# New hat standards   ARGHH



## soulfull (16 December 2014)

While I would love them to totally phase out the EN 1384 and start with an entry level ASTM/PAS equivilant.  they wont because 99.99% of vented hats are only EN1384


http://www.beta-uk.org/pages/news-amp-events/news/european-riding-helmet-standard-withdrawn.php



Someone please tell me I am wrong

but the way I read it is that it is highly likely ALL hats on sale right now will need to be replaced by 2016

Why? Because they are now compulsorily adding the CE mark Which is different to the Kitemark (some carry both)

'In future, CE-marked riding hats will have to be successfully tested and certified against an alternative specification to allow CE certification to continue. Companies can choose which they use and could include the new VG1 specification, the revised EN 1384 once published and PAS 015. Riding hats cannot be CE-marked solely to Snell, ASTM F1163 or AS/NZ 3838: 2006 without additional testing'


So CE will be the latest thing they all insist on (like they did kitemark) and it reads to me that current CE certificates are not going to be accepted without further testing, so it will become something like CE 2016


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## bounce (16 December 2014)

I don't think All hats on sale are now affected, just the ones that only carry EN 1384.

Makes me very pleased that I chose the RXC1 which also has PAS015 and SNELL E2001 rather than purchasing a Uvex which felt very comfy but only has EN 1384.


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## soulfull (16 December 2014)

bounce said:



			I don't think All hats on sale are now affected, just the ones that only carry EN 1384.

Makes me very pleased that I chose the RXC1 which also has PAS015 and SNELL E2001 rather than purchasing a Uvex which felt very comfy but only has EN 1384.
		
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yeah I to have Snell  BUT they are also saying that hats currently tested to Snell astm etc cannot use this test to get a CE mark,  well PC and RC already insist on kitemark surely they will want the new CE mark too?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (16 December 2014)

bounce said:



			Makes me very pleased that I chose the RXC1 which also has PAS015 and SNELL E2001 rather than purchasing a Uvex which felt very comfy but only has EN 1384.
		
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me too - love mine - its really comfy


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## bounce (16 December 2014)

The CE mark is not a standard, it just shows compliance.  All personal protective equipment must have a CE mark already as far as I'm aware so I can't see that it will make any hat obsolete, but I could be wrong.

Link here to all standards etc which might help.  http://www.beta-uk.org/media/safety/download/Riders - safety - hat standards.pdf


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## soulfull (16 December 2014)

I found the answer on the Q>A's

 ''My hat has two standards on the label, one of which is 1384. Is this ok to use for competitions? 
Yes, provided that the other standard is approved by your riding organisation. If the hat has 1384 plus PAS015 then it will not be affected by this change.  If it has any of the other existing standards such as Snell or ASTM F1163 then this is fine for the moment but since the CE mark may be based on the EN1384 standard these too in time may be affected by rule changes if you replace this hat with the same in the future.''

So I wonder why the PAS015 is ok but not the Snell or ASTM ?


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## ester (16 December 2014)

is it because PAS is a european standard but snell/astm are american?


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## soulfull (16 December 2014)

ester said:



			is it because PAS is a european standard but snell/astm are american?
		
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aha very likely.  annoyingly the Snell is a higher standard than PAS but just because they want to change things it won't be acceptable.  So all those of us that have PROtectors won't be able to wear them in competition.  So it looks like mine will become my schooling hat


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## hannahgeorge (16 December 2014)

I've just taken delivery this morning of a Gatehouse Conquest, which I intended to use in the dressage and sj phases at British Eventing competitions. BE have said that hats conforming to (BS)EN1384 only will not be allowed from 2016. This means I will only use the hat about 12 times next year! I've spoken to Gatehouse who have said that there's a lot of discussion going on in their office (I imagine the same discussion is being had by a lot of the manufacturers). They advised me to email the retailer, who will then get clarification from Gatehouse. I've asked to return the hat for a refund, although I'd rather not have to as I like the hat and have wanted one for ages!


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## ester (16 December 2014)

So as per this http://www.pcuk.org/uploads/dcs/Final_Hat_Rule_2015_for_Website.pdf

I imagine that most organisations will probably still permit snell etc? and that they won't require a CE mark.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (16 December 2014)

from what i have gleaned:

casco,uvex,samshield,LAS are out.

