# Stressed



## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (8 October 2013)

When i got Prince in august i advertised my mare for full loan, the part time loan at the time said she would happily take her on for a year and asked me to take the advert down. So i put all of my money and time into getting prince healthy again. I don't make much and work double full time shifts to pay for it. 2 months in her loan asks to buy her, but for £1000 less than what shes worth, i said no. She says okay, no worries. You can guess what happened next.
2 months later my mare has lami, an unpaid livery bill, no hay and loan has rented another field and bought a horse to put in it, beside mine. Lovely. 
Im aware that its no ones fault but mine really but its left me with a terrible choice.

One has to go.

I cannot afford two livery bills aswell as prince's large feed bill and her treatment for lami. I have no idea what to do. This has all been dumped on me today.

Do i sell my young riding horse for a fast buck and keep a retired veteran?
Find a home for Prince?
Put Prince to sleep?

I simply don't know, its not immediately urgent but i cant keep both for long.  

No really point but i needed a rant as I'm so confused.


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## be positive (8 October 2013)

I have followed your story with Prince and the difference you have made to his life you do not deserve this to happen, not sure what advice to offer but just think your loaner has acted very badly and hope she helps put things right, she certainly should not be leaving your mare in that state and you footing the bill did she not have insurance for vets bills as they should be covered.
Whatever you decide you have given Prince a chance to enjoy life in a way he had not known don't feel bad if he is the one to go.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (8 October 2013)

Your username made me smile. I hold kyras insurance, i never stopped that but i dont think this is going to be big enough to make a claim, just irritating as she isnt prone to lami, but her weight has balloned.


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## Clodagh (8 October 2013)

You need to be cold blooded and think what you want. Try not to think what anyone else wants!
If you have Prince PTS he has had a lovely autumn of his life with you, he looks fantastic and it won't worry him in the least. You could then keep your horse you can ride.
That is what I would do, if you keep Prince and get rid of your riding horse - for peanuts probably, this time of year - you will be taking a huge step back for yourself, IMO.


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## pansy (8 October 2013)

I'm afraid I have no advice to offer but feel for you - I have not read all  of the posts about Prince but you have been dong a great job & it's going  to be a hard decision (hugs) - just a quick thought as I'm writing this & don't  know if it could be  an option - do you know anyone that want a companion for a while ??


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## Amymay (8 October 2013)

Lord what a mess. You simply can't allow Prince to be let down again.


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## Amymay (8 October 2013)

Jess contact EMW, they may be able to help with Prince. Pm me and I'll get their details to you.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (8 October 2013)

Im going to try a few options. I will offer part loan for the mare when she is well, that will cover her livery.
I will not let him down. If he found a home it would be on a permanent loan to a place i could trust, visit, have picture updates ect.
Im angry for no reason. I took him on, its my problem, i shouldnt have laid eveything on someones word.
I love Prince, i do, more than my mare but i let her down too, shes young, impressionable and now lame, fat and unfit.


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## Ranyhyn (8 October 2013)

no advice but what crappy luck for you.


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## putasocinit (8 October 2013)

She could also end up like Prince


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## its_noodles (8 October 2013)

special hugs...


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## WelshRuby (8 October 2013)

Oh Jess I could cry for you. I'm so sorry, just what you do NOT need. Lots of hugs, for you, your mare and Prince.


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## Echo Bravo (8 October 2013)

But surely the loaner is liable for the livery bill, so get the yard to send it to her as the mare was on loan to her, things are always different when you have slept on it and think things through.


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## Lynsey&Smartie (8 October 2013)

What a nightmare for you, it's a really hard decision I don't know what I would do TBH. If I could manage it financially probably get a sharer for the mare and then you still get to ride her as well as looking after Prince who seems to mean a lot to you, if not then you have a really difficult choice to make.


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## Clodagh (8 October 2013)

putasocinit said:



			She could also end up like Prince
		
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TBH overweight to the point of lami is as cruel as the state Prince was in.


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## Sussexbythesea (8 October 2013)

What a nightmare especially after all your hard work I'm gutted for you  .  If other options fail Prince has a great backstory and a following on here - maybe one of the charities might be able to help as would be good PR especially if we could all donate or something in his name?


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## texas (8 October 2013)

Get your mare sound again then find her a new loaner.

Btw, from experience,  even if you don't claim for lami, it'll still be excluded at renewal as treatment was received for it. So you might as well claim, every little helps!


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## zigzag (8 October 2013)

How bad is the lami? You can't make a decision till you know how bad it is and what effect it has? Plus the mare will be sold for peanuts if she has had lami


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## Adopter (8 October 2013)

So sorry what a horrible thing to happen, you do not deserve this when you have done so much.  
Sending hugs.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (8 October 2013)

zigzag said:



			How bad is the lami? You can't make a decision till you know how bad it is and what effect it has? Plus the mare will be sold for peanuts if she has had lami
		
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The vet didnt say how bad it was. Just to bute and boxrest for 10 days then slowly introduce grass. Needless to say she was in for 10 days until yesterday. I went up the yard an hour ago and she had been put out into the acre field. All the hay and feed has been taken. Shes got nothing.



WelshRuby said:



			Oh Jess I could cry for you. I'm so sorry, just what you do NOT need. Lots of hugs, for you, your mare and Prince.
		
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I've done enough crying for everyone on this forum.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (9 October 2013)

Just updating you.
Rspca have returned, good but not good enough was the verdict. They want the vet back to decided whether he is put to sleep or not. Id like to add this is nothing to do with my financial situation, but a pre planned visit by the rspca. Vet will call me later and probably visit next wednesday.


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## Amymay (9 October 2013)

On what possible grounds do they think he should be put to sleep???


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## Adopter (9 October 2013)

Oh Jess, what a terrible week for you, of course he is not good enough yet, you cannot undo years of malnourishment and neglect in a few weeks.

Hopefully your vet will be supportive in helping make the right decision.

Sending hugs


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (9 October 2013)

Not enough weight gain in the month since the last vet check. The vet will decide whether to sign him off of their records or pts on the rspcas orders. Its just a matter of how much he weighs on the day. Vet is going to call me back and explain it better and i will post what she says, the rspca also said they have left a note so il take a pic of that when i finish work.


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## Amymay (9 October 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			Not enough weight gain in the month since the last vet check. The vet will decide whether to sign him off of their records or pts on the rspcas orders. Its just a matter of how much he weighs on the day. Vet is going to call me back and explain it better and i will post what she says, the rspca also said they have left a note so il take a pic of that when i finish work.
		
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Really?  I'm amazed.  Looking at your blog the horse shows massive improvement between the beginning and end of September.  

The RSPCA can't order the horse to be put to sleep - only suggest to your vet that it may be a course of action to consider.

I'm staggered.


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## doriangrey (9 October 2013)

But you've done wonders for Prince, why on earth would they suggest that, what's wrong with them?!  It takes time for improvement, he's not going to bounce back overnight.


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## Ibblebibble (9 October 2013)

oh jess, like you haven't got enough to deal with right now without the RSPCA sticking their oar in! bloody typical that they are now throwing their weight around but didn't consider him worthy of their time when you asked for their help.x


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## Pippity (9 October 2013)

I've got nothing useful to add, but I didn't want to read and run. You have all my sympathy at this point. After everything you've done for Prince, to have this fall on you is so ridiculous it's painful.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (9 October 2013)

Turning my phone off now as ive had a complain from work. Im just so angry confused and upset!

If anyone is free to just talk, pm me and il give you my details. Ive got no one to talk to anymore ): x


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## Amymay (9 October 2013)

Jess I know that some posters on here were very generous with feed and equipment etc.  Do any of them live near you??


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## LittleMonster (9 October 2013)

If you were closer Jess i would've offered to help with your mare!

I'm sorry this has happened! You have done so well with Prince (i've been following but never commented!)
Don't know why people do this to their loan horses 

Best of Luck!

Bx


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## poops (9 October 2013)

Thinking of you. Prince is so lucky to have you. As others have suggested, I think it would be good if you can get a sharer for your mare & hang on to your boy.


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## hayinamanger (9 October 2013)

So sorry you have had these two horrible things kick you in the teeth.  Prince has been improving so much, he looks like a different horse now, I don't understand the RSPCA's reasoning there at all but I think the vet will give them a positive report.  As for your mare, the loaner has to be held accountable for allowing her to get laminitis, it's unforgivable.


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## DuckToller (9 October 2013)

Can anyone do a quick summing up for someone who hasn't followed this story?  

I am reasonably close and might be able to offer some help, but without knowing the full story I am not sure what help would be useful, and what is going on.


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## ester (9 October 2013)

amymay said:



			Really?  I'm amazed.  Looking at your blog the horse shows massive improvement between the beginning and end of September.  

The RSPCA can't order the horse to be put to sleep - only suggest to your vet that it may be a course of action to consider.

I'm staggered.
		
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This, and you want any improvement to be steady anyway. Is this their vet or yours J&M?


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## Meowy Catkin (9 October 2013)

DuckToller said:



			Can anyone do a quick summing up for someone who hasn't followed this story?  

I am reasonably close and might be able to offer some help, but without knowing the full story I am not sure what help would be useful, and what is going on.
		
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http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?614006-This-has-gone-on-too-long
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?628390-I-am-Prince


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## slumdog (9 October 2013)

The RSPCA have no legal powers, they can't force you to have him pts, it would have to go to court first. I have no idea why they are doing it but it may be worth taking legal advice, I'd fight them all the way. 

I wish I could offer to help, you don't deserve any of this.


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## Amymay (9 October 2013)

Prince is a horse that was liveried at the same yard as Jess.  He suffered many years of neglect from his owner, who was reported on several occasions to the RSPCA.  The OP managed to work with the BHS in getting the horse signed over to her (with the owners consent) to attempt to give the horse a quality of life he had been without for several years.  The RSPCA are now interested - hence them calling on the OP.

Jess has been working with her vet and various other professionals to put Prince back on the road to recovery.

That's the long and the short of it - Jess will correct anything that is incorrect.


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## Amymay (9 October 2013)

I've pm'd you Ducktoller


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## MrsMozart (9 October 2013)

A call to the RSPCA to find out why they think that a) Prince hasn't put on enough weight and why, and b) under what law they believe they have the right to order that he is destroyed.

A call to the vet to find out how long the lami will need treatment for. We've done everything from a week to three months (stabled 24/7).

Once the OP has the answers to those two questions then a more considered decision can be made.

Even if the OP decides to have Prince pts, the horse will know nothing about it. All he will know is the continuation of love and security from OP, which he'll know until his last moment.


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## Gracie21 (9 October 2013)

Can't offer any advice but supporting you every step of the way. Sending you a massive mug of tea and a whole shop full of Maryland cookies xxxxxx


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## mightymammoth (9 October 2013)

jess what area do you live? maybe we can help?


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (9 October 2013)

ester said:



			This, and you want any improvement to be steady anyway. Is this their vet or yours J&M?
		
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Both my vet practise is the one they use for cruelty cases. 



amymay said:



			Prince is a horse that was liveried at the same yard as Jess.  He suffered many years of neglect from his owner, who was reported on several occasions to the RSPCA.  The OP managed to work with the BHS in getting the horse signed over to her (with the owners consent) to attempt to give the horse a quality of life he had been without for several years.  The RSPCA are now interested - hence them calling on the OP.

Jess has been working with her vet and various other professionals to put Prince back on the road to recovery.

That's the long and the short of it - Jess will correct anything that is incorrect.
		
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This is correct



MrsMozart said:



			A call to the RSPCA to find out why they think that a) Prince hasn't put on enough weight and why, and b) under what law they believe they have the right to order that he is destroyed.

A call to the vet to find out how long the lami will need treatment for. We've done everything from a week to three months (stabled 24/7).

