# Can a "normal" car pull a two horse trailer?



## FinkleyAlex (4 November 2007)

My dad and I were just pondering over this, we have a 200 vauxhall vectra 2.2 (diesal) and would be pulling a standard 2 horse ifor williams type trailer. The manual says the car can tow upto 1500 kg, we would only have one pony in the back - a 14.2 PBA fairly lightweight - assume he weights about 400kg (although he would be properly weighed if we became serious about this) and a couple of haynets in the back, the trailer itself weighs aound 910kg, would it be dangerous to consider this? (we dont have a trailer this is all hypothetical)


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## Tinkerbee (4 November 2007)

my aunt used to tow with a peugeot...erm...summat....was avg. sized...

and it coped ok...but we did once have to unload to get up the hill to the yard lol

not much help i know


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## JM07 (4 November 2007)

i doubt it....


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## Christmas_Kate (4 November 2007)

I wouldnt. Is it an estate? I think the newer estates are much better, and you *can* tow a small pony with one (ie a 12.2hh) but I wouldnt risk it. What would you do about water? and grooming kits etc?


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## PapaFrita (4 November 2007)

Maybe... BUT you have to consider passengers, tack etc in the car as well as the trailer and pony.


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## FinkleyAlex (4 November 2007)

everything else would be carried in the car as there would just be my dad and I, we were quite doubtful but thought we'd look into it, I may ring up vauxhall and ifor williams on monday to see what they think, thanks everyone!


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## apkelly01 (4 November 2007)

I'd a VW Passat, 1.9tdi 130bhp. I pulled two horses (17.1hh and 15.3hh) in a Ivor williams 510 Horsebox and it pulled it fine.


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## Foxyfilly (4 November 2007)

I doubt it would be legal, best to ring and find out first.


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## Christmas_Kate (4 November 2007)

you add the weight of what's In the car to the weight of the trailer i think. 

I know we looked into towing with a Xsara and it looked a bit dubious.


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## catembi (4 November 2007)

Could you look into a single trailer?  That's how we started off.


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## Christmas_Kate (4 November 2007)

Me? that was with a single trailer lol.


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## PennyJ (4 November 2007)

Well, my dad has an old volvo estate 760 2.8l petrol engine, and it is a fabulous tow car, far better than my (also old) LR90 which has the engine before they introduced the 200Tdi engines.  I started to tow with the volvo when we only had 2 little ponies.  the Landrover came a year ago when we got the second big pony.  I prefer to tow with it than the landrover, the volvo has the power to go up hills effortlessly rather than struggling at 20mph.  I will still use it if we're only taking one of the 14.2's rather than both on a long journey.  I don't use it with both as it's rated only to tow 1800kg, but actually I think it's capable of more than that although I'm not prepared to try it with both my big ponies on board.  As the man in the car parts shop said when I went to get new brake pads for it, "you can tow anything with that" and I suspect he is probably right.  Never had any scary problems, I've done some pretty big hills in Wales and also around Bath and Yeovil in it, no troubles whatsoever.

I have an Ifor 505 trailer.

I think the answer may be possibly, with just one pony on board.


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## Fiona_C (4 November 2007)

Ideally you need to take into consideration your kerbside weight which is 85% of the maximum towing capacity.  Personally, I wouldn't risk it, if you got pulled over and spot checked, you could well be overweight!


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## FinkleyAlex (4 November 2007)

single trailer would be brilliant if we were buying, however we are looking to rent so single trailers are fairly rare! Luckily our area is very flat and we would not be doing journeys of longer than an hour, we will ring up both companies on monday to see what they say, would never try it without investigating it properly!


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## Janette (4 November 2007)

You have to consider stopping as well.  My OH who is an ex Truck Driver/owner says to look at 'The Plate' on the car.  It will have the axle weights and VIV number on as well and might be a sticker - not a plate.  That will tell you what you can tow. It might be at the bottom of the inside of the door frame.


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## Ferdinase514 (4 November 2007)

Its all about the kerb weight of the car and not exceeding this with the trailer. Ideally, you shouldnt exceed 85% of the kerb weight.

Have a look at this:
http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/kerbweights.htm

An IW 505 weighs 950kg. A 510 weighs 1000kg.

Unfortunately, i think you will not be able to safely (let alone legally) tow with this car.

You can get very lightweight trailers, designed to be towed by cars - Bateson do one, as do Cheval Liberte. Both weigh around 600kg, but are generally rear unload.


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## Janette (4 November 2007)

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/vin.htm

this tells you where you can work it out.


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## lilym (4 November 2007)

it would pull it, but wether it would stop it is an entirely different matter. we have a vauxhall vectra and wouldn't consider towing the horses with it, we bought a second hand dihatsu fourtrack to do the job instead. cheap insurance and tows like a tank!


