# 'first time xc only broken 5 days!'



## cobalobM (22 September 2014)

can't believe what I have just watched..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0o_Eyo6Rho&index=106&list=UUlREvNNJTW6A9KkOdReEX2g

I don't normally bi**h on here or bad mouth people but this is something else...


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## Auslander (22 September 2014)

Looks happy enough to me - going sweetly and popping everything happily. Some horses are "born broke".


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## Tash88 (22 September 2014)

There are unfortunately a lot of ignorant people involved with horses; it's bad enough that she's doing that to the poor pony, never mind the fact that she appears rather heavy and not much of a rider. I suppose she thinks that it will make people want to buy him.


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## JJS (22 September 2014)

If he's only been broken for 5 days, then it makes me wonder how old he is as much as anything else. A 3 year old doing cross country really doesn't sit well with me (however, I do acknowledge that he could be older).


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## Claire-R (22 September 2014)

*sigh*


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## ester (22 September 2014)

google tells me there is a 'dun dealers' - on another of their vids and an Imperial horses link - aka kate thurston?

eta - think poss different imperial?


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## LadyRascasse (22 September 2014)

ester said:



			google tells me there is a 'dun dealers' - on another of their vids and an Imperial horses link - aka kate thurston?
		
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Yes Ester that is who it is, well known for the 'it doesn't want to be broken' video


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## Walrus (22 September 2014)

How depressing - mine is 9 and has been broken 4.5 years and we don't go that sweetly!


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## ester (22 September 2014)

yes appears I was right, was getting confused with location 

https://www.facebook.com/PalominosForSaleInPeterborough/info


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## samlf (22 September 2014)

Auslander said:



			Looks happy enough to me - going sweetly and popping everything happily. Some horses are "born broke".
		
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Must admit I thought similar. 

However, there's no way it can be physically fit enough.


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## FestiveFuzz (22 September 2014)

samlf said:



			Must admit I thought similar. 

However, there's no way it can be physically fit enough.
		
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Yes, whilst I wish H would go that sweetly I can't help thinking its poor muscles wouldn't be up to it after just 5 days of being broken.


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## 3Beasties (22 September 2014)

Tash88 said:



			There are unfortunately a lot of ignorant people involved with horses; it's bad enough that she's doing that to the poor pony, never mind the fact that she appears rather heavy and not much of a rider. I suppose she thinks that it will make people want to buy him.
		
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It worries me that you think she is too heavy, I wouldn't have said that at all.


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## Casey76 (22 September 2014)

That's a heck of a lot of jumping for a green broke horse!  And no leg protection either


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## Annagain (22 September 2014)

I don't believe that pony has only been broken 5 days. Apart from anything, his steering is way too good, that canter, whilst far from perfect is too balanced for a real baby and there's not one second look or babyish jump in there. He knows what he's doing. If they're dealers, I imagine they're trying to make out he's doing that after just 5 days to suggest he's very easy to train and bump his price up (not that a horse doing XC after 5 days would be attractive to me)


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## eggs (22 September 2014)

^^^ with annagain

a sweet pony who did look very established for one broken for just 5 days.  Rider didn't look too bad


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## joycec (22 September 2014)

My guess?  Pony was bought as one of a job lot of 'unbroken' ponies from Ireland and has already done a season hunting.


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## Vickijay (22 September 2014)

Auslander said:



			Looks happy enough to me - going sweetly and popping everything happily. Some horses are "born broke".
		
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I'm with you. 

I wouldn't do it, because I like the horses I start too much, but I've started a few that could of trotted over some little jumps like that. Too risky to have a problem or an injury which you would end up kicking yourself about because in all honesty, there's no point in taking a day 5 horse cross country. 

I'm going to take my day 6 starter horse for a little hack this afternoon though


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## Slightlyconfused (22 September 2014)

joycec said:



			My guess?  Pony was bought as one of a job lot of 'unbroken' ponies from Ireland and has already done a season hunting.
		
