# Ok folks....the wait is over (hopefully..!!)



## SatansLittleHelper (14 May 2019)

I went the other day and viewed a horse that made me grin the very second I saw her 
She's approx 17hh, chestnut/white coloured mare, 11 years old in June. She's done it all at one point or another but for the last two years has been doing hacking, fun rides and a bit of jumping. She's hunted in the past and has some serious scope in that department. She likes to just crack on with it. She's incredibly polite and has the most soft, friendly eyes ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ She felt very forward but super safe.
Hacks on her own without a care in the world â¤â¤â¤
I could only fine one "fault" and that is that she dishes at the front, not terribly but it's there. Doesn't affect her work though and she doesnt have any lumps, bumps or knocks to her legs etc.
So as long as her vetting goes ok on Thursday then it looks like I've got me a horse ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
Also she is currently named Crunchie...which I absolutely refuse to call any horse ever lol. So thinking of changing it to Gucci..?? ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤”

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/118963324/beautifull-coloured-mare.html?link=/search?keyword=Horse+Wrexham+&sectionId=3365


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## dogatemysalad (14 May 2019)

She looks and sounds great. I really like her. Fingers crossed with the vetting.


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## Pinkvboots (14 May 2019)

She looks lovely fingers crossed for vetting.


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## bonny (14 May 2019)

Very nice, I can see why sheâ€™s the one


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## ycbm (14 May 2019)

Woop woop. Great news, everything crossed for vetting.


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## rowan666 (14 May 2019)

She is beautiful!


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## oldie48 (14 May 2019)

Smart mare, I hope she passes the vet and you have years of fun with her. She sounds great and just what you are looking for. Good luck!


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## Shady (14 May 2019)

Well that's more like it , good luck. xxx


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## southerncomfort (14 May 2019)

Congrats!!  Will keep everything firmly crossed for the vetting! ðŸ™‚


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## kinnygirl1 (14 May 2019)

So pleased for you. Will keep fingers crossed for the vetting


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## Lexi_ (14 May 2019)

Oh I like the sound of her! And her name - Crunchie is fun ðŸ˜„


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## ElleSkywalker (14 May 2019)

She's lovely! Everything crossed and I rather like the name Crunchie


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## Mahoganybay (14 May 2019)

Fingers crossed for the vetting Thursday, she looks lovely and nothing compares to that â€˜feelingâ€™ you get when you have found the one. 

Hope it all works out for you


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## splashgirl45 (14 May 2019)

great news........ really pleased for you she sounds and looks  lovely ,   fingers crossed for the vetting,  we will need lots of pics when she comes home

i quite like the name but doesnt really suit her....when i got my horse i didnt like her name but she knew it when i called her so it stayed....is it her passport name?


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## Lintel (14 May 2019)

Oh fingers crossed for you! I quite like Crumchie but she doesn't suit it imo.  But oh no not Gucci surely?


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## Leo Walker (14 May 2019)

I'm glad you finally posted. I've known for a little while now and its been killing me not saying anything


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## SatansLittleHelper (14 May 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			I'm glad you finally posted. I've known for a little while now and its been killing me not saying anything 

Click to expand...

Haha you've done well ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Suggestions on name are welcomed but Crunchie can't stay...as I said to LW..it sounds like something manly in the fridge ðŸ¤®ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜±ðŸ™ˆ


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## Meowy Catkin (14 May 2019)

Wonderful news!


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## milliepops (14 May 2019)

What's her passport name? 
I changed the stable name of my most recent purchase because I knew another horse with the same name and didn't like it ðŸ™Š
Her new name sounds pretty similar to the original and she cottoned on super fast. So how about something almost rhyming? Frenchy/ie (like the film grease?!) came to mind but I'm sure  others will come up with better suggestions. 

She looks lovely btw. Everything crossed for the vetting.


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## Caol Ila (14 May 2019)

Nice horse, but I agree -- Crunchie is a terrible name.  IMO, so is Gucci.  What about giving her a solid, human name.  Like Amy, or Lindsay, or Alison?


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## Patterdale (14 May 2019)

Nice horse, lovely markings!

I think Crunchie is a nice name - Gucci is dreadful though ðŸ˜‚ sorry!

How about Twix?


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## Roxylola (14 May 2019)

Oh she looks lovely 
What about Cookie?


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## Clodagh (14 May 2019)

Congratulations. Gucco is as bad as Crunchie though. Sorry.


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## On the Hoof (14 May 2019)

She looks lovely so have fingers crossed for you.  I second Twix


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## Tala08 (14 May 2019)

She is a lovely looking mare, best of luck for the vetting!


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## TPO (14 May 2019)

Congratulations! Crossing everything for Thursday

I like Crunchie too


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## Hormonal Filly (14 May 2019)

I saw her on Preloved yesterday!

Sheâ€™s very smart, best of luck! Everything crossed!


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## D66 (14 May 2019)

Hope sheâ€™s as good as she looks. 
Kit kat or kitty. 
Or because of her size - Top Deck. 
Or Wispa.


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## splashgirl45 (14 May 2019)

been trying to think of a name that sounds similar to crunchie just in case she knows her name.

buffy,  dusty,  cuddly, honey,  sunny, bubbly,        or completely different, jasmine (jazz), smartie, sadie, betty, 

perhaps you need to get her home and see what suits her....


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## scats (14 May 2019)

Sheâ€™s lovely.  I quite like Crunchie as a name.


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## little_critter (14 May 2019)

D66 said:



			Hope sheâ€™s as good as she looks.
Kit kat or kitty.
Or because of her size - Top Deck.
Or Wispa.
		
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I think she looks like a Wispa / Whisper too.


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## blodwyn1 (14 May 2019)

Chia as this is close to the end sound of crunchie! I personally do not change the names of my horses as I think its unlucky but will sometimes adapt a name.


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## Bernster (14 May 2019)

Gorgeous. Good luck. Agree doesnâ€™t look like a crunchie.  Iâ€™d see what comes to mind from her passport name.


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## 9tails (14 May 2019)

That's a proper 'orse.  Great find!


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## Amymay (14 May 2019)

I think a few of us liked her from the other post.

Crunchie is a super name. Gucci is a hideous name ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜†


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## Remi'sMum (14 May 2019)

Everything firmly crossed here for Thursday!!! She looks gorgeous! What about Munchie, cos sheâ€™s so lovely you just want to munch her!! And that lends itself well to silly in-love-with-my-horse adaptations, Munchie MooMoo, Munchie Wunchie, Scrummy Munchie... ok, Iâ€™ll shut up now ðŸ˜‚


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## JFTDWS (14 May 2019)

Congratulations!  I prefer Crunchie to Gucci too!


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## Peregrine Falcon (14 May 2019)

She looks super. Will have my fingers crossed for you Thursday.


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## Goldenstar (14 May 2019)

Fingers crossed for the vetting


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## Pearlsasinger (14 May 2019)

She sounds perfect for you.  I hope all goes well with the vetting.


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## Red-1 (14 May 2019)

Congratulations and good luck for Thursday!


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## Meowy Catkin (14 May 2019)

Lady Crunchie and then drop the 'Crunchie' bit?


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## Imogen Rose (14 May 2019)

Great looking horse! My pony is called crunchie, which I thought was odd and didnt like at first.. but her passport name is crystal which I thought was more daft. 4 years later I couldn't imagine calling her anything else! Does get adjusted to munchie? Also equally daft once written down ðŸ˜‚


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## SatansLittleHelper (14 May 2019)

Thanks everyone...I'm not keen on Gucci either but it was as close as I can get ðŸ™ˆ Sadly, her passport name is also bloody Crunchie (that will also be changed ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚) so no inspiration there ðŸ™„ðŸ™„ðŸ™„
For a completely different sounding name I like Savannah. My friend's cob that will be her field mate is Ruby so people have suggested Jewel, Sapphire etc. I'm not keen on people names for horses really ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤”


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## Midlifecrisis (15 May 2019)

Tiptoes in to whisper..â€I like the name Gucciâ€...tiptoes out....


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## G&T (15 May 2019)

Yayyyy! She looks super, best of luck for the vetting.

Iâ€™m another who thinks Crunchie is quite sweet. I like stable names that are easy to shout down the field ðŸ˜ anything more than two syllables is far too tiring so you just end up shortening anyway! Flower names are nice for horses, how about Daisy? Or if youâ€™re changing her passport name you could call her something more glamorous on that, like Tiger-Lily, then call her Tigs or Lil for short?
Sorry I realise you hadnâ€™t actually asked for name suggestions!! ðŸ˜‚


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## rabatsa (15 May 2019)

Sushi.

Pleased that you have found a suitable horse at last.


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## Ellietotz (15 May 2019)

milliepops said:



			What's her passport name?
I changed the stable name of my most recent purchase because I knew another horse with the same name and didn't like it ðŸ™Š
Her new name sounds pretty similar to the original and she cottoned on super fast. So how about something almost rhyming? Frenchy/ie (like the film grease?!) came to mind but I'm sure  others will come up with better suggestions.
		
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She's beautiful and I definitely vote for Frenchy for her name!


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## Leo Walker (15 May 2019)

I like Frenchie as well! Or what about Red to go with the other mare?


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## HEM (15 May 2019)

rabatsa said:



			Sushi.

Pleased that you have found a suitable horse at last.
		
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I like Sushi!! It's cute. 

She's gorgeous by the way! I'm keeping mt fingers crossed for tomorrow!


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## Ellzbellz97 (15 May 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			I like Frenchie as well! Or what about Red to go with the other mare?
		
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Another vote for Frenchy!


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## Nasicus (15 May 2019)

To put it into perspective, I have a chestnut (ginger!!) and white, and the local 13yo's started calling her Gucci when they went past 

So long as the name as the same amount of syllables and ends in the same tone, so 'crun-chee' then I'm sure she'll quickly pick up on it and respond!

She's also rather nice, all fingers crossed for you!


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## Rosemary28 (15 May 2019)

Frenchie is a nice name. Fingers crossed for you OP!


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## tristar (15 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I went the other day and viewed a horse that made me grin the very second I saw her 
She's approx 17hh, chestnut/white coloured mare, 11 years old in June. She's done it all at one point or another but for the last two years has been doing hacking, fun rides and a bit of jumping. She's hunted in the past and has some serious scope in that department. She likes to just crack on with it. She's incredibly polite and has the most soft, friendly eyes ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ She felt very forward but super safe.
Hacks on her own without a care in the world â¤â¤â¤
I could only fine one "fault" and that is that she dishes at the front, not terribly but it's there. Doesn't affect her work though and she doesnt have any lumps, bumps or knocks to her legs etc.
So as long as her vetting goes ok on Thursday then it looks like I've got me a horse ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
Also she is currently named Crunchie...which I absolutely refuse to call any horse ever lol. So thinking of changing it to Gucci..?? ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤”

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/118963324/beautifull-coloured-mare.html?link=/search?keyword=Horse+Wrexham+&sectionId=3365

Click to expand...

 if shes that good i might call her chanel or armani


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## Floxie (15 May 2019)

Hahaha so many opinions on her name! Mine is - Crunchie is really unfortunate  Gucci is bleh! Sushi is ace though, how cute!

She looks fabulous, what a find - matches to a T everything you've described as ideal  I have everything crossed for you tomorrow!


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## timbobs (15 May 2019)

I haven't commented on any of your posts, but I have been following your journey.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you tomorrow!

I quite like the name Crunchie but I love the chocolate bars


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## Hollychops (15 May 2019)

She looks lovely! I like Crunchies but not sure it suits from the pics, but i dont like Gucci. Whatever you call her doesnt really matter its what she means to you and the fun you have that does matter.

Looking forward to a successful vetting tomorrow, i will be watching the forum with baited breath  

If you are not keen on keeping Crunchie, maybe wait until you have had her a while and then think what she suits.


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## AandK (15 May 2019)

She looks like a lovely mare, fingers crossed for tomorrow! I also love the name Crunchie, if it can't stay then was going to suggest Frenchie but someone beat me to it. Defo not Gucci...!!


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## 2ndtimearound (15 May 2019)

Although you mentioned you don't like human names, how about one of these (they aren't all that common as human names, I don't think, so no one would necessarily notice):
Chichi - meaning clear, bright and famous
Suruchi/Suruchie - a Sanskrit name meaning having good taste


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## Roxylola (15 May 2019)

Susie, or Cherry?


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## Zero00000 (15 May 2019)

She looks lovely, good luck for Thursday.

I like Chia and Sushi from the suggestions, I like Opal too, a rare jewel


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## Summit (15 May 2019)

Connie ?


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## GreyMane (15 May 2019)

Honeybee?


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## Palindrome (15 May 2019)

Cookie
or perhaps Biscuit as a bit posher (and infinite amount of jokes: I am taking the biscuit today,etc...)


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## MotherOfChickens (15 May 2019)

she looks grand, good luck with the vetting.

I really like Crunchie! better than calling her after a type of seed or raw fish


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## Carrottom (15 May 2019)

Good luck with the vetting.
I like Crunchie and Munchie (friend has these two) but I think Chichi is a lovely name.


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## luckyoldme (15 May 2019)

Fingers crossed for you ...as for her name..why don't you wait until you know her personality 
Good luck !


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## blitznbobs (15 May 2019)

Honey - after all a crunchie is honeycomb.


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## Meredith (15 May 2019)

2ndtimearound said:



			Good luck with the vetting. but I think Chichi is a lovely name.
		
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Showing my age here and not wanting to put a hex on any vetting by suggesting a name but wasnâ€™t Chi Chi a panda?

Hoping all goes well with the mare SLH


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## Remi'sMum (16 May 2019)

Fingers, toes, hooves and paws all very firmly crossed here for you and Crunchie/Munchie/Gucci/Sushi today xxx


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## On the Hoof (16 May 2019)

Fingers crossed for today x


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## JenniD (16 May 2019)

Good luck with the vetting. Looking forward to hearing all about it!


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## Gleeful Imp (16 May 2019)

Fingers firmly crossed for you today. She looks a lovely mare. Another vote for Crunchie, sorry don't like Gucci, but some fab suggestions- Cookie and ChiChi. If you're anything like me she'll just get called Poppet anyway!!!


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## Red-1 (16 May 2019)

Suzi is nice.


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## siennamiller (16 May 2019)

Good luck today. Hope it goes well.


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## Amymay (16 May 2019)

Good luck today


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## Hollychops (16 May 2019)

How about Bernard??? :0  Sorry, always wanted to call a horse Bernard  i'll get my coat!! lol...


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## splashgirl45 (16 May 2019)

good luck for today


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## wren123 (16 May 2019)

Good luck today x


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## LaurenBay (16 May 2019)

Honey is a lovely name!


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## conniegirl (16 May 2019)

good luck for today. Fingers crossed for the vetting.


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## JFTDWS (16 May 2019)

Good luck today!

I'm really here just to goggle in horror at everyone's terrible taste in names...!

Sushi?! Frenchy?!  Chia?!? Lil?!


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## Tihamandturkey (16 May 2019)

Good luck - I think she looks like an Amber ðŸ˜Š


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## ester (16 May 2019)

JFTD-WS said:



			Good luck today!

I'm really here just to goggle in horror at everyone's terrible taste in names...!

Sushi?! Frenchy?!  Chia?!? Lil?! 

Click to expand...

phew, I really was not getting the raw fish thing at all


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## Po Knee (16 May 2019)

Best of luck for today.... everything crossable is firmly crossed!! 

Assuming she passes how about Toffee Crunch... that way you have a choice of derivatives from which to choose whilst warding off bad luck by changing her moname too much. I do realise the chocolate bar too which I am referring is actually Toffee Crisp but that would just be odd. Unless she looks like a Crispy of course ... ðŸ˜±


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## southerncomfort (16 May 2019)

I think she looks like a Darcy....sorry that's not even remotely like Crunchie! ðŸ˜ƒ

Good luck for today!  I've been thinking about you all morning.


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## Pearlsasinger (16 May 2019)

I so hope that the vetting is going well!


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## On the Hoof (16 May 2019)

just popped in to see if there was an update, got to go out now so will have to wait till tonight.  Hope its going well.


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## BOWS28 (16 May 2019)

Good Luck!! Hope all goes well for you x


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## bonny (16 May 2019)

The whole forum is waiting anxiously ........


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## ElectricChampagne (16 May 2019)

dying to hear! hope it all goes well!


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 May 2019)

Vetting will be at 2pm so no news yet.
I'm a nervous wreck already lol


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## 9tails (16 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Vetting will be at 2pm so no news yet.
I'm a nervous wreck already lol
		
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So are we!


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## WandaMare (16 May 2019)

Hoping all goes well today, not long to wait now


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## rara007 (16 May 2019)

Good luck


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## Zero00000 (16 May 2019)

eeee good luck ðŸ¤žðŸ¤ž


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## Merrymoles (16 May 2019)

Oh lord - five minutes until vetting! Everything crossed for you!


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## Goldenstar (16 May 2019)

I hate this bit ... the waiting


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## Po Knee (16 May 2019)

Eek so it's happening now! How long do vettings take? I shall think positive thoughts until I hear it's finished ðŸ˜Š


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## Chippers1 (16 May 2019)

Good luck with the vetting! I quite like Crunchie  I didn't like Buzz's name when I got him (not enough syllables!) but it's grown on me. Or I just call him Buzzles ha ha.


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## Bernster (16 May 2019)

I've only been to 1 vetting in person - it's so much less stressful to be there than waiting around for the result!  Looking forward to the news.


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## Hormonal Filly (16 May 2019)

I feel excited.. and its someone elses potential horse!


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## ycbm (16 May 2019)

Drumming fingers on desk here ..........


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## On the Hoof (16 May 2019)

Checking in from the yard - May have to bath pony next to kill the time.....


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## Rosemary28 (16 May 2019)

Work is quiet so I keep checking in every so often, fingers still tightly crossed!


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## Fluffypiglet (16 May 2019)

This is hilarious, I wonder if the vet is aware of the number of people waiting on the outcome.... It's very stressful for us. Hope it's going well.


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## LaurenBay (16 May 2019)

Op it is not ok to keep us waiting this long .


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## BallyJ (16 May 2019)

HOW long is this vetting op?!


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## TPO (16 May 2019)

Had to sneak back on to check for an update. Trust my manager to be here today of all days!


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## HEM (16 May 2019)

I am hoping this is good sign! OP celebrating new horse already?


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## Denbob (16 May 2019)

Everything still crossed (and losing feeling!)


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## ycbm (16 May 2019)

This isn't feeling good ..........  SLH should have known by 3.30, 4pm at the absolute latest.  

ðŸ˜•ðŸ˜•ðŸ˜•


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## WandaMare (16 May 2019)

Its only 4.30, she could still be doing the deal, lets hope so


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## Roxylola (16 May 2019)

Mmm, the wait is making me not so optimistic but possibly if the vet was late etc and SLH is not there and waiting to hear then it's not a stretch to still be waiting.


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## TPO (16 May 2019)

I had a horse pass a vetting but it took hours for the vet to contact me (I wasnt present). Vet did say she would have failed horse on her behaviour because of how sharp she was bit seller had told her I was fully aware and fine about it (true) so I think she wanted to speak to me before confirming anything.

On the other hand when I had a potential horse fail the vetting the vet stopped it early because there was no point proceeding (horse lame)and I knew within half an hour.

So no news doesn't mean bad news ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤žðŸ»


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## dogatemysalad (16 May 2019)

Really hoping for good news here. Fingers crossed.


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## Bernster (16 May 2019)

So funny how many people are hanging on for the news.  Hopefully another 'HHO horse' on its way.  My most memorable vet call was when I was at a work conference in Miami and got the call whilst I was on South Beach in the sun watching the ocean - now that does not happen often!


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## BenvardenRach2 (16 May 2019)

refresh, refresh, refresh... totally NOT doing any work


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## Mahoganybay (16 May 2019)

Hoping itâ€™s good news for the Op. my recent experience of a vetting that I couldnâ€™t attend was that the vet rang me at the end of his working day, which was 7pm.

I was on pins all day.


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## AandK (16 May 2019)

OP is online, I hope it's good news?!


