# horse passports and yards



## lea1988 (4 August 2013)

Hi am just looking for some advice I've been on this yard since November last year we signed a contract but she has now brought a new contract to us which she is wanting us all to sign. In this contract it states that the passports must be kept with her at the yard in till we leave, I don't feel comfortable with giving her mine so I have asked see if we can give her a photo copy and show her the originals but she said no she wants the originals to be kept with her as shes the keeper and in case she needs to ring vets i only live 10 min drive away from the yard and am D.I.Y. no matter what with the job i do i can always go to the yard whenever is needed, she doesn't do anything for any horse in less its livery but she doesn't then its her staff what does it all. She said that it's a new law that has come out that all passports must be with the yard owner. Any advice would be brilliant thank you in advance.


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## MerrySherryRider (4 August 2013)

She is not the keeper, you are. However, her yard, her rules, so you can only vote with your feet if she insists. 

Personally, I'd leave if she did insist.


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## lea1988 (4 August 2013)

I am really thinking off leaving but i need to b able to stable my 3 horses n my sisters 2 which we are struggling to find 5 stables in the same area. The thing that scares me the most is that last month she was texting me 2 weeks before my yard money was due insisting it need to be paid i did text her back saying it wasnt due yet and i wouldn't be paying till it was as i always pay a month upfront.She didn't say anything more about it but i know am not the only one she was texting for the money. I also pay in the middle off the month when i get paid and that was an agreement when I moved onto the yard she's know saying it needs to be paid on the 1st off every month or interest will be added. With the things that are happening its making me wonder if the yard is struggling with money. I've been told that if she has the passports she can sale the horses.


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## be positive (4 August 2013)

I have the passports for my liveries but they are on full livery and the owners are often away so there may be an emergency when I need to transport them for treatment , vet treatment on the yard will not require the passports to be shown as long as they are seen by the usual vet who has seen that the part declaring that they are not to enter the food chain is signed, a photocopy will suffice until the original can be produced.
For DIYs I would expect daily visits and so the owner would deal with most things and be available if required, they would only leave the passport if they are away for any time such as a holiday.


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## lea1988 (4 August 2013)

we have been up to the farm tonight to find a letter to everyone saying:-

1) The new livery agreements need to be returned, along with your horse/ponies passports. Can you please return to me by Thursday 8th August. Failure to do so will unfortunately result in termination of your contract. If you have an elderly horse/pony and you do not have a passport. please let me know and arrangements can be made rectify the situation.

2) Stable walls in the bottom yard. If your horse is stabled in this yard, you will be aware that you have been asked to scrub your stable walls and floors.Following your letter a reminder has been placed on the blackboard. If you are not able to do your stable, we are happy to do it for you; however there will be a charge of £50 to cover the staff costs. If you intend to do the stable yourself, please let us know by 3 pm on Monday 5th off August, otherwise we will assume that you require us to do it for you.The doors and rails will be painted, as we work our way to your stable I would be grateful if you do not use it whilst the paint is drying. If your horse needs to be stabled, please let me know.

3) Please take the opportunity of the hot weather to wash/repair your rugs. Rugs left on walls and excess rugs on racks will be removed. Again they will only be available for collection during office hours.

4)Hay/straw. Some of you require hay and straw. We do not have access to large amount of old hay/straw and require a weeks' notice if you need any, to ensure that there is enough for everyone. You are reminded that, as before, it will only be provided in the week, during office hours and we will not be provided unless paid for in advance. You are not allowed to take hay/straw from the barn or storeroom yourself.

5) Services. As a livery yard we need to remind you that any service during working hours should be carried out by staff and not other liveries on your behalf. Unless you wish to attend to your own horse/pony during working hours, please ask a member of staff to assist. Please remember not to ask staff to assist as a '' favor''

6) Arena/lessons. Lessons should not be given at the yard by others unless they have appropriate insurance cover. This applies to all lessons whether paid,paid in kind, or free. For any such lessons a copy off the insurance certificate must be provided, the arena must be booked and  charge levied.
This is deferent to the 1st contract we have got with no end date on...and these are extras what go with the new contract..
people in the bottom stables have scrubbed them and laid fresh bedding and now need to re do the stables...

