# Kauto



## JJones (17 December 2014)

Sorry if I've missed a thread already but what's this jabbing all about?!
Doesn't look nice at all. 
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/equestrian/30516647


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## southerncomfort (17 December 2014)

It doesn't make great viewing does it?    I saw a clip of them on Breakfast this morning and it was 'kick kick, jab jab'.


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## Dusty85 (17 December 2014)

Oh dear. Poor horse. He deserves better than that. 

My opinion of her has just got even lower 


(ETA: I appreciate easy for me to say as I'm sat here at my laptop....)


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## MasterBenedict (17 December 2014)

Just watched this with the sound off....  What the hell is she doing?! I may not be a decent rider by any standards but if I saw a video of me riding in this manner I would be ashamed....poor boy.


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## JJones (17 December 2014)

I wonder if she knew she was being filmed because surely no one in their right mind would do an interview with that horrendous riding being shown at the same time?!


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## Dusty85 (17 December 2014)

Like the way she blamed him too for having stage fright, when actually he was just probably thinking "what the hell do you want me to do?!?'


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## bakewell (17 December 2014)

Ooooof. Brings back memories of riding school group classes!


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## hihosilver (17 December 2014)

oh dear she must be so mortified when she sees this back! I hope someone else gets him to train after this poor boy x


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## el_Snowflakes (17 December 2014)

Jeezo no top rider here but if I rode like that in my lessons my instructor would have a fit! &#128553;

Saw vids of him doing dressage before and I thought he looked great. His back end looks very strange......


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## bakewell (17 December 2014)

el_Snowflakes said:



			Jeezo no top rider here but if I rode like that in my lessons my instructor would have a fit! &#55357;&#56873;
		
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Never mind the instructor, I'd be desperately looking for a neck strap in anticipation of being forcibly dismounted.


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## Cortez (17 December 2014)

What on earth was that? Can she not ride at all?


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## PuzzlePiece (17 December 2014)

Shocked by that video. Not sure what to say...


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## Iwantakitten (17 December 2014)

I'm no "top rider" but surely even the untrained eye can see how awful that looked. Poor horse


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## JCW (17 December 2014)

what was she actually trying to achieve/get the poor horse to do? Sorry for my ignorance but my knowledge of dressage is limited.  I have never seen anyone ride like that.


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## Casey76 (17 December 2014)

Holy moly what on earth was she doing with her hands?


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## bakewell (17 December 2014)

A hand up, and explanation by the rider over the microphone ("horse does not feel happy" etc) and an exit would have been far more elegant (and tbh educational) to watch.


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## Burnttoast (17 December 2014)

Sad what the pressure of audience expectations will make many riders do. (I'm not exempt from this, though find that refraining from riding in public much does help  )


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## Red-1 (17 December 2014)

Well that was not pretty to watch.


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## Chestnut horse (17 December 2014)

Very sad - this beautiful horse looks like he is completely shutting down, doesn't even know where he is placing his feet. Maybe he is just not suited to dressage, or he has been pushed to fast to quickly and just can't cope with what is being asked of him. The riding is really dreadful, and I would think that the rider went into pure panic as the horse really was out of it, she should have stopped, taken a bow and left the ring it would have been much more dignified than that awful show of beginner kicking and sawing on his mouth. He is supposed to give another show tonight, it would be better to just rest him on this evidence.


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## charlie76 (17 December 2014)

Put this on the other thread
I may be wrong but I reckon they doped him as they thought he would be sharp, the sweat and the shutting down is typical of a horse that's had a bit of sedaline. I have ridden one having had some and that's exactly what happened, its like the lights suddenly go off!


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## L&M (17 December 2014)

Sad but I do agree with Charlie76 - I am sure I heard her being interviewed recently and she said she was worried how he would cope with the 'occasion'&#8230;.does make you wonder if she doped him to counter balance any 'excitement', which then backfired.


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## minkymoo (17 December 2014)

I watched the first bit of the video which wasn't close up and thought 'that's ok - typical of people having a pop' then when it zoomed in a bit & I saw what she was doing with her hands and legs I have to admit I was quite shocked. She looks like the young girl who lives down the road from me when she rides, all jabby with her hands & constantly nagging with her legs. It isn't pretty and you've got to feel sorry for the poor boy  wtf is she asking him to do? It's a shame he didn't go to Charlotte DJ really. Or Carl H.


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## el_Snowflakes (17 December 2014)

minkymoo said:



			It's a shame he didn't go to Charlotte DJ really. Or Carl H.
		
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or even just to a happy hacking/riding club home


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## Exploding Chestnuts (17 December 2014)

el_Snowflakes said:



			or even just to a happy hacking/riding club home 

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I don t think he would make  a happy hacker , lol


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## sunleychops (17 December 2014)

Bonkers2 said:



			I don t think he would make  a happy hacker , lol
		
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Turn him away and I bet he would mellow out untold amounts. He has gone from the pressure of racing to a short break and now she says she is taking it easy with him but I bet there is plenty of pressure so that all the hype when this first happened doesn't blow up in their face


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## TelH (17 December 2014)

Poor lad did look like he was conked out on sedalin  It will be interesting to see what he is like at Kempton next week.


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## el_Snowflakes (17 December 2014)

Bonkers2 said:



			I don t think he would make  a happy hacker , lol
		
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why?
Many successful ex racehorses do.


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## Doris68 (17 December 2014)

I think this is a PR exercise that has gone very badly wrong.  The horse would have been much happier going to a hunting home rather than to go to this rider.


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## limestonelil (17 December 2014)

Just watched first bit of clip - what a sad carry on. Poor Kauto looked out of it in a world of his own.


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## Amymay (17 December 2014)

What an awful fuss.


