# Thinking of starting a livery yard...



## DawnF (4 June 2008)

Has anyone recently started a livery yard? Do you own/run one? Can you give me any pointers I am considering starting one up in Derbyshire but have some queries with regards liability insurance, business insurance and care and custody insurance ie how much you pay and recommended insurance companies. Plus could anyone give me an example of business rates they pay for how much Sq foot? I appreciate that different parts of the country are rated differently but would be interested to know as a comparison. Any general advice would also be appreciated. Thanks x.


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## nelliefinellie (4 June 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone recently started a livery yard? Do you own/run one? Can you give me any pointers I am considering starting one up 

[/ QUOTE ]

Find a rich man and a cheap supply of prozac


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## genie (4 June 2008)

LMAO armchair...........LOLOLOLOLOL&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;..obviously you have been down this road too?lolol.


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## chriscrogul (4 June 2008)

DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!


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## DawnF (4 June 2008)

Constructive comments anyone?


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## MistletoeMegan (4 June 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Constructive comments anyone? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I would that they are pretty constructive. Seriously, the advice you will get from most people on here is not to do it. 

If the advice given isn't what you want to read, then PM _Claire_ as she has recently opened a DIY yard.


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## DawnF (4 June 2008)

Sorry Megan 2006, but 'find a rich man' and 'don't do it' are not what I consider to be constructive. If the 'don't do it' was backed up with reasons why then yes, that would have been a constructive comment. 

Thanks though for telling me about Claire I'll do that.


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## MistletoeMegan (4 June 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Megan 2006, but 'find a rich man' and 'don't do it' are not what I consider to be constructive. If the 'don't do it' was backed up with reasons why then yes, that would have been a constructive comment. 

Thanks though for telling me about Claire I'll do that. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not, but if someone replies to your post then it is polite to at least acknowledge them


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## mccarron6769 (4 June 2008)

Do you already have a large piece of land or a farm that you're looking to convert?  Do you have a substantial amount of money to invest?  I think joking aside the advice written here is to try and protect you.  A lot of us have a dream about running a good livery yard but there are numerous good yards already established in Derbyshire that you would be competing against so unless you have a farm / land to convert it may be prohibitive.  Have you got a business plan put together already and you're just looking for the additional info to complete that ahead of looking for investment??


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## DawnF (4 June 2008)

Megan you quoted my acknowledgement.

Moodymare96; yes I do already own the land and buildings (just need to convert to make some more stables) and yes the money is there. I am literally trying to find holes in my business plan and thought that if I put up a post on here while I am waiting for some info to come back to me and the rates be decided etc I could then compare. I was basically just using this forum as a sounding board and comparison.


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## c7mlm (4 June 2008)

i agree with all the constructive points about not bothering. i did it for 1 year and in that time i threw about £10k at it. I was renting and my lease was for a year so i was tied in legally. i was getting to yard at 6am, then holding down a full time job to subsidise it then going back at 5pm and leaving for home at 8pm. i never had time with my horses as liverys where always wanting me to look at something, be it a little scratch, show schedule, new fly mask etc etc. i did not eat properly, i was always asleep by 9pm and my social life was non exisitent. i was doing this with my OH and he worked full time and did a half the work, like harrowing the school, mending fencing that we had only replaced the day before, filling up the waters, changing light bulbs in stables. In the end i looked hagard and my life was cr*p so we gave it up. horse now back in livery and i am the best livery  
	
	
		
		
	


	




as i know now what them poor YO go through. I forgot to mention chasing for livery and cheques bouncing then they run of without giving you a months notice which it states in contract.
i should write a book how to kill yourself in 1year


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## nelliefinellie (4 June 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Constructive comments anyone? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you'll find many YO's online at this time of day, just us sad frustrated (but regularly paid) office workers.

All the YO's are out there working their fingers to the bone


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## DawnF (4 June 2008)

C7mlm; I can see why you are so negative about it, I honestly don't know how you managed having a full time job at the same time! I suppose I am lucky as I will not have to go through that amount of stress - just the usual stress of any business that involves people, long hours, hard physical work, animals etc. I recently sold my tack shop to one of my customers so I appreciate how even the customers minor ailments seem to become my business never mind the horses! I do believe I am going into this with my eyes wide open and accept the risks as does anyone starting a business.

Does anyone have any positive comments?


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## DawnF (4 June 2008)

Quote: I don't think you'll find many YO's online at this time of day, just us sad frustrated (but regularly paid) office workers.

All the YO's are out there working their fingers to the bone  
	
	
		
		
	


	









[/ QUOTE ]

LOL I guess you're right, hopefully I might catch the odd one though! Plus I can always check on here again tonight.


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## SALLYT (4 June 2008)

Not on business costs , but as a livery on a yard near Uttoxeter, I know our YO is turning people away, and could have rented the boxes out many times. The business is out there I think it all depends on how you run the yard, shabby ones are ten a penny. That is just my opinion.

Good luck anyway


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## Bossanova (4 June 2008)

What type of livery are you considering offering- my advice will depend upon that!


