# OMG my fears were confirmed - horse attacked by 'big cat'



## kittykatcat (4 June 2010)

Hi all, 

Just wanted to share my experience/warn people/see if anyone else had any experience of this......

About 3 weeks ago an elderly livery of mine (30) was attacked by SOMETHING in the field, he had sweated up to such a point that he had dried completely white (he's black), lost a shoe, lost so much weight, was scared to go in the field and had the most AWFUL scratches and gauges all over his body. 

He was only out with my (shoe-less) gelding at the time, so my poor horse was blamed and branded, but i knew something didnt stack up - it was so out of character for my horse to attack another, plus he has no shoes on, plus the scratches did not look like hoof/teeth at all.

Anyway, after much thinking and pondering i decided to contact the bg cat research guy in our area and sent him photos of the scratches....he sent this email back...

''Just one look at some of those photo's suggests 'big cat' attack to me. The cat has clearly struggled to get a grip at times, causing the longer slashes, but they are very clean, some deeper than others.
It's certainly not a human inflicted injury or fence wound, as there are clusters of scratches which suggests a cat. They will pounce and try to grip the underside of the horse to get a throat bite, and at times scratch marks will appear on the flanks. Thankfully your horse was too powerful to succumb,''

Scary scary stuff.

Has anyone else had experience of this. I am just outside Canterbury in Kent, just to warn anyone else. I dont know how you could prevent an attack though..

I would post pics but i dont know how to do it :S

xx


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## welshied (4 June 2010)

Would be interesting to see pics never heared of anything like it before but agree would have thought horse would beable to inflict scratches


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## kittykatcat (4 June 2010)

Yes will post if i can - can anyone explain how to put pictures on!!??


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## Montyforever (4 June 2010)

Seriously, there are so many big cats in kent, ive seen 2! One in cobham woods, looked like a black leopard, ive seen that twice! Once with my pony inhand and he legged it luckily! Cat just ran off. And theres been 3 reports of a Mountain lion in Harvel! Scarey stuff isnt it. But they rarely attack people/livestock luckily. Hopefully the cat wont come back if he didnt have much luck with the pony!!


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## ldlp111 (4 June 2010)

link for you

http://www.britishbigcats.org/field_signs.php

pic of horse at top supposed to of been attacked


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## Firehorse (4 June 2010)

go on photobucket.  upload them to there.  copy the IMG code and post onto reply form on here.  that sounds awful, hope the horse is ok.


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## rosie fronfelen (4 June 2010)

kittykatcat said:



			Hi all, 

Just wanted to share my experience/warn people/see if anyone else had any experience of this......

About 3 weeks ago an elderly livery of mine (30) was attacked by SOMETHING in the field, he had sweated up to such a point that he had dried completely white (he's black), lost a shoe, lost so much weight, was scared to go in the field and had the most AWFUL scratches and gauges all over his body. 

He was only out with my (shoe-less) gelding at the time, so my poor horse was blamed and branded, but i knew something didnt stack up - it was so out of character for my horse to attack another, plus he has no shoes on, plus the scratches did not look like hoof/teeth at all.

Anyway, after much thinking and pondering i decided to contact the bg cat research guy in our area and sent him photos of the scratches....he sent this email back...

''Just one look at some of those photo's suggests 'big cat' attack to me. The cat has clearly struggled to get a grip at times, causing the longer slashes, but they are very clean, some deeper than others.
It's certainly not a human inflicted injury or fence wound, as there are clusters of scratches which suggests a cat. They will pounce and try to grip the underside of the horse to get a throat bite, and at times scratch marks will appear on the flanks. Thankfully your horse was too powerful to succumb,''

Scary scary stuff.

Has anyone else had experience of this. I am just outside Canterbury in Kent, just to warn anyone else. I dont know how you could prevent an attack though..

I would post pics but i dont know how to do it :S

xx
		
Click to expand...

we know there are big cats here in Wales,they have attacked sheep many times but never heard of a horse eing attacked, anything is possible mind!


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## jodie3 (4 June 2010)

I haven't seen or heard anything in the local press recently but not that long ago there was a lot of fuss about pumas/panthers in this area as they had been sighted in and around Ashdown Forest.  In fact one was seen quiet close to the yard where our horses were at the time but luckily nothing was attacked.

Not sure what you could do to prevent it?

If the pony attacked was elderly I suppose that was  easy prey for the cat?

I would have thought there is enough easier prey for them to catch without bothering with a horse unless they were very hungry or feeding young.


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## FlorenceBassey (4 June 2010)

Where abouts are you based?? as thee have been reports of a 'big cat' in the wider essex area over the years, my farrier also has a couple of photos of waht appears to be a 'big cat'  in the distance, but they are just not good enough quality to say for sure what it is one way or another.


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## QUICKFIRE (4 June 2010)

Big cat attacks on horses are quite common on Dartmoor and surrounding areas, they mainly attack old or sick horses. My friends horse was attacked (was ill at the time) and had several scratch marks along her stomach and flanks.


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## jessamess (4 June 2010)

OMG :O 

I read it I was like ''Please don't be in kent, please don't be in kent, Oh great it's in kent, just my luck'' HAHA!!! 

Hope the horse makes a quick recovery, I have to stay my boy does come in at night (because he's a wimp and wont stay out HAHA) But I do get rather worried as his field backs on to a woods!!! 

Did they say what type of cat it could be?!?!? 

xxx


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## Mike007 (4 June 2010)

When the Dangerous animals act came into force,(must have been about 30 years ago)It is presumed that a lot of cats were released into the wild rather than be put down or put into zoos.The "surrey Puma" and the "beast of Bodmin" are two of the urban legends,but there is more truth in them than most people imagine.They are shy elusive creatures and have gone to ground long before most people are up and about. As an example,there are large areas of relative wilderness along the north downs where a big cat can avoid humans(and more especialy,Dogs)It is unusual for even a cougar to attack a horse however,(or a human for that matter). I have seen a Cougar when I was farming in Surrey (1986)on Walton heath at about 4.30 am.


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## kittykatcat (4 June 2010)

I'm not sure what an IMG code is - sorry!!! But here's the URL...might work, sorry for being such a dinosaur (although im only 24!)

http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b421/kittykatcat07/


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## jodie3 (4 June 2010)

'and 17 reports of a big cat with cubs &#8211; an increasing trend, which suggests that the animals may be breeding' (taken from the Big Cat website)

Sorry, but this made me laugh!  Perhaps it is a celebrity big cat who has chosen to adopt from abroad?


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## welshied (4 June 2010)

Would agree with you def not caused by your horse and would agree looks like some sort of big cat


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## dozzie (4 June 2010)

Definitely not inflicted by a horse.


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## Orangehorse (4 June 2010)

Local farmer's son came face to face with one very early one morning.  He was walking down a hedge and was aware of something the other side but thought it was one of his dogs, only to reach a gateway and see a "big cat" looking at him.

There have been unexplained sheep deaths, but I've never heard of a horse attack. Scarey.


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## MochaDun (4 June 2010)

Gosh those are some scratches.  Poor horse, I hope it recovers and loses its fear of the field.  I think or believe anyway that from the various reports that continually crop up about this there are a few big cats of different species living wild in the countryside.  I guess for a horse it is a terrifying experience as it is from their ancient heritage a reminder of being brought down by a predator such an attack.  Only other thing  I guess could possibly be a large very aggressive huge clawed dog that got into the field.


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## the watcher (4 June 2010)

We have big cats in Oxfordshire in the forested areas. Some years ago there was a big cat on a local farm that attacked sheep in a field, one of the horses out in the same paddock was so traumatised it died that night of a heart attack.


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## Pedantic (4 June 2010)

Maybe your horse turns into a Werehorse at full moon and grows claws and fangs, how the hell did anyone think another horse caused those injuries


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## Cedars (4 June 2010)

Holy mother....those are some scratches. Unless it could be a person doing it (god forbid) I also agree it must be a cat. Very scary =[


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## Munchkin (4 June 2010)

Those pics are terrifying! Did the owner not get the vet out? Or did the vet think it was your horse too? If they did I think they need a new vet!


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## kittykatcat (4 June 2010)

The owner is on hol, so initially i didnt call the vet out, but he had lost so much weight and randomly started quidding, that i did call the vet out. She said she had never seen anything like it and thought it may be human caused.

However, sounds sick, but if i were to slash a horse, i would do it down the side....not fanny around doing intricate slash marks on the back and down the legs! The scratches are too random i think to be a human, unless it was a human trying to impersonate a big cat.

The horse is recovering bless him, put on weight but still quidding, which is really odd.

Sounds selfish, but im so glad my horse wasnt attacked...i guess it went for the weaker one of the two  poor old boy


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## spotty_pony (4 June 2010)

Poor horse!  I must say, I've never seen scratches like that before and they wouldn't have been caused by a horse or a human. If he is quidding, is it possible he could have had a blow to the head during the attack which has damaged his teeth or jaw?


