# Badminton XC!



## only_me (5 May 2018)

There&#8217;s normally a thread for xc day but doesn&#8217;t appear to have been done yet!

Poor Denis on Xam, that was quite a fall in the water & horse looked a bit confused!!

I&#8217;m rooting for oli today, I&#8217;d love him to get the grand slam!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Came here looking for one so good work OM


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Loved Andrew's ride through the lake earlier, he always looks cool as a cucumber


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Was very classy!

The quick route at the pond doesn&#8217;t seem that much slower than the long route?


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

No, it's a complete turn back on yourself either way, isn't it.


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## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

I&#8217;m just so pleased that after all the awful weather they&#8217;ve had this spring, that the rain stopped and the sun came out in time for the ground to dry up for today!  

It&#8217;s wonderful to see Badminton looking so spectacular today in the sun, with the course looking amazing and (touching wood) riding so well!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

coo eck, Oli's first horse looks pooped and quite a long way from home... :eek3:

Northern Hare, couldn't agree more though ground was still quite soft yesterday, hope it's firmed up a bit more since.


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Wonder if oli feels has a better chance on 2nd horse so is using first run out to test time & speed? 
He went v quickly yet still 18sec over. Horse might be feeling it a bit tomorrow!!


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## Tiddlypom (5 May 2018)

All set up here for the day's viewing too . Here's the link to today's XC start list.

https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-start-list-2018/

Oli looked a bit knackered after his first round?


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Richard jones has gone the wrong way on the course 

Someone will be kicking themselves later

Ets. And a safety stop by the horse at the hollow now. Clever horse!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Whoops!  You'd kick yourself for taking the wrong turn later 

ETA hehe O-m


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## The Fuzzy Furry (5 May 2018)

So Andrew lost a shoe on course!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ahh shame. Funny I was just thinking how nicely that hollow was riding, it looked absolutely vile when we looked yesterday.


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## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

That was a great interview with Andrew Nicholson ref whether any horses would go within the time - I am sure he&#8217;s right as it looks like the going on the course is really sapping the energy.


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

yes I thought he came across really well in the interview.

Niiiiiice shot at the quad bar for Alicia


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

very classy ride for their second 4*!


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## Northern (5 May 2018)

Watching from Australia  Hope the live feed doesn't fail today. Vicarage is riding better than it looks!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Yikes moment!

GOod recovery there!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Interesting, haven&#8217;t seen anyone go the full long route at the water before!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

those rails at the cross pond are riding better than the hedges ever did


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ouch !


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Ouch!!

Looking v sore


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## scats (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Ouch !
		
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That will be a sore knee tomorrow...


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			That will be a sore knee tomorrow...
		
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yeah you wouldn't want to have a second ride after that


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Seat of the pants ride for Ben there through the pond!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Go clare!!  

I thought ben had long flowing locks before realising it was the bear


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Go clare!!  

I thought ben had long flowing locks before realising it was the bear 

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decent shot at the Vee


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## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

I like Clare Abbott's horse!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

:eek3: she's flying!  *bites nails*


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

I absolutely LOVE clare - sees a stride and goes for it - which the horse also adores!! Always up for a game!

Making this look like a hunter trial!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

That looked like ben was suddenly v tired - he definitely doesn&#8217;t look rider on form as normal

Ben seems more knackered than mulry on finishing. I hope he&#8217;s ok


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ahhhh Ben!! 
Good save


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## scats (5 May 2018)

Euro Prince is a cracking horse, love him.

Ben looks knackered.


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## AmieeT (5 May 2018)

I thought he was a goner! So glad he stayed- Shame about the penalties.


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Oh no!! 

And such a fantastic round till then. Poor clare


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

yeah poor ben didn't have the easiest ride all round but must be so great to get round all the same. Shame for Clare


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## scats (5 May 2018)

Oh what a shame!


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## AmieeT (5 May 2018)

Poor Clare, that was the makings of a cracking round!


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## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

God listening to Ben talk about his horse made me tear up a bit! What a lovely bloke!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

whoops, Louise


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Time is going to be so influential today!!


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Poor Claire! Love watching EP cross country. Really liked what Ben said about mr mulry 

I&#8217;d love to see Oliver get the grand slam this weekend


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## Crazy_cat_lady (5 May 2018)

How lovely what Ben said about his horse! 

Just asked my friend I'm going on a hack with in a bit if we can delay it til a little later so i can watch Michael and Sam as he's one of my favourite riders to watch.

Not a massive fan of Oliver.


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Hmm not liking louise harwoods round. Not travelling at and a bit scared watching them


Ets. She&#8217;s retired, definitely the right decision today. Lots of swimming in the saddle to that point


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Time is going to be so influential today!!
		
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It is, and it will be really interesting to see if the ground dries up and makes it faster all round.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Louise and mr Potts putting me on the edge of my seat today, he just doesnt look positive at all


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Hmm not liking louise harwoods round. Not travelling at and a bit scared watching them
		
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Yeah bit unusual for them. You could see that last run out coming miles away.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Hmm not liking louise harwoods round. Not travelling at and a bit scared watching them


Ets. She&#8217;s retired, definitely the right decision today. Lots of swimming in the saddle to that point
		
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My thoughts exactly-such a shame though


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Kate Honeys horse is really attractive, lovely looking creature! AHHH that peck on landjng!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			My thoughts exactly-such a shame though
		
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yes.her dressage didn't look like the most comfortable ride this year either  shame.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Just me or did he just lose a shoe?


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## scats (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Hmm not liking louise harwoods round. Not travelling at and a bit scared watching them


Ets. Shes retired, definitely the right decision today. Lots of swimming in the saddle to that point
		
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I never like her rounds to be honest, definitely best decision to retire today.


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			I never like her rounds to be honest, definitely best decision to retire today.
		
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she seems to always have gigantic horses and she's so so tiny.


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			I never like her rounds to be honest, definitely best decision to retire today.
		
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They&#8217;re always a bit strung out but today was an extreme version! Saddle swimming lol


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Whee! Quick thinking there


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Hoping Alan has a good ride, he was so friendly and helpful when I was eventing Millie I always root for him


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## mypegasus (5 May 2018)

Im going to have to catch up on all the action later on - am currently sat in a rehearsal for a concert Ive been drafted in for after a fellow oboist broke her wrist abc they needed a sub.

Normally enjoy watching and chatting on this thread.

Will look at a fence analysis if the eliminations refusals etc later on.

Will dip in and out of the thread as and when I can.

Enjoy watching everyone


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

The ground looks ok on tv but must actually  be v holding for horses, some not travelling or just jumping as cleanly. And coming home knackered!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

mypegasus said:



			I&#8217;m going to have to catch up on all the action later on - am currently sat in a rehearsal for a concert I&#8217;ve been drafted in for after a fellow oboist broke her wrist abc they needed a sub.

Normally enjoy watching and chatting on this thread.

Will look at a fence analysis if the eliminations refusals etc later on.

Will dip in and out of the thread as and when I can.

Enjoy watching everyone
		
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We&#8217;ll keep up the commentary for you  
I&#8217;m also revising psych while watching badders lol


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Bronze Flight is a lovely horse, plus I just love that name. Also brill to see an older horse looking so well


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

there were very soft areas yesterday, they were spreading sand on some soggy patches so I think while it looks great from above, it's still quite holding.


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## attheponies (5 May 2018)

I love Mr Potts but tbh she is not a pretty rider, glad to see her pull up


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Lovely shot there at the vee


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## attheponies (5 May 2018)

Its jumping really well this year


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## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

Just had to pop out for a few mins and missed what happened to Claire and Europrince - she was having a great round but it sounds like she didn&#8217;t finish - can you tell me what happened please? I hope horse and rider ok


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## scats (5 May 2018)

Northern Hare said:



			Just had to pop out for a few mins and missed what happened to Claire and Europrince - she was having a great round but it sounds like she didnt finish - can you tell me what happened please? I hope horse and rider ok
		
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Fell at the bullfinch.  Both fine.


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

The whole course is riding well really isn't it - plenty of hairy moments but I think Eric Winter has been a good choice for the course designer, who was the course designed by a few years ago when the horses just didn't seem to get it?


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

That was lucky!! Glad it wasn&#8217;t an open corner 

Aww well done alan nolan! Lovely reaction ta the finish &#8220;You&#8217;re such a dude&#8221;


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

ahh chuffed for Alan, he looks pleased


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## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

Ready for Sam to start - I hope they have a great round!


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			The whole course is riding well really isn't it - plenty of hairy moments but I think Eric Winter has been a good choice for the course designer, who was the course designed by a few years ago when the horses just didn't seem to get it?
		
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Was it someone guissepe? I cant spell or remember a first name??


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## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

Thanks for the update - what a shame!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Sam looks raring to go!!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Northern Hare said:



			Thanks for the update - what a shame!
		
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Such a shame, quite unlucky really as think he may just misread the fence. Was a cracker of round, would say almost best yet to that point!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Bet the fence judges were glad they weren&#8217;t sitting by the ropes


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			Was it someone guissepe? I can&#8217;t spell or remember a first name??
		
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ah yeah, good memory 
Giuseppe Della Chiesa

I just didn't think his courses rode as well as those before or since?


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Flyer for Michael into the water


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Must be such an amazing horse to ride


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## attheponies (5 May 2018)

I liked Hugh Thomas or am I showing my age! Seems quite straightforward this year (from my armchair!)


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

that was a close one for Michael!!


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Michael!!


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## scats (5 May 2018)

Sam is worrying me a bit today...


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

I think some of the angles are quite challenging, they don't really show on the screen, but it's less trappy than some years I think.


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## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

That Canadian lady had a really nice round - super horse!


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Wheeeeee better through the pond! Nice to see willberry going for the ride too


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## attheponies (5 May 2018)

2nd round for Wilberry!


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## AmieeT (5 May 2018)

Oh no!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Nice through the hollow. That's a fence that you can't appreciate the angles on the TV really, it's all over the shop.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Ahhh there was no chance over that corner


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Unlucky


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Michael Jung and Sam also don't seem to be their usual selves today.

I also thought Mr Mulry didn't go round like he usually does, but if Ben was wrecked that could also be why. Thought Oli T looked a bit knackered too after finishing.

Shame about Clare and Europrince, usually one of my favourites to watch.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Love ringwood sky boy


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Michael and sam really seem to have got into their stride over the second half.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Michael and sam really seem to have got into their stride over the second half.
		
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Yeah, seems like it just took a little bit longer this year. So impressed with the two of them as usual, theyre made for each other


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## AmieeT (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Michael and sam really seem to have got into their stride over the second half.
		
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Was just thinking that myself, certainly going nicely now.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

If Oliver goes clear with ballaghmor and ros is clear on alby this is going to be a very very exciting year


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Really nicely through there by Tim


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Has someone fallen? Think badders commentary said fall in background


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## cavalo branco (5 May 2018)

I love Sam and Michael Jung, what a combination, if it is their last hurrah in England I'll be very sad.


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## attheponies (5 May 2018)

OH NO!


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

That quad bar looks AMAZING to jump when they take a flyer. Not that Id ever do it!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

attheponies said:



			OH NO!
		
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What happened?


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Beautiful through the hollow there Tim


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## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

LOve that Michael jumped clear in a snaffle with no martingale!


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## attheponies (5 May 2018)

nasty fall for Andy Daines!


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## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

It looks like its just Tim Price on the course at the moment? Perhaps theres a hold on the course.


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ringwood Sky Boy looks to be finishing well


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

attheponies said:



			nasty fall for Andy Daines!
		
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What happened?


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Ringwood Sky Boy looks to be finishing well 

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Yes! Looks brilliant!


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## attheponies (5 May 2018)

Tumble at Joules corner after the lake, both looked ok


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			What happened?
		
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Was he the one that kinda slow mo crumble fall over the corner?


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## Queenbee (5 May 2018)

I can't wait to see Yoshi and The Duke of Cavan.


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## scats (5 May 2018)

attheponies said:



			Tumble at Joules corner after the lake, both looked ok
		
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I missed that, horse ambulance seems to be on the move?


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Just saw horse in a horse ambulance trailer, hope all alright


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## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

That was a lovely interview with Michel Jung


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## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Tight at the top!!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Oh no  was there a hold on course there?


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

I'm a few minutes behind - this is a dangerous thread to lurk in!  What's happening :eek3:


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## teapot (5 May 2018)

Nothing on results to suggest a hold on course, not yet at least


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			Just saw horse in a horse ambulance trailer, hope all alright
		
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 horse didn't look 100% getting up.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

teapot said:



			Nothing on results to suggest a hold on course
		
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they announced that there was a hold and there's only one on the course now on the live stream I think? running 8 mins behind, but not sure what has caused the hold.


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



 horse didn't look 100% getting up.
		
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Is this Daines' horse we're talking about or have I missed one?


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## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve seen Denis Mesples and OREGON DE LA VIGNE	- according to the start list he was to start between Tim Price and Lydia Hannon.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Lydias horse holding back a little


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## teapot (5 May 2018)

Wonder if it was the French horse?


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			I'm a few minutes behind - this is a dangerous thread to lurk in!  What's happening :eek3:
		
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In general the course is riding well, but its very holding & some horses not travelling at all. Louise potts was doing a lot of swimming in the saddle with no response so she very wisely retired.
Of course then you have horses who are just bouncy and enthusiastic and launching themselves, like clare abbots (fell at the bullfinch, horse misread fence) and michael jung were sam just went into turbo mode


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Is this Daines' horse we're talking about or have I missed one?
		
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Daines'


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Northern Hare said:



			I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve seen Denis Mesples and OREGON DE LA VIGNE	- according to the start list he was to start between Tim Price and Lydia Hannon.
		
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ahh think you're right there NH.


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Daines'
		
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I see - glad it's not another one down, but hope it's ok...


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

teapot said:



			Wonder if it was the French horse?
		
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That's what I'm wondering too, we didn't see any of his round but Tim Price did complete and Lydia was due to start after the French rider.

Lydia's horse is a bit :O


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Whooooo some awkward leaps!


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## attheponies (5 May 2018)

Oh dear, hope he is ok.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Oops! Wrong way!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

nooooo how can another person go the wrong way!  You'd know the course inside out!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Oops another one went the wrong way


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Hi

Im watching it as well Did anyone know that the legendary showjumpin commentator Mike Tucker died 6 weeks ago?-I just learned that when I watched the beginning of the trials this morning -I had no idea


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Did that horse just run over the fence judges and camera crew?!


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Imogens horse just didnt seem to lock on-and did he knock over some steward/judge stuff?


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			nooooo how can another person go the wrong way!  You'd know the course inside out!
		
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I can guarantee I would also go the wrong way &#128514;


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## AmieeT (5 May 2018)

Thats what I thought! Was a bit baffled with the camera angles then!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			Hi

Im watching it as well Did anyone know that the legendary showjumpin commentator Mike Tucker died 6 weeks ago?-I just learned that when I watched the beginning of the trials this morning -I had no idea
		
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yes it was covered in the press quite heavily and there were threads on here


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

AmieeT said:



			Thats what I thought! Was a bit baffled with the camera angles then!
		
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I quite liked the spinny kaleidoscope view!


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## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

Yes, I think he did - in Huntsmans Close - bits debris on the course after the last part of the combination!


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

I thought he did ? think shes doing not too bad in the XC


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

anyone seen anything about Denis Mesples?  Nothing on the live results either way :confused3:


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes so did I- dont think a view like that has never been done as far as i remember


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Loving this lime green matchy that Danielle is sporting!


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			anyone seen anything about Denis Mesples?  Nothing on the live results either way :confused3:
		
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Nope, I haven't seen anything either so hope it's not too serious  

I'll give it a google and see if there's anything on twitter


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

No - I must have missed a bit there what happened? - what has happened to that famous brush fence Capability's cutting


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## teapot (5 May 2018)

Nothing on twitter so far re the French horse


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Hi all, hope it's ok if I join in! It's the first year in a while I haven't been working on a Saturday, so enjoying watching Badminton live!

Some great rounds so far but I'm definitely hoping for Ollie to get the grand slam!


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## teapot (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			No - I must have missed a bit there what happened? - what has happened to that famous brush fence Capability's cutting
		
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Wrong event - that's at Burghley.


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			No - I must have missed a bit there what happened? - what has happened to that famous brush fence Capability's cutting
		
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think you're thinking of Burghley. The course description is here 
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/2018-cross-country-course/


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Wishfilly said:



			Some great rounds so far but I'm definitely hoping for Ollie to get the grand slam!
		
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I wonder how easy he's finding it to sleep in his lorry after his first ride


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes s o would I . most of the time its always the aussies who win everything


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			I wonder how easy he's finding it to sleep in his lorry after his first ride 

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I'm seriously impressed by anyone who can sleep on demand


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## teapot (5 May 2018)

Odd that they're updating results after the French horse was meant to have run.


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			I'm seriously impressed by anyone who can sleep on demand
		
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I can't sleep at night when I'm not about to ride around a terrifying course for potentially rather a lot of money...  If he can pop off for a sleep in between high octane rides, with this level of pressure, I suspect he's not really human!


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

I agree hes brilliant


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			I can't sleep at night when I'm not about to ride around a terrifying course for potentially rather a lot of money...  If he can pop off for a sleep in between high octane rides, with this level of pressure, I suspect he's not really human!
		
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You could be onto something there... I'm the same, if I wake up then it takes me ages to drop off again even when the most exciting thing I have to look forward to is a trip to the supermarket


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

teapot said:



			Odd that they're updating results after the French horse was meant to have run.
		
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I wonder have they withdrawn and it's not been updated?

Eventing Nation seems to have a good twitter stream, and no mention of them starting/finishing there. Odd.


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

I dont blame you .Danielle Dunn was eliminated at the BHS Table


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Oh no!! poor danielle

Wish pippa's horse would loook where he's going


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

I sort of can't believe Ollie's actually sleeping, but I'd hide away for a few hours in his position too! 

Poor Dani!


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

love Pippa and love Billy Beware


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## teapot (5 May 2018)

Ah finally updated - French horse was withdrawn


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## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

Go Pippa


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			You could be onto something there... I'm the same, if I wake up then it takes me ages to drop off again even when the most exciting thing I have to look forward to is a trip to the supermarket 

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I find it hard not to get trapped repeatedly visualising every moment of what I need to do in the supermarket - don't forget the coffee / bread / etc! I can only imagine how much time I'd waste agonising over whether I knew how many strides / where to turn...


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

aw no Pippa!


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## Fragglerock (5 May 2018)

Pippa looking untidy and surprised she didn't take the longer route at the lake.


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			aw no Pippa!
		
Click to expand...

Exactly


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			aw no Pippa!
		
Click to expand...

Horse totally refused to look and lock onto that.


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Hmm pippa given a clear, not sure Id agree with that!


Ets. Now been corrected bu ground jury & given 20pen


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			I find it hard not to get trapped repeatedly visualising every moment of what I need to do in the supermarket - don't forget the coffee / bread / etc! I can only imagine how much time I'd waste agonising over whether I knew how many strides / where to turn...
		
Click to expand...

I know someone who can nap on the side of the rugby pitch before she's due to go on as a sub, lol. Some people can just sleep anywhere.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Oh sh--t yes so it s apologies for that 

Americans are in the lead at the moment according to Ian stark


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			I know someone who can nap on the side of the rugby pitch before she's due to go on as a sub, lol. Some people can just sleep anywhere.
		
Click to expand...

I'm seriously envious!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			I know someone who can nap on the side of the rugby pitch before she's due to go on as a sub, lol. Some people can just sleep anywhere.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I have no doubt OH could do the same. I'm the complete opposite but it's a good thing to be able to do, for sure!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			Oh sh--t yes so it s apologies for that 

Americans are in the lead at the moment according to Ian stark
		
Click to expand...

Nope is michael jung


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Sad to see Pippa retire but probably the right decision.


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			Horse totally refused to look and lock onto that.
		
Click to expand...

yep, could see it coming sadly 
she's retired now too, he looks a big strong thing though.

Veronica and Lauren had a very nice round too.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

shame for pippa but looked like an awkward ride today.


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

Sad to see Pippa retire


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes I was watching that -Pippa funnel decided to retire on Billy Beware - not as good this year -Has ian stark  retired as a competitor  or is he still riding & commentating at the same time


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

I like pippa horse but does seem rather large to turn! Beautiful model though


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

I know -my favourite Rider too.-americans in the lead


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			yes I was watching that -Pippa funnel decided to retire on Billy Beware - not as good this year -Has ian stark  retired as a competitor  or is he still riding & commentating at the same time
		
Click to expand...

He's been retired from competing since 2007


----------



## AmieeT (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			yes I was watching that -Pippa funnel decided to retire on Billy Beware - not as good this year -Has ian stark  retired as a competitor  or is he still riding & commentating at the same time
		
Click to expand...

I thought hed be retired a while now? 

Good decision from Pippa.


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			shame for pippa but looked like an awkward ride today.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely - always sorry not to see her finish, but he's not being terribly compliant today!


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Absolutely


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			I know -my favourite Rider too.-americans in the lead
		
Click to expand...

No Michael jung is german in 1st and oli townend british in 2nd


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Hmmm yes I did notice


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			I know -my favourite Rider too.-americans in the lead
		
Click to expand...

What do you mean? definitely Michael Jung in the lead so far.


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			What do you mean? definitely Michael Jung in the lead so far.
		
Click to expand...

He's American now, didn't you know?


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes I know hes german - someone said america in the lead so far after XC. .


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			He's American now, didn't you know? 

Click to expand...

Silly me!

Hair raising through the pond there


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			yes I know hes german - someone said america in the lead so far after XC. .
		
Click to expand...

But they&#8217;re aren&#8217;t!!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			yes I know hes german - someone said america in the lead so far after XC. .
		
Click to expand...

Only you have said that I think!


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

No I didnt know that at all my apologies


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

I wonder if it's the sunshine that is making that cross pond a bit iffy now. Earlier in the mornign it was riding really nicely.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Dad nearly just ended our badders viewing early by chucking the ball for the dog and smashing it into the tv


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## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

Good luck to Ros Canter and Allstar B!


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Ros Canter starting, fingers crossed for her!


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

No no  I didnt -I thought I just heard someone say that . . Rosalind canter has started (GB) so hope she does ok


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

A few riders living a bit dangerously here. 

Good luck Ros!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			Dad nearly just ended our badders viewing early by chucking the ball for the dog and smashing it into the tv 

Click to expand...

Make them go outside to play!!


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes I just saw her starting Im sure shell do well


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

oooh, what happened there?


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Ooh unlucky flora. Is that the first run out at the VV?

There&#8217;s been a fall but can&#8217;t think of any other faults at it


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## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

Who is the women commentating?


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

I think so OM, only had that other fall that we saw


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Make them go outside to play!!  

Click to expand...

Theyve been outside helping in the garden 
Dad came in earlier saying wheres my trowel then, spaniel?


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

DiNozzo said:



			Who is the women commentating?
		
Click to expand...

Ellie Kelly I think


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Flora harris has got home safe & sound  had an error at the trakhener


----------



## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

Thanks!


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Ros Canter is riding beautifully. Go Ros!


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes thats right 

Ros canter is doing ok - its either her or flora that rides with a long rein


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ros's horse looking Super keen!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

I like Ross horse!!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			yes thats right 

Ros canter is doing ok - its either her or flora that rides with a long rein
		
Click to expand...

No one rides as long as louise harwood


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

don't want to say anything to jinx Ros yet!

think Yoshi also ran over the stewards there, oops


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Ros rides with a long rein. But she is well in control. Another rider showing you don't need to overbit your horses and yank them around to do well at this level. (Just thinking of that other thread!)


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Oh no Yoshi! 

Ros going great!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			I like Ros&#8217;s horse!!
		
Click to expand...

Yes and she's a tiny dot on him just like Louise is on her giants but she seems to have a much more harmonious style.


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Whoops another horse gone through the fence judges and cameras! 


You&#8217;d have thought they would have learnt from the last trampling


----------



## AmieeT (5 May 2018)

Oops, shame from Yoshi, hes a very forward rider! 

Yay- Tina time!


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			I like Ros&#8217;s horse!!
		
Click to expand...

Hard not to, the way it's going!


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Ros horse is looking so classy


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Izzys horse reminds me of apache sauce! Love her turquoise as well


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Hard not to, the way it's going!
		
Click to expand...

True! Am a fan of big gentlemannly horses 


Has Izzy always ridden in the blues?

Fence judges really need to move now


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Tina cook is helping Ian commentating


----------



## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

Agree - Tina is a really excellent commentator!


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Cameramen avoided a trampling that time at least


----------



## teapot (5 May 2018)

Think with Louise you have to remember she's had some serious injuries in the past which still influence her riding. Plus she's tiny on big hosses.


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			Izzy&#8217;s horse reminds me of apache sauce!
		
Click to expand...

yes! What a shame about the mistake


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Those angled logs look horrible! So easy to have a run out.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

so do i -very smart Tina cook is a good commentator


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Alby looks like hes still flying!


----------



## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

Thats great to see Ros Canter home safely with an excellent round!


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

What a great round from Ros!!!


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

well done Ros! absolutely brilliant round!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			Those angled logs look horrible! So easy to have a run out.
		
Click to expand...

They jumped really really well ealier on, the shadows must have moved to a more awkward place making it more difficult to see Part B now


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Pretty decent time for Ros, on a day like today.  Good result!


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Go Ros, great round! 

Do we think anyone will get the time? I can't see how anyone could make much time up on that?


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Go on then ros! Surely if tomorrow goes well shell be well up for team selection!


----------



## AmieeT (5 May 2018)

So happy for Ros, what a brilliant catch up!


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Shes in the lead -over Michael Jung William fox pitt coming up soon on fernhill pimms


----------



## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

I'm so pleased for Ros!


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

as it's not been mentioned, Yoshi has retired as well.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

shes done well i agree


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

I am too


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Wishfilly said:



			Go Ros, great round! 

Do we think anyone will get the time? I can't see how anyone could make much time up on that?
		
Click to expand...

Dunno, the ground must be drying all the time in that sunshine and there are still a good couple of hours before the end...


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			True! Am a fan of big gentlemannly horses 


Has Izzy always ridden in the blues?

Fence judges really need to move now 

Click to expand...

For a few years, at least, I think? 

You'd think the judges would've learned from last time!


Great to see that finish for Ros Canter


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Love that Tina still gets advice from her mother!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

I reckon clare abbot would have been the closest to time if had finished.
Joseph Murphey is later on & he&#8217;s usually pretty quick


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

FLYER into the lake for Georgie


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Yes it was Georgie strang on now just done the lake -fences 9& 10 -had a dirty stop & took the long way round


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Georgies horse just seemed to have nothing to take off with!


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Dunno, the ground must be drying all the time in that sunshine and there are still a good couple of hours before the end...
		
Click to expand...

That's true, if the ground dries a lot times could get faster.


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Just looked at the replay - I thought I saw her horse change legs just coming out of the lake & approaching the one she had a dirty stop at


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

wouldn't call that a dirty stop really?it's a hell of an angle so really easy to glance off it.


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			wouldn't call that a dirty stop really?it's a hell of an angle so really easy to glance off it.
		
Click to expand...

I definitely wouldnt either!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

WFP is also one that might make time, he always seems to have an inbuilt minute marker lol


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			I reckon clare abbot would have been the closest to time if had finished.
Joseph Murphey is later on & he&#8217;s usually pretty quick
		
Click to expand...

I do agree they looked close to the time, but on such a technical course I guess pushing for the time could lead to mistakes =/ 

Oh no Georgie!


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## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Where is she going!! Heartening to see that even the top riders have brain freeze moments!


----------



## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

Anyone know what time Oli's next ride is? I need to go and pick up a car battery from the garage for the yard, but don't want to miss Oli's round!!


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

oops, looks like Georgie has eliminated herself.


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Ahhh Georgie!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

oooh what's georgie doing.?


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Okey dokey -georgie just eliminated herself jumped the fence twice


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			wouldn't call that a dirty stop really?it's a hell of an angle so really easy to glance off it.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. Didn&#8217;t look dirty at all! 

Think she&#8217;s eliminated anyway now after jumping twice


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

HashRouge said:



			Anyone know what time Oli's next ride is? I need to go and pick up a car battery from the garage for the yard, but don't want to miss Oli's round!!
		
Click to expand...

4.34

start times here
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-start-list-2018/


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

HashRouge said:



			Anyone know what time Oli's next ride is? I need to go and pick up a car battery from the garage for the yard, but don't want to miss Oli's round!!
		
Click to expand...

Hes second last, think 4.20 or something


----------



## teapot (5 May 2018)

HashRouge said:



			Anyone know what time Oli's next ride is? I need to go and pick up a car battery from the garage for the yard, but don't want to miss Oli's round!!
		
Click to expand...

Just after half 4


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

eliminated herself -yet to be clarified though -she dropped her reins . William fox pitt on now


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			wouldn't call that a dirty stop really?it's a hell of an angle so really easy to glance off it.
		
Click to expand...

Miscommunication, didn't quite get the idea - let's not blame the horses, who are pretty much heroic out there.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			WFP is also one that might make time, he always seems to have an inbuilt minute marker lol
		
Click to expand...

Paul Tapner, Oli T and Mark Todd on their second horses and Jonelle Price are still to go too


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Nice to see pimms back at this level


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

WFP really does make Pimms look tiny lol


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## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			4.34

start times here
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-start-list-2018/

Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks! I'd better go soon in that case!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			Paul Tapner, Oli T and Mark Todd on their second horses and Jonelle Price are still to go too
		
Click to expand...

True! And wfp who never looks as though going quickly looks quick today!


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Yes -I know now -william fox pitt doing ok


----------



## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Agreed. Didn&#8217;t look dirty at all! 

Think she&#8217;s eliminated anyway now after jumping twice
		
Click to expand...

Looks like a really super horse - really good jumps into and through the lake and a shame about the glance off on the third element.  Good news that she&#8217;s not eliminated!


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Georgie hasn't been pulled off the course yet. So perhaps you can rejump A after all?


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			True! And wfp who never looks as though going quickly looks quick today!
		
Click to expand...

and you never know, someone may just surprise you too lol


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

wfp had a stop & retired


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

nooooo william!


----------



## AmieeT (5 May 2018)

Gutted for WFP!


----------



## teapot (5 May 2018)

Has anyone noticed that the riders who do the BBC course walk bits then have problems at the fence? Happened a few times over the last few years. Coincidence?


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

surprised to see that from WFP, sad to see them retire.

those logs seem to really be catching people out now, I wonder if it is the shadows changing.


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			WFP really does make Pimms look tiny lol
		
Click to expand...

WFP makes everything look tiny!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Wow that was a bit naughty for WFP! 

New position of  the shadows & crowd having a big impact there. 

At least the jump judges didn&#8217;t get trampled lol


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

That was a disappointingly early finish for WFP


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

has she not ?  maybe they did give her another chance then


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

teapot said:



			Has anyone noticed that the riders who do the BBC course walk bits then have problems at the fence? Happened a few times over the last few years. Coincidence?
		
Click to expand...

They'll have to only pick people who haven't got 4* rides next year


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Shame to see William retire. I agree that the light must've changed there, as it was riding much more easily earlier in the day. 

Glad to see frangible pins working and helping the riders.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes very


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

I think clare balding does a very good interview


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Ah poor William, bloooooooomin hell thank god for frangible fences


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Yes i agreee theyre the best


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ros comes across really well doesn't she


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			They'll have to only pick people who haven't got 4* rides next year 

Click to expand...