We have been to look at a different yard today we are going back tomorrow to talk as we don't want to leave one yard to go onto another what is the same the new contract n this is all about money...We shouldn't need any member off staff to assist us with our horses as they are ours and we will b charged for the staff assisting. office hours are between 8:30 and 5:30 normally... Our fields do not get picked or anything in-less we all do it ourselfs 
thank you all for your advice.


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## Pearlsasinger (4 August 2013)

My advice is to leave,  asap.
The YO is NOT the keeper of your horse, although those who provide full livery are.  As for the painting nonsense and the rubbish about not doing/asking favours, again it is normal for DIYers to arrange things amongst themselves.  Your YO should really only provide full livery.  It does sound as if the yard is struggling for money.


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## lea1988 (5 August 2013)

Were off to look at a yard today what we can move on to straight away but we've got to wait for her to cancel contracts on the 8th if we go now she wants 4 weeks money even though were always a month up front. She will b losing 7 horses that day at 90 per month per horse said anyone can go and see her a bout it but when you try and get hold of her shes always busy wont answer her phone and does everything through her staff.


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## Pearlsasinger (5 August 2013)

I'd probably wait the 4 days, as it will take a while to get everything organised anyway.  Make sure that you take all your equipment away.  Do be careful though, I'd be a bit suspicious of a yard that can take 7 new horses at the drop of a hat.  You could be going from the frying-pan into the fire.
Good luck!


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## lea1988 (6 August 2013)

*Been looking all day today from half 10 till half 8. we have people we know saying we can have there fields till we find stables an old farm I use to be at said we can have his field n when a stable comes free he will give it to us another farm said we can have his fields and he will have stables built before winter.we have seen that much today our heads are mass she will be losing 7 off them this week. Spoke to someone who as asked legal advice for us n he said she only has to give us 24 hour's notice she's terminating the contracts n she only needs to give us 1 hour notice to leave xxx*


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## lachlanandmarcus (6 August 2013)

If you can always, without exception, guarantee to get to the yard within 3hours day or night then you can decide to keep the passport. 

If not, then DIY or not, the YO is required to keep the passport because on demand from the authorities it MUST be produced within 3 hours. 

However in a vet emergency they also will need the passport and that could be a lot less than 3 hours. For me, that means it should be kept securely at the yard/YO 

If you don't trust a YO to keep your horses passport, why on earth would you have your horse at their yard is my question? ESP as its not an ownership document. 

I wouldn't have my horse anywhere where I didn't have enough faith in the YO to have them keep the passport.


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## Ginge Crosby (6 August 2013)

lachlanandmarcus said:



			If you can always, without exception, guarantee to get to the yard within 3hours day or night then you can decide to keep the passport. 

If not, then DIY or not, the YO is required to keep the passport because on demand from the authorities it MUST be produced within 3 hours. 

However in a vet emergency they also will need the passport and that could be a lot less than 3 hours. For me, that means it should be kept securely at the yard/YO 

If you don't trust a YO to keep your horses passport, why on earth would you have your horse at their yard is my question? ESP as its not an ownership document. 

I wouldn't have my horse anywhere where I didn't have enough faith in the YO to have them keep the passport.
		
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THIS^^
I looked into the law regarding passports when deciding whether to ask liveries for originals or have photocopies. I have alot of students from the local uni on livery so if they can't or don't think they are able to provide me with the passport within 3 hrs of requested. 

Your YO sounds like a bit of a nightmare tbh; If I have maintenance work to be done in the stables I have to do it as the YM. Once a yr the stables are pressure washed by me, I drag all their mats out to wash the stables, then repaint the stables myself. 

The state a livery's rugs are in is their own business. I do not dictate to them when to wash their rugs. 

I do agree with her on point number 4 - none of my liveries have access to the hay and bedding store. In the winter they have to order bedding from me on a weekly basis, so every monday new bedding is left outside their stables for them. It means i'm not running in and out of the bedding store 3 times a day 7 days a week, and in the long run most liveries save money as it means they budget how much they need. If however they get caught short, I will always go out and put bedding out, but they know as a general rule, Monday is bedding day.

