# Stage 3 - horse wouldn't move



## ReggieP (12 September 2013)

Had a problem today with my daughter's stage 3 exam. The horse provided did not move one inch despite trying all manner of things. Consequently she didn't even get to the jumping or cross country and hence failed the riding section. They then gave the horse to another girl but when it did not move for her (seemed it was probably lame) they replaced the horse so the other girl was able to pass.  This seems very unfair and we will be writing to BHS to complain. I just wanted to know if anybody else had come across this during their exams ? 

regs
Reg


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## Elbie (12 September 2013)

Sorry can't offer any help but does seem very unfair that they would let the other girl swap.


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## Fuzzypuff (12 September 2013)

That sounds really unfair! Surely when throughout the process the horse didn't want to move an experienced instructor at that yard should have gotten on to check if it was your daughter or the horse that was a problem. Have you complained to the exam centre too?


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## ReggieP (12 September 2013)

Fuzzypuff said:



			That sounds really unfair! Surely when throughout the process the horse didn't want to move an experienced instructor at that yard should have gotten on to check if it was your daughter or the horse that was a problem. Have you complained to the exam centre too?
		
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Just got the "how to complain" documents from BHS. The issue of if the horses / facilities are not up to scratch does not appear to come within their guidance / syllabus. Who I wonder checks prior to an exam that the horses are suitable (and what are these checks) and what is the process for deciding whether a horse should be swapped. It does all seems rather ad-hoc and subjective, with nothing written down.  BTW they charge a whopping £75 to lodge a formal complaint


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## Jenni_ (12 September 2013)

What an absolute shame. I can totally sympathise- I was also failed on part of a BHS exam for a completely unjust reason and for that reason decided not to ever sit them again. We also complained but it went nowhere unfortunately. I do hope it does for you.


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## soulfull (12 September 2013)

So unfair.  This is the reason I never did mine.  Heard so many many bad things, and like yours not just sour grapes which is what BHS seem to think
I hope you get a good response


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## ReggieP (12 September 2013)

Have learnt that the regulator for BHS examinations  is OFQUAL. 

This is clearly an issue relating to "access" and/or "administration" and/or poor professional conduct and so if no joy from BHS will make the complaint directly to OFQUAL. We are not going to question the fail ; clearly it is over so we cant do anything about that, but we will request a re-examination. 

Post note, have just heard that subsequent to the horse being swapped for the 2nd candidate, the blacksmith was called and the horse was declared lame !  Who on earth are the assessors that allow this type of thing to happen ?


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## ArabianBeauty (12 September 2013)

They are meant to replace the horse and not to penalize you for one that doesn't move. My friend had a similar horse in stage 2. it stopped at every single jump. They swapped it and she passed.


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## galaxy (12 September 2013)

She should have ridden 2 horses on the flat. How did she do on the other one? Did the examiners tell her exactly why she couldn't progress to jumping? She has to be deemed of an unsafe standard for then to do that.


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## Kokopelli (12 September 2013)

galaxy said:



			She should have ridden 2 horses on the flat. How did she do on the other one? Did the examiners tell her exactly why she couldn't progress to jumping? She has to be deemed of an unsafe standard for then to do that.
		
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I think now due to insurance purposes if you fail the flat you're not allowed to jump whether you're safe or not.

I really want to do my stage 3 soon but the place I want to do it is closing down so I have no idea where I want to do it now.


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## Pigeon (12 September 2013)

I've heard similar things too. Completely put me off ever doing them.


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## Kaylum (12 September 2013)

You need to phone the training centre and get her money back they basically took the mick. Which centre was it? So others can avoid the place.


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## Goldenstar (12 September 2013)

You hear this sort of thing just too much the BHS needs to get a grip of this pronto.


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## One More (12 September 2013)

Hi, 
I know this wasn't at quite the same level, but for my BHS Riding and Road Safety I was given a horse that was clearly lame, (as well as the saddle being extremely badly fitted), to the degree where I asked if I could change horses. I didn't feel comfortable riding a horse that could be in pain. I was told quite clearly that I would be instantly failed, I couldn't change horses, and quite frankly who was I to point out to the BHS examiners that the horse was unsuitable. In the end I backed down and rode the horse. I still feel embarrassed to this day that I was bullied into riding a very genuine horse who was probably in pain. Its put me right off doing anymore of the stages, I wish I knew who to contact as a complaint. Think I am a bit late now though! You aren't alone in being frustrated at their system.


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## ruth83 (12 September 2013)

Are you saying that throughout the entirety of the first horse section of the riding exam, your daughter stood in the centre of the school and could not move at all? Or that the horse was not forward going? I ask simply to clarify the situation.

If you speak directly with The BHS they will advise you of the procedure to be followed to persue a complaint. I believe your first port of call (though I am happy to be corrected by BHS Official) would be the Examinations Department, via the main switchboard on 02476840500. As you have already seen (and as is the case with similar practical tests such as the driving test) the outcome of the exam will not be changed but if the complaint is upheld a resit will be offered. 

As mentioned above, your daughters ability will have been assessed on the second horse. Unfortunately it is now the case that anyone who is unsuccesful in their flatwork section will not be allowed to jump. This is both for health and safety reasons and to protect the exam horses.

ETA - For those thinking that this happens 'all to regularly', The BHS holds several exams each week. Each exam has between 4 and 18 candidates. Complaints come from a very small percentage of those people. The BHS exams, as the OP has stated, are affiliated to OFQUAL and are regulated in the same way that GCSEs and A levels are. 

With regard riding and road safety, the situation here is a little different as the way the test centres are assessed and regulated are currently slightly different because candidates hire horses directly from the centre rather than the centre providing horses for The BHS. I don't wish to comment on a direct situation without having been there but if it was exactly as One More has described, an alternative horse should have been offered and speaking to the examiners would not have resulted in an automatic fail.


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## ReggieP (12 September 2013)

galaxy said:



			She should have ridden 2 horses on the flat. How did she do on the other one? Did the examiners tell her exactly why she couldn't progress to jumping? She has to be deemed of an unsafe standard for then to do that.
		
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She was only allowed this one on the flat and because she could not get it going, she was not allowed on the jumping and XC. She has been riding daily for 15 years and competing for 12 with success.  Her teachers include some of the biggest named in the uk, including fellows of the BHS . She complained to the examiners that there was a problem. They ignored her. The horse in question was subsequently examined with a blacksmith present and deemed to be lame!! The equestrian centre refuses to acknowledge any responsibility and simply passed my message to BHS. If you look on BHS for stage 3 today you can see which centre it was! 

I have raised a complaint to the highest level in BHS. In addition because this is not a syllabus testing problem , but more an issue of examination procedure, facilities, etc , it can be raised to OFQUAL as the regulator of BHS exams.


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## ruth83 (12 September 2013)

Please do not hold the centre responsible for the complaint, they are correct to refer you to The BHS - the complaint can only be dealt with by The BHS or OFQUAL, not by the centre.


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## ester (13 September 2013)

But aren't the centre responsible for providing suitable, sound horses?


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## Millie-Rose (13 September 2013)

Having been involved in the exams both as a candidate and working for a centre I would complain that she didn't get to ride a second horse . IMO she should have ridden the second horse and as long as she then appeared competent should have gone on to jumping where they would have had plenty of chance to assess her. Even in the sj section you have to warm up on the flat then pop a x pole they could have let her do that then retired her if felt she was unsafe. 
In my stage 3 my first horse was a lovely dressage schoolmaster so I floated round feeling smug of course the examiners are not idiots so they swapped me with a girl who was struggling with a green not very forward going cob. This gave us both a chance to show what we could do. 
From a centre perspective if we had an issue with a horse (usually being too fresh)y we never had a lame one so can't coment. It was either swapped out or if candidate coping they were allowed to continue but were then given an easy second horse. For example horse unsettled in the wind in a stage 1 candidate couldn't show 2 point as horse  strong horse was taken out after her ride and she was given an easy second horse so she could show 2 point and work without stirrups.


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## ruth83 (13 September 2013)

ester said:



			But aren't the centre responsible for providing suitable, sound horses?
		
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What I am saying is that the chain of responsibility means that the centre cannot be held responsible for dealing with the complaint directly. The complaint must come via The BHS as the centre were providing a service to The BHS who were, in turn, providing a service to the candidates. 

I am also uncertain as to why your daughter did not ride a second horse on the flat but as I was not there I cannot really offer comment. This can only usefully be dealt with by The BHS where there will have been several assessors and the centres manager or chief instructor who will know exactly what the situation was.


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## galaxy (13 September 2013)

Not even being allowed to complete the flat session is highly odd and that is absolutely worth going to the BHS about. Not being put forward to the jumping sections is one thing, but to complete the flat ridden section you are required to ride 2 different horses.


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## Jade Holleman (15 September 2013)

I had this problem when I took my Stage 3 years ago.  I got a very unhappy horse for my jumping....couldn't get it to go and it really didn't want to jump.  I got half way round the course and the horse just stopped.  I said to the examiners that I was not happy with the horse but they said to continue which I did but the horse wasn't havin any of it.  Afterwards I found out the horse was really lame and on bute!


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## teapot (15 September 2013)

Kokopelli said:



			I think now due to insurance purposes if you fail the flat you're not allowed to jump whether you're safe or not.

I really want to do my stage 3 soon but the place I want to do it is closing down so I have no idea where I want to do it now.
		
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Have only ever heard good things about Huntley and that's reasonably close to you (if your location's correct). 

As for OP - I'd try and complain. Hopefully the BHS poster on here will see this thread too.


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## TableDancer (15 September 2013)

teapot said:



			Have only ever heard good things about Huntley and that's reasonably close to you (if your location's correct). 

As for OP - I'd try and complain. Hopefully the BHS poster on here will see this thread too.
		
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Huntley is the one that's closing down unfortunately.


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## ruth83 (15 September 2013)

The BHS are aware of this and I understand have been in touch with the OP.


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## teapot (15 September 2013)

TableDancer said:



			Huntley is the one that's closing down unfortunately.
		