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## suffolkmare (17 December 2014)

I'm confused as she can't possibly ride like that normally, surely? I agree the horse may have had "something" to calm him, maybe he can't handle the indoor arena (lights?). I also think he's been rushed a bit, and it was laughable that the write up on OP's link said he would start to compete next year but wouldn't be an Olympic prospect! When someone learns to swim, who thinks they will actually be on the Olympic team in no time!


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## suffolkmare (17 December 2014)

Just found this...it's no wonder that Charlotte got such poor treatment in SPOTY (the silly comparison to Darcy Bussell instead of lauding her achievements), the BBC don't even know the name of the show they've put on red button! Not a clue!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/horse-racing/30515462


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## respectedpony driver (18 December 2014)

Totally disgusted with this 'rider'The horse was not happy at all.She should have dismounted and led him out.Typical snotty rider.This wonderful horse deserves better than this.


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## NZJenny (18 December 2014)

I thought the "Olympic" thing was surely a wind up?  

A great display of how not to do it.


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## Elbie (18 December 2014)

I just watched that thinking I have NO idea what she is trying to achieve with her hands


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## ozpoz (18 December 2014)

Sad to see a great, great horse so out of his element. He owes his owner nothing...


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## Princess Rosie (18 December 2014)

Absolutely awful to watch, she should be ashamed of herself.  Poor horse, looked rushed into preparation and he was under the influence of something! Love the bit in her interview where she says something along the lines of "the most important thing is the horse is happy and settled".


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## Archangel (18 December 2014)

I'm confused - is KS out competing and these are just exhibition displays or is he still to come out?  It seems a long time since he started his 'dressage career' and I've missed seeing photos of him competing.


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## Clodagh (18 December 2014)

Archangel said:



			I'm confused - is KS out competing and these are just exhibition displays or is he still to come out?  It seems a long time since he started his 'dressage career' and I've missed seeing photos of him competing.
		
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Neptune Collenges has already been out and done some, hasn't he, so you have a point there. I didn't have a problem with him going there for reschooling  but I don't know that that exhibition did racehorses any favours.


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## Jazzy B (18 December 2014)

What a mess?  Am I missing something but why are they throwing him in at the deepend and seeing how he copes??


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## DJ (18 December 2014)

"we thought he might get a bit lit up in there so we gave him a lot of work" - Read as "we sedated him to keep some level of control as we know he isn`t ready but thought we`d push him too far anyway for the publicity" ... 

"And its the crowds being up high and so close", yes because in racing there is no noise, crowds or grandstands **rolls eyes**

"Most horses have been doing this for 8 - 10 years and they build up gradually to an arena like that" ... So why put him through this at such at early point in his training then ?? 

"The main thing is that the horse is happy and relaxed" ... wow really? reeeeeaaallly? are we looking at the same horse? 

"If one day he goes to a competition, he goes to a competition, there`ll be no pressure from our side anyway it about having a good time" ... you call THAT no pressure and having a good time ... wow, stunned!!! 


I agree with others she should have ridden him out of the arena with an explanation that he just wasn`t ready ... all the kicking, and jabbing and hand waving to get her whip to make contact with him just saddens me so much ... No need


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## stormox (18 December 2014)

I thought it was awful- a jockey is limited to the number of times he is allowed to hit the horse,  and if they don't adhere to the rules are cautioned or face a ban...  LC  should be severely cautioned for her riding.  Poor Kauto looked so unhappy, I bet he envies his old adversary Denman retiring to go team chasing.


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## bakewell (18 December 2014)

stormox said:



			I thought it was awful- a jockey is limited to the number of times he is allowed to hit the horse,  and if they don't adhere to the rules are cautioned or face a ban...  LC  should be severely cautioned for her riding.  Poor Kauto looked so unhappy, I bet he envies his old adversary Denman retiring to go team chasing.
		
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Weeeeell. I think having that video out there is actually going to do more damage. Not as slick/ legally aggressive a publicity machine as Ben Mahers.
If I were her I would issue a public apology/ explanation/ regret I did not retire sooner. Learning from the aforementioned.


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## 3OldPonies (18 December 2014)

I had to stop watching.  I've never seen such a display of bad riding in front of an audience.  I've not even seen that amount of jabbing, kicking, whip waving in a beginners lesson at a riding school.  It looked like she was asking him to do stuff he'd never done before and without having a clue herself what she wanted.  Unbelievable.  She would have been much better off putting her hand up and leaving the arena rather than subjecting him to that abuse. Poor Kauto.


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## Kadastorm (18 December 2014)

wow, my novicey loaner rides better than that on a pony that isn't easy to ride. The constant jabbing and whipping was awful and I feel terribly sorry for the poor horse who should have been retired to do riding club activities. I hope LC and the owners are ashamed.


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## Maesfen (18 December 2014)

chrisritch said:



			Turn him away and I bet he would mellow out untold amounts. He has gone from the pressure of racing to a short break and now she says she is taking it easy with him but I bet there is plenty of pressure so that all the hype when this first happened doesn't blow up in their face
		
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The owner is known to be a pushy type with absolutely no empathy for his horse at all otherwise he would have left him where he belonged and always flourished, back at PN's.

Greed, pure greed and he couldn't have picked a worse rider for him.


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## pip6 (18 December 2014)

Horrible to watch. Agree he looks doped. Get him a kind rider FFS.


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## Maesfen (18 December 2014)

If only the owner would listen and agree.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Give-Kauto-Star-back-to-Clifford-Baker/992962410719016


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## SpringArising (18 December 2014)

My God; that was bloody awful.

What the heck was she trying to achieve there? Poor horse didn't know whether he was coming or going. 

