# Riding with baby strapped to chest



## sarcasm_queen (21 February 2016)

Driving back this afternoon, and saw a couple of people out for a hack on a fairly busy local road. One of the women had a fairly small baby in a sling on her chest. 
Purely out of interest, is it illegal to do that (child endangerment etc) or just wonderfully stupid?


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## wench (21 February 2016)

Very stupid thing to do I would think. How could anyone be that stupid


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## Bav (21 February 2016)

Wonderfully stupid!! I admit to having my 10 month old passed up to me for a quick sit with mummy for all of a minute and that was enough to have other people hyper ventilating but to actually venture off with a baby on a hack! Mind boggles...


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## Equi (21 February 2016)

Oh dear god...


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## nato (21 February 2016)

That image gives me shivers down my spine. How stupid. 

No matter how safe you think your horse is, you just never know what could happen.


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## debsflo (21 February 2016)

Please god no....what a selfish idiot..


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## FfionWinnie (21 February 2016)

I would imagine if the child was killed it would quickly become an issue of endangerment!


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## DD (21 February 2016)

ring the Police or NSPCC thats terrible.


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## Orca (21 February 2016)

Jeepers. That's just beyond comprehension. Although (just pondering), a lot of women ride into late pregnancy - is that any better/ worse?


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## Enfys (21 February 2016)

You can't teach stupid.  

However,  as Orca mentioned,   I was riding when I was 8 months pregnant,  and although I realise that a baby in utero is far more protected,  I still,  in a fashion,  chose to risk her safety.  So perhaps my starting comment could have also applied to me


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## dibbin (21 February 2016)

That's insane.


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## Orca (21 February 2016)

Enfys said:



			You can't teach stupid.  

However,  as Orca mentioned,   I was riding when I was 8 months pregnant,  and although I realise that a baby in utero is far more protected,  I still,  in a fashion,  chose to risk her safety.  So perhaps my starting comment could have also applied to me 

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I'm definitely not calling anyone stupid for the choices they make. Having 'done' pregnancy four times over, I'm a little beyond other people telling me what I should and shouldn't do myself at this stage . 

Our unborns are subjected to risk via our choices every single day (I was hit head on by another car at 70mph, at 34 wks, for example). Yes, babies have more protection in utero but I'm sure most of us have had accidents on (or rather, off) horse back and have suffered broken bones and/ internal injuries as a consequence. There is no reason why babies in utero would experience some kind of supernatural protection, so unfortunately, they are at risk but at what point do we draw the line when making choices regarding what is 'right or wrong' for other women and their babies, either in utero or out?


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## sarcasm_queen (21 February 2016)

Downton Dame said:



			ring the Police or NSPCC thats terrible.
		
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Don't live in the area, so have no idea about names/ where she lives etc. 
If anyone near Marwell Zoo sees a women on a chunky palamino, then kindly tell her she's an idiot


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## MargotC (21 February 2016)

God, but that is awful. They are literally only one spook, slip, or trip away from a very horrid accident.


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## Sags_Deer (21 February 2016)

Good grief that is so awful , please report it


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## ycbm (21 February 2016)

Riding while pregnant is risky, but the option is ride or not ride, risk or no risk. The baby is not an independent life. That, I understand.

In this case there are a dozen other options. Get a babysitter, pay a nursery, ride in an arena and leave the baby strapped into a seat by the side (outside the fence!), etc

Riding with a baby in a sling along a ROAD, words fail me.


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## Clare85 (21 February 2016)

Just sheer idiocy! Very very dangerous indeed, I can't believe someone would do that! She wants reporting.


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## Illusion100 (21 February 2016)

Unless that baby was strapped to her chest to be galloped to the nearest A&E for emergency live saving treatment......erm, no. 

This does not reach my level of approval. 

Considering I have low standards, this is saying something.


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## wills_91 (21 February 2016)

I would have got out and said something.


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## thatsmygirl (21 February 2016)

equi said:



			Oh dear god...
		
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Quite, I'm quite shocked tbh


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## Tiddlypom (21 February 2016)

Stupid, stupid, selfish. 

Baby would have been safer left home alone in its cot, like a posh horsey lady used to do in these parts when she rode, and I thought THAT was bad.