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## kittykatcat (4 June 2010)

Well this is it - anything could have happened....going to wait until the owner comes back, didnt feel like i could authorise xrays on a 30 year old!

He's doing well on good grass and soaked high fibre cubes


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (4 June 2010)

OMG I just looked at your photos and shivers went down my spine. That is so frightening. It does look exactly how I would imagine a big cat would inflict injuries. The poor, poor horse.  It might take him a very long time to recover mentally from something like that, so he might need lots of patience and love to help him to try and regain his confidence again.

We are'nt in Kent, we're the opposite side of the M25, but my horse is out at night and his field backs onto woods, so I feel very uncomfortable after seeing those pics


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## QUICKFIRE (4 June 2010)

They look like the same kind of injurys that my friends horse sustained.


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## Chestnuttymare (4 June 2010)

Poor old lad, hope he recovers ok. I didn't realise that there were so many  big cats around the country. scary stuff!!


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## Toffee44 (4 June 2010)

Good few years ago we had two signings of a black big cat on the hill behind the yard. The local farmer found his half eaten jack russel in his garden as well and a local guy claimed to finding half a sheep in the woods. yuck yuck yuck couldnt bring myself to hack for ages. 

Am in Kent and this was round Whitfield to Coldred area


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## RuthnMeg (5 June 2010)

poor old horse! Completely terrifiying. That just HAS to be a cat doesn't it? It wouldn't make sense otherwise.
Hope the old boy recovers. Lots of fuss is needed on him, bless.


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## nikkik (5 June 2010)

We have them down here in Pembrokeshire.  My OH was out checking the sheep, when he noticed a pile of sheeps fleece in the middle of the field, with drag marks to the sheep fence, he found the remains of the ewe about 100yds into the next field.  The fence was about 4 and a half feet high, the sheep must have weighed about 7 stone, so whatever killed it and dragged it over the fence was big!!!!!!!!!!!!!  All that was left were bones and fleece.  The sheep are checked ever day.

I know 3 people who have seen black panthers, or something very similar.  Always in the winter.


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## Llewellyn (5 June 2010)

Convinced I saw a big cat while exercising my horse at about 6am I can tell you our hill work became dramatically faster in subsequent days! and night time horse checks let the dogs out first just in case always had the feeling of being watched. 
But that's just me being a chicken. Might be interesting to ask hunt staff their experiences as they must (have) flush woods and scared out more than deer and rabbits.
But cringe so scarey and makes you feel so helpless that horses are just in the field no protection!


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## SonnysHumanSlave (5 June 2010)

Haven't seen pic yet, but will have a look in a bit. 

Years ago, when I was about 16yrs old, my pony was kept at my friends house and I was up in the field feeding him, when he stared at something I looked over and I swear to god it was a huge black cat like a panther or something, it was the other side of the field, running down the side away from us. 

Now the grass was old grass about knee high or more, and this was over the top of that! When I mentioned it to him, I was told local farmrers had spoken about there being some big black cat in the area. Eek!


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## Mike007 (5 June 2010)

I strongly suspect that there is now a big cat out there nursing several bruised ribs and thinking that those funny looking deer can pack a punch and are not worth the effort.


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## Janette (5 June 2010)

Mike007 said:



			I strongly suspect that there is now a big cat out there nursing several bruised ribs and thinking that those funny looking deer can pack a punch and are not worth the effort.

Click to expand...

LOL, I sincerely hope you are right.  Poor old horse, those scratches look painful - how can anybody think they were done by another horse?


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## turkana (5 June 2010)

Could the horse be kept in at night or moved to a field by the house?

I did a horseback safari in a reserve where the horses lived loose in the park with the game, they had leopards so I asked about the risk to the horses, I was told that a leopard wouldn't risk attacking a healthy adult horse but the foals were kept by the house for the first few weeks.They were then turned out with the others & they'd never had a problem.

These were people who'd lived with leopards for years yet they never saw them, so what could we be living with that we never see?

Big cats have been seen where I live but I'm not worried about the horses, my OH has seen it crossing the road at night between Banbury & Bicester, it was also seen at the back of Bullingdon Prison by staff doing an evening wall check. 1 of the men who saw it used to be a game keeper so I trust him to know what he's talking about. These  incidents happened about 13 years ago so that cat has probably died by now but it sounds like they're breeding so if it had cubs they could still be around.

I hope they're left in peace to carry on living their secretive lives without trophy hunters hunting them down.


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## jojo2305 (5 June 2010)

One of our foals disappeared randomly from the field a couple of years back. We live in an area where big cat sightings are not unheard of as well. Unfortunately all we found were the bones two days later, nothing else left, down a steep gully close to the farm. Awful incident, there were a lot of sheep deaths around here that summer too.


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## kal40 (5 June 2010)

OMG - I am really shocked to hear all these stories. 

Where I live there arn't many woods, its just mainly oilseed rape and haylage fields.  It must be an awful feeling being out after dark in some of these places.


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## jinglejoys (5 June 2010)

I can lend you a mule if you like


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## rangerover (5 June 2010)

Same as Mike007, I remeber the Surrey Puma incidents and I saw "something" on the edge of Bramshill forest in the dusk many years ago.  It was big enough in it's presence to affect the horse who noticed it by instinct/smell/fear before I did, then when I looked across the undergrowth expecting to see a deer or muntjac there was something big and dark in there with a long tail, crouching down, defintieley not a dog and far too big to be a cat.  At the time, the Basingstoke Gazette were NOT interested, even though it was seen in a zone where you have to pay to ride.


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## Ravenwood (5 June 2010)

Gah - where did my reply disappear to?

Anyway, just to repeat, that poor horse, what shocking injuries 

I also wanted to add that we have big cats here and a sure tell tale sign is when you find part of a sheep carcass wedged up a tree.  Big cats like to take their catch and eat it up a tree in safety.

I can take you to a spot right now where there is an old bit of fleece still wedged in the fork of a tree.

I am absolutely adamant that I saw a big black cat twice recently - heading into the pheasant pens.  Its easy pickings for them here with 25,000 pheasants and 5,000 partridges put down every year on this farm alone.


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## TinselRider (5 June 2010)

Oh my goodness, poor horse  

Luckily we have not had any sitings of big cats where I keep the boys now but there were where I used to keep them...........You can imagine my stomach churn when I frequently founs sheep / goat legs in B's field


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## michelleice (5 June 2010)

i saw on probs discovery channel that the outbreak of cats was because in 60's/70's (i think) people started keeping exotic cats in the uk some couldn't afford to feed them so they just let them go over the years they bred there has been over 1million sighting of black cats i myself saw one when i was 12 walking dogs and we all ran 2 miles home! i tell ya i pooped my pants


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## DipseyDeb (5 June 2010)

boogles said:



			Oh my goodness, poor horse  

Luckily we have not had any sitings of big cats where I keep the boys now but there were where I used to keep them...........You can imagine my stomach churn when I frequently founs sheep / goat legs in B's field 

Click to expand...

Where on earth did you used to have them?? :0


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## dibbin (5 June 2010)

Bl**dy hell, poor horse! How could anyone think your horse did that - unless he's got claws?!

Hope the old boy makes a good recovery and can get out in his field again


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## kerilli (5 June 2010)

nasty injuries, poor horse must have been very shocked.
they are usually called Alien Big Cats (ABCs) in the UK, there's quite a lot of info about them online, pics etc. I heard one at night in my field when I lived in Staffs (scared the bejeezus out of me), and then neighbour's husband and son saw it the next morning when driving to work early, and postmistress saw it that day. I saw it a few days later in farmer's field when out hacking. His wife had seen one on Cannock Chase, about 15 miles away from where I lived at the time. Leics is a bit of a hotspot for sightings, appara.
I joined a group online to find out info of how to protect my horses. They said that putting rugs on is the best thing, as cats will be deterred by the fabric. If you're worried about them coming onto your yard for chickens, dogs etc (unlikely but possible i guess, farmer friend had 2 big fat geese taken from field right by farmhouse 1 night) then a, umm, 'perimeter sprinkle' of human urine is apparently a good deterrent... easier for men to do, obv!!! (wouldn't want to be surprised by an ABC while crouching with pants down!)  
One of the members of the group I joined lived in Wales, with fields bordered by forest. She'd lost a big ID foal over the fence, completely gone, mare was going mental and was a v protective big brave mare too... so, they are out there, we're just v lucky that they seldom attack horses.  I saw a horse in Northants that had been attacked, similar wounds to OP's horse.
Was also told that the ABCs use canals as 'motorways' to get around the country, and will often do a big long loop which takes a few years to do, reappearing occasionally, rather than being strictly territorial. Maybe this is just the males, I don't know.
Btw, Govt will not acknowledge that they exist because if they did, they'd have to pay out compensation to farmers for slaughtered sheep, I was told. 
You can't legally shoot one even if you see one (unless it is self-defence I guess) because you can't get a licence to shoot them in this country, because they don't exist...