Once the OP has the answers to those two questions then a more considered decision can be made.

Even if the OP decides to have Prince pts, the horse will know nothing about it. All he will know is the continuation of love and security from OP, which he'll know until his last moment.
		
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They believe he is still grossly underweight. You've all seen the pictures, i dont edit them or the videos. He looks how he looks.
Lami is recovering, i tried trotting her up today but im terrible at spotting lameness, will have my vet look on wednesday but its not immediately obvious but heat in the feet.



victoria1980x said:



			jess what area do you live? maybe we can help?
		
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Colchester, essex



Its my fault. Im a very anxious and nervous person who doesnt speak up and i let people walk all over me. The rspca inspector said that the first visit they ordered was to put the horse to sleep but my vet gave me a month to make inprovements. I didnt think i was being investigated. Just told off. But now it seems the rspca want him signed off as a healthy weight or put to sleep. Just got to see what the vet says now. She hasnt called yet


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## texas (9 October 2013)

i'm near you but I don't think i have anything to offer other than hugs   please tell me if you do need anything specific/support and I will see what i can do.


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## splashnutti1 (9 October 2013)

I hadnt seen your story until now, seems to be you have done a fab job with prince hun and so sorry to hear the problems you are having 

I would love to help but sadly im to far away

I hope all works out okay for you and that the vet can see the lovely improvement in Prince xx


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## jrp204 (9 October 2013)

I cannot see that the RSPCA can order a vet to put a horse down when they haven't had ownership transferred to them. They have no legal right to enter property. Are you do or you know anyone who is a BHS member?


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## Amymay (9 October 2013)

jrp204 said:



			I cannot see that the RSPCA can order a vet to put a horse down when they haven't had ownership transferred to them. They have no legal right to enter property. Are you do or you know anyone who is a BHS member?
		
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I think at this stage Jess needs an advocate who can physically stand alongside her and talk with the RSPCA when they next come.


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## Lynsey&Smartie (9 October 2013)

Surely the RSPCA must realise that it is better for the horse to put weight on gradually?! As long as his weight is increasing surely it's going in the right direction. 

They really cannot force or order a vet to put down your horse or do it themselves. Is there something that they have specifically asked you to do that you haven't done?


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## Slinkyunicorn (9 October 2013)

I can not believe the RSPCA are recommending PTS :mad3: especially considering they are the same people who thought Carrot & Spud were ok :rolleyes3: - for those who don't know that story they were both given conditions scores of zero by Bransby on the day of their rescue.

Please call the BHS and ask for Lee Hackett who is the Welfare Officer there and see how they can help - they have local welfare officers.


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## Amymay (9 October 2013)

slinkyunicorn said:



			Please call the BHS and ask for Lee Hackett who is the Welfare Officer there and see how they can help - they have local welfare officers.
		
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I agree.  Get back to your BHS contact.


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## Goldenstar (9 October 2013)

Get back on to the BHS lady .
How does the RSPCA officer not see the improvement you can see in the pictures you post .
They can not Put your horse to sleep with out a very good reason .
Do not meet them alone get some one heavy duty with you and the BHS welfare officer as well.
Try to get an experianced horses friend or a solicitor friend if you have one to go with you do not meet them alone don't be bullied .
Are you keeping wieght tape records and are they ?
If you have a wieght tape reading from when you started get another and prove want he's gained .


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## Goldenstar (9 October 2013)

Something is strange here it's just not up to the RSPCA to decide to PTS a horse or sign it off they can't even PTS horses in court cases where the owner refuses to have to a horse PTS where the horse is in a complete mess and has been seized with the permission of the police .
Remember Jessi they have no more rights than I would if I turned up at your yard .
They could try to prosecute you but when you told the story they would look pretty silly even for them.
You must find someone to support you if was not over 300 miles away I would come.
Failing there's always the daily mail.


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## zigzag (9 October 2013)

The RSPCA cannot order you to put Prince down, he is improving, I think I'm also right the RSPCA CANNOT use the same vet as you for conflict of interest.


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## Goldenstar (9 October 2013)

zigzag said:



			The RSPCA cannot order you to put Prince down, he is improving, I think I'm also right the RSPCA CANNOT use the same vet as you for conflict of interest.
		
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I think you are correct about the vet.
This is making less and less sense unless the world has changed a lot since I was a welfare officer Prince in his last pictures was not thin enough to warrant thinking of PTS.


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## zigzag (9 October 2013)

I just looked at the first pics you put up off Prince when you got him, he  wasn't a PTS case then, (I have seen a lot worse that were not ordered to PTS) and he looks so much better now


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## Goldenstar (9 October 2013)

zigzag said:



			I just looked at the first pics you put up off Prince when you got him, he  wasn't a PTS case then, (I have seen a lot worse that were not ordered to PTS) and he looks so much better now
		
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Me too I am beyond confused about what's going on here.


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## Tiddlypom (9 October 2013)

If I lived closer I would also come and give moral and physical support, you have done wonders and this is all very unfair OP.

Just a thought, are you 100% sure that the RSPCA official(s) you have seen are genuine? Not some busy bodies acting out on some power trip or in cahoots with Prince's old owner perhaps?


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## Bigbenji (9 October 2013)

I'm a bit confused as well :/ 
If RSPCA really are insisting on threatening the pts route tell them to meet you there when the local rag is covering the story of your plight to rescue prince and the fantastic progression he had made in such a short time and how the press want to know why they want to put down  a horse improving and under vet care. 
Never heard anything like it and I've heard a lot of mutts nuts!


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## ester (9 October 2013)

zigzag said:



			The RSPCA cannot order you to put Prince down, he is improving, I think I'm also right the RSPCA CANNOT use the same vet as you for conflict of interest.
		
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I thought that she meant that both her vet and the RSPCA's vet were involved, not that they were one and the same.


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## slumdog (9 October 2013)

Are you sure you've understood correctly and they've not said something like about vets doing tests on him to see if he has an illness that's stopping him putting on weight and if they find he has you may need to consider pts? 

I just wondered, as it's easy to get mixed up when your stressed and upset and it doesn't make sense. Surely they'd rule out illness before advising putting him to sleep?!


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## fine_and_dandy (9 October 2013)

Ok. I can't guarantee anything. I am based in Norfolk so Colchester is close (ish).

Can you get an indication of when rspca will be coming out and/or apparently enforcing the pts? If I am able to take the day off work, I'll come down to you and be there as a legal advocate for you. I am not a qualified lawyer (everything but a training contract) but I have experience in making representations and providing I can be given all info and evidence, I could prepare something in advance or in writing to put them back in their box.


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## tabithakat64 (9 October 2013)

What terrible luck Jess  

Regarding the RSPCA as others have suggested get the BHS welfare officer reinvolved, print all pictures as evidence of Princes improving condition and get your vet to write a report of treatment, character reference etc.

I was involved in something similar to this eariler in the year and the RSPCA's behaviour amazed me and not in a good way.

I'm only in Herts so if I can be of any assistance please PM me.


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## babymare (9 October 2013)

Oh dear god what???? Surely rspca can see a good steady improvement not just in weight but his whole self eyes coat personality. beggars belief. i can help practicaly but i hope someone can help you sweetheart. just a huge hug useless i know but still a huv x x


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (9 October 2013)

Still at work. Bhs just phoned. Said that if the rspca think he should be put down they are probably right, better he be put down at his yard with me than taken away and put down at theirs. It is confusing, but everything im saying is true. Bhs lady said i was being bullied to pts in their timeframe.

Now trying to answer some questions. 

Vet is the same person, ive used her for 4 years, no idea she worked with the rspca until she came to examine prince.

the rspca arent coming back, they want the vet out by next week to weightape and if not significant improvement then pts at my expense, which i dont care about but it suggests that it is my choice
Last weight was 350kg by vet, 4 weeks ago
Last weight by me was 435kg last week. I did it in every possible way, 435 was the lowest reading.

I feel like im being treated like a criminal.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (9 October 2013)

fine_and_dandy said:



			Ok. I can't guarantee anything. I am based in Norfolk so Colchester is close (ish).

Can you get an indication of when rspca will be coming out and/or apparently enforcing the pts? If I am able to take the day off work, I'll come down to you and be there as a legal advocate for you. I am not a qualified lawyer (everything but a training contract) but I have experience in making representations and providing I can be given all info and evidence, I could prepare something in advance or in writing to put them back in their box.
		
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Could you call me? I'll tell you everything you want to know, from the last 3 years of his life. Next time i get an unknown call i will record it, including my vets call.


To the person who asked if i have heard it wrong, i wish, she told me that the horse should have been pts when i got it but Apparantly i was told i had a month to improve his weight, no evidence. ( the only thing i have is the note and ive kept it) Month is up and the rspca officer that saw him says he is still 'grossly underweight'  so pts it will be unless the vet (also theirs) decides he has made considerable improvement


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## slumdog (9 October 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			Still at work. Bhs just phoned. Said that if the rspca think he should be put down they are probably right, better he be put down at his yard with me than taken away and put down at theirs. It is confusing, but everything im saying is true. Bhs lady said i was being bullied to pts in their timeframe.

Now trying to answer some questions. 

Vet is the same person, ive used her for 4 years, no idea she worked with the rspca until she came to examine prince.

the rspca arent coming back, they want the vet out by next week to weightape and if not significant improvement then pts at my expense, which i dont care about but it suggests that it is my choice
Last weight was 350kg by vet, 4 weeks ago
Last weight by me was 435kg last week. I did it in every possible way, 435 was the lowest reading.

I feel like im being treated like a criminal.
		
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If they weren't coming back and wanted him pts at my expense, then "the gate would be left open by someone and he'd escape never to been seen again"


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## fine_and_dandy (9 October 2013)

PM me absolutely everything.  Whole history, details of anything you have in writing, pictures, details of phone calls (when who etc). 

I'll speak to friends who are barristers. When vet comes out, get her to note weight tape and ask her to bring records with her of when he was first seen with you as owner. Ask her outright if she agrees or disagrees, and if she disagrees, get a second opinion. I can very easily draft a staying letter to rspca to advise if a second opinion is needed. I get so would up by things like this.

Pm me your email so we can correspond. Get everything to me by Friday and I'll look it all over on the weekend. Pm me your mobile number too and I'll arrange to call you on weekend. I'll start some preliminary research regarding rspca powers and pts.

People are rooting for you and will help anyway possible.


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## Goldenstar (9 October 2013)

Fine_and_dandy that's so good to hear.
It can't be right that the vet is batting for both sides she has a financial incentive not to piss off the RSPCA.


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## be positive (9 October 2013)

They have no power to enforce this nor has the vet, he is your property now and unless they take proper steps to get him signed over or seized as far as I understand there is nothing they can do, they should have acted before he was yours but failed him then, I think they see you as an easier target to intimidate than his previous owner.
He is not grossly underweight and even if he was he has water, shelter and food so his basic requirements are being met surely that is the only concern they should have, can you get someone to be with you when the vet comes out to give you support.

I am too far away to offer any help but I am sure someone will be there for you.


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## star26 (9 October 2013)

Oh Jessi, what a horrible mess this is. I wish i were closer so i could come and physically do something.  

How very kind of fine_and _dandy to offer to help, what a hero! 

I really hope you can sort something out so you can keep both horses- perhaps someone on here wants a loan?
Keep us updated and don't be afraid to ask for help if needed- remember, we are all on your side and you can come here for support any time.

Sending positive vibes and hugs.


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## One More (9 October 2013)

Oh gosh, poor you! I think fine_and_dandy has some very wise words of advise. I also have a TB who arrived in the same state prince was in, it's taken me 5 months to build his weight back up to where it should be. You have done an incredible job in the timeframe, and I'm sure prince really appreciates being loved by you. 
Just so angry on your behalf OP, RSPCA are making a right hash of this.


