# Cannot believe what I just saw on BBC1



## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11829989&h=1cedc

The video speaks for itself, watch the poor horse get a beating for spooking at a blimmin firework. I was disgusted with the Avon and Somerset Constabulary and have made a complaint


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## naza (24 November 2010)

I agree i think that, that is appalling!!


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## Rollin (24 November 2010)

Sadly as I don't do facebook I cannot comment.


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## Seahorse (24 November 2010)

What sort of ****** throws fireworks at horses anyway? But I agree that was a horrible beating that horse got for just being scared.


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## wipeout (24 November 2010)

Rollin said:



			Sadly as I don't do facebook I cannot comment.
		
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Here is the direct link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11829989


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## SmartieBean09 (24 November 2010)

You are kidding me?  What on earth is he doing!!!


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## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

I dont think it takes you to facebook it just takes you to the video on the BBC website.


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## bryngelenponies (24 November 2010)

Rollin said:



			Sadly as I don't do facebook I cannot comment.
		
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Try this instead then: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11829989

It really is awful that he did that- any horse would have been terrified in that situation no matter how much training they may have had. Must have been a very stressful experience between the fireworks and the mobs of people walking towards them.

Just saw that the link has already been added..oops!


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## GeeGeeboy (24 November 2010)

I couldnt see the vid, what happened?


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## MurphysMinder (24 November 2010)

Hmm, having looked at that twice I don't think he is "beating" the horse.  Its hard to describe but those sticks they carry (don't know the correct name) are a bit like a magic wand, in sections and they have to be snapped to become one rigid baton, it looks to me as if he was just fixing the baton before he approached the crowd.


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## TheMule (24 November 2010)

I personally dont call that a beating.
It got two cracks on the backside, it had a sheet on. It spun round and shouldnt have- the others backed away, quite reasonably.


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## stencilface (24 November 2010)

TBH, they probably do training for this, and maybe the horse shouldn't have reacted that way.  I see the horse got hit, but couldn't see that it got a 'beating'.  It also as a rug on, so most of their hits (if they went on the rear?) would not have been felt as much anyway.

I far more disgusted at the total pr*ck that let the firework off in the first place. 

There are far far worse acts of cruelty to worry about.  Its a high stress situation I can imagine, and the horse perhaps needed bringing back in line to make it safer for everyone involved.


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## Cuppatea (24 November 2010)

MurphysMinder said:



			Hmm, having looked at that twice I don't think he is "beating" the horse.  Its hard to describe but those sticks they carry (don't know the correct name) are a bit like a magic wand, in sections and they have to be snapped to become one rigid baton, it looks to me as if he was just fixing the baton before he approached the crowd.
		
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/\/\this/\/\


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## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

I have complained about the person riding that horse to the Avon and Somerset Constabulary. You expect it from the yobs throwing bloody fireworks but you dont expect to see a police officer hit a horse with something he/she uses as a weapon against thugs!!


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## SusieT (24 November 2010)

I didn't see any beating.  I sawtwo smacks on a reflective rug..so not much impact made there..
A police horse has to go forward when asked or they are no use as a police horse. Those are despicable people who THREW the firework in the first place, and I guess that particular horse along with the others may well undergo further training to deal with fireworks etc.


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## GinnieRedwings (24 November 2010)

Well spotted. With his batton too!


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## m3gan (24 November 2010)

MurphysMinder said:



			Hmm, having looked at that twice I don't think he is "beating" the horse.  Its hard to describe but those sticks they carry (don't know the correct name) are a bit like a magic wand, in sections and they have to be snapped to become one rigid baton, it looks to me as if he was just fixing the baton before he approached the crowd.
		
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That is what I thought, it didn't appear that the rider was making contact with the horse, but waving it at the crowd. 
Poor horses! How on earth they remain able to stay with 4 feet on the ground is a miracle to me!


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## wipeout (24 November 2010)

I think it is unclear unless there is footage from a different angle. It could be argued that he was not hitting the horse.


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## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

well whatever you want to call it, a whack or whatever, it shouldn't happen. that horse should have been reassured not whacked in my view, regardless of whether it had a rug on or not!


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## quirky (24 November 2010)

Nope, don't see a problem there.

If he wanted the horse to go forward and it wouldn't, a couple of cracks on its backside is the right thing to do.
I don't think you actually get the full sequence of events from that clip.

As for complaining about the officer, I am gob smacked .


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## sunshine19 (24 November 2010)

SusieT said:



			I didn't see any beating.  I sawtwo smacks on a reflective rug..so not much impact made there..
A police horse has to go forward when asked or they are no use as a police horse. Those are despicable people who THREW the firework in the first place, and I guess that particular horse along with the others may well undergo further training to deal with fireworks etc.
		
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I agree with this. These are specially trained horses. It got 2 smacks, on top of a sheet, to go forward. What did you want the officer to do??? Pat it on the neck, while it wiped out a MOP or officers on the ground reversing backwards?


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## Spudlet (24 November 2010)

I agree with MurphysMinder.I don't think he made any contact with the horse anyway - I think he was sorting his baton.

The batons the police use are SOLID (I know because my dad was a copper, I don't get arrested regularly), if you whacked a horse with one you would get one hell of a reaction IMO! I don't believe that the horse was hit with the baton.


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## TheEquineOak (24 November 2010)

In my opinion, it looks like he's waving his baton to get the officers on the ground to move forward.  It's a shakey view.

Well done to the poor horse in the main shot though!!


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## bryngelenponies (24 November 2010)

I don't see why it makes a difference that the horse was wearing a reflective sheet. It doesn't having any filling to absorb the blow. Surely you feel the same pain whether you're smacked with or without a windbreaker on (the equivalent of a no-fill sheet)??


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## sunshine19 (24 November 2010)

lastphoenix said:



			that horse should have been reassured not whacked in my view, regardless of whether it had a rug on or not!
		
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## andraste (24 November 2010)

lastphoenix said:



			that horse should have been reassured not whacked in my view, regardless of whether it had a rug on or not!
		
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Reassuring scared horses makes them worse - it confirms to them that there was something worthy of being scared of in the first place.  You need to be firm so that they take confidence from you.  Pretty much what the policeman was doing.


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## Ladyfresha (24 November 2010)

That does not look like a horse getting a beating. The video isn't that good, not good enough quality for any conclusions to be drawn.


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## Ted's mum (24 November 2010)

oh my....think you need to get off your soapboxes...


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## JaneyP (24 November 2010)

I dont think he is hitting the horse either it looks more like he has thrust his baton to his full length then is directing the men on the ground.


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## Brontie (24 November 2010)

quirky said:



			Nope, don't see a problem there.

If he wanted the horse to go forward and it wouldn't, a couple of cracks on its backside is the right thing to do.
I don't think you actually get the full sequence of events from that clip.

As for complaining about the officer, I am gob smacked .
		
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Ditto this.

ETA. The batons the mounted officers have, are solid. Unlike those on foot who have Asp's that extend. However, despite this. I still believe he was directing the other officers / getting ready, and not "beating" the horse.


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## JaneyP (24 November 2010)

Oh god the more i watch it the more i cant decide !! Pass !!


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## metalmare (24 November 2010)

I've watched the clip twice too and

1) can't hand on heart say that he made contact with the horse.
2) would personally, if a horse was backing towards people or another hazard such as a vehicle, canal, etc give a horse a couple of sharp smacks to send it on out of preference to having an accident.
3) think that the mounted police do an excellent job when confronted with the scum of the earth!

I once saw a horse hit around the head with the reins for refusing a jump - now that's an inappropriate punishment.  But sending a horse on with a sharp smack in a dangerous situation I think is a much more grey area!


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## JanetGeorge (24 November 2010)

lastphoenix said:



			but you dont expect to see a police officer hit a horse with something he/she uses as a weapon against thugs!!
		
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Quite right - far better that they use it to bash a student's brains in!

(And actually - I'd rather it was used over a hi-viz rug to send a horse forward than that it WAS used on the head of a protester!)




			Reassuring scared horses makes them worse - it confirms to them that there was something worthy of being scared of in the first place. You need to be firm so that they take confidence from you.
		
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That's certainly true in many situations - and certainly in THIS situation.  Although having watched the video 3 times I am still not sure if he hit the horse - or if he was just fixing the baton.


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## MizzPurpleKitten (24 November 2010)

I have to agree with what some others have said, having watched the video twice it really doesn't seem as if the police officer in question actually made contact with the horse. It looks more like he was sorting his baton and then directing the officers to come forwards.

For a start there was absolutely NO reaction from the horse....surely if the horse had been hit with that much force, with a solid baton, there'd have been some sort of reaction? Then there's the fact that the baton actually extends slightly during the 'beating', indicating that this was the original intention and that the horse was not in fact receiving a beating.

I may be wrong, the clip isn't the best but just my opinion.


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## LadyRascasse (24 November 2010)

totally blown out of proportion if you ask me, IF he hit the horse it was called for as the horse was being dangerous to the officers on the ground, i don't agree with beating horses but if a horse need a short sharp reminder to ensure the safety of others then yes it should happen. however i don't think he made contact and i feel for the horses having fireworks chucked at them

ETA OP have you ever been on a horse that spins and runs back? because it is very dangerous regardless of whether you are on or off the road.


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## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

oh well i was just very shocked, maybe he/she did not hit the horse and maybe the horse needed to be put back in line in such a situation. Either way i was shocked.


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## Cuppatea (24 November 2010)

*op, just out of interest, what would you have done if it was you on the horse in that situation?*


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## tallyho! (24 November 2010)

I definitely saw a couple of whacks with a baton on the horse could not see how hard.

Not that I think this is right. However, the horse needed a bit of discipline in order to carry with it's job so I wonder whether a hand on it's neck to reassure could not have done the same job as he was already thinking about the situation and weighing it up: how? 

Well, he didn't bolt, he just did what any sane horse would do and move away and then actually DID move forward. Ithink we need to give horses credit in this instance as they need at least a few seconds more than we do to process things... all they have is flight/fight response at hand in any situation.

No need to beat a horse for that, some reassurance and understanding goes a long way.


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## Spudlet (24 November 2010)

When my dad got his baton, he was trained to use the most forceful blow of the baton ONLY on a human thigh. Why? Because according to his trainers, any bone smaller than the femur would be shattered by the impact.

We are not talking about a jumping crop here... you would get a reaction from that, and I didn't see that in that horse!


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## Mogg (24 November 2010)

saw the horse _appear_ to get at least 3 whacks with the police baton, albeit on the reflective rug. you can see the baton _appears_ to be already extended/rigid as he raised his arm, and you can hear something that sounds like contact.
Also it appears to have been the horse nearest the camera initially (that was being petted) that was hit, not the one that wheeled around and ran back. could be wrong tho as the camera doesnt stay on them all the time. Not the best footage tho so overall i couldnt say hand on heart what i saw was what i think i saw if that makes sense.

If he did use the baton  i couldnt say whether the use would qualify as a beating or a smack, as iv never used or been hit with one myself.  be interesting to see if they reply to you OP


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## Brontie (24 November 2010)

lastphoenix said:



			oh well i was just very shocked, maybe he/she did not hit the horse and maybe the horse needed to be put back in line in such a situation. Either way i was shocked.
		
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If you're confused about what you saw, why did you feel the need to contact the constabulary? Thus, possibly getting an officer in trouble, for merely asking the horse to do its job?...


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## Mike007 (24 November 2010)

Mounted officers dont use the extendable wands,they use a solid Batton He is seen on camera hitting the horse three times if you look closely . I do think the sheet would have taken a lot of the impact and I cant really see what else he could do. Personaly I think the use of mounted officers is counterproductive and the argument that they should be done away with has a lot of merit.


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## Emily91 (24 November 2010)

Diito what some have said, I'm not sure he was hitting the horse as it didnt flinch shy away etc?? 

But if he did, imo, it was needed. If a horse starts messing around in that kinds situation it can cause alot of damage to itself and others.

And what happens if he collides with a protestor and injures them? Injured person sues. And possiblity horse may get PTS. Would you rather that than a few smacks? 

To theme that horse looks pretty settled (or as settled as it can be in the situation) as it comes forward again. 

I would however like to have words with whichever idoits think it is appropriate to set fireworks on police, mounted or otherwise!! I thought they were ment to be intelligent uni students?!?!


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## TheEquineOak (24 November 2010)

The horse wasn't hit!!  

The police officer is just waving the baton around/straightening it out.

The police officer on top doesn't do anything in the shots we can see and extend the baton once the horse has stopped.  He then asks it to move forward.

The horse doesn't react AT ALL from being 'apparently' thwacked with the baton.


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## MurphysMinder (24 November 2010)

kaylouise67 said:



			The horse wasn't hit!!  

The police officer is just waving the baton around/straightening it out.

The police officer on top doesn't do anything in the shots we can see and extend the baton once the horse has stopped.  He then asks it to move forward.

The horse doesn't react AT ALL from being 'apparently' thwacked with the baton.
		
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That was what I thought, surely if the horse had been hit it would have shot forward or shown some reaction, it didn't.


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## PapaFrita (24 November 2010)

Stencilface said:



			TBH, they probably do training for this, and maybe the horse shouldn't have reacted that way.  I see the horse got hit, but couldn't see that it got a 'beating'.  It also as a rug on, so most of their hits (if they went on the rear?) would not have been felt as much anyway.

I far more disgusted at the total pr*ck that let the firework off in the first place. 

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Ditto. He shouldn't have smacked the horse (it is not 100% clear that he DID) but I don't think the horse would've felt much through the sheet/rug.


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## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

Rowenna said:



*op, just out of interest, what would you have done if it was you on the horse in that situation?*

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I would like to think i would not hit the horse i was riding (thats if it was hit, as people have pointed out he may not have been), the horse looked genuinely scared and didnt bolt but just backed away fast , but obviously i have not been in any kind of situation like that and you just react how you react at the time. I was just very shocked to witness it. Maybe i shouldnt have jump to conclusions as people seem to think the horse was not hit, which i hope is the case.


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## Smith123 (24 November 2010)

quirky said:



			Nope, don't see a problem there.

If he wanted the horse to go forward and it wouldn't, a couple of cracks on its backside is the right thing to do.
I don't think you actually get the full sequence of events from that clip.

As for complaining about the officer, I am gob smacked .
		
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Agree completely , why on earth did you report the officer? He is doing his job


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## ethicaltrainer (24 November 2010)

Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.


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## TheEquineOak (24 November 2010)

MurphysMinder said:



			That was what I thought, surely if the horse had been hit it would have shot forward or shown some reaction, it didn't.
		
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This really frustrates me!

They are there to do their job, even if the horse was hit I'd say it was just cause.  If my horse had done that he also would of got a thwack in order to get him to think forward.

A very much doubt the OP will get anything other than a 'we'll look into it' reply.  In my opinion, this footage isn't substantional enough to formalise a complaint.


ooooh just realised..your comment didn't frustrate me, I was replying to your comment


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## Sandstone1 (24 November 2010)

I think its a wpc if you look closely before the horse whips round when she is putting her visor down, I cant decide if she hit the horse or not. In one way it looks like its getting three smacks but there is little reaction from the horse so Im not sure. The horse near the camera was so good though, was clearly very frightend but didnt whip round and bolt.


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## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

I simply emailed them saying i was not happy to see what 'looks' like an officer hitting a horse for simply shying away from fireworks going off around his feet. Im sure they wont get in trouble if they see it as only doing their job, and maybe they will email me back re assuring me that it is part of their training or like it has been said, sorting out his baton (or at least i hope they do).


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## martlin (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
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And while we are at it, why don't we have an inquiry?


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## Puppy (24 November 2010)

MurphysMinder said:



			Hmm, having looked at that twice I don't think he is "beating" the horse.  Its hard to describe but those sticks they carry (don't know the correct name) are a bit like a magic wand, in sections and they have to be snapped to become one rigid baton, it looks to me as if he was just fixing the baton before he approached the crowd.
		
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Exactly what I thought when I watched it.


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## monkeybum13 (24 November 2010)

IMHO I really do not see the fuss


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## Smith123 (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
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For god sake!!! you are making a big deal out of nothing


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## Spudlet (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
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I agree. Lets use Parelli methods...


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## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
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OK i do think that is a bit over the top.


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## MurphysMinder (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
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And its future retraining should be done with a carrot stick!


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## lexiedhb (24 November 2010)

BEATING? you are calling that a beating? I have seen worse from professional SJ'ers etc. As it stands that horse was heading toward a line of officers, the rider in question had no choice but to do whatever it took for said horse not to TRAMPLE those officers, his means were effective---- end of.

Also agree with what Mike said!!


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## JaneyP (24 November 2010)

And i would just like to say what brave horses !! I know my horse would have been one million times worse than this. They do a great job, thats the horses, the trainers and the police officers. 

I am just glad that non of the horses were injured and they looked to be able to carry on with the job in hand, especially as no one would know what else these MORONS would have been capable of.


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## jenniaddams (24 November 2010)

I don't see the fuss either. I don't think contact was made, but even if it was, I think that in that situation it is perfectly reasonable. A horse panicking is a danger to anyone around it, so I think doing all possible to make it go forward into the empty space is better than it reversing into the officers behind. 
Also, i seem to rememer watching a programme about the mounted police, in which the horses were being trained to go past explosive firecracker type things. They have a job to do and they must do it.
I feel sorry for the officer.


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## Brontie (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
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You are joking? Seriously? It's not a metal truncheon  Retrained? Love to see you do better.
A vet? Yes, this horse was clearly injured afterwards and unable to return to patrolling


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## ethicaltrainer (24 November 2010)

I feel the double bridle played a part in the horse not bolting. This was enough to control the horse the need to hit it was unjust in my book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfcc0hzGMU&feature=share


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## monkeybum13 (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			I feel the double bridle played a part in the horse not bolting. This was enough to control the horse the need to hit it was unjust in my book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfcc0hzGMU&feature=share

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If a horse is truley going to bolt then surely no amount of metal in it's mouth will make a difference?


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## lexiedhb (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			I feel the double bridle played a part in the horse not bolting. This was enough to control the horse the need to hit it was unjust in my book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfcc0hzGMU&feature=share

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Where is it the newbies pop up from on certain threads???  Is there some sort of carrot stick hotline????


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## lexiedhb (24 November 2010)

monkeybum13 said:



			If a horse is truley going to bolt then surely no amount of metal in it's mouth will make a difference?
		
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BINGO! 12 stone man V's half a ton of horse......... easy maths!


