# Being sued over hunt incident?



## stencilface (8 March 2016)

Oooh, I've never posted in here before!  Query for a friend.

She hunts occassionally, on a now retired eventer who's 14.  Recently she was out and could hear a horse thundering up behind her in a wide open space, but the rider was coming in close to her horse, very close for no good reason.  Friend sensed her horse was not happy about this, although he's never kicked or anything before, you know when your own horse isn't happy.  Anyway, just as she was turning round to request the lady back off and give her more space, her horse kicked and hit the rider, breaking their leg.  Reading this now, I think why didn't my friend move her horse out of the way, but then, why would someone deliberately ride up someone elses backside, there's no telling that if my friend moved over the rider still wouldn't have followed her. Now my friend stayed with her, with others and was told to ride on etc, but didn't (from what I understand that would be quite a common occurrence) friend took the horse back to the wagon etc.

Now the rider is threatening to sue, I would guess because her horse wasn't wearing a red ribbon, as I can't think of any other reason. Now, the horse has evented up to advanced, so has been in plenty of crowded warm ups etc and has never kicked or anything like that before, hence the lack of ribbon.  I guess I'm asking if you know of anything like this happening before?

She is taking advice from BE as a member, but I thought I would ask on here if anyone else has had a similar experience.


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## popsdosh (8 March 2016)

Yes a friend was sued for a similar thing out hunting and they had a red ribbon on . They had to pay a substantial claim and in the eyes of the courts all the red ribbon did was actually prove that my friend knew the horse may kick so was more culpable. The really sad part about it was the two parties were friends.


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## AdorableAlice (8 March 2016)

Animals are unpredictable and we all ride at our own risk.  She isn't the first to be kicked and injured out hunting and won't be the last.  I don't think she has a leg to stand on, forgive the pun.  Stupid woman obviously could not hold her horse and rammed another on up the backside.  No doubt some ambulance chaser has promised her a few million compensation.


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## Lanky Loll (8 March 2016)

Cooo maybe I should have a claim - was cantering alongside but slightly behind a friend across the first field at a meet when her horse kicked out and caught me square on the ankle chipping the bone.  Never even crossed my mind to blame her as just one of those things!  Her horse had never kicked out before and to my knowledge never did again.  Got to love the current culture


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## AdorableAlice (8 March 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Yes a friend was sued for a similar thing out hunting and they had a red ribbon on . They had to pay a substantial claim and in the eyes of the courts all the red ribbon did was actually prove that my friend knew the horse may kick so was more culpable. The really sad part about it was the two parties were friends.
		
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Very good reason not to put green or red ribbons on a horse then.


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## stencilface (8 March 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Yes a friend was sued for a similar thing out hunting and they had a red ribbon on . They had to pay a substantial claim and in the eyes of the courts all the red ribbon did was actually prove that my friend knew the horse may kick so was more culpable. The really sad part about it was the two parties were friends.
		
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Ah, ok, so actually having a red ribbon is almost admission of it, so my friend may be better off in that instance. Although, seriously, thats the point of a red ribbon in the first place isn't it?  Some people are so dumb, sad for your friend, and that another friend let something as accidental ruin (I presume) a friendship.



AdorableAlice said:



			Animals are unpredictable and we all ride at our own risk.  She isn't the first to be kicked and injured out hunting and won't be the last.  I don't think she has a leg to stand on, forgive the pun.  Stupid woman obviously could not hold her horse and rammed another on up the backside.  No doubt some ambulance chaser has promised her a few million compensation.
		
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Probably, I think she is also full of self entitlement (well it sounds like that, I've never met her!)  I know a broken leg is not exactly ideal, but in that situation, I don't know how anyone dare sue for it.

I would guess my friend has PI insurance, but other than that isn't really in a position to be paying out for something that IMHO isn't her fault in the slightest.