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Really?! That's a real shame.


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## henryhorn (15 September 2013)

In my experience you will be wasting your time.
My daughter got mixed up with another girl when they were told to go out of order. 
Despite having a watching BHSI and BHS Int tell them afterwards they were mistaken and posting them a photo they would not change their minds and admit there had been a mistake. The other girl failed her lungeing session whilst my daughter had according to all who were there excelled. She was so angry she never took another exam. She has excelled in her career grooming for the top event riders at 4 *  in the UK and Internationally and is now a successful rider herself. You can imagine what she says when her Badminton winning employer was happy for her to ride and lunge his event horses yet the BHS consider her incompetent...


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## weebarney (15 September 2013)

Oh poor horses , what a life


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## Marydoll (16 September 2013)

Id like to say im surprised but im not, meanwhile the BHS will happily continue to take your cash for these expensive exams, find another route and hit them where it hurts .... In the pocket by training elsewhere


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## Patterdale (16 September 2013)

So your daughter couldn't make the horse go, but someone else could?? That would say to me that your daughters ability was in question here. Sorry. 
Stage 3 is a long way above Stage 2 and takes months of preparation, even if you are experienced. It's not enough just to ride your own, or just well schooled horses. They don't give you schoolmasters or push button horses. 

I get fed up of all this BHS bashing and suspect we are not getting the full story here. 

In my stage 3 my xc horse refused almost every jump, violently and totally naughtily. I got it round regardless, and passed. 
They don't fail you if you get a problem horse, they fail you if you can't RIDE the problem horse. If I'd not managed that horse, perhaps I'd be on here complaining that they failed me because my xc horse refused every jump, wouldn't I? But I made sure I was properly prepared before putting in for the exam. 

A good example is in my stage 2. The girl lunging next to me in the arena sent her horse off with a big whip crack on a small circle. The horse jumped forwards, was pulled on the rope, lost balance and fell over onto its side. The girl was taken out of the exam and was heard complaining loudly that the horse was 'unsuitable' and 'far too unbalanced' to be lunged, and that if they dared fail her over that then she'd be complaining. 
I wonder what story her family and friends heard? 

Most people tend to complain about the BHS because they've not met the required standard. Remember that BHS examiners are not pen pushers following pointless rules, they are mainly experienced and practical riders who teach and compete at high standards. 

OP this is not all aimed at you, but all the BHS bashing really winds me up. If you meet the required standard, you pass. If you don't, you fail.


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## Charem (16 September 2013)

Um, from what I read the other girl couldn't get the horse to go either and it was subsequently checked by a farrier who deemed it to be lame.

Sounds very frustrating OP. Hope you can get a free re-test.


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## Caol Ila (16 September 2013)

My reading of the OP was that another girl could not get the horse to go either, but she was given another horse and subsequently passed the exam.


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## Patterdale (16 September 2013)

Apologies - I read the OP wrongly on that part. But I stand by the rest of my post. Having sat the exams, viewed many and knowing a chief examiner very well, I think I have a fairly good knowledge of the BHS exams. 
Yes, to err is human and every now and then a centre gets it wrong. But in 99.9% of cases the candidate was at fault, under-prepared, or riding/handling in an unsafe manner, and has decided to blame it on the horse/examiner/whoever. 

I still believe there is more to this than has been told, for a candidate to not be allowed to continue in the flatwork section they have to have done something fairly bad. 
Don't forget, the riding exam is not done behind closed doors with only candidate and examiner present. There is more than one examiner, all the other candidates, and whoever is around at the centre. 
People DO NOT get sent out just for having a lame horse. There has to be more to this. A team of examiners would not just send one rider out for having a lame horse but give the other one a different horse in the way that has been described. 

I've seen too many instances where people have been below the required standard, failed and then blamed the BHS. To not fair IMO.


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## Jenni_ (16 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			Apologies - I read the OP wrongly on that part. But I stand by the rest of my post. Having sat the exams, viewed many and knowing a chief examiner very well, I think I have a fairly good knowledge of the BHS exams. 
Yes, to err is human and every now and then a centre gets it wrong. But in 99.9% of cases the candidate was at fault, under-prepared, or riding/handling in an unsafe manner, and has decided to blame it on the horse/examiner/whoever. 

I still believe there is more to this than has been told, for a candidate to not be allowed to continue in the flatwork section they have to have done something fairly bad. 
Don't forget, the riding exam is not done behind closed doors with only candidate and examiner present. There is more than one examiner, all the other candidates, and whoever is around at the centre. 
People DO NOT get sent out just for having a lame horse. There has to be more to this. A team of examiners would not just send one rider out for having a lame horse but give the other one a different horse in the way that has been described. 

I've seen too many instances where people have been below the required standard, failed and then blamed the BHS. To not fair IMO.
		
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In my case, I felt my bashing was justified. Our examiner was going on about how the centre has kept them waiting and how we were very behind time and could everyone keep this even more in mind when being 'time efficient'

I'm tacking up for lunging, she's stressing everyone out, I don't 'fit' my saddle but tell her when she comes round that the reason I didn't do this is because I worked at the centre and had watched this horse have its saddle fitted less than 2 days ago, I KNOW that it fits but if it had been a strange horse I would have fitted it, but I was aware of our time constraints for the exam and had tried to use my time 'efficiently' 

I also pointed out that the reason I had odd boots on was that there wasn't a complete set in the box, but only one brushing and one tendon boot. Instead of walking around gormlously for a full set when they had again asked us to keep an eye on the time, I fitted both to the front legs, explained this to the examiner, and explained that I would prefer the brushing boots for lunging but thought instead of fitting no boots, I would show that I could fit both. She nodded, checked the fit, even SAID 'yes they fit' and walked away. 

Sheet back and failed care on lunging, for boots and saddle. I was FUMING. Passed the riding with not one cross. We appealed but nothing came of it.

On the other hand, I have seen people pass levels that really shouldn't have. 

Have been looking into the UKCC direction as have spoken to many people and they agree that this seems to be a more fairer way of examining.


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## EventingMum (16 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			Apologies - I read the OP wrongly on that part. But I stand by the rest of my post. Having sat the exams, viewed many and knowing a chief examiner very well, I think I have a fairly good knowledge of the BHS exams. 
Yes, to err is human and every now and then a centre gets it wrong. But in 99.9% of cases the candidate was at fault, under-prepared, or riding/handling in an unsafe manner, and has decided to blame it on the horse/examiner/whoever. 

I still believe there is more to this than has been told, for a candidate to not be allowed to continue in the flatwork section they have to have done something fairly bad. 
Don't forget, the riding exam is not done behind closed doors with only candidate and examiner present. There is more than one examiner, all the other candidates, and whoever is around at the centre. 
People DO NOT get sent out just for having a lame horse. There has to be more to this. A team of examiners would not just send one rider out for having a lame horse but give the other one a different horse in the way that has been described. 

I've seen too many instances where people have been below the required standard, failed and then blamed the BHS. To not fair IMO.
		
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Totally agree, I have a good working knowledge of the exam system and this just wouldn't happen the way it's being portrayed.



Jenni_ said:



			In my case, I felt my bashing was justified. Our examiner was going on about how the centre has kept them waiting and how we were very behind time and could everyone keep this even more in mind when being 'time efficient'

I'm tacking up for lunging, she's stressing everyone out, I don't 'fit' my saddle but tell her when she comes round that the reason I didn't do this is because I worked at the centre and had watched this horse have its saddle fitted less than 2 days ago, I KNOW that it fits but if it had been a strange horse I would have fitted it, but I was aware of our time constraints for the exam and had tried to use my time 'efficiently' 

I also pointed out that the reason I had odd boots on was that there wasn't a complete set in the box, but only one brushing and one tendon boot. Instead of walking around gormlously for a full set when they had again asked us to keep an eye on the time, I fitted both to the front legs, explained this to the examiner, and explained that I would prefer the brushing boots for lunging but thought instead of fitting no boots, I would show that I could fit both. She nodded, checked the fit, even SAID 'yes they fit' and walked away. 

Sheet back and failed care on lunging, for boots and saddle. I was FUMING. Passed the riding with not one cross. We appealed but nothing came of it.

On the other hand, I have seen people pass levels that really shouldn't have. 

Have been looking into the UKCC direction as have spoken to many people and they agree that this seems to be a more fairer way of examining.
		
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The UKCC would assess your coaching skills not your riding or stable management.


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## Jenni_ (16 September 2013)

EventingMum said:



			The UKCC would assess your coaching skills not your riding or stable management.
		
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And that is ultimately the only reason I ever wanted to take the BHS exams- to teach. You don't HAVE to be able to do the stable management side of things to BHS standards to be a good instructor. I know I can put a rug on a horse etc. Fair enough its good to know more about the anatomy side and feeding side etc, but any horse person who wanted to teach should feel that they should research this out of interest themselves anyway. 

Suppose its different if you wanted to go on and coach others to take their BHS exams...


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## Patterdale (16 September 2013)

Jenni_ said:



			And that is ultimately the only reason I ever wanted to take the BHS exams- to teach. You don't HAVE to be able to do the stable management side of things to BHS standards to be a good instructor. I know I can put a rug on a horse etc. Fair enough its good to know more about the anatomy side and feeding side etc, but any horse person who wanted to teach should feel that they should research this out of interest themselves anyway. 

Suppose its different if you wanted to go on and coach others to take their BHS exams...
		
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What a load of rubbish!

Incidentally, in your exam I wouldn't have dreamed of taking a horse out to lunge with one tendon boot and one brushing boot on. I would have asked for matching boots, any more than i would at home or on someone elses yard. And they would have provided them. 
Also, if I was told to fit a saddle, I would have demonstrated fitting a saddle. Even if it was my own horse and I was a master saddler, the examiner wants to see you FIT a saddle. So you could say, 'I know this saddle belongs to this horse, but here are the points I would check to ensure a good fit, and this is how I would do it.' So if you were asked to fit a saddle, and DIDNT fit a saddle, then I can totally see why you failed!


