# Horse being awful when led



## AB81 (22 February 2016)

Hi everyone. Posted on here before with regards to new horse and after tests on back (muscle ache as ridden too hard by instructor &#128530, saddle, and ulcers (all fine), his grumpy ways are improving. Still a bit girthy but better as am ignoring his sour face and getting on with it. However.....I need your help and suggestions as when I lead him (and yes maybe it's been a little windy) he has started ok but then suddenly  races forward, bucks, and yesterday a mini rear. I held on and managed to turn him to face me. Got control and then carried on and he did it again. So again turned him to me. We carried on and he tried to grass graze so I berated him for that and got him to the stable. Knees shaking! &#128556; He also did this with me going into the school to ride in his bridle. Managed to steel myself and eventually get on after his stupid antics, and ride.
Have been doing lots of back up, walk forwards, stop. Moving his hind quarters when grooming. But I'm scared with the leading now. &#128533; We have to walk through a very narrow part to the field and not much room to escape his bucks (this is where he acted up). I don't know how to sort this, how or when to discipline, which training Tools if any,  so please send me your wise words. Thank you.


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## highlandponygirl (22 February 2016)

It sounds like he is taking the piss and has no respect for your space or authority. I would seriously consider getting someone in to help you address his behaviour especially if he is starting to scare you.


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## pennandh (22 February 2016)

In terms of safety, I'd suggest leading him on a lunge-line or a long-rein (either from a headcollar or, for extra control, from a bridle in the same set-up you'd use to lunge from the bit) whilst carrying a schooling whip so as to make it easier to get him safely out of your immediate personal space if he starts pratting on (you can also ask him to move specific feet with a schooling whip with a bit of practice).

Always put a riding hat on to lead him, and a body protector's not a bad idea if he's actually kicking out in your direction. 

If you don't feel confident tackling the situation alone, it's much better to get a professional in to help sooner rather than later (and it's absolutely no skin off your nose if you feel you need to), because this is potentially dangerous behaviour which needs to be sorted out before it has a chance to escalate.

One other suggestion which may help (especially if it's personal space in general and not just humans' space that he disrespects) would be to turn him out (assuming he's gelded and preferably not shod behind) with an assertive mare - she won't stand for him playing silly b***ers, and most youngsters quickly realise they're not top of the heap and stop fooling after they've had a short, sharp lesson or two in manners from another horse.


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## Orca (22 February 2016)

Hi OP, I remember your last post and I'm so glad you got to the bottom of that problem .

I agree that this sounds like pi$$ taking and also with the use of lunge line to lead, along with hat, gloves and protector. 

I would suggest doing more groundwork - he's dangerously intruding on your personal space and if he strikes, you are at real risk. Another technique which can sometimes help is to have a second handler on a second line until the problem is sorted. 

For my own mare, I've just bought a Dually halter (as recommended to me by other posters here, following a bolting incident caused by electric fencing)...







...which just gives an extra element of control if necessary (once the horse understands the pressure- release concept through groundwork), while saving the mouth. Sometimes a jab in the mouth can cause a rear, so I'd try taking the bit out of the equation (in favour of a control halter) while he's bolting, bucking and pratting about, just to check this hasn't occurred/ ensure it doesn't occur.

What do you do when he behaves like this? After my mare bolted that time (which was understandable), she tried it once more and was told off in no uncertain terms (I have a helluva growl, which stopped her in her tracks  ) - she hasn't tried it ever since.

I'm sure you'll surmount this issue, just as you did with the last one and as others have said, don't be reluctant to get hands on help with him


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## BethH (22 February 2016)

I second the dually, I've used mine daily for 10years, they are expensive but they last forever, the second he goes into a normal headcollar he takes other liveries for a stroll whilst they ski behind!  

Also get the Kelly Marks "Perfect Manners" book, invaluable for common sense reminders of what the horse is thinking and how you should react.  Also I agree with the other posters, get a good groundwork trainer to give you a few lessons, they can also show you how to use the Dually effectively, it is worn like a lunge cavesson not loose like a normal headcollar, it will save you a lot of stress further down the line and you can nip the cheeky behaviour in the bud.  Feet in the air near your body whilst in hand is completely unacceptable and you are absolutely right to post your concerns about this - that is good horsemanship, ignoring it isn't!  You should have an arms length bubble around you that he is only invited into when you ask.

