# Cheaper alternative to Baileys No.4 topline conditioning cubes........



## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

Hi there guys,

My 16yr old 17.2 tb is on 

Alfalfa A oil 1xstubbs scoop twice a day
Baileys No.4 topline conditioning cubes 1xstubbs scoop twice a day
Baileys outshine. Small cup full twice a day

Ad lib hay
Fast fibre at night 1xstubbs scoop
Badmington nuts in treat ball 1xstubbs scoop

He is a very poor doer and struggles to keep weight on. He is looking pretty ribby despite my efforts (his current feeding regime is recommended by nutrionist....baileys of course hmmmmm! she came out amd saw him etc!) The vet said its all a mixture of age/breed and size....typical that I fell in love with an awkward one!!

Anyway guys,he's costing me a bomb....can anyone suggest a cheaper alternative to the No.4 topline cubes? He's getting through a bag in 6days and at this rate these alone will cost me almost £60 a month just on the flipping no.4! If there is no alternative I'm going to change the No.4 to rowen and barbury ready mash extra as it lasted us ages and he was doing good on it.

Ideas?


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## posie_honey (20 January 2013)

ok - here's my thoughts

swap outshine for micronised linseed - that will immediatly save you a LOT

whats the prupose of the fast fibre and badmintons nuts? they are just fibre that he will get from the hay anyway? i'd take them out (fast fibre is v v low cal so really wont help a poor do'er!)

if you did want to feed him something extra at night to keep him amused then maybe calm and condition instead as its higher nutritional value.

then i must admit that i dont rate many things over baileys No.4 - its what i use  - she gets a scopp twice a day - with half a scoop of tops spec conditioning flakes twice a day when she;s in work (too much starch/protein for her if shes not in work - she gest puffy legs then!)

ETA - if you do swap then you may need to add a balancer if the barberry's ready mash is not fortified - the No.4 and fast fibre (or calm and condition if you choose to swap to taht) is so he'll be gettting all he needs at the mo from them


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## Marydoll (20 January 2013)

I would try keep on the no4 as its one of the best imo and drop out the outshine for just some vegetable oil or micronised linseed. Id also just use a decent high fibre cube at night in the treat ball.


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## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

At £60 a month for the cubes alone I'm not sure i can afford it though. I'm researching on the micronised linseed now. Lottery tickets have gone up now too so I'm truely ******ed lol x.


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## Marydoll (20 January 2013)

What you save on the outshine by supplementing oil will surely cover the number 4 wont it ?


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## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

posie_honey said:



			ok - here's my thoughts

swap outshine for micronised linseed - that will immediatly save you a LOT

whats the prupose of the fast fibre and badmintons nuts? they are just fibre that he will get from the hay anyway? i'd take them out (fast fibre is v v low cal so really wont help a poor do'er!)

if you did want to feed him something extra at night to keep him amused then maybe calm and condition instead as its higher nutritional value.

then i must admit that i dont rate many things over baileys No.4 - its what i use  - she gets a scopp twice a day - with half a scoop of tops spec conditioning flakes twice a day when she;s in work (too much starch/protein for her if shes not in work - she gest puffy legs then!)

ETA - if you do swap then you may need to add a balancer if the barberry's ready mash is not fortified - the No.4 and fast fibre (or calm and condition if you choose to swap to taht) is so he'll be gettting all he needs at the mo from them
		
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The Rowan and Barbury mash has all the essential nutrients and vitamins and can be used as a sole feed so I should be ok without the balancer. I just can't afford to get through a bag every 6days.....I would be spending more on his weekly shop than mine lol.

I feed the badmington nuts as a weight gaining boredom buster.....and the fast fibre because someone recommended it may help with his weight.

X


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## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

Marydoll said:



			What you save on the outshine by supplementing oil will surely cover the number 4 wont it ?
		
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By the time I've bought the linseed instrad of the outshine I'll have only saved £10. Everyone on here seems to rate the no.4...maybe I shall have to find another way to claw back some funds so I can fuel the £60pm no.4 bill!


