# The Peel case horses - the lost ones



## Meowy Catkin (14 August 2016)

For anyone who's interested in this case, here's a link to the thread on AL that is going through what happened to each horse involved.

http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=56056&whichpage=1


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## Tiddlypom (14 August 2016)

I noticed that according to the programme for the recent (July 2016) BE Cholmondeley Horse Trials that Rachelle and Stephen Peel were listed as fence judges.

Wasn't a key part of the Peel defence that Stephen was suffering from dementia?


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## Equi (14 August 2016)

What a sad case.


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## be positive (14 August 2016)

So out of 35, not all "rescued" by the rspca, some probably disappeared pre 2013, there is only 1 who has truly been rescued and rehomed, Bubblegum rehomed under a different identity by HAPPA, a few unlucky ones have been returned to the peels the rest were killed fairly quickly most for no good reason, only Taragun was fatally injured during the collection process.
A few are still missing having been taken by the RSPCA I guess they were also destroyed but they are not admitting it, I still cannot understand how they took in these horses, had the passports, microchip details of most, yet didn't seem to make any attempt to try to work towards getting them healthy, they were in the main just a bit underweight and suffering from mudfever/ rainscald, a month of care would have been enough to get that sorted, some were very young, they were all quality animals but they gave them no chance, apart from the few that were returned, beyond belief.


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## Meowy Catkin (14 August 2016)

Tiddlypom said:



			Wasn't a key part of the Peel defence that Stephen was suffering from dementia?
		
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That's what I had thought...


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## Meowy Catkin (14 August 2016)

The AHS contacted the RSPCA with homes lined up for the horses, but said that the RSPCA wouldn't enter into any discussion about it.


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## Archangel (15 August 2016)

Despite all the publicity on here and in the Daily Mail they are welcomed as fence judges at a BE event?  Was Jamie Gray there as well?   I'm shocked - did news of the case not reach the eventing world then? Or did the RSCA (P deliberately left out) blunders overshadow what really went on.  Does nothing really matter any more?


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## Regandal (15 August 2016)

I think a few emails to BE are in order. Sickening.


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## PeterNatt (15 August 2016)

I would suggest that an independent report needs to becarried out to determine exactly what happened in this horrific welfare case.


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## BlackRider (15 August 2016)

This is horrific, makes my bool boil overtime I hear about it 

Wish the Peels could feel a fraction of what they inflicted on their horses....


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## BlackRider (15 August 2016)

PS  I can't even contemplate who the ******* decided it was ok to return horses to them after everything they did?  Bangs head..


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## zaminda (15 August 2016)

This case has demonstrated why the RSPCA need investigating by the charities commission. The slaughter of horses that would have been easily rehomed, and the charging of livery for horses that were already dead destroyed the case, and any remaining faith many had in them. Sadly as they ended up being cleared in effect, the horses were returned. We need to keep this in the public eye, so that no one ever trusts them again. They were hugely believable, and because they were out competing with horses that looked great, no one questioned it.
It speaks to the personality of the girl that she has had the audacity to post on AL post the case, under her old username of Taragun.


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## Pinkvboots (15 August 2016)

zaminda said:



			This case has demonstrated why the RSPCA need investigating by the charities commission. The slaughter of horses that would have been easily rehomed, and the charging of livery for horses that were already dead destroyed the case, and any remaining faith many had in them. Sadly as they ended up being cleared in effect, the horses were returned. We need to keep this in the public eye, so that no one ever trusts them again. They were hugely believable, and because they were out competing with horses that looked great, no one questioned it.
It speaks to the personality of the girl that she has had the audacity to post on AL post the case, under her old username of Taragun.
		
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so true the posts on Al are posted on daily to keep them at the top so it's never forgotten, it just really saddens me to think of all those horses shot when most of them only had rain scald, poor feet and were under weight they could have been re homed easily they all were used to being handled.


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## Archangel (16 August 2016)

Regandal said:



			I think a few emails to BE are in order. Sickening.
		
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I have sent an email today.


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## DD (16 August 2016)

If people copy and paste to facebook and other equestrian forums it will get more publicity


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## Damnation (16 August 2016)

What angers me is the amount of horses that the RSPCA cannot rehome as they are "permenant residents" yet with these horses, people were falling over themselves to give the horses a home, or take back horses they had bred/loaned to the Peel's no matter what condition they were in or what their behaviour was like.

Then the limbo, not knowing if your horse is dead or alive, to be given a glimmer of hope to then be told your horse has been dead the whole time.

I HATE the RSPCA.


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## DD (18 August 2016)

any reply from BE?


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## Tiddlypom (18 August 2016)

Damnation said:



			What angers me is the amount of horses that the RSPCA cannot rehome as they are "permenant residents"
		
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I don't think that the RSPCA have permanent residents. IME (I foster young ponies for them), all the animals are up for fostering or adopting once ready.

The Peel case was a disaster all round, and not the RSPCA's finest hour at all. My experience with them has been much more positive, I don't suffer fools gladly but I have been impressed in my dealings with them at a particular Equine centre.

FGI, a pic of the Cholmondely Horse Trials programme from 30/31 July 2016, which I referred to earlier. The Peels are clearly listed as Fence Judges.


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## Rollin (18 August 2016)

I take my hat off to the Arabian breeders/fans who have pursued this case.  I note that Mysticfold Charming Boy a CB stallion and some of his part-bred progeny were among those which died or disappeared.  A terrible tragedy.

I cannot post on here but am aware of another shocking case involving the RSPCA.


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## Wella (20 August 2016)

Bumping this. Do not sell your horses to these people. No doubt they will be looking for their next eventer


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## Rollin (20 August 2016)

I still don't understand why they were not banned from keeping horses?  Can someone explain?


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## ester (20 August 2016)

Because the case was stopped because of witnesses pulling out I think. No guilty verdict, no ban.


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## Wella (20 August 2016)

Probably because the RSPCA cocked everything up. Can they still keep dogs and were any returned?


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## Rollin (20 August 2016)

Why'd did they need witnesses if horses were found starving and dead horses were left in fields with live ones?


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## DD (20 August 2016)

I think it was because the RSPCA made a mess of the case for the prosecution.


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## be positive (20 August 2016)

Wella said:



			Probably because the RSPCA cocked everything up. Can they still keep dogs and were any returned?
		
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Rollin said:



			Why'd did they need witnesses if horses were found starving and dead horses were left in fields with live ones?
		
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Some of the horses and dogs were signed over at the start so were the RSPCA's to do with as they felt "best" the horses were almost all destroyed, dogs were rehomed/ destroyed, end of the matter regarding those, the ones that for some reason were not signed over were returned as technically they still belonged to the Peels.

I have no idea why they required witnesses as everything SHOULD have been clear cut and documented/ photographed but considering the only horse that was requiring immediate destruction was injured after being signed over I guess the evidence was not as clear cut as it should have been, no question that they were guilty of cruelty/  negligence but in law the onus is on the prosecution to prove guilt not the guilty to prove their innocence, by destroying the horses, messing up the evidence, trying to defraud by claiming costs that were not genuine they had lost the case on technicalities, they always want the BIG case so in trying to make it bigger they lost the whole lot. 
It is why in my view they should not prosecute but concentrate on preventing cruelty, which was the original purpose, rather than always setting out to gather enough to prosecute, they should rescue animals from bad situations, give advice if possible and when real cruelty/ negligence is found they should gather information/ facts and pass on for the state to take further action, far better to do this than spend all their time and money pushing people into court, this is not the first case they have spent millions on and lost and will not be the last.


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## Meowy Catkin (30 August 2016)

Edgevale has now started to add photos of the horses on the AL thread.


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## Wella (30 August 2016)

Yes please look at page one on there. A lot of hard work has gone into this list. If it just saves one horse from falling into their hands it will be worth it. No doubt they will be on the look out for new eventers. Don't let it be yours!!!


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## DD (30 August 2016)

bump


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## Rollin (30 August 2016)

There were also Cleveland Bays identified from the  Peel post on AL.  The stallion she owned was lent to a breeder in Oxfordshire, where he died from colic in 2010.  A pure bred mare is believed to be alive, though no one can confirm that.  The whereabout of two other Cleveland Bays mentioned in the court case are unknown.  Their stable names were Coco and Frodo - I think Frodo was a pure bred CB but, if I am correct, his transfer of ownership was never registered, when he was sold as a 3/4 year old.


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## Merlod (30 August 2016)

The rspca are an absolute waste. What I found odd about the peel case is the lack of evidence recorded, especially compared to Spindles Farm of which there were endless (awful) images - horses numbered and even the bodies/remains of horses numbered and photographed along with living conditions etc - but for the peels? Nothing. Very odd. I guess as the rspca decided claim stabling and care of these horses they put down they didn't bother turning it into a publicity case


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## Pinkvboots (30 August 2016)

Merlod said:



			The rspca are an absolute waste. What I found odd about the peel case is the lack of evidence recorded, especially compared to Spindles Farm of which there were endless (awful) images - horses numbered and even the bodies/remains of horses numbered and photographed along with living conditions etc - but for the peels? Nothing. Very odd. I guess as the rspca decided claim stabling and care of these horses they put down they didn't bother turning it into a publicity case
		
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I think because the rspca tried to bill peel for livery charges for horses that had been pts ma y months before, and remember most of the horses were shot very early on and most had minor issues that could have been sorted cheaply and easily, it was basically fraud on their part and peel knew and I think she may have threatened to take it further which is why they dropped the charges that's my take on it anyway.


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## DD (30 August 2016)

bump


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## dominobrown (31 August 2016)

This is so desperately sad. 
As always the only ones to lose out are the horses.
There are some evil people in this world...


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## Crackerz (31 August 2016)

I have been quietly following this for a while, it's crazy, i can't even describe my anger at how the whole thing has been dealt with


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## GemG (31 August 2016)

Very sad indeed. Words fail me. Those poor animals and I feel for those good people who owned/bred them, they must be devastated. 

Fence judging at a BE fixture?!?! They should not be within sight of a horse, I wouldn't trust them with a rocking horse.  Awful, awful, awful.


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## Archangel (31 August 2016)

Looking at the horses on the Arabianlines thread. Sometimes I read it and can hardly believe something so awful actually happened.  

'It' (that peel woman) has got to be a horse hoarder, she kept acquiring horses for her daughter's glittering eventing career or dreaming about building a herd of eventers (how many points was it she gained - none?) and then tossing them aside and forgetting about them when the next one came along.   

peel has a good job (see LinkedIn) and often away all week - so who looked after all those horses?  The husband who also has his own stock to 'care for' and a history of not coping and leaving things to die - it was always going to end badly.  

Horses rarely pop off peacefully in their sleep - so how did those horses that were found dead at the farm actually die?  Were they just shut in a box and starved to death - how long did that take - those poor horses - and that woman just DID NOTHING FOR THEM.  WHY NOT? 

Why did the RSPCA choose to move 31 horses late in the evening on a cold March night - I believe they arrived at the rescue centre after midnight.  Why not move them during the day, maybe then Taragun would have arrived safely.  The whole things stinks of RSPCA corruption, back handers, and many people turning a pretty penny out of charity donations.  How can they live with themselves.


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## ester (31 August 2016)

BEs email reply was a bit of a cop out, as well as factually inaccurate!


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## DD (31 August 2016)

this family should be banned from owning any animals for ever. What is Evies married name> anyone could inadvertently sell her a horse  not knowing who she is.


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## Wella (31 August 2016)

She's not married. There as large as life on face book with pictures of horses on.


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## Pinkvboots (31 August 2016)

Wella said:



			She's not married. There as large as life on face book with pictures of horses on.
		
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the daughter has no shame she even posted on a thread on arabian lines a few months back using the tarragun log in name she used to use, insensitive considering the circumstances and how the poor pony met her end


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## GemG (31 August 2016)

ester said:



			BEs email reply was a bit of a cop out, as well as factually inaccurate!
		
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Very disappointing indeed.


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## ester (31 August 2016)

Pinkvboots said:



			the daughter has no shame she even posted on a thread on arabian lines a few months back using the tarragun log in name she used to use, insensitive considering the circumstances and how the poor pony met her end

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I thought that reading between the lines that seemed to be the case, was it a can we forgive, forget and move on or just a carry on as normal now post?


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## Crackerz (31 August 2016)

Wella said:



			She's not married. There as large as life on face book with pictures of horses on.
		
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Hasn't she just reproduced too?


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## Wella (31 August 2016)

Yes she has a daughter and it's got a pony. Yes it was a can we draw a line under this and move on post. What a nerve no remorse what so ever.


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## Pinkvboots (31 August 2016)

ester said:



			I thought that reading between the lines that seemed to be the case, was it a can we forgive, forget and move on or just a carry on as normal now post?
		
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I think that was the intention she had hence to say she didn't get a very good response.


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## EmmasMummy (31 August 2016)

Wella said:



			Yes she has a daughter and it's got a pony. Yes it was a can we draw a line under this and move on post. What a nerve no remorse what so ever.
		
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Probably in case it effected a showing career for her daughter??


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## zaminda (31 August 2016)

Posting on AL simply reminded people that she was still involved with horses. If anything it made people remember it all over again. Which in my view is a good thing. Disgraceful case, and people. The RSPCA's attempt at fraudulently claiming stabling is what destroyed the case. Keep reminding everyone with horses please everyone!


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## Merlod (1 September 2016)

I noticed that evie peel has deleted her flickr account, which removed the photos of the horses that hadn't long been added to the AL thread - obviously she is watching that post! Sickening, just because she wants to gloss over and pretend those poor horses never existed doesn't mean decent people don't want to remember them, they may have been nothing to her but they would have meant a great deal to others. Makes me so sad.


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## DD (1 September 2016)

bump


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## DD (1 September 2016)

so the Peels still have horses. if anyone knows where they are kept could they fly a drone over the place to check up on things? ( Always assuming they havent been locked in a barn to starve to death?)


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## Wella (1 September 2016)

Merlod said:



			I noticed that evie peel has deleted her flickr account, which removed the photos of the horses that hadn't long been added to the AL thread - obviously she is watching that post! Sickening, just because she wants to gloss over and pretend those poor horses never existed doesn't mean decent people don't want to remember them, they may have been nothing to her but they would have meant a great deal to others. Makes me so sad.
		
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Yes I noticed that yesterday. Probably watching on here too no doubt. Fully agree with your comments very well put.


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## Merlod (1 September 2016)

OMG apparently Evil Peel competed on the 19th of this month on a horse named Honest Villain!

https://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/events/Results.aspx?RiderId=79322


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## ester (1 September 2016)

entered, didn't turn up


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## DD (1 September 2016)

BE should ban the whole family.


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## Merlod (1 September 2016)

ester said:



			entered, didn't turn up 

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My bad withdrawn not competed - still not cheap to enter, so presumably intended to go, maybe she wimped out as her name is still quite prevalent on some message boards. I agree Downton Dame, should be banned but judging by the email response BE gave to Rachelle fence judging that's not going to happen.


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## Pinkvboots (1 September 2016)

Wella said:



			Yes I noticed that yesterday. Probably watching on here too no doubt. Fully agree with your comments very well put.
		
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well if she does happen to look on here maybe she may feel just a tinge of sadness when she thinks about what they did, I found some old Arabian magazines in the garage last week so I sat down and flicked through some of them, one I picked up had her riding Taragun on the front and it made me feel sad just to think how that lovely mare ended up and even worse how she died.


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## Wella (1 September 2016)

Seemingly it has wrote on AL today.


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## gingerarab (1 September 2016)

she claims complete denial to anything that happened,  its all a bunch of lies, no dead horses and no severe neglect ????  

The RSPCA really should be brought to account in all this,  they have let down everyone concerned in this case !!


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## Tiddlypom (1 September 2016)

Wella said:



			Seemingly it has wrote on AL today.
		
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Posted by 'Taragun' on AL today.

_For all that have been reading and posting any threads relating to Rachel and Evie Peel:
_
_I completely understand the need for there to be discussion and opinion surrounding the devastating crisis that my family found itself in in 2013, whilst I was some 200 miles away at college; and which found my father being diagnosed, as a cruel irony of this crisis, with a rare and terminal form of dementia._

So how has Stephen Peel recovered sufficiently from this 'rare and terminal form of dementia' to be able to fence judge at Cholmondeley Horse Trials three years later? A medical miracle?


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## Wella (1 September 2016)

And drive round the Ribble Valley in his 4x4 and go to the Auctions?


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## sasquatch (1 September 2016)

Tiddlypom said:



			Posted by 'Taragun' on AL today.

_For all that have been reading and posting any threads relating to Rachel and Evie Peel:
_
_I completely understand the need for there to be discussion and opinion surrounding the devastating crisis that my family found itself in in 2013, whilst I was some 200 miles away at college; and which found my father being diagnosed, as a cruel irony of this crisis, with a rare and terminal form of dementia._

So how has Stephen Peel recovered sufficiently from this 'rare and terminal form of dementia' to be able to fence judge at Cholmondeley Horse Trials three years later? A medical miracle?
		
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did she never visit home whilst she was at college? or send an email or text home to ask her mum how her old ponies and horses were getting on, or for photos of them?
if her father was so sick, why did she appear to not do anything to help her parents during that time? how was she so unaware of what was going on at home with the horses? why were some horses in her name released back to her, whilst others were destroyed? did she just pick and choose the ones that were of use, and get rid of those who she deemed past it?


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## Wella (1 September 2016)

She was riding Templars Orchestral Pearl in the Stallion Parade at Myerscough on the 16th of February 2013. A month before.


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## be positive (1 September 2016)

Tiddlypom said:



			Posted by 'Taragun' on AL today.

_For all that have been reading and posting any threads relating to Rachel and Evie Peel:
_
_I completely understand the need for there to be discussion and opinion surrounding the devastating crisis that my family found itself in in 2013, whilst I was some 200 miles away at college; and which found my father being diagnosed, as a cruel irony of this crisis, with a rare and terminal form of dementia._

So how has Stephen Peel recovered sufficiently from this 'rare and terminal form of dementia' to be able to fence judge at Cholmondeley Horse Trials three years later? A medical miracle?
		
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The "crisis" went on for many years from the sound of things, many of the missing horses must have died over a period of several years well before she went away to college, the whole family seem to be in complete denial and are continuing to own horses, probably dogs as well, the incompetence of the RSPCA and the blatant refusal to accept responsibility for the state the animals were in by the family is beyond belief, every time I read an update I still cannot fathom out what went on and how the outcome means they can continue life as normal.


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## Merlod (1 September 2016)

excuse after bleddy excuse!


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## ester (1 September 2016)

being around is just taunting people with the possibility of info too, that you know she will never give. She has no need to be involved in the arab world again so why go back?

http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=56094&SearchTerms=college


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## Pinkvboots (2 September 2016)

bumping this after what happened yesterday


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## Frumpoon (2 September 2016)

What happened yesterday


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## Wella (2 September 2016)

It's posting on AL making excuses and obviously in denial. Looks like it wants to resume its eventing "career" and all this to be brushed under the urine and feces covered carpet.


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## Frumpoon (2 September 2016)

Can't BE be petitioned to refuse membership?


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## ester (2 September 2016)

I think they'd be on dodgy ground to do so tbh, Evie was never even charged, and no one has been convicted so they'd be refusing on an opinion basis, I can't imagine them doing that.


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## Wella (2 September 2016)

ester said:



			I think they'd be on dodgy ground to do so tbh, Evie was never even charged, and no one has been convicted so they'd be refusing on an opinion basis, I can't imagine them doing that.
		
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Yep sadly true and looks like someone has already sold them another old eventer. Someone else was riding it in 2012. Honest Villian unless she's just got the ride


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## Frumpoon (2 September 2016)

Looking at the original daily mail article the MP for the area Sir Edward Garnier called for an inquiry into the shootings only last year, is it worth a few letters to ask him if that might be forthcoming? If folks don't get the truth about what happened to their horses then at least the RSPCA should be brought to account for putting the animals down and then of course the question of the claiming of the stabling fees.

The RSPCA are a huge and influential organisation they should be brought to account for this


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## be positive (2 September 2016)

Wella said:



			Yep sadly true and looks like someone has already sold them another old eventer. Someone else was riding it in 2012. Honest Villian unless she's just got the ride 

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I thought the same but he is on the list of the horses returned after the case fell apart.


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## Wella (2 September 2016)

I see I didn't realise that. But I'm glad in away he wasn't sold to them after.


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## Rollin (2 September 2016)

Frumpoon,  Imagine making an error on your Tax Return or expenses submitted to your employer, to the tune of thousands of pounds?  I cannot imagine HMRC would say 'there there. don't do it again'.   What about the toothless Charity Commission why have they done nothing?  I see a claim for livery for dead horses as fraud.


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## Frumpoon (2 September 2016)

I do agree completely but agitating on online forums won't get those answers or deliver the accountability people require. This needs letters and focus to those in high places otherwise another few years will go by and will slip under the radar and everybody will assume it was somehow sorted out


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## Merlod (2 September 2016)

I just read the whole thing and as well as no remorse she is just denying that there were dead horses in stables


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## DD (2 September 2016)

the whole things terrible


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## Bare hoof (3 September 2016)

Downton Dame said:



			the whole things terrible
		
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I feel so sorry for Evie after everything she has been through , and the RSPCA wants shutting down for the big conspiracy, 
I hope to god Evie and her mum SUE the RSPCA and C&C Horse transport for the downright cruelty they caused there horses whilst in there care.
I hope you are reading this Evie and your mum you have done nothing wrong , and I think people need to get there FACTS , 
I think people need to stop bulling Evie and her mum because THEY are the victims in all of this.


