# Should I sell?



## Little Ted (13 February 2013)

I'm the proud owner of an 18yr dressage school master.  He's my first ever horse (I'm 50) and I've had him for 3yrs.  I'd only taken up riding a couple of years before buying him from a reliable source. My problem is that I can't keep him in canter. To be honest I didn't do well with canter before him due to poor quality school horse, but thought he'd teach me.  All my instructor says is I need to push him on more because he's learned he can stop.  I have three lessons a week and ride at least once on my own.  My boy can be very strong once he gets going which can be scary and in his previous life competed/went better in a double bridle.  I started out with him in a French link but have progressed to a double and bigger spurs.  But this isn't what I wanted when I set out.  To say I'm frustrated is an understatement. To my way of thinking if I can't canter him around the whole arena after 3 years but I can on a different horse, then I ought to sell him to save my sanity. All the evidence seems to be pointing that way or am I missing something fundamental?  My instructor can ride him well but he's been riding since he started to walk.  What should I do?


----------



## ForeverBroke_ (13 February 2013)

Sorry, does your instructor have the same issues with cantering on him?

Just purely because of his age (not that its exactly old), and if he's the right horse for you in every other sense I'd perservere. Could you try a different instructor?

Can you get him cantering out hacking?


----------



## Little Ted (13 February 2013)

My instructor uses more leg before he drops out of canter. He tells me to do the same as I ride but I've either not got enough to give or I'm tense (paralysed) because I'm actually in canter.

As I'm cautious I've only hacked him out a handful of times.  He spooked once and I got a good canter but not something I'd choose to repeat in a hurry.  

Unfortunately there isn't a good choice of instructors where I am and he is broadly the best of the bunch.

I agree with your sentiment, he's a super horse in every other way and if I could crack the canter he could teach me a lot, but at the moment it's like having a Ferrari and never getting out of 2nd gear!


----------



## Little Ted (13 February 2013)

My instructor uses more leg before he drops out of canter. He tells me to do the same as I ride but I've either not got enough to give or I'm tense (paralysed) because I'm actually in canter.

As I'm cautious I've only hacked him out a handful of times.  He spooked once and I got a good canter but not something I'd choose to repeat in a hurry.  

Unfortunately there isn't a good choice of instructors where I am and he is broadly the best of the bunch.

I agree with your sentiment, he's a super horse in every other way and if I could crack the canter he could teach me a lot, but at the moment it's like having a Ferrari and never getting out of 2nd gear!


----------



## WelshD (13 February 2013)

he doesnt really sound like a schoolmaster

If he genuinely was then I would imagine this would have been your best shot at getting it right and changing the horse probably wont actually help

Id press on or change your instructor and press on - the best of the bunch isnt necessarily the best for you


----------



## Tiffany (13 February 2013)

Sounds like you tense up when in canter so you could be blocking him through his back. What about a lunge lesson then you can concentrate on  using your seat and legs and your instructor can send him on if he breaks back into trot.

If your instructor can canter him but you can't then is it worth trying a different instructor. A good rider isn't always a good instructor or, he may not be explaining in a way that makes sense to you?

Can you keep him in canter when hacking out? (Just noticed Fleabite asked the same question)

Be a shame to sell him if he's everything you want in every other way.


----------



## Vodkagirly (13 February 2013)

Maybe have some lessons at a riding school on a different horse. May help you learn the technique and relax more on someone else. Sometimes its just a mental block so getting on a horse that you have no history of failing on helps.


----------



## Little Ted (13 February 2013)

All good advice.  I have done some work on the lunge but not on him for a long time so it's definitely worth another try as I know my frustration causes me to be tense.  Ive just started working on my own more doing lots of transitions and trying to stay more relaxed. It is making me feel better. 

I'm not in the UK so believe me, English speaking instructors are rare but I take your point.  Had I been in the UK I'd have changed by now.