KEP hold PAS015 so are ok...................god i feel for anyone who has bought a new hat recently


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## FellOutOfFavour (16 December 2014)

I bought a new hat 6 months ago, which I think only has the EN1384 kitemark. Well pissed off


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## Scarlett (16 December 2014)

I'm so glad I read this before buying myself and my OH a new hat! I really fancied a Gatehouse Conquest or an UVEX, will hang off for a while and see how it all works out.....


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## ihatework (16 December 2014)

Great timing. Bought a UVEX last week!
That my future home hat then!!


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## Two Fs (16 December 2014)

Rats!! Bought a Samshield earlier this year and looks like I won't be able to do BS in it after 2015. On the plus side it gives me an excuse to use it as my everyday hat, it's incredibly comfortable.


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## only_me (16 December 2014)

Is the HSI skull cap still ok?

Am annoyed that the charles owen fiona is not allowed, I love it! Looks like going to have to replace it


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## EquiEquestrian556 (16 December 2014)

Does that mean that I can no longer compete in my Gatehouse HS1 Skull Cap? It's passed SNELL E2001, PAS015 and BSEN1384.


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## Dusty85 (16 December 2014)

I also have a HS1, the gatehouse website says that it conforms to Snell E2001 and BSI kite marks. Doesn't mention anything else, so Im hoping that it will be ok?


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## twobearsarthur (16 December 2014)

That's my new Fiona becoming an expensive at home hat from 2016 &#128545;&#128545;&#128545;


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## EquiEquestrian556 (16 December 2014)

Dusty85 said:



			I also have a HS1, the gatehouse website says that it conforms to Snell E2001 and BSI kite marks. Doesn't mention anything else, so Im hoping that it will be ok?
		
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This is from a while ago: "The only riding helmet in the UK to pass all of these safety standards: SNELL E2001, PAS015 and BSEN1384.

SNELL E2001 is the highest manufacturer equestrian hat safety standard in the world and it includes a unique test that simulates a rider falling into a fence rail, or having a secondary hit by a horse's hoof.

Suitable for competition under FEI, Pony Club and HRA rules."

Really hope it's still allowed!


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## Dusty85 (16 December 2014)

Thanks EquiEquestrian556- mine is a couple of years old now, but that is the exact reason I bought it- because it had the highest standard at the time. 

Whilst I accept its a couple of years old now it will still be a bit frustrating if its not allowed because of a 'technical' issue such as not being allowed because the testing was done in a different country or another equally as stupid reason.


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## humblepie (16 December 2014)

HSI has PAS 2011 so will be fine or at least that is my understanding.


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## Goldenstar (16 December 2014)

I bought a hat yesterday , oh no !!!!!!


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## Dusty85 (16 December 2014)

From the BE website: 

The withdrawal of the standard has no effect on riding hats already on the market. Once a hat has been manufactured to a standard it will not become "non-standard" after withdrawal and can continue to be sold and worn. If riders have hats certified to the EN1384 they can continue to use them unless stated otherwise by rules of competition.


British Eventing will permit (BS)EN1384 hats in 2015 but not thereafter.
All hats will be retagged in 2016 at which stage no hats made solely to (BS)EN1384 will be tagged or permitted for use.


I take this to mean the HS1 will be fine as it complies with other standards, not just the EN1384.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (16 December 2014)

Dusty85 said:



			From the BE website: 

The withdrawal of the standard has no effect on riding hats already on the market. Once a hat has been manufactured to a standard it will not become "non-standard" after withdrawal and can continue to be sold and worn. If riders have hats certified to the EN1384 they can continue to use them unless stated otherwise by rules of competition.
		
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This is from BETA: http://www.beta-uk.org/pages/news-amp-events/news/european-riding-helmet-standard-withdrawn.php


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## Dusty85 (16 December 2014)

Okay, it is additionally on the BE website then...


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## soulfull (16 December 2014)

Dusty85 said:



			From the BE website: 

The withdrawal of the standard has no effect on riding hats already on the market. Once a hat has been manufactured to a standard it will not become "non-standard" after withdrawal and can continue to be sold and worn. If riders have hats certified to the EN1384 they can continue to use them unless stated otherwise by rules of competition.


British Eventing will permit (BS)EN1384 hats in 2015 but not thereafter.
All hats will be retagged in 2016 at which stage no hats made solely to (BS)EN1384 will be tagged or permitted for use.


I take this to mean the HS1 will be fine as it complies with other standards, not just the EN1384.
		
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yes it can BUT once the new ruling comes in it won't be allowed!!  A little misleading

HS1 should be fine as it is also PAS015.


