# Find a horse for a 18stone + rider



## flump (20 September 2012)

Im off sick so have been searching old posts etc, this isnt meant to start a war or drag up old news but I am genuinely interested being overweight and loosing weight to improve my riding.

The Game is to find a suitable horse for 18 stone + rider.

Meant to be  interesting not b1tchy ok guys!

I will report back in a while as Im going to the gym 

Here is my selections 


http://www.horsemart.co.uk/all_rounder_horse_6_yrs_16_2_hh_blue_white_north_y/advert/243285


----------



## Shysmum (20 September 2012)

GRABS POPCORN........


----------



## TuscanBunnyGirl (20 September 2012)

I don't know if I'd want 18stone on my back...


----------



## Tizzy (20 September 2012)

Interesting thread?

In all honesty, I think this weight is an awful lot for any horse to carry. Clydesdales are also not the best weight carriers, they are more a work horse - bred for pulling and tugging, not carrying. Yes they can tollerate more than most normal horses but would you not consider losing a few stone first and then looking?

This isnt a bitchy post at all, more concern for both yourself and the horse.


----------



## DGeventing (20 September 2012)

Even the local heavy horse place here has the weight limit capped below this, because whilst  horse - including the one linked to - may be capable of carrying 250lbs once, the cumulative toll will give the horse a far shorter, less comfortable working life.

If I was that weight I would spend the next 6months to a year saving up to purchase the horse whilst trying to lose some more weight.There are ways you could incorporate horses; riding a mechanical horse, helping with mucking out and barn activities, lunging and long reining. That way you still get to spend time with horses, and since (here anyway) big heavy horses can cost a bomb you can save up to buy an amazing horse.


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

its not meant to be a 'popcorn post' nor a post where a 5 stone on an 18hh thinks they are to bad or 30stone on a shetland thinks they are overhorsed. play nicely guys


----------



## TrasaM (20 September 2012)

MrsB advised OP to lose weight and she's going for it! Well done!  I recently tried to find a trekking centre or RS that would take a 17st youth and drew a blank.


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

tizzy- sorry its not for me, i am overweight but not 18 stone and looking for a horse  i have 3! it was a post in general


----------



## Daytona (20 September 2012)

I don't think there is a horse that "should" not could carry that weight.  Too heavy I think. 

I'm sure they could but I doubt it would be nice for them.


----------



## Littlelegs (20 September 2012)

Sorry op, I wouldn't put 18 stone on that horse myself, let alone as an owner/ rider. Wouldn't it be easier for the 18 stone rider to find their local weight watchers? Or, afraid its a case of waiting for an old-fashioned hw hunter to come on the market.


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

i have been loosing weight for a while, i was 16 at my heaviest and went up and down for a while, im now 14 and losing. but anyway this isnt about my weight 

Dont think mine would allow 18stone on their backs


----------



## Wagtail (20 September 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			Im off sick so have been searching old posts etc, this isnt meant to start a war or drag up old news but I am genuinely interested being overweight and loosing weight to improve my riding.

The Game is to find a suitable horse for 18 stone + rider.

Meant to be  interesting not b1tchy ok guys!

I will report back in a while as Im going to the gym 

Here is my selections 


http://www.horsemart.co.uk/all_rounder_horse_6_yrs_16_2_hh_blue_white_north_y/advert/243285

Click to expand...

You would put 18 stone plus on a 16.2 six year old that wouldn't have finished maturing yet?

I have yet to come across a horse that I would be happy to put more than 16 stone on.


----------



## Archiepoo (20 September 2012)

i have a friend whos an excellent rider and she rides a 16.2hh IDXTB she must be 18st if not more but she rides very well and quite lightly so would think she doesnt ride like a huge bag of spuds, BUT it is still an awful lot for a horse to carry. i have a 16.2hh and wont allow more than 11 stone on him!!  overall i think the fitter and lighter any rider is its bound to be better for the horse.


----------



## TrasaM (20 September 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			tizzy- sorry its not for me, i am overweight but not 18 stone and looking for a horse  i have 3! it was a post in general
		
Click to expand...

Lol..I know . You don't  look anywhere near that from your pics. I was commending you on going to the gym. I'll need it myself soon as I've been laid off with broken collarbone and with unrestricted grazing and no exercise the inevitable has happened. I'm avoiding the scales as I'm a coward.


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Sorry op, I wouldn't put 18 stone on that horse myself, let alone as an owner/ rider. Wouldn't it be easier for the 18 stone rider to find their local weight watchers? Or, afraid its a case of waiting for an old-fashioned hw hunter to come on the market.
		
Click to expand...

Its all just to see what peoples opinions are..i dont know 18 stone horse shoppers atm


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

TrasaM said:



			Lol..I know . You don't  look anywhere near that from your pics. I was commending you on going to the gym. I'll need it myself soon as I've been laid off with broken collarbone and with unrestricted grazing and no exercise the inevitable has happened. I'm avoiding the scales as I'm a coward. 

Click to expand...

Lol im on the bike now haha! But ache! I have a little gym in my house now, weights, kettleball, ab pro, ab cruncher, bike and x trainer!! cheaper than gym and can multi task!

Tho im ill and feel **** so may stop for a cuppa in ten!


----------



## Jingleballs (20 September 2012)

I wouldn't ask any horse to carry an 18+ stone rider.


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

Wagtail said:



			You would put 18 stone plus on a 16.2 six year old that wouldn't have finished maturing yet?

I have yet to come across a horse that I would be happy to put more than 16 stone on.
		
Click to expand...

Just an opinion wagtail, i just wanted to c what others think


----------



## Wagtail (20 September 2012)

There is another user on here, diet2ride and she is around 23 stone. She rides a 16hh cob. It is interesting to watch the videos of her riding and see the difference in her horse's way of going.


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

think my horse is going better now im losing some but have some to go, i was losing weight then had some crap and piled it back on again, but one day soon i'll be at my goal weight! 

He is def going better whether its the weight loss, improved fitness or other i dont know.


----------



## Django Pony (20 September 2012)

Here's my find: http://www.horsemart.co.uk/all_rounder_horse_6_yrs_16_3_hh_bay_south_yorkshir/advert/246222

BUT, I would hope it is for an 18 stone rider that was losing weight! I think that amount of weight would do damage to _any _horse over the long term.


----------



## PandorasJar (20 September 2012)

Wagtail said:



			You would put 18 stone plus on a 16.2 six year old that wouldn't have finished maturing yet?

I have yet to come across a horse that I would be happy to put more than 16 stone on.
		
Click to expand...

+1 not one I'd put a hevy rider on.


----------



## Littlelegs (20 September 2012)

Where on earth does this myth of 'riding light' come from? Everytime this subject comes up we hear of these riders whose weight magically lessens once mounted. Sorry, that just isn't how it works. It's just if you ride badly, you feel heavier than you are.


----------



## Jellybean50 (20 September 2012)

How shocked am i to read some of these posts..  I am a big rider and standing at 6ft tall i would never weigh less than 16stone if i was a size 10 (which i am not). I do agree the horse pictured does look a little weak in the back, but we haven't seen a picture of you to comment on the suitability.   My current horse is a 17.2hh WB x Shire, we have competed BE finishing 7th in our first outing, he has 15BD points in 7 outings and has qualified for the trail blazers final twice..  Do these results show a horse who is unhappy and unable to carry me, we are currently training elementary at home with a trainer.  Just because you are big does not mean you are a heavy rider, some people i see who are lighter than me ride heavier.  People should not be judged on how heavy they are.  Sorry for the rant but when matching horse and rider there are numerous factors to take into account.  The right horse is out there keep looking and dont get disheartened - GOOD LUCK!!


----------



## DGeventing (20 September 2012)

My closest finds would be
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1799725
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1810851
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1821360
Though I'd be happier with a 16st rider on them than 18st!


----------



## Crugeran Celt (20 September 2012)

I am sure there are people out there who are 18st or more who are not overweight just big people and I am sure some of them ride. There will be horses out there capable of carrying that sort of weight just need to find one.


----------



## Littlelegs (20 September 2012)

Wouldn't put 18stone on lizzy doodles find either.


----------



## Foxtrot Filly (20 September 2012)

Personally I would look at Ardennais or Suffolk Punch slightly shorter backed than clysdale/ID type so stronger on that front and a correctly fitting saddle with wide flat pannels would be very improtant to distribute weight as best as possible.

I know an 18+ stone rider who rides a suffolk punch and horse has no problems (lameness/back) and is a happy chap and forward with rider on! as correctly fitted saddle and they are not galloping around for hours or doing stressful work.

Other option is to learn to drive as horses can pull more than they can carry!


----------



## unicorndreams (20 September 2012)

20% of horse weight is usually considered a guide for what it can carry safely but it also depends on overall rider ability, musculature of horse, its bone and width of loins.
A 650kg horse 'could' carry 20st based on that rough guide. My friend's 15hh heavy cob weighs 600-650kg!


----------



## MerrySherryRider (20 September 2012)

Buy a horse and break it to drive but don't ride it.


----------



## Cortez (20 September 2012)

I'd be willing to bet that there are THOUSANDS of riders well over 16st riding quite small Quarter Horses in the US with no problems. Horses of suitable build can carry far more weight happily than many people think.


----------



## Archangel (20 September 2012)

This would be my pick
http://www.horsemart.co.uk/all_rounder_horse_9_yrs_2_mths_16_3_hh_palomino_li/advert/245245 Looks like a darling.  

With the riding light thing, I think it is less heavy rather than lighter if you know what I mean.  A good rider of say 12 stone will feel like 12 stone because err they are 12 stone.  But a novice rider will feel more than 12 stone because they are not balancing themselves properly.  I think that is what I am trying to say 

ETS it doesn't matter what weight you are standing on a horse is ridiculous (imo)


----------



## meesha (20 September 2012)

Surely there are so many factors to consider not just rider weight ! for instance if the horse is very fit, kept fit (maybe by a lighter rider if need be) then the heavier rider rides occasionally (ie not everyday) then that has to be a totally diff situation to someone buying what seems to be a weight carrying horse that is actually very unfit and poss overweight itself (so already carrying extra) and then has to have a heavyweight on them while unfit.  

Again not sure but I would have thought schooling would put more strain on the horse than say hacking !

What I am trying to say is you need to look at the whole picture and consider:-
rider weight
horse age
amount of bone
horse fitness
horses weight
whether the horse can be kept fit or will be expected to carry alot after a month off

Just to say ....... I am "healthy eating" at the moment and I am sure my horse is grateful for carrying nearly a stone less than before - I feel better for not lugging it around so he must too !


----------



## Mince Pie (20 September 2012)

A highland (deer) pony


----------



## posie_honey (20 September 2012)

you see many 16stone patrons on 15hh polo ponies that carry them for 15min chucker without any trouble
however they are fit as a fiddle (ponies i mean )

and i think that's a BIG issue - many horses could carry much more weigh than they do if they were simply properly fit for it - but most horses are not fit and also carry too much fat themselves giving the impression of a stocky horse who is actually just over weight.

i'd put 18 stone on a fit HW hunter (i'm taking hunting horse - not show hunter) - i'd not put 18 stone on the same horse if it was only hacking ridden twice a week in walk with the odd trot/canter - to me that's bearly above field fit


----------



## posie_honey (20 September 2012)

Broke_But_Happy said:



			A highland (deer) pony 

Click to expand...

i nearly said garron too but they generally carry more like 12-16 stone


----------



## tallyho! (20 September 2012)

I wouldn't put 18st on any horse personally...

Throughout history, horses HAD to carry 18st + in daily life. This then only meant that they lived to about 10 or 12 which is why we still consider these horses as "old" although I'm glad to see this myth is being busted!

If an 18st rider were riding all day everyday, yes, I would be concerned but how many times on average does your leisure rider ride a week? At that weight I can't imagine riding is comfortable for more than a couple of hours at the most, a few times a week. ETA - sorry I rethought this, and I guess only if a rider were "overweight" there are fit men riders who could be that weight but ride comfortably all day... so many variables.....

I think those horses could probably manage that given some proper conditioning/preparatory work was done to strengthen him/her for the task.

Soldiers can carry 40kg in combat and that is what our boys are carrying out there today. That's a third of their weight if not half. 

A FIT horse (a FAT horse cannot carry this weight) can carry up to 15% of it's own weight comfortably. This is roughly the weight ratio of foal:mother.


----------



## Leah3horses (20 September 2012)

The posts 'no horse should carry 18 plus stone' amaze me..sheer ignorance.How much do you think the likes of Nick Skelton / Geoff Billington plus all tack weigh? Must be in the region of 16 stone, AND they are showjumping on warmbloods!  It's impossible to generalise to that extent on horses..good bone, massive shoulders, strong back and big back end, and of course in peak fitness, is the stamp of a proper weight carrier..I'm nowhere near 18 stone but not 8 stone either..my Clydesdale cross could easily carry 18 stone out hunting all day, I assure you. My old Clyde x ID often did! The blue and white Clyde x cob is not the best weight carrier going by the pic..a shorter, stockier and shorter backed (but not too short backed) heavy type with 10 inch plus bone would be up to the job though.My Clyde cross now is a Clyde x Appie, but a good stamp of mainly Clyde, just a different colour and 15.3hh..even some warmbloods, such as Oldenburgs, big hefty horses with huge bone..remember the heavy types were originally war horses and jousters, an adult man with a set of armour on, a very heavy saddle and weapons would have weighed very heavy! A true heavyweight isn't easy to find but they are out there..Clyde or Shire x TB are not capable of being true heavyweights though, the TB dilutes the bone and strength. Check out Belgian Drafts or Ardennes , anybody who doubts a horse can happily carry 18 stone plus!


----------



## Elsiecat (20 September 2012)

I think with the right work then plenty of horses could carry 18 stone. I wouldn't put 18stone on my TB, purely because she isn't fit enough. I regularly let people up to 14st on her. She doesn't bat an eyelid. If she did I'd be pulling them right back off again!


----------



## Tinsel Trouble (20 September 2012)

I know a couple of guys who are both about 6'10'' and weigh a little over 18st, they are two of the best riders I have ever seen- great long legs to wrap around the horses and they have a natural strength without getting strong. They normally stick to the 17.2hh+ horses as they take up their legs much better, but I have put one on my previous 16.1hh ISH during the 'terrible teens' and we had no problems.


----------



## Cortez (20 September 2012)

I have a Spanish PRE horse who regularly carries 18st + in jousts, and he's a hair over 15.2hh and not a traditionally "heavy" sort either. It's a myth that jousting horses were draft types, BTW; they actually averaged about 14.2hh (but people were a lot shorter too).


----------



## WelshD (20 September 2012)

I am the wrong side of 20 stone. I'd love a horse now but think that I would need to be more like 16 stone 

I am sure there are heavy riders that do very well. I saw a large lady riding a cob very beautifully at a recent show but a more average ability rider would be more of a hinderance than a help for a horse I think so for now it remains just a dream for me

I have recently bought two ponies though and they are helping me get more active as I look after them and work with the older one from the ground


----------



## Cortez (20 September 2012)

Good for you, and what a great motivator to shift the weight.


----------



## Leah3horses (20 September 2012)

RebelRebel said:



			This would be my pick
http://www.horsemart.co.uk/all_rounder_horse_9_yrs_2_mths_16_3_hh_palomino_li/advert/245245 Looks like a darling.  

With the riding light thing, I think it is less heavy rather than lighter if you know what I mean.  A good rider of say 12 stone will feel like 12 stone because err they are 12 stone.  But a novice rider will feel more than 12 stone because they are not balancing themselves properly.  I think that is what I am trying to say 

ETS it doesn't matter what weight you are standing on a horse is ridiculous (imo)
		
Click to expand...

Now that's a horse! For sure, he would carry more than 18 stone, and anybody who thinks otherwise really hasn't any experience of true heavies. Truly scrumptious, I want!


----------



## true dragon (20 September 2012)

has anyone seen Full Metal Jousting on the History channel?

http://www.history.co.uk/shows/full-metal-jousting.html

these are all massive muscular blokes wearing full metal armour, horses in full metal armour carrying great big heavy lances.  they must weigh well over 20 stone.  the horses are all draught types, but carry them swifty and easily. 

its a fab program! anyone who has sky watch it.  your on the edge of your seat at the end when they have the joust off!


----------



## Littlelegs (20 September 2012)

Just because it was done in the past, or because we can doesn't make it right.


----------



## TrasaM (20 September 2012)

Leah3horses said:



			Now that's a horse! For sure, he would carry more than 18 stone, and anybody who thinks otherwise really hasn't any experience of true heavies. Truly scrumptious, I want!
		
Click to expand...

They are the tanks of the equine world lol. Saw one recently at a show. It had a HUGE head..well it had huge everything. Prefer the Breton draft but can't find any for sale here st the moment.


----------



## Leah3horses (20 September 2012)

Cortez said:



			I have a Spanish PRE horse who regularly carries 18st + in jousts, and he's a hair over 15.2hh and not a traditionally "heavy" sort either. It's a myth that jousting horses were draft types, BTW; they actually averaged about 14.2hh (but people were a lot shorter too).
		
Click to expand...

I was also thinking how some Spanish horses are very well made and capable of being true weight carriers. Didn't say draft horses were originally jousting horses.. I said 'heavies', meaning heavily built ..I didn't mention height, as tall horses are a relatively modern concept,courtesy of mankind interfering, oops I meant breeding


----------



## Kat (20 September 2012)

Where is FDC? this thread needs a picture of her Fany!


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

Leah3horses said:



			The posts 'no horse should carry 18 plus stone' amaze me..sheer ignorance.How much do you think the likes of Nick Skelton / Geoff Billington plus all tack weigh? Must be in the region of 16 stone, AND they are showjumping on warmbloods!
		
Click to expand...

That's what I always think. Even WFP must weigh a bit. He may be as wide as a rake but he's tall and carrying muscle so hardly likely to be a light weight.


----------



## tallyho! (20 September 2012)

Ha ha!!! I honestly think if GB, WFP reading this thinking we all think they are 18st would be laughing!!!

My rugby player hubby isn't even 18st at 6ft!!!!


----------



## marmalade76 (20 September 2012)

Leah3horses said:



			The posts 'no horse should carry 18 plus stone' amaze me..sheer ignorance.How much do you think the likes of Nick Skelton / Geoff Billington plus all tack weigh? Must be in the region of 16 stone, AND they are showjumping on warmbloods!




			I think there is a considerable difference between someone who weighs 18st because they are tall/big framed/muscular and someone who is 18st because they are considerably overweight (at 5', I would be _considerably_ overwieght if I was 18st!) and I think any considerably overweight person should make an effort to lose weight before taking up riding.

Many factors need to be taken into account when finding a horse for the heavier rider, age, build, conformation, fitness and how much and what type of work the horse would be expected to do whilst carrying a heavier rider. Another _very_ important thing when a horse is expected to carry a lot of weight is the saddle. It must fit perfectly and be plenty big enough for the rider.
		
Click to expand...



Click to expand...


----------



## Tinsel Trouble (20 September 2012)

Kat said:



			Where is FDC? this thread needs a picture of her Fany!
		
Click to expand...

Not again...!


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

Gracious. I didn't mean to imply WFP is 18stone!! Just that someone has already said 'no more than 11 for my 16.2' on this thread and I bet he weighs more than that!! 

What about this chap for weight carrying? He's called Trevor if that helps


----------



## WelshD (20 September 2012)

There are other things to consider too which may restrict the choice of horse for a rider

Without wanting to start a debate but being relatively familiar with the problems of being overweight (lol) my fitness isnt too bad and I am not lazy BUT I am not very flexible and would probably hurt myself quite badly if I was to fall off and standing to mount on a gate etc.. in the absence of a mounting block could be hazardous not to mention embarassing so I wouldnt consider a very tall horse as an option so heavy horses would be out as far as I am concerned

I would rather get down to a more reasonable weight, be a generally more effective rider for my average riding abilities and have a 15hh heavyweight cob personally 

A heavy type horse isnt the only option, another option is losing weight!


----------



## meesha (20 September 2012)

Have I strayed into a new section of the forum - fany pictures !!!!!!! hehehehe


----------



## 111ex111 (20 September 2012)

"no horse should carry 18st"

what about an 18.2hh shire horse?
someone at my yard has one- doubt she's 18 stone but he could easily carry that....


----------



## Foxtrot Filly (20 September 2012)

jesstickle said:



			Gracious. I didn't mean to imply WFP is 18stone!! Just that someone has already said 'no more than 11 for my 16.2' on this thread and I bet he weighs more than that!! 

