# Would you shave a St Bernard?



## flurryjuno (13 November 2014)

Dog in question is matted and smells awful, owner wants to whip it all off and start a fresh. He's an indoor dog only goes outside for wees and poos and walked everyday. Yes or no?


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## cremedemonthe (13 November 2014)

Yes, someone round the corner from us had one years ago, it absolutely STANK worst smelling dog I have ever encountered.That would have benefited by being shaved,washed and fed decent grub to stop it smelling.


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## Equi (13 November 2014)

100% i would never have a st.bernard indoors without it being shaved it is just far too warm and they are a very smelly dog anyway.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 November 2014)

poor dog


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## flurryjuno (13 November 2014)

Bonkers2 said:



			poor dog
		
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Yes poor dog but not the owners fault, and she's trying to fix it.  To clarify by indoor I mean he has free access to the garden, walked once if not twice a day down to the beach for a kickabout but sleeps etc inside.`


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## MyBoyChe (13 November 2014)

If I thought the dog would be better for it, yes I would, definitely.  I know its not the same type of dog, but I once did the same to a rescue IWS.  He came to me with an awful coat, neglected, matted, smelly and quite sore skin. I had him clipped and shaved right back to almost nothing, bought him a good waterproof coat for outside walks until his own coat grew back.  His hair grew back beautifully, took a while but he was so much happier and healthier afterwards.


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## Honey08 (13 November 2014)

There was one at my college many moons ago when I did my AI.  He was constantly clipped and wandered round in the college sweatshirt.


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## bonny (13 November 2014)

I used to know someone who bred St Bernard's and they all lived outside. She wouldn't sell a pup to anyone who was planning on keeping it indoors and thought it was cruel to do so.


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## ace33 (14 November 2014)

Never and I have 2 that live indoors and do not smell any worse than the average dog, I find gundogs and hounds smell far worse. You can cause permanent damage to the coat even just clipping it once. The trick is to keep on top of brushing and bath regularly. Mine are bathed every 8 weeks and a high velocity dryer is used to blast the coat out whilst drying, if you haven&#8217;t got the equipment probably best to find a groomer that does.

You need a decent quality pin brush, I swear by my 16mm Chris Christensen T-Brush for good basic grooming.

Double coats protect against the heat as well as cold and I would say it's crueller keeping one outside in the summer when it is usually hotter outside than inside.

Why people buy dogs when they can't be bothered to put in the care is beyond me.


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## ace33 (14 November 2014)

Sent you a PM too...


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## ester (14 November 2014)

Has the dog seen a pro groomer to see if it is still matted and smells?


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## CorvusCorax (14 November 2014)

To me, shaving the dog would be a get out of jail free card, unless the owner is elderly or infirm etc.
I let my dog's coat slide a few years ago because he was a pain to groom, I just had to bite the bullet, make him stand, and use some elbow grease. It was my own fault and it was my job to sort out.
Five or ten minutes very night or every other night, going through the coat with a brush and checking for lumps, bumps and parasites, which can be hidden by a heavy coat, doesn't kill anyone, it's all the time you would take to drink a cup of tea and eat a biscuit and improves your bond with the dog. If people don't like/don't have time for grooming they shouldn't choose a coated breed.


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## flurryjuno (14 November 2014)

Thanks everyone! She has only recently got the dog and he was in this state so wants him comfortable ASAP, she doesn't want to shave him but wasn't sure what would be best for him. Will pass the info along


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## twiggy2 (14 November 2014)

ace33 said:



			You can cause permanent damage to the coat even just clipping it once. The trick is to keep on top of brushing and bath regularly.
		
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how does clipping the coat once cause permanent damage to the dogs coat?

OP I would clip it, if the dog is rescued then it may not tolerate night after night of grooming, there may be an underlying reason the dog is so smelly and grooming may make it sore/worse. I would possibly pay for the dog to be clipped, bathed and dried/trimmed by a professional, then if anything is going on under the coat it can be dealt with and regular grooming can begin on a clean short coat.

even if the coat was permanently damaged (I don't understand how that is possible) I don't supposed the dog will care, their coats are designed for living out in harsh weather and if he is inside or has access to inside he does not really need it


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## ester (14 November 2014)

It is because they are double coated no? and for a good while you will end up with just fuzzy undercoat rather than a proper coat. Either way I would certainly speak to a pro who can assess what is in front of them, sort some bits/clip the worst etc.


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## flurryjuno (14 November 2014)

ester said:



			Either way I would certainly speak to a pro who can assess what is in front of them, sort some bits/clip the worst etc.
		
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Sorry forgot to reply earlier, thats the plan.


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## twiggy2 (14 November 2014)

ester said:



			It is because they are double coated no? and for a good while you will end up with just fuzzy undercoat rather than a proper coat. Either way I would certainly speak to a pro who can assess what is in front of them, sort some bits/clip the worst etc.
		
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so not permanent then?


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## Wiz201 (14 November 2014)

Good brushing to get out the undercoat is essential, the owner should keep up to it every day. Shaving will just ruin the coat as he'll have no waterproof coating.


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## Umbongo (15 November 2014)

I know someone who used to foster a lot of Bernese Mountain dogs and St Bernards that would come from rescues. Most were clipped very short as a lot would come into the rescues very matted, wounds etc. They all grew their normal coat back with time.


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## blackcob (15 November 2014)

twiggy2 said:



			how does clipping the coat once cause permanent damage to the dogs coat?
		
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If it's a proper double coat then it never grows back quite the same way. I've met sibes who were previously clipped and though the fluffy undercoat grows back the top coat comes back in spiky and harsh. It doesn't matter in a pet or indoor dog I suppose but would affect the waterproofing properties of one that lives out. When first clipped they are also prone to sunburn!


