# Anyone got a lame horse they keep alive?



## somethingorother (23 July 2009)

I know, i know, i'm going to get shot down but a few of the earlier posts made me think. 

I used to look after a horse who had arthritis in both back legs and a swollen leg from an old injury which caused circulation problems. It was pretty huge and never went down to normal size, no matter what although it did reduce in size and stiffness when turned out.

From what most people say, he should be put down as he is always slightly lame, even turned away. He can't live out all day as he gets terrible mud fever, and so comes out stiff each morning for 5 mins before he loosens up. 

But he's so happy when he's kept right. He's always excited to go out each morning, jumping around like a loon. His leg goes up over night but down a lot once out. He's in his 20s now and has been retired for many years, so is of use to no one. He will always be lame and stiff, but so long as he has food and a clean stable, and gets to go out and play during the day most days he is very content. 

I have a bad back and a bad foot from an old injury, i can't run and jump, i'm no good for carrying anything and i ache most of the time. I'm only 21. I still enjoy life and would not want to miss it. If i was a horse though i think i'd have been shot. 

Surely there are others out there who agree? Obviously, you know when a horse is unhappy, and if you can't afford a field ornament then PTS is definitely better than passing around. I'm not saying subject them to pain. But when i read posts on here, it seems like every horse with a slight limp should be pts, never mind if they are happy or not to put up with it like we all do. 

Discuss. And shout at me if you like


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## Ebenezer_Scrooge (24 July 2009)

I had my old mare until the end and never retired her just kept her going on bute in consultation with my vet.  Even though she was 25 years plus she would love to still gallop even when asked for a steady canter. The day before she broke her leg  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 she was still up for it.  The day I got her I made a vow to keep her until the end no matter what.  My boy I have now also has a home for life .  It's not just about the riding I love looking after him and spending time with him.


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## neddynesbitt (24 July 2009)

I'm not gonna shout at you, I totally agree  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I have my horses for life &amp; it's not their fault if they can't be ridden.  My lad is really happy &amp; loves to play with his mates (he normally starts it  
	
	
		
		
	


	




)  If he was not happy or in pain then that would be totally different.

My old lad who I had owned since 6 months old was unable to be ridden for the last year of his life &amp; I had no doubts about keeping him until it all got too much.

He was happy but one day he badly sprained his deep digital flexor tendon &amp; I couldn't put him throu box rest with his arthritis etc and he was not happy so the decision was made for us.

I have no problem with others making whatever decision they wish &amp; it would be nice if people would respect my decision to keep them.


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## skewby (24 July 2009)

Interesting.  I dunno but what comes to mind is I went to a friend's yard once, she had to turn out this livery's ex-master's horse and it was riddled with arthritis (but clearly a totally awesome horse in his time).  It bloody fell out the box (which was far too small for it) and loosened up a bit by the time it got to the field.  I think in that case I don't know how bad it was, but if you're going to keep him going (to be fair he looked happy and was a good weight) then manage the condition and see if it works.  Keep him out and ride him, which I don't think the owner was doing much of either, and just see if he's happy.


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## traceyann (24 July 2009)

my horse was very lame he wasnt even field sound and was stuck in his box five months plus having treatment vet told me to put him on bute which i did three weeks he got ulcers in his mouth that was it i was going to put him down it was no life for a horse then the day it was going to happen he went out in thr field to have one last play with his mates he play with them and then decided to jump the fenceing to play with the others this saved his life as i knew he wasnt ready to go so had the lastest treatment and the last no more can be done if it didnt work i do think when your horse is no longer happy or in so much pain you have to do the right thing no matter how hard it is you owe them that. Like you i have a bad back i need a hip replacement and after many falls everything hurts my horse is in better shape than me i think if i got a vet to look at me i would be put down straight away i just wish i had as many supplements as my horse does but cant afford them


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## scattynuttymare (24 July 2009)

Yes. For the last 4 years my old girl has been a lawnmower. She is lame but happy. Untill I see that he quality of life is going downhill and as long as I can afford to keep he happy and comfortable I will keep my lame horse alive.


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## merlinsquest (24 July 2009)

I have a horse with arthritis..... but he is sound and in full work 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Lucky me eh??