What about this chap for weight carrying? He's called Trevor if that helps 






Click to expand...


I LOVE Trevor he looks awesome and great name!


----------



## meesha (20 September 2012)

right thats it I am calling RSPCA .....  not for having 2 peeps on one horse but for calling the poor chap trevor !!! he looks mortified (and gorgeous)


----------



## Foxtrot Filly (20 September 2012)

meesha said:



			right thats it I am calling RSPCA .....  not for having 2 peeps on one horse but for calling the poor chap trevor !!! he looks mortified (and gorgeous)
		
Click to expand...


It's a good job his cheeks are already red then lol or he'd be blushing 

He has the look of (crazy horse women) (my horse also has this look a lot too!)


----------



## tallyho! (20 September 2012)

I know!!! TREVOR!!!! Bless the poor beast....


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

meesha said:



			right thats it I am calling RSPCA .....  not for having 2 peeps on one horse but for calling the poor chap trevor !!! he looks mortified (and gorgeous)
		
Click to expand...

Alas, he isn't mine. He was one of the horses at work. And now (weirdly) he lives at the RS I learnt at as a child. He is gorgeous. And huge 

And yes, the plonker on the back is me


----------



## meesha (20 September 2012)

love him... does he even know you are up there ! and more importantly - is the ladder in the background what you used to get up there in the first place ?


----------



## nixxyz (20 September 2012)

jesstickle said:



			That's what I always think. Even WFP must weigh a bit. He may be as wide as a rake but he's tall and carrying muscle so hardly likely to be a light weight.
		
Click to expand...

According to the all knowing google lol WFP is just over 12.5 stone, so i think he looks lighter than he really is. I know of one girl localish to myself who has a clydesdale and she must be at least 20 stone, horse doesnt look very happy to be honest and seriously lacks topline. So i completely agree that not all draft types are weight carriers.


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

No, I don't think he really knew I was there. He used to bog off with me occasionally when I rode him. I thought I had more pictures of him but there appear to not be on my facebook sadly. I do at home though. He was a lovely chap


----------



## 111ex111 (20 September 2012)

would never put someone over 11 stone on this, they would be waaaay too heavy!!


----------



## brucea (20 September 2012)

Actually I'm a 16st bloke and I ride 14.2 cob up to 16.3 heavy ISH.

Depends how you ride.


----------



## hayinamanger (20 September 2012)

Jellybean50 said:



			How shocked am i to read some of these posts..  I am a big rider and standing at 6ft tall i would never weigh less than 16stone if i was a size 10 (which i am not). I do agree the horse pictured does look a little weak in the back, but we haven't seen a picture of you to comment on the suitability.   My current horse is a 17.2hh WB x Shire, we have competed BE finishing 7th in our first outing, he has 15BD points in 7 outings and has qualified for the trail blazers final twice..  Do these results show a horse who is unhappy and unable to carry me, we are currently training elementary at home with a trainer.  Just because you are big does not mean you are a heavy rider, some people i see who are lighter than me ride heavier.  People should not be judged on how heavy they are.  Sorry for the rant but when matching horse and rider there are numerous factors to take into account.  The right horse is out there keep looking and dont get disheartened - GOOD LUCK!!
		
Click to expand...

JB50  Please would you post a picture of your horse?  I would be most interested to see him as I have a WB x Shire foal.  Thank you

Sorry to hijack, OP.  In response to your post, I am qualified to say, having once weighed something approaching 18 stone  that riding at that weight is no pleasure for the rider or the horse.  I had not ridden for 5 years (too busy piling on the poundage) and OH, new to riding, wanted to buy a 16.3 ISH, he had ridden the horse, but I wanted to make sure it was suitable for him.  The horse was in a hunting yard, we went on a 5 mile circular route, mostly at a spanking trot, she carried me without any apparent difficulty.  When we got back to the yard, I couldn't get off, my legs were like jelly and I had to be assisted off.  Very embarrassing!  I could hardly walk for weeks  We bought the horse and I am pleased to say that I am now 6 stone lighter than those days.


----------



## Foxtrot Filly (20 September 2012)

No deff not he is pretty light weight really  very handsome tho


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

jesstickle said:



			That's what I always think. Even WFP must weigh a bit. He may be as wide as a rake but he's tall and carrying muscle so hardly likely to be a light weight.
		
Click to expand...

He's only about 12 stone!  

For a tall, fit, heavier rider I think this fella is lovely
http://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/HorseDetail.asp?HorseID=30205&UserID=12211


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

rhino said:



			He's only about 12 stone!  

Click to expand...

I know,I know! I just meant for all the people who (constantly on HHO) say 'no more than 11 stone ever on my horse'. As IF they wouldn't let WFP on their nag because he'd be too heavy. He's like a bean pole and _still _ weighs 12 stone!

My point was really that most men weigh more than 11 stone. Even my OH and he's a perfectly normal chap. A bloke wouldn't have to be massively fat to weigh 16 stone I wouldn't have thought??

Basically, I'm letting one of my rants from other threads spill into this one which is about genuinely heavy riders. I just can't bear to see all the threads that say 10/11 stone is as much as a horse can carry!!

ETS: what a cracking horse. I want him even though I'd look like a pea on a drum!


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

jesstickle said:



			ETS: what a cracking horse. I want him even though I'd look like a pea on a drum!
		
Click to expand...

Have you watched the videos? I want to buy him and pretend he's a haflinger and that I'm really, really tiny


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

Typical hho doesn't stick to the game!!


----------



## Wagtail (20 September 2012)

unicorndreams said:



			20% of horse weight is usually considered a guide for what it can carry safely but it also depends on overall rider ability, musculature of horse, its bone and width of loins.
A 650kg horse 'could' carry 20st based on that rough guide. My friend's 15hh heavy cob weighs 600-650kg!
		
Click to expand...

That is overweight even for a HW cob! I would say that he is carrying at least 80kg excess.

The flaw with the 20% rule is that it is intended to apply to horses that are 'ideal' and healthy/fit weights. Many leisure horses are not. If you apply the 20% rule you are saying that the fatter a horse gets, the more weight it can carry, which is rubbish. A horse that is say 80 kg overweight is already carrying the weight of a substantial person.


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

rhino said:



			Have you watched the videos? I want to buy him and pretend he's a haflinger and that I'm really, really tiny 

Click to expand...

You are really, really tiny  

Love the one of him jumping. What a legend of a horse!


----------



## Kat (20 September 2012)

Jellybean50 said:



			How shocked am i to read some of these posts..  I am a big rider and standing at 6ft tall i would never weigh less than 16stone if i was a size 10 (which i am not).
		
Click to expand...

Rubbish! I am not one of these "people over 12st shouldn't ride types" but if you are 16st and 6ft you are clinically overweight. A person of 6ft can healthily weight significantly less than 16st. My husband is 6ft2" and weighs significantly less than 16st, but he could also stand to lose some weight. He rides our shared horse who isn't a "weight carrying type" but he wouldn't be riding her if he weighed 16st. WFP is about 6ft4" and weighs about 12 and a half stone.


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

The 20% weight study was an extremely limited investigation with a tiny, statistically insignificant cohort, and looking solely at _immediate_ negative effects - heart and breathing rate and muscle soreness (though that was a purely subjective exercise).

I think the long term impact is the important thing, and AFAIK there are no studies at all which show that _any_ certain percentage of a horse's weight is 'safe'.

It has to come down to individual opinion, but I really hate it when that 20% figure is bandied about with no understanding of how limited and subjective the research  was


----------



## Shysmum (20 September 2012)

still munching my popcorn here


----------



## Tinsel Trouble (20 September 2012)

shysmum said:



			still munching my popcorn here 

Click to expand...

pass some over....




I love watching sprightly 20 stone riders on 14hh show arabs using draw reins.


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

Kat said:



			Rubbish! I am not one of these "people over 12st shouldn't ride types" but if you are 16st and 6ft you are clinically overweight. A person of 6ft can healthily weight significantly less than 16st. My husband is 6ft2" and weighs significantly less than 16st, but he could also stand to lose some weight. He rides our shared horse who isn't a "weight carrying type" but he wouldn't be riding her if he weighed 16st. WFP is about 6ft4" and weighs about 12 and a half stone.
		
Click to expand...

You would need to be over 7 foot to have a healthy BMI at 18 stone


----------



## teasle (20 September 2012)

With all the popccorn eaten on here ALL our horses will be groaning under our weight!


----------



## Wagtail (20 September 2012)

I agree that there is a huge difference between a tall fit 18 stone man and a shorter 18 stone woman. Being overweight for your height causes all kinds of balance problems when riding.

I also agree with Littlelegs when she says that the 'riding light' thing is a load of rubbish. If you are eighteen stone, you feel like 18 stone. Nothing will make you feel lighter. However, you can feel a hell of a lot heavier by poor or unbalanced riding.

OP I commented on your cc thread. That last pic where your horse was going really well for you, you looked like you had lost a fair amount of weight and your whole position was better. When you were really overweight in some of the earlier pics, you looked more slumped and unbalanced in the saddle. Of course it may have been the angle of the final pic that made you look slimmer, I don't know. But I applaud you for doing something about it and acknowledging that your riding seems to have improved after you lost weight.


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

Bmi is rubbish!!! For a 5'6 average female what would you say they should weigh?


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

Thankyou wagtail, I am still losing and the horses are going better for it! I didn't want to open a can of worms on this thread but was meant to be to see what others thought etc. I do not think that riding light is a factor as you can say bla bla bla but you still way x amount...


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

If I weighed 15 stone And wfp weighed 15 stone we would still be 15 stone on a horses back. I do however think wfp would feel like a different 15 stone to me!


----------



## Wagtail (20 September 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			Bmi is rubbish!!! For a 5'6 average female what would you say they should weigh?
		
Click to expand...

Depending on frame you would be a healthy weight if you were between 8 1/2 and 11 1/2 stone at 5'6.


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			Bmi is rubbish!!! For a 5'6 average female what would you say they should weigh?
		
Click to expand...

BMI is a very useful _population tool_, as it was designed to be. People seem not to understand what it is and why it is used.

What would 'I' say they should weigh? I couldn't care less. 

BMI healthy weight at 5'6" would be anywhere between 8 1/2 stone and 11 stone ish I would think.


----------



## Polotash (20 September 2012)

One of my liveries weighs 16 stone on a good day and she has a 15.1 MW cob for light hacking. She rides in a very balanced way and I would have no hesitation in letting her ride my horses. It's about how you ride, not how much you weigh IMO (and I'm 8 1/2 stone so unbiased!).

You may be interested to know that polo ponies are classed as "lightweight" and "heavyweight" in terms of what they can carry. My 15.2 Agentine TB mare is classed as heavyweight. That means she's shown (there are a few polo pony classes inc at Royal Windsor) as being able to carry 14 stone plus.

If you look at the majority of low and medium goal polo players (i.e. excluding the tiny argy guys) they'll be around the 14 stone mark, some a lot more!

As other people have said, WFP is a bean pole and he's 12 stone. Geoff Billington and some other show jumpers I can think of are pretty hefty, and their horses manage to jump huuuuge fences!


----------



## AntxGeorgiax (20 September 2012)

although i do not agree with putting 18 stone on a horse, can i just remind all of you that there are many men who weigh 18/19/20 stone who go out hunting. i have said many many times, if you go along in unison with your horse they will not feel hindered by all of your weight. yes, 18 stone or anything above 15/16 is pushing the boundaries, but i beleive if the horse has a correct build of of muscle across their back to cope with that weight, the rider rides very light and they dont go jumping courses or galloping, whats to say they cant go for a plod along a country lane?


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

My goal weight at 5'6 is 10 stone and I bet my boy will go like a dream when I get there ))) 

I'm on the treadmill pretending I'm going round badders lol :')


----------



## AntxGeorgiax (20 September 2012)

Kat said:



			Rubbish! I am not one of these "people over 12st shouldn't ride types" but if you are 16st and 6ft you are clinically overweight. A person of 6ft can healthily weight significantly less than 16st. My husband is 6ft2" and weighs significantly less than 16st, but he could also stand to lose some weight. He rides our shared horse who isn't a "weight carrying type" but he wouldn't be riding her if he weighed 16st. WFP is about 6ft4" and weighs about 12 and a half stone.
		
Click to expand...


sorry, i keep seeing WFP popping up everywhere, can someone explain what it means?


----------



## Wagtail (20 September 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			My goal weight at 5'6 is 10 stone and I bet my boy will go like a dream when I get there ))) 

I'm on the treadmill pretending I'm going round badders lol :')
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Tinsel Trouble (20 September 2012)

AntxGeorgiax said:



			sorry, i keep seeing WFP popping up everywhere, can someone explain what it means?
		
Click to expand...

William Fox-Pitt also now known as Beanstick.


----------



## Wagtail (20 September 2012)

AntxGeorgiax said:



			sorry, i keep seeing WFP popping up everywhere, can someone explain what it means?
		
Click to expand...

William Fox-Pitt


----------



## LouiseG (20 September 2012)

There is a girl at my last yard who has a 17.2hh dutch warmblood, she must be about 5ft6 and she probably weighs 16 - 18 stone easily. Her horse is never sound and if it's not one thing, it's another, she's had it since it was 3 and it's now 12. Cant imagine that weight on it's back for all those years is good for the horse, it has to do some damage! I have a little 15.2 ISH who has plenty of bone, he was on box rest and over that time I put on at least half a stone and even now at just under 11 stone I am starting to feel that he doesn't appreciate the extra weight on his back, he's only 5 and that is a motivation to lose some weight!


----------



## Tizzy (20 September 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			tizzy- sorry its not for me, i am overweight but not 18 stone and looking for a horse  i have 3! it was a post in general
		
Click to expand...

Oh i see! I do apologise in that case then.

But whoever it is at 18+ stone, I do think its a bit much.


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			My goal weight at 5'6 is 10 stone and I bet my boy will go like a dream when I get there ))) 

I'm on the treadmill pretending I'm going round badders lol :')
		
Click to expand...

 You're heading in the right direction anyway! Just keep reassessing your own health and fitness, BMI is good for looking at populations, but not necessarily individuals within that population. I doubt I'll ever be a 'healthy' BMI but am fit and healthy


----------



## mil1212 (20 September 2012)

For anyone who is interested, the olympic site is great for giving details of all the athletes, I spent a while checking if I was lighter than any of our equestrians!

http://www.london2012.com/athletes/

(not that any of the equestrians are 18 stone, but I bet some of the other athletes are)


----------



## unicorndreams (20 September 2012)

Wagtail said:



			That is overweight even for a HW cob! I would say that he is carrying at least 80kg excess.

The flaw with the 20% rule is that it is intended to apply to horses that are 'ideal' and healthy/fit weights. Many leisure horses are not. If you apply the 20% rule you are saying that the fatter a horse gets, the more weight it can carry, which is rubbish. A horse that is say 80 kg overweight is already carrying the weight of a substantial person. 

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree that the horse needs to be fit and healthy - as does the rider  There are many other factors that I mentioned that make the 20% rule a generalisation.
Incidentally, the 15hh cob at 600kg - that may sound like he's 80kg overweight however you can just see the outline of his ribs so losing 80kgs might not be right for him - he's a very heavy boned lad! (always used to be my excuse when people asked how much I weighed lol)


----------



## abbijay (20 September 2012)

I have a horse who "can" carry this kind of weight. 





Combined weight of hubby and I fully dressed is somewhere between 20-21st depending on when this was taken. I would not do more than walk around to get some pictures though as we could feel him using the muscles in his back to take the weight. I once had a munchkin of 15st ride him and do quite a bit of damage so size does not equate to weight carrying ability. 
Clydies (and many shires) have notoriously poor conformation as weight carriers, they're pullers! This is the closest I have to a confirmation pick.


----------



## JGC (20 September 2012)

mil1212 said:



			For anyone who is interested, the olympic site is great for giving details of all the athletes, I spent a while checking if I was lighter than any of our equestrians!

http://www.london2012.com/athletes/

(not that any of the equestrians are 18 stone, but I bet some of the other athletes are)
		
Click to expand...

Well, according to this, Carl is 12 stone 7. Definitely wouldn't let him on my horse in that case


----------



## AdorableAlice (20 September 2012)

Here is your horse Beans, 16h, short coupled, Clyde x RID, weighs in at 780kg, forward going, kind, won't get round Badminton other than at a trot.  Very comfortable, would hunt easily in a slow country, jumps small fences and all you need to do if it's too big is wait for another horse to smash it down a bit !, cheap to keep apart from the clipper blades.  She is for sale, but I would want a lot of money for her.  She is a rare combination of safe, forward and show quality (she is heading for maxi cob classes)

With the tack I ride at around 161/2 stone, yes I am dieting and that is not me on the photo. They are out there but take some finding, look for short cannons and lots of quality flat bone and don't be fooled into thinking you need 18h plus, a lot of very tall horses won't have the bone.






http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p512/Banksgreen1/1stSept12278
.jpg


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

mil1212 said:



			For anyone who is interested, the olympic site is great for giving details of all the athletes, I spent a while checking if I was lighter than any of our equestrians!

http://www.london2012.com/athletes/

(not that any of the equestrians are 18 stone, but I bet some of the other athletes are)
		
Click to expand...

Well, it's definitely normal for some of the rowers to be 16 stone and if anyone thinks they aren't fit and healthy they're an idiot! So definitely not out of the realms of possibility for a healthy (tall) man to weigh 16 stone. Haven't found anyone at 18 stone yet but I'll keep looking 

Really interesting to nose through everyone's weights though


----------



## Tinsel Trouble (20 September 2012)

AdorableAlice said:



			Here is your horse Beans, 16h, short coupled, Clyde x RID, weighs in at 780kg, forward going, kind, won't get round Badminton other than at a trot.  Very comfortable, would hunt easily in a slow country, jumps small fences and all you need to do if it's too big is wait for another horse to smash it down a bit !, cheap to keep apart from the clipper blades.  She is for sale, but I would want a lot of money for her.  She is a rare combination of safe, forward and show quality (she is heading for maxi cob classes)

With the tack I ride at around 161/2 stone, yes I am dieting and that is not me on the photo. They are out there but take some finding, look for short cannons and lots of quality flat bone and don't be fooled into thinking you need 18h plus, a lot of very tall horses won't have the bone.
		
Click to expand...

You have not just 
a) advertised your horse for sale
b) put a pic up of it in draw reins...

*head in hands- peeping between fingers


I would start errecting a bombshelter....i fear i may need more than just popcorn...!


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

jesstickle said:



			Haven't found anyone at 18 stone yet but I'll keep looking 

Click to expand...

Ricardo Blas
http://www.nodeju.com/25296/biggest-athlete-at-the-olympics-video.html


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

She is lush but too much horse for me for sure...plus I'm not looking!!


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

rhino said:



			Ricardo Blas
http://www.nodeju.com/25296/biggest-athlete-at-the-olympics-video.html



Click to expand...

Hmm, I was sort of looking for chaps who filled my 'heavy but healthy and athletic ' box. Whilst he is an athlete by definition I'm not sure I'd want him on BH!! 

ETS: he is defnitely more than 18 stone. And I love that he is 'just there for the BBQ'


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

jesstickle said:



			Hmm, I was sort of looking for chaps who filled my 'heavy but healthy and athletic ' box. Whilst he is an athlete by definition I'm not sure I'd want him on BH!! 

Click to expand...

He's only 34-and-a-bit stone though  Sure BH would be fine!


----------



## AdorableAlice (20 September 2012)

Tinsel Trouble said:



			You have not just 
a) advertised your horse for sale
b) put a pic up of it in draw reins...

*head in hands- peeping between fingers


I would start errecting a bombshelter....i fear i may need more than just popcorn...!
		
Click to expand...

Very broad shoulders so not worried, remember I ride overweight, use draw reins, a twitch, smack them if they are naughty, would sell my granny if enough money was on the table, swop my husband if a richer model came along and could find a picture without a crash hat on......it's an age thing !


----------



## lara b (20 September 2012)

Cortez said:



			I'd be willing to bet that there are THOUSANDS of riders well over 16st riding quite small Quarter Horses in the US with no problems. Horses of suitable build can carry far more weight happily than many people think.
		
Click to expand...

was just about to say this!


----------



## AdorableAlice (20 September 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			She is lush but too much horse for me for sure...plus I'm not looking!!
		
Click to expand...