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## Selkie (4 November 2007)

I have a Henra it weights 750k and my Scenic 1.9tdi will tow it with one horse in, even through it was within the legal weight limit I  always feel the car struggles to get up hills. My horse doenst travel well and you can feel every time she stamps about.  We now use OH van which will pull 3000k and has loads of room for saddles, changing and everything else I think we could possibly need


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## pottamus (4 November 2007)

I am sorry to be rude but how many times are we going to have people posting about whether they can use a car to tow a trailer with horses or ponies in it!!!!!!!!!!! For lords sake.....NO! It is not safe and has little to do with the engine size or whether the manual says it can tow up to all of 1500kg...you need a 4x4 that has a heavey chassis to offset the weight of the trailer...otherwise you will be looking at a jack knifeing and snaking situation where by the weight of the trailer starts to dictate the direction of the travel because the 'car' is not heavey enough to counteract it. 
You should never be towing trailers with horse in it with a car...as I said in a previous post...people that tow horses with cars should have their licences taken off them because they are a liability to themselves and other road users.


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## dieseldog (4 November 2007)

When I was a kid everyone towed with cars - how times have changed, and the law probably as well.


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## JM07 (4 November 2007)

wel lsaid Pottamus.

these posts are quite frightening.

but god help ANYONE who has the misfortune to cause an accident in their ill-equipped vehicle if it involves me and my horses/family...i will sue their sorry a55es off!!!


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## SirenaXVI (4 November 2007)

No - please don't even consider it.  Probably not legal anyway.


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## henryhorn (4 November 2007)

What happens is in a sticky situation the trailer will overtake the car if the weight is greater, jack-knifing and out of control.
You really need to have the car being slightly higher weight than the trailer when loaded. Power wise I'm sure the car would tow, it''s the safety aspect you need to worry about, in an accident you could be found liable if it's wrongly weighted for your trailer.


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## Persephone (4 November 2007)

My car is perfectly able to legally and safely tow my cheval liberte trailer and 16.2 hh horse. It's a 4.4L BMW 5 series touring. We made exhaustive enquiries before buying the car and trailer and have had no problems. We specifically chose our trailer because it is 200kg lighter than the equivalent ifor willkiams. It also tows my husbands boat legally and safely which is a great deal heavier!


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## SirenaXVI (4 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
My car is perfectly able to legally and safely tow my cheval liberte trailer and 16.2 hh horse. It's a 4.4L BMW 5 series touring. We made exhaustive enquiries before buying the car and trailer and have had no problems. We specifically chose our trailer because it is 200kg lighter than the equivalent ifor willkiams. It also tows my husbands boat legally and safely which is a great deal heavier! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but a 5 series BMW is a heavy german built car - the OP is talking about a Vauxhall Vectra which is a totally different kettle of fish!


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## Persephone (4 November 2007)

Sorry, missed the point! having read again. No I wouldn't want to use a 'normal' car.


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## apkelly01 (4 November 2007)

Any trailer will jack-knife no matter what's towing it. Don't assume it wouldn't happen to a 4x4.


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## Puppy (4 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
but god help ANYONE who has the misfortune to cause an accident in their ill-equipped vehicle if it involves me and my horses/family...i will sue their sorry a55es off!!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Baaaa!


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## Patches (4 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I'd a VW Passat, 1.9tdi 130bhp. I pulled two horses (17.1hh and 15.3hh) in a Ivor williams 510 Horsebox and it pulled it fine. 

[/ QUOTE ]


Seriously?


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## Puppy (4 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd a VW Passat, 1.9tdi 130bhp. I pulled two horses (17.1hh and 15.3hh) in a Ivor williams 510 Horsebox and it pulled it fine. 

[/ QUOTE ]


Seriously? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

MY WORD!! Those horses must weigh more than Star and Be and I can't even buy a 3.5T lorry to take them....


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## Sooty (4 November 2007)

Not aimed at you as such, but the answer is yes - you can tow with what you like. However, there are guidelines and common sense. When towing horses, you need the weight in front if you want to avoid being pushed downhill be a trailer carrying a moving load. What looks fine on paper doesn't work in reality, which is why 99% of people towing horses pay the costs incurred in running a full size 4x4.


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## apkelly01 (4 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd a VW Passat, 1.9tdi 130bhp. I pulled two horses (17.1hh and 15.3hh) in a Ivor williams 510 Horsebox and it pulled it fine. 

[/ QUOTE ]


Seriously? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, seriously and it pulled them well. Normally I'd just have Super in the back and she's 16.2, but that day I was transporting 2 horses for a girl to a dressage event. The only problem I had was the belly was too low when going into the field to park otherwise it pulled it well - no snaking, weaving, pushing but I drive slow anyway when towing.

I don't have the car anymore as I missed my jeep too much. People don't get out of your way when you're driving a car


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## suzysparkle (4 November 2007)

Scary! Towing limit on a Passatt is 1500KG (I've just checked). You were pulling about 2300 - 2400KG with it. 

