# Mis sold or Me? Advice please



## LittleHoundDoggie (18 January 2016)

Hi, Ive just joined the forum and would like opinions please.  

I bought myself a Connemara gelding two months ago.  I had my own as a child ( New Forest ) and soon found how green he was, At 12 I got him sorted out, traffic proof etc.  I hacked round huge roundabouts as a teenager.

I had a 30 year break from riding and started again 4 years ago.  I wanted my own as I like to ride regularly and as I am carer for my husband I wanted an older, more experienced pony.  Mostly as a happy hacker as I am now in my mid fifties.   I tried quite a few and eventually went some distance to try a rising 9 year old.  I rode him for almost 2 hours as we got lost! Along the roads, first and last on the hack, stayed behind as the other person cantered away and asked him to canter away.  He was great.  Jumped a couple of times when startled by dog owners appearing out of bushes but nothing much.

Got him home, obviously I realised he would take time to settle but he is so spooky.  It isn't napping, he literally jumps out of his skin at bikes, bushes, birds, everything really.  He will shy sideways, leap forwards and he is also spooky on the yard. At wheelbarrows, children in the distance.  Anything makes him jump.

Ive down some digging ( good old google) and found he was brought from Ireland, unhanded as a six year old.  He then went to a novice child for a year until outgrown.  Ive seen video on youtube with the girl, he looks to have been ridden in a menage or in a local field, with her friend on foot.

I specifically stated several times that I was looking for a pony with experience of hacking and that he be as safe as possible ( all ponies will shy) and I feel that I have got a very green lad.

Interestingly, I hired a menage at my local riding school last week.  I chose it as it is by a busy A road with heavy lorries passing the other side too as it is near a gravel pit.  There was a pony fence running and upwards of 200 seagulls wheeling overhead.  WE also had the jets come over.  He didn't bat an eyelid, obviously the menage is a comfortable place for him. Any of these things would set him off out hacking. 

Is it likely that he will improve?  Or is it more likely that he has a nervous nature and will always jump at the slightest thing?

Would you send him back and look around again?

I accept that it could well be me so have arranged for a friend to hack him out with me on her pony. 

He is a nice chap on the ground, he is out at grass daily and only on balancer and chaff.  When I tried him he was so laid back he stood quietly waiting for the dealer to tack her horse up.  He hates standing still at home although he is polite and lets me mount/dismount without moving.

I am firm but fair with him, he is handled by five of us as we share duty. He walks nicely to and from his field unless he is spooking at things.

Thanks so much if you have managed to read all this.


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## Orca (18 January 2016)

I would give him more time, if doing so won't destroy your confidence. 

Are you confident when riding him? I only ask because my mare is green but as soon as I'm firm and show leadership, she places her trust in me completely and isn't afraid. 

I would say to keep hacking out with your friend, do as much as you can and desensitise him through exposure. Keep calmly and firmly guiding him through his wobbles. If he's good in every other way, personally, I'd be happy to help him though this and if his character indicates that he is usually accepting and calm, I'd expect to see an improvement over time.

Eta: Another trick I'd utilise is to use schooling techniques while hacking, so that his focus is on you and what you are asking. If you keep his mind busy and on you he's likely to find less things to worry about outside of your bubble.


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## luckyoldme (18 January 2016)

I found myself in a very similair situation about 7 years ago.
I bought a lovely looking quiet chestnut gelding that turned into a monster on the way home.In the first few months i ended up in a and e about four times and got to the stage i just wanted rid.
Fortunately my oh had got rather attatched and persuaded me to keep the horse, I turned him out and gave up riding him for a while, and just got to know him. i brought him in every day , groomed him gave him a feed then just built up to riding him again bit by bit. It took about 3 months but ive had the horse 7 years now. Somehow the fact that it wasnt easy to start off with just makes it all the better now. 
I think i completely underestimated how long it would take for him to settle, and also the effect that having nearly 25 years totally away from horses would have on my confidence.
It was really awful when i first got him, but keeping him was the best thing i ever did.


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## Pinkvboots (18 January 2016)

Are you hacking on your own?


