# Leukocytoclastic Vasculitis



## landf (2 February 2013)

Has anyone whose horse has suffered from this got any advice....?  I have been battling with it now for 9 months and I have almost reached the end of the line.  My horse has been on 2 courses of high dose steroids as well as topical steroids and antibiotics.  But we never manage to get rid of it all - there is always a tiny area which then erupts as soon as steroids stop.  He's been on box rest for 2 months as he can't get legs wet, muddy or any direct sunlight on them and still it doesn't shift.

It's got to the point where I am questioning my horse's quality of life.....  The skin lesions are extremely painful, he doesn't cope well with the steroids which have a sedative effect on him and he's not allowed any turnout and can only be walked in a barn to avoid UV exposure.  I can't ride him either for all of the above reasons - can't cover legs with boots as they rub the lesions and when on the steroids he's too sedated to ride anyway!

Any advice?

I should point out that he has 4 white legs and all 4 are affected.


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## Rebels (2 February 2013)

Argh, just typed it out and stupid tablet deleted it!
Firstly, I've used germoline on lesions as it has a local anaesthetic in it, then I bandage as if over stitches so with a thick layer of cotton wool and then an elastic cotton bandage then a stable bandage. If they are super sore then thick cotton wool, then a soffban then stable bandage. It should give you nearly an inch of soft layers and shouldn't be too painful. If you can get covered then he can at least graze. Our lad was in for nearly 6 months on injections of Excenel and buckets of Predisnalone. He had no definition from his hock down on the hinds and knee down on the fronts plus his nose was cracked and sore so I was questioning life quality. Is your boy on bute? I would also try an immune boosting herbal powder, someone else will advise you better, we fed nettles and cleavers which has a blood cleansing effect. What lotions are you using on the lesions at the moment?


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## landf (2 February 2013)

Thanks for your reply.  The ground is too wet/muddy to turn him out even in bandages - his worst lesion is just above the coronet band, so very close to ground.

I thought boosting the immune system was the wrong thing to do as it is immune mediated - the whole point in giving steroids is to reduce the activity of the immune system.........

He was on Fuciderm and Fucidin H but they stopped working so he has recently changed onto Cortavance.  He's also been on Prednisolone then Dexamethasone.


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## Rebels (2 February 2013)

OK, maybe phrased it incorrectly , its a case of supporting the immune system. Nettles and cleavers seemed to help ours. With a very low lesion i would scrape and brush his foot out, then bandage down over the bulbs of the heels and then put a poutice type boot on which is taped to the bandage. Basically anything I could to give him 5 mins grazing in hand on the road side. I found bandaging like that even in the stable helped protect him from the UV plus helped keep the lesions clean. We tried a few different creams including sulphur paste which helped dry out some of the scabs/lesions. Occasionally I would dress a wound with a dressing or use animal lintex for its antiseptic properties. I was recommended manuka honey but never did try it. Flamazine sometimes helped, we had 2 or 3 on a cycle, one would stop and then the previous works for a bit.


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## landf (2 February 2013)

Does your horse still suffer from it or have you managed to finally get rid of it?


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## Rebels (2 February 2013)

After 5 years of low level 'what is it' and then 6 months of awful we had 2 years of fantastic, living out in mud, wet etc with no problems. All 4 legs grew super thick lovely white hair, not the thin patchy stuff he had previously. This was bootless, creamless all year round. Then with this snow he has had a few lesions come up overnight on both hinds which started to puff up. He has had a week of box rest staying clean and dry with a sudocrem wrap on initially to remove the scabs and its all nearly sorted, its just a case of letting it heal enough not to return. Same as mud fever in a standard horse I think, just that I know he has the possibility to escalate. This shouldn't need the vet.


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## landf (2 February 2013)

Glad you seem to have got on top of it.  I find it physically and mentally draining!  Can you pinpoint what seemed to get to the bottom of it?  Or is it just a case of chipping away trying different things?


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## Rebels (2 February 2013)

No one thing seemed to crack it, we had an arsenal and had to swap creams regularly. the drugs took an age to help, he was needle phobic by the end, so patient bless him but it was a nightmare. Like you said, mentally and physically draining especially with the extra box rest work. We stripped back the diet to as plain as possible, gave ad lib hay, oil etc to try and get him in the best physical condition we could. He spent nearly a year afterwards with UV boots and then turnout boots with 12 hours in the dry. We just kept chipping. Have you spoken to Professor Knottenbelt? He is the world expert and very helpful so could possibly advise a different drug your vet may not have tried.


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## landf (2 February 2013)

Yes, my vet contacted him petty early on.  My horse also spent 2 weeks in Liphook hospital undergoing specialist treatment which is when he was diagnosed.  My vet and I are still in regular contact with the specialist who dealt with him there.  I think they want to put him back on the Dexamethasone orally which I am really disappointed about - the dose he needs to be on completely wipes him out and he spend most of his time in a semi sedated state at the back of his box :-(


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## Rebels (2 February 2013)

How rubbish, I actually went to a talk by Knottenbelt, went home and told the vet what to Google! Sounds like your lad is bad, all I can say is that when its gone its gone, ours was so much happier and energetic, I didn't realise how much it must have taken out of him. In hindsight I may have added something like propell plus like I would with a normal infection. Fingers crossed for you.


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## flower549 (5 February 2013)

Sorry, I don't have any pearls of wisdom to add, but this is very sad.  I am sending a hug to both of you.

I hope this works out.

xx


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## Paint Me Proud (5 February 2013)

Have you considered trying sulphur powder on it?

My boy had a scabbed crusting nose for several weeks and i couldnt shift it. So i mixed some sulphur powder with aqueous cream and applied it. The result next morning got a literal 'OMG' from me, it had completely gone.