Point 5 - I offer myself for livery services which they pay me for; however i'm perfectly happy for liveries to help each other out, or I help out a livery providing they return the favour. 

Is it a fairly big/professional yard you're on?


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## lachlanandmarcus (6 August 2013)

Pearlsasinger said:



			My advice is to leave,  asap.
The YO is NOT the keeper of your horse, although those who provide full livery are.  As for the painting nonsense and the rubbish about not doing/asking favours, again it is normal for DIYers to arrange things amongst themselves.  Your YO should really only provide full livery.  It does sound as if the yard is struggling for money.
		
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Our old yard wasn't struggling for money, but they also had the rule re favours (they were only allowed at times YO wasn't available eg weekends or bank holidays), the rest of the time if you didn't do the job the YO had to be paid to do it. 

I don't think it's fair or unfair to have that rule, it's just part of the deal that you are accepting when taking up the contract for livery PROVIDED it was part of that initial agreement. If they didn't make money there then livery charges would need to be higher, you take your choice. 

It would however be unreasonable to start imposing this rule on existing clients for whom it wasn't part of the deal up til now, and would also be a bit unreasonable if the hours that people were allowed onto the yard were restrictive so that those late back from work would not have the chance to do the job themselves.


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## dogatemysalad (6 August 2013)

Generally, DIYers are able to present a passport within 3 hours. 

If the vet attends an emergency, he will treat the horse without a passport. The only time my vet has seen mine was  to sign for vacs and even then they've been happy to sign it later when they next see me or I bring them in.

Unless the YO never leaves the property or has 24 hr staff cover, leaving a passport in their care could mean that you couldn't transport your horse in an emergency. 

Your YO's list of rules is a bit off putting. Yards with no contract and written rules work very well if the YO has good communication skills and chooses good clients.

Hope you find somewhere else soon, OP.


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## Capriole (6 August 2013)

dogatemysalad said:



			Unless the YO never leaves the property or has 24 hr staff cover, leaving a passport in their care could mean that you couldn't transport your horse in an emergency.
		
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That would be my concern. Nothing at all to do with not trusting them. More a case of having experience of hard to get hold of YO who work off yard and are bad enough to pin down when you need them for hay/straw, never mind having an unplanned jaunt to the beach or something. Emergency transport (ie Vet) I would travel without the passport and be damned though.


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## lea1988 (6 August 2013)

We moved onto a riding school yard and the lady takes disabled people and children on... I had every trust for her when i 1st went to see her and the yard, there was 5 off us who all moved together she was lovely the contracts at the time was reasonable one of my friends moved off 3 months ago cos she started being really nasty with her, she started to be really nice and then she started to be funny with everyone and the new contract and rules have come out. No one can say that they know what every yard they look at is going to be like if you dont know anyone on the yard n they make out its a brilliant yard.


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## lea1988 (6 August 2013)

I can get to the yard with in the 3 hours as i only live 10 mins away and work around this area n i always carry the passports with me as you never know when you will need them Hopefully I've found the perfect place i will only be sharing with a my sister and friend and another lady which is a friend of a friend if the owner off the stables agree. i agree with the hay/straw rule and i agree with the favors but i do admit i asked her once to see if anyone could just check the horses are ok in the field in till my friend got up there later as i had to go into hospital. everyone up there always helps out with mending fences and things like that but evryone helps everyone out up there instead off asking her and the staff but in the rules we are not aloud to touch others horse we have to ask her staff which then we will be charged with she said in our new contracts see the back page for prices but she never put any prices on the back page.


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## lea1988 (6 August 2013)

am D.I.Y i could understand if i was livery I'd be paying alot more.


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## ILuvCowparsely (6 August 2013)

lea1988 said:



			Hi am just looking for some advice I've been on this yard since November last year we signed a contract but she has now brought a new contract to us which she is wanting us all to sign. In this contract it states that the passports must be kept with her at the yard in till we leave, I don't feel comfortable with giving her mine so I have asked see if we can give her a photo copy and show her the originals but she said no she wants the originals to be kept with her as shes the keeper and in case she needs to ring vets i only live 10 min drive away from the yard and am D.I.Y. no matter what with the job i do i can always go to the yard whenever is needed, she doesn't do anything for any horse in less its livery but she doesn't then its her staff what does it all. She said that it's a new law that has come out that all passports must be with the yard owner. Any advice would be brilliant thank you in advance.
		
