# moving up from prelim to novice level dressage



## spike123 (15 July 2015)

When do you know it's the right time to make the move from prelim to novice dressage? I am going out regularly competing and scoring an average of between 65 and 68% and placing everytime out at prelim level. However we've only been at prelim barring one test last year since May. I'm going out roughly every 2 weeks competing on average. My instructor feels we should be contemplating it now and others who know me and my horse feel we are both more than capable of it. However our medium trot needs a fair bit of work and I haven't even started to teach him counter canter yet both of which are required at novice level. I do plan to start schooling the medium trot and hopefully teaching the counter canter as well but would you suggest we stay at prelim level for another couple of months or once the counter canter is established have a go at novice asap.


----------



## Kikke (15 July 2015)

I prefer to school a level above what I am competing. So if you want to compete novice I would say you have to be able to school at Elementary at home. Therefore medium work and counter canter should be well established.
Having said that there is no harm in trying. If you are doing BD perhaps trying a few unaffilaited dressage competitions at the level first.


----------



## eggs (15 July 2015)

I agree with your instructor on moving on up to novice.  You only have to show a few medium trot strides and for the majority of the tests you canter across the diagonal and counter canter on the long side to the next marker.  Even if you don't do it all perfectly there will be bits that are good.

I enjoy the novice tests more than the preliminary as they give the horse more to do


----------



## spike123 (15 July 2015)

currently we are only unaffiliated although the plan is to hopefully affiliate early next year. Our medium canter is much better than our medium trot although I haven't done alot of schooling with either yet. If it's a case of cantering across the diagonal and then cantering to the next marker I suspect he maybe ok with that but will definitely have a go in the school. I'm thinking he will do better at the novice tests as he likes to be busy as well. Prelim 7 appears to be our bug bear as that's alot of trotting and cantering around the edge giving him more excuses to be naughty.


----------



## kassieg (15 July 2015)

I did my first novice at the weekend (got 5th out of 15 over the moon !  ) our lateral work is fantastic, counter canter, rein back etc. Mediums are really becoming established at home but when we went out I knew they wouldn't be as strong. Got 5's which for what she produced I was happy with as they weren't as good as they can be, I would hope for 6's & 7's next time. 

I think if you can be confident that all your work is at a decent level then go for it ! You can't do it expecting perfection first time, novice's are so much quicker paced but this is an advantage for my mare who needs to be busy.


----------



## spike123 (15 July 2015)

well done that sounds like a great result for a first attempt. I'm going to have a go at a few of the movements and maybe run through a test or 2 at home and see how it rides and take it from there.


----------



## mrsh2010 (16 July 2015)

I was in your same shoes - however here was my attitude:

The mediums are generally 2 to 4 moves in the test, they say "show some" strides - if you don't get them, you don't get them, but the whole idea is to learn and improve.

You've got to give it a go at some point, or you'll never know.

I've had tests where I've cantered my medium trots, galloped uncontrollably in the medium canter, but both me and my horse have enjoyed ourselves - afterall that's what we have them for right?

Give it ago! It's hardly any different really to the prelims

Once you start, you'll get like me, where you start finding Prelims a little boring

you come out upset or down-hearted have a break from it!

I used to do a prelim and then a novice, dip your toe in the water so to speak


----------



## BobbyMondeo (16 July 2015)

I would say go for it!

The novice tests are not too different from prelims and like you have said with prelim 7 they can be quite dull for the horses giving them excuses to be naughty. The movements in the novice tests come up a lot quicker bit for me this is better as i can keep horse listening and focussing on me rather than everything else at the show. 

Maybe go out and do prelim first then novice and see how you go


----------



## nato (17 July 2015)

This is totally personal (I am not a trainer, and am certainly not riding at Elementary level!) but I would prefer to be getting higher scores in Prelim before progressing to Novice. I would feel if I am getting high 60s/low 70s (more on the side of low 70s tbh) and am fairly alright at the Novice moves at home, then I'd look to move up. 

We are getting mid-60s in our prelim tests at present and I just wouldn't feel confident about the standard that the judges would expect from us in even the 'prelim-type' movements in Novice tests, vs the Prelim ones.


----------



## milliepops (17 July 2015)

mrsh2010 said:



			I was in your same shoes - however here was my attitude:

The mediums are generally 2 to 4 moves in the test, they say "show some" strides - if you don't get them, you don't get them, but the whole idea is to learn and improve.

You've got to give it a go at some point, or you'll never know.