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## AdorableAlice (8 March 2016)

Lanky Loll said:



			Cooo maybe I should have a claim - was cantering alongside but slightly behind a friend across the first field at a meet when her horse kicked out and caught me square on the ankle chipping the bone.  Never even crossed my mind to blame her as just one of those things!  Her horse had never kicked out before and to my knowledge never did again.  Got to love the current culture 

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It is a frightening culture isn't it. We live in an ever more litigious society, maybe we should ride wooden horses, but wait we might get a splinter in the arse.  Makes me spit feathers, no doubt the lady with the broken leg will have delayed whiplash too, that will another few quid, which it should be remembered, we all pay for through ever increasing insurance premiums.

Time for me to go and feed, lets hope I don't  get trodden on, farted on or bitten, I might just have to sue.


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## Damnation (8 March 2016)

AdorableAlice said:



			Time for me to go and feed, lets hope I don't  get trodden on, farted on or bitten, I might just have to sue.
		
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*Snorts tea everywhere!*


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## Orangehorse (8 March 2016)

It is just a lottery as to which judge you get with these cases, re the Red Ribbon.  Our NFU Secretary's husband is a QC and she said the NFU have successfully defended cases like this, as the red ribbon is to show that other riders should be aware, and not that it is an admision of liability.


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## JillA (8 March 2016)

So where is the negligence? Because that is what litigation is all about. If your friend wasn't negligent, she should be able to successfully defend but that will cost money. I suspect it is all bluff on the part of the lady who over rode her horse - best response? See you in court then, I have nothing to fear.


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## Goldenstar (8 March 2016)

There's been several successful claims in kicked out hunting cases .
Your friend needs to hand it over to her insurer .
It's my experience that ex event horses often tend to kick out hunting .
They often have not learnt the job slowly at a young age.


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## popsdosh (8 March 2016)

Orangehorse said:



			It is just a lottery as to which judge you get with these cases, re the Red Ribbon.  Our NFU Secretary's husband is a QC and she said the NFU have successfully defended cases like this, as the red ribbon is to show that other riders should be aware, and not that it is an admision of liability.
		
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Funnily enough my friend was insured with NFU


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## stencilface (8 March 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			There's been several successful claims in kicked out hunting cases .
Your friend needs to hand it over to her insurer .
It's my experience that ex event horses often tend to kick out hunting .
They often have not learnt the job slowly at a young age.
		
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He's been hunted throughout his career really, and is well socialised. He can be a grump over feed, but no food was involved on the hunting field. No horses should be expected to cope with being rammed and crowded from behind surely, unless a hunt staffs horses or a racehorse?


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## popsdosh (8 March 2016)

JillA said:



			So where is the negligence? Because that is what litigation is all about. If your friend wasn't negligent, she should be able to successfully defend but that will cost money. I suspect it is all bluff on the part of the lady who over rode her horse - best response? See you in court then, I have nothing to fear.
		
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The negligence in the view of the judge was taking a horse hunting who you expected may kick. The argument was successfully put forward that anybody with a horse that may kick has the responsibility to make sure it is not in a position were it could do damage to others. This view may seem reasonable to anybody outside horses.


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## Goldenstar (8 March 2016)

stencilface said:



			He's been hunted throughout his career really, and is well socialised. He can be a grump over feed, but no food was involved on the hunting field. No horses should be expected to cope with being rammed and crowded from behind surely, unless a hunt staffs horses or a racehorse?
		
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Hunt staffs horses are least likely to be rammed from behind because they oout in front or bringing up hounds .
Racehorses are the most likely IME to kick.
If a miracle more people don't get kicked the amount of people who use other peoples horses bums to stop their horses.it makes me really grumpy .


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## Orca (8 March 2016)

If a car driver goes into the back of the car in front, they are at fault. If a rider goes into the horse in front, they should also be seen as at fault. 