----------



## nikicb (13 February 2013)

Just wondering whether a few lessons on a mechanical horse would help if you have one near you.  I'm approaching your age and have recently got a new youngish horse and I feel I have a few niggles I would like to put right so this is something I'm considering.  Just to be able to concentrate on what I am doing rather than the horse.  Equally lunge lessons may do the trick as well.


----------



## Little Ted (13 February 2013)

I did have a week of lessons on one of my instructors horses.  It took me a little time to adjust but I was cantering around the arena without being tense.  I suspect I need more of this...


----------



## Little Ted (13 February 2013)

Unfortunately there aren't any mechanical horses here.  About four years ago I had a few lessons in the UK which included the first one on a mechanical horse for insurance purposes.  It was quite fun and I found all the right buttons then.  I think the lunge will be a useful step unless I head back to the UK sometime soon.  Cheers


----------



## Tammytoo (14 February 2013)

Being a schoolmaster isn't the same as being an easy horse to ride.  He has been trained to respond to the correct signals and when he gets these he works well.  The idea is that he teaches you to ride correctly by responding to the correct aids.

When you get tense you stiffen and effectively say slow down! 

I know it sounds silly, but have you tried singing whilst riding and schooling?  It is almost impossible to be tense whilst singing and if you can find a turne that matches his canter rythym all the better.  Try the theme tune to the Horse of the Year Show at the top of your voice!

This was a tip given to us at PC many, many moons ago and it still works for me.


----------



## Little Ted (14 February 2013)

Thanks, I'll definitely try singing.  I'd never made the connection before but when I ride on my own I play music and sing along.....and I'm usually more relaxed.  

Without doubt one of my main problems is I think too much.


----------



## Kaylum (14 February 2013)

yep get on the lunge without stirrups. We used to do over half our lesson without them but nobody does these day.  It will make your position better and make you stronger.


----------



## Norfolk Pie (14 February 2013)

I'm wondering if your instructor has established good enough basics, or if little faults from your position are having a bigger impact in canter? It's easy to keep pushing people in to more "challenging paces/ movements" because as instructors we feel they won't be getting value for money if we don't step them up to canter. I'd suggest looking into coaches specilising in rider biomechanics.
To be truthful, no well schooled horse should be kept in canter by using more leg. They should go in to canter from a signal, and maintain it until given a signal to stop. I would wonder if your horse is finding maintaining canter difficult, either through his current physique / level of schooling, or through the influence of the rider. I find some of Joni Bentleys articles really interesting, and a lot my clients find they suddenly make a breakthrough.

Might be worth a google. I get tired of instructors just saying more leg, sit up, push him forward- the riders can't do that, because of fundamental faults - riding becomes pressure and force, instead of signals 

Good luck


----------



## showpony (14 February 2013)

Has this problem being going on for 3 yrs? 
Suggest if youve been using the same instructor CHANGE asap.

You say you are riding in a double bridle as he is strong BUT obviously not that strong if you cant maintain a canter! 

Also why are you riding in " Big Spurs" ? Have you tried backing up your leg with a schooling whip? 

Sorry I seem a bit sceptical but I can't understand why someone would let this problem continue for a few weeks let alone 3 yrs.

Have you had his back checked lately?



Little Ted said:



			I'm the proud owner of an 18yr dressage school master.  He's my first ever horse (I'm 50) and I've had him for 3yrs.  I'd only taken up riding a couple of years before buying him from a reliable source. My problem is that I can't keep him in canter. To be honest I didn't do well with canter before him due to poor quality school horse, but thought he'd teach me.  All my instructor says is I need to push him on more because he's learned he can stop.  I have three lessons a week and ride at least once on my own.  My boy can be very strong once he gets going which can be scary and in his previous life competed/went better in a double bridle.  I started out with him in a French link but have progressed to a double and bigger spurs.  But this isn't what I wanted when I set out.  To say I'm frustrated is an understatement. To my way of thinking if I can't canter him around the whole arena after 3 years but I can on a different horse, then I ought to sell him to save my sanity. All the evidence seems to be pointing that way or am I missing something fundamental?  My instructor can ride him well but he's been riding since he started to walk.  What should I do?
		