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 May 2019)

Ok guys so here is how it's gone....(I was luckily able to attend the vetting).
Vet thinks there is currently a mild neurological disorder causing hypermetric gait in her near hind. There is slight muscle wastage on that side too. This was most obvious on the lunge, in tight circles and when being backed up. He checked her eyes several times as she felt a little bit "not all there" if you get what I mean??
She forges a little with her right hind but nothing major. The dishing of the fronts is not an issue. He feels that she possibly has a mild shiver and is concerned that this could not only be part of a bigger neurological problem but that it could get worse.
Everything else was fine and bloods have been taken.
At this point she is fit for purpose but extreme caution advised.
So now I have to make a decision based on all of that.


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## Roxylola (16 May 2019)

Eek, that's a fair old compromise to be making.
Did you speak to Janet George about the horse she mentioned?


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## wren123 (16 May 2019)

Oh bugger


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## On the Hoof (16 May 2019)

AandK said:



			OP is online, I hope it's good news?!
		
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Iâ€™m nervous now


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## JGC (16 May 2019)

Oh no, that's sad. I had one with ataxia which got worse, and IMHO I wouldn't go near a horse with a mild neurological problem as it could be a real time bomb. 

Good luck deciding.


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## ycbm (16 May 2019)

Oh bugger.   Can you get the price down low enough to make the risk worthwhile?  It's not something that will cost thousands in vet fees to treat,  it will be a question of PTS when it progresses too far for her to be safe to ride. And what insurance might exclude, if you are insuring.

I'd be thinking along the lines of LWVTB three months and Â£500-750

.


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## Hormonal Filly (16 May 2019)

Oh no.. had everything crossed for good news. 

What a decision, the first thing I think of with neurological disorders is neck problems as of the experience with my gelding. 

Ergh


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## be positive (16 May 2019)

She may be 'fit for purpose' but would need to be at a give away price to make me advise anyone to consider going ahead, nothing will be covered by insurance so it would be that you can either afford to investigate if she deteriorates or harden your heart and pts. 
You may struggle to buy one that will pass the vet but this sounds far too much of a risk.


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## Meredith (16 May 2019)

Oh goodness SLH.
I know nothing about neurological disorders but feel that you need and deserve a healthy horse so that you can be happy together without any worries.


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## ihatework (16 May 2019)

Hmmmm .... itâ€™s the kind of situation you were always likely to find yourself in if you found the horse of the right type/temperament/age and within budget ..... a compromise on the vetting.

Has the horse been in consistent work and under the same ownership for a while? Can you get a copy of the horses vet records?

How did the owner take it? Might they take a significantly lower offer?

Thing is, if itâ€™s just a shiver, then to be honest the horse should do your job for a number of years. â€˜Ifâ€™ and â€˜shouldâ€™ being the caveats that has a certain level of risk attached.

Personally, if it were me, Iâ€™d offer 1.5k and take the risk if they accept.

Others will tell you to run a mile ðŸ˜œ


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## Pearlsasinger (16 May 2019)

I was going to say, I would ask to have the bloods tested, if she doesn't feel to be'all there', but I'm not sure there would be much point unless she had been sedated to the point where she appeared to be neurologically compromised - and what would be being hidden? 

I would walk away from her, I think, as neuro problems can be dangerous.  We have had 3 pts in old age because they became ataxic.
But I did know a big ID with a mild shiver who never got worse all her life.

That's a real shame, as you liked her so much.  It's difficult when you don't know the vet and s/he doesn't know you, so you don't know if this vet always is pessimistic, or would normally encourage you to take a mild risk.


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## Michen (16 May 2019)

Iâ€™d walk away unless meat money and fully prepared to have shot if needed. Which it will be just a question of how soon.


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## JJS (16 May 2019)

Although I have no experience of her specific problem, I have far too much experience with neurological problems and how they can degenerate. Much as I hate to say it, Iâ€™d walk away, because if youâ€™re as soft as I am, chances are youâ€™ll end up with a very expensive field ornament at some point in the future.


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## buddylove (16 May 2019)

It would be a no from me.....


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 May 2019)

We had already agreed a price, before the vetting, of Â£2200. They have said they have another buyer waiting if I decide I dont want her, to be honest I've not discussed any of this with them in detail yet. I suspect they won't lower the price in any way. I also suspect I may struggle to get a return of my deposit tbh.
The vet does vettings every single day and has said that there is no reason to assume I couldn't by a sane and sound horse for that money judging by the vettings he's been doing, though he was quick to add that none of these will ever set the world on fire talent wise.
Being 100% honest with you all, I've sat and had a discussion with the vet and a friend (a few pathetic tears shed too, partly because she's a lovely mare and partly due to sheer frustration)..and my GUT feeling is that something is definitely not right.


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## ycbm (16 May 2019)

You know the answer then SLH. Sad, but on we go...  back to the sale sites everyone!


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## Snowfilly (16 May 2019)

If your gut says it's not right, walk away. 

So sorry for you but hopefully the right horse is out there somewhere.


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## Meredith (16 May 2019)

ycbm said:



			You know the answer then SLH. Sad, but on we go...  back to the sale sites everyone!
		
Click to expand...

I agree. Better to lose the deposit now than spend a fortune in vets fees and tears in the future.


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## ROMANY 1959 (16 May 2019)

They have to return your deposit if it did fail a vet exam... If you donâ€™t get any joy, then mention trading standards, and how fond you are of facebookðŸ˜± and social media, sorry it didnâ€™t work out.. Donâ€™t take the risk, unless they will take under 1000. I do hope some other unsuspecting buyer doesnâ€™t come along, no vet, and bang they got problems in a year or so..


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## Roxylola (16 May 2019)

I think you've made a good call.  Disappointed for you though


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## eggs (16 May 2019)

Having had a lovely mare show very mild neurological signs - originally thought she may have torn a cartilage in her stifle -  that escalated very rapidly when we drove her up to Newmarket for what we thought was probably a minor op but ended up with her being pts as she went very ataxic I think you are doing the right thing.  The right one is out there somewhere.


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## TPO (16 May 2019)

Walk away.

You never know what's in store when you buy any horse but to buy a problem that is pretty much guaranteed to deteriorate is just setting yourself up for anguish and heartbreak.

Deposit should have been left subject to passing a vetting so they, by rights, should return it. I've only left a vetting deposit once, horse failed and owner refused to return it leaving me Â£100 out of pocket on top of vetting (which vet cut short and kindly only charged me for 2 stage). I guess it's your call if you wish to pursue but you can threaten them with small claims and if they have a buyer waiting then they are most definitely at all. Grrr people

But yeah my vote is to walk away.


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## ester (16 May 2019)

trouble is she didn't 'fail the vetting' if vet said fit for purpose?


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## milliepops (16 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Ok guys so here is how it's gone....(I was luckily able to attend the vetting).
Vet thinks there is currently a mild neurological disorder causing hypermetric gait in her near hind. There is slight muscle wastage on that side too. This was most obvious on the lunge, in tight circles and when being backed up. He checked her eyes several times as she felt a little bit "not all there" if you get what I mean??
		
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Oh what a shame 
I would walk away, I have a horse that was nice to ride a lot of the time but is neurologically compromised and I know exactly what you mean when you say not all there, because that describes her to a T. She's also a super friendly very happy horse but her insurance is full of exclusions now and I don't ride her because she's a time bomb (albeit I have had enough diagnostics to know she's going to decline very slowly).  There WILL be another. I would think you have a good case to ask for your deposit back, the horse is not right.


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## milliepops (16 May 2019)

ester said:



			trouble is she didn't 'fail the vetting' if vet said fit for purpose?
		
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it seems really odd with those kinds of findings, to say the horse is suitable for what the OP wants, in anything but the short term :/


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## ihatework (16 May 2019)

Well go with your gut.
The sellers wonâ€™t see the certificate or speak to the vet so just tell them his opinion was the horse had a neurological issue, most likely a shiver, but without further investigation could be definitive.

I would hope on that basis you have grounds for a deposit return (assuming you agreed it was subject to vetting), if it was just to reserve for first vetting then no you wonâ€™t


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## southerncomfort (16 May 2019)

Oh how disappointing. ðŸ˜”

I would definitely walk away.  Their is no telling how or when she will deteriorate. And then you'd have to PTS.  No one needs that heartache. ðŸ™


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## ihatework (16 May 2019)

milliepops said:



			it seems really odd with those kinds of findings, to say the horse is suitable for what the OP wants, in anything but the short term :/
		
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Horses all over the country with a shiver are doing far more than happy hacking. If itâ€™s a shiver that is. Not all are equal.

It is more than possible the horse is fit for purpose.


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## AandK (16 May 2019)

What a shame, but you had her vetted for a reason. Personally, I think due to the issues you have had, that walking away would be the right thing to do. Re your deposit, she was declared fit for purpose by the vet so I don't see a claim for getting it back.
I don't see why you shouldn't get something to suit within budget, but it may take some time and possibly a few more failed vettings before you do.


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## dixie (16 May 2019)

Oh what a shame.
Having bought a horse that ended up with slight neurological issues (passed vetting) definitely walk away. Heâ€™s been an unrideable pet for the last 4 years.

Edited to say that he forged when I bought him too and I thought he just needed strengthening up.


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## Ceifer (16 May 2019)

dixie said:



			Oh what a shame.
Having bought a horse that ended up with slight neurological issues (passed vetting) definitely walk away. Heâ€™s been an unrideable pet for the last 4 years.
		
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I also had one with neurological issues. Not picked up in the vetting. Degenerated pretty quickly. Not worth the risk


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## HobleytheTB (16 May 2019)

Balls 

So sorry it's not better news. It's not something I'd want to compromise on personally (not that I have any experience of neurological issues), partly because I'd be second guessing every little thing the horse did and worry how much longer she'd be 'good' for. I already stress enough as it is! The 'not all there' bit is a bit worrying  There ARE horses out there that will pass the vetting more convincingly. I don't think that my own vet would have passed this horse by the sounds of it.

I was in your position this time last year, ended up losing my sanity trawling the sites, then had 2 failed vettings and 1 passed (but vet found something I wasn't willing to compromise on). I was throughly demoralised by the whole thing. Now I have a fab mare and all the lost time, money and sanity doesn't seem to matter! This time next year I'm sure you will be in my position, it's just a nightmare all this horse buying nonsense x


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## dogatemysalad (16 May 2019)

What a shame.It's so disappointing, but if you decide to walk away, don't give up. I paid Â£3k last year for an 11 yr old sane, 16.2 ISH who will hunt all day and jump anything in front of him. There are good horses out there for realistic prices.


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## Amymay (16 May 2019)

Walk away â˜¹ï¸


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## milliepops (16 May 2019)

ihatework said:



			Horses all over the country with a shiver are doing far more than happy hacking. If itâ€™s a shiver that is. Not all are equal.

It is more than possible the horse is fit for purpose.
		
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Oh yes for sure. From what OP wrote though it sounded like vet was suspicious that it wasn't just a shiver.


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## oldie48 (16 May 2019)

So sorry, it must be very disappointing but fwiw, I think you did the right thing I'd have walked away. There will be a horse for you out there, keep the faith and keep looking!


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 May 2019)

Just to clarify....
Vet said that the vetting can only tell us the findings in the moment and at the moment she would potentially be fit for purpose, esp as she is already doing the job. BUT it's the more long term implications that concern him. He explained that he couldn't possibly say if/when/how these issues could deteriorate and that's the biggest problem.  It's a big gamble to take in the long run.


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## conniegirl (16 May 2019)

Walk away, tell the seller that she failed the vetting, get your deposit back. If she has another buyer lined up then it shouldn't be a problem.


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## splashgirl45 (16 May 2019)

so sorry SLH, your gut feeling sounds right to me, did the vet actually pass her?  if so that sounds odd if he is worried about the long term implications and her not seeming quite there is a worry. i would get the bloods tested to see if she has been buted up to pass...such a shame but she was cheap for her size and age...


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## Pearlsasinger (16 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			We had already agreed a price, before the vetting, of Â£2200. They have said they have another buyer waiting if I decide I dont want her, to be honest I've not discussed any of this with them in detail yet. I suspect they won't lower the price in any way. I also suspect I may struggle to get a return of my deposit tbh.
The vet does vettings every single day and has said that there is no reason to assume I couldn't by a sane and sound horse for that money judging by the vettings he's been doing, though he was quick to add that none of these will ever set the world on fire talent wise.
Being 100% honest with you all, I've sat and had a discussion with the vet and a friend (a few pathetic tears shed too, partly because she's a lovely mare and partly due to sheer frustration)..and my GUT feeling is that something is definitely not right.
		
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Then walk away.  The vet is right you should be able to find what you are looking for within your budget.  If the other potential buyer wants her, she should get a good home but you won't be the one having to make difficult decisions about her within a few months.  I can't see any reason why you wouldn't get your deposit back.  Vet says that atm she can do the job you want but thinks the neuro problems will be degenerative - why would you want to buy those problems?


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## little_critter (16 May 2019)

I had a vet fail today too. First of all he found something questionable which I would have had to make a call on. Then quickly found something else that was a clear fail so at least I didnâ€™t have to make the decision on the iffy item.
Itâ€™s a bummer but Iâ€™m back trawling through the for sale ads.
Good luck in your search.

Edited to add, if your gut says no, then go with your gut. If you go against it now you will be doubting yourself every time the horse takes an odd step or behaves differently.


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## Marigold4 (16 May 2019)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Then walk away.  The vet is right you should be able to find what you are looking for within your budget.  If the other potential buyer wants her, she should get a good home but you won't be the one having to make difficult decisions about her within a few months.  I can't see any reason why you wouldn't get your deposit back.  Vet says that atm she can do the job you want but thinks the neuro problems will be degenerative - why would you want to buy those problems?
		
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Pearlsasinger said:



			Then walk away.  The vet is right you should be able to find what you are looking for within your budget.  If the other potential buyer wants her, she should get a good home but you won't be the one having to make difficult decisions about her within a few months.  I can't see any reason why you wouldn't get your deposit back.  Vet says that atm she can do the job you want but thinks the neuro problems will be degenerative - why would you want to buy those problems?
		
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## Goldenstar (16 May 2019)

Crap ,
My advice would be donâ€™t do it .
You are entitled to your deposit back .
I would call them and explain keep it polite and say how sorry you are yaadee yaadee and then say please transfer the deposit back to my account .
If they say no just say you will take them straight to the small claims court and do so , they will lose .


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## Marigold4 (16 May 2019)

The photos in the advert showed a horse with an incorrectly muscled neck so other posts of origin of problem in neck may well be right. Last time I bought a horse, two failed vetting. So upsetting. Sorry this hasn't gone well, but don't give up. Your horse is out there. It may just take a long time to find it.


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## ycbm (16 May 2019)

There is no pass or fail in most vettings. The horse has a significant issue and your deposit should be returned and I would be very happy to help you make that happen. PM me if you need assistance.


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## scats (16 May 2019)

Oh what a shame OP, but it definitely sounds like walking away in this instance would be the best thing.


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## Mrs. Jingle (16 May 2019)

Please walk away - this poor horse set alarm bells ringing purely based on its sale picture.  Not being 'quite there' combined with a suggestion of shivers really should have set alarm bells ringing with your vet.  Gobsmacked he has passed it as fit for purpose! :O Out of interest what did you tell the vet you wanted to do with this horse...amble around the lanes or?

so sorry a horrible disappointment for you but there are some super horses out there looking for good homes within the price budget they are asking for this horse that sadly has massive question marks over its health and future prognosis.


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## Orchard14 (16 May 2019)

Trying to catch up on this whole situation having not been involved before! I would personally not touch anything with a neurological issue, not that Iâ€™ve ever experienced it first hand but my friend had a horse with something wrong with the signals passing through his body and he started falling over and once he fell on top of her whilst walking out on a hack. She had him pts pretty soon after that


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## Mahoganybay (16 May 2019)

Iâ€™m so sorry OP, what a bloody shame. 

A good friend of mine bought her gelding 5 years ago, was vetted and told he had shivers, he was perfect in every way for her first horse and we used the vets finding to reduce the asking price to amount she could afford to lose and she took a punt. He is still very much with us, she has a fab time on him, hacking, low level dressage.

I was told by my instructor on my vetting of my mare to say I wanted to do a higher level dressage than I wanted, jump bigger etc, that way then the vets â€˜fit for purposeâ€™ would be of a higher standard than I needed. Donâ€™t know if this is the case or not though.


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## Zero00000 (16 May 2019)

I just had a nose on Facebook and looks like she has been for sale since begin on Feb, she is still for sale for a reason, I'd walk away.


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## Carrottom (16 May 2019)

What a shame, but walk away is the right thing to do. That's what vetting is for. Good luck in your search.


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## Rosiejazzandpia (16 May 2019)

Shes been for sale since February, walk away OP and save your hard earned money and potential heartbreak


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## Rosemary28 (16 May 2019)

Oh Iâ€™m sorry OP, I was really hoping this would be the one for you


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## AdorableAlice (16 May 2019)

Photo 8 of the 9 on the advert told me she would fail the vet.

Even at 11, a big strong scopy jumping mare that is bold and safe will be more than 3k if it is sound.


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## Tihamandturkey (16 May 2019)

Marigold4 said:



			The photos in the advert showed a horse with an incorrectly muscled neck so other posts of origin of problem in neck may well be right. Last time I bought a horse, two failed vetting. So upsetting. Sorry this hasn't gone well, but don't give up. Your horse is out there. It may just take a long time to find it.
		
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The neck really jumped out at me too - so sorry OP ðŸ’


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## hihosilver (16 May 2019)

No real surprise to me. I think you are trying to buy a decent horse with ginger beer money. You are looking to pay far too little for a sound, safe big horse. Preloved is usually full of cheap horses. Sorry you need to up your budget.


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 May 2019)

For those who have seen her on Facebook please could you link me via PM??
As for her neck, I don't know when that pic was taken but it doesn't look like that, it's an odd pic. Vet didn't comment on her neck at all.
I have spoken to the vet again and told him I'm not buying, he was VERY happy with that as he wasn't happy about being unable to give definite answers etc.
I've tried to call and message the seller who is completely ignoring me


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## Hormonal Filly (16 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			For those who have seen her on Facebook please could you link me via PM??
As for her neck, I don't know when that pic was taken but it doesn't look like that, it's an odd pic. Vet didn't comment on her neck at all.
I have spoken to the vet again and told him I'm not buying, he was VERY happy with that as he wasn't happy about being unable to give definite answers etc.
I've tried to call and message the seller who is completely ignoring me  

Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s concerning.. maybe they were aware and trying to hide it, hoping sheâ€™d pass? You never know? 

Will get back on those adverts tomorrow!


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 May 2019)

hihosilver said:



			No real surprise to me. I think you are trying to buy a decent horse with ginger beer money. You are looking to pay far too little for a sound, safe big horse. Preloved is usually full of cheap horses. Sorry you need to up your budget.
		
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It may be the curse of the written word but your message is extremely condescending to say the least and, quite frankly, rude. 
I'm trying to buy the very best I can on the little money I have, not everyone has 6,7,8k and so on to spend unfortunately. If I could spend much more then I would obviously do so.
I now have to save up for the next vetting.


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## AdorableAlice (16 May 2019)

It is so difficult to find something that ticks all the boxes. Keep looking and good luck.


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## hihosilver (16 May 2019)

I am being realistic- once upon a time you could have gone to Southall market and take a risk and get a lovely horse. Things have changed. Could you not save up and wait so you can have at least a bit more chance of finding a safe horse. Buying a horse is a lottery.


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## AdorableAlice (16 May 2019)

17HH CLEVELAND BAY X TB
Ref #: 209153
Horse quest happy hacker section


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 May 2019)

I'm saving every last penny I have. I'm trying not to rush but unfortunately I don't have tons of spare cash to save. I'm still paying my field rent as per my contract and saving everything else. Realistically 3k is the most I'm going to have and that's just taken a dent if I dont get my deposit back. I had enough separately for a vetting and transport so will now have to replace the vetting money. I realise that it would be naive to think the first horse would pass etc but I can only do what I'm doing


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 May 2019)

Thoughts on this one?? On Horsequest

*FUN AND UNSUAL RIDDEN HORSE*
TRINITY ARABELLA
Ref #: 209111


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## Remi'sMum (16 May 2019)

So sorry SLH, you must be gutted. I totally feel your pain - it took me 6 months, 33 horses viewed and 3 failed vettings to find my boy. Iâ€™m so glad youâ€™ve gone with your gut feeling though. Sending hugs xxx


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## Caol Ila (16 May 2019)

I really like the Suffolk Punch mare.


