# Meet Cards



## frankster (26 October 2017)

I am told that the MFHA have issued guidance that meet cards should only be sent to subscribers, In our case this means that supporters club members have to contact the Hon Sec to ask to come out. Puts the lid on it for some of us who have to plan where we go well in advance because of work/transport etc. 

Is this universally adopted practice now?


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## Shay (26 October 2017)

We certainly only send cards to subscribers - and if you publicize it or send it on then you will be taken off the list.  But if you are known to the hunt you can always ring and ask.  If you have to plan well in advance try speaking to the secretaries now.  The cards will be finalized -opening meet is in a few days for most.  They can tell you if there is a meet on or near your proposed days so you can plan.

It is annoying but sadly there are those who seek to disrupt a lawful activity and / or commit  a breach of the peace.  Monitoring the hunt for legal compliance I have absolutely not issue with.  But not balaclava wearing yobs shouting abuse, striking horses, damaging property etc.  The "business end", such as there is, is up the front with the hounds.  Not with the field, the foot followers or worse the field's vehicles.  Those that come out with us seem to treat is as an opportunity to have a running battle with the Police who are generous enough to attend for our safety.

Sorry - small rant there.  If there were balaclava wearing people rampaging all over the local golf course shouting abuse at the players I suspect more would be done....

Spare a thought for the Master's and Secretaries trying to keep a sport functional and within the law.  Sometimes it requires a bit of effort on both sides.


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## angrybird1 (26 October 2017)

Trouble is people who have horses but don't hunt don't get notice of when the hunt is in the area.
This can lead to disruption and can be dangerous.
At least if you get notice you can decide to have horses in or out depending on what's best for your horse.
Some horses get very upset when the hunt in the area.


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## ester (26 October 2017)

As an occasional follower (limited by age of horse, and lack of transport) I have never had a problem obtaining a meet card after speaking the secretary so they have obviously been happy with my intentions, the first one I had a member who knew me so I could tell them that, the second I knew no one so I guess I must have just sounded ok? I don't think it does hunts much good to be too closed shop about meets as how will they ever encourage new subscribers then?

We also get a meet card for our local hunt at home, and notified of any changes as we have one that we usually give some sedalin to if we know they are about. Granted neither hunt had as much of a sab issue as others do. 

If I were to not get a card, and to ring the hon sec as a visitor (because I could only get to meets I could hack to) I'd be asking them to go through half the meet card and writing it down anyway.


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## Tiddlypom (26 October 2017)

My local pack has become very secret squirrel. I don't think they have antis, but they do now have monitors. 

Trouble is, it royally p1sses off the local horse and livestock owners when the hunt turn up without warning. So they are turning formerly pro hunt locals against them. It must be pretty embarrassing for the field to get yelled at by fraught horse owners trying to grab their animals in.

I still have up to now been getting a meet card, mainly because I am prepared to make a right PITA of myself if I don't. I always bring the horses in when the hunt is likely to be around, and they don't get a peep out of me as long as I know in advance. Otherwise, I kick off loudly (I have had a fair few issues with them in the past).


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## frankster (26 October 2017)

I do understand the very valid reasons but it is just difficult when your are juggling horse/transport/shift work to get a few days in. This, in my experience, will have a limiting effect on the members of the field because only knowing a week ahead makes it impossible to go.  

Have to say a couple of smaller local landowners have made negative remarks, a card at least gives them notice of a possible disturbance to stock.

Of course, I'll still go out as I'll pop into kennels every week! Another PITA.


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## ihatework (26 October 2017)

Well I'm bang smack in the middle of big hunt country, who are well monitored.
I'm not particularly pro hunt but to give them their due they actually publish their meets on their website. We do get disrupted by the hunt, most Saturdays through the season, but at least they are open about where they are heading.


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## Tiddlypom (26 October 2017)

Ihw, IMHO too that's how it should be, with meets published up front. I don't understand why hunts should be nervous of being monitored, unless they have something to hide. In fact, they should welcome monitors, to show that they are adhering to the law.


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## iknowmyvalue (26 October 2017)

Our hunt has an email distribution list for all news and meet cards, which you can contact the hon secretary to request to be added to. I don't know anyone who has been turned down. Though everyone I know who has asked has been genuine, and has previously been out with the hunt with a friend. Our local bloodhound pack publish the meets on their website.


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## angrybird1 (26 October 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Ihw, IMHO too that's how it should be, with meets published up front. I don't understand why hunts should be nervous of being monitored, unless they have something to hide. In fact, they should welcome monitors, to show that they are adhering to the law.
		
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Exactly.   Trouble is I don't think they do adhere to the rules.


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## Shay (26 October 2017)

No hunt is - or should be - nervous about being monitored.  Absolutely not.  The problem is that what is being badged as monitoring for legal compliance actually amounts to harassing the mounted field and from time to time trespass and criminal damage.  Legal compliance sits with the huntsman and the whip at the front.  Not the kids at the back.