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## webble (18 January 2016)

Can you stick to riding in the school and hacking with friends for now? Do some groundwork with him and have some lessons to help get to know each other. He has to trust you out hacking that you will protect him from monsters


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## ihatework (18 January 2016)

A few questions -
How long have you had him?
Are you hacking alone? Is he better in company?
Are you nervous or anxious about hacking him?
Is he fed hay or haylage?


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## Cortez (18 January 2016)

2 months is no time at all, he probably just needs time to get used to a new life with you. However, your increasing nervousness will only add to his. Can you get someone more experienced to hack him out for you (and get an opinion on his basic temperament)?


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## luckyoldme (18 January 2016)

webble said:



			Can you stick to riding in the school and hacking with friends for now? Do some groundwork with him and have some lessons to help get to know each other. He has to trust you out hacking that you will protect him from monsters
		
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i think thats a lovely way of putting it!


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## webble (18 January 2016)

luckyoldme said:



			i think thats a lovely way of putting it!
		
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Well Indy worries when I don't take bags in hedges seriously. One day something will happen or one will attack and prove him right


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## luckyoldme (18 January 2016)

webble said:



			Well Indy worries when I don't take bags in hedges seriously. One day something will happen or one will attack and prove him right 

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my mad horse strolled past a tree harvester felling trees without a care in the world then walked round the corner and tried to do one when he saw a cat..they are mad!


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## madlady (18 January 2016)

All horses are different and where one will settle pretty much straightaway another may take months and months.

You both need to trust each other and currently you don't but that is something that can be worked on.

You say that previously when he hacked with his younger rider that there was always someone there on foot - that person would have been his leader and security blanket and now he doesn't have that.  If he is good to lead and on the ground then I'd take him on short in hand hacks - to get him used to you, your voice and the fact that you are now leader.  If possible I'd long rein him (or get someone to help) out around his new environment so that he goes forward without following and then try getting back on board.

Hacking alone, in a strange new place, with a strange new human could have been just a little overwhelming.  It wouldn't make me give up on him though.

I would say though that if you want to be mainly hacking alone then that is what you need to work on now - if you get him hacking out nicely in company he may well revert as soon as you ask him to go alone.


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## tatty_v (18 January 2016)

I think there are a couple of things to think about:
- do you feel he has settled in yet? If he's a sensitive pony then it could take many months before he truly feels safe and at home in his new surroundings and the issues could be cropping up when you're solo hacking out because he feels more exposed?
- time of year - my Connie was way more spooky at the weekend on his own than he normally is, maybe because of the weather, lack of grazing etc?
- riding style - maybe he's more settled in the school because his brain is being kept busy but when hacking out he has more time to think (and therefore spook?)
If he's good in every other respect (and it sounds like he is) then maybe all you need is time and patience until he's settled. When my lad first arrived my husband would come out walking with us/on his bike, and that seemed to settle him initially - would that be an option? X


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## Goldenstar (18 January 2016)

Many horses will act like this alone in a strange place so I would say he's just behaving like a horse who needs leadership whose is being hacked in a strange place alone with a novice rider .
I don't think you have been misold you bought a horse who is now behaving like a horse .
You bought a Connie well know for their sharp behaviour .
I would pay an experianced rider to hack him on his own for you three times a week  i would try to get company when you can I would get him into work seven days a week and I would feed him only hay .
Then in two months see where you are .


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## gnubee (18 January 2016)

If at the trial you tested the pony in the situations you are now struggling in then unless you think he was drugged (did you have blood taken at the vetting?) or the issue is intermittent now then it seems more likely to be an issue with how you are riding / managing him than that he was mis sold.


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## webble (18 January 2016)

luckyoldme said:



			my mad horse strolled past a tree harvester felling trees without a care in the world then walked round the corner and tried to do one when he saw a cat..they are mad!
		
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Yes that sounds about right, I bet you didn't take the cat seriously either did you


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## Damnation (18 January 2016)

My horse is scared of stray leaves.

Autumn is a bad time for us.

HGV? No problem, its not even there....


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## Silver (18 January 2016)

More time needed. 
You are going down the right avenue as getting someone else to ride may help out, ideally a professional in the area such as an advanced instructor or someone who trains and starts horses. At the same time check all tack fits well, have a vet check and re assess horses turn out and feeding. Much better to find a way to make things work than pass on again.