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 May 2019)

Me too, though she's insanely cheap??


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## siennamiller (16 May 2019)

Really sorry about that SLH. 
As Iâ€™ve already said on a previous post, you can find what youâ€™re looking for. My mare was less than half your budget, a bit of reschooling, and we did bs up to 1m, Be80, and hunger trials up to 1m.
She was utterly bombproof out hacking, and a lovely person too.


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## Hollychops (16 May 2019)

So sorry it didnt work out. I lost my mare to ataxia and it was heart wrenching to see her go from an active horse to one that some days would stand on her own hooves and hit the wall as she walked round the box. You did the right thing in walking away.


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## Leo Walker (16 May 2019)

I love her and if my life wasnt such a mess right now I'd have been on the phone about her. A quick google shows her out doing everything the ad claims and at 1k I'd take a punt


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## Caol Ila (16 May 2019)

Aye, she's insanely cheap but that may be due to her having a long lay-off, which they said she had.  Or something worse...  But horse is worth a look.


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## Zero00000 (16 May 2019)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1008062002737532&id=100006012244885


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## AdorableAlice (16 May 2019)

The Suffolk will need careful weight management in summer, a large stable, an insane amount of hay in winter and a set of shoes will be Â£150 every 5 weeks.  The fencing will need to be excellent too, a draft horse on a diet has scant regard for fencing.  The advert also clearly states not a novice ride.  There are many variables in the meaning of that !


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## splashgirl45 (16 May 2019)

AdorableAlice said:



			17HH CLEVELAND BAY X TB
Ref #: 209153
Horse quest happy hacker section
		
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he looks just right to me....


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## Pearlsasinger (16 May 2019)

hihosilver said:



			I am being realistic- once upon a time you could have gone to Southall market and take a risk and get a lovely horse. Things have changed. Could you not save up and wait so you can have at least a bit more chance of finding a safe horse. Buying a horse is a lottery.
		
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Since the vet who did the vetting has told OP that he sees plenty of sound horses fit tfor the purpose that she requires for her budget, I should imagine that she will find one before too long.  You have to know where to look.


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## Leo Walker (16 May 2019)

AdorableAlice said:



			The Suffolk will need careful weight management in summer, a large stable, an insane amount of hay in winter and a set of shoes will be Â£150 every 5 weeks.  The fencing will need to be excellent too, a draft horse on a diet has scant regard for fencing.  The advert also clearly states not a novice ride.  There are many variables in the meaning of that !
		
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She was bought as a 3yr old by and has been ridden by a novice husband, so I wouldnt be too worried about that


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## Pearlsasinger (16 May 2019)

AdorableAlice said:



			The Suffolk will need careful weight management in summer, a large stable, an insane amount of hay in winter and a set of shoes will be Â£150 every 5 weeks.  The fencing will need to be excellent too, a draft horse on a diet has scant regard for fencing.  The advert also clearly states not a novice ride.  There are many variables in the meaning of that !
		
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I have had 2 Clydesdales, a Shire and a Westphalian Kaltblut, they have all respected electric fencing as much as any other horse, in fact the cob is more of a pain because she knows that her mane will insulate her from it.  Admittedly anything that they can rub on needs to be very sturdy, we have a special heavy duty stable.  None of them needed any special feeding except the Westphalian who was obese when I bought her, I fed her on plain oat straw chaff until she reached the weight I wanted.  I certainly have never paid Â£150 for a set of shoes and none of them was ever shod more frequently than every 6 weeks, 3 of them went barefoot, 2 of them had never worn shoes.
I agree that not novice ride can mean a lot of different things, it could just be that she is very strong but equally if something that size starts to perform airs above the ground freestyle, you would know about it.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

This ^^^^^ I've never had a heavy that needed shoes, or needed extra weight management. 
All a moot point as she's been sold


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## OrangeAndLemon (17 May 2019)

AdorableAlice said:



			The Suffolk will need careful weight management in summer, a large stable, an insane amount of hay in winter and a set of shoes will be Â£150 every 5 weeks.  The fencing will need to be excellent too, a draft horse on a diet has scant regard for fencing.  The advert also clearly states not a novice ride.  There are many variables in the meaning of that !
		
Click to expand...

My Suffolk is fine in a normal size stable and despite a grazing muzzle, still respects electric fences. He has occasionally made regular fencing a little less secure when reaching to be fussed by a small child. I'm in Cheshire so farriers are expensive, Â£70 for fronts every 6 to 8 weeks (8 in winter, 6 in summer). Many Suffolks are barefoot but mine is a bit sensitive. He does need more hay because he's bigger. He's also very intelligent and escapes his stable for fun by undoing all of the bolts.

The only downside is that you will need to consider putting her in foal. With less than 100 breeding females worldwide you can't ignore it.

Oh, and the amazing community of other Suffolk owners.

So sorry OP but I agree, you're right to go with your gut. I'm not sure how far you can travel but there's a dealer called Right Rides which I think is North Wales. A lot of friends have bought very good horses from them, in your budget.


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## PoppyAnderson (17 May 2019)

Cng have a big shire in at the mo. You probably know already! She's advertised at Â£4k but worth asking if there's a deal to be done.


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## PoppyAnderson (17 May 2019)

208796 on horse quest.


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## PoppyAnderson (17 May 2019)

This one.


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## PoppyAnderson (17 May 2019)

This, depending on what the no novices comment means. Closer to home too.


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## Orchard14 (17 May 2019)

I have no idea what your requirements are but I have fallen for that Suffolk mare she sounds and looks magnificent. Suffolks are so, so rare I imagine it would be really special to have one. But I totally agree with OrangeandLemon, I wonder what happened with her foaling and why they wouldn't sell her as a broodmare but it almost seems like a national responsibility to put Suffolk mares in foal because there are so few of them going around.


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## Bernster (17 May 2019)

Sorry to read that SLH but with most of hho behind you and scouting for something, I reckon youâ€™ll find one soon enough!

Iâ€™d def contact janetgeorge if you havenâ€™t already - getting a horse from someone you â€˜knowâ€™ would I think give you much more peace of mind.


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## Fluffypiglet (17 May 2019)

Sorry she failed the vetting SLH and I agree you are right to walk away. Good luck with the future search, we're all here with you!! The right one is out there... ðŸ¤ž


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## Hollychops (17 May 2019)

Horsequest ad 208932 looks like a nice horse for you SLH: http://www.horsequest.co.uk/advertisment/208932


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## conniegirl (17 May 2019)

hihosilver said:



			I am being realistic- once upon a time you could have gone to Southall market and take a risk and get a lovely horse. Things have changed. Could you not save up and wait so you can have at least a bit more chance of finding a safe horse. Buying a horse is a lottery.
		
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No you are not, you are being condescending and rude. 

OP can get what she wants in her budget, you don't need Â£6k+ to buy a big safe happy hacker without neurological issues.


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## be positive (17 May 2019)

conniegirl said:



			No you are not, you are being condescending and rude.

OP can get what she wants in her budget, you don't need Â£6k+ to buy a big safe happy hacker without neurological issues.
		
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It will probably just take a bit longer to find, require the OP to be really on the ball with looking through and weeding out the ads once you read between the lines, it may possibly mean a few vet failures along the way but it will be out there, buying any horse at any price is a lottery in my experience.


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## Ddraig_wen (17 May 2019)

what about her?    I know the owner would take an offer for a good home

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/...=/search?keyword=irish+draught&sectionId=2188


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## Floxie (17 May 2019)

HollyChops said:



			Horsequest ad 208932 looks like a nice horse for you SLH: http://www.horsequest.co.uk/advertisment/208932

Click to expand...

I rather like him! I think I'd buy something like this after I win the lottery, though, then I can pay someone else to keep him white 



Ddraig_wen said:



			what about her?    I know the owner would take an offer for a good home

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/118974311/registered-partbred-irish-draught-open-to-sensible-offer.html?link=/search?keyword=irish+draught&sectionId=2188

Click to expand...

Ooooh she is lovely!


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## SpringArising (17 May 2019)

Sorry the vetting failed SHL. But always go with your gut feeling.

It is amusing how some people suddenly already knew XYZ _after_ they're presented with the facts...


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

Thank you lots for all of the horse links. Currently I'm going to have to get back to where I was financially for the horse. I have to get money for another vetting (that will be in a week or so) and claw back the deposit. So I'm not going to have my full quota of cash for a little while. 
The seller has stated that the deposit was to hold the horse irrelevant of the vetting and I failed to ask for more precise wording on the receipt which is my own fault. What concerns me is that the seller is stating on the ad that the horse has no health issues when she now knows damn well that she does.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

SpringArising said:



			Sorry the vetting failed SHL. But always go with your gut feeling.

It is amusing how some people suddenly already knew XYZ _after_ they're presented with the facts...
		
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Yes this, would be fantastic if these people could voice their concerns before the event. 
Ho hum, onwards and upwards. If nothing else this horse hunting is teaching me alot about what bloody arseholes people are when dealing with living, breathing creatures. It breaks my heart how dishonest some people can be knowing full well the animal may suffer


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## Hormonal Filly (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Thank you lots for all of the horse links. Currently I'm going to have to get back to where I was financially for the horse. I have to get money for another vetting (that will be in a week or so) and claw back the deposit. So I'm not going to have my full quota of cash for a little while.
The seller has stated that the deposit was to hold the horse irrelevant of the vetting and I failed to ask for more precise wording on the receipt which is my own fault. What concerns me is that the seller is stating on the ad that the horse has no health issues when she now knows damn well that she does.
		
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Very dodgy, obviously its all about the money as anyone honest would disclose the failed vetting, or issued that were picked up. Were they a dealer? Well done for vetting, shame about the expense but sad for the horse but glad you didn't end up with that one. Sounds like a good vet to be so detailed in his vetting..

There is no rush, the ideal horse will come up soon I'm sure. 'everything happens for a reason' as I keep telling myself too!


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## WandaMare (17 May 2019)

I don't know how the seller can justify holding on to the deposit, it just doesn't feel right. I just couldn't do that someone knowing full well that the deposit plus the cost of the vetting is going to set them back a lot of money and probably delay their horse search. I don't think it is your fault, just because the receipt wasn't worded in a particular way doesn't make it morally ok, some people are just mean.

I hope the next stage of your horse search goes more smoothly, it must be very frustrating.


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## Horsecrazy721 (17 May 2019)

Surely you deserve your deposit back if said horse failed the vetting? Ad said no health issues, clearly there is so seller either lied or was unaware. I thought that was the hole point of a vetting and deposit, if horse fails your deposit is returned or even part of it. 

Can anyone on here help you get it back?


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## JFTDWS (17 May 2019)

Utter tripe from the dealer.  You must chase them for the deposit.

Next time, don't tempt fate with your thread title


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## Hormonal Filly (17 May 2019)

Horses advert

They edited the add 6 hours ago. It still says ' She has no health issues what so ever and has a lovely personality and deserves the best home' clearly she does have health issues and they're now aware. Have they added the phrase 'PLEASE NO MORE TIMEWASTERS' or is it just me? If they think that they're beyond dumb, wouldn't call someone who spends money on a vetting.. for said horse to fail on something quite major, a time waster?


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## Goldenstar (17 May 2019)

Just start the process of taking them to the small claims court .


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

I will take them to small claims I think, nothing more to lose I guess. It isn't a dealer but the same rules apply I think??


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## Amymay (17 May 2019)

What does your receipt say?

Make sure you get the report from the vet.


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## Goldenstar (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I will take them to small claims I think, nothing more to lose I guess. It isn't a dealer but the same rules apply I think??
		
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Yes , itâ€™s an online process now I think .
Just crack on and do it .


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## Myloubylou (17 May 2019)

Sorry to hear horse failed and what a pain they are being awkward about returning deposit.  Unless they can prove they have lost a sale by turning people away then the ought to refund as you have not just changed your mind.  Although buyer beware applies, the sellers have to disclose if asked I thought?  Make sure you add these in list of questions.


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## ester (17 May 2019)

I'd strongly suspect that she has a previous failed vetting behind her.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

They are now saying they had a vet out to her this morning and that his flexion tests were perfect and the only thing wrong was she needed a little topline..!!!!
This is what my vet wrote (bearing mind that he explained that there would need to be further investigation for the cause and he suspected it was neurological):
1) Small scar mid lower right eyelid.
2) 'Splint' inside lower left fore cannon region.
3) Superficial but suspect aged scars all four lower limbs.
4) Keratinised scar inside right hind fetlock.
5) Repeated pain on frog pressure left hind foot.
6) Repeated resentment to raising/ flexing each hind limb and horse keen to replace foot from elevated position ( left more overt than right)
7) Upper left hind limb under-muscled compared to right.
8) Transient positive response to dynamic flexion test of right fore limb and right hind limb.
9) Horse circumvents left hindlimb at walk / trot on firm surface.
10) Hypermetric gait - left hind limb - either rein on lunge at trot.
11) Evidence of fly bites inside each pinna.


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## Caol Ila (17 May 2019)

The sellers sound well dodgy.  A genuine seller would surely understand why someone would choose to not buy their horse after a vetting like that.


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## milliepops (17 May 2019)

well there's vets and vets, first of all, and secondly you were the client of your vet (not their vet), who they consented to come and assess the horse, and your vet had multiple findings. Whatever they do subsequently is kind of irrelevant IMO?


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## MotherOfChickens (17 May 2019)

milliepops said:



			well there's vets and vets, first of all, and secondly you were the client of your vet (not their vet), who they consented to come and assess the horse, and your vet had multiple findings. Whatever they do subsequently is kind of irrelevant IMO?
		
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^^this-they are at it SLH, I expect you'll probably get your deposit back once you start proceedings and they realise you are serious. 
Sorry the process has been a bit shit, its horrible when you get instantly attached and start thinking about your future together-been there, done that! but its for the best, onwards and upwards.


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## Goldenstar (17 May 2019)

It matters not a jot what their vet says and i seriously doubt they have paid the vet for a five stage vetting.
Screen shot all your texts I would write to them saying to require the return of your deposit by such and such a date or you will immediately raise a case in the small claims court send the letter tracked mail and text them as well to say the letter is on the way to them tracked post and it says I require return of my deposit by X etc etc 
Then just start the procedure straight away if you donâ€™t get your money .
You may need to speak to your vet and ask him if he will express his view in layman speak to summit with the claim .
Just do it .
People like this litter the horse world and you need to stand up to them .


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## Fluffypiglet (17 May 2019)

It's bad enough with the disappointment of the failed vetting on what appeared to be a lovely horse without the sellers being unreasonable. Sorry you're having to go through this SLH. Hopefully they will start behaving like nice normal human beings... Good luck.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

The seller has been reading this thread and now threatened legal action for slander. I have explained it would be libel and only then if what was said was untrue.
I'm hoping they will join and have their say 
Interesting bu, as if by magic, the ad has been removed.


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## Amymay (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			The seller has been reading this thread and now threatened legal action for slander. I have explained it would be libel and only then if what was said was untrue.
I'm hoping they will join and have their say 

Click to expand...

Iâ€™m interested in what the deposit receipt said, because clearly deposits are left on the understanding of a clean bill of health subsequent to a vetting.  Sadly itâ€™s not unheard of for some less scrupulous people to view them as a way to make a quick buck.

Very sad that the vetting was unsuccessful, however the sellers can either be comfortable in their own vets new 5 stage vetting which gives a clean bill of health, or be concerned enough about your vets findings to investigate ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‰

Itâ€™s very sad as she sounded like a fab horse.  But, thatâ€™s horses for you ...


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## bubsqueaks (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			They are now saying they had a vet out to her this morning and that his flexion tests were perfect and the only thing wrong was she needed a little topline..!!!!
This is what my vet wrote (bearing mind that he explained that there would need to be further investigation for the cause and he suspected it was neurological):
1) Small scar mid lower right eyelid.
2) 'Splint' inside lower left fore cannon region.
3) Superficial but suspect aged scars all four lower limbs.
4) Keratinised scar inside right hind fetlock.
5) Repeated pain on frog pressure left hind foot.
6) Repeated resentment to raising/ flexing each hind limb and horse keen to replace foot from elevated position ( left more overt than right)
7) Upper left hind limb under-muscled compared to right.
8) Transient positive response to dynamic flexion test of right fore limb and right hind limb.
9) Horse circumvents left hindlimb at walk / trot on firm surface.
10) Hypermetric gait - left hind limb - either rein on lunge at trot.
11) Evidence of fly bites inside each pinna.
		
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Thats quite a list with a few quite questionable for concern.
Well done for sense reigning, as hard as it is there are so many horses out there I think you were absolutely right to walk away.
Good luck with your continued search.
I would also pursue for your deposit money as I would have thought its a non verbal agreement that it would be subject to vetting.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

The receipt simply said it was a deposit for the horse and the rest would be paid on collection. I did "the deal" with sellers father who told me I was daft wasting money on a vetting as there was nothing wrong with the horse. My friend and I both stated to the seller and father that completion of purchase was subject to vet.
We didn't do the full 5 stage, just as far as a 2 stage because it didn't seem worth proceeding with a ridden assessment, the vet and I felt there was enough at this point to place a question mark over her long term soundness. This is why he clearly stated to me that she could potentially do the job now but he had concerns for her future and that it would be a big gamble. The seller stated that the horse had been scared by a farrier in the past and that's why she was iffy with her Hinds BUT that doesn't explain the hypermetric gait etc and flexion test issue.
I know the seller will be reading all of this and I'm more than happy that I'm being completely truthful plus I have the vet as witness.


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## Amymay (17 May 2019)

I think new poster Badge1 may be the seller.


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## ihatework (17 May 2019)

IME deposits are usually one of two types, a small amount (~Â£100) to hold the horse for a vetting and not sell to someone else, this is usually non refundable.

Or ~10% of purchase price subject to vetting.

The latter can be a grey area, as you have found out. There are often subjective notes in a vetting that are not clear cut.

I think you were pretty naive to put down a deposit without some clear paperwork to support the terms of the deposit! As you have written above, a less than forthcoming seller could argue to not refund.

That said, despite my rather relaxed attitude towards a mild shiver for a hacking horse, it is a significant enough vet finding to support a withdrawal from sale and one would hope any honest seller would accept that and refund.


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## Pearlsasinger (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			This ^^^^^ I've never had a heavy that needed shoes, or needed extra weight management.
All a moot point as she's been sold 

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That's a shame but there will be others!


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## SpringArising (17 May 2019)

No real consolation, but in situations like these I find comfort in knowing that at least I'm a decent person who would do the right thing (i.e. return the deposit) when push comes to shove.

I had someone come to view a horse once and it was Sod's law she rocked up and my horse was lame on the lunge. I felt really bad for her and would never have dreamed of keeping her deposit.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

The deposit was Â£200.


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## Pearlsasinger (17 May 2019)

You had booked the vet for a 5 stage vetting, as witnessed on here and he stopped at stage 2 because he had already found problems/concerns, yet the vendor want to keep your deposit.  I am sure you will get it back through the Small Claims court if you need to take it so far. Vendor also told you there was another buyer interested, so hasn't lost anything by waiting for your vet.


ETA, did you contact JanetGeorge?


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## bonny (17 May 2019)

Pearlsasinger said:



			You had booked the vet for a 5 stage vetting, as witnessed on here and he stopped at stage 2 because he had already found problems/concerns, yet the vendor want to keep your deposit.  I am sure you will get it back through the Small Claims court if you need to take it so far. Vendor also told you there was another buyer interested, so hasn't lost anything by waiting for your vet.


ETA, did you contact JanetGeorge?
		
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Did the vet stop at stage 2 ? I thought he found her fit for purpose but with concerns about the future ? Ignore me, Iâ€™ve just read they did stop at stage 2 !


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## ycbm (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			The seller has been reading this thread and now threatened legal action for slander. I have explained it would be libel and only then if what was said was untrue.
I'm hoping they will join and have their say 
Interesting bu, as if by magic, the ad has been removed.
		
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WOW. I'd like to see them try!

Small claim will cost you Â£25 to start it, which you will get back when you win unless your receipt says non refundable on it. You can raise it now online. Crack on!


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## Goldenstar (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			The seller has been reading this thread and now threatened legal action for slander. I have explained it would be libel and only then if what was said was untrue.
I'm hoping they will join and have their say 
Interesting bu, as if by magic, the ad has been removed.
		
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All they have to do is return your money then all this will go away .