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## Jenni_ (16 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			What a load of rubbish!

Incidentally, in your exam I wouldn't have dreamed of taking a horse out to lunge with one tendon boot and one brushing boot on. I would have asked for matching boots, any more than i would at home or on someone elses yard. And they would have provided them. 
Also, if I was told to fit a saddle, I would have demonstrated fitting a saddle. Even if it was my own horse and I was a master saddler, the examiner wants to see you FIT a saddle. So you could say, 'I know this saddle belongs to this horse, but here are the points I would check to ensure a good fit, and this is how I would do it.' So if you were asked to fit a saddle, and DIDNT fit a saddle, then I can totally see why you failed!
		
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Obviously I wouldn't take a horse out with odd boots! But I worked with what I had and used my time efficiently like they'd asked. I fitted both and quickly said the pros and cons and which one I'd prefer to lunge in overall. I wasn't taking it out to be lunged, just tacking it up. In your exams you don't get to tack up the horse you're lunging- it comes to you ready. There were two boots in the bucket, both could be used for lunging, didn't want to waste time mooching about interupting folk who were busy and stressing out themselves so I quietly just got on with it and gave appropriate answers. If I was pulling the horse out to BE lunged then I'd have made sure I had a full set. 

Again, I said to her what I would check IF I was fitting a saddle. In hindsight I should have kept my big fat honest mouth shut and lied and said I'd fitted it. Totally obvious that the saddle fitted and I ran through how I knew that. But there again, I got penalised for adhering to what they'd said about 'hurrying up' What I said when she asked if I'd fitted the saddle was 'No, as I know that this horses saddle fits it as I witnessed the saddler out on Tuesday, but this is only because I am aware we are short of time today. If I was tacking up a strange horse then I would fit it completely and would check it fitted as (XYZ)

It was not a good day. Whole exam was rushed through and we got spilt into groups and 10 minutes into the practical girls got pulled out as they were meant to be in the group riding.


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## EventingMum (16 September 2013)

Jenni_ said:



			Obviously I wouldn't take a horse out with odd boots! But I worked with what I had and used my time efficiently like they'd asked. I fitted both and quickly said the pros and cons and which one I'd prefer to lunge in overall. I wasn't taking it out to be lunged, just tacking it up. In your exams you don't get to tack up the horse you're lunging- it comes to you ready. There were two boots in the bucket, both could be used for lunging, didn't want to waste time mooching about interupting folk who were busy and stressing out themselves so I quietly just got on with it and gave appropriate answers. If I was pulling the horse out to BE lunged then I'd have made sure I had a full set.
		
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Just as a point of interest in Stage 2 now you do tack up the horse and then lunge it.


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## Marydoll (16 September 2013)

It seems people have differing experiences Although i passed all my stages 1-3 i found much of the equipment required, faulty or non existant, at one time being told to "do your best with what youve got" well whatever way you cut it, a 5ft 3 rug aint fitting a horse needing a 6ft 3.
I saw horses pulled out to use that werent suitable, and in fact i had to ride one in my stage 2 that was an absolute ar$e bucking and cayrrying on every time it was asked to canter, and im not talking a flick of the heels im talking handstands down the school, me hauling its head up :-o
I spent 20 mins schooling the little chit to transition into canter without attitude, it was then removed as unsuitable for stage 2 students, i was lucky, i could sit it out and it peed me off so much it was worked until it did as i asked , but someone else might not have been so lucky and might have come off or failed on something else because their nerve went. At stage 2 you are asked to work in a well schooled horse to show improvement, that horse certainly didnt meet that bill on theat day, and its not the first ive seen that didnt fit the bill.
I decided after passing my 3 not to spend any more on the expensive BHS where i felt it was a hit or a miss, i followed the UKCC route for teaching/coaching and was subsidised so it saved me a fortune, i also get reduced rate insurance cover through them.


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## ruth83 (16 September 2013)

I absolutely agree with everything Patterdale and EventingMum have said.

I have referred the OP to The BHS as, from her post, the description of the experience is not what is standard procedure for the Stage 3 exam. However the situation played out, the OP needs some sort of clarification on the circumstances. None of us can give that as we were not there. 

I am also very annoyed at the 'BHS Bashing'. As I have already said, the number of complainants would appear to be a very small proportion of the number who take exams each week/month/year. The system is not perfect. I cannot think of one which is. Constantly I hear cries of 'The BHS needs to change' from people who then quote experiences from 10 years ago or 'facts' from exams which are 2 syllabus changes out of date. The BHS HAS and IS changing. It may still not be perfect but I believe it is moving in the right direction. 

I did not pass all of my exams first time. It would have been VERY easy for me to stomp my feet, say the system is rubbish and step out of it but the simple fact was I was not up to standard. When I passed it meant all the more because of that. My qualifications (combined with experience, personality and bl00dy hard work - I come to this conclusion from the feedback I have had) have opened a hell of a lot of doors for me and that is WHY I keep pushing myself to go further with it. There is a reason there are only around 65 FBHS's in the whole world. 

Jenni_ I do not wish to dwell on this point but I seem to recall you telling this story a few times before. Only previously you had put exercise bandages on the horse for lunging as this was what he normally wore when you worked with him which, as someone pointed out at the time, is not appropriately protective for the majority of lunge horses - hence why you were unsuccesful at that attempt.


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## zaminda (16 September 2013)

I also find some of the BHS bashing slightly tiresome. Mainly because people also moan about how low the standard is at other times!
I'm disappointed to hear about Huntley closing, although haven't been able to find anything about it shutting via google, as I was hoping to take my stage 3 there too!
I think they have improved there way of doing things hugely, although I do find it disappointing that you get very little feedback post exam. I passed mine, but it would have been nice to see if they felt you were scrapping the standard, or well above, and in which areas, so you know which areas need the most work.


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## Tiffany (16 September 2013)

What a shame and if they exchange horse for one rider they should do it for the other - very unfair. Your daughter must be very disappointed.


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## Honey08 (16 September 2013)

Having done my one and two at equestrian centres that I didn't know, and my three at a centre I was training at, I personally think that all  candidates should have to do exams where they do not know the horses or equipment.  That way its a blank canvas and you couldn't end up with people making the same mistake as Jenni (who I think should have acted as though she didn't know the horse and asked for other boots etc).

Its a shame the way things have gone nowadays in that you don't get  the results and comments there and then, as you did in my day.  That way you could discuss their comments and make sure that you fully understood them.  I believe it was due to over aggressive candidates and their doting parents that put an end to that.  

I failed my stage 2 first time round.  I actually think it did me good and took me down a peg or two.  Made me be a little more serious in my next one and actually think what I was saying and doing more.  And yes, sometimes the wrong rugs were put out, or things that didn't fit properly, but it was how you fitted them and what you said that counts.


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## maxie (16 September 2013)

Yep, I'm with Ruth83, the BHS bashing can get over the top in here sometimes. I've got my AI through BHS exams (including a failed attempt at Stage 3 when I was underprepared) and at every single exam I've had two horses to ride on the flat. 

I would suspect that if the OP's daughter did not get to ride her second horse, she must have been deemed unsafe to continue by the examiners....whose job it is to examine & make judgements based on what is in front of them. 

BTW, you are completely entitled, I understand, to express reservations about the horse regarding lameness to the examiners, who will provide an alternative horse if necessary.


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## charlie76 (16 September 2013)

Jenni_ said:



			In my case, I felt my bashing was justified. Our examiner was going on about how the centre has kept them waiting and how we were very behind time and could everyone keep this even more in mind when being 'time efficient'

I'm tacking up for lunging, she's stressing everyone out, I don't 'fit' my saddle but tell her when she comes round that the reason I didn't do this is because I worked at the centre and had watched this horse have its saddle fitted less than 2 days ago, I KNOW that it fits but if it had been a strange horse I would have fitted it, but I was aware of our time constraints for the exam and had tried to use my time 'efficiently' 

I also pointed out that the reason I had odd boots on was that there wasn't a complete set in the box, but only one brushing and one tendon boot. Instead of walking around gormlously for a full set when they had again asked us to keep an eye on the time, I fitted both to the front legs, explained this to the examiner, and explained that I would prefer the brushing boots for lunging but thought instead of fitting no boots, I would show that I could fit both. She nodded, checked the fit, even SAID 'yes they fit' and walked away. 

Sheet back and failed care on lunging, for boots and saddle. I was FUMING. Passed the riding with not one cross. We appealed but nothing came of it.

On the other hand, I have seen people pass levels that really shouldn't have. 

Have been looking into the UKCC direction as have spoken to many people and they agree that this seems to be a more fairer way of examining.
		
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I am not surprised they failed you to be honest in this case. You shouldn't have just assumed that the saddle fitted as you had worked there before. They may have put a different saddle on for the purpose of assessing you. Also with regards to the boots I would have put none on and ask for a full set of matching boots. They want you to do what you would do in real life if you are left in charge of a yard. 

I get fed up with the BHS bashing as well. Those who have their BHS qualifications work hard for them and despite what is stated on here, they do actually have to have bit of knowledge to pass them once you get to stage 3. Most people could fumble their way through 1 & 2 with some reading and some basic help but three and above are a lot more in depth. 