Worth considering.


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## SaharaS (5 February 2013)

oh no...have a horrible feeling I have one to add to the list..not confirmed yet but showing very similar, thankfully only one leg..I do hope both of yours come good..stick at it..I'm having dreadful troubles at the mo with one with something similarly horrific & physically draining is not the word so totally appreciate where you are coming from..hugs to all...

rosehips are a good tonic too & will boost the immune system - i second the nettles also and as controversial as this will sound, she mugged me for a whole garlic the other day & merrily chomped away on it & looked disgusted when the last clove had vanished..the next day was an easier day, so i tried it on the one who I suspect has LV & the same reprive the next morning..each of them seem to want garlic every other day, and turmeric powder rubbed into olive oil seems to be helping too-you could add seaweed to this and mix it in an aloe gel based paste & apply - speak to vet first if concerned but it seems to ease pain, swelling & sores in conjunction with the garlic.This bloody weather for the last year has been so hard on us all..hopefully spring will bring some hope.hang in there


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## jennie1000 (5 February 2013)

Does anyone have any photos o this condition and the elisions that I could see?


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## Billabongchick (5 February 2013)

Ours has been diagnosed with this yesterday after weeks of me treating it as mudfever. On day 1 of steroids and cream today but had been on box rest bandaged for past week anyway with little improvement and had been using Flamazine before. It seems buttercups can be a culprit in starting it off.


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## Rebels (5 February 2013)

Billabongchick- ours was reacting to the light reflecting back from the buttercups if you can believe it. He was tested for buttercup allergy but he wasn't allergic. Snow has the same effect, reckon a few more horses may be diagnosed as the light is reflected back more. It starts with anything that causes a constant low level reaction then the immune system just goes mad. After that then its just so reactive it doesn't take much to cause problems.


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## Billabongchick (5 February 2013)

Thank you Rebels. Apparently there were buttercups in her field and when we bought her just one tiny patch on her foreleg had popped up. Friend we got her from wasn't sure if it was mudfever as so high up but it has got consistently worse over past month or two and now we know why. I am hoping that the steroids will help clear it so I can bandage. 

What is the difference between UV and turn out boots? I was planning on polo bandages under t/o boots when we get to that point but am now worried reading this that the condition could turn into something far worse than initially imagined. 

Unfortunately I was away and when leg swelled up Sunday (was looking ok sat apparently) I asked YO to take her to vet Monday so I haven't spoken to the vet yet. Apparently they said ok to ride her as long as legs washed and dried after but they look so sore to me. However because they sedated her to descab what was left after clingfilm/sudocrem I did last week (which got rid of a lot) the scabs are minor now. I mean they are angry red/pink but not proud of the skin so much so fleece polo bandages should not cause too much discomfort by rubbing?


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## Rebels (5 February 2013)

Ours started with one scab on a front leg and ended up with 4 tree trunk legs, its a funny condition, hard to predict. UV boots are very light weight summer boots for when the ground is dry and ours are like a mesh so they don't heat the legs. Turnout boots are variable but tend to be thicker and can be heating.  Most are breathable but all are advised not to be worn more than 12 hours as they have a mildly supportive action on the leg. They are fitted like a second skin and usually end up vile after 2 seconds but ours were invaluable.
With regards to washing the legs we used malaseb then seleen shampoo, the lesions will be very sensitive to chlor hexidine so hibi scrub was out. We only washed when the creams were thick, we found it best to dry wipe off the clumps of cream then reapply instead of scrubbing. They have to be bone dry to have any cream back on, either hair dryed or left several hours. We would often put udder cream on to ride and he ended up bootless unless doing xc.


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## Billabongchick (5 February 2013)

Thanks, the T/O boots I have are neoprene hence I thought polo bandages might be good although I appreciate you wouldn't want to leave them on all day. She is happy stabled so even if she had limited turnout when dry that would be enough to keep her happy luckily. I am glad to hear that yours has been manageable mostly; hopefully the steroids will have a good effect and the other effects will be manageable and not too inhibiting for ours!


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## landf (8 February 2013)

Sorry, only just caught up with this again as I'm in the middle of a house move!

We took more scrapings this week and he now has a severe bacterial secondary infection again.  Specialist has prescribed Baytril.  It's an oral drug but I have to apply it directly to the lesions and hope for the best - the bacteria they found is pretty much resistant to everything apparently.  Vet is hopeful though.


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## Rebels (8 February 2013)

Fingers crossed for you.


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## sam72431 (8 February 2013)

Have you had liver tests run? What blood enzymes is he showing? My boy was diagnosed with this and showing high liver enzymes so I have worked on getting his liver healthy and his legs have now completely cleared up, following advice on this forum I got advice from the head nutritionist at Dodson and Horrell he is a different animal so full of energy and just happy in himself! Obviously different for different horses but he now has two and half scoops alfa a and three scoops of pasture mix with scoop of sugarbeet split into as many feeds as possible along with milk thiatle and naf blk the diet is very important!!


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## Billabongchick (9 February 2013)

Poor you Landf. I hope the oral stuff works for him. I'm back to the vet with ours on Monday for followup (it's looking better so far and she was full of life when i rode her yesterday as vet said ok with bandages on) and prob going to get liver test done for peace of mind. Also interested in supplements and diet to aid recovery. Is milk thistle the best to use? 

Been worrying a lot since she was diagnosed but another lady on yard next door with a lovely coloured horse said he had it last year and is fine now even without boots on so that made me feel a bit better.


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## landf (9 February 2013)

Yes, he's had blood test etc, and all clear.  Fingers crossed for the Baytril - the lesions are certainly less red tonight so hopefully it's doing something!

