# Rockley Farm



## SARAHSALLYRUBY (5 January 2013)

Hi all

Further to my recent post re Rubys lameness, i have been told by the vet that i have three options

1. Bute her up and ride her until she is really lame and then PTS
2. Leave her as a field ornament - she is only 6
3. PTS now and claim loss of use

I feel i have one other option - Rockley Farm

I would be very interested to hear all stories, whether they are good or bad.
I am looking at send Ruby in February time

Thank you


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## be positive (5 January 2013)

Didn't want to read and not reply, looked back at your previous post you have had a bad run Rockley has a great reputation, although I have no direct experience, I think Nic will encourage you to make contact and ask for her opinion on whether they can help with your horse. 

Good luck I hope you get the response you want and that they can help your horse.


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## sbloom (5 January 2013)

Gotta be worth a call - Nic does amazing things there, and I've been there, the horses are happy, very happy.


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## cptrayes (5 January 2013)

Can you remind us what the basic issues are?


I see she was operated on for hind PSD and rested for front collateral ligaments.

If the hind PSD is resolved, there is a high chance that the collateral ligaments (which don't fix well with rest) can be resolved with a rehab at Rockley. 

I have just managed to get a horse sound who has been lame 4 years with probable collateral ligament strains even after a year in the paddock. The clue to these horses is often the right kind of work.


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## wellsat (5 January 2013)

Which farrier are you using? I looked into sending Gerry to Rockley for his suspensory problems but sadly my insurance wouldn't cover it.

I use Sean and he is very, very good with barefoot horses. He made more difference to Gerry with a good barefoot trim than remedial shoeing from other farriers ever had. If you've got the time to put the work in barefoot rehab is something you can do at home yourself with a good farrier supporting you.

It may or may not solve Ruby's lameness but its well worth trying.


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## ALO (5 January 2013)

I nearly sent mine, went up and visited,decided to try on my own in end due to costs. The horses all seem happy and Nic seems like a lovely lady. I'd probably give it a go if was mine, doesn't sound like you've got much to lose. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Andalucian (5 January 2013)

Phone and speak to them (Nic), she'll only take the horse on if she thinks she can help it.  Then you'll have your answer.  Good luck.


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (6 January 2013)

Hi

Thank you for all your comments

Much appreciated

be positive/s bloom/andalusian - thank you, im trying to be positive, soo hard after 2 years then the vets says to PTS

I have contacted Nic at Rockley and she has given me some good advise, Nic is also going to put me in touch with owners who have had similar issues to Ruby. I would love to speak to them.... so fingers crossed they get in touch.

I will try and get over there on a weekend off and have a look around

ChristmasPTrees - basic issues are lateral collateral ligament damage in both front legs and bilateral hind suspensory damage - the hinds have been operated on and box rest was done for the fronts.

I feel the hind issues are resolved

I was advised 6 months box rest by Sue Dyson, to help the front limbs 

wellsat - 
Im using my trusted farrier who is happy to support me in barefoot, i just feel i cannot do all the work on different surfaces etc.

My insurance has ran out too so i will be funding it.

How would i go about starting the rehab at home - Ruby had her shoes removed approx 5 weeks ago. 

ALO - Did you let the people and the set up at Rockley?

How did your own rehab go and what sort of things did you do?


Just back from the yard this morning, had a cry to Ruby whilst telling her i wouldnt see her for 3 months..its going to be soo hard.


x


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## smellsofhorse (6 January 2013)

I don't know the history but yes I agree rockley is worth a shot.
or retire on minimal bute and pts when no longer happy.

I would not be comfortable buteing up and riding. (obviously a bit of bute is "ok" but no pumping horse full of it.


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## ALO (6 January 2013)

I did like the set up, the horses seemed very chilled and happy.I only met Nic but she seemed nice and knowledgeable. Mine also had hindlimb issues  (spavin and a previous stifle injury) which appear to have resolved. Shoes came off in may, we did lots and lots of walking, in hand and then ridden. His foot shape and quality have improved massively. It has been quite a learning curve and we have had a few problems along the way but I feel he's steadily improving and was sound and started trotting a couple of weeks ago. He's now on box rest due to a hoof abcess though!!im hoping it'll clear soon.
I haven't completely ruled out rockley as on option, I said if i couldn't manage then I would reconsider sending him. It's definatly worth speaking to Nic. Good luck, I know what you're going through


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## Andalucian (6 January 2013)

One thing in your last post made me shudder.  You're dealing with two sets of bilateral lameness, fronts and hinds, both pairs exhibiting the same problems??

If I've got that right, just step out of the emotional zone for a moment and think about how such a thing happens, in both feet??  

I've never seen photos of your horse's feet, but from my experience in remedial feet over the last decade, these "pairs" of problems occur due to poor foot care, either long term shoeing alone can cause it, but for this the problems usually occur 10+ years old (i.e. navicular).  The other thing that could do it is poor balance.

Has your trusted farrier been the only person looking after these feet in all this time?  If yes, then its time to question his work for the sake of yourself and your horse.

I go back to my simplest advice, get a second opinion, from another foot expert, be that a farrier, or a barefoot person, just get the best recommended one you can and pay for their candid opinion on them and their prognosis for improvement.

Please don't take offence, I'm being honest with you, as I wish someone had been with me many years ago.


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## Leg_end (6 January 2013)

My horse is at Rockley at the moment. Nic will say if she thinks she can help, I contacted her about a horse before and she said she wouldn't be able to help so I totally trust her. She will tell it exactly as it is and will only do what's best for the horse. 