I have my BHSI stable managers and my BHSI senior coach certificate. I also have my UKCC level 3 coaching certificate.  I worked very hard to gain those. To pass my stage 4 care I had to know I depth detail about selecting brood mares and breeding. Know everything about the endocrine, reproductive, respitory , circulatory systems, I had to know every nutrient and vitamin in feed and what it was used for. I had to know the anatomy of the eye, lower leg and everything about foot balance. As well as every day things such as putting on a knee or hock bandage, lecture a student in taking TPR and in depth knowledge of grass land management. 
In the stable managers I had give a twenty min lecture on the conformation of the horse in front of me, select a horse to purchase and why, know all there is to k ow about artificial insemintaion, fitting 4 * horses, international sj and dressage horses, golden horse shoe endurance horses, talk about medication, tack, worming, know all there is to know about running a yard as a business, riding school requirements , health and safety, COSHH, RIDDOR, book keeping etc and give a prepared lecture inc hand outs. Plus much more. 
Riding wise for the four you ride to medium on the flat, jump approx newcomers height SJ and BE novice cross country, You also lunged a green horse with pole work. You need to be able to discuss in horse in depth and age every horse you work with. 
I taught to advanced level on the flat in the senior coach exam, gave a commentary on other people's lessons, taught a jump lesson to fox hunter level and have to have an large knowledge of training horses to these levels. 
I also sat , but not yet achieved my riding part of the BHSI exam, again it is demanding, riding two horses to adabmced/ psg level on the flat, jumping to fox hunter height SJ and XC BE intermediate, again, you need to have a lot of knowledge of competing at these levels, you also have to lunge very green young horses and be able to talk about your training methods. 
You really have to be out there , doing things. 
People who think the BHS exams are a waste of time are usually the ones not achieving them. 
I do think however the OP has cause for complain TBH. 

I have been at the raw end of the BHS exams system. In my last exam, the equitation part of the BHSI , I felt it went ok, the horses went well on the flat, I improved the sharp horse so much so that the staff said he looked brilliant, I also felt my discussion was relevant, my SJ horse jumped clear other than one stop which was a lack of power which I then corrected and she jumped very well. My cross country horse was renowned for stopping but jumped clear and my lunge horse improved. 
However, I didn't pass, when I looked at my results sheet the comments didn't reflect how I felt it went and all but one section was initialled by the wrong examiners, examiners that hadn't even seen me. When I questioned it I was old it was a printing error and the comments were correct.. I could do know more as it was my word against theirs. 
Expensive printing error though!! 

It didn't stop me going through my UKCC though and I would still persue my BHSI.


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## Caol Ila (16 September 2013)

With BHS exams happening as frequently as people say they do, I am sure that someone somewhere screws it up.  That's human nature, isn't it?


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## Cortez (16 September 2013)

I took my BHS exams 20+ years ago and ended up writing a letter of complaint about the standard of horses provided for the exam (I passed all 3 stages in one go, but it really was unfair for the less experienced candidates, being asked to perform movements that the horses clearly were not schooled for or capable of). Sad to hear that this is still going on, but would question if this was the only issue with the OP's examination?


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## Clare85 (16 September 2013)

I have just seen this thread and am also surprised that the OP's daughter was not allowed to complete the flatwork section on a second horse. I passed my Stage 3 riding in July and as I understand things, you assess your first horse and ride the second with the aim of improving its way of going. Both my horses in my exam were very green and the second was a big heavy cob type who was completely built on his forehand. We were asked to work on turns on the forehand, canter transitions and lengthening/shortening of stride. Well, I did a couple of turns on the forehand and a couple of lengthenings/shortenings and realised that this wasn't helping my lad and so moved on to the transitions for the remainder of the session. I then fully explained to the examiner why I had done this, recognised that he was not established enough to cope with some of the movements she has asked us to ride, and also explained what I would continue to do if I had him to work on for a couple of week. If things are as the OP has stated then it doesn't seem very fair that his daughter was not allowed to continue to the second horse and sounds a very unusual situation - I can only assume she was well below the standard. Maybe they saw something in the other girl that made them want to see more of her, and the OPs daughter just was not quite there yet. Hate to play devil's advocate here but, hopefully the examiner would have explained to the daughter why she was not being allowed to continue. Could this be a case of a young girl who is understandably upset and embarrassed at failing her exam, and then relaying a slightly skewed version of events to her father? I feel very sorry for her but hope she can take the positives from this and work to achieve the standard in the future.

At Stage 3 level they may require you to ride all sorts of horses, you should be at a level where you can recognise what needs to be done with a horse and explain your plan for each individual animal. They are not looking for whether a horse can perform certain school movements - they are looking to see whether you recognise what the horse is capable of and therefore, ride accordingly.


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## siennamum (17 September 2013)

These threads all ends up the same with a variety of people saying they had an iffy experience doing BHS exams, and an opposing group vociferously claiming they are all lying/deluded.

When I (and 9 other candidates) failed our riding at stage 2 it was ludicrous. The big problem for me was the quality of horses and the discrepancy between the high riding standard of some of the candidates and the very low standard of horses provided.

I am a huge fan of the BHS and actually rate the exams, especially at stage 3 & above, it's just a shame there aren't more good riding schools/ECs in the UK. I retook my 2 at Huntley, and ensured I booked my 3 there so I could have some guarantees that the horses were able to do the work required in comfort.


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## EventingMum (17 September 2013)

As many have said some centres struggle to get the numbers of horses at the desired level on a  exam day. This can be for any number of reasons, horses go lame, get sold etc etc and also economics may play a part with it becoming increasingly difficult to justify keeping horses of a standard if the day to day clientele doesn't warrant it. Assessors are well aware that this may be the case and at this level would expect the candidate to assess the horse and work it accordingly if it is not ready to fulfilling the brief given. When changing to the second horse it is common practice to move a candidate on to a more suitable horse if it is felt the candidate has been unable to demonstrate their ability fully on the first horse. That said, if the candidate is clearly below standard on either horse they will not pass. In a ideal world all horses used would work at or above the desired level but in the real world this won't always happen and bear in mind it's unlikely that the candidate will work in equestrian utopia either. Personally I would rather employ someone who can work with the less than perfect horse than someone who has only ever experienced foot perfect paragons of virtue as sadly I don't have many of these on my yard.

Assessors are also very aware that candidates performing well above the required standard can make those working at the required standard look weaker and must bear this in mind and not be influenced by the superior candidate but apply the criteria for passing to each individual.

No system is perfect but neither are many candidates and the BHS is constantly monitoring and updating exam procedures and practices, today's exams are far removed from those in days gone by so comparing them is really a pointless exercise.


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## Clare85 (17 September 2013)

siennamum said:



			The big problem for me was the quality of horses and the discrepancy between the high riding standard of some of the candidates and the very low standard of horses provided.
		
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I'm a little confused by this statement - if the standard of riders was so high then surely they would have been able to get something out of the horses??? It depends on what you class as a 'low standard' of horse. There were a number of girls from a college in my exam, who were obviously used to riding push button schoolmasters and they were surprised by how much more difficult they found the exam horses (we took our exam at a riding school). Whilst they were riding school horses, I found they were also capable of performing to a good standard and were capable of the requirements for Stage 3. They yweren't necessarily the easiest horses to ride, but I would not describe them as a 'low standard'. 

In my experience, a horse will go as well as it is ridden, within its capabilities. For example, in my exam there was a girl in my group who had a lot of trouble with her SJ horse, she couldn't seem to get her going at all, horse and rider crashed through a jump at one point. The examiners stopped her half way through her round. In some cases they may have let her try again on a different horse; however, they had already watched that same horse jump a lovely clear with her previous rider.

Again, they are not examining the horses, they are examining the riders. In my experience, BHS examiners are very experienced and knowledgeable horsemen/women. They see countless riders every week and they know what they are looking at. In most cases (with exceptions for illness/injury/behavioral issues), the way a horse is going is a reflection of who is on board. The point is that the rider should realise the level of their horse and ride it accordingly, and then be able to explain this to the examiner. As long as the way they rode the horse and the explanation of why match up then they will generally be at the required standard for a Stage 3 examination.


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## charlie76 (17 September 2013)

I quite agree with clare85. If you are a good effective rider then you should be able to get any horse going to some extent and you should have enough knowledge to be able discuss any issues you have and how you would resolve them long term. 
my stage 4 horse was very nappy, when i turned away from home he totally dropped me and crashed , he broke three poles! I picked him.up, gave him a slap and carried on jumping clear.I could discuss what and happened and why. I passed. 
They arent looking for perfect people, they are looking for practical people. PEople that could get out in the industry and do a job.


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## siennamum (17 September 2013)

I think better riders struggled at Stage 2 (though not at 3) because they misjudged the style of riding expected. You had to be very obvious in your aids and pretty bullying to the horses, the horse I was on was knackered and so I made it do it's job but no more, as I mistakenly felt sorry for it & I was described as not effective. It jumped the jumps out of an active pace & into a light contact. They wanted it to be overridden in quite an obvious way - a girl who was in my group who passed ( I suspect) gave her horse which was quietly nodding off a good belting in the corner prior to her round, the examiners missed this,  but thoroughly approved of the animated way the horse went.
There seems to be a view, and always is on these threads, that people like me are lying or aggrieved. I am not aggrieved, I only did the exams for fun. A girl in my group was training intensively with one of the UK's top BHS trainers (at her BHS exam centre), and had her stage 3 booked a few weeks after her stage 2. She was a Swedish Young rider squad person, can't remember all the details, but a fabulous rider. She also rode quietly and didn't do anything unnecessary, she was failed also.

I clearly lacked exam technique more than anything, as presumably did the 9 people out of 12 who took their stage 2 the day I did and failed on their riding. At stage 2 I don't remember any discussion about my riding, or the horses way of going.


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## EventingMum (17 September 2013)

siennamum said:



			I think better riders struggled at Stage 2 (though not at 3) because they misjudged the style of riding expected. You had to be very obvious in your aids and pretty bullying to the horses, the horse I was on was knackered and so I made it do it's job but no more, as I mistakenly felt sorry for it & I was described as not effective. It jumped the jumps out of an active pace & into a light contact. They wanted it to be overridden in quite an obvious way - a girl who was in my group who passed ( I suspect) gave her horse which was quietly nodding off a good belting in the corner prior to her round, the examiners missed this,  but thoroughly approved of the animated way the horse went.
There seems to be a view, and always is on these threads, that people like me are lying or aggrieved. I am not aggrieved, I only did the exams for fun. A girl in my group was training intensively with one of the UK's top BHS trainers (at her BHS exam centre), and had her stage 3 booked a few weeks after her stage 2. She was a Swedish Young rider squad person, can't remember all the details, but a fabulous rider. She also rode quietly and didn't do anything unnecessary, she was failed also.