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## Marydoll (20 January 2013)

I think theyre great tbh, my old mare had a stroke and lost a huge amount of weight to the extent she wouldve been put down on welfare grounds if she hadnt started to eat again, it was sugarbeet and Baileys 4 with outshine and alfa A that got her back, she also had haleys just grass with sugarbeet mixed in a big tub and within weeks she was looking great again, that was 2 yrs ago and shes still running up the field bucking and carrying on


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## thatsmygirl (20 January 2013)

Baileys no 4 are really good but I cut them out due to price on one of mine and replaced with " equimins advance complete" fab fab stuff and iv now got a tubby boy. Wouldn't dare take him of it and now after an expensive winter last year when he wouldn't put weight on he's on very little food now with his equimins and I'm really pleased. Micro linseed is v good and a bag will last a long time.


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## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

Marydoll said:



			I think theyre great tbh, my old mare had a stroke and lost a huge amount of weight to the extent she wouldve been put down on welfare grounds if she hadnt started to eat again, it was sugarbeet and Baileys 4 with outshine and alfa A that got her back, she also had haleys just grass with sugarbeet mixed in a big tub and within weeks she was looking great again, that was 2 yrs ago and shes still running up the field bucking and carrying on 

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Wow, what a recovery!! Looks like my boy might have to have thinner beds and I'll buy a bag less of shavings a week lol (he already has thermal matting lol). I'll knock the fast fibre on the head and that will save £18 a week. I don't mind the badmington cubes as they work out quite cheap as a treat.....and my god, he can really cause mischief when he's bored lol! Bring on the summer and bring back the grass. I suppose I shouldn't mind paying when I have people telling me the stuff is awesome. Money well spent..... X


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## xspiralx (20 January 2013)

I've been told (by a reputable source) that the Bailey's Racehorse cubes and Bailey's Polo cubes are the same thing as the conditioning cubes, but are both cheaper to buy. Polo cubes are around a tenner a bag I think.

What about adding Speedi-beet - I believe it is higher calorie than Fast Fibre, though could be wrong on that...


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## thatsmygirl (20 January 2013)

Thinking about it isn't baileys no 4 based on barley? If so could u try stright barley which is miles cheaper


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## 1Lucie (20 January 2013)

Last winter my boy dropped in weight. I put him on no 4 and I have to say I didn't find it worked that well. I tried for about a month.


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## Northern Hare (20 January 2013)

Hi, I agree with other posters about No. 4 - it is great for putting on condition. However, my horse decided last year that he didn't like it any more after having eaten it happily for several years.  He is a 20 yo tb x hann and difficult to keep the condition on during the winter. I tried everything to persuade him to eat them, tried a new bag, soaked them etc, but he still turned up his nose at them.

He is now on the following and is looking better than ever this winter:

- feed merchant's own brand veteran mix (1 Stubbs scoop twice a day) £9 /bag,
- half a cup of vegetable oil once a day,
- half a scoop of kwikbeet sugarbeet twice a day,
- equine answers 365 complete supplement x 2 measures per day (this acts as a conditioner but I have found it is much cheaper than buying blue chip etc)


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## ellie11987 (20 January 2013)

Chellery1 said:



			Alfalfa A oil 1xstubbs scoop twice a day
Baileys No.4 topline conditioning cubes 1xstubbs scoop twice a day
Baileys outshine. Small cup full twice a day

Ad lib hay
Fast fibre at night 1xstubbs scoop
Badmington nuts in treat ball 1xstubbs scoop

Anyway guys,he's costing me a bomb....can anyone suggest a cheaper alternative to the No.4 topline cubes? He's getting through a bag in 6days and at this rate these alone will cost me almost £60 a month just on the flipping no.4! If there is no alternative I'm going to change the No.4 to rowen and barbury ready mash extra as it lasted us ages and he was doing good on it.
		
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My thoughts for cost effective... knock the fast fibre on the head, not enough calories in there, wasting your money. Swap outshine for micronised linseed, much cheaper. Keep the no.4 but reduce the rations and add speedibeet. I don't personally feed chaff because of the volume you need to feed to get the calories, essentially all it is is chopped hay and straw  grass nuts/readigrass, copra, cool condition cubes are all good too. There's been some good reviews with ready mash extra, maybe that or speedibeet along with the cubes and linseed? Change from hay to haylage if possible, you should notice a difference by doing this.  Make sure he is rugged up well too. Good luck


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## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

ellie11987 said:



			My thoughts for cost effective... knock the fast fibre on the head, not enough calories in there, wasting your money. Swap outshine for micronised linseed, much cheaper. Keep the no.4 but reduce the rations and add speedibeet. I don't personally feed chaff because of the volume you need to feed to get the calories, essentially all it is is chopped hay and straw  grass nuts/readigrass, copra, cool condition cubes are all good too. There's been some good reviews with ready mash extra, maybe that or speedibeet along with the cubes and linseed? Change from hay to haylage if possible, you should notice a difference by doing this.  Make sure he is rugged up well too. Good luck 

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Righty, 

The fast fibre is going once this bag is used up so that will save abit and I'm defo going to switch over to the micronised linseed after this bag of outshine is gone.