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I Well on one hand its her rules.  It would be courtersy for her to give you an advanced warning of this new contract, rather than just dishing it out.  
 I mean if the YO is not around and you need to take horse somewhere  in emergency you have to travel with the passport.

 I would do some research and see if it is a law, I have not heard of it.


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## lea1988 (6 August 2013)

She does live on the yard but shes not always there and when you ring her she never answers and if you txt her it takes hours for her to txt back... I have my horses so close to home and my work so i know i or someone else can get to them quick. As we was looking around and ringing around yesterday people wanted to know why we are are leaving so quick with so many horses and they have all said its not a law they know off and all they ask for is photo copies she doesn't need the originals. A friend has spoke to her today and she keeps saying its in the horses welfare in case they needed a vet straight away and they wanted to transfer the horses am sorry but i know I can or a member off my family can get there before or around the same time as the vet as am that close to the farm, one of my horses got stuck when i moved him up to the farm when i got there she told me he was stuck in the fencing she never decided to go and help him as she didn't know what time i was going to go up she didn't even check on him luckily i got there not long after when he hurt his leg on the fencing she didn't go and check to see if he hurt his self she waited till i got there so shes not gna do anything shes going to wait till the owners get there so i don't see were shes coming from when shes saying she might need it for vets ect...I've even spoke to the passport people and they have said as long as I can get there with in 3 hours she doesn't need them.


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## elijahasgal (11 August 2013)

Personally on DIY re passports, I would be happy to give a photocopy, but not the original. My vets have seen my passports, and are happy with that, they just ask me my horses name (I have more than one!)

How tight are the rules re other people touching each others horses?  I am sorry, but no, only her staff can do anything?!!!  NEVER.  two friends one turns out one brings in and have done for years.....   Lady going on holiday daughter standing in?!!  Husband not being able to handle wifes horse?  Cant pass a hoofpick over if someone has hold of a horse?!!!!
Where does that line end?

Changing the contract with no notice? Harassing for money before due date because she decides to change it?

Telling them to get their rugs cleaned or they will be taken off a place that they have been willingly allowed to keep them up to that point?  Please we are going to repaint etc sounds politer.....

No I dont think I would be staying, Either, nor can she be surprised at the mass exodus.


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## lachlanandmarcus (11 August 2013)

Leviathan said:



			I Well on one hand its her rules.  It would be courtersy for her to give you an advanced warning of this new contract, rather than just dishing it out.  
 I mean if the YO is not around and you need to take horse somewhere  in emergency you have to travel with the passport.

 I would do some research and see if it is a law, I have not heard of it.
		
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The rules re producing it within timescale and it being kept with the keeper not necessarily the owner if this is most likely to achieve that is definitely legal requirement.

The links at the bottom of this article describing the regulations

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/bus1item.cgi?file=*BADV624-1001.txt


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## Spot_On (11 August 2013)

I have never left a passport with any of the yard managers/yards I have been on, unless I have been on holiday. I have always produced it when I first move, after that it is my responsibility.


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## lea1988 (6 September 2013)

We left the yard the day she ended the old contracts. Didn't go down to well. I would give anyone my passports I can always provide them when anyone needs to look at them even if am at work I can always get them there... she tried saying it was for the vets as well in case they need to transport the horses we looked into it and a vet can transport a horse in a emergency without a passport. Thankyou all for your advice x


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## hnmisty (6 September 2013)

Wow. Those rules are written by a dragon.

My favourite is number 6. Don't anywayur friends to help you out because then we can't charge you. Wtf?!

I would move. Whose business is it how many rugs you keep on your rug rack amyway?!


