# Turn out / bring in issues



## BillyBobs (14 May 2021)

Hello ! I have a lovely 9yo TB who has been with us 6 weeks now . Been a hard settle in terms of saddles , needing dentist due to evading the bit , daughter broke her foot ... all in all he has been great . He’s not long out of racing but has a sensible head. My question is about turn  out 
So we now have 24/7 turn out - I have kept him in his old routine which was out during day and in at night . I didn’t this to keep a routine , prevent issues like colic/ lami and also to prevent future problems in winter as the winter turn out is limited to only during day and only week days . Some have advised me to chuck him out , he’s a TB , it’s good for him etc etc . I agree to an extent . However , we are having some issues bringing him in , he sometimes is great , but has tanked off a few times , and he is very strong ( he broke friends finger who was trying to help as he just pelted off with with lead rope flowing in the wind ) . We have tried lots of things , treats , no treats , chasing until he runs out of steam , not letting him graze , he just gets all stressed and runs about daft . Yet walking in hand at other times he’s an angel , turning out he is as patient as a saint . Any tips on how to get him out calmly ? And also would more turn out help or am I better sticking to a  routine ?? I can see both sides . On the one hand the more he is out the more chilled he might be , but he might also then just not want to come in ever ! We have only had him 6 weeks and I am sure he is still settling , only been in summer field a fortnight . New people and new horses and new yard , it’s also much busier than where he was. He does has a tendency to be slightly stressy and does crib in his stable , and can box walk at times if he senses others are out and he is in . Having said that he has been amazing for farrier , dentist (even after a nightmare of catching him over 1.5 hours and him sweating , he stood for the dentist like a champ ) . 
I want to fix this issue - he is my daughters horse and we will try anything !! It’s making the experience so stressful as we don’t know from one day to the next if we will get him in???
Maybe we should just chill and lots of horses go thru this and it sorts itself out in time .... I have seen others in the yard struggle too . But theirs seem to eventually give in - he is a racehorse so has tons of stamina and energy !!! Any advice at all is appreciated


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## TheMule (14 May 2021)

Does he turn and run back to his field when you bring him in? Are there others in when you catch up him? He sounds like he finds the stable quite stressful so I recommend finding a way to help him with this- change stable, try a mirror etc- or try him out 24/7


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## BillyBobs (14 May 2021)

TheMule said:



			Does he turn and run back to his field when you bring him in? Are there others in when you catch up him? He sounds like he finds the stable quite stressful so I recommend finding a way to help him with this- change stable, try a mirror etc- or try him out 24/7
		
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Yes, he runs back to the herd and his friend!  and yes there are others in there when I catch him. Some days he will be caught fine ! He is settled in his stable 95% of the time , its just the odd time he stresses and I only know due to CCTV in the stable, if I didnt have that I would not even know he was doing it . I was thinking of turning him out more, but I am worried about winter when he cant be turned out due to the yard rules, and also would it be even harder to catch him if he is out more ?  I will defo get him a mirror , I have heard that works wonders , thank you


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## splashgirl45 (14 May 2021)

i would let him be out 24/7 if the others are out,  by the time winter comes you will know him better, he will trust you more and all of the horses will also be coming in.  6 weeks is no time at all for a horse to settle so be patient and it will be ok in the end...


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## BillyBobs (14 May 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			i would let him be out 24/7 if the others are out,  by the time winter comes you will know him better, he will trust you more and all of the horses will also be coming in.  6 weeks is no time at all for a horse to settle so be patient and it will be ok in the end...
		
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yes, I did think that too, others will be in more too in Winter and we will have bonded more


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## Amymay (14 May 2021)

I’d Chuck him out too. Just bring him in to ride and feed.


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## Pearlsasinger (14 May 2021)

Have you got any particular reason to think that he might get colic or laminitis if he is out 24/7?  If not I would leave him out 24/7 and work on the stable being an attractive place for him to come in to.  If most of the other horses on the yard are out, I am not surprised that he is stressed in the stable.  I would teach him that being caught gets him nice tasty food, and build up the distance that you lead him gradually.