I&#8217;m surprised they were able to get competitors this year to talk through combos, us eventers are usually very superstitious (and apparently for good reason too )


----------



## AmieeT (5 May 2018)

Shes very modest and humble, quite lovely to see.


----------



## Lammy (5 May 2018)

My non-horsey dad really does not like Tina Cook's commentary and I gotta say I agree with him! He's counting the amount of times she's blamed the horse for a mistake and it is actually really grating on me when she does it. 
Ros Canter has done so well though!!


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Ros comes across really well doesn't she 

Click to expand...

Yeah, really genuine and nice


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

Lovely lovely interview with Ros Canter


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

No I didnt notice it


----------



## Northern Hare (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Ros comes across really well doesn't she 

Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely agree - she&#8217;s very professional, and comes across really well.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

definitely


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

I agree that Ros comes across as a lovely person and a great role model for young people in the sport.


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Really like will furlongs horse


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Great to see another willberry too!


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			Really like will furlong&#8217;s horse
		
Click to expand...

lovely big grey.

rode through the two logs nicely too


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

22 years old. Impressive.


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			lovely big grey.

rode through the two logs nicely too
		
Click to expand...

Really really like this mare. Stunning and agree through the close really well


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

heartstopping moment then with Imogen at the VV!! :eek3: good horse!


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

Love seeing Wilberry&#8217;s go round


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			22 years old. Impressive.
		
Click to expand...

Only just 2 years my senior... cant imagine being close to the level or riding needed for badminton


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			22 years old. Impressive.
		
Click to expand...

puts me to shame - I'll be 22 in August and will do everything in my power to avoid jumping xc


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Very good horse for will furlong.
Is it wrong if he reminds me of a young WFP? Seem to have very similar styles!


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			heartstopping moment then with Imogen at the VV!! :eek3: good horse!
		
Click to expand...

Yes!


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Wow Imogen is flying! Super strong horse.


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Very good horse for will furlong.
Is it wrong if he reminds me of a young WFP? Seem to have very similar styles!
		
Click to expand...

a smaller WFP, lol. looks to be a lovely partnership and he's making very good decisions and really riding what's underneath him. very impressed so far!


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

ANOTHER problem at Huntsmans.


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			a smaller WFP, lol. looks to be a lovely partnership and he's making very good decisions and really riding what's underneath him. very impressed so far!
		
Click to expand...

Agree totally with this


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

be interesting to see what Andrew Nicholson says, especially with the huntsman causing so many issues.


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

The sun is now on part B whereas part A is still dark.

Her horse never saw/locked on to the jump!


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			puts me to shame - I'll be 22 in August and will do everything in my power to avoid jumping xc
		
Click to expand...

Meanwhile, I've got nearly a decade on him and, while I love a bit of xc, I can't handle the pressure of competitions, and even an 80 would give me the shudders


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

That looked like the quickest round so far from Imogen?


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			Wow Imogen is flying! Super strong horse.
		
Click to expand...

a pretty fast round !


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Don't much like those red boots. Red alarms me though so maybe it's just me!


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Really love bonza!


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			a pretty fast round !
		
Click to expand...

She looks happy doesn't she!


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes me too very nice


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

So many greys this year


----------



## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

Is it just me or is Tapner's horse getting in very close to everything?


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Love Pauls red matchy


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Paul's not hanging about


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			Love Paul&#8217;s red matchy 

Click to expand...

You don't miss him coming, do you!


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			Love Paul&#8217;s red matchy 

Click to expand...

Me too!

Interesting to hear Tina and Andrew's views on the rule change, as I've mostly heard riders being quite positive about it.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

diference between will's horse and Paul's there, Will's is taking a bit of organising whereas Paul's seems super quickly adjustable. The difference that all that experience makes I guess. Great so see Will home though, a fab debut


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Will&#8217;s horse looks really pleased with himself! Made me laugh lol. It was a bit &#8220;all that fuss over nothing&#8221;


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			diference between will's horse and Paul's there, Will's is taking a bit of organising whereas Paul's seems super adjustable. The difference that all that experience makes I guess. Great so see Will home though, a fab debut 

Click to expand...

Good observations-two lovely horses and great riders 

Theres just something about a grey horse...


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

I can certainly imagine myself living in badminton house!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			I can certainly imagine myself living in badminton house!
		
Click to expand...

wouldn't say no, would you ?!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

I like andrew as a commentator, he's not the most chatty but he's quite funny


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			wouldn't say no, would you ?! 

Click to expand...

When I win the lottery/marry incredibly rich Ill invite you all for a HHO house warming party


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Can we have a jolly round the park?


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			I like andrew as a commentator, he's not the most chatty but he's quite funny 

Click to expand...

Me too...  But that's not news.  There aren't many positions I wouldn't like him in


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

argh this french horse is giving me palpitations!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Me too...  But that's not news.  There aren't many positions I wouldn't like him in 

Click to expand...

Quiet down now, you're in public


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Meanwhile, I've got nearly a decade on him and, while I love a bit of xc, I can't handle the pressure of competitions, and even an 80 would give me the shudders 

Click to expand...

hehe, I'm the opposite. Don't mind competing and the pressure at all, but non-showjumps and fences over 80cm look scary! I do wonder how much of that was B being scary jumping non-showjumps and over 80cm though.


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Can we have a jolly round the park? 

Click to expand...

Of course! Well have a champagne fuelled fun ride followed by a party. Plenty of stabling for anyone who wants to come along. Send me your address for a gold stamped wax sealed invite


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Just for a bit of contrast, I love a nice chestnut even if this one isn't jumping that well!


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Quiet down now, you're in public  

Click to expand...

Never stopped me before...


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

French horse really attractive. Stunning glowing chestnut! 

Imogens interview is sweet


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			Of course! We&#8217;ll have a champagne fuelled fun ride followed by a party. Plenty of stabling for anyone who wants to come along. Send me your address for a gold stamped wax sealed invite 

Click to expand...

On it&#8217;s way 
Also I want to jump the Xc with Billy, he&#8217;d love it!


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			On it&#8217;s way 
Also I want to jump the Xc with Billy, he&#8217;d love it!
		
Click to expand...

Okay, its everyones job to find me someone very minted to marry. Tinder just doesnt seem to be doing the job! 

Anyhow, back to the horses, Lissa green is looking good!


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			hehe, I'm the opposite. Don't mind competing and the pressure at all, but non-showjumps and fences over 80cm look scary! I do wonder how much of that was B being scary jumping non-showjumps and over 80cm though.
		
Click to expand...

Ah well indeed - on the right horse, everything comes together and seems much more achievable...

I jumped a little log pile out hacking the other day on my youngster, and she took it on bravely and gave it some space, so obviously I'm now aiming her at Badminton 2020


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Imogen - you have to showjump tomorrow! You can't go on the lash tonight!


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

I do like Ashleys horse with his massive head!


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Imogen said you couldn;t see the 2nd log - no wonder the horses are struggling there.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

you'd be hoping to go through the trees as a cloud passed over wouldn't you, take some of the contrast away.


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Imogen sounds great fun! 

Loving the purple matchy!


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

What has happened to Dee Hankey? What a shame.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Dee Hankey just retired


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Ah well indeed - on the right horse, everything comes together and seems much more achievable...

I jumped a little log pile out hacking the other day on my youngster, and she took it on bravely and gave it some space, so obviously I'm now aiming her at Badminton 2020 

Click to expand...

I jumped my first 90cm two weeks ago on Arnold the supercob. We may have had everything down, but with that sort of improvement we also may be aiming for Badminton 2020. Just need to hope they'd let me borrow Arnold, and they cut out the dressage portion


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Wonder why Dee Hankey retired?


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			Wonder why Dee Hankey retired?
		
Click to expand...

she had a refusal at fence 3


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Lissa looks knackered as well!


----------



## Nicnac (5 May 2018)

Pretty cool having Lucinda Green washing your horse down after XC! Great round Lissa


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			Lissa looks knackered as well!
		
Click to expand...

must be quite warm out there now


----------



## teapot (5 May 2018)

Nicnac said:



			Pretty cool having Lucinda Green washing your horse down after XC! Great round Lissa
		
Click to expand...

Most experience groom on the circuit? Not to mention walking the course with her


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

Absolutely top class round from Lissa and Hollyfield


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			Lissa looks knackered as well!
		
Click to expand...

Whereas the horse looked like he could have gone round again!


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

This Spanish partnership look to be going well!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

this spanish horse is quite bold


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Wishfilly said:



			This Spanish partnership look to be going well!
		
Click to expand...

It's looking like a very useful round isn't it. Shame his dressage wasn't quite as good cos it looks like a very nice ride xc.


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Jonty and Art should be starting soon.... Come on you two!!!


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

They are off!

I am one of the 6000!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			Jonty and Art should be starting soon.... Come on you two!!!
		
Click to expand...

I know... sooooo enjoyed watching them last year and his test yesterday was a stunner. *fingers crossed*


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Jonty on course now


----------



## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

Super ride from the Spanish combination!!


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

HashRouge said:



			Super ride from the Spanish combination!!
		
Click to expand...

very well deserved celebration as they finished too hehe


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			They are off!

I am one of the 6000!
		
Click to expand...

me too!  what is tina saying?! like we'd be nightmare owners , lol


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			It's looking like a very useful round isn't it. Shame his dressage wasn't quite as good cos it looks like a very nice ride xc.
		
Click to expand...

It's a real shame his dressage wasn't as good because that was a great round. I imagine he would be pleased with a top 20 finish though?


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Tom crisp on now - jonty evans did huntsmans close brilliantly


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			me too!  what is tina saying?! like we'd be nightmare owners , lol 

Click to expand...

She does not seem to understand that he not actually owned by 6000 people!! That we bought Art for Jonty to own!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Smart through huntsmans there Jonty <3


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Living a little dangerously!!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

wheeeee!   come on Art!


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

not going to say anything about Jonty's round until he completes either, don't want to jinx him!


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Ouch at the V. Both up though


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

ooh, that looked a nasty fall. hope both are alright, good to see them both up.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

ooof, that looked painful  shame for becky 
Can someone tell tina not to gasp, lol


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Tina keeps gasping - it is quite annoying.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Jonty has an issue with the fence & shouted **** twice


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Jonty NOOOOOO what a pity.


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

Oh Art, Jonty looks panicked


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Poor jonty, really panicking there


----------



## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

It was a hairy round from the start sadly.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Nooooooo

noooooo    Ahhh Jonty. What a shame. At least they are both OK.


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Oh no Jonty! Glad both have walked away!


----------



## Nicnac (5 May 2018)

Bloody hell - hope Art's ok. Can't have my ear hairs hurt!


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Poor Jonty had a panic.  Art looked quite relaxed about it!


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Poor Jonty, what a shame - but bless him for his concern there - trying to break the pins himself to free his horse.


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

poor Jonty. he looks gutted.
hope they're both okay, and credit to him for being so quick to jump off and try and free him.

reminds me of the time that one of the italian riders had a fall and her and horse nearly got stuck under the big white oxer rails


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

I thought it was quite a nice round till then tbh

Aww and he went so well in the dressage


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Poor Jonty, what a shame - but bless him for his concern there - trying to break the pins himself to free his horse.
		
Click to expand...

I know!  I really think they have a lovely relationship and he clearly adores the horse.


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

My heart really, reallt went out to Jonty there... lump in throat moment 

My heart broke when he was shouting for help and art Just stood there so quietly


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

I do quite like Sportsfield Othello


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

All my hopes are on Oli now


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			My heart broke when he was shouting for help and art Just stood there so quietly
		
Click to expand...


Mine too  
He looked perfectly fine though..there's always next time.


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			Jonty has an issue with the fence & shouted **** twice
		
Click to expand...

Did you need to write what he shouted? A simple he panicked, no need to be so literal.


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Supertrooper said:



			All my hopes are on Oli now
		
Click to expand...

Yeah  me too, I was really hoping for a great result for Jonty but I'd love to see Oli do well today, his test yesterday was class.


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			My heart really, reallt went out to Jonty there... lump in throat moment 

My heart broke when he was shouting for help and art Just stood there so quietly
		
Click to expand...


Yes could have been nasty if he&#8217;d panicked. Bless him for standing still xx


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			I know!  I really think they have a lovely relationship and he clearly adores the horse.
		
Click to expand...

If you have to see an accident like that (and I hope they're both ok), it's lovely to see such concern and care - screw the competition, just love the horse.


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			My heart really, reallt went out to Jonty there... lump in throat moment 

My heart broke when he was shouting for help and art Just stood there so quietly
		
Click to expand...

Same, he loves his horse so much. Poor johnty


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## EventingMum (5 May 2018)

The pressure he must feel will be immense, I feel for him. At least they both walked away and there's always another day.


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Looking forward to Janelle's round! 

That was a horrible fall from the Australian rider


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Ouch!! That was a hard enough fall for warren. Did the rail go down in front when they left the leg?


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Silvia has such a pretty face, hope both are okay that really was a crashing fall.


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

It did my heart was in my mouth


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Nasty fall for that rider there... 

Looking forward to Jonnelles ride


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes she has -very pretty


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Joseph Murphy going well so far


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

EventingMum said:



			The pressure he must feel will be immense, I feel for him. At least they both walked away and there's always another day.
		
Click to expand...

I hope most of his owners are supportive and just glad he and the horse are ok. I agree he must put himself under a lot of pressure.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

nicely done by Jonelle too there


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Wishfilly said:



			I hope most of his owners are supportive and just glad he and the horse are ok. I agree he must put himself under a lot of pressure.
		
Click to expand...

They can&#8217;t be that annoyed, he did win belton couple of weeks ago


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

jonnelle is doing ok  except for a bad mistake she just made -she was lucky not to fall


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Wishfilly said:



			I hope most of his owners are supportive and just glad he and the horse are ok. I agree he must put himself under a lot of pressure.
		
Click to expand...

At least on the FB page for the crowdfunding it's def very supportive and everyone just delighted that they both walked away   and yeah fab result at Belton recently, I'm sure he has lots of good support


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			They can&#8217;t be that annoyed, he did win belton couple of weeks ago
		
Click to expand...

I think I probably own a hair, however it doesn&#8217;t bother me if he wins or doesn&#8217;t win. Just love the combination and want them to be safe.


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			They can&#8217;t be that annoyed, he did win belton couple of weeks ago
		
Click to expand...

You would hope so! 

Slight mistake from Jonelle there. 

Piggy on course now


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## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Wishfilly said:



			I hope most of his owners are supportive and just glad he and the horse are ok. I agree he must put himself under a lot of pressure.
		
Click to expand...

He was bought via crowd funding donations. He is owned by jonty.


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Jonelles round is a little hairy! Not sure who is calling the shots lol


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Jonelle was lucky to stay on, be interesting to see if she can make the time up later. 

Hunstmans now seems to be riding a bit better too.


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			At least on the FB page for the crowdfunding it's def very supportive and everyone just delighted that they both walked away   and yeah fab result at Belton recently, I'm sure he has lots of good support 

Click to expand...

Delighted to hear it, though I expected nothing less!


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			At least on the FB page for the crowdfunding it's def very supportive and everyone just delighted that they both walked away   and yeah fab result at Belton recently, I'm sure he has lots of good support 

Click to expand...

That's good  I hope it works as a model for him as it could help other partnerships in the future.


----------



## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Classic is such a fun horse to watch. Id love to have a go! One of my favourites certainly


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Jonelles round is a little hairy! Not sure who is calling the shots lol
		
Click to expand...

Haha, I thought that!


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Piggy French doing ok


----------



## Sallyfinn (5 May 2018)

Sorry to be late to the party and I'm sure it's already been said but why is Tina Cook not riding?


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Joseph Murphy has finished too, looks like he was also fairly quick!


----------



## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

I love Piggy, I just want her to go well!


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Sallyfinn said:



			Sorry to be late to the party and I'm sure it's already been said but why is Tina Cook not riding?
		
Click to expand...

Recovering from a shoulder injury.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			He was bought via crowd funding donations. He is owned by jonty.
		
Click to expand...

Yes. everyone jokes about having 6000 owners but that's def the case  It's nice to feel like you have a bit of an extra connection though, as a mere bystander and they've been really great on FB, loved jonty's little videos leading up to Badminton. i know it was controversial but I think they've handled it well.


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Sallyfinn said:



			Sorry to be late to the party and I'm sure it's already been said but why is Tina Cook not riding?
		
Click to expand...

She dislocated her shoulder a few weeks ago, and didn't feel fit to be riding this year unfortunately.


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Sallyfinn said:



			Sorry to be late to the party and I'm sure it's already been said but why is Tina Cook not riding?
		
Click to expand...

She has an injury from a fall so not fit enough to ride at 4*

Well done Joseph!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

So happy for Joseph, he rode a really good round!


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

either retired or injured . Piggy French doing ok


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			either retired or injured . Piggy French doing ok
		
Click to expand...

Who retiree or injured?!


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Ooh bad fall!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Oh jeez that was unlucky


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Oh no Piggy! Looking like a super round until that point.


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Yes. everyone jokes about having 6000 owners but that's def the case  It's nice to feel like you have a bit of an extra connection though, as a mere bystander and they've been really great on FB, loved jonty's little videos leading up to Badminton. i know it was controversial but I think they've handled it well.
		
Click to expand...

as much as it was controversial, I also don't see how it's any worse than the race horse owners who advertise for people to buy into syndicates or buy a leg of a racehorse.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

I take back what i said about piggy french - shes just had a fall- into the lake - she didnt count the strides before jumping into the water


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

:O 

Poor piggy!! That was very unlucky, just caught a knee on way up?


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

glad to see both up and on their feet.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

I know -I reckon she didnt count the stride -she banged herself what a shame


----------



## teapot (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			I take back what i said about piggy french - shes just had a fall- into the lake - she didnt count the strides before jumping into the water
		
Click to expand...

Errrrrr the horse caught a knee


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			I take back what i said about piggy french - shes just had a fall- into the lake - she didnt count the strides before jumping into the water
		
Click to expand...

Nothing like a bit of judgmental critism...! 

Unlucky, not a mistake. Horse took off then hesitated slightly. Was a perfectly ok distance from Fence to take off from imo.


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

oooh Jonelle, if she hadn't had that mistake earlier and had to go the long route she'd have got inside the time!

very impressive.


----------



## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			I take back what i said about piggy french - shes just had a fall- into the lake - she didnt count the strides before jumping into the water
		
Click to expand...

Um, yes, she did. Horse went to put down again and tripped over the top of it.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes she did shame eh? still theres next time -


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Well done Jonelle! Making the time look possible! She's going to be hard to catch!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

As if you'd get to 4* and not stride out combinations


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			I know -I reckon she didnt count the stride -she banged herself what a shame
		
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with her not counting strides.  Horse put down onto the fence..


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			yes she did shame eh? still theres next time -
		
Click to expand...

What are you on about?!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			As if you'd get to 4* and not stride out combinations 

Click to expand...

Nah, just wing it. More interesting for spectators 
And heart stopping for fence judges


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Harry Meade should be starting soon too


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Maybe the horse didn't count the strides.  Shame on her, not giving him an abacus in his stable, and sending him out to walk the course himself.


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Good grief, that was a leap!


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

The ground by the shogun ditch is looking quite cut up now. I hope it doesn't cause problems for anyone.


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			Harry Meade should be starting soon too 

Click to expand...

Always a good thing - fingers crossed for a good day for him!


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

another fall, hope both are okay as that did look sore


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

apologies


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

the sunlight is really changing all these combinations isn't it.


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Maybe the horse didn't count the strides.  Shame on her, not giving him an abacus in his stable, and sending him out to walk the course himself.
		
Click to expand...

 
Wonder how a horse would count a stride, 4 feet down or the slight pause in gait?


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Always a good thing - fingers crossed for a good day for him!
		
Click to expand...

can't help but love Harry


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			the sunlight is really changing all these combinations isn't it.
		
Click to expand...

It really is!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Maybe the horse didn't count the strides.  Shame on her, not giving him an abacus in his stable, and sending him out to walk the course himself.
		
Click to expand...

P*ss poor preparation there. :rolleyes3:


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

isnt he the son of the jumper Richard Meade


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



 
Wonder how a horse would count a stride, 4 feet down or the slight pause in gait?
		
Click to expand...

Send him out with a metre rule and let him work out the maths, eh!


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			can't help but love Harry 

Click to expand...

So much love for Harry


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Huntsmans is definitely jumping much better, wonder if it's the change in the shadows.


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Harry Meade about to start


----------



## teapot (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			As if you'd get to 4* and not stride out combinations 

Click to expand...

Dont think they even walk the course do they?


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			Huntsmans is definitely jumping much better, wonder if it's the change in the shadows.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I think the light has changed again.


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			So much love for Harry 

Click to expand...

wish they'd let him go earlier so we could have him commentating again too


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

teapot said:



			Dont think they even walk the course do they? 

Click to expand...

it's a long way round... just watch the course walk on the telly, innit.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Nana Dalton finishes 15th


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

hes on now -so good luck to him


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

I love a grey with a bit of Cruising in him too

fingers crossed


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			it's a long way round... just watch the course walk on the telly, innit.
		
Click to expand...

You could visit the pims and gin  tents along the way and time it that way - more interesting than minute markers


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

well sat there :O


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

WOW that was soooo lucky!


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

What a recovery!


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

WellI recovered Emily!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Clever horse! Love those types, so genuine!


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

hes doing very well so far


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

C'mon Harry! 

That was a proper eek for Emily there :eek3:


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			You could visit the pims and gin  tents along the way and time it that way - more interesting than minute markers 

Click to expand...

yeah but they aren't open until Saturday, so you'd have to hope for a late time on the day to squeeze that in during the morning. Otherwise just follow the strings (maybe that's why a couple have gone the wrong way  )


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

that was quite honest from Harry's horse


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

yes it knows its job & its paying  off


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			yeah but they aren't open until Saturday, so you'd have to hope for a late time on the day to squeeze that in during the morning. Otherwise just follow the strings (maybe that's why a couple have gone the wrong way  )
		
Click to expand...

going the wrong way because they've already been in the pims and gins tents, or because they're following the string?


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

That ground before the ditch is quite bad now.  Does seem to be affecting a few of them.


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			that was quite honest from Harry's horse 

Click to expand...

Good horse - I don't think Harry was entertaining any other possible outcome though!


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Too many eek moments in quick succession. Can we have a few nice safe rounds please?


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Good horse - I don't think Harry was entertaining any other possible outcome though!
		
Click to expand...

Nope  
Nice job through that pond .


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

harry is doing well


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			That ground before the ditch is quite bad now.  Does seem to be affecting a few of them.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, it's getting cut up in a few places. I don't think the ground has dried as much as hoped.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Lol!  Harry gave HIS horse the course plan and metre wheel.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

I agree Milliepops  great effort


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Nope  
Nice job through that pond .
		
Click to expand...

And timing looking hot too, this is exciting!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Lol!  Harry gave HIS horse the course plan and metre wheel.

Click to expand...

 

Does that mean harry spent his time in the tents?


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Go away jonelle, congrats and all that, but i want to see harry!


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

jonelle did a nice interview


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

harry is doing just fine


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



 

Does that mean harry spent his time in the tents?
		
Click to expand...

I think we'll have to wait to the end of his round before making a decision on that


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



 

Does that mean harry spent his time in the tents?
		
Click to expand...

The name's Meade, Harry Meade, and I'll have a Pimms, shaken, not stirred.  I'm just here to get blind drunk while my horse takes care of the technical course walk.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

ooh that was very well sat there too


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			The name's Meade, Harry Meade, and I'll have a Pimms, shaken, not stirred.  I'm just here to get blind drunk while my horse takes care of the technical course walk.
		
Click to expand...

*probably how it happened*


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

I fastforwarded Jonelle to catch up with real time live action   But Harry's done and it's all good


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

:O :O 

She was very lucky to not fall there!!


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

An excellent round by Harry


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

So pleased for Harry.  He looked like he really enjoyed that.


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			*probably how it happened*
		
Click to expand...

Agreed  and obviously a proven technique  

Also just laughed at someone undoing the girth while harry still on


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			So pleased for Harry.  He looked like he really enjoyed that.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah definitely, great comeback.


----------



## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

Harry's horse looked knackered! Glad they're home safe!


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Well done Harry and well sat Dani!


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Agreed 

Also just laughed at someone undoing the girth while harry still on 

Click to expand...

With friends like that, eh :eek3:


----------



## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

I love Harry Meade. It amazes me how he recovered after pretty much smashing both of his elbows in a rotational fall


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Dani and her horse looking tired now =/


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Supertrooper said:



			I love Harry Meade. It amazes me how he recovered after pretty much smashing both of his elbows in a rotational fall
		
Click to expand...

I like harry too. But more so as he&#8217;s easy on the eye


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## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			I like harry too. But more so as he&#8217;s easy on the eye 

Click to expand...

Well that too ;-)


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## Nicnac (5 May 2018)

Rope jumping


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Has he lost his curb?

Could explain the enthusiasm


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

another one jumping the ropes 

has something on Bradeley Law's tack broken? looks like there's something dangling round his nose.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Has he lost his curb?
		
Click to expand...

something's def flapping away there... long way round wiht a tack malfunction :eek3:


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			I like harry too. But more so as he&#8217;s easy on the eye 

Click to expand...

Isn't he just.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

yes please let's grab a word with Harry


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

can you 2 go and get a cold shower or something


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

A brilliant interview by harry meade


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

a very professional interview


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			yes please let's grab a word with Harry 

Click to expand...

"I thought I'd try a new bit... this bit, it was probably my fathers, or... you know, my grandfathers..."

Just what the expensive, new fangled bit companies love to hear!


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## teapot (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			"I thought I'd try a new bit... this bit, it was probably my fathers, or... you know, my grandfathers..."

Just what the expensive, new fangled bit companies love to hear!
		
Click to expand...

Probably where he got his white bib from too


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			can you 2 go and get a cold shower or something  

Click to expand...

Friend had a horse called beneath the sheets. Think the horse does a few years ago, so could be used as a name again...


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Oh no that was a horrid fall


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

oooh nasty dunk


----------



## Nicnac (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			can you 2 go and get a cold shower or something  

Click to expand...

Poor Irish rider took the cold shower for them


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Oh ****

Poor james, that was a huge fall  at least both are up


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

wish he'd let go of the reins there, that was not nice to watch


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Over pushed that.


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Nicnac said:



			Poor Irish rider took the cold shower for them
		
Click to expand...

Oh very good!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			wish he'd let go of the reins there, that was not nice to watch 

Click to expand...

I think he was trying to use reins to manoeuvre out of the way of horse, you don&#8217;t want to be underneath a panicky horse!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Oh god, Harry in the commentary box, the HHOers will be all giddy again


----------



## Nicnac (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			Oh very good!
		
Click to expand...

Haha - have you swooned now he's on the commentary?


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Harry in the commentary box ladies!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Oh god, Harry in the commentary box, the HHOers will be all giddy again  

Click to expand...

He turned his watch off at 7minutes, he must have spent longer in those tents after the 7 minute mark


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Nicnac said:



			Haha - have you swooned now he's on the commentary?
		
Click to expand...

He's very easy on the ear, as well as the eye.  I do feel a little giddy!


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## rosiesowner (5 May 2018)

Mum and I are off to the horses now, but we werent going before wed watched the Meade! Love him 
And the horse isnt too bad either


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			I think he was trying to use reins to manoeuvre out of the way of horse, you don&#8217;t want to be underneath a panicky horse!
		
Click to expand...

I thought it looked like the horse was also panicking a bit as its head was restricted.
I'm not a fan of people holding onto reins in general in falls though, I know a lot of the time it's not intentional and I have done it many times. Either way, nasty fall and either way glad they're both up and okay.


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

rosiesowner said:



			Mum and I are off to the horses now, but we weren&#8217;t going before we&#8217;d watched the Meade! Love him 
And the horse isn&#8217;t too bad either 

Click to expand...

I need to go and ride Salty but I can't go without watching Oli now Jonty and Art are out of the running. Looks like I'll be late for the barbecue this evening


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Come on Gemma!


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			I need to go and ride Salty but I can't go without watching Oli now Jonty and Art are out of the running. Looks like I'll be late for the barbecue this evening 

Click to expand...

I have two to ride yet, but I'm going nowhere


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

There are a lot less horses wearing grease this year, wonder why?


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## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

What time is Oli on?


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Supertrooper said:



			What time is Oli on?
		
Click to expand...

4:38 according to the start list


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			I thought it looked like the horse was also panicking a bit as its head was restricted.
I'm not a fan of people holding onto reins in general in falls though, I know a lot of the time it's not intentional and I have done it many times. Either way, nasty fall and either way glad they're both up and okay.
		
Click to expand...

Does anyone remember was it James Robinson who got tipped off in the lake and his horse bogged off for a swim?


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## teapot (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Does anyone remember was it James Robinson who got tipped off in the lake and his horse bogged off for a swim?
		
Click to expand...

Yup, was Commanche I think?


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## scats (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Does anyone remember was it James Robinson who got tipped off in the lake and his horse bogged off for a swim?
		
Click to expand...

I remember that haha.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

think Michael Owen has to be commended for getting round with a broken noseband too!


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Sir Mark Todd out now, just to remind us all it's a marathon, not a sprint!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Has Gemma coloured in the nasal strip or do they come in purple?


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## scats (5 May 2018)

Lucky there Toddy!


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Sir todd very lucky there!!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			Lucky there Toddy!
		
Click to expand...

That really is one of those things where the benefit of experience helps, other riders might have felt that coming and it would be inevitable. Good save


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

gemma has done very well


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Good round for gemma! One of quicker rounds too


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Strong round for Gemma. Looks like Mark Todd is going well.


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Toddy having to show off his skills today lol


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			That really is one of those things where the benefit of experience helps, other riders might have felt that coming and it would be inevitable. Good save 

Click to expand...

Yes, those lightning reactions, and his extensive experience really are invaluable


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Wow, horse was half asleep coming out of the water, I loved that! Mark was like "wakey wakey"!


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## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

Mark Todd's horses are always so smiley!


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Take off at the mound looking quite sticky now.


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## scats (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Toddy having to show off his skills today lol
		
Click to expand...

Definitely, but hes able to do it without making it look anything.


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

driving a bus round the country lanes   great stuff


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Ian start just said he was 62!!!


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			driving a bus round the country lanes   great stuff  

Click to expand...

He has a nice line in creative analogies, for sure


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			Definitely, but he&#8217;s able to do it without making it look anything.
		
Click to expand...

The benefits of being 62 lol. Strange to think that toddy was 40 when will furlong was born!!


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

I absolutely agree


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

fingers crossed Harry Dzenis has a better round than his first!


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Hold on course, not sure why =/


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## scats (5 May 2018)

Hold on course, who else was on course apart from Harry?


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Wishfilly said:



			Hold on course, not sure why =/
		
Click to expand...

Uh oh ...


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## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			Hold on course, who else was on course apart from Harry?
		
Click to expand...

Toddy was out


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			Hold on course, who else was on course apart from Harry?
		
Click to expand...

Toddy


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Toddy is being held, so who has fallen to cause a hold?

Ets. Alex bragg?


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Problem with Alexander Bragg's horse apparently?


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## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

They've just said todays been held too!



milliepops said:



			Toddy
		
Click to expand...


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Ahh  it's Alexander Bragg. Hope everything is OK.


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## scats (5 May 2018)

Hope Alex Braggs horse is ok.  

Wonder what happened?


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Mark allowed to restart. Hope Alex and horse are ok!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

That's weird, didn't they say Mark was held between 24 and 25
So Harry has overtaken?


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Caroline Powell and Harry Dzenis also will be held then I'd think, must be one of the later parts in the course the hold is at.