Look at the The Intelligent Horsemanship website, their trained Associates are very useful people to know & can help.  Post again if you are worried, there is a lot of good common sense and experience on this forum.  Good luck & keep yourself safe.


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## sunshine100* (22 February 2016)

hi i had the same issue-dually for sure-check out 2nd hand on ebay and preloved


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## npage123 (22 February 2016)

I echo what others have said re more groundwork and him learning more respect.

I would also try and get him out of the habit of pulling you along/all over the place by allowing more time at bringing in time.  Don't just walk him straight from the field to the stable - walk randomly into as many directions as you can so he doesn't associate bringing in time with going straight to the stable where there's probably food/hay waiting or where most of the other horses in the herd are waiting for him.

Good luck.  Even little Shetlands can pull you all over the place if not properly trained so I hope you manage to improve the situation.


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## AB81 (23 February 2016)

Thank you so much for all your positive suggestions and wise words. I agree definitely more time bringing in and working on the manners in the process. He always walks out with his head right up, so not sure how to get it down?....
Did lots with him yesterday. Getting him to go back and move his hindquarters. Lots of tail swishing but by the end of it I just stepped towards him and he moved back three steps. I totally agree having someone experienced help me with bringing in so my instructor and I will do this together the next few days. And I have been reading up on the Dually and it looks good. Is this better than a chain halter? So many bits and bobs out there! &#128513; Thank you all so much!


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## AB81 (23 February 2016)

PS. Orca thank you and lovely horse!


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## AB81 (23 February 2016)

BethH - yes I have the book from previous recommendation on here and am studying away. I think it's just the overall pretending I'm not scared (bloody am!) when he bucks and rears. And the walkway to the field is so narrow and totally deep mud. So I'm battling getting my boot unstuck whilst trying to remember all the rules of keeping him in check. &#128533; Obviously I'm not doing terribly well with it otherwise he wouldn't be behaving so badly. Will have a look at horsemanship website now!


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## Carlosmum (23 February 2016)

Apart from all of the above... dually, ground work etc.  one of the things that helped me with my bolshy gelding when leading to the field was a slice of carrot.  Often when reaching the field he would reef away before I had a chance to release his headcollar.  The slice of carrot helped as a reward for waiting while I removed headcollar. I always made sure he was facing towards the middle of the field first so he didn't swing his bum towards me as he ran off.   Stopping and backing up every so often will also help keep his concentration on you.  Please do wear your BP & hat I was in the path of my boys back feet once, as he flew passed me bucking.  A rather painful experience.


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## AB81 (23 February 2016)

Yes shall ensure I wear hat and BP.
Releasing him into the field isn't too bad. When I first got him he would always spin and buck off but now he just plods off and waits for the headcollar to be released. And yes I always have him turn and face me. And then back up, eyes on him v quickly. So Dually over a chain then it looks like.


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## LHIS (23 February 2016)

I'd also recommend a dually - and yes I'd pick this over a chain halter.  IMO a dually is much kinder and just a nicer bit of kit.  You can use the dually for riding too (I used to as an extra bit of control when we first backed my youngster (I never needed it) by attaching another set of reins to the second nose band).


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## Orca (23 February 2016)

AB81 said:



			Thank you so much for all your positive suggestions and wise words. I agree definitely more time bringing in and working on the manners in the process. He always walks out with his head right up, so not sure how to get it down?....
Did lots with him yesterday. Getting him to go back and move his hindquarters. Lots of tail swishing but by the end of it I just stepped towards him and he moved back three steps. I totally agree having someone experienced help me with bringing in so my instructor and I will do this together the next few days. And I have been reading up on the Dually and it looks good. Is this better than a chain halter? So many bits and bobs out there! &#55357;&#56833; Thank you all so much!
		
Click to expand...

I would definitely choose a Dually over a chain. They are indeed kinder and I like the instant release of the Dually, when the horse is behaving appropriately. It makes it very easy for the horse to learn what is expected of it - so rather than being a brute force 'solution' (although it can be if necessary), it's a teaching tool 

I'm glad your groundwork is going well but don't forget to move his forehand too, so that he turns on his haunches. Moving him on the forehand, so his hind end gives is good but usually, it will be his shoulders which enter your space first (particularly in leading), so they need to give to sideways pressure too. Backing up is obviously a helpful way to move them out of your space or create a boundary but from a lead position, you need his front to move over, particularly if you're experiencing crowding.


