# Heart Bar Shoes



## MyLuckyStar (21 March 2013)

Hi all

Please tell me everything you know

I've been advised to have them fitted on my mare but on the fronts only.


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## Kraft (21 March 2013)

My horse (TB) has heart bars on, the reasoning behind them is to lift the heel and distirbute the weight over the whole foot rather than just around the edge.

They are more expensive but definatly worth trying. My boy wears them all the time as he is eventing and loads his weight through the inside of his feet which can lead to bruising and strains. 

I believe (but please dont quote me on it) but sometimes you can get away with them just having them on a few times before being shod with normal shoes again. I guess it depends on the resoning behind him having them on in the first place. 

Hope this helps, im sure there will be websites out there which will explain in detail


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## touchstone (21 March 2013)

I had heartbars on my mare for a short time after mild laminitis.  I didn't like the changes they created in her foot and subsequently went barefoot with her, which she still is to this day.


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## Meowy Catkin (21 March 2013)

I would also take the shoes off, rather than put HB's on.


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## LucyPriory (21 March 2013)

Can cause a lot of damage which frequently doesn't reveal itself until further down the road.


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## MyLuckyStar (21 March 2013)

Thanks all

She has had laminitis and also has cushings. She has been shod regularly for the past 10 years or so (was barefoot before) but as she is flat footed and used to been shod the vet has suggested them been put on


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## charliejet (21 March 2013)

Dont get me wrong I am all for barefoot, but I do think maybe posters should get the whole story before jumping in and saying 'take the horse barefoot'.

Laminitis and Cushings may mean that the horse could be very sore without support and may not at this point in time be able to go barefoot?

My horse has metabolic issues that arent fully under control and has just had to have front shoes put back on after a spell barefoot.  The shoes will come off again when things are more settled.


I do agree that it is not a good idea to rely on remedial shoes and if possible when the horse is more comfortable it may be an idea to look at removing them and letting the feet recover some rather than continuing to shoe with them and missing other problems.

OP hope your horse improves.


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## Salcey (21 March 2013)

My boy had them on and made absolutely no difference.  He's now bare at the front.


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## LucyPriory (21 March 2013)

MyLuckyStar said:



			Thanks all

She has had laminitis and also has cushings. She has been shod regularly for the past 10 years or so (was barefoot before) but as she is flat footed and used to been shod the vet has suggested them been put on
		
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A horse with Cushings often develops laminitis and flat feet but this should resolve once the Cushings is brought under control, providing all other factors are satisfactory.

Peripheral loading of a laminitic foot can have negative consequences.  The heart bar is used to 'support'.  But as the foot grows the whole lot shifts so is no longer in position.  Heart bars also have negative consequences which are rarely adequately explained.  Not least is the damage done to the caudal hoof.

I know they are used a lot and I completely understand how emotive this subject is.  I do really worry that they are put on without owners being really brought up to speed with all the pros and cons.  And that worry is driven by having to deal with hooves having been badly damaged and the owners having had no idea what was going on under the shoe.


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## MyLuckyStar (21 March 2013)

I've spoken to my farrier and he is going to speak to my vet. I'm very lucky that I have a farrier that will not do anything that isn't 100% nececssary and won't shoe a horse that doesn't need it.


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## KatB (21 March 2013)

It's all very well having "anti shoe" attitudes, but sometimes for short term and fitted correctly heartbars/eggbars can be very beneficial for some horses and support areas to make the horse more comfortable. If this is combined with steps to improve the health long term, there is no issues 

MLS, good luck with it


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## Andalucian (21 March 2013)

charliejet said:



			Dont get me wrong I am all for barefoot, but I do think maybe posters should get the whole story before jumping in and saying 'take the horse barefoot'
		
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Fair enough when talking normal shoeing, but heart bar shoes cause incredible damage to the feet, often irreparable sadly.  The only reason I'd ever support their use is when you have a broken bone in a foot.


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## charliejet (21 March 2013)

Fair enough, I admit I know nothing about heart bars 

If you had to shoe a lami cushings horse for short term support what type of shoe would you use / would be better?


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## Always Henesy (21 March 2013)

I would not touch heart bar shoes.


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## MyLuckyStar (21 March 2013)

Always Henesy said:



			I would not touch heart bar shoes.
		
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What would you suggest as an alternative?

