# BD Legal Calmer?



## dressage_diva (22 October 2015)

I have a very hot, sensitive warmblood who is a bit of a worrier about life generally. Whenever he arrives at a venue he is incredibly nervous until I get on him when he chills out. 

In fact pretty much as soon as he's plaited up he gets anxious about going competing. As soon as we arrive at a venue he is very unsettled and I had hoped that the more he went out the more relaxed he would be, but that hasn't happened so far. We've tried going to both quiet and busier venues, and he's been back to venues multiple times but he's no more chilled even if he knows the venue! We've tried giving him plenty of time to relax before I get on and the opposite too - getting to venue very late and getting straight on but it makes no difference to him. He's anxious whether I tack him up on the lorry, or tied up by the lorry (I don't do this any more as he panicked and broke loose once). As soon as I get on he is super chilled - he is not nervous at all (you can almost see him breathe a sigh a relief once I'm on!) and he's super brave and chilled in warm up arena and the test arena. After the test he's pretty relaxed and is no longer stressed. I've tried taking him out in the lorry to lessons too but he's still anxious as soon as he arrives. I don't think he's picking up nerves from me (but I am considering getting someone else to take him out instead of me to confirm this).

I'm wondering whether there might be a BD legal calmer which might help him be less anxious when he arrives somewhere (without taking the edge of him when I ride)? He's an absolute sweetheart and I have high hopes for him in Dressage but he's a bit of a worrier about life and I'm sure that given a few years he will start to relax but I'm wondering what I can do in the meantime as I don't like to see him so anxious! I also think the worry is tiring him out as he always seems to tire much quicker when riding him at a venue away from home (he doesn't seem to find the actual travelling stressful - he doesn't sweat up and he stands quietly eating until we arrive somewhere and the lorry stops!).

Any ideas?


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## mrsh2010 (22 October 2015)

NAF Magic.

With my lad, I actually put the long plaits into his mane the night before, and then I roll them up when I get to the venue. I also use the Mojo wraps on my lad's headcollar.


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## dressage_diva (22 October 2015)

Thanks I've heard of NAF Magic but wasn't sure how effective it really was. We've tried plaiting my boy the night before but as soon as he sees me in he morning walking over with his travel boots he becomes anxious!


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## dressage_diva (22 October 2015)

Out of interest do you recommend the NAF Magic everyday calmer or just using the syringes on competition days?


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## Ditchjumper2 (22 October 2015)

I use it on a hunter who stresses and it def makes a difference! He has 2 scoops in his feed the night before hunting and two in the morning. It does not stop it but it certainly helps.


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## mrsh2010 (22 October 2015)

I used the liquid daily to take the edge of my lad when I was getting going again after knee surgery - definitely works


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## mirabela123 (22 October 2015)

dressage_diva said:



			Out of interest do you recommend the NAF Magic everyday calmer or just using the syringes on competition days? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




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 How much NAF Magic ?


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## milliepops (22 October 2015)

dressage_diva said:



			Out of interest do you recommend the NAF Magic everyday calmer or just using the syringes on competition days?
		
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I've had good results with the syringe where a daily dose of mag had no effect.  Worth a go, I'd say, but give it to the horse in a quiet environment so it has time to take effect.


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## kzb (22 October 2015)

The daily naf calmer had no effect on my horse but the syringe worked very well. I would almost say too well. I can't give her a full syringe, only half, although she has settled now and I don't need to use it any more


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## unicornystar (23 October 2015)

only one I ever use which has worked on three different horses is the syringe Equine America SO KALM + paste, I use an hour before the effect is needed, took the edge hugely off an insane TB, worked on a tricky mare and amazing on a worrying gelding that I have.


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## applecart14 (23 October 2015)

dressage_diva said:



			Thanks I've heard of NAF Magic but wasn't sure how effective it really was. We've tried plaiting my boy the night before but as soon as he sees me in he morning walking over with his travel boots he becomes anxious!
		