Mine is a coloured too Billabongchick - 4 completely white legs!  Encouraging that you know someone who has had a positive outcome.


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## landf (10 February 2013)

Sadly it looks like its back to the drawing board for us again as the Baytril has done nothing :-(


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## Billabongchick (10 February 2013)

Oh no, not good news. Maybe you could suggest cycling round the various treatments as Rebels said? Has anything worked at all at any point?


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## Rebels (11 February 2013)

Hi, could you ask your vet about trying something like medical grade manuka honey on the lesions? It may not cure them but it may give you long enough for him to have a break from creams, it could be worth a go for a week then you can reassess. Have you tried back to basics eg sudocrem wrap? When we reached a wall we rewrapped the legs and got a lot of muck out, smelt awful but skin did improve.


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## maginn (11 February 2013)

My horse also suffers with Leukocytoclastic Vasculitis (PLV) & thankfully I have found a solution that worked for her.  She suffered badly for 3 years as it wasn't diagnosed the first 2 winters she had it, the vets just thought it was mud fever, but she got it mid september every year and when that happened the 3rd year on the trot when in dry conditions I got a different vet out and finally a correct diagnosis. 

This is a really hard condition to deal with as you know.  So you might think I am a bit mad to say the best thing is not to treat it as such.  I was told that it was an old horseman's saying that you shouldn't treat "early onset mud fever" just leave it be. Perhaps the truth of this is because it isn't actually mud fever if the horse has if it gets it in a bone dry field.

I spent 2 years having vets out and I tried everything on offer.  My poor mare was so sore and fed up with me & nothing seemed to do any good, in fact she just got worse.  But I suppose the one thing that did seem to help her in the first 2 years was the onset of spring which helped to dry it up. As it was "getting better" I left well alone & then hey presto it cleared up.

Come year 3 I still hadn't learnt from this & she got a scabs on both heels again during mid september, so I went all out with another treatment which I thought was worth a shot.  Her legs just got steadily worse and more scabby & very pink ... She end up in a really bad way all four legs scabby as hell and worse than ever.  It was at this point I got a second vet out & thankfully a correct diagnonsis.  

With his agreement and as everything was making it worse we decided not to treat it for a few weeks and & see what happened.  The scabs got really thick & nasty looking but my mare was comfortable, not lame or sore, & after 3 weeks one leg was totally clear.  The others took longer and it did take about 3 months in all to be totally clear of it but I could see progress when before there had been none !

So this is what worked for me, no creams, lotions etc this will soften the scabs & they will come off, but they will soon be back. They need to be left to really dry up.  I used turnout boots but they must be close fitting & not rub (the close contact boot by Equilibrum are the best IMO). I would turn out in these, which also protects against the winter sun, bring in overnight removing the boots. Although the legs can get quite warm in them this did not seem to be an issue. Mud & wet will not make the scabs worse (this is not like mud fever) but it will not help in attempts to keep the area dry and if it is very wet & sore initially you could also get secondary infections like mud fever in addition to the PLV. 

If you are not going to turn out then you can skip this part just keep the areas as dry as possible, shavings bed would be better than straw.

It's really important to note that any rubbing or stimulation of the area & forced scab removal will encourage more scabbing so it is counter productive but if you leave them to dry up you will find that the scabs start to crack & reveal healthy skin underneath.  When it gets to this really dried up stage you can really gently fick away at any scabs that are  ready to come off - but do not rub & do not remove any scabs that are not ready to come off  - IF YOU SEE ANY BLOOD STOP. It is very hard not to over fiddle I almost have to sit on my hands but it does work. I would only do this once a week tops, and be prepared that it will look a lot worse initially as the scabs may well get really thick. I reasoned that my horse was much more comfortable with non scab removal & although unsightly it was not causing a problem for her.  

Something I tried this year may also help but is not totally necessary is Cortavance - this is a steriod spray (used for cats & dogs usually) but it does not enter the bloodstream so it's not dangerous like steriods that you inject, this a POM so you will need to get it from the vet but it was recommended to be by Derek Knottenbelt.  Derek did advise scab removal under cling film wraps before treating in this way, but I did try this and it didn't work for my mare. Leaving the scabs to dry, removal of any dried up ones & then a spray really worked. It seems to help stop the scabs reforming as I guess it surpresses the immune overreaction.  This year there was only one leg to deal with (now clear) and last year she was completely free of it.

Best of luck to you. Be brave & try it


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## Billabongchick (11 February 2013)

Have been to the vets with ours this afternoon and she was very pleased with progress to the point she said it looked much better than she expected it would. I intend to keep her in until all skin is entirely healthy and will then have to tackle the bandage or boot issue. As she has such sensitive skin she did suggest just using sun screen to avoid rubs. Just hope some dry weather comes soon. She has downed her dosage of steroids to wean her off too so then we will be down to just Flamazine to stay on top of it.


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## Rebels (11 February 2013)

I found maginn s method to work when he had low level scabs but when he was hit badly and was lying down groaning from the pain then we had no choice but to throw everything at it. Its so hard, it seems to vary so much horse to horse and become frustrating to the point of obsession.


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## SaharaS (11 February 2013)

Just worth mentioning, that I slathered lavender oil (pure essential)in olive oil all over the affected areas and was getting good control,in desperation, at one point I ran out of both and used Oilatum & then Diprobase bath emolient(was intended for my eczema)  There was a noticeable difference over night so I've kept on using it. Obviously speak to vet,it may or may not be suitable for your horse, but as Rebels said, they all vary so much & each one is affected differently.Once off antibiotics, I added apple cider vinegar to his water/feed daily as its a natural anti biotic.Fur grew back within a week despite him looking like a shedding snake for a day or 2 with 'paint strippered' legs..interestingly when i applied any previous chemical treatments, he would kick out & strongly object, once i started using the lavender, he willingly held his legs out for the mixture to be applied & was visibly soothed-I've had evil cuts heal with no scar within a week of applying neat lavender, including ones which should have been stitched & can assure you it doesn't hurt. I would always use a base oil with it tho on a horse.