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## lea1988 (6 September 2013)

At the time it was written think everyone only had there fly rugs n another rug on there. I try to bring mine back... since wi left she has shown even to b a dragon. She wanted to talk to us after we left but all we got was her screaming cos we moved n wouldnt hand passports over xxx


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## skint1 (6 September 2013)

lea1988 said:



			we have been up to the farm tonight to find a letter to everyone saying:-

1) The new livery agreements need to be returned, along with your horse/ponies passports. Can you please return to me by Thursday 8th August. Failure to do so will unfortunately result in termination of your contract. If you have an elderly horse/pony and you do not have a passport. please let me know and arrangements can be made rectify the situation.

2) Stable walls in the bottom yard. If your horse is stabled in this yard, you will be aware that you have been asked to scrub your stable walls and floors.Following your letter a reminder has been placed on the blackboard. If you are not able to do your stable, we are happy to do it for you; however there will be a charge of £50 to cover the staff costs. If you intend to do the stable yourself, please let us know by 3 pm on Monday 5th off August, otherwise we will assume that you require us to do it for you.The doors and rails will be painted, as we work our way to your stable I would be grateful if you do not use it whilst the paint is drying. If your horse needs to be stabled, please let me know.

3) Please take the opportunity of the hot weather to wash/repair your rugs. Rugs left on walls and excess rugs on racks will be removed. Again they will only be available for collection during office hours.

4)Hay/straw. Some of you require hay and straw. We do not have access to large amount of old hay/straw and require a weeks' notice if you need any, to ensure that there is enough for everyone. You are reminded that, as before, it will only be provided in the week, during office hours and we will not be provided unless paid for in advance. You are not allowed to take hay/straw from the barn or storeroom yourself.

5) Services. As a livery yard we need to remind you that any service during working hours should be carried out by staff and not other liveries on your behalf. Unless you wish to attend to your own horse/pony during working hours, please ask a member of staff to assist. Please remember not to ask staff to assist as a '' favor''

6) Arena/lessons. Lessons should not be given at the yard by others unless they have appropriate insurance cover. This applies to all lessons whether paid,paid in kind, or free. For any such lessons a copy off the insurance certificate must be provided, the arena must be booked and  charge levied.
This is deferent to the 1st contract we have got with no end date on...and these are extras what go with the new contract..
people in the bottom stables have scrubbed them and laid fresh bedding and now need to re do the stables...

We have been to look at a different yard today we are going back tomorrow to talk as we don't want to leave one yard to go onto another what is the same the new contract n this is all about money...We shouldn't need any member off staff to assist us with our horses as they are ours and we will b charged for the staff assisting. office hours are between 8:30 and 5:30 normally... Our fields do not get picked or anything in-less we all do it ourselfs 
thank you all for your advice.
		
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Wow, I can't imagine why you wouldn' want to stay in that little slice of horsey Heaven   sounds like such a great place.  I love Rule 3, what constitutes "excess" rugs exactly?  I'd be cool if she wanted hoik all mine off and store them in her nice office, I would probably collect them just before winter


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## ArabianBeauty (12 September 2013)

I have just read this. This horrifies me. The owner sounds awful.


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## Goldenstar (12 September 2013)

She will probably end up with a lovely tidy empty yard.


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## mynutmeg (16 September 2013)

Capriole said:



			That would be my concern. Nothing at all to do with not trusting them. More a case of having experience of hard to get hold of YO who work off yard and are bad enough to pin down when you need them for hay/straw, never mind having an unplanned jaunt to the beach or something. Emergency transport (ie Vet) I would travel without the passport and be damned though.
		
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lea1988 said:



			We left the yard the day she ended the old contracts. Didn't go down to well. I would give anyone my passports I can always provide them when anyone needs to look at them even if am at work I can always get them there... she tried saying it was for the vets as well in case they need to transport the horses we looked into it and a vet can transport a horse in a emergency without a passport. Thankyou all for your advice x
		
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wow - glad you got out of there. I've never yet had anyone ask for a passport and if you don't have it then surely you're not expected to delay vet treatment to go and get it. Picking up the passport was the last thing on my mind when I took my mare to the Dick Vets with choke/pneumonia. They didn't ask for it at the vets either, just got on and treated her.


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