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Please do try it!! You won't be dissapointed, but you do need to give it at least one containers worth of time first, and you need to give a higher dose to start with and then go down after ten days to a maintenance dose - don't be tempted to not do this to save money as it may not work.  I have had my horse on it for 16 months now on maintenance dose and have taken him off it twice as a test. Within a few days of him being off it on both occassions he has gone back, spooky, spinning on the road, getting tense and anxious.  When I have put him back on it within a few days again he has been back to sensible, safe, and when he does spook it de-escalates so quickly.

I can't rate it enough. I tried normal magnesium powder but it didn't do anything at all for my horse.  Yes you could argue that it has some kind of placebo effect on the rider which then goes down the reins to the horse but after all this time I doubt very much, given that I barely ever even think about him being on it now. 

to help convince you further - at the moment at Countrywide Farmers they have a three for two on all NAF supplements.


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## popsdosh (23 October 2015)

There is no BD ( or any other FEI regulated discipline) legal calmer! They are expressly forbidden in competition. Read the rule book properly.
People may use them but people speed in cars as well. All NAF will say is it does not contain prohibited substances, but it is still illegal to administer any supplement that may have a calming effect. The offence is in the intent as quoted below from FEI

Moreover, the persons administering a herbal or so-called natural product to a horse or pony for health reasons or to affect its performance, who have been informed that the plant of origin or its ingredients do not violate the FEI regulations, may have been misinformed. The use of any herbal or natural product to affect the performance of a horse or pony in a calming (tranquillizing) or an energizing (stimulant) manner is expressly forbidden by the FEI regulations.


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## dressage_diva (23 October 2015)

Popdosh, I appreciate your information but the Naf 'calmer' is a magnesium supplement and therefore effectively is a food supplement designed to address a mineral deficiency and is therefore no different to taking a vitamin/mineral supplement.


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## milliepops (23 October 2015)

I'd be inclined to agree with you D_D - if you read the statement above in that literal way, then it would be against FEI rules to feed oats or any other feedstuff with an energising result.  

I think it has more of an application to, say, a calmer containing valerian which is expressly forbidden as having a tranquilising effect.


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## popsdosh (23 October 2015)

milliepops said:



			I'd be inclined to agree with you D_D - if you read the statement above in that literal way, then it would be against FEI rules to feed oats or any other feedstuff with an energising result.  

I think it has more of an application to, say, a calmer containing valerian which is expressly forbidden as having a tranquilising effect.
		
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You are both missing the point it covers any supplement fed to have a calming effect on a horse. Its the intent of changing its state of mind that is the issue not whether it is detectable. Valerian by the way is a banned substance in its own right. Like I say write to NAF and ask the outright question will I be breaking FEI rules if I feed said supplement. The answer you get back will be along the lines of theres no constituent that is on the banned list however they will not commit and say it is legal to use in competition . Maybe ask BD as that was what the question was about. I tried to answer the question by pointing out that no calmer can be BD legal because it is against the rules to give anything for that effect


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## dressage_diva (23 October 2015)

Popdosh I appreciate your point of view but at the end of the day giving a horse a magnesium supplement is no different to giving a horse electrolytes when they are in hard work. It could be argued that I am giving the horse the magnesium purely because it is deficient in it, and not for any other reason.


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## dressage_diva (23 October 2015)

FYI for anyone interested in the above discussion regarding FEI and calmers, the official 2015 FEI rules are here
https://www.fei.org/sites/default/files/2015 EADCMRS - Effective 1 January 2015 - Final Version.pdf

I cannot find any reference to calmers (particularly in Articles 2.1-2.8 which it says outline the Equine Anti-Doping Rule violations which constitute 'doping'). However, this FEI web page does discuss calmers briefly: http://www.fei.org/fei/cleansport/ad-h/prohibited-list but it also states that 'amino acids' may be used during events legally and my understanding is that some calmers include magnesium in the form of an amino acid?


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## Palindrome (23 October 2015)

I thought it was BE which didn't allow calmers for competitions, I can't find the old thread but it was something along the lines of if it is a supplement fed regularly to the horse it was ok but not as a one off before a competition.

Magnesium is an element, definitely not an amino acid (although it could probably be bound to one, then it's generally said to be "chelated" which means strongly attached chemically) but I would not class it as a herbal or natural product either. For more info about production:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_oxide , although NAF is magnesium chloride if they haven't changed it in the last few years.