Something you'd expect to see at PC.


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## stormox (18 December 2014)

I think the instructors would be red in the face with shouting if this was at a PC rally.


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## bonny (18 December 2014)

Just watched the video, it's even worse than I imagined it would be. I was one of the people who thought he should stay at Paul Nicholls and was very much against kauto moving home to do dressage and I hate seeing the chaser of a lifetime reduced to giving displays like this. For what ?


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## alidav (18 December 2014)

I read that he was due a second performance, did that happen?

Could not believe the riding.  If that was Keith Lemon on a horse for a charity fundraiser it would 1) have got a laugh 2) got him condemned for abusing a horse as a form of entertainment.  What's the difference here?  Her riding was appauling and she shouldn't have put Kauto through that.  As it is a top rider does it and people are actually defending her!!!


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## MrsElle (18 December 2014)

As a completely abysmal rider myself I don't often feel qualified to comment on other riders. 

However, even I can see that that was an absolutely shocking example of horsemanship, that poor poor horse


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## lottiepony (18 December 2014)

My heart wept for him poor poor horse


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## Kungfoo-hamster (18 December 2014)

I was there on Tuesday night and it was even worse to witness first hand,  whatever the reasons for the horse shutting down like that, it was horrible to witness


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## TheLankyRider (18 December 2014)

Really didn't expect it to be this bad when I first read about it. Definitely agree with the comments that it looks like they have given him something in the hope of calming him a little which has back fired. Think the rider has just totally panicked and lost all common sense probably due to the pressure of the whole situation. I don't know why anybody else involved didn't suggest they called it a day as soon as it became apparent that the horse was totally shut down and that the riders response was to try and 'drive' him through it. So sad to see, absolutely loved Kauto Star when he was racing. I think he has an injury which means he cannot go into a career which involves jumping which is shame since he obviously loves it


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## LittleRooketRider (18 December 2014)

Just awful!!

I also thought the last rider in the freestyle Daniella H(something or other) on a horse I think was called somethinorother..NOP.  was rather rough with her hands outside of the arena and then througout her test, completing it with an almighty haul to hault. I also thought the horse was seriouly overbent throughout.


Out of interest why did Kauto go into dressage (with an event rider), why not hunting or team chasing or showjumping or low level eventing etc?

Especially as over the last coupe of years it has only euslted in a couple of disappointing displays?


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## Elf On A Shelf (18 December 2014)

I think what people forget is that while yes he has performed infront of crowds numbering tens of thousands you only feel the real pressure of the people walking round the paddock. An easy jaunt where you play follow my leader. An on course parade is lead down and then canteres back - again follow my leader straight line stuff. But by this point you are on the course. Not close enough for the crowds to be an issue. When racing it's like being out in the wilderness! You get the home straight - a staight line and depending on which course you are at how many jumps are in front of you to keep you going. 

Olympia is hugely different. People everywhere crowding you into a box which you are in all by yourself. The lighting will be different, the atmophere different, the heat, the performance and the riders nerves will be different.


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## stormox (18 December 2014)

Why go to Olympia for his first outing anyway? Why not go to a bit of low-level stuff and introduce crowds gradually? Or even do a few RtoR shows first? But even so, I don't think he looked bothered by the crowds, he looked like he wasn't interested in anything, especially dressage.


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## 3OldPonies (18 December 2014)

EKW said:



			I think what people forget is that while yes he has performed infront of crowds numbering tens of thousands you only feel the real pressure of the people walking round the paddock. An easy jaunt where you play follow my leader. An on course parade is lead down and then canteres back - again follow my leader straight line stuff. But by this point you are on the course. Not close enough for the crowds to be an issue. When racing it's like being out in the wilderness! You get the home straight - a staight line and depending on which course you are at how many jumps are in front of you to keep you going. 

Olympia is hugely different. People everywhere crowding you into a box which you are in all by yourself. The lighting will be different, the atmophere different, the heat, the performance and the riders nerves will be different.
		
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That's true enough, but this 'display' was truly awful.  It's bad enough to watch as a rider, as a non rider, or possibly a beginner it's no sort of example to be setting.  You would have hoped that LC would have had enough sense to realise it was all going wrong and to do what lots of grass roots riders would have done and stopped for the sake of the horse.  If she's not got the guts to do that then I think she needs to take a long hard think about whether she is prepared to carry on with Kauto before her reputation is dragged through the mud any further.  And I think his owner, should also take a step back and put the horse's welfare before his own grand ideas - whatever they may be.

Personally, based on this performance, I don't think he is cut out for this type of exhibition career, especially if he has to be drugged to do them.


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## Elf On A Shelf (18 December 2014)

stormox said:



			Why go to Olympia for his first outing anyway? Why not go to a bit of low-level stuff and introduce crowds gradually? Or even do a few RtoR shows first? But even so, I don't think he looked bothered by the crowds, he looked like he wasn't interested in anything, especially dressage.
		
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He's been out doing displays here there and everywhere - wherever Laura takes that owner's eventers Kauto goes too. This was just his first time in such a highly charged indoor arena. Everything else has been outdoors. The poor begger goes everywhere! He will be at Kempton on Boxing Day parading again ...

The display was indeed truly shocking and I personally don't think the pair of them gel BUT she is being paid by the owner to look after the horse, she also has 2 or 3 eventers for him so I suspect she just has to keep shtum unfortunately! The owner is an arrogant erse bandit who I have no time for what so ever. Kauto probably has a great time at home happy hacking, playing on the gallops and doing wee bits of schooling but he will not be high priority in the yard. At least he placed the horse with a professional who is coached by someone who knows a lot about racehorses as well as eventers and the likes rather than get punted from pillar to post. 