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## MotherOfChickens (5 June 2010)

when I was a kid I lived in Epsom (70s), ponies were kept at a livery on the Hook Road which had a circus stay every year. Lions got out one year and killed one horse and another (lovely Hackney called Jack) was later PTS due to his injuries-the slashes look very similar to what I remember seeing on Jack although he had more of them. hope he's feeling more comfortable soon.


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## Fellewell (5 June 2010)

Those photos are absolutely stomach churning! Poor lad. Would a large cat have given up? Could this have been a large bird of prey?


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## reindeerlover (5 June 2010)

Fellewell said:



			Those photos are absolutely stomach churning! Poor lad. Would a large cat have given up? Could this have been a large bird of prey?
		
Click to expand...

What, you mean like a hippogriff off of Harry potter?


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## turkana (5 June 2010)

Fellewell said:



			Those photos are absolutely stomach churning! Poor lad. Would a large cat have given up? Could this have been a large bird of prey?
		
Click to expand...

A solitary preditor such as a leopard or jaguar can't risk getting injured so if it's prey fights back a lot it will give up so it can fight another day rather than risk an injury & starve.
I can't imagine what sort of bird would cause those injuries.


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## jaypeebee (5 June 2010)

Farrierlover said:



			What, you mean like a hippogriff off of Harry potter? 

Click to expand...

It might have been a pterodactyl. 

Poor horse it looks like a big cat attack to me too.


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## milo'n'molly (5 June 2010)

sorry for being dense. where are the photos


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## kittykatcat (5 June 2010)

Thanks for all your well wishes everyone  fingers crossed he'll make a full recovery.


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## Sheri (5 June 2010)

milo'n'molly said:



			sorry for being dense. where are the photos

Click to expand...

First page, about half way down there is a link to photobucket.

My friend told me about this and showed me the pics.... OMG that is terrible I've never seen or heard of anything like it - the scratches look so painful no wonder the poor thing wont go back in the field.

Thank god he is ok


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## Fellewell (5 June 2010)

turkana said:



			A solitary preditor such as a leopard or jaguar can't risk getting injured so if it's prey fights back a lot it will give up so it can fight another day rather than risk an injury & starve.
I can't imagine what sort of bird would cause those injuries.
		
Click to expand...

It's just a thought, but people do use birds of prey for hunting. Some of these people own eagles and it is not unknown for an eagle to attack a deer. We know only too well that there are irresponsible animal owners, it is possible that some of these birds could be in the wrong hands.


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## floradora09 (5 June 2010)

:O

i'll have fun next winter going down to feed ponies in the dark.... AHHHHHH


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## Minxie (5 June 2010)

Is the horse is still quidding?

If you haven't done so already it might be worth have a very good look around his mouth to make sure he's not broken a tooth, cut his cheeks etc - perhaps while trying to defend himself.  Mouth issues can become infected super fast and need expensive and lengthy treatment.

Poor horse - what ever the cause these injuries are awful.


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## Moggy in Manolos (5 June 2010)

Hope the poor old boy feels better soon about the attack.
Looks like very scary injuries, cannot think it would be anything else.
I saw a large black puma type cat back in wales one day where i grew up, it was a bit scary!thankfully it was a way away, but still it scared me


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## Ranyhyn (5 June 2010)

Farrierlover said:



			What, you mean like a hippogriff off of Harry potter? 

Click to expand...

Post of the day! FACT!!!


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## SO1 (5 June 2010)

No a bird of prey would not be interested in a horse they are far too big to be the natural food source for a bird of prey - they tend to go for rabbit size things that they can pick up and fly off with. 



Fellewell said:



			Those photos are absolutely stomach churning! Poor lad. Would a large cat have given up? Could this have been a large bird of prey?
		
Click to expand...


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## tiggycat (6 June 2010)

We live in North Essex, near to Braintree, that kind of way. My ex partner swore he saw a lynx sitting on the kerb near our lane, to the point where we went to the local police station and asked to speak to the wildlife liason officer and he confirmed that yes there have been lynx sightings.
Also a freind kept her horses in Stisted, small village and came one morning and found her old boy covered in scratches and very sweaty, dried though.
She called the vet and he said it was definately a big cat and that the horse had probably been laying sleeping when the cat attacked and then got up so no further injury.


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## potty_4_piebalds (6 June 2010)

Im in northampton and have heard stories of a big cat in the village where my horse is kept and i just laughed when i heard about it and asked if they had been drinking! but reading these posts maybe we have got a big  cat? 

Think i should start to bring my little girlie in at night she is only 32inch mini shetland!


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## xxxloz123 (6 June 2010)

Arrghh! I live in northampton! I know there was sightings in suffolk where I used to live! I was one of them! I am sure i saw a big black cat when i was walking through the local woods, no one would believe me! but i know a lot of people had seen it too! I know what I saw and it was NOT a dog. Not heard anything about any being spotted around northants though... Scarey stuff!!!


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## blacksabbeth (6 June 2010)

OMG!this is terrible,hope poor horse is ok!only just read this post and they would remind me of something a predator would do!Well heres something scary my horse is currently on a livery yard 10 mins from a zoo.Friend of mine did work experience at said zoo and big cat escaped then animal was darted and put back luckily(this was a few years ago).Y/O was telling few people in tack room the other day,that a farmer friend of his had found dead pigs and sheep in trees and also found a sheep with its back leg bitten clean off!!I am in kent and this has seriously scared me i can feel my hairs sticking up and strange butterflys in my belly!!!


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## cindars (7 June 2010)

Only just read this thread.  Last year I met a chap in our lane dressed in camoflage etc, and he told me he was from Sussex Big Cats and said there had been local sightings and on the Downs.   The site is quite intersting, not heard of anything being attacked though we do have quite a few deer in the area though.  Hope the poor old chap is getting better.


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## Tinsel Trouble (7 June 2010)

I have seen the black panther twice in my area in Suffolk.

Also several years ago my godparent's eventer in Aberdeenshire was attacked by a big cat. It jumped out of a tree onto it's back. Luckliy it was wearing a rug so the wounds were superficial.

I have heard of recent big cat attacks in Surrey- but only on sheep. Nothing more substantial.

Maybe you could set up a photo/ laser thingy and get some photos of it! You'd have to buy a big tin of cat food to tempt it back though!


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## cindars (9 June 2010)

After leaving yard yesterday saw the mobile unit for Sussex Big Cats didn't see the chap but would have asked him about recent attacks.  Will go on site today to have a look


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## Kenzo (9 June 2010)

Good god, how shocking looking at those photos (I can view them on face book cos I'm at home )

The poor poor horse, there is no way I'd ever presume a horse had done that, hope he recovers, mind you I doubt the poor creature will feel safe again going out.


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## kittykatcat (9 June 2010)

He's doing much better now - i've actually taken the decision to keep him out again at night as he was not eating anything in his stable overnight (due to quidding - vet cant find anything clinically wrong) so feel it's much better if he's out eating grass. He was cantering around the field yesterday (albeit running away from me and the dreaded fly spray and suncream) so i think he's feeling a lot better. He's certianly more settled in the field and has put on weight. He's still pretty spooky/scatty though, although i'm sure his eyesight is not great (although, again, confirmed fine by the vet!). Thanks for all your messages, i'll pass them on to him - if i can catch him


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## pedilia (9 June 2010)

Blimey they are some injuries!! Glad he's making a good recovery, there have been many big cat sightings around here, as well as reported livestock attacks, luckily no reported horse attacks.


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## HollyP (9 June 2010)

Gosh this is the most interesting post Iv read in a very long time on this forum!

Poor horse, I cant see the pictures as I am at work and photobucket has now apparently been blocked! Can anyone put them on the forum?

It is really scary, your very brave to be turning them both out in the same field so soon after! My sister has claimed for a few years that she say a black big cat cross the road driving home late one night with her partner (they lived around oakhampton) he didnt believe her but she swears it was, bigger than a black lab and moved like a cat...! 

Now gonna look at this website.


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## posie_honey (9 June 2010)

gosh only just seen this! how scary!
glad he's doing well now


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## doris2008 (9 June 2010)

Gosh! So scary. Poor lad. Glad to hear he is on the mend & feeling a bit braver again.
It's one of things I had vaguely heard about but never really believed. However reading all these replies it makes you realise there have been a lot of sightings!


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## littleme (9 June 2010)

Ahh thats a scary thought!! Have heard of large cat sightings in the area (surrey). 

I am sure I saw a wolf running across the common up on Ranmore (again surrey) last year but I am told you do not get wolves in the UK!!


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## pip6 (9 June 2010)

I can back up Okehampton. Saw one last year crossing on a bridge over the A30 (which I was driving down, gradient there lets you see ontop of the bridge). Broad daylight, no mistake.