We're a relative urban hunt so it isn't really possible for us to show up unexpectedly.  We have permission for every piece of land we cross and check with landowners again in the days before the meet as well as immediately afterward.  We do occasionally have livery yards or folk with horses at home who might get surprised by us on the road - all they have to do is let us know their postcode and we'll alert them the week before when the hunt is in their area so they can take whatever steps they need.

In terms of juggling transport shifts etc - just call the secretary.  They'll happily tell you when the meets are.

It is a difficult line to walk.  Hunts all do the best they can.


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## ester (26 October 2017)

I'm struggling to understand the difference between ringing the secretary and writing down the meets from a phonecall and having a  meet card?


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## frankster (26 October 2017)

Shay said:



			No hunt is - or should be - nervous about being monitored.  Absolutely not.  The problem is that what is being badged as monitoring for legal compliance actually amounts to harassing the mounted field and from time to time trespass and criminal damage.  Legal compliance sits with the huntsman and the whip at the front.  Not the kids at the back.

We're a relative urban hunt so it isn't really possible for us to show up unexpectedly.  We have permission for every piece of land we cross and check with landowners again in the days before the meet as well as immediately afterward.  We do occasionally have livery yards or folk with horses at home who might get surprised by us on the road - all they have to do is let us know their postcode and we'll alert them the week before when the hunt is in their area so they can take whatever steps they need.

In terms of juggling transport shifts etc - just call the secretary.  They'll happily tell you when the meets are.

It is a difficult line to walk.  Hunts all do the best they can.
		
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This is our problem, Hon Secs can only give a couple o days notice - ****** all useful to those of us with commitments..


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## spacefaer (26 October 2017)

If you are a landowner or farmer, the master of the hunt will go round the area a few days before and "card" you - ie let you know that the hunt is in the area. It is impossible to card every single owner of every small patch of land, so some horse owners will get missed out, but the likelihood is that if the hunt was around on  a particular date last season, they are likely to be around at the same time this season. Most packs have a very similar order of meet locations from one year to the next. 

Knowing where your local hunt is going to be between now and Christmas is a simple matter with most packs of ringing the Hon Sec and having a friendly chat. If you are likely to want to go to particular locations or on specific dates, then just ask!

One of my local packs has the meet card on a secure page on their website - password protected - which goes until the New Year, and another has an email system, where subscribers and followers get notifications.

It's not hard to get hold of meets - you just have to ask nicely!


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## Tiddlypom (26 October 2017)

Sorry, Spacefaer, but the attitude that it is impossible to card every landowner so that some horse owners will be missed is simply not good enough. I had words with a master who said he couldn't be expected to notify everyone with 'an acre and a pony'. Well, he could, if only he got organised. 

We used to have a brilliant local hunt supporter who made it her business to welcome all new people moving into the area, and enquire if they wished to receive a meet card. Plus she would phone round all of us a few days before hounds were expected.  However, she got so demoralised after repeatedly being kept out of the loop by the relevant joint master that she gave it up in the end.

Asking 'nicely' round here gets you nowhere now, unless you are in the inner circle.


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## Orangehorse (27 October 2017)

We are landowners and I get a meet card.  Good thing too, I would be miffed if we didn't.


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## Shay (28 October 2017)

Frankster - I'm sorry your secretaries can only give such short notice.  I wonder if that is a local issue.  In practical terms it simply isn't possible to organize a meet with only a few days notice - plus you have to have a meet card for the subscribers.  As I have said before it is a very fine line to walk and hunts are forced into this position by the illegal activities of others.  Trail hunting is completely legal.  We should not have to hide on the margins.  Nor are we afraid of fair and proper monitoring for legal compliance.  Its the harassment and intimidation which some alleged monitors perpetrate.  Hunts would not encourage any followers at all if every time they were verbally abused, photographed, obstructed and placed in fear.  We've had horses struck - both with whips and deliberately hit with vehicles.  Hounds injured.  Vehicles damaged.  Landowners and associated businesses harassed, simply for their association with a perfectly legal activity.

In any hobby, pursuit or even profession there are those whose actions give others a bad reputation.  That is I am sure as true of hunts as of those who oppose hunting.  It is a pity that the unlawful actions of a minority (on both sides!) are allowed to taint everyone else.  And the unintended outcome of that is this difficulty with announcing dates etc in advance.


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## ester (28 October 2017)

But why should there be an issue announcing dates to members of your supporters club who have hunted with you before? It isn't like announcing dates to an unknown quantity?


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## frankster (28 October 2017)

ester - exactly!


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## Tiddlypom (28 October 2017)

That's nuts, Frankster. It hardly encourages people to have a few days out per season if it's so much hassle even for a supporters club member to find out dates. It's how to kill interest from potential new followers.

I remember now the details of the new restrictions introduced here last year on landowners getting meet cards. A master told me that I must join the supporters club to continue to receive one. For which presumably an annual subscription is due, though I didn't get as far as enquiring the cost.

