# Magnetic hock boots - worth it?



## Captain Bridget (3 July 2014)

As the title. My boy has been diagnosed with hock arthritis, the bones in the hock have fused, he's has tildren and steroid injections. He's on a joint supplement and turmeric. 

The Premier Equine magnetic hock boots are on sale and I wondered if they were worth getting and if they would help him? He's turned out 24/7 at the moment but in at night over the winter so they would probably get more use when he's in. 

Has anyone used them/similar boots and got any feedback?


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## khalswitz (3 July 2014)

My thermographer was involved in testing magnetic boots and rugs to note changes in circulation. She says they absolutely work, you can see the physiological changes.


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## JFTDWS (3 July 2014)

khalswitz said:



			My thermographer was involved in testing magnetic boots and rugs to note changes in circulation. She says they absolutely work, you can see the physiological changes.
		
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Then she should really publish her findings, as the general consensus in all decently controlled studies is that magnetic therapy has no effects at all.


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## midogrey (3 July 2014)

JFTD said:



			Then she should really publish her findings, as the general consensus in all decently controlled studies is that magnetic therapy has no effects at all.
		
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Agree, no conclusive studies in humans or animals but there is a strong placebo effect


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## ILuvCowparsely (3 July 2014)

I found my harpley magnetic hock boots great when I need some warmth and help on my mares hock.

 I only sold them as they were too big for my mare and so brought smaller ones


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## NeverSayNever (3 July 2014)

i asked my vet about using these; i have a pony who came to me very overweight and isn&#8217;t the type to move about much in the field  When bringing him back into work and bringing him in and off the grass he kept getting filled legs and swollen hocks. He was xrayed and they were all clear and my vet advised to keep him moving as much as possible and to use the magnetic boots. He said they do increase blood flow and when you want fluid to dissipate, as long as they are keeping moving then it was worth using them. It may be because his weight is so much better and he is getting more exercise so I cant say for sure but since using them it doesn&#8217;t happen anymore. He also said he wore a bracelet himself for arthritis or something and really thought it helped.


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## Captain Bridget (3 July 2014)

I've just ordered them, so fingers crossed either than they actually do something or just the added warmth of them in the winter helps him. 

I also ordered a magnetic browband to try, it says it can aid stress relief, calming before competitions and aids concentration so will see how it goes!


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## khalswitz (3 July 2014)

JFTD said:



			Then she should really publish her findings, as the general consensus in all decently controlled studies is that magnetic therapy has no effects at all.
		
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Interesting - I didn't know that. Her company do testing for lots of equine products, that was one she mentioned when we were discussing it one day. She will have the images somewhere, I'd imagine. I'll mention it to her.

Never used them myself personally.


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## JFTDWS (3 July 2014)

khalswitz said:



			Interesting - I didn't know that. Her company do testing for lots of equine products, that was one she mentioned when we were discussing it one day. She will have the images somewhere, I'd imagine. I'll mention it to her.

Never used them myself personally.
		
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Thing is, it's not just about having the pics to prove it - the whole trial needs to be designed to show a genuine result.  It's very easy to get artefacts or interpreter bias if it's not being done in a suitably blinded and controlled way.  One of the big things with magnets is that they make the tissues underneath warmer (not an effect of the magnets, just the lump of metal!) which can give misleading results.  Indeed, some people use them purely for this effect.

That said, the general consensus is that they also do no harm, so you're not risking anything by trying them other than your investment!


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## saddlesore (3 July 2014)

I've used them and known others to use them to great effect. Old horse used to be stiff coming out of stable and had filled legs, magnetic boots made SUCH a difference. You can't get a placebo effect on an animal!


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## TequilaMist (3 July 2014)

saddlesore said:



			I've used them and known others to use them to great effect. Old horse used to be stiff coming out of stable and had filled legs, magnetic boots made SUCH a difference. You can't get a placebo effect on an animal!
		
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According to our dogs vet some can. Dogs apparently do respond to  placebos.He said it in response to a jokey comment I made re our dog. I think it was to do with injections but can't swear to that.
I have no reason to doubt him tho can't understand how it would work!

