# Shocking Upsetting News from Crufts



## happyclappy (8 March 2015)

I have been informed by fellow Irish Setter owners of some shocking and proven news from Crufts.

An Irish Setter left on his bench on Thursday was deliberately poisoned and soon died a painful death. How horrendous. Was it spite or jealousy maybe? Who knows, but what a dreadful thing for someone to do.

Please, all showing people, NEVER, for even a moment, leave your dog unattended at any show.

One of My Irish Setters daughters got placed, Happy me.


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## Princess16 (8 March 2015)

I have just read this - truly heartbreaking :-(


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## {97702} (8 March 2015)

Sadly not the first time and it won't be the last


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## EquiEquestrian556 (8 March 2015)

How very upsetting. Poor dog  Why would you do such a thing!?


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## galaxy (8 March 2015)

It's so terrible. I heard this morning. 

I don't show my dog, but what's been going through my mind is why would anyone ever leave a dog unattended???? It's not just poisoning but the risk of theft also. I just can't comprehend it.


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## {97702} (8 March 2015)

Having been to many, many dog shows in my lifetime, it is easy to do - you chat to friends, you go to another bench to have a coffee/drink, you don't always think about it   with small breeds it is easier, you can have them in crates next to the ring or even have them on your knee, with larger breeds you can't do this


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## Cinnamontoast (8 March 2015)

That's horrific. Who could be so nasty?


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## Pinkvboots (8 March 2015)

What a really horrible thing to do poor dog and poor owner.


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## npage123 (8 March 2015)

Another horrible example of the human species being more cruel than any other living creature.  

How pathetic that someone can convince themselves that this course of action is a clever idea.


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## Amymay (8 March 2015)

Two dogs have actually died, with a third in hospital.


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## Dobiegirl (8 March 2015)

It is truly horrendous, have watched the interview tonight with Claire Balding and Caroline kisco of the kennel club and Janette someone and they both said they dont want to stop the public having hands on the dogs. Why not? isnt that what discover dogs is all about, where the general public get to discuss the various breeds with the owners and stroke or pet the dogs.

Imagine a race meeting where the general public were allowed around the stables.


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## SadKen (8 March 2015)

Whoever did that is an absolute disgrace.

I hope they are caught, prosecuted, banned from breeding or keeping dogs, and have any historic show titles removed. I doubt it'll happen though.


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## {97702} (8 March 2015)

Dobiegirl said:



			It is truly horrendous, have watched the interview tonight with Claire Balding and Caroline kisco of the kennel club and Janette someone and they both said they dont want to stop the public having hands on the dogs. Why not? isnt that what discover dogs is all about, where the general public get to discuss the various breeds with the owners and stroke or pet the dogs.

Imagine a race meeting where the general public were allowed around the stables.
		
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Typical Kennel Club reaction......sod the exhibitors, popularise the activity.....


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## galaxy (8 March 2015)

I just wrote public should be banned from benches on a fb page and some people got upset! I replied as much as I'd love to go into the stables at olympia to meet valegro somehow his security had to come first!!!

It must be horrible for the dogs to have their owners leave them in a strange place and total strangers approach them!!


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## YasandCrystal (8 March 2015)

The world of dog showing sounds truly horrendous having spoken on numerous occasions with a friend who shows prolifically. I thought the horse showing world was bad enough but not a patch on dogs.


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## jasmine (8 March 2015)

Can't post the link on here, but on fb just shared a clip from best in show and a nutter jumped into the ring with a placard something about "hate Crufts" :-( wonder if it's connected?


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## numptynoelle (8 March 2015)

jasmine said:



			Can't post the link on here, but on fb just shared a clip from best in show and a nutter jumped into the ring with a placard something about "hate Crufts" :-( wonder if it's connected?
		
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Blackcob posted this link earlier that shows the protester: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205341923580518&set=vb.1621252234&type=2&theater


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## twiggy2 (8 March 2015)

I fail to see why anyone leaves their dog unattended when benched..I would not leave a horse unattended at a show either.
I also fail to see how winning a class/show is important enough to poison dogs for..


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## Exploding Chestnuts (8 March 2015)

I went to only one dog show, an exhibitor left puppies in car to die in the heat, another said, "that's quite a loss, they were by ""  "", the RSPCA spent some time asking for owner to come to car instead of breaking the window, I am not sure if they were dead by then.
I like dogs, but I think showing and breeding is not something I would like to be involved in.