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Weirdly they haven&#8217;t stopped harry yet hes just jumped no. 27


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Argh need to know Mark's time!


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Oh Mark's still on course? I'm so confused!


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Weird - are we out of whack somehow?!


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Not sure what has gone on there, because Harry was allowed to finish despite holding Toddy.

bit confusing


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

Yeah they held mark at the haywain and let harry carry on past him


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

so was mark overtaken?

This is confusing!!


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## teapot (5 May 2018)

Sometimes I think they let the second rider keep going rather than hold both


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## scats (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			so was mark overtaken?

This is confusing!!
		
Click to expand...

Think so, as to not have to stop Harry aswell.


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## Ambers Echo (5 May 2018)

Another pointless gasp from Tina! Wish she'd stop it.


----------



## Haphazardhacker (5 May 2018)

Im guessing that Harry overtook as there was no point stopping him too as I guess the hold was lifted before Harry got to where Toddy was held?


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

yeah seems that way I guess it's easier to just hold one rider, if the course reopened just as harry was approaching the holding fence.


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Just to confuse us all, but hey ho.  Toddy home with 10 time pens


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Ciran glynn just gave me a heart attack


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Ciran glynn just gave me a heart attack
		
Click to expand...

I thought he had withdrawn?


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## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

is his stirrup still attached!?


----------



## Nicnac (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			I thought he had withdrawn?
		
Click to expand...

Nope - jumping around the lake without a stirrup as you do.....


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Ollie next to start. Keeping my fingers crossed!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Nicnac said:



			Nope - jumping around the lake without a stirrup as you do.....
		
Click to expand...

He&#8217;s irish. We don&#8217;t get stirrups till you&#8217;ve done at least 5 hunts


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			I thought he had withdrawn?
		
Click to expand...

his other horse was withdrawn


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Nicnac said:



			Nope - jumping around the lake without a stirrup as you do.....
		
Click to expand...

Oh totally, keeping both stirrups is for pansies!

Eeek Oli next, c'mon!


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Nicnac said:



			Nope - jumping around the lake without a stirrup as you do.....
		
Click to expand...

oh wait, my bad, he'd withdrawn his other horse! I was confused as he was showing up as 'withdrawn' on the results website


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

fingers crossed for Oli!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			fingers crossed for Oli!
		
Click to expand...

hope he had a good nap


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Come on Ollie! This is a classy horse!


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## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			hope he had a good nap 

Click to expand...

Slept like a log, woke up feeling ready to take on the world!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Did oli just get heckled?

Very nice horse!


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

got a huge stride, hasn't it.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

eeesh, no more heart in mouth moments please!


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Oli is really going for this!


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## wkiwi (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Hes irish. We dont get stirrups till youve done at least 5 hunts 

Click to expand...

LOL - do you get a saddle to go with the stirrups then or do you have to wait for longer?


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

he is! Oli's horse was quick and snappy through that water


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Wii Limbo looks very tired, bless


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

wkiwi said:



			LOL - do you get a saddle to go with the stirrups then or do you have to wait for longer?
		
Click to expand...

If you&#8217;ve a pony with really high withers you get a saddle, usually just a poly pad held on by surcingle


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

this is adrenalin fueled watching


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Horse looking tired :/


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Olis horse looking tired, wonder if he slightly over cooked him early on. Understandable though.


----------



## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

Oli has done well there


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

ooooh this will be a tense jump off!


----------



## wkiwi (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			if you&#8217;ve a pony with really high withers you get a saddle, usually just a poly pad held on by surcingle :d
		
Click to expand...

rflmao !!


----------



## scats (5 May 2018)

Well done Oli!!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

OOOhhhhhhh exciting!


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

Wow!

Love how they threw water at Oli, and left him to pick it up from the floor, while sorting the pony!


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

WOw oli!

Very well done!!


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Well done Ollie. He put his all into that and still in with a good shot!


----------



## wkiwi (5 May 2018)

scats said:



			Oli&#8217;s horse looking tired, wonder if he slightly over cooked him early on. Understandable though.
		
Click to expand...

Yes. Only one I've seen being hit that much on the way home


----------



## only_me (5 May 2018)

Oli must be knackered now!


----------



## fetlock (5 May 2018)

Not doing much for the sport, being seen to use his stick so many times, especially inbetween the second last and last fences on an obviously flagging horse.


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Oli must be knackered now!
		
Click to expand...

may need another nap.


----------



## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

Horse looked really tired on the way home!


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

I don't think he actually hit the horse every time he raised his arm, he said earlier that he waved the stick at his other horse.


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

wkiwi said:



			Yes. Only one I've seen being hit that much on the way home 

Click to expand...

Being fair, I don't think the whip was making contact every time, and he does have $350,000 on the line.


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			may need another nap.
		
Click to expand...

Him and the horse both!


----------



## MagicMelon (5 May 2018)

I thought that wasnt pleasant viewing watching Oliver just then - I dont think a horse should be smacked round  the course. He kept hitting him on the flat, it looks horrid. Even my 5yo asked me why he kept hitting him when hed done nothing wrong. IMO there ahould be a rule about hitting in between fences. If you have to do it to wake the horse up, well surely the horse simply is not fit enough.


----------



## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

horses who went towards the middle of the day seemed to be finishing best. 

last few horses have all looked tired as they're coming to the finish, I wonder if it's coincidence

Tom McEwen looks tiny on that lovely grey!


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			I don't think he actually hit the horse every time he raised his arm, he said earlier that he waved the stick at his other horse.
		
Click to expand...

He was very clearly (imo) waving it and urging the horse on, not beating it.  That's not to say I'd rather not see it, but it's also not to say that with that sort of money on the line, I wouldn't do the same.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			horses who went towards the middle of the day seemed to be finishing best. 

last few horses have all looked tired as they're coming to the finish, I wonder if it's coincidence
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. Wonder what the temperature etc is like there, as that could also be influential.


----------



## milliepops (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			He was very clearly (imo) waving it and urging the horse on, not beating it.  That's not to say I'd rather not see it, but it's also not to say that with that sort of money on the line, I wouldn't do the same.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah agreed, and I do also think that if there are genuine welfare concerns then they would be addressed officially by the stewards, which makes it a bit of a giant risk if someone WAS to really whack a horse in public.


----------



## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

Strike Smartly one to watch I think! Few years more experience and that sort of 'stored' fitness might pick him right up!


----------



## wkiwi (5 May 2018)

Wishfilly said:



			Being fair, I don't think the whip was making contact every time, and he does have $350,000 on the line.
		
Click to expand...

No, he didn't make contact every time - some of it was whip waving along side. But still didn't see any one else having to make the number of hits he did. The amount of money should not matter.


----------



## fetlock (5 May 2018)

JFTD said:



			He was very clearly (imo) waving it and urging the horse on, not beating it.  That's not to say I'd rather not see it, but it's also not to say that with that sort of money on the line, I wouldn't do the same.
		
Click to expand...

I agree he was waving it (or mostly) at the end but he did hit the horse quite a bit during that round- you could hear the smacks at times, and more so than anyone else.


----------



## JFTDWS (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Yeah agreed, and I do also think that if there are genuine welfare concerns then they would be addressed officially by the stewards, which makes it a bit of a giant risk if someone WAS to really whack a horse in public.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed - he's no fool, he's not going to put himself in a position to win, and get himself eliminated for something like that.  You're not going to get away with any infringement of the rules with the level of scrutiny at this sort of event.


----------



## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			Yeah agreed, and I do also think that if there are genuine welfare concerns then they would be addressed officially by the stewards, which makes it a bit of a giant risk if someone WAS to really whack a horse in public.
		
Click to expand...

I do agree, but I don't think they addressed the blood at Kentucky well last week (from marylin little).


----------



## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

Oli doesn't sound hugely happy with the ride tbh, listening to his interview.


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## Experienced equestri (5 May 2018)

as usual we re not at the top of the leader board after dressage & cross country. Happy to be second & 3rd etc though .Everyone has done very well given the heat so 3 cheers to everyone


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

he's not really the gushing sort though


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## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

Does anyone know what happens if Oli and Janelle both jump clear? Does it stay as it is, suggesting XC is worth more than the dressage?


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## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

Experienced equestri said:



			as usual we re not at the top of the leader board after dressage & cross country. Happy to be second & 3rd etc though .Everyone has done very well given the heat so 3 cheers to everyone
		
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There's 4 British riders in the top 10, 3 from NZ, and then one each for America, Germany and Ireland, there's a fair mix!


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## mypegasus (5 May 2018)

Would Janelle win it as being closer to the optimum cross country time?  My memory is hazy on the rules.


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## milliepops (5 May 2018)

HashRouge said:



			Does anyone know what happens if Oli and Janelle both jump clear? Does it stay as it is, suggesting XC is worth more than the dressage?
		
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yep, because she was closest to the optimum time


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## BBP (5 May 2018)

Very excited to see Jonelle in the lead, knew her from my days as a groom on the circuit in NZ, before they made the move over here. Shes a very classy rider.


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Been great chatting to everyone on here. The showjumping is going to be so tense tomorrow!


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## Northern (5 May 2018)

Live feed was super laggy, great watching tonight. Well done to all! Especially Jonelle, being a neighbour over the ditch


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## Bernster (5 May 2018)

Just back from a hot sunny and lovely day at Badders.  I&#8217;m knackered so can&#8217;t imagine how horse and riders there are doing!  Hope they all come out ok tmrw but wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if some aren&#8217;t presented as the ground will have taken it out of them.  Very tense jump off.

Gutted about Jonty and art, they did so well until that mishap, taking lines that lots of people had struggled with.

And a horrid movement involving Alexander Bragg&#8217;s 2nd ride, not sure what happened but I saw it.  Looked like it spooked at the top of the big Saville hill, but then it seemed to be due to something very badly wrong with his right fore.  Horse was taken off in an ambulance, came very quickly off course.  The organisation was impressive but it was awful to watch. Really hope it&#8217;s ok.  Anyone know?


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## Jazzmaster (5 May 2018)

Northern said:



			Live feed was super laggy, great watching tonight. Well done to all! Especially Jonelle, being a neighbour over the ditch 

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How do you watch it This evening please? I cant work out where to view it. Been at work all day and would love to watch the coverage. Its on the bbc sport app on my phone but cant get it to play and cant find it on the tv? Thank you!


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## pixie27 (5 May 2018)

Sorry if its been answered already (cant scroll through so many pages on phone on way home from badminton) but does anyone know how the French (I think) horse is who had the accident in the start box? Saw him go off in the horse ambulance but didnt get any updates  looked pretty nasty but hoping he just knocked himself!


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## Bernster (5 May 2018)

Bernster said:



			And a horrid movement involving Alexander Bragg&#8217;s 2nd ride, not sure what happened but I saw it.  Looked like it spooked at the top of the big Saville hill, but then it seemed to be due to something very badly wrong with his right fore.  Horse was taken off in an ambulance, came very quickly off course.  The organisation was impressive but it was awful to watch. Really hope it&#8217;s ok.  Anyone know?
		
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OH has just found the news report.  So, so sad, the horse did a suspensory and has been euthanised. What a horrid turn of events.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Badminton Horse Trials have just issued a statement on Redpath Ransom, Alexander Bragg's second horse.

https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/statement-regarding-horse-no-82-redpath-ransom/

thoughts are with all connections


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## Northern (5 May 2018)

Jazzmaster said:



			How do you watch it This evening please? I cant work out where to view it. Been at work all day and would love to watch the coverage. Its on the bbc sport app on my phone but cant get it to play and cant find it on the tv? Thank you!
		
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I'm in Australia, and had to subscribe to Horse and Country TV to watch it live. I believe there is a live stream on the Badminton website, depends where you are. Australia was blocked from it


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## Steerpike (5 May 2018)

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm not that impressed with Oliver Townsends rides


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## wkiwi (5 May 2018)

Don't know about the French horse, but Badminton has made a statement about Alexander Bragg's horse. Sadly put down after irreparable damage to suspensory ligament


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

wkiwi said:



			Don't know about the French horse, but Badminton has made a statement about Alexander Bragg's horse. Sadly put down after irreparable damage to suspensory ligament 

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On twitter I've seen someone say that it was Denis Mesples and Oregon de la Vigne who had an accident at the start box - not heard much else and not sure what happened, so hope both are okay. May also explain why they didn't start and were a late withdrawal. Hoping no news is good news.


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## Kadastorm (5 May 2018)

Haven&#8217;t heard about a possible fatality but just seen that Oliver Townend has been given a warning over misuse of the whip on both his horses and they will be checked thoroughly at tomorrow&#8217;s inspection.


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## fetlock (5 May 2018)

Good.

"The Ground Jury interviewed Oliver Townend (GBR) regarding his riding of his horses Cooley SRS and Ballaghmore Class at Badminton 5th May 2018.

They gave him an official warning regarding his over-use of the whip on both horses and told him that the horses would be checked very carefully on Sunday morning for the horse inspection for their fitness to compete in the jumping phase."

https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/category/latest-news/


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

Oli T now also been issued with a warning
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/badminton-ground-jury-statement-regarding-oliver-townend/

I actually didn't think his first ride was too bad, the horse did finish tired but quite a few who went early did. Second ride wasn't anywhere near as nice, and horse was very clearly tired. 

Like I've said earlier though, it'd be interesting to know if the conditions of the day contributed to how tired out some of the horses finished too. Think it was telling no one finished inside the time, and Jonelle was the only one who really came close.


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## Supertrooper (5 May 2018)

Gosh!!! I&#8217;ve never seen a statement put out like that about a rider before


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## hattie2525 (5 May 2018)

Sorry if this has already been asked but is there any way to watch the full cross country coverage  on catch up? Usually we watch them Saturday evening on but it's not up yet, anyone know if/ when it will be uploaded? I went out today 100% confident I could watch it tonight and I'm a but gutted now &#55357;&#56862;


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## tiggs (5 May 2018)

It's on iplayer now


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## be positive (5 May 2018)

Supertrooper said:



			Gosh!!! I&#8217;ve never seen a statement put out like that about a rider before
		
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That is a very clear warning, personally I thought Oli looked as tired as his horses, if not more so, and the only way he could "help" them was to wave his whip which made poor viewing and not what is expected from the number 1 rider, it may be he is unwell but none of the other pros finished looking as knackered as him, even those that had two rides, Tom McEwan jogged behind his horse after dismounting.


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## MagicMelon (5 May 2018)

Kadastorm said:



			Havent heard about a possible fatality but just seen that Oliver Townend has been given a warning over misuse of the whip on both his horses and they will be checked thoroughly at tomorrows inspection.
		
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How absolutely awful if there's been a fatality, so so sad. 

With regard to Oliver Townend, oh great he got a warning - thats ridiculous, too little too late!  Shouldn't he at the very very least get penalties added so he'll at least think again should he ever consider riding in such a manner again?  Ive never been fond of him, he always seems to be particularily tough on his horses. If he had to hit his horses on the flat between fences then IMO they were clearly not fit enough and should have been pulled up. He doesn't deserve to win tomorrow!


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## hattie2525 (5 May 2018)

All I can find is Sundays highlights ready to record on my Sky Bbc iplayer and my iplayer iPad app. How annoying!


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

be positive said:



			That is a very clear warning, personally I thought Oli looked as tired as his horses, if not more so, and the only way he could "help" them was to wave his whip which made poor viewing and not what is expected from the number 1 rider, it may be he is unwell but none of the other pros finished looking as knackered as him, even those that had two rides, Tom McEwan jogged behind his horse after dismounting.
		
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Ben Hodbday was wrecked when he finished, think commentators even said he had to get medical attention as a result. Lissa Green also looked very tired after finishing too.

I'm rewatching right now, I'm in Ireland so don't get iplayer but have found I can rewind the live player and get most of it.


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## tiggs (5 May 2018)

hattie2525 said:



			All I can find is Sundays highlights ready to record on my Sky Bbc iplayer and my iplayer iPad app. How annoying!
		
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On my laptop if you go to iplayer, categories and then sport it is there also on bbc sport website


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## TelH (5 May 2018)

hattie2525 said:



			All I can find is Sundays highlights ready to record on my Sky Bbc iplayer and my iplayer iPad app. How annoying!
		
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/equestrian/43848447

Cross country is here on catch up.


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## only_me (5 May 2018)

Didn&#8217;t know that about Ben, but he was absolutely knackered and I&#8217;m not surprised. Hope he&#8217;s ok now!


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## Crazy_cat_lady (5 May 2018)

Not got to Ollie' s 2nd ride yet but was surprised How much he used the whip, could sort of see how once on the approach to a complex fence was sort of saying get focussed but think he used it about 3 times on the approach to the pond, oh who is non horsey kept commenting on how he "keeps hitting it" didn't Ollie say in the interview the horse is lazy? However if he did it with both?

Didn't notice any of the other riders resorting to the whip so much. I'm not anti whip but am pleased he has had a warning. Mulry with Ben for example didn't really look like he was travelling but didn't see him using the whip much or when Ben was really tired.

Re the warning it's a bit like the whip debate in racing if they use the whip more than the noted amount but win a main group 1 is the few day ban worth "breaking the rules"

Think he will win the grand slam but I've never particularly warmed to him.

Do like Lissa Green follow her on fb she seems to really love her horses and her events so glad she did well. Lissa's horse looked quite strong so may explain why she was so tired.

Would love Micheal and Sam to win but don't see all 3 above him having poles.


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## Kadastorm (5 May 2018)

Just seen the news about Alexander Bragg&#8217;s horse and it&#8217;s such a shame. I lost my pony due to injury to his suspensory ligament. 
As for Oli - I don&#8217;t know what to think, his horse was tired but from what I saw he was waving the whip rather than using it. I&#8217;m rewatching so I may change my mind. 

Just going to mention Tom Jackson too - his father was my farrier so I am a little bias but still, he is a wonderful rider and his horse is awesome. From pony club to badminton - what dreams are made of!


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## be positive (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			Ben Hodbday was wrecked when he finished, think commentators even said he had to get medical attention as a result. Lissa Green also looked very tired after finishing too.

I'm rewatching right now, I'm in Ireland so don't get iplayer but have found I can rewind the live player and get most of it.
		
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They are both pros but not competing at this level on several horses so getting fit enough will be more difficult however hard they try it is not easy to replicate a 4* xc in training.
Ben Hobday may also have some health issues since his recovery from cancer, which may be why he was out of breath and needed precautionary medical attention.


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## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

I think Oli was waving his whip a lot, but he was also using it quite a lot at times too. It was the most noticeable of any of the riders from what I could see and is such a shame as it takes the shine off his fabulous dressage yesterday. I wonder if he would have ridden in the same way had he not got the grand slam in his sights? Not saying that's an excuse, but I wonder if it influenced him. Either way, it doesn't look good, particularly to non-horsey viewers.


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## Honey08 (5 May 2018)

We were there today and saw Oli at one of the last fences of the course and I can't say the horse looked remotely tired four fences from home.  I was surprised to read all the furore about him.  I looked polished and together when he passed me.  It was a very hot day though- a lot of horses struggled.  Mr Potts made me cringe, I'm glad she retired.  I guess in Oli's case, if the horse was a bit tired but not dangerously so, then it kind of is the riders job to push a bit.  I will be interested to see the rc footage.

It was a day to be on a tb!


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## Wishfilly (5 May 2018)

Really sad to hear about Alexander Bragg's horse. 

I do wonder if maybe the time was a bit too tight. Normally, you would expect to have some riders finishing inside the time, but no-one managed it. In the past, I have seen optimum times changed after the first 10 or so riders have gone, if the time seems a bit too tight. With this, combined with the rule change, I wonder if some riders were pushing their horses a bit too hard at the start, and thus finishing very tired. 

I agree that many riders also looked very tired at the finish.

I do agree that the ground was obviously softer than it looked, and temperature was probably a factor for some riders and horses- but it's far from the worst conditions that Badminton has run in. I wonder if the weather earlier in the year has affected rider's abilities to get horses competition fit?

WRT to Ollie- I still think that on his second ride he was waving the whip more than making contact (although I agree it doesn't look great). On his first ride he did use the whip quite a bit between fences, but IMO, so did a lot of other riders. There are FEI rules on use of the whip, and I don't believe Ollie broke any of them. Perhaps the rules should be stricter? I wouldn't be against a rule change limiting riders to, say, seven uses of the whip over the last five obstacles or something.

Rules here for anyone interested. https://inside.fei.org/sites/defaul...ules December 2017 - changes integrated_0.pdf ctrl+f and type in whip should bring you to the relevant section.

There were some great rounds today and it was great to see many of the first timers and young riders completing!


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## TheMule (5 May 2018)

Oli T really stood out for his persistent driving and pushing of tired horses. It's not acceptable. I have no problem with using the stick as a sharpener but he was using the stick after the horse had made good jumping efforts


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## Honey08 (5 May 2018)

I've just read he's had an official warning for over use of the whip on both horses.


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## Tiddlypom (5 May 2018)

Statement on the news section of the BHT website. 

'The Ground Jury interviewed Oliver Townend (GBR) regarding his riding of his horses Cooley SRS and Ballaghmore Class at Badminton 5th May 2018.

They gave him an official warning regarding his over-use of the whip on both horses and told him that the horses would be checked very carefully on Sunday morning for the horse inspection for their fitness to compete in the jumping phase.'

Quite right too.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

be positive said:



			They are both pros but not competing at this level on several horses so getting fit enough will be more difficult however hard they try it is not easy to replicate a 4* xc in training.
Ben Hobday may also have some health issues since his recovery from cancer, which may be why he was out of breath and needed precautionary medical attention.
		
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We also don't know if any riders have any conditions like asthma etc, and without a doubt the heat also affects the riders - especially those who aren't used to it!

I do think Harry Meade had the right idea, riding round in a short sleeve shirt lol


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## fetlock (5 May 2018)

Watching Townsend's second round again on iplayer -

5:27  he sets off. Horse gets a slap.
5:32 takes off a bit close, lands well, he hits the horse fives times behind the saddle after landing
5:34  one slap (no issue with this one)
5:35:50 horse gets hit five times on the neck after landing
5:36  after landing the horse gets two (strong) hits on his backside
5:38  after landing, the horse is hit five times on his neck
5:38:29 horse hit hard twice on approach (if it wasnt for the rest this one could perhaps be overlooked)

Then we get to the last two fences. It's hard to tell but between the penultimate and last fence I think it was fanning the whip only, or mostly (saw one definite hit)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p065zgf4/badminton-horse-trials-2018-cross-country-live


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## fetlock (5 May 2018)

Wishfilly said:



			Really sad to hear about Alexander Bragg's horse. 

I do wonder if maybe the time was a bit too tight. Normally, you would expect to have some riders finishing inside the time, but no-one managed it. In the past, I have seen optimum times changed after the first 10 or so riders have gone, if the time seems a bit too tight. With this, combined with the rule change, I wonder if some riders were pushing their horses a bit too hard at the start, and thus finishing very tired. 

I agree that many riders also looked very tired at the finish.

I do agree that the ground was obviously softer than it looked, and temperature was probably a factor for some riders and horses- but it's far from the worst conditions that Badminton has run in. I wonder if the weather earlier in the year has affected rider's abilities to get horses competition fit?

WRT to Ollie- I still think that on his second ride he was waving the whip more than making contact (although I agree it doesn't look great). On his first ride he did use the whip quite a bit between fences, but IMO, so did a lot of other riders. There are FEI rules on use of the whip, and I don't believe Ollie broke any of them. Perhaps the rules should be stricter? I wouldn't be against a rule change limiting riders to, say, seven uses of the whip over the last five obstacles or something.

Rules here for anyone interested. https://inside.fei.org/sites/defaul...ules December 2017 - changes integrated_0.pdf ctrl+f and type in whip should bring you to the relevant section.

There were some great rounds today and it was great to see many of the first timers and young riders completing!
		
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526.3 use of the whip  (page 46) 
f) The whip is not to be used more than three times for any one incident.

He broke that rule at least three times.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (5 May 2018)

The hiding OT gave his first ride after they had cleanly jumped the vicarage vee was appalling, go and re watch it if in any doubt. Caught clearly on tv, landed and did about 6 strides and he gave it at least 4 ruddy hard stripes on the off side.
I never usually comment but this was bang out of order imho.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (5 May 2018)

fetlock said:



			Watching Townsend's second round again on iplayer -

5:27  he sets off. Horse gets a slap.
5:32 takes off a bit close, lands well, he hits the horse fives times behind the saddle after landing
5:34  one slap (no issue with this one)
5:35:50 horse gets hit five times on the neck after landing
5:36  after landing the horse gets two (strong) hits on his backside
5:38  after landing, the horse is hit five times on his neck
5:38:29 horse hit hard twice on approach (if it wasnt for the rest this one could perhaps be overlooked)

Then we get to the last two fences. It's hard to tell but between the penultimate and last fence I think it was fanning the whip only, or mostly (saw one definite hit)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p065zgf4/badminton-horse-trials-2018-cross-country-live

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5 times in 1 go?! Surely that's too much? Watching on catch up now so will be intrigued to see if it was needed etc but even then surely 5 isn't necessary. Sad he could win the grand slam despite this, also he's been warned for excessive whip use but he did it on both horses shouldn't he have a warning for each? When Pippa was riding for the grand slam she didn't seem to have that attitude. Obviously I'm not anywhere near that level so maybe he had a different feel but seems excessive


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## scats (5 May 2018)

fetlock said:



			Watching Townsend's second round again on iplayer -

5:27  he sets off. Horse gets a slap.
5:32 takes off a bit close, lands well, he hits the horse fives times behind the saddle after landing
5:34  one slap (no issue with this one)
5:35:50 horse gets hit five times on the neck after landing
5:36  after landing the horse gets two (strong) hits on his backside
5:38  after landing, the horse is hit five times on his neck
5:38:29 horse hit hard twice on approach (if it wasnt for the rest this one could perhaps be overlooked)

Then we get to the last two fences. It's hard to tell but between the penultimate and last fence I think it was fanning the whip only, or mostly (saw one definite hit)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p065zgf4/badminton-horse-trials-2018-cross-country-live

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And thats only the fences they showed on the bbc...

I remember seeing him hit the second ride a few times near the end, when the horse was obviously flagging, and felt it unfair.  I did feel he tackled the first part of the course rather aggressively and as a result wore the horse out.

I didnt really clock how much he used the whip, but I was on my iPad at the time so was looking away a lot.


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## be positive (5 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			We also don't know if any riders have any conditions like asthma etc, and without a doubt the heat also affects the riders - especially those who aren't used to it!

I do think Harry Meade had the right idea, riding round in a short sleeve shirt lol
		
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The point is that OT was not riding his horses sympathetically, as recognised by the ground jury, other riders were not given warnings, whether any of them suffer from ill health or not is irrelevant most did not look anywhere near as tired as Oli at the end and as the no1 rider he must be seen to abide by the rules and be an ambassador for the sport, he failed on both counts today.


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## CoachinaCar (5 May 2018)

Ollie Townsend spoilt Badminton for me, it was not good viewing. If he wins tomorrow it will be a sad day for Eventing. He should have been eliminated.


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## fetlock (5 May 2018)

Crazy_cat_lady said:



			5 times in 1 go?! Surely that's too much? Watching on catch up now so will be intrigued to see if it was needed etc but even then surely 5 isn't necessary. Sad he could win the grand slam despite this, also he's been warned for excessive whip use but he did it on both horses shouldn't he have a warning for each? When Pippa was riding for the grand slam she didn't seem to have that attitude. Obviously I'm not anywhere near that level so maybe he had a different feel but seems excessive
		
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I missed his first round, and the second one was uncomfortable enough to watch so will skip going back to watch the first.
I agree with coachinacar - he should be eliminated. And yes, scats- what was he doing at the fences we didn't see.
I hope he doesn't win. What an advert for the sport.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

be positive said:



			The point is that OT was not riding his horses sympathetically, as recognised by the ground jury, other riders were not given warnings, whether any of them suffer from ill health or not is irrelevant most did not look anywhere near as tired as Oli at the end and as the no1 rider he must be seen to abide by the rules and be an ambassador for the sport, he failed on both counts today.
		
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I must have misread your original post then. A lot of riders finished tired, and we didn't see all of them finish and how they finished. A lot of horses also finished tired, and interestingly those who seemed to go early and those who seemed to go later on seemed to have horses coming in the most tired - hard to say if this is coincidence or not. 

I didn't like Oli's second round, but didn't think his first was that bad. Yes, his first horse was tired, but I thought he rode his first much better than his second. His second round looked like a tired horse and tired rider struggling to get round especially towards the end. He didn't ride like the world No. 1, and it'll be interesting to see what the horse inspection tomorrow brings up.


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## TheMule (5 May 2018)

Surely this is what the 25 penalty 'Abuse of horse' rule is for?He quite clearly contravenes the FEI rules so they should use the penalty system


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## AdorableAlice (5 May 2018)

There was a male rider who dropped his whip half way round.  Nursed a tired horse home hands and heels.  The horse kept going at a pace he could manage.

Mr Townend is a driven highly competitive man who has gained everything through dedication and hard work.  Horses are merely a tool of his trade and with a huge sum of money up for grabs if he can win the Rolex title with a win at Badminton there was never any doubt he would thrash those horses round.  He was sheepish when interviewed by Clare Balding and claimed the grey was nappy and difficult thereby using precious energy before he ran and therefore got tired too quickly.

He certainly has not done the sport any favours today.  No one, horsey or not want to see brave honest horses being thrashed.  One wonders how he treats the horses at home especially a non compliant one.


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## cundlegreen (5 May 2018)

AdorableAlice said:



			There was a male rider who dropped his whip half way round.  Nursed a tired horse home hands and heels.  The horse kept going at a pace he could manage.

Mr Townend is a driven highly competitive man who has gained everything through dedication and hard work.  Horses are merely a tool of his trade and with a huge sum of money up for grabs if he can win the Rolex title with a win at Badminton there was never any doubt he would thrash those horses round.  He was sheepish when interviewed by Clare Balding and claimed the grey was nappy and difficult thereby using precious energy before he ran and therefore got tired too quickly.

He certainly has not done the sport any favours today.  No one, horsey or not want to see brave honest horses being thrashed.  One wonders how he treats the horses at home especially a non compliant one.
		
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I'm afraid I'm with you on this one. I've never been a fan, and he seems to go through high class horses at quite a rate. The inspiration today was Mark Todd, who at the grand old age of 62, rode like a man half his age, and showed how to ride a horse into a tricky fence and make it look easy. Both his horses lasted home well and he wasn't hard on them. I do think some of the men (trying not to be sexist!) looked knackered towards the end of the course. There was a lot of flopping and flapping going on!


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## OrangeAndLemon (5 May 2018)

Is there any news on what happened to Denis Mesples and his horse Oregon de la Vigne. I know they had an accident in the start box which required a horse ambulance. After the sad news about Redpath Ransom, hoping for some better news.

As for the OT issue; I don't know what is right. I saw him smack both rides a number of times but not in a harsh way IMHO. The horses were tiring on the ground and I'd hate to see a tired horse take a lazy jump over a badminton fence and end up injured. Both horses will be fully inspected before they are allowed to take the trot up. 

I never feel the need to watch his rounds hidden behind a cushion in fear of the horses safety. Other posters have mentioned Louise Harwood's riding style and I find her style terrifying and I endlessly worry for the safety of her and her horse at every fence. If I owned a horse capable of this, would I send it to Louise or Oli? TBH neither and I've long admired Oli's commitment to the sport,  honesty and work ethic.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

cundlegreen said:



			I'm afraid I'm with you on this one. I've never been a fan, and he seems to go through high class horses at quite a rate. The inspiration today was Mark Todd, who at the grand old age of 62, rode like a man half his age, and showed how to ride a horse into a tricky fence and make it look easy. Both his horses lasted home well and he wasn't hard on them. I do think some of the men (trying not to be sexist!) looked knackered towards the end of the course. There was a lot of flopping and flapping going on!
		
