# What does nudging mean??



## Kub (6 October 2009)

My cob has started nudging me a lot in the past week. Thought it may just be an attention thing to start off with, but I'm not so sure now... I'll be stood by his stable door and he'll just nudge with his head, sometimes soft, sometimes hard. Or I'll be doing something in his stable and he'll start pushing me with his head. Is this him just being affectionate or is he being pushy and rude, not respecting personal space??  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 He's also been lifting his head with his mouth open, making me worry that he's trying to bite my head... He hasn't, but I just wonder if this is him being naughty or something more?


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## Racing_Gal (6 October 2009)

My Tazz do this when she wants a polo!  If she can smell them in my pocket she nudges me, not to hard and not in a nasty way, just gentley to let me know she knows there are mints in my pocket and they belong in her belly!


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## sea_view (6 October 2009)

Attention seeking I'd say


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## Chico Mio (6 October 2009)

I think it's rude tbh.  They are taking liberties by getting in your space in the first place. A gentle sniff is OK but nudging or butting is not on.


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## milliepops (6 October 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
My Tazz do this when she wants a polo!  If she can smell them in my pocket she nudges me, not to hard and not in a nasty way, just gentley to let me know she knows there are mints in my pocket and they belong in her belly! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine does this too.  It's a bit rude tbh but it makes me laugh


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## trendybraincell (6 October 2009)

My boy isn't one for hugs and cuddles, he'll rest his head for a hug then shrug you off, almost as if to say "Oooo mum don't!!!!" He reminds me of a teenager trying to be cool

It is a little rude if I'm honest, but its part of his charm, I have to take the hugs when I can with him!


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## jenmac_85 (7 October 2009)

T does it all the time. 

It is rude in a way but I am not perfect, therefore cant expect my horse to be lol. 

Never goes further than a reminding nudge to let me know he is there and willing to eat anything given to him lol


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## TMM (7 October 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
My cob has started nudging me a lot in the past week. Thought it may just be an attention thing to start off with, but I'm not so sure now... I'll be stood by his stable door and he'll just nudge with his head, sometimes soft, sometimes hard. Or I'll be doing something in his stable and he'll start pushing me with his head. Is this him just being affectionate or is he being pushy and rude, not respecting personal space??  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 He's also been lifting his head with his mouth open, making me worry that he's trying to bite my head... He hasn't, but I just wonder if this is him being naughty or something more? 

[/ QUOTE ]
Mine sometimes give me a slight nudge so I dont mind. I think its the horse just been affectionate and part of his bond with the owner and his character. If he ever gets to the stage where he is beginning to be to pushy and starts nudging more often and harder then I will put a stop to it, but until then I am ok with him doing it now and again.
A lot of people think its really rude but I dont think its that rude as long as the horse does not try and nudge all of the time and in an aggressive way.


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## Gentle_Warrior (7 October 2009)

rudeness and dominance - mine does it a lot - normally softly, but the odd occasion has sent me flying to the floor


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## ruscara (7 October 2009)

I honestly think that they try to communicate with us more than we appreciate, and their means of doing so are very limited.  I feel very sad when people dismiss them as being 'attention seeking' or 'pushy'.  Yes, they are seeking attention, but what is wrong with that?  They are so dependent on us for everything, and surely 'attention' is part of the care we give them.
If this behaviour in your horse is something new, then I would certainly not dismiss it as 'invading your space', or 'rude'.  I would try to find out what he is trying to tell you.  Personally, I would start with his mouth and teeth.  
*goes back to hugging her tree*

ets:  My horse started getting very arsey being saddled, and even bit me a couple of times (for which he got a smack!)  He was fine to mount and ride.
It was ages before I got the saddle checked and found out that the tree was broken and had been digging into his back.  He needed physio and is still very reluctant to be saddled.  
He had been trying to tell me that the saddle hurt, but I had ignored him and even smacked him. 
He must have been in great pain being ridden but I never knew.