ETA: that's the thread https://forums-secure.horseandhound...ope-with-my-horses-stress-when-eventing/page2, so it's indeed the FEI that's quoted not just BE


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## {97702} (23 October 2015)

I give my TB the NAF Magic powder and it definitely improves him - I had to give up trying to give him liquid/paste calmer as it wasn't worth the fight with trying to use a syringe.....


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## dressage_diva (23 October 2015)

Thanks Pallindrone. I was aware Magnesium is an element but sometimes the form in which it is contained in some supplements can be an amino acid.


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## WelshD (24 October 2015)

I'm not sure if Confidence EQ would be competition legal but it's a different approach in that it's a gel you wipe on the horse's nostrils that works along a similar line as the dog plug in diffusers for anxiety 

I've seen some good reviews. You can buy single sachets on Amazon


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## popsdosh (24 October 2015)

Not in anti doping rules as its not a doping offence its in the general rules because it is expressly forbidden to administer one of whatever type.
Surely the logical thing to do is ask BD outright and get the definitive answer . However seeing as BD rules are based on FEI and BEF I cannot see how they will tell you any different


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## popsdosh (24 October 2015)

dressage_diva said:



			Popdosh I appreciate your point of view but at the end of the day giving a horse a magnesium supplement is no different to giving a horse electrolytes when they are in hard work. It could be argued that I am giving the horse the magnesium purely because it is deficient in it, and not for any other reason.
		
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I am assuming then that your horse has had a metabolic profile done to establish that its lacking in magnesium. If so there are far cheaper and longer acting remedies that you can use. You could try an old trick feed it less and work it harder.


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## Palindrome (24 October 2015)

popsdosh said:



			I am assuming then that your horse has had a metabolic profile done to establish that its lacking in magnesium. If so there are far cheaper and longer acting remedies that you can use. You could try an old trick feed it less and work it harder.
		
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Popdosh you are being a bit harsh, plenty of horses get magnesium supplementation. It is widely used in general day to day supplements, even those that are not designed for calming and if I understand well it is harmless as any excess is easily excreted in urine (but the body can't store much) and UK forage and grazing is generally high in calcium (and potassium) so it can be beneficial to add magnesium to a horse's feed. Forage plus, Prohoof and Equivita are examples of supplements which provide magnesium without being marketed as "calmers".


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## HayleyUK (24 October 2015)

Confidence EQ is legal; I use it for my worrier type. It doesn't dull the sparkle but gives me enough just to get inside her head.


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## popsdosh (24 October 2015)

Palindrome said:



			Popdosh you are being a bit harsh, plenty of horses get magnesium supplementation. It is widely used in general day to day supplements, even those that are not designed for calming and if I understand well it is harmless as any excess is easily excreted in urine (but the body can't store much) and UK forage and grazing is generally high in calcium (and potassium) so it can be beneficial to add magnesium to a horse's feed. Forage plus, Prohoof and Equivita are examples of supplements which provide magnesium without being marketed as "calmers".
		
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In which case as I have suggested perhaps getting a definitive answer from BD is the way forward . I merely pointed out that under FEI rules no substance even a bucket of water is allowed with the intention of altering its natural way of going. Dont get me going on the magnesium subject as most riders are sucked in by the hype the supplement manufacturers throw at you. It is a subject I know very well and more problems can be caused by over supplementing it. Surely if you think your horse is short of magnesium a simple blood profile will give you the answer


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## Leo Walker (24 October 2015)

popsdosh said:



			Dont get me going on the magnesium subject as most riders are sucked in by the hype the supplement manufacturers throw at you. It is a subject I know very well and more problems can be caused by over supplementing it. Surely if you think your horse is short of magnesium a simple blood profile will give you the answer
		
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Is that the same hype that sucks in the cattle farmers who have to supplement as UK grazing is very often deficient in magnesium? I'm glad my horse seems to have been sucked in by the hype as well, because when the grass flushes, if he doesnt get it, hes an idiot.


