# Difference between Crabbet and other Arabians?



## LauraBR (20 June 2009)

I have been absolutely desperate to paint a really detailed Arab portrait for absolutely ages so plan a trip to the Northern Arab Show tomorrow to hopefully get lots of photos to work from finally!

So, at the risk of sounding a completely ignorant idiot...

Whilst I have always admired the breed, I don't know anything at all about bloodlines really! I noticed in the thread below about the Arab foal there was mention of the Crabbet Arab, and their type being different- and on looking at the show schedule for tomorrow it would seem the Crabbets have classes seperate to the rest? Have googled and read a bit about the Crabbet Stud over here etc but I'm not any the wiser...  so it's probably a really stupid question 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 but can anyone humour me and explain the difference? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Are there seperate classes simply because they are run by the breed Organisation, or is it because the two are quite different in appearance? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I'm really curious!


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## haras (20 June 2009)

I think it is just promoting the ols english breeding and bloodlines as they are becoming rarer, so it encourages people to continue breeding them.

I have a 50% crabbet mare, but not enough to enter her in the crabbet classes.


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## LauraBR (20 June 2009)

Ah, ok- thank you haras 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 So, reading between the lines on the other thread are the Crabbets more traditional and less exotic looking than some newer lines? Are they scored against a different breed standard or are the classes simply to recognise the pure breeding?


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## hellybelly6 (20 June 2009)

Crabbets were originally important and bred at the Crabbet stud and are thought of as an Old English Arab.

They tend to be lighter in build, smaller and dainty compared to the Egyptians.  The faces are slightly more dished and the mane/tail hair thinner and more silky.

I worked on a stud with both and I loved them all, but have to say I prefer the Egyptians.  They are larger and have more bone, manes and tails are thicker and they are very good doers.

There are also russian, polish and even different types of arabs within the arab breed.  They are all arabs, but they all have slightly different features.  There is a type of arab called a Shagya arab which I am passionate about.

In some ways they are like Welsh ponies with all their different sections: A, B, C etc.  That is the easiest way I can put it.


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## hellybelly6 (20 June 2009)

Sorry imported, not that they are not any less important!


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## LauraBR (20 June 2009)

I see! Thanks HPL. I got the impression the Crabbet was the less dainty so you have set me straight!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





The Shagya Arab is my favourite too- I had 'The Ultimate Horse Book' as a child which had loads and loads of horse breeds in. That book was probably the most read book of ALL my childhood books- there was a beautiful grey Shagya Arab in there which I would always pick first when my little sister and I were choosing our horses lol  
	
	
		
		
	


	








 Would love to own one one day, if only someone could either shrink me or breed me a 16.2hh version...


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## jhoward (20 June 2009)

the crabbets are not dainty. they are very stocky, with good bone, the chap in the picture is a 5 yr 93% crabbet. he had more bone than my tb x id mare. 

he mum was crabbet, and there was nothing dainty about her.


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## LauraBR (20 June 2009)

LMAO! Now I'm more confused than I was to start with! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Gorgeous horse jhoward!


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## mollymoo72 (20 June 2009)

in no way are the crabbet horses finer they definatley have more bone and make the best performance horses,their heads are not more dished then other arabs, if you go to www.heathstuduk.co.uk they have a beautiful crabbet stallion indian samber i sure this will be of gd use to you


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## jhoward (20 June 2009)

he was a pone! 14.2 hes been sold now, has gone off to a member of the gb endurance team! lucky boy he had a real crap start to life!


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## mollymoo72 (20 June 2009)

SORRY spelt his name wrong 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 you would think that i would know as i show him,his name is INDIAN SAMBA got it rite this time


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## hellybelly6 (20 June 2009)

Yes they are, they are smaller and daintier.  I worked in an arab stud with an arabian horse and showing expert.  We had both crabbets and egyptians.  The imported Egyptian stallion was called Marawan, one of my highlights was riding Marawan.

Its gotta be egyptians and shagya arabs for me.


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## jhoward (20 June 2009)

LOL i think anything that has indian in the parentage is pure crabbet.. 

or as close as pure as you can get, there doesnt seem to be many of the 100% pures about these days.


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## mollymoo72 (20 June 2009)

yes so have i and still do show crabbets we will have to disagree on this one the eygption head is a lot more dished then the crabbet,but either way i love all arabs


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## mollymoo72 (20 June 2009)

amazing his sire who needs no introduction was INDIAN BANNER the bone on him was mega to say the least and stood at 15'3hh heath stud had the privalinge of leasing him 5 yrs ago now


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## sallyellis (20 June 2009)

sorry I have to agree with Lisa on this one, I have a high percentage crabbet and he is over 15 hh at 2years old has a lot of bone and doesnt have an overly dished face as say the Egyptian or some of the other types....this is mainly why they have their own class, you will also find a lot of them in the classic head classes at Arab shows, IZT  if you go on Arabian Lines forum they may be able to tell you more as I am still learning all about breeding lines etc but there are some very knowledgeable people on there.