Yes, something with a lot of power (If I towed with my 150BHP Astra I'm sure it would pull great) will easily pull a trailer, but you need a vehicle that's heavier than what you are towing to be properly safe. It's not just about pulling power. It's about stopping and how the trailer influences the vehicle. Needless to say, I wouldn't even pull my trailer empty with my car!!! I use my huge van which is way bigger and heavier than my trailer + Horse and is well under it's max towing capicity and within 85% of its kerbweight. That is just common sense. I am very experienced at towing, including towing glider trailers which are not nice to tow. I would go up to 100% of kerb weight but certainly no more, no matter what a manufacturer says.


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## WelshRareBit (4 November 2007)

I just wouldnt bother trying to cut corners, its not worth it in the long run.


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## Wishful (4 November 2007)

Yes it will "pull" it, i.e. make it go.  The problem would be stopping it and steering it...

Car needs to weigh more than what it's pulling, and better that it is long and wide and stable, with a low centre of gravity. Saw Toyota Delica on its side on the motorway recently.  Had been towing a caravan, caravan flipped it over.


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## EstherYoung (5 November 2007)

I used to have a very lightweight Richardson and either a Ford P100 pickup or a Sierra Estate. It would tow a small ayrab and a small pony within the legal limit. It was a lot lighter than an Ifor, unladen - I could push it around myself single handed quite easily (circa 700kg if I remember right, and that was before I stripped the partition down). That rig was certainly no less stable than my current Land Rover with very large trailer and two ayrabs up. No problem with hills and believe me we did some big'uns.

If you're going to do it, weigh EVERYTHING. I'd hazard a guess that the scenario in the first post would be a bit too borderline as Ifors aren't the lightest. The one time I towed an unladen Ifor with my car it felt like my own trailer did laden. I didn't dare put anything on it.


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## squirtlysmum (5 November 2007)

In simple terms - no!
You may find the car can pull a trailer but the brakes will not be able to deal with the weight.
If you look at the manufacturers plate, found in front of the engine under the bonnet, it will have various numbers on it these are 
GVW - gross vehicle weight - this is what your vehicle is capable of carrying
AW - axle weights - these added together are your GVW
and most important to you the GTW - gross train weight this will show how much the GVW and a legal trailer can weigh and what it is capable of towing and stopping.
A small engine of 2.2 would not be safe to tow a horse trailer with and you could possibly be liable to a lovely fixed penalty ticket with added points for extra fun for dangerous unsuitable use.
It must be taken into consideration that you will have the car the trailer the neddy and all your equipment and if this goes over that magic number on the manufacturers plate you are driving illegally and, whilst on soapbox, putting you, any passengers, neddy, other road users etc etc in danger.
Steps off soapbox, so as I said before simple answer is no!


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## Wishful (5 November 2007)

The engine size is largely irrelevant.  The issue is weight.  A decent 2.2 diesel would have plenty of torque if the car in which it was mounted was suitable (unlikely).  Torque is the key to movement.  Weight and brakes are the key to stopping.


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## the watcher (5 November 2007)

'Scary! Towing limit on a Passatt is 1500KG (I've just checked). You were pulling about 2300 - 2400KG with it.'

correct, the kerbside weight on that car is 1618kg, so was being vastly exceeded by the trailer and contents - horrible and dangerous combination


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## conniegirl (5 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
'Scary! Towing limit on a Passatt is 1500KG (I've just checked). You were pulling about 2300 - 2400KG with it.'

correct, the kerbside weight on that car is 1618kg, so was being vastly exceeded by the trailer and contents - horrible and dangerous combination 

[/ QUOTE ]

not to mention illegal, thus invalidateing the insurance. so who ever this was was driving without insurance, and killing her car.
we once towed with an old renault espace. with 2 ponies (12.2hh and 14hh) we were just below the GTW. It killed the car entirely, stretched the chassis and the aircon unit blew up. Not worth it in the end even though we were within its towing wieght its chassis wasnt built for towing horses regularly

For the OP. You are mad if you think you'll manage that legaly or safely. we tow using a Merc ml270. It weighs more then the trailer when weve got my 2 fat blobs in the trailer but when one of them starts getting impatient and starts shoveing against the breastbar of the trailer you can feel it in the car. Its not major in the big car but it would be very major in a little car. An old landrover or foretrak will do the job adiquately but a small estate car will not.
Also if you are pulled over and the whole lot exceded the GTW then you get a fine, points on your liscence possibly a bigger fine for driving without insurance. AND the killer is that they can seize the car and trailer and make you pay for proffesional transport home for the horse. Not worth it at all.
Ive seen a freelander that was towing a boat flip over, there wasnt much left of it and both driver and passenger died. the official cause was the trailer  snakeing and flipping the car. Horses are a far more unstable load then a boat and thus youve got more risk of the trailer snakeing.


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