I'm considering doing a 50/50 mix with the no.4 and ready mash extra.....in order to make the no.4 go further! I shall have to check that will work out and not of load him with one thing or another. 

He can't have haylage as he gets extremely wired on the sugar and ends up loosing weight by being stressy and fretting etc. He's a right silly sausage sometimes x


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## ellie11987 (20 January 2013)

Chellery1 said:



			Righty, 

The fast fibre is going once this bag is used up so that will save abit and I'm defo going to switch over to the micronised linseed after this bag of outshine is gone.

I'm considering doing a 50/50 mix with the no.4 and ready mash extra.....in order to make the no.4 go further! I shall have to check that will work out and not of load him with one thing or another. 

He can't have haylage as he gets extremely wired on the sugar and ends up loosing weight by being stressy and fretting etc. He's a right silly sausage sometimes x
		
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Sound like a good plan to me! Re the haylage: There's always one! haha good luck x


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## travelmad (20 January 2013)

Baileys race horse cubes, it's the same ingredients as conditioning cubes and a lot cheaper. Nutritionist who used to work for them advised me about this and have heard other people say it too.

Also I would stop feeding outshine as it's ridiculously expensive. It's oil based so just feed a cup or 2 of oil instead. Probably cheaper to buy huge bottles of oil in supermarket and give him a cup of that instead - you would get about 6 litres for £6 (my vet has told me not to bother with linseed just use any kind of cheap vegetable oil).

Ditch alfa a oil for alfa a (about £2 a bag cheaper where I buy it) if you are adding your own oil. 

I switched from conditioning cubes to ready mash extra to see if it would improve weight gain (just switched back to use up some stock) it's a complete feed so didn't need to feed balancers with it which was cheaper than when I was feeding with them and cubes - but it's still £14 or so a bag where I buy it and a bag doesn't last much longer than a bag of cubes does so it wasn't cheaper.


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## xxcharlottexx (20 January 2013)

Do you have any local feed merchants who make their own brand? Mine does a bag of conditioning cubes at 8.50 a bag or 2 for 16.00 and when you compare nutritional info to Bailey's no4 it's pretty similar


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## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

xxcharlottexx said:



			Do you have any local feed merchants who make their own brand? Mine does a bag of conditioning cubes at 8.50 a bag or 2 for 16.00 and when you compare nutritional info to Bailey's no4 it's pretty similar
		
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Hmmm that's a good idea and a MUCH MORE Affordable price. I'm pretty sure the feed shop across the road from our yard orders everything in but I will ask. They're must be something out there similar and cheaper than £15 a bag that lasts 6days!!! X


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## AdorableAlice (20 January 2013)

xxcharlottexx said:



			Do you have any local feed merchants who make their own brand? Mine does a bag of conditioning cubes at 8.50 a bag or 2 for 16.00 and when you compare nutritional info to Bailey's no4 it's pretty similar
		
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If you have a Countrywide Farmers near you, go in and look at their own conditioning cubes.  The content matches DandH conditioning cubes and might match No 4.


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## Elf On A Shelf (20 January 2013)

The racehorse cubes have 14.5% protein. Conditioning Cubes have 14%. The only other difference is that the racehorse cubes have more vits & mins added so make it a more balanced food and thus not really requiring a balancer to go with it - sneaky Baileys!

They usually retail for £9-10 a bag.


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## Spot_the_Risk (20 January 2013)

Baileys have cheaper feeds - Hilight.  I would swop onto their Improver conditioning cubes, we sell ten of them to every one of No 4.  Fast Fibre - great stuff but weight maintenance, as is the Veteran Vitality.  RB Ready Mash extra has a good following, but we have customers who are raving about their horses condition on the RB Solution Mash.


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## AdorableAlice (20 January 2013)

EKW said:



			The racehorse cubes have 14.5% protein. Conditioning Cubes have 14%. The only other difference is that the racehorse cubes have more vits & mins added so make it a more balanced food and thus not really requiring a balancer to go with it - sneaky Baileys!