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## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

oh dear wish i hadnt put it on here now, wont be doing anything like this again lol!!


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## ethicaltrainer (24 November 2010)

MurphysMinder said:



			And its future retraining should be done with a carrot stick!

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Carrot stick??? are you implying that the only way to rehabilitate a horse is by using odd aids? These horses are highly trained and worth more than their weight in gold. Using a silly prop wont help. or where you being sarcastic?


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## metalmare (24 November 2010)

A smack sends a horse forward.  A bridle doesn't.


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## Spudlet (24 November 2010)

lexiedhb said:



			Where is it the newbies pop up from on certain threads???  Is there some sort of carrot stick hotline???? 

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It's some kind of ESP.

Obviously, I _could_ teach you how to do it, through my series of instructional DVDs (entitled 'Into The Light - a guide on how you can pop out of the woodwork at all the least opportune moments'), but only on receipt of the full retail price of £54,000. I take credit and debit cards, cheques, postal orders, cash, PayPal, and your immortal soul.


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## Emily91 (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
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WTH???? 

I cant believe this!!! These people put their lives and their horses lives on the line to protect YOU! They have strong relationships with their horses! Alot stronger than any 'Proffesional' rider I have ever seen! I cant believe you would possibly jeopordise their career over something that is SO open to interpretation and with NO PROOF ( and indeed huge doubts ) about the events.

unbelievable!!

off to go grumble at how ungrateful and naive some people can be.


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## Whoopit (24 November 2010)

MurphysMinder said:



			Hmm, having looked at that twice I don't think he is "beating" the horse.  Its hard to describe but those sticks they carry (don't know the correct name) are a bit like a magic wand, in sections and they have to be snapped to become one rigid baton, it looks to me as if he was just fixing the baton before he approached the crowd.
		
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Just what I was going to say. It does look to me as if they were trying to get the baton to extend. And if they weren't, I'd hardly call it a "beating" - i've seen showjumpers and eventers smack a horse with a riding crop worse than that. But that horse doesn't look as though it's shying away from being smacked - any horse i've ridden, you smack it with a stick and they get a bit frisky about it.


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## spaniel (24 November 2010)

OMG what a bunch of hysterical women there are on here.  have any of you actually experienced the real world.  The PC on that horse is highly experienced and if they felt the horse needed encouraging with a couple of slaps through the sheet (which are padded for those who dont know) it would have been for very good reason.

These horses get a better life than almost any horseowner on this site  could give and they are trained to face up to the sort of shite these students faced them with.  believe me they see loads more than this in training sessions.

As for making complaints to A+S  I suggest you turn your attention to REAL animal abuse....maybe some of you students would like to justify actions such as throwing fireworks.  Lets just say your right to subsidised education has gone down the pan as far as Im concerned.


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## ethicaltrainer (24 November 2010)

For those of you who feel its OK to beat, thwack or smack. Here are the facts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfcc0hzGMU&feature=share


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## Happy Hunter (24 November 2010)

I usually leave these threads well alone - But forgoodness sakes!

Please pull this thread now! please!

Ridiculous.
Well done Officer - Well done Horse!

As for 'hearing' the beating, yes, because all noises in that clip are so clear and distinguishable!

As for Retraining the horse - Ill have him!!! 

Because thats what we need our Police force doing, replying to hundreds of complaints about something which clearly isnt evidence worthy footage!!

Its the oik who threw the firework that needs the 'beating'


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## lexiedhb (24 November 2010)

Spudlet said:



			It's some kind of ESP.

Obviously, I _could_ teach you how to do it, through my series of instructional DVDs (entitled 'Into The Light - a guide on how you can pop out of the woodwork at all the least opportune moments'), but only on receipt of the full retail price of £54,000. I take credit and debit cards, cheques, postal orders, cash, PayPal, and your immortal soul.



Click to expand...

Ahahahahahaha LMFAO

Paypaling you my life savings as I type...... oh and the deeds to my house are in the post for good measure!


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## firm (24 November 2010)

I don't think he was beating the horse either. The horses were amazing  however I am digusted at the behaviour of students.


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## martlin (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			I feel the double bridle played a part in the horse not bolting. This was enough to control the horse the need to hit it was unjust in my book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfcc0hzGMU&feature=share

Click to expand...

Lovely, Nevzorov's follower , have you been successful in teaching your horses to read Latin? How's progress?


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## Littlepowderkeg (24 November 2010)

Oh for goodness sake; so you report the officer for what exactly.... the horse clearly panicked and was (possibly although not clear) smacked, in order for the officer to gain its attention. So lets get it straight, if the horse bolted forward into the students and injured one of them (would serve them right!) the officer and the horse would be in serious trouble, the officer if he/she did smack the horse was imo trying to get the horses attention in order to make the situation safe. 

It frightens me that there are people out there that appear to be frightened to use a stick if it is warrented. I am not advocating that we hit horses for sily little reasons or spooking as yes, that it counter productive. However, a frightened and out of control horse is a very dangerous horse. 

I think that the officer concerned knows his/her horse better than anyone on here so don't think we are in any position to comment.


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## Lurky McLurker (24 November 2010)

I watched the clip twice and to my eyes it looks like the officer isn't hitting the horse, because as the horse spins towards the camera on the final "whack" you can see the baton is coming down next to the horse's shoulder and doesn't seem to be impacting the horse - maybe the officer was waving the baton at the crowd to keep them away from the clearly frightened horse so no-one would get trampled?

I can't imagine that they would be smacking the horse because the baton-waving seems to occur after the fireworks have disappeared and the horse has stopped running backwards.  I have to say, though, that I have delivered my horse a good whack (with a light stick, not a baton!) when he was running backwards in a dangerous situation.  He was deliberately napping, not scared of anything, and we were backing rapidly into the path of a double-decker bus... in some situations, self-preservation has to take over!  Two or three smacks with a heavy baton would probably be inappropriate, but I don't think anyone could say, hand-on-heart, that they would never act in a way they may later regret when they were trying to save themselves, their horse or bystanders from serious harm.


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## Spudlet (24 November 2010)

lexiedhb said:



			Ahahahahahaha LMFAO

Paypaling you my life savings as I type...... oh and the deeds to my house are in the post for good measure!
		
Click to expand...

Oh excellent! I shall throw in a Huggly Horsemanship Patented Affiliated Anti-theft Device as well, to ensure that your horse will not sprout wings and fly away should the Plaiting Fairies strike!


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## wonkey_donkey (24 November 2010)

(From personal experience) it looks to me that he is trying to flick out his baton for use and not hitting his horse but I could be wrong cos the camera is at a dodgy angle.


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## miss_c (24 November 2010)

I'm one of those who doesn't see the problem to be honest.  It appeared to me that the horse was backing towards the police officers on foot, so for safety reasons HAD to go forward.  If my horse was backing towards people on foot, a car, etc, I would be giving her a crack or two on the ass for her own safety as well as that of others if she were not listening to my leg.  The horse appeared to be the one nearest to the camera initially, and I thought overall dealt with the firework extremely well - I doubt either of mine would respond that well!  (Yes, I know the horse has been trained to deal with such situations which mine have not)

The demonstrations in Bristol today caused absolute CHAOS, but without the work of the police it would have been an awful lot worse.  As it was I almost missed playing for a pupil's music exam as you just couldn't get anywhere in the city.


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## lexiedhb (24 November 2010)

Spudlet said:



			Oh excellent! I shall throw in a Huggly Horsemanship Patented Affiliated Anti-theft Device as well, to ensure that your horse will not sprout wings and fly away should the Plaiting Fairies strike!
		
Click to expand...

Why that is terrible generous of you!  I bow to your learned teaching methods!


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## Sanolly (24 November 2010)

I am slightly confused, Ethical Trainer the first youtube link you posted was a campaign to stop all horse sports, however this clashes somewhat with your screen name?
As for the horse, I think it was hit/smacked, however I wouldn't say it was beaten, it didn't even react so it couldn't have been hit that hard.


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## Fahrenheit (24 November 2010)

I'm not going to get involved in the rights and wrongs but I just wanted to say having been lucky enough to go to Imber Court and see police horses in training, that he wasn't reprimanding the horse for shying away from the fireworks but trying to send him forward again to get him in line with the other police horses, keeping the police horse line in front of the foot officer line, as the police moved forward to contain the crowd.


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## ethicaltrainer (24 November 2010)

I agree with the majority of what you say. I feel we have this right to free speech, to air our grievances and not fear the wrath of others. 
As for focus on real animal abuse, this is my work, world wide and i am no novice at picking up bits of animal carcase left behind in situation far worst than we just seen, this does not make the highly trained horse we have just seen hit feel better. Each and everything has to deal with its our trauma as and when it happens!


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## JaneyP (24 November 2010)

This might help ? ? You wouldn't even need a stick !


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## nativetyponies (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
Click to expand...

**shakes head**


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## spaniel (24 November 2010)

Exactly HG,  which benefits not only the police,  demonstrators and sundry bystanders but also the horse,  which for those newbies who dont know is a HERD animal.


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## Sanolly (24 November 2010)

Janey no way is that real!!


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## martlin (24 November 2010)

Sanolly said:



			I am slightly confused, Ethical Trainer the first youtube link you posted was a campaign to stop all horse sports, however this clashes somewhat with your screen name?
		
Click to expand...

Ahh, but you see, they only want to ban riding, they will teach the horses to read Latin (or was it Greek?) instead - and no, I'm not joking!


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## RuthnMeg (24 November 2010)

I don't see a problem with that link. 
But, what brave horses, I truely admire them. And what stupid f*&% wits who through the fire work in the first place, yeah thats going to cut student fees!!!


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## lexiedhb (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			For those of you who feel its OK to beat, thwack or smack. Here are the facts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfcc0hzGMU&feature=share

Click to expand...

Erm several things 1) this is mainly all about bits not smacking and 2) where has this been peer reviewed and published please? 3) I personally have never seen anyone RIP their horses lower jaw OFF so cant see how/why that is a relavent experiment??? 

am I missing something?


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## ethicaltrainer (24 November 2010)

horses read now that a new one on me!


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## nativetyponies (24 November 2010)

Ruthnmeg said:



			I don't see a problem with that link. 
But, what brave horses, I truely admire them. And what stupid f*&% wits who through the fire work in the first place, yeah thats going to cut student fees!!!
		
Click to expand...

the same kind of ****wit that would throw a fire extinguisher off a roof


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## xmanda90x (24 November 2010)

To be fair you can't tell for definite whether the rider did hit the horse with the baton or not and even if he did it wasn't brutal and imo justified.



lexiedhb said:



			BEATING? you are calling that a beating? I have seen worse from professional SJ'ers etc. As it stands that horse was heading toward a line of officers, the rider in question had no choice but to do whatever it took for said horse not to TRAMPLE those officers, his means were effective---- end of.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this, the horse was heading into a line of on foot officers so the rider reacted quickly and effectively in order to prevent an incident, can't see any problem there to be honest.


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## Nudibranch (24 November 2010)

Er, I really don't think the horse needs a veterinary assessment...

It spooked, which it shouldn't have done but then it is a horse. Police horses have an incredible standard of training and care, and I don't believe for one minute any mounted officer would give their horse "a beating", nor does the video show that IMO.

They do an amazing job, but that also means they need to be 100% reliable 100% of the time. I certainly wouldn't "reassure" a spinning horse ready to flatten everyone standing nearby, for either the horses' sake or the bystanders'. All horses need occasional discipline, and police horses are no different from any other, in fact it's even more important for them.


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## martlin (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			horses read now that a new one on me!
		
Click to expand...

there you go:
http://hauteecole.ru/en/films_books.php?sid=0&id=970


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## lexiedhb (24 November 2010)

martlin said:



			there you go:
http://hauteecole.ru/en/films_books.php?sid=0&id=970

Click to expand...

Oh oh oh how much? where do I sign up?????


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## Munchkin (24 November 2010)

1. I didn't see him hit the horse

2. I'm happy these idiots won't be able to afford their uni fees, I don't want to be paying taxes to help fund the education of people who are stupid enough to throw fireworks at horses - how would they get their tiny little minds around a degree?  (Whole other thread, sorry!)


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## TheEquineOak (24 November 2010)

lexiedhb said:



			Oh oh oh how much? where do I sign up????? 

Click to expand...

How have you still got money left?!


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## DipseyDeb (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
Click to expand...

:rollseyes:


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## meandmyself (24 November 2010)

spaniel said:



			OMG what a bunch of hysterical women there are on here.  have any of you actually experienced the real world.  The PC on that horse is highly experienced and if they felt the horse needed encouraging with a couple of slaps through the sheet (which are padded for those who dont know) it would have been for very good reason.

These horses get a better life than almost any horseowner on this site  could give and they are trained to face up to the sort of shite these students faced them with.  believe me they see loads more than this in training sessions.

As for making complaints to A+S  I suggest you turn your attention to REAL animal abuse....maybe some of you students would like to justify actions such as throwing fireworks.  Lets just say your right to subsidised education has gone down the pan as far as Im concerned.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this. 

I do think that the officer gave the horse a few smacks. I also think it was the right thing to do. 

The horse was going backwards fast, towards a row of other officers. Hate to think how many of them would have been hurt if said horse crashed into them.


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## martlin (24 November 2010)

Munchkin said:



			how would they get their tiny little minds around a degree?  (Whole other thread, sorry!)
		
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Easy, that. With the ever expanding supply of MickeyMouse degrees, any old (or young) eejit can get one


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## teapot (24 November 2010)

Nice to see the bunny huggers are out in force...


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## NeverSayNever (24 November 2010)

a veterinary assessment? PMSL, agree with spaniel - bunch of hysterical women


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## TheEquineOak (24 November 2010)

martlin said:



			Easy, that. With the ever expanding supply of MickeyMouse degrees, any old (or young) eejit can get one 

Click to expand...

Completely agree! At least putting fees up will make a degree 'valuable' again.


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## Auslander (24 November 2010)

Looks to me like she asked the horse to go forward, got that ominous feeling you get when a horse has lost the plot, and gave him a couple of reminders that got his attention focused on her, and sent him forward again. 

Sometimes - a horse just needs a smack. Whether it's a police horse who has temporarily lost his sanity, an event horse who backs off when committed to a nasty fence, or a big thug of a youngster who walks all over anyone who handles him.  If that was me on that police horse, reversing uncontrollably towards a line of people, I'd have walloped it too.


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## Toast (24 November 2010)

I had to watch the video twice, but, to me... if the officer had hit the horse, with the force that they are waving the baton i would've expected the horse to at least jump forward or react in some way and it doesnt seem to be. Perhaps he/she was just waving the baton whimsically to add dramatic effect... who knows. 
x


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## JaneyP (24 November 2010)

The bloomin horse has just had a firework go off in its face for goodness sake!, i think a smack on the bum to stop it hurting the line of officers and being able to get back on track with its job is quite immaterial!


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## Pedantic (24 November 2010)

I didn't think it was that bad, but I would have been quite happy for him to hit the t***s round the arse with his baton for throwing the fireworks at the horses


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## Tankey (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
Click to expand...

I have only read this far so sorry if this has been already asked but are you taking the piss or a troll?


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## martlin (24 November 2010)

Tankey said:



			I have only read this far so sorry if this has been already asked but are you taking the piss or a troll?
		
Click to expand...

Read a bit further, Tankey, the Ethical Trainer is a fan of Nevzorov


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## RubyR (24 November 2010)

I haven't read all the posts but as a police officer when I watched the footage it is obvious to me that the rider is racking his baton open which you do by flicking it open with some form. It never even crossed my mind that he looked like he was hitting the horse, that is the standard action to open your baton.


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## happyhack (24 November 2010)

QR

Looks to me more like the PO was co-ordinating the officers on foot than walloping horse!


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## nativetyponies (24 November 2010)

perhaps the Police should be issued with a medieval Flail when dealing with Rent-A_Mob?

would make great entertainment


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## nativetyponies (24 November 2010)

martlin said:



			the Ethical Trainer is a fan of Nevzorov 

Click to expand...

wasn't he a Ballet Dancer?


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## Koda (24 November 2010)

My personal summary:

1)The students are a pack of prats for throwing the fireworks at the horses.
2) If the officer hit the horse, it was the correct response under the circumstances and in no way excessive.
3) I wanna borrow the stick to go and beat up the students who threw the firework...I promise to be excessive


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## nativetyponies (24 November 2010)

Tankey said:



			I have only read this far so sorry if this has been already asked but are you taking the piss or a troll?
		
Click to expand...

Tanks..you can't say piss...someone will press THE button


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## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

RubyR said:



			I haven't read all the posts but as a police officer when I watched the footage it is obvious to me that the rider is racking his baton open which you do by flicking it open with some form. It never even crossed my mind that he looked like he was hitting the horse, that is the standard action to open your baton.
		
Click to expand...

I'm glad to hear that, i should not have jumped to conclusions, but it did look like the horse was being hit. I am glad i may have been proved wrong.


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## Mike007 (24 November 2010)

Pedantic said:



			I didn't think it was that bad, but I would have been quite happy for him to hit the t***s round the arse with his baton for throwing the fireworks at the horses 

Click to expand...

totaly agree  with you Pedantic. The trouble with mounted police is that they cant just hit the T***s around the arse, its arms head and sholders or ride over them(or ride over others to get the one they want) The horses should not have been there,they served no useful purpose.


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## martlin (24 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			wasn't he a Ballet Dancer? 

Click to expand...

Something like that


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## kirstyhen (24 November 2010)

Spudlet said:



			We are not talking about a jumping crop here... you would get a reaction from that, and I didn't see that in that horse!
		
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Yup, if you cracked a horse on the arse with that, in the way he was waving it, even the nicest creature would catapult you into next week! Either that, or go hopping lame from having the top of it's pelvis shattered!


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## AFlapjack (24 November 2010)

I've watched this numerous times now and it certainly doesn't look like the officer even makes contact with the horse!! 

If he had hit him, surely the horse would have reacted???? The horse doesn't react at all which makes me believe the officer was either lengthening the device (sorry don't know what its called) or was telling the police on foot to move forward.


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## Spudlet (24 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			Tanks..you can't say piss...someone will press THE button
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, I _think_ you meant Extracting The Urine, Tankey....

And NP, wasn't the ballet dancer to whom you refer the one with the very large **ahem ahem** ballet shoes?


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## JenniferS (24 November 2010)

RubyR said:



			I haven't read all the posts but as a police officer when I watched the footage it is obvious to me that the rider is racking his baton open which you do by flicking it open with some form. It never even crossed my mind that he looked like he was hitting the horse, that is the standard action to open your baton.
		