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## ester (17 May 2019)

bonny said:



			Did the vet stop at stage 2 ? I thought he found her fit for purpose but with concerns about the future ? Ignore me, Iâ€™ve just read they did stop at stage 2 !
		
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certainly puts a different spin on it for me


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## Hormonal Filly (17 May 2019)

amymay said:



			I think new poster Badge1 may be the seller.
		
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How can you tell, have they posted?

Really hope you get your deposit back SLH, hopefully now they've read the forum they'll come to a arrangement.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

The seller has messaged me and would like me to state (again) that the vet effectively did not FAIL her. As I have said, he stated she would be fit for purpose in the SHORT TERM and had extreme doubts about her long term soundness  particularly as she is NOT sound now. His advice was to "proceed with extreme caution ". He also stated later on that day over the phone that he had discussed with another vet who had a different opinion on the "fit for purpose ".
Having just spoken to someone who knows more about the legal side of things they have said the seller made a mistake by stating in the ad that she HAS NO HEALTH ISSUES. If they had stated no KNOWN health issues they'd have been better off. It could be claimed that there was "intention to decieve".


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## ycbm (17 May 2019)

Give the money back, if you are reading this, seller.  It's not SLH's fault that you tried to sell a  horse with issues, whether you knew about them or not,  and she needs that money to buy a horse which doesn't have the vetting stopped for neurological issues. 

It's only fair, she has already lost the same amount on the vetting that she has to pay for, so all you are doing is going halves on the loss. 

Legally, you don't have a leg to stand on because you cannot now complete your side of the bargain by supplying a horse which has no health issues, which is what you advertised.

No decent seller ever withholds the deposit on a vet failure.

.


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## ycbm (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			The seller has messaged me and would like me to state (again) that the vet effectively did not FAIL her. As I have said, he stated she would be fit for purpose in the SHORT TERM and had extreme doubts about her long term soundness  particularly as she is NOT sound now. His advice was to "proceed with extreme caution ". He also stated later on that day over the phone that he had discussed with another vet who had a different opinion on the "fit for purpose ".
Having just spoken to someone who knows more about the legal side of things they have said the seller made a mistake by stating in the ad that she HAS NO HEALTH ISSUES. If they had stated no KNOWN health issues they'd have been better off. It could be claimed that there was "intention to decieve".
		
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Vets rarely fail or pass, they give the client the information to make a judgement and the client decides  if that's a pass or fail for them.

Having said that, a booked five stage stopped at two stage would, in most people's eyes, most definitely be classed as a failure.


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## Pearlsasinger (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			The seller has messaged me and would like me to state (again) that the vet effectively did not FAIL her. As I have said, he stated she would be fit for purpose in the SHORT TERM and had extreme doubts about her long term soundness  particularly as she is NOT sound now. His advice was to "proceed with extreme caution ". He also stated later on that day over the phone that he had discussed with another vet who had a different opinion on the "fit for purpose ".
Having just spoken to someone who knows more about the legal side of things they have said the seller made a mistake by stating in the ad that she HAS NO HEALTH ISSUES. If they had stated no KNOWN health issues they'd have been better off. It could be claimed that there was "intention to decieve".
		
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However the vet did stop the vetting at Stage 2, rather than continuing the 5 stage, didn't he?


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## Leo Walker (17 May 2019)

If I didnt have the deposit in my hand by close of business today and that ad wasnt changed to reflect the truth I would go nuclear with this. That ad, the sellers name and full details of the failed vetting would be spread on every online platform I could find. The sellers would also find themselves on every dodgy dealer page going as well. I have nothing but time on my hands if you would like a hand doing that. 

And I would dearly love them to sue me for slander or indeed libel. You need deep pockets to do that, oh and the person you are suing has to be lying, which you are not.

I wonder how many times this mare has been vetted and failed since February? At Â£200 a time and having agreed to sell her for Â£2200 then it only takes 11 times and they have made the purchase price and still have the horse. Nice littler earner for all involved!


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## Hormonal Filly (17 May 2019)

@SatansLittleHelper Change of subject, sorry! Just noticed this advert while having a browse.. he seems a lovely type, and about a hour away from you I calculated? Either been 'updated' or 'added' within the last day as only was viewing recent adverts.

https://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horseforsale-133240.html  Hes a nice size and has a 'kind eye' as they say.. don't know anything about the dealer mind (assume its a dealer)


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## bonny (17 May 2019)

ForbiddenHorse said:



@SatansLittleHelper Change of subject, sorry! Just noticed this advert while having a browse.. he seems a lovely type, and about a hour away from you I calculated? Either been 'updated' or 'added' within the last day as only was viewing recent adverts.

https://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horseforsale-133240.html  Hes a nice size and has a 'kind eye' as they say.. don't know anything about the dealer mind (assume its a dealer)
		
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They seem to have reduced the price by Â£25, that will do the trick !


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## Hormonal Filly (17 May 2019)

bonny said:



			They seem to have reduced the price by Â£25, that will do the trick !
		
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Lol.. didn't notice that! Can only assume its to bump the advert up.. bit pointless to reduce by Â£25 unless any other reason. He has a few on Facebook for sale that look genuine horses, Connies etc but can never tell!


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

I'd like to just ad that the stage change in vetting was simply watching the horse being lunge and the vet and I both decided we didn't need to go ahead with the ridden stuff. The vet has been amazing to be fair.
There was no "might" on needing further investigations,  he said the issues WOULD need them.


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## splashgirl45 (17 May 2019)

ForbiddenHorse said:



@SatansLittleHelper Change of subject, sorry! Just noticed this advert while having a browse.. he seems a lovely type, and about a hour away from you I calculated? Either been 'updated' or 'added' within the last day as only was viewing recent adverts.

https://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horseforsale-133240.html  Hes a nice size and has a 'kind eye' as they say.. don't know anything about the dealer mind (assume its a dealer)
		
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i had seen his ad on pets4homes some time ago and thought he seemed a bit too good to be true, the ad went a bit overboard on saying vetting blood testing etc all ok to be done..and SLH had already arranged a viewing of a horse so didnt mention him....the ad was for Â£3000 and expired on 18th may so been on there for quite a while....i do like the look of him for SLH and if the ad is truthful he would be perfect...


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

I have sent the seller my bank details and requested a refund by 8pm or I will start with the small claims court.
Just checked receipt and it does NOT state its non refundable
I will go ahead with this, it's the principle as well as the money now.


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## SpringArising (17 May 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			I wonder how many times this mare has been vetted and failed since February? At Â£200 a time and having agreed to sell her for Â£2200 then it only takes 11 times and they have made the purchase price and still have the horse. Nice littler earner for all involved!
		
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That's exactly the route I think they're taking with this.


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## SpringArising (17 May 2019)

ForbiddenHorse said:



@SatansLittleHelper Change of subject, sorry! Just noticed this advert while having a browse.. he seems a lovely type, and about a hour away from you I calculated? Either been 'updated' or 'added' within the last day as only was viewing recent adverts.

https://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horseforsale-133240.html  Hes a nice size and has a 'kind eye' as they say.. don't know anything about the dealer mind (assume its a dealer)
		
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That's a gorgeous looking horse who is very well put together too. I'm extremely suspicious of the price - that horse would sell for 7k if he's what they're saying.


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## Hormonal Filly (17 May 2019)

SpringArising said:



			That's a gorgeous looking horse who is very well put together too. I'm extremely suspicious of the price - that horse would sell for 7k if he's what they're saying.
		
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True, the dealer also has a Connie for sale for the same price region. 14.2 8yr old, perfect in every way according to add that he posted on Facebook yesterday and hes had hundreds of comments on it. He also sounds very cheap for what he is.. mmm, Link to his add
Proceed with caution but just noticed what a lovely kind eye he had.

I did notice he put adverts up seeking horses/ponies to buy at dealer prices, yet haven't found anything bad so far but not on 'dodgy dealers' group so can't say for sure. If he does have something underling, why write 5* vetting, xray.. do they think you won't notice?


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## AdorableAlice (17 May 2019)

SpringArising said:



			That's a gorgeous looking horse who is very well put together too. I'm extremely suspicious of the price - that horse would sell for 7k if he's what they're saying.
		
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forelimb pastern angle.


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## SpringArising (17 May 2019)

AdorableAlice said:



			forelimb pastern angle.
		
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Low possibly. Loath to make a judgement given he's standing in long grass. Either way, not something that would concern me.

Nice shoulder, well set on neck - if not a little short -, strong back and nice hind limbs. 

I reckon the dealer's name is so muddy he has to flog everything dirt cheap, or the horse is a dud in some way.


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## eggs (17 May 2019)

Not too keen on the way he is standing camped out in the first photo.


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## TPO (17 May 2019)

SLH you are clearly not a timewaster, you paid for a vet to come up and you were there for the vetting. It's not your fault that the horse is not fit for purpose you wanted to buy it!!! 

If the seller is reading this and still not returning your money then they are a thief. They know you were not a timewaster and they now know the horse is not fit for purpose and has underlying health issues. Small claims will sort it in no time and then I'd make sure everyone knew not to deal with a seller who attempts to steal money by keeping what is not theirs to keep. Disgusting behaviour!!


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## Fransurrey (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			The seller has messaged me and would like me to state (again) that the vet effectively did not FAIL her. As I have said, he stated she would be fit for purpose in the SHORT TERM and had extreme doubts about her long term soundness  particularly as she is NOT sound now. His advice was to "proceed with extreme caution ". He also stated later on that day over the phone that he had discussed with another vet who had a different opinion on the "fit for purpose ".
Having just spoken to someone who knows more about the legal side of things they have said the seller made a mistake by stating in the ad that she HAS NO HEALTH ISSUES. If they had stated no KNOWN health issues they'd have been better off. It could be claimed that there was "intention to decieve".
		
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A vetting doesn't actually have a 'pass' or 'fail', as others have said. If the vet said she was unsound now (for WHATEVER reason) and advised not to proceed further with the next 3 stages, then it is what is known as a fail, even if not in black and white. On the report it will say that the condition of the horse presented does or does not compromise suitability for purpose (or words to that effect) for "insert activity here".  Good luck with the deposit - I think you're right to pursue this.


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2019)

Ridden Clydesdale mare. https://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horseforsale-133720.html


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## Goldenstar (17 May 2019)

AdorableAlice said:



			forelimb pastern angle.
		
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eggs said:



			Not too keen on the way he is standing camped out in the first photo.
		
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I agree with both of these comments .
Heâ€™s nice but .............thatâ€™s two issues before you have even made the phone call .
I also think heâ€™s a bit small for SLH


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

Guys has someone posted on Facebook about this horse as I'm now getting a load of backlash from the seller..????
She's saying I'll get my deposit if I delete this thread and FB posts. I know NOTHING about any FB posts..??!!


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## rowan666 (17 May 2019)

What a mess! I feel so sorry for you SLH, it's such a shame you've had all these issues when all you seek is a sensible and sound, happy hacker type (please correct me if I'm wrong but that's the impression I get) I really hope you get your deposit back, I can't believe the sellers are being so awkward and downright nasty! She looked like a lovely mare and I'm sure she is but having read your vets report i suspect if I were (and I would never) sell my Arab X that the report would be reading very similar (bar sore frogs and uneven muscle because his muscle as he is equally bad on both sides of his back end) but as owners we should all be aware of our horses short comings, I wouldn't market mine above 1.2k max (expecting to be haggled down) he's a fabulous happy hacker, bomproof on roads and tries his heart out but im realistic on price! They should apologetically return your deposit and market/offer you the horse at a more realistic price. 
Good luck in your search and I look forward to seeing your thread on the perfect horse for you, vetting passed and making all this heartache worth it xx


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## TPO (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Guys has someone posted on Facebook about this horse as I'm now getting a load of backlash from the seller..????
She's saying I'll get my deposit if I delete this thread and FB posts. I know NOTHING about any FB posts..??!!
		
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She is in the wrong withholding your money that she is not legally entitled to. She doesn't get to make the demands. 

Once the money is refunded then you get this thread deleted. She has already proven that she is not trustworthy.


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## JFTDWS (17 May 2019)

Well it's not up to the seller to make those sort of demands.  It's not in their jurisdiction.  You'll get your money back through small claims court, regardless of their nonsense.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

TPO said:



			She is in the wrong withholding your money that she is not legally entitled to. She doesn't get to make the demands.

Once the money is refunded then you get this thread deleted. She has already proven that she is not trustworthy.
		
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I dont even think it can be deleted can it?
Why I'm getting all this absolute crap when I've done nothing wrong I dont know. So very tired of it all.
I'm not thrilled at effectively being blackmailed either, not impressed..!!!!


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## JFTDWS (17 May 2019)

No you can't delete the thread.  Admin *could* but whether they choose to or not is entirely up to them, and frankly I don't think they should capitulate to the demands of this seller, who is definitely doing a very good job of putting themselves wholeheartedly in the wrong!


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## TPO (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I dont even think it can be deleted can it?
Why I'm getting all this absolute crap when I've done nothing wrong I dont know. So very tired of it all.
I'm not thrilled at effectively being blackmailed either, not impressed..!!!!
		
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No idea, you'd have to contact site admin.

Just ignore her going forward. Block her number and on whatever platforms that she is using to contact you. She has your bank details to return your money and that is all she needs to do now. If the money isnt in your account by 8pm as stated just start small claims procedure. 

It's your money and she is stealing by not returning it. You dont need any further contact from her and she'll hear via the legal route shortly if she doesn't return your money


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## Caol Ila (17 May 2019)

What JFTD said.  

You could ask to see the posts on Facebook but you should not capitulate to their demands.

The moment a seller told me that I was "daft" to get the horse vet checked, I would have run away.  Or I'd like to think so.  Probably not if I really liked the horse, but it's a huge red flag.   Conscientious sellers know many buyers do pre-purchase exams.  It's pretty standard.


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## Amymay (17 May 2019)

Advert seems to have been taken down.  Hopefully this means that theyâ€™ve taken note of yesterdayâ€™s vetting (rather than todayâ€™s) and are making arrangements to investigate further.

No idea where on FB anything may have been posted, but obviously any kind of attempted blackmail is rather underhand (sound familiar?ðŸ˜), and does not reflect well on the seller.

Why do people have to make a drama out of everything??? ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜ðŸ˜†ðŸ˜


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

I'm honestly not trying to make a drama out of it. I just want the deposit back and for the hassle over. Never thought buying a horse could ever be this much trouble


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## JFTDWS (17 May 2019)

I don't think amymay meant you're causing drama, SLH!


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## ycbm (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I dont even think it can be deleted can it?
Why I'm getting all this absolute crap when I've done nothing wrong I dont know. So very tired of it all.
I'm not thrilled at effectively being blackmailed either, not impressed..!!!!
		
Click to expand...


I am sure you could get admin to take the thread down if you explain how much grief you are getting from the seller, but I wouldn't ask them to do it until the deposit is in your account.

Seller, pay up!


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## Amymay (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I'm honestly not trying to make a drama out of it. I just want the deposit back and for the hassle over. Never thought buying a horse could ever be this much trouble 

Click to expand...

Not you, love, the seller xxxx


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## Pearlsasinger (17 May 2019)

I would leave the thread exactly where it is, as a warning to other dodgy advertisers that HHO is far-reaching and pretty much all-seeing.  Block the seller from having any further contact with you except through your bank.  All that should happen now is that your deposit is returned as per the law.


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## Mrs. Jingle (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Yes this, would be fantastic if these people could voice their concerns before the event
		
Click to expand...

Horrible thing you are going through OP, but if the dealer ( and they are a dealer dont give a rat's arse if they are trying to claim this is a private sale!)  has even one brain cell they will refund your money PDQ or they will be the losers long term not you.  

In response to your quote above, I was one of those who really did not like what I saw on the ad in your original post and alarm bells rang - loudly! Since the vet fail I have voiced that opinion but not before. Why? this is H&H you were being inundated with lots of 'oohing' and 'aahing' when you posted your initial intention to very possibly buy, with this horse and the advert that attracted you.  Being H&H,  a negative post when all the 'experts' on H&H were wishing you luck and saying how wonderful the horse was would have caused the usual mayhem and abuse and personal attack if anyone dared to voice a differing opinion on your would be purchase. 

Just posted response to clarify why I and I suspect a handful of others did not give comment or caution before you even had this poor animal vetted, despite the huge question marks that were very obvious from day 1.  I really hope these awful dealers refund your loss and you very quickly find the right horse for you.


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## Leo Walker (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Guys has someone posted on Facebook about this horse as I'm now getting a load of backlash from the seller..????
She's saying I'll get my deposit if I delete this thread and FB posts. I know NOTHING about any FB posts..??!!
		
Click to expand...

Do you think they misinterpreted my post saying in your shoes I would post on FB? I've not seen anything and I've not been well today so been laid down most of the afternoon mindlessly trawling the internet so prob would have seen it


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## Amymay (17 May 2019)

8.20

Do you have your deposit back?


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## Leo Walker (17 May 2019)

MrsJingle said:



			In response to your quote above, I was one of those who really did not like what I saw on the ad in your original post and alarm bells rang - loudly! Since the vet fail I have voiced that opinion but not before. Why? this is H&H you were being inundated with lots of 'oohing' and 'aahing' when you posted your initial intention to very possibly buy, with this horse and the advert that attracted you.  Being H&H,  a negative post when all the 'experts' on H&H were wishing you luck and saying how wonderful the horse was would have caused the usual mayhem and abuse and personal attack if anyone dared to voice a differing opinion on your would be purchase.

Just posted response to clarify why I and I suspect a handful of others did not give comment or caution before you even had this poor animal vetted, despite the huge question marks that were very obvious from day 1.  I really hope these awful dealers refund your loss and you very quickly find the right horse for you.
		
Click to expand...

Funny as throughout these threads and there have been several, MANY people have made negative posts about horses for sale and there was no "mayhem, abuse or personal attacks" Must just be you that has that affect on people


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## Mrs. Jingle (17 May 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			Funny as throughout these threads and there have been several, MANY people have made negative posts about horses for sale and there was no "mayhem, abuse or personal attacks" Must just be you that has that affect on people 

Click to expand...

Please just go away LM - your pathetic 'jump' on any single thing I post that you perceive as controversial is frankly pathetic, revealing to say the least about yourself and your rather sick mind and delight in stirring up trouble for anyone other than yourself...but then we mustn't criticise poor bullied and downtrodden you must we eh?   nasty little woman


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

I have given her till 10pm as a goodwill gesture she's refused unless I remove all of my posts.


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## JFTDWS (17 May 2019)

Ah, she expects you to be able to do something that would be IMPOSSIBLE for you to do, before she does what she is LEGALLY REQUIRED to do for you?

She's coming out of this really well


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## FlyingCircus (17 May 2019)

I'd keep the thread. If nothing is untrue, then it's fair game to post your experiences and hopefully it will warn anyone who is interested in the horse that it has already "failed" one vetting.


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## TPO (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I have given her till 10pm as a goodwill gesture she's refused unless I remove all of my posts.
		
Click to expand...

She can refuse all she wants, she is breaking the law and will have to pay the money back via small claims.

She incriminating herself further by blackmailing you and by default admitting that the money is not hers and should be returned to you. She cant put conditions on what needs done before she returns it.

She is daft to keep spinning this out. She returns the money and this thread will die a death, end of story.


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## FlyingCircus (17 May 2019)

It's mad the lengths people go to to hold onto Â£200 that isn't theirs. I'd imagine their reputation is more important to them than Â£200 - but apparently not!


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## Amymay (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I have given her till 10pm as a goodwill gesture she's refused unless I remove all of my posts.
		
Click to expand...

Unbelievable and this is what gives sellers a bad name.

Seller, the _only_ issue you have is one created by yourself.  The OP has only reported an unsuccessful vetting and the disappointment of having to walk away from a nice sounding horse.  End of discussion and we all move on.  _Until_ the question of the return of the deposit comes up and we find out you refuse to return it, unless certain conditions are met.

This post will run on, and on until that deposit is returned - not great for business, but an outcome that is entirely of your making, and solving ðŸ˜


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## JFTDWS (17 May 2019)

FlyingCircus said:



			It's mad the lengths people go to to hold onto Â£200 that isn't theirs. I'd imagine their reputation is more important to them than Â£200 - but apparently not!
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps they don't have one they'd worry about losing!


