# Horse left alone at abandoned yard



## Fools Motto (30 December 2017)

Just heard that a horse has been 'forgotten' about and left alone at an abandoned livery yard (same yard I was on several years ago). The owners of the yard live abroad, (I have no further details of their whereabouts) and had let it to what was the YM when I was there. This YM was, shall we say 'different'. I left after a good 6 months, and rumour has it, she got asked to leave sometime earlier this year due to her behaviour.
Most of the livery owners had clearly found other yards, but the owner of this lone horse (I do know the horse from when I was there) had asked the YM to care for it. (I think they are also abroad), quite possibly this horse was left to the YM. YM has taken hers but left this one. Mare been on her own now for a good few weeks, since the horse transporter picked up her companion (owned by another person, and unaware of leaving just one behind.

I feel so tempted to A) go and check for myself, B) if this story is true (good authority it is, literally just been told by a good source) that I go and take the mare to ''my yard'' to care for her,  - but can I do this? As far as I know, I'm the only one who knows the mares name! 
I'm worried about the water supply... it can freeze/be turned off, or it's manual in which case she won't have any! Poor thing.
Really worried actually... Shocked too. Poor mare.


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## bluehorse (31 December 2017)

Shame on the YM for leaving this poor girl.  If you are able to please go and check and make arrangements for her. I'm sure rescue charities will help under these cirumstances.  I'm actually not sure why you're asking on here it must be obvious something needs to be done and it sounds like you are the only person well placed to do it, through no fault of your own.  Take action, please.


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## Lintel (31 December 2017)

Oh dear how horrid. I'd defintley go and check it out, see how the horse is and the condition it is in. If bad enough contact WHW or RSPCA straight away but if not leave a message with your number making owner/carer aware you have been and to contact you ASAP regarding the horses welfare. If no contact after 24hours(longest I would ever leave my ponies without a check) I would leave a notice saying you have her and with your number. Then I'd take her 

Poor wee mare though hope she is ok, keep us up to date ! X


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## GirlFriday (31 December 2017)

I'm sorry but you have no reason to suppose that the mare has been 'abandoned' at this stage, no?
- Owners of yard are unlikely to have asked a tenant to leave without alternative plans (sale? new tenant? return themselves?) any of these would involve someone on the ground fairly soon (to get keys etc off the old tenant for one thing)
- Plenty of horses up and down the country are kept alone for periods of time, sometimes for long periods, you don't know that someone isn't attending to the mare's (non equine company) needs on a daily basis
- In fact you don't actually know it is still there at all

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that, at the moment, it is a little soon to be jumping to conclusions or panicking. Can you do a little web-stalking tonight for the mare's owner or the YOs - you might still have them in a whatsapp group, on FBook etc? - tonight and then pop around a check (from public rights of way only) tomorrow if no joy?

That being said, without someone getting hold of the YOs it is going to be pretty hard to prove that mare is not visited daily unless you actually camp out there for 24hr... WHW/RSPCA for advice if mare looks in a bad way/is clearly without water?

ETA: stealing the horse is a pretty terrible idea


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## Beausmate (31 December 2017)

If you know the horse, how well do the owners know you?  How do you think they would feel if you were to go and pick their horse up, take it home and look after it while you tried to contact them?

If you know for sure that the horse has been abandoned and the rightful owners are unaware, can you find them to let them know?  If my horse was left like that, I would be extremely grateful for someone to collect it and tell me what had happened, rather than leave it to its fate, alone in the winter.

But some people wouldn't be happy about that at all.

I would go and have a look for any evidence that the horse was being looked after, or not, then decide what to do.


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## Sandstone1 (31 December 2017)

Can't you go and look and see if it's true that she's there alone.
With the weather we have had recently if no one is careing for her then she will be in a poor state surely?
Find out if it's true then ring rspca who I know are not great but if she's been abandoned will have to do something.


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## MrsNorris (31 December 2017)

A, moniter the situation if it&#8217;s close enough for you to do easily, you&#8217;ll soon know if she&#8217;s being attended to or not by her condition at this time of year. If not, report to WHW, don&#8217;t bother with RSPCA, they are useless and once you&#8217;ve contacted them, WHW won&#8217;t get involved even if the RSPCA fail to act, which seems to be most of the time. Definitely not B, that would be a last resort to save a horse in imminent danger for me. Hope it all works out, just glad that people are concerned and that this one won&#8217;t slip through the net.


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## blitznbobs (31 December 2017)

A. Is fine b is theft...


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## meleeka (31 December 2017)

Go and see. You really dont need the RSPCA at this stage and I would advise against it for now because it will just drag on. A very similar thing happened to me. WHW were very helpful in explaining what to do. We put an amandonment notice on the gate and waited 7 days, then took the pony to a rescue lady that wed already arranged with. It was simple really and the poor pony didnt go hungry because we fed him. The owner did surface after a couple of months and wanted her pony back but when the sanctury owner explained she owed two months livery plus vet, Farrier and dentist costs she went away again. This pony was 40


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## Amymay (31 December 2017)

Just go and have a look and then phone whw if there seems to be a problem.


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## Alec Swan (31 December 2017)

Theft is 'Taking away with the intention of permanently depriving the owner &#8230;. etc'.  Were you to go for option B that would be 'Taking away without the owners consent' and there's a subtle difference.  As the owner appears to be unknown and should you report your actions to your local police (being certain to get a report number) then the aspect of taking care and control of the animal would almost certainly be accepted that there was no criminal intent.

If the yard concerned has now been abandoned,  then the owners,  even if they live abroad will,  in the eye of the Law,  be considered as the Keeper and responsible so contact with them would be a good idea too.

The very last people who I would contact would be the rspca.

Alec.


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## ycbm (31 December 2017)

blitznbobs said:



			A. Is fine b is theft...
		
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Not unless there is intent to permanently deprive, as Alec says. If the OP takes the horse but lets everyone locally know where it is and posts a note on the gate where she has taken it and her contact details, she will never be arrested for theft. 

Of course she shouldn't do this until she is sure that the mare has actually been abandoned.  I wouldn't go to the Police first though, as they will probably tell her not to do it, and then she would be more likely to be in trouble. But reporting when the mare is safe is probably a very good idea.

Girl Friday you have a very limited imagination if you think this can't have happened. No-one would ever evict a troublesome yard lessee and leave a yard unused? Really?