The previous winter we had an 'incident' (halfway between Bodmin & Dartmoor). After turning out the 2 yearlings first (was pitch black, about 5.30am), I spotted eyes down the bottom of the field. Green eyes (so not dog/deer). Far to wide apart to be one of the yard cats, & when the head was raised too far from the ground to be badger. It was intently fixed on the girls, & not bothered by my torch (beam not strong enough to get a clear view of animal). I yelled for my friend to bring one of the dogs, & we set off down the field (about 30m) towards the eyes. It didn't run until we were half way down, then leaped the fence effortlessley & took off over the other fields very fast, clearing those fences. When the dog clocked it & its smell she went absolutely beserk. It then stopped, looked back at us, & decided to bugger off.

Now I wont leave a youngster without a healthy adult unless in the middle of the day. Only the biggest animals stay out at night on their own. 

Do know of a suspected attack couple of years ago about 5 miles from us on mare & foal. Foal untouched, but mare broke out of her field, over all the banks/hedges (which around here can be huge), ignored the gates just ran in a straight line. Found several miles later covered in scratched (not just where you would expect the hedges to have scratched her), vet couldn't explain. Had to be PTS few weeks alter. The owner said the weird thing was he heard a commotion, got to the field, found that she had gone & basically followed her trail. All the time he was following her there was NO STOCK left in the fields where they had been grazing beforehand, they had run away to adjoining fields. A galloping horse can be scary, but it wouldn't scare stock out of the fields.


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## 1Anastasia (9 June 2010)

Hi, I'm just outside Canterbury too and work for an organisation that specifically collects wildlife data (normally native but we do get the odd big cat report). We haven't heard anything directly but the local big cat group website does have a reported sighting of a black panther around Hersden/Upstreet on 19th April. I don't know if this is anywhere near you but if so then the big cat attack theory is most certainly a possibility.


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## FinkleyAlex (9 June 2010)

About 5 years ago when my boy was stabled in Epping Forest, I took him for a hack one day with my dad walking next to me into the forest but only about 25 mins from our yard. As we walked along the forest edge not too far from a road we could hear an animal in the growth following us. It was a horrible experience - the animal was making a really low growling noise. We thought it might be a boar or something as it grunted a little at times but I'm quite sure boars don't growl and don't quietly follow you. We didn't want to speed off as dad was on foot and fairly heavy so wouldn't be able to run fast and we didn't want whatever was making the noise to do anything drastic. Initially my boy picked up on it first - he became very nervous and kept looking into the forest and it wasn't untill about 10 mins later that we became aware of whatever it was. You could tell it was far too large to be a dog, and had a very deep growl. As soon as we were within sight of the yard we went as fast as possible towards it - later found our Epping forest is apparently famous for it's black cats.

There's also a village near me in Northaw (Herts) where a shetland was attacked twice by a big cat - there are pictures and articles online and it's happened with sheep. Apparently years back someone released three pumas into Cuffley woods and they've bred and are spotted everywhere from Northaw to Essex and everywhere inbetween - quite scary when it comes to hacking!


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## ischa (9 June 2010)

im not far from canterbury , and i havnt heard of anything ,but it so scary to think this has possibly happened . i know there where a couple of reports of black cats  in sheerness but that was  a while ago


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## _April_ (10 June 2010)

Kitsune said:



			Post of the day! FACT!!! 

Click to expand...


Agreed.   Made me snort out loud 




But aside from that - what a horrifying experience and I hope the poor old boy recovers.

I can't see the pics as am at work but I always thought these reports were an urban myth, to see so many of you with first hand accounts is a real eye opener.


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## danielle23 (10 June 2010)

2 years or so ago there was a few sightings near us, one i remember being at Hartoft, edge of the forestry/ north york moors, 10ish miles north of Pickering. 
Scary thought as the forestry is right outside ours house! But still only a few miles from the sightings, not far for a big cat to travel i shouldnt imagine!
Poor pony tho, hope he recovers as much as he can :/ will be scared forever bless


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## Orangehorse (10 June 2010)

Interesting point about the Cats doing a big loop and not being territorial.  My sister lives in the USA next to a forest, where she rides.  She has a lot of wildlife coming out of the forest and grazing in their paddock, but she says it isn't all that often, for instance a group of deer come about once a month and then move on.  Also the bears only come for a very few weeks one a year (horses decide, politely,  to go home if they see a bear!)

 So if the big cats do this as well it would explain why a local farmer might find some carcases in a field, but it doesn't get repeated night after night as the cat has moved on.  As well as moving down canals I expect they can move down motorways as well, although they might be a bit noisy.  The canals would be quiet and dark at night.

The sighting I know about (not a friend of a friend) was next door to an area of mixed farmland and woodland which is owned by the Police, so it not much visited by the general public, although it is farmed.  It is also bordering a canal.  A nice quiet place for an animal to livefor a time.


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## Mynyddcymro (10 June 2010)

I found this post incredibly interesting too!
There's been several sightings of big cats here in Shropshire too. One just down the road from me and I live in a relatively built up housing estate although it's bordered with fields etc. One big cat was even apparently spotted on a large roundabout nearby.
One of my dads workmates had two Shetlands when he was younger and both were killed by a big cat. I've also heard of a terrier being killed by one. 
But never witnessed one first hand. I'd quite like to see one from a distance!


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## Sparkly (11 June 2010)

My horse had a suspected "big cat" attack several years ago in the West Midlands.
He was found very distressed in his field early one morning, covered in sweat with scratch/ slash marks down both flanks.  There was nothing in the field he could have done them on.  The vet needed 87 staples to put his skin wounds back together
He has since been terrified in the dark and has "panic attacks" - he is completely calm and then his eyes "glaze" and he bolts to nearest "safety" i.e. his stable or field companions.  He is also now scared of dogs and small ponies (he is about 17.2!)

My vets are convinced it was a big cat attack.


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## philippagrainger (11 June 2010)

Looking at the photos I'd be inclined to agree with you about the big cat theory.

If anyone's ever watched on tv lions, cheetahs etc hunting, they will know that they try to bring down the animal by climbing on its rear end to force the animal to sit down on its back legs, hence the scratched around the rump area.  They will also try and hang on round its neck for the same reason as they aren't big enough to jump directly onto the horse/prey/s back.


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## wench (11 June 2010)

Maybe Black Shuck has wandered off from Suffolk?


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## pip6 (11 June 2010)

Good safety measure is to have a few sheep in the field or close by. The act as 'sacrificial lambs' so to speak in being an easier target.


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## ilovecobs (11 June 2010)

Omg, that's genuinely scary! when i read the title, typical me i thought you meant like a normal cat gone mad or something, I do wander where these cats got away from! poor horse I hope its alright!


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## stacey_lou (11 June 2010)

ilovecobs said:



			Omg, that's genuinely scary! when i read the title, typical me i thought you meant like a normal cat gone mad or something, I do wander where these cats got away from! poor horse I hope its alright!
		
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They hadnt gotton away from anywhere not really, Many years ago it was fashionable for rich people to have big cats as pets and when they got to big to handle and the fashion wore out they didnt know what to do with them so they simply let them free into the wild and since then I suppose they have bread and learnt to adapt. They are cleaver animals


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## izzyw (11 June 2010)

This is really ineresting. Last year I brought my horse in from the field and he had gash marks across his chest similar to your horse's, although he had less. At first i was really worried as i thought he'd stabbed or something (it sounds silly but i was really paranoid and i wasn't sure what had caused the wound! and also the scratches were around his chest area..). the scratches were in groups of four/ five and had quite rough edges and one required stitches.. it was not a pretty sight. luckily my horse was not too affected and was fine to be ridden / go back into his beloved  field pretty soon after (couple of days). 

however, although we are in the countryside, we are not in that much of a rural area in hampshire, there is a dual carriageway and layby about 3/4 mile away from the field. the majority of the land is used for farming (all arable)...so perhaps not rural enough for wild cats.. perhaps more likely some wild crazy dog?!?! 

we just left it like that and just thought he had managed to bizaarly catch himself on the electric fencing?!... although the height of the fencing is quite different to where the gashes were. 
hope it doesn't happen again..!!


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## Wulfie (23 October 2010)

My friends and I where chased by one through a cornfield once on foot, luckily we where right by the footpath to the houses so as we ran up the path it got spooked and turned tail, I'll never forget it though. Flash of black and the sound of pawsteps as we try to flatten the corn to sit in. People basically buy big cats as cubs and think they are super cool pets, then when they get to big and dangerous, the release them, around my area was very popular for dumping them, we had two dumped in hextable, one was the one that chased us, we where only around 10 at the time! The best thing for them is to have a young horse in the field and electric fencing, if there is a horse in the field that will fight for the herd the cat will not attack. Plus electric fencing will give it a good old zap and send it howling x


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## EAST KENT (23 October 2010)

This area..of east kent is a real hotspot for black leopards.Some twenty years ago four sheep were killed in a night a couple of fields away from me,we did pic them,all had their throats and necks and part of the shoulder eaten away.A big cat kills with a strangle throat hold,so I guess it just ate away from that point.There was no scattering of wool tufts as in a dog attack.

 In the last couple of years I have seen a big cat twice around my home,and other locals almost commonly see them .