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## Lanky Loll (16 December 2014)

Not happy - bought a new conquest on Friday, took ages to get any hat that would fit me and even this had to have some help


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## FfionWinnie (16 December 2014)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			from what i have gleaned:

casco,uvex,samshield,LAS are out.

KEP hold PAS015 so are ok...................god i feel for anyone who has bought a new hat recently 

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Spent 180 on a uvex last week


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## dieseldog (16 December 2014)

I wonder how many people are going to lose their jobs over this just before xmas.  If I was a hat company I would be stopping production ASAP, how long does it take to design a new hat that will meet the standards, do you think any companies will go bust over this?

I have a Gatehouse Conquest


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## merlinsquest (16 December 2014)

My Protector which is Snell has a CE mark in it, from reading this I think it will be ok for BS.


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## angelish (16 December 2014)

FfionWinnie said:



			Spent 180 on a uvex last week 

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so did i  
i specifically said it needed to meet BE standards , does anyone know when these hat companys would have known this rule change was coming in ?
i bought my hat off a UVEX rep at an open day and i'm not at all happy


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## EquiEquestrian556 (16 December 2014)

angelish said:



			so did i  
i specifically said it needed to meet BE standards , does anyone know when these hat companys would have known this rule change was coming in ?
i bought my hat off a UVEX rep at an open day and i'm not at all happy 

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I think it came in today, so the hat company wouldn't of known.


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## ester (16 December 2014)

There is nothing stopping them getting snell tested hats etc tested under whatever the new CE thing is though?


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## soulfull (16 December 2014)

angelish said:



			so did i  
i specifically said it needed to meet BE standards , does anyone know when these hat companys would have known this rule change was coming in ?
i bought my hat off a UVEX rep at an open day and i'm not at all happy 

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today


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## ester (16 December 2014)

Dusty85 said:



			From the BE website: 

The withdrawal of the standard has no effect on riding hats already on the market. Once a hat has been manufactured to a standard it will not become "non-standard" after withdrawal and can continue to be sold and worn. If riders have hats certified to the EN1384 they can continue to use them unless stated otherwise by rules of competition.

*I think this statement is a bit misleading as the one below clarifies it as only for 2 years, arguably you should change your hat anyway then but*  


British Eventing will permit (BS)EN1384 hats in 2015 but not thereafter.
All hats will be retagged in 2016 at which stage no hats made solely to (BS)EN1384 will be tagged or permitted for use.


I take this to mean the HS1 will be fine as it complies with other standards, not just the EN1384.
		
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...


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## angelish (16 December 2014)

thanks 
will just have to make good use of it next season


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## soulfull (16 December 2014)

ester said:



			There is nothing stopping them getting snell tested hats etc tested under whatever the new CE thing is though?
		
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no but it won't help those who already have one, for the Snell and ASTM  it will be exactly the same hat with a different sticker


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## Flame_ (16 December 2014)

So will there still be very lightweight, highly ventilated hats or will they not meet the new standards? I hate most riding hats.


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## MegaBeast (16 December 2014)

To me it just sounds like the hats will be same, however there will be a new standard.

The identical thing happened in 1997 when BS4472 was withdrawn.  I'd just bought (well, been bought, I was a kid) a Champion Euro which had BS4472 certification.  After the standard change, Champion ran a massive advertising campaign on the back of Your Horse saying they'd been ahead of the market and their Euro jockey skull already complied with the new standard so I went in to John Ayres (luckily live near the makers) and asked to have a new lining which reflected the new standard which they actually did.  I then had a hat, which whilst was pre-1997, because it was a technicality change and the hat did meet the new standard without any modifications it was thus labelled as such so I had no trouble using it.

ETA a lot can happen between now and 2016, I doubt hats will be withdrawn, just tested against a new standard.  Which by the sound of it, will not be that different from the current one so modern hats, especially if they meet non-EU standards will almost certainly comply.  

I guess a lot of us will be schooling at home in posh hats!  But no reason not to assume can't replace like with like.


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## vallin (16 December 2014)

This is really annoying. Now I don't know what hat to buy at Olympia as was planning on getting a UVEX


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## GinaGeo (16 December 2014)

Annoying. I do love my Fiona - it's very comfortable. Have recently bought an HS1 too. Will have to get plenty of use out of them this season!


