# Laura Collett and Noble Bestman



## Supertrooper (8 December 2013)

Does anyone know what's happened, it says on her twitter site that she's had to give up her share of him?


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## LEC (8 December 2013)

No longer based at the Walkers and guessing it was to dissolve the partnership.


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## Replay (8 December 2013)

On Laura's Facebook page it says this:  "When are riders going to realise its not ok to ask someone else's owners to buy them horses..... Go and find your own owners and stop trying to steal other peoples!"


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## Dusty85 (8 December 2013)

I kinda get where she's coming from, but at the same time, its not like owners are 'bound' to certain riders- look at NH racing- owners will have horses with different trainers!


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## glamourpuss (8 December 2013)

Replay said:



			On Laura's Facebook page it says this:  "When are riders going to realise its not ok to ask someone else's owners to buy them horses..... Go and find your own owners and stop trying to steal other peoples!"
		
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Hmmmmm as Dusty85 says owners aren't bound to riders & can move horses & support around as they see fit. 
Whilst I do feel for Laura losing one of her top horses at the end of a difficult year I'm sure if a new owner came to her bringing horses from another rider she wouldn't be saying no. 

I hope she gets Rayef back to full fitness & picks herself back up in 2014.


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## TarrSteps (8 December 2013)

Replay said:



			On Laura's Facebook page it says this:  "When are riders going to realise its not ok to ask someone else's owners to buy them horses..... Go and find your own owners and stop trying to steal other peoples!"
		
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Owners are grownups and can make their own decisions about how and where they spend their money. Frankly if I were someone successful enough to be in a position to buy a horse for a rider I might be a bit offended at the implication I don't know my own mind! I know horses isn't Tesco's vs Sainsbury's but, considering the amounts of money involved, it is, at the end of the day, a business.


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## tonkatoy (9 December 2013)

i am slightly confused that out of all her horses they could potentially buy, they went with the one with a broken leg?

did i miss something?


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## DonkeyClub (9 December 2013)

Maybe the owners have decided to retire him so have asked laura to give up her share? He's had a broken leg that probably cost thousands to fix and he's not that young if I remember rightly


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## LEC (9 December 2013)

In SJ Scott Brash and Tina Fletcher have the same main owners. As do AN and OT in eventing.

However unpleasant, it's just business. You just have to shrug it off and concentrate on your own business.


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## Rosiefan (9 December 2013)

Replay said:



			On Laura's Facebook page it says this:  "When are riders going to realise its not ok to ask someone else's owners to buy them horses..... Go and find your own owners and stop trying to steal other peoples!"
		
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What a strange thing to say.  Owners don't 'belong' to riders - if anything, it's the other way round. He who pays the piper calls the tune!


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## ihatework (9 December 2013)

Rosiefan said:



			What a strange thing to say.  Owners don't 'belong' to riders - if anything, it's the other way round. He who pays the piper calls the tune!
		
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Quite. A very unprofessional thing to be doing LC


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## popsdosh (9 December 2013)

Replay said:



			On Laura's Facebook page it says this:  "When are riders going to realise its not ok to ask someone else's owners to buy them horses..... Go and find your own owners and stop trying to steal other peoples!"
		
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I think the words kettle and black spring to mind!!!
When are riders going to stop treating owners like mushrooms!!! (if you need an explanation PM )


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## TarrSteps (9 December 2013)

popsdosh said:



			I think the words kettle and black spring to mind!!!
When are riders going to stop treating owners like mushrooms!!! (if you need an explanation PM )
		
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## silu (9 December 2013)

ihatework said:



			Quite. A very unprofessional thing to be doing LC
		
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LC of course is still young...ish! but about time she grew up and indeed acted professionally. Continually putting up blogs about being hung over and rubbishing certain events/doesn't want to go when there are 1000s of little children out there who will probably never be able to afford to even sit on a pony is a bit rich. It's a business I presume she's running then act like a business woman not a spoilt Pony Club brat. No green cheese from me as no longer compete out of choice.


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## glamourpuss (9 December 2013)

popsdosh said:



			I think the words kettle and black spring to mind!!!
When are riders going to stop treating owners like mushrooms!!! (if you need an explanation PM )
		
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You took what I was trying to say out of my mouth.


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## Daffodil (9 December 2013)

I'd never really followed Laura until she took on Kauto, but since then I've followed her career quite closely and was horrified by her accident.   I have to say however she does need now to grow up, stop constantly putting up tweets about wine, hang-overs and some questionable photographs and start behaving like a professional rider running a business.   She has hardly mentioned Kauto recently (although I know ATR has produced a lovely film about him) and she needs to remember that taking him on rocketed her profile.   The sudden move from Membury was odd, and she needs to pull herself together for the future.   This year has been absolutely horrid for her, and she's lucky to be alive (which may account for some of the wilder things she appears to get up to).  I'm very sorry she's lost the ride on NB but with the move from Membury it was probably inevitable.


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## glamourpuss (9 December 2013)

Daffodil said:



			I'd never really followed Laura until she took on Kauto, but since then I've followed her career quite closely and was horrified by her accident.   I have to say however she does need now to grow up, stop constantly putting up tweets about wine, hang-overs and some questionable photographs and start behaving like a professional rider running a business.   She has hardly mentioned Kauto recently (although I know ATR has produced a lovely film about him) and she needs to remember that taking him on rocketed her profile.   The sudden move from Membury was odd, and she needs to pull herself together for the future.   This year has been absolutely horrid for her, and she's lucky to be alive (which may account for some of the wilder things she appears to get up to).  I'm very sorry she's lost the ride on NB but with the move from Membury it was probably inevitable.
		
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Woah! Stop tweeting about wine & hangovers?.....the girl is a young event rider not a bloody nun!! She is having a bit of fun. It doesnt seem to have effected her results this year.
Whilst I don't agree with the FB comments & a couple of comments made grumbling about the NHS after her accident (grrrrrr), on the whole I think her Twitter feed is interesting & she comes across as a hardworking rider!
It may have also escaped your attention but it is out of season & in the run up to Christmas.....eventers are allowed down time too! [sheeeeeeeeesh]


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## Eventer512 (9 December 2013)

I follow Laura on Twitter and as an amateur event rider who works a full time job and tries to event I am in awe of her. However she comes across like a spoilt brat. She seems to expect everything her own way, we all go through tough times in our lives it's the nature of life. Equestrian sports is elitist and unless you are super rich and if you are talented and lucky enough to have wealthy owners like Laura has had have they right to have horses with however they like without you insulting their intelligence. Also we all have horses that break! When our horses break it's the only horse we have. I wish she could see how lucky she has been. Her crap year would be someone else's triumph over adversity. She has also won a lot more this year than most people do in a life time. I'm sure there are budding talented young event riders who would give their right arm to be in her position. Perspective needed for sure. Wish her all the best for 2014 she is undeniably talented but hope she can come across a little more professional. Sadly although people are allowed down time public figures and role models have to be careful. It's the inevitable down side of being in that position.