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## PucciNPoni (16 November 2014)

This is a topic which is hotly debated amongst groomers too. 

If the coat is very matted and rank, then prolonged brushing actually contravenes the AWA.  But shaving it should not be a shortcut to hygiene.  These breeds have double coats to protect them from sun/rain/snow/heat/cold.  Taking that layer away does make them more vulnerable to that and other skin injuries.  But sometimes it's necessary, especially if there is a skin problem and you need to frequently bathe the dog in medicated shampoos.

I've clipped many double coated dogs and most of the time the coat comes back okay-ish.  But it depends largely on the management at home - if it's being brushed to stimulate the follicle and dragging out dead hair then you have better chance of good regrowth.  If you leave the coat alone between clippings, you're perhaps going to get that horrible coat funk.  Also, some dogs will have faster regrowth of undercoat which is soft and spongy and does not repel dirt or water as easily as the shiny hard shaft of top coat.  So they're more smelly because they're absorbing more crap in to the coat than it would if the coat was intact.  

If there is an underlying health condition (thyroid, cushings etc) then you might never get the coat to come back as it once was, but that may have changed over time anyway.


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## mynutmeg (16 November 2014)

what would people suggest to keep on top of my collie's back end - she gets matted down the back of her thighs and feathers - ideally I'd just brush her and we certainly used to but she's severely arthritic and brushing her appears to be painful for her as she's gone from tolerating it to, although she will let me do it, she makes it obvious shes very uncomfortable about it all. I don't let her get bad and she gets fairly regular baths but was wondering if there's anything I can use/do to help slow down the matting (she's a full coated collie)


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## twiggy2 (16 November 2014)

mynutmeg said:



			what would people suggest to keep on top of my collie's back end - she gets matted down the back of her thighs and feathers - ideally I'd just brush her and we certainly used to but she's severely arthritic and brushing her appears to be painful for her as she's gone from tolerating it to, although she will let me do it, she makes it obvious shes very uncomfortable about it all. I don't let her get bad and she gets fairly regular baths but was wondering if there's anything I can use/do to help slow down the matting (she's a full coated collie)
		
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personally I would clip her trousers or have them trimmed


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## PucciNPoni (16 November 2014)

Awww, the oldies / arthritic dogs in that case I would clip or scissor real short.  It won't look all that pretty.  If you still want the look of the trousers you could have it trimmed really short from between her legs and leave hair visible from the side.  But if she's not happy to be brushed any more, I'd just clip it.


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## ace33 (17 November 2014)

twiggy2 said:



			how does clipping the coat once cause permanent damage to the dogs coat?

OP I would clip it, if the dog is rescued then it may not tolerate night after night of grooming, there may be an underlying reason the dog is so smelly and grooming may make it sore/worse. I would possibly pay for the dog to be clipped, bathed and dried/trimmed by a professional, then if anything is going on under the coat it can be dealt with and regular grooming can begin on a clean short coat.

even if the coat was permanently damaged (I don't understand how that is possible) I don't supposed the dog will care, their coats are designed for living out in harsh weather and if he is inside or has access to inside he does not really need it
		
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ester said:



			It is because they are double coated no? and for a good while you will end up with just fuzzy undercoat rather than a proper coat. Either way I would certainly speak to a pro who can assess what is in front of them, sort some bits/clip the worst etc.
		
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blackcob said:



			If it's a proper double coat then it never grows back quite the same way. I've met sibes who were previously clipped and though the fluffy undercoat grows back the top coat comes back in spiky and harsh. It doesn't matter in a pet or indoor dog I suppose but would affect the waterproofing properties of one that lives out. When first clipped they are also prone to sunburn!
		
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Basically as above, the coat will lose it's texture and protection, I have seen dog's coats ruined after one clip so if possible it's best to avoid it. I tried to put up a pic of a berner who's coat was ruined after one clip but can't.

With a good quality brush the dog will enjoy grooming mine queue up to be brushed everyday and it literally takes me about 2 mins per dog to give them a quick flick over. Granted they have been trained from a young age to stand to be brushed and this dog possibly hasn't.


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## ace33 (17 November 2014)

Also, when the coat is growing back in after clipping the soft undercoat will probably been prone to matting and collect alot of dirt without the protection so you'll really need to keep ontop of grooming to avoid it becoming a cycle.


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## CorvusCorax (17 November 2014)

Mine didn't like getting groomed for no other reason than that he is a berk. As I decided that getting brushed is non-negotiable, we came to an agreement!!!! And he does seem to quite enjoy it now.


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## ace33 (17 November 2014)

CorvusCorax said:



			Mine didn't like getting groomed for no other reason than that he is a berk. As I decided that getting brushed is non-negotiable, we came to an agreement!!!! And he does seem to quite enjoy it now.
		
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Haha, they all have their moments, my nearly 10yo terrier has decided she no longer likes having her nails clipped and wiggles around whereas she used to stand still and it took a few seconds. she has never been quicked or anything, strange.


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## PucciNPoni (17 November 2014)

ace33 said:



			Haha, they all have their moments, my nearly 10yo terrier has decided she no longer likes having her nails clipped and wiggles around whereas she used to stand still and it took a few seconds. she has never been quicked or anything, strange.
		
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Perhaps a touch of arthritis.  Wouldn't be terribly unheard of in a 10 year old dog.  

My border is 13, and he's not particularly keen and used to stand fine.  Sometimes with age they do lose the patience - and some just go a bit senile.  Grooming oldies does take a different skill set then grooming younger dogs.


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## Equi (17 November 2014)

I'm so glad i have short single coat dogs lol


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## puppystitch (20 November 2014)

My dad does my oldie lurcher's nails with an electric sander - I'm sure very frowned upon but she hates the clippers, whereas when she sees the sander come out she presents paws!


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