Thank you, I am thrilled with her, bought her very recently to get my confidence back, it's a bonus she may be good enough to show.

I have struggled with weight most of my life and there are plenty of horses I couldn't ride, but it is perfectly acceptable to ride overweight with the right horse that is fit and the right stamp.


----------



## AdorableAlice (20 September 2012)

jesstickle said:



			Hmm, I was sort of looking for chaps who filled my 'heavy but healthy and athletic ' box. Whilst he is an athlete by definition I'm not sure I'd want him on BH!! 

ETS: he is defnitely more than 18 stone. And I love that he is 'just there for the BBQ' 

Click to expand...

And.....I am not swopping my husband for him or selling him my horse.  I don't think any of us could find him a horse.


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

AdorableAlice said:



			And.....I am not selling him my horse.
		
Click to expand...

If you did, perhaps it would end up _on_ the BBQ!


----------



## putasocinit (20 September 2012)

unicorndreams your friends horse for 15hh cob is overweight so consider the excess weight it is carrying with the additional weight of the rider!!!!


----------



## Rose Folly (20 September 2012)

Between the Wars my father used to breed specialist heavyweight hunters for the American market. They were 3/4 or sometimes 7/8 Suffok Punch to 1/4 or 1/8 TB (I know this would be very politically incorrect nowadays as the Suffolk Punch breed is in such a fragile state). He reckoned the only other true heavyweight (i.e. FOR heavyweight) horses were Normadny Cobs and Percherons. His crossbreds were beautiful horses - and very expensive - they were very short-coupled.  Don't know if anybody breeds anything like this nowadays?


----------



## Wagtail (20 September 2012)

AdorableAlice said:



			Here is your horse Beans, 16h, short coupled, Clyde x RID, weighs in at 780kg, forward going, kind, won't get round Badminton other than at a trot.  Very comfortable, would hunt easily in a slow country, jumps small fences and all you need to do if it's too big is wait for another horse to smash it down a bit !, cheap to keep apart from the clipper blades.  She is for sale, but I would want a lot of money for her.  She is a rare combination of safe, forward and show quality (she is heading for maxi cob classes)

With the tack I ride at around 161/2 stone, yes I am dieting and that is not me on the photo. They are out there but take some finding, look for short cannons and lots of quality flat bone and don't be fooled into thinking you need 18h plus, a lot of very tall horses won't have the bone.







http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p512/Banksgreen1/1stSept12278
.jpg
		
Click to expand...

I do like this horse and yes, she has plenty of bone, but that back looks quite hollow and weak around the loins to me. A common problem with the heavy sorts. I would not like to see more than 15 stone on that mare. I had a very similar, but bigger 17.2 full up ID gelding. He had a similar back confo and really struggled when an 18 stone rider got on him.


----------



## Tinseltoes (20 September 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Sorry op, I wouldn't put 18 stone on that horse myself, let alone as an owner/ rider. Wouldn't it be easier for the 18 stone rider to find their local weight watchers? Or, afraid its a case of waiting for an old-fashioned hw hunter to come on the market.
		
Click to expand...

Nice horse. I wouldnt sell a horse to someone of that weight,sorry but the poor horse!!!!!!
I rest my case


----------



## jodie3 (20 September 2012)

Rose Folly said:



			Between the Wars my father used to breed specialist heavyweight hunters for the American market. They were 3/4 or sometimes 7/8 Suffok Punch to 1/4 or 1/8 TB (I know this would be very politically incorrect nowadays as the Suffolk Punch breed is in such a fragile state). He reckoned the only other true heavyweight (i.e. FOR heavyweight) horses were Normadny Cobs and Percherons. His crossbreds were beautiful horses - and very expensive - they were very short-coupled.  Don't know if anybody breeds anything like this nowadays?
		
Click to expand...

How interesting - I know there is no set formula for breeding a show-type cob but I have always thought that a Suffolk Punch crossed with a TB would give you something rather nice.  Don't suppose you have any pictures of anything he bred?

I had an Ardennes cross and my physio said that the draft horses are bred more for pulling than carrying great weights.

If you are 18 stone plus because you are obese rather than Amazonian in build riding is never going to be enjoyable for you or your horse as you are just too big!!  That is probably not politically correct to say these days but I watched an overweight friend who was desperate to ride and because of her weight and size she struggled to get on and off the horse, was uncomfortable in the saddle as it was just too small for her and really found it difficult to balance on the horse because of her size.  She tried a couple of times and was very embarrassed by the RS.  The only good thing was it spurred her on to do something about her weight and ended up having a gastric band fitted and is now slim and healthy.


----------



## kerilli (20 September 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Where on earth does this myth of 'riding light' come from? Everytime this subject comes up we hear of these riders whose weight magically lessens once mounted. Sorry, that just isn't how it works. It's just if you ride badly, you feel heavier than you are.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's not possible to weigh less than you weigh, however well you ride. Pure physics. An 18 stone rider + riding kit + tack is probably more like 19-20 stone... and I don't think it's fair to ask a horse to carry than for more than a very brief period. The fact that it can carry it doesn't mean it should be expected to. 
The horse's back is a suspension bridge held up by ligaments and muscles, too much weight on top for extended periods will make it sag (just as the weight of the gut usually makes the back sway in old age). Heavy horses were bred to pull (and can pull tonnes and tonnes) NOT to carry. 
Overweight riders are a real bugbear of mine, and it is getting more and more prevalent now that everyone is so PC and obesity is seen as an affliction rather than a choice. Sorry, I know that sounds horrible and tough but 99% of us could be obese if we didn't make an effort... as riders it is up to us to make that effort for the sake of our horses' long term welfare! If all you're going to sit on is a chair or sofa, great, get as big as you like, who cares, your business. But if you're going to be sitting on a living animal then it's only fair to make the effort. Also, being overweight affects your balance, use of leg muscles, everything, hugely. 
btw, my German trainer told me he had a girl go to him asking for training. He told her to go away and lose 3 stone first. She did, he trained her, and he told me she's a very good rider now. I wish it was acceptable to be that blunt over here!   

*sits back and puts on body armour*


----------



## Wagtail (20 September 2012)

Agree with Kerilli 100%.


----------



## mtj (20 September 2012)

Going to have to back up Kerilli.

There has been some research done by the saddlery industry re weight, riding light etc.
Result was weight, is weight.  Guess its better to have a lightweight crashing about than a heavy rider, but conclusion was that the heavy rider impacts saddle area most.


----------



## rodeo12 (20 September 2012)

Would definitely have to disagree about it not being enjoyable for horse or rider. Me and my horse have done a lot of competing and he has coped fine. He has also been used for lessons and probably had riders about 20+st on him and has coped fine. He struggles with the height of people rather than the weight. He is extremely happy in what he does, we've had no back problems/lameness with him in all the time I've had him. He loves jumping and clears everything with miles of space. Has done 3ft courses on a regular basis. Loves to go for a gallop. We do four hour hacks and he comes back still raring to go. In terms of balance - I am very able to keep my balance on top. Have ridden lots of people's horses for them and again have been able to ride very light/neat/balanced and get the results. None of the horses have had a problem. The only problem I have is the height of a horse. For example a 14.2hh heavy weight could carry me, but I find that because I'm also very tall there isn't any shoulder/neck in front of me and hate that feeling. But that's mainly because I moved off 'ponies' many years ago so struggle to go back when asked. However, I do cope and still maintain balance. I just don't like the feeling. THat would probably be the same for any rider though going from horses to ponies. I know my friends (size 8's) fall off more when riding the smaller ponies because of finding where their balance should be totally different to when their on their 16.2hh horses. 




			If you are 18 stone plus because you are obese rather than Amazonian in build riding is never going to be enjoyable for you or your horse as you are just too big!!  That is probably not politically correct to say these days but I watched an overweight friend who was desperate to ride and because of her weight and size she struggled to get on and off the horse, was uncomfortable in the saddle as it was just too small for her and really found it difficult to balance on the horse because of her size.  She tried a couple of times and was very embarrassed by the RS.  The only good thing was it spurred her on to do something about her weight and ended up having a gastric band fitted and is now slim and healthy.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## rockysmum (20 September 2012)

I think its really interesting the difference in answers depending on where on HHO you post it.

There is another thread going, someone who is 18St horse owner who wants to instruct.

She has been advised to get her stage 3 and PTT.

I personally would be amazed if any of the exam centres have enough horses up to that weight to be able to offer it.

Interesting


----------



## jodie3 (20 September 2012)

Rodeo12 - That is the point I am trying to make, you may be overweight (sorry, don't mean to be rude) but you are obviously fit with it and have muscle tone.  The 'blobby' overweight people are the ones I am talking about, with no core strength and no balance.


----------



## Shysmum (20 September 2012)

I think we're going to have to get cheese and wine out tonight 

I love reading these threads, much better than TV x


----------



## luckyoldme (20 September 2012)

As a seriel yo yo dieter i go by this golden rule .
When the old man doesn t want me on top then its definately time to stop riding the horse!


----------



## flump (20 September 2012)

luckyoldme said:



			As a seriel yo yo dieter i go by this golden rule .
When the old man doesn t want me on top then its definately time to stop riding the horse!
		
Click to expand...

OMFG, Just spat tea at the laptop!!! This is hilarious!!!!


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

luckyoldme said:



			As a seriel yo yo dieter i go by this golden rule .
When the old man doesn t want me on top then its definately time to stop riding the horse!
		
Click to expand...

PMSL!


----------



## BeesKnees (20 September 2012)

I'm another one with Kerilli. I think there is a lot of denial and 'cognitive dissonance' going on with some people around weight.

I simply don't see how it is possible to be an 18 stone woman and be truly fit. Even tall male athletes, who have massive muscle bulk often weigh less. And women simply do not easily develop the same level of muscle as men. We naturally have a higher body fat level. Therefore potentially more of a woman's 18 stone is fat.

If you are 18 stone, and a woman, you are seriously overweight. You may be reasonably active, in which case you will have some cardiovascular fitness and some muscle tone and stength. However you are carrying a lot of body fat which is basically dead weight. If you wish to carry that around that is up to you, but I agree with others here that it is unfair to ask a horse to carry it for you.


----------



## BeesKnees (20 September 2012)

luckyoldme said:



			As a seriel yo yo dieter i go by this golden rule .
When the old man doesn t want me on top then its definately time to stop riding the horse!
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant


----------



## Tinseltoes (20 September 2012)

luckyoldme said:



			As a seriel yo yo dieter i go by this golden rule .
When the old man doesn t want me on top then its definately time to stop riding the horse!
		
Click to expand...




Beans2000 said:



			OMFG, Just spat tea at the laptop!!! This is hilarious!!!!
		
Click to expand...




jesstickle said:



			PMSL! 

Click to expand...

lmao glad I didnt have my cup in my hands :)


----------



## Booboos (20 September 2012)

Here is my Cakey! Breeding unknown but believed to be Suffolk Punch x, 16hh and a real HW. Bought for total novice OH who did weigh 18 stone at the time, they had a great time together for two years until silly OH lost interest. Clearly that is not the OH on him, but he's not happy about having his photo plastered all over the internet so you get me instead (no, I have no idea what I am doing with my shoulder/arm!).


----------



## SNORKEY (20 September 2012)

Hi, I think riding and owning a horse is a great way to loose weight. My mums always been over weight but poo picking and mucking out everyday has helped her a lot, she doesn't ride anymore though. 
I'd be looking for something at least 6/7 years old who has matured and about 16.2hh upwards, the coloured you've seen looks nice. 
When I worked on a dressage yard the head boy was nearly 7ft tall and was around 18 stone. He had a lovely 17.2hh hunter type and was one of the best riders I've seen. 
If your a balanced rider then a horse will find you much more easy to carry than a novice who bounces all over their back. 
Good luck with the search


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

O wow Booboos. He is absolutely lush! Is he really called Cakey?


----------



## brighthair (20 September 2012)

I think there's a big difference between 15/16 stone and 18. I work my ass off (literally!) at the gym doing bootcamp training and strongman. Have a lot of muscle, and yeah I am overweight but I don't eat crap, and I exercise 3-5 times a week. I mean exercise to the point of vomiting, not a quick walk
I am just under 5'11 and closer to 16 stone than 14 stone. I'm careful what I get on, and I am conscious of being very very balanced when I ride
Here is me riding a 16.2hh






And the best full body shot I can find!


----------



## SNORKEY (20 September 2012)

Just to add as well, I think a lot of people are being dam right rude. 
My mother was about 17 stone when she started riding. She had no problems getting on or off and her horse had no issues taking her out for hacks. I'm not over weight myself but it upsets me to see some of these comments towards the OP. 
when I worked in a riding school we had disabled people coming to ride, some of those were very big and they were put on horses not much bigger than about 15.2hh, would you tell a disabled person who gets so much pleasure from riding a horse they couldn't get on?


----------



## TrasaM (20 September 2012)

luckyoldme said:



			As a seriel yo yo dieter i go by this golden rule .
When the old man doesn t want me on top then its definately time to stop riding the horse!
		
Click to expand...

Have you tried a more forward seat and make sure you keep your weight through your legs


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

SNORKEY said:



			I'm not over weight myself but it upsets me to see some of these comments towards the OP. 
when I worked in a riding school we had disabled people coming to ride, some of those were very big and they were put on horses not much bigger than about 15.2hh, would you tell a disabled person who gets so much pleasure from riding a horse they couldn't get on?
		
Click to expand...

The OP is neither 18 stone, nor looking for a horse, so I'm not sure why she'd be upset 

Secondly, yes I've worked at a centre where we had weight limits for our ponies. These applied to able bodied or disabled children equally. The horse's welfare is also an important consideration IMO.


----------



## JanetGeorge (20 September 2012)

Babybear said:



			I wouldn't ask any horse to carry an 18+ stone rider.
		
Click to expand...

There are horses that will do it easily!

My RID stallion would carry that weight easily - although he's never asked to - and I have a 6 year old by him - out of a 17hh TB x Percheron mare who would hunt all day with that weight (although he hasn't had to (yet!)  He's in training to be a hunter for my OH and if OH gets THAT fat I'll murder him! 

This is him as a very immature 4 year old.  Not too sure he wants to be ridden by anyone!






Still immature, but better mannered.






And leaving the ground in a more legitimate fashion!






He's 17.1hh, has 10.5" of bone - but the things that MAKE him a weight carrier are a very short back, a very good depth and breadth (you could drive a small car between his front legs!)  The two riders in the pics are both just over 6' tall - so you can see how much he 'takes up the leg'!

The PROBLEM for an 18 stone rider is not finding a horse to carry that weight - but to find one who can move, and work, for an affordable price.  A GOOD HW hunter type (not necessarily show standard but one who will look smart on the hunting field and do the job) is likely to set you back £10,000 or more (there are some fat, rich MFHs around who need that sort of horse!)


----------



## marmalade76 (20 September 2012)

Wagtail said:



			Agree with Kerilli 100%.
		
Click to expand...

Me too.


----------



## luckyoldme (20 September 2012)

TrasaM said:



			Have you tried a more forward seat and make sure you keep your weight through your legs 

Click to expand...

erm........horse or old man?


----------



## TrasaM (20 September 2012)

luckyoldme said:



			erm........horse or old man?

Click to expand...

 am sure they will both be appreciative


----------



## kerilli (20 September 2012)

i used to help with and instruct at RDA. we had some very heavy kids (Downs Syndrome), and a 'pony' of 15h ish who was Highland x Percheron, he was like a white elephant. Even so, they only rode for about 15-20 mins tops, and this was no more than 2 mornings a week. some of them did struggle to get on, even from a high mountain block, but i suspect that was more poor proprioception than being big in itself.
Nobody's being rude to the OP as far as I can see.
It does make me despair when people say "the horse had no issues", the horse "didn't object"... most horses don't. the ones that do often end up in a dog food tin. just because they don't play up does not mean damage isn't being done.
btw I know three Amazonian horsewomen, all 6'+.  I mean, I'm tall and wide-shouldered but they all make me feel small. None of them are anything like 18 stone, none are skinny but I think they'd all be at the very most 13 stone.  There's no way around it, 18 stone is seriously overweight unless you are 7' tall or a professional boxer or rugby player and pure muscle!


----------



## ElphabaFae (20 September 2012)

kerilli said:



			Exactly. It's not possible to weigh less than you weigh, however well you ride. Pure physics. An 18 stone rider + riding kit + tack is probably more like 19-20 stone... and I don't think it's fair to ask a horse to carry than for more than a very brief period. The fact that it can carry it doesn't mean it should be expected to. 
The horse's back is a suspension bridge held up by ligaments and muscles, too much weight on top for extended periods will make it sag (just as the weight of the gut usually makes the back sway in old age). Heavy horses were bred to pull (and can pull tonnes and tonnes) NOT to carry. 
Overweight riders are a real bugbear of mine, and it is getting more and more prevalent now that everyone is so PC and obesity is seen as an affliction rather than a choice. Sorry, I know that sounds horrible and tough but 99% of us could be obese if we didn't make an effort... as riders it is up to us to make that effort for the sake of our horses' long term welfare! If all you're going to sit on is a chair or sofa, great, get as big as you like, who cares, your business. But if you're going to be sitting on a living animal then it's only fair to make the effort. Also, being overweight affects your balance, use of leg muscles, everything, hugely. 
btw, my German trainer told me he had a girl go to him asking for training. He told her to go away and lose 3 stone first. She did, he trained her, and he told me she's a very good rider now. I wish it was acceptable to be that blunt over here!   

*sits back and puts on body armour*  

Click to expand...

*Agrees*


----------



## SNORKEY (20 September 2012)

After a lot of reading I've now realised the OP isn't the over weight one. But I'm sure there are some over weight people reading this who are a bit upset.


----------



## AdorableAlice (20 September 2012)

Wagtail said:



			I do like this horse and yes, she has plenty of bone, but that back looks quite hollow and weak around the loins to me. A common problem with the heavy sorts. I would not like to see more than 15 stone on that mare. I had a very similar, but bigger 17.2 full up ID gelding. He had a similar back confo and really struggled when an 18 stone rider got on him.
		
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right, been with us 6 weeks. Previously with a heavyish novice who hung on by her mouth.  She didn't know how to stretch forward or down and her back did not have the muscles to allow it to come up and carry the rider, she was totally on her shoulder.

She has improved vastly with much work in walk, leg yield and transitions and her back is building up nicely.  I posted the picture to show true bone and to show a type of horse so difficult to find, they are simply not bred very often.  I would not part with her unless my circumstances changed and I could not afford to keep her properly.  The dream is for her to be a Hoy's maxi cob and then go to a big pure RID to breed a tall HW show hunter.

It is a very emotive subject, but horses of the right stamp can and do carry heavier riders with ease and lead useful lives kept by knowledgable and caring owners.


----------



## Jesstickle (20 September 2012)

brighthair said:



			And the best full body shot I can find!






Click to expand...

You're like me. You weigh more than anyone would ever guess you do. I don't think you're especially over weight based on your photos!


----------



## luckyoldme (20 September 2012)

SNORKEY said:



			After a lot of reading I've now realised the OP isn't the over weight one. But I'm sure there are some over weight people reading this who are a bit upset.
		
Click to expand...

Thankyou for your support.


----------



## BeesKnees (20 September 2012)

SNORKEY said:



			After a lot of reading I've now realised the OP isn't the over weight one. But I'm sure there are some over weight people reading this who are a bit upset.
		
Click to expand...

Yes you may be right. And I'm sure that is not the intention of any of the posters. It certainy want my intention. 

Sometimes 'straight talking' upsets people, but that doesnt mean what is said isn't correct or actually potentially helpful once people get over the upset. I know there are times I've needed it.

I don't believe there is some 'right' to not be upset or offended ever.


----------



## racingdemon (20 September 2012)

just a comment on the riding heavy/light.....
 back in the day, when i had pointers, they had to carry 12.5st when running in a members race, now a dripping wet though moi came nowhere near, & said 15.2 & 16hh whippets had to carry almost 2 stone of lead..... slapped flat on their backs while they galloped & jumped for 3.5 miles, now the same horses, when ridden by the boys, required no lead & oh how they preferred it..... 12.5 stone of body moves as you take off, lead (that i had to drag back into the weighing room) doesn't lift or move, so i'm sure there is a marginal difference between a rider who is fit & strong & can there fore move in balance in the saddle & someone weighing the same who is without any core strength or balance??


