# Strangles carrier?



## Wazerati (17 February 2011)

Just found out today that my horse needs to be 'scoped to see if he has any chrondroids (pus) in his gutteral pouches. He failed the strangles blood test!In the 10 years that I have owned him he has never showed signs of strangles so vet has postulated that this problem predates this.  My horse was scoped 7 years ago and pus/chondroids were not mentioned then.  Does this mean that I could be lucky and horse will not be a carrier!? Any ideas anyone please I need some hope!


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## Mike007 (18 February 2011)

Has he shown positive for antibodies in his blood,or positive for a swab test? Why do they want to scope him?


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## Wazerati (18 February 2011)

He has antibodies in his blood.  He needs to be scoped to determine if there are chrondroids (pus nodules) present. This will determine if he is a carrier. This is just a short cut rather than do a gutteral pouch wash and then a scope.  If this is an old problem how come it hasnt showed up in previous scopes.


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## NOISYGIRL (18 February 2011)

I think a horse can carry it but not show any signs of ill health


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## Alec Swan (19 February 2011)

I'm not a vet,  and am unable to speak with authority on the subject of Strangles.  However,  we have a mare who has had Strangles,  but several years ago,  and before we owned her.  Before she went to stud last year,  it was demanded that she be blood tested,  which was done in two parts,  as she tested positive to the first test.

This is just my understanding of the procedure.  As she tested positive to the first test,  if the second test had shown a lesser response,  then she would have been considered "clean".  She didn't,  so a guttural pouch wash was done (it's a relatively simple procedure) and the results were sent away for culture.  Thankfully those tests proved negative,  and she was sent away to stud.

The problem with blood testing,  so I'm told,  is that it is a rather hit and miss affair.  The response to the test itself can almost certainly be affected by a horse which is stressed,  and the results can be wildly inaccurate,  hence the need for a pouch wash and culture.

I would suggest that you pin your vet down,  and have him explain the ins and outs of it.  Those horses which are tested as carriers,  are all so often unable to replicate the disease,  as I'm sure will be explained to you.  

Good luck!

Alec.


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## Mike007 (19 February 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			The problem with blood testing,  so I'm told,  is that it is a rather hit and miss affair.  /QUOTE]

If hit and miss means "wildly inaccurate" ,I am with you all the way Alec. Apparently the test shows a positive with a number of other bacteria. I am also deeply suspicious of how wide the range of strep equi variants is. Modern science now has made it easy to cary out these tests yet I strongly suspect that vets dont understand exactly what they are testing for. We have just had the all clear from a strangles epidemic ,that basicly ,completely failed to happen. Yes , a horse had somthing that ,looked like strangles ,and tested as strangles yet in all other respects completely failed to act like strangles. Thousands of pounds later ,absolutely nothing caught it, a few picked up "somthing", antibody levels were erratic to say the least. 30 years ago ,we would have dismissed it as a bug going round, cleared up easily ,no ill effects.Yet because of this modern faith in diagnostic tests ,,we have spent a small fortune on what was probably an extremely benign variant of strangles,the only effect of which would be to give a certain immunity to the more nasty version.
		
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## Ginger Bear (19 February 2011)

I went through the same thing when I moved yard in the summer & my boy's test came back positive. The antibodies are present when the horse has had the virus, has the virus currently or is fighting the virus. Therefore it could be possible that your horse has fought the illness off recently. Has there been horses on your yard with strangle? If you have always kept your horse with other horses there would be constant outbreaks of strangles on your yard if he was a carrier because a carrier horse sheds the illness & spreads it to other horses without showing symptoms itself.


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## JanetGeorge (21 February 2011)

Ginger Bear said:



			If you have always kept your horse with other horses there would be constant outbreaks of strangles on your yard if he was a carrier because a carrier horse sheds the illness & spreads it to other horses without showing symptoms itself.
		
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Not necessarily so!  A friend who runs a livery/competition yard had a carrier (without knowing it) for more than 5 years with NO strangles.  Then I bought a horse from that yard which had recently been treated with an immuno-suppressant drug which knocked out his immune system.  He and another horse of mine arrived home in the same lorry - the new horse had a runny nose so I isolated the two and next morning he was sick as sick!   Warned the livery yard - two horses who had recently arrived on the yard from Ireland went down with it a week later.  The horse that travelled with the sick horse and was isolated with him didn't get it. No others on the livery yard got it and a long-term carrier was identified.  