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## cbmcts (9 October 2013)

Jess

I wish I could say I was surprised by the RSPCAs behaviour but sadly I'm not!

While not legally trained, I'm a fairly bolshy old bird who is quite articulate and not too far from you so if FandD can't make next Wednesday, let me know if you like and I'll shoot up the A12...


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## WoopsiiD (9 October 2013)

I have not read through the whole thread so I apologise if this has been posted
http://the-shg.org/

I know someone who had animals seized with little or no notice. They refused to even say where  they took the animal. This group helped enormously.


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## Goldenstar (9 October 2013)

Jessi I have sent you a pm.


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## babymare (9 October 2013)

By god this forum steps up to the mark time and time again. you people are truelly amazing. jess somany people myself inc are rooting for you. please stay strong so many have seen the difference in prince and all support you if not in person in spirit. x x


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## fine_and_dandy (9 October 2013)

Jessie did they leave you improvement notices? Any and all of those are integral. Also request copy of vet file on him. 

Can any other forum users help me out?This will be fairly big in terms of research in terms of their powers. I've already been through the animal welfare act 2006. Can a few people run searches as to powers to destroy if the animal doesn't belong to the charity? And pm me the results? 

Animal welfare act is the first port of call but save after prosecution and convictions, and certain other circs there is no power. I just want to confirm this as far as I can before I start drafting my rocket in terms of where they stand legally.

REMEMBER Jessica, they have no power to enter your premises unless accompanied by an officer with a warrant etc.


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## mightymammoth (9 October 2013)

wasn't there a member who used to work for the rspca/bhs? I can't for the life of me remember who. I'm sure there's a member on here as well called something like "BHSLee" who may have some info/advice. Does anyone know who these folks are or have I dremt it?


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (9 October 2013)

They already entered the premisis. And entered the rooms, she admitted to it, shed have had to hop both fences.

Id just had a long chat with my vet. I love her dearly, she helped me so so much when magic was put to sleep, she said she will come on my behalf, not theirs and check him over and she will offer her honest opinion. She spoke to me about if i could offer prince a permanent home, i answered honestly and said i didnt know. She asked me to think about where he might end up if something should happen to me, or i lost my job. She asked me to think about what we talked about when magic was pts, about how i could promise that he would never be in pain or struggle through another winter again by letting him go. She asked me to think about these things should the prognosis be poor.
She is coming next wednesday.
She said the rspca are wrong and all decisions are mine.
I dont like this


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## Goldenstar (9 October 2013)

Jess pick up my pm when you can .


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## MillyMoomie (9 October 2013)

If you PM me the name of the RSPCA officer I can find out exactly what's going on through some contacts.


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## zigzag (9 October 2013)

This maybe helpful for you http://the-shg.org/Basic legal advice for pet owners.htm


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## jenki13 (9 October 2013)

Jess big hugs! 

Hopefully your mare is on the mend & you can find a loan/share that allows you to keep her. 

The RSPCA are just being ridiculous! How can they say there hasn't been a significant improvement.. he's fed, rugged has water & looks tons better than when you took him on 

Fine_and_dandy has made a fantastic offer & if you weren't 5 hours drive away I'd come & give you support when the RSPCA were about.

Remember they have no powers of entry & the police only do if they have a warrant (or to save a life).

I'm trying to find out the powers of the RSPCA when it comes to PTS but can't find anything other than a House of commons debate & the rspca sight saying that they prosecute...


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## BlackRider (9 October 2013)

Just wanted to say (((HUGS))) and thinking of you xx


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## fine_and_dandy (9 October 2013)

Thanks all for help - keep it coming. One thing that would help is looking into feeding guidance for neglected horses. General advice is "slowly but surely" to avoid colic etc but if there is any online guidance or notes from rspca or other more horsey institutions that would be great.

I'm going to have a look tomorrow at that angle.

Thanks also for pms!


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## Slinkyunicorn (9 October 2013)

F&D it might be worth contacting Bransby - they did a 4 page article on the rehabbing of Carrot and Spud - they were condition scored at zero when they arrived and they were successfully rehabbed SLOWLY with a fibre based diet. Not sure if it archived on their website - will find a link - but I am sure they would be worth a call if not.


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## Slinkyunicorn (9 October 2013)

Here is a link from their website with some details about Carrots rehab - as you can see from the picture he was WAY thinner then Prince ever was - I will never forget the first time I saw him - he was like a walking skeleton :frown3:

http://www.bransbyhorses.co.uk/news/news-archive2010-2011.html


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## BWa (9 October 2013)

I'm so mad for you Jess, all those times you tried to help Prince and they didn't want to know and now this! I hate the RSPCA anyway, but even more now. I would love if it you point this out that to them At some point! 
Thinking of you. X


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## fine_and_dandy (9 October 2013)

Thanks slinks. That's ace. I'll be using that...and BWa,  we'll see what it takes but that will be coming out at some point. It depends on how stupid they wish to be as to how quickly my claws start coming out.

Jessica - who is the mp for your area? That is also a good way to get some leverage and weight. Once we've got something in writing that you are happy with, we can cc them in on it to draw it to their attention.


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## texas (9 October 2013)

Jessi I will not let you put him down without good reason.  He is in much better condition than he was and is obviously happy and enjoying life.  If we all worried about losing our jobs none of us would have horses. Cross that bridge if you ever reach it. I would love to meet you and the boy at the weekend if you have time.


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## Bestdogdash (9 October 2013)

Jessi

Remember I said contact if you need me ? Have PMed you. By the way - Fine & Dandy giving you great help (well done F&D).


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## Fjord (9 October 2013)

Just wanted to offer lots of hugs xx


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## Fii (9 October 2013)

The RSPCA seems to be bullying you, ithink you have made brilliant progress with his weight, and they are clueless if they are giving you/him such a short time span to put more weight on!!


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## FionaM12 (9 October 2013)

So sorry things are so difficult at present, with your mare and the lovely Prince. The RSPCA position seems ludicrous and I hope the vet puts them straight.

So sad to read all this after all your happy and positive Prince posts, and the great job you're doing with him.


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## LisaS (9 October 2013)

amymay said:



			I think at this stage Jess needs an advocate who can physically stand alongside her and talk with the RSPCA when they next come.
		
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I work in Essex and am more than happy to be present when the RSPCA come. I'm an Aussie and not a shy retiring wallflower who can be pushed around so will gladly lend any support needed


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## digitalangel (9 October 2013)

ooh a fellow aussie!! wish i was closer otherwise i would be happy to smack heads together, antipodean style!  Jess i have sent you a message on Fb x


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## Shadrid (9 October 2013)

You really don't deserve all this c**p. Far worse cases out there that the RSPCA should be concentrating on. Thank goodness you have help at hand from lovely local HHO'ers. Good luck x


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## jrp204 (10 October 2013)

I sent this to a friend who is an Animal Health Officer for our County Council.

"can I pick your brains? There is a thread on the horse and forum headed 'stressed'. Basically involving the RSPCA. Do you know if they can recommend PTS in an animal they have not seized or prosecuted over? A young girl has been signed over a horse that was very malnourished, in aug. it has put on weight since she's had it but the good ole RSPCA have been notified on it and left instructions on the gate, they are now demanding their vet, who is also her vet report on it and they will say if it has to be PTS. This cannot be right? Obviously she is very upset, the horse has visibly improved over the month or so she has had it. Personally I would tell the RSPCA to bug off but then I'm a mouthy old cow!"

"I would agree with you,  but need more information! The rspca have no powers of entry so would be trespassing. They have no powers to order the destruction of any animal. Only the courts, a vet or animal health inspector can order that.
Did her vet see it when it arrived?"


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## be positive (10 October 2013)

jrp204 said:



			I sent this to a friend who is an Animal Health Officer for our County Council.

"can I pick your brains? There is a thread on the horse and forum headed 'stressed'. Basically involving the RSPCA. Do you know if they can recommend PTS in an animal they have not seized or prosecuted over? A young girl has been signed over a horse that was very malnourished, in aug. it has put on weight since she's had it but the good ole RSPCA have been notified on it and left instructions on the gate, they are now demanding their vet, who is also her vet report on it and they will say if it has to be PTS. This cannot be right? Obviously she is very upset, the horse has visibly improved over the month or so she has had it. Personally I would tell the RSPCA to bug off but then I'm a mouthy old cow!"

"I would agree with you,  but need more information! The rspca have no powers of entry so would be trespassing. They have no powers to order the destruction of any animal. Only the courts, a vet or animal health inspector can order that.
Did her vet see it when it arrived?"
		
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The reply is fairly clear and is as I would expect, surely the vet can only destroy  the horse if it is proven to be suffering, in this case there is no evidence of any  suffering, all he has done is improve since Jess took over his care, he may have an underlying problem which could ultimately end in him needing to be pts but so far there is no evidence of that. 

I cannot understand why they are wasting time and resources  on hassling a caring owner who has had nothing but the horses best interests at heart all along when they would do nothing when he was suffering with his previous owner, it really is beyond belief.


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## Kat (10 October 2013)

If Jess is on a livery yard it is up to the YO whether the rspca inspector can enter the premises,  not jess. 

Personally I am wondering whether the YO might be some how involved. ......... 

Fine and Dandy let me know if I can help on the legal side. I am really tight for time at the moment but could probably manage some checking and proof reading.  I'm in civil litigation. Might be worth a PM to mithras she is pretty good on fairly diverse legal stuff.


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## texas (10 October 2013)

fine and dandy, your inbox is full.

I've been looking for info on feeding up malnourished horses and found this.  It's a very well regarded U.S. site.

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/28620/feeding-starved-or-malnourished-horses

Key line at the bottom of the article:

"Moderately starved and thin horses usually regain body weight within 60-90 days. However severely starved horses might not recover fully for six to 10 months."

Hope that helps a bit.


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## Potato! (10 October 2013)

Im in Devon so cant help physically but im thinking of you. xx


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## ester (10 October 2013)

fwiw none of us can promise our horses a home forever- we can however promise them a home for life (as in if the situation changes we have them pts) - I cannot see where your vet is coming from at all, if things change you can make the decision then - you don't need to make it now. 

It seems completely nuts that over the previous couple of years they have done nothing to help prince but now they have an owner that will engage they think he should be PTS- when we have seen horses on this forum (inc carrot and spud) who have been much worse than he is now and which they have not acted on (am thinking JadeyandLady's Lady never looked that great either but they didn't suggest she be PTS either).

I am pleased that you are getting some help from others with this, well done fine and dandy, kat, Lisa et al. for offering to help out.


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## jrp204 (10 October 2013)

I am still waiting to hear from my 'Animal Health' friend whether you have to allow the RSPCA appointed vet to inspect the horse, I would assume not since the RSPCA actually have no powers. Personally, I would not allow the RSPCA or their acting vet any access to the horse until things are clarified. If you instruct the vet to come and see him and are paying the bill that is fine, the vet cannot then report back to the RSPCA.
Jess, I would love to come and help but am down in the depths of Cornwall, I will post his reply as soon as I get one. Please do not be bullied by them, stand your ground. This is the time you need to get really ****ty, he is your horse and they can bog off!


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## dianchi (10 October 2013)

Jess sorry to see this 
However the case rests on your vet by the sounds of things, and yes she is being straight with the home for life part, however if her recommendation was for PTS, I would challenge RSPCA for using a vet with conflict of interest- although amazed your vet didn't say no in the first place!

Although I cant offer a location I can offer transport for when the gate gets left open and he was gone....................

Fineanddandy your inbox is full but offering help!