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## Billabongchick (12 February 2013)

SaharaS said:



			once i started using the lavender, he willingly held his legs out for the mixture to be applied & was visibly soothed-I've had evil cuts heal with no scar within a week of applying neat lavender, including ones which should have been stitched & can assure you it doesn't hurt. I would always use a base oil with it tho on a horse.
		
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Interesting; when I thought it was mudfever I tried my own cream of baby bum cream (bepanthen) and lavender oil with tea tree mixed together. It seemed to keep it under control until the really wet weather hung around.

I forgot to say ours had a blood test yesterday to rule out any liver issues so waiting to hear back this morning so fingers crossed liver function is all normal. I'm definitely a big believer in you should heal from the inside out using diet if possible so will adjust once I know more detail and try and boost her immune system to give her help to stop it flaring up.  This is, as you say Rebels, a frustrating medical issue and each horse seems to be different so I guess we are on a steep learning curve.


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## landf (12 February 2013)

Has anyone managed to get rid of it and not have a relapse?  The specialist dealing with mine says that in his experience, once it's gone it's gone for good providing you remove potential triggers e.g, alfalfa, soya, strong sunlight etc, etc, however, I am yet to come across anyone who has cured and not had a reoccurrence.......


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## Billabongchick (12 February 2013)

The lady with the coloured sports horse at yard next door I mentioned in an earlier post had hers 2 years ago and no reoccurance since despite no boots or creams apparently. Vet seemed to think prognosis with our girl was quite good and that once she is cleared up that suncream on white legs should be sufficient for turnout as long as it's dryish.


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## landf (12 February 2013)

There's some hope at least then!  Vet is back out to mine today.  Going back on high dose of oral steroids for 3wks as well as Betnovate N topically.  

After that, I suspect my insurance will have reached the £5k cap so really keeping my fingers crossed!


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## Billabongchick (12 February 2013)

How severe was yours when you got it diagnosed 9 months ago Landf? From what I can gather it is a case of getting on top of the initial problem with lesions and then once you have it cleared up then managing carefully (keeping dry and clean as much as poss) and keeping an eye out for flare ups and catching it quickly if you get any. Ours got really bad as we thought it was mudfever for so long.


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## landf (12 February 2013)

Was only diagnosed 2 months ago.  Like you, we assumed it was mudfever initially.  Before it was diagnosed as LV all 4 legs were swollen and covered in lesions from hock/knee to coronet.  Now he only has 3 patches - 2 relatively small and 1 that covers most of his pastern.  He has 1 leg that has completely healed and is still clear - I guess that in itself is a good sign :-/


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## Billabongchick (13 February 2013)

Sounds like it is clearing up then so not all hope lost? Stick at it! Bloods came back clear for liver issues for ours today thank god so vet thinks it's just one of those things that she developed it. Hope it will be manageable... Bring on spring and hopefully dry weather...


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## Rebels (13 February 2013)

Thought I would post an after pic for you. Bear in mind this horse showed symptoms for nearly 5 years before we had a definitive diagnosis and that was only because I saw a talk by Professor Knottenbelt and hit Google.







These, when we hit treatment hard, had no definition from the knee down, he couldn't bend any part, the back of the pastern was just raw and oozing, even the cream slid off, then he had little scabby lumps come up on the outside of the fetlock joints which within days were growing in size and thickness. These then cracked and started oozing. Before his major flare up the hair on the legs was very thin and almost clear, we had been trying to preserve it but when it started to get messy we clipped the hair to the skin. It didn't grow back for months until the skin was settled but as you can see came back really thick and white. Hope this gives hope, I had considered PTS due to his pain levels. Cautionary note though, it wasn't until several months later he showed hoof rings which vet put down to steroid laminitis. He was never lame though.


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## landf (13 February 2013)

Yes, mine has definitely improved since its been correctly diagnosed.  But, as I said earlier, he has since deteriorated again and although now only has a few patches, these patches are spreading by the day.  Anyway, he's back on steroids now so we'll see what happens.  Trouble is, he can't stay on steroids forever......

Interesting about the hoof rings - mine has them.


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## Hawks27 (13 February 2013)

Is there test to confirm this dissorder? my horse is in his 6th week of treatment for mud feaver, he is a pink skinned overo with 3 full white legs all of which are affected and his hind legs have massive lesions on the cannons and lot sof smaller lesions around the pastern/fetlock area after reading this thread i am now concerned we could be treating the wrong dissorder and my vet is due back friday so wondering if thier are additional tests i should be requesting


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## soloequestrian (13 February 2013)

Hawks27 said:



			Is there test to confirm this dissorder? my horse is in his 6th week of treatment for mud feaver, he is a pink skinned overo with 3 full white legs all of which are affected and his hind legs have massive lesions on the cannons and lot sof smaller lesions around the pastern/fetlock area after reading this thread i am now concerned we could be treating the wrong dissorder and my vet is due back friday so wondering if thier are additional tests i should be requesting
		
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Mine had a biopsy, which was unpleasant and expensive, but conclusive.  There would be no harm in treating as if the condition is LV and seeing what happened though - basically treat the mud fever with whatever you can get to work but also block UV by using boots or bandages during daylight.


