# Twin Foals



## AMH (9 May 2011)

Having been joking about the size of the mare and that it must have more than one (scanned with only one!), last night she delivered live twin fillies. One is up, almost unaided now, and we're hoping for the best. The other is hanging in there, taking a bottle and responsive, but not keen to get on her feet just yet.

Vets have suggested various options, but we're on a feeding rota for now and keeping everything crossed. Mum is being brilliant with the one that is up, and keeps just checking in on the other, but I think that one's down to us for the time being!

If anyone has any experience of coping with twins, any advice is gratefully received!

In the meantime, there's a vid on Youtube for anyone who'd like to see them - link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRfSJD1ygZU


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## hayinamanger (9 May 2011)

Oh my goodness, what a shock for you!

What a fabulous mare she is!  They both look to be a similar size, I really hope this goes well for you.


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## Meowy Catkin (9 May 2011)

I'm sending lots of good luck vibes your way!


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## Revena (9 May 2011)

Good luck, keep a good supply of coffee in, you'll need it!


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## gingerfilly (9 May 2011)

Oh my goddness, what a shock for you!! Glad that they are both living and mummy is doing well. I really hope the weakest foal will be OK! It will be alot of work for you, but well worth it if they both turn out ok  

Thinking of you and hope the "Family" keep fighting!! xx


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## kerilli (9 May 2011)

crikey, what a shock. very good news that both have survived so far. if you haven't already i would get vet out asap to give both an antibiotic, and to get some colostrum down them both. also, i'd put lots of straw around the one on the floor so she has something to get a purchase on when she does try to stand, shavings etc are lovely for bedding but hopeless for foals that first vital time or two when they haven't got control of their limbs or a lot of strength (i've just put 3 bales of straw - which normally i detest - all over my lovely clean cardboard bedding for just this reason).
very very best of luck with them both, please keep us posted!


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## amy_b (9 May 2011)

Wow! congratulations! they both look (as best as you can see on the video!) to be a good size and healthy looking! keeping everything crossed they both do well for you


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## MrsMagoo (9 May 2011)

Oh wow they are both pretty big, how did they fit in there...amazing isnt it   Hope all goes well with them both, keeping fingers crossed x


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## Alec Swan (9 May 2011)

I'd be surprised if there were many on here,  with experience of rearing twins.  That said,  I suspect that as you're already applying a large dose of common sense,  there's little else that you can do.

There is a finite milk supply,  and when a mother,  of what ever variety is asked for too much,  then they are generally pulled down very quickly.  Horses aren't designed with a milk supply for twins.  Sheep are,  but when they have triplets or quads,  then we generally take one or two away,  and put them on a bottle.  That probably wouldn't be a sensible option for a foal.  The best option would be if you could find a foster mare,  but that may not be too easy.

I've never tried rearing equine twins,  but certainly with lambs and calves,  the artificial milk which I offer,  will be rejected by the youngster which is accustomed to it's mother's milk.  You may well find that the foal which is already latched on to the mare,  will reject artificial milk.  

If you are the only milk supply,  then I suspect that the foal which is currently down,  will very soon recognise that fact,  and will latch on to you.  From what I hear of it,  it can be a trying business!!

Sallyf has been successfully bucket feeding a foal,  so if she can find the time,  then she may have some more constructive thoughts than mine!!

I wish you luck,  and will you let us know how life proceeds?

Alec.


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## AnShanDan (9 May 2011)

Just wanted to add: best of luck too. Keep us posted on their progress.


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## amy_b (9 May 2011)

dont want to hijack the thread but what Alec said made me think...
I know hand rearing foals is considered a last resort with horses, but in this situation do we think if the foal is living with its mother but being fed/topped up by a person do you think you would get the same behaviour problems you so often see with hand reared foals?!


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## Tinks81 (9 May 2011)

wow amazing what a brilliant mare!! have no advice sorry but just lots of luck and i hope all goes well xx


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## aimeetb (9 May 2011)

Best of luck!! 

My second pony was the smallest of twins! 

I really hope you manage to keep them both well - xxxx


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## Alec Swan (9 May 2011)

amy_b said:



			.......I know hand rearing foals is considered a last resort with horses, but in this situation do we think if the foal is living with its mother but being fed/topped up by a person do you think you would get the same behaviour problems you so often see with hand reared foals?!
		
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That's exactly what I meant to say,  but didn't!!   I honestly don't know,  but I would think that the foal needs a mare,  its own,  or some one else's.

Alec.


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## Gucci_b (9 May 2011)

WOW... and both foals look good, good luck and keep us all posted


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## Thistle (9 May 2011)

What a surprise, do you have any pics of the mare in the latter stages of her pregnancy?

Did she go full term?

Fingers crossed the little one makes it, has it had plasma transfusion?


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## Blanche (9 May 2011)

Congratulations . The people here www.sawyercreek.com raised twins last year on a maiden mare . She fed them herself and was fed huge amounts and foals were creep fed as soon as they showed an interest. I give them as an example as they have a website and everyone else I know who has raised twins doesn't .If you go half way down the foal page there is a picture of them . The ones to have been sucessful all kept the foals together with the mare and it has not been a problem . The only people I know who lost a twin was when they seperated one off and in fact went on to lose both . I'm sure if you contacted them they could give you some advice. Interestingly their vet trained at UC Davis and when there they had a TB mare in with triplets who all survived.


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## amy_b (9 May 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			That's exactly what I meant to say,  but didn't!!   I honestly don't know,  but I would think that the foal needs a mare,  its own,  or some one else's.

Alec.
		
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I wasnt disagreeing with you 
it would be interesting to find out but I cant imagine many people have an answer because hand reared foals are hand reared for the reason of there being no mare!  would be really interesting to know whether foals that live with their mothers/nanny but are fed by people have better manners etc...hmmm!!


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## Baggybreeches (9 May 2011)

amy_b said:



			I wasnt disagreeing with you 
it would be interesting to find out but I cant imagine many people have an answer because hand reared foals are hand reared for the reason of there being no mare!  would be really interesting to know whether foals that live with their mothers/nanny but are fed by people have better manners etc...hmmm!! 

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I would think that as long as the mare is still 'in charge' of the discipline of the foal then it shouldn't make any difference. I think it is best to leave them all together and supplement all of their diets.


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## toffeesmarty (9 May 2011)

The very best of luck to you. Please let us know how they progress.


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## kerilli (9 May 2011)

Baggybreeches said:



			I would think that as long as the mare is still 'in charge' of the discipline of the foal then it shouldn't make any difference. I think it is best to leave them all together and supplement all of their diets.
		
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this, exactly. i've heard of mares successfully rearing two foals, either both their own or even their own plus an orphan. i think as long as you're prepared to feed the mare oodles so she can make enough milk, and supplement the foals' diets too, it has to be better to leave them both on mum.


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## Holly831 (9 May 2011)

No experience (Thank Goodness!)

But just wanted to wish you well with your beautiful babies!


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## maginn (9 May 2011)

OMG what a shock.  No advice other than what has already been given but best of luck to you.


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## AMH (9 May 2011)

Update - will try to answer everyone's questions through the fog of sleep deprivation...

Firstly, both still alive! One can suckle if we get her up on her feet, and she's had a little totter round the barn, wee and poo (mostly all over my jeans) and looking fairly bright, considering.

The 'weaker' one is still not able to stand, despite trying. We've had her up a few times and the limbs work, after a fashion! She's being bottle fed at the moment and seems to be taking some each time. She has attempted to suckle when we've supported her, and she does know where she's aiming.

The mare is being a total star, allowing us to milk, encouraging both of them once their up and positioning to allow them to feed. She's got BUCKETS of milk so we're just feeding that at the moment, little and often. She was running milk for a couple of weeks beforehand and so didn't have much in the way of colostrum, but we did have a bit left over from the foal born last week, so they have had some at least. Pretty resigned to plasma if we get them to tomorrow, but it could be worse...

The vet's seen them, they've had steroids and antibiotics and the colostrum was tubed in so we know they got at least that much. We've also been told that even now there will be some antibodies in the mare's milk, and since there's so much we'll stick with it. We were offered the option of taking the weaker one to intensive care, but we're told the mare would certainly reject it if it survived, and we've decided that we and Mum can offer them everything they need at home. They're both in dog coats (so cute!) and hot water bottles, so we'll just take it a feed at a time. Somehow, we'll get some sleep, but at least there are two of us. 

We're very lucky really, we've still got a very good mum and two foals alive, and anything more is a bonus.

Keep you posted...