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## Goldenstar (10 October 2013)

Its my understanding that the law allows the vet to PTS a horse if it is suffering say a broken limb or terrible laminitis and protects the vet in those circunmtances from action by the owner.
I do not think a horse who is gaining wieght ( and the wieght tape records prove this ) even if it is still thinish can be said to be suffering I don't think Jessi can be forced into anything in these circunmtances but she could be bullied into it.
It is of course Jessis  call and she trusts the vet but I would not deal in this situation with a vet that acts for the RSPCA .
I would ask for his records to transfered to another practice making my request in writing with the reasons clearly stated .
I would then get a call out from another equine vet but I have the resources to deal with this situation it's much more difficult for Jessi.


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## Amymay (10 October 2013)

Jess has used this vet for four years and trusts them implicitly.


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## dianchi (10 October 2013)

amymay said:



			Jess has used this vet for four years and trusts them implicitly.
		
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As ever amymay very helpful contribution.


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## ester (10 October 2013)

Should the vet not have declined to represent the RSPCA then given her conflict of interests??


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## jrp204 (10 October 2013)

It is great when you trust your vet BUT whilst they are acting on the insructions of the RSPCA I would not allow them access until things are more clear. The vet will not be able to discuss their findings with anyone but the RSPCA since they are the client.


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## Goldenstar (10 October 2013)

jrp204 said:



			It is great when you trust your vet BUT whilst they are acting on the insructions of the RSPCA I would not allow them access until things are more clear. The vet will not be able to discuss their findings with anyone but the RSPCA since they are the client.
		
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I don't think the RSPCA is the client on the next visit  Jessi is and the vet can not discuss it with the RSPCAs permission without het consent.
If thevets "working " for the RSPCA I would not allow the next visit to go ahead .
RSPCA left this horse with no help for years they ought to be ashamed of themselves .
It just makes no sense to at all.


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## jrp204 (10 October 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			I don't think the RSPCA is the client on the next visit  Jessi is and the vet can not discuss it with the RSPCAs permission without het consent.
		
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Cool.


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## Moomin1 (10 October 2013)

Me thinks there are some inaccuracies in this whole saga....


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## Amymay (10 October 2013)

dianchi said:



			As ever amymay very helpful contribution.
		
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????


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## Adopter (10 October 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			I don't think the RSPCA is the client on the next visit  Jessi is and the vet can not discuss it with the RSPCAs permission without het consent.
If thevets "working " for the RSPCA I would not allow the next visit to go ahead .
RSPCA left this horse with no help for years they ought to be ashamed of themselves .
It just makes no sense to at all.
		
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I just do not understandhow all the pleas for help came to nothing until the BHS got involved, why when BHS have taken over is a second organisation getting involved, especially if there is weigh tape evidence of improvement.

I do hope there is not some underlying condition that will change things.  So hoping this is all resolved without more distress for Jess.


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## Kat (10 October 2013)

I suspect that there has been a new complaint that the rspca are dealing with separate from the issue with the old owner that the BHS were involved with.


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## sarahann1 (10 October 2013)

This is rubbish, I wish I was closer to be able to give you a proper hug Jess, sending virtual hugs your way. Hopefully it'll all get sorted out.


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## Sugar_and_Spice (10 October 2013)

Kat said:



			I suspect that there has been a new complaint that the rspca are dealing with separate from the issue with the old owner that the BHS were involved with.
		
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Jessie is there any chance this current situation is something to do with the old sharer of your other horse, a sort of revenge attack for you not letting her buy it? 

Perhaps you've been portrayed as someone who 'rescues' horses then leaves them to get in a state? They turn up and find one thin horse and one with laminitis, and so, having got the wrong impression of you, the bullying starts as they decide to 'nip it all in the bud' maybe?

Could you get character references from a riding club, instructor, yard owner etc. stating your length of ownership of both horses and their opinion on your standard of horsecare/knowledge?


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## fine_and_dandy (10 October 2013)

Whoops sorry re the pms. I can't sort at moment but will this evening. 

Thanks Kat - may call on you for help.

I can't attend next Wednesday. I have asked work. Can anyone else be there as back up and support? I'll still do reps etcnand will send beforehand and help after if more needs doing. I just can't get the time off :-(


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## MillyMoomie (10 October 2013)

I can attend. But I need the name of the RSPCA officer so I know the exact situation.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (10 October 2013)

fine_and_dandy said:



			Whoops sorry re the pms. I can't sort at moment but will this evening. 

Thanks Kat - may call on you for help.

I can't attend next Wednesday. I have asked work. Can anyone else be there as back up and support? I'll still do reps etcnand will send beforehand and help after if more needs doing. I just can't get the time off :-(
		
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Please dont worry about that. The rspca wont be there for the vet check anyway, they dont tell me when they are coming down


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## jrp204 (10 October 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			Just updating you.
Rspca have returned, good but not good enough was the verdict. They want the vet back to decided whether he is put to sleep or not. Id like to add this is nothing to do with my financial situation, but a pre planned visit by the rspca. Vet will call me later and probably visit next wednesday.
		
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It does appear from this that the vet visit on Weds has been arranged by the RSPCA, please wait for some advice before allowing this to happen. 
"The rspca have no powers of entry so would be trespassing. They have no powers to order the destruction of any animal. Only the courts, a vet or animal health inspector can order that." Direct quote from an Animal Health Officer. 

Jess, where does your yard owner stand in all this?


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (10 October 2013)

Shes doesnt stand anywhere, its not a livery yard, just a series of rented fields. Shes an elderly lady who has not given the rspca permission to enter, i spoke to her last night.

Millymoomin, i cant give her name out, i wouldnt want to think of the repercussions of doing that. They will not be there on wednesday, the vet assured me she was coming for me. Not them, and if i wanted her to report back to them i had to give permission and it be done as a written report.

Its wednesday, i arranged this because its my closest day off. The rspca said in the next week on the phone and 10-14 days on their notice


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## martlin (10 October 2013)

Jessi, are you having your vet visit because the RSPCA have asked you to? If so, don't.


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## jrp204 (10 October 2013)

Jess, the RSPCA have no right to come onto the land. They are bullying you. I wish I was closer! Tell the RSPCA they cannot access the land without consent.


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## Amymay (10 October 2013)

martlin said:



			Jessi, are you having your vet visit because the RSPCA have asked you to? If so, don't.
		
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But what would the repercussions be?


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## martlin (10 October 2013)

amymay said:



			But what would the repercussions be?
		
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It's all very wrong in this situation, as far as I can work out. The RSPCA visited for some reason, not clear why, they demand the horse be PTS? The vet sounds rather weird in the quotes Jessi put here, talking about homes forever and all sorts, it sounds to me as the vet is ''siding'' with the RSPCA here, whilst claiming to be on Jessi's side. And what is she coming out for anyway? The horse is getting better every day, as far as we know there isn't health issues other than being underfed.
I would imagine RSPCA might demand the horse to be vet examined, if so, they can arrange this, I wouldn't be giving them a hand. Also, I would defo get Prince on the books with another vet, just to avoid any possible conflict of interest.


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## Jenni_ (10 October 2013)

Get every page of your blog printed out, all the pictures labelled with what weight he was and the date. Show the donations of food that were made... the lot! If anything the fact that there is evidence of a whole forum supporting you might be enough for them to reel their bullying in. 

Your pictures show a MASSIVE improvement. I seen a few of my friends TB's come out our last Scottish winter looking worse than prince is now as we had a horrendous quick change in conditions. They joked that they should be hiding their horses incase the SSPCA stumbled across them despite rigorous feeding and rugging... doesn't seem as funny now 

Shame I'm not closer, or I'd have come and supported you. As a women-mountain of a boxer, put me infront of a horses stable door and there's not many wee RSPCA inspectors going to get past me! And I can talk the talk when the need arises too.

Massive hugs. Thinking of you xx


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## Sven (10 October 2013)

Jenni makes a good point, if you put together a file of your involvement with Prince, from the failed earlier response of the RSPCA to the help from BHS, the date he became yours, (just in case they are actually investigating the old owner not you!) the photographic evidence of his improvement and the forum trail. You can demonstrate the fantastic job you've done, your commitment to Prince and your other equines.  Get it all in writing and give to the RSPCA with witnesses and make sure you keep copies.

Good luck, chin up xx


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## MillyMoomie (10 October 2013)

Jessi, what repercussions? Cards are left all over the place with Insp names on. Plus you have blog and all this on a public forum. Plus I'm not asking you to put it in the thread. 

Don't worry. If you don't wish to say that's ok. I can find out anyway and will do. But if there is anything you might want to add then PM me anyway


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## southerncomfort (10 October 2013)

Shocking behaviour from the the RSPCA!

I personally would refuse them access to the land.  Send them your printed out blog with details of the many ways in which they failed this poor horse, and threaten to send the lot to the Daily Mail if they continue bullying you in to destroying a horse whose health is improving under your dedicated care.

I hate the DM with a passion but they've done quite a few anti-RSPCA stories over the past year, I'm sure they'd love another one!


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (10 October 2013)

MillyMoomie said:



			Jessi, what repercussions? Cards are left all over the place with Insp names on. Plus you have blog and all this on a public forum. Plus I'm not asking you to put it in the thread. 

Don't worry. If you don't wish to say that's ok. I can find out anyway and will do. But if there is anything you might want to add then PM me anyway
		
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She doesnt leave her name, just the inspector number, i only know her name because my vet told me last time she saw prince so its clear she doesnt want me to have it, let alone give it out. Your welcome to find out but thats your choice and curiousity, that way it doesnt affect anything to do with me.


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## southerncomfort (10 October 2013)

Also, would it be worth getting one of the welfare organisations involved such as EMW?  They rehab horses like this all the time and could maybe convince the RSPCA that it's worth carrying on with Prince for a while longer?


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## Spring Feather (10 October 2013)

Oh my goodness, I've only just looked at this thread and am appalled.  I don't know how the RSPCA works in the UK nowadays but over here the SPCA can (and do) seize horses they deem inappropriately cared for.  All they need is a police warrant and presence to come on anyone's land and a vet to give their opinion and if negative then the SPCA can take possession of said horse.  This seizing is almost always done after many visits and offering up time for the owners to improve the situation of the horse.  

My first piece of advice is to ditch your vet.  Immediately.  Please do this straight away. I feel there is a huge conflict of interest going on.  Try and find another vet who will stand up for the horse's best interests and not be browbeaten by any organisation.  You have your blog and anyone with even the slightest bit of horse knowledge can see the horse has improved in the few weeks you've been his guardian.  

I can't physically help and I'm not sure anything I could write out for you can be of any use to you but I have rehabbed a number of SPCA cases for our SPCA over here so have loads of photos and diary records of their progress.


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## Moomin1 (10 October 2013)

Does it not occur to anybody that maybe all the RSPCA officer is saying is to consider pts IF the vet feels he hasn't improved to the level he should? It would be a pretty sensible thing to suggest.  

I think there are elements to the story which are not quite accurate.


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## Holding (10 October 2013)

I have PM'd you Jess, please reply when you can and let me know what I can do to help. If the vet genuinely thinks that Prince is suffering and has underlying conditions that mean he will not recover, then of course the right thing to do would be PTS. But if it's a question of time and money, then I'm sure we can work something out.


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## jrp204 (10 October 2013)

Maybe, but since he was only handed over in Aug surely it is rather quick to be suggesting PTS? The horse hasn't got a broken leg. Going by the photos he does seem to have improved over that short time and is seeming in good spirits. Hardly a chronic welfare case (now). If he was that bad the RSPCA would have had the police involved. 
Is the officer new to the job? Maybe a bit keen or the uniform has gone to their head...a little bit of power.


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## Moomin1 (10 October 2013)

jrp204 said:



			Maybe, but since he was only handed over in Aug surely it is rather quick to be suggesting PTS? The horse hasn't got a broken leg. Going by the photos he does seem to have improved over that short time and is seeming in good spirits. Hardly a chronic welfare case (now). If he was that bad the RSPCA would have had the police involved.
		