I rather firmly indicated that after 30 years of living here and being carded for free, I was most definitely not going to join a support group for this pack, and I still expect the meet card to still be given. Tbh, hunt days here are a complete pain in the butt, and we go on lockdown. To additionally be expected to pay for the privilege of knowing in advance when the hunt is around was taking the piss.

Hunts are their own worst enemies sometimes.


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## ester (28 October 2017)

I think I would be writing to say that unfortunately due to their new unworkable system you will be forced to find alternative hunting this year.


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## JDH01 (28 October 2017)

Our supporters club is very effective, you are a member if you subscribe and can just be a supporter if you pay £25 min.  Only pic up will you get a meet card. Visitors are welcome but at a set fee.  We welcome visitors but do check people out as those holding meets don't want agro.  This has happened to bloodhound packs as well as draghounds


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## Velcrobum (30 October 2017)

I own land and have horses, it is not used as bounded by a very very busy A road, however the local bridle paths do get used. I used to get a card but both local hunts are very secret squirrel. 1 hunt I have in the past trained with one of the MFH's but can I get info from the secretary big fat no. All I want to know is if they are in the area so I can keep the horses in. I have asked very nicely. The second hunt is much less of a problem as due to said busy A road I very rarely venture across it so don't enter their area.

An addition the hunt has gone so secret squirrel that there is no contact number on the website anymore.


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## frankster (30 October 2017)

From comments here, it almost sounds as if the Antis have won to some extent.....

So frustrating.


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## Tiddlypom (30 October 2017)

Velcrobum, some years ago I informed the secretary of my local pack, in writing, that I will be charging any vet's fees resulting from injuries sustained by my horses due to an unnotified appearance by the hunt, directly to the hunt. I was forced into doing this after yet another unexpected but clearly preplanned appearance, which sent my in foal mare into complete hysterics in the field. Not even the local tenant farmers whose land the hunt were crossing had been notified that day, either. 

They don't come on my 7 acres, but they do go immediately adjacent to it on 3 sides. Tbh, the mounted field and hounds aren't as much hassle as the huge travelling circus of vehicles which this pack seems to attract, and which stuff up the local roads. Why on earth do they need so many quad bikes??


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## Velcrobum (30 October 2017)

My main concern is meeting the hunt when hacking on the bridlepaths either on the youngster or my old boy who suffered a bad tendon injury and who we don't want leaping about (he has a huge all 4 legs off the ground bronc when excited). Fortunately we are slightly protected as the paddocks are next to the road our house and next door are between them and land the hunt uses. Short of going to the kennels there is no way of contacting them even for fallen stock unless you know the numbers already. We also have sheep so periodically I have to visit to dump a carcase even then there is usually no one around. Just go to the flesh shed fill in the book take my copy and dump the dead sheep. Its interesting that all the hunt servants ie secretary, MFH's etc social media platforms have not been used since 2012 was being very nosy to see the depths of the secret squirreliness................


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## GirlFriday (31 October 2017)

frankster said:



			From comments here, it almost sounds as if the Antis have won to some extent.....

So frustrating.
		
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Legally they are supposed to have though, or at least to the extent that the act goes.

I'd suggest it is more that the hunts have won by virtue of so very many of them breaking what was anyway a pretty weak law.

It is somewhat like the teenagers who smoke pot in odd little corners near where I live. Basically a mildly harmful, but a bit 'first world problem', activity done somewhat (but arguably not enough given the public nuisance both cause) shadily. They know the law abiding public know they're not, but they also know the law in unlikely to be enforced very heavily.

I think both are possibly somewhat more of a problem in that they lead to a general disrespect for the law than for the sake of the activities themselves. But that being said I'd much rather occasionally tell a slightly stoned teen they had better move further from my dog walk than ask the same of a hunt... Which says a lot about the lack of respect that is being shown to neighbours here really...

ETA: obviously not commenting on those hunts complying with both spirit and letter of the law - just those who are not and/or are letting their recreation (very few followres required for pest control...) spoil other's enjoyment


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## DD (6 November 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Ihw, IMHO too that's how it should be, with meets published up front. I don't understand why hunts should be nervous of being monitored, unless they have something to hide. In fact, they should welcome monitors, to show that they are adhering to the law.
		
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quite right but its the yobs and balaclava thugs who arrive to cause trouble and disrupt a lawful activity that hunts are trying avoid.


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## Tiddlypom (8 November 2017)

Downton Dame said:



			quite right but its the yobs and balaclava thugs who arrive to cause trouble and disrupt a lawful activity that hunts are trying avoid.
		
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It is important to distinguish between 'Hunt Monitors', who observe the hunt and do not disrupt proceedings, and 'Hunt Saboteurs', who actively disrupt and agitate against the hunt. 
No law abiding hunt should be worried by the former, whilst the latter are simply spoiling for a scrap.
It appears that one pack has today killed a fox right in front of the hunt monitors. Whilst I have no first hand knowledge of the incident, it is all over Facebook. As it happens, this pack is the one in which I had my most recent experience of pre ban hunting.
If I was to go trail hunting these days, post ban, I would expect the hunt to indeed 'trail hunt', so as to obey the law.