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## indie1282 (17 May 2019)

SLH I would stop posting on this thread and proceed through the small claims court. Dont contact the seller via text,messages or any social media platform. 

Also when you next go to view a horse it might be a good idea not to post about it on here as a lot of sellers may be on here.

Good luck in your search!

P.S Contact Janet George about her horse!


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

If I thought the seller would do the right thing I would just ask for the thread to be removed or at least closed, however, it is the sellers legal obligation to refund (whether she thinks otherwise or not) and me removing the thread is goodwill.
She's claiming now that I'm blackmailing her, which is a bit of a cheek..!!! 
They have clearly decided to go down the legal route so I can only hope they come to their senses before 10pm.

At the moment I doubt I could afford one from JG but will get finances back on track before looking at any and then contact her


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## Pearlsasinger (17 May 2019)

Print a copy of this thread off, with any communication you have from the seller, as evidence for the small claims court.  Iit sounds as if your case will be proved.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Print a copy of this thread off, with any communication you have from the seller, as evidence for the small claims court.  Iit sounds as if your case will be proved.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I plan to do, I also have copies of ALL of the messages plus the original advert etc. I have the vets report, the deposit receipt 
and some other evidence that I dont with to post here on the open forum.
They don't have to do it this way but hey ho. 

As for not posted because other sellers may be on here...surely genuine people are not going to have a reason to be worried. All the seller had to do was at least pretend to be sorry that the horse has problems and refund the deposit without any hassle. Job done.


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## AdorableAlice (17 May 2019)

SpringArising said:



			Sorry the vetting failed SHL. But always go with your gut feeling.

It is amusing how some people suddenly already knew XYZ _after_ they're presented with the facts...
		
Click to expand...

There are some posters on the forum that can make a reasonable judgement on conformation in conjunction with longevity and purpose.  Some have decades of experience that may be of help to others.  I find it amusing that some people judge a horse as being suitable for whatever, because it has a nice face, fluffy feet or is a nice colour.

Successfully buying horses is a minefield, even with a hefty budget.  Trying to buy on a limited budget and from a dealer is beyond a minefield sadly.


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## Snitch (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Guys has someone posted on Facebook about this horse as I'm now getting a load of backlash from the seller..????
She's saying I'll get my deposit if I delete this thread and FB posts. I know NOTHING about any FB posts..??!!
		
Click to expand...

Reply telling her you have no control over Facebook, but all of us will stop posting on this thread just as soon as your deposit is showing in your account. ðŸ‘
(and no I didnâ€™t post on Facebook or anywhere else, in case anyone was wondering.)


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## JFTDWS (17 May 2019)

Snitch said:



			Reply telling her you have no control over Facebook, but all of us will stop posting on this thread just as soon as your deposit is showing in your account. ðŸ‘
(and no I didnâ€™t post on Facebook or anywhere else, in case anyone was wondering.)
		
Click to expand...

Aye, sure.  We'll get bored and piss off when she sends the money back.  Until then, we keep bumping it back up because that's the kind of sad little losers we are 

I didn't post anything on facebook, but I'm rather tempted to now!


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## Snitch (17 May 2019)

JFTD-WS said:



			Aye, sure.  We'll get bored and piss off when she sends the money back.  Until then, we keep bumping it back up because that's the kind of sad little losers we are 

Click to expand...

Exactly!


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## sky1000 (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			If I thought the seller would do the right thing I would just ask for the thread to be removed or at least closed, however, it is the sellers legal obligation to refund (whether she thinks otherwise or not) and me removing the thread is goodwill.
She's claiming now that I'm blackmailing her, which is a bit of a cheek..!!!
They have clearly decided to go down the legal route so I can only hope they come to their senses before 10pm.

At the moment I doubt I could afford one from JG but will get finances back on track before looking at any and then contact her 

Click to expand...

Well I think she has probably read this thread so might know what you can afford so why not contact her?


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## Pearlsasinger (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Yes, that's what I plan to do, I also have copies of ALL of the messages plus the original advert etc. I have the vets report, the deposit receipt
and some other evidence that I dont with to post here on the open forum.
They don't have to do it this way but hey ho.

As for not posted because other sellers may be on here...surely genuine people are not going to have a reason to be worried. All the seller had to do was at least pretend to be sorry that the horse has problems and refund the deposit without any hassle. Job done.
		
Click to expand...



I can't think of any reason why you should not post about any horse that you are thinking of viewing/buying.  Dodgy dealers might wish to take notice that as well as the fb site there is also an HHO network which takes note of honest sellers and the not-so-honest.


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## Snitch (17 May 2019)

JFTD-WS said:



			Aye, sure.  We'll get bored and piss off when she sends the money back.  Until then, we keep bumping it back up because that's the kind of sad little losers we are 

Click to expand...

I believe it would be remiss of us if at least four of us, each hour, did not ask whether the mother trucking sponge seller has returned the OPâ€™s money.


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## WandaMare (17 May 2019)

If the seller feels that hard done by, or feels they have a justifiable case to hold on to the deposit, then why not just post on here and explain their side of things? I'm sure if they were being straightforward then they would welcome the chance to set the record straight. I would genuinely be interested to hear from them because I can't understand how they could justify holding on to the money.


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## Pearlsasinger (17 May 2019)

Well 10 o'clock has come and gone.  Have you got your money, SLH?


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

No deposit, just a message telling me I'm pathetic and I'm hassling her. 
Legal proceedings have started though I'm told they can be stopped at any time if the seller decides to do the right thing.  
I didn't know it could all be done online now which is fab


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## Snitch (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			No deposit, just a message telling me I'm pathetic and I'm hassling her. 
Legal proceedings have started though I'm told they can be stopped at any time if the seller decides to do the right thing.  
I didn't know it could all be done online now which is fab 

Click to expand...

I am going to bed shortly, but will be sure to check in in the morning, which will bump this thread right to the top of the forum.  Again.

Do the decent thing and pay up, Seller!


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## Amymay (17 May 2019)

What a Twonk.

I too will be bumping.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 May 2019)

You guys are stars  
While I could definitely do with that money back it really is now the principle. I hate being treated like an idiot, and I really don't like being accused of blackmail, lying etc. That is just scraping the bottom of the barrel and I feel I've been very truthful and fair.
I'd like the seller to post here but it doesnt look like they will. 
Now waiting for a confirmation email that the claim is submitted. Hopefully the seller will see their own solicitors on Monday


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## Pearlsasinger (17 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Hopefully the seller will see their own solicitors on Monday 

Click to expand...


Or, better still just pay what you are owed, so that the process can be stopped (along with your Â£25 fee).


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## Snitch (17 May 2019)

Iâ€™m just wondering whether you can claim additional monies / compensation for all the additional unpleasantness that has ensued....


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## Snitch (17 May 2019)

Dear Seller,

Hereâ€™s how easy it is!  

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/small-claims-court/

Personally, I wouldnâ€™t want the hassle.  Iâ€™d just do the right thing and pay the money back to the OP.  Itâ€™s the decent thing to do and will save you from the the hassle of going to court and losing.

Much love,
Snitch
xx


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## Bellaboo18 (18 May 2019)

Bump


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## Zero00000 (18 May 2019)

I've searched every possible way you could to link this horse with a post on Facebook and have not been able to, seems the buyer is just trying to get out of paying your deposit back.


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## TPO (18 May 2019)

Bump


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

Zero00000 said:



			I've searched every possible way you could to link this horse with a post on Facebook and have not been able to, seems the buyer is just trying to get out of paying your deposit back.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you, I've been looking too and couldn't find a thing. I certainly haven't posted anything at all on there in any way, shape or form.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Snitch said:



			Dear Seller,

Hereâ€™s how easy it is! 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/small-claims-court/

Personally, I wouldnâ€™t want the hassle.  Iâ€™d just do the right thing and pay the money back to the OP.  Itâ€™s the decent thing to do and will save you from the the hassle of going to court and losing.

Much love,
Snitch
xx
		
Click to expand...


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Wow, what a load of crap, I was there the other day when you and the other woman said the you were only paying for a stage 2 vetting so why you're leading everyone to believe the vet stopped is beyond me, you made it quite clear you couldn't a afford a stage 5 ( which is fine, but why lie!!) Show me a horse of that age and what shes done that would be a clean bill of health, what she has a few knocks and marks , and what? The mare is sound and doing the job now as per advertisement. You also paid the deposit (witness has also made a statement stating you were told that it was non refundable) then later that day mentioned about a vetting, you're entitled to Jack shit back and if it was my horse I'd tell you to go and whistle, especially after the abuse and harassing messages you have been sending! BUT the seller has stated about a hundred times she will you give you the money back once her and her mare are taken off here, how would you like it if a load of do gooders were discussing you and your horse ? Especially as the mare is sound! But no, you just keep going on about court and posting everything on here ,making you're self out to be the victim, if only they could see the messages, you're not as innocent as you're making out. 

What's up, are you that gutted Jeremy Kyle has finished so you have to post everything about your life on here for entertainment instead?? 
The money is there waiting once all the negative comments are removed, its been there all along.


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

Ahhh fantastic,  you're here. Now, as you are accusing me of harassment would you like me to post the whole conversation in full on here..??  Maybe I could post the conversation with the lies told to another potential buyer..??
Vettings were mentioned much earlier than you have stated, I have proof of that. I can certainly get other proof from my vet about the conversation we had about the staging of the vettings and his opinions of his findings.
And accusing me of having mental issues (in the text I've just received) is not clever.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Post the messages, I don't care. 
IM ALSO NOT THE SELLER!

She knew it was to do with you, she told you that, hence why she put it. Their is nothing at all wrong with the mare.
Your friend said you were only paying for a stage 2 vetting.
You're a spreading a load of crap.
Cant believe the way you're letting it go on, why should a sound horse and respectable person be slated all over here? She will happily give you the money which she keeps staring but you're having none of it.


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

I cannot believe the crap that is being spouted. 
The horse is not sound, READ WHAT THE VET HAS WRITTEN..!!!! And I have not slated the seller. READ THE POSTS..!!!!
My friend has no idea what you are on about and will also put that in writing. 
She has not in anyway said she will happily refund me, she is trying to blackmail me and I don't appreciate it. 
Please, anybody who would like to view the conversation between me and the seller let me know, I'm literally past caring.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Wow, I was stood by my car and I was talking to her, she said you paid for a vetting a few years ago, and that it wasn't expensive but now its Â£200 for a two stage that you were paying for.
The vet has deemed the mare fit for purpose,  the court would laugh you out of there.
Shes not black mailing you, she just doesn't want herself of the mare posted about on here, shes willing to give you the money back, the court will see all the messages stating this


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## OrangeAndLemon (18 May 2019)

I have an exciting new business model. I'm going to get a "good looking, but soon to be a walking vet bill" horse. I will advertise it just below market rate, and interest people in buying. 

They will pay me a deposit, the horse will fail the vetting but I keep the deposit until the unsellable eventually sells.

I reckon I could make about Â£400 a month at least doing this.

I dont understand why the deposit can't be returned now rather than later. It wont have been spent because it was a deposit.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

I'll meet you with the money my self if you like, you get the thread removed because it's not fair, any horse has the potential to go wrong, she is deemed fit so this isn't fair.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Oh here we go, you people make my blood boil, got nothing better to do eh? Their is nothing wrong with the horse!! She wants to refund the money!! Read the messages!!


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

OrangeAndLemon said:



			I have an exciting new business model. I'm going to get a "good looking, but soon to be a walking vet bill" horse. I will advertise it just below market rate, and interest people in buying.

They will pay me a deposit, the horse will fail the vetting but I keep the deposit until the unsellable eventually sells.

I reckon I could make about Â£400 a month at least doing this.

I dont understand why the deposit can't be returned now rather than later. It wont have been spent because it was a deposit.
		
Click to expand...

 To be fair she didn't "fail" the vet. However there are problems there which need further investigation. These would be costly and of course uninsurable and I was advised to only proceed with extreme caution.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

If you have no intention of doing this, please stop messaging and harassing her, you have been massaging her before 6am this morning giving her crap, she's a honest person who suffers with her nerves.
If this cant be resolved with the post coming down and the money returned then just see her in court. Please don't message her anymore


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Yes that's fine, she will give you the money
Back beki, the horse is sound now so how would she have known about these problems before the vet came? Let's just be adults and stop this now  its going to far. I'll meet you half way with the cash, you take it down there and I'll pay,  if not please don't contact her, she hasn't slept all night and her nerves are really bad, the constant messages off you are making her ill and shes not a dis honest person


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

SHE was the one who messaged me at 5.06am this morning...!!!!!!


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Ok beki. Of course you are right as usual.

Do you want to meet to get the money?


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

I have given my details to the seller. I dont need to discuss this with you.  She only wants to refund the money with conditions attached.


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## ihatework (18 May 2019)

SLH I would advise not meeting these people they sound wholly unpleasant.

Internet banking will do the job just fine without having to waste petrol and putting your safety at risk.

Hopefully the money will get transferred ASAP and you can come on here and say matter closed (and prob good to get the thread removed).

Otherwise Iâ€™d advise to stop replying or contacting these people in any format (on here or email/text), they know what they need to do.


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## Barlow (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			Ok beki. Of course you are right as usual.

Do you want to meet to get the money?
		
Click to expand...

Why should she have to meet you? Whatâ€™s wrong with a simple and instant bank transfer?


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

IHW you are right. I suspect the poster is wanting to defend the seller which I have no issue with but the manner is which that has been conducted is foolish. I've stated that I will attempt to get this thread removed but I wont do it under duress by them withholding the deposit.
I've started the small claims proceedings last night which I can obviously stop at any time. 
I will allow the seller to decide their best course of action on their own terms.


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

Much better transfer the money into OPâ€™s account thereâ€™s no reason for anyone to have to meet given your tone Winter113 I would not want to meet with you .
Thereâ€™s no reason to meet, OP had a horse vetted that vetting showed some extremely worrying stuff that makes the horse unsuitable for her .
All the owner of the horse has to do is repay the deposit then they never need to hear or think of OP again.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Ok that's fine. Stop contacting her then or we will get the police involved ,its harassment.

She doesn't even need to give you the money back, but she will, but this thread needs to be removed,  slandering a innocent horse and person isn't fair.

We'll just see you in court beki, you will get it paid for anyway because off all the benefits your friend said you were on


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

I would not want to meet you either gold star, what a melt


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

Thankfully I have no idea what you mean .
And what you are adding to resolving this situation I have no idea.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Same to you.


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			Ok that's fine. Stop contacting her then or we will get the police involved ,its harassment.

She doesn't even need to give you the money back, but she will, but this thread needs to be removed,  slandering a innocent horse and person isn't fair.

We'll just see you in court beki, you will get it paid for anyway because off all the benefits your friend said you were on
		
Click to expand...

The only bully I see here is you .
This will not help.
Asking for a deposit back is not harassment .
All this can be used as evidence of what happened to OP when she tried to get her deposit back .
Your posts are going to be great evidence for OP when she submits her claim to the small claims court .


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

BullyðŸ¤¦â€â™€ï¸ðŸ˜‚
Stop getting involved with something that has nothing to do with you.
She wants to give the money back but this also needs removing, not hard is it.
Don't think you can threaten me with court, they'll laugh her out of there. It was a non refundable deposit which she is willing to pay back


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## OrangeAndLemon (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			BullyðŸ¤¦â€â™€ï¸ðŸ˜‚
Stop getting involved with something that has nothing to do with you.
She wants to give the money back but this also needs removing, not hard is it.
Don't think you can threaten me with court, they'll laugh her out of there. It was a non refundable deposit which she is willing to pay back
		
Click to expand...

If she is willing to pay it back them why hasn't it been paid?

She has the bank details and you've said it would ease her worries. Surely everyone would be happier once that is done and a line can be drawn.


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

Winter 113 You are not in charge of when why and what I post on the forum .
Why are you so wound up.
Horses fail the vet all the time and sellers return the deposit .
Why any seller would think they could retain a potential deposit buyers money when the horse they where selling has a vets report highlighting serious concerns like these I have no idea .
Are they very inexperienced ?


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Because she would like this removed first which is completely fair, come on the horse is sound and fit for purpose,  their is no need for a whitch hunt , she will send it over as soon as its been removed, it's a win win then isn't it.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Because the deposit was left with no mention of a vetting, also the horse didn't fail the vet, she has even said that her self and the horse was deemed fit.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Not as in experienced as you goldbar ðŸ˜‚


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

What are you talking about .


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## OrangeAndLemon (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			Because she would like this removed first which is completely fair, come on the horse is sound and fit for purpose,  their is no need for a whitch hunt , she will send it over as soon as its been removed, it's a win win then isn't it.
		
Click to expand...

I'm afraid it isn't quite that simple. OP can't remove the post, only an admin can do that. You would have had to agree to some terms and conditions when you signed up to the forum, its explained in there. 

OP can request the post be removed and then admin will look into it and decide on the appropriate course of action.


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## dogatemysalad (18 May 2019)

I'd take a screenshot of these outrageous posts from the seller/ friend. I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with people like this, but most of all, I feel really sorry for the poor horse. 
Don't let this put you off SLH,  there are decent sellers out there who want the best for their horses.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

It would be easier if she could do that , she could save all these messages for court If she was afraid the post would get removed then she wouldnt receive the money (which whe would immediately)


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

OP canâ€™t remove this thread from the forum a member canâ€™t remove their threads itâ€™s not how the forum works .
She might be able might next week to ask the the administrators if they would consider removing it but she canâ€™t remove it .
Itâ€™s very unusual for a thread to be removed .
All the seller needs to do is transfer the deposit to OPs account .
This a fast moving forum with lots of active posters within a day this thread will drop down and disappear from the active pages .


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Gold bar go and get your drama fix somewhere else, I'm not replying to you no more, you're all commenting about a topic you know nothing about.
And just for the record, it is harassment what shes been sending her.


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			Because the deposit was left with no mention of a vetting
		
Click to expand...

  This is a lie and I have proof.
I have a disability premium for a long term health condition but what business that is of yours or relevance it has I've no idea.
You clearly do not have the correct facts and your name calling is extremely infantile. In order to make such bold statements as "they'll laugh her out of court" you would need to have a much better grasp on the legal system than your posts are suggesting.
You also dont have a very clear understanding of the definition of harassment either ðŸ™„ðŸ™„


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## dogatemysalad (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			Gold bar go and get your drama fix somewhere else, I'm not replying to you no more, you're all commenting about a topic you know nothing about.
And just for the record, it is harassment what shes been sending her.
		
Click to expand...

Who are you and what is your role in this sorry tale? Are you the seller or are you a friend who wants to be involved in the drama ? You aren't helping your friends case.


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## Reacher (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			r, you have been massaging her before 6am this morning giving her crap, she's a honest person who suffers with her nerves.
Ie
		
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Well hopefully she enjoyed the relaxing massage


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## wills_91 (18 May 2019)

Wow! What a circus! 

Slh hope you get your deposit back and this nastiness stops soon.


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			Gold bar go and get your drama fix somewhere else, I'm not replying to you no more, you're all commenting about a topic you know nothing about.
And just for the record, it is harassment what shes been sending her.
		
Click to expand...

Just to clear you are not in charge of where I go and what I do .


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

I'm just stating what your friend said about your benefits so I'm just saying you should get the court case paid for you. 
We also have proof and statements that it was a non refundable deposit yet she is willing to refund you, she will do it immediately, she just wants the thread removed because every Tom dick and harry is slating her and the mare when the mare is sound and fit for purpose and the seller is a genuine person.
And the court would laugh you out of there, how many messages do you have where shes trying to give you the money back? Its your own fault for putting your business on here for all these do gooders to see, if you cant get it removed then the money wont be returned. The court will sort it


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

You do not have "proof" as it wasn't stated anywhere in writing or verbally.
She hasn't tried to give me the deposit back, she (and yourself) are currently trying to blackmail me into doing so. Courts take a pretty dim view of that kind of behaviour.


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

Yes the small claims court will sort it .
Donâ€™t you understand OP canâ€™t remove the thread .
And you cant stop us posting on the thread


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## OrangeAndLemon (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			I'm just stating what your friend said about your benefits so I'm just saying you should get the court case paid for you.
We also have proof and statements that it was a non refundable deposit yet she is willing to refund you, she will do it immediately, she just wants the thread removed because every Tom dick and harry is slating her and the mare when the mare is sound and fit for purpose and the seller is a genuine person.
		
