# A wwyd



## scats (22 November 2017)

This might be long, but please bare with me.

Today I brought the hooligan home.  He was turned out in June at a place about 8 miles away from home and it was hoped he would enjoy his remaining few years living out.
The were several reasons for turning him out.  He has advanced navicular in both front feet, hock arthritis and mild kissing spines.  Day to day, you wouldn't know there was a problem with him aside from a toe drag behind in trot and sometimes being a bit stiff when picking out his hind feet, so he wasn't an animal with dreadful lameness or anything. 
  Vet advice back in May was that living out would be ideal for him.  I am stabled on a small yard where we have our own fields to use.  He had always been out with the Diva, but due to her EMS, I restrict her grazing in the summer so he was having to come in all day in the summer with her and he then stood in cribbing all day.  Winter, they are all in overnight, yard rules, so I realised he'd be spending almost half of his time, summer and winter, stood in the stable.
 On top of this, as his nickname suggests, he can be an idiot in the field.   The Diva would then join in and he'd have her running around for ages. The same week he was diagnosed with kissing spines, she was diagnosed with a tracheal collapse.  It then become crucial that she be kept as quiet as possible in the field and I felt that it was too risky to keep them together.  
So he went out where a few friends have their horses and he absolutely thrived from June til September.  He was happy, moving well, cribbing reduced (but still occasionally having a burp on the fences) and just a generally nicer person being out.  He's always been a grouch in the stable.  Field owner was fabulous and checked him everyday, so I only went up a few times a week.

As much as he has continued to be a much nicer and happier person, his weight loss started to concern me over the last couple of months.  I also noticed that he was spending more time cribbing again and seemed far stiffer behind than ever before.  We tried a few interventions but after much deliberation last weekend and some further weight loss, I decided to bring him home as I felt it was far easier to manage the situation with him back on the yard.

So he's home today and instantly settled back in, but almost immediately upon stabling, he's back cribbing constantly and snarling at me over the door.  It's just so gutting after seeing how happy and relaxed he has been out.  I'm also back in the same situation with the Diva and him, and obviously now there is Polly to consider.  He can be a bit bossy and chase when there's just him and a one or two others, so for the time being I have him in a separate section of the same field.  So he's next door to the girls.  He seemed fine with the arrangement this afternoon, but I just feel it's everything I didn't want for him.  Outside of the stable, he's lovely, and he's always been grumpy when stabled- since I've owned him he has always weaved at turnout time and cribbed constantly.  We've treated him for ulcers many times in the past and his behaviour and cribbing has never changed.  I've owned him for nearly 7 years, so this is nothing new.  He is rising 14.  


Tonight I came home in tears because, as much as I absolutely adore him- I'm not sure this situation is in anyone's best interests- least of all, his.  I am worried about him, worried about the impact on the Diva and also, if I'm honest, worried about me.  I have an auto immune disease and things are not great right now.
I'm considering whether it's time to finally call it a day and would appreciate people's thoughts.


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## blitznbobs (22 November 2017)

You know the answer really... don't you?


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## meesha (22 November 2017)

I am considering my older mares future currently, she has been retired for ten years and is increasingly stiff but is top of herd and holds weight etc.   Only you can decide what to do for the best, you could change his routine if possible or call it a day, I am not sure anyone else can say which is the right decision for you.... The worst bit is having to make the decision for them !   Only suggestion would be to avoid shutting him in, maybe section off a bit of yard outside his stable and provide adlib forage at all times.   Flipping horses......  Hope you manage to make it through the situation ok either way x


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## Rowreach (22 November 2017)

I think you know what is best for both you and him x


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## YorksG (22 November 2017)

As awful as it feels, realistically there isn't much option imo. He can't live out, because he drops too much weight, he can't live half in, half out, because it makes him unhappy and sparks his stereotypies. So sorry that you are in this unenviable position.