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## electric_circus (20 November 2017)

I have given up on trying to go out with my local hunt - after repeated efforts to get a meet card, or even just find out when the two meets local to me were taking place, I had no success and simply gave up in the end.  It was not for want of trying; I phoned, I emailed, I messaged on FB... I get that they may be worried about sab activity, but if that is the justification, as a relative newcomer to this area with no hunting horsey contacts it was impossible and they may like to think about how new potential subscribers are supposed to be able to get involved..!  I hunted where I lived before and told them the packs I went out with, in case that was the issue.  I go out with the local bloodhound packs now instead.  Of course it isn't the same, but the cap is half the price, there's plenty of jumping, meet cards are openly available and they make newcomers feel welcome.


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## onliner (21 November 2017)

Good thing too, I would be miffed if we didn't.


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## L&M (21 November 2017)

One of the packs we hunt with is no longer issuing meet cards at all, not even to subscribers. This is all due to an anti from a newly formed sab organisation coming out at OM.

However as op said, we buy an 8 day pack and like to plan our meets in advance, and have to consider work commitments etc. This luxury has been taken away from us and is extremely frustrating as there are certain meets we want to 'save' days for.

The Hon sec is emailing meets each fortnight which is a slight help but still gives us no indication of future meets.

I do not understand why subscribers should not be trusted with a meet card - fair enough not to issue it to any tom, dick and harry, but surely people who have paid a good chunk of their hard earned cash should be afforded the priviledge? 

Frankly I find it patronising -  after all in our country an anti only has to walk into a local rural pub to find out meet information!!!


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## Fiagai (1 December 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Ihw, IMHO too that's how it should be, with meets published up front. I don't understand why hunts should be nervous of being monitored, unless they have something to hide. In fact, they should welcome monitors, to show that they are adhering to the law.
		
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You don't understand "why hunts should be nervous of being monitored" Seriously?

The fact that  'monitor' and 'Anti' has become for all purposes an inseparable term

There is no basis in law for any private citizen or recreational  group to submit to being policed by what is in effect a vigilante type movement 

There is no basis ditto for being watched by a group of people who are not vetted or given leave to do so. 

That it is unacceptable that any such individuals or group should  fail to follow normal civil procedures with regard to the fact that the determination of whether something is lawfull or otherwise is soley determined by the Police and judicial  authorities  

That many 'monitors' may be in breach of the law though trespassing etc in carrying out such activities

That people are allowed to go about their normal business and daily activities with a presumption of innocence 

That is just some of the reasons which I  can shortlist in relation to the activities of such self appointed 'monitors' 

Do you have anything "to hide" with regard to your private life that others should monitor? No? Why is that? Can you prove that?


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## Tiddlypom (1 December 2017)

Fiagai, I refer you to two posts from an earlier thread in Tack Room.



Tiddlypom said:



			The new breed of hunt monitors are savvy. They video and photograph from areas where they are not trespassing like the road or a right of way. They do not interfere with or harrass the hunt, they simply collect photographic and video material which could be used as evidence if needed. They are nothing like the hunt sabs who do indeed do all sorts of illegal, violent and unpleasant things.

If a particular hunt is trail hunting legally, why on earth would they be afraid of being monitored? You'd think they'd welcome the chance to demonstrate they are indeed 'trail hunting' and not setting out to hunt as per pre ban. 

Maybe this is a simplistic and naive view :rolleyes3:.

ETA I believe that monitors do not mask themselves. More brownie points for them.
		
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Cecile said:



			I once by chance came across a monitor's website, they are so well organised its quite unbelievable,
it was all about the law regarding PRoW etc <written for them by lawyers> what they can and cannot do,
how to go about gaining useful footage, its was quite fascinating how well briefed they were, even who to contact and what to do if you were arrested
		
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Being monitored is maybe uncomfortable for some, but if day in, day out all it proves is that hunts are hunting a trail and not a live scent, then surely the monitors will get pretty bored and will realise that there is nothing illegal going on?

ETA. Wrt to the original topic, I haven't been given a full meet card this season but I have been told which dates the hunt is or may be expected round here. At least I will know when to keep the horses in (and when to guard the grass verge!).


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## PapaverFollis (1 December 2017)

Completely irrelevant but every time this thread catches my eye I think someone is introducing their new horse... who goes by the name of Cards. :lol:

Sorry, as you were.


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## Fiagai (1 December 2017)

TP - yes I saw those posts. However they do not answer the points laid out as to why the actions of monitors/Antis remain unacceptable behaviour in a democratic society.

There is no rationale for any self selected  group of citizens to set themselves up to monitor and by their actions effectively harass another group of citizens. It may happen elsewhere - that does not make it acceptable in this country. 

By definition the actions of monitors/antis is harassment in that they persistently follow, watch and / or pester groups who are legally allowed to get together to persue what is in in effect a legal pastime. 

If anyone individual believes a law has been broken - and they they are concerned - they should contact the relevant authorities. 

