# Advice on choosing the right stallion-



## kirstinw55 (12 December 2010)

hi all- ill just start by apologising for the bareness of this message as i joined about an hour ago and am fairly lost as to how to work it, but in short i wanted to join for peoples advice and opinions on choosing a stallion....

I have made the decision to cover my special mare, as much as i love her as my riding horse i have always dreamed of owning a coloured sportshorse. As this is going to be a one off breeding from her i feel it incredibly important i am 100 % confident with the stallion i go with. 

Ella is 15.3 dutch warmblood x clysedale, middleweight. she has good conformation but when asessed was told her legs were a little bit too short so am looking to affluent that attribute of her. She is a maiden mare so a bit wary on how high to go stallion wise for her first foal.

As i said i would love to breed a coloured sportshorse, and as this would be a one off breeding i would ideally like dad to be homozygous however if he was exceptional i would consider non homozygous, also would like foal to hit at list 16.1 so would like stallion to influence height. Obviously breeding needs to be taken into consideration so any opinions on that would be greatly recieved, (can submit ellas breeding on request).

Would greatly appreciate peoples thoughts and views on stallions who they recommend or maybe have/know stock off, thankyou very much for reading! any questions please ask! p.s hope ive done this right!!


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## volatis (12 December 2010)

Few more questions for you, are you looking to aim the foal at any particular discipline, and any other areas of your mare you'd like to improve on, and what would be the things about your mare you'd most like to retain. Also what is her Dutch parentage as a lot of the coloured sporthorses have Dutch bloodlines too

There are some very nice homozygous stallions available, but some of my favourite ones I would not consider would add length of leg to the offspring.


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## Meowy Catkin (12 December 2010)

Could you please post some conformation shots of your mare as it will be really helpful to 'see' her.

Thanks.


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## kirstinw55 (12 December 2010)

hi sorry im desperately trying to put some pictures on but failing! it says add the picture url which im doing and just leaves a code instead of a picture!x


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## kirstinw55 (12 December 2010)

in response to volatis, i would like the foal to eventually event, as thats my main forte, i would like to keep the tempermant and trainable attributes of my mare, i would like to improve the movement as she is quite a short strider with more rolling strides if that makes sense, she is by gibside mr chips who is olympic ahorn, nimmerdor lines, agree with your length of leg comment, im losing hope in that aspect!


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## Maesfen (12 December 2010)

kirstinw55 said:



			hi sorry im desperately trying to put some pictures on but failing! it says add the picture url which im doing and just leaves a code instead of a picture!x
		
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If you're using Photobucket then use the Image code (bottom line under the pic that comes up.  Click on the IMG line, it will say in the box 'copied' then place your cursor on here where you want it and press Ctrl + v and it should come up (you'll see a line of text starting and finishing with IMG but if you preview your post, it should show your pic.)


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## kirstinw55 (12 December 2010)

im trying to take the pictures from my album as thats what it said to do, so im copying the url from the box below it and going on edit post, then im copying that url into the box that appears when you clickk on the image icon, however it just comes up as a cross :/ fed up now! x


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## Touchwood (12 December 2010)

This may not be the answer you want, but in all honesty, if you want to breed an eventer you HAVE to add some blood into your mare.  I would not be considering anything other than a full TB.  Which takes the colour out of the equation - however nice it would be to have some colour, it really should be bottom of your list after improving on the mare, and producing an animal which will have a long and useful working life.

Weston Justice is a graded TB stallion, an advanced eventer himself, and is by Criminal Law.  I have a Criminal Law mare myself and in my experience, you do tend to get some legginess from these genes.


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## Stelzar (12 December 2010)

Heya, try this one.... His name is Wolfgang Tattoo - By Tullibards Shakespeare &#8211; International Eventer


He throws coloured sports horses, is 16.1 1/2 so would reach your required height. I hope this helps ;-) 

http://www.haydenequestrian.com/?page_id=85


Try this one as well - http://www.shovernstud.co.uk/


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## kirstinw55 (12 December 2010)

sorry for the faff, have managed to add some pics of her, theyre not the best for giving you an idea of her conformation tho!