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## Goldenstar (22 November 2017)

You know the horse best when you begin to think it it&#8217;s time .
Not every horse can retire to field I am dealing with something very similar with two horses a the moment .
They both have needs all of which conflict with each other and then there&#8217;s what makes them happy on top .
I didgraced myself and burst into tears yesterday when the vet was here because it suddenly became clear to me there was no happy ever after for one of my favourite friends he will go shortly .
It&#8217;s awful just awful but you just have to do what you have to do .


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## EventingMum (22 November 2017)

I think you're looking for reassurance that you would be doing the right thing and I, for one, think you absolutely would - "better a week too soon than a day too late".


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## SusieT (22 November 2017)

Is there simply not enough forage in the field over the winter? Have you considered adding a large bale of hay? I find even if the grass looks good about now the horses start to look for additional forage.


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## milliepops (22 November 2017)

EventingMum said:



			I think you're looking for reassurance that you would be doing the right thing and I, for one, think you absolutely would - "better a week too soon than a day too late".
		
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^^This,  scats,  I'm so sorry you're in this situation but it seems like there's one solution to this post and I think we're all behind you.
I'm about to retire my accident prone oldie to the field and if it doesn't work out then I know what has to happen. It's the worst thing about keeping these magnificent animals. Big hugs to you tonight. Xx


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## smellsofhorse (22 November 2017)

If he was happier living out then i would try again but somewhere he can have adlib hay in the field plus a couple of feeds a day.
He shouldnt drop weight like that so is there something else going on?

You know when the time is right and if hes not happy then it is kinder to call it a day.


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## Amymay (22 November 2017)

SusieT said:



			Is there simply not enough forage in the field over the winter? Have you considered adding a large bale of hay? I find even if the grass looks good about now the horses start to look for additional forage.
		
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But if he has been having food and hay and still looking weight, then I'm with the others.


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## Nudibranch (23 November 2017)

There's nothing wrong with the pts option for him and it would be completely justifiable. If you are not ready for that then I would certainly try alternative accommodation if you can. Turnout but with adlib hay or haylege if he will tolerate it. If he still drops weight after that then you know you've exhausted the options.


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## Asha (23 November 2017)

I would accept that he had enjoyed his summer out , and PTS before the weather gets bad, he sounds ready . So sorry for you x


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## Tiddlypom (23 November 2017)

blitznbobs said:



			You know the answer really... don't you?
		
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This.

I had to let my beloved late maxicob go at age 8 beacause the management of his various ailments conflicted. I had hoped to keep him as a paddock ornament. It was heartbreaking, but it was the only way.


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## Equi (23 November 2017)

You mention field owner checked daily but no mention of feed or forage. In winter a horse who drops will need both daily maybe twice daily feed and adlib haylage. But then the cold may also be contributing to him feeling stiff and what not so it may not matter either way. Hes 14 but with many issues an older horse would have so basically hes never going to get better and each winter will only get worse...


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## TheMule (23 November 2017)

Either the horse needs better grass, feeding in the field and a daily dose of bute to keep him comfortable or you need to have him PTS. There's nothing wrong with choosing the PTS route but do it sooner rather than later as it doesn't sound like he's going to cope in his current situation


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## MissGee (23 November 2017)

EventingMum said:



			I think you're looking for reassurance that you would be doing the right thing and I, for one, think you absolutely would - "better a week too soon than a day too late".
		
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This.... 

So very hard though - I feel for you x


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## SEL (23 November 2017)

**hugs**

Horrible position to be in, especially as I remember you talking on here about him being happy in his retirement home. What do they give the oldies over winter? Big bales of haylage in the yard near me which seems to keep them ticking over. 

Take a deep breath, give yourself some time to adjust back to having him around again and then see where you are. There is nothing wrong with having him PTS (its a million times better than a horse struggling with winter), but your opening post doesn't sound like you're mentally ready for that just yet and I don't think you'll forgive yourself if you rush into a decision.


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## GirlFriday (23 November 2017)

No idea on your/their locations but there are some YOs on here who take on retirement/recuperation liveries at grass and are very well set up to deal with them by all accounts. Might be worth considering a more specialised service (nothing dramatic in the first instance - just appropriate feed, meds and rugging etc) even if it is a little further afield.