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## V1NN (9 May 2011)

Bless there little cottons, good luck with the beautiful babies,keep us posted on their progress  x


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## parkside (9 May 2011)

I hope this of some use;

One of my Broadstone mares delivered live, full term twin fillies despite 3 scans indicating single foetus pregnacy! I am unable to see your video at present but gather yours are more level in size.

The larger filly was fine - like any normal foal - fed and played.

The smaller filly could not stand and was very weak. She was propped within an L shape of big bales within the box and bottle fed every 2 hrs. This was exhausting at night and we gradually managed to extend it to 3 hourly feeds. What I would recommend is that at night you make the bottles a feed ahead and stand them in hot water as soon as you wake up - make the next one whilst that bottle is warming (and use a baby bottle sterilising kit). When you are bleary eyed being organised is essential - so is chocolate and tea!

Then once the filly could stand she quickly copied her sister and learnt to latch on - I used honey as the link....honey on the teat of her bottle and the mare's teats. As a result I was able to continue topping her up with artificial milk. (do not fuss her or talk to her when you are feeding her). The mare disciplined her quite well.

Sadly it was not to be as her limb deformity got worse and at 5 weeks  I had her PTS - by which time I was incredibly fond of her    The larger filly on the other hand was absolutely fine.

I had one other foal who was seperated from the mare for 5 days due to a post foaling colic. This was a very pushy colt and I used a shepherdess system to feed his milk until he was re-united with his dam - again I used honey as the link when getting him back on the mare.

Finally do not let her feed to fast - you can imagine how much quicker a foal can drink a bottle of milk versus the same amount from the mare.

On the subject of the vet....and the scans I had a refund on the AI package and the milk powder provided.

The very best of luck, I hope it works out OK and please let us know.


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## AMH (9 May 2011)

parkside said:



			I hope this of some use;

One of my Broadstone mares delivered live, full term twin fillies despite 3 scans indicating single foetus pregnacy! I am unable to see your video at present but gather yours are more level in size.

Thank you, parkside, that's really very helpful. The weaker one doesn't have the best time co-ordinating her back end at the moment, but hopefully she'll get to a point where she can stand and nurse as yours did. 

Unfortunately, these were natural cover and only scanned the once, so think it might just be one of those things we have to swallow! The vet is also reknowned locally for not making this kind of mistake, but we're all human.

We'll try the honey tip if we get that far - and every 2 hourse is doable, but we're prepared for some sleepless nights!
		
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## Rosehip (9 May 2011)

Wow! Many congrats and buckets of good luck!!
If I weere closer and not waiting on a mare myself I would offer a hand - I know what 2 hour feeds to to a person!!
I have no experience of twins in horses, but like Alec have sheep, and have had several quads and 44 sets of triplets this year!
We have for the 1st time used a shepherdess - basically a bucket in a baine marie with teats! - and it has been wonderful! Once the orpahns/rejects have been given adequate colostrum and are strong enough to go onto the sucker (generally a couple of days old depending on their size etc) it cuts your work down so much! And also means that we arent trampled under 10 sets of hooves everytime we appear! Bonus!

Good luck and pics needed of babies in dog coats!! I put weak lambs in tiny rugs too!!
Hope you are managing to get a few hours sleep during the day xx


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## smiles24 (9 May 2011)

I wonder if any kind people on here locally could help you out with the feeding? I would if I was closer. I know how tiring every two hour feeds can be and sometimes you just need a few hours uninterrupted sleep. 

Good luck with your lovely fillies.


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## AMH (9 May 2011)

smiles24 said:



			I wonder if any kind people on here locally could help you out with the feeding? I would if I was closer. I know how tiring every two hour feeds can be and sometimes you just need a few hours uninterrupted sleep. 

Good luck with your lovely fillies.
		
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We've had some very kind offers - worst of it is that I keep the horses with my cousin here in Devon, but live in SE London, so it's she who will bear the brunt of the care. We have had some very kind offers - she and I both work full time. At the moment the vet says that they need 1.2 - 1.8 litres of milk a day each, which we think we can manage for the next couple of days, and by then a decision might have been made for us... We're so lucky with the mare - she's foaled before but it's her first time with us, and she's just being brilliant. 

Just been out to have another check - the 'weaker' one is a little more alert but we're trying not to get too optimistic. BUT I've just been told that the stronger one, while I was writing, has been picked up and then took herself to her mum and latched on. RESULT! Will put film on the same link as before, momentous occasions here...


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## kerilli (9 May 2011)

that's great news, thanks for the update and v v best of luck with them.
if you get desperate for help there maybe ask locally, ask on radio or something? i'd help if i was nearby... and i'm sure other horsey people would too.


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## PorkChop (9 May 2011)

Nothing helpful to add but - everything crossed that they both progress as well as they are now


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## RuthnMeg (9 May 2011)

All words of wisdom seem to have been said, but all the very best. The mare and her babies look wonderful.


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## Tinks81 (9 May 2011)

AMH said:



			We've had some very kind offers - worst of it is that I keep the horses with my cousin here in Devon, but live in SE London, so it's she who will bear the brunt of the care. We have had some very kind offers - she and I both work full time. At the moment the vet says that they need 1.2 - 1.8 litres of milk a day each, which we think we can manage for the next couple of days, and by then a decision might have been made for us... We're so lucky with the mare - she's foaled before but it's her first time with us, and she's just being brilliant. 

Just been out to have another check - the 'weaker' one is a little more alert but we're trying not to get too optimistic. BUT I've just been told that the stronger one, while I was writing, has been picked up and then took herself to her mum and latched on. RESULT! Will put film on the same link as before, momentous occasions here...
		
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Thats a shame i was about to say i am in SE London and could offer a hand but yes Devon is a little far xx


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## muddygreymare (9 May 2011)

Not much advice but 1. they are beautiful and 2. lots of vibes, I hope that the weaker one pulls through. Good luck with them, sending lots of vibes your way


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## cruiseline (9 May 2011)

Sounds like you are doing the very best you can for the two little girls, fingers crossed they continue to strengthen.

Please keep us updated.


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## Juniberry (9 May 2011)

where in Devon. I am in Exmouth and experiance on hand rearing warmblood and fallabella foals. I work full time but may be able to lead a hand. Either way very best of luck the biggest problem with bottle feeding is choke and lung problems but IMHO what will be will be you can only do your very best


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## appylass (9 May 2011)

Very best wishes for your two fillies, they look a lovely pair. I hope the weaker one turns the corner soon, not least so that you can get some sleep! I will keep looking for updates, it's really interesting reading about them, thank you for posting.


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## AMH (9 May 2011)

Juniberry said:



			where in Devon. I am in Exmouth and experiance on hand rearing warmblood and fallabella foals. I work full time but may be able to lead a hand. Either way very best of luck the biggest problem with bottle feeding is choke and lung problems but IMHO what will be will be you can only do your very best
		
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That's really kind. We're North Devon, South Molton, so probably a bit far! 

Both still hanging in there - assuming they're both still here in the morning the vet's heading out to do IgG test and then we'll take it from there. Looks like it could be a long old night...


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## cptrayes (9 May 2011)

Wish I was closer but I'd need  long arms from Manchester   Best of luck for tonight.


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## parkside (9 May 2011)

AMH said:



			That's really kind. We're North Devon, South Molton, so probably a bit far! 

Both still hanging in there - assuming they're both still here in the morning the vet's heading out to do IgG test and then we'll take it from there. Looks like it could be a long old night...
		
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Hey AMH I work in South Molton and live in Barnstaple - very happy to help if I can in any way even if its just the odd night of sleepovers so you guys can get a whole night of sleep and recharge batteries - PM if I can help in any way x


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## angrovestud (9 May 2011)

Just want to wish you all the luck in the world, and so good the internet is such a useful tool for you with finding people near with experiance who can help with your  special little girls good luck.


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## rachi0 (9 May 2011)

If you got your weaker foal through the first critical part.. and she lives.. stands and nurses.. could you not foster her onto another mare??? 

I have heard of mares raising twins... but at the same time agree with Alec that horses are only really meant to raise a single foal!


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## Sportznight (9 May 2011)

Somehow managed to miss this!  Sounds like you've been given some wonderful advice!  FWIW we have a mare at work who will raise 2 foals if nec.

