# Menage help, advice and surface options/costs



## I_A_P (30 September 2009)

Would really appreciate some replies please!

We are looking to build our own 20x40m menage hopefully sometime next year and i would like some help please!  Unfortunately it can not be any bigger due to cost and lack of grazing.

We have already had out field drained and extra drains put in where the menage will go (all planned by someone who has constructed several menages)

We are hoping the person who did the drains will be able to give us a bit of advice to do the rest as dad will be planning to do the majority of the work himself.

Originally the plan was to go for silica and rubber...but now leaning towards the idea of Clopf as i have head good things about it. 
We are going to be on a budget and it will be just the one horse using the surface fairly regularly.


Does anyone have names of suppliers where they got thier materials from including limestone/membranes/silica sands/rubber or other surfaces from?
or has anyone used specific companies which they found were very good?

Anyone built their menage themselves and how did it work out on costs...have you got any tips?

Any general advice/information would be really helpful.  I am going to start asking a  few companies for samples of surfaces as well.

Any surfaces that are worth avoiding  as well?

Thank you- im sure i will have further questions as well!


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## kerilli (30 September 2009)

are you in a really windy spot? if so i'd be wary of Clopf, and go for something that won't get picked up by the wind. i'm going to have to top mine up with heavier rubber pieces as the Springride Shred that i used, though great, is just too light and is being blown away. 
	
	
		
		
	


	












some of the best silica sand in the country comes from Leziate quarry (just outside Kings Lynn), you have to book first (can't just turn up to collect as at most quarries) as you have to get in line behind all the Charles Britton lorries, my guys told me...   worth knowing, as great sand is the key, and delivery charges can really affect prices.
i can fish out my file of suppliers etc i used, and post later, gotta go now!


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## MillionDollar (30 September 2009)

Ours is rubber and silica sand, and it is fab everyone loves it. We got really good quality sand and the rubber is from Spring-Tek which has a bit of foam in it which retains water and gives it extra spring.........













Horses on it............







Have heard good/bad things about Clopf. Mainly that it is fab for first year but then deteriorates quite quickly. I went to see an arena which had been down for 18 months and it was awful. Firm in some places and then very very deep in others. Owner told me he was going to replace with sand and rubber  
	
	
		
		
	


	





If I could afford a wax surface I'd have one every time as when you get weather like we're having now the arena has to be soaked with sprinklers once a week as it gets just a bit loose for jumping. Otherwise it is fab. And I'll def get a wax surface for my indoor  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 not that thats gonna happen soon, haha.

So my advice is.....

Make sure your drianage is good

Get quality silica sand

Stay well away from anything wood

Maintain the arena reguklarly, and always pick up poo


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## MillionDollar (30 September 2009)

Forgot to say costs....

Surface for our 60 x 40 was £25,000 in total.

Wax one would have been £60,000


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## I_A_P (30 September 2009)

That would be great if you could please Kerilli.  I have a sample of the springride shred at home already - i was not sure if it was a little bit flat though - im asking for more samples form other places so i can compare them!  

I would not say we are too windy- our paddock is fairly sheltered and to one side of the arena we have a a high fir tree hedge - and the other 2 sides are hedged and their is a spini area of trees to the other side.  So hopefully we are fairly protected.  I had not really thought about that too much before though, i was more worried about the sand - so thankyou.

Also handy that the silica comes from Kings Lynn - not too far- luckily we may have someone who will be able to haul it in for us - which may keep costs down slightly.  Do you have any idea of what it cost you from there per ton Kerilli?

_Claire_  -I have just requested a sample from Sping-Tek 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Interesting what you say about Clopf - we don't really want to be placing it that soon!

Im hoping my drainage is good- we went to see a place up the road which the same chap had done and they were really pleased with theirs and it been downabout 18months or so.  We need to level the site yet as it grassed over (stone to the surface though).

I will have to from home to dad about quality of the silica- he wanted to use beach sand 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  I dispair!

Definately not having woodchip as have used a few which are dreadful!

Thank you 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Both of you have given me some good hints!


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## I_A_P (30 September 2009)

_Claire_  Did you do some of it yourself or did you have a company construct it for you?  That is a big difference for waxed- definately won't be getting a waxed surface!