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Erm, the only element of this which made us question her integrity was not repaying the deposit. While some may have been overly frank in their assessment of the horse from the advert, the only real suggestion of poor character has been your behaviour and attitude on here.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

We do have proof.
Cant you just message admin to try and get this removed, all this can be forgotten about then?


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			We do have proof.
Cant you just message admin to try and get this removed, all this can be forgotten about then?
		
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 You do not because it doesn't exist..!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Goldenstar said:



			Yes the small claims court will sort it .
Donâ€™t you understand OP canâ€™t remove the thread .
And you can stop us posting on the thread
		
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Boring ðŸ˜´ðŸ˜´ðŸ˜´


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			We do have proof.
Cant you just message admin to try and get this removed, all this can be forgotten about then?
		
Click to expand...

As far as I am aware there is no admin at the weekend .


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			You do not because it doesn't exist..!!!!!!!!!!!
		
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Umm ok.
I'm not going to bother replying, this is playground behaviour. 
She wants to give you the money back, court wont be happy you're wasting there time.
Good luck, you'll need it.


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

There will be no court itâ€™s an online process .


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			Boring ðŸ˜´ðŸ˜´ðŸ˜´
		
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Then toddle off elsewhere I have all day for this .


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## TPO (18 May 2019)

Regardless of if you're the seller or a friend of you are doing a really good job of digging a bigger hole for yourself/her and incriminating yourself/her further.

The vets report from the vetting is on the thread, can be used as evidence in the claim and refutes your statement regarding Horse's soundness (ie flexion tests for starters) which doesn't show you/seller as honest about it's condition now that you are on here posting what you have. No one cares about a few knocks and scars but the more serious aspects of the vet report are what caused the concern and why the horse was not fit for purpose for the potential buyer SLH.

If you're not the seller then if I was them I'd be angry at you for inflaming the situation and providing SLH with more written proof of the dishonesty that has taken place. You haven't helped her cause at all and possibly made it worse.

The money is not the sellers to keep. The receipt does not state it was non refundable. SLH was not verbally told it was non refundable/only to hold for vetting and had a friend there as witness. The money is not the sellers to use to blackmail SLH.

This is all easily resolved by sending SLH's Â£200 deposit back to her via bank transfer immediately. Otherwise small claims will ensure that happens. Surely no one wants that hanging over them for the sake of returning Â£200 that is not theirs to legally keep?

This is only a drama because of the deposit not being returned. The thread would have ended with the failed vetting and back to horse shopping. It's by trying to unlawfully keep the Â£200 that this has spiralled and as such that is how it easily it can be resolved.


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Goldenstar said:



			Then toddle off elsewhere I have all day for this .
		
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I can tell. Get a life


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## southerncomfort (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			Ok beki. Of course you are right as usual.

Do you want to meet to get the money?
		
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Do NOT agree to meet this person under any circumstances!


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			I can tell. Get a life
		
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Why do you feel the need to be so nasty ?


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## indie1282 (18 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			At the moment I doubt I could afford one from JG but will get finances back on track before looking at any and then contact her 

Click to expand...

JG knew your budget before and if your on Â£200 down she may still have something. Just PM her and ask what she has! You could be wasting time looking at unsuitable horses when she has something just right for you.


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## southerncomfort (18 May 2019)

TPO said:



			Regardless of if you're the seller or a friend of you are doing a really good job of digging a bigger hole for yourself/her and incriminating yourself/her further.

The vets report from the vetting is on the thread, can be used as evidence in the claim and refutes your statement regarding Horse's soundness (ie flexion tests for starters) which doesn't show you/seller as honest about it's condition now that you are on here posting what you have. No one cares about a few knocks and scars but the more serious aspects of the vet report are what caused the concern and why the horse was not fit for purpose for the potential buyer SLH.

If you're not the seller then if I was them I'd be angry at you for inflaming the situation and providing SLH with more written proof of the dishonesty that has taken place. You haven't helped her cause at all and possibly made it worse.

The money is not the sellers to keep. The receipt does not state it was non refundable. SLH was not verbally told it was non refundable/only to hold for vetting and had a friend there as witness. The money is not the sellers to use to blackmail SLH.

This is all easily resolved by sending SLH's Â£200 deposit back to her via bank transfer immediately. Otherwise small claims will ensure that happens. Surely no one wants that hanging over them for the sake of returning Â£200 that is not theirs to legally keep?

This is only a drama because of the deposit not being returned. The thread would have ended with the failed vetting and back to horse shopping. It's by trying to unlawfully keep the Â£200 that this has spiralled and as such that is how it easily it can be resolved.
		
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Plus who in their right mind would even consider viewing this horse now after all this?? Most people do a quick Google before viewing a horse.  This thread shows what an unpleasant person the seller is.

Look I get that the vets findings were a shock.  I'm willing to believe that you genuinely had no idea about the horse's neurological problems.  But now you do and you have to suck it up and do the right thing for the horse, return the deposit and move on.  It's called being a decent, responsible adult.


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## indie1282 (18 May 2019)

Gosh this has escalated!! 

SLH definitely dont reply to the seller/friend on here and stop messaging/replying to their messages. You have filed a claim now let the court decide the outcome. 

They are not going to voluntarily give you the deposit back -  no way.

@JanetGeorge  please let SLH know if you have a suitable horse within her price range?


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

And we want to return the deposit. Once all this has been deleted. It's not rocket science. 
Under no circumstances will the money be returned until this whitch hunt has been deleted. 

99% of you are really nasty people and are here for the drama not to help get the situation rectified. 
And thanks southern comfort, we definitely didn't know the mare has the supposed issues


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## FlyingCircus (18 May 2019)

southerncomfort said:



			Plus who in their right mind would even consider viewing this horse now after all this?? Most people do a quick Google before viewing a horse.  This thread shows what an unpleasant person the seller is.

Look I get that the vets findings were a shock.  I'm willing to believe that you genuinely had no idea about the horse's neurological problems.  But now you do and you have to suck it up and do the right thing for the horse, return the deposit and move on.  It's called being a decent, responsible adult.
		
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Never mind the fact the horse sounds like a walking timebomb for issues, the unsavory characters involved in the sale are enough to make anyone have second thoughts! Yikes.


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

OP can not delete the thread and even if she could .
A seller canâ€™t refuse to return a deposit dependant on the buyer doing something which did not form part of the contract when the deposit was paid .
Itâ€™s not going to be a defence when this gets to the small claims court .


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## indie1282 (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			And we want to return the deposit. Once all this has been deleted. It's not rocket science.
Under no circumstances will the money be returned until this whitch hunt has been deleted.

99% of you are really nasty people and are here for the drama not to help get the situation rectified.
And thanks southern comfort, we definitely didn't know the mare has the supposed issues
		
Click to expand...

Only the admin team can delete threads and its up to them if they think it should be deleted so if the OP requests it there is no guarantee it will be taken down.

To me this seems like a small easily resolved matter that's gotten way out of hand.

If you put yourself in the OPs place for a minute - she loved the horse and was happy to leave a deposit in good faith to secure the horse until it got vetted. Although it didn't 'technically' fail the vet was very concerned that there was neurological issue that he/she felt would get worse in time and therefore advised extreme caution to the OP regarding purchasing this horse.

If your vet said this to you, would you still happily buy a horse that you know could potentially have serious problems later on? OP is looking for a horse to keep and love until the end if its days so understandably would not want to buy and expressed her disappointment and sadness on here.

I dont know how many horses you or the seller has sold but it is unusual to say that a deposit is not refundable- if I went to view a horse and the seller said my deposit was non refundable I would walk away from the sale.

I would bank transfer the Â£200 and move on from this.


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## Red-1 (18 May 2019)

Gosh, this has all got very "Facebook" overnight. That is where I usually see someone wade in, flounce, do silly behaviour, try to get everyone to join in, call everyone names for joining in.

I feel all swept along with the drama of it, so I will become all "Facebook dweller" on you...


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## TPO (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			And we want to return the deposit. Once all this has been deleted. It's not rocket science.
Under no circumstances will the money be returned until this whitch hunt has been deleted.

99% of you are really nasty people and are here for the drama not to help get the situation rectified.
And thanks southern comfort, we definitely didn't know the mare has the supposed issues
		
Click to expand...

The sticking point is that the deposit should have been returned when SLH informed buyer that the horse was deemed not fit for her purpose due to findings during the vetting.

It is fair to assume that the deposit wasnt the first thing on seller's mind when they were told that information. However when they were contacted to ask for the deposit to be returned they should have done that immediately.

Instead that didnt happen and they have kept the money that should have been returned on Thursday pm. They are now trying to blackmail SLH before they will return the money.

Given that they have proven themselves not to be honest or trustworthy to date SLH is in the right not to comply with the demands. There is nothing to assure SLH that she will get her money even if the thread was removed.

Your posts have further confirmed that the seller acknowledges that the money is not theirs and should be returned but that they aren't doing that until demands are met.

No one has mentioned the seller by name yet you have posted on here using SLH name and tried to shame her over being in receipt of benefits and for having a disability. That is not the behaviour of a decent human being. 

I'm really struggling to grasp what the issue is. Return what doesn't belong to the seller and that is the end of this thread which will disappear during a weekend of posting; dont refund the money and undoubtedly this thread will stay active until the small claim case is resolved. Just now the seller has to return Â£200 which does not belong to them. If they let it go to small claims they are also liable for Â£25 costs and if it does go to court a further Â£25. So that puts them at least Â£50 out of pocket of their own money on top of the Â£200 that isnt theirs to start with, never mind the emotional toll of having this hanging over their head and being dragged out.

It's not hard, just be a decent human and return SLH money to her. End of story


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## little_critter (18 May 2019)

Just to show the other side of the coin. 
The horse I had vetted on the same day had a pretty big failure early on in the vetting. 
I believe it was a genuine surprise to the seller, they were apologetic. 
They also messaged me later in the day saying they had had their own vet out to check the horse following the vetting findings and their vet confirmed the issue. They apologised again (no need, I felt more sorry for them). 
There are good sellers out there too. Itâ€™s unfortunate youâ€™ve found a bad one.


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

I had several horses fail the vet two,years ago when I was looking .
No seller asked for a deposit .
Non showed the horse to anyone else while it was waiting for vetting .
One seller refused to let the vet lunge the horse on the hard so the vet xrayed itâ€™s hocks expensive vetting but a very very lucky escape for me .
There are good sellers out there .
This behaviour is not the norm in my experiance .


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## ycbm (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			And we want to return the deposit. Once all this has been deleted. It's not rocket science.
Under no circumstances will the money be returned until this whitch hunt has been deleted.

99% of you are really nasty people and are here for the drama not to help get the situation rectified.
And thanks southern comfort, we definitely didn't know the mare has the supposed issues
		
Click to expand...


You don't get to choose the terms of refunding the money. Whether you said it was non returnable or not is now irrelevant. Who said what since is irrelevant.

You cannot fulfill your side of this contract,  to supply a horse with no health issues, which is what you advertised.

Because you can't fulfill the contract, you must return the money. 

So do it.

Now.


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## JennBags (18 May 2019)

I've never left a deposit on a horse!  I left one on a horsebox once, the mechanic who came to look at it told me not to touch it with a bargepole, and the seller refused to return my deposit so a good friend who was a solicitor wrote to him, and he returned it after all 

@Winter113 as others have said, you don't get to dictate the terms of refunding the deposit.  The seller is under a legal obligation to return the deposit, whether the OP is on benefits or had a 2 stage vetting or has green skin with spots on.  Your behaviour is appalling.


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## HeyMich (18 May 2019)

Jeezo, this is like a very bad taste, poorly written soap opera unfolding... I'd quite like to fast forward to the conclusion now please - and I'm sure OP would too! 

Seller, and seller's friend - cough up! Now!! 

OP - chin up and carry on. Not all sellers are complete arses, like these guys seem to be. 

Admin (if you are here at weekends) - please don't delete this thread until OP can confirm deposit has been fully refunded.


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## Amymay (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			Post the messages, I don't care.
IM ALSO NOT THE SELLER!

She knew it was to do with you, she told you that, hence why she put it. Their is nothing at all wrong with the mare.
Your friend said you were only paying for a stage 2 vetting.
You're a spreading a load of crap.
Cant believe the way you're letting it go on, why should a sound horse and respectable person be slated all over here? She will happily give you the money which she keeps staring but you're having none of it.
		
Click to expand...

It makes no difference whether it was a 2 stage or a 5 stage vetting.  The vet report indicates a problem.  Perhaps the vet was too thorough? Perhaps the mare was having a bad day? Who knows. But the OP paid for advice and would be silly to ignore it.

Itâ€™s good to hear that the deposit will be back with the OP shortly.


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## Amymay (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			.....the horse is sound now so how would she have known about these problems before the vet came?
		
Click to expand...

So she was lame?


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

ycbm said:



			You don't get to choose the terms of refunding the money. Whether you said it was non returnable or not is now irrelevant. Who said what since is irrelevant.

You cannot fulfill your side of this contract,  to supply a horse with no health issues, which is what you advertised.

Because you can't fulfill the contract, you must return the money.

So do it.

Now.
		
Click to expand...

Do one


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

Snort


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## Leo Walker (18 May 2019)

When the court returns your money SLH I would make sure that this was seen everywhere. Clearly the seller is VERY upset that they thought it was going on Facebook so that would be my first stop. A nice factual account of what happened, with the judgement details and a link to this thread, because i wouldnt delete this thread now for anything


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## ycbm (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			Do one
		
Click to expand...


What I do is not relevant. What is relevant is that you advertised a horse with no health issues, and you have available only a horse with identified neurological deficits which require further investigation.

Because of this, you cannot now supply the goods which you advertised and the contract which you entered into is null and void.  

You must return the deposit, and if this goes to a small claims court you will be returning the buyer's court costs as well.

You cannot win this case, and you will at that point have a County Court Judgment on your credit history.

Just pay up.


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## ester (18 May 2019)

'we want to return the deposit' 
crack on then

'it's not rocket science'
well it kind of is when you are asking someone to do something they cannot actually do.

Good grief what an unecessary palaver.


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## Morganfan (18 May 2019)

OM Gosh, I am reading this in Australia and unfortunately having a lovely giggle (sorry SLH) it must be hell for you.  How the seller thinks they can 1. not refund immediately and 2. make demands is hysterically funny, they are so so so in the wrong.  Keep pushing SLH and hopefully a lot of sellers will think twice before (possibly unknowingly) advertising a horse so wrongly. Good Luck, keep posting, we are with you.


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)

Goldenstar said:



			Why do you feel the need to be so nasty ?
		
Click to expand...

Quite!  The level of subjectivity from Winter113 tells me that she is the seller.  When somebody is unable to be objective to this degree, itâ€™s usually because theyâ€™re right in the thick of it.
Iâ€™d be paying the deposit back.  But then I would never have put myself in the Seller/ Winter113â€™s position in the first place.


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

ester said:



			'we want to return the deposit' 
crack on then

'it's not rocket science'
well it kind of is when you are asking someone to do something they cannot actually do.

Good grief what an unecessary palaver.
		
Click to expand...

This Ester is a very good point .


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## conniegirl (18 May 2019)

Good grief, if the deposit had been paid back on Thursday as it should have been then this thread would have died already and we would all be looking for other horses for SLH to view. 

As it is this thread will keep going untill the deposit is returned and because there are so many replies will show quite high in search engines. The seller really has shot herself in the foot here.

Admin take a dim view of blackmail, the courts take a dim view of blackmail, infact criminal charges can be brought if they feel like it, so the seller should save herself the hassle, pay back the money that is not hers, save herself from a CCJ, extra costs and potential criminal proceedings


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## Amymay (18 May 2019)

I do feel sorry for the mare, but if she has been for sale since February it can only be assumed that other vettings, or more experienced buyers, have picked up on issues.

She should have sold on a first viewing if she was hale and hearty.


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)

I just bumped into a table.

Bump, bump, bumpity bump.


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## D66 (18 May 2019)

bump


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## Regandal (18 May 2019)

Some folk beggar belief.  That poor mare.


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## Morganfan (18 May 2019)

Oops just had a look and this had slipped - can't have that until the deposit has been refunded


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

JennBags said:



			I've never left a deposit on a horse!  I left one on a horsebox once, the mechanic who came to look at it told me not to touch it with a bargepole, and the seller refused to return my deposit so a good friend who was a solicitor wrote to him, and he returned it after all 

@Winter113 as others have said, you don't get to dictate the terms of refunding the deposit.  The seller is under a legal obligation to return the deposit, whether the OP is on benefits or had a 2 stage vetting or has green skin with spots on.  Your behaviour is appalling.
		
Click to expand...

Mine is appalling ðŸ˜‚ you are all so naive believing a load of bull


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## JFTDWS (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			[Content removed]
		
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I suspect that didn't come out quite the way you'd planned


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

Snitch said:



			Quite!  The level of subjectivity from Winter113 tells me that she is the seller.  When somebody is unable to be objective to this degree, itâ€™s usually because theyâ€™re right in the thick of it.
Iâ€™d be paying the deposit back.  But then I would never have put myself in the Seller/ Winter113â€™s position in the first place.
		
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I'm not the seller. Just a witness , your all believing her crap


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## Winter113 (18 May 2019)

JFTD-WS said:



			I suspect that didn't come out quite the way you'd planned 

Click to expand...

No, as some off us actually work so I'm busy unlike you lot who have nothing better to do


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## OrangeAndLemon (18 May 2019)

little_critter said:



			Just to show the other side of the coin.
The horse I had vetted on the same day had a pretty big failure early on in the vetting.
I believe it was a genuine surprise to the seller, they were apologetic.
They also messaged me later in the day saying they had had their own vet out to check the horse following the vetting findings and their vet confirmed the issue. They apologised again (no need, I felt more sorry for them).
There are good sellers out there too. Itâ€™s unfortunate youâ€™ve found a bad one.
		
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I'm sorry for you Little Critter that your potential isn't coming home with you. I'm sure the right horse is out there and you'll find each other soon. Good Luck with your search.


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## conniegirl (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			No, as some off us actually work so I'm busy unlike you lot who have nothing better to do
		
Click to expand...

It Saturday, most of us have all day to keep bumping this!


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## OrangeAndLemon (18 May 2019)

conniegirl said:



			It Saturday, most of us have all day to keep bumping this!
		
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I'm sitting in waiting for the postman....nothing better to do right now. I work but not on the weekends unless it's something urgent.


Arrgghhh...postman just been and gone without leaving a lovely show Pelham sized parcel.


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## JFTDWS (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			No, as some off us actually work so I'm busy unlike you lot who have nothing better to do
		
Click to expand...

Um, I don't think the forum swear filter only kicks in if you have to work for a living. 

Must be so hard for you, having to work.  Personally I live off my huge personal fortune left to me by my Aunt Agatha.  I'm afraid to say I was rather pipped when she toddled off her mortal whatsit, as she did rather put the wind up one, what with all that rot about marrying me off to every Honoria Glossop or Madeleine Basset she met!

Oh wait...

I'm not Bertie Wooster.  I'm a normal human being who also has a job.  I'm just not doing it right now, what with it being a Saturday morning and all


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## milliepops (18 May 2019)

OrangeAndLemon said:



			I'm sitting in waiting for the postman....nothing better to do right now. I work but not on the weekends unless it's something urgent.
		
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Yep I'm on call but all quiet so far so I'm waiting on a load of washing and watching the birds on the feeder outside. Dum de dum *twiddles thumbs*

It's always fun when a new poster joins and proceeds to insult everyone else while trying to point out how reasonable they are being


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## conniegirl (18 May 2019)

OrangeAndLemon said:



			I'm sitting in waiting for the postman....nothing better to do right now. I work but not on the weekends unless it's something urgent.
		
Click to expand...

Ditto, bumping this thread is also an excellent procrastination tool when one is supposed to be cleaning the house!


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## Amymay (18 May 2019)

Winter113 said:



			I'm not the seller. Just a witness , your all believing her crap
		
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What _crap_?

The unsuccessful vetting, or the failure of the deposit to be returned? 

Genuinely puzzled ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸


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## Leo Walker (18 May 2019)

I'm on the sick for at least the next month, so I have nothing better to do with my time than bump this over and over.


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## FlyingCircus (18 May 2019)

It really doesn't matter what people on here believe. If OP is not telling the full story (though not accusing her of such), then there's still the small claims court who will make their judgement based on all evidence provided to them from both sides.