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## popsdosh (31 December 2017)

meleeka said:



			Go and see. You really don&#8217;t need the RSPCA at this stage and I would advise against it for now because it will just drag on. A very similar thing happened to me. WHW were very helpful in explaining what to do. We put an amandonment notice on the gate and waited 7 days, then took the pony to a rescue lady that we&#8217;d already arranged with. It was simple really and the poor pony didn&#8217;t go hungry because we fed him. The owner did surface after a couple of months and wanted her pony back but when the sanctury owner explained she owed two months livery plus vet, Farrier and dentist costs she went away again. This pony was 40 

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To use an abandonment notice you need to be the owner of the property or acting for them ,you cannot just go and claim a horse that you have nothing to do with. For all anybody knows the owner may have an agreement with the property owner that it can stay there under the circumstances.Even so that is then for them to sort out and they may have unwittingly become responsible for the horses welfare. Has anybody actually tried to contact the owner rather than just fire off about it being left.
S1 above why would the horse 'surely' be in a bad state ?  If it has plenty of grazing it should not be an issue at all . It is perfectly possible that somebody is checking the horse.

Slightly different scenario but we recently had an approach from trading standards because the cattle we kept in a neighbouring village were not being checked to the liking of all the cattle experts living next door. They just did not see us doing it and a few knocks on the door at 5.30am to put their minds at rest we had just checked them soon got the message across.


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## sunshine100* (31 December 2017)

Fools Motto said:



			Just heard that a horse has been 'forgotten' about and left alone at an abandoned livery yard (same yard I was on several years ago). The owners of the yard live abroad, (I have no further details of their whereabouts) and had let it to what was the YM when I was there. This YM was, shall we say 'different'. I left after a good 6 months, and rumour has it, she got asked to leave sometime earlier this year due to her behaviour.
Most of the livery owners had clearly found other yards, but the owner of this lone horse (I do know the horse from when I was there) had asked the YM to care for it. (I think they are also abroad), quite possibly this horse was left to the YM. YM has taken hers but left this one. Mare been on her own now for a good few weeks, since the horse transporter picked up her companion (owned by another person, and unaware of leaving just one behind.

I feel so tempted to A) go and check for myself, B) if this story is true (good authority it is, literally just been told by a good source) that I go and take the mare to ''my yard'' to care for her,  - but can I do this? As far as I know, I'm the only one who knows the mares name! 
I'm worried about the water supply... it can freeze/be turned off, or it's manual in which case she won't have any! Poor thing.
Really worried actually... Shocked too. Poor mare.
		
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you must go today-you will never forgive yourself if you do not check up on this horse!--update us after


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## Equi (31 December 2017)

Surely the first port of call would be to try and contact the yards owner and try to identify the horses owner? I assume you still know who the yard owner is and presumably they have the internet.
If the owner left the care of the Horse to the yard manager then there will have been money exchanged, so either the yard manager or the yard owner is still getting money for the care of this horse. If the owner just told ym to have it, then they are the ones who nees Contacted to ask whats happening. 

Just going to see the Horse will only tell you what condition the horse is in, you wont know if anyones looking after it so a few messages to the aforementioned people will clear it all up.


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## tristar (31 December 2017)

well done for caring, whatever path you decide on, so many animals have died from no one taking any action, even when lots of people are around, i know this to be a true fact that many just walk on by, have seen this many times, keep updating on progress please.

this time of year is critical for horses who need attention twice daily, every day, and ice removing from water at least twice a day

horses go downhill very quickly dec thru mar


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## teddypops (31 December 2017)

When I moved away from where I had lived for 10 years, I was absolutely slated for abandoning my horses. I didnt, I moved them too, but someone with 2 very similar horses had taken over my grazing so people had put 2 and 2 together and come up with whatever they wanted! No one contacted me to find out, so the point of this, is all may not be what it seems! But good on you for being concerned. Make some enquiries and take it from there.


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## Fools Motto (31 December 2017)

I've been, and using the public footpaths have seen a lot. The place is totally abandoned, the fencing is horribly dangerous, very broken, nails ect all over the place. Upside down bath tubs, old silage bales with shredded wrapping, even a gas canister in the field. There is a horse too. One horse, not the pony I was lead to believe it was, and it is a gelding, quite possibly pure TB, not the mare I was told. Good news is, he's wearing a good enough fitting rug, has a water supply, and has good grass. Loads of empty buckets, which I assume did have food in, now all filled with water are randomly dotted about. His headcollar and leadrope are going mouldy in the wet grass. His feet are in need of attention, and his tail dragging on the floor.
The footpath entrance  to the place has a water supply, currently detached from the tap and therefore sprouting gallons of water all over. (I will contact water people/council). 
Walked past a barn, (which we could have used as an indoor), now full of rubbish, old furniture, and many many fuel cans?!? The stables haven't been mucked out, but everything like grooming kit, mucking out stuff gone. (OK, I did veer off the footpath to look!)

So, I have a few contacts of people who might know more, and am trying to go down this route to locate the owner... see what come back.
Anything else anyone can suggest?


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## only_me (31 December 2017)

Leave a note somewhere and see if horse has been checked? A good method is to leave a card with a £10 in it. Check in a weeks time and see if the money has gone, then at least you know someone has been to the yard!

There were 3 horses abandoned at a yard near us. One was dead, with shoes and a rug on (very odd), another was v thin and there was a shetland also. The council took the thin one away as it was thin, removed the dead one but left the shetland as it looked fine...
So we ended up taking the shetland lol. Why would you leave one horse on it&#8217;s own??


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## Goldenstar (31 December 2017)

Go and look for yourself .
If you find a cared for horse on its own there&#8217;s no issue .
If you find a horse in trouble then I would be contacting the YOers and the horses owner .
If things are bad then you need to act in some way .
It&#8217;s a fact that most welfare issues are dealt with out any involvement of the welfare charity&#8217;s people like OP deal with it within the local horsy community .


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## PeterNatt (31 December 2017)

Please report this immediately and without delay to the Welfare Department of the British Horse Society:
BHS (British Horse Society) Tel: 0247 6840 517   24/7
WHW (World Horse Welfare) Tel: 0800 0480 180   8.00 a.m. &#8211; 5.30 p.m. Monday &#8211; Friday
RSPCA (Royal Society for the Protection of Cruelty to Animals) Tel: 0300 1234 999   24/7


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## ester (31 December 2017)

I don't understand why anyone would suggest reporting it immediately on the basis of heresay??

FM I would go and check it out, it is perfectly possible that the mare is there, but also possible she is being cared for adequately, I am sure you will be able to tell.


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## GirlFriday (31 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			Girl Friday you have a very limited imagination if you think this can't have happened. No-one would ever evict a troublesome yard lessee and leave a yard unused? Really?
		
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Actually if you read the post I specifically said it *could* happen - but I was also trying to caution about those with over-active imaginations...


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## JFTDWS (31 December 2017)

ester said:



			I don't understand why anyone would suggest reporting it immediately on the basis of heresay??

FM I would go and check it out, it is perfectly possible that the mare is there, but also possible she is being cared for adequately, I am sure you will be able to tell.
		
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I'd report it on the strength of FM's post of what she saw though...


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## ester (31 December 2017)

Ah missed that one, will be difficult if horse out, rugged, with grazing and water though no?