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## LittleHoundDoggie (18 January 2016)

WOW, thanks so much to everyone who has replied.  Lots to think about.  OK, Ive had him 2 months.  He seems very happy, I have grass!!  He was kept out 24/7 with access to hay only, he was rugged and had bites all over his neck so I'm guessing he had to fight for the hay. I stopped all hard food for 3 weeks after I had problems ( on Vet advice) and then started very slowly.  He is out on grass all day, in at night ( he loves grass). I'm guessing he has more energy with the sugars in the grass.  

He is lazy in the small indoor school and has just about stopped spooking in there.  Its out hacking.  I have not tried taking him out alone, that seemed a bit much to ask straight after a move and a change to an adult owner.  He is just as bad following as leading.  He literally jumps frequently at movement and noise.  I had a friend come out on her bike ( with another friend on horseback), we had her cycle closer until she was beside us. He finally relaxed.  Next day, two cyclists rode past him and he leapt forwards and tried to take off.  Thankfully, I rode bareback so much as a child that as yet ( cross fingers, count to 10) I haven't been unseated. I just speak calmly to him and on we go.

I had a friend ( who owns the land so handles him daily too) ride him  today.  He was actually slightly worse with her which did wonders for my confidence as the dealer has blamed me.  I'm not scared of him, rather I am just a bit irritated at going so far for a pony which is greener than my local dealers.  At least her 6 yr olds have been out and about.

I am going to get some lessons on him, I am also hoping to get the instructor ( who I know well having hacked out loads while I was looking) to come on a hack with me.

I would absolutely NOT sell him as safe.  He would have a child off as he whips round and panics.  I have done some in hand work with him.  He walks over a tarpaulin ( don't pick it up), he walks over wood.  Church bells are OK, men washing cars a definite NO. 

I did have blood taken, its £300 to test though.  I also spoke to the Vet who checked him, he said he thought he was very quiet but didn't obviously appear drugged, it was a senior partner in the firm.  I do wonder if he was ridden hard that morning.  

The dealer who sold him on behalf of the family seems to genuinely care about him and tells me its me and to sing and sit like a sack of spuds but if I am honest and after today with my experienced ( and much taller) friend riding him and him being worse, I actually think I ride him with confidence and pretty calmly.  I wanted a nice hack, with experience and my poor boy isn't that.  I wonder if being totally unhandled for six years has meant he will always be spooky.  He must have walked past the chickens a couple of hundred times but he still get startled if they move when he is being led past.


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## Orca (18 January 2016)

Does he need hard feed at present? I'd be tempted to go back to a forage only diet, so long as he is keeping condition. I know a number of Connies in light work who have plenty of energy and condition on forage alone. 

Your local dealers six year olds might have been out and about more but honestly, two months isn't a very long time and not all horses will have settled in that time. The chances are that one of theirs might have required a lengthy settling in period too.

I don't think a lack of handling will make him eternally spooky but it is important that he has the right handling now, to bring him up to speed. Good luck with him


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## LittleHoundDoggie (18 January 2016)

He is on a small amount of molasses free chaff and a tiny bit of balancer.  Hay and grazing in the daylight hours.  I'm also lunging him. He has lost a little bit of weight so can't not give any food, girth up one hole.  He is such a nice lad in so many ways.  I'm so glad I posted here, thanks so much to everyone.  I'm very open to all and any suggestions to make this work.  I just have to balance the risks as I am my wonderful hubbys carer.  I'm taking him back to the riding school wednesday to use the menage again. He is also excellent in the trailer, walks straight in. 

He is also hard to bridle, I am short and he is full up 14.2 so I have no chance if he sticks his head up.  I am putting a bit of honey on his bit which is helping.  He is only in a happy mouth mullen.


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## Orangehorse (18 January 2016)

Take him off all hard feed.  My 16 hh horse has hay, grass and chaff with minerals.  I don't know if you can face it, but I think you are right that he is much greener than you were led to believe.  It is down to miles on the clock I expect, just keep taking him out, although whether you feel you can do this is the question.