But I think a lot of the pts posts and answers that get put on here are because people want to either sell or give said horse away.  In these cases the poor horse would be better to be put down humanely, than to be passed from piller to post for a few quid each time 
	
	
		
		
	


	









Some people can also only afford to keep one horse and want to have one they can ride...... I suppose it costs more to have an ill or unsound horse than it does a sound one, so again, from the riders pont of view there is no other decision to be made.

Merlin will be with me till he is not able to enjoy life anymore.  He is rather lucky that I actually dont want another horse when he is gone.... so there is not any racing hurry for him to be despatched 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 But that said, he has to be happy, and the time will come with every horse when they just are not happy anymore


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## kellyeaton (24 July 2009)

if he is pain free on medacation or not as long as he has in trests and a happy life keep him going if in pain and on medication stood around not eating loosing weight eytc etc then no that is not right!


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## MurphysMinder (24 July 2009)

Our old pony was lame when she came to us from the WHW.  She had arthritis and I had her as a companion, as she couldn't cope with even gentle work.  As a field ornament she was virtually sound for nearly 10 years, then started showing signs of lameness, she went on a low dosage of bute and was I felt happy for another 4 years, she would play with the others and never lost weight.  However when she reached her early 30s she started to have problems getting to her feet and slipped and fell a couple of times when joining in games in the field.  After discussion with my vet and the WHW field officer she was pts, I couldn't bear the idea of her falling, or getting stuck lying down, when I was not there to help her.
I am lucky that I have my own land, so we currently have one horse in work, and 3 retired.  If I had to pay for livery I would still have kept the oldies, daughter jsut would not have had anything to ride .

Ets.  But if for some reason I could not keep them, they would be pts, not passed on to an uncertain future.


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## gemmahodgkinson (24 July 2009)

my gorgeous 7 year old mare who I had when she was five and who is my first (and only) horse can't be ridden any more due to injury she incurred 2 weeks after i bought her. Fingers and toes crossed there is a glimmer of hope she may recover eventually but if she doesn't she will be with be forever. I can't afford two and it's heart breaking to see my friends go off and have fun but I owe it to her not to just trade her in because of an event that was totally not her fault. 

I see her twice a day, and she still gets as much love and cuddles and fuss as if she was ridden every day. 

If i was ever unable to afford to keep her I would try and find her a loan companion home with someone i know, or I would have her PTS. I couldn't sleep if i sold her on and thought she could end up in the next amersham.


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## Minxie (24 July 2009)

Yup - my youngster was horribly injured when he was just 2.  He's now 7.  Admittedly he's not on bute or anything as he's only lame at an extended trot and the vets think that its due to his 'action' because he severed his tendon.   

I don't ride him although the general feeling at the vet hospital is that he could be ridden.

I think he's got a fabby life in a field with three Shetland friends. Granted he's not going doing much with his brain but he is being exactly what nature intended him to be - a pony.


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## NotAnotherChestnut (24 July 2009)

My girl has arthritis now - I've had her since a 4yo and she's now 16 - the change has really been noticeable this year.  However, she still acts like a 4 year old when we go out on a ride and theres a potential canter opportunity she spies!  In general, she struggles when she first comes out of her box but I'm always careful to spend a long time in walk - after which she really loosens up and I can still get some nice work out of her.  That's what works for her.

I made the decision this year to stop showing her and just let her set the pace - if she's feeling good one day - great!  If she feels a bit stiff and sore another, well that's fine too - I won't push her that day.  If you know your horse, I believe horses are able to let you know how they are feeling.

I think that with careful management of conditions, most horses will be able to continue to lead a happy life until they tell you otherwise.  I would certainly not write off a horse just because there was an issue esp when that issue is manageable - but by the same token, I wouldn't also keep a horse alive if it were suffering or in pain that could not be managed and it's quality of life was at stake.


