# UK Laws On Hoof Trimming Under Review



## Meowy Catkin (21 July 2013)

Scary stuff. 

http://blog.easycareinc.com/blog/natural-hoof-care-in-the-uk/uk-laws-on-hoof-trimming-under-review




			In the United Kingdom, owners of barefoot horses are facing an uncertain time as it has come to light that the FRC (farriers registration council) are seeking to regulate hoof care in its entirety and are proposing a change to the current law. Currently, the FRC regulates farriers (the definition of farrier in the UK being a person trained and qualified to trim and fit a metal shoe) but currently anyone can trim their own or someone else's horse or pony. Everyone that trims is governed by the animal welfare laws within the UK, and hoof care professionals must also demonstrate they are in line with the NOS (national occupational standard) which ensures that anyone working with horses feet has a duty of care and can be prosecuted if negligent. The proposed changes appear to challenge the right of horse owners to trim or maintain their horses hooves, and seeks to regulate any professional trimmer no matter where they learned their skill.  - See more at: http://blog.easycareinc.com/blog/na...of-trimming-under-review#sthash.x5rIoLeW.dpuf

However, the National Farrier Training Agency has lost its funding from the Skills Funding Agency after an appalling Ofsted report in June this year, and the NFTA is not currently taking on new apprentices (http://www.farrierytraining.co.uk/n...se-on-the-future-of-the-delivery-of-farriery/). It should also be noted that there is currently no module in the course to cover the trim and importantly the diet and management of barefoot horses. This obviously raises the concern as to how qualified the FRC are to regulate non-farriers. 

We also have great concern that they wish to control the types of hoof protection we are allowed to use, they already deem an Easyboot Glue-On hoof boot to be a 'shoe' and hoof casts have also recently been added to the list of prohibited footwear (http://www.farrier-reg.gov.uk/information-and-resources/farriery-and-modern-materials). At present, removable hoof boots are allowed but with all the exciting developments in the world of hoof protection we feel it is important to maintain the freedom to protect our horses as we see fit. Sadly, the EasyShoe is one such new development that only a registered farrier is allowed to fit in the UK, yet the trim ideally suited to its use is clearly different from that required to fit a metal shoe!

- See more at: http://blog.easycareinc.com/blog/na...of-trimming-under-review#sthash.x5rIoLeW.dpuf

In order to keep people informed, and form a case if required to defend our right to choose how we manage our barefoot horses, we have created a Facebook group and invite anyone from any country that has an interest in barefoot in the UK or feels they could help with our cause to join The Right to Trim:  www.facebook.com/groups/TheRightToTrim. - See more at: http://blog.easycareinc.com/blog/na...of-trimming-under-review#sthash.x5rIoLeW.dpuf

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## jessieblue (22 July 2013)

OMG!!  How topical is this!  I just had a conversation with my farrier today about caring for my barefoot to be horse (Day 1 with all shoes off today)  His feet are appaling and that has been under the care of vet and farrier very closely for last 6 months due to low grade lameness, now MRI conformed collateral ligament desmitis.  Was originally diagnosed as an abscess or stone bruise!!  My farrier basically admitted he didnt have any expertise on how to look after a barefoot horse.  He told me he felt sorry for my horse as his feet were poor and he was walking on his sole!  His fronts have been off 2 weeks now after x rays.  I explained the concept of building a stronger hoof capsule and more supportive caudal hoof and digital cushion, but he said horses like mine didnt have those sort of feet, basically I was wasting my time.  My vet told me not to talk to him about shoes any more as he had told me his opinion (to shoe in heartbars and box rest).  My vet also told me to get a farrier to trim him if I was insisting to go barefoot as they were properly trained.  My farrier just confirmed he doesnt know how to care for a rehabilitating barefoot horse!  So I currently have no professional to help with my horses care.  I find it slighly worrying and very lonely although I fully understand that this is how they are trained.  I guess if horses go lame, they have to have shoes to get help and advice from vets and farriers??  Very scary.

Thanks for posting, it is very interesting.


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## amandap (22 July 2013)

Oh dear jessieblue, what a horrid situation. Perhaps your vet could recommend a farrier who has hard working barefoot horses on his books?
I commend your farrier for telling you the truth in his case rather than just carrying on.

Until all hoof professionals and vets can put their them and us egos aside, this acrimony isn't going to help horses or their owners.
It's time for fundamental change so why wont everyone embrace it and make UK the leading country in horse/hoof care?


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## Scarlett (22 July 2013)

jessieblue said:



			OMG!!  How topical is this!  I just had a conversation with my farrier today about caring for my barefoot to be horse (Day 1 with all shoes off today)  His feet are appaling and that has been under the care of vet and farrier very closely for last 6 months due to low grade lameness, now MRI conformed collateral ligament desmitis.  Was originally diagnosed as an abscess or stone bruise!!  My farrier basically admitted he didnt have any expertise on how to look after a barefoot horse.  He told me he felt sorry for my horse as his feet were poor and he was walking on his sole!  His fronts have been off 2 weeks now after x rays.  I explained the concept of building a stronger hoof capsule and more supportive caudal hoof and digital cushion, but he said horses like mine didnt have those sort of feet, basically I was wasting my time.  My vet told me not to talk to him about shoes any more as he had told me his opinion (to shoe in heartbars and box rest).  My vet also told me to get a farrier to trim him if I was insisting to go barefoot as they were properly trained.  My farrier just confirmed he doesnt know how to care for a rehabilitating barefoot horse!  So I currently have no professional to help with my horses care.  I find it slighly worrying and very lonely although I fully understand that this is how they are trained.  I guess if horses go lame, they have to have shoes to get help and advice from vets and farriers??  Very scary.

Thanks for posting, it is very interesting.
		
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Sorry, off topic but I read your post and wanted to say something - don't be lonely! There are loads of us out there that have been in similar situations - I was very lucky my vet was supportive if a little bemused - it sounds like you're trying to do the best for your horse, even if it is scarey. Well done you and good luck. Maybe you could tell us what area your in and see if anyone can recommend a trimmer, or even just a fellow barefooter who can help hold your hand?


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## jessieblue (22 July 2013)

Thank you.  I am in essex.  Very happy for any info.  I really do want to do the best for my horse, that is my only interest.