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## shortstuff99 (24 October 2015)

TBH I think you will be hard pressed to find many BD riders that DONT use a calmer, including top level riders. I've seen calmers being advertised with pictures of HOYs etc winners on saying how the calmer helped them win! Yet nobody eliminates them from competiting. If it helps your horse have a better experience so that in the future you won't need one then I would try it.


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## dressage_diva (24 October 2015)

Thanks everyone for the replies with suggestions of good products (I'll investigate them all). I am also planning to speak to BD about magensium supplementation/calmers (though I suspect they will just point me to the FEI documentation and I won't get a definitive answer). We already have our winter regional qualification and are taking some time out of competition for a bit anyways so going to give the daily feed calmer a try and see if it helps him settle even when we go away from home for lessons/clinics.


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## milliepops (24 October 2015)

Interestingly the NAF site says




			Note: NAF are pleased to confirm that the magnesium used in Instant Magic does not contravene FEI rules and is safe for use in all horses.
		
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so *they* at least seem pretty sure....

Similarly Nupafeed, which is the other one I've used in the past to try and tackle anxiety due to yard move



			Are Nupafeed products legal to use in competition?
Yes, all Nupafeed products are free of banned substances in accordance with the FEI and other governing bodies.
		
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Interesting!


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## tallyho! (24 October 2015)

I think sometimes horses do need a little something to help the nerves and I think magnesium is a good way if it works. If you're feed contains enough Mg already then it may be the uptake pathway that needs looking at i.e. the gut. There may something you're feeding that's cancelling it out.

From my experience in Mg supplementation, it's better to test in urine as it's so readily excreted by the kidneys and since there is very little Mg in the serum, it's hard to do a blood profile and I think most vets will do urine tests. I think it's called an EMg? Can't remember but it does accurately calculate levels of Mg according to the NRC.

I would look to profile the diet as a whole though as if you don't address that, then it becomes a vicious cycle. I was supplementing and then changed diets and we haven't really had an issue, not even with a sudden flush of grass.


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## popsdosh (24 October 2015)

FrankieCob said:



			Is that the same hype that sucks in the cattle farmers who have to supplement as UK grazing is very often deficient in magnesium? I'm glad my horse seems to have been sucked in by the hype as well, because when the grass flushes, if he doesnt get it, hes an idiot.
		
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Thats how I make my living with cattle lol. Youj have to very carefully supplement magnesium as most is stored in the skeletal system and most acute hypomag attacks are due to the animal not being able to mobilise that magnesium when the forage ie lush grass is low in magnesium. The problem is made worse if supplementation takes place ahead of the need as the bodies ability to mobilise the magnesium is impaired through not being needed. I do wonder how people managed all these difficult horses that require calmers before they were available! Hence why I say the perceived need is brought about by the advertising. Also my point is if you suspect your horse is short of magnesium why do people spend huge amounts on these supplements when for 3p/day you can give them all they need.
Logic says if a magnesium calmer( single use) works on your horse you may have a magnesium deficiency that you are not dealing with in the correct way.


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## spookypony (24 October 2015)

I think the FEI wording is very safe (for them) and allows them a lot of leeway. Theoretically, a magnesium-based calmer should only work if there is an underlying deficiency, in which case it's not really "doping" in the generally-understood sense---but their wording makes it sound, to me, that even if something isn't actually performance-enhancing, or if something is addressing a deficiency, it could be regarded as "doping" so long as the person giving the substance _believes_ that it would be performance-enhancing.

It seems to me that if you believe that your horse's nerves at competitions could be helped by magnesium-based calmers, you implicitly believe that he might be suffering from a deficiency---and should find out (through nutritional analysis or trial and error) if this is indeed the case. In which case, there's no problem with the rules.


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## PapaFrita (25 October 2015)

dressage_diva said:



			I have a very hot, sensitive warmblood who is a bit of a worrier about life generally. Whenever he arrives at a venue he is incredibly nervous until I get on him when he chills out. 