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## Lucyloo25 (8 March 2015)

Such a horrible thing to happen, cannot imagine how his owners and those connected feel!
The lady who we brought my dogs from previously used to show at Crufts and she always said if you go alone, sometimes you have no option but to leave them unattended e.g. bathroom breaks, nipping to get food etc! 
I hope they find out who did it and take every title etc off them! Appauling behaviour - I've never heard of anything like this happen before, I hope it isn't a common thing?


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## Alec Swan (9 March 2015)

It seems that with so many differing and in part opposing reports,  including on the national news sites,  that what actually happened is really not clear.  Last night the BBC News report said that the Irish Setter which died,  did so whilst at home and some while after the dog show itself.  Was it not two days after returning home?  They also mentioned that beef had been found in the dog's stomach,  and that the owner stated that she only ever fed the dog chicken,  the inference being that it was beef which had killed the dog!

If the dog did in fact succumb two days after the show and from poison,  then I'd think it highly unlikely that the offending poison was ingested whilst at Crufts.  When dogs are poisoned,  then the effects tend to be almost immediate,  with a progressive and downhill sickness.

With so many conflicting reports,  and with speculation being the only current certainty,  it would surprise me,  assuming that the dog did in fact take in poison,  if the event happened whilst at Crufts.  With the ability of most dogs to scavenge,  it's also quite possible that there was no human intent to kill the animal and that the animal's death was simply an accident,  with accusations being laid in an effort to deflect from the reality and to seek out someone to blame.  Apart from the fact that a dog has died,  there's little else which is clear or obvious,  and I suspect that there never will be.  

Alec.


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## twiggy2 (9 March 2015)

Lucyloo25 said:



			Such a horrible thing to happen, cannot imagine how his owners and those connected feel!
The lady who we brought my dogs from previously used to show at Crufts and she always said if you go alone, sometimes you have no option but to leave them unattended e.g. bathroom breaks, nipping to get food etc! 
I hope they find out who did it and take every title etc off them! Appauling behaviour - I've never heard of anything like this happen before, I hope it isn't a common thing? 

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you just ask your neighbouring exibitor to watch over your dog whilst you nip to the loo, most exibitors know each other and although there are some unfriendly people within dog showing most of them get on fine


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## galaxy (9 March 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			It seems that with so many differing and in part opposing reports,  including on the national news sites,  that what actually happened is really not clear.  Last night the BBC News report said that the Irish Setter which died,  did so whilst at home and some while after the dog show itself.  Was it not two days after returning home?  They also mentioned that beef had been found in the dog's stomach,  and that the owner stated that she only ever fed the dog chicken,  the inference being that it was beef which had killed the dog!

If the dog did in fact succumb two days after the show and from poison,  then I'd think it highly unlikely that the offending poison was ingested whilst at Crufts.  When dogs are poisoned,  then the effects tend to be almost immediate,  with a progressive and downhill sickness.

With so many conflicting reports,  and with speculation being the only current certainty,  it would surprise me,  assuming that the dog did in fact take in poison,  if the event happened whilst at Crufts.  With the ability of most dogs to scavenge,  it's also quite possible that there was no human intent to kill the animal and that the animal's death was simply an accident,  with accusations being laid in an effort to deflect from the reality and to seek out someone to blame.  Apart from the fact that a dog has died,  there's little else which is clear or obvious,  and I suspect that there never will be.  

Alec.
		
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They know what poisons were used and they are slow acting ones. It is their vet that had said that they were likely administered Thursday morning.  Toxicology should be back today which will give definite answers.


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## Alec Swan (9 March 2015)

galaxy said:



			They know what poisons were used and they are slow acting ones. It is their vet that had said that they were likely administered Thursday morning.  Toxicology should be back today which will give definite answers.
		
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I'd be a bit surprised that the investigating Vet gave the view that they 'knew' which poisons had been used,  prior to the release of a toxicology report,  but that said,  the postmortem report will presumably shed more light on what's happened.  

I've had PMs done on ewes and lambs,  some reaching the State Veterinary Service,  whilst still alive,  and have never yet had a conclusive statement!  Despite modern research being as advanced as it often seems to be,  clear statements of fact are rare,  with 'probabilities' being the best on offer.  As you say though,  we'll wait and see!

Alec.


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## Gowlane Bluebell (9 March 2015)

PETA!!