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## kirstinw55 (12 December 2010)

Thanks for the links stelzar, i have looked at phanten and airborn before and like them both, prefer phanten but airborn is the homozygous so not sure, does anyone have stock off either boys? When i said i would like to breed a horse for eventing, i mean that in the sense as i enjoy eventing the best of all the disciplines ,however i compete in showjumping, dressage etc so just ideally want to breed something capable of excelling in all three different phases


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## volatis (12 December 2010)

I would agree with Touchwood that if you want to breed a serious eventer, then you will need to use a blood type horse. If you want something to have fun with and just stick to unaffialited and the lower levels of eventings then as long as you choose a modern type of stallion with a bold jump, it wont matter if the resulting foal lacks a little blood and quality needed for higher levels.

There is a coloured Trakehner stallion in Germany who evented (went to the Bundeschampionate) and has thrown some nice foals (includuing premium graded daughters) and has offspring starting to event as well/ He does need a mare with a correct foreleg as he is a little straight in front but super temperament and very good canter in particular. Only heterozygous though, Camaro -http://www.inselgestuet-christiansen.de/camaro.html

He also has a homozygous son standing in Germany - Chess M, but I have never seen him or his offspring but I think some UK breeders have used him


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## kirstinw55 (12 December 2010)

Thankyou will check the link out, have looked at chess m before however he is extremely minimally marked which put me off a bit as would like foal to be quite coloured, thankyou for feedback!x


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## Meowy Catkin (12 December 2010)

http://www.grafhamstud.co.uk/freespirit.php

However, I do agree that colour should be at the bottom of the list or the 'icing on the cake' (depending on how you look at it  ) when breeding foals.


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## kirstinw55 (12 December 2010)

ive always wanted a coloured though so want to breed a coloured if possible, whatever my mare throws will be special to me so if i can find a nice coloured stallion i'm happy!x


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## noodle_ (12 December 2010)

solaris sport horses ...??

umenno?...

http://www.umenno.com/terms_and_conditions.shtml


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## Stelzar (12 December 2010)

Do you definately want a coloured or would you like a spotted (coloured) the breeder I bought off is very knowledgeable and specializes in breeding unusual coloured sports horses, let me know if you would like to get in touch with her, this is one of the foals she has produced, which is both very pretty and has really good conformation and bone. 







This is a Vangelis foal below, but the colouring and markings are loverly


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## kirstinw55 (12 December 2010)

ive looked at ummeno before, but dont know a great deal about him- does anyone have any ummeno opinions? that foals gorgeous but it has to be coloured im afraid!xx


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## noodle_ (12 December 2010)

kirstinw55 said:



			ive looked at ummeno before, but dont know a great deal about him- does anyone have any ummeno opinions? that foals gorgeous but it has to be coloured im afraid!xx
		
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i dont... but  i love him   mines going in foal (i think!!!) in 2012.... hopefully to him


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## magic104 (13 December 2010)

Well there is http://www.angrovestud.com/ who posts on here & her stallion is homozygoused.  You may or may not get the markings from I was Framed http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=i+was+framed&x=22&y=6 he is unproven so you may get the markings but not the performance.
I think this one will be too heavy for your mare (to produce an eventer) Warlord http://www.oso-stud.co.uk/
http://www.sporting-horse.co.uk/SempersSpirit.htm again not enough blood but would give colour.


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## sywell (13 December 2010)

Only use stallions that have been approved by a breed society. A good horse has no colour (Manfred Lopp).


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## eventrider23 (13 December 2010)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Sempers Spirit as yet.  He is WB but very blood in that he is closely related to Sandro...only 2 generations back.  I myself had a foal by him this year out of a Welsh D mare and the resulting foal is better than I could have ever thought to ask for!  She is set to make a decent 16.2 (dam only 15.2) and her movement, boldness and quality are superb.  She was enetered in this year's futurity but I had to withdraw as I broke my back but she will be going next year and I also intend on using the stallion again.