Click to expand...

I agree


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## nativetyponies (24 November 2010)

Spudlet said:



			Indeed, I _think_ you meant Extracting The Urine, Tankey....

And NP, wasn't the ballet dancer to whom you refer the one with the very large **ahem ahem** ballet shoes?

Click to expand...

i don't know WHAT you mean....

you'd have to ask Dame Margot.....


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## Tankey (24 November 2010)

martlin said:



			Read a bit further, Tankey, the Ethical Trainer is a fan of Nevzorov 

Click to expand...

Oh dear flipping God


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## sunshine19 (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
Click to expand...


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## Holly Hocks (24 November 2010)

I haven't read all the replies, but having watched the clip and also having handled one of these asps, they need to be flicked really hard to open.  I don't think he hits the horse, I think he is trying to get the asp to open.


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## Tankey (24 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			Tanks..you can't say piss...someone will press THE button
		
Click to expand...

Bugger, cant I ?


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## nativetyponies (24 November 2010)

Tankey said:



			Bugger, cant I ?

Click to expand...

you can't say Bugger, either


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## Mike007 (24 November 2010)

So who ordered him to draw his batton because the only other target would be the crowd! You will see that none of the other officers have drawn theirs. I would rather believe that he drew it to give the horse a possibly deserved slap or two ,than that it was to ride into the crowd and crack heads!


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## JaneyP (24 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			you can't say Bugger, either
		
Click to expand...

Now you both said bugger!


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## Spudlet (24 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			you can't say Bugger, either
		
Click to expand...

No, indeed. You have to say 'my goodness me', or 'gosh', or 'well golly', or 'sugar', or in very extreme circumstances only, 'well knock me down with a feather'...


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## spaniel (24 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			you can't say Bugger, either
		
Click to expand...

Or muppet.....even if its obvious that they are everywhere again.


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## Tankey (24 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			you can't say Bugger, either
		
Click to expand...

Oh *******s, well what can I say then?


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## Tankey (24 November 2010)

spaniel said:



			Or muppet.....even if its obvious that they are everywhere again.
		
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Is bunny and hugger still allowed in the same sentence?


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## Auslander (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			I feel the double bridle played a part in the horse not bolting. This was enough to control the horse the need to hit it was unjust in my book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfcc0hzGMU&feature=share

Click to expand...

Pedantic I know - but that's not a double bridle! Anyway - as it was in reverse, what was in its mouth was completely irrelevant.


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## PapaFrita (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			For those of you who feel its OK to beat, thwack or smack. Here are the facts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfcc0hzGMU&feature=share

Click to expand...

That video is absurd in so many ways. WHERE are the facts precisely? You know, the ones, as Lexiedhb says that are published and peer reviewed? Also, why is it necessary to dress someone up in (show) riding gear and a hard hat to conduct an experiment on a bit on a fake horse in a lab? Is this to persuade us that he is a rider? Why doesn't he hold the reins correctly then? Surely the reins should be held in the usual manner so that the simulation is truly accurate? What is the horse head made of? Styrofoam? The jaw apparently has a joint in the chin groove. Why, despite all the fancy video simulation do the scientists not simulate the correct jaw anatomy when applying force on the bit? Why are they not using a skull? Too tough? What degree of force is used? What is the 'tongue' made of? And as for the whipping; the 'scientist' is immobile using downward force in FRONT of him. How is that representative of how a rider hits a horse? What exactly are the photos of? Where did they come from? Did they actually come from the racehorses onto which the images were so dramatically superimposed?
Even the images of riders are only those that support the 'facts'. How convenient. 
Load of rubbish.


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## Seahorse (24 November 2010)

kaylouise67 said:



			In my opinion, it looks like he's waving his baton to get the officers on the ground to move forward.  It's a shakey view.

Well done to the poor horse in the main shot though!!
		
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Yes he was a very brave horse wasn't he?


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## spaniel (24 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			So who ordered him to draw his batton because the only other target would be the crowd! You will see that none of the other officers have drawn theirs. I would rather believe that he drew it to give the horse a possibly deserved slap or two ,than that it was to ride into the crowd and crack heads!
		
Click to expand...



Absolutely.  It was drawn to encourage the horse back up into the line.  If we were on a horse going backwards towards a hazard Im sure most of us would employ a sharp smack too.

Unless of course we are Ethical Trainer in which case we would all dismount and spend a few moments making daisy chains for each other.


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## Spudlet (24 November 2010)

Tankey said:



			Is bunny and hugger still allowed in the same sentence?
		
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Certainly not. Hugging bunnies is in direct contravention of their lagomorphic rights


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## Pedantic (24 November 2010)

Koda said:



			My personal summary:

1)The students are a pack of prats for throwing the fireworks at the horses.
2) If the officer hit the horse, it was the correct response under the circumstances and in no way excessive.
3) I wanna borrow the stick to go and beat up the students who threw the firework...I promise to be excessive 

Click to expand...

I will help


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## milesjess (24 November 2010)

AliceFlapjack said:



			I've watched this numerous times now and it certainly doesn't look like the officer even makes contact with the horse!! 

Click to expand...

^^ Agree with the above post. The video is too far of a distance away and you cannot clearly see if he strikes the horse or not, so you cannot judge the situation properly. It looks like the Officer draws his baton and and racks it to extend it. These horses are highly cared for and the Officers are trained to a very high standard therefore I doubt very much that he was 'beating' the horse.

That's my opinion on the video anyway


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## sunshine19 (24 November 2010)

spaniel said:



			unless of course we are ethical trainer in which case we would all dismount and spend a few moments making daisy chains for each other.
		
Click to expand...


pmsl!! :d


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## nativetyponies (24 November 2010)

Pedantic said:



			I will help 

Click to expand...

i've got a spare flail if you'd like to borrow it?

i would want it washed before returning it, if thats OK?


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## htobago (24 November 2010)

Rebelzmum said:



			I haven't read all the replies, but having watched the clip and also having handled one of these asps, they need to be flicked really hard to open.  I don't think he hits the horse, I think he is trying to get the asp to open.
		
Click to expand...

That's what it looked like to me as well. I think perhaps some people here are rushing to judgement without knowing the facts.


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## Vixxy (24 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			So who ordered him to draw his batton because the only other target would be the crowd! You will see that none of the other officers have drawn theirs. I would rather believe that he drew it to give the horse a possibly deserved slap or two ,than that it was to ride into the crowd and crack heads!
		
Click to expand...

I agree Mike007 

I think the horse has a job to do and should have moved forward as it is trained to do. Sorry maybe I am too firm a horse woman but they do have a job to do and have been through so much training for this stuff.

I am surprised by the amount of concern for a horse that is trained to be brave...Hello who has not seen them jump through hoops of fire at displays 

When a horse I ride won't go forward if he doesn't listen to my leg he gets the whip on his bum...Sorry but that is how I was taught. I don't like teaching horses it is okay to nap!


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## spaniel (24 November 2010)

oooooh now thats a tricky one.....havent had any trouble with 'tofu knitter' yet.....


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## Tankey (24 November 2010)

Spudlet said:



			Certainly not. Hugging bunnies is in direct contravention of their lagomorphic rights

Click to expand...

*Toddles off to google lagamorphic*


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## nativetyponies (24 November 2010)

Tankey said:



			Oh *******s, well what can I say then?

Click to expand...

not a lot TBH....

and for Gawds Sake don't mention the Abattoir..........


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## Mike007 (24 November 2010)

htobago said:



			That's what it looked like to me as well. I think perhaps some people here are rushing to judgement without knowing the facts.
		
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Have a good look at the batton on the saddle of the nearest horse, (off side ,just behind the saddle flap) That is a solid batton, it is NOT extendable so any movement was to USE it not extend it.


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## TheEquineOak (24 November 2010)

spaniel said:



			Unless of course we are Ethical Trainer in which case we would all dismount and spend a few moments making daisy chains for each other.
		
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That is actually the funniest thing I have read on this forum.

I GENUINELY spurted my wine over my laptop this time


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## lastphoenix (24 November 2010)

I agree with a horse needing to go forward and giving it a smack behind the saddle etc etc, but maybe its the way the rider raises their arm right up in order to (what appears) hit the horse. its a tough one.


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## Whoopit (24 November 2010)

spaniel said:



			Unless of course we are Ethical Trainer in which case we would all dismount and spend a few moments making daisy chains for each other.
		
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Hahaha!! Hope they've got a nose net on their mount, just in case it's allergic to pollen!


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## Cuppatea (24 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			horses read now that a new one on me!
		
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my horse can read, when she sees the big 'STOP' written on the roads, she stops. _VERY _obiedient. She can also read and obey them in welsh too! Bi-lingual she is!!


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## spaniel (24 November 2010)

Well you learn something new everyday.....we can now refer to lagamorphs......vegetation eating wooly footed bucked toothed individuals.....sounds just like bunny huggers to me!!


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## custard (24 November 2010)

Haven't read all the posts but watched the video several times and will just add my twopenoth as an 'insider' so to speak.  

It's debatable whether he makes contact with the horse, those fixed batons are heavy and solid and I think you would see the horse react to it.  Even so, one horse had already bolted towards the serial of officers holding the line and the second  horse looked like it was about to flatten several officers which in a disorder situation like that just CANNOT happen.  

An officer down can all too easily end up dead, think of Keith Blakelock so sorry, it wasn't nice to see but they are there to do a job.  Personally I would rather see them use a high pressure hose pipe and send them home cold and wet but with our namby pamby government that's not going to happen!


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## Mike007 (24 November 2010)

lastphoenix said:



			I agree with a horse needing to go forward and giving it a smack behind the saddle etc etc, but maybe its the way the rider raises their arm right up in order to (what appears) hit the horse. its a tough one.
		
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But in fairness I bet that horse has had harder kicks in the ribs from its mates in the field.In terms of natural horsemanship, that is how a horse disciplines another horse(and why riders so often get kicked in the leg).


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## Tankey (24 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			not a lot TBH....

and for Gawds Sake don't mention the Abattoir..........
		
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What wrong with an abattoir?
Thats where you take the horse after you have given it a battoning


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## MurphysMinder (24 November 2010)

Tankey said:



			What wrong with an abattoir?
Thats where you take the horse after you have given it a battoning 

Click to expand...

 You're one of those horse haters aren't you!


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## sunshine19 (24 November 2010)

custard said:



			Personally I would rather see them use a high pressure hose pipe and send them home cold and wet but with our namby pamby government that's not going to happen!
		
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But that would infringe their human rights, they might catch a cold and sue


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## nativetyponies (24 November 2010)

MurphysMinder said:



			You're one of those horse haters aren't you!

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see what happens Tanks...i did warn you, you've brought it on yourself


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## Tankey (24 November 2010)

MurphysMinder said:



			You're one of those horse haters aren't you!

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Cant stand the bloody things


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## PapaFrita (24 November 2010)

Spudlet said:



			It's some kind of ESP.

Obviously, I _could_ teach you how to do it, through my series of instructional DVDs (entitled 'Into The Light - a guide on how you can pop out of the woodwork at all the least opportune moments'), but only on receipt of the full retail price of £54,000. I take credit and debit cards, cheques, postal orders, cash, PayPal, and your immortal soul.



Click to expand...

Are you straying from the flock???


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## Tankey (24 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			see what happens Tanks...i did warn you, you've brought it on yourself  

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Its alright NP...I'm covering for you


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## S_N (24 November 2010)

God, it's like Car Crash TV hits HHO AGAIN!!  FFS!!


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## sykokat (24 November 2010)

Had enough of this!! Where do you lot get off criticising the mounties like that. It is not clear that the officer actually connected with the horse. Looks to me like he was trying to flick out the baton in readiness to face the protestors. Even if he had given the horse a smack, then he would have done so necessarily. Have you actually ever been in a situation where a horse has seriously spun on you at an oncoming lorry etc! Well I have and I can tell you that sometimes a smack on the backside can make the difference of the horse stopping and coming to it's senses and being hit by the said vehicle. The police horses are there to do a job and in those circumstances they have to pay attention. Bunny huggers need to stop picking on the people like the mounted police and see if they could actually do any better!!


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## Walrus (24 November 2010)

IMO, it may look a bit brutal but if I was on a horse reversing quickly into a crowd / ditch / wire fence / dangerous thing I would resort to kicking / smacking etc. to ensure that we went in the opposite direction!


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## Ebenezer_Scrooge (24 November 2010)

I have watched this 3 times and I didn't see it make contact. I have had a go with those batons and they take a heck of a lot of force to flick them out. That was what happened . I am more concerned at the idiot student throwing the firework....


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## Serephin (24 November 2010)

In my opinion he did not make contact with the horse - if he had hit the horse with as much force as it obviously took to open up the baton (or whatever it was) then the horse would react.  

The horse at the front was very brave!


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## tania01 (24 November 2010)

OMG unbelieveable some people.

OH not a horsey person at all,frightened of them if honest.

Showed him this and the comments.

His words.Tree huggers they  have the best training there is and they know what they are doing.

I won't put what else he said,as i will get banned,this is mild.


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## CorvusCorax (24 November 2010)

Oh my holy God, do the cops not have enough crap, paperwork and red tape to deal with, without fending off calls and emails from a load of hysterical biddies who would no doubt wet their knickers and cry their eyes out if they were stuck in the middle of a real, dangerous, riot situation.

There are animals not a million miles away from any of us, being neglected, starved, beaten, truly suffering in our own back yards, go try fighting on their behalf instead of erroneously knocking someone in a job that very, very few of us could do.


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## mymare (24 November 2010)

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus!!  Seen it all now.


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## tania01 (24 November 2010)

CaveCanem said:



			Oh my holy God, do the cops not have enough crap, paperwork and red tape to deal with, without fending off calls and emails from a load of hysterical biddies who would no doubt wet their knickers and cry their eyes out if they were stuck in the middle of a real, dangerous, riot situation.

There are animals not a million miles away from any of us, being neglected, starved, beaten, truly suffering in our own back yards, go try fighting on their behalf instead of erroneously knocking someone in a job that very, very few of us could do.
		
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Ditto this.


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## Tormenta (24 November 2010)

CaveCanem said:



			There are animals not a million miles away from any of us, being neglected, starved, beaten, truly suffering in our own back yards, go try fighting on their behalf instead of erroneously knocking someone in a job that very, very few of us could do.
		
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Amen to that! But sadly there seem to be quite a few who would rather put their energy into complaining about a couple of smacks on the backside over a sheet.

Unbelievable.

Someone please, show them the real world!


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## Onyxia (24 November 2010)

Spudlet said:



			Certainly not. Hugging bunnies is in direct contravention of their lagomorphic rights

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Bugger.
Can we still use cats as portable hot water bottles? Tis all my woofter of a lad is good for you see.....


I did not see riders abusing horses,I did see some very brave combinations.


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## henryhorn (24 November 2010)

Oh for goodness sake don't be so silly!
Yes he used his baton but remember it was wearing a rug for starters which would mean it would lessen  feeling, and as the adreniline would be running high I bet it barely felt it.
Police horses are like any other, scared of fireworks, but they do have to remember their training and go forwards and all this rider was doing was making sure the horse went forwards not ran away. A bolt through a crowded street would have been a lot more dangerous than a couple of smacks.
Your moaning should be directed at the utter morons who thought it acceptable to throw fireworks at what were innocent parties in the protest, the horses didn't exactly choose to be there did they?
Have you sent a letter of protest to the Student Union?


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## Ravenwood (24 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			But in fairness I bet that horse has had harder kicks in the ribs from its mates in the field.In terms of natural horsemanship, that is how a horse disciplines another horse(and why riders so often get kicked in the leg).
		
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A police horse in active service doesn't get turned out unlike army horses who get time out.

If that horse had been hit three times by a "solid metal truncheon" then My God - it must have the skin of a rhino!!  It didn't flinch once!  

What an absolutely ghastly bunch of pondlife those students were   I dread to think the state of this country when that lot get their degrees and start to manage in this country!


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## MochaDun (24 November 2010)

Were any of you actually caught up in that today in Bristol?  I was.  Didn't see that being done to the police horse but there were 2,000 people on the move, the police had to try and contain them as the danger to other people and roadusers and pedestrians was I suspect increasing as the protestors attempted to move and head into other areas away from the university buildings which were crowded with jams and cars already.  While this was from all accounts quite a civilised protest it felt like a tinderbox to me and you could feel the tension.  It just takes one idiotic thing like those firecrackers being set off to kick off panic amongst people.  If that horse had bolted and gone into cars or pedestrians or the students themselves it would have been a hideous accident.  When my horse used to nap badly on occasion on the road when I first got him I had to turn my crop over for one swift one so that he would go forward as we were at risk of sitting down on a car.   Sometmes in the heat of the moment needs must.


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## Natch (24 November 2010)

MurphysMinder said:



			Hmm, having looked at that twice I don't think he is "beating" the horse.  Its hard to describe but those sticks they carry (don't know the correct name) are a bit like a magic wand, in sections and they have to be snapped to become one rigid baton, it looks to me as if he was just fixing the baton before he approached the crowd.
		
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Ravenwood said:



			If that horse had been hit three times by a "solid metal truncheon" then My God - it must have the skin of a rhino!!  It didn't flinch once!  

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All blown out of proportion I think. I too thought it looked as if he/she waved the baton, for what purpose I'm not sure, but it didn't look to me as if it made contact with the horse.  The horse didn't flinch. Although I do agree you'd need a better angle to be sure.



Stencilface said:



			I far more disgusted at the total pr*ck that let the firework off in the first place. 

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Precisely.


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## Pearlsasinger (24 November 2010)

Why don't people think and take the time to get their facts right, before firing off e-mails (and posts on HHO) left, right and centre?


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## Spudlet (24 November 2010)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Why don't people think and take the time to get their facts right, before firing off e-mails (and posts on HHO) left, right and centre?
		
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Where's the fun in that?


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## CorvusCorax (24 November 2010)

Never let the facts get in the way of some 'worthy' hysteria!!!


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## NeedNewHorse (24 November 2010)

I watched it. It's very obvious the rider whacked the horse with the baton, anyone who says so otherwise is silly imo. It's very obvious!

However, we have all been out and about riding a horse who backs off something and in that instant we need to get them thinking forwards again, the rider rode strong to get their horse thinking forwards. Yes he did whack him against the rug, personally I think a smaller thinner whip against naked skin would be more painful if we are going down that route.