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## Dave's Mam (3 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I feel so sorry for Evie after everything she has been through , and the RSPCA wants shutting down for the big conspiracy, 
I hope to god Evie and her mum SUE the RSPCA and C&C Horse transport for the downright cruelty they caused there horses whilst in there care.
I hope you are reading this Evie and your mum you have done nothing wrong , and I think people need to get there FACTS , 
I think people need to stop bulling Evie and her mum because THEY are the victims in all of this.
		
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Eh?


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## Leo Walker (3 September 2016)

Are you serious?? Bullying?? Give me strength!!


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## be positive (3 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I feel so sorry for Evie after everything she has been through , and the RSPCA wants shutting down for the big conspiracy, 
I hope to god Evie and her mum SUE the RSPCA and C&C Horse transport for the downright cruelty they caused there horses whilst in there care.
I hope you are reading this Evie and your mum you have done nothing wrong , and I think people need to get there FACTS , 
I think people need to stop bulling Evie and her mum because THEY are the victims in all of this.
		
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You seem to know the Peels personally to defend them in any way, while many will agree with the fact that the RSPCA acted extremely badly throughout I don't think many people feel sorry for the Peels who caused the suffering of the many horses they owned, that is fact and verified by the videos and evidence given in court at the first hearing, it may have ended up with her getting off but that was due to technicalities not because she was proven innocent. 
The whole story will never be told but the one fact that cannot be denied is that the victims in this were the HORSES who either died before being "rescued" or were not given the chance of recovery and rehoming, Evie and her mother are not the victims they took on far more than they could take care of and neglected the horses, that they still own so many is of concern I just hope they can take better care of them now.


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## sasquatch (3 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I feel so sorry for Evie after everything she has been through , and the RSPCA wants shutting down for the big conspiracy, 
I hope to god Evie and her mum SUE the RSPCA and C&C Horse transport for the downright cruelty they caused there horses whilst in there care.
I hope you are reading this Evie and your mum you have done nothing wrong , and I think people need to get there FACTS , 
I think people need to stop bulling Evie and her mum because THEY are the victims in all of this.
		
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I think we have found Evie or Rachelle! 

I feel very sorry for the poor horses, who had to deal with the cruelty, neglect and abuse suffered at the hands of the Peels, and then at the hands of the RSPCA. They are the only victims here, not Evie and her mum who let the horses suffer and get to the point that the RSPCA had to step in


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

be positive said:



			You seem to know the Peels personally to defend them in any way, while many will agree with the fact that the RSPCA acted extremely badly throughout I don't think many people feel sorry for the Peels who caused the suffering of the many horses they owned, that is fact and verified by the videos and evidence given in court at the first hearing, it may have ended up with her getting off but that was due to technicalities not because she was proven innocent. 
The whole story will never be told but the one fact that cannot be denied is that the victims in this were the HORSES who either died before being "rescued" or were not given the chance of recovery and rehoming, Evie and her mother are not the victims they took on far more than they could take care of and neglected the horses, that they still own so many is of concern I just hope they can take better care of them now.
		
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The whole TRUTH to the story has been  told , Evie made a statement on the Arabian forum ,  I was very much involved I know soooo much with what happened to her horses whist in the care of cooper Wilson and the RSPCA and those god awful C&C TRANSPORT 

Evie and her mum were TARGETED!! it's one massive conspiracy and the RSPCA messed up and I hope to god Khama gets the RSPCA. So Evie and her family can get on with there lives..

As for the online bullying there has ( not on here ) been some rather upsetting and vile threats made toward them and I hope they pursue this aswell.


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

sasquatch said:



			I think we have found Evie or Rachelle! 

This is neither Evie or Rachelle! 
But someone who was involved with the case and Evie's horses
		
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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

I will defend Evie and her mum all the way as they are the victims , there poor horses ended up been neglected by the very organisation ( RSPCA) that is meant to care for and protect animals !!!! It is truly discusting what the RSPCA have done to this innocent family.


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## Dave's Mam (4 September 2016)

Interesting....


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

It is and iam not sure if I should be talking on here about it , but I would like people to know what really happened. And if the peels are reading this so they know the fate of there beloved horses and what actually went on in that dreaded place the RSPCA call a rehoming centre , because it wasn't , it was like a slaughter house!


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## YorksG (4 September 2016)

be positive said:



			You seem to know the Peels personally to defend them in any way, while many will agree with the fact that the RSPCA acted extremely badly throughout I don't think many people feel sorry for the Peels who caused the suffering of the many horses they owned, that is fact and verified by the videos and evidence given in court at the first hearing, it may have ended up with her getting off but that was due to technicalities not because she was proven innocent. 

Our court system works on the state, or at least the prosecuting authority, proving guilt, not on the accused proving their innocence. I believe in Scotland they also have not proven, but in England if you are not found guilty, then regardless of how you may be morally responsible, you are in fact not guilty and as you are innocent ntil proven guilty, legally you are innocent. I have no axe to grind regarding this case and it does infact sound as if the RSPCA made a total hash of the prosecution, but that is the system we have.
		
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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

I tell you what they did do the RSPCA they shot the wrong horse , got some of them muddled up with the peels case and another case and one of the peels poor horses got shot ..... How the hell do you explain that !!! Then they claimed for its board and lodge when it was already dead! Conspiracy ... Cover ups ... And down right cruelty to owners horses whilst in there care while the trail was going on 
There is so much more that people need to know ... HARD TRUE FACTS.


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## dominobrown (4 September 2016)

RSPCA messed up this case, true.
However the Peel's let numerous horses come to a horrific death of a number of years. 
How can you defend someone who let dead horses horses rot in a barn among the living? Beloved horses?? I think not.
Bare hoof- you have your own agenda here.  If you think what the Peel's did is ok I sincerely hope you don't have any animals. 
I think people know a lot, except what happened the missing horses, and the condition of the horses that the Peels got back.
The whole thing is a mess, the losers where the horses.
I wouldn't defend the RSPCA or the Peel's here. What they both did was Evil.

However Evie, if you want to state the 'facts' please do!


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## LadySam (4 September 2016)

Dear Bare hoof

THERE WERE SEVEN DEAD HORSES ON THE PROPERTY IN VARIOUS STAGES OF DECOMPOSITION.  ARE YOU ******* KIDDING ME.

Regards,
LadySam


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## be positive (4 September 2016)

YorksG said:





be positive said:



			You seem to know the Peels personally to defend them in any way, while many will agree with the fact that the RSPCA acted extremely badly throughout I don't think many people feel sorry for the Peels who caused the suffering of the many horses they owned, that is fact and verified by the videos and evidence given in court at the first hearing, it may have ended up with her getting off but that was due to technicalities not because she was proven innocent. 

Our court system works on the state, or at least the prosecuting authority, proving guilt, not on the accused proving their innocence. I believe in Scotland they also have not proven, but in England if you are not found guilty, then regardless of how you may be morally responsible, you are in fact not guilty and as you are innocent ntil proven guilty, legally you are innocent. I have no axe to grind regarding this case and it does infact sound as if the RSPCA made a total hash of the prosecution, but that is the system we have.
		
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I worded my post badly but the fact is she was found guilty then got off on technicalities on appeal, therefore she was proved to be guilty first time around it was the appeal that was the problem, she didn't have to defend herself as the prosecution had messed up and the case was dropped, the system did work until the full facts of how the RSPCA had handled the case, attempted fraud, shot healthy horses meant evidence was tainted and the case just unraveled, it is why I think that these more serious cases should be handled by the CPS and not by a charity that is frequently not in it for the right reasons, seems to have poor communication and very dubious ways of collecting evidence.
		
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## be positive (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			The whole TRUTH to the story has been  told , Evie made a statement on the Arabian forum ,  I was very much involved I know soooo much with what happened to her horses whist in the care of cooper Wilson and the RSPCA and those god awful C&C TRANSPORT 

Evie and her mum were TARGETED!! it's one massive conspiracy and the RSPCA messed up and I hope to god Khama gets the RSPCA. So Evie and her family can get on with there lives..

As for the online bullying there has ( not on here ) been some rather upsetting and vile threats made toward them and I hope they pursue this aswell.
		
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The statement by Evie was her side of the story, it was certainly not the whole story as we have never heard the version from the RSPCA or the yard where the horse went, HAPPA have rehomed one or two but as they have been renamed and issued with new passports even that has never been fully verified.
Evie has clarified what happened to many of the missing horses but even she has missed out a few, not to mention that many seem to have disappeared prior to 2013, they were obviously struggling to cope for some time yet continued to breed more and collect new horses rather than focus on caring for the ones they had or cutting down to a sensible level that could be managed, I think the charities involved made many mistakes, not least by destroying perfectly healthy horses and seeming to be unsure of which was which but it does not excuse or explain why they needed rescuing in the first place or why there were dead bodies in the fields and barns.
Evie states there were only two that died in the 48 hours before the inspectors arrived but makes no mention of them being under veterinary care or why they were left where they were, a horse can die suddenly but no normal person will leave it with other horses if you cannot get the body removed you move the living horses, there were dead rotting carcasses in a barn did they not notice them??

As I said earlier the whole story will never be told, it is not in the Peels interests to disclose any more than they have they will only tell their side as they see it as the victims and the charity will never come clean as they have no reason to, probably still have little idea of which horses they dealt with and why they acted as they did, they still think they were right and no amount of complaining will change the attitude of a company that act in the way they do.

I think Evie needs to keep her head down, stop trying to make out she is the victim and concentrate on moving forward, the best way to prove her many critics wrong would be to accept they did make mistakes, that they were not victims and to really take care of the horses she still owns, if she ever finds herself in a similar situation then she must ask for help, if they had asked for help prior to 2013 they would have had as much as they needed, they were well thought of and many people would have stepped in to take care of the horses either financially or in a practical way, now they will find it more difficult but it will be there as horse people do tend to do all they can when there is real hardship, many of the horses could have been saved if only they had been willing to ask for help before it was too late.


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## ribbons (4 September 2016)

Rachelle is an intelligent woman, she is a skilled writer of fiction, as historical posts on AL show.
She seems to be doing an excellent job here, mascarading as a lesser educated poster with poor spelling and grammar.

Nice try Rachelle.


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## ossy (4 September 2016)

I totally agree what happened to the horses when at rspca is terrible I hate them for it and hate them for then making a mess of this case allowing that woman to get off.  She was found guilty the photos and vids used in that part of the case don't lie, utterly horrible and how someone can defend that is beyond me.  It's also coinsedence how in both the sheep case in 2009 and this case in 2013 illness is sited as a means of defence. My gut feeling horses were already starting and/or already suffering at this point too, but no I can't prove it is just my gut feeling. Anyway back to this case She "got off" on appeal because of technicalities (complete mess up by RSPCA I agree) she did not have to actually prove her innosense.  

What worries me is Evie/rochelle still has some 14 horses in their possession.   Please tell me someone/organisation is keeping an eye of these.


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## ester (4 September 2016)

I don't think it is in question that RSPCA messed up, big time, and even for them their failures were pretty spectacular with regards to this case. 
That still doesn't take anything away from the actual situation that existed on the farm though, I note that Evie makes no mention of the dogs either... and who just has a 'missing' horse.


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

ribbons said:



			Rachelle is an intelligent woman, she is a skilled writer of fiction, as historical posts on AL show.
She seems to be doing an excellent job here, mascarading as a lesser educated poster with poor spelling and grammar.

Nice try Rachelle.
		
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H aha ha it's not Rachelle or Evie , but someone with dislexier yes.. 
And English wasn't my best subject at school 
I was very much involved with there horses , as I was there at equine support centre at the gg centre  run by cooper Wilson.


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## ribbons (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			H aha ha it's not Rachelle or Evie , but someone with dislexier yes.. 
And English wasn't my best subject at school 
I was very much involved with there horses , as I was there at equine support centre at the gg centre  run by cooper Wilson.
		
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Or the other alias, spirit13 perhaps


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## spottybotty (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			H aha ha it's not Rachelle or Evie , but someone with dislexier yes.. 
And English wasn't my best subject at school 
I was very much involved with there horses , as I was there at equine support centre at the gg centre  run by cooper Wilson.
		
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Is this the delightful man that shot a DIY liveries horse for 2 weeks non payment of bill and left the body dumped on her front Lawn? Nice man........ NOT


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## Wella (4 September 2016)

I wouldn't be bragging about working there or knowing the Peels.


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

Wella said:



			I wouldn't be bragging about working there or knowing the Peels.
		
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I'll brag all I want to just like the rest of you on here do !


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## Wella (4 September 2016)

Have you seen the RSPCA video of the squalor those dogs and horses were kept in are you saying that's acceptable? Yes I will brag my animals are loved, fed, healthy, clean, well exercised, warm, dry and have access to clean water at all times. Have veterinary care when necessary and my horse is shod every six weeks. Come see if you want I live near the Peels.


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## Steerpike (4 September 2016)

ribbons said:



			Or the other alias, spirit13 perhaps
		
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I think you could be right.


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## DD (4 September 2016)

there was someone posting on AL spirit 13 I think her posts were removed. it was thought to be a wind up. I think shes posting on here now as a wind up.


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## Frumpoon (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I'll brag all I want to just like the rest of you on here do !
		
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Not exactly bragging is it, just stating the association...the worst kind of association


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## Pinkvboots (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I feel so sorry for Evie after everything she has been through , and the RSPCA wants shutting down for the big conspiracy, 
I hope to god Evie and her mum SUE the RSPCA and C&C Horse transport for the downright cruelty they caused there horses whilst in there care.
I hope you are reading this Evie and your mum you have done nothing wrong , and I think people need to get there FACTS , 
I think people need to stop bulling Evie and her mum because THEY are the victims in all of this.
		
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I am sorry but did you not see the pictures and the videos taken of the peels horses before they were seized?   the peels are not bloody victims they were not looking after their horses end of or they would not have been taken, they would have been charged for animal neglect had the rspca not made such a mess of the case.


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## Merlod (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I'll brag all I want to just like the rest of you on here do !
		
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Rachelle Peel or "friend of the family"

Members of AL not buying your codswallop so you come here to try and push it. Putting aside the case and F up's by the rspca, 30 odd horses were removed from you, not great but not awful condition so it must have been true about the horrific living conditions and carcasses of horses left to rot in the barn with live ones that did it, I see you have finally admitted to two dead in the field, now for the rest  - or did they mean so little to you that you can't even remember which ones were left to starve and die? God only knows how many more poor horses met the same cruel fate over the years. 

Good luck trying to return to the horse world/pick up Evies eventing "career" - i'm sure many will be watching your every move. What you did was callous and unthinkable and you've clearly shown that you will never feel remorse.


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

Wella said:



			Have you seen the RSPCA video of the squalor those dogs and horses were kept in are you saying that's acceptable? Yes I will brag my animals are loved, fed, healthy, clean, well exercised, warm, dry and have access to clean water at all times. Have veterinary care when necessary and my horse is shod every six weeks. Come see if you want I live near the Peels.
		
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Now who's been cruel nailing on metal shoes  to a horses living tissues and horn .... Makes my blood boil 

If you live near the peels mabie you could go up and check on the horses and mabie ask if they need help with anything


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## Tiddlypom (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			If you live near the peels mabie you could go up and check on the horses and mabie ask if they need help with anything
		
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Nah, they're too busy fence judging at BE hours away from home, they wouldn't be in...


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

Merlod said:



			Rachelle Peel or "friend of the family"

Members of AL not buying your codswallop so you come here to try and push it. Putting aside the case and F up's by the rspca, 30 odd horses were removed from you, not great but not awful condition so it must have been true about the horrific living conditions and carcasses of horses left to rot in the barn with live ones that did it, I see you have finally admitted to two dead in the field, now for the rest  - or did they mean so little to you that you can't even remember which ones were left to starve and die? God only knows how many more poor horses met the same cruel fate over the years. 

Good luck trying to return to the horse world/pick up Evies eventing "career" - i'm sure many will be watching your every move. What you did was callous and unthinkable and you've clearly shown that you will never feel remorse.
		
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Not a friend of the family 
And when Evie's horses came to us ( equine support) Harley for one was in superb condition , some of the others were in there winter woolies as you would expect coming out of winter,  yes some needed a trim but they were not as bad as some horrific cruelty cases we have had , yes some of the horses were muddy .. But isn't that what happenes in winter with horses living out .... You know they get muddy and so do your fields , just because they were not brushed and wrapped in cotton wool like some owners are , they were allowed to be horses naturally.


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

Tiddlypom said:



			Nah, they're too busy fence judging at BE hours away from home, they wouldn't be in...
		
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They never went


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## Steerpike (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof does the horses name Ijaaz ring a bell?


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

Seen all the videos and they were taken on the morning  before all the animals had been mucked out , gosh you want to work in a rescue dog kennels ...or an actual working farm ....the morning after its disgusting cleaning all the animals.


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## Tiddlypom (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			They never went
		
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How come their names were listed on the Cholmondely progamme, then? Did they funk out of FJ ing? I have previously posted a photo of the Cholmondely programme on this thread, which clearly listed them as FJ's.


Had I twigged on the day, I would have gone up and challenged them in person. I will keep a look out for them in future...


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## Archangel (4 September 2016)

Bare Hoof - what is happening regarding tragic Taragun's unnecessary death (let alone the others) - do you know?  

The person in charge of the operation that night left horses on a lorry for 7 hours, loaded unsuitable horses together - did they have partitions even?  and Taragun fell and was fatally injured.   It was an entirely avoidable incident.  The RSCA (p for prevention left out again) did not PREVENT cruelty in this case they CAUSED it.  They took horses from a bad situation and put them in an even worse situation.  I believe you know the answers to these questions.   

This happening at the GG Centre is the tip of an iceberg regarding the RSCA imo.  

Does anybody know what happened re Charity Commission and RSCA in relation to this case?  or was there a whitewash?  I cannot see how the RSCA escaped prosecution for what happened to these horses let along the financial fraud.  

You mentioned another horse that was shot by mistake.


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## Wella (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Now who's been cruel nailing on metal shoes  to a horses living tissues and horn .... Makes my blood boil 

If you live near the peels mabie you could go up and check on the horses and mabie ask if they need help with anything
		
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I'm in Gisburn tomorrow lets meet for a chat. Mabie??!!!


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

Archangel said:



			Bare Hoof - what is happening regarding tragic Taragun's unnecessary death (let alone the others) - do you know?  

The person in charge of the operation that night left horses on a lorry for 7 hours, loaded unsuitable horses together - did they have partitions even?  and Taragun fell and was fatally injured.   It was an entirely avoidable incident.  The RSCA (p for prevention left out again) did not PREVENT cruelty in this case they CAUSED it.  They took horses from a bad situation and put them in an even worse situation.  I believe you know the answers to these questions.   

This happening at the GG Centre is the tip of an iceberg regarding the RSCA imo.  

Does anybody know what happened re Charity Commission and RSCA in relation to this case?  or was there a whitewash?  I cannot see how the RSCA escaped prosecution for what happened to these horses let along the financial fraud.  

You mentioned another horse that was shot by mistake.
		
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The transport company C&C HORSE TRANSPORT , from stoksley way 
Had hoarded all the horses into 2 big wagons , some of the mares were loaded next to stallions ( with no stallion grids) so they could touch noes to nose , and poor taragun slipped over in the horsebox and got trodden on her back legs. It was NOT LIFE THREATENING!!! 
But as per usual the RSPCA ordered cooper to shot her because the RSPCA couldn't be bothered to treat her cuts and spend money on a old horse .  I Was with taragun when she was put to sleep.

And yes the transport company C&C that work for the RSPCA should of know better but there are inexperienced scum bags that don't give two ******* about horses all they care about is .... BLOODY MONEY!!

Yes a horse was shot by mistake (one of the peels)   aswell and its death was covered up.


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

Wella said:



			I'm in Gisburn tomorrow lets meet for a chat. Mabie??!!!
		
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 where is Gisburn ? I live near hull!


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## Wella (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			where is Gisburn ? I live near hull!
		
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Exactly!!!


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## Leo Walker (4 September 2016)

I'm surprised C&C did that. The have been running for years and are well regarded, so not sure what or how it went so wrong!


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

FrankieCob said:



			I'm surprised C&C did that. The have been running for years and are well regarded, so not sure what or how it went so wrong!
		
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It was new Inexperianced grooms plus the RSPCA ordered them all on the wagons , RSPCA don't give a hoot all they care about is a prosecution and money.


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## Archangel (4 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			RSPCA don't give a hoot all they care about is a prosecution and money.
		
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It is about time someone took the RSCA on.  Did the Peels ever consider it?


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## ossy (4 September 2016)

Archangel said:



			It is about time someone took the RSCA on.  Did the Peels ever consider it?
		
