# Putting Bicarbonate of soda in your horses water??!!



## HarwoodFarm (27 May 2012)

Can anyone shed any light on this for me please?? 
I have tried to research this to see what benefits it has?? 
A friends horse is having this in his water to help balance the gut? something to do with producing too much protein? how does this help?? Also the horse is sharing a field with others so would this affect the other horses as they do not need any help? confussed any help would be good.


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## Zuzzie (27 May 2012)

I have never heard of this but I would be very careful and check with your vet.  Years ago my ex-mother in law used to work in a restaurant where they cooked vegetables in boiling water with bicarbonate of soda in order to retain the green colour of the veg.  However, it also destroys vitamins and other nutrients in the food.  You can google to check this is true.  Just be careful.


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## alsiola (27 May 2012)

It is OK as long as there is always fresh water available as well.  It has been shown that if you provide a horse with free choice of water, saltwater, lo-salt water and bicarbonate water then they will choose to drink the one they require.  It is sometimes done to help with mild fluid losses, or where IV fluid administration is not possible.


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## Missmac (28 May 2012)

Funnily enough i was talking about this with a podiatrist today. He recommended i try is to help my fatty lose weight and preventing laminitis. It has something to do with neutralising the excess acids from the grass. I cant remember all that he said. Had a very long and stressful couple of days and the information just didnt sink in unfortunatelly

Not much help sorry!!


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## HarwoodFarm (28 May 2012)

Thanks everyone for your replies, I think from what everyone is saying it was naughty for it to be put in the water for all the horses when only 1 needs it.  We are going to chat to the vet tomorrow so If I get any good info from them I'll post it up. Thanks ever so much.


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## amandap (28 May 2012)

alsiola said:



			It is OK as long as there is always fresh water available as well.  It has been shown that if you provide a horse with free choice of water, saltwater, lo-salt water and bicarbonate water then they will choose to drink the one they require.  It is sometimes done to help with mild fluid losses, or where IV fluid administration is not possible.
		
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I'm very interested in this alsiola I don't suppose you have a link or reference you have time to find?

My laminitic and some others of my horses are on long term soaked hay and I've been wondering about their potassium status for a while now. The above is something I may consider implementing.


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## alsiola (28 May 2012)

amandap said:



			I'm very interested in this alsiola I don't suppose you have a link or reference you have time to find?

My laminitic and some others of my horses are on long term soaked hay and I've been wondering about their potassium status for a while now. The above is something I may consider implementing.
		
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I will have a look and see if I can find a reference but it was something I first heard on a medicine course rather than read somewhere.  From memory it was 4oz. of each in 10 litres of water but I will check my notes.  The few times I have tried it the horses have resolutely ignored all but the fresh water so I would be interested to know if you have different results.


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## amandap (28 May 2012)

alsiola said:



			I will have a look and see if I can find a reference but it was something I first heard on a medicine course rather than read somewhere.  From memory it was 4oz. of each in 10 litres of water but I will check my notes.  The few times I have tried it the horses have resolutely ignored all but the fresh water so I would be interested to know if you have different results.
		
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Oh thanks. I'll have to give it a go now. If you cant find it I'll try the amounts you recall and let you know.
Tbh, I am expecting they will ignore anything than the plain water, I (wrongly) assumed the horses actually drank from the other buckets.


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## paddy555 (28 May 2012)

I have been feeding (in feed) about 25/28g per day (575kg) for the last 2 weeks as an experiment. (that is probably a heaped teaspoon) a Tesco 200 g tub lasts just over a week. 

 The horse has become very laid back, calm, co-operative. He wasn't difficult before but now he just oozes contentment, both ridden, in the stable and just wandering around . He is happier being groomed.
 The one thing that I did not expect, but I do like, is that he moves so nicely over stones ridden (he is barefoot) There was a noticable difference. I stopped bicarb for a couple of days and his feet went back. Started again and there was a difference. 
Amanda, I have pm'd you this in a bit more detail on phoenix.


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## Zuzan (28 May 2012)

If you are already feeding salt (NaCl) would this make the feeding of bicarb (NaHCO3) pointless as the buffering is caused by the upping of Na ions in the blood .. ???


MTA think I have answered my own question.. the Cl in salt can be used to create stomach acid .. so if acidosis is the problem then Bicarb is a better source of Na


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## ashlingm (29 May 2012)

I thought bicarb was used in humans when they had heartburn as it neutralises the stomach acid but it also makes you do a few big burps after (it did for me anyway!), would this excess gas not possibly cause colic in horses?

(This, to me, sounds like a dumb question... but just thought I'd ask anyway!)


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## amandap (29 May 2012)

ashlingm said:



			I thought bicarb was used in humans when they had heartburn as it neutralises the stomach acid but it also makes you do a few big burps after (it did for me anyway!), would this excess gas not possibly cause colic in horses?