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## Always-Riding (23 November 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			No idea on your/their locations but there are some YOs on here who take on retirement/recuperation liveries at grass and are very well set up to deal with them by all accounts. Might be worth considering a more specialised service (nothing dramatic in the first instance - just appropriate feed, meds and rugging etc) even if it is a little further afield.
		
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This would absolutely be my first port of call - see if there's any good retirement liveries nearby. If it doesn't work or they just don't exist in your area, you know you tried every option to keep him happy and as healthy as possible. 

**Big hugs**


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## Ceriann (23 November 2017)

Always-Riding said:



			This would absolutely be my first port of call - see if there's any good retirement liveries nearby. If it doesn't work or they just don't exist in your area, you know you tried every option to keep him happy and as healthy as possible. 

**Big hugs**
		
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This if it's possible.  Sorry you are going through this - it's so hard.


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## Apercrumbie (23 November 2017)

Tricky to say without knowing a bit more detail about his time living out. Were they fed? Was there forage given as well? If the answer is no to one or both of those things, I would definitely try again and find a place where he can live out but receive more food. If he is still dropping too much weight then you can reassess but from what you have described, he clearly isn't a happy bunny right now.

Obviously if they did have ad lib forage and a feed if necessary, then it's a different story and I think that sadly you know what the answer is. I'm so sorry that you're going through this - it's a horrible decision that none of us want to have to make.


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## pippixox (23 November 2017)

agree with others- if you could try living out with more hay and feed (you may of already done this- as you said you tried things before bringing him back) 

but if not, he his not happy, with no prospect of improvement......

It sucks. I have a retiree but luckily he is happy coming in at night for a rest and out all day and then lives out in the summer. He is happy, but he has had some issues and is arthritic all over. So I even said to my horsey friend that if he ever started going down hill and I wasn't seeing it (as lets face it sometimes you try and ignore issues as you never want them to go) that she has to tell me- remind me that I promised myself to never let him be unhappy.


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## QuantockHills (23 November 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			This.

I had to let my beloved late maxicob go at age 8 beacause the management of his various ailments conflicted. I had hoped to keep him as a paddock ornament. It was heartbreaking, but it was the only way.
		
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same here. my boy was only just 14 and could have lived happily ever after at the end of my garden but cushings and arthritis got to him. He was on 4 prascend a day and then developed narcolepsy. sometimes you just cant fix them. definetly better a week too soon than a day to late. so sorry for you having to make this decision.


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## scats (23 November 2017)

Thank you everyone for your comments and support- I'm crying again and I'm really not an emotional sort!

In answer to a few questions, the field owner usually starts putting haylage out in January.  Shes been so accommodating (even when he started cribbing on her fences!) and I can't fault her at all, she has always tried to offer solutions, but I realised that he was going to need supplementing with feed and hay now and logistically it was much easier to do that from home due to the layout of the fields he was at, lack of lights and me trying to fit a couple of visits in around the girls, work, hospital appointments etc.  He's not dropped a horrific amount of weight by any means, and he has always been a massively good doer and on a permanent diet, which is one of the reasons why I felt it was worth trying 24/7 turnout for him.  

He was stressy this morning in the stable, absolutely no worse than he has always been - just weaving at turnout time and bouncing up and down at the door- but the reality of it seems so much starker now that I've seen how happy he was out.

I dont regret bringing him home, as it will be so much more peaceful to do the deed here rather than drag him from a herd he's attached to and put him down in eyesight of his field mates.  I will probably give him a few days at home, spend a bit of time with him this weekend and then arrange it for early next week.

I do really appreciate all your thoughts and advice x


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## DJ (23 November 2017)

I think you`re looking for reassurance that thinking about PTS isn`t wrong. I think you`re feeling guilty over it, as any of us would, but you have to be realistic in what`s best for him and for you. 