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Yes if the peels were so hard done by and innocent why didn't they take the matter further??


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

Archangel said:



			It is about time someone took the RSCA on.  Did the Peels ever consider it?
		
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I hope the peels do take action and sue


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

ossy said:



			Yes if the peels were so hard done by and innocent why didn't they take the matter further??
		
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There is an ongoing case against cooper Wilson for the wrong horse shooting as I am told by my police officer friend


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

Plus me and my friend ( who is also a police officer that was dealing in the case) would be witnesses if the peels needed proof


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## ester (4 September 2016)

The whole thing was a mess, out of the furnace and into the fire from the Peels to RSPCA/the fabulous Mr Wilson who seems to be plenty trigger happy on occasion.

I also assumed Bare hoof is spirit13. No shoes here so hopefully that makes me amazing


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

ester said:



			The whole thing was a mess, out of the furnace and into the fire from the Peels to RSPCA/the fabulous Mr Wilson who seems to be plenty trigger happy on occasion.

I also assumed Bare hoof is spirit13. No shoes here so hopefully that makes me amazing 

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No it's not spirit 13 I do know who you mean tho and it's not me sorry to disappoint .


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## ester (4 September 2016)

not disappointed  you just seem to have been in similar places at similar times.


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## Dave's Mam (4 September 2016)

It's a bit uncanny really.


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## Bare hoof (4 September 2016)

There is a lot of us yes. Some still work there , others have left and retired and got old like me. I was worried about coming forward and speaking about the case. But I've had a little shove and seen other ex employees that have come forward.  Iam one who doesn't say a lot but watches and takes note, and it's time I said my piece of what happened.


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## hackneylass2 (5 September 2016)

Ah, so the GG Centre is run by Cooper Wilson?  I thought the rescue centre he was involved with and the GG Centre were two seperate entities.

How could you work for CW Barehoof?  Hardly one for rescue it seems.


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## ycbm (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			H aha ha it's not Rachelle or Evie , but someone with dislexier yes.. 
And English wasn't my best subject at school 
I was very much involved with there horses , as I was there at equine support centre at the gg centre  run by cooper Wilson.
		
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We have a lot of dyslexic people on this forum. The one word I can't remember them ever misspelling is dyslexia.


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## DD (5 September 2016)

this seems to have moved away from the Peels and onto RSPCA bashing. IMO the RSPCA acted very wrongly in this case, however, the PEELS STARVED HORSES TO DEATH by locking them in a barn and leaving them to die. ALSO mistreated others and dogs. can barefoot defend this I wonder? if the Peels hadnt starved and ill treated their animals the RSPCA would never have been involved lets get back to thew original perpetrators, the Peels STARVED HORSES TO DEATH.


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## Pinkvboots (5 September 2016)

Apparently if you nail metal shoes onto your horse your evil, but not feeding your horses  and leaving them standing in their own cr*p and amongst their dead companions is ok.


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## Wella (5 September 2016)

Pinkvboots said:



			Apparently if you nail metal shoes onto your horse your evil, but not feeding your horses  and leaving them standing in their own cr*p and amongst their dead companions is ok.
		
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According to barefoot if you read back the video was taken in the morning before they'd mucked out. And said have I never seen kennels, farms and stables in the morning. I honestly give in!


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## ribbons (5 September 2016)

Downton Dame said:



			this seems to have moved away from the Peels and onto RSPCA bashing. IMO the RSPCA acted very wrongly in this case, however, the PEELS STARVED HORSES TO DEATH by locking them in a barn and leaving them to die. ALSO mistreated others and dogs. can barefoot defend this I wonder? if the Peels hadnt starved and ill treated their animals the RSPCA would never have been involved lets get back to thew original perpetrators, the Peels STARVED HORSES TO DEATH.
		
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Moving the spotlight was the objective of the poster joining this forum under the name of bare hoof, who is clearly the same poster known as spirit13 (recently joined then removed from AL.)
Both of which, in my opinion, are Rachelle Peel, or at the very least, someone posting for her and under her direction.
The RSPCA and their handling of this case was beyond dreadful and definitely requires thorough investigation. However, that does not mean they are the first abusers of those horses.
Someone &#128521;, is trying very hard to deflect blame, but doesn't seem to have the bottle to stand up, as themselves, and give a full, honest account of events.


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## Pinkvboots (5 September 2016)

Wella said:



			According to barefoot if you read back the video was taken in the morning before they'd mucked out. And said have I never seen kennels, farms and stables in the morning. I honestly give in!
		
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well my stables don't look like that any morning I am sure most people's don't! you can see clearly in the video and the pictures that those barns had not been mucked out in a very long time, and the horses were covered in their own muck that doesn't happen over one night of being in.

I am not convinced this bare hoof person is who they say they are anyway.


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## dominobrown (5 September 2016)

You mean that you dont find a few dead horses among the muck in the stables in morning? Apprenty normal!

Bare foot must think we are idiots if we fall for that. The rspca was in the wrong in this case but so were the Peels, what they did was evil too. Niether have a leg to stand on.
As usual the horses are the ones to lose out. The peels show no remorse for what they have done and trying to look like "victims"


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## ester (5 September 2016)

Downton Dame said:



			this seems to have moved away from the Peels and onto RSPCA bashing. IMO the RSPCA acted very wrongly in this case, however, the PEELS STARVED HORSES TO DEATH by locking them in a barn and leaving them to die. ALSO mistreated others and dogs. can barefoot defend this I wonder? if the Peels hadnt starved and ill treated their animals the RSPCA would never have been involved lets get back to thew original perpetrators, the Peels STARVED HORSES TO DEATH.
		
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and it is the RSPCAs fault that they are still allowed to have horses!


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## Damnation (5 September 2016)

LadySam said:



			Dear Bare hoof

THERE WERE SEVEN DEAD HORSES ON THE PROPERTY IN VARIOUS STAGES OF DECOMPOSITION.  ARE YOU ******* KIDDING ME.

Regards,
LadySam
		
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I'd still like an answer to this. What is the excuse for the dead bodies in various stages of composition? 



Wella said:



			According to barefoot if you read back the video was taken in the morning before they'd mucked out. And said have I never seen kennels, farms and stables in the morning. I honestly give in!
		
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I have worked on both big livery yards and kennels. Perhaps we had standards but I can tell you our yard was not disgusting and the kennels did not stink so much it made inspectors eyes water. We did not encounter dead residents either. Infact the only animals that perished in our care were either very old (one died in her sleep) or were under vetenary care. They were disposed of in accordance to the owners wishes NOT left to rot where they fell.




			Judge Clarke said that throughout the lengthy trial Peel had demonstrated a persistent unwillingness to accept any shortcomings on her part.

&#8220;You saw yourself very much the victim and you laid blame at a series of others in how they dealt with you and your family and with how they treated the horses. There was in some instances an obstinate refusal to accept even the most compelling evidence of neglect,&#8221; said Judge Clarke.

He recognised that Peel had suffered significantly as a result of the events of March 2013, the ongoing investigation and uncertainty and the changes in her personal life.

&#8220;However, those who undertake the care of animals in a professional role have significant responsibilities to those animals and I would be failing in my public duty if the sentences I passed failed to reflect the seriousness of the situation,&#8221; he said.
		
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A quote from the Judge of the original case. Very interesting reading, the unwillingness to take responsibility for actions appears to be a family trait.


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## ossy (5 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			A quote from the Judge of the original case. Very interesting reading, the unwillingness to take responsibility for actions appears to be a family trait.
		
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Completely as I've said before bit of a convenience that illness is sited as a means of defence in both the sheep case 2009 and in the March 2013.  And if I had something like that going on at home I don't think I would have gone eventing just a few weeks later like Evie did.  Also some of the info she has sprouted on AL just doesn't add up.  Apparently feathers McGraw is listed by her as died pre 2010 yet he was enter in a BE event in June 2010, all be it is marked as withdraw.  So what is it,  he died pre 2010, in 2010 or after or does she just not care enough to know? How many others on her listed aren't correct? 

And id have a guess that the reason the peels haven't taken things further in terms of action for the RSPCA failings is that they already got what they wanted out of it and that was a deal that the appeal would not be contested and as such she got her guilty verdict overturned without actually having to prove her innocence.


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## DD (5 September 2016)

its a great shame the RSPCA made a mess of ths prosecution. the Peels should be banned from owning any animal; they are rotten to the core and guilty.


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

Downton Dame said:



			its a great shame the RSPCA made a mess of ths prosecution. the Peels should be banned from owning any animal; they are rotten to the core and guilty.
		
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We're any of you there? NO , so stop passing judgment, she said this she done that , this poor family have been threw hell with all this abuse from social media. Why don't you all just go and see them instead of making personal attacks of bitching about them on a public forum. It's unacceptable and down right wrong. Why don't you find a proper cruelty case to bash, instead of this poor family. You can't can you? All you can do is sit behind your keyboards and slate , bitch, and upset people with your nasty comments. If you have such a personal vendetta against this innocent family, then go and see them in person.

cyberbullying activities are criminal offences under a range of different laws, including the Malicious Communications Act 1988 and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.


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## ester (5 September 2016)

Gosh if everyone had to be at places to pass judgement on situations regardless of other verifiable evidence the internet would be a very quiet place indeed! I also don't think people being aware of this case means they don't post on other cruelty cases, you just haven't come across them yet. There are several extensive, current threads on this forum about such incidences as well as people dealing with such issues 'in real life'. Frankly for the most part these issues of abuse on social media are easily avoided, the rest of us manage by not having any animal welfare issues that need investigating.

IMO it isn't slating or bitching it is identification of the facts, which as usual still don't stack up.


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## saalsk (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			We're any of you there? NO , so stop passing judgment, she said this she done that , this poor family have been threw hell with all this abuse from social media. Why don't you all just go and see them instead of making personal attacks of bitching about them on a public forum. It's unacceptable and down right wrong. Why don't you find a proper cruelty case to bash, instead of this poor family. You can't can you? All you can do is sit behind your keyboards and slate , bitch, and upset people with your nasty comments. If you have such a personal vendetta against this innocent family, then go and see them in person.

cyberbullying activities are criminal offences under a range of different laws, including the Malicious Communications Act 1988 and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
		
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There is nothing *innocent* about animal abuse.  I have no idea why people like you/them think it is acceptable, or how you can sleep at night knowing what you all did. You may have got away with those horrific things on a technicality - but we all know what you are.


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

There were not in any way, shape or form, 15 dead bodies at the premises. This is entirely fictitious and was never even suggested by the Prosecution or in evidence.
There were no charges and no question what so ever that Rachelle Peel caused or contributed to the death of an animal.Rachelle Peel was found NOT GUILTY of any charge relating to the body condition score of any animal because evidence did not support this.

In May 2016, at the Prosecution's request, a pre-Appeal hearing was held, at which all charges and convictions against Rachelle Peel were quashed. The Prosecution stated that witnesses who had undergone rigorous cross examination during the trial, refused to appear.( One of the witnesses was cooper Wilson ) 
Because of the fraudulent clams he refused to turn up.
Rachelle and Evie Peel were told by certain individuals in a professional standing that all the horses were alive and indeed some had been re-homed. This was proved to be a lie when it was discovered during the trial that the many of the horses had been shot and were dead at the time this statement was made.
Cooper Wilson had made a very serious cock up and had shot the wrong horses resulting in some of the horses are still missing (FACT)

 Open discussion is fine if it is the truth. A majority of what has been posted on social media is exaggerated or false. What has been written in this post is FACT and can be validated. i have no reason to lie.


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## Pinkvboots (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			We're any of you there? NO , so stop passing judgment, she said this she done that , this poor family have been threw hell with all this abuse from social media. Why don't you all just go and see them instead of making personal attacks of bitching about them on a public forum. It's unacceptable and down right wrong. Why don't you find a proper cruelty case to bash, instead of this poor family. You can't can you? All you can do is sit behind your keyboards and slate , bitch, and upset people with your nasty comments. If you have such a personal vendetta against this innocent family, then go and see them in person.

cyberbullying activities are criminal offences under a range of different laws, including the Malicious Communications Act 1988 and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
		
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so explain the videos and pictures of their animals living in horrendous conditions? explain the dead carcasses of horses on the premises with live horses living amongst them? If that's not cruelty then what is?


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## be positive (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			We're any of you there? NO , so stop passing judgment, she said this she done that , this poor family have been threw hell with all this abuse from social media. Why don't you all just go and see them instead of making personal attacks of bitching about them on a public forum. It's unacceptable and down right wrong. Why don't you find a proper cruelty case to bash, instead of this poor family. You can't can you? All you can do is sit behind your keyboards and slate , bitch, and upset people with your nasty comments. If you have such a personal vendetta against this innocent family, then go and see them in person.

cyberbullying activities are criminal offences under a range of different laws, including the Malicious Communications Act 1988 and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
		
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Just in case anyone has not seen the photos, which show horses in poor and unkempt condition, the video which shows horses in filthy stables, certainly not just a "normal" morning before being mucked out, at least not in most decent yards, plus a few dogs in disgusting conditions, I have put the link to the H&H report.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/peel-arab-horses-rescued-rspca-put-down-511288

I don't think any of us need to have been there to pass comments on how the horses were being kept, the Peels had lost control of the situation and their horses were suffering the consequences, it may not have been intentional, negligence rarely is, but the conditions were unacceptable to everyone on here who has read about the case, the judge did find Rachelle guilty of neglect and stated in his summing up that she had shown no remorse, part of his summing up clearly shows she came across as if she was the victim.

 &#8220;You saw yourself very much the victim and you laid blame at a series of others in how they dealt with you and your family and with how they treated the horses. There was in some instances an obstinate refusal to accept even the most compelling evidence of neglect,&#8221; said Judge Clarke. 

Read more at: http://www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.u...eder-found-guilty-of-animal-neglect-1-7441605

I don't think there is a personal vendetta by anyone and it is not bullying to want to get to the truth,  if they showed any remorse, accepted that they had made mistakes then maybe they would be left in peace but they still try and defend their actions, or lack or action, and fail to understand why people will continue to try and find out what went on, at least Evie has clarified some of the questions of where the missing horses are but they are not all accounted for.


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## ester (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			There were not in any way, shape or form, 15 dead bodies at the premises. This is entirely fictitious and was never even suggested by the Prosecution or in evidence.
There were no charges and no question what so ever that Rachelle Peel caused or contributed to the death of an animal.Rachelle Peel was found NOT GUILTY of any charge relating to the body condition score of any animal because evidence did not support this.

In May 2016, at the Prosecution's request, a pre-Appeal hearing was held, at which all charges and convictions against Rachelle Peel were quashed. The Prosecution stated that witnesses who had undergone rigorous cross examination during the trial, refused to appear.( One of the witnesses was cooper Wilson ) 
Because of the fraudulent clams he refused to turn up.
		
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They were quashed because the witnesses refused to appear, because of the fraudulent claims. 
that does not and never will mean that exemplary care was given to those animals while under the Peel's care, just that the prosecution turned into a complete farce. There was clearly enough evidence for the judge to convict initially.


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## LadySam (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			There were not in any way, shape or form, 15 dead bodies at the premises. This is entirely fictitious and was never even suggested by the Prosecution or in evidence.
There were no charges and no question what so ever that Rachelle Peel caused or contributed to the death of an animal.Rachelle Peel was found NOT GUILTY of any charge relating to the body condition score of any animal because evidence did not support this.

In May 2016, at the Prosecution's request, a pre-Appeal hearing was held, at which all charges and convictions against Rachelle Peel were quashed. The Prosecution stated that witnesses who had undergone rigorous cross examination during the trial, refused to appear.( One of the witnesses was cooper Wilson ) 
Because of the fraudulent clams he refused to turn up.
Rachelle and Evie Peel were told by certain individuals in a professional standing that all the horses were alive and indeed some had been re-homed. This was proved to be a lie when it was discovered during the trial that the many of the horses had been shot and were dead at the time this statement was made.
Cooper Wilson had made a very serious cock up and had shot the wrong horses resulting in some of the horses are still missing (FACT)

 Open discussion is fine if it is the truth. A majority of what has been posted on social media is exaggerated or false. What has been written in this post is FACT and can be validated. i have no reason to lie.
		
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Careful there.  You've forgotten your spelling mistakes and dickslecskia, mysterious stranger.


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## laura_nash (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			We're any of you there? NO , so stop passing judgment [...]  If you have such a personal vendetta against this innocent family, then go and see them in person.
		
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I wasn't present, I have seen photographic and video evidence that is convincing and was admitted in court (and no one has claimed it has been faked) so I feel perfectly entitled to pass judgement, I have no desire to ever meet any of them.

I have worked at and stabled my horses at many working farms, my neighbours have working farms now.  As a teenager I spent time at hunt kennels, and worked at a huge trekking and breeding yard with more than 200 horses.  I have recently visited a very overworked local horse rescue staffed entirely by volunteers.  None of them had stables that looked like that.


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## Wella (5 September 2016)

Lady Sam spot on was just thinking the exact same thing.


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## Amymay (5 September 2016)

LadySam said:



			Careful there.  You've forgotten your spelling mistakes and dickslecskia, mysterious stranger.
		
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Indeed.


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## be positive (5 September 2016)

LadySam said:



			Careful there.  You've forgotten your spelling mistakes and dickslecskia, mysterious stranger.
		
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And some of the post is taken directly from the thread on Arabian lines which is by Evie? so is Bare hoof Evie in yet another guise?


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

laura_nash said:



			I wasn't present, I have seen photographic and video evidence that is convincing and was admitted in court (and no one has claimed it has been faked) so I feel perfectly entitled to pass judgement, I have no desire to ever meet any of them.

I have worked at and stabled my horses at many working farms, my neighbours have working farms now.  As a teenager I spent time at hunt kennels, and worked at a huge trekking and breeding yard with more than 200 horses.  I have recently visited a very overworked local horse rescue staffed entirely by volunteers.  None of them had stables that looked like that.
		
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You've obviously not been on a working cow and pig farm then , where the animals are deep littered threw the winter.


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## saalsk (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			You've obviously not been on a working cow and pig farm then , where the animals are deep littered threw the winter.
		
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You do know the difference between good care using the deep litter system, and allowing animals to live in dreadful conditions, neglect and die, without you so much as noticing, let alone caring ?  You can argue and try to plead the pity case all you want. Anyone seeing those images knows what you are.


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## Pinkvboots (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			You've obviously not been on a working cow and pig farm then , where the animals are deep littered threw the winter.
		
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oh look a little spelling mistake thrown in for good measure


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## LadySam (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			You've obviously not been on a working cow and pig farm then , where the animals are deep littered threw the winter.
		
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But we're not talking about cows or pigs, are we?  Why are you even here, Bare hoof?  You are clearly not going to change anybody's mind.  Despite the fact that the RSPCA totally cocked up the prosecution case, it is FACT AND CAN BE VERIFIED that there were seven dead horses, and so many others in such a dire state that TWO welfare charities had to step in.  There is irrefutable photographic evidence of all this.  

If your beloved, hard-done-by Peels just want to put this in the past and move on, why are you here keeping the discussion alive, trying to win an unwinnable argument?


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## ossy (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Exactly technicalities, at which point did she actually have to prove her innocence? 

"What has been written in this post is FACT and can be validated"
-oh and where have I heard that line before??
		
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## Frumpoon (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			There were not in any way, shape or form, 15 dead bodies at the premises. This is entirely fictitious and was never even suggested by the Prosecution or in evidence.
There were no charges and no question what so ever that Rachelle Peel caused or contributed to the death of an animal.Rachelle Peel was found NOT GUILTY of any charge relating to the body condition score of any animal because evidence did not support this.

In May 2016, at the Prosecution's request, a pre-Appeal hearing was held, at which all charges and convictions against Rachelle Peel were quashed. The Prosecution stated that witnesses who had undergone rigorous cross examination during the trial, refused to appear.( One of the witnesses was cooper Wilson ) 
Because of the fraudulent clams he refused to turn up.
Rachelle and Evie Peel were told by certain individuals in a professional standing that all the horses were alive and indeed some had been re-homed. This was proved to be a lie when it was discovered during the trial that the many of the horses had been shot and were dead at the time this statement was made.
Cooper Wilson had made a very serious cock up and had shot the wrong horses resulting in some of the horses are still missing (FACT)

 Open discussion is fine if it is the truth. A majority of what has been posted on social media is exaggerated or false. What has been written in this post is FACT and can be validated. i have no reason to lie.
		
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Your English has suddenly got better


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## ester (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			You've obviously not been on a working cow and pig farm then , where the animals are deep littered threw the winter.
		
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I have been on plenty of working cattle farms, didn't look like that, ever. That isn't deep litter it is just manure.


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## darli (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I will defend Evie and her mum all the way as they are the victims , there poor horses ended up been neglected by the very organisation ( RSPCA) that is meant to care for and protect animals !!!! It is truly discusting what the RSPCA have done to this innocent family.
		
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So why where they signed over.  If nothing was wrong why hand them over to the RSPCA?  They wouldn't have a hope in hell of taking any of mine just on an inspectors say so.


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## Pinkvboots (5 September 2016)

bare hoof you seem to have a big knowledge of Arab names and the translation of them as listed on another thread on here, have you had much to do with Arab horses?