A loose horse appeared from nowhere and ran into the back of my mare recently. She didn't react at all but I span her hind end away just in case, until the loose horse was caught. The loose horses owner was very apologetic and said, had he got kicked, it would have been neither mine or my mares fault. 

I'd say anyone with an ounce of sense wouldn't barrel into the rear of an unknown horse and expect to get away with it. It's dangerous, it's bad etiquette and if anyone is culpable, for what ensued, it was that rider, not the rider of the horse who ultimately kicked.


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## AdorableAlice (8 March 2016)

I haven't hunted since 2004 and prior to that did 20 seasons.  During that time I had many an 'incident', young horse kicked and killed a hound, old hunter who did know better ran down a fence and wiped the master out before dumping me, horse fall that brought two more down and I have been kicked on more than one occasion.

It was all part of choosing to partake in a dangerous hobby and everyone accepted that fact.  Today every other advert on TV is for a claim company and it seems anything and everything has a compensation price, the whole industry needs an overhaul and fraud is rife.

If you cannot accept an unfortunate accident stay away from horses, they are dangerous at both ends and uncomfortable in the middle.


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## oldie48 (8 March 2016)

My OH had a call today about the "accident" he'd recently had, he told them he'd clearly had a head injury as it had affected him memory and he couldn't recall the accident at all! they rang off.



AdorableAlice said:



			I haven't hunted since 2004 and prior to that did 20 seasons.  During that time I had many an 'incident', young horse kicked and killed a hound, old hunter who did know better ran down a fence and wiped the master out before dumping me, horse fall that brought two more down and I have been kicked on more than one occasion.

It was all part of choosing to partake in a dangerous hobby and everyone accepted that fact.  Today every other advert on TV is for a claim company and it seems anything and everything has a compensation price, the whole industry needs an overhaul and fraud is rife.

If you cannot accept an unfortunate accident stay away from horses, they are dangerous at both ends and uncomfortable in the middle.
		
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## AdorableAlice (8 March 2016)

oldie48 said:



			My OH had a call today about the "accident" he'd recently had, he told them he'd clearly had a head injury as it had affected him memory and he couldn't recall the accident at all! they rang off.
		
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I know that feeling, endless calls after my car was flattened by a lorry years ago.  It was parked at the end of a cul de sac and I was lay on the sofa watching the racing.  My neighbour saw the lorry try to turn and hit the car.  Lorry cleared off and my insurers could not get a settlement so it cost me dearly.  I started getting calls that still happen now some 6 years on, one of the scumbag companies suggested I was in the car as I could get more due to my injuries.


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## Goldenstar (8 March 2016)

Me too , at one point I had them ringing me when I had coming together with another car and I broke my leg trying a horse and the phone was red hot for six months .


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## HashRouge (8 March 2016)

This is slightly different as no-one was threatening to sue, but when I was 14 my horse broke the YO's leg (I know ) and she tried, unsuccessfully, to claim against our insurance. A very nice man from the NFU came out to talk to me and, once he knew the circumstances, said that there was zero chance of them paying out because she (the YO) was responsible, not me. My horse is a known kicker and we were hacking together down a single track road (wide enough for large agricultural vehicles) when her horse refused to go past a puddle. It really wouldn't go so I asked if I should go past (she was in front) and she said yes. I kept my horse well over to the other side of the road as I went past, but unfortunately her mare then swung it's bum sideways (quite dramatically) into my mare, who lashed out. I think the reason she was deemed liable is because a) I was 14 and so she was the responsible adult, b) she had told me to pass, c) she knew my mare was a kicker, and d) the incident came about because she couldn't control her horse (i.e. mine only kicked because hers swung sideways). Luckily for us there was no question of suing - I think she wanted to claim on our Public Liability insurance because she didn't have any personal injury insurance. She didn't hold me responsible as she was a practical horse person and knew that accidents happen, and also that I had been riding this horse (always kept on her yard) for three years with no incidents at that point, so was obviously adept at managing her. We are still friends 

I don't know if that is any help though, my legal knowledge is very different so I'm not quite sure what happens when someone tries to sue!


