# First horse - Clydesdale/ Shire horse yearling or older pony



## Tillytiger (8 August 2015)

Hello all,

I'm fairly new to the world  of horse, I did ride a bit when I was younger but stopped for years. I have been having weekly lessons for around 6 weeks now and I have picked up all of the gaits again  really easily. My Mum has 4 horses on of them is a 16 year old TB x WB school master 17.2 H who has been amazing for building my confidence. I have not yet gone out on my own but hopefully in a few more weeks I will be there. 

I want to get my own horse and have been thinking of getting a young yearling, preferably a gelding as I've never had the same bond with a mare. This will also give me 2-3 years to improve my riding and help bond with my horse. I adore Clydesdale's and Shire horses but know this will be more costly. Can anyone with experience with these breads advise how much extra for feed and keep? My local riding school provide livery and allow any size horses so this would not be a problem. Although I love my mums Connemara pony, I love bigger horses and think it completely changes the ride

Can anyone with experience advise what is best for a first time horse owner, an older more advance pony or a young horse who I can bring up and bond with? I have read bits online but nothing speaks better than real experience.

Thank you.


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## Barnacle (8 August 2015)

You definitely shouldn't get a youngster. Even though it sounds like your mum has some more experience, you definitely don't have enough yourself and you need much more than riding ability to raise a young horse. Bigger ones are even harder to handle and can very easily get pushy and ultimately dangerous. Worst case scenario, you could end up having to seriously consider putting the horse to sleep. I've seen people go through this because they were not experienced enough when they took on a youngster and it's not worth it. 

People talk a lot about "bonding" but forget that more important than that are clear boundaries, respect and trust. If your riding ability is still coming along, I would suggest getting an older schoolmaster type. You could always get a nice draft type schoolmaster - just don't get a baby. 

In the meantime, you can start trying out some greener horses - maybe see if you can share some more challenging types to get to grips with behavioural issues. If you're around London, I can hook you up with some haha . You need to be able to teach a youngster more than just how to be ridden - they need to learn EVERYTHING. How to lead, how to pick up their feet for the farrier, not to be pushy, to lunge, to longrein etc etc. It's not a small task and it's not just grooming and 'bonding' all the time. Groundwork and basic handling are crucial and even quite experienced people do not know how to deal with the behavioural issues that commonly pop up in even an adult horse, let alone a young one.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (9 August 2015)

Agree with above:  bonding is for people, in this respect horses are more like cats rather than dogs, they bond with whom they choose. They do not need humans as friends, they need them to provide a nice big field with lots of friends of the horse variety.
As for stabling a large horse, they need a larger stable, and more food than a pony, they are more prone to injury and are often more accident prone. I understand you may like to ride a big horse, but to be frank some of the larger ponies ride more like a horse, what I am saying is that big is not always beautiful, but nearly always more expensive and often more needy [here I exclude ponies prone to laminitis or other condition]. There is little point is spending money on buying a horse when you really need to build up your experience on numerous horses, loan if you like, but don't buy, the best horse for you this year may not suit you next year.
At the moment you have minimal responsibility for any horse, once you own one the costs can be staggering and the worry never ending, you may be the lucky one who sails through horse ownership with no drama, but it will be luck!


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## Sugar_and_Spice (14 August 2015)

You don't currently have enough experience for a youngster.  Go for an older more established horse.  You will have to learn to keep the behaviour and schooling up to scratch even with an older horse.  Once you own it and nobody else is riding or handling it on a regualr basis you'll find bad habits creep in and problems occur if you start letting the horse get away with things.  At the moment you're riding horses trained under saddle and on the ground by other more experienced people, that's why it's all feeling so easy.  When you're responsible for this maintenance work yourself it can become a little harder.  Owning your first horse is a learning experience in itself.  The last thing you need to add into that mix is a yearling.  

If you want to own a youngster in the future to break in and bring on yourself, you need to get experience now of lots of different types of bad behaviour both on the ground and under saddle and learn how to correct it (not just theory, be capable of doing the remedial work yourself) because you don't know what problems are going to occur and you might inadvertantly cause some problems yourself with your first youngster.  Nobody is perfect and life is a learning curve so if you accidentally cause a problem it helps if you already know how to go about sorting it out.  You need experience of youngsters generally too, because teaching a horse something for the first time when they have no idea what you want is very different to retraining an older horse who knows what you want but also knows how to get out of doing it.  In addition, older but still green (only partly trained) horses are a good in-between to get to grips with before you buy your first yearling.  