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

LadySam said:



			But we're not talking about cows or pigs, are we?  Why are you even here, Bare hoof?  You are clearly not going to change anybody's mind.  Despite the fact that the RSPCA totally cocked up the prosecution case, it is FACT AND CAN BE VERIFIED that there were seven dead horses, and so many others in such a dire state that TWO welfare charities had to step in.  There is irrefutable photographic evidence of all this.  

If your beloved, hard-done-by Peels just want to put this in the past and move on, why are you here keeping the discussion alive, trying to win an unwinnable argument?
		
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Because I don't like bullies !


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## saalsk (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Because I don't like bullies !
		
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But you are fine with abusing animals ?


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

Frumpoon said:



			Your English has suddenly got better
		
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Why thankyou so much ... I do try !


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

saalsk said:



			But you are fine with abusing animals ?
		
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Hmmmm yes let's look and define " abused animals " I think you need to look up the word " ABUSE "


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

darli said:



			So why where they signed over.  If nothing was wrong why hand them over to the RSPCA?  They wouldn't have a hope in hell of taking any of mine just on an inspectors say so.
		
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Why don't you ask cooper that question and Kat hamlington


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## saalsk (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Hmmmm yes let's look and define " abused animals " I think you need to look up the word " ABUSE "
		
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I don't think I do. I have seen the images. The fact that you apparently found it acceptable, and justifiable, doesn't mean that it was. What a shame you didn't spend as much time and effort in looking after animals in your care, as you are with trolling forums trying to justify dead animals as being "not abusive".


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

Pinkvboots said:



			bare hoof you seem to have a big knowledge of Arab names and the translation of them as listed on another thread on here, have you had much to do with Arab horses?
		
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Yes


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

saalsk said:



			I don't think I do. I have seen the images. The fact that you apparently found it acceptable, and justifiable, doesn't mean that it was. What a shame you didn't spend as much time and effort in looking after animals in your care, as you are with trolling forums trying to justify dead animals as being "not abusive".
		
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Well for someone who's an ex  officer I've seen my fair share of abuse , and those photos were taken at the equine support centre which is based at raskelf the GG centre as I took them !  Case closed !!


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## Amymay (5 September 2016)

I think,  Bare Hoof,  if you can't respond sensibly or answer some of the questions put, then your input has no value.


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## ester (5 September 2016)

saalsk didn't say photos she didn't say images? there is video too? Which photos are you referring to?


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

LadySam said:



			But we're not talking about cows or pigs, are we?  Why are you even here, Bare hoof?  You are clearly not going to change anybody's mind.  

Iam not here to change anyone's mind your entitled to your own opinions. And iam not going anywhere.
		
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## ester (5 September 2016)

If you're not going anywhere which case is closed then?


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

amymay said:



			I think,  Bare Hoof,  if you can't respond sensibly or answer some of the questions put, then your input has no value.
		
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What!!! , and all of you are sensibly responding are you... I think not! 
And my information is very valuable.


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

All the ones that were taken for our records which was leaked by a certain person to the paper


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

ester said:



			If you're not going anywhere which case is closed then?
		
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The case about the photographs.


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## Amymay (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			What!!! , and all of you are sensibly responding are you... I think not! 
And my information is very valuable.
		
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Valuable to whom? 

And there quite a few 'sensible' answers and points you've yet to address. 

Sorry your input thus far has absolutely no value.


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## saalsk (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			What!!! , and all of you are sensibly responding are you... I think not! 
And my information is very valuable.
		
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Your information is as flawed and pathetic as the excuses given as to why those horses ended up in that state. I think it sad that you are trying to justify what you did, and hide behind lies, excuses, and ridiculous attempts to make it look like other people are supporting your hideous acts.


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## be positive (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Well for someone who's an ex  officer I've seen my fair share of abuse , and those photos were taken at the equine support centre which is based at raskelf the GG centre as I took them !  Case closed !!
		
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So you took the photos at what stage, many of the horses were shot within days so even if they arrived in "perfect" condition they could not have gone downhill so quickly for the so called rescue centre to be blamed for them losing weight and becoming covered in rainscald etc.  Did you also take the video of the stables and kennels?

The fact that many were shot is a separate issue from the original case, but did have an effect on the outcome, and is not abuse in itself provided the end was humane and quick,  Taragun was definitely badly treated but the fact that they were signed over by the Peels speaks for itself, no one would allow their horses to be taken if there was not clear evidence of problems.

There are two different issues 1 the Peels negligence 2 the handling of the whole case by the charities involved, both sides were in the wrong but two wrongs do not make one side right.


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

I can only give my account of what happened , so if people what to ask relevant questions relating to the case , I will do my best to answer.


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## darli (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Why don't you ask cooper that question and Kat hamlington
		
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Because they didn't sign them over?


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## be positive (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I can only give my account of what happened , so if people what to ask relevant questions relating to the case , I will do my best to answer.
		
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But you haven't given an account of what happened, you have only hinted and made a few points, give a detailed account of what went on and we can then ask for details to be explained more fully, rather than a random collection of questions, not that I think you know what went on as so far your posts seem to be fairly pointless but it would be interesting to have an insiders view on how these poor horses were dealt with once they were in what should have been a place of safety.


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## ester (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			All the ones that were taken for our records which was leaked by a certain person to the paper
		
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Well yes, there is straw in those pics, so I always assumed they were not taken on the premises which seemed to have none. I didn't think there was any question as to where those pics were taken?


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## ossy (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			The case about the photographs.
		
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So the video in the horse and hound report was that taken by you? And if so where is that from?


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## ester (5 September 2016)

The video is at the peels 
the photos here are post rescue 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nued-claim-vet-stable-fees-months-deaths.html


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## Damnation (5 September 2016)

She was convicted of 4 counts of animal cruelty. The conviction was overturned due to the RSPCA's inability to contest the appeal due to the witnesses not coming forward. NOT because Rachelle Peel is innocent.

I am not interested in getting involved in your dsiplays of emotion so I have decided to approach this from a more clinical point of view - something I am rather good at.

Abuse dictionary definition: treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.
"riders who abuse their horses should be prosecuted"

Legal definition of animal abuse: n. the crime of inflicting physical pain, suffering or death on an animal, usually a tame one, beyond necessity for normal discipline. It can include neglect that is so monstrous (withholding food and water) that the animal has suffered, died or been put in imminent danger of death. (See: cruelty)




			Opening the case for the RSPCA at Blackburn Magistrates&#8217; Court, Iain O&#8217;Donnell said representatives of the Horses & Pony Protection Association attended Peel&#8217;s home address at Brookhouse Green Farm following a report of a dead horse in a field.
		
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			There were two living horses in the field and what appeared to be the remains of at least two more horses.
		
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			Inside the barn there were three horses which were living among the remains of four dead and decomposed horses.
		
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7 horses all dead, some decomposed so been there for some time.

I would say that having them in the same living quaters as living horses is within the legal definition of Animal Abuse.

Everything I have said here Barehoof is a direct quote from the internet in the public domain.

I would also lastly like to draw your attention to the legal requirements of the disposal of animals in England which Rachelle Peel and family also neglected to do.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fallen-stock


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

The horses that arrived at equine support were not shot within days upon arrival. Yes they needed a good brush , and quite frankly a good bath. There was some that needed a trim, but we're not excessively long. There body scoring was lean. There was 3 with rainrot and mud fever but again not aggressive , we had notes to say there were been treated. A lot of the horses were bungled into a very dark barn which was overcrowded. I expressed my concerns regarding the welfare of the horses been in the overcrowded barn,  But they were at breaking point and had no room. Hence why some got shot. They also could not be bothered to help them and spend money on medications to treat them. Also cooper Wilson got some of the horses mixed up in another case and unfortunately the peels horses got shot.


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## DD (5 September 2016)

Rachelle Peel, the horses destroyed needlessly by the rspca were signed over to them by you. If you are as innocent as you claim, why did you sign them over? If you had not done so, they could not have destroyed them but once they had ownership they did what they do to many animals they "own". It seems to me you signed over horses and ponies that no longer had any use to you - including dear Taragun. And why on earth did you allow those horses to be transported over 70 miles on what appears to have been a cattle wagon? Again, proof that these horses meant nothing to you or your family. Why could you not bring yourself to come on this forum and ask for help. There were any number of people who would have been there to help the horses but I guess you have far too much pride to ask for help after everything you used to write as Templars. You had most of us fooled but like our horses we have long, long memories and the Arab world will never ever forget those souls unlucky enough to have come into your ownership.

copied and pasted from AL.


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## ycbm (5 September 2016)

Your wildly varying ability to write is becoming hilarious. Exactly who do you think you are helping with these posts?


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## Damnation (5 September 2016)

I would now like your justification for the 7 decomposing horse carcasses.


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## DD (5 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			I would now like your justification for the 7 decomposing horse carcasses.
		
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me too


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## Blurr (5 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			I would now like your justification for the 7 decomposing horse carcasses.
		
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Having read this whole thread, I'd like the answer to this, too.


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## Damnation (5 September 2016)

I also find it curious that my factual posts and questions are being ignored. 

I have asked brought this up 3 times now, I await your response.


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## saalsk (5 September 2016)

or are you going to try to argue that perhaps they just needed a "good brush" or maybe a "bath" ?


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## ossy (5 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			I also find it curious that my factual posts and questions are being ignored. 

I have asked brought this up 3 times now, I await your response.
		
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Yes mine too about the h&h report video. Thankfully ester answer for me. 
I won't comment further on the rug hanging off as I've had to "rescue" one of mine once in the field that did that but in particular the condition those dogs were living in? Is that acceptable to you bare foot?


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## Red-1 (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			The horses that arrived at equine support were not shot within days upon arrival. Yes they needed a good brush , and quite frankly a good bath. There was some that needed a trim, but we're not excessively long. There body scoring was lean. There was 3 with rainrot and mud fever but again not aggressive , we had notes to say there were been treated. A lot of the horses were bungled into a very dark barn which was overcrowded. I expressed my concerns regarding the welfare of the horses been in the overcrowded barn,  But they were at breaking point and had no room. Hence why some got shot. They also could not be bothered to help them and spend money on medications to treat them. Also cooper Wilson got some of the horses mixed up in another case and unfortunately the peels horses got shot.
		
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I am not involved in the case, but think you are incorrect about the horses being shot by accident. I recollect a newspaper article where Cooper Wilson was quoted as saying that he wanted to find a home for at least one of the horses, but was ordered to PTS by the RSPCA nevertheless. I particularly remember the article as I recollect thinking that his quote would not have gone down well with the RSPCA, and his business with them may suffer. 

I believe it was at a time when he was having a lot of public flack, and I thought that he was trying to confirm that he was employed to PTS in a legal capacity, and was doing what he believed to be legally correct.

I have never knowingly met the man, I did once visit the GG centre to use the arenas, about 12 years ago, but will not be going back.

Nor will I be using C & C transport.


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

There was only two bodies at the farm. Black mare was one of them. As for cooper been ordered by the rscpa , yes this is true , but there's more to it. They were trying to cover up the deaths and keep it a secret, whilst claiming board and lodge for the dead horses. There were only 7 horses signed over all of which were older horses, and before you jump down my throat, no I don't think you should toss aside a older horse, or any animal for that matter. The peels were struggling and I could clearly see this, with the amount of animals they had. So signing over a few of them, would Indeed take the strain of the already difficulty situation they were in.
 Taragun chestnut mare was never signed over.


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## Damnation (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			There was only two bodies at the farm..
		
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Seven carcasses were put forward as evidence within the trial and reported in the papers. If this were untrue it would have been removed, therefore seven were found. This cannot be disputed.

Also, I find it alarming that you describe two dead animals, probably from the result of lack of care as "only two dead bodies". Two dead rotting carcasses that have not been disposed of is illegal. The fact that there were any at all is too high.

I suggest you remove your rose tinted glasses.


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## ribbons (5 September 2016)

be positive said:



			And some of the post is taken directly from the thread on Arabian lines which is by Evie? so is Bare hoof Evie in yet another guise?
		
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No, its Rachelle. AKA spirit13


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## paddi22 (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			There was only two bodies at the farm. .
		
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The fact that you say 'only' is disgusting. and also i'd assume false as it wouldn't have been allowed into evidence.  

If the Peels hadn't mistreated the horses so badly, then none of this would have happened. Both the peels and rspca are at fault, but the bigger guilt should rest on the peels for causing the situation in the first place.

Anyone who leaves two dead horses rotting on their property is disgusting, and there is no excuse in the world that can cover it


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## paddi22 (5 September 2016)

just watched that video. Barefoot, do you honestly believe that is deep littering??? really

its a disgusting, unmucked out bed that is just maid up of flattened ****. to keep a horse on that is disgraceful


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

The two bodies we're buried and had to be dug up. They had already been desposed of, they were buried like any beloved pet or a loved one. 
And as I mentioned earlier in one of my posts , the filming took place In the morning so fresh bedding had not been provided at that Time. And they were shelter sheds, they could come in and out as they pleased. A shelter is not on your priorities as first job at hand, especially when it's in a field not close to the stables. 
I don't need to justify myself as Iam going off the notes we had handed to us from this case.


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## paddi22 (5 September 2016)

that is bullshit about the beds. i have shelter stables and they don't look like that in the morning, and i have three horses that can go in and out as they please dragging mud from the field. what happens is poo builds up in areas, it doesn't just turn into a caked inches deep layer of pure **** like in that video, so thats a complete lie.   i'l take a pic of mine tomorrow, and mine is direct from a grass paddock that gets muddy

you still don't answer why seven bodies were submitted as evidence?


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## be positive (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			The horses that arrived at equine support were not shot within days upon arrival. Yes they needed a good brush , and quite frankly a good bath. There was some that needed a trim, but we're not excessively long. There body scoring was lean. There was 3 with rainrot and mud fever but again not aggressive , we had notes to say there were been treated. A lot of the horses were bungled into a very dark barn which was overcrowded. I expressed my concerns regarding the welfare of the horses been in the overcrowded barn,  But they were at breaking point and had no room. Hence why some got shot. They also could not be bothered to help them and spend money on medications to treat them. Also cooper Wilson got some of the horses mixed up in another case and unfortunately the peels horses got shot.
		
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This is actually, apart from the alleged mix up identity shooting,  pretty much how I see the horses from the photos and veterinary notes that were available, none had life threatening conditions, none were in  really poor condition that a few weeks of tlc would not make a huge difference and I do think the RSPCA were completely wrong in how they dealt with the whole scenario, it seemed to be that they took the easiest option rather than look at the bigger picture, the fact that they were all quality horses that would have been far easier to rehome than many they take in was never considered, they didn't look for solutions they just assumed that blood horses would not find homes easily and had them shot which as they were signed over they legally could.

BUT it does not explain why there were several, 7 probably, dead horses in the fields and barns at the Peels, it does not explain why the horses were allowed to get into the state they were while the "better" horses were cared for to a reasonable standard, it does not explain why the "unwanted" ones were signed over or why ALL the horses were removed at the same time or why RP has never shown any remorse for what went on, from reading the threads on AL RP has been having problems for many years yet continued to buy and breed more and more when it should be obvious that 30 plus horses require a huge amount of money, time and effort to care for properly and cutting down rather than getting more should have been the way forward, there is no sympathy for someone who cannot see what is going on around them and "deals" with it by burying their head in the sand while their horses are suffering, if RP had asked for help before the horses were taken she would have had offers of help from her many contacts but she was still in denial then and she is still in denial now.

I know how easy it is to have too many horses and how easily the odd thing gets missed when you have more than you should in the winter, I have missed the odd injury/ weight drop myself because I have rushed about trying to fit in too much but I deal with it at the first opportunity, in the case of injury this will be the next day and ensure the horse gets the care required ASAP before it becomes a welfare case, one horse looking a bit poor can be excused, them all looking a bit scruffy  can be excused, but  nothing can excuse live horses living with dead ones under their feet while they try to get to some hay, even if it was "only" 2 dead that is 2 too many and the bodies should have been removed or the live horses removed from the dead ones.


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## Bare hoof (5 September 2016)

I don't know why there was 7 horses on the farm. Our notes we were handed there was 7 that were signed over , 2 dead on the farm that had to be dug up , and 14 returned, 4 rehomed.


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## ossy (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I don't know why there was 7 horses on the farm. Our notes we were handed there was 7 that were signed over , 2 dead on the farm that had to be dug up , and 14 returned, 4 rehomed.
		
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If you don't know why the case against the peels were able to site 7 dead carcasses as evidence, maybe you should look for an answer to that before you try to defend them by only having 2 dead bodies.  Also the post on AL from Evie states 12 were returned so can you explain where this anomaly comes from?  Yes they may have some 14 in their procession but that is because 2 were apparently with Evie at harpbury and never removed.


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## ester (5 September 2016)

paddi22 said:



			that is bullshit about the beds. i have shelter stables and they don't look like that in the morning, and i have three horses that can go in and out as they please dragging mud from the field. what happens is poo builds up in areas, it doesn't just turn into a caked inches deep layer of pure **** like in that video, so thats a complete lie.   i'l take a pic of mine tomorrow, and mine is direct from a grass paddock that gets muddy

you still don't answer why seven bodies were submitted as evidence?
		
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Quite, the fact that someone can say 'fresh bedding had not been provided yet as it is the morning' and otherwise thinks that is ok has no business keeping horses IMO.


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## Leo Walker (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			You've obviously not been on a working cow and pig farm then , where the animals are deep littered threw the winter.
		
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Actually I was on one and am now on another. The animals all have clean dry beds. The concrete yard where they drive the tractor and where the cows walk in from the field gets covered in mud, but the yards and pens are clean, and dry


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## laura_nash (5 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			You've obviously not been on a working cow and pig farm then, where the animals are deep littered threw the winter.
		
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Coincidentally the last farm I paid to livery at was a former working pig farm in the process of becoming a working cow farm.  The cows they cared about (the dairy cows) wintered on sand which was regularly cleared out and replaced.  The young stock that was going to be slaughtered did winter in on deep littering.  I never saw it looking as messy as that, but it did smell and these cows suffered minor neglect generally (treatment of minor injuries, lameness etc.).  I don't think that is how you keep an animal if you actually care about its well-being and long-term health.  The owners certainly didn't keep their horses the same way!


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## Sheik (5 September 2016)

Unfortunately this is how some people keep there animals


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## Sheik (5 September 2016)

ester said:



			Quite, the fact that someone can say 'fresh bedding had not been provided yet as it is the morning' and otherwise thinks that is ok has no business keeping horses IMO.
		
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Agree ester


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## Damnation (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I don't know why there was 7 horses on the farm. Our notes we were handed there was 7 that were signed over , 2 dead on the farm that had to be dug up , and 14 returned, 4 rehomed.
		
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As 7 dead bodies were entered as court evidence, there will have been video's and pictures to back this up. This part of the case cannot be desputed. The conviction was overturned not over her lack of care to the animals or the evidence provided, but due to the RSPCA's procedures. (E.g. Lying about the fate of the animals and the fraudulent claims)

I suggest you stop defending their actions if you are not infact in posession of the true facts of the case. The majority of which are readily available online in the public domain with a quick google search.


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## paddi22 (6 September 2016)

it sucha ridiculous thing to come on defending to. it's like say 'i shot someone, but then they went to the hospital and the hospital made it worse, aren't the hospital terrible?' 

Yes, the hospital IS terrible, but they wouldn't have been there if you hadn't shot them in the first place!


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## Clare85 (6 September 2016)

Just sat and read through this entire thread. Anyone with eyes and half a brain can clearly see from the video that those poor animals were being kept in utterly horrific conditions.

Bare Foot - you can see that the horses are fetlock deep their own poo. There is no way they can get out of those sheds, otherwise they would not be in there. They are trapped in squalid conditions with no access to food or water. The dogs are being kept in the same conditions. I find it despicable that you would try and defend anyone who would do that to other living beings; which leads me to believe that you were involved in the perpetration of the cruelty inflicted on those poor creatures.

If you are so interested in facts and unveiling the "truth" of this matter as you see it, then I suggest you post a step by step account of what you believe to be the truth, and validate it with the evidence you claim to have. Otherwise, I see no point in you continuing to post on this thread.


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## Wella (6 September 2016)

Clare85 said:



			Just sat and read through this entire thread. Anyone with eyes and half a brain can clearly see from the video that those poor animals were being kept in utterly horrific conditions.

Bare Foot - you can see that the horses are fetlock deep their own poo. There is no way they can get out of those sheds, otherwise they would not be in there. They are trapped in squalid conditions with no access to food or water. The dogs are being kept in the same conditions. I find it despicable that you would try and defend anyone who would do that to other living beings; which leads me to believe that you were involved in the perpetration of the cruelty inflicted on those poor creatures.

If you are so interested in facts and unveiling the "truth" of this matter as you see it, then I suggest you post a step by step account of what you believe to be the truth, and validate it with the evidence you claim to have. Otherwise, I see no point in you continuing to post on this thread.
		
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Very well said and put.


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## DD (6 September 2016)

horrific


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## LadySam (6 September 2016)

be positive said:



			And some of the post is taken directly from the thread on Arabian lines which is by Evie? so is Bare hoof Evie in yet another guise?
		