I clearly lacked exam technique more than anything, as presumably did the 9 people out of 12 who took their stage 2 the day I did and failed on their riding. At stage 2 I don't remember any discussion about my riding, or the horses way of going.
		
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I would tend to agree, the average competition rider will often not be used to the type of horses regularly found in a stage 2 exam so may be out of their comfort zone. However from a centre's point of view at stage 2 they wouldn't want to provide super sensitive competition horses even if they had such horses as many candidates would not be capable of riding them well and may actually have a detrimental effect on such a horse. Remember stage 2 is the first level jumping is seen at and centres and assessors have little knowledge beforehand of most of the candidates other than their heights and weights so the standard of riding on the day can often be a nightmare or a pleasant surprise for all concerned. Justifiably centres will want to err on the side of caution to safeguard their higher level horses, rightly so IMO at this level.

At stage 2 you wouldn't have a discussion on the horses at of going or training - this comes in at stage 3.


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## nic85 (17 September 2013)

I think we are 'hearing' one side to the event. We don't know what actually happened on the day, only what has been said on here. 

I bypassed my stage one as completed my NVQ level 2 , I was told I could have gone straight to do my 3 but I knew as I had not done an exam before I would know what was expected of me to opted to do my stage 2.

I did mine at Pencoed college about 10 years ago ( Oh my god!) out of about 20 candidates there were 3 of us who did not attend that college and 1 was only doing the care. It was busy, we were split into groups and did as we were told. I remember putting brushing boots on ( think it was tacking up for lunging) and the boots were odd, all brushing boots but had 3 left ones and 1 right one, the tack we were to use was already placed out for us and the boots were rolled up in pairs so not noticeable until you went to put them on, no other tack was available. This was discussed with the examiner. I passed. 
I also found the riding quite interesting, I had on the flat a giraffe, it was a nice horse but preferred to go with its nose poking out, it did this with myself and its 2nd rider. My 2nd horse was a flat backed cob and was super comfortable for doing the trotting with no stirrups  
The jumping part was interesting as everyone in my group all knew the horses and kept saying 'Oh you don't want 'Bob'  (cant remember its name now!) ' Its horrible to jump and stops all the time' well guess who I got, yes the one that was supposedly rubbish, well I had a blast!! He was super, really quick, jumped brilliantly and I think I grinned the whole way round. I passed.

I do recall a girl boasting about how good she was at lunging, she was at a Distinction with her lunging don't you know, and when it came to it it was like watching a car crash, the horse just kept cantering round and round and she broke down in tears, was awful to witness. I was the 2nd person  to lunge my horse who was slow and completely backwards, so I worked on transitions within the pace, by the end of my 10 mins or however long it was there was a huge improvement on the horses way of going, I didn't use the side reins and explained to the examiner when asked. I passed.

I never did my stage 3 as I just couldn't afford the exam prices, Id love to do my stages but Im quite rusty, I don't have the time to train like I used to and to be honest I don't think Im as good as I used to be so it would be a waste of money.

I don't know if the exams have changed at all to include how much technology has come on/improved/changed and training methods, feeding, tack etc etc..... Hmm would be interesting to attend a HS exam now just to be a fly on the wall!!


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## teapot (17 September 2013)

Not sure Nic - the Stage 1 syllabus still refers to 'New Zealand' rug. How many people still use them? 

Interesting that you can now sit the exams by unit (costs more obviously)...


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## Cortez (17 September 2013)

The requirement for my stage 3 riding on the flat exam was to show lengthenings in trot and canter, shoulder-in and leg yield. There was NO WAY that those horses had any idea what shoulder-in was, nor leg yield, and as for lengthening; what a joke. I was 30 when I took the exams, and a competitive dressage rider. I passed (by actually training my horse to do the movements on the spot) but the other students in my ride did not and it was mad to expect them to be able to show movements that the horses could not do. I wrote a letter of complaint to the BHS (probably slightly unusual in that I was the only one who had actually passed). I thought that it was now standard for the examiners to ride the horses before the exam?


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## Blythe Spirit (18 September 2013)

What an interesting thread. I did my stages 1 2 3 and PTT about 16 years ago and passed them all first time. My stage 1 I just decided to take one day as I had been working at the local riding school for a while and just booked it at a local exam centre and did it. On the day one of the horses threw someone - however the rider did something very odd to provoke it - she looked down behind her and kind of under the horse to check the leading leg in canter. I rode the same horse as my horse number two - having been kindly asked if I minded given as I just saw it chuck someone. I figured if I didn't do anything odd it would be fine and it was. 

My stage 2 and 3 I did at the exam centre where I trained - to be fair I would never have passed my 3 jumping without the advantage of knowing the horses. Also the centre's instructor allocated candidates to horses and allocated me horses he knew I was happy about jumping. (i have never been a brave jumper and whilst competent on a horse I know there were certainly horses I was less great on) I freely admit this was hugely unfair! I also knew the horses quirks - I probably would have passed the flat work section anyway but it can't have hurt to know that horse x cow kicked if you put your outside leg too far back into canter. And that horse y reared up if you were too heavy with the rein - as the first rider found to her cost. I used to assist with the stage 4 exams run there and to be fair at that level they did not really have suitable horses and those they used were - lets say quirky - the students used to enjoy watching the poor candidates who did not know go flying in all directions on our somewhat quirky horses. This too is pretty inappropriate.


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## Tnavas (18 September 2013)

TableDancer said:



			Huntley is the one that's closing down unfortunately.
		
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Oh No that's sad, that's where I took my Horsemasters in 1975. Nice place


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## charlie76 (19 September 2013)

Tnavas said:



			Oh No that's sad, that's where I took my Horsemasters in 1975. Nice place
		
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Are you sure it closing down and not just stopping doing exams ?


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## Kokopelli (19 September 2013)

Nope as the first of November its shutting down, all the horses are being rehomed. It is a real shame, I was meant to start as a working pupil there this year. Have watched loads of exams there and ridden in the teaching exams and can honestly say its the best place around here. Horses are happy and normal, not stale like the ones from a very well known local centre and needless to say instructors are amazing. It is a real shame for the horsing world imo.


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## Tnavas (19 September 2013)

It's they way of all the old big schools! We've lost Radnage House, Patchetts Green, Fulmer Equitation and now Huntley. Really sad.


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## Patterdale (19 September 2013)

siennamum said:



			When I (and 9 other candidates) failed our riding at stage 2 it was ludicrous. The big problem for me was the quality of horses and the discrepancy between the high riding standard of some of the candidates and the very low standard of horses provided.
		
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If the candidates really were of a high standard of riding, they'd be able to get any horse to perform, especially at stage 2 level! All you have to do is show a forward, balanced and rhythmical walk trot and canter, and jump a very small course. If you can't get your average riding school horse (or ANY horse I work that's been broken longer than 6 months) to do that, then you deserve to fail IMO. 
What a strange statement!


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## ReggieP (19 September 2013)

Hi all, it looks as if I triggered an interesting debate. Thanks for all your comments. To be clear my daughter did get to ride a 2nd horse on the flat.  The 2nd horse was clearly unsuitable for the types test required (see previous comments on what is expected from the horse). In normal circumstances this could have been rectified by looking at the performance over the 2 tests.  However the first was unsound (i.e lame). She told the assessor this, and her concern was ignored). We have an email back from BHS where the assessor has admitted that the horse was changed ( when the 2nd candiate complained ) "as a precaution", as it was deemed to be "unlevel" . I'm not sure of the semantic differences between "unlevel" ,  "unsound" or simply having 3 working legs, but we clearly feel that there is an issue of my daughter not having the same opportunity as the other candidates and hence we will be making a formal complaint. We are not seeking a "pass", but rather some form of offer in terms of a free or reduced fee re-examination. Afterall  to shell out more than £300 and miss a day of school just to be handed a dodgy horse is in my view, and quite mildly, taking the mick.


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## ester (19 September 2013)

I wonder who assesses centres for their suitability for exams, particularly the higher ones (ie stage 3) and how many candidates they can therefore accommodate. Perhaps there would be something to be said for fewer centres with a good stock of horses.


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## Honey08 (19 September 2013)

I wonder re the level of horses, that its because students at centres nowadays seem to be really pretty novice and go down the NVQ then degree route, so the horses are of a lower standard?  

When I did my AI, Brackenhurst was opening, and I wanted to take my 15.3 horse that had showjumped and hunted with me, they wouldn't take her as she had no official dressage experience.  Nowadays they would snap my hand off, in fact there are always adverts for horses needed for colleges.  I know a few people that have sent horses and they are not very high calibre horses.

OP did they say they would look into the matter if they have admitted that the horse was unlevel?  And had she already not passed on the first horse?


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## ReggieP (19 September 2013)

to be clear we have had  email from EQ ltd admitting the horse had a problem and that it was later withdrawn, but in the same mail refusing to acknowledge that anything was amiss in the examination procedure. This is their initial response. We now have to pay a whopping £75 to raise an "official complaint" , after which, if unsuccessful, we can raise the matter to OFQUAL.


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## AshTay (19 September 2013)

ReggieP said:



			She was only allowed this one on the flat and because she could not get it going, she was not allowed on the jumping and XC.
		
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ReggieP said:



			Hi all, it looks as if I triggered an interesting debate. Thanks for all your comments. To be clear my daughter did get to ride a 2nd horse on the flat.  The 2nd horse was clearly unsuitable for the types test required (see previous comments on what is expected from the horse). In normal circumstances this could have been rectified by looking at the performance over the 2 tests.  However the first was unsound (i.e lame).
		
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ReggieP said:



			to be clear we have had  email from EQ ltd admitting the horse had a problem and that it was later withdrawn, but in the same mail refusing to acknowledge that anything was amiss in the examination procedure. This is their initial response. We now have to pay a whopping £75 to raise an "official complaint" , after which, if unsuccessful, we can raise the matter to OFQUAL.
		