The vet has suggested these as my mare is foot sore due to been so flat footed, she also has little heel on the backs. She has always had 'normal' shoes on but because of the laminitis and Cushing's they've said to get heart bars put on to support her feet


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## LucyPriory (21 March 2013)

charliejet said:



			Fair enough, I admit I know nothing about heart bars 

If you had to shoe a lami cushings horse for short term support what type of shoe would you use / would be better?
		
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First of all really important to understand what is meant by 'support'.  If you ask around you might find you get a lot of answers.  I recommend that those answers are then applied to hoof anatomy.  

I have yet to find anything that offers better support to a hoof than the ground, but not all ground is created equal.  Hooves which are compromised eg laminitic, are best 'supported' by conformable surfaces such as deep shavings beds or pea gravel or similar .  Hard, unyielding surfaces such as concrete can be very uncomfortable.

So far the only hoof protection that I am aware of that can in anyway mimic the support offered by conformable ground surfaces is called a 'boot with pads'.  Some will argue for hoof wraps, but these can cause problems too and have recently been put into the category of 'shoe'.


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## mischamoo (21 March 2013)

Heart bar shoes have been fantastic in helping to heal a pedal bone fracture in my boy's foot (he has fronts only) and provide a great level of support to him but I certainly don't intend to keep him on them permanently and agree they are only best used for helping with broken bones in feet.


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## pinklilly (21 March 2013)

My horse detested the heart bars in front, they made his legs swell and caused lameness.  They seem to cause a lot more trauma to the foot when pulled off in the field.


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## Kat (21 March 2013)

What about imprints as an alternative to discuss with the vet and farrier?  

I was told to have heart bars by the vet but my farrier has been happy for my mare to stay bare with boots for hacking.


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## A Guilding (21 March 2013)

Heart bars are a very complex subject. There has been some good insight from some of the posts so far.
This is my take on them, firstly they are only as good as the person applying   them. Poorly applied they will agrivate conditions. Next the diagnosis must be very precise and the rationale for there fitting to be watertight. If they are being fitted for non specific heel pain then they could well be putting pressure on the inflamed area and no one will know! except the horse wont improve or will get worse (bursitis or tendon lesions on the deep digital flexor tendon).

Laminitis follows different rules and the application of the heart bars is also never straight forward. Alot depends on the reason for the discomfort and the position of the pedal bone, again poorly applied they will cripple a horse.

As for P3 fractures again before I chose a heart bar there are some positions of the fracture that the heart bar would have no effect and any bar shoe with adequate clips would fix easily. A saggital fracture may well benefit from one.

So as some vet clinics and farriers use them as a cure all then they need to be well skilled in x-ray reading and fitting of the shoes.

Me I rarely use them.

Ps support is what I do for needy friends, it has no place as a descriptive term in farriery. Its a phrase used by people who do not fully understand the purpose of the ancillery features of the shoe.


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## LucyPriory (21 March 2013)

A Guilding said:



			Heart bars are a very complex subject. There has been some good insight from some of the posts so far.
This is my take on them, firstly they are only as good as the person applying   them. Poorly applied they will agrivate conditions. Next the diagnosis must be very precise and the rationale for there fitting to be watertight. If they are being fitted for non specific heel pain then they could well be putting pressure on the inflamed area and no one will know! except the horse wont improve or will get worse (bursitis or tendon lesions on the deep digital flexor tendon).

Laminitis follows different rules and the application of the heart bars is also never straight forward. Alot depends on the reason for the discomfort and the position of the pedal bone, again poorly applied they will cripple a horse.

As for P3 fractures again before I chose a heart bar there are some positions of the fracture that the heart bar would have no effect and any bar shoe with adequate clips would fix easily. A saggital fracture may well benefit from one.

So as some vet clinics and farriers use them as a cure all then they need to be well skilled in x-ray reading and fitting of the shoes.

Me I rarely use them.

Ps support is what I do for needy friends, it has no place as a descriptive term in farriery. Its a phrase used by people who do not fully understand the purpose of the ancillery features of the shoe.
		
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Hear hear!


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## JEZA (21 March 2013)

Well said A Guilding. 
I was advised to use them with box rest on my pony with newly diagnosed equine metabolic syndrome and serious laminitis. She had been lame most of the time for 8 months, and on and off alot before that.
I took the shoes off (she had always been shod) , (dropped soles rotated pedal bone etc) bought a muzzle, turned her out, bought a rasp. That was a year ago. I do her little bit of trimming myself and the only time she has been lame is when the farrier "checked" my work!!! He "tidied her feet" so she was lame for 3 weeks!!
No shoes, ever again for her, and I would never entertain heart bars for any of mine in any instance.