(This, to me, sounds like a dumb question... but just thought I'd ask anyway!)
		
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I think it's a very sensible question actually. I don't know myself. 

I couldn't wait and put out three buckets (there is also a self filling trough) one plain water and one with low salt and another salt at above dilutions. This morning two buckets empty but knocked over. The plain water was still standing and nearly empty so I have no idea if any of the salt or potassium water was drunk.  I'll have to fix the buckets somehow. I didn't have any bicarb in to try.


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## applecart14 (29 May 2012)

Info I have gleaned from google searches.  i've definetely heard of baking soda being used before which is the same thing.  Bicarbonate soda is thought to improve horse performance by delaying the onset of fatigue through the buffering effect on lactate accumulation.

Some trainers will give their horses a large amount-- sometimes up to a pound-- of bicarbonate of soda before a race via a stomach tube. This started in Australia, where human runners would drink bicarbonate of soda before a race, and was adapted for use on racehorses. What do they hope this will accomplish? It will act as a buffer in the blood and keep it from getting to acidic. This reduces fatigue, giving the horse, or person, more endurance. However, tests have shown that this actually does nothing to improve endurance or speed, and it's now banned worldwide. 

Apparently baking soda/bicarb is used worldwide.  Here is a link to a forum discussing pros and cons of this substance.  http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172745


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## paddy555 (29 May 2012)

that's a very good link applecart. Need to read it in detail later. I may cut back on the salt. 

With mine it isn't causing a gas problem. I think though that may be dependent on the quantity you feed. I am trying to get it to the lowest possible quantity. 

I also don't know if all bicarb is the same. I expected it to fizz like Alka selter and dissolved it first to get the gas off except there was almost none. He doesn't appear to have any gut gasiness of consequence. Poos are quite normal and haven't changed but possibly I have just kept the quantities low. 

I did read about the racehorse performance thing but I haven't done if for performance. Just for his comfort and also to see if it had any effect on horses that become LGL on grass.

This morning we have been grooming each other pretty hard. I have really been digging my fingers in. He was not keen on that before.


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## amandap (29 May 2012)

Yes, great link applecart thank you.

I suppose it is going to be down to trial and error and depend on the individual horse. Looking very positive for your horse though paddy555. Can't beat a good morning mutual groom. 

I think the difference is in baking soda and baking powder. I think baking powder contains baking soda.

Found this. Baking powder contains other stuff so you want baking soda, which is pure sodium bicarb.
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/foodchemistry/f/blbaking.htm


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## paddy555 (29 May 2012)

amandap said:



			Yes, great link applecart thank you.



I think the difference is in baking soda and baking powder. I think baking powder contains baking soda.

Found this. Baking powder contains other stuff so you want baking soda, which is pure sodium bicarb.
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/foodchemistry/f/blbaking.htm

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not being great in the kitchen department I didn't realise until I was looking on the shelves that there is baking soda and bicarb of soda. I used bicarb which just appears to be sodium bicarbonate. There were several other items in baking powder.


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## alsiola (29 May 2012)

Zuzan said:



			If you are already feeding salt (NaCl) would this make the feeding of bicarb (NaHCO3) pointless as the buffering is caused by the upping of Na ions in the blood .. ???
		
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The buffering is produced by bicarbonate ions.  When in solution NaHCO3 will dissociate to Na+ and HCO3-,

NaHCO3 ----> Na+  +   HCO3-

There is one key to understanding acid-base balance, which is the following chemical equation:

H+   +   HCO3-   <----->   H2O  +   CO2

This system is in equilibrium, meaning that all of the molecules on both sides of the equation are present, but the relative amounts can vary.  If we add bicarbonate ions (HCO3-), then this will increase the amount of molecules on the left hand side of the equation.  The equilibrium will shift to correct this, i.e. H+ ions will react with HCO3- ions to produce water and carbon dioxide.  This reduction in H+ ions is equivalent to an increase in pH.

Bicarbonate can also reduce pH by absorbing hydroxide (OH-) ions to become H2CO4--.  A substance that can accept both H+ and OH- ions will act as a buffer.




			I thought bicarb was used in humans when they had heartburn as it neutralises the stomach acid but it also makes you do a few big burps after (it did for me anyway!), would this excess gas not possibly cause colic in horses?
		
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You're right, it will produce water and carbon dioxide.  Not really a problem though, horses are pretty good at getting rid of gas.


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## alsiola (29 May 2012)

A physiological approach to fluid and electrolyte therapy in the horse
R. J. ROSE
Equine Veterinary Journal
Volume 13, Issue 1, pages 7&#8211;14, January 1981


Review of oral rehydration solutions for horses with diarrhoea
P. ECKE, DR HODGSON, RJ ROSE
Australian Veterinary Journal
Volume 75, Issue 6, pages 417&#8211;420, June 1997


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