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## silu (9 December 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			Woah! Stop tweeting about wine & hangovers?.....the girl is a young event rider not a bloody nun!! She is having a bit of fun. It doesnt seem to have effected her results this year.
Whilst I don't agree with the FB comments & a couple of comments made grumbling about the NHS after her accident (grrrrrr), on the whole I think her Twitter feed is interesting & she comes across as a hardworking rider!
It may have also escaped your attention but it is out of season & in the run up to Christmas.....eventers are allowed down time too! [sheeeeeeeeesh]
		
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Sorry but many many of the comments about drink and hangovers were made while AT events!


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## TarrSteps (9 December 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			Woah! Stop tweeting about wine & hangovers?.....the girl is a young event rider not a bloody nun!! She is having a bit of fun. It doesnt seem to have effected her results this year.
Whilst I don't agree with the FB comments & a couple of comments made grumbling about the NHS after her accident (grrrrrr), on the whole I think her Twitter feed is interesting & she comes across as a hardworking rider!
It may have also escaped your attention but it is out of season & in the run up to Christmas.....eventers are allowed down time too! [sheeeeeeeeesh]
		
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I don't think the poster said she shouldn't have a good time, more questioned the professionalism of discussing it publicly in a business where, effectively, the readers are paying the bills. Social media for people with a public profile is all about image control and we have to assume, in this day and age, that people know what they're putting out there.

Knowing someone is 'fun' might not bother you as an owner willing to donate 5 figures to the cause, it might even attract you. But it will put other people - some of them the professional sorts that have extra money for event horses - off. Fair enough. But being a professional is not just about riding horses.


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## almostthere (9 December 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			I don't think the poster said she shouldn't have a good time, more questioned the professionalism of discussing it publicly in a business where, effectively, the readers are paying the bills. Social media for people with a public profile is all about image control and we have to assume, in this day and age, that people know what they're putting out there.

Knowing someone is 'fun' might not bother you as an owner willing to donate 5 figures to the cause, it might even attract you. But it will put other people - some of them the professional sorts that have extra money for event horses - off. Fair enough. But being a professional is not just about riding horses.
		
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Speaking as a small scale "owner" - TS as always you speak a lot of sense.  I have observed and experienced wildly differing standards of so -called professionalism and, FWIW, I am not sure youth is a defining driver - in my (limited) experience the youngest rider was also the most professional!


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## TarrSteps (9 December 2013)

almostthere said:



			Speaking as a small scale "owner" - TS as always you speak a lot of sense.  I have observed and experienced wildly differing standards of so -called professionalism and, FWIW, I am not sure youth is a defining driver - in my (limited) experience the youngest rider was also the most professional!
		
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I think a lot of it is down to personality and training, along with having a good support system.

Social media is so interesting for this. I know the argument is that whatever riders do on their own time is their own businesses but there is a difference between doing and publishing. Who does what is fairly well known but I think it's fair enough for owners to be concerned about both the public face of their investment and what goes on behind the scenes. Lots of people are very good at keeping their private and professional lives separate, others less so. It's no different than any other employment situation - your boss doesn't care if you get off your face every weekend but might not be so understanding if you put it out over fb that you're hung over at work!


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## Pigeon (9 December 2013)

I have noticed that riders post more personal things (moans, not-very-subtle digs etc) on their 'professional' facebook page more than any other business or sportsperson. Maybe good riders are sensitive types?


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## Hurricanelady (9 December 2013)

Unless I'm going blind, there are no comments on Laura's facebook page at all about owners and riders.  The last post on that page by the page owner (Laura Collett Eventing) was this "Having had my worst year I'm chuffed to be 39th in the British Eventing Rider rankings... Fingers crossed 2014 will be more successful!" made on the 1 November, and the one before that was made 29 October simply about Noble Bestman having his cast off and stitches out.


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## Mickyjoe (9 December 2013)

I think it's more the Twitter page. 
I am in two minds about this. I agree it's unprofessional for her and her groom to put too much out in the public domain, especially retweeting all the comments from the general public who are saying how unfair it is etc. The only people who know whether the whole thing was unfair or not is LC and her owners and really no matter how sore she is about it - retweeting the very strongly worded comments is basically saying she agrees with them. 

On the other hand she is only 25 - the partying tweets generally don't seem too bad. I didn't really get the impression she was getting hammered the nights before competitions and in fairness, I think most people would have heard about the legendary partying of the likes of Toddy etc, so play hard, work hard eventers are nothing new and she certainly does seem to work hard. 

In comparison - I followed Phoebe Buckley for a while, but I had to unfollow her - if ever there was a person who needed to step away from the phone/computer it was her. Totally changed my perception of her (and not for the good unfortunately ).


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## noname (9 December 2013)

Hurricanelady said:



			Unless I'm going blind, there are no comments on Laura's facebook page at all about owners and riders.  The last post on that page by the page owner (Laura Collett Eventing) was this "Having had my worst year I'm chuffed to be 39th in the British Eventing Rider rankings... Fingers crossed 2014 will be more successful!" made on the 1 November, and the one before that was made 29 October simply about Noble Bestman having his cast off and stitches out.
		
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On her personal page,"Laura Collett".

I know how she feels about riders trying to steal your horses and it is annoying.
I find it ironic though, given one of the cases I've experienced was Laura Colletts head girl, when she was trying to be a "professional rider".

Swings and roundabouts.

If you have a horse that is doing well people do try and poach them. If your owner is supportive it can really be quite funny. I had a big laugh when they did it to me. Some ridiculous pitches, letters and phone calls sent to the owner. Caused us much amusement. I don't have time to ride for other people now but its expected if your doing well and you just need to take it as a compliment. If your horse is a devil, people are less interested.


