# Slipping Stifles - what is there to know?



## Christmas Crumpet (17 July 2014)

It is looking likely that my new horse has a slipping stifle. It is only mild and noticeable going downhill on the road. I have been riding bareback as we have had some saddle issues and so I probably have noticed more than I would if I were riding with a saddle on. I also do ride on the road a lot and sure you notice a lot more when riding on a hard surface. She is also dragging her toes which is noticeable on the road when trotting. Some days she doesn't drag them at all when she is hyped up and other days you hear lots of clinking when she is trotting. She squared off her toes when she was shod with Natural Balance shoes behind last shoeing. She now has normal hinds on and feet look normal although we've hardly trotted on the road. 

Her old owner swears they've never had a day's lameness with her, she didn't drag her toes and no slipping stifle. However, they did keep her on a hill, never trotted on the road and if she did stumble behind, they probably would have put it down to riding on rough ground etc. Who knows? 

The vet has been out who said she had very tight hamstrings. Whether or not this is because of the stifle or a result of we don't know. Vet is due back out tomorrow so we will look a bit closer. 

She passed a 5 stage with flying colours and the vet said she was in great nick. 

She's had both physio and McTimoney - 2 sessions of McTimoney and she was a far happier pony. Old owner rode her in the same saddle for a long time which didn't fit. Physio has been once and is back again tomorrow as well. She noted that mare had very tight muscles behind the saddle which were due to the hamstrings being so tight. 

What I want to know is how badly does it affect horses? She was bought to hunt and so will hopefully be super fit throughout the winter (if we get that far). I know that lots and lots of slow hill work and raised trotting poles to build up the muscles to support the stifle. Its a bit ironic really because she has a massive bottom!! Anyway good and bad stories please, I want to know exactly what we are facing here.


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## tiga71 (17 July 2014)

My horse has a weak stifle that was slipping a lot. We did lots of hill work, work in straight lines and trotting poles and haven't had a problem since. It has been about 3.5 years now. He is 16 and has just had a chiro appt and she said he is in excellent shape. He is worked hard, 6 days a week and my vet says he needs this type of work to keep the muscle around the stifle strong and supportive. The only time we saw a little problem was when I was on holiday over Christmas for 4 weeks and he was only worked 3-4 days a week. When I came back he got a bit hoppy in trot, but after a couple of weeks of getting back into proper work he was fine again. 

We do endurance (35km rides), hunt, cross country, jump, trec, dressage and gymkhana and two lessons a week. He does everything and is very, very fit. According to the vet and chiro, it is his level of work and the variety of the work that keeps his stifle strong. He will always have a weakness in it and he kind of swings his back leg out a bit more than normal though. Vet says that is a mechanical way he has found to make it easier for him. He also is very good at shifting me off his weaker side and so we have done a lot of work to help him get his weaker hind under him more as he finds this a bit difficult. 

I would say that in the grand scheme of things it doesn't affect us at all in our day-to-day riding. It would be a problem if we wanted to do higher level dressage probably but we don't so no drama.

I think you can be quite positive for a good outcome if you put the work in. But you may find that you need to keep up with a decent level of work all year round. My vet says that my horse will never be a 3 day a week ride horse - because that won't keep his muscle tight enough to support his stifle.

Good luck and don't worry about it too much.


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## Christmas Crumpet (17 July 2014)

Tiga71 - that sounds really positive. Thank you!! I have felt really down about all of this and am hoping the vet says yes just weak stifle, get on and get the pony fit and we can push on.


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## Luckycharm (27 October 2014)

Have you had any developments with your horse's slipping stifles and tight hamstrings? My horse is displaying the same symptoms :-/


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## Christmas Crumpet (28 October 2014)

The vet felt that the two issues didn't help each other. The hamstrings needed rest and the stifle needed work!! We had the physio out a few times and McTimoney lady too and we got the saddle sorted. 

Anyway I was told to crack on and get her really fit which I did and the issue went away and we have done all sorts of fun things including lots of jumping.

However, we have had a tiny setback as last week she had 2 days off after a busy weekend and was pratting about in the field and obviously tweaked something because the stifle has started to slip again. I have got the vet coming today and physio tomorrow but vet has told me to carry on as normal. I just want to check that everything is ok and so hence why vet is coming out. I rode this morning and really made the horse work all the way and the stifle only slipped once going down a very steep, sharp hill on a corner. The main thing is that you can't let your horse just lollop along on a loose rein. They have to work properly from behind otherwise the hind end won't strengthen. 

You may notice that the opposed foreleg stumbles a bit too going downhill. I would suggest getting the physio out for the hamstrings and they will give you some exercises to do as well. Its not a disaster by any means I promise!! Bute is good for the hamstrings to reduce inflammation and work is good for the stifles to strengthen everything. Speak to your vet - the technical name is Intermittent Upward Fixation of the Patella. There is so much info on the internet but it can overwhelm you!!