Click to expand...


----------



## ossy (14 February 2013)

^^^^^I too was wondering about the double bridle and big spurs?  Maybe a change in instructor or you say you have about three lessons a week could you alternate instructors and find a balance.


----------



## Little Ted (14 February 2013)

Like what you say Norfolk Pie, and the last two posts echo my own thoughts exactly which is why I'm questioning everything.  It was never my intention to ride in big spurs or a double; I feel its just masking the problems rather than fixing my issues.  I do carry a schooling whip as backup to my legs, but I know I'm tentative in using it.  When I ride on my own I use a snaffle and tiny spurs or none at all.  He listens to me but I struggle maintaining good outline.

I mentioned getting his back checked to my instructor but he said he didn't think it was a problem with the horse (meaning me).  I will probably do it anyhow and tell him I've done it.  The problem there is the vet is local so he'll have a chat with my instructor....and bingo, I look like a paranoid newby again. 

Without doubt part of my issue is I never learnt to ride as a child or properly as an adult so assumptions are made that I know more than I do even if I take time to explain.  Believe me I would change instructors if I were in the UK, but I'm not so I've got to try and influence the direction which is more difficult from a novice position. 

I'm really pleased I posted the question as I've had some great feedback, and am satified I'm not going mad and am right to question things.  It has occurred to me that my beautiful boy would have possibly been a better 2nd horse but isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.


----------



## noodle_ (14 February 2013)

i would suggest a different horse/week of lessons with someone else?

if you can afford it - mabey "swap" for a week - instructor rides your horse and you ride something else?


----------



## Little Ted (14 February 2013)

Spookily my husband just suggested I go back to the UK for a week to ride.  I just need to find someone....


----------



## Roody2 (14 February 2013)

It sounds a bit like you may be riding with the handbrake on, you say he gets strong so are you inadvertently holding him back because you're worried? Also, after 3 years he will likely have become accustomed to this way of going so you need to break the cycle not only in yourself but in him. 
Stop worrying and go with the flow a bit more. If you can get someone to ride him in for you, they warm him up, work him and get him cantering nicely and then you sit on him for 10 mins at the end - that should help you feel what it should feel like and get used to a proper canter.


----------



## Little Ted (14 February 2013)

You're probably spot on with your analysis and your analogy


----------



## soulfull (16 February 2013)

I really feel for you. Must be so hard to be in your position. I totally agree with roody!
You are somehow holding him back. I think maybe deep down your are afraid he will run away with you if you REALLY let him 'canter on'.   If this isn't the case get him into canter. Forget about outline. Get up out of your seat and use what leg you can manage and use your voice to get him to go forward. You have to make sure your not holding his head!  Put a strap between the d rings on your saddle for you to hold on (this strap will give u so much confidence!!) 
If you would like the number of somewhere you can come to in the UK for a week of lessons pm me
The lady I will tell you about has made SO much difference to my riding I can't even begin to explain


----------



## Little Ted (16 February 2013)

Spot on Soulfull and Roody.  I got my better half to video my lesson last Saturday and showed it to an experienced rider today.  He said I definitely put the breaks on almost as soon as I go into canter and my face changes - I look scared!  

This week I'm going to work on my own, singing, relaxed and try to chill.  I'll then review what I want to do.  I'd be grateful for the UK recommendation in any case.

Thanks to all for the feedback and support.  I shall persevere.


----------



## Natch (16 February 2013)

Can you have a lesson where you work without reins for part of the time? And stirrups, as time progresses 

I would also do some visualisation. Get some nice mood music, and play it while at home relaxing. close your eyes and imagine asking for and getting, the perfect canter. He maintains it easily and you are so relaxed and riding with purpose and focus. What does it look like? What does it feel like? what smells can you smell? Listen to his hoofbeats and your rhythmic breathing. Amplify and intensify all of those things. Pop the music on when you get on your horse, and recreate it, and try to _just know_ that it's all goign to go really well.