In fact pretty much as soon as he's plaited up he gets anxious about going competing. As soon as we arrive at a venue he is very unsettled and I had hoped that the more he went out the more relaxed he would be, but that hasn't happened so far. We've tried going to both quiet and busier venues, and he's been back to venues multiple times but he's no more chilled even if he knows the venue! We've tried giving him plenty of time to relax before I get on and the opposite too - getting to venue very late and getting straight on but it makes no difference to him. He's anxious whether I tack him up on the lorry, or tied up by the lorry (I don't do this any more as he panicked and broke loose once). As soon as I get on he is super chilled - he is not nervous at all (you can almost see him breathe a sigh a relief once I'm on!) and he's super brave and chilled in warm up arena and the test arena. After the test he's pretty relaxed and is no longer stressed. I've tried taking him out in the lorry to lessons too but he's still anxious as soon as he arrives. I don't think he's picking up nerves from me (but I am considering getting someone else to take him out instead of me to confirm this).

I'm wondering whether there might be a BD legal calmer which might help him be less anxious when he arrives somewhere (without taking the edge of him when I ride)? He's an absolute sweetheart and I have high hopes for him in Dressage but he's a bit of a worrier about life and I'm sure that given a few years he will start to relax but I'm wondering what I can do in the meantime as I don't like to see him so anxious! I also think the worry is tiring him out as he always seems to tire much quicker when riding him at a venue away from home (he doesn't seem to find the actual travelling stressful - he doesn't sweat up and he stands quietly eating until we arrive somewhere and the lorry stops!).

Any ideas?
		
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Coligone works wonders for LC when going to new yards/shows. I think the excitement must affects his digestion (he's a terrible fidget ) and this has helped sooo much


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## burtie (25 October 2015)

popsdosh said:



			Not in anti doping rules as its not a doping offence its in the general rules because it is expressly forbidden to administer one of whatever type.
Surely the logical thing to do is ask BD outright and get the definitive answer . However seeing as BD rules are based on FEI and BEF I cannot see how they will tell you any different
		
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I have used this argument before, but obviously people don't like to be accused of cheating even if that is what it is! This is why most of the calmers will never have any kind of clinic trial, if it is proven to work it will be explicitly banned not just implicitly!


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## rachk89 (25 October 2015)

I probably wouldn't even do anything about it honestly. He is fine once you get on, fine in the arena and fine after and going home. He is probably just getting new smells and getting a bit worked up but since he is fine once you are on I would just leave him to get on with it. He may calm down by himself eventually but at least he isn't being a total idiot all the time when away.

Really if it's his nerves he would be like this even once you are on it wouldn't just be like flicking a switch and they are turned off which is what it sounds like. Do you take him with other horses? If not maybe try that?


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## dressage_diva (25 October 2015)

Thanks rachk98. I originally thought it wasn't an issue as he is fine once I am on, but his behaviour at recent events when trying to tack him up has led me to rethink - he has snapped a leather headcollar whilst panicking and ran loose in the lorry park fully tacked up and he's also panicked whilst being left in the lorry when I went to get his saddle (I had left the partition open and he spun and started reversing down the ramp even though he was tied up (I only left partition open as I was on my own and was literally getting saddle out of tack locker - lesson learnt there).

I don't take him with any other horses as I'm the only person at my yard who does dressage so I don't have anyone to take on the lorry with him and tbh I'm reluctant to get him too used to having a friend with him as he can be quite vocal and I'd worry he'll start calling for them from the warm up!

I am hoping the more he goes out the better as he is so talented, but he is clearly a sensitive chap so I don't want him to get upset either.


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## rachk89 (25 October 2015)

Yeah that's true too he could end up a bit dependent on the other horse.

Maybe try taking him along early and take him straight off the lorry and walk him around outside for ages? Just trying to get him to relax and listen to your voice dunno if you have tried that or not. Would work better with someone there with you who can bring tack and stuff over.

Or try to get someone else to take him like you said see if you have some nerves. I do find that I am nervous about a competition right up until I get on the horse then I relax. Maybe it's the same for you.


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## _GG_ (26 October 2015)

I am doing some filming with the FEI Vice President, John McEwen this Thursday so I will ask him for a brief clarification on this if I remember!