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Yes exactly. That's why I am saying that IMO, the story in it's entirety has not been given.


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## MissTyc (10 October 2013)

Hope you're not paying for this Wednesday vet visit?

In fact I would cancel vet and then start ringing around alternative equine clinics and get a new vet who does not also serve the rspca. If all is as it sounds, then some serious bullying tactics going on here. Stick a new rug on horse, say old horse sold to an unnamed party...


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## Moomin1 (10 October 2013)

MissTyc said:



			Hope you're not paying for this Wednesday vet visit?

In fact I would cancel vet and then start ringing around alternative equine clinics and get a new vet who does not also serve the rspca. If all is as it sounds, then some serious bullying tactics going on here. Stick a new rug on horse, say old horse sold to an unnamed party...
		
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OP if I were you I SERIOUSLY wouldn't follow some of the advice given on this thread. Allow the vet (yes, the same vet if you are happy with that vet  normally - vets have a duty to remain unbiased and objective in their work, and certainly won't 'alter' things to suit the RSPCA) and follow the vet's advice. If you aren't happy with what the vet advises, then get a second opinion.  By failing to follow the vet's advice you are potentially committing an offence and could see yourself under a lot of scrutiny.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (10 October 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			Does it not occur to anybody that maybe all the RSPCA officer is saying is to consider pts IF the vet feels he hasn't improved to the level he should? It would be a pretty sensible thing to suggest.
		
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This is what i said. The officer said that if significate weight has not been put on then he is to be put down. If significant weight has been gained, then he will be signed off. I assume this means from their records. The officer then added that he has not put on significant weight and is still grossly underweight and has only had minor improvements.
Your welcome to your opinion about whether im editing the story or not, but do remember your not the one answering these calls, caring for the horse and making the desicions. Its hard to convey everything to the forum if you arent sat directly beside me, listening to everything and been around for the vet checks ect.


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## Moomin1 (10 October 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			This is what i said. The officer said that if significate weight has not been put on then he is to be put down. If significant weight has been gained, then he will be signed off. I assume this means from their records. The officer then added that he has not put on significant weight and is still grossly underweight and has only had minor improvements.
Your welcome to your opinion about whether im editing the story or not, but do remember your not the one answering these calls, caring for the horse and making the desicions. Its hard to convey everything to the forum if you arent sat directly beside me, listening to everything and been around for the vet checks ect.
		
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No you're completely correct, I'm not.  That's why I advise to follow all the advice your vet is giving you, and if not satisfied with that advice, get a second opinion. The RSPCA will I am quite sure be happy with the vet's opinion on what you should do, after all, it is the vet's opinion which would be needed to enforce any pts with a police officer's powers if that vet feels the horse is suffering or likely to do so, and the owner refuses.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (10 October 2013)

The last bit sounded harsh, what i mean is its hard to pass over every scrap of information when im trying to process it all myself. vet is coming, to check him over for my sake, and because the rspca have ordered me to get a vet out within 10-14 days. I feel that by not getting the vet out it looks like im hiding something, its also good to check up on princes liver damage and heart condition.

The vet will be coming on wednesday and a HHO member will be coming with a clear and realistic mind to handle the vet check with me


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## MissTyc (10 October 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			OP if I were you I SERIOUSLY wouldn't follow some of the advice given on this thread. Allow the vet (yes, the same vet if you are happy with that vet  normally - vets have a duty to remain unbiased and objective in their work, and certainly won't 'alter' things to suit the RSPCA) and follow the vet's advice. If you aren't happy with what the vet advises, then get a second opinion.  By failing to follow the vet's advice you are potentially committing an offence and could see yourself under a lot of scrutiny.
		
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What offence? If the thread is correct she hasn't been served with any papers?
I'm not saying DON'T get any vet, I'm just calling the whole situation into question to be honest. There seems to be a serious conflict of interest here. If the rspca is requesting a vet to attend, then yes of course cooperate if need be, but if the rspca is genuinely going to have the horse put down in response to this vet's opinion (without court order AND making the OP pay for it??) then surely OP shouldn't lie down and take it? This entirely thing is ridiculous, I really hope MP and Press are involved by now and will remind the rspca not to overstep the mark.


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## Moomin1 (10 October 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			The last bit sounded harsh, what i mean is its hard to pass over every scrap of information when im trying to process it all myself. vet is coming, to check him over for my sake, and because the rspca have ordered me to get a vet out within 10-14 days. I feel that by not getting the vet out it looks like im hiding something, its also good to check up on princes liver damage and heart condition.

The vet will be coming on wednesday and a HHO member will be coming with a clear and realistic mind to handle the vet check with me
		
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Then there's no problem!  

Not sure what the panic is all about. If the vet feels he has improved, and isn't suffering, or likely to, and is happy for things to continue, then the RSPCA I am quite sure will be.  It is the vet's opinion the RSPCA will want. That's all.


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## Moomin1 (10 October 2013)

MissTyc said:



			What offence? If the thread is correct she hasn't been served with any papers?
I'm not saying DON'T get any vet, I'm just calling the whole situation into question to be honest. There seems to be a serious conflict of interest here. If the rspca is requesting a vet to attend, then yes of course cooperate if need be, but if the rspca is genuinely going to have the horse put down in response to this vet's opinion (without court order AND making the OP pay for it??) then surely OP shouldn't lie down and take it? This entirely thing is ridiculous, I really hope MP and Press are involved by now and will remind the rspca not to overstep the mark.
		
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Seriously, don't be ridiculous.

What significance has being 'served with papers' got to do with committing an offence? I am quite sure people don't have to get served with papers to commit offences!  If OP does not follow vet advice, and that vet feels that her horse is suffering, and should be pts, then a police officer can and will use powers under the Animal Welfare Act to get the horse pts.  The cost wouldn't necessarily have to be met by OP.  The RSPCA may pay, they quite often do where they have intervened in that respect.  OP is fully entitled to get another vet's opinion too, which is what I have advised.


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## doriangrey (10 October 2013)

From the recent photos of Prince he is improving.  How can the RSPCA or even any vet worth their salt recommend that this horse be put down considering his welfare has significantly improved and he has put on weight since he has been signed over to Jessi?  If he hadn't put on any weight or he has some underlying condition that means he won't improve then OK, but this just sounds like utter nonsense and they should go and rescue some of the real welfare cases out there.  I'd be making like Farmer Palmer and telling them to 'get orf my laand'!


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## Wolves (10 October 2013)

I have just sat and read through all your threads and blog Jess, I really hope things work out. I have everything crossed for you x


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## Amymay (10 October 2013)

Moomin - do Jess a favour and back off. Please.


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## Goldenstar (10 October 2013)

Jessi just off out ( mum has had a stroke today and you may hear that a HHO member has strangled her father )Just wanted to say chin up lots of people are routing for you and the offer I made last night stands if you change your mind .


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## Moomin1 (10 October 2013)

amymay said:



			Moomin - do Jess a favour and back off. Please.
		
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Actually, I was trying to help OP, by providing her with the truth about what can and may happen should she refuse to have her horse pts if a vet deems it necessary to alleviate suffering.  Simples. If that offends, then sorry, I should have told a pack of lies.

My advice to OP was based around the above fact, and stands.  OP should listen to what the vet advises, and either follow that advice, in which case the RSPCA will be happy, or get a second opinion from another vet if displeased with that advice. If second vet then disagrees for whatever reason with first vet (highly unlikely) then it is down to the vets to provide reasons behind their opinions. Either way, it is down to the vets to make the decision on whether he is suffering or likely to, in the eyes of the law.  RSPCA will be satisfied if the vets are. Simple.

Alternatively, OP could ignore vet advice, in which case the first case scenario I mention may occur.  Or she could take the advice of some others here, and try to 'hide' said horse or remove it, in which case RSPCA will become extremely suspicious and probably step the gear up further.


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## ridefast (10 October 2013)

Well, lots of good advice re RSPCA and Prince. As for your mare, magnesium oxide is good for laminitics and you could also try a tablespoon of salt in her feed (make sure it is simple table salt with no caking agent) has helped my laminitic pony when he has been footy just to bring down pulses and heat


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## babymare (10 October 2013)

Oh jess . you poor thing to go through this. we have all sat and applauded you. we have seen prince go from a lost cause to a horse with a twinkle in his eye slowly building the weight but with life in that dead eye . now this. come on forum lets just stick behind her. Giving all info is hard by typing all the "they said i said". On wednesday you have someone with you? Someone able to listen with good ears and talk on your behalf ? Good. You trust your vet and vet saw prince before he came to you ? As someone as said put together all info you can think of(rspca note left,write down dates of conversations with rspca bhs vets everything even screen shots of here anything and everything photos before and after. ) methodically in a file. Get thinking girl. This is pure ***** whats happening but use these days to put together a portfolio for want of better words before you got prince and after. battle plan  sweetheart keep strong . you have given prince a second chance and his eyes ears and face speaks volumes come on girl rather than worry(easy to say) use that energy get prepared to say to the rspca "This is prince . NOW ! Big hugs x x x


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## TandD (10 October 2013)

If you can afford it it may be a good idea to get a second, completely independent opinion of your horses condition and increase in condition.

However it must be a vet that has no idea about the on going case......just give previous medical history and get the vets opinion. This will then give you an idea of what you should do and the report can be given to the RSPCA.

Good luck!


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## Amymay (10 October 2013)

No Moomin, you've simply repeated what advice has previously been given - with your own little spin.

So I'll ask you again to back off op. You have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Except to cause  intentional upset.


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## Moomin1 (10 October 2013)

amymay said:



			No Moomin, you've simply repeated what advice has previously been given - with your own little spin.

So I'll ask you again to back off op. You have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Except to cause  intentional upset.
		
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Oh get a grip. Not sure who you actually think you are?


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## Amymay (10 October 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			Not sure who you actually think you are?
		
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Simply someone trying to support the op.


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## lula (10 October 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			Oh get a grip. Not sure who you actually think you are?
		
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Isnt she Amymay?

Whether you mean to or not Moomin, you do posess what my dear old mum would call 'not a very good bedside manner'


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## MileAMinute (10 October 2013)

amymay said:



			So I'll ask you again to back off op. You have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Except to cause  intentional upset.
		
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Mooms, you best do what she says and back off. I mean, you shouldn't offer advice, or even comment, it is a public forum after all!

Ridiculous.


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## doriangrey (10 October 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			The last bit sounded harsh, what i mean is its hard to pass over every scrap of information when im trying to process it all myself. vet is coming, to check him over for my sake, and because the rspca have ordered me to get a vet out within 10-14 days. I feel that by not getting the vet out it looks like im hiding something, its also good to check up on princes liver damage and heart condition.

The vet will be coming on wednesday and a HHO member will be coming with a clear and realistic mind to handle the vet check with me
		
Click to expand...

Ah, I didn't realise he had liver damage and a heart condition.  Does he require meds?  The main thing is you've done wonders for him, I do hope things work out for you because you deserve it and so does Prince.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (10 October 2013)

The liver damage was discovered in the previous vet check that his last owner did. I mentioned it in a previous thread as well as the heart condition, i cant remember what its called, something to do with the ventricles not working properly, commonly seen in racehorses. The vet said an operation to correct the heart is undertaken but we obviously wouldnt consider that for prince for many reasons. We need to check up on these things incase princes weight gain, or amount of food hes eating is affecting either. This is my idea, not the vet or rspcas, i imagine these conditions may change but i dont know.

Oh and no meds, they werent mentioned, just the treatment for the heart condition, but she did not suggest it for prince.