I was anxious about sending Buddy away for so long but I visited and saw that the horses were well cared for and they've all progressed. It's been tough but I'm on the final straight now so have 4 weeks and 4 days until he comes home (not that I'm counting  )

The Rockley owners are also a great support network, everyone rallies round and Nic is the foundation of that. 

If you can afford it then I would do it, you won't regret it. 

If you want anymore info please feel free to PM me


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (6 January 2013)

I couldnt agree more with you Andalucian

I changed farriers after my other mare damaged her suspensory ligament. I lost all faith in him when my girl wasnt coming sound in 'remedial' shoes, turns out he hadnt really done anything the vets had asked.
I blame myself for just going along with it and not questioning more.
Any way change of farrier, within weeks my girl was sound, correctly shod and now at 25 is happy, healthy, sound and in full work, shod every 6 weeks to maintain correct balace and alignment.

Unfortunately i has always trusted this farrier to trim my young girl too. I do feel this has contributed to her problems.
I trust my new farrier completely.


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (6 January 2013)

Leg_end ive pm'd you
x


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## Andalucian (6 January 2013)

Good, that sounds like you've got your self sorted on this front then


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## Tiffany (6 January 2013)

There are people on here who have made the transition from shod horses to barefoot at home so I'm sure they can give you some advice.

Rockley might be the answer but if you aren't able to manage similar diet/routine at home what happens after Rockley?


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## Tiffany (6 January 2013)

Andalucian said:



			One thing in your last post made me shudder.  You're dealing with two sets of bilateral lameness, fronts and hinds, both pairs exhibiting the same problems??

If I've got that right, just step out of the emotional zone for a moment and think about how such a thing happens, in both feet??  

I've never seen photos of your horse's feet, but from my experience in remedial feet over the last decade, these "pairs" of problems occur due to poor foot care, either long term shoeing alone can cause it, but for this the problems usually occur 10+ years old (i.e. navicular).  The other thing that could do it is poor balance.

Has your trusted farrier been the only person looking after these feet in all this time?  If yes, then its time to question his work for the sake of yourself and your horse.

I go back to my simplest advice, get a second opinion, from another foot expert, be that a farrier, or a barefoot person, just get the best recommended one you can and pay for their candid opinion on them and their prognosis for improvement.

Please don't take offence, I'm being honest with you, as I wish someone had been with me many years ago.
		
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So are you saying every horse owner who's horse has been diagnosed with  navicular should be blaming their farrier?


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## cptrayes (6 January 2013)

Festive Fairy said:



			Rockley might be the answer but if you aren't able to manage similar diet/routine at home what happens after Rockley?
		
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If Rockley *IS* the answer then why would you not move heaven and earth to recreate what Rockley can do when you get your sound horse home (it's not rocket science!) rather than shoot or pension off your horse? The diet is simple, the routine is movement and very regular work. 

Your last two posts on this thread sound pretty aggressive FF, do you have some issue here?


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## cptrayes (6 January 2013)

Festive Fairy said:



			So are you saying every horse owner who's horse has been diagnosed with  navicular should be blaming their farrier?
		
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If you take off the shoes and the horse comes sound, what else do you blame but the shoes?


No-one except you has said "every" so can you tone down the attack a bit??


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## Tiffany (6 January 2013)

Oh dear why is it that if anyone asks questions about barefoot it's considered an attack 


Christmasptrees........

I'll phrase it another way  Could the transition not be done at home with help from more experienced people rather than having to send horse away for 2-3 months? Like you said adjustments would have to be made when horse comes home so would it not be possible to do at home from the start?


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## Lancelot (7 January 2013)

SARAHSALLYRUBY, my horse went to Rockley, he's been home a year next month.

It really is a hard journey to embark on, a real rollercoaster ride but I can vouch for it being massively rewarding too! The Rockley owners, along with Nic, provide much needed support & understanding.

Yes, it may be possible to do at home but, in hindsight, I know I would have made mistakes. I would have panicked at some of the more dramatic changes and believe I would have tried to "help" too much ;-)
My horse developed a pretty big deviation which he continues to have a year later and which any interference with reduces his performance.

Please feel free to pm if you want to know anymore


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## criso (7 January 2013)

Festive Fairy said:



			O
I'll phrase it another way  Could the transition not be done at home with help from more experienced people rather than having to send horse away for 2-3 months? Like you said adjustments would have to be made when horse comes home so would it not be possible to do at home from the start?
		
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Mine went to Rockley and I don't think I could have done it at home for the following reasons.  

1) I was totally inexperienced with barefoot horses, had no experienced people around me and was surrounded by farriers and vets who believed that ' Tbs can't go barefoot'.  
2) There were issues around the the grazing and environment at home which would in the early stages have probably led to me giving up.  Once I knew he could manage in  an optimal environment (Rockley), I had the confidence to fix these issues at home.
3) He went to Rockley in Feb 2010.  I worked full time and in winter would not have been able to do stimulating work during the week only on Saturdays and Sundays.  Once I got a horse home in work I was able to get a sharer to hack him  twice a week during the week to keep him ticking over.
4) The tracks and environment at Rockley were especially helpful in the very early stages, at home he would have been on a muddy field or ridden in the school most of the time.  The fact that the grazing seems to be very horse friendly helps too.
5) At that time rehab livery at Rockley cost about the same as part livery in Herts.  

Now having had one and working freelance which gives me some flexibility with hours I would do it at home.

It's a bit like breaking or schooling a young horse, some people will send them away to professionals, some people will do it at home with help and support on hand, some  will have a go on their own. Sometimes the latter works out OK, often there are problems.