Generally ponies are tougher and easier/cheaper to keep than horses.  Buy something that will fit in with your lifestyle not just something you like riding, because riding is only a small part of ownership.


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## Shay (14 August 2015)

I would echo the others about not getting a youngster.  This forum - and many others - are littered with the problems caused by poor early training.  It is too easy to ruin an otherwise potentially good horse and when you are talking about a large breed as well the risk that you would have to have them destroyed as a result of behaviour problems increases.

I wonder if the reason you prefer a larger horse over a smaller one or  a large pony is because at this stage of your riding you find the longer gait easier to sit?  The longer stride, especially in an older or experienced horse, is often smoother than the shorter stride of a pony.  Although a younger or less experienced horse with extravagant paces will probably still catapult you out of the saddle - it will many of us I think!

I entirely understand what you say about geldings vs mares.  No good horse is a bad colour - or gender.  But I know for myself I get along better with geldings.  And there are riders who get along better with mares.  Horses for courses as they say - but it has nothing to do with "bonding".

Sorry - writing you a bit of an essay here.  Final bit...  I had a much beloved Shire / TB cross standing at 18.1hh and fairly full boned.  (He had to be sold when I broke my back - not his fault).  He cost me an easy 3x to keep what each of my daughter's ponies / competition horses do.  And he was a solid lad, not prone to injury as many can be.  They eat more.  They damage more stuff when they stand on it (you included!).  Their rugs and tack cost massively more.  They are harder to transport because they weigh so much and tend  to need a box rater than a trailer. I loved him with all my heart - and I do like the look and ride of heavy horses.  However were I able to get my own now (rather than bank rolling my daughter's expanding string!)  I would look to a cob type small horse.  Less far to fall, easier to keep.  Smooth gaits (if they're not close coupled).  Lovely nature if you don't get them shut down emotionally.

As others have said - you need lots more experience with other horses before you embark on owning your own.  Especially as you have your Mum's to borrow!  But it is a wonderful journey and you'll have a great time.


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## applecart14 (14 August 2015)

Tillytiger said:



			Hello all,

I'm fairly new to the world  of horse, I did ride a bit when I was younger but stopped for years. I have been having weekly lessons for around 6 weeks now and I have picked up all of the gaits again  really easily. My Mum has 4 horses on of them is a 16 year old TB x WB school master 17.2 H who has been amazing for building my confidence. I have not yet gone out on my own but hopefully in a few more weeks I will be there. 

I want to get my own horse and have been thinking of getting a young yearling, preferably a gelding as I've never had the same bond with a mare. This will also give me 2-3 years to improve my riding and help bond with my horse. I adore Clydesdale's and Shire horses but know this will be more costly. Can anyone with experience with these breads advise how much extra for feed and keep? My local riding school provide livery and allow any size horses so this would not be a problem. Although I love my mums Connemara pony, I love bigger horses and think it completely changes the ride

Can anyone with experience advise what is best for a first time horse owner, an older more advance pony or a young horse who I can bring up and bond with? I have read bits online but nothing speaks better than real experience.

Thank you.
		
Click to expand...

Just so you know the prevelance of Wobblers Syndrome and also PSM is more common in this breed. I would be particuarly concerned about a yearling or young fast growing shire in particular male as again they are more predisposed than females.

Why don't you consider something around 6 or 7 that's still young, but done a bit, maybe a shire x TB or shire x WB instead?  Here's a link to some examples http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/list/3365/horses-and-ponies.html?keyword=shire x tb


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## AdorableAlice (14 August 2015)

applecart14 said:



			Just so you know the prevelance of Wobblers Syndrome and also PSM is more common in this breed. I would be particuarly concerned about a yearling or young fast growing shire in particular male as again they are more predisposed than females.

Why don't you consider something around 6 or 7 that's still young, but done a bit, maybe a shire x TB or shire x WB instead?  Here's a link to some examples http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/list/3365/horses-and-ponies.html?keyword=shire x tb

Click to expand...

The first advert is a shocker for conformation.  

Rapid growth in any breed can be managed with appropriate feeding, or not feeding in reality.

