# Horse & Trailer weight



## RedVendetta (15 September 2008)

My OH wants to take me to shows with my trailer, a 2002 Ifor Williams HB505 (takes up to 2 x 16.2). He passed his test after the 1997 law of taking a test but has spoken to the DVLA and they have said he can pull the trailer so long as it doesnt weigh a total weight of more than 3.5t.
My horse weighs about 600kg max, but how much does my trailer weigh? And does this sound correct? We only ever take my horse, never 2 horses.


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## wench (15 September 2008)

wont work i'm afraid. the car+trailer+contents have to be below 3.5t, which that wont be


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## Baileyhoss (15 September 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
the DVLA and they have said he can pull the trailer so long as it doesnt weigh a total weight of more than 3.5t. 

[/ QUOTE ]

...... and the trailer in question weighs no more than 750kg.

Your OH can not legally tow your horsebox without sitting the test.

Edited to say your IW505 will weigh 1170kg empty.


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## Libbyn1982 (15 September 2008)

I think it is too heavy as well. Looked into this when we had trailer and I could have driven it empty but not with horsey in back. BTW - were/are you on Dean Valley?


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## FigJam (15 September 2008)

No way I'm afraid.  The DVLA website sates that category B entitled drivers (that's a normal license after 1997, pre-1997 drivers have B+E entitlement) can drive;

_Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg having not more than eight passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg.

OR

Combinations of towing vehicles in category B and a trailer, where the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle_ 

So you need;

- A trailer with MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) LESS THAN your car's kerb weight
- A combination of car MAM + trailer MAM LESS THAN 3.5t.

I have the below set up which is just within these restrictions and tows my 15.2 LW cob perfectly safely;

Car kerb weight: 1500kg
Car MAM: 2035kg
Trailer MAM: 1450kg (downrated IW HB401 from 1600kg, this still leave 680kg payload, plenty for my horse)

So trailer MAM is less than car kerb weight and the two MAM do not exceed 3.5t

It's really tricky to get the right balance of heavy enough tow vehicle/enough trailer payload, but is do-able.

See here for Ifor williams picture guide to the above waffle!

Ifor Williams


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## RedVendetta (15 September 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is too heavy as well. Looked into this when we had trailer and I could have driven it empty but not with horsey in back. BTW - were/are you on Dean Valley? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Will PM you

I thought it was all too heavy, and I keep telling him he has to take his test, but like I say he spoke to the DVLA today and seems adament.


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## RedVendetta (15 September 2008)

Thank you Figjam, very useful info


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## RedVendetta (15 September 2008)

The car is a BMW 318i ...... going to have another look into this. My dad has continually told me either me or OH needs to take the trailer test in order to tow, and I think he's right! Thanks guys x


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## Sooty (15 September 2008)

Yes he is, and you would be better with more weight in the tow car. I cannot believe you could safely tow that trailer with a horse in it with such a small car.


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## RedVendetta (15 September 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Yes he is, and you would be better with more weight in the tow car. I cannot believe you could safely tow that trailer with a horse in it with such a small car. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, and please understand that I am completely ignorant when it comes to pulling trailers, so we will NOT be taking the horse anywhere with this vehicle until we have sorted everything - until 8 months ago I had a 3.5t horse box which I drove myself, and at the moment my Dad or my friend take me to shows, in the trailer, both pull the trailer with very suitable 4x4 vehicles.


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## Baileyhoss (15 September 2008)

"Trailer MAM: 1450kg (downrated IW HB401 from 1600kg, this still leave 680kg payload, plenty for my horse)"


sorry, can you explain where this figure comes from?


Do you really think that all the people who have spent hundreds of pounds taking the tests did so unncecessarily?


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## Baileyhoss (15 September 2008)

Red vendetta - even with a trailer test the BMW can only legally tow 1400kg, so unless you have a 200kg shitland, then I'm afraid your also going to need a bigger car.

F x


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## RedVendetta (15 September 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Red vendetta - even with a trailer test the BMW can only legally tow 1400kg, so unless you have a 200kg shitland, then I'm afraid your also going to need a bigger car.

F x 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the info - can you tell me where I can find this info so I can prove to my OH, (who now seems to think the word of some randomer at the DVLA is final!) that this cannot be done!


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## star (15 September 2008)

the towing weight for your BMW will be in the handbook and probably on a plate either under the bonnet or on the inside panel of one of the front doors.  the car is simply not designed to tow more than 1400kg.  an empty Ifor Williams 505 is about a tonne, so leaves 400kg for the horse - that's a very small horse!

that is aside from the facts that have already been posted above about the MAM's of car and trailer.  i have just done my trailer test - believe me, i wouldn't have spent £650 and lots of time on doing it if there was a way round it.  the absolute only way round it is to buy a single trailer, but even then it needs some careful maths to stick within the law.  and forgetting about the law altogether, just because a towing combination is legal doesn't make it safe and having seen a friend nearly have a very nasty accident trying to tow a 450kg pony in a 505 with a BMW i certainly wouldn't be trying that in a hurry.


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## Horsemad12 (15 September 2008)

The new IW unladen weight is: 920kg, I have the old 505 and I think it is 950kg.  You must not exceed the Manufacturers rec towing capacity, so in theory if your car can tow 1400kg then you can put a horse ( and nothing else) weighing up to 450kg.

Bit a close to the bone.  The rec towing varies from car to car and you cannot just tell by looking at the size of the car.  The new Mondeo can tow 2000kg.

I would not take the risk of towing without passing the test personally.


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## RedVendetta (15 September 2008)

Ive just managed to persuade him via the info Ive got on here that it CANNOT be done, so thanks guys!!

He's now banging on about buying a 4x4 and taking his test - very nice of him but we're skint so I dont see that happening!

Will have to put up with my grumpy old dad!!


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## Baileyhoss (15 September 2008)

I just googled the car and it came up with the towing capacity.  DVLA website will also tell you about the legalities of it, as will towsure website.  If you explained to the DVLA the weights of the car and trailer and what you planned towing, I am sure their advice would be different.

F x


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## FigJam (15 September 2008)

Baileyhoss;

The Ifor Williams HB401 comes with a chassis plate stating it's MAM is 1600kg.  Having spoken to Ifor Williams direct, they confirmed that any of their trailers can be downrated to any value you want, as long as it is between the range listed on the coupling head.  For the HB401 this is 1100kg-2000kg. (This will be different for HB505 and HB510)

Obviously, you need enough payload for what you want to transport.  The HB401 weighs 770kg unladen, so 1450kg (new plate provided by IW HQ, swapped by authorised IW dealer, old plate returned to IW HQ) minus 770kg unladen weight leaves 680kg payload the trailer can carry.

I hope that clears up your confusion.


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## Baileyhoss (16 September 2008)

That's very interesting. - Thanks!


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