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## Goldenstar (26 October 2015)

unicornystar said:



			only one I ever use which has worked on three different horses is the syringe Equine America SO KALM + paste, I use an hour before the effect is needed, took the edge hugely off an insane TB, worked on a tricky mare and amazing on a worrying gelding that I have.
		
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Me too this one has worked for me .


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## Cowpony (27 October 2015)

I'm watching this thread with interest as I posted in another thread recently that I had been shocked at a big competition to be told by another competitor that she had given her horse a calmer. I had read the rules and have to say my interpretation was the same as popsdosh. I had also read the list of banned substances and come to the conclusion that as the commercial calmers tend to list ingredients, but not substances, and the FEI lists substances, but not the ingredients they are found in, the only safe way to ensure I was not breaking the rules was to give my horse no calmer at all. She really needed one! :eek3:

I was......well the only word is "attacked" by another poster who thought (wrongly) that I was referring to her and informed me in no uncertain terms that only an idiot wouldn't give a calmer at a big show. I have no problem with people using calmers if they are legal, but I'd really like to know the definitive position so we can all be competing on a level playing field. Then at least I will know if I can give my dragon on a pogo stick something!


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## Cortez (27 October 2015)

Maybe I am hopelessly old fashioned, but I am shocked that people would even consider giving their horses a product that is designed to alter their behaviour, legal or not. Surely that is what training is for? And just as surely, dressage competition is supposed to test the effect of that training, not the effect of whatever mood-altering substance you may or may not have administered. Unbelievable.


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## Cowpony (27 October 2015)

Cortez said:



			Maybe I am hopelessly old fashioned, but I am shocked that people would even consider giving their horses a product that is designed to alter their behaviour, legal or not. Surely that is what training is for? And just as surely, dressage competition is supposed to test the effect of that training, not the effect of whatever mood-altering substance you may or may not have administered. Unbelievable.
		
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Glad I'm not the only one. Could have used your input on that previous thread Cortez


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## dressage_diva (27 October 2015)

Regarding the above comments, many 'calmers' are just magnesium supplements that only work when the horse is already deficient in magnesium (if they're not deficient then the calmers have no effects). Out of interest do you object to correcting a magnesium deficiency?


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## Cowpony (27 October 2015)

Personally I don't object to correcting a deficiency of magnesium if it is legal to do so, and I can see the arguments on both sides. My issue is that many of the commercially prepared calmers contain lots of other things too, and as an amateur rider with little knowledge of these things I cannot be sure if they are legal or not. Others may have more knowledge than me or have access to professional competitors who know for certain. But I bet 90%+ of amateur competitors don't.


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## popsdosh (27 October 2015)

dressage_diva said:



			Regarding the above comments, many 'calmers' are just magnesium supplements that only work when the horse is already deficient in magnesium (if they're not deficient then the calmers have no effects). Out of interest do you object to correcting a magnesium deficiency?
		
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I go back to my previous point you have done nothing to find out if your horse is indeed deficient in magnesium perhaps you dont want to know? If the horse is deficient it should be on a daily supplement  not being given one offs that are designed to give you an advantage over other competitors. If you give a magnesium calmer from a tube prior to competing with the intention of calming your horse you are breaking the rules whether your horse is deficient or not the offence is in the intention to change your horses attitude. You dont really have any defence as magnesium deficiency is properly corrected by diet or daily supplement so why not do that as surely the horse will be easier to manage all the time. Most riders use calmers to mask their inability to manage a horses feeding and excersise and bluntly as a short cut. 
Now I will duck behind the wall but it needed saying. The tried and tested way of getting a youngster used to what its doing is to educate it and if needs be keep repeating the excersise till it becomes the norm.


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## dressage_diva (27 October 2015)

popdosh my question above was not related to my case. I was politely enquiring from the above posters if they had the same attitude towards vitamin/mineral supplements in general.

I haven't made a decision yet what to do about my own situation as I am waiting for further clarification from BD, BEF and FEI which I am currently seeking so there is no need to get personal! (I may very well get my horse's blood/urine tested but that is a decision for me to make when I have all of the information I require). If after seeking all the necessary information I decide my horse requires magnesium supplementation I would definitely do it with a daily product rather than administering something only on the day of competing so I'm not sure why you're accusing me of that as I have never suggested I would like to give them a quick calmer purely on days when competing!