I am probably the biggest 'fluffy' person on here, using your own standards on this and I do not think the rider did anything wrong but just acted and got the horse thinking forwards. My own horse reacts in the exact same way we saw here, possibly even worse coming across a dog or something else she doesn't take a liking too like a bag or leaf flying around! I don't ride out with a whip, but my reins go flying over her neck in that instant...The horse hardly bolted, wasn't terrified just backed off, we have all experienced this ourselves and in this situation it's not a time to take a moment. Rider and horse was in the middle of a huge situation, the horse needed his rider to take control and push on. Horse did then go on.


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## Natch (24 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			the same kind of ****wit that would throw a fire extinguisher off a roof
		
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Exactly.  ming you, Cleggy, the man who _promised_ no tuition fee rises didn't help matters by pleaing for students not to protest. Flame to touch paper.

*edited to say _mind_ you, not ming you


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## Natch (24 November 2010)

heidirusso said:



			I watched it. It's very obvious the rider whacked the horse with the baton, anyone who says so otherwise is silly imo. It's very obvious!
		
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*headdesk*

Which hat will you eat if the police come out with a video taken from a  different angle and you are proven wrong?!


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## NeedNewHorse (24 November 2010)

Naturally said:



			*headdesk*

Which hat will you eat if the police come out with a video taken from a  different angle and you are proven wrong?!
		
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Ohhh... Not sure!! Though I will certainly apologise if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure I am not!!


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## martlin (24 November 2010)

Naturally said:



			*headdesk*

Which hat will you eat if the police come out with a video taken from a  different angle and you are proven wrong?!
		
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I could donate a woolly hat for that purpose


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## lucyc (24 November 2010)

if you look when the horse turns around and faces the camera the police man is seen to wave the batton around again and you can see he misses the horse and so i think its hard to tell if he does actually hit the horse or not...


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## Patches (24 November 2010)

itsmylife said:



			I think its a wpc if you look closely before the horse whips round when she is putting her visor down, I cant decide if she hit the horse or not. In one way it looks like its getting three smacks but there is little reaction from the horse so Im not sure. The horse near the camera was so good though, was clearly very frightend but didnt whip round and bolt.
		
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The horse nearest the camera IS the horse who was allegedly hit in the video, NOT the horse that whipped around and bolted in the middle of the frame. 

I don't know what else the officer could do. I very much doubt they carry whips as well as truncheon/batons. I am pretty sure if I was in his shoes I'd have gotten the truncheon out as well to use as an "emergency stick". 

I do think it looked worse than it was and obviously the horse wasn't hit with the full force of the baton, if hit at all. The noise of it making any contact with the sheet would've been enough to send it forwards, or at least to think twice about backing off. I suspect there was a sharp, swift whip through the air but a light contact was all that would have been made with the horse. As the others have said, the horse would've reacted much more had it received a good thwack from a truncheon. 

I thought all of them reacted relatively well in that situation though. I don't think there are many horses out there, whatever their "bombproofing" that wouldn't have reacted in a similar manner to fireworks going off at them. 

Utterly mindless hooligans.


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## JDChaser (24 November 2010)

I've replied on the other thread - what a load of fuss about nothing! If your horse spun and bolted, what would you do in order to get it going forward again? And it was wearing a rug. Come on, get over it.


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## Seahorse (24 November 2010)

Having watched it another three times I can't work out if it's being hit or not. I think he/she wallops it twice altogether, but I find it really hard to tell.

If it is being wacked what I find bad about it is that its actually standing still and being well behaved when it gets hit.

I once rode with a woman who's horse would spin and p*** off with her, so she would stop him and then lay into him with her stick. Surely the horse would think it's being hit for standing still?


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## milesjess (24 November 2010)

Seahorse said:



			Having watched it another three times I can't work out if it's being hit or not. I think he/she wallops it twice altogether, but I find it really hard to tell.

If it is being wacked what I find bad about it is that its actually standing still and being well behaved when it gets hit.

I once rode with a woman who's horse would spin and p*** off with her, so she would stop him and then lay into him with her stick. Surely the horse would think it's being hit for standing still?
		
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The horse wouldn't be getting whacked if it was being well behaved though, alright it was spooked but the officer had to react and I genuinely think she/ he reacted well in the situation to keep the horse under control and prevent it from bolting into a crowd of protesters or police officers.


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## Seahorse (24 November 2010)

milesjess said:



			The horse wouldn't be getting whacked if it was being well behaved though, alright it was spooked but the officer had to react and I genuinely think she/ he reacted well in the situation to keep the horse under control and prevent it from bolting into a crowd of protesters or police officers.
		
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I'm still not entirely convinced it did get hit tbh, I can't tell. But in order for it to go forward again it clearly needed a bit of encouragement! Good horse though for getting on with the job after having a firework go off next to it.


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## SpruceRI (24 November 2010)

So the horse baulks backwards, squashing 10 policemen/woman, sits on the police van and breaks its leg.

Or the rider gives it a couple of whacks to send it forward, where is should be.

Which would you say is the better outcome?


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## milesjess (24 November 2010)

Seahorse said:



			I'm still not entirely convinced it did get hit tbh, I can't tell. But in order for it to go forward again it clearly needed a bit of encouragement! Good horse though for getting on with the job after having a firework go off next to it.
		
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Yeah it is hard to tell by the camera angle but the riders reaction seemed to do the trick. Well handled in a challenging situation, personally I think the rider/ horse need praising and a pay rise! (extra apples for the horse )


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## Seahorse (24 November 2010)

milesjess said:



			Yeah it is hard to tell by the camera angle but the riders reaction seemed to do the trick. Well handled in a challenging situation, personally I think the rider/ horse need praising and a pay rise! (extra apples for the horse )
		
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What an awful situation to be in, I know they are probably very well trained and used to it but even so it must have been pretty scary (for horse and rider)


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## Sol (25 November 2010)

madhossy said:



			So the horse baulks backwards, squashing 10 policemen/woman, sits on the police van and breaks its leg.

Or the rider gives it a couple of whacks to send it forward, where is should be.

Which would you say is the better outcome?
		
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This!!

Sorry, but on occasions where I have been sat on a horse that has done something equally dangerous, I will admit that I have probably done worse. However, it never did any lasting damage to the horse, whereas broken leg for said horse would probably be fairly lasting, do we not agree?! 

I'm sure there are far worse videos on youtube....


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## Pipkin (25 November 2010)

Oh yay the fluffy bunny brigade are out to play again!

Mounted police are trained for these situations! They know how to work the horse and get it to its job which this horse is clearly not doing!! you cant even tell from the video clip if there is any contact with the horse and I`d like to see what the bunnies would do in this situation! Do you honestly think its safer to let the horse run backwards and injure others and itself?

 I know for certain if any of my horses spun and wouldnt go forward I wouldnt be setting there soothing and saying "coo coo come on baby be a good iccle ponio", they`d get a smack and urged to go forward!

Some people need to grow a pair of balls and live in the real world!


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## Maesfen (25 November 2010)

I hope whoever has reported the officer hasn't caused them to have a blot on their career record, that would be totally unfair and over the top; I hope they have the character to apologise to them if so.
The training those horses go through (are they still at Imber Court?) is phenominal; nothing short of a bomb beside them would upset them; they are trained to have things thrown at them and all sorts, it's very intensive and thorough so any horse stepping out of line in a fraccas will become suspect, not what anyone wants.


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## skint1 (25 November 2010)

My problem is not with the officer, I don't think he used unneccessary force and the horse HAD to go forward. My problem is  with the protestors, how dare they throw fireworks at horses who are only doing their jobs?!

It was completely unneccessary and  detracted (in my eyes) from their cause for which I have some sympathy though now part f me can't help but think that when all those uni students are working for the capitalist establishment with their big fat salaries in years to  come I hope they look back in shame at their behaviour toward those horses. 

Having been around a certain type of student activist when I was union activist in days of yore I can imagine the trouble makers think they're some hard nut anarchists but I bet if there really were a state of anarchy in this country they'd be the first ones crying to mummy when their Blackberry got lifted because property is theft. Bah! 

ps otherwise I am extremely sympathetic to their cause


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## TallyHo123 (25 November 2010)

Not sure I want to watch the video so obviously can't give an opinion. Imo no horse needs to be smacked to be 'diciplined' when they spook etc. I am in no way a fluffy bunny' at all. But they don't. If a horse kicks, bites agressivley then yes. But spooking is a natural reaction and I can't stand it when people tell them off for it.


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## cobgirlie (25 November 2010)

My big lad is a bolter and a napper, sometimes he will spin at a rabbit in a bush or because some person dares to walk along a public road. He absolutely would get a belt for that and would be forced forwards rather than me allow him to run up the road, so am I wrong for doing that? 16.3hh of  shire x coming flat out on a public road isn't something I want to sit on and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to meet it either.   

I think the rider did a very good job of controlling a horse that was quiet right to be concerned but was wrong to back off. This is what they are trained for and the rider needs to trust his horses 100% otherwise both their lives are at risk.


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

sugarmia said:



			Not sure I want to watch the video so obviously can't give an opinion. Imo no horse needs to be smacked to be 'diciplined' when they spook etc. I am in no way a fluffy bunny' at all. But they don't. If a horse kicks, bites agressivley then yes. But spooking is a natural reaction and I can't stand it when people tell them off for it.
		
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well, if you watch the video, you could give an opinion then


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## tinkandlily (25 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			well, if you watch the video, you could give an opinion then
		
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Agree, it's not THAT bad, are you sure your not a fluffy bunny?


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## Kenzo (25 November 2010)

The horse was hit, not something that's nice to see but these horses are trained to do a job, they MUST do it well and be brave, sometimes a horse has to take disapline from it's master in order for it to learn from situations for both the horse and riders safety.

There were offices standing behind, having a large animal like this runing or spining backwards into the other officers on foot would of been very dangerous and caused further problems.

At the time the police officer no doubt did what he felt was the most sensible thing to do at the time....whether it had a rug on or not shouldn't even come into to it.


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## sakura (25 November 2010)

the first time I watched that, I assumed the horse was being harshly hit and was pretty appalled..... however..... when I watched it again, properly, it was obvious to me that he was in fact using it to direct the foot police

I really don't think he was using it on the horse any more than a quick smack to stop it trampling the foot officers, and if I was in a similar situation, I'd do the same


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## turkana (25 November 2010)

It's a poor quality film so it's hard to tell but I don't think the officer did strike the horse, even if he did it really wasn't that bad. It was no more than a couple of smacks on top of a padded rug, it was hardly going to do the horse any harm.
I'm sure the officer did what he thought was necessary for the safety of the other officers standing behind him.
Reasurring an animal when it's afraid is often counter productive, the animal perceives the reasurrance as you saying "oh my God I'm scared as well"
I can't believe somebody has taken the time out of their day to complain about a police officer trying to keep his collegues (who were standing close behind him) from being trampled. Some people really do have too much time on their hands, I hope the complaint is treated like the waste of police time that it is.


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## s4sugar (25 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			For those of you who feel its OK to beat, thwack or smack. Here are the facts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfcc0hzGMU&feature=share

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What a one sided production - what are they selling?

Have they ever been near a horse or heard of bitless or bridleless riding? Or seen how a bit fits in the mouth?

Related to PETA perhaps?


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## 4faults (25 November 2010)

That is so infuriating!!!! He definetly hit the horse, you can hear the impact from the smacks even from that distance and the horse bucks a bit at the first one. 

And yet it doesnt appear he moves his legs at all!!!!!!!!

No justification at all for it, I dont care what training they have any animal would have been scared of that, in fact any person would have been scared of fireworks going off practically underneath them!!! 

If the officer wanted to send the horse forward he could have given it a few good kicks before resorting to that. Have you felt how heavy those batons are?


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## tinkandlily (25 November 2010)

4faults said:



			That is so infuriating!!!! He definetly hit the horse, you can hear the impact from the smacks even from that distance and the horse bucks a bit at the first one. 

And yet it doesnt appear he moves his legs at all!!!!!!!!

No justification at all for it, I dont care what training they have any animal would have been scared of that, in fact any person would have been scared of fireworks going off practically underneath them!!! 

If the officer wanted to send the horse forward he could have given it a few good kicks before resorting to that. Have you felt how heavy those batons are?
		
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Would you rather the horse trample the officers on foot then? a downed officer can be vulnerable to attack, i did defo see a small buck now that you've mentioned it, but no more of a buck than i've seen with someone getting a bit heavy handed with a whip but thoses horses are trained to deal with this sort of situation the others horses also panicked but held their ground and moved when asked.


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## Double_choc_lab (25 November 2010)

Ravenwood said:



			A police horse in active service doesn't get turned out unlike army horses who get time out.
		
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Then it must be cardboard cut outs in the field next to the Mounted Section in Bower Ashton then  (Talking about the same police force as in the video).

At first I was shocked by what I thought I saw.  But if I was in the same siutation I'm damn sure I would kick and use stick to get horse forward away from trampling anyone else.


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## legaldancer (25 November 2010)

Kenzo said:



			The horse was hit, not something that's nice to see but these horses are trained to do a job, they MUST do it well and be brave, sometimes a horse has to take disapline from it's master in order for it to learn from situations for both the horse and riders safety.

There were offices standing behind, having a large animal like this runing or spining backwards into the other officers on foot would of been very dangerous and caused further problems.

At the time the police officer no doubt did what he felt was the most sensible thing to do at the time....whether it had a rug on or not shouldn't even come into to it.
		
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Crikey - is this still going?! Read thread last night & left well alone, however I'll just echo what Kenzo & many others have said. The officers behind the horse obviously had to advance at that point. There was no time for any fluffiness - he had to move on then, not 5 minutes later. I'd have done the same in all probability.


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## 4faults (25 November 2010)

tinkandlily said:



			Would you rather the horse trample the officers on foot then? a downed officer can be vulnerable to attack, i did defo see a small buck now that you've mentioned it, but no more of a buck than i've seen with someone getting a bit heavy handed with a whip but thoses horses are trained to deal with this sort of situation the others horses also panicked but held their ground and moved when asked.
		
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This horse wasnt asked to move, thats my point. The officer didnt move his legs, he just hit it. I know exactly what these horses are trained for, my best friend works with our mounted sections and I routinely go to help with exercises if they need an extra body but any horse should be asked before being told. If the animal isnt trained enough to go off leg in any situation it shouldnt be on active riot duty.


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## Kenzo (25 November 2010)

Thing is though, the officers have spurs on, a few big kicks may of caused the horse more harm, also digging your spurs into the sides of a horse that is running back etc won't always send a horse forward, probably back off twice as fast, where as good clout on the backside maybe more effective, or perhaps would of been in that particular situation, you don't have time to weight things up, they just have to act and act fast.


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## Amymay (25 November 2010)

He's quite clearly bashing the horse.

I'm not sure how I feel if I'm honest.  All the horses reacted in the same way - startled.  Obviously in this situation you want them to be as unphased as possible.  But at the end of the day they are animals.......


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

between the timescale of 12 seconds and 18 seconds NO-ONE can see what the MPO was asking his horse to do as the camera was facing away from the MPO..

He could have asked the horse to walk on at least once, twice..100 times who knows..

It certainly walked on in a controlled manner after the alleged incident..so it didnt appear to be bothered, did it?


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

4faults said:



			This horse wasnt asked to move, thats my point. The officer didnt move his legs, he just hit it. .
		
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he was wearing spurs??..so he should be giving it a kick?..i dont think so


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## Sven (25 November 2010)

Oh good grief, the sounds of "bashing" you can hear is the batton extending (my brolly makes the same sound when I extend it).  If he had really hit that horse with that batton with that force, it would still be running or he'd be on the deck!  

His legs appear to be in contact with the horse at all times sending him forward and reassuring him, which if you want to remain secure on a scared horse is the best place to put them, if you take your legs away to "kick" it doesn't really help.  

But honestly - no one can really see what is happening the angle is all wrong. Some people just always want to see the bad, unfortunately.

Never mind with all the cuts you guys are about to get, there probably won't be many police horses around soon.


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## not_with_it (25 November 2010)

The officer is drawing his baton as trained to do. They dont just slide out, they are heavy and you have to be forcefull with them and throw them in a downward motion for them to extend. I have one so feel I am able to say.

 It is a bad camera angle but in all honesty I really dont think he hit the horse.


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

Sven said:



			Never mind with all the cuts you guys are about to get, there probably won't be many police horses around soon.
		
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nor wingeing, firework/extinguisher throwing students either..


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## ossy (25 November 2010)

*


4faults said:



			That is so infuriating!!!! He definetly hit the horse, you can hear the impact from the smacks even from that distance and the horse bucks a bit at the first one
		
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*


4faults said:



			. 

The horse is wearing a water proof exercise rug.  Not sure if that is what the sound is but Even the slightest flick of the schooling whip on my horse when wearing her waterproof exercise sheet makes a hell of a noise dosen't mean it was becasue I hit her that hard!



tinkandlily said:



			Would you rather the horse trample the officers on foot then? a downed officer can be vulnerable to attack, i did defo see a small buck now that you've mentioned it, but no more of a buck than i've seen with someone getting a bit heavy handed with a whip but thoses horses are trained to deal with this sort of situation the others horses also panicked but held their ground and moved when asked.
		
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^^^^ Couldn't agree more
These horses are trained to do a job they go through extensive "despooking" training and they need to do as asked immediatley they are there to help and protect not cause additional problems and a spooking horse can be dangerous in that kind of situation.  I have seen police horses deal with much worse situations at football matches I have been to and they barely move a muscle.  I'm not saying these horses are machines but they are trained to do the job.
		
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## OWLIE185 (25 November 2010)

I am appaled that someone should throw fireworks at the horses.  It could have caused serious injury to the horse, policeman and anyone else in the area.

I very much hope that they catch the person responsible  and that they get a nice long sentence at one of Her Majesty's Prisons older prisons.


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## 4faults (25 November 2010)

Oh please excuse me for having an opinion!!!!!!!


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## Ladylina83 (25 November 2010)

kaylouise67 said:



			Well done to the poor horse in the main shot though!!
		
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I thougt this too how bloody brave ! He just stands there and looks at it, you can really tell he's fighting his flight instinct ! Brave boy


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## tinkandlily (25 November 2010)

Ladylina83 said:



			I thougt this too how bloody brave ! He just stands there and looks at it, you can really tell he's fighting his flight instinct ! Brave boy
		
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The one in thet main shot is the one that got "beaten", if you watch when the camera points in that direction the second time, you can see the horse has bolted to the back.


