# Eskadron control headcollar



## {97702} (27 November 2017)

Has anyone used one?  Any thoughts or experiences?  I am wondering about one instead of a stallion chain after a google search


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## DirectorFury (27 November 2017)

Mine can be a pig to load and I've had great success with the 'Be Nice' headcollar in the past. The Le Mieux control headcollar (which I think is the same as the Eskadron one?) just made her stroppier!


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## ihatework (27 November 2017)

It&#8217;s the same as a stallion chain, just cheaper to buy the chain and put on your own headcollar


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## {97702} (27 November 2017)

ihatework said:



			It&#8217;s the same as a stallion chain, just cheaper to buy the chain and put on your own headcollar
		
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I understood that the stallion chain was just wrapped around the nose (like I would do with a lead rope) and could possibly fall off, whereas with one of these it is integral to the headcollar?


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## ihatework (27 November 2017)

No, you fit it almost exactly the same as the eskadron


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## The Fuzzy Furry (27 November 2017)

Sent you pm Levrier


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## Britestar (27 November 2017)

I run the chain through the rings to keep it in place. Clip lead rope to it when needed, otherwise clip chain to itself when not required.


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## Fun Times (27 November 2017)

I rate mine. Had it years. The chain rusts a bit as it gets left by the field entrance. On the odd occassion my big lad has lost the plot (like.when the hunt have come past) it has made all the difference. Obviously not safe to tie up in though.


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## {97702} (28 November 2017)

Ah awesome thanks all - sorry, Ive never used a stallion chain hence my confusion! But youve been really helpful, much appreciated


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## SmallSteps (28 November 2017)

I like the ones with an integral lead rein - like this http://www.go-equestrian.com/horse-...3/jhl-comfort-web-lead-rein-with-chain-p3987/

I tend to just slip it under the headcollar cheekpiece above noseband, over nose and clip to far side, then unclip and slip off once loaded/sorted. I tend to leave the regular leadrope on and use the stallion chain to back it up, like the handling equivalent of spurs or a schooling whip, but I really think that's just me being weird lol


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## nikkimariet (29 November 2017)

I used the Lemieux one on Nova when he was being a prat. Should put it away actually it's collecting dust in the wash box bless him.

They are much less of a faff than fitting your own chain. And means anyone can just put it on if needed (I could never explain to my Dad how to put a stallion chain on!).


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## JillA (29 November 2017)

If you are going to use a chain with one of your own headcollars, make sure it can be free running. I had some where the fittings on the headcollar has a nasty little corner that caught the chain in it - the whole idea is that it releases freely when the pressure goes


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## Madali (30 November 2017)

It changed my life. I only now use it on occasions when I know she is going to be a beast.
I don&#8217;t even need to actually even put the lead rein on it most of the time as she knows she has it on. I now just slip it over her normal head collar to load. I then take it off. Job jobbed 
There is something about the chain that galavanises her into behaving. Much better than a chivney or anything else.


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## AengusOg (1 December 2017)

Madali said:



			There is something about the chain that galavanises her into behaving.
		
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It'll be the fear of pain.


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## Fun Times (1 December 2017)

AengusOg said:



			It'll be the fear of pain.
		
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Yes terrible - far better to let ourselves get yarked around by 500kg of over excited horse.


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## AengusOg (2 December 2017)

Fun Times said:



			Yes terrible - far better to let ourselves get yarked around by 500kg of over excited horse.
		
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Far better to train.


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## SmallSteps (2 December 2017)

AengusOg said:



			Far better to train.
		
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I know, I know, I know, you should never feed a troll, but the benefit of anyone that might be browsing this forum here's one counter-view:

If you have a cob, TB, amateur-friendly WB or similar then for sure you're likely able to load it on good groundwork alone, regardless of its mood on the day or whether it wants to be on the box. That's great.
If you have a stallion or similarly dominant individual DO NOT EVER decline a piece of safety equipment on the basis that you think that this shows a gap in your groundwork or training. It is literally against the BS rules to have a stallion or similarly strong-willed horse on the grounds of any BS show without a stallion chain on (when unmounted). Do not get anyone kicked in the head showing how in control you are without gadgets.

As it happens my last stallion was the quietest, easiest individual known to man, still wore a chain because rules but also because I'd only have to be wrong once. I've never seen a horse object to having a chain put on.


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## Fun Times (2 December 2017)

AengusOg said:



			Far better to train.
		
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Damn it, I never thought of that. I wonder do you think the hunt will pop past at my request so I can train my horse not to get excited by them being next to his yard?

Edited to add - should I start off asking for the whole pack of hounds and full field of followers or maybe just get my friend to run up and down wearing a red coat and blowing a trumpet? My friend has a beagle I could borrow that. Any other top tips welcome.


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## fburton (2 December 2017)

It seems wise to use an Eskadron control headcollar when the hunt is in the vicinity.


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## C1airey (2 December 2017)

A friend uses the Eskadron chain halter on her cob.  It works.  If I had to be picky, I'd say it can be a bit of a faff to put on (especially in the dark, with frozen fingers and a horse eager to come in), but you'll soon develop a knack for it.  As someone said above, it's a more user-friendly option if someone else has to bring in for you.  In my experience, even when the chain is rusted a bit, it still releases once the horse stops pulling.  The headcollar is well made too: I wondered if the tabs holding the chain in place might break after a while, but hers has lasted years.