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## TarrSteps (9 December 2013)

LC has a page of her own as well. All she really needs to do is change her privacy settings and/or not discuss business on it.

I really don't think owners care what people do in their spare time, any more than any other employer/business partner. But they ARE employers/partners and so public, uncomplimentary comments are going to raise eyebrows.


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## Hurricanelady (9 December 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			LC has a page of her own as well. All she really needs to do is change her privacy settings and/or not discuss business on it.

I really don't think owners care what people do in their spare time, any more than any other employer/business partner. But they ARE employers/partners and so public, uncomplimentary comments are going to raise eyebrows.
		
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Ah sorry I was going to say I had only seen the contents of the "official" page, I couldn't see a personal page on FB but I agree with you, definitely.


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## Santa_Claus (9 December 2013)

The problem here is you can see her personal page as her privacy settings are set to everyone so friend or not the contents of the page are there for all the world to see


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## dingle12 (9 December 2013)

Anyone know why the sudden move?


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## MillionDollar (9 December 2013)

I have it on very good authority that she behaves like a spoilt brat and has pissed the Walkers off. I mean who would ever move from a yard like that 'because it was time to move on'.............no you had no choice but to move. You couldn't have a nicer yard, it is AMAZING!!!


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## Caledonia (9 December 2013)

Well given her comments (now removed) on twitter about Ditcheat needing to get over it when Kauto was moved to her, perhaps she ought to take some of her own advice.


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## Patterdale (9 December 2013)

Replay said:



			On Laura's Facebook page it says this:  "When are riders going to realise its not ok to ask someone else's owners to buy them horses..... Go and find your own owners and stop trying to steal other peoples!"
		
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There are no friends in business I'm afraid.....think she needs to get a grip.


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## Kiribati_uk (9 December 2013)

What the fluff..........Laura is unproffesional because she says she has a hangover, you lot obviously live a sheltered life, ever read Ben Hobdays/Gregor Knox(Jontys Evans head Lad instigater of The world FAMOUS Knox challenge!!) Twitter?? Another well known Youngish eventer was passed out before pudding at the ERA ball.....But suppose that's ok?!
 Event riders work hard and play even harder......I worked for an Irish Olympic rider so I know first hand!!!
 So what if Laura is a spoilt brat, she gets results on many varied horses!!! The are much worse princesses in the eventing world, and don't even get me started on the SJers!!!
And yes Laura might say things that are a bit 'ouch' but surely you cant knock the girl for her honesty.......And if you don't like her twitter FB don't read it, SIMPLES!!


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## Patterdale (9 December 2013)

Deleted


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## Patterdale (9 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk said:



			Event riders work hard and play even harder......The are much worse princesses in the eventing world, and don't even get me started on the SJers!!!
		
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Very true. And there are more badly behaved male riders than female!

But you'd be hard pushed to find ANY event rider under 50 who doesn't enjoy a sherbet (or 10) at a 3 day. It's part of the fun, so I don't really think its fair to criticise her for getting in on the action.


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## TarrSteps (9 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk said:



			What the fluff..........Laura is unproffesional because she says she has a hangover, you lot obviously live a sheltered life, ever read Ben Hobdays/Gregor Knox(Jontys Evans head Lad instigater of The world FAMOUS Knox challenge!!) Twitter?? Another well known Youngish eventer was passed out before pudding at the ERA ball.....But suppose that's ok?!
 Event riders work hard and play even harder......I worked for an Irish Olympic rider so I know first hand!!!
 So what if Laura is a spoilt brat, she gets results on many varied horses!!! The are much worse princesses in the eventing world, and don't even get me started on the SJers!!!
And yes Laura might say things that are a bit 'ouch' but surely you cant knock the girl for her honesty.......And if you don't like her twitter FB don't read it, SIMPLES!!
		
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Trust me, I have not led a sheltered life.  

Social media, if you're in business, is advertising.  I don't think anyone is particularly bothered by the partying stuff (although, if you think employers don't care about stuff like that, don't bet on it - Google is their friend, too!) and anyone in horses would be well used to that, it's the bit about bashing owners/ex owners.  Would YOU do business with someone you thought would speak ill of you?

Anyway, she's a good rider and seems like basically a good kid. (And yes, she is a kid.) So hopefully this minor fuss will act as a reminder that people ARE reading and she can get back to the business of riding nice horses.


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## Kiribati_uk (9 December 2013)

@Tarrsteps was generalising about the sheltered life, I bet a few of us fellow HHo have been dragged thru several hedges backwards hehehe!
But I say she is hurting understandably because losing a horse is a serious kick in the guts, BUt she hasn't been unproffesional on twitter and her FB account is her PRIVATE account!! 
But reading fellow event riders/grooms tweets /FB statuses makes me laugh because the first proper event yard I worked on, the first thing we were taught was what happens on this yard stays here.........which has stuck with me throughout!! and many WPs were sent packing for the smallest indescrection which is right imo!! 
But I think the one thing Laura needs to learn is treat everyone as ********s until proven otherwise, Its a cutthroat business and a lot of horsefolk would sell there own granny to make a buck!!


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## Swirlymurphy (9 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk said:



			But I say she is hurting understandably because losing a horse is a serious kick in the guts, BUt she hasn't been unproffesional on twitter and her FB account is her PRIVATE account!!
		
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It might be her private account but the settings mean that the world and his wife can read what she puts.  People have been sacked for similar indiscretions.  Someone needs to tell her that she's not helping herself.


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## Dusty85 (9 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk----- Im an not sure you get what we are trying to say. 

Yes- she is young and in her private life she can do whatever the hell she pleases. 

She is trying to run a business- thats what being an eventer is- the more recognition you get, you hope that more owners will give you rides. 

You have to be careful now a days with what you are putting on the public domain- if people can see it then its fair game. It is unprofessional to do/say/act the way she is. 

If she really thinks it that unfair- then she should have a private (the key word being private- she needs to change her settings) and her public working one- where she must up hold a certain professionalism.

Thats all we're saying. No one thinks she has to lead the life of a nun! 

For what its worth- all of this in addition to the Kauto star bickering has really led me to have a negative opinion of her. She seems like someone who isn't really that thankful for what life has given her.


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## claracanter (9 December 2013)

As someone who started following her twitter after she was given Kauto, I was shocked that she moved yards so suddenly and lost the ride on NB. Obviously she is keeping something private or we would all know WHY both these things happened. I do find it odd she doesn't tweet so much about Kauto any more. Has the novelty worn off? For someone who had a near death experience earlier on in the year, you would expect her to have a greater understanding of how lucky she is.