Wish I were closer, as I'd be there helping as much as I could (though that said, I am on crutches at the moment).  Fingers tightly crossed for both foals! x


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## AMH (9 May 2011)

Thank you everyone for your good wishes. Just done feeds - and, miracles, the weaker foal was up, with help, and suckling!! Had a few tears, been a day and a half and plenty more to come, but massive relief to get her on the mare. Quite down on her pasterns behind but strengthening, and the more we can get her up and moving, the better. The stronger foal is pretty good, if a little wibbly, once it's up on its feet - takes itself to mum and feeds well. Ironically, the foal I've been describing as weaker is actually bigger boned than the other - I think that might be part of her problem, as well as (according to the vet) possibly being a bit immature in her lungs. But she's breathing and suckling and trying to get up more often, so lots of positives.

Still taking it very much one feed at a time but we're a long way from giving up yet.


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## Sportznight (9 May 2011)

oh what a fantastic update!!!  Brought a tear to my eye too!!  They are very lucky babies to have you guys!!


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## Flyingbuck (9 May 2011)

They seem to be fighters which is half the battle - very best of luck to you!


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## magic104 (9 May 2011)

Best of luck with your girls my fingers are crossed all your hard work will pay off.  I think they would be best to stay together if possible.  20 odd years ago I know someone who had Conni twins & they did just fine with mum & at 6yrs both were about 14hh.


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## Kipandbud (9 May 2011)

Am keeping everything crossed for you and your special babies, good luck and keep us all updated x


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## Amaranta (9 May 2011)

Oh I am so glad the weaker foal is up, will be waiting with baited breath for updates.

Sending all the positive vibes in the world to you!


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## Thistle (9 May 2011)

That's great news, hope they continue to improve through the night and you get a little sleep.


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## devilwoman (9 May 2011)

Sending you massive great big best wishes for both foals, really hope they both progress and look forward to lots of updates and pictures


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## HashRouge (9 May 2011)

That's a lovely update, really encouraging! I've got everything crossed for them


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## me_n_super_abby (9 May 2011)

keeping everything crossed for the two little sweeties. Well done to you, i cant imagine how much hard work it must be, especially by surprise! Will be worth it, keep up the good work


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## appylass (9 May 2011)

Great news! I hope the night is kind to you all, I think you have half of HHO willing you all on


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## JoBird (9 May 2011)

This is amazing.  I sadly saw my mare's aborted twins at 7 months and it is so rare for them to be born alive!  ~ I am keeping fingers and toes crossed for you all and hope they both get stronger and stronger.  You are doing brilliantly! x


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## kerilli (9 May 2011)

that's great news, thanks for the update. hope you all have a good productive night and the girls get stronger.


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## FanyDuChamp (9 May 2011)

No advice just best wishes for your little equine family.
FDC


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## Rosehip (9 May 2011)

A bit flower-y but I've lit a candle for you all tonight, keeping everything crossed for you! x


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## Rollin (9 May 2011)

Just seen this thread.  Congratulations and good luck with them. 

Although rare twins do survive - the BDS area Commissioner for Central Scotland had a mare deliver healthy twins who both did well.


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## Vizslak (9 May 2011)

Lovely to read the weaker foal is up. Thanks for keeping us updated, best of luck x


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## attheponies (9 May 2011)

Been following your posts on the LN thread and just wanted to wish you, Mum & babies well. Have everything crossed for you, sounds like you are getting good advice from your vet and doing everything that you can.  Really, really hope that all goes well for your little family.


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## jodie3 (9 May 2011)

Just wanted to say fingers crossed for you and lots of good vibes being sent your way.

Your mare looks a real star the way she stood rock still for the foal to drink.


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## Cheese (9 May 2011)

I've had my fingers crossed each page I read hoping that there is good news! How lovely that the little one is up and feeding. Very exciting. 

Good luck - hope tonight's not too tiring for you xxx


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## freckles22uk (9 May 2011)

Just seen the videos, good luck with them both, 

Friends appy mare had twins last year, the bigger one never got up and died at 2 days old, and the other she had PTS at a week old, she did get up and suckled, but she was tiny,  but yours are much bigger and healthier looking.. fingers crossed for you all....


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## Minxie (9 May 2011)

Just to add my best wishes to the others.  I'll have everything crossed for you all and full marks indeed for getting this far


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## lornaA (9 May 2011)

hi i just wanted to say that i wish you the best of luck with your twin girls.  I had a look at the video and they are absolutley gorgeous aand not that i know anything about twin horses, they do look a reasonable size.  Best of luck x


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## Alec Swan (9 May 2011)

AMH,  

you're doing everything right.  You're getting them to feed, VITAL.  You're getting them to stand,  also VITAL.  You've kept them going,  and you're making serious progress,  by the sound of it.  VERY well done!!   Left to their own devices one or both would be dead by now.

Your vet sounds spot on,  seems to have given you the soundest advice,  and would seem to be viewing this as a bit of a project!!  One suggestion,  if your mare is milking as well as she seems to be,  would it be an idea to strip some milk from her,  and save it?  It's important to maintain the sucking reflex,  and if they aren't quite getting enough,  by their own efforts,  then when they're knackered,  you could perhaps,  top them up.  Just a thought.

You might not think that you're making progress,  but I can assure you,  that you are! 

Alec.


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## ExpressPrincess (9 May 2011)

Just wanted to say best of luck keep the photos and videos coming


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## AMH (9 May 2011)

Well, that's the 9.30 feed done - one sucking well, the other bottle fed in the end to cut down on the whole stress thing, but she has to get up to have it!

Alec, we are keeping what we milk off if there's any left over, but at the moment we're milking it out of the mare and shoving it straight down the foal! She's got so much, plenty for both at the moment, and little and often seems to be the best.

Dinner for now, then maybe a little snooze before 11.30 feeds. Champagne was mentioned, since we've got this far, but we've decided that to make sure we do get up at 11.30, probably best not!!


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## RutlandH2O (9 May 2011)

FWIW: Assuming the weaker foal needs plasma, I remember when my first foal required
plasma because the IgG test showed he was lacking antibodies, within an hour of the
treatment he was up, suckling and active. It was as if he'd received a magical potion.
Until that point, he hadn't been able to stand, hence he was unable to suckle (we were
tubing him).


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## buzzles (9 May 2011)

No advice but just want to wish you the best of luck!!


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## sarahrees (9 May 2011)

huge massive vibes xxxxx


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## AMH (9 May 2011)

rutlandwater said:



			FWIW: Assuming the weaker foal needs plasma, I remember when my first foal required
plasma because the IgG test showed he was lacking antibodies, within an hour of the
treatment he was up, suckling and active. It was as if he'd received a magical potion.
Until that point, he hadn't been able to stand, hence he was unable to suckle (we were
tubing him).
		
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That's really good to know, thank you! Hopefully we get that far - just having a cuppa and more mind-numbing TV before heading to the barn again! It's just a relief to get there and find them still with us.


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## Dolcé (9 May 2011)

Wishing you all the best of luck!  You are getting some sound advice from some on here, many who helped no end with advice when our foal was born 4 weeks early but you also sound to be doing a brilliant job on your own.  I am sure you will all be exhausted but in a few weeks you will look back and see how worth it they are.  I will look for an update in the morning, every hour you get them through makes them an hour stronger! x


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## dominobrown (9 May 2011)

Gosh reading this is like a soap!
Good luck, the updates are so interesting!
Must be a stressfull time for you, but fingers crossed you will be out of the woods soon


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## cliodhna (9 May 2011)

Well done, sounds like you are doing a fabulous job - it can't be easy, you must be exhausted. Sending you more vibes and wishing your foalies well!! I will be another one looking for more updates!


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## holiday (10 May 2011)

Good luck with your little ones, it sounds like you are getting on well, all I would add is keep an eye on the little ones legs and dont let them do too much as the joints are immature - dont know if its already been said as on foal watch, tired and not read all the way through.

Weve just known a similar situation, where a lady bought a mare not knowingly in foal and went one morning to two live babies, unfortunately the weaker twin although having intensive care got to a fortnight old and her fetlock gave way in front and she had to be sadly PTS just due to the joints being not strong enough, we were all devasted as you can imagine.  Yours both look strong and if you keep at them as you are and supplement feeding im sure you will be successful.

Good luck and I will follow your thread and all the good vibes being sent!!!!!!!


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## eventrider23 (10 May 2011)

Glad they are doing well!  Just to show some twins do survive, I know of a famous ex 4star/Olympic eventer who was one of a twin....he went on to event and his twin became a successful hunter in Ireland!  So fingers crossed for you!


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## AMH (10 May 2011)

Well, they both made it through the night and, brilliant news, the little black one, always a bit more with it, can now stand and feed on its own!!! She's just got up while I was dealing with the other one, took me a bit by surprise. 

We're waiting for the vet - the weaker one is hanging in there and is in a different position on the floor every time I go to the barn. Am really hoping that some plasma might give her a kick start.