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## JFTDWS (31 December 2017)

ester said:



			Ah missed that one, will be difficult if horse out, rugged, with grazing and water though no?
		
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I thought you might have   It depends on how bad its feet are, what it looks like under its rug etc - but the welfare people can go and make a judgement with more legality than a member of the public trying to stick to PROWs anyway.  I'd rather report it than not.


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## GirlFriday (31 December 2017)

ester said:



			Ah missed that one, will be difficult if horse out, rugged, with grazing and water though no?
		
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^This. There are loads of horses kept alone and loads with lousy fencing (how many posters on here have horses in fields with barbed wire in at least some places?). It is hard to see what one would be reporting here really... a barn used as storage and messy stables are hardly a welfare issue when the horse isn't in them. Nor is a long tail or wet head collar (I've been on many yards where they are left at field entrances routinely in all weathers)...

Are there are any properties nearby where residents may have an idea if anyone is checking regularly? Are the feet bad enough to be an issue or just 'due'?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (31 December 2017)

JFTD said:



			I thought you might have   It depends on how bad its feet are, what it looks like under its rug etc - but the welfare people can go and make a judgement with more legality than a member of the public trying to stick to PROWs anyway.  I'd rather report it than not.
		
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Technically nobody from any agency can trespass,  only the police can enter.  Agency welfare can officially only go in with a policeman or vet to accompany (inc the rspca). However, most people don't know this. Its actually easier for a member of the public to get away with trespass.....

OP,  do you feel minded to look at the body score under the rug? If not good then call BHS welfare or whw who will sort out a visit.


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## GirlFriday (31 December 2017)

I *think* the fire service can also enter if there is an immediate danger of conflagration - I was told that when I had a leak through a ceiling cable from a property above if I recall correctly... But that doesn't help unless the fuel was stored highly improperly?


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## JFTDWS (31 December 2017)

The Xmas Furry said:



			Technically nobody from any agency can trespass,  only the police can enter.  Agency welfare can officially only go in with a policeman or vet to accompany (inc the rspca). However, most people don't know this. Its actually easier for a member of the public to get away with trespass.....
		
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Ah, I know that - I more meant that they can approach the owners regarding access and check the horse over - which is more legal than a member of the public trespassing and interfering with the animal (i.e. removing its rug to check it).  But it was a spectacularly poorly worded post / thought.


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## ester (31 December 2017)

I do think it could be problematically complicated with the land owners being out of the country, and think I would be minded to do a little local digging if I could as to who it belongs to, who is looking after it, is this a short term situation etc.


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## Suechoccy (31 December 2017)

Nothing to be lost by contacting World Horse Welfare. A rug can sometimes hide a very thin horse.


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## Fools Motto (31 December 2017)

I've had much support, it's amazing. We know the horse is in good condition, thats the plus. He's got grass and water. But, we now also know that he isn't being cared for. His companion was collected, and it was that owner who was checking on them both. Now gone to be cared for elsewhere, there isn't anybody coming for the horse. I think that's the concern at the moment.
We're getting closer to tracking them down.
The former YM has admitted she doesn't want to know.


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## Wagtail (31 December 2017)

It beggars belief that people could just abandon a horse. I couldn't take mine away and just leave its companion knowing no one was checking on him.


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## GirlFriday (31 December 2017)

I'm guessing this is a conversation that took place by sms or similar? Be worth printing...


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## GirlFriday (31 December 2017)

Wagtail said:



			It beggars belief that people could just abandon a horse. I couldn't take mine away and just leave its companion knowing no one was checking on him.
		
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To be fair these were liveries... it is horse owner, YM and YO who in theory need to sort this (although I suspect that OP is more likely to!)


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## Alec Swan (31 December 2017)

Fools Motto said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..We know the horse is in good condition, thats the plus. He's got grass and water. 
But, we now also know that he isn't being cared for. His companion was collected, and it was that owner who was checking on them both. Now gone to be cared for elsewhere, there isn't anybody coming for the horse. I think that's the concern at the moment.
We're getting closer to tracking them down.
The former YM has admitted she doesn't want to know.
		
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So the horse is in good condition,  he's standing on sufficient grass and he has access to water.  Do you have clear evidence that no one checks the horse?
Could you define how he isn't being 'cared for' when he seems to have what he needs?
The former YM is an irrelevance.
&#8230;. But you're _getting closer to tracking down the owner_ &#8230;&#8230;..  Hmm,  were I you and when you manage to track down the owner,  I'd approach them with an offer of help,  should they need it,  let's face it,  your primary concern is the welfare of the horse &#8230;. what I wouldn't do in your shoes is give any inkling that you are gathering evidence,  because if it sounds to me that you are,  so it may also to them.

Good luck!

Alec.


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## popsdosh (31 December 2017)

Suechoccy said:



			Nothing to be lost by contacting World Horse Welfare. A rug can sometimes hide a very thin horse.
		
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It can also hide an extremely fat one ! Not sure what the issue really is it sounds like there are many worse looked after horses than this one ,the horse community is so very full of tittle tattle and rumour and on this occasion appears to be wide of the mark horse care to some degree is subjective and ones person view of whats right is not to another. If the animal looks ok what the hell has it to do with others that may treat it differently but do just as much damage to its well being  ie overfeeding and rugging . Just because the place looks a mess is no way to judge if the animals care is ok as I have been to the smartest of yards that are immaculately kept full of starving horses believe me it happens.
The only thing the OP commented on was feet needing attention again a subjective possibility .
OP have you tried in any way to make contact with the yard owner as you seem to know them as that would be the first thing to do rather than send in the cavalry in this case I would also monitor things in say a weeks time. I hate this rush to the authorities if the horse is not in imminent danger ,they possibly have higher priority cases and it really is not fair on the horses owner to have a call from them. I once got reported for having a yearling with a couple of burrs in its mane LOL however neighbours see them turn up and straight away they are on your case ,think how you would feel if the roles were reversed. If you honestly think the horse is being poorly kept thats ok but make sure you are not reacting for the wrong reasons and that you really think there is good cause to.


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## sunshine100* (31 December 2017)

Fools Motto said:



			I've had much support, it's amazing. We know the horse is in good condition, thats the plus. He's got grass and water. But, we now also know that he isn't being cared for. His companion was collected, and it was that owner who was checking on them both. Now gone to be cared for elsewhere, there isn't anybody coming for the horse. I think that's the concern at the moment.
We're getting closer to tracking them down.
The former YM has admitted she doesn't want to know.
		
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Is the field anywhere near houses..thinking fireworks tonight could be very scared..


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## ester (31 December 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			. But you're _getting closer to tracking down the owner_ ..  Hmm,  were I you and when you manage to track down the owner,  I'd approach them with an offer of help,  should they need it,
		
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Knowing FM I'd have no doubt that this would be her intention, that she will only be interested in the welfare of the horse . 