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## Micky (22 July 2013)

If a farrier is worth his salt, then he will know how to trim a barefoot horse! As it is, most people have 2 or all 4 feet shod, so some farriers maybe dont have to trim barefeet very often..


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## Pale Rider (22 July 2013)

Seems to be a lot about this on fb, The Right to Trim group.


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## SpottyTB (22 July 2013)

Would like to just add that or though there may not be any assigned module on the course for trimming.. They in fact do learn about trimming throughout the 4 years at college - it's just coincided with other areas.
  They discuss new and old methods each block and the trim is the most important aspect of foot care - whether that's a field, working or prep for a shoe trim.

As said above, if your farrier is any good he will know about a working trim (barefoot trim).. My oh offers a working or a field trim and always offers his opinion on dietary requirements..


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## Meowy Catkin (23 July 2013)

There are excellent Farriers out there - I'm not disputing that at all. In fact I have finally found a good one (they are outnumbered by terrible Farriers that shouldn't be in charge of a piss up in a brewery in my area ).

The FRC needs to get it's own house in order.

I agree that professional BF trimming needs to be properly regulated (are UKNHP and Equine Podiatrists already doing this?), but not by the FRC.

Also I believe that owners should be able to touch/file their own horses hooves.


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## amandap (23 July 2013)

Why is a "working trim" different to "a field trim"? Surely the trim and other advice given depends on the individual horse and the current health of their hooves? A trim wont make a horse with thin soles able to go anywhere for eg. 

I believe the consultation begins in earnest in the Autumn.


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## Bennions Field (23 July 2013)

i have a number of horses, one is shod (cant cope with barefoot) and the rest are trimmed all by my farrier, he's happy to trim and honestly does a great job of them, if they dont need shoes he doesnt believe in putting them on.  he also helps and guides me in trimming my two mini shetties, they are currently living away from home at friends and farrier doesnt travel that far so i go and trim every 6 weeks.  he's watched me for the last 2 years trimming them at home and is very happy with what i have done with them, he's there if they need him but he says that they are easy to manage by me so doesnt have any problems with me doing them.  

it just goes to show it so depends on your farrier, he's fairly young and keeps up to date with things.  the one thing he does disagree with is trying to keep horses barefoot when they struggle with it, some are just not meant to be ridden on roads etc without protection (my one shod horse's feet dont fit the shape of any of the hoof boots, i've tried a few !)  - 

totally agree with making sure some order / registration / training / qualifications are used to manage barefoot trimmers, but to stop it all without going to a farrier is ridiculous, lets hope they dont get their way and we keep control of what happens with our horses!  way too much interference with things !


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## YasandCrystal (23 July 2013)

jessieblue said:



			Thank you.  I am in essex.  Very happy for any info.  I really do want to do the best for my horse, that is my only interest.
		
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jessieblue may I ask where in Essex you are?


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## BethH (23 July 2013)

Hi Jessie

Firstly well done you, it's a brave thing to trust your gut and go against vet and farrier, my boy is about 14wks barefoot and doing well, I too have had the vets groan when I told them I was taking his shoes off due to poor farriery as he has had a KS op so not thought to be a good idea from the keeping him in work point of view if he has sore feet but so far he's been brilliant apart from one small episode of soreness!

I wanted to add that at my yard this is a huge topic of conversation and the yard manager's other half has just qualified as a DAEP, we are all hugely concerned as we use properly qualified trimmers and are anxious that they may not be able to practice and properly look after our horses feet in future if this all goes ahead.  I am in Kent and use a DAEP called Ashley Harwood if you want his tel no pm me or if you look at these websites and locate him on the qualified list, you may find another qualified trimmer like him who covers Essex, he is very into looking at balancing the foot correctly rather than just trimming the edges and my horse seems so much brighter in himself, I would def use a properly qualified podiatrist rather than a farrier for trimming as they seem to understand much more/ or are more aware & concerned perhaps about the changes to ligaments etc your horse undergoes as he grows his new foot and seem happy to spend the time advising on work levels & diet.  I am not against shoes, just against bad or lazy farriery and have been utterly frustrated at the lack of understanding and knowledge that most farriers seem to show when you telling them your horse isn't moving quite right!   Also, why not do a quick post asking for a recommendation, as I have had some fantastic support on here and there are a few barefooters who also use UKNHCP's which at present don't seem to cover Kent.

Try reading the following sites, I have found them very useful, good luck and I hope this helps:

http://appliedequinepodiatry.org/ 
http://www.epauk.org/


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## lachlanandmarcus (23 July 2013)

I think the FRC are simply trying to force back all the clients they have lost because they have found either a lack of farriers, Un reliable farriers, ones who never communicate about hoof health or structures or do a one size fits all trim to a barefoot horse which is only suitable as a pre shoeing pare everything job. 

To me, the answer would be to take a long hard look at training, communication skills, customer service and coverage in the UK and work with trimmers and trimming organisations rather than trying to bully and regulate them out of existence. 

There are lots of brilliant farriers out there but far too many people have walked because of the ones that are not good or not reliable or not supportive and it's outrageous that the answer to this is seen to be to ban this option. 

I don't mind trimmers trimming other peoples horses being regulated, but I don't think the farriers organisations are fit for purpose running their own affairs let alone muscling in elsewhere! And I don't think it's appropriate to ban self trimming especially in remote areas as there can be shortages of all types of farriers and trimmers in the highlands and islands and horses may be left completely untrimmed through no fault of the owner.  I would be happy for extreme/Strasser type trimming to e outlawed, but it's already an offence to cause suffering anyway.


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## BethH (23 July 2013)

Lachlan, I agree with everything you say - just for starters in my own case when I suggested to my farrier and his newly qualified apprentices that I was concerned about the foot not being balanced properly as my horse's movement was deteriorating and he had a shortening gait change and further down the line a complete inability to bend left, it was clear they didn't understand the implications of what gait change meant and told me (my horse has always had wonderful feet!) that my horse did have rather inside out feet!  I replied that they had only become inside out since they had shod him as his feet were rather good before that point!  I rest my case!  Decent training scheme required for apprentices I feel and a continuous progressive development program would help keep them up to speed!


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## jessieblue (23 July 2013)

Hi Yas and crystal, I am in south woodham ferrers, horses live near maldon.