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ribbons said:



			No, its Rachelle. AKA spirit13
		
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No, it's not.  I know who it is.  Suddenly the empathy for the Peels made much more sense.  And I also know that Sheik and Bare hoof are the same person, despite this little bit of hypocrisy:







Nice attempt at a red herring there, Bare Sheik.


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## ester (6 September 2016)

hmm good spot. Nothing like a few more multiple personalities knocking around.


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## FreyaBean (6 September 2016)

Sack full of crazy.

So, you have one person, with multiple accounts, all under different names.
Then, when they finally realise that their argument isn't going their way, and no one is going to give up with trying to get the truth... They make another account, perhaps to try and befriend some of the people they've just been battling with.

Sack. Full. Of. Crazy.

Bare what ever your name is, why don't you stop messing people about, and start answering their questions honestly?
If you are so set on knowing the truth and seeing the innocence of these vile peel people, surely you are in the perfect position to let everyone know what happened to all of the horses?
From the horses who were taken away - all 31 of them please, to the ones who have been forgotten.

And please, enough with the manic peel defense team c*ap, none of us care about them. We care about the animals who were under the care and protection, and instead, had the most awful end.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

Ha ha ha ha ha it's so laughable ... sack full of crazy ... Yep that's you lot on here slating this innocent family. Why don't some of you go and get a life and stop harassing the peels. Iam only one person how the hell can I be loads of different people . Get a grip ladies.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

LadySam said:



			No, it's not.  I know who it is.  Suddenly the empathy for the Peels made much more sense.  And I also know that Sheik and Bare hoof are the same person, despite this little bit of hypocrisy:







Nice attempt at a red herring there, Bare Sheik.
		
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Ha ha ha so funny I can be loads of different people this sheik person has been on here since 2014 . I suggest you get your facts right ladysam , I think it's particularly amusing.


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## ester (6 September 2016)

the thing is that all old posts are stored.... Sheik had plenty to say about cooper wilson previously so you have very much been in the same places in life, around the same times... at the very least I suspect you know each other.


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## Damnation (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Ha ha ha ha ha it's so laughable ... sack full of crazy ... Yep that's you lot on here slating this innocent family. Why don't some of you go and get a life and stop harassing the peels. Iam only one person how the hell can I be loads of different people . Get a grip ladies.
		
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They are innocent by default of a failed appeal due to the procedural errors of the RSPCA. Not because their acts did not amount to animal cruelty - they did. 




			Mrs Peels conviction for animal neglect has now been overturned after the charity refused to offer any evidence to contest her appeal.
		
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Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sses-refuse-testify-appeal.html#ixzz4JUN0fcbJ


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Ha ha ha ha ha it's so laughable ... sack full of crazy ... Yep that's you lot on here slating this innocent family. Why don't some of you go and get a life and stop harassing the peels. Iam only one person how the hell can I be loads of different people . Get a grip ladies.
		
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Fairly easy to be whoever and how every many you like online.... 
As I said before anyone who thinks those conditions are ok and are excusable has no business keeping animals, shod or not. 
Are you ignoring the key points re court evidence submitted for any particular reason?


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ester said:



			the thing is that all old posts are stored.... Sheik had plenty to say about cooper wilson previously so you have very much been in the same places in life, around the same times... at the very least I suspect you know each other.
		
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Yes we do know each other


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Gosh what a coincidence, you know loads of people .


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## FreyaBean (6 September 2016)

Lord almighty.
In some cases, talking to people like Bare Hoof, is a waste of time and energy.
If someone is deluded enough to believe animal neglect through 'personal circumstances' is innocent and excusable, it's a losing battle.
Answer the questions everyone has asked of you Bare Hoof, or, stop trolling


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Of course all it actually does is extend the thread and make it even more likely to come up on a google search of the named, because as you may have noticed the horse and hound forum always comes high up on searches anyway and the more pages tends to then push it to the top of the H+H bit.
and that more people might dip in as it stays up the top of the 'new threads' page which most use.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

FreyaBean said:



			Lord almighty.
In some cases, talking to people like Bare Hoof, is a waste of time and energy.
If someone is deluded enough to believe animal neglect through 'personal circumstances' is innocent and excusable, it's a losing battle.
Answer the questions everyone has asked of you Bare Hoof, or, stop trolling
		
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Trolling wow thanks a Lovley compliment . I have answered all questions. 
And yes it's a losing battle when the same bunch of bullies on here are the same as on Arabian lines , I have every right to be on here like everyone else has 
And I stand my ground with my defence .


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## FreyaBean (6 September 2016)

So really, keeping it in the public eye, more people will get the facts and not the fiction that may have been stated, and possibly (one can hope) find some actual truth from someone who isn't deluded. 
Pity it can't be a pinned post really


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ester said:



			Of course all it actually does is extend the thread and make it even more likely to come up on a google search of the named, because as you may have noticed the horse and hound forum always comes high up on searches anyway and the more pages tends to then push it to the top of the H+H bit.
and that more people might dip in as it stays up the top of the 'new threads' page which most use.
		
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Just like the thread on Arabian lines then


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## FreyaBean (6 September 2016)

Not once have I said that you don't have a right to be on this forum.


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## ester (6 September 2016)

You have answered all the questions? No really, you have certainly missed quite a few, that have been asked several times.

I am neither a bully or on AL, just interested in the facts, which you don't seem to have either despite your protestations that many of the current 'facts' are wrong.


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Just like the thread on Arabian lines then
		
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yes but we get a lot more traffic here.


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## Damnation (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Trolling wow thanks a Lovley compliment . I have answered all questions. 
And yes it's a losing battle when the same bunch of bullies on here are the same as on Arabian lines , I have every right to be on here like everyone else has 
And I stand my ground with my defence .
		
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You have continued to ignore my points made.

I specifically worded them to ensure that you cannot tarnish me with the "bully" stick as everythig I have said can be backed up.

I now have one final question.

Do you think it is acceptable to keep horses with no access to water or in the same pen/field as rotting carcasses?

For me, this is what it boils down to. If you can defend that then quite frankly I wouldn't trust you with the care of my dirty left sock.


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			And I stand my ground with *my defence* .
		
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Your defence? of yourself, the peels or the whole situation?


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## FreyaBean (6 September 2016)

As far as I can tell, there are plenty of questions that have not been answered. Skirted around perhaps, yes. But certainly not answered.

Abuse and neglect is not defendable in my eyes. There are no excuses and plenty of innocent lives were lost. No defense possible.


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## DD (6 September 2016)

to get back top the original theme, the Peels left horses to starve to death , kept in horrendous conditions and also dogs badly looked after too. horrendous. they should aLL BE BANNED FOR LIFE FROM KEEPING ANY ANIMAL AT ALL.


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## FreyaBean (6 September 2016)

The Peels should never be allowed near another animal, let alone be allowed the privilege of owning animals.


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## ossy (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Trolling wow thanks a Lovley compliment . I have answered all questions. 
And yes it's a losing battle when the same bunch of bullies on here are the same as on Arabian lines , I have every right to be on here like everyone else has 
And I stand my ground with my defence .
		
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Actually I've asked plenty of questions which you haven't addressed.  And actually although I have read the response from Evie on AL I haven't got a log in or joined in any posts on there, I have a WB thanks, so no we are not all the same.  

You don't seem to be able to bring any evidence to convince anyone on here of the innosense of the peels, but whoever you are, spirt13, Danielle, one of or friends of the peels or just some troll playing a game I'm happy to play along as it's keeping this thread up at the top of this page for all to see.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ossy said:



			actually i've asked plenty of questions which you haven't addressed.  And actually although i have read the response from evie on al i haven't got a log in or joined in any posts on there, i have a wb thanks, so no we are not all the same.  

You don't seem to be able to bring any evidence to convince anyone on here of the innosense of the peels, but whoever you are, spirt13, danielle, one of or friends of the peels or just some troll playing a game i'm happy to play along as it's keeping this thread up at the top of this page for all to see.
		
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game on


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## ossy (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			game on
		
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Go and answer some of my questions then please.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

What questions have I not answered ossy?


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## Damnation (6 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			You have continued to ignore my points made.

I specifically worded them to ensure that you cannot tarnish me with the "bully" stick as everythig I have said can be backed up.

I now have one final question.

Do you think it is acceptable to keep horses with no access to water or in the same pen/field as rotting carcasses?

For me, this is what it boils down to. If you can defend that then quite frankly I wouldn't trust you with the care of my dirty left sock.
		
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Bare hoof said:



			What questions have I not answered ossy?
		
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Answer mine.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			Answer mine.
		
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Exactly were in the video or photos does it show dead horses . It dosnt and like I said the RSPCA have plotted and been in conspiracy with the whole case 
Mabie you would like to talk to cooper or Mabie Kat as they were involved aswell.


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Damnation is not referring to the video, nowhere did she mention that? Obviously that short video clip is not the sum of the evidence presented at court! 



Damnation said:



			Seven carcasses were put forward as evidence within the trial and reported in the papers. If this were untrue it would have been removed, therefore seven were found. This cannot be disputed.

Also, I find it alarming that you describe two dead animals, probably from the result of lack of care as "only two dead bodies". Two dead rotting carcasses that have not been disposed of is illegal. The fact that there were any at all is too high.

I suggest you remove your rose tinted glasses.
		
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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ester said:



			Your defence? of yourself, the peels or the whole situation?
		
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The case and the peels


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## ossy (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			What questions have I not answered ossy?
		
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On phone so can't easily multi quote but below is a brief list. 
1. At which point did Rochelle have to prove her innocence? The conviction was quashed on failure of witness to turn up as the debacle of the shot horses had emerged at this point. 
2. The video on the h&h report- was this taken by you? Where was taken? 
3. In particular about the video horses aside, the condition those dogs were in, do you really think that is acceptable? 
4. If you don't know why the case against the Peels was able to site 7 dead carcasses in their case then why are you defending them saying there was only 2. And can you find out why then? 
5. Can you explain the anomaly between what you said your notes say and what Evie said on her response in AL, ie you state 14 were returned and Evie stated 12 were returned.


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## Meowy Catkin (6 September 2016)

Hypothetically though, do you think it is acceptable to keep horses with no access to water or in the same pen/field as rotting carcasses?


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ester said:



			Damnation is not referring to the video, nowhere did she mention that? Obviously that short video clip is not the sum of the evidence presented at court!
		
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The papers are not that accurate if you listen to newspaper articles then you are a long way from the truth. The two horses that were buried ... Let me rephrase that BURIED . You know like a pet , or a loved one in a church yard. If you read Evie's statement on Arabian lines they had died  of sycamore poison. 
Hmmm yes and the 7 carcasses you state were put forward  in court . Were you there at the hearing ?  or was it what the papers have said , which quite frankly is a load of lies.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ossy said:



			On phone so can't easily multi quote but below is a brief list. 
1. At which point did Rochelle have to prove her innocence? The conviction was quashed on failure of witness to turn up as the debacle of the shot horses had emerged at this point. 
2. The video on the h&h report- was this taken by you? Where was taken? 
3. In particular about the video horses aside, the condition those dogs were in, do you really think that is acceptable? 
4. If you don't know why the case against the Peels was able to site 7 dead carcasses in their case then why are you defending them saying there was only 2. And can you find out why then? 
5. Can you explain the anomaly between what you said your notes say and what Evie said on her response in AL, ie you state 14 were returned and Evie stated 12 were returned.
		
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1 - Rachelle was innocent all along and it was cooper that was the witness. 
2- the video was not taken by me but by a colleague 
3-dont know about the dogs as I did not deal with them. 
4-iam defending them because there are a nice,  honest,  Decent family that has been targeted. And the notes we were handed from the case said they had dug up 2 horses at the farm to Clarify there identity.
5-yes 12 were returned as 2 were rehomed there was 14 altogether to be returned but 2 were found homes. Sorry if that got confusion.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

Faracat said:



			Hypothetically though, do you think it is acceptable to keep horses with no access to water or in the same pen/field as rotting carcasses?
		
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Exactly were have you heard this ? Papers maybe ? 
And yes horses should have access to clean fresh water .


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## ossy (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			1 - Rachelle was innocent all along and it was cooper that was the witness. 
2- the video was not taken by me but by a colleague 
3-dont know about the dogs as I did not deal with them. 
4-iam defending them because there are a nice,  honest,  Decent family that has been targeted. And the notes we were handed from the case said they had dug up 2 horses at the farm to Clarify there identity.
5-yes 12 were returned as 2 were rehomed there was 14 altogether to be returned but 2 were found homes. Sorry if that got confusion.
		
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Thanks for the reply.  Couple points Rochelle was found guilty, so not innocent all along, so when was her innocence proved apart from technicalities of copper refusing to re-testify. 
You may not have dealt with the dogs but the condition they were living in is clear to see in the video, so for what is on it, is that acceptable? 
Where is the evidence that what has been reported is lies? Apart from the stuff associated with the shootings 

And lastly nice honest people at the very least would admit their mistake take responsibility and show some remorse for getting themselves into that situation in the first place.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

I have. Question for you all 
How would you feel if the RSPCA came onto your property and took your animals away , and said you have neglected them. Then they go into RSPCA holdings only to suffer evan  more


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## Damnation (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Exactly were in the video or photos does it show dead horses . It dosnt and like I said the RSPCA have plotted and been in conspiracy with the whole case 
Mabie you would like to talk to cooper or Mabie Kat as they were involved aswell.
		
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I did not refer to the video in my final question to you.



Faracat said:



			Hypothetically though, do you think it is acceptable to keep horses with no access to water or in the same pen/field as rotting carcasses?
		
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This is the question I asked twice for you to deflect the answer. I will not drop this.

http://www.urban75.org/info/libel.html

For your information - if what has been printed is untrue and Rachelle's reputation has been damaged by the "untrue" accusations and "conspiricies" then it would fall under "libel".

I notice this course of action has not been taken.

I also add that my question stems from Vetenary Evidence and from charity workers, submitted in the original trial whereby the amount of carcasses found was clarified and the fact that some horses had no access to water was also pointed out.

http://www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.u...in-muddy-slaidburn-field-court-told-1-7226978

http://www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.uk/news/crime/slaidbuirn-animal-cruelty-case-under-way-1-7224723


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ossy said:



			Thanks for the reply.  Couple points Rochelle was found guilty, so not innocent all along, so when was her innocence proved apart from technicalities of copper refusing to re-testify. 
You may not have dealt with the dogs but the condition they were living in is clear to see in the video, so for what is on it, is that acceptable? 
Where is the evidence that what has been reported is lies? Apart from the stuff associated with the shootings 

And lastly nice honest people at the very least would admit their mistake take responsibility and show some remorse for getting themselves into that situation in the first place.
		
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Your welcome 
The video is not that clear but yes I could see it needed cleaning out where the dogs were . Compared to the cases I've delt with over the years this was not as dirty as some I have seen , but still yes i agree needed a clean out. From what I could see the dogs condition was fine . Same as the majority of the horses.


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## Damnation (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Exactly were have you heard this ? Papers maybe ? 
And yes horses should have access to clean fresh water .
		
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You have not answered the first question.


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## Damnation (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I have. Question for you all 
How would you feel if the RSPCA came onto your property and took your animals away , and said you have neglected them. Then they go into RSPCA holdings only to suffer evan  more
		
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They wouldn't have any need to. I don't have rotting carcasses on my livery yard, and my horse is healthy with her basic needs like water and feed attended to at all times.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

For your information - if what has been printed is untrue and Rachelle's reputation has been damaged by the "untrue" accusations and "conspiricies" then it would fall under "libel".

I notice this course of action has not been taken.


And you know this for sure do you ? 
Let's hope she is taking action


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			You have not answered the first question.
		
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Yes I have


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## Damnation (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Yes I have
		
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The dead Carcasses. Is that acceptable?




			Judge Clarke said that throughout the lengthy trial Peel had demonstrated a persistent unwillingness to accept any shortcomings on her part.

&#8220;You saw yourself very much the victim and you laid blame at a series of others in how they dealt with you and your family and with how they treated the horses. There was in some instances an obstinate refusal to accept even the most compelling evidence of neglect,&#8221; said Judge Clarke.
		
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"Compelling Evidence", "Refused to admit any short comings on her part", seems legit...

http://www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.u...eder-found-guilty-of-animal-neglect-1-7441605


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

I can only answer what I know, if you want more information then please, don't hesitate to contact copper Wilson / kat hamlington/ RSPCA / or the peels themselfs


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## Damnation (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			For your information - if what has been printed is untrue and Rachelle's reputation has been damaged by the "untrue" accusations and "conspiricies" then it would fall under "libel".

I notice this course of action has not been taken.


And you know this for sure do you ? 
Let's hope she is taking action
		
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No, admittedly I don't.

But, it's still on the internet so.... I'm going to take a wild guess at the likelihood of that course of action.

I doubt pictures and video's of dead animals and crap smothered horses that were more than probably submitted as evidence during the original trial and therefore proven as true therefore NOT libel will exonerate her.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			The dead Carcasses. Is that acceptable?



is this a personal question toward myself ?

As I have mixed views on fallen stock given the circumstances.
		
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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			No, admittedly I don't.

But, it's still on the internet so.... I'm going to take a wild guess at the likelihood of that course of action.

I doubt pictures and video's of dead animals and crap smothered horses that were more than probably submitted as evidence during the original trial and therefore proven as true therefore NOT libel will exonerate her.
		
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Wild guessing ,  is not the way but only to speculate. And ruin ones reputations.


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## ossy (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I can only answer what I know, if you want more information then please, don't hesitate to contact copper Wilson / kat hamlington/ RSPCA / or the peels themselfs
		
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I'll say it again then where in what you have said is the evidence to prove us wrong apart from your own speculation. 

And if the RSPC came accusing me of neglate they wouldn't have a leg to stand on as my horse won't be in the state like that of the video.


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## Meowy Catkin (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Exactly were have you heard this ? Papers maybe ? 
And yes horses should have access to clean fresh water .
		
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Did you miss the word 'hypothetically'?

How about live horses living in pens with dead horses (again hypothetically)? Is it acceptable or not?


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## be positive (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I have. Question for you all 
How would you feel if the RSPCA came onto your property and took your animals away , and said you have neglected them. Then they go into RSPCA holdings only to suffer evan  more
		
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They would not take my animals away as they would have no grounds to do so, Rachelle Peel signed over a group of the horses which she did not have to do, she was found GUILTY in the first hearing and was not proved innocent but let off on technicalities not because she had done nothing wrong but because the RSPCA had messed up.

The charity worker stated in court that he came across 7 dead horses in various stages of decomposition on his first visit are you suggesting he dug them up? Cooper was NOT the only witness for the prosecution he was one of several including the vets involved.

It still comes back to the fact that if the Peels had taken better care of their horses they would not have ended up in the "rescue" centre to be further abused or shot.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

Faracat said:



			Did you miss the word 'hypothetically'?

How about live horses living in pens with dead horses (again hypothetically)? Is it acceptable or not?
		
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" hypothetical speaking" no it is not.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

The charity worker stated in court that he came across 7 dead horses in various stages of decomposition on his first visit are you suggesting he dug them up? Cooper was NOT the only witness for the prosecution he was one of several including the vets involved.

your hard work you lot .. Ha ha 
Yes you are right there was other witnesses , and some that were too scared to come forward and give there evidence.


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## Frumpoon (6 September 2016)

Because the peels have a reputation?


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ossy said:



			I'll say it again then where in what you have said is the evidence to prove us wrong apart from your own speculation. 

Iam not speculating because I was there.
		
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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

Frumpoon said:



			Because the peels have a reputation?
		
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The have a fantastic reputable reputation, which is now been ruined.


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## Frumpoon (6 September 2016)

A reputable reputation, good grief, how marvellous!

Why were the witnesses scared again, do tell...


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

Frumpoon said:



			A reputable reputation, good grief, how marvellous!

Why were the witnesses scared again, do tell...
		
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Because of the threats they got . Have you not read my statement on Arabian lines ? 
Oh yeh it got removed didn't it .


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## ossy (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			But we don't know who you are or for fact you were there do we? so we only have your speculation
		
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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ossy said:



			But we don't know who you are or for fact you were there do we? so we only have your speculation
		
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People know who I am iam not hiding like some people do 
I don't know who you are or many people on here as they hide behind there keyboard , what's the point in that , I have nothing to hide


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## Meowy Catkin (6 September 2016)

According to a post on AL, it seems that someone had doubts about the Peel's level of horse care as far back as 2008.




			Your absolutely right 'evie' I know very little about you (or your Mother) on a personal level, but I DO have first hand experience of what happens to yours and your mothers horses and the lies that you both tell what I have posted is 'fact and can be verified' with Justy for instance I have the emails, photo's and independent witnesses of the state she came back in and the all the hassle I had to put up with, and that goes back as far as 2008.
		
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http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=56094&whichpage=3


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## ycbm (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I have. Question for you all 
How would you feel if the RSPCA came onto your property and took your animals away , and said you have neglected them. Then they go into RSPCA holdings only to suffer evan  more
		
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There is no possibility of my animals ever being taken away by the RSPCA, they would have no grounds to do so and I certainly wouldn't sign them over.  It wouldn't worry me one jot to have a call from the RSPCA.