Will update once the vet's been...


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## amy_b (10 May 2011)

keeping everything crossed for you all


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## Sandstone1 (10 May 2011)

I have no advice to give but just want to send good luck to you and the foals and mare.


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## Maesfen (10 May 2011)

That's very good news.
Sometimes, once they've got the taste for it when they've been slow, if they think you're not quick enough, they'll almost push you out of the way as if to say FGS, come on, let me in there; it's great to see and it's a real surprise as you've been used to helping them.  Hopefully, the stronger one will just get better from now on, I hope the same can be said about the other one but in all honesty, there should have been some natural improvement by now if there is going to be any I would have thought, sorry to sound glum about it, I hope I'm wrong.  You're doing a grand job with them, good luck with visit.


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## Amymay (10 May 2011)

Been following this post AMH - and have everything crossed for both your foals.

Just picking up on something you said previously - is the weaker foal actually getting enough nutrition??


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## kerilli (10 May 2011)

so glad to hear they made it through the night, keeping everything crossed for you all. have lots of coffee and carbs to keep yourselves going!


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## joeanne (10 May 2011)

Good luck for the vet, they do both sound like little fighters!


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## AMH (10 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Been following this post AMH - and have everything crossed for both your foals.

Just picking up on something you said previously - is the weaker foal actually getting enough nutrition??
		
Click to expand...

To be honest, she's taking what she'll take. Whether it's enough or not, I'm not sure, but she's drinking all she wants to. Without tubing we can't do much more. Vet still hasn't arrived,  so once he does we'll have a better idea.


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## Amymay (10 May 2011)

Look forward to the update and good luck with the vet.


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## Hebe (10 May 2011)

Huge good vibes sent from us in Pembrokeshire.

The little one sounds like a fighter, I d be happy to that she drinking up, shows  fight, and like you say you don't want to overfeed, I think your nursing sounds A1.

When we had a "flat" foal once we got extra fluids in him via IV, which he responded to, but our trouble then was that he didn't now how to get up, so we had to pop him up every few hours to drink, this went on for three week, mum and i in shifts, till we caught him getting up on his own.  Long road but so worth it to see them taking those first steps out on to the green stuff.

Good luck


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## vicijp (10 May 2011)

No help to give sorry, but sounds as though they are doing well. Can remember a few of my dads from when I was very young and they were all either born dead, or died within a few hours. 
My uncle did succesfully have twins once (not personally), the one won races and the other foaled winners.


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## Tempi (10 May 2011)

Have been following your post and just wanted to say good luck, it sounds like you are doing a great job x


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## ElleSkywalker (10 May 2011)

Hope they both continure to improve, keeping everything crossed for them, even came on here at 6 this am before turning my horses out to see how the little girls are doing... and have a feeling I'm not the only one!!!

A mare at a yard I worked at in the US had twin foals and both survived too so it does happen and your little girlies sound like they are getting the best care possible!  Good luck


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## FairyLights (10 May 2011)

I do hope they are both ok. Fingers crossed for you all.


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## Emily91 (10 May 2011)

Hi

 I have raised twin foals and both are still with us! They are 3 now 

I know exactly how stressful this can all be, trying to decided what is the right course to take while having little past experience and being very sleep deprived! So my heart goes out to you!

I havent had time to read through all the posts on here, but i am sure you have had some great advice. 

I will go now and find a thread that i got alot of help on from another forum at the time so that you can read my story.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to PM me. I will do my best to give some guidance, although obviously every situation is different.

Here is the thread 

http://latigo.marestare.com/forum/index.php?topic=8515.0

unfortunatly the pics dnt work any more. but will post some on here when i get chance.

The best advice i can give you : 

TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS!  having spent every waking hour with them since birth you know them best right now. trust what your eyes are telling you, its usually right! 

Best of luck

Emily


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## holiday (10 May 2011)

Just another thought catching up with your thread later today, the weaker one of the twins we dealt with took a few days to stand up and get more forward, so keep in there and  im sure everything will be fine!!!!!


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## millhouse (10 May 2011)

Lots of good wishes to you and the foals, and of course, Mum.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (10 May 2011)

Fingers crossed fot you all, the foals are gorgeous will be looking back to see what vet has said when he/she has been.

Wishes and good luck vibes on the way


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## CeeBee (10 May 2011)

Very best wishes to you, I'm keeping everything crossed for you x


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## MardyMare (10 May 2011)

Just read through all the posts - sending you more good luck and healing vibes.   Hope they are both still doing ok today.  Looking forward to hearing what happened after the vet visit. xx


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## Dolcé (10 May 2011)

Well done on getting them through the night!  You must be shattered, even with two of you it must be hard work.  Hang on in there, it is still early days for little ones, if the one that is laid down hasn't had much room in the womb then her legs may need to develop a bit more before she will have the strength to get up on them alone.  Keep up the good work xx


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## SusieT (10 May 2011)

Hoping for a positive update this afternoon?


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## AMH (10 May 2011)

What a day.

Well, first thing's first, they're both still with us.

Second thing's second - we have a filly and a colt, not two fillies. Bit of a mixup by the first vet which we never questioned due to the whole twins thing, we just carried on making them live. So that was the accepted wisdom, until this afternoon there was quite a lot of wee in a place we didn't expect it...

So, the filly, now doing well enough to earn the name of Silver Star, can get up unaided and is suckling. All bodily functions seem normal. With the half-litre of plasma the vet gave her this morning, we're told she now has as good a chance as any foal. She even had a little buck this afternoon.

The colt (unnamed as yet but still known as Flopsy due to his floppy left ear) is still very much in the touch and go position. He also had half a litre of plasma, as well as half a litre of saline, antibiotics, heparin, half a litre of mum's milk by stomach tube and an enema to make sure he's all connected up, which he seems to be. We're not entirely sure he's continent - he dehydrated this morning quite badly despite having taken feeds overnight - but we hope that's a maturity thing, given that his genitalia are very underdeveloped. But he's sure a fighter - he's never stopped trying to get up, even if it's just flailing legs. 

So now we have one to concentrate on. We're getting him up to feed and encouraging him to support himself as much as possible. He's still keen to feed and takes a bottle well. We've made him a little area with warm blankets and hot water bottles to keep him toasty. And we've bought another dog jacket so that we can keep putting a dry one on.

The next 24 hours are critical. The vet has said there's very little chance he'll pull through, but popped back this afternoon and was mildly amazed that he's still with us and suckling so well. 

I'll keep you updated as much as possible - another long night ahead... Thank heavens I have an understanding boss!)


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## SusieT (10 May 2011)

Glad to hear no.1 is doing well and no. 2 hanging in there. Did new vet have any wisdom on nutrition/how much foal needs to take on an hourly/two hourly basis to make sure little one is getting adequate nutrition?


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## DW Team (10 May 2011)

Good luck and I hope that the second one continues to make progress.


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## PorkChop (10 May 2011)

Thank you so much for doing updates - even through the sleep deprivation.

I sure everyone who is following this thread is willing them both to keep making progress.

Hope that you have a good night - and hoping that another day will make them that little bit stronger x


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## me_n_super_abby (10 May 2011)

Glad to hear your little girl is doing well. Sending best wishes and hope for your little boy. I hope he can find some strength to keep fighting. Good luck and keep up the good work, i bet your cream crackered!


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## Murphy88 (10 May 2011)

Great news about the filly, she sounds like she's doing amazing! I wouldn't give up hope on the colt, he sounds far more alert and able then many of the foals I have dealt with and the majority of those have made it - the average dummy foal has an 80-90% chance of survival with the right care (which he sounds like he's getting). The fact that he can stand with help and knows how to suckle is a really good sign - dummy foals can be completely comatose (or seizuring) for the first 3 or 4 days of their life, and by a week old will be up and learning to nurse. Hopefully he will be up a bit quicker than this for your sake, but as long as he is bright and still sucking hopefully he will keep going the right way.

SusieT - I would think that the aim in a foal this age would be a minimum of 10-12% BWt per day, don't know how big the foal is but in a 50kg foal thats 400-450ml every 2 hours. Obviously the OP is limited by the foals own appetite, and the fact she can't tube the foal every 2 hours to ensure he gets that much, but the fact that the colt is bright and still suckling means hopefully his appetite will improve and he will start in enough to support himself.


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## AMH (10 May 2011)

The vet has estimated that the foal is about 30kg, and I've just got 150mls of milk down him, so that's right on target.

So, we'll see - more good vibes and crossing of fingers, please!!


