# Laminitic??? How much hay??



## Rollin (14 July 2010)

My very good doer mare came in lame from the field two weeks ago.  I thought lami, but no pulse, hot feet or sitting back on her heels.

Farrier was here the following day and re-shod her.  He said she did not have laminitis. I kept her in. No improvement so vet called who took one look at her and said laminitis.

After two weeks on box rest, with pain killers and drugs to help circulation.  She is no better.  She is also not losing weight.

She is a 15.3hh cob who has always been a fatty.  I give her 3 small hay nets a day with 2pounds of hay and a little more hay at 11.00pm.  She gets a double handful of safe and sound with half a mug of non-molassed very wet s/b am and pm.

Am I feeding too much?  In my limited experience of ponies with lami - they improve very quickly when stabled and given pain relief.  She can hardly move in her box.

Prior to this episode she had been stabled from 7.00am to 9.00 pm and trickle fed hay, since April, with daily road walking and canter work only on a sand menage.


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## makkapakka (14 July 2010)

Not an expert and had my own scare recently; did your vet not suggest a suitable diet or comment on weight? I do know grains can overload horses system and maybe if pony is not in work/very light work and a good doer, then no hard feed required at all? Have you weighed/tape measured the pony and accurately weighed the hay? As a rough guide daily feed of 2.5% bodyweight (but probably 2% if overweight or a good doer). Also hay can be high in calories but soaking can remove some of calories whilst still retaining fibre/quanity for chewing/digestion.  Also just clarify it is hay and not haylage you are feeding. I would really be looking to vet for advice and recommendations on feeding and management. Hope it improves soon.


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## amandap (14 July 2010)

Soak the hay at least one hour preferably 12 hours and rinse well if you're not doing already. Free choice soaked hay should always be available as periods without eating cause more stress on an already stressed body. If she's overweight then small holed nets can be used to slow her down etc.

Have a look at these articles as a starter. http://www.hoofrehab.com/hoof articles by Pete Ramey.htm

If she's wearing normal shoes with no pads then a deep 4ins shavings bed covering the whole floor may help comfort. Look at giving loose salt and magnesiun oxide too as well. Diet imbalance, too much sugar, mineral imbalance etc.appears to be the most common feature affecting laminitis from what I've learned.


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## abercrombie&titch (14 July 2010)

If she has laminitis has she got frog supports on? At 15.3 and cobby these are a 'must have' I should think! The standard advice for feeding a laminitic is not feed any hard feed at all, just a very small amount of laminitis friendly chaff with a multi vitamin type powder to make sure she has all her micro nutrients. If she is fat (you need a weigh tape and to do a body condition score) you can safely drop to 1.5% of bodyweight on forage, but if she is not having enough faecal output (between 5-8 per 24hr period) you can increase it with good quality straw, and make sure all hay is well soaked for 24hrs and then rinsed and drained before feeding. Make sure the bed is very deep (wood fibre gives very good support and moves little under bigger horses, but whatever you use it must be really deep) and is all the way to the door.
If she is not improving after two weeks, I really think you should get the vet back - and you can ask your vet to advise re weight loss, feeding regime,  clinical work up etc. Hope she is feeling better soon.


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## Rollin (14 July 2010)

She is not getting any grain.  We had rain today the first for a month and with temps last week of 38deg no rich pasture!!!

2% of 500kg is 10kg/day so she is getting half of that.  That is why I asked the question. I haven't soaked her hay so will try that.  Fortunately I do still have a little of last years hay. Thank you.


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## Rollin (14 July 2010)

Abercrombie - she is getting Safe and Sound - not grain it is recommended by Laminitis Trust.   Yes she does have frog supports.

Vets here have odd ideas about laminitis.  I was told to feed straw and water - the Laminitis Trust do not recommend those sort of feed regimes.


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## soloequestrian (14 July 2010)

You could have a look at Jaime Jackson's book 'Founder, it's prevention and cure'.  It's a really interesting read.
On a different note, I did hear a tale (I don't think it was an urban myth) of a horse who was treated for laminitis for ages and eventually hospitalised, only to be diagnosed then with a solar abscess.  Might be worth having some x-rays done if you are worried.


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## amandap (14 July 2010)

Jaime Jackson's Founder book is great but sounds like it might be at the opposite end of the healing spectrum from your vet. Do get it for an eye opener or fresh look though.

The other thing is no grass! Grass is such a difficult feed in laminitis. Dry stressed grass can be high in sugars so as well as definitely soaking the hay consider taking her off grass completely if possible and see it that helps.


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## Rollin (14 July 2010)

She has been off grass completely for two weeks.  I am puzzled that she has not improved.  I did not think she had laminitis nor did my farrier.  I don't know what else to look for.

We have had her x-rayed and it showed a tiny bit of rotation on lame foot.  BUT she went away to stud in France two years ago and they suddenly stopped all her feed.  When she came home she was slightly lame from time to time and my farrier thought she had had laminitis I replied 'not with me' so something happened when she was away. - I have had her for six years with no problems except when she went away.