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## MillionDollar (30 September 2009)

Our local contractor did ours, who has built numerous arenas, who also built my whole yard. Think total spend on our arena was £60,000, which also includes fencing, full set of jumps and floodlights.


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## I_A_P (30 September 2009)

Looks like the did a great job!  Thanks for your help


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## millitiger (30 September 2009)

my stepdad constructs maneges for people as a job.

we are the other side of the country so can't really help with suppliers etc but a rubber and sand with 5ft post and rail fencing costs around £10-12k to build depending on ground conditions.


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## Chloe_GHE (30 September 2009)

I used to work for a major arena surface supplier 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 and these are the main points they stressed about a good surface...

- invest in good sand, you cannot put good sand on top of bad to rectify an initial mistake.

Cheap sand (builders sand) has regular sized grains which means they slip and slide over each other this means when a horse works on it, it's foot moves the sand and creates a hole. you need to work on top of an arena not into it.

Silica sand (or good quality sand) has irregular sized particles which mean they knit and mesh together allowing a stable surface to be created for the horse to work happily on top of it.

Organic surfaces do not work well eg wood, and this applies to also letting too much organic matter eg poo build up in your arena, as organic material retains water and so doesn't help with freezing in bad weather conditions.

Kickboards - esential to stop your surface 'wandering'

Lots of companies (inc the one I worked for many moons ago) sell off their slag heap which is a collection of trial mixes and end of orders at a discount rate and I think it would be well worth contacting them about this.

Most of all drainage and levelness are key, I would measure and remeasure with a level your base as much as possible as once the surface is laid it's a pain to scrap it off and correct. Our school has a slope on it, and it's a double edged sword it means our horses are balanced and used to going on a slight slope so don't have an issue at events with arenas on the side of a hill, but when we got a builder out to measuer it with a level we were really shocked to see it was a 4ft drop from A to C!!!! It was put in many years ago with naff sand and bad drains and has had lots of revamping as a result!


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## kate081 (30 September 2009)

Wow! How nice is your school?!


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## miller (30 September 2009)

Can give you the name of a local (depending on where in East Anglia you are) contractor who's work is excellent - builf our stables and done lots of work for friends  
	
	
		
		
	


	





He has an arena at his house he built which you could see first. 

Agree on Sand / Rubber - personally would go rubber chunks as I don't like the ride the strips give 

We are in a windy location and ours has been in for just under 4 years and still like new with 2 horses using it - never yet had a puddle. Think it was £18k 20 x 50 (diff contractor though to the one I mentioned above)


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## I_A_P (30 September 2009)

Chloe_GHE - thank you thats very helpful.

Dad is quite handy with a digger so hopefully if he can borrow a laser level we should be able to sort this (i hope).  Our field is not sloping but it is far from level!

We already have one side of fencing up ( had to take the old one out to do the drains so needed to put it up to keep the horses in the field!  Luckily dad is swapping doing some work for a neighbour for him to put up the arena fence.  We already have our posts, rails and kickboards 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Miller- thats interesting about the strip rubber/chunks.  I got one sample of some chunks the other day but they were very hard started leaning towards to strip- mind you thats just one companies sample so might see something better yet!


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## ESH (30 September 2009)

Have replied to your post in Stable Yard


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## I_A_P (30 September 2009)

ESH- thank you


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## henryhorn (30 September 2009)

We have built two, one years ago with river sand, this one with jacksons rubber shred, and a mixture of sea sand and silica sand. (so don't despair re your Dad's suggestion, our surface is superb!).
We had silica sand in the indoor arena mixed with woodchip. It was vile, deep in the corners and eventually we found all the woodchip had disintegrated to dust with use. When it came to building a 20 x 60 my husband was determined to get it right as a result.
There are some tips for building on Jackson's site, but basically you must make sure it's well drained and if on a slope, add a drain above the arena on the sloping side, we used that yellow squidgy pipe with holes in it. 
Our arena has a three feet fall on it from one end to the other, that means it drains perfectly and is usable in even heavy rain. The membrane is of the same quality they build roads with, bought direct from the manufacturers' . You must overlap it loads, then sew or glue it to it's neighbouring piece. Make sure you go well under the retaining pieces of wood or sleepers with it too.
When you add your surface you mustn't leave the membrane exposed to the sun for more than a day or two, and don't allow anyone to drive on it, they have to tip from the gate then push it inwards. 
Ours including post and rail cost £13k including the surface, we used Padstow sea sand/silica/rubber mix  as I said, because having tested numerous mixes in containers outside for weeks to see how they stood up to rain etc, that mix gave a firm but slightly bouncy feel. Dressage trainers have all asked what it is and said it feels almost like gel track to ride on.
If you want to be bothered searching there are lots of pics from a couple of years ago on my old blog www.narramorehorses.blogspot.com, if you look in the index on the side it should be possible to find all the pics, from clearing the site to the finished arena.