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)

I just bumped into a table, again.  Clumsy me.

Bump, bump, bumpity bump.


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)

Fgs, just pay up so we can all go about our business!  Iâ€™m heading out to lunch shortly, and would prefer to not have to use my phone to bump you whilst eating.  
(Oh, but I will).


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)




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## Elf On A Shelf (18 May 2019)

As Hagrid would say - It's all a load of Codswallop jn my opinion!


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## Amymay (18 May 2019)

Bump


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)




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## Peregrine Falcon (18 May 2019)

What a palaver. 

Popcorn anyone?


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## Bellaboo18 (18 May 2019)

Winter113 my main concern is for the mare.
I know sometimes things pop up on a vetting and can be as much as a surprise for the owners but the write up from the vet really rings alarm bells of a neurological problems. I hope your friend will get these investigated for the welfare of the horse.


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

Thanks everyone.
Come back to this late as had to sleep off a bit of a migraine  ðŸ™„ðŸ™„
I could post the the whole conversation with the seller (this poster is the seller's neice) which would prove I'm being very firm but not unreasonable. It's a step too personal a thing to do against the seller which is why I've been reluctant to do so but I'm losing patience. For what it's worth I dont think the seller is behind the ridiculous ramblings of her niece, I even tried to give her a heads up that the niece is just making it worse and got a mouthful back.
Neither the seller or niece are grasping the facts of basic law or the fact that I'm unable to remove this thread. Even if I were able to I'm not convinced I'd get my money back anyway. All I keep getting is that they are trying to give me my deposit and I wont accept it, or I'm throwing it back in her face, being pig headed and so on.
I'm being accused of harassment and being abusive and yet the seller has cheerfully texted me at 5.06am and stated by text I "must have mental issues" ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤” 
I would not have pursued this so vehemently had the demands not been started, not I'm just piseed...I want my money back but, win or lose of that front, this thread is a massive win for me..!!!!


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## Morganfan (18 May 2019)

Saturday evening here, just had an election but this is way more entertaining.  come on winter just pay up and let us all get on with running the country.


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## buddylove (18 May 2019)

I would be tempted to cease all contact with both of them, and continue through the small claims process.
Clearly neither grasp the fact that they are withholding your deposit illegally, and you have more than sufficient recourse to claim it back. Unfortunately with people like this, it often takes someone in a position of authority to get the message through; a judgement should do the trick!


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)




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## HeyMich (18 May 2019)

Bumpity bump. 

... Getting really bored of this soap opera episode now...


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## Berpisc (18 May 2019)

Snitch said:



View attachment 32537

Click to expand...

Ahh, I like Mr Men


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## minesadouble (18 May 2019)

SLH, if the Vet stated the horse was not fit for purpose then the seller does not have a leg to stand on regarding the return of the deposit regardless of anything posted on the internet.


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

conniegirl said:



			Ditto, bumping this thread is also an excellent procrastination tool when one is supposed to be cleaning the house!
		
Click to expand...

So true so true


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## Rosemary28 (18 May 2019)

Have a picture of my strange cat to bump the thread (Iâ€™ve just finished my ironing)


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)




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## Pearlsasinger (18 May 2019)

SLH, you need to just block the seller and her niece from texting you/contacting you in person in any way and let justice take its course.  You do not want to inadvertently cause yourself a problem with anything you might say from now on.


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)




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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

Pearlsasinger said:



			SLH, you need to just block the seller and her niece from texting you/contacting you in person in any way and let justice take its course.  You do not want to inadvertently cause yourself a problem with anything you might say from now on.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks. I have done extensive screen shots and saving of messages and blocked the seller from contacting me now. I offered politely one more time to resolve the matter directly and no reply so this is now in the hands of the small claims court. I'm also a Gold Member of the BHS so will contact the legal team there too.
ETA: Ifeel really very sad as I genuinely liked the seller, she seemed really nice. And I loved the horse, she's a sweetheart. BUT I don't need the hearache of a horse with problems,  esp ones that would need costly investigation 
The sellers did not want the horse being sold on to dealers (despite A) Admitting they bought her to sell and B) Having done alot of dealing themselves from Ireland etc) and I had promised (to the best of my reasonable ability) that this mare would have her lifetime home with me. As they are not a million miles away I even offered them visits and the odd ride as they said how much they would miss her.


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## SpringArising (18 May 2019)

AdorableAlice said:



			There are some posters on the forum that can make a reasonable judgement on conformation in conjunction with longevity and purpose.  Some have decades of experience that may be of help to others.  I find it amusing that some people judge a horse as being suitable for whatever, because it has a nice face, fluffy feet or is a nice colour.
		
Click to expand...

Except no one has done that. 

'I knew it would fail the vet based on the photo of its neck' is frankly a daft thing to come out with - as confirmed by the vet, who didn't note anything wrong with it.


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## southerncomfort (18 May 2019)

May I suggest that we all take this opportunity to use all those emojis on our phones that we've never been able to use before.

I'll start...

ðŸŽŽ


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## Cinnamontoast (18 May 2019)

Iâ€™m having ðŸ•for tea then weâ€™re going to the nice ðŸŽŸ where they bring youðŸ·and cheese with ðŸ‡, but they donâ€™t sellðŸ¿.


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## Elf On A Shelf (18 May 2019)

ðŸ¦'s and ðŸ¯'s and ðŸ»'s Oh my!


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## ester (18 May 2019)

that first one looks like a guinea pig...


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## Meredith (18 May 2019)

EKW said:



			ðŸ¦'s and ðŸ¯'s and ðŸ»'s Oh my!
		
Click to expand...

ðŸŽ¼ðŸŒªðŸŒˆ


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)

Well, what a coincidence!!


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)




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## Lexi_ (18 May 2019)

9tails said:



			I've been busy on google attempting to find out what the insults mean as I've never heard them before.  Maybe they're a new level of insult.  Anyway, here you go:

Goldstar - a homosexual person who has never slept with a member of the opposite sex

Melt - an absolute complete f*****g idiot

Gold bar - it's either an Australian $50 note or, more likely judging by the poster, a terrible town that no one knows, it is a drive by town that people pass on their way to Stevens Pass in the Cascade Mountains. The town is full of rednecks and stoners. This is definitely not a place to raise a family. Do not go out at night, you might never be heard from again.
		
Click to expand...

I just assumed they were typo-ing Goldenstarâ€™s username incorrectly! 

Melt is quite a mild insult round by me. Didnâ€™t know it had made it further up the NW though!


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## _HP_ (18 May 2019)

I don't imagine mocking is really helping the situation. I would imagine it would actually just make the seller dig their heels in more. Irrelevant I guess, seeing as OP is going thru the small claims court but anyway....


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## Elf On A Shelf (18 May 2019)

Lexi_ said:



			I just assumed they were typo-ing Goldenstarâ€™s username incorrectly! 

Melt is quite a mild insult round by me. Didnâ€™t know it had made it further up the NW though!
		
Click to expand...

Melt is very prominent in Scotland usually prefixed by - you absolute, you f****** or you absolute f******!


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## Tihamandturkey (18 May 2019)

SpringArising said:



			Except no one has done that.

'I knew it would fail the vet based on the photo of its neck' is frankly a daft thing to come out with - as confirmed by the vet, who didn't note anything wrong with it.
		
Click to expand...

If you're getting at me I said the neck jumped out in one photo - it did - there was significant muscle under the neck which I wouldn't have been happy with myself  - I did not say that I though that was why it failed the vet - try reading posts correctly before being spiteful.


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## 9tails (18 May 2019)

Lexi_ said:



			I just assumed they were typo-ing Goldenstarâ€™s username incorrectly!

Melt is quite a mild insult round by me. Didnâ€™t know it had made it further up the NW though!
		
Click to expand...

I spent time and effort on researching what I thought were insults!  Only to find they could have been typos?  Goddamnit.  I quite like the Gold Bar one.  Apparently Goldstar can also mean glittering up one's butthole.


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## Mahoganybay (18 May 2019)

Iâ€™m not meaning to start an argument here, but can I just get something straight in my head.

OP, saw horse advertised, viewed and put Â£200 deposit down on horse to hold until vetting? Is this correct? 

Seller did not let anyone view horse, therefore could have potentially lost a sale? 

2 stage vetting held, vet did not fail the horse but suggested OP may have problems in the future? OP decided not to purchase horse? 

Am I correct so far? Or have missed anything? 

The seller initially refused to return deposit but is now blackmailing OP to remove this post and then she has agreed to refund? 

But, and Iâ€™m not saying itâ€™s something I would do as I would refund the deposit, surely seller could argue that she has turned away potential sales, may have to pay to re-advertise, livery costs etc and is entitled to keep the deposit as the horse didnâ€™t â€˜failâ€™ the vetting? 

I have never left a deposit on a horse myself, simply because vettings are not pass or fail anymore and Iâ€™m really sorry that the OP is out of pocket, but perhaps a lesson to be learned here fo us all. 

OP I do hope you get your money back ðŸ¤žðŸ¤ž


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## Goldenstar (18 May 2019)

It seems I may have picked a sort of inappropriate name


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## Amymay (18 May 2019)

I have never left a deposit on a horse myself, simply because vettings are not pass or fail anymore and Iâ€™m really sorry that the OP is out of pocket, but perhaps a lesson to be learned here fo us all.
		
Click to expand...

What lesson would that be?


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)

Goldenstar said:



			It seems I may have picked a sort of inappropriate name
		
Click to expand...

I really wouldnâ€™t care or worry.  Only the furious one seems to have an issue with your user name.  ðŸ‘ðŸ˜Š


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## ycbm (18 May 2019)

Mahoganybay said:



			Iâ€™m not meaning to start an argument here, but can I just get something straight in my head.

OP, saw horse advertised, viewed and put Â£200 deposit down on horse to hold until vetting? Is this correct?

Seller did not let anyone view horse, therefore could have potentially lost a sale?

2 stage vetting held, vet did not fail the horse but suggested OP may have problems in the future? OP decided not to purchase horse?

Am I correct so far? Or have missed anything?

The seller initially refused to return deposit but is now blackmailing OP to remove this post and then she has agreed to refund?

But, and Iâ€™m not saying itâ€™s something I would do as I would refund the deposit, surely seller could argue that she has turned away potential sales, may have to pay to re-advertise, livery costs etc and is entitled to keep the deposit as the horse didnâ€™t â€˜failâ€™ the vetting?

I have never left a deposit on a horse myself, simply because vettings are not pass or fail anymore and Iâ€™m really sorry that the OP is out of pocket, but perhaps a lesson to be learned here fo us all.

OP I do hope you get your money back ðŸ¤žðŸ¤ž
		
Click to expand...


There is no pass or fail on most vettings. Vets do not usually fail horses. They give the buyer information, and on the basis of the information the BUYER decides whether or not to go ahead.

In any reasonable person's terms, a significant neurological problem which has already caused muscle wastage and requires further investigation is a failure.

It is normal to leave a deposit pending a vetting in order to show that you are not a time waster. It is not normal to refuse to return that deposit of the buyer is justifiably unhappy with the result of the vetting.

I don't understand what lesson you think should be learned?  Not to pay deposits?  If the buyers of the last horse I sold had not left a deposit, he would have been sold to the people coming the following day who were nice people who were very keen on him as well, and they would have lost out on a horse they are having the time of their lives with.

Deposits are a risk for both sides that are completely normal in buying and selling horses.
.


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## ls0311 (18 May 2019)

Considering that the advert has been deleted so the link doesn't take you to any info about seller, and there's no detailed info on here that you would be able to tell who seller or horse are, surely it's irrelevant if the thread is kept up anyway?! Only the people commenting who saw the advert when first posted will know what the horse looks like and deleting the thread won't change that. 

The thread is not going to damage anyone's reputation by staying up when it's not possible to find out who seller or horse are, so surely refund can just be given and end of story?! 

(apologies if I have missed some vital bit of telling info, but I'm pretty sure I've read it all and there isn't any...)


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## ROMANY 1959 (18 May 2019)

Off to Morrisonâ€™s for more popcorn ðŸ¤ª


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

Mahoganybay said:



			Iâ€™m not meaning to start an argument here, but can I just get something straight in my head.

OP, saw horse advertised, viewed and put Â£200 deposit down on horse to hold until vetting? Is this correct? 

Seller did not let anyone view horse, therefore could have potentially lost a sale? 

2 stage vetting held, vet did not fail the horse but suggested OP may have problems in the future? OP decided not to purchase horse? 

Am I correct so far? Or have missed anything? 

The seller initially refused to return deposit but is now blackmailing OP to remove this post and then she has agreed to refund? 

But, and Iâ€™m not saying itâ€™s something I would do as I would refund the deposit, surely seller could argue that she has turned away potential sales, may have to pay to re-advertise, livery costs etc and is entitled to keep the deposit as the horse didnâ€™t â€˜failâ€™ the vetting? 

I have never left a deposit on a horse myself, simply because vettings are not pass or fail anymore and Iâ€™m really sorry that the OP is out of pocket, but perhaps a lesson to be learned here fo us all. 

OP I do hope you get your money back ðŸ¤žðŸ¤ž
		
Click to expand...


You are partly right. However, the seller advertised the horse as (in her own words) having "no health issues what so ever". 
So they have breached their part of our "contract" by not supplying the horse advertised. Had it been as cut and dried as * horse MIGHT have future issues but is currently good...hmmm I dont want to take the risk of the MIGHT probls* then I would absolutely not expect my deposit returned.
Vet didn't suggest that horse MIGHT have problems in the future...he said that, although the horse could technically do the job ON THAT DAY, the horse had several significant problems which WOULD need further investigation (not insurable) and he suspected these to be neurological and degenerative. His advice was that this would make the horse a very costly purchase, uninsurable and would proceed with the purchase with extreme caution. 
Of course, vets will no longer pass or fail a horse, they can only say if the horse is up to the job it's required to do on the day of the vetting. 
I hope this clears things up somewhat.


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## Tihamandturkey (18 May 2019)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			Off to Morrisonâ€™s for more popcorn ðŸ¤ª
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¥´


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## Fools Motto (18 May 2019)

Good luck SLH in your quest to get your deposit back, and more luck in finding 'the one'. 
I have never seen the advert in question about this mare, so can't comment on that. Just want you to know that I'm wishing you well. Any sane person can clearly see the seller of said mare sounds like they need their marbles re-aligned!


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## OrangeAndLemon (18 May 2019)

I assume there's been no news...hold on in there SLH.


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## Snitch (18 May 2019)

Any news, OP?


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## JFTDWS (18 May 2019)

When will the wait be over, I wonder?  The thread title is somewhat ironic in this context...!


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

Right everyone...while I'm not one for bowing to blackmail I'm going to offer the seller a compromise. 
If everyone could stop bumping/posting then this thread will slowly disappear. As I can't remove the thread this means it will disappear from the active threads.
Seller can then do the refund. Of course if the refund doesn't appear then the thread can be reactivated at any time. I think this is a fair compromise due to the breakdown of trust.


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## splashgirl45 (18 May 2019)

sounds like a good idea , hope all gets sorted out soon for you


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 May 2019)

Ok folks....no more comments pretty please and I will see if sense prevails..!!!!
IF the seller is as reasonable/honest as she's claiming to be then this will resolve the matter.
I've given them till 6pm tomorrow evening.


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## SpringArising (18 May 2019)

Tihama said:



			If you're getting at me I said the neck jumped out in one photo - it did - there was significant muscle under the neck which I wouldn't have been happy with myself  - I did not say that I though that was why it failed the vet - try reading posts correctly before being spiteful.
		
Click to expand...

What you're referring to is called an upside down neck/ewe neck. It's one of the most common and benign confo faults in horses which can be reversed with a lot of correct work. You'd be turning away a hell of a lot of horses if you think an upside down neck is a big deal.

ETA - sorry SHL just catching up. Will not post on this thread again and I really hope you get your money back!


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## Tihamandturkey (18 May 2019)

SpringArising said:



			What you're referring to is called an upside down neck/ewe neck. It's one of the most common and benign confo faults in horses which can be reversed with a lot of correct work. You'd be turning away a hell of a lot of horses if you think an upside down neck is a big deal.

ETA - sorry SHL just catching up. Will not post on this thread again and I really hope you get your money back!
		
Click to expand...

Stop being so bloody patronising ðŸ™„ I'm well aware what a ewe neck is.

The picture actually showed a close coupled upside down neck.

Neither of which I would be willing to buy.

Apologies SLH but I'm really sick of the arrogance of some on here - wishing you well ðŸ’


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## SatansLittleHelper (19 May 2019)

Well folks, guess what..?! STILL NO DEPOSIT..!!! ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬
Obviously I have submitted to the small claims court but it's been suggested to me to day (by some who knows a little of law) that I should call the BHS free legal team tomorrow for info on whether I might actually be able to claim for the vetting too. This is because there was another potential buyer who was interested at the same time as all this was going on that the seller lied to. They told this person (on the evening day of the vetting) that they'd constantly been calling me and I hadn't replied, then had called them to say that I couldn't get the rest of the money..!! They then told the buyer that horse was in perfect health with just a few minor scars on her legs..!! This buyer has sent screenshots of the conversation and is willing to write a statement.  
Person I spoke to about legal stuff says this could show an intention to deceive.  I don't know about any of that but because of the neice posting in the manner she has on here she will now be an unreliable witness to anything. 
I have a witness statement, the vetting, the potential buyer statement, vet will also write a letter explaining the vet findings. Anything else I might need???


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## Red-1 (19 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Well folks, guess what..?! STILL NO DEPOSIT..!!! ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬
Obviously I have submitted to the small claims court but it's been suggested to me to day (by some who knows a little of law) that I should call the BHS free legal team tomorrow for info on whether I might actually be able to claim for the vetting too. This is because there was another potential buyer who was interested at the same time as all this was going on that the seller lied to. They told this person (on the evening day of the vetting) that they'd constantly been calling me and I hadn't replied, then had called them to say that I couldn't get the rest of the money..!! They then told the buyer that horse was in perfect health with just a few minor scars on her legs..!! This buyer has sent screenshots of the conversation and is willing to write a statement.
Person I spoke to about legal stuff says this could show an intention to deceive.  I don't know about any of that but because of the neice posting in the manner she has on here she will now be an unreliable witness to anything.
I have a witness statement, the vetting, the potential buyer statement, vet will also write a letter explaining the vet findings. Anything else I might need???
		
Click to expand...

Gin? (only because I would need it - I did not follow up on a mis sold horse once, but it was within 6 years so, according to the link I *could* follow up even now. But, I am for the easy life and have not. 

Seriously, I wish you luck.


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## Amymay (19 May 2019)

Speak to the BHS and see what they say.

Fraud is a very serious matter, I hope youâ€™re successful in claiming for the vetting too.

Great that you and the other potential purchaser are in touch.


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## wills_91 (19 May 2019)

Take it all the way and don't back down. I am so angry at the remarks made towards you & about your disability/financial situation ect..

Winter whatever if you are reading this - there has been no witch hunt towards the seller or the horse. If you care to look at other threads on this forum you will see that on many times longstanding members have been called out for misleading adverts. SLH herself has also taken a fair amount of criticism over horse choices ect it's not all tree hugging and fluffy bunnies on here!!

When slh posted that the horse would not be suitable the comments were all the same lines of "what a shame" & "walk away" slh has at no point slandered anyone. Return the deposit and be done with it.


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## Amymay (19 May 2019)

And we all played so nicely by not posting ðŸ˜ðŸ˜•ðŸ˜”


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## SatansLittleHelper (19 May 2019)

I should also add that because the seller admitted in front of me, the vet and my friend that they'd originally bought the horse to sell as they'd done a fair bit of dealing...going to Ireland several times a week in the past to buy horses to sell, that I may be able to claim under trading standards type law as dealing is classed as a business..??


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## SatansLittleHelper (19 May 2019)

amymay said:



			And we all played so nicely by not posting ðŸ˜ðŸ˜•ðŸ˜”
		
Click to expand...

I know, I hate the fact that it has come to this but I won't back down now. It's about the principle as much as the money. If I get awarded the vetting money too then the seller will be over Â£500 out of pocket if you take into account court costs, all for the sake of Â£200. I guess they must have very deep pockets, esp with their solicitors app tomorrow to sue me for "slander too" ðŸ¤”ðŸ™„


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## dogatemysalad (19 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I should also add that because the seller admitted in front of me, the vet and my friend that they'd originally bought the horse to sell as they'd done a fair bit of dealing...going to Ireland several times a week in the past to buy horses to sell, that I may be able to claim under trading standards type law as dealing is classed as a business..??
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps the tax man might like to know.