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## Cuffey (24 July 2009)

I have a pony with Cushings--he hovers close to lami
If kept in he gets very stiff
Out he is with his best pal but I risk him getting lami
His pal exercises him--nips his backside to keep him moving and at the moment that is the best solution
He has just got over another abscess and was sore and miserable until it fully drained
Yesterday I watched him lead his pal in canter right round the grazing
As long as there are more good days than bad he will not be pts.
Criticism on here is only for people who try to ''palm off'' their lame horses to charities or to others as companions or if Quality of Life sinks too low.


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## Flame_ (24 July 2009)

Yep, Flame's not been sound enough to to cope with work since she was 15. She's 29 now and kind of stiff, but on a bute a day she's still a speed demon in the field.


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## luckilotti (24 July 2009)

All i can say is William 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Some would maybe have PTS when he was finally retired 4 years ago but hes been happy since. 
Hes REALLY messed my head up at the moment, as the vet suggested reducing the bute, and seeing how he goes, and well yesterday, he did a very energetic walk over to the gate for some munchies!  Yet i had said that in August.......
hope your feeling a bit better btw x


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## wildpoppywild (24 July 2009)

not gonna shout totally agree wi u


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## MontyandZoom (24 July 2009)

I don't really know how to phrase this in a way that explains what I mean and doesn't sound stupid........but here goes.

There is a horse at my field that has severe ringbone. He is lame in walk on 3 danilon a day. He shifts his weight from foot to foot when standing as he is very uncomfortable and spends alot of time lying down, then spends alot of time trying to get up again. 

Having said that, he is the same as he has always been in temperament and bumbles along as normal, waits by the gate for his tea and grazes. His owner says he is lame but happy so she is keeping him alive.

I disagree! Horses are very simple creatures and he has accepted that he is in pain and gets on with it. I don't think this means that he wouldn't be better off PTS. He can't even stand up without pain. How can any creature be 'happy' in that state?! I think people anthropomorphise their animals to justify keeping them alive for selfish reasons.

That said - I don't think that ANY of the cases above are like that. As it happens, I have an arthritic 28yo tb who is always stiff, still lightly ridden. I just wanted to put a different POV across.


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## Flame_ (24 July 2009)

m&amp;z, that is absolutely terrible. The vet shouldn't support maintaining a horse in that much pain either.


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## BBH (24 July 2009)

My 16'3hh TB was retired 12 yrs ago at 11 cos of collapsed contracted heels.He has always been paddock sound but not ridden sound.  He was on livery for the first 7yrs after and then I bought my own yard. I have another field ornament cos he is mad and when i'm tired I do sometimes begrudge them but in the main we're fine.


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## kerilli (24 July 2009)

m&amp;z, i agree with you on that one. if he's in constant pain, pts would be kinder. just because he's not standing there saying "oooowwwww" out loud doesn't mean that he's not suffering. he's enduring, poor lad.
as for the others, as long as they have a good quality of life, and look happy in themselves (with NO pain) i think it's fine.
one of mine fractured his pedal bone in the field years ago, had it operated on, box rest, he came totally sound and then started putting up new bone growth, crippled, nothing vets could do. he was only 7. i took him home for a few days of fussing before pts, giving him lots of bute because it wasn't going to make any difference or do any harm in a couple of days. on the 2nd day, despite about 4 bute, he was walking like a cripple. i took him straight to the vets. yes, he was still sweet and happy, he still pricked his ears and loved attention, but i could not have him in such pain, not able to canter around the field with his mates etc, not for 1 more second.


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## Ranyhyn (24 July 2009)

The thing which worries me is horses are incredibly stoic.  They are strong, brave creatures who I have often see hide their pain and still act normally when its impossible they couldn't have been in pain eg:

When I had my old horse M, he was a b***tard for being nasty in the field to ponies, unfortunately new ponies got put in his field and he terrified this old mare so much she jumped out of the field, misjudged and landed on the fence post, smashing straight through into her chest.

When I got there she was stood in the field with flies all over her, she stood patiently while I fussed around desperately trying to decide what to do, walked to her stable calmly and sweetly and put up with the vet poking around - all before she had pain relief.  Granted shock would have given her some relief and adrenalin but surely she must still have been in pain??

That is the part I don't like and that scares me.  That our friends ARE in pain and they are just too eagre to keep their human counterparts happy.