People who don't have horse carcasses in amongst their live horses don't tend to have anything to fear regarding the RSPCA or the loss of their good reputation.


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## paddi22 (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			The have a fantastic reputable reputation, which is now been ruined.
		
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eh, their reputation started going downhill a few years ago.


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## ycbm (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			People know who I am iam not hiding like some people do 
I don't know who you are or many people on here as they hide behind there keyboard , what's the point in that , I have nothing to hide
		
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You look like you are hiding your identity from where I'm sitting. Who are you, if you aren't hiding your identity?


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## be positive (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			People know who I am iam not hiding like some people do 
I don't know who you are or many people on here as they hide behind there keyboard , what's the point in that , I have nothing to hide
		
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Most of us have no idea who you are so you are hiding your identity from everyone on this forum.


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## Archangel (6 September 2016)

I don't understand why two dead horses in the field had to be dug up to establish identity.  What was the point of that?  The RSCA were shooting horses left right and centre anyway they weren't matching identities then it seems and certainly hadn't contacted the AHS - how were the two in the field connected to the case?  How did they know about the two in the field anyway come to that?  

Why exactly were witnesses allowed to duck out of appeal - especially the ones paid by the RSCA?  What is Cooper Wilson doing now - still communicating with horses?


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## ossy (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			People know who I am iam not hiding like some people do 
I don't know who you are or many people on here as they hide behind there keyboard , what's the point in that , I have nothing to hide
		
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I have no idea who you are no.


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## Frumpoon (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Because of the threats they got . Have you not read my statement on Arabian lines ? 
Oh yeh it got removed didn't it .
		
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The witnesses got threats? From associates of the peels ?..


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## paddi22 (6 September 2016)

who knows who you are? you have an internet forum name??? that makes no sense

in that case you know who i am?!


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

be positive said:



			Most of us have no idea who you are so you are hiding your identity from everyone on this forum.
		
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And most of us have no idea who you are ,or the rest of people on here


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

paddi22 said:



			eh, their reputation started going downhill a few years ago.
		
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How ?


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

paddi22 said:



			who knows who you are? you have an internet forum name??? that makes no sense

in that case you know who i am?!
		
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Ditto !


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## ycbm (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			And most of us have no idea who you are ,or the rest of people on here
		
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We are not claiming to know things about a criminal case and potential libel case, and you are. But if you don't say who you are, no-one has a clue whether you know what you are talking about, are one of the abusers or just a troll having a fun time.

It's irrelevant who we are, who are you?


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

Why exactly were witnesses allowed to duck out of appeal - especially the ones paid by the RSCA?  What is Cooper Wilson doing now - still communicating with horses?[/QUOTE]

He's had his gun licence taken off him ,but is still shooting horses. illegally!!!


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			We are not claiming to know things about a criminal case and potential libel case, and you are. But if you don't say who you are, no-one has a clue whether you know what you are talking about, are one of the abusers or just a troll having a fun time.

It's irrelevant who we are, who are you?
		
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Iam an ex employee of equine support along with the police officers
What else would people like to know , I will do my best to answer


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## be positive (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			And most of us have no idea who you are ,or the rest of people on here
		
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No most people on here don't but I am not on here defending the indefensible, claiming to have inside information that makes the Peels the innocent victims when all the evidence points to them being negligent, if I had information such as you claim to have then I would be far clearer in my claims and be happy to say who I am for those that do not already know me personally. 
For now I choose to remain anonymous to the majority of the forum, many on here do know each other in real life and are happy to declare their connection, no one seems to know you or have yet to come on and say so


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## Tiddlypom (6 September 2016)

Who are equine support?


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## chillipup (6 September 2016)

Archangel said:



			I don't understand why two dead horses in the field had to be dug up to establish identity.  What was the point of that?  The RSCA were shooting horses left right and centre anyway they weren't matching identities then it seems and certainly hadn't contacted the AHS - how were the two in the field connected to the case?  How did they know about the two in the field anyway come to that?  

Why exactly were witnesses allowed to duck out of appeal - especially the ones paid by the RSCA?  What is Cooper Wilson doing now - still communicating with horses?
		
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The Happa rep saw them first when they went to investigate at Brookhouse Green Farm. Other carcases were later found at the Peel's barn in Knotts Lane when the Happa rep called in the Police and RSPCA.

With regard the witnesses, I can only assume that after the first hearing, some witnesses may have became what's known as a 'hostile witness' and were not happy about going to Crown Court on the Appeal. I would suggest this may have included Cooper Wilson and perhaps the vets (who also found difficulty, (not surprisingly) in keeping accurate records, allegedly) I think it would be difficult for the RSPCA to go ahead with the appeal with their main witnesses not completely happy because of the public outcry after the first trial. Although I wouldn't have thought the Police,who were involved and gave evidence as witnesses the first time round, were bothered whether they had to go to Crown court or not on Appeal.

I'm not sure any dead horses had to be 'dug up' I understand that the carcases were easily visible.


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## paddi22 (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			People know who I am iam not hiding like some people do 
I don't know who you are or many people on here as they hide behind there keyboard , what's the point in that , I have nothing to hide
		
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eh just to reiterate. nobody has any idea who you are, unless you are from some indian tribe and barefoot is your actual name


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## chillipup (6 September 2016)

Tiddlypom said:



			Who are equine support?
		
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According to their faceache account, they are an equine support service to the equine industry and help with transportation to course building matters and everything in between. I wonder who called them in? and in what capacity?


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## ossy (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Why exactly were witnesses allowed to duck out of appeal - especially the ones paid by the RSCA?  What is Cooper Wilson doing now - still communicating with horses?
		
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He's had his gun licence taken off him ,but is still shooting horses. illegally!!![/QUOTE]

Due to this case or due to incident with the GG Center shooting and dumping?


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## Siennasong (6 September 2016)

I have just read through the whole thread and am stuck for words. This is unbelievable. This whole abuse makes my heart hurt so much and I just feel so angry the Peels are allowed to keep animals! Are they at least being monitered? Please some one tell me they are being watched closely! Also, Barefoot, you are a disgrace and this will be my first and last post on this thread but wanted to say you also should not be allowed to keep animals. Reading your comments, you don't seem to think the conditions of the dogs or horses were bad at all, you think the video is ok and that things don't look so bad. If this is your view on animal care then you should not be allowed anywhere near animals. My heart aches when I find out people like you are involved in the animal world. Poor poor things.. Please just go away and shut up because you are not helping in any way with your pathetic 'defence'. There is no defence. Or as others have mentioned, please stay and continue to post so this stays in the public eye.


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			1 - Rachelle was innocent all along and it was cooper that was the witness. 
2- the video was not taken by me but by a colleague 
3-dont know about the dogs as I did not deal with them. 
4-iam defending them because there are a nice,  honest,  Decent family that has been targeted. And the notes we were handed from the case said they had dug up 2 horses at the farm to Clarify there identity.
5-yes 12 were returned as 2 were rehomed there was 14 altogether to be returned but 2 were found homes. Sorry if that got confusion.
		
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Who gave you the notes from the case? Who wrote these notes that you say are so correct? 



Bare hoof said:



			The papers are not that accurate if you listen to newspaper articles then you are a long way from the truth. The two horses that were buried ... Let me rephrase that BURIED . You know like a pet , or a loved one in a church yard. *If you read Evie's statement on Arabian lines they had died  of sycamore poison. *
Hmmm yes and the 7 carcasses you state were put forward  in court . Were you there at the hearing ?  or was it what the papers have said , which quite frankly is a load of lies.
		
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Well if you believe Evie's statement yes, apparently they conveniently did. Of course the papers are not always wholly accurate but they are pretty well practiced in reporting court proceedings (by which I do not mean the daily fail) and 5 non dead horses would be a lot.




Bare hoof said:



			Your welcome 
The video is not that clear but yes I could see it needed cleaning out where the dogs were . Compared to the cases I've delt with over the years this was not as dirty as some I have seen , but still yes i agree needed a clean out. From what I could see the dogs condition was fine . Same as the *majority* of the horses.
		
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So only the majority of the horses were in fine condition? Do the rest not matter as far as you are concerned then?

So the dogs needed cleaning out but not the horses? they just needed a sprinkle of morning straw on top that clearly was happening every morning given the state of the pens.


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## FreyaBean (6 September 2016)

paddi22 said:



			eh just to reiterate. nobody has any idea who you are, unless you are from some indian tribe and barefoot is your actual name
		
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That's the best thing I've read all night &#128514;

It seems questions are still being avoided and deflected.
Why do you seem to have a personal vendetta against Cooper Wilson?


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ossy said:



			He's had his gun licence taken off him ,but is still shooting horses. illegally!!!
		
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Due to this case or due to incident with the GG Center shooting and dumping?[/QUOTE]
The incident with the shooting of a livery horse


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

FreyaBean said:



			That's the best thing I've read all night &#55357;&#56834;

It seems questions are still being avoided and deflected.
Why do you seem to have a personal vendetta against Cooper Wilson?
		
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When have I ever said I had a personal vendetta against this man ?


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## ester (6 September 2016)

'RACHELLE PEEL, 56, of Brookhouse Green Farm, Slaidburn.
Dead horses left in muddy Slaidburn field
An animal charity worker has told how he found horses sharing a muddy field with the carcasses of dead horses.
Other horses living in buildings around the remote Slaidburn farmhouse were kept in appalling conditions, although their bodily condition was good.
Giving evidence on the second day of the trial of Rachelle Peel, Mr Peter Bartlett said he had attended at Brookhouse Green Farm, Slaidburn, after the Horses and Ponies Protection Association received information there was a dead horse in a field.
He saw seven living horses in a muddy field that he described as bottomless. Mr Bartlett set off to walk up the field but had to turn back after sinking up to his knees. He went up the side and when he reached higher ground discovered the carcasses of two horses, one with a rug on and the other without.'

So you are suggesting Mr Bartlett is wrong to say he saw the carcasses of two horses, because they were both buried? one with a rug on? and had somehow worked their way to the surface?


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## ycbm (6 September 2016)

OK, at the risk of breaking forum rules, Bare  Hoof and I have been having a PM exchange. As part of this exchange she claimed to be one person and friend with another, a police woman. Her latest message claims to be an ex police woman and mentions the first person she claimed to be as a third person. Quite honestly, she doesn't sound quite 'on this planet' and I suggest that we all stop engaging with her.


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## Wella (6 September 2016)

chillipup said:



			The Happa rep saw them first when they went to investigate at Brookhouse Green Farm. Other carcases were later found at the Peel's barn in Knotts Lane when the Happa rep called in the Police and RSPCA.

With regard the witnesses, I can only assume that after the first hearing, some witnesses may have became what's known as a 'hostile witness' and were not happy about going to Crown Court on the Appeal. I would suggest this may have included Cooper Wilson and perhaps the vets (who also found difficulty, (not surprisingly) in keeping accurate records, allegedly) I think it would be difficult for the RSPCA to go ahead with the appeal with their main witnesses not completely happy because of the public outcry after the first trial. Although I wouldn't have thought the Police,who were involved and gave evidence as witnesses the first time round, were bothered whether they had to go to Crown court or not on Appeal.

I'm not sure any dead horses had to be 'dug up' I understand that the carcases were easily visible.
		
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Yes Happa did go in first then realised it was to big for them and got the RSCA i . I'm sure the first report was by Happa.


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ester said:



			Who gave you the notes from the case? Who wrote these notes that you say are so 
The RSPCA did.
		
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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ester said:



			'RACHELLE PEEL, 56, of Brookhouse Green Farm, Slaidburn.
Dead horses left in muddy Slaidburn field
An animal charity worker has told how he found horses sharing a muddy field with the carcasses of dead horses.
Other horses living in buildings around the remote Slaidburn farmhouse were kept in &#8220;appalling&#8221; conditions, although their bodily condition was good.
Giving evidence on the second day of the trial of Rachelle Peel, Mr Peter Bartlett said he had attended at Brookhouse Green Farm, Slaidburn, after the Horses and Ponies Protection Association received information there was a dead horse in a field.
He saw seven living horses in a muddy field that he described as &#8220;bottomless&#8221;. Mr Bartlett set off to walk up the field but had to turn back after sinking up to his knees. He went up the side and when he reached higher ground discovered the carcasses of two horses, one with a rug on and the other without.'

So you are suggesting Mr Bartlett is wrong to say he saw the carcasses of two horses, because they were both buried? one with a rug on? and had somehow worked their way to the surface?
		
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That is only what he claims , where is his evidence in the court or law ?


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Ah, he must be wrong then clearly, and under oath too :eek3: I hope he was taken for contempt of court then.

You do understand the whole point of witnesses? and that presumably he was of previously good character given his position? Or do HAPPA have a vendetta against the Peels too? What a dreadful judge to have used the evidence from witnesses at trial.... 

Essentially there was sufficient evidence for Rachelle to be convicted by a judge on 4 counts of neglect. That is all I need to know, that and my own eyes of the state of the horses, the majority of which you say were fine, like the rest don't matter as far as you are concerned!

And the dogs needed cleaning but the horses just needed some straw on top yes? I don't want to have misconstrued what you have said.


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## Merlod (6 September 2016)

The denial, empty legal threats and complete disregard of the evidence of the 7+ deceased horses and skeletons, seemingly trying to restore a good reputation for the peels smacks of Rachelle. I'm not buying your bull, and neither does it seem even one other person is. You won't be able to leave this behind, you are pure evil - you may have gotten away with it in the courts due to major F ups by the RSPCA but what you did will never be forgotten and definitely not forgiven however hard you try to convince


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ester said:



			Ah, he must be wrong then clearly, and under oath too :eek3: I hope he was taken for contempt of court then. 
Exaggerated the truth , yes he did. 

You do understand the whole point of witnesses? 
Or course I do !
		
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## FreyaBean (6 September 2016)

The peels are all bloody guilty of despicable cruelty, neglect and abuse. Add arrogance on top and you've got 3 people who should never have been allowed near animals after the first account of neglect - the 67 sheep. Sorry, not sorry. If an animal dies, you do the decent thing and dispose of correctly. 
But no. 
Sickening people. And as far as I care, anyone associating with them or defending them, you're just as awful as they are.


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## FreyaBean (6 September 2016)

Merlod said:



			The denial, empty legal threats and complete disregard of the evidence of the 7+ deceased horses and skeletons, seemingly trying to restore a good reputation for the peels smacks of Rachelle. I'm not buying your bull, and neither does it seem even one other person is. You won't be able to leave this behind, you are pure evil - you may have gotten away with it in the courts due to major F ups by the RSPCA but what you did will never be forgotten and definitely not forgiven however hard you try to convince
		
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Well said


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Gosh, hell of a risk to lie in court in his position.

By the way can you sort out quoting properly! you can't keep taking the [/QUOTE] bit off the end!

As usual you aren't going to answer any of the other questions in my post either then about the majority of the horses being ok, meaning you accept some were not?
and that the dogs but not the horses needed cleaning out?


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ester said:



			Gosh, hell of a risk to lie in court in his position.

By the way can you sort out quoting properly! you can't keep taking the
		
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 bit off the end!

As usual you aren't going to answer any of the other questions in my post either then about the majority of the horses being ok, meaning you accept some were not?
and that the dogs but not the horses needed cleaning out?[/QUOTE]

Sorry ester iam trying to answers everybody's questions . I've only  got one pair of hands to type and iam trying to get threw everyone. What was your question please.


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Ok I will ask again, with quotes again, you answered my first question on the post which had 3 quotes from you so you could see which statements I was questioning but only addressed the first one so you obviously read it in part. It is irritating to have to go back through and sort the quotes out again so you can ask the question yet again. 



Bare hoof said:



			Your welcome 
The video is not that clear but yes I could see it needed cleaning out where the dogs were . Compared to the cases I've delt with over the years this was not as dirty as some I have seen , but still yes i agree needed a clean out. From what I could see the dogs condition was fine . Same as the majority of the horses.
		
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You say here that the majority of the horses were in fine condition? Are you therefore accepting that some of the horses were not? In which case which ones?
You state that the dogs needed cleaning out yet earlier stated that wasn't the case for the horses, they were being deep littered in shelters next to their field hence the mud/faeces etc, do you actually mean that? because to me the conditions were pretty comparable.


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## ycbm (6 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			OK, at the risk of breaking forum rules, Bare  Hoof and I have been having a PM exchange. As part of this exchange she claimed to be one person and friend with another, a police woman. Her latest message claims to be an ex police woman and mentions the first person she claimed to be as a third person. Quite honestly, she doesn't sound quite 'on this planet' and I suggest that we all stop engaging with her.
		
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I am not the only person with this experience. Is there really any point in continuing this discussion with this person?


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## Bare hoof (6 September 2016)

ester said:



			Ok I will ask again, with quotes again, you answered my first question on the post which had 3 quotes from you so you could see which statements I was questioning but only addressed the first one so you obviously read it in part. It is irritating to have to go back through and sort the quotes out again so you can ask the question yet again. 



You say here that the majority of the horses were in fine condition? Are you therefore accepting that some of the horses were not? In which case which ones?
You state that the dogs needed cleaning out yet earlier stated that wasn't the case for the horses, they were being deep littered in shelters next to their field hence the mud/faeces etc, do you actually mean that? because to me the conditions were pretty comparable.
		
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Yes the majority of the horses were fine some needed attention IE: needed there feet trimmed and had rain scald( was not severe)  which again needed treatment. The older horses needed More attention. Some of the horses were muddy and needed cleaning , which we were not allowed to do. 
I never said that the horses didn't need cleaning out because they did.
Yes the conditions were not great but did needed seeing to. But I was not there so I can't comment on the actual state it was as iam only going off the photographic evidence and notes that we were given. 
I hope I have answered your question.


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## Wella (6 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			I am not the only person with this experience. Is there really any point in continuing this discussion with this person?
		
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No there isn't but let's just keep bumping it up.


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## ester (6 September 2016)

Sounds like a fair amount of the forum re on the planet though ycbm


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## Pinkvboots (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			The papers are not that accurate if you listen to newspaper articles then you are a long way from the truth. The two horses that were buried ... Let me rephrase that BURIED . You know like a pet , or a loved one in a church yard. If you read Evie's statement on Arabian lines they had died  of sycamore poison. 
Hmmm yes and the 7 carcasses you state were put forward  in court . Were you there at the hearing ?  or was it what the papers have said , which quite frankly is a load of lies.
		
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how did the peels know that the dead horses died of sycamore poisoning?  were the horses ill previous to dying was a vet called ? because if they were just found dead in a field how would anyone know how they died without a post mortem? ? ? ?


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## Dave's Mam (6 September 2016)

This is getting ridiculous.  Bare Hoof, I think it's about time you backed yourself up & actually ANSWERED the questions asked of you.
You claim to have information & identities & facts.  If these are facts, state them.


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## chillipup (6 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			........ But I was not there so I can't comment on the actual state it was as iam only going off the photographic evidence and notes that we were given. 
I hope I have answered your question.
		
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Good god, I thought all your posts were based on you being a witness and actually physically being there!! with Equine Support Services or were you with the Police? If you weren't there how the hell do you know what really happened? You are going on the 'photographic evidence' and the 'notes' you were given? Why not just draw us a bleddy picture, it would have been far more entertaining.


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## chillipup (6 September 2016)

Pinkvboots said:



			how did the peels know that the dead horses died of sycamore poisoning?  were the horses ill previous to dying was a vet called ? because if they were just found dead in a field how would anyone know how they died without a post mortem? ? ? ?
		
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And one of the poor dead sods was still wearing a rug. That just about sums this dreadful case up. Left to die in a filthy midden without anyone given a toss.


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## Wella (7 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:





ossy said:



			I'll say it again then where in what you have said is the evidence to prove us wrong apart from your own speculation. 

Iam not speculating because I was there.
		
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Make your mind up "I was there" "I wasn't there"
		
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## Bare hoof (7 September 2016)

chillipup said:



			Good god, I thought all your posts were based on you being a witness and actually physically being there!! with Equine Support Services or were you with the Police? If you weren't there how the hell do you know what really happened? You are going on the 'photographic evidence' and the 'notes' you were given? Why not just draw us a bleddy picture, it would have been far more entertaining.
		
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I was not at the peels farm , stop twisting things


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## sasquatch (7 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			I have. Question for you all 
How would you feel if the RSPCA came onto your property and took your animals away , and said you have neglected them. Then they go into RSPCA holdings only to suffer evan  more
		
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yes, but how can the RSPCA have gone onto her property and taken 'her' horses if she willingly signed them over when she didn't have too? 
if the horses were in good condition, well looked after and in clean (or at least, they looked like they were cleaned regularly but had yet to be done) stables, they wouldn't have been seized and she wouldn't have had to sign them over surely?
how can someone make such a big mix up and shoot the wrong horses (regardless of how trigger happy they are/aren't) whilst staff seem to be standing around or holding the horse and not pointing out that it's the wrong horse or from the wrong case? are the staff really that inexperienced or uncaring they can't tell one horse apart from the next?
and lastly, why do you keep switching between my/our/I and they/their/Evie and Rachelle?


