# Do you starve your dog one day a week?



## Fii (16 August 2013)

If so why, what is the reasoning behind this?


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## ladyt25 (16 August 2013)

God no! Why would anyone? I had to do the whole 'starving' over night a while back in case my dog needed GA the next day. She was not amused!!! 

Mine has her routine and is very food driven, I think it'd be very hard to starve her and she'd probably find something to eat anyway! She's constantly on the hunt for food!


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## Elsiecat (16 August 2013)

Nope.
However when I was temporarily in charge of a family members morbidly obese dog I gave him half feeds two days a week and no food at all one morning a week. 
I wouldn't starve for one whole day but I don't see a problem in withholding some food along with moderate exercise to a dog in need of slimming!


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## Alec Swan (16 August 2013)

Most certainly I do.  Dogs which are in hard work,  or are growing puppies or bitches in pup would be fed accordingly,  but every other dog has Sunday off.

OK,  so they're not dogs,  but in the wild and in captivity too,  boa-constrictors tend to feed and be fed about once a month.  Canines,  and that includes Vulpine and Wolves too,  generally only eat for 3 or 4 days in any week,  and for our dogs which don't have to work for a living,  an empty stomach for 24 hours is beneficial to them,  I feel.

This feeding of dogs several times a day is of no benefit,  and despite what many will claim (mostly those who sell the food!),  it doesn't give the animals gut a chance to shrink.

Alec.


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## planete (17 August 2013)

I don't.  Looking after mostly rescue dogs I feel establishing a totally predictable routine is the best way to make them feel secure and settled.  I make sure they remain healthily lean and fit by providing them with enough exercise and the right amount of food.

I am not convinced starving for a day is beneficial and the 'wild' argument cannot be used only for eating patterns and not for exercise patterns as predators in the wild hunt and eat as much as they can when they are successful.  They then digest the food and hunt again when they feel hungry.  If we let our dogs follow this pattern, we should only exercise them when they have digested the huge amount of food they would have put away after an ad lib feed.  So if you want to follow the 'wild' model, your dogs will laze about digesting for a few days, then have hard exercise, then eat as much as they can, then rest a few days...


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## hobo (17 August 2013)

No because he would slash his wrists!!


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## JillA (17 August 2013)

I used to (fast, not starve, sounds better!) my dog based on a book by Juliette De Bairacly (sp?) Levy who propounded natural diets and remedies many decades ago. She suggested that the body couldn't cope with battling disease while digesting food, and it would enable the system to cleanse itself. When I got him, as a rescue, in the late '60s he had distemper and her methods enabled him to recover and live until he succumbed to cancer at the age of around 10. I myself fasted on the same day BTW!
Dogs have evolved, like a lot of carnivorous predators, to maybe only eat every two or three days, whenever they managed to kill prey. Fasting for them isn't as onerous (or dangerous to health) as it is for a grazing animal who has evolved to trickle feed and not have an empty system.


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## fankino04 (17 August 2013)

Before we got our second dog we would give tay her daily allowance in the morning and just leave it for her to help herself to and there were often times probably more than once a week where she chose not to eat or ate so little we didnt notice but I wouldnt dream of inflicting a day on her where she didnt have access to food.


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## sarahann1 (17 August 2013)

Nope, I feed mine ad-lib.


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## bonny (17 August 2013)

I have friends with great danes that do this.....I think it's more common with big dogs that don't eat well with the reasoning that they will eat better if kept on the hungry side.


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## AdorableAlice (17 August 2013)

All our working terriers were starved the day before hunting.  The reason being a full terrier cannot work effectively or safely to ground.


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## noodle_ (17 August 2013)

yes

last night as i forgotvto feed them 




but no.............i dont!! they get 2 meals a day - if they dont eat it when it goes down they go hungry


never had a dog that is a fussy eater or refused food  which is handy as i know when they are ill




people bug me who leave the dog's food down all day and let them pick!.......!!! lol


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## Dry Rot (17 August 2013)

When a dog is kept short of food it first uses glycogen in the liver for energy. Then it utilises body fat. If it is starved further, it will begin to lose muscle. Eventually, starvation will kill it. Canids are mostly opportunistic scavengers though I love the romantic notion  that wild canids hunt down their prey, then gorge and sleep it off! 

I've never seen any dog harmed by missing a meal, but then I've never kept a pet dog. Pet dogs soon learn to eat out of habit and put what they don't need onto their backs. Britain has a serious obesity problem in pets, not just dogs.

On the other hand, I am delighted to see that allowing a dog to become obese is now recognised as cruelty and a criminal offence! Fasting? That is what dogs are designed to do and it won't hurt them one bit.