----------



## kerilli (20 September 2012)

racingdemon, I agree. 
Back when eventers had to carry lead one or two who were ridden by lightweight female riders were notorious for playing up in the saddling enclosure when being saddled with a stone or so of lead. I knew someone who had lead built into the trees of both her saddles so that the mare got used to carrying that much weight (rider was 7 stone).  There was a brilliant little 4 star horse called The Black Magician, he was about 15.2. He had a fatal fall where he tipped a fence, fell, and broke his shoulder. His rider blamed the lead for the fact that he couldn't save himself (he tried very hard). Weight makes a difference. Live weight is better than dead weight but lower weight is better than higher! 
I'm not intending to insult anyone, but sometimes people kid themselves that they're not as big as they really are, or that it's not an issue to the horse. 'Vanity sizing' by high street stores doesn't help... e.g. have a pair of 'size 8' Next jeans that fit me perfectly. Ha. Me - size 8. Get real. No way, not in the real world. Nice to be flattered though, but not fooled...    Sizing nowadays is nothing like it was years ago, so it's easy to be misled.
Eventually everyone comes to a point when they say 'enough'... maybe at 12 stone, or 14 or 16 or 18 or whatever. the earlier you decide, the easier it is to get back to where you want to be!


----------



## Cortez (20 September 2012)

kerilli said:



			racingdemon, I agree. 
Back when eventers had to carry lead one or two who were ridden by lightweight female riders were notorious for playing up in the saddling enclosure when being saddled with a stone or so of lead. I knew someone who had lead built into the trees of both her saddles so that the mare got used to carrying that much weight (rider was 7 stone).  There was a brilliant little 4 star horse called The Black Magician, he was about 15.2. He had a fatal fall where he tipped a fence, fell, and broke his shoulder. His rider blamed the lead for the fact that he couldn't save himself (he tried very hard). Weight makes a difference. Live weight is better than dead weight but lower weight is better than higher! 
I'm not intending to insult anyone, but sometimes people kid themselves that they're not as big as they really are, or that it's not an issue to the horse. 'Vanity sizing' by high street stores doesn't help... e.g. have a pair of 'size 8' Next jeans that fit me perfectly. Ha. Me - size 8. Get real. No way, not in the real world. Nice to be flattered though, but not fooled...    Sizing nowadays is nothing like it was years ago, so it's easy to be misled.
Eventually everyone comes to a point when they say 'enough'... maybe at 12 stone, or 14 or 16 or 18 or whatever. the earlier you decide, the easier it is to get back to where you want to be!  

Click to expand...

^^^ LOTS of common sense here ^


----------



## racingdemon (20 September 2012)

LOL Kerilli..... so i'm not really a size 6??


----------



## Littlelegs (20 September 2012)

Agree with kerilli too. In my late teens I had an 19stone boyfriend. He was 6'3, big boned & seriously into weight lifting. Think Arnold swartsanotevengoingtotry&spellit in conan the barbarian. Very few people are that weight & healthy. 
  No idea why anyone would be offended by this thread at all. It's not fair to overload a horse because to not do might offend someone. Unfortunately, too heavy is too heavy.


----------



## kerilli (20 September 2012)

racingdemon said:



			LOL Kerilli..... so i'm not really a size 6?? 

Click to expand...

Maybe you are, I don't know! I do know that I'm a 10-12 and my skeleton in a coffin might possibly get down to a size 8, but I definitely am NOT!


----------



## ozpoz (20 September 2012)

horserider said:



			Buy a horse and break it to drive but don't ride it.
		
Click to expand...

Yup - best suggestion so far.


----------



## YorksG (20 September 2012)

I think this girl could manage quite well......


----------



## teapot (20 September 2012)

jesstickle said:



			That's what I always think. Even WFP must weigh a bit. He may be as wide as a rake but he's tall and carrying muscle so hardly likely to be a light weight.
		
Click to expand...

According to the Olympic website, he's only around 12 stone. http://www.london2012.com/athlete/fox-pitt-william-1116250/


----------



## FfionWinnie (20 September 2012)

BMI is a funny old thing isn't it. I have recently lost a bit of weight but the BMI thing says I should lose another two stone. One friend has asked me if I have an eating disorder and another few have said well done on the weight loss but please do not lose any more you look anorexic (I think that's an exaggeration and not because I have an eating disorder and am in denial, honestly!!). Two other folk have asked if I am ill. . 

I'm not really trying to lose any more but I feel myself about another stone would be nice. Then I'd be a size ten in jeans. 

So I wouldn't get too hung up about the BMI thing.


----------



## 111ex111 (20 September 2012)

YorksG said:



			I think this girl could manage quite well......





Click to expand...

ohhhh she's lovely!


----------



## rhino (20 September 2012)

FfionWinnie said:



			BMI is a funny old thing isn't it. I have recently lost a bit of weight but the BMI thing says I should lose another two stone. One friend has asked me if I have an eating disorder and another few have said well done on the weight loss but please do not lose any more you look anorexic (I think that's an exaggeration and not because I have an eating disorder and am in denial, honestly!!). Two other folk have asked if I am ill. .
		
Click to expand...

You can be _any_ weight and have an eating disorder  It's funny that people always associate them with 'skinny' people though.

Sudden and dramatic weight loss is not a good idea, so maybe people are just worried. Or jealous


----------



## Booboos (20 September 2012)

jesstickle said:



			O wow Booboos. He is absolutely lush! Is he really called Cakey?
		
Click to expand...

Thank you! He is indeed called Cakey! Apparently he came over from Ireland called 'Ginger' but his previous owner didn't think it suited him and changed it to 'Jaffa'. I heard Jaffa, Jaffa Cakes came to mind and he's been Cakey ever since (10 lovely years now!).

For what it's worth Cakey's back has always been regularly checked by the physio who does all my other horses and she has never found any problems caused by the weight of his rider or anything else. In fact of all my horses he has had the lowest vet bills and nothing back or weight of rider related.


----------



## YorksG (20 September 2012)

hollieeb said:



			ohhhh she's lovely!
		
Click to expand...

Thank you  She is Pearlsasinger (my sis)'s horse and a very very lovely lady, who we are very fond of.  
She is teaching a friend of ours to ride, the friend has a number of medical problems, which mean that at 5'2" weighs 18st, our big girl loves it when the friend comes to ride and has no problem whatsover with the weight.


----------



## mandwhy (20 September 2012)

What about this hulk? 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am 14 stone and I don't think anyone would guess it (although I am heavier than I would like at the mo thanks to injury) I am just a heavy person and most horses over 15.2 of middle sort of weight don't seem to struggle. 

http://www.horsemart.co.uk/all_rounder_horse_9_yrs_16_3_hh_palomino_north_yor/advert/243149


----------



## FfionWinnie (20 September 2012)

rhino said:



			You can be _any_ weight and have an eating disorder  It's funny that people always associate them with 'skinny' people though.

Sudden and dramatic weight loss is not a good idea, so maybe people are just worried. Or jealous 

Click to expand...

Yes I know that but I don't have an eating disorder. I've lost it over the course of a year and a bit but I am designed in such a way I look bigger than I am if I wear anything other than a tight top  so I think it's just more noticeable in the summer.


----------



## TrasaM (20 September 2012)

Can I hazard a theory that it's not so much the weight of the rider (within limits) as what you do with the horse. Hacking gently about in trot and brief canters with a heavy rider For an hour or so can't possibly put as much pressure on a horses limbs as an average weight person jumping, hunting or doing x.country ...just a theory ?
  Please can someone do me a favour and look on YouTube for 
Fat Man vs Arab..I can't seem to get the link to work but think it might be worth having a look


----------



## Mike007 (20 September 2012)

Over the last 50 odd years I have seen far more horses broken down by light weight riders than heavy riders. A simple fact .


----------



## Rose Folly (20 September 2012)

Jodie3. Just saw your response to my post about the Suffolk Punches x TBs. I do have an old picture, but it's in a frame in Northumberland! The horse in question, rather inappropriately named Tinkerbelle, looks to be about 16.3. She resembles a HW hunter type, with abolsutely clean unfeathered legs (which of course Suffolks do not have anyway), appears to have the Suffolk colour (photo taken in 1935 so b/w), and a really nice head, with a tad more quality than a Suffolk but in no way too TBish for the rest of her body. Deep bodied, very powerful chest and quarters, not overly long legs but not out of proportion, short cannon bones and moderate hooves. Altogether a very pretty buxom girl. They used to fetch several thousand then - plus of course the shipping costs!


----------



## Booboos (21 September 2012)

mandwhy said:



			What about this hulk? 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am 14 stone and I don't think anyone would guess it (although I am heavier than I would like at the mo thanks to injury) I am just a heavy person and most horses over 15.2 of middle sort of weight don't seem to struggle. 

http://www.horsemart.co.uk/all_rounder_horse_9_yrs_16_3_hh_palomino_north_yor/advert/243149

Click to expand...

He's gorgeous! I can't see why he couldn't carry 18 stone no problem.


----------



## Booboos (21 September 2012)

YorksG said:



			I think this girl could manage quite well......





Click to expand...

Very cute! I agree I think she would be fine as well!


----------



## Jesstickle (21 September 2012)

Booboos said:



			Thank you! He is indeed called Cakey! Apparently he came over from Ireland called 'Ginger' but his previous owner didn't think it suited him and changed it to 'Jaffa'. I heard Jaffa, Jaffa Cakes came to mind and he's been Cakey ever since (10 lovely years now!).
		
Click to expand...

Love it. If he would fit in my trailer and you didn't live so far away I would be on a mission to steal him. He must be like riding a sofa


----------



## Star_Chaser (21 September 2012)

I like the look of Toffee when I was trawling for ponies but so not the right horse for us right now.


----------



## Mickyjoe (21 September 2012)

Leah3horses said:



			The posts 'no horse should carry 18 plus stone' amaze me..sheer ignorance.How much do you think the likes of Nick Skelton / Geoff Billington plus all tack weigh? Must be in the region of 16 stone, AND they are showjumping on warmbloods!
		
Click to expand...

Well I consider 18 stone too heavy for any horse to have to carry..

Re Nick Skelton...

http://www.teamgb.com/athletes/nick-skelton

and for those who say tall men must weigh more etc..

Have a look at 6'5" William Fox-Pitt's weight. 
http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/fo/william-fox-pitt-1.html


----------



## fatpiggy (21 September 2012)

For me, a person (I assume the OP is female) weighing 18+ stone needs to lose weight for their own benefit first, and for the horse's second.  Even a taller than average lady shouldn't be as heavy as that.  It isn't good for your joints for a start.  I'm really glad the OP has already started doing something about it.  Don't rush it, just watch exactly what you eat and be more active.  Once your body gets used to using the muscles more it will get easier, so you will be able to do progressively more and more.    As for snacking, despite the "healthy" tag of fruit and nuts, they contain alot of sugar and nuts can be fatty. Best to stick to more veg if you can.   A bit less meat, a bit more fish and drink plenty as it fools your stomach into thinking it is already half full.  Soup keeps you feeling full for MUCH longer and is cheap to make and freeze.  Don't be obsesses by the scales, just weigh yourself once a month.  Your clothes will tell you if you are losing weight!


----------



## The wife (21 September 2012)

There was an interesting letter in H&H last week about weights of children and ponies...  Surely if a 13hh SHP can carry a 10st child (I've seen them!) would a heavyweight 18hh horse not manage 18st??  I'm being hypothetical now before.

Tin hat at the ready...


----------



## EllenJay (21 September 2012)

TuscanBunnyGirl said:



			I don't know if I'd want 18stone on my back...
		
Click to expand...

Not sure if I would want 5 stone on my back - so your point is.........?


----------



## Littlelegs (21 September 2012)

Tbh, I wouldn't want a 10stone kid on a 13hh showpony either.


----------



## flump (21 September 2012)

fatpiggy said:



			For me, a person (I assume the OP is female) weighing 18+ stone needs to lose weight for their own benefit first, and for the horse's second.  Even a taller than average lady shouldn't be as heavy as that.  It isn't good for your joints for a start.  I'm really glad the OP has already started doing something about it.  Don't rush it, just watch exactly what you eat and be more active.  Once your body gets used to using the muscles more it will get easier, so you will be able to do progressively more and more.    As for snacking, despite the "healthy" tag of fruit and nuts, they contain alot of sugar and nuts can be fatty. Best to stick to more veg if you can.   A bit less meat, a bit more fish and drink plenty as it fools your stomach into thinking it is already half full.  Soup keeps you feeling full for MUCH longer and is cheap to make and freeze.  Don't be obsesses by the scales, just weigh yourself once a month.  Your clothes will tell you if you are losing weight!
		
Click to expand...


sorry please read my post in full, i am not 18stone+


----------



## The wife (21 September 2012)

If the animal is happy, healthy and fit enough to do so, I don't really see the problem.  I used to work for a lady that due to health reasons and a disability was rather heavy, however, her Shire x used to do a full days hunting twice a week with no ill effects at all.  A heavy rider may ride more sympathetically than the lightweight rider at times.  

People may see a 14st lady riding a light 15hh tb and not blink an eye because perhaps that animal is capable of carrying them.  Why shouldn't a heavier rider be able to have the rights to having a horse than anybody else?  I mean if we were talking about the above 15hh light tb carrying 18st I might baulk but on a heavy horse, what's the problem.  These animals were designed to pull tonnes of weight over their shoulder and backs.


----------



## BeesKnees (21 September 2012)

The wife said:



			There was an interesting letter in H&H last week about weights of children and ponies...  Surely if a 13hh SHP can carry a 10st child (I've seen them!) would a heavyweight 18hh horse not manage 18st??  I'm being hypothetical now before.

Tin hat at the ready...
		
Click to expand...

What concerns me most is the idea of a 10 stone child  what age were they talking about?


----------



## The wife (21 September 2012)

The letter didn't say about putting a 10st child on a SHP but I have myself witnessed children heavier than me riding these ponies.  They are 14 or under.  Age taken as of 1st jan of that year.


----------



## rhino (21 September 2012)

PC MGA rules

128s - under 54kg dressed to ride
133s- under 60kg dressed to ride
138s - under 66kg dressed to ride


----------



## BeesKnees (21 September 2012)

rhino said:



			PC MGA rules

128s - under 54kg dressed to ride
133s- under 60kg dressed to ride
138s - under 66kg dressed to ride
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Rhino can you translate the classes? I never did PC so don't know what the 128/133 etc relates to?


----------



## kerilli (21 September 2012)

The wife said:



			People may see a 14st lady riding a light 15hh tb and not blink an eye because perhaps that animal is capable of carrying them.  Why shouldn't a heavier rider be able to have the rights to having a horse than anybody else?  I mean if we were talking about the above 15hh light tb carrying 18st I might baulk but on a heavy horse, what's the problem.  These animals were designed to pull tonnes of weight over their shoulder and backs.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, pull tonnes of weight, agreed... but not carry it. The horse's back is a suspension bridge, the bones are only held in line by ligaments, tendons, muscles. The reason most old horses get sway backs is because the heavy weight of their gut pulls their back down (weakens it so that it sags). A heavy weight on top can do the same thing. A short back is stronger than a long one, but the fact that a horse is 'heavy' does not mean it should be used for carrying very heavy riders.
I have seen the result of a nice short-backed young coloured cob x horse being backed and worked far too young (2 yrs old onwards) by a clueless woman, who was also not super-light (if she had been, she might possibly have gotten away with it). He had a terrible sway back, true lordosis.


----------



## rhino (21 September 2012)

BeesKnees said:



			Sorry Rhino can you translate the classes? I never did PC so don't know what the 128/133 etc relates to? 

Click to expand...

Sorry  128 = 12.2hh (and a little bit!), 133 = 13hh and 138 =13.2hh


----------



## Honey08 (21 September 2012)

Beans2000 said:



			sorry please read my post in full, i am not 18stone+
		
Click to expand...

Poor Beans, half the forum hasn't read it properly and have you down for 18 stones!

I personally think quite a lot of horses would carry that weight.  What I don't think would cope is a modern day saddle...  I've put a few stone on over the last few years (work is in progress to shift it) and while I'm not near that weight, I have noticed that my  saddle sits lower quicker than it used to, and needs restuffing more often.  I also don't feel as balanced as I did when I was fitter and firmer, and wouldn't compete for the moment as I just don't feel as good a rider.


----------



## rhino (21 September 2012)

Another candidate, he's lovely 
http://www.horseselect.co.uk/hunters/hunt417/hunt417.htm


----------



## BeesKnees (21 September 2012)

rhino said:



			Sorry  128 = 12.2hh (and a little bit!), 133 = 13hh and 138 =13.2hh
		
Click to expand...

Wow, so up to 10.5 stone on a 13.2hh? My first pony was 13.2 Welshie sec B. I can't imagine her carrying that weight but maybe I'm too soft! Is there any breed difference or is it 13.2hh across the board?


----------



## rhino (21 September 2012)

BeesKnees said:



			Wow, so up to 10.5 stone on a 13.2hh? My first pony was 13.2 Welshie sec B. I can't imagine her carrying that weight but maybe I'm too soft! Is there any breed difference or is it 13.2hh across the board?
		
Click to expand...

That's just for games, I don't think there are weight rules for other disciplines, just age ones. Games ponies tend to be lightweight, speedy little ponies though, not cobby types.

Good to know I could still ride 12.2s if I so wanted (and wasn't ancient  )


----------



## Wagtail (21 September 2012)

The wife said:



			These animals were designed to pull tonnes of weight over their shoulder and backs.
		
Click to expand...

Who 'designed' them?


----------



## The wife (21 September 2012)

Ok, perhaps wrong choice of word... Bred would maybe be better.  Having said that 'designer horses' now that's a way to make money from those that have too much money.


----------



## cronkmooar (21 September 2012)

The wife said:



			There was an interesting letter in H&H last week about weights of children and ponies...  Surely if a 13hh SHP can carry a 10st child (I've seen them!) would a heavyweight 18hh horse not manage 18st??  I'm being hypothetical now before.

Tin hat at the ready...
		
Click to expand...

Knowing the lady that wrote the above letter and the classes her children compete in I think some the sights she would be referring to would be adults on Section A's and B's. There is no age limit in M&M classes - or weight limit - and a signifiant amount of adults compete in these classes - when quite frankley they should not be because they are too big

Going back to the original question of finding a horse suitable for an 18stone rider if its a genuine request and you are looking for a quality horse have a look at

Horse quest - show horses - county level - scroll not too far down - heavyweight hunter Shanteram (sp)

Not my horse and I have no connection to him but he would happily carry that weight


----------



## Stanski (21 September 2012)

Im a bog girl and ride a 15.3 TbxshirexID and she has no problems, I've ridden her for a year and had a chiropractor out to see her and she said she has no problems carrying my weight my farrier constantly tells me she could carry much more than I weigh. A riding instructor has said she copes just fine and even the vet has said she would not struggle and we tear up and down together and she is always ready for more. So who is going to go against 4 professionals positive opinions?


----------



## Star_Chaser (21 September 2012)

Surely if a highland pony can carry the weight of a red deer stag down from the hills it can carry the weight of an overweight child?? ok maybe not in pony games but certainly as a happy hacker?  Red stags aren't light even when they have been prepared for the larder or game dealer.

Sometimes I do wonder if we underestimate the abilities of our ponies and horses it wasn't so long ago they would have been expected to pull the cart and farm machinery and do the odd days hunting.


----------



## FluffyFeathers (21 September 2012)

To whoever made a comment about a 10 stone child... Yes it's possible! 

My weight went like this -
7 yo = 7 stone
8 yo = 8 stone
9 yo = 9 stone
10 yo = 10 stone

I was 5'7" by the time I was 11 - people thought I'd be well over 6' unfortunately that's how I stayed. I did ride and did receive a lot of comments about my weight (from both adults and other kids) people didn't seem to take my extra height into account and as a result I was concious about my weight from a very young age. Many of my teenage years in particular were spent thinking I was fat, I'm still not completely comfortable.

I'm now 24 and weigh 10stone - I'm the same weight I was when I was 10 - this is obviously my bodies natural weight. The heaviest I've ever been was 10stone 10lb and that was after some serious xmas eating, it came off in 6 weeks.

As for ponies, I was off ponies and on to horses by the age of 8/9. I believed for a time I could only ride horses over 16.2hh with lots of bone, because of comments. Since that time (when I was still in the horsey world) I've quite happily bombed round a course f jumps on a hw 13.3hh pony - I felt I was going to squish him at first, and told my RI how much I weighed and her words "don't be stupid get on, they are stronger animals than what you give them credit for".

