# Rabbit(s) a bit off it?



## Beth206 (1 December 2017)

Hi All,

I am quite new to rabbit ownership - I rescued a couple of 2yo dutch bunnies (doe & a buck) from the Blue cross at the beginning of 2016. Last month I noticed my buck didn't seem happy and there was a lot of nuggets been left over. Took them both to the vets and they were both checked over and turned out his teeth were in a bad way, vet operated and his has been fine since. They were both back at the vets last week having their annual check up and vaccinations, vet was happy with both of them, weight and health wise. 

This week I have noticed nuggets been left over again, but they both seem happy when I give them kale and herbal forage and all is eaten by both of them. I haven't noticed much in terms of changes in their behaviour; my doe is very active and first out in the run every morning, always into everything whereas my buck has always been very reserved, mostly sits hunched up, often reluctant to come and see what's going (unless kale is involved)and to be handled but happy when they are left to their own devices.

They are kept outside at all times and hutch is covered with a hutch hugger on a night. Their hutch is connected to a run and they are out all day so no changes to their routine to have upset them. 

Am I best just to keep an eye on them over the weekend and see how they get on? My partner used to breed rabbits as a child and he said they are probably cold (I disagree) but was wondering about bringing them in for a couple of days to keep a closer eye on them but really don't want to distress them as they weren't well kept before I got them and they get very nervy in a different environment.


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## splashgirl45 (1 December 2017)

im not a rabbit expert but if your partner thinks they are cold can you put more hay in their hutch so they can snuggle up..and have plenty of food to keep them warm....


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## webble (1 December 2017)

Are they getting enough hay to eat, this is essential for teeth and tummy. Ideally they should be eating around a handfull of pelletts per rabbit per day and the rest should be made up of leafy green veg and hay. This forum will be helpful http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/


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## Beth206 (1 December 2017)

Thanks for your reply SG. They do have a lot of hay already (both in their hutch and in their hidey house in the run) and I do refill every couple of days. Wonder if they are eating that much hay they aren't particularly hungry for their nuggets? They only have kale on a night which they tuck into straight away.

Thanks for the link Webble - They have hay in their hutch, hidey house and a hay rack so there is plenty available and they always seem to be munching. I also give them a herbal forage which is dried dandelion and various flowers which they love. Maybe I have been giving too many pellets - I used to give two handfuls in a morning and two on a night but they haven't been needing topping up on a night recently hence the worry. And then a big handful of kale on an evening which is always gone by morning.


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## Widgeon (1 December 2017)

I've had rabbits since I was a teenager and if they're in a hutch at night they are fairly unlikely to be cold, unless they're old - my current two (sisters, Dutch sort of shape and size but ginger, and about 6 years old) are quite happy in bed in their shed right down to below freezing outside. I would be surprised though if they are leaving nuggets; I haven't had a rabbit who would eat hay in preference to nuggets, they behave like little addicts when I get the nugget bucket out. However if he is still eating hay and dandelion, that means his stomach and gut are still working - it's when they stop eating altogether that you have an emergency. It would also suggest to me that his teeth are ok, because hay is typically what they struggle with when they're starting a problem with their teeth.

It sounds like your doe is ok but the buck is not terribly happy; if you're worried about him it probably won't do any harm to bring them inside (can you get a big foldable run for them inside? I have one from Pets at Home for when they're in on bonfire night, etc) and keep a closer eye on them in a quiet room (ideally with a lino floor...!). My two have got used to being brought in - they weren't keen at first but have got used to it. It might also help you identify any bullying - it's always possible (not being a rabbit behaviorist I don't know how likely it is) that the doe is more dominant and he's being bullied. 

If you're still really worried (and can afford it), you could always take him back to the vet for some more checks - I know how worrying rabbits can be because they can go downhill so fast. 

The last thing (promise) is that there may be something outside bothering him. One of mine is a stresshead and gets gut impactions occasionally; we don't know why but I wonder if it's related to something coming into the garden, a cat maybe, that is bothering her. She went through a bad phase a couple of years ago when it happened twice in as many months. Other rabbit was totally fine, and it hasn't happened for a long time now. No change to their diet, routine, etc. If that's the case then bringing them in for a bit and letting them settle down inside might remove the problem, so then at least you'd know it's probably something environmental.

Sorry for the long post, I hope you get to the bottom of this or he just perks up soon. Do let us know how he's doing.


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## js1006 (1 December 2017)

Just to mention quickly, if you do have to bring them in, make sure you don't heat their room and open the windows a bit if possible.  They will be used to cold temperatures outside and have a corresponding thick coat so they'll easily overheat in the warmer indoor temperatures.  And if you do have them in for a while they'll start to shed their winter coat so you'll not be able to put them back out again until spring.  Alternatively you could try a snugglesafe and fleece blankets in their hutch.

Only 1 out of my 5 have ever really been into human company, but all of them go crazy for their pellets (1eggcup each a day).  If this is normal behaviour for your buck then he may simply be sleeping, rabbits are crepuscular and so not normally active during the day (hence why 24 hour access to their run is important).


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## Beth206 (1 December 2017)

Thanks JS and Widgeon for your great responses. 

I am surprised about the nuggets too as they both usually love them. Although I have realised from doing my research I do feed them too many nuggets which I am going to address as of now. There are lots of droppings in their litter tray, when he stopped eating before there was a significant reduction which caused alarm bells. I'm really sure it's not teeth related as he had surgery on them last month and only had a check up last week so I would really be surprised. 