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail...m-people-for-the-ethical-news-photo/465599130

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205341923580518&set=vb.1621252234&type=2&theater


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## MurphysMinder (9 March 2015)

PETA are idiots!  Wonder if they would have dashed up to the podium like that if the GSD had been Best in Show.  
It is terrible that the setter has died, but like Alec I am a little surprised the poisons seem to have taken so long to act.   I know of dogs who have been nobbled at shows (yes there are some morons about) but in each case a sedative has been administered with very fast effect, and the aim has obviously been just to stop the dog being shown that day rather than to kill,  not that I am suggesting that makes it ok.


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## jumbyjack (9 March 2015)

Would keeping the public out of the benches prevent such a tragedy, could just as easily been another competitor.


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## galaxy (9 March 2015)

https://www.facebook.com/Dee.Milligan.Bott/posts/10206254601354626

Hope that works. It is a statement from the owners of the dog released yesterday morning.


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## {97702} (9 March 2015)

Even heard one of the co-owners interviewed on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning!  Not sure why this has hit the headlines more than other similar cases, I suppose it is the way the owners have been all over social media about it.

It is appalling, but I would never, ever leave my dog unattended at any kind of show or event...


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## Penny Less (9 March 2015)

The rep from the kennel club on TV seemed to blame the owners for leaving the dog alone at the benching area. 
Some people seem to think other dog owners wouldn't stoop so low as to poison a dog,... really !  This is a top dog show, and racehorses don't get doped or otherwise nobbled either  do they .    If it is proved that some sort of poison or chemical was to blame, perhaps the person who did it meant only to drug or make the dog ill.    
Terrible thing for the owners and the  poor dog


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## ester (9 March 2015)

I think people are mad to leave their dogs where just anyone can walk by, it isn't really any different to just leaving them outside tesco, even if you were on your own and needed to pee I'd think you'd ask a neighbour to keep an eye. 
Presumably if the person giving the meat knew how long the poison would take they weren't trying to 'nobble' him. I don't know how long it would normally take dogs to digest 'cubes' of meat though? - if they were still in the stomach and the poison was stitched in how had it been released, presumably enough had been. I think it is a bit confusing at the mo.


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## ribbons (9 March 2015)

ester said:



			I think people are mad to leave their dogs where just anyone can walk by, it isn't really any different to just leaving them outside tesco, even if you were on your own and needed to pee I'd think you'd ask a neighbour to keep an eye. 
Presumably if the person giving the meat knew how long the poison would take they weren't trying to 'nobble' him. I don't know how long it would normally take dogs to digest 'cubes' of meat though? - if they were still in the stomach and the poison was stitched in how had it been released, presumably enough had been. I think it is a bit confusing at the mo.
		
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Yes I agree, somewhat confusing.

I have heard the vet confirmed cubes of beef in the stomach and owner only fed chicken. 
Now as I understand it, the acids in a dogs digestive system are 3 or 4 times stronger than ours, and the whole process is very quick, which is why dogs can eat rancid meat etc without problem as its digested before it causes illness. After around 8 hours food is broken down and moves to small intestine. 
So whilst traces of beef being found makes sense, cubes of beef 24+hours after the dog left the NEC sounds highly unlikely to me. 
In fact I heard one report that the dog left on thurs and died on Saturday. 

So many differing statements, I wonder if we'll ever hear the correct facts.


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## MurphysMinder (9 March 2015)

I had the same thought re food being digested.  Gundog day was the Thursday and yes I think it was Saturday when the dog died, so find it hard to see how food was left in the stomach.


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## Toffee44 (9 March 2015)

I am waiting for the full autopsy and toxicology report, a dog that happened to be at crufts has been poisoned, unfortunately dogs get poisoned a lot  

My thoughts are just because he has been to crufts doesn't mean it happened there, I too believe that for it to be found in the dogs stomach it mist have been fed hours before death not a day. 

Either way though, poor dog


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## ribbons (9 March 2015)

Just heard 6 more possible poisonings are being investigated.


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## Zero00000 (9 March 2015)

That's what BBC news has said


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## MurphysMinder (9 March 2015)

Call me a cynic but I do wonder if these latter cases are just a case of dogs with upset tummies.  Which actually is also quite worrying, if any sort of enteritis bug was around at a show like Crufts.


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## MurphysMinder (9 March 2015)

Just seen this on KC facebook page.  Not that I believe everything the KC say!