Well done FM, I think it is good to be pro-active to prevent a situation occurring and I've no doubt you will get to the bottom of it and resolve it, whatever the reasons for the owner leaving the horse there.


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## Luci07 (1 January 2018)

A horse in winter can drop weight incredibly quickly, as in a matter of days. If the horse is a TB then he won't be doing well just on grass at this time of year. I think FM should be thanked for taking the time to get on the bottom of this.


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## Goldenstar (1 January 2018)

The horses owner needs a smack .
How dare they own a horse and just abandon it to get on with it.
The YOer needs to step up too they have a duty of care in law .
The YMer is no longer anything to do with this .
Well done OP keep trying to get to the Owner and get the useless creature to do their duty .


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## brighteyes (1 January 2018)

I'm a bit :eek3: about the people rapping FM for her monitoring of this situation. I'd be doing exactly the same thing.


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

brighteyes said:



			I'm a bit :eek3: about the people rapping FM for her monitoring of this situation. I'd be doing exactly the same thing.
		
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Nobody is 'Rapping' FM for it you just need a sense of perspective and not get carried away . Even by FMs account the horse is OK!


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## ester (1 January 2018)

Luci07 said:



			A horse in winter can drop weight incredibly quickly, as in a matter of days. If the horse is a TB then he won't be doing well just on grass at this time of year. I think FM should be thanked for taking the time to get on the bottom of this.
		
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FWIW I think thats a bit of a generalisation, plenty of TBs do fine in just grass at this time of year??


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

ester said:



			FWIW I think that&#8217;s a bit of a generalisation, plenty of TBs do fine in just grass at this time of year??
		
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Didnt like to say got 15 mainly TB turned out to grass not had any form of supplementation yet(even with snow)  ,no rugs, Even with 6 ins of snow their as happy as Larry! Guess i had better duck behind the wall now. If I could be bothered I would put picks up.


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## Luci07 (1 January 2018)

ester said:



			FWIW I think that&#8217;s a bit of a generalisation, plenty of TBs do fine in just grass at this time of year??
		
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I would suspect yours probably started with a little extra weight? And are checked very regularly?  None of the TB's I have ever owned or known would have made it through on just grass in winter. Summer was a different matter so you are lucky! I have seen firsthand though just how fast a horse can drop weight so am wary.


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## TheMule (1 January 2018)

Luci07 said:



			I would suspect yours probably started with a little extra weight? And are checked very regularly?  None of the TB's I have ever owned or known would have made it through on just grass in winter. Summer was a different matter so you are lucky! I have seen firsthand though just how fast a horse can drop weight so am wary.
		
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I winter out several TBs on just grass, if you've got decent land that's well managed it's perfectly do-able


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## Cecile (1 January 2018)

I think the OP is dealing with this very well herself and if she feels its necessary to call in the Cavalry she will do this if she feels the need to.  

You cannot believe how many times people try to get me to help animals or phone the authorities when it just isn't necessary and it can be like taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut in some situations, if an animal is in need of help I would be first one there but sometimes things are not what they seem.  I usually get the people during holiday times when they venture out onto footpaths and see animals and some of the things I have gone to see on behalf of others *reporting* it to me was completely stupid <I will still continue going as someone may get it right and an animal may need help>

One woman was so persistent I ended up phoning my vet whilst on my way there and he was ready to come out and phone the authorities, once I arrived it was absolutely nothing to worry about and this woman is well known for her over reaction to every animal in the area (I didn't know that at the time but every time she arrives now I wonder how long my day will be taken up with Male entire goats that smell, a shetland hiding in the bushes because of rain, a dog attacking sheep but sheep clearly chewing the cud on arrival and no sign of a dog, a horse with a terrible skin condition and going bald <loosing its winter coat>one of the authorities were called for that one)

Good Luck OP you sound level headed and able to sort this out very well, I hope everything is resolved swiftly and there is a happy outcome


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## ester (1 January 2018)

Luci07 said:



			I would suspect yours probably started with a little extra weight? And are checked very regularly?  None of the TB's I have ever owned or known would have made it through on just grass in winter. Summer was a different matter so you are lucky! I have seen firsthand though just how fast a horse can drop weight so am wary.
		
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I dont own a TB just said plenty do fine as confirmed by the other responses.


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## JillA (1 January 2018)

Goldenstar said:



			The YOer needs to step up too they have a duty of care in law .
		
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Source? We have discussed this before, in law the person who has the duty of care is the person "in control" of the animal. It is a bit of a stretch to say that is the YO, especially an absent one. I would have said the YM if the horse was left in her care.


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

Luci07 said:



			I would suspect yours probably started with a little extra weight? And are checked very regularly?  None of the TB's I have ever owned or known would have made it through on just grass in winter. Summer was a different matter so you are lucky! I have seen firsthand though just how fast a horse can drop weight so am wary.
		
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Best way of making sure a horse isnt losing weight is to not put a rug on it. Its a natural process for horses to lose weight in winter its always been so. There is much research that is suggesting that stopping this happening in the normal way ,by overfeeding and rugging is causing many issues in the horse population to become more prevalent one being and not least Laminitis.However I guess thats a totally different welfare issue to the  perceived cruelty of a rumour that a horse may not be being looked at although this has not yet been proved and the horse is in good condition.


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## JillA (1 January 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Best way of making sure a horse isnt losing weight is to not put a rug on it. Its a natural process for horses to lose weight in winter its always been so. There is much research that is suggesting that stopping this happening in the normal way ,by overfeeding and rugging is causing many issues in the horse population to become more prevalent one being and not least Laminitis.However I guess thats a totally different welfare issue to the  perceived cruelty of a rumour that a horse may not be being looked at although this has not yet been proved and the horse is in good condition.
		
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But I recall some long since research that revealed that rugging could save 10% of feed by reducing calories lost in keeping body heat up. My poor doer wouldn't survive without rugging, feed or no feed - it really is dangerous to generalise. TBs were bred from arabs and natives, arabs didn't evolve to live in cooler climates


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

JillA said:



			Source? We have discussed this before, in law the person who has the duty of care is the person "in control" of the animal. It is a bit of a stretch to say that is the YO, especially an absent one. I would have said the YM if the horse was left in her care.
		
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Yes we have been here before . However it has very clearly been established that in the abscence of any other person in active control the landowner whos land they are on assumes that responsibility as far as the authorities are concerned. All the time they are on your property they are your responsibility its very clear in case law. For example if an animal needed vet treatment and you ignored it you would be prosecuted.


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## JillA (1 January 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Yes we have been here before . However it has very clearly been established that in the abscence of any other person in active control the landowner whos land they are on assumes that responsibility as far as the authorities are concerned. All the time they are on your property they are your responsibility its very clear in case law. For example if an animal needed vet treatment and you ignored it you would be prosecuted.
		