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## cptrayes (7 January 2013)

Tiffany said:



			Oh dear why is it that if anyone asks questions about barefoot it's considered an attack 

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It isn't. Questions phrased reasonably are always answered reasonably. I spend a lot of my time answering people's questions about barefoot.




			Christmasptrees........

I'll phrase it another way  Could the transition not be done at home with help from more experienced people rather than having to send horse away for 2-3 months? Like you said adjustments would have to be made when horse comes home so would it not be possible to do at home from the start?
		
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But Festive Fairy didn't say that, did she? She said




			So are you saying every horse owner who's horse has been diagnosed with navicular should be blaming their farrier?
		
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which in the context of the post she was responding to was impossible for me to read as anything but an attack.

If Festive Fairy had written what you wrote instead, then there would have been no problem. Thankyou for translating for her but your translation is not actually either of the "questions" that she posed.


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## Lancelot (7 January 2013)

criso said:



			Once I knew he could manage in  an optimal environment (Rockley), I had the confidence to fix these issues at home.
		
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I second this! Once you are confident they are capable of something, you stop asking 'if' and instead ask 'how' you can achieve it at home


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## Oberon (7 January 2013)

Tiffany said:



			I'll phrase it another way  Could the transition not be done at home with help from more experienced people rather than having to send horse away for 2-3 months? Like you said adjustments would have to be made when horse comes home so would it not be possible to do at home from the start?
		
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It is perfectly possible to do it all at home. Nic will be the first to admit that there's no magic or voodoo going on at Rockley .

I know and have helped support a few people via HHO through rehabing their horse. I can tell you that the emotional toll and worry is huge on an owner going it alone. 

"The pilot has passed out - please could you land the plane for us?"  

Most have little or no support from their vet or farrier and even those that do, will quickly find the knowledge and experience regarding barefoot very limited when they hit upon a problem .

I can only do so much over the internet and sometimes I scratch my head over what is going on while the horse throws a spanner in the works.....

Biggest problem I find is getting enough stimulation to the frog - that tends to hold horses back. Progress can be slow without those great pea gravel tracks to move things along.

With Rockley you send your sick hooved horse there, Nic does all the hard work and worrying for you....and then you pick up a healthier hooved horse a couple of months later with a list of whats and whats not to do and a plan for the future.

If Rockley is a possibility - then I would say it's the easiest and most efficient option. If Rockley isn't a possibility, then I will always try my best to help out online (even though I often wish I'd kept my mouth shut ).


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## cptrayes (7 January 2013)

The big issue with doing a rehab at home, as I have now done twice, is that in order to stimulate the back of the foot, unsound horses need work. At Rockley, that is done initiallly with group turnout onto a circular track system where the horses walk themselves around and around all day on various surfaces of different levels of challenge. While their feet are still weak, they can choose less difficult surfaces.

At home, that work mostly has to be done on roads with a handler or rider, which takes a lot of time and energy. In a livery yard it's even worse, with people looking over your shoulder questionning why you are working a horse that is not sound, even if all you are doing is walking it like a dog. Some people in some yards even sit there talking behind your back waiting for you to fail.

My second rehab has been a huge lesson to me. He had not worked for a year. He had been barefoot in a field with other horses. And yet when he came to me he was still unsound. It took many miles, but only a couple of months, for him to come sound with work, and he has, touch wood, stayed that way now for many weeks. Work, lame or not, was essential to cure him.

That's a judgement call that a lot of owners would find incredibly difficult to make on their own. For people in that situation, Rockley is a saviour. What we need is a string of rehab yards around the country the same. I'm quite surprised that no-one has yet set one up in the north or the south west, but live in hope.


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## Andalucian (7 January 2013)

Tiffany said:



			So are you saying every horse owner who's horse has been diagnosed with  navicular should be blaming their farrier?
		
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No, but I do say they should be blaming the long term application of shoes.


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## Spring Feather (7 January 2013)

cptrayes said:



			If Festive Fairy had written what you wrote instead, then there would have been no problem. Thankyou for translating for her but your translation is not actually either of the "questions" that she posed.
		
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Festive Fairy IS Tiffany.


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## Tiffany (7 January 2013)

cptrayes said:



			It isn't. Questions phrased reasonably are always answered reasonably. I spend a lot of my time answering people's questions about barefoot.



But Festive Fairy didn't say that, did she? She said



which in the context of the post she was responding to was impossible for me to read as anything but an attack.

If Festive Fairy had written what you wrote instead, then there would have been no problem. Thankyou for translating for her but your translation is not actually either of the "questions" that she posed.
		
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I am Festive Fairy and this is what I said in first post.........

There are people on here who have made the transition from shod horses to barefoot at home so I'm sure they can give you some advice.

Rockley might be the answer but if you aren't able to manage similar diet/routine at home what happens after Rockley?

I think above is a reasonable question when you consider that if a 'sound' house comes home it is likely to require a different rountine and possibly different surfaces. If that's the case and OP doesn't have own land she'll need cooperation from YO. So my thinking is, speak to someone experienced and spend money making changes at home with help.


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## Tiffany (7 January 2013)

Andalucian said:



			No, but I do say they should be blaming the long term application of shoes.
		
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Understood - I moved yards a few years ago which meant I changed farrier. My mare went lame the first time he shod her, plus he insisted on toe clips which she'd not had after tweaking a suspensory ligamnent.