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## charlie76 (4 June 2008)

I have been thinking of doing the same. I have got my BHSI so would combine running it with some teaching to help with the income.
I think you must be organised and be prepared to put up with some odd people! However I have been running an equestrian centre/ riding schoo/show centre/ training yard with almost 90 horses for the past 5 years so hopefully a small livery yard will be a welcome relief!


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## DawnF (4 June 2008)

Im_addicted I am based not too far from Uttoxeter (just further down the A50) I'll pm you! It's similar with yards around me.

Bossanova - to start off with all levels of liveries then once established I'll only accept new part/full/comp/hunt liveries.


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## Vix1978 (4 June 2008)

I have been running my livery yard for about 18 months now and still combine it with a full time job to cover my living costs.
Yes - there are the 5:30 starts and leaving the yard after 9 after a full day in the office, yes y horses do tend to get put on the back burner whilst I tend to all the other horses/liveries, and yes you will have absolutely no social life. BUT I wouldn't swap it for the world and just hope I can drop the office job soon and subside purely on the yard - especially now my sales liveries are taking off.
To start with I offered all types of livery, but now only take in new full/schooling/sales livery - there is no money to be made in DIY - especially if you do not own your land.
We insure through Shearwater, who I've found very helpful. Rates are also reduced by ~25% if you are BHS registered. With regards to business rates, ring up the VOA office (or look on their website VOA office and that will be the best starter for 10.
You will alos need to decide how you are going to operate i.e sole trader, llp etc. If there is any type of limited liability then you will have to inaugurate and file returns through  companies house .

BTW - on the plus side you can eat what you like without having to worry about putting on weight  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Let me know if you have any more questions and good luck!!!


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## louisem (4 June 2008)

It IS a difficult time to start a livery business at the moment,basically because costs are higher than they have ever been (feed,bedding,hay and diesel etc) any new yard manager will really have to 'prove' themselves in the first few months. Sorry I can't really give advice on legal matters. All I can say is make sure all parties are clear beforehand on ALL arrangements concerning horsey AND payment. This is something I have had problems with in the past,and learnt the hard way!!!!
Other than that....Best of luck!


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## DawnF (4 June 2008)

Vix1978 you're a star! Thanks for the info. I have had one quote from Shearwater which I thought was reasonable. Do you have business, public liability and care and custody with them (if you have all them?). Hope you get to quit your office job soon!!! Thanks for saying I can ask you more questions! I won't bombard you but over the next couple of weeks it would br great to be able to ask someone the odd question - via pm.

Thanks again x


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## DawnF (4 June 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I have been thinking of doing the same. I have got my BHSI so would combine running it with some teaching to help with the income.
I think you must be organised and be prepared to put up with some odd people! However I have been running an equestrian centre/ riding schoo/show centre/ training yard with almost 90 horses for the past 5 years so hopefully a small livery yard will be a welcome relief! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Have PM'd you x


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## MillionDollar (4 June 2008)

Hi, I'm a YO, our livery yard has been open for 6 weeks now. I love it so far! So much better than an office job. Ok, so I get up at 5.45am every morning BUT I have so much time for myself/horses during the day as I get all the jobs done in the morning. At the weekends I get up, open up, etc and half an hour later go back to bed for a couple of hours. 

I'm sure there will be PLENTY of hard times ahead, but my sister is running the yard with me from October and I do really like it  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Just do lots of research. If there are a lot of yards in the area already how can you make yours different? We decided to put in a lot of facilities and it seems to have worked we already have 18 stables full/booked.

Will you be renting the yard? This is where it is hard to make money TBH as it's dead money, I'm very lucky that we diversified a farm. I know of a yard down the road, just 10 stables and turnout, thats it, and they rent it for £21,000 per year  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 plus they spent £10k doing it up.

I'm with the NFU for insurance and that costs £1,400 per year for a 30 horse yard.

PM me if you want anymore details


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## Bossanova (4 June 2008)

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Bossanova - to start off with all levels of liveries then once established I'll only accept new part/full/comp/hunt liveries. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I would go straight in with full and part. It is far easier to manage when you know what the responsibilities are and all the horses are on the same routine.
Realisitcally, one member of staff can care for 8 horses on full livery (that includes exercising 2 or 3) but not many more without it being very hard work.
At home we have 17 boxes with generally about 15 horses in all year round and a few extras coming and going (schooling, breaking, selling etc) so we have 2 full time members of staff and a few part timers so that there are generally 3 people in the morning and 2 in the afternoon with two days a week being just 2 people all day (on the full time girl's days off) Weekends are a bit different because we have an army of little people who help out in return for lessons/experience/for fun.

Alongside our full liveries, my sister teaches and thats the only thing that earns money. The liveries break even- they cost a huge amount in hay, bedding and hard feed. We arent a riding school, she only teaches on one of our schoolmasters, on our mechanical horse or on people's own horses.

It's blooming hard work trying to make money out of liveries. Staff are a nightmare. Our owners are wonderful but we've been running 20 years and have earnt a good reputation so that we draw in top class clients.