This is my filly.
http://equinoxsporthorses.yolasite.com/sempers-sapphire.php

As regards Airborn and Phanten....nice stallions but for your mare I would definitely say way too heavy - especially if you are trying to breed an eventer.  My filly's dam went to Phanten a few years ago and the filly is HUGE and quite heavily boned, whereas all her foals otherwise....by Alderfarn VII and Sempers Spirit have been lovely and refined.


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## angrovestud (13 December 2010)

magic104 said:



			Well there is http://www.angrovestud.com/ who posts on here & her stallion is homozygoused.  You may or may not get the markings from I was Framed http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=i+was+framed&x=22&y=6 he is unproven so you may get the markings but not the performance.
I think this one will be too heavy for your mare (to produce an eventer) Warlord http://www.oso-stud.co.uk/
http://www.sporting-horse.co.uk/SempersSpirit.htm again not enough blood but would give colour.
		
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Thank you Magic very kind of you to think of us!
We specialise in Coloured TB breeding not many of us about I was framed has gone to france, our stallion Ricco is a 3/4 TB 1/4 ID type he stands just abouve 16.2hh and has long legs and movement he was choosen by Eventing World wide to be on there web site as his bloodlines and connected to some Advanced Event horses.
Ricco has had 2 offspring at Bramham placed as yearlings and two year olds out of classes 40 +
We do in deed have a 7/8ths TB but he is only 15.2hh Angrove Spotted Dick 






he is very rare as he is the only Grandson of Sarahs Pride Showjumper and avan high jump winner 







then we have Ricco his sire 











Ricco progeny
his racehorse son out of a sprinter 15.2 and tiny.











This boy is out of a coloured PBA.
we are in North Yorks if you get chance to come and have a look please PM me, Heather


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## magic104 (13 December 2010)

eventrider23 said:



			I'm surprised no one has mentioned Sempers Spirit as yet.  He is WB but very blood in that he is closely related to Sandro...only 2 generations back.  .
		
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He was already quoted  http://www.sporting-horse.co.uk/SempersSpirit.htm again not enough blood but would give colour.  Glad Im not the only one who does not always bother reading all the posts.


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## buffybunty (13 December 2010)

I would have no hesitation in using one of Jill Webb's stallions.  I have two mares by Phanten, a filly by Charlton Checkmate and I have also bred a filly by the late Appledore Marengo. So I know what her stallions will produce.   I will be using Airborn next Spring to hopefully breed a versatile sports horse.  Shovern Stud offer a really professional service.  I would unhesitatingly recommend them.  Shovern Stud is a great set up and the stallions are well looked after, happy and relaxed.  The horses I have bred, especially the Phanten offspring are all really nice sports horses.  They are all young still but have exciting futures ahead of them.  None of them are heavy but elegant, good moving with good confirmation and wonderful trainable temperaments.

http://www.shovernstud.co.uk

Good luck!


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## eventrider23 (13 December 2010)

Magic 104 - I saw that after I posted....ooops.  He actually does have quite a bit of blood close up though as his sire Semper is a direct son of the TBx Sandro, son of Sacaramento Song, making him more blood than the likes of Sandro Hit, etc and my filly, considering her dam is Welsh certainly has inherited the blood.


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## Willow1306 (13 December 2010)

As somebody else has mentioned, there is Chess M, who looks to be very classy. If you go on the gestuet-falkenhorst website I think there is a pic of at least one foal by him.

As far as I'm aware there's no relationship between the amount markings are expressed on the dam/sire to how it will be expressed on the foal e.g. minimally/maximally. Some other genes do seem to factor in, e.g. if one carries splash.

Realistically, to get any colour, your only security is to use something homozygous, then there's no telling how the foals markings will turn out!


