# pi@@ed off about ebay & their promise to refund every b@tch out



## coralwings20 (13 September 2014)

I had a master saddler over to check the air in my albion flair saddle - when I rode in it, it was clear with his roach back it was a little long for him so she valued it at £600. I saw a saddle I really wanted so when this girl offered me £400, I accepted it expecting her to pay immediately as agreed. She took 24 hours to pay & I lost out on the saddle I wanted. She has now received the saddle & states it's discoloured - I have 60 photos to prove it wasn't & saddlers report to say it wasn't. Her answer is buyer protection & she isn't happy with the saddle (more like it doesn't fit her horse). Of course ebay will favour her but I don't have the £400 anymore - what can I do? &#128557; how long will the case remain open before I have to sell something of value ie my mums eengagement ring to pay this conniving bitch back?! &#128544;

As soon as she is awarded her money back,  I'm taking her to small claims court + contacting watchdog & such programmes. 

The buyer protection is being so abused innocent & honest sellers like me end up out of pockey!

&#128544;


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## Queenbee (13 September 2014)

Did you tick no refunds?  Ebay, i have found is quite fair.  They supported me as a seller and upheld the sale.  I would actually call ebay and chat it through with them.


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## webble (13 September 2014)

Does she not have to provide evidence of the discolouration to ebay for themt o refund her?


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## Regandal (13 September 2014)

Oh dear.  Not good.  Sorry, no helpful suggestions, but I wouldn't risk selling on ebay.  Next time try preloved perhaps?


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## webble (13 September 2014)

Just thought but she may of course be a member on here too


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## coralwings20 (13 September 2014)

Doesn't matter if you put accept refunds or not, ebay will always side with the buyer.


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## Equi (13 September 2014)

She has to provide proof that it is "discoloured" and you can counter it. In this case i think eBay would favor you actually - unless you didn't tick "no returns"


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## risky business (13 September 2014)

Surely she cannot make that claim without proving proof of this claim? 

Especially if you have evidence that it was in the condition you stated when sold, I would be talking to eBay about this before doing anything.


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## Equi (13 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Doesn't matter if you put accept refunds or not, ebay will always side with the buyer.
		
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Not always. I've had cases where they have just said "sort it out with yourselves, theres nothing we can do"


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## Equi (13 September 2014)

As for how long it takes, usually 10 days after a case has been escalated. (it takes 8 days i think before it can be escalated?) so around that..


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## coralwings20 (13 September 2014)

Don't care if she's a member or not, looking at her feedback left for others, it appears I'm not the first person she has screwed over over saddles.  I have asked her for photos but conventally she is away this weekend . I literally sold the saddle 6 hours after the master saddler left!


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## Sugar_and_Spice (13 September 2014)

OP accept it back before the cow does something to make it discoloured therefore winning the case and devaluing the saddle. Hope its only that it doesn't fit her horse and not that she's broken it. Then sell it via a means where you don't have to accept paypal as a payment method. If someone wants to pay with paypal eg on Preloved, only accept it if they pay via the "send friends money" option then the buyer protection rules don't apply. Paypal is rubbish for sellers. If you decide to relist on eBay choose the "collection only" option, put "cash on collection" in the listing and refuse a paypal payment when someone wins. If they pay that way refund them and insist on cash.


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## Equi (13 September 2014)

She clearly wants a good saddle for cheap and wont pay for a saddler. Id fight it personally. If it came back in less condition you could open a case on her anyway


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## coralwings20 (13 September 2014)

I have 60 photos (alot with the serial number on display & that dates paper). So should it come back the way not sent, I shall also add the value of the saddle to the small claims I'm going to issue. I paid £700 for this saddle &) a month ago & that saddler is also going to write a report. She may win through eBay but let's see her chances in court.


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## coralwings20 (13 September 2014)

I will never sell via eBay again, only buy.


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## Equi (13 September 2014)

Wait and see the outcome x


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## Crumpet (13 September 2014)

If you're not a business seller you are not obliged to accept returns if the item is sold as described unless you stated in the advert that you accepted returns. If you have it returned make sure you get proof of postage and a tracking number from the buyer. Be careful of a chargeback on your paypal, I hope you get this sorted without having to pawn your worldly goods.


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## flirtygerty (13 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Doesn't matter if you put accept refunds or not, ebay will always side with the buyer.
		
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Not true, I lost £3000 when buying a hot food van that wan't fit for purpose, first large purchase and being honest, thought I had to take it beause of E bays wording, complained to E bay and got nowhere, van was valued a a max of £1000


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (13 September 2014)

Oh dear.......

There's a scammer on a Facebook second hand saddles page who seems to be using a huge number of persona's/aliases, think the original name was Poppy Eastwood; seems that daily she's going by a different name.

Hope this isn't one of her nasty little scams???


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## Pilib (13 September 2014)

I sold a saddle cloth second hand on e-bay. Buyer paid, I posted and she left great feedback. She then e-mailed to say that the saddle cloth had hair on it and she wanted a refund! Even though she'd left good feedback e-bay sided with her and I was forced to refund.....  Ridiculous!


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## Moomin1 (13 September 2014)

This is exactly why I refuse to sell anything of any major value on ebay.  Or buy for that matter.


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## Queenbee (14 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Doesn't matter if you put accept refunds or not, ebay will always side with the buyer.
		
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Absolutely not true, as i stated earlier, they supported me and upheld the sale, infact there was a time a few years ago when i sold a saddle, believing it to be one design and it actually was another, as a result the buyer asked if she could return it, i was happy to do this as i felt awful for making the mistake and ebay, actually asked me if i was happy to return it as i had ticked the no refund box.  Just call ebay, they DO NOT always side with the buyer.


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## MissTyc (14 September 2014)

Call Ebay and discuss. 

And it might be worth just accepting the saddle back and refunding quickly, even if you have to borrow the money, and then sell it again asap so cover those costs, perhaps on a collection only equine Facebook page or something? Saddles seem to sell very well on Facebook.


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## coralwings20 (14 September 2014)

Thing is on all my listing I put will accept returns within 14 days at buyers cost so looks like I've no choice but to accept the saddle back & ask my mum for the money (I'm 40 btw) but will double check this with hubby when he gets up as he knows more about ebay than me. I'm worried I'm going to get a saddle that matches mine but isn't the same one (my saddler wrote the serial number down as she phoned albion to confirm all the small derails of the saddle such as a tb head ect). This could well be a scam or just a silly little girl abusing the money back gatentuee.  Not slept as angry & worried at the same time.


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## hairycob (14 September 2014)

Well if you put you will accept returns within 14 days surely she is only doing anything what you said you were happy with in advance of the sale. It looks like your problem is not thinking things through in advance, not the buyer.


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## ester (14 September 2014)

hairycob said:



			Well if you put you will accept returns within 14 days surely she is only doing anything what you said you were happy with in advance of the sale. It looks like your problem is not thinking things through in advance, not the buyer.
		
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This, and you certainly should have ensured you had £400 to refund for that period! Especially for a likely to be returned item like a saddle.


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## hairycob (14 September 2014)

And to be fair to the buyer photos often don't give a good indication of colour so maybe it's just not what she expected. Also if £400 is going to give you such major problems what happens if your horse needs the vet?


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## Spotsrock (14 September 2014)

I took similar up with eBay, they dtill refunded but not at my expense. Fight it.


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## Jnhuk (14 September 2014)

It sounds like because you were in a rush to get the money so you could buy another saddle, you maybe let things slip that you wouldn't have done normally so end result you been done. Sure fight it and see what happens but sometimes you just have to put it done as one of those life learning experiences. Hope you get some recourse. 

Can you (or did you) check the buyer's ratings before you sell to them? If there were other negative reviews for other saddles they'd purchased as you mentioned then I would have been extremely wary selling to them. I have never sold stuff on ebay so curious now.


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## webble (14 September 2014)

hairycob said:



			Well if you put you will accept returns within 14 days surely she is only doing anything what you said you were happy with in advance of the sale. It looks like your problem is not thinking things through in advance, not the buyer.
		
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This^^it sounds like she is just taking you up on your offer. If I was a bit unsure about something on ebay for any reason but the seller offered refunds I would probably think it was worth the cost of postage to send it back and give it a try


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## coralwings20 (14 September 2014)

Yes, I was desperate to sell and didn't check all the boxes properly. I am going to email said bitch and take the saddle back at her cost - if she has discoloured it in anyway, I will open a case against her + small claims court. 

Why do people always bring up vets fees, my dogs & horses are insured and we have a savings account but to take it out - need 7 days notice.  Theses comments really annoy me.  &#55357;&#128544;&#128544;

I bought a derelict house and every spare penny goes towards doing it up but worth it to have my horses right outside.


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## Moomin1 (14 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Yes, I was desperate to sell and didn't check all the boxes properly. I am going to email said bitch and take the saddle back at her cost - if she has discoloured it in anyway, I will open a case against her + small claims court. 

Why do people always bring up vets fees, my dogs & horses are insured and we have a savings account but to take it out - need 7 days notice.  Theses comments really annoy me.  &#55357;&#128544;&#128544;

I bought a derelict house and every spare penny goes towards doing it up but worth it to have my horses right outside.
		
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You don't endear yourself by calling someone a bitch on a public forum.


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## YorksG (14 September 2014)

If the seller is returning within 14 days, which you agreed to, how does she deserve to be called the names you have called her. It isn't her fault you spent the money. I think you will be throwing good money after bad if you go to small claims court, who on the evidence you have given, would not find in your favour anyway!


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## Sugar_and_Spice (14 September 2014)

webble said:



			This^^it sounds like she is just taking you up on your offer. If I was a bit unsure about something on ebay for any reason but the seller offered refunds I would probably think it was worth the cost of postage to send it back and give it a try
		
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I agree, OP it would appear the buyer is not trying to scam you so I wouldn't worry about that. There's always a small possibility if scammers and if it worries you that much you need to not use paypal. Because you've put returns accepted in your listing its likely paypal would refund her if she put in a claim. If there is no money in your paypal account they'll take it from your bank account if it is linked to your paypal account, or chase you with letters and bailiffs if necessary. Just refund, like you said you would in your listing and be more careful what you put next time.

ETA you refund upon return, so if she sends back a different saddle, which you're worried about, you argue your case about that with paypal then.


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## coralwings20 (14 September 2014)

I'm calling her a bitch as the saddle was in good condition & no discolouration although I bloody well bet it comes back with some so good thing I took 60 photos of it & my saddler wrote down the serial number. If it didn't fit her horse, why not just be honest? What else would you call a dishonest buyer with attitude? I'm normally so laid back, it takes a lot to push my buttons. But her first message was downright rude telling me she is covered by buyers protection and so I had best give her her money back. Wish I'd looked at her Fb left for others as lots of negative left for other saddles she has bought. & no, I shouldn't have spent the money first but hubby is lending it to me. My 100% 7 year Fb will now be affected when she leaves negative.  What happens if she sends me a different saddle back or deliberately discolours it? Have never been in this situation before.


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## ester (14 September 2014)

Perhaps in future just give saddles to your saddler to sell or sell them in person then! 

Stop worrying about the what ifs at the moment, the likelihood is that you will get your saddle back as it was sent.


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## coralwings20 (14 September 2014)

It looks like she is a saddle dealer so fingers crossed I get my one back & not the same model but a manky one.


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## Luci07 (14 September 2014)

Pre-empt this happening then by forewarning her that you have photographic proof, written documentation from a master saddler and the serial number of said saddle and all be checked upon receipt of the saddle back.


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## hairycob (14 September 2014)

Wow. You really do have an attitude don't you. Poor buyer has taken you up on YOUR terms & conditions & gets called a bitch & assumptions made about her future action on a public forum. T&cs were your cock up . How about putting your ebay name on here because I bet there are  fair few people thinking they wouldn't want to buy off you. You cocked up with the ts & cs & by not checking feedback before making a substantial sale. Suck it up  & get the saddle back befofe you accuse her of anything else. I do wonder from your posts whether she was rude in her message to you or whether you are just narked because you have to find the £400.


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## Moomin1 (14 September 2014)

hairycob said:



			Wow. You really do have an attitude don't you. Poor buyer has taken you up on YOUR terms & conditions & gets called a bitch & assumptions made about her future action on a public forum. T&cs were your cock up . How about putting your ebay name on here because I bet there are  fair few people thinking they wouldn't want to buy off you. You cocked up with the ts & cs & by not checking feedback before making a substantial sale. Suck it up  & get the saddle back befofe you accuse her of anything else. I do wonder from your posts whether she was rude in her message to you or whether you are just narked because you have to find the £400.
		
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I tend to agree with this.


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## Dizzle (14 September 2014)

When selling anything of value on ebay I always wait for confirmation from the buyer that they are happy with said item before spending the money.


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## ester (14 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			It looks like she is a saddle dealer so fingers crossed I get my one back & not the same model but a manky one.
		
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If she were why on earth would she be sending it back not selling it on?


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## hairycob (14 September 2014)

Does make you wonder if saddle really is all OP says.


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## sasquatch (14 September 2014)

ester said:



			If she were why on earth would she be sending it back not selling it on?
		
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She maybe has damaged it or discoloured it herself by accident? Endless reasons behind it.

If I were OP, I would ask for photographs of the saddle and take it back. If saddle is in worse condition than it left, would then take action against her as she has damaged the saddle whilst she owned it. 
If saddle is the same saddle, and in same condition, then I would simply resell it through something other than eBay. 

If a different saddle is returned, then I would go through eBay as it is most likely a scam if she is a saddle dealer.

Unless you know what she does or doesn't do, it's unfair to say she is one thing or the other though.

Hard luck with spending the £400 OP, maybe next time you'll make sure to check everything suits you when you sell online!


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## webble (14 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I tend to agree with this.
		
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Me too!!


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## RaposadeGengibre (14 September 2014)

Can anybody actually access ebay today? It seems to be well and truly down.


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## Capriole (14 September 2014)

Seems ok to me, Im browsing there now...


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## webble (14 September 2014)

RaposadeGengibre said:



			Can anybody actually access ebay today? It seems to be well and truly down.
		
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it has been on and off all day


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## MyDogIsAnIdiot (14 September 2014)

RaposadeGengibre said:



			Can anybody actually access ebay today? It seems to be well and truly down.
		
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I can't. Pain in the arse as there's 2 tops finishing that I wanted to bid on.


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## *hic* (14 September 2014)

I have several windows open and can look at stuff but not log in.


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## RaposadeGengibre (14 September 2014)

Looks like back to normal...


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## *hic* (14 September 2014)

I still can't sign in *realises this discussion is usually on FB about HHO, and giggles*


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## coralwings20 (14 September 2014)

You are not getting it, it was checked & valued by a master saddler who has confirmed no discolouration 6 hours before sold so what am I to think when I receive a message saying it's not fit for purpose due to this? Had she been honest, I would have taken it back there & then due to it being my error saying no returns but I cannot abide liars.  I paid £65 to have this saddle checked and a receipt/mini report. 

But it appears from some of your comments,  she is well within her rights to be dishonest to get her own way. 

I am very worried about what I'm going to receive back as only a few months ago did I pay £700 for it &#128557; it cost me £40 to send so already £105 down. Listing on laptop from now on so I can put no returns.  Then ebay would still rule in her favour. Actually, thinking about it, will only buy off of eBay & not sell expensive items. 

This buyer is a liar and she knows it as all her messages said we're ebay would side with her regardless. 

I hope she is a member on here & doesn't scam someone else on here as I'm sure you would be as upset as me.


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## *hic* (14 September 2014)

You can put no returns all you want. If she claims it's not as described then she can open a dispute and, when prompted by ebay, sent it back. However, in this case you did say you'd accept returns and I wonder whether her first message asking to return it was met with a rude no from you and so she's taking this line of action.

It's not the buyer's fault you chose to have it valued so you can hardly claim she's caused you that loss. Then you presumably charged her to send it out so you can't blame her for that loss either. Honestly your best bet would have been to apologise profusely and accept it back to re-sell it. After all you think it's worth £200 more than she paid.


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## coralwings20 (14 September 2014)

No,  I offered her free postage out of the £400 so she actually only paid £360 for the saddle. Her first message was not very polite & it got my back up. No way am I apologising to someone who has blatantly lied - how did a saddle end up discoloured within 24 hours? You want me to apologise to a liar? Thank god the saddler saw it the day I sold it & was posted the next day. She obviously didn't like it so made up some lies. 

I have messaged her asking her to return the saddle I sent her on Monday if possible & also out of interest, asked for photos of discoloration.  

Just spoke to my friend, she sold a saddle & the buyer said the tree was broken but when ebay ruled in the buyers favour, the tree was sound. 

Ebay isn't a try, not like so open a case for a full refund.


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## hairycob (14 September 2014)

If you had come on here & posted "I've made a mistake in how I listed my saddle & now I have this problem - advice please" I am sure you would have received sympathy & good advice. After all everyone screws up at one time or another, but I am afraid the way you started the thread stank and you were responded to accordingly. Tbh I was surprised when you said your OH was lending you the money as my first guess was that you were about 14/15. It's not those saying what you don't like who don't get it. This time you just have to suck up your mistake & hopefully learn from the experience.


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## Queenbee (14 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Thing is on all my listing I put will accept returns within 14 days at buyers cost so looks like I've no choice but to accept the saddle back & ask my mum for the money (I'm 40 btw) but will double check this with hubby when he gets up as he knows more about ebay than me. I'm worried I'm going to get a saddle that matches mine but isn't the same one (my saddler wrote the serial number down as she phoned albion to confirm all the small derails of the saddle such as a tb head ect). This could well be a scam or just a silly little girl abusing the money back gatentuee.  Not slept as angry & worried at the same time.
		
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well then, where is the problem, its not her fault... she can return without giving a reason at all, she can return even if the saddle just doesnt fit.  It doesnt matter if she is lying, or even if she doesnt give a reason, you stated those terms of sale/return.  you are just going to have to find the money.


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## OldNag (14 September 2014)

If the buyer is claiming the saddle us discoloured ans the op knows it wasn't when she sent it, I am not surprised she is angry.

A couple of years ago I had an ebay buyer try to claim the saddle she bought from me was faulty. It wasn't . She didn't open a case. ,I suspect it didn't fit her horse so she thought she would try to return it rather than sell it on. I won't sell saddles on ebay now.


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## coralwings20 (14 September 2014)

Yes, I put my hands up to my mistake that I put returns accepted but what she has done is lied through her teeth - she hasn't even noticed my returns policy (I did) hence offering a full refund. I feel I have done the right thing in this instance considering she didn't notice it.

I detest liars which is why I was so angry at the start. I've calmed down now but panicking about what she has done to my saddle & if she even returns the right one.  