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## Hawks27 (13 February 2013)

Thanks for the advice following little improvement on a course of antibiotics from vet he is now on a course of steroids and the new scabs seem to have stopped and the old scabs are no owrsening and the raw areas are not so rare but it doesnt look like its going away (hopefully that makes sense!)
Hes stopped getting worse but not got better, he still has few more days of steroids and he has been on box rest the entire time with jsut exercising in hand on the road to ensure the legs stay dry and he is mucked out 3 times a day and kept in deep straw to also aid in keping legs dry. i've bought him a full set of the equi chaps clos contact ones and now the worst fo the sore and mobile scabs have come off i have been putting the boots on to stretch his legs so hopefully i will se some greateer improvement in the next 2-4 weeks weather its either the lv or mud feaver but either way i think am going to leave him in the boots for turnout all winter and invest in the UV ones for the summer just to eb on safe side


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## Billabongchick (13 February 2013)

soloequestrian said:



			Mine had a biopsy, which was unpleasant and expensive, but conclusive.
		
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Vet said to us that had the steroids and creams not had some effect that she would biopsy but she was fairly certain just from looking at it that it was LV and a week on the treatment is working well. She is still raw skinned (well they are very pink with odd worse red patch) but vets advice was to try and ride as she is not lame and keep her from wasting muscle and getting too bored. 

I'm riding with polo bandages to keep dirt/light away and avoiding wet weather.  If yours has lesions Hawks then using even close contact boots at this point might be too aggressive against the skin if he is very scabby; fleece polo bandages are good as they sit next to the skin so dirt doesn't get under easily and are soft as well as being easily washable. You can also bandage lower than you usually would to help protect lower fetlocks. Did the vets not give you any topical cream as well as the steroids? Ours is just on Flamazine now (2 x a day, stabled 24/7, no bandages) and legs are looking good if pink - the tiniest odd dry scab but nothing worse and I hope it keeps improving fingers crossed! I haven't tried to upload pics on here yet but will try at some point so you can see how they look at this point.


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## Hawks27 (13 February 2013)

Billabongchick said:



			Vet said to us that had the steroids and creams not had some effect that she would biopsy but she was fairly certain just from looking at it that it was LV and a week on the treatment is working well. She is still raw skinned (well they are very pink with odd worse red patch) but vets advice was to try and ride as she is not lame and keep her from wasting muscle and getting too bored. 

I'm riding with polo bandages to keep dirt/light away and avoiding wet weather.  If yours has lesions Hawks then using even close contact boots at this point might be too aggressive against the skin if he is very scabby; fleece polo bandages are good as they sit next to the skin so dirt doesn't get under easily and are soft as well as being easily washable. You can also bandage lower than you usually would to help protect lower fetlocks. Did the vets not give you any topical cream as well as the steroids? Ours is just on Flamazine now (2 x a day, stabled 24/7, no bandages) and legs are looking good if pink - the tiniest odd dry scab but nothing worse and I hope it keeps improving fingers crossed! I haven't tried to upload pics on here yet but will try at some point so you can see how they look at this point.
		
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I have only used the boots this week as all the large nodular wobbly scabs have gone and the remaining scabs are solid and flat to his skin and its for hlaf hr to and hr while i walk him out for a leg stretcher as he is not backed yet so no ridden work and i have no facilities here so cant lunge in a school or anything i have soft bandages which i was goign to use to lunge him in but sadly our grass cholling area has got a bit boggy this year when normally its ok 90% of year round. we did have some fuciderm gel we used this for 3 weeks whilst he was on the antibiotics its settled down but by no means gone away.


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## Billabongchick (13 February 2013)

Hawks27 said:



			we did have some fuciderm gel we used this for 3 weeks whilst he was on the antibiotics its settled down but by no means gone away.
		
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Just seen your post in other thread! We had Synulox for the worst patches (a mini tube shared between the 2 worst legs) which lasted for 3 days twice a day then Flamazine for the other less bad bits (which is what we are continuing with as a long term treatment as and when needed).  This was combined with the steroids which I am now reducing dosage of.

If it is LV with yours and he hasn't been protected from UV light then that is maybe why it isn't going away just staying the same?  Just to mention I put ours on box rest voluntarily myself for nearly 2 weeks whilst still thinking it was mudfever and trying to dry it out/sudocrem/clingfilm etc and the swelling only started badly after the 2 weeks in which is when we called the vet and got diagnosis. Meaning that it seems it can flare up some time after being affected by UV as she had been gamgee'd and bandaged non stop for 2 weeks.


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## Hawks27 (14 February 2013)

Billabongchick said:



			Just seen your post in other thread! We had Synulox for the worst patches (a mini tube shared between the 2 worst legs) which lasted for 3 days twice a day then Flamazine for the other less bad bits (which is what we are continuing with as a long term treatment as and when needed).  This was combined with the steroids which I am now reducing dosage of.

If it is LV with yours and he hasn't been protected from UV light then that is maybe why it isn't going away just staying the same?  Just to mention I put ours on box rest voluntarily myself for nearly 2 weeks whilst still thinking it was mudfever and trying to dry it out/sudocrem/clingfilm etc and the swelling only started badly after the 2 weeks in which is when we called the vet and got diagnosis. Meaning that it seems it can flare up some time after being affected by UV as she had been gamgee'd and bandaged non stop for 2 weeks.
		