I don't think he should have stayed at Nichol's yard. He was no spring chicken and when he fell he did right pearlers - not great for team chasing, hunting or the likes.


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## stormox (18 December 2014)

EKW why would it not have been good for him to be retired and still be at PNs yard? And no rider has to keep 'shtum' - if they don't believe in what the owner wants, and theyv any integrity, theyd be honest and say so.


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## glamourpuss (18 December 2014)

stormox said:



			EKW And no rider has to keep 'shtum' - if they don't believe in what the owner wants, and theyv any integrity, theyd be honest and say so.
		
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Urmmm not always possible in the professional world where a whole career rests on keeping owners happy so that you don't lose important rides. 
Those circles are very political.


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## LittleRooketRider (18 December 2014)

Whatever happened to removing ones hand from the rein when using a whip? I know she had a schooling whip but the movement on the reinas a result of it was quite vigorous...I think I'll be removing my hand from the rein even with a long whip in future.

EKW..he wouldn't necessarily have to jump out hunting, but whst I mean is a more relatable and perhaps relaxed direction would have been better. I get that its good for himt o have a purpose...but whts the point if he is just drugged, to be dragged round venues doing something he blatantly does not enjoy?


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## stormox (18 December 2014)

EKW - But there are a lot more owners out there who respect honesty integrity and doing your best by the horse, LC will only lose owners if they think shes not going to do right by their animals. And I don't think shes doing right by Kauto at all. He's earnt his retirement, why not let him spend it in the place he spent most of his life?


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## HollyWoozle (18 December 2014)

I am really amazed at the reaction to this performance. To my knowledge Laura Collett is a talented rider and whilst I do not condone the way she handled this performance (or how she handled Kauto) and it was a display of poor riding, most of us will never understand the pressure of that atmosphere on either her or Kauto himself. I am sure there is a lesson to be learnt here... it wasn't enjoyable to seeing Kauto being pushed along and the reins being jiggled but I think he'll get over it to be honest. From what I can understand generally he leads a pretty good life with Laura (which includes hacking) and he has performed several other times admirably. 

What fascinates me most is that many people seem to comment as if he has come from this easy life of racing and is now forced into a world of constant schooling and stressful performances. I don't believe anyone who tells me that trainers and jockeys didn't push him to the absolute maximum during his racing career to achieve the performances he gave. I don't have a problem with that particularly, but I don't see why that is seen as wondrous (all because he was so good at it) and a bad few minutes in the dressage ring is seen as horrific for him. I don't think that for an ex-racer to end up in an experienced, knowledgeable home is really the end of the world, even if they don't always get it right. 

Please don't get me wrong... I didn't enjoy the performance and found it stressful and cringe worthy, but how can everyone be so quick to judge from one performance? And to everyone who said Laura should have retired and called it a day, she was not competing, she was there to perform to a crowd who were expecting to see some moves. I agree that it would've been wise to abandon it if possible and I'm sure the crowd would have been understanding, but I'm sure it's hard to think straight with thousands of eyes on you and a whole load of expectation. 

Anyway, I'm sure somebody will verbally maul me now but that's how I feel about it. I just hope that Laura can pick herself up from it and continue on with a good riding career, learning from this experience and using it to better Kauto's situation (whatever that may mean).


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## bakewell (18 December 2014)

HollyWoozle said:



			And to everyone who said Laura should have retired and called it a day, she was not competing, she was there to perform to a crowd who were expecting to see some moves. I agree that it would've been wise to abandon it if possible and I'm sure the crowd would have been understanding, but I'm sure it's hard to think straight with thousands of eyes on you and a whole load of expectation. 

Anyway, I'm sure somebody will verbally maul me now but that's how I feel about it. I just hope that Laura can pick herself up from it and continue on with a good riding career, learning from this experience and using it to better Kauto's situation (whatever that may mean).
		
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Hardly a mauling but...  someone with xc experience at the upper level is used to performing in a very high pressure situation in front of a large crowd. Particularly xc at that level you need to know when to retire, to be sensitive to when the horse can't do it. Your neck and the horse's depend on it. 

Perhaps she was under pressure from owners or sponsors to continue. Unfortunately public opinion carries a lot of instant weight in times of social media. The permanency of video is also something that all professionals need to be aware of. You can't claim ignorance of the way media exposure works when it's your job. 

The other thing is she could have engendered more positive feeling towards her through a retirement, possibly as much or more so than a competent display. The scope of your actions is far greater with that level of public profile and I doubt she is unaware of that.

I may be off base here but I'd imagine clinics and training are a significant revenue stream for eventers, given prize money and sponsorships are a bit thinner than other disciplines plus the horses undervalued comparatively. Being a "name"/ aspirational figure counts for a lot in that market. And thus it goes back to media profile.

Secondly, this performance does a great disservice to the push for racehorses to be retrained/ rehomed and showcasing the flexibility of the breed. Which I believe is part of the reasoning behind them being there?


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## zaminda (18 December 2014)

I thought the display was pretty awful. The riding made her look bad, when she realised he wasn't going forward why keep doing the more complicated things, and not just stick to getting him going in an easy fashion? Personally, I think he would have been better off being allowed to go to a more allround home, and not expected to do lots of displays.
As an ex racer, he is used to the razz matazz, but it is different, and he knew what was expected of him. This is a whole new ball game, and I feel sorry for the horse, and pretty disgusted with his owner.


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## Laura_Grey (18 December 2014)

EKW said:



			The display was indeed truly shocking and I personally don't think the pair of them gel BUT she is being paid by the owner to look after the horse, she also has 2 or 3 eventers for him so I suspect she just has to keep shtum unfortunately! The owner is an arrogant erse bandit who I have no time for what so ever. Kauto probably has a great time at home happy hacking, playing on the gallops and doing wee bits of schooling but he will not be high priority in the yard. At least he placed the horse with a professional who is coached by someone who knows a lot about racehorses as well as eventers and the likes rather than get punted from pillar to post. 