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^^^^this


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## _GG_ (22 September 2014)

annagain said:



			I don't believe that pony has only been broken 5 days. Apart from anything, his steering is way too good, that canter, whilst far from perfect is too balanced for a real baby and there's not one second look or babyish jump in there. He knows what he's doing. If they're dealers, I imagine they're trying to make out he's doing that after just 5 days to suggest he's very easy to train and bump his price up (not that a horse doing XC after 5 days would be attractive to me)
		
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I have to agree with this and Auslander. The pony is keen and looks happy to be doing the work. There is a chance it has done a lot of good quality groundwork and I have known just broken horses jump this sweetly (only smaller and not as much) but it can sometimes be good to get them out and doing things so long as it is not often and not too much. I don't think the rider looks too heavy at all and I think it was fairly sympathetic riding into the fences. It appeared mostly that she was just allowing the horse to go in at a pace/gait in which it was comfortable, no yanking or nasty kicking/forcing to be seen. 

I would hope that the horse was late 4 or 5 years old, but to be honest, doing this occasionally can be a massive benefit to a young horse. Many horses become difficult because their training is taken too slowly. So of you have a willing horse, I see no problem with allowing them to go and experience a bit more, so long as they are not overfaced and it is kept to a minimum. 

What a lovely little horse is what stood out to me most and...it is worth saying that the video by the same people that played directly after this showed a horse in the school being worked very nicely indeed, soft, elastic contact, nice steady hands etc. so I wouldn't want to discredit these people off the bat.


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## RunToEarth (22 September 2014)

Casey76 said:



			That's a heck of a lot of jumping for a green broke horse!  And no leg protection either 

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Not all horses need to have leg protection to step foot out of their stables.


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## Walrus (22 September 2014)

joycec said:



			My guess?  Pony was bought as one of a job lot of 'unbroken' ponies from Ireland and has already done a season hunting.
		
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That would make more sense...


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## stormox (22 September 2014)

Does it matter whether it has boots on or not? plenty of horses go hunting each week, over much bigger fences, with no boots.  I think its going really well, and looks happy. And the rider is really well balanced and good with her hands - I would say the pony was well able to carry her round a xc course with no damage to itself.


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## MileAMinute (22 September 2014)

Wrong post.


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## Goldenstar (22 September 2014)

I never put leg protection on mine for jumping teeny fences and certainly never when they are starting jumping they need to learn banging their legs is a bad idea .
I suspect it is one of those read the book in womb ponies .
He'll make someone a really nice pony .
However it's way more work than I would do at that stage .
I hope he's not three .


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## numptynoelle (22 September 2014)

I'd eat my hat if it had only been sat on for 5 days - doesn't look like it's has any baby-wobbliness at all. Lovely wee thing, and I think rather sympathetically ridden - no flapping, kicking etc. Probably not what I'd do with a baby, but it's not my horse! 

To be perfectly honest, I've seen far worse videos on here from blissfully ignorant owners! :rolleyes3:


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## stormox (22 September 2014)

I expect it was following the other horse to help it keep straight and give it confidence to jump. No bad thing in my opinion.


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## JFTDWS (22 September 2014)

numptynoelle said:



			To be perfectly honest, I've seen far worse videos on here from blissfully ignorant owners! :rolleyes3:
		
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There is that!


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## Tiddlypom (22 September 2014)

Lovely little horse, sympathetically ridden. 

However, what if someone posted the following question on HHO.

'My horse has not been ridden for three years, through no fault of his own. He's a very easy, genuine type. I've just started to ride him again this week, and I've been offered a chance to take him cross country schooling at the weekend. Do you think I should take him?'

We'd all reply 'No, he won't be fit enough!'. So what's the difference here? Born broke or not, that was a lot of jumping for a baby.


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## PapaFrita (22 September 2014)

annagain said:



			I don't believe that pony has only been broken 5 days. Apart from anything, his steering is way too good, that canter, whilst far from perfect is too balanced for a real baby and there's not one second look or babyish jump in there. He knows what he's doing. If they're dealers, I imagine they're trying to make out he's doing that after just 5 days to suggest he's very easy to train and bump his price up (not that a horse doing XC after 5 days would be attractive to me)
		
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I agree.