Saying that - 18 stone is probably pushing it.


----------



## Mike007 (21 September 2012)

Honey08 said:



			Poor Beans, half the forum hasn't read it properly and have you down for 18 stones!

I personally think quite a lot of horses would carry that weight.  What I don't think would cope is a modern day saddle...  I've put a few stone on over the last few years (work is in progress to shift it) and while I'm not near that weight, I have noticed that my  saddle sits lower quicker than it used to, and needs restuffing more often.  I also don't feel as balanced as I did when I was fitter and firmer, and wouldn't compete for the moment as I just don't feel as good a rider.
		
Click to expand...

Totaly agree about the saddles. There are far too many people calling themselves saddlers who frankly havnt a clue. There are many things a good saddler can do to negate the effects of weight ,and there are many modern saddles that can damage a horses back with even a light rider .


----------



## Birker2020 (13 April 2021)

Old post sorry.


----------



## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (13 April 2021)

Oh dear!!! All I can say is well done OP for recognising the fact that you need to work at your weight. Well done, you are not denying the issue; you are actually facing up to it and intend to deal with it. So I wish you well.

However, I would very respectfully suggest that - for this interim period before you achieve the necessary weight loss - that you enjoy all things "equestrian", but not actually get into the saddle. Whilst you are losing weight, you can improve your general fitness, agility, co-ordination & balance through both cardio-vascular exercise AND things to improve suppleness such as Pilates and Yoga. A combination of these things will help you! Also have a look at the Jon Pitts "Fit to Ride" website as he recommends the use of bounce-balls for improving balance.

As someone else has suggested, carriage driving might be something which you could get involved in??? Try your local "British Driving Society", or perhaps if you want to be a little more adventurous you could try the "trials" driving!! Like the stuff Prince Phillip did!!! What a wonderful example he was of the sheer zest of the sport!

Good luck to you, and I hope we hear from you perhaps later in the year to see  how you have got on!


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (13 April 2021)

Most men weigh 15st plus if they are 6ft or over, my OH at his lightest was 15.5st and he is 6ft4. I have shared pictures of him riding my very fit 14.3/15hh Welsh sec D x on the photos thread. He was not fat just broad and muscly.

we see plenty of male riders competing professionally and not all of them are exactly racing thin 🤔


----------



## Amymay (13 April 2021)

Mega zombie thread


----------



## Cinnamontoast (13 April 2021)

🧟‍♀️🧟


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (13 April 2021)

Cinnamontoast said:



			🧟‍♀️🧟
		
Click to expand...

love those emojis very rarely can I find a use for them! You have given me one 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Birker2020 (14 April 2021)

This is an old thread that appeared in the New Posts section and which I responded to before deleting when I realised it went back to 2012.  I have no idea why it suddenly appeared.


----------



## Winters100 (14 April 2021)

rhino said:



			Sorry  128 = 12.2hh (and a little bit!), 133 = 13hh and 138 =13.2hh
		
Click to expand...

Interesting, these are quite high. About 9 stone 6 lbs for a 13 h pony, I would not think that many children weigh that much even dressed to ride. Does it maybe include the tack?


----------



## Pinkvboots (14 April 2021)

Winters100 said:



			Interesting, these are quite high. About 9 stone 6 lbs for a 13 h pony, I would not think that many children weigh that much even dressed to ride. Does it maybe include the tack?
		
Click to expand...

It does seem heavy considering I am 9.5 stone as a fully grown adult.


----------



## Alwaysmoretoknow (14 April 2021)

Ok so where do we all actually sit on the horse welfare vs human mental health or cultural approach to horse husbandry balance? Is it ok to advocate for heavy riders wanting to ride when maybe they are compromising a horse's current and future well-being while condeming people who hoard/negect their animals due to mental health issues or treat their horses in a way many if us would find unacceptable but is a cultural norm? What trumps what and where do we draw the line in what is a highly charged ethical issue? Discuss.
Off to have another glass of wine  and hide........


----------



## Alwaysmoretoknow (14 April 2021)

Frankly I'm coming down on the side of the horse whatever else is going on.


----------



## TPO (14 April 2021)

No, it's not ok. Animal welfare should come first

https://kayhastilowmastersaddler.blogspot.com/2021/04/busting-myths-17-my-weight-isnt-any.html?m=1


----------



## Getbackboys (15 April 2021)

always, i dont believe the spin “he is 16 stone but its not fat its muscle etc” he still weighs 16 stone - end of


----------



## Tiddlypom (15 April 2021)

Alwaysmoretoknow said:



			Ok so where do we all actually sit on the horse welfare vs human mental health or cultural approach to horse husbandry balance?
		
Click to expand...

The horse's welfare trumps everything else, or it should do, but we know that in practice often it doesn't.


----------



## ycbm (15 April 2021)

Winters100 said:



			Interesting, these are quite high. About 9 stone 6 lbs for a 13 h pony, I would not think that many children weigh that much even dressed to ride. Does it maybe include the tack?
		
Click to expand...

Adults ride ponies and either ride show ponies themselves or warm them up for children to show them.


----------



## palo1 (15 April 2021)

I read the Kay Hastilow post and it just seems like simple common sense to me.  I wonder why saddle fitters don't just routinely ask their clients 'How much do you currently weigh'? when doing a fitting.  Perhaps it is not in the saddle fitting culture - particularly where saddle fitters feel anxious about being replaced by a fitter who won't ask personal questions    I know it can be difficult to address BUT there are several ways that conversations can support riders - saddle fitters can suggest that current weight requires a different approach (limited riding)  or they are able to clarify that in their view the rider's weight is not an issue re: saddle fitting and the horse's health.  Having been larger and smaller as a rider myself I think it is horribly awkward if you are concerned about your weight and no-one says anything constructive!  I tried to ask questions about my riding weight some years ago and those questions were brushed off in a rather embarrassed fashion.  I have a different fitter now and I know that she would find a way to raise the conversation if I didn't.  Now it is just part and parcel of the saddle check appointment.  I find it useful personally in fact.   It would be hugely helpful to have that clarity from an equestrian professional tbh.  I guess though that if riders don't have an on-going relationship with their saddle fitter then that could be tricky; it's maybe not so easy to have that conversation with someone 'new' though it could be understood as a routine part of a fitting.  I mean, having a horse is one thing for people to do, riding it is another and it just seems obvious to include the rider's weight in saddle fitting/horse health checks !


----------



## ozpoz (15 April 2021)

Not just saddle fitters. Vets and physios should broach the subject too when treating equines. My horse physio does as a matter of routine even with lightweight riders. It is a welfare issue, and we know that rider weight can have a significant impact on ridden horses.


----------



## Birker2020 (15 April 2021)

I am really bearing my soul here so could do without any unkind comments please.  This is me on my 17.1 WB.  The first image was taken around Oct last year when I was 17.5 stone and the second photo was taken around 2014 when I used to compete reguarly.  I deliberately try to get photos of me facing towards the camera as I don't like seeing the size of my legs when I am heavier.   

I have started back at the gym swimming and will take up spin classes when the studio is back open again.  I am also watching what I eat and have been having soups and salads for lunch and tea.

I'm up against it as two of my three prescription medications cause weight gain but I am on a list to see a spinal neuro surgeon for a back operation so hope to come off them.  This is the year I am determined to make a difference to the rest of my life.  I hold weight in my upper legs and tummy.

I would die for more confidence so I am hoping that if I lose weight this will come.  I also worry that I think realistically this is probably the last year I will have my horse and when I have to find another I am dreading trying them out at my current weight.  People can be very shallow and judgey and NEVER offer me a ride on their horses, they just look at me and I know....it makes me feel so sad. However, there is one lady on the yard that lets me ride her horse and she really is my hero, she can never understand just how much it means to me at the moment.

I used to compete regularly years ago and know that I am a balanced rider and I think this makes the difference. I'm just horrendously out of practice.
If riders are heavy then there is normally a problem, we don't just stuff ourselves day and night, there are reasons why we are like we are and some of us are desperate to lose the weight and not be judged by people.


----------



## sportsmansB (15 April 2021)

I understand that many people have horribly unfortunate reasons for being heavy (medications etc)
But horses shouldn't have to take that into account / put up with it as such 
If people own a horse but are too heavy to ride, the horse most likely won't care that its not being ridden as long as it is well looked after, exercised in another way and all other needs met. 
I would have much more time for a heavy person who was not riding, than one who was
There are lots of other sports that heavy people also can't be doing, I don't get the feeling of entitlement to ride.

I have a big boned 16.3hh ISH, and tbh I wouldn't put more than 14.5st on him.


----------



## Michen (15 April 2021)

I had a horrible shock going to the doctors the other day, I knew I’d put on weight but wasn’t expecting to be closer to 11 stone than 10. My 15hh connemaras weigh around 420kg and I am determined to get back nearer to the 10 (or under) for their benefit. And that’s still within the 20% guideline but I have a young horse and a horse with an injury, why would I want to make it harder for them. 

A friend of mine was going to be riding one this weekend. I’m afraid when she told me her weight (I didn’t ask) and it was nearly 12 stone (like me we’ve both enjoyed too much cake over lockdown!) I had to say no. A really hard conversation to have but ultimately even for one ride I don’t want my horses working harder than they need to. 

20% “rule” or not, it seems madness that we spend so much on saddle fitting, vet bills, physio etc without addressing the one thing that could probably make a significant difference to our horses. 

So my next remit is not only to lose a little weight but also get fitter too.


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (15 April 2021)

...


----------



## smolmaus (15 April 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			So again having read that article should men not be riding then? I wonder what Some of these well built riders weigh.

We seem to focus on us being overweight women and overweight being fat. Many people can be overweight and still perfectly fit and thin looking. Should we be losing muscle mass along with fat to make sure we are a perfect weight?

For my height I’m overweight at between 9 and 10st. However at 10st I’m a size 10/12. At 9.7st I’m a size 10. If you looked at me I’d look fine but I’m still looking at a BMi of over 25.

Also unless a saddle fitter is going to carry a set of scales with them and ask you to hop on then there is now way they can prove what someone weighs. Even if I was 10st if I was asked to hop on scales the person asking me would be told to beat it under no uncertain terms.

I get that people go in about the horse and the effect it has on them but it means that male riders will be watching their weights constantly and many will be too heavy by those standards to ride.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. Following post not directed at you btw, just following on I think. 

I am not an expert by any means (but then again neither are most people) but the 20% rule seems to suffer from the same problems as BMI when we start using it as a RULE and not just a fairly arbitrary line in the sand because well, I suppose we need to draw a line somewhere?

BMI is not a measure of health, it is at it's most basic a ratio of height and weight. It suffers considerably when it comes to women and POC and at either end of the height spectrum. It takes no actual health-related measurements yet it is often used as a measure of health (BMI>25? DIET TIME 🤢) by people who don't know better. When you are looking at diverse, large populations it might be useful but on a personal level it really gives very limited information to the point of being completely useless. 

The 20% rule is just weight vs weight, taking nothing about conformation, fitness or even general health into consideration (for both horses and riders). It gives extremely limited information on a personal level even though maybe, when you have a large enough sample size, it might be "correct". I personally have no problems with riding schools or individual owners setting hard weight limits on their horses using the 20% rule in principle ( I know some people do) but if you have access to more information, like horses fitness, conformation, workload etc and the rider's general fitness, musculature, balance, experience etc then the 20% rule or just weight vs weight should be doing very little work. You have enough information then to make a DETAILED assessment, not a ballpark one. 90% of people do this subconsciously I'm sure, they'll just call it "making an exception" to the rule rather than acknowledging the rule is too vague to be very useful a lot of the time anyway.


----------



## ihatework (15 April 2021)

Birker2020 it’s a really difficult and emotive subject. People all have different body shapes and metabolisms which mean there is a vast variation in what their natural correct weight should be. Add onto that the myriad of reasons that can then put someone into the obese + category (eg medications, menopause, psychological issues) then it’s an awful subject to have to admit to yourself or broach with someone else.

I can only speak for myself but over the last few years have put on a horrifying amount of weight. Although nowhere near your current weight. I’m a good rider, but it impacts your balance, your effectiveness and your confidence. I have pretty much stopped riding bar the occasional hack on big (17hh +), fit, sound horses because I don’t feel I can justify my weight on any horses back regularly. I have a 16hh 5yo I bred that I would love to have a sit on but am refraining until I’m 13st. Even then it will only be a sporadic hack.

You have to choose your own path on this, but it’s a brave thing to do to admit and change the course of things


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (15 April 2021)

smolmaus said:



			Indeed. Following post not directed at you btw, just following on I think.

I am not an expert by any means (but then again neither are most people) but the 20% ‘guideline’ seems to suffer from the same problems as BMI when we start using it as a RULE and not just a fairly arbitrary line in the sand because well, I suppose we need to draw a line somewhere?

BMI is not a measure of health, it is at it's most basic a ratio of height and weight. It suffers considerably when it comes to women and POC and at either end of the height spectrum. It takes no actual health-related measurements yet it is often used as a measure of health (BMI>25? DIET TIME 🤢) by people who don't know better. When you are looking at diverse, large populations it might be useful but on a personal level it really gives very limited information to the point of being completely useless.

The 20% rule is just weight vs weight, taking nothing about conformation, fitness or even general health into consideration (for both horses and riders). It gives extremely limited information on a personal level even though maybe, when you have a large enough sample size, it might be "correct". I personally have no problems with riding schools or individual owners setting hard weight limits on their horses using the 20% rule in principle ( I know some people do) but if you have access to more information, like horses fitness, conformation, workload etc and the rider's general fitness, musculature, balance, experience etc then the 20% rule or just weight vs weight should be doing very little work. You have enough information then to make a DETAILED assessment, not a ballpark one. 90% of people do this subconsciously I'm sure, they'll just call it "making an exception" to the rule rather than acknowledging the rule is too vague to be very useful a lot of the time anyway.
		
Click to expand...

I get that you aren’t having a go. I typed that all up then just decided it wasn’t really worth the arguments it would cause.

My old 14.3hh Welsh d x went between 480-500kgs so by the 20% rule he could carry up to 96kgs. That’s 15st. My friends 16.2/3hh BWB is 610kgs so can carry up to 122kgs. That’s 19st. So it is very vague and age/type/fitness dependant.


----------



## ihatework (15 April 2021)

God I hate the 20% rule. It’s not even a rule based on any objective science as far as I can tell. I really think there are very few horses out there who can carry that regularly without causing them harm. Strong boned, short coupled, well muscled, fit, sound and with a perfectly fitting saddle and a good balanced rider maybe. But that rarely happens.


----------



## ozpoz (15 April 2021)

There is no 20% rule!!
15% is more realistic. And less is much better for the horse.


----------



## Michen (15 April 2021)

ozpoz said:



			There is no 20% rule!!
15% is more realistic. And less is much better for the horse.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, I wonder how many horses are actually carrying that. Very few I bet. Take a 420-430kg 15hh connie like mine (of which I see many a chunky rider on).. that would be 9 stone 9 pounds without tack.

That's actually pretty slim for someone who is say, 5"6/5 "7. At 9 stone I look overly thin.

Quite horrifying really.


----------



## ester (15 April 2021)

I suspect F did but he'd never been on any scales so it would be a guess from that POV.


----------



## ycbm (15 April 2021)

Birker2020 said:



			People can be very shallow and judgey and NEVER offer me a ride on their horses, they just look at me and I know...
		
Click to expand...

They aren't being shallow, B,  or judgey of you, they are being judgey about whether they are prepared to have their horse carry your weight.  I have never owned a horse I would have been happy to invite to ride by someone who weighs over 18 stone with the saddle. I wouldn't be judging you about that,  just my horse.
.


----------



## ycbm (15 April 2021)

ozpoz said:



			There is no 20% rule!!
15% is more realistic. And less is much better for the horse.
		
Click to expand...


I agree 15% is my top for any horse,  less for the young, green, old, injured but recovered, and not very well put together.

I also use 1.5lbs per square inch of panel that sits on the horse as a top limit.  I think that one at least has been scientifically proven.
.


----------



## ester (15 April 2021)

I was pushing 17st last summer (medication/mental health stuff mostly - I was still fit), I self imposed a riding ban (though didnt' have my own anyway) so that I didn't put anyone in the awkward position of saying no - and also though 1 or 2 of them might have said yes it didn't matter to me it did, I'd crossed the line I'd happily get on something. 
It's been a slog, I've had to have quite a bit of help. I started riding again sub 14.5 st as a friend nearby had something suitable. 

I did get asked by my PT why my aim was X by Y - I said well that's the usual RS limit and the weather will be getting better by then


----------



## AandK (15 April 2021)

If it makes me "shallow and judgy" to not want someone 17st plus riding my horse, then so be it. I'm more concerned about his welfare than what other people think about me...

ETA, the 20% rule would mean 17st would be okay on this horse, he is a 16hh ex flat racer... Nope!!


----------



## Michen (15 April 2021)

ycbm said:



			I agree 15% is my top for any horse,  less for the young, green, old, injured but recovered, and not very well put together.

I also use 1.5lbs per square inch of panel that sits on the horse as a top limit.  I think that one at least has been scientifically proven.
.
		
Click to expand...

Hanging my head in shame as I'm at 16% without tack! Putting down the bagel...


----------



## stormox (15 April 2021)

The Household Cavalry's full uniform weighs around 4 stone - add this to the weight of a tall man for the duration of a state occasion or a parade.....surely this should be considered a lot more wear and tear on the horse than an average large overweight rider pootling around for half an hour or so?


----------



## ycbm (15 April 2021)

Michen said:



			Hanging my head in shame as I'm at 16% without tack! Putting down the bagel...
		
Click to expand...

You should take yourself in hand immediately and flagellate yourself with a hunting whip 🤣  Ride naked, that would get you back in limits 😁 ?


----------



## Annagain (15 April 2021)

The issue with the 20% rule is that it doesn't take a horse's type into account and unless people have access to a weighbridge, they're guesstimating at best. 

We had a weighbridge at our camp a while back and as a little fundraising thing afterwards I took side on confo type photos of 10 random horses and put them all together in a poster with a little bit of blurb with each horse's height, breed  and age. People them paid £2 to guess the weight of the horses and there were prizes for the closest to the total weight. Although it wasn't meant to be, it turned out to be quite an interesting experiment. Generally people over estimated the weight of TB types and underestimated the weight of more cobby types. Many of the horses were around the 550kg mark but they ranged from a 14hh heavy cob to a very slight 16.2hh TB. I know which of those two I'd rather put 110kg on. 

Even with my two oldies who are very similar types and weights, (obviously when they were both fit and sound, they're both currently carrying 0kg!)  I'd be happier putting more weight on Archie than Monty. Archie's actually the lighter of the two at about 650kg fighting fit to Monty's 670kg but he's much shorter backed, wider shouldered, deeper girthed with nearly an extra inch of bone than Mont who is long backed (and necked) with a huge backside but puny legs. Having said that, there's no way I'd would have put 20 - 21 stone on either of them which is what the 20% rule suggests. I suspect Charlie's a similar weight but I wouldn't put anywhere near as much on him at the moment as he's still a bit gangly and needs to fill out. When he's done though, I think he could carry more than they did - not that he will.


----------



## Michen (15 April 2021)

ycbm said:



			You should take yourself in hand immediately and flagellate yourself with a hunting whip 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I am going to! This throws some really interesting conversations up though. Me on Boggle recently, I don’t think most people would look at that pic and think that’s a rider that’s over weight for this horse. But the reality is I am over 15% and probably more towards 17% including clothing and tack.

Weight can be very deceptive. I would have had no idea if I hadn’t been made to get on the scales.

A lesson I won’t forget!

I really do want that 4th Bagel though


----------



## ihatework (15 April 2021)

stormox said:



			The Household Cavalry's full uniform weighs around 4 stone - add this to the weight of a tall man for the duration of a state occasion or a parade.....surely this should be considered a lot more wear and tear on the horse than an average large overweight rider pootling around for half an hour or so?
		
Click to expand...

How frequently are state occasions and how often is your rider pootling?
Is you pootling horse as fit as the HC ones?
Is your pootling rider as balanced as the HC ones?

weird comparison


----------



## AandK (15 April 2021)

stormox said:



			The Household Cavalry's full uniform weighs around 4 stone - add this to the weight of a tall man for the duration of a state occasion or a parade.....surely this should be considered a lot more wear and tear on the horse than an average large overweight rider pootling around for half an hour or so?
		