I've had tests where I've cantered my medium trots, galloped uncontrollably in the medium canter, but both me and my horse have enjoyed ourselves - afterall that's what we have them for right?

Give it ago! It's hardly any different really to the prelims

Once you start, you'll get like me, where you start finding Prelims a little boring

you come out upset or down-hearted have a break from it!

I used to do a prelim and then a novice, dip your toe in the water so to speak 

Click to expand...

^^ this is me, too.  I *know* the theory of training a level above the one you compete at, but I've never really done that.  

Not wishing to be all doom and gloom, but horses break at the least convenient moments.  I want to enjoy my horses and achieve & learn as much as I can with them before it all goes wrong. I don't need to get worldbeating scores to have a positive & fun experience. As long as I know my horse is happy and confident at the level, I'm happy to give anything a bash.  The horse doesn't care if we only scrape 60%.  It's only pride that takes a bashing if you have a bad day. On the other hand, you might get a really good score and feel encouraged to carry on going up the levels 

(sorry. Had this years dreams crushed by another field injury.  Feeling woeful. But it means I'm even more inclined to just crack on and have a go when horse is fully healed again)


----------



## Rosesandhorses (17 July 2015)

If you pick your Novice test wisely you can pick one of the easier ones where there will be little-no counter canter and just a few medium paces. I think if you're finding prelim a little boring and your horse needs more to occupy him then it's definitely worth a bash! You can always go back to prelim if you feel you need to. It's also good to look at your collective comments and the judges usually give you an idea of whether you are 'good' for the level and whether you are just working at the level. I had one horse who needed her brain occupying that I never even bothered with prelim, another that struggled with mediums but was working around elementary in every other way and we had a bash at novice with mid 60 results. Have a look at some tests and practice riding them and you can get a feel for them.


----------



## LPL (18 July 2015)

nato said:



			This is totally personal (I am not a trainer, and am certainly not riding at Elementary level!) but I would prefer to be getting higher scores in Prelim before progressing to Novice. I would feel if I am getting high 60s/low 70s (more on the side of low 70s tbh) and am fairly alright at the Novice moves at home, then I'd look to move up. 


We are getting mid-60s in our prelim tests at present and I just wouldn't feel confident about the standard that the judges would expect from us in even the 'prelim-type' movements in Novice tests, vs the Prelim ones.
		
Click to expand...


I totally disagree with this. I get say 65% average at prelim level dressage usually in the top 5/10 locally. I'll then do a novice and get very similar 65% average still usually in the top ten because the novice tests give you a little more to show your horse off. As long as you are safe and enjoying it just have a go. What is the worst that could happen


----------



## Pigeon (18 July 2015)

I'm the opposite! I'd rather just have a bash at a test and enjoy it! 

My horse is smart(er than me) and needs his brain occupied. We prefer a challenge. I tell myself that once we have won at a level we have to move up. He got 80% and first place in his last novice, I'm not sure I'm ready for elem in front of a judge but he would probably enjoy it so why not!

I would rather be middle of the pile at elementary than winning at prelim


----------



## spike123 (18 July 2015)

Pigeon said:



			I would rather be middle of the pile at elementary than winning at prelim 

Click to expand...

Alot have said that people stick at prelim pot hunting rather than moving up when they should. For now I'm going to concentrate a bit more on working at home on the movements required of the novice tests and continue prelims but hopefully in around a months time I will be ready to go give it a try.


----------



## Kikke (18 July 2015)

Also why not try prelim 17 or 19, they have some movements that work towards novice and are long arena tests, giving you a bit more of een idea and are lot less boring then prelim 7.


----------



## chestnut cob (18 July 2015)

I'm doing my first novice tomorrow.  Not done any dressage since the last time I evented last year but horse is bored senseless in prelim tests.  In our eventing (80 & 90) dressage we are between 28 & 34 and last dressage comp I did we got 74% I think. horse is going 100x better now so I figured I may as well have a bash at a novice.  been through it in lesson today and he's got all movements spot on apart from med trot which is a bit wobbly as we've only worked on it a bit. that will come in time though and I'd rather have fun in a Nov than bored winning prelims because his med trot isn't perfect.

also remember a dressage test is meant to be a benchmark of where you are in your training!


----------



## spike123 (18 July 2015)

Kikke said:



			Also why not try prelim 17 or 19, they have some movements that work towards novice and are long arena tests, giving you a bit more of een idea and are lot less boring then prelim 7.
		
Click to expand...