It appears I'm in the wrong for being angry at her lies &#128557;


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## Queenbee (14 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Thing is on all my listing I put will accept returns within 14 days at buyers cost so looks like I've no choice but to accept the saddle back & ask my mum for the money (I'm 40 btw) but will double check this with hubby when he gets up as he knows more about ebay than me. I'm worried I'm going to get a saddle that matches mine but isn't the same one (my saddler wrote the serial number down as she phoned albion to confirm all the small derails of the saddle such as a tb head ect). This could well be a scam or just a silly little girl abusing the money back gatentuee.  Not slept as angry & worried at the same time.
		
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Nope you are not wrong at all for being angry about lies, but you may have to weather this, however, with regards to you hoping she returns the correct saddle... do you have the serial number?  Photos or records of it?  I would again call Ebay, and if you do, but didnt put it on the listing record it with them before she sends the saddle back, along with photo evidence and a statement from your saddler, sadly I suspect however it goes you are liable for providing a refund on the saddle you sold, but you can take steps to ensure you are protected from her returning the wrong saddle


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## foxy1 (14 September 2014)

How is she scamming you?


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## coralwings20 (14 September 2014)

The saddler wrote the seriel number down for me as she phoned albion to find out the tree make ect which was all in the advert. I didn't add the seriel number to ebay. &#55357;&#128545;

I am angry at myself for being in such a rush to buy a t8 high withered saddle that I didn't advertise it at its true value, angry I never checked her Fb left for other sellers as she has complained about so many saddles that should have rung alarm bells, angry I didn't use the photos on my hubby's camera, just uploaded some from my phone & upset knowing I'm going to get one of her old stock saddles instead of my lovely £700 one. I paid over the odds a few months ago as it was in such mint condition & my horse did go well in it but he prefers the high wither t4/t8 saddles. & his welfare comes first. I got the saddler out to check the air & that's when we realised he goes better in the thorowgood saddles. By the way both my sharer & I won our dressage classes at the weekend in the t4 & it was her first ever dressage competition so that proves how much saddles are to your horses and how much better they go. Although I detest the thorowgood saddles lol &#128518;


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## hairycob (14 September 2014)

Like I said. If you had phrased your first post better you would have got sympathy but you phrased it in a way that made you sound like an immature brat
Lesson 1 be more careful how you make listings
Lesson 2 don't spend the money until.you are sure you won't have to return it
Lesson 3 delete  your first attempt at an angry post ( and posssibly the 2nd or 3rd attempt)


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## throughtheforest (14 September 2014)

I totally feel what you are going through as I am going through the same scenario however only part of what I sold has been sent back. 
PayPal can very easily be used as a means to commit a fraud and EBay are ridiculous. From now on list on websites such as Preloved and accept payment through bank transfer, no fees and full control for the seller.


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## MagicMelon (14 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			upset knowing I'm going to get one of her old stock saddles instead of my lovely £700 one. Although I detest the thorowgood saddles lol &#55357;&#56838;
		
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I think you need to just wait and see what turns up in the post. Hopefully it will be your one, if not then you'll need to contact Ebay and see what can be done. I also agree about your Thorowgood comment, I hate my T4 Cob but its the only thing that fits one of mine currently!


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## coralwings20 (14 September 2014)

Foxy - I don't know if I've been scammed as such yet but why send a lovely saddle back when she can make money on it tomorrow?  Why lie and say it's discoloured when it's not? As everyone can see, I have calmed down now & apologise for my first few posts &#128522;


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## webble (14 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Foxy - I don't know if I've been scammed as such yet but why send a lovely saddle back when she can make money on it tomorrow?  Why lie and say it's discoloured when it's not? As everyone can see, I have calmed down now & apologise for my first few posts &#128522;
		
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she might not want the time or hassle of selling it herself and she might have said it was discoloured to make sure she could send back. Does she mean discoloured or just a different colour to what she was expecting?


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## foxy1 (14 September 2014)

Ah I see, well hopefully she will send yours back and all will be well.  Fingers crossed for you


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## sidesaddlegirl (14 September 2014)

To the OP, I feel your pain as I've been selling on Ebay since 1999 and have weathered the all the changes they have made over the years, mostly to the benefit of dishonest buyers. Recently, I had someone send back a new beautiful Barnsby noseband that they had won for £4.99 and filed an "item not as described" on me. They said it was "brown" but I reckoned it just didn't fit their horse.  I got it back and sure enough, it was black. Once they file an "item not as described", you have to refund the buyer and accept a return. Ebay is also changing their policy soon to make everyone accept returns and if you don't, then the buyer will get their money back AND keep the item.


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## Queenbee (14 September 2014)

ester said:



			If she were why on earth would she be sending it back not selling it on?
		
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hairycob said:



			Does make you wonder if saddle really is all OP says.
		
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Have to say this is all pretty speculative^^^ Imagine this scenario:

You see a damaged saddle, pay £100 for it, search EBay and find the same saddle in excellent condition and pay £400.  you then complain about the one you purchased on Ebay, you send the damaged saddle (you only paid £100 for this) back in its place, you also receive a full £400 refund, you end up with £400 worth of saddle that only actually cost you £100.  

It could just as easily be a scam as poetic licence from op..


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## Queenbee (14 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			The saddler wrote the seriel number down for me as she phoned albion to find out the tree make ect which was all in the advert. I didn't add the seriel number to ebay. &#65533;&#55357;&#56865;

I am angry at myself for being in such a rush to buy a t8 high withered saddle that I didn't advertise it at its true value, angry I never checked her Fb left for other sellers as she has complained about so many saddles that should have rung alarm bells, angry I didn't use the photos on my hubby's camera, just uploaded some from my phone & upset knowing I'm going to get one of her old stock saddles instead of my lovely £700 one. I paid over the odds a few months ago as it was in such mint condition & my horse did go well in it but he prefers the high wither t4/t8 saddles. & his welfare comes first. I got the saddler out to check the air & that's when we realised he goes better in the thorowgood saddles. By the way both my sharer & I won our dressage classes at the weekend in the t4 & it was her first ever dressage competition so that proves how much saddles are to your horses and how much better they go. Although I detest the thorowgood saddles lol &#55357;&#56838;
		
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I have to say CW, I understand if you are upset about lies, but you are coming across as flying off the handle.  for a start, this purchaser has every right to return the purchase (a right you gave them).  More importantly, you are behaving as if she has scammed you 

"upset knowing I'm going to get one of her old stock saddles instead of my lovely £700 one. Although I detest the thorowgood saddles lol &#65533;&#65533;"

whereas the reality is you just do not know, you are prejudging, running someone down and worrying about something that has not happened.  

bottom line, you have a serial number so if it doesnt match, you are safe.


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## thatsmygirl (14 September 2014)

I will NOT sell via eBay after hearing horror stories from close friends. 
Let us know op what happens I'm interested to know the outcome and hopefully you get your saddle back ok


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## ester (14 September 2014)

Also if you had asked on here first most people would not advise selling saddles on ebay anymore, you get more for them and better protection by using the likes of preloved etc (and don't get stung for fees).


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## coralwings20 (14 September 2014)

Learnt a very hard lesson &#128544;


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## FestiveFuzz (14 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Learnt a very hard lesson &#128544;
		
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I'm not sure you can say that just yet. I mean sure it's not great the buyer has lied about their reason for returning the saddle but by offering a 14 day returns policy it doesn't matter what their reasoning was they'd still be well within their right to return the saddle within that timeframe. 

Whilst it's a pain in the proverbial that you'd already spent the money before you knew for certain they were happy with the saddle I fail to see how you've been scammed and don't know where you've got the idea they'll send a different saddle back. It's more likely that they missed you had a returns policy (I think you mentioned previously they hadn't realised) found the saddle didn't fit their horse and then decided to make up some excuse as to why it wasn't as described.


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## coralwings20 (15 September 2014)

She has just added photos to the case as I asked for and its ruined  &#128557; it's certainly not in the condition I sent it in - it is now worthless &#128546; so I owe her £400 for deliberately damaging my saddle. Looks like I'm going to have to go through the small claims court to try & get my money back. How can people get away with this? She has confirmed the seriel number. My £600 saddle is only good enough for the skip now &#128544; 

Am more upset than angry as this time as the human race can be a nasty bunch at times &#128546;


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## ester (15 September 2014)

Have you spoken to ebay, given that you have photos and a report to show the state it was sent in.


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## lastchancer (15 September 2014)

You have her address. Tell her you'll collect the saddle with your husband and his brothers, and refund what it's now worth. Don't be directly threatening though. She might back off, I scared a scammer away when she said the saddle had arrived damaged and yet she had pics of her horse wearing it on fb and comments saying it didn't fit! If she'd said that I'd have refunded anyway, there was no need to damage it. Muppet. I detest these people.


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## webble (15 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			She has just added photos to the case as I asked for and its ruined  &#55357;&#56877; it's certainly not in the condition I sent it in - it is now worthless &#55357;&#56866; so I owe her £400 for deliberately damaging my saddle. Looks like I'm going to have to go through the small claims court to try & get my money back. How can people get away with this? She has confirmed the seriel number. My £600 saddle is only good enough for the skip now &#55357;&#56864; 

Am more upset than angry as this time as the human race can be a nasty bunch at times &#55357;&#56866;
		
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Could it have been damaged in transit? Can you prove that she damaged it?


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## EmmasMummy (15 September 2014)

Ask her for a photograph of the serial number to prove it is your saddle!  And also the box it came in - there is a possibility that it was damaged in transit? 
Also speak to the courier company that sent it with and find out how to launch a claim - as if they have damaged it and it was insured then you will be able to claim.


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## Tiddlypom (15 September 2014)

webble said:



			Could it have been damaged in transit? Can you prove that she damaged it?
		
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This. How did you pack the saddle for transit?


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## coralwings20 (15 September 2014)

It was packed very well & pretty much the whole is saddle is a disgusting brown colour - not sure how it could have discoloured in transit. &#128544; bloody ebay & stammers!


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## FestiveFuzz (15 September 2014)

As others have said, have you actually spoken to ebay about this yet?


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## webble (15 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			It was packed very well & pretty much the whole is saddle is a disgusting brown colour - not sure how it could have discoloured in transit. &#128544; bloody ebay & stammers!
		
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could anytime have been spilt on it in transit? If so your claim could be with the carrier not the buyer


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## Tiddlypom (15 September 2014)

How exactly did you pack it? Eg wrapped in bubble wrap inside a sturdy box? Not getting at you, just trying to clarify things. Did you take a photo of the package before you sent it?


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## coralwings20 (15 September 2014)

We have been ebaying for years - the saddle was wrapped in clean towels, then bubble wrapped to an inch of it's life & then added those white small things until the saddle was secure. I have had saddles turn up in just a box but thank god they survived the journey.  Once again,  how can a saddle become that discoloured within 24/48 hours? 

Have started a money claims online as I'll be dammed if I let her get away with it! We are certainly not rich enough to lose £440! &#128544;


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## cronkmooar (15 September 2014)

Is it definitely your saddle that you have received photos of?

Ie have you a photo where you can see the damage and the serial number?

Playing devils advocate, if I genuinely received a saddle that was damaged then I would want a refund and I don't see how you are going to be able to take legal action against her.

She might not be a scammer, the saddle might have been damaged in transit and you therefore need to contact the courier and raise a claim with them

Have you spoken to eBay??


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## FestiveFuzz (15 September 2014)

Out of interest which courier did you use? I only ask as Yodel managed to completely ignore my request of redelivery and instead chose to take almost 3 weeks to return to sender instead. When it arrived the sender said both my saddle cloth and half pad appeared to have had dye spilt all over them. So even with the best packing these things can happen.


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## thatsmygirl (15 September 2014)

I'm sorry op what a nightmare for you. 
Iv had problems with a scammer before but I didn't give in and I came off better so hold in there and DON'T lose any money. I work with the general public and there's some nasty ******* out there.


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## Mince Pie (15 September 2014)

If this is still an ebay dispute then surely you can add the photos you have to prove that the saddle is now damaged, whether by the buyer or the courier?


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## Hedgewitch13 (15 September 2014)

I really don't understand some of the replies on this thread! You have every right to be peed off, I hope you get some joy through the courts. Don't let the buyer get away with it and stay off Ebay!  Wouldn't touch the site with a barge pole myself but that's just me


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## siennamum (15 September 2014)

Cripes, I have a good saddle on ebay at the moment. I thought accepting Paypal would protect buyers from scammers who take money without sending the goods. I shall have to be uber careful I think now. I have sold saddles on ebay before with no problem.
I must say some of the replies on here beggar belief, what a sanctimonious, spiteful lot some of you are. Glad I don't know you in real life.

Fingers crossed Op, what a nightmare, like you I could ill afford to lose £400 and tend to assume everyone is decent & honest.


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## coralwings20 (15 September 2014)

This links guys &#128522; how do I make a claim against her on ebay?


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## EmmasMummy (15 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			This links guys &#55357;&#56842; how do I make a claim against her on ebay?
		
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Did she open a dispute?  Have you sent ebay the pics and info you have to show that the saddle left you in a good state?  Also have you asked her to photograph the ID# for you etc, to make sure it is the same saddle?


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## coralwings20 (16 September 2014)

I will post photos of the saddle seen by my saddler and a complete check down & then post her photos.  Is there anyway of swapping seriel numbers as sitting here in tears as not got £440 to lose and I find what she did spiteful and nasty - to  ruin a saddle that has cleaned each week and stored in my house (no where secure for it in my stables) I can't sleep. Not her fault but I lost even more as only bought it a few months ago for £700.00 as it was immaculate. If anyone wants this buyers name to add to your avoid list, please pm me x


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## webble (16 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I will post photos of the saddle seen by my saddler and a complete check down & then post her photos.  Is there anyway of swapping seriel numbers as sitting here in tears as not got £440 to lose and I find what she did spiteful and nasty - to  ruin a saddle that has cleaned each week and stored in my house (no where secure for it in my stables) I can't sleep. Not her fault but I lost even more as only bought it a few months ago for £700.00 as it was immaculate. If anyone wants this buyers name to add to your avoid list, please pm me x
		
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Its not a Kent and Masters is it? I know they had some problems with a dodgy batch of leather a few years ago. Mine got wet and went a funny colour and the leather kind of bubbled


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## cronkmooar (16 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I will post photos of the saddle seen by my saddler and a complete check down & then post her photos.  Is there anyway of swapping seriel numbers as sitting here in tears as not got £440 to lose and I find what she did spiteful and nasty - to  ruin a saddle that has cleaned each week and stored in my house (no where secure for it in my stables) I can't sleep. Not her fault but I lost even more as only bought it a few months ago for £700.00 as it was immaculate. If anyone wants this buyers name to add to your avoid list, please pm me x
		
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You don't know she did anything spiteful and nasty

Have you contacted the courier firm and lodged a claim?

Have you contacted eBay?

To be honest you are coming across as not wanting to do anything to help yourself


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## EmmasMummy (16 September 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			You don't know she did anything spiteful and nasty

Have you contacted the courier firm and lodged a claim?

Have you contacted eBay?

To be honest you are coming across as not wanting to do anything to help yourself
		
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I would have thought she couldn't lodge a claim with courier unless its proven that it was damaged in transit?


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## cronkmooar (16 September 2014)

EmmasMummy said:



			I would have thought she couldn't lodge a claim with courier unless its proven that it was damaged in transit?
		
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She does not know that the saddle has been deliberately damaged though - she has just taken this line from the start.

Most people who packaged a saddle correctly and sent it off in perfect condition for then to be told it arrived in damaged condition would first think .......... hmmmm what could have happened here?  Has it been damaged in transit?

They wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that someone is spiteful, nasty a scammer and has deliberately damaged the saddle because it doesn't fit their horse and they want their money back.

The saddle was listed as available to return, so would you not just return it or sell it on seeing as you are a saddle dealer and could make a good few pounds on it?

You would also contact eBay immediately and put your case, especially when you have been "ebaying for years"

I think the saddle, if it is the same saddle, has been damaged in transit and that would have been my first email/phone call - long before posting on here.

However, with what the OP has posted on here if the courier company see it they will deny all responsibility.

Its not that I don't have sympathy with the OP - but sitting crying is not going to sort this matter out, being proactive might possibly do so!


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## EmmasMummy (16 September 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			She does not know that the saddle has been deliberately damaged though - she has just taken this line from the start.

Most people who packaged a saddle correctly and sent it off in perfect condition for then to be told it arrived in damaged condition would first think .......... hmmmm what could have happened here?  Has it been damaged in transit?

They wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that someone is spiteful, nasty a scammer and has deliberately damaged the saddle because it doesn't fit their horse and they want their money back.

The saddle was listed as available to return, so would you not just return it or sell it on seeing as you are a saddle dealer and could make a good few pounds on it?

You would also contact eBay immediately and put your case, especially when you have been "ebaying for years"

I think the saddle, if it is the same saddle, has been damaged in transit and that would have been my first email/phone call - long before posting on here.

However, with what the OP has posted on here if the courier company see it they will deny all responsibility.

Its not that I don't have sympathy with the OP - but sitting crying is not going to sort this matter out, being proactive might possibly do so!
		
Click to expand...

That is true....although if I had wrapped something within an inch of its life, and the buyer had accused me of sending a damaged saddle - before even commenting on the packaging etc -  I would think that they had done something to it. 

If they had said that the box arrived in a state and saddle was damaged I would be inclined to go with that explanation.  

Also, and maybe its just me being paranoid, If I buy something off eBay or in fact anywhere and it arrives ripped and re-taped or repackaged by the courier etc, I will take a pic of the box/package BEFORE I open it. 

I have had a saddle completely wrapped in bubble wrap and taped uip that has been pissed on by a dog at the yard and it wasnt damaged inside. 

I am NOT saying that it wasnt the packaging though.........just that if packaged as stated, that is a LOT better packaging that some big business horsie companies do, then I dont see what, other than total and prolonged submersion in liquid - could damage it to the point its ruined. 

Unless..............there was something ON the towel it was wrapped in.......

(and yes.........today is a slow day at work and this is like a murder mystery for me!!)


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## ester (16 September 2014)

I still don't understand how it is for the buyers benefit to damage an item and have to pay return postage for it.


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## EmmasMummy (16 September 2014)

ester said:



			I still don't understand how it is for the buyers benefit to damage an item and have to pay return postage for it.
		
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Someone further back posted an example - 2 saddles the same - - one broken one not.  Swap them about saying that the broken saddle is the good one and scam them basically.  SO you end up with an expensive saddle, and the refund for said expensive saddle. 

Folk have done stranger things...