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## saddlesore (22 September 2014)

I don't think for a second he's just backed either.

Eta- nice horse though!


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## _GG_ (22 September 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			Lovely little horse, sympathetically ridden. 

However, what if someone posted the following question on HHO.

'My horse has not been ridden for three years, through no fault of his own. He's a very easy, genuine type. I've just started to ride him again this week, and I've been offered a chance to take him cross country schooling at the weekend. Do you think I should take him?'

We'd all reply 'No, he won't be fit enough!'. So what's the difference here? Born broke or not, that was a lot of jumping for a baby.
		
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As devils advocate here, I would say a major difference would be that to be just broken, it is highly likely that there has been a decent amount of groundwork done for the pony to be that balanced and it doesn't look as weak as most, not did it look to be finding it hard, so I think a just broken horse that has been in consistent ground work is far more capable than a horse coming in from the field for 5 days. 

This is based on assumptions of course.


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## FestiveFuzz (22 September 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			Lovely little horse, sympathetically ridden. 

However, what if someone posted the following question on HHO.

'My horse has not been ridden for three years, through no fault of his own. He's a very easy, genuine type. I've just started to ride him again this week, and I've been offered a chance to take him cross country schooling at the weekend. Do you think I should take him?'

We'd all reply 'No, he won't be fit enough!'. So what's the difference here? Born broke or not, that was a lot of jumping for a baby.
		
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That's assuming the horse has just been sat in a field until he was broken. There could have been a lot of groundwork that took place beforehand that would have helped with fitness. Though I still stand by my thoughts that his muscles wouldn't have been developed enough to deal with this if he had indeed been broken for just 5 days.


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## Kikke (22 September 2014)

Auslander said:



			Looks happy enough to me - going sweetly and popping everything happily. Some horses are "born broke".
		
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'born broke' or 'broken at first contact' poor pony don't want to know what will be in store for her. poor joints.


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## _GG_ (22 September 2014)

Kikke said:



			'born broke' or 'broken at first contact' poor pony don't want to know what will be in store for her. poor joints.
		
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I don't understand that. If these are dealers and this pony gets sold, being an honest, genuine little thing means that she will most likely find herself in a good home. It's not these ponies that need our worry, it's the ones that can't/won't/don't go well that face the most uncertain futures. This little one is probably headed for a life of being treated like a little princess.


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## Goldenstar (22 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			I don't understand that. If these are dealers and this pony gets sold, being an honest, genuine little thing means that she will most likely find herself in a good home. It's not these ponies that need our worry, it's the ones that can't/won't/don't go well that face the most uncertain futures. This little one is probably headed for a life of being treated like a little princess.
		
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This what I think too.
A pony like that will be away from the dealers soon and with a mind like that it has every chance having a very very happy life.


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## Moomin1 (22 September 2014)

annagain said:



			I don't believe that pony has only been broken 5 days. Apart from anything, his steering is way too good, that canter, whilst far from perfect is too balanced for a real baby and there's not one second look or babyish jump in there. He knows what he's doing. If they're dealers, I imagine they're trying to make out he's doing that after just 5 days to suggest he's very easy to train and bump his price up (not that a horse doing XC after 5 days would be attractive to me)
		
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I agree with this.  But if it is true that it's only been broken 5 days, then I find it abhorrent tbh.


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## Auslander (22 September 2014)

Kikke said:



			'born broke' or 'broken at first contact' poor pony don't want to know what will be in store for her. poor joints.
		
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Yeah - thanks for singling me out!

What's in store for this pony? Probably a very nice PC home where he/she will be loved to bits, and have a very nice life. Good safe ponies who do the job without drama tend to land on their feet.


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## Moomin1 (22 September 2014)

Auslander said:



			Yeah - thanks for singling me out!

What's in store for this pony? Probably a very nice PC home where he/she will be loved to bits, and have a very nice life. Good safe ponies who do the job without drama tend to land on their feet.
		
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That's a fair point, and probably correct. However it doesn't make it right that a newly broken pony should be put under strain in that way.


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## Kikke (22 September 2014)

Auslander said:



			Yeah - thanks for singling me out!