I have an oldie who`s retired, but she`s not a moments trouble, she`s easy in every way. It`s great when they`re like that. But equally I owned a nightmare of a gelding, who had to be micro managed and injured himself (and me) on more than one occasion, he was only young, but I had him pts. 

You`re not a bad person for thinking the way you are x


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## GirlFriday (23 November 2017)

So, horse requires 24/7 turn out with additional forage in winter (where 'winter' means 'from November not from January'). Horse has been provided with either 24/7 turnout without additional forage or partial turn out with forage. Neither suit. So, horse is PTS.

It is no different to any of the many, many, threads on here over the years from people who don't want to keep a horse in retirement. It isn't what I'd do (in the wwyd sense - I'd find somewhere with retirement livery) but then I don't eat meat either because I don't like the killing of animals for my enjoyment (in eating or in having previously ridden them). Lots (most!) of other people in the world (including yourself on a daily basis probably) do make the decision that killing for pleasure is fine. It is why I'm not as anti-hunt as people expect - riding something for pleasure then killing it/killing it and eating for pleasure/chasing it then killing for pleasure don't seem terribly different to me. And most people think that at least one of the above is completely fine. So most people on here will support you.


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## Amymay (23 November 2017)

Jesus. Kick a girl when she's down &#128547;


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## GirlFriday (23 November 2017)

Or PTS a horse rather than arrange for it to have forage over winter?


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## ponyparty (23 November 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Or PTS a horse rather than arrange for it to have forage over winter?
		
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And what is wrong with having a chronically unwell horse that is starting to go downhill, before the really bad weather has even started, PTS humanely?


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## ponyparty (23 November 2017)

Scats - my heart goes out to you, this is the worst decision any horse owner could have to take. You know your horse best and I'm sure you are doing what is best by him.


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## GirlFriday (23 November 2017)

ponyparty said:



			And what is wrong with having a chronically unwell horse that is starting to go downhill, before the really bad weather has even started, PTS humanely?
		
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For me: Nothing - as long as at least basic, non-invasive steps (such as feeding it) have been tried first.
For some people: Nothing in any circs
For others (right to life types): everything in any circs

Obviously I agree with myself rather than other views there. Others will, quite rightly, disagree with me. That is fine.


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## scats (23 November 2017)

Girl Friday- you are entitled to your opinion and I asked for them, so that's fine.

I must point out though that I move heaven and earth for my animals and what I've done for this horse, who has not been the easiest in the world (understatement of the year!) is far more than you'll ever know.   If he was well and healthy then it might be a different situation, but he does have advanced navicular, kissing spines and hock arthritis, the latter of which has got noticeably worse over the last few months.  He can no longer have Danilon or bute as it upsets his stomach badly and causes him to projectile diarrhea.  He also has, which I haven't mentioned as it's currently under control, an allergy to certain sugars in grass.  This makes managing him a rollercoaster ride, as at any particular point in the year, he comes out in major hives and has small colic attacks.  We have kept these at bay for the last 3 years, but there is always the chance of this happening again. 

He has been fed at the field, hence my 'several interventions' comment, but my concerns were also because of his constant cribbing and his worsening hind legs.  
I felt that at the field, I could not keep on top of a spiralling situation, so I opted to bring him home.

If you're assuming this horse is skin and bone, then you are mistaken.  I will take a picture of him later to prove to you that he has had adequate food (although you will then probably consider me cruel for putting to sleep a 'healthy looking horse') but moving forwards, something needed to change, hence why he has come home.


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## Rowreach (23 November 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Obviously I agree with myself rather than other views there. Others will, quite rightly, disagree with me. That is fine.
		
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Having an opinion is one thing.  Knowing when to voice it and when not to is quite another.


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## ozpoz (23 November 2017)

GirlFriday, you are showing a blatant lack of compassion for a fellow horse owner who is trying to do the best for her horse. 

You have obviously never been in a situation when you have to make an educated decision. I feel sad for the horse owner who has to read your patronising and misstimed response.