----------



## Jazzy B (17 February 2013)

OP I feel really sorry for you!  It really doesn't sound like you are having much fun at all and like others have said you are a little worried about this horse and "riding with the hand break on".  

I'm not sure if I'm particularly impressed with your instructor, bigger spurs and a double bridle??  I would probably be looking for a new instructor.    

I would try and come to the UK if you can, perhaps book yourself into a week's tuition somewhere, get yourself out hacking and then go back and reassess.  If you still feel the same way about your horse I would say his probably not the right one for you!.


----------



## Cluny (17 February 2013)

Just a thought, from what I understand from your post, you usually ride in the school and don't hack out.  It could be that he has become very stale as some horses can and really needs a complete break from schooling and get out hacking to reinvigorate him.  If this is a bit scary for you, can you pay your instructor to take him out.


----------



## wench (18 February 2013)

Where abouts are you currently living?


----------



## Pigeon (19 February 2013)

I wouldn't sell over something like that. I was always taught, if your horse has a problem, you fix it. And that has served me well. Think how rewarding it will be when you get over this issue!

It sounds as if you're literally not using enough leg, and horse is not respecting the aids you are giving. This is a communication problem and I don't think a bigger bit/spurs is the answer. What's he like when you canter him out on hacks? Do you have trouble maintaining it then? Try lots of transitions, literally every few strides, to get him more off the leg. Also try trot to canter, canter three strides, then ask back to trot. Then gradually build up, so that you decide when the canter finishes, not him.


----------



## Pigeon (19 February 2013)

And Cluny's right. My horse is a horror if I school him more than twice a week. He's very talented at his dressage, he just finds constant schooling tedious! Maybe yours is the same.


----------



## Scaty_Bird (21 February 2013)

Keep the horse but say bye bye to the instructor.  Sounds like you just need a bit of advice on how and when you should use your leg and be sitting. 

If you do come back to the UK to have a week somewhere The Yorkshire Riding Centre is great - you can do a package where you have your accommodation, meals and tuition included.  The instructors that we had were great and it improved my confidence hugely - I am petrified of jumping and by the end of the week I WANTED to jump a 3 foot course. 

Agree with what a lot of people are saying about the spurs and bridle - they are meant to fine tune what your asking and if your not asking in the first place won't make a difference.  It would be a good idea to try riding with a schooling whip but to also make sure your asking first before you use it. 

What's your horse like it you 'let him go' a bit more in the canter?  Maybe he just needs his head a bit more?


----------



## TangoCurly (21 February 2013)

Do you actually need to canter at all?

I wonder if you are putting so much pressure on yourself that you have no option but to get nervous about it, the horse reads this and therefore is looking after you by not cantering.

I'd give up on cantering completely (or pretend you have anyway).  Just work on walk and trot, do some lateral work, work on altering stride lengths, etc, etc then one of these days you will just suddenly find that you want to canter and will just do it.  That might be in a week's time, it might be in a year or two's time.  It doesn't matter.

If you don't want to canter at all after a few years, well sod it, don't canter!


----------



## Little Ted (21 February 2013)

Lots of great advice again, thanks all.  
This week I'm doing my own thing with my snaffle, schooling whip and no spurs.  He's listening to me, so I'm taking it slow and easy trying to stay relaxed.  I also have a strap on my saddle D-rings to give me a psychological boost. 

In answer to how does my horse go in canter if he's 'let go', he has a lovely extended canter when someone else rides him   So I really need to be less tense, take off the hand brake and go with the flow.  Wish me luck.

As I said before I'd change instructor if I could but there is seriously no choice.  I'll continue to look but a trained English speaker is a rarity here.


----------



## Goldenstar (21 February 2013)

Will he let you canter with your wieght off his back ?
By that I mean in a sort of long jumping postion you might have to shorten your stirrups a couple of holes also I would use a neck strap if you don't already.
If he will let you do off the back canter I would practise this on a circle until you get the feel of him moving forward under you .
Think of your wieght going down the stirrups into your feet and heels . I suggest this  as its a way for your to canter without blocking him which I think he's reading as a stop aid.
Please check he is safe to ride like this before you try.
The cure for canter problems is cantering you just need to canter as much as possible try to ride other horses if you can .