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This sounds exactly like what i did i found the initially scabs and decided to keep him in washed the legs with hibiscrub towel dried and then applied sudocream for 2 weeks at which point he seemed to get worse the legs became warm and swollen and i called the vets, he is now in his 6th week of being stabled and onyl goes out for in hand leg stretchers so his legs havent really had any uv exposure in this whole time vet is due back tomorow and he has 4more days left of his injection steroids they have gone down considerably now and some scabs have cleared up theres definetly some improvement but once gone i am going to boot for turn out rather than barrier cream just incase it is the lv and if it ever comes back or it doesnt ocntinue to clear up i will get biopsy / skin scrapes done


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## Billabongchick (14 February 2013)

Hawks27 said:



			once gone i am going to boot for turn out rather than barrier cream just incase it is the lv
		
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If your horse can take having boots on then that is the best I guess; ours has very sensitive thin skin so I think boots on every day with no soft padding under will rub her hence vet suggested using sunblock/cream instead. I also am not keen on the idea of boots or bandages being left on for prolonged time every day due to possible tendon damage...


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## Hawks27 (14 February 2013)

Billabongchick said:



			If your horse can take having boots on then that is the best I guess; ours has very sensitive thin skin so I think boots on every day with no soft padding under will rub her hence vet suggested using sunblock/cream instead. I also am not keen on the idea of boots or bandages being left on for prolonged time every day due to possible tendon damage...
		
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He is out for approx 9hrs during day in winter and in at night so will only have boots on while he is out and get a good breather at night, he's not sensitive and very good with the boots on am really lucky he is the most understanding little horse will elt me do anything too him and stands so still for me i cant believe what an angel he is. i dont fancy leaving him booted in summer as he will be out 24x7 spring to autumn am looking at the equi chap sun chaps but if hes getting hot and sweaty in these i wil probably apply sun block instead, luckily stables are a 10min walk from my house so i could walk down late in the evening when the sun is going down and take the boots off to give him a breather too. reckon its jsut going to eb trial and error till we find out what works best for poor lad


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## Rebels (14 February 2013)

I used the equilibrium sun chaps, they worked well and were super light and breathable, keep checking equestrian clearance as they can come up very cheap.


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## Tigo (14 February 2013)

My warmblood has had this for the whole time I have owned him (10 years) started out with vets not knowing what it was lots of creams lotions and potions later plus lots of antibiotics a vet finally diagnosed him with of.

My best advise is do not touch his legs do not brush them if possible and do not use creams boots or anything in them. My horses is barefoot and lives out and he is doing great it seems to make no difference what conditions he lives it the latter living out in rain and snow seems to suit him and his lv the best.

Never use neoprene on them and have as low sugar diet as possible.

Hope that helps, he is treated with prednisalone not sure that's spelt right, when he has a flare up which are getting less and less and less severe.


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## landf (15 February 2013)

10yrs??!!!  I take my hat off to you as I think I will have lost the will to live if I have to deal with this for that long!


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## Hawks27 (15 February 2013)

Rebels said:



			I used the equilibrium sun chaps, they worked well and were super light and breathable, keep checking equestrian clearance as they can come up very cheap.
		
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Thanks for the tip off i will keep my eye out as already well and truely run out of funds he didnt give me time to recover from buying him before getting his vet bill the little devil


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## Billabongchick (15 February 2013)

Hawks27 said:



			Thanks for the tip off i will keep my eye out as already well and truely run out of funds he didnt give me time to recover from buying him before getting his vet bill the little devil
		
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Lol, ours too - we only got her in November and she arrived with a teeny tiny scabby patch on the side of one cannon bone (got her from a mate so I know she had no previous issues) which wasn't there when we went to try her. Had her on month trial and it didn't flare up badly til Jan... still we wouldn't send her back as she is ace! Will also keep an eye out for these, thanks.


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## Hawks27 (15 February 2013)

Billabongchick said:



			Lol, ours too - we only got her in November and she arrived with a teeny tiny scabby patch on the side of one cannon bone (got her from a mate so I know she had no previous issues) which wasn't there when we went to try her. Had her on month trial and it didn't flare up badly til Jan... still we wouldn't send her back as she is ace! Will also keep an eye out for these, thanks.
		
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Yeah i bought my lad in October and other than sever sunbrun on his pink muzzle which i rectified in a couple of weeks he had perfectly smooth healthy legs till new years day and hes been in since then poor sod though as hes improving at last am hoping to turn him out in the boots next week for a few hours a day till am hapopy he can wear them allday without them making his legs worse probably trial him in small paddock at weekend and keep bringing him in every couple of hourse to amke sure hes still ok and not rubbed and sore. I love him to bits hes such a saint and i still cant quite get use to it as my last horse was an unhandled 2yr old who was a complete loon


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## Tigo (15 February 2013)

Yep 10 very long years and painful ones for Ollie and my bank balance but thankfully he is fine now. He has 3 white left all have been effected by it but the backs are the worst. His ginger front leg has never had anything.


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## Hawks27 (18 February 2013)

Tigo said:



			Yep 10 very long years and painful ones for Ollie and my bank balance but thankfully he is fine now. He has 3 white left all have been effected by it but the backs are the worst. His ginger front leg has never had anything.
		
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he he must be mines double hes 3 whites and one ginger fore leg which is fine a couple of scabs on his white front fetlock and his hind legs are riddled.
I turned my boy out for 3hr saturday in boots all was good and 6hrs sunday still looking good so hes gone out for the whole day today, fingers crossed he comes in looking just as good tonight!