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I thought Will Furlong rode very well too, very impressive as he's only 22 and it was his first time round Badminton, and I believe his first 4*

also sad to hear that Mr Mulry will be retiring after Badminton, there's a wonderful photo of him flying the 3rd fence and they really were a favourite pairing


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## Elf On A Shelf (5 May 2018)

I don't follow much eventing, it's not my cup of tea but I have been reading this thread to give myself a bit more of an idea seeing as everyone is so psyched about it.

What I have learnt - you can use whatever vile contraptions on your horse you deem fit.
 Riders can batter their horses with whips and get a slap on the wrist (racing jockeys have huge whip restrictions that are always up for debate!) 
People can turn against their favourite riders within seconds.

A suspensory Injury deems putting to sleep. I'd be interested to know why. Bones, a completely broken down tendon or two but not a suspensory in racing.


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

OrangeAndLemon said:



			Is there any news on what happened to Denis Mesples and his horse Oregon de la Vigne. I know they had an accident in the start box which required a horse ambulance. After the sad news about Redpath Ransom, hoping for some better news.
		
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have been checking twitter, but sadly haven't seen anything or much mention of them. I really am hoping no news is good news.


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## OrangeAndLemon (5 May 2018)

cundlegreen said:



			I'm afraid I'm with you on this one. I've never been a fan, and he seems to go through high class horses at quite a rate.!
		
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That's like saying Katie Jerram gets through a lot of top class horses. :-D

He took on any and all rides he could get when starting out. It didn't matter how dangerous and unrideable they were. In recent years he has had rides recommended for him by Andrew Nicholson etc and has started to get better quality horses. He continued to keep a large yard but in the last year or so, made a conscious effort to slim down from the 40+ horses to a more focused string of the best talent. Moving on the previous rides wasn't difficult because he spent time getting to know them and making them successful.


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## TheMule (5 May 2018)

EKW said:



			A suspensory Injury deems putting to sleep. I'd be interested to know why. Bones, a completely broken down tendon or two but not a suspensory in racing.
		
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That's a bit low seeing as you have absolutely no knowledge of the actual circumstances and the extent of the injury. There are several reasons why a suspensory injury may be deemed untreatable and you have passed a hugely unfair judgement on the rider and horse's owners.
The rider, owners and whole team are beyond distraught right now (yes, I do know that for sure) There was nothing that could be done for the horse.


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## lannerch (5 May 2018)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			The hiding OT gave his first ride after they had cleanly jumped the vicarage vee was appalling, go and re watch it if in any doubt. Caught clearly on tv, landed and did about 6 strides and he gave it at least 4 ruddy hard stripes on the off side.
I never usually comment but this was bang out of order imho.
		
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Just rewatched and have to disagree he does hit it but 3 times , not 4 or 5 being mentioned. He also waves the whip like jockeys in the last straight it only looks like waves, agreed I only see the fences the bbc showed and I  have only rewatched Cooley so he may be worse on his second ride and hence the warning.
I have seen mark Todd ok a lot of years ago who I agree is a legend sharpen a tired horse with his stick, it was required and as always he rode well, and it did the job enabling him to complete safely .


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## wkiwi (5 May 2018)

TheMule said:



			Surely this is what the 25 penalty 'Abuse of horse' rule is for?He quite clearly contravenes the FEI rules so they should use the penalty system
		
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I think the 25 penalties is one of the options for dangerous riding rather than abuse of horse. 
Abuse of horse lists the options as warning, yellow card, elimination, fine, or disqualification. 

Interesting that many fans think he wasn't abusive even though the stewards obviously thought so. They probably also have access to more video and different views as well as the eye witness accounts of officials on the course.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (5 May 2018)

Hmmm interestingly I thought OT was worse with the whip with the first horse


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## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

He's withdrawn Ballaghmor Class (the second horse).


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## sasquatch (5 May 2018)

in an unrelated question, does anyone know why Denis Mesples and Oregon de la Vigne don't appear to have a dressage score?

Is this just a mistake, because they were able to proceed to xc before they had their accident at the start box. on the xc results, they're also listed without a dressage score. also, you can read the scores on the dressage tests too if you click on the percentage.

https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/dressage-results-2018/


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## lannerch (5 May 2018)

OrangeAndLemon said:



			That's like saying Katie Jerram gets through a lot of top class horses. :-D

He took on any and all rides he could get when starting out. It didn't matter how dangerous and unrideable they were. In recent years he has had rides recommended for him by Andrew Nicholson etc and has started to get better quality horses. He continued to keep a large yard but in the last year or so, made a conscious effort to slim down from the 40+ horses to a more focused string of the best talent. Moving on the previous rides wasn't difficult because he spent time getting to know them and making them successful.
		
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Agree totally and both his rides today he has produced from 4yo, so they are where they are today due to him bringing them on ,  So it cant all be bad. 
No one can get the consistent results oli gets running a horse on fear .


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## Crazy_cat_lady (5 May 2018)

DiNozzo said:



			He's withdrawn Ballaghmor Class (the second horse).
		
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Where does it say that?


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## HashRouge (5 May 2018)

DiNozzo said:



			He's withdrawn Ballaghmor Class (the second horse).
		
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How do you know that?


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## DiNozzo (5 May 2018)

HashRouge said:



			How do you know that?
		
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I saw it on a running order/results page... and checked to make sure I'd read it right! But I now can't find it, so I may have been mistaken.


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## Mule (6 May 2018)

EKW said:



			I don't follow much eventing, it's not my cup of tea but I have been reading this thread to give myself a bit more of an idea seeing as everyone is so psyched about it.

What I have learnt - you can use whatever vile contraptions on your horse you deem fit.
 Riders can batter their horses with whips and get a slap on the wrist (racing jockeys have huge whip restrictions that are always up for debate!) 
People can turn against their favourite riders within seconds.

A suspensory Injury deems putting to sleep. I'd be interested to know why. Bones, a completely broken down tendon or two but not a suspensory in racing.
		
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I event but I have become increasingly uncomfortable watching 4 * competitions. I didn't watch Badminton this year. I do think too much is asked of the horse. 

I've never watched racing because I don't like watching horses being whipped. (I'm not in the UK and not all countries have stringent rules on whip use) 

I hate seeing the horses fall and have to be put down. This is the case in both racing and eventing. I can't get my head around the idea that we should accept equine deaths as part of horse sport. At least with racing the public has forced change for the better. 

Eventing isn't watched by the general public so it isn't subject to the same scrutiny. I think it would be better for the horses if it were. 

I understand when ones livelihood depends on the sport one would feel differently. However perhaps outsiders who aren't invested in the sport are better judges of what is and isn't acceptable.


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## milliepops (6 May 2018)

TheMule said:



			That's a bit low seeing as you have absolutely no knowledge of the actual circumstances and the extent of the injury. There are several reasons why a suspensory injury may be deemed untreatable and you have passed a hugely unfair judgement on the rider and horse's owners.
The rider, owners and whole team are beyond distraught right now (yes, I do know that for sure) There was nothing that could be done for the horse.
		
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The statement on badminton website states it was "irreparable " so must have been fairly catastrophic. What a horrible day for their team.


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## Bob notacob (6 May 2018)

My thoughts are with the team.Unless you have experienced the trauma of going home with an empty horsebox ,you know nothing. so keep your mouths firmly shut.


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## Sandstone1 (6 May 2018)

Has Oliver Townend been given a warning for excessive use of the whip?


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## wkiwi (6 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			Has Oliver Townend been given a warning for excessive use of the whip?
		
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Yes, on both horses.


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## Northern Hare (6 May 2018)

Ref Denis Mesples, there's the following update at the end of the H&H article, so fingers crossed all's well with him this morning:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/badminton-cross-country-results-2018-652015

"French rider Denis Mesples&#8217; horse, Oregon De La Vigne, reared and fell over at the start &#8212; he was taken away in a horse ambulance and is back in the stables under observation."

Looking at previous photos of Oregon De La Vigne, I think it was the same horse who was rearing at the First Horse Inspection.

Also, so sorry to read about Alexander Bragg losing his lovely horse, it must be awful for the whole team, so my thoughts are with them all.


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## HashRouge (6 May 2018)

mule said:



			I event but I have become increasingly uncomfortable watching 4 * competitions. I didn't watch Badminton this year. I do think too much is asked of the horse.
		
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I do understand your concerns. I love eventing, and most of yesterday's riders did a brilliant job. The only ones who really stood out were Oli Townend and Louise Harwood, though obviously for different reasons. Very disappointed in Oli as I thought he had changed and come a long way as a rider. 
However, with regards to your point, I do think the time was far too tight. What is the point of having a time that no-one can actually achieve? Surely that encourages riders to ask more from their horses than they normally would?


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## Sandstone1 (6 May 2018)

wkiwi said:



			Yes, on both horses.
		
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Good, although think he should be disqualified.


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## sasquatch (6 May 2018)

Northern Hare said:



			Ref Denis Mesples, there's the following update at the end of the H&H article, so fingers crossed all's well with him this morning:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/badminton-cross-country-results-2018-652015

"French rider Denis Mesples&#8217; horse, Oregon De La Vigne, reared and fell over at the start &#8212; he was taken away in a horse ambulance and is back in the stables under observation."

Looking at previous photos of Oregon De La Vigne, I think it was the same horse who was rearing at the First Horse Inspection.
		
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I wondered if something like that had happened, I think the same horse also reared during dressage. Hope both are okay.

Now time for the trot up to be starting soon!


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## Seville (6 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			Good, although think he should be disqualified.
		
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Absolutely 100% agree with you


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## Mule (6 May 2018)

HashRouge said:



			I do understand your concerns. I love eventing, and most of yesterday's riders did a brilliant job. The only ones who really stood out were Oli Townend and Louise Harwood, though obviously for different reasons. Very disappointed in Oli as I thought he had changed and come a long way as a rider. 
However, with regards to your point, I do think the time was far too tight. What is the point of having a time that no-one can actually achieve? Surely that encourages riders to ask more from their horses than they normally would?
		
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I agree, having a time so tight that nobody can make it doesn't help matters. As you said most riders are fair to their horses. It tends to be the actions of a few that are off-putting.


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## Bernster (6 May 2018)

Bob notacob said:



			My thoughts are with the team.Unless you have experienced the trauma of going home with an empty horsebox ,you know nothing. so keep your mouths firmly shut.
		
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This is what I was thinking yesterday. Cant imagine the loss and after arriving with all that excitement, to go home with no horse. Awful.


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## sasquatch (6 May 2018)

One of Oliver's horses, SRS Cooley, and AN's Nereo have been held so far.


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## lannerch (6 May 2018)

DiNozzo said:



			He's withdrawn Ballaghmor Class (the second horse).
		
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Nope hes just been presented and passed trot up interestingly Cooley held although totally sound, Nereo also held and looked lame .&#128543;


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## sasquatch (6 May 2018)

lol Sam looks to be a bit full of himself today


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## sasquatch (6 May 2018)

Cooley SRS accepted, Nereo has either been spun or withdrawn


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## Fragglerock (6 May 2018)

Does anyone know who the commentators are for the trot up?


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## lannerch (6 May 2018)

Fragglerock said:



			Does anyone know who the commentators are for the trot up?
		
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Sounds like Matt Ryan to me but may be wrong


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## only_me (6 May 2018)

AN said yesterday after finishing xc that Nero had lost one of his front shoes, so probably a bit sore this morning from that. He&#8217;s normally a very sound horse so I expect it was the shoe To blame this year!


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## Fragglerock (6 May 2018)

lannerch said:



			Sounds like Matt Ryan to me but may be wrong
		
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I thought one of them probably was as I did hear one called Matt, not sure who the other is.  My husband said it sounds like they just pulled two random people off the street.


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## sasquatch (6 May 2018)

only_me said:



			AN said yesterday after finishing xc that Nero had lost one of his front shoes, so probably a bit sore this morning from that. He&#8217;s normally a very sound horse so I expect it was the shoe To blame this year!
		
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it's a shame, would have loved to have seen them jump.

Will Furlong presenting now, not sure on the shoes.


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## sasquatch (6 May 2018)

Fragglerock said:



			I thought one of them probably was as I did hear one called Matt, not sure who the other is.  My husband said it sounds like they just pulled two random people off the street.
		
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Rupert someone and Matt Ryan, they just announced it.

Paul Tapner still in his red lol


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## lannerch (6 May 2018)

Looks like all but Nereo passed, what a shame for Andrew and will this be the last time we see Nereo at badminton.
My fingers are totally crossed for poor Alex Bragg and team Bragg, all lovely people , lets hope he has a clear with Zagreb. &#127808;


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## eahotson (6 May 2018)

Tiddlypom said:



			Statement on the news section of the BHT website. 

'The Ground Jury interviewed Oliver Townend (GBR) regarding his riding of his horses Cooley SRS and Ballaghmore Class at Badminton 5th May 2018.

They gave him an official warning regarding his over-use of the whip on both horses and told him that the horses would be checked very carefully on Sunday morning for the horse inspection for their fitness to compete in the jumping phase.'

Quite right too.
		
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Good.


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## sasquatch (6 May 2018)

Jumping start list is now posted.

theres 1 fence between the top 4, and 2 fences between top 9 (I think!)

https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/jumping-start-list-2018/


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## Supertrooper (6 May 2018)

Just watching trot up

They certainly looked at Oli&#8217;s horses in great detail


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## Sandstone1 (6 May 2018)

Just watched the re run on bbc.  He hit the second horse at least nine times.   That was full on hits.  He should be eliminated.  No excuse.


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## Chianti (6 May 2018)

Just watched it and heard Ian Stark say there aren't really any rules to deal with the situation! I've never really liked Townsend and hope he doesn't win. If he's doing that in a competition what does he do at home?


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## cavalo branco (6 May 2018)

Disgraceful!! There may not be rules in place but Townsend has shown himself to be a bully, I'd never be one of his owners.


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## Sandstone1 (6 May 2018)

winning is clearly more important than his horses well being.


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## AdorableAlice (6 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			winning is clearly more important than his horses well being.
		
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The amount of money he had/has a chance of winning - Rolex plus Badminton purse is a life changing amount.  The horses are a tool of his trade.  The mistakes lie with there being no proportionate punishment for the ragging he gave his horses in his efforts to win the money.

His second horse is running, not withdrawn according the commentary so he may well win the life changing amount of money yet.


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## fetlock (6 May 2018)

So glad the arrogant thug didn't win.


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## Sandstone1 (6 May 2018)

fetlock said:



			So glad the arrogant thug didn't win.
		
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So glad its not just me.


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## AdorableAlice (6 May 2018)

fetlock said:



			So glad the arrogant thug didn't win.
		
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And me, what he said to Clare Balding just about summed him up.  A touch of humility would have done him a lot more favours.


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## Amymay (6 May 2018)

AdorableAlice said:



			And me, what he said to Clare Balding just about summed him up.  A touch of humility would have done him a lot more favours.
		
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It was quite unbelievable!


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## Honey08 (6 May 2018)

Yes I thought his interview made him look worse.  If he'd have said that the horse hadn't felt tired to him or that he got a bit carried away I'd have thought more of him, but the "sometimes I win pretty, sometimes I win ugly" and the blaming the horse for napping just made it worse for me. He sure did ride ugly.  It was all about the money and not a stuff for these two lovely but inexperienced horses that were actually trying very hard for him.  If they were my horses I'd be finding another rider.

Very disappointing.  I thought he'd grown out of that.


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## fetlock (6 May 2018)

He's issued a statement (not on his website or his Twitter account, or yet) 

No, Oliver- it didn't just look bad, it WAS bad. 
A rubbish statement, though I'm not sure what he could have said to make things better, even without that appalling interview with Claire Balding, where he made Harvey Smith look like the Vicar of Dibley in comparison. 

"He also issued a statement on Sunday night, apologising &#8220;wholeheartedly if it looked bad&#8221;. &#8220;They are both young [horses] and inexperienced at this level,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I did have to work hard to keep their concentration and get them home in one piece as they tired in the heavy going. I hope that the way they both showjumped today demonstrates how fit, well and happy they are.&#8221; "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/equestr...ns-badminton-amid-furore-oliver-townends-use/


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## AdorableAlice (6 May 2018)

A little late for a statement, the damage is done, there is a facebook chat going at the minute on a National Hunt group page condemning him.  Giving any horse a hard time in public is never a good idea and it is ludicrous the governing body has nothing in its toolbox to punish him with other than a written statement.

The National Hunt group is comparing it with what happens if a jockey thrashes a horse, a lengthy ban for the jockey.

In Mr Townend's own words - I am number 1 in the world.  Sadly the only way he will ever learn humility is if owners take the horses away.


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## be positive (6 May 2018)

He doesn't really give any credit to Jonelle for her riding or training just that the mare is a "freak of nature" which is hardly generous, he came across really badly today and I thought Ian Starks comments were surprisingly frank in his interview on his use of the whip and the fact that no rules were broken because there were no rules to cover how Oli rode both horses, hopefully new rules will be written before next season similar to those in racing where the use of the whip is restricted and a ban will be imposed immediately on a jockey that is seen to be outside the rules.


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## jumbyjack (6 May 2018)

Glad OT  didn't win. I've never liked his aggressive style of riding and his heartless attitude to his horses, plus he doesn't know when to shut his big mouth! Of course I don't know him personally, he could be a lovely bloke but I kind of doubt it.


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## Peregrine Falcon (6 May 2018)

Being no.1 in the world does not give you a licence to push a tired horse or use a whip in the manner he did. According to comments in here, it is not the first time he has been spoken to about use of the whip.  Perhaps it is time the rules are revised?


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## Honey08 (6 May 2018)

I expect that there will be some rule changes after this. There needs to be. Yesterday I wondered whether the authorities hadn't eliminated him because they wanted the grand slam attempt and battle for the winner.  If Mary King was banned for three months at Bramham for dangerous riding, surely Oli flogging a tired horse home is dangerous too?

Today, watching Classic Moët rattle practically every show jump and yet leave them up, we joked that Badminton had glued the poles on after Oli to make sure they didn't have to deal with the backlash of Oli winning!


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## AdorableAlice (6 May 2018)

The last sentence on the Telegraph article says 'it is unlikely the whip furore will affect Townend's inclusion on the British Team.

Personally I think it should, and it would serve as a very big reminder to him that he is only as good as his horses.  Of course he could compete as an individual but being barred from the Team based on his welfare standards would be a decent kick in the rollocks for him.  But would be unfair on the owners who plough the money in.


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## daffy44 (6 May 2018)

It was an appalling interview, where he showed that being warned by the Ground Jury was irrelevant to him, I fear nothing short of being immediately banned would make a dent in his attitude.

Its also exceedingly ungenerous to just call Moet a freak of nature, Jonelle rode all three phases beautifully with a smile on their faces,  she and Moet were deserving winners.


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## Mule (6 May 2018)

Hopefully they will introduce a whip rule. They could look at a blood rule too, in relation to bits. Hopefully something positive will come out of this.

 I'd say honey is right about the Badminton organisers. They dodged a bullet in the end


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## DiNozzo (6 May 2018)

Its an awful insight for anyone unfamiliar with the sport, to know that this is how the world's number one treats his horses, and that his team placing will likely be safe. 

Awful sportsmanship from OT, no real apology, complete arrogance in the face of his warning from the ground jury, and slamming the skill of the winner as it was due to the horse 'being a freak of nature'. 

I don't think there's another British rider that I've disliked so much.


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## only_me (6 May 2018)

I felt it was very rude to call Jonelles horse a freak of nature actually - he could have just said she had luck on her side if he didnt want to out and out congratulate her.


Last year at badminton Eilsa Wallace got a yellow card for abuse of horse/pressing an exhausted horse - does anyone know what happened? Or a video of her round?


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## be positive (6 May 2018)

only_me said:



			I felt it was very rude to call Jonelles horse a freak of nature actually - he could have just said she had luck on her side if he didnt want to out and out congratulate her.


Last year at badminton Eilsa Wallace got a yellow card for abuse of horse/pressing an exhausted horse - does anyone know what happened? Or a video of her round?
		
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Didn't that fall at the last fence or very near the end, it should have been pulled up or stopped before it fell, whereas Oli "got away" with pushing his tired horses although they were not that tired they looked in danger of falling so could not be stopped,  the pushing was him trying to get near the time because of the big money, not nursing them home as he tried to imply.


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## sasquatch (6 May 2018)

only_me said:



			I felt it was very rude to call Jonelles horse a freak of nature actually - he could have just said she had luck on her side if he didn&#8217;t want to out and out congratulate her.


Last year at badminton Eilsa Wallace got a yellow card for abuse of horse/pressing an exhausted horse - does anyone know what happened? Or a video of her round?
		
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I'm actually rewatching 2017 right now, if she's the one I'm thinking of she ran the horse into the ground and it fell at the last fence due to how tired it was. Rider threw a bit of a tantrum, hit her fists off the ground and walked away from the horse leaving horse stood blowing with the grooms - Harry Meade was commentating and I think he actually makes a comment about how it needs to be kept moving. Think she also put something on social media that caused controversy due to how she was riding/how she warmed the horse up/some sort of training method. Big black horse, American rider?


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## Mule (6 May 2018)

only_me said:



			I felt it was very rude to call Jonelles horse a freak of nature actually - he could have just said she had luck on her side if he didn&#8217;t want to out and out congratulate her.


Last year at badminton Eilsa Wallace got a yellow card for abuse of horse/pressing an exhausted horse - does anyone know what happened? Or a video of her round?
		
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All I know about it is that the horse was exhausted and she pushed it on. I didn't see it. But I believe she took responsibility and apologised straight afterwards


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## only_me (6 May 2018)

be positive said:



			Didn't that fall at the last fence or very near the end, it should have been pulled up or stopped before it fell, whereas Oli "got away" with pushing his tired horses although they were not that tired they looked in danger of falling so could not be stopped,  the pushing was him trying to get near the time because of the big money, not nursing them home as he tried to imply.
		
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Oh yes, I remember now. Horse fell in the main arena, was absolutely on its knees. Last fence, hurt near fore. Video is on YouTube if google badminton falls 2017, about 6.15 in. A very clearly exhausted horse not being looked after either.


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## only_me (6 May 2018)

sasquatch said:



			I'm actually rewatching 2017 right now, if she's the one I'm thinking of she ran the horse into the ground and it fell at the last fence due to how tired it was. Rider threw a bit of a tantrum, hit her fists off the ground and walked away from the horse leaving horse stood blowing with the grooms - Harry Meade was commentating and I think he actually makes a comment about how it needs to be kept moving. Think she also put something on social media that caused controversy due to how she was riding/how she warmed the horse up/some sort of training method. Big black horse, American rider?
		
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Yes, just watched her fall. That was a clear exhaustion, and a rider tantrum even though fall completely her fault (if Riding an exhausted horse, at least shorten Reins to help support) and then just leaving her horse stood there.
That is a case for outcry, as is the USA rider with the horrid bit/blood, in comparison Oli just looked a bit over use of whip but horses weren&#8217;t battered to finish. 

I think oli has been told off with a warning, ground jury were there and saw it was enough for a warning but not bad enough for a card - I agree. He wasn&#8217;t beating the horse up, or excessively pushing an exhausted horse. That should be enough without the social media witch hunt imo.

Although his statement and interview did him no favours. I still don&#8217;t think the hatred online is justified though, and is just plain horrible.


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## ester (6 May 2018)

Having recorded the BBC footage today as I was out and watched the SJ (and paused it) Ollie appears to give the finger twice on completion of his first SJ round. That's pretty inappropriate too really isn't it?

I do think it's pretty bad that apparently he go fined for whip use at Kelsall two weeks ago and then have issues again, and him still think he is clearly in the right.


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## cundlegreen (6 May 2018)

AdorableAlice said:



			The last sentence on the Telegraph article says 'it is unlikely the whip furore will affect Townend's inclusion on the British Team.

Personally I think it should, and it would serve as a very big reminder to him that he is only as good as his horses.  Of course he could compete as an individual but being barred from the Team based on his welfare standards would be a decent kick in the rollocks for him.  But would be unfair on the owners who plough the money in.
		
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I watched OT on both of his horses today show jumping. After the first horse jumped clear, there was a lot of arm waving to indicate how good he was, but not a pat, or acknowledgement of the horse. Such a contrast to Gemma tattersall who was at pains after her clear to show how much it was the horse. THIS is what gets my goat. Horses giving their all, possibly to their detriment further on in their careers, and the riders not seeming to realise that, actually, they couldn't win without the horse underneath them. You see it a lot with jockeys too, and it really annoys me.


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## be positive (6 May 2018)

A lot of the riders were saying how tough it was yesterday, the going was bad and that the time was tight so I just looked at last years results to compare, only 2 got round within the time last year, MJ and Tim Price, Arctic Soul had 4.4 in 2017 and exactly the same penalties this year, several other well placed combinations were faster this time, possibly a years more experience under their belts allowing them to go faster but it certainly couldn't have been as bad as implied, there were more finishers and 1 less that failed to come forward to SJ.


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## sasquatch (6 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Yes, just watched her fall. That was a clear exhaustion, and a rider tantrum even though fall completely her fault (if Riding an exhausted horse, at least shorten Reins to help support) and then just leaving her horse stood there.
That is a case for outcry, as is the USA rider with the horrid bit/blood, in comparison Oli just looked a bit over use of whip but horses weren&#8217;t battered to finish. 

I think oli has been told off with a warning, ground jury were there and saw it was enough for a warning but not bad enough for a card - I agree. He wasn&#8217;t beating the horse up, or excessively pushing an exhausted horse. That should be enough without the social media witch hunt imo.

Although his statement and interview did him no favours. I still don&#8217;t think the hatred online is justified though, and is just plain horrible.
		
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Some of the riding at the Olympics was arguably horrific as well.

Oli didn't ride 'pretty', he rode to win and he did get very whip happy, but he certainly was nowhere near as bad as Ben Maher pulling his horse over after a refusal or Penelope Leprevost and I hope no one condemning Oli isn't a fan of either of those two (and this is before we think of those many, many dressage riders). Even at the Olympics, we saw serious concerns raised with whip and blood rules and we saw some horrific displays of riding by those who were meant to be at the top level.

I also think there was a big difference between how Oli's horses came in, tired but still jumping cleanly, compared to Elisa Warren's. There were definitely other horses who finished as tired, Wii Limbo is the most obvious one that springs to mind, even Arctic Soul came in tired according to Gemma. Aoife Clarke, who although she didn't compete this year, is another who springs to mind as being an 'ugly' rider sometimes.

Would I ever send a horse to Oli? No, because I hope if I ever have a horse capable of going to that level, I will be the one taking it there.


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## ester (6 May 2018)

The point is though, which I think Scotty made well that you might hit a horse once to see if it picks up, but it rarely makes a difference on a tired horse compared to trying to cajole and carry them home. On none of the smacks did class move away from the stick, so continuing to use it was pointless. 

yes other horses came in tired, but they weren't struck several times, when tired well away from fences or approaching the arena to the finish. 

I have never liked watching Ollie try and get the time regardless of the horse under him.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (7 May 2018)

Wasn't impressed with Ollies reaction after his clear sj round he did eventually pat the horse but his first priority was to gesture at the crowd and camera not really helping himself. Whereas nearly all the other riders even those who had fences down praised their horse.

Imagine if he hadn't knocked fences down on the grey and finished on the same score as Jonelle but lost the grand slam due to being slower xc? 

His interview was poor as well may be time to get a pr person as world number one?


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## angrybird1 (7 May 2018)

Those people saying that others had tired horses and mentioning Ben Mayer and the women with the horse with bleeding mouth due to horrendous bit and nose and.    Yes all those things are wrong but that does not justify what Oliver Townend did.
I'm no fan of eventing but none of the other riders hit their horses like he did.
If his horses were that exhausted he should have pulled up.
Not beaten them.
Disgusting show of greed and arrogence.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2018)

mule said:



			Hopefully they will introduce a whip rule. They could look at a blood rule too, in relation to bits. Hopefully something positive will come out of this.

 I'd say honey is right about the Badminton organisers. They dodged a bullet in the end
		
Click to expand...

There are whip rules: Article 243,  Section 2.2 in the FEI 2018 Jumping Rules.

2.2. Excessive use of the whip
&#8226; The whip may not be used to vent an Athlete&#8217;s temper. Such use is always excessive;
&#8226; The use of a whip on a Horse&#8217;s head is always excessive use;
&#8226; A Horse should never be hit more than three times in a row. If a Horse&#8217;s skin is broken, it is always considered
excessive use of the whip;
&#8226; The whip is not to be used after Elimination;
An Athlete identified as misusing or excessively using the whip will be disqualified and may be fined at the discretion
of the Ground Jury.

There are also rules about blood in the mouth. I agree there should be rules on bitting.

As someone who has only ever done an 80T I tend to avoid these sorts of debates as I feel that  I just have no clue what riding at that level is like and you can't always see whether it is a 'wake up' tap or a hard whack. 

BUT if there are rules, they should be enforced. OT broke the no more than 3 in a row rule. And the blood in the mouth rules also appear not be overlooked with respect to Marilyn Little.

On a more general note, there are quiet, sympathetic riders and there are bullish, heavy handed ones. There are ones who bit up and ones who don't. There are dressage horses who are trained in rollkur and ones who aren't. It is clear this is a simple choice as to how to train and ride and you can get to the very top of the sport with fantastic all-round quiet horsemanship. Think Pius Schwizer, Michael Jung, Charlotte du Jardin. 

I think if rules were very strictly enforced you'd see a lot less 'winning ugly'.


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## Goldenstar (7 May 2018)

Well did he .
That rule is designed To cover excessive use of the whip for disobedience for instance if your horse stops .
If you watch Ollie it looks to me he was waving the whip like a jockey does at the horse part of the time then using the whip threeish Times .
I agree that ride was at the very very limit of what&#8217;s acceptable I think we can be sure the horses where not in any marked in any way .
I think on bitting we need to be very very careful about limiting breaks on the xc .
Before everybody gets in a sweat it would do well to dwell on the damage that can be done to a strong horse in snaffle and the safety of the riders ,jumping a strong keen horse xc is no joke at the higher level .
And there where as many ugly moments with lightly bitted horses .
My advanced horse was frightenly strong at a three day the steeplechase wound her up and you needed some breaks to head into those advanced combinations with any degree of control.
In a strong set up that suited her she was rideable and I needed not to apply the brakes as often or as strongly you will see many strong horses going happily in strong bits when the balance of control between the horse and the rider is right for that team .
I also don&#8217;t understand the sweat up some people are in over Olis interview sure I think he could have been more gracious about Jonelles horse ( who was the best horse over the three days ) but like I said he is what he is hes well trained now at speaking to media but his emotions where showing in that interview .
We are too used to gushing niceness on the telly it but it&#8217;s not real life at that level you saw a flash of what goes on in the mind of a driven type A ruthless competitor in that interview ,in my view much more honest that&#8217;s a lot you see .
he&#8217;s a professional and had just failed to win a huge sum of money his mask was down a bit .


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2018)

All good points GS which I why I tend to avoid being too judgemental. It's a world away from what I do. But I think rules are overlooked in lots of sports as I guess money talks. 

His interview was forgivable in the circumstances. He did himself no favours in the popularity stakes but he was under enormous pressure and the disappointment must have been overwhelming.