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## 4faults (25 November 2010)

Ladylina83 said:



			I thougt this too how bloody brave ! He just stands there and looks at it, you can really tell he's fighting his flight instinct ! Brave boy
		
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They are so impressive arent they 

The idiot who threw the firework needs arresting. Really not helping their cause.


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## Palisan (25 November 2010)

Have looked at the video several times and the horse was definitely not hit. The police officer was just get the baton to extend. When he/she appears to hit down hardest with the baton the horse doesn't even flinch he bravely walks forward - it's obvious he hasn't been hit.
Instead of rushing to berate the mounted police (instead of praising both horse & rider for being so tolerant) we should be disgusted at the behaviour of people who are supposed to be intelligent - what sort of person behaves in such a way as these 'so called' students have been. I'm all for expressing your opinion & getting it heard but the violence that has been used by the 'student' protestors recently leaves me appalled at what is happening to our country. Violence is the voice of ignorance! They don't deserve to be given a place at any university.


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## noodle_ (25 November 2010)

im ashamed to be classed as a student.



put the bl00dy fees up for the scum coming up.....  those are the ones protesting as im already at uni - wont affect me.


appauled


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## PogoPumpkinBecky (25 November 2010)

Its not clear if he was hitting the horse but if he was thats horrible, they should have reasurred the horses not hit them! No animal would want to go towards a group of angry people throwing fireworks especially horses being flight animals! and i also think the students are behaving very stupidly, i am going to be affected by the student fees too, but throwing fireworks at horses isn't going to help them!


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## Ladylina83 (25 November 2010)

tinkandlily said:



			The one in thet main shot is the one that got "beaten", if you watch when the camera points in that direction the second time, you can see the horse has bolted to the back.
		
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Actually I mean the one at the front of the shot, as in closest to the camera - you know the one with the firework at its feet ! ! Jeees

I've watched it again and I don't think any contact was made !


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## spaniel (25 November 2010)

JUST TO UPDATE YOU ALL.

The officer used the baton to encourage the horse to move back up into the line.  The welfare of the horse and safety of all concerned in Bristol was ALWAYS uppermost and any suggestion of misuse is ALWAYS investigated.  There were 4 arrests and that includes the person with the firework.


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## Camel (25 November 2010)

If you look at the begining of the video the Officers Batons are all already extended (attached to their right legs) so I am going with the theory that he was directing the police on the ground ... or giving the horse a couple of smacks to make it go forward.

Sometimes it's not a perfect world, sometimes police horses aren't 100% bombproof and ready to go on the frontline and a situation may arise that isn't ideal (tosspot firework throwing students!) all a MPO can do is deal with it as he see's fit in that split second  he has to make a decision.

xx


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## amage (25 November 2010)

spaniel said:



			JUST TO UPDATE YOU ALL.

The officer used the baton to encourage the horse to move back up into the line.  The welfare of the horse and safety of all concerned in Bristol was ALWAYS uppermost and any suggestion of misuse is ALWAYS investigated.  There were 4 arrests and that includes the person with the firework.
		
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I got to this post too late! was about to post to say that it was most likely a technique used to divert the horses attention from the firework and back to his rider! It looked like the rider swung to give it a serious smack but the horse didn't even flinch. I know a member of the Irish Mounted unit described a similiar diversionary tactic to me when dealing with spooky horses in a high pressure situation where you can either use a mild tap or a swing to "show" a horse a whip similiarly to what jockeys do to bring the horses attention back to their handler.


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## tinkandlily (25 November 2010)

Ladylina83 said:



			Actually I mean the one at the front of the shot, as in closest to the camera - you know the one with the firework at its feet ! ! Jeees

I've watched it again and I don't think any contact was made !
		
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I know which one your talking about it's stands while the firework is near it's feet, then the camera looks at the crowd, looks back to where the horse was standing and it has moved back  and it is the one that gets hit.


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

spaniel said:



			JUST TO UPDATE YOU ALL.

The officer used the baton to encourage the horse to move back up into the line.  The welfare of the horse and safety of all concerned in Bristol was ALWAYS uppermost and any suggestion of misuse is ALWAYS investigated.  There were 4 arrests and that includes the person with the firework.
		
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i was hoping you would ask ****** ******  of the Avon & Somerset Mounted Police Division, the real story.

i'm glad they could confirm what happened.

thank you Spaniel


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## *hic* (25 November 2010)

I'm glad they got the idiot with the firework. If they'd like any suggestions as to what they could do with a firework to show him the error of his ways I can think of several.


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

jemima_too said:



			I'm glad they got the idiot with the firework. If they'd like any suggestions as to what they could do with a firework to show him the error of his ways I can think of several.
		
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would that involve places where the sun doesn't shine?


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## *hic* (25 November 2010)

Could well do!


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## Groom42 (25 November 2010)

4faults said:



			Have you felt how heavy those batons are?
		
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Yep! PR24 - 24" long black polycarbonate.  Not terribly heavy, or I couldn't have walked aroung for 8plus hours a day carrying one without doing myself a damage! Damn awkward at times, though. The Asp is a shorter, thinner, retractable baton. Certainly in our force the only officers to carry an Asp were Plain Clothes officers, as they needed to be a bit more discrete. The PR24 was carried by uniformed officers as it was immediately available without the faff of trying to get an Asp extended, which was an art form! I certainly preferred the PR24, notwithstanding the age-old problem of getting batteries to fit


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## Double_choc_lab (25 November 2010)

Groom42 said:



			Yep! PR24 - 24" long black polycarbonate.  Not terribly heavy, or I couldn't have walked aroung for 8plus hours a day carrying one without doing myself a damage! Damn awkward at times, though. The Asp is a shorter, thinner, retractable baton. Certainly in our force the only officers to carry an Asp were Plain Clothes officers, as they needed to be a bit more discrete. The PR24 was carried by uniformed officers as it was immediately available without the faff of trying to get an Asp extended, which was an art form! I certainly preferred the PR24, notwithstanding the age-old problem of getting batteries to fit 

Click to expand...

And I remember the days when WPCs had silly 9" wooden truncheons which fitted in their handbags.  Yes I've heard all the jokes and more


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

i was going to say what use is 9 inches...but i wont.


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## Double_choc_lab (25 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			i was going to say what use is 9 inches...but i wont.
		
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Well it wouldn't encourage your horse forward would it
(to bring it back to the thread subject).  Tee hee


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

maybe not


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## Spudlet (25 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			i was going to say what use is 9 inches...but i wont.
		
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You and your ballet shoes obsession...


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

Spudlet said:



			You and your ballet shoes obsession...

Click to expand...


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## Groom42 (25 November 2010)

Double_choc_lab said:



			And I remember the days when WPCs had silly 9" wooden truncheons which fitted in their handbags.  Yes I've heard all the jokes and more
		
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Had one of those - and a lantern, and a cape, and a stupid soft felt hat that was neither use nor ornament!


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

Groom42 said:



			Had one of those - and a lantern, and a cape, and a stupid soft felt hat that was neither use nor ornament!
		
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Crikey..i knew i recognised you...

you're Dixon of Dock Green!!!!

i loved ALL your programmes


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## Groom42 (25 November 2010)

It was a VERY long time ago!  Think, Miners' Strike and Life on Mars though, rather than Dixon. Oh, and Molesworth, Newbury Common and associated "female" protestors! Yuk! 20 years later, many things had changed (inc. smart hard hats!) and, unfortunately, many hadn't!


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## EAST KENT (25 November 2010)

And Breathe..what a lot of daft fuss over a horse getting/not getting a wallop for being disobedient.These are tools of the trade..there is`nt time for arguement,they do their job.No doubt said horse will be having an awful lot of firework exposure in a while to brush up its attitude.


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## killikyle (25 November 2010)

ethicaltrainer said:



			Thank you for posting this!
You can complain at https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/contact/general_enquiries/complaint_form.aspx

I have, that poor horse is doing its job as best it can. To beat i8t with a metal truncheon is unjust. I feel we should call for this officer to be retrained, a vet to asses this horse and the horse be retrained/rehabilitated.
		
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Give me strength   
	
	
		
		
	


	





Thanks to Spudlet et al (who live in the REAL world) for providing some light humour throughout this ridiculousness.


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## skewby (25 November 2010)

QR

Not read all of thread as it is far too long, only read OP and this has probably been said, but, I think the rider rode excellently.  The baton was brandished at the crowd and not brought down hard.  Those horses are warriors, they need their rider to show conviction.  It's the same as me giving my horse a smack when going into something big out hunting.  It's me conveying my conviction, when I am in truth a bit scared and cannot rely on my body to do it.  Think of the consequences of the horse taking control and bolting through that crowd.  The **** who merits your wrath is the one who set a firework off amongst them.  I am a student myself but utterly disassociate myself from this bunch of little lord fauntleroys who are using this as an excuse to behave badly, as this is as exciting as their lives will clearly ever get.


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## Kokopelli (25 November 2010)

Not sure if anyone else is watching BBC news but its actually on the news tonight as so many complaints made about it.

I'm not angry at the police officer I think he did the best in a sticky situation but I am fuming at the idiot who threw a firework at a horse  Why would someone do that?!?


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## irishdraught (25 November 2010)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11839891

Hopefully this should give the link to the Police response to the complaints.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the protesting students. *******s!


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## DragonSlayer (25 November 2010)

Double_choc_lab said:



			And I remember the days when WPCs had silly 9" wooden truncheons which fitted in their handbags.  Yes I've heard all the jokes and more
		
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I remember the Sarge passing me mine, and I naively said...

'...what do I do with THIS little thing then Sarge?'...

He replied....

'...Id get the sack if I told you what I thought!'..

Hahahaha!


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## tinkandlily (25 November 2010)

Kokopelli said:



			Not sure if anyone else is watching BBC news but its actually on the news tonight as so many complaints made about it.

I'm not angry at the police officer I think he did the best in a sticky situation but I am fuming at the idiot who threw a firework at a horse  Why would someone do that?!?
		
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Think i'll watch that what time? It'll be interesting what sort of comments have been made


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## berry (25 November 2010)

I dont know what all the fuss is. Police horses are trained for situations like this. If the horse isnt up to the job it gets passed on. 
I for one dont class that as a beating, and as for the people that have complained to the police force about this police officer, you obviously have nothing better to do then trying to get a police officer put under investigation. 
Not all of us live in some sugar coated world where everything is done gently and slowly, somethings do need a bit of a firm hand. I am not saying that I beat my horse, I dont even ride carrying a whip with her as she is terrified but if she is putting herself in a potentially dangerous situation then yes I would think about think about giving her a couple of whacks!!!!!!!!!!


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## HBBambee (25 November 2010)

Yes this is now on the news as "animal cruelty"
The PC did exactly the right thing IMO, an individual very experienced and trained in this area. 
There are more improtant things in life to worry about than reporting a PC for doing what he felt was best in the situation he was in!
I would of liked to see how some you (bunny brushers) would of acted in that situation. I'm sure a smooth and pat would of got you quite far down that road, at speed while taking out a few ground officers at the same time.
Honestly get a grip.
Rolls eyes....


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## Kokopelli (25 November 2010)

tinkandlily said:



			Think i'll watch that what time? It'll be interesting what sort of comments have been made
		
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Its on now, channel 1


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## Mogg (25 November 2010)

from BBC website today:

Sgt Kerry Williams, from the force's mounted section, said the horses were startled when the firework was thrown.

She said: "A number of comments have been received from members of the public claiming that a mounted officer had 'beaten' their horse. This was not the case.

"The mounted officers follow strict training protocol in calming and controlling their horses in potentially volatile situations.

"One officer used a baton to gain control of his horse which had been spooked by fireworks or firecrackers, and actually struck the horse on a padded covering on their hind quarters."

She added: "We would never advocate the use of baton by an officer to strike a horse.

"However, in this set of circumstances, in a contained environment, the officer concerned had to make a snap decision to get the horse under control, for the sake of the public safety and that of the nearby foot officers.


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## hannahbanana (25 November 2010)

I don't care if this has already been posted: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11839891

(My opinion about using a carrot stick - it's a schooling whip with a bit of rope on the end. If you were to take that near my first pony, who was quite difficult with a lot of things, he would go for you! And after seeing the video of Parelli at Festival of the Horse this year - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gf7w_1ifus -, I have decided that there is nothing natural or horsemanship about the way that they handled that horse. Monty Roberts FTW!)


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

The horse involved is called Brunell.....no doubt named after Isamdard Kingdom..

he has been checked out by a vet....and infact was out on Patrol today..none the worse for his "beating"...

people this day and age, have far too much time on their hands to actually complain about a trivial matter..why not campaign for tougher action against the morons who violently demontrated, and threw an offensive weapon yesterday...no wonder this country is on its knees...


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## MurphysMinder (25 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			The horse involved is called Brunell.....no doubt named after Isamdard Kingdom..

he has been checked out by a vet....and infact was out on Patrol today..none the worse for his "beating"...

people this day and age, have far too much time on their hands to actually complain about a trivial matter..why not campaign for tougher action against the morons who violently demontrated, and threw an offensive weapon yesterday...no wonder this country is on its knees...

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, hope the PO involved doesn't get too much grief from the people who think the horse was "beaten".


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## Umbongo (25 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			people this day and age, have far too much time on their hands to actually complain about a trivial matter..why not campaign for tougher action against the morons who violently demontrated, and threw an offensive weapon yesterday...no wonder this country is on its knees...

Click to expand...

Agreed. I actually cannot believe that some people ACTUALLY made a formal complaint about this!!!!!!

I watched it on the tv, I did not think the horse was beaten, if the horse WAS actually hit...then it was a few blows on a padded blanket ffs. I would like to have seen what a lot of people who have complained do in that situation. I think the rider handled it very well considering a firework was going off at the poor horses feet!

I just can't get my head around the fact that people are outraged at a horse supposedly being beaten...which just isn't true....rather than the fact that some idiot threw a firework at a horse!!! Also even if the horse was hit a few times with a batton on a padded blanket, I am sure the rider would have rather have done that than have the horse bulldoze over a few protesters and police officers that were standing there. The rider made a quick decision for the safety of everyone around.

I actually feel so sorry and embarrassed for them having to issue an explanation to the ridiculous complaints made.

I have seen worse at the local pony club!

Nuff said.


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## hannahbanana (25 November 2010)

heather_bambi said:



			Agreed. I actually cannot believe that some people ACTUALLY made a formal complaint about this!!!!!!

I watched it on the tv, I did not think the horse was hit, if the horse WAS actually hit...then it was a soft blow on a padded blanket ffs. I would like to have seen what a lot of people who have complained do in that situation. I think the rider handled it very well considering a firework was going off at the poor horses feet!

I just can't get my head around the fact that people are outraged at a horse supposedly being beaten...which just isn't true....rather than the fact that some idiot threw a firework at a horse!!! 

I actually feel so sorry and embarrassed for them having to issue an explanation to the ridiculous complaints made.

I have seen worse at the local pony club!

Nuff said.
		
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^ I second that


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

i bet the shoe would have been on the other foot if the headlines read...

POLICE HORSE GOES ON RAMPAGE THROUGH CROWD AFTER SPOOKING AT FIREWORK

i can see the do-gooders comments now....tossers


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## spaniel (25 November 2010)

aaaaagh....the horse is fine,  no ones died,  he would have got more than that wallop off a playful field mate  FFS,  nobody did anything wrong apart from the knob who chucked the firework.


sheeeesh


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## tania01 (25 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			i bet the shoe would have been on the other foot if the headlines read...

POLICE HORSE GOES ON RAMPAGE THROUGH CROWD AFTER SPOOKING AT FIREWORK

i can see the do-gooders comments now....tossers 

Click to expand...

100% Agree.


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## Groom42 (25 November 2010)

People are so quick to complain, how about all those on this thread who have seen the appropriateness of the Pc's action write to A and S offering support to the officer concerned, to offset some of the ridiculous "fluffy" complaints? (With a link to this thread)


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

i have done just that G42...

I emailed the A & S...AND forwarded this thread...

i reiterated that the thread contained many posters supporting them...and a few weirdos


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## CorvusCorax (25 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			The horse involved is called Brunell.....no doubt named after Isamdard Kingdom..
		
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How ironic.


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

CaveCanem said:



			How ironic.
		
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why?


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## Groom42 (25 November 2010)

Email sent.


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## Unbeliever (25 November 2010)

FYI, it is an offence in Scotland to whip a horse as punishment.

Wonder if responses would be different if the guy was wearing a cowboy hat....


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## martlin (25 November 2010)

Not again, please


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## whiteflower (25 November 2010)

retracting baton - noise that can be heard is as it extends, it sounds exactly like that (a cracking sound !) and it often takes a few goes to get them out as they stick !!

even if he was hitting the horse (my personal view is he isnt) horse is about to trample a line of officers


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			Wonder if responses would be different if the guy was wearing a cowboy hat....
		
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2 huge differences...

the MPO was doing his job

the other is a charlatan...who makes scamming his job.


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## Irishlife (25 November 2010)

I saw a police horse in the city of London in heavy traffic who farted around at a red traffic light. WPC rider gave him two good digs with the spurs and yelled at him. He then stood quietly. These animals have to be disciplined beyond any ordinary horse and when they break the boundaries need to respond immediately.


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## CorvusCorax (25 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			why?
		
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Oh you know, a name I associate with grit, tenacity, hard work, steel, innovation, pioneering, not whingeing and complaining.....


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## Unbeliever (25 November 2010)

Irishlife said:



			I saw a police horse in the city of London in heavy traffic who farted around at a red traffic light. WPC rider gave him two good digs with the spurs and yelled at him. He then stood quietly. These animals have to be disciplined beyond any ordinary horse and when they break the boundaries need to respond immediately.
		
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Seem to recall another thread recently about the use of spurs.


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## paulineh (25 November 2010)

If you take the clip and slow it down there is no contact with the horse.

The baton is being positioned ready to move towards the students (Crowd)

It does look (From a distance that there is some contact) as if contact is made but the horse is swinging.


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## nativetyponies (25 November 2010)

CaveCanem said:



			Oh you know, a name I associate with grit, tenacity, hard work, steel, innovation, pioneering, not whingeing and complaining.....
		
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ironic indeed


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## Unbeliever (25 November 2010)

paulineh said:



			If you take the clip and slow it down there is no contact with the horse.

The baton is being positioned ready to move towards the students (Crowd)

It does look (From a distance that there is some contact) as if contact is made but the horse is swinging.
		
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Think you need to look at the clip again. The people behind are a line of police officers, not students. People see what they want to see even if they can review the clip again & again.