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## Dizzydancer (17 August 2013)

No i don't my lab can't go more than 12hours before he gets hungry. He maybe is fed slightly too little but he is lean and in working condition. He weighs in at 24kilos and is pure muscle. I wouldn't have him any other way. 
I guess if i fed his weekly allowance in bigger portions he could cope with  a day off. 
When in kennel he picks at his breakfast over an hour as its his entertainment. But his tea goes in seconds!


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## twiggy2 (17 August 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			OK,  so they're not dogs,  but in the wild and in captivity too,  boa-constrictors tend to feed and be fed about once a month.  Canines,  and that includes Vulpine and Wolves too,  generally only eat for 3 or 4 days in any week,  and for our dogs which don't have to work for a living,  an empty stomach for 24 hours is beneficial to them,  I feel.

This feeding of dogs several times a day is of no benefit,  and despite what many will claim (mostly those who sell the food!),  it doesn't give the animals gut a chance to shrink.

Alec.
		
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Alec your responses are usually well argued however I fail to see what boa-constrictors feeding patterns have to do with feeding patterns of dogs as one is warm blooded and the other cold so their digestive system and working bare no resemblance to each other.

yes you are right wild canines do usually have days where they do not eat, when the eat they gorge and hopefully peoples pet dogs do not, so to fast a dog for a day a week because that is what people feel wild canines do is all a bit out of sink for me. if people put down whole carcasses (to allow them to choose the parts they wish to eat) for a pack of dogs to consume giving them enough to eat at will for 2-3 days then i would have no problem with fasting for a day after the glut but that is not in reality how domesticated dogs are feed so not a true like for like way of feeding


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## Alec Swan (17 August 2013)

twiggy2 said:



			Alec ....... however I fail to see what boa-constrictors feeding patterns have to do with feeding patterns of dogs as one is warm blooded and the other cold so their digestive system and working bare no resemblance to each other.

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I'll admit that I did wonder,  after I'd posted,  if someone would ask what've snakes got to do with dogs! 

What I'd intended to convey,  and failed to do,  was that taking one creature to an extreme,  the boa-constrictor,  most meat eating creatures (and that would include humans),  actually benefit from giving their digestive system a rest,  for a day.  

I'm also not entirely convinced that wild or feral living carnivores actually do gorge themselves,  not on a regular basis anyway.  The opportunity probably wouldn't be there to do so,  on a regular basis.  

It is strange though,  that as horses,  so our domesticated canines come in many forms of _Breed_,  and though there are no,  or very few,  original wild horses or dogs,  both animals continue to breed true to their own canine and equine ancestry.  Behaviour patterns seem to remain in place,  too.

Anyway,  yes you're right,  it probably didn't make for much sense! 

Alec.


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## SusieT (17 August 2013)

Since the reason they 'fast' is due to opportunity i.e. prey not being available easily (wild dogs need to preserve strength/hunt when they have energy but not waste energy hunting every day) not due to a desire/evolution it seems rather stupid to do it rather than feed a sensible diet.


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## Milanesa (17 August 2013)

I'd never do this to a dog of mine. You can't just not feed them one day a week. I cannot see how that would be of any benefit to the dog. In the wild it's different as they would gorge then not be hungry due to this. These are domesticated pets being given rationed food.


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## twiggy2 (17 August 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			I'll admit that I did wonder,  after I'd posted,  if someone would ask what've snakes got to do with dogs! 

What I'd intended to convey,  and failed to do,  was that taking one creature to an extreme,  the boa-constrictor,  most meat eating creatures (and that would include humans),  actually benefit from giving their digestive system a rest,  for a day.  

I'm also not entirely convinced that wild or feral living carnivores actually do gorge themselves,  not on a regular basis anyway.  The opportunity probably wouldn't be there to do so,  on a regular basis.  

It is strange though,  that as horses,  so our domesticated canines come in many forms of _Breed_,  and though there are no,  or very few,  original wild horses or dogs,  both animals continue to breed true to their own canine and equine ancestry.  Behaviour patterns seem to remain in place,  too.

Anyway,  yes you're right,  it probably didn't make for much sense! 

Alec.
		
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surely they gorge every time they have a kill if they did not they would risk losing valuable food to opportunist feeders?


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## Alec Swan (17 August 2013)

twiggy2 said:



			surely they gorge every time they have a kill if they did not they would risk losing valuable food to opportunist feeders?
		