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## jrp204 (10 October 2013)

Follow on from earlier conversation with AHO
Me
It was on the same livery yard as her horse. I think the vet has seen it, instructed by her. Does she have to allow a RSPCA appointed vet to see it?
Today

5:53pm
Animal health officer
no, they will have no power to onto the land (except a foot path), only the police and us have powers of entry for welfare.  If her own vet is now working for the RSPCA there would be a conflict of interest.
it looks like old posts, the august ones refer to the rspca.

I had linked the blog to him. Hope this clarifies things.


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## digitalangel (10 October 2013)

atrial fibrillation ( i have it haha ) and it wont affect his weight. jess get another vet to see him this one has conflict of interest!


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## piebaldsparkle (10 October 2013)

MileAMinute said:



			Mooms, you best do what she says and back off. I mean, you shouldn't offer advice, or even comment, it is a public forum after all!

Ridiculous.
		
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Coz this is sooooo helpful...........................NOT


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## MileAMinute (10 October 2013)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Coz this is sooooo helpful...........................NOT
		
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And that ^^ is?


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## piebaldsparkle (10 October 2013)

digitalangel said:



			jess get another vet to see him this one has conflict of interest!
		
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^^This

No way I would being paying for the services of a vet who is also representing the RSPCA.


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## Queenbee (11 October 2013)

Op so sorry, I have just read this, it's absolutely shocking. The heart condition may well. Have been triggered by his low weight, as a horse looses weight the viscosity of the blood increases and it makes it harder work for the heart to pump it around, underweight horses often develop heart murmurs, that said, it shouldn't be a factor if its not too severe. Prince to me, looks like a normal recovery case, a way to go but sure and certain improvement.  

On the one hand I agree that using your current vet could present a conflict, however on the other hand I would still have her come and assess prince as she has seen him before and monitored his progress.  I would also be straight on the phone to another veteranairy practice and getting another vet out for a second opinion, providing them with photos, measurements etcetera. To my mind, if a horse is seen to be making an improvement if only a small one, then that is indication that he is worth fighting for. 

I would not agree to the RSPCA  coming on my property, I would also make it clear in writing that the vet is allowed on the property as your vet, and not in the capacity of representative/assessor of the RSPCA.  I would acess all threads relating to prince in addition to your blog, save them to computer and print them. If the RSPCA indicate that they wish for the animal to be destroyed, I would be fighting this, ensuring that they take the matter to court to which you will provide all the evidence you have.  There is no way (sorry moomin) that I would take the assessment of one vet and the word of the RSPCA on the fate of any horse.  Just remember, as someone has already said  carrot and spud were in a far worse state and the RSPCA and their vet assessed them and thought the best course of action was to leave them in the field with no action taken!  Get yourself a good equine vet for a second opinion, and get yourself armed incase you need to battle them and know that there are people on here who can and will help you fight for prince if it comes to it.  I'm not saying that the RSPCA aren't right, they may be, but most of the time where horses are involved they aren't, I don't care if your vet is a blood relative, top of her field and you have used her all your life, do not just take one specialists opinion and allow them to rule on his fate.


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## maccachic (11 October 2013)

Im new to this story so correct me if I have it wrong, but the RSPCA were not concerned with the owner who let this horse get into this condition, but now it has been taken on by someone else who has improved his condition RSPCA are all of a sudden interested and dictating terms?

Seems to me a complaint needs to be laid higher up the chain in regards to the treatment of this horse by this organisation.


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## Sven (11 October 2013)

I've been thinking whilst mucking out this morning and if this were me and based on what I know (which I know can't possibly be everything) I would have the vet visit tell her that going forward that I would be using another vet for Prince as I was concerned she was conflicted and did not want to compromise her.  I would say that I have taken on board her advice and after consideration and a review of my situation and with the support I have, I have DECIDED to keep Prince going for at least another six months till the spring, and then review again.  OF COURSE if there was any deterioration in his condition I would do the necessary.

I would the write to the RSPCA tell them all of the above, and include the story of my association with him.  Tell them that in future if they want to see Prince they need to give me written notice and arrange a convenient time.  I would include the fact that as he has achieved 100% weight gain (not sure on this but give a percentage) I wish to continue his rehabilitation.  I would also state that all future communication must be in writing to ensure no misunderstandings.  I would also add the BHS involvement.  


You have to make a case sweetie.

I see no point in getting into a spat with them, you must show them that you are a grown up, you have support, and that you won't be bullied.  Getting into a fight now will not help your case, so keep calm and carry on !


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## Jaycee (12 October 2013)

There is an interesting news feature on www.news.rspca.org.uk regarding a mare and foal reunited with owner after being stolen 6 years ago,  it states that the ponies were malnurished and weak (one of them could hardly stand) and that it took 6 MONTHS before they were anywhere near back to their correct weight.

Clearly the officer who deemed that Prince should be back upto weight in a month had no idea what they were talking about!
Incidentally I had a horse that was 250kg underweight when I took her on loan, (long story as to why she was in that condition) she certainly took longer than a month, if I remember rightly it was closer to a year before she was her target weight!


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## SonnysHumanSlave (12 October 2013)

Im only in Ipswich so really really close, if you want I can pm you my number and if you want some back up/witnesses when they come, I can come and assist you. Only like 5 mins away.


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## Bigbenji (16 October 2013)

Please let us know how things go today. So many of us are rooting for Prince. 
Hopefully you have someone with you to offer support.


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## _GG_ (16 October 2013)

Bigbenji said:



			Please let us know how things go today. So many of us are rooting for Prince. 
Hopefully you have someone with you to offer support.
		
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Well remembered...

Jess, good luck today, I hope your HHO friend can be a great support to you today. Do let us know how you get on as Bigbenji says and also, another one saying you have lots of people thinking of you and Prince


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## Adopter (16 October 2013)

Been thinking about you and Prince all week, sending positive vibes for today.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (16 October 2013)

Its tomorrow now, hho lady couldnt make today and i would be useless alone. I will update when everything is done, it still a mystery, could be bloods taken and they may take a while to come back. I just dont know, but right now hes cosy, his usual grumpy self and eating. Im currently atop kyra about to trot some spirals and straights trying to feel for anything odd, shes been sound on trot ups all week but i havent ridden her in so long everything feels different, vet said if shes still lame shes check tomorrow. How long would it take a recovered laminitic to come back into work?


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## babymare (16 October 2013)

Well keep us updated jess.another sneaking on at work for update  x x


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## Amymay (17 October 2013)

Good luck today!


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## teacups (17 October 2013)

Bit late in the day, but is there any chance the visit could be video'd? It would provide a completely independent record, and you could also play it back to check what the vet said.

Apart from that, good luck!


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## southerncomfort (17 October 2013)

Good luck Jess!  Thinking of you today.


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## Dollysox (17 October 2013)

And another good luck for you today.  Will be keeping everything crossed for you.


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## dianchi (17 October 2013)

Good Luck! Fingers x!


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 October 2013)

Any news?? Xx


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## _GG_ (17 October 2013)

As above ^^. Hope it's all gone as well as it could for you x


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## Moomin1 (17 October 2013)

Hope the best decision was made for Prince.


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## cbmcts (17 October 2013)

Jessi has asked me to post this for her as I was there today.

Prince was pts at lunchtime today, not because he was a welfare case, the vet was delighted with his progress since Jessi took him on - but because his underlying issues that meant that he was likely to struggle through the winter. He was showing signs of liver damage, bad arthritis in his hocks and of course the heart damage, not surprising since he was so badly neglected for so many years. Jessi very bravely, decided that it was better for him  to go today in reasonable health and a full belly with the sun on his back rather than risk him struggling through bad weather and having to be PTS as an emergency case.

Prince was a lovely boy and I was pleasantly surprised - as was the vet - how good he looked today, not at all skinny, he just looked like an old horse lacking in topline really. He felt well enough to boss Jessi's mare around and to demand headrubs  That girl worked wonders on him and I feel privileged to have met them both.

RIP Prince.


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## MotherOfChickens (17 October 2013)

((hugs)) for all, well done Jessi on all counts, glad Prince got some comfort and someone to look after him at the end.


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## Ladyinred (17 October 2013)

RIP Prince xxx


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## Amymay (17 October 2013)

Thank you cbmcts for supporting Jess in this matter. 

Rip Prince.


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## Sven (17 October 2013)

Condolences to Jessie, she has done the best she could for him he was lucky to find her and enjoy some tlc in his twilight days.  RIP Prince


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## Moomin1 (17 October 2013)

I'm confused.  Wasn't the vet aware of these issues a month ago?  What's changed now all of a sudden?


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## Biglets Mummy (17 October 2013)

amymay said:



			Thank you cbmats for supporting Jess in this matter. 

Rip Prince.
		
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Sending you big hugs and much love at this hard time. What you did for Prince was fantastic and my heart goes out to you.xxxx


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## khalswitz (17 October 2013)

I've been a lurker with regards to all things Prince so far, but had to comment on this turn of events - well done to Jess for being brave, and lots of hugs. You did so well with him, you went above and beyond, and it's heartbreaking that his underlying problems were just too much. At least he had a happy ending. RIP.


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## Ibblebibble (17 October 2013)

A very noble decision for a very noble old horse. so sorry for your loss Jess, Rest peacefully knowing you were loved Prince.xx


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## Ibblebibble (17 October 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			I'm confused.  Wasn't the vet aware of these issues a month ago?  What's changed now all of a sudden?
		
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why can't you just back off for a while and let Jess have some time to deal with this before you start with your interrogations!!


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## happyhack (17 October 2013)

I've been following this and Jess has done such an amazing job, and she shouldn't feel disheartened at todays outcome. 

He will rest in peace knowing he was well loved. He was a very lucky boy to have ended up with her. 

RIP Prince, travel well. 

xx


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## Moomin1 (17 October 2013)

Ibblebibble said:



			why can't you just back off for a while and let Jess have some time to deal with this before you start with your interrogations!!
		
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It is a genuine question? I don't get what's changed?  The whole thread has been about how much he has improved and shouldn't be pts. So genuinely surprised that all of a sudden OP has made the decision to pts that's all.


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## Nettle123 (17 October 2013)

He has had a great summer being pampered. It was the right decision before the onset of winter. Well done for taking him on and making him feel special.


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## Ladyinred (17 October 2013)

Don't come the inocent, you commented to stir. Again.

FGS search deep within yourself and find the little spark of sympathy that must be there somewhere and leave the poor girl to grieve for the horse she loved.


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## cbmcts (17 October 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			I'm confused.  Wasn't the vet aware of these issues a month ago?  What's changed now all of a sudden?
		
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The vet may have been (as she was his previous owners vet too) but Jessi didn't have access to those records due to DP or something similar. When she took him on he was in such a state that the priority was to feed, worm and get his teeth done and hope for the best and make any decisions later. The big change of course is that it is mid October with a hard winter forecast!

Moomin, 

Be kind please. I know you can be as you've been very kind to me in the past. Jessi gave this horse a chance at great cost to herself both financially and emotionally. He had a lovely few months after life long neglect and for that alone, I hope she feels like all the effort was worth it. There are very few people who would do what she has done and as we all know there are very few fairy tale endings but that doesn't mean that it wasn't worth it.


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## hayinamanger (17 October 2013)

Dear Jess, you have made a brave decision and I'm sure it was very hard to let him go, but in your heart you know it was absolutely the right thing to do.  You made such a difference to his life, he was lucky in the end.

RIP Prince


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## MissTyc (17 October 2013)

It sounds like the best outcome all round, to be honest, as long as Jess was comfortable with the decision.


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## Spring Feather (17 October 2013)

Oh crumbs.  I honestly didn't see that coming.  I guess we do what we can for our horses and at least Prince had a few months of being pampered.  RIP Prince.


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## Slinkyunicorn (17 October 2013)

RIP Prince  

Jessi so sorry to hear this - you gave the lovely boy love and comfort and care in his last days and he wasn't suffering anymore - that is what matters. 