 The keepers at Howlets zoo came here once to collect a dead pig,and one of them was the black leopard keeper.They both had seen cats ..and not in the Zoo either. In fact we did think of some leopard bedding from an in season female plus a night.time "movement sensitive" camera would be fun to do one day.

They appear fearless,almost insolent..but so beautiful! I hope they are left alone to add some glamour to our wildlife,certainly they are well established. By the way,they like dog meat yum yum. So don`t send Rover off to chase it away!


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## Montyforever (23 October 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			This area..of east kent is a real hotspot for black leopards.Some twenty years ago four sheep were killed in a night a couple of fields away from me,we did pic them,all had their throats and necks and part of the shoulder eaten away.A big cat kills with a strangle throat hold,so I guess it just ate away from that point.There was no scattering of wool tufts as in a dog attack.

 In the last couple of years I have seen a big cat twice around my home,and other locals almost commonly see them .

 The keepers at Howlets zoo came here once to collect a dead pig,and one of them was the black leopard keeper.They both had seen cats ..and not in the Zoo either. In fact we did think of some leopard bedding from an in season female plus a night.time "movement sensitive" camera would be fun to do one day.

They appear fearless,almost insolent..but so beautiful! I hope they are left alone to add some glamour to our wildlife,certainly they are well established. By the way,they like dog meat yum yum. So don`t send Rover off to chase it away!
		
Click to expand...

I know what you mean! This areas certainly a hot spot 

I used to walk to my yard through the woods and twice i saw a black leopard, once through a wire fence (probably couldnt hold it but still felt ok to stand and watch it for a while!) it seemed to be looking for a hole in the fence then saw me and legged it!
And another time it was stalking me and my little pony (11hh) through the wire fence. It was at quite a distance but pony bolted for home, and i just turned to face it and walked backwards away (had looked up what to do after the first time! ) and it wandered off. 

So so scary to come across them, but they are so gorgeous!


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## Enfys (23 October 2010)

Hope that the horse recovers, pretty scary, but having predators around becomes a fact of life. I think that the best defence is probably knowledge.

I think it was PF who once put up photos of the 'Guard Mule' they had at her yard who would go for pumas. Donkeys and mules are used here as deterrents against coyotes and wolves because they have an attack rather than flee mentality (as shown by that famous clip of the mule and the puma)
Mules and donkeys that are not 'dog friendly' are well prized in sheep country. Guardian dogs like the Akbash and the Maremma are popular for sheep and goat operations.

I leave my horses out at night but the goats come in as I have watched the coyotes watching me from 50' away on the edge of our forest. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we had cats here, to be honest though meeting a bear would worry me a great deal more.


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## reddie (23 October 2010)

Hope the horse has recovered.  A horse that was at the same livey yard as my friend  was attacked.  It was foun sweatng profusely, and gashes all over it and people thought that maybe a big cat had attacked it  Also interestingly the yard is near a canal


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## EmmaB (23 October 2010)

Hope your horse gets better soon, those scratches certainly don't look like another horse could have caused them!!
I live by cannock chase and theres loads of stories and a big cat being in there, I've heard of horses in the area being attacked too, apparently one horse was attacked in its stable and they found the whole stable trashed with the back wall smashed up...so maybe they've got a better chance of fighting anything off out in the field?? Rather than being trapped? Dunno how true this story was though cause theres load of them!


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## mcnaughty (23 October 2010)

Certainly have not been done by a horse but none of the scratches look like claw marks either - they are not parallel to each other.

Do you have any trees/bushes that could have done it.


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## Kaylum (23 October 2010)

Did the horse have dripping blood on it?  Just wondered as surely they would have ripped through the skin?  

Poor horse must be terrified.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (23 October 2010)

We saw a big cat just up the road from here .... this was a few years ago and I was with my mum on a Sunday morning going up one of the lanes. We've had both a black cat AND a black dog (Labrador), so know how both sorts move and the differences between them, sizes etc!

This was definately a CAT. It moved like a cat, had the powerful shoulders/padding movement of a big cat, and the tail of a cat. It was definitely bigger than a labrador, more like a Great Dane size, but longer and more sleek and graceful in its movement.

I saw one of the local farmers at this time and he said he'd seen it too. 

We live in East Devon.

Also .... hate to scare anyone, BUT apparently there is another danger "out there" and that is exotic snakes being released into the wild coz people can't cope with them. Although last winter as it was so cold should have killed them off. The person that told me this is an experienced snake-keeper and there is concern that this is happening - so pray for another cold winter if you hate snakes!!!!


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## jinglejoys (23 October 2010)

There's one that seems to travell between kidderminster/Evesham/Henley area it had at least two cubs though one disappeared.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (23 October 2010)

one of our show ponies had a hind fetlock almost totally bitten through, this is going back 6 years. vet and big cat expert confirmed it as a cat bite. pony did make a total recovery, and for a few years all was quiet. then approx 3 years ago we noticed large footprints in appearing in the wash box overnight and again the big cat expert confirmed a young panther. for nearly 4 montsh it did the same circuit of the wash box every night(could see prints clearly as had obv walked though the muddy field to get to yard). horses in the yard never seemed unsettled or upset and there were no more attacks, cat man said it was just walking the boundary of its territory and not hunting.then it went quiet again.

just recently we have noticed large poo piles in the field, far too big to be even the biggest of dogs. have sent it off to be analysed but i suspect the big cat is back. fortunately mine are never out at night after what happened to the pony.

atm im not *too* worried, iv never come close to one, and have never felt threatened, sometimes when emptying the wheelbarrow late at nigh, in the pitch black i do get that *hair standing up ohmygod im being watched* feeling, but deep breath and keep walking, as far as im aware there are no reported attacks on humans so again, not hugely worried.

this is leics, east mids btw.


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## cmarychapman (23 October 2010)

Also .... hate to scare anyone, BUT apparently there is another danger "out there" and that is exotic snakes being released into the wild coz people can't cope with them. Although last winter as it was so cold should have killed them off. The person that told me this is an experienced snake-keeper and there is concern that this is happening - so pray for another cold winter if you hate snakes!!!![/QUOTE]

Yup, someone dumped a fully grown python in a canal in Stroud, Glos a couple of months back. Imagine finding that in your garage or garden shed. Eeek!


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## Enfys (23 October 2010)

cmarychapman said:



			Also .... hate to scare anyone, BUT apparently there is another danger "out there" and that is exotic snakes being released into the wild coz people can't cope with them. Although last winter as it was so cold should have killed them off. The person that told me this is an experienced snake-keeper and there is concern that this is happening - so pray for another cold winter if you hate snakes!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Yup, someone dumped a fully grown python in a canal in Stroud, Glos a couple of months back. Imagine finding that in your garage or garden shed. Eeek![/QUOTE]

Snakes will survive winter, mostly they find somewhere under cover (back end of haybarns, muck heaps etc) and hibernate there. Fortunately we only have one poisonous snake here, but I have a compost heap that is home to dozens of garter snakes, they curl up in a big ball and hibernate. Snakes are harmless enough if you leave them be, if you find one that isn't a native then a quick call to the RSPCA will sort it out, they'll come running!

I'd be more cautious about finding released turtles, if a snapping turtle turns on you then you know about it! Those devils are nasty. Cold weather won't kill them either, they simply dig in and sit the winter out.


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## PapaFrita (23 October 2010)

enfys said:



			I think it was PF who once put up photos of the 'Guard Mule' they had at her yard who would go for pumas. Donkeys and mules are used here as deterrents against coyotes and wolves because they have an attack rather than flee mentality (as shown by that famous clip of the mule and the puma)
		
Click to expand...

Yep, twas me. The mares and foals are turned out with a mule as a mule can easily see a big cat off, if not kill it! We have pumas near the yard. I saw it once as I was leaving; it bounced across the road in front of me. Luckily it never attacked any of the horses but our neighbours did lose a foal and also several sheep and goats. I recently heard from a friend in Argentina that the yard mule was bitten by a snake apparently defending a yearling that also got bitten. Sadly the yearling (not mine thank GOD!) died


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## sallywhoa (23 October 2010)

Uuugh.   Those pics look exactly like what a mountain lion/puma attack looks like on a horse.

I live in an area thats infested with mtn. lions.   About 10 years ago, there was a plague of them in the small town up the mountainside.  Children weren't allowed to walk home from the bus stop because of it.   NINE were killed in town that winter.   Where I live, there are large herds of feral horses/mustangs.   I've seen dozens and dozens of mustangs in one area with attack marks like your horse has.   Sorry, you have a cat problem.

They will attack a horse on their own, they will attack one in a paddock.   They will kill people, dogs, guard donkeys.   For the most part, they don't like dogs but it depends on how hungry they are.   Many are old, sick or toothless and their standards of risk lower with desperation.

It's unfortunate that your govt. won't admit there's a problem... the UK seems like ideal habitat for a big cat population to thrive.   Even though its illegal there, I'd have no problem shooting one I found coming after my animals.   In the US thats called the 3S policy -  "Shoot, Shovel and Shut Up".  It's applied when you have a threat that you KNOW the govt. won't deal with.