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## V1NN (10 May 2011)

You guys are doing a great job, keep going little boy..x


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## meesha (10 May 2011)

Have everthing crossed for you x


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## devilwoman (10 May 2011)

Massive vibes for the little lad, have been checking in and out all day (while at work) to read updates, keep up the hard work you should be proud of yourselves, everything crossed for you x


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## galaxy (10 May 2011)

Sending huge vibes to the little man


Henryhorn hand reared a foal that I met as a 4 yr old.  She was bold but not rude at all so I would drop her a pm for advise if you need it.


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## brighteyes (10 May 2011)

Vibes and good wishes I can do.  I have everything crossed for the little fellow and don't think there is anything above what you are doing will make any difference.  It's up to him. Your care sounds exemplary and your updates cheery and realistic.  You sound grateful for the positives and accepting of the vet's opinion without it affecting your efforts towards a good outcome.  

Good luck


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## haycroft (10 May 2011)

fingerscrossed with the twins
cant give any advice but wishing you the best
keeps us updated

my friends TB had twins(they tried to pinched one out) a few years back unfortually the colt died soon after it was born..all fully formed,the filly survived and going strong  as the owner has still got her although only made approx 14hh out of a 15.2


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## Vickijay (10 May 2011)

Cor I have just read this whole post! It sounds like you are doing a amazing job. Fingers crossed they both carry on improving


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## Whizz105 (10 May 2011)

Oh my word!! I have just seen this!! What a miracle!! Huge hugs and sending big best wishes to you all!

Even tho your tired thank you so much for taking the time to post xxx


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## Mega (10 May 2011)

Ditto all above. Good luck, you're doing an amazing job. You're little ones have so many well wishers xxx


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## freckles22uk (10 May 2011)

Good news with the filly and a lovely name.. fingers crossed for the colt, looks like you have quite a following with this thread...


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## hobo (10 May 2011)

been following this post and just want to add best wishes for the colt and glad filly is doing well. I really hope flopsy makes it. Well done for all the updates.


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## Sportznight (10 May 2011)

Oh fingers tightly crossed for the little lad!  Floppy seems like a name that will stick   I like it, it's endearing.  Sounds like all 3 of them are getting all the care possible and as has been said, the fact that the colt is so bright and eager to feed is such a major bonus, he knows what to do and he knows he likes milk.  Keep at it.  As I think I said before, they're lucky to have you guys!  Thank you for the updates.


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## SusieT (10 May 2011)

Brilliant, keep going and fingers crossed re: feeding. You should notice if he starts getting better he'll start asking for the milk whether or not he takes a few more days to get up!


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## cliodhna (10 May 2011)

Well done, what a relief for you to have such a positive prognosis for the filly at least. Fingers still crossed for your little colt, hopefully he will hang in there. Sounds like he is a real toughie. Loads more luck to you


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## lillie07 (10 May 2011)

Don't really have anything constructive to add but wishing you all the best, sounds like you are doing an amazing job in a very difficult situation. Sending lots of good wishes to the little ones, have been logging in all day to follow their progress!


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## Dolcé (11 May 2011)

Fingers crossed for tonight!  He sounds like a little fighter so hang in there.  Our prem foal was feeding from mum every 20 minutes or so at first, although that could be because mum didn't have very much milk for the first couple of weeks and I had to supplement her with a bucket (she wouldn't suckle from a bottle).  Even when I fed her milk from the bucket she was straight onto mum when she had finished it, may be worth trying little and often with him.

I agree with Murphy 88, I recently followed a dummy foal on marestare and it was several days before it was even trying to get up.  It is horrible to watch them so helpless and in the wild he wouldn't stand a chance but with you to care for him he has every chance of coming through. Good luck! x


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## liannexsx (11 May 2011)

best of luck. very emotive


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## AMH (11 May 2011)

Just been out to do 5.30 feed. Silver is going great guns - at 3am she was galloping round the barn and bucking, more than could be said for us!

He is not doing so well. He's in and out in terms of response and he's not brilliantly hydrated, but he's still breathing, and while he's doing that we'll keep trying to get what we can down his throat. His kidneys are still functionning, mainly all over my cousin when she's holding him up! I genuinely expected him not to be with us at the last feed, but he's not giving up, so neither are we.


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## me_n_super_abby (11 May 2011)

Keep it up and come on little man!! Watch your sister and take note. Fingers crossed for another day for him.


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## magic104 (11 May 2011)

AMH said:



			Just been out to do 5.30 feed. Silver is going great guns - at 3am she was galloping round the barn and bucking, more than could be said for us!

He is not doing so well. He's in and out in terms of response and he's not brilliantly hydrated, but he's still breathing, and while he's doing that we'll keep trying to get what we can down his throat. His kidneys are still functionning, mainly all over my cousin when she's holding him up! I genuinely expected him not to be with us at the last feed, but he's not giving up, so neither are we.
		
Click to expand...

I so hope you are rewarded for all your hard work, he sounds like a fighter & deserves to survive.


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## Vetwrap (11 May 2011)

Just wanted to wish you all the very best of luck.  I am full of admiration for you and your family and the dedication with which you are fighting battles with your little man.

Whatever the outcome, you know that you will have done everything possible.  I'll keep checking your thread and sending big positive vibes your way.


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## Murphy88 (11 May 2011)

What a fighter Silver has turned out to be!

Dummy's will often get worse before they get better, as long as he still wants to suck when he's awake I'd be happy. Now would be around the period for seizures if he was going to have any, so if he can get through today without them that's another good sign.

Is his urine dilute or dark? If he is getting a little dehydrated then you would expect it to be more concentrated. The fact that he wees all ver your cousin is another good sign, as it indicates to me a degree of awareness and conscious control of his bladder. If you are really worried, perhaps it is worth discussing with your vet abot placing an indwelling feeding tube so that you can top up his feeds if he doesn't drink himself.  

Good luck, hope they both continue to improve today so you can get some sleep soon!


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## jennygw (11 May 2011)

I am so full of admiration of you and all your hard work.  Been checking in constantly to keep updated. I really pray all your hard work pays off and that little man pulls through. I'm sure it feels so hard in every way but on behalf of everyone reading,  we're all behind you willing these little foals on.  X x x


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## Baggybreeches (11 May 2011)

Just another one wishing you the best of luck. Fingers crossed for the little guy xx


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## Lark (11 May 2011)

You are doing such an amazing job.  Sending all my best wishes in your direction. Fingers and toes crossed.


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## MardyMare (11 May 2011)

Good news on the filly.  Colt sounds like a fighter and good on you for helping him so much I hope he continues to fight xx


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## Amos (11 May 2011)

Just wanted to wish you luck and praying this morning brings good news. hugs and vibes x


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## thoroughlybred1 (11 May 2011)

I've been following this thread willing you all the luck in the world......the first thing I do when I turn the PC on is look here for news of your twins. I'm so glad Silver is thriving and truly hope the boy turns the corner - you've worked so hard I do hope its rewarded

Keeping everything crossed for today xx


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## Jackpotsstud (11 May 2011)

It's so encouraging to hear your little filly is doing well.  I'm keeping everything crossed for her brother and hope he keeps fighting.  Sounds like you are doing a fabulous job, giving him the best chance to fight.


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## Amymay (11 May 2011)

Just popped in to see your updates.  Brilliant job you're doing, and still sending +++++ vibes.


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## TheresaW (11 May 2011)

Nothing to add to what has already been said, but will be keeping everything crossed.  Thankyou for keeping us updated, will be logging on at work and praying he is still hanging in there. xx


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## CeeBee (11 May 2011)

Hoping and praying your little man is still with you this morning and that your filly is still doing so well. Thank you so much for taking the time to update us when you must be completely drained x


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## Amaranta (11 May 2011)

Just popped in to see how they are doing, great news on the filly, crossing everything for the colt


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## Sportznight (11 May 2011)

Just popped on see how things are - fingers crossed that you've all had a good night


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## AMH (11 May 2011)

Not good news, I'm afraid.

Well, some good news - Silver is still doing well, eating and drinking and looking very healthy.

The colt, sadly, was gone when I went out to do last feed. He had been going downhill all night, despite still being warm and comfortable physically. Having called the vet this morning, he thinks that his suspicion that the foal might have haemolytic anaemia was the most likely problem. This results from the foal reacting adversely to the mare's antibodies, causing gradual red blood cell breakdown. Through the night he became gradually less and less responsive, but he kept breathing long after we expected him to give up. So it seems that we were fighting the inevitable - the vet said that even a healthy foal would have struggled to pull through.

So, we're down to one, but she's doing really well. And the mare has buckets of milk still, so she has every chance. Once I get home and get my camera sorted I'll post some photos.