What is he like with Horse Agility type obstacles, in other words groundwork where they learn to cope with puzzles and strange looking things.  Linda Tellington-Jones has written books on how to de-spook, but it all takes time and some help with an interested and helpful assistant.  Can you put spooky things in (safe things, not bikes! or next to his paddock/stable?


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## Clodagh (18 January 2016)

Rescue remedy works on horses as well as people, my sons spooky pony used to have it for pony club, I would give him a squirt or three of that before going out.
He will calm down, it may take time.
I would put him on magnesium, I swear by it, I use MagOx and ad lib hay should put weight on him. (He will still need his unmolassed chaff for the calmer). I would lunge him before you hack him, so he has less energy to spook and give him plenty of work.


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## LittleHoundDoggie (18 January 2016)

Clodagh, I have him on magnesium, sorry forgot to say that.  He is very inquisitive, he will push a wheelbarrow until it falls over and scares him.  He spooked yesterday when a man in a garden lifted his child up to see the horses. Floss ( friends mare) said hello. I didn't ask him to approach but he wanted to and went right up and said hello too. 

I think miles on the clock being needed is spot on....sigh.  My hubs is terminally ill and buying a happy hacker was supposed to give me an outlet. Hubs is also paralysed. I was very honest about what I was looking for and shocked when I found he was more green that I was led to believe. 

I actually feel better knowing he was as bad for my friend. He is in no way being nasty. He is genuinely scared.


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## KittenInTheTree (18 January 2016)

Just a suggestion OP, but some balancers contain alfalfa as a filler, and that can make some horses reactive.


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## Nettle123 (19 January 2016)

He sounds a lovely pony, just sensitive in a new environment. I would push on with lessons and schooling and leave the hacking for the moment until you build up trust in each other. I really think it takes months for a newby to completely settle or at least that has been my experience.

I have a lovely middle aged pony here that came as a happy hacker for me, I knew all her history as she had been with her previous Owner for 10 years. She was a total yob at first, barging, walking through me taking off etc. Her poor Owner was mortified but it soon resolved itself and she is a complete sweetheart now.


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## Clodagh (19 January 2016)

LittleHoundDoggie said:



			Clodagh, I have him on magnesium, sorry forgot to say that.  He is very inquisitive, he will push a wheelbarrow until it falls over and scares him.  He spooked yesterday when a man in a garden lifted his child up to see the horses. Floss ( friends mare) said hello. I didn't ask him to approach but he wanted to and went right up and said hello too. 

I think miles on the clock being needed is spot on....sigh.  My hubs is terminally ill and buying a happy hacker was supposed to give me an outlet. Hubs is also paralysed. I was very honest about what I was looking for and shocked when I found he was more green that I was led to believe. 

I actually feel better knowing he was as bad for my friend. He is in no way being nasty. He is genuinely scared.
		
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I am so very sorry for the situation you are in, with your husbands health to take into consideration as well. So sad for you. I would take him off the balancer as Kaimar suggests - my sons pony was a fruitcake on topspec, for instance. I hope it all works out for you. x


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## LittleHoundDoggie (19 January 2016)

Clodagh, what feed would you give him?  I had him on nothing but hay and grass for two weeks (on vet advice) but he was no different.  Thanks


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## Clodagh (19 January 2016)

Oh... a toughie then. Can you get completely plain, undressed chaff from a feed merchants? It is hard to find, you just want plain chopped straw. I would then put magnesium in that and give him nothing else, no sugary treats (carrots), nothing. I am no feed expert though there may be someone along who knows a lot more than me. 
Could he live out? Is that an option where he is? If you could give him hay in the field.