Click to expand...

I'd hazard a guess that the Household Cavalry have horses and tack appropriate to the size and weight of their riders, as well as the horses and riders being fit to do the job. Your average overweight rider pootling around is not as likely to be on a fit, well conditioned horse if they are only pootling for half an hour or so.


----------



## ycbm (15 April 2021)

stormox said:



			The Household Cavalry's full uniform weighs around 4 stone - add this to the weight of a tall man for the duration of a state occasion or a parade.....surely this should be considered a lot more wear and tear on the horse than an average large overweight rider pootling around for half an hour or so?
		
Click to expand...


Two wrongs .....

Just because they can .....

Etc. 

There's no getting away from it,  is there,  horses weren't designed to be sat on at all, never mind to carry 20%of their own bodyweight that way.


----------



## ycbm (15 April 2021)

Michen said:



			I am going to! This throws some really interesting conversations up though. Me on Boggle recently, I don’t think most people would look at that pic and think that’s a rider that’s over weight for this horse. But the reality is I am over 15% and probably more towards 17% including clothing and tack.

Weight can be very deceptive. I would have had no idea if I hadn’t been made to get on the scales.

A lesson I won’t forget!

I really do want that 4th Bagel though 

View attachment 69921

Click to expand...

Nobody would realise,  you look great.  I do think you can afford to take account of the fact that you also run your horses nicely lean.  So there's at least 10kg spare that they aren't carrying of their own fat that other horses are.
.


----------



## Annagain (15 April 2021)

AandK said:



			I'd hazard a guess that the Household Cavalry have horses and tack appropriate to the size and weight of their riders, as well as the horses and riders being fit to do the job. Your average overweight rider pootling around is not as likely to be on a fit, well conditioned horse if they are only pootling for half an hour or so.
		
Click to expand...

I also imagine the HC has quite a strict weight limit and isn't afraid to monitor it. I know the police do and considering the size and type of horse they ride, it's a fair bit lower than most people would expect.


----------



## Michen (15 April 2021)

ycbm said:



			Nobody would realise,  you look great.  I do think you can afford to take account of the fact that you also run your horses nicely lean.  So there at least 10kg spare that they aren't carrying on their own fat that other horses are.
.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks, black clothing hides a multitude of sins...

True and they are kept very fit with lots of hacking and hills. So I'm not going to immediately stop riding them now I've discovered the weight. But this thread has really helped motivate me to do something about it.

And hopefully it will motivate others to get on the scales and do the same, we owe it to our horses to all be honest about ourselves.


----------



## tallyho! (15 April 2021)

Very interesting article I read a while ago which changed my mind from the absolute rule of 20%, to being between 20-15% taking into account the horses’ healthy fit weight, not the flabby fair-weather hobby horse weight.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/equusmagazine.com/.amp/horse-care/weight_carry_062608

https://horse-canada.com/magazine/rider-health/size-matters/

Really, the 20% should only be applied to a horse that is fit and at its optimum weight for its size.
So, Birker, I admire you for posting those photos of you and your fab horse... he looks fit and at an ideal weight for his size which could be 650-700kg and you are 17.5stone which is 111kg so puts you at around the 17% mark.


----------



## Elf On A Shelf (15 April 2021)

Annagain said:



			The issue with the 20% rule is that it doesn't take a horse's type into account and unless people have access to a weighbridge, they're guesstimating at best.

We had a weighbridge at our camp a while back and as a little fundraising thing afterwards I took side on confo type photos of 10 random horses and put them all together in a poster with a little bit of blurb with each horse's height, breed  and age. People them paid £2 to guess the weight of the horses and there were prizes for the closest to the total weight. Although it wasn't meant to be, it turned out to be quite an interesting experiment. Generally people over estimated the weight of TB types and underestimated the weight of more cobby types. Many of the horses were around the 550kg mark but they ranged from a 14hh heavy cob to a very slight 16.2hh TB. I know which of those two I'd rather put 110kg on.

Even with my two oldies who are very similar types and weights, (obviously when they were both fit and sound, they're both currently carrying 0kg!)  I'd be happier putting more weight on Archie than Monty. Archie's actually the lighter of the two at about 650kg fighting fit to Monty's 670kg but he's much shorter backed, wider shouldered, deeper girthed with nearly an extra inch of bone than Mont who is long backed (and necked) with a huge backside but puny legs. Having said that, there's no way I'd would have put 20 - 21 stone on either of them which is what the 20% rule suggests. I suspect Charlie's a similar weight but I wouldn't put anywhere near as much on him at the moment as he's still a bit gangly and needs to fill out. When he's done though, I think he could carry more than they did - not that he will.
		
Click to expand...

No one can truly guess the weight of the racehorses with much accuracy either. It's quite entertaining to see them try though! We have a weigh bridge that every horse goes on on a Monday so we know what they weigh all season.


----------



## palo1 (15 April 2021)

Michen said:



			I am going to! This throws some really interesting conversations up though. Me on Boggle recently, I don’t think most people would look at that pic and think that’s a rider that’s over weight for this horse. But the reality is I am over 15% and probably more towards 17% including clothing and tack.

Weight can be very deceptive. I would have had no idea if I hadn’t been made to get on the scales.

A lesson I won’t forget!

I really do want that 4th Bagel though 

View attachment 69921

Click to expand...

I always think you look very compatible with your two horses @Michen!


----------



## Elf On A Shelf (15 April 2021)

Let's play guess the weight:


----------



## Michen (15 April 2021)

palo1 said:



			I always think you look very compatible with your two horses @Michen!
		
Click to expand...

Thanks! Makes it even worse than the maths says otherwise (if you prefer to be at 15% that is) but I won't take it for granted again!


----------



## palo1 (15 April 2021)

Michen said:



			Thanks! Makes it even worse than the maths says otherwise (if you prefer to be at 15% that is) but I won't take it for granted again!
		
Click to expand...

The struggle is real  I have struggled to maintain a 15% weight for a decade in order that my lightweight (pb arab) horse is ridden fairly.  He weighs 530-550 kg depending on the season etc.  At times it has been really difficult and I have thought about it a lot.  I have just about managed my weight or the horse's workload and he is in great shape.  BUT for my own health I am rather glad I have had this rather constant nagging pressure that is kind of quantifiable.  It has also helped me to think about why it is so difficult to talk about our weight/shape etc and I have realised that for me, the trick is to make the business of weight actually pretty impersonal.  I am not a better or worse person for being fat or thin, nor do I deny that life sometimes makes one or the other state more likely.  As a horse rider, weight is weight and I am at an acceptable riding weight or not.  I find that easier than worrying about what people think tbh.  That quantifiable weight also helps me to feel more objective about my weight and shape which is mentally much healthier than some other ways of dealing with social pressures to look a certain way or weigh a certain amount etc. 

Lately I have found a really good groove with my own dietary habits and am feeling the benefits in lots of ways.  Ironically my other horse - a young horse could potentially cope with a heavier me...I wouldn't want that as she is young and surely any horse benefits from a lighter weight?!!  

I do wonder how many equestrians see themselves as 'athletes' (snorting my tea out at the thought!) but we probably really should as that does bring with it a context around our bodies that may in some ways be far more healthy than other social stereotypes.  Sadly I am one of them folk that was born more cob than thoroughbred, more muscly than is entirely necessary and with decent cannon bones and pelvis and unneccessary amounts of bosom too    I am 5'7, a size 10/12, fit easily into size 28 jods but I weigh well - so I must keep an eye on those scales!  I have accepted that.  I wish there was a better conversation and way of discussing rider weights for those folk in distress about it; it would really be so much better for our horses.


----------



## smolmaus (15 April 2021)

palo1 said:



			It has also helped me to think about why it is so difficult to talk about our weight/shape etc and I have realised that for me, the trick is to make the business of weight actually pretty impersonal.  I am not a better or worse person for being fat or thin, nor do I deny that life sometimes makes one or the other state more likely.  

 I wish there was a better conversation and way of discussing rider weights for those folk in distress about it; it would really be so much better for our horses.
		
Click to expand...

Getting to this state of mind is, in my opinion, hard work but very worthy work. Not all the way there myself but absolutely something I am always aiming for. Wise post. 

And nothing sad about being a cobby type Palo! I'm more of a Shetland build myself but we all have our uses! We'll survive the endless winter that climate change is going to hand us anyway!


----------



## Rosemary28 (15 April 2021)

Putting my neck on the line here to say that at the moment I think I'm pushing 18 stone. Now, I have gained a lot of muscle since I started working with my PT, and my "weight" on the scales has actually increased, but I will not be getting on a horse until my weight is right down. I know it's going to take a long time but in the meantime I can drive P (he's only 11.2hh anyway!). And it is a really great goal to work towards because I really would love to start riding again so this is my motivation.

ETA I am definitely a "cob" type! My great-grandfather used to have a saying - "There's carthorses and racehorses, and you can't make a racehorse out of a carthorse". I'll never be a racehorse (just not built that way!) but I know I can get my weight down and be a bl00dy fit carthorse!


----------



## daffy44 (15 April 2021)

Michen I think you and your horse look slim, fit and fabulous!


----------



## Lipglosspukka (15 April 2021)

Elf On A Shelf said:



			Let's play guess the weight:

View attachment 69924
View attachment 69925

Click to expand...


Hard not knowing height but I'm gonna say 470kg and 440kg


----------



## palo1 (15 April 2021)

smolmaus said:



			Getting to this state of mind is, in my opinion, hard work but very worthy work. Not all the way there myself but absolutely something I am always aiming for. Wise post.

And nothing sad about being a cobby type Palo! I'm more of a Shetland build myself but we all have our uses! We'll survive the endless winter that climate change is going to hand us anyway!
		
Click to expand...

Thank you!  No, no problem being a good cob-type (increasingly a sporty cob so very marketable in fact lol!!) I am super cheap to keep too so yes ready to survive endless winters and hard work!   I think though that it has helped me to stay objective about having a somewhat more sturdy shape than fashion suggests is desirable when I know absolutely objectively that I can ride my wonderful and very sleek and sporty horse.  In fact, he looks how I would love to... I may not 'look' quite how I would like (endless legs, small boned, snake hipped - you know the thing?!) but my horse doesn't care about that as long as I am not putting a strain on him.  Looking at things from the point of view of what really matters to me (my horses) has been very liberating in that sense.  But I have had years to think my way round this.  I really do get how upsetting and difficult it might be to want to ride, to be a certain weight that makes that more tricky and have issues around self-esteem and the pressures that society puts on us to look a certain way.


----------



## palo1 (15 April 2021)

daffy44 said:



			Michen I think you and your horse look slim, fit and fabulous!
		
Click to expand...

I do too


----------



## brighteyes (15 April 2021)

ycbm said:



			horses weren't designed to be sat on at all
		
Click to expand...

This is a fact. Sadly for them, almost all of them are of a shape conducive to wearing the necessary equipment to facilitate it - unlike, say, cows. (I know there are a few that are ridden but seriously - they look and feel precarious to sit on)


Elf On A Shelf said:



			Let's play guess the weight:

View attachment 69924
View attachment 69925

Click to expand...

Come on, heights at the very least! I'll hazard 560 and 590


----------



## HollyWoozle (15 April 2021)

It is such an emotive subject as others have stated. I sometimes have to turn away bookings for riding holidays when people are over the weight limit (which is on the website but people miss it) and it's quite stressful when you don't want to upset anybody.

I do think the horse comes first of course, but I think I also have a different opinion to many posters here in that I firmly believe there are some horses who can comfortably carry 16 - 17st. I think it's really difficult to set a rule on it and that the individual horse and rider combination have to be taken into account... size, shape, fitness, experience, balance of both and what they will be doing. My partner found a riding school to accept him at 16st 4lbs and was well-matched with a horse who I am confident was able to carry him without any detriment to them. Whilst I do agree that weight is weight, whether it be muscle or fat on a person, I think there is a difference for a horse in carrying someone who is unfit and overweight compared to carrying someone of the same weight who is in proportion and fit and perhaps better able to carry/balance themselves.

I have full respect for anybody who sets a 'lower limit' for their horses and of course the lighter the rider, the better really and I acknowledge that. I do often see pairings where I firmly believe the rider is too heavy for their mount and I do find it upsetting, but equally I am sometimes shocked by some of the maximum weights people think riders should be. I like to think everyone should just use common sense but I'm not sure the human populace (myself included) really has much sometimes.

PS. I realise this is an old thread and also about riders 18st+ so I've essentially gone off on a tangent.


----------



## Elf On A Shelf (15 April 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Come on, heights at the very least! I'll hazard 560 and 590
		
Click to expand...

Sorry the height didn't cross my mind 😂😂 

17hh thoroughbred. It is actually the same horse 3 months apart, the lighter bay pic is when he came back from his owners after his holiday (and wasn't quite as fat as usual ...) and he tipped the scales at 620kg. The darker bay pic is because he had just had a full wash down and was wet. Weighing in race fit at around 560kg. He is a big boned lad, deep through the rib cage and Broad.


----------



## ester (15 April 2021)

HW it's ok we've all gone off on a tangent


----------



## brighteyes (15 April 2021)

Elf On A Shelf said:



			Sorry the height didn't cross my mind 😂😂

17hh thoroughbred. It is actually the same horse 3 months apart, the lighter bay pic is when he came back from his owners after his holiday (and wasn't quite as fat as usual ...) and he tipped the scales at 620kg. The darker bay pic is because he had just had a full wash down and was wet. Weighing in race fit at around 560kg. He is a big boned lad, deep through the rib cage and Broad.
		
Click to expand...

Cool! I was on the money with one!


----------



## Jeni the dragon (15 April 2021)

It's such an interesting discussion.  I'm not riding mine at the moment. Being furghloughed means my weight has rocketed, but I can honestly say I am struggling with it.
But I'm trying and I think it's all we can do.


----------



## palo1 (16 April 2021)

Jeni the dragon said:



			It's such an interesting discussion.  I'm not riding mine at the moment. Being furghloughed means my weight has rocketed, but I can honestly say I am struggling with it.
But I'm trying and I think it's all we can do.
		
Click to expand...

It can be very difficult I agree.  Things happen to all of us including weight gain or loss and that can coincide horribly with a hobby or lifestyle that includes horses.  We live in a society with an equine and human obesity crisis so there are systemic problems that as individuals we are going to struggle with; recommendations about what is actually a healthy diet, unlimited choice of food and lifestyle,  the processes of ageing (whether as an adolescent to adult or youngster to older person!) constant pressure from external sources about the way we look and how we deal with that; including pressure to accept ourselves as we are (when actually some folk really are struggling and don't want to accept the way they are right now  ).   We have pressure on us too about how we manage our horses, how we ride, the hierarchy of equine pursuits etc etc. No wonder it's blooming hard!!  

I have ridden my horse over the 15% guideline (with clothing and tack) and not realised and I have ridden the same horse over the 15% guideline and known that I am doing that.  I have tried to mitigate that though by accepting that being relatively close (when I am at a healthy weight) to a good weight for him means that I have to work harder at keeping him strong, that jumping is limited (thankfully he is not fussed about jumping bless him), that he is fit, has a really well fitted, appropriate saddle and that I keep a constant watch on my weight.  At times when it has been more difficult for me to maintain a good weight (bereavement, stress etc) I have ridden much less and done fun stuff on the ground; I have never walked away entirely thankfully!! That has usually been for a couple of weeks or a month or so.  I weigh myself regularly and that actually is reassuring as even when I think I am a bit on the heavy side, sometimes I am not and vice versa.  It took a long time for me to come to terms with this but now it feels like a comforting routine - knowing that no matter how I feel about myself, I know what is ok for riding and know where I am with that.  Often the two are entirely unrelated.  It also means that I don't feel uncomfortable around conversations regarding rider weight as I know that I am both doing my best and that I am within a safe weight for my horse.  Obviously it is a sensitive subject but for me it helps to have that knowledge.  I have never wanted to sell my horse so I have had to get to grips with it all and that has been really, really positive for me in other ways too.  From an entirely personal perspective to do with my health and vanity I am really glad that my horse has a relatively 'close' weight tolerance for me as a rider.  I don't want a horse that can carry enough for me to go wild with the cake!! I kind of appreciate the objective pressure to stay healthily slim to be honest.  

Clearly for anyone with really troubling feelings about their weight or around eating it is very difficult and that probably needs a different approach.


----------



## southerncomfort (16 April 2021)

Slightly off topic but I think it was IHW who mentioned the menopause above.

I thinks it's a shock when you've maintained a decent weight all your life to suddenly grow a big belly and pile on the pounds even though nothing has changed diet or exercise wise.

At 47 and having been slim and petite all my life I've suddenly got a bad case of middle age spread and have put on half a stone and I can't shift it for love nor money. I think it's worth acknowledging that losing weight as your heading towards menopause is really, really hard.

I was reading an article recently that explained that not only do women in perimenopause/menopause put on weight, but the body actually shifts this excess fat from the backside and redistributes it to the chest and belly (why???).  Wondering if this has a knock on effect to riding position/centre of gravity in the saddle, but don't think any studies have been done on this.

Perhaps not, as I think its possible to have a strong core AND wobbly belly.

Not sure where I'm going with this or what it adds to the discussion but it's just something I've been pondering.


----------



## palo1 (16 April 2021)

southerncomfort said:



			Slightly off topic but I think it was IHW who mentioned the menopause above.

I thinks it's a shock when you've maintained a decent weight all your life to suddenly grow a big belly and pile on the pounds even though nothing has changed diet or exercise wise.

At 47 and having been slim and petite all my life I've suddenly got a bad case of middle age spread and have put on half a stone and I can't shift it for love nor money. I think it's worth acknowledging that losing weight as your heading towards menopause is really, really hard.

I was reading an article recently that explained that not only do women in perimenopause/menopause put on weight, but the body actually shifts this excess fat from the backside and redistributes it to the chest and belly (why???).  Wondering if this has a knock on effect to riding position/centre of gravity in the saddle, but don't think any studies have been done on this.

Perhaps not, as I think its possible to have a strong core AND wobbly belly.

Not sure where I'm going with this or what it adds to the discussion but it's just something I've been pondering.
		
Click to expand...

I think it is really helpful to talk about all of these things.  When we are all uncomfortable about the issue of discussing rider weights then everything needs to be in the mix and for people whose bodies are changing for one reason or another I reckon it's good to open the discussion.  Weight gain or loss can come from so many different places and can take people by surprise so that they end up lighter or heavier than they may ever have thought.


----------



## palo1 (16 April 2021)

I have just seen this: http://www.exmoorponytrekking.co.uk...hp_FE6fs4CS5Zm-nHAG4eJZlmC5NTw0zuxyR0Yvcilq34

The page says ''Please note we have a strict weight limit of 11.5 stone (73kg). All riders over 12 years old will be asked to step on the scales, as each of our ponies have their own individual weight limit.''  

Exies are lovely strong though not usually hugely tall ponies and this weight limit seems pretty sensible to me. I guess the centre adds the weight of tack.  It is good to see the statement so clearly too.   At 5'7 I would certainly want the tallest possibly Exmoor as would feel somewhat underhorsed at 13.2!


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (16 April 2021)

palo1 said:



			I have just seen this: http://www.exmoorponytrekking.co.uk...hp_FE6fs4CS5Zm-nHAG4eJZlmC5NTw0zuxyR0Yvcilq34

The page says ''Please note we have a strict weight limit of 11.5 stone (73kg). All riders over 12 years old will be asked to step on the scales, as each of our ponies have their own individual weight limit.''

Exies are lovely strong though not usually hugely tall ponies and this weight limit seems pretty sensible to me. I guess the centre adds the weight of tack.  It is good to see the statement so clearly too.   At 5'7 I would certainly want the tallest possibly Exmoor as would feel somewhat underhorsed at 13.2!
		
Click to expand...

Even being under that weight I wouldn’t book anywhere that would ask people to step on scales. I understand that they are running a business however I just think that fat shaming people is horrific, having been fat shamed most of my life despite being fit and healthy and a size ten in clothes for a lot of it, my curvy hour glass shape doesn’t help and I always look heavier than I am. I personally think private horses don’t require such a strict limit, I also think rider balance plays a part. It’s not a popular view but hey ho. I always kept my horses fit so me carrying a little extra never hurt them. My boy was still happy and sound just before he was PTS at a rather advanced age and had carried me at my heaviest without issue. Of course it’s better being lighter for them and for your own health but I don’t think people should be made to feel horrid over it, neither should they feel like they must be horrid to themselves.