The facts surrounding Jagger&#8217;s sad death are still being established and we must stress that any other unsubstantiated rumours about dogs being poisoned are just that at this point. There are any number of reasons why a dog may display symptoms such as sickness and should a dog fall sick there are vets at the show who will examine the dog in question and file a report. We can confirm that no vets have raised concerns about poisoning and there have been no official complaints from any owners at Crufts 2015.
We are aware that there are reports in the press regarding a number of breeds. If you have any information we urge you to come forward to report the matter as soon as possible by emailing press.office@thekennelclub.org.uk


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## ribbons (9 March 2015)

So many differing stories going around. The media don't help, releasing things as if they are fact rather than hear say. I doubt we will ever hear what really happened. 
Personally, I'm beginning to wonder if there is more to all this than the obvious.


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## PucciNPoni (9 March 2015)

there have been numerous cases of sickness and tummy bugs in dogs in and around my area  - many dogs have been hospitalised where I work in the past month or so - I'm willing to bet that some of these "suspected poisonings" are just this.  One woman I know had to withdraw on the day she was due to leave to go down as her wee bitch was ill.  These things do happen. 

The story about Jagger I'd heard early Sunday morning, the co owner of my bitch messaged me in a panic saying "make sure you don't leave alone for a minute, shake out the bed when you get back from the ring".  Not that I'd planned to leave my bitch unattended but wouldn't have thought someone would booby trap the dog's crate while I was away - but you never know.  

There are many stories going around, and fortunately many of them will be Chinese whispers.  But this poor Jagger - hopefully we'll find out what really happened.


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## Alec Swan (10 March 2015)

ribbons said:



			Yes I agree, somewhat confusing.

&#8230;&#8230;.. as I understand it, the acids in a dogs digestive system are 3 or 4 times stronger than ours, and the whole process is very quick, which is why dogs can eat rancid meat etc without problem as its digested before it causes illness. After around 8 hours food is broken down and moves to small intestine. 
So whilst traces of beef being found makes sense, cubes of beef 24+hours after the dog left the NEC sounds highly unlikely to me. 

&#8230;&#8230;...
		
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My argument from the outset is that there have been so many anomalies and highly doubtful claims,  that with what appears to be at best a deal of confusion,  the veracity of the claims,  even from the direct FB quotes,  puts the whole question as to the dog being fed poison,  WHILST at the NEC as highly unlikely,  if not impossible.

If the owner's claims which they support with quotes from their Vet,  prove to be without foundation,  then the probability of a corrective statement will be unlikely.  That's the way of the world,  I'm afraid to say.  Rarely in such instances,  when false claims are made,  does the claimant then stand up and say "Oops,  sorry,  we were wrong in our previous assertions"?  'Rarely',  is the answer! 

I'm no fan of Crufts or The Kennel Club,  but they are both essentially British,  they are Institutions,  and the claims made,  from the likely evidence available,  are currently unjustified.

Regarding the suggested toxicology report,  does anyone know how long it generally takes for them to be completed?  Without such a report,  supported by a qualified veterinary postmortem,  the claims made must be open to doubt.

Alec.


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## twiggy2 (10 March 2015)

Penny Less said:



			Some people seem to think other dog owners wouldn't stoop so low as to poison a dog,... really !  This is a top dog show, and racehorses don't get doped or otherwise nobbled either  do they
		
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I am not saying it would never happen but apart from the rare person within dog showing there is actually a lot of support amongst exhibitors, and dog showing does not attract the same level of gambling as horse racing and it does appear to be the gambling that motivates most 'interference' in horse racing.


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## MurphysMinder (10 March 2015)

This is a quote from vet Steve Leonard regarding Jagger.

"Obviously they have found a foreign substance in the dog's stomach," he said.

Human forensic techniques would probably be used to establish what the substance was, he said, as such testing went beyond what vets would normally deal with.

"Your heart goes out to the poor owner and what they must be going through," he said."


So it seems likely it will be a while before the full results are revealed.


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## MurphysMinder (11 March 2015)

Okay, so this is the Daily Fail, but interesting quote from the vet who did the post mortem.  



&#8216;We feel his death was very acute - it was something that happened quite urgently, quite quickly.
&#8216;I have my doubts about the story from Crufts.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ll-suddenly-probably-ate-toxins-way-show.html


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## ribbons (11 March 2015)

Yes, I heard on the news that the vet who did the pm had said it was very unlikely anything administered had been at crufts.