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## alliwantforchristmas (19 January 2016)

hi, no real advice but can empathise a bit as when I tried my new lad he was literally foot perfect and a dream to ride and i have not felt so safe on anything in a very long time, and very 'quiet' in the yard to be tacked etc. However the seller had told me he was a worrier and sensitive to handle so I was kind of expecting things to fall apart a bit when i got him home.  The first ten days were quite difficult, as he got a bit protective of himself in the stable and took to lunging/biting, but I basically just ignored it, just a quiet 'no' or 'a-ha' because I thought if he got more fearful of me he would bite more, and the biting has all gone now ... no biting for the last two weeks at least.  He is a darling to lead, so we have done lots of inhand walks together for him to see everything and he hasn't put a foot wrong.  He is a 'get on and go' sort of chap at the mounting block so we have worked  on that, and it's much better, and I have done short rides in the school in a bitless bridle which is new to him and he is coping well. I've also led him out bitless. I've spent quite a bit of time just grooming him and hanging out with him, and got him much more comfortable with regards to being touched and groomed, but he still looks worried sometimes, and is headshy (have to take the bridle apart) but that is definitely improving, can now touch all the way up to his forehad and cheeks, whereas previously he'd just throw his head up and move away away if you tried to touch his head at all.  We are still having wobbles - a big one yesterday with the farrier, for example - but he improved even during the short time the farrier took to trim him (no need to shoe here, ride straight onto open mountain) so I am not too worried.  But bear in mind this is a horse I could do literally anything with before I bought him, and after our second ride together I was scratching his chest and he had his neck gently resting on my shoulder with his head over my back pulliing me into him!  So that is a big change in a horse but I do feel he is just worried and unsettled.  I'm definitely not as confident as I used to be after a big break not from owning horses, but from riding them, and i'm sure my lack of confidence feeds back to him, so I just try to not put us in situations where either of us is going to be very scared, just gently stretching comfort zones.  If it means it's a couple of months or even longer before I'm doing the hacks I dream of I don't really care, as I've waited long enough for him so I'm not going to try to rush things now.  I don't have anyone to ride out with and OH is only home occasionally, so it's important to keep both of us as safe as possible. The other thing I have found very useful is Ben Hart's shaping plans, I am working through the one for building trust and confidence with him, to give us something to focus on when I am on my own and don't feel brave enough to ride yet, and it is very satisfying working through the plan logically and meeting a little goal every day, or every couple of days.  I found reading that helpful.  I am sure we will have ups and downs ahead, but I think as long as you like your new horse and see his fears as genuine then that will go a long way to helping him through them


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## alliwantforchristmas (19 January 2016)

I also meant to say, I wonder if the fact that five of you are handling your new horse is making things harder for him - mine worries about every new person he meets and looks to me for 'reassurance' now.  And is everyone handling him consistently?  I think it's hard for horses when some people are 'firm', some ignore it and some may be scared and just try to get through it as best they can.


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## deicinmerlyn (19 January 2016)

He maybe deficient in minerals or have an ulcery gut from the move.  Does he have salt and pre/probiotics? Brewers yeast/Yeasach is cheap and often helps.


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## gunnergundog (19 January 2016)

LittleHoundDoggie said:



			The dealer who sold him on behalf of the family seems to genuinely care about him and tells me its me and to sing and sit like a sack of spuds but if I am honest and after today with my experienced ( and much taller) friend riding him and him being worse, I actually think I ride him with confidence and pretty calmly.
		
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The above is what stands out to me!

To an extent all horses do it, as in they will go differently for a different jockey, however there are also some that take adapting their way of going based on the level of rider skill to the Nth degree.  What I am saying is that some suss out the jockey and if they think the jockey is up to it they go into 'competitive mode' (will jog, shy etc etc) and if they think the jockey isn't then they go into 'dope on a rope mode' in order to look after them.  This could be what the dealer is trying to tell you.

Have you checked the dealer out on facebook on the Dodgy Dealers page?  Ask if anyone knows him/her and if they get good reviews for basically being honest then I would put your experienced friend back on and tell her to ride like a sack of spuds, not knowing anything about horses.  It's worth a try.


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## Orangehorse (19 January 2016)

In your circumstances, I would contact the seller and say that you will give him x time longer (not too long) and if there isn't a significant improvement he will have to go back.  Your husband is dependent upon your care, you cannot risk any mishap, and the seller sounds as though she is concerned for the pony.  In the meantime, would there be a share available that you could ride sometimes?  Even a hunter livery yard, where they go out in a group and the horses are generally pretty well behaved as they are getting lots of work.