I am heavier now due to medical issues but having shed 2.5st since beg of Jan I’m beginning to feel like myself. Just another 2.5st to go.  I have attached a pic of me when I was being called fat a few years ago. The dress is a size 10petite (short girl problems) unless you have been constantly told you’re fat by even your own family you won’t understand how it feels for people to ask you to step on scales.


----------



## palo1 (16 April 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			Even being under that weight I wouldn’t book anywhere that would ask people to step on scales. I understand that they are running a business however I just think that fat shaming people is horrific, having been fat shamed most of my life despite being fit and healthy and a size ten in clothes for a lot of it, my curvy hour glass shape doesn’t help and I always look heavier than I am. I personally think private horses don’t require such a strict limit, I also think rider balance plays a part. It’s not a popular view but hey ho. I always kept my horses fit so me carrying a little extra never hurt them. My boy was still happy and sound just before he was PTS at a rather advanced age and had carried me at my heaviest without issue. Of course it’s better being lighter for them and for your own health but I don’t think people should be made to feel horrid over it, neither should they feel like they must be horrid to themselves.

I am heavier now due to medical issues but having shed 2.5st since beg of Jan I’m beginning to feel like myself. Just another 2.5st to go.  I have attached a pic of me when I was being called fat a few years ago. The dress is a size 10petite (short girl problems) unless you have been constantly told you’re fat by even your own family you won’t understand how it feels for people to ask you to step on scales.
		
Click to expand...

You look amazing!  I am really sorry you have been made to feel badly and I agree that fat shaming is horrible - emotionally destructive and totally counter-productive.  It is great that you are starting to feel like yourself again.  I have much sympathy too also being an hour-glass, curvy sort of shape that weighs in rather well!


----------



## CanteringCarrot (16 April 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			Even being under that weight I wouldn’t book anywhere that would ask people to step on scales. I understand that they are running a business however I just think that fat shaming people is horrific, having been fat shamed most of my life despite being fit and healthy and a size ten in clothes for a lot of it, my curvy hour glass shape doesn’t help and I always look heavier than I am. I personally think private horses don’t require such a strict limit, I also think rider balance plays a part. It’s not a popular view but hey ho. I always kept my horses fit so me carrying a little extra never hurt them. My boy was still happy and sound just before he was PTS at a rather advanced age and had carried me at my heaviest without issue. Of course it’s better being lighter for them and for your own health but I don’t think people should be made to feel horrid over it, neither should they feel like they must be horrid to themselves.

I am heavier now due to medical issues but having shed 2.5st since beg of Jan I’m beginning to feel like myself. Just another 2.5st to go.  I have attached a pic of me when I was being called fat a few years ago. The dress is a size 10petite (short girl problems) unless you have been constantly told you’re fat by even your own family you won’t understand how it feels for people to ask you to step on scales.
		
Click to expand...

That's not fat shaming to me. They're doing it for the welfare and well-being of their ponies.

If you read the rules ahead of time, you can just weigh yourself in private. If you're over their limit, then don't go there.

I'm sure they're not having people step on a scale with a huge display and announcing people's weight via megaphone. 

I think establishing a weight limit and "enforcing it" is fine when it's for the animal.


----------



## smolmaus (16 April 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			Even being under that weight I wouldn’t book anywhere that would ask people to step on scales. I understand that they are running a business however I just think that fat shaming people is horrific, having been fat shamed all my life despite being fit and healthy and a size ten in clothes my curvy hour glass shape doesn’t help and I always look heavier than I am. I personally think private horses don’t require such a strict limit, I also think rider balance plays a part. It’s not a popular view but hey ho. I always kept my horses fit so me carrying a little extra never hurt them. My boy was still happy and sound just before he was PTS at a rather advanced age and had carried me at my heaviest without issue. Of course it’s better being lighter for them and for your own health but I don’t think people should be made to feel horrid over it, neither should they feel like they must be horrid to themselves.

I am heavier now due to medical issues but having shed 2.5st since beg of Jan I’m beginning to feel like myself. Just another 2.5st to go.  I have attached a pic of me when I was being called fat a few years ago. The dress is a size 10petite (short girl problems) unless you have been constantly told you’re fat by even your own family you won’t understand how it feels for people to ask you to step on scales.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I was asked to step on scales at the first place I went to after my long break from riding, having been at the same stables since I was 7 previously I had NO IDEA that was even a thing so it took me a bit by surprise. I wasn't long out of the Dark Place RE: my eating habits and it wasn't a nice experience. Of course I just put a smile on and tried not to think about it too much, they had no idea it would be any sort of trigger for me so they can't be blamed. The school had no intention of shaming me at all of course, everyone gets weighed, they don't single anybody out and it's just a practical thing but that didn't make it any easier on my poor broken brain! 

You look class in that dress! I feel like it's been in my online basket before tbh, which isn't that unlikely seeing how limited the petite options usually are 😂


CanteringCarrot said:



			That's not fat shaming to me. They're doing it for the welfare and well-being of their ponies.

If you read the rules ahead of time, you can just weigh yourself in private. If you're over their limit, then don't go there.

I'm sure they're not having people step on a scale with a huge display and announcing people's weight via megaphone.

I think establishing a weight limit and "enforcing it" is fine when it's for the animal.
		
Click to expand...

It's an unfortunate part of a sh*tty fatphobic society tbh, the riding school aren't doing anything wrong but it doesn't mean it can't be hurtful.


----------



## Tiddlypom (16 April 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			Even being under that weight I wouldn’t book anywhere that would ask people to step on scales. I understand that they are running a business however I just think that fat shaming people is horrific
		
Click to expand...

Ok, so go somewhere that doesn't weigh their riders 🤷‍♀️. I look at riding centres that are prepared to weigh riders (Adventure Clydesdales in Devon do the same, but their weight limits are higher) and think 'Good for them'. It's published on their website, so no need for anyone to be taken by surprise.

Pussy footing about overweight would be riders and their feelings must not impact on the horses. If an overweight (for the horse) rider turns up, then they need to be turned away.

It is not fat shaming to have a strict weight limit for a horse riding business. If you cant do the weight (just weigh yourself at home first), then don't book, simples.


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (16 April 2021)

That’s a shame SM that they blind sided you with that. I’d have walked personally. As I said in my above post I wouldn’t book anywhere that asked me to do that even if I knew I was well below the limit.

Was a next dress I think 🤔 so probably was lol theirs and DPs petite range were my go to 😃


----------



## CanteringCarrot (16 April 2021)

smolmaus said:



			Yeah I was asked to step on scales at the first place I went to after my long break from riding, having been at the same stables since I was 7 previously I had NO IDEA that was even a thing so it took me a bit by surprise. I wasn't long out of the Dark Place RE: my eating habits and it wasn't a nice experience. Of course I just put a smile on and tried not to think about it too much, they had no idea it would be any sort of trigger for me so they can't be blamed. The school had no intention of shaming me at all of course, everyone gets weighed, they don't single anybody out and it's just a practical thing but that didn't make it any easier on my poor broken brain!

You look class in that dress! I feel like it's been in my online basket before tbh, which isn't that unlikely seeing how limited the petite options usually are 😂

It's an unfortunate part of a sh*tty fatphobic society tbh, the riding school aren't doing anything wrong but it doesn't mean it can't be hurtful.
		
Click to expand...

How is not wanting to put too heavy of a rider on your ponies part of a "fatphobic society"

I am not arguing that the fatphobic society doesn't exist, just that I don't think they're part of it.

Yes, it could be hurtful to some, but a lot of things could be hurtful to some.

My horse is not a good weight carrier, I've literally seen this when my OH (also a rider) hoped on him just to see if it could work.  He is well balanced and doesn't interfere much with the horse, but his sheer weight was just too much. There was a visible change in my horses posture and way of going. He's not a weak horse, but has a limit regardless. So I can understand limits regarding weight. 

But what is the place to do in order to not he hurtful? They're either hurtful to their ponies or potentially hurtful toward some people. 

I am not dismissing anyone's feelings or hurt.


----------



## hollyandivy123 (16 April 2021)

Michen said:



			I am going to! This throws some really interesting conversations up though. Me on Boggle recently, I don’t think most people would look at that pic and think that’s a rider that’s over weight for this horse. But the reality is I am over 15% and probably more towards 17% including clothing and tack.

Weight can be very deceptive. I would have had no idea if I hadn’t been made to get on the scales.

A lesson I won’t forget!

I really do want that 4th Bagel though 

View attachment 69921

Click to expand...

possible option for the fourth bagel would be to go bare back...........saves the weight of the saddle and possibly opens up the opportunity of a biscuit with a cup of tea?


----------



## smolmaus (16 April 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			How is not wanting to put too heavy of a rider on your ponies part of a "fatphobic society"

I am not arguing that the fatphobic society doesn't exist, just that I don't think they're part of it.

Yes, it could be hurtful to some, but a lot of things could be hurtful to some.

My horse is not a good weight carrier, I've literally seen this when my OH (also a rider) hoped on him just to see if it could work.  He is well balanced and doesn't interfere much with the horse, but his sheer weight was just too much. There was a visible change in my horses posture and way of going. He's not a weak horse, but has a limit regardless. So I can understand limits regarding weight.

But what is the place to do in order to not he hurtful? They're either hurtful to their ponies or potentially hurtful toward some people.

I am not dismissing anyone's feelings or hurt.
		
Click to expand...

You misunderstood, I meant the fact it will be hurtful to some people is a result of society's general fatphobia. If Cheeky Chestnut or myself or any number of people hadn't been damaged by it already then being weighed wouldn't have any negative feelings attached to it at all. And really it shouldn't! I did specifically say the school were doing nothing wrong so I rather feel like you've misunderstood me on purpose there. 


Cheeky Chestnut said:



			That’s a shame SM that they blind sided you with that. I’d have walked personally. As I said in my above post I wouldn’t book anywhere that asked me to do that even if I knew I was well below the limit.

Was a next dress I think 🤔 so probably was lol theirs and DPs petite range were my go to 😃
		
Click to expand...

I was absolutely desperate to put my butt in a saddle, nothing was going to stop me 😂 It nearly ended up better that way tbh, if I had thought about it and realised of course they were probably going to weigh me I might have let it stop me going and that would have been a bigger shame in the long run. 

My go-to's as well! Next for nice dresses, DP for work dresses 😁


----------



## CanteringCarrot (16 April 2021)

smolmaus said:



			You misunderstood, I meant the fact it will be hurtful to some people is a result of society's general fatphobia. If Cheeky Chestnut or myself or any number of people hadn't been damaged by it already then being weighed wouldn't have any negative feelings attached to it at all. And really it shouldn't! I did specifically say the school were doing nothing wrong so I rather feel like you've misunderstood me on purpose there.

I was absolutely desperate to put my butt in a saddle, nothing was going to stop me 😂 It nearly ended up better that way tbh, if I had thought about it and realised of course they were probably going to weigh me I might have let it stop me going and that would have been a bigger shame in the long run.

My go-to's as well! Next for nice dresses, DP for work dresses 😁
		
Click to expand...

Ah, I see what you're saying there. That makes sense.

I DID NOT purposely misunderstand you. How strange. But thanks.


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (16 April 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			How is not wanting to put too heavy of a rider on your ponies part of a "fatphobic society"

I am not arguing that the fatphobic society doesn't exist, just that I don't think they're part of it.

Yes, it could be hurtful to some, but a lot of things could be hurtful to some.

My horse is not a good weight carrier, I've literally seen this when my OH (also a rider) hoped on him just to see if it could work.  He is well balanced and doesn't interfere much with the horse, but his sheer weight was just too much. There was a visible change in my horses posture and way of going. He's not a weak horse, but has a limit regardless. So I can understand limits regarding weight.

But what is the place to do in order to not he hurtful? They're either hurtful to their ponies or potentially hurtful toward some people.

I am not dismissing anyone's feelings or hurt.
		
Click to expand...

not a go at you personally. 

Someone chosing not to allow a heavier person on Their personal horse is their choice completely. Condemning people for riding their own at more than the perfect weight or for buying one when at more than the perfect weight is something else entirely.

Businesses may do what they wish with their horses, nobody is contesting that fact. I personally just wouldn’t go anywhere that asked me to step on scales. The welfare of our horses is our priority, however you don’t know how someone else is caring for their horse. That heavier rider that you may be saying shouldn’t be riding may be having regular checks done on the horse, may have had a made to measure saddle fitted, horse could be better looked after than your own in that regard.

Clearly everyone has differing opinions but unless you are all up in everyone’s business then judging people by weight alone isn’t fair.  16st of heavy female is the same as 16st of lean male but the latter will always be acceptable due to the picture it presents.


----------



## Rosemary28 (16 April 2021)

smolmaus said:



			You misunderstood, I meant the fact it will be hurtful to some people is a result of society's general fatphobia. If Cheeky Chestnut or myself or any number of people hadn't been damaged by it already then being weighed wouldn't have any negative feelings attached to it at all.
		
Click to expand...

This resonates with me hugely. I was called fat by my family when I was a size 12, so imagine what they said when I hit size 22...


----------



## Kat (16 April 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Ok, so go somewhere that doesn't weigh their riders 🤷‍♀️. I look at riding centres that are prepared to weigh riders (Adventure Clydesdales in Devon do the same, but their weight limits are higher) and think 'Good for them'. It's published on their website, so no need for anyone to be taken by surprise.

Pussy footing about overweight would be riders and their feelings must not impact on the horses. If an overweight (for the horse) rider turns up, then they need to be turned away.

It is not fat shaming to have a strict weight limit for a horse riding business. If you cant do the weight (just weigh yourself at home first), then don't book, simples.
		
Click to expand...

I did weigh myself at home (regularly) before signing up for a course at an equine college with a weight limit. I declared my weight honestly before it started.  However your weight can vary day to day and depending upon what you have eaten, water retention, the time of the month, when you last went to the toilet etc. Then add in the variables of exactly what clothes you are wearing. Then consider the accuracy and calibration of different scales. 

I came in over the weight limit and it was horrible having that discussion. Especially as actually they had plenty of big horses capable of carrying my weight and much higher, it felt like I was being told I was too fat to ride the huge ID type horses I could see. I wasn't even overweight at that weight for my height. 

They allowed me to do the course anyway and didn't weigh me again during the course, just gave me the larger horses (I'm tall so needed them anyway). 

I fully understand the reasons for having weight limits but I wonder how that would have affected a 16yr old signing up for a college course. 

I don't know what the answer is, just posting an experience.


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (16 April 2021)

palo1 said:



			You look amazing!  I am really sorry you have been made to feel badly and I agree that fat shaming is horrible - emotionally destructive and totally counter-productive.  It is great that you are starting to feel like yourself again.  I have much sympathy too also being an hour-glass, curvy sort of shape that weighs in rather well!
		
Click to expand...

Its hard isn’t it! No maxi dress in the world fits me without taking about 5 inches off the bottom 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## ihatework (16 April 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			That’s a shame SM that they blind sided you with that. I’d have walked personally. As I said in my above post I wouldn’t book anywhere that asked me to do that even if I knew I was well below the limit.

Was a next dress I think 🤔 so probably was lol theirs and DPs petite range were my go to 😃
		
Click to expand...

Whereas I would see it as a positive, although would also hate standing on the scales.

But if I’m paying to ride a horse I want a well looked after one who isn’t stale from having to lump around riders too heavy for them. People lie or genuinely don’t know what they weigh. And as we have seen from this thread it’s not always easy for a third party to tell just by looking.


----------



## CanteringCarrot (16 April 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			not a go at you personally.

Someone chosing not to allow a heavier person on Their personal horse is their choice completely. Condemning people for riding their own at more than the perfect weight or for buying one when at more than the perfect weight is something else entirely.

Businesses may do what they wish with their horses, nobody is contesting that fact. I personally just wouldn’t go anywhere that asked me to step on scales. The welfare of our horses is our priority, however you don’t know how someone else is caring for their horse. That heavier rider that you may be saying shouldn’t be riding may be having regular checks done on the horse, may have had a made to measure saddle fitted, horse could be better looked after than your own in that regard.

Clearly everyone has differing opinions but unless you are all up in everyone’s business then judging people by weight alone isn’t fair.  16st of heavy female is the same as 16st of lean male but the latter will always be acceptable due to the picture it presents.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I did not get into the subject of people and their personal horses and/or potential personal horses. If horse and rider are sound and happy, condemning them is ridiculous.

I am not even going there.


----------



## TPO (16 April 2021)

It's not fat shaming; as said above its animal welfare.

Where does this sense of entitlement that if someone wants to ride they should regardless of their weight come from?

I'm 5ft5, fat and ugly. Should I get to be a model just because I want to despite not meeting any of the criteria? I don't meet the criteria but perhaps I could be a surgeon? Who cares if its detrimental to the patient if *I* want to it.

Gravity dictates that, on earth under normal circumstances, X stone is X stone. As force = mass x acceleration then an X stone unbalanced rider may exert a greater force on the horse if they are bouncing about out of balance. However that doesnt make an X stone rider any lighter just because they feel that they are balanced.

Places that weigh riders should be commended for taking the welfare of the animal into consideration and ensuring that a rider is assigned to a horse that can comfortably carry them.

Previously when I've been a healthy or slight overweight weight people have seriously underestimated my weight and been shocked to find it out. Not so much this time as lockdown has undeniably unleashed the blob! That's why you cant use your eye and scales are required.

Theres an account on Instagram (erika_slimming world) who made like a collage of 11st women to show that weight doesnt look the same on everyone. Obviously height plays a big part but even women of the same height carried their weight so differently they disnt look like they could possibly weigh the same. That why scales are required.

Like I said I'm overweight so for now I wont ride mine until I lose 2st. As someone else said my balance/centre of gravity goes to pot when I'm overweight too. My horse is sharp and fast so I need to be able to hold myself and I'm just  not as good at riding when I have all this fat around me. 

He's a QH so when I answer questions about why I'm not riding I get told "oh but big men compete them" (some of the reining pairings 😬) or "they're ridden all day by cowboys". I appreciate than half an hour of carrying my lard about wont cause him to drop to his knees and pop his clogs but stress and damage builds up from the minute we sit on them regardless of if it's an 8st or 18st rider.

I dont understand the mentality that because X is worse then it's ok for me to do Y, which isnt great but not as bad as X.

Obviously I feel for anyone who had gained weight due to a life change and/or medical issue. I know that while losing weight is simple it's not always easy. If it was easy everyone would do it and there would be no diet culture or fat shaming for starters. But really the horse has to come first in every instance and above any human desires, wants or sense of entitlement to do as they please regardless of the consequences on another being


----------



## Hanno Verian (16 April 2021)

stormox said:



			The Household Cavalry's full uniform weighs around 4 stone - add this to the weight of a tall man for the duration of a state occasion or a parade.....surely this should be considered a lot more wear and tear on the horse than an average large overweight rider pootling around for half an hour or so?
		
Click to expand...

I know this one has been done to death but HHC horses are extremely fit, they are under a high degree of veterinary supervision, on parade they will be only in Walk/Trot on level suraces as previously mentioned both horse and rider are closely monitored and rarely carry the full weight. They have an active working life full of variety and are retired into a second career when it becomes too much for them.

People are talking about Knights/cavalrymen in armour as a comparisson, people were smaller then and generally leaner than they are today a knight/cavalryman would only be mounted in full armour for a short period of time when there was an expectation of battle, this armour although heavy is not as heavy as people think, in a battle the horses energy would be conserved they would walk and trot, only breaking into a full charge at the very last minute. Unfortunately war horses lives where short they where a disposable commodity, when they reached the end of their usefullness they were eaten. They certainly werent expected to jump round a course of fences or go XC carrying full battle load. I would like to think that we have better welfare standards now than then and that we want our horses to have as long and happy a working life as possible rather than break them and discard them.

I appreciate that there are a lot of reasons for people carrying more weight than they should/would ideally, I'm 6' I weigh just on 14st I'm working to get my weight down by a stone because I worry that my 16.3 Warmblood X Irish SH is carrying too much in me and know that it will benefit both of us. If I gained weight to an unacceptable level I would stop riding and work hard to lose it before restarting riding for my horses sake.


----------



## Annagain (16 April 2021)

I really think we need to separate being heavy from being fat both in general and especially when it comes to horses. Many international rugby players  - some of the fittest sportspeople around in terms of strength and stamina - are morbidly obese according to BMI but they're not fat.  I know it's an emotive issue and that weight and fat has been linked for so long as one can be a measure of another but they don't mean the same thing. I think some of it has been borne out of people not wanting to use the word "fat" so substituting it with "heavy", "curvy", "big" when it's possible to be all of these without being fat and it's possible to be fat without being any of those.