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## CoachinaCar (7 May 2018)

The fact that other riders have done wrong does not excuse the way Oli rode. There is no excuse from what I saw. The bay had to make a real effort at the Vicarage V and for his troubles he got three very hard whacks. The grey helped Oli out at the double corner I think it was and got bashed for his trouble.

For me it was nothing to do with how tired everyones horses finished but the unfair way those two horses were ridden. I am not a wimp where horses are concerned but this really shocked me as I could not put any reason to it.

I have not ridden round a 4* and am not likely to and I understand some people will feel my comments are not valid. However I am a regular spectator at Badminton and Burghley (although this time I watched from home), most spectators at Badminton will not have ridden at that level. If us spectators are put off by this type of riding, and I certainly am, we will not go, no spectators and there will be no Badminton, no sponsors etc. So Oli might not care what the public thinks but he should, ML has lost sponsors due to public pressure the same could happen to Oli and it would be all his own fault and no less than he deserves.

I for one am disgusted by what I saw, I watched the video back just in case I was being unfair, unfortunately second viewing disgusted me even more. I am not a keyboard warrior but sometimes you have to stand up for the horse. 

His attitude after his SJ round was absolutely appalling, as if a clear round excuses his dreadful riding of the day before. 

Eventing should be breathing a sigh of relief that he did not win.


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## Tasha! (7 May 2018)

Re the interview, I think in his own weird way he was trying to be complimentary about Jonelle's horse. People can be terribly thin skinned though, especially if they're already down on someone and looking for other things to criticise them about.

I was at badminton and haven't seen the full round yet. When Ollie's horses came past, they looked in better shape than some others. That doesn't excuse over use of the whip, but people tend to get a mob mentality on social media.


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## fetlock (7 May 2018)

Goldenstar said:



			Well did he .
That rule is designed To cover excessive use of the whip for disobedience for instance if your horse stops .
If you watch Ollie it looks to me he was waving the whip like a jockey does at the horse part of the time then using the whip threeish Times .
I agree that ride was at the very very limit of what&#8217;s acceptable I think we can be sure the horses where not in any marked in any way .
I think on bitting we need to be very very careful about limiting breaks on the xc .
Before everybody gets in a sweat it would do well to dwell on the damage that can be done to a strong horse in snaffle and the safety of the riders ,jumping a strong keen horse xc is no joke at the higher level .
And there where as many ugly moments with lightly bitted horses .
My advanced horse was frightenly strong at a three day the steeplechase wound her up and you needed some breaks to head into those advanced combinations with any degree of control.
In a strong set up that suited her she was rideable and I needed not to apply the brakes as often or as strongly you will see many strong horses going happily in strong bits when the balance of control between the horse and the rider is right for that team .
I also don&#8217;t understand the sweat up some people are in over Olis interview sure I think he could have been more gracious about Jonelles horse ( who was the best horse over the three days ) but like I said he is what he is hes well trained now at speaking to media but his emotions where showing in that interview .
We are too used to gushing niceness on the telly it but it&#8217;s not real life at that level you saw a flash of what goes on in the mind of a driven type A ruthless competitor in that interview ,in my view much more honest that&#8217;s a lot you see .
he&#8217;s a professional and had just failed to win a huge sum of money his mask was down a bit .
		
Click to expand...

Yes, he did. 
On his second round he breached that "no more than three" rule, hitting the horse five times and on at least three occasions. 
He was only (mostly) waving the whip after the penultimate fence.


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## scats (7 May 2018)

Has anyone got a link to the win ugly interview? I missed yesterdays showjumping.


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## Mule (7 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			There are whip rules: Article 243,  Section 2.2 in the FEI 2018 Jumping Rules.

2.2. Excessive use of the whip
&#8226; The whip may not be used to vent an Athlete&#8217;s temper. Such use is always excessive;
&#8226; The use of a whip on a Horse&#8217;s head is always excessive use;
&#8226; A Horse should never be hit more than three times in a row. If a Horse&#8217;s skin is broken, it is always considered
excessive use of the whip;
&#8226; The whip is not to be used after Elimination;
An Athlete identified as misusing or excessively using the whip will be disqualified and may be fined at the discretion
of the Ground Jury.

There are also rules about blood in the mouth. I agree there should be rules on bitting.

As someone who has only ever done an 80T I tend to avoid these sorts of debates as I feel that  I just have no clue what riding at that level is like and you can't always see whether it is a 'wake up' tap or a hard whack. 

BUT if there are rules, they should be enforced. OT broke the no more than 3 in a row rule. And the blood in the mouth rules also appear not be overlooked with respect to Marilyn Little.

On a more general note, there are quiet, sympathetic riders and there are bullish, heavy handed ones. There are ones who bit up and ones who don't. There are dressage horses who are trained in rollkur and ones who aren't. It is clear this is a simple choice as to how to train and ride and you can get to the very top of the sport with fantastic all-round quiet horsemanship. Think Pius Schwizer, Michael Jung, Charlotte du Jardin. 

I think if rules were very strictly enforced you'd see a lot less 'winning ugly'.
		
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware there were clear cut rules. They'll have to start enforcement across the board then. When riders aren't punished for breaking the rules, naturally, those inclined to do so will continue to. Mind you, I understand why the ground jury may be hesitant to put their necks on the line. They'd have to be confident that they'd have full support from those in charge of the federations.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

There is no rule regards number ! It is for the GJ to decide what is acceptable and they will have seen more of it than you see on the TV .  I think a few are getting mixed up with racing. 
Fence judges are encouraged to report any potential abuse and then the officials will watch the round carefully.


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## WandaMare (7 May 2018)

I think Oli's biggest mistake was not accepting the grand jury's decision gracefully. Implying that sometimes 'you need to ride ugly' just sounded arrogant and immature imo. He did the wrong thing by his horses, we can probably understand the reasons why to some degree, but now he needs to step up and behave like a champion, not just win titles. I hope he will learn a big lesson from this fiasco, otherwise I do fear some of his sponsors might get turned off by him. I would if I was looking to support the sport and I would definitely no way send a horse to him, I wouldn't trust what he might do when no-one was watching. 

I was lucky enough to go for the day yesterday and I have to say I have never seen Badminton looking so impressive. Bathing in sunshine with the biggest crowds I have ever seen, everywhere looked lovely and people really seemed to be enjoying the whole thing. Lots of proscecco picnics, dogs in cooling blankets, some very glamorous summer fashions, it was a really fun day out. It would have been nice to see one of the British riders win, but in the end I was so glad Jonelle did, she so deserved it after that X country round. Unlike Oli, she came over really well in all her interviews, so all in all much better for the sport. I was also very pleased to see a mare win, I think it makes her only the 5th or 6th mare ever to win, so it was made it very exciting to be there and I enjoyed seeing her do her lap of honour.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

Tasha! said:



			Re the interview, I think in his own weird way he was trying to be complimentary about Jonelle's horse. People can be terribly thin skinned though, especially if they're already down on someone and looking for other things to criticise them about.

I was at badminton and haven't seen the full round yet. When Ollie's horses came past, they looked in better shape than some others. That doesn't excuse over use of the whip, but people tend to get a mob mentality on social media.
		
Click to expand...

Well put . I love it when they all pile in commenting on how somebody rode a horse. Very few(if any) of the detractors have the talent to be in that position let alone know what he was sitting on and getting feedback from . He knows hes in the spotlight and his riding was deemed ok by those that matter.


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## Honey08 (7 May 2018)

Tasha! said:



			Re the interview, I think in his own weird way he was trying to be complimentary about Jonelle's horse. People can be terribly thin skinned though, especially if they're already down on someone and looking for other things to criticise them about.

I was at badminton and haven't seen the full round yet. When Ollie's horses came past, they looked in better shape than some others. That doesn't excuse over use of the whip, but people tend to get a mob mentality on social media.
		
Click to expand...

I think that he was being complementary about Jonelle's horse too.  I was also at Badminton and he looked good when he came past where I was.  I was on the fence when all this started, but I totally changed my mind on seeing the video.

Oli's horses were perfectly fit enough to get round and didn't need pulling up, but they weren't fit enough to make the time in that heat (just like 99% of the other horses there weren't).  Only Oli didn't care, he kept pushing and hitting because he wanted the money more.


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## fetlock (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Well put . I love it when they all pile in commenting on how somebody rode a horse. Very few(if any) of the detractors have the talent to be in that position let alone know what he was sitting on and getting feedback from . He knows hes in the spotlight and his riding was deemed ok by those that matter.
		
Click to expand...

It wasnt deemed ok by Ian Stark. I think he still qualifies as "those that matter".
Likewise the three on the ground jury.


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## Mule (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			There is no rule regards number ! It is for the GJ to decide what is acceptable and they will have seen more of it than you see on the TV .  I think a few are getting mixed up with racing. 
Fence judges are encouraged to report any potential abuse and then the officials will watch the round carefully.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps that's the problem? It's hard on the ground jury to make those kind of judgements, particularly at big competitions with big name riders.

 I remember during the rollkur furore a lot of people were blaming the stewards in the warm up rings. If they don't have clear directions and support from those in charge it's not an easy decision.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2018)

There are rules.

I quuoted from the wrong rule book - here is the correct one:

https://inside.fei.org/sites/defaul...ules December 2017 - changes integrated_0.pdf

Page 45.

He breaks the no more than 3 rule and the no hitting the horse after the last fence rule.


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## Mooseontheloose (7 May 2018)

I think you're right. Perhaps we should stop wanting lovely interviews with smiling sportsman (any sport) and actually see what the real feelings are. After all, whether you like OT or not, he's at the top of the sport with a lot of different horses. His dressage test was beautiful, no sign of the horse being frightened or tense - unlike some others.
A lot of people are so media savvy these days that they are anodyne. I can't help feeling how tough OT may be - and I don't know him personally so this is a supposition - that the negative comments he gets must hurt. And it doesn't seem to matter if he has smacked his horse or not, the internet warriors are on his case.
I've no idea how I would behave if I had £255K dangling in front of me. I would like to think I would behave with perfect equanimity as it slipped away but I'm pretty sure I would be stamping my feet and bawling my eyes out.
Incidentally, I think there are one or two horses there that should not have been competing, finished dreadfully tired, had appalling show jumping rounds - as opposed to OT's horses - but no one seems to comment on them.
I'm delighted for Jonelle Price, her round was magic, but if she'd tipped up would she have received this kind of vitriol? As for calling her horse a freak of nature, I think that's a compliment, if a rather gauche one.


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## Mule (7 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			There are rules.

I quuoted from the wrong rule book - here is the correct one:

https://inside.fei.org/sites/defaul...ules December 2017 - changes integrated_0.pdf

Page 45.

He breaks the no more than 3 rule and the no hitting the horse after the last fence rule.
		
Click to expand...

You would think I'd have bothered to familiarise my self with the rule book considering that I also event


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## ester (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			There is no rule regards number ! It is for the GJ to decide what is acceptable and they will have seen more of it than you see on the TV .  I think a few are getting mixed up with racing. 
Fence judges are encouraged to report any potential abuse and then the officials will watch the round carefully.
		
Click to expand...

Yes there is, as already posted, no more than 3 times for one incident. I don't think people are getting confused with racing at all.... the rules for racing are quite different.

Page 46 526.3 f). 
https://inside.fei.org/sites/defaul...ules December 2017 - changes integrated_0.pdf

After this incident I do actually think there is room for a total number per round rule to be introduced which was what Ian was suggesting yesterday too.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

mule said:



			Perhaps that's the problem? It's hard on the ground jury to make those kind of judgements, particularly at big competitions with big name riders.

 I remember during the rollkur furore a lot of people were blaming the stewards in the warm up rings. If they don't have clear directions and support from those in charge it's not an easy decision.
		
Click to expand...

The ground jury is made up of three very experienced horse people( they will have competed at that level) that probably have a better handle on it than the general public. At least one will be mobile on CC course during the CC most would not think twice about black flagging a rider that was not acting in the best interest of the horse during a round.


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## milliepops (7 May 2018)

CoachinaCar said:



			The fact that other riders have done wrong does not excuse the way Oli rode. There is no excuse from what I saw. The bay had to make a real effort at the Vicarage V and for his troubles he got three very hard whacks. 
.
		
Click to expand...

Great post Goldenstar, I think that sums it up for me broadly.

Just on this^. Having walked the course, the point where the bay took the whip some distance after the Vee was directly before the hollow, which was a testing combination with angles more awkward than the TV showed. If I felt my horse not quite on point at the Vee then I might want to check it was attentive on the approach to a complex combination.

I'm not accusing or defending OT, it's not my job. But sometimes there are additional considerations that aren't immediately apparent.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

ester said:



			Yes there is, as already posted, no more than 3 times for one incident. I don't think people are getting confused with racing at all.... the rules for racing are quite different.

Page 46 526.3 f). 
https://inside.fei.org/sites/defaul...ules December 2017 - changes integrated_0.pdf

After this incident I do actually think there is room for a total number per round rule to be introduced which was what Ian was suggesting yesterday too.
		
Click to expand...

As it says it is a principle that has to be taken into account by the ground jury in their decisions it is not a mandatory limit as it is in racing. Then of course the number of times it made contact has to be taken into account


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

Mooseontheloose said:



			I'm delighted for Jonelle Price, her round was magic, but if she'd tipped up would she have received this kind of vitriol? As for calling her horse a freak of nature, I think that's a compliment, if a rather gauche one.
		
Click to expand...

I know which one of the two I would rather rode my horses. JP is not without having a certain reputation within the sport enough said.


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## ester (7 May 2018)

Right, and the ground jury warned him so they obviously considered it an issue.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

ester said:



			Right, and the ground jury warned him so they obviously considered it an issue.
		
Click to expand...

A warning is the least of their sanctions available on the day. That is most likely what Oli expected. However the internet warrior experts got out of control and to be blunt its not up to them.


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## ester (7 May 2018)

Yes, I'm well aware that it is the least of their sanctions, it is still a sanction. 

I haven't seen a thread anywhere where people have been calling for a greater sanction TBH, just disappointed in his continued approach to his horses and competition- which he merely confirmed in interview. I do think he stands out because I don't think in my years of watching I have ever seen any of the other great male riders ride the end of an XC to get the time like I have seen him ride it a few times. It certainly hasn't made for great headlines.


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## DD (7 May 2018)

if whips spurs and harsh bitting were banned then things might be different, and better for all the horses.


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## WandaMare (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			A warning is the least of their sanctions available on the day. That is most likely what Oli expected. However the internet warrior experts got out of control and to be blunt its not up to them.
		
Click to expand...

Its not up to them no, but public perception is important and he'd be mad to just dismiss what people have said. He's had his warning now, I think the ground jury got it right, he needs to repair the damage to his reputation, and move on. If I were him I would be looking for some PR coaching this morning.


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## OrangeAndLemon (7 May 2018)

I don't like the direction this thread has taken. I wasn't riding that horse, I don't ride it everyday so I can't comment on whether OT rode well or like a bully as some have suggested.

I've seen OT jump brideless and the horses he rides look happy and well cared for. The course jury felt a warning was justified and nothing else. I don't believe caring owners would trust their talented horses to just anyone and I don't think it's possible to consistently compete at this level, and for the horses to keep competing at this level, if your tactics are fear and punishment.

For those who have easily accused these riders, brave enough to commit to this dangerous heart breaking sport, I hope you are never subject to the same criticism.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

ester said:



			Yes, I'm well aware that it is the least of their sanctions, it is still a sanction. 

I haven't seen a thread anywhere where people have been calling for a greater sanction TBH, just disappointed in his continued approach to his horses and competition- which he merely confirmed in interview. I do think he stands out because I don't think in my years of watching I have ever seen any of the other great male riders ride the end of an XC to get the time like I have seen him ride it a few times. It certainly hasn't made for great headlines.
		
Click to expand...

I have had horses with a few riders and out of all of them OT stands above the others IMO both in his care of the horses and his determination to do do best by them . He is blunt and doesnt bullshit some people dont see that as a positive but I do!
Some of the 'in crowd riders' having been there I frankly wouldnt send them a rocking horse.
Take a look at some of the riders given yellow cards a few would surprise you . However they didnt get a hammering on the internet over it.


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## Mooseontheloose (7 May 2018)

Well said.
There's more dreadful riding at the average local show, where no disciplinary action is taken, than I saw at Badminton.


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## Honey08 (7 May 2018)

Some of us aren't blanket slating him.  On the thread on Equestrian News I said I thought people were unfairly critical of him and that he'd ridden well and sympathetically lately, and indeed from what I saw when he rode past us at Badminton I thought people were over reacting.  But when I saw the video I agreed that he'd ridden too hard and thoughtlessly on this day.  He was clearly after the money at all costs, and was not nice to watch.  I'm not an Oli basher usually.  He's local to me, I've met him and he was a personable guy.  I usually root for him, but on this occasion I was very disappointed.  An "armchair rider" can have a reasonable opinion, you know.


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## Mooseontheloose (7 May 2018)

WandaMare said:



			Its not up to them no, but public perception is important and he'd be mad to just dismiss what people have said. He's had his warning now, I think the ground jury got it right, he needs to repair the damage to his reputation, and move on. If I were him I would be looking for some PR coaching this morning.
		
Click to expand...

PR coaching or tell the truth.... It would be interesting to get the unadulterated version of events from all the riders. I've watched rider media training- how to tell the nearly truth!


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## WandaMare (7 May 2018)

Honey08 said:



			Some of us aren't blanket slating him.  On the thread on Equestrian News I said I thought people were unfairly critical of him and that he'd ridden well and sympathetically lately, and indeed from what I saw when he rode past us at Badminton I thought people were over reacting.  But when I saw the video I agreed that he'd ridden too hard and thoughtlessly on this day.  He was clearly after the money at all costs, and was not nice to watch.  I'm not an Oli basher usually.  He's local to me, I've met him and he was a personable guy.  I usually root for him, but on this occasion I was very disappointed.  An "armchair rider" can have a reasonable opinion, you know.
		
Click to expand...

I'm the same, I have supported him many times previously when people have been negative, but he did ride too 'ugly' this time and his warning was fair imo. I'm not knocking him because who's to say how the rest of us would have reacted given the same circumstances. I just hope that having had time to reflect he will accept the warning more gracefully and have the humility to reconsider his approach for next time.


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## Goldenstar (7 May 2018)

Mooseontheloose said:



			Well said.
There's more dreadful riding at the average local show, where no disciplinary action is taken, than I saw at Badminton.
		
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Exactly you horses living horrible lives all over the place in unsuitable conditions belonging to people who don&#8217;t realise their horse is lame and keep going you see lame horses will terrible unhealthy muscle development all the time at lower level shows enduring terrible riding .


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## Honey08 (7 May 2018)

There are dreadful things, much worse, happening all over the place, it's true.  It still doesn't excuse how Oli rode that day.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2018)

Actually I think this thread is pretty balanced and fair to OT. 
He infringed FEI rules on excessive use  of the whip. He was sanctioned. So there WAS a problem with how he rode. People are disappointed about that because he is at the very top level of the sport and is therefore a role model to many. 

Maybe the terrible riding at grassroots has something to do with the examples set at the top!

My local SJ venue (unaff) is really strict and has warned, disqualified and even banned a number of kids over the years for excessive use of the whip or for losing their temper. I have seen parents flip out over it and rant at the show secretary but actually I think strict enforcement of all horse welfare rules is totally rhe right thing to do at all level of the sport.


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## Supertrooper (7 May 2018)

Oliver T has put a statement on Facebook page


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## Goldenstar (7 May 2018)

WandaMare said:



			Its not up to them no, but public perception is impoQrtant and he'd be mad to just dismiss what people have said. He's had his warning now, I think the ground jury got it right, he needs to repair the damage to his reputation, and move on. If I were him I would be looking for some PR coaching this morning.
		
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Actually no he does not .
Unlike many riders Oliver part owns or owns many of his horses he is able to be much more his own man than many many  riders .
All Oliver needs to do is keep on the correct side of the rules .
Most of us have a need to be liked I think perhaps he does not certainly not by people who dont know him .


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2018)

I am  impressed by that statement. Seems very genuine and does accept responsibility for how he rode.


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## wkiwi (7 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			I am  impressed by that statement. Seems very genuine and does accept responsibility for how he rode.
		
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I'm cynical. Is he genuine or is it a PR statement because of the backlash? 
Time will tell


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## WandaMare (7 May 2018)

Goldenstar said:



			Actually no he does not .
Unlike many riders Oliver part owns or owns many of his horses he is able to be much more his own man than many many  riders .
All Oliver needs to do is keep on the correct side of the rules .
Most of us have a need to be liked I think perhaps he does not certainly not by people who don&#8217;t know him .
		
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He also has quite a few sponsors and sells merchandise and equestrian products.

Just seen his apology, perhaps public perception is pretty important to him after all. 

He's done the right thing. Time to move on.


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## Kadastorm (7 May 2018)

Honestly didn&#8217;t think that he would write an apology, especially after his interview but I&#8217;m glad he did. Could be a PR thing but better than just ignoring the situation. He will have to work hard to repair the damage he has caused to his reputation still but this is a start.


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## fetlock (7 May 2018)

Apology

Edit- oops sorry, just seen it's already been posted.

https://www.olivertownend.com/news/apology/

"Having watched my Badminton cross-country rounds for the first time when I got home last night, Im so disappointed and upset about the way I rode. It didnt look good and I dont want to look like that.

I fully accept the warning I received from the ground jury. My competitive instincts got the better of me and I will work hard to improve in this area.

I try really hard to give my horses the best ride possible  I try to be as fit as possible, to be as light as I can be, to sit as still as I can, to get them on the best strides and take-off points to minimise the energy they have to waste. I care enormously about their wellbeing and their welfare.

I feel I have let my amazing team down. I am aware of my position in the sport and of my responsibility to be a suitable role model to younger people, and I apologise to them.

I love my horses  I live for them. I am extremely proud of all four horses  Ballaghmor Class and Cooley SRS, and the two who went so brilliantly at Kentucky, Cooley Master Class and MHS King Joules  and of every horse on my yard."


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## milliepops (7 May 2018)

wkiwi said:



			I'm cynical. Is he genuine or is it a PR statement because of the backlash? 
Time will tell
		
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I try to take people at face value. I think he comes across well (in general) when not in the heat of the moment, clearly works really hard and seems to be someone who appreciates his position in the sport so I would read this as genuine.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2018)

wkiwi said:



			I'm cynical. Is he genuine or is it a PR statement because of the backlash? 
Time will tell
		
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It may be a PR statement but a straightforward apology that accepts the criticism, takes responsibility and makes no excuses is always welcome and is actually quite rare. There will be people who chuck it back in his face (a quick browse of the comments shows you that) but I think he deserves a lot of credit for this.


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## Clannad48 (7 May 2018)

wkiwi said:



			I'm cynical. Is he genuine or is it a PR statement because of the backlash? 
Time will tell
		
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Me too - actions will tell if he is genuine


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## Goldenstar (7 May 2018)

It&#8217;s a well written statement as said above time to move on .


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## scats (7 May 2018)

Very glad to see the statement appear on his official FB.  Yes, I imagine some of it is PR damage limitation (though I suspect a lot of the damage has been done), but he has addressed the issue rather than ignore it, so respect to him for that.

I hope he can move past this now, and perhaps, even when the stakes are high, approach his riding with a little less aggression.  As people have said, its not the first time he has been warned about whip usage, but hes also not the first person and he certainly wont be the last.


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## Honey08 (7 May 2018)

He had to make a statement like that, it wasn't going to be brushed under the carpet.  I'm glad he has, but I'm cynical too. That statement will only wash if he goes forward and learns from this.  He is a fabulous rider, but if he's had a few warnings for misuse of the whip lately he needs to rethink what he's doing.  Time will tell. People will be watching him like a hawk now and he depends a lot on his fans - for merchandise and his fan club.  I hope he does.


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

Fair play to him that hes apologised.    Maybe having watched it back hes realised how bad it was.
The interview he gave with Claire Balding yesterday was awful.
Im guessing he was pushed in to making that statement though.


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## fetlock (7 May 2018)

Honey08 said:



			He had to make a statement like that, it wasn't going to be brushed under the carpet.  I'm glad he has, but I'm cynical too. That statement will only wash if he goes forward and learns from this.  He is a fabulous rider, but if he's had a few warnings for misuse of the whip lately he needs to rethink what he's doing.  Time will tell. People will be watching him like a hawk now and he depends a lot on his fans - for merchandise and his fan club.  I hope he does.
		
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I agree. He'll have realised that he had no choice but to address it with a statement along those lines, if not just to appease both the owners and sponsors, the latter having also taken a bit of flack on social media and the former also in a difficult position if asked for comment.


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## ester (7 May 2018)

Even if it isn't said wholeheartedly and he still thinks it was justified, I do hope that on watching the footage back he does realise how bad it looks and that is important assuming he is among the many that want to ensure horses stay in the olympics.


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## Mooseontheloose (7 May 2018)

I'm quite sure if OT turns into Mother Theresa and starts handing out food to the homeless there'll still be people gunning for him.


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

Mooseontheloose said:



			I'm quite sure if OT turns into Mother Theresa and starts handing out food to the homeless there'll still be people gunning for him.
		
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Sorry but thats not really fair.    How he rode on Saturday was clearly wrong.  He pushed those horses when they were already giving their all.
As hes said his competitive nature got the better of him.
He is arrogant As How he behaved after the show jumping and the interview afterwards showed.
Would you prefer nothing was said about it and riders like him are allowed to thrash horses round in the hope of winning?


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## only_me (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			Sorry but thats not really fair.    How he rode on Saturday was clearly wrong.  He pushed those horses when they were already giving their all.
As hes said his competitive nature got the better of him.
He is arrogant As How he behaved after the show jumping and the interview afterwards showed.
Would you prefer nothing was said about it and riders like him are allowed to thrash horses round in the hope of winning?
		
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Seriously? He&#8217;s apologised for his actions and has agreed that it didn&#8217;t look good and will improve. Stop thrashing a rider for making a mistake & has apologised.
So move on.

What do you want him to do, hand over all his horses to the rspca? Throw himself in the lake for mercy? Do some kind of horse community service?! Be publiclally stoned?

His horses looked fantastic. He talks to the point and is honest with someone. Not everyone likes that I get it. I prefer that to someone swimming in bull tbh. If I was ever in a position to be the owner of a top exceptionally talented event horse he is someone who I would seriously consider as a rider for it. The horses looked superb, went well xc and came out on Sunday looking fresh.


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## lannerch (7 May 2018)

Totally agree, oil pushed the whip
Rule to the limit, the warning totally justified but the hatred completely over the top!
If his horses were treated as bad as some make out, and he rode them like this all the time they would never go as well for him as they do, and he would not get the results he does.

Yes hes arrogant but that still does not worsen the crime. 
On the day the right result happened, lets lay it to rest and move on.


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## ester (7 May 2018)

I honestly never understand the 'move on' comments, obviously if people wish to they don't have to read comments, but I don't see the issue with people discussing these sorts of things and their impacts and it did only happen two days ago, we aren't raking over  6 month ground?


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## wkiwi (7 May 2018)

lannerch said:



			On the day the right result happened.
		
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Yes i think it has all detracted from the fact that a mare won for only the 5th time !!! Am sick of people running down mares when there are so many super talented mares out there. 
Also that a female rider has won for the first time in ages. 
Also that a New Zealander won (as I was born in NZ)
Also that it was on a British-bred mare - which has to be fantastic for the British breeding industry.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2018)

It's fabulous that 3 of the top 4 are women.

Gemma Tatersall does camps at Somerford and I went to one in September after checking that a 70/80cm jumper would be allowed in!! In the event I was the only person at camp at that lowly level so I was put into a 90 minute private lesson with her. She was just lovely. So encouraging and helpful. Was delighted to see her do so well.


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## ester (7 May 2018)

AS never looks easy either.


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## lannerch (7 May 2018)

lannerch said:



			Totally agree, oil pushed the whip
Rule to the limit, the warning totally justified but the hatred completely over the top!
If his horses were treated as bad as some make out, and he rode them like this all the time they would never go as well for him as they do, and he would not get the results he does.

Yes hes arrogant but that still does not worsen the crime. 
On the day the right result happened, lets lay it to rest and move on.
		
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And  when I wrote that I had not read his apology, good on him I say, and it sounds very genuine to me, which is why his horses go so well for him.

We all make mistakes its how we learn from them that matter and it sounds to be Oli certainly has.


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## wkiwi (7 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			It's fabulous that 3 of the top 4 are women.

Gemma Tatersall does camps at Somerford and I went to one in September after checking that a 70/80cm jumper would be allowed in!! In the event I was the only person at camp at that lowly level so I was put into a 90 minute private lesson with her. She was just lovely. So encouraging and helpful. Was delighted to see her do so well.
		
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Jealous - what an opportunity 
She comes across very well in interviews; very natural.


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## Ambers Echo (7 May 2018)

ester said:



			AS never looks easy either.
		
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No he looks very strong at times!! 

At the end of the XC day Gemma was chatting to the camp photographer and apparently said "I really like that chestnut mare who had a lesson on her own". I was pretty ecstatic about that! Amber has a famous fan!!


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## ester (7 May 2018)

lannerch said:



			And  when I wrote that I had not read his apology, good on him I say, and it sounds very genuine to me, which is why his horses go so well for him.

We all make mistakes it&#8217;s how we learn from them that matter and it sounds to be Oli certainly has.
		
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You've read that he got fined only two weeks ago for over use of the whip at Kelsall too? So yes it is how we learn from them that matter and people understandably get more frustrated when that learning doesn't seem to happen- similar to the Marilyn Little situation ATM too.


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## ester (7 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			No he looks very strong at times!! 

At the end of the XC day Gemma was chatting to the camp photographer and apparently said "I really like that chestnut mare who had a lesson on her own". I was pretty ecstatic about that! Amber has a famous fan!!
		
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you should have asked him for a quick print to be signed!


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## Tiddlypom (7 May 2018)

lannerch said:



			We all make mistakes its how we learn from them that matter and it sounds to be Oli certainly has.
		
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But has he learnt from it? He has plenty of previous, the most recent just two weeks ago at Kelsall. The apology sounded genuine (whoever drafted it out) so let's hope that he means it this time.


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## Bustermartin (7 May 2018)

ester said:



			You've read that he got fined only two weeks ago for over use of the whip at Kelsall too? 

Was that over use of the whip?   I thought maybe it was an administrative error as there was no horse mentioned.....?  If it was, then we really do need to question if he will learn
		
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## ester (7 May 2018)

hmm let me see if I can check.


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## ester (7 May 2018)

It was reported as such by two people I trust to know these things but they quote 4.7 (which is substitution not whip use).


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## MyBoyChe (7 May 2018)

Oli is a competitor thru and thru.  I think he got carried away by the thought of winning all that money!  Thats no excuse and he should have ridden much more sensitively and without the over use of the whip and all that flapping about.  Surely part of the problem is that if there are rules in place, and those rules are broken, nothing much happens.  A verbal warning was given, it will be on his record but had he won, he would have gotten away with breaking the rules.  Automatic disqualification would surely help competitors to stick to the rules, no sponsor or owner is going to want to lose so if a rider breaks the rules and their horse is disqualified Im sure we would see a remarkable turn around in behaviour.  I cant see the point in there being rules if breaking them carries no penalty.  I rather like Oli, from what I know of him he is very hard working and puts in long hours.  He could probably do with thinking a bit more about how he comes across to the general public who love the sport but maybe dont know so much about horses, whilst I completely get what he says I can see why a lot dont and he seems to come across as uncaring to many.  I dont  think that is the case but horses are undoubtedly the tool of his trade and he doesnt seem to do sentiment, whilst that is not a crime it offends many.  Im not for one minute suggesting that excuses his riding on Saturday, as soon as Class pulled up I said to my OH "Id be amazed if that horse passes the vet in the morning, it looks cream crackered, he's absolutely ridden it into the ground".  I was wrong though!  A definite look at the rule book and its enforcement are required.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

ester said:



			It was reported as such by two people I trust to know these things but they quote 4.7 (which is substitution not whip use).
		