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## laura_nash (19 January 2016)

LittleHoundDoggie said:



			He is also hard to bridle, I am short and he is full up 14.2 so I have no chance if he sticks his head up.  I am putting a bit of honey on his bit which is helping.
		
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Has he had his teeth checked?  It could just be a handling issue with the bridling but maybe worth checking, as tooth pain and tension in the poll can make a horse spookier.


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## RhaLoulou (19 January 2016)

Hi I really feel for the situation you are in. I would advise getting lessons and someone experienced to help. 
I got a really good tip on bridling at a seminar the other day, lower the cheek piece a good few holes to make the bridle bigger then fasten it back up when it is back on. My new horse is a little bit difficult to bridle too and this tip has really helped us especially as I short and he is 15:3hh!


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## LittleHoundDoggie (22 January 2016)

laura_nash said:



			Has he had his teeth checked?  It could just be a handling issue with the bridling but maybe worth checking, as tooth pain and tension in the poll can make a horse spookier.
		
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Yes, he has had his teeth checked.  Honey on the bit and patience is working with this issue.  Thanks for your help. Appreciated. xx


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## Pearlsasinger (22 January 2016)

What sort of chaff are you giving?  If it is alfalfa, take him off it!  Many horses react badly to alfalfa and behave wierdly when on it.


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## LittleHoundDoggie (22 January 2016)

Ive tried a couple, I will have a good look at the ingredients, I tried to get the plainest one possible. In my youth, you got just chopped hay!! The yard I was at chopped their own.  He is in no way nasty or trying to get rid of me.  He is scared and very green.  I hacked him out with the YO in a forest and he did jump a couple of times but nothing major.  He literally sees monsters everywhere now.  When he leaps sideways or forwards, I sit quietly and just say "silly boy" or something.  Small breakthrough yesterday, I had had a lesson the day before, in a strange menage but he feels comfortable in a menage so was fine.  Instructor lead him to the gate ( with me onboard) and waited for a large lorry ( four arrived!!).  He was terrified and tried to turn and run but she held on.  When they passed he got a treat and praise.

Hacked through our village in company yesterday, in pub carpark ( didn't stop for drink!!).  HUGE lorry came past and although he was poised to spin and run, he stayed still. I could kiss the lorry driver who went past us at about 5 mph,  massive praise for him especially as he had had a major spook right outside our driveway.

I like him, he is a nice person and I'm not sure I can start looking again and then the bonding with a new horse.  If I thought i could get him right then I would keep him.  

Soooo, if a horse is unhandled until six, can he be brought on and made as bombproof as possible?  I did it aged 11 with a young green pony.  My dad bought him for me as he was going to market.  They were totally non horsey so I had to go it alone.  That was a very long time ago though.


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## Orca (22 January 2016)

LittleHoundDoggie said:



			Ive tried a couple, I will have a good look at the ingredients, I tried to get the plainest one possible. In my youth, you got just chopped hay!! The yard I was at chopped their own.  He is in no way nasty or trying to get rid of me.  He is scared and very green.  I hacked him out with the YO in a forest and he did jump a couple of times but nothing major.  He literally sees monsters everywhere now.  When he leaps sideways or forwards, I sit quietly and just say "silly boy" or something.  Small breakthrough yesterday, I had had a lesson the day before, in a strange menage but he feels comfortable in a menage so was fine.  Instructor lead him to the gate ( with me onboard) and waited for a large lorry ( four arrived!!).  He was terrified and tried to turn and run but she held on.  When they passed he got a treat and praise.

Hacked through our village in company yesterday, in pub carpark ( didn't stop for drink!!).  HUGE lorry came past and although he was poised to spin and run, he stayed still. I could kiss the lorry driver who went past us at about 5 mph,  massive praise for him especially as he had had a major spook right outside our driveway.

I like him, he is a nice person and I'm not sure I can start looking again and then the bonding with a new horse.  If I thought i could get him right then I would keep him.  

Soooo, if a horse is unhandled until six, can he be brought on and made as bombproof as possible?  I did it aged 11 with a young green pony.  My dad bought him for me as he was going to market.  They were totally non horsey so I had to go it alone.  That was a very long time ago though.
		