I raised this thread to just gain information on a) what is legal (and we've all ascertained the rulings are somewhat abiguous and further clarification I needed - which I am currently seeking!) and b) what others have found useful. I appreciate everyone's advice and it's a shame the tone of the thread had become somewhat accusatory and negative!


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## old hand (27 October 2015)

I wonder if rather than nervous he is excited and that is why he appears to calm down when you get on?  If so Pro Kalm might work and is alleged to be amino acids only so should be legal, well it was used for our team for the Olympics!  My old Grade A jumper was like that but always gave 100% with a rider on,  we either hacked him there ( not an option with today's tarffic I know) or my dad led him round for an hour or more before I mounted, eventually he calmed down.  the best option was to ride ten miles on him and then do a short warm up.  He was a very sharp horse but always professional in the ring.  We didn't have calmers in those days and to start with ten miles the day before as well was the best option. He was kept very fit so ten miles was not a stress to him, he jumped until he was 22 and I truly believe having him event fit 99% of the time kept him going.  Not that we had a choice he was unshod and untrimmable so had to be ridden continually and never walked at less than about 6 miles an hour.


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## tallyho! (27 October 2015)

old hand said:



			I wonder if rather than nervous he is excited and that is why he appears to calm down when you get on?  If so Pro Kalm might work and is alleged to be amino acids only so should be legal, well it was used for our team for the Olympics!  My old Grade A jumper was like that but always gave 100% with a rider on,  we either hacked him there ( not an option with today's tarffic I know) or my dad led him round for an hour or more before I mounted, eventually he calmed down.  the best option was to ride ten miles on him and then do a short warm up.  He was a very sharp horse but always professional in the ring.  We didn't have calmers in those days and to start with ten miles the day before as well was the best option. He was kept very fit so ten miles was not a stress to him, he jumped until he was 22 and I truly believe having him event fit 99% of the time kept him going.  Not that we had a choice he was unshod and untrimmable so had to be ridden continually and never walked at less than about 6 miles an hour.
		
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I'm afraid this was in the back of my mind too... how did we cope before calmers?

I suppose we just got on with it and tired them out either by hacking or having someone walk them or exercise them. I used to be a groom for a show producer of tb's and had to ride them for quite a while before she could go in the ring and there was a knack to calming down an ex-racehorse!


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## Rollin (27 October 2015)

I would have thought that before commercial calmer were invented, horsemen used substances like Valerian, which is banned.  A farrier advised me to put Vick on my stallion's nose so he would not get excited by mares in season - that is classified as a drug but Balsabalm is not although as far as I can see both products are the same.


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## Cortez (28 October 2015)

Rollin said:



			I would have thought that before commercial calmer were invented, horsemen used substances like Valerian, which is banned.  A farrier advised me to put Vick on my stallion's nose so he would not get excited by mares in season - that is classified as a drug but Balsabalm is not although as far as I can see both products are the same.
		
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Well I would imagine that before calmers were invented horsemen used.........horsemanship.


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## mrsh2010 (28 October 2015)

If Magic isn't BD legal, why is it often advertised on their website?


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## tallyho! (28 October 2015)

Rollin said:



			I would have thought that before commercial calmer were invented, horsemen used substances like Valerian, which is banned.  A farrier advised me to put Vick on my stallion's nose so he would not get excited by mares in season - that is classified as a drug but Balsabalm is not although as far as I can see both products are the same.
		
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I always thought valerian was brilliant personally. I take it myself.

However, I don't know that many people used it in my low level circles... people just bought sensible horses . However, continuously lunging horses behind the trailers seemed to be the done thing. My pet hate!


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## Cortez (29 October 2015)

tallyho! said:



			I always thought valerian was brilliant personally. I take it myself.

However, I don't know that many people used it in my low level circles... people just bought sensible horses . However, continuously lunging horses behind the trailers seemed to be the done thing. My pet hate!
		
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I'd rather work it than drug it.


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