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Good job he wasnt hung then?  

If only there had been this sort of outcry and character assassination when the saint MK was banned for two months for two incidents of dangerous riding. LOL why do we hate people who are driven to win ? He played a game of poker with the rules im sure the horse has suffered no damage or the punishment would have been worse.


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## Sussexbythesea (7 May 2018)

I havent watched all the rounds yet on catch-up but was there on the day day. The fact is Oli got two horses around that course well and safely. It sounds as if he was over zealous with the whip but maybe that saved his horse from having a crashing fall? Alternatively he could have just pulled up. 

I was at the Bullfinch when Clare Abbott fell. It was a nasty fall especially for her Horse who if hasnt got some injury from that Id be surprised.  Perhaps her horse was too tired and she should have pulled up earlier? Maybe a smack on the bum may have got her tired horse to pick up a bit more? 

Another faller at the Joules corner - you could see it going wrong way before, poor Horse was never going to clear the third part, the rider shouldnt have tried but I guess his competitive streak took over and he had a go. Thats what competitors do, they push the limits and thats why rules are needed but not to squash all the competition away as then you may as well not run the competition in the first place.


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## only_me (7 May 2018)

Sussexbythesea said:



			I was at the Bullfinch when Clare Abbott fell. It was a nasty fall especially for her Horse who if hasnt got some injury from that Id be surprised.  Perhaps her horse was too tired and she should have pulled up earlier? Maybe a smack on the bum may have got her tired horse to pick up a bit more?
		
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europrince was one horse who definitely didnt need a whip! I shudder to think how much more enthusiastic he would have been if she used the whip lol. He was 100% not tired and had literally been bouncing around the course till that point making it look like a novice. Both are fine though  best round to watch though, looked like so much fun!

https://www.facebook.com/Blackheart...7739.515813381768619/2127199163963358/?type=3 

At the quarry!!


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## Sussexbythesea (7 May 2018)

only_me said:



			europrince was one horse who definitely didnt need a whip! I shudder to think how much more enthusiastic he would have been if she used the whip lol. He was 100% not tired and had literally been bouncing around the course till that point making it look like a novice. Both are fine though  best round to watch though, looked like so much fun!

https://www.facebook.com/Blackheart...7739.515813381768619/2127199163963358/?type=3 

At the quarry!!
		
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Glad theyre fine. His neck on impact looked nasty and he looked shocked afterwards. I was walking the course backwards. Shame then, I wonder what happened to make them fall so spectacularly over a relatively simple fence? He seemed to catch a leg but not sure. 

Just before he fell.


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

only_me said:



			Seriously? Hes apologised for his actions and has agreed that it didnt look good and will improve. Stop thrashing a rider for making a mistake & has apologised.
So move on.

What do you want him to do, hand over all his horses to the rspca? Throw himself in the lake for mercy? Do some kind of horse community service?! Be publiclally stoned?

His horses looked fantastic. He talks to the point and is honest with someone. Not everyone likes that I get it. I prefer that to someone swimming in bull tbh. If I was ever in a position to be the owner of a top exceptionally talented event horse he is someone who I would seriously consider as a rider for it. The horses looked superb, went well xc and came out on Sunday looking fresh.
		
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Read  what I said  again and my previous post.    I admire that hes given a apology.
but lets hope he genuinely means it and learns from it.
Maybe the rules should be tightened up and stuck to.
A lifetime ban for someone who gets three warnings may make him a bit more careful.


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## WandaMare (7 May 2018)

Mooseontheloose said:



			I'm quite sure if OT turns into Mother Theresa and starts handing out food to the homeless there'll still be people gunning for him.
		
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Yes maybe, but not the ones that matter.


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## NinjaPony (7 May 2018)

Personally I think they should hit riders where it hurts-in the pocket. I would imagine that if fines were given out for warnings like that, it would make riders think twice about flouting the rules under pressure.


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## Nicnac (7 May 2018)

Haven't commented before but think it's useful to look at the FEI warning log.  OT has had 2 VERBAL warnings - no yellow cards (in FEI events).  Other riders on there have done far far worse, but not placed nor are high profile nor world number 1 so pass under the radar.

Last week he won Kentucky and was placed on his second horse; everybody was so so pleased for him and basked in the glory of a British win.  

Yesterday he placed 2nd and 5th at the biggest event in the world under enormous pressure.  His horses kept jumping well Saturday in really tough conditions, they looked and jumped really well yesterday.

He's apologised for overuse of the whip but guess some think he should be wearing sack cloth and ashes?

I went XC training early this morning - I am but a really ****e amateur - it was seriously hard work in the heat.  Those Badminton horses were all uber fit.


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## be positive (7 May 2018)

Sussexbythesea said:



			Glad they&#8217;re fine. His neck on impact looked nasty and he looked shocked afterwards. I was walking the course backwards. Shame then, I wonder what happened to make them fall so spectacularly over a relatively simple fence? He seemed to catch a leg but not sure. 

Just before he fell.






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That is almost like a racing fall, the horse didn't get his landing gear in the right place, his back end has gone too high, momentum takes over and the back end almost goes past the front so landing too steeply to recover, he was lucky to get up and walk away without an obvious injury although he did look shocked, on tv it looked as if he slightly misjudged the fence and  slightly dived at it, he certainly never looked tired.


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## Mooseontheloose (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			Sorry but thats not really fair.    How he rode on Saturday was clearly wrong.  He pushed those horses when they were already giving their all.
As hes said his competitive nature got the better of him.
He is arrogant As How he behaved after the show jumping and the interview afterwards showed.
Would you prefer nothing was said about it and riders like him are allowed to thrash horses round in the hope of winning?
		
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Your reply is silly. I wouldn't prefer it if nothing was said that was not the point of my post. If he's arrogant that's irrelevant, there are lots of top sportspeople who probably aren't the nicest. 
I would not judge him on his personality unless I knew him. However there seem to be lots of posters who feel free to comment on his personality and also make false comments on this board.  That's an arrogance in itself.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			Sorry but thats not really fair.    How he rode on Saturday was clearly wrong.  He pushed those horses when they were already giving their all.
As hes said his competitive nature got the better of him.
He is arrogant As How he behaved after the show jumping and the interview afterwards showed.
Would you prefer nothing was said about it and riders like him are allowed to thrash horses round in the hope of winning?
		
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How arrogant is that reply . How do you know those horses were giving their all,you werent riding them to state the obvious!
They both came out fresh on sunday which is more than could be said for some!  He got the lowest sanction he could for what had transpired as I see on another post you think he should be banned for 3 warnings well you obviously arent aware of the FEI disciplinary system that is in place and of course they could have stopped him on course which is another sanction that is used when needed. Obviously some of the riding club riders know better than the experienced top end riders who make up the ground jury.


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

Mooseontheloose said:



			Your reply is silly. I wouldn't prefer it if nothing was said that was not the point of my post. If he's arrogant that's irrelevant, there are lots of top sportspeople who probably aren't the nicest. 
I would not judge him on his personality unless I knew him. However there seem to be lots of posters who feel free to comment on his personality and also make false comments on this board.  That's an arrogance in itself.
		
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Sorry but a forum is for discussion.   I dislike seeing horses thrashed for money.  Im not a fan of racing but at least there is clear punishment for whip happy jockeys.
Oliver Townend is arrogant or at least gives a very good impression of it.
Yes hes apologised for it.
Only time will tell if hes learnt from it.


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## milliepops (7 May 2018)

NinjaPony said:



			Personally I think they should hit riders where it hurts-in the pocket. I would imagine that if fines were given out for warnings like that, it would make riders think twice about flouting the rules under pressure.
		
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He was fined at Kelsall. Rule 4.7 as mentioned above which relates to substitutions.

here's the BE Disciplinary list. The FEI also have a yellow card list which is easy to find via google.
https://www.britisheventing.com/asp...itemTitle=Sporting+Regulations+and+Discipline


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## Goldenstar (7 May 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			Actually I think this thread is pretty balanced and fair to OT. 
He infringed FEI rules on excessive use  of the whip. He was sanctioned. So there WAS a problem with how he rode. People are disappointed about that because he is at the very top level of the sport and is therefore a role model to many. 

Maybe the terrible riding at grassroots has something to do with the examples set at the top!

My local SJ venue (unaff) is really strict and has warned, disqualified and even banned a number of kids over the years for excessive use of the whip or for losing their temper. I have seen parents flip out over it and rant at the show secretary but actually I think strict enforcement of all horse welfare rules is totally rhe right thing to do at all level of the sport.
		
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You dont see people at the top riding with terrible positions and in a completely unbalanced way you just dont .


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			How arrogant is that reply . How do you know those horses were giving their all,you werent riding them to state the obvious!
They both came out fresh on sunday which is more than could be said for some!  He got the lowest sanction he could for what had transpired as I see on another post you think he should be banned for 3 warnings well you obviously arent aware of the FEI disciplinary system that is in place and of course they could have stopped him on course which is another sanction that is used when needed. Obviously some of the riding club riders know better than the experienced top end riders who make up the ground jury.
		
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I would disagree that both horses came out fresh.  Yes the first jumped clear but the second didnt and  looked tired.  yes im aware there are rules in place to stop riders on the course. Sadly the very experienced ground jury in their wisdom did not stop him although I think they should have done.
He should have been disqualified and in my opinion if he does it again should be banned for life.
I really dont care if you agree or not.    I dont care if its a four star rider or a riding club rider animal abuse is not on.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			I would disagree that both horses came out fresh.  Yes the first jumped clear but the second didnt and  looked tired.  yes im aware there are rules in place to stop riders on the course. Sadly the very experienced ground jury in their wisdom did not stop him although I think they should have done.
He should have been disqualified and in my opinion if he does it again should be banned for life.
I really dont care if you agree or not.    I dont care if its a four star rider or a riding club rider animal abuse is not on.
		
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I guess you dont ride then?


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			I guess you dont ride then?
		
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Yes, I do and have done for forty years.   Whats that got to do with it?


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			Yes, I do and have done for forty years.   Whats that got to do with it?
		
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Everything! work it out.


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## lannerch (7 May 2018)

milliepops said:



			He was fined at Kelsall. Rule 4.7 as mentioned above which relates to substitutions.

here's the BE Disciplinary list. The FEI also have a yellow card list which is easy to find via google.
https://www.britisheventing.com/asp...itemTitle=Sporting+Regulations+and+Discipline

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 Very interesting thanks for the link. Pippa Funnell has a yellow card ( a worse offence) where is the furore for that ? 
And it just shows how Chinese whispers start, how the substitution rule break has been changed to a whip offence.


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## milliepops (7 May 2018)

Yup lannerch :/

They used to publish the disciplinaries in the BE magazine.  I don't know if that's still the case, been out of the sport too long.


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## lannerch (7 May 2018)

Its not in the be life magazine all members get or certainly not in the issue I have looked at. Was it not in eventing mag though that you have to subscribe to, and I no longer do.


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Everything!
		
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So you think riding is animal abuse?
Or were you trying to say that if i didnt ride I didn't know what I'm talking about?
No t really sure what you mean to be honest.
Just so you know, yes I ride and have owned a fair few horses and ponies over the years.
Certainly I dont ride at Oliver T level and have never had any desire to.  That doesnt mean I cant comment on what i feel was a awful display of cruelty.
Im certainly not alone in being disgusted by it and that he got away with it.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			So you think riding is animal abuse?
Or were you trying to say that if i didnt ride I didn't know what I'm talking about?
No t really sure what you mean to be honest.
Just so you know, yes I ride and have owned a fair few horses and ponies over the years.
Certainly I dont ride at Oliver T level and have never had any desire to.  That doesnt mean I cant comment on what i feel was a awful display of cruelty.
Im certainly not alone in being disgusted by it and that he got away with it.
		
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Some would describe riding as horse abuse ,I guess you dont?
Clearly the ground jury didnt agree with you ,so are you saying they are wrong ?  He would have been pulled up on course if he was doing what you say he was. He hasnt got away with anything !
I hope you see what I am getting at, it is perception. It is why we have ground juries that take care of disciplinary issues rather than leaving it to the masses who dont always know the full story.


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## only_me (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			and that he got away with it.
		
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But he didn&#8217;t get away with it - he was given a verbal warning. And he has apologised. And it was definitely NOT an &#8220;awful display of cruelty&#8221;. What a weird statement to make.

You are sounding like a petulant child who didn&#8217;t get their own way - grow up. Maybe accept that the ground jury know better than you. They felt that the warning was sufficient to the crime. He doesn&#8217;t need to be hung drawn and quartered by people online. 

Stop spouting hatred, I doubt you will be happy unless he hands over all his horses to the rspca.


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Clearly the ground jury didnt agree with you ,so are you saying they are wrong ?  He would have been pulled up on course if he was doing what you say he was.
		
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Obviously, I feel the ground jury was wrong.  yes he should have been pulled up.
I have no idea why he wasnt.
Its not just me saying what he did was wrong.
Read the thread, Listen to what Ian Stark said in his interview with Claire Balding.
Even read Oliver Townends own statement.
Remember, public opinion counts.   
No idea what you are trying to say in thinking I dont ride, maybe trying to say I dont know what im talking about?
To be honest I really dont care what you think.    What I do care about is animal abuse in the name of sport.


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

only_me said:



			But he didn&#8217;t get away with it - he was given a verbal warning. And he has apologised. And it was definitely NOT an &#8220;awful display of cruelty&#8221;. What a weird statement to make.

You are sounding like a petulant child who didn&#8217;t get their own way - grow up. Maybe accept that the ground jury know better than you. They felt that the warning was sufficient to the crime. He doesn&#8217;t need to be hung drawn and quartered by people online. 

Stop spouting hatred, I doubt you will be happy unless he hands over all his horses to the rspca.
		
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Dont think its me that needs to grow up.
Yes it was cruelty.  What else would you call being repeatedly hit with a stick?
Peop!e can have different opinions to you you know.
Just because you appear to be the OT fan club doesnt mean everyone is.


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## only_me (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			Dont think its me that needs to grow up.
		
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Not even worth the effort now. You go on being angry and cross at the horrific display of animal cruelty that he did and decide that the ground jury and FEI officials are wrong. And you are right. After all, the ground jury were there and you saw it on tv, so you must be right.


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## WandaMare (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			So you think riding is animal abuse?
Or were you trying to say that if i didnt ride I didn't know what I'm talking about?
No t really sure what you mean to be honest.
Just so you know, yes I ride and have owned a fair few horses and ponies over the years.
Certainly I dont ride at Oliver T level and have never had any desire to.  That doesnt mean I cant comment on what i feel was a awful display of cruelty.
Im certainly not alone in being disgusted by it and that he got away with it.
		
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'a awful display of cruelty', no, that is OTT in this case. You can't say you know better than the ground jury at Badminton, you have to give them some credit and respect for what they do. I certainly think that talking about a life ban is an extreme view considering what actually happened. Oli has received a warning and apologised. He didn't get away with it at all, he has received a very high profile official warning which will have some impact his career, and now must prove to people that he has learnt his lesson.


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

only_me said:



			But he didn&#8217;t get away with it - he was given a verbal warning. And he has apologised. And it was definitely NOT an &#8220;awful display of cruelty&#8221;. What a weird statement to make.

You are sounding like a petulant child who didn&#8217;t get their own way - grow up. Maybe accept that the ground jury know better than you. They felt that the warning was sufficient to the crime. He doesn&#8217;t need to be hung drawn and quartered by people online. 

Stop spouting hatred, I doubt you will be happy unless he hands over all his horses to the rspca.
		
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So why did he apologise if he didnt do wrong????


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			Obviously, I feel the ground jury was wrong.  yes he should have been pulled up.
I have no idea why he wasnt.
Its not just me saying what he did was wrong.
Read the thread, Listen to what Ian Stark said in his interview with Claire Balding.
Even read Oliver Townends own statement.
Remember, public opinion counts.   
No idea what you are trying to say in thinking I dont ride, maybe trying to say I dont know what im talking about?
To be honest I really dont care what you think.    What I do care about is animal abuse in the name of sport.
		
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Dont get on a horse then as that is abuse as well just at a different level! 
He wasnt pulled up because what happened did not warrant it as shown by the ground juries action he was not even given a YC ,please show me evidence of an experienced event rider who thinks he should have been.


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

WandaMare said:



			'a awful display of cruelty', no, that is OTT in this case. You can't say you know better than the ground jury at Badminton, you have to give them some credit and respect for what they do. I certainly think that talking about a life ban is an extreme view considering what actually happened. Oli has received a warning and apologised. He didn't get away with it at all, he has received a very high profile official warning which will have some impact his career, and now must prove to people that he has learnt his lesson.
		
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Yes, if it had been the first time.   It wasnt.  just hope its the last time.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			So why did he apologise if he didnt do wrong????
		
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Have you never heard 'when your in a hole stop digging' ;-)


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## Sandstone1 (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Have you never heard 'when your in a hole stop digging' ;-)
		
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Why am I in a hole???
Im certainly not the only person to have this opinion.
Where have I said riding a horse is abuse?
The display on Saturday was a disgrace.  I dont care if you agree with me or not.


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## AdorableAlice (7 May 2018)

The discussion has plummeted somewhat from the last time I read it.

However, Mr Townend has acknowledged all the points raised and made an appropriate comment.  That was very much needed and hopefully at Chatsworth next weekend he will be seen to ride within the rules and according to whatever conditions prevail.


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## windand rain (7 May 2018)

he has admitted it didnt look pretty and was overtaken by competiteness he apologised and was quite humble about it. I know it was wrong of him to try too hard to win without thinking about the horses but give the guy a break I doubt very much he will do it again. Not only that but he certainly isnt the worst offender he is getting flack. Just watch some local level showjumping mostly kids but a large number of adults screaming at them saying kick it, smack it whack it. that is an eyeopener I know 2 wrongs dont make a right but he has learned his lesson. If he hasnt then perhaps a short  ban might be appropriate


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## ester (7 May 2018)

I do alway think the yellow card list and the BE sanctions list can make for interesting reading. 

I also think that the continuation of equine events at the olympics rely somewhat on portraying the fabulous bond/partnership between horse and rider and pros have to be careful not to jeopardise that image. 

Unfortunatey for eventing joe public doesn't really understand about rollkur, but everyone knows a what a whip is/does.


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## HashRouge (7 May 2018)

AdorableAlice said:



			The discussion has plummeted somewhat from the last time I read it.

However, Mr Townend has acknowledged all the points raised and made an appropriate comment.  That was very much needed and hopefully at Chatsworth next weekend he will be seen to ride within the rules and according to whatever conditions prevail.
		
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I suspect he is going to be very careful about the way he rides XC, after this weekend's furore. After all, no point being world and UK number 1 if everyone hates you and thinks you abuse your horses! 
I have to say I think there is some very emotive language being bandied about on this thread. I don't think that either of Oli's rides constituted an "awful act of cruelty" or however they were described. I don't think he was "abusing" his horses with his riding, either. If I hadn't seen him ride, and had only read this thread, I would be envisaging him flogging a horse round that was so exhausted it could barely climb over the jumps! I do however agree with whoever it was who said earlier on the thread that his riding was at the very limits of what was acceptable (well, I'd argue he crossed those limits), and found his ride on Ballaghmor Class quite uncomfortable to watch (missed Cooley's run as was out with the horses). I also think it made a pretty rubbish spectacle for any non-horsey viewers, especially when compared with the likes of Michael Jung, Ros Canter and that fab Spanish rider (I sadly didn't see Jonelle's ride).


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## teapot (7 May 2018)

lannerch said:



			Very interesting thanks for the link. Pippa Funnell has a yellow card ( a worse offence) where is the furore for that ? 
And it just shows how Chinese whispers start, how the substitution rule break has been changed to a whip offence.
		
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She jumped after a fall going by the FEI list. A rider fall that was in the show jumping I seem to remember. 

OT is the only person to received anything at Badminton.


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

teapot said:



			She jumped after a fall going by the FEI list. A fall that was in the show jumping I seem to remember. 

OT is the only person to received anything at Badminton.
		
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That we know of !


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## teapot (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			That we know of !
		
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The FEI list has been updated as of today as OT's warning is on there.


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## Mooseontheloose (7 May 2018)

Perhaps it would be a good idea for everyone to watch all the material from Badminton. Watch the dressage and see which horses look calm, relaxed and happy. 
Watch the xc, and see whether all the falls were horse mistakes or whether there were riders who could have done better and see which horses did finish very very tired.
Then watch the showjumping and especially at the lower end see which horses really should have stayed in their stables on Sunday morning, whether or not they passed the vet.
And then decide whether or not OT deserves quite all the vitriol.
I am not excusing him, just saying that there is a very slanted view from some people.


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## ester (7 May 2018)

I suspect a fair few will once it becomes available *taps fingers impatiently


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## {97702} (7 May 2018)

HashRouge said:



			If I hadn't seen him ride, and had only read this thread, I would be envisaging him flogging a horse round that was so exhausted it could barely climb over the jumps!
		
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No - that was last time all the furore happened about his riding  

OTs apology is meaningless for me - he has done it before and he will no doubt do it again, it was not pleasant to watch this weekend and unfortunately that will now be what a huge number of people think happens all the time in Eventing.


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## {97702} (7 May 2018)

In fact.... now I've looked at the FEI list.... 2014, O Townend, verbal warning for excessive use of whip and spurs.

Seems he doesn't learn


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## ester (7 May 2018)

If you're travelling backwards you missed 12/5/17 floors castle 'Abuse of horse / inappropriate use of whip'


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## {97702} (7 May 2018)

ester said:



			If you're travelling backwards you missed 12/5/17 floors castle 'Abuse of horse / inappropriate use of whip'  

Click to expand...

Oh he has plenty of them - Kelsall a couple of weeks ago in fact - but I was referring to him doing it at Badminton, on TV, with the full glare of media coverage.  I don't think he is a cruel horse abuser as has been suggested on some FB posts I have read, but I do have to wonder about his lack of common sense....


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## ester (7 May 2018)

The Kelsall one seems to be a horse change, no mention of whip.


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## lannerch (7 May 2018)

Lévrier;13770940 said:
			
		


			Oh he has plenty of them - Kelsall a couple of weeks ago in fact - but I was referring to him doing it at Badminton, on TV, with the full glare of media coverage.  I don't think he is a cruel horse abuser as has been suggested on some FB posts I have read, but I do have to wonder about his lack of common sense....
		
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Kelsall was not abuse of horse but a substitution infringement see earlier posts. But he does have a history of warnings for over usage of whip.


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## {97702} (7 May 2018)

ester said:



			The Kelsall one seems to be a horse change, no mention of whip.
		
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Eeeek sorry OT!  I done you wrong there, apologies, I was sure I'd seen it on a list somewhere as being misuse of whip, my bad  

The list generally does make interesting reading


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

Lévrier;13770943 said:
			
		


			Eeeek sorry OT!  I done you wrong there, apologies, I was sure I'd seen it on a list somewhere as being misuse of whip, my bad  

The list generally does make interesting reading 

Click to expand...

Actually it is enlightening how much is at the lower levels not just confined to the elite who are more scrutinised


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## {97702} (7 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Actually it is enlightening how much is at the lower levels not just confined to the elite who are more scrutinised
		
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Actually how does that differ from what I said??!!


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## milliepops (7 May 2018)

HashRouge said:



			I also think it made a pretty rubbish spectacle for any non-horsey viewers, especially when compared with the likes of Michael Jung, Ros Canter and that fab Spanish rider (I sadly didn't see Jonelle's ride).
		
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no one is perfect :wink3: Carlos Fernandez Diaz received a verbal warning last month for dangerous riding. (not a witch hunt, the name just stuck out at me when looking at the list earlier). I'm only pointing this out because people seem to really have it in for OT and there are examples all over the place of people being good horsemen on one day, and not so great on another.


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## {97702} (7 May 2018)

What did Pippa Funnell get a yellow card for on Billy the Biz?  Think it was at Aachen?  Just being nosy


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## teapot (7 May 2018)

Lévrier;13770971 said:
			
		


			What did Pippa Funnell get a yellow card for on Billy the Biz?  Think it was at Aachen?  Just being nosy 

Click to expand...

She got back on and jumped the final fence in the show jumping after falling off.


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## {97702} (7 May 2018)

teapot said:



			She got back on and jumped the final fence in the show jumping after falling off.
		
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Mon Dieu!   Thanks Teapot


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## teapot (7 May 2018)

Lévrier;13770984 said:
			
		


			Mon Dieu!   Thanks Teapot 

Click to expand...

Shocking behaviour isn't it?   Though I suppose the fall rule is the fall rule...


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## Northern Hare (7 May 2018)

Apologies for going off at a tangent, but I was wondering if the final result yesterday would have been different if the dressage coefficient had been applied - instead of the new dressage marking without the CE.

However, I don&#8217;t fully understand how the CE was calculated - was it just a case of multiplying the &#8220;good marks&#8221; by 1.5 please?


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## teapot (7 May 2018)

According to Equiratings, the top three would have been the same


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## Northern Hare (7 May 2018)

teapot said:



			According to Equiratings, the top three would have been the same
		
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Hi Teapot, thanks very much for your reply, that&#8217;s really interesting!


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## popsdosh (7 May 2018)

Northern Hare said:



			Hi Teapot, thanks very much for your reply, that&#8217;s really interesting! 

Click to expand...

Not done on purpose of course. To old and wise to be caught by that one me thinks


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## teapot (7 May 2018)

That said I've seen other posts on various social media outlets saying otherwise so...


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## Kat_Bath (7 May 2018)

If I've calculated it correctly, the top 10 would have been Jonelle, Oli (SRS), Ros C, Oli (BC), Mark T, Gemma (AS), Michael J, Lauren K, Tom Mc and Padraig. Placings 1-3 the same but then all change.


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## lannerch (7 May 2018)

teapot said:



			She got back on and jumped the final fence in the show jumping after falling off.
		
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Did that mean elimination, I know it does now, but its a new rule for this year, expect the fei had it already and Pippa forgot is this the case?


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## teapot (7 May 2018)

lannerch said:



			Did that mean elimination, I know it does now, but it&#8217;s a new rule for this year, expect the fei had it already and Pippa forgot is this the case?
		
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I'm fairly sure the fall = elimination rule has been in a while for FEI, both xc and sj.  Given it's a young horse I wouldn't be surprised if Pippa popped it over for confidence, rather than any malice.


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## lannerch (7 May 2018)

teapot said:



			I'm fairly sure the fall = elimination rule has been in a while for FEI, both xc and sj.  Given it's a young horse I wouldn't be surprised if Pippa popped it over for confidence, rather than any malice.
		
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Agree no malice would have been intended , I think that ones totally forgiven .


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## Dave's Mam (7 May 2018)

teapot said:



			I'm fairly sure the fall = elimination rule has been in a while for FEI, both xc and sj.  Given it's a young horse I wouldn't be surprised if Pippa popped it over for confidence, rather than any malice.
		
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I would have thought same.  Young horse, end on a good note.


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## lannerch (7 May 2018)

Googling fei yellow card makes very interesting reading , Tim price had a verbal warning too http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...s-456837/RK=2/RS=B8WCzAmP2PmsL2T5x6LWv26bhpA-

Hary Meade ok years ago at burghley the year oli won on carousel quest was red carded and prevented from riding his other horse, now he certainly learnt from his mistake.


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## only_me (7 May 2018)

lannerch said:



			Googling fei yellow card makes very interesting reading , Tim price had a verbal warning too http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...s-456837/RK=2/RS=B8WCzAmP2PmsL2T5x6LWv26bhpA-
.
		
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That was 2014


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## Mule (7 May 2018)

I had a look at the xc yellow card list. An American rider got one for jumping a 3* fence while riding a 1* course. Not a mistake I'd make 

There's also stuff like not showing the horse's passport or the rider not having regulated safety equipment. A lot of the cards aren't anything to do with horse welfare. Although there are a lot for overuse of the whip and the most common is jumping after 3 refusals.

Also of interest is the percentage of 'abuse of horse' cards in showjumping is much higher than in endurance. Wouldn't have thought that judging from the press coverage.


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## lannerch (8 May 2018)

only_me said:



			That was 2014
		
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 I know and Harrys red card many before that, but they still happened.
Andrew Nicholson used to have a reputation for being hard on  his horses, Jonelle price for riding dangerously fast at a fence.


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## lannerch (8 May 2018)

mule said:



			I had a look at the xc yellow card list. An American rider got one for jumping a 3* fence while riding a 1* course. Not a mistake I'd make 

There's also stuff like not showing the horse's passport or the rider not having regulated safety equipment. A lot of the cards aren't anything to do with horse welfare. Although there are a lot for overuse of the whip and the most common is jumping after 3 refusals.

Also of interest is the percentage of 'abuse of horse' cards in showjumping is much higher than in endurance. Wouldn't have thought that judging from the press coverage.
		
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I think its becauce in endurance there have been those photos of horses with badly broken legs extreme abuse.

Added to that a lot more people show jump, so percentage wise its probably no greater.


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## Mule (8 May 2018)

lannerch said:



			I think it&#8217;s becauce in endurance there have been those photos of horses with badly broken legs extreme abuse.
		
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Yes, that makes sense.


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## Velcrobum (8 May 2018)

Andrew Nicholson was brutal with his horses, he has subsequently stated after the fall when he broke his neck that his riding had become softer and more sympathetic . Yes OT's riding was ugly waving the whip like a jockey and the commentators on Radio Badminton referred to as scrubbing along to ride a finish. There has certainly been a trial by social media that appears to be escalating into a witch hunt.


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## Mooseontheloose (8 May 2018)

It's ridiculous. Ground jury has had their say. He's apologised. Why are people even going there now. 
And calling AN brutal is fairly judgemental.


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## Mule (8 May 2018)

Mooseontheloose said:



			It's ridiculous. Ground jury has had their say. He's apologised. Why are people even going there now. 
And calling AN brutal is fairly judgemental.
		
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The conversation on this thread hasn't been about OT in days. The last posts were about yellow cards.


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## Mooseontheloose (8 May 2018)

So why start it up again?


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## Tiddlypom (8 May 2018)

Maybe some folk were late to the party and weren't aware that HHO had decided that the discussion was closed?


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## ihatework (8 May 2018)

On the FEI sanction issue I find it disconcerting there are no disciplinary actions in dressage. Because that&#8217;s a squeaky clean sport ..... not.


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## ester (8 May 2018)

It is always staggering when discussion forums get used for discussion. 


IHW I was wondering if that was part of the issue with their not being many endurance ones too? I think stewarding has been questioned in the past for both sport.  I wonder if it is also in part because 'continuing after 3 refusals/getting back on after you fell off' etc are all very clear cut non-arguable points in comparison to the non-jumping sports?


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## fetlock (8 May 2018)

Published a few minutes ago. 

http://www.bhs.org.uk/our-charity/press-centre/news/2018/may/statement-on-oliver-townend

"Gemma Stanford, Director of Welfare at The British Horse Society said; The British Horse Society supports the horse and rider in all equine disciplines under the condition that the highest welfare and safety standards are adhered to at all times. The welfare of the horse should always be paramount. Riders at this level have an increased responsibility as they are role models and should also be setting an example for the next generation coming through our sport. The behaviour displayed by Oliver Townend was completely unacceptable. We strongly believe that the sanctions given to Mr Townend by the FEI were not high enough in this particular case. The British Horse Society will be raising these concerns to the FEI.