It concerns me deeply that anyone would seek to rationalise the behaviour of such groups. I believe we should all be concerned. I have looked into a number of these groups  and much of the founding philosophy  appears to come from an extreme animal rights position.

I find hunt 'monitoring' a thin edge of the wedge. Dig deep and you will find a much wider movement against the use and ownership of animals whether that is farming or pet ownership. 

And yes that includes the ownership and use of horses. Would you be ok with an organised group parked outside your premises on a 24/7 basis 'monitoring" your use and care of horses because you 'might' break the law and therefore evidence could be gatherered so that you could be prosecuted? 

No? Well the future may not be too far from that. Be careful what you wish for.


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## Goldenstar (1 December 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Sorry, Spacefaer, but the attitude that it is impossible to card every landowner so that some horse owners will be missed is simply not good enough. I had words with a master who said he couldn't be expected to notify everyone with 'an acre and a pony'. Well, he could, if only he got organised. IIts 

We used to have a brilliant local hunt supporter who made it her business to welcome all new people moving into the area, and enquire if they wished to receive a meet card. Plus she would phone round all of us a few days before hounds were expected.  However, she got so demoralised after repeatedly being kept out of the loop by the relevant joint master that she gave it up in the end.

Asking 'nicely' round here gets you nowhere now, unless you are in the inner circle.
		
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This simply not the case I let horse owners in this bit of the hunts area when the hunts coming here .
The farmers get a card so those with livery know in advance and I text the smaller places where people are keeping horses at home  .
Anyone who wants a text only has to ask .


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## Tiddlypom (1 December 2017)

GS, that's how it should be done. It's fairly straightforward to cascade out the information so that it reaches the little people. However, that no longer happens hereabouts. I daren't pass on any info re meets to neighbours in case I no longer get notified myself .

Fiagai, there's always been the weird animal rights protesters who don't want people own any animal as a pet. We will have to disagree about most 'monitors' coming under that category, though. From what I understand, most would be delighted if all hunts changed from trail to drag hunting.


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## Kat (1 December 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Fiagai, there's always been the weird animal rights protesters who don't want people own any animal as a pet. We will have to disagree about most 'monitors' coming under that category, though. From what I understand, most would be delighted if all hunts changed from trail to drag hunting.
		
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So why do bloodhound packs get abuse then?


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## Tiddlypom (1 December 2017)

Abuse from hunt sabs, not from hunt monitors, I presume? Sabs/monitors are as different from each other as trail hunting is from drag hunting, though plenty of folk seem to get muddled with both categories :rolleyes3:.

Sabs have been about for donkey's years, they used to bus them out from Exeter University back when I was hunting in Devon in the 70s.


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## popsdosh (1 December 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Abuse from hunt sabs, not from hunt monitors, I presume? Sabs/monitors are as different from each other as trail hunting is from drag hunting, though plenty of folk seem to get muddled with both categories :rolleyes3:.

Sabs have been about for donkey's years, they used to bus them out from Exeter University back when I was hunting in Devon in the 70s.
		
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They are on the whole the same people at least in this part of the world all the monitors come from previously known sabbing groups. Hunt monitor just sounds a bit more acceptable they themselves must still operate within the law including civil laws which the police wont have anything to do with including filming people on private land. Their actions in any other situation would usually end up in arrest because the general public would not accept the intrusion.


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## Fiagai (2 December 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			...
Fiagai, there's always been the weird animal rights protesters who don't want people own any animal as a pet. We will have to disagree about most 'monitors' coming under that category, though. From what I understand, most would be delighted if all hunts changed from trail to drag hunting.
		
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TP - you stated that you didnt understand _"why hunts should be nervous of being monitored"_  and in reply I detailed why many people who hunt would indeed be uncomfortable  being 'monitored' by individuals or groups  whose are at best unvetted and have no bona fides to undertake any such self appointed role of 'monitoring' others who participate in what is in fact the legal activity of trail hunting. 

In my experience 'monitors' share much the same space as  'Antis' and as other posters here have detailed many are indistinguishable from Sabs.

Of note  -  I did not specify that 'most' monitors were 'weird animal rights protestors'. What I did say was extreme animal rights beliefs appear to  underpin the philosophy of many of these groups. Go online and track the names/ profiles of many of those involved setting and running such groups and you will see the same individuals repeatedly to the fore.

Personally I seriously doubt that  monitor groups truly wish for a universal move to drag hunting. What I have observed is an evident objective of discrediting all forms of hunting (this despite very low rates of prosecutions under the Hunting Act)

As I stated - such attacks on hunting appear to form the thin edge of the wedge with repeated calls for all forms of hunting on horseback to be banned.

Clear the ground with regard to public opinion on hunting and whatever the next extreme animal rights objective becomes more achievable.