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## MontyandZoom (24 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
m&amp;z, that is absolutely terrible. The vet shouldn't support maintaining a horse in that much pain either.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

She is on her 3rd Vet practice........nuff said


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## kerilli (24 July 2009)

Kitsune is right.
years ago when i was a teenager, at the livery yard i used to use, i found a horse in the field with an obviously broken hindleg (swinging) and an arterial bleed. i had to bring him in (on 3 legs obv) away from all the other horses, get the vet, hold him while the deed was done. the whole time he stood there, accepting my attention, ears pricked, happily munching hay. i stared into his eyes for a long time while i was waiting for the vet, and i swear this horse looked just the same as usual. a human in the same situation would probably have been screaming with pain...


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## natalia (24 July 2009)

I judge my horses in this way-

A horse is a flight animal, they have it in their best interests not to show any signs of pain or weakness, its hard wired in to their genetic make up, as weaker animals are always picked off first. Should they not be able to run round and keep up with the herd in the normal way then they have no qaulity of life, albeit mentally. This distresses me, as i have seen groups of horses shun the older weaker ones to the point we had an old pony lose its footing near the gate a few years ago, he went down and his normally peaceful field mates kicked the living day lights out of him as they saw the fact he was down asa  threat. Horses will push away the old and sick, which unfortunately makes these horses unhappy when out, even if when they see you they look content and happy to eat etc. There is nothing worse than having an older horse on the yard who struggles to get up in the mornings, horses do not lay down for longer than about an hour as they are to vunerable, hence if your older horse has been down for a fw hours and struggles to get up then they will be distressed, even if once up they seem fine , they ar not like human and do not remember experiences like this in the same way, it just isn't how thier brains work! 
I personally feel that unless your older horse can keep up with the group, is moving freely and eating well and not losing weight your better off having them PTS. The only circumstance in which i would keep a doddery older horse going was if he was only out with other doddery older horses in a safe environment  and even then i wouldn't keep something that was lame going, as in the wild natural selection would have finished him off, and as a flight animal, this is more distressing to the horse than anything else. 
AS Kerilli said, just because they can't say owch dosne't mean they aren't in pain, its just that because they are prey animals, they know they have more chance of survival if they don't show it, a horse with a broken leg will always try and get up and move, even if they can't, unlike a human, who would just lay there screaming!


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## moralcampaigner (24 July 2009)

I have an old heavy, he is 21 and has had a torn tendon sheath and has arthritus, I maintain him with glucoosamine, devils claw and the occasional bute.
The minute I see that none of this is working then he will be pts. 
He is a happy old soul, I hack him out occassionally, he doesnt jump or have a hard hack, but he is happy and painfree.
I have been shot down in flames many times on here and another for keeping him alive, however I know him and would know if he was in pain, the vet has told me he is fine too


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## Flame_ (24 July 2009)

QR

Just want to point out the obvious that "lame" can range from anything from spavin to broken legs. If a horse isn't field sound enough to keep up with the other horses or needing to lie down etc, the owner has left the decision too late.


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## somethingorother (24 July 2009)

I think there is a big difference between coping and actually being happy. 

I have seen horses who are just coping. They mooch around, they seem quiet and calm and unbothered about things which might normally bother them, like being on thier own. 

If a horse still feels able to have a rodeo in excitement as it goes through the gate to the field, and is actively interested, being nosey etc then i think that's the type that i would not pts. As soon as that excitement for life went then of course i would pts. I'm not saying keep them alive when they can't get up easily (i think that's one of the most distressing things) or when they are just about able to potter about very slowly and in obvious pain. M+Z- i think we would all agree the horse you mentioned is unhappy and just getting on with things the best he can, and that's unfair. 

I suppose there's a thin line. The same owner does keep her horses going too long 'until they die of old age' which is usually thrashing around in a fit or unable to get up once down. I think this is too much, but the horse i mentioned originally is a long way from that. He moves unevenly in the field and dips slightly in trot. This is different to a very lame horse who is reluctant to move or a very stiff one who has to shuffle along.


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## ester (24 July 2009)

I think the assesment of 'pain' in animals is inherently difficult and highly subjective, hence any decisions made to PTS or not are also so.