I don't think he should have stayed at Nichol's yard. He was no spring chicken and when he fell he did right pearlers - not great for team chasing, hunting or the likes.
		
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The first bit of sense I have read about this whole kerfuffle. The girl made a mistake, she does not deserve to be burnt at the stake for it.


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## rhylis (18 December 2014)

I'm not sure what to make of that. It really reminded me of when my daughters learnt to ride and couldn't use their legs without jerking their hands about at the same time! And yet that can't be the reason behind that style of riding. I feel sorry for her and more so for the horse to see it all go that wrong. The forceful leg aids I can understand as a reaction to the panic of him shutting down on her, but the hands I really don't get.


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## paulineh (18 December 2014)

Kauto Star was once a proud horse. I saw him race many a time and he enjoy what he was doing.

His display at Olympia was a total disgrace. The horse does not enjoy being a puppet, let him hunt or event where he can show his real talent.


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## Elf On A Shelf (18 December 2014)

LittleRoodolphRider said:



			EKW..he wouldn't necessarily have to jump out hunting, but whst I mean is a more relatable and perhaps relaxed direction would have been better. I get that its good for himt o have a purpose...but whts the point if he is just drugged, to be dragged round venues doing something he blatantly does not enjoy?
		
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I don't think he has been drugged for everything he has done - certainly not his racecourse parades where Laura usually just leads him and lets him be a plonker for all the world to see.



stormox said:



			EKW - But there are a lot more owners out there who respect honesty integrity and doing your best by the horse, LC will only lose owners if they think shes not going to do right by their animals. And I don't think shes doing right by Kauto at all. He's earnt his retirement, why not let him spend it in the place he spent most of his life?
		
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Yes but this owner couldn't give a flying monkeys backside so long as his horses are out and about being seen. What do you think his retirement at Nichol's would have been? Galloping his backside off working with other good horses, out on the jumping lines giving leads to youngsters, being kept stupidly fit for no real reason? Or being dumped in a field and forgotten about to seize up and get arthritic? He was young for a normal horse when he retired from racing. No reason why he shouldn't have gone on to do something else. At least where he is just now he is being well looked after - fed, watered, groomed, exercised, turned out etc.


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## stormox (18 December 2014)

I don't think PN would have left him in a field forgotten, EKW- having been quite involved in the world of trainers and racehorses I know there are plenty of retired horses enjoying the life as honoured senior citizens, VIPs at the yards open days, nannying youngstock, etc - just go to Coolmore or Lambourn.


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## NinjaPony (18 December 2014)

The whole thing is very sad really. That horse is an absolute legend- one of my all time favourite racehorses and he deserves better than that display. Very glad I didn't see that in person- I would have found it upsetting. Instead I watched a lovely, sympathetic display given by Laura Tomlinson- full of praise, adjusting depending on the horse who was settled and relaxed in the environment. I personally think he would be better off with someone who can devote all their time to him rather than a busy event rider... I always thought she was a pretty decent rider but that display was awful....


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## debsflo (18 December 2014)

Poor horse. It's horrible to watch. I wonder how mortified the rider is as I would be so embarrassed.


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## Mr Nick (18 December 2014)

EKW what exactly is an "erse bandit" as per your post above?


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## Spring Feather (19 December 2014)

Mr Nick said:



			EKW what exactly is an "erse bandit" as per your post above?
		
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I wondered too so I googled it.  An arse bandit is apparently a homosexual so an erse bandit must be a Scottish homosexual I presume.


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## Spring Feather (19 December 2014)

And as to what went on; it was dire!  If I'd been the rider, I would have just held my hands up and laughed.  Pat the horse and then graciously left the arena on a loose rein.


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## NinjaPony (19 December 2014)

Charming.
Homophobic slurs aside, it does seem that his owner is really not acting in his best interests and considering how much he has done for him, that's a disgrace.


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## Elf On A Shelf (19 December 2014)

Sorry folks! Its a term I use for people who seriously p me off - I honestly didn't mean it in any other sense! I apologise for any offence caused, it was non-intentional!


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## wildwhippet (19 December 2014)

EKW... Wasn't "erse" a race of Scottish people, or a language at least? and I'm sure CS has and will be called far worse!!!


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## littleshetland (19 December 2014)

No, it certainly wasn't LC's finest moment - and this is a shame because she is usually a very good rider, surely otherwise KS's owner and PN would not have allowed him to go to her.  I think if you watch the entire 'performance' there are parts of it that are really pretty good, and then, for whatever reason, KS seems to switch off.  Now, imagine if you were LC.... the entire country is watching you and your celebrity horse, and things start to go wrong - I think we all know what she SHOULD have done, but at that moment in time, under that spotlight, I think she probably panicked a little and was desperate to try and turn things around, which just made things worse..........cut the girl some slack.


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## Emm (19 December 2014)

Horse looks lame to me on it's near hind, taking shorter length steps and seems very tense... I would of dismounted and lead the horse from the arena if it had been me, just my humble opinion.  Emm.


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## Pocket.Rocket (19 December 2014)

EKW said:



			I think what people forget is that while yes he has performed infront of crowds numbering tens of thousands you only feel the real pressure of the people walking round the paddock. An easy jaunt where you play follow my leader. An on course parade is lead down and then canteres back - again follow my leader straight line stuff. But by this point you are on the course. Not close enough for the crowds to be an issue. When racing it's like being out in the wilderness! You get the home straight - a staight line and depending on which course you are at how many jumps are in front of you to keep you going. 