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## Spudlet (25 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			Think you need to look at the clip again. The people behind are a line of police officers, not students. People see what they want to see even if they can review the clip again & again.
		
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Don't they just

BTW, would you be interested in purchasing my series of DVDs... or maybe you already have them!


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## paulineh (25 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			Think you need to look at the clip again. The people behind are a line of police officers, not students. People see what they want to see even if they can review the clip again & again.
		
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I think you better read my post again. I did not say the people behind the horse But the people in FRONT of the horse are the students.

"The baton is being positioned ready to MOVE TOWARDS the students (Crowd)"


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## mymare (25 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			FYI, it is an offence in Scotland to whip a horse as punishment.

Wonder if responses would be different if the guy was wearing a cowboy hat....
		
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You what????!!!!  PMSL!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## china (25 November 2010)

paulineh said:



			If you take the clip and slow it down there is no contact with the horse.

The baton is being positioned ready to move towards the students (Crowd)

It does look (From a distance that there is some contact) as if contact is made but the horse is swinging.
		
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it has just been on the news and they have just confirmed that the police officer was hitting his horse.


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## mymare (25 November 2010)

Which news?


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## sykokat (25 November 2010)

china said:



			it has just been on the news and they have just confirmed that the police officer was hitting his horse.
		
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AND??? So what if he/ she did!!! The horses wear a padded sheet. I fail to see where this is going. The police have a difficult enough job without this sort of trash!!! I said earlier that if I sat on a horse that behaved like that on a potentially dangerous situation I would/have done precisely the same.


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## china (25 November 2010)

i cant say i would have hit the horse and scared it even more, maybe a good rub pat, good bit of leg and encouragment. But we all know everyone has there own opinions so theres no point going into it.


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## Brontie (25 November 2010)

http://www.bristolwired.co.uk/news.php/110996-Police-deny-mistreatment-of-horse-at-Bristol-protest

There you go. Police statement regarding the incident ^

And a photo, I found fascinating, by the way it was captured


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## Pipkin (25 November 2010)

Brontie said:



http://www.bristolwired.co.uk/news.php/110996-Police-deny-mistreatment-of-horse-at-Bristol-protest

There you go. Police statement regarding the incident ^

And a photo, I found fascinating, by the way it was captured






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You beat me to it!!! Excuse the pun!

I stand by my opinion, the horse needed to be brought back under control and not be a possible risk to others..... couple of slaps way better than fatalities!

From the news report

'Padded covering'

Sgt Kerry Williams, from the force's mounted section, said the horses were startled when the firework was thrown.

She said: "A number of comments have been received from members of the public claiming that a mounted officer had 'beaten' their horse. This was not the case.

"The mounted officers follow strict training protocol in calming and controlling their horses in potentially volatile situations.


About 2,000 people protested against plans to increase university tuition fees "One officer used a baton to gain control of his horse which had been spooked by fireworks or firecrackers, and actually struck the horse on a padded covering on their hind quarters."

She added: "We would never advocate the use of baton by an officer to strike a horse. 

"However, in this set of circumstances, in a contained environment, the officer concerned had to make a snap decision to get the horse under control, for the sake of the public safety and that of the nearby foot officers.


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## Pipkin (25 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			i have done just that G42...

I emailed the A & S...AND forwarded this thread...

i reiterated that the thread contained many posters supporting them...and a few weirdos 

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NP I salute you!!!!


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## Sarah Sum1 (25 November 2010)

I'm a big softie and hate seeing animals used in riots etc. I can't help but wonder how petrified they must be at times. Yes they are trained, but they don;t have human reasoning and must be utterly confused and scared of us humans at times. 

That said, I also feel for any man who has to stand against people like that!

ETA Can't make the 'beating' part out properly, so won't comment on that.


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## firm (25 November 2010)

I hope that photograph drives home to some people on this thead the important issue is that someone deliberately threw fireworks at horses.


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## *hic* (25 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			i have done just that G42...

I emailed the A & S...AND forwarded this thread...

i reiterated that the thread contained many posters supporting them...and a few weirdos 

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RIght, that's it NP, you owe me half a glass of fizz that I just spat out all over my hkeyboard!


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## CorvusCorax (25 November 2010)

That photo has made me even more angry - ride over the top of the wee scrotes!!!


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## Groom42 (25 November 2010)

jemima_too said:



			RIght, that's it NP, you owe me half a glass of fizz that I just spat out all over my hkeyboard! 

Click to expand...

Top Trumps......... I used the "rabbit embracing" phrase in MINE!!!!


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## Unbeliever (25 November 2010)

mymare said:



			You what????!!!!  PMSL!!!!!!!!!!!!
		
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'tis true. One of the benefits of our last government. Makes you think doesn't it?


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## Mike007 (25 November 2010)

I still think the question is whether the horses should have been there in the first place. Without them , a firework yeah ,so what.!They serve no usefull purpose and create problems.


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## Ebenezer_Scrooge (26 November 2010)

CaveCanem said:



			That photo has made me even more angry - ride over the top of the wee scrotes!!!
		
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Well said.  It is the rioters  that should be investigated not the mounted police


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## Unbeliever (26 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			'tis true. One of the benefits of our last government. Makes you think doesn't it?

Click to expand...

Quoting myself (how sad is that?)

I searched out the relevant legislation. With luck it might make some think.

Animal Health & Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006

"_ It is an offence to cause an animal unnecessary suffering; therefore, any discipline should be appropriate, timely, reasonable and proportionate. A whip or a stick should only be used as an additional aid, not as a means of punishment. Similarly any restraint method used to assist normal management or treatment of the animal should be the most mild and effective method available and should be applied by a competent person only for the minimum period necessary. Sedatives must only be used under veterinary advice. Roundpens and small electrified fenced areas should not be used to discipline animals and are not suitable for keeping them in for long periods of time_."


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## Mike007 (26 November 2010)

my-princess-pony said:



			I'm not suprised in the slightest that this officer abused her horse ( and will no doubt get away with it) they do it to humans often enough......
Dont forget that police are above the law and don't have to abide by rules like the rest of us.
		
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OMG this lot are going to burn you as a witch and a heretic!!Unfortunately there is a certain amount of truth in what you say. But I would say that MOST officers dont abuse their horses,and MOST officers believe in and abide by the law! I say this having seen the rough end of all this.


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## tinkandlily (26 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:





Quoting myself (how sad is that?)

I searched out the relevant legislation. With luck it might make some think.

Animal Health & Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006

"_ It is an offence to cause an animal unnecessary suffering; therefore, any discipline should be appropriate, timely, reasonable and proportionate. A whip or a stick should only be used as an additional aid, not as a means of punishment. Similarly any restraint method used to assist normal management or treatment of the animal should be the most mild and effective method available and should be applied by a competent person only for the minimum period necessary. Sedatives must only be used under veterinary advice. Roundpens and small electrified fenced areas should not be used to discipline animals and are not suitable for keeping them in for long periods of time_."
		
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It's funny though, race horses get whipped the hell out of just to make them go faster but it's allowed i just don't get it


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## tinkandlily (26 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			OMG this lot are going to burn you as a witch and a heretic!!Unfortunately there is a certain amount of truth in what you say. But I would say that MOST officers dont abuse their horses,and MOST officers believe in and abide by the law! I say this having seen the rough end of all this.
		
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Agree, when you really need help from an officer you'll change your tune.


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## Zoobie (26 November 2010)

my-princess-pony said:



			I'm not suprised in the slightest that this officer abused her horse ( and will no doubt get away with it) they do it to humans often enough......
Dont forget that police are above the law and don't have to abide by rules like the rest of us.
		
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Oh FFS what a crock of shite,  and without doubt one of the most stupid commets I've ever read on here and I've read a fair few - what about the ***** who threw the fireworks, I suppose you would give them a pat on the back and a bunny hug.....


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## doonrocket (26 November 2010)

Wow what an explosive thread!

Firstly I was there.  (10 meters away!)

Brunel - a brave and decent horse was not hurt or hit with any force.
(He has been examined)

Secondly the students were no problem. There were maybe three idiots in the crowd. Most were 6th form kids and 99.99% of people there were no problem - in fact polite and considerate. 

Mike - your wrong, without the horses we would have needed about 200 further officers. They are an excellent effective tool.

If the officer had not controled the horse, I would be typing this from my hospital bed!


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## Zoobie (26 November 2010)

My horse in my siggy is failed police horse - he wasn't very good in public order situations he would kick shite of anyone near him


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## tinkandlily (26 November 2010)

doonrocket said:



			Wow what an explosive thread!

Firstly I was there.  (10 meters away!)

Brunel - a brave and decent horse was not hurt or hit with any force.
(He has been examined)

Secondly the students were no problem. There were maybe three idiots in the crowd. Most were 6th form kids and 99.99% of people there were no problem - in fact polite and considerate. 

Mike - your wrong, without the horses we would have needed about 200 further officers. They are an excellent effective tool.

If the officer had not controled the horse, I would be typing this from my hospital bed!
		
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Where were you 30 pages ago lol


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## doonrocket (26 November 2010)

He looks very friendly now!


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## tinkandlily (26 November 2010)

Zoobie said:



			My horse in my siggy is failed police horse - he wasn't very good in public order situations he would kick shite of anyone near him
		
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What's that got to do with anything?


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## hadfos (26 November 2010)

CaveCanem said:



			That photo has made me even more angry - ride over the top of the wee scrotes!!!
		
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The smiley faced clever *******s stood in the background deserve a fooking good stomping on in my opinion!


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## Zoobie (26 November 2010)

tinkandlily said:



			What's that got to do with anything?[/QUOTE


Oh I'm sorry does not that fit your criteria for this thread - my most sincere humble apologies I'll send you a preview for your approval in future sweetie
		
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## Zoobie (26 November 2010)

doonrocket said:



			He looks very friendly now!
		
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Oh he can still have his moments but as long as we dont have riots I should be ok


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## hadfos (26 November 2010)

my-princess-pony said:



			I'm not suprised in the slightest that this officer abused her horse ( and will no doubt get away with it) they do it to humans often enough......
Dont forget that police are above the law and don't have to abide by rules like the rest of us.
		
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You are having a fooking laugh right?!!!!
Please feel free to share your experience of police officers beating their horses???


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## tinkandlily (26 November 2010)

Zoobie said:





tinkandlily said:



			What's that got to do with anything?[/QUOTE


Oh I'm sorry does not that fit your criteria for this thread - my most sincere humble apologies I'll send you a preview for your approval in future sweetie
		
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No need to get sarcy, this thread is about weather an officer did or did not hit the horse, i just didn't see the point in your post thats all
		
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## Mike007 (26 November 2010)

doonrocket said:



			Wow what an explosive thread!

Firstly I was there.  (10 meters away!)

Brunel - a brave and decent horse was not hurt or hit with any force.
(He has been examined)

Secondly the students were no problem. There were maybe three idiots in the crowd. Most were 6th form kids and 99.99% of people there were no problem - in fact polite and considerate. 

Mike - your wrong, without the horses we would have needed about 200 further officers. They are an excellent effective tool.

If the officer had not controled the horse, I would be typing this from my hospital bed!
		
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 Yes they were 99.9% kids and we dont use cavalry/cossacks  on kids .I disagree with your position and dont think there is much place for police horses except as PR wandering round parks.As the army say, ground is taken by foot soldiers ,not cavalry or tanks . An individual officer on foot is in a much better position to moderate his/her offensive.Horses are bad news in a crowd control situation.


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## doonrocket (26 November 2010)

Interesting position Mike. Not sure it comes from experience. It certainly sounds like you have little knowledge of police horse tactics.


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## tinkandlily (26 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Yes they were 99.9% kids and we dont use cavalry/cossacks  on kids .I disagree with your position and dont think there is much place for police horses except as PR wandering round parks.As the army say, ground is taken by foot soldiers ,not cavalry or tanks . An individual officer on foot is in a much better position to moderate his/her offensive.Horses are bad news in a crowd control situation.
		
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Thats not true, at football games that have gotten out of control, the horses formed a soild line and moved together as one, a pretty affective and formidable defence imo who going to barge past a line of horses?
An officer on horse back has a higher vantage point and can spot trouble before those on foot and if need be stand between rivaling groups and drive them away from each other.
They are also pleasing to see and many people are more willing to talk to a mounted officer, rather than those on foot which can prove valuable.


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## Mike007 (26 November 2010)

tinkandlily said:



			Thats not true, at football games that have gotten out of control, the horses formed a soild line and moved together as one, a pretty affective and formidable defence imo who going to barge past a line of horses?
An officer on horse back has a higher vantage point and can spot trouble before those on foot and if need be stand between rivaling groups and drive them away from each other.
They are also pleasing to see and many people are more willing to talk to a mounted officer, rather than those on foot which can prove valuable.
		
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But ultimately their efffectiveness is only to trample or smash skulls.


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## tinkandlily (26 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			But ultimately their efffectiveness is only to trample or smash skulls.
		
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I have never once heard of a horse stepping on anyone and in FACT they are trained to step over people on the floor.


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## Mike007 (26 November 2010)

doonrocket said:



			Interesting position Mike. Not sure it comes from experience. It certainly sounds like you have little knowledge of police horse tactics.
		
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LOL.


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## hadfos (26 November 2010)

tinkandlily said:



			Thats not true, at football games that have gotten out of control, the horses formed a soild line and moved together as one, a pretty affective and formidable defence imo who going to barge past a line of horses?
An officer on horse back has a higher vantage point and can spot trouble before those on foot and if need be stand between rivaling groups and drive them away from each other.
They are also pleasing to see and many people are more willing to talk to a mounted officer, rather than those on foot which can prove valuable.
		
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Hypocrytical??Read your other posts!!


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## doonrocket (26 November 2010)

Sounds like you've had a bad experience Mike?


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## tinkandlily (26 November 2010)

hadfos said:



			Hypocrytical??Read your other posts!!
		
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Why is it hypocrytical? please inlighten me i don't belive i said anything about horses not being usefull


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## hadfos (26 November 2010)

hadfos said:



			Hypocrytical??Read your other posts!!
		
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Aimed at Mike007


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## hadfos (26 November 2010)

tinkandlily said:



			Why is it hypocrytical? please inlighten me i don't belive i said anything about horses not being usefull
		
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lol see above  x


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## Mike007 (26 November 2010)

More of a sad disillusion of their effectiveness.


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## tinkandlily (26 November 2010)

hadfos said:



			lol see above  x
		
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Lol sorry it's coz you quoted my comment


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## doonrocket (26 November 2010)

Not quite sure what you mean Mike. Have you seen police horses "crushing skulls" I'm interested if this opinion is formed though logical opinion through imagined scenarios, or personal experience as an officer or demonstrator?


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## Mike007 (26 November 2010)

I think my position is quite clear and not the least hypocritical. I support the officer in question ,but I dont think the horses should have been there.


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## hadfos (26 November 2010)

tinkandlily said:



			Lol sorry it's coz you quoted my comment

Click to expand...

Lol...yeh sorry about that,re read after i had posted what i was supposed to reply and thought "That wasnt it",lol  x


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## Mike007 (26 November 2010)

doonrocket said:



			Not quite sure what you mean Mike. Have you seen police horses "crushing skulls" I'm interested if this opinion is formed though logical opinion through imagined scenarios, or personal experience as an officer or demonstrator?
		
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Think about it, ultimately what can an officer on a horse actualy do!Basicly it is to intimidate a crowd, ..but if the crowd wont or cant back  away.??


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## tinkandlily (26 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			More of a sad disillusion of their effectiveness.
		
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Well thats your opinion, but i think the horses do a wonderful job and have helped officers defuse situations that could otherwise get out of control, with them having a higher vantage point the offivers can spot a potential threat then direct the foot officers to the situation or away from potential danger very usefull imo


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## doonrocket (26 November 2010)

Cards on the table Mike.

I was a serial sgt in the police line directly behind the horses in the BBC clip we discussed. I have 15 years experience of disorder and working with police horses. Trust me, they are invaluable at holding cordons and getting to places vehicles can't and officers would take to long to. Yes they have their limitations, but without them yesterday there would have been mayhem. If you felt like I did when I crashed on the sofa last night after a hard day you would understand.

I take it from your previous answer that your opinion does not come from a position of experience.


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## Mike007 (26 November 2010)

Again LOL ,Have served the crown for 20 years, not in the police, I do know about crowd control,and I still think horses are a liability.


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## doonrocket (26 November 2010)

aaah, a few tours of Northern Ireland? Well I would agree with you there, but pipe bombs on the Falls road is a very different kettle of fish from a wednesday afternoon in Bristol.


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## Mike007 (26 November 2010)

Not my patch,the falls road ,but the principle is all the same. Best crowd ontrol I have ever seen was a single officer on wesminster bridge during the countryside alliance protest. Kept hundreds of people in order,to their own benefit,simply by his own natural authority. Wish I had got his number. The man was a star! Bloody horses! Dont get me wrong I am not anti police by any means,I just question the methods sometimes.


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## scotlass (26 November 2010)

quirky said:



			Nope, don't see a problem there.

If he wanted the horse to go forward and it wouldn't, a couple of cracks on its backside is the right thing to do.
I don't think you actually get the full sequence of events from that clip.

As for complaining about the officer, I am gob smacked .
		
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Ditto


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## piebaldsparkle (26 November 2010)

doonrocket said:



			Wow what an explosive thread!

Firstly I was there.  (10 meters away!)

Brunel - a brave and decent horse was not hurt or hit with any force.
(He has been examined)

Secondly the students were no problem. There were maybe three idiots in the crowd. Most were 6th form kids and 99.99% of people there were no problem - in fact polite and considerate. 

Mike - your wrong, without the horses we would have needed about 200 further officers. They are an excellent effective tool.

If the officer had not controled the horse, I would be typing this from my hospital bed!
		
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  LOL where were you 30 pages ago?


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## DragonSlayer (26 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Not my patch,the falls road ,but the principle is all the same. Best crowd ontrol I have ever seen was a single officer on wesminster bridge during the countryside alliance protest. Kept hundreds of people in order,to their own benefit,simply by his own natural authority. Wish I had got his number. The man was a star! Bloody horses! Dont get me wrong I am not anti police by any means,I just question the methods sometimes.
		
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I hate to say it, but the Countryside Alliance march had a little more decorum than a bunch of students out looking for trouble, and yes, it has been STATED that many were there purely for this fact...

Shall we ditch the horses then, lose the crowd control and when the looters start looting your house, thats ok then? Or will your single officer control the 400+ protestors?