They usually retail for £9-10 a bag.
		
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Possibly just my horse, but I have found conditioning nuts or racehorse nuts do not blow my horses mind, but conditioning mix does ?


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## travelmad (20 January 2013)

Also thought about asking if you have used grass nuts? Some people swear by them when they have horses that won't put on weight with anything else? You could feed it in addition to the main feeds, regular no name brand at my feed store is about £8 a bag, thought lots of people have recommended pure feeds.

Milk pellets may also be worth looking at, though people have very strong opinions on whether you should feed them or not, they get great results for some horses, and I have heard you can feed general farm/lamb ones that are about £6 a bag - maybe check with vet on this? I do think that dried milk is a component in one of rowen Barbary feeds but can't remember if it's ready mash extra or the muscle builder.


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## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

EKW said:



			The racehorse cubes have 14.5% protein. Conditioning Cubes have 14%. The only other difference is that the racehorse cubes have more vits & mins added so make it a more balanced food and thus not really requiring a balancer to go with it - sneaky Baileys!

They usually retail for £9-10 a bag.
		
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Well thanks to you guys I think I've saved myself a few bob.

Minus the 2 bags of  fast fibre -£20pm
Switch from outshine to micronized linseed saves £10 a bag
Switching from baileys No.4  to baileys racing cubes saves £5 a bag. I buy 4bags a month.

That's £40saved a month atleast and not much of a change in diet for my old boy.  Cheers guys.

Now I've just got to hide the label of "race horse cubes" from my tb so he doesn't get any funny ideas......I've told him he's a donkey and I like it that way. Racing with his mum on board is a no no! Lol x


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## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Possibly just my horse, but I have found conditioning nuts or racehorse nuts do not blow my horses mind, but conditioning mix does ?
		
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Have you gone from the no.4 topline conditioning cubes and swapped onto the baileys racing cubes then??? X


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## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

travelmad said:



			Also thought about asking if you have used grass nuts? Some people swear by them when they have horses that won't put on weight with anything else? You could feed it in addition to the main feeds, regular no name brand at my feed store is about £8 a bag, thought lots of people have recommended pure feeds.

Milk pellets may also be worth looking at, though people have very strong opinions on whether you should feed them or not, they get great results for some horses, and I have heard you can feed general farm/lamb ones that are about £6 a bag - maybe check with vet on this? I do think that dried milk is a component in one of rowen Barbary feeds but can't remember if it's ready mash extra or the muscle builder.
		
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I did use grass nuts before but had no effect unfortunately! Boo x


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## Wimbles (20 January 2013)

I pay £6.75 for heygates conditioning cubes.  Not sure how they stack up against Baileys but my lot look ok on it!


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## Chellery1 (20 January 2013)

travelmad said:



			Baileys race horse cubes, it's the same ingredients as conditioning cubes and a lot cheaper. Nutritionist who used to work for them advised me about this and have heard other people say it too.

Also I would stop feeding outshine as it's ridiculously expensive. It's oil based so just feed a cup or 2 of oil instead. Probably cheaper to buy huge bottles of oil in supermarket and give him a cup of that instead - you would get about 6 litres for £6 (my vet has told me not to bother with linseed just use any kind of cheap vegetable oil).

Ditch alfa a oil for alfa a (about £2 a bag cheaper where I buy it) if you are adding your own oil. 

I switched from conditioning cubes to ready mash extra to see if it would improve weight gain (just switched back to use up some stock) it's a complete feed so didn't need to feed balancers with it which was cheaper than when I was feeding with them and cubes - but it's still £14 or so a bag where I buy it and a bag doesn't last much longer than a bag of cubes does so it wasn't cheaper.
		
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How did you find the ready mash extra compared to the no.4 then?? My tb would get through 2 stubs scoops of nuts in a day where as 1stubbs scoop of ready mash makes a massive ammount that I could split into atleast 3 feeds...thus lasting longer! Sooo confused right now lol


Ahhhh......wish. Had one of those types that sniffed ass and put on weight!
X


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## travelmad (20 January 2013)

Chellery1 said:



			How did you find the ready mash extra compared to the no.4 then?? My tb would get through 2 stubs scoops of nuts in a day where as 1stubbs scoop of ready mash makes a massive ammount that I could split into atleast 3 feeds...thus lasting longer! Sooo confused right now lol


Ahhhh......wish. Had one of those types that sniffed ass and put on weight!
X
		
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I too wish I had one of those, mines a nightmare to put weight on which is why I have tried EVERYTHING!