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I repeat, what is your source?


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## JillA (1 January 2018)

Sorry, system entered it twice


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

JillA said:



			But I recall some long since research that revealed that rugging could save 10% of feed by reducing calories lost in keeping body heat up. My poor doer wouldn't survive without rugging, feed or no feed - it really is dangerous to generalise. TBs were bred from arabs and natives, arabs didn't evolve to live in cooler climates
		
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However recent research carried out at Edinburgh suggest that if this weight loss is not allowed for they are more prone to particularly Laminitis and other metabolic issues and endocrine system problems .I dont think you would question that these issues are not more prevelant.As with all things there is nothing like the knowledgeable eye however there are many horse keepers nowadays who with out trying to sound rude do not posses this ability and just follow the herd. Can I suggest you go out into some of the deserts where these Arabs evolved at night you may change your view on climate.


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

JillA said:



			Sorry, system entered it twice
		
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I could ask the same? We have been sent legal opinion from the NFU warning of this happening. 
I believe a farmer was prosecuted and convicted within the last two year for a horse belonging to a livery that was on his farm and he never called a vet when it had colic. The owner wasnt prosecuted because they were not present but the farmer was. As you may be aware if the farmer had called a vet he would then been responsible for the bill its the exact same reason the police are always very reluctant to call a vet themselves with an RTC involving animals.


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

Two very interesting articles that may help explain further and to my mind should be included in the packaging for all rugs

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/warning-well-meaning-owners-make-horses-lives-misery-638892
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/rugging-man-made-welfare-problem-says-vets-632863


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## JillA (1 January 2018)

popsdosh said:



			I could ask the same?
		
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From AWA 2006, S3 
"3 Responsibility for animals
(1) In this Act, references to a person responsible for an animal are to a person
responsible for an animal whether on a permanent or temporary basis.
(2) In this Act, references to being responsible for an animal include being in
charge of it.
(3) For the purposes of this Act, a person who owns an animal shall always be
regarded as being a person who is responsible for it.
(4) For the purposes of this Act, a person shall be treated as responsible for any
animal for which a person under the age of 16 years of whom he has actual care
and control is responsible."

Other than that it would be case law which elaborates on that definition, I am just asking for that case law. It is a bit of a stretch for the court to say a land owner is responsible for that animal unless there is absolutely no-one else who could be held responsible. Even then, an absentee owner would be stretching it - as with all things, the court takes all factors into account and the risk as NFU would see it would be in an extreme situation of abandonment and a landlord in full possession of all the facts. Case law can be very specific as to the circumstances


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

JillA said:



			From AWA 2006, S3 
"3 Responsibility for animals
(1) In this Act, references to a person responsible for an animal are to a person
responsible for an animal whether on a permanent or temporary basis.
(2) In this Act, references to being responsible for an animal include being in
charge of it.
(3) For the purposes of this Act, a person who owns an animal shall always be
regarded as being a person who is responsible for it.
(4) For the purposes of this Act, a person shall be treated as responsible for any
animal for which a person under the age of 16 years of whom he has actual care
and control is responsible."

Other than that it would be case law which elaborates on that definition, I am just asking for that case law. It is a bit of a stretch for the court to say a land owner is responsible for that animal unless there is absolutely no-one else who could be held responsible. Even then, an absentee owner would be stretching it - as with all things, the court takes all factors into account and the risk as NFU would see it would be in an extreme situation of abandonment and a landlord in full possession of all the facts. Case law can be very specific as to the circumstances
		
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This taken from a BHS document to explain land owners responsibilities mainly attached to the abandonment legislation

The horse(s) is injured. Who is liable for this?

You are responsible for any injury caused to the horse(s) whilst it is on your land. You are also responsible for providing adequate and appropriate food and water, shelter and veterinary care under sections 4 and 9 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006. However, you cannot be held liable for any injury or neglect caused to the horse(s) before it came to be on your land. It is advisable to call a vet when the horse first appears on your land so that the condition of the horse may be checked and recorded.


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## JillA (1 January 2018)

What is the wider context of that statement???
Have you read Ss4 and 9 AWA 2006? Because they are only relevant insofar as the environment provided for the keeping of horses is concerned. Of course you are liable if there are hazards or the land is unsuitable for the welfare of horses kept on it, but that is not the same as being responsible for their welfare is all respects. 
And even then it could be argued that it is up to the owner/person responsible to check this for themselves - as in former legislation. The land owner was responsible if they let the land on a headage basis, if one owner took a tenancy it was his responsibility to check for and remove hazards.
It ALWAYS pays to check sources in this day and age of information and misinformation, even from the BHS, and to take it in the context in which is was stated


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## Fools Motto (1 January 2018)

The owner has been contacted. (not by me) She was under the impression the horse was being cared for but did know he was going to be on his own. She is thinking about re-homing him, in which case there are already several people who are very  happy to take him. We just have to wait for her to decide. 
That's the best we can do at the moment I think.
The rest of the place has been totally left, looks like something out of a disaster horror film! YM was in charge of it all. Clearly she has just 'gone'. (it's always had a ghostly feel about it, a place you don't want to be on your own!) Several people are trying to get in contact with the owner from over seas. I believe he hasn't been in this country for some considerable time.
Just to point out, there is no feed, no hay, no grooming kit, no medical stuff, nothing you would assume you would need to care for a horse. Not saying that owner can have her stuff in her car, but it really does look like the horse has been left with the estate.


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

JillA said:



			What is the wider context of that statement???
Have you read Ss4 and 9 AWA 2006? Because they are only relevant insofar as the environment provided for the keeping of horses is concerned. Of course you are liable if there are hazards or the land is unsuitable for the welfare of horses kept on it, but that is not the same as being responsible for their welfare is all respects. 
And even then it could be argued that it is up to the owner/person responsible to check this for themselves - as in former legislation. The land owner was responsible if they let the land on a headage basis, if one owner took a tenancy it was his responsibility to check for and remove hazards.
It ALWAYS pays to check sources in this day and age of information and misinformation, even from the BHS, and to take it in the context in which is was stated
		
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So what do the words providing adequate food water and veterinary care suggest to you ! certainly not just physical injury to me. Good luck testing it in court ! we are covering ourselves if it ever happens not taking the risk.
What you dont seem to comprehend is under sec 4-9 the landowner becomes as responsible as the owner in their abscence. that is covered by different laws outside the AWA.