It feels like Bare hoof should change their name so they have the initials BS.


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## Bare hoof (7 September 2016)

sasquatch said:



			yes, but how can the RSPCA have gone onto her property and taken 'her' horses if she willingly signed them over when she didn't have too? 
if the horses were in good condition, well looked after and in clean (or at least, they looked like they were cleaned regularly but had yet to be done) stables, they wouldn't have been seized and she wouldn't have had to sign them over surely?
how can someone make such a big mix up and shoot the wrong horses (regardless of how trigger happy they are/aren't) whilst staff seem to be standing around or holding the horse and not pointing out that it's the wrong horse or from the wrong case? are the staff really that inexperienced or uncaring they can't tell one horse apart from the next?
and lastly, why do you keep switching between my/our/I and they/their/Evie and Rachelle?


It feels like Bare hoof should change their name so they have the initials BS.
		
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Why do people keep twisting everything and asking pointless questions 
The staff that worked at equine support were useless and didn't have a clue . Paperwork was not in order along with other alarming problems. I don't have the answers to why the animals got seized. The only answers I have are of the case horses that came in to the equine support centre, and what went on there.


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## dominobrown (7 September 2016)

So if thats the case how can you comment on the conditions at the farm (which you stated you knew), the characters of the Peels, which again, you know.
Now you are saying that you looked at some notes.
So evidence in court is wrong, but these notes you have are correct?
Who wrote the magic notes?
Your state you were "very much involved" and now seem to deny that?

Also you style of writing changes a lot!
To answer your question about people on here twisting everything, we aren't. We do however have at least 1 brain cell between us and know bs when we see it!

What would be nice to come from this thread if H&H journalists decide to relook into this case, the Peels now, maybe leading in the case going back to court, and the rspca being invesrigated. I think there are lot of people want to know the truth, and the more you draw attention to it bare hoof, it may actually happen. Maybe you actual want it all to be reinvestigated again?


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## ossy (7 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Why do people keep twisting everything and asking pointless questions 
The staff that worked at equine support were useless and didn't have a clue . Paperwork was not in order along with other alarming problems. I don't have the answers to why the animals got seized. The only answers I have are of the case horses that came in to the equine support centre, and what went on there.
		
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Are you including yourself in that statement as you do claim to be a ex staff member.  
And just to be clear you never went to the farm, you only saw the horses that actually came into the "rescue centre" at the GG centre, the majority of which were ok, but majority does not mean all, you didn't see those that went to happa and what your basing your argument on is notes that you were given, and you have no idea why the horses were seized.


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## sasquatch (7 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			Why do people keep twisting everything and asking pointless questions 
The staff that worked at equine support were useless and didn't have a clue . Paperwork was not in order along with other alarming problems. I don't have the answers to why the animals got seized. The only answers I have are of the case horses that came in to the equine support centre, and what went on there.
		
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okay, but I thought the horses went to the GG Centre, and were shot there, rather than the equine support centre... even if the paperwork was a mess, I would hope that anyone working in equine support would be able to tell one horse apart from the other. I believe you have stated earlier you held Taragun when she was shot, so don't see why you, as someone who has said you're very familiar with Arabians, couldn't realise the other horses were the wrong horses. 

You've made several statements about what condition the farm was in, yet now are claiming you don't know what happened at Rachelle's farm or why Rachelle signed some of the horses over (they weren't all seized) - so why you are claiming that 2 dead horses were dug up when you weren't actually there, never went there and had nothing to do with that, I don't understand? 

No one is twisting anything, they are just trying to get answers to simple questions you don't seem to be able to answer, yet claim conflicting claims of having insider information - quite simply, if the Peels are going to court and you have genuine insider information that would help their case, I don't believe you would be posting here


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## Wella (7 September 2016)

Just out of interest how did they (as in RSPCA) know all their names? When my ex boss had his horses taken away none of the names were known and all changed. I'm asking in general not aimed at bs.


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## FreyaBean (7 September 2016)

Wella - Were the passports handed over with the horses taken away?
They'd have descriptions then at least to know names??
Or perhaps they were told who was who when the were taken?
I have no idea, but very good question - hadn't even thought of that!!


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## Wella (7 September 2016)

It's been bugging me for a while. Would their passports have their stable names in?


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## FreyaBean (7 September 2016)

Possibly, I had my girl's name added to it when I changed ownership.
Has her prefix name and then underneath, aka - stable name.
But that's something I chose to have added - I have no idea if that's a regular thing passport companies do.

If they were passported with AHS, I don't know what their passports are like, as my girl isn't passported with them [breeders messed up registering her, so she can't be registered with AHS unfortunately  )

Faracat, do AHS put stable names in the passports?? x


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## Regandal (7 September 2016)

Surely most of these horses would have been chipped?


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## Meowy Catkin (7 September 2016)

Mine don't, but I never thought to ask the AHS is they are willing to do it an extra.


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## Meowy Catkin (7 September 2016)

Regandal said:



			Surely most of these horses would have been chipped?
		
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Yes they should be chipped and DNA'd.


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## FreyaBean (7 September 2016)

Would RSPCA have bothered with reading chips?
Although, if they knew they were going to dispose of them anyway, would they have bothered?

Passports weren't returned to AHS either were they?


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## Wella (7 September 2016)

We just put stickers on the front of ours. So maybe they had. It just seems that all their names were known. So they must of had passports handed over or someone named them. So how come some were shot and some handed back. Looking on sports horse register they were in Evie's name.
But surely the chip wouldn't be in the stable name?


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## FreyaBean (7 September 2016)

The chip would match up with the passport name, you're right...
Then it seems they would have been informed of their stable names when taken. Or given a list perhaps?
Most cases where horses are removed by RSP'C'A, they're renamed by an officer. But that's usually when they're going to be rehomed or fostered out or adopted.
Inside info? Someone who knew the horses, but was working for RSPCA?

That's a bit of a mystery actually.


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## Damnation (7 September 2016)

Bare hoof said:



			The have a fantastic reputable reputation, which is now been ruined.
		
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They did that thelselves when they allowed their animal care to constitute "Medium length neglect". - As quoted directly from the Judge of the trial.



ycbm said:



			I am not the only person with this experience. Is there really any point in continuing this discussion with this person?
		
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No, but it bumps the post up  



Bare hoof said:



			I was not at the peels farm , stop twisting things
		
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I have refrained from becoming emotional, but OMG I nearly wet myself laughing.

How dare you comment on the below when you weren't even there.

1) What was found at the farm
2) The conditions at the farm
3) The amount of dead animals

Equine Support recieved a number of horses which were shot. Why on earth would they give you full case notes regarding the case? Why on earth would they give you any information other than vital information?




			All the horses were taken to stables approved by the RSPCA. On arrival at the Equine Support Centre in Whenby run by Mr Wilson, Cresh was examined by a vet with seven other horses, four days after arriving.
		
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As another poster pointed out - the papers are very well versed in accurately reporting court cases, the implications if they lie are huge.


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## ester (7 September 2016)

Frankly I am more inclined to believe what was said, in court, under oath by a witness deemed valid than a randomer on the internet who admits they never went to the farm.


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## Damnation (7 September 2016)

ester said:



			Frankly I am more inclined to believe what was said, in court, under oath by a witness deemed valid than a randomer on the internet who admits they never went to the farm.
		
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Exactly my thinking Ester...


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## Regandal (7 September 2016)

I'm just stunned that they got away with it for so long.


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## LadyLuck1977 (7 September 2016)

bump


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## Avonbrook (7 September 2016)

Faracat said:



			Yes they should be chipped and DNA'd.
		
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The first of mine to have required chipping on registration as a foal was born in 2010 but I think it came in during 2009, it was just that my 2009 foal was born in February and was registered before the start date hit.  The older ones have only been chipped as and when they have started competing affiliated or, in the case of EnduranceGB where it is not a requirement, FEI.

I've never asked the AHS to include a stable name in the passport so I don't know on that one.

Like so many of us I am following this with a sick, horrified fascination having also been taken in by the Peel's image - though fortunately not having the agony of knowing that they had, or still have(!), a horse of my breeding.


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## budatiger (7 September 2016)

Rachelle Peel was certainly not backward in her propensity to share stories to all and sundry about the successes of her daughter & horses.  Just look at some of the old Arabian Lines posts.....full blown essays in self-congratulation.  Following that behaviour pastern, if innocent, at the point of horses being seized, would you not expect her to kick up a massive stink, publicise to all and sundry, and generally shout from the roof tops to clear her name?  Wouldn't you expect her to contact owners of loan horses to vouch for her?  Wouldn't you expect her to contact the AHS, WAHO?  I certainly would.  However, there was nothing.  Screams guilty to me.  Just my opinion.


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## Damnation (7 September 2016)

budatiger said:



			Rachelle Peel was certainly not backward in her propensity to share stories to all and sundry about the successes of her daughter & horses.  Just look at some of the old Arabian Lines posts.....full blown essays in self-congratulation.  Following that behaviour pastern, if innocent, at the point of horses being seized, would you not expect her to kick up a massive stink, publicise to all and sundry, and generally shout from the roof tops to clear her name?  Wouldn't you expect her to contact owners of loan horses to vouch for her?  Wouldn't you expect her to contact the AHS, WAHO?  I certainly would.  However, there was nothing.  Screams guilty to me.  Just my opinion.
		
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Breeders and previous owners were falling over themselves to get these horses back yet they were branded as "unsuitable for rehoming" and shot? Very strange.

The RSPCA and various charities try to rehome hundreds of mediocre horses but these well bred and valuable Arabs were unsuitable...


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## be positive (7 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			Breeders and previous owners were falling over themselves to get these horses back yet they were branded as "unsuitable for rehoming" and shot? Very strange.

The RSPCA and various charities try to rehome hundreds of mediocre horses but these well bred and valuable Arabs were unsuitable...
		
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I think by the time people found out the horses had been taken it was too late as most had been shot, the RSPCA were not interested in even trying to communicate with the AHS and I think used the data protection act to "hide behind" rather than reveal what had actually happened, it was not known about the fate of the dead ones until part way through the court case until then I think the people who would have offered homes thought they were still alive, in safe hands and would be rehomed once the case had finished, the rest were kept as had not been signed over, I totally agree that these would have been far easier to find homes for than the numerous mediocre animals they do keep and make such a fuss to get back to health.


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## Frumpoon (7 September 2016)

Bump


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## Dave's Mam (7 September 2016)

Any answers yet, Barehoof?  One minute you were there, then you weren't.  You were part of the Equine Support Service, then their performance was crap.  Make your mind up.

Anyway.


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## Merlod (8 September 2016)

Oh look, Barehoof has dropped out of this thread just like "Evie" abandoned the AL thread after not getting the sympathy and restored "good rep" that they expected. Presumably Rachelle is both anyway as I said previouly the denial, empty legal threats etc smacks of her. She must think the world is blind/stupid. It's not going to happen, there is no getting out of what she's done, however much time will pass.


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## Damnation (8 September 2016)

be positive said:



			I think by the time people found out the horses had been taken it was too late as most had been shot, the RSPCA were not interested in even trying to communicate with the AHS and I think used the data protection act to "hide behind" rather than reveal what had actually happened, it was not known about the fate of the dead ones until part way through the court case until then I think the people who would have offered homes thought they were still alive, in safe hands and would be rehomed once the case had finished, the rest were kept as had not been signed over, I totally agree that these would have been far easier to find homes for than the numerous mediocre animals they do keep and make such a fuss to get back to health.
		
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Of course, you are right regarding people not knowing until after the horses were shot.

It is for me one of the worst aspects of the case - owners, breeders, previous owners all not knowing if their horse is dead, alive, been shot, missing, suffered horrible neglect etc.

I agree that the horses seized were not in horiffic shape, all very easily sorted issues like a foot trim, some hay and some cream. I don't agree with their "star" horses however being in very good condition with all needs catered for whilst there were others in fields grazing along side dead companions or locked in the same pen as perished horses.

I still want answers relating to the 7 dead horses, as submitted in evidence and accepted under oath in a court of law from witnesses ****who actually attended the scene****.

Why did those horses die? Why were they not disposed of in accordance to the law? Who were they?

I would also want to know about the horses who are unaccounted for.


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## LadySam (8 September 2016)

Although there were occasionally swathes of Evie's AL posts copied and pasted here, I'm confident it wasn't Rachelle or Evie.  It was  someone else who was part of the Arabian horse scene and the subject of another infamous horse welfare case, and had a similar experience of the horse community not accepting their ridiculous excuses.  She also refused to accept responsibility for her actions and had reason to empathise with their situation.

She wasn't a very good liar or advocate and obviously found the straightforward questions impossible to answer in a way that would put her or the Peels in a positive light.


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## DD (8 September 2016)

bump


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## Frumpoon (8 September 2016)

Bump


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## dominobrown (8 September 2016)

LadySam said:



			Although there were occasionally swathes of Evie's AL posts copied and pasted here, I'm confident it wasn't Rachelle or Evie.  It was  someone else who was part of the Arabian horse scene and the subject of another infamous horse welfare case, and had a similar experience of the horse community not accepting their ridiculous excuses.  She also refused to accept responsibility for her actions and had reason to empathise with their situation.

She wasn't a very good liar or advocate and obviously found the straightforward questions impossible to answer in a way that would put her or the Peels in a positive light.
		
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Do you think she is lady with a name beginning with D, as identified on AL or someone else (who may or may not be Scottish?). Just wondering if I know them...


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## chillipup (8 September 2016)

Damnation said:



			Of course, you are right regarding people not knowing until after the horses were shot.

It is for me one of the worst aspects of the case - owners, breeders, previous owners all not knowing if their horse is dead, alive, been shot, missing, suffered horrible neglect etc.

I agree that the horses seized were not in horiffic shape, all very easily sorted issues like a foot trim, some hay and some cream. I don't agree with their "star" horses however being in very good condition with all needs catered for whilst there were others in fields grazing along side dead companions or locked in the same pen as perished horses.

I still want answers relating to the 7 dead horses, as submitted in evidence and accepted under oath in a court of law from witnesses ****who actually attended the scene****.

Why did those horses die? Why were they not disposed of in accordance to the law? Who were they?

I would also want to know about the horses who are unaccounted for.
		
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I'm guessing the carcasses of the 7 found dead, were too badly decomposed to establish a cause of death through post mortem examination.

Whether Peel would know, or was even questioned, as to the identity of each of the dead ones, I have no idea. Their bodies probably remained in situ where they fell at the time of death. Whether the offence of having unburied carcasses was included in the RSPCA's prosecution, I know not. If only the public could have access to a transcript of the case heard in the Magistrates' court, I'd be willing to pay for it. Apparently only Crown Court cases are recorded.


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## Wella (8 September 2016)

chillipup said:



			I'm guessing the carcasses of the 7 found dead, were too badly decomposed to establish a cause of death through post mortem examination.

Whether Peel would know, or was even questioned, as to the identity of each of the dead ones, I have no idea. Their bodies probably remained in situ where they fell at the time of death. Whether the offence of having unburied carcasses was included in the RSPCA's prosecution, I know not. If only the public could have access to a transcript of the case heard in the Magistrates' court, I'd be willing to pay for it. Apparently only Crown Court cases are recorded.
		
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Wouldn't they be chipped?


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## chillipup (8 September 2016)

Wella said:



			Wouldn't they be chipped?
		
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Perhaps Wella, but did anyone check? Who knows?


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## LadySam (8 September 2016)

dominobrown said:



			Do you think she is lady with a name beginning with D, as identified on AL or someone else (who may or may not be Scottish?). Just wondering if I know them...
		
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I strongly believe it was the D woman.


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## Frumpoon (9 September 2016)

Well wherever she's gone we can safely say she's not busy mucking out


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## Crackerz (9 September 2016)

Wella said:



			Wouldn't they be chipped?
		
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Depends how old they were i guess


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## Damnation (9 September 2016)

chillipup said:



			I'm guessing the carcasses of the 7 found dead, were too badly decomposed to establish a cause of death through post mortem examination.

Whether Peel would know, or was even questioned, as to the identity of each of the dead ones, I have no idea. Their bodies probably remained in situ where they fell at the time of death. Whether the offence of having unburied carcasses was included in the RSPCA's prosecution, I know not. If only the public could have access to a transcript of the case heard in the Magistrates' court, I'd be willing to pay for it. Apparently only Crown Court cases are recorded.
		
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I would pay too...


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## Wella (9 September 2016)

Frumpoon said:



			Well wherever she's gone we can safely say she's not busy mucking out
		
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Brilliant


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## Medjuel (9 September 2016)

bump for the lost ones


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## DD (9 September 2016)

any news on the lost ones?


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## ossy (9 September 2016)

Downton Dame said:



			any news on the lost ones?
		
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It would appear someone doesn't want to play anymore.  Funny that.


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## Dave's Mam (9 September 2016)

Someone must have put them in the **** pit........


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## Wella (9 September 2016)

Bumpity bump


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## dominobrown (9 September 2016)

I suppose one thing to come from this thread, nearly all of hho agreeing with each other!

Keep bumping this up.
Also if h&h do read this, do you think a journalist couldmfind out what happened?


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## LadySam (10 September 2016)

dominobrown said:



			Also if h&h do read this, do you think a journalist couldmfind out what happened?
		
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Would be nice, but I have a feeling that to get the answers everyone wants, it would take more resources than just a tenacious journalist.


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## Frumpoon (10 September 2016)

Has anybody written to their MP to ask that questions be asked in the house as to why the rspca bungled the prosecution and their dodgy accounting methods, not to mention putting down horses that could have been rehomed


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## Rollin (10 September 2016)

Frumpoon said:



			Has anybody written to their MP to ask that questions be asked in the house as to why the rspca bungled the prosecution and their dodgy accounting methods, not to mention putting down horses that could have been rehomed
		
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If you made an error of thousands of pounds on your tax return, would HMRC say 'there, there very naughty don't do that again?'. If you were guilty of perjury, would the judge say 'that is OK.  Just a mistake'.  Why were Trustees allowed to escape unscathed by Britain's legislature and the Charity Commission - why does it need  a letter to MP's?


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## Frumpoon (10 September 2016)

Because if it is discussed in parliament that would give it the national profile and level of scrutiny it deserves


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## chillipup (10 September 2016)

I believe the District Judge over seeing the Trial, stated that whilst the RSPCAs record keeping wasn't the best in relation to this case, (or something similar) he agreed that there had been no intention to deliberately deceive the court.


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## Frumpoon (10 September 2016)

But what about the putting down of the healthy horses, that is surely a point of accountability...isn't it? I'm sorry I'm not familiar with the intricacies but the overall case really upsets me


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## chillipup (10 September 2016)

Frumpoon said:



			But what about the putting down of the healthy horses, that is surely a point of accountability...isn't it? I'm sorry I'm not familiar with the intricacies but the overall case really upsets me
		
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I think once the horses were signed over to the RSPCA, they then became their legal owners and could do what they wished with them. We don't know why they took this decision other than at the time, their own equine centres were chock-a-block.


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## Amaranta (11 September 2016)

What the hell have I just read?  This barefoot person is seriously justifying the state these horses were in?  She seems to think that 'nailing shoes to living feet' is cruelty but depriving a horse of basic care is not?  Priorities!

I could actually swear a lot here


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## Wella (11 September 2016)

Amaranta said:



			What the hell have I just read?  This barefoot person is seriously justifying the state these horses were in?  She seems to think that 'nailing shoes to living feet' is cruelty but depriving a horse of basic care is not?  Priorities!

I could actually swear a lot here
		
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Please do swear coz she's crazy.


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## Medjuel (12 September 2016)

Bump


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## zaminda (12 September 2016)

Do people think if a petition was started to investigate the RSPCA, they would respond by hounding the person who started it? Having seen some of their tactics used on people, including the stories of them bullying elderly people it makes me wonder if that is the reason no one has started one, me included. I think I might start by contacting my MP, and go from there.


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## ester (12 September 2016)

My colleague is a magistrate so far he is yet to come across a case presented by them which hasn't been targeted at a vulnerable person who was trying to do their best, following vets instructions etc but that the RSPCA felt fell short.


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## Rollin (12 September 2016)

In another case of which I have knowledge, the Chairman of the Bench described the RSPCA behaviour as a Witch Hunt.


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## chillipup (12 September 2016)

zaminda said:



			Do people think if a petition was started to investigate the RSPCA, they would respond by hounding the person who started it? Having seen some of their tactics used on people, including the stories of them bullying elderly people it makes me wonder if that is the reason no one has started one, me included. I think I might start by contacting my MP, and go from there.
		
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The RSPCA would have no interest in 'hounding' any person starting a petition to investigate them, I think they have more things to worry about  They did infact commission their own independent review of their prosecution role, late in 2013. This was carried out by Stephen Wooler CB, (ex-HM Chief Inspector to the Crown Prosecution Service). The Wooler report was issued in Sept. 2014 you can read it in its entirety by googling RSPCA Wooler Report.

Back in Sept. 2015, A Select Committee of MP's was to be set up to examine the RSPCA's role in investigating and prosecuting cases of animal cruelty. There appears to be no updates on this committee actually being formed on the net.