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## Frumpoon (29 December 2017)

Our 2 biggest local hunts have completely closed the books to new supporters

I've made enquiries to no avail so I can only assume they are flying under the radar of the ban and hunting illegally

I'm moving onto bloodhounding for the ease of planning in advance and so on


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## Fiagai (29 December 2017)

Frumpoon said:



			Our 2 biggest local hunts have completely closed the books to new supporters

I've made enquiries to no avail so I can only assume they are flying under the radar of the ban and hunting illegally

I'm moving onto bloodhounding for the ease of planning in advance and so on
		
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I don't believe you can make that assumption. The increased activity of anti and sab groups and the anti-social activity that such groups entail  now means that many hunts are having to be ultra careful as to their normal and - I mean hunting within the law - activities.  I dont know the hunts to which you refer - my only advice would be to seek a personal recommendation by way of introduction. Best of luck.


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## Frumpoon (29 December 2017)

Both my vet and farrier hunt with one

When I asked quietly if there was a kill it was denied but my previous invitations dried up after that


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## Fiagai (29 December 2017)

Frumpoon said:



			Both my vet and farrier hunt with one
When I asked quietly if there was a kill it was denied but my previous invitations dried up after that
		
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Perhaps that overt enquiry was enough to cause some concern that you were digging?

Remember you said previously 



Frumpoon said:



			Our 2 biggest local hunts have completely closed the books to new supporters
I've made enquiries to no avail so I can only assume they are flying under the radar of the ban and hunting illegally
I'm moving onto bloodhounding for the ease of planning in advance and so on
		
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Do you believe every hunt which you approach and do not get a positive response from - is up to nefarious activities lol?


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## Frumpoon (30 December 2017)

Probably yes


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## Tiddlypom (12 February 2018)

There's an interesting article in the current edition of H&H about meet cards. Wonder if the writer was prompted to cover the topic by this thread ! Apologies if the print comes up small.


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## Manricko (14 March 2018)

Tiddlypom said:



			There's an interesting article in the current edition of H&H about meet cards. Wonder if the writer was prompted to cover the topic by this thread ! Apologies if the print comes up small.
		
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It's all right! Thanks for sharing.


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## Tiddlypom (20 November 2018)

I know that I'm bumping up an old thread, but after Saturday's antics, I feel even more strongly that hunt meet details should be readily available for all to know. Currently both the hunt and the antis seem to know exactly when/where the meets are taking place, but the poor neutral sods living in the countryside don't, and can't prepare for the chaos to come.

I was told of the meet a day in advance (I am a slightly special case) so I knew to get the horses in and to go into lockdown as usual. However, I daren't tip anyone else off, in case I get blacklisted.

Saturday was awful. It's the first time there have been sabs here. They seemed to target just about anybody, whether or not they had anything to do with the hunt. It was damn scary.



Tiddlypom said:



			Ahh, not quite...

You were wise to go home. The same pack (I'm guessing) fetched up here after midday, complete with several car loads of balaclava wearing sabs right onto them. It all got very heated and there was lots of shouting, though I think it fell short of actual fisticuffs. At least 3 police cars turned up.  A car load of sabs got lost and ran through a friend's  garden while she was at home, which was alarming, as she knew nothing about the hunt and hadn't got a clue what all these balaclava wearing people were doing in her garden.

It's the first time I've seen any sabs anywhere. Scary.
		
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Tiddlypom said:



			She's making light of it, but it was horrible at the time. They made off before she could call the police. She's nothing at all to do with the hunt.
		
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Tiddlypom said:



			Indeed.

These are a couple of brief videos from a pro hunt fb page of the same group of sabs elsewhere on the same day. That's their black discovery in the background. The two lead aggressors are bare faced, the rest wore balaclavas. No wonder my friend was scared. This is all very close to where I live, ride and walk the dog.




__ https://www.facebook.com/127375934565341/posts/261629174473349






__ https://www.facebook.com/127375934565341/posts/261656731137260



This sort of thing is normally posted on the hunting board, but IMHO it's relevant as it spilled over into normal daily life for neutral folk here in the countryside. I believe that later on fighting did break out between pros and antis, and people were taken to hospital.

The fact that the whipper in from the same pack had been filmed in close up two days beforehand on a hunting day in woodland putting the corpse of a recently dead fox into a black bin bag didn't help to calm the situation.
		
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Now you might say that having sabs out means it's all the more important to keep the dates secret. Yeah, great, so us poor sods who live here can venture out unwittingly into a war zone. This was NOT a day to be out for a walk or a hack, or otherwise to be enjoying the countryside. Local folk didn't even feel safe at home.

Advance warning is needed for all. As I said in the earlier thread, if you've nothing to hide, why would you mind being monitored? Though Saturday's sabs were just out for a fight.


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## Fred66 (21 November 2018)

Tiddlypom said:



			Advance warning is needed for all. As I said in the earlier thread, if you've nothing to hide, why would you mind being monitored? Though Saturday's sabs were just out for a fight.
		
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Because more and more monitors/sabs are coming out and harassing and threatening people partaking, people hosting and even people with no actual links just perceived ones.

Historically pubs have frequently hosted meets and they are no finding their business trashed on social media, as are any hosts whose business is identifiable from their name. Quite often hosts and land owners are now asking the hunts not to publish meets or to make it secure in order to reduce the likelihood of this harassment.