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## hairycob (16 September 2014)

Me neither. I'm usually quick to spot a scam (the advantage of audit training) but this has me stumped.


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## webble (16 September 2014)

EmmasMummy said:



			Someone further back posted an example - 2 saddles the same - - one broken one not.  Swap them about saying that the broken saddle is the good one and scam them basically.  SO you end up with an expensive saddle, and the refund for said expensive saddle. 

Folk have done stranger things...
		
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But that wouldnt work here as the saddles have serial numbers on


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## ester (16 September 2014)

^^ this


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## EmmasMummy (16 September 2014)

webble said:



			But that wouldnt work here as the saddles have serial numbers on
		
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 This is true...and we do not know if Buyer has provided pic of serial number to seller. 


Hopefully OP will be back and post the pics as promised - and has hopefully sent them to eBay as well!


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## ester (16 September 2014)

But buyer knows that OP has serial number for saddle so would get caught out if returning a different one.


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## Palindrome (16 September 2014)

please OP pick yourself up, it's not that much money in the grand scheme of things. Get the saddle back, check the condition and serial number, give full refund as promised if saddle is good and then sell at the price it's worth or find out what happened and don't give refund if saddle has been damaged.
Simple!
You sound like you might have depression or something else is not right, if you are feeling down overall go see your GP.


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## Sugar_and_Spice (16 September 2014)

EmmasMummy said:



			Did she open a dispute?  Have you sent ebay the pics and info you have to show that the saddle left you in a good state?  Also have you asked her to photograph the ID# for you etc, to make sure it is the same saddle?
		
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This is your next step OP if you receive a damaged saddle back. You defend her paypal dispute putting all facts, photos and your side of the story on there. Scan in a pic of the saddlers report too, if you can or take a photo of it or something. Often nothing is considered in these disputes other than what is shown/written in the dispute process, so give as much information and evidence as possible.

The buyer should post the saddle back by a trackable posting method to be sure it is delivered to you.

ETA the saddle dealer comment - its speculation. I have bought and in the past sold many saddles on eBay. If you'd looked at my feedback about 80% of my eBay activity was saddles. Sometimes whilst browsing I saw an absolute bargain and thought I could make a quick profit on that. But mostly I had different horses regularly and sold the saddles when they changed shape through youngsters growing up or horses getting really old, or because they'd lost or gained weight. Any that I found really comfy to ride in I kept, but most were sold when they'd served their purpose. It doesn't make me a saddle dealer, for the most part I was selling off personal items (saddles) which I no longer needed.


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## Cheshire Chestnut (16 September 2014)

OP, ebay doesn't always side with the buyer you know... I use it regulary to sell (low value) items. I was selling some shoes about 8 months ago. I stated they were a size 6 and the brand, I said I didn't accept returns and buyers buy at their own risk. Buyer won them for £16, plus £4 postage. 

Buyer contacted me asking if she could return the shoes and I said no, I don't accept returns. I presumed they didn't fit. So she went about it from a different angle and claimed they were damaged (which doesn't matter if you state you don't accept returns or not). She then opened a case against me claiming the shoes were damaged. she provided a photo of the shoes, with a big scuff on one side of one of them. She had cleverly taken the photo from the only angle I hadn't provided a photo of on the orgional listing. 

I, like you, had photos of the shoes (from all angles) before I placed them on ebay. I responded to the case and provided my photos as proof, along with an explantion that the shoes were free from marks and damage when I listed them. I have 100% feedback on my ebay too, as a seller as well as a buyer. Ebay sided with me and she was told the case was closed - she was not to get a refund, return and was not allowed to leave me feedback. 

Think you need to open a case with ebay yourself. Don't just persume they'll side with her - ebay do their best to protect everyone, no matter if you're the buyer or the seller - they listen and take into account the whole story and the facts. 

I do have to agree with the others though in that your post has come across very aggressive. If you want ebay to side with you, you will have to put forward a professional, calm and factual account - not name calling and tantrum throwing. I know you're angry but you won't get anywhere unless you fight your corner factfully.


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## Sugar_and_Spice (16 September 2014)

Palindrome said:



			please OP pick yourself up, it's not that much money in the grand scheme of things. Get the saddle back, check the condition and serial number, give full refund as promised if saddle is good and then sell at the price it's worth or find out what happened and don't give refund if saddle has been damaged.
Simple!
You sound like you might have depression or something else is not right, if you are feeling down overall go see your GP.
		
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I hate to sound rude here but you've clearly never been truly skint. Losing that amount of money really can be the end of the world to a skint person. We don't know the OPs personal circunstances. In the past I've sold stuff to pay the rent and would not have been able to pay back a few hundred pounds at a rate of one pound a week, never mind find it immediately.

ETA its not up to OP if she refunds or not, paypal will decide whether to believe buyer or seller based on no more than the info given during the dispute process. It is entirely possible that paypal would force seller to refund even if saddle has been deliberately damaged. They have done such things in the past to people. They don't carry out additional investigations, just listen to both sides of the story and decide who they believe.


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## bakewell (16 September 2014)

As a scenario. Buyer receives saddle which is damaged (possibly through transit). They open a case as it's not a simple refund given the item has clearly suffered damage. That's not them being a scammer; it's perfectly reasonable. 
If they didn't want the saddle a straight forward refund is posted as one of the conditions of sale. They could merely return it for a full refund. Again, totally reasonable.

Incidentally, either way the buyer will still be out of pocket for the return of the saddle by paypal's requirements that they send it tracked at their own expense. 

I realise the first post was made in haste and perhaps anger, and that sometimes text does not do justice to subtleties of speech. Having said that, if I were the buyer, and either of the scenarios I outlined applied, I would be absolutely livid should this thread come to light. And there is ample information to identify the transaction. The OP makes some fairly libelous statements if that is the case. As the buyer I would copy the thread to paypal in my dispute. Paypal take abusive communication seriously in their assessments. 
Likewise offering to disseminate the buyers name so that others may avoid her is a bit off before an impartial assessment by paypal. 

OP I understand that sometimes tight finances can have a cumulative effect on the shortness of patience, and I have surely made some stupid decisions I regret myself where money is concerned. However I think you need to try and set aside any emotion when dealing with this issue if you are to have any hope of a positive outcome. I also think you need to consider what you want to happen in a best case scenario. 

Buyer keeps saddle, positive feedback for everyone and you keep the money is not looking at all likely and you need to accept that with good grace. 

As others have said it may be that the best chance of compensation for what looks to now be a useless saddle is through the courier company. For this to happen you will need the assistance of your buyer. So put your feelings to one side and rebuild that bridge.

If you genuinely feel, when the dust has settled that you have been scammed, *and you have clear evidence to support this* you then have the right to pursue the buyer for fraud.


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## Palindrome (16 September 2014)

Sugar_and_Spice said:



			I hate to sound rude here but you've clearly never been truly skint. Losing that amount of money really can be the end of the world to a skint person. We don't know the OPs personal circunstances. In the past I've sold stuff to pay the rent and would not have been able to pay back a few hundred pounds at a rate of one pound a week, never mind find it immediately.

ETA its not up to OP if she refunds or not, paypal will decide whether to believe buyer or seller based on no more than the info given during the dispute process. It is entirely possible that paypal would force seller to refund even if saddle has been deliberately damaged. They have done such things in the past to people. They don't carry out additional investigations, just listen to both sides of the story and decide who they believe.
		
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I guess yes and no, I have been skint to the point of having to eat only ramen noodles for a week ($1 buys you a big pack of them in the US) but didn't have a horse or any dependent then fortunately and had just the money to pay the rent. But OP doesn't have to give the money now and hasn't even seen the saddle yet.


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## ester (16 September 2014)

I have to say usually as a buyer if the photos show a black coloured looked after saddle and it turned up not looking black it would be usual to open a not as described case and the seller could then take it up with the courier with their proof photos - and photos of the box it arrive in if possible.


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## EmmasMummy (16 September 2014)

Cheshire Chestnut said:



			OP, ebay doesn't always side with the buyer you know... I use it regulary to sell (low value) items. I was selling some shoes about 8 months ago. I stated they were a size 6 and the brand, I said I didn't accept returns and buyers buy at their own risk. Buyer won them for £16, plus £4 postage. 

Buyer contacted me asking if she could return the shoes and I said no, I don't accept returns. I presumed they didn't fit. So she went about it from a different angle and claimed they were damaged (which doesn't matter if you state you don't accept returns or not). She then opened a case against me claiming the shoes were damaged. she provided a photo of the shoes, with a big scuff on one side of one of them. She had cleverly taken the photo from the only angle I hadn't provided a photo of on the orgional listing. 

I, like you, had photos of the shoes (from all angles) before I placed them on ebay. I responded to the case and provided my photos as proof, along with an explantion that the shoes were free from marks and damage when I listed them. I have 100% feedback on my ebay too, as a seller as well as a buyer. Ebay sided with me and she was told the case was closed - she was not to get a refund, return and was not allowed to leave me feedback. 

Think you need to open a case with ebay yourself. Don't just persume they'll side with her - ebay do their best to protect everyone, no matter if you're the buyer or the seller - they listen and take into account the whole story and the facts. 

I do have to agree with the others though in that your post has come across very aggressive. If you want ebay to side with you, you will have to put forward a professional, calm and factual account - not name calling and tantrum throwing. I know you're angry but you won't get anywhere unless you fight your corner factfully.
		
Click to expand...


OH had something similar when selling his gun parts..guy claimed no delivery - Oh was like "It was sent by recorded delivery and I have your signature - SEE" so the guy kept coming back with different excuses each time and OH sent the proof the guy was at it - pics of the specs when he said it was wrong part, pics of the condition when the guy said it was broken (and couldn't provide pics of said broken part).  He kept pushing the case out and out and as he hadnt paid OH was out of pocket....guy wanted refund AND to keep part.  OH spoke to eBay and when they reviewed everything they took the money from the guy some how and gave to OH, and the guy got a strike or something and wasnt allowed to leave feedback - but OH could leave for the buyer!


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## AmieeT (16 September 2014)

OP, I've just read all the way through this post- and you haven't replied to the questions asking if you've contacted eBay- Have you?

I know that you have put that you except returns, but if she HAS damaged it like you suspect, then CONTACT THEM!!




			If you suspect that a buyer is abusing the managed returns process, contact them through Messages in My eBay (to keep a record of the conversation) and try to resolve the issue. If you still suspect buyer abuse, report a returns issue to us through the Returns section of My eBay.
		
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Possibly contact PayPal too- they have phonelines and from experience, I know them to be very helpful. Explain the situation, and that you have a saddler report proving it to be as described. 

Ax


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## fatpiggy (16 September 2014)

I feel really sorry for the OP, it is potentially alot of money to lose.  I don't have a horse any more so am quids in,but I would still baulk at losing that much.    Let's see what the buyer comes up with first.  I am a regular Ebayer but only as a buyer and have never had any problems, plus as I collect alot of the time, I've met some of the the sellers and they have all been really nice people.  But looking at various forums including this one, Ebay does attract some very dishonest people from the horse world and I'm afraid I wouldn't ever sell anything worth more than £50 on it that was horse related.  I have some lovely rugs to sell (I bought rugs from Ebay  previously, no problem at all) but am just not prepared to take the risk with Ebay.  I'd actually rather donate them to a local sanctuary than have some slimeball get their paws on them dishonestly.  Sad but true.  OP take a deep breath and have a plan B ready if the buyer does seem to be trying it on.  I'd be surprised if they actually damaged the saddle out of spite though, simply because it is true that Ebay may well find in their favour (it usually seems to unfortunately) and then they have something of no real value, which you are probably right and doesn't fit their horse.  Don't forget that a saddler can sort out many problems.


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## Queenbee (16 September 2014)

webble said:



			But that wouldnt work here as the saddles have serial numbers on
		
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No, I agree, it was me who posted that example, it was purely to explain how a scam could work, but before op confirmed it had a serial number.

OP i fully sympathise that this is very distressing, but the bottom line is that the saddle is damaged... by who is not exactly the issue at this point.  what I would be doing first is the following:

1: requesting seller to describe the state of the packaging upon reciept, was it delivered, did the courier leave it outside somewhere it could have been rained on???
2.  Getting in touch with ebay, explain your concerns, that it could have been damaged in transit, that it may be the purchaser, that you are not going back on your refund terms but that you would like some time to investigate first.
3. get in touch with oz, creme de menthe, ask for a reputable saddler in the purchasers area, ask the seller to take the saddle to the saddler for a professional appraisal and confirmation of the serial number (explain this to ebay).
Once you have that, then you can start to make accusations, with a factual base.  at the moment, you are blaming the purchaser, you blamed her even before you saw pics... you have no idea who or what caused this damage as yet.


And yes, a very good point, why would someone buy a saddle, ruin it just because it didnt fit and return for a refund when they would have to pay postage?  it does not add up.  there is more to this than meets the eye and to get some resolution you need to dig a little, not into sellers background but into the state of saddle.  Until a saddler had confirmed that serial number I would not accept the return... if they confirm it, I would be wanting to establish the state of the packaging, if damaged... take the courier on, if not, go to ebay about the purchaser.


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## ester (16 September 2014)

Fwiw I also think you should be polite when conversing with the buyer about this, they could well be just as upset at having spent £400 on a saddle that isn't what they expected and completely not to blame.


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## RaposadeGengibre (16 September 2014)

ester said:



			I still don't understand how it is for the buyers benefit to damage an item and have to pay return postage for it.
		
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If the item not as described, the seller pays for return postage now.


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## Fides (16 September 2014)

RaposadeGengibre said:



			If the item not as described, the seller pays for return postage now.
		
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This. I received a pair of shoes (allegedly worn twice) they had a very obvious split to the top. In the old days I would have had to pay postage and return them to get a refund. Now I just notified the seller I was opening a dispute and gave them the option of having the them back or not giving me a postage refund and me just binning the shoes. They chose to refund me for the shoes but not the postage and I just binned them as they were no good to wear.


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## Copperpot (16 September 2014)

And didn't the OP say that the buyer wasn't aware she had said she would accept returns to start with? So maybe the saddle didn't fit and the buyer deliberately damaged it so she could get her money back.


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## ester (16 September 2014)

hmmm, ebay have just asked me to pay the return postage as a buyer.


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## OldNag (16 September 2014)

ester said:



			hmmm, ebay have just asked me to pay the return postage as a buyer.
		
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I had to do that recently. Even though seller gave me a refund (item not fit for purpose) they didn't refund my postage. Blooming annoying. 

OP hope your saddle arrives back undamaged.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

The buyer was unaware of my 14 day return policy - it was me that made her aware of it AFTER she wrecked my saddle - ebay have already refunded her + cost to return despite my policy being buyer to return. Saddle should arrive today & that's when I shall open a case against her & issue a small claim as I am now £700 out of pocket! That's what I bloody well paid for it 8 weeks ago!

As for people bringing up I'm lucky to refund her & still eat, how dare you.  I am living in a derelict house & have been bathing my baby for 6 months in a sink as we had no bath. Only just been able to afford to put one in. Also, have a lpg cooker we can't afford to have put in at this p


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Present time so please don't lecture me that I can afford to lose the money,  I CANT!  Money being paid to her off of credit cards!


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Ps I didn't have to tell her about the 14 day return policy & regretting doing so &#128544;


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## MissTyc (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			The buyer was unaware of my 14 day return policy - it was me that made her aware of it AFTER she wrecked my saddle - ebay have already refunded her + cost to return despite my policy being buyer to return. Saddle should arrive today & that's when I shall open a case against her & issue a small claim as I am now £700 out of pocket! That's what I bloody well paid for it 8 weeks ago!
		
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I don't think you can claim £700 as that wasn't your contract with her, however it's absolutely worth small claims action. Even if you lose it will cost you little and you'll at least have tried. With all the photos you have, you stand a good chance of winning the balance of probability. However, remember she may not pay you back, even if you win ... or she may agree a ridiculous repayment plan with the court. But a win will def make you feel better!


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## EmmasMummy (17 September 2014)

Bit **** they have refunded her before you have item back. They aren't meant to do that.....


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

I don't understand when/why you notified her of your 14 days return policy when she was claiming the item was SNAD. Also I'm still confused by the assumption that the buyer damaged the saddle rather than it being damaged in transit?

Did you actually ever speak to eBay/PayPal like many of us suggested? Just seems odd they'd side with the buyer when you had so much supporting evidence to show the saddle wasn't damaged when sent.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

I have contacted ebay several times but need the saddle back to show them what she has ms done to it & if damaged in transit/ box split why didn't she claim that?


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## *hic* (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			The buyer was unaware of my 14 day return policy - it was me that made her aware of it AFTER she wrecked my saddle - ebay have already refunded her + cost to return despite my policy being buyer to return. Saddle should arrive today & that's when I shall open a case against her & issue a small claim as I am now £700 out of pocket! That's what I bloody well paid for it 8 weeks ago!

As for people bringing up I'm lucky to refund her & still eat, how dare you.  I am living in a derelict house & have been bathing my baby for 6 months in a sink as we had no bath. Only just been able to afford to put one in. Also, have a lpg cooker we can't afford to have put in at this p
		
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Apart from your story having more holes in than a colander you just lost any sympathy from me. If you have a derelict house and no bath and a baby what on earth would make you spend £700 on a saddle!  I could understand if you'd said that you were selling because you desperately needed to get a bath and cooker put in but you've spent the money on another saddle which you wanted so badly that you took a £200 drop on a saddle you'd got advertised.


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## smellsofhorse (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I have contacted ebay several times but need the saddle back to show them what she has ms done to it & if damaged in transit/ box split why didn't she claim that?
		
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I though buyer had added pictures showing damage?
So eBay would see those, you need to add your evidence to show it wasn't damaged.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			Apart from your story having more holes in than a colander you just lost any sympathy from me. If you have a derelict house and no bath and a baby what on earth would make you spend £700 on a saddle!  I could understand if you'd said that you were selling because you desperately needed to get a bath and cooker put in but you've spent the money on another saddle which you wanted so badly that you took a £200 drop on a saddle you'd got advertised.
		
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This.


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

smellsofhorse said:



			I though buyer had added pictures showing damage?
So eBay would see those, you need to add your evidence to show it wasn't damaged.
		
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This. Really confused by this thread. It shouldn't be down to you to prove the buyer/courier has damaged the saddle. It should be down to the buyer to prove it wasn't as described and you to counter that with the photos you have from before the saddle was sent. Then eBay would make their decision. Well at least that's what's always happened when I've been in such situations.


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

GG2B said:



			I don't understand when/why you notified her of your 14 days return policy when she was claiming the item was SNAD. Also I'm still confused by the assumption that the buyer damaged the saddle rather than it being damaged in transit?