Olympia is hugely different. People everywhere crowding you into a box which you are in all by yourself. The lighting will be different, the atmosphere different, the heat, the performance and the riders nerves will be different.
		
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I agree with this point very much.

I used to ride the calvary horses in London on lessons with the civil service riding club and those horses are fine in a pack, they move around together through huge crowds but try to circle them on their own in an arena and it's a very different thing altogether!


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## misskk88 (19 December 2014)

Not read all comments, but I smell the greed of the owner, and anyone else with a financial interest in the horse.

I don't doubt the care of him with LC, but I just do not understand why a horse has to be pushed to his limits, even after a highly successful career. I am all for a horse having a job to do, BUT at this point and after the money he has made, does he REALLY need to be out competing at this level?

Whatever the reason for his behaviour, and whether you look at it as him being given calmers, or as 'stage fright',  clearly he has been pushed too hard and too fast.


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## Elf On A Shelf (19 December 2014)

He wasn't competing at Olympia - he was giving a demonstration which was a basic walk, trot, canter in circles and stuff. Not hard work in the slightest and probably easier than what he has been doing at home.


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## misskk88 (19 December 2014)

EKW said:



			He wasn't competing at Olympia - he was giving a demonstration which was a basic walk, trot, canter in circles and stuff. Not hard work in the slightest and probably easier than what he has been doing at home.
		
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Sorry, I didn't mean to type competing. Either way, I stand by what I said- I think it was too much for him, for whatever reason.


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## MyDogIsAnIdiot (19 December 2014)

The article on E-venting seems to sum up everyone's thoughts on the subject very well. http://e-venting.co.uk/2014/12/kauto-star-whats-all-the-fuss-about/


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## LittleRooketRider (19 December 2014)

MyDogIsAnIdiot said:



			The article on E-venting seems to sum up everyone's thoughts on the subject very well. http://e-venting.co.uk/2014/12/kauto-star-whats-all-the-fuss-about/

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here here to this


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## buzzybef (19 December 2014)

i bet he'd love a nice hunting home!


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## Spring Feather (19 December 2014)

MyDogIsAnIdiot said:



			The article on E-venting seems to sum up everyone's thoughts on the subject very well. http://e-venting.co.uk/2014/12/kauto-star-whats-all-the-fuss-about/

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Exactly my take on it; damage limitation.  Laugh, pat horse, and exit.


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## buzzybef (19 December 2014)

so her riding is good? I'm an awful rider, but jeez...


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## Dave's Mam (19 December 2014)

MyDogIsAnIdiot said:



			The article on E-venting seems to sum up everyone's thoughts on the subject very well. http://e-venting.co.uk/2014/12/kauto-star-whats-all-the-fuss-about/

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Very good article.


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## Elf On A Shelf (19 December 2014)

buzzybef said:



			so her riding is good? I'm an awful rider, but jeez...
		
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Yes she is a fantastic rider but everyone has their off days and that was clearly hers! She events to 4* and as a kid backed and produced a wee welsh A called Penwynn Ryan to win the HOYS WHP and go on to be Supreme Pony of the show!


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## gmw (19 December 2014)

Then she should stick to riding section As.


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## Spring Feather (19 December 2014)

gmw said:



			Then she should stick to riding section As.
		
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*Giggles*


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## TeamChaser (19 December 2014)

I feel for LC. Sat at our laptops we can only imagine the pressure of taking on such a publicly  adored horse, having the world at large follow your progress as you re train him, have thousands of folk watching your display at a venue such as Olympia and realising it's all gone horribly wrong. I'm sure she wishes she'd reacted differently and bitterly regrets that she didn't given the public backlash .... poor girl. I haven't watched the video as it would make me sad to be honest - Kauto is 1 in a million and my favourite race horse ever. Watching replays of King George wins over the years just confirms his status as the best there's been - breathtaking 

What I hate about all of this is not LC's general handling of the horse, I'm sure he has a lovely life on the whole, but why must he do a 'job' after what he's given everyone? There aren't just 2 choices - field or compete. My ex racehorse is a tit and despite trying most things over the years he's either been too hot or hasn't enjoyed it ... so we stopped doing it. Happy hacker is used so dismissively, but guess what, that's just what he is. He's ridden every day, has the odd whiz up the gallop or loose jumping session with my team chaser and is fit and happy. At 18 still a complete monkey and loves life. Not too shabby an existence .....


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## teddysheep (19 December 2014)

This was undoubtedly very uncomfortable to watch & KS looked very out of sorts, very 'disconnected' & completely 'out of it', not the mention the treatment from the rider.  I love racing & clearly remember of course his great spirit & running battles with Denman.  What I saw was reminiscent of a great beast put onto public display with it's spirit broken, purely for entertainment - very sad.  My all time favourite race horse was Desert Orchid, who I saw many times after his retirement & I am drawn to make comparisons for in his latter years each time we saw him at his Open Days, if the horse was not right, he didn't come out,he didn't gallop or he didn't parade - end of, horse came first, despite it being disappointing for the Public, but we understood - that's horses for you.....I don't feel this is the case with Kauto Star & it should be, it is what all horses deserve (not just the champs).


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## AmieeT (19 December 2014)

MyDogIsAnIdiot said:



			The article on E-venting seems to sum up everyone's thoughts on the subject very well. http://e-venting.co.uk/2014/12/kauto-star-whats-all-the-fuss-about/

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Wholeheartedly agree with this.

Ax


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## LCH611 (19 December 2014)

GMW what an appallingly rude thing to say. Not only does she event a wide variety of horses extremely successfully (take a look at her BE record if you don't believe me), she has also come back from a terrible injury that nearly killed her. She virtually died at the scene and there weren't many people at the event that day that ever thought she would be back on a horse, let along competing at such a high level, so soon. This internet bullying is sickening.