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## Amymay (19 May 2019)

They bought her to sell? I thought the advert says they bought her to hunt?


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## neddy man (19 May 2019)

I think (not positive) that you are classed as a dealer if you sell 8 or more a year by HMRC and subject to income tax on profits.


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## ycbm (19 May 2019)

Crikey, that's a turn up. You might as well add it to the claim, SLH, you've quite literally nothing to lose except a little bit of time and some emotional energy.


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## ycbm (19 May 2019)

neddy man said:



			I think (not positive) that you are classed as a dealer if you sell 8 or more a year by HMRC and subject to income tax on profits.
		
Click to expand...


Not so now NM. The last definition I had was that if you buy with the intention of selling at a profit, which this seller told SLH she did, then you are dealing.

I'm not sure where you got eight from, it was three everywhere I've lived.

In any case, the seller does not need to be a dealer for SLH to sue her for the return of her deposit or for misrepresenting the horse.
..


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## Pearlsasinger (19 May 2019)

neddy man said:



			I think (not positive) that you are classed as a dealer if you sell 8 or more a year by HMRC and subject to income tax on profits.
		
Click to expand...


Isn't it 3 horses per year?

ETA cross-posted with ycbm, when the system finally decided to allow me to post!


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## southerncomfort (19 May 2019)

Bang to rights I'd say!

How stupid she was not to just refund you.  Now she really is in an awful lot of trouble.


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## ycbm (19 May 2019)

Seller I have a new proposal for you.  Pay her Â£250 now, Â£200 deposit Â£25 small claim fee Â£25 compensation, and I'd bet my bottom dollar she'll stop that court case and go away. I have no connection with her, I don't even know her name. It genuinely seems to me to to be your best option right now.


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## Snitch (19 May 2019)

Go for it, SLH!  I deleted all of the â€˜bumpâ€™ photos Iâ€™d organised yesterday. So here, have a cat instead.


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## Snitch (19 May 2019)

ycbm said:



			Seller I have a new proposal for you.  Pay her Â£250 now, Â£200 deposit Â£25 small claim fee Â£25 compensation, and I'd bet my bottom dollar she'll stop that court case and go away. I have no connection with her, I don't even know her name. It genuinely seems to me to to be your best option right now.
		
Click to expand...

What a good idea!  I too donâ€™t know the OP, but I do know she should get her money back, plus costs.  Thatâ€™s what a court would judge, I would have thought.  The sellerâ€™s niece really did her no favours on here.  The more we learn, the more it all sounds woefully dodgy to me.


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## Flyermc (19 May 2019)

quite a negative advert, but i like this one

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/...sifieds/horses-livestock/horses-ponies?page=3


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## SatansLittleHelper (19 May 2019)

I will state, for the record and in the name of fairness, that they USED to deal, not anymore.
Apparently seller has an "equine barrister " friend who has told her that this thread is going to get me into deep trouble. 
I will state AGAIN: I have not personally identified the seller, I have not resorted to infantile name calling or called into question anyone mental health, I have not done/said anything illegal/untrue/abusive etc. 
All I want is my deposit back as seller was unable to supply the horse "with no health issues what so ever" that she advertised. I cannot seem to get her to understand that she is under legal obligation. She simply keeps repeating that she isn't obliged to return it, that I'm "hassling" and "being abusive ", and that I keep "putting crap all over the internet ".


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## Summit (19 May 2019)

SLH...I would stop posting here now as itâ€™s involving too many people and fueling the fire, itâ€™s not helping.  Donâ€™t bother making contact with the seller again, you have enough proof of the situation and Just proceed with the claim.  Good luck


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## Amymay (19 May 2019)

Ah, bless ðŸ˜ðŸ˜†ðŸ˜ƒðŸ˜†ðŸ˜


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## Amymay (19 May 2019)

Summit said:



			SLH...I would stop posting here now as itâ€™s involving too many people and fueling the fire, itâ€™s not helping.  Donâ€™t bother making contact with the seller again, you have enough proof of the situation and Just proceed with the claim.  Good luck
		
Click to expand...

Good advice. 

Update us when you can xxx


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## Snitch (19 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I will state, for the record and in the name of fairness, that they USED to deal, not anymore.
Apparently seller has an "equine barrister " friend who has told her that this thread is going to get me into deep trouble.
I will state AGAIN: I have not personally identified the seller, I have not resorted to infantile name calling or called into question anyone mental health, I have not done/said anything illegal/untrue/abusive etc.
All I want is my deposit back as seller was unable to supply the horse "with no health issues what so ever" that she advertised. I cannot seem to get her to understand that she is under legal obligation. She simply keeps repeating that she isn't obliged to return it, that I'm "hassling" and "being abusive ", and that I keep "putting crap all over the internet ".
		
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This is simply another futile attempt to intimidate you; donâ€™t fall for the bluff and bluster, OP. 
We all (mostly lay people, I believe) can see straight through this.  An equine Barrister would not advise that this thread is going to get you in deep trouble.  They tend to stick to the Law; not mud slinging.
ETA, just seen, no more posts on here.  Good luck, OP!


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## SatansLittleHelper (19 May 2019)

Summit said:



			SLH...I would stop posting here now as itâ€™s involving too many people and fueling the fire, itâ€™s not helping.  Donâ€™t bother making contact with the seller again, you have enough proof of the situation and Just proceed with the claim.  Good luck
		
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Thanks, you are probably right. It's just winding me up more anyway. I'll keep everyone posted xxx


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## paddy555 (19 May 2019)

neddy man said:



			I think (not positive) that you are classed as a dealer if you sell 8 or more a year by HMRC and subject to income tax on profits.
		
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it is neither 8 nor 3. There is no actual set number as to whether the activity is a trade for tax purposes.


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## Flyermc (19 May 2019)

this one looks nice aswell 

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/...ifieds/horses-livestock/horses-ponies?page=12


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## sky1000 (19 May 2019)

If you are a BHS member and can use their helpline, that would be a good idea.  From what you have said, what they were saying to the next possible buyer, was, obviously, untrue.  So they were trying to mislead the other buyer.  That makes it quite likely they were trying to trick you but doesn't prove it - it just proves they were trying to trick the other buyer.


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## Amymay (19 May 2019)

Flyermc said:



			this one looks nice aswell

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/119014384/16hh-blue-and-white-gelding.html?link=/classifieds/horses-livestock/horses-ponies?page=12

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ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±


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## Leo Walker (19 May 2019)

amymay said:



			ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±
		
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Thats one for the conformation thread!


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## Amymay (19 May 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			Thats one for the conformation thread!
		
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Isnâ€™t just, poor thing ðŸ˜•


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## AdorableAlice (19 May 2019)

Flyermc said:



			this one looks nice aswell

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/119014384/16hh-blue-and-white-gelding.html?link=/classifieds/horses-livestock/horses-ponies?page=12

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Which bit is nice ?

SLH - trading standards would give you guidance as well as BHS.


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## Cinnamontoast (19 May 2019)

Flyermc said:



			this one looks nice aswell

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/119014384/16hh-blue-and-white-gelding.html?link=/classifieds/horses-livestock/horses-ponies?page=12

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Whatâ€™s up with his back end?!


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## Elf On A Shelf (19 May 2019)

Cinnamontoast said:



			Whatâ€™s up with his back end?!
		
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And the front. And the bit inbetween! 

Although he does seem to have a nice outlook on life! Always got his ears forward!


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## Summit (19 May 2019)

Too many conflicting views on this forum....SLH will never find a horse at this rate


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## neddy man (19 May 2019)

To let the original thread die till SLH replies, why not start a new thread with "how about this one."?


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## Summit (19 May 2019)

neddy man said:



			To let the original thread die till SLH replies, why not start a new thread with "how about this one."?
		
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Totally agree


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## neddy man (19 May 2019)

And summit has kindly started one "Let's find a horse for SLH"


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## Goldenstar (20 May 2019)

neddy man said:



			I think (not positive) that you are classed as a dealer if you sell 8 or more a year by HMRC and subject to income tax on profits.
		
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Not quite true itâ€™s one of the things that might lead them to take the decision that you may be running a business.
For instance if I were to sell all my horses I would not be buisness because I do no economic activity that constitutes a business .
But a riding school could sell one horse and that would be a business activity .
I think it may well be the case that the owner of this horse is dealing .
In which case the advertisement was not at all honest .
Itâ€™s very true if you always tell the truth you donâ€™t need a good memory, if I recall correctly the ad for this horse said she was bought for hunting but not used because someone had a hip replacement , they told OP later that they dealt a few Irish horses .
You canâ€™t be someone whose had surgery left with a horse you donâ€™t need one day and a dealer a few days later .
Tbh that should have had OP heading for the hills before the vetting .


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## Goldenstar (20 May 2019)

Whoops sorry SLH just saw your post used to deal thatâ€™s quite different.


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## Goldenstar (20 May 2019)

AdorableAlice said:



			Which bit is nice ?
		
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Poor boy , he has not been blessed has he .
But he does look very very sweet


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## Red-1 (20 May 2019)

neddy man said:



			To let the original thread die till SLH replies, why not start a new thread with "how about this one."?
		
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I thought it was SLH who was not going to post anything else so she could not be accused of sayng the wrong thing. I don't think it was everyone else who had to stop posting.


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## ycbm (20 May 2019)

Flyermc said:



			this one looks nice aswell

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/119014384/16hh-blue-and-white-gelding.html?link=/classifieds/horses-livestock/horses-ponies?page=12

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Has everyone gone overboard on this one because SLH has had one they thought was ok fail the vet?  For the price, allowing for his age and obvious lack of muscle, and naff photos,  I think that's a fair enough horse who will look totally different at eight and make someone a good friend and lower level RC horse. Not SLH though, because I'd be surprised if he's 16 hands and any way he won't carry her weight yet.

..


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## Red-1 (20 May 2019)

ycbm said:



			Has everyone gone overboard on this one because SLH has had one they thought was ok fail the vet?  For the price, allowing for his age and obvious lack of muscle, and naff photos,  I think that's a fair enough horse who will look totally different at eight and make someone a good friend and lower level RC horse. Not SLH though, because I'd be surprised if he's 16 hands and any way he won't carry her weight yet.

..
		
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I thought that for the price, if he is a genuine chap, then he is a good purchase! If he were an inch bigger I may have been going to Merseyside (see, I was interested enough to have a look where he was!).


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## Mrs. Jingle (20 May 2019)

Red-1 said:



			I thought that for the price, if he is a genuine chap, then he is a good purchase! If he were an inch bigger I may have been going to Merseyside (see, I was interested enough to have a look where he was!).
		
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Actually I quite liked the look of him too!  - nothing much there to ring alarm bells that a good bit of correct consistent work might improve hugely IMO.  I think he could be a rather surprisingly nice looking cob in a couple of years. I do suspect he might be a tad younger than they are saying. But apart from that yes I have to admit I did quickly do some sums and checked was it worth a quick trip over on the ferry to just have a little peep at him


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## Goldenstar (20 May 2019)

ycbm said:



			Has everyone gone overboard on this one because SLH has had one they thought was ok fail the vet?  For the price, allowing for his age and obvious lack of muscle, and naff photos,  I think that's a fair enough horse who will look totally different at eight and make someone a good friend and lower level RC horse. Not SLH though, because I'd be surprised if he's 16 hands and any way he won't carry her weight yet.

..
		
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At any price I would not consider a horse built that croup high .
Now of course it could be a trick of the photo but I would not be driving to find out .


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## SpringArising (20 May 2019)

Goldenstar said:



			At any price I would not consider a horse built that croup high .
Now of course it could be a trick of the photo but I would not be driving to find out .
		
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Why not? Might not be the best type for lots of collection, but there's no reason a croup high horse wouldn't do the job of hacking and moving forwards nicely.


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## cobgoblin (20 May 2019)

The first photo is very unflattering... He doesn't look so croup high in the others. 
He doesn't look as though he's finished growing either.


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## Goldenstar (20 May 2019)

They can be very uncomfortable, prone to back problems when older , can be a nightmare to fiit saddles to as well and they can be always on their forehand and consequently wear their forelegs .


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## LaurenBay (20 May 2019)

Jesus SLH, what a drama for you, I am sorry that it didn't work out with this mare and I am even more sorry for how this has unfolded. Any decent person would have given the deposit back right away. It is possible that they did not know the Horse had issues, after all this is what vettings are for, but rather then apologising and handing the money back. They have chose to be very unpleasant and it must be very stressful for you.  I hope you get your money back OP and I hope the Horse can be helped with his medical issues and go to a lovely home.


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## JFTDWS (20 May 2019)

My downhill little QH is extremely comfortable and no harder to fit a saddle to than my natives.  She's not as extreme as that first photo looks, but I could probably take a photo of her that looks similar if I tried - I took one of her standing on a slope the other day which makes her look ludicrous!

(Disclaimer: she's actually very nice, for her type, other than being slightly downhill as you'd expect for a QH)


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## MotherOfChickens (20 May 2019)

I think he's cute and would like to see a decent side on photo-alot of natives are slightly croup high and yes, it doesnt help with saddle fitting. However, it looks like he still has some growing to do and is not up to weight.


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## ester (20 May 2019)

I feel a downhill v. croup high discussion coming on . They are not one and the same


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## ycbm (20 May 2019)

cobgoblin said:



			The first photo is very unflattering... He doesn't look so croup high in the others.
He doesn't look as though he's finished growing either.
		
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That's because he isn't that croup high. He is stood on rising ground.


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## cobgoblin (20 May 2019)

ycbm said:



			That's because he isn't that croup high. He is stood on rising ground.
		
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He could be on rising ground, I'm finding it hard to tell. 
That numnah boggles the eyes as well.. I thought he had a massive saddle at first.


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## SpringArising (20 May 2019)

While he's not my type, the more I look at him and read his advert, the more I like him.

There are a few things that aren't doing him justice - the saddle is too long in the back for him and sitting too far forward in the first pic, he's standing down hill, slightly camped out and close behind, he's weak, he could do with a good mane pull and those half-on-half-off feathers being clipped off. Mostly superficial.

I bet he doesn't need the shoes he's wearing and with some TCL and hill work would be a really sweet sort. Looking at the pic he's got a cracking jump as well.

Syndicate anyone?


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## MotherOfChickens (20 May 2019)

SpringArising said:



			While he's not my type, the more I look at him and read his advert, the more I like him.

There are a few things that aren't doing him justice - the saddle is too long in the back for him and sitting too far forward in the first pic, he's standing down hill, slightly camped out and close behind, he's weak, he could do with a good mane pull and those half-on-half-off feathers being clipped off. Mostly superficial.

I bet he doesn't need the shoes he's wearing and with some TCL and hill work would be a really sweet sort. Looking at the pic he's got a cracking jump as well.

Syndicate anyone?
		
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not my type either but for a 2.5k horse that has a pop, hacks alone, is good in traffic and is a popular type-well, there's been adverts linked to alot worse and had I been looking I would have enquired. I still think people are confused as to what the budget means, what the horse would be used for or forget that not everyone needs a horse that will do well in the show ring.


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## ycbm (20 May 2019)

A tip for looking at bad horse photos and buying a bargain no-one else can see in the photo.

Get a piece of  paper with a straight edge. Put it under the bottom of the horse's feet so it is stood just on the edge of the paper. Rotate your device until the paper is level, and then look at the horse.  

Tadaa!  Horse is 50% better than it was ðŸ¤—


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## little_critter (20 May 2019)

ycbm said:



			A tip for looking at bad horse photos and buying a bargain no-one else can see in the photo.

Get a piece of  paper with a straight edge. Put it under the bottom of the horse's feet so it is stood just on the edge of the paper. Rotate your device until the paper is level, and then look at the horse. 

Tadaa!  Horse is 50% better than it was ðŸ¤—
		
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Unless of course the horse genuinely has one leg shorter than the other...then you're screwed


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## ester (20 May 2019)

It is also important whether the photo is taken from the 'centre' of the horse. and that one half isn't closer to the camera than the other as rotation then won't work.


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## luckyoldme (20 May 2019)

There s a lot wrong with this thread.


Mahoganybay said:



			Iâ€™m not meaning to start an argument here, but can I just get something straight in my head.

OP, saw horse advertised, viewed and put Â£200 deposit down on horse to hold until vetting? Is this correct?

Seller did not let anyone view horse, therefore could have potentially lost a sale?

2 stage vetting held, vet did not fail the horse but suggested OP may have problems in the future? OP decided not to purchase horse?

Am I correct so far? Or have missed anything?

The seller initially refused to return deposit but is now blackmailing OP to remove this post and then she has agreed to refund?

But, and Iâ€™m not saying itâ€™s something I would do as I would refund the deposit, surely seller could argue that she has turned away potential sales, may have to pay to re-advertise, livery costs etc and is entitled to keep the deposit as the horse didnâ€™t â€˜failâ€™ the vetting?

I have never left a deposit on a horse myself, simply because vettings are not pass or fail anymore and Iâ€™m really sorry that the OP is out of pocket, but perhaps a lesson to be learned here fo us all.

OP I do hope you get your money back ðŸ¤žðŸ¤ž
		
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Yep but h and h is judge and jury therefore the seller is to be publicly hung drawn and quartered.  I cant express myself very well and of course the buyer should be refunded.. but the witch hunt mentality of this forum gets out of hand at times


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## SatansLittleHelper (20 May 2019)

Right in the interests of getting my money back asap I have contacted Admin to remove the thread. Everything has been screenshot Ted and will be put straight back up if the seller does not keep to her word, also that would look even worse for her.
ETA: I now have official confirmation that I DO have a case through court. The downside is that it can take a fair bit of time. Plus I don't like the person I am over all this. I just want my deposit back fairly.


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## KittenInTheTree (20 May 2019)

luckyoldme said:



			There s a lot wrong with this thread.

Yep but h and h is judge and jury therefore the seller is to be publicly hung drawn and quartered.  I cant express myself very well and of course the buyer should be refunded.. but the witch hunt mentality of this forum gets out of hand at times
		
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Agree.


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## SatansLittleHelper (20 May 2019)

KittenInTheTree said:



			Agree.
		
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So both of you stop posting , all you are doing is helping to keep the thread active while I'm trying to sort things out..!!!!


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## luckyoldme (20 May 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			So both of you stop posting , all you are doing is helping to keep the thread active while I'm trying to sort things out..!!!!
		
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Ouch that's me told ..will remember to agree wholeheartedly and unquestionly with anything you say in future


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## SatansLittleHelper (20 May 2019)

luckyoldme said:



			Ouch that's me told ..will remember to agree wholeheartedly and unquestionly with anything you say in future
		
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I think you may have taken my post the wrong way. I can appreciate you dont agree with things that have been said. What I meant (I didn't word it well sorry) is that posting keeps fetching the thread back up and I'm trying to allow the dust to settle somewhat so this can be sorted. I hope you understand.


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## FestiveFuzz (20 May 2019)

I don't mean to give this a bump but you may find you struggle to get this removed. Years ago now I was in a similar position, got very excited about a new horse only for him to end up with a huge question mark over him at the vetting that meant whilst he could do the job I wanted at the current time, the vet felt a year from then it may be a very different matter. I decided to walk away, but in my initial excitement had included a link to the ad and many pics of him, I'd even included his name in the title so the whole thing was very identifying! Years later that thread still exists despite several requests to remove it. Hopefully because of the pending court case they may be more obliging in this case, but I wouldn't hold your breath.


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## Lakeside1988 (10 July 2019)

I do hope this has been sorted now, unable to sleep and read whole thread in interest whilst looking for vetting advice. Thanks for sharing OP


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## J1993 (11 July 2019)

Any update - also just read whole thread!


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## Leo Walker (11 July 2019)

There is but I think SLH may be a bit wary about posting, particularly on this thread. I'll give her a prod though!


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## SatansLittleHelper (11 July 2019)

Hi guys, I'm not able to say much but be assured it's been sorted


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## AdorableAlice (11 July 2019)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Hi guys, I'm not able to say much but be assured it's been sorted 

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  special, rewarding days ahead.


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## ElectricChampagne (11 July 2019)

Great news. Hope everything is going ok.


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