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## milliepops (23 November 2017)

Rowreach said:



			Having an opinion is one thing.  Knowing when to voice it and when not to is quite another.
		
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well, this ^^!

Scats, many of us will be aware of the lengths you go to for your horses - I know she's not the subject of discussion today but I think you've also gone above and beyond for Diva too so there's no doubting your commitment to care for them all well.


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## hopscotch bandit (23 November 2017)

scats said:



			Girl Friday- you are entitled to your opinion and I asked for them, so that's fine.
 If he was well and healthy then it might be a different situation, but he does have advanced navicular, kissing spines and hock arthritis, the latter of which has got noticeably worse over the last few months.  He can no longer have Danilon or bute as it upsets his stomach badly and causes him to projectile diarrhea.  . 

QUOTE]

I suppose it boils down to how much money you are willing to spend on him as well as all the other things, I'm guessing he is no longer insured so quite understand how money would come into play in that situation. Just thinking if he was to have Tildren or Osphos that would sort out the navicular and the hocks in one go.  Its around £500-£700 so quite expensive but then hock injections are only £70, so if his hocks are getting worse can you not get these done?  Could he not have some sort of probiotic which would help with the bute/danillon situation or maybe put him on a no bute/devils claw type of supplement that might not affect his tummy in such a way? I'm not suggesting for one minute you haven't done all you can, I just wondered why you haven't considered the hock injections or Tildren or why your vets never mentioned them? My mare has hock injections so I know they are quite effective. Hope you find an answer somewhere.
		
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## ihatework (23 November 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:





scats said:



			Girl Friday- you are entitled to your opinion and I asked for them, so that's fine.
 If he was well and healthy then it might be a different situation, but he does have advanced navicular, kissing spines and hock arthritis, the latter of which has got noticeably worse over the last few months.  He can no longer have Danilon or bute as it upsets his stomach badly and causes him to projectile diarrhea.  . 

QUOTE]

I suppose it boils down to how much money you are willing to spend on him as well as all the other things, I'm guessing he is no longer insured so quite understand how money would come into play in that situation. Just thinking if he was to have Tildren or Osphos that would sort out the navicular and the hocks in one go.  Its around £500-£700 so quite expensive but then hock injections are only £70, so if his hocks are getting worse can you not get these done?  Could he not have some sort of probiotic which would help with the bute/danillon situation or maybe put him on a no bute/devils claw type of supplement that might not affect his tummy in such a way? I'm not suggesting for one minute you haven't done all you can, I just wondered why you haven't considered the hock injections or Tildren or why your vets never mentioned them? My mare has hock injections so I know they are quite effective. Hope you find an answer somewhere.
		
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There is a difference between whether you can treat and whether you should treat. Tilden is no miracle cure.

Scats you have my utmost sympathy. Strangers cannot tell you what to do, you and you alone know the various considerations for the situation. Ultimately keep quality of life in your mind, and if that&#8217;s on a downwards projectary then there are few people that could criticise you. And those that do either haven&#8217;t been in the position or are completely unrealistic
		
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## scats (23 November 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			So, horse requires 24/7 turn out with additional forage in winter (where 'winter' means 'from November not from January'). Horse has been provided with either 24/7 turnout without additional forage or partial turn out with forage. Neither suit. So, horse is PTS.

It is no different to any of the many, many, threads on here over the years from people who don't want to keep a horse in retirement. It isn't what I'd do (in the wwyd sense - I'd find somewhere with retirement livery) but then I don't eat meat either because I don't like the killing of animals for my enjoyment (in eating or in having previously ridden them). Lots (most!) of other people in the world (including yourself on a daily basis probably) do make the decision that killing for pleasure is fine. It is why I'm not as anti-hunt as people expect - riding something for pleasure then killing it/killing it and eating for pleasure/chasing it then killing for pleasure don't seem terribly different to me. And most people think that at least one of the above is completely fine. So most people on here will support you.
		