Good luck with that.


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## Zoobie (26 November 2010)

tinkandlily said:





Zoobie said:



			No need to get sarcy, this thread is about weather an officer did or did not hit the horse, i just didn't see the point in your post thats all
		
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Blimey your still trying to dictate what/tone of reply I should use - hope this meets with your approval
		
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## dominobrown (26 November 2010)

Why on earth is everyone bothered about the police officer?? 
What about the idiots that thre FIREWORKS at a horse???????!!!!!!
Thats cruel!


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## penhwnllys_stardust (26 November 2010)

Zoobie said:



			My horse in my siggy is failed police horse - he wasn't very good in public order situations he would kick shite of anyone near him
		
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sounds like the perfect police horse to me


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## mymare (26 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			'tis true. One of the benefits of our last government. Makes you think doesn't it?

Click to expand...

No I don't believe you sorry.  Could you put a link up please to prove that as I can't find anything.  Thanks.


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## mymare (26 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:





Quoting myself (how sad is that?)

I searched out the relevant legislation. With luck it might make some think.

Animal Health & Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006

"_ It is an offence to cause an animal unnecessary suffering; therefore, any discipline should be appropriate, timely, reasonable and proportionate. A whip or a stick should only be used as an additional aid, not as a means of punishment. Similarly any restraint method used to assist normal management or treatment of the animal should be the most mild and effective method available and should be applied by a competent person only for the minimum period necessary. Sedatives must only be used under veterinary advice. Roundpens and small electrified fenced areas should not be used to discipline animals and are not suitable for keeping them in for long periods of time_."
		
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Ok didn't see this sorry.  So where does it say it's illegal to whip a horse?  Do you have a link that proves this?  What you have quoted above says nothing of the sort.  "A whip or a stick should be used as an additional aid.." which is exactly what it was being used for in the clip.  Doesn't say anything about it being illegal to use a whip in Scotland..


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## Maesfen (26 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Not my patch,the falls road ,but the principle is all the same. Best crowd ontrol I have ever seen was a single officer on wesminster bridge during the countryside alliance protest. Kept hundreds of people in order,to their own benefit,simply by his own natural authority. Wish I had got his number. The man was a star! Bloody horses! Dont get me wrong I am not anti police by any means,I just question the methods sometimes.
		
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Aah yes, but the Countryside March protesters have a lot more respect for authority than those yobs; indeed, that copper probably wasn't needed at all! Plus there have still been no cleaner march or rally than those; we took our litter home or binned it.  Bet they'd prefer our marches to some they have to police!


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## Double_choc_lab (26 November 2010)

my-princess-pony said:



			I'm not suprised in the slightest that this officer abused her horse ( and will no doubt get away with it) they do it to humans often enough......
Dont forget that police are above the law and don't have to abide by rules like the rest of us.
		
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I'm afraid I'm going to be a bit personal here.  With a name like yours I assume you are 8 yrs old and wear Barbie pink.  I can assure you're views will change as you mature and see a lot more of life and perhaps need the assistance of the police at some time.  If  not I hope to God you never get attacked, assaulted or anyone that you know for that matter.  If you are older then I can only wonder what has happened to evoke such a ridiculous outburst I can only assume you have had close contact with the arm of the law probably doing something you shouldn't.

Thank you doonrocket for such an informative report.


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## DragonSlayer (26 November 2010)

Double_choc_lab said:



			I'm afraid I'm going to be a bit personal here.  With a name like yours I assume you are 8 yrs old and wear Barbie pink.  I can assure you're views will change as you mature and see a lot more of life and perhaps need the assistance of the police at some time.  If  not I hope to God you never get attacked, assaulted or anyone that you know for that matter.  If you are older then I can only wonder what has happened to evoke such a ridiculous outburst I can only assume you have had close contact with the arm of the law probably doing something you shouldn't.

Thank you doonrocket for such an informative report.
		
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Amen!


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## MagicMelon (26 November 2010)

To me, it looks like he does hit the horse with his baton which IMO is out of order.  I've read some of the posts on here (no, I'm not about to read the full 30 whatever pages) and am (as usual) shocked by some of your responses saying you would quite happily smack your horse in this sort of situation.  The horse is scared, smacking it does NOT help.  So many people seem to beat their horses into submission forgetting that they aren't machines. To get called a "bunny-hugger" just because some of us don't agree with smacking horses is utterly ridiculous.  But then again... I guess we are on a pro-hunting magazines forum so its only inevitable...


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## DragonSlayer (26 November 2010)

MagicMelon said:



			To me, it looks like he does hit the horse with his baton which IMO is out of order.  I've read some of the posts on here (no, I'm not about to read the full 30 whatever pages) and am (as usual) shocked by some of your responses saying you would quite happily smack your horse in this sort of situation.  The horse is scared, smacking it does NOT help.  So many people seem to beat their horses into submission forgetting that they aren't machines. To get called a "bunny-hugger" just because some of us don't agree with smacking horses is utterly ridiculous.  But then again... I guess we are on a pro-hunting magazines forum so its only inevitable...
		
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..then I do think you need to go read the whole lot. There are actually posts from ex-mounted officers who explain WHY they do what they do. THEN come back with a better judgement of what you think. It is NOT a case of beating the horse into submission, the situation was volatile and highly dangerous, it wasn't your average hack in the park on a nice sunny day, oops, watch out for that ball that child just threw....


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## Unbeliever (26 November 2010)

mymare said:



			Ok didn't see this sorry.  So where does it say it's illegal to whip a horse?  Do you have a link that proves this?  What you have quoted above says nothing of the sort.  "A whip or a stick should be used as an additional aid.." which is exactly what it was being used for in the clip.  Doesn't say anything about it being illegal to use a whip in Scotland..
		
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Doh! 
Here's a straw, clutch it.


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## Fairynuff (26 November 2010)

Y:A:W:N:.....will someone put the kettle on, please?


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## EAST KENT (26 November 2010)

You lot still at it?? Police horse was disobedient..got a well deserved reminder to do its bloody job..end off.

   Bunny huggers stick to your "pretty ponies " ..no doubt wearing tinsel browbands at the moment,pink numnahs and matching bandages..urrgghhh!


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## Kenzo (26 November 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			You lot still at it?? Police horse was disobedient..got a well deserved reminder to do its bloody job..end off.

   Bunny huggers stick to your "pretty ponies " ..no doubt wearing tinsel browbands at the moment,pink numnahs and matching bandages..urrgghhh!

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lol

It's always nice to end with our humour in tact!


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## Golf Girl (26 November 2010)

MagicMelon said:
			
		


			To me, it looks like he does hit the horse with his baton which IMO is out of order. I've read some of the posts on here (no, I'm not about to read the full 30 whatever pages) and am (as usual) shocked by some of your responses saying you would quite happily smack your horse in this sort of situation. The horse is scared, smacking it does NOT help. So many people seem to beat their horses into submission forgetting that they aren't machines. To get called a "bunny-hugger" just because some of us don't agree with smacking horses is utterly ridiculous. But then again... I guess we are on a pro-hunting magazines forum so its only inevitable...
		
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DragonSlayer said:



			..then I do think you need to go read the whole lot. There are actually posts from ex-mounted officers who explain WHY they do what they do. THEN come back with a better judgement of what you think. It is NOT a case of beating the horse into submission, the situation was volatile and highly dangerous, it wasn't your average hack in the park on a nice sunny day, oops, watch out for that ball that child just threw....
		
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Erm, at the risk of making myself the target of the condescenders and 'name-callers' I'd just like to add that I HAVE read all of the comments on this thread and I concur with ALL that MagicMelon says in his/her post.


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## MochaDun (26 November 2010)

doonrocket said:



			Cards on the table Mike.

I was a serial sgt in the police line directly behind the horses in the BBC clip we discussed. I have 15 years experience of disorder and working with police horses. Trust me, they are invaluable at holding cordons and getting to places vehicles can't and officers would take to long to. Yes they have their limitations, but without them yesterday there would have been mayhem. If you felt like I did when I crashed on the sofa last night after a hard day you would understand.

I take it from your previous answer that your opinion does not come from a position of experience.
		
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I totally agree with that - I was there trying to do my lunchtime shopping (must have been the only person that set off out the office not knowing the demonstrations were taking place last Weds!) and have to say the 4-5 police horses that I saw were the only thing keeping the column of students going up and down Park Street fairly ordered and also the horses presence at the top of Park Street and the area in front of the Wills Building meant there were open pieces of road as people give the horses space so I too think they are invaluable in such situations and I have to say it made me feel safer last Weds.


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## firm (26 November 2010)

Okay GG and MM - you are out for hack on a public bridleway. You meet something that scares your horse, he hits reverse/spins at speed. Behind you walking up the track is a mother with toddler , young child and two dogs on leads. You have 20 secs - do you pat your horse? or jump off and risk him pulling away from you knocking everybody down & getting loose on the road or hit him with your stick to back up your legs and send him forward boldly?


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## nativetyponies (26 November 2010)

MagicMelon said:



			To me, it looks like he does hit the horse with his baton which IMO is out of order.  I've read some of the posts on here (no, I'm not about to read the full 30 whatever pages) and am (as usual) shocked by some of your responses saying you would quite happily smack your horse in this sort of situation.  The horse is scared, smacking it does NOT help.  So many people seem to beat their horses into submission forgetting that they aren't machines. To get called a "bunny-hugger" just because some of us don't agree with smacking horses is utterly ridiculous.  But then again... I guess we are on a pro-hunting magazines forum so its only inevitable...
		
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sorry??

then maybe you should bugger off to a non pro hunting magazines forum.??


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## sykokat (26 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			sorry??

then maybe you should bugger off to a non pro hunting magazines forum.??
		
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I agree with this. Just because we may give our horses a smack when it is needed does not mean we beat them into submission!! What a stupid thing to say magicmelon. If you don't like the pro hunting feel in here then maybe you should leave. It is after all the 'Horse and Hound' forum.


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## Golf Girl (26 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			then maybe you should bugger off to a non pro hunting magazines forum.??
		
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What breathtaking bloody arrogance!


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## Serenity087 (26 November 2010)

He doesn't look like he's hitting the horse.  If you can hit a horse by swinging a baton like that, then Polo is now officially the cruellest sport in the world........

As for the "bunny huggers".  Bugger off.  My horse has been hit, smacked and whipped... and she's the best behaved horse I know.  The horses that have no respect for humans or other horses are the ones owned by people who won't give the things a smack!

I know this, because my sister decided to use a non-aggressive approach on her 15.3hh pba colt.  I got fed up with his behaviour, and behind her back taught him some manners.  She was so impressed with the transformation that a stick is kept outside his stable at all times.

And as for HORSE AND HOUND being pro hunting... NO **** SHERLOCK!

Gods, you bunny huggers are smart...


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## sykokat (26 November 2010)

Golf girl- I think saying that we are being ignorant is completely unfounded and a totally unnecessary comment to make. Just because some of us actually know what we are doing does not make us ignorant. It is the people who just 'think' they do that cause all these problems.


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## nativetyponies (26 November 2010)

Golf Girl said:



			What breathtaking bloody arrogance!
		
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no, its called observation.


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## Munchkin (26 November 2010)

Golf Girl said:



			What breathtaking bloody arrogance!
		
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Interesting observation from someone who only logs on to this forum to be arrogant.




			Aah yes, but the Countryside March protesters have a lot more respect for authority than those yobs; indeed, that copper probably wasn't needed at all! Plus there have still been no cleaner march or rally than those; we took our litter home or binned it. Bet they'd prefer our marches to some they have to police!
		
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Yes, I was on the CA march and the only trouble was caused by the LACS/Sabs/RSPCA types... or collectively 'chavs.'


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## stencilface (26 November 2010)

Ok so haven't read all replies..... 

But hitting a horse to make it go forwards, when it has ignored a leg aid (regardless of situation) if perfectly reasonable - that it backing up an aid, something that the majority of horses in the UK will have had happen to them.  Thats if he did hit the horse of course 

Beating a horse is completely different.

Police horses are fantastic, they are sometimes the only reasonable being present, I have seen them at football matches make thousands of yobs retreat to the stand just by walking sideways persistently at them.  People, thugs whatever, in the main respect them.  When they are the animals in a situation, and yet behave better than a crowd full of supposed 'higher animals' speaks volumes imho.

And it is a little arrogant to assume everyone on here likes hunting. Horse and Hound is a reasonably dated title, the majority of people on here discuss hacking, and competing, not hunting


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## Serenity087 (26 November 2010)

But it's also a little silly to presume we're all bunny huggers!

Your Horse, I believe is the magazine for that.  Horse and Hound, hunting aside, has always been a realists (except, perhaps, in terms of horse prices...) magazine!


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## Golf Girl (26 November 2010)

cougar said:



			Golf girl- I think saying that we are being ignorant is completely unfounded and a totally unnecessary comment to make. Just because some of us actually know what we are doing does not make us ignorant. It is the people who just 'think' they do that cause all these problems.
		
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Erm, I did not say that you or anyone else was 'ignorant' - I said that nativeponies' comment was arrogant! Ignorant and arrogant do not mean the same thing!


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## Mike007 (26 November 2010)

nativeponies said:



			i can afford to be arrogant golfie...believe me..not a lot of people can say that, can they?


i back up EVERYTHING I SAY 100%
		
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Arrogance ,definition: offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.


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## Cinnamontoast (26 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			More of a sad disillusion of their effectiveness.
		
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Really? As a civilian, you really ought to be a little more sensible about this. Every officer I've spoken to believes that the horse is worth maybe 10 times more in terms of effectiveness. How many do you speak to regularly? You've already made your feelings about police officers very plain.



doonrocket said:



			Cards on the table Mike.

I was a serial sgt in the police line directly behind the horses in the BBC clip we discussed. I have 15 years experience of disorder and working with police horses. Trust me, they are invaluable at holding cordons and getting to places vehicles can't and officers would take to long to. 

I take it from your previous answer that your opinion does not come from a position of experience.
		
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Quite and to be brutally honest, I would rather it was the horse, not the officer. I value human life above equine. Ooh, bad me! If a horse gets in the firing line and saves my OH form serious injury, then I won't apologise for being an advocate of using them in dangerous situations.


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## Golf Girl (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Arrogance ,definition: *offensive display of superiority or self-importance*

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That's the one! The word 'narcissistic' also springs to mind .....


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

cinammontoast said:



			Really? As a civilian, you really ought to be a little more sensible about this. Every officer I've spoken to believes that the horse is worth maybe 10 times more in terms of effectiveness. How many do you speak to regularly? You've already made your feelings about police officers very plain.



Quite and to be brutally honest, I would rather it was the horse, not the officer. I value human life above equine. Ooh, bad me! If a horse gets in the firing line and saves my OH form serious injury, then I won't apologise for being an advocate of using them in dangerous situations.
		
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The horses should not have been there. They were haphazardly situated (not even in a rank) betwean a police cordon and the crowd. Hardly surprising at least one spooked . Even a police horse is at heart,a herd animal . A horse s advantage is to move quickly and cover a lot of ground,sticking them there in a sandwich was basicly daft.


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## Brontie (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			The horses should not have been there. They were haphazardly situated (not even in a rank) betwean a police cordon and the crowd. Hardly surprising at least one spooked . Even a police horse is at heart,a herd animal . A horse s advantage is to move quickly and cover a lot of ground,sticking them there in a sandwich was basicly daft.
		
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How would you have used them then?.. At the end of the day, they played a huge part throughout the day, and as a officer said. They were invaluable.


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## eahotson (27 November 2010)

Harper_Gal said:



			He doesn't look like he's hitting the horse.  If you can hit a horse by swinging a baton like that, then Polo is now officially the cruellest sport in the world........

As for the "bunny huggers".  Bugger off.  My horse has been hit, smacked and whipped... and she's the best behaved horse I know.  The horses that have no respect for humans or other horses are the ones owned by people who won't give the things a smack!

I know this, because my sister decided to use a non-aggressive approach on her 15.3hh pba colt.  I got fed up with his behaviour, and behind her back taught him some manners.  She was so impressed with the transformation that a stick is kept outside his stable at all times.

And as for HORSE AND HOUND being pro hunting... NO **** SHERLOCK!

Gods, you bunny huggers are smart...
		
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Just off to whip, beat and smack my horse to prove I am not a bunny hugger.What colour stick should I keep outside the stable door? Perhaps I should ask PapaFrita.My Your Horse mags will make a nice bonfire on this cold day.


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## Serenity087 (27 November 2010)

eahotson said:



			Just off to whip, beat and smack my horse to prove I am not a bunny hugger.What colour stick should I keep outside the stable door? Perhaps I should ask PapaFrita.My Your Horse mags will make a nice bonfire on this cold day.
		
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Re-reading my post, it's badly worded.  Sister's colt suffers bad stable manners, hence why the stick is outside his stable.

Mine is also only smacked when she's bad.  Not as an every day "I feel like beating my horse" sort of thing.

But 500kg of wild, uncontrollable animal is downright dangerous.  Weighing up smacking the things, or having children (which, it should be remembered, these protestors are!) trampled... No choice.


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## fburton (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			I still think the question is whether the horses should have been there in the first place. Without them , a firework yeah ,so what.!They serve no usefull purpose and create problems.
		
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I have long wished fireworks were not sold to the general public. They are frequently misused causing untold upset to pets, horses and their owners, not to mention the odd injury and disfigurement, and downright abuse as in this case. I do like a good firework display myself, but the best ones by far are those organized for the public, well-financed, and limited to well-defined dates and venues.


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## HollyWoozle (27 November 2010)

I have read every reply and the news reports linked to on here. 

Firstly, I am a student and the people throwing fireworks are certainly not representative of us all! 

Secondly, I do not personally approve of hunting and am still, I hope, a valid member of this community. 

Thirdly, and most importantly, I am a horse owner and lover who feels strongly about animal welfare... and I support the police officer's decision to move his horse forward with the use of the baton. I found the video quite shocking on the first viewing but mostly due to the throwing of fireworks! Yes, the horse was afraid, but it needed to go forward for the safety of all the people on the ground, the rider and itself. The baton did move it forwards and achieved it's purpose and the horse does not seem to be any the worse for it.

I have given my horse a smack with a stick to move her out of the way of oncoming traffic before. There was no lasting damage... she still trusts me and we're both alive rather than having been flattened by a lorry.


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## SirenaXVI (27 November 2010)

I have not read all the post but seriously?  You call that a beating?  These police horses are highly trained and to have one disobey in the situation that officer was in could be catastrophic, all I saw were 2/3 smacks, through an exercise sheet at that!