Only the Irish horses - and the chap who'd had his immune system knocked out - got it. The rest of the horses on the yard had developed natural immunity through contact with the carrier.


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## Ginger Bear (21 February 2011)

Thanks for the correction JanetGeorge,glad my vet didn't tell me that when my boy was being tested or I would have convinced myself he was a carrier before getting the results back!!


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## NOISYGIRL (21 February 2011)

yeh mine showed positive from bloods he'd had it approx 20 years ago, swab thing was neg.  We had one horse with stranges who we isolated, he was the only one on the yard to get it, we still to this day don't know how he got it, he hadn't been in contact with any strange horses. we had the whole yard blood tested, few swabbed all neg really weird.  He made a full recovery.  His owners bought a new 2nd hand trailer, and I wasn't conviced it wasn't from that, he hadnt' been in it, but hey had and might have transferred it.  Only other explanation was that a vet had been on the yard and had brought it.


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## Andalusianlover (22 February 2011)

About 18 months ago I had my then 8 yr old PRE and my 2 yr old Spanish Norman tested as I was moving yards.  8 yr old was clear as a whistle but the 2 yr olds test came back saying he was just over the AHT limit and would have to be scoped. One scope and 400 quid later the 2 yr old was cleared as not being a strangles carrier.  The 2 yr old had been with me since he was 5 months old and had been with the same horses as the older horse so why one positive and one negative.  The vet said at the time that the 2 yr old must have recently been in contact with the disease, HOW I asked!!!

It was all a bit bizarre really.  The vet did tell me that even if he was a carrier it could be cleared with lots of antibiotics and the odd scope or two (400 quid a shot)!!!!

The thing is since I moved to the yard, a few of the new horses that came in after me tested positive on the blood test but negative on the scope.  Not one of them was scoped positive as a strangles carrier!!   Funny that isnt it.

A bit of a money spinner for for the vets tho!


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## Mike007 (22 February 2011)

in fairness ,I think it is a complete pain for the vets ,rather than a money spinner. Changes of cloths dissinfection ,they need to act on the assumption that it is strangles.I really do not trust the blood test. Yes it will show positive if there is strangles but I strongly suspect that a number of other things can cause a positive result.I have a lot more faith in the swab test and taking a wassh from the gutteral pouches. Incidentaly if your paying £400 for scoping then get some one else . More like £200 including the lab test fee.


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## LadyRascasse (22 February 2011)

my mare had this nasty disease and after she all her clinical signs had gone she turned into a strangles carrier, it involved penicillin injections twice a day and about 3 scopes but the total bill on come just over £800. but she was cleared after what seems like forever and now she leads a perfected happy life and has never passed the disease onto another horse.


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## foxy1 (22 February 2011)

How did you discover your mare had become a carrier LadyRascasse ?


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## LadyRascasse (22 February 2011)

she still tested positive 30 days after all clinical signs had gone, and then on the next one (i think 2 weeks later) she tested positive again. tests were done via guttural wash. because its not a notifiable disease you don't have to test them after signs, its down to the individual if they want to. so i could have potential spread it if we hadn't had her tested. (not that i would have done that but the less "caring", shall we say, can choose not to)


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## bigpond (11 April 2011)

I have just had my two year old colt diagnosed with a guttural pouch infection from a persistent runny nose (one nostril). Two cultures were grown and they were negative for strangles.  He had a tube inserted into the GP to flush it out twice a day for two weeks but he managed to pull out the tube so I took him back but one of the practice vets says that because he had the guttural pouch infection strangles cannot be ruled out even though he has no other symptoms and no other horses have contracted strangles or anything similar since he has been there which is almost one year.
Has anyone else had this experience?


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## foxy1 (12 April 2011)

Yes it's possible he is a carrier and has no symptoms or infected any other horses.

A vet advised me the horse can carry Strangles bacteria in the gutteral pouch for 20 odd years and possibly never shed, but you never know if they might.