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## Kat (8 March 2016)

My advice as a lawyer would be to pass it on to your insurers and not take it personally. It is what you pay your premium for. 

For those being hounded by claims management companies. Take their details and report them to the ombudsman -they are a bloody menace giving us a bad name!


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## Maesfen (9 March 2016)

Her insurers need to stress the fact it wouldn't have happened if the woman had been in control of her own horse.  The accident was virtually self inflicted with only one person to blame and that wasn't the horse that kicked.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (9 March 2016)

Seems to me clear-cut. The rider coming up fast and obviously out of control from behind this horse was to blame; she obviously hadn't got either any control, common-sense or manners - or a combination of all three - and IMHO her own stoopid fault she got kicked. What else did she expect FFS?


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## Roasted Chestnuts (9 March 2016)

I got my shin broken years ago when a horse ran backwards into my horse then kicked out as it wasn't liking being confined with so many horses on either side of it. 

Didn't even think of taking it further as it was just one of those things that happened.

I rode a mare that kicked and all I did was take her off to oneside with my friend or to the back of the ride. People still shoved their horses up her ass despite me shouting to back off and she leathered quite a few peoples horses despite this.  Just goes to show that you can try and keep yourself out of the way and make sure you aren't being a danger and people will still use your horses butt as brakes 

Op I don't think she really has a claim if she ran into your friend. This sue culture these days is getting worse and until the judges realise that riding is a choice hobby and knowing the risks is part of it then these stupid claims will continue to get attention.


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## Alec Swan (9 March 2016)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Seems to me clear-cut. The rider coming up fast and obviously out of control from behind this horse was to blame; she obviously hadn't got either any control, common-sense or manners - or a combination of all three - and IMHO her own stoopid fault she got kicked. What else did she expect FFS?
		
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Before the 'claim' culture crept in,  say 40(?) odd years ago,  we took responsibility for our own actions,  and had the injured party not placed themselves in the path of danger,  then they wouldn't have ended up injured,  would they?  

Do I have a case?  Can I make a claim?  Am I on an earner?  As you say Jods,  FFS! 

Alec.


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## madlady (9 March 2016)

This is just ridiculous - the person who got kicked is quite clearly at fault!

What would this person have done if her horse had refused a fence resulting in her falling off and breaking a leg - sued the horse?

Dear me she obviously shouldn't be on the hunting field if she can't accept some risk.


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## D66 (9 March 2016)

If this took place in a wide open space I'd suggest the woman was looking for a 'soft landing" by aiming for, and bumping into your horse.  If she had been thrown at speed into a hedge, ditch or solid object she could easily have been killed.


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## skint1 (9 March 2016)

This reminds me of an incident that happened to my TB gelding's share rider a couple of years ago. She was riding him out with her friend (also a fellow livery) when my gelding kicked out and damaged the friend's riding boot.  Thankfully it wasn't worse. My poor share rider ended up buying her a new pair of boots, and they were not cheap,  mostly to preserve the friendship I guess. 

I feel that my gelding was not at fault and it kind of peeved me that he was blamed. This actually  wasn't the first time one of my horses had booted this particular rider in the leg whilst on a hack. Not saying my horses are perfect but they've never done it to anyone else before or after. 

I personally believe this rider probably rides like a selfish twit,  seen some evidence to support this view with my own eyes, but in this blame culture we live in personal responsibility appears to be in short supply.


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## smja (9 March 2016)

As long as your friend didn't slow down unexpectedly (i.e. other rider ran up horse's bum unnecessarily), then I shouldn't think she has any claim.

I have used other people's horses to stop before, but never without their full knowledge and permission!