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## amandap (23 July 2013)

The text of the "position statement" in the News on the EPA link put up by BethH is well worth reading.


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## TwoStroke (24 July 2013)

Does anyone else find it interesting that the FRC has chosen to pursue this now, so soon after they had their training funding slashed? Seems to me that they're just trying to recoup their financial loses which arose as a result of the disastrous ofsted report.


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## MerrySherryRider (24 July 2013)

I'd like to see a standardised training programme. Full time apprenticeship that all hoof care professionals begin training with. After that they could specialise in whatever they chose, shoeing or the different trimming organisations. 
 At the moment the only option is to use a farrier or take a risk with a trimmer who has done a part time course and has limited experience. 
My horses are unshod, I prefer to keep them that way but if trimmers had a training that was standardised, full time and examined by a national board, I'd probably use the trimmer.

There does need to be regulation to prevent anyone being able to trim a horse's hoof regardless of competence. A friend has just taken on a horse absolutely crippled by a previous owner who did her own trimming. Something needs to be done to stop idiots causing such pain.


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## amandap (24 July 2013)

horserider said:



			At the moment the only option is to use a farrier or take a risk with a trimmer who has done a part time course and has limited experience.
		
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Some assumptions there and I suggest you read the "position statement" on the EPA home page. www.epauk.org/Options_for_Regulation_v1.0.doc



horserider said:



			Something needs to be done to stop idiots causing such pain.
		
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Couldn't agree more and that includes all professionals and owners.


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## TwoStroke (24 July 2013)

horserider said:



			There does need to be regulation to prevent anyone being able to trim a horse's hoof regardless of competence. A friend has just taken on a horse absolutely crippled by a previous owner who did her own trimming. Something needs to be done to stop idiots causing such pain.
		
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Easily said, but I have a horse which cannot cope with being trimmed on a 6-8 weekly basis. He needs little and often, so I give a little trim once a week. To have a trimmer do that would cost me £173 per month. The horse is sound and happy with me trimming him. If the owner you mentioned is damaging her horse, surely she is culpable under animal welfare legislation?? Why do owner-trimmers with sound horses have to pay the price for garden variety imbeciles like her?


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## MerrySherryRider (24 July 2013)

TwoStroke said:



			Easily said, but I have a horse which cannot cope with being trimmed on a 6-8 weekly basis. He needs little and often, so I give a little trim once a week. To have a trimmer do that would cost me £173 per month. The horse is sound and happy with me trimming him. If the owner you mentioned is damaging her horse, surely she is culpable under animal welfare legislation?? Why do owner-trimmers with sound horses have to pay the price for garden variety imbeciles like her?
		
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There's a difference between maintaining  trim and having total responsibility. There are too many idiots like her.

Its a bit like using a vet. The vet assesses and prescribes treatment and oversees the condition while the owner does daily maintenance. 

Surely, it would be acceptable for a professional to over see hoof care every 3-4 months if there was no problem. 

PS. Why would it cost £173 p/m ? How much does a trim cost ? I pay £20 a trim.


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## MerrySherryRider (24 July 2013)

amandap said:



			Some assumptions there and I suggest you read the "position statement" on the EPA home page. www.epauk.org/Options_for_Regulation_v1.0.doc




Couldn't agree more and that includes all professionals and owners.
		
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Yes, should probably read the stuff but just drawing on personal experience of trimmers I know. Hence using Farriers. I would love to use a trimmer if they sorted the training out and as farrier's very good, have no reason to change really.

Agree that there are bad professionals both in trimming and farriery. Heck, modern training is so dire, I can't even find a decent hairdresser these days. What are these money making training courses teaching students ?

And, yes, some owners do a good job but that doesn't save the horses being lamed by idiot owners.


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## TwoStroke (24 July 2013)

horserider said:



			There's a difference between maintaining  trim and having total responsibility. There are too many idiots like her.

Its a bit like using a vet. The vet assesses and prescribes treatment and oversees the condition while the owner does daily maintenance. 

Surely, it would be acceptable for a professional to over see hoof care every 3-4 months if there was no problem. 

PS. Why would it cost £173 p/m ? How much does a trim cost ? I pay £20 a trim.
		
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My trimmer charges £40 per trim. If a farrier was willing to look and never touch that would be fine, but I find professionals tend to get itchy fingers, and want to do things like remove supportive flare and bevel through the white line. If legislation is passed, should my trimmer/farrier decide that their intervention was required, I'd be obliged to allow them to lame my horse.


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## Meowy Catkin (24 July 2013)

TwoStroke said:



			My trimmer charges £40 per trim. If a farrier was willing to look and never touch that would be fine, but I find professionals tend to get itchy fingers, and want to do things like remove supportive flare and bevel through the white line. If legislation is passed, should my trimmer/farrier decide that their intervention was required, I'd be obliged to allow them to lame my horse.

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That would be a ridiculous situation. 

Surely the owner trimmers who cripple their horses are breaking the welfare act? Why ban all owner trimming because of a few idiots? Also how many horses are lame or sore after professionals have done them? Nail prick, nail bind, radical trims or just a bit too much taken off etc...

Don't forget the the Farrier who cut the shoes off two horses (two weeks apart IIRC) and crippled both as a revenge on their owner only got three months suspension.

Here's the link. http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co...tory-16161621-detail/story.html#axzz2UPYRYm69

I just don't believe that horse welfare is at the top of the FRC's agenda.


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## MerrySherryRider (24 July 2013)

TwoStroke said:



			My trimmer charges £40 per trim. If a farrier was willing to look and never touch that would be fine, but I find professionals tend to get itchy fingers, and want to do things like remove supportive flare and bevel through the white line. If legislation is passed, should my trimmer/farrier decide that their intervention was required, I'd be obliged to allow them to lame my horse.
		
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Don't know what area you're in, but surely you have some good farriers locally ? However, I do have to say, that in my old county we were spoilt for exceptional farriers. The county I moved to last year seems to be very different on all aspects of horse care and I'm currently on my 3rd farrier in a year. I don't accept anything other than the best where feet are concerned, it's just too important.
 Still looking for a good EDT but that's another story.