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I must also respond to the comment about not wanting to keep a horse in retirement.  My beloved horse Joe was put to sleep last year at the age of 18 with squamous cell carcinoma.  He had been retired as a 6 year old when he tore a ligament in the field and he stayed with me from the ages of 6-18 as nothing more than an expensive pet and if his cancer hadn't got him, I would have kept him til his natural dying day. 
The hooligan himself was also written off in 2014 after doing a DDFT.  His return to work was slow and not without complications and, aside from a few fleeting weeks of walking hacks and very occasional walk and trot in the manege, he never fully returned to anything resembling work, so he was effectively retired since 2014 and lived purely with me as a pet.  After his kissing spines diagnosis, I sold his tack.  That tack had been largely gathering dust for 3 years previously.  Please do not lump me into the category of someone who gets rid of horses when they can't ride them, because I have kept hold of more written off horses in 30 years than most people would ever contemplate in a lifetime.


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## ester (23 November 2017)

With the cribbing I would wonder if he is hurting and got ulcers on top of everything else? As indicated by his increased stiffness. 

So you have a horse with a plethora of physical conditions, stiffening up even when on 24/7 turnout, unable to have bute and deteriorating. I'd much rather listen to him and call it a day before he goes downhill further.


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## scats (23 November 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:





scats said:



			Girl Friday- you are entitled to your opinion and I asked for them, so that's fine.
 If he was well and healthy then it might be a different situation, but he does have advanced navicular, kissing spines and hock arthritis, the latter of which has got noticeably worse over the last few months.  He can no longer have Danilon or bute as it upsets his stomach badly and causes him to projectile diarrhea.  . 

QUOTE]

I suppose it boils down to how much money you are willing to spend on him as well as all the other things, I'm guessing he is no longer insured so quite understand how money would come into play in that situation. Just thinking if he was to have Tildren or Osphos that would sort out the navicular and the hocks in one go.  Its around £500-£700 so quite expensive but then hock injections are only £70, so if his hocks are getting worse can you not get these done?  Could he not have some sort of probiotic which would help with the bute/danillon situation or maybe put him on a no bute/devils claw type of supplement that might not affect his tummy in such a way? I'm not suggesting for one minute you haven't done all you can, I just wondered why you haven't considered the hock injections or Tildren or why your vets never mentioned them? My mare has hock injections so I know they are quite effective. Hope you find an answer somewhere.
		
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Hi hopscotch, he's had numerous probiotics over the years, devils claw etc.  He is no longer insured as the exclusions were so great that it was pointless.  In 6 years I have spent over £15k of my own money on vet bills alone for Tobi, so money has never been an issue.  If he needed it, he got it.

  The decision to not go down the hock injections or Tildren route was made jointly by me and the vets, based on the fact that he really showed no noticeable discomfort at the time, other than an occasional toe drag in trot and that he is not a great patient and can be unpredictable when stressed.  He had previously broken a vets jaw.  We decided together that trying 24/7 turnout was the best option given his history.  His navicular has always amazed us, it was found purely by accident when we investigated the DDFT and, despite being advanced, he has never been lame with it.

His stop start return to work turned out to be the kissing spines, plus a lot of field related self harming!

Thank you for your best wishes x
		
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## daffy44 (23 November 2017)

I'm so sorry, its a horrible position to be in, and ultimately you know your horse better than anyone else, so it must be your decision.  But, in my opinion, a horse with multiple issues, that is not happy to have an easy retirement is better off pts.  It is a decision made with the horses welfare at heart, and it seems to me you have gone above and beyond for this horse, and pts can be the ultimate kindness we are able to show for the horses we love.  

I also used to be a vet nurse, and the saying "better a week too soon, rather than a day too late" is one of the truest sayings, and a good rule to trust.


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## Equi (23 November 2017)

If more girl Fridays existed the whole country would be full of horses hopping on one leg. Pay no heed to her. The issues your horse has would be grounds enough to pts not to mention youve tried feeding and he has some intolerances so probably cant just be loaded with haylage and sugarbeet.