My vet could not tell from the x-ray if the rotation was old or recent.


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## Sam22 (14 July 2010)

It sounds like she has equine metabolic syndrome which is why she got laminitis and why she is strugling to loose weight. I suggest you get a blood test done to check for insulin levels and she will probably need to go on metformin before she will loose weight. As for how much to feed if she hasn't lost weight (i assume you a measuring properly with a weigh tape) then you are feeding too much. I would never drop the forage below 1.5% body weight however.


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## Rollin (14 July 2010)

Sam22 said:



			It sounds like she has equine metabolic syndrome which is why she got laminitis and why she is strugling to loose weight. I suggest you get a blood test done to check for insulin levels and she will probably need to go on metformin before she will loose weight. As for how much to feed if she hasn't lost weight (i assume you a measuring properly with a weigh tape) then you are feeding too much. I would never drop the forage below 1.5% body weight however.
		
Click to expand...

I suggested a blood test and my vet said 'what do I test for?'  She is getting below 1.5% of body weight.


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## Sam22 (14 July 2010)

Rollin I will PM you with proper advise tomorrow when I have time, please PM me your address and I will post you some up to date information. Sorry if already posted but please tell me how much your horse weighs in kilos too. It is not good to feed less than 1.5% body weight because she will mobilise to much fat from her stores at once which can cause other problems. I would never expect a horse on box rest to be loosing weight because they are not burning any calories so don't worry too much about that until she is sound. I guess she ways at least 500kg which means 7.5kg of hay per 24hrs soaked for 12 hours plus the safe and sound.


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## Rollin (15 July 2010)

Thank you Sam I will send you my email address.


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## brucea (15 July 2010)

The Magox will help, and maybe yea-sac to tone up the digestion. Our laminitics do well on that.

Soaked hay - last year's if you have it (I get hay supplier to keep back for me) helps - I don't use nets beucase they damage the teeth, instead put it all over the enclusure, in racks etc. 

Mineral balance is key - I use a local supplement for our local soil conditions (maybe you have something similar locally)

As soon as she can walk out in boots then it's a good idea to do as much as they feel comfortable with - it helps the healing to progress. Don't let the vet/farrier shoe her

You're doing most of the right things by the sound of it. We use the unmolassed beet with our 2 lamis - they get on fine with it - but I rinse it after soaking and use a collander. Probably overkill, but hey, who knows.

Boredom is a big problem for them - so visit often and maybe leave a radio on. Get other folks in the yard to say hello and cuddle as they pass, sit and read a book with her. They do feel pretty crappy and company really helps them.


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## Lotty (15 July 2010)

Hi Rollin, I really do feel for you.

My mare was diagnosed with laminitis at the end of March, she has bute & sedalin every day and is now wearing her 4th set of Imprint shoes. I feed my mare 1.5% of her body weight as she is a good doer. I soak her hay for 12hours and put it in 2 small holed nets. She also has Happy Hoof morning & night with magnesium. She has been blood tested ACTH also a routine blood test & both were normal

My mare is 16.1hh half warmblood/quarter TB/quarter Shire and is quite a big set girl. She started to recover really well until 5wks ago we had a set back. As she was favouring one leg the other foot started to slightly rotate. She's been stabled now for nearly 4months and I'm tearing my hair out as I don't see any improvement. I spoke to my vet yesterday and did voice my opinions - I am thinking now - 2nd opinion from another vet.

.


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## Rollin (16 July 2010)

She is much worse this am and won't touch soaked hay.  Left her for three hours with it and then gave her some dry hay.

My vet won't give metaformin as he doesn't know anything about EMS.

This mare is a Cleveland Bay who is a real chunky monkey.  Contrary to what my vet keeps saying I don't 'overfeed' her and she has been in all day every day since April with small amounts of hay and daily exercise.  I have held her weight but not been able to reduce it.

We had a hot spell in early June followed by a week of rain - that to me is 'high risk' for laminitis and so she only got 4 hours day of TO she was fine.  The fact she has it now when we have had no rain for a months and temps in the 30's is a mystery to me and farrier.

She is lame, however, on what was her flat foot.  After returning from stud in France she started to waste on one shoulder and one foot became flat.  Our osteopath thought she had had an accident.  It has taken my new remedial farrier a year to get her front feet matching.


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## Lotty (16 July 2010)

Rollin, when my mare was first given soaked hay, she refused to eat it for nearly 2 days. I was really worried and my vet said she will eat it if she is hungry and sure enought she started to eat it. They will eat it if they get hungry enough, however, if I was you I'd call your vet also give the Laminitis Trust a ring, they are so helpful and open 10.00am till 4.00pm.


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## amandap (16 July 2010)

http://www.hoofrehab.com/LaminitisUpdate.htm
http://www.unshod.co.uk/  There's also an article on insulin resistance on this site as well as laminitis.


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