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## Billabongchick (19 February 2013)

How is turnout going? I'm hoping the recent drier weather will dry the track to the field enough that I can turn ours out next week as scabs/pink skin are healing nicely


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## Hawks27 (19 February 2013)

Turnout has been great i was reluctant to try him in the boots till all the scabs had gone incase they rubbed them and made worse so did it slowly over the weekend checking his legs regularly to make sure there were no problems and he has been fine no heat no swelling and no sore bits and there still continueing to heal and the scabs are just brushing off each night with my hands am not pulling them just gently dusting his legs down with my hands and any that are loose are dropping off and the skin underneath all looks good and the hairs growing back nicely. he had a full day out yesterday and all seems very good so hes out again today with his boots and a little vasaline around the cornet band to help stop the the little bit of mud that gets under the bottom of the boot and its working well hes so happy to be out too back with his fried and having a good charge around which is lovely as he enjoys running bless him he was getting a bit footy and stiff after 6 weeks of just in hand exercise so nice to see him blasting around and stretching his legs properly just hope all continues to heal and it never comes back.


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## Billabongchick (19 February 2013)

I am getting to the point of considering turnout next week as although she seems fairly happy in I don't agree with it and I'd like her to get some decent grazing if it dries up a bit more.

The turnout boots I bought before are rubbish as don't extend over hoof so that is where they rubbed her when we tried them. What are the equilibrium ones made of as if they are thinner they might sit better on her bony little legs! 

Does anyone have any ideas for a barrier cream that I can mix with sun block? 

Landf, how is yours getting on now? Any improvement?


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## landf (19 February 2013)

Nope.  New areas developed in the last week even though he is back on oral steroids.


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## Hawks27 (19 February 2013)

Billabongchick said:



			I am getting to the point of considering turnout next week as although she seems fairly happy in I don't agree with it and I'd like her to get some decent grazing if it dries up a bit more.

The turnout boots I bought before are rubbish as don't extend over hoof so that is where they rubbed her when we tried them. What are the equilibrium ones made of as if they are thinner they might sit better on her bony little legs! 

Does anyone have any ideas for a barrier cream that I can mix with sun block? 

Landf, how is yours getting on now? Any improvement?
		
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I have the equilibrium close contact boots as thier a breathable fabric and he is a naturally hot horse and hasn't sweated in the boots and he was out from 7.30 to 5 yesterday so had a good days wear, they have a soft neoprene bit that extends over the hoof the upper fabric is dimpled and quite soft and he seems to be getting on fine with them, the boots aren't cheap new about £60/pair but i managed to get mine on ebay for around £25 - £30 am desperately trying to get a 2nd pair so i can wash and dry them easier


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## Rebels (20 February 2013)

Second the equilibrium chaps, super hard wearing to. A dusting of muddy buddy mud fever powder also helps inside if the ground is wet. Ours didnt get on with suncream, still to much UV hence his summer UV boots as well.


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## Billabongchick (27 February 2013)

Well I managed to get some Equilibrium boots 2nd hand to try so she has had her first little bit of turnout 2 days ago which I am pleased about. Only did 40 mins just to give her a chance for a roll etc (the horse next door has eaten the wooden fence posts in her 5 week absence so the electric tape was a bit droopy hence only 40 mins supervised ) but the boots seemed quite good. It is drizzling again now which means track to field will get muddy again but at least she's been out now. She even broke into a trot at one point 

I am now thinking more about supplements to aid recovery from the inside out as lesions are almost totally gone; she is on Brewers Yeast and Garlic at the moment (just because I inherited them from a sales livery that got sold!) but does anyone who has had contact with this Dr. Knottenbelt guy (spelling??) or done more experimentation with this condition feedwise have any suggestions for immune boosting herbs or MudGuard type supplements please?

I found a link the other day to an American website where a lady who sadly lost her horse to LV (but combined with another immune issue) had posted a mine of information she'd researched from worldwide sources about the condition and it was really interesting. It was on my ipad so will link it to here next time I'm on it.


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## Hawks27 (27 February 2013)

My lad is in his 2nd week fo being turned out in the boots allday seeming ok so far most of scabs have gone still a few stubborn ones in thier, he has slight puffyness in a morning in fetlocks but vet is confident this will resolve in a few weeks and is probably just damage to lymphatics drainage system form the infection. it goes away while he is out during the day so this is likely correct as movement would shift lymphatic build up.
Am using the keratex mud shield powder for wet weather, i already had him on micronized linseed brewers yeast seaweed and rosehips but after much research it seems its low levels of zinc and copper that can cause weak skin so am going to swap him to pro balance + linseed which i intended to do anyway as his feet still aren't as good as i'd like for a barefoot horse and this has zinc and copper in it as well. though from googling i have found other zinc/copper feed supplements like copper triton and wonder if these would be better though from this forum alone pro-balance or pro-hoof from progressive earth seams to very well recomended for skin and hoof conditions.


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## Billabongchick (28 February 2013)

Right, I thought I would share this with you guys; I actually contacted Dr. Knottenbelt asking about feed/supplements to help with this condition and what a lovely man  ; despite not knowing me from Adam he sent me the detailed information below and said it was fine for me to share it with you so I hope this is of help:

"This condition is quite unique in that it is due to a rather unusual immune response we think to pollen and other proteins from yellow flowered plants last summer. A few horses have a 'reaction' between the plant proteins and their own antibodies and these complexes are deposited in the outer layers (not usually the deeper ones) of the skin. Where they form in white skinned areas they are photoactivatable and so when they are exposed to sunlight they react and cause inflammation. This will continue while those complexes remain and because they are big molecules they have to grow / wear out!!  That can take months and any flares that occur simply turn the revert clock backwards!!!  The downside is that you have to be very careful therefore to avoid flares / management break downs. The upside of putting effort in now is that it seldom if ever recurs once its gone. 