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## scats (23 November 2017)

milliepops said:



			well, this ^^!

Scats, many of us will be aware of the lengths you go to for your horses - I know she's not the subject of discussion today but I think you've also gone above and beyond for Diva too so there's no doubting your commitment to care for them all well.
		
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Thank you MP, that really means a lot x


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## hairycob (23 November 2017)

Sympathy Scats but you are obviously sensible enough to listen to your horse rather than some on here and it's clearly hurting you having to make the decision. There will always be some who try more and more desperate solutions until the poor horse is virtually phoning the vet itself, you have the horses best interest at heart.


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## scats (23 November 2017)

He came in this evening, pottery on the yard and was then very dull in his stable, switching between resting hind legs.

I have decided not to prolong the inevitable and he is booked to be put to sleep tomorrow afternoon.   Thank you for all your support at this difficult time. Xx


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## milliepops (23 November 2017)

so sorry scats, but it sounds like you're definitely doing the right thing xx  doesn't make it any less horrible for you, of course.


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## EventingMum (23 November 2017)

Sorry for you but IMO opinion you are making the right decision x


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## Mosh (23 November 2017)

I'm sorry Scats. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. 
I am not very good with words but like I said I'll be thinking of you. Hugs xxx


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## Leo Walker (23 November 2017)

Ignore the idiot. Theres always one. I'm so sorry. Its such a hard thing to do. I'm another one who will be thinking of you.


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## Rowreach (23 November 2017)

A good decision, will be thinking of you tomorrow, it's never easy even when it's right x


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## Amymay (23 November 2017)

Will be thinking of you tomorrow xx


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## DabDab (23 November 2017)

scats said:



			He came in this evening, pottery on the yard and was then very dull in his stable, switching between resting hind legs.

I have decided not to prolong the inevitable and he is booked to be put to sleep tomorrow afternoon.   Thank you for all your support at this difficult time. Xx
		
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Oh goodness Scats, I've only just seen this thread. I'm so so sorry this is the situation you're faced with. Your love for this horse was so tangible in your posts about him. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow xx


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## YorksG (23 November 2017)

Thinking of you at this difficult time.


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## ester (23 November 2017)

Will be thinking of you tomorrow scats. x


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## crabbymare (23 November 2017)

scats said:



			He came in this evening, pottery on the yard and was then very dull in his stable, switching between resting hind legs.

I have decided not to prolong the inevitable and he is booked to be put to sleep tomorrow afternoon.   Thank you for all your support at this difficult time. Xx
		
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Very sorry, having read through the thread I think you are doing the right thing  Be kind to yourself tomorrow.


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## daffy44 (23 November 2017)

A very brave and good decision, I'll be thinking of you, I hope it all goes peacefully x


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## Dave's Mam (23 November 2017)

You will be in my thoughts tomorrow.  Be kind to yourself, it's the right thing.  Big Love.


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## LadyGascoyne (23 November 2017)

Saddest thing in the world, but nothing that you do is ever going to make this horse better. You can only make sure that he doesn't get worse.

Thinking of you.


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## DJ (23 November 2017)

Absolutely the right decision, you`ll be in my thoughts tomorrow x


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## Hoof_Prints (23 November 2017)

A brave and kind decision .It's such a horrible and sad thing to go through, but take comfort in knowing you are doing right by him x


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## buddylove (24 November 2017)

Thinking of you today, absolutely the right decision, he's telling you he is not comfortable anymore and you are listening to him. That makes you a kind, caring and responsible owner that he is lucky to have x


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## ponyparty (24 November 2017)

Oh, so sorry scats  you're totally doing the right thing, will be thinking of you here too. x


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## Hannahgb (24 November 2017)

I'm so sorry. It sounds the right thing to do. Thinking of you today x


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## Ladyinred (24 November 2017)

scats said:



			Girl Friday- you are entitled to your opinion and I asked for them, so that's fine.