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			The owner has been contacted. (not by me) She was under the impression the horse was being cared for but did know he was going to be on his own. She is thinking about re-homing him, in which case there are already several people who are very  happy to take him. We just have to wait for her to decide. 
That's the best we can do at the moment I think.
The rest of the place has been totally left, looks like something out of a disaster horror film! YM was in charge of it all. Clearly she has just 'gone'. (it's always had a ghostly feel about it, a place you don't want to be on your own!) Several people are trying to get in contact with the owner from over seas. I believe he hasn't been in this country for some considerable time.
Just to point out, there is no feed, no hay, no grooming kit, no medical stuff, nothing you would assume you would need to care for a horse. Not saying that owner can have her stuff in her car, but it really does look like the horse has been left with the estate.
		
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Luckily it is OK and I dont think you did wrong in checking ,these things can soon get blown out of all proportion with out knowing all the facts particularly on forums where not everybody read the original post.
Well done!!!


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## ester (1 January 2018)

Hopefully the owner will make their mind up soon  well done for checking it out, the owner thinking it was being checked and it not is quite a big issue!


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## JillA (1 January 2018)

popsdosh said:



			So what do the words providing adequate food water and veterinary care suggest to you ! certainly not just physical injury to me. Good luck testing it in court ! we are covering ourselves if it ever happens not taking the risk.
What you dont seem to comprehend is under sec 4-9 the landowner becomes as responsible as the owner in their abscence. that is covered by different laws outside the AWA.
		
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You are trying to make the facts fit your argument. Where in any of those sections does it put responsibility on the land owner? It refers to "the person responsible" which has been defined above. It does not say the owner of the land/property, whatever. I am leaving this thread now - it's impossible to reason with people who have a fixed point of view regardless of the facts


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## Cecile (1 January 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			The owner has been contacted. (not by me) She was under the impression the horse was being cared for but did know he was going to be on his own. She is thinking about re-homing him, in which case there are already several people who are very  happy to take him. We just have to wait for her to decide. 
That's the best we can do at the moment I think.
The rest of the place has been totally left, looks like something out of a disaster horror film! YM was in charge of it all. Clearly she has just 'gone'. (it's always had a ghostly feel about it, a place you don't want to be on your own!) Several people are trying to get in contact with the owner from over seas. I believe he hasn't been in this country for some considerable time.
Just to point out, there is no feed, no hay, no grooming kit, no medical stuff, nothing you would assume you would need to care for a horse. Not saying that owner can have her stuff in her car, but it really does look like the horse has been left with the estate.
		
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Well done to you and anyone else who got off their backside to help, such a relief....... I hope 2018 turns out to be an excellent year for this horse and he has plenty of TLC


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## Fools Motto (1 January 2018)

Sadly the horse is somewhat distressed galloping about, seemingly looking for company. One of the people on board this with me went to check him.
Got photo's of his surroundings. Found a septic tank pit, the ground is giving way around it, and he has access to it - among other 'dangers'...
Really hope the owner makes up her mind the horse can move house!


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## chaps89 (1 January 2018)

If the owner is now contactable and aware their horse is not being looked after as they thought, would they be amenable to either the horse moving house temporarily whilst permanent solution is sought (either livery or rehome) or at the least, someone going in and fencing off the septic tank area etc (if you're willing to do so of course!)? Is it wrong I want to see what this ghostly yard looks like?! Given there seems to be no shortage of people looking for yards to rent it seems strange for it to be empty! Well done for checking it out OK, I hope it all comes right for the poor horse soon!


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## Fools Motto (1 January 2018)

How does one do photos on here now anyway... 
I can show a few, but don't think I can be seen to advertise?


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

JillA said:



			You are trying to make the facts fit your argument. Where in any of those sections does it put responsibility on the land owner? It refers to "the person responsible" which has been defined above. It does not say the owner of the land/property, whatever. I am leaving this thread now - it's impossible to reason with people who have a fixed point of view regardless of the facts
		
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LOL pot-kettle
I made it very clear to you all along it was from a BHS document setting out the LAND OWNERS responsibilities .
None so blind as those who dont wish to see you just cant see it spans two seperate forms of legislation. One not under the AWA which you seem to be banging on about that clearly makes the landowner on whose property the animal is on responsible for its welfare in the absence of anybody else. You have been so certain all along that it was not the case ,I hope now you may realise it is,or be my guest test it.


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

JillA said:



			You are trying to make the facts fit your argument. Where in any of those sections does it put responsibility on the land owner? It refers to "the person responsible" which has been defined above. It does not say the owner of the land/property, whatever. I am leaving this thread now - it's impossible to reason with people who have a fixed point of view regardless of the facts
		
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Just to add from a q&A by a senior trading standards expert!!

3. Landowners



Q. a)    What can a landowner do if someone puts a horse on his land without his knowledge, and who is responsible for the horses welfare.


A. a)    The landowner takes on the responsibility when he becomes aware that the horse is on his land and is responsible for its welfare.  If no owner can be found a 14 day removal notice must be displayed before action any further can be taken.  See note Livery Yards question a).


Q. b)   If you give someone permission to put their horse on your land who is responsible for its welfare.


A. b)    The owner is primary responsible but be aware that the landowner could become responsible if the horse welfare is compromised.


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## Luci07 (1 January 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Best way of making sure a horse isnt losing weight is to not put a rug on it. Its a natural process for horses to lose weight in winter its always been so. There is much research that is suggesting that stopping this happening in the normal way ,by overfeeding and rugging is causing many issues in the horse population to become more prevalent one being and not least Laminitis.However I guess thats a totally different welfare issue to the  perceived cruelty of a rumour that a horse may not be being looked at although this has not yet been proved and the horse is in good condition.
		
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That's very interesting - thank you. I had a really poor doer for my first TB and he was scrutinised daily and weighed to ensure he made it through looking ok. Never had one since that was so hard to keep well. But if you wanted to keep your horse working and clipped through the winter then that would make a difference. I have never known how my horses will fare till we have done a winter. Hottest horse was a WB who needed light rugs and no extra food. Biggest wimp was my retired TB X cob who flatly refused to throw a coat when I tried to have her living out (unrugged). Had to move her to a friends yard where she would have a stable. They had the choice and mine was the only one who put herself, in her box, each night. Thank you for sharing your experiences.


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## Darbs (2 January 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			How does one do photos on here now anyway...
		
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Set up an account on Flickr. https://www.flickr.com/ 

Upload the photos you want into your Flickr photostream, then select the photo from the photostream that you want to post on here. 

When it is shown on the screen there is a little curved arrow in the bottom right hand corner to 'share it'. Click on that and there are some options that appear. One of them is BBCode, click on that, select the text that appears then copy and paste the text it into your forum post.

It sounds tortuous but its simple once you have done it a couple of times.


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## Alec Swan (2 January 2018)

JillA said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. . I am leaving this thread now - it's impossible to reason with people who have a fixed point of view regardless of the facts
		
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I'm really sorry JillA but popsdosh is entirely correct.  By default,  Landowners acquire the mantle of responsibility even if the animals (read Domesticated) on their land,  are put there,  roam there or otherwise appear and without their knowledge or consent.  