I did various feed profiles for him on feed xl website, not sure if Im allowed mention it here? It cost me about £6 to join - it analyses the nutrition profiles of your horse (depending on weight, breed, level of work, good or poor doer) and what their needs are, and had to change all my feed initially as what I was feeding wasn't enough. It also helped me work out how much everything was costing depending on bag size/ supplements/ daily cost/ and costs if I substituted with similar brand that had same nutrition profile. Then I did some more research and I basically went from him getting 1 scoop alfa a, 1 scoop cubes, 250g balancer, 300g soy flakes and his supplement x2 a day to 1 scoop alfa a, 1 scoop ready mash (before soaking),500g soy flakes and supplements. (though I have variously experimented with outshine, barley rings etc).

What I found doing the feed profile is the amout of ready mash I needed to feed (a scoop of cubes is 1.8kg, vs mash dry weight a scoop is 1.15kg) so you are not swapping like for like, make sure you are giving him nutritionally like for like, not just what looks like the same amount.


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## Kallibear (20 January 2013)

Sugarbeet, if it doesn't send him crazy, is a very cheap and very effective weight gain feed.

There's a couple of cheaper brands of plain alfalfa. See what your feed store has. If you need to feed chaff to pad it out, it's much cheaper. Add your own oil.

My feed store does it's own brand conditioning cubes. Much cheaper!

If you want to feed a horse ball, get barley rings (high energy and also a fabulous size) and put a good handful or two of chaff into the ball. Slows it's release considerably. Barley rings are cheap and should last you a good 3 or 4 weeks if your not generous.


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## Maesfen (20 January 2013)

Go onto straights  it will work out much cheaper.
I'd go with oats, sugar beet and micronised linseed with brewers yeast which is a digestion aid so that he gets the most from his diet plus ad lib hay/haylage.
Oats £8 25kg bag (last nearly a month
SB £7 (probably last a month
ML and BY from Charnwood Milling http://www.charnwoodmilling.co.uk/mail-order/Horse_Food.html which will cost approx £70 for both but will last you nearly a year so £6 a month.
Shame he doesn't like the soaked grass pellets (Graze On are the best I've found) as they are usually great weight producers and would save on needing any chaff at all.

Echo the barley rings too although I would soak them and add to the meal.


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## wench (21 January 2013)

When I had a skinny horse, she did just as well on cheapo pony nuts as Baileys No 4.

Dont get the high fibre ones though - tried these and she lost weight on them


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## aimsymc (21 January 2013)

Hi, I found with my skinny minny that feeding Bailey's no 1 along with no 4 worked wonders! And it doesn't send them loopy. I'd also recommend ditching the outshine overpriced and overrated imo.


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## Chellery1 (21 January 2013)

aimsymc said:



			Hi, I found with my skinny minny that feeding Bailey's no 1 along with no 4 worked wonders! And it doesn't send them loopy. I'd also recommend ditching the outshine overpriced and overrated imo.
		
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Well I've got a bag to use up and then I'll switch the outshine to micronised linseed. I'm going to check out the price of baileys racing nuts as they are the same thing as no.4 ..except more vitamins and 0.5. % more protein....baileys are sneaky ******s! The racing nuts are quite a few quid cheaper too!!! Someone told me this on here and I checked it out.......


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## Archiepoo (21 January 2013)

i tried no 4 and didnt rate it with my boy i was going through 2 bags a week! changed to spillers HDF layoff cubes and at £10 a bag its a bit cheaper and only 1 bag a week! they are conditioning and give loads of stamina but not fizzy .ive been very pleased with them.


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## Shadow the Reindeer (21 January 2013)

This site seems to give you a guide price for pretty much all feeds 
http://www.efeed.co.uk/search-results.aspx?searchtext=spillers&searchmode=anyword
Currently on the Spiller section hence where it opens, but Bailey's No4 isn't on the site for some reason


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## Maesfen (21 January 2013)

You could also look at stud cubes, they are very good for weight too.


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## Pearlsasinger (21 January 2013)

Our 30 yr old who is hard to keep condition on does exceptionally well on Speedibeet, soaked grassnuts, grass chaff, linseed oil and a dollop of molasses with ad-lib haylage.  She is pretty cheap to keep, although she eats plenty.


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