He was a registered farrier so I gave him the benefit of the doubt for about 3 more times then called it a day when she got a bulge in her hoof wall and he wouldn't shoe her the way she'd always been shod.

It took me months to get her sound and last year she was diagnosed with navicular (not saying that's his fault although, don't think he helped?)

I have a good farrier who works with vet and I'm pleased to say she's doing really well


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## Tiffany (7 January 2013)

cptrayes said:



			It isn't. Questions phrased reasonably are always answered reasonably. I spend a lot of my time answering people's questions about barefoot.



But Festive Fairy didn't say that, did she? She said



which in the context of the post she was responding to was impossible for me to read as anything but an attack.

If Festive Fairy had written what you wrote instead, then there would have been no problem. Thankyou for translating for her but your translation is not actually either of the "questions" that she posed.
		
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Andalucian didn't take my question as an attack so not sure why you would.

I have learnt a lot about barefoot in the last 12 months mainly from people on here (including you) so I have no reason to attack barefoot infact, my mare has been barefoot for about 7 years I just choose not to take her front shoes off.


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (7 January 2013)

I'm sorry I've caused such an argument, I just want the best for my mare
i  would love to do the rehab at home but working full time and having a diy liv
ery yard environment I do not think I have access to the stimuli needed to progress. 
Would any one be willingtp to chat me through what actual rehab they did at home and what sort of ground conditions were available to them.
I am willing to out the hours in, I just know though, that I would be unhappy leading a lame horse for miles.


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## Tiffany (7 January 2013)

SARAHSALLYRUBY said:



			I'm sorry I've caused such an argument, I just want the best for my mare
i  would love to do the rehab at home but working full time and having a diy liv
ery yard environment I do not think I have access to the stimuli needed to progress. 
Would any one be willingtp to chat me through what actual rehab they did at home and what sort of ground conditions were available to them.
I am willing to out the hours in, I just know though, that I would be unhappy leading a lame horse for miles.
		
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I'm sure you will get offers of help from some very knowledgeable people on here.

Once you know what's involved you'll know what is best for you and your horse. 

Good luck


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (8 January 2013)

Morning every one, just read my post back and realised how many mistakes are in it!

Was on the other comp, bad keyboard, and it was getting late, should reply earlier next time.

Thanks for every ones replies, its a lot to think about and take in.

Im just trying to sort transport as i sold my lorry back in the summer, before i had even heard about Rockley!!  

Looks like its going to cost another £500 each way for a transporter!!

Hopefully i can borow a trailer and tow.

I think i have made the decision to go ahead with Rockley as i feel it is worth the trip down there and the money to get he right help and knowledge from people in the know.

I feel that i could not rehab Ruby at home due to the yard environment and facilities availaible. I also think i would worry too much and give up.

Has any one had any horses at Rockley who have not got better, would love to hear both outcomes.

I agree that nothing out of the ordinary happens at Rockley, but at least they have the knowledge, experience and understanding.

As for helping Ruby when she comes home, i know i will have a supportive farrier, and have already been looking into moving yards to give my girly the best chance once she returns home.

Can anyone tell me what sort of work there horses came home able to do??

Thank you

Off to work now.....

x


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## criso (8 January 2013)

Don't feel you should be able to do it at home,  if sending her to Rockley is an option then take it as you would be giving her the best possible start.

Couple of practical answers.

I used those websites that let you enter a journey and horse transporters come back to you with a quote, if you're lucky you find a transporter that is doing a run in that direction.  Quotes varied from £200 to £500 from Herts to Exmoor.  Also check with Nic, there is someone that other people have used who is reasonably priced.

Mine came back to do everything, jump, hunt etc.  When I got him home I spent a couple of months hacking and then introduced schooling and then jumping.

Unfortunately two years after he had an injury to his shoulder which despite an operation hasn't resolved. He's turned away at the moment.


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## sbloom (8 January 2013)

If you can tow then hiring a trailer will be a lot cheaper.  Good luck!


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## Andalucian (8 January 2013)

Tiffany said:



			Understood - I moved yards a few years ago which meant I changed farrier. My mare went lame the first time he shod her, plus he insisted on toe clips which she'd not had after tweaking a suspensory ligamnent.

He was a registered farrier so I gave him the benefit of the doubt for about 3 more times then called it a day when she got a bulge in her hoof wall and he wouldn't shoe her the way she'd always been shod.

It took me months to get her sound and last year she was diagnosed with navicular (not saying that's his fault although, don't think he helped?)

I have a good farrier who works with vet and I'm pleased to say she's doing really well 

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You did right to walk away when the bulge appeared.  Navicular is unlikely to be directly linked to this though, as its more to do with overall contraction in the caudal part of the foot.  Bulges are usually due to wall being too long, so the bulge happens as the foot tries to balance itself internally against this problem.

Glad things are going well for you currently - the best approach is to keep learning/listening and challenging soundness issues until you get the right result for your particular horse.


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## Andalucian (8 January 2013)

cptrayes said:



			The big issue with doing a rehab at home, as I have now done twice, is that in order to stimulate the back of the foot, unsound horses need work. At Rockley, that is done initiallly with group turnout onto a circular track system where the horses walk themselves around and around all day on various surfaces of different levels of challenge. While their feet are still weak, they can choose less difficult surfaces.

What we need is a string of rehab yards around the country the same. I'm quite surprised that no-one has yet set one up in the north or the south west, but live in hope.
		
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Precisely, the environment and the herd moving the new horses about over the variety of stimulating surfaces is the key to Rockley's success.  Its speeds up the process, and horses can just get on with it, lame or sound, without uneducated, worried owners panicking that they're sore.  In time, they just come right, but to do this at home needs careful handholding of the owner if they're new to barefoot and have a very delicate footed horse.