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## Kiribati_uk (9 December 2013)

Swirlymurphy said:



			It might be her private account but the settings mean that the world and his wife can read what she puts.  People have been sacked for similar indiscretions.  Someone needs to tell her that she's not helping herself.
		
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Surely if you are reading someone elses profile that your not friends with is called Cyber stalking?!! (personally I think that's a bit weird!)
And surely if you don't like what she says/writes/does don't read it.........simples!!!
What Laura does is her business, not ours so surely she can do what she wants?!, she is old enough to make her own decisions whether they are right or wrong its her choice, No one elses. 
Really irritates me how hho/forums tend to slate people, the very rarely seems to be any love........I'm not sure if it's a bit of jealousy or what?!
And before anyone has a hissy fit....that comment isn't aimed at anyone........If it was I would of said your name!!!


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## Dusty85 (9 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk said:



			Surely if you are reading someone elses profile that your not friends with is called Cyber stalking?!! (personally I think that's a bit weird!)
And surely if you don't like what she says/writes/does don't read it.........simples!!!
		
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Oh god. 

Grow up.


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## Kiribati_uk (9 December 2013)

Dusty85 said:



			Oh god. 

Grow up.
		
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Excuse me, why do I need to GROW UP?!, I have never looked at someone elses profile who im not friends with........I personally think its a bit stalkerish/sad.......THATS MY OPINION, surely that's allowed or is that deemed childish??


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## TarrSteps (9 December 2013)

I'm pretty sure you don't think that is how Facebook works.  

And you are absolutely allowed your opinion, just as other people are allowed theirs.  And people can do what they want. And they can understand that other people will have opinions on what they think and do, particularly if they publicise those thoughts and actions, which implies they WANT people to know about them. 

I don't read that anyone is jealous. I do read that people are perhaps a bit perplexed that someone who has been given so many opportunities and so much support at such a young age feels so hard done by by the vagaries of life but, as you say, people will think what they want. I don't even read that anyone is slating her abilities - many people have commented on how good a rider she is. It's just the client management that might need a brush up, which is completely in the public domain. 

For the record, I don't think it is ANYONE'S business what goes on between an owner and an rider, why people move or why horses change hands. I don't go around asking people those questions in real life! But if you put it out there, people are going to comment. 

I actually have no opinion on Laura but I think the collision of the Internet and the horse business is very interesting, as a general subject. Personally, I am amazed that anyone thinks what they put on line is private and, even more, that anyone young thinks that!


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## Dusty85 (9 December 2013)

Yes of course, Kiribati, how silly of me to let my stalker tendencies become public knowledge. 

Heaven forbid should I ever look at anyone's Facebook profile ever again... ;P


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## TarrSteps (9 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk said:



			Surely if you are reading someone elses profile that your not friends with is called Cyber stalking?!!
		
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Just to clarify, it is not. Reading information about someone that they make public and publish on line is not stalking - it's like reading about the Kardashians on the Daily Mail site! YOU may think it's icky but it's perfectly legal and okay.

(I know that is not your point but it's worth saying. No one has done anything awful by reading a PUBLIC profile of a PUBLIC figure who presumably wants her views to be known. It's not fair to imply that they have.)


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## Kiribati_uk (9 December 2013)

Dusty85 said:



			Yes of course, Kiribati, how silly of me to let my stalker tendencies become public knowledge. 

Heaven forbid should I ever look at anyone's Facebook profile ever again... ;P
		
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Wow attention seeking much.........I said imo I thought it was weird, I also think riding without a hat/driving without a seatbelt is stupid but thats my OPINION!! 

@Tarrsteps Im a big believer in if you don't agree with it walk away (the are exceptions obviously), Everyone has an opinion on everyone elses business/life, which I find a bit weird! But the are a lot more eventers who whinge/moan about owners etc on twitter, but I suppose in the age of social media you have to be squeaky clean or at least appear to be........


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## dieseldog (9 December 2013)

It could be worse!

LC: Worse day EVER!!!!!

AF1: Oh No HUN whats up

LC: Thanks HUN, worse day, really upset 

AF2: HUN!!! You know I'm always here for you :angel:

LC: I can't talk about it HUN, I'll send you a PM!

(LC - Laura, AF- Adoring Fan)


She has stepped away from the pity posts at least.


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## TarrSteps (9 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk said:



			Wow attention seeking much.........I said imo I thought it was weird, I also think riding without a hat/driving without a seatbelt is stupid but thats my OPINION!! 

@Tarrsteps Im a big believer in if you don't agree with it walk away (the are exceptions obviously), Everyone has an opinion on everyone elses business/life, which I find a bit weird! But the are a lot more eventers who whinge/moan about owners etc on twitter, but I suppose in the age of social media you have to be squeaky clean or at least appear to be........
		
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I agree, it's hardly an isolated event! And it hardly started with social media, the only difference now is it's out there forever.

I'm quite interested in how riders see owners, having spent almost my entire working life in the horse world. I would agree with you, there seems to be quite a lot of biting of the hand that feeds you. I will say though I've never read a negative comment about an owner, past or present, from Mark Todd, Andrew Nicholson, WFP, or any number of lesser lights. 

As a boss of mine used to say, remember that every client used to be someone else's and will likely be someone else's again. As was said earlier, he who pays the piper calls the tune - I guess I'm just surprised that many people don't seem to see it that way!


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## Dusty85 (9 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk said:



			I suppose in the age of social media you have to be squeaky clean or at least appear to be........
		
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YES. This is exactly the point we are trying to make.


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## Kiribati_uk (9 December 2013)

Dusty85 said:



			YES. This is exactly the point we are trying to make.
		
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But why? No one is and that's just false, we all make mistakes.


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## noname (9 December 2013)

Just another chapter in jilly coopers upcoming eventing novel!


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## Dusty85 (9 December 2013)

Because she will damage her reputation, which will affect her business.


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## Lolo (10 December 2013)

If I search for her on FB, her 'private' page comes up over her 'public' one. I think she needs to be careful of that, and needs to clamp her security settings down so it's the other way round.