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## Lizzie66 (10 March 2016)

popsdosh said:



			The negligence in the view of the judge was taking a horse hunting who you expected may kick. The argument was successfully put forward that anybody with a horse that may kick has the responsibility to make sure it is not in a position were it could do damage to others. This view may seem reasonable to anybody outside horses.
		
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The circumstances in your friends case may well be different. 

In this instance the 3rd party ran into the other person either deliberately or because they lacked control. The space was apparently more than sufficient for the 3rd party to have avoided the other horse altogether so therefore the responsibility is with the person who got kicked to have control of their horse.

To me red ribbons should be in horses that may kick out unprovoked at things passing, not in horses that may kick if someone rams into them. At the end of the day any horse may kick out if they feel sufficiently threatened and a strange horse ramming it from behind is pretty threatening.


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## stencilface (10 March 2016)

Thankyou for all your replies, you have made us feel a bit better!  She has also not heard anything yet from the solicitors or anything so fingers crossed someone has made her see sense.

All of your responses make perfect sense, the mind boggles at people doesn't it who think its acceptable to ram another horse, then moan because you got kicked.


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## EQUIDAE (10 March 2016)

Looking at it from a different point of view - if you are riding your horse and a car passes too close and the horse kicks it you are not legally liable as it is an unforseen accident. The same could be extended to another horse.


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## Mike007 (17 March 2016)

Kat said:



			My advice as a lawyer would be to pass it on to your insurers and not take it personally. It is what you pay your premium for. 

For those being hounded by claims management companies. Take their details and report them to the ombudsman -they are a bloody menace giving us a bad name!
		
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Sigh, we both know that whilst you are right ,nobody here is listening.


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## Luci07 (27 March 2016)

I had a revolting livery try to sue me for the same thing. What an utter cow. She rammed into me when I was in front and my horse kicked out. He didn't break anything but did wound her. I was highly apologetic and my horse was known to lash out sometimes. She tried to sue. I was all for letting my insurance sort it out till Petplan showed the garbage she had written about me. I had visits from Petplan going through my statement (well over an hour) and turning up unannounced the second time. The investigator even went to my yard to take statements from the YO. This girl became a joke with her limping when she though she was being watched and then ok when she thought no one was looking. She also had a history of being litigious as had sued her previous employer as well. Because she had written so many lies in her statement, I really dug deep and asked around to give Petplan ammunition back. This included references from various hunt pro's that she was out of control and deemed dangerous when out hunting and a reference to the level I had ridden at. She didn't win.


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## Stark Dismay (6 April 2016)

I read this thread recently, and held my tongue because my thoughts clearly go against the grain of popular thought here. In my opinion there is little to no excuse for any horse that kicks out, and if a horse IS known to kick it should be wearing a red ribbon, and even if it has never kicked before but the rider senses it is in a situation that may cause it to kick out it should be held well away from other horses or removed from the field altogether. Even if it is, in their eyes, being provoked by another rider riding up behind. 

A month ago, in the space of a week, I witnessed an adult friend and the child of a friend being kicked while mounted out hunting by different horses on different days. The adult was riding beside me on a midweek day, and we were both very well aware of a point to pointer that had been running backward at speed and cow-kicking out at anything and everything all day. We had managed to avoid it for 3 hours of very poor behaviour but while sitting still in a gateway, well away from it, it suddenly managed to produce an astonishing turn of backward speed and extraordinary reach to kick her in the shin. She was unhurt, by some miracle.

The child, was not so lucky. Just a couple of days after the incident above, we were at a large joint meet of our hunt and a neighbouring hunt. Another neighbouring hunt had enjoyed their invite to this venue so much the previous year that quite a lot of them turned up too. Unfortunately, on this occasion a child was kicked by a broncing horse through no fault of his own - he had proven himself through the season to be a regular and competent rider and was in the wrong place at the wrong time, in proximity to a poorly behaved horse that was not being held back by it's rider. I saw everything, as I had decided this particular meet was such a scrum that I would hold very well back with my child, so I happened to be on a bank looking down on the accident as it happened.