If your horse was to spook into an oncoming lorry, would you just sit there and pat him?  I suspect that those that would do that would very quickly get both themselves and their horse squished!


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## fburton (27 November 2010)

A very reasonable response, Hollywoozle.


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## MagicMelon (27 November 2010)

firm - I certainly wouldn't smack my horse. Perhaps your horse responds to that treatment. My horse is pretty sharp when it comes to that, if he was scared enough to spin round etc. then that LAST thing I'd do is smack him! That would guarantee to get him even MORE hyped up and upset about the situation. Some horses don't take being pelted with a whip nicely... those that do "accept" it so easily have likely got used to it happening frequently.

With regards to the other comments - I do believe this forum is open to everyone, pro or anti.  I do not frequent the hunting board for the very reason that I do not wish to discuss hunting.  

Harper_Gal - Your poor horse is all I can say.  Wow, can't believe you are so proud to admit you have "hit, smacked and whipped" your horse.  Do you believe this is the ONLY way to get a horse to be well behaved?  I can say that I've generally had very well behaved horses who I have never had to smack into doing anything!


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## firm (27 November 2010)

MM I have a horse here just like yours   but I have learnt over the years he woud be the exception rather than the rule IMHO to most horses.    Horses all are different personalities, some you could hit for the first time & they would not flinch and some like our boys would turn themselves inside out.  Just watch a herd of horses interacting and you will see those who jump out the way at an ear flick and those who need bitten hard to shift them.


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## Scrumpyjack3 (27 November 2010)

andraste said:



			Reassuring scared horses makes them worse - it confirms to them that there was something worthy of being scared of in the first place.  You need to be firm so that they take confidence from you.  Pretty much what the policeman was doing.
		
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But a horse needs to encouraged by a strong and calm rider not hit the horse as it will make the horse  think that the thing it is scared of is the thing that caused the pain, the next time an idiot throws a firework at that horse it will react worse because of the way that the rider reacted due to panicked.


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## Munchkin (27 November 2010)

Scrumpyjack3 said:



			But a horse needs to encouraged by a strong and calm rider not hit the horse as it will make the horse  think that the thing it is scared of is the thing that caused the pain, the next time an idiot throws a firework at that horse it will react worse because of the way that the rider reacted due to panicked.

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What a load of tripe.


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## sykokat (27 November 2010)

Munchkin said:



			What a load of tripe.
		
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Ditto Munchkin


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## Tankey (27 November 2010)

Blimey, all this fuss...I dont remember the same drama when Miz_Elz or whatever she was called back then beat her horse and left welts on it for not going past a gate....must be the bunny brigade


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## JanetGeorge (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			A horse s advantage is to move quickly and cover a lot of ground,sticking them there in a sandwich was basicly daft.
		
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Can't agree - having seen police horses used in front of a line of officers on more than one occasion!  MOST people are somewhat intimidated by even a single large horse - whereas a police officer on foot is just a person!  MOST demo crowds will hold back faced with even 2-3 police horses.  

The other advantage is that the officers on horseback have a vantage point that the officers on foot don't have.  They can see where pockets of trouble-makers are gathering - and see what they're doing - and warn other officers accordingly.




			But 500kg of wild, uncontrollable animal is downright dangerous. Weighing up smacking the things, or having children (which, it should be remembered, these protestors are!) trampled... No choice.
		
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Agreed - although in that instance it was more likely to be the police officers who would have been trampled.

I can't believe people are STILL going on about the poor little horsie getting a smack.

Police horses are trained to these situations - and they are disciplined if they 'forget' their training in moments of stress.  They HAVE to be obedient and under control at all times, otherwise they endanger the public, other police officers and their riders.  The PC just didn't have TIME to sit there soothing and stroking that horse - it HAD to be sent on sharpish!

Police horses generally have a pretty good life.  They are well trained, well-fed, and well cared for.  They generally stay fit for work MUCH longer than most horses - which says something - and they enjoy a GOOD retirement or are PTS properly when age/soundness means they cannot carry out their duties.  An occasional smack to ensure they DO keep minds on job is a very small price to pay!


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## vanessa97 (27 November 2010)

I am essentially sympathetic towards the students, for their demonstration. However, throwing fireworks at poor animals is despicable and by behaving like this, people will soon become unsympathetic towards them and their yobbish behaviour. The police officer was trying to make his horse go forwards,  a police horse that runs away and is out of control, is no good, and he couldn't let it get away with it or it could kill someone.


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## The Virgin Dubble (27 November 2010)

Tankey said:



			Blimey, all this fuss...I dont remember the same drama when Miz_Elz or whatever she was called back then beat her horse and left welts on it for not going past a gate....must be the bunny brigade 

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You are kidding! There was uproar! 

It was a fantastic thread.


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## Tankey (27 November 2010)

dubble said:



			You are kidding! There was uproar! 

It was a fantastic thread.  

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Was it deleted or archived?
I cant remember what it was called now


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## Zebedee (27 November 2010)

Tankey said:



			Was it deleted or archived?
I cant remember what it was called now 

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Weren't people upset that not only had she hit the horse she wasn't actually carrying a whip so she'd picked a sycamore switch from the hedge?


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## Tankey (27 November 2010)

zebedee said:



			Weren't people upset that not only had she hit the horse she wasn't actually carrying a whip so she'd picked a sycamore switch from the hedge?
		
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Oooh I wonder which is worse...a nice big truncheon or a sycamore whip


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

JanetGeorge said:



			Can't agree - having seen police horses used in front of a line of officers on more than one occasion!  MOST people are somewhat intimidated by even a single large horse - whereas a police officer on foot is just a person!  MOST demo crowds will hold back faced with even 2-3 police horses.  

The other advantage is that the officers on horseback have a vantage point that the officers on foot don't have.  They can see where pockets of trouble-makers are gathering - and see what they're doing - and warn other officers accordingly.



Yes these are valid points but once you have lost the intimidation factor and ride at a packed crowd, you are in big trouble. If the crowd cannot move back you create a crush situation and turn your protestors (protesting is legal) into a riot as people who would not normaly turn to violence,try to defend themselves. The first result is that a lot of people get badly hurt. The next result is that the horses get stopped in their tracks,isolated and then the riders get attacked by a now angry mob. A lone rider ,stationary ,even with his big batton is no match for a crowd. If you dont believe me ,look at the old footage of the Grosvenor Square riot! It seems that so many of the hard lessons of 1968 have been forgoten. The Met dont seem to have forgoten though. At the CA protest the Mounted officers were kept back away from the cordon ,in a tight rank ready to move forward as a concerted body . Had they been used they would have moved slowly as a  rank using every ounce of their intimidtion factor .Compare that with this video and you will see why I think the horses shouldnt have been there.
		
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## Golf Girl (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:





JanetGeorge said:



			Can't agree - having seen police horses used in front of a line of officers on more than one occasion!  MOST people are somewhat intimidated by even a single large horse - whereas a police officer on foot is just a person!  MOST demo crowds will hold back faced with even 2-3 police horses.  

The other advantage is that the officers on horseback have a vantage point that the officers on foot don't have.  They can see where pockets of trouble-makers are gathering - and see what they're doing - and warn other officers accordingly.
		
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Yes these are valid points but once you have lost the intimidation factor and ride at a packed crowd, you are in big trouble. If the crowd cannot move back you create a crush situation and turn your protestors (protesting is legal) into a riot as people who would not normaly turn to violence,try to defend themselves. The first result is that a lot of people get badly hurt. The next result is that the horses get stopped in their tracks,isolated and then the riders get attacked by a now angry mob. A lone rider ,stationary ,even with his big batton is no match for a crowd. If you dont believe me ,look at the old footage of the Grosvenor Square riot! It seems that so many of the hard lessons of 1968 have been forgoten. The Met dont seem to have forgoten though. At the CA protest the Mounted officers were kept back away from the cordon ,in a tight rank ready to move forward as a concerted body . Had they been used they would have moved slowly as a  rank using every ounce of their intimidtion factor .Compare that with this video and you will see why I think the horses shouldnt have been there.
		
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I absolutely agree with you Mike. Let's hope that lessons are learned from this incident.


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## JanetGeorge (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			The Met dont seem to have forgoten though. At the CA protest the Mounted officers were kept back away from the cordon ,in a tight rank ready to move forward as a concerted body . Had they been used they would have moved slowly as a  rank using every ounce of their intimidtion factor .Compare that with this video and you will see why I think the horses shouldnt have been there.
		
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Actually, there were parts of the CA protest where they DID try to use police horses.  A couple of them had their girths undone and I think one was unbridled!  It was silly to use police horses against hunting people as there was NO intimidation factor at all!

The main problem with the policing of THIS protest was that the police under-estimated the trouble there was likely to be.  There weren't enough police horses at the trouble spots!


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## tallyho! (27 November 2010)

Is this still raging on??

They showed the horse on Points West. He's fiiiiine. I'm sure they won't make that mistake again seeing as this thread was top in H&H this week....


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

JanetGeorge said:



			Actually, there were parts of the CA protest where they DID try to use police horses.  A couple of them had their girths undone and I think one was unbridled!  It was silly to use police horses against hunting people as there was NO intimidation factor at all!

The main problem with the policing of THIS protest was that the police under-estimated the trouble there was likely to be.  There weren't enough police horses at the trouble spots!
		
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AAAH,JanetGeorge ,you have just explained a mystery to me!. I have been concerned about a perceived  over reaction by a certain officer concerning a lad who patted his horse, and had his arm broken. Possibly the officer thought he was going to slip the bridle off. Explains a lot ,and yes those battons are lethal.


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## mymare (27 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			Doh! 
Here's a straw, clutch it.
		
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You said it was illegal to whip a horse in Scotland, which, quite frankly, is a load of b****cks.  I asked you to provide evidence and you couldn't.   If you can't back up your airy fairy farty comments then I suggest you keep schtum.


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Oh B****r,mike dives into trench clutching his tin hat!


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## mymare (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Oh B****r,mike dives into trench clutching his tin hat!
		
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PMSL!!  Sorry Mike!


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## Unbeliever (27 November 2010)

mymare said:



			You said it was illegal to whip a horse in Scotland, which, quite frankly, is a load of b****cks.  I asked you to provide evidence and you couldn't.   If you can't back up your airy fairy farty comments then I suggest you keep schtum.
		
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I said it was an offence to whip horses as a punishment.

I listed the Act. I quoted the guidance to the Act (which you edited in your response. That you don't choose to believe it and can't be a**ed to look it up is your problem, not mine. If you can't make a civil response then I suggest it is you who should keep schtum.

However, for the hard of understanding, the Act is The Animal Welfare (Scotland) Act *as I previously advised*. The guidance note is Code of Practice for the Welfare od Equidae, and the unedited paragraph (58, just to help you along) states:

_It is an *offence* to cause an animal unnecessary suffering; therefore, any discipline should be
appropriate, timely, reasonable and proportionate. A whip or a stick should *only* be used as
an additional aid, *not as a means of punishment*. Similarly any restraint method used to assist
normal management or treatment of the animal should be the most mild and effective
method available and should be applied by a competent person only for the minimum
period necessary. Sedatives must only be used under veterinary advice. Roundpens and
small electrified fenced areas should not be used to discipline animals and are not suitable
for keeping them in for long periods of time._

So if you feel like calling me a liar again, can I suggest you check your facts. And I would also suggest you stop beating your horses. It is now an offence.

Of course I could have made all this up. Maybe you should check it out.


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## mymare (27 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			When TF did I beat my horse????  My 31 year old horse was pts in the summer!!!!!!!!  And I've been heartbroken ever since, I'd had her for 28 years thanks very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   What a nasty thing to say!!

For your information I did NOT edit anything in your quote!
		
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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Mike pokes head over trench, This is law ,the key words are should and must. They are very different. Should does not imply an imperative whereas "must " does.So no, it is not illegal to whip a horse as punnishment , whereas to use sedatives other than under veterinary guidance is.Mike dives back into trench and starts digging.


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## mymare (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Mike pokes head over trench, This is law ,the key words are should and must. They are very different. Should does not imply an imperative whereas "must " does.So no, it is not illegal to whip a horse as punnishment , whereas to use sedatives other than under veterinary guidance is.Mike dives back into trench and starts digging.
		
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Thanks Mike.


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## Unbeliever (27 November 2010)

mymare said:



			"A whip or a stick should be used as an additional aid.." .
		
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Think you forgot the _*only*_ didn't you? Kinda changes the emphasis somewhat.

Sorry about your horse, but your apparent defense of the pactice and implying I was lying seemed to point in that direction. Apologies for any offense.

And Mike, semantics. The guidance is there to inform how the Act should be interpreted.


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## brighteyes (27 November 2010)

I can't believe they underestimated the interest the protest would generate!  And that there would be people in amongst the genuine ranks of peaceful protesters who were there simply to cause trouble.  

I'm seeing daily the results of giving too much voice and power to people who really don't know how to manage it - silly them for also not guessing that their purely unantagonistic intentions would be disrupted by riot-pro's such as turn up to football matches abroad with just the same idea to cause mindless trouble...

And whichever methods are chosen to control crowds, I trust the mounted police to manage their horse utterly professionally.  The firework thrower wants scaring half to death like the horse who needed to be persuaded to overcome his natural fear and then punished for following _his_ instincts.  T055er, quite literally.


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			Think you forgot the _*only*_ didn't you? Kinda changes the emphasis somewhat.

Sorry about your horse, but your apparent defense of the pactice and implying I was lying seemed to point in that direction. Apologies for any offense.

And Mike, semantics. The guidance is there to inform how the Act should be interpreted.
		
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Law and acts have been my bread and butter for a long time but thanks for your input.It is not semantics, law is what is written nothing else.That is how it works.Mike returns to trench....


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## Unbeliever (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Law and acts have been my bread and butter for a long time but thanks for your input.It is not semantics, law is what is written nothing else.That is how it works.Mike returns to trench....
		
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Feels a legal discussion coming on


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			Feels a legal discussion coming on

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OOOH interested, Mike pokes head over trench just in time to get a snipers bullet from unbeliever.


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## Unbeliever (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			OOOH interested, Mike pokes head over trench just in time to get a snipers bullet from unbeliever.

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Not from me. Think we're in the same trench


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			Not from me. Think we're in the same trench

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Got any fags?


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## brucea (27 November 2010)

Always amazes me when people who weren't there, are only leisure rather than professional riders, go off on a foot stamping tantrum of righteous indignation

These are working horses, that is their job, backing into a line of officers is not on,  a good sharp smack on the but was maybe necessary to bring him back "into his head" and focussed on the job in hand - as much for his own safety as others.

I would have absolutely done the same with my own horse when he was into spin around and run away mode in that crowded situation.

I have absolutely no time for these people who cry abuse every time a horse is smacked - and don't see that sometimes it is necessary.

Should smack the a***hole who threw the firework at the horse - let's see a thread on identifying and punishing him. A year mucking out at an RDA school in just his underpants would do it.

P.S> I love my guys to biits, and almost never smack them, but there are times when a good sharp reprimand is for the good of the horse and safety of the rider.


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## Unbeliever (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Got any fags?
		
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'fraid not, but I might have the last of my rations.


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Brucea Are you American by chance? only you seemto have arrived a bit late....again.


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## Spudlet (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Oh B****r,mike dives into trench clutching his tin hat!
		
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Budge over in there! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Although, with people misquoting legislation round here, I may not stay in the trench long...


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## brucea (27 November 2010)

No Mike - not American, Scottish, maybe that's worse

Today I have...

Taken my son to TaeKwonDo practice
Gone to the feed shop
Shovelled snow
Changed a wheel on the truck
Cooked lunch
Fed all four boys
Cleaned a couple of stables
Ridden two of the boys
Taken my daughter out for a long hack in the woods in the snow with her 3 year old
Shovelled more snow
Gone to Tesco
Cooked prawn & egg & chilli stir fried rice for tea
Made soup for tomorrow
Made a batch of bread
Got kids off to bed

And now having 10 -20 minuites for meself!!!

And this thread, with lots of pratiness caught my eye!!


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## PeterPansWendy (27 November 2010)

lastphoenix said:



http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11829989&h=1cedc

The video speaks for itself, watch the poor horse get a beating for spooking at a blimmin firework. I was disgusted with the Avon and Somerset Constabulary and have made a complaint
		
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If that's a beating i'm father christmas and you my dear are are living in never land, get a grip!!


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Get in here and get your head down you daft bint!


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Oh B****r its started up again!


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## Unbeliever (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Oh B****r its started up again!
		
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Oh come on. You're enjoying this


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			Oh come on. You're enjoying this 

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Yup, got any AB biscuits left?


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## Serenity087 (27 November 2010)

MagicMelon said:



			Harper_Gal - Your poor horse is all I can say.  Wow, can't believe you are so proud to admit you have "hit, smacked and whipped" your horse.  Do you believe this is the ONLY way to get a horse to be well behaved?  I can say that I've generally had very well behaved horses who I have never had to smack into doing anything!
		
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Get over yourself!

This is the same horse who hid behind me so I'd protect her from the scary dentist lady (A forum user, if you don't believe me!).  She's not headshy, she's not afraid of me, and you pity her?

You pity the fact that everyone wants to bring her in from the field because her manners are so nice?

You pity the fact that children and teenagers with no horsey experience love playing with Dorey, because she is so patient and tolerant?

You pity the fact that she stands and waits for her food rather than barging and kicking her door?

**** it, ruin your own horse and pity mine if you like, but mine is loved by everyone who meets her and everyone compliments her manners!!!!!!  She's come a long way from the dangerously bargey mare with no respect for personal space!


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## Unbeliever (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Yup, got any AB biscuits left?
		
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Hard b*****ds?, no,just ran out. Only beans left and the're going fast.


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			Hard b*****ds?, no,just ran out. Only beans left and the're going fast.
		
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Its looking a bit grim,


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## Unbeliever (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Its looking a bit grim,
		
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Hadn't you heard it's grim up North?


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

Unbeliever said:



			Hadn't you heard it's grim up North?
		
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stfu and pass those beans over.


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## brucea (27 November 2010)

They'll just make you fart.


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## Unbeliever (27 November 2010)

Mike007 said:



			stfu and pass those beans over.
		
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LOL, and have as much as you like


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## Mike007 (27 November 2010)

brucea said:



			They'll just make you fart.
		
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Oh the sweaty socks has joined us in our cosy little trench, budge over spudlet


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