Did you actually ever speak to eBay/PayPal like many of us suggested? Just seems odd they'd side with the buyer when you had so much supporting evidence to show the saddle wasn't damaged when sent.
		
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Yep, must say a lot of this is starting to confuse me now



coralwings20 said:



			I have contacted ebay several times but need the saddle back to show them what she has ms done to it & if damaged in transit/ box split why didn't she claim that?
		
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No, again, at this point you DO NOT KNOW she has caused the damage.  You are making assumptions, did you even ask her about the state of the packaging?


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			Apart from your story having more holes in than a colander you just lost any sympathy from me. If you have a derelict house and no bath and a baby what on earth would make you spend £700 on a saddle!  I could understand if you'd said that you were selling because you desperately needed to get a bath and cooker put in but you've spent the money on another saddle which you wanted so badly that you took a £200 drop on a saddle you'd got advertised.
		
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Oh god, op . I'm sorry but this is just not logical.  Completely agree with JA on this.


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

GG2B said:



			This. Really confused by this thread. It shouldn't be down to you to prove the buyer/courier has damaged the saddle. It should be down to the buyer to prove it wasn't as described and you to counter that with the photos you have from before the saddle was sent. Then eBay would make their decision. Well at least that's what's always happened when I've been in such situations.
		
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But the buyer has posted photos to ebay... The only thing that hasn't been established as far as I can see was the state of the packaging when the saddle arrived, and whether the damaged saddle pictured is indeed definitely the same saddle, only the serial number will confirm this, as op has confirmed that buyer confirmed the serial number but has not confirmed whether she has seen a clear picture showing both the damage and the serial number in one shot.

I don't even know why op has said the buyer didn't even know about the returns policy before she told her after the complaint was lodged...  What did op expect to gain from this did op expect buyer to say "oh if I knew that I never would have damaged it!"? The fact is if I purchased something from ebay with a fourteen day return policy and it arrived damaged or not as described, policy or not I would want to log this with ebay, otherwise I could return it and the seller could kick off that it was not returned in the condition it was sent in.... Then it's a whole can of worms backwards!


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## ester (17 September 2014)

I still want to know what ebays response to the OPs photos (which were also on the listing) and saddler's report before sending it.


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## Sugar_and_Spice (17 September 2014)

OP you sound like you maybe don't understand eBay, though many of us have tried to explain. Unless the rules have changed drastically, there is *one* dispute process. Your buyer opened it, in this case it was an "item not as described" claim. That was your chance to put your evidence across. Whether you did that or not, if eBay have refunded her it means they have made their decision. AFAIK there are no further options for you claiming against her on eBay. 

It always used to be "item not received" or "item not as described" on the buyers part, or "non-paying bidder" on the sellers part. Does anyone know is there a new dispute process now?


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## Sugar_and_Spice (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			The buyer was unaware of my 14 day return policy - it was me that made her aware of it AFTER she wrecked my saddle - ebay have already refunded her + cost to return despite my policy being buyer to return. Saddle should arrive today & that's when I shall open a case against her & issue a small claim as I am now £700 out of pocket! That's what I bloody well paid for it 8 weeks ago!

As for people bringing up I'm lucky to refund her & still eat, how dare you.  I am living in a derelict house & have been bathing my baby for 6 months in a sink as we had no bath. Only just been able to afford to put one in. Also, have a lpg cooker we can't afford to have put in at this p
		
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What on earth is this mad rant about? :confused3: I've followed this whole thread and unless I've missed something nobody has said you're lucky to refund her and still eat?! I understand your upset at the damaged saddle and the forced refund, but you haven't lost 700 pounds through this eBay sale: it was you who chose to buy the saddle in the first place despite your circumstances, you who take a loss on the sale price, you who chose to get a saddlers report, and of course you had to pay to post it out. You cant blame the buyer for any of that! You're 400 pounds (I think it was) out of pocket on the eBay sale. I'm another who doesn't understand why you bought the saddle in the first place TBH.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

This is the saddle I sold:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2tdssjd83suuvb5/gggrrr.jpg?dl=0

Saddle being returned:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ij2s1jcsmjb3zt6/gggrrrrrr.jpg?dl=0


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			This is the saddle I sold:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2tdssjd83suuvb5/gggrrr.jpg?dl=0

Saddle being returned:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ij2s1jcsmjb3zt6/gggrrrrrr.jpg?dl=0

Click to expand...

You can't go off photos like that.  They are from different angles, in completely different lighting, with the flash on in the 'after' photo, so the colour may well look very different.  

But in any case, I echo what others have said.  It doesn't sound as if you have helped your own case whatsoever and you just keep repeating how hard done by you are without doing much about it.


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			But the buyer has posted photos to ebay... The only thing that hasn't been established as far as I can see was the state of the packaging when the saddle arrived, and whether the damaged saddle pictured is indeed definitely the same saddle, only the serial number will confirm this, as op has confirmed that buyer confirmed the serial number but has not confirmed whether she has seen a clear picture showing both the damage and the serial number in one shot.

I don't even know why op has said the buyer didn't even know about the returns policy before she told her after the complaint was lodged...  What did op expect to gain from this did op expect buyer to say "oh if I knew that I never would have damaged it!"? The fact is if I purchased something from ebay with a fourteen day return policy and it arrived damaged or not as described, policy or not I would want to log this with ebay, otherwise I could return it and the seller could kick off that it was not returned in the condition it was sent in.... Then it's a whole can of worms backwards!
		
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Ah sorry, I know the buyer posted pics, I was just reiterating to the OP that I didn't understand why she was saying that eBay had said she would have to prove the buyer had damaged the saddle once it has been returned. Just all seems very odd and not the usual way for ebay to deal with things based on personal experiences. Then again, as I mentioned before I can't imagine why the logical assumption would be that buyer had damaged it rather than damage in transit. 

OP, in answer to your question I have no idea what the buyer initially said to you so can't comment on why they didn't say that the packaging had been damaged. I certainly would have mentioned if the box it arrived in was damaged but it doesn't sound like much would have swayed you from your opinion that the buyer was a scammer anyway. On a side note, if I had bought a saddle on ebay and then found out it wasn't suitable for my horse for whatever reason I would have checked whether the seller accepted returns before taking the drastic action of damaging the saddle in case ebay did indeed side with the seller leaving me with a damaged saddle.


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## conniegirl (17 September 2014)

I think you are being overdramatic OP.
putting aside the holes in your story the Damage doesnt look that bad. 
The first photo doesnt work at all but on the second it looks like a few scratches and a slightly ligter seat which can happen.
Get the tree checked by a saddler and the marks buffed out (which is possible if you have a good saddler) and resell it.


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## Wagtail (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			This is the saddle I sold:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2tdssjd83suuvb5/gggrrr.jpg?dl=0

Saddle being returned:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ij2s1jcsmjb3zt6/gggrrrrrr.jpg?dl=0

Click to expand...

She has a saddle with a price tag on in the background. As someone else has said, did she send a pic showing the discolouration and the serial number?

Loads of black saddles have that discolouration. They are not ready for the skip! Looks like it could be a different saddle, especially as the buyer obviously trades in saddles.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

conniegirl said:



			I think you are being overdramatic OP.
putting aside the holes in your story the Damage doesnt look that bad. 
The first photo doesnt work at all but on the second it looks like a few scratches and a slightly ligter seat which can happen.
Get the tree checked by a saddler and the marks buffed out (which is possible if you have a good saddler) and resell it.
		
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Yes agree.  Tbh the second photo just looks like a typical discolouration of a saddle which takes place over time, certainly not over a few days.


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			You can't go off photos like that.  They are from different angles, in completely different lighting, with the flash on in the 'after' photo, so the colour may well look very different.  

But in any case, I echo what others have said.  It doesn't sound as if you have helped your own case whatsoever and you just keep repeating how hard done by you are without doing much about it.
		
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Agree with the above it's not a great comparison pic, but also don't see what the buyer could have done to cause the saddle to look like that in just a few days. To me it just looks like standard ageing of a well used saddle.


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## hairycob (17 September 2014)

So have you, as several people have suggested, actually phoned up & spoken to someone at ebay fir advice?


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

GG2B said:



			Agree with the above it's not a great comparison pic, but also don't see what the buyer could have done to cause the saddle to look like that in just a few days. To me it just looks like standard ageing of a well used saddle.
		
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My strong guess would be not very much at all.  It looks simply like a common discolouration of a black saddle which occurs from wear and tear over time.


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

GG2B said:



			Just all seems very odd and not the usual way for ebay to deal with things based on personal experiences. Then again, as I mentioned before I can't imagine why the logical assumption would be that buyer had damaged it rather than damage in transit. 

 .
		
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I completely agree


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## ester (17 September 2014)

I agree (with moomin, typed too slow!), and not like any sort of malicious act.


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## ester (17 September 2014)

I also thought the saddle looked more worn/possibly discoloured on the other pic which you used on the ebay listing.


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## hairycob (17 September 2014)

Ok, just loooked at the pics & can't see how the saddle is ruined at all. Just looks like a normal used saddle. Before pic does not show the seat which is the bit that fades.


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

The one thing I would say in favour of the OP is at a guess I would say it does appear to be an older saddle than the one she sent, but then again the discolouration could look a whole lot worse due to the pic being taken with a flash. Did they ever send you a pic showing the discolouration and the serial number?

OP do you have a pic of the saddle from above like the one they buyer sent? Would be a lot easier to compare that way.


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

1. Different lighting, different angles... Not comparison photos
2. Saddle being sent back has not been damaged, it's just faded, this couldn't be caused deliberately.  It's general wear and tear.
3. HAVE YOU SEEN a picture showing serial number AND damage in the same photo???
4. It is possible that this may well not be the same saddle and seller is hoping you will just give up, but she has not caused that discoloration, it's general use that causes that!!!!!


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

This saddle would be item 151410876113 currently listed on ebay yes? Relisted with a buy it now of £475?
I assume since you are using your original photos there is no actual damage and that you are not personally trying to mislead any new buyers....
Hoist by your own petard much?!


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

Maybe I've missed something here.  If  you know the serial number OP, and the 'discoloured' (or more like just faded with use) saddle is sent back and is that very saddle, then how on earth could she have scammed you and made money herself intentionally?  Even if she damaged it (I really would love to know how someone would cause a typical 'faded' saddle look though within a few days), then it's just tough cookies isn't it? The hazards of selling through ebay.  Unless you can prove she did it, then I really don't see what you can do.

I must admit, given your financial position (baby having to be bathed in kitchen sink etc etc), I am slightly flabbergasted that someone would decide to buy a £700 saddle without having the fit checked properly in the first place, nevermind then selling it on for £400 on Ebay of all places...


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## el_Snowflakes (17 September 2014)

OP it might be a blessing that you accidentally allowed returns as you are likely to get saddle back however if a scammer was to claim the saddle was discoloured & you weren't offering refunds she may be inclined to discolour it in order to send it back. Get the saddle back & take it up with eBay & put it down to experience.

I once sold a pair of expensive lightweight stirrup irons on eBay, they were In perfect condition when they left me but buyer said they were damaged. As I had stated no returns she took it up with eBay who have her a full refund & she got to keep the item!! 

No skin off my nose as I still got paid, but surely this just encourages people for be dishonest?! I don't think id ever but or sell anything of value on eBay- too many pitfalls.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

bakewell said:



			This saddle would be item 151410876113 currently listed on ebay yes? Relisted with a buy it now of £475?
I assume since you are using your original photos there is no actual damage and that you are not personally trying to mislead any new buyers....
Hoist by your own petard much?!
		
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Oh dear.


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## ester (17 September 2014)

original listing, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Albion-SL...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## ester (17 September 2014)

bakewell said:



			This saddle would be item 151410876113 currently listed on ebay yes? Relisted with a buy it now of £475?
I assume since you are using your original photos there is no actual damage and that you are not personally trying to mislead any new buyers....
Hoist by your own petard much?!
		
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Oh, wow.


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## biccie1 (17 September 2014)

The first photo looks "over" polished (as you might do to cover / blend in some discolouration) and at a different angle / lighting etc. And the second (apart from the angle / lighting) could just be that polish has been removed so you can see the true state of the saddle. Not saying the OP did this as, I believe, she has not used the saddle so it could have been from when she bought it. It looks like wear and tear and I can't imagine how the buyer could have done that in a few days, other than by simply uncovering what was already there But either way the new buyer did not receive what she believed she was paying for so should get her money back.

I bought a saddle on preloved a few months back, luckily I insisted on it being a PayPal purchase so I got the buyer protection. As when the saddle arrived it was a completely different model from that advertised, so would not have ever fit (I knew exactly what I needed so was buying accordingly). The seller's initial response was "tough, you'll have to sell it on. That's the risk when you buy saddles online, that they don't fit". I knew it would fit _if _it was the correct model as I knew exactly what I needed. PayPal, of course, sided with me and I got a full refund but she wasn't happy as she had also spent the money and thought I should have to sell it on to try to reclaim my money.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

Will await with interest the OP's response..


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## Wagtail (17 September 2014)

Different sellers - same saddle. I am so confused. It is not being relisted by the original seller (the OP). Is the buyer now trying to sell the saddle at a profit after having got a refund on it?


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## Wagtail (17 September 2014)

So buyer will send wrong saddle back having received the refund and sell the original one at a profit? I'm so confused...


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Different sellers - same saddle. I am so confused. It is not being relisted by the original seller (the OP). Is the buyer now trying to sell the saddle at a profit after having got a refund on it?
		
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Aye, from 3 miles east of the original seller/ OP. You'd go and pick it up rather than pay £40 postage right.
Says to me a mate/ family selling it to avoid the link.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

I relisted it hoping it would come back in the state I listed it in firstly but nope, it's not so removing it & have a saddlers report stating no discolouration. &#128557;


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## Wagtail (17 September 2014)

bakewell said:



			Aye, from 3 miles east of the original seller/ OP. You'd go and pick it up rather than pay £40 postage right.
Says to me a mate/ family selling it to avoid the link.
		
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This just gets stranger...


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

Wagtail said:



			So buyer will send wrong saddle back having received the refund and sell the original one at a profit? I'm so confused...
		
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They wouldn't be able to do this though, if the OP has the serial number of the original saddle.  Doesn't make sense the whole thing.  I don't see how the buyer could possibly have scammed the OP.


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## ester (17 September 2014)

me too bakewell.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I relisted it hoping it would come back in the state I listed it in firstly but nope, it's not so removing it & have a saddlers report stating no discolouration. &#65533;&#65533;
		
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Where is the saddle now?

I smell cow turd..


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I relisted it hoping it would come back in the state I listed it in firstly but nope, it's not so removing it & have a saddlers report stating no discolouration. &#55357;&#56877;
		
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*You* relisted it?
Do you have multiple accounts, for selling items not in your possession? Isn't that a bit...... scammy.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

By the way it is listed on my ebay as hubby has run out of llistings. Removing it now as not worth much & need new photos :-(


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

Would love for OP to confirm whether the person now selling the saddle is the original buyer. Also find it odd whoever is selling the saddle would welcome viewings if it doesn't look like it does in the original pics. So confused.


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## Wagtail (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I relisted it hoping it would come back in the state I listed it in firstly but nope, it's not so removing it & have a saddlers report stating no discolouration. &#55357;&#56877;
		
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If what you say is try, OP, then the only way that could happen is if the buyer sends you the wrong saddle back as that is not the kind of damage that can be deliberately caused in a short space of time. So for about the fifth time of asking, do you have a picture of the discolouration and serial number?


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Erm, we both have an ebay account? What's the problem with that?


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## lottiepony (17 September 2014)

This thread is just epic fantastic reading keeping me entertained and HHOers at their detective best!


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## Tiddlypom (17 September 2014)

lottiepony said:



			This thread is just epic fantastic reading keeping me entertained and HHOers at their detective best! 

Click to expand...

Me too!


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Erm, we both have an ebay account? What's the problem with that?
		
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Oh I dunno.... fraudulently listing items, asking people to pay for it in advance of you possibly receiving it back, in a different condition. I mean really I could go on but you're quite adept at digging the hole without any input.


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## ester (17 September 2014)

I find it odd that someone would get a saddlers report and then write such a brief description, not even mentioning saddlers report for their item. I have written longer descriptions for £5 items! 

Basically OP this is a ridiculous situation, I think that you polished the saddle up before it went to the saddler (hence report) and sent it on hoping that would be fine but buyer has checked more carefully and is totally legit in wanting to return saddle as a not described and you to send postage back. I think you could actually argue that was normal wear and tear on a black saddle but that would be ebay's call and you don't seem to have said anything to them- likely just going to give it a spit and a polish and send it off again.


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

bakewell said:



			Oh I dunno.... fraudulently listing items, asking people to pay for it in advance of you possibly receiving it back, in a different condition. I mean really I could go on but you're quite adept at digging the hole without any input.
		
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It does seem odd you would relist it the day after you've come on here to complain that the buyer deliberately damaged the saddle without seeing the damage in person first.


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## zangels (17 September 2014)

I bought a saddle from ebay that the seller described as excellent condition, when it arrived it was scuffed and had a hole in the leather and had paint on it.I took photos as soon as I unwrapped it and sent them to ebay with a screen shot of the seller stating it was excellent condition with no damage. Ebay sided with the seller and I didn't get a refund, I lost out financially and am stuck with a worthless saddle. Ebay don't always side with the buyer.


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## ester (17 September 2014)

I'm just not sure why we had to hear about it all.

OP you do plenty of selling on ebay, you know how it works.


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## WelshD (17 September 2014)

OP if you plan to relist it then I would include more pictures or you risk the chances of the same thing happening again. Your OH has multiple feedbacks for not being clear on item condition and you really cant afford to get similar comments on your ebay profile or people will start avoiding your listings. Good luck with the resale.


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## sam_m (17 September 2014)

I have read all 19 pages, and am quite honestly flabbergasted by the OPs actions and tone.

I recently sold my pram on ebay and posted up to the limit of photos allowed to ensure all wear and tear was shown (and so I had proof item was as described), the pram have a price tag of £150 so why the hell would you not post up to the limit of photos for a saddle that has recently been valued at £600?! 

Something to me does not sit right with this whole story.


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## foxy1 (17 September 2014)

ester said:



			Basically OP this is a ridiculous situation, I think that you polished the saddle up before it went to the saddler (hence report) and sent it on hoping that would be fine but buyer has checked more carefully and is totally legit in wanting to return saddle as a not described and you to send postage back. I think you could actually argue that was normal wear and tear on a black saddle but that would be ebay's call and you don't seem to have said anything to them- likely just going to give it a spit and a polish and send it off again.
		