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## DawnF (4 June 2008)

Thanks _Claire_ that's really kind of you. I am just off out now to see the planning people about an indoor school so will reply properly prob tonight! Thanks again!!!


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## Vix1978 (4 June 2008)

No probs
and yes - I have all three through them 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Vix x


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## Vix1978 (4 June 2008)

Agree with staff - I once had a girl turn up to interview in her slippers!  
	
	
		
		
	


	




Thank God my head girl is a diamond...


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## MillionDollar (4 June 2008)

I am very lucky in that my family owns the land/farm/yard and they are all very supportive/helpful. I have a great social life (my mum or sister locks up for me) and I do have time (plenty of time too) for my horses. 

We offer DIY/ assisted DIY and from the first 4 weeks of only having 8 horses we made a couple of hundred pounds just from the services (turning out, etc). 

We're hoping that by the end of the year we'll have at least 22 DIYers and a couple of Part/Full liveries. The liveries have strict rules, and they are told as soon as anything is not stuck too. Also we get them to buy all forage/bedding off us and it isn't included in the price....so we're not paying for it!!!


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## luckilotti (4 June 2008)

hi 
its not all doom and gloom as a YO - yes, there are many ups and downs, people do midnight flits owing money, cheques bounce, people try and sue you, if you throw someone off they spread rumors, there is always something that needs doing (painting stables, a bit of fencing, moving bedding etc) but when you see how happy a place your yard can be, how chilled and happy the horses are, you hear people saying how good your yard is, plus a load of other stuff it is really good!  
I have been a YO now for coming up 8 years (yikes!) and now my mum helps me out but in that time, i have done a 3 year degree at uni, had twins and done loads of other stuff and the yard has never stopped me.  
Re Insurance, it really is best to call around for quotes, we are with NFU after a bad experience with another company (we added extra horses onto the policy, they took the money - and never added them on!) 
I'd say def stick with your rules and if possible 'pick' your liveries, its always better to have an empty stable than a trouble maker who would make other liveries leave.  
i could offer loads of other advice but i'm short of time, if there is any other questions you can think of please feel free to pm me.


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## chriscrogul (4 June 2008)

I'm sorry if my Don't Do It!  comment wasn't very constructive, I'm just very p'd off with my liveries at the moment!  I took on a yard 7 months ago that has had no upkeep/maintenance done for a good 10 years.  One lady who owns two horses (well, they're her kids) stayed as asissted diy; it was she who leased the yard prior to me, so she knows the downside of it all!  It's a 4 acre, 17 box yard, the fields have never been rested. I'm not running it as a business, I have a full time job, its the satisfaction of having MY yard, a little base to compete from.  I pay more for my stable than my liveries do for theirs, I could go be a diy somewhere else and not have the hassle, but I want my own place. Not to mention the £500 spent removing the skyscraper size muck heap, or the £1000 on fencing and gates!  Yes, my decision to take on the yard, my decision to do the work.  I could fill the boxes up (like she did before me) but I have limited it to 5 so that the fields can have a rest.  I have totally mullered my top field over the winter, putting hay out every day, so the horses can be turned out every day.  We are worming this weekend then at long last we can put them out on GRASS!! (I won't catch mine for a week)!  yet my friend (who liveries her two ponies with me) said that the others came up today, felt sorry for their two out with no grass, and put them in the rested field.  The plus side to them is they are prompt payers, and only come up at the weekends.  But I have to get to the yard 20 minutes earlier on a Monday to sort out the mess, or stay late on Sunday nights. I'm going to stop now, before this rant runs away with me, but my advice is;
1- get everything, and I mean everything, in writing.
2- don't do favours, keep it business like.
3- have lots of rules!


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## dwi (4 June 2008)

Whereabouts are you? I'm on the Derbyshire/Staffordshire border and there are loads of liveries around here. If you're interested to know what's on the market already to see what you would be up against pm me


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## Comanche (4 June 2008)

I have recently had two horses on my yard that have caused me major probs. Horses are your responsibility when they are on your land - even if you don't own them. We had a livery who refused to feed her anglo arab as it would make her fizzy - the horse rapidly became a bag of bones and we had to bear the cost of feeding it, which we had to do in secret as the owner point blamk refused to see the problem. She eventually got a job elsewhere and abandoned the horse altogether. The first we knew was when someone came to buy her - we begged the woman to take her cos she was in need of a good home. We had no money for the horse at all! In fact the owner demanded money for a lesson she had taught despite never once paying any livery. The second one has been a similar situation. The horse was lame and so we got a vet in cos the owner wanted to put him on working livery. We paid his bill and discovered that he was unrideable and incurable. His owner has not been seen on my yard since 3rd March. This is a 17.3hh standard bred who eats like a well...a horse. We have paid his feed, his farriery and his vets bills. She owes us over 1000k. My advice - make sure your contracts are foolproof and signed as soon as the owner agrees to come to you. Don't leave it a moment longer!


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## shellibob (7 June 2008)

If you open one in the derbyshire area please let me know where as we are desperately looking for some where decent for our horses!! there is not many


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