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## MegaBeast (16 December 2014)

Unless you need a hat urgently I'd hold off for the new standard.  Not least because PAS015 is a pretty old standard now and could well be superceded in not too distant a future once the new EN standard is on the market.  I'd be wanting to future proof any non-essential purchase as far as possible.  If essential, then buy one with PAS015 and you'll be fine for at least the next two years if not significantly longer.


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## chestnut cob (16 December 2014)

I bought a Champion Euro Deluxe (the skull cap one with velvet harness/ chin strap etc) this year.  It meets the current BS standard and was tagged by BE, but I guess this means I can't use it in 2016...  annoying since I tried on pretty much every make and model of hat,  and this was the only one that fit me!!


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## Vodkagirly (16 December 2014)

Surely the hat companies must of known about this in advance? 

I think I have a caldene prestige for Christmas. It apparently is bsi kitemark does that make a difference?


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## georgiegirl (16 December 2014)

From my understanding of British riding club rules uvex will still be ok as they are ASTM standard hats?? Yes the still have the BSEN standard but because they have another which is on the 'approved' list then that's ok? Unless I've read the ruling incorrectly?

I so hope I don't have to replace my lovely dressage hat


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## soulfull (16 December 2014)

chestnut cob said:



			I bought a Champion Euro Deluxe (the skull cap one with velvet harness/ chin strap etc) this year.  It meets the current BS standard and was tagged by BE, but I guess this means I can't use it in 2016...  annoying since I tried on pretty much every make and model of hat,  and this was the only one that fit me!!
		
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Yiu need to see what standard it is  if it is pass15 then you wi&#314;l be ok


Vodkagirly said:



			Surely the hat companies must of known about this in advance? 

I think I have a caldene prestige for Christmas. It apparently is bsi kitemark does that make a difference?
		
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Sorry nope  it's still only a 1384


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## khalswitz (17 December 2014)

So I take it my Champion Ventair skull (not the new deluxes, two years old now) is ok, being a PAS015:1998 standard? But my Junior X-Air riding hat is not, being only BSEN1384? (For BRC, obviously I don't use the peaked hat for eventing).

Also, is it just BE and BRC who have announced this so far?


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## soulfull (17 December 2014)

khalswitz said:



			So I take it my Champion Ventair skull (not the new deluxes, two years old now) is ok, being a PAS015:1998 standard? But my Junior X-Air riding hat is not, being only BSEN1384? (For BRC, obviously I don't use the peaked hat for eventing).

Also, is it just BE and BRC who have announced this so far?
		
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Correct  on the hats  but BD and BS also


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## Joyous70 (17 December 2014)

Oh no!!!! does that mean my HS1 that i bought earlier this year especially for XC will be no good after next year?


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## EstherYoung (17 December 2014)

Are the ASTM hats ok? They are stamped CE and deemed to be 1384 equivalent I think, even if their actual protection is more like a PAS015. If they're not, then it rules out most of our vented hats which are US imports....


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## georgiegirl (17 December 2014)

As far as I can interpret it it's only hats which have JUST BSEN which won't be allowed....if your hat conforms to snell, pas or ASTM then they should be fine? 

Would be great to get clarification on this


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## mega spoilt ponies (17 December 2014)

DAMN IT!! just bought two new Gatehouse conquests for xmas!!!! anyone fancy a stunning suede/Swarovski crystal gatehouse hat?!!!!!! Grrrrrr


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## ljohnsonsj (17 December 2014)

Hope PROtectors will still be allowed. Spent just short of £400 on mine a few months ago. As far as i was aware, the PROtecs was meant to be like the highest standard of safety, which is why i got one. Leading me to think this is nothing but a money making scheme for the right companies.


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## wally (17 December 2014)

I have a Gatehouse Conquest for dressage which looking at this will be ok for BE, BSJA etc for 2015 but defunct after...
Bit naughty of hat companies not to give people plenty of warning and just before Christmas is a bit dirty too...!

Here is the link to Pony Club website which also outlines other disciplines strategies too.. http://www.pcuk.org/index.php/news/...strian_riding_helmet_standard_to_be_withdrawn


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## Sussexbythesea (17 December 2014)

Another one with a Gatehouse Conquest which I bought 8 months ago and have used twice due to horse injury. I've not looked at it's rating recently but from comments on here it sounds likely that I'll never wear it again as current horse is unlikely to be competing again in the near future if ever. 

What a total waste of money. I know standards have to improve but it sounds like hat companies will be raking it in when people have to fork out yet again for new hats which these days are a big investment.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (17 December 2014)

Joyous70 said:



			Oh no!!!! does that mean my HS1 that i bought earlier this year especially for XC will be no good after next year?
		