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## stormox (19 December 2014)

Out of interest, how do these types of demo work? People are saying the owner is greedy hawking Kauto around doing demo's etc. So would he be paid for doing the dressage display at Olympia? Are famous racehorses paid for appearing at racecourse parades? I never really thought about it before, just assumed they did it for nothing, or for expenses.....


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## bakewell (19 December 2014)

stormox said:



			Out of interest, how do these types of demo work? People are saying the owner is greedy hawking Kauto around doing demo's etc. So would he be paid for doing the dressage display at Olympia? Are famous racehorses paid for appearing at racecourse parades? I never really thought about it before, just assumed they did it for nothing, or for expenses.....
		
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I think it might be more of a glory hound than cash incentive accusation.


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## Apercrumbie (19 December 2014)

That article is very good - not too damning of LC but equally not shying away from saying that it was wrong.  Her riding did make me cringe, which shocked me as obviously she is a very capable rider.  It actually says a lot about how much he backed off that she felt she had to do that to keep him moving.  The article makes a good point when it says that a 4* rider could barely make him move - that's quite worrying in itself.  The only remark I disagree with is about ex racers rarely tying up/backing off when nervous - I know a few who do just that when stressed or nervous, but equally they weren't champions and that reflex was one of the reasons they weren't.  

I hope his career is now reassessed.  As long as he is healthy and happy (and it has to be said he looked fantastic apart from his way of going) then I don't mind what he does, although it is fantastic to see Denman out hunting and team chasing.  However, I'm not entirely sure that Kauto is happy, although I hope I see a different display where I am proved wrong.  And it has to be said - what is the point of his new career?  And what is the point of him being with an event rider who completely understandably will not have the time nor desire to focus on him?


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## popsdosh (19 December 2014)

LCH611 said:



			GMW what an appallingly rude thing to say. Not only does she event a wide variety of horses extremely successfully (take a look at her BE record if you don't believe me), she has also come back from a terrible injury that nearly killed her. She virtually died at the scene and there weren't many people at the event that day that ever thought she would be back on a horse, let along competing at such a high level, so soon. This internet bullying is sickening.
		
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There is very little internet bullying . People just find it strange that a rider with her talent and ability did not seem to realise what an idiot they were making themselves look by persevering with a horse that so obviously had a problem when the brave thing to do was stop the agony for her and the horse! To go back to his racing days ,if a jockey had pushed him like that when he clearly was out of it they would have received a lengthy ban.
I dont think her BE record or her injuries have any thing to do with it or are you trying to use them as an excuse for the apalling display of riding on Weds. YB should shoulder as much of the blame but I suspect both of them were trying their hardest to please a man who is very difficult to please, as he funds a huge part of the eventing operation now.
I really hope that next time they appear at a racecourse some of this will have been forgotten as this so called witch hunt on here is nothing compared to how racing fans view it .


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## Elf On A Shelf (19 December 2014)

Kauto Star is out on parade again at Kempton on Boxing Day. I expect he will be in-hand as most racecourse parades are so they can wear their specially made rugs.


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## NinjaPony (19 December 2014)

I don't really have a problem with him parading- Kempton is his old stomping ground, a very familiar environment for him and a chance for his fans to say hello. That display on the other hand was just awful.


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## katherinef (19 December 2014)

Desert Orchid did used to be ridden when leading the parade before the King George at least until he became a bit too old for it.


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## stormox (19 December 2014)

well, I hope they get him checked by a vet first, in case there was something wrong with him. Desert Orchid ran away with his jockey the last parade I saw him do- he LOVED his retirement, and I hope they now let Kauto enjoy his.


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## Elf On A Shelf (19 December 2014)

He won't get a vet check for being on parade, just his passport checked for up to date vaccinations. I honestly hate to imagine what Nichol's staff are going to say to her when she appears. I expect she is now dreading it.


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## stormox (19 December 2014)

No, I didn't mean at the racecourse, I meant I hope they had the vet after that awful Olympia performance, before taking him out again. Just to make sure he wasn't sick or drugged....


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## Summer pudding (19 December 2014)

A rider of her calibre should be able to get on anything and get a reasonable tune out of it.  She wasn't riding him for the first time so why did it look so awful? I don't buy the atmosphere story..and hate the idea that he was drugged...her interview afterwards was not conciliatory.  Why, oh why didn't she have the sensitivity to stop the display and hold her hand up afterwards and say something was not right, instead she compounded her error with an awful display of riding and a cringe making interview. Poor, poor KT, he deserves better having earned so much for his owners, and given so much pleasure during his racing career. My opinion of the racing industry has plummeted even further - I have an ex-racer in blissful hacking heaven retirement.


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## glamourpuss (19 December 2014)

Popsdosh has hit on something very valid....if people think the LC/KS situation is being harshly discussed here you don't want to hear what I've heard people from the racing community are saying!!


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## katherinef (19 December 2014)

It will be interesting to see KS' reaction at Kempton as contrasted  to those sad scenes at Olympia the other night.


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## charlie76 (19 December 2014)

stormox said:



			No, I didn't mean at the racecourse, I meant I hope they had the vet after that awful Olympia performance, before taking him out again. Just to make sure he wasn't sick or drugged....
		
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Why? He wasn't competing, there is no rules or regulations to stop you giving the horse a sedative to ride in a non competitive demo. 
I still maintain there is nothing wrong with him and there is nothing wrong with the way she usually rides/produces him, he was just given something, whether it be sedaline or something similar to keep the lid on him for his, hers and everyone's else's safety and once his adreline kicked in it had a huge reaction on him and did its job a bit too well! I have ridden horses on sedaline and once it kicks in, its like running through treacle.