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## ihatework (8 May 2018)

ester said:



			It is always staggering when discussion forums get used for discussion. 


IHW I was wondering if that was part of the issue with their not being many endurance ones too? I think stewarding has been questioned in the past for both sport.  I wonder if it is also in part because 'continuing after 3 refusals/getting back on after you fell off' etc are all very clear cut non-arguable points in comparison to the non-jumping sports?
		
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I suspect you are right - there isn&#8217;t a clear cut and easy way to define things like noseband tightness (yet) and how deep is too deep/rollkeur. It need brave direction from the top and the stewards backs fully covered. 

Don&#8217;t get me started on endurance. If ever there was a more corrupt and abusive horse sport ....


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## caladria (8 May 2018)

ester said:



			It is always staggering when discussion forums get used for discussion. 


IHW I was wondering if that was part of the issue with their not being many endurance ones too? I think stewarding has been questioned in the past for both sport.  I wonder if it is also in part because 'continuing after 3 refusals/getting back on after you fell off' etc are all very clear cut non-arguable points in comparison to the non-jumping sports?
		
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I'm not particularly convinced that any of the horse sports are really ready to be held up as a shining beacon of consistent stewarding... there seems to be an element of pot luck on XC as to whether the stewards care or not and certain days riders are sanctioned when perhaps on another day they wouldn't be.


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## fburton (8 May 2018)

ihatework said:



			I suspect you are right - there isnt a clear cut and easy way to define things like noseband tightness (yet) ...
		
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What about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ2yJHN6PKQ


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## be positive (8 May 2018)

fburton said:



			What about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ2yJHN6PKQ

Click to expand...

Well that would eliminate the majority of dressage competitors, using the one finger test, from what I have seen, although that noseband is not the best fitting to use as an example in theory it should be simple enough to have a set maximum tightness measured where shown in the video.


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## ester (8 May 2018)

caladria said:



			I'm not particularly convinced that any of the horse sports are really ready to be held up as a shining beacon of consistent stewarding... there seems to be an element of pot luck on XC as to whether the stewards care or not and certain days riders are sanctioned when perhaps on another day they wouldn't be.
		
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I certainly wasn't suggesting there were any shining beacons!


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## fburton (8 May 2018)

be positive said:



			Well that would eliminate the majority of dressage competitors, using the one finger test, from what I have seen, although that noseband is not the best fitting to use as an example in theory it should be simple enough to have a set maximum tightness measured where shown in the video.
		
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I believe you! For a relative outsider to this game (i.e. me!) can people explain why it wouldn't work in practice?


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## Mule (8 May 2018)

fburton said:



			I believe you! For a relative outsider to this game (i.e. me!) can people explain why it wouldn't work in practice?
		
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I don't know why looser nosebands wouldn't work in dressage. The western riders don't use any at all. Despite them riding on a loose rein they ride with heavy reins and big curb bits with long shanks so I think they have a connection to the bit even if it doesn't look like it.
 Mind, I'm not sure because I haven't ridden western

II'm also just learning dressage so there's tons I don't know about that aswell. My friend rides at gp though and she leaves nosebands pretty loose so tight nose bands mustn't be necessary:confused4: Mabey someone else can give us the answer


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## Sandstone1 (8 May 2018)

fetlock said:



			Published a few minutes ago. 

http://www.bhs.org.uk/our-charity/press-centre/news/2018/may/statement-on-oliver-townend

"Gemma Stanford, Director of Welfare at The British Horse Society said; The British Horse Society supports the horse and rider in all equine disciplines under the condition that the highest welfare and safety standards are adhered to at all times. The welfare of the horse should always be paramount. Riders at this level have an increased responsibility as they are role models and should also be setting an example for the next generation coming through our sport. The behaviour displayed by Oliver Townend was completely unacceptable. We strongly believe that the sanctions given to Mr Townend by the FEI were not high enough in this particular case. The British Horse Society will be raising these concerns to the FEI.
		
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Give it a while and the OT fanclub will be saying that The Bhs dont know what they are talking about.


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## Mule (8 May 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			Give it a while and the OT fanclub will be saying that The Bhs dont know what they are talking about.
		
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Lol


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## TGM (8 May 2018)

Interesting to see what sort of effect the BHS statement will have on his sponsors, some of which must be wavering a bit anyway.  Surely you don't want to be seen to be supporting a rider who has been publically criticised by the national equestrian body?


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## Mule (8 May 2018)

tgm said:



			i
		
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## Mule (8 May 2018)

TGM said:



			Interesting to see what sort of effect the BHS statement will have on his sponsors, some of which must be wavering a bit anyway.  Surely you don't want to be seen to be supporting a rider who has been publically criticised by the national equestrian body?
		
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I'd say if he hadn't apologised he'd be in trouble with his sponsors but the statement he released was good.


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## {97702} (8 May 2018)

mule said:



			I'd say if he hadn't apologised he'd be in trouble with his sponsors but the statement he released was good.
		
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Noooo it was false and unconvincing   Actions speak louder than words......


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## ihatework (8 May 2018)

fburton said:



			What about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ2yJHN6PKQ

Click to expand...

Hence the yet! There are gauges out there but how they could/would be implemented would require some discussion. I can see it happening in the future, will be interesting to see how it goes with the Dutch(? Or whichever nation it is)


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## ihatework (8 May 2018)

fburton said:



			I believe you! For a relative outsider to this game (i.e. me!) can people explain why it wouldn't work in practice?
		
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At the moment it needs &#8216;by in&#8217;. FEI, stewards, competitors. It will take a while for attitudes to change, not least because it will cause some &#8216;problems&#8217; for horses already moving up the level whose riders are reliant on strapping the gobs shut tight.

A little bit like the showing world. The bulk of the population can see that the majority of show horses are obese, but until judging attitudes change then horses will continue to be in &#8216;show condition&#8217;


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## TGM (8 May 2018)

mule said:



			I'd say if he hadn't apologised he'd be in trouble with his sponsors but the statement he released was good.
		
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I'm afraid that statement was so obviously not genuine and not written by him, coming as it did after his 'win ugly' interview, which more truly reflected his real attitude.


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## ester (8 May 2018)

It was interesting reading American comments re. Marilyn Little that they thought the taper gauge was being used in Europe. 

It seems like a very simple resolution to the problem to me, with few if any problems with it's use. I'm not sure if those against it are such because they don't think it will work/is fair, or they deny the existance of the problem in the first place.


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## ester (8 May 2018)

TGM said:



			I'm afraid that statement was so obviously not genuine and not written by him, coming as it did after his 'win ugly' interview, which more truly reflected his real attitude.
		
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But even if ungenuine it does get his sponsors off the hook a bit.


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## be positive (8 May 2018)

ester said:



			It was interesting reading American comments re. Marilyn Little that they thought the taper gauge was being used in Europe. 

It seems like a very simple resolution to the problem to me, with few if any problems with it's use. I'm not sure if those against it are such because they don't think it will work/is fair, or they deny the existance of the problem in the first place.
		
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I would like to see how it would work with a padded noseband, the one in the video was a plain thin one of the type rarely used now and certainly hardly ever in a dressage competition, a wider padded one may make it more difficult to have a definitive result especially with a horses head being tapered under the noseband to a degree that varies from horse to horse, it may well be looser at the bottom than the top and the bridle makers could quickly develop something that is going to get round the rules, I can see something stiffened to allow the very front to have space yet still be cranked tight at the sides and back, while riders think they need to have tight nosebands they will always be trying to get round the rules.

It should be simple but I don't think it will be.


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## TGM (8 May 2018)

ester said:



			But even if ungenuine it does get his sponsors off the hook a bit.
		
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But his statement obviously wasn't enough to convince the BHS!  And you have to think why top riders are sponsored in the first place, and that is usually because the general horsey public look up to them and trust their judgement, and think if Oli T uses it, it must be good!  It is interesting to note that when I checked some of his sponsors' FB pages they had only put up early photos of him from Badminton, couldn't see any taken after his XC performance!  Bit of a shame if you sponsor a top rider and you can't brag about his top placings at Badminton because so many people now disapprove of him!


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## Clodagh (8 May 2018)

ester said:



			It is always staggering when discussion forums get used for discussion. 

?
		
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It is totally unacceptable.


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## ester (8 May 2018)

Ah good point BP thanks  

I'm never sure about the impact of the removal of sponsorship, partly on the basis that there will always be others waiting in the wings. If sponsorship is removed does that come with a clause that riders are no longer allowed to use those products (if purchased by them) in case an ongoing association is presumed?


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## TGM (8 May 2018)

ester said:



			Ah good point BP thanks  

I'm never sure about the impact of the removal of sponsorship, partly on the basis that there will always be others waiting in the wings. If sponsorship is removed does that come with a clause that riders are no longer allowed to use those products (if purchased by them) in case an ongoing association is presumed?
		
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I have no idea!  But if, for example, a horse feed company sponsored him, he would probably get their feed for free, plus money towards his competing costs.  If they withdrew their sponsorship I think he would probably be so disgruntled he wouldn't want to actually have to buy their feed, so unlikely to be an issue.  As to whether other sponsors would queue up to fill their space, I suspect they wouldn't want to do so straightaway whilst his actions are still so fresh in the public's mind, although in the long term he may be able to recoup.  I think it depends on the products as well I suppose, I wouldn't want to be his horse feed sponsor in particular, if the message that could be inferred is that horses fed that feed need to be flogged home to finish!  (I am not casting aspersions on that particularly feed company, BTW, just giving an example of how their thinking about the matter might go.  Ideally, you'd want to be sponsoring someone whose horse finishes Badminton 
as fresh as a daisy!).


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## ester (8 May 2018)

yes, I guess I always think of hats, as they are so careful to show their names these days and I'd be gutted if I had to change a hat that fits


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## TGM (8 May 2018)

ester said:



			yes, I guess I always think of hats, as they are so careful to show their names these days and I'd be gutted if I had to change a hat that fits  

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Well I suppose a comparison to that is saddles, and he does have a saddle sponsor, so I suppose that is similar in he wouldn't want to change a saddle he really liked!  Although I think hats are one of the ultimate things to sponsor given how much photos concentrate on riders' faces and therefore the hat, and the brand is quite often clearly discernible - Charlotte Dujardin and the CO Ayr8 springs to mind.  Probably not so obvious what brand the saddle is when the rider's bum and legs are covering most of it!


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## fetlock (9 May 2018)

TGM said:



			But his statement obviously wasn't enough to convince the BHS!  And you have to think why top riders are sponsored in the first place, and that is usually because the general horsey public look up to them and trust their judgement, and think if Oli T uses it, it must be good!  It is interesting to note that when I checked some of his sponsors' FB pages they had only put up early photos of him from Badminton, couldn't see any taken after his XC performance!  Bit of a shame if you sponsor a top rider and you can't brag about his top placings at Badminton because so many people now disapprove of him!
		
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Leading showjump manufacturer Jump 4 Joy told Sportsmail it will assess its future links with him in light of his riding at Badminton. A spokesperson said: &#8216;We take animal welfare very seriously and following the incident we can confirm that we will be reviewing all our options in connection with Oliver Townend going forward.&#8217;

Irish company GAIN Equine Nutrition, which provides nutritional support to Townend in the form of tailored diets for his horses, told Sportsmail that it will review the incident before making a decision.

Anne Priestman, UK National Sales Manager for the company, said: &#8216;We are aware of the incident...we take animal welfare very seriously and are committed to the highest standards; we are reviewing this incident.&#8217;


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## Mule (9 May 2018)

fetlock said:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Leading showjump manufacturer Jump 4 Joy told Sportsmail it will assess its future links with him in light of his riding at Badminton. A spokesperson said: &#8216;We take animal welfare very seriously and following the incident we can confirm that we will be reviewing all our options in connection with Oliver Townend going forward.&#8217;

Irish company GAIN Equine Nutrition, which provides nutritional support to Townend in the form of tailored diets for his horses, told Sportsmail that it will review the incident before making a decision.

Anne Priestman, UK National Sales Manager for the company, said: &#8216;We are aware of the incident...we take animal welfare very seriously and are committed to the highest standards; we are reviewing this incident.&#8217;
		
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Interesting


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## popsdosh (9 May 2018)

mule said:



			Interesting
		
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Yes and what will happen when the 'ladies that lunch' furore dies down? Not a lot.


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## Rowreach (9 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Yes and what will happen when the 'ladies that lunch' furore dies down? Not a lot.
		
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Trial by media, whatever the subject, absolutely sickens me


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## Bernster (9 May 2018)

Rowreach said:



			Trial by media, whatever the subject, absolutely sickens me 

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I haven&#8217;t commented on the Oli thing as the whole thing depresses me, his poor riding but also the social media horridness that follows.  I want him to regret it and change but I don&#8217;t want one of our greatest equestrian sportsman (whether you like him or not, you can&#8217;t ignore his achievements), to be brought down either.


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## popsdosh (9 May 2018)

Rowreach said:



			Trial by media, whatever the subject, absolutely sickens me 

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Exactly reminds me of lynch mobs in the good old days . They just cant accept the matter was dealt with . I fence judge a lot and what happened was not unusual and certainly not horse abuse. I have seen the winner a lot more ugly and dangerous than that on occasions even I shut my eyes a few times.


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## TGM (9 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Yes and what will happen when the 'ladies that lunch' furore dies down? Not a lot.
		
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I'm not sure that criticism of his behaviour is just limited to 'ladies that lunch'!  I have heard several old school, hunting types criticize the way he rode and the way he spoke after his XC round.  But I do agree that it will all be forgotten in a few weeks time.


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## Sandstone1 (9 May 2018)

Im sure the Bhs will be delighted to be called ladies that lunch!
Sadly I also think it will be forgotten in a few weeks and no doubt OT will go back to his old ways which is why the penalties should be much tougher.
Hes been warned for this before so clearly a warning isnt going to stop him or other riders like him.
Maybe if he loses some sponsors and it hits him in the pocket he will learn a lesson.


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## Rowreach (9 May 2018)

TGM said:



			I'm not sure that criticism of his behaviour is just limited to 'ladies that lunch'!  I have heard several old school, hunting types criticize the way he rode and the way he spoke after his XC round.  But I do agree that it will all be forgotten in a few weeks time.
		
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But by then the damage is done, isn't it?

The issue was dealt with by the Ground Jury at the time.  That is the system in place at the moment.  If people have a problem with that, then maybe lobby BE and get them to review their procedures for the future.

This bandwagoning thing is getting really out of hand.  The BHS and the statements from the sponsors seem to be appearing as a result of the trial by media that is going on.

I've lost a lot of respect for Ian Stark, whose comments on the live feed were completely different to those he offered later.

And as for the BHS, I've seen first hand the sort of practices they condone at their "BHS Approved" establishments.

I watched practically all of the XC live feed, and there were several riders who behaved in the exact same way as OT.  I don't see them receiving the same sort of vitriol on here or anywhere else for that matter.


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## WandaMare (9 May 2018)

I think in the light of the ongoing criticism he needs to do a lot more to show people he's accepted his warning and will change his ways. His apology hasn't convinced people so he needs to do something else, maybe donate part of his winnings to a welfare charity for example.

It might not be a bad thing if some of his sponsors drop out, he has proved that he needs some consequences to his behaviour before he's going to change.

I don't think it will be forgotten in a few weeks, I think the mud is going to stick unless he actively does something to stop any further reputational damage. 

This is an unusual position for an event rider which makes it more of a talking point and more memorable. 

I'm not a particular OT fan but like someone said above, we don't want to lose one of our GB best riders and competitors because of this.  I really hope this has made him question himself and accept that he has done something wrong, and then learn from it.


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## Rowreach (9 May 2018)

WandaMare said:



			I'm not a particular OT fan but like someone said above, we don't want to lose one of our GB best riders and competitors because of this.  I really hope this has made him question himself and accept that he has done something wrong, and then learn from it.
		
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I reckon it will make a lot of them think, as a lot of them do it, and possibly the sanctions from BE should be greater, but I cannot abide witch hunts.


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## scats (9 May 2018)

Rowreach said:



			I've lost a lot of respect for Ian Stark, whose comments on the live feed were completely different to those he offered later.

.
		
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In all fairness to Ian, when commentating, I think its quite difficult to really pay attention fully to the situation.  I was watching on TV and I remember one particular part that I saw Oli using the whip quite a lot and thought he was being a bit whip happy really, but I really didnt register much else.  It wasnt until afterwards that I watched it again that I actually realisesed how much he was using the whip.  I know sitting at home and sitting in the commentary box is totally different, but it might offer some explanation as to why Ians view seemed to change.


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## KautoStar1 (9 May 2018)

Rowreach said:



			But by then the damage is done, isn't it?

The issue was dealt with by the Ground Jury at the time.  That is the system in place at the moment.  If people have a problem with that, then maybe lobby BE and get them to review their procedures for the future.

This bandwagoning thing is getting really out of hand.  The BHS and the statements from the sponsors seem to be appearing as a result of the trial by media that is going on.

I've lost a lot of respect for Ian Stark, whose comments on the live feed were completely different to those he offered later.

And as for the BHS, I've seen first hand the sort of practices they condone at their "BHS Approved" establishments.

I watched practically all of the XC live feed, and there were several riders who behaved in the exact same way as OT.  I don't see them receiving the same sort of vitriol on here or anywhere else for that matter.
		
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This.  Agree 100%


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## WandaMare (9 May 2018)

Rowreach said:



			I reckon it will make a lot of them think, as a lot of them do it, and possibly the sanctions from BE should be greater, but I cannot abide witch hunts.
		
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Me too, it seems to becoming so much a part of our culture now as well. People have such hostility towards complete strangers, its quite frightening. Their reactions are completely disproportionate in many cases, its as though they want to believe the very worst in people. Quite strange really, maybe its because they are very unhappy in their own lives and this provides a channel for their aggression.

I'm surprised the statement by the BHS was so specific to an individual, I would have preferred them to say they would like to look at the Eventing rules following issues at Badminton rather than to publicly undermine another equestrian committee. I don't know how all the different organisations hang together but I would have thought if anyone was going to make a similar statement it would be British Eventing, but still its done now. I think the sponsors reaction is more likely to have an impact anyway so it will be interesting to see what happens.

I think Oli's team need to act quickly to stop any further fall out, offer more to the critics because the longer this goes on the more permanent the damage is going to be.


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## Bernster (9 May 2018)

Agree WM, there&#8217;s an odd environment now which I find disturbing. Social media can be really positive, like Art&#8217;s crowd funding, but then so mean spirited at the same time &#55357;&#56897;


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## TGM (9 May 2018)

WandaMare said:



			Their reactions are completely disproportionate in many cases, its as though they want to believe the very worst in people.
		
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I agree this is a worrying trend, that is particularly prevalent in animal based Facebook groups.  I've seen some terrible vitriolic comments spilling out from people who have absolutely no idea of the real situation at all.


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## Scarlett (9 May 2018)

The problem OT has is that it's not the first time. People have been making excuses for his behaviour for years and for me that's the problem.

Every rider/owner has made mistakes but to repeatedly do it and seemingly not learn from it shows a lack of compassion and respect for his horses IMO. Yes I'm sure he does love his horses, but when his competitiveness takes over he makes bad decisions. 

Personally I have heard some horror stories about him as a person so I will always be biased I admit, but even when trying to be objective I cant see past the fact he does stupid things and never seems genuine in his remorse.


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## WandaMare (9 May 2018)

Scarlett said:



			The problem OT has is that it's not the first time. People have been making excuses for his behaviour for years and for me that's the problem.

Every rider/owner has made mistakes but to repeatedly do it and seemingly not learn from it shows a lack of compassion and respect for his horses IMO. Yes I'm sure he does love his horses, but when his competitiveness takes over he makes bad decisions. 

Personally I have heard some horror stories about him as a person so I will always be biased I admit, but even when trying to be objective I cant see past the fact he does stupid things and never seems genuine in his remorse.
		
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What you have said is true, there's no debating he's done wrong. So where do you think he should go from here, be banned for a temporary period, be banned for life, leave eventing voluntarily, never be selected for a GB team, emigrate  ? I would be interested to know what people need to see happen now to consider that justice has been done.


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## TGM (9 May 2018)

WandaMare said:



			What you have said is true, there's no debating he's done wrong. So where do you think he should go from here, be banned for a temporary period, be banned for life, leave eventing voluntarily, never be selected for a GB team, emigrate  ? I would be interested to know what people need to see happen now to consider that justice has been done.
		
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Personally, I'd be quite happy if he lost some of his sponsorship due to this.  He has had warnings before and has still repeated the behaviour, but if his behaviour affected him financially it might have more of an impact.  I don't think a ban is appropriate and I think the ground jury made a sensible decision on the day, given that they had the opportunity at the trot-up the next day to inspect the horses carefully.  I think it was good for Jonelle to win fair and square, rather than have OT knocked out of the running by the actions of the ground jury.


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## Denbob (9 May 2018)

TGM said:



			Personally, I'd be quite happy if he lost some of his sponsorship due to this.  He has had warnings before and has still repeated the behaviour, but if his behaviour affected him financially it might have more of an impact.  I don't think a ban is appropriate and I think the ground jury made a sensible decision on the day, given that they had the opportunity at the trot-up the next day to inspect the horses carefully.  I think it was good for Jonelle to win fair and square, rather than have OT knocked out of the running by the actions of the ground jury.
		
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Absolutely agree! And I think there is talk of at least one of his sponsors backing out before WEG. As far as the keyboard warriors go some of the things being written about OT made me feel a bit ill, it's amazing the kind of vitriol that comes from watching a video of someone that they've probably never heard of until last weekend. The worst offenders are usually non-horsey as well, amazing how some people can latch onto a cause with such passion and anger without looking at the bigger picture (and ignore other offenders in their ignorance).


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## Mooseontheloose (9 May 2018)

Scarlett said:



			The problem OT has is that it's not the first time. People have been making excuses for his behaviour for years and for me that's the problem.

Every rider/owner has made mistakes but to repeatedly do it and seemingly not learn from it shows a lack of compassion and respect for his horses IMO. Yes I'm sure he does love his horses, but when his competitiveness takes over he makes bad decisions. 

Personally I have heard some horror stories about him as a person so I will always be biased I admit, but even when trying to be objective I cant see past the fact he does stupid things and never seems genuine in his remorse.
		
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I assume if you've heard 'horror stories' you've reported them to the relevant bodies -  or is this just more unverifiable rumour.
As for questioning his remorse - how do you know? All this is supposition, rumour and opinion. 
I hold no brief for OT but I really question this attitude where people 'know' something, or 'have heard' something - maybe the RSPCA should have been involved.
I'm signing off this board, this keyboard warrior stuff sickens me. If there really was worry about welfare, there was more than one person who needed hanging out to dry like OT has been.


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## TGM (9 May 2018)

Mooseontheloose said:



			I assume if you've heard 'horror stories' you've reported them to the relevant bodies -  or is this just more unverifiable rumour.
As for questioning his remorse - how do you know?
		
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How can you report 'horror stories' to the relevant bodies if you have no proof?  If someone you know very well and trust tells you that they have witnessed something horrible it is natural to believe them, but frustratingly there is nothing you can do without proof.  I have witnessed a certain event rider giving a horse a totally unacceptable beating, but I can't report him as it would be my word against his.  Two people close to me have seen him being abusive in other situations as well, but again, frustratingly, there is nothing that can be done without proof.  It is particularly frustrating as this one is much cannier than OT and does it out of view of event officials, plus is very good at posturing in front of the camera to make out he cares.  

On the other hand, I do agree, the type of rumour that comes via a long chain of various slight acquaintances can be very unreliable and very damaging, especially as the stories tend to be embellished as they pass along the chain like Chinese whispers.


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## YorkshireLady (9 May 2018)

I am struggling with this one, as I have never been a fan of OT at all. I did not like how the grey was ridden in particular. However, the big issue then was his first two statements on it and also his response after the SJ on the bay. 

He is by no means though they only rider who has or would act in this way but he is at the top of the sport and in the spotlight. I do think Ian Stark got it right in mentioning role models. I hate the trial by media aspect, but then part of me thinks that the pressure associated with the gran slam meant that the reformed character that has been on display lately, could not be maintained!


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## caladria (9 May 2018)

YorkshireLady said:



			I am struggling with this one, as I have never been a fan of OT at all. I did not like how the grey was ridden in particular. However, the big issue then was his first two statements on it and also his response after the SJ on the bay. 

He is by no means though they only rider who has or would act in this way but he is at the top of the sport and in the spotlight. I do think Ian Stark got it right in mentioning role models. I hate the trial by media aspect, but then part of me thinks that the pressure associated with the gran slam meant that the reformed character that has been on display lately, could not be maintained!
		
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Well, that's the thing isn't it? It's not so much that he did it (many do it, it probably was that $350,000 going to his head), it's that he got caught doing it, and social media picked it up, and it meant that bodies/sponsors have given up the struggle of pretending that it didn't happen. Because most of the time it can be ignored, because - unlike racing - no one pays attention to eventing except those that like eventing.

There's two appropriate responses to it, really. Either point out that lots of riders do it and mostly get away with it and say he was unlucky that he got picked up on it, leave it at that. Or point out that most of the time riders get away with it, and that maybe they shouldn't, and that perhaps the rules ought to be applied more consistently.

At the end of the day, it is a PR thing. It's a sport that gets outside interest three times yearly max (Badminton, championship, Burghley), and sporting organisations will know that would have been a great PR story for the sport (first female winner in 11 years, Townend bravely defeated in quest for Grand Slam, young Brits shine) has become an ugly one, and that's one out of three chances ruined for the year. For a sport that's struggling to push its image forward, a series of ugly stories might be very, very expensive.

It's not so much that Townend told the world that you have to win ugly to be no.1, it's that most of the people hearing it won't have seen the previous world no.1 proving that statement wrong and will be inclined to believe him!


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## YorkshireLady (9 May 2018)

Please believe me when I say that others should not get away with it either.  I would also say it is a world media thing....and it came on the back of the Kentucky issue.

Rolex I am sure are NOT happy


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## ester (9 May 2018)

I've still not really seen anything I would consider witch hunty so must be looking in the wrong places, I've seen more by way of reasoned argument and discussion about what is most important in situations like this, I also struggle with the difference between trial by media and discussion by the general public about things and events that are important to them. 

Just because a GJ do or don't do something about it on the day shouldn't mean that's it no further discussion about the situation should or needs to happen, I think it's important for the sport to know how people feel about it, there is no point in them existing in a bubble.


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## teapot (9 May 2018)

Rowreach said:



			I watched practically all of the XC live feed, and there were several riders who behaved in the exact same way as OT.  I don't see them receiving the same sort of vitriol on here or anywhere else for that matter.
		
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Others didn't receive official warnings though. The ground jury may well have seen something that wasn't seen on the red button screen - they have access to far more footage plus any referrals from stewards than the public do. They clearly saw something that warranted the warnings that others didn't receive.


Unfortunately eventing as a sport now has to play a massive PR game these days - it's hanging on in the Olympics by a thread, WEG I think is now a 3*, not a 4*, the OT debacle comes only a weekend after Marilyn Little losing sponsors at Kentucky etc. So while witch hunts don't help, raising concern about welfare, or the yellow card system is needed. The sport has to be shown moving with the times and that includes the media and social media. Whoever does the Team GBR media training was probably cringing during that interview, especially if you compare how say how Gemma T and Tina C interview. While they're personal, they're very professional too.


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## caladria (9 May 2018)

teapot said:



			Others didn't receive official warnings though. The ground jury may well have seen something that wasn't seen on the red button screen - they have access to far more footage plus any referrals from stewards than the public do. They clearly saw something that warranted the warnings that others didn't receive.


Unfortunately eventing as a sport now has to play a massive PR game these days - it's hanging on in the Olympics by a thread, WEG I think is now a 3*, not a 4*, the OT debacle comes only a weekend after Marilyn Little losing sponsors at Kentucky etc. So while witch hunts don't help, raising concern about welfare, or the yellow card system is needed. The sport has to be shown moving with the times and that includes the media and social media. Whoever does the Team GBR media training was probably cringing during that interview, especially if you compare how say how Gemma T and Tina C interview. While they're personal, they're very professional too.
		
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Hmm. Well. Did they? There's always the chance that a GJ will let something slide as "inexperience" and not officially penalise, or pay more attention to the Big Names, or pay more attention to the things that receive more social media attention.

I think as well as your point about raising concerns about welfare, the sport also has to be seen to do something when others raise concern about welfare. Whether that's education (no, that's actually fine because... let me show you this...) or actually changing.

And as well as welfare the other big thing in the sport is safety... and three of the four sanctions in 2016 and 2017 at Badminton were effectively for tired horses falling over jumps. Given that rider deaths on XC come from horse falls, then pushing tired horses on for completions (either too fast, or in some cases at all) becomes a safety thing as well (though let's not look too hard at how championships have reduced teams from four to three, and how that will encourage totally exhausted horses being nursed home when they should retire).


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## Annagain (9 May 2018)

ester said:



			yes, I guess I always think of hats, as they are so careful to show their names these days and I'd be gutted if I had to change a hat that fits  

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I remember a situation with a tennis plays (I think maybe Andre Agassi?) who got a new sponsorship deal with a racquet company and could not get on with their racquets at all. In the end the new company had to pay the old company a fortune to have their branding put on the old racquet for him to use. They forgot to write in a confidentiality clause though and the old company told everyone.


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## Scarlett (9 May 2018)

Mooseontheloose said:



			I assume if you've heard 'horror stories' you've reported them to the relevant bodies -  or is this just more unverifiable rumour.
As for questioning his remorse - how do you know? All this is supposition, rumour and opinion. 
I hold no brief for OT but I really question this attitude where people 'know' something, or 'have heard' something - maybe the RSPCA should have been involved.
I'm signing off this board, this keyboard warrior stuff sickens me. If there really was worry about welfare, there was more than one person who needed hanging out to dry like OT has been.
		
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I have no reason to question the stories as the person who told me them has no reason to have any agenda or benefit from them, and yes the authorities were involved.

I'm old and ugly enough to form an opinion on someone from the information I am given and the things I see myself. There are plenty of his ex-staff out there with stories to tell. Some may not be genuine that I admit but there's too many stories, both related to how horses were treated and things that happened to people, to dismiss it all off hand. No smoke without fire and all that.... 

I also think it's interesting that there's not the same level of 'gossip' surrounding other eventers, certainly not to that level and that gets so personal. I completely understand that everyone have favourites - I train with a 4* rider and would defend him if I had too (though I've never had too) - but this has been going on for years around OT. He lost horses before because of it before IIRC and I wouldn't be surprised if he did again.


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## fetlock (9 May 2018)

No surprise really.

Jump 4 Joy statement on Twitter an hour ago.

"We have reviewed our involvement with Oliver Townend following the incident at Badminton Horse Trials & we can confirm that we have terminated our association with this rider. We take animal welfare very seriously and are committed to the highest standards of well-being"


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## fburton (9 May 2018)

Wow! Consequences indeed...


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## popsdosh (9 May 2018)

fburton said:



			Wow! Consequences indeed...
		