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## quirky (21 February 2016)

Incredibly fool hardy, how could she live with herself if the unspeakable happened ?

In an equally stupid move, I see a woman out on her horse with her dog attached by a long lead to her d ring.


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## indiat (21 February 2016)

I also rode when pregnant but I did make some compromises by not jumping and not going out on the road! To put a baby in a sling and ride along a road is terrible.


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## AmieeT (21 February 2016)

Pretty sure it's the law that under 14s have to wear a hat? So possibly actually illegal.

Even if it's not, no matter how safe the horse it it's a reckless, selfish and idiotic thing to do.


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## Red-1 (21 February 2016)

AmieeT said:



			Pretty sure it's the law that under 14s have to wear a hat? So possibly actually illegal.

Even if it's not, no matter how safe the horse it it's a reckless, selfish and idiotic thing to do.
		
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Yes, it is! 

I can only imagine what would happen if she fell on the baby from that height,let alone for stray hooves...


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## Crazy_cat_lady (21 February 2016)

Very stupid thing imagine if they fell off and landed on the baby. 

Think it actually beats the following for stupidity and that says something - saw on my fb at the weekend - 2 teenagers stood up on their ponies backs in socks with no hats on. The caption - "pony surfing" yeah really funny was so tempted to comment. ..


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## Greylegs (21 February 2016)

Joining in the overwhelming condemnation .... stupiditity beyond measure. I once saw someone with a very small baby in one of those backpack/baby's eat type things riding along a busy road near me. She was wearing a hard hat, but the baby wasn't!! 

Just what do these people use for brains??? Unbelievable!!!


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## Equi (21 February 2016)

Falling is not the only thing. If a bird flew out and the horse threw his head up the baby could be squished. How can rider dismount safely? What if she got off and horse moved and she lost balance and fell? If she took baby off to hand to friend what if strap slipped? 

You can what if any number of situations and as a risk rule them out - let's face it falling on the road is "quite" rare - but less dangerous things happen so much more often and those incidences could be fatal to such a small child.


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## Newlands (21 February 2016)

Whaaaat!!  When I bought our baby carrier it had a couple of symbols on the box of activities you shouldn't participate in whilst using it.  Horse riding was one of those and i remember thinking ha ha yeah who would.   I did ride through my pregnancies though which I know other people have their views on but, wtf!! Idiot!


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## ILuvCowparsely (21 February 2016)

sarcasm_queen said:



			Driving back this afternoon, and saw a couple of people out for a hack on a fairly busy local road. One of the women had a fairly small baby in a sling on her chest. 
Purely out of interest, is it illegal to do that (child endangerment etc) or just wonderfully stupid?
		
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Totally insane - dangerous - irresponsible - ludicrous.

NSPCC should be called - only takes one wrong move - and could get in fatality


I suppose will see saddle bags for babies next!!!!!!


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## Lintel (21 February 2016)

Oh dear.
Great multitasking idea.. but you'd never forgive yourself if something happened.
As others have said I could trust my boy 100%.... 80% of the time!.. and it's not even the horse you have to worry about it's the drivers too!


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## horselady (8 February 2017)

didn't mean to post on this thread.


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## gmw (8 February 2017)

Word fail me. Unbelievably stupid.


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## SpringArising (8 February 2017)

wills_91 said:



			I would have got out and said something.
		
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Me too. Although I would have been so flabbergasted I'm not sure I would have been able to say anything other than "You are JOKING?".


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## meesha (8 February 2017)

When learning to ride motorbike was out with instructor and he would say "that's ok, they can always make another" (sarcastically obviously) when he used to see child on back of adults motorbike, much too small to hold on safely with shorts, trainers, much too large helmet etc !!


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## lau_ (8 February 2017)

That's scary, that should not be allowed.


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## DabDab (8 February 2017)

Hmmm, I dunno. I mean, I think it is spectacularly stupid, but then I also think putting children in cars is stupid, and walking along a country lane with them in a pram.....

I often think that if cars had been invented this year they'd have been instantly banned. It's a tin box containing a large amount of highly flammable fuel and a plethora of potential ignition sources in which you zoom about at 60mph and the only thing preventing you colliding with another zooming, fuel filled tin box going at the same speed in the opposite direction is some white lines painted on the floor. It's truly madness.