I don't have a vendetta against big cats, but have some experience with them.   I've been stalked by mtn. lions while in the field for work and seen several bobcats (like lynxs... they're cute!)   My family hunts big game quite a bit, and I have a cousin that used to raise lion and bear dogs.   Mtn. lion hunting is very common around here and they are in no danger of being eliminated, in fact, I think they're thriving.  I shudder to think how many people and animals will have to suffer in the UK before the govt. allows them to be dealt with.


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## devilwoman (23 October 2010)

Absolutley shocking photos, its a wonder the shock didn't kill the poor lad, hope he recovers x


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## EAST KENT (23 October 2010)

Sorry but I,for one,do not want any trigger happy twits taking shots at our big cats,nothing is more dangerous than a wounded big cat.Learn to live with them,admire them ..and consider it a privilege to actually see one. Leopards only get seen if they mean to be,and quite often will just "tree" rather than risk any trouble.

 Leave them alone I say!


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## Cinnamontoast (23 October 2010)

Ouch, poor horse!

Coming out of the woods one day, I saw a huge black cat-no idea what it was. Panther, maybe?


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## PapaFrita (23 October 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			Sorry but I,for one,do not want any trigger happy twits taking shots at our big cats,nothing is more dangerous than a wounded big cat.Learn to live with them,admire them ..and consider it a privilege to actually see one. Leopards only get seen if they mean to be,and quite often will just "tree" rather than risk any trouble.

 Leave them alone I say!

Click to expand...

I've lived with a puma in close proximity. YO takes sensible precautions (mule and dogs) and we've had no trouble from her. Pumas are usually very shy and will avoid humans. HOWEVER, if I saw her go after my horse, I'd do what I had to do to protect my horse. Wouldn't you??


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## xmanda90x (23 October 2010)

Scary stuff, hope horse is recovering well, must have been terrified poor thing. 
I live on the outskirts of Dartmoor and over the years there have been numerous reports of big cat sightings dotted around and some attacks on sheep, luckily none on horses, but I suppose given the choice any predator would go for the more vulnerable prey. 
I do remember one ocassion a couple of years back when a big cat escaped from the local wildlife park. Everyone around was alerted to take care in the surrounding lanes and wooded areas where it was likely to try and hide. Remeber everyone thinking that as it was a captive animal used to humans being quite near it may not be as wary or quick to flee if disturbed by humans. Luckily it was caught quite quickly though!


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## jinglejoys (23 October 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			Sorry but I,for one,do not want any trigger happy twits taking shots at our big cats,nothing is more dangerous than a wounded big cat.Learn to live with them,admire them ..and consider it a privilege to actually see one. Leopards only get seen if they mean to be,and quite often will just "tree" rather than risk any trouble.

 Leave them alone I say!

Click to expand...

   Pretty little harmless pussy cat!And of coarse foxes don't kill chickens.Isn't it funny how the towns folk all think foxes etc are great until they start causing problems in the town after all its only chickens and a poulty keepers livelyhood...big cats kill a lot more than chickens and when its your cattle,sheep goats,but then domestic livestock don't matter!
    Maybe we should wait till they start moving into the towns before we start doing anything


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## Jinete12 (23 October 2010)

Scary stuff. I've never seen one, but my horse is stabled at the back of a safari park and sometimes in the mornings when I can hear the lions roaring or the wolves howling, I wonder what would happen if one escaped and a shiver runs down my spine. I hope the poor horse recovers quickly.


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## miss_bird (23 October 2010)

Crumbs hope the pony recovers soon.
I always thought the sightings were just people imagining things, but after all the posts on here about them, i totaly believe that many big cats are living and breeding well in the UK countryside


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## Dizzle (24 October 2010)

enfys said:



			Fortunately we only have one poisonous snake here,
		
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Venomous snake...

In regards to Stroud, the python is the least of your worries... I saw a man with a mullet there once!

I think thought the real mystery is... 'why on earth every camera pointed at a 'big cat' looses the ability to zoom and focus'?!


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## kerilli (24 October 2010)

Dizzle said:



			Venomous snake...

In regards to Stroud, the python is the least of your worries... I saw a man with a mullet there once!

I think thought the real mystery is... 'why on earth every camera pointed at a 'big cat' looses the ability to zoom and focus'?!
		
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Operator funk?


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## Snickers (24 October 2010)

Definately not a horse or dog, as dogs go for the belly/stifle area and throat, whereas a cat will instinctively go for the withers and hindquarters! Those scratches look so eerily like injuries inflicted by a big cat, could you not contact the police/RSPCA and see if they can do anything?


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## Choccy*Dun (24 October 2010)

Dizzle said:



			In regards to Stroud, the python is the least of your worries... I saw a man with a mullet there once!
QUOTE]

^^^ That really made me smile Dizzle! 

On another note, really horrified to hear everyone's stories and fingers crossed that the poor pony that the OP is talking about makes a full recovery soon x
		
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## sallywhoa (24 October 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			Sorry but I,for one,do not want any trigger happy twits taking shots at our big cats,nothing is more dangerous than a wounded big cat.Learn to live with them,admire them ..and consider it a privilege to actually see one. Leopards only get seen if they mean to be,and quite often will just "tree" rather than risk any trouble.

 Leave them alone I say!

Click to expand...


It's all well and good till you walk out the front door and find on stalking your grandchild playing in the yard as one of my friends did.    The same cat (an older, large tom in decline - which would account for the risks he took) came back later and got the family dog that was chained up outside.   How much is acceptable?  How much money are you willing to donate in dead livestock?   While you haven't had real problems in the UK with cats attacking people, it DOES happen in the US.   If they are trying to shred horses alive, why wouldn't one take a person if they had a good opportunity?   

I've been stalked.   I have friends that have as well over here.  It give you a different perspective when you have to walk backward - facing one so it doesn't snap your neck - half a mile back to the truck.

Some documentation.   They WILL eat people.      (graphic pictures on link)  http://www.cougarinfo.org/attacks3.htm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6F3qXo9G40

Closed circuit of a mtn lion stealing a lamb from a pen.    

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUPqkc8Jjk4


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## EAST KENT (24 October 2010)

sallywhoa said:



			It's all well and good till you walk out the front door and find on stalking your grandchild playing in the yard as one of my friends did.    The same cat (an older, large tom in decline - which would account for the risks he took) came back later and got the family dog that was chained up outside.   How much is acceptable?  How much money are you willing to donate in dead livestock?   While you haven't had real problems in the UK with cats attacking people, it DOES happen in the US.   If they are trying to shred horses alive, why wouldn't one take a person if they had a good opportunity?   

I've been stalked.   I have friends that have as well over here.  It give you a different perspective when you have to walk backward - facing one so it doesn't snap your neck - half a mile back to the truck.

Some documentation.   They WILL eat people.      (graphic pictures on link)  http://www.cougarinfo.org/attacks3.htm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6F3qXo9G40

Closed circuit of a mtn lion stealing a lamb from a pen.    

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUPqkc8Jjk4

Click to expand...

Well it does`nt happen here,we,as a nation are not quite so quick to shoot anything that moves,owning rifles capable of downing a leopard EFFICIENTLY are def not licensed except in exceptional circumstances. Providing it is only the occasional sheep we mostly welcome these fabulous animals,and trigger happy twits would be sorted by our police long before any big cats.

 They have been very local `round here for some forty years,and even a friend rolling home from the pub in the early hours on meeting Felix ,just stopped..so did the cat..and then both of them turned heel and kept walking.

 I take the same attitude as with my resident country foxes,leave my hens alone..and I`ll leave you alone too.However ,any hens that snuff it are left out in the field for Charlie`s supper.As for Felix,it is exactly the same ,but then very few are even likely to have the privilege of seeing him,let alone taking a pot shot ..thank God!

  As for the other poster calling me,of all people ,a bunny hugging townee is a huge huge joke..I am in fact a rampent field sport addict and have been on EVERY one of the Marches against the Hunting Act.And ,by the way,never have lived even with close neighbours....middle of nowhere is just fine.It does not mean you want to kill everything though,in fact hunting /shooting are forms of conservation.


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## Tonty Tont (24 October 2010)

jinglejoys said:



			There's one that seems to travell between kidderminster/Evesham/Henley area it had at least two cubs though one disappeared.
		
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Oh god, jinglejoys you've terrified me now  My boy is out at night, with a field that backs onto a bog/wood. Im about a mile away from kidderminster, and was reading this thinking thank god, they're no-where near me!

I hope the poor horse recovers, isn't it scary to think these powerful preadators are out there


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## Alec Swan (24 October 2010)

I think that Big Cats are a bit like Ghosts,  in that I have very serious doubts,  and I've given it a great deal of thought.  I am prepared to keep an open mind,  however.