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## atlantis (3 November 2014)

My friends highland has this. He was just weak behind. Lots of hills and pole work and some equine touch to his hamstrings (which he hated so they must have been tight - they normally love ET but it does hurt on tight muscles - ask my husband). 

Physio another good suggestion.


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## Goldenstar (3 November 2014)

A good physio can do a lot for the hamstrings but it may need regular ongoing work.
There's a fantastic hunter who goes out with us he has a slipping stifle and like yours it was not picked up on vetting but his owner manages him well and it does not effect the horses ability to be great at his job .
Have a look on eBay and see if you can get a hand held massage unit at a reasonable price I have used one with great effect in the past on a horse with tight hamstrings .
You need to track down why the hamstrings are tight if you can something is driving that.


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## Christmas Crumpet (3 November 2014)

Just to say the vet cleared horse for normal work after flexions, trotting up etc. Horse to go on a good joint supplement and to carry on with work. 

Physio came out next day and said she was all jammed up behind saddle on her slipping side and in the wither area on the diagonal side. Her hamstrings were very tight on the slipping side as well. So clearly the hamstrings and slipping stifles go hand in hand. Physio thinks we will need monthly physio to keep on top of it.

I have a feeling this will never clear up, I will just be managing the situation. Fingers crossed horse can continue to do her job hunting and be happy.


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## Tnavas (3 November 2014)

From minimal experience over the years the fitter you keep a horse with slipping stifles the less likely they are to slip. Probebly living on hill grazing kept the muscles toned enough to prevent them slipping


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## tiga71 (3 November 2014)

It is definitely something you have to manage but the best way, in my experience, is plenty of varied work. We are on the South Downs and do a 4 hour hack at least once a week. All the hill work and purposeful hacking definitely helps.

We just got back yesterday from a week on Dartmoor. We went for a cattle mustering holiday and the cowboy couldn't believe my horse, who is 16, kept up with his horses on the tough terrain and steep uphill and downhill work. We rode out for 5 days straight and were out for between 3.5 hours and 5 hours each day. The oldest horse they have that works on Dartmoor is 11 and the cowboy said he did really well to work so hard for the 5 days, dealing with the terrain well. And that is with a dodgy stifle!!!


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## Christmas Crumpet (3 November 2014)

I thought my horse was pretty fit but she could be a lot fitter. My vet has told me not to worry and to push on because slipping stifles are a mechanical lameness. She is on day 4 of a joint supplement (Hack Up bespoke in case anyone is interested) and we should see a difference within 2 weeks according to Alex at Hack Up.

I do worry about it though especially as we seemed to have totally cracked it and she wasn't doing it at all anymore. However, thinking about it, she has started to come in at night which probably doesn't help but we are on such wet clay that she cannot stay out all night. Being confined at nighttime isn't ideal for the stifles. Clearly, I just need to try and manage it. More than one day off is not a good idea so even if she has a really hard day's hunting, she can only have one day off. 

Luckily we do have a lot of hills round here so that is a plus!!!


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## Brightbay (3 November 2014)

My big horse has had this since he came to me aged 4.  It has been more or less noticeable depending on his fitness and how hilly his field has been.  He also has SI issues due to an accident in the field - we suspect the stifle may have contributed to this.  We try to manage it by keeping him as fit as possible, on full turnout, and in a hilly field so he is walking up and down hills all day every day.

The most interesting aspect for me has been the hoof balance one though.  We did a bit of experimenting with allowing him to self trim his hinds over the last 12 months and he has been going amazingly well, but grows a slight flare on the lateral quarter of the hind hoof of the affected leg.  Our regular trimmer had an accident during the summer and for two trim visits, the horse was trimmed by someone filling in for the regular person.  The first trim, I noticed he was back to "dropping" again in occasional downward transitions but it only happened once or twice.  The second trim was 6 weeks ago, and this time it was really noticeable - he was dipping his back end on downward transitions and it was worse in the week immediately following the trim, gradually improving as the weeks went past.  I spoke to the regular trimmer last week, and we have agreed he leaves the hinds to their own devices bar checking for obvious imbalances.  Horse hasn't dipped since at all, and the funny flare is reappearing.  It seems given the opportunity, he grows his own "stabilisers".  If hoof balance isn't something you've looked into so far, maybe it would be worth investigating?


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## Christmas Crumpet (3 November 2014)

That is interesting Brightbay - she was shod on Friday and has seemed worse since then. I thought she felt really good last Weds/Fri before farrier came. She had a day off on Thurs after physio. 

I am keeping a diary of what happens on each ride so might be able to see a pattern emerging.

Unfortunately our fields are totally flat - there is nothing we can do about that. As I said earlier though we have a lot of hills so she will just have to do a lot more of them!!!


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