I will make that decision when I and my vet feel it is appropriate to make that decision, it might not be the right time in everybodies eyes but that doesn't matter if I think it is right for my horse. 

As for retiring I don't know, its very hard to tell as every situ is different. Frank has never had lami but would have sig weight issues if unexercised so it might depend if he could do a bit of hacking etc. We have our own land so would have multiple options, all of which would be carefully thought over when the time came.


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## amandaco2 (24 July 2009)

if its still got QOL then yes i would keep as pet or in work as approp.


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## Rana (24 July 2009)

My girl is old and creaky.  She's reasonably level behind, but definitely stiff, especially on a circle.  She's 1/10 lame in front on a straight line, 2/10 on a circle.  She has a past injury on this leg.  She doesn't have the temperament to be a quiet hack, so she's an expensive field ornament.

She runs rings round the pony she lives out with (pony in regular work, probably 20 years younger than she is!), bullies her mercilessly for mutual grooming, hoons round like a complete idiot in trot and canter (I do accept her galloping days are over now!).  She can still do a lovely passage on the way to or from the field, still rears and bucks, although these are less dramatic than they were 5 years ago.

I don't often see her lying down, but can tell she's rolled, or been lying in her shavings, so she is obviously still happy to lie down and get up.  

She does need rugging more now she's older, especially if it's cold and damp.  She has devils claw, but she's not on any bute.  I'd say she's happy - she has a stable overnight in the winter, but out 24/7 this time of year (unless constant rain).  She is stiff in the morning when she comes out of her box, but to be fair, she does have to come straight out of her stable and up a stony hill (she's not shod behind and I think she struggles on the stones - she's fine once on the grass).

Sorry for the long post, but yes, in short, I have a lame horse who I keep alive.  I'm always aware of her movement and attitude, and monitor her behaviour and weight regularly.  She's a very expressive horse and it's easy to tell if something isn't quite right.  As soon as she isn't herself, she'll be PTS having had several years of retirement and the best care I could give her.


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## fatpiggy (24 July 2009)

Yes, and I will continue to do so until it isn't in HER best interests.  I have had my horse for 15 years and for 13 of them she has been a drug-controlled epileptic. This has cost me more than my mortgage over the years but we have had alot of fun together which you can't put a price on. She can't have bute and her arthritis drugs set me back another £60 or so per month.  She has spectacularly lumpy knees with little bend in them , but she tootles about with her friends, eats well, is looking bonny, has a roll in the mud and a run about if she feels like it. Next week she is having a physio session to check she is as comfortable as possible. I have a ruined back, sore knees and an arthritic toe and live in constant pain which can only get worse with time so I am only too well aware that one day it will be too much for my mare (she is 26) and it will be my job to put a stop to it - she is the lucky one.  She has given me so much pleasure and has worked hard for me so now I am returning the favour.


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## Riverboy (24 July 2009)

See I often battle with this one... my ponio will never be quite right again, following 18 months of treatments whilst he is 'happy' and pretty much sound he's not the same pony he was before - it has aged him.

The vet and farrier are happy for him to go on, and whilst the weathers nice this summer and they are happy he will continue.  He's just been given the go head to start very light hacking again and I am hoping that will give him some spark back and he hates being a field ornament.  That said he's always been a quiet stoic boy - so I keep a close eye and rely on him, my vet and farrier to let me know when we feel its all got too much.

I think sometimes its hard to know - in some peoples eyes I'm cruel to keep him going, in others to think about having him PTS when nothing is 'life threatening' is heartless and I should be ashamed...


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## Walrus (24 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
my gorgeous 7 year old mare who I had when she was five and who is my first (and only) horse can't be ridden any more due to injury she incurred 2 weeks after i bought her. Fingers and toes crossed there is a glimmer of hope she may recover eventually but if she doesn't she will be with be forever. I can't afford two and it's heart breaking to see my friends go off and have fun but I owe it to her not to just trade her in because of an event that was totally not her fault. 

I see her twice a day, and she still gets as much love and cuddles and fuss as if she was ridden every day. 