----------



## Little Ted (21 February 2013)

Hacking - I've been out on the only bridle way we have half a dozen times with my instructor.  The last time I was with him a dog popped out of a bush and my boy bolted though I did manage to stop him about 100yards away from my instructor without having a coronary. 
This week I've taken my boy out myself (which is a little scary) and pushed on when he tried to turn us around!  I haven't ventured far but every little counts...


----------



## Little Ted (21 February 2013)

Thanks Goldenstar, will look into it.
I take your point though, just need to canter.... and perhaps be a little braver.


----------



## Goldenstar (21 February 2013)

Don't think my typing is good enough to take through exactly how I think I would approach this if I was teaching you but in the off the back postion you need to learn how to balance using your lower legs with the wieght in the feet ( on the stirrup) and down the heel ,you learn that you need to be in control Of your upper body and you don't have your bum in the saddle to help you so it helps develop balance and poise in the muscles .
When you where confidently cantering like this I would get you to sit hopefully by then you find it easier to stay with the motion .
Most uk trained horses are used to ' off the back work' but I am assuming your horse is Spanish trained and that why I saying be cautious and check this won't freak him out.


----------



## Cluny (21 February 2013)

OP thats great news about the hacking.  I know how you feel, I used to have a horse who I completely lost my nerve on out hacking as he would bronc with me until he got me off.  I literally had to force myself to get on board and my legs felt like jelly when out hacking, but I was determined not to be beaten and forced myself to go further and further, until in the end I actually started to enjoy myself and so did my horse.

A good tip I found was to sing nursery rhymes went out riding, it means you have to breath (when we are nervous we hold our breath) and this in turn stops your body being rigid which in turn helps relax your horse.


----------



## Little Ted (21 February 2013)

A few people have mentioned singing which I've recently tried particularly if I play music, and agree it works.  Interestingly I have been more relaxed and ridden better on the odd occasion I'm recovering from a night out - clearly my brain is fogged.  That said, I have no plans to drink more!


----------



## Cluny (23 February 2013)

Lol, no I don't recommend alcohol as a cure!


----------



## sally259 (23 February 2013)

Whereabouts in Spain are you?  I haven't got a horse but I have weekly lessons with a wonderful instructor in the Malaga area.


----------



## HappyHooves (23 February 2013)

Have you tried an ad here -   http://spain.angloinfo.com/


----------



## Little Ted (23 February 2013)

Thanks Sally259 and Happy Hooves - appreciate your input.
I'm about an hour and a half away from Malaga


----------



## sally259 (23 February 2013)

I have PM'd you the link to where I go riding.


----------



## Aarrghimpossiblepony (3 March 2013)

I'd ask myself two questions if I were you.

Why did I start to ride?
Why did I buy a horse?

If the answer to those questions isn't "because I wanted to canter right the way around the arena", stop beating yourself up about not being able to do that.

Concentrate on what you can do and relax doing what you can do and ask yourself if you are enjoying that with your own horse, (that's pretty much the dream for all of us isn't it, owning your own horse you can have a relationship with)

And if the answer is "yes" carry on.

And he sounds a very nice horse if on a hack something spooked him and he stopped after a hundred yards with, by your own admission, a quite nervous rider.


----------



## Fahrenheit (3 March 2013)

There is schoolmasters and there is schoolmasters.

To me a true dressage schoolmaster is not for a novice rider... no offence intended, a dressage schoolmaster knows their job but still requires the rider to be able to push all the right buttons, to me you need a more allround schoolmaster you can establish yourself on first. I'd say the same about show jumping schoolmasters, I had a Grade A schoolmaster but that doesn't mean anyone can ride them, the rider still needs to have the balls to jump the fences and to be able to push the right buttons


----------



## Booboos (3 March 2013)

I don't know you or your horse, but my feeling is that you have overhorsed yourself.