On the subject of food, what are you giving him?  I had a tbx who could be a nightmare to lead to the stable to spend the night in winter, we eventually realised that she was physically addicted to he coarse ix that we were giving her when she came in.


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## BillyBobs (15 May 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Have you got any particular reason to think that he might get colic or laminitis if he is out 24/7?  If not I would leave him out 24/7 and work on the stable being an attractive place for him to come in to.  If most of the other horses on the yard are out, I am not surprised that he is stressed in the stable.  I would teach him that being caught gets him nice tasty food, and build up the distance that you lead him gradually.

On the subject of food, what are you giving him?  I had a tbx who could be a nightmare to lead to the stable to spend the night in winter, we eventually realised that she was physically addicted to he coarse ix that we were giving her when she came in.
		
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Thanks for your reply - no , no specific reason to worry about lami and colic other than the fact he has never had 24/7 turn out before ( racing meant he was stabled a  lot and in his trainers yard he was out in day and in at night ), also 3 of the horses on the yard had colic in the first week of summer turn out so it made me worry!  Other horses are in during the night too and have the same routine as me , the stable on his right is in every night but the one on the left who is his bestie is out , but he is a hardy cob. 
He is fed Alfa A , speedi beet and Baileys ease and excel.
Once he is in his stable he does seem settled majority of the time , its just the coming in part that seems an issue...


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## splashgirl45 (15 May 2021)

i would still leave him out all of the time, the grass will be coming through so he shouldnt lose weight and he should be more chilled out.  my warmblood cross mare was very difficult in the winter , she used to rush out of the stable and prance down to the field.  when she was out 24/7 she was an angel to bring in and turn out and well behaved when ridden., it makes a lot of difference to most horses who are a bit hot....


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## BillyBobs (17 May 2021)

update - came in Saturday like an angel , was caught and walked beautifully ! The field is huge and you have to traverse a large hill etc so was very proud as he was right at the bottom ! However, tonight was a different story - was caught fine, happy , head collar on, walked a few steps and then this wee pony cantered over and pulled a face and he tanked off! Went back and tried again, same thing, distracted by another pony. Left him to calm down for a bit, he was happy for me to come up, pat him, sort his head collar out etc . Didnt want to move, planted his feet, asked him firmly to walk on and he did but then same thing .  I ended up giving up in the end , took the head collar off and left him out.  I could see it was only going one way and once he tanks off , nobody can control him. I know I have done wrong ( I think ) and he will think he has won but it was dangerous , plus it was whipping up the whole heard and they were all stressing cos he was prancing around with his head collar and bloody lead rope ! I dont understand why he is so good being led in hand normally , its ONLY coming out of field and its ONLY sometimes !  I am considering leaving him out more but he does need to come in daily to be ridden / feed - isnt that just going to make it harder ! I feel so despondent ! Its my daughters horse , she is 14 but I am always there to help etc - its not been a great start, issues with tack etc and him not being ridden as much as he should due to my daughter being injured..... we have someone riding him but these issues with coming in are just making me dread it all...


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## Havital (17 May 2021)

my Tb mare was a nightmare to catch if other horses were out. I tried numerous things but getting a monty roberts head collar definitely helped and gave me more control. She’d be pretty dangerous to and run circles around me. I know what you mean about feeling like you have let them win but if they are putting you in danger then you need to remove yourself like you rightly did. I would invest in professional help with this I think.


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## BillyBobs (17 May 2021)

Havital said:



			my Tb mare was a nightmare to catch if other horses were out. I tried numerous things but getting a monty roberts head collar definitely helped and gave me more control. She’d be pretty dangerous to and run circles around me. I know what you mean about feeling like you have let them win but if they are putting you in danger then you need to remove yourself like you rightly did. I would invest in professional help with this I think.
		
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Thank you ! I know deep down I did the right thing , it wasn’t going anywhere . There was. 6ft odd guy with tons of experience who he got away from when he is in that frame of mind so me or my daughter don’t stand a chance ! He just isn’t like this all the time and never when leading to the arena / field / washroom / lunge pen .... just about 20% of the time when coming in from field . I was thinking of a Monty Roberts , but I think I need someone to help with this. I don’t even know who to ask or what it is I’m asking for as it’s just one specific situation and his stable / ground manners are lovely !