This is what I am doing this week with my instructor to give us both a clue as to whether we are ready.


----------



## spike123 (18 July 2015)

chestnut cob said:



			I'm doing my first novice tomorrow.  Not done any dressage since the last time I evented last year but horse is bored senseless in prelim tests.  In our eventing (80 & 90) dressage we are between 28 & 34 and last dressage comp I did we got 74% I think. horse is going 100x better now so I figured I may as well have a bash at a novice.  been through it in lesson today and he's got all movements spot on apart from med trot which is a bit wobbly as we've only worked on it a bit. that will come in time though and I'd rather have fun in a Nov than bored winning prelims because his med trot isn't perfect.

also remember a dressage test is meant to be a benchmark of where you are in your training!
		
Click to expand...

Good luck with your test tomorrow. Let me know how it goes. I don't feel we are quite ready myself yet to move up but I will keep working at it and take it from there.


----------



## rachk89 (18 July 2015)

You could easily just do a preliminary then a novice like others have suggested. Even if it doesn't go as well as you expect you have tried and it's good practice. Or during a lesson with your instructor get them to call out a novice test and see how you do.

I like someone else said would be aiming for higher scores but that's just who I am. I love the challenge of dressage of trying to get as close to perfection as possible that's what makes it fun for me so I would be happy with high 70 to low 80 before moving on. But that is just me not everyone is like that. I wouldn't move on from in the 60s because there would be stuff I would want to improve first. With my current horse he wouldn't score highly on some things and based on that I see no point in putting him forward a level when he would be marked even lower for it. It wouldn't give me much confidence.


----------



## chestnut cob (19 July 2015)

spike123 said:



			Good luck with your test tomorrow. Let me know how it goes. I don't feel we are quite ready myself yet to move up but I will keep working at it and take it from there.
		
Click to expand...

we came 5th in our prelim with 70.68% (winner on 72% apparently) then only went and won the novice with 70%! judge said to me after that horse was lovely and even gave me some tips. The med trot was pretty rubbish tho I expected that. I'm over the moon. unaffiliated but judge is listed so hopefully it's a reasonably fair representation.  I was more interested in her comments after - really interesting.  she told me what she'd be doing if she was training him (basically what we're doing!) and where I lost silly marks.
go for it I say! I'm under no illusions that if it had been affiliated we'd have got a lower score but a fab day was had


----------



## spike123 (19 July 2015)

wow amazing scores. Well done. That gives me huge confidence to give it a go although it won't be before next month at the earliest i try as got too much already lined up and planning to do sunshine tours in September so scared to over qualify  if i qualify at novice level too soon as feel that would be too much to cope with for my horse. I'm also competing unaffiliated with listed judges currently but plan to go affiliated next year.


----------



## smja (20 July 2015)

Give it a go - my horse is much easier to ride round a Novice test than a Prelim one, he gets bored easily and invents himself some additional movements 

The counter canter isn't much more than a couple of strides down the long side, and the mediums are supposed to be progressive, not fully established.


----------



## Nannon (20 July 2015)

Go for it - what do you have to lose?! I do a prelim and a novice at BD currently with my boy and he scores better in the novice every time because he gets too much time to get up to mischief in the prelims...


----------



## glamourpuss (20 July 2015)

I'm being encouraged to step up to novice by a trainer. My horse is a smart little cookie & whilst very capable, he is very easily distracted. Recently I've seen our dressage scores out eventing slide in the wrong direction 
Yesterday we threw a little more at him to think about & he absolutely loved it! I think 2 fold I had more to do so stopped over managing him & he seemed to relish the challenge of trickier work!
I'm sure our scores won't be too amazing but I think it will go a long way to improving us overall.


----------



## Gloi (24 August 2018)

I'm not too bothered about winning classes. As soon as I start getting mid sixties in a class and can do the moves at home, even if they aren't great, I want to move up a class. Even if I don't do great I like to get the judges comments for the ideas of what I need to be working on. Waiting overlong to move up I think it's easier to get disappointed if things do go wrong when you do.


----------



## Notimetoride (27 August 2018)

You've done prelim to death so absolutely move up.  And you don't need to 'teach' counter canter as such.  Just keep a little outside bend as you hit the straight, simples !  Medium trot is taking my cob a while to get her head round and we are working hard on it.  It's not really established yet, however we did our first elementary a few weeks ago.  A slightly 'iffy' medium trot won't stop you doing novice and you can still get some fairly decent scores.  Go for it - you'll be pleasantly surprised I think


----------