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## popsdosh (10 December 2013)

The people on here who are perceived to be criticizing LC by the groupies are merely pointing out that her childish behavior is business suicide. Dont give me that crap about her private FB being private ,she is not so naive as to get her privacy settings wrong im afraid. She had something to say to the world and as many people who would listen the only naivety she has shown in the way people would react. LC has been handed some great opportunities that other more talented riders have not,she just does not seem to appreciate it  .


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## lannerch (10 December 2013)

I personally do not care what LC does away from eventing. All I care about is results.
To suggest someone that looks on simeone else's Facebook profile is cyberstalking is ridiculous which means I to am a cyberstalker ( but have never bothered looking up LC ) 
So LC acts her age, big deal!


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## ihatework (10 December 2013)

popsdosh said:



			The people on here who are perceived to be criticizing LC by the groupies are merely pointing out that her childish behavior is business suicide. Dont give me that crap about her private FB being private ,she is not so naive as to get her privacy settings wrong im afraid. She had something to say to the world and as many people who would listen the only naivety she has shown in the way people would react. LC has been handed some great opportunities that other more talented riders have not,she just does not seem to appreciate it  .
		
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Couldn't agree more.
As someone involved in event ownership (in a miniscule way I hasten to add), I keep a mental list of those riders who I probably wouldn't want to associate myself with. Thankfully I have the oppertunity to support, in a small way, an incredibly talented, professional and completely modest young rider.


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## Caol Ila (10 December 2013)

LOL, this thread.  It never fails to amaze how bad people's judgment can be with using social media; well, maybe not, since we live in a panopticon world and there's this kind of culture of putting everything out there for the world to see.  However, it's not hard to simply not write it on Facebook.  Just don't do it.  Hungover tae f ** ck due to a wild party?  Does it need to go on Facebook?  No.  Narked at your boss?  Well, you'd better know who is reading it before you put that up there.


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## scheherazade (10 December 2013)

This thread is no different from many other non-horse related scenarios. I am sure we all know someone who has put something ill advised on FB / Twitter and forgotten that they are also 'friends' with their mother / boss / ex etc and got into trouble for it. So many people (and not just the young) seem to overlook the privacy and implications of what they are writing. Too many things are written in anger or jest with no thought before pressing 'Send'. It saddens me that people put so many intimate minutiae of their lives up with little or no consideration for others it may be affecting.

And I totally agree about keeping the business and private profiles totally separate.


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## TarrSteps (10 December 2013)

Caol Ila said:



			. . .in a panopticon world . . .
		
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You totally win for today!


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## Swirlymurphy (10 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk said:



			Surely if you are reading someone elses profile that your not friends with is called Cyber stalking?!! (personally I think that's a bit weird!)
And surely if you don't like what she says/writes/does don't read it.........simples!!!
What Laura does is her business, not ours so surely she can do what she wants?!, she is old enough to make her own decisions whether they are right or wrong its her choice, No one elses. 
Really irritates me how hho/forums tend to slate people, the very rarely seems to be any love........I'm not sure if it's a bit of jealousy or what?!
And before anyone has a hissy fit....that comment isn't aimed at anyone........If it was I would of said your name!!!
		
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It's definitely not jealousy, that's for sure 

My point was - and it goes for anyone who has any sort of business/client relationship with someone else - if you put negative comments into the public arena, you can expect some sort of reaction at some point.  You might not know about it - it might be the job you applied for does not get offered to you; it might be the promotion you wanted so badly might go to someone else; or it might be that the owner of an event horse goes somewhere else.  If you think that your prospective employer/client is not googling your name to see what comes out of the woodwork, you are naïve.

I have no beef with Laura - she's been through a tough year, and she's a very talented young rider.  She just needs to manage her public output with a little more maturity in my view.


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## TarrSteps (10 December 2013)

Interesting general article on the way things work now.  http://careers.theguardian.com/careers-blog/google-online-searches

(The person interviewed is from the company that owns H&H and therefore this forum, funnily enough!)

Saying that "everyone does it" is not true.  Professionals (and people who want to be professionals) manage their image quite closely now and, as they have always been, are careful about what they comment on - and what they don't comment on!  Fans may find it attractive to follow someone who gives a warts and all play by play, but people who are investing their time/money/energy are usually less keen to take the risk that they will have their own business splashed all over the internet. There have been a few riders brought down by their behaviour and attitudes, although many more have survived scandals, usually by apologising and then shutting up! 

The interest isn't about LC at all. It's about how fast word gets around and how little is "private" these days unless you actively work to keep it that way.  Horses are big business now!


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## Baggybreeches (10 December 2013)

Probably not the same but I am very conscious of the implications of social media on my career, I don't have a very important or high profile job but I do have a degree of professional integrity. I post a lot on FB but it is irreverent observations of my day ( usually animal related). Whatever we post can easily be brought up on a google search and I can honestly say that you would not find anything at all derogatory about a business ( British Gas excluded!) or a person on my page. I find the people who post veiled updates aimed at somebody else quite dull ( and usually it's because they lack the brave pants to confront the person so they settle for cowardly digs which can be joined in on by their friends) and not at all business like.
Feel free to google Elaine Curran and tell me different


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## Caol Ila (10 December 2013)

The sad thing is that it isn't that hard to control your online image.  Think about what you're writing on Facebook or Twitter and make sure you understand the privacy settings on the website.

When I got married, I didn't take my husband's name in "real life" but I have done on Facebook, so if a potential employer or whatever wanted to find me, they probably couldn't (pictures you're tagged in will still show up if your friend's pages aren't totally locked down). I also have everything set on "friends only" and the "find me on Google" function turned off.


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## RunToEarth (10 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk said:



			Surely if you are reading someone elses profile that your not friends with is called Cyber stalking?!! (personally I think that's a bit weird!)
And surely if you don't like what she says/writes/does don't read it.........simples!!!
What Laura does is her business, not ours so surely she can do what she wants?!, she is old enough to make her own decisions whether they are right or wrong its her choice, No one elses. 
Really irritates me how hho/forums tend to slate people, the very rarely seems to be any love........I'm not sure if it's a bit of jealousy or what?!
And before anyone has a hissy fit....that comment isn't aimed at anyone........If it was I would of said your name!!!
		
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I like LC, I'm a fan, I think she's a decent rider and she has had a tough year. I do not think she is doing herself any favours and often I cringe at the stuff on fb, I'm not sure how amusing I would find her if I were the owner funding her rides, especially with the rant quoted by posters above. 