A horse I know got treated very aggressively with antibiotics which cleared his gutteral pouch eventually


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## Miss L Toe (12 April 2011)

My horse has had strangles and is on the 30 day waiting period, should I just go for aggressive antibiotic in in order to speed up the process? I feel that the attending vet is giving me advice which suits the purposes of the yard and NOT giving me the best advice for my horse and myself... the yard were negligent, but I have to pay the bill, apparently.


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## foxy1 (13 April 2011)

Has your horse had a gutteral pouch wash? This would show if he is carrying Strangles still.

Other option is 3 nasal swabs. Not sure what your vet means by 30 day waiting period?


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## Miss L Toe (13 April 2011)

My understanding is that the swab test is only 30% accurate .. we had three  horses with symptoms and only the last one tested +ve for strangles equi


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## Miss L Toe (13 April 2011)

The horse has recently had the disease, and is now in quarantine, apparently the vet says that after 30 days carriers are considered long term carriers and have to be treated aggressively with antibiotic.


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## Miss L Toe (13 April 2011)

Mike007 said:



			in fairness ,I think it is a complete pain for the vets ,rather than a money spinner. Changes of cloths dissinfection ,they need to act on the assumption that it is strangles.I really do not trust the blood test. Yes it will show positive if there is strangles but I strongly suspect that a number of other things can cause a positive result.I have a lot more faith in the swab test and taking a wassh from the gutteral pouches. Incidentaly if your paying £400 for scoping then get some one else . More like £200 including the lab test fee.
		
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MIKE, I wish that they did act on the presumption, AND take in to account that most horse owners are pretty naive as to the effects of the disease, we had four horses in the yard with nasal problems, three were tested for strangles, but I was not informed that this was going on, else I could have stopped my horse getting the disease. This yard was negligent,and told me fairy stories when i asked what was wrong with two of the horses.
Oh by the way, the vet who came to drain my abscess dipped her feet in my footbath, but I don't know if she took any other precautions, had it been me, I would have changed my clothes immediately outside my horses stable, and bagged the coverall used. Washed hands and arms, in other words taken the precautions I have been taking every day during nursing.


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## foxy1 (13 April 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			My understanding is that the swab test is only 30% accurate .. we had three  horses with symptoms and only the last one tested +ve for strangles equi
		
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yes that's why they do 3 swabs a week apart.

How will you know if your horse is a carrier after 30 days?


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## Miss L Toe (14 April 2011)

The vet will scope and wash out the gutteral pouch, then the wash will be tested for Streptococcus Equi var equi. If positive then I understand that antibiotics will be placed in to the GP (in a gelatin medium)
As the horse has been put  in a tiny boggy field (which is a nightmare for me and him), i want the process done as quick as possible.


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## taylorm840 (8 February 2016)

can anyone advise on this issue please.

what is the protocol for transporting a horse who is a carrier of the disease, for example if you know your horse to be a carrier but shows non of the symptoms associated with the disease, in my mind the horse should be put into isolation treated for the disease and not transported until the vet gives the all clear

just something i need to educate myself on before i go charging in like a red rag to a bull.


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## Pinkvboots (8 February 2016)

bigpond said:



			I have just had my two year old colt diagnosed with a guttural pouch infection from a persistent runny nose (one nostril). Two cultures were grown and they were negative for strangles.  He had a tube inserted into the GP to flush it out twice a day for two weeks but he managed to pull out the tube so I took him back but one of the practice vets says that because he had the guttural pouch infection strangles cannot be ruled out even though he has no other symptoms and no other horses have contracted strangles or anything similar since he has been there which is almost one year.
Has anyone else had this experience?
		
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I had a similar thing happen to one of my horses he also had an infection, the wash did not clear his though he had almost 100 chondroids in his gutteral pouch and the only way to get them out was one at a time with a special tool on the end of the scope, it took 4 vet visits over 4 weeks to remove them as they only wanted to sedate him for 2 days at a time, they also though he was a carrier but they tested him and grew the cultures and he was negative, vet said he had never seen anything like it in 20 years of being a vet.

so if anyone is concerned about chondroids they don't always come out with a wash so I think it's always worth scoping to make sure, they think my horses chondroids were missed in the first scope as there were so many and if left they can attach to blood vessels and rupture and it can be fatal.


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