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As it's also got PAS015 & SNELL E2001, so hopefully should be fine!


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## Joyous70 (17 December 2014)

EquiEquestrian556 said:



			As it's also got PAS015 & SNELL E2001, so hopefully should be fine!
		
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 PHEW


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## rara007 (17 December 2014)

Gah! I like my Fiona  Mad as that fits me well, I have some nearly vintage gr8s that are now too big that I could wear instead which would be legal but much less safe!


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## LFD (17 December 2014)

I have a Gatehouse Pegasus which I use for the DR and SJ @ BE and I love it - looks like I'll need to replace it for 2016 :-( Sad times


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## huskimo12 (17 December 2014)

Just bought a new Gatehouse conquest  one expensive home hat now


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## MegaBeast (17 December 2014)

EquiEquestrian556 said:



			As it's also got PAS015 & SNELL E2001, so hopefully should be fine!
		
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Joyous70 said:



			Oh no!!!! does that mean my HS1 that i bought earlier this year especially for XC will be no good after next year?
		
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Afraid that's not true, the HS1s don't have PAS015.

Also, I note that it's PAS015 (2011) not earlier that'll be allowed.

And in fairness, this was a drastic move to withdraw the standard and the hat manufacturers would have been unaware


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## khalswitz (17 December 2014)

MegaBeast said:



			Afraid that's not true, the HS1s don't have PAS015.

Also, I note that it's PAS015 (2011) not earlier that'll be allowed.

And in fairness, this was a drastic move to withdraw the standard and the hat manufacturers would have been unaware
		
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Wait, just read through the beta thing and no where was it mentioned that it was only 2011 onwards - as long as Pas015 then it gets the kite mark, which is the important thing? Where did u read 2011?


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## teapot (17 December 2014)

Interesting that Megabeast has mentioned the PAS 2011 standard - just looked at my barely a month old Charles Owen, which is ASTM, BSEN 1384 2012 and PAS 015 2011. 


The hat I replaced it with is just BSEN 1384 and PAS 015 with no date stamps. Plus the ASTM. Wonder if BETA will mention dates in any further press releases?


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## khalswitz (17 December 2014)

Just read the BETA standards guide, and kite mark and CE mark are given to any PAS015, either 1998 or 2011, so at this stage either would be acceptable from 2016 under the new rules I believe. However, who knows whether there may be plans to downgrade the 1998 before then...


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## teapot (17 December 2014)

khalswitz said:



			Just read the BETA standards guide, and kite mark and CE mark are given to any PAS015, either 1998 or 2011, so at this stage either would be acceptable from 2016 under the new rules I believe. However, who knows whether there may be plans to downgrade the 1998 before then...
		
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If they're wanting to up the standards of hats across the board, it wouldn't surprise me if they did scrap the older dated standards. In some ways I'll be grateful if they do, as someone who has to check hats at an RDA group...


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## Polar Bear9 (17 December 2014)

What?! We can't wear Protectors to compete?! D: Stuff that poop, I spent enough flipping money on my hat to get one with top safety standards


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## EquiEquestrian556 (17 December 2014)

MegaBeast said:



			Afraid that's not true, the HS1s don't have PAS015.
		
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Not true, it DOES have a PAS015 kitemark. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gatehouse...RAND-NEW-/281393524518?_trksid=p2054897.l4275


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## ester (17 December 2014)

my HS1 is only a couple of years old but has the old 1998 PAS label in it


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## mil1212 (17 December 2014)

Here's the label in my HS1, it is 6 years old (and I am going to replace it now anyhow), but defo PAS015 (in this case 1998)


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## khalswitz (17 December 2014)

merlinsquest said:



			My Protector which is Snell has a CE mark in it, from reading this I think it will be ok for BS.
		
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But the CE mark is linked to the safety rating, and SNELL doesn't rate a CE mark. So it depends on whether your CE mark comes from a BSEN standard or a PAS015 standard as to whether it will still technically be CE marked (because the BSEN will no longer rate a CE mark).



ester said:



			There is nothing stopping them getting snell tested hats etc tested under whatever the new CE thing is though?
		