Thank you everyone for all your words of support - it's been very sustaining through the past couple of days. Now we need to get some sleep!!


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## peanut (11 May 2011)

You couldn't have done more - you all put up an amazing fight.  My thoughts are with you.


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## Lynnskatz (11 May 2011)

So sorry for the loss of the little one, lots of good vibes sent your way for the remaining baby.


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## WoopsiiD (11 May 2011)

Oh no.
This was the post I was dreading.
Well done to you all for everything you did for him.
x


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## Hebe (11 May 2011)

very very sorry to hear that he has passed . 

Your nursing was top draw, you did all you could and more, big hugs x

Run free little bub xxx


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## MadisonBelle (11 May 2011)

I'm so sorry.... was so willing him though....... Good luck with Silver though and I hope you all start be able to enjoy it all very soon...............


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## Thistle (11 May 2011)

So sorry to hear that you lost the colt. The filly sounds full of beans.


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## AnShanDan (11 May 2011)

Very sorry to hear this too.
Best of luck with little Silver.


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## Revena (11 May 2011)

So sorry to hear that you've lost him.x


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## meesha (11 May 2011)

Thank you so much for keeping us all updated - I think many of us have been logging on hourly with everything crossed for you.  Sooo sorry to hear that flopsy didnt make it, but you have done an amazing job and at least you can look back without any doubt that you did all you could have.

It sounds like Silver is doing brilliantly and I cant wait to see more pics of her x


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## eventrider23 (11 May 2011)

I am so sorry to hear about the little man but at least he is not suffering at all any more and now you can focus all that energy into Silver and making sure she thrives for her and her brother.


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## illy89 (11 May 2011)

Very sorry to hear this but you did all you could for him. Best of luck with Silver!


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## Holly831 (11 May 2011)

So sorry to hear that Flopsy didn't make it. ((hugs)) and run free little man xx

<<<Growing vibes>>> for Silver.

You did everything you could (and more) to give them the best possible chance, it's so sad that Flopsy didn't make it but I hope Silver continues to thrive and look forward to updates

B x


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## amy_b (11 May 2011)

sorry to hear about your loss 
at least you have one baby to concentrate on and hopefully can get some sleep


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## thoroughlybred1 (11 May 2011)

Aw, I'm gutted for you after all your hard work, but we all knew it was a long shot. Flopsy had more fans in his few days than many horses have in their lifetime, and I for one have learned a lot from all the replies, advice and ideas given here

All the best for Silver, and along with everyone else look forward to her pictures!


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## Daffodil (11 May 2011)

Haven't posted before but have been following the story.  You threw your heart and soul into saving him but sadly it was not to be.     He made a big impact in his short life.   Many condolences to you. xx

Lots of vibes for Silver and I look forward to seeing the photos.


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## hobo (11 May 2011)

So sorry about Flopsy but you did your very best for him. Good luck for Silver and keep us updated.


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## Baydale (11 May 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear this, how terribly sad. x


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## kerilli (11 May 2011)

so so sad to hear he didn't make it, will redouble vibes for Silver. xxx


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## angrovestud (11 May 2011)

Such sad news and I am so sorry for your loss, very best healing vibes for your filly good luck


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## Vetwrap (11 May 2011)

No one could have done more for him, than you did.  I'm so sorry that it wasn't to be.


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## carousel8703 (11 May 2011)

Sorry it hear about your loss. You did everything you could xxx Best of luck with silver xxxxx


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## Murphy88 (11 May 2011)

So sorry to hear this, but You should be proud of the fact that the care you provided gave him the best possible chance of survival, sometimes these things just aren't meant to be.

I'm sure little Silver will keep on fighting, and as sad as it is, the loss of her brother will give her a better chance as an only foal.


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## Maesfen (11 May 2011)

Very sad after all your hard work.  Good luck with filly.


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## GinnieRedwings (11 May 2011)

Brought tears to my eyes, though I have been fighting the feeling that it was inevitable.

Like others, I have lived through your ups and downs for the last couple of days and wish you all the best with the little filly. May she thrive and grow up to be a star xxx


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## me_n_super_abby (11 May 2011)

Oh how very sad. You could have not done any more. I'm sure your little girl will come along in leaps and bounds. Rip little man


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## Snoozinsusan (11 May 2011)

So sorry to hear this.  You did your best for him.  All the best to you and Silver.


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## Dolcé (11 May 2011)

so so sorry, how very sad!  Poor lamb, but he tried his best for you and his mum.  I really hope Silver continues to thrive, at least mum still has one to keep her busy  xx

oh, having re read that, I hope it doesn't sound callous, it isn't meant that way nor to detract in any way from the upset of losing the little one.  Hopefully it will be easier for mum because Silver will be demanding her attention.  I couldn't imagine dealing with this and think you have done so well!


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## Andalusianlover (11 May 2011)

So Sorry to hear about Flopsy.

Hope Silver continuse to progress well!

Big Hugs and lots of good vibes

xxx


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## Sportznight (11 May 2011)

Oh goodness me! I'm so sorry!  RIP little man   I hate to say this, but is there any risk to Silver re.the same problem?  It's just that I know that often once a mare has been haemolytic once, she often is again.  You've been through enough without me throwing a curve ball like this into the mix, but I had to say it   I really hope that Silver continues to do well and that the mare is OK too.


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## irish_only (11 May 2011)

Have kept reading this post, hoping that both would pull through. So sorry to hear about the little one, but you did everything possible to help him. Very very best wishes with the filly. Let's all hope it is onwards and upwards for you all.


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## dozzie (11 May 2011)

Really sorry Flopsy didnt make it. 

Hope the filly continues to progress.


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## Simsar (11 May 2011)

irish_only said:



			Have kept reading this post, hoping that both would pull through. So sorry to hear about the little one, but you did everything possible to help him. Very very best wishes with the filly. Let's all hope it is onwards and upwards for you all.
		
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Ditto this


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## Baggybreeches (11 May 2011)

Sorry to hear this. I hope the filly continues to thrive xxx


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## cliodhna (11 May 2011)

So sorry to see this. Have been rooting for the little man.. At least you can take comfort in knowing you gave him the best chance and ultimately it was not meant to be. RIP Flopsy 

Hope your filly continues to thrive.


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## Rosehip (11 May 2011)

Have just caught up with this after fighting a similar battle with a lamb overnight, which I sadly lost. 
Many hugs for your loss, you worked so hard, you couldnt have done any more.
Re-newing my vibes for silver, and re-lighting the candle for you all xx


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## Kinkyangel (11 May 2011)

So sorry to hear that the little man didn't make it! Xxxx


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## cruiseline (11 May 2011)

Oh I am so sorry to hear your very sad news 

RIP little man, it sounds like you were a little fighter, god bless.

I am keeping everything crossed for his little sister.

(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))


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## Tinks81 (11 May 2011)

I am so sorry xx hope little Silver does you and her brother proud - you have done amazing xx


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## PalominoMare (11 May 2011)

Oh gosh i'm so sorry to hear that, i've been watching this thread and you have really done the best you can. Hope Silver keeps on improving.


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## AMH (11 May 2011)

Sportznight said:



			Oh goodness me! I'm so sorry!  RIP little man   I hate to say this, but is there any risk to Silver re.the same problem?  It's just that I know that often once a mare has been haemolytic once, she often is again.  You've been through enough without me throwing a curve ball like this into the mix, but I had to say it   I really hope that Silver continues to do well and that the mare is OK too.
		
Click to expand...

Please don't apologise! The main reason for starting this thread was to see if anyone else had any ideas or experiences we could draw on, so suggestions are always welcome.

It is a question we asked ourselves. The vet didn't seem concerned and she's showing absolutely no signs - I've just been and taken some video of her having a little canter in the barn (both she an Mum are looking just fine and Mum's coped very well). They weren't identical, so it's likely that they had different blood types, clearly fortunate under the circumstances. 

One thing - they both received colostrum which we had in store from two other mares. Neither of those mares have had foals with haemolytic anaemia, but I'm not sure if the antibodies can be present anyway, or if it's specifically a reaction to the foal's blood which causes the antibodies to be produced. What I'm wondering is whether it could have been that colostrum which was the contributary factor. I know that NI (if that was the cause of his haemolytic anaemia) is more prevalent in TBs and one of the donor mares is a TB. 

Does anyone have any ideas?


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## Alec Swan (11 May 2011)

Could it be the lack of colostrum?  Almost certainly not.  Colostrum deficiency shows its effects,  generally,  but not until a few weeks after birth,  when the recipient begins to show the effects of inadequate protection.  