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## horselady (8 February 2017)

OK, to me riding with a baby is awful. On a road...words fail me.


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## Hoof_Prints (8 February 2017)

no words really! ... I do hope the child has inherited a bit more intelligence from such a stupid mother!


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## Nudibranch (8 February 2017)

Apart from the stupidity, I find it very sad that someone can have so little care for the welfare of their own child. I was quite shocked at the extent of the protective instinct which kicked in after baby NB was born, not to mention the awful, unspeakable fear that anything bad might happen to him. Surely it's an overriding instinct to keep them safe from harm? Clearly not in the case of some!


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## C1airey (8 February 2017)

Oh I don't know, what could possibly go wrong tootling down the road on an unpredictable animal with a bairn strapped into a glorified scarf?


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## Pinkvboots (8 February 2017)

idiots


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## Fidgety (8 February 2017)

As I was bringing my own children up (including working childcare around my horse!) I always had the phrase 'what would the coroner say?' at the back of my head.  I cannot believe the stupidity and selfishness of this woman  .  I can only hope that this woman, or one of her friends or fellow liveries is watching this thread and feeds back to her.


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## GirlFriday (8 February 2017)

Not something I personally would do but many people would put (hold) young babies up for a photo op, take 3 year olds for lessons on ponies, have toddlers up to a yard to feed carrots etc. And of course plenty of people take their kids on pedal bike seats on the road. What this lady was doing was essentially a little more dangerous than those things combined... And the baby was (presumably) with its mother rather than dumped while she pursued her hobby, which, assuming it makes it that far, will have measurably better outcomes into adulthood... So, unless we're condemning every parent who lets their child ride ponies and every parent who takes their kid on a push bike... Live and let live?


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## twiggy2 (9 February 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Not something I personally would do but many people would put (hold) young babies up for a photo op, take 3 year olds for lessons on ponies, have toddlers up to a yard to feed carrots etc. And of course plenty of people take their kids on pedal bike seats on the road. What this lady was doing was essentially a little more dangerous than those things combined... And the baby was (presumably) with its mother rather than dumped while she pursued her hobby, which, assuming it makes it that far, will have measurably better outcomes into adulthood... So, unless we're condemning every parent who lets their child ride ponies and every parent who takes their kid on a push bike... Live and let live?
		
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Hmm I am not commenting on the horse back woman with the baby strapped to her. But when I have had toddlers on a pony they have a walker on each side holding them and I have never had a bicycle that has a mind of its own so I think these activities are far less risky than what op described.


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## hairycob (9 February 2017)

GirlFriday what this lady did was magnitudes more dangerous than the examples you give. A friend of mine was out on her very reliable horse a couple of weeks ago and he slipped, fell right down and deposited her inches from a car (driving perfectly safely btw). Imagine the consequences if she had a baby strapped to her.


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## DabDab (9 February 2017)

hairycob said:



			GirlFriday what this lady did was magnitudes more dangerous than the examples you give. A friend of mine was out on her very reliable horse a couple of weeks ago and he slipped, fell right down and deposited her inches from a car (driving perfectly safely btw). Imagine the consequences if she had a baby strapped to her.
		
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And I rode out on my horse yesterday and nothing untoward happened at all.....that's the point, it's a risk. Just like many other day to day situations that people choose to put their children in - but because they are considered normal you won't get people on forums up in arms about it.
Would I strap my own child to my chest and ride up the road? God help me no. But I'm not going to condemn her for being so much worse a parent than those who take more ordinary risks with their children's lives every day.


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## mytwofriends (9 February 2017)

Shocking beyond belief. My horse is what I'd consider to be 99.9% bombproof. I'd never have done something so foolhardy even on him - that 00.1% might just have  kicked in. Then what?


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## Nudibranch (9 February 2017)

Girlfriday...do you have children? It was incredibly dangerous, not just a little. I won't put mine in the sling even to go and do hay/feed. Horses are big, powerful, and even the kindest can have a spook or a clumsy moment.
You don't have to dump a baby to go riding - mine stays with OH which is good for both of them. If you don't have a reliable family member or friend then tbh, get rid of the horse. Sorry but children come first and I say that after 30+ years of horses.