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That's what they've said, that there will likely be a lot of faff as they sort out which standards will be kite marked/CE marked now the main standard is begin stood down. Also, hats not previously tested to PAS015 for example may now be tested, and if the same model then retrospectively gain a new standard. So this isn't the final change!



ester said:



			I think this statement is a bit misleading as the one below clarifies it as only for 2 years, arguably you should change your hat anyway then but
		
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Only two years for competition. There is no change to UK law, being that a child must wear a BSEN standard hat minimum on the road, for example, and the hats will still be safe to ride in for home, hacking etc... but the affiliated bodies make their own decisions about standards changing and what will accepted at competitions.


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## MegaBeast (17 December 2014)

khalswitz said:



			Wait, just read through the beta thing and no where was it mentioned that it was only 2011 onwards - as long as Pas015 then it gets the kite mark, which is the important thing? Where did u read 2011?
		
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Was in the H&H article.


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## ester (17 December 2014)

yup I know only for competition.... but that is quite a lot of people!


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## khalswitz (17 December 2014)

ester said:



			yup I know only for competition.... but that is quite a lot of people!
		
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Yes it is... but it won't affect unaffiliated competition, so that will rule out quite a lot of grassrootsy type people as well from worrying too much. I only did my first affiliated comps (whether BRC/BD/BE) this year, so the last however many years of riding wouldn't have been affected by this at all really!


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## khalswitz (17 December 2014)

MegaBeast said:



			Was in the H&H article.
		
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Had a look... looks like they're recommending it as there's likely to be more changes which may affect 1998 standard, for buying new hats, but no difference from a comp legal perspective on the current info I don't think.


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## ester (17 December 2014)

most unaffiliated competitions are run to 'BD/BE/BS/RC/PC rules' so they will be affected. 

You might get away with it if there is no hat tagging (usually only eventing but have known it at RC area dressage too....)


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## khalswitz (17 December 2014)

ester said:



			most unaffiliated competitions are run to 'BD/BE/BS/RC/PC rules' so they will be affected. 

You might get away with it if there is no hat tagging (usually only eventing but have known it at RC area dressage too....)
		
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BRC tags, as does PC and BE, but majority of unaff will never bother checking your hat... so won't make a diff to them.


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## Pinkvboots (17 December 2014)

Flame_ said:



			So will there still be very lightweight, highly ventilated hats or will they not meet the new standards? I hate most riding hats.
		
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So do I took me ages to buy a new one I had been wearing the same hat for about ten years but it started to smell really bad so had to do something about it.


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## Ella19 (18 December 2014)

I spoke to the uvex rep today at Olympia. They assured me that the hat will 've fine for 2016 it wwill just need returning to a supplier for a new sticker.


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## MiaBella (18 December 2014)

Ella19 said:



			I spoke to the uvex rep today at Olympia. They assured me that the hat will 've fine for 2016 it wwill just need returning to a supplier for a new sticker.
		
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LOL  so even though its not been tested against the PAS015 standard (else it would be labelled with that) and they don't know what the CE mark will be certified against, they are sure it will be fine?  Thats a rather big assumption to be making as a rep!  

I did notice the KEP stand looked quite busy with the PAS015 labels proudly on display, but that the fitters at Townfields didn't seem to be advising anyone of the change. 

Clearly some people were aware of this back in November (and so the manufactorers and retailers should have been on the ball)  This post was dated a month ago: 
https://ntfmuse.wordpress.com/2014/11/13/confirmation-of-withdrawal-of-skull-cap-standard/


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## Lanky Loll (18 December 2014)

Have contacted Gatehouse through their website to see if they have any plans to rebadge - I haven't even used my new conquest yet :-(


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## Gamebird (18 December 2014)

I'm not quite sure what all the fuss is about. Given that it's over a year until the new standards are in place (and even longer until the 2016 BE season starts), then unless you've only just bought the hat, or are the best rider on the safest horse in the world, chances are you should be replacing your hat in that sort of timeframe anyway. Do none of you expect to have a fall in 2015? I'm blooming sure I will at some point.

I never used to replace my hat but had it sent back to the manufacturer and tested after an innocuous fall this autumn (one in which I didn't even think I'd hit my head). There was evidence of long term degradation of the foam lining coupled with a serious fresh crack from the fall. From a a completely minor fall. 

I know hats are expensive (well the trendy ones are, amyway) but I seriously don't expect to be competing in 2016 in the same hat I'm wearing now. No way. So I'll just make sure that the next hat I buy complies with the standards. If a miracle happens and I don't come off in the next year (highly unlikely!) I'll relegate my current hat to home use and get a nice fancy new hat for competing next Christmas. It's no great stress.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (18 December 2014)

doesnt affect me personally as show hat complies but if you already have a home hat and have just spent over £500 on a show hat i can see it would be very stressful!

i dont think many people will be expecting to take a tumble at a show really, so the fall argument is going to affect only a tiny %.