Social media is a liability or asset to every single business out there and which of those it becomes depends on how you use it. I do not put anything work related on my social media, I leave the marketing team to use it as an asset and I try not to use it as a noose, which a lot of people do (how many people winge about their colleagues under their own name on FB?) 

LC can choose to use any of her social media to boost her name or to drag it through the sh@t...currently she seems to be doing the latter.


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## TarrSteps (10 December 2013)

It's trickier for me as I work in horses, so the line between personal and professional is much thinner.  People have to invest in "me" not just my skills, because of the kind of work I often do, and so I think it's right they know a bit about me as a person, not just my work. I try to think before I post anything "Would a potential client be put off by this?" just as I hope I would if I was talking to people in a professional capacity. If the answer is "Yes" then I have to decide if that is a good thing or a bad thing - sometimes giving people a heads up that you won't be a good fit for them is actually helpful!


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## TarrSteps (10 December 2013)

RunToEarth said:



			I like LC, I'm a fan, I think she's a decent rider and she has had a tough year. I do not think she is doing herself any favours and often I cringe at the stuff on fb, I'm not sure how amusing I would find her if I were the owner funding her rides, especially with the rant quoted by posters above. 

Social media is a liability or asset to every single business out there and which of those it becomes depends on how you use it. I do not put anything work related on my social media, I leave the marketing team to use it as an asset and I try not to use it as a noose, which a lot of people do (how many people winge about their colleagues under their own name on FB?) 

LC can choose to use any of her social media to boost her name or to drag it through the sh@t...currently she seems to be doing the latter.
		
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Nail. Head.


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## maccachic (10 December 2013)

I don't really get why people feel the need to put so much rubbish on facebook talk to your friends instead.


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## oldvic (10 December 2013)

The world class programme is supposed to be about business advice and how you promote yourself as much as training. As LC is on this programme either she is ignoring the advice or not getting it. She is 25 yrs old - old enough to be married, have a family and be considered an adult so her age is not an excuse. Maybe she needs to take a good hard look at herself and do something about it. Whether someone approached the owners or not, if they were truly satisfied they could have said no so quite possibly a different rider was an attractive proposition. After all, the Walkers have done an awful lot for Laura but memories are short at times. 
There is a school of thought that says those that shout about themselves most have least to offer.


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## Goldenstar (10 December 2013)

maccachic said:



			I don't really get why people feel the need to put so much rubbish on facebook talk to your friends instead.
		
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Me too , I don't get FB it just seems to cause a lot of trouble .
I am told its my age , my friends however tell me it's excellent for stalking your children.


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## TarrSteps (10 December 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			Me too , I don't get FB it just seems to cause a lot of trouble .
I am told its my age , my friends however tell me it's excellent for stalking your children.
		
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Or, I'm told, potential employees!

I am a fan of fb, even more so since I have actual real life friends on three continents. I talk to my friends on facebook.  Privately.


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## Goldenstar (10 December 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			Or, I'm told, potential employees!

I am a fan of fb, even more so since I have actual real life friends on three continents. I talk to my friends on facebook.  Privately. 

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My groom is threatening to teach me how to use my page properly as long a s I promise not to say things like why does my groom not do xy and z when I ask her.


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## TarrSteps (10 December 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			My groom is threatening to teach me how to use my page properly as long a s I promise not to say things like why does my groom not do xy and z when I ask her.
		
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This is probably where I should admit I have been known to Google potential clients . . . 

Only, I hasten to add, with very positive results!!


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## Kiribati_uk (11 December 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			This is probably where I should admit I have been known to Google potential clients . . . 

Only, I hasten to add, with very positive results!!
		
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Think I need to jump on this cyber stalking bandwagon.............I'm missing out on gossip 
I'm well slow with this, I only use FB to talk to my friends(people I actually know in reallife!)
How on earth did people manage in the dark ages, ie 20yrs ago.............Oh yea we SPOKE to people.......SHOCK HORROR,
It freaks me out slightly how people can find out so much about people by just googling them!!


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## TarrSteps (11 December 2013)

Kiribati_uk said:



			It freaks me out slightly how people can find out so much about people by just googling them!!
		
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Only if you put it out there.  

The horse world has always run on gossip, there is no denying that.  But WRITING on the internet is PUBLISHING.  Literally and legally.  Once it's written down it's never going to go away. 


I know you are making a joke but, as I said, stalking is something different.  People using search engines to find out about the people they do business with, potential employees, prospective partners of various types is just business as usual now and not only acceptable but to be expected.  The genie is not going back in the bottle.  I just don't get how people who have grown up with it don't get that??


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## Lolo (11 December 2013)

It freaks me out how naive people (especially young people- under 25s) are about social media and the internet. If someone asks me to do a favour for them, in any capacity, I google them first, and look them up on FB. It's easy and fast and can be a very good indicator of what that person is like. 

I also mostly use FB to talk to my friends. But I'm pretty savvy and my profile is locked down- you can't see anything beyond my name, my profile picture and my cover photo. My siblings are the same because they are sensible and careful. 

FWIW, I find it utterly hilarious you're bemoaning FB and virtual friends whilst using an internet forum  Personally, I prefer how it was 150 years ago when letters were the best. But my parents are far more old school, they prefer the 770 (BC) when homing pigeons were the safest option... Times change andif you're going to use social media of any form you need to be savvy about it.


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## MillionDollar (11 December 2013)

RunToEarth said:



			I like LC, I'm a fan, I think she's a decent rider and she has had a tough year. I do not think she is doing herself any favours and often I cringe at the stuff on fb, I'm not sure how amusing I would find her if I were the owner funding her rides, especially with the rant quoted by posters above. 

Social media is a liability or asset to every single business out there and which of those it becomes depends on how you use it. I do not put anything work related on my social media, I leave the marketing team to use it as an asset and I try not to use it as a noose, which a lot of people do (how many people winge about their colleagues under their own name on FB?) 

LC can choose to use any of her social media to boost her name or to drag it through the sh@t...currently she seems to be doing the latter.
		
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Ditto! Exactly this


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## Avocadosalad (11 December 2013)

MillionDollar said:



			Ditto! Exactly this 

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Agree with this, too.
But our GB young riders are just that. Young. Often they are let down with older, incompetent staff who should be able to guide and advise these potential superstars.
Surely we all want the likes of LC and others to fly, and lift medals for team GBR. They just need t be surrounded by better advisors, better staff.