I have used magnetic boots and they appear to have helped a lot when I have used them(bioflow ones). And as long as they  do no harm will use them regardless of 'proof' of if they work.


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## JFTDWS (3 July 2014)

saddlesore said:



			You can't get a placebo effect on an animal!
		
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You absolutely can - and in children too - the placebo effect by proxy if you like. It's very well documented and worth reading up on - it's a fascinating topic.


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## saddlesore (3 July 2014)

I don't understand how that can possibly work? Not saying it can't but it makes no sense! Either way, if a placebo effect does the job then why not


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## wattamus (3 July 2014)

I used them on my horse in the past and they worked wonders, now whether it was the magnets themselves or just the extra warmth around the hocks I don't know but definitely worth a try


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## Captain Bridget (3 July 2014)

How long did people use them for and how long did it take to see a difference?


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## wattamus (3 July 2014)

Used them overnight originally but was then informed that I shouldn't do that! (no bad effects)  Usually a couple of hours, even 30 mins before work to help warm the joints. I saw a difference straight away and it kept improving the more I used them.


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## Pearlsasinger (3 July 2014)

saddlesore said:



			I've used them and known others to use them to great effect. Old horse used to be stiff coming out of stable and had filled legs, magnetic boots made SUCH a difference. You can't get a placebo effect on an animal!
		
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I had a mare who was arthritic and very lame on the maximum dose of bute that she could have.  The next step was PTS.  A friend recommended BioFlow magnetic leg wraps.  I rang the local rep that day and put them on her at teatime.  As per the instructions, she wore them for 24 hrs, going out to graze for about 12 hrs during the day.  She TROTTED in that evening for her tea.  It was almost unbelievable, she had not been comfortable enough to trot for a while.  She must have felt that the wraps were beneficial because she got into the habit of holding the appropriate foot up when it was time to put them on.  We used them for 3 months and the effect continued.  Unfortunately she then had a stroke, which I don't believe had anything to do with the magnets and was pts.


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## JFTDWS (3 July 2014)

saddlesore said:



			I don't understand how that can possibly work? Not saying it can't but it makes no sense! Either way, if a placebo effect does the job then why not 

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Google it - it's all very interesting.  I really don't mind what people do with their money, and if they're happy with the placebo effect, great - I just think people should be informed about all the facts - the (lack of) scientific evidence as well as the more positive anecdotes


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## saddlesore (3 July 2014)

I'm happy (for the most part) with anecdotes . Especially when I've witnessed the effects. Magnets also helped with pain in my thrice broken ankle. Is recommend them, but I'm a bit of a hippy


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## saddlesore (3 July 2014)

Captain Bridget said:



			How long did people use them for and how long did it take to see a difference?
		
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The N.E.W ones you can build up to wearing for 23 hours so my horse wore them overnight all winter. Difference was immediately noticeable- ie the next morning


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## khalswitz (4 July 2014)

JFTD said:



			Google it - it's all very interesting.  I really don't mind what people do with their money, and if they're happy with the placebo effect, great - I just think people should be informed about all the facts - the (lack of) scientific evidence as well as the more positive anecdotes 

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This is true. There is lack of evidence regarding glucosamine for example - it has been shown to reduce inflammation in far on osteoarthritic cases, but absolutely no evidence to support it preventing OA or maintaining healthy joints, yet many people swear by it.


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## Liz H (5 July 2014)

My mare suffered from " elephant legs when stabled. Lots of vet bills and such later ( new owner at the time, paranoid). Saw and bought Bioflow boots with the assurance of money back if not happy. Worked like a dream, still have them and the tendon wraps, but of a cure all realy. So impressed I bought my old shepherd a collar, able to take her off metacam after a month or wearing. You can't fool animals.


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## midogrey (5 July 2014)

This thread is a wonderful example of how the vitamin industry etc makes so much money. What I am reading here is the classic example of confusing correlation with causation and positive cognitive distortion, ie how our beliefs cause us to filter evidence.
It also means that those who believe such therapies work will continue to do so likewise those that don't . There are excellent studies to show all of this. Even the way a vet or doctor talks about a treatment will effect its perceived outcome. From a psychologists point of view this thread is great! In fact this very thread will have had an effect. Similar to the recent Facebook mood manipulation experiment.