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What annoys me no end is so many jumping on the bandwagon and calling for blood when 99% of them cannot tell the difference between a tired horse and one thats slacking. Do you not know thats why the ground jury took the view they did ,they were closer to the action than all the keyboard warriors and their views were born out by the horse being fresh on Sunday. 
Some of you want to be very careful making unfounded accusations as well now and you need reminding to be careful what you put otherwise I for one will start reporting some ,very reluctantly but it has become a witch hunt ,it is forums at there worst.


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## popsdosh (9 May 2018)

Scarlett said:



			I also think it's interesting that there's not the same level of 'gossip' surrounding other eventers, certainly not to that level and that gets so personal.
		
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You obviously move in a very small circle then !


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## Leonor (9 May 2018)

I cant stand faux outrage. The witch hunt has gone too far.


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## Bob notacob (9 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			What annoys me no end is so many jumping on the bandwagon and calling for blood when 99% of them cannot tell the difference between a tired horse and one thats slacking. Do you not know thats why the ground jury took the view they did ,they were closer to the action than all the keyboard warriors and their views were born out by the horse being fresh on Sunday. 
Some of you want to be very careful making unfounded accusations as well now and you need reminding to be careful what you put otherwise I for one will start reporting some ,very reluctantly but it has become a witch hunt ,it is forums at there worst.
		
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I couldnt agree more. Some times even a tired horse needs something to regain their attention.If only for the safety of the horse.


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## JJS (9 May 2018)

ester said:



			I've still not really seen anything I would consider witch hunty so must be looking in the wrong places, I've seen more by way of reasoned argument and discussion about what is most important in situations like this, I also struggle with the difference between trial by media and discussion by the general public about things and events that are important to them. 

Just because a GJ do or don't do something about it on the day shouldn't mean that's it no further discussion about the situation should or needs to happen, I think it's important for the sport to know how people feel about it, there is no point in them existing in a bubble.
		
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I absolutely agree with you. There are plenty who are very quick to label public discussion as a witch hunt when what's being said isn't in line with their own views. People are allowed to have opinions whether they've ridden at 4* or not. People are also allowed to think that there should be consequences when others behave in a certain way. There are times when change is needed in a sport, and when the best and most effective way to achieve it is by having it talked about by as many individuals as possible - at all levels. 

Do I personally think that OT needs a lifetime ban? No, not at all. Do I think that a financial incentive to behave better in future is on some level deserved? Absolutely. There are plenty who'll agree with me, and plenty who'll disagree. That doesn't mean anyone is entirely wrong or entirely right in their assessment, yet there are those who seem completely unable to accept that differing opinions can exist without being a symptom of the evils of social media.


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## popsdosh (9 May 2018)

JJS said:



			I absolutely agree with you. There are plenty who are very quick to label public discussion as a witch hunt when what's being said isn't in line with their own views. People are allowed to have opinions whether they've ridden at 4* or not. People are also allowed to think that there should be consequences when others behave in a certain way. There are times when change is needed in a sport, and when the best and most effective way to achieve it is by having it talked about by as many individuals as possible - at all levels. 

Do I personally think that OT needs a lifetime ban? No, not at all. Do I think that a financial incentive to behave better in future is on some level deserved? Absolutely. There are plenty who'll agree with me, and plenty who'll disagree. That doesn't mean anyone is entirely wrong or entirely right in their assessment, yet there are those who seem completely unable to accept that differing opinions can exist without being a symptom of the evils of social media.
		
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So why dont we do away with a ground jury of experienced riders! Who have sanctioned him !It has consequences, Why is that not good enough for you? . If its not you are questioning their judgement who saw more of it than you will have done there will have been vets who report at the finish ,do you know what they said? Doubt it ! There were people on the course who would have alerted any problems. Dont label those not with your view as not wanting to listen when you are not listening to the evidence and the fact he has been sanctioned. Im happy to go with the ground juries decision as thats what their there for.
I know lets replace the ground jury with a public phone in vote. 
The reason it has turned into a witch hunt is because of who it was, If it had been WFP,MK etc do you really think we would be here now debating it and can I remind you MK was banned for 2 months for putting her horses welfare at risk in a lot worse situation.Do you want eventing run by the internet because I dont you have to trust those who run it and police it.

So what is your take on Jump4joy removing their sponsorship . Is it a company who takes horses welfare so seriously it has taken them until weds evening to act when they could have done that on their own on sunday! The cynic in me says they have just bowed to the pressure of the internet.


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## Shooting Star (9 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			So why dont we do away with a ground jury of experienced riders! Who have sanctioned him !It has consequences, Why is that not good enough for you? . If its not you are questioning their judgement who saw more of it than you will have done there will have been vets who report at the finish ,do you know what they said? Doubt it ! There were people on the course who would have alerted any problems. Dont label those not with your view as not wanting to listen when you are not listening to the evidence and the fact he has been sanctioned. Im happy to go with the ground juries decision as thats what their there for.
I know lets replace the ground jury with a public phone in vote. 
The reason it has turned into a witch hunt is because of who it was, If it had been WFP,MK etc do you really think we would be here now debating it and can I remind you MK was banned for 2 months for putting her horses welfare at risk in a lot worse situation.Do you want eventing run by the internet because I dont you have to trust those who run it and police it.

So what is your take on Jump4joy removing their sponsorship . Is it a company who takes horses welfare so seriously it has taken them until weds evening to act when they could have done that on their own on sunday! The cynic in me says they have just bowed to the pressure of the internet.
		
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Wow, lots of anger going on there!

The ground jury have acted according to the rules of the sport and have sanctioned based on the remit of those and those alone. The media reaction as I see it is at least in part, that for the minority in the sport the rules may not be tight enough or too open to interpretation and therefore are deemed to have been exploited.

I don&#8217;t see a witch hunt here, I see a discussion around the rules. nothing more, nothing less. Quite possibly social views on acceptability of behaviour towards animals has shifted and the current rules are now rather out dated in comparison to other sports. The discussion merely aids in the natural cycle of updating those rules.


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## JJS (9 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			So why dont we do away with a ground jury of experienced riders! Who have sanctioned him !It has consequences, Why is that not good enough for you? . If its not you are questioning their judgement who saw more of it than you will have done there will have been vets who report at the finish ,do you know what they said? Doubt it ! There were people on the course who would have alerted any problems. Dont label those not with your view as not wanting to listen when you are not listening to the evidence and the fact he has been sanctioned. Im happy to go with the ground juries decision as thats what their there for.
I know lets replace the ground jury with a public phone in vote.
		
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This is exactly the sort of reaction I was talking about. If you read my response properly, you'll see that I never mentioned taking issue with the ground jury's verdict - what I actually said was that I thought losing sponsorship (i.e. a financial incentive) was fair punishment, and one that might actually make a rider like OT sit up and take notice. I never for one moment said that the public should replace the role of the ground jury. What I said was that the opinions of those speaking on public forums and social media are not incorrect just because they don't align with yours. I stand by that statement.     

I also think that the only part of 'who he is' that's influencing the witch hunt is that OT has committed the same offence before. I don't hate him, I don't think he's an animal abuser, and I certainly don't believe my assessment of him is in any way biased, but actions have consequences. If you don't want to suffer them, you don't keep making the same mistakes. I'd say the same of anyone in his position.


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## fetlock (10 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			So why dont we do away with a ground jury of experienced riders! Who have sanctioned him !It has consequences, Why is that not good enough for you? . If its not you are questioning their judgement who saw more of it than you will have done there will have been vets who report at the finish ,do you know what they said? Doubt it ! There were people on the course who would have alerted any problems. Dont label those not with your view as not wanting to listen when you are not listening to the evidence and the fact he has been sanctioned. Im happy to go with the ground juries decision as thats what their there for.
I know lets replace the ground jury with a public phone in vote. 
The reason it has turned into a witch hunt is because of who it was, If it had been WFP,MK etc do you really think we would be here now debating it and can I remind you MK was banned for 2 months for putting her horses welfare at risk in a lot worse situation.

So what is your take on Jump4joy removing their sponsorship . Is it a company who takes horses welfare so seriously it has taken them until weds evening to act when they could have done that on their own on sunday! The cynic in me says they have just bowed to the pressure of the internet.
		
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Had Fred the Shed riding in his first Badminton thrashing his horse (s) round the course in the same way I'm sure there would have been exactly the same outrage from those who witnessed it, though it may not have attracted the same mainstream media interest had it been an unknown. Behave like that at one of the world's greatest equestrian events and expect backlash, regardless of who you are. In his case, particularly as the world's no 1, expect an even greater backlash. He only has himself to blame. 

This is about Townend and "his" riding on the day. How anyone else has ridden in the past and disciplined for it- or not-  isn't relevant. It doesn't excuse or lessen the way he chose to ride those horses. It's as daft as excusing a drink driver because 1) others do it 2) others have been more over the limit, and 3) well, the car and any passengers were perfectly fine the next day so what's the harm. 

As for his sponsors or former sponsor, had they announced this on Sunday there would have been cries from some quarters that they reacted too hastily, so whether it was announced on Sunday or today criticism of their decision would no doubt have followed. Maybe Edward Goddard or Fleck will step in to sponsor him next.


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## Sandstone1 (10 May 2018)

fetlock said:



			Had Fred the Shed riding in his first Badminton thrashing his horse (s) round the course in the same way I'm sure there would have been exactly the same outrage from those who witnessed it, though it may not have attracted the same mainstream media interest had it been an unknown. Behave like that at one of the world's greatest equestrian events and expect backlash, regardless of who you are. In his case, particularly as the world's no 1, expect an even greater backlash. He only has himself to blame. 

This is about Townend and "his" riding on the day. How anyone else has ridden in the past and disciplined for it- or not-  isn't relevant. It doesn't excuse or lessen the way he chose to ride those horses. It's as daft as excusing a drink driver because 1) others do it 2) others have been more over the limit, and 3) well, the car and any passengers were perfectly fine the next day so what's the harm. 

As for his sponsors or former sponsor, had they announced this on Sunday there would have been cries from some quarters that they reacted too hastily, so whether it was announced on Sunday or today criticism of their decision would no doubt have followed. Maybe Edward Goddard or Fleck will step in to sponsor him next.
		
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I agree.    Its not the fact that it was Oliver Townend.    Any rider at whatever level should not be treating his horses like that.
The fact that OT has been warned before for the same thing makes it worse, as does the fact that he rode the same way on two different horses.
I couldnt care less if hes Joe Bloggs or Oliver Townend.   Treating a horse like thats not on.
Yes he was warned but in my opinion that didnt go far enough.
Warning him in the past clearly hasnt worked.   The rules need to be stricter and be enforced 100% in all horse sports for all riders.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (10 May 2018)

I think.he didn't particularly help himself with his comments and behaviour after the sj round especially on the bay.

It was almost like he was playing the part of the pantomime villain by gesturing at the crowd and doing the hush and 1 signs after the bays sj round. yes he may have felt he had "justified" the previous days action as it was a lovely clear round however simply giving the horse a pat and leaving the arena would have looked a lot more professional even a fist pump as it potentially lead him closer to the grand slam but he almost looked like he was winding up the crowd.

Then his comments after the xc almost came across as him potentially knowing what was coming e.g. the bay was lazy the grey was napping if he had said something like he was keeping the horses attention to prevent a fall or similar it would have looked better the most unsavoury was the series of snacks the bay got after the vv. And no I'm not anti whip and yes I can understand the need for the bonus and could have understood say if he was backing off on the approach or they had a really hairy jump.

Also after the sj round it came across as he didn't really care, yes he issued the statement and yes it was a good one but you can't help but be cynical when his proceeding comments have been like that perhaps a better explanation would have helped and perhaps as acknowledging as world number 1 he is one of the main faces of the sport so can understand how everyone will be focussed on him etc.

Reading some of his fb posts it does sound like he has some sort of social media assistant as it says OT has rather than I have. Should think he will be employing one/ getting advice from someone for the future!


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## Amymay (10 May 2018)

Another sponsor has dropped him. Jump 4 Joy.


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## ycbm (10 May 2018)

Bob notacob said:



			I couldnt agree more. Some times even a tired horse needs something to regain their attention.If only for the safety of the horse.
		
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Or you could stop if the horse is tired or doesn't want to do the job, and accept that society no longer recognises the right to  hit an animal  in order to win money?

PD I had no idea who I was watching when I turned the telly on, but I saw a rider overusing a whip on a grey horse which was nowhere near a jump and turned to my husband and said it wasn't right. I switched channels and didn't know who it was until I read this thread much later. 

 I think the almost immediate BHS statement about the inadequacy of the punishment was spot on,  and certainly not done because of the subsequent social media witch hunt. And  the loss of sponsorship from  J4J was deserved and welcome no matter what their ethical or commercial reasons are.

Regarding social media, it's a force almost entirely for the good in animal welfare. It was social comment that got racing to ban whipping racehorses who had given their all over the finish line, and caused the creation of the air cushioned whip which OT was, I think,  using. 

I think we have to accept that the rules on animal welfare have changed now that everyone has been given a voice to express their disapproval of things that are being done to animals to win money and kudos.


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## Tiddlypom (10 May 2018)

I see no witch hunt on here either. It's correct and refreshing that folk can hold different opinions on an issue, and rather tedious when some then keep whingeing and insisting that enough has been said. 

I live fairly locally to OT, and it's fair to say that even those horsey professionals who would normally back a maverick who has pulled hmself up by talent and graft are not enamoured of his attitude in general to people or horses.

It is such a shame. I saw Oli warming up for his first dressage test at Badminton this year and was telling my OH that he had been a bit of a bad lad when younger with a rep for agressive riding, but had now matured into a much more polished and sympathetic rider. Oh dear.


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## ester (10 May 2018)

I'm fairly sure we also discussed the Mary King situation when that happened, as we have many others, it really isn't personal. 

To me the calls of witch hunt get similar to the calls of clique and I rarely see either, sometimes I think it's just me seeing things oddly but I'm glad that others also don't see it this time. I don't understand why people don't want it discussed, and if they don't are they happy if the IOC pull the sport on welfare grounds?

Unlike the Marilyn Little situation where without any official sanction people were lobbying sponsors to pull out I've not seen people here say they were doing the same, it would be interesting to know if that has been the case.


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## meleeka (10 May 2018)

Are the rounds online anywhere? I missed him and would like to see for myself what all the drama is about.


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## ester (10 May 2018)

they are on the badminton website (as is all the footage) and the iplayer and these are the start times so you don't have to watch the full 6 hours  
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-start-list-2018/


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## LaurenBay (10 May 2018)

I also do not see a witch hunt. We are all entitled to our own opinions, there is no need to get so defensive about it and threatening to report peoples post for having a view that is not the same as yours. I do not care who the rider was, it is not acceptable to act like that. Yes the ground jury did not disqualify him, that is the decision that they took. It does not mean everyone has to agree with that though. 

IMO OT was not easy to watch, the Grey in particular made me feel very uncomfortable. If your Horse is that tired then pull it up and retire, not keep belting it with a whip when the Horse is trying its heart out to jump clear. Oh and I was there so did see in person (not every jump obviously) the grey did look tired and not just lacking in concentration, it was an extremely hot day and the ground was not great in places. The Horse was noticeably tired compared to the others. 

The Bay did seem like he could continue so I have no issue with that Horse. 

I really hope that this will make OT think in future.


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## meleeka (10 May 2018)

ester said:



			they are on the badminton website (as is all the footage) and the iplayer and these are the start times so you don't have to watch the full 6 hours  
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/cross-country-start-list-2018/

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Thank you Ester. Ive now watched the grey and to me it looks like a horse that should have been pulled up. For whatever reason, it didnt look as if it had enough energy to finish the course safely. (Obviously it did finish so maybe his walloping it helped, but its not fair for the welfare of the horse).


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## YorkshireLady (10 May 2018)

I dont think its a witch hunt....and in fact the only reasons we have some of that taint is due to the interviews from OT which fuelled extra fire onto it. I think there is nothing at all wrong with people saying we do not accept this behaviour. The grey was not comfortable watching.  If that had been Mark Todd, Andrew etc I would say the same.

I think many people are saddened at bad press around eventing at a time horse sports in general are under enough pressure re welfare etc. It will not take much to drop them from the Olympics.


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## Fellewell (10 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			So why dont we do away with a ground jury of experienced riders! Who have sanctioned him !It has consequences, Why is that not good enough for you? . If its not you are questioning their judgement who saw more of it than you will have done there will have been vets who report at the finish ,do you know what they said? Doubt it ! There were people on the course who would have alerted any problems. Dont label those not with your view as not wanting to listen when you are not listening to the evidence and the fact he has been sanctioned. Im happy to go with the ground juries decision as thats what their there for.
I know lets replace the ground jury with a public phone in vote. 
The reason it has turned into a witch hunt is because of who it was, If it had been WFP,MK etc do you really think we would be here now debating it and can I remind you MK was banned for 2 months for putting her horses welfare at risk in a lot worse situation.Do you want eventing run by the internet because I dont you have to trust those who run it and police it.

So what is your take on Jump4joy removing their sponsorship . Is it a company who takes horses welfare so seriously it has taken them until weds evening to act when they could have done that on their own on sunday! The cynic in me says they have just bowed to the pressure of the internet.
		
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Well said. The problem was, once it was commented on live on air there was only one way for it to go. As you say the FEI have made their decision so all this sanctimonious twaddle really should stop. Some people do 'ugly' posting really well. I had the pleasure of being at Burghley to see Oliver win on Ballaghmor Class, he was absolutely brilliant. I recently watched his run again and the same commentator was effusive about his riding, saying he was the best there is. Same horse, different day, who hasn't been there?
As for whip use, well I have had an argument on here regarding comments on MT one year, probably from another disgruntled Saturday helper. Whip use is very difficult to judge and like being a little bit pregnant, what's more uncomfortable for the horse, four smacks on the rump or one on the flank? Only the person in the saddle really knows what's going on and there were no marks on OT's horses.
One of the truly greats, Lester Piggott, should have got a knighthood for services to racing. He didn't, but I'm damn sure it wasn't because of whip use.


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## ycbm (10 May 2018)

probably from another disgruntled Saturday helper.
		
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One of the volunteers who the day couldn't run without, you mean?


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## ScottyJ (10 May 2018)

I think the answer is no but can anyone confirm - will there be videos of individual rides uploaded anywhere? On BBC there were only 2 clips of the rider I want to watch


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## fburton (10 May 2018)

popsdosh said:



			What annoys me no end is so many jumping on the bandwagon and calling for blood when 99% of them cannot tell the difference between a tired horse and one thats slacking. Do you not know thats why the ground jury took the view they did ,they were closer to the action than all the keyboard warriors and their views were born out by the horse being fresh on Sunday. 
Some of you want to be very careful making unfounded accusations as well now and you need reminding to be careful what you put otherwise I for one will start reporting some ,very reluctantly but it has become a witch hunt ,it is forums at there worst.
		
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I do wish you hadn't quoted me when you said that. You could have just written it as a new post. By quoting me, it looks like you think I am amongst those "jumping on the bandwagon" when actually there is nothing in my comment that would imply that. When you wrote "Do you not know...", did you really mean me?


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## ester (10 May 2018)

ScottyJ said:



			I think the answer is no but can anyone confirm - will there be videos of individual rides uploaded anywhere? On BBC there were only 2 clips of the rider I want to watch 

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I don't think badminton ever splits them into individual riders, I think at this point that is a good thing as the ones that do some of the individuals tend to go missing, if it's mixed in with everyone else then they not too tricky to find but impossible to take out.

I didn't understand why you got quoted either FB, your post didn't even have an opinion in it (mostly because it could have been taken either way as I read it).


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## WandaMare (10 May 2018)

Whether the punishment was harsh enough is very subjective call anyway, the ground jury probably had different views amongst themselves individually. The important thing is that he has been called out on his behaviour in a particularly high profile way, just as he was the man of the moment. He's going to be watched like a hawk now, as are many of the other riders so overall its not been a bad thing for the sport. 

I don't think there has been a witch hunt on here, just some good quality debate and sharing of opinions. However, I did have a flick through the posts on his FB page and some of them are pretty unpleasant and unnecessary and I would say more of a witch hunt on there. Some people will genuinely be posting because they care for the horses' welfare and others just enjoy pulling others down and lashing out for the sake of it.

I'm interested to see what happens next, whether Oli changes his ways. If he does then the ground jury got it just right, we shall see.


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## Sandstone1 (10 May 2018)

LaurenBay said:



			I also do not see a witch hunt. We are all entitled to our own opinions, there is no need to get so defensive about it and threatening to report peoples post for having a view that is not the same as yours. I do not care who the rider was, it is not acceptable to act like that. Yes the ground jury did not disqualify him, that is the decision that they took. It does not mean everyone has to agree with that though. 

IMO OT was not easy to watch, the Grey in particular made me feel very uncomfortable. If your Horse is that tired then pull it up and retire, not keep belting it with a whip when the Horse is trying its heart out to jump clear. Oh and I was there so did see in person (not every jump obviously) the grey did look tired and not just lacking in concentration, it was an extremely hot day and the ground was not great in places. The Horse was noticeably tired compared to the others. 

The Bay did seem like he could continue so I have no issue with that Horse. 

I really hope that this will make OT think in future.
		
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I agree with this,  There are one or two posters who seem to think that if you dont agree with them you shouldn't post.
Sorry but this is a forum for discussion.   Its good that this issue has been brought to light and talked about.
Its not about a witch hunt its about making sure that people who should know better see that their actions have consequences.


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## teapot (10 May 2018)

ester said:



			I'm fairly sure we also discussed the Mary King situation when that happened, as we have many others, it really isn't personal.
		
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Indeed, or in the depths of my memory, when Harry Meade wasn't allowed to ride his second horse at Burghley after not pulling up Dunaguer I think it was.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2018)

did he hit the bay only after the VV? Thats the only bit of that round I saw and while it didn't look justified, if the horse wasn't forward thinking at that point then I guess its one way of dealing with it.

the grey was tired -anyone who thinks the horse wasn't tired and that it was 'at it/slacking' is wrong. He had been ridden quite fast in places-should have been pulled up. OT was a bit of an arse a decade ago and he's a bit of an arse now and there are still horribly yappy dogs at Badminton. I don't much care for eventing, its not the actual sport I don't think but like a few things, it was better in the 80s.


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## LaurenBay (10 May 2018)

MotherOfChickens said:



			did he hit the bay only after the VV? Thats the only bit of that round I saw and while it didn't look justified, if the horse wasn't forward thinking at that point then I guess its one way of dealing with it.

the grey was tired -anyone who thinks the horse wasn't tired and that it was 'at it/slacking' is wrong. He had been ridden quite fast in places-should have been pulled up. OT was a bit of an arse a decade ago and he's a bit of an arse now and there are still horribly yappy dogs at Badminton. I don't much care for eventing, its not the actual sport I don't think but like a few things, it was better in the 80s.
		
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Hit the bay much more then just at the VV. Not quite as much as the grey, the Bay looked full of running to me and perhaps the whip was just to focus the Horse on the jump. He also hit a couple of times on the flat between fences. The Grey is a different story entirely and I agree with you that the Horse was tired.


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## Tiddlypom (10 May 2018)

I'm finding it a bit difficult to equate being 'a little bit pregnant' with how often or where a rider hits a horse .

But then I'm probably only in the 'Saturday helper' category so my opinion is apparently of no value. Though I have FJ'd at BE on Sundays, too. Fridays is dressage writing day .


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## Christmas Crumpet (10 May 2018)

I have not read through this entire post as I don't have time but has anyone mentioned the use of a whip in racing? Noone is jumping up and down about that and I don't think OT used his whip on either horse any more than a jockey would riding a finish. 

Those horses finish very tired, some even die of a heart attack afterwards!! Just a thought.


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## be positive (10 May 2018)

carolineb said:



			I have not read through this entire post as I don't have time but has anyone mentioned the use of a whip in racing? Noone is jumping up and down about that and I don't think OT used his whip on either horse any more than a jockey would riding a finish. 

Those horses finish very tired, some even die of a heart attack afterwards!! Just a thought.
		
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Use of a whip in racing is regulated to a set number after the final fence and any breech of the rule does mean a fine and ban for the jockey , it is fairly simple to police, the issue with OT and the GJ is that there is no definitive ruling other than no more than 3 times in one incident and no use after the final fence to go on so it does come down to opinion of what is or is not acceptable as well as what is or is not a tired horse, the rules probably need tightening up a little but will never be as easy to set or monitor as in racing.

As for OT I think it is important to remember he rode both horses in a similar way, one may have been slacking but to have both dossing on the same day does seem a bit of a convenient excuse.


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## ozpoz (10 May 2018)

..I think a tired horse needs to be pulled up if it isn't capable of continuing safely without the rider risking bringing the sport into disrepute.


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## ester (10 May 2018)

People do jump up and down about whip use in racing, which is why the rules are pretty strict including the type of stick which may or may not apply here


In racing they do put a fair amount of empahsis on giving the chance to respond and it if isn't responding then you don't keep using the stick which seems fair to me as you should only be using it to effect a change. - Which as scotty pointed out wasn't really happening with Oli's horse. 

permitted use with hand off the reins is 8 times for a jump race, 


I'm sad enough to have just counted, I have tried to include only those which one could hear a slapping sound with so not the swooshing he was doing. 

2 after the corners
3 after the escalator
2 before/going over the brush fence
1/2 going under the entrance to the main ring, one looked to be shoulder, one bum, but hand was off the reins. 

So 8/9 total on the footage,


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## Honey08 (10 May 2018)

To be fair, I don't think that the horse needed pulling up, it just didn't need pushing so much for the time.  If he'd let it come in at its own pace rather than keep pushing, he'd have got a multitude of time faults but it wouldn't have been ugly.  I'd have had so much admiration for him.  He has a good string of horses nowadays, he will quite likely have other chances at the grand slam.  He'd got carried away with his world no 1 status. Such a shame, he'd really gone up in my opinion over the last few years.  

I've never seen anything as upsetting at Burghley than Harry Meade when his tired horse fell that time, he went past us a few fences earlier and it was struggling then, but he's grown up, learned from it, and people have forgiven him.

I think Badminton and the FEI deserve a bit of this backlash too though.  I think Badmindton were also carried away by the possibility of a Rolex grand slam and two leaders on the same score.


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## WandaMare (10 May 2018)

Honey08 said:



			To
I think Badminton and the FEI deserve a bit of this backlash too though.  I think Badmindton were also carried away by the possibility of a Rolex grand slam and two leaders on the same score.
		
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I'm not sure they 'deserve' it, what have they done lol, do you mean they should have disqualified / eliminated him? Sorry, not sure what you mean..


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## Honey08 (10 May 2018)

WandaMare said:



			I'm not sure they 'deserve' it, what have they done lol, do you mean they should have disqualified / eliminated him? Sorry, not sure what you mean..
		
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Yes, I think they made a wishy washy decision, I have less respect for them too.  I think they perhaps were as blinded by the grand slam possibly happening at their event as much as Oil was.


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## Wheels (10 May 2018)

I see that one of OTs sponsors have states that they are no longer associated with him.
Interesting, I wonder if others will follow.


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## Honey08 (10 May 2018)

But from the other side, I saw one of his horse's owners on Facebook defending him and saying it needed putting to bed now.


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## VoR (14 May 2018)

EKW said:



			I don't follow much eventing, it's not my cup of tea .....

Riders can batter their horses with whips and get a slap on the wrist (racing jockeys have huge whip restrictions that are always up for debate!) ....

People can turn against their favourite riders within seconds....

A suspensory Injury deems putting to sleep. I'd be interested to know why. Bones, a completely broken down tendon or two but not a suspensory in racing.
		
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If Eventing isn't your 'Cup of tea' then toddle off elsewhere rather than a thread about eventing!

There are rules in eventing regarding use of the whip, don't forget that racing didn't always have these and plenty of very tired horses got beaten to the finish rather than pulled up, you see the same now without the use of a whip in some forms of racing.

People are 'turning on' a rider because they feel (I have sworn to the OH that I won't comment on this so will say THEY feel) he was totally out-of-order in doing what he did, it has lost him much support and some sponsors.....

As for the injury to Redpath Ransom, all injuries have degrees of severity, this one was a catastrophic injury, believe me the horse was loved by rider, owners, team and all the supporters who were devastated at his loss, if there had been any chance that he could be saved he would have been, so, as you have no knowledge of the rider, the horse, the team, the owners or the extent of the injury EKW, please take your opinions and shove them...............


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## Velcrobum (14 May 2018)

Very late to this thread but the ground jury watch the live feed and have the capacity to go back and review anything. They will have seen every riders round and have the authority to stop a rider if they feel it is not safe to continue or the horse is too tired etc etc. The feed that joe public gets even on the red button has a delay of a few seconds and is carefully controlled. Falls are shown if dramatic and if horse and rider both get up otherwise are not seen on TV only by people present at the fence or on facebook, youtube etc if someone was filming it at the time and choses to post it.
OT has apologised admits it was ugly to watch after he saw the recorded round and as others have said he has lost sponsors but is also being publicly supported by others. I saw very ugly riding at other fences on the course by other riders but this did not go out onto the red button so there is no outcry about their riding.


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## Mooseontheloose (15 May 2018)

There were much more tired horses than OT's finishing. One looked as if it could barely stand and had a cricket score the next day, but nothing said.


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## ester (15 May 2018)

So a rule change looks like it's in order. I do think that is a good thing as the more black and white they can make things the better. It will be interesting to see what they are seeking to do with the blood rule. 

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article...g-horse-welfare-are-in-the-works-for-eventing


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## Amymay (15 May 2018)

VoR said:



			If Eventing isn't your 'Cup of tea' then toddle off elsewhere rather than a thread about eventing!

........ so, as you have no knowledge of the rider, the horse, the team, the owners or the extent of the injury EKW, please take your opinions and shove them...............
		
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Well aren't you a little ray of sunshine - not.....


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## Velcrobum (15 May 2018)

amymay said:



			Well aren't you a little ray of sunshine - not.....
		
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I suspect this poster was a close connection  Redpath Ransom in response to EKW stating that suspensory injuries do not need putting down. I suspect emotions are running very high if I am correct.


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## Amymay (15 May 2018)

Velcrobum said:



			I suspect this poster was a close connection  Redpath Ransom in response to EKW stating that suspensory injuries do not need putting down. I suspect emotions are running very high if I am correct.
		
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And that in English is??


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## ester (15 May 2018)

that VoR knows Alex Bragg/the horse/the team so feels strongly about it, I didn't think it that tricky to read.

I did think it an odd thing to question why he was PTS TBH, I can't think it was done lightly/without the best advice.


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## ihatework (15 May 2018)

amymay said:



			And that in English is??
		
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A horse was put down at Badminton due to a catostrophic tendon injury, that EKW quite insensitively stated, with no knowledge of the ins and outs, that the horse could have been saved.
One would hope that given the line of work they are in, brain might have been put into gear before commenting.
I support VoR on this!


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## Amymay (15 May 2018)

ihatework said:



			A horse was put down at Badminton due to a catostrophic tendon injury, that EKW quite insensitively stated, with no knowledge of the ins and outs, that the horse could have been saved.
One would hope that given the line of work they are in, brain might have been put into gear before commenting.
I support VoR on this!
		
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I know that. I was just trying to understand their second post. Hey ho.


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## popsdosh (15 May 2018)

ihatework said:



			A horse was put down at Badminton due to a catostrophic tendon injury, that EKW quite insensitively stated, with no knowledge of the ins and outs, that the horse could have been saved.
One would hope that given the line of work they are in, brain might have been put into gear before commenting.
I support VoR on this!
		
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Yes I think the term 'those in glasshouses should not throw stones comes to mind'  These injuries happen and im sure the decision was made taking into account the well being of the horse. Its not like there is not any experience amongst the vets at Badminton.


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