If I win the Lottery I'll have a rehab yard in Somerset within the year - promise


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## Lancelot (8 January 2013)

OP, worth speaking to Nic about transport, she may even be able to help you with sharing a journey with another owner. 

My horse came home to some light hacking, built it up gradually and he now works 6 days a week including 1 lesson & 1 schooling session. We did our very first XC jumps ever at the rehab reunion 2012 and we're hoping to get to our very first dressage comp in a couple of months :-O only a walk & trot but it will be a real landmark for us!

!


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## cptrayes (8 January 2013)

Andalucian said:



			Precisely, the environment and the herd moving the new horses about over the variety of stimulating surfaces is the key to Rockley's success.  Its speeds up the process, and horses can just get on with it, lame or sound, without uneducated, worried owners panicking that they're sore.  In time, they just come right, but to do this at home needs careful handholding of the owner if they're new to barefoot and have a very delicate footed horse.

If I win the Lottery I'll have a rehab yard in Somerset within the year - promise
		
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I meant south east of course, since Rockley is on Exmoor, but another one anywhere will be a bonus!


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## cptrayes (8 January 2013)

Tiffany said:



			Andalucian didn't take my question as an attack so not sure why you would.
		
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She didn't need to, I had already responded to you. And unlike Festive Fairy and you, we are two different people with two different characters    Meanwhile, to me it continues to sound as though you are looking for an argument with this post too. 




			I have learnt a lot about barefoot in the last 12 months mainly from people on here (including you) so I have no reason to attack barefoot infact, my mare has been barefoot for about 7 years I just choose not to take her front shoes off.
		
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I think we both agree that you worded both your statements that I took exception to in a way which could be misinterpreted fairly easily, otherwise you would not have needed to volunteer a "translation" of your own post.

Now, can we just focus on what is best for the horses???

I personally would never define a horse with any shoes on as a barefoot horse. Is there a particular reason why you don't take your mare's front shoes off?


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## Diddleydoo (8 January 2013)

Andalucian said:



			If I win the Lottery I'll have a rehab yard in Somerset within the year - promise
		
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If I win I'll do one in Lancashire 

If I had the knowledge and even a small piece of land I'd give it a go up here anyway.  CPTrayes is right we do need more rehab centres in other parts of the country.  

But if my girl ever needed it I'd carry her to Rockley if I had to


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## cptrayes (8 January 2013)

SARAHSALLYRUBY said:



			I'm sorry I've caused such an argument, I just want the best for my mare
i  would love to do the rehab at home but working full time and having a diy liv
ery yard environment I do not think I have access to the stimuli needed to progress. 
Would any one be willingtp to chat me through what actual rehab they did at home and what sort of ground conditions were available to them.
I am willing to out the hours in, I just know though, that I would be unhappy leading a lame horse for miles.
		
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If you check out my blog, address in my signature, starting on October 14th 2012, you will find a day by day record of my latest rehab, who has now been sound since late November. He arrived bilaterally lame, almost certainly with ddft strains in both feet, collateral ligament damage on both sides of one forefoot and on one side of the other. He also had very odd things going on with the back feet too.

My facilities are a grass field, roads, a fibre/rubber arena and a small barn that 3 horses overnight together in, so they have plenty of  movement and their feet get to dry out. Most of my rehab work is done on roads.

In another blog, which I can give you the address to if you like, there is a day by day account of my first one, who was full blown navicular as well as probable insulin resistance resulting in desperately soft feet. He has now been sound for well over two years.


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## Wundahorse (8 January 2013)

Have just joined the thread with interest as i have a 13 year old WB with coffin joint issues,and on his inside fore he dishes as he put his foot down a rabbit hole as a yearling which caused a twist within the hoof (xrays showed the twisty bones),which in turn caused dishing.Over time this has created the pressure resulting in lameness.He has had three treatments with steroid injections and hyluronic acid and two rounds of adequan.Currently he is sound and i am trying to keep him exercised even though time is precious and the weather is appalling.My daughter used to show jump him,and he has jumped fairly big tracks until 18 months ago when the lameness started.Currently i usually try to hack out,at weekends at the moment.So far he is fine,but occasionally a bit uncertain going down steep hills.He has natural balance shoes and his feet trimmed every 4 weeks,as if he goes longer,his feet get sore.My question is;would my WB be a suitable candidate for barefoot and the Rockley rehab regime? Neither myself,or anyone i know has any experience of barefoot rehab and i would appreciate any opinions which in the longer term could keep my boy sound.


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## ester (8 January 2013)

Wundahorse, Frank is a 19yo welsh with coffin joint issues (DJD diagnosis with reverse rotated pedal bones).. who also dishes because.. well.. he is welsh  and lands laterally first (although less so now)- so I would be surprised if he didn't have any collateral ligament issues too. 

He had 2 treatments of steroid +HA end of 2011/early 2012 and was bar shod but did not maintain soundness when trot work was introduced after each injection. 

Shoes came off March 2012, had no experience of barefoot other than this forum and rockley would have been complicated as then no company for mum's horse at home! I got a good, very lovely trimmer on board and just took things very slowly. We also (partly due to waistlines) set up a track round the edge of the field so that they were moving round more, we also got a bit of pea gravel though not sure that worked. We did do a lot of walking and I took it quite slowly as had the time. Now have a sound pony  Ridden 4/5 times a week dressaging, jumping a bit on the beach etc. He has been a been footy sometimes, particularly as they re-gritted all our local roads  but we have some hoof boots for when we need them so we can keep the work up.