All those lambs,  calves and foals,  who receive an inadequate supply,  will generally go down with joint ill,  or a similar,  and horrible complaint.

I'm so sorry that you've lost your foal.  I was amazed at your levels of,  determination and common sense.  I would suggest that there was nothing which you could have done which would have saved your foal.  The problems which the poor chap faced,  were before birth,  and not after.  

Go and sleep,  you've earned it!!

Alec.


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## RuthnMeg (11 May 2011)

Sorry to hear about the colt. 
All the very best with the filly. x


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## AMH (11 May 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			Could it be the lack of colostrum?  Almost certainly not.  Colostrum deficiency shows its effects,  generally,  but not until a few weeks after birth,  when the recipient begins to show the effects of inadequate protection.  

All those lambs,  calves and foals,  who receive an inadequate supply,  will generally go down with joint ill,  or a similar,  and horrible complaint.

I'm so sorry that you've lost your foal.  I was amazed at your levels of,  determination and common sense.  I would suggest that there was nothing which you could have done which would have saved your foal.  The problems which the poor chap faced,  were before birth,  and not after.  

Go and sleep,  you've earned it!!

Alec.
		
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Thank you, Alec. The question I have is more about whether it could have been antibodies in the donor mares' colostrum rather than the mother's, which caused the reaction. 

If not, then I definitely wouldn't consider using that stallion again, and the mare has definitely produced a haemolytic response, which is something we need to be aware of in the future. 

It's a moot point really, but given that we have a small mare herd and might be in a situation where we have to give donor colostrum in the future, it would be useful to know if there's more chance that using colostrum from certain mares in certain foals could produce that reaction.  If we know we have this problem, then in future it might be best to cut straight to plasma transfer rather than running the risk.


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## Sportznight (11 May 2011)

AMH said:



			Please don't apologise! The main reason for starting this thread was to see if anyone else had any ideas or experiences we could draw on, so suggestions are always welcome.

It is a question we asked ourselves. The vet didn't seem concerned and she's showing absolutely no signs - I've just been and taken some video of her having a little canter in the barn (both she an Mum are looking just fine and Mum's coped very well). They weren't identical, so it's likely that they had different blood types, clearly fortunate under the circumstances. 

One thing - they both received colostrum which we had in store from two other mares. Neither of those mares have had foals with haemolytic anaemia, but I'm not sure if the antibodies can be present anyway, or if it's specifically a reaction to the foal's blood which causes the antibodies to be produced. What I'm wondering is whether it could have been that colostrum which was the contributary factor. I know that NI (if that was the cause of his haemolytic anaemia) is more prevalent in TBs and one of the donor mares is a TB. 

Does anyone have any ideas?
		
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Glad you didn't mind, esp as I followed this up with a pm.  The problem is a reaction to the mother's colostrum.  

If we are aware that a mare is likely to be haemolytic, then we muzzle the foal for the first 18 to 24hrs of life, so he/she cannot nurse from the dam (who will be stripped of her colostrum and regularly milked during this time) and the foal bottle fed donor colostrum and then donor milk.  Once the gut wall has closed at approx 24hrs of age, then the foal is safe to find the milk bar.  

If you are at all concerned, ask your vet to take bloods off the foal, to specifically check the SAA, Fib and WBC.  Further plasma may be needed along with a short course of antibiotics.  That said, that might not be necessary, but the bloods will tell you.

Once a mare has proven to be haemolytic, she is highly likely to be again.  It is very rare for a maiden to be so, though I have known of one.  If there is any doubt, then the mare can have an isoerythrolysis blood taken from her about 10 days before her due date (or earlier if she is showing signs of foaling early).  If she goes much more than a fortnight past her due date, then a further test will be required if she came up positive.


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## Murphy88 (11 May 2011)

I am pretty sure that foals can get NI from donated colostrum, and if Silver and the colt got different batches then that would explain why she is fine. How many foals had the donor mares had? Mares normally have a normal first foal which 'sensitises' them, and then 2nd foals are NI. It's interesting that the donor mares foals were normal though, if there were antibodies in the donor colostrum you would expect the foals to be NI. If your mare was producing antibodies in her milk, it would be to the stallion's blood type, and while I am no expert on blood typing in horses, I am sure Silver would also be susceptible so I can't see how it can be the result of your mare. You can blood type for sure to find out whether your mare and the stallion were compatible, so you know whether NI might be an issue in future foals.  Do you know what made your vet suspicious of NI in the colt?

The above rambling probably doesn't really answer your question, sorry - I would go and do some research because I find foal medicine fascinating, but I'm supposed to be revising for finals and have already spent too much time on foals and not enough time on dogs and cats!


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## vroutledge (11 May 2011)

AMH said:



			Thank you, Alec. The question I have is more about whether it could have been antibodies in the donor mares' colostrum rather than the mother's, which caused the reaction. 

If not, then I definitely wouldn't consider using that stallion again, and the mare has definitely produced a haemolytic response, which is something we need to be aware of in the future. 

It's a moot point really, but given that we have a small mare herd and might be in a situation where we have to give donor colostrum in the future, it would be useful to know if there's more chance that using colostrum from certain mares in certain foals could produce that reaction.  If we know we have this problem, then in future it might be best to cut straight to plasma transfer rather than running the risk.
		
Click to expand...

I used to work on a stud and we used to actually milk the mare when she first has the foal after its had the first drink and then freeze some off the colostrum and label it with the mares name, we had a collection in the freezer from each mare so if any problems occured again there was some colostrum and milk from each mare saved.


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## Sportznight (11 May 2011)

Murphy88 said:



			I am pretty sure that foals can get NI from donated colostrum
		
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IME that's never been the case, so if it is, it must be quite rare.


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## Murphy88 (11 May 2011)

Sportznight said:



			IME that's never been the case, so if it is, it must be quite rare.
		
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I could be wrong, but the reason I say this is because the NICU in the USA where I was in April  had a case a few years ago in an orphan foal. It only came up in conversation with the staff there because of a discussion about properly labelling stored colostrum - the orphan foal received colostrum from a pot that wasn't labelled, and the staff did not know which mare it had come from, so they had to throw away the entire stock of frozen colostrum in case they caused more NI in other foals.

I would be really interested to find out more about this, just don't have time to do the research myself at the moment! After finals I will try to send an email to the neonatology professor who taught me, he will know the answer (he knows the answer to everything about foals!)


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## Sportznight (11 May 2011)

Murphy88 said:



			I could be wrong, but the reason I say this is because the NICU in the USA where I was in April  had a case a few years ago in an orphan foal. It only came up in conversation with the staff there because of a discussion about properly labelling stored colostrum - the orphan foal received colostrum from a pot that wasn't labelled, and the staff did not know which mare it had come from, so they had to throw away the entire stock of frozen colostrum in case they caused more NI in other foals.

I would be really interested to find out more about this, just don't have time to do the research myself at the moment! After finals I will try to send an email to the neonatology professor who taught me, he will know the answer (he knows the answer to everything about foals!)
		
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Interesting!!  Whereabouts were you?  I've done so much foaling on large TB studs in the US and UK and since stayed in the breeding side of the industry and have never come across it from donor colostrum.  Though as I said, we did have a maiden in 2001 in KY that was, as they call it, jaundice positive.  That foal went on to be a Gr.2 winner and unfortunately finish last in the 2004 KY Derby. (He also had strangles burst out of his stifle... I've not forgotten him lol)


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## Murphy88 (11 May 2011)

That was at U Penn's New Bolton Center, but I've also spent time at Rood and Riddle in KY - like you I would have though it unlikely, and that case is the only one I've heard of so perhaps it was just a strange 
anomalie! It would be interesting to know the blood type of this mare, and whether there have been cases before where only one twin is affected?


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## Sportznight (11 May 2011)

Isn't that where Barbaro was?  Yes it would be interesting, but difficult to research.

Sorry for going off on a tangent AMH!


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## Murphy88 (11 May 2011)

Yes it was where Barbaro was! Sorry for hijacking thread for a bit there AMH, hope little Silver is still doing well this afternoon.


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## air78 (11 May 2011)

Sorry to hear you lost Flopsy, after all your efforts.

I hope Silver continues to thrive.


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## sprytzer (11 May 2011)

So sorry to read about Flopsy, but great that mum still has one baby.

Just a question though, as their was one of each sex...does it work in horses the same as cattle, that the filly would be a 'freemartin' or does that not happen in horses?
Sorry if it sounds a silly question but being from farming i just wondered.


