody disputes that Townend is an exceptionally skilled rider. Neither is anyone saying that you can use force to reach the top. But it clearly doesn't prevent action now defined as abuse, which is why he and others in all disciplines are getting warnings and cards.  And success does not mean that they are kind to their horses or that they have a partnership with them on any emotional level.  

Can you not see that? Or do you genuinely think a rider with a partnership hits a horse to get it around a three star when it has been running out in the collecting ring?

I think most of us think that at three star, if your horse is running out in the collecting ring, you should take it home and find out why, not hit it round a course of that size, no matter what result you achieve at the end.

Your comment about local events is irrelevant. Top riders can get results out of horses  which lesser riders can't. Including convincing them to work through pain. This forum is littered with examples of horses sent to pros for remedial training of 'behavioural' problems, returned to the owner 'fixed' only to go wrong again and later get a diagnosis of ulcers, PSD, kissing spines or bilateral lameness.


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## lannerch (26 September 2018)

ycbm said:



			Riding with balance and feeling is skilled riding. Nobody disputes that Townend is an exceptionally skilled rider. Neither is anyone saying that you can use force to reach the top. But it clearly doesn't prevent action now defined as abuse, which is why he and others in all disciplines are getting warnings and cards.  And success does not mean that they are kind to their horses or that they have a partnership with them on any emotional level.  

Can you not see that? Or do you genuinely think a rider with a partnership hits a horse to get it around a three star when it has been running out in the collecting ring?

I think most of us think that at three star, if your horse is running out in the collecting ring, you should take it home and find out why, not hit it round a course of that size, no matter what result you achieve at the end.

Your comment about local events is irrelevant. Top riders can get results out of horses  which lesser riders can't. Including convincing them to work through pain. This forum is littered with examples of horses sent to pros for remedial training of 'behavioural' problems, returned to the owner 'fixed' only to go wrong again and later get a diagnosis of ulcers, PSD, kissing spines or bilateral lameness.
		
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No I cannot see it. I have used my whip at times my horse has needed correcting. Even Carl Heston has been known to use his whip. Sometimes it has its place, which could include a collecting ring in a 3*. And probably was correct in the case your thinking of as the horse went in to win, and had a lovely fluent cc round with no whip needed again. 
( However definitely does not include a tired horse being pushed to hard around badminton. ) 

And not every horse that refuses has physical issues, thats ridiculous to suggest. Sometimes its purely the way its been ridden ie very badly!


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## ycbm (26 September 2018)

lannerch said:



			And not every horse that refuses has physical issues, thats ridiculous to suggest. Sometimes its purely the way its been ridden ie very badly!
		
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Which would be exactly why I did not say it. 

Going back to these wonderful partnerships that you say as Twitter to win at to level, have you forgotten, or are you too young to remember, when horses were selected for the Olympics and given to a more skilled rider for the one competition?

Or Mark Todd winning Badminton on Horton Point as a scratch ride?

You write as if winning is all that matters. It won, so it must have been OK. I don't agree.


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## lannerch (26 September 2018)

ycbm said:



			Which would be exactly why I did not say it. 

Going back to these wonderful partnerships that you say as Twitter to win at to level, have you forgotten, or are you too young to remember, when horses were selected for the Olympics and given to a more skilled rider for the one competition?
Or Mark Todd winning Badminton on Horton Point as a scratch ride?

You write as if winning is all that matters. It won, so it must have been OK. I don't agree.
		
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I wish I was that young lol , and if winning was all that mattered I would have given up years ago .  
I do still event but I have never won, not come close for the last few years, and not because I beat my horse round or ride particularly badly but more because I have inherent sat nav problems if I remember the dressage test I lose my way on the sj or more usually the cross country. So no winning is not important.

I may have to give up as my horse has just been found to have navicular ( and no he showed no behaviour changes just went slightly footy )  but that is a different story.


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## tristar (26 September 2018)

sorry to hear your horse has navicular syndrome, but we are so lucky to have hh forum, who support and share experiences to help other people.

we know that horses stop because of pain or bad riding, also its the horse`s responsibility to stop when finding itself wrong at a jump, a self preservation action

maybe now we  can also say its entitled to stop if  its rider is  trying to `win ugly`

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