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## AengusOg (2 December 2017)

Fun Times said:



			Damn it, I never thought of that. I wonder do you think the hunt will pop past at my request so I can train my horse not to get excited by them being next to his yard?

Edited to add - should I start off asking for the whole pack of hounds and full field of followers or maybe just get my friend to run up and down wearing a red coat and blowing a trumpet? My friend has a beagle I could borrow that. Any other top tips welcome.
		
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I had a wee peek at your other posts...I think the hunt may be the least of your problems.
I'm just saying I would rather have a well trained horse than one which behaved through fear of consequences.


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## Fun Times (2 December 2017)

AengusOg said:



			I had a wee peek at your other posts...I think the hunt may be the least of your problems.
I'm just saying I would rather have a well trained horse than one which behaved through fear of consequences.
		
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Crikey, I feel honoured at the effort!


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## {97702} (2 December 2017)

Fun Times said:



			Damn it, I never thought of that. I wonder do you think the hunt will pop past at my request so I can train my horse not to get excited by them being next to his yard?

Edited to add - should I start off asking for the whole pack of hounds and full field of followers or maybe just get my friend to run up and down wearing a red coat and blowing a trumpet? My friend has a beagle I could borrow that. Any other top tips welcome.
		
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LOL we had a joint meet at our yard on Monday - I didn't realise until I saw the pics on Facebook - I am guessing from the complete lack of stable trashing J wasn't bothered at all!

Similarly he was clipped today and actually was falling asleep while he was being clipped, it really looked like he had been sedated! 

But the trailer seems to evoke 'stubborn and static' cob - he isn't frightened, just awkward, but if you try and push him in he turns into stroppy bargy cob!!  So looking for something to influence without the need for a fight - as there is a stallion chain on the yard that I can try, I will try that first and if successful I think I will go for a Eskadron

Thanks to all for the feedback, other than the trolls


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## fredflop (2 December 2017)

AengusOg said:



			I had a wee peek at your other posts...I think the hunt may be the least of your problems.
I'm just saying I would rather have a well trained horse than one which behaved through fear of consequences.
		
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Thats what the majority of training horses is about... negative reinforcement. You ask for go quicker, you squeeze the horse. You train him that if he doesnt go on that squeeze hes likely to get a bigger kick or a whip...


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## fburton (3 December 2017)

Lévrier;13681004 said:
			
		


			But the trailer seems to evoke 'stubborn and static' cob - he isn't frightened, just awkward, but if you try and push him in he turns into stroppy bargy cob!!  So looking for something to influence without the need for a fight - as there is a stallion chain on the yard that I can try, I will try that first and if successful I think I will go for a Eskadron
		
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Given that your cob is basically sane and cooperative most of the time (I would assume), I do think there is scope for training here. Is there some way you can use the advantage that a control headcollar would undoubtedly give you to work towards _not_ having to use it? I feel these kind of gadgets are like a crutch. Don't get me wrong - crutches can be really helpful, even essential in some situations, but in the long run I think it's better not to have to rely on them. Plus, it's comforting to know they're there if you really need them.


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## fburton (3 December 2017)

fredflop said:



			Thats what the majority of training horses is about... negative reinforcement. You ask for go quicker, you squeeze the horse. You train him that if he doesnt go on that squeeze hes likely to get a bigger kick or a whip...
		
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I agree that most training of horses involves negative reinforcement - but are you talking about negative reinforcement or punishment here? It sounds like you mean the latter, since you are referring to the _consequence_ of his non-action. Sorry if I have misunderstood.


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## AengusOg (3 December 2017)

fredflop said:



			Thats what the majority of training horses is about... negative reinforcement. You ask for go quicker, you squeeze the horse. You train him that if he doesnt go on that squeeze hes likely to get a bigger kick or a whip...
		
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Nope. That's not how negative reinforcement works at all.


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## FlashyP (8 December 2017)

fburton said:



			Given that your cob is basically sane and cooperative most of the time (I would assume), I do think there is scope for training here. Is there some way you can use the advantage that a control headcollar would undoubtedly give you to work towards _not_ having to use it? I feel these kind of gadgets are like a crutch. Don't get me wrong - crutches can be really helpful, even essential in some situations, but in the long run I think it's better not to have to rely on them. Plus, it's comforting to know they're there if you really need them.
		
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Have to agree with this, and possibly a place for positive reinforcement training/clicker training here, especially if you have a food motivated cob  I find negative reinforcement generally works really well for many things, until it comes to training a behaviour that the horse finds particularly aversive, and trailer loading is a good example of this for a number of horses.  So if a horse is excessively worried about the trailer (and for the 'quieter' types planting can be how their worry manifests), then negative reinforcement can easily escalate into positive punishment and sometimes a big fight and the horse still not loading and ideally you want your horse happy and easy to load. Might be worth a try if the stallion chain doesn't help. Good luck.


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