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## splashgirl45 (17 May 2021)

he will settle more if he is out with the herd all of the time.  dont lose heart,  i would take a lunge line ,wear gloves as well, and then if he plays up he will find it much harder to get away.....    try this and bring him just outside the field and give him his feed there make sure you put the feed bowl a little bit away from the gate so the others dont try pinching it..,  once he has finished his feed keep him outside the field and groom him...then put him back with the others... next day do the same but leave the feed bowl a bit further away so he knows he has to walk away from the field..remember you havent had him long and he will be feeling insecure without his mates.. on the days when he behaves you could carry the feed and then put him in his stable..be patient, it should get easier the longer you have him...


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## webble (18 May 2021)

Try doing some ground work with him. I second using a lunge line and a dually


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## Pearlsasinger (18 May 2021)

TBH, I would lead his horse in a bridle.  I don't use headcollars, I prefer a simple rope halter (not a Dually) but once the horse knows it can get away from you, you are fighting a losing battle.   Will he come to call, so that you don't have to negotiate the other horses in the herd?


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## scopeybay98 (18 May 2021)

BillyBobs said:



			Hello ! I have a lovely 9yo TB who has been with us 6 weeks now . Been a hard settle in terms of saddles , needing dentist due to evading the bit , daughter broke her foot ... all in all he has been great . He’s not long out of racing but has a sensible head. My question is about turn  out
So we now have 24/7 turn out - I have kept him in his old routine which was out during day and in at night . I didn’t this to keep a routine , prevent issues like colic/ lami and also to prevent future problems in winter as the winter turn out is limited to only during day and only week days . Some have advised me to chuck him out , he’s a TB , it’s good for him etc etc . I agree to an extent . However , we are having some issues bringing him in , he sometimes is great , but has tanked off a few times , and he is very strong ( he broke friends finger who was trying to help as he just pelted off with with lead rope flowing in the wind ) . We have tried lots of things , treats , no treats , chasing until he runs out of steam , not letting him graze , he just gets all stressed and runs about daft . Yet walking in hand at other times he’s an angel , turning out he is as patient as a saint . Any tips on how to get him out calmly ? And also would more turn out help or am I better sticking to a  routine ?? I can see both sides . On the one hand the more he is out the more chilled he might be , but he might also then just not want to come in ever ! We have only had him 6 weeks and I am sure he is still settling , only been in summer field a fortnight . New people and new horses and new yard , it’s also much busier than where he was. He does has a tendency to be slightly stressy and does crib in his stable , and can box walk at times if he senses others are out and he is in . Having said that he has been amazing for farrier , dentist (even after a nightmare of catching him over 1.5 hours and him sweating , he stood for the dentist like a champ ) .
I want to fix this issue - he is my daughters horse and we will try anything !! It’s making the experience so stressful as we don’t know from one day to the next if we will get him in???
Maybe we should just chill and lots of horses go thru this and it sorts itself out in time .... I have seen others in the yard struggle too . But theirs seem to eventually give in - he is a racehorse so has tons of stamina and energy !!! Any advice at all is appreciated
		
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One thing to try would be taking him a walk in hand to his “walk to the field route” but don’t go to the field. This can show him that not every time he walks that way he goes to the field. Also you going into the field and walking around for a while (of course safely) without headcollar and lead rope, to show him that not every time someone comes into the field means he’s leaving right away. I’ve had trouble with this and I find taking things slowly helps so much. Also doing it bit by bit i.e. putting headcollar on, walking a wee bit, stopping and letting him graze a bit, walk a wee bit more, etc etc then at the gate put on the lead rope and walk out. Not sure if any of this will help at all but my old Tb did all that and this is what helped us.


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## poiuytrewq (18 May 2021)

The only thing I’d be a little concerned about him being out 24/7 is that when you do want to ride him. Will he cotton onto the fact he’s coming into ride and therefore be even more difficult. 
I have stuck to quite a strict routine with my last 2. The one I have now is so laid back I don’t think he’d care what I did but the previous one really needed a set routine. 
Its a bit catch 22, yes being out all the time may chill him out but In my opinion may also cause issues, I can’t really see it helping with a horse who’s breaking free to get back to the others. 
Id also be leading in a bridle with a decent lead rope (as opposed to reins)  or chifney.  He’s learnt he can get away and you need a bit of help to break that sooner rather than later. When I was a kid my first pony did it regularly and with no help it got worse to the point I’d sometimes not be able to get him in for weeks.