Click to expand...

This.
Totally agree not as described, you should be relisting this saddle with a lot more photo's, an awful lot of feedback on your account saying items not as described (even positive feedback)


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

WelshD said:



			OP if you plan to relist it then I would include more pictures or you risk the chances of the same thing happening again. Your OH has multiple feedbacks for not being clear on item condition and you really cant afford to get similar comments on your ebay profile or people will start avoiding your listings. Good luck with the resale.
		
Click to expand...

The feedback I can see shows 100% positive? Or am I looking in the wrong place?


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## WelshD (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			The feedback I can see shows 100% positive? Or am I looking in the wrong place?
		
Click to expand...

On the original listing the seller was the OP's OH. Link at top of page 16 or 17 of this thread I think


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			The feedback I can see shows 100% positive? Or am I looking in the wrong place?
		
Click to expand...

The OP has been using both her and her husband's ebay account.

Current listing - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151410876113?ssPageName=STRK:MEBOFFX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1432.l2649
Original listing - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Albion-SL...2047675.l2557&clk_rvr_id=697218859062&afsrc=1

I believe it's the husband's account that has a lot of not as described feedback.


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## DJ (17 September 2014)

ester said:



			original listing, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Albion-SL...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Click to expand...


The second picture in both the the listings, to me, looks like the discolouration was already there on the seat to the back of the saddle (top left of the picture has that gold tinge to it), the first pic then looks like it has been cleaned/waxed/polished to try and hide this. I can`t see how it`s a scam, if the serial numbers match, then it`s the same saddle ... and there is nothing that could cause that level of discolouration in 24 hrs. So I think the buyer is in the right here. 

I also don`t understand why it has been listed, twice, when you don`t have it back in your care yet? (one live listing with offers on it, one ended listing)


And just to top it off you then admit to spend how much on a saddle!!! when your house is derelict and you don`t have a bath etc? !!! ... this thread, and OP, have completely baffled me? !!


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

GG2B said:



			The OP has been using both her and her husband's ebay account.

Current listing - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151410876113?ssPageName=STRK:MEBOFFX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1432.l2649
Original listing - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Albion-SL...2047675.l2557&clk_rvr_id=697218859062&afsrc=1

I believe it's the husband's account that has a lot of not as described feedback.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, am I getting the wrong end of the stick - but is this the OH's ebay account..selling this saddle?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Tho...?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid


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## DJ (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Ok, am I getting the wrong end of the stick - but is this the OH's ebay account..selling this saddle?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Tho...?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid

Click to expand...

Yes, it would appear so.


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Ok, am I getting the wrong end of the stick - but is this the OH's ebay account..selling this saddle?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Tho...?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid

Click to expand...

Yup appears to be!


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

I think I'm in the twilight zone!!!

Funnily enough, the listing is still on ebay... Despite op saying she was going to take the listing down over an hr ago.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

GG2B said:



			Yup appears to be!
		
Click to expand...

Right.  That seller appears to have this comment made on 15th of this month about an item - Item damaged with torn edge . Described as good condition  bit disappointed
15 Sep, 2014.

I can only imagine that is a separate item to the saddle we are on about.  How odd that OP appears to have sold two items not as described this month.


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## ester (17 September 2014)

that was a child seat toy or similar  - but yes we now know they are experienced ebayers, they know how it works, they probably tried to pull a fast one. 

DCJace that is my view on the condition of the saddle when sold, there is only one listing as the 'sold' one is the person who is now sending it back.


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## Beausmate (17 September 2014)

ester said:



			original listing, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Albion-SL...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Click to expand...

I looked that up yesterday, wasn't sure if it was the one, as the OP said they had 100% feedback.....


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## DJ (17 September 2014)

ester said:



			DCJace that is my view on the condition of the saddle when sold.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm in complete agreement with you. I only quoted your original post as it had the link in to the pictures on ebay ... 

I find this whole thread mind boggling ... especially the part about the house


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## Nicnac (17 September 2014)

Who needs mystery novels when you have HHO?  A fascinating lunch break for me today.  Thanks all.  Back to work.


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## Elbie (17 September 2014)

Right...just caught up with this!

OP - why did you relist the item before you had received it back, using the old photos when it was most likely the saddle would be reurned in the state photographed by the original buyer? (or possible you wouldn't even receive your saddle back if they were pulling a scam?)


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## hairycob (17 September 2014)

So, by OPs own admission she is seriously overstretched financially & lives in a derelict house. That's not a good situation to be in even before you bring a baby into the scene. Despite this OP states in post 31 that her HORSES & DOGS (plural) are all insured and has been spending £700 on a saddle. Her posts have been very aggressive in tone.
OP - you have far more serious issues going on in your life than this ebay transaction. Take a step back & look at the wider issues and get help soon.


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## Beausmate (17 September 2014)

I don't see any 'disgusting brown stuff' in the buyer's pic, just normal fading and a few scuffs that could have happened in transit.

What is this whole thread for?  Emotional advertising?


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

ester said:



			that was a child seat toy or similar  - but yes we now know they are experienced ebayers, they know how it works, they probably tried to pull a fast one. 

DCJace that is my view on the condition of the saddle when sold, there is only one listing as the 'sold' one is the person who is now sending it back.
		
Click to expand...

My point was that they already have another sale this month which they have sold not as described. Two in one month..


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

I am selling my dressage saddle to pay oh back for this saddle & haven't removed it yet as out having a rare hack as oh is off of work. Difficult riding & typing!


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## ester (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			My point was that they already have another sale this month which they have sold not as described. Two in one month..
		
Click to expand...

Oh yes I completely agree.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I am selling my dressage saddle to pay oh back for this saddle & haven't removed it yet as out having a rare hack as oh is off of work. Difficult riding & typing!
		
Click to expand...

I am still stumped as to why anyone would relist a saddle which they don't actually have in their possession still, nevermind one which they hadn't at that point seen what 'damage' had been done.


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I am still stumped as to why anyone would relist a saddle which they don't actually have in their possession still, nevermind one which they hadn't at that point seen what 'damage' had been done.
		
Click to expand...




coralwings20 said:



			innocent & honest sellers like me

&#55357;&#56864;
		
Click to expand...

 Whilst this is such low hanging fruit and I should be working.... a very flexible and wide-ranging interpretation of the meaning of these words perhaps?


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Jeez - my financial situation is no one's business but mine - I was just saying I couldn't afford to refund her as bought a dressage saddle which is now listed on ebay to gather funds to pay her back. 

The saddler report was brief as she only came to check the air in it & told me he preferred the high withered thorowgood saddles hence buying a dressage one as that's what I mainly do  I can assure you that that discolouration wasn't there when sent or why would I have paid £700 for it & have it valued at £600? 

I have had two offers on the saddle which I have ignored until I get the saddle back which was supposed to be today!

Back from my lovely hack and will log into ebay once my baby is in bed as she liked to help when I'm computing lol.


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## hairycob (17 September 2014)

OP - I have come to the conclusion that you are an attention seeking little madam. I bet nothing you have told us about your situation is true. I bet the buyer has been nothing but polite & you are just throwing a strop because you have to refund her.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Jeez - my financial situation is no one's business but mine - I was just saying I couldn't afford to refund her as bought a dressage saddle which is now listed on ebay to gather funds to pay her back. 

The saddler report was brief as she only came to check the air in it & told me he preferred the high withered thorowgood saddles hence buying a dressage one as that's what I mainly do  I can assure you that that discolouration wasn't there when sent or why would I have paid £700 for it & have it valued at £600? 

I have had two offers on the saddle which I have ignored until I get the saddle back which was supposed to be today!

Back from my lovely hack and will log into ebay once my baby is in bed as she liked to help when I'm computing lol.
		
Click to expand...

I thought you were selling the original saddle because it was too long for your horse? You said you needed a 17" saddle, not a 17.5" saddle.  Yet the saddle you say you replaced it with, and are now selling to gather funds to refund her with, is a 17.5"?


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Jeez - my financial situation is no one's business but mine - I was just saying I couldn't afford to refund her as bought a dressage saddle which is now listed on ebay to gather funds to pay her back. 

The saddler report was brief as she only came to check the air in it & told me he preferred the high withered thorowgood saddles hence buying a dressage one as that's what I mainly do  I can assure you that that discolouration wasn't there when sent or why would I have paid £700 for it & have it valued at £600? 

I have had two offers on the saddle which I have ignored until I get the saddle back which was supposed to be today!

Back from my lovely hack and will log into ebay once my baby is in bed as she liked to help when I'm computing lol.
		
Click to expand...




Moomin1 said:



			I thought you were selling the original saddle because it was too long for your horse? You said you needed a 17" saddle, not a 17.5" saddle.  Yet the saddle you say you replaced it with, and are now selling to gather funds to refund her with, is a 17.5"?
		
Click to expand...


Moreover, you listed the wintec before you even knew you had to pay her back, you also allow a fourteen day return policy on THAT saddle, but not on your new listing of the Albion.  Op, this is all really very odd.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

Just read the other feedback comments on that account.  Dear me, OP's OH does appear to sell a lot of stuff which isn't quite as described.  In fact, there's two that say the product was unusable.  

This thread smacks of someone who isn't quite right...in many ways.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

can admin lock/delete this as posters are becoming personal and bitchy. Thanks.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			can admin lock/delete this as posters are becoming personal and bitchy. Thanks.
		
Click to expand...

How predictable.

Oh dear.


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## Sebastian (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			can admin lock/delete this as posters are becoming personal and bitchy. Thanks.
		
Click to expand...

Where and who is being personal and bitchy? I think you're confused now that people have investigated and the truth is a bitter pill to swallow. I hope that this thread stays here, so that everyone can see what they are dealing with, before they buy anything from you.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			This is the saddle I sold:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2tdssjd83suuvb5/gggrrr.jpg?dl=0

Saddle being returned:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ij2s1jcsmjb3zt6/gggrrrrrr.jpg?dl=0

Click to expand...

Mm, these links don't seem to work anymore.


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## Capriole (17 September 2014)

Sebastian said:



			Where and who is being personal and bitchy?
		
Click to expand...

From what I've read, that would be the OP, from the opening post onwards :wink3:


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## RunToEarth (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			can admin lock/delete this as posters are becoming personal and bitchy. Thanks.
		
Click to expand...

I think when you are moonlighting as a nightmare eBay seller, it is best not to start threads on here about nightmare eBay buyers...whether they are a nightmare or not. Karma, eh?


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

Capriole said:



			From what I've read, that would be the OP, from the opening post onwards :wink3:
		
Click to expand...

Quite. I think it's pretty funny actually that OP says that, yet repeatedly calls someone a personal and bitchy name throughout the thread.


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## hairycob (17 September 2014)

Cinsidering tbe title of the thread it's a little rich. It seems I have a mutual poi t of contact with the OP.  How is the search for a pony for your toddler going?


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## Sebastian (17 September 2014)

Capriole said:



			From what I've read, that would be the OP, from the opening post onwards :wink3:
		
Click to expand...

That was my thought, but I didn't want to be the one to say it first.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

hairycob said:



			Cinsidering tbe title of the thread it's a little rich. It seems I have a mutual poi t of contact with the OP.  How is the search for a pony for your toddler going?
		
Click to expand...

Oh dear...it gets worse.  I hope she gets one 'as described'.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

I'm not getting a pony for my toddler now she can have a sit on my Arab as with winter coming, hay is going to cost a fortune + I have a pony out on loan should she need one on the future.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

So how do we know each other hairy cob or are you going to hide behind your h&h name?  If we are friends on Fb, block me immediately


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## hairycob (17 September 2014)

I said we have a mutual poiint of contact. Never met you & have no wish to, but the horse world is surprisingly small.


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## YorksG (17 September 2014)

What a mess of half truths and what appears to be rubbish!
If the OP bought the 'derelict'  house after she had the child and finds that she can't afford to fit her cooker, but finds she has 700 quid to spend on  a saddle, then she is irresponsible. If she bought the house and then became pregnant, can't afford to fit the cooker but spends money on a saddle, then she is irresponsible. If she posts all this on a forum and then expects people to not comment, then she is foolish! I feel quite sorry for the child in all this, as apparently he/she is low on the priorities.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Let's hope our paths never cross then ah?! As your posts haven't been pleasant from the start  

As for  my derelict house, for those who are interested, upstairs is done & bath plumbed in so lil one no longer baths in the sink lol - we have a shower room downstairs that she hates. But we still need a working toilet & sink up there + tiling. Downstairs is laminate flooring so lucky. New kitchen put in but again cooker not plumbed in or tiled. I have stripped all the wallpaper & hubby is decorating. My mil has offered to have this work done for us.

We are using the dining room as a living room as will cost too much oil to heat the actual living room so it's a games room - outside we have fenced off a safe secure area toddler can play in  

Yes, I spent £700 on a saddle for my horse but after spending £100 in 2 weeks on adjusting his back, what's the point in scrimping on a saddle?


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Quite. I think it's pretty funny actually that OP says that, yet repeatedly calls someone a personal and bitchy name throughout the thread.
		
Click to expand...

Ironic isn't it?!


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

We can afford to have the cooker down but has to be by an lpg engineer & have been let down so many times.


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

YorksG said:



			What a mess of half truths and what appears to be rubbish!
If the OP bought the 'derelict'  house after she had the child and finds that she can't afford to fit her cooker, but finds she has 700 quid to spend on  a saddle, then she is irresponsible. If she bought the house and then became pregnant, can't afford to fit the cooker but spends money on a saddle, then she is irresponsible. If she posts all this on a forum and then expects people to not comment, then she is foolish! I feel quite sorry for the child in all this, as apparently he/she is low on the priorities. 

Click to expand...


Yeah, really low on the list of priorities,  I mean let's face it she isn't going to buy him/her a pony...


Sorry couldn't resist


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

But I do have a microwave cooker combination


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Let's hope our paths never cross then ah?! As your posts haven't been pleasant from the start  

As for  my derelict house, for those who are interested, upstairs is done & bath plumbed in so lil one no longer baths in the sink lol - we have a shower room downstairs that she hates. But we still need a working toilet & sink up there + tiling. Downstairs is laminate flooring so lucky. New kitchen put in but again cooker not plumbed in or tiled. I have stripped all the wallpaper & hubby is decorating. My mil has offered to have this work done for us.

We are using the dining room as a living room as will cost too much oil to heat the actual living room so it's a games room - outside we have fenced off a safe secure area toddler can play in  

Yes, I spent £700 on a saddle for my horse but after spending £100 in 2 weeks on adjusting his back, what's the point in scrimping on a saddle?
		
Click to expand...

Mm, did his back lengthen in that time? Because you seem to have bought two of the same sized saddle..


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			We can afford to have the cooker down but has to be by an lpg engineer & have been let down so many times.
		
Click to expand...

You just can't get honest service providers these days, can you?


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Do not slag off my mothering skills please as that's just nasty.


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			We can afford to have the cooker down but has to be by an lpg engineer & have been let down so many times.
		
Click to expand...

You'd think you'd have time to take down the listing for the albion saddle to avoid misleading people. It's got to take less keystrokes than these posts.


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			You just can't get honest service providers these days, can you?
		
Click to expand...

Moomin, if I was drinking my cup of tea when I read that I would have projectile vomited down my nose!


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## Capriole (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			[snip] Also, have a lpg cooker we can't afford to have put in at this p
		
Click to expand...




coralwings20 said:



			We can afford to have the cooker down but has to be by an lpg engineer & have been let down so many times.
		
Click to expand...

Oh?


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			You just can't get honest service providers these days, can you?
		
Click to expand...

find me one in notts who actually shows up!


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## YorksG (17 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Yeah, really low on the list of priorities,  I mean let's face it she isn't going to buy him/her a pony...


Sorry couldn't resist 

Click to expand...

I think that is the only sensible bit of the whole lash up tbh


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## Sebastian (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			We can afford to have the cooker down but has to be by an lpg engineer & have been let down so many times.
		
Click to expand...

So everything is great now and you even have a bath, but you still can't afford to refund £400 to the "b@itch"? I am confused. You were pleading poverty yesterday and that you don't have £400, but now all is ok and you can afford to own (at least) two horses and spend £700 on a saddle? This is quite confusing to me.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

I've just explained mil is paying (sigh)


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

YorksG said:



			I think that is the only sensible bit of the whole lash up tbh 

Click to expand...

I know!  Honestly my brain is spinning... This really is a *head desk* moment!


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Yes, I have my 29 year old who I have owned for 14 years & my riding horse,  that ok?


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I've just explained mil is paying (sigh)
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I thought you said you were selling your new saddle (the 'shorter' one which happens to be the same size) in order to raise funds to pay the refund?


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## FestiveFuzz (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Do not slag off my mothering skills please as that's just nasty.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone has so much as questioned your mothering skills, just your priorities.


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## Dave's Mam (17 September 2014)

I am lost.


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## Copperpot (17 September 2014)

I think she means mil is paying for the house stuff.


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## slumdog (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I'm not getting a pony for my toddler now she can have a sit on my Arab as with winter coming, hay is going to cost a fortune + I have a pony out on loan should she need one on the future.
		
Click to expand...

This Arab? http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?659551-What-Is-Wrong-With-His-Back-End
Did you get to the bottom of his muscle wastage?


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Yes I did & he is fit & well  looking amazing & won both his dressage  tests on Sunday 

& I don't mean to be rude but he an ISH - looks nothing like an Arab!


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

So, are you removing the 'damaged' saddle from Ebay then?


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## slumdog (17 September 2014)

I didn't look at the pictures other than one of his back end and didn't realise you had multiple horses. But I stand corrected.


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## SatansLittleHelper (17 September 2014)

Sad I know but I have just read this from start to finish and I'm dumbfounded :/
Nowt so queer as folk


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## hairycob (17 September 2014)

I think by "unpleasant" you mean "not falling over with sympathy when I tell an unconvincing story slagging off what appears to be an innocent ebay buyer".


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## Jonesy (17 September 2014)

bakewell said:



			Oh I dunno.... fraudulently listing items, asking people to pay for it in advance of you possibly receiving it back, in a different condition. I mean really I could go on but you're quite adept at digging the hole without any input.
		
Click to expand...

erm no! you can have multiple accounts on ebay.  I have 2 accounts, 1 I buy with and the other I sell. It is not against ebay rules to do this and if you look on ebay forums you will note that plenty of other ebay members do this.

It is only against ebay rules if you start bidding up (shill bidding) your item from another account you hold, which is quite frequent on ebay.  However, thankfully, they are quite quick to pick up on this and multiple accounts having the same ISP address.