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Confused. So she did ride 2 horses - the first was "unsuitable" on the flat - how? Assuming that one was sound then there's no such thing as an unsuitable horse, just an unsuitable rider and a good rider will get a tune of some sort out of any horse they ride and good/bad riding can be judged from the moment a rider gets on board and asks for walk. 
Then the second wouldn't move and was ultimately found to be lame? If she fell well below expected standards on the first "unsuitable" horse then she would not have passed anyway so it's a pointless argument.


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## charlie76 (19 September 2013)

Kokopelli said:



			Nope as the first of November its shutting down, all the horses are being rehomed. It is a real shame, I was meant to start as a working pupil there this year. Have watched loads of exams there and ridden in the teaching exams and can honestly say its the best place around here. Horses are happy and normal, not stale like the ones from a very well known local centre and needless to say instructors are amazing. It is a real shame for the horsing world imo. 

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that is sad . I did my four there. horses were fab and carol is lovely


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## ReggieP (19 September 2013)

AshTay said:



			there's no such thing as an unsuitable horse
		
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 On this I am afraid I have to disagree. As previously noted by other posters there are a number of things expected on the flat that you would not be able to do unless the horse has some basic level of training.   E.g As  devils advocate should a stage 3 candidate be expected to ride a just-backed youngster ? At what point is the horse suitable or not suitable ? 

In any case this does not alter our argument, in that the candidate is supposed to be provided and assessed with 2 sound horses. This did not happen and so there was a clear unfair disadvantage vis a vis the other candidates.  This is not even a question on ability. It is a simple matter of following proper examination protocol to ensure equality amongst all candidates. 

BTW, EQ Ltd do not appear to have any process in place by which to assess the ability of the horses provided prior to examination, so it is simply the luck of the draw. Unfortunately I'm not prepared to play a £300 lottery for a qualification in which BHS have a monopoly ( we cant go elsewhere to get the qualification), and so they need to have system to ensure that the facilities and horses provided on the day are to a certain level of quality/ability thus providing the same conditions for all candidates.


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## Patterdale (19 September 2013)

ReggieP said:



			On this I am afraid I have to disagree. As previously noted by other posters there are a number of things expected on the flat that you would not be able to do unless the horse has some basic level of training.   E.g As  devils advocate should a stage 3 candidate be expected to ride a just-backed youngster ? At what point is the horse suitable or not suitable ? 

In any case this does not alter our argument, in that the candidate is supposed to be provided and assessed with 2 sound horses. This did not happen and so there was a clear unfair disadvantage vis a vis the other candidates.  In this is not even a question on ability. It is a simple issue of following proper examination protocol to ensure equality amongst all candidates. 

BTW, EQ Ltd do not appear to have any process in place by which to assess the ability of the horses provided prior to examination, so it is simply the luck of the draw. Unfortunately I'm not prepared to play a £300 lottery for a qualification in which BHS have a monopoly ( we cant go elsewhere to get the qualification), and so they need to have system to ensure that the facilities and horses provided on the day are to a certain level of quality/ability thus providing the same conditions for all candidates.
		
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Look, I realise that when your own child is concerned, you will obviously be biased. 
But (as I have already stated in this thread) ANY horse who has been broken longer than 6 months is suitable, and a decent rider should be able to get a tune out of it. 
In my 3 one of my flat horses was a huge stiff cob who gets used for RDA lessons (I did my PTT at the same centre and did a lead rein RDA lesson with it). The rider before me tried riving it's head in and basically couldn't get it to move. I got on, and although it wasn't ready to work on the bit I got it going forward, stretching into a long contact and doing flexions and the beginnings of leg yielding each rein. I passed. 

I'm a bit confused though about what's happened. 
So, your daughter rode one horse on the flat, then rode this other horse? Who was lame but they refused to swap it for her? 
Someone else then got on the horse, and they did swap it for them? HOW could someone else have got on it afterwards, as each person rides 2 horses only, and they would have all been on their second horses by then?

This just doesn't ring true to me at all I'm afraid. I think your daughter should just suck it up, be philosophical, ask for feedback, go away and work at it then put in for the exam again.
If you really think about it, can't you see that if she couldn't get the first horse going well, she just needs to improve? No one should ever be ashamed of not making the grade, but surely she needs to admit to herself that she just needs to improve? It happens to us all now and then!


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## AshTay (19 September 2013)

ReggieP said:



			On this I am afraid I have to disagree. As previously noted by other posters there are a number of things expected on the flat that you would not be able to do unless the horse has some basic level of training.   E.g As  devils advocate should a stage 3 candidate be expected to ride a just-backed youngster ? At what point is the horse suitable or not suitable ? 

In any case this does not alter our argument, in that the candidate is supposed to be provided and assessed with 2 sound horses. This did not happen and so there was a clear unfair disadvantage vis a vis the other candidates.  This is not even a question on ability. It is a simple matter of following proper examination protocol to ensure equality amongst all candidates. 

BTW, EQ Ltd do not appear to have any process in place by which to assess the ability of the horses provided prior to examination, so it is simply the luck of the draw. Unfortunately I'm not prepared to play a £300 lottery for a qualification in which BHS have a monopoly ( we cant go elsewhere to get the qualification), and so they need to have system to ensure that the facilities and horses provided on the day are to a certain level of quality/ability thus providing the same conditions for all candidates.
		
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I see your point and agree that it was unfair to be given a second horse that was lame but I was confused that initially you stated she was only allowed to ride one and then later on that she had already ridden one "unsuitable" horse. If EQ Ltd are looking into the issue of the second horse then that's a good outcome. 

Why should a stage 3 rider not be capable of riding a just-backed youngster??? I just looked at the Stage 3 syllabus and what they're looking for is an "effective" and "sympathetic" rider who can ride "independently" in a group and can demonstrates understanding and knowledge about how to train horses to novice dressage level - what sorts of horse should individuals of that level NOT be riding. Even if the horse was not fully proficient at, for example, leg yield, I would expect a stage 3 rider to know how to ask for it, how to correct it and exercises to help improve it (hell, I do and I have no stages and am pretty numpty but I have regular lessons with someone who knows so I've picked that up). My only exception would be a known nutcase who was a danger to himself and others and those horses shouldn't be ridden by anybody. How was the first horse unsuitable?


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## ReggieP (19 September 2013)

AshTay said:



			I see your point .... ?
		
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 Clearly I have not expressed myself very well. The issue for me is not how good or how bad the riding ability. It is about being provided with the same examination conditions. Moreover, and irrespective of what happened in this case, if BHS have no mechanism to assess the quality of the horses being used how can there be a level playing for all candidates. The result (as per comments of experiences from previous posters) is that you can have very good riders fail because they have "mad" or "bad" horses and you can have lesser able riders pass because they happen to be given a school master. I agree that this is not easy to solve, and it can probably never be perfect but my view is that considering the substantial cost of these exams EQ LTD need to do a lot more to remove some of the inconsistencies.


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## Patterdale (19 September 2013)

ReggieP said:



			you can have very good riders fail because they have "mad" or "bad" horses and you can have lesser able riders pass because they happen to be given a school master.
		
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Sorry but this just isn't true. Unless the horse goes nuts and bucks you off for no reason (which I've never heard of happening!) it's NOT a mad or bad horse. However I think we've established now that most broken in horses are in fact suitable. 

You also ride 2 horses for a reason. You will be given contrasting horses, ie if you have a slow, stiff horse first you'll be given a more forward one next. 

And you haven't addressed my point asking how the lame horse could possibly have been given to another candidate, who was allowed to swap it, if everyone was already on second horses?
As you're trying to publicly discredit the BHS I really think you should answer this.


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## galaxy (19 September 2013)

Op. Horse are living animals. It would be impossible for them to all be absolutely identical to provide a 'level playing field'. What you seem to be discounting are that the examiners are very experienced horse men/women and instructors. They will be able to see and assess what the horse is capable of and whether the rider is getting the most that the horse is able to give. There is no requirement that the candidate has to be able to perform a perfect x y or z out of the horse. 

In my stage 3 I had a very green cob that struggled to relax. I only cantered it once on each rein then spent the rest of the time in walk and trot getting it to stretch and relax. I explained what I was doing to the examiner. They saw that I had assessed it correctly and agreed with what I did. The second horse was a huge stiff board. Was very hard work to get to flex but eventually I got there. Again I discussed with the examiner what I felt and what I was doing. They could SEE what the horse was like and agreed with my analysis.

The fact that your daughter did ride 2 horses unlike what you says earlier, makes me conclude she was likely not up to standard. Have you considered going elsewhere for a second opinion. I failed my stage 3 jumping first time. I had taken it at the centre I had trained who were shocked and told me to appeal etc etc the examiners were wrong. I decided to get a 2nd opinion.... Had my position pulled apart and passed a few months later.


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## ReggieP (19 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			And you haven't addressed my point asking how the lame horse could possibly have been given to another candidate, who was allowed to swap it, if everyone was already on second horses?
As you're trying to publicly discredit the BHS I really think you should answer this.
		
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This is exactly what we are trying to understand also.  Candidate 1 complained the horse was unsound but was ignored. Candidate 2 took the same horse, complained it was unsound and it was changed for her. Clearly they were not all doing the flat tests at the same time!  

I'm absolutely in no way trying to discredit BHS.  I do not have an issue with BHS. This is an EQ Ltd examination procedural issue concerning equal treatment of candidates, as they are required to do under the OFQUAL regulatory framework in which they operate. If it is deemed that, whether in this particular case, or in future exams that there is a possibility of unequal treatment then EQ Ltd will need to address the issue and make improvements.  My understanding is that EQ Ltd are relatively new to the area of exam (any exam) regulation where there is now much more emphasis on ensuring that procedures are very clearly described and followed so that the exam result becomes much more objective and rigorous with less left to chance and subjective assessment. It is hence perhaps not so surprising that there will need to be some tweaking of their system.