Some pony clubs and their committees have found themselves targeted by hunt monitors/sabs despite the only link to the hunt being through an historic naming of the branch.

You say people shouldn't mind being monitored if they are doing nothing wrong, so you wouldn't mind if someone followed you round ?

Say you go to the butchers and it is picketed by a group of vegans campaigning to stop eating meat. They take it further, they call you a murderer, they follow you out of the butchers to your home, they find out your name, they post it all over social media, they bad mouth your business, you have your young children with you. How long before you stop frequenting that butcher ? 

So you really wonder why hunts are being secretive about meets and controlling who gets the meet cards ?


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## DiNozzo (21 November 2018)

Fred66 said:



			Because more and more monitors/sabs are coming out and harassing and threatening people partaking, people hosting and even people with no actual links just perceived ones.

Historically pubs have frequently hosted meets and they are no finding their business trashed on social media, as are any hosts whose business is identifiable from their name. Quite often hosts and land owners are now asking the hunts not to publish meets or to make it secure in order to reduce the likelihood of this harassment.

Some pony clubs and their committees have found themselves targeted by hunt monitors/sabs despite the only link to the hunt being through an historic naming of the branch.

You say people shouldn't mind being monitored if they are doing nothing wrong, so you wouldn't mind if someone followed you round ?

Say you go to the butchers and it is picketed by a group of vegans campaigning to stop eating meat. They take it further, they call you a murderer, they follow you out of the butchers to your home, they find out your name, they post it all over social media, they bad mouth your business, you have your young children with you. How long before you stop frequenting that butcher ?

So you really wonder why hunts are being secretive about meets and controlling who gets the meet cards ?
		
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I think Tiddlypom's point is that those people who hunt put themselves at risk of their behaviour, those who live on neighbouring land, don't. 

I agree Tiddlypom, that they _should _be published. It isn't fair for those not involved to be dragged into it without any warning, and as above, it's happening more and more frequently.


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## Tiddlypom (21 November 2018)

Thank you, DiNozzo, that's exactly what I mean.

The antis already know when the meets are on, quite how they get their info I don't know. It's just most of us non hunt connected country dwellers who don't. One set of neighbours was stranded on Saturday out in a field opposite us whilst walking their dogs, caught in between the hunt and the antis. They were rescued by other neighbours who took them in. I'm sure that they would not have chosen to walk their dogs then if they knew the hunt was coming.

The video of the dead fox being bagged up and carried off by the whipper in was always going to be inflammatory. I did wonder if there would be some bother as a result on Saturday. There certainly was, as my innocent friends and neighbours found out for themselves.


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## Fred66 (22 November 2018)

Tiddlypom said:



			Thank you, DiNozzo, that's exactly what I mean.

The antis already know when the meets are on, quite how they get their info I don't know. It's just most of us non hunt connected country dwellers who don't. One set of neighbours was stranded on Saturday out in a field opposite us whilst walking their dogs, caught in between the hunt and the antis. They were rescued by other neighbours who took them in. I'm sure that they would not have chosen to walk their dogs then if they knew the hunt was coming.

The video of the dead fox being bagged up and carried off by the whipper in was always going to be inflammatory. I did wonder if there would be some bother as a result on Saturday. There certainly was, as my innocent friends and neighbours found out for themselves.
		
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But the only way of trying to mitigate against the antis finding out is by restricting the issue of meet cards. 

By issuing meet cards to anyone who asks or who lives in the location the information is not controlled and the probability of sabs/monitors finding out is increased. Obviously the landowners whose land they are going over will know as they will have given permission, so if your hunt isn't communicating meet dates but you have neighbours who allow hunting over their land then maybe ask them to let you know ?

It is not ideal but you can't really blame them


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## ihatework (22 November 2018)

Fred66 said:



			But the only way of trying to mitigate against the antis finding out is by restricting the issue of meet cards.

By issuing meet cards to anyone who asks or who lives in the location the information is not controlled and the probability of sabs/monitors finding out is increased. Obviously the landowners whose land they are going over will know as they will have given permission, so if your hunt isn't communicating meet dates but you have neighbours who allow hunting over their land then maybe ask them to let you know ?

It is not ideal but you can't really blame them
		
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I completely disagree. 

Hunt monitors will always find a way to be out, the more secretive the hunts are, in my mind, the more it looks like they have something to hide.

Iâ€™m hunting neutral. I donâ€™t particularly object to the act of hunting but can fully appreciate the chaos/inconvenience hunts cause locally. They may for the most part be on private land but they do also block up public roads and bridleways quite frequently.

Itâ€™s only common manners to enable local folk to easily find out when & where hunts will be meeting. Why should local residents be put in a situation where they are in fear for their safety when it could be easily avoided.

FWIW, my local (very big, well known and dare I say it, pretty arrogant) hunt publish their meets on their website.


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## Tiddlypom (22 November 2018)

I don't directly know of which pack ihw is referring to, but I thought, let's think of a very posh pack and look them up.