Locally,  cattle were found to be wandering on the highway,  a convenient gate was opened on to a meadow,  the cattle were shut within,  the guy who owned the meadow went ape,  he advised the Police that he'd open the gate and put them back on the public highway and he was roundly told that if he did,  he'd be open to prosecution,  as even though the animals had been placed there without either his consent or his knowledge,  he had by default and unwittingly assumed the mantle of their 'keeper' &#8212; fact.

Alec.


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## JillA (2 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			I'm really sorry JillA but popsdosh is entirely correct.  By default,  Landowners acquire the mantle of responsibility even if the animals (read Domesticated) on their land,  are put there,  roam there or otherwise appear and without their knowledge or consent.
		
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I did say I would bow out but..................I have never said it isn't true, but no-one, not even you Alec, has been able to point to the legislation that makes this mandatory. And until you can, I will dispute that this is always the case. 
So...........over to you - not hearsay, not ******* says, not the police said, whatever but chapter and verse of the relevant statute.

TBH if it IS enshrined in legislation I'm surprised anyone elver takes tetants' animals onto their land, much less takes in liveries


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## cobgoblin (2 January 2018)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/22

Chapter 7  (6)

(6)A person detaining any livestock in pursuance of this section is liable for any damage caused to it by a failure to treat it with reasonable care and supply it with adequate food and water while it is so detained.


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## moosea (2 January 2018)

From the Animals act 1971. 




Detention and sale of trespassing livestock
7 Detention and sale of trespassing livestock.

(1)The right to seize and detain any animal by way of distress damage feasant is hereby abolished.

(2)Where any livestock strays on to any land and is not then under the control of any person the occupier of the land may detain it, subject to subsection (3) of this section, unless ordered to return it by a court.

(3)Where any livestock is detained in pursuance of this section the right to detain it ceases

(a)at the end of a period of forty-eight hours, unless within that period notice of the detention has been given to the officer in charge of a police station and also, if the person detaining the livestock knows to whom it belongs, to that person; or

(b)when such amount is tendered to the person detaining the livestock as is sufficient to satisfy any claim he may have under section 4 of this Act in respect of the livestock; or

(c)if he has no such claim, when the livestock is claimed by a person entitled to its possession.

(4)Where livestock has been detained in pursuance of this section for a period of not less than fourteen days the person detaining it may sell it at a market or by public auction, unless proceedings are then pending for the return of the livestock or for any claim under section 4 of this Act in respect of it.

(5)Where any livestock is sold in the exercise of the right conferred by this section and the proceeds of the sale, less the costs thereof and any costs incurred in connection with it, exceed the amount of any claim under section 4 of this Act which the vendor had in respect of the livestock, the excess shall be recoverable from him by the person who would be entitled to the possession of the livestock but for the sale.

************(6)A person detaining any livestock in pursuance of this section is liable for any damage caused to it by a failure to treat it with reasonable care and supply it with adequate food and water while it is so detained.**************

(7)References in this section to a claim under section 4 of this Act in respect of any livestock do not include any claim under that section for damage done by or expenses incurred in respect of the livestock before the straying in connection with which it is detained under this section.


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## JillA (2 January 2018)

Only if the land owner detains it as having  trespassed on his land?


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## Alec Swan (2 January 2018)

JillA said:



			..................I have never said it isn't true, but no-one, not even you Alec, has been able to point to the legislation that makes this mandatory. And until you can, ..
		
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cobgoblin said:



https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/22

..
		
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Thanks to the timely intervention of cobgoblin and for which I'm grateful section 4 sub 2 states clearly;  .. *(2)For the purposes of this section any livestock belongs to the person in whose possession it is.* . to mean that the 'keeper' of livestock is deemed to have the same duty of care as has the owner,  should they be un-known or not present.  

Excepting that the Landowner be living is say,  Australia,  are you still unconvinced of the duties and responsibilities attached to land ownership and uninvited livestock?  It's the best that I can do,  to date! 

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (2 January 2018)

JillA said:



			Only if the land owner detains it as having  trespassed on his land?
		
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Obviously.  If the Landowner 'detains' any livestock then they have exactly the same duty of care as they would if the animals simply arrived uninvited.  Your questions though haven't focussed on the voluntary detention of livestock so the question of 'detaining' is all a bit of an irrelevance,  isn't it?! 

Alec.


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## Sussexbythesea (2 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			Thanks to the timely intervention of cobgoblin and for which I'm grateful section 4 sub 2 states clearly;  .. *(2)For the purposes of this section any livestock belongs to the person in whose possession it is.* . to mean that the 'keeper' of livestock is deemed to have the same duty of care as has the owner,  should they be un-known or not present.  

Excepting that the Landowner be living is say,  Australia,  are you still unconvinced of the duties and responsibilities attached to land ownership and uninvited livestock?  It's the best that I can do,  to date! 

Alec.
		
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Unless there is strict liability then you would have to prove the landowner knew about the horse, knew that it wasnt cared for and then did nothing about it. I dont think possession is correct either. The landowner does not possess or keep a horse that has been abandoned. 

You can quote as much legislation as you want but youll not understand what it actually means or how it would be interpreted in the eyes of the law until a case is tried and even then it will be down to individual circumstances. There is no benefit to society to prosecute someone who had no idea that the animal was there or if they did could not know it wasnt being looked after.


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## moosea (2 January 2018)

You can quote as much legislation as you want but you&#8217;ll not understand what it actually means or how it would be interpreted in the eyes of the law until a case is tried and even then it will be down to individual circumstances. There is no benefit to society to prosecute someone who had no idea that the animal was there or if they did could not know it wasn&#8217;t being looked after.
		
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Yes the case law was provided earlier in this thread -a farmer was charged for failling to get vet to horse on his property.


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## Sussexbythesea (2 January 2018)

moosea said:



			Yes the case law was provided earlier in this thread -a farmer was charged for failling to get vet to horse on his property.
		
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Could you point me to it - Ive scanned through a couple of times and cant see it - thanks  is there a link to the case?


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## ester (2 January 2018)

popsdosh said:



			I could ask the same? We have been sent legal opinion from the NFU warning of this happening. 
I believe a farmer was prosecuted and convicted within the last two year for a horse belonging to a livery that was on his farm and he never called a vet when it had colic. The owner wasnt prosecuted because they were not present but the farmer was. As you may be aware if the farmer had called a vet he would then been responsible for the bill its the exact same reason the police are always very reluctant to call a vet themselves with an RTC involving animals.
		
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It was this case, which I think I do remember, it was a bay horse I think and if it is the same one Im thinking did they not find a load of dogs too?


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## Sussexbythesea (2 January 2018)

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...ut_down_horse_with_worms_and_lice_in_abdomen/

Found it. He knew the horse was sick. He was totally aware. 