Consider the facts,  the pros and cons of which I've rather jumbled up,  though unintentionally;

There have been reported sightings since the late 1800s and they have even been seen on the Isle of Wight.

I know of a woman who keeps goats,  here in Norfolk,  and one Sunday morning,  she called her husband as a black cat,  of about 8' in length was sitting on the roof of her goat house,  peering in.  They both stood,  at their back door,  for a couple of minutes,  watching as it was trying to find a way in to the goats.  Eventually,  the creature saw them and slipped away.  This would have been in the early 1990s.

It has been a legal requirement to have a licence to keep a dangerous animal,  since I believe,  the late 1980s.  Very few people have the facilities to keep a puma,  without others being aware of it's existence.  The idea that big cats have been turned loose,  by bored owners,  is silly.  It did happen once,  and it was done by a man who was about to spend a while at Her Majesties pleasure.  The cat was released in Scotland,  and subsequently shot.

There has been the odd escapee,  from zoos,  but these have been accounted for,  mostly by shooting.  There was also the case of the Beast of the Moors,  down in the West Country,  during,  I think,  the 1980s.  The army were called in,  but as far as I know,  the question of its existence was never resolved.

The reports of BCs,  appear on a regular basis.  The problem which I have is that for the last 100+ years,  there has been no reliable evidence.  If these beasts are still living wild,  in England,  then presumably they are breeding.  There seems to be no evidence,  which I've seen to support the fact that a female big cat,  with her cubs has ever been seen,  and there seems to be no evidence,  of the undoubtable damage which she would do in the feeding of her offspring. They can't be in "pride" proportions,  so just how do the male and female find each other,  when they must live hundreds of miles apart?

I've never heard of BCs being moved,  or seen on either a shoot day,  or by hounds.  I've spent my life,  within a sporting environment,  and I've yet to speak with a game keeper who's seen footprints,  or any evidence.  

Entirely sane and normal people who I've spoken to have reported sightings,  and I'm not accusing others of fabricating silly tales,  but what I don't understand is why so many who live,  in part and often nocturnal lives,  never see them.  If there are so many,  then why don't we see more evidence of them feeding?  Why do there appear to be so many,  when after 25 years of local authority licensing requirements,  the bulk of those BCs alive in the late 1980s would by now have died of old age.

I'm going to take some convincing!!

Alec.

Ets,  whether these cats,  if seen should be shot,  or not,  is a different debate.  What I would say is that to do so would call for CF rifle,  and an experienced shot.  Wounding would be a very real risk,  and should be unthinkable. a.


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## sallywhoa (24 October 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			Well it does`nt happen here,we,as a nation are not quite so quick to shoot anything that moves,owning rifles capable of downing a leopard EFFICIENTLY are def not licensed except in exceptional circumstances. Providing it is only the occasional sheep we mostly welcome these fabulous animals,and trigger happy twits would be sorted by our police long before any big cats.

 They have been very local `round here for some forty years,and even a friend rolling home from the pub in the early hours on meeting Felix ,just stopped..so did the cat..and then both of them turned heel and kept walking.

 I take the same attitude as with my resident country foxes,leave my hens alone..and I`ll leave you alone too.However ,any hens that snuff it are left out in the field for Charlie`s supper.As for Felix,it is exactly the same ,but then very few are even likely to have the privilege of seeing him,let alone taking a pot shot ..thank God!

  As for the other poster calling me,of all people ,a bunny hugging townee is a huge huge joke..I am in fact a rampent field sport addict and have been on EVERY one of the Marches against the Hunting Act.And ,by the way,never have lived even with close neighbours....middle of nowhere is just fine.It does not mean you want to kill everything though,in fact hunting /shooting are forms of conservation.
		
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I am not a "trigger-happy twit".   When it comes to defending oneself or property/livestock, the police are worthless.  If they DO come out, by the time they get there, the damage will be done.  I guess its hard for me, living in a different country, to just embrace the concept of being helpless victims as acceptable.   I am no gun-toting vigilante, but I have had to shoot stray dogs that were killing my sheep.   Whats the alternative?   Dead sheep.  The police do nothing, the owners do nothing... 

I guess people have different notions of "beauty".   If I lived in the UK, and my horse came in from the pasture looking like the OP's horse, I wouldn't think the creature that did it was "beautiful" or noble any more than if it was a person that slashed the animal.

I agree with you that if the predator is leaving your animals alone, it should be left alone.   But that doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.   Whats the answer?    If its to do nothing, then it would be much more humane to put the horse down NOW than to allow its throat torn out or die from a slow infection from its wounds.

As far as rifles capable of killing a big cat, it doesn't take much.   They aren't very tough animals compared to predators like a bear or a wolf.   ( African lions are different, as are leopards, I am referring to the puma/lynx/bobcat/panther size) Their lungs and heart are small and even the slightest injury to either can be fatal.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight, just trying to figure out why people think its acceptable for livestock to be sacrificed so cruelly to a feral, non-native predator?   They are native here and cause alot of problems, not something to passed off as no big deal.   It was a big deal to that horse.


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## natalia (25 October 2010)

If you do your research one was actually hit by a bus a couple of years ago. Th army turned up and removed its body and it became classified! I think even when out hunting its perfectly possible, you don't hunt the whole country after all and big cats are masters of laying low, they would probably go up a tree and hide till everyone went past. They also move near silently and I can imagine that most hounds if they ran in to them would go in the opposite direction! my theory is if we couldn't find Raul Moat who was a fat geordie in a tent in our country side for three days what chance do we stand against finding a big cat who really won't want to be found?!


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## cindars (25 October 2010)

Our chap from the SussexBig Cat group is still walking the area every so often and leaves a card on the signpost.


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## EAST KENT (25 October 2010)

natalia said:



			If you do your research one was actually hit by a bus a couple of years ago. Th army turned up and removed its body and it became classified! I think even when out hunting its perfectly possible, you don't hunt the whole country after all and big cats are masters of laying low, they would probably go up a tree and hide till everyone went past. They also move near silently and I can imagine that most hounds if they ran in to them would go in the opposite direction! my theory is if we couldn't find Raul Moat who was a fat geordie in a tent in our country side for three days what chance do we stand against finding a big cat who really won't want to be found?!
		
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Oh that`s interesting,wherabouts did one cop it with a bus? Guns in this country are not normally held by ordinary people,a very good reason would have to be given for a decent caliber weapon to be licensed.In this country you are not even allowed to beat up a burgler,or even someone threatening you.That is the way it is.We are far too crowded an island for issue of firearms with long ranges,remembering that even beyond it`s accurate range a bullet keeps on travelling,and capable of killing anyone in it`s way.

 Here,a guy had a pretty long jail term for firing off a shotgun vaguely at two burglers in his isolated home a few years back.As the burglers had travelled 60 miles to do the job and were multiple offenders you`d have thought it would be ok for him..but no it was not.We are also not allowed to leave a guard dog loose,even within a compound fence,without it`s handler there at all times.The law here seems always on the side of the offender,but that is the way it is.
  These black leopards are non confrontational to humans,have`nt caused any offence to anything except the occasional farm animal,in fact are very rarely even seen.I keep horses,sheep and mini pigs in an area which is a very "hot spot" for these cats,and no trouble at all.The farmers `round here are just interested on seeing one,but certainly I have never met anyone wishing these cats any harm whatsoever..in fact I do believe they would be extremely annoyed if any hot head tried to interfere with "their" big cat.

  I can well remember wanting to go riding in Ontario once,and it was absolutely forbidden as it was "deer shooting week" in the forests and very dangerous for anyone with bullets and trigger happy canadians about. Heaven forbid our little country ever gets like that.


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## natalia (25 October 2010)

www.britishbigcats.org but their site appears down at the moment. It I think was a lynx (spotty looking thing with tufty ears ) and was hit somewhere in Scotland. There are a couple of photos of the body but all evidence and reports somehow were "mislaid" after the army warned those at the scene to keep mouths shut. Because these animals "don't exist" officially in britain, any real evidence of them is swept under the carpet rather quickly, this is probably too not only protect them from gun toting trophy hunting maniacs but also to stop public outcry/fear. 
oh and this site make for interesting reading- http://bigcatsinbritaintriggercamerablog.blogspot.com/


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## Panther Hunter (26 October 2010)

FAO Sallywhoa

In your post you describe having indeginous big cats as being infested and then a plague. You go on to say that you have no trouble in shooting them and then being quiet about this fact.

Remember the moutain lions/cougars/pumas where there before you where. In actual fact it is humans who have encroached on their habitat and hence thats why they are now more widely seen. 

But hey, they are a nusiance to us and lets shoot them, doesn't matter if another species is made extinct because there existence isn't convenient. Lynx were once indeginous in Britian as well and there has long been talk of re introducing them.   

Maybe people should learn to share our planet with all creatures. Having a big cat live in your neighbourhood isn't a bad thing? Certainly, not a crreature that was there long before you were.

Sorry for the rant, but it is this attitude which makes my blood boil. 

PS I hope the horse has made a full recovery.