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## I_A_P (30 September 2009)

HenryHorn- thank you very much for that its very useful.  I have discovered the Jacksons site and that is also helpful.

I shall have a look on your blog


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## jellybaby (30 September 2009)

I am based at a yard where we have superb surfaces, and I am a very lucky girl! Both arenas have a mix of silica sand and rubber, which ride just beautifully, not too deep, nor not too hard.

However, one thing that I have discovered is that maintenance of the surface is key. My YO is brill and she makes sure that the arenas are harrowed pretty much every day, and in the summer they are also watered and rolled. I think I am on the best DIY livery yard in the world!!

Here's a vid of a horse jumping on it, so you can see the 'spring' and how deep we have the surface.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGsb9x3yov4

Good LUCK!!

JB xx

JB xx


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## I_A_P (30 September 2009)

Jellybaby- thanks for that - i will definately keep mine looked after


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## daisybe33 (30 September 2009)

Henryhorn, why shouldn't you leave the membrane out. It has taken me 6 days to sew mine together (4 x 40m strips) so it has been in the sun all that time yikes, i'm worried now.


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## madhector (30 September 2009)

Come over and ride on mine, give you a chance to see what you think of the clopf. This is it finished...


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## ajn1610 (30 September 2009)

We have clopf and it is ace, followed the Martin Collins recommendations as to combination/amount of substrate and sand. It was a little deep when it first went down but settled after a couple of weeks and is lovely now, everyone who comes comments on how nicely it rides and it just needs harrowing every now and again, so it's easy to look after.  
We had a local company do the instillation due to time frame but MC quote was very competitive. I would recommend them they were very easy to deal with.


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## I_A_P (30 September 2009)

Thanks Madhector - thank you , im just want to try and keep an open mind at the moment and figure out my options - especially as it is not me paying for it i want to get it 100% right on a tight budget!.  Will pm you when i am free one day 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 riding on it would be great - thankyou 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Is yours 20 x40 or is it bigger?  it looks massive!

ajn1610 - that is good thankyou 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 i have got some brochures from MC and the cost seems fairly reasonable!


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## madhector (30 September 2009)

it is 20x40, just looks huge in that pic for some reason!


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## I_A_P (30 September 2009)

i thought it was but it looked massive!

Shall be in touch!


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## daisycrazy (1 October 2009)

From time to time you hear people say that they managed to get their arena surface "second hand" - often a fantastic surface that has been used at a temporary event (Olympia? Your Horse Live?) and then they have to move the surface. Might be worth finding out about the next few events where that might be happening and contacting the organisers or the company supplying the surface... Just a thought!

We built our arena ourselves but got the surface excluding sand from Trackright, who were really helpful and happy to advise on arena construction. Ours didn't have post and rail, which I much preferred, just kickboards, which made it much cheaper and less labour intensive. Does horses good when they're in the middle of a schooling session to suddenly find themselves out of the arena and cantering in the field!


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## adelaide1 (9 February 2010)

Hi,
I have read your message and was just wondering if you would be kind enough post some information on the suppliers you used when constructing your arena?

Particularly where Charles Brittion sources their materials. I would love to use this company but their prices are just too high.

Can anyone recomend where I can source synthetic rubber stripps for the surface at a reasonable price?

Many thanks


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## SARAH1968 (20 March 2010)

i am hoping to have a Trackright surface put down, Does anyone know if there still trading ive not spoken to them since January and now cant get hold of anyone and the website has gone, HELP


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