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## BethH (23 February 2016)

Not a chain, horrid things and they don't release well.  I also hate be nice headcollars which are anything but and taught my horse to rear!  Dually's are great, you tie up as a normal headcollar (never tie on the nose rope clip!) and just clip on the the nose rope when you need to.  I have always used the dually because the nose rope releases immediately and doesn't get stuck so you can be much better with your timings.

You are doing well, I too would hate back legs in my face, fingers crossed it all gets sorted, you've already taken the 1st steps to doing so, well done, horses are a wonderful learning experience, it's just sometimes we all wish we didn't need to learn anything for a couple of days!!!


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## Makemineacob (24 February 2016)

Absolutely avoid a chain. Nasty things! 

I would recommend getting a horsemans halter and use a minimum of a 12ft line with it.  The huge benefit of a horsemans halter over a dually is that the pressure is released immediately, duallys do not release immediately and sometimes hardly at all (watch Monty Roberts in action to see him go back to the horse when he's doing loading etc to adjust the rope section).  You need to do groundwork to ensure that your horse respects you and your personal space and if you are unsure how to do it, you need to get someone knowledgeable in to help (intelligent horsemanship are excellent). 

I bought a dually a few years ago and was immediately concerned that it came with a warning that it can make some horses rear (it was noted about having to go to the horse to release the rope over the nose) and it did indeed make my big lad rear and made the whole situation a lot worse, I did so much research and had intelligent horsemanship out to help and it was decided a dually just was making things worse.  A horseman's halter worked immediately and he was much more happy. I now use them on anything that can be tricky to lead and always remain fully in control.  

You should be wearing a hat and BP whilst handling your horse to keep yourself safe. 

Best of luck


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## applecart14 (25 February 2016)

Yes dually is briliant, I ride in mine too.


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## littlemiss1 (25 February 2016)

I have a horse which behaves similar to this, i got help from a professional on ground work and he can still have his moments but i found no matter how scared i get and that can be very very scary when he's rearing and kicking out with his front legs is keep calm and hold your nerve good luck I'm looking forward to reading your progress


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## Pearlsasinger (26 February 2016)

A halter and schooling whip (to swish and tap or hold in front of him to stop him rushing forwards, not to hit him with), make him move his feet on command while you are leading him, keep him guessing, circle him, stop, back, turn, at your will, not his and reward him when he does as you ask.  Let him know that you are in charge - not by bullying him but by insisting that he does as you say.  Atm, all you are asking him to do, in his eyes, is to make his way from field to stable, or similar, and then restricting his progress.  Change this by giving him somehting to think about on the way to wherever you are going.  It will help your confidence too, as you will be concentrating onwhat you will ask him to do next.

good luck!


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## AB81 (8 March 2016)

Small update- have worked on leading and using Dually which is great. Have also done lots of activities on the way back to stable rather than walk. Also I'm remembering to praise. Think I got so tense I forgot to do this &#128580; He was a bum this weekend as he spotted fruit cake mare in field bucking and spooking so he then decided to follow but I remained calm and we worked through it.
 Just need to stop him looking at others bucking and spooking in fields whilst we're schooling....results in a bolt &#128548; 
But thanks all for your reassurance and advice X


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## BethH (8 March 2016)

This is progress, well done, slowly but surely, it sounds like you are starting to get the better of this.  As for the bolting thing, I suspect this is because he needs to build self confidence himself and also confidence in you.  Keep going and don't react, just calmly deal with it as you are and with time it will improve.  Mine was like this and I used to have an overwhelming desire to throttle him when he tanked off in hand, but I would make myself smile, take a deep breath and walk calmly on when I caught him!!!!! You're doing well, a small step forward will get you there in the end.


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## gothdolly (8 March 2016)

Its lovely to hear a positive update! I. Dithering over buying a dually for my new bad mannered baby cob.....


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## AB81 (8 March 2016)

I do recommend the dually and people were so correct here about remembering to release the pressure and reward. I always forget the pat reward. 
Thank you BethH. I think the bolting bit is absolutely confidence and I'm trying really hard not to get freaked out. Just relax on him like a sack of spuds. And in hand just to go with the flow (whilst needing a stiff drink deep down!). And ooooze confidence!!! Haha!
What a learning curve I'm on


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