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## Enfys (26 October 2010)

Dizzle said:



			Venomous snake...Quite right There are several species of pit viper here so the info tells me, not just the massasauga.

The only _poisonous_ snakes we have go by the common name of the "One Eyed Trouser" 

I think thought the real mystery is... 'why on earth every camera pointed at a 'big cat' looses the ability to zoom and focus'?!
		
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   My excuse is that it was probably about -20 at the time and I would have been barefoot on the back doorstep. I don't think we have big cats here, but the odd black bear gets lost and wanders down the river and these sit 100' from the house and watch the barns regularly.
We did have the hunters out in Spring as a pack was picking off small dogs in the area. Generally though we don't worry about them anymore than we do foxes, I love hearing them at night although I do wish they wouldn't set every dog within miles off baying back at them.


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## Montyforever (26 October 2010)

sallywhoa said:



			I guess people have different notions of "beauty".   If I lived in the UK, and my horse came in from the pasture looking like the OP's horse, I wouldn't think the creature that did it was "beautiful" or noble any more than if it was a person that slashed the animal.
		
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Yes, but a predator is just that - by nature! Its in their heads to hunt to survive you cant blame them for trying! Thats like saying if you left your rabbit running around in the garden and a fox killed it that fox is wrong? But its not its just doing whats natural!

A human doesnt have to hunt to eat, they wouldnt be planning to eat your horse to survive. They dont need to hurt your horse, they just do it for fun/a game whatever these sickos do it for! 

I personally think the big cats should be left be, if your worried about your horses turn them out in herds with electric fencing or bring them in at night! I think people take it for granted and think theres not any big predators in this country, we used to have wolves at one point to! They are a million times more likely to harm your horse than a lone big cat!


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## Enfys (26 October 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			I can well remember wanting to go riding in Ontario once,and it was absolutely forbidden as it was "deer shooting week" in the forests and very dangerous for anyone with bullets and trigger happy canadians about. Heaven forbid our little country ever gets like that.
		
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We aren't as bad as that It is only one week at a time, everybody wears hi viz and it is no hardship to stay out of the woods, I am sure that you would have been mighty fed up if you had gotten shot at, so quite sensible precautions really. 

Hunting here is traditional, bit like the jolly old fox hunt in Britain although deer hunting actually puts meat in the freezer Oh, and gun licensing is quite strict, you have to attend a course for the animal you wish to hunt, and you need a permit to shoot a quota of deer, unless you are a poacher of course in which case you shoot anything that moves, as poachers worldwide are wont to do.

You are right about Britain being little though, Ontario is five times greater in area than Great Britain (incidentally about the third most populated island in the *world*) population of the Province is about 13 million, give or take a few, to the UKs 60 million or so, we have quite a lot of space to go round here, room for everyone.


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## michelleice (26 October 2010)

big cats are supposed to be ones let lose when i  the 60's(i think it was) there was a craze of exotic pets in britain where you could buy/own any animal and cats were a favorite, not knowing what they cost to feed they were released into the wild by owners who couldn't afford them and left to breed. that is theory anyways


Ive seen one from the back both dogs were terrified it ran away from us, plenty sheep attacked in Scotland but never heard of a horse. 


America i think for shooting is completely different to us in America they are there in massive numbers so are desperate to keep there territory and used to human so will attack as and when they want. British cats are more timid would rather hide and probably only "show" themselves after stalking you to see if your pray.

dont disagree with shooting them if you are attacked in America but dont think they need hunted in UK


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## kittykatcat (26 October 2010)

Hi all, OP here 

Ooo i didnt realise this was going to turn in to a debate about hunting them down! For what it's worth, even though i have seen the damage they can do first hand, I wouldnt want to see them hunted down at all. Considering the 'mob culture' we have here, it would be horrendous, probably end up in teenagers murdering normal moggies because they thought it was a larger than average cat. No no no, definately not.

The horse is fully recovered now - fine out in the field, back to his normal scatty self! Had no more scratches appear on any of the horses so fingers crossed its moved on. 

It's very interesting to hear how many people have had experiences with big cats!


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## lialls (26 October 2010)

Glad to hear that the horse has made a full recovery


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## hannah87 (26 October 2010)

A friends horse was found dead in his field about a month ago - in North Yorkshire, covered in very similar wounds, and no other horse in field with him. The post mortem revealed heart attack with no explanation for the wounds. Sounds very similar


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## EAST KENT (26 October 2010)

I have little doubt that had a horse dropped dead with a heart attack our Felix would not have missed out on a tasty meal.The throat would have been crushed,even if the horse was dying instinct would have made it throttle it just to make sure.When you are next out riding look up into big trees..you may catch a glimpse of a cat resting up there,and it will be your privilege to be another genuine cat spotter.Treasure the experience.I know people who have been ,accidentedly ,within a couple of yards of these cats,not one of them does any more than slowly remove itself from human company.Oh.one spat at a cowman ,it was sunning itself just the other side of a water trough he was checking..so by mutual agreement he backed off..and the cat got up and left.


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## sallywhoa (26 October 2010)

Panther Hunter said:



			FAO Sallywhoa

In your post you describe having indeginous big cats as being infested and then a plague. You go on to say that you have no trouble in shooting them and then being quiet about this fact.

Remember the moutain lions/cougars/pumas where there before you where. In actual fact it is humans who have encroached on their habitat and hence thats why they are now more widely seen. 

But hey, they are a nusiance to us and lets shoot them, doesn't matter if another species is made extinct because there existence isn't convenient. Lynx were once indeginous in Britian as well and there has long been talk of re introducing them.   

Maybe people should learn to share our planet with all creatures. Having a big cat live in your neighbourhood isn't a bad thing? Certainly, not a crreature that was there long before you were.

Sorry for the rant, but it is this attitude which makes my blood boil. 

PS I hope the horse has made a full recovery.
		
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The children weren't allowed out to walk home from the bus stop.  Because of the large numbers of cats.   What are your children worth?   Nowhere did I say we should exterminate or seek them out for slaughter.  Read my post again.   My point is that if you see a calf or one of your horses being attacked, you should have the right to defend your property.    I guess I am fighting a losing battle trying to discuss this with people who have given up all rights to defend themselves.  They are nature, but so are we.   So are our animals we bring with us.   

Encroachment is a common theme in nature as well as an inevitable one.   We aren't the only ones who do it.   The numbers of large cats in NA is thriving, in spite of "human" encroachment.   There are even grizzly bears coming back into my part of the country, as well as moose.   Wolverines have never been gone, they are just under the radar and they are BAD characters.   Not to mention a massive elk/wapiti take-over that is driving the poor mule deer to havoc.   Over the last 10,000 years, we've even got evidence of encroachment of TREES, Utah juniper, which originated in New Mexico.   The most prominent portion of our eco-system in the west, the Sagebrush - came over to North America in the fur of animals in the last ice age.   Now it owns the place, and has split into 20 some odd sub-species.   Plants, animals... heck, soils and watersheds encroach all the time. 

So we will have to agree to disagree.   Sorry my "attitude" makes you upset, but there are those of us who actually live with these animals day to day, and those who make all their scientific/ethical/moral conclusions from nature programs.


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## sallywhoa (26 October 2010)

kittykatcat said:



			Hi all, OP here 

Ooo i didnt realise this was going to turn in to a debate about hunting them down! For what it's worth, even though i have seen the damage they can do first hand, I wouldnt want to see them hunted down at all. Considering the 'mob culture' we have here, it would be horrendous, probably end up in teenagers murdering normal moggies because they thought it was a larger than average cat. No no no, definately not.

The horse is fully recovered now - fine out in the field, back to his normal scatty self! Had no more scratches appear on any of the horses so fingers crossed its moved on. 

It's very interesting to hear how many people have had experiences with big cats!
		
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I'm glad to hear the horse is doing well!  He's gotta be traumatized, poor boy.   I apologize if anyone is upset for my take on the discussion.   What happened to your horse is pretty common around here, and guess I upset folks that we have a different attitude about it in the rural areas.  I really don't mean to do that...   

Anyways, here's good vibes for your horse's long happy life.  He's going to have some wicked cool scars to try to impress the other horses with!   :


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## ridersince2002 (26 October 2010)

IM COMPLETELY FREAKED OUT NOW!!!
Read the thread and googles 'big cats in surrey' (i live in surrey) and apparently theres a puma in surrey !!  And when i was out walking up to see the horses out at grazing (we put 2 out for the summer, then a different 2 out for the winter, and rotate it every year) i thought i saw a huge black cat in the shaddows in the woods, and my dog, who is normally as quiet as anything, went mad, barking and jumping and i had to pick her up to get through the wooded part of the track. I thought i was seeing things and it was just a coincidence that my dog went crazy, as i didnt know anything about big cats in our area, but now i think i might have seen the puma  I COULD'VE BEEN EATED  hehee but id rather i got eaten than the horses.


Just looked at the webpage again, apparently the big cats arent much of a danger to humans. PHEEEEWW


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