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## JFTDWS (5 July 2014)

khalswitz said:



			This is true. There is lack of evidence regarding glucosamine for example - it has been shown to reduce inflammation in far on osteoarthritic cases, but absolutely no evidence to support it preventing OA or maintaining healthy joints, yet many people swear by it.
		
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Don't start me on the bioavailability of glucosamine...  The placebo effect is strong with this example too


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## NativePonyLover (5 July 2014)

I used a magnetic back pad on my old horse & recently bought a pair of Premier Equine magnetic over reach boots for my NF, following some minor hoof problems. 

I've seen great results in both my horses & I am a big believer they work in my experience. 

But then, I am a possibly a hippie at heart too as scientific studies don't necessarily hold a lot of weight with me. 

I hope they work for your boy


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## Pearlsasinger (5 July 2014)

I often wonder how any scientific discoveries are made.
It seems that scientists are not interested in taking anecdotal evidence from a range of sources at face value and working out why some things worked in particular cases but not in others.

Or perhaps it is just that some scientists have closed minds while others are open to different pov and more lateral thinkers and the latter are the ones who make the discoveries, while the former merely work in the previously known areas.


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## midogrey (5 July 2014)

But that is how science works, taking anecdotal evidence and then Looking at all the different possible causes and designing a trial to test the hypothesis, the best being a double blind. Personally I just don't know if magnetic therapy works or not but clearly some people have a positive experience and that's great. My point is quite simply that currently there is only annectodal evidence so if the question is posed "do they work" then currently the best one can say is that some people have found them usefull.


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## pippixox (5 July 2014)

i cant personally comment on magnetic boots
my boy has arthritic hocks and legs can swell overnight in the stable- especially the fronts- but i just bought bandages- fleece ones- and the warmth and support stopped the swelling and less stiff in the morning.
i do know some people who swear by 'back on track' products- which admit heat from some kind of ceramic- again not sure how it actually works.


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## Illusion100 (5 July 2014)

I don't believe Magnotherapy is a cure-all, however I have found the benefits to be enough to purchase a magnetic rug and a set of magnetic boots many years ago.

On SJ morning of 3DE, horses much looser and supple when Magnotherapy was applied the XC evening 'til morning. 

As a Scientist, a sceptical one at that, I do find this treatment to be beneficial in many cases to varying degrees of effect depending on factors involved.


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## khalswitz (8 July 2014)

JFTD said:



			Don't start me on the bioavailability of glucosamine...  The placebo effect is strong with this example too 

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Yup  I remember reading a paper where there was a HUGE analgesic effect seen giving glucosamine... and then the same effect noted with the placebo. And the number of people who swear it keeps them more mobile/feed it to their horse 'just in case', it does make me cringe a bit.

Now I'm no scientist (studied science at uni but I preferred philosophy of scientific theory to the actual science...), but when reading in 'Which' magazine that under advertising law it is illegal to claim a glucosamine supplement aids in joint health, it made me really question it...

I do agree that if it works as a placebo, then it isn't really wasted money (for example my Mum does Reiki, which I personally have felt makes a difference to me despite my scepticism, but I can accept that it is obviously a good placebo), so magnet therapy isn't necessarily a waste of time at all even if the studies don't back it up.

Interestingly, electromagnetic therapy on the other hand is commonly used and proven to work int rems of stimulating bloodflow.


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## Elf On A Shelf (8 July 2014)

We have a horse on the yard who has seriously screwed up hocks from kicking the crap out of walls at feed time. Arthritis, fusing, thoroughpins the works. He has had them injected a few times but won't go onto Tildren as he is a racehorse and the withdrawal period is too long to be of use. He wears the new Icevibe boots and he is much sounder and moves much better behind for them than he ever did. He's still not perfect but he is much much happier. 3 - 4 rounds a day depending on how much work he has done and lower legs bandaged with the gamgee that has the hock shaping on overnight.


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## tabithakat64 (9 July 2014)

I think they do help in some cases.  If not then using them doesn't do any harm...


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