I am not sure whether this year has been unusually unlucky, as I have never witnessed another rider being kicked before, or whether poorer behaviour by horses has become more frequent on the hunting field. Whichever of these has occurred I still believe the onus is on the rider to ensure that their horse does not kick another horse or person. I mentioned at the start of my post that I had held my tongue over the subject, but in light of the recent tragic death of a child I wish I had spoken up sooner. I don't know why so many people are being kicked, but the sooner everyone takes responsibility for their own horses actions whether they are unusual or not the sooner we'll see an improvement in manners again. 

If your horse kicks and injures someone, or their horse, your should be insured. Suck it up, hand over your insurer's details, take your horse home, and work on it's behaviour. Don't blame whoever you kicked - it may well have been that they were struggling to control their horse but it may also have been the first time for that too - your horse has never kicked, their horse has never bolted, who is more in the wrong? Don't bandy blame around, just do the decent thing and ensure it never happens again. No one wants to be kicked. Everyone has a responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen if at all possible.


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## Goldenstar (6 April 2016)

No horse can be guaranteed not to kick when some one out of control gallops into the back of you.
I hate hate when people use the horse you have trained so carefully as a buffer to stop.


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## stencilface (6 April 2016)

I'm sorry, but the post above is utter rubbish in this case. The horse doesn't kick. (not your post GS - you got in before me!)

An update, my friend has received a letter which is basically all untrue and tried to insinuate my friend was out of control etc etc (there's no way that would be true!) and that she's inexperienced (again, way off the mark!). There is a witness to the incident, and the person who was kicked has had previous warnings about getting too close. The insurance companies are handling it, and I expect my friend may have to accept some of the liability as thats how it goes, but its just very frustrating. This is more in my mind now, especially in light of the tragic incident at the weekend.


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## ycbm (6 April 2016)

Stark Dismay, I don't think your examples bear any relation to the situation where an out of control rider is kicked because they canon into the backside of a well controlled horse.  Both the horses in your examples should have been sent home if they weren't voluntarily taken home. The misbehaving horse in your examples caused the damage to a totally innocent third party. In this case, the damage was caused to the rider of the misbehaving horse which provoked the kick.

Can you clarify please - do you believe that no horse, however much it has been frightened or provoked by another, should ever kick?


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## paddi22 (6 April 2016)

stark dismay - in that case every horse would have a red ribbon. Even the quietest horse can kick out if someone runs into the back of it at speed. The situations you mentioned bear no relation to the original post?


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## stencilface (6 April 2016)

paddi22 said:



			stark dismay - in that case every horse would have a red ribbon. Even the quietest horse can kick out if someone runs into the back of it at speed. The situations you mentioned bear no relation to the original post?
		
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Perhaps they're a rocking horse jockey?


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## paddi22 (6 April 2016)

stencilface said:



			Perhaps they're a rocking horse jockey?
		
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those dangerous rocking horses need their own ribbons to show how dangerous are.. they've a filthy buck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6MbULtF1Pg


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## honetpot (6 April 2016)

Stark Dismay said:



			I read this thread recently, and held my tongue because my thoughts clearly go against the grain of popular thought here. In my opinion there is little to no excuse for any horse that kicks out, and if a horse IS known to kick it should be wearing a red ribbon, and even if it has never kicked before but the rider senses it is in a situation that may cause it to kick out it should be held well away from other horses or removed from the field altogether. Even if it is, in their eyes, being provoked by another rider riding up behind. 

A month ago, in the space of a week, I witnessed an adult friend and the child of a friend being kicked while mounted out hunting by different horses on different days. The adult was riding beside me on a midweek day, and we were both very well aware of a point to pointer that had been running backward at speed and cow-kicking out at anything and everything all day. We had managed to avoid it for 3 hours of very poor behaviour but while sitting still in a gateway, well away from it, it suddenly managed to produce an astonishing turn of backward speed and extraordinary reach to kick her in the shin. She was unhurt, by some miracle.