The original thread regarding the RSPCA v Peel case can be read in the Equestrian news forum:-   www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?708789-RSPCA-SHOOTS-11 

The thread regarding the RSPCA being investigated can be found in Equestrian news forum on 22.09.15 started by Achinghips.

I think someone else on the forum tried to start a petition (think it's a post late in the RSPCA shoots 11 horses thread)

Hope this helps zaminda


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## chillipup (12 September 2016)

Rollin said:



			In another case of which I have knowledge, the Chairman of the Bench described the RSPCA behaviour as a Witch Hunt.
		
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Surely that one would have made the press then Rollin? or did it? Which case was it please.


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

ester said:



			My colleague is a magistrate so far he is yet to come across a case presented by them which hasn't been targeted at a vulnerable person who was trying to do their best, following vets instructions etc but that the RSPCA felt fell short.
		
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As a magistrate (I no longer am one, I couldn't agree with the anti man family courts or the new costs that were given even if people could not pay)  I did three RSPCA cases. In the first a local riding club President allowed one horse on his premises to starve to death. Not a vulnerable man at all, an active horse dealer.

 In the second the RSPCA bent over backwards to help a couple with a GSD with digestive issues. When they refused to continue to feed the dog the only thing it could eat, Hills, they tried to get them to sign it over and were forced to seize it. In kennels, fed Hills, it recovered from being a hat rack with no medical treatment. They were as guilty as sin, not vulnerable at all, a working couple.

The third case was puppy farming importing lorry loads of dogs from Ireland. I signed the warrant to stop the van they were following and seize the contents, and I was back in court when it was first heard, but it was so serious it went to Crown.

I'm happy to accept that they sometimes get it wrong, disastrously so in the Peel case. But I'm absolutely certain that the majority of their prosecutions are absolutely correct and not of vulnerable people.

There are some which are of vulnerable people which they can't help. If someone is mistreating an animal but will not sign it over, then the only way for them to take possession of it and retain possession of it is to prosecute the owner. What else can they do - let an animal suffer because the owner is too ill to see how they are mistreating it?


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## chillipup (12 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			As a magistrate........

..........I'm happy to accept that they sometimes get it wrong, disastrously so in the Peel case. But I'm absolutely certain that the majority of their prosecutions are absolutely correct and not of vulnerable people.
		
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My thoughts exactly ycbm, even if I've never been a magistrate.


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## Rollin (12 September 2016)

chillipup said:



			Surely that one would have made the press then Rollin? or did it? Which case was it please.
		
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RSPCA withdrew the day before.


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## Medjuel (13 September 2016)

Bump


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## Wella (13 September 2016)

Bump the list on Arabian lines has got to 65 now.


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## Medjuel (14 September 2016)

Bumping again for the lost ones


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## FreyaBean (14 September 2016)

Bump, let's keep it up the top!


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## Merlod (14 September 2016)

Hope this stays at the top always, and the peels never escape what they did - just like those horses couldnt


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## Frumpoon (14 September 2016)

Bump


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## VikingSong (14 September 2016)

A very tragic case and one that shouldn't ever be forgotten. So I'm bumping the thread for that very reason..


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## Rosepip (14 September 2016)

Up you go...we should never let people forget these vile people


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## Medjuel (15 September 2016)

Morning bump


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## DD (15 September 2016)

the Peels should never be allowed to own any animals after the suffering imposed on those defenseless horses and sheep and dogs. cruel cruel cruel.


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## Wella (15 September 2016)

The list is 65 on AL including one poor mare that they've even admitted to not knowing where it is. If that is not a sign of uncaring hoarders what the hell is. How do you miss place a 17.2 horse??? Don't know how to put photos on here but what a stunning mare. 

Dowland I'm Hello Dolly
17.2 Black Trakehner mare 2008


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## Mr Clovis (16 September 2016)

Cruel and too arrogant to admit they're wrong.


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## DD (16 September 2016)

Mr Clovis said:



			Cruel and too arrogant to admit they're wrong.
		
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^^
this


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## Archangel (16 September 2016)

Mr Clovis said:



			Cruel and too arrogant to admit they're wrong.
		
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They are like a bad penny.  Always turning up.  

Just reading that list on AL.  Heron de la Forge, Taragun... those horses tried their heart out for that family and they ended up being shot far from home in unfamiliar surroundings.   How could you live with yourself?

It *was* the fault of the peels.  You load yourself up with horses, work away all week, don't engage staff to help but leave it all to your ailing and ageing husband and then try and say it isn't your fault?  Why not ask for help?


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## dominobrown (16 September 2016)

Wella- Yeh looked like a stunning horse.
Was believed to be one of the corpses in the barn but was so decomposed was hard to prove. Peels dispute this, however as you said just seemed to have lost it?!


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## DD (16 September 2016)

evening bump


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## Wella (18 September 2016)

Up you go just like the number of horses on the list.


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## Medjuel (19 September 2016)

Bump for the lost ones


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## SatansLittleHelper (20 September 2016)

Sat and read this whole thread....it's truly disgusting that the Peels got away with this for so long...and how in hell did they get any of those animals back??!!
Do they still have them?? Have the RSPCA checked the conditions they are in now??


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## be positive (20 September 2016)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Sat and read this whole thread....it's truly disgusting that the Peels got away with this for so long...and how in hell did they get any of those animals back??!!
Do they still have them?? Have the RSPCA checked the conditions they are in now??
		
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It is disgusting that they got away with it but to answer the first question, as you have missed out some important parts in your reading, they got them back because the RSPCA messed up the prosecution, the second question yes they still have them as far as anybody knows and Evie was entered to compete on one fairly recently.

The final question I don't think the RSPCA would be allowed back on the premises for the foreseeable future considering what went on once the horses were "rescued" so it is unlikely there will be any monitoring.

Hopefully if nothing else they will have learnt that the horses cannot be left in such dreadful conditions, that they need to keep numbers down to a controllable level, that people will be watching and that however hard the Peels try to put it out of their minds, remain in denial, others will NOT forget those poor horses and will continue to try and find out what happened to the missing ones.


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## Medjuel (20 September 2016)

Bump


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## Wella (20 September 2016)

Well they have 14 back and not much land. Here's hoping they can't breed anymore and by keeping this thread bumped up no one sell them anymore


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## YorksG (20 September 2016)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Sat and read this whole thread....it's truly disgusting that the Peels got away with this for so long...and how in hell did they get any of those animals back??!!
Do they still have them?? Have the RSPCA checked the conditions they are in now??
		
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The RSPCA have no right of entry into anyone's property. Whether we agree or not, the Peels were not banned from keeping animals and the conviction was overturned, so legally they are in the same boat as the rest of us. The RSPCA can apply to the magistrates for a warrant to enter, which must be executed by the police, IF they have evidence that there are animals suffering, a failed past prosecution is not admissable as evidence to get a warrant. So I very much doubt that the RSPCA will be welcomed on their property and the magistrates will need solid evidence to grant a warrant. Any organisation which attempts to bill someone for services which they patently did not supply, cannot expect to be welcomed in by the people they tried to fleece. No matter what wrongs the Peels did the RSPCA also behaved dishonestly


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## DD (20 September 2016)

Wella said:



			Well they have 14 back and not much land. Here's hoping they can't breed anymore and by keeping this thread bumped up no one sell them anymore 

Click to expand...

bump


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## Frumpoon (20 September 2016)

65 horses unaccounted for, is that correct???


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## Meowy Catkin (20 September 2016)

Frumpoon said:



			65 horses unaccounted for, is that correct???
		
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No, most of the horses are accounted for, but some are 'missing'. Here's the latest list from AL.




			1. Autumn Dancer 2 - Harry/Harrison horse (sold 2012)
2. Vlaqc Tinwe - Sparky (shot)
3. Amira Obeyd - Amira (returned to MWA/escaped)
4. Templars Mis Alliance - Coco (returned to peel)
5. Templars Orchestral Pearl - Harley (returned to peel)
6. Sirhowy Cyrus - Obi (missing)
7. Bubblegum - Bumble (re homed by happa/escaped)
8. Mysticfold Charming Boy - Piers (died 2010 colic)
9. Templars Magic Pearl 2013 foal (born dead)
10. Fiyah Dominion - Shady (shot)
11. Little Starlight - Delilah (returned to peel)
12. Honest Villian - William (returned to peel)
13. Spark Persepolis (missing)
14. Hadida Pearl - Haps (died pre 2013)
15. Spartan Princess - Diva (shot)
16. Templars Malazaar - Malcolm (missing)
17. Silversun Khoomi - Khoomi (shot)
18. Templars Prince Caspian - Dinky (missing)
19. Templars Milli Vanilli - Milli (returned to peel)
20. Taragun - Taz (shot)
21. Tobago's Ambasador - Buzz (escaped)
22. Last Crescendo - Cresh (shot)
23. Spark Shahrya (missing)
24. Sunlea Darreanna - Tara (died pre 2013 brain tumour)
25. Templars Legz Akimbo - Legz (return to peel)
26. Oakthwaite Shamtar - Shammy (one of the dead bodies)
27. Bradney Anna - Anna (shot)
28. Twist Hoeves Nansy - Nancy (shot)
29. Templars Mystis Shadow/Enigma - Midge (shot)
30. Templars Crie de Coeur - Treacle (missing)
31. Edgevale Against All Odd's - Pip (shot)
32. Heron De La Forge - Heron (shot)
33. Whichways Summer Breeze - Breeze (shot)
34. Phaaraoh - George (shot)
35. Templars Magic Pearl - Mouse (returned to peel)
36. Downlands I'm Hello Dolly - Dolly (even peel claims she is missing)
37. Templars Nimrod - Pepsi (shot)
38. GJK Spotted Senstaion - Yogi/sydney (returned to peel)
39. Magidaa Bint Mamoona - Binty (returned to MWA/escaped)
40. MWA Mudkour - Muds (died pre 2013 suspected ruptured aorta)
41. Indian Silver Moon - Indie (peels claims she returned him to MWA)
42. CAS Rosaroma (returned to owner/escaped)
43. Sahara Sundance - Scarlett (escaped)
44. Holme Park Lennon - Lennon (returned to owner/escaped)
45. Je t'adore - Sia (died pre 2013)
46. Edgevale It's A Miss Justice - Justy (returned to owner/escaped)
47. OSO Harlequin - Moo Moo (returned to peel)
48. Little starlight 2013 foal - Goose (returned to peel)
49. Vladimier H - Joules (returned to peel)
50. Feathers Mcgraw - Feathers (died pre 2013)
51. Zariadne - Zizi - (missing)
52. Star ascendant - Scottie (missing)
53. Vlaqc Tanlanique - Tal (one of the dead bodies)
54. Euphorbia (died pre 2013)
55. Alileo - Leo (missing)
56. Oakmieter Dirty Harry - Harry/AJ (returned to peel)
57. Arieta - Rita (shot)
58. Templars Sea Monkey - Neville (returned to peel)
59. Templars Cultured Pearl - Molly (shot)
60. Templars Chanson d'amour - Quizz (missing)
61. Templars Pearl Hanifeyah - Shrimp (missing)
62. Templars Moonsong - Boots (missing)
63. Templars ? - Moose (missing)
64. Templars Vindaloo - Vinnie (missing)
65. Earlys Rising (died 2012)
66. Eva/Eve (missing)
67. Winston (missing)
68. Vlacq Emerald Theoden - Theo (Died)
69. Ringkay Freddie - Freddie (Missing)
70. Caspian Filly (2005)
71. Shush (re homed by happa)
72. Caspian X Welsh (missing)
73. Willow Annabell Believed sold)
74. Little Miss Pepperpot (Probably Passed away buy poss missing)
75. Ephepe (returned to Aults)
76. Ruby (spirit13/Danielle)
78. Filly foal (2007) (died)
		
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## Frumpoon (20 September 2016)

So that's 20 missing?

This woman is a project manager is she?


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## Wella (21 September 2016)

Bump. And yes supposedly!!!
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rachelle-newnham-2b5a1712
How can someone have two names?


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## YorksG (21 September 2016)

Wella said:



			Bump. And yes supposedly!!!
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rachelle-newnham-2b5a1712
How can someone have two names?
		
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This isn't necessarily sinister at all, some people will use their maiden name for their profession and their married name for non work related stuff. A prime example was a consultant psychiatrist I worked with who qualified prior to marriage, was known as Dr. X but when doing family stuff, she was Mrs Y.
I find it much more concerning that there are so many "escaped" and "missing" horses, I have no idea how that happens!


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## ester (21 September 2016)

Yes people often keep their 'professional name' especially once you have a few years under it, science wise you lose your traceable journal papers otherwise


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## Archangel (21 September 2016)

YorksG said:



			I find it much more concerning that there are so many "escaped" and "missing" horses, I have no idea how that happens!
		
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Indeed.  All those horses and not one says 'sold'. Is it not usual for a stud to pass some of their stock on?

Also... this thread on AL dated 19th November (only 4 months before the neglect came to light) has the quote 

"2013 should be a lot more active than 2012 was (we were quiet because of exams and poor weather)." 

no mention of stephen peel's illness then that allegedly prevented him for caring for upwards of 30 horses all by himself. http://arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=49706

All this only came to light because someone (thank you that someone) reported seeing a dead horse in the field.


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## be positive (21 September 2016)

YorksG said:



			This isn't necessarily sinister at all, some people will use their maiden name for their profession and their married name for non work related stuff. A prime example was a consultant psychiatrist I worked with who qualified prior to marriage, was known as Dr. X but when doing family stuff, she was Mrs Y.
I find it much more concerning that there are so many "escaped" and "missing" horses, I have no idea how that happens!
		
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The "missing" are ones that are unaccounted for, probably dead, the "escaped" on the list are the lucky ones who were returned to their owners, sold on or never actually went to the Peels in the first place.


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## chillipup (21 September 2016)

There are 16 on the list saying 'shot', were they all shot by the RSPCA?  Are the 13 which were returned to Peel, actually owned by her? or could they belong to other people?


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## ester (21 September 2016)

I think the 13 returned all belonged to the peels.


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## chillipup (21 September 2016)

ester said:



			I think the 13 returned all belonged to the peels.
		
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Thanks ester. Anyone know about the 16 shot, by RSPCA or a n other?


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## ester (21 September 2016)

13 were shot by the RSPCA 
Vlaq
shady
khoomi
taragun
cresh
anna (welshie)
nancy
shady
midge
arrieta
pip
heron
breeze

3 by happa
diva
phaaroah (george)
pepsi


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## DD (21 September 2016)

bump


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## Merlod (22 September 2016)

Do you think the "died pre 2013" ones actually died of the reasons the peels stated, or is more likely they just perished in the barns/fields?


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## Wella (22 September 2016)

Merlod said:



			Do you think the "died pre 2013" ones actually died of the reasons the peels stated, or is more likely they just perished in the barns/fields?
		
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My feeling is the latter I'm afraid


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## Wella (26 September 2016)

Bumping in memory of these horses.


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## KittenInTheTree (14 October 2016)

Gone but not forgotten.


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## DD (14 October 2016)

bump


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## Wella (16 October 2016)

Bumping this, winters coming!


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## Dave's Mam (5 August 2017)

This came to my attention again today.  RIP The Lost Ones.


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## Pinkvboots (5 August 2017)

I often think if these poor horses having Arabs myself it's very sad to think so many lovely horses perished at the hands of these people, and then the rspca shooting so many that could have easily been rehomed many as ridden horses criminal


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## Leo Walker (5 August 2017)

It was doing the rounds on one of the FB groups the other day with the newspaper article. I linked it to the AL posts as it is so much worse than the article


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## windand rain (5 August 2017)

The woman won her appeal before it got to court and it would seem the RSPCA could be accused of fraud all so unnecessary just leaves a bad taste all round.  The RSPCA really should be brought back into the realms of assisting and educating and leave these type of prosecutions to the CPS


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## Dave's Mam (5 August 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			It was doing the rounds on one of the FB groups the other day with the newspaper article. I linked it to the AL posts as it is so much worse than the article 

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It was the telly program that reminded me.


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## southerncomfort (5 August 2017)

I was astounded that the case didn't feature on Panorama.  It was a pretty poor bit of journalism to be honest, very disappointing from John Sweeney.  Think we could all point to far more devastating cases than those featured.


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## Rollin (5 August 2017)

southerncomfort said:



			I was astounded that the case didn't feature on Panorama.  It was a pretty poor bit of journalism to be honest, very disappointing from John Sweeney.  Think we could all point to far more devastating cases than those featured.
		
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Agreed.  I know of another disgraceful case.


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## be positive (5 August 2017)

southerncomfort said:



			I was astounded that the case didn't feature on Panorama.  It was a pretty poor bit of journalism to be honest, very disappointing from John Sweeney.  Think we could all point to far more devastating cases than those featured.
		
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It was not the best programme but there was no way that the Peel case could have been looked at as it was not an example of the point they were trying to get across, that the RSPCA is losing it's way, that they often take action against the vulnerable rather than listen, advise and try and come to a sensible solution,  the working sheepdog situation was a good example as they lost in the end and the dogs were returned, the same with the "mad cat lady" she was overwhelmed, more a victim of being too caring, not the overt cruelty that needs to be dealt with swiftly, the cats could have been reduced, she could have been given help to cope rather than them going in and taking them all away, she got some back so the story could be shown to it's conclusion, the same with the dogs. 

The Peel case was totally different, there is no one to interview, the evidence was destroyed/ tainted before it went to court and the outcome was not a good one for most of the "rescued" horses, RP cannot be interviewed because she has obviously got away with serious and long term negligence, no one from the RSPCA could be interviewed as they messed up big time in every way, anyone else involved with the rescue and prosecution seemed to have their own agenda so at best would be careful what they said, at worst would lie. 

I still think of the Peel case and wonder how many were "lost" looking at the list on AL brings up more questions every time, where are they all, they could not be so careless to lose so many to natural causes, yet the list is still incomplete with so many unaccounted for, of the rescued only 1 is known to be safe, Bubblegum was rehomed, that what was a successful stud could have such a dark side is still so shocking I hope it does keep being brought up so something similar never happens again, to lose one now and again is part of keeping animals to lose dozens is incomprehensible when they were still so actively involved at the highest level of showing and the daughter was eventing, those horses were their shop window, the rest were suffering behind the scenes.


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## ester (5 August 2017)

But they implied that they had tried to reduce numbers for her/help etc, even I thought that the route they went down was probably last possibility to resolve the situation if she wouldn't otherwise sign any over.


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## be positive (5 August 2017)

ester said:



			But they implied that they had tried to reduce numbers for her/help etc, even I thought that the route they went down was probably last possibility to resolve the situation if she wouldn't otherwise sign any over.
		
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The cat lady, yes they probably did go in as a last resort but as she got some back I suspect their help was not as generous as it could have been, I think hoarders are the most difficult to deal with and are by nature normally fairly batty in the first place even if their intentions are good, I have no idea how you deal with them but prosecuting is not the answer and not really in the interests of anyone although they do have a charge on her home to pay for their costs.


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## honetpot (5 August 2017)

I think John Sweeney was falling over himself to be seen to be even handed, and only used cases where there was hard evidence and the court cases were over.
  I think the comments from the ex Charity Commissioner were the most worrying and the fact they seem to have done nothing as yet to change. 
  The RSPCA are asking for more powers when than can not even manage themselves properly.


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## Wella (5 August 2017)

Brilliantly put Be Positive.


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## Dave's Mam (23 July 2018)

I reread this thread today, reminded of it by the recent case.

Was anything else ever discovered?

*The Lost Ones*


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## Frumpoon (21 September 2020)

I saw an advert on Facebook today for the rspca which reminded me of this thread


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## scruffyponies (21 September 2020)

Who prosecutes the RSPCA?


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## Goldenstar (21 September 2020)

The state 
and any one with the will and deep enough pockets to stage a private prosecution.


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## Frumpoon (21 September 2020)

The CPS?


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## honetpot (21 September 2020)

They would do anything to keep it out of court. A friend of a friend had to pay court costs, to the RSPCA. When RSPCA returned the animals in the case they threatened to sue over their condition they were returned in, and the RSPCA waived their costs, which was a substantial amount of money.  
 I presume only the owners could claim costs for loss of property, not really that much money involved, so would pay them off with a NDA so it didn't get into the press? How many people would have the funds to fight the RSPCA outside a small claims court, our neighbours boundary dispute has cost one side £40K.


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## scruffyponies (21 September 2020)

Not forgetting the well known tactics that the RSPCA use to ruin any vet or lawyer who speaks up against them.


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## Frumpoon (21 September 2020)

scruffyponies said:



			Not forgetting the well known tactics that the RSPCA use to ruin any vet or lawyer who speaks up against them.
		
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Really??? What is this???


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## sharni (21 September 2020)

does anyone know if the Peels and their daughter still have horses and if so what state they are in ?


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## Frumpoon (21 September 2020)

sharni said:



			does anyone know if the Peels and their daughter still have horses and if so what state they are in ?
		
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I see the mother is no longer on LinkedIn


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## JoannaC (21 September 2020)

sharni said:



			does anyone know if the Peels and their daughter still have horses and if so what state they are in ?
		
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Pretty sure the daughter still has horses but not heard anything about them for a long time


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