# Tortoise people; I have a very poorly Leopard :(



## here_i_am (25 March 2013)

Hi everybody. We're deperate for some advice/opinions on one of our male Leopards, Alice(!)
It was first noticed that when he was eating, his mouth wasn't opening very wide at all, over a year ago. He really struggled to eat. We took him to our local vet (just because we happened to be going there with a cat anyway), but he just referred us to Ashley Vets in Manchester (http://ashleigh-veterinary-centre.com/
). There, they put him under GA to see if they could manually open his mouth. They could, and they said it was normal, so it wasn't anything to do with the mouth itself, but was probably nerve damage that would degenerate until he would be unable to feed normally and have to be tube fed. They just said to cut his food up for him.
However, he seemed to get worse, so we took him to a third vet (Birchheath exotic vets in Tarporley*http://www.birchheathexoticvets.com/
*). They admitted him, along with our other Leopard Hugo (who is fine, but went to keep Alice company). They sedated him and xrayed him, which showed no abnormalities. Mouth again was manipulated normally under sedation. They took bloods, which showed that his urea levels were very high (8+), showing massive dehydration. He also had a high white blood cell count, indicating an infection at some point. However, the vet didn't think either of this was anything to do with his mouth problems. They also took faecal samples from both torts, which showed roundworm, but said not to worm him until he improves health-wise.
So, because of the dehydration, they fitted a feeding tube and sent him home after showing us how to feed him. He is having Critical Care fed to him twice a day, along with 0.45ml of metacam of a morning. The tube was fitted on the 14th of March, so 11 days ago.
Tonight, he is very poorly. His head is hanging out of his shell and flopped onto the floor. He isn't bringing his head back in and is very unresponsive to anything. Mum has spoken to the on-call vet at Birch Heath, and arranged to take him back tomorrow morning.

Does anybody have any ideas of what could be wrong now? He's really really deteriorated since going to the vets. Could the tube have moved and we've been feeding him into his chest cavity or something? Or perhaps an infection at the tube site (although it looks fine)?
The vet on the phone didn't really offer any ideas.

We'd be very grateful for any advice as to what we could try next. It looks very bad tonight*

Thank you in advance.


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## Bearsmum (26 March 2013)

Poor Alice, I do hope he's picked up. I had a feeding tube fitted to my tortoise a couple of years ago and it was stitched into place so I doubt it could have moved if it was stitched in. Does sound like the effects of an infection though.
Fingers crossed for him.


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## Amymay (26 March 2013)

Are the vets specialists?


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## here_i_am (26 March 2013)

Yes, they're highly recommended exotic specialists. However, we're unhappy with the treatment he is getting, so sought a second opinion today. He is being referred to another vets tomorrow morning. Hopefully they'll do a better job of getting him well again. His urea levels have hugely improved today, but his wbc has dropped dramatically. His blood proteins are also very high. He's on a Hartmans solution drip tonight, until we can move him. Stress!


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## here_i_am (26 March 2013)

Bearsmum - did ur tort go on to have the tube removed & be able to eat for himself?


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## Bearsmum (27 March 2013)

Fingers crossed you can get to the bottom of what's happening with this little guy. At least you are gettting lots of specialist help, which is essential with torties.
Yes I'm pleased to report Dougal made a full recovery, had his tube removed and returned to his happy former self.
Good luck.


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## Carmen6 (5 April 2013)

How's the tort, here_i_am? Is he still with us?

I've kept a few different species of tortoise, but never had and issues, so sadly I can't help. Have you tried the tortoise forums? I think the main one is Shelled Warriors, if you're not already a member.

I have experience of both vets you mention. I'd been a loyal customer of the first exotic vet you saw, for over 10 years. Some serious lack


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## Carmen6 (5 April 2013)

oops, stupid phone. I shall continue.

Some serious lack of judgement on the vet's part prompted me to go on to the second exotic vet you mentioned, where I'm still a customer. Although I trust these vets much more, and they have a laboratory on site for fast tests and pathology turn around, I've lost animals again to poor judgement. 

All you can do with reptiles is educate yourself as much as humanly possible and have your eyes wide open when you see the vet for treatment, without being a pain in the backside.

Good luck and hope this guy is still with us. Xx


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## here_i_am (6 April 2013)

Thank you carmen6  He's still with us  The vet (Molly) at the THIRD practice we took him to (not at all happy with the treatment he received at the second) totally changed his treatments & he really really picked up. He was discharged last Saturday and went back for a check-up on weds. He's still not 100%, but he has started eating again on his own, which is a huge deal  His white blood cell count was through the roof at one stage, so he's def had an infection somewhere. There's a huge thread about him on the tortoise section of the Reptile forum - they pushed me for a 3rd opinion & Im so glad we did. Birchheath didn't even have him with any form of heat source! :-/
Thank you for asking after him. Exotics are a pain in the bum when they're ill! Love them though


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## here_i_am (6 April 2013)

Ps, the third vet was called Molly Varga from Cheshire Pets in Holmes Chapel http://www.cheshirepet.co.uk/?team-member=molly-varga 
Really recommend her after all Alice went though  Hopefully you won't ever need her though!


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