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## A Guilding (21 March 2013)

JEZA said:



			Well said A Guilding. 
I was advised to use them with box rest on my pony with newly diagnosed equine metabolic syndrome and serious laminitis. She had been lame most of the time for 8 months, and on and off alot before that.
I took the shoes off (she had always been shod) , (dropped soles rotated pedal bone etc) bought a muzzle, turned her out, bought a rasp. That was a year ago. I do her little bit of trimming myself and the only time she has been lame is when the farrier "checked" my work!!! He "tidied her feet" so she was lame for 3 weeks!!
No shoes, ever again for her, and I would never entertain heart bars for any of mine in any instance.
		
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I am a farrier!


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## LucyPriory (21 March 2013)

A Guilding said:



			I am a farrier!
		
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We guessed that


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## amandap (21 March 2013)

Lol!


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## SusieT (21 March 2013)

Well i would be going with my truster vets advice over forum advice who haven't seen the horse or know it's history but are just giving knee jerk reactions (with no real back up for it).


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## amandap (21 March 2013)

I think I have a right to question any professional. I am responsible for making ultimate decisions for my horses and the consequences of those decisions. A professional should be willing and able to provide a good and science based (where possible) rationale for their suggestions. I want to fully understand why something is being suggested and any consequences (positive and negative) of that intervention in the short and long term. I also want to know if there are other options. Many problems can be treated many different ways and I like to know my choices not be presented with one standard treatment/intervention.


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## EAST KENT (22 March 2013)

My mare is wearing heart bars at the moment,she suffered a sudden laminitus attack at the beginning of Feb,took a turn for the worse ,was fitted with heart bars.After an initial painful and swollen few days it was very helpful.At this moment she is able to move and turn ok and showing obvious signs that she wants to get out and about.Nice to see! I will take the advice of my great farrier and super vet,they know much more than I do.The cause of the attack? A stupid farmer selling me rich rye grass hayledge..never ever do this!If I have learnt anything it is to feed less "good" feed to a horse and realise they are meant to browse por grazing and always be on the move.


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## amandap (22 March 2013)

EAST KENT said:



			A stupid farmer selling me rich rye grass hayledge..never ever do this!If I have learnt anything it is to feed less "good" feed to a horse and realise they are meant to browse por grazing and always be on the move.
		
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I am sorry your horse has laminitis and I wish him well but you can't blame the farmer, surely. It is up to us owners to be aware of these things, there is no incentive for farmers to grow hay or haylage for laminitics. Fodder is grown to boost nutrient levels for cattle mainly there is no consideration given to sugar levels by most farmers. Haylage can also be too acidic for some horses.

ps. I've got it badly wrong with my pony on a couple of occasions. I try not to blame myself but learn as much as I can to avoid her getting laminitis again.


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## cptrayes (22 March 2013)

A Guilding said:



			Ps support is what I do for needy friends, it has no place as a descriptive term in farriery. Its a phrase used by people who do not fully understand the purpose of the ancillery features of the shoe.
		
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Stoppit AG! I can't love a farrier any more than I do you already


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## cptrayes (22 March 2013)

SusieT said:



			Well i would be going with my truster vets advice over forum advice who haven't seen the horse or know it's history but are just giving knee jerk reactions (with no real back up for it).
		
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I would agree if vets weren't taught diddly squat about healthy feet and shoeing.


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## Andalucian (22 March 2013)

charliejet said:



			Fair enough, I admit I know nothing about heart bars 

If you had to shoe a lami cushings horse for short term support what type of shoe would you use / would be better?
		
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Short term support for a sore laminitic is better provided by temporary padding that can be adjusted as necessary for comfort.  Assuming the animal is not ready to be brought back into work.

Developing a thick sole is key for the comfort of any recovering laminitic.  Shoes (removing any abrasion from the ground) reverse the thickening process, so are best avoided altogether.  However once fully recovered, if the owner thought it necessary to shoe a laminitic/cushings pony I'd only ever go for a standard fullered shoe.  Boots would be far preferable as they're only on temporarily, thus limiting the sole thinning issue.