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My mare was unhandled until six (quite literally, not even halter broken!). Two months ago, she was nervy, flighty and untrusting (although she showed trust in me, which is part of why I bought her). Today we were playing hopscotch through puddles, watching a tractor start right next to us then drive away, walking within metres of a turbine, watching children run and play - all without any shying or threats to bolt (which is what would have happened back when I met her). Yes, if handled appropriately, six year olds (particularly six year olds who are nice people) can overcome their fears because most of these fears really are fears of the unknown. The more they see, the more they are supported though kindly and calmly, the more quickly they evolve into confident individuals.


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## millikins (22 January 2016)

Hi, good luck with your pony, I hope things go well. Just wanted to say we have a Connie who over reacts, have owned him for 9 years now and he hasn't changed, if anything startles him, dangerous sparrow, funny coloured leaf etc he leaps in the air, ready to run but never actually does. He is a great fun hack but not a very relaxing one.


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## alliwantforchristmas (23 January 2016)

"Yes, if handled appropriately, six year olds (particularly six year olds who are nice people) can overcome their fears because most of these fears really are fears of the unknown. The more they see, the more they are supported though kindly and calmly, the more quickly they evolve into confident individuals."
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...or-Me-Advice-please/page4#kA8Icq78cZWs4IDS.99


oh, yes, this, absolutely.  Be kind and calm and advance in small steps.  appreciate his fears are real (what's that saying now ... "the struggle is real ...") and just keep going with slow, gentle exposure, reward with food (if it doesn't make him nippy) or scratches and rest if you are at all worried about using food .. and it is tricky using food with horses for lots of reasons.  Genuinely, and I am in no way linked to him commerically, have a look at Ben Hart on facebook and his shaping plans - they are really good for helping work through spooky behaviour.  In a way you are in a better position than with a lot of six year olds - he has not been knackered/knocked about physically and you are working with a pretty blank canvas.  Enjoy the process and breathe and have fun


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## hayinamanger (23 January 2016)

It sounds like you may have a had a confidence breakthrough after seeing your friend riding him, I hope you get to the other side of him.

The only thing I can add is re the bit, I really don't like Happy Mouths, never had a horse that liked them either, particularly straight bars.

Good luck.


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## JulesRules (23 January 2016)

If you are thinking of trying a different chaff without alfalfa,  can I suggest Mollichaff Calmer in the yellow bag. 

My spooky girl has been a changed character since I swapped her from an alfalfa based chaff


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## SO1 (23 January 2016)

It could just be the move that is unsettling him. I have had my pony for over 8 years he is a good hacking pony, hacked out a lot on my own, moved yards  after 6 years on the same yard.  He changed he became worried about going even down the road 100 yards on his own and when hacking out wanted to be at the back. He also would start neighing if he got a bit left behind or got very strong desperate to catch up with horse in front. This was not his normal behaviour at all. It has taken nearly a year but he is now getting back to his normal confident self a couple of rides now he has been in front most of the way and I have been able to take him out on some shorter rides on his own as well. For him it was just getting to know the new rides and now he is more familiar with them he is confident again. 

I do think people underestimate the effect moves can have on horses, having to get to know new field mates and also new rides without knowing how to get home again can be quite scary for them. They after all herd animals so being away from their normal herd mates and in a strange place could make them more alert and anxious.


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## hairycob (24 January 2016)

Have you tried getting a very confident friend/instructor to hack him out. If he is ok with them the chances are you are getting nervous & he is picking up on it making him more nervous. You may even find if that is the case that knowing makes you less nervous.


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## Clodagh (24 January 2016)

hairycob said:



			Have you tried getting a very confident friend/instructor to hack him out. If he is ok with them the chances are you are getting nervous & he is picking up on it making him more nervous. You may even find if that is the case that knowing makes you less nervous.
		
Click to expand...

OP has tried that - he was worse!


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## JDH01 (7 February 2016)

Sorry to hear you are finding what is supposed to be relaxing you so difficult when you have so much on your plate already.  If it is any consolation even horses sold absolutely as seen can take months to settle, test you and even as an experienced owner make you wonder what you have bought.  If you can and home allows keep going, it will be worth it.