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## MurphysMinder (16 March 2015)

Latest statement from the KC regarding poor Jagger.  

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/pre...h/kennel-club-statement-about-jagger's-death/


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## {97702} (16 March 2015)

MurphysMinder said:



			Latest statement from the KC regarding poor Jagger.  

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/pre...h/kennel-club-statement-about-jagger's-death/

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Unsurprising.  Poor dog


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## ester (16 March 2015)

Yes I did seem the most likely given the time lines am not sure why the owners were so quick to blame crafts?


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## Alec Swan (16 March 2015)

MurphysMinder said:



			Latest statement from the KC regarding poor Jagger.  

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/pre...h/kennel-club-statement-about-jagger's-death/

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Thanks for that,  M_M.  I wonder if the owners of the dog in question have retracted their claim that a slow acting poison was responsible and ingested at Crufts,  as they claimed that their Vets had stated.

We would all have sympathy with the owners over the loss of their dog,  but false claims should be adjusted by them.

Alec.


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## Bosworth (16 March 2015)

I agree Alex, and the other 6 owners who jumped on the band wagon and claimed their dogs had also been poisoned at crufts. Would appear to be their way of claiming their 5 mins of fame


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## PucciNPoni (17 March 2015)

Bosworth said:



			I agree Alex, and the other 6 owners who jumped on the band wagon and claimed their dogs had also been poisoned at crufts. Would appear to be their way of claiming their 5 mins of fame
		
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either that or bad cases of gastroenteritis that sent people in to a panic!   

there have been lots of cases of it in my area before Crufts starte, and I know of a bitch that never went down because she was ill.  So that's my theory.


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## MurphysMinder (17 March 2015)

I agree PnP, I think its more likely to have been gastroenteritis.  Dogs were at Crufts from all over the world, heaven knows how many new bugs were brought in.


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## ribbons (17 March 2015)

I don't know enough about poison to know how long it would be detectable in the system, but it was the undigested cubes of beef that rang alarm bells for me.

The cynic wonders about jagger's insurance.


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## Alec Swan (17 March 2015)

MurphysMinder said:



			&#8230;&#8230;...  Dogs were at Crufts from all over the world, heaven knows how many new bugs were brought in.
		
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You've raised another valid point.  With dogs being brought in,  and possibly carrying disease and in a variety of strains which would be unknown here,  Crufts must be a hot-house for infection,  I'd have thought.

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (17 March 2015)

ribbons said:



			I don't know enough about poison to know how long it would be detectable in the system, but it was the undigested cubes of beef that rang alarm bells for me.

&#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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Were the poison ingested of a fast acting type,  as the Vet's reports now seem to suggest,  then for the beef to remain,  in an undigested state,  then death would have followed the ingestion,  rapidly and within hours,  not days.

Alec.


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## PucciNPoni (17 March 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			You've raised another valid point.  With dogs being brought in,  and possibly carrying disease and in a variety of strains which would be unknown here,  Crufts must be a hot-house for infection,  I'd have thought.

Alec.
		
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I thought though that with fairly tight DEFRA regulations that it'd be a bit more difficult to get dogs in through without health certificates?  Flea and worm protocol?  vaccinations up to date?  

Personally I don't worry desperately about it.  Yes we expose our dogs to stuff but then how much do we expose to them without ever leaving our usual patch?  Dogs and wild life can carry disease from outwith to our usual walking areas. 

As I said before, GI problems were RIFE in my area, several dogs hospitalised and on drips for days.   And we've seen the odd case of Parvo too.  And that was before Crufts.


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## {97702} (17 March 2015)

My lot got kennel cough a few years ago, without ever having come into contact with another dog!  I was astonished, but it happens - any dog show is a potential hot bed of germs, it doesn't have to be Crufts, exhibitors compete internationally all the time, it is just that the general public only seems to know Crufts


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## PucciNPoni (17 March 2015)

Lévrier;12852112 said:
			
		


			My lot got kennel cough a few years ago, without ever having come into contact with another dog!  I was astonished, but it happens - any dog show is a potential hot bed of germs, it doesn't have to be Crufts, exhibitors compete internationally all the time, it is just that the general public only seems to know Crufts 

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Yes, and people travel with their dogs too, just for holidays or whatever.  So it's very easy for bugs to be passed on.


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