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## Patterdale (19 September 2013)

ReggieP said:



			This is exactly what we are trying to understand also.  Candidate 1 complained the horse was unsound but was ignored. Candidate 2 took the same horse, complained it was unsound and it was changed for her.
		
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That makes no sense. 
They rode first horses. Someone else obviously ride the 'lame' one and your daughter rode a different (and you say 'unsuitable') one. I can safely assume this, as they don't suddenly bring different horses in halfway through. 
They swap. 
Your daughter can't make her horse move and it later turns out to be unlevel. Your daughter is not given another horse, presumably as she is not deemed fit to continue to the jumping. 

2 horses ridden by each candidate, flatwork section over. 
So HOW can you claim that the horse was then given straight to another rider who was allowed a swap?

Disappointment, fine. But bending the truth the meet your own ends gets my back up I'm afraid.


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## galaxy (19 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			That makes no sense. 
They rode first horses. Someone else obviously ride the 'lame' one and your daughter rode a different (and you say 'unsuitable') one. I can safely assume this, as they don't suddenly bring different horses in halfway through. 
They swap. 
Your daughter can't make her horse move and it later turns out to be unlevel. Your daughter is not given another horse, presumably as she is not deemed fit to continue to the jumping. 

2 horses ridden by each candidate, flatwork section over. 
So HOW can you claim that the horse was then given straight to another rider who was allowed a swap?

Disappointment, fine. But bending the truth the meet your own ends gets my back up I'm afraid.
		
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I THINK the ops daughter rode the 'lame' horse first. Didn't go well... Then was moved onto her 2nd horse and someone else got the 'lame' one which was then taken out the exam.

I would conclude that the ride on the 2nd horse was not up to standard. If the other horse had since been pronounced lame the examiners would have allowed for that.


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## ReggieP (19 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			That makes no sense. 
They rode first horses. Someone else obviously ride the 'lame' one and your daughter rode a different (and you say 'unsuitable') one. I can safely assume this, as they don't suddenly bring different horses in halfway through. 
They swap. 
Your daughter can't make her horse move and it later turns out to be unlevel. Your daughter is not given another horse, presumably as she is not deemed fit to continue to the jumping. 

2 horses ridden by each candidate, flatwork section over. 
So HOW can you claim that the horse was then given straight to another rider who was allowed a swap?

Disappointment, fine. But bending the truth the meet your own ends gets my back up I'm afraid.
		
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Firstly I am not bending any truth and secondly I'm finding it a bit difficult to understand where I am unclear.   My daughter rode 2 horses in the flatwork. One was lame. She raised her concerns to the examiner but was ignored and had to continue on it.  when she had finished the same horse was subsequently given to another candidate  (also for the flat work) who also complained but this the time horse was changed ; consequently the other candidate did her test on a different horse.


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## Kokopelli (19 September 2013)

ReggieP said:



			Firstly I am not bending any truth and secondly I'm finding it a bit difficult to understand where I am unclear.   My daughter rode 2 horses in the flatwork. One was lame. She raised her concerns to the examiner but was ignored and had to continue on it.  when she had finished the same horse was subsequently given to another candidate  (also for the flat work) who also complained but this the time horse was changed ; consequently the other candidate did her test on a different horse.
		
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But your daughter still rode another horse who wasn't lame and suitable for being assessed on before the lame one? If so then they would have assessed her riding on this horse which was from what you're saying not up to standard.


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## ReggieP (19 September 2013)

galaxy said:



			I would conclude that the ride on the 2nd horse was not up to standard. If the other horse had since been pronounced lame the examiners would have allowed for that.
		
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Yes correct, but the effect of having an unsound horse in the first test and the refusal of the examiners to listen to her concerns had quite a detrimental impact on the  2nd ride. She is a teenager, a little shy and not a hardened person of the world like me and many on this thread who would perhaps put the first ride behind them, take up the issue with the assessor and focus on the next part. It is precisely for these types of reason that OFQUAL requires that candidates must be given a level playing field and equal opportunity. In terms of her ability all I can say is that she has ridden every day since the age of 5, competes regularly in BE and BS and her trainers have included and do include a number of BHS Fellows, and riding "superstars" all of whom would attest to her ability. Clearly she was not able to demonstrate her ability on the day, but we believe that a great part of this was as a result of being given an unsound horse and treated unequally vis a vis other candidates.


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## siennamum (19 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			If the candidates really were of a high standard of riding, they'd be able to get any horse to perform, especially at stage 2 level! All you have to do is show a forward, balanced and rhythmical walk trot and canter, and jump a very small course. If you can't get your average riding school horse (or ANY horse I work that's been broken longer than 6 months) to do that, then you deserve to fail IMO. 
What a strange statement!
		
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I know I am just a compulsive liar, as presumably is the OP and anyone who doesn't adhere to your world view.


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## Patterdale (19 September 2013)

ReggieP said:



			Yes correct, but the effect of having an unsound horse in the first test and the refusal of the examiners to listen to her concerns had quite a detrimental impact on the  2nd ride. She is a teenager, a little shy and not a hardened person of the world like me and many on this thread who would perhaps put the first ride behind them, take up the issue with the assessor and focus on the next part.
		
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But if she couldn't do this on the day, then she clearly didnt have the skill or maturity to pass. 
I feel like we're going round in circles. I do not believe that this is the centres fault, but I think that you refuse to see this as you are very biased. 
If she were my child, I'd like to think I'd get her some feedback, talk about where she'd gone wrong and get her some lessons so that she can go for the exam again with more confidence and an increased skill set. Not just blame everyone and anyone but her. 
But hey ho.


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## Patterdale (19 September 2013)

siennamum said:



			I know I am just a compulsive liar, as presumably is the OP and anyone who doesn't adhere to your world view.
		
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Could you please quote where I've called you a 'compulsive liar'? Or indeed, accused you of lying at all?

Thought not - as I haven't. 

All I said is that at stage 2 you should be able to get a horse going forward in walk trot and canter, in balance, and that if you can't then you don't deserve to pass??? V confused. 
Did you quote the wrong person?


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## siennamum (19 September 2013)

I and others of the 8 other failed candidates were all able to get a horse going forward in walk trot and canter, in balance. We were all able to have the horses jump sweetly round the small course of jumps. If we couldn't do that we should definitely have failed but that wasn't the case on the day I took my exam.
I think you may have taken your exam a long time ago & lost track of what is expected now.....


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## Patterdale (19 September 2013)

siennamum said:



			I and others of the 8 other failed candidates were all able to get a horse going forward in walk trot and canter, in balance. We were all able to have the horses jump sweetly round the small course of jumps. If we couldn't do that we should definitely have failed but that wasn't the case on the day I took my exam.
I think you may have taken your exam a long time ago & lost track of what is expected now.....
		
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Your examiners must have all been drunk and/or blind then. If ever i fail something I can accept that I just wasnt up to scratch. Whatever. 

And FYI I took my exams 7 years ago, but to this day coach people (successfully) through stages 1,2,3 and PTT. So I don't think I'm tooooo out of touch


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## siennamum (19 September 2013)

No, as I explained earlier, the horses weren't up to scratch. Riding a horse assertively when it is stale, sore, poor and tired isn't my thing. I rode my horse a bit too sympathetically, allowed it to lob along rather than dumbing down my riding and chasing it along. I also had a light contact rather than a stranglehold. These things were mistakes. I was riding sympathetically, rather than riding it in the style expected by the examiners. At stage 3 I could have explained at stage 2, you really need to not over think stuff.


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## Patterdale (19 September 2013)

siennamum said:



			No, as I explained earlier, the horses weren't up to scratch. Riding a horse assertively when it is stale, sore, poor and tired isn't my thing. I rode my horse a bit too sympathetically, allowed it to lob along rather than dumbing down my riding and chasing it along. I also had a light contact rather than a stranglehold. These things were mistakes. I was riding sympathetically, rather than riding it in the style expected by the examiners. At stage 3 I could have explained at stage 2, you really need to not over think stuff.
		
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So the horses were welfare cases and the examiners wanted to see you riding the horses in a 'stranglehold' and not sympathetically?!
Whatever. 
Have it your way then - but if the horses were so poor you felt bad even riding them I hope you reported it to the authorities. 

None so blind as those that will not see.......


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## siennamum (19 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			None so blind as those that will not see.......
		
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quite


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## TableDancer (19 September 2013)

FWIW I don't think the extreme polarisation of this debate does either the protagonists or their points of view any favours - it is a shame, because there have been lots of more measured interventions on both sides. Surely the BHS and their exam system has some value, otherwise why would so many superb, world class trainers bother to go through it? Conversely, is it really realistic to believe that the implementation of this system is completely flawless on every occasion, and every exam date at every centre conforms to the standards hich the BHS would wish it to?

There are bound to be occasions where something goes wrong, it may be nobody's fault, it may be a combinaton of tiny factors causing a perfect storm. It seems to me from the OP's posts (and bear in mind that he/she wasn't there so I interpret some vagueness as haziness in trying to get the facts from an overwrought teenager, not deliberate obfuscation) that 1) The girl only had the opportunity to ride one suitable horse on the day - the other one (first, second, whatever) being subsequently deemed unsound and 2) She didn't demonstrate riding on the flat of a standard to pass on that horse, for whatever reason. So failing the exam is fine, BUT if she didn't get the chance to ride two horses she didn't get her money's worth and there should be some concession to that in terms of charging for her next attempt. My understanding is that this is all the OP is working for, at least now the dust has settled, and I support their efforts if the circumstances are as we are led to believe.

Charlie76 I did my four at Huntley too and trained for my ISM, it is indeed a great loss but I think at least it is going out on a high and it is their own decision, not running into the ground and petering out like, for instance, Porlock where I did most of my training...


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## Tnavas (19 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			That makes no sense. 
They rode first horses. Someone else obviously ride the 'lame' one and your daughter rode a different (and you say 'unsuitable') one. I can safely assume this, as they don't suddenly bring different horses in halfway through. 
They swap. 
Your daughter can't make her horse move and it later turns out to be unlevel. Your daughter is not given another horse, presumably as she is not deemed fit to continue to the jumping. 