If i was ever unable to afford to keep her I would try and find her a loan companion home with someone i know, or I would have her PTS. I couldn't sleep if i sold her on and thought she could end up in the next amersham. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Blondy I just have to say that's the most awful bad luck, I really feel for you but so impressed by your attitude to the siuation - your horse is very lucky to have landed with you.


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## bailey14 (24 July 2009)

My horse was 6 when he had a compound fracture of his tibia.  Luckily my friend was trying to catch her horse and saw the whole thing happen and the vet was there within about half an hour of it happening.  Thing was I got there before the vet and saw my horse ears pricked forward standing on three legs.  He even slightly whickered when he saw me walk towards him.  He did not look like he was in agony as I say his ears were forward, head high, looking around him, not distressed in the slightest.  I think the adrenalin kicks in which counteracts the pain and the endorphins kick in which are the body's natural pain killers.  Sometimes you hear of people who have their legs bitten off by sharks, or they are shot but they feel no pain.  I think it is a similiar thing.  I was watching IPPH Horse Rescue on Horse and Country the other day and they were saying about how incredibly stoic donkeys are.  If a donkey looks ill it is literally very poorly indeed, as they are very brave and never show pain as such.


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## Alibear (24 July 2009)

My retired chap is lame on all 4 legs, digestive and respiritory  systems have played up over the years and he has small catteracts in both eyes.

He lives out 24x7 with other retired horses and lives the life of riley, his digestive and respiritory problems have gone and he holds weight better now than he ever did when in work. 

Hes trimmed but not shod and not on any drugs as yet. He has an unusual gate but W,T,C is no problem and he's learnt to jump the ditch to. 

As long as he seems happy he can keep going and if that means a bute a day for as while that's fine to. 

I only got to ride him for 2 years but he's earnt his retirement well and truly.


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## ISHmad (24 July 2009)

One of ours is lame with arthritis, has been retired for nearly 3 years and is happy being a field ornament.  She has to have painkillers daily (Danilon) to keep her comfortable but at this stage she still appears bright, interested in everything around her and happy in her quiet herd of horses.

Should the day come when she isn't, and I believe we will know because of the expressive type of mare that she is, then we will have to have a re-think.  Please though that that doesn't happen for a long long time, she's a beautiful horse and means the world to our family.


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## soph21 (24 July 2009)

My welsh A has arthritis in one of his back legs, from a bad injury as a yearling, he's 12 now and he has the odd bad day, but he lives out 24/7 and he's ticking over with light exercise, I dread the day he has to be PTS, Ive had him since he was 4 
	
	
		
		
	


	




I just make the most of him!


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## spotty_pony (24 July 2009)

I completely agree with you. I own four horses and two of them are just pets! One is a 19 year old Welsh Section A who is a rescue pony and the other is a 30 year old Thoroughbred who has arthritis. Both are very happy. We spend time with them, grooming them etc and they are both love the attention.

If a horse is in pain or is retired but really unhappy the i agree that to have the horse PTS would be the best option. 

However, horses which are permanently lame but are quite happy to stay retired make great companions and pets provided they can be looked after and cared for correctly. I am currently looking after a horse with lameness problems, and if she is permanently lame I may look at buying her as I have become really attached to her. 

Yes, some people think I am mad but I think that if you can provide a horse with a good home and a good quality of life then why not?!


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## sav123 (25 July 2009)

I agree, it's all to do with quality of life.

My old horse went lame in one of his back legs, which turned out to be in the fetlock.  He was already on bute, he wouldn't be able to be ridden again, and it would get progressively worse.  The vet said he'd be ok to have a last summer out in the field (it being July at the time) - he was well in himself, and was field sound.  Shortly after though, I happened to see him trying to get down to roll without putting weight on that leg.  My immediate thought was that rolling is a natural part of being a horse, and he can't do that properly anymore - he was put down very soon after.

I have supported people who have had horses put down, for the right reasons, when others have criticised them for doing so.

Equally, I have also seen people leave horses going on for far too long, which is absolutely heartbreaking.

My current horse is getting to the stage of life where things may start getting a bit stiff and creaky.  I'd like to think that I'll do the right thing for him at the right time, just as I did for the other one.


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