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Yes,  except that it's the dogs which are the opportunist feeders,  mostly.  It's all hypothetical because we don't have packs of feral dogs living by their wits.  If we did,  then as a pack they'd start to prey on livestock, as perhaps wolves do,  and they'd pay the price.  Man would kill them.

I also suspect that wild dogs,  wolves,  hyenas and coyotes,  and all pack living carnivores,  tend to have a large part of their diet which is made up,  not of large creatures which would be sustaining,  and allow them to gorge,  but of tiny creatures,  even down to beetles and worms,  but probably the very young of ground nesting game birds,  the young of rabbits,  and even fruit when it's available.  The smaller carnivores wouldn't live as a pride of lions,  for instance,  because they wouldn't have the numbers or the strength to hold and kill a large beast.

This has wandered away from the question of withholding food from our dogs,  on a regular basis.  However we've progressed in our breeding of dogs,  and regardless of the breed,  they still manage to retain the basic characteristics of a canine,  with the same metabolism and physiology.  As an aside,  for perhaps as long as we've bred dogs,  we've bred sheep,  and our technically and "perfectly" developed sheep,  regardless of their origin or breed,  are exactly the same creatures as their pure bred but wild cousins.  They're different shapes and colours,  but still mountain living animals.

I believe that withholding food from a dog which isn't reliant upon a daily supply of energy providing food,  and on a 1 in 7-10 day basis,  to be beneficial to the animal,  because were he a wild animal,  then there would be those days when he would eat nothing.  I'm not saying that I'm right,  I'm saying that that's what I believe!

Alec.


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## dunthing (18 August 2013)

Many years ago, I read a book which was written by Winston Churchill's vet. He advocated starving dogs for one day a week but allowing them access to the "herb garden" where they were allowed to browse and choose what they wanted to eat. Churchill had a small poodle which was fed chocolate and was obese. The vet took it in for a few weeks and lectured Churchill on the error of his ways. The dog went home very much slimmer and healthier


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## Dry Rot (18 August 2013)

dunthing said:



			Many years ago, I read a book which was written by Winston Churchill's vet. He advocated starving dogs for one day a week but allowing them access to the "herb garden" where they were allowed to browse and choose what they wanted to eat. Churchill had a small poodle which was fed chocolate and was obese. The vet took it in for a few weeks and lectured Churchill on the error of his ways. The dog went home very much slimmer and healthier
		
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It wouldn't have done Winston much harm to have had the occasional day fasting, either!<vbg>


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## PucciNPoni (18 August 2013)

No way - to me that's a barbaric treatment for a pet dog.  No, mine aren't working dogs and maybe for working beasts it's different.  

I have an ageing border terrier who is fed twice a day and if he's not he goes a bit hypo and vomits bile.  I have a poodle who will happily self starve himself a day or two - but will generally pick at his food on those days rather than eat nothing.  While the border is at the top end of his correct weight range, he's far from having a weight "problem".  My poodle is on the lower end of the weight range.  I see no reason to want to with hold food unless it's for the purpose of anaesthetic or possibly to keep them a bit hungry (so that treats/positive reinforcement are more effective).  But who am I kidding - if I'm using treats, they're happy to get them regardless of what they've had to eat previously -- as to them a treat IS a treat rather than an expectation.


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## NinjaPony (18 August 2013)

No. I have a 4 month old phalene, she is fed 3 times a day as she has a small stomach and they can be prone to low blood sugar. Phalenes (drop eared papillons) are small dogs, bred as companions to royalty. There is no need to starve them one day a week, it wouldn't be healthy or suitable for dogs that have been companions to royalty for 600 years, not working in the field. I think she would stage a protest if I withheld food!


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## Alexart (18 August 2013)

Mine get a day off food twice a month - they get raw bones from the butcher instead and a few eggs as well - just gives their gut a rest I think and does them no harm at all and is what their bodies were designed for.  I'd only do it for a dog that isn't a working animal or isn't lactating/pregnant obviously as otherwise they'd need the calories, but for an animal that lives in a warm centrally heated environment and does nothing they certainly won't starve if not fed for a few days a month regardless of breed!!


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## Jesstickle (18 August 2013)

I wonder if the 5:2 diet which seems to be good for people is also good for dogs?


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## Fii (18 August 2013)

Thanks every one for the replies, i think (without offending anyone) this may be an old fashioned view. I am still not sure why their guts need a rest though!


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## Fii (18 August 2013)

sarahann1 said:



			Nope, I feed mine ad-lib.
		
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Ad-lib??  My dogs would explode!!  :O

Mine have one meal a day (evening), they both eat until finished, never leave a thing, they also have a couple  of dog biscuits in the morning! Neither of them carry any excess weight.