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## TarrSteps (11 December 2013)

I've said all I have to say, but, to be fair, the young riders on the Pathway/WC program DO have good people advising them and LC has a particularly media savvy mentor. It's neither here nor there to this discussion but it is certainly an area that gets covered in lottery funded training, even if a rider's personal support staff is not as clued up, in case people were wondering if it's a subject the powers that be consider worth considering.


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## oldvic (11 December 2013)

Avocadosalad said:



			Agree with this, too.
But our GB young riders are just that. Young. Often they are let down with older, incompetent staff who should be able to guide and advise these potential superstars.
Surely we all want the likes of LC and others to fly, and lift medals for team GBR. They just need t be surrounded by better advisors, better staff.
		
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But she is not a young rider, she is a senior rider and not eligible for young rider competitions. There comes a time when people have to stand up and be counted, take responsibility for themselves and their actions. It is no good trying to blame her staff - they are just that, her employees, unless one has the job description of nanny. She runs her own business and has been on the world class programme for several years so she has help and advice from a selection of people who are presumably considered at the top of their respective areas of expertise. All this is funded by sport GB (the lottery) and her recovery programme was funded by them and the British Olympic Association.
She is not the first person to lose the ride on a horse and won't be the last. I am equally certain that if she was offered someone else's top ride she would take it without hesitation.


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## Puppy (20 December 2013)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news...BAllora&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

It looks like she's parting ways with Allora too.


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## JJCS (20 December 2013)

So all of you slagging someone you have never met off online is different how? 

She is one of the hardest working riders, and yes she may like to have fun, but has never has a day off with it! Twitter if a great way to brake down the barriers between top riders and fans, and show they aren't all robots! If any of you have ever been to a 3 day then you would know&#8230;. They are WILD and even the TOP riders are WILD! 

Regarding owners, her owners have clearly told her some has approached them, and it is treading on other peoples toes,  if an owner chooses to move a horse then that&#8217;s fine, but it isn't nice when some try&#8217;s to steal the ride off you!  

Regarding not tweeting about Kauto every day, owners have an agreement if they want their horses tweeted about, so she only give updates every now and then. 

If you don&#8217;t like to see people enjoying them self them I suggest you unfollow her and forget about it rather than hiding behind your computers!


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## popsdosh (20 December 2013)

No body is hiding behind their computers and I say nothing I would not say to their face. I will happily tell her next time we meet up! 
It is not a professional way of going on im afraid wishing to use social media to big yourself up and run down previous owners publicly it is professional suicide in my opinion and the quickest way to lose friends in the horse world.
Other riders may try and get rides!!!! Of course LC has never gone behind other peoples backs for rides!!!! Perhaps she needs to get over it and realize the horses would not leave if the owners are happy and this petty attitude does not help the owners she still has or prospective ones feel easy about her!!


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## Dusty85 (20 December 2013)

On a side note-- has anyone noticed that she has now changed her privacy settings on FB? only limited things can be seen. Maybe a little too late though- I think the damage has already been done!


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## JJCS (20 December 2013)

What is the difference between her tweeting about her social life and a celebrity? Its not effecting riding and she has some very supportive owners, hence they told her someone wants a horse bought! And the upset between her and the walkers has been brewing for a long time, it's quite stressful riding for someone at the best of times and also being based at their yard makes it a lot harder!


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## Dusty85 (20 December 2013)

JJCS said:



			What is the difference between her tweeting about her social life and a celebrity?
		
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There is no difference. 

I would say exactly the same things about any person who could be in a position as a role model for younger people. 

It obviously is affecting her riding if she's loosing good horses!


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## JJCS (20 December 2013)

Noble Bestman won't event again and Allora is currently for sale.


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## Lolo (20 December 2013)

JJCS said:



			What is the difference between her tweeting about her social life and a celebrity? Its not effecting riding and she has some very supportive owners, hence they told her someone wants a horse bought! And the upset between her and the walkers has been brewing for a long time, it's quite stressful riding for someone at the best of times and also being based at their yard makes it a lot harder!
		
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If I were Laura, I'd be quite upset you posted this you know. Everything 'public' has been very civil- mutual agreement and needing to move on to develop, etc. Very obviously not that civil, but publicly very much so. 

Posting on the largest UK horse forum that problems had been brewing for months is probably not wise.


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## oldvic (20 December 2013)

If this is a stupid question I apologise but if Noble Bestman is never going to event again then why all the vitriol about losing the ride and someone trying to take the ride? It happens even to the best but if the owners are happy with how they are treated and how their horse is being ridden then there is no problem. When you are in someone else's yard then you have to play by their rules, like it or not. 
I don't think anybody is bothered whether Laura has any days off or not but to say she doesn't is not true - she has put on twitter that she has gone to London for the weekend.


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## LEC (21 December 2013)

She has better holidays than me! Barbados, Dubai, Ireland, top racing meets etc


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## Eventer512 (21 December 2013)

Shame she can't see how lucky she is. 
Must be sad to lose a ride like that Allora though but she is talented enough and I'm sure she'll produce another. Noticed Allora was for sale on Uptown Eventing. Guess Mr Walker wants a return for all he has put in. She must be worth a huge amount! Surely Laura will receive a pretty awesome commission! That would be a boost for her then.


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## oldvic (21 December 2013)

Eventer512 said:



			Shame she can't see how lucky she is. 
Must be sad to lose a ride like that Allora though but she is talented enough and I'm sure she'll produce another. Noticed Allora was for sale on Uptown Eventing. Guess Mr Walker wants a return for all he has put in. She must be worth a huge amount! Surely Laura will receive a pretty awesome commission! That would be a boost for her then.
		
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I wouldn't have thought she is likely to get commission. I doubt there was a contract to factor that in and Philip Walker has spent an awful lot as a benefactor to Laura. Also, if the horse is no longer in her yard then she is not selling her for him. Yes she has put value on the mare but that was her job.


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## glamourpuss (21 December 2013)

oldvic said:



			If this is a stupid question I apologise but if Noble Bestman is never going to event again then why all the vitriol about losing the ride and someone trying to take the ride? It happens even to the best but if the owners are happy with how they are treated and how their horse is being ridden then there is no problem. When you are in someone else's yard then you have to play by their rules, like it or not. 
I don't think anybody is bothered whether Laura has any days off or not but to say she doesn't is not true - she has put on twitter that she has gone to London for the weekend.
		