Sounds like a charming individual!

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...acup_farmer_faces_jail_for_pistol_possession/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...including-22-PUPPIES-appalling-condition.html


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## honetpot (2 January 2018)

I had a livery who wasn't looking after her animals, I tried speaking to her, she then says I am being aggressive, harassing her and would contact the police.
I then contacted WHW, RSPCA,BHS, who were not really a lot of help. The people who were the most help did bailiff work and gave me all the information on how to evict her. It cost me £400 and a lot of sleepless nights. 
  If you are the landowner and they will not care for their animals in practice, unless you want to spend a lot of money in legal fees with the risk of ending up in court the easiest thing is to move the problem on. 
   There are more people than you think that checking horses and just making sure they are well  and have water on a daily basis is optional. These are the same people who buy smart rugs, grooming kits and appear to know better. I get fed up of people giving travellers stick about their horse care when there are probably more people who live in houses who could not care less about their animals when it inconvenient to them, but make all the right noises.


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## ester (2 January 2018)

SussexbytheChristmasTree said:



http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...ut_down_horse_with_worms_and_lice_in_abdomen/

Found it. He knew the horse was sick. He was totally aware. 

Sounds like a charming individual!

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...acup_farmer_faces_jail_for_pistol_possession/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...including-22-PUPPIES-appalling-condition.html

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yup thats the one I remembered


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## Fools Motto (2 January 2018)

Adding a tangent here... can bailiffs claim this horse?


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## honetpot (2 January 2018)

You use the bailiff to carry out a legal process. They are paid by whoever has the judgement.


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## ycbm (2 January 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			Adding a tangent here... can bailiffs claim this horse?
		
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Only if the person who owns it has a CCJ against them that they won't pay, I'm pretty sure.


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## Alec Swan (2 January 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			Adding a tangent here... can bailiffs claim this horse?
		
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ycbm said:



			Only if the person who owns it has a CCJ against them that they won't pay, I'm pretty sure.
		
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^^^^ Correct,  again!  Bailiffs,  though they may dispense off the cuff advice,  are no more than servants of the Court.

Alec.


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## popsdosh (2 January 2018)

ycbm said:



			Only if the person who owns it has a CCJ against them that they won't pay, I'm pretty sure.
		
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The landowner can if the horse is actually abandoned but only the land owner! You certainly do not need to use bailiffs and there are plenty of example notices out there under the 2015 act it is very straight forward but a little more tricky if you actually know who the horse belongs to. under the 2015 act once you have detained the horse it becomes yours to do with as you will after 96hrs the only as long as the police were made aware . Even if claimed within the 96hrs the owner is responsible for keep cost that have to be paid before you release the horse ,legally they also have to prove to you that they own it. 
We used it 3 times when it first came into use but now dont get the problem anymore as they know unless they act quick they lose their horses. Some will use bailiffs as they are worried of the consequences with who they are dealing however to be honest we have never had any issues as long as you stick to what legally your allowed too. The other great part of the new law is you do not need to leave them where they are you can move them anywhere that is safe for them.


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## popsdosh (2 January 2018)

honetpot said:



			I had a livery who wasn't looking after her animals, I tried speaking to her, she then says I am being aggressive, harassing her and would contact the police.
I then contacted WHW, RSPCA,BHS, who were not really a lot of help. The people who were the most help did bailiff work and gave me all the information on how to evict her. It cost me £400 and a lot of sleepless nights. 
  If you are the landowner and they will not care for their animals in practice, unless you want to spend a lot of money in legal fees with the risk of ending up in court the easiest thing is to move the problem on. 
   There are more people than you think that checking horses and just making sure they are well  and have water on a daily basis is optional. These are the same people who buy smart rugs, grooming kits and appear to know better. I get fed up of people giving travellers stick about their horse care when there are probably more people who live in houses who could not care less about their animals when it inconvenient to them, but make all the right noises.
		
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I agree with you totally re travellers horses ! we try to help where we can and they actually appreciate us trying to explain different ways and we have managed to get one family not to breed their mares for the last two years. They gave us several colts in exchange which was better for them than their normal outcome as they are merely a bi-product of producing more mares ,they make cracking ridden ponies and are so easy to do. They are showing a real interest in how they are coming along.


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## Fools Motto (4 January 2018)

Update... The horse has been handed over to someone who will give him a lovely home. I'm so pleased! Great result.


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## Fiona (4 January 2018)

Great news &#128513;&#128513;&#128562;

Fiona


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## Rowreach (4 January 2018)

That's great news, well done


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## sunshine100* (4 January 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			Update... The horse has been handed over to someone who will give him a lovely home. I'm so pleased! Great result.
		
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THANK-YOU! you should take all the credit-sharing it on here..that horse will not forget you x


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## Annagain (4 January 2018)

Well done FM.


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## Alec Swan (4 January 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			Update... The horse has been handed over to someone who will give him a lovely home. I'm so pleased! Great result.
		
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That's excellent news,  you achieved what you set out to do,  and with a minimum of fuss &#8212; except for on here,  that is!  

Well done.

Alec.


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## Lintel (4 January 2018)

Glad to hear all that gone well  
Well done OP!


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## meleeka (4 January 2018)

Excellent news


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## Reacher (4 January 2018)

So pleased


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## Andalucian (4 January 2018)

Good work FM, be proud of yourself.


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## LadySam (4 January 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			Update... The horse has been handed over to someone who will give him a lovely home. I'm so pleased! Great result.
		
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Excellent work, FM.  Good on you.


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## ozpoz (4 January 2018)

Well done OP - you have made a huge difference to the welfare of that horse.


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## turkana (5 January 2018)

popsdosh said:



			However recent research carried out at Edinburgh suggest that if this weight loss is not allowed for they are more prone to particularly Laminitis and other metabolic issues and endocrine system problems .I dont think you would question that these issues are not more prevelant.As with all things there is nothing like the knowledgeable eye however there are many horse keepers nowadays who with out trying to sound rude do not posses this ability and just follow the herd. Can I suggest you go out into some of the deserts where these Arabs evolved at night you may change your view on climate.
		
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Having slept under the stars in the sahara desert & I can confirm that it is really really cold at night, arabs must be tough to survive the very hot days & freezing nights


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## Fools Motto (6 January 2018)

I'm still so pleased!! His new owner says the horse has been a very good boy. Settling in very well, and even did a little hack, ears forward, keen and loving it!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (6 January 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			I'm still so pleased!! His new owner says the horse has been a very good boy. Settling in very well, and even did a little hack, ears forward, keen and loving it!
		
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Fab update x


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## Pearlsasinger (6 January 2018)

That is good news!


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## Amymay (6 January 2018)

Great outcome xxx


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## Wagtail (6 January 2018)

Brilliant news. So pleased he is out of that situation. Well done, OP.


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