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## florayG (24 July 2013)

I think, like everything else, those who are responsible will be affected by this (if it happens) and those who are not responsible will just keep doing what they are doing now. I trim my own horses but under the direction of a very good barefoot trimmer who comes every 10 -12 weeks. I trim a few days before her visit and would be very pleased to pay her the full amount (£40) if she says she needs to do nothing! (that hasn't QUITE happened yet, but she does less every visit!)
I don't know of a farrier in my area to whom I would entrust my horses feet. They seem to do what the client wants as long as the client doesn't want anything too difficult and all the ones I know deny that there is any difference between the 'paddock trim' they provide and the 'performance trim' my barefoot trimmer provides.
Farriers used to be excellent (I'm going back 20 years or more now). I used to have a farrier that had won an apprentice medal at the Royal Welsh in the 1940's and still made all the shoes himself, especially for your horse, the evening before he came to shoe. He was still shoeing in his seventies. All gone now...


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## TwoStroke (24 July 2013)

horserider said:



			Don't know what area you're in, but surely you have some good farriers locally ? However, I do have to say, that in my old county we were spoilt for exceptional farriers. The county I moved to last year seems to be very different on all aspects of horse care and I'm currently on my 3rd farrier in a year. I don't accept anything other than the best where feet are concerned, it's just too important.
 Still looking for a good EDT but that's another story.
		
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After spending upwards of a month trying to get one of the decent farriers round here just to call me back, I gave it up as a bad job. I don't see the point in expending so much effort to secure the services of someone who I will essentially be paying to do exactly as I say (and therefore, exactly as I can do myself). I only use my trimmer for one of my horses because I'm hopeless at letting people go . Oh... and because trimming is really hard work and his feet are big and seriously tough! 

Don't get me started on saddle fitters...


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## Goldenstar (24 July 2013)

horserider said:



			I'd like to see a standardised training programme. Full time apprenticeship that all hoof care professionals begin training with. After that they could specialise in whatever they chose, shoeing or the different trimming organisations. 
 At the moment the only option is to use a farrier or take a risk with a trimmer who has done a part time course and has limited experience. 
My horses are unshod, I prefer to keep them that way but if trimmers had a training that was standardised, full time and examined by a national board, I'd probably use the trimmer.

There does need to be regulation to prevent anyone being able to trim a horse's hoof regardless of competence. A friend has just taken on a horse absolutely crippled by a previous owner who did her own trimming. Something needs to be done to stop idiots causing such pain.
		
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No there seriously does not I take responsiblity for my horse care I don't need the state to stick its oar in.
Farriers are regulated and laming horses all the time so regulation is clearly not the answer.
If want to trim my own horses feet I will I want the right to choose the professional I pay to do it in my case not a farrier.
I certainly do not want to pay someone who has a fiancial interest in shoeing to advise on trimming.
Owner damage their own horses all the time bad saddles Inapporiate work and diet, turn out in unsuitable field the horses feet are no different.


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## dogatemysalad (24 July 2013)

I've heard the term performance trim and paddock trim, but don't know what the difference is -and do the self trimming owners know the difference or do they just do DIY jobs to save money. 

On forums there are lots of owners who are well informed, but in RL, they seem to be a rarity.




 I haven't come across anyone using a trimmer around here, but many do trim their own horses and its probably better to do a DIY trim, than  to save money by leaving shoes on too long, but I do see people doing their horses feet who I wouldn't trust to hold a dandy brush let alone a rasp. 

I doubt the farrier who does my horses knows about the term performance trim, but he certainly keeps them sound and in full work. 

I wouldn't like to stop DIY trimming but something should be done to stop the All The Gear, No Idea owners. Unfortunately, most legislation comes about because of a stupid minority and we all pay the price for their behaviour.

Better to reach a compromise before legislation becomes too heavy handed.


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## amandap (24 July 2013)

There does appear to be a difference between farrier paddock trims and barefoot trims. The main one being how the base of the wall is dressed/trimmed. I don't hold with performance trim myself as performance comes with hoof health and work built up at the horses pace. I don't believe you can trim in any way whatsoever to make a horse perform. lol You can trim to make a horse sore or less capable though. You can trim, add shoes and pads to change gait as well, but is this always desirable for the horse, especially in the long term?

Farriers who moan about trimmers I am sure also moan as vehemently about non registered/trained farriers and farriers who cause deliberate harm such as the case above. lol


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## 4x4 (25 July 2013)

Hi, I saw a reference to minerals and vitamins on another post about barefoot.  I have a 6 y o who has never had shoes on and am trying to keep this so.  Currently we are only hacking on a bit of tarmac and a bit of schooling on grass, only being ridden 2/3 times per week.  Farrier just trims the flarey bits.  Is there anything else I should be doing? He also has bad skin/sweetitch issues so does get linseed/brewers yeast and as least sugar as possible except of course it is in the grass!  Anything I should ask/look for in the trim? Not sure I coudl do it myself he leans and is heavy and I have a bad back!!


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## MerrySherryRider (25 July 2013)

amandap said:



			There does appear to be a difference between farrier paddock trims and barefoot trims. The main one being how the base of the wall is dressed/trimmed. I don't hold with performance trim myself as performance comes with hoof health and work built up at the horses pace. I don't believe you can trim in any way whatsoever to make a horse perform. lol You can trim to make a horse sore or less capable though. You can trim, add shoes and pads to change gait as well, but is this always desirable for the horse, especially in the long term?

Farriers who moan about trimmers I am sure also moan as vehemently about non registered/trained farriers and farriers who cause deliberate harm such as the case above. lol
		
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Agree with this. I've cut back on exercise during the heatwave and fly epidemic for the past 3 weeks. Crikey, their feet are obviously a reflection of the work they do.


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## criso (25 July 2013)

horserider said:



			There does need to be regulation to prevent anyone being able to trim a horse's hoof regardless of competence. A friend has just taken on a horse absolutely crippled by a previous owner who did her own trimming. Something needs to be done to stop idiots causing such pain.
		
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Yes regulation would be helpful but not by the FRC.

As someone who has had my horses lamed by 4 farriers and kept sound by 2 trimmers (uknhcp) then if you tell me I can't use a trimmer then I am not going to use a farrier but would rely on the horses self trimming and tidying myself.

The idiots who caused the pain in our case were fully qualified farriers, at least 2 fancied themselves barefoot experts but left a horse non weight bearing and bleeding.