What's in store for this pony? Probably a very nice PC home where he/she will be loved to bits, and have a very nice life. Good safe ponies who do the job without drama tend to land on their feet.
		
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not singling you out at all except that I don't think any pony or horse is born broke and that was your comment so there you go.
sure a pony like that may be very popular doesn't change the fact that it is unhealthy to make a pony jump like that after only 5 days of work! And well yes it may well land on it's feet at a good home but again doesn't change the 'bad' start and the consequences for the poor thing in the future!


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## delaneys (22 September 2014)

I was at the sales he was sold at, and he was indeed brought by these people as unbroken, however from his general behaviour at the sale if say his groundwork was excellent!


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## Rhodders (22 September 2014)

who knows when it was backed there's a lot of b***** goes round in the horse world.  My been backed 6 months welshie would have a break down trying to work out where his legs were if I asked him to do this but, I hopefully have the rest of his days to enjoy him and aren't looking to make a fast buck


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## Amymay (22 September 2014)

annagain said:



			I don't believe that pony has only been broken 5 days. Apart from anything, his steering is way too good, that canter, whilst far from perfect is too balanced for a real baby and there's not one second look or babyish jump in there. He knows what he's doing. If they're dealers, I imagine they're trying to make out he's doing that after just 5 days to suggest he's very easy to train and bump his price up (not that a horse doing XC after 5 days would be attractive to me)
		
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I agree. And its a lovely little horse. 

Why on earth does it need leg protection? And of course the rider is not to heavy.


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## Auslander (22 September 2014)

Kikke said:



			not singling you out at all except that I don't think any pony or horse is born broke and that was your comment so there you go.
sure a pony like that may be very popular doesn't change the fact that it is unhealthy to make a pony jump like that after only 5 days of work! And well yes it may well land on it's feet at a good home but again doesn't change the 'bad' start and the consequences for the poor thing in the future!
		
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I don't think i said anywhere that I thought it was correct to do so - I commented that it was going sweetly and jumping confidently. 

"Born broke" is just an expression, and one that people who start a lot of youngsters will understand. You may have had a different experience with the horses you have started - I've found that there are always some who seem to understand what its all about right from the word go, and are naturally balanced, confident and find work easy, just as there are always others who take far longer than you'd expect just to get the basics installed.


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## springtime1331 (22 September 2014)

Think I might send them my 5 year olds for a couple of weeks, I have the opposite problem and don't push them enough!


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## MerrySherryRider (22 September 2014)

Lovely horse with a cracking attitude. Without knowing whether the background is true or cock and bull, it's a horse that's worth a second look. Then its up to the skill of the buyer to see exactly where the horse is at, regarding maturity, age and what training it's actually had.


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## PStarfish (22 September 2014)

What I saw in that video was a green, honest baby following his friend over some jumps. He'll make someone a lovely mount whatever the politics behind jumping so soon after breaking.


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## maccachic (23 September 2014)

That was a lot of fences / cantering for something broken 5 days but I wonder what the owners def of broken is - maybe its when its buttons and steering is all established so could well be quite fit by then.  If it was 5th time being ridden very different story.


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## _GG_ (23 September 2014)

maccachic said:



			That was a lot of fences / cantering for something broken 5 days but I wonder what the owners def of broken is - maybe its when its buttons and steering is all established so could well be quite fit by then.  If it was 5th time being ridden very different story.
		
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This. It says "5 days after being broken" not "5 days after being backed". Everyone is always so keen to judge, assume and pour scorn on others but when you really look at the video, all I see is happy little youngster, enjoying the experience and being ridden really nicely through it. Not cantered into everything, not forced, not pushed, kicked or bullied. 

5 days after being broken could well mean 5 days after a predetermined period of training. It would certainly seem that way given the ease of the pony in this video.


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## fawaz (23 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			That's a fair point, and probably correct. However it doesn't make it right that a newly broken pony should be put under strain in that way.
		
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How do you know its not 5, 6 or 7 plus and been free jumping since it was 4 over 1.10m+ ? Popping over dome little jumps once broken is hardly going to be hard for it!