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## misst (11 May 2011)

Just logged in to see how things were. I am so sorry you have lost the little man. You tried so hard. I know nothing about these things but the dedication you have shown seems immense. Best wishes for the little filly and I hope she rewards you in years to come in bucketfulls.x


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## gingerfilly (11 May 2011)

Just came on for an update.... I am so sorry to hear you lost the colt  Thinking of you!! Its so hard loosing a foal, but you tried your best for him and thats what counts, some things just arent meant to be. Hope the Filly is thriving and that the mare is OK too!!


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## Revena (11 May 2011)

AMH said:



			One is up, almost unaided now, and we're hoping for the best. The other is hanging in there, taking a bottle and responsive, but not keen to get on her feet just yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRfSJD1ygZU

Click to expand...

sorry again for your loss,
I have been thinking about this since I saw your post this morning.  I find it strange that this foal has been diagnosed as having NI, your foal had been weak since birth, it has not shown a rapid decline which is when you would start to think it was NI.  Did your vet take a blood test from the foal?


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## PorkChop (11 May 2011)

Very sad  about flopsy - you did everything you could.

I am sure Silver will continue to get stronger - she sounds fab


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## FayeFriesian (11 May 2011)

Just read this, as not been on much over the last few days. So sorry to hear you lost your colt, you did everything you could.


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## Amymay (11 May 2011)

So sorry to hear of the little ones demise.

Will look forward to the updates of the filly.


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## millhouse (11 May 2011)

So sorry to read about Flopsy.  God bless.


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## AMH (11 May 2011)

Here's Silver doing her stuff at about lunchtime today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb4Wd2YH3p8


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## misst (11 May 2011)

Well as I said before I don't know much about new foals but she looks pretty perky to me. I hope she goes on in strength.


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## holiday (11 May 2011)

Im so sorry to hear your news, good luck with your little filly she sounds like a great fighter xxxxxx


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## sarah23 (11 May 2011)

I am so sorry to hear the little colt didn't make it. I had been following this thread with my fingers crossed for you.

Little Silver looks a lovely little thing.


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## millhouse (11 May 2011)

What a beautiful video.  Silver is lovely, and isn't Mum grand?


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## haycroft (11 May 2011)

im soo sorry you lost your colt,how sad and you done as much as you could for him

thats whatt happen to my friends mare twins, the colt born alive but soon died but the filly doing well and shes coming up for 6 now

i'd read or was told sometime back that the colts are less likely to surviive if its  a twin..please correct me if im wrong

silvers is such a sweetie i wish you all the luck with her

reading this thread with interest


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## hayinamanger (11 May 2011)

So very sorry you lost your colt, you couldn't have done more for him.  You must all be very tired but happy the filly is thriving and the mare is ok.  Please keep us posted with news of Silver.


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## Amaranta (11 May 2011)

I am so sorry to read your news, but you gave him the best chance, it just wasn't to be sadly 

Makes little Silver all the more precious


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## lozziehumphreys (11 May 2011)

So sorry to hear about your loss. You really did everything you could for him. Fingers crossed Silver continues to go from strength to strength.


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## dingle12 (11 May 2011)

So sorry for your loss, my dogs have the same dog coat  she will be lovely and warm with that on, they are the best dog coats ive seen around.


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## jennygw (11 May 2011)

I'm SO sad to hear the news on your lovely little colt. :-(  I think.we've all got emotionally attached to your foals whilst reading your posts. Good luck with Silver,  she was part of a very special pair and hoping she will grow up to run rings around you,  cause havoc and caos and everything else a youg horse should. X x x


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## Mega (11 May 2011)

So sorry to hear about your colt. 
At least you can know he'll live on with his sister. ((((((((hugs)))))))


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## brighteyes (11 May 2011)

Not quite the happy update I was hoping for but Silver looks like a grand little thing.  All the very best with her and what a super mum she has.


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## Vickijay (11 May 2011)

Im sorry to read this. At least you know you did all you could. 
I watched the lovely video of Silver, shes gorgeous, all the best with her


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## Whizz105 (11 May 2011)

Sorry you lost Flopsy, you did the best you could. Fingers crossed for Silver she looks to be doing very well!


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## magic104 (11 May 2011)

I was really hoping he would pull through, so very sad.  Life is such a bitch sometimes!


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## jodie3 (11 May 2011)

I'm so sorry you lost your colt.

I'm sure I'm not the only one on this forum who has had a little cry over him, we were all willing him to pull through but sadly it wasn't to be.

Although you must be devasted at his loss you can be comforted by the fact that you did everything you could for him and its a tribute to your love and care that he lived as long as he did against impossible odds.

Good luck with Silver, I hope she brings you lots of fun and enjoyment.


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## koeffee (11 May 2011)

so sorry, i was praying the little man would make it. you did an amazing job with them both.


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## devilwoman (11 May 2011)

Just dashed in from work and first thing was to check how your babies were doing, so terribly sorry to hear about flopsy not making it RIP little guy, fingers crossed that Silver continues to get stronger and stronger x


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## freckles22uk (11 May 2011)

RIP little flopsy...  :-(

looked at the video of Silver, she looks great and so does mum, fingers crossed for her,


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## AMH (12 May 2011)

Just been out to check on mares and foals this morning and all looking good. Silver was up on her feet when I got to the barn, and had a little buck and a kick round the box while Mum was eating her brekkie.

We popped them out in the paddock for an hour last night, just to let Mum stretch her legs and so we could rearrange the boxes to make her a smaller area to cope with. She came in fine, although they did have to stop halfway for her to refuel!

We've restricted them to one end of the barn for the time being. We've put plenty of bedding down and sealed up all the draughty corners so she'll be nice and cosy and can't scrape herself on the floor too much. We're conscious of the advice we've been given on here to make sure she doesn't spend too much time on her little legs, so they'll have only an hour out for the next couple of days and then probably a bit longer at the weekend, when there's more time for playing musical paddocks!

I have to go back to London today, so I'm leaving her in the hugely capable hands of my cousin, without whom, frankly, we'd have no foals at all this season. The TB foal was overdue and pretty dopey when born, and took a couple of days to find her feet. And with these two, the little colt had the bag on his nose when he arrived, and Silver was not presented the best. So I owe her all of them.


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## Andalusianlover (12 May 2011)

Glad little Silver is doing well!


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## Tempi (12 May 2011)

So sad for your loss 

It sounds like Silver is doing well though, will keep my fingers crossed for you x


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## aregona (12 May 2011)

i came late to this thread and read it all tuesday night and really hoping both were be ok as they were doing so well. Well done for the fab job you have all done though, its a credit to you as we have all 'heard' (thankfully few of us have ever had to deal with) how difficult twins are so i think its great. So sad for the little man though, thats what i find so hard about foals though, they look to be getting stronger and then can just turn. 

best of luck with silver, she looks lovely xxx


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## toffeesmarty (12 May 2011)

What sad news, however echoing what others have said, you should be very proud of what you have achieved and the care given to get to this point. 
Silver is a special treasure and one that all forum members will want to follow closely so keep up with the updates!


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## dianchi (12 May 2011)

Looks like Silver is doing well, fingers x she keeps it up


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## Sportznight (12 May 2011)

Really wonderful news about Silver!


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## Rosehip (12 May 2011)

So glad Silver is doing so well! Does she have a dog jacket for indoors and outdoors? I can see her getting herself a little wardrobe!
Best of luck with her!! x


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## coco331 (12 May 2011)

Like lots of people I've been following this thead avidly! Such a shame about Flopsy, bless him ... but it's so nice to see Silver playing and looking well! .... I wish her all the luck in the world x


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## devilwoman (12 May 2011)

what a lovely uplifting video to see little Silver hooling around, mare is gorgeous too x


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## ace87 (13 May 2011)

Only just found this thread - very interesting! Am terribly sorry about your little colt :-( but here's hoping Star will keep going for him. X


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## haycroft (13 May 2011)

thought i'd bump this up
nice to read an update on silver


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## AMH (14 May 2011)

Just got more pics of the twins uploaded. Spot the TB filly lurking in a couple of them...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15991910@N07/sets/72157626591745389/


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## millhouse (14 May 2011)

Lovely pictures - thanks for that.


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## coco331 (14 May 2011)

Lovely pics of beautiful babies  
Bless Flopsy and that ear, run fast and free wee lad!


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## rubyrumba (14 May 2011)

I have only just seen this thread and your amazing story brought a tear to my eye. Thank you for sharing the story, videos and pictures. Sorry for your loss of the gorgeous colt and all the very best of luck with the filly.


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## devilwoman (14 May 2011)

Lovely pictures, thanks for sharing them - hope Silver is thriving x


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