Often when a farrier comes to the yard I have a little chat to sound them out a bit about opinions re barefoot and their approach, it's always useful to have a back up plan in case my trimmer is not available but I  have yet to find one that fills me with confidence.


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## Meowy Catkin (25 July 2013)

4x4 said:



			Hi, I saw a reference to minerals and vitamins on another post about barefoot.  I have a 6 y o who has never had shoes on and am trying to keep this so.  Currently we are only hacking on a bit of tarmac and a bit of schooling on grass, only being ridden 2/3 times per week.  Farrier just trims the flarey bits.  Is there anything else I should be doing? He also has bad skin/sweetitch issues so does get linseed/brewers yeast and as least sugar as possible except of course it is in the grass!  Anything I should ask/look for in the trim? Not sure I coudl do it myself he leans and is heavy and I have a bad back!!
		
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If you PM Oberon, she has a help sheet RE feeding that she could send you.


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## MerrySherryRider (25 July 2013)

I think I've been lucky in the farriers I've had have been very happy to keep shoes off. My current farrier when meeting the horses for the first time, insisted on watching them trot up before and after trimming. When we discussed the WB's conformation, his attitude was that she was best finding her own balance and wouldn't be hacking away at her frog. 

The main issue I've noticed, is that some farriers will do excellent work with some horses, but just don't click with another. Matching the professional to the individual horse can make quite a difference. 

I wouldn't accept a trimmer who wasn't properly trained and at the moment the private companies offering trimming courses just aren't acceptable. Legislation has to be improved to get rid of the hobbyist weekend BF trimmers charging silly amounts of money and the owners who lame their horses. 

 The way forward is improve training for both farriers and trimmers. 
 Make it a legal requirement that all horses must be registered with a recognised hoof care professional who oversees hoof care on a regular basis, which wouldn't prevent owners trimming but would be a safe guard against the deluded 'experts' who haven't a clue.

I'd equally like owners to be beaten with a wet fish if they put shoes on an unbacked horse or a healthy, but rarely ridden horse. 
Why do they do that ?


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## criso (25 July 2013)

TwoStroke said:



			After spending upwards of a month trying to get one of the decent farriers round here just to call me back, I gave it up as a bad job.
		
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Forgot to add, farriers won't come out to trim just one horse as it's "not worth their while".  You have to wait till they are shoeing a horse on the yard at the same time.

If like me you're on a private yard with no shod horses, you could be waiting a while.


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## Meowy Catkin (25 July 2013)

Make it a legal requirement that all horses must be registered with a recognised hoof care professional who oversees hoof care on a regular basis, which wouldn't prevent owners trimming but would be a safe guard against the deluded 'experts' who haven't a clue.
		
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Now I do use a registered hoof care professional but no, I would not want it to be a legal requirement of owning a horse to do as you suggest. What an awful idea.

You have been very lucky with your Farrier, sadly many people don't have good Farriers or good Trimmers in their area and you need to take these people into account too.


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## MerrySherryRider (25 July 2013)

Faracat said:



			Now I do use a registered hoof care professional but no, I would not want it to be a legal requirement of owning a horse to do as you suggest. What an awful idea.

You have been very lucky with your Farrier, sadly many people don't have good Farriers or good Trimmers in their area and you need to take these people into account too.
		
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Not just one farrier. Farriers, over many years and areas. Not everyone equal, but always able to have a choice of good ones. 

I can imagine there are areas where farriers are few and far between but in mainland Uk, surely its not impossible ?

 How do you find a good BF trimmer when there aren't that many and not all are good. 

How do you protect horses from self trimming owners who haven't a clue but insist on trimming and laming ? No one has suggested a way to protect these horses. Why is protection for them an awful idea ?


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## TPO (25 July 2013)

This honestly scares the bejeezus out of me!

I've not yet met a farrier who is supportive of barefoot in my area. Last farrier started an arguement with me about it and showed how non-existant their knowledge of hooves actually was. 

Looking at the shod feet that I see regularly there is no way I'd let those farriers near my horse with any sort of implement. Yet because they are registered farriers it is ok for them to butcher & deform hooves alongside laming horses.

There are now only 3 trimmers in my area; 2 I found to be highly ineffective and unable to answer any queries and one lamed my horse...twice, because I'm an idiot who gave her another chance believing what she said about it being my horse and his failings. Lesson learnt.

I'm trimming mine myself and just pulled the shoes offf mum's horse (after above farrier made a hatchet job) and have taken him barefoot. Neither horse has had a lame step with me trimming which is more than can be said after farrier/trimmer visits.

I'd happily use a trimmer that was up to the job but sadly the only one that appeared to be no longer travels. As everything is going well and I'm constantly doing all I can to increase my knowledge of all things hoof related I'd honestly be reluctant to go back to paying £40-60 for someone else to do what I'm doing already.

I may be slightly different as I've shod horses before (not a farrier but it was the done thing in the outback) and am EBW trained alongside saddle fitting so I have general awareness of a few areas (but the more I learn the more I realise how little I know and how far there is still to go!).

There is no way I'd let any local farrier back near my horses and the idea that it could be forced upon us really frightens me. I do hope that, for once, common sense will prevail.

Jessieblue - I've been (and still am!) where you are. My (now ex) vet practice told me that TB's, especially mine, can't be BF and that their frogs should be lifted off the ground (?) alongside other beauts like that. The trimmer that lamed him told me that he could only be a BF field ornament. The last farrier said I was cruel and that TBs have the feet bred out of them so need shoes.

Horses says he's never been better. Thicker, concave sole with big frogs and the underrun heel caused by farriers/shoeing has almost completely rectified. He's striding out over all surfaces (although mainly for my OCD paranoia I hack with front boots for longer rides) and is much better in himself.

It's horrible, scary and hard feeling so abandoned and alone; especially when it's drilled into us to trust in and believe the "experts". The only thing that kept me going was that, to me, I knew this BF malarky made perfect sense. Suddenly shoeing seemed a ridiculous concept.

Just read as much as you can and listen to your horse. Good luck and best wishes


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## criso (25 July 2013)

horserider said:



			I can imagine there are areas where farriers are few and far between but in mainland Uk, surely its not impossible ?

 How do you find a good BF trimmer when there aren't that many and not all are good.
		