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## Kub (7 October 2009)

Thanks peeps 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Well I do wonder if it's a food thing. Since I've started bringing him into the stable each evening to groom him, he's usually been getting a carrot or apple etc. and I've noticed that he now constantly thinks I have food in my hand, so instead I'm trying to put it on the side or the floor so he stops associating my hands with food. They're quite big nudges but I expect that's because he's a big boy with a big head lol, and for now, one every so often I don't mind. If he starts doing it more though, how do I get him to stop? I don't want to bop him on the nose and make him head shy, but not sure what I should do


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## ruscara (7 October 2009)

Well, you didn't say that to start with, LOL!

The answer is:  stop giving him 'treats'!   
	
	
		
		
	


	





Only feed him in his bowl, on the floor, at mealtimes.


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## Kub (7 October 2009)

It was my OH doing it, I went away for a week and to get him better at being caught and reward him for picking his feet up, he gave him a treat. Hence why I'm now trying to get him out of thinking hands = food. Plus, he's a bit stupid when it comes to me putting some food on the floor, he follows my hand thinking there's still food in it and doesn't realise it's on the floor lol.


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## A1fie (7 October 2009)

QR - Just to say ruscara I really liked your post and totally agree.  

I know that  horses are big animals and that they have to have manners and fully appreciate that a dominant and aggresive horse is an accident waiting to happen and no fun for the horse or the owner but I also think that gentle nudges are sometimes just them communicating and showing affection.

I think most people can tell when a horse is really trying it on and overstepping the mark but I don't really understand the whole zero tolerance thing with nudges.  

I want a partnership with my horse - with clear boundries and with me as leader but I would like to think that it is possible without being a totally dominant leader and never allowing my horse to come into my space or to touch me.  I'd like to think that my horse trusts me and feels comfortable enough to show me a little bit of affection.  

But also agree that my horse using me as a rubbing post and nudging me half way across the yard is not a good thing either!


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## Nicki85 (7 October 2009)

Maggie would never push or nudge she is very "that is your personal space and this is mine". 

Jess likes having her head cuddled and will nudge you very gently for a stroke or cuddle.  

I like it, as long as it doesn't get out of hand.


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## NeedNewHorse (7 October 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
QR - Just to say ruscara I really liked your post and totally agree.  

I know that  horses are big animals and that they have to have manners and fully appreciate that a dominant and aggresive horse is an accident waiting to happen and no fun for the horse or the owner but I also think that gentle nudges are sometimes just them communicating and showing affection.

I think most people can tell when a horse is really trying it on and overstepping the mark but I don't really understand the whole zero tolerance thing with nudges.  

I want a partnership with my horse - with clear boundries and with me as leader but I would like to think that it is possible without being a totally dominant leader and never allowing my horse to come into my space or to touch me.  I'd like to think that my horse trusts me and feels comfortable enough to show me a little bit of affection.  

But also agree that my horse using me as a rubbing post and nudging me half way across the yard is not a good thing either! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes good post I agree.


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## Kenzo (7 October 2009)

Dominance, give them an inch and they will eventually take a mile.

I'd nip it in the bud asap before that habit grows into something else or before they start getting rough with it, some people find it funny, I find it highly annoying.

One day they will do it in the owners face and bust a lip or knock your teeth out etc then the owner will turn round and smack them the one because that time it hurt, but the horse doesnt know any better because you have let them do get away with if for god knows how long, and thats not fair on the horse.


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## Kub (7 October 2009)

So how do I stop him doing it? I don't mind a little nudge, but he's a powerful boy and don't want it getting out of hand.


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## Kenzo (7 October 2009)

That's how the problem will develop, your saying I don't mind a little nudge, so immediately your not setting any boundaries, its ok to do it one day providing its a little one but not the next day when it hurts?

Those little nudges will turn into big ones, or rubbing against you with the bridle on (which can be painful when the bit bruises your arm) then they will nudge you off balance, then they have learnt that they can move you, then that might turn into barging or standing too close to you and treading your toes etc and so on, its all the small things that make a huge difference in having a well mannered gentle horse which also will help with other areas when training them to do things.

Of course its up to you if you find it some way a sign of affection but I horses don't work like that.

They would feel the sharp end of my elbow in there face if they started doing it to me, within a split second and remembering to be consistent with it, so they learn what reaction they get from you as soon they do it or even think about doing it.

You'll only need to do in once or twice and they will soon get the message, far better teaching them manners from the start before it becomes a habit, horses should not be able to control where you are with their heads, make them back up and stand away from you until they lean to respect your space and don't be too soft or feel bad for making them, you are being kind making them learn.  