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## Fun Times (17 September 2014)

Honestly, this is the second thread in 24 hours on which my only possible response can be: "what the heck is going on"? I can't tell whether I am starting to get some form of dementia and therefore nothing is making sense anymore or whether the world has gone bonkers. Am secretly hoping for the latter tho.


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

Jonesy said:



			erm no! you can have multiple accounts on ebay.  I have 2 accounts, 1 I buy with and the other I sell. It is not against ebay rules to do this and if you look on ebay forums you will note that plenty of other ebay members do this.

It is only against ebay rules if you start bidding up (shill bidding) your item from another account you hold, which is quite frequent on ebay.  However, thankfully, they are quite quick to pick up on this and multiple accounts having the same ISP address.
		
Click to expand...

Yeeeeees.... I am not saying the multiple accounts is a bad thing. 

To clarify:
I am saying using a second account so as not to link to the first in order to create a listing resulting in taking offers on an item not currently in your possession; not in the condition stated in the advert on the second account; currently in a way, an item that does not exist as it has yet to be returned; whilst making possibly fraudulent and close to libelous claims against the original purchaser, is not really on/ legal/ in line with ebay's policies/ something an honest seller would do/ something you can expect to be called out on etc.

I think the OP sought to use the pseudo-anonymity of the internet and e-commerce, got caught out and is now only fielding questions relating to perceived slights against her lifestyle choices rather than doing the right thing and taking the listing down, at the very least.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

I'm hoping to recieve saddle tomorrow to add different photos  as it counts against you removing a listing :-(


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I'm hoping to recieve saddle tomorrow to add different photos  as it counts against you removing a listing :-(
		
Click to expand...

Actually an error in listing and subsequent removal does not.
*However, perhaps it should count against you in this case*. What you have done is something potential purchasers may wish to use in evaluating your honesty and trustworthiness or lack thereof before parting with a significant chunk of cash and being denounced as a "conniving b!tch" on the internet.


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## cundlegreen (17 September 2014)

I've just come in from a long day's eventing, but this thread is far more riveting than the latest romance on my Kindle !!!
Next installment please......


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## Jonesy (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I'm hoping to recieve saddle tomorrow to add different photos  as it counts against you removing a listing :-(
		
Click to expand...

is this a new ebay rule?


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I'm hoping to recieve saddle tomorrow to add different photos  as it counts against you removing a listing :-(
		
Click to expand...

But what about the poor people who are currently watching the saddle and have put offers in?  They are under the false impression that they are viewing the saddle in the photos..


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## webble (17 September 2014)

If the buyer needs anything to back up her claim the craziness of this thread would be great for her to send to eBay


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## smellsofhorse (17 September 2014)

I have been keeping up to date with this thread.

I think I've got mad!
I'm so confused!


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## RaposadeGengibre (17 September 2014)

webble said:



			If the buyer needs anything to back up her claim the craziness of this thread would be great for her to send to eBay
		
Click to expand...

Craziness or not but I bet her saddle viewings are kicking the listing right on top of every other saddle...


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

RaposadeGengibre said:



			Craziness or not but I bet her saddle viewings are kicking the listing right on top of every other saddle...
		
Click to expand...

That is a very interesting point, if such a sophisticated marketing angle were being worked I must say I was completely taken in by the façade of ineptitude. Hats off!


----------



## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

I wouldn't be surprised if someone notifies ebay that she has listed a saddle she doesn't have in her possession and can't testify to its condition... Wouldn't be surprised at all... I only said earlier to another poster via pm it's so tempting to flag op up for what she is doing!


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

It has been removed??!!  So not sure what saddle you guys are looking at?!


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			It has been removed??!!  So not sure what saddle you guys are looking at?!
		
Click to expand...

Haha classic!  I have literally just watched it disappear in the last twenty minutes or so.  You are embarrassing yourself so much OP.

So predictable.


----------



## bakewell (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			It has been removed??!!  So not sure what saddle you guys are looking at?!
		
Click to expand...

About as tangible a saddle as the one you were trying to hawk.


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## Fides (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I'm hoping to recieve saddle tomorrow to add different photos  as it counts against you removing a listing :-(
		
Click to expand...




coralwings20 said:



			It has been removed??!!  So not sure what saddle you guys are looking at?!
		
Click to expand...

Liar liar pants on fire... For which post I am not sure - it's oh so confusin...


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

OP has removed the saddle - literally in the last twenty minutes.  Item listed as lost or broken...


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## Lead_changes (17 September 2014)

Well this has been highly entertaining!


----------



## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Haha classic!  I have literally just watched it disappear in the last twenty minutes or so.  You are embarrassing yourself so much OP.

So predictable.
		
Click to expand...

Yep me too


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

Lead_changes said:



			Well this has been highly entertaining!
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm, yeah what we going to do next... Oh I know, this is a perfect opportunity to remind everyone that there is a sticky in club house for SECRET SANTA... Since everyone is checking in on this thread... Pm me details to sign up...


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

"And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!"


----------



## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Hmmm, yeah what we going to do next... Oh I know, this is a perfect opportunity to remind everyone that there is a sticky in club house for SECRET SANTA... Since everyone is checking in on this thread... Pm me details to sign up...
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps someone will get a saddle...


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## YorksG (17 September 2014)

The bit that I don't understand is why the OP began the thread in the first place!


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## Dave's Mam (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Perhaps someone will get a saddle...
		
Click to expand...

LOL


----------



## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Glad people find this funny.


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## Honey08 (17 September 2014)

All this thread needs now, for a grand finale, is the buyer to join in with their side of the story.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Glad people find this funny.
		
Click to expand...

What else would they find it?


----------



## ester (17 September 2014)

How else do you suggest people fine it OP? We are essentially completely baffled.


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## bakewell (17 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			What else would they find it?
		
Click to expand...

Well there's one person who could use it as a learning experience but in the absence of that I think it's totally fair for the rest of us to roll around guffawing.


----------



## Fides (17 September 2014)

Honey08 said:



			All this thread needs now, for a grand finale, is the buyer to join in with their side of the story.
		
Click to expand...

I've actually been watching waiting for just that!


----------



## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

Can administration remove please as it's turned nasty.


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## Dave's Mam (17 September 2014)

It started nasty.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Can administration remove please as it's turned nasty.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I'll bet it's turned nasty for you.  Must be horrible to be caught out like that.


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## coralwings20 (17 September 2014)

And I apologised but posters on here get a kick of hiding behind a a user  name being nasty - oh well, hardly going to lose any sleep over it  night all &#55357;&#56837;


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

Camilla's Aunty Em said:



			It started nasty.
		
Click to expand...

It certainly did!


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## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			And I apologised but posters on here get a kick of hiding behind a a user  name being nasty - oh well, hardly going to lose any sleep over it  night all &#65533;&#65533;
		
Click to expand...


My name is emily  I live in Helston in Cornwall... And I still stand by everything I've said.  I would happily provide my surname but to be fair... Secret Santa is coming up.


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			And I apologised but posters on here get a kick of hiding behind a a user  name being nasty - oh well, hardly going to lose any sleep over it  night all &#65533;&#65533;
		
Click to expand...

Yes, some people really can be horrible behind usernames can't they?  Calling people all sorts of vile names..


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## Moomin1 (17 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			My name is emily  I live in Helston in Cornwall... And I still stand by everything I've said.  I would happily provide my surname but to be fair... Secret Santa is coming up.
		
Click to expand...

Don't you want a surprise saddle for xmas? ;-)


----------



## Queenbee (17 September 2014)

Hell no... I got a really good one on ebay for £125 squid last month...  A really nice working hunter Jeffries, that had had additions of decent knee blocks added at a later date, great flocking, looked like new but was a fair age... Not even a mark from the stirrups...  I'm good for saddles now, but if anyone wants to help me identify the bridle I just lost in an ebay auction, that would be the best present ever!


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## Capriole (17 September 2014)

pm me the item number QB and I'll have a search.


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## doodle (17 September 2014)

I was me, I bought the saddle......only kidding.  I have read this thread with much amusement, filled in my otherwise boring evening, thanks all


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## hairycob (18 September 2014)

My name is Debbie by the way.  At first I thought you were a tantrummy teenager,  then a troll but wow you really are up there with shwmae & bespoke. Stop digging - it's a long way to Australia & you will wear yourself out.


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## OwnedbyJoe (18 September 2014)

Oy hairycob! I was quite enjoying the fact that I am a LONG way from all this nuttiness in Australia... Don't encourage OP to come here.


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## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

What exactly have I done wrong bar be nasty in first few posts & apologised for that but I didn't send the saddle looking like that. The thorowgood saddle has a slight curve at the back & my horse has a roach back and the other saddle just touched it. Being 5ft10,  not sure how I'd squeeze myself into a 17" hence saddler suggested the t4/t8. I didn't get the saddler out to value it but to check the air & even though it fitted him it must have touched part of his roach back as when I got in the saddle, it was clear he wasn't happy but it fit him a few months ago but he has built so much topline up, he needs his saddles checked every few months. Will post some upto date photos of him as he is looking good  xz


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## smellsofhorse (18 September 2014)

Everyone is confused.
You have come across as nasty, calling people names and making your you are hard done by and want lots of sympathy.

But you have done nothing to help yourself, been proactive or taken people up on their suggestions to help your case.

Maybe if you start from the beginning.
Being factual, include everything and no moaning accusation.

We might be able to figure it out and understand what has happened.


----------



## slumdog (18 September 2014)

Doesn't it take ages for eBay to close their case and refund? This all seems to have happened rather quickly.


----------



## FestiveFuzz (18 September 2014)

Yup it took 13 days for my case to be closed when the girth I won at a bargain price didn't arrive, even though the seller was unable to provide proof of postage.


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## Moomin1 (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			What exactly have I done wrong bar be nasty in first few posts & apologised for that but I didn't send the saddle looking like that. The thorowgood saddle has a slight curve at the back & my horse has a roach back and the other saddle just touched it. Being 5ft10,  not sure how I'd squeeze myself into a 17" hence saddler suggested the t4/t8. I didn't get the saddler out to value it but to check the air & even though it fitted him it must have touched part of his roach back as when I got in the saddle, it was clear he wasn't happy but it fit him a few months ago but he has built so much topline up, he needs his saddles checked every few months. Will post some upto date photos of him as he is looking good  xz
		
Click to expand...

You  may not have sent the saddle looking like that. My guess is the fading was covered up very well.


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## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

I have a receipt that I paid £700 not long ago - why on earth would I spend so much money on a faded old saddle? If it was that bad, why did the saddler value it at £600? It is kept indoors as no where secure to really put & was cleaned once a week for dressage competitions plus I love my tack looking immaculate  once I get the saddle get, I can compare photos (which are on ohs camera & my laptop doesn't have a card reader). Hence taking a few on my phone. I loved that saddle as the thorowgood high withered saddles hurt me between my legs (you know where I mean) & this saddle was amazing to ride in. Put me in the perfect position & my bum didn't move even when he spooked. 

I stupidly relisted it on my account hoping it would be returned in its original condition as my ohs account has sold up to its limit. I have removed it & will take it my saddler for her opinion before taking legal action/fighting through eBay.


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## FestiveFuzz (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I have a receipt that I paid £700 not long ago - why on earth would I spend so much money on a faded old saddle? If it was that bad, why did the saddler value it at £600? It is kept indoors as no where secure to really put & was cleaned once a week for dressage competitions plus I love my tack looking immaculate  once I get the saddle get, I can compare photos (which are on ohs camera & my laptop doesn't have a card reader). Hence taking a few on my phone. I loved that saddle as the thorowgood high withered saddles hurt me between my legs (you know where I mean) & this saddle was amazing to ride in. Put me in the perfect position & my bum didn't move even when he spooked. 

I stupidly relisted it on my account hoping it would be returned in its original condition as my ohs account has sold up to its limit. I have removed it & will take it my saddler for her opinion before taking legal action/fighting through eBay.
		
Click to expand...

Ok back to the question that has yet to be answered. Did the buyer send a pic of the damage showing the serial number?


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## bakewell (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I have a receipt that I paid £700 not long ago - why on earth would I spend so much money on a faded old saddle?
		
Click to expand...

Pattern of making rash decisions involving valuable purchases m'lud. Perhaps the person who sold it to you also covered up the fading. It's worth what someone wants to pay for it, so you created the £700 market value, effective as a one time only deal to you 


coralwings20 said:



			If it was that bad, why did the saddler value it at £600?
		
Click to expand...

A valuation for insurance purposes, which is the usual reason given for needing a valuation a receipt for that, is not the same as ebay second hand market value, it is the cost to replace like for like without having to search out the best deal.

Piffle excised. Suggest no more comments describing your day to day life or identifiers.



coralwings20 said:



			I have removed it & will take it my saddler for her opinion before taking legal action/fighting through eBay.
		
Click to expand...

I don't even know why bothering to offer advice but for god's sake don't do that. You will lose more money. You cannot win. You can't even argue your way out of the paper bag of an internet forum; you've managed to contradict your own evidence and we had only your word to go on. And in the unlikely event this ever made it to court your statements on this forum are going to land you in some serious trouble.
You are also going to start putting your saddler in an awkward position, so don't be surprised if she stops taking your calls if you continue.


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## Elbie (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I stupidly relisted it on my account hoping it would be returned in its original condition as my ohs account has sold up to its limit. I have removed it & will take it my saddler for her opinion before taking legal action/fighting through eBay.
		
Click to expand...

I just don't understand how you were hoping it was going to e returned in the original condition? The buyer says it is marked/faded, which you state wasn't the condition it was in when it left you and theysent pictures to prove it. So surely you are going to get a marked/faded saddle back or one that isn't actually your saddle.


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## *hic* (18 September 2014)

bakewell said:



			Pattern of making rash decisions involving valuable purchases m'lud. Perhaps the person who sold it to you also covered up the fading. It's worth what someone wants to pay for it, so you created the £700 market value, effective as a one time only deal to you 

A valuation for insurance purposes, which is the usual reason given for needing a valuation a receipt for that, is not the same as ebay second hand market value, it is the cost to replace like for like without having to search out the best deal.

Piffle excised. Suggest no more comments describing your day to day life or identifiers.


I don't even know why bothering to offer advice but for god's sake don't do that. You will lose more money. You cannot win. You can't even argue your way out of the paper bag of an internet forum; you've managed to contradict your own evidence and we had only your word to go on. And in the unlikely event this ever made it to court your statements on this forum are going to land you in some serious trouble.
You are also going to start putting your saddler in an awkward position, so don't be surprised if she stops taking your calls if you continue.
		
Click to expand...


This is one of the times when a like button is needed!


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## Jaffa (18 September 2014)

This user also has a history of 'Woe is me' sympathy searching on other forums too.


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## Moomin1 (18 September 2014)

Jaffa said:



			This user also has a history of 'Woe is me' sympathy searching on other forums too.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting.  Which forums?


----------



## *hic* (18 September 2014)

Jaffa said:



			This user also has a history of 'Woe is me' sympathy searching on other forums too.
		
Click to expand...


Really? Same user name or perhaps coralwhinge?


----------



## Jaffa (18 September 2014)

Same Username


----------



## bakewell (18 September 2014)

I wish we were allowed to hotlink to images of wild west posses after this revelation.


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## Red-1 (18 September 2014)

Jaffa said:



			Same Username
		
Click to expand...

I just did a quick google and only fond a youtube account.....


----------



## [59668] (18 September 2014)

Does any of this matter? Get some perspective. Everyone. Some poor guys have been beheaded this week. People are dying and starving. People are sick and in pain. None of this matters.


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## Fides (18 September 2014)

[59668] said:



			Does any of this matter? Get some perspective. Everyone. Some poor guys have been beheaded this week. People are dying and starving. People are sick and in pain. None of this matters.
		
Click to expand...

It is light relief from all of the horrors of the world. If you feel there are worse problems why do you feel the need to even comment? Totally pointless post adding nothing of any value to the thread


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## Capriole (18 September 2014)

Get a grip love, I think you're on the wrong forum.

Take a look at the threads on here and tell me 99% of it matters. It's a horse forum, it's not earth shattering world altering stuff on the whole...


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## thatsmygirl (18 September 2014)

There must be plenty of bored people around to want to dig into op's life. Other forum posts/YouTube account etc. sorry but I just think that's sad and bordering on stalking.


----------



## gembear (18 September 2014)

thatsmygirl said:



			There must be plenty of bored people around to want to dig into op's life. Other forum posts/YouTube account etc. sorry but I just think that's sad and bordering on stalking.
		
Click to expand...

not relating this to the OP or giving an opinion on this thread (have been reading from a distance and not sure what to make of it tbh) but I remember ages ago I bought what I thought was a 2nd hand designer bag off ebay for a fair amount of money. I've bought a designer bag online before and it worked out well (as in got the real thing).

However, when I got this bag it became obvious quickly that it was a fake. I emailed the seller and they apologized and said it was a gift and they believed it was real. Offered me a refund to return it, but they wanted it posted back first and I said no and maybe we were better going through ebay just to keep us both right (the seller just seemed a bit dodgy). 

Next thing the seller started stalking me on facebook, my blog, twitter etc and leaving or sending me nasty horrible comments and posting my full name and address everywhere. Needless to say it freaked the hell out of me and I reported to ebay, who blocked the seller (who also created new accounts constantly to message me through) and refunded me.

Awful experience and i've been cautious of ebay since.


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## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

Jeez talk about stalking me over a saddle post &#55357;&#56834; some of you need to get lives but I do feel honoured to have my very own stalkers - &#55357;&#56840; has made my day there are so many saddos about &#55357;&#56389;


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## Queenbee (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Jeez talk about stalking me over a saddle post &#65533;&#65533; some of you need to get lives but I do feel honoured to have my very own stalkers - &#65533;&#65533; has made my day there are so many saddos about &#65533;&#65533;
		
Click to expand...

Aren't there just


----------



## Wagtail (18 September 2014)

thatsmygirl said:



			There must be plenty of bored people around to want to dig into op's life. Other forum posts/YouTube account etc. sorry but I just think that's sad and bordering on stalking.
		
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with this. Regardless of who is wrong and who is right, it always gives me the creeps when people start with the unhealthy digging around.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (18 September 2014)

Capriole said:



			Get a grip love, I think you're on the wrong forum.

Take a look at the threads on here and tell me 99% of it matters. It's a horse forum, it's not earth shattering world altering stuff on the whole...

Click to expand...

99%!! 99%!!!! At least 99.9% surely?


----------



## Capriole (18 September 2014)

-



blazingsaddles said:



			99%!! 99%!!!! At least 99.9% surely?
		
Click to expand...