It's not immune boosting you need it's immune suppression if you need anything since it is a result of an abnormal antibody response!  *To help you can feed her out of galvanised trough if you can find one or you can add a zinc supplement but possibly the best extra measure is a small daily supply of sunflower oil or preferably evening primrose but the benefit of the latter is not worth the extra cost!  It will come right but be careful now because the sun is getting bad and of course snow is very bad!!!*"

I was very grateful to hear about the molecular structure and how this condition actually 'works' so to speak as other info available has been a bit muddled and unclear. And am also gladdened to hear that in most cases if properly managed initially then it hopefully will never happen again. So there is hope for all of us!


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## Hawks27 (28 February 2013)

Thats fantastic information thank you veyr much for sharing, i will ccertainyl add some oil to my lads feed as no harm in it and now pay dya is here i am ordering him some pro-balance as well for the zinc hoepfully he will never get this again hes almost cleared up now just a handful os cabs in his hind legs and they are lessening daily and the hairs grown back the boots seem to be working great for him


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## Tigo (28 February 2013)

Do you have an email address for Dr Knotterbelt, I would be very grateful for some advise on my boy.

Does only one have any recommendation for zinc supplements and how much to give them?

Many thanks


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## Billabongchick (2 March 2013)

I just looked him up on Liverpool University website! Not sure re quantities for zinc as need to get it sorted out myself! X


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## Silverfire (2 March 2013)

Do your horses have a strong pulse on there pasterns with this? My horse has some scabs on her fetlocks at the moment and quite often she has got a strong pulse on her pastern.


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## Billabongchick (2 March 2013)

I can't say I have noticed this but then I try to not handle her legs as much as possible other than when applying cream or bandaging to ride as the skin is quite pink still. They are usually a bit filled from being stood in the stable prior to riding too so I doubt a pulse would be that easy to feel anyway.


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## Billabongchick (16 March 2013)

How is everyone getting on with this now? Ours is getting turnout in equilbrium chaps most days now and generally looking better although the scabs left seem to come and go in terms of angryness. Legs get puffy in mornings if in so trying to get her out as much as poss to help drainage. Have got her on zinc and sunflower oil as suggested in earlier post.


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## Billabongchick (30 April 2013)

Hello all who were posting on this; I have been trialling Equimed AG boots (silver and carbon lining) that I got 2nd hand from a friend. Been using them for 3-4 weeks and gone from hideous scabs to almost totally gone/healthy skin. My vet was shocked when she happened to pop into yard yesterday and I showed her our current progress as she thought our mare would be scarred for a long time due to the severity of the lesions. 

If your horse is stabled at any point (these can only be used inside) then please do yourself a HUGE favour and get some as it has massively changed how I am dealing with this condition. No more creams that bedding sticks to and irritating legs with washing; these boots just go on clean legs whenever in the stable and do their thing. They are expensive (hence why I took a punt on them working when I got offered 2nd hand at vastly reduced price) but bearing in mind how much I spent on mudfever stuff and then vets stuff since diagnosis I just wish I'd known how good they were. I think the zinc powder and sunflower oil added to her feed (as suggested by Dr. Knottenbelt) has helped hugely too. 

Anyway, wanted you all to know as it has been such a success after a horrible horrible winter treating it.


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## Tigo (2 May 2013)

How much Zinc and oil are you adding to his feeds?


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## Billabongchick (2 May 2013)

About 1/4 mug s oil and 2 scoops of biotin which contains organic zinc


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## Street_Skill (2 May 2013)

Hi,

My Arab mare was diagnosed with this in the late 90's-at this time I was told that there were only around 12 confirmed cases in the country.  She was grey, with absolutely no pigmentation on any of her lower legs, but thankfully only the near fore was affected.  The leg was HUGE and she developed massive scabs the worst of which was about the size of the palm of my hand on her fetlock.  The treatment was very long and drawn out and consisted of udder cream mixed with granular antibiotics applied topically to the whole of the lower leg.  The leg was then covered with cling film and a bandage applied gently over the top to soften the scabs.  I then gently washed the cream/antibiotic mixture off which usually took the scabs with it.  I also had good results with Calendula cream-the good quality stuff from a herbalist rather than the type you can buy from Boots.  I can't remember if I box rested her or not.  I think she may have been initially but she wasn't the type that you could coop up for too long so turning her out with the leg bandaged to protect it from the sun was a happy medium for her.  I did get on top of it eventually and she did make a full recovery.  She was always sensitive to light and I also found that she was prone to lymphangitis after this.  During the summer she would nearly always develop a few scabs on that leg and would also get very bad sunburn on her pink nose.  I managed this fairly easily with topical moisturisers, factor 50 children's sun block and keeping her working!  She did go back in to full ridden work and never really looked back.  I sadly lost her prematurely at the age of 16 due to unrelated pedal bone rotation.

She was always a fighter and there was never any doubt in my mind that she would pull through, however I don't know if I would have felt the same way if it had affected more than one leg.

I hope this helps-good luck with your horse.


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## Billabongchick (19 June 2013)

Just thought I'd point you guys in the direction of this ad I saw as I know some of you were having issues getting hold of sun chaps due to Equilibrium not selling them this year due to redesign. I have a full set and can't afford spares but they are hard to come by and someone on NFED has some in a tack room clear out sale here http://www.nfed.co.uk/index35.htm. Hopefully they might be good to someone if still available? Not my ad by the way in case I get accused of advertising on here but I struggled to get mine on eBay etc.


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## msarah (17 March 2014)

Hi does your horse still struggle with this? Have you tried Equi-Med Ag boots? www.equimedag.com I have had boots for mud fever but notice that people have used them to help with LV - there's a testimonial on the website too.


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## Billabongchick (24 March 2014)

I've got rid of mine totally with the Equimed boots and not had a problem since. Almost a year of no issues now long may it continue although still turnout booting just in case. Also still feeding Biotin for the high zinc content.


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