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Personall I don't think it was Noble Bestman that it was all about, it was just the timing of the status led us to think that was him that someone was trying to poach.


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## dingle12 (21 December 2013)

Where is Allora advertised? I'm sure if LAura wants her back she could get a syndicate together.


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## Bestdogdash (21 December 2013)

The only comment LC should have made, if she is the professional she should be, would be to Thank the Walkers for their support over the years and to wish them well. Regardless of the reasons they have gone separate ways. If she had only had NB one month she should have counted herself a very lucky girl. 

I own two international standard eventers who are with one of the countries top riders. It's is exceptionally expensive, and I could just as easily bring them home and have the two best hunters on the planet, and enjoy them myself. I event them this way because I enjoy it. My rider is not only an awesome rider, but is also professional, respectful, knowledgeable and great fun. That's how you get to the top - you have to be all of those things. I have changed riders in the past,  with other horses, and with one of these two,  for many reasons which meant I wasn't happy, but, frankly, as my bills were always paid immediately, everything was upto date, and therefore the contracts ran on a monthly basis, I was well within my rights to do so. My horse, my choice, my control and none of my previous riders ever felt the need to even hint about how they felt losing their rides via any medium at all. I respect that professionalism and have sent one a youngest I just bought from Ireland. LC has done herself NO favours at all? In my circle of similar owning friends, nobody I know would send a horse to her now. Why would we ? If she has a sulk, we get dragged into the public eye ? There are, as an earlier post has pointed out, plenty of other young equally talented riders available. Her mistake has been to either make or allow others to make, this issue about her, - in effect biting the hand that feeds her. Very very silly.


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## TarrSteps (21 December 2013)

^ that says it all! really. Straight from the horse's mouth.

I actually don't think the parallel with "celebrities" is valid though. Actors, television personalities, singers etc are very much supported by their fans and they have to behave in ways that appeal to their fan base. They may have contracts with actual employers but since their job is to sell, if they do that they are unlikely to get into trouble with them unless they do something really dramatic. Even if they do, there's no such thing as bad publicity and people routinely rise from the ashes to sell more tickets, helm another movie, have another tv show or otherwise continue to do business. They have to stay within their image, yes, but especially for younger or edgier stars that encompasses a lot of latitude!

Being a rider is very different. Fans do not pay the bills in eventing, owners do. Unless the rider is spectacularly wealthy and can fund their whole string, they need to stay on the right side of the people who have the money. Yes, some people have syndicates but even there, their target market is going to be well off, probably well into adulthood people who love the sport and invest because they enjoy seeing their horses go. They expect to be treated with the respect they deserve for pouring money into the sport with little hope of any renumeration. They certainly don't have to deal with drama. Yes, people can be very understanding if the horses are winning but they are doing this for fun, don't forget, and to be involved in the sport at a deeper level. 

Even sponsors are very aware of who their market is and how they want to portray their image through the people they associate with. The market for horse good is mostly patents and people who are old enough to have good jobs and disposable income. Again, very sensitive to any behaviour their perceive as ungrateful or unprofessional. 

Appealing to the "fans" won't get you very far. Unless the fans are going to buy you a horse.

That might not be what people want to hear but it is the reality as it works today.


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## Cortez (21 December 2013)

Spoiled. Brat.


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## dingle12 (22 December 2013)

Just a thought but people who have a problem with her, have u had any dealings with her or is it how she comes across to u?


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## TheMule (22 December 2013)

I had a nasty experience with her several years ago when she acted anything but professionally. It left me in a very difficult position which eventually went to small courts because of her allegations.


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## silu (22 December 2013)

dingle12 said:



			Just a thought but people who have a problem with her, have u had any dealings with her or is it how she comes across to u?
		
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Admittedly it was a few years back but to have the audacity to "rubbish" a 3 day event and then promptly go and win 1 of the sections does somewhat stick in the mind! Bet she hasn't spent weeks and weeks  painting fences at BE courses.....I have.


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## TarrSteps (22 December 2013)

dingle12 said:



			Just a thought but people who have a problem with her, have u had any dealings with her or is it how she comes across to u?
		
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Does it matter? We are just discussing reputation and social media presence. If you're in business everything you do is advertising and people assume the image you put out there is the one you want people to see.


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## almostthere (23 December 2013)

Bestdogdash said:



			The only comment LC should have made, if she is the professional she should be, would be to Thank the Walkers for their support over the years and to wish them well. Regardless of the reasons they have gone separate ways. If she had only had NB one month she should have counted herself a very lucky girl. 

I own two international standard eventers who are with one of the countries top riders. It's is exceptionally expensive, and I could just as easily bring them home and have the two best hunters on the planet, and enjoy them myself. I event them this way because I enjoy it. My rider is not only an awesome rider, but is also professional, respectful, knowledgeable and great fun. That's how you get to the top - you have to be all of those things. I have changed riders in the past,  with other horses, and with one of these two,  for many reasons which meant I wasn't happy, but, frankly, as my bills were always paid immediately, everything was upto date, and therefore the contracts ran on a monthly basis, I was well within my rights to do so. My horse, my choice, my control and none of my previous riders ever felt the need to even hint about how they felt losing their rides via any medium at all. I respect that professionalism and have sent one a youngest I just bought from Ireland. LC has done herself NO favours at all? In my circle of similar owning friends, nobody I know would send a horse to her now. Why would we ? If she has a sulk, we get dragged into the public eye ? There are, as an earlier post has pointed out, plenty of other young equally talented riders available. Her mistake has been to either make or allow others to make, this issue about her, - in effect biting the hand that feeds her. Very very silly.
		
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Completely and utterly agree, as a much more small time owner I wholeheartedly endorse every single world. Sadly, I learned the hard way


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## TarrSteps (23 December 2013)

That's it, isn't it? Owners are in it for the fun (within reason!) and the second it stops being fun, or at least a congenial experience, they're out. 

People do have funny ideas about "sponsorship" in equestrian sports. I think they read too many stories about 21 year old millionaire footballers.  it's still largely run on the patronage of people with a bit of money who love horses and want to be involved in competition at a high level. No one is in it for the money or, for that matter, the drama. Of course the sport wants to attract interest as that helps participation, gate revenue and the occasional media deal. But it is essentially still a leisure activity and the second riders forget it's owners that keep the lights on and the horses in oats, they and the sport will - rightly - suffer.


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