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## ycbm (9 February 2017)

To get off, surely she must be swinging her leg forward and landing face outwards? Words fail me.


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## StarcatcherWilliam (9 February 2017)

Oh this makes me feel quite sick. I have a five week old baby (my first) and I've just bought a baby carrier for him. It clearly states in the safety manual (and us printed on the carrier) that the wearer is not to engage in sports such as horse riding, running etc When I read that I thought it was ridiculous that they needed to write that, I mean who would be so stupid?? Obviously there ARE people out there who are that stupid. How sad. The mothering instinct obviously passed her by, my baby is the most precious thing to me and I'd do anything to protect him. She really needs to be reported!


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## Llewellyn (9 February 2017)

Do not judge others because they sin differently to you.


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## Tiddlypom (9 February 2017)

Llewellyn said:



			Do not judge others because they sin differently to you.
		
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I WILL judge someone for doing something that is clearly plain bl00dy dangerous and stupid.


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## twiggy2 (9 February 2017)

Llewellyn said:



			Do not judge others because they sin differently to you.
		
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I like this


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## ljohnsonsj (9 February 2017)

A whole other special kind of stupid. Risk yourself all day long but do not risk a poor innocent baby


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## Spirit666 (9 February 2017)

Not something I would risk, too many riders are involved in road accidents, the risks don't bear thinking about.


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## ycbm (9 February 2017)

Llewellyn said:



			Do not judge others because they sin differently to you.
		
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OK. Would you like to borrow my two year old daughter for a spot of light kiddy porn photography (no sex involved)? I'm sure it won't hurt her, she'll never remember it.

And if not, where WOULD you draw the line of allowing people to criticise?


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## ester (9 February 2017)

This was a year ago


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## Llewellyn (9 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			OK. Would you like to borrow my two year old daughter for a spot of light kiddy porn photography (no sex involved)? I'm sure it won't hurt her, she'll never remember it.

And if not, where WOULD you draw the line of allowing people to criticise?
		
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I think this is hugely off topic and a disturbing place your mind leaps to when discussing a pretty unrelated topic. Equally I would be careful the offers you make on public forums not everybody will pick up on the sarcasm and I wouldn't want anyone to report you for behaviour they felt would be dangerous to your children without the whole story. 

My point was people who take children on a bus are taking an unacceptable risk in my opinion as they can travel as fast as cars with no kind of restraint at all. Very few people would let their child do that in a car. But it would be wrong of me to judge them for a decision which in their mind is obviously perfectly fine even if I feel this is a case of life and death for the child.

I'm acutely aware of people's passion when it comes to parenting, having four children myself but find by and large keeping my opinions on other people's parenting to myself has served me well however right or wrong I think their risk assessments may be. 

I think on the topic of criminality we shouldn't judge but inform relevant authorities who can, hopefully unbiasly, cast judgement as to what our society feels is an appropriate punishment. This is not a crime and I doubt social services would take it as such as they don't feel children on the back of motorbikes is worthy of review I can see no reason their opinion would differ on horseback.


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## luckyoldme (9 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			OK. Would you like to borrow my two year old daughter for a spot of light kiddy porn photography (no sex involved)? I'm sure it won't hurt her, she'll never remember it.

And if not, where WOULD you draw the line of allowing people to criticise?
		
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im sure this topic could have been adequatley discussed without that crap.


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## Tyssandi (9 February 2017)

wow a year old post resurrected


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## popsdosh (9 February 2017)

Its not a new phenomena I would love to watch you tell this man he shouldnt be riding bareback with his 3yo son god no hats either! 







I think some of a certain generation will recognise him and the photo is well known.


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## Tiddlypom (9 February 2017)

Harvey Smith (I think it's him) hasn't strapped his son to his chest, though, and the child is not a baby, so not the same.


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## DabDab (9 February 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Harvey Smith (I think it's him) hasn't strapped his son to his chest, though, and the child is not a baby, so not the same.
		
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I would say the risk is about the same though? Aside from the dismounting issues. And why is it OK to endanger the life of a 3yo but not a baby?