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## Elf On A Shelf (19 December 2014)

glamourpuss said:



			Popsdosh has hit on something very valid....if people think the LC/KS situation is being harshly discussed here you don't want to hear what I've heard people from the racing community are saying!!
		
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Though most people in racing wouldn't have a clue how to actually ride a hors. Most just know how to sit on one, point it in a straight line and gallop it. I know - I work with enough of them!


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## stormox (19 December 2014)

Charlie76- just to make sure there wasn't something physically wrong with the poor horse - there are knowledgeable people saying he 'wasn't right behind' 'lame' 'tied-up' anything could have been wrong. And if I was the owner or keeper I would want to make sure he was OK before he went out again.


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## popsdosh (19 December 2014)

charlie76 said:



			Why? He wasn't competing, there is no rules or regulations to stop you giving the horse a sedative to ride in a non competitive demo. 
I still maintain there is nothing wrong with him and there is nothing wrong with the way she usually rides/produces him, he was just given something, whether it be sedaline or something similar to keep the lid on him for his, hers and everyone's else's safety and once his adreline kicked in it had a huge reaction on him and did its job a bit too well! I have ridden horses on sedaline and once it kicks in, its like running through treacle.
		
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There is in my mind  no legitimate reason to ride a horse on sedalin. It is dangerous for the horse and rider. Certainly if it was that the other night he should not have been there in the first place ! end of.


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## SkewbyTwo (19 December 2014)

glamourpuss said:



			Popsdosh has hit on something very valid....if people think the LC/KS situation is being harshly discussed here you don't want to hear what I've heard people from the racing community are saying!!
		
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Good to hear. Small comfort. But good to hear.


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## charlie76 (19 December 2014)

popsdosh said:



			There is in my mind  no legitimate reason to ride a horse on sedalin. It is dangerous for the horse and rider. Certainly if it was that the other night he should not have been there in the first place ! end of.
		
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Never said there was but there is no reason for it to be drug tested


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## Echo Bravo (19 December 2014)

EKW perhaps it's time you got out of racing work, seems you don't like it or the people much


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## katherinef (19 December 2014)

EKW said:



			Though most people in racing wouldn't have a clue how to actually ride a hors. Most just know how to sit on one, point it in a straight line and gallop it. I know - I work with enough of them!
		
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Does that apply to Ruby Walsh, Tony McCoy etc?


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## stormox (19 December 2014)

EKW said:



			Though most people in racing wouldn't have a clue how to actually ride a hors. Most just know how to sit on one, point it in a straight line and gallop it. I know - I work with enough of them!
		
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EKW - that's rather an extreme thing to say.... Anyone who can ride a strong, fit steeplechaser with a tiny saddle and really short stirrups over a course of 4-5ft fences must have exceptional balance and bravery. And don't forget a lot of the jockeys were successful at SJ before they became jockeys.


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## SkewbyTwo (19 December 2014)

stormox said:



			EKW - that's rather an extreme thing to say.... Anyone who can ride a strong, fit steeplechaser with a tiny saddle and really short stirrups over a course of 4-5ft fences must have exceptional balance and bravery. And don't forget a lot of the jockeys were successful at SJ before they became jockeys.
		
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And they very rarely block a horse. That was why it was so heartbreaking to watch KS on Tuesday. He was being shut down at every stride. Yet he was still trying. He has never, ever known riding like it. Nor a silent crowd.


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## justabob (19 December 2014)

Oh EKW, what a stupid thing to say. Get out of racing then and concentrate on showing your ponies.


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## katherinef (19 December 2014)

reaction of audience watching that horror show the other night said it all.


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## SkewbyTwo (19 December 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			Exactly my take on it; damage limitation.  Laugh, pat horse, and exit.
		
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That was the other thing that got to me. Not once did she try a pat. A hand on his neck. A word to him. She just began that nasty display. And continued it when it didn't work. He was an utter Christian not to ditch her.


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## OldNag (19 December 2014)

gmw said:



			Then she should stick to riding section As.
		
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Having seen that, I wouldn't let her on my Section A.


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## madmav (19 December 2014)

Agree with you. Well said.



TeamChaser said:



			I feel for LC. Sat at our laptops we can only imagine the pressure of taking on such a publicly  adored horse, having the world at large follow your progress as you re train him, have thousands of folk watching your display at a venue such as Olympia and realising it's all gone horribly wrong. I'm sure she wishes she'd reacted differently and bitterly regrets that she didn't given the public backlash .... poor girl. I haven't watched the video as it would make me sad to be honest - Kauto is 1 in a million and my favourite race horse ever. Watching replays of King George wins over the years just confirms his status as the best there's been - breathtaking 

What I hate about all of this is not LC's general handling of the horse, I'm sure he has a lovely life on the whole, but why must he do a 'job' after what he's given everyone? There aren't just 2 choices - field or compete. My ex racehorse is a tit and despite trying most things over the years he's either been too hot or hasn't enjoyed it ... so we stopped doing it. Happy hacker is used so dismissively, but guess what, that's just what he is. He's ridden every day, has the odd whiz up the gallop or loose jumping session with my team chaser and is fit and happy. At 18 still a complete monkey and loves life. Not too shabby an existence .....
		
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## madmav (19 December 2014)

Just seen Beeb clip. He was cantering around arena nicely at the start. What went wrong? I love Kauto. Laura looked like me riding at the end - i.e. not pretty.  But it wasn't that awful. Think he was drugged though. Would probably have done the same if I were her. He will be fine. They will learn from their mistakes.


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