I am just a bit loathed to keep them inside - after surgery they were in for a couple of nights - I have to keep them shut in a cage in the spare bedroom as I have two dogs as well - and they didn't seem very happy. They weren't eating much and spent their time huddled in the corner together and I felt awful. I did keep the room cool however as I know how susceptible they are to over heating. 

I think I will see how they get on over the weekend, it's supposed to be a little warmer too - I'm a bit reluctant to go back to the vets at the moment as they have cost me a small fortune in vets bills recently with his surgery and both their injections and check ups. But of course, I will if I feel he isn't perking up. I just bought them some new balls, a hay puzzle and a sort of forage garden which I dropped off at home in my lunch. He came out to inspect them and gave them a bit of a nudge then went back in his hutch (typical male!) 

They do have access to their run from 7am-10pm (sometimes later) but I worry leaving them out over night because of fox's 

I will keep a close eye on them and keep you posted. Thanks so much!


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## Widgeon (1 December 2017)

js1006 said:



			Just to mention quickly, if you do have to bring them in, make sure you don't heat their room and open the windows a bit if possible.  They will be used to cold temperatures outside and have a corresponding thick coat so they'll easily overheat in the warmer indoor temperatures.  And if you do have them in for a while they'll start to shed their winter coat so you'll not be able to put them back out again until spring.  Alternatively you could try a snugglesafe and fleece blankets in their hutch.

Only 1 out of my 5 have ever really been into human company, but all of them go crazy for their pellets (1eggcup each a day).  If this is normal behaviour for your buck then he may simply be sleeping, rabbits are crepuscular and so not normally active during the day (hence why 24 hour access to their run is important).
		
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Ooh yes good point, radiators off!


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## Beth206 (1 December 2017)

I have just been out checking on them - taken a couple of pics. 







I'm sure you can tell which one is my buck! I have just thrown in some kale and he is happily munching so glad to see he is definitely eating. Think I am going to bring them in tonight as we looks to be shaking a little bit when he is sat. He is a bit smaller and does weigh less than my doe so wondering if he is maybe struggling a bit with the weather and she is hogging most of the food maybe? 







Happy with his kale!


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## Zero00000 (1 December 2017)

Could be the beginning of statis, 
What are his poops like? (Smaller than usual ect) 
Could be teeth again, some buns need regular checks and dental work.

If you going to bring them in prepare to keep them in all winter, it is far to cold at the moment to be chopping and changing, they can cope perfectly fine in this weather (and much colder) 
The sudden temp change either way can be fatal, I've taken my poorly buns inside for a few hours and a run around and put them back out with extra straw/hay and a snugglesafe heat pad.

Keep feeding kale and other fresh yummies to make sure he is eating and keeping him gut moving.

Hope he feels better soon


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## Zero00000 (1 December 2017)

Just seen your reply about shivering, rabbits can shiver when in pain, not necessarily that he is cold.


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## Beth206 (1 December 2017)

Thanks for the reply zero - will look into statis not heard about it before. I keep checking and droppings seem normal. 
I am really reluctant to bring in. They do have lots of hay in their bed to keep warm and they are often snuggled up together. 

Definitely going to keep on the kale to keep things moving. Will see how he is over night and my vets are open on a Saturday so may book an appointment tomorrow. 

I think he is shaky, but have been trying to catch them sitting together so I can compare. Kicking myself for throwing away my metacam after he had his surgery!


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## Zero00000 (2 December 2017)

Hope he is feeling better this morning


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## Beth206 (2 December 2017)

Zero00000 said:



			Hope he is feeling better this morning
		
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He seems a lot better today thanks. Quiet this morning, but was playing in the dig pit eating herbs. Just put them away for the night and he was badgering for food and seems like his usual self. 

Has anyone given their buns infacol before for gas? After the stasis comment I started doing my research and a lot of people recomended giving a dose of infacol every hour to see if the rabbit improved before taking to the vets. I went to buy some this morning but haven't used it as he seems loads better and to be honest was a bit scared to use it but thought it might be handy to have going forward.


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## Widgeon (6 December 2017)

Beth206 said:



			Has anyone given their buns infacol before for gas?.
		
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Really glad to see he was getting better, I hope he's continued to improve and is back to normal now.

My two get tiny doses of Metacam and Emeprid (oral solution) by syringe if I think one of them is starting to look a bit unhappy and has stopped eating. We went through a phase when they both had the beginnings of stasis a couple of times within a year, once quite badly (had to nurse her and feed her water and baby food through a syringe), so after a couple of urgent morning trips to the vet, the vet sold me little bottles of both drugs with instructions on how much to give, on the basis that it's much better to catch it early with one dose than potentially have it turn into a real problem. I used it a couple of times and haven't needed it for ages (which is good because it will be out of date by now!), but if you are worried and it happens again it might be worth asking your vet whether they think it might be helpful for you to have some. 

The Metacam relieves pain and the Emeprid helps stimulate their gut - neither of my two seem to have any adverse reactions to either, and based on my observations I think it did work to head off problems before they get too bad. I'm normally not a fan of pre-emptive drugs but having previously seen how fast a bunny can go downhill and die (with very few symptoms too), I would rather err on the side of caution!

It sounds like your rabbit was not too bad, but maybe worth remembering in future. I figured forums are for sharing potentially useful information, so there's my experience.


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