# Very strong Welsh D, any bit suggestions ? / ?



## Silversox123 (28 December 2008)

Hi everyone
I have been out hunting on my mare  a few times this season &amp; am finding her stronger on each outing. She began in a snaffle - before she really knew what was going on, but started to get strong so we moved onto a gag with 2 rings, we then moved onto a gag with 3 rings, plus the flash &amp; m'gale. She is still strong. She's not trying to take off with me but is just very keen &amp; wants to be at the front no matter what (No-1 told her she isn't actually the field masters horse! lol). The gag keeps her back but she leans on it really badly &amp; I was in aching like hell after 6 hours out the weekend before last. She's 7 now &amp; should be carrying herself without leaning on me - the little madam! It is only when we are hunting she is like this though. In the school, hacking, showing, dressage she is exceptionally well behaved and we do endurance in a snaffle, she just loves hunting! I don't know if I'm just being a bit picky, she's so good all other times.... it would be nice though not to ache like hell the next day after hunting so if anyone has any bit suggestions I would really like to hear them.????? P.s, just 2 make life a lil more difficult she has quite a 'cold' mouth &amp; won't accept anything that isn't copper, she also h8s the double bridle &amp; although we use a pelham for showing, I don't really want 2 use it for hunting, 2 much curfuffle with the 2 reins, although i have split reins so that might b an idea???!!!!!!
Thanks everyone  :grin:


----------



## icemaiden113 (28 December 2008)

have you tried a waterford gag? Because of the seperate linkage they can't lean on them! Used one for my very strong welsh! Put that with a flash noseband and it worked a treat!


----------



## star (28 December 2008)

maybe try a waterford so she cant lean?

i tried my welsh D in a kimblewick then a cheltenham gag but he argued as he didn't like the feel of them.  took him in the double on Boxing Day and just knotted the curb rein on his neck so it was there if i needed it and rode him off the bradoon all day.


----------



## L&M (28 December 2008)

second vote for the waterford gag - I use this for my sec D and it is the only thing I have control in!


----------



## skewby (28 December 2008)

I have a horse who is incredibly strong and leans like crazy.  The waterford gag (with one rein on the 3rd ring (eventually, after trying the other two) with a tight flash noseband) had no effect whatsoever.  He still leaned and tanked.  But then, I have never met anyone else with the stopping and leaning problems I face, and have met lots of people who say the waterford solved all their problems, so definitely worth a try!


----------



## Silversox123 (28 December 2008)

Has anyone seen the Waterfords with copper mouth pieces? I've just looked on ebay quickly &amp; there's none on there. Eb is a funny old bugger, she hates stainless steel bits. I've been thinking about the Cheltenham gag as they are supposed to reduce leaning, have never used them in all my horsey years though so don't know if the are any good, I'm also slightly confused about how you fit them with the cheek pieces?


----------



## palomino698 (28 December 2008)

A cheltenham gag will have leather (or rope) running through the holes in the bit rings, the buckle at the top goes straight onto the headpiece, instead of your usual cheekpieces, and the reins attach to the rings at the bottom of the leather runners.  It was the only bit that controlled our old 13.2 who would plunge his head to the floor and take off!


----------



## SpruceRI (28 December 2008)

Does she throw her head up and therefore evade the bit this way or does she put her head down and tug?  As depending on which will depend on what sort of bit you need.

I'm guessing she's a downward puller as you say she leans?

So something like a Cheltenham gag to raise her head would help, with maybe the Waterford mouthpiece?

How about this one from Dragonfly Saddlery?

Neue Schule Waterford Nelson Gag - 8029ng 
"
The action of the English/Running gag is one of a lifting action. It is generally recommended to use 2 reins with these gags as the risk of the horse ending up overbending is quite common.
The full cheeks on this gag reinforces the turning aids, which makes this a popular showjumping bit, as it encourages a quicker response when jumping off in the ring.
The Waterford mouthpiece is usually worn ¼" - ½" (6 -12 mm) longer than your traditional mouthpiece in order to curl around the lips and maximize the effect. 
It therefore usually suits any type of mouth conformation and is excellent for horses that lean or pull down as it gives specific pressure across the mouth where the balls are thereby creating a head raising action and also helps tremendously with control. It also prohibits the horse from "grabbing" the bit between the teeth as the Waterford is extremely difficult to gain any purchase on. It generally promotes mouthing and salivation".


----------



## Silversox123 (29 December 2008)

No she doesn't raise her head first or try &amp; yank, she just leans when i hold her back, she wants to race &amp; I won't always let her so she then becomes very heavy on my hands. She doesn't get bad tempered if I hold her back &amp; if I told her she had to walk, she would, it's just the leaning, she's a full Sec D so is not a light girl to be carrying all day! Thanks for the advice, especially how to fit the Cheltenham, that makes sense now! I think I will have to get one of these as they do sound effective without being harsh which what I want really. She has a beautiful mouth all other times &amp; I don't want to ruin that by yanking her around the place or from using a harsh bit.


----------



## Grey_Eventer (29 December 2008)

i use a polo gag. my horse was a complete poo before i used this, always wanting to be infront, so i put this in and i made him trot across the feilds, i looked really silly but that taught him that hunting was not all about being at the front and going as fast as possible, all the time. now he is brilliant, i still use the polo gag as he is strong but i can stop when i want etc.
so much nicer than before!


----------



## prudunce (30 December 2008)

Try a cheltenham gag,i had NO brakes on my new nelly in a waterford&amp;tight noseband,yet with this gag hes a dream out cantering,does not pull 1 wincey bit,its fab. As it acts on the poll,u dont do damage to the mouth(mines a rubber straight bar).I bought mine on ebay for £10 complete and just keep it for fast work.Good luck!  They may try to pull you at 1st,till they realise its uncomfy 4 them if they do pull,prob took all of 5 secs 4 my boy to settle in it for the 1st time!!fab bit of kit!


----------



## montydonkey (23 January 2009)

What about trying a hackamore she will either love it or hate it (so try it out first) it will save her mouth if she does only get strong out hunting?? I have a bit strong welsh lad and hunt him in a 3 ring gag althouh he hacks etc in a snaffle, however when he decides he's off and uses his neck my arms get a mighty work out, I just hope for a few good gallops to start with and hunt up front with him. He thinks he's a TB racing star, bless him


----------



## horseywelsh (23 January 2009)

When i first started jumping my SecD he was v,v strong, so my trainer advised a pelham with D rings - so no trouble with too many reins. Worked and now he has gone back into his snaffle, although i think hunting or xc i would put it back in.


----------