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Lots of farriers round here, Herts is hardly the back of beyond and they are  probably fine for the straightforward simple cases, but not for the dietarily challenged, the sensitive or for horse who do better if the foot isn't trimmed to a text book shape. 

How did I find a trimmer, asking for personnel recommendations from people who have barefoot horses in hard work.  The UKNHCP training focus on diet puts them ahead of farriers in some ways and if you get the foundations of diet right then the trimming really is not that important but that is only a starting point.   So asking questions, watching what they do, watching how the horse responds, are they better, worse, the same after a trim and not being afraid to step in and ask them to stop.

Mind I asked a farrier once not to trim so much off the frog as it would make the horse sore, he laughed at me, went ahead and lamed my the horse.

One good thing which you have said your farrier does is watching the horse move.  Not round here, I've lost count of the times I dragged a horse up and down in front of a farrier who was more interested in drinking his tea and staring at the ym's cleavage that watching a horse move.  

The problem then is if the horse is sore after being shod/trimmed, you have no baseline to say how it was before.

These are very highly qualified remedial farriers too, some older, some younger.  There are not anti barefoot per se but as TPO says holding  on to some old fashioned ideas.


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## Meowy Catkin (25 July 2013)

Horserider your heart is in the right place, but the idiotic and cruel will still hurt their horses, the people you will punish with the legislation are not the people you are targeting, but the people who really are doing the best for their horses but have been let down by the traditional avenues of hoof care. TPO is the perfect example of this.




			There is no way I'd let any local farrier back near my horses and the idea that it could be forced upon us really frightens me. I do hope that, for once, common sense will prevail.
		
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What we need is simple, general, enforceable laws EG letting an animal suffer is against the law (and actually prosecute people who break it more than currently happens), not hundreds little bitty laws that slowly gnaw away at freedom of choice. The vast majority of horse owners want the best for their horses and don't want to cause any pain and will do all in their power to prevent it.


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## MerrySherryRider (25 July 2013)

I'd be the first to agree that some farriers are from the land that time forgot, but I can only speak from my experience and many times I've had a straight speaking farrier who I thought would bite my head off if I offered an opinion or question. To my relief, unfailingly, they've been so genuine in wanting to explain their thinking and pleased to talk to an owner who saw hoof care as essential and skillful. 

I get a little bit cross when people say they cannot find a farrier or that a farrier made their horse bleed, etc . Why would anyone stand by and watch a procedure that was detrimental without saying anything ? 

The slating of farriers as incompetent and more interested in making money at the expense of the horse isn't something I've experienced very often.

But I have seen farriers shoeing horses because owners wanted it. I've also regularly seen farriers shoeing/trimming without owners being present or having any dialogue with the farrier except to leave a cheque.

Its a two way deal. If owners want good farriery, they need to have a working relationship with the farrier, not just leave the horse in a stable and run.


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## florayG (25 July 2013)

horserider said:



			. 

I'd equally like owners to be beaten with a wet fish if they put shoes on an unbacked horse or a healthy, but rarely ridden horse. 
Why do they do that ?
		
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Because everyone else on their yard does it, I think . I have several friends who shoe a horse they ride once a week and would not countenance going barefoot because it's 'not the done thing' on a lot of yards. They tell me they have to do more roadwork than I do ha ha I do more roadwork every DAY than they do in a week.


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## criso (25 July 2013)

horserider said:



			I get a little bit cross when people say they cannot find a farrier or that a farrier made their horse bleed, etc  Why would anyone stand by and watch a procedure that was detrimental without saying anything ?
		
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In that instance I didn't see the bleeding until after the foot was put down, you would have to predict where the knife was going before it went in to actually prevent it.  If it's more subtle and a case of trimming back too far, you don't see it till you walk the horse up after.
Anyway they are physically much bigger and stronger than me and so I can ask them not to do something but I cannot stop them.


All I can do is vote with my feet and my money and use someone who doesn't lame my horse and even that is tricky as you are supposed to get your current farriers permission to switch.  If you ask someone to shoe or trim your horse, the first thing they will ask is who is currently doing it  and have you asked them if you can move to a different farrier.

I was very naughty and didn't as I had moved yards and thought I had moved out of the catchment area but farrier A bumped into farrier B on another yard and threatened him for 'stealing' one of his clients.
It crazy round here and I wouldn't believe half of it had I not had direct experience.


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## Lara Sportelli (21 December 2014)

Hi, i am a barefoot hoof trimmer only, trained for 3 years by the vet. Farriers are trained to put shoes on, barefoot trimmers should do extensive training about the whole horse, diet, movement, pathology, shape of trim,balance, physiology and anatomy and bio-mechanics. There is a lot of training behind a barefoot trim and we studied the barefoot hoof in-depth, after all horses are not born with metal on their feet and are mostly born with perfect feet. You are right when you talk about the hoof capsule. The most terrible feet i see on my travels are shod or badly trimmed, long feet, cracked, underslung, seedy toe etc. Once a horse has its shoes removed it can take a minimum of 18 months to transition, with possible abcesses along the way, that should not be hacked out. You must also take into account diet and movement. A good barefoot transition hoofboot will help for the ouchy moments, concrete is very good hooves, you need a good barefoot hoof trimmer and patience. Good luck with your journey. When i bought my horse he had back shoes on front feet, putty, splits etc, the shoes came off and bad trims led me into proper training and i ride my horse over all terrain, barefoot and have never looked back. It always still surprises me when people see my horses and say nice feet. At the end of the day the saying goes no hoof no horse anc so is true. Dont give up, stick with it and find a good baefoot hoof trimmer. Good luck with your journey, lara. I would also like to add that trim is very important. We look at each hoof individually and do not do a bog standard trim to every hoof. We take in to account how the hoof wants to be and trim each hoof accordingly, one hoof may have a flare, another a split and so on, so it would not be ok to trim each hoof the same. We only do what each hoof requires, barefoot trimming is an art and I am extremely proud of my work. I hope this has helped you.