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## Laafet (18 May 2021)

If he's not long out of racing then he might not be used to being led on a headcollar. Most racehorses are led in chifneys or a shank chain on a headcollar. This gives you a lot more control. I would be torn about whether to leave him out or not. On one hand he will be much better for being let down and out but if you are struggling to bring him in then this will not improve for living out 24/7 from experience. 
I'd definitely put a bridle on him as a bare minimum for bringing in as he will know and respect this for bringing in. My ex racer is an angel but I very rarely lead her in just a head collar. I'd rather help her always get it right, than let her get it wrong and upset her.


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## poiuytrewq (18 May 2021)

Is he actually straight out of training op? 
It might be an idea to give him a break if so. A complete holiday out while your able then start again from scratch. That kind of go’s against when I said above but I do believe they need a break after retiring. Just to chill and adjust


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## fredflop (19 May 2021)

Difficult one… whatever you do, you need to stop the vicious circle of him yanking the lead rope out of your hands. Every time he does it just reinforces more that he can do it.

in an ideal world he’d be out 24/7, in a small area. You can then work on catching… going in several times a day. Mixture of feeding, petting and putting the headcollar on. Then as time goes on make the area bigger with more friends. Introduce leading out of the field then putting back into the field.

eventually should build up so you can catch him


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## Sussexbythesea (19 May 2021)

I disagree with turning him out 24hrs just because he’s being awkward. He’s more likely to become even more herd bound than he already is. He should come in quietly as and when you want him to. I always use a rope halter now as ordinary head collars are useless tools. However now he’s learnt to get away I’d agree with others that you should use a bridle and long rope and make sure you wear a hat and gloves.

Certainly seeking professional help may be required. In a calm situation you should be working on his obedience leading forward, stopping and turning and backing away as you ask him. Hopefully you can then translate that to bringing in. I always give my horses a nice reason to come in. Usually food even if a small amount and a good scratchy groom if they like it and around 10 -20 mins of chill time in the stable if they might need a wee and poo so they are comfortable before riding.


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## BillyBobs (20 May 2021)

So he has now been out since Monday, even the girl who does liveries and has loads of experience couldnt get him out ! You can walk up to him, you can put head collar / bridle on , but the long walk blows his tiny mind. I think part of it is the large herd, he has not been used to that. I have gone up morning and night , after work , I spend about an hour in the field, put a head collar on, take it off, put it back on , walk around  etc.  I have called in the help of Paddy Gracey, he was due today but due to the weather we have re scheduled until Monday. He advised to leave him out in the meantime . I will continue to go to the field and stroke him, head collar on etc.  I just feel so bad, the weather is awful , windy and rainy but he really doesnt care, he is grazing away happily.  He has also lost his front shoe.  He can suffer from mud rash and I am worried about that too...  I absolutely hate this. Cant remember feeling so stressed about !! There is another girl at the yard who got her pony same time, she is off at jumping clinics and having a ball, and my poor daughter is stressed and has a pony that is left out in a field .  Thanks for all your comments and help, it really has helped with perspective !


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## splashgirl45 (20 May 2021)

have you got him outside the gate and let him stay out there for a while rather than all the way up to the stable?    hang in there,  there is always an answer you just need a bit of help. hope paddy will be able to sort out the problem.....would love to know what happens so please update when you can.  its good to gain as much knowledge as possible as we all might be in a similar situation in the future...good luck for monday


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## BillyBobs (20 May 2021)

splashgirl45 said:



			hang in there,  there is always an answer you just need a bit of help. hope paddy will be able to sort out the problem.....would love to know what happens so please update when you can.  its good to gain as much knowledge as possible as we all might be in a similar situation in the future...good luck for monday
		
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Thank you ! I keep telling myself there has to be a solution - there must be !! 
I will defo update you after Monday !