I can't stand to see it when people let horses get away with things one day but the next day when the horse has hurt them, they start shouting and smacking them for it all the time,...when its become a habit, its only because the owners have not been straight with them in the first place and of course its the horses fault.


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## Kub (7 October 2009)

This is what I think too. He's too big to start thinking it's ok because he could really hurt someone. I just didn't know what to do to make him stop, I thought hitting him on the nose too much would make him head shy so didn't want to cause further problems.

I'll try the elbow approach. After all, I'm all for him standing nicely and me giving him a good scratch but I don't want him knocking me around just because he can.


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## Kenzo (7 October 2009)

Yes thats right, you should never strike a horse across its face with your hand as this makes them head shy, that is why the elbow technique is should be used, you don't even need to turn to them, just carry on with what ever you are doing and give them a sharp elbow in the nose/side of face...where ever it catches them when they try to nudge you basically and say loudly NO, but it has be to an immediate reaction and done sharply so it takes them by surprise, once or twice and I guarantee they will won't do it again and take the temptation out of them wanting to do it by making your horse stand away from from you, with out there faces in your face so to speak.


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## milliepops (7 October 2009)

[ QUOTE ]


Those little nudges will turn into big ones, or rubbing against you with the bridle on (which can be painful when the bit bruises your arm) then they will nudge you off balance, then they have learnt that they can move you, then that might turn into barging or standing too close to you and treading your toes etc and so on, its all the small things that make a huge difference in having a well mannered gentle horse which also will help with other areas when training them to do things.



[/ QUOTE ]

I do agree with this in principle, but it doesn't have to be that black and white.  My horse nudges me when she knows I have goodies in my pocket, also to show she's cross if I am due to turn her out but get stuck chatting, etc - it can be a subtle method of communication.  I like to know what she is thinking.

I'm a stickler for good manners in other ways though - I won't be rubbed on, barged, trodden on etc - you can be consistent about this but still allow the horse to express itself in non aggressive/invasive ways.  IMO these other behaviours are more about a lack of respect for the handler - being nudged seems to me to be more of a question/request from the horse.


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## Kub (7 October 2009)

Bit off topic but how do you make a horse stand away from you? He's good sometimes and other times he just follows. I want to reinforce that he needs to stand when told and come when I ask.


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## Kenzo (7 October 2009)

Yes I so see your point from your personal experiance and understanding with your own horse.

I was just explaining in general/worst case senairo of how little things can develop into annoying and at times painful habits, specially with youngsters or horses that are around children and its down to the owners of what they find acceptable or just showing their horses individual character etc.


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## the watcher (7 October 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Bit off topic but how do you make a horse stand away from you? He's good sometimes and other times he just follows. I want to reinforce that he needs to stand when told and come when I ask. 

[/ QUOTE ]

same as the nudging really, with nudging the elbow is good, with space invading just keep the horse at least arms' length from you at all times, and keep reinforcing that. You can enter their space (but I never do so without some kind of notice) but they cannot enter yours without an invitation - how you signal that to the horse is up to you.

Even my yearling understands that when I put my hand up he is close enough, but if i drop my hand and hold it towards him that is his signal that he can approach for a scratch


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## stencilface (7 October 2009)

My horse must think I am a total pushover 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I let him push me all over, and rub with his bridle on - I figure if its making him itchy, then I should help him relieve that - I don't encourage that and will rub his head with my hand if I'm given a chance.  My horse looks offended if I accidentally knock him in the face (eg when you bend down and stand up) so I have no intention of elbowing him in the face on purpose! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





But then, he is very polite, will mostly stand where he is left, and is very polite in his nudgings.  In the 5 years I have had him, I haven't seen this behaviour degrade into something more aggressive, nor has he ever knocked me over


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## Kub (7 October 2009)

Well he wasn't so bad tonight, though think I'd didn't let him get to the point of doing it so much and did the elbow thing when he nudged me hard. Need to teach him a bit more personal space now, let me do things without being over my shoulder. How's best to do this? Making him back up if he comes into my space and keep doing this til he stops coming forward? Or are there other tried and tested techniques?


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