2 horses ridden by each candidate, flatwork section over. 
So HOW can you claim that the horse was then given straight to another rider who was allowed a swap?

Disappointment, fine. But bending the truth the meet your own ends gets my back up I'm afraid.
		
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Wrong - let's re read the Op's post

Had a problem today with my daughter's stage 3 exam. The horse provided did not move one inch despite trying all manner of things. Consequently she didn't even get to the jumping or cross country and hence failed the riding section. They then gave the horse to another girl but when it did not move for her (seemed it was probably lame) they replaced the horse so the other girl was able to pass. This seems very unfair and we will be writing to BHS to complain. I just wanted to know if anybody else had come across this during their exams ? 

Her daughter was given a horse that would not move, she complained but with no positive result. Meanwhile the other candidates were riding their first horses. At the end of this session all riders swapped horses, usually done by taking the horse on your left or right. The rider who got the static horse also found that it would not move and complained and this time was listened to. Meanwhile the first rider has been evicted!

Years ago during an exam I got to jump a horse that was difficult, I couldn't get the stirrups long enough. Consequently the horse and I did not see eye to eye and I failed the jumping.

I put in a protest and was told that a rider of the calibre required would not have a problem with stirrups too short. I responded with a rider of the caliber required would not consider jumping a difficult horse with sub standard equipment.

When I went for the re sit we were all asked if our stirrups were a suitable length and did anyone require replacements, so the message did get across.

If the horse wouldn't move at Stage 3 level to me it would indicate that the horse had a problem. At Stage 1 I might consider that the rider was not yet at the level of the exam.

BHS let this girl down badly.


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## Zebedee (19 September 2013)

Tnavas said:



			Wrong - let's re read the Op's post

Had a problem today with my daughter's stage 3 exam. The horse provided did not move one inch despite trying all manner of things. Consequently she didn't even get to the jumping or cross country and hence failed the riding section. They then gave the horse to another girl but when it did not move for her (seemed it was probably lame) they replaced the horse so the other girl was able to pass. This seems very unfair and we will be writing to BHS to complain. I just wanted to know if anybody else had come across this during their exams ? 

Her daughter was given a horse that would not move, she complained but with no positive result. Meanwhile the other candidates were riding their first horses. At the end of this session all riders swapped horses, usually done by taking the horse on your left or right. The rider who got the static horse also found that it would not move and complained and this time was listened to. Meanwhile the first rider has been evicted!

Years ago during an exam I got to jump a horse that was difficult, I couldn't get the stirrups long enough. Consequently the horse and I did not see eye to eye and I failed the jumping.

I put in a protest and was told that a rider of the calibre required would not have a problem with stirrups too short. I responded with a rider of the caliber required would not consider jumping a difficult horse with sub standard equipment.

When I went for the re sit we were all asked if our stirrups were a suitable length and did anyone require replacements, so the message did get across.

If the horse wouldn't move at Stage 3 level to me it would indicate that the horse had a problem. At Stage 1 I might consider that the rider was not yet at the level of the exam.

BHS let this girl down badly.
		
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Thanks for that - saved me having to type something similar.

A young person who trains with a good friend of mine failed her stage three. She is also a vet student & she felt one of the horses she was given was bi- laterally lame. The examiners basically told her that she didn't know what she was talking about,failed on her flat riding & did not allow her to jump. When she retook the exam a couple of months later she sailed through, which according to an FBHS former chief examiner who is a visiting trainer at the yard she us based at is what should have happened first time. 

There seems to be an inherent problem with the BHS exams that at no time can they admit that a mistake may have been made (eg the previous poster who had her fail notice signed by people who hadn't examined her on the day) or that conditions / horses might have been unsuitable (eg the poster who took her exams at her training centre & knew the quirks / was allocated schoolmasters by the centre owner).

At the end of the day ignoring the OPs daughters concerns that the horse she had been allocated had a problem but then acting when the second candidate raised the same issues was unfair. The correct / fair thing to have done under the circumstances would have been to allow both candidates to ride a third horse, & cancelled the first horse from the process.


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## EventingMum (19 September 2013)

ReggieP said:



			This is exactly what we are trying to understand also.  Candidate 1 complained the horse was unsound but was ignored. Candidate 2 took the same horse, complained it was unsound and it was changed for her. Clearly they were not all doing the flat tests at the same time!  

I'm absolutely in no way trying to discredit BHS.  I do not have an issue with BHS. This is an EQ Ltd examination procedural issue concerning equal treatment of candidates, as they are required to do under the OFQUAL regulatory framework in which they operate. If it is deemed that, whether in this particular case, or in future exams that there is a possibility of unequal treatment then EQ Ltd will need to address the issue and make improvements.  My understanding is that EQ Ltd are relatively new to the area of exam (any exam) regulation where there is now much more emphasis on ensuring that procedures are very clearly described and followed so that the exam result becomes much more objective and rigorous with less left to chance and subjective assessment. It is hence perhaps not so surprising that there will need to be some tweaking of their system.
		
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My understanding is that EQL is a subsidiary company of BHS and as such the two are inextricably linked. Although under the EQL banner the exams are still in essence BHS exams, the setting up of EQL by the BHS was necessary to conform with OFQUAL regualtions which the BHS as a charity could not.

Unfortunately any assessment of performance will be subjective especially ridden performance (think of dressage marking discrepancies between judges). There are too many variable factors in a ridden exam to create an entirely level playing field and some candidates will be more at home on a particular type of horse than others so there will always be an element of luck in that respect, however the assessors are trained experienced people and really do the best they can to be as fair as humanly possible. 

A lame horse is not acceptable however we all know horses can suddenly go lame. Centres are inspected prior to becoming exam centres and the assessors make a report on the centre at the end of each exam so issues can be addressed however obviously the horses available on any given day cannot be guaranteed. 

As the exams are professional qualifications the candidate should be able to put one bad ride behind her and focus on riding the second horse well, I assume she has already sat stages 1 and 2 or her PC B test and as a competitor should be able to deal with some stress -few exams are stress free - that's life!


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## ruth83 (19 September 2013)

Thank you OP for coming back and updating us on the situation. I'm pleased it has been clarified that the usual procedure of riding 2 horses was followed. 

OP, obviously I do not know your daughter and as such cannot comment on her riding ability but, if I may say so, I would perhaps encourage her to take a little more time to develop her all round skills for the exam, as well as riding, before a retake. The Stage 3 exam results in both the Grooms Certificate and a vital component of the BHSAI qualification - where teaching becomes a part of someones job. As such, there is a big step in not just the riding skills but the confidence, stress management and maturity desired in a succesful candidate. I have made similar mistakes. I entered for my Intermediate Teaching Test very shortly after attaining my AI. I was nowhere near 'worldly wise' enough to cope with the demands of the day and the varying challenges. I'm not saying stop, I'm suggesting time and experience to allow her to go with the capacity to deal with anything the day may throw at her - after all, that is what the horse world is like!! Only last weekend I was presented with a horse who point blank would not canter for me, my job now is to deal with that. 

On a more general note, exam centres are regularly monitored by the assessors as they go in for exams. Most are run by assessors who know the standard of horses required for the exams. The horses must earn a living from day to day and cannot be kept purely for exams. Equally, candidates may and do turn up for exams below the required standard and unintentionally overhorsing them on the day could be dangerous. In my work as a freelance coach/rider/groom I rarely know what I am going to be asked to ride. Some are a joy to sit on, others are a nightmare. Some can be a joy one day and a nightmare the next!! I have to adapt, and it has stood me in good stead. As is the unpredicatbility of horses, a 100% standardised exam situation for all is never going to be possible, but hard work is done to ensure it is as close as possible. 

As I have already said, almost no system is perfect and of course people make mistakes. This is why the OP was encouraged to contact The BHS and ensure the standard exam procedure had been followed. 


Huntley is going to be an enormous loss to the horse world.


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## ReggieP (26 September 2013)

I am very happy to report that this matter has been resolved with EQ Ltd. My daughter will be getting a chance to redo the riding module without charge. Once it got to the appropriate level in the origanisation EQ Ltd were excellent in dealing with the issue. Moreover they appear to be working on improving and documenting their procedures such that there is more clarity as to how these things should be dealt with , including better recording of the events when there are problems. 

Thanks for all the interesting comments ;-)


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## Tnavas (26 September 2013)

ReggieP said:



			I am very happy to report that this matter has been resolved with EQ Ltd. My daughter will be getting a chance to redo the riding module without charge. Once it got to the appropriate level in the origanisation EQ Ltd were excellent in dealing with the issue. Moreover they appear to be working on improving and documenting their procedures such that there is more clarity as to how these things should be dealt with , including better recording of the events when there are problems. 

Thanks for all the interesting comments ;-)
		
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Great news - best of luck for your daughter when she resits


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## Honey08 (26 September 2013)

Very good.  Fingers crossed for her.  Let us know how she goes on.


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## Happy H (27 September 2013)

I think the best way to resolve your problem is to report to the examiners.  You can't really hold the centre overly responsible - have you never got to a competition, started warming up and realised your horse is lame or not quite right and had to go home?

It is the examiners who need to request a new horse if they feel it is unsuitable / lame.

In my stage 3 exam, the person riding the horse before I rode it on the flat complained that the horse was unlevel as they couldn't get it to canter on the right lead and it wouldn't work properly from behind.  I rode it fine and passed - it was not an easy horse by any means and was naturally on the forehand, but that's the whole point - anyone can get on a push button schoolmaster and do it - the examiners what to test you can properly ride any horse, not just a perfectly schooled one.

Also, a formal written complaint was put in about a jumping horse that had a run out and a stop.  They said the horse was nowhere near the standard required and that was why it had a run out and a stop.  Said horse had completed a 3* event two years prior (double clear) and was happily competing Pre-Novice eventing with it's owner that season.  It was just a typical mare and if you rode it badly, it wouldn't jump.


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