The child, was not so lucky. Just a couple of days after the incident above, we were at a large joint meet of our hunt and a neighbouring hunt. Another neighbouring hunt had enjoyed their invite to this venue so much the previous year that quite a lot of them turned up too. Unfortunately, on this occasion a child was kicked by a broncing horse through no fault of his own - he had proven himself through the season to be a regular and competent rider and was in the wrong place at the wrong time, in proximity to a poorly behaved horse that was not being held back by it's rider. I saw everything, as I had decided this particular meet was such a scrum that I would hold very well back with my child, so I happened to be on a bank looking down on the accident as it happened.

I am not sure whether this year has been unusually unlucky, as I have never witnessed another rider being kicked before, or whether poorer behaviour by horses has become more frequent on the hunting field. Whichever of these has occurred I still believe the onus is on the rider to ensure that their horse does not kick another horse or person. I mentioned at the start of my post that I had held my tongue over the subject, but in light of the recent tragic death of a child I wish I had spoken up sooner. I don't know why so many people are being kicked, but the sooner everyone takes responsibility for their own horses actions whether they are unusual or not the sooner we'll see an improvement in manners again. 

If your horse kicks and injures someone, or their horse, your should be insured. Suck it up, hand over your insurer's details, take your horse home, and work on it's behaviour. Don't blame whoever you kicked - it may well have been that they were struggling to control their horse but it may also have been the first time for that too - your horse has never kicked, their horse has never bolted, who is more in the wrong? Don't bandy blame around, just do the decent thing and ensure it never happens again. No one wants to be kicked. Everyone has a responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen if at all possible.
		
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Unless I am mistaken you have to take pointers out with a hunt so many times to have their qualification card signed so they can race. This leaves them in a dilemma as most are not the normal sort of hunter, they try and keep out of the way but I think if you have any sense you give them a very wide berth. 
  When I and my daughters hunted you very rarely saw a naughty horse or pony, usually because they have learned the job cubbing or if they did not settle most did not get taken again, now you have people joining a hunt because they are following a trail and perhaps do not realise what it takes to makes a good hunter.
  Hunting is a high risk sport so the first thing you have to learn is to spot potential trouble and keep away from the horse in fronts backend. The fact that more do not get kicked I think is amazing and a horses natural reaction is to kick when it feels threatened so as far as I am concerned if you get up close that the risk you take.


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## frostyfingers (7 April 2016)

There is responsibility on both sides here - absolutely if your horse is a known kicker you either don't take it out until the problem is sorted or you make damn sure that you keep out of everyone's way.  Too many people assume that putting a red ribbon on absolves them of everything.  However, it is also your responsibility not to cannon into other people's backends or generally invade their horses space and make a fuss if you get kicked.

I took my horse out hunting having been told he didn't kick, but not having hunted him myself put a tape on his tail, hung around at the edges and back and let people know that I didn't think he'd kick, but since it was our first time out together I wasn't 100% sure.  I did everything I could and yet as we were in a narrow grass lane someone came galloping up behind and the next thing I knew he'd barged into me and my horse kicked out, it fortunately only got his horse on the chest.  I apologised profusely, took my horse to one side and reprimanded him (even though in my heart I knew it wasn't his fault) and checked the other horse was ok - the rider's response, "sorry, it was the only way I could stop" and he then spent the whole of the rest of the day saying "mind that horse it kicks".  I sucked it up but was livid and eventually someone else said "oh come on if you hadn't gone into it you wouldn't have been kicked" which was kind of them but didn't make a difference.  It really pissed me off, so much so that I hunted elsewhere for the rest of the season.  It was the only time my horse ever kicked anyone in the remaining 3 seasons that I hunted him.  

If I ended up barging into someone and got kicked I would consider it my fault.


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