A schoolmaster can only be described as such in reference to the type of rider he is suited to. For example, a 'first competition horse schoolmaster' should be able to take a competition novice rider to Prelim/Novice/Elem with a bit of support from a good trainer. If the rider is already at Medium, then they need a PSG schoolmaster. If the rider is doing well at PSG then they need a GP schoolmaster. None of this means that the GP schoolmaster would be a schoolmaster for the original, competition novice, rider.

As horses progress in their training they develop more sensitivities to more complex aids and the rider has to have some approximate ability of delivering these aids. Allowing the horse to go forward with the hand when applying the forward leg/seat aids is crucial otherwise the horse will become seriously confused and no amount of increasing the aids (longer spurs plus stronger bit) is going to solve the situation.

In addition, some (although I appreciate not all) Spanish trained horses are pushed a bit too quickly to advanced movements without establishing the basics so they require an even more experienced rider to set them up correctly - therefore they are even more difficult for a less experienced rider, e.g. just because the horse can piaffe it does not mean that he can trot a 20m circle without falling out of the shoulder.

If you can find another instructor it would be worth getting a second opinion on whether the partnership between you and your horse can be developed, but if you cannot, continuing to spend the money on three lessons a week and not being able to canter your horse after 3 years does point to a fundamental problem. Sadly I think you should consider selling your horse for one that is more suitable.


----------



## paddy (7 March 2013)

First of all try working with what you've got.  You know your horse can canter, although it seems he needs reminding.  You think you're tense and blocking (been there got the t'shirt).  

One thing that really worked for me was taking the pressure right off.  Work on a 20m circle, and do lots of transitions between walk, trot and halt, and on and back in each pace.  Don't ask for canter yet.  When your horse is off the leg and pinging, start talking to someone - doesn't matter who - about something unrelated to horses.    Continue your transitions.  Whilst maintaining the conversation, ask for the canter for a 1/4 circle, then back to trot 1/4 circle, canter 1/4 circle etc.  Do that for, say week one until you're comfortable with that.  Then do half a circle canter half trot, all the while keeping the conversation.  When you get up to a full circle, stick to canter circles - cantering in a straight line and keeping the horse's weight back on his hocks is difficult.  When that's going well, do a canter circle, go straigt a few paces up the long side, put in another circle, go straight a few paces, etc.  Slowly build the amount of time you're able to canter on the circle and straight, and if you feel the weight moving onto the forehand whilst going large, do another circle.  AND KEEP THE CONVERSATION GOING.  

Why?  It may be that your instructor is able to better balance the horse, or it may be that you're blocking.  Taking your focus elsewhere will stop you tensing so much.  Working on circles will help keep the weight back (oh, and make sure you're not tipping forwards too).

Good luck!  Bear in mind schoolmasters generally know all the tricks going.


----------



## dangermouse64 (9 March 2013)

Hi Little Ted,

I personally wouldn't sell him, from what you've said he's lovely other than not keeping the canter going.

I rode a riding school pony last year who was very forward and honestly (even though I wouldn't admit it) he scared me.  Everytime I had to canter I felt a knot in my stomach, I'd ask for the canter, he'd rush and go flat, I'd tense up and then he'd stop, all in the space of about 30 seconds.  Riding instructor rode him infront of me and he went like a dream.

She recommended singing and just walk and trot work, lots of transitions and she just left me to find my balance with him while she taught the rest of the lesson (she kept an eye on us obviously)

By around the 4th lesson I felt so much more relaxed and knew a few more nursery rhymes lol so I just sat and asked for the canter, I wasn't bothered if he did it or not so I wasn't as tense, I got around six strides of canter and then asked him to trot again.  That was my light bulb moment and I used that to build from, a few lessons later and I had my confidence back, joined in with the rest of the lesson and had him jumping small cross poles.

If you relax and focus on what goes well then your confidence in him will grow and before you realise you'll be cantering and doing whatever else you want with him.  Patience pays, don't rush yourself.

Good luck

Dani.x


----------