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## Andalucian (22 March 2013)

JEZA said:



			I was advised to use them with box rest on my pony with newly diagnosed equine metabolic syndrome and serious laminitis. She had been lame most of the time for 8 months, and on and off alot before that.
I took the shoes off (she had always been shod) , (dropped soles rotated pedal bone etc) bought a muzzle, turned her out, bought a rasp. That was a year ago. I do her little bit of trimming myself and the only time she has been lame is when the farrier "checked" my work!!! He "tidied her feet" so she was lame for 3 weeks!!
No shoes, ever again for her, and I would never entertain heart bars for any of mine in any instance.
		
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Impressive JEZA


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## A Guilding (22 March 2013)

cptrayes said:



			Stoppit AG! I can't love a farrier any more than I do you already 

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It would never work between us, we want different things, I just cant see myself being able to change!


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## cptrayes (22 March 2013)

A Guilding said:



			It would never work between us, we want different things, I just cant see myself being able to change! 

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Just good friends then  ?


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## A Guilding (22 March 2013)

cptrayes said:



			Just good friends then  ?



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Of course, if you are sure you will cope?  Will the rest of the bare foot people unfriend you ?


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## cptrayes (22 March 2013)

A Guilding said:



			Of course, if you are sure you will cope?  Will the rest of the bare foot people unfriend you ?
		
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Do I look  to you like I'd be bovvered?????


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## EAST KENT (22 March 2013)

amandap said:



			I am sorry your horse has laminitis and I wish him well but you can't blame the farmer, surely. It is up to us owners to be aware of these things, there is no incentive for farmers to grow hay or haylage for laminitics. Fodder is grown to boost nutrient levels for cattle mainly there is no consideration given to sugar levels by most farmers. Haylage can also be too acidic for some horses.

ps. I've got it badly wrong with my pony on a couple of occasions. I try not to blame myself but learn as much as I can to avoid her getting laminitis again.
		
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This mare had been on hayledge the seven years I have owned her  and NEVER has suffered laminitus or colic before.At the start she was found stood all four legs apart ,sweating,in fact poisoned, ,last year being so wet apparently changed the sugar levels in the crop.No horse should be on rich dairy cow feed,I should have known ,and the seller certainly should have known.As the vet said,horses ain`t cows ,totally different feed requirements.Lesson learnt by me,farmer still pig ignorant,sadly In fact the vet said NEVER ever feed hayledge!


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## amandap (22 March 2013)

EAST KENT said:



			This mare had been on hayledge the seven years I have owned her  and NEVER has suffered laminitus or colic before.At the start she was found stood all four legs apart ,sweating,in fact poisoned, ,last year being so wet apparently changed the sugar levels in the crop.No horse should be on rich dairy cow feed,I should have known ,and the seller certainly should have known.As the vet said,horses ain`t cows ,totally different feed requirements.Lesson learnt by me,farmer still pig ignorant,sadly In fact the vet said NEVER ever feed hayledge!
		
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Was it poison from toxins formed by bacteria in too wet (badly made) haylage? It's scary as haylage is more like silage here and trying to introduce haylage made on an old meadow was what triggered one of my ponys' attacks. 

Silage and too wet haylage are at risk of toxins forming from nasty anaerobic bacteria. Proper haylage has quite a lower moisture content to silage but mustn't be too dry either.
It is actually easy to test moisture content before baling using a microwave oven and some scales! There isn't really an excuse not to make it properly. (Eta... except weather! lol) We owners have to be on guard for our horses and sadly some of us learn by bad experiences for our horses. 

Microwave instructions on here but there are loads on the internet. http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/442/442-106/442-106.html


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## Alyth (23 March 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I would agree if vets weren't taught diddly squat about healthy feet and shoeing.
		
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Exactly!!!!


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## EAST KENT (2 April 2013)

amandap said:



			Was it poison from toxins formed by bacteria in too wet (badly made) haylage? It's scary as haylage is more like silage here and trying to introduce haylage made on an old meadow was what triggered one of my ponys' attacks. 

Silage and too wet haylage are at risk of toxins forming from nasty anaerobic bacteria. Proper haylage has quite a lower moisture content to silage but mustn't be too dry either.
It is actually easy to test moisture content before baling using a microwave oven and some scales! There isn't really an excuse not to make it properly. (Eta... except weather! lol) We owners have to be on guard for our horses and sadly some of us learn by bad experiences for our horses. 