I must point out though that I move heaven and earth for my animals and what I've done for this horse, who has not been the easiest in the world (understatement of the year!) is far more than you'll ever know.   If he was well and healthy then it might be a different situation, but he does have advanced navicular, kissing spines and hock arthritis, the latter of which has got noticeably worse over the last few months.  He can no longer have Danilon or bute as it upsets his stomach badly and causes him to projectile diarrhea.  He also has, which I haven't mentioned as it's currently under control, an allergy to certain sugars in grass.  This makes managing him a rollercoaster ride, as at any particular point in the year, he comes out in major hives and has small colic attacks.  We have kept these at bay for the last 3 years, but there is always the chance of this happening again. 

He has been fed at the field, hence my 'several interventions' comment, but my concerns were also because of his constant cribbing and his worsening hind legs.  
I felt that at the field, I could not keep on top of a spiralling situation, so I opted to bring him home.

If you're assuming this horse is skin and bone, then you are mistaken.  I will take a picture of him later to prove to you that he has had adequate food (although you will then probably consider me cruel for putting to sleep a 'healthy looking horse') but moving forwards, something needed to change, hence why he has come home.
		
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Don't waste your time and emotion trying to justify yourself to this poster. She is extremely harsh and judgmental.. no one is ever right but her. If she read your post properly she might just realise the issue is far more than simply a horse losing weight and needing more feed/forage.

Your boy is telling you in the only way he can that he isn't happy, he would prefer to be out with the herd. But that won't work and feeding him won't cure his other problems. You are taking the route kindest for the future of your horse, especially since he is still fairly young and seems to be rapidly getting worse.

Don't upset yourself over someone else's views. What you believe is all that matters... and I don't believe for one moment that you wouldn't pay for retirement livery if you thought it would help him!


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## QuantockHills (24 November 2017)

Thinking of you today. Definetly the right decision. xxxxx


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## LaurenBay (24 November 2017)

My thoughts are with you and your boy today Scats!

Sounds like the best decision for him, what a lucky Horse to have such a caring loving mummy.


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## Ceriann (24 November 2017)

Thoughts with you today x


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## hopscotch bandit (24 November 2017)

scats said:





hopscotch bandit said:



			Hi hopscotch, he's had numerous probiotics over the years, devils claw etc.  He is no longer insured as the exclusions were so great that it was pointless.  In 6 years I have spent over £15k of my own money on vet bills alone for Tobi, so money has never been an issue.  If he needed it, he got it.

  The decision to not go down the hock injections or Tildren route was made jointly by me and the vets, based on the fact that he really showed no noticeable discomfort at the time, other than an occasional toe drag in trot and that he is not a great patient and can be unpredictable when stressed.  He had previously broken a vets jaw.  We decided together that trying 24/7 turnout was the best option given his history.  His navicular has always amazed us, it was found purely by accident when we investigated the DDFT and, despite being advanced, he has never been lame with it.

His stop start return to work turned out to be the kissing spines, plus a lot of field related self harming!

Thank you for your best wishes x
		
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I understand.  Its a hard place to be, I feel for you.
		
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## MagicMelon (24 November 2017)

SusieT said:



			Is there simply not enough forage in the field over the winter? Have you considered adding a large bale of hay? I find even if the grass looks good about now the horses start to look for additional forage.
		
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This, if he were mine I think Id try adding a big bale of hay to his field (maybe even a field shelter too if possible?) as he might just be bored with not much grass to eat. Id do this anyway especially if hes prone to losing weight. Then Id introduce another horse into his field that he gets on with once he's settled in a bit. He's just been moved so he will likely be stressed for a while?


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## Tiddlypom (24 November 2017)

MM, can you cut your post, he's being pts today.

OP, hugs, it never gets any easier.


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## Flyermc (24 November 2017)

so sorry scats, i lost my amazing boy 3 weeks ago after 17.5 years together, it was the hardest thing ive ever done and still missing everyday 

im thinking of you


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## OldNag (24 November 2017)

Scats I am thinking of you. A hard decision,  but honestly I think it is the right one Xx


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