When it comes to horses, weight is the issue, not fat.  I've recently lost 3 1/2 stone. I was fat before, but because my boys are big chunks, I was never too heavy for them. Equally, I would never be able to ride a small pony even now, as despite not being fat any more (well, a lot less fat than I was) I am still (and will always be) too heavy. That isn't a personal failure on my part, it's just biology.


----------



## Mildlander (16 April 2021)

I wouldn't want to fat shame anyone but riding schools weighing clients makes sense to me for animal welfare - but they should make it clear before you get there.
It's not just riding schools I did the mile long zip wire in Wales - everyone was weighed as they have to make sure that it's safe, over the weigh limit you can't go, if you're light they add weight to you to make sure you get down, getting heavier they put a sail on you to slow you up - if you don't get weighed you don't get to go on the zip wire - funnily enough no one was complaining about that.


----------



## palo1 (16 April 2021)

smolmaus said:



			Yeah I was asked to step on scales at the first place I went to after my long break from riding, having been at the same stables since I was 7 previously I had NO IDEA that was even a thing so it took me a bit by surprise. I wasn't long out of the Dark Place RE: my eating habits and it wasn't a nice experience. Of course I just put a smile on and tried not to think about it too much, they had no idea it would be any sort of trigger for me so they can't be blamed. The school had no intention of shaming me at all of course, everyone gets weighed, they don't single anybody out and it's just a practical thing but that didn't make it any easier on my poor broken brain!

You look class in that dress! I feel like it's been in my online basket before tbh, which isn't that unlikely seeing how limited the petite options usually are 😂

It's an unfortunate part of a sh*tty fatphobic society tbh, the riding school aren't doing anything wrong but it doesn't mean it can't be hurtful.
		
Click to expand...

I hope you don't mind me challenging that word 'hurtful' as that sounds kind of personal; I think weighing in can be difficult in that situation but not hurtful. Sorry to be pedantic! The thing is that there is a real difference between weighing as part of a policy for animal health and weighing yourself for personal or medical reasons.  I know that the two can collide but the intentions are wholly different.


----------



## palo1 (16 April 2021)

hollyandivy123 said:



			possible option for the fourth bagel would be to go bare back...........saves the weight of the saddle and possibly opens up the opportunity of a biscuit with a cup of tea?
		
Click to expand...

Ooh I like your thinking!! Lol...


----------



## ester (16 April 2021)

Re. what CC says about it being different being RS or your own. 
I think with your own they are used to carrying you at your weight, and knowing exactly what you are asking of them when you are riding, in a saddle that is fitted to both them and you.
An RS mount doesn't tend to get those things which automatically makes it more problematic.
There was one point I had a chat with my instructor re. riding Frank - when I was living away and only back at weekends, but that situation resolved itself once I had him on DIY (less time for eating, more time just generally moving, and a lot more riding!). I never had any concerns riding him at the weights I was after that (13st +) and he didn't seem to either, he was fit, conditioned and with plenty of topline despite being in his 20s by then.

When he'd had to have a few months off at 24/25 I wouldn't have got back on him again, it wouldn't have been fair or  appropriate, Mum could have (a few stone lighter than me) but didn't ever really enjoy riding him so opted not to. 

I am finding it easier now than a few years ago to find weight limits for RS on their websites, which I think is a good thing, as a teen we never asked anyone. A few do say please contact us if you are over X weight to discuss


----------



## smolmaus (16 April 2021)

palo1 said:



			I hope you don't mind me challenging that word 'hurtful' as that sounds kind of personal; I think weighing in can be difficult in that situation but not hurtful. Sorry to be pedantic! The thing is that there is a real difference between weighing as part of a policy for animal health and weighing yourself for personal or medical reasons.  I know that the two can collide but the intentions are wholly different.
		
Click to expand...

No that's fair! Word choice is important when having this kind of discussion! Of course nobody is being deliberately hurtful in this particular situation, as you say it is a welfare issue and should be completely normal, but it can still cause someone pain unintentionally.

I sometimes hesitate to use the word "triggering" as it is so often a trigger (ironically) for more arguments, but here it might be the most appropriate word, as the "hurt" is internal rather than external and based more on previous experiences rather than what is currently happening.


----------



## sportsmansB (16 April 2021)

I do a lot of riding holidays 
They almost always specify a maximum weight 
I have never actually been weighed, but I do think they would have been entirely within their rights to do so given that I had accepted terms which included a maximum weight. 
Often we have been riding horses which are smaller than I would ride at home and I can completely see why weighing customers could be necessary.


----------



## palo1 (16 April 2021)

smolmaus said:



			No that's fair! Word choice is important when having this kind of discussion! Of course nobody is being deliberately hurtful in this particular situation, as you say it is a welfare issue and should be completely normal, but it can still cause someone pain unintentionally.

I sometimes hesitate to use the word "triggering" as it is so often a trigger (ironically) for more arguments, but here it might be the most appropriate word, as the "hurt" is internal rather than external and based more on previous experiences rather than what is currently happening.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely right.  The way that everyday stuff can trigger really difficult emotions and responses IS a problem for people experiencing that.  I do think that is one reason why 'fat shaming' is so appalling - I have no idea why anyone would think it a reasonable thing to do but I also think that (having never been on the receiving end of fat shaming to my knowledge!) some things can feel like deliberate hurtfulness because of the internal triggers that are there.  It seems to me that is one reason why really objective weight limits and open discussion are important in fact; then the discussion isn't potentially so personal and triggering for individuals.  As it is, we are all very anxious about talking about the state of our bodies and like any stigma that puts people who are struggling in a horrible place.  A cancer diagnosis used to carry terrible levels of shame with it; by open discussion and acknowledgement of really difficult stuff it has become far easier for people to deal with.  I would think, possibly that by really opening the discussion about our weight and issues around that in equestrianism we might all get more comfortable and confident about that?


----------



## Wishfilly (16 April 2021)

I think weight is a really tricky issue for any business that allows others to ride their horses. Obviously it needs to be handled sensitively, but it is a welfare issue, and obviously an issue financially if a horse is out of action due to having to carry too much weight.

And the fact is people do lie about all sorts of things- when I worked at a stables we even had clients lie about the age of their kids. We didn't weigh people, but were somewhat flexible around weight anyway- we had a few weight carriers which could take someone 16st+ for a steady trek once a day, but equally we couldn't accommodate, say, a group of 6 who all weighed 16st and wanted to go for a fast hack.

It's also worth bearing in mind that for people who can't get on and off without assistance, heavy riders can be a welfare issue for staff, too!

I think it's very much about what you ask a horse to do, too- there's a difference between a rider going out for half an hour at walk, and asking the same horse with the same rider to do fast work/jumping in the school. We did have to have difficult conversations with clients occasionally who wanted to ride a certain horse, but were too heavy, or wanted to progress something like jumping, but were limited in the horses they could ride due to weight. 

I do think asking someone to step on scales with no warning perhaps isn't the best way to handle things- I think clients should be warned, and privacy offered.


----------



## Tiddlypom (16 April 2021)

Kat said:



			I fully understand the reasons for having weight limits but I wonder how that would have affected a 16yr old signing up for a college course.
		
Click to expand...

It must have been a very unpleasant experience for a young you to come in over the college weight limit.

But as a general rule, it would not be wise to be relying on being on the nail with the target weight at home on the bathroom scales, you do need to allow for different scales reading weight differently along with time of day/time of the month/wearing different clothing. So if I was to go a place with a weight limit, I'd want to be consistently coming in at an absolute min of 4lb/preferably 7lb under the weight limit fully dressed in riding gear, to allow for fluctuations.

I'm a yo yo dieter, I'm no twig myself. There are times when I have not ridden because I've been too heavy. My horses couldn't give a flying f@rt whether I look good in a dress/look 2 stone lighter than the scales weigh me at.

There are other sports and courses that people can take part in where their weight is not an issue.

This is equine welfare, it is not fat shaming.



Wishfilly said:



			I do think asking someone to step on scales with no warning perhaps isn't the best way to handle things- I think clients should be warned, and privacy offered.
		
Click to expand...

I do agree with this too, there should be both prior warning of and privacy for a weigh in.


----------



## Elf On A Shelf (16 April 2021)

Just before the Melbourne Cup last year or the year before a rather large lass (that no one in their right mind would let on a horse) popped her head up and said that racing was sizist and the whole industry was fat shaming etc and that if anyone wanted to ride in a race then they should have the option to. There should be weight limits and optimum weights etc. It should be an open and fair sport. 

Well I would love see how many owners would choose the 18st lass over the 8st professional jockey ...


----------



## palo1 (16 April 2021)

There are weight limits and allowances in a huge range of sports; F1 drivers have to manage their weight as do competitive sailors and cyclists. Even Tug of War teams have to manage their individual and combined weights!   I know that not all horse riders are competitive nor certainly at an elite level but in just about every sport, weight has a bearing on things.  It is a pretty fundamental element of any aerobic/balance/weight carrying activity even without the animal welfare aspect.  It is just really difficult when our emotions rather than the hard facts get in the way of thinking about it.


----------



## smolmaus (16 April 2021)

palo1 said:



			Absolutely right.  The way that everyday stuff can trigger really difficult emotions and responses IS a problem for people experiencing that.  I do think that is one reason why 'fat shaming' is so appalling - I have no idea why anyone would think it a reasonable thing to do but I also think that (having never been on the receiving end of fat shaming to my knowledge!) some things can feel like deliberate hurtfulness because of the internal triggers that are there.  It seems to me that is one reason why really objective weight limits and open discussion are important in fact; then the discussion isn't potentially so personal and triggering for individuals.  As it is, we are all very anxious about talking about the state of our bodies and like any stigma that puts people who are struggling in a horrible place.  A cancer diagnosis used to carry terrible levels of shame with it; by open discussion and acknowledgement of really difficult stuff it has become far easier for people to deal with.  I would think, possibly that by really opening the discussion about our weight and issues around that in equestrianism we might all get more comfortable and confident about that?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I think that would be the best case scenario outcome. But I do think it needs to be handled sensitively until we get there. The day when your scale weight just means nothing other than the force you exert on the ground as an objective number is a long way off for a heck of a lot of people. 

We exist as people in a wider society before we come to equestrianism and just because when it comes to this one thing, yes it is an objective welfare issue, says nothing about you as a person, a saddle isn't ashamed of itself for being too long for a pony's back etc. we all carry over our feelings from our everyday lives into it. And everyday life is saturated with fatphobic messages, even if they aren't directed at you and even if they don't consciously affect you, it's still just part of the background noise of life. You can't necessarily fix that by just choosing to see things objectively, getting into that frame of mind takes work and it takes more work for some people than others. 

On a personal note, sometimes I think I am getting there, I do my best not to give in to smaller-is-better messaging but I have 2 new pairs of riding tights in two sizes and they've been sitting a week, one needs returned but if I can bloody make myself send back the smaller pair without telling myself "well you could just make yourself lose 10lb then you'd fit the smaller pair" 😈😈😈 it is so annoying


----------



## Wishfilly (16 April 2021)

smolmaus said:



			Yeah I think that would be the best case scenario outcome. But I do think it needs to be handled sensitively until we get there. The day when your scale weight just means nothing other than the force you exert on the ground as an objective number is a long way off for a heck of a lot of people.

We exist as people in a wider society before we come to equestrianism and just because when it comes to this one thing, yes it is an objective welfare issue, says nothing about you as a person, a saddle isn't ashamed of itself for being too long for a pony's back etc. we all carry over our feelings from our everyday lives into it. And everyday life is saturated with fatphobic messages, even if they aren't directed at you and even if they don't consciously affect you, it's still just part of the background noise of life. You can't necessarily fix that by just choosing to see things objectively, getting into that frame of mind takes work and it takes more work for some people than others.

On a personal note, sometimes I think I am getting there, I do my best not to give in to smaller-is-better messaging but I have 2 new pairs of riding tights in two sizes and they've been sitting a week, one needs returned but if I can bloody make myself send back the smaller pair without telling myself "well you could just make yourself lose 10lb then you'd fit the smaller pair" 😈😈😈 it is so annoying
		
Click to expand...

FWIW, I do get it is really really bloody tough, and it's easy for people to say it's not intended to hurt feelings, as it's just about welfare- but clearly weight does come with a lot of complex baggage for a lot of people. There are ways of handling things other than whipping out a set of scales, IMO- I say this as someone who's never likely to be over the weight of a RS weight limit, but would nonetheless be upset by certain numbers on the scale.

Competitive sport is different, and it's totally normal in a lot of sports to need to keep yourself within a certain weight class.


----------



## Michen (16 April 2021)

hollyandivy123 said:



			possible option for the fourth bagel would be to go bare back...........saves the weight of the saddle and possibly opens up the opportunity of a biscuit with a cup of tea?
		
Click to expand...

I've switched to crumpets today as discovered they are literally half the calories! So that's great. 4 of them- no problem.

I can't have biscuits in the house I literally eat the entire pack....

Bloody weight and age, 5 years ago I could have eaten 3,000 calories a day and still stayed within 9 stone..


----------



## ester (16 April 2021)

that's cos they are half air .


----------



## Tiddlypom (16 April 2021)

Wishfilly said:



			There are ways of handling things other than whipping out a set of scales,
		
Click to expand...

Genuine question - what other way of assessing rider weight would you suggest without using scales (assuming prior warning of using them and privacy)?

Would it not be worse to say 'You appear to be fat, so you can't ride, but he is not fat, he can?'


----------



## Kat (16 April 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			It must have been a very unpleasant experience for a young you to come in over the college weight limit.

But as a general rule, it would not be wise to be relying on being on the nail with the target weight at home on the bathroom scales, you do need to allow for different scales reading weight differently along with time of day/time of the month/wearing different clothing. So if I was to go a place with a weight limit, I'd want to be consistently coming in at an absolute min of 4lb/preferably 7lb under the weight limit fully dressed in riding gear, to allow for fluctuations.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I wasn't a teenager, I was doing an evening course as an adult.

I found it pretty unpleasant, as I say I'd been weighing myself and had checked that I was under fully dressed at home several times because I was worried about it. Then on the day on their scales weighed over.

I'd ridden at riding schools, on riding holidays and trekking places and had never been asked to get on the scales before so doing it in front of others then being pulled to one side was pretty horrible.

I totally respect their need to have some sort of system, but I think care needs to be taken, especially for a college dealing with teenage girls.

I like the suggestion of "contact us if you are over xxx weight" it then allows for them to discuss their limits, your expectations, available alternatives and arrange to do a weigh in discreetly if you are happy to proceed.

I was doing an evening course for pleasure but really worried about the effect it would have if you were a teenager signed up to do a vocational course.


----------



## Wishfilly (16 April 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Genuine question - what other way of assessing rider weight would you suggest without using scales (assuming prior warning of using them and privacy)?

Would it not be worse to say 'You appear to be fat, so you can't ride, but he is not fat, he can?'
		
Click to expand...

Basically, we just tried to avoid ever getting in that situation. Obviously sometimes, it can't be avoided and you have to have a difficult conversation with someone, but if you get to the stage where someone's turned up and they are too heavy, regardless of how you handle it (scales, personal judgement), it's going to be difficult and upsetting, and not something you want to handle on a public yard. 

We didn't state a weight limit, but obviously asked for weights on booking, and gave ourselves flexibility in that if someone turned up and they were a bit heavier than expected we could bring out a big weight carrier. If there were a lot of people in the group at a "borderline" weight, we usually turned away over the phone rather than risk having to do it in person (and have an empty slot on the day). 

I think if places state a weight limit, then people know what to say when they lie to say they're going to be under it. But equally, I do understand why places do.

Also, my boss was of the view that a tall fit person was better on a horse's back than a short, fat one, so she would use a bit of personal judgement. I'm not saying that's right, but they were her horses, and I would say it's obviously easier for a tall, muscly 16st to get on than a shorter, fatter one to get on, just as an example- which is an issue you have to take into account with beginners. 

I think the worst situation I've seen a yard put in was on a school residential trip, where a student (or her parents) had clearly lied about her weight, and that was a bit of an issue, because turning her away from the trip would have been a nightmare for all involved. The centre just put her on the most suitable horse they had, and limited the activities she did- which isn't a great solution, but I don't think there was one available. But making a lot of teenage girls weigh themselves in front of a person at the start of a trip wouldn't have been pleasant either (and if one downright refuses, what do you do then?).


----------



## stormox (16 April 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			not a go at you personally.

Clearly everyone has differing opinions but unless you are all up in everyone’s business then judging people by weight alone isn’t fair.  16st of heavy female is the same as 16st of lean male but the latter will always be acceptable due to the picture it presents.
		
Click to expand...

I think judging by weight is perfectly fair. I have seen amusement rides judged purely by weight and overweight people not allowed. Why should riding schools be any different?


----------



## Kaylum (16 April 2021)

If you have a bit of weight on you and want to ride at a riding school try a mechanical horse.  Riding is extremely physical and being bigger will not help you or the horse.  The mechanical horses can take up to 16 stone and you are not going to hurt the horse if you get tired.  I think its a great way to ride and get fit.  Our local riding school has one you can hire and use yourself once you have been shown how to.


----------



## EchoInterrupted (16 April 2021)

A bit tangential, but since we're on the topic - appropriate minimum size loan horse for a rider a bit under 11 stone and a bit over 5'10" (me dropping anything below 10stone wouldn't be healthy for me)? I always give the potential loan's owner my weight anyways, but I know a lot of people don't actually have an accurate weight on their horse, so an approximate height to be shooting for would be helpful. I was thinking something like 15.1hh+? I know it's not a failsafe given the effects of horse's condition, conformation, general build, etc but a rough guideline would be helpful.


----------



## HollyWoozle (16 April 2021)

I don't know if it's any help but I am 5'8" and currently weigh about 11st 4lbs. If I was to buy another horse then I would ideally look for something of a sort of medium chunkiness around the 15.1/15.2 size I think, accounting for the fact that my weight fluctuates a bit. My retired horse is 16.2hh but I have ridden something like 130 horses on trips, the vast majority of whom were smaller than her, and I no longer see the need or desire for another big horse and feel that a suitable smaller mount could carry me fine.

You are a few inches taller than me so I think it would depend on how you felt on the horse and how they took up your leg but in my opinion you're along the right lines as a lower limit, depending on all those factors you already have in mind.


----------



## Roasted Chestnuts (16 April 2021)

stormox said:



			I think judging by weight is perfectly fair. I have seen amusement rides judged purely by weight and overweight people not allowed. Why should riding schools be any different?
		
Click to expand...

I think you need to read and quote the rest of my post. That part wasn’t about riding schools


----------



## Lipglosspukka (16 April 2021)

EchoInterrupted said:



			A bit tangential, but since we're on the topic - appropriate minimum size loan horse for a rider a bit under 11 stone and a bit over 5'10" (me dropping anything below 10stone wouldn't be healthy for me)? I always give the potential loan's owner my weight anyways, but I know a lot of people don't actually have an accurate weight on their horse, so an approximate height to be shooting for would be helpful. I was thinking something like 15.1hh+? I know it's not a failsafe given the effects of horse's condition, conformation, general build, etc but a rough guideline would be helpful.
		
Click to expand...


At 5ft7 I am happy on anything 13.2 upwards. 

I'm sure you be fine on a stocky 14.2 that takes up your leg, or 15hh upwards for something finer.


----------



## Wishfilly (16 April 2021)

EchoInterrupted said:



			A bit tangential, but since we're on the topic - appropriate minimum size loan horse for a rider a bit under 11 stone and a bit over 5'10" (me dropping anything below 10stone wouldn't be healthy for me)? I always give the potential loan's owner my weight anyways, but I know a lot of people don't actually have an accurate weight on their horse, so an approximate height to be shooting for would be helpful. I was thinking something like 15.1hh+? I know it's not a failsafe given the effects of horse's condition, conformation, general build, etc but a rough guideline would be helpful.
		
Click to expand...

I think it's not necessarily so much about height, although on most 15hh+ horses you would be fine, but equally you'd be fine on a chunky 14.2 and might be less comfortable on a really fine 15hh horse. At 11 stone there are a lot of options, but at 5'10'' you will probably want something able to take up your leg a bit!


----------