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## Goldenstar (21 December 2014)

I think we need a framework for training trimmers , trimmers do not need to be farriers,  farriers ought to understand the BF process some do most don't .
FRC is a organisation that works to protect farriers  it is a closed shop nothing more nothing less I have no time for it what so ever , as owners we to beware of how they will attempt to drive this process .
I have learnt to rasp my own horses feet no ones going to stop me doing that ,it is better for the horses to have little and often while working BF .
We need to beware regulation that adversely effects the responsible as it trying to control the irresponsible .
And we need to guard against the FRC using this to stop the increasing interest in the BF way of keeping horses and rehabing when lame it's in it's  interests to do this ,it is not in ours or our horses.


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## Kelpie (22 December 2014)

I wonder if a lot of owner-trimmers might fortuitously find that their horses start to self trim to a much higher degree, should the FRC start to regulate all trimming?? 

That said, I think my farrier does a good job with my BF horses (not that he needs to see them very often, as actually they do self trim well), though I realise good BF friendly farriers are hard to come by....


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## LittleBlackMule (22 December 2014)

Kelpie said:



			I wonder if a lot of owner-trimmers might fortuitously find that their horses start to self trim to a much higher degree, should the FRC start to regulate all trimming??
		
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This^^ Mine will certainly start doing so much 'roadwork' that trimming by a farrier is not necessary...

Anyway, while they might succeed in making it an offence for owners to trim their own horses, I sincerely doubt that they will be able to ban qualified trimmers and force people to use only farriers - there would be too many livelihoods at stake and that would certainly be a consideration when approving any legislation. 
The more likely outcome is some sort of umbrella regulation that all trimmers must adhere to, so there would still be the option to use a trimmer than a farrier.


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## Orangehorse (22 December 2014)

I thought that this was being sorted by the reputable trimmers, the ones who have training schemes and examinations and their trimmers have insurance etc.  Or has it been scuppered by the farriers council?

I think farriers who are very old (retiring) or the very young (who have heard and seen barefoot working horses) are far more receptive to the idea than the mid career farrier who qualified 20 years ago and "knows" that all working horses need shoes and you don't want some crazy horse owner who has been on a weekend course to trim a horse's foot.  The same with vets to some extent.  Some still don't believe it is right or possible that a horse can do hard work without shoes.


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## twiggy2 (22 December 2014)

jessieblue said:



			Hi Yas and crystal, I am in south woodham ferrers, horses live near maldon.
		
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you are right on my doorstep,my horse has never had shoes-my farrier is happy with that (he does not often have space for new clients though), a few on my yard use a barefoot trimmer who i am told is a qualified farrier in a previous working life-PM if you would like details


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## Goldenstar (22 December 2014)

LittleBlackMule said:



			This^^ Mine will certainly start doing so much 'roadwork' that trimming by a farrier is not necessary...

Anyway, while they might succeed in making it an offence for owners to trim their own horses, I sincerely doubt that they will be able to ban qualified trimmers and force people to use only farriers - there would be too many livelihoods at stake and that would certainly be a consideration when approving any legislation. 
The more likely outcome is some sort of umbrella regulation that all trimmers must adhere to, so there would still be the option to use a trimmer than a farrier.
		
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They might succeed in making it an offence how they would catch us is another matter as I have no intention of stopping.
However I think in all situations you have prove widespread harm before banning something and I doubt owners trimming will reach the that bar ,if the consultation process is sensibly handled and all the aruments are well made we should be ok.
Trimmers need to get their act together with an end to squabbling between the different types of training and go into the process with a united front and a professional plan to take forward.


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## LittleBlackMule (22 December 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			Trimmers need to get their act together with an end to squabbling between the different types of training and go into the process with a united front and a professional plan to take forward.
		
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Totally.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (22 December 2014)

All horses are born barefoot .......... I just do not undersand why anyone who has had 5 years training does not understand the basics. i have always had good to world class farriers, there are plenty of them out there .......... [wanders off]..........
as to the FRC .......... well I gave up on them several years ago after they allowed a convicted farrier to continue to practice after a cruelty case, 
http://hoofcare.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/british-farrier-banned-for-90-days-for.html
 but then the RCVS did a similar thing [James Maine].................


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## Red-1 (22 December 2014)

Gosh, this frightens me too. 

I have a great farrier, and I am very lucky that he is happy for me to trim myself, having shown me what to do, and I keep him in the loop with photos every so often, and a visit if either of us is worried.

I trim mine every week, and I believe this is the best way. Not that I do a lot each trim, as we do regular roadwork it is just rounding off and making sure they are balanced. I would prefer to keep this going, feel that I am doing the best for my horse, and do not appreciate nanny state interfering.

I believe negligent owners will always be negligent, ignorance will always be widespread, and the people that this will affect will not be those who it is targeted at. As a generalisation, obviously ;-)


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## JillA (22 December 2014)

Too many farriers have egos the size of, well, the FRC - the one I used to use is relatively young, was apprenticed to the very best one in our area. Problem is he thinks he knows it all, has nothing to learn and that I as a mere owner had nothing of any use to contribute. I had had my horses on  a good BF diet for years, so there was nothing there to explain why my horse was just barely sound most of the time. 
Time after time, despite my horse having thin sensitive soles, he persisted in trimming the soles. He couldn't or wouldn't tell me why, just that that was what had to be done, and every time he trimmed, my horse went ouchy across the stones of the yard. He doesn't now - I haven't used him for many months, and did my homework. I followed what I suspected to be the case, trimmed NOTHING but the excess wall (farrier referred to that as the bearing surface :0 ) and had a good recommended trimmer (sans ego!!) check a couple of times that I was on the right lines and now said horse doesn't even feel the stones.
FRC sends out totally the wrong message "We are right and you are all wrong" and it percolates through to those who are registered under their system. I totally agree, all the trimmer "schools" need to get together and lobby for recognition based on the excellent results they have produced over many years.


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## Graeme Burt farrier (25 December 2014)

Firstly, Christmas greetings - this is the first day off I have had in a number and while I wait for people to get organised and Christmas dinner to be cooked I decided to visit the forum and have a read, the first time I have had opportunity for many weeks.

JillA - I am sorry that the only experience you have had of farriers is egotistical. I can only counter that by saying that we are all different - personally, I always believe that there is a little you can learn every day, and at 58 I still find there are questions to be answered and there are little things that can still be learned. I do believe that there are many professional people with such attitudes though, and I am sure all of us have met with doctors, lawyers and almost certainly bankers with this attitude. Thats no excuse - but I always try to make sure that I deal with clients and their horses on as professional a basis as I can.