Many hugs to you xxx


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## Dollysox (17 October 2013)

Jessi - you have been truly amazing with the care, love and concern you have had for Prince.  After such a hard life he had a wonderful few weeks knowing that he was loved, cared for and had a full tummy.  You made an incredibly brave decision today, one that only a person who truly loved their horse could make, and you ensured that a lovely old chap went out in style.

cbmcts - your support and concern for Jessi & Prince does you credit.

RIP Prince - you will be remembered for a long time.  Lots of love to you Jessi - be kind to yourself.


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## Maesfen (17 October 2013)

Condolences Jess, you made an old man very happy for his last few months, don't let anyone take that away from you. xx


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## Fools Motto (17 October 2013)

Just like to add my sympathies. You did a fabulous job on getting Prince look, more like a Prince! You should give yourself a medal.  May Prince be at peace now, forever loved. x


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## Equinus (17 October 2013)

So sorry


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## ridefast (17 October 2013)

HUGE hugs Jess, you did a fantastic job with him and lovely to see how happy and healthy he was looking in your pictures. RIP Prince. I hope your mare is also on the mend, I can't remember how long mine took to recover but I think it was about 6 months before he was back to full fitness, just took everything slowly xx


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## wyrdsister (17 October 2013)

I too have been lurking here. Sympathies, Jess, hold onto the fact that you gave him a few lovely months being cared for and that's all he will have been aware of until it was over. Horses tend to live in the moment; you made his last ones safe, contented and loved.


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## sarahann1 (17 October 2013)

So sorry to hear this Jess, you did an amazing thing taking on Price, you gave him a lovely last few months. RIP Prince.


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## PolarSkye (17 October 2013)

I have a lump in my throat - which is nothing compared to how Jess must be feeling - Prince knew love and kindness in his last months, thanks to Jess - RIP Prince and big hugs to Jess.

P


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## BlackRider (17 October 2013)

Jess I'm so sorry to hear this, you have been an angel for him, and given him a lovely summer, which I'm sure he has loved.

RIP Prince x


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## EventingMum (17 October 2013)

Jessi, my heart goes out to you, you must be devastated. You couldn't have done more and stepped in where many wouldn't have and ensured Prince was treated with the best possible care in the eve of his days. I applaud your decision, tough as it must have been, as it's often said better a week too soon than a day too late.


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## Sven (17 October 2013)

amymay said:



			Thank you cbmcts for supporting Jess in this matter. 

Rip Prince.
		
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Hear hear, forgot to say that before.


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## Elsbells (17 October 2013)

So sad Jess, but remember that you gave him what he needed when he needed it, you tried your best and never once turned your back on him. He was loved. Keep strong, take with you through life the lessons that he taught you, the love that you shared and the memories that you'll treasure. 

Run free boy.


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## EmmaB (17 October 2013)

Just read this whole thread, how heartbreaking. You did everything you could and changed his life during these last few months, well done for fighting for him for so long, I'm so sorry it ended this way but you made the best decision for him. RIP Prince.


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## Hedgewitch13 (17 October 2013)

Oh that's so sad  Well done Jess for giving this poor old soul a good month or two xx


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## Cavalier (17 October 2013)

God bless you Jess for all you did for Prince. Cmbcts how kind of you to have been there. 

RIP sweetheart


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## DragonSlayer (17 October 2013)

You gave a him a great end, you allowed him to go with dignity.

There should be other people like you, and to those who supported you through this. Fabulous work.

RIP Prince


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## jrp204 (17 October 2013)

Jess, you gave an old man compassion and love. You shouldn't have had to deal with the other pressures put on you. Prince is in that big green field, fat as butter enjoying the sun. Big hugs to you.


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## FlaxenPony05 (17 October 2013)

So sorry Jess.


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## babymare (17 October 2013)

Oh jess sweetheart im so so sorry. But you gave Prince so much care and love in those finals monthsHe blossomed under your care. My heart goes out to you but please pleease in time smile and remember you showed a horse what love and care are. No other words just a big hug. i am crying tears for you tonight.Be proud of what you achieved x x x x x


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (17 October 2013)

Thank you, everyone. The kind words are lovely, and i really appreciate it.

I hope that Prince had a good few months, a lot better than being left in a field to rot.
The decision was mine, not the one i wanted, but the one that was fair. I wanted to fix him, I wanted so badly for him to just need food and love, but it was much more than that. When the vet told me he couldn't be fixed it made my mind up. It was today in the field he knows with company and food or possibly in an emergency when his liver fails/heart fails or his arthritis gets worse.
I decided he would never suffer again, never feel hunger and never feel pain.

I feel heartless sometimes but mostly angry. I haven't got to being upset yet. I am angry that this wasn't dealt with sooner, I'm angry that he suffered for years, angry that his blood in on my hands on not that of the person who caused such damage.

Prince went with ears pricked and he knew love. Even it was for a short time.

I miss him dearly. I've seen him in that field for the last 10 years, and for the first time its empty.

Jessica x


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## babymare (17 October 2013)

I also want to thank you cmbcts for being with jess. You have helped a remarkable young lady through a hard time. Thank you for being there x x


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## Luci07 (17 October 2013)

So sorry Jess.... You have shown remarkable courage over this. RIP Prince..


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## Slinkyunicorn (17 October 2013)

I can totally understand your anger Jessica but you showed him love and kindness which is what he knew up until his last minute  DO NOT beat yourself up over what happened before you can only do what you do at the time - and you DID the right thing for Prince 

And cmbcts does indeed need thanks for being there to support you today 

Jessica - why not post some of the last photos you have of him looking fat and shiny and loved - the way to remember him now and forever


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## babymare (17 October 2013)

Jess please remember there are alot of people here who will always be there for you through the anger the tears what ever emotion. X x x x


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## babymare (17 October 2013)

Agree with slinky about photos but only if and when you feel up to it sweetheart. x x x


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## mil1212 (17 October 2013)

So sad to read this, but Jessi, you truly made the bravest decision that the heartless soul who had him previously obviously couldn't be bothered to make. He felt loved and cared for if only for a short time, tonight I raise my glass to you both. I am glad to see you had some support today.


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## Sussexbythesea (17 October 2013)

So sorry to hear this sad news Jess  

You have been amazing throughout and gave this lovely boy the love and care he deserved. You made a very brave decision today. 

RIP Prince xx


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## Rudolph's Red Nose (17 October 2013)

I have only lurked on yr previous posts and read your blog - I am so so sorry for your loss.  

You absolutely did the best for Prince,  you kept fighting for him as you knew it was the right thing to do and today again you made the decision best for him, however hard it was for you, please be very proud you stood up to fight for him and made his last days very happy ones.  RIP Prince and a hug for you Jessi xx


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## Mahoganybay (17 October 2013)

So very sorry, you did all you could. I hope when the anger fades and the tears have stopped flowing you will feel proud of yourself xx


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## SadKen (17 October 2013)

RIP Prince. I am so happy that you had jess for those precious months, and knew love and care and tenderness at the end.


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## Cazzah (17 October 2013)

So so sorry to read this - have been thinking of you all day, Jess, and checking the thread. RIP Prince who knew love and care from a special girl in his last few months. xx


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## ester (17 October 2013)

my condolences Jess, he would have been so much more stuck without you and he went knowing a better life. 

cbmcts am sure Jess was very grateful for the more direct support than we can give.


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (17 October 2013)

cbmcts was fantastic. She didn't need to come all the way to see us, but she did and without her i would have been an absolute wreck. She and my vet advised me on the best options and using their joint experience could explain things to me more easily.
I owe her everything, she stayed with me all day from start to finish and helped me to organised myself and prince.
He really liked her and cbmcts showed him lots of love.


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## 3Beasties (17 October 2013)

RIP Prince, you went happy and loved, with a full belly which is all any horse deserves.

Well done Jess for making such a brave but difficult decision.


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## Slinkyunicorn (17 October 2013)

So glad you had support on such a hard day:frown3:

This forum never ceases to amaze me with the kindness and generosity that is shown to virtual strangers in their time of need  

cbmcts has shown that today


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## FionaM12 (17 October 2013)

Thank you Jessi for giving the poor lad a few months of love and decent health. It was an act of great kindness and generosity, and your decision today must have been very hard.  Sometimes the bravest thing really is to let them go and avoid further suffering.

I know you must be terribly sad now, but in time you will have happy memories and you'll always know you did the best for him.


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## doriangrey (17 October 2013)

So sorry you had to go through this, especially heart breaking as he seemed on the mend.  I, for one, didn't realise what the extent of his health issues were.  I can't begin to know what you are going through, but it is obvious you had a special bond with Prince xx


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## Po Knee (17 October 2013)

Oh Jessi, I have such admiration for the way you fought tooth and nail to give Prince the love and kindness he deserved. He was a beautiful boy and you clearly loved him immensely. 

RIP Prince, and take care Jessi xx


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## babymare (17 October 2013)

I agree . this forum just steps up to the mark time and time again and support either by group or by indivuduals just shines. and having experinced it myself thats why i keep coming back. i salute all who have been there for jess from beginning x x x


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## dianchi (17 October 2013)

Oh jessi you've bought me to tears, what a brave decision you make. I can only hope that when the time comes for me to step up that I can be as brave as you.

Run free prince you were loved By many more than you knew x


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## EllenJay (17 October 2013)

Thanks Jess for giving this poor old boy love and a good few months.  You have made absolutely the right decision.

RIP Prince xx


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## Leo Walker (17 October 2013)

I'm crying my eyes out reading this. Well done Jess for showing an old horse a few months of happiness, and well done for not allowing him to suffer. And well done the HHO member whose name I cant remember, who was there for you and him. RIP Prince, gallop pain free over the Rainbow Bridge


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## jodie3 (17 October 2013)

Sometimes I despair of this forum and think I won't bother coming back but then something like this thread comes up and it makes me realise that 99% of the people on here are good, genuine people who have a true love of horses and all things equine.

Jess, you stepped up and tried your best for Prince over a long period of time.  It is thanks to you that he passed today happy, warm, fed and loved.  It is the hardest decision any of us have to make for our animals but you were brave enough to make it for a horse you obviously adored. 

I am so sorry for you that despite your best efforts the long term damage caused by someone else's neglect meant you had to make the decision but I hope you realise you have the admiration and respect of this forum and in time you will realise what an amazing thing you did.

Hugs to you at this difficult time.


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## Shantara (17 October 2013)

Oh no  I'm so so sorry.

You did the right thing and I'm so sorry that it was you that had to do the right thing. But, you showed him kindness and care and I'm sure he loved you dearly for it xx

R.I.P Prince xx


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## buffy2 (17 October 2013)

Hugs to you Jess,R.I.P Prince


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## cbmcts (17 October 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			cbmcts was fantastic. She didn't need to come all the way to see us, but she did and without her i would have been an absolute wreck. She and my vet advised me on the best options and using their joint experience could explain things to me more easily.
I owe her everything, she stayed with me all day from start to finish and helped me to organised myself and prince.
He really liked her and cbmcts showed him lots of love.
		
Click to expand...

Oh Jess,

I think I was the wreck! 

Prince was very easy to love - proud and a touch cranky to the end. He went with dignity and allowing him that is possibly the hardest thing to do but you did it.

It was great to meet you and your lovely horses. 

x


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## piebaldsparkle (17 October 2013)

So Sorry Jessi to hear your news. Xxxx

RIP Prince


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## texas (17 October 2013)

All you've ever wanted is to do what's right for Prince,  and you are braver than me. Sending lots of hugs. Rip Prince.


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## Regandal (17 October 2013)

So very, very sorry Jess.  You never turned your back on him, and he went loved and cared for.  Take care. M  XX


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## Sparklepony (17 October 2013)

Bless you for giving him love and safety, and letting him go with dignity. 