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## criso (8 January 2013)

Wundahorse - 

You may find a horse like yours who has some odd things going on within  the hoof,  will grow a strange foot to compensate and this may well work very well for him.  However it takes a brave person to  leave this alone and not trim to standard shaped hoof.

Might be worth reading though some of the histories on the Rockley blog to see examples of this.


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## Andalucian (8 January 2013)

Wundahorse, in short, Yes, and QUICKLY.

If the horse is so delicate that it goes lame in 4 weeks post shoeing, whilst still in shoes, its pretty fragile and close to being permanently unsound in shoes.

The age and breed of your horse is classic for these type of problems in long term shoes, and IMO you have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain by rehabilitating the feet without shoes.  I work with clients to do this themselves at their own stables, but its far easier on you with a horse as delicate as this to send it to a rehabilitation yard to transition safely and quickly.  

I lost my first horse after following a similar path to the one you describe, long before I learnt about barefoot.  If I owned that horse now, she'd still be alive as I'd know how to fix her.


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## cptrayes (8 January 2013)

Another yes from me Wundahorse. My current rehab had been four years unsound and is now fine, but growing a very odd set of feet, all round. Not a straight one among them, but obviously they are what he needs because he is sound on them.

You horse's best chance, in my experience, would be to be allowed to grow the hoof he needs to fit the wonky bones in his foot/leg, however odd a foot that is. 

I'm another who thinks that lame 4 weeks after each shoeing is likely to be a sign that he is soon not going to be sound in shoes at all.


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## Wundahorse (9 January 2013)

Thank you all for your support and i will definitely consider the barefoot route as our WB is a lovely boy and much too nice a horse to allow him to deteriorate if there is an alternative way of managing him.I'm just a little wary as i have no personal experience of barefoot rehab.I think if he goes lame again i will be talking to Nic at Rockley,but at the moment i am just struggling to get through winter with all the usual life balancing stuff so once the weather picks up and the lighter evenings emerge,i will be on the case.Is there anything i can do in the interim to support my horse?


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## cptrayes (9 January 2013)

A high fibre, low carb especially low sugar diet is the first place to go. Then add a foot formula vit and min mix, with most people seeming to get on very well indeed with the Pro Earth one sold on eBay. Some people add additional magnesium oxide. 

If you have an area where you could lay pea gravel (or bed a stable in it), that will massage his soles and frogs and improve the quality of them before his shoes come off.

Meanwhile, try to stop your farrier trimming his frogs if you can.


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## Wundahorse (9 January 2013)

Thank you for that i will definitely look at his diet.Currently he has fast fibre,calm and condition and a chaff,usually Happy Hoof,with extraflex and rose-hips and some garlic,oh and micronised Linseed as i have read on this forum that this is good for the foot.I suppose i can put pea gravel around the gateway.At the moment he is sound,but the ground is favourable being very soft.I am not sure whether to leave things be as he is sound,or just bite the bullet and have the shoes removed.I will give him the magnesium although we tried it once,some years ago and it seemed to have an energizing effect.I give my other two magnitude for foot health and as a relaxant,particularly for my Section D mare who can be stressy.When we had the lameness work up and xrays,we could not check the DDFT as there was no MRI,but it does seem obvious this may be a contributory factor.Is there anything else i can do to minimize further damage?


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## Wundahorse (9 January 2013)

Andalucian said:



			Wundahorse, in short, Yes, and QUICKLY.

If the horse is so delicate that it goes lame in 4 weeks post shoeing, whilst still in shoes, its pretty fragile and close to being permanently unsound in shoes.

The age and breed of your horse is classic for these type of problems in long term shoes, and IMO you have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain by rehabilitating the feet without shoes.  I work with clients to do this themselves at their own stables, but its far easier on you with a horse as delicate as this to send it to a rehabilitation yard to transition safely and quickly.  

I lost my first horse after following a similar path to the one you describe, long before I learnt about barefoot.  If I owned that horse now, she'd still be alive as I'd know how to fix her.
		
Click to expand...

Andalucian are you a specialist foot therapist and how would you go about rehab at home.I worry my WB could be a handful in that when he gets excited or scared he has a tendency to tank of in hand,and i would hate it if he injured anyone.We are familiar with this habit and manage it with certain strategies.The odd thing is he has done this in times when he was lame,on hard and soft ground.In any event i would prefer to do the rehab from home,that is if i am competent to do it.


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## criso (9 January 2013)

Whereabouts are you based Wundahorse? Someone may be able to recommend someone who is nearby.

The other thing you can check is how he is landing, best way to do it is to film the horse walking over a flat surface and slow it down.  Again the Rockley website is one place you can see examples

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/comparing-heel-first-and-toe-first.html


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## Wundahorse (9 January 2013)

I'm in Kent,in the Maidstone area.I had never heard of Rockley until i started using this forum,and had no concept then of the benefits of barefoot.Without all of the wonderful knowledge and information from the ,dare i say it,"barefoot Taliban",it seems a lot of horses would be destined to a life of pain and at worst euthanasia.It seems there is nobody in my area,or at least as far as i know, who have barefoot rehab experience.Like most people i have little time outside of work,horses,walking the dogs and housework to do anything else in the day,which limits what i can do outside of that routine,until spring arrives and the horses can live out.Sadly this is a fantasy at the moment.If there is anyone in the area that will certainly help.