Having said that, it always surprises me that clients can expect the very highest of standards and provide the worst conditions imaginable, and also criticise the prices that charged to attain the results they desire. I have had people expect me to shoe horses to a high standard while standing in a field in six inches of wet gloopy mud in the pouring rain while all of the horse's field companions disappear into their stables - and then gawp at a sixty pound charge for the privilege. I have also had people bring me horses with feet covered in sticky gloopy mud to the point where you cant even see the legs and the feet, let alone the clenches. Maybe they would go to the dentist with a mouthful of toffee, but somehow I doubt it.  Many people here have complained that they cant get hold of a farrier or that he does not turn up - but this year many times I have turned up for regular appointments to find that the people simply have not bothered to remember, or worse still they have had it shod by another cheaper farrier and not even bothered to call me and let me know, or that they have simply moved to another yard and not bothered to tell me. 
This despite the fact (or maybe even because of it) that I guarantee soundness and all shoes are guaranteed against loss free of charge for 6 weeks, and my appointment times are guaranteed within 1 hour either way or call me.
It works both ways - but with the very important difference that this is my livelihood and that of my family. 

As far as barefoot is concerned, I have maybe 60% of all the horses on the round barefoot, with maybe another 15% shod only in front, and the remainder with full sets. I will only shoe if I feel it is necessary, but you cannot be right all of the time, and especially if the owner does not tell you how much the horse is going to work (if they are not there and relying on y/o  to get the horse out and tie it up, or similar.
I would concur that trimming is quite different in my mind if I am to shoe, than if for barefoot - having said that, it always amazes me that people do not understand that the horse's environment matters equally as much, and can really affect the ability of the of the foot to do its job properly. I am always quite staggered by the amount of people who have their horse's shoes removed in winter 'because the ground is soft', without realising that the very moisture that causes the ground to be soft is absorbed into the horn making that soft too, and rendering it substantially less able to protect the structures within from concussion and bruising. I find myself endlessly explaining that horses, whose feet bear a much greater weight compared to their surface area,  sink in to soft ground - the only things that are capable of supporting this great weight under the ground, are the rocks inside, which the horses will strike hard with their soft feet, and it doesnt take a lot of imagination to derive the result. Also, mud is terribly abrasive and full of bacteria, it will wear away at the soft horn with ease as the horses walk through it.
As a result of much of this, I actually find that it is better for some horses if they are shod in winter and barefoot in summer. But that for me is just experience, and of course only applies to certain horses. 

As far as the thread topic is concerned, I do think that it is probably a good idea that the regulation is standardised, but I really hear the concerns of those people that say that it is in the interests of the regulators themselves and not so much the horses. I also am a farrier who keeps an eye on some horses who's owners will self trim, and I will always give them a guide as to what to look for if things are going awry, and to call me if they are concerned. I actually find that this approach helps my work, but I could see that it might cause a problem with a horse who was particularly prone to infection or of poor quality and require extra care. Personally I believe that if the new regulations were to be adopted, I dont see any reason why owners who wish to self trim could not qualify to do so, I think that maybe this could go some way to satisfying most people (and more importantly, most horses).  But one word of warning - I am old enough to remember the days before the registration act. When farriers were first registered, we were told, 'well, its only £20, thats one set a year.' We now pay well over 2 sets, and I can see it going considerably higher quite soon. So if you become registered as a self trimmer, the likelihood is, you would be required to pay a fee. Consider the reason why you self trim. If it is because you think you are doing a good job and your horse is comfortable because of it, then I would urge you to get qualified. If you are just doing it to cut costs, then you may not have your horse's best interests at heart. Anyone with that attitude, I think, should not be allowed to do so.

Merry Christmas!


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## Slightlyconfused (25 December 2014)

I'm lucky in the fact that my farrier has no problem with me wanting to keep mine barefoot including my Tb. 
He always says its not the breed but the horse that dictates if they can go bf in full work (with out boots) 
My retired warmblood only gets a trim once a year but he checks her every other shoeing session just in case but always says she is doing a.good job her self.

There is a trimmer who goes to a friends yard who is always slating carriers and owners who shoe....to the point she has been asked to keep her opinions to herself or be banned from the yard.


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## JillA (25 December 2014)

Thank you Graeme Burt for your well reasoned post - I wish there were more like you. I do understand to a point why there can be antipathy amongst registered farriers to the trimming fraternity, and it is thanks largely to the Strasser butchers - my former farrier was involved in reconstructing many feet that had suffered at the hands of them. 
It is the same old same old - there are good and bad in both camps, but sadly if you happen to be using one of the "bad" it can take a large part of a horse's working life to recover from the damage done, and the memory of pain and discomfort is pretty much always there.


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## TPO (26 December 2014)

I do wonder why FRC are looking to stop owners trimming their horses (currently legal) when there are numerous peoe shoeing their own horses (illegal).

Surely if it was solely about animal welfare they would tackle the illegal activities first? Given they can't even manage that why are they looking to make more things illegal and how do they expect to police that?

Every owner should have to learn about anatomy, function and hoof care. Then, and only then, will the bad farriers have to stop trading and people will start making informed decisions. Education is key.

Excellent post GB


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## NZJenny (26 December 2014)

So where does the regulation stop?  We are very "unregulated" in NZ, compared to the UK and when I read this, I can't help but think "what next?".  A licence for horse ownership?  You can do an awful lot of damage to a horse without touching it's feet.


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## Penumbra (29 December 2014)

I would actually rather see a license for horse ownership than this legislation come into place. I believe licensing horse ownership could have some function in improving animal welfare and costs could be kept down by linking it to the passport system. It could be implemented in such a way as to not inconvenience the average horse owner, but used to aid prosecution and trace owners in certain situations. Whereas, this system, like much animal welfare legislation, is poorly thought out and will not really solve the problem of bad trimming.

The way pet animal welfare is treated in this country is ridiculous, and there are so many things you can do to/with a pet animal that you would never get away with in other settings. If someone lames a horse through trimming it, they ought to be prosecuted under the animal welfare act (2008) which prohibits causing pain and suffering to an animal, but this will absolutely never happen- the act is very rarely enforced when it comes to pet animals, especially as the police will very rarely get involved, and the RSPCA will not act except in situations of extreme cruelty/neglect.


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