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## kirstinw55 (13 December 2010)

oh gosh thankyou all for your responses! im still as undecisive as ever and as soon as i feel set on one i find reasons not to use him! also your filly is gorgeous! does anybody have any opinions on glenhill gold as quite like the look of him also but dont know a lot about him?x


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## kirstinw55 (13 December 2010)

uploading a couple more pics of el so people can get more of an idea of her!


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## kirstinw55 (13 December 2010)




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## volatis (13 December 2010)

I didnt mention Sempers Spirit or Ringo as although both homozygous and both could produce a nice eventing/all rounder, I dont think they will reliably improve length of leg which was one of the key aspects the OP asked for. 

Ringo works very well on blood mares, I have used him a number of times and been very pleased with the results, but a big variety in size and length of leg. Sempers Spirit I have used once and had a lovely filly, but again I am not certain he would add the leginess needed in this case. Both stallions carry enough blood to breed an all rounder who could event depending on the mare,  and SS himself is fairly refined and neat.

I think finding a homozygous sire who will produce an eventer and add length of leg is a tough order


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## kirstinw55 (13 December 2010)




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## kirstinw55 (13 December 2010)




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## kirstinw55 (13 December 2010)

Competing as 4 year old- hopefully have uploaded enough pics of her for people to get idea of her!


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## kirstinw55 (13 December 2010)

my friend has a nice horse by goshka ringo- does anyone know his height and if he is homozygous? quite like the look of sempers spirit- also does anyone know if semper is still used for stud or is he deceased?x


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## volatis (17 December 2010)

Ringo is about 16.0hh but can throw a variety of heights. the ones I have bred ranged from 15.2hh to 18.0hh (and I am not exagerating - mare was 16.2hh)
He is homoyzgous


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## competitiondiva (17 December 2010)

Personally I think to get length of leg and coloured into the same sentence you might be pushing things!!!!  lol!

But of those mentioned previously I would rate Unemmo, I haven't experienced him personally but know of 2 of his offspring who also stand at stud, have seen footage of his foal and his grand-foals by buenno!  he is not homozygous himself, but will offer you a very attractive possibility, he is currently showjumping abroad and doing very well.  His sons one of which stands at solaris too is called buenno and is a lovely stamp of a horse, throwing nice stock and IS homozygous for tobiano, so there you would be guaranteed colour, here's his page: http://www.umenno.com/homozygous_tobiano_warmblood_stallion.shtml
I am seriouly tempted by this boy myself, (if I do breed again!)
Unemo's other son is owned by another forum user, the horse is called Bavranno and is a very nice looking young stallion: http://www.horsedeals.co.uk/stallions-at-stud/dressage/Bavranno__7-1-10-989283

The other place I woud also rate is shovern stud, I agree that their coloureds aren't going to add blood to your mix and maybe a bit heavy, I'm interested in their new young boy Eros myself, who looks lush and homozygous for black!

I do like the look of sempers spirirt and if available he may offer you possibly the most leg.

Another consideration, although you did say about minimally marked putting you off is Bazaars Chief, but not homozygous: 
http://www.bazaarsstud.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=27


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## competitiondiva (17 December 2010)

P.S. I almost forgot Co-Pilot, a very nice looking coloured, homozygous for black but not the coloured gene, he offers more of a dressage stallion, but also has some good jumping stock in his pedigree!

http://www.freckletonstud.co.uk/page32a.html


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## kirstinw55 (18 December 2010)

thankyou all for your responses- at the minute im either thinking sempers spirit- as he is homozygous and quite fine so would hopefully compliment el nicely. I also like phanten from shovern stud although not homozygous theres something about him i like. still undecided as ever but appreciate everybodys suggestions!xx


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## kirstinw55 (18 December 2010)

on another note- has anyone experience with the countryfarm stud stallions- i have always liked country lone ranger- and know they have a couple of other nice boys there xx


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## carousel8703 (7 January 2011)

I used Sempers Spirit this year he's a really nice horse with a lovely temprement and i'm looking forward to the arrival of our first foal. He is owned by the united coloured stud and stands at millfield stud which is a great yard. I had no worries leaving my mare with them I'm a first time breeder so its nice having the support of knowledgeable breeders who didn't mind me asking a million questions.