73.6% of all statistics are made up 


I was thinking along the lines of 100/99.9% at first then remembered all the serious stuff in Latest/Current News and I lopped a full percent off for good measure :wink3:


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## bakewell (18 September 2014)

I think the gripping drama presented by the OP is best enjoyed as a work of pure fiction. Any similarities to saddles, real or otherwise is purely co-incidental and an error in listing made by the cat.


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## Wagtail (18 September 2014)

HoofPrints87 said:



			[Content removed]
		
Click to expand...

No, that's your saddle.


----------



## Moomin1 (18 September 2014)

Wagtail said:



			No, that's your saddle.
		
Click to expand...

Eh?


----------



## Capriole (18 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Eh?
		
Click to expand...

Reasonable assumption, first time new poster links to a random advert.

(eta, don't know if it is the same saddle or not being readvertised, but it's a reasonable assumption Wagtail made)


----------



## Tiddlypom (18 September 2014)

Capriole said:



			Reasonable assumption, first time new poster links to a random advert.

(eta, don't know if it is the same saddle or not being readvertised, but it's a reasonable assumption Wagtail made)
		
Click to expand...

This thread has gone well into the weird zone, so it's quite possible that an Albion saddle has metamorphosed into a Black Country saddle....


----------



## Capriole (18 September 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			This thread has gone well into the weird zone, so it's quite possible that an Albion saddle has metamorphosed into a Black Country saddle....
		
Click to expand...

Is it a different brand?  I wasn't about to click on a random link to check


----------



## Tiddlypom (18 September 2014)

Capriole said:



			Is it a different brand?  I wasn't about to click on a random link to check 

Click to expand...

I'm at a loose end....


----------



## Wagtail (18 September 2014)

Capriole said:



			Is it a different brand?  I wasn't about to click on a random link to check 

Click to expand...

Yes, different brand, size and price.


----------



## Capriole (18 September 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			I'm at a loose end....
		
Click to expand...

Oh me too   That's not the reason. I'm wary about clicking on links sometimes...god knows what's at the other end.


----------



## Tiddlypom (18 September 2014)

Capriole said:



			Oh me too   That's not the reason. I'm wary about clicking on links sometimes...god knows what's at the other end.
		
Click to expand...

Very wise, I should be more careful . And then of course there was the Hello Kitty infestation, I really should have learned my lesson by now...


----------



## Capriole (18 September 2014)

Wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility Hoofprints, the way this thread has gone.  Not as described....part deux?


----------



## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

Please remove my name & yes, it was a saddle I sold ages ago - am getting freaked out the amount of people stalking me now!


----------



## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

How many times can I report this to admit before they lock this thread? Next my sodding address will be posted on here!


----------



## bakewell (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			How many times can I report this to admit before they lock this thread? Next my sodding address will be posted on here!
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps in the meantime you could *politely* ask hoofprints to edit their posts to remove your name? That seems a reasonable request.


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## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

Bakewe&#314;l - already done so let's see if she has enough respect to do so!


----------



## Queenbee (18 September 2014)

Advertising a black Albion saddle, may or may not have scuff marks, may or may not be polished, may or may not be faded, may or may not be Albion, may or may not be black... May or may be leather, may or may not exist... Valued at 7million, 7k, £700, £70, 7pence, and 7cola bottles... May exchange for a pony... Pm me if you are interested...


Sorry op, couldn't resist


----------



## bakewell (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Bakewe&#314;l - already done so let's see if she has enough respect to do so!
		
Click to expand...

You catch more flies with honey...


----------



## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

Any other personal details people want?


----------



## Queenbee (18 September 2014)

HoofPrints87 said:



			[Content removed]
		
Click to expand...

There is a cynical part of me wondering if op has created another account simply  to post personal details so this thread gets pulled without jeopardising her own account further...  Good job admin can check ip addresses...


----------



## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

Bakewe&#314;l - PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME! many thanks.


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## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			There is a cynical part of me wondering if op has created another account simply  to post personal details so this thread gets pulled without jeopardising her own account further...  Good job admin can check ip addresses... 

Click to expand...

I just want my name removed!


----------



## bakewell (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Bakewe&#314;l - PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME! many thanks.
		
Click to expand...

Ummm. Say what now?


----------



## Moomin1 (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Please remove my name & yes, it was a saddle I sold ages ago - am getting freaked out the amount of people stalking me now!
		
Click to expand...

You do get through a lot of saddles don't you?  And horses who have 'topline problems'..


----------



## Queenbee (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Bakewe&#314;l - PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME! many thanks.
		
Click to expand...


Eh???? Bakewell has nothing to do with it!!!


----------



## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			You do get through a lot of saddles don't you?  And horses who have 'topline problems'..
		
Click to expand...


The saddle was from my old horse & my present horse has back issues - I've only ever sold one saddle before this incident si can't see how you have come to that conclusion? ! 

Again,  bakewe&#314;l, I am politely asking you to remove my name.


----------



## Queenbee (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			The saddle was from my old horse & my present horse has back issues - I've only ever sold one saddle before this incident si can't see how you have come to that conclusion? ! 

Again,  bakewe&#314;l, I am politely asking you to remove my name.
		
Click to expand...

Again!!!!!!
Bakewell has nothing to do with it... Actually LOOK at the persons username before you accuse!!!!


----------



## Elbie (18 September 2014)

bakewell said:



			You catch more flies with honey...
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I don't think OP was particularly rude in the way she asked for her name to be removed.

And I think it is a bit out of order for someone else to post OP's name on a public forum. This thread is all getting a bit too personal now. I don't really agree with the OP relisting the saddle (as I have commented in earlier threads) but I think things are going a bit too far now


----------



## bakewell (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Again,  bakewe&#314;l, I am politely asking you to remove my name.
		
Click to expand...

Only the original poster, which isn't me as IP addresses and style of writing will clearly demonstrate, can edit their post. So you need to ask *hoofprints*, who is the poster of the information, to kindly edit it out.


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## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

Sorry bakewe&#314;l - Hoofprint87 please remove my name ASAP


----------



## bakewell (18 September 2014)

Elbie said:



			To be fair, I don't think OP was particularly rude in the way she asked for her name to be removed.

And I think it is a bit out of order for someone else to post OP's name on a public forum. This thread is all getting a bit too personal now. I don't really agree with the OP relisting the saddle (as I have commented in earlier threads) but I think things are going a bit too far now
		
Click to expand...

I agree her name should not be on here. However asking tends to get more than demanding, swearing or name calling. Which could be the alternative.


----------



## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

I have sent two polite pms to bakewe&#314;l and still my name is in the public domain which is out of order.


----------



## Capriole (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I have sent two polite pms to bakewe&#314;l and still my name is in the public domain which is out of order.
		
Click to expand...

Stop sending them to Bakewell!


I doubt the person who posted the details can change it themselves by this time.


----------



## bakewell (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I have sent two polite pms to bakewe&#314;l and still my name is in the public domain which is out of order.
		
Click to expand...

a) no you haven't, though you may have sent one to hoofprints. With a bit of luck.
b) don't worry I definitely have PM'd hoofprints. Bear in mind a new user might find the PM system a bit confusing at first but I'm sure s/he'll see the messages soon.


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## Elbie (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			i have sent two polite pms to bakewe&#314;l and still my name is in the public domain which is out of order.
		
Click to expand...

hoofprints!!!


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## Fides (18 September 2014)

bakewell said:



			You catch more flies with honey...
		
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You catch even more with poo


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## gembear (18 September 2014)

The OP has not come across well throughout this thread, and I do not condone how she's acted.

However, it has got way too personal now and is verging on bullying.


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## bakewell (18 September 2014)

gembear said:



			The OP has not come across well throughout this thread, and I do not condone how she's acted.

However, it has got way too personal now and is verging on bullying.
		
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I think that is trying to be remedied through redacting the sensitive information right now. Merely an error of judgement which the poster is trying to resolve.


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## charlie76 (18 September 2014)

I think this has got totally out of hand and whether right or wrong if I was the op I would be upset with the way this has gone. Think its time to draw a line.


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## coralwings20 (18 September 2014)

Hoofprint87 is a new member & probably an old livery of mine I've pissed off in the past so well done for getting your own back.


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## Tally-lah (18 September 2014)

This is really horrible. I fail to see what the op has done to warrant this level of personal attack.


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## YorksG (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Hoofprint87 is a new member & probably an old livery of mine I've pissed off in the past so well done for getting your own back.
		
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I don't think this information shows you in any better light!


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## YorksG (18 September 2014)

deleted as double posted somehow


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## Fides (18 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Hoofprint87 is a new member & probably an old livery of mine I've pissed off in the past so well done for getting your own back.
		
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And just as I was starting to feel sorry for you, you go and post something like that. Do you upset a lot of people in your life?


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## Dave's Mam (18 September 2014)

Dearie goodness.


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## Sebastian (18 September 2014)

Tally-lah said:



			This is really horrible. I fail to see what the op has done to warrant this level of personal attack.
		
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Apart from pulling obvious scams on eBay. I call it karma


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## FestiveFuzz (18 September 2014)

Wow I step away from the forum for one night and this happens.


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## Copperpot (19 September 2014)

charlie76 said:



			I think this has got totally out of hand and whether right or wrong if I was the op I would be upset with the way this has gone. Think its time to draw a line.
		
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I agree!


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

Of course I don't upset alot of people but I'm bound to have annoyed a few liveries with rules in the 5 years of running the business. Can't think who else would be vindictive enough to put my name on a public forum?!

Can all yard owners honestly say they've got on with every livery? We have had to ask a few to leave. & yes, 12 months later they still hold a grudge.

But this is becoming silly now & I'm certainly not an ebay scammer as you can see from my fb. I may have missed the odd defect but always email & partially refund.


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## stormyDcup (19 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			But I do have a microwave cooker combination 

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Oh oh oh, my ribs hurt. This is the best thread ever.


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## Moomin1 (19 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Of course I don't upset alot of people but I'm bound to have annoyed a few liveries with rules in the 5 years of running the business. Can't think who else would be vindictive enough to put my name on a public forum?!

Can all yard owners honestly say they've got on with every livery? We have had to ask a few to leave. & yes, 12 months later they still hold a grudge.

But this is becoming silly now & I'm certainly not an ebay scammer as you can see from my fb. I may have missed the odd defect but always email & partially refund.
		
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What can we see from your FB? Personally I haven't bothered to look.


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

stormyDcup said:



			Oh oh oh, my ribs hurt. This is the best thread ever.
		
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Even I'm starting to see the funny side  x


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			What can we see from your FB? Personally I haven't bothered to look.
		
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lots of other members have   anyway,  tottling off to get ready for the dreaded playgroup


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## Mia&Vin (19 September 2014)

This whole thread is making a drama out of nothing. Its should have been simple

- accept the return and prewarn ebay of her history
- take photos even before its out of the box and loads of condition
- ebay may refund her straight off as you will have the item back, dont be put of by this and appeal
- provide loads of pics and saddlers report etc
- rather than using online chat phone the dublin office (not the one abroad if you get them hang up and try again)

You may find that she gets her refund anyway but if she has damaged it you will be able to get yours back if you do it properly.

But just as a note for the future saddles can cost £15 to send not £40 and never argue with a buyer just accept the refund. Anything else and you risk them causing damage to get their money back. But always send high value items with a photographed stamp


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## FestiveFuzz (19 September 2014)

So back on track has the saddle arrived back yet?


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## WelshD (19 September 2014)

Mia&Vin said:



			- rather than using online chat phone the dublin office (not the one abroad if you get them hang up and try again)
		
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I also recommend this. Twice I have had problems and been lucky enough to get horsey Irish people when I have called which helped a great deal - eg One knew from my pics that the bridle I received clearly wasn't a Sabre one


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

Yes, it would've about £15 to send but they sting you on insurance for high value items :-( still no saddle back but she has put a reference number for the courier but still no saddle & I'm desperate to see what state it's in!


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## Frumpoon (19 September 2014)

FWIW I think the discolouration described is a sign of a high quality saddle - it's what naturally happens to vegetable dyed leather as it ages and you only use vegetable on the best quality hides, that's why a lot of older black albions have that golden yellow tinge


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

It gets stranger as received a text today saying the saddle will not be delivered until the 22nd of September?! Isn't ebay rules that goods have to be returned within 7 days?


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## *hic* (19 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			It gets stranger as received a text today saying the saddle will not be delivered until the 22nd of September?! Isn't ebay rules that goods have to be returned within 7 days?
		
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If it's seven days it will be seven WORKING days.


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

But why keep on changing the date of delivery? Getting fed up of waiting for a saddle that never turns up when she says it will.


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## *hic* (19 September 2014)

Go by what the tracking information says.


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## Sheep (19 September 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			Go by what the tracking information says.
		
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This - you can also try ringing the courier with the consignment number to check where it is.


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

Tracking says delivery on Monday but I have a message from buyer stating I would receive it on weds. She has now told me she is escalating this to ebay tomorrow but I haven't got the saddle back yet? I have messaged them informing them of this but what if they refund her & I don't even have the saddle back?


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## foxy1 (19 September 2014)

They won't refund her until she can show tracking information which proves saddle is delivered back to you.


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

So what is she escalating?


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## Queenbee (19 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			The buyer was unaware of my 14 day return policy - it was me that made her aware of it AFTER she wrecked my saddle - ebay have already refunded her + cost to return despite my policy being buyer to return. Saddle should arrive today & that's when I shall open a case against her & issue a small claim as I am now £700 out of pocket! That's what I bloody well paid for it 8 weeks ago!

As for people bringing up I'm lucky to refund her & still eat, how dare you.  I am living in a derelict house & have been bathing my baby for 6 months in a sink as we had no bath. Only just been able to afford to put one in. Also, have a lpg cooker we can't afford to have put in at this p
		
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coralwings20 said:



			Tracking says delivery on Monday but I have a message from buyer stating I would receive it on weds. She has now told me she is escalating this to ebay tomorrow but I haven't got the saddle back yet? I have messaged them informing them of this but what if they refund her & I don't even have the saddle back?
		
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coralwings20 said:



			So what is she escalating?
		
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Exactly?!


You say in one post she has already been refunded, then you say they haven't yet??

This is too much for my brain


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## bakewell (19 September 2014)

I believe paypal will be holding funds they have removed from the seller's account in escrow until the buyer provides the tracking evidence that the saddle has been returned. Then buyer is refunded. Otherwise either party could very well high tail it with the money and the saddle.

ETA: an "escalation" is a standard part of the paypal/ ebay dispute system whereby a person with a grievance can formally involve paypal's arbitration rather than try to sort it out amongst themselves within the framework provided.


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

Yes, sorry, she wasn't refunded, paypal have taken the money out of my paypal leaving me with a minus balance.  I had the saddle booked into an I dependant saddlery shop today so annoyed it never arrived plus I had to stay in most of the day waiting! 

If buyer has damaged saddle on purpose, as soon as she provides evidence that I have received it, will paypal automatically refund her despite the dispute?


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## bakewell (19 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Yes, sorry, she wasn't refunded, paypal have taken the money out of my paypal leaving me with a minus balance.  I had the saddle booked into an I dependant saddlery shop today so annoyed it never arrived plus I had to stay in most of the day waiting!
		
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Wait until you get the saddle before relisting/ booking it in anywhere/ swapping for three magic beans. Besides which I would say collecting it from the depot, filming the condition of the package as it's handed to you and opening it on film would be a very good piece of evidence. Fraud is serious business.



coralwings20 said:



			If buyer has damaged saddle on purpose, as soon as she provides evidence that I have received it, will paypal automatically refund her despite the dispute?
		
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Ahhhh but there's the crux, did you send a saddle as described and as depicted, and she then damaged it, even though you were going to refund her anyway.... or did she receive a saddle not as described and depicted and send it back. 
Or was it Professor Plum with a lead pipe in the library?


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

I sent the saddle as listed in my listing - the one she is sending back looks brown not black. Thanks - will video the opening of the box  great idea


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## Moomin1 (19 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I sent the saddle as listed in my listing - the one she is sending back looks brown not black. Thanks - will video the opening of the box  great idea 

Click to expand...

But if it is a different saddle, then you will know by the serial number.  So no problem.


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## coralwings20 (19 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			But if it is a different saddle, then you will know by the serial number.  So no problem.
		
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will paypal immediately refund her once pod is listed?


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## Moomin1 (19 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			will paypal immediately refund her once pod is listed?
		
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I have no idea, but if you get a saddle back, with a different serial number, simply provide proof of that to ebay.


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## EmmasMummy (19 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			will paypal immediately refund her once pod is listed?
		
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I believe you have to survey the goods and reply to her/eBay


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## hairycob (20 September 2014)

Have you actually spoken to ebay/sent them your photos as you have been advised many times right from the beginning? Surely they are the right people to be asking the questions of.


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## coralwings20 (20 September 2014)

Yes, I have sent the photos and saddlers brief report estimating saddle, what tree ect + seriel number & they got back to me saying they'd look into it but are very busy with complaints atm. Does ebay or paypal authorise refunds? I've always just allowed refunds/partial refund in all the years of selling so never been in a situation where I am adamant It's not the same saddle or has been tampered with. 

I don't normal argue with buyers but her photos show a disgusting brown saddle & mine is black with normal wear and tear for a saddle of its age.

Thanks in advance to the people who know how to deal with ebay/paypal complaints.  X


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## Moomin1 (20 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Yes, I have sent the photos and saddlers brief report estimating saddle, what tree ect + seriel number & they got back to me saying they'd look into it but are very busy with complaints atm. Does ebay or paypal authorise refunds? I've always just allowed refunds/partial refund in all the years of selling so never been in a situation where I am adamant It's not the same saddle or has been tampered with. 

I don't normal argue with buyers but her photos show a disgusting brown saddle & mine is black with normal wear and tear for a saddle of its age.

Thanks in advance to the people who know how to deal with ebay/paypal complaints.  X
		
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The photos show a black saddle which has faded with normal wear and tear.  Unless you can get proof that she somehow has miraculously caused this to happen then I doubt you can win any case if I'm honest.


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## FestiveFuzz (20 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			The photos show a black saddle which has faded with normal wear and tear.  Unless you can get proof that she somehow has miraculously caused this to happen then I doubt you can win any case if I'm honest.
		
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I think this is the crux of it and without pictures showing the front of the saddle before you sent it vs. how it's being returned I think you're going to struggle, particularly if the serial number matches. As myself and others have mentioned the discolouration shown in the pics would be hard to cause in a matter of days as it's just the standard fading that a well used saddle would get. I can't think how anyone could intentionally cause that.


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## *hic* (20 September 2014)

Whilst this has been very entertaining, I think that really you'd do well to take it to the ebay forums and get some advice from people who deal with this sort of thing day in and day out.