I dont expect to replace my show hat for ages now, it cost a bomb, thats why it gets saved for shows!


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## Lanky Loll (18 December 2014)

GB - whilst I fully expect to go splat between now and 2016 these days the heaviest bit of me is my butt and touch wood that's what I usually land on  so having literally bought a new hat on Friday and not worn it at all yet it's just a bit gutting.


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## Gamebird (18 December 2014)

I guess I live in a world where hats cost ~ £100, not £500!  

I'm a bit bottom heavy too LL  but I'm afraid seeing the foam inside my hat all cracked (having never had a bad fall) has convinced me that I must hit my head occasionally, even if I don't notice at the time.


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## Wheels (18 December 2014)

Oh goodie, now I can use my lovely plush velvet hat at home then as I'll need a new one in a just over a year, great excuse to go shopping  

My home hat would be ok anyway RXC1


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## Sussexbythesea (18 December 2014)

Gamebird said:



			I'm not quite sure what all the fuss is about. Given that it's over a year until the new standards are in place (and even longer until the 2016 BE season starts), then unless you've only just bought the hat, or are the best rider on the safest horse in the world, chances are you should be replacing your hat in that sort of timeframe anyway. Do none of you expect to have a fall in 2015? I'm blooming sure I will at some point.

I never used to replace my hat but had it sent back to the manufacturer and tested after an innocuous fall this autumn (one in which I didn't even think I'd hit my head). There was evidence of long term degradation of the foam lining coupled with a serious fresh crack from the fall. From a a completely minor fall. 

I know hats are expensive (well the trendy ones are, amyway) but I seriously don't expect to be competing in 2016 in the same hat I'm wearing now. No way. So I'll just make sure that the next hat I buy complies with the standards. If a miracle happens and I don't come off in the next year (highly unlikely!) I'll relegate my current hat to home use and get a nice fancy new hat for competing next Christmas. It's no great stress.
		
Click to expand...

I know I'm tempting fate here but I've only fallen off my horse once in 9.5 years but we don't do a lot of jumping but we do hack a lot. I bought my GC purely for dressage comps so would not wear it that often. It replaced a 9 year old Charles Owen Kids black velvet cap.  I've used it twice and it seems that might be it as my horse is recovering from an op and unlikely to compete in the next year if ever. Ironically the cheap on sale Champion ventair skull cap I bought at the same time for hacking etc. seems to be fully compliant.


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## Pebble101 (19 December 2014)

Having done hat checking for RC events, some of the most expensive don't comply to even the current regulations.


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## Flame_ (19 December 2014)

Lanky Loll said:



			GB - whilst I fully expect to go splat between now and 2016 these days the heaviest bit of me is my butt and touch wood that's what I usually land on  so having literally bought a new hat on Friday and not worn it at all yet it's just a bit gutting.
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't you take it back if you'e not worn it yet?


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## Lanky Loll (19 December 2014)

Possibly Flame_ but it took nearly 2 hours of fiddling to get any hat to fit me, and to be fair on the retailer I could fall off next week and need a new one anyway. 
I've contacted Gatehouse to see if they're planning (or indeed are able) to do any rebadging but haven't heard anything back yet.  Plus... I don't like the huge hats - the alternatives make me look like some sort of lollipop


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## Skib (19 December 2014)

My HS1 has been worn twice a week for the last year. Only the now defunct  kite mark standard is woven into the label. I dont compete, but the poor labelling doesnt inspire confidence.

Any other standards printed on the inner stick on label have long been obliterated. Except for part of a reference number. If I peel off this label, underneath is the word VOID. However, I know it was of a higher standard than the previous HS1 it replaced and that it should at one point have carried a date of manufacture.


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## ester (19 December 2014)

Skib my HS1 looks much the same inside.


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## RisingMist (19 December 2014)

Owner of year old gatehouse conquest and a brand new samshield - not yet worn as horse out of work.  So frustrating!!! So come 2016 I will have 2 lovely home hats to choose from and will have to fork out more money for a new comp hat which I won't even really want or need. Madness


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## Lanky Loll (19 December 2014)

I've heard back from the retailer I bought my hat from and they are not happy about the situation either - they heard about it the day before the announcement came out.  I've not asked (nor do I expect them to offer) them to take the hat back, and in the meantime they are trying to get an update from Gatehouse as well.