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## mik (20 June 2009)

I had a pure crabbat stallion he was the best event pony i ever had and he was so brave, there was nothing dainty about him, he won everything. i
I also had a crabbat x welsh d and she was amazing too, niether were dainty at all, and the stallion had more bone than my hano lad does for his size.
Dont have any piccys on the computer, sorry.


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## j1ffy (20 June 2009)

Wow, Indian Samba is stunning!!  I have no clue about Arabian breeding but he doesn't look as dainty as some you see.

Love to see the palomino stallion on there - a palomino arab (or PB will do) was my girlhood dream!  He's looks a little weak and high behind for my liking but what a gorgeous colour


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## mollymoo72 (20 June 2009)

He is mega stallion samba his first crop of foals are due next yr its very exciting 
	
	
		
		
	


	




xivier the palomino the pic does not do him any justice i think he is 3 in the pic,you are more than welcome to come and vist him he is 5 now and his foals are already multichampions in the showring


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## LauraBR (20 June 2009)

Indian Samba is indeed a beautiful stallion! Hope there are lots like him there tomorrow!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Thanks everyone 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I actually feel less stupid about asking the question given there seem to be differing opinions amongst people who know what they are talking about! Shall be interesting to see if I can spot a marked difference between the horses in the classes tomorrow.

Fingers crossed for good weather, dark and dreary here today and I would prefer to paint dry arabs rather than soaking wet ones


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## mollymoo72 (20 June 2009)

ALL the best for tomorrow im sure will will spot the crabbet


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## mollymoo72 (20 June 2009)

All the best for tomorrow im sure you will spot the crabbet!and the weather is gd, please let us know how you get on


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## Cluny (20 June 2009)

Crabbets were descended from the Bedouin tribes horses  of the desert and the line was started by Lady Anne and Wilfrid Blunt back in the 1870's when they brought back a number of very fine examples of the Arabian horse to their home at Crabbet Park in Sussex.  The beauty of the Crabbet Arab is that they are very tough, they are bred from horses that were taken into battle, who crossed vast distances across incredibly tough habitat and who were used to hunt gazelle and other animals.

Crabbet's are by their very nature, super intelligent, (and opinionated!) but they are also stockier than the Russian, or Polish horses of today and they are definitely not so dished in their profile.

I'm very lucky to have grown up with a pure bred Crabbet mare, she's still going strong (although in retirement now) at 34 and she was bred by Dennis Hulme at the Down Park Stud.  She has fab bloodlines, which were for a while very out of favour, but now are back in.

Her sire is Rayyan (Silver Vanity x Risseefa) who was bred by they doyenne of the Crabbet world - Rosemary Archer (her daughter Caroline Sussex is greatly respected in the Crabbet World)and her dam was Bright Dawn (Bright Shadow x Dancing Diamond) .

If you click on her pedigree (it goes back to the desert bred Arabs) you can see good examples of the breed and it'll give you a good idea of how the Crabbet breed evolved.  

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/yellow+bird7

Hope you had a fab day!


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## JavaJaneW (20 June 2009)

Harmony is Crabbet lines, the stud has predominately Crabbets







They are not as dished as the Egyptians but still very Araby looking 
	
	
		
		
	


	





That's about as much as I know lol..


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## Enfys (20 June 2009)

http://www.crabbet.com/

There is a link to a gallery there.

Enjoy your day.


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## Red_Arrow (20 June 2009)

It's lovely to see something mentioned on here about the Crabbet Arabs, although I must admit that I didn't recognise the description of them being slight and having a dished face as I always thought of them as being a more stocky form of the breed.  I have a pure Crabbet, who I absolutely adore! He has his "arab" moments for example a dislike of jumping coloured poles - which obviously become more scary if you jump them from the opposite direction! or the fact that he will spook at something as he's half way past it - but I can't fault him when it comes to hunting or XC as he suddenly becomes a flying machine!  I don't very often post on here so not quite sure what I'm doing, but will try to attach a photo.


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## Seahorse (20 June 2009)

Crabbets are much more workmanlike and less 'araby' looking than most of the other types.
Axel's sire Saker was 100% Crabbet as was Kasadi that stood at Harwoods Arabian Stud also.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/saker3

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/kasadi


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## zizz (20 June 2009)

Crabbet have thier own classes specifically because they are less dainty and typey than other strains and therefore often lose marks for type in normal arab classes. I posted this 
pic of my purebred crabbet mare ages ago and a few people mistook her for a cob type


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## mollymoo72 (20 June 2009)

was'nt kasadi an amazing stallion my partbred palomino mare has his bloodlines 
	
	
		
		
	


	




she is the one in my sig pic


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## jhoward (20 June 2009)

the picture i posted, that lad is by kasadi, out of a mare called eliza rose, breed by the harwood stud. 

very true to type, really intelligent, but very opinionated.