Bingo. I doubt that you can get much posher than the Duke of Beaufort's Hunt, and they do indeed publish their meets on their website.

http://www.beauforthunt.com/

Along with the following blurb:-

*The Beaufort Hunt, along with other hunts, have changed their rules to state:*



That we intend to carry out only legal activities.
Farmers, Subscribers, Members and Followers have been informed to this effect.
Along with other hunts, we regard this as a temporary ban.
We will continue to campaign to prove that this ban is detrimental to animal welfare.
The Beaufort will continue to raise funds to pay for legal challenges.
We will continue to work towards maintaining employment both within the Hunt as well as related trades.
The Beaufort Hunt intends to maintain a workable pack of hounds to keep the Beaufort bloodlines that are renowned across the United Kingdom and indeed worldwide.
We are determined to keep our community together.
We will continue to raise funds for local charities.
So if the Beaufort are happy to publicise their meets in advance, why aren't other packs?

ETA They also usefully publicise where the location of the second horses changeover is. This means that you can work out the general direction in which the hunt will be travelling on the day.


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## Tiddlypom (23 November 2018)

It gets more bonkers.

Today, being a Friday, is not a day on which my local pack usually hunts, barring odd times around Christmas and New Year depending on Bank Holiday dates. I laughingly said to OH as we set off walking the dog this morning 'Well, at least we won't bump into the hunt today!' Then a strange horsebox passes us on the lane at around 10.30am. I told myself not to get paranoid, there's plenty of other reasons for strange horseboxes to be on the road.

Well, it WAS the local hunt, who met in the next village today. This village is one which we often walk in, and (if I can get my mare sound/fit enough), is on my favourite hacking route. Not having access to a full meet card means I don't know if this was a scheduled meet or an extra of some sort.

I really don't want to ride or walk into the path of the hunt, so why make it so damn difficult for me to avoid it? ETA, and if the info on their website is correct, the monitors were out again. Changing the day didn't shake them off, did it.


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## L&M (24 November 2018)

One of our local packs that we like to buy 8 days with are not giving out a meet card either. They send an email with the meets for the coming fortnight instead now. 

We have decided not to subscribe because of this - we have to organise our mid week hunting around work commitments/take days holiday, and want to attend certain meets, which we can't do without a meet card. 

I have written to both the Hunt Sec and Chairman to ask if we could be allowed one, and have not even had a response, which makes me feel like they don't want our subscription anyhow. I also agree with whoever made the comment that the 'anti's are winning' as this pack has just lost 2 subscribers.

Interestingly from what I have seen of their meets on social media, the fields are getting smaller, so maybe we are not the only ones who are voting with their feet.

There are many ways around the meet card issue, such as secure websites with passwords, and think it is very sad that people who are well known to the hunt, (this pack used to hunt my land!), are deemed not trustworthy enough to have a meet card.


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## Tiddlypom (6 December 2018)

And again. Isn't it wonderful when the only way you can find out where the hunt met is by looking at the photos afterwards on the antis FB pages . I did suspect that there would be a meet nearby as historically there usually is one on that date, but I wasn't officially told.

It was less than 2 miles away. The antis are claiming that there were 9 police cars, a riot van and a police helicopter in attendance. Plus a dead fox. I only saw 2 police cars and the helicopter, which was circling for ages (how much did THAT cost?).

Now if the hunt want to go out and kill a fox in front of the antis then I can't stop you, but please warn us locals properly in advance so that we can keep out of your way. The Beaufort publish their meets in advance...


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## Tiddlypom (12 December 2018)

I was too damn right when I posted above that the hunt met less than two miles away from me last week. Allegedly they weren't coming this way. Closer inspection of an anti group's video showed that they came within 0.5 miles of home, on a quiet lane where I had been walking my elderly dog less than an hour beforehand. It's also a regular hacking route.

Just keep us all informed, you hunting lot, and stick to the trail hunting rules. If you can p1ss me off to the degree that you have, with me having hunted so much in the past, just think what you're doing to those who already dislike hunts and hunting.


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## Tiddlypom (23 December 2018)

And yesterday they came within 1.5 miles of here, maybe even closer, but that's where son no 1 saw them when he was out on a bike ride. No notification.

This pic also claiming to be from yesterday and shown on an anti's page shows hounds running along the main A49 road about 3 miles from here. The A49 in Cheshire is the 9th most dangerous road on Britain. This is insane. Now, I'm sure that the pro hunts and the anti hunt version of how this came to happen will differ markedly, but it was madness.




This is all ramping up and IMHO is going to end up with fatalities. All the more reason for us locals to be notified of when to keep our animals in and our heads down.


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## whiteflower (23 December 2018)

You would think they would want to keep the local country/horsey folk on side with the amount of opposition they get from anti's. I'm neither for/against and have hunted in the past but with the attitude today of being so disrespectful to the locals in the communities they ride through its put me off being part of it anymore. We don't get informed and have no way of finding out either as local landowners with horses


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