# Herefordshire hunt



## ester (23 June 2016)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36598935

Sometimes I really don't think hunts do themselves many favours given the numbers of people who they know will go to significant effort to see their demise.


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## ponyparty (23 June 2016)

Certainly not the sort of publicity the hunting community needs


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## spacefaer (23 June 2016)

Sadly, one rogue element causes bad publicity for everyone else.   Whatever he's been doing, it is not normal behaviour or remotely acceptable in any world, but the honest and genuine element of the hunting community will suffer for it.


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## attheponies (23 June 2016)

If true, this is utterly appalling but to be honest I'm not that surprised. Judging by comments from acquaintances who hunt, the Hunting Act is often flaunted and general acts of cruelty appear to be not uncommon.


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## ycbm (23 June 2016)

On 130 tonight with the full video. He carries live fox cubs into the kennels. Hounds are heard. He carries out dead fox cubs. Absolutely disgusting


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## Clodagh (23 June 2016)

It is totally dispicable. I have heard hunts use bagged foxes and barn stored foxes and totally disagree with all those practices, feeding live foxes to a pack of hounds in an enclosed area makes me feel sick.
Hounds would hunt without that sort of geeing up, I never fed my lurcher a live rabbit and she hunts them for hours. It is as vile as that pony getting crossbowed or animals being abused at slaughter houses and makes me totally despair of humanity.


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## ExmoorHunter (23 June 2016)

attheponies said:



			If true, this is utterly appalling but to be honest I'm not that surprised. Judging by comments from acquaintances who hunt, the Hunting Act is often flaunted and general acts of cruelty appear to be not uncommon.
		
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I don't think this has anything to do with the Hunting Act but is more likely to be within Animal Welfare law. It is so cruel and totally wrong. I think everyone one on here would condemn this including all of us who hunt regularly.  It is not something I have ever seen and I am shocked TBH. But I disagree that there are "general acts of cruelty" within the hunting community. That is certainly not my experience or how I would treat anything.


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## ycbm (23 June 2016)

ExmoorHunter said:



			I don't think this has anything to do with the Hunting Act but is more likely to be within Animal Welfare law. It is so cruel and totally wrong. I think everyone one on here would condemn this including all of us who hunt regularly.  It is not something I have ever seen and I am shocked TBH. But I disagree that there are "general acts of cruelty" within the hunting community. That is certainly not my experience or how I would treat anything.
		
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Surely it has everything to do with the hunting act?

Is there any reason to give fox hounds live cubs to kill than to teach them to kill fox? I can't think of one, they weren't eaten, the cubs were brought out whole but dead.

Surely it indicates that the Hereford hunt intend those hounds to hunt fox?

Please tell me I'm wrong!


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## Doormouse (23 June 2016)

The man who,is responsible for this act can only be a troubled one with many issues, cruelty being the main one. I would not imagine that there is one single hunting person out there who would condone this vile behaviour.

This is not how hunting works, before the ban or since. Hunting was when still legal a sport and therefore the principle of it was to allow the fox a sporting chance to get away. Since the ban, they have the option of being shot, poisoned or snared to control their numbers.

The fact this happened at a hunt kennels does not mean that all hunts are like this, not all pit bull owners use them to fight but some do. 

I and I suspect many others hope that under the 'Animal Welfare Act' the police pursue him and prosecute, he deserves it.


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## chillipup (23 June 2016)

I'd be surprised to learn he was acting alone without any other members of this hunt, paid or otherwise, knowing what was going on. Three people were arrested weren't they?


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## Clodagh (24 June 2016)

chillipup said:



			I'd be surprised to learn he was acting alone without any other members of this hunt, paid or otherwise, knowing what was going on. Three people were arrested weren't they?
		
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It would be odd for no one else at the hunt to know what was in the shed. The hunt is closed down at present I gather.


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## Tiddlypom (24 June 2016)

Horrific. Well done to the undercover team for getting it on film.

I would like to believe that this is an isolated incident.


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## fburton (24 June 2016)

Public condemnation of the _cruelty_ (and not just the fact that someone was caught acting illegally) by hunt spokespersons up and down the country would be welcome.


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## Countryman (24 June 2016)

Tiddlypom said:



			I would like to believe that this is an isolated incident.
		
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I can guarantee it is. The revulsion felt by all right thinking people at this behaviour is especially prominent among hunt staff - who are generally extremely professional and do value animal welfare greatly - far more than the average member of the public.


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## Countryman (24 June 2016)

fburton said:



			Public condemnation of the _cruelty_ (and not just the fact that someone was caught acting illegally) by hunt spokespersons up and down the country would be welcome.
		
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This would be good, and I think likely and has already happened - although people are limited by what they can say if a criminal investigation is ongoing. I understand the people involved were instantly suspended, and the MFHA has ordered a full inquiry.


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## ycbm (24 June 2016)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ity-to-be-used-in-illegal-hunts-10315129.html

I wish I could believe that it is a single bad individual, but this was only last year and a completely different hunt. 



Countryman said:



			I can guarantee it is. The revulsion felt by all right thinking people at this behaviour is especially prominent among hunt staff - who are generally extremely professional and do value animal welfare greatly - far more than the average member of the public.
		
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## Goldenstar (24 June 2016)

Tiddlypom said:



			Horrific. Well done to the undercover team for getting it on film.

I would like to believe that this is an isolated incident.
		
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So would I 
I am shocked by this .


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## chillipup (24 June 2016)

Countryman said:



			I can guarantee it is. The revulsion felt by all right thinking people at this behaviour is especially prominent among hunt staff - who are generally extremely professional and do value animal welfare greatly - far more than the average member of the public.
		
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Sadly, no, you cannot possibly guarantee what others will or will not do.