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## joycec (23 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			This. It says "5 days after being broken" not "5 days after being backed". Everyone is always so keen to judge, assume and pour scorn on others ...........

5 days after being broken could well mean 5 days after a predetermined period of training.
		
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How would you count five days after being broken though? When is a horse 'broken', to start counting from if you don't count from when it is sat on?  I don't think people were unfair to assume that it meant from being sat on, and your comment is a bit harsh.

I don't think it's true, but that's beside the point.


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## Moomin1 (23 September 2014)

fawaz said:



			How do you know its not 5, 6 or 7 plus and been free jumping since it was 4 over 1.10m+ ? Popping over dome little jumps once broken is hardly going to be hard for it!
		
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Free jumping is hardly the same as having a rider on.  Whilst the rider on board isn't over heavy for the pony IMO, she's not lightweight either.  Secondly, some of those jumps are hardly little...or they certainly aren't what I would class as small for a newly broken pony anyway.  

I am quite perplexed as to how people can think doing the jumps in the vid would be 'easy' for a newly broken pony with a rider on board.


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## dollymix (23 September 2014)

Just to throw my two pen nth in!
Maybe he was sent away to professionals to be "broken"? He might have been on a pro yard for a couple of months and now returned as "broken"? 

I had a friend send hers away to be broken at a pro yard as a 5 yr old after she'd done months of ground work. She just didn't have the self confidence to put in place his early schooling. He came back a lovely, sweet, correctly going young horse, a little green. And he certainly would have jumped like this pony.... Who I think is a very sweet little thing BTW! 

Not saying I agree with hammering young horses... Far from it. But extremely difficult to judge the situation on the title of one YouTube video!


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## cobalobM (23 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Free jumping is hardly the same as having a rider on.  Whilst the rider on board isn't over heavy for the pony IMO, she's not lightweight either.  Secondly, some of those jumps are hardly little...or they certainly aren't what I would class as small for a newly broken pony anyway.  

I am quite perplexed as to how people can think doing the jumps in the vid would be 'easy' for a newly broken pony with a rider on board.
		
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exactly. even if this pony had done tonnes and tonnes of groundwork/long reining/lunging/free jumping, nothing can prepare a pony's muscles for having a rider on board, no matter if its a 4yo or 7yo.. 

I really dont get how people are defending this video saying its okay... I was horrified when I saw it, they're not small jumps either. 

the title is "first time xc only broken 5 days".. i dont get how that is not clear? the pony has been broken 5 days... had a rider on its back for the first time 5 days ago.


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## HazyXmas (23 September 2014)

springtime1331 said:



			Think I might send them my 5 year olds for a couple of weeks, I have the opposite problem and don't push them enough!
		
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I was just thinking the same thing


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## HeresHoping (23 September 2014)

We all know who this is...but, for what it's worth, she only takes them round XC for the purposes of the video for sale.  As the MO is to buy 'unusual' coloureds (heavily into spotties these days) that didn't make it through the sales on the Emerald Isle, no doubt the pony has been hunting.  Ironically, one of her many guises, to be found on face ache, is 'horses described with integrity' (or words to that effect).  I think I've seen pics of that pony on there and it probably has gone by now.

ETA... just be careful saying things here or anywhere - there have been some very big hoohaas that have resulted.


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## _GG_ (23 September 2014)

joycec said:



			How would you count five days after being broken though? When is a horse 'broken', to start counting from if you don't count from when it is sat on?  I don't think people were unfair to assume that it meant from being sat on, and your comment is a bit harsh.

I don't think it's true, but that's beside the point.
		
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I don't know and that is just the point. We don't know. It certainly doesn't look.like a pony that has been.sat on for 5 days. When I used to back and break, it was just that. If people asked what stage a horse was at, I would say it was just backed, in training or just broken, the latter meaning walk, trot, canter and popping a small jump. But that's just me.

Nowhere have I said I would do the same as in this video and I don't think I have been harsh. The posters who have said things like the rider is far to big and bouncing on his back are being harsh...and rude. Too many assumptions have been made and judgement poured out based on those assumptions.