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## Moomin1 (9 February 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Not something I personally would do but many people would put (hold) young babies up for a photo op, take 3 year olds for lessons on ponies, have toddlers up to a yard to feed carrots etc. And of course plenty of people take their kids on pedal bike seats on the road. What this lady was doing was essentially a little more dangerous than those things combined... And the baby was (presumably) with its mother rather than dumped while she pursued her hobby, which, assuming it makes it that far, will have measurably better outcomes into adulthood... So, unless we're condemning every parent who lets their child ride ponies and every parent who takes their kid on a push bike... Live and let live?
		
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So mothers aren't allowed to 'dump' their babies on a minder whilst they pursue a hobby?  They must be pinned to the baby every second of the day and not have any sort of separate life of their own?  Good grief.


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## Tiddlypom (9 February 2017)

DabDab said:



			I would say the risk is about the same though? Aside from the dismounting issues. And why is it OK to endanger the life of a 3yo but not a baby?
		
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It's not something I would do, but if they were both thrown from the horse, the child would likely have been thrown clear from his father. A strapped on baby would probably be at least partially crushed by the adult.


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## PaddyMonty (9 February 2017)

Absolutely no need to risk baby in that way. Wait until it's 3 then send it off on a pony without the benefit of an experienced rider.


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## SpringArising (9 February 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Its not a new phenomena I would love to watch you tell this man he shouldnt be riding bareback with his 3yo son
		
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Why?

I don't see the difference whether it's Joe Bloggs from down the road or someone well-known. The risk is there regardless - you're not exempt just because you have some kudos. Stupid decision either way.


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## Greylegs (9 February 2017)

I saw one a while ago riding down a busy road with a very young baby in a backpack type baby carrier - rider wearing a hat, baby had no protection at all. Can some people really not manage without riding for a while until they can find adequate baby care? Utter madness.


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## ycbm (9 February 2017)

DabDab said:



			I would say the risk is about the same though? Aside from the dismounting issues. And why is it OK to endanger the life of a 3yo but not a baby?
		
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You don't know much about babies, maybe? Their skulls are not fully formed and they are very fragile. When very young, they even have a hole in them, called a fontanelle


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## Fidgety (9 February 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Its not a new phenomena I would love to watch you tell this man he shouldnt be riding bareback with his 3yo son god no hats either!
		
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I those days those who thought themselves 'good' riders also thought wearing hats [outside the competition ring] was for a novice rider.  It was the same era where there was the school of thought by some that having a drink made them a sharper driver.  Thankfully we have (mostly) evolved a bit since then .


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## ester (9 February 2017)

Tbf the hats weren't going to protect from
much either


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## ycbm (9 February 2017)

Llewellyn said:



			I think this is hugely off topic and a disturbing place your mind leaps to when discussing a pretty unrelated topic. Equally I would be careful the offers you make on public forums not everybody will pick up on the sarcasm and I wouldn't want anyone to report you for behaviour they felt would be dangerous to your children without the whole story.
		
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I don't have any children. I'm amused that you think I would be stupid enough to write that if I did.

There was no sarcasm involved. It was a genuine question. You indicated that no-one should judge anyone else's behaviour regarding their children and I was asking you where you draw the line?

The fictional activity I proposed is less likely, imo, to harm a baby than riding with it in a papoose. You seem to draw the line at legal/illegal?  That line is only society's current view of what is and is not acceptable. I think we are all entitled to have opinions which don't necessarily correlate with the current law.


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## DabDab (9 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			You don't know much about babies, maybe? Their skulls are not fully formed and they are very fragile. When very young, they even have a hole in them, called a fontanelle
		
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Yes I am aware of that, but we are not talking about falling over, we're talking about a tumble from height alongside a half ton animal that can tread or kick you. That extra bit of skull will not make a huge difference in the grand scheme of the risk being taken here. In the same way as a catastrophic car crash wouldn't be comparatively less risky for a 2yo than a 9mo.


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## DabDab (9 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			I don't have any children. I'm amused that you think I would be stupid enough to write that if I did.

There was no sarcasm involved. It was a genuine question. You indicated that no-one should judge anyone else's behaviour regarding their children and I was asking you where you draw the line?