To answer the OP's questions, feeding heavy horses is expensive, they consume vast quantities of hay/haylage and it is forage that they thrive on.  A heavy will get through a small bale of hay in a morning.  Hard working heavies will eat a traditional type of feed, again based on forage so chop/sugarbeet etc, and plenty of it, they have a massive frame to fuel.


Foot care is key and many young farriers will never have dealt with the breed.  Shoes are flat iron and handmade, there will be no change from £150 plus to shoe a shire.  A heavy shod or not will trash fields for fun - and fences if they are not mannerly.  One wormer will not worm a heavy.  Horsebox ramps need to be heavy duty as does the lorry, unless cut off at the knees they do not fit in your mates 3.5t.  A standard 12x12 loose box is not sufficient and a cast shire is no fun.

Forget the saying 'Gentle Giant' they are not born gentle, Shires are often sharp, very sharp as I have found out.  They are made gentle with endless patience and experienced handling.

If you want to read the thread 'My Next Equine Project' you will see the story of the type of horse you are thinking of acquiring.  I paid £200 for him in June 2012, a rough guess at my costs todate for him would be 6k plus. (hope my husband does not read this thread), The thread is a humorous account of the difficulties the horse presented me with.

As a novice owner wanting a larger horse I would suggest you look at a older maxi cob type, which may well have a dose of heavy breeding in the melting pot of what cobs are.  I have a clyde x ID who is only 15.2, 11" of not so quality bone and built like a brick outhouse.
	
	
		
		
	


	





This type of horse would do your job (this one is not for sale), the mix of clyde and ID gives bone and depth, comfortable gaits, no hard feed needed and a steady sensible but forward going ride.  Something like this at 10/12 yrs old would not be cheap unless it was an unsound and ungenuine creature.

Good luck in whatever route you take.


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## Tern (15 August 2015)

Okay, so I am going to give an honest opinion like AA above had. Although far less educated than AA!

I own a 16.3hh Clydesdale x Thoroughbred .. The Thoroughbred seems to be lost however. To make much of a difference there needs to be a lot of thoroughbred and very little shire or clydesdale / general heavy horse. Mine is dressage trained although does jump (terrifying) and has hunted in previous homes. 

I have not yet been through a winter with my boy so I can not comment on the feeding directly however he will consume much more than my Welsh D who (shockingly) is a poor doer. However he is a very good doer and would survive on little feed however that would not be fair on him as he needs energy.

His feet are the size of your biggest pot at home. He thinks he's a labrador which doesn't help the fact that he sometimes steps on you. I am very very lucky he isn't shod and has feet as hard as rocks.  

I am very lucky he fits in my 3.5 ton lorry however his gross weight makes it overweight therefore we are downsizing to a trailer again at some point. I am also lucky he fits in a stable slightly bigger than 12x12.

This horse is the most wonderful horse ever. Very gentle on the ground. HOWEVER, ridden he can be very sharp and opinionated. If he is being a bit slow in canter for example and you give him a kick he will buck and it isn't a small one. This horse does spook on a sixpence, when he spooks he drops his shoulder. If he doesn't want to go on the bit he won't and no amount of rein wiggling will convince him otherwise. 

Snaffle mouthed at all times as I don't wish to put him in anything stronger however he pulls like a train out hacking and can be very cobby and heavy in the hand. The extension for medium trot he offers is fabulous and he is a complete and utter show off. 

This horse does not lose his fitness - a 3 hour hack later and he is still pulling like a train. He was ridden 6 times last year (we've had him for about 5 months) yet still managed to do dressage demonstrations with little effort. Not sure if this is a general heavy horse thing or just this horse. I'm sure AA can confirm.

Now, lets talk about tack.

- A full bridle with an extra full noseband and possibly an extra full browband.
- A 5 3/4" NS bit. This is a bit small so really he's 6" in bits.
- An 18" bates dressage saddle fitted with a Wide gullet which is Red - there is one gullet left XW - which is white. I can still feel this horses ribs without pressing more than an inch into him.
- He doesn't wear boots - too much hassle.
- Full numnahs do not fit him. I am yet to find a generous brand in dressage style that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

If you wish to see pictures look at a previous thread of mine - Will be titled new horse or something similar.


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## Tern (15 August 2015)

I've made him sound horrible lol, just realised.

I promise, he is a complete and utter gentleman however he is 15 and I can imagine a little booger as a baby. Along with Ted (AA's Shire) they'll be the next Valegros.


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