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## Seahorse (20 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
the picture i posted, that lad is by kasadi, out of a mare called eliza rose, breed by the harwood stud. 

very true to type, really intelligent, but very opinionated. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I have seen Eliza Rose in the pics they put on their website. They did breed some fantastic horses there. Isn't it a shame it has gone now


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## Seahorse (20 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
was'nt kasadi an amazing stallion my partbred palomino mare has his bloodlines 
	
	
		
		
	


	




she is the one in my sig pic 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Kasadi was a fantastic stallion yes 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 He bred some super foals.


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## Seahorse (20 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
the crabbets are not dainty. they are very stocky, with good bone, the chap in the picture is a 5 yr 93% crabbet. he had more bone than my tb x id mare. 

he mum was crabbet, and there was nothing dainty about her. 







[/ QUOTE ]

He looks like a Harwood horse 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 he's a very nice type.


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## jhoward (20 June 2009)

yep, if you google eliza rose you find out more about hes parents past etc.. belive it or not he went through exeter horse sales, selling for 750. poor lad really didnt get a good start. 

he had a huge head aswell, nout dainty about it, took a cob sized bridle. with a 15 inch browband!


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## jhoward (20 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the picture i posted, that lad is by kasadi, out of a mare called eliza rose, breed by the harwood stud. 

very true to type, really intelligent, but very opinionated. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I have seen Eliza Rose in the pics they put on their website. They did breed some fantastic horses there. Isn't it a shame it has gone now 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

there still about .. they are in dorset,. http://www.harwoodarabianstud.com


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## Slave2Magic (20 June 2009)

My mare is 57% Crabbet. She is quite stocky and doesn't have a dished face. Her other % is egyptian, polish.


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## LauraBR (21 June 2009)

Thanks so much everyone for all the info! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Sun is shining so can't wait to head down the A1 with my camera 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I shall let you know how I get on!


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## LauraBR (21 June 2009)

Had a nice time and could definitely see the difference between the Crabbet and other classes! Both beautiful!

Took lots of photos, have posted a few of them in the PG if anyone is interested


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## Tinypony (21 June 2009)

Glad you had fun, will go look at the photos.   
	
	
		
		
	


	




One of my Arabs is 50% Crabbet 50% Egyptian on both sides (Crystal Magician and The Shah bloodlines).  The Crabbet makes her stocky, the Egyptian makes her tall, so she is a great big 16hh Arab mare, built like a brick sh*t house.   
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Her head is elegant, but not refined.
Careful about going to Arab shows, you could get hooked!


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## Seahorse (21 June 2009)

She sounds lovely! I used to ride a beautiful mare that was by Crystal Magician, she was quite stocky but not very tall!

I'd love to see a pic of your horse x


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## LauraBR (22 June 2009)

Yes, I'd love to see a picture too Woeisme! She sounds wonderful!


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## rosie fronfelen (27 June 2009)

my arab,born in 1993,is by Aurabba,( who's sire was Ben Rabba, an american brought over in1978 and of pure Blunt extraction) is no dainty boy!! very arabby and handsome and highly intelligent, he does not have a very dished face and is of heavier build but he does have the white legs, blaze and gorgeous deep chestnut colouring.


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## Tinypony (27 June 2009)

Here you are, this is Crystal Fire (known to some I'm sure) on the day she was first backed age 4.  She got a bit bigger as she got older and is now 16hh.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




And this is Celebrity Psyche, son of Padron's Psyche who is Tobago's grandad.  This means that Celebrity is half-brother to Magnum Psyche.  !  He is only 14.3hh





This is as seahorsey as it gets for me.  I am sure his head would have looked rather extreme when he was a foal, but the shape does change as they grow up.


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## LauraBR (27 June 2009)

He sounds lovely!


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## LauraBR (27 June 2009)

Beautiful horses Woeisme!!


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## Tinypony (27 June 2009)

Thank you, I love them.   
	
	
		
		
	


	




  They both have great personalities, but very different.  Fire can be hugely challenging and was a very fiesty youngster, but she seems to know when something really matters and then she's great.  As she gets older she is becoming quite gracious.  She has always been very kind to small children, allowing them to hug her head - something she won't put up with from me!  When I backed her she was fantastic, she seemed to really enjoy her ridden work, but sadly had to retire after doing almost nothing because of bad kissing spine.  After too many vet hospital visits, she will not stable on any terms.
Celebrity is one of those horses that people call "Sweetie" as soon as they meet him.  He can get quite upset about some things, but would never do anyone any damage however worried he is.  He's very particular about his space, and likes his stable quiet and without a lot going on around it.  To ride he is a superstar, quite a little cow pony, with just the odd leap sideways to keep his rider awake.   
	
	
		
		
	


	




For any Arab people reading, do you think that there are a disproportionate number of Arabs who are a bit stressy about stables?  So many of the Arabs I know have some sort of problem about being stabled.


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