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## old hand (7 February 2016)

I had a very bombproof horse that turned into a shying demon on Alfa A, stopped it and four days later he was plodding round on the buckle again.  He took to galloping sideways up the road and leaping out of his skin at everything on Alpha A. Just didn't agree with him.


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## Michen (8 February 2016)

OP try the Hilton herbs supplement calm and collected. It has valerian in it (not compeition legal) and I had good results with it in the past.


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## luckyoldme (8 February 2016)

With my gelding i just took baby steps. Riding him has proved a risky business so i turned him away. I brought him in every day for a small feed a brush and a fuss and turned him out. I then decided the bridle issue needed sorted so concentrated on that. For a couple of weeks i just put the bridle on and walked him round the farm. Next to sort was the saddle, he would kick out while tightening the girth, so i made a big show of running my fingers underneath it to make sure he wasn t nipped. After a couple of weeks just in hand when i felt we were communicating well i moved onto lunging him in the school, and eventually got back on. I would just ride him round and had a few arguments with him about where he would and would nt go. Eventually i went back out on him again, the first thing i did was show him all the ways out and then turned and went home. As time progressed we eventually went on longer hacks. I thought i was the bees knees training my horse, but looking back he was just learning to trust me.The more i handled him the more confidence i got. I did use an australian stock saddle so i could sit the bucks and that was a great help. He is nearing full retirement now but he has been perfect for me. To this day he hates any changes in his routine and can give the impression he is a monster, but will settle quickly for anyone he knows. Im sure some horses are very sensative to change, some worse than others. i had some pretty bad days in the beginning when i really really detested him . i had waited 30 years dreaming of owning a horse and ended up with a bloody nightmare. thankfully he has turned out to be perfect for what i wanted .


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## DuckToller (9 February 2016)

I bought a little welsh sec A years ago.  He completely went to pieces on me, and was so bad I turned him away and daughter went back to her old pony.  

I got his last but one owner to come to see him and she was surprised at how spooky and genuinely terrified he was - anything would set him off including the noise of the manage surface!  She said she didn't remember him being so spooky, but whether she had forgotten, or something had happened at the next home, or whether it was just the change of home, I will never know.  In desperation I left him in the field for 3 months and then paid an older teenager to ride him. Eventually he calmed down enough for my daughter, but he was always spooky and it was genuine fear, not naughtiness.

I often semi-joke that he had an equine nervous breakdown when he came to us - he just couldn't cope with a new home.  He was never the pony my daughter wanted, but he did become a firm favourite with other children as he became older and wiser - he never bucked or bolted, and would canter beautifully round a 20 acre field with a child on board, but he would then spook at a sparrow in the hedge and the child would be sat on the floor wondering what happened.  I couldn't sell him as I felt he would go to pieces again, but eventually I ran out of jockeys for him and let him go on loan, with his best friend on loan too, to ease him into the new environment.  And he has coped brilliantly but he is now of course quite elderly.  

He always took a large part of his confidence from the rider - a larger rider with long legs made him feel safe and controlled, whereas a little dot balanced on top terrified him at first - he was only 12.1 so should have been used to little riders but in fact both his previous riders were tall long-legged types so maybe my daughter just didn't give him the warm leg hug that he needed to feel safe. 

If you don't want to part with him, maybe give yourself a break and try again with him once the weather has warmed up - this is the worst time of year to be riding a new horse, and as others have said, you have other priorities.


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## Starbuck (11 February 2016)

I bought a horse, no vices, reasonable coat, lazy in the school. Told he was  a great hack.  Beautiful nature. Got him home and he was exceptionally behaved in the school, although seemed to have a slightly odd action on one side. Spooky as hell out hacking and it got worse- jolted me every which way.

I asked my old vet to take a look and he said although the obvious signs are not present, I suspect an ulcer (he hadn't had a lot of grass or turnout) . Had him scoped and it turned out he had some pretty horrible grade 3 ulcers. The spooking was  response to pain and some had bled.

He had treatment off the vet and turned into the best, safest hack. He would go past any traffic, wouldn't shy at leaves, plastic bags etc. In fact he ended up better hacking alone rather than in company. Safest horse I had ever hacked out on. Just a thought and something to check if you keep this little fella.


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