Microwave instructions on here but there are loads on the internet. http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/442/442-106/442-106.html

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Wish I knew,hindsight,the only exact science! She was re xrayed today because things had been looking very good,and turning her out in a tiny bare paddock was on the cards for next week.Then last night she did not back up as quick as I went into her,led her out and found her extremely sore.The xrays show that the pedal bone has not rotated any more (Phew!!) but on both fronts there is an area showing a sac of fluid build up just on the end of the pedal bone.This can be released by the farrier,so once that is done we can look to finally healing I hope.She also had the free Cushings test,we call her HairyMhairi,but I never thought she was any more than a hairey irish cob,just hard work on the clippers.Either way,she has a brilliant vet and farrier,so with luck she should come through.She is not a fat sort of mare,in fact sometimes she is hard to keep as I would want her,so maybe cushings is a possibility.It has been a nerve racking time,not one I would wish on anyone


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## patp (2 April 2013)

Hi.  So sorry to hear of all the heartache and worry you have had with your mare.  We went through a terrible time with an old mare of ours about four years ago.  She suffered from laminitis which was not at first diagnosed by the vet, (although we did query whether it could be lammi, but the vet said no because the lameness was only in one leg! we found out too late that this is total rubbish and a horse can have lammi in one or more feet, back or front!).

We were advised by the vet to walk her in hand and graze her in hand, the outcome was both front pedal bones rotated and sunk!  She had developed founder - had we not walked and grazed her she probably would not have got so bad.  I will always consider laminitis now, whenever a horse of mine is lame.  No walking out or grazing, and if there is no improvement in a week, XRAYS in order to eliminate Laminitis.    

From the date our mare was finally diagnosed on we listened to our farrier, who after all is the expert in the management of a horses feet.  We did not have heart bar shoes because we did not want nails used, but we opted for 'imprint shoes' which were expensive but helped enormously with comfort for our mare.  After nine months in the box and marvellous care from the farrier, (and with some peripheral support from the vet in terms of painkiilers,etc) our mare was bought back to full soundness!  She even went on to win a dressage test that year.  Sadly two years later she developed arthritis in her hindlegs and then the lammi came back.  We decided that we could not put her through all that suffering again and took the decision to have her put to sleep.

That farrier gave our beloved mare another two years of painfree life.  When it comes to horses feet I will go with what my farrier advises every time.

Wishing you all the best with your mare, you are obviously a very caring owner!


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## EAST KENT (2 April 2013)

Thankyou PATP,I feel a lot happier after todays` xrays,she has not rotated..last night both I and Sue who helps out and rides her were worried sick.In fact it was more a case of ..well,is she going up to the kennels,but now we both feel so relieved that it seems sortable.
I know laminitus is unpredictable,I can only remember seeing it as a child in fat little welshies,and it was vile.this was so sudden though,my farrier is convinced because of this it is a reaction to hayledge toxins.Mhairi is not a fat type,in fact a week before her teeth were done as she was showing a couple of ribs..only a bit mind,but enough to check things out about.She is supposed to last me out,this one,and I really do hope she does.Finding saintly safe but willing mares is not the easiest sort to find,frankly I do not want to have to look again.


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## rvpeary (3 April 2013)

My Mare came down with laminitis at the start of last summer. She had Hbs fitted in August, had them removed in December and now has normal shoes and up until now is fully sound and in hard work.

I guess its just whatever works for you. Go with your gut instict, thats what I did and luckily it worked  
i was petrified about trying them after everything id heard, but i guess its like when your looking at holidays and you read bad reviews, all everyone ever seems to report back are when something bad happens and we never get to hear the good things.


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## EAST KENT (3 April 2013)

rvpeary said:



			My Mare came down with laminitis at the start of last summer. She had Hbs fitted in August, had them removed in December and now has normal shoes and up until now is fully sound and in hard work.

I guess its just whatever works for you. Go with your gut instict, thats what I did and luckily it worked  
i was petrified about trying them after everything id heard, but i guess its like when your looking at holidays and you read bad reviews, all everyone ever seems to report back are when something bad happens and we never get to hear the good things.
		
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So pleased for you, I pray our end result will be as good.just have to trust my super vet and farrier,they know loads more than I do.


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## Cazza525 (3 April 2013)

My old mare wears one heartbar shoe on the front, the other hooves are normally shod. The reason for this is she was on boxrest last year for a fractured splint and the loaded foot which she was stood on, dropped. Her heels have dropped too, one through age and two, she was left in a field for fifteen years not doing a lot (feet cared for when necessary.)

She is much much more comfortable on the turn with hb on. I do find her more stumbly though but shes very unfit and just started very light work. I am hoping that she won't need it forever, but time will tell. It certainly allows me to get her out and about and see a bit of the world which she loves.


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