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## Andalucian (9 January 2013)

Wundahorse said:



			Andalucian are you a specialist foot therapist and how would you go about rehab at home.I worry my WB could be a handful in that when he gets excited or scared he has a tendency to tank of in hand,and i would hate it if he injured anyone.We are familiar with this habit and manage it with certain strategies.The odd thing is he has done this in times when he was lame,on hard and soft ground.In any event i would prefer to do the rehab from home,that is if i am competent to do it.
		
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Yes, I'm an Equine Podiatrist.  Each horse is different, and you need to assess it and advise on how it presents.  Personalities also change quite remarkably once horses start to heal.  If you'd prefer to do this at home, then seek out a reputable barefoot specialist in your area to guide you through.


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## NooNoo59 (9 January 2013)

Wundahorse said:



			I'm in Kent,in the Maidstone area.I had never heard of Rockley until i started using this forum,and had no concept then of the benefits of barefoot.Without all of the wonderful knowledge and information from the ,dare i say it,"barefoot Taliban",it seems a lot of horses would be destined to a life of pain and at worst euthanasia.It seems there is nobody in my area,or at least as far as i know, who have barefoot rehab experience.Like most people i have little time outside of work,horses,walking the dogs and housework to do anything else in the day,which limits what i can do outside of that routine,until spring arrives and the horses can live out.Sadly this is a fantasy at the moment.If there is anyone in the area that will certainly help.
		
Click to expand...

I am in Ashford, if you hear of anyone let me know, my boy has ddft damage and collateral ligament damage in the hinds, having an assessment at the end of this month and will talk to the vet.  I think i need to some more research on this as it makes a lot of sense, cptrayes and oberon both very helpful in this subject


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## Wundahorse (10 January 2013)

NooNoo59 said:



			I am in Ashford, if you hear of anyone let me know, my boy has ddft damage and collateral ligament damage in the hinds, having an assessment at the end of this month and will talk to the vet.  I think i need to some more research on this as it makes a lot of sense, cptrayes and oberon both very helpful in this subject
		
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I agree without CPTRAYES and Oberon there would be no help for some horses other than conventional methods.Andalucian has also been very helpful.I think i now have a plan but need to find an expert in Kent first.


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## Brightbay (10 January 2013)

.I worry my WB could be a handful in that when he gets excited or scared he has a tendency to tank of in hand,and i would hate it if he injured anyone.We are familiar with this habit and manage it with certain strategies.The odd thing is he has done this in times when he was lame,on hard and soft ground
		
Click to expand...

Not a hoof expert, but I can comment on the tanking 

It's likely to do with pain and adrenalin.  Let's put it in a human context.  Suppose you wake up one morning with a bad back, and every movement causes you some discomfort - you really don't feel like moving suddenly at all.  But the pain makes you feel a bit grumpy - pain lowers the threshold at which we respond to threats (this is a safety mechanism, since if you're injured you need to allow yourself more time to escape from predators).  So you are a bit reactive - and if someone goes to touch you suddenly, even if it's only to help steady you, you will - despite the fact that you've been trying to move very carefully up to that point - move quickly and suddenly to get out of their way.

The situation with horses is similar.  A horse who's in pain, either because of foot problems, sore back or e.g. ulcers, already has that lowered threshold to react, and is already grumpy and irritable.  So even things that would not normally set them off will cause them to react strongly - they will be spookier, and harder to handle.

If the horse is in less discomfort - e.g if the shoes are exacerbating the pain and you take then off - they will be less reactive, and less likely to tank off on you.

As commented above, horse personalities often change for the better when low level lameness (or, indeed, sore backs or ulcers) is resolved


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## philamena (10 January 2013)

^^^^This this this!


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## Wundahorse (10 January 2013)

He doesn't tank of all the time,just on occasions when something has spooked him,the JCB is out,(which he hates), he is simply overexcited,or the other horses are hooning around.He is a strong boy in hand and very hard to stop.Apparently he picked up the habit as a foal,and as he was gelded late(3) it got worse.He lifted a big woman of the floor once,which shows his strength.Knowing him well i do not believe any of the tanking off is pain related at all.I just don't want to send him for rehab for him to have these little exuberance's.


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (27 March 2013)

Just to let everyone know. Ruby has been at Rockley nearly 3 weeks and progressing well..the changes in her feet are amazing after such a short time period.

Thank you for everyones help and advice.


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## Oberon (27 March 2013)

How you started.......



SARAHSALLYRUBY said:



			I have been told by the vet that I have three options

1. Bute her up and ride her until she is really lame and then PTS
2. Leave her as a field ornament - she is only 6
3. PTS now and claim loss of use
		
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And now.......




SARAHSALLYRUBY said:



			Ruby has been at Rockley nearly 3 weeks and progressing well..the changes in her feet are amazing after such a short time period.

Thank you for everyones help and advice.
		
Click to expand...

I'm liking this update very much 

Much better than the first


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## Diddleydoo (27 March 2013)

Very happy to read she's making progress.


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## AngieandBen (27 March 2013)

I like too


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## sbloom (27 March 2013)

Let's hope those vets are reading - "no hope" to "improvement in 3 weeks" should be turning their worlds upside down...


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## amandap (27 March 2013)

Oberon said:



			How you started.......



And now.......




I'm liking this update very much 

Much better than the first 

Click to expand...

There wasn't much of a choice was there? 

Wishing her continued progress op.


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## ALO (27 March 2013)

Good news


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## SusieT (27 March 2013)

And is she any sounder?


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## cptrayes (27 March 2013)

SusieT said:



			And is she any sounder?
		