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## PinnyGig (10 July 2021)

Soon as we're into summer turnout and head off down to the big boy fieldds that it - gone.   I wave and yell _ “See you about late Sept... have a good 'un”  _


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## Widgeon (12 July 2021)

BillyBobs said:



			Thank you ! I keep telling myself there has to be a solution - there must be !!
I will defo update you after Monday ! 

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How are you getting on BB? Has your daughter's horse setted? Have had my fingers crossed for you, it sounded very stressful.


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## BillyBobs (1 August 2021)

Widgeon said:



			How are you getting on BB? Has your daughter's horse setted? Have had my fingers crossed for you, it sounded very stressful.
		
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Aww thank you !! Well we have well and truly cracked it - he comes in like a lamb.  Key is using the dually and he knows he must behave , but lately we have been turning him out in a breakaway head collar, and he lets you walk up to him and leads in like a little lamb ! The key was patience and finding a way that was the least stressful for him
We now have riding / napping issues ... never ends does it .  We have only had him 3 months and sometimes it feels like one thing after another , but when I look back on how far we have come , I realize it all comes with time and patience x


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## I'm Dun (1 August 2021)

You bought an ex racer off the track, I'm sorry but what on earth were you expecting? They need time to wind down and then they need competent and experienced handling to turn them into riding horses. Was he vetted and has he been scoped/treated for ulcers? If not do that now before you do anything else.


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## brighteyes (1 August 2021)

I had a rearing napper, but he was really just an insecure little horse who only needed time to get his head around things and some positive assurance to help him once we were on our way. Rearing was his last reaction to his fears of going off alone and he never ever did it after the matter was worked through and he gained trust in me.  Sometimes that's all it is. Anxiety. Best little horse ever, actually.


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## brighteyes (1 August 2021)

I'm Dun said:



			You bought an ex racer off the track, I'm sorry but what on earth were you expecting? They need time to wind down and then they need competent and experienced handling to turn them into riding horses. Was he vetted and has he been scoped/treated for ulcers? If not do that now before you do anything else.
		
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Oooh a tad harsh - but it applies to all horses facing what has to be massive upheaval. Straight out of racing probably more so and a busy livery yard is altogether too much for some horses. OP seems to be doing reasonably well, from what they have described?


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## Mrs. Jingle (1 August 2021)

BillyBobs said:



			We now have riding / napping issues ... never ends does it . We have only had him 3 months and sometimes it feels like one thing after another , but when I look back on how far we have come , I realize it all comes with time and patience x
		
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I think you are doing a grand job BillyBobs and you have come so far in 3 short months.  I am sure with your patience and kind approach to him you will overcome the other issues, as you so rightly say it all takes time. Good luck!


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## splashgirl45 (1 August 2021)

glad to hear you have sorted the issue of the turning out, sounds like you have done it the right way.  dont forget racehorses are used to being ridden with lots of other horses and even if they are ridden in an indoor school they are not usually alone so bear that in mind with the ridden problems and try and only ride him in company both in the school and hacking.and keep the pressure really low for a while.  good luck


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## brighteyes (1 August 2021)

BTW I have an ex racer and he has shown unexpected confidence and unexpected lack of the same which experience and a private, super-chilled home has undoubtedly mitigated. Two years in and we read each other like a book.

Except today, when his 'terror' of big stones and benches (on a regular ride comprising mostly big stones and benches) almost wore my patience to a shred...


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## Widgeon (2 August 2021)

BillyBobs said:



			The key was patience and finding a way that was the least stressful for him.....when I look back on how far we have come , I realize it all comes with time and patience x
		
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Oh that's great, I'm so pleased for you. Sorry to hear your're having ridden issues but hopefully those will resolve too with the same approach of patience and being firm. At least you know now that you can work through the problems he throws at you. Have you got a good instructor or even someone to ride him for you to help with the napping? Would be a shame if it ends up knocking your confidence when you've been doing well. Very best wishes with him, do let us know how you get on 

P.S. I thought post 28 was pretty harsh but it is a fair point about ulcers, it would be worth ruling those out in so far as you can, then at least that's one obvious potential physical casue for the napping eliminated.


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