Rip prince, say hi to my boys and girls up there xxx

Hugs hun xxxxx


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## jenki13 (17 October 2013)

Big hugs Jess! 
Prince knew for the first time in years how it felt to be happy, full & loved. You fought for him every step of the way so he had a summer filled with warmth and kindness and then you took the hard decision to let him go before he showed any pain, you are incredibly strong.
When the anger has gone remember those happy months.
R.I.P Prince, gallop over rainbow bridge


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## MochaDun (17 October 2013)

Jess I'm so sorry but thank you for doing everything you did for Prince, please be proud of yourself as you selflessly gave everything you could for him and gave him a comfortable end.  He would thank you if he could.  And thank you too cbmcts for being both their guardian angel today.  I always find it's the people who try the hardest and do the most for their horses that seem to lose the most in life which seems so unfair somehow.  RIP Prince x


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## Fjord (17 October 2013)

I am so sorry Jess, you gave him a lovely few months and have done your absolute best with him.


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## ElleSkywalker (17 October 2013)

Jessi, you were Princes' guardian angel, now he will be yours  

Huge hugs, you lovely brave girl, you & cbmcts are heroes in my eyes xxx


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## Archangel (17 October 2013)

So sorry Jess.  RIP Prince.


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## MrsMozart (17 October 2013)

Hugs darling.

Rest in peace Prince lad, know you were loved and cared for.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 October 2013)

RIP Prince  xxxxxx


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## JFTDWS (17 October 2013)

Well done.  I know that sounds an odd thing to say, but you made a tough decision, and you made the right call for Prince.   You should be very proud of everything you've done for him.


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## Native Speaker (17 October 2013)

Rest assured you made the right decision for Prince, Jess.  He left this world having known a little love, tenderness and compassion.

RIP, Prince.

C xx


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## Noodles_3 (17 October 2013)

Rip Prince  

My condolences to you Jess, what a brave decision. Prince couldn't of wished for a better owner and life than what you gave him so you should feel proud he got to experience that love in his final months. Xxx


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## Arizahn (17 October 2013)

Hugs, Jess  He was lucky to have you to care for him. RIP Prince x


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## _GG_ (17 October 2013)

cbmcts said:



			Jessi has asked me to post this for her as I was there today.

Prince was pts at lunchtime today, not because he was a welfare case, the vet was delighted with his progress since Jessi took him on - but because his underlying issues that meant that he was likely to struggle through the winter. He was showing signs of liver damage, bad arthritis in his hocks and of course the heart damage, not surprising since he was so badly neglected for so many years. Jessi very bravely, decided that it was better for him  to go today in reasonable health and a full belly with the sun on his back rather than risk him struggling through bad weather and having to be PTS as an emergency case.

Prince was a lovely boy and I was pleasantly surprised - as was the vet - how good he looked today, not at all skinny, he just looked like an old horse lacking in topline really. He felt well enough to boss Jessi's mare around and to demand headrubs  That girl worked wonders on him and I feel privileged to have met them both.

RIP Prince.
		
Click to expand...

cbmcts - thank you for updating us, can't have been easy for you either!

Jess, you absolutely made the right decision for Prince. Horrible, heart breaking and it will take time to sink in but you really did do the best thing for him. My hats off to you for that and many many hugs xxx


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## smellsofhorse (17 October 2013)

R.I.P Prince.

Jess

You should be proud of what you did for him in the short time you had him.


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## martlin (17 October 2013)

So sorry Jess, RIP Prince


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## Merrymoles (17 October 2013)

JFTD said:



			Well done.  I know that sounds an odd thing to say, but you made a tough decision, and you made the right call for Prince.   You should be very proud of everything you've done for him.
		
Click to expand...

Jftd sums up my thoughts. Very tough for you and cbmcts today but could have been so much worse for Prince so well done. Hugs


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## Adopter (17 October 2013)

Jess I am so sorry that you had to be the brave one to make the right decision, it was not what you  wished for, but it was the courageous, caring choice made with the same love  that  fought for Prince to be free of hunger and loneliness, and you have given him that.  

Run free Prince. Sending hugs to you Jess, and thanks to cbmcts.


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## ozpoz (17 October 2013)

Jess, I admire you for all your unselfishness, right to the end. So sorry to hear of Prince reaching the end of his road, a hard one , but ultimately loved and cared for. 
And cbmcts - very well done too.
 xx


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## star26 (17 October 2013)

Such sad news, but it sounds like it was the best decision in the long run- Especially if we have another long, hard winter coming. 

Jess- You really did SO much for Prince, you completely changed his life- giving him a summer of food, love and pampering. He was out of solitary confinement and joined a new herd- he was happy and content. He looked so well in those pics last week but the internal damage from years of neglect was obviously too much to fix. 

You did that horse proud and your decision today just shows how caring and unselfish you are. 
Lots of hugs.xx

R.I.P Prince.Xxx


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## E13 (18 October 2013)

He had a wonderful summer. The sun was on his back. RIP Prince xx


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## cambrica (18 October 2013)

Oh Jess, if everyone cared for their horses in the way you did for Prince the world would be a much happier place. So sorry to read this but be very proud of what you acheived with him. I am so pleased you had Cbmcts there to support you, what a wonderful lady!
R.I.P Prince - you live on in the hearts of many.


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## Circe (18 October 2013)

So sorry for your loss. 
Prince was loved at the end, you should be proud of yourself
Kx


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## GrumpyHero (18 October 2013)

RIP Prince.
Jessi, you should be so proud of yourself for giving an old horse a good few months. He should have been loved like you loved him for all of his life, what a shame his previous owner didn't appreciate him. At least he went knowing warmth, kindness and with a full belly.

Don't be hard on yourself xx


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## Hetsmum (18 October 2013)

Have followed this from the beginning.  So very sorry for your loss Jess.  You have done a wonderful thing for Prince and no horse could have asked for more.  It is such a hard decision to make and many are not brave enough to make it.  RIP Prince... forever free xxx


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## DJ (18 October 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			I feel heartless sometimes but mostly angry. I haven't got to being upset yet. I am angry that this wasn't dealt with sooner, I'm angry that he suffered for years, angry that his blood in on my hands on not that of the person who caused such damage.
		
Click to expand...

My dear girl, do not feel angry for what has been ....... Those circumstances are what brought him to you, for him to be loved, to feel cherished and to bow out graciously with people who cared about him, there with him til his last breath. Feel sad for those who did not appreciate his magnificence. You touched his soul ... just as he has touched yours, and though they leave a gaping hole when they go, that hole soon fills with the precious memories they leave with us. Feel sad for them, for the love they never experienced ..... feel grief for yourself at losing a kindred spirit ... but know always, he`s there with you, his spirit dances on the winds, and whispers through the trees ... Please be kind to yourself and concentrate on your mare ... she needs you now honey xx


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## southerncomfort (18 October 2013)

Jess - You are such a brave and selfless person.  You fought tooth and nail to save Prince and when it became obvious that he probably didn't have much time left, you made the selfless decision to let him go before he suffered.

I hope one day you can look back and be proud of your actions and all the love and kindness you showed Prince in his final days.

God bless.  xx


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## Biglets Mummy (18 October 2013)

daisysp8 said:



			My dear girl, do not feel angry for what has been ....... Those circumstances are what brought him to you, for him to be loved, to feel cherished and to bow out graciously with people who cared about him, there with him til his last breath. Feel sad for those who did not appreciate his magnificence. You touched his soul ... just as he has touched yours, and though they leave a gaping hole when they go, that hole soon fills with the precious memories they leave with us. Feel sad for them, for the love they never experienced ..... feel grief for yourself at losing a kindred spirit ... but know always, he`s there with you, his spirit dances on the winds, and whispers through the trees ... Please be kind to yourself and concentrate on your mare ... she needs you now honey xx
		
Click to expand...

What beautiful words. be kind to yourself Jessie.xxxx


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## Tangled (18 October 2013)

I'm so sorry to read this Jessi. I've been following your story and your plight for Prince from the beginning. I'm so sorry, RIP Prince. Massive hugs xxx


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## Nannon (18 October 2013)

You should be so proud of what you did for him, just to give him a few months of love and kindness was a wonderful thing and to let him go without pain or suffering. 
RIP Prince


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## splashnutti1 (18 October 2013)

awww so sorry to hear this hun, you should be proud of everything you did for Prince and for the brave decision you made for him, he was lucky to have you love him.

Big (((hugs))) for you. Rip prince xx


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## Clodagh (18 October 2013)

You did brilliantly with him. He was loved, well looked after and happy and had a lovely last few months with a full tum and the sun on his back.
RIP Prince.


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## Zero00000 (18 October 2013)

I too have followed this story, You never gave up on Prince and right down to his final breath you had his best intentions at heart.

Condolences to you Jess, Well done for everything you did for him! He was a lucky boy xx


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## ShadowHunter (18 October 2013)

oh Jess, my screens gone all blurry. 

You were a lot braver than i would have been and because of that Prince wont have to struggle through any pain. You gave him so much in his last few months than he's had for most of his life. 

RIP Prince, You'll never be forgotten


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## LittleMonster (18 October 2013)

RIP Prince

Jess i'm sorry to hear this, I'm glad someone was with you to support you.
My thoughts are with you, and well done for giving him some well much needed love and food!


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## Megibo (18 October 2013)

RIP Prince. Hugs for you Jess. xx


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## TheSylv007 (18 October 2013)

Very sad news.  The saddest thing is the lack of care shown by the previous owner leading to Prince being in the situation he was in.  I hope he's ashamed of himself.  But hats off to Jess who fought so hard for him and made sure that he didn't finish his life in the way that he was forced to live it.  Props to you and I hope that it brings you some comfort.


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## Ruth_Cymru (18 October 2013)

I'm so sorry to read this.  You were his rock from start to end.

Rest in peace Prince x x


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## Penny Less (18 October 2013)

So sorry to read this, you have been wonderful Jess. At least he was happy in his last months


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## Doormouse (18 October 2013)

daisysp8 said:



			My dear girl, do not feel angry for what has been ....... Those circumstances are what brought him to you, for him to be loved, to feel cherished and to bow out graciously with people who cared about him, there with him til his last breath. Feel sad for those who did not appreciate his magnificence. You touched his soul ... just as he has touched yours, and though they leave a gaping hole when they go, that hole soon fills with the precious memories they leave with us. Feel sad for them, for the love they never experienced ..... feel grief for yourself at losing a kindred spirit ... but know always, he`s there with you, his spirit dances on the winds, and whispers through the trees ... Please be kind to yourself and concentrate on your mare ... she needs you now honey xx
		
Click to expand...

This brought a real lump to my throat and tears to my eyes, quite beautifully put.

I am so sorry Jess but be proud of what you did and know he was and is eternally grateful to you.


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## TrasaM (18 October 2013)

daisysp8 said:



			My dear girl, do not feel angry for what has been ....... Those circumstances are what brought him to you, for him to be loved, to feel cherished and to bow out graciously with people who cared about him, there with him til his last breath. Feel sad for those who did not appreciate his magnificence. You touched his soul ... just as he has touched yours, and though they leave a gaping hole when they go, that hole soon fills with the precious memories they leave with us. Feel sad for them, for the love they never experienced ..... feel grief for yourself at losing a kindred spirit ... but know always, he`s there with you, his spirit dances on the winds, and whispers through the trees ... Please be kind to yourself and concentrate on your mare ... she needs you now honey xx
		
Click to expand...

Thank you for phrasing this so beautifully. I've tried to post a few times but anything I wrote seemed so inadequate. Even my non horsey OH was upset as I've been showing him the photos and telling him about Prince. Take care sweetie. You did good. Xx


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