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## CorvusCorax (19 August 2013)

Nope but I create a strong link between food and work. 
Luckily he has never decided not to work, so he always eats!!
For instance, he did a very long track today, which had all his daily food allowance on it. 
He's also a pet and sleeps in the house 

I don't think it will kill a dog to skip a meal a day every once in a while. I know people who do it and their dogs look well.


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## PucciNPoni (19 August 2013)

I'm sure it wouldn't kill them as you say CC, but why would you WANT to for your average pet dog?  I have never heard of this giving the digestive system a rest idea til I came to the UK and started reading on these posts.  

However I do like the idea of linking food and work - I think THAT is a very sound idea.


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## CorvusCorax (19 August 2013)

For any number of reasons (I think the idea has been around for a long time, judging by the average age of people I know who do it ) I like the idea of a dog who's world doesn't collapse if it doesn't get a meal at a certain time every day, for whatever reason (medical procedure, long journey, competition, family emergency, serious obesity, a gorging episode etc) 

I've seen a dog not so motivated as mine, not eat for a couple of days. He knew how to get the food, what to do, he just decided he couldn't be bothered to do it. All he had to do was pootle along with his nose on the ground and look for it. His choice! He's retired now!


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## Leo Walker (19 August 2013)

I have a whippet and a whippety lurcher. If I tried to starve them, they would just steal food from where ever they could. They are natural born thieves and I am locked in a constant battle of wills over theft!  My young dog can get up on the kitchen work top and open the cupboards if the fancy takes him 

I do raw feed though and vary the amounts so they have feast days and famine days. The last 2 days they have had a lot of food, probably 3 times the recommended amount and somewhere around 1kg each a day, and today they've had hardly anything, probably a 100gms, whereas a normal amount for them would be 500gms. I also "work" them harder than most pet dogs, and they are kept racing fit. Over the weekend they have done 3 hours of hill walking both days, hence the extra food. Today they had a half an hour sprint walk just to stretch their muscles out.

They have superfast metabolisms, they can lose and gain weight over night, but by varying the amounts, and feeding by eye and "work" done they both stay at 15kgs most of which is solid muscle as they dont have an ounce of fat. Terribly skinny by most peoples standards, absolutely spot on by mine


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## soot (19 August 2013)

Only if we all forget - i.e. humans and dog - usually this would occur because we've been on very long walk/run in the afternoon and then everyone has fallen asleep by dinner time. Dog never wakes us up for food. If sleeping occurs before eating, then she doesn't eat. But neither do we, so I assume dog just think we are pretty useless humans who occasionally fail to scavenge enough food ...


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## Dry Rot (19 August 2013)

I've always fed my animals (not just dogs!) according to their condition and certainly not by rote. I sometimes wonder why I feed the GSD at all. Everyone comments on her lovely shiny coat! That's what comes of nicking hens' eggs! She won't get fed today either. That rabbit she caught should be more than enough -- and I will have to suffer the resultant farting! AGAIN!

BTW, I do understand why an owner would be reluctant to fast a miniature pet dog. But all the dogs I see walking through town look as if they could comfortably cope with a week's fasting, let alone a day.

Has anyone ever heard of fasting, even for a few days, killing a healthy dog in good condition? On the other hand, there are plenty of diseases caused by obesity. I once lost a dog on the hills of Morayshire for over a week. When I got her back, almost where I lost her, she was in perfect condition. It was March and there was snow on the ground. God knows what she had been living on, but she had not only survived but flourished! Dogs are tougher than most would believe.


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## Cinnamontoast (19 August 2013)

Lordy, no, Zak wouldn't stand for it! He started pestering me at 5.20 today, so I suspect the kennels were feeding them early. He knows when it's 6pm and there's no rest til he's fed! My lot are all lean, big dog too much so after 12 days in kennels. 

If they needed a digestive rest due to a tricky tummy, they get a resting diet of easy to digest food, rarely starved unless they're really sick.

They're fed by eye but at the same time. They're not interested particularly in food when out and are trained that finding the dummy is the reward as opposed to finding food, although I love the idea.


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## Leo Walker (19 August 2013)

Dry Rot said:



			I once lost a dog on the hills of Morayshire for over a week. When I got her back, almost where I lost her, she was in perfect condition. It was March and there was snow on the ground. God knows what she had been living on, but she had not only survived but flourished! Dogs are tougher than most would believe.
		
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My 2 would be fine as well I reckon. I often say if theres some sort of apocalyptic type event, Walking Dead style, then my 2 would get by much better than me!


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