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## Shadowdancing (24 June 2016)

Absolutely abhorrent. Tore me up when I saw that video.


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## Alec Swan (24 June 2016)

Assuming that the events which have been described are factual and haven't been embellished for the sake of the case,  then this sort of conduct is disgraceful,  it doesn't in any way describe the ethics of any sport,  and if those responsible are found to be guilty,  and assuming that they are,  then they deserve to feel the full weight of our judicial system.  

For those who may not be aware,  I support hunting,  but not this.

Alec.


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## Clodagh (24 June 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			Assuming that the events which have been described are factual and haven't been embellished for the sake of the case,  then this sort of conduct is disgraceful,  it doesn't in any way describe the ethics of any sport,  and if those responsible are found to be guilty,  and assuming that they are,  then they deserve to feel the full weight of our judicial system.  

For those who may not be aware,  I support hunting,  but not this.

Alec.
		
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The whole thing is on film Alec, so they cannot deny they did it. Quite appalling.


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## Countryman (24 June 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			Assuming that the events which have been described are factual and haven't been embellished for the sake of the case,  then this sort of conduct is disgraceful,  it doesn't in any way describe the ethics of any sport,  and if those responsible are found to be guilty,  and assuming that they are,  then they deserve to feel the full weight of our judicial system.  

For those who may not be aware,  I support hunting,  but not this.

Alec.
		
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Absolutely.


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## justabob (25 June 2016)

Horrific, disgusting but what I can't get my head around is, what was he doing with the cubs? Surely if he had thrown the cub to hounds there would be nothing left of it, the video shows him putting a whole dead cub into the bin. The masters of the SHH should keep a closer eye on their kennels and the staff that they employ to work there. A very sad day for hunting indeed, no one that hunts would condone such barbaric cruelty.


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## honetpot (25 June 2016)

My opinion is that a pack of hounds to not need to be taught how to kill a fox, its controlling them that's the skilled part, I have only been at the kill once and there is not a lot left. So why did they come out whole and didn't look mauled. 
  Were they caught in cage and were being taken back to be shot or have their necks pulled. I know it sounds awful but that's what you do with chickens. Then you do not have to get out a shot gun out.
  I have seen a fox in a cage in a farm yard waiting to be shot, that's not nice either. Killing any animal is not pleasant  for most people, I just hope it was quick.


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## JanetGeorge (25 June 2016)

Clodagh said:



			The whole thing is on film Alec, so they cannot deny they did it. Quite appalling.
		
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Actually, the bits of video that have been put together are VERY confusing.  The times vary in a wierd way.  And none of it shows hounds killing the fox (and if they did, it was remarkably intact when dead.  The fact that they had cubs at the kennels is stupid at best.  What happened afterwards - and why - is still unclear - but it was definitely worse than stupid!!


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## hackneylass2 (27 June 2016)

The fact that they had cubs at the kennels  confuses me too.  Why do you say it was 'stupid' to have these cubs at the kennels Janet?


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## Clodagh (27 June 2016)

hackneylass2 said:



			The fact that they had cubs at the kennels  confuses me too.  Why do you say it was 'stupid' to have these cubs at the kennels Janet?
		
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No hunt, even in the days when they legally hunted foxes, should have been raisaing cubs at the kennels. I don't Janet had any hidden meaning in what she said, just that it was deeply stupid.


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## frostyfingers (27 June 2016)

All I ask is that those people who do hunt are not assumed to be the same as these people.....we're not and we are as appalled and outraged by what has happened as anybody, heaven only knows what they were "thinking" of.


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## Clodagh (27 June 2016)

frostyfingers said:



			All I ask is that those people who do hunt are not assumed to be the same as these people.....we're not and we are as appalled and outraged by what has happened as anybody, heaven only knows what they were "thinking" of.
		
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It is nothing to do with hunting, I agree. It is basic animal cruelty. However I should think it has stopped any possible future repeal vote as all hunts are now going to be under suspicion and nobody would support their politician voting for throwing baby foxes to hungry, vicious hounds. (Deliberate emotive language).


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## frostyfingers (27 June 2016)

I agree, although I suspect that the upheavals in each party and the leaving of the EU had pretty much ruled that out anyway.  I also doubt  that any anti hunting people will be able to see that supporters of hunting can be as much against this behaviour as they are.


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## JanetGeorge (27 June 2016)

hackneylass2 said:



			The fact that they had cubs at the kennels  confuses me too.  Why do you say it was 'stupid' to have these cubs at the kennels Janet?
		
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I said it was "worse than stupid" (I don't want to be banned for using naughty words!)  It was initially claimed they were there for 'relocation' (total nonsense, I suspect) - and no information of how they were caught in the first place.  Hopefully it will all come out in due course and the moron will be jailed.


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## Alec Swan (27 June 2016)

With such moronic conduct,  these people,  assuming the report to be correct,  do nothing but support the argument by the lacs and others,  that this is 'cubbing'.  It isn't,  cubbing is about educating both cubs and the young entry.

Should any of those involved in this shameful episode be known to be guilty,  then I'd hope that they face instant dismissal.  They don't represent Hunting,  at least not from here.

Alec.


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## hackneylass2 (28 June 2016)

Cheers for the clarification, Janet.  It's a very sad situation which will, hopefully, be addressed by the law.

Alec, you say that these people don't represent hunting, I agree, although I do think that the once strict ethics of hunting is being eroded.


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## Orangehorse (28 June 2016)

I haven't watched the video, but agree that if the incident happened as portrayed then it is unforgivable cruelty and the people resonsible should be prosecuted, it is nothing to do with hunting.

Regarding foxes at kennels though, how about Lady Wachter at the North Ledbury?  There were foxes all over the place including a couple in the house.  She is supposed to have tripped over one and broken her ankle once.  Many years ago though, now the North Ledbury is well run!


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