The fictional activity I proposed is less likely, imo, to harm a baby than riding with it in a papoose. You seem to draw the line at legal/illegal?  That line is only society's current view of what is and is not acceptable. I think we are all entitled to have opinions which don't necessarily correlate with the current law.
		
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You think deliberate sexual molestation of a child would be less harmful than taking a risk with their safety?! Please tell me you're joking


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## thatsmygirl (9 February 2017)

I had to read that twice.
People can be so stupid at times, unbelievable really


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## ycbm (9 February 2017)

DabDab said:



			You think deliberate sexual molestation of a child would be less harmful than taking a risk with their safety?! Please tell me you're joking
		
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Did you read what I wrote? I explicitly specified no sex involved.


The  important part of the discussion, imo, was what level of potentially harmful activity by parents we are are and are not 'allowed', according to you, to criticise?


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## ycbm (9 February 2017)

DabDab said:



			Yes I am aware of that, but we are not talking about falling over, we're talking about a tumble from height alongside a half ton animal that can tread or kick you. That extra bit of skull will not make a huge difference in the grand scheme of the risk being taken here. In the same way as a catastrophic car crash wouldn't be comparatively less risky for a 2yo than a 9mo.
		
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But we aren't taking about a car crash. We're talking about dismounting badly, stumbling and knocking the baby's head or jolting its neck. Having a gentle tumble due to a misstep by the horse and squashing the baby's head under you or knocking it.  It is far, far more risky to shake a young baby's brain or knock a young baby's head than it is an older child.


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## ycbm (9 February 2017)

Dupe


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## FfionWinnie (9 February 2017)

Strapping a baby to one's chest is an entirely different thing to what was almost certainly a posed photo of a child sitting on a horse in walk with at least one foot follower (the photographer). Plus it's rather different times (even the op is a different time!)


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## MotherOfChickens (9 February 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Its not a new phenomena I would love to watch you tell this man he shouldnt be riding bareback with his 3yo son god no hats either! 







I think some of a certain generation will recognise him and the photo is well known.
		
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I absolutely love this photo 

no comment aside from that.


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## Ladyinred (9 February 2017)

Just last year OH saw a woman on a horse on a very busy A road. She was leading a toddler on a pony and had a baby in a carrier on her back.

Pure selfishness that her desire to ride endangers her babies.


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## popsdosh (9 February 2017)

To me im glad we actually live in a society were we still have the choice! We all do things others dont agree with ,I certainly have never heard of any bad accidents with children as described in OP . There will be many children every year injured in accidents whilst in a pushchair even struck by vehicles. I am always horrified every time I see a pushbike with a baby in a trailer on the back is it really more dangerous to do as described in the OP.


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## SpringArising (9 February 2017)

popsdosh said:



			I am always horrified every time I see a pushbike with a baby in a trailer on the back is it really more dangerous to do as described in the OP.
		
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Yes, much more. The bike isn't going to bolt off with the rider, buck, rear, spook or trip. 

A bike 'trailer' is about 1ft off the floor probably going about 9mph max.


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## popsdosh (9 February 2017)

SpringArising said:



			Yes, much more. The bike isn't going to bolt off with the rider, buck, rear, spook or trip. 

A bike 'trailer' is about 1ft off the floor probably going about 9mph max.
		
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 Just the right height to get hit by a car! 
We can all imagine what may happen however it rarely does.


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## GirlFriday (9 February 2017)

Moomin1 said:



			So mothers aren't allowed to 'dump' their babies on a minder whilst they pursue a hobby?  They must be pinned to the baby every second of the day and not have any sort of separate life of their own?  Good grief.
		
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'Course they are. But babies (very young ones especially) much prefer it if they don't. That was the point... There are pros and cons to everything.


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## GirlFriday (9 February 2017)

DabDab said:



			I would say the risk is about the same though? Aside from the dismounting issues. And why is it OK to endanger the life of a 3yo but not a baby?
		
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Exactly this.

There are very few people on here who would criticise parents who let young kids SJ/hunt/etc. Plenty of them break bones or worse.

They are still often way too young to asses risks themselves so it is really still the parents' responsibility to do so. 

They are legally allowed on motor bikes as soon as their feet can reach the foot pegs... and in bike carrier/trailer/etc things from birth.


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