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## coralwings20 (20 September 2014)

Thanks guys - in the advert it described the saddle as normal wear & tear which is what you guys are saying it is?! It certainly wasn't sent like that. It is brown in her photos & black in mine!


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## coralwings20 (20 September 2014)

So how is it not as described?


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## Moomin1 (20 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Thanks guys - in the advert it described the saddle as normal wear & tear which is what you guys are saying it is?! It certainly wasn't sent like that. It is brown in her photos & black in mine!
		
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I'm struggling to see how you cannot understand this.  The photo of the saddle you say is 'damaged' shows nothing but normal discolouration which occurs with wear and tear over time to most black saddles.  The discolouration can't have possibly been caused by any intentional action over a few days.  

So IMO, either the saddle is a different saddle, or it was originally buffered up to appear a lot darker than it was.


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## marmalade76 (20 September 2014)

I see you have form for not describing things correctly, you listed a Weymouth as a Pelham three times..


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## Moomin1 (20 September 2014)

marmalade76 said:



			I see you have form for not describing things correctly, you listed a Weymouth as a Pelham three times..
		
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Yes OP's OH's Ebay feedback shows a number of items were not as described - mostly saying they were described as 'good condition', but were in fact 'damaged'.


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## marmalade76 (20 September 2014)

Obviously viewing their items through rose tinted glasses. I tend to go the other way, describe stuff as rough, tatty, old and well used. Still sell stuff well and have 100% and 5 out of 5 stars.


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## coralwings20 (20 September 2014)

marmalade76 said:



			I see you have form for not describing things correctly, you listed a Weymouth as a Pelham three times..
		
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Ops need to change that,  thanks.


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## Wagtail (20 September 2014)

OP, you seem to be hard of understanding. The saddle in the buyers photographs is not a horrible brown colour, it is a perfectly normal colour for a black saddle that has faded naturally. It has NOT been damaged by the buyer. That would be impossible. So that leaves two possibilities, either that the saddle was like that when she received it (or you had covered up the fading colour with black boot polish or similar), OR the buyer is sending you back a different saddle. However, you have repeatedly ignored calls from people on here asking if you have photos of the damage and the serial number and so one can only assume that you know it is the right saddle. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## coralwings20 (20 September 2014)

Have amended, you also have to remember that there are a lot of buyers out there who complain for the sake of a partial refund & if I refuse,  they leave bad fb. Partial refunds are a new scam and 50% of buyers try it on. I resold the bucas rug for more money & they were as happy as Larry - she wanted a partial refund which I refused as she got a bargin as it was & I paid her return postage. She still left me negative!  You can't please everyone x


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## Wagtail (20 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Have amended, you also have to remember that there are a lot of buyers out there who complain for the sake of a partial refund & if I refuse,  they leave bad fb. Partial refunds are a new scam and 50% of buyers try it on. I resold the bucas rug for more money & they were as happy as Larry - she wanted a partial refund which I refused as she got a bargin as it was & I paid her return postage. She still left me negative!  You can't please everyone x
		
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Really? 50% of buyers try to get a partial refund? Blimey. I've been really lucky then. I have sold around 40 equestrian items over the past couple of years and no one has requested a refund, either fully or partial. But then I post photos of all damage or scratches.


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## sychnant (20 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Partial refunds are a new scam and 50% of buyers try it on.
		
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Rubbish. I have never had anyone ask for a partial refund. I describe what I sell as honestly as I can, warts and all, with pictures from every angle. 

Do you have photos of the alleged damage?


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## Sugar_and_Spice (20 September 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			Whilst this has been very entertaining, I think that really you'd do well to take it to the ebay forums and get some advice from people who deal with this sort of thing day in and day out.
		
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That would be even more entertaining :biggrin3: . Which is maybe why the OP is on here.


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## marmalade76 (20 September 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Really? 50% of buyers try to get a partial refund? Blimey. I've been really lucky then. I have sold around 40 equestrian items over the past couple of years and no one has requested a refund, either fully or partial. But then I post photos of all damage or scratches.
		
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Same. Have also sold two saddles on there, both buyers were delighted.


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## *hic* (20 September 2014)

Sugar_and_Spice said:



			That would be even more entertaining :biggrin3: . Which is maybe why the OP is on here.
		
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:biggrin3:


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## foxy1 (20 September 2014)

I have sold more than 600 items on ebay and have never been asked for a partial refund. 
In the opening post it says the op took more than 60 photos of the saddle- can you post some photos of the seat area so the condition/colour can be seen?


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## bakewell (20 September 2014)

Fact is OP, you are going to sell the saddle again when you get it back.... your actions have already shown that. And I think you're going to try and sell it for the same ballpark figure. I also think you would not hesitate to gloss over (ha!) any imperfections, in both saddle and listing. 

By your own account half of your buyers (all independent unique purchasers) push for a partial refund; we also have the current problem of someone saying the item is so unlike the description they want a full refund; and listings (the bit, tho haven't seen this myself) currently live which are inaccurate. That's a lot of inaccuracy and bad feeling with one common denominator. You.

If the saddle returned to you is your saddle* and you wish to argue that the seller willfully damaged it**, and therefore take this up with ebay, you will need to demonstrate, convincingly***, that beyond reasonable doubt that was the course of events.
The question is, "which is most likely". 
Now it might not be the case, which is ok because no-ones going to die here, but I think the most likely is that you covered up the wear on the saddle to an extent that caused the buyer to assume the saddle was in better condition than it really was. That's ok, whoopsie poopsie, sometimes we all make mistakes. Relist it accurately, sell it for what it's worth. I think you got stung in the first instance of purchasing this saddle at £700. I'm sorry that happened but you can't keep passing the buck of misfortune in the hope that someone else literally pays for your mistake.

*serial number consistent
** even though she had no need to in order to secure a refund, by your stated terms and the ebay dispute system.
*** using evidence, not just really wanting/ believing it to be the truth


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## Red-1 (20 September 2014)

I have sold on ebay too, and even with saddles have 100% satisfaction, and no refund, partial refunds etc. I do list all defects, photo any damage etc. One saddle was £150, one £600 and one £1,200, so a fair spread. I also pay for insurance on the more expensive ones, and have them signed for. All no issue. As is the case for bridles, rugs, girths, numnahs, boots....... the list is huge.

As a buyer I once asked for a partial refund on an item that arrived in a damaged package, it was damaged inside too, and the courier admitted to the damage. I handed the package back to the courier (as in refused delivery due to damage) and arranged a return. The courier then re-delivered the next day and left with a colleague when I was out. I called the seller and amiably arranged a 30% refund so they did not have to front up their courier. Their choice, very amicable.

This is how ebay works IME. 

It does not endear you to me when I find you have partial refund requests from 50% of your clients! The saddle in the ebay photos does look over prepared, with black polish and sillicone wipe sponge. For work I prepared tack for parades, and this is how we did it to cover up defects short term, but it only lasted one ride. Plus black polish is no fun on white Jodhs. 

If people have "stalked" you I suspect it is because we were scratching our heads in bewilderment, as to what on earth was happening, why you started the thread in the first place, why you were so rude....... contradictory in your story, defensive, it is a worry. I actually thought it was a wind up.

In all seriousness, as another poster has already said, I think you could do with a trip to your GP. With your commitments to toddler, baby, house, horses, refurbishment, etc etc you seem to be under a lot of stress. They may be able to help. Especially f you are also posting on another forum similar but not related issues.


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## coralwings20 (20 September 2014)

Out of interest what is a sillacane wipe?


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## Mongoose11 (20 September 2014)

For a very long time I have stood firm against those who claimed they were being bullied or hunted on this forum but sweet lord it's hard to defend after seeing this post. Relentless and embarrassing. I've certainly taken a look at my past behaviour as a result of this thread

Op, sort yourself out and swallow the pill. Learn from it. 

Those who are were out hunting,  not yet satisfied? A more hearty breakfast might be in order.


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## ester (20 September 2014)

Not everyone is out to scam you on ebay OP

silicone wipe?


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## Red-1 (20 September 2014)

ester said:



			silicone wipe?
		
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Yes, like a sponge with a reservoir of Silicone liquid at the back, and the best ones have a touch of colour in the reservoir (black in this instance, but also available in brown), the shine is instant and lasts a day (unless it rains in which case it marks terribly).

Makes the saddle slippery as hell, but looks wonderful for a few hours.


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## ester (20 September 2014)

Oh sorry, I hadn't realised you had mentioned it, I was questioning if that was what coralwings meant. 

Yes I absolutely agree!


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## Mia&Vin (20 September 2014)

This is a bit of a joke now, im a business seller on ebay and can say in the 1000's of sales with had I can only think of 3 or 4 scammers, not one of which has got away with it. 

Definately look into your postage though, even with insurance upto £1000 delivery should still be around £15


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## brighteyes (20 September 2014)

*deleted*


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## coralwings20 (21 September 2014)

I have looked through the seller's help page and it's all about a new scam regarding getting partial refunds although this seller simply wants her money back hence trying to sell my new dressage saddle to release some funds. Would rather keep my GP as can't hunt in a dressage saddle lol  I didn't use any of the products mentioned but gave it a clean with normal saddle soap - I have Google how to make it black again but don't want to risk using any kind of dye. Once again,  I wouldn't have paid £700 for a faded tatty old saddle then have it valued at £600 &  yes,  I do have the seriel number as the saddler wrote it all down for me.


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## Moomin1 (21 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I have looked through the seller's help page and it's all about a new scam regarding getting partial refunds although this seller simply wants her money back hence trying to sell my new dressage saddle to release some funds. Would rather keep my GP as can't hunt in a dressage saddle lol  I didn't use any of the products mentioned but gave it a clean with normal saddle soap - I have Google how to make it black again but don't want to risk using any kind of dye. Once again,  I wouldn't have paid £700 for a faded tatty old saddle then have it valued at £600 &  yes,  I do have the seriel number as the saddler wrote it all down for me.
		
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So how do you think the buyer has caused the fading?  I'd be interested to see what a Master Saddler would suggest as to how it could have been done, and for what ends exactly. How is this person benefiting exactly?


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## Moomin1 (21 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I have looked through the seller's help page and it's all about a new scam regarding getting partial refunds although this seller simply wants her money back hence trying to sell my new dressage saddle to release some funds. Would rather keep my GP as can't hunt in a dressage saddle lol  I didn't use any of the products mentioned but gave it a clean with normal saddle soap - I have Google how to make it black again but don't want to risk using any kind of dye. Once again,  I wouldn't have paid £700 for a faded tatty old saddle then have it valued at £600 &  yes,  I do have the seriel number as the saddler wrote it all down for me.
		
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So how do you think the buyer has caused the fading?  I'd be interested to see what a Master Saddler would suggest as to how it could have been done, and for what ends exactly. How is this person benefiting exactly?


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## coralwings20 (21 September 2014)

Btw - all my tack is cleaned weekly with: http://www.millbryhill.co.uk/equest...8-AiVmEI0BZ0eq0qi8GnO7q-fwiv14Zt-IaAuVm8P8HAQ

Hardly a magic potion to make it look perfect. The fading was not there when I sent it but it did have some wear & tear as advertised. But in her photos it looks an awful brown colour - let's see what I get back tomorrow &#9786;


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## smellsofhorse (21 September 2014)

Yes, please post pictures tomorrow so we can see the saddle.
Also can you fish out pictures of the saddle before you sent it?
The main seat area would be good.


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## Moomin1 (21 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Btw - all my tack is cleaned weekly with: http://www.millbryhill.co.uk/equest...8-AiVmEI0BZ0eq0qi8GnO7q-fwiv14Zt-IaAuVm8P8HAQ

Hardly a magic potion to make it look perfect. The fading was not there when I sent it but it did have some wear & tear as advertised. But in her photos it looks an awful brown colour - let's see what I get back tomorrow &#9786;
		
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Well, unless a master saddler or someone in similar profession corrects me, I am pretty sure that it is nigh on impossible for a saddle to suddenly and miraculously fade over a few days in the way that the picture depicts.  It just doesn't happen. You could leave them out in the bloomin sun 24/7, after riding for hours on end, and it still wouldn't happen. If it was chemical, there would be damage to the actual surface of the leather, which doesn't appear to be the case from the photo, it just shows a typical faded saddle.  So, I can only deduce, if you are correct in your side of things, that it is a different saddle in the photo, in which case, you won't have any issue at all - because you have proof of the serial number.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (21 September 2014)

Mia&Vin said:



			This is a bit of a joke now, im a business seller on ebay and can say in the 1000's of sales with had I can only think of 3 or 4 scammers, not one of which has got away with it. 

Definately look into your postage though, even with insurance upto £1000 delivery should still be around £15
		
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I've sold saddles in the past. Postage is indeed approx. £15 but packaging is at least another £5. Really substantial, protective packaging - you cannot trust some courier firms (cough, ahem....Yodel, Hermes) to handle your items with care.


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## marmalade76 (21 September 2014)

Where are these photos people keep referring to?


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## Chestnut horse (21 September 2014)

Everyone please let this just go, poster obviously thrives on this ongoing saga and as far as I can make out after reading all posts !!!!!! she started this with one objective ie. to 'out the person who bought her saddle from ebay' and then  decided to return it as she has every right to do so! as this is a business seller who states you can return with 14 days. As far as I can see reading between the lines I would imagine the seller wanted to 'out the buyer' as very early on in her post on here, she asked people to message her to get the buyers name!!!!! There are so many twists and turns in this story it would make an ideal game of 'snakes and ladders' I am just thankful I now know who she is on ebay so I will never make the very bad mistake of purchasing any items from her. Let it go folks been a good laugh but time to move on.


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## Leo Walker (27 September 2014)

Did you get your saddle back yet? If so is it the same as the buyers photos or have they pulled a fast one?


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## smellsofhorse (29 September 2014)

FrankieCob said:



			Did you get your saddle back yet? If so is it the same as the buyers photos or have they pulled a fast one?
		
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Yes I'd be interested in an update too.


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## thatsmygirl (29 September 2014)

I would love a update as well


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## Queenbee (29 September 2014)

Yeah, would be interesting  however, I sincerely doubt op will do so.  Her last post on here was on the 21st, she was online two days ago but funnily enough, nothing.


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## Moomin1 (29 September 2014)

I wonder if the saddle is back up for sale...


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## WelshD (29 September 2014)

Not on either ebay account currently...

Hopefully sold privately locally, no excuses for a buyer to quibble afterwards then


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## wowser (29 September 2014)

i dedicated my time to reading the post i would like to know the out come lol


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## ester (29 September 2014)

It's still on preloved I think, but old advert.


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## Queenbee (29 September 2014)

wowser said:



			i dedicated my time to reading the post i would like to know the out come lol
		
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 Haha, yes I know... How damned inconsiderate of the op.


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## Elbie (29 September 2014)

I did check ebay the other day out of curiosity (it was late at night, my neighbours were having a row again, thought I'd entertain myself!).

Couldn't see it on there but did see the buyer had left negative feedback. Apparently she'd been threatened with court action if she returned it?!


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## *hic* (29 September 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I will never sell via eBay again, only buy.
		
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Several new listings have gone up on both accounts though. Mind you, if the buyers read the feedback from the saddle buyer it may be that that account will never sell again!


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## Queenbee (29 September 2014)

Elbie said:



			I did check ebay the other day out of curiosity (it was late at night, my neighbours were having a row again, thought I'd entertain myself!).

Couldn't see it on there but did see the buyer had left negative feedback. Apparently she'd been threatened with court action if she returned it?!
		
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Gods, it's little wonder CW doesn't want to come on with an update... What a car crash!


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## Elbie (29 September 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Gods, it's little wonder CW doesn't want to come on with an update... What a car crash!
		
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Yes I was intrigued. We don't know all the in's and out's and what sepcifically was said but I did think that sounded a bit weird! Wonder if they have returned the saddle though. Wonder if CW said if it was returned damaged she would pursue with court? Oh the possibilities are endless - need OP to update!


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## bakewell (29 September 2014)

I do feel a bit sad for the OP in that she seemed delusional rather than malicious, ie if she believed hard enough, and told us enough, it would be the truth. Plus it sounds like she has difficulties with prioritisation... coupled with running a livery yard, multiple horses, competing in dressage regularly, having a toddler and the almost constant tack polishing. I did wonder if she had some issues with language given the phonetic spelling errors and difficulty negotiating the complaints procedure; you could understand the anger and frustration that might throw into the mix.

Ultimately though, I am just really really glad I didn't buy that saddle!


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## Wagtail (29 September 2014)

bakewell said:



			I do feel a bit sad for the OP in that she seemed delusional rather than malicious, ie if she believed hard enough, and told us enough, it would be the truth. Plus it sounds like she has difficulties with prioritisation... coupled with running a livery yard, multiple horses, competing in dressage regularly, having a toddler and the almost constant tack polishing. I did wonder if she had some issues with language given the phonetic spelling errors and difficulty negotiating the complaints procedure; you could understand the anger and frustration that might throw into the mix.

Ultimately though, I am just really really glad I didn't buy that saddle!
		
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:biggrin3:


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## Red-1 (29 September 2014)

Oh No, this thread was back "on" and I thought we would find out the result of the return.

Don't see how someone can be threatened with legal action for returning a saddle where returns were allowed? 

But, it has all been very confusing from the start.


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## Leo Walker (29 September 2014)

I havent seen it with my own eyes, so cant confirm it, but apparently there is a post on another forum where she is a claiming the saddle was put outside her gates by the courier and stolen. I've got no reason to doubt the person who told me, although who knows. But if its true shes the unluckiest person alive!


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## *hic* (29 September 2014)

FrankieCob said:



			I havent seen it with my own eyes, so cant confirm it, but apparently there is a post on another forum where she is a claiming the saddle was put outside her gates by the courier and stolen. I've got no reason to doubt the person who told me, although who knows. But if its true shes the unluckiest person alive!
		
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I suspect "if it's true" is the pertinent phrase. No doubt she's opened a claim with the courier for her £700, the cost of the master saddler, her ebay fees and anything else she can possiby think of to add to it. Hopefully the sender insured it for the £400 that it cost her. Or of course I may be wong but given what she's said in this thread I doubt that.


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## Red-1 (29 September 2014)

If that is true, then I hope the sender used a "signed for" service. 

Much easier all round for clarity I find, especially if there has been some sort of dispute about the saddle from the start.


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## EmmasMummy (3 October 2014)

Just looking at something today and saw this and BAM though of OP......................

http://www.furnitureclinic.co.uk/Saddle_Clinic_Leather_Recolouring_Balm.php

Might be handy


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