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Nic works miracles susie, she doesn't do the impossible in 21 days


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## ChestnutConvert (27 March 2013)

Sorry to hijack but i have been reading quite a bit about Rockley and was pondering about it or the idea of it for my girl. She has OA in 2 fetlocks, not coming right in one, possibility of ligament damage (vet coming to investigate) and i was thinking about whether bare foot would help her.

I can't say that sending her there would be an option at the mo as insurance has run out but any advice from those that have on it themselves? I have the time and surfaces etc but don't know where to begin really.

Any where that i can get info etc? Or would it even be any good to her? I'm going to speak to my farrier too, or one that is happy to go down the bare foot road.


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## Leg_end (27 March 2013)

sbloom said:



			Let's hope those vets are reading - "no hope" to "improvement in 3 weeks" should be turning their worlds upside down...
		
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Since Buddy went to Rockley my vet is now working on his third referral so the word is spreading 

ChesnutConvert I would drop Nic an email, she will be able to give you any pointers and would be able to tell you if she's had any success with horses like yours. I only have good things today about Nic and Rockley, but I'm biased as my horse went there  

If you want info about what to expect as an owner then you can read my blog, link is below.


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (31 March 2013)

Thank you everyone..im soo happy. 

The pics on the blog show a huge difference in her frog and the bruising that has come out is amazing..no wonder she was so sore!!

Im gling to visit in 2 weeks, cant wait to see my baby girl..x


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## Scarlett (31 March 2013)

SARAHSALLYRUBY said:



			Just to let everyone know. Ruby has been at Rockley nearly 3 weeks and progressing well..the changes in her feet are amazing after such a short time period.

Thank you for everyones help and advice.
		
Click to expand...


Just caught saw this update - fantastic! I'm glad it's all looking so much brighter for you and Ruby.

Please keep us updated!


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## Busybusybusy (3 April 2013)

My boy paddy is also at Rockley at the moment - he went there on 23rd March and appears to have taken a liking to Ruby!!


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (6 May 2013)

Hi all

I went to see my girly, Ruby, on saturday and have been told that she can come home at the end of the month!!!

Happy mummy, but very scared!!

x


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## brucea (6 May 2013)

I've actually been to Rockley and spent time with Nic and poo picked every one of her tracks  

It's a great set up and when you come away from Rockley you start looking at the ground you have access to, and how you are using it,  in a completely different way. 

It's a lovely location, and what struck me was that all the horses seemed really calm and happy - contented.


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## monstermunch (6 May 2013)

To cut a long story short my mare was written off as a 5 yr old with colateral ligament damage. I tried everything. Shock wave, IRAP, remedial shoeing, 6 months box rest, 1 year paddock rest, work......and all ended in lameness worse than when I started. I contemplated Rockley for a year but couldn't make my mind up as was dubious. However after 2 years of literally just crying, I decided that sending her to rockley was my last hope and after this if it didn't work I would retire her as a brood mare. 
Hardest decision I ever made but my mare has been sound since the day she came home from Rockley and that was 2 years ago now. She is in full work and back jumping for the first time in 4 years.
If you have no other options definately send her to Rockley. Its the best thing I ever did. I only wish vets recognise the work Nic does.
Give Nic a ring. If she genuinely doesn't think she can help you she will tell you.
Good luck


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## monstermunch (6 May 2013)

oops sorry. I didn't get to the last page. Clearly you sent her to Rockley. So glad she is doing so well


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (6 May 2013)

Evening all, 

Was interesting to hear from monster munch, would you mind sharing your rehab plan for when your mare returned home.
It sounds like she had alot of the same issues as Ruby.
Im soo happy to be having her home but am scared too incase i cant continue to do her justice.
Ive spent the whole time at the yard today assessing surfaces/turnout etc!!
X


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (26 June 2013)

Hi all

Just to let everyone know that mh girly is back and progressing well
We are now hacking out for approx 4.5 miles 5/6 times a week and shes getting to grips with her new feet

And i just have to say.... We had our first canter last night. First time in over 2 years... It was amazing!!


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## TwoStroke (26 June 2013)

SARAHSALLYRUBY said:



			Hi all

Just to let everyone know that mh girly is back and progressing well
We are now hacking out for approx 4.5 miles 5/6 times a week and shes getting to grips with her new feet

And i just have to say.... We had our first canter last night. First time in over 2 years... It was amazing!!
		
Click to expand...

Great news .


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## Brightbay (26 June 2013)

SARAHSALLYRUBY said:



			Hi all

Just to let everyone know that mh girly is back and progressing well
We are now hacking out for approx 4.5 miles 5/6 times a week and shes getting to grips with her new feet

And i just have to say.... We had our first canter last night. First time in over 2 years... It was amazing!!
		
Click to expand...

Great to hear   I followed her progress through Nic's reports, glad to know you and Ruby are having a good time together again, and that she has lovely shiny "new" feet


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (26 June 2013)

She has her own unique jimmy choo's now!!


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## LittleBlackMule (26 June 2013)

How did your vet take the news that the horse they wrote off is now good as new?


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (26 June 2013)

They havent seen her yet, altho they are coming out to xray my other mare next thurs so i may just have to show her off!!
Its the vet who said PTS that is coming out too!!!!!


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## LittleBlackMule (26 June 2013)

Well that vet needs educating, and you now have the perfect way to do it!


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## SARAHSALLYRUBY (26 June 2013)

Im quite looking forward to it now!!!
Big thank you to all who supported me and helped me make the right decisions


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