Would I jump a young horse like this? No...but I've been on here a while now and most know me well enough to know that I am against any kind of pressure/force/overfacing a horse. The fact is, I don't think it's great but I certainly don't think it has warranted some of the comments.


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## smellsofhorse (23 September 2014)

I don't believe he has only be backed 6 mm5 days.

While far from balanced.
He doesn't seem green "enough"

He much be a horse broken older than normal and it it very wrong to rush any inexperienced horse like that.

Just all wrong :-(


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## ester (23 September 2014)

how many facebook pages does one dealer need! 

(honestly described horses!)


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## _GG_ (23 September 2014)

smellsofhorse said:



			I don't believe he has only be backed 6 mm5 days.

While far from balanced.
He doesn't seem green "enough"

He much be a horse broken older than normal and it it very wrong to rush any inexperienced horse like that.

Just all wrong :-(
		
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Yes, it is wrong. I guess I personally would just like to see a little perspective here as some really odd things have been said. 

I don't agree with working a recently backed horse like this, BUT, I can't get too high up on my horse about it because it is work that is creating a quality pony that has a fantastic chance of getting good homes for the rest of its life. I would much rather that approach than novices buying cheap ponies from the sales, faffing around and confusing them, taking things slowly slowly without knowing how to assess the horse properly and ending up with something unruly/potentially dangerously spoilt as that is the kind of horse that people like myself and Moomin1 have had so many dealing with at the other end of the scale after years of never being good enough to get the good homes, so being passed on from one questionable home to another....and that's if they're lucky. 

All I have said in a previous post is that I disagree with people jumping to conclusions and judging the rider based on those possibly erroneous assumptions, but I have been called rude? 

Perhaps I am. Or, perhaps my eyes have been opened to a degree that whilst I would never do or advise anyone else do this and it is not my choice of sales prep, it does vastly increase the chances of these ponies getting really nice homes, where they will be properly brought on. In short, I would rather a horse do a little too much for a few days to get some videos that will secure it a great home, than be messed about with and end up back at the sales with the kind of future that none of us want for any horse.


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## maccachic (23 September 2014)

Big difference in my definition of backed and broken obviously not everyone's definition is the same.


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## Mike007 (24 September 2014)

Never mind the blurb. I watched a lovely little horse ,as honest as the day is long, sympatheticly ridden. I have to be honest here . I hadnt read much of the post and in typical hho fashion went straight to the pics. So at first |I was surprised by the leisurely pace ,trotting between fences . Again ,not having read the preamble I was slightly bemused by the level of skill of the rider and the pace being taken . And in typical male fashion ,I then read the blurb. Now all is clear to me and frankly I have no worries for this horse. What I saw gives me no concern ,what I read ,I simply treat with my usual male laissefaire


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## windand rain (24 September 2014)

I agree 100% with GG where it is not something I would do after 5 days I would rather see a good little settled pony get a good home than some of the things I do see where people are buying cheap and trying to knock them into shape The only issue I had with the video was that the pony got tired at that point it should have been stopped and taken home.
 I do however see and here of lots of horses still only walking after 6 months of backing who are bored to tears and strapped down so they are on the bit or worse still worked in  a Pessoa. Tool of the devil in the wrong hands which is most people


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## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

amymay said:



			I agree. And its a lovely little horse. 

Why on earth does it need leg protection? And of course the rider is not to heavy.
		
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Good gods Amymay, are you ok??  That post is a veritable essay for you!


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## milesjess (24 September 2014)

Not something I'd do but the horse does seem happy, and jumps everything put before it. Very honest and if it's happy enough to do it then I don't see why not.

It's not being galloped about or cantered into the fences, so they are obviously letting it have a good look and not pushing it to exhaustion. 

I think it's all good experience of it, and yeah admittedly I wouldn't if it was mine but it's looked after and the rider does ride it well so can't see why someone has said she not much of a rider because fair play to her 

Maybe it's a spin off to sell it or a load of rubbish, but if it's true and genuine then that pony has a little heart of gold for trying and I'd snap it up if I was buying.


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