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## BillyS (22 January 2015)

You should replace your hat every year or so anyway, so hats on sale now will prob need to be replaced in 2016 anyway. 

I think most organisations will still accept the old safety standard, because it's still totally safe. The changes are only being made because the testing houses want to be paid to do more tests, so they've persuaded the decision makers to increase the standard. But its not actually about increasing safety really, we've all been safe for years wearing the hats with the old standards.


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## RunToEarth (22 January 2015)

Gamebird said:



			I'm not quite sure what all the fuss is about. Given that it's over a year until the new standards are in place (and even longer until the 2016 BE season starts), then unless you've only just bought the hat, or are the best rider on the safest horse in the world, chances are you should be replacing your hat in that sort of timeframe anyway. Do none of you expect to have a fall in 2015? I'm blooming sure I will at some point.

I never used to replace my hat but had it sent back to the manufacturer and tested after an innocuous fall this autumn (one in which I didn't even think I'd hit my head). There was evidence of long term degradation of the foam lining coupled with a serious fresh crack from the fall. From a a completely minor fall. 

I know hats are expensive (well the trendy ones are, amyway) but I seriously don't expect to be competing in 2016 in the same hat I'm wearing now. No way. So I'll just make sure that the next hat I buy complies with the standards. If a miracle happens and I don't come off in the next year (highly unlikely!) I'll relegate my current hat to home use and get a nice fancy new hat for competing next Christmas. It's no great stress.
		
Click to expand...

I agree GB. I don't just factor in falls either, I think about how many times mine might get knocked in the tackroom, tumble off of the luton or just dropped in the yard. Complete backwards thinking considering I drag that Patey around with me too, but my skull cap will get replaced most years.


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## RunToEarth (22 January 2015)

Lanky Loll said:



			I've heard back from the retailer I bought my hat from and they are not happy about the situation either - they heard about it the day before the announcement came out.  I've not asked (nor do I expect them to offer) them to take the hat back, and in the meantime they are trying to get an update from Gatehouse as well.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how much I would believe that manufacturers were completely in the dark - when there are industry changes like this, I would expect them to go out to consultation - I would bet that hat companies are not wanting to make people aware of changes in case it detrimentally affects their sales - especially as it was announced in the wake of Olympia, just before Christmas.


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## Que Sera (22 January 2015)

BillyS said:



			You should replace your hat every year or so anyway, so hats on sale now will prob need to be replaced in 2016 anyway. 

I think most organisations will still accept the old safety standard, because it's still totally safe. The changes are only being made because the testing houses want to be paid to do more tests, so they've persuaded the decision makers to increase the standard. But its not actually about increasing safety really, we've all been safe for years wearing the hats with the old standards.
		
Click to expand...

Not really every year (providing there's no damage) - they will go a bit longer, though obviously there's no harm in sooner rather than later! Body protectors (undamaged) are good for up to five years providing they still meet required standards when competing; hats less.

Re organisations probably still accepting the old standard - no, they categorically won't if the hat doesn't have another accepted marking where stated. These are tagging changes and there won't be leeway. From BETA:

British Eventing will permit (BS)EN1384 hats in 2015 but not thereafter.
All hats will be retagged in 2016 at which stage no hats made solely to (BS)EN1384 will be
tagged or permitted for use.

Riding Clubs &#8211; British Riding Clubs will permit (BS)EN1384 hats in 2015 but not thereafter.
All hats will be retagged in 2016 at which stage no hats made solely to (BS)EN1384 will be
tagged or permitted for use.

Pony Club - will permit (BS)EN1384 hats in 2015 but not thereafter. Full details of the
revised Hat Tagging procedure will be communicated out to the Membership and
Volunteers shortly.

British Dressage &#8211; will permit (BS)EN1384 hats in 2015 but not thereafter

British Showjumping - will permit (BS)EN1384 hats in 2015 but not thereafter

British Horse Society &#8211; will permit (BS)EN1384 hats in 2015 but not thereafter. From
1.1.2016 hats made solely to (BS)EN1384 will not be permitted for use in BHS Approved
Centres.


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## HLOEquestrian (22 January 2015)

I bought an Antares last summer and haven't even worn it yet and only has th EN1384 so that will have to be my home hat next year  I'm gutted


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