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## cruiseline (7 January 2011)

kirstinw55 said:



			I also like phanten from shovern stud although not homozygous theres something about him i like. still undecided as ever but appreciate everybodys suggestions!xx
		
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Phanten is a lovely horse, I have used him on one of my mares and got a cracking coloured colt who is now doing really well WH, but if you are looking to put refinement into your mare, I personally don't think he would be the right stallion to use.

You need something with more TB in it.


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## cruiseline (7 January 2011)

Just had a thought what about Nederland Esquire, he will probably refine your mare, He carries some TB and is a modern type with 8 1/2" bone. He can really jump too.

http://www.brendonpyecombe.co.uk/brendonstud/nederlandesquire.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHeCBOmHsI4&feature=related


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## tristar (7 January 2011)

have you seen Revolution, ( thoroughbred) on stallions on line? not coloured but i really liked the look of him


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## ColourFan (7 January 2011)

Have you chanced to look at the two coloured thoroughbred stallions standing at Gestuet Falkenhorst (where Chess M is also standing)?

'Ellusive Look' is an actual 16.1 H Black Frame Overo stallion,  ECHA approved: http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com/gflook.html

'Letter of Marque' is an actual 16.1 H Dark Brown Frame Overo stallion, VZAF approved (Gold Ribbon Winner at the approval; VZAF approval entitles Warmblood A-registry in Germany),  video of his approval: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me865lRb6Pg
German language page but with photo's: http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com/marque.html

Then off course if you would consider looking at a non-coloured, but dillute stallion, there's always 'The Alchemist' (also Falkenhorst).  He is lifelong FULLY warmblood approved, is actually a whopping 17.1 H and is himself competing in eventing. 
http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com/gfalchemist.html


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## eventrider23 (7 January 2011)

I have to agree with CL that Phanten would not be one to add refinement.  My mare has now had a Phanten AND a Sempers Spirit foal and the SS foal is refined, delicate and showy whereas the Phanten one is very chunky and much more hunter like.


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## angrovestud (7 January 2011)

The above foal is by Ricco out of a crossbred mare with some Irish and Tb in her her foal is coloured and has a good length of leg.
Ricco is 3/4 TB so you would get your blood length of leg and lastly colour we we are quiet near you in North Yorkshire.
Riccos racehorse son in my sig is now 16.1hh at 3


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## Navalgem (7 January 2011)

May not be enough blood but nice and light and refined: http://www.longacresstud.co.uk/gpage4.html


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## parkside (8 January 2011)

How about Keady Star - he has been purchased by Langaller Farm and is by Ringo. He is also double homozygous. I bought a fab yearling by him from Ireland and another friend in Cornwall has a cracking 2 yr old. I have never seen him in the flesh - just love the progeny.


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## kirstinw55 (8 January 2011)

hi again! sorry for being awol over the xmas period! thankyou once again for all your suggestions! im going to see one of jjayscolouredcollection stallions, Czar next sunday and fairly sure im going to use him! He is a polish warmblood, has a stunning head, and is the right build for my girl! will keep you all updated! hope everyone had a good christmas and new year!xx


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## rossiroo (8 January 2011)

Hi I have a simmular mare to you by the sound of it. Mine is 3/4 tb and 1/4 clydesdale mid/weight slightly short in the neck. Has a t/b temprement but is very strong. I wanted a more lightweight version of her with laid-back temprement. I used Sebastian III the result is beautifull, she is now 3 and has a brilliant temprement already more sensible than mum, she has wonderfull paces and is coming along nicely. If I was breeding for colour I would go to Country Farm Stud friends highly recomend them.good luck


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## angrovestud (9 January 2011)

A friend of mine has one or sale from country farm very nice filly just not big enough.


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